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Goalhanger's Tony Pastor explores building the U.K.'s leading independent podcast production company which includes shows like The Rest is History, The Rest is Politics and The Rest is Football. Episode TranscriptPlease note, this transcript  may contain minor inconsistencies compared to the episode audio.Damian: I'm Damian Fowler and welcome to this edition of The Current Podcast. This week we sit down with Tony Pastor, the co-founder of Goalhanger, the UK's leading independent podcast production company. After a career as a TV producer, first at the BBC and then at ITV in the sports department, Tony teamed up with Gary Lineker, the former international football star turned broadcaster, to create the company. It launched its podcast hub in 2019. In just a few years, Goal Hanger has gone from strength to strength with hit podcast shows like The Rest is Football and The Rest is History, which apparently clock up 42 million downloads a month and counting. We'll get into the creative process in a minute about what makes these shows so successful. But first, I wanted to ask Tony about how Goalhanger was created.  Tony: I set up Goal Hanger with my co host Gary Lineker, who in the UK is a well known media figure and former [00:01:00] footballer back in 2014. I'd been, a producer at ITV, a big TV company in the UK, and then left to set up my own production company. We concentrated largely on making sports documentaries, and then slowly the business changed, and, by 2019, we were launching our own podcasts, and in the last couple of years, it's become the main part of our business.  Damian: You know, the podcast hub was launched, I know more recently than the actual whole production company and it's now like hosting some of the UK's most popular podcasts. I know that the company's just reported record audience figures for the May, July period this 2024. Big hit shows like the rest is football, which is co hosted by Gary Lineker. And the rest is politics and several others, you know, I'm kind of curious to how you achieved this in a world with, let's say, tens of thousands of podcasts.  Tony: Well, it's a good question. [00:02:00] And the big challenge in the world of podcasting is discoverability. It's not easy for audiences, listeners to find new content. There's an awful lot of really good podcasts out there, but unfortunately they're not easy to find. We have had a bit of luck on that front because once you build a successful podcast, you can then tell people about anything new that you do. And there's no doubt that the number one way you can make sure that people know about a new podcast is if they're already listening to a podcast because they're on the right platform there, then they're enjoying the right form of medium. Once we had the rest is history at a super successful level, it made the launch of political shows and our entertainment shows and our sports shows that bit easier . Damian: So the rest is history was the kind of vehicle was the kind of prototype as it were. Is that fair?  Tony: Well, actually we launched a podcast, that was a real niche podcast, in 2019. It's called we have ways of making you talk and [00:03:00] it's all about the history of the second world war and I did it really almost as a hobby. It was great fun. I launched it with a great historian called James Holland and a comedian called Al Murray, both of whom are real aficionados of the period. It quite quickly became a bit of a cult. No doubt lockdown during the COVID period helped in a way because it meant people were stuck at home seeking content. Podcasts are, producible remotely, we were able to really up the amount of content we produced. Suddenly it went from being very niche to some, to having quite a significant audience. And then the next iteration really was to say, we've got a successful podcaster that is, doing north of a million downloads a month, it's making some money and what would happen if we, did a podcast about more than just six years of history? In fact, let's do the whole of history. And that's how the rest is history was born and it broke out, became a super success and it really showed us that the format of intelligent people talking in an entertaining way about something they know a great deal about [00:04:00] really could work.  Damian: That's pretty ambitious. I've got to say, the idea of doing the whole of history. And I've got to say, I am an avid listener to the rest is history. Absolutely fantastic show with the two co-hosts, Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland, who've got this got this brilliant rapport. Between them, I'm wondering if you could sort of like for people who haven't heard it  just give a kind of distillation of the kind of tone and style of that podcast.  Tony: Sure, it's a history podcast. It tells narrative stories, fabulous stories from history. Be that the story of Napoleon or the French revolution or the sinking of the Titanic, the rise of the Nazis. These are all subjects that have been covered extensively in the last 12 months, for example. But what it really does is it's two, people who know an awful lot about the subject, who research it really, really well, but then have a fantastic conversation. Fairly light conversation in a very entertaining, witty, well informed way. The best way I can [00:05:00] describe the tone of voice of The Rest is History is if you could imagine being sat in a bar or a cafe and hearing two people who know each other really well and are good mates chatting about something they're fascinated by in a very entertaining way. That's The Rest is History.  Damian: And that formula also kind of carries over into the other podcasts, like for instance, the rest is football similarly, it's like, three guys having a kind of elevated, smart, funny conversation about what's just happened in the week, the week in, whether it be the Premier League or international football or what have you, is that fair?  Tony: Yes, I think that is fair. I mean, we don't, create relationships on air with our podcasters. We basically, listen in on relationships that already exist. So Gary Lineker, Micah Richards and Alan Shearer, all great soccer players in their own right. But more important than that, their mates, and you get a real strong sense of that when you listen to them talking, they love their football, they watch it endlessly, they [00:06:00] have a WhatsApp group that frankly you could publish and probably get 100,000 subscribers to, it's so entertaining, it's all about what's going on in football constantly, and they basically bring that conversational style, that very matey friendly, but intelligent and analytical style to their conversations three times a week on a Monday, they look back over the weekend's action on a Wednesday. They try and answer as many of the audience's questions as they can. And on Friday they review the midweek and look forward to the weekend. So it's an ongoing conversation, between three guys who frankly. If we weren't recording it, would be having the same conversations anyway. Damian: I love that, insight. Damian: So I want to shift a little bit to ask you about the, business perspective. And what need, as it were, did you tap in the UK market? Which, obviously has a wide variety and diversity of broadcast options because the BBC is there. So, how did you get that market?  Tony: Well, I think first of all, I would say that the BBC does a brilliant, brilliant [00:07:00] job. It's a wonderful broadcast that makes an incredible amount of diverse content, but it has to, it has to serve an awful lot of people so it can, find itself spread a little thin. One of the great attributes of podcasting as we discovered with our second world war history pod is that you can super serve a group of people who want something very specific. So the second world war pod is listened to by about 80 to 100,000 people. But it's listened to by them religiously twice a week and that means we get 1. 2 million downloads a month. That audience is not being served anywhere else. So that was our first insight. We then looked at kind of the broader history offering in traditional radio and it was all slightly stale. It had been the same for a long time when we wanted to have a slightly fresher, newer, more entertainment focused approach and, I'd like to tell you it was super planned, but in fact, it was about getting too [00:08:00] great talent to have good conversations. And, we spent nothing on marketing the entire growth of that podcast. The question I get asked most, which is really insightful in many ways, I think was it, why wasn't history taught like this at school? If it had been taught like this at school, I would never have dropped it as a subject. I've always loved history, but it was always done in such a dry way. Why couldn't it have been taught in this entertaining fashion at school? And I hope that's what we're actually providing for those for all those millions of people who love their history. We're giving them a new access point to it. Damian: Yeah, absolutely. I just listened to the five part series on Martin Luther and I remember going back to my history A level where I had, you know, hopefully she's not listening, but a pretty dull history teacher, but I learned everything about Martin Luther now, all these years later from that podcast. Absolutely brilliant with all its references.  Tony: Absolutely, so there's one other thing I'm going to say to you which is, I think the commissioning model is slightly broken. I think the traditional model whereby somebody in their [00:09:00] broadcast ivory tower decides whether or not a pitch, a content pitch, will be the right thing for their audience. I think it just doesn't work anymore. There's, it's too, we've got to a point now where commissioners are trying to satisfy too many things at once. Whereas we can just say, this is what we want to do. We don't need a commissioner. We don't need, the finances of a traditional broadcaster. We'll self fund this. We believe in it. We can experiment. We can try stuff and it's been liberating for us creatively because we can, we can decide we want to do a podcast on Martin Luther which frankly nobody would ever commission and we can do it. And lo and behold it found a terrific audience,  likewise we did, you know we did four parts on the falklands war. We did an extended season on custer. We did a long series on the nazis now the nazis will always get covered  in traditional media. But,  we were able to do, for example, this year, we took the guys to Sarajevo to talk about the start [00:10:00] of the first world war and the first shot that was fired, the assassination of our shoot, Franz ferdinand, you know, that's the kind of thing I just don't think traditional broadcasters are going to commission, but we're able to do it and find an audience with it. Damian: Yeah, I want to ask you a little bit about the revenue model from a business perspective. you know, um, a little bit, we, we keep hearing in the U S about the ad opportunity, especially in podcasts. I'm curious from your perspective, what's that opportunity like in the UK?  Tony: Well, the ad part of it is challenging. The UK is not a very big market. It is nothing like the US market. For example, the advertising slash sponsorship market in the US around podcasting is something like $4 billion a year. In the UK it's more like a hundred million. Dollars a year. It's a pretty small pizza in terms of, that needs slicing up between, all the commercial players in the UK and frankly, if the BBC enter into this market as they're [00:11:00] threatening to do, it will be even more challenging for us. We've had to be pretty creative around the commercial side of it. So yes, we're absolutely fishing in the advertising and sponsorship pond, but we're also looking at subscription models. In fact, we've got six very successful subscription clubs for our podcasts. This is where audiences, super fans who really love the pod can get access early, can get it ad free, can get bonus content, can get live show tickets early, et cetera. And that's proved very successful. We also do live shows and the live shows, do very well. You know, the rest is history last night we did it live in Cambridge, in the university center, Cambridge in front of more than a thousand people. The rest is politics is going on a nationwide tour. We're doing seven cities. We've sold 30, 000 tickets across that tour. So yes, we've had to be quite. Smart, frankly, and see disparate potential,  financial models for our podcasts so that they can really function.  Damian: Yeah, it makes [00:12:00] sense. I know,  people talk a lot about the kind of, the special relationship that, Podcast hosts have with their audience and sort of ipso facto that kind of translates a little bit into advertising and how advertising works, whether it be host read or ~whether it comes in, Tony: programmaticly Damian: programmatically. yeah. that's the word. I'm kind of curious to hear what response you've had from advertisers, in terms of what's your pitch to them?  Tony: Yeah. I mean, our pitch to them is really relatively straightforward unlike nearly all other forms of media currently we're growing, the traditional TV and radio commercial radio models are shrinking. They're struggling. It's not easy for them. The streamers, Netflix and Apple And all the usual customers are now. Causing traditional TV to have to be very inventive and work with smaller budgets. We're the opposite. We know the, the podcast market is growing. every year. Our audience is very [00:13:00] young, so we skew much younger than all of the other mediums. So, 48 percent of our listeners are under 34. So half of our audience is effectively in their teens, twenties and early thirties, which is,  attractive to commercial partners. And, we have very, very long listen times. People are fine, find the content compelling and engaging. So,  the rest of history's average listen time is 41 minutes. Now,  this is great news. I'm always very reassured by this because people have told me for a long time that young audiences want only bite sized content that they can swipe through and everything has to be a minute or less. What we might call the tick tock generation. Well, we're discovering that's not true  People in their twenties and thirties want long form, intelligent, entertaining conversations. They want, they want to hear content that entertains them, that informs them, that educates them. I'm starting to sound positively BBC wreathian, but you know, they basically They basically do want [00:14:00] long form. People are commuting, they're exercising, they're walking dogs, they're cooking. They want to have something that entertains them, that, that informs them and a lot of people we know listen to our podcasts while they're doing something else. So I think the sell to commercial partners really is that, our listeners are super engaged. They're young, they're highly educated and by and large,  we've done surveys, by the way, large scale surveys of over 20, 000 of our listeners, they earn really good salaries. They usually are executive and managerial levels in their businesses. These are the movers and shakers, the people who inform the way that,  that our nations are moving. So there are really, really interesting and valuable audience.  Damian: Yeah, it's, such a cliche now to say that young people have no attention. Clearly that's, that's not the case.  Tony: It's, it's, it's absolute nonsense. It's not true.  Damian: Yeah, it really is. And It's reassuring to hear that too. You know, in terms of the,  you mentioned it's growing. How far can it grow? What's the sort of [00:15:00] scale you can, when you think about I think the statistic I read was that 20 percent of UK listeners listen to a podcast every week. That's a lot of headroom, right? You've got left.  Tony: Oh, it's super exciting on that score. We are definitely nowhere near peak podcasting. I can tell you why, because nobody over about 55 is listening to podcasts because they, they never did. They didn't do growing up with it. The older generations, the people who are perhaps retired and who would enjoy our podcast most are just not listening. , They're perhaps didn't grow up with the technology. They're not quite as comfortable, opening an app and downloading audio content. I think that as people age with that native ability to use the technology and enjoy the content, there's a whole generation of people we will add between say 55 and 80, whatever, who will suddenly become listeners. There's probably 30 percent upside just when we start being listened to and enjoyed by an older generation, which is not happening at the moment. Damian: [00:16:00] That's a great point. Yeah, I think as people, get used to the tech, that's it. And then I don't, who knows what's coming up. You also have talked about, pushing podcasts into video as well.  And I are talking right now on zoom, but people listening are just listening to this, with their air pods or what have you, what's the benefit in a way of, pushing podcasts, onto video, is it to see those hosts sparring with each other, people are curious. Tony: This is the area that intrigues us most about what we do. The advent of video really came from the US. We started to hear Prominent podcasters talk about watching podcasts rather than listening to podcasts. And we started to ask ourselves, why are they doing that? What is the gain? Surely it's not just for the programmatic ads on YouTube or Facebook. We were determined to trial it and see what the benefits were by practice, by actually trying it out.  And what we discovered was, This was [00:17:00] an entirely different audience. So for example, during the euros, as I mentioned, 9. 7 million audio downloads and 10 million video downloads. They're not the same people with that. This was entirely additional audience. The other thing about it is, but there's a couple of things. One is that it helps with cross promotion. We can cut this content up, put a push it out on social, on Insta and Tik TOK and Twitter, et cetera. But also when it comes to having partnerships, you know, with some of the bigger brands, there's that, that hundred million dollar UK podcast market is suddenly much greater. If you're talking to brands about partnerships that include video and social, there's a whole extra set of people you're in conversation with. And so you can effectively turn a podcast back into a show, a 360 show, which. Frankly, we don't mind where people encounter. We don't mind whether you watch, you listen, you see the clips on your social media feeds. As long as you're encountering our [00:18:00] content, we're happy. And that's really why we've pushed so heavily into video. So we take the opposite position of the walled garden. We're not a walled garden. We're not going to tell you to come over to our place and enjoy our content. We're going to say, Where are you comfortable? Where do you want to be? Damian: Yeah, love that. Love that thought. Is podcast growth dependent to a certain extent on those different platforms and platform growth? You know, if people listen through Spotify or Apple, what have you?  Tony: Well, I don't know whether it's dependent on that growth. It's an interesting question. What I can say is that we're agnostic. We don't mind where you are. We have a really good relationship with Spotify who are our, ad and sponsorship sales partner. But similarly, you know, we have a great relationship with Apple too, who handle a lot of our subscription clubs. And frankly, as I say, you know if you're there on YouTube or if you're there on Apple or Spotify, that's all fine. Yes, it does require people to be digitally native and comfortable with the digital platforms, but increasingly, as I say, apart from [00:19:00] perhaps my father's generation, who I still have to download podcasts for, you know apart from his generation,  I think most people now are pretty comfortable with the media.  Damian: So one of the great advantages of podcast production is that you, have a very close relationship with your audience. Could you give me some insight into how that breaks down in terms of subscribers and people who listen for free? What are you seeing? Tony: Sure. What we're seeing is that unlike the traditional, media relationship whereby a production company like us, we're Goalhanger. We would go in to see the commissioner at the BBC or channel four or ITV or NBC and we pitched them our idea and they would either say yes or no, usually no. But if they did commission it, we'd make it for them. We'd hopefully keep doing it. 10 percent production fee, they would then put it out. They would sell the ad slots to,  commercial partners and ultimately the relationship between the production company and the final audience is really remote. So ours is [00:20:00] really close. When we put our pods out free to air,  the audience listens to them. They contact us. We incorporate their questions. We have a very good relationship, very close relationship, but not nearly as close as we do with our subscribers. We've got about 90, 000 subscribers across our various podcasts. And what they get is a direct personal relationship with us. There's no, advertising. There's no sponsorship.  They don't have to wait for a podcast. So for example,  we'll, do a, six part series on the sinking of the Titanic. You can listen to that content spread out over three weeks for free with ads, Monday, Thursday, Monday, Thursday, Monday, Thursday, or if you're a subscriber on that first Monday, you can have all six episodes immediately as a box set. That kind of a relationship is, I think, unique to podcasting where you love the content. You decide that for the Cost of an oat milk latte. You can basically get all six episodes immediately. And many of our listeners now are just saying, you know what? I want my content clean. I'd like to just come to you direct. I'll have it [00:21:00] immediately. By the way, I'd love to get prioritized for the live tickets for the show in New York. I'd like to get them ahead of the rest of the public. And so you develop this fantastic relationship with your listeners and your fans.  Damian: There seems to be a kind of recognition that staying authentic, is the way to scale. I was just, I was reading some comments by, Netflix boss Ted Sarandos at the RTS conference, Royal Television Society conference, who was saying, one of the big hits this year for them was Baby Reindeer, which is a very UK, British sensibility, but yet it's done really well. They didn't pander to a global audience. They kept it authentic. It seems like that is the same formula that's having success for you.  Tony: Well, it's really interesting this, isn't it? Because,  I've got three, I've got three, sons, two teenagers and a 20 year old, and they're watching tons of content on Netflix and, uh, and the variety of the streamers, and they're very happy watching, for example, Korean TV with subtitles. They'll watch dramas from Scandinavia with subtitles. They're very comfortable. [00:22:00] Watching authentic drama and cultural content from other nations. I don't know whether the kind of globalization of content has finally happened, the days when, if it didn't, when, if a movie didn't have a, an American star, it could never be watched around the world. I think it's gone. I think people are much more comfortable enjoying content from a variety of nations. Damian: Well, Tony, thank you so much for these insights. Great talking with you.  Tony: An absolute pleasure. Thanks very much for having me on. Damian: And that's it for this edition of The Current Podcast. We'll be back next week, so stay tuned. The current podcast theme is by Love Caliber. The current team includes Kat Vesey and Sydney Kearns. And remember, Tony: We're not a walled garden. We're not going to tell you to come over to our place and enjoy our content. We're going to say, Where are you comfortable? Where do you want to be. Damian: I'm Damian and we'll see you next time. And if you like what you hear, please subscribe and leave us a review. Also tune into our other podcast, The Current Report.

Every firm has distinct principles that guide its approach to financial planning. In this episode, we take you behind the scenes to explore the core values and unique processes that set our firm apart. We'll walk you through how we get to know our clients on a deeper level, create personalized financial strategies, and how our approach redefines what it means to have a successful financial planning experience.   Important Links: Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381   ----more---- Transcript:    Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, we're going to talk about what makes Tony's process and the team's process unique at Tax Doctor, Inc. Let's talk about that this week here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Hey, everybody, welcome in to the podcast. Thanks for hanging out with Tony and I for a few minutes, as we talk investing, finance, and retirement. On this episode, we're going to maybe walk behind the scenes just a little bit, talk some core values, things of that nature, on what Tony and his team do at Tax Doctor, Inc. I thought it would be a good idea to refresh this a little bit. I think we probably talked about this stuff once or twice before over the last couple years of doing the podcast. But it's important I think, to go back to some of the roots, if you will. Some of the basics, if you will. We're going to have a little conversation with Tony.   What's going on, my friend? How are you doing this week?   Tony: I'm doing well. Getting ready to start the week, and weather's still looking good here.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Everyone is happy.   Speaker 1: Well, we're taping this the last week of October, dropping it on Halloween. So Happy Halloween! Get your candy on.   Tony: That's right, get your costumes and candy.   Speaker 1: Do you have a favorite candy? I'm in my 50s now, Tony, but I still have a favorite candy. Do you?   Tony: Still the favorite, which I think is the number one for Halloween, and that's Reese's.   Speaker 1: Okay, all right. Yeah. That's one or two. You see it goes back and forth. Snickers, I'm a Snickers guy. I think those are usually the top two right there.   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: I don't know, black licorice.   Tony: I was just going to say ... Go ahead.   Speaker 1: I was going to say, I was going to ask you a question about black licorice. Do you eat it? Have you ever eaten it?   Tony: I have never eaten it. In fact, oh, it's bad.   Speaker 1: Right?   Tony: To me.   Speaker 1: I don't even know, why do they still make it? Does anybody like it? I don't know.   Tony: Somebody must like it.   Speaker 1: They must. But I have never met anybody, in all my travels, that likes black licorice. Hey, if you like black licorice and you're checking out the podcast, shoot us a message, let us know. I'd be really curious to find out how many people like black licorice.   Tony: I would, too.   Speaker 1: But anyway, you were going to say something?   Tony: I was going to say I just heard, it was actually on the way to work, I don't know if this accurate, but it was on Sirius XM. They were saying the estimated spending on Halloween this year is approaching $11 billion.   Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy?   Tony: Between the candy, the costumes, and all the parties. Boy, that's just a big number.   Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts? That's just nuts.   Tony: On a day that just really you go out, and beg for treats, and get scared.   Speaker 1: Well, I think with the craziness of the world all the time, sometimes we just have to hang on to some of those few traditions, and some of those things that maybe just give us a little fun, a little reprieve, a little whatever.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: I guess it could be worse. But yeah, that's some crazy ... I think Valentine's Day, too. Crazy numbers that come in on Valentine's Day.   Tony: Yes. That's another one, yeah.   Speaker 1: It's pretty wild.   But anyway, let's get into our topic this week. Tony, let's talk about your core values. What mission statement, if you will, or to go Jerry Maguire for a second here, if you were writing out a mission statement about your patient process, what is the core principles that you and your team try to exude?   Tony: Yeah. Probably the biggest one is we take the approach that you have to do all of your planning with I call it tax-centric or tax in mind. One of the biggest things that people I think lose track of, even though they're always complaining about all the taxes they pay, is taxes over your lifetime are one of the biggest expenses you'll ever pay. You want to make sure, in your planning process, that you're taking all that into account. I think that some advisors don't do that. Obviously, some of them don't have tax backgrounds, which is why they don't do that. I think that you need to use that in there with your process because that is going to make a big difference on that end goal and number.   When we're working through our plans, we always are trying to keep that in mind. Every time we meet with clients to go over their plans, we're discussing that as well. I think if you don't get anything out of this podcast, make sure that you are doing that in your own situation, because that is real key for us.   Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's an interesting point because not to say that advisors who aren't also CPAs are tax-focused are doing a bad job.   Tony: Exactly.   Speaker 1: But you do have to have this other layer of you're working a financial professional who says, "Okay, here's the things we're doing. Now run that by your CPA to make sure everything's groovy." Granted, to be fair, a lot of financial advisors are very tax smart and very tax efficient. But you have that extra layer there, as a CPA, CFP, and an EA. Of course, it gives you the ability to not only think about it now, which I guess would be the CPA side, but then also the future looking tax implications, which is marrying both of those worlds.   Tony: Yeah. I love 401Ks and everything else, and tax deferred savings.   Speaker 1: Sure, sure.   Tony: A lot of people that are accumulating large balances in those tend to forget that they have an IOU to Uncle Sam toward the end.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Now with the new rules, when you die you have to take it out faster and things, it's just something to think about when you're planning.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Let me ask you a question, Tony. I don't know if I've ever asked you this. Which one were you first? Were you a CPA first, or a CFP first? Were you an accountant or a financial advisor?   Tony: I started out as an accountant.   Speaker 1: Okay.   Tony: Early on, when I was working for somebody else, this was 30 years ago plus, all the partners got to talk about all the good stuff. We were just the grunts, if you will. I always wanted to do that-   Speaker 1: The adding machines, yeah.   Tony: Yeah, yeah. We were the operations, and they were the people that got to talk with the clients, and do all the things, and the planning.   Speaker 1: Right.   Tony: I wanted to be that. This was well before even the CFP stuff, and financial planning was even a thing.   Speaker 1: Gotcha.   Tony: It just was one of those things, "I want to be able to do that." That's how I got into it, way back in the day.   But yeah, in answer to your question, I was an accountant first.   Speaker 1: Okay. Again, the role of the CPA typically, it's revisionist history. They're doing their job, they're doing their job well. They're looking at the tax situation that's just expired, the past year. They're going back, and they're helping you do all that kind of stuff. I think by having that hat, and then moving yourself into the CFP, it probably gave you a really interesting and unique approach, which is probably why you set your business up the way you did. To say, "Look, I want to do this not only for the current calendar year, but we've got to be tax efficient through all the years moving forward because that's really where we're going to make a real dent." Is that a fair assessment?   Tony: That's a fair assessment. With tax clients, we already know, at least on the financial side, a lot about them, doing their tax over the years.   Speaker 1: Sure, yeah.   Tony: You know where they're at. You can even back into what they have or haven't saved. It's easy to have conversations about, "You need to start thinking about," say for example, retirement. "Oh, by the way, we have to try to do it tax efficiently." That's how the conversations generally start. If they're not working with somebody, then that's when we will introduce ourselves and say, "Let's try to put something together."   I think most planners are this way, especially us. If people have an outside relationship, we are definitely not out there trying to step on anybody's toes, or steal clients.   Speaker 1: Right, right. There's enough folks out there.   Tony: Number one, it's not good business ethically.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: It's not good if somebody else is doing a good job. We're basically looking at the tax clients and others that don't have that.   Speaker 1: Sure.   Tony: Or some of the people have retired, or they don't hear from them, that kind of thing, is where we come in.   Speaker 1: Well, I think the new numbers ... We've been hearing for a while now that, it was what 10,000 Boomers a day retiring. We've been hearing that for a couple years. Well, I think now, in 2024 going in 2025, I think it's now at maximum peak. They're calling it Peak 65 that's been making the rounds on some of the media lately, you might have saw that. It's 12,000, I think, people a day are eligible for retirement. That's a huge number. Granted, that's globally. But still, that's a big number. Plenty of business to go around, to your point.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: There's no reason to go poaching, so to speak.   Tony: No.   Speaker 1: Let's talk about customization and client education. How do you help clients build that strategy and make those informed decisions? Because education clearly is a big piece of this. Some people really want to come see a professional like you, Tony, and say, "Okay, teach me what I don't know, help me understand this stuff." Others will come to you and say, "I don't care, just handle it."   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: You have to balance that customized plan to, I guess their individual wants and needs, as far as even just knowing the information.   Tony: Really, right off the bat, before we even agree to work with someone is, after we've had a conversation or two and they want to move forward, we basically have them in, and we go through ... It is basic. There's literally 10 or 12 things. We just have them check a box saying, "Does this thing worry you?" Then we score it. Then based on that, I don't show this to the clients, but I basically say, "Yeah, you probably do need some help." Or, "You've pretty much got everything under control by the way you answered this." Then I'll ask them, "Why are we even talking?" But most of them have some anxiety and some pain, so we start there.   Once that's determined, then we go into the plan. Of course, we use software, like most everybody does.   Speaker 1: Sure.   Tony: Then we have some more detailed things to try to get to know them. I always tell people, just like your doctor, I'm uncomfortable with recommending things until I know more about you. I've got the tax stuff.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: I need to know what some of the emotional stuff is. Your goals, what you want out of life, and all of this, before we can make recommendations. Because I think a lot of people think all we sit around and do is make recommendations, and mine could be further from the truth.   Speaker 1: Yeah. Pick this stock, pick that fund. Right, yeah.   Tony: Yeah. Not it.   Speaker 1: That's definitely not the case. Well, Tony, you said something a minute ago. Let me expand on that. You've been doing this for 30 years, in different capacities. You've been in the financial services world. If somebody walked in for their initial consultation, and handed you their files, their basket of stuff. Like a lot of advisors and professionals who've been doing this a long time, I imagine that you probably could look it over, and probably pretty quickly, within five or 15 minutes, have a rough idea of what they should or shouldn't be doing. But to your point about, "I don't know you yet," that's not the best way to give a recommendation. Could you do it because you have the skillset? Yeah, you probably could.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: But you need to learn more about ... You can see all the data, but now let's find out about who the person is. I think that's the real happy marriage in that relationship.   Tony: It is. Once you design a plan for them, and I walk them through it on a basic level. We don't like to talk in jargon, or anything like that. We just set some goals. No different than you'd do, whether it's your business, whether it's your fitness. We monitor those goals and say, "Where are we?" When we meet again, are we progressing toward that goal? Or has it changed and we need to reassess?   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Because that'll tell us a lot about are we in the right things, as far as investments go, to meet those goals. Or maybe, we need to switch things up. Really, I like to call us we want to be the financial quarterback of your financial situation. Yes, we're going to have some investments in there and some different things, but we want to make sure you're covered from start to end. And not only investments. It could be charitable giving. It could be you're under-insured. It could be you're concerned about putting things in trust for some grandkids, things like that. It gets people talking about some things that sometimes they never thought about, for sure.   Speaker 1: Well, that really brings me to my last point, which is how do you value, or how do you assess success for your clients? Yeah, obviously we could go with the basic financial metrics.   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: That's pretty much a given. Hey, is the plan solid? Is it going to get you ... "We've run the numbers, you're going to be able to make it until 99 before running out of money," or whatever, something like that.   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: But what other metrics do you guys use to measure success for a client?   Tony: Well, besides that stuff, which is a given, we have some little charts that we call the Client Happiness Charts. We have clients fill this out at different times along their journey. Then toward the end, when they're retired. Because we want to make sure that they're checking of the boxes that really matter to them, as far as what they consider success. For some of them it's "Hey, I'm now able to travel, I've always wanted to do it." For some of them it's, "I've got this little menial job, I love going to it." There's about 25 of them there.   As we go through the process, it's fun to see, especially if somebody started say in their 30s. We've had a few. I pull them out, they're now retired. To show them, "Well, here's what was important back to you back when you were 35, this was 15, 18 years ago. Now look what you're doing." Just show them the progress.   That's what gives us the most joy, is to see them doing what they want to do. Obviously, some of that takes money, and that's the whole point of trying to grow it. It's that, and making sure that they understand how much they can take out each year and not outlive their money, because that's a big issue with all of our retiree clients.   Speaker 1: Yeah. To your point a second ago as well, are you happy with all the other different pieces? Have we addressed and dealt with the legacy conversation?   Tony: Right.   Speaker 1: Just checking off the bucket list stuff. There's all these little pieces that go into valuing or measuring success for the client. Is it a pleasant experience? Do you look forward to coming in, and talking with your advisor? And saying, "Yeah, I feel like we're buddies. We don't hang out and go to dinner together, but I feel like we have a good rapport." I think that's really important in a lot of business relationships in life, but certainly when you're talking about your money.   Tony: Absolutely.   Speaker 1: With your doctor, too. Some people dread seeing their doctor because they don't like their personality. It's like, well, maybe get a different doctor so that you can have a conversation with them that you're going to take to heart, and it also resonates with you. I think same thing financially. If you go see an advisor, and they don't click with you, and they're giving you good information but you just don't like them, and therefore you don't follow through with it or do anything, you're just wasting your own time. You know what I mean?   Tony: Exactly. Yeah.   Speaker 1: It's important. Good stuff. Well, good conversation, man. Thanks for hanging out with us and chatting a little bit about what makes you guys unique. People in general are unique, so every situation's going to be different. Certainly, there's those big generalities, Tony, that affect all of us in the financial world. Social security, and taxation, and inflation, and blah, blah, blah. All the big core tenets that we have to deal with, that's certainly a part of the game that we have to run through. But every person's little puzzle is different from the next. You and I are completely different people, so our strategies are going to be different.   If you need some help, get on the calendar. Have a conversation with Tony and his team. Or if you're already working with him, and you've got some friends or loved ones that maybe should have that chat for themselves, let them know. Let them check out the podcast. Or just reach out to Tony and his team at yourplanningpros.com. That is yourplanningpros.com for a complimentary consultation and conversation with the team at Tax Doctor, Inc.   Tony, thanks for hanging out, my friend. Good conversation.   Tony: All right. We'll see you next time.   Speaker 1: Always appreciate it. Of course, it's Halloween as we're dropping this, so happy Halloween to everybody. Stay stay and sane. Don't forget to get out there and vote, because it's just around the corner. We'll see you next time here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Securities offered through Avantax Investment Services SM, member FINRA, SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency. Investment strategies discussed in this episode may not be suitable for all investors. Please consult with a financial professional.

What makes farmers or farming so great? – Summary ShowPure Enjoyment:12/21/23 – Thur – F4F – E251 (E344) “Just a Jackson Thing” plus cousins Brad and Becca (Jackson)            Watching tractors rolling in the field with smoke, filling up with seeds all the way through corn and bean harvest.             Blowing smoke, gettin' er done.  Let 'er eat! 11/16/23 – Thur – F4F – E246 (E334) One Legged Mommy – Josie WendelLove of the game!  It doesn't matter to a farmer if they're winning or losing in a year, they'll go right back out to plant again next spring. It's in their blood…the Love of the ‘farming' game!How do you think we can draw upon the enjoyment we all have in farming to entice or educate those that are outside of agriculture?Top Tier People:11/23/23 – Thur – F4F – E247 (E336) John Kowalshuk, Alberta, Canada            It's the people.  There are so many awesome people to talk with and learn from.  I'm proud to be a farmer.            We are quality people. 9/28/23 – Thur – F4F – E240 (E320)  Tim Marks -Tractor Time with Tim – Super charged compact tractors FPS23            The quality of the people in the ag industry is incredible.What is it that makes the people of agriculture such stand up people?  Where did this originate?Quality of Life – Pride in Life Style:10/23/23 – Mon – F4P – E149 (E327) Digital Agriculture: Sowing the Seeds of Online Income – FPS23Natalie – It's the lifestyle it provides.  Farming/ranching is so integrated into our lifestyle.  The pros outweigh the cons, for sure.  The best people are in the farming industry. 9/21/23 – Thur – F4F – E240 (E318) The Modern Day Farm Chick – Annaliese Wegner FPS23It's the Lifestyle.  It's more than just a job.  I get to work with family, be outside and have the kids grow up on the farm.Does this type of lifestyle make it better than other types?  What are the benefits of the lifestyle? Detriments?Connection to Family:10/12/23 – Thur – F4F – E241 (E324) Tony Reed & Nick McCormick – Illinois icons            Tony – It's one big family.  You can relate in so many areas/topics.  It's easy to talk to each other. 10/9/23 – Mon – F4P – E147 (E323) Zach Johnson, Millennial Farmer FPS23 Reflection/summary showWhat do you enjoy most about farming or working with farmers?I love raising my kids on the farm.It's the most rewarding of anything I do.  Having them watch the cycle of life through crops and livestock and working hard.Do you think the connection to family is still as strong today as it was a generation or two ago?Always driving forward:9/11/23  – Mon – F4P – E143 (E315) Thinking ahead: The Key to Farm Success – Sukup, 3rd generation Emily Schmitt FPS23They are natural innovators and problem solvers.  Farmers are the epitome of an innovator.  They figure out how to make things work.  When you meet them and get to know them, you have a natural common bond in farming.  It's easy to get to know them. 11/2/23 – Thur – F4F – E244 (E330) Deeply Rooted in Technology - Brandon Hunnicutt Husker Harvest Days They have the same goals in mind, but everyone does it differently.  You can see they do something differently.  But different doesn't mean it's wrong.  Learn from it.  There is always something to learn.Is it innovation by necessity or innovation by nature?  Can or does this show up in other types of professions?Summary/Challenge Don't forget to like the podcast on all platforms and leave a review where ever you listen!Websitewww.Farm4Profit.comShareable episode linkhttps://intro-to-farm4profit.simplecast.comEmail addressFarm4profitllc@gmail.comPhone515.207.9640Subscribe to YouTubehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSR8c1BrCjNDDI_Acku5XqwFollow us on TikTokhttps://www.tiktok.com/@farm4profitConnect with us on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/Farm4ProfitLLC/

Tony Baer, Principal at dbInsight, joins Corey on Screaming in the Cloud to discuss his definition of what is and isn't a database, and the trends he's seeing in the industry. Tony explains why it's important to try and have an outsider's perspective when evaluating new ideas, and the growing awareness of the impact data has on our daily lives. Corey and Tony discuss the importance of working towards true operational simplicity in the cloud, and Tony also shares why explainability in generative AI is so crucial as the technology advances. About TonyTony Baer, the founder and CEO of dbInsight, is a recognized industry expert in extending data management practices, governance, and advanced analytics to address the desire of enterprises to generate meaningful value from data-driven transformation. His combined expertise in both legacy database technologies and emerging cloud and analytics technologies shapes how clients go to market in an industry undergoing significant transformation. During his 10 years as a principal analyst at Ovum, he established successful research practices in the firm's fastest growing categories, including big data, cloud data management, and product lifecycle management. He advised Ovum clients regarding product roadmap, positioning, and messaging and helped them understand how to evolve data management and analytic strategies as the cloud, big data, and AI moved the goal posts. Baer was one of Ovum's most heavily-billed analysts and provided strategic counsel to enterprises spanning the Fortune 100 to fast-growing privately held companies.With the cloud transforming the competitive landscape for database and analytics providers, Baer led deep dive research on the data platform portfolios of AWS, Microsoft Azure, and Google Cloud, and on how cloud transformation changed the roadmaps for incumbents such as Oracle, IBM, SAP, and Teradata. While at Ovum, he originated the term “Fast Data” which has since become synonymous with real-time streaming analytics.Baer's thought leadership and broad market influence in big data and analytics has been formally recognized on numerous occasions. Analytics Insight named him one of the 2019 Top 100 Artificial Intelligence and Big Data Influencers. Previous citations include Onalytica, which named Baer as one of the world's Top 20 thought leaders and influencers on Data Science; Analytics Week, which named him as one of 200 top thought leaders in Big Data and Analytics; and by KDnuggets, which listed Baer as one of the Top 12 top data analytics thought leaders on Twitter. While at Ovum, Baer was Ovum's IT's most visible and publicly quoted analyst, and was cited by Ovum's parent company Informa as Brand Ambassador in 2017. In raw numbers, Baer has 14,000 followers on Twitter, and his ZDnet “Big on Data” posts are read 20,000 – 30,000 times monthly. He is also a frequent speaker at industry conferences such as Strata Data and Spark Summit.Links Referenced:dbInsight: https://dbinsight.io/ TranscriptAnnouncer: Hello, and welcome to Screaming in the Cloud with your host, Chief Cloud Economist at The Duckbill Group, Corey Quinn. This weekly show features conversations with people doing interesting work in the world of cloud, thoughtful commentary on the state of the technical world, and ridiculous titles for which Corey refuses to apologize. This is Screaming in the Cloud.Corey: This episode is brought to us in part by our friends at RedHat.As your organization grows, so does the complexity of your IT resources. You need a flexible solution that lets you deploy, manage, and scale workloads throughout your entire ecosystem. The Red Hat Ansible Automation Platform simplifies the management of applications and services across your hybrid infrastructure with one platform. Look for it on the AWS Marketplace.Corey: Welcome to Screaming in the Cloud. I'm Corey Quinn. Back in my early formative years, I was an SRE sysadmin type, and one of the areas I always avoided was databases, or frankly, anything stateful because I am clumsy and unlucky and that's a bad combination to bring within spitting distance of anything that, you know, can't be spun back up intact, like databases. So, as a result, I tend not to spend a lot of time historically living in that world. It's time to expand horizons and think about this a little bit differently. My guest today is Tony Baer, principal at dbInsight. Tony, thank you for joining me.Tony: Oh, Corey, thanks for having me. And by the way, we'll try and basically knock down your primal fear of databases today. That's my mission.Corey: We're going to instill new fears in you. Because I was looking through a lot of your work over the years, and the criticism I have—and always the best place to deliver criticism is massively in public—is that you take a very conservative, stodgy approach to defining a database, whereas I'm on the opposite side of the world. I contain information. You can ask me about it, which we'll call querying. That's right. I'm a database.But I've never yet found myself listed in any of your analyses around various database options. So, what is your definition of databases these days? Where do they start and stop? Tony: Oh, gosh.Corey: Because anything can be a database if you hold it wrong.Tony: [laugh]. I think one of the last things I've ever been called as conservative and stodgy, so this is certainly a way to basically put the thumbtack on my share.Corey: Exactly. I'm trying to normalize my own brand of lunacy, so we'll see how it goes.Tony: Exactly because that's the role I normally play with my clients. So, now the shoe is on the other foot. What I view a database is, is basically a managed collection of data, and it's managed to the point where essentially, a database should be transactional—in other words, when I basically put some data in, I should have some positive information, I should hopefully, depending on the type of database, have some sort of guidelines or schema or model for how I structure the data. So, I mean, database, you know, even though you keep hearing about unstructured data, the fact is—Corey: Schemaless databases and data stores. Yeah, it was all the rage for a few years.Tony: Yeah, except that they all have schemas, just that those schemaless databases just have very variable schema. They're still schema.Corey: A question that I have is you obviously think deeply about these things, which should not come as a surprise to anyone. It's like, “Well, this is where I spend my entire career. Imagine that. I might think about the problem space a little bit.” But you have, to my understanding, never worked with databases in anger yourself. You don't have a history as a DBA or as an engineer—Tony: No.Corey: —but what I find very odd is that unlike a whole bunch of other analysts that I'm not going to name, but people know who I'm talking about regardless, you bring actual insights into this that I find useful and compelling, instead of reverting to the mean of well, I don't actually understand how any of these things work in reality, so I'm just going to believe whoever sounds the most confident when I ask a bunch of people about these things. Are you just asking the right people who also happen to sound confident? But how do you get away from that very common analyst trap?Tony: Well, a couple of things. One is I purposely play the role of outside observer. In other words, like, the idea is that if basically an idea is supposed to stand on its own legs, it has to make sense. If I've been working inside the industry, I might take too many things for granted. And a good example of this goes back, actually, to my early days—actually this goes back to my freshman year in college where I was taking an organic chem course for non-majors, and it was taught as a logic course not as a memorization course.And we were given the option at the end of the term to either, basically, take a final or  do a paper. So, of course, me being a writer I thought, I can BS my way through this. But what I found—and this is what fascinated me—is that as long as certain technical terms were defined for me, I found a logic to the way things work. And so, that really informs how I approach databases, how I approach technology today is I look at the logic  on how things work. That being said, in order for me to understand that, I need to know twice as much as the next guy in order to be able to speak that because I just don't do this in my sleep.Corey: That goes a big step toward, I guess, addressing a lot of these things, but it also feels like—and maybe this is just me paying closer attention—that the world of databases and data and analytics have really coalesced or emerged in a very different way over the past decade-ish. It used to be, at least from my perspective, that oh, that the actual, all the data we store, that's a storage admin problem. And that was about managing NetApps and SANs and the rest. And then you had the database side of it, which functionally from the storage side of the world was just a big file or series of files that are the backing store for the database. And okay, there's not a lot of cross-communication going on there.Then with the rise of object store, it started being a little bit different. And even the way that everyone is talking about getting meaning from data has really seem to be evolving at an incredibly intense clip lately. Is that an accurate perception, or have I just been asleep at the wheel for a while and finally woke up?Tony: No, I think you're onto something there. And the reason is that, one, data is touching us all around ourselves, and the fact is, I mean, I'm you can see it in the same way that all of a sudden that people know how to spell AI. They may not know what it means, but the thing is, there is an awareness the data that we work with, the data that is about us, it follows us, and with the cloud, this data has—well, I should say not just with the cloud but with smart mobile devices—we'll blame that—we are all each founts of data, and rich founts of data. And people in all walks of life, not just in the industry, are now becoming aware of it and there's a lot of concern about can we have any control, any ownership over the data that should be ours? So, I think that phenomenon has also happened in the enterprise, where essentially where we used to think that the data was the DBAs' issue, it's become the app developers' issue, it's become the business analysts' issue. Because the answers that we get, we're ultimately accountable for. It all comes from the data.Corey: It also feels like there's this idea of databases themselves becoming more contextually aware of the data contained within them. Originally, this used to be in the realm of, “Oh, we know what's been accessed recently and we can tier out where it lives for storage optimization purposes.” Okay, great, but what I'm seeing now almost seems to be a sense of, people like to talk about pouring ML into their database offerings. And I'm not able to tell whether that is something that adds actual value, or if it's marketing-ware.Tony: Okay. First off, let me kind of spill a couple of things. First of all, it's not a question of the database becoming aware. A database is not sentient.Corey: Niether are some engineers, but that's neither here nor there.Tony: That would be true, but then again, I don't want anyone with shotguns lining up at my door after this—Corey: [laugh].Tony: —after this interview is published. But [laugh] more of the point, though, is that I can see a couple roles for machine learning in databases. One is a database itself, the logs, are an incredible font of data, of operational data. And you can look at trends in terms of when this—when the pattern of these logs goes this way, that is likely to happen. So, the thing is that I could very easily say we're already seeing it: machine learning being used to help optimize the operation of databases, if you're Oracle, and say, “Hey, we can have a database that runs itself.”The other side of the coin is being able to run your own machine-learning models in database as opposed to having to go out into a separate cluster and move the data, and that's becoming more and more of a checkbox feature. However, that's going to be for essentially, probably, like, the low-hanging fruit, like the 80/20 rule. It'll be like the 20% of an ana—of relatively rudimentary, you know, let's say, predictive analyses that we can do inside the database. If you're going to be doing something more ambitious, such as a, you know, a large language model, you probably do not want to run that in database itself. So, there's a difference there.Corey: One would hope. I mean, one of the inappropriate uses of technology that I go for all the time is finding ways to—as directed or otherwise—in off-label uses find ways of tricking different services into running containers for me. It's kind of a problem; this is probably why everyone is very grateful I no longer write production code for anyone.But it does seem that there's been an awful lot of noise lately. I'm lazy. I take shortcuts very often, and one of those is that whenever AWS talks about something extensively through multiple marketing cycles, it becomes usually a pretty good indicator that they're on their back foot on that area. And for a long time, they were doing that about data and how it's very important to gather data, it unlocks the key to your business, but it always felt a little hollow-slash-hypocritical to me because you're going to some of the same events that I have that AWS throws on. You notice how you have to fill out the exact same form with a whole bunch of mandatory fields every single time, but there never seems to be anything that gets spat back out to you that demonstrates that any human or system has ever read—Tony: Right.Corey: Any of that? It's basically a, “Do what we say, not what we do,” style of story. And I always found that to be a little bit disingenuous.Tony: I don't want to just harp on AWS here. Of course, we can always talk about the two-pizza box rule and the fact that you have lots of small teams there, but I'd rather generalize this. And I think you really—what you're just describing is been my trip through the healthcare system. I had some sports-related injuries this summer, so I've been through a couple of surgeries to repair sports injuries. And it's amazing that every time you go to the doctor's office, you're filling the same HIPAA information over and over again, even with healthcare systems that use the same electronic health records software. So, it's more a function of that it's not just that the technologies are siloed, it's that the organizations are siloed. That's what you're saying.Corey: That is fair. And I think at some level—I don't know if this is a weird extension of Conway's Law or whatnot—but these things all have different backing stores as far as data goes. And there's a—the hard part, it seems, in a lot of companies once they hit a certain point of maturity is not just getting the data in—because they've already done that to some extent—but it's also then making it actionable and helping various data stores internal to the company reconcile with one another and start surfacing things that are useful. It increasingly feels like it's less of a technology problem and more of a people problem.Tony: It is. I mean, put it this way, I spent a lot of time last year, I burned a lot of brain cells working on data fabrics, which is an idea that's in the idea of the beholder. But the ideal of a data fabric is that it's not the tool that necessarily governs your data or secures your data or moves your data or transforms your data, but it's supposed to be the master orchestrator that brings all that stuff together. And maybe sometime 50 years in the future, we might see that.I think the problem here is both technical and organizational. [unintelligible 00:11:58] a promise, you have all these what we used call island silos. We still call them silos or islands of information. And actually, ironically, even though in the cloud we have technologies where we can integrate this, the cloud has actually exacerbated this issue because there's so many islands of information, you know, coming up, and there's so many different little parts of the organization that have their hands on that. That's also a large part of why there's such a big discussion about, for instance, data mesh last year: everybody is concerned about owning their own little piece of the pie, and there's a lot of question in terms of how do we get some consistency there? How do we all read from the same sheet of music? That's going to be an ongoing problem. You and I are going to get very old before that ever gets solved.Corey: Yeah, there are certain things that I am content to die knowing that they will not get solved. If they ever get solved, I will not live to see it, and there's a certain comfort in that, on some level.Tony: Yeah.Corey: But it feels like this stuff is also getting more and more complicated than it used to be, and terms aren't being used in quite the same way as they once were. Something that a number of companies have been saying for a while now has been that customers overwhelmingly are preferring open-source. Open source is important to them when it comes to their database selection. And I feel like that's a conflation of a couple of things. I've never yet found an ideological, purity-driven customer decision around that sort of thing.What they care about is, are there multiple vendors who can provide this thing so I'm not going to be using a commercially licensed database that can arbitrarily start playing games with seat licenses and wind up distorting my cost structure massively with very little notice. Does that align with your—Tony: Yeah.Corey: Understanding of what people are talking about when they say that, or am I missing something fundamental? Which is again, always possible?Tony: No, I think you're onto something there. Open-source is a whole other can of worms, and I've burned many, many brain cells over this one as well. And today, you're seeing a lot of pieces about the, you know, the—that are basically giving eulogies for open-source. It's—you know, like HashiCorp just finally changed its license and a bunch of others have in the database world. What open-source has meant is been—and I think for practitioners, for DBAs and developers—here's a platform that's been implemented by many different vendors, which means my skills are portable.And so, I think that's really been the key to why, for instance, like, you know, MySQL and especially PostgreSQL have really exploded, you know, in popularity. Especially Postgres, you know, of late. And it's like, you look at Postgres, it's a very unglamorous database. If you're talking about stodgy, it was born to be stodgy because they wanted to be an adult database from the start. They weren't the LAMP stack like MySQL.And the secret of success with Postgres was that it had a very permissive open-source license, which meant that as long as you don't hold University of California at Berkeley, liable, have at it, kids. And so, you see, like, a lot of different flavors of Postgres out there, which means that a lot of customers are attracted to that because if I get up to speed on this Postgres—on one Postgres database, my skills should be transferable, should be portable to another. So, I think that's a lot of what's happening there.Corey: Well, I do want to call that out in particular because when I was coming up in the naughts, the mid-2000s decade, the lingua franca on everything I used was MySQL, or as I insist on mispronouncing it, my-squeal. And lately, on same vein, Postgres-squeal seems to have taken over the entire universe, when it comes to the de facto database of choice. And I'm old and grumpy and learning new things as always challenging, so I don't understand a lot of the ways that thing gets managed from the context coming from where I did before, but what has driven the massive growth of mindshare among the Postgres-squeal set?Tony: Well, I think it's a matter of it's 30 years old and it's—number one, Postgres always positioned itself as an Oracle alternative. And the early years, you know, this is a new database, how are you going to be able to match, at that point, Oracle had about a 15-year headstart on it. And so, it was a gradual climb to respectability. And I have huge respect for Oracle, don't get me wrong on that, but you take a look at Postgres today and they have basically filled in a lot of the blanks.And so, it now is a very cre—in many cases, it's a credible alternative to Oracle. Can it do all the things Oracle can do? No. But for a lot of organizations, it's the 80/20 rule. And so, I think it's more just a matter of, like, Postgres coming of age. And the fact is, as a result of it coming of age, there's a huge marketplace out there and so much choice, and so much opportunity for skills portability. So, it's really one of those things where its time has come.Corey: I think that a lot of my own biases are simply a product of the era in which I learned how a lot of these things work on. I am terrible at Node, for example, but I would be hard-pressed not to suggest JavaScript as the default language that people should pick up if they're just entering tech today. It does front-end, it does back-end—Tony: Sure.Corey: —it even makes fries, apparently. There's a—that is the lingua franca of the modern internet in a bunch of different ways. That doesn't mean I'm any good at it, and it doesn't mean at this stage, I'm likely to improve massively at it, but it is the right move, even if it is inconvenient for me personally.Tony: Right. Right. Put it this way, we've seen—and as I said, I'm not an expert in programming languages, but we've seen a huge profusion of programming languages and frameworks. But the fact is that there's always been a draw towards critical mass. At the turn of the millennium, we thought is between Java and .NET. Little did we know that basically JavaScript—which at that point was just a web scripting language—[laugh] we didn't know that it could work on the server; we thought it was just a client. Who knew?Corey: That's like using something inappropriately as a database. I mean, good heavens.Tony: [laugh]. That would be true. I mean, when I could have, you know, easily just use a spreadsheet or something like that. But so, I mean, who knew? I mean, just like for instance, Java itself was originally conceived for a set-top box. You never know how this stuff is going to turn out. It's the same thing happen with Python. Python was also a web scripting language. Oh, by the way, it happens to be really powerful and flexible for data science. And whoa, you know, now Python is—in terms of data science languages—has become the new SaaS.Corey: It really took over in a bunch of different ways. Before that, Perl was great, and I go, “Why would I use—why write in Python when Perl is available?” It's like, “Okay, you know, how to write Perl, right?” “Yeah.” “Have you ever read anything a month later?” “Oh…” it's very much a write-only language. It is inscrutable after the fact. And Python at least makes that a lot more approachable, which is never a bad thing.Tony: Yeah.Corey: Speaking of what you touched on toward the beginning of this episode, the idea of databases not being sentient, which I equate to being self-aware, you just came out very recently with a report on generative AI and a trip that you wound up taking on this. Which I've read; I love it. In fact, we've both been independently using the phrase [unintelligible 00:19:09] to, “English is the new most common programming language once a lot of this stuff takes off.” But what have you seen? What have you witnessed as far as both the ground truth reality as well as the grandiose statements that companies are making as they trip over themselves trying to position as the forefront leader and all of this thing that didn't really exist five months ago?Tony: Well, what's funny is—and that's a perfect question because if on January 1st you asked “what's going to happen this year?” I don't think any of us would have thought about generative AI or large language models. And I will not identify the vendors, but I did some that had— was on some advanced briefing calls back around the January, February timeframe. They were talking about things like server lists, they were talking about in database machine learning and so on and so forth. They weren't saying anything about generative.And all of a sudden, April, it changed. And it's essentially just another case of the tail wagging the dog. Consumers were flocking to ChatGPT and enterprises had to take notice. And so, what I saw, in the spring was—and I was at a conference from SaaS, I'm [unintelligible 00:20:21] SAP, Oracle, IBM, Mongo, Snowflake, Databricks and others—that they all very quickly changed their tune to talk about generative AI. What we were seeing was for the most part, position statements, but we also saw, I think, the early emphasis was, as you say, it's basically English as the new default programming language or API, so basically, coding assistance, what I'll call conversational query.I don't want to call it natural language query because we had stuff like Tableau Ask Data, which was very robotic. So, we're seeing a lot of that. And we're also seeing a lot of attention towards foundation models because I mean, what organization is going to have the resources of a Google or an open AI to develop their own foundation model? Yes, some of the Wall Street houses might, but I think most of them are just going to say, “Look, let's just use this as a starting point.”I also saw a very big theme for your models with your data. And where I got a hint of that—it was a throwaway LinkedIn post. It was back in, I think like, February, Databricks had announced Dolly, which was kind of an experimental foundation model, just to use with your own data. And I just wrote three lines in a LinkedIn post, it was on Friday afternoon. By Monday, it had 65,000 hits.I've never seen anything—I mean, yes, I had a lot—I used to say ‘data mesh' last year, and it would—but didn't get anywhere near that. So, I mean, that really hit a nerve. And other things that I saw, was the, you know, the starting to look with vector storage and how that was going to be supported was it was going be a new type of database, and hey, let's have AWS come up with, like, an, you know, an [ADF 00:21:41] database here or is this going to be a feature? I think for the most part, it's going to be a feature. And of course, under all this, everybody's just falling in love, falling all over themselves to get in the good graces of Nvidia. In capsule, that's kind of like what I saw.Corey: That feels directionally accurate. And I think databases are a great area to point out one thing that's always been more a little disconcerting for me. The way that I've always viewed databases has been, unless I'm calling a RAND function or something like it and I don't change the underlying data structure, I should be able to run a query twice in a row and receive the same result deterministically both times.Tony: Mm-hm.Corey: Generative AI is effectively non-deterministic for all realistic measures of that term. Yes, I'm sure there's a deterministic reason things are under the hood. I am not smart enough or learned enough to get there. But it just feels like sometimes we're going to give you the answer you think you're going to get, sometimes we're going to give you a different answer. And sometimes, in generative AI space, we're going to be supremely confident and also completely wrong. That feels dangerous to me.Tony: [laugh]. Oh gosh, yes. I mean, I take a look at ChatGPT and to me, the responses are essentially, it's a high school senior coming out with an essay response without any footnotes. It's the exact opposite of an ACID database. The reason why we're very—in the database world, we're very strongly drawn towards ACID is because we want our data to be consistent and to get—if we ask the same query, we're going to get the same answer.And the problem is, is that with generative, you know, based on large language models, computers sounds sentient, but they're not. Large language models are basically just a series of probabilities, and so hopefully those probabilities will line up and you'll get something similar. That to me, kind of scares me quite a bit. And I think as we start to look at implementing this in an enterprise setting, we need to take a look at what kind of guardrails can we put on there. And the thing is, that what this led me to was that missing piece that I saw this spring with generative AI, at least in the data and analytics world, is nobody had a clue in terms of how to extend AI governance to this, how to make these models explainable. And I think that's still—that's a large problem. That's a huge nut that it's going to take the industry a while to crack.Corey: Yeah, but it's incredibly important that it does get cracked.Tony: Oh, gosh, yes.Corey: One last topic that I want to get into. I know you said you don't want to over-index on AWS, which, fair enough. It is where I spend the bulk of my professional time and energy—Tony: [laugh].Corey: Focusing on, but I think this one's fair because it is a microcosm of a broader industry question. And that is, I don't know what the DBA job of the future is going to look like, but increasingly, it feels like it's going to primarily be picking which purpose-built AWS database—or larger [story 00:24:56] purpose database is appropriate for a given workload. Even without my inappropriate misuse of things that are not databases as databases, they are legitimately 15 or 16 different AWS services that they position as database offerings. And it really feels like you're spiraling down a well of analysis paralysis, trying to pick between all these things. Do you think the future looks more like general-purpose databases, or very purpose-built and each one is this beautiful, bespoke unicorn?Tony: [laugh]. Well, this is basically a hit on a theme that I've been—you know, we've been all been thinking about for years. And the thing is, there are arguments to be made for multi-model databases, you know, versus a for-purpose database. That being said, okay, two things. One is that what I've been saying, in general, is that—and I wrote about this way, way back; I actually did a talk at the [unintelligible 00:25:50]; it was a throwaway talk, or [unintelligible 00:25:52] one of those conferences—I threw it together and it's basically looking at the emergence of all these specialized databases.But how I saw, also, there's going to be kind of an overlapping. Not that we're going to come back to Pangea per se, but that, for instance, like, a relational database will be able to support JSON. And Oracle, for instance, does has some fairly brilliant ideas up the sleeve, what they call a JSON duality, which sounds kind of scary, which basically says, “We can store data relationally, but superimpose GraphQL on top of all of this and this is going to look really JSON-y.” So, I think on one hand, you are going to be seeing databases that do overlap. Would I use Oracle for a MongoDB use case? No, but would I use Oracle for a case where I might have some document data? I could certainly see that.The other point, though, and this is really one I want to hammer on here—it's kind of a major concern I've had—is I think the cloud vendors, for all their talk that we give you operational simplicity and agility are making things very complex with its expanding cornucopia of services. And what they need to do—I'm not saying, you know, let's close down the patent office—what I think we do is we need to provide some guided experiences that says, “Tell us the use case. We will now blend these particular services together and this is the package that we would suggest.” I think cloud vendors really need to go back to the drawing board from that standpoint and look at, how do we bring this all together? How would he really simplify the life of the customer?Corey: That is, honestly, I think the biggest challenge that the cloud providers have across the board. There are hundreds of services available at this point from every hyperscaler out there. And some of them are brand new and effectively feel like they're there for three or four different customers and that's about it and others are universal services that most people are probably going to use. And most things fall in between those two extremes, but it becomes such an analysis paralysis moment of trying to figure out what do I do here? What is the golden path?And what that means is that when you start talking to other people and asking their opinion and getting their guidance on how to do something when you get stuck, it's, “Oh, you're using that service? Don't do it. Use this other thing instead.” And if you listen to that, you get midway through every problem for them to start over again because, “Oh, I'm going to pick a different selection of underlying components.” It becomes confusing and complicated, and I think it does customers largely a disservice. What I think we really need, on some level, is a simplified golden path with easy on-ramps and easy off-ramps where, in the absence of a compelling reason, this is what you should be using.Tony: Believe it or not, I think this would be a golden case for machine learning.Corey: [laugh].Tony: No, but submit to us the characteristics of your workload, and here's a recipe that we would propose. Obviously, we can't trust AI to make our decisions for us, but it can provide some guardrails.Corey: “Yeah. Use a graph database. Trust me, it'll be fine.” That's your general purpose—Tony: [laugh].Corey: —approach. Yeah, that'll end well.Tony: [laugh]. I would hope that the AI would basically be trained on a better set of training data to not come out with that conclusion.Corey: One could sure hope.Tony: Yeah, exactly.Corey: I really want to thank you for taking the time to catch up with me around what you're doing. If people want to learn more, where's the best place for them to find you?Tony: My website is dbinsight.io. And on my homepage, I list my latest research. So, you just have to go to the homepage where you can basically click on the links to the latest and greatest. And I will, as I said, after Labor Day, I'll be publishing my take on my generative AI journey from the spring.Corey: And we will, of course, put links to this in the [show notes 00:29:39]. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.Tony: Hey, it's been a pleasure, Corey. Good seeing you again.Corey: Tony Baer, principal at dbInsight. I'm Cloud Economist Corey Quinn, and this is Screaming in the Cloud. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, whereas if you've hated this podcast, please leave a five-star review on your podcast platform of choice, along with an angry, insulting comment that we will eventually stitch together with all those different platforms to create—that's right—a large-scale distributed database.Corey: If your AWS bill keeps rising and your blood pressure is doing the same, then you need The Duckbill Group. We help companies fix their AWS bill by making it smaller and less horrifying. The Duckbill Group works for you, not AWS. We tailor recommendations to your business and we get to the point. Visit duckbillgroup.com to get started.

Almost everyone has made investment mistakes at some point. In this episode, we'll talk about how to bounce back from mistakes and avoid making them again in the future.   Important Links:  Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript:  Speaker 1: ... Back here for another edition of Plan With The Tax Man, into the month of August here in 2023. And it's time to talk about overcoming investment setbacks, bouncing back really if we've had some issues in our financial lives. And that's what we're going to get into this episode and how to, hopefully, avoid some of these again in the future. Things happen, we all make missteps and mistakes, but there's no reason we can't try to correct those and course correct and keep ourselves on the right path to get to and through retirement. So we're going to have that chat with Tony this week here on the podcast. What is going on, my friend? How are you? Tony: I am good. Just still enjoying the summer. It's going to be over before we know it here. Speaker 1: Well, we're into August, so yes. Tony: It'll be state fair time. Speaker 1: There you go. Now I got a little weakness for the funnel cakes there, the elephant ears. Tony: For the [inaudible 00:00:48]. Speaker 1: Yes, whatever you want to call them. Some places they call them elephant ears, someplace they call them funnel cakes. It's the same thing, but at least I think it is anyway. Now I'll tell you something though, I've never had one of these before and I didn't even realize it was a thing until I tried it. Have you ever had what they call the walking taco? I believe that's what they call it, where it's basically all the taco stuff inside a like Doritos bag or a Frito bag. Tony: A chip bag. Speaker 1: Yes, a chip bag. Tony: I have had it. I haven't had it at the fair, but I have had them. That's what they are. Speaker 1: I never saw one before until I saw one at the fair and I was like, "Ooh, this is calling my name. This is incredibly not good for me, but I don't care. I'm going to eat it ..." And it was fantastic. Tony: It is good, yes. Our fair is so big. It's a big highlight around here. And every year they put out what's new at the fair for the food list because everybody goes for the junk food. Speaker 1: Sure. Tony: And it's just incredible what we have. Just weird stuff, like everything's on a stick here. Speaker 1: All right. Tony: And it's fried and it's just crazy, the foods. But I don't know if you guys have a big state fair or not?- Speaker 1: Yes. Tony: ... but ours is big and- Speaker 1: Interesting stuff. Tony: ... I'm actually looking online here. I don't even know what some of this stuff is. Speaker 1: Like snicker bar on a stick? Tony: Yes, deep-fried sweet corn nugget. Sweet corn fried?- Speaker 1: The sweet corn and you deep-fry it. We'll- Tony: Deep-fry it. Speaker 1: Humans will deep-fry anything, I think Tony: I know it. We're Americans. Yes, we do a lot. Speaker 1: That's for sure. But anyway, well, hopefully you guys will enjoy and you don't get too crazy, make yourself sick to your stomach, but- Tony: We'll be bouncing back from fair. Speaker 1: You'll be bouncing back. There you go. Nice segue. I like it. I like that. Tony: That'd be a mistake. Speaker 1: That's right. Well, let's get into some of these financial bounce backs we might need to do. First thing you need to do, if you do have a financial misstep, Tony, is just obviously determine the cause, right? Tony: Yes. Speaker 1: So what's some bullet points here to think about how you got there in the first place? Tony: Well, most people are going to look at this and say, "Well, I mistimed some stock or some investment." Speaker 1: True. Tony: And most of the time what we see is the mistakes themselves are really not starting soon enough. And that means saving, and that's the biggest one of all. Yes, you can miss time and do that, but you shouldn't be trying to time anyway. But really what you got to do is, whatever the mistake is, whether it's that or just not starting soon enough or something else, is- Speaker 1: Bad luck, whatever. Tony: ... Just figure out, say what caused it, what kind of spot I was in my life when it happened, what kind of information did I have available to me? Maybe you're one of those people that listened to everybody but the right people about everything. Speaker 1: I always refer to that as the cousin Eddie, if anybody who's ever- Tony: Cousin Eddie. Speaker 1: ... Watched any of the vacation movies, right? Tony: Yes. Speaker 1: The cousin Eddie moments because he's always doing something goofy or wrong or whatever. He tells you advise and it's usually not good. Tony: It's usually not good. No. And we get that out on the tax side. Clients will call and say, "Well, I heard from such and such." And my first question is, "What does such and such do for a living?" And they'll say, "Well, he's a barber." And I say, "Well, I don't know that's really his realm to be giving that kind of advice." Speaker 1: To give you tax advice, right? Tony: Yes. So you get a lot of that and it's proliferated with the internet. You got to watch you listen to. Speaker 1: Oh, of course, yes. And that's usually the number one source of bad advice any more is the internet. Because it's- Tony: It is. Speaker 1: ... Just so much on there. Tony: There is so much on there. It is. And so you got to watch what you're getting. That could be a whole conversation on its own. You Google a topic and you think it's right, and it may or may not be. There are probably elements that are correct. Speaker 1: Exactly. Tony: But it might not be all of that. Speaker 1: There's actually a whole industry, Tony sorry, wrapped around internet ads that are designed to look like news articles or news stories so that you feel like it has a bit more realism to it. "Oh, this is news related or newsworthy." But it really is just an ad. It's just a solicitation or a sales piece. So definitely easy. So determining the cause, I think, great place. You've got to figure that out. Did you get the right information? Did you get enough information? Was it just bad timing? It's okay, you've made the mistake. You mentioned savings, so now we need to make up that difference we've lost. So what are some things to do as far as increasing our savings rates? Tony: Well, once you've identified the mistake, and if you have lost some money, the easy thing is to increase the savings. That's really not really all that complex on how to do that, but it's easy to be able to increase it. Especially as you progress in life, some of your expenses start to decrease, and so you're going to have more disposable income that you can then take and increase the savings rate. Speaker 1: The government gives us some catch up contribution provisions in various different things. So there's some of that, right? Tony: Yes, you can do that. You pay off a car, continue making the payment, but make it to yourself and put it in your retirement account or your savings account. Speaker 1: As my dad used to call us, maybe get the little ankle biters off of your payroll. He used to call us ankle biters. Tony: When you were kids. Yes, you do. You get the kids out of the house and then all of a sudden you've got an instant raise. And so there's a lot of ways to increase the savings rate. I've seen people go get a second job and say they just want to save more [inaudible 00:06:09]. Speaker 1: Depending on the kind of damage that you've had to the setback. And I think most of the time, if we've just made a mistake, Tony, it's usually not super detrimental, but you do want to recalibrate your goals or recalibrate your plan because maybe you did make a bad investment. Well, let's do something recent, maybe you got on the crypto train or something, and you were a crypto millionaire one week and you were crypto broke the next, whatever it might be. But that's when you say, "So now I've identified the problem. I know what I did wrong. Now we're working towards making that shortfall back up by increasing our savings contributions to paying our future self, AKA retirement fund. So now let's recalibrate that plan or recalibrate the goals." Right? Tony: Yes. And it's easy to do because, again, it doesn't take a lot, especially if you're talking through it with somebody who, well, and say, in my case, we visit with this clients all the time. It could be as easy as maybe delaying retirement for a year, could mean, hey, we just change our lifestyle a little bit and reduce our expenses. It's not going to be something drastic, and maybe you're in a giant home that you need to downsize and you could save some money there. Speaker 1: Sure. Tony: Maybe it's just watching things a little bit more until you feel more comfortable. I think- Speaker 1: You don't get the muscle car you've been wanting, or you don't get the- Tony: No. Speaker 1: Maybe you get the muscle car, but you just don't do all the remodel on it just yet. You don't do all the- Tony: Repairs. Speaker 1: ... Repairs just yet, or... Little ways you can do stuff, right? Tony: Yes. I have a retiree client and she calls me, and really a lot of our conversations are based around, for lack of a better word, me talking her off the ledge because she likes to put money in her home, and she really likes to keep it spruced up and remodeled. And I'm there really more for the sounding board of, well... She's got plenty of money and she could do it, but it's like, "Well, do you really need it right now? Maybe you take it a little slower so it doesn't affect the other fun stuff you like to do." And many times listen to that and follow along on those lines. But I think if she was out on her own, she would probably be dipping into and probably taking much more than she needs. Speaker 1: A little more often. Tony: More often. And then I think she would be not happy with that because she does like to balance it and do other things in life. And- Speaker 1: That's a great point. Tony: Again, balance is the key because- Speaker 1: Well, to me, I don't know, Tony, with all the technology we have at our fingertips now, I think a big portion of what you guys do as financial professionals is what they call behavioral management, right? Tony: It is. Speaker 1: Because- Tony: And much more so than investment management, yes. Speaker 1: It can be, right? Because just about everybody's got the same software, just about everybody's got the same access to the various different things out there, depending on what kind of license that you have as a financial professional, but really it's relationship building and that behavioral management. To your point to that story you just told this client's comfortable calling you up and saying, "All right, I'm thinking about doing something silly. What do you think?" And then you talk through it and you go, "Based on where we're at, go ahead and go for it." Or "If you do, maybe we're going to make a change to that vacation that was planned for next year." Or something like that. Tony: Yes. And then that's all it comes down to is just some simple discussion. Speaker 1: And then rework the plan. Tony: And you got to rework the plan a little bit. It's funny because from our standpoint, we take a lot of notes so we can remind the clients like, "Well, last time we talked you said this, but you can change your mind. But that is what you said last time." It's a fun conversation. You can have fun with it. But it is interesting because I think clients, you could survive it, of course, yourself, but you may make bigger mistakes and take longer to recover- Speaker 1: Sure. Tony: ... Without some advice of some kind. Speaker 1: Well, and I think that's when getting a real plan in place certainly comes into play. So maybe if you're in a situation, Tony, where you've made a financial mistake and you haven't started working with a professional yet, now is the time to really do it. And often, it's like going to the dentist, I hate to equate what you do with going to the dentist, but it's the same kind of feeling sometimes where we're like, I just know he's going to say or she's going to tell me something bad and it's going to cost me pain. In this case, the dentist analogy, and then maybe you wind up going and it's not nearly as bad as you thought. And I think that's what happens with advisors a lot. People are like, "Oh no, I'm going to go in there and I'm going to have to tell them what I did, or I have to show them my stuff and it's going to be painful and they're going to tell me I can never retire." All those kinds of things. Tony: Oh, I know it. Speaker 1: And often it's not nearly as bad as we think that it is. I think as humans, we just do that naturally. Tony: We do. I've actually got a client, as you were saying, that in fact we're emailing back and forth this week, he's an accounting client, not a financial planning client. He's got an advisor. And I don't think the advisor's giving him bad advice, but what the client wants to do, and get this, he's about, I don't know 63, 64, he wants to pull a million dollars out of his retirement account because him and his wife found a little place and a little acreage, and they want to build a house on it. It's just south of where we're at. And he's a big outdoors guy. And so he's trying to rationalize this with me and his advisor as his tax account. And I'm saying, "Well, boy, you're going to owe a lot of tax on that. Maybe you want to split it up." The advisor's telling him, "Well, maybe you want to just go borrow because you're going to pull all this out, and then when you start to need this for income, it's tied up in your house." Which she's got a point too. Speaker 1: Well, she does have a point there, but borrowing right now, it is not a borrower's market. Tony: That's what the client's saying is, it's not a borrower's market. So we're trying to put some numbers together and say, well, if you borrowed, here's how much it's going to cost you, if you spread the tax out. And try to get the best scenario for him, and then he'll have to make that decision. But- Speaker 1: Exactly. Tony: And he's got me on the tax side, his advisor on the advisory side, both trying to help him make the right decision and whatnot. Speaker 1: And that's interesting. Tony: But that goes back to really maybe if he didn't have us, he would probably... Because what he wanted to do is just pull out all the money in one year and pay the taxes. And he thought that would be a better deal than spreading it out. And I said, "No. Here, here's the exact numbers because I've got them right off your tax check." Speaker 1: Going to kick you up a tax bracket and all sorts of stuff. Tony: It would've cost him like $75,000. And I said, at least spread it out to save 75,000. But it's just one of those things though, where even though he has a plan in place, he's changing his plan because he wants something in his life and hey, there's nothing wrong with it. But- Speaker 1: Exactly. They're modifying the plan, that's part of the process because they think life's going to happen, we're going to do different things. And me personally, I think kudos to you and him as well for doing that. But oftentimes many advisors, they struggle with that whole split thing where you're the tax person, the CPA, but you're also not doing the financial side because it is hard when you have two different people giving you, maybe, conflicting advice. So as the person in the middle, sometimes you wind up being in a tough spot, but at the same time, at least he does have those sounding boards. So I think- Tony: He's got that. And for me, if we have an accounting or tax relationship, if they've got an advisor- Speaker 1: Sure. Tony: ... Of course that they like, I like to think we're on the same team. Unless the person was completely crazed and- Speaker 1: Bad advice. Tony: ... Offering horrible advice, but try to be on the same team because- Speaker 1: Sure. Tony: ... I don't want to interfere with that relationship and you just don't know. But some accountants don't like it, some advisors don't like it. Speaker 1: I was going to say, it just depends on the relationship and again, kudos to everybody from making that work. But that's a great illustration though of why even if you make a mistake or have a looming mistake, having a financial team to help you out can go a long way towards hopefully staving off a financial mistake or bouncing back from one. So that was a topic this week. Hopefully that helps out a little bit. And if you have made a mistake and you're worried about going and seeing a finance professional, don't. The longer you procrastinate, just like that tooth, that dentist analogy I was going with, it's only going to hurt worse. It's only going to get worse if you ignore it. And when you finally do go to the dentist and then you maybe have to have a root canal and then it's all more expensive and more painful. So go find out what you need. Go get a plan together for where you're at in life, whether you've made any mistakes or not. And that way, even if the news is not great, at least you know what you now need to start doing in order to get yourself into that better spot. Sooner is always better than later. So get yourself onto the calendar. Reach out to Tony and his team at yourplanningpros.com. That's your planningpros.com. He is a CPA, a CFP, an EA of 27 plus years experience. So get onto the calendar today at yourplanningpros.com Tony, thanks for hanging out, buddy. Tony: We'll see you next time. Speaker 1: See you later on this month, in August, we'll be getting closer to football season for all you football bands. So we will catch you next time here on Plan With The Tax Man with Tony Mauro from Tax Doctor Inc. Don't forget to subscribe on Apple, Google, and Spotify.   Disclaimer: Securities offered through Avantax Investment ServicesSM. Member FINRA, S.I.P.C. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency.

On this week's show, we'll answer some mailbag questions that have come in. We'll discuss if you should pay off your house, financially support adult children, and how often you should communicate with your advisor.   Important Links:  Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript:  Speaker 1: Back for another edition of Plan With The Tax Man, with Tony Mauro, from Tax Doctor Inc. We're going to talk, well, actually, email questions this week. We haven't done an email show for a while, so we're going to take some questions from folks that have sent stuff into the office, or the website at yourplanningpros.com. That's yourplanningpros.com. You can get your questions asked and answered, and get yourself some time on Tony's calendar to sit down and talk about your retirement situation, or your tax situation. Tony is a CPA, CFP and EA of over 27 years experience, and a great resource for you to tap into here. Well, he's got clients all over the place, but his office is in Des Moines, so reach out to him online at yourplanningpros.com. What's going on, my friend? How are you? Tony : I'm good. Enjoying the summer. How about you? Speaker 1: Doing the same. Hanging in there, rocking and rolling. Well, actually, about the time we're going to drop this, it's going to be probably right after 4th of July, so I hope that you had a good 4th of July. We're taping it ahead of 4th of July, but we're dropping it after, so hopefully you have a good one. Tony : Yeah, yeah. Hopefully everybody out there is going to get out and get a chance to enjoy the summertime. I like the summers the best. Speaker 1: Any 4th of July plans, both since we're ahead of time? Tony : Not much for us this year. Probably just relaxing around home a little bit. Maybe playing a little golf, and watch fireworks. Yeah. Speaker 1: There you go. Sounds like a plan. Yeah, we got some family coming in. We'll be around the pool, hot dogs and burgers, and all that good stuff. Classic 4th of July for us. Anyway, hope everybody has a good one, and had a good one, I should say by the time you're catching this podcast. But let's go ahead and take some email questions, Tony, from around the area, we'll have a fairly short podcast this week, but we'll see if we can help some folks out. We got an email from Tony, and it was not you. Tony : Yep. Speaker 1: But Tony did say, "Hey, Tony, I'm hesitant to pay off my house, because I don't have many other tax deductions at this point, but I do have a hundred grand on the bank, and only owe 45 grand on the house, so I'm really tempted to pay it off. What's your thoughts?" Tony : I'd tell Tony to pay it off. Speaker 1: Yeah? Tony : I'll tell you why. A lot of people get hung up on, "I don't have any other tax deductions," and they don't realize how, especially with only a $45,000 mortgage, how little their tax deduction really is, if even they can use it on the federal side, because they don't have a lot of other deductions. This particular deduction goes on a schedule A, and there's a threshold you have to get over, which is, for singles $12,000 and some change. If you don't have other deductions to get you over that, you won't even be able to use it. I would say that even if, let's say your mortgage interest, for example, is $2,000, $3,000 a year on that, probably even be [inaudible 00:02:37] by now, your tax savings, if you're in a 20% bracket, maybe $600 versus, I don't know how much you're spending on the mortgage, but let's say your mortgage payment's $800 a month, times 12, that's $9,600 a year. I'd rather have that in my cash flow, and build that a hundred thousand back up. Then keep letting that money grow. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : That's my philosophy. I'm not a big debt guy. Especially, I like to not have a lot of debt, and I advise people not to carry a lot of debt. Speaker 1: Now, the tax deduction- Tony : Obviously... Oh, go ahead. Speaker 1: Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off there. The tax deduction part of this question is a moot point right now, correct? Tony : It is. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : Yeah, it is a moot point. I think that you're better off long-term, is snowballing your cash flow, and it won't take you long to recoup the money, the $45,000. Then it's just all gravy from there, and you're out of that debt. But obviously, you can't do that if you're a young person going out, and just buying their first home, generally. Speaker 1: Right, right. Tony : But you could try to pay it off early. Speaker 1: Well, this is always an interesting question, when we get something like this, Tony, because first of all, okay, he's probably still sitting on a pretty nice rate, right? Tony : Sure. Speaker 1: He's got a $100,000 in the bank, he owes $45,000, he's probably paying like 3%, is my guess. He's probably had this mortgage for a while. It's probably before the rates started going back up. Many people do find themselves wondering, "Well okay, right now, even at in a CD I could get 5%, is it worth doing a short-term CD, or something, and getting more than I'm losing on the house? But to your point, there's the emotional factor, and he's so close that it's like, "Well, all right, maybe this difference is not that massive," that it's not draining you down too much. I think that's always the math. Then you do all the math, and then you add in the tummy factor to go, "Just how much better would I feel not having the mortgage on my head?" Tony : That's right. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : That's right, and multiply that out over the number of years. But at the end of the day, yeah, it's the math, and it's pretty easy math to do, you just got to lay it all out. Speaker 1: Yeah, very true. All right, well great question, Tony. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast, and congratulations on being in such great shape as well. $45,000 on the house is, obviously, awfully fantastic. Whatever you do there, certainly kudos for that. Of course the team's going to reach out to you anyway, since you've submitted the email and has. But for other folks who are in a similar situation, that's why we share these emails, because if it's happening for one person, it's probably happening to another somewhere. That way, if you've got a similar question, you can run the numbers specifically for yourself by reaching out to Tony and his team at Tax Doctor Inc. You can find them online at yourplanningpros.com. All right, let's go to David. David says, "Tony, I'm positive that I have more than enough money saved to last the rest of my life. There's just no way I could spend it all. I'm not bragging, I just find myself to be in a blessed position. Is there any advice you'd give to someone like me, or can I just coast, financially speaking?" Tony : Yeah, I would say to David, not knowing any more than what you've submitted, I would say, and this is a little bit of a fun response, but prove it. What I mean by that is, congrats on the fact that you think you've saved enough, but maybe get some advice from your advisor, or someone else, put in some numbers to it just to see. Because one person might say, "I have enough to for the rest of my life," and that could be a million. Another person, it may take 10 million. You just don't know, because it depends on your spending habits, and what some of the things you want to do are. Then of course your longevity, and everything else. I would just maybe double check it. Get an opinion, and then if that verifies it, then I would say work the plan you've got, and then you could be, quote, on Easy Street the rest of your life. But maybe you might find something that you didn't think of, and you might have to rethink a couple of things there. Speaker 1: When it comes to situations like David's, always good just to find out for sure. He says he knows, and he's not bragging. I guess my first question, when I see stuff like this, Tony, is, well, how do you know for sure? Is it because you've done the math, and you've run it out? He may be right. Is it because you've sat down and talked with a professional, and you have a written plan and a strategy that you know you're fine? Or are you back of the napkin this? Now granted, I don't know David. If you're sitting on $40 million, you probably are good. Tony : Absolutely, yeah. Speaker 1: But if it's the age-old question of, "Hey, I've got 2 million bucks," or, "I've got a million bucks," or whatever, "I'm in great shape." Maybe, right? Tony : Maybe. Speaker 1: There's so many variables. I hope that you are in a great shape, and I would say, to find out if you could coast, just sit down and have a complimentary review done, and find out. Run the numbers, make sure. Stress test it for multiple scenarios, whether if you check out our prior podcast, whether something comes up like a medical issue, or something. There's just lots of things that could come up and derail you. Just have them stress test it, Tony. That's one of the things you guys do. You can run various scenarios in case he is incorrect or correct. Tony : We can, yeah. With today's software, on the financial planning side, you can easily take a portfolio, and run run the numbers, ask him a few easy questions on how long would you like to run this for, and your life expectancy type thing. Give me a rate, a good conservative rate, and the software is going to spit out and say, "Your chances of outliving your money are only 5%, or maybe it's 0%." In other words, you've got enough money, based on what you've told it, you are right, or maybe you aren't as as you thought. Speaker 1: Yeah, very true. Especially when it's complimentary, and it's easy to do, no reason not to get a second opinion on the strategy you have in place. Great question. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast. We certainly appreciate it. All right, let's go to Kate. Kate's got a tough one here. She says, "Tony, my son's 27 years old, hasn't landed a legitimate job since he finished college four years ago. We've been supporting him, car insurance, cell phone, that kind of thing. I'm not going to be able to continue to do this much longer; in a couple of years I plan to retire. How do I cut him off without making this a big problem?" That's a tough one, right, Tony? Because there's a fine line between helping and enabling. Tony : There is. That that's a tough one, and it comes a lot down to how you think. My personal opinion would be, well, a couple of things, I guess, is if he's 27, he's been out for four years. I don't know what legitimate job means. Is he working at all? But let's say that he is, or if he isn't, well then that that's a different problem, then you probably are enabling him, and not forcing him to find something. But if he just is working, and maybe not making the money he thought he was going to, or whatnot, then I think by helping him, maybe you're not enabling him, but at some point you have to have a tough conversation. Just explain it to him that we need to start weaning you off, or cutting this back. Maybe you do it in steps to help him out, rather than just pulling the rug out from under him. There are things that people can do. I tell my own son this is, there's easy ways to go make more money. One is just go work more, trade your time for money. If you have to do it to pay your bills, you'll find a way, generally. That's a little bit more of the tough love, I guess you could say. Speaker 1: I agree, Tony, and I think a lot of times, what happens to people in this situation is some people will come in to see you, and sit down for a planning process. They'll say, "Hey, we want to enjoy our retirement. Whatever's left over, the kids get." I think, to me, that's the healthiest approach. Others will say, "We want to leave them a bunch," and others will say, "We're doing something like Kate's doing, and we're doing a ton of helping." But at some point, you start to sacrifice your own retirement, and the success of your retirement plan. Maybe Kate's plan has gone from all this helping, has gone from 100% surety for her own retirement, her and maybe her spouse, down to 80%. Is 80% good enough for you? If you keep helping him, if it goes down to 70% chance that you're going to be okay in retirement, is that acceptable? At some point, we have to not help our kids to the detriment of our own life. Because what's going to happen is, Kate, you're going to end up on his couch at some point. It's going to flip. [inaudible 00:11:18] Right? Tony : Yeah, it's going to flip. Speaker 1: Then neither one of you're going to be happy. It's tough. Tony : It is. I've seen it. That happens, and I don't understand it. I see it with clients, and even some family members, that are still helping their kids, and they're 30 years old and married, and they both have jobs. It isn't like they're destitute. I could see if your child, and I would help my kid as well. Speaker 1: Yeah, we all- Tony : He falls on hard times, everybody's going to help him, but with some constraints, and some, maybe, rules, and whatnot. I don't think you want to let them get to a point where they know that, or maybe they don't know, but they just feel like, "Well, Mom and Dad's always going to be there, no matter what." Which we are, but most of us probably want to stay in the background, only help if you really fall on tough times. I think some of these young people, I don't know, I just feel like they're just freewheeling. I think they need to do a little bit more to help themselves. If, truly, he's in a profession, he's not making the money he wants. He's young enough, he certainly can go out and find something new, and maybe even retrain, go take some classes. Speaker 1: Yeah, and to your point, you started to touch on something there, and we'll move on to the next one. But also, does he know how badly he's affecting your retirement, Kate? If you're not being honest with him either, and you're just helping him, and not saying, "Hey, listen, we need to have a chat, because this is what it's doing to us." He may be, like, "Oh crap, I didn't mean to do that. Let's make some changes." Tony : Absolutely. Speaker 1: It's got to be communication in there, as well. Lots of things to think about. Great question. Tough spot to be in, Kate, but I think you're probably doing yourself, and him, a service by starting to cut this off, in some form or fashion. But anyway, always talk with the professional, make sure, also, again, another reason to run the review, Tony, to make sure that Kate's own retirement is not in bad peril from the help itself. Tony : Exactly. Yeah. Speaker 1: All right, final one this week. Laura says, "Tony, I like my financial advisor. I enjoy the podcast, so I've been listening. It's nice to listen to you guys. I'm reaching out because, well, they're hard to get in touch with. I rarely get phone calls returned, and I just wonder if my account is not large enough for him to pay attention to me. I've got about $350,000 with him, and I believe most of his clients are doing considerably better than I am. Is this a common problem within the industry?" Tony : In some cases it might be, but to dissect it a little bit for Laura, it depends on how much, since I don't know how much you're trying to get ahold of him, because some clients tend to think, in his corner on this, defending him a little bit. But just basically, if a client thinks that they need a call every week, every two weeks, just to discuss market conditions, that might be, and hopefully you're not that way, but generally, then they get mad when the advisor won't call them back. Speaker 1: Sure, that's a little unreasonable, because you've got tons of clients, but- Tony : It's unreasonable, yeah. But at the same time, he or she should, when you decide to work with them, be very upfront about the communication, how much of it is going to happen, and how often, because often that way everybody's on the same page. Speaker 1: How often you [inaudible 00:14:45] meetings and stuff like that, right? Tony : Yeah. You're just setting expectations. Speaker 1: Yup. Tony : If they haven't done that with you, or even if they have, and you're just talking about what I would consider probably once a quarter type of call, when you're getting together and reviewing things, even if it's every other quarter, so twice a year, then I think that they should at least be cordial, and prompt enough to, if not return the call, get your questions answered somehow, whether it be a quick Zoom call or email. Speaker 1: I would think, Tony, in a situation where, maybe the client's being a little unreasonable, and again, we don't know that Laura is, we're just talking speculation, but if a client is being unreasonable, someone on the staff is probably going to be reaching out anyway saying, "Look, we've addressed this conversation, or whatever. We just don't have the manpower, or whatever, to every single time. That's what the plan is for. We got to stick with the plan." If you want to schedule a review, that's a different conversation, I guess. But yeah, I think a lot of people find themselves in this situation with advisors, or they've been with a firm for a while, and unfortunately I think there is some truth to the size of the account. Sometimes it's not a big enough account for them to jump up when, maybe, a random call does come in, versus a scheduled one. Think about the size of the firm, Tony, you guys are what I would call a boutique firm, versus- Tony : I would say we're boutique firm. Speaker 1: Yeah, versus a giant big box with 35 advisors in a building, four story building, or something like that. Because that's what you choose. You want a small boutique firm. Some clients are looking for that, because there they do feel like they're a name, not a number. Maybe Laura's working at a firm where she feels more like a number. I don't know. Tony : She could be. If the financial advisor's doing, what I feel like they should be doing, is that when a client calls in, they may not be able to jump right on the call, but- Speaker 1: Of course not. Right. Yeah. Tony : But they should have a staff in place to say, "Okay, well, let's schedule a call for this date, and then let me know what we're going to be talking about." Then we jump on a call, and we do it. But I think some advisors, it is true out there, where they institute minimums, because it is a business at the end of the day. Some advisors have this stigma of, "I can't really make any legitimate living unless my clients have X with me." Speaker 1: Right. Tony : That, I think, is to the detriment of everybody. But I understand, because there are people out there that, and there's nothing wrong with it, because you got to start somewhere that, I want to open up a $2,000 IRA this year, and I want weekly meetings, and we want to discuss. Most advisors are going to say, "Well, that's just not profitable for me. Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not the right business model for- Tony : ... at the end of the day. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : Yeah. Speaker 1: That's the other piece of it too. That's the expectation conversation you brought up. Tony : Yes. Speaker 1: Not only when you go to sit down with someone is the expectations about the meetings, and how often you're getting together and discussing things, and the strategy and the plan, but also, is it a worthwhile business venture for both? I think a lot of times people are auditioning an advisor, they don't realize the advisor is auditioning them right back. It's got to be a good relationship both ways. Tony : It really does. When we interview clients, we basically, we'll sit them down in a room, by themselves, with a sheet of paper. It's got about 10 or 12 questions on it, and they'll just rate themselves, and we say, "We'll be back in 20 minutes." Then we come in, and start discussing, and I'm auditioning them as well. I'm looking for landmines. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony : I'm looking for, "Do they really have some pain that they need help with, or want help versus I just want somebody to talk to, type of thing?" Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, you can't help, literally, every person. Tony : You can't. Speaker 1: You'd love to, but at the same time, your business model is that boutique firm. There's only so many hours in a day that you can see people. Tony : That you can do it, yeah. Speaker 1: But I would say with Laura, $350,000 is not $3,500. Tony : No, not at all. Speaker 1: I would say it's a substantial amount of money, I think, to anybody. They should at least be getting back in touch with you somehow, and scheduling calls. Tony : Yeah. Speaker 1: Because I don't think that would be right. Okay. All right. Well, great questions and of course, obviously, Tony and his team are going to reach out to everyone, and have reached out to folks that sent these emails in. But if you've got similar questions, or you feel like you're in a similar boat, reach out to Tony and his staff, and have a conversation for yourself. Get set up with a time to come in for a complimentary review with the team at Tax Doctor Inc. You can find them online at yourplanningpros.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Google, or Spotify, which you can find at the website as well. Again, it's yourplanningpros.com, and you can drop an email if you'd like as well. We take some from time to time, and ask him here on the show. But either way, reach out to a qualified professional, like Tony, he's been helping families for many, many, many years. He's a CPA, CFP, and an EA, and he's here to help. Tony, thanks for hanging out, buddy, and answering these questions. I always appreciate your time. Tony : All right, we'll see you next time. Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely. We'll see you a little later on, in July. In the meantime, enjoy the summer, and we'll catch you later on Plan With The Tax Man.   Disclaimer: Securities offered through Avantax Investment ServicesSM. Member FINRA, S.I.P.C. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency.

Patrick answers listener questions about marriage prep, the violence in France, and how can Protestants be our brothers and sisters Christ. Patrick also shares the harrowing true story of when one of his own kids went missing Twitter rules have changed. What is considered a long life now? Which states have the longest life expectancy? Kevin – If a non-Catholic couple have kids and they separate, and then later one of them “gets right with God,” gets baptized and is back on track, does she still need marriage prep? Kathy - The Violence in France mentioned on Monday: How do we reconcile with our leaders saying that Muslims are peaceful to Mary and Jews? Rod - How can Protestants be our brothers and sisters if they are going to hell according to the Catholic Church? Tony - It is hard to be patriotic for a country that leads the world in abortion. Elsa - I am Catholic and I think the Catholic Church is NOT the only and true Church. Glass bottling plants forced to shut down, leaving 600 employees jobless amid Bud Light controversy Rudy Farias: Missing Texas teen found alive after 8 years Patrick shares the story of when one of his kids went missing and the terrible hours that followed

A million dollars is a goal that many people strive to earn for their retirement nest egg, but how far can that lump sum actually carry you? Today we will be looking at an article that breaks down how far a million dollars go in various states. CNBC Article: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/17/states-where-1-million-dollars-retirement-savings-runs-out-fastest.html Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Speaker 1: Back here for another edition of Plan with the Tax Man with Tony Morrow. We are into early February here on the podcast, and we are going to do a fun little episode here on where a million bucks runs out the fastest. We'll put a link to this article on the show notes, but this will be a fun episode to look at this article that was written just before it was written in 2020, and we'll take a look at how it breaks down different states for how far a million bucks will go. This is kind of a fun little exercise, especially for those folks who think, "Well, I need a million dollars, or if I don't get to the million, I can't retire." Well, a million might not get it done in some places, and it might be just fine in others. So that's the point of the conversation. Tony, what's going on, my friend? How are you?   Tony: I'm doing good. It's tax season here. February, always the coldest month for us, and so it's just kind of work.   Speaker 1: That's true. That is true. I teed up on our previous podcast we were going to get into the Secure Act 2.0 passing there on December the 30th, I believe is when it went through of '22. We still got some more stuff we're breaking down. We're going to talk about that probably on the next episode, next episode or two. So make sure you tune back in for all the changes there. Of course, as always, if you've heard some things about the Secure Act changes and you need to make sure you reach out to Tony and have a conversation with he and his team just to make sure, especially around the concept of RMDs. We'll touch on that. Just real quick, Tony, one of the big takeaways, there was a lot of stuff in the new Secure Act 2.0 changes, but they moved the age for required minimum distributions to 73. The short of it is if you've already started taking RMDs, you're stuck taking them, so just keep doing it. But if you were turning 72 in 2023, sometime early this year, you can now wait until you're 73. So you do have a little reprieve. But again, please double-check with your qualified professional before you take any action, and then we'll break down all the rest because eventually it's going to 75 and so on and so forth.   Tony: Yeah, it's going to be phased in. Yep.   Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll talk about some more of the stuff on that, but I wanted to kind of share that with folks real quick. All right, so let's talk about this fun article here. This was done by... Who did this?   Tony: Well, CNBC put it out, but yeah.   Speaker 1: Yeah, CNBC put it out, but Go Banking did the analysis. Based off the US Department of Labor Statistics. This is a breakdown of where, and again, we'll put the link in there so you can kind of see the color coding, but how many years would a million dollars get you in retirement savings in certain states? I don't think the top three are really shocking that are the worst for how long it's going to last. I imagine anybody could interchange them and think, well, it's going to be Hawaii, New York, and California, and it is. The top three are those. Hawaii with a whopping 11 years, Tony. So if you got a million bucks and you want to retire in Hawaii, if you got a longevity ahead of you, the million dollars is not going to do it.   Tony: Not going to go very far. And I love Hawaii and I go there every five years, and I would love to retire there, but... Well-   Speaker 1: You're going to need a lot of money.   Tony: I need a lot. It's just not going to last that long. And I'd probably go crazy because I would go...the island. But it is interesting because I think that million dollars we talked about at last episode about that, that's kind of that sweet spot. Everybody always kind of shoots for sure. I'm a millionaire and I'm good now once I have a million. And I think if you read through this article, it really gives some eye-opening things. It depends a lot on where you live and-   Speaker 1: And how you live.   Tony: And how you live.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: So I do think that these top three on the highest side don't surprise me. I think some of the other ones that are especially like Alaska and then maybe the eastern [inaudible 00:03:42].   Speaker 1: I expected Alaska to be high too, because you got to import a lot of stuff, right?   Tony: That's true. You do. Yeah. Yeah, you do.   Speaker 1: It does tend to be coastal. So when looking at this map, folks, if those of you decide not to check this out, we'll just kind of talk you through it. Basically, most of the east coast and the west coast fall in that million dollars won't go so far category. I'm sorry, with Vermont being the best of the high side. And 18 years, a million dollars if you're out in Vermont, will last about 18 years according to this. What were you going to say?   Tony: Well, I was just going to say speaking of the coast and then Hawaii, I always kid people saying that that's the fun tax, the sun tax, but that's where people like to flock to.   Speaker 1: Sure.   Tony: And so a lot of population and tends to drive prices up. So there's some reality to that. I do want to jump to the other side because my infamous state, Iowa, is number five on the list of the lowest places or where the money will go the furthest.   Speaker 1: Almost 24 years. Pretty good,   Tony: Pretty good. But notice most of those states you got for those, just listening, you got Oklahoma, Kansas, Midwestern to Southern.   Speaker 1: The Heartland.   Tony: Indiana, the Heartland, Tennessee, Arkansas, I mean the best one of course. But I believe that's Mississippi, right? MS?   Speaker 1: Is that Mississippi or Missouri? I think it is. I think it's Mississippi. MO, that's right. Yeah, it's Mississippi.   Tony: But Mississippi, it's not a place that I would think of going, but I mean it's a pretty good sized state. But I think the point of all this really is that depending on where you decide to retire, it's going to last you a lot longer if you're just taking this million. Cause I think they based this on the state's cost of living expenses for housing. If you're going to take that money and live off of it it's going to last you for quite a while.   Speaker 1: I mean, I was pleasantly surprised to see Georgia so low down, if you will. So 24 years basically for Georgia, which is a hugely popular state. Atlanta is a massive city, obviously. And I imagine that states that are probably interesting, Tony, because Atlanta probably is more expensive than Marietta, right? So the further away from the metropolis as you are in some of these states, probably the more affordable it goes. Michigan was on the lower part at 23 and a half years. Again, a pretty populous state, a lot of heavy metro centers. Then the states that aren't mentioned, they kind of fall into this range of 19 to 23, 22-ish. And that's states, Texas, kind of surprising that Texas falls into that kind of 19, that right around 20 years. That's where my North Carolina, where I'm at, falls into place. The Carolinas both fall around 20 years. So Texas kind of surprised me a little bit because so many people have been moving there. Now granted this is two years old, this survey, and that doesn't probably take into account the inflation obviously that we saw happen in the last year.   Tony: I think Texas, even though it's not the considered the beach towns in the states, but it is so large and there's so much-   Speaker 1: Massive cities. I mean Houston and Dallas are just... San Antonio's not massive, but there's a lot of people and they're really... San Antonio's a great place to visit and live as well. I have some friends there. So when you're looking at this kind of thing, you're kind of saying, okay, I've got this retirement goal in mind. And we talked, I don't know, probably a few months back about does it make it sense to move to a state that's maybe tax advantaged or that the cost of living. If you live in New York, a lot of people moved to Florida. So Florida falls in that mid-category as well, folks around that 19, 20 year mark. There's a huge reason why people moved from New York to Florida. And it's not just the cold.   Tony: No, it's not. Because I was down in Arizona golfing in November, and a guy who's lived there a long time saying they get a lot of Californians selling these massive real estate places and taking a ton of cash and then moving to Arizona, which it's not on the lowest end of the spectrum-   Speaker 1: It's around the 19 years. Yeah,   Tony: Banking a lot of money, the cost to live is less. It's still got the warmth and you don't have the beaches. I think that makes a lot of sense. But I think another thing in this article is for those that click on the link and read down, CNBC's got a good little retirement planning tool and it's highlighted about halfway down that really you can click on it, punch in a few basic things. You don't even need to grab anything. You just right off the cuff, and it's going to tell you how much you're going to need in retirement. Now, there's a lot more to it than that. That's when you need to get with your advisor and figure out, well, I'm going to be well short, what do we do? But it's an interesting little tool that most advisors, I mean, we have more complex things, but those are more inputs and more time. But I'd check that out if I were you, and of course the biggest thing that stands out to me, which we recommend too, is it's right in about the middle of the article. It says most investors are recommended to say between 12 and 15% of their salary, and many do not. It's down around, well, I get the 4% because that's what my employer matches. Well, that's good that that's better than nothing, but you need to keep going. And it gives you some ideas there in the article as well to a couple of tips, because-   Speaker 1: That's a great point, Tony. That 12 to 15%, somebody hears that and goes, there's no way. I can't survive, especially right now with the inflation we've all been dealing with. I can't survive on putting away 15% for retirement. What are you crazy?   Tony: What I tell him, I get a little sassy with him and say, oh, you can do it. You just have to re-engineer what you're spending your money on. And as Dave Ramsey's saying goes, I think in his book he says have to live like no other. So someday you can live like no other, but you got to take that to heart. You have to put this first and then engineer the rest of your life. But I shouldn't say all, but a lot of people do the exact opposite to get their life all engineering. Now I only got this much to say for retirement. So that's all it gets.   Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's some good points because it's certainly interesting to figure out what it is that you need to do, how you need to do it. And a lot of it comes back to, we talk a lot on here, Tony, about X's and O's and you like to make the joke that sometimes it's easy for advisors to say, well, it kind of depends and you don't get super specific because everybody's different. So we try to play devil's advocate and kind of go a little bit each way, but the concept of how much you needed a total nest egg really does play in the factor how you live and where you live. Because even if you're in the same area, so let's just go with a lower state, one of the states that was, let's say 23 years, you're in someplace like Indiana, for example, or whatever. And if you're living in Indianapolis and you're going out and doing a lot of things and you're very active in your lifestyle, it's going to be completely different than if you live in Terre Haute and you do virtually nothing, or you live in the middle of nowhere. Or even in my state here in North Carolina, living in Charlotte and doing a lot versus where I live in the country is completely different costs of living. So how you live and where you live plays a huge factor in how much you're going to need for retirement.   Tony: It sure does. And I'm going through it with really right now with my own son, because he's out in Denver and they're young, got married. Very, very pricey. And they're actually all of a sudden looking... Houses out there, I mean, for what they are making at the time, boy, they just don't get much. And they're looking at them back here in the Midwest where they're both from and they're scratching their heads saying, boy, may, maybe Iowa or South Dakota, somewhere a little closer to home in the Midwest, our dollar's are going to go a lot farther. And they're not even retired. I mean, they're 26, 27, they just turned 27. So it's not about just the retirees, it's about I'm not advocating moving and getting out of your state.   Speaker 1: Sure. Right.   Tony: It's something to think about.   Speaker 1: Yeah, you definitely got to factor all these things in there, and depending on where you live, the snowbird thing certainly plays into a factor, even people in Iowa. Sure. Right?   Tony: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, Carrie'd love to get out of here.   Speaker 1: Right? Oh, it's cold. So think about that. And that's one of the reasons why Texas, Florida, so Texas and Florida are in that kind of the same range on this particular article of around right around 19, 20 years, where Tennessee is around that 23 year mark. Those three states have been very, very popular the last couple of years because of the income tax.   Tony: Yes, correct.   Speaker 1: And of course, the temperature, the weather. And then now this, the million dollars, the length that goes, certainly makes it appealing.   Tony: It does. And what Iowa's done, because we're in retirees moving here, not that appealing, or even the ones that have been here all their lives and want to get out is Iowa's just passed a law saying that the retiree income, which is social security, and then pensions and stuff, is not taxable at the Iowa level.   Speaker 1: Oh, okay.   Tony: And Trying to keep people here a little bit.   Speaker 1: And some enticement. Yeah.   Tony: A little bit of enticement. I mean, the weather is a big one as you get older, to the negative, I might add. But all these states are trying to keep people and attract people for different reasons because as we all know, I mean, Iowa's going to get their money somehow. It's not income tax, it's somewhere else.   Speaker 1: That's the thing of if you were moving someplace like Tennessee just for the tax break, that's probably the wrong decision because they're going to get you. Or Florida even, so you moved to Florida, but just for the taxes, and you're like, okay the sun's a bonus. It's still expensive to live, and it's going to be more expensive to live in Miami than it is to live in Gainesville.   Tony: Right. Exactly.   Speaker 1: They're going to get you one way or the other, local level, salt taxes, as you know they're called. To your point about Colorado, a good friend of mine moved from North Carolina to Colorado, and he is like, oh, some things are really great. And he's like, he couldn't believe what it did to his car insurance and just tagging his vehicle. He was like, holy moley.   Tony: And that's the kind of stuff, I mean, that's direct cost of living stuff there.   Speaker 1: Exactly, and that affects your total income outcome.   Tony: It does. And that's the whole point of this article, and obviously it's a slant a little more to retire there, but it's something to think about. I mean, the retirees have a little more to think about than just like somebody my son's age who's just working there. But it is interesting.   Speaker 1: Well, and that's where a strategy and a plan comes into place. And of course, when you're putting that stuff together, you can strategize for some different things. You can say, you can sit down with your advisor, you can talk with your loved one and say, where do you want to retire? And we say, oh yeah, we don't want to live in Iowa. We do want to live in Florida, or whatever. Well, you can still work with Tony and start strategizing for that, because Tony, you got clients all over the country.   Tony: We do. Yeah.   Speaker 1: So it's possible to go through and start calculating and planning instead of just winging it. You don't want to just wing this kind of thing. So it's fun little article. Again, we'll link it into the show notes if you want to check it out. We covered most of it here, but certainly ask yourself that question, where do you want to tire?Where and how do you want to live in retirement can go a long way towards getting that whatever that total number is or that total goal. And as Tony and I said on the prior podcast, really the million dollars probably shouldn't be the concept. It should really probably be how much income do you need to afford the lifestyle you want? So as always, don't forget, subscribe to us on Apple, Google, Spotify, Plan with the Tax Man. You can type that into the search box at any of those apps, or you can just find all the information you're looking for at yourplanningpros.com. That is yourplanningpros.com, where you can check out the tools, tips, and resources Tony has on the website. Schedule some time to talk with he and his team and get started today. As I mentioned, he's a CFP, CPA and an EA with 27 plus years of experience, so great resource for you to tap into. If you need some help and you're not already working with him, reach out to Tony Morrow today. Tony, my friend, thanks for hanging out, have yourself a great day, and enjoy yourself. I'll talk to you in a couple weeks.   Tony: All right, we'll see you next month.   Speaker 1: All right, we'll talk to you next time here on Plan With the Tax Man, with Tony Morrow.   Disclaimer: Securities offered through Avantax Investment ServicesSM. Member FINRA, S.I.P.C. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency.

As we approach the end of the year, saving money on taxes becomes a bigger focus for many people. But let's broaden the scope out for this particular episode and focus on some of the most common retirement planning questions about taxes. We'll talk about mistakes to avoid and how a proper plan can make a significant difference in someone's tax savings. Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Speaker 1: Back here for another episode of Plan with a Tax Man here on the podcast with Tony Mauro and myself. Talking investing, finance, and retirement. We try to bring all sorts of different topics to you. This week it's going to be common questions about taxes and specifically maybe taxes in the retirement planning phase, not necessarily the working years, but we might touch on a little bit of that too. But that's going to be the main approach this week here on the show. And who better to do that with than... Well, a tax guy. Tax doctor himself, what's going on, Tony? How are you?   Tony: Thanks, man. I'm good, thank you. Yes, finished up... Well, officially the '21 tax season. And so, this is a timely topic because it's-   Speaker 1: The '21 tax season?   Tony: Yeah, with extensions just recently-   Speaker 1: Wow.   Tony: Yeah. But still people... And people trickle in all year, but now's the time for the rest of the population to plan for '22. And so, I think there's some good topics, questions here to discuss.   Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess that is true. Yeah. When you do extensions, boy, it's easy how you forget that, right? It's like-   Tony: Yeah, you forget it, yes. Yeah.   Speaker 1: I hear you say '21 and I go, "What? There's no way." But it's like, "Oh yeah, that was last year." And then it was... Most of us do it in April, but then if you did extensions then yeah, okay. And you know what? There's two differences here. So you just said most of... We need to start thinking about '22, and that's tax planning.   Tony: Excuse me.   Speaker 1: That's tax prep-   Tony: Excuse-   Speaker 1: ... that's tax preparation for the calendar year. But there's also tax planning and that is year over year, especially for retirees. That's where you can make a real difference in and often a huge difference in how effective your retirement plan's going to be. Because it's not just the annual thing, it's how to be efficient through multiple years in retirement.   Tony: That's right. And you have to think big picture on a lot of these things because it takes multiple years to realize the real savings of a few of these things we're going to talk about. At the end of the day, we always make fun of the government and at some things-   Speaker 1: It's so easy to do, though.   Tony: Yeah, it's easy to do [inaudible 00:02:01] Sam. It's there with his hand out for a part of your retirement money and you want to try to minimize that as much as possible. Because obviously, that means a bigger nest egg for you.   Speaker 1: I was talking with a friend the other day, he's a CPA, he's also a financial specialist now as well. But he was talking about, and he was being very honest, he said for the first half of his careers as a CPA, he was one of those CPAs that would say, "Yeah, defer. Why would you pay taxes now? Just kick it down the road." Absolutely. And he's like, "And you know what? That's our job. As a CPA, we're focused on the current year. It's a historical review of the prior year." But he's like, "But as I got more into the retirement side and the personal financial specialist side, it became more clear that I was wrong for a number of years." It's like, "No, we've got to think about taxes currently, but also into the future and how we're going to be efficient and manage that." So that's kind of the topic today. And I thought that was a great way to hear someone who's been in the industry for 30 years realize that 20 years into it, he's like, "Whoa. I got to make a shift." So let's start with common question number one, deductions. Am I going to have as many deductions in retirement as I did while I'm working? And under the current tax code, that's probably a big no, you're probably not. But if they sunset, Tony, and go back to what they were under the Obama administration, maybe, is that fair?   Tony: Yeah, that's a fair statement. We're getting closer to that. I think it's '25 or '26.   Speaker 1: Starts in '26, yeah.   Tony: Yeah. The sun setting starts coming back. If they don't keep it... Again, you don't know what they're going to do, but I would say for a lot of us, most of the time in your earning years when you've got debt and you have some things you can deduct, those eventually go away by default because you pay everything off and there's just not much there to deduct. And with the IRS's thresholds, you have to get over to itemize and then use medical and all of that kind of thing. You really have to have a lot of it to be able to deduct it. So a lot of times you may not have those deductions, which if everything else being equal means your taxes are higher even... I mean, before the politicians do anything. So you got to pay attention to that. And we'll refer back to that as we answer some of these other ones here.   Speaker 1: Okay. Well, let's talk about the fact that I think our society, the way we're set up, whatever the case, however you want to word that, we assume that our taxes are going to be lower in retirement. Of our generation, for sure, we're in our 50s. It's like, "Hey, you get a job, you go to work. You spend 30, 40 years there, you're not going to have a pension more than likely, but you're pumping into your 401k and when you get to retirement, you'll be in a lower tax bracket." And I've been talking to advisors for years now and that is just not the norm, but yet we still think it is. How often do you see that?   Tony: I see it. It's definitely not the norm anymore. I think that's what... When you're talking about your CPA friend, back in the day, that was the norm. It's like, "Well, the idea was kicked can down the road with the taxes, you'll be in a lower bracket because you won't be working, and then therefore you'll save taxes."   Speaker 1: And tax rates were higher.   Tony: Yeah, and tax rates were much higher. Historically, even though we don't like it, tax rates are very low compared to what they used to be. You look any charts back in the 60s and 70s and they were high even into the 80s. And nowadays, even though we don't have the pensions, people that have done well in the 401ks and are continuing to work, it's very likely that your tax rate could be the same or a little bit higher than when you were working. Depending on if you don't plan right and you have all this money flowing into your income situation that's never been taxed, now all of a sudden your income is a lot higher and boom, you're in a different bracket and you're paying more.   Speaker 1: And Tony, I think what happens here, here's the conversation about being in a lower tax bracket in retirement. I think what also has happened is we've kind of gotten to this mode of, it just happens kind of like retirement itself. I think we've been lulled into this thinking of, "Well, when I get to retirement age, I'm going to be in a lower tax bracket and I don't have to do anything about it. It just will happen naturally." Almost kind of like it's a given. And so, people might be listening and saying, "Well, I know I could get into a lower tax bracket." And I'm not saying you can't and that's where some... But you have to strategize and plan. It doesn't just happen naturally. If you want to be in a lower tax bracket in retirement, you're going to have to do some things to ensure that happens. Is that a fair thing?   Tony: Absolutely.   Speaker 1: Yeah.   Tony: Yeah, I mean you definitely have to do some things and do some planning or it won't happen. And then it's hard to change once you get that income flown in your retirement.   Speaker 1: Yeah. It's not like social security, like it's this given, right? Oh well, your retirement age, you also get here, here's a free... There's not like there's a bonus social retirement age tax bracket, right?   Tony: Yeah, that's right.   Speaker 1: You have to plan it. You want to be in the lower one, you got to strategize. Are all retirement accounts tax the same, Tony?   Tony: They're not. No. And I think that's where people kind of go arise. They just sometimes assume that. An easy example is you've been putting money into your 401k for 30 years and it's coming out pretax and then you decide to start pulling money out. None of that money plus the earnings has been taxed and you're going to be taxed on all of that. Versus, for example, you take some money out of your Roth IRA that you've been putting money into and none of that money is taxed because that was after tax money. And so, that's not taxable versus you've got maybe... You're at the age where you're taking social security in all this and part of that is taxed because of the way the rules are. So in my mind, three different things. There's no tax, which there's not that much of that. There's some tax, and then there's all of it's taxed. So you have to plan around this so that you can really take advantage of that. Because some of the mistakes I've seen people make and the biggest one is they start taking social security early when they have all this other potential income and they don't need it, they're still working and then they come to find out that up to 85% of it's taxed and on top of that they're reducing it because I'm still working and I'm not a normal retirement age and they're really giving a lot of money back. And so, I would definitely suggest you talk to your advisor or someone about that before you start taking money in retirement.   Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got to think about the types of accounts, the way they're taxed. We talk often about tax buckets, excuse me. About income buckets. Well, they're same thing, right? Tax buckets as well. Where do you want to take from? How are we taking from because what's the tax implications of those? Do we want to do conversions to lower some of our future taxable bill? And if so, how do we do that efficiently without bumping ourselves up in a tax bracket? And that's going to come into, I think, play into my next common question here for you, Tony. Is I have to touch on the fact that we see these ads, we hear these sayings, these slogans, we see these things in the mail we get. Get a tax-free retirement income, get a tax-free income in the retirement and pay no taxes. And how real is it? Is it viable? Is it actually real to think that you can get tax totally tax-free? And just what's to know here?   Tony: Well, I think the first thing is better do a lot of research. There's all kinds of things that people twist words and some of it may not be totally true, that's the first thing. But there are some ways to potentially do it. I mean, a way, and a lot of people don't realize this because they don't generally do it. But this is an area which you talk about tax-free bonds. This is just an easy one. Municipal bonds are not taxable at the federal level. If you get some from your state, they're not taxable at the state level. So theoretically, you can go out and invest all your money and that's municipal bonds, which are generally very safe. Now, they don't pay a whole lot of interest at the moment, but it's tax-free and you never have to put that on your return.   Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay. So-   Tony: That's one way.   Speaker 1: ... I guess there's a way... There's one way to actually make it true. I think where we hear this, Tony, is probably two ways and I want to have you address those. One is something like a universal life policy or something.   Tony: Oh yeah, I knew you're going to... Yeah.   Speaker 1: Yeah, that's usually one. And the other one is, like I just mentioned, so if you've got a million dollars in a 401k, so one might say, well let's convert all of that to a Roth and technically, it's tax-free in retirement. Now, you're paying the taxes now .   Tony: Paying the taxes now, yeah.   Speaker 1: But it is tax free in retirement.   Tony: It is, yeah. I mean, that's one. And that is a good strategy and we've used it before, is to, "Hey, let's start taking some money out now, converting it to a Roth, paying taxes now, but only fill up the bracket that you're in." Let's not go into the next bracket, so you got a huge tax bill. And just over time get it to a totally tax-free area versus again at retirement with Uncle Sam with his hand out there saying, "Give me some money." But you're still paying him but hopefully, we're spreading it out and we're doing it in a lower tax bracket than we think you'll be in. I think if you get into the stuff, especially with some not knocking insurance, because it has its place where you get some of that sophistication of, "Well, let's take all your money and put it into a universal life and then we're going to show you how to take money out of this tax-free." There are some ramifications there and you got to be very careful with the pitfalls and penalties and things like that with that kind of stuff. But it does have its place as long as you know that it's going to work for you.   Speaker 1: So there are some viable strategies, but again, it doesn't happen naturally. You got to work at it, you got to strategize.   Tony: No, you got to work at it, yeah. You really do to get tax-free income in retirement, yeah.   Speaker 1: Okay. And that's really the importance of working with a professional and it's not just a financial professional. So Tony, we know that there's all kinds of levels of financial professionals now. It seems like everybody can call themselves one. There's some that are just brokers only. They're stock brokers only, if you will. There's some that are insurance only. There's some that can do both sides, equities and insurance. And then there's some like yourself who are a CFP but also are a tax professional. Same thing I was talking about with the other person. There are some that are automatically I think... Because many will say, "This is a good strategy, let's do this, this or this." And then consult your tax professional to see how it's going to affect you. I like working with some... I mean, this is just my opinion, but I think there's some real value in working with someone who has all of this under one roof. Maybe it doesn't have to be the same person, for example, but they've got a CPA on staff or something like that. That's just my thought, but what do you think?   Tony: Well, I'm biased, but I do agree. I mean, at the end of the day, taxes is really where it's at. It all comes down to nobody wants to pay any more taxes than they have to.   Speaker 1: Especially in retirement.   Tony: Especially in retirement. And I think a lot of the advisors, when people will call me and say, "Well, my advisor told me to call my tax pro." And say, "Well yeah, because they don't want to... One, maybe take the risk of getting it wrong, but two, maybe they don't know." And so we want to tell you, here's the goods, here's the bads from a tax standpoint and you decide if you want to do that. But yeah, having it all in the same roof with us in that regard, that's what we do. We say, "All right, that all sounds good, but let me tell you about the taxes and how we have to work to do this and the goods and bads." And then you get to say, "Yeah, I still want to do that."   Speaker 1: Okay, and I think that's fair because whatever adage you want to put to it, it's not what you make, it's what you keep, so on and so forth. But in retirement, we're no longer having the paychecks coming in. We're turning everything we've built over the last 40 years or whatever into our money and into our paychecks. And we've got to be as tax efficient as possible because that's what's going to help us hopefully get that longevity out of the money that we're after, right? Because you're not making anymore, so you're not-   Tony: That's right.   Speaker 1: ... I mean, yeah, hopefully, you're making some in the market or whatever the case is and we want to keep up a little inflation and all that kind of stuff, but normal inflation at least anyway. So again, taxes are hugely important to the overall retirement strategy. One more common question, Tony, that I wanted to ask you. And that's the concept around the tax-free state. Well, we'll use California, we've seen this mass exodus from California for a lot of reasons, but one really big one is it's killing people from a tax standpoint, right?   Tony: It really is, the tax states, yeah.   Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, even Elon with all his money's, he's like, "I'm out of here." And he's got tons of money. So how viable, and let me put this in this way for you. How viable is it to say, I'm going to move from a high tax state, let's say California or New Jersey or something like that, to a state like Tennessee or Florida or Texas, where they don't have any income tax. I think if you're wanting to move to that area for other reasons, then-   Tony: That's right.   Speaker 1: ... it could be gravy. Would you move solely on that reason?   Tony: I wouldn't move solely on that reason because you got to take a look at, "Okay, well, how else is this state raising its money?-"   Speaker 1: You're right.   Tony: ... Everybody's got to have money to run the state, so it's-   Speaker 1: It sounds great, right?   Tony: Yeah.   Speaker 1: But they're going get-   Tony: It sounds great, But it could be higher sales tax, could be real high property tax, could be some other types of taxes.   Speaker 1: County tax. So think about Florida, for example. Yeah, but each individual county has different taxes.   Tony: Yeah, there's local taxes and things like that. And so, you want to take a look at that plus the general cost of living in some of those cities. Is it going to cost me more to live? And so, is that really going to maybe negate some of my tax savings type of thing?   Speaker 1: It's a little-   Tony: Iowa. OH, go ahead.   Speaker 1: I'm thinking it's a little more costly to live in Orlando than it is or Miami than it is in Cedar Rapids, right?   Tony: Oh yeah.   Speaker 1: It's just the hair.   Tony: Yeah. I mean, but we've had that in Iowa, not as bad as some of those real high tax days, but Iowa was always in about the top 10 highest tax states and-   Speaker 1: Really? Okay.   Tony: ... what they've done over the years and right later on... I mean, they say that they're making money from other sources, because that's always my thing as well. If you're going to cut taxes, which they've just done. So now starting in '24, retiree's income is completely exempt from Iowa Tax. So we, as a retirees, you don't pay any taxes here. Now, if you're out working and things like that, you do-   Speaker 1: Sure, yeah.   Tony: ... but yoru just retirement income. So that's kind of a break for retirees here from a relatively high tax state down to that.   Speaker 1: That's pretty nice.   Tony: And so, try to keep them here. Because I mean, the weather is not conducive like some of the... I call those, some of those states like Florida, that's your weather tax down there. It's-   Speaker 1: True.   Tony: ... some of those other taxes. But the point is that you need to look at some other things because just the income tax... Maybe [inaudible 00:17:09] of that-   Speaker 1: It's probably not going to make or break your plan, right?   Tony: Yeah, no. But like you said, if you're planning on moving somewhere sunny or I've always wanted to be in Nevada, let's say, and I'm going to move there. Yeah, that's kind of icing on this cake.   Speaker 1: But yeah, then let's go ahead and factor that into the plan for sure. And it might help out along the way. But yeah, I don't know that it's necessarily going to just make your whole plan. It's not the one missing cog in the wheel, if you will, in the machine. And of course, I was just talking with somebody the other day about Florida, and this was obviously even prior to the hurricane, but yeah, they gotten wise too. You can't just say you live in Florida now just because you might have a second residence. They want to see a lot of... They're making you jump through some hoops to make sure that you actually live there-   Tony: Yeah, oh yeah.   Speaker 1: ... to live there and long enough to claim that as your main state. So again, those are just some common questions around taxes and retirement.Again, the biggest one is if you want to have reduced taxes, excuse me, in retirement, you've got to plan for it. You got to strategize for it. It's not going to just happen on its own through a series of... I mean, maybe through a series of the right steps that you just did and didn't realize. Sure, it's possible. But like anything, the world's changed so much that... It just really does require strategizing and planning to be as efficient as possible. And that way you can also be efficient not only for your retirement years but whatever you might leave behind as well when you move on in that legacy section, you want to be as tax efficient to the kids for the most part as that. Of course, some of you do, some of you might say, "Hey, they can pay the tax bill. I don't care."   Tony: Right, yeah.   Speaker 1: So everybody's different. Tony, thanks-   Tony: [inaudible 00:18:47].   Speaker 1: ... for hanging out, my friend, as always. I appreciate it.   Tony: All right, we'll talk to you next time.   Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll catch you next time. Again, if you've got questions, folks, around taxes, who better to talk to than the tax man, reach out to Tony and his team at Tax Doctor. And they are Des Moines' professional alternative. Of course, they have clients all over the country as well. But reach out to them, find them online @yourplanningpros.com. That's yourplanningpros.com. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast, Plan With The Tax Man on Apple, or Google, or Spotify, whatever platform you like to use. You can find it all at Tony's website as well. He's been helping families for 20-plus years, boy, about 25 or so now, right?   Tony: Well, 26-   Speaker 1: 26, okay.   Tony: ... be 26 this year.   Speaker 1: So there you go. So reach out to Tony and get started today. If you got any questions, need some help, and we'll see you next time here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Disclaimer: Securities offered through Avantax Investment Services.  Member FINRA, SIPC, Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services.  Insurance services offered through Avantax Insurance Agency.

That career began in 2000 when he became a draftsman for a residential design firm in his native Wake Forest. It was here where he developed a love for historic architecture and an eye for detail. In 2003, he was part of the founding team for a design division within a structural engineering firm in Raleigh.Finally, in 2007, Tony established his own firm, Frazier Home Design. It was purely a one-man show until Tony made his first hire in 2010. The firm has since become a leading architecture and design studio in The Triangle, and today one-third of their work annually includes out-of-state designs.Listen in as Tony shares how he was able to build his brand, credibility, and network in the early days of Frazier Home Design. He believes that discomfort is the gateway to growth, illustrated in his penchant for taking risks and making sure that he only hires those who thrive in challenging environments. Finally, he speaks on using social media and evolving technologies to take his business to the next level.Sponsors:The Tile Shop - https://www.tileshop.com/Visit https://buildertrend.com/aft/ to get a 60-day money-back guarantee on your Buildertrend account!Pella Windows & Doors - https://www.pella.com/Events:Learn More/Register for Contractor Coalition Summit May 01-04 https://www.eventcreate.com/e/contractorscoalitionsummitTopics Discussed**:**[03:54] About Frazier Home Design[08:56] Building relationships in the firm's early days[14:42] Knowing your worth as a new company[20:50] Raising your rates[24:39] Hiring the right people[28:08] Keeping your culture strong[31:27] Training project coordinators[40:03] How Tony settled on his go-to architectural styles[45:19] Tony's favored social media platforms[47:45] Taking inspiration from other, similar designs[51:27] Adapting to new technologies in the industry[01:03:06] What Tony loves about his art[01:04:43] What's next for TonyConnect with Tony Frazier & Frazier Home DesignWebsite - https://frazierhomedesign.com/Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/frazierhomedesign/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Frazier-Home-Design- 124269034252174/LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tony-frazier-39578711Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/frazierhomedesigns/_created/Houzz - https://www.houzz.com/pro/tf6705YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnGRIgdiMuiKS7bal7IcOew/featuredConnect with Brad Leavitt:Website - https://www.aftconstructionpodcast.com/Instagram - https://instagram.com/aft_constructionFacebook - https://www.facebook.com/aftconstructionHouzz - https://www.houzz.com/pro/aft-construction/aft-constructionPinterest - https://www.pinterest.ph/AFT_CONSTRUCTION/YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzB4R_DHPVV1SPh7RUfR5jgKey Quotes by Tony:It wasn't about the name recognition at all. It was about creating better-designed homes and that takes more thought, energy, and collaboration within the office. [...] Name recognition followed those processes.Our toughest client—our best client—is somebody that is able to give us their vision, and has trust in us, and they allow us to take those designs and add some creative freedom: We're giving them everything they want in their house, but they're not leading the way for us. Those are the projects I love.

Veteran super rocker Tony Carey personifies rock ‘n roll. He plays keyboards, he sings, he composes, and he still has hair down to his shoulders! He was in the band Rainbow formed by Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple and today is a longstanding member of Mandoki Soulmates, the European super group. Along the way he's worked with Joe Cocker, Ian Anderson, John Mayall, Eric Burden and others. We do a Famous Keyboards Segment and a Songfest.My featured song in this episode is “Bip Bop” from my solo album Summer Of Love (2020). Spotify link HERE.--------------------------------------------   Tony and I discuss the following:Haight Ashbury during the Summer Of LoveWoodstockRainbow with Ritchie BlackmoreMoving to GermanyJoe Cocker and Michael LangEric BurdenMandoki Soulmates In the Famous Keyboards Segment we play and discuss:Gimme Some Lovin (Spencer Davis Group)Thunder Road (Bruce Springsteen)Good Lovin' (Rascals)Whiter Shade Of Pale (Procol Harum)Hush (Deep Purple)Light My Fire (Doors)In the Songfest we play and discuss these songs by Tony:It's A Fine, Fine DayFirst Day Of Summer If you enjoyed the show, please Subscribe, Rate, and Review. Just Click Here. “The Shakespeare Concert” is the new album by Robert's band, Project Grand Slam. It's been praised by famous musicians including Mark Farner of Grand Funk Railroad, Jim Peterik of the Ides Of March, Joey Dee of Peppermint Twist fame, legendary guitarist Elliott Randall, and celebrated British composer Sarah Class. The music reviewers have called it “Perfection!”, “5 Stars!”, “Thrilling!”, and “A Masterpiece!”. The album can be streamed on Spotify, Apple and all the other streaming services. You can watch the Highlight Reel HERE. And you can purchase a digital download or autographed CD of the album HERE.  Robert's “Follow Your Dream Handbook” is an Amazon #1 Bestseller. It's a combination memoir of his unique musical journey and a step by step how-to follow and succeed at your dream. Available on Amazon and wherever books are sold. Get your Complimentary DREAM ROADMAP with Robert's 5 steps to pursue and succeed at YOUR dream. Just click here: https://www.followyourdreampodcast.com/DreamRoadmap Connect with Tony at:https://www.tonycarey.comhttps://www.facebook.com/teecee68https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Carey Connect with the Follow Your Dream Podcast:Website: www.followyourdreampodcast.comFacebook: www.facebook.com/FollowYourDreamPodcastEmail Robert: robert@followyourdreampodcast.com Follow Robert's band, Project Grand Slam, and his music:Website: https://www.projectgrandslam.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/projectgrndslamStore: https://www.thepgsstore.com/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/PGSjazzFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/projectgrandslam/Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/04BdGdJszDD8WtAFXc9skWApple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/project-grand-slam/274548453Email: pgs@projectgrandslam.com

In this month's Q&A chat, I spoke with Phil Colgan, the Senior Minister at St George North Anglican Church in Sydney, and one of Sydney's most gifted preachers. Here's an edited transcript of our conversation. I kicked things off by asking Phil what he was preaching on at the moment.Phil: As we're coming out of lockdown we thought we'd do something that's just really encouraging for people and it's proven that way. We've been preaching on the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5. And I've found it an incredible joy, because I've been moved to think how I've seen the fruit of the Spirit growing in people over the 18 years I've been at St George North—seeing the way people have grown in love, have grown in gentleness, have grown in showing kindness to one another.It's been an incredible encouragement to reflect on the work of God's Spirit through the teaching of his word over the time of our ministry here. It's a challenge as well because Galatians 5 also has that verse 25 about walking in step with the Spirit or following the Spirit.Tony: Is there a fruit of the Spirit that you felt challenged about as you were doing your prep? I always find when I'm prepping to teach or preach something, God sometimes slips a dagger into my own heart and convicts me from the passage I'm reading. Have you found that?Phil: Well, it's funny. It has been the same couple of fruit of the Spirit that have challenged me every time I've read Galatians 5 since I've been a Christian, which is patience and gentleness. They are the two. And for some reason, whenever I think of patience, I can immediately have something I need to repent of within the last 24 hours.Tony: Oh Lord, give me patience and do it quickly! Phil, you are a solid and well known part of the fellowship of Sydney Anglican evangelicals here. In fact, I'd probably regard you as my friend who is probably the best connected amongst Sydney Anglicans. We're all part of this fellowship but you just seem to be one of those people who knows people. You're part of the central diocesan structures a bit, you get involved in the committee work, but you're also out and about and you know lots of ministers and seem to have your finger on the pulse.And so I thought it would be a helpful question to ask for the sake not only of people who are listening here in Sydney and are interested, but many of our friends all around the world who know about Sydney and its Anglican evangelicalism—if you were going to do a little mini SWOT analysis of Sydney Anglicanism at the moment, what would you are our strengths and weaknesses and opportunities and threats?Phil: Well, when you look for those opportunities and threats and that sort of thing, that's a helpful thing to do—though with something as wide and complex as a diocese I sometimes wonder if it is that helpful. Sometimes I think every church should be thinking about that in their local area, which is actually a distinctive of Sydney Anglicanism, isn't it (our congregational nature)?But I think our opportunities, our threats—they tend to be the same at every point; they just vary by degrees. And for me at the moment, the opportunity in Sydney for ministry is the opportunity of evangelism. We have the most wonderful news in the world and millions of people that need saving. We have this incredible situation of an Anglican diocese with a couple of hundred churches that faithfully preach Jesus, thousands of lay people ready to serve.I think that is a peculiar thing about Sydney in the Anglican world and that is our opportunity. But although some say, "Oh, the fields are dry and the fields are hard”, I actually think we are at a point where people are more open to the gospel than at any point in my Christian lifetime. Some are more antagonistic, but I think they're a small number who are represented in the media and so forth. In my part of Sydney, which is incredibly multicultural, I think people are just open to talking about Christian things. We're seeing loads of people connecting with us at the moment through our evangelistic efforts. And I think it's a great time.Most Westerners now don't have the cultural baggage of cultural Anglicanism or cultural Roman Catholicism. They're not immune to the gospel. They haven't been vaccinated. And for me, that's a wonderful situation. I think we're entering a great time. So that's the opportunity and that's the challenge in Sydney I think—it's not to lose sight of the main game. And to take that opportunity in the diocese of Sydney, the challenge is to mobilize our resources I think—to mobilize our lay people, be focused on training and equipping lay people, and challenge our lay people and our gospel workers to have the right view of this city: that it's a harvest field, and we are all missionaries and evangelists in the diocese in Sydney.The other issue is property. Can we better use our property to reach the city? Can we have churches to plant out in these massive growth areas of Sydney?But in the end, the challenge is: don't get distracted. Let's keep the main game, the main game, and keep putting that in front of people. That to me is the opportunity.Tony: What do you think we get distracted by?Phil: I think one distraction is thinking that everything is really hard and that evangelism's hard—because that often means you switch from bold gospel proclamation to defensive posturing, which I think is a danger for conservative evangelicals. We get worried about protecting our rights and protecting ourselves and that sort of thing. Or we switch to thinking that we have to apologise for the gospel and so forth, rather than just getting on with that task of proclaiming Jesus.Tony: Sydney's a big place. It's about 5 million people or thereabouts. Andf we have a generous kind of definition, there might be... let's say there are 150,000 born again, evangelical Bible-believing Christians in Sydney. If that's the case, by my calculations, we're kind of at the 2-3% mark, and then there's 97% of this vast, great city. I think of Nineveh, that great city in which there are 5 million people who don't know their right hand from their left (as it says in Jonah). Not to mention the many cattle of course in Nineveh, but not so many cattle in Sydney.Phil: A lot of cavoodles after lockdown.Tony: Yes, if it was being written today, Jonah would conclude with “And many cavoodles”! But it is a great challenge to think about just what a lost city Sydney is, and how much opportunity there is for the gospel. In terms of the threats to us or the weakness for us as Anglicans, do you have any reflections there?Phil: If I was to put down one threat, I would say that it's to respond to that great need by conceding too much to our world in a desire to be relevant. I think that's always the threat. And at the moment I think that is a threat for us, and I feel that temptation every time I preach. God is sovereign, but in my weakness, I do fear for our next generation. I wonder—have we been and are we preparing them well enough to stand up and believe and love biblical truth in a world that's now calling it evil rather than irrelevant, whether it's the truth that Christ alone is the way of salvation and there is no other way; or whether it's the truth on human sexuality, or the truth on gender and all these other issues.I see that as a threat. I fear sometimes that we haven't done a good enough job with that generation. And I think our real challenge is to just teach those truths boldly to help our young people (and our older people for that matter) to be proud of Jesus and his word. That's the word I use: to be proud of the gospel; to actually stand up and be proud of it rather than apologise for it. The gospel is the answer, even if our world mocks it.Tony: It is in many ways a challenge of unbelief. It's losing your confidence and boldness in the truth of the gospel and the truth of Christ and thinking that in some way we have to soften it, accommodate it, refashion it. And look, I understand that instinct very well. And it's why in a sense I'm sympathetic—or empathetic perhaps is the better word—to liberalism, because liberalism is that impulse. It's that sense that we're not relevant; that the world is moving on and they don't believe what we believe anymore. And so we need to jettison some of the harder edge stuff; we need to conjure a message that's more respectable, more acceptable, more comfortable in a way, one that we don't feel uncomfortable to speak. Or one that when we do speak it, we don't feel like we're standing out and saying something radical or revolutionary. That's the impulse. And I think we all feel that impulse in our hearts. And while we might feel horrified about the liberal theology that jettisons the resurrection and so on, and think that we would never go that far, we still feel the impulse that you're talking about—to accommodate and compromise in order to receive a better hearing; to be “all things to all men”.Phil: Yes, but being all things to all men is about how you live. It's about your actions. It's not about what you preach.Tony: Exactly. I think it was at the Nexus Conference a few years ago, David Williams had this wonderful one-liner. He pointed out that in 1 Corinthians 1-2, Paul was utterly and absolutely inflexible about his message. In fact, Paul says, I've got all these other people who want to hear this, the Jews want to hear that, the Greeks want to hear this. I don't tell them anything they want to hear—I tell them this instead: Christ crucified. And they think it's either weak or foolish, but that doesn't bother me, because God uses this supposedly weak and foolish method. That's his power and his wisdom. So I never change the message.So Paul is utterly inflexible on his message, but in his person, in his behaviour, in the packaging of who he is, he's flexible as anything, because those things don't matter very much. And so David Williams said: We contextualize the messenger; we don't contextualize the message.Phil: I think that's a wonderful way of putting it. And I think it actually captures the logical flow of 1 Corinthians.Tony: I mentioned Nexus just now. You've taken over from me at Nexus—you've deposed me in a boardroom coup, and have shuffled me aside and you are now in charge of Nexus.Phil: I am, I am. And actually we are doing a Nexus Refresh, coming out of lockdown, where Kanishka, the new Archbishop of Sydney, and I are speaking. It's in early December and praise God, we can come together as people in ministry in Sydney and be refreshed by God's word. And what I'm going to try and speak on is actually that it's as we think of the task before us—that's the most refreshing thing to be reminded of what a great gospel we have to preach and what a privilege it is to do it. That refreshes me far more than any day off or any holiday..Tony: Indeed. And that's really what Nexus is, for those of you who haven't heard of Nexus. It's basically a little fellowship of Sydney evangelicals, mostly Anglicans, but evangelicals in Sydney who are in gospel ministry—refreshing and pushing each other forward for this great task. So it's great that you are taking it on and pushing that forward. And I'll certainly look forward to seeing you there in December. When is it in December?Phil: Friday, December 3.Tony: If you just look up nexusconference.com.au you should be able to find the details there. Phil, every now and then, when I put out a Payneful Truth, you very kindly zip me a little email. And after I did that little series on apologetics a few weeks ago, you wrote in with some enthusiasm. We've kind of being dancing around that subject in what we've just talked about, but I know it's a subject that you are exercised on. What's important about apologetics or what's wrong with apologetics in your view?Phil: Well, yes. I loved what you said. And for those who haven't read it, I encourage you to read the two Payneful Truths that Tony put out on it (see here for part 1 and part 2), because you crystallized something for me I've been blundering around on for some time. I'm all for apologetics in some senses, but some modern apologetics makes me feel really uncomfortable. And I've been trying to work out why that is. And what you crystallized for me is that whatever apologetics is, and there are things that it is, it shouldn't be trying to make the gospel seem rational and reasonable to a person with a worldly worldview. That's the point I got out of it.You've mentioned 1 Corinthians 1-2 already. The wisdom of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. That shows you that as you preach the gospel, if a person hasn't had their world view transformed by the word through the Spirit, they are going to think it's foolishness. So it should never be our intention to make a person who doesn't come to trust in Jesus think we are rational.One of your categories of apologetics was what you call ‘positive apologetics'. And I found that a really helpful category. You said that there is some legitimate ‘positive apologetics', as we how good the gospel is, and show how the gospel makes sense of the world.But the thing is that the gospel will never be seen as good for you if you think this world is all there is, right? You can't make a person think the gospel is good for you if this world is the end and there is no God. It's only when you accept there is a God who is righteous, who created the world. It's only when you accept that there is a heaven and a hell that the gospel is good—otherwise it's foolishness. So any apologetics that's trying to say the gospel is good for you even if you don't share our view, I think has missed the point.All of this sent me back yet again to 1 Peter 2, which for me is the key passage of the scriptures on this question. And in particular 1 Peter 2:12. (I've got my Bible open on that page, you'll be pleased to know.) It says: Conduct yourselves honourably among the Gentiles so that in a case where they speak against you as those who do what is evil, they will by observing your good works glorify God on the day of visitation.And as you look at that, and then the flow of thought that goes through to being ready “to give a reason for your hope” in chapter 3, the argument is that the greatest apologetic is living a godly life. As you live out a godly life, you also set out the gospel plainly, as you give a reason for your hope. But what 1 Peter shows you is that they won't understand you. They will call you evil. And you'll reason with people (what you called, I think ‘responsive apologetics' or something like that). You'll reason with people, and you'll then try to show the rationality of the gospel, the historical evidence, and so on. And you'll always do that with gentleness and with respect—1 Peter makes that very clear.But someone who then doesn't repent and believe is unlikely to think you're rational and is unlikely to think you're reasonable. And that's where I want us to say that being Christian in our world should be a conundrum to people. On the one hand they go, "He's irrational. His logic doesn't seem to work. He believes in a guy who rose from the dead 2000 years ago and says he's the answer to everything. He's a bit crazy.” But they also say, “And yet he's so gracious. And he is so gentle and he is so loving. And he is so patient. I can't help wanting to listen to him.”But you see, when we try to remove the conundrum by trying to make it rational and reasonable in the world's terms, it's actually as bad as removing the conundrum by not being gentle, by not being gracious!Tony: That kind of dual way in which the world thinks about the behaviour of Christians and what they say, in the end it is only resolved on the “day of visitation”, isn't it?Phil: Although we pray they resolve the conundrum prior to the day of visitation because we give them a reason for our hope and they come to know Christ.Tony: Yes! In the whole discussion about apologetics and the gospel—which I've been thinking about a lot over the past 12 months—it has really come home to me how we've often we get it back to front. So often these days we spend ages on the ‘softening up period', trying to connect with people, gain traction for ideas, present some metaphors that might connect with them, find some common ground, say ways in which the gospel is good—all kinds of things to try to ease them up towards the terrible moment when we give them the bad news that this is gospel about Jesus dying for your sins and rising from the dead.It strikes me, we've got that the wrong way around. We'd be much better if we led with Jesus and the resurrection of Jesus (in light of our good behaviour and our reputation for being the kind of people who live differently). We then tease through their questions and answer their questions and respond and interact and explain, and do the responsive dialogue style of interaction—having told them what the gospel is that makes all the difference, rather than keeping that in reserve for some future point where we might eventually get to telling them.Phil: I think what you're saying is absolutely right in what I'd call the personal sphere. I don't have the answers for the public sphere where you only get a sound bite. And sometimes the sound bite you want to give is just to commend the gospel. That's why I'm very slow to judge anyone who gets lauded or pilloried by the media or by the world in that sense.Tony: It's a very artificial environment, isn't it?Phil: Yes, but I think it really helps if we have that attitude of what is first and foremost important.I had another thought about all this, and it's just a thought bubble for me at the moment. As you got to your final category of prosecution or ‘kategoria' as you called it—I don't think we do enough of that in our preaching. I fear that if we do too much of the other types of apologetics in our preaching—if we do too much apologizing—then you actually create a church that's in constant need of being argued into its faith. I think our preaching should go more on the offensive, be more prosecutorial.And that goes back to what I said before—we should be prouder of the gospel. And so I think more of our preaching should say, "Brothers and sisters, this is what you believe—isn't it wonderful? Look at how foolish our world is. Look at how much better our world view is than our world's.” And I wonder if we did more of that, then we'd prepare our people better to be not apologizing for the gospel, but ready to express the power of the gospel—to sort of crack through to the world. Anyway, that's just a thought bubble I've got. I've got to be careful though, it's not just about rationalizing my personality.Tony: Your belligerent personality, Phil? I think we always have to be careful of rationalizing our proclivities towards particular kinds of approach.Now, part of the format of this thing is that you also get to ask me questions. So have you got anything that you are wanting to throw at me at the moment?Phil: Well, yes. As I thought about that, I thought, “Tony's my book guy; he's one of the few people I know who is a genuinely published author”. So I thought not including your own books (or perhaps you can!) is there a book you would want everyone to read? What would it be for pastors and then for people in our churches—what would be the one book you'd say, you must read this?Tony: Oh, gee, that's a hard one. The one that's in my mind at the moment that I think everyone should read and come to terms with is David Seccombe's new book, The Gospel of the Kingdom: Jesus' Revolutionary Message—which as it happens is right in the ballpark of all the things we've just been talking about. It's David's attempt to try to summarize what the gospel is, and to connect together the gospel of the kingdom that is so prominent in the Gospels and the gospel of justification and Paul and all that kind of thing, the gospel of the cross and forgiveness. And the way he weaves them together using his research in Isaiah and in the Old Testament and in biblical theology—is just brilliant.Like all good books it's got its angles and its things that you scratch your chin about every now and then—but on the whole, it's excellent. He argues that the resurrection is the culmination of the gospel message—not just a denouement, or a kind of a footnote or a sort of wrapping up of loose ends. The resurrection is where it all comes together. In line with the kind of conversation we've been having, he argues that the resurrection is our message, the resurrection of the crucified saviour, who is now the Lord and rules all, and who calls on everyone everywhere to come to him for forgiveness of sins and to enter his kingdom and live with him as their Lord.That's our proclamation. It's the proclamation of the risen Christ who is saviour. And the way he draws and ties all that together and challenges the way we often think about the gospel just really brilliantly done. It pulls together a lot of the thoughts that we've all been having over a number of years in a really helpful way. So I'd recommend The Gospel of the Kingdom by David Seccombe. It will shake up and clarify how you think about the gospel in the most helpful way. I would say for pastors, definitely that's the book to grab and read at the moment.And for thoughtful lay readers? David's book is not written in an overly technical or obscure way, so also go and grab it.But if there was one book though that I was going to suggest that every Christian should read for their Christian growth—a book about the essence of the Christian life and how I can grow in it—I think I'd recommend Paul Grimmond's, Right Side Up. It's just a brilliant book about what the Christian life is and how it proceeds, and probably the most under-rated book I ever published in the time I was at Matthias Media. I think it's a book every Christian should read at some point—Right Side Up by Paul Grimmond.Phil: I've always been amazed it didn't get more airplay. It has always seemed a perfect book to hand to a new Christian as part of a follow-up course or to do with young Christians.One last question for you, Tony—what topic would you like to see a book written on at the moment? Is there something you wish either that you could have the time to write a book on, or that you wish someone else would write a book on?Tony: Okay. I'll throw out a few, because I've got a long and large ideas file, and some of these are things that I'm going to do, God willing, in the future. But if someone wants to get to them first and do it, then please do. I'll mention three. Is that okay?Phil: Well, it's your podcast.Tony: Hey, so it is! Why I'm I asking you permission?I have thought for a long time that it's funny that we've never really written an outstanding or widely used book that explains the gospel using Two ways to live. We've got tracts various things—courses and videos—but not a book. The closest we came was when Dominic Steele did his Introducing God course, and he turned the content into a little book that you could give away. But it didn't take off massively and didn't become a go-to evangelistic book. That's a book I'd love to write sometime, or if someone wants to beat me to it—go for it.The second book I'd really love to see written is one that I am going to target fairly soon. And that is all the research I did about one another ministry and the word ministry of every Christian. You mentioned before how important you think it is to train and equip every Christian? I think there is a significant book to be written about why that's important and what role every Christian has in not only the gospel, but in the word of mutual encouragement and teaching and helping one another within the Christian community. So that's a book I think desperately needs to be written. And that's is one that I'm hoping I'll be starting very soon based on all the research I did.And the third book, I'd love to see some smart person write is I've thought about trying but I'm not sure I'll ever get to it. I'm really fascinated by the connection between Neoplatonism, Augustine, C.S. Lewis and John Piper. I have this theory that running through the Reformed tradition, and especially through Jonathan Edwards and then into our contemporary Christian milieu, is a stream of thinking that owes a bit more to Platonism and Neoplatonism than it does to the Bible—especially to do with how desire drives the Christian life and how the Christian life is is about us rising up to the joy of God, driven by our desire for joy (or happiness), and that this shapes what the Christian life and Christian theology is about.That seems to have the smell of Neoplatonism about it. And I'd love to have time to tease out that connection. Because I think that while there's a truth there—as indeed there is truth in Platonism, and a truth in man things—when you make it your system, it subtly shifts the way you think about things. It changes the emphasis of your theology and then changes how you read the Bible. You see it lot in C.S. Lewis who was quite explicitly influenced by the Cambridge Platonists. And I think you also see it coming out in contemporary evangelicalism in different ways. And that's a book I'd love some clever person somewhere to write.Phil: Hopefully that person might be listening …Tony: You just never know.Phil: Well, I would read all three of those books, but I do think your Two ways to live idea is so true. There hasn't really been a standard give away book since the Chappo books.Tony: Since A Fresh Start. In fact, I had an idea—and maybe this conversation with you will spur me into action to actually do it. I was thinking of taking a little run of Payneful Truths between now and the end of the year, or maybe over summer, and using them to write six chapters of this Two ways to live evangelistic book, and send it round to everybody and to see what they think. Make it a community effort, and see if we can pull together a short evangelistic book that utilizes the strengths of Two ways to live, but in a way that works for now and is in today's language. Maybe we should make it a communal project.Phil: I think it's a great idea.Tony: All right. I'll see what I can do!Phil, thanks a lot for talking today. It's been great to catch up with you. Thanks for encouraging us and stimulating us as you always do. And all the best for your ongoing preaching at St. George North and your involvement in all the other things you do.Phil: Thanks, Tony.PSHope you enjoyed that wide-ranging conversation as much as I did. To get every edition of The Payneful Truth every week, consider becoming a subscriber …Some links you might like to chase up:* Information about the Nexus Conference in Sydney on Dec 3* David Seccombe's book, The Gospel of the Kingdom* Paul Grimmond's book, Right Side Up This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.twoways.news/subscribe

I had an amazing discussion with Tony Whatley about working twice as hard as the next person, never giving up, building a business from scratch, selling his business for millions, working for a corporation and now his new life of helping entrepreneurs. Check out his book "Sidehustle Millionaire": https://amzn.to/3fXEwmd Also check out his Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/365driven and his website at https://365driven.com/. This was a fascinating chat with someone who has really done it...created a business and sold it for millions. So many people act as if they've done it but rarely do you find someone who has and is willing to share their knowledge to help lift others up. Enjoy and thanks so much for listening!! Joe Tony Whatley CEO - 365Driven.com Author of: Sidehustle Millionaire Website: https://365driven.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/365driven/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/365driven 365Driven Faceook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/365driven/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonywhatley/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrETiHfxlI0Igei04hd1KVQ Podcast Music By: Andy Galore, Album: "Out and About", Song: "Chicken & Scotch" 2014 Andy's Links: http://andygalore.com/ https://www.facebook.com/andygalorebass If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts/iTunes? It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference in helping to convince hard-to-get guests. For show notes and past guests, please visit: https://joecostelloglobal.libsyn.com Subscribe, Rate & Review: I would love if you could subscribe to the podcast and leave an honest rating & review. This will encourage other people to listen and allow us to grow as a community. The bigger we get as a community, the bigger the impact we can have on the world. Sign up for Joe's email newsletter at: https://joecostelloglobal.com/#signup For transcripts of episodes, go to: https://joecostelloglobal.lybsyn.com Follow Joe: https://linktr.ee/joecostello Transcript Joe: All right, my guest is Tony Whatley. Tony, welcome to the podcast.   Tony: Joe, good to connect and thank you for having me on the show, brother.   Joe: Yeah, man, so you and I connected on Clubhouse and there is a tremendous amount of noise on the Clubhouse, as with any platform, once it takes off and you stuck out to me because you're not one of those people that are leaning against a rented Lamborghini or sitting in a hollow like a fuselage. So and when I listen to you talk in certain rooms on clubhouse, just something attracted me to wanting to connect more with you and learn about your story. So what I like to do with all my guests, as I like to go back, I think it's important for people that become successful like you, that the people that are listening to this and who will eventually watch the YouTube video of this a few days after I release this on the platform that they understand where you came from, because I think that's always really important to know that you just weren't handed all of these things. And this just with any anybody becoming an entrepreneur, it's not an easy journey. So can you kind of bring us forward to today, but tell us where you started? I know that you got into oil and you had a regular career, quote, regular giving air quotes for the podcast listeners. So if you could take us from the beginning, it would be awesome.   Tony: Hey, thank you for the opportunity. So my life grew up lower middle class to hard, hardworking parents, blue collar careers. My mom was a cafeteria worker in the public schools for over 30 years, serving kids meals. She had a really strong heart. She loved everybody, didn't and didn't dislike anybody. Even some of the people I disliked, she was like she could find the love in everybody. Right. And my dad, Vietnam veteran U.S. Marines, and after the military, he worked in chemical refineries here in the UAE, an area the rest of his career. They're both retired now, doing well. And I just learned the value of hard work and having to learn to be grateful for what I had in the houses that I grew up in. Three houses specifically in Friendswood, Texas, is really the lowest income neighborhood in the entire city, which had affluence and also had lower middle class, lot more of the affluence. But, you know, fewer of us. And we would basically buy the crappiest house and the smallest house in the neighborhood and live in it while we flipped it for a few years, while we were restoring it, making it nicer. And eventually those small houses would become one of the nicer houses on the street. And then they would go by a little bit nicer, bigger house, because me and my sister, which we're growing just like the house sizes. And so I just thought that was a normal life. I saw that there was a affluence nearby. I could get on my bicycle and my skateboard and run around and look at these big houses that had a lot of windows on the front.   Tony: I remember being a kid and I only had one window on the front of my first house. I grew up and it was the one that was a bay window on the living room. And I would watch my sister, who was a year and a half older, get on the bus every day, and I would wave to her just like my mom would be standing in the window. And that was always my view of the house, the first house I grew up in. And I just thought that every house just had one view. So I just thought that was normal. And I remember when I became old enough to go right around and leave the neighborhood and go see what was outside, I saw all these big houses with multiple windows. And I remember thinking to myself, I wonder what the view at that window looks like. I wonder what the view at that window looks like. And I could just envision myself running through this house and like looking through the windows and seeing if was a different view. And each one, as funny as thing is, as my wife is a realtor and sometimes I'll go do some showings with her and I'll we'll be at these large houses and I'll still look out every window. Even to this day. I'll still look out every window just to see what the view is.   Joe: That's   Tony: And   Joe: Right.   Tony: So I started to catch myself doing this. Like, why am I so fascinated by what's outside? Each one is like, oh, now I remember. Now I remember.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: So yeah, a little bit about me   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: And.   Joe: Yeah, so how did you get into so what did you did you go to college for some particular subject or degree or.   Tony: I went to college for the pursuit of the six figure paycheck. That   Joe: Let's   Tony: Was that was the only reason   Joe: Get.   Tony: Because because I turned well, my first job was McDonald's at age 15. I worked there through high school. Then I was a busser at Olive Garden. And then I became a waiter there because I was good busser. And then I went to work at a steakhouse where I was another waiter. And then I became a manager of this brewery steakhouse and Clear Lake, Texas, and. I turned 18 and it really wasn't enough money to live on just just working at the restaurant, so I actually started working in construction just like my dad and and working in Texas and fire retardant clothing with a hard hat and 95 degree temperatures. It only took me a few summers of realizing that that's not where I wanted to be. I saw these these men with collared shirts walking into air conditioned rooms on the same facility. I was like, well, what do they do? All their engineers like? Well, man, I need to figure out how to work in the air conditioning. Yes. So I just said, hey, if you've got to go get a six figure career, that's what we tell you. You could be a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer. Well, I happen to love cars. So I said, well, maybe there's something in engineering that I can learn about cars and I can maybe go get that six figure paychecks. I became a mechanical engineer and I worked full time during that whole ordeal. I paid for school myself and actually the first person and both sides of my family to go to a university. My dad was the first one in his family to to move to a house that didn't have wheels attached to it. And so it was the first one to go to university. So I really applaud him for not going back to his hometown after he got out of the military and just decided, like, I don't want to grow up there. I don't want my kids   Joe: At.   Tony: To grow up there. We're moving somewhere else. So he went where the work was and he facilitated that change. And I felt like it was my obligation to do, you know, a little bit better for him, for the work that they put in. Isn't that what we all should be striving to is trying to do a little bit more than our parents   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: Who struggled   Joe: Absolutely.   Tony: To put us in that situation? And so, you know, me getting that degree took me seven years. I was I was going to school at night time, usually between six and 10 p.m. and sleep deprived and broke and stressed out and actually had more gray hair in college than I do now. Is is strange and really a sleep and stress. You know, it really does has a lot of physiological, you know, turmoil on us. And my relationship struggled back things I just didn't have any time to dedicate to those kind of things. But, you know, I never changed majors. I never quit. I did drop some classes along the way because I struggled and my grades were suffering at the point said I didn't quit. And that was a testament to me is like, I'm going to see this through because I actually had friends that joined mechanical engineering program. Honestly, even when they tell you that when you start freshman year of school, they said only 20 percent of you are going to graduate. And then they said, OK, well, how many of you have a girlfriend or boyfriend or you're married and raise your hand? Remember that orientation freshman year? And I said, OK, well, only 10 percent of you will graduate. And they said, how many of you are working full time job to do this? And I raise my hand again, I said, well, only 10 percent of you will graduate. So I was like out of a 20 percent pool, 10 percent of that and 10 percent had really bad odds. But you   Joe: At.   Tony: Know what? I'm pretty defiant. And I said, you know, I'm going to prove them wrong. I'm going to be the one that defeats the odds. And upon graduating, it was only 12 people in my class that had graduated that that semester.   Joe: Wow, that's   Tony: And   Joe: Crazy.   Tony: I was the only one that was working full time. So I really did defeat the odds. And I thought that I wanted to go into automotive career. But automotive in Detroit just didn't pay nearly as much as oil and gas in my hometown of Houston. So I decided to just take the paychecks in Houston. And that's why I started businesses in the automotive performance arena, because I still wanted to satisfy that itch.   Joe: Right. So you ended up taking a full time job in the oil and gas world. What was that job?   Tony: Earliest was a project engineer role working for a manufacturing facility, we built subsea equipment and pay pay back then was probably 45000 base salary, you know, entry level at that time. So for context, this was around 1997, 1998, and I was getting home at four thirty in the afternoon, like most people with a 40 hour job. We started really early in the morning, but I get home at four thirty and I felt like. After going through seven years of hustle and grind and working three jobs, I was still a waiter working construction as a mechanic and said this feels like a part time job. So here I am with my big boy salary and my big boy degree feeling like, OK, I guess I'm on my journey. I'm on my early journey to go chase the American dream. And I've done it. And and I was just bored. I was   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Bored and I would be really honest with myself. I'd look at my small apartment and, you know, I bought myself a nicer car, bought a Pontiac Trans Am when I graduated. So that that was like my reward to myself.   Joe: Uh.   Tony: And I felt like this is this isn't enough. This is not enough. And I got a lot of energy. I got a lot of time. So I actually went back and waited tables at the restaurant that I was a manager of because I had promoted one of my friends to be the manager when I left. And I called him up and say, hey, man, do you think I could just come pick up shifts and bartending and waiting? He's like, hell, yeah, dude, you're awesome. Like, come back any time. I don't even need to put you on the schedule to come pick up one. And so for me that meant seven nights a week. I just I put the apron on and people lot of the people that were still working there knew who I was. And I graduated and that's why I left. And to go, why are you back? And it's like because I'm not where I want to be. Like, I can sit home and sit on the couch and watch TV or I can come back and make an extra 150 bucks a night.   Tony: So I chose to go suck up my pride and go do that. You know, his thing is I've never I've never felt shame for doing what was necessary to get what I needed to do. And I think a lot of times people put ego or self-importance above what they need to do. And, you know, I was fine if I was cleaning the bathrooms at McDonalds, I did it the best I could find, mopping floors. That is the best I could. And even as a kid, I go back and some of my long term friends like you just never complained. You just did what was required. Like football coaches would tell you something. You just do it. I've never been the complainer because I watched my parents work so hard and we literally were living inside of a flip house the entire time, and I just know that blood, sweat and tears is not just some a cliche phrase. And I learned from my dad like, hey, you know, he's a combat vet. Like, you should see what I had to do when I was 18, son,   Joe: Right.   Tony: You know, like like suck it up,   Joe: Yep.   Tony: Go do the work. Don't complain. You have it better than a lot of people in this world. And that's the mentality I adopted as a kid. And I grew into a young adult and I still carry that with me today.   Joe: So you're at this job, you're doing part time at the restaurant. And when do you decide and is the first side hustle that you start? Is it is it less one tech? Is that what it was?   Tony: Now, actually, my first side hustle. It's going to get really nerdy, but I learned how to build electronic circuits with resistors, a little bread boards and soldering, and I was kind of geeking out on this and I learned how to design a device that you could plug into an engine harness on a on a Camaro or a Corvette or a TransAm that would fool the NOx sensors and give you about 10 horsepower. So it basically would give it a little bit more ignition time. And it was a plug and play thing. And I knew how to design it and I built it. And so I would go to RadioShack back when those were everywhere,   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Buy all the resistors and I would buy these little circuit boards and little boxes and the wiring and I would buy the GM harnesses from the parts counter at the local Chevy dealership. And I get home and I would bust out my little kit and I would solder things and it would take me about take me about an hour to build each one of these units. And I had about thirty dollars in parts. I can sell over 75 bucks. And so it didn't scale very well, obviously, because there was only a limited market, you know, I mean, hundreds of people that maybe wanted to buy that. And I can only build two or three a night without running at a time. And so that was my first online business. I actually built a little one page landing page is   Joe: Mm   Tony: What we   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Call it now. But it was actually that's all my capability was back then.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And I sold I mean, I could sell six or seven a week and it was like good beer, money or aside, money was better than waiting tables, to be honest, because I could still make the same amount of time, but I could be at home. So that allowed me to leave the restaurants. And then I started building Web pages. I taught myself how to code HTML about really simple Web pages and do graphic design with Photoshop and take some good photos and build Web pages. Because I started that. A lot of people out there, a lot of automotive performance shops and manufacturers didn't have Internet presence at that time because they didn't have a website. So it's like, well, shit, I could trade my skills for car parts. So it's like a barter system is like   Joe: Right,   Tony: I can get free car parts   Joe: Right.   Tony: Of a website. And that funded my car and my racing hobby. Right. And so I got known for building these little simple one to three page websites, which I would have to basically layout on Photoshop visually first and then slice them and make the little buttons and like re rebuild those slices into like what looked like a Web page on the. There is a whole lot harder than it is nowadays and I probably got 100 of those websites over a period of two years. And so I got known as the guy that could build car stuff websites and I would get paid or I would trade car parts. And I was hanging out on other communities at the time and they weren't being managed very well. You know, they were they're not paying their server bills. Things were getting crashed. And sometimes all the content we create would be gone. You know, after you built all this, how to articles and you're writing all the stuff that's free of user generated content. And and finally we approached the owner of that Web site and we said, hey, we see you've got advertisers. We know how much you charge because some of my friends, advertisers have built their websites like, why aren't you paying your server bill? It's like it's like three hundred dollars a month, like what's going on. And rather than take that as constructive feedback from some of his best supporters, like a group of us, he said, well, if you guys think you can do a better job, go start your own.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: And it never even was a thought in my mind until he said that he challenged me again, like you don't challenge me. I'm the kind of person if you challenge me, I'm going to go do it. I'm going to prove you wrong. And so I said, well, man, I could build websites and I don't know much about servers, but I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to load some software on there into a server. That's pretty easy. If I could read a how to. And so that's what we did is like, you know, two of us started a website that was at least one tech. That was November 2001. So 20 years from now and this year. And we just started as a hobby. Dude, it's like, you know, the Set-aside Kim, it's not reliable. Let's just go start our own place to hang out. And my partner, John and I, we just thought, you know, if we can make 500 dollars a month, which is the Karno to the Trans Am I had and the Karno to the Camaro SS that he had. So that would be pretty cool to be like we would have a free car just to hang out and a place to talk about cars. And I've got a big boy job and a salary and you've got your own too. And we don't need this and it's just something we want to have fun with. And I like to illustrate that because, you know, you know, shocker.   Tony: Yeah. That thing went on to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in profit. And we sold it for millions in 2007, but was never intended to make millions of dollars. You know, a lot of people are like, oh, did you were you a visionary? And could you stop this? And it's like, no, we just wanted to make five hundred dollars a month. But the main difference, why we became the number one in the category and why we really dominated that entire automotive form seemy we we set so many bars and taught those other forums and the BMW sectors and the the Porsche sectors, we taught them how to monetize the audience. We, we taught them how to build a strong community and attract advertising revenue. So I had clients like Chevrolet and Cadillac and Goodyear and big name brands that were paying me to advertise on my website. So the main difference is that we treated it like a business. What started as a hobby, we started seeing real dollars come in and within within six months we're making 10000 dollars profit a month and we're like, whoa, I think we need to go get one of those. What are they called an LLC or I think we need to go do that. And I think we may need to create a separate bank account instead of just paying ourselves   Joe: Mm   Tony: Like in   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Our personal account, like. So I love to share that because I want people understand that you don't have to have all the answers. You don't have to be the best entrepreneur ever. You don't have to overdose on YouTube and podcasts and reading books and attending seminars. You've got to just start you just   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: Got to start and you're going to improve with time.   Joe: Yeah, so the important things I want to touch upon about this before we leave the subject about Ellis one tech is how did you get the advertisers? Did you actually one of you go out as a salesperson, whether it was phone calls or in person, or did they actually care about you and come to you and say, hey, we heard about your site, we want to advertise.   Tony: And this is a little bit going back to we hear about personal branding all the time, right? Nowadays, it's   Joe: You   Tony: Like   Joe: Know.   Tony: The buzz, personal branding. You've got to build a personal brand. Well, I was already doing that, and so was he, because we were active contributors to an existing community. So to put that in today's context, we have Facebook groups, you've got online communities. Go join those communities and actually be a contributing, valuable member. That's always helping people by answering their questions and giving encouragement and giving advice and sharing your resources and sharing your network. And then you start to build that personal brand of being someone that creates value rather than asking for all the stuff. And whenever it comes time for you to go launch your own community or write a book or launch a podcast or whatever, that's your side of the fence. Guess what? You're going to have a really strong group of supporters of, you know what, this person I like them because they're always helping and they've always never asked me for anything. So here's the thing they're finally asking me for. I'm going to go support that. And that's the way it worked. And I didn't understand that. It's just my nature to be that person. I'm the person that I follow on social media or a forum or anything that I'm spending time on. If I see somebody ask a question that I know the answer to, I'm not going to be. The person goes, well, you know what? Somebody else can answer that because I don't have time or I'm just super important. And   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: Oh, that's too trivial of a question for me to answer. I'll let some beginner answer that one for them. Know, guys, if I'm scrolling and I actually see someone that needs help, I respond. If I have the time, I respond and and it takes me a few seconds. But those few seconds of me investing into that pay dividends. If there's a few seconds here, a few seconds or a few seconds there, and people start to see because what you don't understand is on a social community, especially on the Internet, is that thousand people will see that response over a period of time. Let's say you're in a Facebook group and somebody asks a really good question and you happen to have the answer, even if you think it's trivial or a beginner. But you answer it, thousands of people will see that exchange of information. They will see who asked the question, they will see who answered the question. And if they start to see this pattern showing up over and over, hey, Tony is always helping people. He's always answering questions. You don't think that's a building you some kind of a personal brand capital that you'll be able to use later on if needed, because you may never deploy that, but if needed, it's going to be there for you. So, you know, that was how we built the advertisers because we were helping the manufacturers on other sites by answering some of the technical questions.   Tony: I would buy those parts. I would install those parts. I knew how to. I would give the good and the bad of it and do a little review of those things. And we just answered questions on Web sites. And when it came time to go launch our own website, we were such contributors that they're like, you know, we're going to go see what they're doing, what's what's that's about. And we'd already established relationships with people who are willing to advertise that we actually had ten advertisers in the first week. And I was not the cold caller. My partner, John, he owned a recruiting, a technical recruiting agency, and he loved to call people on the phone. I was like, that is not me. I will build the websites. I will create the graphics, I will set up the servers. I will run things at a technical level like an engineer. And I'm a project manager by trade. By that point is like, oh, I'll plan things out and execute. And he was the one I was going to make the calls. I was OK emailing, but I still even to this day, I don't like making cold calls. And I don't I just don't.   Joe: All right, so the timeline now is you're doing your day job project, managing in the oil and gas arena, and you have this website with your friend and you are selling advertising, you're building. And it's basically if it if it looked the way it did, then that it does now. It's literally a forum that you guys built. But   Tony: Yes.   Joe: Now it's it's probably expanded. Where I see it has the marketplace and it has all these other pieces of it that's helping to build that whole infrastructure on that site.   Tony: Yeah, definitely, we we had access to all the activity logs of the forms that we created so we could see the response of the individual categories that we put in the community and the classified section. We were actually one of the first ones to do a class of five sections in a forum and an automotive forum, especially because we realized that hotrods have used parts to sell and they always want to upgrade or they're looking for a better this and that. So we put this classified in there so people can list their used parts, not new parts, because if they want to sell new parts, they need to be an advertiser. But the used parts, we're fine. And we saw that that really increased the the longevity of their visits by about 40 percent. And just give you guys a context of how busy this site was. On average, we had about 100000 unique visitors per day.   Joe: Same.   Tony: So. So if you're thinking about a speed shop or a car dealership or anything like that, imagine with a hundred thousand people walking through your front door every single day and spending an average of about 20 minutes, looks like that's how we were able to generate the advertising revenue because we had the data logs, we had the Google analytics and we said, hey, what are you guys spending on magazines and television ads? And they go, We're spending 5000 for a half page ad. And this automotive magazine, OK, cool that the automotive magazine has a circulation of about 250 copp, 250000 copies per month. We see that in two and a half days. And we're going to charge you 10 percent of what they charge. And they were like, whoa, like this is a no brainer. And said, even better, you don't have to give us content 30 days in advance ahead of publication because there's that waiting period for publishers to print magazines   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And they have to have the content editors and make it all look pretty and put it all in the pages and number of the pages. And I said, so if you wanted to do and unveil of a product, you could actually show up that day and your representatives could log in with their account and post a video or something that they've created that day. And you could get real time feedback from the people who see it and give you questions and maybe even pull out their credit card. So, you know, forums and things like the things I created, you know, we were really were the the commercial demise of magazines in that regard. And we've seen the magazines, the publications struggle. But here's the thing. As much as I love magazines and I was a contributing editor for most of the automotive magazines for over a decade, what they failed to do was adapt. They had the brand name, they had the readership, but they were like, you know, we are super important and we're the media and we are magazines and nobody's ever going to replace magazines. And we're just super awesome in that forum stuff. That's just a waste of time Internet fad. And really, this is the kind of conversations that we would have with these publishers, say, hey, we're trying to partner up with you. How about we build out your forum and you've got the audience base? You could start mentioning it in your magazines and, you know, get them to drive to the forum and we can help you monetize that. And they're like, oh, no, we're not interested in that. Our business model is public catering and our ad rates are much higher than yours. So we make a lot more revenue than you and guys like me put them out of business. Guys like me sold my brands for millions of dollars when they went bankrupt. So that's a good lesson and adaptability and understand that you have to go where technology's telling you to go.   Joe: And same with the newspapers, right? They didn't move   Tony: Oh,   Joe: Quick   Tony: Yeah.   Joe: Enough. Same thing. Yeah,   Tony: They have the audience   Joe: I   Tony: And   Joe: Know.   Tony: They don't use it.   Joe: It's crazy.   Tony: The   Joe: Ok,   Tony: Men had it.   Joe: So I don't want to harp on this subject too long, but I want to make sure that the audience understands the the exit route and how that happened out of this. And so still, at this point, you still have a dual career, right? You're still working and you still have this website. It wasn't like this Web site took off so much that you decided that, OK, I'm not doing the day job anymore.   Tony: Now, that's one of the things people ask me is why didn't you quit your job? You know, when we were really the last two years that we're on this website, we're making about hundred thousand a year profit and. People are like, well, why don't you quit because at that point, my job was probably making 150, 175 range and I said, well, I also work offshore. I did a lot of offshore construction. So sometimes I was gone 28 days, sometimes with Internet, sometimes without. And so me being a project manager and engineer, I was very well adept at writing processes and procedures and systems that other people could follow. That's what I did for a career. And I said, I don't need to fire myself. So how can I create processes and systems to be able to hand these to other people that can do these in my absence? Because I don't can't guarantee if I'm going to be there or not. And so that's what I did, is we started to build a team at about 75 people on the team and we paid them in perks and free car parts and sponsorships and sometimes, you know, ten, ninety nine dollars just to do certain tasks. And that's what I did, is I fired myself. And what that did is allowed me to use my website as a consumer now. So I get to be at the same ground level and see what the problems were and what we could improve on and how we can add more features to attract more eyeballs and more time on screen.   Tony: And a lot of the things that Facebook and Instagram do nowadays, we were doing a long time ago. We just had to do it manually versus, you know, with A.I. So that's what we do, is we try to stay focused on how can we increase engagement, how to increase eyeballs, how to increase time on screen, and what was the hot topics and what are the things that we can do to create content that was going to keep them coming back as the value proposition that needed exist for them to be entertained or get some information. And there's a reason my website is still existing and I sold it. And still it is still the number one General Motors website to this day. It's been 20 years. But the thing is that I didn't quit the job because I didn't need to. And it goes back to that scarcity mindset that I grew up with, that if I can work the career and make, you know, 150000 plus like, why would I quit that? Because, one, we were the top of the market share. We're number one. And they're always trying to people trying to take us down or literally hundreds of copies of our website, always trying to take us down. But we are way ahead of these people. Right. And so I had the market share me working one hour a day versus eight hours. There was not going to ATX my revenue. It wasn't going to increase revenue at all. I had the market share.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: So the hours versus multiplication just wasn't there. Right. I was realistic about that. I could have been lazy and played PlayStation at that time or Xbox 360 and built cars and done nothing but. But why would I do that? Is like in I wasn't where I wanted to be at the time, so I was OK stacking money, working to career that also I had to struggle to get that engineering degree. And for a long time I felt like I didn't want to waste that effort. You know, I built it. I spent this time and investment and the hardship I explained earlier and I said, you know what? I don't want to waste my degree. I was pursuing the corporate executive path in oil and gas eventually. So I was very good at my career and I was very good at entrepreneurship at the same time. And I always find that was fascinating because I I saw my entrepreneur friends on one side of the fence and I saw my employee friends on the other side of the fence. And the mindsets are completely different between the two. And I would try to cross over. So I was what you would call an intrapreneur, someone who's an entrepreneur that works within a corporation to try to always enhance, improve, evolve. And I was always met with resistance, especially the larger the company names game. I was working for major oil companies in my later career. I mean, I left in 2015 and it was always like, hey, if it isn't broke, don't fix it. You know, this is the way we've always done it. Like all these things that   Joe: Mm   Tony: Make   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Corporations collapse.   Joe: Same old thing, yeah.   Tony: Same thing over and over and over. And it drove me nuts. And but yeah, that's that's why I never quit, man. I was good at doing both.   Joe: Ok, so how did you how did the approach happen to buy the website?   Tony: And that's a funny one, because at the time, very few people understood the amount of volume and dollars that was coming through a business model like that, because they just thought, oh, it's a cool car side. People are hanging around and making, you know, talking about cars. They're probably making, you know, 50000 a year doing this. You know that that's probably what they're thinking.   Joe: And   Tony: Nobody   Joe: I have   Tony: Knew.   Joe: To I have to make the point that when you did this, it was hard to do what you did. It was not the drag and drop and all of   Tony: Uh.   Joe: That stuff. It was not easy because I grew up I was telling a story the other day. I used to teach companies how to use an Internet browser like   Tony: Oh, yeah,   Joe: I   Tony: You   Joe: If   Tony: Know   Joe: I'm old   Tony: You   Joe: Enough   Tony: Know,   Joe: That   Tony: We're from   Joe: The   Tony: The same era.   Joe: Well, I'm probably older than you. But anyhow, you you did this at a really hard time. And when you're talking about the you know, the construction of the site and then on top of it being smart enough to keep all of the logs and Google analytics, I mean, it's hard to use today. I can't even imagine what it was like when you were trying to pull the data out when you did it. So I just wanted to make that point. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I think people need to understand   Tony: Now.   Joe: That this you have to put it into the context of when it happened. And it was not easy at the time that you did it.   Tony: Yeah, yeah. For context, I sold the website in 2007 and I was 34 and multimillionaire and Facebook and Instagram came out two years later.   Joe: There you go.   Tony: See, so everything that you see now, easy, like I could just do a video and   Joe: The.   Tony: I could do targeted ads and I can find all these people like we didn't have that we had we had to rely on joint ventures with media and racing events and person type events to be able to to really build the snowball of momentum.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: There was no like buying targeted ads. And it's super easy nowadays. Like, really, there's the excuses nowadays for entrepreneurs to not have success is like it just makes me laugh. It's like, come on, it's never been easier. The information has never been easier to find. All the stuff is being shared nowadays, which we had to go learn ourselves the hard way. And, you know, so the approach going back to the question of the approach. So it wasn't uncommon for people to casually email us saying, hey, you think about selling your website and. We never really thought about it, to be honest, because we're doing pretty well. We didn't need to sell it and we were really taking a lot of the profits, rolling it back in the company to make it grow because we had careers. And so they would always just just out of curiosity, once someone was, hey, would you like to sell your website? We always would entertain the question. We would say, well, what do you think it's worth? Because we're curious ourselves. Like we   Joe: All   Tony: Didn't know anything about   Joe: Right.   Tony: Valuation.   Joe: All right.   Tony: Like, what do you think it's worth? Like what's your offer? And most of it would be like, you know, I was thinking like Dr. Evil. We know when he talked about the one million dollars like this and it was like it. Going to go watch that movie if you haven't. You know what I'm talking about, but they'll be like, how about a hundred thousand dollars?   Joe: Right.   Tony: Thinking like, man, we sold advertising packages for bigger than that, you know, like, do you want to buy an ad package or do you want to buy the website?   Joe: Right.   Tony: You know, and and it just shows you that they had no clue. And that probably happened a dozen times over a period of quarters. And we just kind of laughed about it like they don't know. And we're not going to tell them what we're making because it's just they just have no clue. And and this is one company came in and they their eventual buyers were a little bit different in their approach. And they said, hey, we're looking at acquiring the top level forums and each brand marquee. We've already bought this one, this one, this one and this one. And all of those brands we were well recognized with, like it was the best BMW side, the best Volkswagen site, like top level names on par with the one I'd built for General Motors. I was like, whoa, if those people sold, then maybe there's some there's something to this one. Right.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: I remember having this conversation with John. And as a man, we're kind of getting long in the tooth on this. I want to go build on some different projects. I want to do something different. And, you know, what do you think? And he's like, we're both on board. Like, you know, if they make us this offer and we came up with a number. Right. And I said, if they come up to this and we can negotiate it, I think we both agree that will sell as I call. So we responded back and said we'd entertain this offer. You know, what kind of questions would you like answered? And they actually asked if they could put their Google Analytics pixel into our website so they could see for themselves if we're full of shit or not. I said, OK, no problems. I'll put it in there to help them put it in there. And then about two weeks later, they called back and they said, we're at it, have a discussion with you guys about the moving forward. And I said, OK, cool. And so their initial offer was double our number that we had come up with in our mind.   Joe: Oh, my gosh.   Tony: And we're like, oh. So we had to contain our excitement, first of all. And act like, oh, OK, well, we'll consider   Joe: Right.   Tony: That we're going to have a talk about that and we'll get back to you. And the first thing I said is like, John, we need a lawyer, we need it. We need to get an attorney. That's a good with M&A and we need to have some conversations with him on these early contracts, negotiation things. And of course, luckily, he had a good friend of his that specialize that in Chicago. And we got on the phone we talked a couple of times, went through some details of the preliminary offer. And he's like, so you're going to counter right? Or like, well, should we? And he's like, yeah, there are first offers, always the lowest   Joe: Mm   Tony: Offer,   Joe: Hmm.   Tony: Like, what do you want to make? And so we said, well, what about this? No, it's like worst they can say is no. And so we put that back out to them and they said, sounds good to us. And   Joe: Wow.   Tony: We're like, damn it, maybe we should ask   Joe: All   Tony: For some   Joe: Right.   Tony: More. So of course, we're not going to be greedy because it was already double our number in our mind. And we sold them and then they said yes, and we're so cool. We went down that road and it was about a better one year due diligence phase of going through all the accounting and understanding, all the systems and processes in place and negotiating the contract and the details. And that was a really, I would say, a semi stressful situation,   Joe: Yeah,   Tony: Because   Joe: I can imagine.   Tony: Even though that the millions of dollars is looking in your mind, you don't really think it's real. Actually, because I actually interviewed somebody on my show yesterday. It sold a nine figure exit and he and I had very similar, even though he was a whole different range of the money. I made very similar psychological things going through your mind because it seems fake until you see it in your actual bank account.   Joe: Yep.   Tony: And even when you initially see it in your bank account, it still feels a little fake until you, like, spend it a little bit, you're like it's real, OK, they're not going to call me back and say, oh, we made a mistake. We need to have our money back. Right.   Joe: All right.   Tony: So does these weird things that we go through the exit companies and only one percent of businesses actually sell. And to hear this kind of experience is very rare. But I wanted to be really transparent and show people that because it's a it's very intrusive to go through that your books better be damn right. If you think you can lie about things that your company is doing or not doing, you're going to get discovered during that because lawyers get involved and they're digging through all kinds of stuff. I mean, they're literally looking for ways to devalue your company and you're looking for ways to add value to your company during that one year process. So you just got to be transparent about things and keep your books in order. That's the main thing. And learn how to build valuation in your companies. And it just turns out we were just doing everything right. We had the recurring revenue business model. We had presold ads. We were cash flow positive. We had proven database of, you know, information of users and their emails and our names, which increased valuation based on customer acquisition cost. It would cost them to go find those people in the same market. So we had a lot of things that were checking the boxes. And it was also a tech platform with a really strong brand, which also increased valuation. So we just did everything the right way. And the reason we did that is because we just did things like business. Again, it wasn't a hobby to us.   Joe: Yep, so you get to the final stage, it gets sold, they buy it, you sell it, you're still working. How long did you stay at your job once you exited this company?   Tony: Another eight more.   Joe: Eight more years.   Tony: Eight more years.   Joe: Wow,   Tony: Yeah,   Joe: That was   Tony: I   Joe: Not the   Tony: Actually   Joe: Answer   Tony: Had   Joe: I expected.   Tony: I had spin offs, I had verticals that I created from that acquisition, I had a retail company selling wheels for cars because, one, we didn't have an advertiser that was selling wheels. And I was referring a lot of business out the door. And I said, you meant I could just do the buying and get another LLC and create my own wheel company and sell the wheels. And, you know, that became a seven figure business on its own. And when the website came up for sale, I said, do you guys want the retail side? Or like, oh, now we just want the data. We want the assets. We don't want anything to do with retail. They're a marketing house.   Joe: Yes.   Tony: I was like, so I could just create another LLC and keep this business to myself. And that's and so I did. So I still had a seven figure business even after that. That was part time that I enjoyed that kept me in the industry, kept me relevant, kept me engaged in cars. And so but I was also in that pursuit of becoming an executive with an oil and gas. That was my my goal. And I was really good at navigating that. And I made it towards making about 250000 a year in salary. And and near the end of that, I started to realize that the oil industry just doesn't treat people as good as they should. And I started to have to be that person that had to make tough decisions on employing certain people. And even though they were high performers and I got to see a lot of shady things in H.R., the things that are unwritten that we always hear about, like ageism and like cutting people before their pension fully   Joe: Oh,   Tony: Hits   Joe: Man.   Tony: Because, you know, it's a it's a it's a it's a financial decision. It's not personal. And I get to see this multiple times. And it started to impact me. And it's like, you know, I don't want to support another industry that does not support people, that we're we're basically disposable. And when I was young and disposable and making less money, it was very easy to find me a replacement job because I was it was inexpensive and unexperienced as I started to make, you know, multiple six figures. And in my 40s, if I were getting laid off, it was typically a six to eight month sitting on the bench waiting for the next bus to come around type scenario. And a lot of times I was having to fire myself and put people in my my desk that was ten years younger than me and 100000. I was less income than made just to keep the bench warm. For me to return at the market turned around. I was like, I don't like being in this situation. And so, you know, I took a near-death experience for me, racing cars to finally realize, like, I don't want to go back to that and I need to go create more impact in the world. And that's what I did, is I decided I need to go teach people what I have passions for. And one was cars, which I built a lot of success in cars. The other thing has always been entrepreneurship. And so I said, OK, that's how I'm going to best impact this world, is teach people business and confidence around being an entrepreneur. And that's what I've been doing since 2017. It took me two years, even after leaving my job, to think about what I really wanted to do. You know, was it was it a nonprofit, wasn't a philanthropy? What is it that I wanted to do? And for me, I just love to be a teacher, so that's why I do what I do now.   Joe: So do you. I've thought about this question a lot in regards to you, if this if the site didn't do what it did and you didn't sell it and make that kind of money. Have you ever thought about where you would be today?   Tony: Yeah, I would still be working in the oil and gas industry for sure.   Joe: So   Tony: For sure.   Joe: With viewers, listeners and viewers that will hear this. What would you say to them if they were to say, well, he I mean, you did the work, it wasn't like you got lucky, but you got lucky in the sense that someone wanted to buy it. Right. I mean, and and   Tony: Yeah, it wasn't for sale,   Joe: Right.   Tony: So you're right.   Joe: So someone saying, well, what's the chances of that happening to me? Or how do I if that doesn't happen, then I do have to just continue on the path that I'm on. So what would you say to them about not getting a lucky break like that? How do you create that break for yourself to to then become this entrepreneur and service the world and do good things?   Tony: I mean, honestly. My book, Side Hustle Millionaire, teaches people how to take the ideas for businesses and create reality out of those, because I was always ask, hey, what do you think about this business idea and what do you think about this? And the thing is that too many people take pride in having ideas. They think that there's their super smart. They think they're genius because they have this idea. And, you know, you and I both know that thousands of people die every single day with brilliant ideas and take them to the grave that were never materialized. And so ideas really aren't worth anything until you take any actions and see some results from those. So don't give yourself too much credit if you're listening to this or watching this, if you've got an idea, unless you try it and it's OK to fail, sometimes failing is actually the best lessons. But for people who are employed when you're all your bills are paid, you need to start thinking about what the number is and the number is what is the bare necessities. You need to be able to sustain your lifestyle or even downgrade your lifestyle.   Tony: Let's be honest, because a lot of times people live above their means. What is the number? And I'm thinking a dollar number. What is the actual number like? Take your rent or your mortgage, your car, note your insurance, your food, your utilities, and put them on a spreadsheet and go, this is the number. And if it's 2000 or 3000 or 10000, whatever that number is, you need to have that number in your mind. Because once you start to make a profit in your side business that meets or exceeds that number, you need to really force yourself into a decision moment. Like you need to know that number is so important to know that number, because a lot of times we find that side hustlers and people that do things on the side will exceed that number, but never force themselves into decision mode. Because the question that you have to have in this decision is, should I just drop my career and go full time with this? And I have two reasons to do that. Right. Like you heard me give examples of why I didn't leave because it wouldn't have increased my income   Joe: At.   Tony: Like I was the number one in the category. I had all the market share. The extra hours would not have translated to extra dollars. It made no sense for me to leave. Now, if you do have a company and you realize that, hey, if I can contribute eight extra hours, maybe nine hours, if you have a commute to go to work, if I can commit nine extra hours a day to this business, what are the numbers look like? Does it scale? Does it make a higher profit? Because I'm already at the number I could actually leave right now. I actually have a parachute on my back that I could deploy that it's going to replace my salary already. So why am I staying here? And if the answer is like, yeah, extra hours will increase the business, it will also increase your freedom and your confidence. And most people really don't understand the confidence that entrepreneurship brings because I've never experienced that. There's something beautiful about commuting to your coffeemaker and walking to your office and you're in your own house, in your pajamas   Joe: Aymen.   Tony: And and waking up like you fire up the email, you go, Oh, I made three thousand dollars last night while I was asleep. I mean, it just sounds so unrealistic. But the reality is, is realistic realistically, when you start to surround yourself with people who are doing it and who could teach you how to do that, your eyes just start to open up and you go, wow, I remember thinking, eighty five dollars an hour at work was like a lot of money because that's close to two hundred thousand dollars salary. You know, I remember negotiating like they wanted to give me eighty, eighty dollars an hour and I was like, I want nineteen. OK, how about we meet in the middle eighty five. I mean I was at 180, 200 range. If you do the if you do the math. And the thing is, is there's this perception that multiple six figures is a lot of money and corporate and it is because I get it, the average income in the United States is 67000 a year. Some people will never make 100000 hours. It's sad to me because I can make that in a weekend now.   Tony: And had you asked me twenty years ago if that was possible with a laugh, it's like there's no way you can make a hundred thousand dollars in a week. And that just sounds stupid, like you're dreaming. You get rich quick, you join some kind of network marketing or whatever, like it's bullcrap, Tony. But now I've done it a couple of times, like why did I ever have these limitations on income and why did that exist? And you start to think about where that comes from. It's because of your supervisors, from your parents is from your teacher, your professors. They're telling you what you they think you're worth based on what the market will bear. Oh, you're a mechanical engineer. Well, you can make one hundred fifty thousand dollars if you work twenty years. So, OK, so your self-worth becomes well, I can make one hundred and fifty thousand dollars by the time I'm sixty, and maybe they'll give a bonus to me and my last five years as an attaboy and I'll get a Rolex. And   Joe: Right.   Tony: Why the hell we give Rolex is to people that are retiring. Like what do they need to be on time anymore.   Joe: Exactly.   Tony: Like thank you. What, why don't you give me the Rolex when I'm twenty, so I'm always on time. Right. So a lot of weird things. They were created in these boundaries and and so people tend to define their self-worth based on a limitation of their salary. Their profession, which is really sad, is really sad.   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: And none of these limitations exist in reality. It's that there's no such thing as a limitation. And when you start to hang around people that think like I do, you're going to challenge everything you believe. And it's going to be really hard to to unwind a lot of the things that were were screwed up with. But it's crazy. The reality of. It really exists.   Joe: Yeah, and this is why I do my podcast and I openly admit it to people, is it's because it's a selfish endeavor for me to be able to hang out with people like you and just virtually rub elbows. And at some point, hopefully we meet in person. But that's the goal, is to change the mindset. I watched my father just work himself to death. He literally was. I forget if it was two weeks away from retiring and had a stroke   Tony: Oh,   Joe: And   Tony: Man.   Joe: Was paralyzed on his right side. I watched him work harder than any man I ever watched. And I just I don't want to see that. I don't want to experience that. So I appreciate that. So you jumped ahead on me, which is great, because I want to know. So here's twenty seventeen. Your you decide that you're going to do you know, you're   Tony: The   Joe: Going   Tony: Coaching   Joe: To do   Tony: And the   Joe: The   Tony: The   Joe: Coaching.   Tony: Community building, yeah.   Joe: So when did you decide to write Side Hustle a Millionaire. When did you decide that. Well I have to write a book on this because that's a big endeavor. I everybody I hear that has written a book says it's probably one of the hardest things I ever had to do.   Tony: You know, the funny thing about writing the book. Side Hustle Millionaire was a idea in my mind five years before I actually wrote it. Five years, because I knew even because I was around 40 at that time and I was like, you know, I need to do something that helps more people, you know, before the Internet flex on Instagram, I was the one that would post driveway photos with 10 cars and things like that, because, one, I had some insecurity issues and self validation things that I had to work through. And I didn't ever feel like I belong with the rich people. And I had to prove that I belong with them and a whole lot of weird things that we grow up through. But besides, the point is that as I wanted to start teaching people how I got those cars, because the only people that were benefiting from that knowledge were my friends and like people I worked with people within my close proximity because one, I didn't like being on camera. I didn't like being on stage. I didn't like my recorded voice. And I had a lot of insecurities around that, too. And I became a highly successful kind of in the background, and I was fine with that. So anytime people were like, oh, you should go write a book and you could teach all the stuff, I'd be like, Oh man, but I'm so busy. You know, I've got a kid and a wife and I've got a career and I've got this retail company. And I would just make a a list of bullshit excuses of things why I wasn't really serving the purpose that I am on today.   Tony: And it was all stem based on the fear of criticism. Right. And so even when I go through this near-death experience, racing cars and deciding that I need to impact the world, I was still approaching it from a I need to make impact. But I was still being cowardly about my way of doing that, my method. And so I said, you know what, I could write a book. And that doesn't mean I have to be on a stage or a camera or radio or TV and I can just write this book and it'll be a good way that's affordable. It's portable, and I can get what's in my mind out to thousands of people. And so I decided in really November of 2017 I'm going to write a book and I validated the idea and use my social media to ask what they would want from me. And I asked them what questions they would want answered. I was really good at using my entrepreneurship, evaluating a product before I spend time on it. I did that. I applied the same principles to a book which is another product. And while I was writing the book, my editor, Mike, I was giving him a chapter at a time to review and he was like, Man, this is going to be a good book. I cannot tell because he's helped a lot of people become bestsellers and and one day he's like, they're going to want to interview.   Joe: You're like, oh, no.   Tony: Yeah, he's like because you might be on TV, radio, podcasts, and I felt that Stagefright, again, coming up was like, I'm in. But I'm kind of a daredevil anyways, and I said, you know what, this is a sign. This is this is a sign I need to go take care of this fear. So just like any other normal human with a fear or something or challenge like so just like most people with a fear of public speaking or any other challenge, they basically get on Google or they get on Syria, they ask, you know, how do we overcome this? And for the results, I said, join a Toastmasters or join a Rotary Club and hire a speaking coach. I said, OK, this is something I have to do. And and obviously, it was really, really avoiding this kind of scenario. So I joined Toastmasters. It's a it's a nonprofit that teaches public speaking and leadership. And there's local clubs all over the world and is really inexpensive. I think it was like 45 dollars for our whole six months. And I said this is like a no brainer. So I'll I'll try that. And so I said, if I'm going to go, I'm going. I'm not going to be a spectator. I'm going to make myself really uncomfortable. I want to sit in the front row and I'm going to raise my hand every meeting with, like once a week and just volunteer to do something in the front of the room and just make myself uncomfortable. And because I knew that the book was about five months out and I needed to get ahead of this. Right. So   Joe: Yeah.   Tony: So that's what I did is so I would learn a new tactic of public speaking at a meeting. And then for the next seven days, I would do videos. I would I would go on Instagram or Facebook and just practice what I was learning on public speaking to my phone and is really uncomfortable. And I did not. All those videos exist or like in May, June of 2017. And I basically just I just did them every day. And that's how I improved. And I used to be so afraid of just doing videos, I would do them in my truck. Somebody walked by in the park in like an aisle away, I would put the camera down and act like I wasn't doing any videos because I was so weird to go through that. And I would record myself like ten takes and I would finally get one. That was the best I could do at that given moment. And I would share that one. And and that's how I did better. And I did that for over a year. And now within six months of me joining Toastmasters and doing those reps and making myself uncomfortable and doing about a speech per month, I actually started competing and representing that club and the Toastmasters competitions. And I actually won and went three rounds like   Joe: Wow.   Tony: I went I was like fourth place in all of Houston, you know, after doing the club level than the area level that I went to district. And it was it was crazy. So even after winning a couple of competitions, I, I finally started realizing there might actually be something to this. Like I actually might be OK at doing this.   Joe: Mm hmm.   Tony: So it's me winning competitions to finally realized that. And like anything else that I get into, I just go all in. And to me, public speaking was the thing I needed to go get good at. And I focused on it. I studied who I thought were the best speakers. I learned from people to hire a speaking coach. And I did reps and and I actually became the president of that Toastmasters club. And I grew it to one of the largest clubs in Houston and had about 50 active members at the time. I was president for a year or so. I got to go from being transformed to transforming hundreds of people that came in and out those doors for a period of over four years of being in that organization. And and I just I've seen so many changes that most people really underestimate the the quickness you can change. And I would say for most Toastmasters, you can come in definitely afraid. And if you participate within three to six months, you'll be a completely different person. So it happens that fast. And I've seen it too many times to to argue the results. So if you're out there and you're worried about public speaking or doing videos like this or you have a fear of that, like go join, make yourself uncomfortable, do the reps and it is a skill is not a talent. When you hear someone speaking like I do now, it's not a talent. It's not something I was born with. It wasn't even a thought in my mind to be a public speaker. But I learned the tactics and the strategies of effective communication and how to use my vocal inflections and speed and volume control presence, hands. All the things that you never even think about are part of communication. You learn when you actually get coached and you actually it's a skill. It's just like learning a new language.   Joe: Yeah, and it was a real surprise to me, because I actually heard you say that you had a real fear of public speaking in it. I think it was a clubhouse room because you were giving advice to someone. And when you said that, I was like, I can't be the same person. I just, you know, I didn't understand it. And I personally think, you know, I come from the entertainment side of things. I own an entertainment booking agency here in Phoenix, probably one of the biggest ones here. So I was a performer my whole life. So it's not hard for me to necessarily do this, even though, yeah, a lot of people don't like how they look. They don't like how they're their own voice, all these things. But   Tony: Yeah.   Joe: I think you have a great voice. It's it's incredibly soothing the way that's what I liked about how you presented yourself in those rooms. It wasn't like I'm great and it wasn't like there's a lot of people that just sort of yell and they're like, you know, that's how they   Tony: I'm   Joe: Get there   Tony: Super awesome,   Joe: Exist.   Tony: And for nine hundred ninety seven dollars,   Joe: But   Tony: You can get the course that will make you a millionaire   Joe: That   Tony: And one   Joe: Is

Finishing Your Tasks With Tony Guarnaccia How do you make sure things get done? As many business owners have, I've been in a spot before where you start a project, to find that you get halfway through the project and the psychology of the mind says, "let's finish the project, but you don't even really look at why you started it”.  I've got Tony Guarnaccia here who is the founder of ResultsClub.org to tell us about a special system he's got called the Results Loop. Tell me about how you make sure you don't make the final mistake of feeling like you have to finish something while you might be flogging a dead horse.  Tony: Let me start with the story. Years ago, back then late 1930s. There was an epidemic much like we're dealing with today. It was a polio epidemic and so it impacted children where they couldn't walk. Unfortunately, my mother was one of those people. So at the age of just nine months old, she found herself with polio, unable to walk all the way up to the age of 14 years old. So growing up, I asked her, how did you survive? How are you actually able to eventually walk and wear high heels? But even mentally? How do you get through that?  What I always learned growing up that what I applied to business today is that you have to break things down. That really is kind of the impetus behind a lot of what I'm talking about, which is taking small steps. What my mother had to do to be able to walk was that the hospital first had her work with pottery to build up the nervous system and strength. Eventually, they had her swimming, building up more strength to the point where she was then starting to slowly walk.  Three Steps to Success What I discovered from her and working with some of the best companies in the world, is that there are really three things that are necessary to have success. Number one, you have to know what steps to take.  Number two, then you have to know how to take those steps.  Number three,  you have to actually take the action and take those steps.  So that is really the formula I found that I applied to my system called The Results Loop, which we can talk about in a minute. Resisting the Shiny Object It's great to hear that we've got the medical ability to put your mum in a position that she is now. So often people make purchases of things, and they go, “oh, that's great”, but then the next day they go, “what the hell did I do that for?” Myself, I might buy something online and think it sounds like a good idea, but then the next day I realise I may have had too many beers when I bought it. If I was sober I may not have done it quite as quickly. How do you make sure the squeeze is worth the juice?  Tony: I love that saying because that's something I grew up with in business. I think it really comes down to business owners and marketers. They both chase the shiny object. They're looking at the latest thing without first looking at your overall strategy. Where I always start is with what you want to accomplish. So you start with the end in mind, what's your end goal, and then you reverse engineer it. Otherwise, the business is going in the wrong direction. It's something we've all done. How many of us have wasted money hiring the wrong people, placing the wrong ads, wasting ads, wasting time, wasting money, we've all done it. A lot of times it comes down to the decisions we make. A lot of times we make a quick decision, but it's not necessarily the right decision. Not Everyone Should Be Your Customer As you say we've all done that. I know when I started out in business doing I.T, I thought everyone could be my customer. So we had residential people, we had businesses, we had local councils, we had all sorts of different people's schools. I had a look at our marketing spending and what it was bringing in. After that, we cut out schools. we cut out local council, and decided to just focus on small to medium enterprises. But without having that data there, it wouldn’t have been possible to do that.  Finding a Balance In The Results Loop, let's say I'm looking to go down a new path and someone told me about this cool strategy. How do you work out that balance between home and business? Or if you're starting out in business completely from scratch, and you've done the Boston Tea Party approach and just saying we’re going out on our own, how do you make sure that you focus on the right thing. Sometimes it's not necessarily the work in the trenches, is it? Tony: No it isn’t. The good news is, I found that regardless of the company or the stage they're at, the same six factors apply. Those six factors are: The market you're serving. The products and services you're providing them, which I call offerings. Your value. Gaining new buyers, The loyalty of those buyers How to Get Quality Referrals  Josh: I've been inundated with too many customers before and then had to cut some of them out, but then some of the others have downsized. So how would you make sure that you got results that a referral system, for instance? Tony: It depends on the size and the stage of the company. So if it's a startup, you really want to go around it in terms of starting with your markets and your offerings. So that's the best place to start if you're stuck. But if you're an established company, and you want to scale and get to the next level, it's always best to start with loyalty, which is getting people to buy more frequently, and getting them to refer you because that's the lowest cost per acquisition. So that's the first place to start.  The way I begin with referrals, and you would appreciate this because I know you're a data guy, is to start with measurement. So you want to see where you are having success today and where you're not having success today to least come up with some ratios. For instance, what percentage of my customers or give me referrals? How many referrals on average? Do they provide me during the course of the year?  There are all sorts of metrics that you can leverage to create referral systems. You want to take where you're at today, understand what those numbers are, and what the drivers of those numbers are. Benchmark yourself, and hopefully even benchmark yourself against others. After doing this you can then come up with systems to improve those numbers since systems give you predictability. Great Referral Programs for Companies That Aren’t Sexy Can Exist I love my numbers and love data. With referrals, I've always tried to make they are worth it. With my I.T business Dorks Delivered, our clients usually only contact us when something has gone wrong. I've always found that customers when everything's working really well, they love you, but they don't bring it up in conversation with others unless they someone else expresses it.  How do you have some refer a non sexy professional services product?  Tony: Sadly, that's what a lot of our businesses are like in B2B, they're not the sexiest things necessarily. So what do you do? Well, there are a couple of things to look at. One, you can certainly get referrals from your clients or customers, what I always look at is joint venture partners as well. So who is in complementary businesses, and I would think of it in two ways, who comes before you, what kind of business creates the problem or the need that you solve? Then who do you create the problem or need for? So for instance, if you're a marketing agency, I did this when I started, I focused on web designers because I wasn't doing websites at the time. I knew they create the problem that I solved. Once you get a website, you probably want to have it optimised. So that's one place to start, and I like to start there because they have more volume. So you might get one or two from your client base, but if you can leverage joint venture partners like that, there's a lot more opportunity.  For your clients, I would look at trigger points. So there's always specific trigger points that drive the opportunity for the referral. One is when you do a good job. So you want to make sure that part of your sales process or your customer support process is to ask for the referral at those different points in time. When people first buy from you, is a very good time to ask as well. But how do you actually do that? How do you make it easy for them to refer you? That goes back to the fundamental question of why someone would refer you. It's the same answer as to why they would buy from you, which is value, you have to provide value.  Providing Value Tony: The way I look at any kind of lead generation is that there's always an exchange of value. So at the top of the funnel, when someone first comes into your world, you're exchanging, essentially, their time for your content. They're not giving you a lead or anything like that. A good example would be a podcast. So someone is exchanging their time about all things B2B marketing, right? Then the next stage is where someone's going to give you their contact information, otherwise known as a lead. Rhere's an exchange there, but a lot of times it's higher value content.  So for instance, I have an assessment, and what they get is they get a score, called the result score, in exchange for me getting some contact information. At the very bottom of the funnel is the exchange of money. Typically, it's money for an end result. So how do you apply this to a referral system?   You want to think about how can your client give you a referral and get value out of it.  What kind of value would someone get? Well, status. So if you have a company that has a lot of status, then a lot of people want to give that referral. Or, it might be even something that's helpful for their friend, because I increase their status as well. A lot of times in B2B, I suggest getting what's known as a referral kit. So it might be a book or something that's really tangible that's going to help somebody. So I would reframe my mind from not getting a referral. But really, how can I help my client help their friend to reframe your mind. I'm glad you answered the way that you did because that is definitely something that has been working for us. Ultimately knowledge isn't something that people should be paying too much for. They should be able to get that knowledge and really understand who you are and a podcast is a fantastic way for people to understand who you are.  Consider Gifting a Book Have you heard of a guy named Bob Berg? I was given his book many years ago and was told read this will change your business. There was a note in the book from who I got it from saying, now that you finish reading this, it's time that you give someone else the same enjoyment. So I went and bought 30 copies of the book and wrote the same note in the back. I found that it really just gets the relationship off on the right foot when they can hold something that is tangible after they've been dealing in the digital world. If they've already started to know, like, and trust you, and then you've given them something that’s helping their business out, that helps your business out.   Tony: That is one of the reasons why I have a book coming out for exactly that reason, because it's a great way for someone to refer me. They give the friend a copy of the book. One thing that is really important with B2B in particular, is a lot of times your success is relative to how much time someone spends with you. So podcasts are great for that, because someone's listening for 20 minutes. Imagine what it's like for a book. Someone's reading your book for two or three hours, they're really getting used to who you are, and building that know, like, and trust in place. Remember: Don't Automate The Personal Touch As much as I love automation and love data, don't automate the personal touch. It's something you should never automate. You're spending the time to talk to someone, if you're talking to them, listen to them and truly hear them. You've got two ears in one mouth, make sure that you are using them in that proportion and you'll build a relationship and you'll grow rather quickly.  So if people have gone through your different growth strategies, and there's now got their funnel full, where do you come in to be able to help people out? with making sure that your team's able to deliver on the results without watering down. How can you make sure that your team stays up to par and that they are doing what they're meant to be doing? Tony: I've been fortunate to work at many different levels in business. Six, seven-figure businesses, eight and nine figure businesses, Fortune 500 businesses. Really, the difference is, the smaller companies have no systems or process. As you get to the next level, you start to have things more systematised. So a lot of times if people are not stuck with sales or marketing, it's an operational problem. That usually comes down to the systems you've created, the automation you have, or communication systems.  Standard Operating Procedures Are Vital I started out as a solo guy saying I can do better than where I was working, and I went gangbusters. Then I realised I'm spending a lot of time doing bookkeeping and doing all the administration stuff that I didn’t like. My first contractors became full time staff members, then one of them sadly had a stroke and had to jump out of the role. It nearly killed the business because we're both working very hard. That's when I started heavily investing in standard operating procedures. This documentation made sure that the things that you can't automate can be followed exactly how you want by the meat in the seat. The same way, as Ray Kroc originally envisioned McDonald's to have a bunch of 15 year olds run your business. Auditing Your Team I understand that you do team audits to make sure that people are doing what they're meant to be doing. Tell me a bit more about how do you know if your team's doing the right thing to need to have an audit? Tony: The first thing you want to look at is do you have the right people. You want to have the right people on the bus and in the right seats. Where do you start with that? That starts with you, meaning the business owner, or the executives. You need to define your core values, your mission and your purpose, and your big, hairy audacious goals, your vision, those kinds of things. If you have a compelling vision, people will follow you. So you want to make sure that they have the same value system.  In my company, I define six core values that kind of drive who we are, how we hire and the decisions we make. The way I think about it is, do they fit your core values? Do they have the skills necessary? Do they have kind of the attributes? You don't want to have someone who is very analytical running the sales team, it probably wouldn't be a good fit. So you want to make sure all that is aligned, and then you can really scale your team.  If you've got someone setting the team's energy, you need to make sure you have the people on the bus in the right seats. I like that. I've seen in businesses that we've worked with where a gun engineer has been put into a managing role to manage engineers and it nearly kills them. They enjoy being on the tools solving the problems, not solving people problems. How Results Club Works  Tell me a bit more about ResultsClub.org. Let's say I’m trying to work out if Tony is the right fit for me, how's this going to help me out? How does it all work? Tony: Results Club is a membership, a group coaching membership, where I answer people's questions on where they're stuck. What we do is every week is we hit on different topics. So one week, it might be HR, so we bring in an HR professional. What I love is sales and marketing. So that's what I focus on. You go on the call, and you can ask questions to the expert or me directly, and really get unstuck with whatever stage you're in. It's also a great place to network with like-minded individuals. Sounds like there are multiple reasons why you want to be on there. It's going to be a stepping stone, it's going to be something that's going to allow for people to really get to that next level. Tony: Absolutely. One of the frustrations I had, as I’ve grown businesses, is I don't have the answer to this particular question. I wish I could just call someone and get that answer, whether it's something technical, or whatever it is., I always wish I had a resource to go to. I thought, well, if it's not existing out there, why not create it? So that's really why I created it. So people can use this as kind of like a soundboard to bounce ideas off of, or pretty much use them as the pseudo Board of Directors without any financial interest which is really cool. So the different walks of life people have been in, they could be anything from solicitors, accountants, and anywhere from around the world. How do you work out the collaboration partners?  Tony: So we'll have meetings where it cross-pollinates where you can ask people that are not in your industry because I actually believe that's where the greatest innovation comes from is looking outside your industry. Then we'll also have different meetings where it will be industry-specific where people can think with other people that do what they do. One of the best things you can do is go to a conference that has nothing to do with what you're in and what you're doing to learn from outside your industry. I went to one on accounting geared towards practices that needed software to manage many, many books. I went along and realised there's a product here right now I can easily integrate. They're already paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars a month for their subscriptions and we can integrate this for 50 bucks. But everyone went, oh, this is just how we've been doing this. This is how it's done. It's just about being there to think about it and using that pencil in the spacecraft instead of the pen upside down to become an innovator. Is there anything else you'd like to go through? Final Thoughts Tony: Just to circle back on what we talked about the how and actually taking action, but just to circle back on the what because that's the area that's most often neglected. What I like to do is take people through a plan. So with The Results Loop I created it in such a way where it's a planner, it's a one-page marketing/sales/business plan. We really take the time to step back and examine what you want to accomplish in the next year is really worth the time. Most people don't do that.  I used to be a professional violinist. When I was learning really hard music, my teacher would tell me to slow down to speed up. As a young kid, I just wanted to blow through the hard stuff and just get to the melodies and be lazy. What I learned is really, again, small steps, break things down to slow, and that actually will accelerate your growth and so forth. Most people won't plan though, because they're afraid to fail. They don't want to take the time, they don't know how, but planning is really one of the secrets that I found for success.  When you think about planning, if you feel those butterflies in your chest saying you shouldn't do that, it's probably the thing you think you should do. If it feels like jumping out of your comfort circle, as much as you hate it, you should definitely do it.  You've got a nice deal running for people to jump into The Results Club at a discounted rate at the moment.  Tony: Yeah, you go there and this club, it's going to be $297 a month. Before we do that, we're going to have it for a period of $97. But right now to say thank you for having me. Honestly, it's only $1 for the first two months. So it's $2 to get two months, which is eight sessions with me and my guests were literally any question you have and where you're stuck in your business, I'll answer it. How good is that. Two months, $2, it's less than a cup of coffee. That's pretty good. Sink your teeth in and it's very, very low risk, very low entry price and definitely jump across. I'm going to be jumping across and checking it out. Use the code Business Built Freedom, BBF. Anyone that has enjoyed this, make sure to check out resultsscore.com or resultsclub.org and see what Tony has got to say and sign up, see what you get out of it.

We get a lot of questions about how the house (or houses) fit into retirement plans. From downsizing to rental properties to interest rates, let’s explore some of the top retirement questions as it relates to all things housing. Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Marc: Hey, everybody. Welcome into this edition of Plan With the Tax Man. Thanks so much for hanging out with Tony and myself as we talk investing, finance, and retirement. And this week, well it's on the house. We're going to actually talk about the house and how it fits into retirement plans. But first Tony, what's up my friend, how are you?   Tony: I am fantastic. Although it's getting cold here. It's in the fifties and raining.   Marc: Man, I'd say it's a crazy week. My in laws live in the Wyoming area. And of course, I don't know if you saw this or not, but obviously Colorado got in the corner there and they got eight inches of snow. They can see the fires and they got eight inches of snow. Crazy.   Tony: Yeah, yeah. It's definitely a weird weather pattern, we got going right now.   Marc: That 2020 Bingo card as you and I were talking before we started. No one could have guessed some of the things, we had dueling hurricanes this year, they call it a hurricane square dance. They might touch each other and spin around. And we had the weird thing that happened there in Iowa that no one has ever heard of before. So, just crazy. And then of course, obviously, all the other stuff that we don't need to get into, because everyone knows about it, but it's just been a wild, wild year.   Tony: Definitely.   Marc: So, we're going to simplify it and just talk about our house. How about that?   Tony: That sounds good.   Marc: We get tons of questions all the time.   Tony: I love talking about houses.   Marc: Well, we get tons of questions about them, right? So let's just talk about it a little bit, whether you're thinking about downsizing, or you're thinking about how does it fit into your legacy plans, or do you want to have rental properties, or whatever the case might be. Let's just explore some top questions that relate to the home. So Tony, where do you fall on the debate of pay it off, pay off the house as soon as possible going into or in retirement or leading up to it or whatever, or with all the interest rates that we've seen, really low this year, a lot of people re-fi'd, maybe keeping the mortgage and paying it off slowly. Where do you stand on that debate?   Tony: Yeah, I'm a big believer, and there is a debate, and I love to argue with clients about this and actually show them the math. But the old adage is, well, you have a house, you can't obviously pay it off, many can't, all at once, in cash. So you take out a mortgage and you, of course, you can write off the interest, for your taxes. And with today's low rates, that's even more attractive because obviously, it makes for the fact that people can maybe afford more or keep their payments low. But I'm a big believer, I'm a Dave Ramsey disciple on this, I always suggest trying to get out of all debt and staying out of all debt at all costs. And so if you're asking me, I have my own house paid off, it was such a great deal when that happened and I never want to have a mortgage again.   Tony: But that being said, you can't just do it all, in over the course of two to five years for most. So I definitely would work toward that goal. Maybe pay a little extra toward the mortgage to maybe get it paid off a little sooner than you had originally planned and take advantage of low rates while you can. But I always tell people, here's what I tell them, I said, I ask them, "How much is your house payment?" Somebody might blurt out, "A thousand dollars a month." And I say, "Okay, so that's $12,000 a year that's costing you, out of your pocket, for a tax deduction, if you can even take it. And let's say just round numbers, they're in the 20% tax bracket, for a $4,000 deduction. So which would you rather have at the end of the year, 12,000 or 4,000?" Of course they always say 12. I say, "Then you need to pay off your house and then you got an instant raise," but that's not possible, again, just being able to go out and do it over- [crosstalk 00:03:36].   Marc: Right. Well, and as we get closer to retirement, people do, definitely early on, but let's say you're anywhere from two to eight years out, sometimes people are in that position where they do wrestle with that classic debate. "Well, I got it sitting there. Do I go ahead and do it? And then what is it saying? I'm house rich and cash poor, or do I want to hang onto it as an additional emergency fund?" And certainly 2020 has probably made a lot of people go, "I want to hang on to it. Just in case something wonky comes out of the blue." So I don't guess there's a right or wrong answer a lot of times Tony, I know there's the math answer, but then as you pointed out, there's also what I call the tummy rule. If it just makes you feel better and helps you sleep at night and settles your stomach down to have it gone, then maybe that's the avenue you take, regardless of the math.   Tony: Yes. And it is. And, but boy, the tummy rule definitely feels good once you're going to be able to do it. My philosophy is, get all the other stuff paid off first. The house would be the last thing, because obviously the rates are low. You can still deduct it potentially. And then just work towards it. And then hopefully by, or a little bit before retirement, you maybe can have that paid off if everything else is going well.   Marc: Yeah. Okay. Well again, folks, so wherever you stand on that debate, and if you have that question on your own mind, "Hey, is it better to have it gone before we get into retirement, or as soon as we can in retirement, or to keep it?" Every situation is a little different. Always just talk with your advisor and see. But I guess if you have to have it, like you said, in order to not feel too beat up, and you shouldn't, that's for sure, it's what we call good debt. So it's much better than having some crazy credit card debt.   Tony: Yes. Absolutely.   Marc: All right. So let's go to the downsize question, Tony. Now this one also can be emotional because some people really want to stay in the home, but maybe they've been there 20, 30, 40 years, 50 years, they've raised the kids. They want to have all that, but there are lots of reasons, both math and economic, but also maybe health and other things to consider downsizing.   Tony: It is. Downsizing is tremendously emotional. And this is almost impossible to just say, other than my own personal opinion, but it's changed a lot since I'm getting a little older, back when I was young, I wanted a bigger house, in retirement, I wanted to be able to have all this room. Now that it's really starting to get a little closer, some things creep in and why do you need all that room, and whatnot? But the rationale sometimes there is well, maybe we should downsize. Maybe we have more home that we need-   Marc: Maintenance, maybe, right? [crosstalk 00:06:07]. Maybe there's a maintenance thing.   Tony: Yeah, maintenance is becoming an issue and just don't want to mess with it, with the time we have left, maybe we downsize a little bit and still get something comfortable. And some of it, sometimes, it has to do with money. Generally, the clients we work with, generally not, they just are looking for something a little smaller, less maintenance, less worry. And again, as we age, many of the clients are looking for everything on the same level.   Marc: Right.   Tony: Because they can't go up and down stairs.   Marc: Yeah. The knees can't take it anymore. Well, and I imagine that opens up some interesting, because we just talked about paying off the house, but if you're looking to downsize in retirement, there's some people listening saying, "Well, now I'm going to have a mortgage again." Now it depends on the situation you come out of if you sell the prior home, but it is a possibility, right?   Tony: It is a possibility. They may have a mortgage if you didn't have the other one paid off or still owed quite a bit on it because if you sell it and make a little bit of money, you're going to end up probably dumping that money into the new one and maybe taking out a mortgage. But if you own it or are close to the one you're selling, that really isn't an issue, but I'll share a story. I just had it with a client.   Marc: Sure.   Tony: He's relatively young. And his kids, who are relatively young. So he's in his fifties, his kids are in their late twenties, early thirties. And he decided he didn't want a home anymore. And he owned it. And he bought a condo. And a very nice condo, I would say luxury for sure. But you know what he didn't think about is, he didn't think about and he's already kicking himself, that what happens when my kids started having kids and my grandkids want to come over? I really don't have anywhere to even go play.   Marc: Right.   Tony: And so there's a lot of issues to think about there.   Marc: Absolutely.   Tony: I think about that. And so you just got to talk it out, see what's best for you and try to make the best decision there, but, no right or wrong answer there for sure.   Marc: Well, and I think a lot of times, if health is dictating it or whatever, again, have these conversations also not only with your partner, your spouse, but also with your advisor, because they might be able to shed some light on some tax situations or whatever the case might be when it comes to maybe switching from the home you used to have to the smaller one or whatever the case might be. So these are all good questions to think about when it comes to this component, which is also a pretty big component to your overall retirement plans. All right, so now some folks really like the idea of rental property. We've obviously had this fad for a while now, people wanting to get into flipping houses and all that stuff, but a lot of people think it's a good idea to have rental property as a source of creating income in retirement. How do you feel about that and what are some things to think about?   Tony: Well, I'm definitely biased here because we have owned rentals for probably 27 years. And we started out back in the day when I didn't have many clients and we basically had nothing to do. And so we learned it from our dad and we helped him with his rentals and then started acquiring our own. These days, now, we have multifamily housing. So we used to have single family dwellings. But our dream was always to own them until retirement and creating income in retirement. I think it's a good idea if you know what's involved, because people come to me during tax season and say, "Well, you guys have got a lot of rentals. Tell us about them. It sure looks easy."   Marc: Until you've had a rental.   Tony: It's not. Until you have them. It's definitely not out... Like you're owning a retail, brick and mortar business, but if you have say, a single family dwelling or a few of them, I think the biggest thing you got to understand is, there is some work involved. There is some time involved in how physically able, or how much time do you want to spend at it in retirement?   Marc: Right. Well, I think some- [crosstalk 00:09:54].   Tony: Generally... Oh, go ahead.   Marc: I think some people, Tony, I'm sorry, I think some people go into it thinking, A, it's good for income B, maybe they're handy and they think this is a good way to stay active because we can work on the house. But you do have to think about, as you continue to age, do you want to be on a roof? Or do you want those 2:00 AM toilet calls? Or whatever that case might be, right?   Tony: Or worse, when you get the call or you have to basically kick somebody out or they're moving out and they've destroyed the place. And the biggest thing that I tell people that want to know about it is, I tell them, you have to understand and come up with an amount of net profit you need every single month. And then eventually, things happen. And you have to put a little money aside because every once in awhile, something's going to go out and you don't want to have to constantly dip in your own pocket to repair a furnace or worse.   Marc: Sure.   Tony: And what we used to do is we used to go in, and back in our rookie days, I call it. You buy a house, you think, "Well, we're going to net $200 a month on this." We were ecstatic.   Marc: That's great, yeah.   Tony: Yeah. 12 months go by and that's only $2,400 and that's after everything, but you have one major repair or you have one person that destroys your property. You just destroyed your net income for maybe two to three years. And then, now you're behind the eight ball. And so you got to think about those kind of things and you got to make sure you buy it right, you rent it right. And so there's a little bit of work to it, but it can create a nice income of semi passive, I guess I should say.   Marc: Well, and maybe you want to go the route of a property manager, just again, factor that into the budget, right? Because that's going to come out of what you're expecting to get for that rental income to pay someone else to manage all that for you.   Tony: True. And most of the time though, we found, as clients and perspective clients want to talk to us about this. If you're only going to have one or two rentals, especially single families, property managers, although they're good, they're going to eat so much of your profit up, then you're back down to, there's not enough there, but as you acquire more, they're definitely worthwhile. We manage our own now, we're our own property management company, but back in the day, we were like that, we were the handyman, we were everything.   Marc: Oh yeah, no.   Tony: It was great.   Marc: And again, and it could be something you enjoy doing. There's a lot of people that like that kind of stuff, but just be prepared to deal with some of the negatives and unfortunately, it just is what it is. Typically, not all renters, but I would say more than half probably, if you were going to weigh this out, they're just not going to treat it as though it's their own place, right? That's the whole... So you do run into snags where you're going to have some bad tenants from time to time and it's going to cost you. So just make sure you're prepared for all that.   Tony: Yes.   Marc: All right, so then final one here to wrap this up, then. What complications have you seen, Tony, in your many years? 23 plus years of doing stuff in handling real estate when it comes to the estate or legacy side? Now, whether it's just the family home, whether it's a family that had multiple properties, it doesn't really matter. Just some bullet points to consider when dealing with real estate and legacy.   Tony: Yes. And even with mainly your principal residence, what we see a lot of is everybody comes in, especially as they start aging and they immediately hear or see things and they come in and say something like, "Well, I want to get the property out of my name. I just want to title it in my kid's name." And we of course say, "Why?" And they have no answers. They just hear it. And most of the time they're concerned with potentially having, and this is just one bullet point and there's many, that they're concerned with, "Well, if I have to in a nursing home, I want them to have something," and they don't understand all the rules behind that. And there are a lot of rules behind being able to do that. But, so that's one thing.   Tony: Generally, people want to do that. Other people want to make sure that if they pass, everything passes directly to their spouse via ownership, contract rules versus the rules of the will.   Marc: Right.   Tony: And so there's some issues there. And then of course, when you get into legacies, if you have more than one home, maybe a vacation home or something, and you want to leave it to somebody outside of your spouse, I would definitely talk to your advisor. And of course, if I'm your advisor, I'm going to ask you, let's talk to your attorney as well, because you want to make sure that you do this stuff right, because you're talking big numbers here and a mistake trying to maybe do it yourself, or listening to somebody on Google that you don't know what kind of background they have, could be disastrous.   Marc: Well, let me pose a question for you, because I think a lot of times people assume that their kids are going to be good, for lack of a better term, about things when mom and dad are gone and let's just be honest, unfortunately, sometimes money and things make people get a little goofy. So planning things out ahead of time and sharing all those thoughts certainly, certainly advisable. But what do you do maybe in scenarios, and maybe you've come across this, Tony, where I haven't, but you have multiple kids and maybe one's out of state and you're talking just maybe the single family home here or whatever. And one person wants it, one person doesn't want it. Now that seems like that could be easy but I would imagine that also dividing things up or making sure that both children feel that they got equal amounts of the complete estate, maybe if one got the home or one didn't. There just seems like there could be a lot of moving parts that it's better off to iron those things out earlier on, I would assume.   Tony: Definitely so. And we see it in these parts, even though we're in the capital city, but we have a lot of clients that own farmland and what happens when somebody passes is one of the kids is sometimes, "Well, I'm out here, I'm farming right now. So I want all this. I want to keep doing what mom and dad have done for all these years." The other kids are in the cities or in different states saying-   Marc: Could care less, right?   Tony: Yeah. "Well, we just want our cut, because we're not there." And the person back here saying, "Well, I don't have the cut to give you because I still want to do it."   Marc: Right.   Tony: So that's an issue, but yes, there's a lot of second and third marriages, we have problems with, too.   Marc: True, yeah.   Tony: Kids from the original marriage don't want dad to give the house that they grew up in to the second wife and just all kinds of issues.   Marc: Yeah.   Tony: So definitely, you got to do some talking through. It starts though with, I think, an honest sit down with your attorney and possibly your other advisors to iron out what you really want, just to make sure that everything's all very cut and dry.   Marc: And depending on the situation, Tony, I imagine then that's when you get this team together, you sit down with your financial advisor, like yourself, you bring in an estate attorney or an elder law attorney, something like that. And you go through and figure out what your wishes are and do you need a trust to make that happen? Or do you need a will? And make sure your BDs are correct. Whatever the case is and just go through all those steps. And then as an EA and a CFP, you're also able to say, "Okay, from a tax standpoint and things like that, let's look at this or that or the other, as well."   Tony: Correct. Yeah. Because there are some tax ramifications in there that as you pass this property around, there are some cost basis and gain considerations. And so you just got to think it through, and then you got to be able to go back to the team as needs change because, just because you set up something today, doesn't mean 10 years from now you can't change it.   Marc: Sure.   Tony: In fact, I'm going out with our own attorney at the end of this month. And we're making a slight change to our buy/sell agreement. It's always could be changed, but you just got to get started and make sure you're doing it properly.   Marc: Right. Absolutely. And that's the key, getting started. So we're going to wrap it up this week, here. So that was our conversation about the house. If you are already a client of Tony's and you've already addressed these things, you're thinking, "Well, that doesn't apply to me." Well, maybe you know somebody who does, maybe you've got a friend or a family member that could use the message as well, share the podcast with them and you could do so at yourplanningpros.com. That's yourplanningpros.com. If you haven't subscribed to us yet, go ahead and do so or let whomever you share that with know the same thing. There's lots of easy ways to do it on whatever platform you like, Apple, Google, Spotify, although Google is changing. I think it's going to be Google Podcasts now.   Tony: I heard, yeah.   Marc: I think they're switching as well. So I think we'll be coming to Amazon Audible soon as well. So just lots of ways for you to get playing with the tax man and get some content from us. And we certainly hope that you enjoy it and appreciate it. But if you do have questions, you do need some help or know someone does and is in a situation where they need to make a move, before you take any action, you should always check with a qualified professional, like Tony and his team. So reach out to them at (844) 707-7381. That's (844) 707-7381, he's right here in the central Iowa area at Tax Doctor, inc. So give him a call and check him out.   Marc: And Tony, my friend, thank you so much for your time. I hope you have a wonderful couple of weeks and I'll talk to you soon.   Tony: All right. Thank you, Mark.   Marc: We'll catch you next time here, folks, on Plan With the Tax Man. Don't forget, subscribe to us at yourplanningpros.com.

One of the central claims of The Trellis and the Vine was that Christian ministry is founded not only on preaching and teaching, but also on training. In fact, the chapter in which that argument was advanced most forcefully has always been the most controversial part of the book (Ch 8: ‘Why Sunday Sermons are necessary but not sufficient').Col Marshall and I have often been asked about what we mean by ‘training', and how it works out in practice. Does training essentially mean ‘running more training courses' like Two ways to live? And if that's too simplistic a picture (and of course it is), then what is ‘training' exactly? How is ‘training' different from ‘teaching' anyway?This week's Payneful Truth presents a fresh take on this topic, in two parts: via a recent interview with Marty Sweeney (Marty is the ministry director of Matthias Media USA); and then with some additional thoughts to round off.First, here's an edited excerpt of my interview with Marty.Marty and Tony talk about teaching and trainingMarty: Today, I want to talk to you about what I've colloquially said is teaching versus training. Let me set this up for you.Tony: Yep. What do you mean by that?Marty: I've been reflecting on my now 15-plus years doing ministry, specifically teaching ministry, in front of a classroom or in a small group, and I realized that often, I just default to content dissemination and I shorthand that as ‘teaching'.Tony: Okay.Marty: Now, I know that's probably not fair to the word ‘teaching', but what I mean by that is this—I've got all this content in my head, I've worked hard at developing a structure to deliver it, and I download it, so I'm teaching people. But what I realized is that I'm giving them content, but I'm not training them to be disciple-makers or to get that content out for others. That's what I mean by ‘training' them.It's one thing to just give people content. It's another thing to teach them and train them in a certain way that they are applying that to themselves, but also thinking about their neighbours, their friends, their coworkers. I think I've been a content disseminator but not a trainer.Tony: Yeah.Marty: Do you see that difference or maybe do you have any better words to describe it?Tony: Well, I'll outline some of the things that I've been digging into over the last couple of years regarding the ‘one-another' word ministry of Christians, because it's the same issue. What's the relationship between that kind of more practically oriented, everyday Christian speech, and the preaching or teaching that we receive in church or in a Sunday school class? (Hint: I think it's much the same as the relationship between ‘training' and ‘teaching'.)First, I don't think we have to denigrate teaching by calling it ‘content dissemination' as if it doesn't do anything powerful, because it does.Marty: Right. Yeah.Tony: If you teach well—and I've been in some of your classes, Marty, and you do teach well—you're not just blurting out material that washes over people; you're actually forming and changing their minds. You're providing them week by week with a new way to think about the world and themselves and God and everything. You're forming their mind and heart, as that content you've disseminated seeps in. It restructures the way that your hearers think about everything and understand everything. How does Paul put it in 2 Corinthians 5? When I'm in Christ, it's a new creation and I no longer regard anything from the standpoint of the flesh. I now regard everything from the standpoint of Christ. That's the wonderful thing that preaching and teaching does. That's why it's so powerful, and that's why we need to keep listening to it!But nearly all knowledge has two dimensions or axes to it. There's a kind of knowledge that changes your whole mind and way of thinking about the world—but there's also a kind of practically immediate knowledge, the knowledge of how to actually do things.If we can come to my second favourite topic after God-Jesus-and-the-Bible, which is golf—you can read as many golf magazines as you like, and I read plenty and watch interminable YouTube videos. But there comes a point where you need the practical immediacy of actually doing it, and having someone alongside you to help; someone to say, “No, no, don't do that!”And I think that's what we're talking about when we talk about ‘training'. It's not just the mind of my hearer that is being changed; it's their behaviour and action being changed. If it just stops with their mind and their understanding, and doesn't lead to a new way of speaking and living, then something's missing; it hasn't gotten the whole way.And this is where ‘training' (as we're calling it) comes in. Training is that kind of instruction and learning that takes place in the ‘practical immediacy' zone—where you're learning, for example, not to be angry, or not to let the sun go down on your anger, or what it means in practice to love others. You need someone alongside you at that point who is not so much trying to shape your whole understanding (like a teacher), but is bringing that understanding to your particular moment and helping you see what it means; someone who is advising and reminding and encouraging and urging you to do it, and admonishing you when you don't do it.That's the zone that ‘training' belongs in, in my mind. It's helping people translate their understanding into life and action and speech. And it's usually a different mode of education. It's more a matter of being alongside you, helping you to learn what it means, sharing wisdom, and encouraging and exhorting and helping you to grow.Now, I think it's the same, Marty, whether you're talking about training someone to share the gospel or training someone to pray, or to love their wives and children, or to learn not to be so envious. In all the different ways that our life is changed and sanctified as we come to know Christ and his Spirit works within us—in all those ways, there's another mode of instruction and encouragement. Let's call it training if you wish.Marty: How can we make this shift—from just teaching, to also training? To ‘transformative learning', to put it that way?Tony: It starts with listening. Helping someone to shift from where they are starts with seeing where they are. It starts with listening, with having a sufficiently close level of interaction with them, so that you can see where this person is at and where they're up to, and what encouragement and help they need to change.One of the differences between the teaching-preaching mode of mind formation and the more practically immediate mode of training is simply in size and level of interaction. You can teach and form the minds of 500 people at a time if you're a gifted teacher and preacher. But, if I'm going to help each one of those people actually implement something in their lives—to learn how to share or learn how to speak—well, they're all at different points and different places. They all will need different sorts of help. It requires a more micro level of interaction.And, sometimes the problem is simply that we haven't set up structures or contexts for this to happen. We've set up structures to teach, which are larger contexts where one person is teaching 50 people at a time in a 40 minute timeframe or something. But in those structures, you're fairly limited with what you can do at the practically immediate level. You need time and a smaller context—where you can listen, where you can interact, where you can find out where people are up to, where they can try something and then report back.We need opportunities for digging into the particular issues that people have, whether it's in their prayer life or in their sharing the gospel, or whatever it is in their lives that they're seeking to change. At a practical level, it can be that we don't create the contexts within our ministries where that kind of ‘training' can take place. And (tragically) when we do form some of those structures, which are classically what we call ‘small groups', we tend to use them as another teaching time …Marty: Yeah.Tony: … rather than as an opportunity to do that other necessary thing that has to happen in order for the teaching to become lived and practised—which is more interaction, more personal encouragement and exhortation, more wisdom and confession and discussion. More ‘training'.Marty: Yeah. That's a good point. I remember when you and I worked on a course (The Small Group and the Vine) for training small group leaders, and it was very much a course to get new leaders trained—something you said stuck with me. You said, “As small group leaders, we're not just leading people to the Word, we're helping them lead each other to the Word”.We're trying to train them to help each other, so that on their discussions on the way out, and their text exchange throughout the week, as they see each other at a picnic, they're still doing that work when you're not around. You're not the necessary mediator for that. I found that a really helpful mind shift. It's not just me leading them to the Word; it's all of us coming together under the Word, moving towards maturity in Christ.Well, I think there's a lot more to be said, but I think there's some helpful ways to start and we'll keep thinking about this as we work in our own small groups. Thanks for your time, Tony.Tony: Lovely to talk, Marty.Why we need bothReflecting further on ‘training', I think I'd add the following to that conversation:* We need a way of talking about the ongoing process of learning how our convictions are lived out in daily Christ-like action—whether that is in learning to pray, to love our families, to share the gospel with our neighbours, to encourage a new believer, to be patient, or any other aspect of the renewed life. One good English word that encapsulates this is ‘training'—a word that has a more practical edge; that connotes practice, discipline and correction; that contains a mix of instruction, repetition, character-building, practical advice, encouragement and time.* When I think of this kind of ‘training' in the New Testament, the classic vignette that comes to mind is of the older women teaching and training the younger women in Titus 2. In accordance with the healthy doctrine of the gospel (Titus 2:1), the older women are to “teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled” (Titus 2:3b-5). It's one complete package: true gospel doctrine, resulting in a godly character, along with practical instruction and outworkings in daily life. Training is that aspect of ‘learning Christ' that brings the sound doctrine of the gospel to the lived experiences of everyday discipleship.* In this sense, Christian ‘training' is a bit like medical training. At the end of it, the student has not only gained medical skills, but has ‘become a doctor'. They have mastered an array of knowledge, and a set of mental models and frameworks to use in whatever situation presents itself. They have imbibed the culture of what it means to ‘be a doctor'—a set of values and practices and traditions that is more than textbook knowledge, and also more than a set of practical skills. And they have practised and refined and improved their ability to put this knowledge into practice day by day, with colleagues and superiors watching and encouraging and instructing, with hard-won lessons from failure and blessed encouragements from success. I think Christian training is like this.* Training in this sense is for every Christian, not just for leaders, or prospective leaders. It's not just a skill-acquisition phase for people who are about to undertake a particular ministry. It's training in the Christian life, one aspect of which is ministry to others. Many churches are already doing at least some of this every-Christian ‘training' if their small groups are running well—but that is by no means always the case (see my earlier post about this). * Here's a final sharp point for many of us: Is learning to minister the word of God to others—to speak the truth in love to others in various ways—a basic aspect of the Christian life? If so, then it too needs to be the subject of training, just like all facets of Christian living. Are we doing this? Are we training people to be speakers and sharers and conversationalists of the Word: in their homes, in their small groups, at work, in their one-to-one relationships with others, in their conversations after church on Sunday, at their children's bedside? My sense is that we are doing considerably less of this sort of training than we were 20 years ago.Do you agree?PS. If you haven't gotten around to subscribing to The Payneful Truth yet, now would be the perfect time. Just drop your email address in the box below and press the button!PPS. If you'd like to hear more from Marty Sweeney, you can sign up for his regular emails at Matthias Media USA, and check out his Youtube channel for more of his interviews with me and others (including the video version of the conversation above).PPPS. This week's tenuously connected image is a snap of my copy of Bob Dylan's classic Slow Train Coming album. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.twoways.news/subscribe

Did you watch the Launch event that has over 460k people registered!?! Here was my small contribution. On this special episode you will hear Russell at the Mastermind.com launch talking about what it’s like to be called to serve, and the reasons why maybe you’re scared to take the step to accept your calling. Here are some of the awesome things you will hear in today’s episode: Why being afraid to get started is okay, but you’ve got to do it anyway. Why being a “chapter ahead” is a good way to start. And why accepting not accepting your calling could be a tragedy not only for yourself, but for other people too. So listen here to what Russell had to say at the Mastermind.com launch with Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi. ---Transcript--- Hey everyone, this is Russell Brunson. Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets podcast. I’m whispering right now because I’m actually sitting here at Dean Graziosi’s office. Tony Robbins is in the room next door and we are doing this huge launch for the KBB method at mastermind.com, which is kind of crazy. And I’m going to be up in like 30 minutes from now. So I asked my brother when it’s done to rip whatever I say, to make it a podcast episode. So I have no idea what’s going to happen. I don’t know what I’m going to say, hopefully something good comes out of it. But it’s part of a really fun promotion that we’re doing. Last year we did this launch and it was the biggest launch in the history of the internet and this is year two. So hopefully we do well. But I’m going to be sharing stuff about the knowledge of business and being an expert and just all the cool things. So hopefully you guys enjoy it. When we come back from the theme song, as long as nothing goes really, really bad, my brother will be plugging in my part of the presentation from tonight’s live event. So I hope you love it, and we’ll talk soon. Bye everybody. Dean: Look at this, by magic of video, Russell Brunson. Russell: How’s it going man? Tony: Good to see you. Russell: You too. Good to see you. Dean: Good to have you back. Look at, two years in a row. Russell: I know, thanks for inviting me back I’m so happy to be here. Dean: For those of you who don’t know Russell, Russell’s been a dear friend for, I think we’ve known each other for 12 years, since we were both at a charity event. We met, I think it was over a decade. Russell started a company called Clickfunnels, one of the fastest growing, what would you say, what’s the definition of your company beside a world changer? He made being online and marketing and building webpages, I’m using simple terminology, the easiest on the planet. One of the fastest growing SAAS and development companies that’s not backed by other capital, just by bootstrapping. Built one of the most amazing companies on the planet. Tony: And started with no business background, really. Right? Was a wrestler, a dedicated human being and was just wanted to help people. I mean, that’s really your driving force, it still is. You come across as so humble and yet you’re so skilled. And we met when you came to one of my seminars 12 years ago, as well. So we’ve known each all that time, and I’ve just watched you grow geometrically. And you know, in the online business like anyplace else, there are industries where there are people that are extraordinary and there’s a lot of people that are soso, and some that are crooks. And unfortunately, there’s a lot of crooks. You are so the opposite, you offer it with such integrity and such commitment to add value to other people. And we’re privileged to have you as a dear friend, and thank you for coming on. Russell: Thanks. Wow, that was amazing. I’m excited because, I told Dean this before. I got started in this business watching him on infomercials with a pad of paper taking notes like, “this is amazing.” And then Tony, the first time I heard about Tony, I went on EBay and bought every one of your courses, literally every one of them. And then my wife and I listened in the car driving everywhere. And the first time I had a chance to meet you it was one of the most amazing moments of my life. So I’m just grateful to being sitting in the room with you guys, which is so much fun. Dean: So you were back there watching us, sometimes there’s so much information to share you can complicate it. And I just want, I was hoping you could come in and say, what are the parts where we cut through the chase and show people how they can get started on this path? Russell: For sure. I think for everyone who’s watching, you’re listening to this and there’s a reason why you showed up here today. There’s what, 460,000 people registered. So there’s a reason everybody is hearing the message and they showed up to be here. I think then becomes a time where like, hey, if you like what you’re learning there’s the opportunity to go and take the next step. And people get scared all the time. And I’ve kind of found in my time doing this online, there’s usually three main reasons why people don’t get started. And the first one is they’re scared of the vehicle, like the thing. So for this whole opportunity, it’s all about you taking your knowledge and turning it into these amazing things. And I’m not going to spend too much time on that because I think, I mean right there is the stack of what, 1000 Dean: 1100. Russell: 1100 wins in the last 12 months. You’ve seen this is how I’ve built my companies, Tony’s done it, Dean’s done it, Jenna’s done it. It’s not like it’s a new weird thing. It’s there, it’s happening. I think that for most people they believe that like, okay this is actually a legitimate, it’s a real thing, it’s a way that I can serve and I can change people’s lives. But then the second one, this is what I want to spend the most time in, is people’s internal fear of like, “Okay, I believe that this is really, really good, but I don’t know if I can actually do it.” So I want to spend a little bit of time talking about that. And some of my notes I was writing back here, and I think, I’m a big believer in this, and I’m guessing these guys believe the same thing, but I really do believe that business is a calling. Tony: Yes. Russell: It’s a calling that you’ve been called to serve a group of people. And for any of you guys who are here today, my guess is that you heard that calling and it’s like this tug and this pull. And you know, in the new testament it talks about many are called but few are chosen. It’s like, we get the calling, everyone has a chance, you have these opportunities where you’re called and you feel this pressure pulling you into something and you’re not sure what to do and you’re nervous and you’re scared and all these things happen. And most people just walk away from it. You feel the tug and then like, ugh, there’s too much fear, they’re scared or whatever that is. So again, my guess is you’ve felt that calling and you’ve been called to serve and there’s a group of people that you can literally change their life, which is the most amazing feeling I think most of us can have in this life. I have a close friend, Ryan Moran, he had a quote that he told me the other day that I thought was the coolest thing. He said, “An entrepreneur is someone who takes personal responsibility for a problem that is not their own.” If you think about that, most of the world see there’s a problem, “Ah, that’s not mine. That’s not mine.” They’re running away. Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tony: Yeah. Russell: Whereas entrepreneurs are like, “Huh, I think I can fix that. I think maybe I’m the one who’s supposed to be doing that.” And it’s the opposite of what the rest of the world is doing. So you’ve heard that, you’ve felt that calling and it’s like, maybe that’s me. And I look at these 1100 people and how many, 4000 niches? Dean: Yeah, 4000. 4000 yeah. Tony: There’s more than 1100, those are just the ones we printed out. We ran out of this paper. Russell: It’s amazing. So 4000 niches means 4000 problems out there that are being solved. There’s a person like you who’s hearing that and like, “Maybe, that’s my thing. Maybe I’m the one who’s supposed to….” And you know my first business was teaching people to make potato guns, so I was the guy like, that was my first thing. I don’t know if you remember I sent you… Tony: I do remember, you sent me one. Russell: The first time I met Tony I was like, “How do you impress a guy who’s got everything.” So I sent him a potato gun. Tony: It shoots far though. Russell: So fun. But that’s the thing. That’s like our role, we hear the calling and then we’re the ones who say, “Man, that’s a challenge, that’s an opportunity. I’m going to take personal responsibility. I’m going to be the person who does this. Who helps this.” You know, Dean when he started this business he was like, ‘I’m going to be the one who helps people to bring knowledge out>” When Tony started his it was like, “I’m going to be the person who’s going to take this thing.” And I think that’s the thing. Now, what’s interesting I think for most of us, is the calling when you hear it, when you feel it, that feeling, it’s never at a convenient time. Ever. Tony: And you don’t feel prepared when you go for it either. Russell: Yeah, it’s the scariest thing in the… Dean: You’ve got to work your courage muscle. Russell: It’s the scariest thing in the world. And I was looking through just, as I was listening to everybody, I was thinking about some of the people that I’ve had a chance to be around who have a big impact on me, and I’ve seen have a big impact on different industries and different markets. There are a couple of stories that really spoke to me that I want to share with you guys. One of them is from one of my friends, Chris Wark. Chris runs a site called chrisbeatcancer.com. And Chris is a perfect example. He’s a guy living a normal life, everything is happening, and then he comes down with cancer, which is, I can’t even imagine that. And the fear, and all the things that happen with that. He went through the process and he figured out the ways, and eventually was able to cure himself of cancer. And in this time it’s like, he feels this calling of like, I need to help other people, but man, I just got my life back. There’s so many things I could be doing. But that calling, that feeling of I’ve got to help people, I have to give back, I have to serve. I’ve been given so much in my life, I need to help other people. And I’ve seen it transform now thousands of people’s lives because of this challenge he got, which became such a gift. Tony: His mess became his message. We talked about it right. It’s a mess that became something that can help everybody. It’s beautiful. Russell: Yeah, such a cool thing. Another one is Annie Grace, is one of my favorite people. Annie actually had a problem with alcohol addiction, and she was a business woman, she was traveling all around the world and she got to a point where she was doing these meetings with people and everyone went out, and they had a drink and eventually she woke up one day and realized, “I have a problem and I need to stop this thing.” And she didn’t know how to stop it. And she tried a whole bunch of different things to try to overcome that. And none of the traditional routes of things really worked. So she sat down and said, “I have to figure out how do our minds actually work? What causes addictions? What is the thing that’s making it so I can’t break this addiction? No matter how much I try all the different programs that are out there.” And throughout time she figured out the psychological effects and how to shift and how to break it and how to reverse it. And she’s gone on and written books, she does events, she does courses teaching people how to break the chains of alcohol addiction, which also relates to pretty much any addiction. I’ve watched her, she had this thing that was the worst, and like, you just recovered from this problem you had, and all the sudden you feel this calling of like, you need to help people. Why am I qualified, I have the problem. I’m the least qualified person in the world. Tony: That’s actually what makes you the most qualified. When you solve it. Dean: Yep. Russell: 100% Tony: It’s not intellectual, it’s real results. That’s the difference between traditional education and what this is really all about. Russell: And I’ve had a chance to see now with her, just looking at her community, these people’s lives she changed, families she’s saved. All these things because she’s going out there. I assume everyone’s felt that. I’m sure all you guys listening have felt that call and that pull of just, I need to help. Alex Charfen calls it the contribution gap, like I know I need to be doing more. I don’t know what it is, I’m scared, I’m fearful. But it’s like, being willing to take that step, being the entrepreneur saying, “I’m going to take personal responsibility for that problem. I’m going to take it and make it my own.” So that’s kind of the first step in this process. One question that we got on the questions I was reading through here was, “Who’s going to listen to me? I’m just a person.” And I don’t know, I always kind of laugh, when I go back home tonight, I’m going to back to my family and I’m just a person. But here I am right. But we’re all that way. I think a lot of times we’re scared of, I don’t know if I’m, I’m not qualified yet. Or maybe when I get to this certain point, then I’ll be ready. Then I’ll be ready. And we have this, we call it the manana principle, it’s like, tomorrow, manana, manana I’ll be ready, and keep pushing it off til forever and it never actually happens. And there’s a movie, Catch Me If You Can,  have you guys seen that? Dean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tony: Yeah, of course. Russell: And there’s also a book and the book version is a little bit longer than the movie. There’s a, it’s a story of a guy who’s a con artist, so it’s not the best role model. Dean: It’s a fun movie. Tony: I’ve met the guy, he’s a real guy. Russell: Oh, did you really? Tony: Yeah, it’s a true story. Russell: Well in the book he tells this story when he actually, between all the different things he did, he was an airline pilot, he was a doctor, he did all these different crazy things. And one thing, he went to Brigham Young University and actually became a sociology professor. He walked in one day, there was no teacher, he grabbed the book and gets up there and teaches an entire semester of advanced sociology. Later when the feds catch him for all the crazy things he’s done, they ask him, “how did you teach a semester of advanced sociology to these people?” and he’s like, “Oh, it was easy, I just got the book and read one chapter ahead.” I think what’s interesting, it’s so true for all of us. We’re thinking, when I’m Tony Robbins, then I’ll go serve the people and I’m going to help people. It’s like, no, you can help people today. You look back, who am I one chapter ahead? Who am I one or two steps ahead of that I can look back and start helping? If I would have waited to share my message about, you know, I teach people how to build companies with sales funnels. If I would have waited until I was ready, I never would have been ready. In fact, talking about this whole concept of if the calling is never convenient, I remember when I started this company it was like I had built up a company, it collapsed, I’d fired 80 people, I was in the brink of bankruptcy. I literally emailed a bankruptcy lawyer, we were talking through all the things and all the sudden I felt the calling. I was like, what? It was like, you need to start talking about this story. I’m like, I don’t want to tell this, this is a horrible story.  I don’t want to tell it. Dean: This is a horrible story. Russell: And for me, I started sharing it. I started a podcast, I started talking about it, I started talking about it, I started talking about it, I started talking about this journey I was going on. And it was painful and it was embarrassing. And at first, it’s kind of interesting because when you first start talking, I think a lot of times we’re nervous because it’s like, people are going to make fun of us. But at the beginning nobody is actually listening to you, so it doesn’t really matter. At the beginning that’s the chance for you to find your voice and learn how to actually do it. So it’s not about how to actually do it. It’s about you learning your voice and how to do the thing, and getting a chapter ahead of the times. And after you get a chapter ahead, you can look back and start helping people. So I’m in the middle of the brink of bankruptcy, and I feel the calling, start publishing, start doing a podcast, doing whatever. I start sharing these messages, and I started to figure out my stuff. And really quick all these people started kind of following me. And like, oh my gosh, Russell’s a couple of steps ahead. And I could look back and start helping them as well. I think that’s the big thing to understand. And then the last thing internal I think that, I don’t want anyone to think this business is always going to be so easy, I’m going to get rich overnight. That’s not what this is. This is a career, this is a lifestyle, this is a mission. This is something to be driven beyond that. And I think a lot of times we’re like, “Okay, I’m going to sign up for KBB tonight, and then next week I’m going to make 50,000 dollars.” That’s not how this works. That’s not the game. The game is you come out here and you’re building a business, you’re building a career, this is a lifestyle. This is something more than any of those other things. And I was reading a blog post the other day from one of my friends, Nathan Barry, and the blogpost was called, Endure Long Enough To Get Noticed. And in this blogpost he talked about, he said, “How many movies or TV shows did you not hear about until season 3 or 4 or 5? Dean: Yeah, yeah. Tony: Well, Seinfeld was a total failure and nobody was going to do it. Ended up being one of the greatest of all time. Dean: Yeah. Russell: Exactly, and I think what happened, there was so much content, so many people, so many things happening, so much noise happening that us as humans, we wait to see what’s going to stick around long enough to actually rise to the top. So for a lot of us it’s understanding that and going into this like, this isn’t going to be an overnight thing. This is something I’m getting into, this is going to be a business, but I’m going to start the process and I’m going to get a chapter ahead, and then a second chapter, and I’m going to be learning this. And as you keep doing that, that’s the process, and if you endure long enough…like if you start today, and then a month from now, 2 months from now, 6 months from now, a year from now. A year from now you’re going to be in that big old stack of paper. And then 2 years from  now you’re going to be up here on stage and you’re going to take Jenna’s seat and you’ll be telling your story. But it’s all about enduring long enough to get noticed. Keep doing the thing, keep doing the thing. So I hope that helps you guys, those who are thinking, “I don’t know if I could do it.” You could ask my friends in high school and my family members and stuff like, that, in fact, I served a mission for my church and we had the guy who’s kind of the lead of the mission, he’s called a mission president. And he came to our last event we did, and he said, “man, of all the people that I worked with 20 years ago, you were the least likely that I would have ever thought would be this person.” And it doesn’t have to do with your skills now, it has to do with you talking and sharing, and the more you do it, the better you’ll get and the more comfortable. So again, the first thing, the first big fear is that people are scared of the vehicle. I don’t know if this is for me. I promise you, this works. It’s worked for so many people. Number two is, can I do it? And the answer is yes, you can do it. And the third fear people have is the external fear of, “Well, I believe that this is right, I believe that I could do it. I just don’t know how to do it.” That’s the whole point. You shouldn’t know how to do it. That’s why we have KBB for you so you can go and figure it out. That’s the best part. Tony: Save yourself years and years. And also what you said earlier is really true. I want to save you, but I always tell people, most people overestimate what they’ll do in a year, and underestimate what they’ll do in a decade. Look at what’s happened to you, and I’ve known you this last decade, the growth has been insane. But you know, I always overestimated, but because I kept doing it, endured, it just grows and grows, and when you got multiple decades on you, you’ll be in a place you never dreamed of. So that may sound too far off for people who want an instant answer. But you do have an instant answer. You have the answer of what to do now, so you start with, like I did, 7 people, then you go to your 20 and your 50 and your 100. And pretty soon you’ve built something that you’re unbelievably proud of because it’s meaningful and it’s impactful, and you’ve been able to take care of your family and have the kind of economical freedom that you want. And you’re a perfect example of that Russell. Russell: Thank you. Tony: Also a perfect example of what integrity is. You have tremendous integrity. You are always looking to add more value, the same as us, I think it’s why you’ve prospered so much, brother. Russell: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Dean: Yeah, and it’s great. I mean, you write books on this. You help people uncover, and you know, Jenna was right, we call it unpackaging your super power, exposing your super power, and it sounds so big, but when you look at people helping parents with eczema, or through a divorce, or the examples you gave here, you realize your mess could be your message. Or just that thing you didn’t realize took you 5years to figure out, there’s somebody starting on day one and they need it. So before, only because I know we’re getting late here, and I want to give everybody the opportunity, but I don’t want to leave without any last words or any last thoughts. Russell: Yes, I have one last, in fact it’s a quote. So I’m going to quote someone much greater than me, if that’s okay, because this one of my favorite quotes of all time, and hopefully this will ring true for you. This is from Sir Winston Churchill. He said, “To each there comes in their lifetime a special moment when they are figuratively tapped on the shoulder and offered a chance to do a very special thing unique to them, and fitted to their talents. What a tragedy if that moment finds them unprepared, or unqualified for that which could have been their finest hour.” Dean: Wow. That is… Russell: For everyone listening, again, business is a calling. You have been called to serve a group of people. You have been called to change their lives and you felt that. That’s why you’re here, that’s why you’re still on 2 hours into this thing, because you’re feeling it, and you know this is for you but you’re scared and you’re nervous, and all those things. And it’s okay. You should be scared. Do you think I’m not scared coming out here and hanging with you? I’m shaking in my boots right now. It’s okay. You still gotta show up and just do the thing, because there are people out there that are waiting for you to change their lives and you can’t do it until you take that first step. Because the chance is going to come where you could have changed someone’s life, but if you’re not prepared what a tragedy that would be for you. But more importantly, what an even bigger tragedy it is for them. So take advantage, move forward because you have the ability to change somebody’s life. And the tools you’re going to learn in this process will help you be able to do that. A lot of times we worry about ourselves when we make a decision like this, “How is it going to affect me?” and things like that. And I would challenge you to flip it around the other way. Who are the people I’ve been called to serve? How will me taking a step change their lives? Tony: Or your family. Russell: Yeah, your family, people around you. It’s interesting, when you shift away from “How am I going to make money?” to “How can I serve people?” the money will come, it just does. But that, I can’t tell you. I’ve had a lot of big wins in my life, and it’s like, “it’s really fun.” But when you can have a chance to help someone else have that impact and you see them win, there’s nothing better than that in the world. And you guys will have a chance to experience that. Some of you for the first time in your lives. And you have a chance to do that, and you see somebody else’s light bulb go off, and their life change, you’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, I was a little piece in that journey.“ There is no better feeling than that in the whole world. So I hope you guys can all experience that as you go through this program and change the lives of the people you’ve been called to serve.

Jay: Hello. My name is Jay Walter, and this is rebuilding. Oliver Wendell Holmes said, a mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions. So let's stretch our minds, find answers to problems, overcome fears, and rebuild our first kingdom. Welcome to another episode of rebuilding. I'm your host Jay Walter. Today we have a very special guest. His name is Tony Lloyd. Tony Lloyd is a TEDx speaker, podcast host and bestselling author of crazy good advice. 10 lessons learned from 150 leading social entrepreneurs. He is a former fortune 500 executive with extensive experience in strategic planning, talent management and leadership development. Tony is the host of the podcast social entrepreneur where he shares positive stories from under represented voices focused on solutions. Welcome, Tony. I appreciate you spending some time with me today. Tony: Well, thanks for having me on, Jay. I really appreciate you having me. Jay: Oh, it's always nice to have a, another voice and another point of view on things about, uh, rebuilding or, or, uh, taking charge of your life. Yeah, so, exactly. So tell me a little bit about what makes Tony, Tony? Tony: Uh, well, besides the insanity, I guess. Uh, so I, you know, I think in the, in the spirit of rebuilding, um, I, I had a corporate career and I, um, was, uh, you know, vice president in charge of learning and development talent, uh, talent development, uh, all those kinds of things. And I, I kinda came to this point where I thought, you know, it seems that corporations are focusing primarily on shareholder value, uh, in sometimes we as corporate executives, we do that to the exclusion of other important stakeholders like our employees or like the planet we live on. Right? And so, so I, uh, I, I kinda had a little existential crisis. Uh, this was several years ago. And so I made the decision to leave my corporate life and to go out and to do something else. Um, so I, I've had some, some fits and starts in different things that I've tried. Tony: I tried a little consulting work, but honestly, nobody cared because I really wasn't, I wasn't that differentiated from any other consultant that they could've hired. Uh, and I did a few other things, but one of the things I started doing was I started writing a book and while I was writing the book, I started interviewing people. And as I was interviewing people, uh, I came to believe that the, the, the audio files of the interviews would be highly valuable to people. So that's when I started looking into podcasting and I started the podcast and it's really, the podcast is called social entrepreneur, but it's really about, um, you know, how businesses use the power of business to do social good. So that, that was my, uh, you know, my launch of that. And, you know, today we're heard in over 180 countries. We just passed half a million downloads. Tony: Uh, and so, you know, at some level, uh, we've had great success. Right? Yeah. But, but about a year ago, I was really struggling with like the big questions. Right. You know, well, the simple questions, things like, you know, what's the meaning of life, you know, if you've got the answer to that one is a pretty good answer. Right. So, so, um, you know, I, I really had kind of a crisis of the soul in a way where I was just, I was really struggling with what's kind of the point, right? So I, I, I go to sleep, I wake up in the morning, I eat some food to provide calories so I can go out and go for a run and maybe do some work during the day. And whether I do that work or I don't do that work, you know, not a lot of people notice if I, if I produce an episode today or I don't produce an episode today, you know, people, people aren't gonna lose sleep over that. Tony: So, uh, it's surprising to me to know that I am not the center of their universe. So, uh, so, you know, at some point, um, you start kind of thinking, what is the point of all this? You know, that, that I, you know, I take in calories to burn calories to do stuff, to get to bed so I can go to sleep. So I can wake up tomorrow so I can go do that thing again. Right. And, and so that was a, about a year ago, well, it was actually December, 2018 when I really kinda had, um, a pretty strong awakening to that question. Like, what am I here for? What's, what's the purpose of life? Um, you know, why are we here on earth? And so that was a, that was a beginning of this journey that we're going to talk about a little bit, but I'll, I'll just kind of pause there and figure out if you have any questions about that or comments. Jay: Well, my, my question, that thing we talk about most of the time is, uh, when you make big changes like this, there's gotta be some fear of the unknown. And how did you kind of face that or overcome that fear and, and, and start overcoming these obstacles and, and questions in your mind? Tony: Yeah. Um, you know, I, uh, I had, uh, had a breakfast meeting with a friend of mine. His name's Michael. Very, very good guy. I'm going to owe him for the rest of my life. Um, but, um, you know, he asked me how things were going and I just sort of told him I'm kind of struggling with these existential questions. And, and, and what he recognized in me was he recognized anxiety and he recognized depression. And, and, and so he made a recommendation about a book, uh, and the book is called lost connections. It's by a guy named Johann Hari. And I highly recommend this book. Uh, I'll send you some links to that if you want. But, um, Johann Hari, he did a, uh, uh, multi-year investigation into the causes of, uh, depression and anxiety. And when, when my friend Michael said to me, he said, you know, it seems to me that you're depressed. Tony: And I said, you know, I think I am because I'm, you know, any, so why, why do you think that you are depressed? I said, you know, actually it, you know, I have a pretty good life, you know, I mean, really, I live this life of privilege. Uh, so I really don't, I felt guilty for feeling depressed, right? I, I felt like, uh, I almost don't have the right to be depressed. Uh, you know, I have a good family. I have a good, uh, you know, income I have, you know, lots of everything is working in my life. So I kinda felt guilty for feeling depressed. Right. Um, but, um, this Johann Hari he found, Oh, in what I said to Michael, I said to him what I had been said to me many times, which is, well, my brain is low on serotonin and it's a natural cycle thing for me and I probably need just some more sunshine. Tony: And maybe, um, you know, I'm not going to take Prozac right now, but I might take us some st John's worked and you know, maybe get my brain back in balance. And so he said, well, let me, let me just send you this, uh, interview with this guy, Johann Hari. And it was on a podcast by a guy named ritual. Uh, and Johann talked about his book lost connection and he had found nine different causes of anxiety and depression and only two of them had anything to do with your genes or your brain chemistry. So he had found that things like, uh, being disconnected for meaningful work or being disconnected from other people or being disconnected from, um, you know, from status and respect or the natural world. And he found all these different causes for anxiety and depression. Wow. And, and so it was really interesting because the story I thought I understood about anxiety and depression wasn't true. Tony: Um, and that there were these, these other things that contributed to, um, to these feelings. So what I did was I said, okay, look, a lot of these things are within my control that I have agency. I don't have to sit here and continue to live where I'm at. So I made this decision that I was going to live my best year ever in 2019. I just said, that's it. I, I'm just gonna, uh, live a year of personal best. And, um, so, so I, I, that's what I made up my mind to do. That's what I did in the last year in, I'll just pause here and let you ask any questions or, or have any reflections. So w how, how do you deem what your best year is? What, what makes you think that this is your best year? Did you read my notes? Cause I, I, you know, it's like you cued me up exactly for what I wanted to talk about. Tony: Um, so the, you know, I think that was a big, uh, question for me. So if I live my best year ever, what would that look like? And if I did, how would I know? Right, right. How do you measure your best year? Um, and so, um, I, I have every year what I do is I do this, um, self-assessment and it, it's made up of these, um, and it's based on a book by Michael, uh, Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy. And the name of the book is living forward. And, um, and so, uh, Michael Hyatt has this sort of self assessment that goes with that. And I've been doing it every year, uh, 2017 in January, 2018, 2019. Uh, and I did it again at the end of 2019 to say, you know, how am I doing? And so, um, what they have is they have what they call their three circles of life. Tony: So the circle of beam and within the circle of being, it's like, you know, your internal self. And so, um, it, it's your physicality, it's your emotionality, it's your intellectual. Um, it's your spiritual. So you know, physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, those are all about who you are, how you are in the world. Then there's a life circle of relating. That's the second circle relating. And so relating is about marriage, fuel, parental and societal. Okay. And then there is the circle of doing, so that's vocational, avocational and financial. And so they have these three circles. And altogether within those three circles, they have these 10 domains. And so it's like on a scale of, and this is an odd number on a scale of one to 12, where are you? And the reason they go one to 12 is they have four core tiles, right? You know, a 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. Tony: And within each of those they have kind of a high, medium and low. And so you can, you can grade yourself. Um, and it's a self assessment, but you can assess yourself against these, um, these 12 areas. Uh, I'm sorry, these 10 domains within three circles on a scale of one to 12. And so that's what I did. I have done that at the beginning of every year. And it just so happened right after I met with Michael, my friend who talked to me about, you know, depression and anxiety and all that. Um, he, he said, look, you know, um, here's this book by Johann Hari. It's about these different causes of depression. I made the decision that I had some advocacy that some agency that I could do some things about it. And so my measurement to begin all that at the beginning of the year was this, this lifestyle, if you will. Jay: Yeah. Okay. So that, that sounds very similar to our five kingdoms that, uh, I kind of told you about the, the inner-self that, the spiritual connection with deity and then your family and friends and associates, and then the world, how you affect all of those. And so, yeah, that sounds like a, um, an excellent way to, to really judge where you are when you start and where you are when you finish. So at the end of 2019, when you did that assessment, how did it turn out? Tony: Well, it was, it was a, it was really good. Um, so in those 10 areas, I had grown in my self assessment about 10% across all of them. And, um, and so let me just take one of those as an example. So in, uh, 2019 in physical, one of the things that I did was I said, okay, I need to get some sleep. And, um, you know, one of the things about if you, if you say, you know, what am I really trying to do here? I'm really trying to thrive, right? Um, I'm trying to thrive. And so, uh, I love Aryana Huffington's work on thrive and one of her main things like her only thing almost is just, you know, get some sleep, get a good night's sleep. And honestly, I think that I had forgotten, you know, I had, I had this global role in fortune 500 companies and I had flown all over the world and I do these phone calls in the middle of the night, in the middle of the morning and all this. Tony: And it had actually been years since I've really had a string of decent sleep. And just that one thing alone, just making a decision that I'm going to measure how much I sleep each night and I get, I, I got a Garmin watch and I wear to bed and you know, it tells me how much deep sleep I got, REM sleep. I go, Oh, you've got the fit, fit, fit, fit. Yeah. And so, you know, just if you take nothing else and you, you know, for me, if I took nothing else, if I did nothing else physically, that was a huge change maker. Okay. Um, I also, I, I really got serious about running, uh, in 2019, I ran 1,790 miles, which is the equivalent of running from Minneapolis to Miami. Now, um, uh, some people have told me that, you know, they could run that far if a bear was chasing them. Tony: Right. But, uh, but for me, I enjoy running and, and part of the running, you know, if you think about these different things of being connected, being connected to nature is a big part of that. Uh, I run with a group, so I get social connections with that. And, and so there are all these different things. Running is almost like, it's almost like an analogy. It's almost like a metaphor for all these other things that I do in life and it's connected to every other area of my life. Um, and I was, uh, I was using, there's a, uh, an app called Strava, S T R, a, V, a Strava, and it's for people who bike and run and walk and hike and all that. And you can upload your workouts to Strava and it will keep track of it, but it also calculates, for example, your fitness level based on heart rate effort, you know, respiration during exercise, et cetera. Tony: And according to Strava, Strava said that across 2019, my fitness level went up 218%. Wow. Yeah. Um, the other thing, you know, and we're just focused right now on physical, the other thing that I did last year was I started a plant based diet. So I made the decision that I wanted to, uh, eat whole foods and to eat Plains. Um, there's a guy, um, I can't think of his name, right. Nobody wrote a book called in defense of food. And, uh, he said at the beginning of his book, he said, you know, I could have written this entire book on a three by five index card because my advice about food is eat food, not too much. Mostly plants. That's his advice. Yeah. And, and, and he said, but we've forgotten what food is, you know, we, uh, doesn't come in a box. Yeah. Excuse me. Tony: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Pardon me. While I cough here, I'm talking about how well I did physically and on the coffee. Um, but uh, based on, you know, my diet, my exercise and everything, my LDL levels are down 29% for the year. Triglycerides are down 38%, cholesterol is down 40%. And my white was down 16.4 pounds. So, you know, in each of these areas of my life, I spent time saying, how do I really, um, you know, uh, live my best year. And so that's, that's an example on a physical. And so I could take any one of these and sort of talk about what did I do and how did I do it? But really it's about understanding that you have agency that you have choices to make, um, and that you get to make them Jay: well, that's, that's uh, what I like to talk about all the time is that you have choices. You're the one that makes those choices. You're, nobody makes you offended. You choose to be offended. Nobody makes you mad. You choose to be mad. No one makes you fat. You choose to put food in your mouth like I do every day. And you know, that's one of my struggles and one of the things I have issues with, but, but yeah, we all have this agency, this, this ability to choose. That's what makes us, I guess, different from many of the creatures on this, this planet. We choose what we do to the planet and to ourselves and to things around us, our environment. Tony: Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting Jay. Um, I think that, uh, especially, uh, uh, in our, my dog is trying to get in my lap here. He's be crazy. Give me a bud. Um, alright. So, um, one of the things that I was thinking about when I was thinking about, you know, how do I get started on this, uh, is really kind of this, um, cycle of despair or cycle of positive habits. And so, um, the cycle of despair, the way I think about it is, uh, you know, thoughts lead to choices, lead to behaviors, lead to feelings and those thoughts, they, they impact the choices we make, the choices we make, they impact the behaviors we do. And then when we do certain behaviors, they create feelings. And those feelings reinforce the same thoughts and behaviors, thoughts, choices, and behaviors, right? So we get stuck in these cycles where again, and again, we're just doing the same things over and over again. Tony: Um, and I heard recently, um, uh, there was a guy named Joe, I think his name's Joe Dispenza. He has a, uh, video series called rewired. Um, and, and I don't know that I do or do not recommend that video series, but it was interesting, right? You know, uh, but one of the things he said I thought was really interesting is, uh, the average human thinks between 60 and 70,000 thoughts per day. And about 95% of those thoughts are the exact same thoughts that she or he thought yesterday. So we think about it like, you know, where are my car keys? I'm hungry, you know, uh, where's the dog? What's he doing right now? You know, is it time to go for a walk? Uh, you know, so, so we become habitualized as human beings. And, and part of breaking through part of, uh, of contributing in a bigger way is we, uh, we have to break that thought pattern first, right? Tony: And then that leads to new choices, new behaviors and new feelings. Um, you know, as I, as I circle back kinda to that, you know, the big questions about why are we here on earth? To me it's, we're here to connect and we are here to contribute, right? That Walt Whitman about, you know, you, you have a chance to, to, um, provide a verse, right? Right. You, you, you get to, you get to contribute a verse. That's it. Um, excuse me. And so, um, we're here to connect with one another and we're here to contribute. But to do that, you can't pour from an empty vessel. So self care becomes really vital. And, and the vitality and the, and the wellness and the, um, thriving. That's the thing that allows us to connect in healthy ways. And that's the thing that allows us to contribute in healthy ways, but it kinda begins within. Yeah, yeah, Jay: absolutely. I believe that absolutely. That you cannot give what you don't have. You can't pour from an empty cup and, but every time you refill that cup, it actually grows. So you have mornings give, which is, which is the miracle of what all this is talking about. So very good. Well, let's, let's take a quick break here and uh, have some messages and then we'll be right back. Let's talk about your, your book from there. Speaker 4:   Jay: Welcome back to rebuilding. We've had a wonderful discussion so far, so far with Tony Lloyd and, and now I'd like to continue Tony with a little more information or a little what? Tell us about your book, the, uh, um, crazy, good advice. I always love crazy good advice. So, Tony: right, right. Well, uh, there's not a lot of crazy good advice in the book, but, uh, but here's, here's kind of where it started. I, um, you know, I mentioned I have a podcast and the podcast is called social entrepreneur. And I had been interviewing people and at the end of each interview I said, you know, um, w what's one key piece of advice, something that you've learned on your journey that you would pass along to others? Right. And I, um, I, I began to notice that there was a pattern. It's like I kept hearing some of the same pieces of advice again and again, I began to stitch them together mind a little bit. So I took my, um, I'm kind of a spreadsheet kind of guy. So I took my a Google spreadsheet. They had all my guests listed on it and I wrote out the advice in one column beside their name. Tony: And so I went through and I wrote it all out. And then I began, I went back and I started categorizing them and then I sorted the spreadsheet and it turned out that there were like 10 things that kept being repeated again and again. So I thought, Oh, well there's these 10 key pieces of advice that, you know, the first 150 guests that I'd had on my show had given. And so isn't that interesting? So I started trying to write a blog post and this thing was just getting out of hand. Um, and then my wife and I were at an event and I'll try to fast forward through this pretty quickly, but my wife were, uh, and I were at an event and, um, it was a play. And the two ladies sitting behind us were having a conversation. My wife is a very friendly, so she turned around the interview, deuced herself to them. Tony: And at the end of the day, um, you know, we were just sort of chit chatting and they said, one of the ladies said, Oh, I, um, you know, work at a radio station. I said, well, I have a podcast. Isn't that interesting? Maybe we should have coffee sometime. So we exchange business cards. I didn't think anymore about it. Well she took the, the business card and she listened to my podcast and then she went to the president of the radio station and she said, Hey, you should listen to this. So the guy called me up and he said, look, we've got a drive time slot coming open 10 or I'm a seven to 8:00 AM in the morning. And he said, I would love to put you in that slot. Um, could you do that? And I thought, well, okay, I'm going to need a little help if I'm going to do that. Tony: Uh, because uh, you know, the thing about radio, and you probably know this better than I do to think about, you know, broadcast radio is you have to hit your Mark, right? You know, you have to, you have to come in just at the right time and you have to take that commercial break at exactly the right time. And you have to, you know, and mine was an hour long show, so there were two segments. So it was a first hour with a break and there was a second hour of the break. And so it was kind of complicated and I was trying to schedule all these guests and everything. So what I did was I decided to do a crowdfunding campaign and um, and a friend of mine named Tom who, uh, is Australia, he has a crowd funding, you know, like Kickstarter's a crowd funding platform. Tony: Well he has one called start some good and it's really specifically made for people who had social good businesses. And so I thought, well I'll, I'll reach out to Tom and you know, see what he thinks about this. And so Tom told me, he goes, look, your, your friends and family are going to contribute. Just get over it. They're going to contribute, but it's their friends and family that you want to bring in. And the thing they'll come in for is some kind of spiff and that spiff should be something that only you can provide. And I was like, man, what would that be? And I go, well, you know, I've got this blog post that is just like, it's really out of hand. And I was thinking, wouldn't that be an interesting book? And here's what it's about. And Tom, his name's Tom Dawkins, he's from Australia. Tony: He's like, yes, yes, I would buy that book right now. And he was like practically jumped through the phone at me. And so I was like, okay, well I guess we're going to do that. So it, so in order to put on our radio program, which I had never done, I needed to do a crowdfunding program, which I had never done. And in order to do that I needed to, you know, write a book is, so that's what we did. We, uh, my wife illustrated the book. It's really a cool book. It's got all these great illustrations in it and um, and it's really these 10 pieces of advice that we put together from all these guests. But the, but the title, crazy good advice. It comes from this one guy and his name is Looney liberos. So if you're going to get some advice from somebody, you're going to get advice from somebody may loony, right? Tony: Absolutely. So, uh, Looney said is his one key piece of advice was this, and it was a little different than everybody else's. He said, look, when you're going to start something big like a business, he said, your friends and your family and your mom and extended relatives are all going to tell you that you are crazy. And he said, and I'm here to tell you they are right, that if you're going to do something world changing, you have to be a little bit crazy to do this thing. And it is going to be, it is going to be a journey of perils, right? It's going to be the hardest thing you have ever done in your entire life. And so if you're going to be crazy enough to do something like that, you might as well make the biggest impact you can possibly make. And so that's where the title of a book, it's this crazy good advice. You know, like you'd have to be crazy to do this stuff. So we've got these 10 different pieces of advice and we've got stories and it's illustrated. My wife did the illustrations and it is just, you know, it's really funny because when people read the book, I go, what did you think of the book? They go, those illustrations were amazing. Like, did you see any words in the book? Did you happen to notice that? So Jay: it, any of that make any difference to the word thing? Tony: Uh, so the, so the beauty of, uh, of that is, um, you know, the illustrations, the way the book is laid out, and it is the thing that makes the book remark a bowl, right? So it's the thing that people remark on. And, and so that's a, you know, that, that's kind of the story of the book. Oh, and one last thing, we gave the book away for free as a spiff for the crowdfunding. And when the crowdfunding was over, we go, well, we've got a book. What are we going to do with it? Well, I tell you what, let's just put it on Amazon and we put it on Amazon and it turned into a bestseller. It's like, Oh darn, this is crazy. It's like, you know, I'm doing the little, like the little emoji with the exploding brain here. I'm just, yeah, it is. It is just the craziest thing. And so we, you know, we did the crowdfunding, we sold the book and um, and here we are today. So that's kind of the story of the book. Jay: No, that's, that sounds fantastic. That I can imagine people, uh, being drawn to that just for, you know, we're all looking for that advice of, of how to do the things we want to do and if we find some kernel somewhere, um, it's worth the, the effort to find that kernel. So. Absolutely. Um, so your podcast, social entrepreneurs, how, what kind of things do you talk about there? What, what's your, it's a good [inaudible] Tony: it's a good question. You know, you were, uh, you were, uh, in the, uh, intro here, you, you mentioned this, that we, we tell positive stories from underrepresented voices focused on solutions. And so when, one thing we try to do is you could find negative stories almost anywhere. You know, I almost, I cannot turn on the news on my radio in my car anymore. I just can't do it. Yeah. Yeah. I cannot drive and pound on the steering wheel at the same time, you know, so, so we're, we're really trying to find stories of, uh, where something positive happened at. But, you know, when I say positive stories, I don't mean, um, you know, this lady makes a pajamas for goats. And isn't that cute? Right? I, I'm talking about people who really make an impact. And so, uh, from underrepresented voices, we're really trying to find those voices that you aren't hearing everywhere else in the world. Tony: So I have interviewed people that are well known. You know, there's bill Drayton, the head of the Shoko, or, uh, Cheryl Dorsey, who's the head of echoing green. And so these are organizations that are big and global. And you know, lots of people within my circle of influence. Lots of people have heard of them, but I also interview people who, um, you know, the, uh, uh, uh, Maria Costa Cheka, she's, um, she, uh, has a, an organization called, uh, uh, Laboratoria and it's in Peru. And what they do is they train poor women to code so that they can become employed and, you know, have a skillset that will raise them and their family out of poverty. And so that's a, you know, a good example of that. Uh, and so, um, we tell positive stories from underrepresented voices. So often women entrepreneurs, often people of color, often, you know, just other people that you may not just run into every day at the mall. Tony: Right. And, and so, um, and who, um, focused on solutions. So we, we, um, we focus on a thing called solutions journalism and solutions. Journalism is this, it's tell the whole story, right? So solutions journalism is, you start with, um, you know, the story of here's the problem. So let's take, you know, climate change, or let's take, uh, you know, uh, extreme poverty or hunger or, you know, lack of access to clean water or any of these things, right? You start with that problem, but then you present and here's somebody who's working on that and they're making a dent in the universe. So the problem with most of the stories, like, let's take global warming, for example. You know, if you're driving down the road and you listen to a story and somebody is talking about climate change, they're going to talk about rising sea levels and they're going to talk about, you know, um, the coral reef is dying in a good talk about, you know, um, all kinds of crazy things, right? Tony: And, and that's all you're going to hear. You're going to say the world is, any of the world is ending, but what we want to say is, yes. You know, the climate is obviously changing the, you know, we can't deny that, but here are some people who are doing some things that are solutions, you know, um, uh, there's a guy who, uh, who has, uh, uh, a, um, solar panel project on the local, uh, reservation up here and they call it solar bear. And he is employing, um, you know, indigenous people, native Americans to build solar panels. And, you know, not only is he providing employment, but he is providing electricity and, you know, clean energy and all these things, you know, and, and what's interesting to me is I have been, um, speaking about, uh, climate change and about clean energy and these things. And the places I'm getting invited to are, um, and I don't mean for this to be a political statement, but they are surprisingly politically conservative. Tony: Um, that, that I thought that these would be people who would not want to have this conversation, but these are people who want to have a conversation because they know that there are solutions at hand. And, and so, um, you know, I was just in a Chicago County, um, uh, Wisconsin. Uh, they, they, uh, or Chisago County, Minnesota, right on the, uh, uh, Wisconsin border. Uh, they, um, they voted, uh, 65% of them voted for Donald Trump in the last election. Uh, and they were all ears and sitting at the edge of their seat to talk about clean energy solutions and how they could participate in them. And so, you know, it, it's something that goes across political divides. It goes across all these things. So it's really about focusing on solutions. It's not talking about, you know, what are our political arguments? Or how are we going to disagree? You know, that's really the thing that we're trying to do with this social entrepreneur podcast is to, uh, is to bring forth, uh, people with real solutions to real world problems who are really making them Jay: well, that's being an engineer by training. Um, that's this, the fearmongering is what I call it. Every, the world's going to end. Yeah. That doesn't right. Affect me. That it's like, well, yeah, I've, I heard in the 70s we're going to have another ice age. And, and it's like, give me solutions. If you, if you say this is happening, what solution do you want me to work on? I'm an engineer. I can fix things if you tell me what to do or tell me what you would like to see. Yeah. Um, so yeah, that, that's much more effective to me and I am of more of the conservative end of the spectrum and, you know, doesn't matter here, but, but yeah, give me a solution that you want me to or, or if I have a solution, listen to the solution, not just say, well, I don't care what your solution is. I, the world's going Tony: to end. Right. But yeah, I like that. You know, it's been, it's been interesting because people have been coming up with solutions about, um, uh, reducing energy cost in buildings, right? So it's not just about clean energy. Only only 25% of the CO2 that we're producing is produced through energy production. But if you think about, uh, other things, so, uh, you know, buildings is a big, uh, user of energy. And so if you can find ways to be more efficient, and here's what I really like about all that, and we're, you know, we've kinda gone down the climate change, so we might want to climb back out. But, um, one thing I like about it is a lot of, um, energy solutions are also the frugal solutions. And so my wife, we love to save money, right? So, you know, you tell me I can, uh, save money with some led light. I'm gonna listen to you because it doesn't matter what my political affiliation is. I want to know what solutions are good. It doesn't come out of my pocket. So much so. Okay. So, exactly. In your, um, in your greatest year, last year, what were some of the strengths that you discovered in yourself that you maybe didn't know about before? Tony: Wow, that is such a good question. Um, you know, part, part of what I think is I had an opportunity to apply the strengths that I had. Right. You know, it's, I, I have, um, because I was in this sort of, um, talent management, talent development. I had a ton of these sort of self-assessments, you know, disc surveys or, uh, you know, all these strengths finders, all these things. So I think I was, you know, somewhat aware of my strengths. Um, but I, I think I, it gave me an opportunity to apply some of those strengths. Um, but let me, let me think for a second about your question. You know, I, I think really, um, understanding that thing we talked about while ago about how our thoughts lead to our choices lead to our behaviors that create feelings that reinforce thoughts, choices, and behaviors. I think it's kind of like it was there, but I didn't see it, you know, like that thing existed, but I wasn't aware. Tony: It's, it's okay. I'm going to tell you really, I'm gonna tell you two really quick stories. Okay. So, um, a story number one, I, it's, uh, like July or August of 1991. And I am in Maine and I am, uh, driving on a little country road in Washington County, Maine. And so, you know, if you, Washington County is kinda in that South Eastern corner of Maine. And so, you know, you're near new Brunswick, you're near Nova Scotia. And so, you know, you're, you're way up there in the Northeast corner. And, um, and so I'm driving, uh, in this area and I've, you know, I'm scouting out this place. I wanted to go hiking on this trail and it was a trail had around there somewhere, but this, I ended up in this place and they call it the Berets in Maine. And the reason they call it the Barron's is it's kind of the place where the glaciers sort of skidded off the edge of the continental shelf there and went out into the ocean and it left behind sort of this scraped off rubble. Tony: You know, like right now there's snow on the ground up here in the Northern hemisphere and it's going to start melting off. And when it does, it's going to be like this gritty, ugly black who left behind. Right? Well, that's kind of what the ground was like around this area called the barons. And, um, and so nothing really was growing in that area. I mean there was some stands of trees around, but there were a lot of big patches with nothing higher than, let's call it 18 to 24 inches is just these little plants. Right? And so I'm, I'm driving. And what caught my attention while I was driving was I saw this flock of turkeys and they were over here in these little shrubs and these little 18 inch shrubs and they were pecking at them and they look like little Jack hammers over there. Tony: They're just bam, bam. I'm like, what are they pecking at? What is that? And it's a weekend. I don't have anything else to do. So I just stopped my car and I get out, you know, the turkeys go running off and I walk around and I get out there and I'm looking at these little plants and what I didn't know at the time, and I do know now is those are wild blueberry Plains. And so I was standing there and it's like a perfect, almost cold, almost warm day. Like the air is cool, but the sun is warm and I'm standing there and I'm looking at these little plants and I reached down and I pluck this one little wild blueberry off of 'em, you know the branch and I pop into my mouth and it is just like, you know, like sometimes you forget what things are supposed to taste like. Tony: Like you get one of those tomatoes from the grocery store and it's not really a tomato is like, you know, I don't know what those things are, but then you really get a tomato out of your garden. You go, yeah, that's right. Tomatoes, you know? So that's what it was like. It was like that, you know, the sort of sense of wellbeing and nutrition and deliciousness and all that. And so, you know, I, I really, I loved that moment. It was a cool moment. It sort of stuck in my head. This, this stopping the car in the cool air, warm sunshine, eating this wild blueberry. So a few weeks ago I was at an I hop now, I don't often go to IHOPs, but somebody had asked me to meet them there and so I met them there and so I said I owed her some pancakes. And I said, Oh, do you have blueberries? Tony: And the woman said, Oh yes we do. I said, well that's fantastic. I would love to have blueberries in my banking. So you know, she goes back and then you know, we're sitting here talking and pretty soon she brings the order out and here's a stack of pancakes. And on top of it is this purple gelatinous goo of stuffs. We're running down the side of it and there's this sort of like fake whipped cream sort of floating on top of head and it's just sort of dripping off the side. It is the nastiest thing I have ever seen in my life. And it is just, yeah, just yuck. And it really, like I had this picture in my head about blueberry, but this compote stuff that they brought out here, it really wasn't what I was thinking of when I thought blueberry. And I think sometimes it's kind of like that we go through life and we're served a lot of blueberry compote and we think that's what blueberries are until we really, really, really have a blueberry. Tony: Right. And so for me that's the, it was like this invisible thing that, that people all day every day going to IOP and they order pancakes and they asked for blueberries and they get this purple Google thing is on top of their pancakes and they think that's bluegrass. But that's not really blueberries. And so I think there is so much that is like, it's not what we think it is. There's so much unreal that we think is real out in the world. And that's the thing. It was, you know, with this sort of thoughts leading to choices to behaviors that produce feelings that reinforce thoughts, choices, and behaviors. For me it was like I saw the blue bottle, you know? Yeah. That's what it was like for me. That was my lesson learned. It was like, you know, all of a sudden I could see a thing that I hadn't seen before that was there all the time. I just didn't know. Jay: And you knew what it was supposed to taste like. You knew what it was like to what's supposed to be turning that, that knowledge that that's in there into intention, into action, into the feelings, into, into the result that again. Yeah. Wow. Um, yes. Well that was a long story. Just say that's what it was. It was good though. Yeah. So someone came to you and wanted to have the best year of their life, what, what advice would you give them? Yeah. Tony: Well first of all, know what that looks like. Doing the measurement before and the measurement after. Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's really, you know, um, the best year is really are you connecting, are you contributing and are you self care? Are you, uh, participating in self care that, um, and, and so, you know, then how would you measure how am I connecting? How am I contributing and how is my self care? And then, and then make a plan, right? So make a plan for, you know, here, here's on a scale of one to 10, here's how I think I'm doing on self care. In different areas on connecting, on contributing, or if you wanted to go take Michael Hyatts, um, you know, life score or whatever instrument you might use to say, here's where I am right now and then here's why I want to be, and then what steps do I need to take in order to get there? And by the way, in order to take those steps, you may have to think different thoughts in order to make different choices in order to have new behaviors. Right? So, so what do I, what do I have to think differently than I'm thinking right now? Okay. And then how to, so, Jay: well, we're kind of coming up on the end of our time. So, um, first and how do we connect with, how do my listeners connect with you? Um, we talked about a maybe a special offer you might have. Um, yeah, Tony: yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the first thing to know is, my name is Tony Loyd, but my last name is noticed that with one L. O. Y. D. yeah. And so, um, you know, people can find me@tonylloyd.com. Uh, if they want to email me, they can email tony@tonyloyd.com, again, spelled with one L. um, and, and one of the things I want to do to today, Jay, is, and I've never done this before, is I have this book, crazy good advice. Excuse me. And it's a really cool book. Now you can go to Amazon right now and you can buy it for like $14.95, uh, or you can get the Kindle version for nine $9.50. Um, or something like that. I don't know, they'd have to check the price on the website to know exactly what it is. Uh, but if somebody will send me an email and say, I'd like to get a copy of crazy good advice, um, I will for whatever it cost me to ship and handle it. Right. Uh, I will send it to them and um, and just send me an email, we'll work out the details and I'll send you a book as long as you've covered the shipping. Jay: That's a fantastic deal. That's $15 that you're saving right there just, just for the book. So, um, that's, that's a pretty good deal. Again, that my frugal wallets is, that's, that's not a bad thing. Oh, yeah. All right. Well, yeah, make sure you give Tony an email and a workout how you would like to get your, your free book. So, um, any parting thoughts? Anything you'd like to just kinda say in closing? Tony: You know, uh, Jay I, I just wanted to, um, part with this. I mean, it's really about rebuilding, right? So your, your whole mission here is to rebuild and, um, and I think it's something we have to do every day, right? We have to, we have to, it's like bread. It's never quite done. You can't make it and just leave it there and go, there it is. We're done. Right. We have to make it new every day. And so, um, you know, one of the things, and I'll, and I'll kind of close with this as my parting thought. Um, one of the things in, uh, like the 10th chapter of the book, uh, of the crazy good advice book, uh, I talk about that story about how we ended up with, uh, you know, somebody approached me and they liked me and they offered me a radio program and, you know, and, and et cetera, et cetera. Tony: And, and I am like, I'm kinda like Forrest Gump of business, right? Like, you know, I just sort of wander into these really fun things that happen, you know, so I've been very lucky. I'm really blessed to have all these things that have happened in my life. Um, but one of the things that I think from all the advice I have, these 10 different pieces of advice that different people are giving me, if I took it all on, I boil it down to one thing. I would, I would say this, that miracles find you while you're in motion, that it's, it's kind of like we are surrounded by this cloud of miracles, like all these cool little things that are going to happen out there. But if you're sitting on the sofa and you're sitting on your hands and you're sitting still, they can't find you. Tony: And so when you stand up and you get into motion, that's when the miracles occur. That's when the really cool, juicy moments of serendipity, you know, moments of synchronicity, whatever you want to call it, you know, the Wu juice, that's where it really starts happening out there. And, um, and so whatever it is that you've been thinking about, you know, that, that, you know, starting a business or starting a podcast or you know, becoming a speaker or writing a book or, you know, uh, becoming a teacher or becoming a nurse or whatever that thing is, um, you know, start, just start and everything else. Jay: Yeah. That's fantastic I, I had never thought about it that way, but that is absolutely true. Absolutely true. Well, thank you Tony so much for being with me today and, uh, I really appreciate your, your knowledge, your thoughts, your stories. That was, it was a fun time for, uh, for, uh, this hour for rebuilding, so appreciate you being here. Jay: as always. Thank you for listening to rebuilding a hope that you have heard something today that will help you on your path to rebuilding your life. Something resonated. If you felt a call to action, please take that action and rebuild. Let me know what you think of today's show or any of my shows. You can leave comments@rebuildingdotpodbean.com or email@jandjwalter.com I would love to hear from you. Comments, suggestions, and topics that you would like me to cover are always welcome. Remember, a dream written down with a deadline is a goal and a goal achieved. Is a dream come true? Until next time, I am Jay Walter and I am always rebuilding.  

One man’s fame, success, and glory—and the story behind it allThis week’s guest is one my closest friends in the entire world—someone you might not expect but a person who has made one of the biggest impacts on my life. He was my model for navigating sobriety in the public eye and someone whom I immediately felt I knew and felt safe with—his name is Tony Mandarich.In this episode we dive into the story behind the glory and talk about Tony’s upbringing, his climb in athleticism and fame, playing football in college, to finally being drafted to the NFL. He opens up about his addictions and the three pivotal events that brought everything crashing down. Listen to this episode to hear how resilience, perseverance, and being fed up led one man to turn his life around from addiction and commit to a different kind of success and lifestyle—sobriety.Listen to this episode nowMore than just footballTony’s story is much more than just football. He starts by sharing his family background, how they escaped communism and immigrated from Croatia to a small town in Canada. As a young kid, Tony vividly remembers being 11 years old and writing down his dreams of one day playing in the NFL. When Tony turned 16, he realized he could not be scouted in Canada. He shares his brothers sacrifice to move him down to the States, and how that move was the beginning of everything. However, the fame, the success, the glory—Tony’s story is behind it all. For him, football is the platform and tool to carry his greater message. Addiction to “I’m done”He shares the moments and thoughts that led up to the first time he injected steroids, the psychological effects that are ten times more extreme than the physical ones, the three tragic events that spiraled him to his breaking point, and the specific events that led to him getting sober from alcohol and painkillers. Although Tony isn’t proud of some of his past, he has changed his virtues and values to align with who he wants to be. He uses football as a means to share his story, his addiction, his sobriety, and to give others hope. He speaks out about how he had nothing to lose anymore because he had lost everything and himself—how even if you are in a storm of pain, it’s important to trust that there is beauty on the other side. Tony MandarichToday, Tony is a successful and world-renowned photographer and public speaker. After retiring from football, he perfected his own craft as a professional photographer and achieved prominence and recognition for his uniquely compelling images. He lives in Scottsdale, Arizona.The goal is to get back to that innocence of what’s really fucking important 12:00 - tracyIf that's the competition, I need to up my game. 13:30 - tonyI need to catch up and when I catch up, i need to surpass 24:00 - tonyIn my opinion i think marijuana is more of a gateway. 27 - tonyIts crazy the lengths we will go to not feel and to take things to the next level. 30:15 - tracyIn order to rebuild the foundation you have to level it completely. 32:35 - tracyI had a bottle of 90 painkillers and i took 8-10 of them. 35:20 tonyI could watch them slipping out of the bottle into the air, into the water into the toilet and dissolving because they are made of gelatin and i remember the two words I said to myself, I’m done. I said, I’d rather be a boring sober person than a miserable drunk. 37:48 - tonyThere are some areas in my life that are as bad as they can get 41:15 - tonyI always come back to, Does that certain one make my life unimaginable? 43:40 - tonyEnabling an addict is an addiction 44:35 - tracyIt takes an army to keep someone in an addiction. 44:55 - tracyFor me probably one of the most dangerous things is time on my hands 46:25 - tonyThere is a certain core of everyone that will always be that person. 46:50 - tonyTurn devices, the extremes, the compulsions, into virtues, channel them into virtues. 47:10 - tonyI'm not as much a perfectionist and I used to be, because ive realized that my perfectionism or wanting to be perfect as i got older was more of a hindrance than a benefit. 48:15 - tony I don't care if im right anymore, I just want to be the most effective communicator especially to those I care about and that sometimes means eating a huge, huge plate of humble pie. 52:30 - tracyWhen I see someone walk through the middle of fire, it's the one word I really attach to things like that are resilience because it's not easy and just because you’re sober, life happens. 01:03:40The only thing that the 12 step program guarantees you is if you follow these steps we guarantee you sobriety, we don’t guarantee you an income. 1:04:01 As time has gone on, my road has gotten narrower on what I can do or can live with or can’t live with. 01:05:00“The goal is to get back to that innocence of what’s really f*cking important.” 11:58“As good as the effects are physically [of steroids] that people can see, the psychological effects you can multiply by ten.” 27:26 -Tony“It’s crazy the lengths we’ll go to to not feel.” 30:10“For us to really be willing to do whatever it takes to change our lives sometimes it requires such levels of pain that most people would never talk about, let alone ever wish to experience.” 33:10“I could watch [the pills] slipping out of the bottle, into the air, into the water, into the toilet dissolving because they’re made of gelatin, and I remember the two words that I said to myself—“I’m done.” 36:47 -Tony“I looked at my wife and said, ‘the fun is over. I’d rather be a boring sober person than a miserable drunk.’” 37:47 -Tony“Codependency and enabling an addict is an addiction.” 44:33“It’s not just the one who takes the substance—it takes an army to keep somebody in addiction.” 44:51“For me, one of the most dangerous things is time on my hands.” 46:26 -Tony“Turn the vices, the extremes, the compulsions into virtues.” 47:13 -Tony“Until it becomes painful enough, there’s nothing anybody can do to change you.” 69:15

Myths, rumors, and misunderstandings are pervasive in the world of Social Security. On this show, we’ll look to clear up the top 5 misunderstandings about Social Security. Important Links Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381 ----more---- Transcript Of Today's Show: Speaker 1: Hey everybody, welcome into another edition of Plan With The Tax Man. Thanks for checking out our podcast. As always with Tony and myself. Tony, what's going on buddy? How are you? Tony: I'm good. How about you? Speaker 1: Hanging in there? A little bloated. So this is our post Thanksgiving podcast. How are you doing? Did you have a good Turkey day? And. Tony: We had a good Turkey day. It was relaxing as usual, try to eat, you know, these last couple years, trying to eat a little healthier, you know, and while still being able to enjoy it. Speaker 1: But isn't this the one day like you really could not be healthy. Tony: I know, I mean within moderation, you know, and we have been, my wife and I had been working on it hard these last couple of years, but I mean, you know, it's still enjoyable. We still eat and have a little wine and relax with family. Yeah. Speaker 1: Very cool. The average person eats about the average American, I should say, eats about 4,500 calories on Thanksgiving day and that crazy. Tony: I did not know that. Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a little Turkey day trivia for you. Well anyway, we hope that everybody enjoyed their Thanksgiving, and if you're checking on our podcast, we appreciate that. And of course, you know the great thing about podcasts is you can check these out anytime. Maybe you're catching this one, you know, the week after, or maybe you're catching it several weeks after, who knows. But either way, we appreciate it as always. And if you've got any questions, need some help, make sure you go to yourplanningpros.com that's yourplanningpros.com. Speaker 1: All right, so Tony, let's get into it this week. I got to ask you this. This is my little tidbit of, did you see this? I don't know if you want to call this a fun fact, a weird fact or what, but a man pretending to be an investment advisor in Nevada just got a cease and desist letter, I guess a few weeks back or whatever from the SEC. He basically is a baggage handler at the airport and we've been giving an investment advice to like a thousand people, like airline employees and whatnot and started charging them a fee. And of course that's when it becomes a no no. And so obviously that's fraud and yada yada yada. So I don't know, what do you think about something like that? Tony: You know, I didn't see that, but that is a question I would have is how are those people, basically taking his advice but you know how it is around the water cooler, so to speak, employees share information or yeah, maybe he came off as a really knowing a lot. But yeah, I mean I guess the moral of that is obviously you certainly wouldn't want to pay and a fellow employee or anybody a fee unless you really thought that they were, either in the business of giving the advice and things like that. It's basically, you know, with the internet and there's so much info out there, some people are out there and they study and they read a lot. And then they all of a sudden they want to dispense a lot of advice. So you've got to be careful who you're listening to. Speaker 1: Well I mean, I guess, I mean, if he's, you know, what he should have done, I guess if he was, you know, started off as a, you know, a friend, coworker, blah blah, blah, that's all fine and good if you're doing that. But when you start charging a fee is when it becomes, you know, that's when the sec starts paying attention and it's like if he had a good knack for it, go get the education right. Go get the license. Tony: Exactly, go get the education and then you don't have to worry about, breaking any rules, charging the fees. Speaker 1: Right, right. Tony: Yeah. Speaker 1: Then you're on the up and up. Yeah. It's pretty funny. Well, and of course now, Tony, you've been doing this for 23 years. You do have all the proper things. You're a certified financial planner. So yeah, I just thought that was interesting. I guess you can never underestimate people and they'll do some interesting things. All right, well, so on our addition here, let's go ahead and hit our main topic this week. I want to talk about just some simple misunderstandings with social security. I've got a top five here, call them myths, call them rumors, column misunderstandings call them just whatever, urban legend, I don't know, but whatever you want to call them. And I'm just going to have you give us a quick rundown on what you think as to these particular misunderstandings. OK. Tony: Okay. Speaker 1: Social security. It's broke, it's going broke, all that good stuff. What do you think? Is that a misunderstanding? Is that legit? What's your thoughts? Tony: You know, we hear that all the time from clients and the prospective clients cause it's out there. A lot of people talk about it. It's not going broke. You know, it's had some financial setbacks, there's no doubt about it. And I think the latest statistics are, is that it will be out of money right around 2034 now that doesn't mean that everybody just stops getting benefits. Basically what that means, unless Congress changes some things is that I think the latest assessments, 70 you know, if you're getting social security at that time, instead of getting what you normally get, you'd only get about 79-80% of that. Now Congress more than likely we'll probably act to fix that. There's a number of things they can and trying to do. Speaker 1: Yeah probably in 2033 probably like three months before. Tony: Yeah right? It's always the last minute. You know, and so, you know, you're 15-16 years out. It's hard to say is I think it's important to a lot of people. I mean it's important to me. I mean I look out that far and by that time, I mean I won't be quite full retirement age, but you know, start to become more and more important and people start paying attention as they get a little closer to it. But the short answer is it's not broke yet. Speaker 1: Yeah. Tony: I don't think it will go broken. That's just my opinion. I think they will act and fix it somehow. Speaker 1: Yeah. Man that just kind of hit me all of a sudden Tony, that's a little kind of heartbreaking. You're, you know, you're like, yeah, if you're 14-15 years out and I real quick I did the math and I'm like Oh I'm I'm 14 years away. Tony: Right, right. So you, you start wondering, well gosh I really want to even hopefully you're not just dependent upon that. Of course, but it is there and there and if nothing else you can use it as a longevity kind of insurance. Speaker 1: Right? Tony: Yeah, it's important. Speaker 1: Well I think a lot of folks definitely 55 and over probably even 50 and over are probably going to be fine the way it is, but certainly 15 under which I'm just barely under that threshold is going to probably see some changes. Who knows? We'll see. But I think the idea being is that if you are worried about it going broken, you are worried about 75% and if that's going to be enough based on the other things that you have, well then hopefully you have a plan in place and kind of address some of those things. If not, make sure you're talking with your advisor about that. Run those numbers and if you need a little help with that, of course you can always reach out to Tony here on the podcast and let him know @taxdrinc, he'll be happy to do that for you. Speaker 1: Okay, so a couple of more misunderstandings on social security. This one's kind of a twofer. This is kind of like to a number two, part A and part B if you will. And it's the saying or the myth that social security starting as soon as you possibly can. Tony. Well, darn it, that's just the best option. Tony: And then the next one probably waiting as long as I want to wait, you know? And basically, it's a personal decision at the end of the day and people ask us this all the time too. And most of the time we get asked, well I as soon as I turned 62 that's the first age you can take it. I want to go ahead and take it. We try to talk to him a little bit about, well you know, maybe that might not be best. Now in my opinion, that's generally best. Especially if you have maybe no other savings, you know, your life expectancy, you know, you don't have a lot of longevity in your family or maybe you've been hopefully not but diagnosed with something that you know, you really think you're not going to live that long. That might be a good idea. Speaker 1: Sure. Yeah. Tony: But most of the time, if you've got other means, delaying it at least until full retirement age, which is somewhere between, for most of us now, 65 and 67 is generally best because if you live, and we could do the math for you and actually do the calculation, but generally if you live till 75 76 by delaying it until your full retirement, you're going to be well ahead of the game. Tony: And then anything after that is gravy because they do increase the benefit a little bit. So, you know, I say talk to somebody, talk to your advisor and pick out what's best for you because it's not just one or the other. Speaker 1: Yeah. Well now you mentioned that, you know, changes a little bit. There's, I guess there's a Cola increase supposedly for 2020 right? Like 1.6%, which is not very much. And then of course also what you're talking about maybe is the break even point. Right? So running the numbers and seeing, you know, again, no one can tell exactly how long they're going to live, but it kind of gives you a rough idea as to say, well you have to make it to this age if you started at this point to make X number of dollars and so on and so forth. And that kind of helps factor that into, correct. Tony: It does. Yeah. And at least people know that, okay, I know that and based on what I have and maybe I could use some of my savings to supplement until you know, later age to get that higher benefit and make that decision. Speaker 1: So for example, if folks, if you're not tracking, so what we're saying is kind of if you turn it on at 62 and by age, I don't know, whatever it is, Tony, you tell me where it's at, but let's just say 80 you make X number of dollars. Or if you waited until 70 full retirement age, that would be X number of dollars at 80 you can kind of weigh out, or I guess what the break even point would be. So starting on 60 to probably take you longer to get to where it would be. But again, you have to live that long. Tony: You have to live that long. And that's the big gamble. So speak. But you know, the way I look at it is, again, a little bit on a personal level is yes, we want the income and hopefully, I won't be dependent on it, I don't think I will be. Yeah. By any means. But it's nice to have, you know as that, I call it the longevity insurance, just in case you have to be one of those people that live into their late eighties, nineties and people are living longer and at least you can't outlive it and you that you want that higher income. Speaker 1: Okay. So again, I know another misunderstanding is turning it on as soon as you can or waiting as long as you can is the best option. And it may be either one could be, but there also could be something to be said for a happy medium and also having those conversations to run those projections. And then of course, you know at the end of the day you are still kind of making a bit of a guess cause you're gambling on your life expectancy. So okay, so a couple more quick ones here and then we'll hop up out of here for our podcast. As I know people, if they are checking us out here shortly after Thanksgiving, they're probably bloated like I am. The Social Security Administration, those folks can help you choose the best strategies, claiming strategies for yourself. That's definitely a myth, isn't it? Tony: I think that's a myth and nothing against the people that work at social security. I think that they've done a lot over the years. They've gotten their website a lot better. They've got a lot more tools out there. However, depending on who you're talking to, they're obviously they don't know your financial situation. And they're not going to get into that with you. Speaker 1: That's the first and foremost. Tony: I think that's the biggest drawback. So it's nothing against them and they don't know what they're talking about. They know their system and they can give you some facts, but you still got to take that and get some advice or calculate some of the things on your own as to what's best for you and your family and your situation. I would use them for fact gathering and then, talk to your advisor. Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, I haven't actually been myself, but my understanding is it's a lot like the DMV. Tony: A lot of times it is. My dad goes down and he comes back complaining all the time. You know, he's down there for four hours. And then he doesn't get an answer and then it's, you know, he's got to go down again and yeah. Ideas and, but you know, in their defense they're serving a lot of people. It's not easy. And they're doing it with limited funds. They at times, I've got a few friends that work higher up, they're not on the front lines, but you know, they just kind of tell me some of the stories. But overall, they do a pretty good job of getting benefits pay obviously. But yeah, for info and things. Speaker 1: And just like you said, just from a time standpoint, I mean you think about how it is when you're at the DMV, they're typically not interested in answering a lot of extra questions. They kind of want to get to the, the situation at hand and get on through. And of course at the main point that you had, the areas obviously, hopefully the one that rings true with most people is that they don't know you and they don't know your situation. So it's not best to really ask them that. And of course they can't legally, tell you what to do anyway. All right, so final one here on our social security misunderstandings is this one's pretty common Tony, and that's that you don't have to pay taxes on those social security benefits. Tony: Yeah, and that's the biggie. You know, from the tax angle for us, everybody's surprised. You do have to pay taxes if your income is over a certain level. So it, it's one of those, you know, it depends. But for most of us, I mean if, if social security is just your only income, then no, you don't have to pay any taxes on that. However, most of us have some sort of other income, whether it be from wages, other retirement plans, pensions, things like that. And there's a calculation that the tax code makes us do. And then if you make over a certain amount, it's not very much either. You do have to pay taxes on those benefits and everybody is always during tax season, kind of crying. Tony: Yeah. You know, they've got a point, you know, I paid taxes on this money already. Now I've got to pay it again. I don't understand. You don't understand. It doesn't seem right, but unfortunately that's the law. So yes, you have to factor that in. Otherwise, you could end up short at tax time. So we do try to talk to people about maybe withholding taxes on their social security, like they would their wages so they just don't end up owing and have a surprise on April 15th. Speaker 1: That would be good. That would not be good. But that would be good done to avoid that surprise. All right, well I think you know what, that's going to do it for our podcast this week. So pretty short and simple. And to the point if you've got some misunderstandings about social security and maybe one of those ones we discussed or maybe some other ones and you need a little help, you want to have a conversation, make sure that you always check with a qualified professional like Tony before you take any action, you can reach out to him. If you're not currently a client, you can reach out and let them know that you have some concerns or misunderstandings and they'll give you a hand as best they can at 844-707-7381, that's (844) 707-7381 if you have not yet done so, please go to yourplanningpros.com that is yourplanningpros.com and click on the podcast section of the page there. Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe to us on Google or Apple or Spotify or various other ones that are on there. Whatever platform of choice you like to use for podcasting, share it with friends or family whose somebody who might benefit from it. We give you a couple of little link options and ways to do that. So I mean you can tweet it or Facebook or whatever the case might be and we certainly appreciate it and hopefully you've got something useful out of this and you continue to enjoy our podcast. And if so, we'll reach out to Tony and let him know. We would certainly appreciate it. Speaker 1: And Tony, my friend, thank you so much for your time this week. We going to try to hit one more here before the holiday. The big holiday is upon us. Yeah, but I hope you have a good weekend. I'll talk to you soon. Tony: All right, we'll talk to you later. Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time here on playing with the tax man with Tony Mauro, Des Moines professional alternative @taxdoctorinc, we'll see you next time.

Tony Park's 17 African thrillers are international best-sellers wrapping high octane action set against a background of safari park politics and wild life protection. Hi there I'm your host Jenny Wheeler . Tony gives the true story of the undiscovered  Australian who's a key protagonist in his latest book, Ghosts of the Past, and talks about living his dream life, split time between Australia and South Africa.  Six things you'll learn from this Joys of Binge Reading episode: The importance of 'living your dream'Splitting time betrween Australia and South AfricaThe unknown hero he'd like to see recognised Tony's work with Veterans For WildlifeThe looming crisis in animal and plant protectionTips for safari seekers Where to find Tony Park: Website: www.tonypark.net Facebook:  @TonyParkAuthor  Twitter: @TonyParkAuthor Instagram: @TonyParkAuthor What follows is a "near as" transcript of our conversation, not word for word but pretty close to it, with links to important mentions. Jenny: But now, here's Tony. Hello there, Tony, and welcome to the show. It's great to have you with us. Tony: It's great to be here. And thank you for having me. Jenny: You've had a  long career as a journalist, a very full career. But was there a Once Upon a Time moment when you thought you really did want to write fiction rather than just the non-fiction that you were doing? Tony Park - International thriller author Tony: Yes, Jenny, I think it goes way back, even before I started working, before I went to school. I think I knew from the time I was a very small boy, when my Mom got me reading at a very early age.  I fully believe it's the best gift a parent or grandparent, too, can give to a little kid.It's a love of books and a love of reading. I knew from probably the time I started reading that what I wanted to do in life was  write a book. I mean, my Mom would 'park' me in the Municipal Library, probably sit there for after- school-care unattended, and I'd walk around looking at all these books in the little town where I grew up.  I thought 'someone must be writing all these books and I would like to be one of those people.' So I knew from the time I was a very small boy, if ever anyone asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up, I would say I wanted to write a book. And particularly, I wanted to write fiction. Love of reading nurtured Jenny: And was that in rural Australia somewhere? Tony: I was in the western suburbs of Australia, in Campbelltown. Interestingly, I was actually born in New Zealand. I'm from an Aussie mum and  a Welsh dad but  I came to Australia - back to my mum's country - when I was about three or four years old. And so I grew up in the western suburbs of Sydney. It was a pretty basic existence. We weren't particularly well off. The town was on the outskirts of Sydney, and it had a very small library. It's one of those things where when you're a little kid, it seems big. I went back out there and they've got a very big new library now. But I went to the building where it originally was, and it's probably not much bigger than the average lounge room. Yes, that was where I remember spending a lot of time. We were always getting books out of the library. Always. And I was reading -  reading Biggles books when I was a little boy. Biggles and the fighter pilot dream I'm not sure if any of your listeners are old enough to remember Biggles, terribly politically incorrect books about a fighter pilot in the First World War written for young boys. I thought when I was growing up, I'd like to write books, and I also wanted to be a fighter pilot. But when I went to school, I couldn't do mathematics. I couldn't do science.  So a job in the Air Force was out of reach because you needed those subjects to qualify. So I pinned my hopes on being a writer. Tony Park - African adventure - The Delta Jenny:  You've made your name with African adventures

A special bonus episode where Siri tells her story to Tony Robbins on his podcast about her journey to World Champion Triathlete and coach. You can listen to the original recording here https://www.tonyrobbins.com/podcasts/letting-go-fear/Where do you go from failure? The most successful people in the world have recorded massive failures, and, for many of them, failure was the greatest influence in their ascent to greatness. Why?It comes down to perspective; failure is only the end if you choose to see it that way.We all have the power to choose. We can't control events, but we can choose what to focus on, we can choose what those events mean, and we can choose what to do now. These three decisions control our lives. So it is not the conditions of our lives, but rather the decisions that determine our destiny.In this episode of the Tony Robbins Podcast, hosts Tony Robbins and Mary Buckheit explore how to shift your focus to being true to yourself, bouncing back from defeat, and embracing who you are.They speak to their friend and hero, Siri Lindley. A former 2-time ITU World Champion, Siri was recently inducted to the USA Triathlon Hall of Fame. She is a Brown University graduate and has coached field hockey and lacrosse at Ivy League schools.In her coaching career, Siri has helped a number of Olympic and Ironman athletes win championships, including Mirinda Carfrae. While we were fascinated by her incredible success, we invited her to the podcast to learn more about her unique life experiences.In this episode, Siri opens up about fear, suffering, recruiting, training, triathlons, coaching and love. She explains to Tony and Mary how these life challenges ultimately became her greatest gifts.Siri and Tony help us to understand that to be truly great at anything, you must always start with yourself.Show Notes[00:30] Tony Robbins on hunger, drive, and emotional strength[06:00] Introduction to Mary B[06:30] An introduction to Siri Lindley[11:50] The allure of a triathlon[12:10] Team sports vs. individual competition[12:50] Starting out (“I couldn't swim.”)[13:58] Siri's first triathlon (“I was a disaster”)[17:00] Failure either destroys you or drives you[18:20] Where does the hunger comes from?[19:30] Desperate to feel good; wanting to like herself[20:30] Keeping the fear at bay[22:30] From “crappy” to World No. 1[24:30] Lesson: “You as a human being are far more important than you as an athlete”[25:45] Coach Brett Sutton gets into the mind of the athlete[26:30] Olympic trials 2000[28:30] No excuses: “I choked.”[30:25] “Impossible” training in Switzerland[31:20] Tony on Wantrepreneur vs. Entrepreneur[32:15] Training in Converse and travel clothes…in the Alps[34:30] “Jane supposedly sucks”…and she kicked my butt[36:20] Mom: “If you can't hack it, come home.”[36:50] Everyday he was scaring me to death. It was brilliant.[37:50] Tony: “A belief is a poor substitute for experience … your coach gave you an experience.”[38:42] Champion mentality, self-sabotage, bad patterns, doubt, commitment[39:51] TR on the psychology of extraordinary athletes[40:05] Recruitment: “I saw the angel in the marble and I carved until I set it free.”[40:55] Why failure can actually set you up for success[41:45] Tony Robbins on facing your fears and the analogy of sports[42:55] Why recruit 42nd place?[43:38] Be better than you were yesterday[44:24] Appreciation for the everyday[46:30] A manager's right to be picky[46:55] Tony Robbins: I hate the term self-esteem; the only way to get inner pride is to earn it[47:30] Coach John Wooden's definition of victory[49:15] We alone are the creators of our life[49:35] Mary B: Accountability, junk miles, purpose, and the human factor[50:43] Tony Robbins on humility and the human factor[51:37] Siri's ultimate fulfillment, and reading Tony's books[52:14] Life after competition[52:05] I could have retired after I won my first world championship…but I didn't want to be a fluke[53:32] An athlete puts their dream into a coach's hands[55:15] As an athlete, I hadn't accepted who I was fully…I came out after I retired from the sport[55:10] Siri falls in love[56:30] “Love messes with anything you've learned before.”[59:00] Siri Lindley and Rebekah Keat[59:55] Taking care of myself makes me a better coach[1:01:15] What makes Siri's life story the classic fairytale[1:02:40] Siri's gratitude[1:03:55] Siri's advice: Be brave. Be relentless. Look how far you've come.[1:05:51] The gap between where you are and where you want to be[1:06:57] The Science of Achievement vs. The Art of Fulfillment[1:08:48] The female college athletes curse…now what?[1:09:33] USA Lacrosse cut/extreme disappointment[1:10:53] There's nothing worse than starting something and not finishing[1:12:00] We all find our path[1:12:36] How a sponsorship changed her life's direction[1:16:06] Basing a life's identity on others' expectations[1:17:45] The world champion had no sponsors[1:18:28] The lasting effect of an image you're not[1:19:12] The ultimate success: being who you really are[1:19:50] Mary B on coming out and limiting beliefs[1:21:00] Being true to who you are allows you to give all of yourself to others[1:21:50] The Ellen Degeneres effect[1:24:05] Unleash the power within[1:25:10] Tony: “It's hard to love yourself when you're not being yourself”[1:25:30] Freeing yourself of limitations can rejuvenate and revitalize you[1:28:45] Tony's goodbye

Episode 100 of the Stinking Pause podcast with Scott, Charlie, Liam, Paul and Tony It is also our fifth birthday episode and to celebrate we reminisce over the highs and lows  of the previous 99 episodes as well as reviewing the number one movie on IMDB's top 250, The Shawshank Redemption from 1994. Andy Dufresne (Tim Robbins) is sentenced to two consecutive life terms in prison for the murders of his wife and her lover and is sentenced to a tough prison. However, only Andy knows he didn't commit the crimes. While there, he forms a friendship with Red (Morgan Freeman), experiences brutality of prison life, adapts, helps the warden, etc., all in 19 years.   This and previous episodes can be found on iTunes and Stitcher Radio as well as: acast.com/stinkingpause stinkingpause.libsyn.com podcast.party/podcasts/the-stinking-pause-podcast  Follow us on Twitter @StinkingPause  email: thestinkingpause@gmail.com #Podpals #PodernFamily  Thanks for listening Scott, Charlie, Liam, Paul and Tony http://stinkingpause.libsyn.com/

Our very own community manager at RunnersConnect, Tony Pallotta, recently joined the RunnersConnect team after owning and operating a specialty running store in Boston for twelve years. Leaving one running mecca for another, Tony now lives in Denver, CO where he continues working as a personal coach as well as training for his next big ultramarathon. He has raced everything from the 400 on the track all the way up to Ironman’s and has accumulated enough miles to circle the globe twice, including a double Grand Canyon crossing. Tony has dedicated so much of his life to helping other runners meet their potential, and not only is he our community manager at RunnersConnect but he’s also a longtime member. Listen in as Tony shares his insight, knowledge, and experience to break down some of the most pervasive misconceptions about injuries, shoes, and more. Questions Tony is asked: 2:22 Tony’s background 3:38 What was it like transitioning from a RunnersConnect member to a RunnersConnect staff member? 4:28 What are you doing for RunnersConnect? 8:16 How can people send you there questions or interview requests? 9:50 Has the Chump been stumped? 13:04 What was your experience with runners looking for specific shoes based on marketing or word of mouth? 19:41 How can people self-assess their foot type? 27:23 What was it like owning a running store in Boston? 28:57 How often would a runner come into your store looking for a shoe that would fix their issues on it's own? 34:51 When are orthotics helpful to runners? 37:19 What are your thoughts on minimalist vs. maximalist shoes? 41:17 What’s ahead for you? Quotes by Tony: “It’s that sense of community that makes running an incredibly healthy sport, more than just by the definition of health.” “I think when people think about their own ‘story,’, that it has to be some amazing, powerful story, but I tell people the details are different, among everyone’s stories, but the underlying theme is not.” “Fixing injuries really comes down to the runner being able to answer questions.” “You can have a best friend and wear Asics and they wear Nike, and your friendship will not be jeopardized. I promise. It’ll actually be stronger because you’ll both be able to run together.” “Running does not define me as a person but makes my life whole. It keeps me focused, healthy and inspired to constantly challenge myself and explore the unknown.” “Specialty run shops are still the heart and the soul of the running community in so many ways. If you’re struggling, you HAVE to go to your specialty run shop; they have a vested interest in fitting you properly.” “If I tell people I’m going to run 50 miles… I don’t even tell them because they’re like, ‘What? I can’t even DRIVE 50 miles.’” “When it comes to running advice: question everything.” Take a Listen on Your Next Run Want more awesome interviews and advice? Subscribe to our iTunes channel   Mentioned in this podcast: RunnersConnect on Facebook Send Tony an e-mail Runner's World - What Foot Type Am I? (Self Test) Interview with Dr. Irene Davis USATF New England   We really hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of Run to the Top. The best way you can show your support of the show is to share this podcast with your family and friends and share it on your Facebook, Twitter, or any other social media channel you use. If more people who know about the podcast and download the episodes, it means I can reach out to and get through to the top running influencers, to bring them on and share their advice, which hopefully makes the show even more enjoyable for you! -- Thank you to our sponsors for supporting Run to the Top Send an email to info@pacifichealthlabs.com with the subject line "Run to the Top" and ask for your FREE Accel Gel samples. Don't forget to include your address!

The RunRunLive 4.0 Podcast Episode 4-339 – The World Walk – Tony Mangan  (Audio: link) [audio:http://www.RunRunLive.com/PodcastEpisodes/epi4339.mp3] Link MarathonBQ – How to Qualify for the Boston Marathon in 14 Weeks - Hello and welcome to episode 4-339 of the RunRunLive Podcast.  It’s been an interesting week but we managed to rise above and pull off an interesting and compelling show for you.  This week I’ve got an interview with Tony Mangan who, last time I checked facebook,.was in Russia some 2000 odd kilometers into his walk around the world.  Tony is/was an accomplished ultra runner and then decided to run around the world.  He did.  It took him 4 years.  But when he got home he was still restless so he has set off again, this time at a slower pace and on an alternate route.  This is basically his life now.  Perambulation of the globe. I was asked last week what I’d do if I didn’t have to work.  My answer was probably just start running.  Run across the US or something.  There’s something about it that appeals to me.  Not the effort or the accomplishment or the challenge.  What appeals to me is the monastic clarity of it. How’s my running going?  Well I actually took 7 days off.  What? Shocked? Yeah, I said it had been an interesting week.  It started 2 weeks ago.  On that Thursday I got a cold sore and a slight fever.  I thought ‘Ok, it’s some of those seasonal allergy symptoms’ and really didn’t think more about it because, as you know, I don’t get sick.  Big waste of time getting sick.  No reason for it. It didn’t get any worse and Saturday I spent a fabulous long day working on my yard and got so much done.  I was on a roll.  Sunday I woke up to get my long run in and noticed that my heart rate was pretty high and I didn’t feel so hot.  I went out and knocked out a couple low-energy hours anyhow but knew something was going on.  I felt progressively worse all day Sunday and when the early alarm went off to jump on a plane Monday morning I couldn’t do it.  I was too sick.  Which kills me.  I usually go to work if I can still fog a mirror.  I ended up sitting in on 3 days of 10 hour-long meetings by phone.  It was the right decision. Monday night I had the chills and fever sweats.  I was awake coughing all night most nights. I slept on the couch all week sitting up to let the rest of my family get some sleep.    By the end of the week it had moved into my sinus and I was in some discomfort.  My wife and daughter told me to go see the doctor.  I hesitated because, hey it’s just a cold, all they’re going to do is tell me to go home, sleep and take fluids.  Why waste my time and theirs? I relented Saturday morning – more than a week into it by then.  The nice nurse practitioner Duncan took my vitals and was giggly at how good shape I’m in for an old guy. But, he said, “Given your baseline this is totally out of whack.  You either have acute sinusitis or pneumonia and we need to get you on antibiotics.” Oh, ok…So I’m 4 days into the drugs and it’s clearing up.  Meanwhile I’m supposed to be speaking at a conference in New Orleans on Monday.  I was speaking as a favor to an old friend of mine Dan who lives in Chicago.  We chewed some dirt together back in the 90’s career-wise and always got along.  I ghost wrote some of his first book.  We were peers from the same cadre, he was about my age. Last time I talked to Dan he was pretty sick.  He had some problems with Diabetes and had to get a couple toes removed.  I asked him, “Jeez Buddy, how does something like that happen?” and he joked back to me “Too much rich food.  Bad lifestyle decisions.” Much to my shock last week, I got a note from the conference Friday morning that Dan had passed away.  This week, while I was speaking at his conference in New Orleans they were having services for him in Chicago. So summary: Weird couple weeks. I’m going to give you something a bit different today format-wise.  We’ll drop right into the chat with Tony and then I’ll lay my Boston Marathon story on the backside of that. I’ll hit you with some closing comments on the back end.  Fair warning, last time I checked my Boston story was over 5,000 words.  I recorded a draft of it last week, but I’ll re-record because my voice was just painful to listen to. Remember there is now a membership option for the RunRunLive podcast with special members only content.  My goal is to get one piece of unique audio every week.  This past week members were treated to my uncomfortably contorted sick voice rendition of the business podcasts that I listen to and why. So, yes, for the price of one Czechoslovakian hockey puck you can sign up to be a member of the RunRunLive podcast and get further access to the audio bestiary.  … When you have a weird week like the one I had it can cause you to take pause.  If you’ve got unfinished business to attend to in your life, for heaven’s sake get to it.  Don’t put it off.  Don’t put off the things you need to do and the things you need to say.  The small decisions you make on your healthy lifestyle add up over time.  Don’t put those off either. I’ll share a less dramatic story from a couple weeks ago after Boston. I’m in my office the week after the marathon.  Coach has me not running much but has me doing yoga.  I work out of a remote office and many times I’m the only one in there.  I have a real, old style office with walls and a solid door that locks.  I’m an executive! I decided to do the yoga in my office.  No one is there and it saves me from having to walk over to the gym and I can use the WiFi in the office to play Bonnie’s videos on my tablet.  It’s all good.  So I change into my workout stuff which just happens to be short shorts and a singlet.  I’m sitting on the floor in my approximation of the lotus position and there’s a knock on the door.  It’s some unfortunate young guy who has come to service our water cooler.  There I am like some strange half-naked yogi on the floor of my office. I explained to him what was going on and he got a kick out of it and was interested in all my hardware and running paraphernalia.  All in good fun.  Oh, yeah, I shaved my beard last week too.  On with the show.   Access To Exclusive Members Only audio Member only race reports, essays and other bits just for you! Exclusive Access to Individual Audio Segments from all Shows Intro’s, Outro’s, Section One running tips, Section Two life hacks and Featured Interviews – all available as stand-alone MP3’s you can download and listen to at any time. (I’ve got episodes 4329 – 4335 up – in pieces - already) We will consider other benefits as they are requested by you, because when you’re a member it’s all about you! Voices of reason – the conversation Tony Mangan – the World Walk On Saturday February 27th, 2016 I began a walk around the world! I will be walking the world with a cancer awareness message;         Life is precious, early checking saves lives. Starting from Run Logic's running store in Dublin’s Temple Bar, we will meet at two pm February 27th, 2016 and leave at three pm. Please follow my new blog for the walk ( Click Here )  or my Facebookpage! After I first got the idea to run around the world I didn’t see how I could do it without a support vehicle. As running is more problematic than walking I decided instead of running the world that I would walk it! In 1998, I was living in Lake City, Colorado.  I returned to Ireland  I decided that one day I would find a way to live my ultimate dream, to run around the world ( As many of you know I achieved that in Oct 2014) So, this world walk is my other long cherished dream  :-) Last Monday I was welcomed by The Lord Mayor of Dublin, this is becoming a habit! Thank you Lord Mayor Criona Ni Dhalaigh for my latest Magic Letter! I will be walking the world with a cancer awareness message; life is precious, early checking saves lives. In 1977 I read Dervla Murphys book Full Tilt: Ireland to India on a bicycle. I put the book down and read it again immediately. I was gobsmacked. She cycled across Europe in winter continued across the Turkish mountains,across Afghanistan,Pakistan and into India on terrible roads and with a 3 speed bicycle. So I started planning my own trip to India. I bought a 5 speed Raleigh Corsa bicycle and told everyone in work what my plans were..I got in so deep there was no way out! Then someone asked me what I was going to do when I got to India! Cycle back Tony? It occured to me in a flash..No of course not...I'm going to just keep going. In August '78 I set out to cycle around the world. I couldn't even fix a puncture. My heavily laden bicycle got about 8 in the 160km to Rosslare Harbor. I had to cycle late into the night to catch the ferry to France.I ditched some of my baggage and cycled myself fit. I returned 15 months later severely bitten by the travel bug. For the next 15 years I continued taking extended vacations often on my bicycle in (at that time) exotic locations such as Iceland, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Liechtenstein, Andorra and Egypt, as well as hitch-hiking around the middle-east and taking a year out in 1983 to cycle and hitch in South America. Other than kicking a football around Dublin's streets I don't think I would consider myself from a sporting background. It just kinda grew on me.I used to run to football training and then run home later to improve my stamina.The penny dropped when I got a very bad ankle injury and missed running more than football.That was almost 25 years ago and I haven't kicked a competitive ball since. I was going out with a girl whose boss was on my now running club's committee.She suggested I join MSB A.C. I ran the marathon within 5 weeks of first serious lacing of my running shoes.I I did my one and only long run of 35km just 7 days before. In the marathon I ran 3.09 and was hooked. Gradually I got my time down to 2.38. In 1994 I obtained a green card and emigrated to Colorado,USA. There I discovered the wonders of mountain ultra running.I more or less drifted away from the cycling at this stage..Gradually I progressed to running 24 hour races...I was obsessed by 24's and in an attempt to try to make them 'shorter in my mind' I entered a few 48 hour races only to find I was more competitive with these! In 2002 I returned to Ireland after getting a bad foot injury. Around this time world record attempts were very popular on treadmills. I had a couple of shots and in 2003 managed to get both the 24 and 48 hour world records at the Dublin marathon expo. I was working in construction as a snagger and used to run in and out of work.Everyone used to sneer and say I musn't be working hard if I still had the energy to run home after a long hard day on my feet. I used to say that it was my running training that made me fitter to work hard and when I stepped in the door I was well warmed up! I always found construction work to be an excellent way to maintain exceptional fitness,especially when I was injured and couldn't train,I rarely lost any. I don't think the dust helped me much though. I used to run everywhere.I had a small blue satchel and if I needed a magazine in the city or needed to post a letter I usually just ran. I made a few appearances for Ireland for 100km and 24 hours and seemed to be able to run a very consistently reliable  In March 2007 I booked a Ryanair flight to Brno,Czech Rep. for a 48 hour indoor race.I really had no expectations as I was just going for the experience. I was wearing my race shoes on the plane and was traveling with just a small amount of carry on baggage.I didn't even bother bringing much race food..During that race I ate the candy I had bought for my niece and nephews..It seemed to hit the spot...I ran like a man possessed and often wonder if I received some form of divine intervention as I broke the  with 426.178km running for 47 of the hours and walked just 750 meters. This was also the first occasion that a runner ran 2 consecutive days of 200km plus.. Three years later a committee of ultra running researchers and ultra running historians awarded me with a  for 48 hour running. My  were 223 and 203km...I was staggered and shocked by this race of my life. Due to this performance I received an invitation to run the prestigious invite only Surgeres 48 hour race in France. Before accepting I thought long and hard about competing as clearly 8 weeks would not be enough time to recover from a world record performance in Brno. I went against the advice I was given and in Surgeres I surprised myself again by running 401km to . Those 8 weeks were the greatest weeks of my running life. I have never reached those lofty heights since,save for a 405km to regain my  in Longford Ireland. Getting that record back was so important to me..I was injured having not run much in the previous two months. it was pure determination running through the pain and fatigue barriers that won me that record back.You see the man who took it off me skirted the rules and was holding the treadmill bars as he was running...Yes amazingly its not against the rules to run on a treadmill while holding the bars! Just try it in your gym...If you hold hard enough you can even almost fly above the belt..is this running?? No athlete worth his salt would 'run' in this chicken fashion!He actually has records for coach surfing watching mind-boggling daytime tv watching Judge Judy and Seinfeld for weeks on end and thinks running on a treadmill should allow him to hang onto the rails like he was holding onto a zimmer frame for dear life! So because of cock-ups I do not recognize the authority of a so called record compiler. I endeavor to put my efforts under the the even greater scrutiny of my fellow athletes and a newly formed committee made up of experienced athletes because they understand athletes and athletics. I ran a couple of 3 day races in Arizona, one and finishing second in the . I am now officially retired from competitive athletics and will only compete for fun in the future..I have had a great time.Thanks for the memories,wonderful help and encouragement... I now look forward to a new career as a journey runner. Section two Boston 2016 - Outro Well my friends that’s it you have done the painful death shuffle to the end of Episode 4-339 of the RunRunLive podcast.  Hope you enjoyed that.  Feel free to send me feedback.  All this stuff is posted on my website and you can leave comments.  If you dig what we’re doing here, feel free to repost the show post or share with a friend. Well.  I’ve decided to pivot.  I was going to go up and double down at the Vermont City race.  I signed up for it.  But, I think I’ve lost too much fitness.  The sick kept me from training and it will probably take a couple weeks to totally get over it.  I’m basically out of runway for a May 30 race.  I’ll probably just skip it. I got a new project though.  (Like I don’t have a new project every week…) but seriously, the people from Spartan races contacted me.  I’m angling to interview Joe the owner.  I didn’t know they were based out of Boston, which is cool.  In general I’m a bit of a purist when it comes to racing but these guys actually keep score unlike a lot of the other obstacle events.  If I do it I’m going to take it seriously and compete.  They gave me a freebie.  I figure it will take some time to beat my skinny-ass runner upper body into something that can compete at flipping tires and climbing walls, but it will be good for me.  It’s just what I need.  There are two races at the end of July.  One south of Montreal that is only a 3-4 hour drive for me and one in Edinburg which is an interesting thought.  Then maybe spin up a serious race in the fall.  I’m out to Phoenix next week and I’m dragging my newly minted college grad with me and we’re going to sneak off and do the canyon at the end of the week.  Closing comments It’s strange my life.  While I was writing that Boston report I looked back through the inventory of life events over the past 5 years and it’s really amazing.  I always feel like I’m falling behind and not doing enough but when you lay it all end to end it’s something.  I’m happy I’ve been able to make choices and decisions that have brought me adventure and challenge and health.  I think about the roads not taken and I wonder how much different my life, the quality of my life and the quality of life for those in my life might be on a different path.  I’m not one to preach, but like my coach says, “Die with great stories, not regrets.” Don’t put off ‘til tomorrow.  Don’t sacrifice your now for some unfortunate future and thanks to antibiotics and clean living I’ll see you out there. MarathonBQ – How to Qualify for the Boston Marathon in 14 Weeks -