Podcasts about kirkus

Original air date: August 17, 2025 A special episode featuring ⁠Amanda Yates Garcia⁠, also known as The Oracle of Los Angeles. Amanda is a writer, socially engaged artist, public witch, and doctoral student in the department of World Arts Cultures and Dance at UCLA. Her first book, ⁠Initiated⁠, received a starred review from Kirkus and Publisher's Weekly and has been translated into six languages. Amanda hosts the Between the Worlds podcast, which looks at the Western Mystery traditions through a mythopoetic lens and has been downloaded over 2.5 million times, with over 1,900 five-star reviews. Amanda is the founder of ⁠Mystery Cult⁠, a 20k strong online and in-person community on Substack dedicated to eco-somatic ritual practice and cultivating radical enchantment. *** ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Otherppl with Brad Listi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, etc. Subscribe to ⁠Brad's email newsletter⁠. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support the show on Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Merch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠proud affiliate partner of Bookshop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Happy New Year, listeners! It's the Fully Booked Year in Review, featuring editor-in-chief Tom Beer and Kirkus contributing writer Michael Schaub. On this jolly special episode, we take a deep dive into the weird book news of 2025 and reveal the year's most popular episode.THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS:Fighting Bullies by William T. Reid, IVHarlo by Brian PetersenBailing Out by Leonard RuhlThe Nameless Dead by Leta Serafim See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Joining us to celebrate Hanukkah is writer and former New Yorker, Jean Meltzer - also known as - “The Queen of Jewish Romance.”, for her new book THE EIGHT HEARTBREAKS OF HANUKKAH. Jean is also announcing a groundbreaking first-ever 3-day event called Jewish Joy Con, celebrating the best in Jewish pop-culture, storytelling, and creativity, scheduled for next March in Fort Lauderdale, FL. Prior to becoming an author, JEAN MELTZER studied dramatic writing at NYU Tisch and built a successful career in television, earning multiple accolades including a National Daytime Emmy Award. She is the recipient of several writing honors, a Booklist Top Ten Romances for 2023, a starred review in Kirkus, a starred review in Booklist, and LibraryReads.

In this episode of Healthy Mind, Healthy Life, Avik sits down with author Lee Ann Walling to unpack The Salt and Light Express, a late life debut novel about grief, guilt, faith, and reinvention. Through the story of Chris, a woman in her sixties driving an RV across the United States to scatter her partner's ashes, Lee Ann explores mindfulness, spiritual deconstruction, religious judgment, and the courage to love again. This is a grounded conversation for listeners navigating loss, questioning Christianity, rebuilding belonging, or considering indie publishing for their own story. If you are wondering whether it is too late to reinvent your life, this episode gives you a clear, honest reality check plus practical hope. About The Guest: Lee Ann Walling is a writer, former journalist, political and government strategist, land use planner, consultant, and now an indie author. At 69, she released her debut novel The Salt and Light Express, already earning praise from BookLife, Kirkus and Forward Reviews for its honest look at grief, spirituality, and late life transformation. Her own journey includes leaving, questioning, and reimagining Christianity across Methodist, Baptist, Episcopal and progressive faith spaces while continuously reinventing her career and identity. Key Takeaways  : Grief is not something to outrun. Chris's RV journey shows how staying in motion can create space to sit with pain, guilt and love instead of spiritually bypassing it. Mindfulness is not a buzzword. Chris's guilt after the accident comes from distraction at the wheel, which becomes a wake up call about presence, attention and how easily life changes in seconds. Faith can evolve without becoming fake. Lee Ann's path through Methodist, Baptist, Episcopal and back to a questioning Methodist community mirrors Chris's shift to a simpler, more honest form of Christianity. Honest dialogue breaks stereotypes. Chris's ongoing conversations with a Southern Baptist pastor challenge both of them to rethink judgment, prayer, salvation and what following Jesus actually looks like in everyday life. Reinvention has no age limit. Lee Ann wrote her debut novel in an MFA program in her late sixties, skipped a broken traditional publishing system, and built an indie path that keeps full creative control.   How To Connect With The Guest  : You can connect with Lee Ann Walling and learn more about The Salt and Light Express here.Website: https://www.LeeAnnWalling.com She personally monitors messages coming through her site and replies directly. How To Connect With Healthy Mind, Healthy Life And Be A Guest   Want to be a guest on Healthy Mind, Healthy Life? DM on PM. Send me a message on PodMatch DM Me Here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/avik Disclaimer   This video is for educational and informational purposes only. The views expressed are the personal opinions of the guest and do not reflect the views of the host or Healthy Mind By Avik™️. We do not intend to harm, defame, or discredit any person, organization, brand, product, country, or profession mentioned. All third party media used remain the property of their respective owners and are used under fair use for informational purposes. By watching, you acknowledge and accept this disclaimer. About Healthy Mind By Avik™️   Healthy Mind By Avik™️ is a global platform redefining mental health as a necessity, not a luxury. Born during the pandemic, it has become a sanctuary for healing, growth and mindful living. Hosted by Avik Chakraborty, storyteller, survivor and wellness advocate, this channel shares powerful podcasts and grounded conversations on. • Mental Health and Emotional Well being• Mindfulness and Spiritual Growth• Holistic Healing and Conscious Living• Trauma Recovery and Self Empowerment With over 4,400 plus episodes and 168.4K plus global listeners, we unite voices, break stigma and work toward a world where every story matters. Subscribe and be part of this healing journey. Contact   Brand. Healthy Mind By Avik™Email. join@healthymindbyavik.com | podcast@healthymindbyavik.comWebsite. www.healthymindbyavik.comBased in. India and USA Open to collaborations, guest appearances, coaching and strategic partnerships. Connect if you want to create a real impact around mental health and conscious living. 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Stories have a way of helping us recognize ourselves, and that's exactly what happened in my conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond. Nana shares what it was like to grow up in Queens, then suddenly move to a boarding school in Ghana, and how that experience shaped her identity in ways she's still uncovering today. As Nana describes her path from writer to author, her years of persistence, and the curiosity that led to books like Powder Necklace and Blue, I felt a deep connection to her commitment to keep creating even when the process feels uncertain. We also explored trust, partnership, and the lessons my guide dogs have taught me—all ideas that tie into the heart of Nana's storytelling. This conversation is an invitation to see your own life with more clarity, courage, and compassion. Highlights: 00:00:10 – Step into a conversation that explores how stories shape courage and connection. 00:01:41 – See how early environments influence identity and spark deeper questions about belonging. 00:02:55 – Learn how a major cultural shift can expand perspective and redefine personal truth. 00:23:05 – Discover what creative persistence looks like when the path is long and uncertain. 00:27:45 – Understand what distinguishes writing from fully embracing authorship. 00:33:22 – Explore how powerful storytelling draws people into a moment rather than just describing it. 00:46:45 – Follow how curiosity about history can unlock unexpected creative direction. 00:59:31 – Gain insight into why treating a publisher as a partner strengthens both the work and the audience reach. About the Guest: Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond is the author of Powder Necklace: A Novel, the award-winning children's picture book Blue: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky, the collection Relations: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices, and My Parents' Marriage: A Novel.  Tapped for her passion about Africa's rich fashion traditions and techniques, Brew-Hammond was commissioned by the curators of Brooklyn Museum's "Africa Fashion" exhibit to pen and perform an original poem for the museum's companion short film of the same name. In the clip, she wore a look from the made-in-Ghana lifestyle line she co-founded with her mother and sister, Exit 14. The brand was featured on Vogue.com. Every month, Brew-Hammond co-leads the Redeemed Writers Group whose mission is to write light into the darkness. Learn more about it here.Learn more at nanabrewhammond.com. Ways to connect with Nana**:** Instagram, Facebook and Threads: @nanaekuawriter Twitter: @nanaekua  www.NanaBrewHammond.com  ORDER my new novel   MY PARENTS' MARRIAGE Read 2023 NCTE Award Winner & NAACP Image Award Nominee   BLUE: A History of the Color as Deep as the Sea and as Wide as the Sky   Read RELATIONS: An Anthology of African and Diaspora Voices , stories, essays & poems by new and established Black writers   Shop Exit 14 , all weather, uniquely designed, 100% cotton apparel sustainably made in Ghana About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog. Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards. https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/ accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/ Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below! Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset . Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts. Transcription Notes: Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us. Michael Hingson  01:20 And a pleasant, Good day to you all, wherever you happen to be, I would like to welcome you to another episode of unstoppable mindset. Today, we get to have a conversation with Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond And Nana has a lot of interesting things to talk about. She's written books, she's done a variety of different things, and rather than me giving it all away, it'll be more fun to let her tell the stories and get a chance for us to listen to her. She is in Oakland, California, so she's at the other end of the state for me, and we were just comparing the weather. It's a lot colder where she is than where I live down here in Victorville, where today it's 104 degrees outside. And Nana, you said it was like, what, somewhere around 70. Yeah, it's 68 There you go. See lovely weather. Well, Nana, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset. We're really glad you're here, and I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:23 I feel the same way. Thank you for having me on your amazing show. And it's so wonderful to be in conversation with you. Michael Hingson  02:30 Well, I'm glad we get a chance to spend some time together and we can, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about and make it relevant and interesting. So we'll do that. Why don't we start with what I love to do at the beginning of these is to talk about the early Nana growing up and all that. So take us back as close to the beginning as your memory allows. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  02:52 Oh gosh, as my memory allows. Um, I so I was born in Plattsburgh, New York, which is upstate near Montreal, Canada. Michael Hingson  03:06 Been there. Oh, cool in the winter. I even crossed the lake in an icebreaker. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  03:12 But yeah, oh my gosh, wow. Okay, yeah. Bring back memories. Well, I was only there for till I was, like two years old. So, but I do, I have gone up there in the winter and it is cold. Yes, it is cold, yeah. So I was born there, but I grew up in New York City and had that really was sort of my life. I lived in New York, grew up in Queens, New York, and then at 12 years old, my parents decided to send me to Ghana to go to school. And that was sort of like a big, the biggest change of my life, like I know that there was a before Ghana and an after Ghana, Nana and so, yeah, wow. Michael Hingson  04:02 So, so when was that? What year was that that you went to Ghana? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:06 That was 1990 August of 1990 actually. Michael Hingson  04:11 So what did you think about going to Ghana? I mean, clearly that was a major change. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  04:15 Yeah, you know, I, you know, my parents are from Ghana originally. So when, you know, they would always talk about it. We, you know, back then phones, long distance phone calls to Ghana. I, you know, that was, that was the extent of my sort of understanding of Ghana, the food that we ate at home, etc. So going to Ghana was just sort of mind blowing to me, to sort of be crossing, you know, getting on a plane and all of that, and then being in the country that my parents had left to come to the United States, was just sort of like, oh, wow, connecting with family members. It was just, it was a lot. To process, because life was very, very, very, very different. So yeah, it was just sort of a wild eye opening experience about just the world and myself and my family that ultimately inspired me to write a book about it, because it was just, I just, it was a lot to process. Michael Hingson  05:25 Why did they want you to go to to Ghana to study? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  05:30 Yeah, so in the 90s, in New York City or and in the late 80s, there was the crack epidemic was happening, and we, you know, I mean, I remember, we lived in a house in Queens, and when we would, you know, part of our chores was to sweep in front of the house, you know, rake the leaves, that kind of thing in the fall. And we would, all the time there would be crack files, you know, like as we're sweeping up, and I didn't get there where we were young. My sister was, you know, a teenager. I was 12, and my, you know, my younger brother had just been born. He was just like a, like, a little under a year old. And I think my parents just didn't feel that it was a safe place for us as kids to grow up. And so, yeah, they wanted to kind of give us an opportunity to get out of, you know, that environment for a while. Michael Hingson  06:33 What did you think of it? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  06:35 I mean, you know, as a kid, you never want to leave what to you. So it was, I would say it was, it was, it was interesting. Because initially I loved it. I was like, I actually campaigned, you know, I was like, I really, you know, would like to stay in Ghana, but I didn't want to stay for, you know, the three years, which is what I what happened? I wanted to stay for maybe, like a year, kind of try it, you know, go to school for a year. I found it this really cool adventure, go to boarding school and on all of that. But my parents made the decision that we should just sort of ride it out and finish like I had to finish high school. And, yeah, so, so great for me. Michael Hingson  07:25 So you were there for three years, yes. So by you were 12, so by 15, you had finished high Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  07:32 school, yeah, because the system there is different. It's it was at the time the British system. So it was like a form system where I saw I entered in form three, because it was, it wasn't quite the equivalent in the sense that I probably should have started in form two or form one, but I was also an advanced student, and and they, the way the system there works is you have to take a common entrance exam from primary school to get into secondary school. So it's very difficult to get into school midstream there. So we had to go through all of these hoops. And, you know, there was an opening in form three, and that was higher than my, you know, than where I should have been, but I was advanced, so I was able to get into that school that way. You did okay. I assume I did. I mean, I struggled, which was interesting, because I was a very, you know, good, strong student in the States, but I struggled mightily when I first got there, and throughout, it was never easy, but I was able to manage. Michael Hingson  08:49 Now, did your sister also go to Ghana? She Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:52 did, and she was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  08:55 How old was she when you were 12, she was Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  08:59 17, so she Okay, yeah, almost about to go to college. She was really excited about, like, that portion of life. And then it was like, okay, she's in Ghana. She was hopping mad. Michael Hingson  09:13 Well, how long did she stay? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:16 Well, so she stayed for two years. Because what Ghana has is sort of like, at the time it was something called sixth form, which is, again, the British system. So it's sort of like a college prep in between the equivalent of that. So she basically did that in Ghana. Michael Hingson  09:38 Okay, well, and your little brother didn't go to Ghana, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  09:44 not yet, not not yet. You Michael Hingson  09:47 mean they didn't send him over at one year? No, okay, well, that's probably a good idea. Well, so looking back on it, what do you think about having spent three years in. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  10:00 Ghana, looking back on it, I think it was actually really, really good for me. I mean, it was that doesn't take away from the fact that it was very difficult. It was very, very challenging, not only academically. It was I was bullied really hard at this boarding school that I went to. The girls just kind of made my life hell. But what was amazing about it for me was that I had, I had exposure to Ghanaian culture in a way that I would never have had in the States. As I mentioned to you, Ghana was sort of that country over there when I lived in America. And you know, it existed as you know, family members coming to visit, long distance phone calls, the food that we ate, that you know, the accents that we had, things that made us different, and at the time, that was not cool. You know, as a kid, you just want to fit in and you don't want to be different. And going to Ghana was my opportunity to learn that, wow, I didn't have to be embarrassed or ashamed of that difference. There was so much to be proud of. You know, my family was, you know, a sprawling family, you know, my my grandmother owned a business, my grandfather owned a business, you know, it was, it was really, it was eye opening, just to sort of be in another environment. People knew how to, you know, pronounce my name, and I didn't have to, you know, just explain things. And that was really affirming for a 12 year old and a 13 year old when you're going through that, you know. So it was really good for me. And in Ghana is where I came to know Christ. I became a Christian, and it was something that spiritually, I was not really, I don't know, I just didn't really think about spiritual. I did on some level. But going to Ghana, it everything just felt so palpable. It was really like we're praying for this. And it happened, you know what I mean, like, yeah. It felt very Yeah. It was just a time in my life when life really felt very the mysteries of life really felt like they were open to me, Michael Hingson  12:37 interesting and so you clearly gained a lot of insight and knowledge and experience over there that you were able to bring back with you when you came Yes, yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  12:55 When I returned to the States, I was just, I think of myself, I guess, as a weirdo. Like, when I came back, I just felt so weird because I couldn't really, fully, you know, connect with my friends, because I had missed out on three years of culture, you know. And you You don't realize how much culture means, like, until, like, you know, you don't have those references anymore. I didn't know the songs that were popular. I didn't, you know, know about, I forget, there was some sort of genes that were really popular while I was gone. I didn't know what they were. I didn't have a pair of them. So it was just sort of this, this interesting time. And I was also young, because I had finished high school, and I was 15, yeah, my friends were, you know, sophomores, yeah, you know, and I was beginning the process of looking into college. So it was just a really isolating time for me and I, but also, you know, interesting and I, again, I say it was, it was ultimately in the in the wash of it. I think it was good because it enabled me to sort of, I guess, mature in a way that enabled me to start college earlier. And, you know, sort of see the world in a much different way. Michael Hingson  14:26 So when you went to college, what did you want to do? Or had you had you decided to start laying plans for a major and what you wanted to do post college, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  14:36 I did not know what I wanted to do. I kind of, I mean, I kind of thought I wanted to be a doctor. I thought I wanted to be a doctor. Like, all my life, growing up, I was like, I'm going to be a doctor. And I was a science student in Ghana, but I struggled mightily. But still, I went. I entered college with us. You know, the plans? To become a bio psychology major. And you know, I took two, three classes, well more than that, I did, like, a year of classes. And I was just like, This is not for me, not for me at all. But yeah, yeah. So it was, it was that was a little rough. Michael Hingson  15:21 Things happen. So what did? What did you go off and do? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  15:25 Then I ended up majoring in political science and Africana Studies, and it was, I remember taking a political science class my freshman year, and I, my my professor was amazing, but it was, it was interesting to me. I think looking back now, being able to think about the world in a way that was sort of linking history and politics and culture together. And I think that was interesting to me, because I had just come from Ghana and had been exposed to, like, sort of this completely different culture, completely different political system, and, you know, kind of having that, I that thinking, or that wonderment of like, wow, you can Life can be so different somewhere else, but it's still life, and it's still happening, but also having that connection as an American to America and what's happening there. And so holding both of those things in my hands when I got to college, I think I was, I just what I was really sort of intrigued by the idea of studying politics and studying culture and society, Michael Hingson  16:48 and that's what you did. Yes, I did. So you got a degree in political science. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  16:54 Yes, a double degree political science and Africana Studies. Michael Hingson  16:57 Africana Studies, okay, and again, that that's probably pretty interesting, because the the Ghana influence had to help with the Africana Studies, and the desire to to do that, and you certainly came with a good amount of knowledge that had to help in getting that as a part of your major. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  17:16 Well, interestingly, my focus was on African American Studies, because I really growing up as an immigrant, like with immigrant parents, their understanding or their their thought process wasn't necessarily, I don't know they weren't. They didn't really raise us to think about race or being black, because their consciousness wasn't about that. It was they were immigrants. You know what? I mean, they weren't thinking about that. So I was actually quite curious, because I did grow up in America and I was black, but I didn't understand, you know, the history of America in that way. And I remember, actually, when I was in was it the third or maybe it was the second or third grade, or maybe it was fifth grade. I did a project on the Civil War, and I remember being so interested in it, because I had, I just didn't, you know, it wasn't. I was so fascinated by American history because I really wasn't. I didn't, I didn't understand it in the way that maybe somebody who wasn't the child of immigrants, you know, might, you know, connect with it. So I was just Yeah, so I was really fascinated by African American history, so I ended up double majoring in it and concentrating on African American politics, which was really fascinating to me. Michael Hingson  18:55 Yeah, and there certainly has been a fair amount of that over the years, hasn't there? Yes, there has, but you can, you can cope with it and and again. But did your time in Ghana, kind of influence any of what you did in terms of African American Studies? Did it help you at all? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  19:15 Um, I, I don't know, because I don't because, because I think what, what I what, what Ghana helped me with was, I remember, I'll say this. I remember one time in Ghana, in class, we were reading a book by an author who had we were reading a play, actually by a Ghanaian writer who was writing about a Ghanian man who married an African American woman and brought her to his home. And there was a lot of clash between them, because, you know, they were both black, but they had different sort of backgrounds. Yeah, and I remember the teacher asking, because the. The the wife that he brought home, the African American woman, mentioned certain things about America, and no one in the classroom could answer any questions about America, and I was the only one who could. And I was, you know, very, very sort of shy in that in that school and in that context. But I remember that day feeling so emboldened, like I was, like, I can actually contribute to this conversation. And so maybe, you know, in on some level, when I got back to the states, maybe there was some interest in linking those two things together. But it wasn't as as is in life. It wasn't obvious to me. Then it was sort of just kind of me following my interest and curiosity. And I ended up, I didn't set out to be an Africana Studies double major, but I ended up taking so many classes that I had the credits. And, you know, I was like, Okay, I guess I'm I have two degrees now, or two, two concentrations, Michael Hingson  21:02 yeah, did you go and do any advanced work beyond getting bachelor's degrees? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  21:08 No, I did not. When I graduated, I initially thought I might get interested, get in, go to law school. But this was me again, following my muse. I realized that my real interest was in writing papers when I was in college. You know, give me a 15 page paper, 20 page paper, I was ecstatic. I loved writing papers. And I think that's one of the reasons, too, why I loved political science and Africana Studies, because we were assigned tons of papers, and it enabled me to sort of, you know, writing these papers enabled me to kind of think through questions that I had, or process what I was reading or thinking about or feeling. And so when I graduated from college, you know, I got, you know, a job, and was working, trying to figure out, Okay, do I want to go to law school? But at the time that I graduated, that was also during the time of, like, the.com boom, and there were a lot of online magazines that were looking for writers, and so I started, kind of, you know, submitting, and I got some some things published. And as that was happening, I was like, I think this is what I want to focus on. Michael Hingson  22:30 So when did you really know that you were a writer? Then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  22:34 I mean, I don't I think that when I got back, when I started working, so I, ultimately, I got a job in advertising, and I was working, you know, as an assistant in the on the account side of things, but there was this whole creative department that, you know, got to, you know, come up with all of the, you know, the the taglines and write commercials and write jingles and all that kind of stuff. And I was, like, so fascinated by that, and that's what I thought, okay, I could if you know, I need a job, I need money, and I want to write, so maybe this is what I need to be doing. And so I ultimately did get a job as a copywriter and and I still, you know, do that work today, but I think I always knew that I needed to write, and I wanted to actually write about my experience in Ghana. So I remember, you know, I started kind of very fledgling. Would began to write into that, and I ultimately started writing that the book that became my first book, powder necklace, on the subway to and from work. Every morning I would wake up very early, write what I could get ready for work, right on the bus, right on the subway, you know, get to work after work. You know, repeat. And it took me many years, but that's what I did. And I wrote my first book, Michael Hingson  24:14 and that was published in 2010 right? Yes, it was, did you self publish? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  24:18 Or I well, I did not self publish. I was published by Simon and Schuster. Simon and Schuster's Atria Books, Washington Square press. And part of my process was I started just kind of, you know, the Internet. The Internet was new. It was something that was available to me. So I started just kind of Googling, how do you get published? And they said you needed a literary agent. So I started looking online for literary agents. And because I lived in New York City at the time, I would literally write my my query letters and like, hand deliver them different agencies. 90s, and one woman, after four years of looking, said, Okay, this sounds interesting. I'd love to meet with you. And I didn't believe. I was like, wow, I've been rejected for four years, and somebody actually wants this, and she was able to sell the book. And I was shocked. I was like, Simon and sister, okay? And at the time they bought it, the, you know, the America, the US, was going through the whole financial, you know, crisis, the recession, in 2008 so they held my book for a year, and then we began the process in 2009 and then they, you know, we were on track to publish it in 2010 Michael Hingson  25:46 Wow. Well, tell me about that book. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  25:51 Powder necklace is a novel. It's a fictionalized account of my experience going to high school in Ghana. I when I went to school in Ghana. I went to a girls boarding school in the mountains of Ghana central region, and that school was going through a major water crisis. We did not, I mean, we the short story is that, I guess, because of we were on the mountain, the water pressure was very low, and so it was really difficult to get the water up that mountain. And they didn't have like enough, you know, tanks around the school and what have you. So we had one artificial well, and then we had, like, an underground well, and that was it. And the underground well wasn't always, you know, full of water to service the whole school. It was really difficult. So, you know, we had to bring in our own water, some. And then it became, if you had money, you could bring water. But if you didn't have money, you didn't and it was a very desperate time for for young girls without being not being able to take a shower on demand. And it was, it was wild. Michael Hingson  27:15 Where does the title powder necklace come from? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  27:19 So the title, I named it powder necklace, because, as I mentioned, taking a shower became this like symbol of the haves and the have nots. And, you know, all of this having water, really. And if so, what, what the girls, what we would do is, you know, after you've taken a bath, people would put tons of powder on their necks. And it was sometimes it was okay we didn't take a bath, so we're going to put powder on our necks to scented powder to cover the odor. But it was also a way, like if you had bathed, to sort of, you know, show off that you'd bathed. So for me, it was as I was reflecting on the on this as I was writing this story and reflecting on that whole experience, I thought, wow, it was sort of our way of holding our heads up, you know, in the difficult situation, and kind of making the best of it. So that's why I called it powder necklace, Michael Hingson  28:17 okay? And that was for children. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:20 Well, it was for young adults, young adults, but Michael Hingson  28:25 it was more writing than pictures. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:27 Yeah, it was a young adult novel. I actually, I mean, this was my first book. I really didn't know what I was doing. I just, I wrote the book and I didn't know that it was a young adult novel, until people were like, Yeah, you wrote a young adult novel. I'm like, okay, Michael Hingson  28:47 works for me. Well, what does, what does being a writer mean to you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  28:54 Um, I think being a writer means to me being able to articulate. A time, a place, a mood, a moment, being able to articulate it, one for myself, but also to create a record that helps people who don't necessarily have that gift to be able to sort of put words to the experience of living at a time place, having a certain feeling about something. Michael Hingson  29:34 Do you think there's a difference between being considered a writer and being an author, are they the same, or are they really different? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  29:45 I do think that there is a difference, and not in a sort of, you know, highfalutin way. I think the difference is the fact that when you I think, like, when you asked me initially, like, when do you think that you you became. Became a writer. My My instinct is to say that I think I was always a writer, because I think if you write, you're a writer. And whether you're published or not, you're a writer. If you have that inclination, that gift, and you sort of invest in that gift, and invest and develop it. I think you're a writer, but I think with an author, I think then that's to me. I think of it as the business of being a writer, or the business of being, yeah, you are now sort of in business with your publisher. Publisher has invested a certain amount in you, and it then becomes a more sort of public facing thing. The work is not just for you anymore. The work is now being disseminated to a group and hopefully to as many people as possible, and you as the writer now have to figure out, like, how do I get to my audience? How do I maximize or expand the reach of this thing that I wrote? How do I connect with people around the story and build build a readership. And how do I ultimately, you know, the my desire and goal would be to live off of this. How do I make turn this into something that I can, I can do, you know, full time and live off of Michael Hingson  31:38 so you turn from a writer to being an author. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  31:42 I'm, yes, I am an author, and I'm and I'm hoping to get to the to the, you know, the point where I can do it 100% full time, and it be, you know, 100% lucrative in that way. Michael Hingson  31:56 So what are you doing now? In addition to doing books, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:01 also freelance as a copywriter, so I'm still copywriting, Michael Hingson  32:05 okay, I was wondering what you what you did? So you're doing, still marketing and jingles and all those things, yeah, well, I Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:13 I'm my focus. I do do that, but my focus is mainly in the digital space. So I write lots of websites and web ads and social media copy, and, you know, things of that nature, campaign work. Michael Hingson  32:33 Well, that's, is there anything that you've written or copy written that we would all know, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  32:42 yeah, I mean, I did. I've done a lot. I guess the maybe the most recent thing that I've done that people might be aware of, or some people might be aware of, is the Brooklyn Museum in New York, did a an exhibition called Africa fashion. And I, they created a short film to promote it, and I, they commissioned me to write an original piece for it. And so I wrote that piece and and performed it in the film. So, you know, people who are into that kind of thing a museum, that that museum might be aware of it. But I've also written for, I did a lot of work for L'Oreal Paris, USA, and I've just done a lot of beauty work. So many of the beauty brands you might be aware, you know, you might know, I've done some work for them, cool. Michael Hingson  33:45 Well, that, you know, you do have to do things to earn an income to to be able to afford to write until you can do it full time. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  33:53 Yeah, yeah. And I actually really love copywriting. I think it's an it's been an incredible teacher in the sense of how to how to crystallize an idea in very short, you know, in just a few words, how to convey emotion in just a few words. And also that storytelling is not just the words, it's how you deliver the story that's all part of it. So I think it's been an incredible teacher in that way. Michael Hingson  34:28 I know for me as a speaker, it is how you tell the story. And I've learned over 23 and a half years of speaking how to take people inside the World Trade Center and actually have them travel with me and do all the things that, and experience all the things that that I went through, and then come out of the other side and I and I say that because so many people after I speak somewhere, well. Come up and say, we were with you in the building. We were with you with everything that you did. And I appreciate that there is a real significant art to storytelling, and part of it is also, and I'm sure that this is true for you as a writer and an author, that part of it has to be that you have to actually connect with the audience. You've got to understand the audience. You've got to connect with them, and you have to bring them along, because they're not expecting to go with you. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  35:33 Absolutely, absolutely. And I will say that I started one of your books just the beginning of it, and I was just running with Roselle, and I was so taken, so absorbed by the first few pages of it. You really do immerse us. And I think that that's the best kind of of writing. You know, when you're able to kind of present material that people may or may not be familiar with, and make it riveting and really bring us into it, and then have us invest being, feel invested well. Michael Hingson  36:16 And I think the last book that we did last year live like a guide dog. I worked really hard to make sure that we were drawing people into the experiences, because every chapter is actually taking lessons from one of my guide dogs and also from Fantasia, which who is my wife's service dog, but each chapter relates to one of those dogs, and I wanted them to be environments where people again were drawn in and appreciate the dogs for what they are and what they do, not just some dumb Animal that comes along. Yeah. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  37:00 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, so interesting. I think there's, there's so much, I guess. I don't want to use the word, I guess what I want to say, there's a lot of mystery in in the sort of human animal interaction, and people just aren't aware of how powerful it is, and I can, I'm saying that I speak for myself, because growing up, actually, I was really, really scared of dogs and animals, all animals, and I so there's, there's two, there's kind of two stories I'll share. But one is when we were, when we were growing up, my parents, you know, were from Ghana. They wanted to eat goat meat. And at the time, you couldn't just go to a supermarket goat meat. So we used to go to a farm out in New Jersey that had goats, and we would have to go and have the goat, you know, slaughtered and, you know, cut up and all that kind of stuff for the meat. And I remember that whenever the hand would go into, you know, the pen where the goats were, the goats would just were. They would be so stressed out, they would like, you know, part like the ocean walked in, and if he picked, when he picked one out. There would be other people, other goats in the pen that would start screaming in agony, along with the goat that had been picked out. And I was just like, Oh my gosh. That must be his family members, like, or his loved ones. And it was so I remember that was so eye opening to me, like, wow. So I ended up years, years later, I wrote a short story, and I actually did some research on goats and how brilliant they are, and I was just like, wow, oh my goodness, I remember that so well. But I have a cat right now, and my kitty cat is just such a such a joy, like just sort of to build that relationship with, with my with my pet, is just such a beautiful thing, and how she just kind of, because I grew up really scared of pets, and I sort of inherited her when I got when I got married, you know, she's been very patient with me, like, because at first I was so skittish around her, and I could see her, kind of like rolling her eyes, like, I mean, you no harm. You can pick me up. It's all good. And she's just been so wonderfully patient with me. We've built that bond over time. Michael Hingson  39:31 Well, yeah, I have, of course, my my eighth guy, dog, Alamo, and stitch the cat. Stitch is 15 and a half and a real cutie pie. We rescued her. Actually, there were people who were living next to us, and he was moving out. His wife had died, and he just told the people who were moving all of his stuff out, take the cat to the pound. I don't want anything to do with it. And we, we said, Absolutely not. We'll find it a home. And then I asked, What the. Cat's name was, and they told me the cat's name was stitch. And I knew that this cat wasn't going to go anywhere because my wife had been, well, my wife had been a quilter since 1994 and a quilter is never going to give away a cat named stitch. Yes. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:14 Oh, I'm so glad stitch found a home with you. Michael Hingson  40:18 Oh, yeah. Well, we found a stitch. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  40:20 Oh, that's right, that's right. Michael Hingson  40:23 And, and, and so she's, she's got lots of personality. And so it really works out pretty well. No, no complaints. And I've always said, Whenever I get a guide dog, because my wife has always had cats, when I get a new guide dog, I've always said, and will continue to say, it has to be a dog that's been raised around cats and has no problems with cats. I have seen a couple of Guide Dogs, actually, that hated cats, and one almost killed a cat, and that's I will never tolerate that. Yeah, they have to get along. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely now, when we brought Alamo home, stitch had a few concerns about this dog in her house. She got over it when she decided that Alamo wasn't going to do anything to bother her and they they talk all the time now and rub noses and all that sort of stuff. Oh, that's so cool, yeah, but, but it's, it is great, and they, they bring so much joy and so many lessons to us that I think it was really important to learn. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  41:34 Yeah, yeah. You're reminding me the first dog, because my grandmother actually loves animals, and when I went to Ghana, she got a dog, and, you know, as a kid, so we got a puppy. And I remember the puppy was initially supposed to be a guard dog, but we I, I would feed the I would hand feed the dog sausages and just spoil the dog so much. Could not be a guard dog, so I loved that dog. Joshua, yeah, Joshua, Michael Hingson  42:07 well, but you and Joshua got along really well. On we got along great. One of the things that people sometimes ask me is if my dog trained to protect and the answer is no, they're not trained, and then they've said, Well, what would happen if somebody were to decide to attack you with the dog around? And my response will always be and rightly so, I wouldn't want to be the person to try that and find out what will happen, because much more than guarding, there's love. And I've always believed that dogs love unconditionally. I think trusting is a different story. They are open to trust, but, but you have to earn their trust. They'll love you, but will they trust you? That depends on you. And so it's it's really pretty cool, but I would not want to be the person to ever decide to try to attack us, because I, I am sure that Alamo would not tolerate that at all. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  43:10 Oh, not at all. How do, how do you or how have you built trust with your your pets? Michael Hingson  43:17 Well, a lot of it has to do with they want us to be the pack leaders. They want us to be their team leader. And so I have to set the ground rules. So, for example, no jumping on the furniture and all that. But again, it's also how you convey that. So if my dog is going to jump up on something and I don't want that, I'll say, leave it. And as soon as the dog obeys, I'll give the dog a food reward, a kibble, to let the dog know, and I'll also use a clicker, but I'll let the dog know I approve of what you did, not punishing them for, you know, something else. Yeah, so it's not punishment, it's positive rewards. I think that's extremely important, but also it is in the stressful times being very focused and calm. So if we're walking somewhere and we get lost, that is not the dog's fault, because it's my job to know where to go and how to get where I'm going, and it's the dog's job to make sure that we walk safely to get there, so if we get lost, that's on me. And what I can't do, or shouldn't do, is panic and become very fearful and upset, because the dog will sense that I have to stop and figure it out and continue to praise the dog, saying what a good job you're doing, and so on. And those kinds of things are the things that will, over time, build that trust. I think it takes a good year to truly build a trusting relationship that is second. To none. And that's the kind of teaming relationship that you want, whether it's a guide dog or any dog. And even as far as that goes, although they're different cats, yeah, but it's, it's all about building that relationship and conveying the command and conveying that you want to trust and be trusted? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:24 Yeah, yeah. I think you're you. What you said that really resonated with me is that they want to know. They want you to be the pack leader and the and part of that is, you know, you lay down the ground rules, but also you're responsible for them and their well being. And, yeah, that really, that really resonated with me. Michael Hingson  45:48 Well, so you wrote your first book, and then when did you write your second book? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  45:55 My second book came out in 2022, so it was a 12 year spread in my first book and my second book, Why so long? Oh my gosh, my book, I was the book I was working on, like to sort of follow, was just rejected for, for all that whole time, and I was, you know, in more and more distraught, and, you know, in despair about it. I didn't know what to do about it. And I actually, you know, I was actually reading the Bible, and I came across the fact that there was a curtain, a blue curtain, in King Solomon's temple. And I was like, why does it matter that the curtain was blue? And so I just started googling casually, and I discovered that there was a snail in antiquity that was harvested for the blue drops that it it secreted, or it secreted drops that were ultimately oxidized to turn blue. And I was like, what I've never heard about this? I started doing some more research, and I realized, like, oh my gosh, the color blue has such a fascinating history. Kids need to know about this. And so I wrote it really as a poem initially, but then I thought, you know, I really want to see if I can get this published. And I was able to get it published, and that became my children's book blue, which was such a bomb to my soul, because after sort of a decade of getting, you know, rejected, and, you know, close to a decade of getting rejected, this, this sort of beautiful, like, sort of knowledge, you know, I came across, But I was able to create a book, and it's just been a wonderful experience with the children's Michael Hingson  47:45 book, wow, so the full title of blue is, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  47:51 it's blue a history of the color as deep as the sea and as wide as the sky. Wow. Michael Hingson  47:57 That should be enough to get the book sold. But as you point out, there's, there's a lot of history, yes, and that, that's pretty cool. So it was, it was released in 2022 and they finally, the publishers finally bought into that, huh? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  48:16 Well, yeah, I mean, that wasn't the novel that I've been working on. So I was still working. I ultimately, I did sell the novel, but that was its own journey, and I ended up writing another book that became the book is called my parents marriage, and it is not about my actual parents marriage. It's a novel about a young woman for adult readers. It's my first book for adult readers, and it is about a young woman whose parents are in a polygamous union, and how they're they have a really turbulent polygamous union, and how that relationship kind of kind of cast a shadow on this woman's, you know, choices in relationships and marriage for herself. Michael Hingson  49:10 So you you publish that my parents marriage. You also did a collection relations. Tell me about relationships. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  49:18 I did. Yeah, so relations is an anthology of its stories, essays and poems that are by writers from all across the continent of Africa. So I have Egyptian poets and Libyan you know essayists and you know, Nigerian storytellers, just it was, it was a really amazing project to work on. I started working on it during August of 2020, which was sort of like I've heard it described as peak pandemic, right? You know, we were several months. Into lockdown, and you know, it became this wonderful way for me to kind of connect while I was sort of holed up in my apartment in New York. Michael Hingson  50:15 Okay, now, were you married by then? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  50:18 No, I was not. I had just started dating my now husband, and I was like, Am I ever gonna see this man again? Because he lived in California, so at that time, the planes were grounded. I remember we were, like, on the first, very first flights that were able to start, you know, that started and be on planes, there'd be like, four people on the entire plane. Michael Hingson  50:42 Yeah, hopefully you both weren't on planes going against each other at the same time. No, you did communicate a little more than that. Oh, good. Well, so you published. So when was well? What was relations published? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:02 Relations came out in 2023 okay, February of 2023, and my parents marriage came out in July of 2024. Just came out in July of 2025, Michael Hingson  51:14 which one the paperback of the paperback? Oh, okay. Have any of them been converted to audio Yes, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  51:23 all, but my first book, are audio books. So blue is an audio book, beautifully read, and then their relations, the stories and essays and poems are read by two speaking artists, and then my parents, marriage is is also wonderfully performed. So, yeah, they're all an audience. Michael Hingson  51:50 That's cool, yeah. So when you're writing, what, what's kind of the difference, or, how do you differentiate between writing for young people and writing for adults. There must be differences. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  52:07 Yeah, I think, I think with for young people, and the practical thing that I try to do is make sure that the vocabulary is are is familiar to them, mostly familiar. I like to put in a stretch word now and then to kind of get them to, like, get to the dictionary and find out what. But if I'm right, when I when I wrote blue, for example, knowing that, you know, the the age group is, the age spread is four to 888, year olds are in third grade. Four year olds are in pre K, so that's that's pretty big spread. So my sweet spot is first and second grade vocabulary words. Okay, it has to be something that they've been exposed to. So thinking of it in that way, the other thing too is breaking down concepts that are, you know, as adults, you know, we just assume that you know, or you can go look it up, but just kind of thinking it through. So if I'm talking about, instead of saying that, you know, there was a snail in antiquity who, you know, heart, you know, dyers were harvesting blue dye from these snails through after a process of oxidation. I wouldn't use any of those words. I would say, snail produced some drops that when exposed to the air and the sun turned blue. And so just sort of really, kind of being mindful of that, and also thinking very visually, writing, very visually. How can I create pictures with words that would be familiar to a child, that can sort of ignite their imagination? Michael Hingson  53:53 Yeah, I think it's extremely important to to deal with the visual aspects of it, but using words and really drawing again, drawing people in because if you just say, well, you can see this in this picture. That doesn't mean a lot, and you're also, I would think, helping to teach or create the concept that some people might some children might want to go off and write because they like how you say and what you say Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  54:24 absolutely and when I when I talk to kids, I go or visit schools, I invite them like I wrote about the color blue. What's your favorite color? These are some some things that I did to kind of learn about it. You can do these things to learn about your favorite color and write your own book? Michael Hingson  54:42 Yeah, yeah, it's, I think, so important to really draw people in and get them to think. And I think it's so much fun for me, I do some of that, but I have probably more of a chance. Challenge, because kids want to play with the dog. Yeah, it's all about the dog. I did a lecture at a K through six elementary school in San Francisco several years ago. I'm trying to remember what school it was anyway, and the teacher said you can only talk for about 10 or 12 minutes, because they just won't pay attention any longer than that. 35 minutes later, I finally ended the discussion, because they were so fascinated to hear me talk about what my dog did. And then I carried that over to how blind people work and function and all that. And the fact is, they were fascinated. The teachers couldn't believe it, but for me, it was a great lesson to know that it's all about creating these pictures that people can follow, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  55:53 yeah, and also to extending those pictures or those words into an experience for kids. Yeah, they really, they really appreciate, sort of like seeing it, kind of, you know, see if the having the concept come to life, yeah, way. And so I'm sure when they see your dog, or are able to interact with your dog, that must be so wonderful for them, Michael Hingson  56:22 but it's important for them to understand what the dog is all about. So by the time they get to interact with the dog, we've talked about things like, you never pet a guide dog in harness. This is what a guide dog does, and this is what they don't do. There are a lot of things to to cover. So it's great when I have the opportunity to really teach them. And sometimes we'll walk around a classroom and I'll show them what he does. Yeah, it's important to be able to do that. Oh, I love that. I love that. And he loves it, of course, all the way. So no question about that. He's you haven't lived until you've seen two or 300 kids all wanting to pet this dog. And the dog knows what to do. He's down on the floor with every appendage stretched out as far as he can go to maximize petting places, petting. Oh, it is so funny. I love that. He loves it. He's, he's, he's so happy. He doesn't care whether he'll do it more with kids even than adults, but, yeah, he'll do it with everybody. It's all about petting me and just remembering I'm the dog. I love that. Well, you've gone through a fair amount of time between books, and I'm sort of curious, what do you think about all the various kinds of changes and ebbs and flows that have come along in the book business, in the book publishing business and so on. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  57:56 Yeah, there have been a lot of changes. Um, I think, um, when my first book came out, like things like, you know, Instagram Bookstagram did not exist. There weren't many sort of podcasts or things of that nature. So I think that there is, there's definitely, there are more venues and more platforms to, you know, get the message out about the book. But I think also there is, it's also just hard. It's in some ways, it also feels in some ways more challenging to get the word out, because in addition to, like, yes, there are more venues in that way, regard, there are fewer book reviewers and fewer places to get a book reviewed, and there's a whole kind of interesting business about around getting reviews. So it's just not the same in that way. But then at the same time. I think what remains the same is connecting with readers. I think the most effective thing is, you know, writing a book that's good and then getting people who have read it and liked it to evangelize, to tell people I liked it, please buy it, or you should have you heard of and because at the end of the day, you know, that's what's going to, you know, give it some wind Michael Hingson  59:30 when thunder dog came out, and we did mention about reviews, and it actually has had, like well over 1600 reviews since it came out in 2011 live like a guide dog hasn't had, of course, so many yet, but every time I get a chance to talk about that book, I ask people to go review it and tell them why it's so important, because potential readers want to know what people think of the book. Yeah, for sure. For sure, it's. It really is important for readers to review and just be honest and say what you think. It's fine, but people should do that. For me, I think one of the biggest things that I see that publishers are doing less of is in a lot of ways, true marketing. You don't, you know, you don't see them doing nearly as much. Of course, I know it's more expensive, but to help create book tours or anything like that, they focus only on social media, and that's not the way to market the book. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:00:33 Yeah, I think, I mean, I've never worked inside a publishing office, so I don't know what actually, how they make these decisions and what goes on, but I do. I think what I have come to sort of think, how I've come to think of it, is the publisher is my business partner, sort of invested in terms of, they've given me an advance. They're going to do the turn key things like, you know, make sure the book gets reviewed by Publishers Weekly, or, sorry, Publishers Marketplace, or no Publishers Weekly. I was correct, and Kirkus review, Kirkus right, and all those kinds of things. And maybe they'll do a mailing to you know who they believe are the people that they need to mail it to. But outside of that, unless you know you, you know it's stipulated in your contract, or you know you are that high, yeah, you know that that celebrity author, or that that best selling author that they you know, are willing to put that money behind. You're working with some your publicist, who's been assigned to your book has is probably working on 10 other books. Can devote so much to it. And so what I've learned is thankful. I'm thankful that, you know, I have this publisher, but I also know that I need to do a lot of work on my own to get Michael Hingson  1:02:04 you've got to be your best marketer, yes, but, but there's value in that too, because you can tell the story whatever it is, like no one else, exactly, exactly. And so that's that's really pretty important, yeah, Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:02:18 for sure, for sure. And you can be, you know that I think, also giving yourself permission to be creative, yeah, you know, how can you get the word out in really creative ways, like, again, the publisher. These are things that like, if there was, you know, people, there were many people dedicated to your book for this amount of time, they could kind of sit there and brainstorm and do all those things. But, you know, the reality is, in most cases, it's a small it's a lean and mean team. They don't have that bandwidth, so yeah, just kind of coming up with creative ways. And at times, what I have learned to do is, how can I, if I have an idea that is maybe low cost and but I can't necessarily do it on my own? How can I ask them for support, because they do have, you know, a little bit more resources, Michael Hingson  1:03:16 yeah, and, and the how is really pretty simple. Actually, you just ask exactly, exactly, and you know either they will or they won't, or you'll share it, or whatever. And I have found that same thing to be true. Well, Nana, if people want to reach out to you, how do they do that? If they might want to talk about you doing copywriting for them or whatever, how can people find you? Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:03:41 So my website is Nana brew-hammond.com, can you spell please? It's n, a n, a, b, r, e, w, H, A, M, M, O, N, d.com, and I have a newsletter there. So a newsletter sign up. So they can sign up to be a part of my newsletter and connect with me that way. They can also find me on Instagram, I'm at n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a writer on Instagram, and I'm also on Facebook at that same name, and then on Twitter, I am that without the writer. So, n, a, n, a, e, K, U, a, Michael Hingson  1:04:28 okay, cool. Well, I hope people will reach out and and I hope that they will read your books and like them and review them. I hope the same thing. Well, I want to thank you for being here, and I want to thank all of you for listening and watching us today. We really appreciate you being here with us. I'd love to hear what you think. Please feel free to email me. I'm reachable at Michael H, I m, I C, H, A, E, L, H i at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, I. B, e.com, Michael H i@accessibe.com love to hear your thoughts and love to get your your opinions. I would really appreciate it if you would give us a five star rating when you have the opportunity to review this podcast. We really value your ratings and reviews very highly, and definitely want to know what you think, but please give us a great rating. We love that. If you know anyone who wants to be a guest on a podcast, or you think ought to be a guest, we're always looking for guests. And Nana you as well. If you know anyone, we're always looking for more people to come on the podcast and tell their stories. So we appreciate it. If you'd let us know. By the way, you can also go to my podcast page, www dot Michael hingson, M, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s o n.com/podcast, that's another way to reach out to me as well. But definitely anything you can do to bring more folks to us, we value it very highly. And so with that, once again, Nana, I want to thank you for being here. This has been great. Nana Ekua Brew-Hammond  1:06:01 Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me on, and you are such an inspiration. And thank you. Michael Hingson  1:06:13 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

The Page One Podcast, produced and hosted by author Holly Lynn Payne, celebrates the craft that goes into writing the first sentence, first paragraph and first page of your favorite books. The first page is often the most rewritten page of any book because it has to work so hard to do so much—hook the reader. We interview master storytellers on the struggles and stories behind the first page of their books.About the guest author:Arik Hously has served the Napa Valley community for more than 30 years, operating grocery stores, a winery and an Italian restaurant. An ardent soccer fan and former coach, Housley owns the men's and women's Napa Valley 1839 FC soccer teams. He and his family founded Alaina's Voice Foundation, in honor of their late daughter, to support education, music and mental health initiatives in Napa Valley. As a national speaker, Housley inspires others to “be the positive change” and cultivate compassion and strength in the face of adversity. You can find him at arikhousley.com, IG @arikjih8 and Substack @arikhousley.       About the host:Holly Lynn Payne is an award-winning novelist and writing coach, and the former CEO and founder of Booxby, a startup that built an AI book discovery platform with a grant from the National Science Foundation. She is an internationally published author of four historical fiction novels. Her debut, The Virgin's Knot, was a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers book. Her latest book, Rose Girl: A Story of Resilience and Rumi, a medieval, mystical thriller was awarded a Kirkus (starred) review and named Editors Choice from the Historical Novel Society. Holly lives on a houseboat near the Golden Gate Bridge with her daughter and Labrador retriever, and enjoys mountain biking, hiking, swimming and pretending to surf. To learn more about her books and writing coaching services, please visit her at hollylynnpayne.com  and subscribe to her FREE weekly mini-masterclass, Power of Page One, a FREE newsletter on Substack, offering insights on becoming a better storyteller and tips on hooking readers from page one! (And bonus: discover some great new books!)Tune in and reach out:If you're an aspiring writer or a book lover, this episode of Page One offers a treasure trove of inspiration and practical advice. I offer these conversations as a testament to the magic that happens when master storytellers share their secrets and experiences. We hope you are inspired to tune into the full episode for more insights. Keep writing, keep reading, and remember—the world needs your stories. If I can help you tell your own story, or help improve your first page, please reach out @hollylynnpayne or visithollylynnpayne.com. You can listen to Page One on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher and all your favorite podcast players. Hear past episodes. If you're interested in getting writing tips and the latest podcast episode updates with the world's beloved master storytellers, please sign up for my very short monthly newsletter at hollylynnpayne.com and follow me @hollylynnpayne on Instagram, Twitter, Goodreads, and Facebook. Your email address is always private and you can always unsubscribe anytime. The Page One Podcast is created on a houseboat in Sausalito, California, is a labor of love in service to writers and book lovers. My intention is to inspire, educate and celebrate. Thank you for being a part of my creative community! Be well and keep reading,Holly@hollylynnpayne on IG Thank you for listening to the Page One Podcast! I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I loved hosting, producing, and editing it. If you liked it too, here are three ways to share the love:Please share it on social and tag @hollylynnpayne.Leave a review on your favorite podcast players. Tell your friends. Please keep in touch by signing up to receive my Substack newsletter with the latest episodes each month. Delivered to your inbox with a smile. You can contact me at @hollylynnpayne on IG or send me a message on my website, hollylynnpayne.com.For the love of books and writers,Holly Lynn Payne@hollylynnpaynehost, author, writing coachwww.hollylynnpayne.com

Ayurvedic practitioner and author Heather Grzych talks with novelist Sam Sussman, author of the bestselling novel Boy from the North Country, in a candid conversation about parents, family history, and the stories we inherit without choosing. Together they explore how personal loss becomes fiction, how caregiving rewires the body, and what it means to grow up in the long shadow of myth, especially when people can't help but wonder if you might be Bob Dylan's son. Sam reflects on transforming intimate family truths into narrative, while Heather brings her embodied lens to the ways lineage shapes identity, creativity, and the emotional patterns we carry. This is a conversation about grief, legacy, and the strange wisdom inside the histories we're born into. Heather Grzych, ADLC is an American author and expert in Ayurvedic medicine who was formerly the president of the National Ayurvedic Medical Association and the head of product development for a multi-billion-dollar health insurance company. She also serves part of the faculty at Mount Madonna Institute College of Ayurveda. Heather's first book, The Ayurvedic Guide to Fertility, has sold thousands of copies worldwide, and her writing has been featured in Sports Illustrated, Yoga Journal, and the Sunday Independent. Her podcast, Wisdom of the Body, holds an average rating of 5 stars on Apple Podcasts and is in the top 2.5% of podcasts globally.  Sam Sussman is the author of the USA Today Bestselling debut novel Boy From the North Country. The novel was named Oprah's most anticipated debut novel of the fall, hailed by Kirkus as "the most beautiful and moving mother-son story in recent memory," and Sam was recently profiled in the New York Times. Boy From the North Country is based on Sam's Harper's Magazine memoir The Silent Type on (possibly) being Bob Dylan's son. Sam graduated with a BA Swarthmore and M.Phil from Oxford and has lived in Jerusalem and Berlin. He lives in the Yorkville neighborhood of Manhattan and his native Hudson Valley. http://www.samevansussman.org/ Connect with Heather: Learn more at www.heathergrzych.com   Instagram.com/heathergrzych Facebook.com/grzychheather   Read the first six pages of The Ayurvedic Guide to Fertility for FREE: https://www.heathergrzych.com   Connect with Heather to balance your health with Ayurveda: https://www.heathergrzych.com/book-online

Elle Marr is the author of thrillers THE MISSING SISTER (2020), LIES WE BURY (2021), STRANGERS WE KNOW (2022), THE FAMILY BONES (2023), THE ALONE TIME (2024), and YOUR DARK SECRETS (July 30). She is (evidently) a fan of coffee. Her work has been featured in PopSugar, Woman's World Magazine, Goodreads, Audible, and TV affiliates for CBS, ABC, FOX, and NBC. THE MISSING SISTER was a #1 Amazon bestseller and an Amazon Charts bestseller, while LIES WE BURY earned a Kirkus starred review, and STRANGERS WE KNOW was an Audible Most Anticipated Thriller. Publishers Weekly gave a starred review to THE FAMILY BONES, saying “Readers will be captivated from the very first page.”  THE ALONE TIME was chosen as the Amazon First Read, while Library Journal said it has “a finale that will surprise even the most perceptive readers.” Originally from Sacramento, Elle Marr graduated from UC San Diego before moving to France, where she earned a master's degree from the Sorbonne University in Paris.  When not working on her next book, she enjoys watching French Netflix shows with the subtitles off, in Oregon, where she lives with her family. Her latest novel is Your Dark Secrets. Learn more at ellemarr.com Special thanks to NetGalley for a review copy of Elle's new book. Intro reel, Writing Table Podcast 2024 Outro RecordingFollow the Writing Table: @writingtablepodcastEmail questions or tell us who you'd like us to invite to the Writing Table: writingtablepodcast@gmail.com.

Most of us think we'd never fall for a cult. We imagine the followers of Jim Jones as naïve, brainwashed, or broken people who “drank the Kool-Aid.” But what if that's not the truth at all?In this eye-opening episode, host Gabe Howard speaks with the award-winning author of “Death in the Jungle: Murder, Betrayal, and the Lost Dream of Jonestown,” Candace Fleming, about the real story behind Jonestown, aka the Peoples Temple, and the mass suicide that shocked the world. Fleming reveals how ordinary, intelligent, and socially conscious people were slowly drawn into Jim Jones's orbit — not because they wanted to die, but because they wanted to belong, to matter, and to change the world. Listener takeaways: Discover nine warning signs of a destructive or cult-like group. Learn why intelligent, well-intentioned people joined Jim Jones' cult. Explore how to recognize and protect yourself from coercive influences. Listen in as they explore how groupthink, manipulation, and gradual isolation can transform a movement with noble intentions into something deeply destructive.  Together, they dismantle the myths surrounding cults and reveal the psychological, emotional, and social dynamics that allow them to take hold. Ultimately, their conversation challenges us to confront an unsettling question: Could it happen to any of us? “They had started people with Peoples Temple, some of them back in the ‘50s when it was still in Indianapolis and truly was an integrated church, unheard of in the '50s. They followed Jones to California and then on to Guyana. And all of that was because of their own community. So people came for many reasons, but none of them because they were, as we would like to say, cultists, brainwashed, crazy.” ~Candace Fleming Our host, Candace Fleming, is the prolific and versatile award-winning author of many books for children and young adults. School Library Journal praised her most recent title, Murder Among Friends, which received four starred reviews, as a "chilling page-turner." Her previous book The Rise and Fall of Charles Lindbergh received six starred reviews, was a Kirkus, PW, Booklist, and SLJ Best Book of the Year, and was hailed by the Wall Street Journal as a “fascinating chronicle.” Candace's The Family Romanov also received six starred reviews, won the Boston Globe-Horn Book Award for Nonfiction and the Los Angeles Times Book Prize, and was recognized as a Sibert Nonfiction Honor Book. Her many acclaimed picture books include Giant Squid, a Sibert Honor Book. Visit her on the web at candacefleming.com. Our host, Gabe Howard, is an award-winning writer and speaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, "Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Observations," available from Amazon; signed copies are also available directly from the author. Gabe is also the host of the "Inside Bipolar" podcast with Dr. Nicole Washington. Gabe makes his home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. He lives with his supportive wife, Kendall, and a Miniature Schnauzer dog that he never wanted, but now can't imagine life without. To book Gabe for your next event or learn more about him, please visit gabehoward.com. Please Share the Show with EVERYONE You Know! Thank you! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textThis week on Here's What We Know, step into the world of pirates and hidden histories with bestselling author Samuel Marquis. In this conversation, we dig into the life of Captain William Kidd and explore where fact meets myth. Samuel shares how his family's connection to Kidd opened the door to a deeper look at piracy, courage, politics, and the stories that shape our understanding of early America.We talk about the rise of pirate legends, the real struggles sailors faced on the open seas, and the untold strength of Kidd's wife, Sarah Bradley Cox Kidd. Samuel also gives us a look into his writing process and how he works to honor history while still telling a powerful story.If you love rich conversations about identity, resilience, and the truth hidden behind old legends, this episode will pull you right in.In This Episode:Samuel Marquis and his unique connection to Captain KiddHow real pirate life compares to the stories we tellThe political tides that changed Captain Kidd's fateThe overlooked resilience of Sarah Bradley Cox KiddWhat early piracy reveals about the birth of American identityWhy these stories still capture our imagination todayThis episode is sponsored by:Sterling Oak Cabinetry (Bring your dream cabinet to life!)Dignity MemorialBio:The ninth-great-grandson of legendary privateer Captain William Kidd, Samuel Marquis, M.S., P.G., is a professional hydrogeologist, expert witness, and bestselling, award-winning author of twelve American non-fiction-history, historical-fiction, and suspense books, covering primarily the period from colonial America through WWII. His American history and historical fiction books have been #1 Denver Post bestsellers and received multiple national book awards (Publishers Weekly Starred Review, Kirkus and Foreword Reviews Book of the Year, American Book Fest and USA Best Book, Readers' Favorite, Beverly Hills, Independent Publisher, Colorado Book Awards). His historical titles have garnered glowing reviews from bestselling authors, colonial American history and maritime historians, U.S. military veterans, Publishers Weekly, Booklist, Kirkus Reviews, and Foreword Reviews (Starred, 5 Stars).Website: https://samuelmarquisbooks.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sammarquisbooks/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/samuelmarquisbooks/Connect with Gary: Gary's Website Follow Gary on Instagram Gary's Tiktok Gary's Facebook Watch the episodes on YouTube Advertise on the Podcast Thank you for listening. Let us know what you think about this episode. Leave us a review!

Revealing, insightful, necessary, candid conversation with the incomparable Jerry Craft, NYT bestselling author of the groundbreaking book New Kid.* Craft is the ONLY PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF EVER to have a book win the:Newbery Medal, the Coretta Scott King Author Award, and the Kirkus Prize for Young Readers' Literature* New Kid was the FIRST graphic novel to receive the prestigious Newbery Medal* New Kid is billed as a book for middle grade readers (ages 8 - 12, grades 3 - 7) however it is just as riveting and important a read FOR ADULTS An actual middle schooler, KJ Fletcher got to join his mom, host and producer Samantha Fletcher for this one of a kind opportunity. They caught up with the multi-talented and in-demand busy author, illustrator and all around wise guy – literally for his wisdom as well as his wit – Jerry Craft.Craft graciously answers 10 questions -- plus a few more because the host Samantha can't allow a good dig-in or follow up question to pass -- and shares why he wrote the book, why it's great for young people, AND why it is an ASSET and a MUST-READ for GROWNUPS, too.WHAT IS NEW KID ABOUT? Described as "heartbreakingly accurate" by Kirkus, here is an AI overview summary: "New Kid is a graphic novel by Jerry Craft about a Black seventh grader named Jordan Banks who is one of the few students of color at a prestigious, mostly-white private school. The book follows Jordan as he navigates this new environment, torn between his familiar Washington Heights neighborhood and the new school's culture, exploring themes like microaggressions, racism, and socioeconomic disparity. It's a coming-of-age story about making friends, fitting in, and staying true to himself while dealing with the challenges of being a new student from a different background."WHY KIRKUS CHOSE THIS AS ITS WINNER: "Kirkus chose Jerry Craft's New Kid for its honest portrayal of being a Black student in a predominantly white private school, handling race, class, and microaggressions with humor and a relatable protagonist. The graphic novel was praised for its "heartbreakingly accurate" and "funny, sharp, and totally real" story that allows readers to see themselves in a narrative that isn't based on "misery" or historical hardship, but instead on the everyday experiences of a young person navigating identity and belonging. Kirkus specifically highlighted how the book combined a middle-grade narrative with important social commentary, using the protagonist's art to visualize his dual worlds."www.samanthafletcher.comhttps://jerrycraft.com/https://creators.spotify.com/pod/profile/dailybordercrossings/ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/daily-border-crossings/id1517113315

We're continuing our Best Books of 2025 coverage with a special episode dedicated to nonfiction. First, Jen Hatmaker joins us to discuss Awake: A Memoir (Avid Reader Press, Sept. 23), one of Kirkus' Best Nonfiction Books of the year. Then nonfiction editor John McMurtrie dishes on more of the year's best books.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

We're kicking off our Best Books of 2025 coverage with a special episode dedicated to fiction. First, Lily King joins us to discuss Heart the Lover (Grove, September 30), one of Kirkus' Best Fiction Books of the year. Then fiction editor Laurie Muchnick dishes on the year's best novels and story collections. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The Page One Podcast, produced and hosted by author Holly Lynn Payne, celebrates the craft that goes into writing the first sentence, first paragraph and first page of your favorite books. The first page is often the most rewritten page of any book because it has to work so hard to do so much—hook the reader. We interview master storytellers on the struggles and stories behind the first page of their books.About the guest author:In addition to being the author of The Way of The Rose,  which she spoke about with her co-author and husband Clark Strand on Ep. 49 of the Page One Podcast, Perdita Finn is the author of several children's books and middle grade novels, including the Time Flyers series for Scholastic Books, My Little Pony Books, among many others and has worked as ghostwriter, book doctor, copy editor and writing teacher. Perdita Finna also has done extensive study with Zen masters, priests, and healers, and apprenticed with the psychic Susan Saxman, with whom she wrote The Reluctant Psychic. She currently leads popular workshops on Collaborating with the Other Side, in which participants are empowered to activate the magic in their own lives with the help of their ancestors. She lives with her husband in the Catskill Mountains of New York.About the host:Holly Lynn Payne is an award-winning novelist and writing coach, and the former CEO and founder of Booxby, a startup that built an AI book discovery platform with a grant from the National Science Foundation. She is an internationally published author of four historical fiction novels. Her debut, The Virgin's Knot, was a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers book. Her latest book, Rose Girl: A Story of Resilience and Rumi, a medieval, mystical thriller was awarded a Kirkus (starred) review and named Editors Choice from the Historical Novel Society. Holly lives on a houseboat near the Golden Gate Bridge with her daughter and Labrador retriever, and enjoys mountain biking, hiking, swimming and pretending to surf. To learn more about her books and writing coaching services, please visit her at hollylynnpayne.com  and subscribe to her FREE weekly mini-masterclass, Power of Page One, a FREE newsletter on Substack, offering insights on becoming a better storyteller and tips on hooking readers from page one! (And bonus: discover some great new books!)Tune in and reach out:If you're an aspiring writer or a book lover, this episode of Page One offers a treasure trove of inspiration and practical advice. I offer these conversations as a testament to the magic that happens when master storytellers share their secrets and experiences. We hope you are inspired to tune into the full episode for more insights. Keep writing, keep reading, and remember—the world needs your stories. If I can help you tell your own story, or help improve your first page, please reach out @hollylynnpayne or visithollylynnpayne.com. You can listen to Page One on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, Stitcher and all your favorite podcast players. Hear past episodes. If you're interested in getting writing tips and the latest podcast episode updates with the world's beloved master storytellers, please sign up for my very short monthly newsletter at hollylynnpayne.com and follow me @hollylynnpayne on Instagram, Twitter, Goodreads, and Facebook. Your email address is always private and you can always unsubscribe anytime. The Page One Podcast is created on a houseboat in Sausalito, California, is a labor of love in service to writers and book lovers. My intention is to inspire, educate and celebrate. Thank you for being a part of my creative community! Be well and keep reading,Holly@hollylynnpayne on IG Thank you for listening to the Page One Podcast! I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I loved hosting, producing, and editing it. If you liked it too, here are three ways to share the love:Please share it on social and tag @hollylynnpayne.Leave a review on your favorite podcast players. Tell your friends. Please keep in touch by signing up to receive my Substack newsletter with the latest episodes each month. Delivered to your inbox with a smile. You can contact me at @hollylynnpayne on IG or send me a message on my website, hollylynnpayne.com.For the love of books and writers,Holly Lynn Payne@hollylynnpaynehost, author, writing coachwww.hollylynnpayne.com

New York Times bestselling author Catherine Newman joins us to discuss Wreck (Harper/HarperCollins, October 28), the follow-up to 2024's Sandwich. Kirkus calls the new novel, “A heartbreaking, laugh-provoking, and absolutely Ephron-esque look at the beauty and fragility of everyday life” (starred review). Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Twelve year-old Serenity Noah has never told anyone about her recurring nightmares -- the haunting images of silver butterflies whose flapping wings drive away all sound, leaving only suffocating silence in their wake. Her parents already favor her "perfect" younger brother, Peace, and she doesn't want to be seen as the "problem" child. Instead, Serenity's found a productive way to channel her fears: creating a horror movie as scary as her nightmares.When Peace suddenly becomes afraid of the dark and refuses to sleep alone, their parents take him away for "treatment" on Duppy Island. Serenity has a very bad feeling about the mysterious island and the facility's creepy leader, Dr. Whisper. And when she sees a silver butterfly from her nightmares in the forbidden forest she realizes that something is seriously, dangerously awry.But nothing could've prepared Serenity for the truth: the island is home to douens -- faceless children with backward feet who are trapped in limbo between the world of the living and the land of the dead. And unless Serenity acts soon, her brother is going to join their ranks... Shakirah Bourne is a Bajan author and filmmaker. She once shot a movie scene in a cave with bats during an earthquake, but is too scared to watch horror movies. She is a recipient of the Governor General Award for Excellence in Literary Fiction for her short fiction collection, IN TIME OF NEED. Her first children's book, JOSEPHINE AGAINST THE SEA, received starred reviews in Kirkus and Booklist, was a SLJ Best Book of 2021, A Black Caucus of the ALA Best Book of 2021 and an Ignyte Award Finalist for Best Middle Grade Novel.She was also the co-editor of YA non-fiction anthology, ALLIES: Real Talk About Growing Up, Screwing Up and Trying Again (DK/PRH, 2021), which was a World Book Day Selection in the UK. Her upcoming middle grade horror, NIGHTMARE ISLAND, a tale based on Caribbean folklore, will be published by Scholastic in June 2023.

Former U.S. Attorney Joyce Vance joins us to discuss Giving Up Is Unforgivable: A Manual for Keeping a Democracy (Dutton, October 21). Kirkus calls it, “A hopeful manifesto for a renewed democracy.” Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Lindsey Cornett, Managing Editor of Englewood Press, spoke with authors Sarah Arthur and Mitali Perkins about the value and significance of children's literature for spiritual formation. We discuss how literature connects us to the heart of God, how Mitali and Sarah think about their own audiences as they write, and why adults should be reading children's literature. As always, the conversation wraps up with a discussion of what we've been reading lately.Lindsey Cornett is a loud talker, obsessive coffee drinker, and lover of the written word who lives in Indianapolis with her family. She is the Managing Editor of Englewood Press and a Senior Writer at Indianapolis Moms. You can find her writing at lindseycornett.substack.com. Mitali Perkins is an award-winning author of novels and picture books for young readers, including You Bring the Distant Near; Forward Me Back to You; Rickshaw Girl; and Bamboo People, among others. Her books have been nominated for the National Book Award, have won the South Asia Book Award, and have been listed as Best Book of the Year by Publishers Weekly, Kirkus, and School Library Journal. Born in Kolkata, India, Perkins has lived in India, Ghana, Cameroon, Great Britain, Mexico, Bangladesh, Thailand, and the United States. She lives and writes in the San Francisco Bay Area.Sarah Arthur is a fun-loving speaker and the bestselling author of a dozen books for teens and adults, including Once a Queen and Walking with Frodo. Among other nerdy adventures, she has served as preliminary fiction judge for the CT Book Awards, was a founding board member of the annual C. S. Lewis Festival in Northern Michigan, and codirects the Madeleine L'Engle Writing Retreats.Books Mentioned in this Episode:If you'd like to order any of the following books, we encourage you to do so from Hearts and Minds Books(An independent bookstore in Dallastown, PA, run by Byron and Beth Borger) Once A Queen (Book 1 of the Carrick Hall Novels) by Sarah ArthurOnce a Castle (Book 2 of the Carrick Hall Novels) by Sarah ArthurYou Bring the Distant Near by Mitali PerkinsRickshaw Girl by Mitali PerkinsThe Golden Necklace: A Darjeeling Tea Mystery by Mitali PerkinsSteeped In Stories: Timeless Children's Novels to Refresh Our Tired Souls by Mitali PerkinsThe God-Hungry Imagination: The Art of Storytelling for Postmodern Youth Ministry by Sarah Arthur A Little Princess by Frances Hodgson BurnettThe Secret Garden by Frances Hodgson BurnettCharlotte's Web by E.B. WhiteA Light so Lovely: The Spiritual Legacy of Madeleine L'Engle by Sarah ArthurA Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'EnglePeace Like a River by Leif AngerThe Same Stuff as Stars by Katherine PatersonMy Friends by Fredrick BackmanThe Eyre Affair (Thursday Next #1) by Jasper FfordeEmily of Deep Valley by Maud Hart Lovelace

Astrid Sheckels continues the wit and whimsy of childhood through her marvelous and magnificent illustrations and storytelling. You might recognize her from the Hector Fox and Friends series or Sea Dog and Sea Dog Rescue, and she created the gorgeous cover and interior illustrations for Beyond Mulberry Glen by Millie Florence. Today we're chatting about her new book, Flora and the Jazzers, which Kirkus called “sumptuously illustrated” in their starred review and I couldn't agree more. This jazz-age Cinderella story starring a ferret named Flora and set in a 1920s New York hotel is going to blow you away, I just know it. Astrid is a New Englander who loves to paint animals in clothes, so clearly she is a woman after my own heart, and I just know you'll fall in love with her too.In this episode, you'll hear: How childhood family read-alouds instilled a love for stories in AstridThe way one of Astrid's earliest childhood drawings became the inspiration for FloraWhy a sketchbook is an ideal tool for budding creatives Learn more about Sarah Mackenzie:Read-Aloud RevivalWaxwing BooksSubscribe to the NewsletterFind the rest of the show notes at: readaloudrevival.com/astrid-sheckels Don't forget to pre-order your copy of Flora and the Jazzers and then tell us you did so you get your pre-order bonus mail! 

Nagasaki: The Last Witnesses (Penguin Random House, 2025) is the second volume in a prize-worthy two-book series based on years of irreplicable personal interviews with survivors about each of the atomic bomb drops, first in Hiroshima and then Nagasaki, that hastened the end of the Pacific War. On August 6, 1945, the United States unleashed a weapon unlike anything the world had ever seen. Then, just three days later, when Japan showed no sign of surrender, the United States took aim at Nagasaki.Rendered in harrowing detail, this historical narrative is the second and final volume in M. G. Sheftall's series Embers. Sheftall has spent years personally interviewing hibakusha—the Japanese word for atomic bomb survivors. These last living witnesses are a vanishing memory resource, the only people who can still provide us with reliable and detailed testimony about life in their cities before the use of nuclear weaponry.The result is an intimate, firsthand account of life in Nagasaki, and the story of incomprehensible devastation and resilience in the aftermath of the second atomic bomb drop. This blow-by-blow account takes us from the city streets, as word of the attack on Hiroshima reaches civilians, to the cockpit of Bockscar, when Charles Sweeney dropped “Fat Man,” to the interminable six days while the world waited to see if Japan would surrender to the Allies–or if more bombs would fall. Related Genres: Asian World History, 1950 – Present Military History, World War II Military History Praise for M.G. Sheftall's Embers Series: “Sheftall's meticulous, novelistic recreations are deeply immersive. It's an invaluable contribution to 20th century history.”—Publishers Weekly on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II) (starred review)“A definitive account of a watershed moment in history.”—Kirkus on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II)“M.G. Sheftall's Hiroshima presents as a master class in eyewitness storytelling. As poignant as it is powerful, this gripping narrative chronicles one of history's darkest nightmare moments—the atomic bombing of Hiroshima in August 1945—and the memories of its surviving eyewitnesses. As the events fade from living memory, Hiroshima is at once a brilliant tribute and a cautionary tale.”—Annie Jacobsen, author of Nuclear War: A Scenario“An important, deep-dive book into most every detail about the atomic bomb's making and use, in anger. A strong argument for why it must never be allowed to be used for any reason whatsoever. This book adds significantly to the argument that we need to back up fast and return to nuclear arms reduction.”—Charles Pellegrino, author of To Hell and Back: The Last Train from Hiroshima“M.G. Sheftall takes us on a deep dive into one of the most significant and horrific events in world history. Hiroshima is a gripping, moving story of fear and shame, courage and grace, and a powerful argument that we should never, ever use these weapons again.”—Evan Thomas, author of Road to Surrender: Three Men and the Countdown to the End of World War II“A compelling analysis of the suffering endured by the citizens of Hiroshima in the aftermath of the dropping of the nuclear bomb on 6 August 1945. Written by a scholar who lives and works in Japan, and who has interviewed many of the last survivors, this is a book that offers valuable insights into Japanese thinking during the war and the subsequent struggle to rebuild the country.”—Laurence Rees, author of Auschwitz and The Holocaust Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Nagasaki: The Last Witnesses (Penguin Random House, 2025) is the second volume in a prize-worthy two-book series based on years of irreplicable personal interviews with survivors about each of the atomic bomb drops, first in Hiroshima and then Nagasaki, that hastened the end of the Pacific War. On August 6, 1945, the United States unleashed a weapon unlike anything the world had ever seen. Then, just three days later, when Japan showed no sign of surrender, the United States took aim at Nagasaki.Rendered in harrowing detail, this historical narrative is the second and final volume in M. G. Sheftall's series Embers. Sheftall has spent years personally interviewing hibakusha—the Japanese word for atomic bomb survivors. These last living witnesses are a vanishing memory resource, the only people who can still provide us with reliable and detailed testimony about life in their cities before the use of nuclear weaponry.The result is an intimate, firsthand account of life in Nagasaki, and the story of incomprehensible devastation and resilience in the aftermath of the second atomic bomb drop. This blow-by-blow account takes us from the city streets, as word of the attack on Hiroshima reaches civilians, to the cockpit of Bockscar, when Charles Sweeney dropped “Fat Man,” to the interminable six days while the world waited to see if Japan would surrender to the Allies–or if more bombs would fall. Related Genres: Asian World History, 1950 – Present Military History, World War II Military History Praise for M.G. Sheftall's Embers Series: “Sheftall's meticulous, novelistic recreations are deeply immersive. It's an invaluable contribution to 20th century history.”—Publishers Weekly on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II) (starred review)“A definitive account of a watershed moment in history.”—Kirkus on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II)“M.G. Sheftall's Hiroshima presents as a master class in eyewitness storytelling. As poignant as it is powerful, this gripping narrative chronicles one of history's darkest nightmare moments—the atomic bombing of Hiroshima in August 1945—and the memories of its surviving eyewitnesses. As the events fade from living memory, Hiroshima is at once a brilliant tribute and a cautionary tale.”—Annie Jacobsen, author of Nuclear War: A Scenario“An important, deep-dive book into most every detail about the atomic bomb's making and use, in anger. A strong argument for why it must never be allowed to be used for any reason whatsoever. This book adds significantly to the argument that we need to back up fast and return to nuclear arms reduction.”—Charles Pellegrino, author of To Hell and Back: The Last Train from Hiroshima“M.G. Sheftall takes us on a deep dive into one of the most significant and horrific events in world history. Hiroshima is a gripping, moving story of fear and shame, courage and grace, and a powerful argument that we should never, ever use these weapons again.”—Evan Thomas, author of Road to Surrender: Three Men and the Countdown to the End of World War II“A compelling analysis of the suffering endured by the citizens of Hiroshima in the aftermath of the dropping of the nuclear bomb on 6 August 1945. Written by a scholar who lives and works in Japan, and who has interviewed many of the last survivors, this is a book that offers valuable insights into Japanese thinking during the war and the subsequent struggle to rebuild the country.”—Laurence Rees, author of Auschwitz and The Holocaust Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/east-asian-studies

Nagasaki: The Last Witnesses (Penguin Random House, 2025) is the second volume in a prize-worthy two-book series based on years of irreplicable personal interviews with survivors about each of the atomic bomb drops, first in Hiroshima and then Nagasaki, that hastened the end of the Pacific War. On August 6, 1945, the United States unleashed a weapon unlike anything the world had ever seen. Then, just three days later, when Japan showed no sign of surrender, the United States took aim at Nagasaki.Rendered in harrowing detail, this historical narrative is the second and final volume in M. G. Sheftall's series Embers. Sheftall has spent years personally interviewing hibakusha—the Japanese word for atomic bomb survivors. These last living witnesses are a vanishing memory resource, the only people who can still provide us with reliable and detailed testimony about life in their cities before the use of nuclear weaponry.The result is an intimate, firsthand account of life in Nagasaki, and the story of incomprehensible devastation and resilience in the aftermath of the second atomic bomb drop. This blow-by-blow account takes us from the city streets, as word of the attack on Hiroshima reaches civilians, to the cockpit of Bockscar, when Charles Sweeney dropped “Fat Man,” to the interminable six days while the world waited to see if Japan would surrender to the Allies–or if more bombs would fall. Related Genres: Asian World History, 1950 – Present Military History, World War II Military History Praise for M.G. Sheftall's Embers Series: “Sheftall's meticulous, novelistic recreations are deeply immersive. It's an invaluable contribution to 20th century history.”—Publishers Weekly on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II) (starred review)“A definitive account of a watershed moment in history.”—Kirkus on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II)“M.G. Sheftall's Hiroshima presents as a master class in eyewitness storytelling. As poignant as it is powerful, this gripping narrative chronicles one of history's darkest nightmare moments—the atomic bombing of Hiroshima in August 1945—and the memories of its surviving eyewitnesses. As the events fade from living memory, Hiroshima is at once a brilliant tribute and a cautionary tale.”—Annie Jacobsen, author of Nuclear War: A Scenario“An important, deep-dive book into most every detail about the atomic bomb's making and use, in anger. A strong argument for why it must never be allowed to be used for any reason whatsoever. This book adds significantly to the argument that we need to back up fast and return to nuclear arms reduction.”—Charles Pellegrino, author of To Hell and Back: The Last Train from Hiroshima“M.G. Sheftall takes us on a deep dive into one of the most significant and horrific events in world history. Hiroshima is a gripping, moving story of fear and shame, courage and grace, and a powerful argument that we should never, ever use these weapons again.”—Evan Thomas, author of Road to Surrender: Three Men and the Countdown to the End of World War II“A compelling analysis of the suffering endured by the citizens of Hiroshima in the aftermath of the dropping of the nuclear bomb on 6 August 1945. Written by a scholar who lives and works in Japan, and who has interviewed many of the last survivors, this is a book that offers valuable insights into Japanese thinking during the war and the subsequent struggle to rebuild the country.”—Laurence Rees, author of Auschwitz and The Holocaust Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/military-history

Nagasaki: The Last Witnesses (Penguin Random House, 2025) is the second volume in a prize-worthy two-book series based on years of irreplicable personal interviews with survivors about each of the atomic bomb drops, first in Hiroshima and then Nagasaki, that hastened the end of the Pacific War. On August 6, 1945, the United States unleashed a weapon unlike anything the world had ever seen. Then, just three days later, when Japan showed no sign of surrender, the United States took aim at Nagasaki.Rendered in harrowing detail, this historical narrative is the second and final volume in M. G. Sheftall's series Embers. Sheftall has spent years personally interviewing hibakusha—the Japanese word for atomic bomb survivors. These last living witnesses are a vanishing memory resource, the only people who can still provide us with reliable and detailed testimony about life in their cities before the use of nuclear weaponry.The result is an intimate, firsthand account of life in Nagasaki, and the story of incomprehensible devastation and resilience in the aftermath of the second atomic bomb drop. This blow-by-blow account takes us from the city streets, as word of the attack on Hiroshima reaches civilians, to the cockpit of Bockscar, when Charles Sweeney dropped “Fat Man,” to the interminable six days while the world waited to see if Japan would surrender to the Allies–or if more bombs would fall. Related Genres: Asian World History, 1950 – Present Military History, World War II Military History Praise for M.G. Sheftall's Embers Series: “Sheftall's meticulous, novelistic recreations are deeply immersive. It's an invaluable contribution to 20th century history.”—Publishers Weekly on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II) (starred review)“A definitive account of a watershed moment in history.”—Kirkus on Nagasaki (Embers: Volume II)“M.G. Sheftall's Hiroshima presents as a master class in eyewitness storytelling. As poignant as it is powerful, this gripping narrative chronicles one of history's darkest nightmare moments—the atomic bombing of Hiroshima in August 1945—and the memories of its surviving eyewitnesses. As the events fade from living memory, Hiroshima is at once a brilliant tribute and a cautionary tale.”—Annie Jacobsen, author of Nuclear War: A Scenario“An important, deep-dive book into most every detail about the atomic bomb's making and use, in anger. A strong argument for why it must never be allowed to be used for any reason whatsoever. This book adds significantly to the argument that we need to back up fast and return to nuclear arms reduction.”—Charles Pellegrino, author of To Hell and Back: The Last Train from Hiroshima“M.G. Sheftall takes us on a deep dive into one of the most significant and horrific events in world history. Hiroshima is a gripping, moving story of fear and shame, courage and grace, and a powerful argument that we should never, ever use these weapons again.”—Evan Thomas, author of Road to Surrender: Three Men and the Countdown to the End of World War II“A compelling analysis of the suffering endured by the citizens of Hiroshima in the aftermath of the dropping of the nuclear bomb on 6 August 1945. Written by a scholar who lives and works in Japan, and who has interviewed many of the last survivors, this is a book that offers valuable insights into Japanese thinking during the war and the subsequent struggle to rebuild the country.”—Laurence Rees, author of Auschwitz and The Holocaust Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/japanese-studies

On our Best October books episode, Kirkus' editors share their top titles for the month. Then Kate McKinnon joins us to discuss Secrets of the Purple Pearl, book two in her #1 New York Times-bestselling middle grade series, “The Millicent Quibb School of Etiquette for Young Ladies of Mad Science” (Little, Brown, September 30). “In a race against their enemies, the Porch girls must find a peculiar pearl in order to foil a fiendish plot… Unforgettably quirky, fast-paced fun” (starred review).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Host Jason Blitman talks to 2025 Kirkus and National Book Award longlisted author Angela Flournoy about her newest book, THE WILDERNESS. Highlights include:

Author-illustrator YY Liak joins us to discuss Curious Coffins and Riveting Rituals: Death Practices Around the World (Chronicle Books, September 30), a vibrant volume Kirkus calls “an endearing and lighthearted look at the fate that awaits us all.” Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/americans-spend-time-reading-fun-time-screens-study/story?id=124807367Our website - www.perksofbeingabooklover.com. Instagram - @perksofbeingabookloverpod Facebook - Perks of Being a Book Lover. To send us a message go to our website and click the Contact button.   You can find Sam Sussman at www.samevansussman.org or on IG at @sam_sussman.   Our guest is debut novelist Sam Sussman whose book Boy From the North Country comes out this week. Sam originally wrote a short memoir piece for Harper's Magazine that referred to the possibility that he might be Bob Dylan's son but really the essay focused on his relationship with his mom, who had had a love affair with the musician. Eventually, Sam decided to explode the moment, or the series of moments of his life and with his mother, to get a better handle on who he was and how much that was about who his mom was and how she had raised him, not whether his father was Dylan.  The book is receiving high marks in early reviews, and Sam has been making the rounds in newspapers and magazines, including a profile by the New York Times. Publisher's Weekly, Kirkus, The Library Journal, and the American Library Association have all given Boy From the North Country starred reviews.    And for our book rec section of the show, we're thinking about books that center on male relationships.  We realize that our guests and listeners are primarily female, but we thought we would equal the playing field a little by talking about books that deal with father-son relationships, male friendships or brotherly love.  We have a multigenerational story about the men in a Mexican-American family, a group of friends in a small town of the American Midwest, a pair of quirky Irish friends, a memoir about two very different guys at Harvard, two Greek heroes and their deep relationship, and boys from different cultures who develop a bond in unlikely circumstances.    Books Mentioned in this Episode:   1- Boy From the North Country by Sam Sussman 2- The Celebrants by Steven Rowley 3- The Guncle by Steven Rowley 4- In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust  5- Anima Rising by Christopher Moore  6- The Last Mona Lisa by Jonathan Santlofer  7- The Lost Van Gogh by Jonathan Santlofer 8-  A Five Star Read Recommended by Fellow Book Lover Megan Burnett - The Weight of Ink by Rachel Kadish  9- We Should Not Be Friends: The Story of a Friendship by Will Schwalbe  10- The Sons of El Rey by Alex Espinoza  11- Shotgun Lovesongs by Nickolas Bulter  12- A Forty Year Kiss by Nickolas Butler  13- The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller  14- Circe by Madeline Miller  15- Nowhere Boy by Katherine Marsh  16- Leonard and Hungry Paul by Ronan Hession   Media Mentioned -  1- The Silent Type: On Possibly Being Bob Dylan's Son- https://harpers.org/archive/2021/05/the-silent-type-on-possibly-being-bob-dylans-son/ 2- School Cell Phone Ban Increases Library Visits - https://www.wave3.com/2025/09/02/school-cell-phone-ban-creates-surge-jcps-library-visits/ 3- Reading for Pleasure Declines - https://abcnews.go.com/Health/americans-spend-time-reading-fun-time-screens-study/story?id=124807367 4- The Four Seasons (Netflix 2025) 5- The Four Seasons (1981) 6- How the Passionate Male Friendship Died --https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2025/05/men-friendship-history/682815/    

Bestselling author Leni Zumas (Red Clocks) joins us to discuss her latest novel, Wolf Bells (Algonquin, September 16). “A young girl and her autistic cousin seek refuge in an intergenerational community,” Kirkus writes in a review of this “tender and well-told story about the meaning of family.” Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

National Book Award finalist and PEN/Faulkner Award winner Rabih Alameddine joins us to discuss The True True Story of Raja the Gullible (And His Mother) (Grove, September 2). Kirkus calls his latest novel “a sharp exploration of resilience in dark times.” Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This week we come back to a topic, the mother-daughter relationship, we've covered in various ways over the years. Author Jeannie Vanasco has a unique take, however, in that her mother lived with her while she was writing her new book, A Silent Treatment. She shares with us about writing from “within an experience” and why she wrote this book “for” her mother. There are endless nuances to explore when it comes to the mother-daughter relationship, and Grant and Brooke get into why this is a dynamic that memoirists will always be drawn to. Jeannie Vanasco is the author of the memoirs Things We Didn't Talk About When I Was a Girl—which was named a ​New York Times Editors' Choice and a best book of 2019 by TIME, Esquire, Kirkus, among others—and The Glass Eye, which Poets & Writers called one of the five best literary nonfiction debuts of 2017. Her third book,  A Silent Treatment, is out this month on Tin House. Born and raised in Sandusky, Ohio, she lives in Baltimore and is an associate professor of English at Towson University. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week we come back to a topic, the mother-daughter relationship, we've covered in various ways over the years. Author Jeannie Vanasco has a unique take, however, in that her mother lived with her while she was writing her new book, A Silent Treatment. She shares with us about writing from “within an experience” and why she wrote this book “for” her mother. There are endless nuances to explore when it comes to the mother-daughter relationship, and Grant and Brooke get into why this is a dynamic that memoirists will always be drawn to. Jeannie Vanasco is the author of the memoirs Things We Didn't Talk About When I Was a Girl—which was named a ​New York Times Editors' Choice and a best book of 2019 by TIME, Esquire, Kirkus, among others—and The Glass Eye, which Poets & Writers called one of the five best literary nonfiction debuts of 2017. Her third book,  A Silent Treatment, is out this month on Tin House. Born and raised in Sandusky, Ohio, she lives in Baltimore and is an associate professor of English at Towson University. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

On our Best September books episode, Kirkus' editors share their top titles for the month. Then Eliana Ramage joins us to discuss To the Moon and Back (Avid Reader Press, September 2), a debut novel about a gifted young woman who dreams of becoming the first Cherokee astronaut. Kirkus: “This author is as ambitious as her protagonist: There are three novels worth of material here, all good. The moon or bust!” (starred review).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Charlie Jane Anders joins us to discuss her eagerly anticipated new novel, Lessons in Magic and Disaster (Tor, Aug. 19), about a young witch who teaches her mother how to do magic. In a starred review, Kirkus says it offers “much to ponder, much to cry over and rage against, much to appreciate.” Then our editors recommend their top picks in books for the week. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

A special Sunday episode featuring Amanda Yates Garcia, also known as The Oracle of Los Angeles. Amanda is a writer, socially engaged artist, public witch, and doctoral student in the department of World Arts Cultures and Dance at UCLA. Her first book, Initiated, received a starred review from Kirkus and Publisher's Weekly and has been translated into six languages. Amanda hosts the Between the Worlds podcast, which looks at the Western Mystery traditions through a mythopoetic lens and has been downloaded over 2.5 million times, with over 1,900 five-star reviews. Amanda is the founder of Mystery Cult, a 20k strong online and in-person community on Substack dedicated to eco-somatic ritual practice and cultivating radical enchantment. *** ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Otherppl with Brad Listi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a weekly podcast featuring in-depth interviews with today's leading writers. Available where podcasts are available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Apple Podcasts⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, etc. Subscribe to Brad's email newsletter. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Support the show on Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Merch⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bluesky⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email the show: letters [at] otherppl [dot] com The podcast is a ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠proud affiliate partner of Bookshop⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, working to support local, independent bookstores. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On our Best August books episode, Kirkus' editors share their top titles for the month. River Selby joins us to discuss Hotshot: A Life on Fire (Atlantic Monthly, Aug. 5), a debut memoir chronicling their time as an elite firefighter. Kirkus: “With fortitude and admirable vulnerability, Selby brings readers directly into a tumultuous time and place. Like fire, this book burns hot” (starred review).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Episode 572 - David Galef - Where I Went Wrong - A must-read for anyone who has ever screwed up royallyDavid Galef is an American fiction writer, critic, poet, translator, and essayist because he can't seem to make up his mind what to specialize in, though he's been a writer for over 40 years. He's published over fifteen books, from novels and short story collections and children's books to poetry books, criticism, and translation. A few highlights: His third novel, How to Cope with Suburban Stress, made Kirkus' “Best Books of the Year.” His second short story collection, My Date with Neanderthal Woman, won Dzanc Books' inaugural short story collection prize, and the title story was performed at Selected Shorts at Symphony Space. David received a B.A. in English from Princeton, and an M.A. and Ph.D. in English from Columbia, with a specialty in British Modernism. From 1989 to 2008, he was a professor of English at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, where he administered the M.F.A. program in creative writing until 2007. In 2008, he received a Fulbright Fellowship to live in Tokyo for four months, after which he returned home, landed a job in New Jersey, and hopped back over the Mason-Dixon line. He is now a professor of English and the creative writing program director at Montclair State University.David is married to the journalist and editor Beth Weinhouse. Their son, Daniel Galef, is a writer, too, God help him. David and his family live in Montclair, New Jersey, a cool, artsy community where you can't throw a rock without hitting at least three writers.Fun fact (at least some people find it fun): David has also been a humor columnist for Inside Higher Ed, where he wrote for years about a school called U of All People.Book: Where I Went WrongTony Mazza is having a bad day, which is what a lot of his days are like lately. He's worked at a real estate agency, a bike shop, and a bar, among other places, and he's currently managing as a hospital orderly. Or at least he was until, high on Percocet, he drove off with stolen property in an ambulance owned by the hospital and crashed into another ambulance. “Where did I go wrong?” he wonders aloud from his jail cell. Tony often wonders about this, whether it's losing the affection of his kids (he's twice divorced) or making a gaffe when selling a house to a prospective buyer. But he's not hapless, he's rather smart, and he's even rather likeable. So where did he go wrong? This question keeps cropping up as each chapter takes Tony further back in time: issues with his first wife, disastrous investments, unfortunate family events in high school and earlier . . . all the way back to his birth, as recounted by his mother. Where I Went Wrong is Tony Mazza's story, a novel that's both comic and serious, exploring why some people fail while others get away with little short of murder.https://davidgalef.com/Support the show___https://livingthenextchapter.com/podcast produced by: https://truemediasolutions.ca/Coffee Refills are always appreciated, refill Dave's cup here, and thanks!https://buymeacoffee.com/truemediaca

Click Here to ask your book writing and publishing questions!Ever feel like everyone has some secret book marketing hack? Most of those “shortcuts” are just expensive detours.In this episode, I'm calling out three distractions that keep indie authors spinning their wheels. First up: Kirkus Reviews. Are they legit? Yes. Are they worth the price for most self-published authors? Maybe. But if you're hoping a $400 review is going to move thousands of copies, well, it probably won't. Then we dive into the Amazon Bestseller badge obsession. Finally, we'll talk about AI. As someone who edits A LOT of manuscripts, I can spot AI-generated content from a mile away. So can readers. In publishing, the long game truly is the shortcut.***Want to learn how to actually get your book in front of the right readers? My Amazon Ads for Indie Authors course is officially open—with early bird pricing! Now live at publishaprofitablebook.com/amazonads. 

Memoir Nation has a touching episode this week with fashion designer Prabal Gurang, who shares about his relationship with his mother, who, in allowing him to pursue his joy, encouraged him also to pursue his dreams of fashion design. We discuss the power of reading a memoir aloud and the emotions that evokes, and about authenticity on the page when you set out just to write the best story you can write—not necessarily coming to your memoir as the best or most trained writer in the world, but rather as someone with a story that matters. Much inspiration here this week! Prabal Gurang is a famous fashion designer who is also a memoirist. His new book, Write Like a Girl, tells the story of his childhood in Singapore and Nepal, education in India, and career in the U.S. fashion industry, where he was subjected to racial discrimination. A reviewer for Kirkus called the memoir “an insightful and entertaining look into the life of a famous fashion designer.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Memoir Nation has a touching episode this week with fashion designer Prabal Gurang, who shares about his relationship with his mother, who, in allowing him to pursue his joy, encouraged him also to pursue his dreams of fashion design. We discuss the power of reading a memoir aloud and the emotions that evokes, and about authenticity on the page when you set out just to write the best story you can write—not necessarily coming to your memoir as the best or most trained writer in the world, but rather as someone with a story that matters. Much inspiration here this week! Prabal Gurang is a famous fashion designer who is also a memoirist. His new book, Write Like a Girl, tells the story of his childhood in Singapore and Nepal, education in India, and career in the U.S. fashion industry, where he was subjected to racial discrimination. A reviewer for Kirkus called the memoir “an insightful and entertaining look into the life of a famous fashion designer.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

While Dave was at Alaska Comics Camp, he had the opportunity to talk with Ryan North Gillian Goerz!Ryan North is the creator and author of Dinosaur Comics, and has written for the comic series of Adventure Time and Marvel Comics' The Unbeatable Squirrel Girl and Fantastic Four. His works have won multiple Eisner Awards and Harvey Awards and made New York Times Bestseller lists.Gillian Goerz (pronounced like “Jillian Gertz”) works in illustration, graphic recording, cartooning, writing and brush lettering. Her middle grade graphic novel Shirley & Jamila Save Their Summer spent 7 weeks on the Canadian Best Seller list, received stars from Kirkus and Publishers Weekly and was warmly reviewed by the New York Times Review of Books. Her follow-up book Shirley & Jamila's Big Fall (Dial, 2021) won the Doug Wright Award for excellence in children's comics. You get great rewards when you join the ComicLab Community on Patreon$2 — Early access to episodes$5 — Submit a question for possible use on the show AND get the exclusive ProTips podcast. Plus $2-tier rewards.If you'd like a one-on-one consultation about your comic, book it now!Brad Guigar is the creator of Evil Inc and the author of The Webcomics Handbook. Dave Kellett is the creator of Sheldon and Drive.

Send us a textAuthor and Advocate Ted Neill joins the show to share his powerful journey from working at a home for orphans in Nairobi, Kenya, and then in human services, to becoming a full-time author of nearly 30 books! We explore his middle-grade book series that celebrates disabilities through young superheroes, as well as his advocacy work amplifying the voices of children he once cared for, who are now grown. Ted's BioGlobetrotter and writer Ted Neill has worked on five continents as an educator, health professional, and journalist. His writing has appeared in The Washington Post, Recovery Today, and he has published a number of novels exploring issues related to science, religion, class, and social justice. He is the 2013 winner of the Martin Luther King Jr. Torch of Peace Award. His 2017 novel, The Selah Branch, attempts to confront issues of racism and the divided political environment of the US today and the 1950s. His debut novel, City on a Hill, examines the fault lines of religious conflict in the Middle East. His 2019 novel, Reaper Moon, takes place against the backdrop of a global virus pandemic and explores how the aftermath unfolds along familiar social divides of race and politics. His young adult series, Snog Team Six, is a romp through global mythology, science fiction, video games, the Old West and Southeast Asia. His high-fantasy series, Elk Riders, has won numerous awards including two Kirkus starred reviews. His upcoming series, The Post Apocalyptic Space Shakespeare, will provide an updated and exciting entrée to seventeen of the bard's plays for old and new readers alike.He is also an accomplished author of nonfiction. He is the author of two memoirs about his time working at a home for orphans with HIV/AIDS in Nairobi, Kenya.Neill's passion project is his illustrated middle grade series Mystery Force. Mystery Force is a collaboration with friends in the disability community to create a series where children with disabilities are the protagonists and heroes. Mystery Force came about when Neill's friend who uses a motorized wheelchair and has a canine companion approached him and said, “There needs to me more stories where kids with disabilities can see themselves as heroic.” So, they made one.Connect with TedWebsite Check out Ted's books on his website under the "books" tab!Follow Ted on Facebook, Threads, and Instagram @therealauthortedneillTikTokStay in the loop with the new Different Ability® product I'll be launching!Sign Up Here!Shop new products here!Places you can reach me at:Website:https://kateyfortun.com/https://kateyfortun.com/podcastInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/kateyfortun/https://www.instagram.com/differentabilitypodcast/

We are so excited and honored to have Autumn Krause join us on the podcast! Autumn is a Kirkus-star winning Young Adult author, homeschool alumna, and Orthodox homeschool mom. Her books, A Dress for the Wicked and Before the Devil Knows You're Here, were published by mainstream companies, with the latter garnering many accolades. Her third book will be published September 2nd, 2025. Autumn shares how she confronts the hardships of life in her books and recounts how homeschooling impacts her work as an author. Books mentioned: A Dress for the Wicked by Autumn Krause Before the Devil Knows You're Here by Autumn Krause Grave Flowers by Autumn Krause Hamlet by William Shakespeare Les Miserables by Victor Hugo Brothers Karamazov by Fyodr Dostoevsky Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien Trumpet of the Swan by E.B. White Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery Little Women by Louisa May Alcott

We are so excited and honored to have Autumn Krause join us on the podcast! Autumn is a Kirkus-star winning Young Adult author, homeschool alumna, and Orthodox homeschool mom. Her books, A Dress for the Wicked and Before the Devil Knows You're Here, were published by mainstream companies, with the latter garnering many accolades. Her third book will be published September 2nd, 2025. Autumn shares how she confronts the hardships of life in her books and recounts how homeschooling impacts her work as an author. Books mentioned: A Dress for the Wicked by Autumn Krause Before the Devil Knows You're Here by Autumn Krause Grave Flowers by Autumn Krause Hamlet by William Shakespeare Les Miserables by Victor Hugo Brothers Karamazov by Fyodr Dostoevsky Jane Eyre by Charlotte Bronte The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien Trumpet of the Swan by E.B. White Anne of Green Gables by L.M. Montgomery Little Women by Louisa May Alcott

On our Best July Books episode, Kirkus' editors share their top titles for the month. Then essayist and critic Maris Kreizman joins us to discuss I Want To Burn This Place Down (Ecco, July 1). Kirkus calls Kreizman's latest “an intelligent and entertaining read” featuring “unexpectedly charming personal essays about disillusionment, diabetes, and despair.”See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The title fits, but not necessarily for the reasons you imagine. Barbara Leigh grew up in Wisconsin where she attended college and had a successful career. She tells us about her life and discusses getting married, having two children and over time watching her life choices basically and totally destroy her self esteem.   Barbara tells us how she, while growing up, was constantly described as a “smart girl”. She helped many figure out answers and learned along the way how to observe and research to learn whatever she needed to know. In 1995 when the internet was just coming into our sphere of experience, Barbara learned about it and created web pages and websites for the nonprofit for which she worked. Even with all the technical knowledge she amassed it took many years before she realized that even with all her smarts she was becoming a person who was being reshaped by a partner with his own low esteem and who constantly blamed her for everything that went wrong.   Eventually Barbara realized that something was wrong and began to look in ernest at her life and behavior. She realized that she had to make choices and regain her own self confidence and constructive view of herself. She changed her life and outlook and began growing again emotionally. Barbara tells us about her journey and even includes lessons she learned and wants to pass on to others.   In 2024 Barbara wrote and published her book, “Why Smart Girls Get Into Bad Relationships and How Not To Do It Again”. She is quick to point out that the book is not just for women. It is for anyone who may be facing a “bad relationship”. Barbara shares nine conclusions and thoughts from the book that illustrate why her writings can be so important for so many.   This episode is full of many great life lessons and observations. I do hope you not only enjoy it, but that you also gain some positive life choice ideas from it.     About the Guest:   Barbara Leigh grew up on a small dairy farm in Wisconsin and was considered in school to be a smart girl. She was not the type to get in trouble or make bad decisions. She was involved in lots of activities and did well in school.   She went off to Ripon College where she majored in Speech Communication and worked in the library. After graduation, she got a job in a library at a nonprofit. While working toward a Masters in Library and Information Science at UW-Milwaukee in 1995, she was taking an online searching class and was recruited to build a web site for her employer, being one of only a few employees that had even heard of the World Wide Web.   From there, Barbara built a career as a web developer and eventually moved to online learning and LMS integrations. In each career step she moved toward content, but eventually was directed back to the technical.   In the midst of all that, Barbara got married and had two children. She entered and contributed to bad relationships in her marriage, career and family until one day she decided to just stop. She has spent the last twenty years figuring out what it means to stop, how to continue living, and how to do it better. In 2024, she published a book, Why Smart Girls Get Into Bad Relationships and How Not To Do It Again, and in 2025, she took early retirement to get fully into content and do more writing. She currently writes the Helpfulmess blog which posts weekly. Ways to connect with Barbara:   Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/barbaraleighauthor/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/barbaraleighauthor Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/barbaraleighauthor.bsky.social Website: https://www.barbaraleighauthor.com     About the Host:   Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening!   Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast   If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can subscribe in your favorite podcast app. You can also support our podcast through our tip jar https://tips.pinecast.com/jar/unstoppable-mindset .   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review   Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.       Transcription Notes:   Michael Hingson ** 00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson ** 01:20 Well, hello, everyone, wherever you happen to be today, around the world or in space, whatever the case happens to be, we're all in space anyway, so I guess that counts for something. But I'm really glad that you are here, and we're really going to have, I think, an interesting conversation today, because we, we have a person who has written an interesting book, at least. I think it's an interesting book. The title of the book is, why do smart girls get into bad relationships, and how to and how not to do it again. I think that's an interesting title. Smart Girls, I gotta say, though, Barbara, who is our guest, Barbara Leigh, I don't know. I think they're more than smart girls that get into bad relationships or just do dumb things. I don't know. Why is it that most people do dumb things, but that's a different story, and probably not what we're really going to cover today. But anyway, I want to welcome you to unstoppable mindset, and we're glad you're   Barbara Leigh ** 02:19 here. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate   Michael Hingson ** 02:23 it. Yeah, well, it is probably true. Why do, why do so many people get into challenges? Ah, but we cope with what we have to right? Yes, we do. Well. Well, I'm glad you're here. Thanks for for being here and being on unstoppable mindset. Really looking forward to having a chance to really chat. Why don't we start? If we can by you telling us a little bit about kind of the early Barbara growing up and all that. Alright, well, I grew up. How's that for a great way to start.   Barbara Leigh ** 02:52 That's a great, great way to start. I grew up on a small dairy farm in Wisconsin. I had two brothers and a sister, mom and dad and, you know, cats and a dog and cows. I lived in a small community. Everybody knew each other. Nothing really exciting about my childhood. I was in 4h and I was in lots of activities in school. I did great in school, and I was wildly shy as a small child, but I managed to get comfortable enough with that by being a 4h officer and being in in leadership positions in the activities that I was in. I went to off to college in Ripon, and I been busy working on being me ever since,   Michael Hingson ** 03:56 well, so you, you, you don't sound like you're very shy today,   Barbara Leigh ** 04:06 like I said, I tried to get past that. I'm still wildly introverted, but I'm at least, you know, able to speak in public. That's a   Michael Hingson ** 04:15 start. Well, that's a good you know, I'm I've always been amazed, and I hear it so often that the top fear today is public speaking. And I've never really, I know it's me, but I've never understood why it is, because I've always been somewhat used to doing it, but I think that people approach public speaking oftentimes with kind of the wrong idea, because I find that if people fear it, what they're really saying is they're afraid of the audience and what the audience might do. But I find that audiences generally don't tend to really want to view a speaker as being bad. They want speaker. To succeed. So it's always been a puzzlement to be as to why people are afraid of public speaking.   Barbara Leigh ** 05:07 Yeah, that is true. I was a Speech Communication major in college, and had to take public speaking as a course, and we had a guy in there that was just shook. His whole body. Shook it when he started out, and he by the end of the course, he was the best speaker there. I think he just needed to practice doing it and find out it's not so bad.   Michael Hingson ** 05:34 Well, what did he do? What do you have any notion of what what really eliminated his fear?   Barbara Leigh ** 05:41 I think he just got better each time. I think it really was just just getting up in front of people and finding out, yeah, they aren't gonna do anything. They're trying to do the same thing as me. They're trying to learn public speaking, and they're fine.   Michael Hingson ** 05:56 That's cool. Well, I know when I was a program director at our campus radio station at UC Irvine, I wanted everyone to listen to their their own shows. So we we wanted them to record the shows which they wouldn't do. So the engineer and I arranged for that to get done, and we made people listen to their shows, take the cassettes home and listen to them. And as I think about it, I think that probably more often than not, some of these people were in radio because they didn't have to stand up in front of an audience, and they didn't think about being in front of an audience and speaking so much. And so they did what they did, but when they were compelled, if you will, to listen to themselves, they got better. And they got better because they then heard what everybody else is hearing, and they taught themselves that they could really do better than than they thought they were doing, and that they thought that they could do. And I think that really makes a lot of difference. And some of those people actually ended up going into broadcasting as a as a career,   Barbara Leigh ** 07:01 that's great. Yeah, it really is. It's just a matter of getting used to your own voice. I mean, some people just really got annoyed, I guess is the word at their own voice, and they were like, I don't sound like that. Well, you don't sound like yourself inside your head. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 07:27 yeah. I know that when I hear myself talk, I do know that I sound different than I think I sound. And so again, that's part of what I work on. When I listen to recorded speeches, and I listen to what I say and how I say it, because I know what audiences like when they hear a speaker, so it gives me something to work toward. And that's a good thing. Yeah. So it is kind of fun. So you went off to school, you were in high school and all that and and did what? What people do in high school, I assume,   Barbara Leigh ** 08:07 yep, lots of groups. I was in library club and let's see Spanish club and music, musical and choir and various things. Yeah, normal stuff, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 08:23 yeah. I did some of that. I was in the science club, and there was a math club. Wasn't in too many clubs, but I was in those two and and had a lot of fun with that. So it's, it's a good thing. And then, of course, as many of us do, then you went on to college. Where did you go to college? Ripping College. I've never heard of that college,   Barbara Leigh ** 08:49 very small liberal arts college,   Michael Hingson ** 08:52 which is all the better I am. I'm a fan of smaller colleges. I read in the book David and Goliath, the guy who invented the tipping point, wrote this book, and he talks about the fact that if more people would go to small colleges, they would discover that they could actually be kind of a larger fish in a small pond, rather than being a fish that isn't necessarily as large a fish in a very large pond. So the value of people going to to places that are smaller adds a lot of value, and you do get a lot more attention. And that's why, one of the reasons I think I went to UC Irvine, we had 2200 excuse me, 2700 students when I went there. Now there are 32,000 freshmen. My gosh, I can't believe how large it is. No, it's University California, Irvine UCI, which they always say lovingly, really, truly means under construction indefinitely. They're always building new things on the college. So.   Barbara Leigh ** 10:01 Yeah, ripen is, is under 1000 students total. And   Michael Hingson ** 10:07 what did you major in? I knew all my professors. It   10:09 was great. And   Michael Hingson ** 10:10 that's, that's cool. And I did as well. I and I got to know some of them very well. Actually, a couple, one of them even came to my wedding when my wife and I got married. Some, seven or eight, well, eight years after I graduated, or, well, six years after I graduated, but he, we invited him, and he came to the wedding. So that was kind of cool. What did you major in   Barbara Leigh ** 10:33 speech communication with a religion minor? All right.   Michael Hingson ** 10:37 Wow, that's an interesting combination. Why? Why a religion minor with with that religion   Barbara Leigh ** 10:43 has always intrigued me. I guess it's I am interested in people, and religion has such a strong effect on people, and so I really just wanted to learn more about various religions and and how they work.   Michael Hingson ** 11:01 So what do you what do you think about religion and our world today, and how much of an effect it it has?   Barbara Leigh ** 11:11 It's probably very big question. Yes, yes, I have that's like, one of the ideas for one of my next books is to dig into that I'm I have several ideas of things I want to cover, and that's one of them. But, yeah, it just it floors me that there can be so much variation in people who seem to believe the same things.   Michael Hingson ** 11:44 Yeah, yeah. It is. It is fascinating. I I've said ever since escaping from the World Trade Center on September 11, that what happened, no matter what those terrorists say, was not a reflection on the whole world of Islam and the Muslim faith, those were thugs who decided that they wanted to try to make the world bend to their will, if you will, and and they they did a pretty good job for a little while, but it wasn't a religious war, because I think most Muslims are not that way. That's true, and we shouldn't demonize that religion as such, especially since we could always go back and talk about the crusades in, you know what, 1066, and so on. And if we want to talk about Christianity and what it did, yeah, the reality is, everybody tries to do things in the name of religion, and it just doesn't make sense at all. It doesn't. But people try to justify anyway, which is, which is truly unfortunate. Well, so what did you do after you got a degree?   Barbara Leigh ** 12:47 Oh, let's see. I went off to Well, I got married. There you go, after graduation, and moved to the town where my my husband was living, and we I started working at K Mart, and from there, I went to outlet mall. I was the retail store manager, and then I got my job at a nonprofit, and I've been at that nonprofit for 34 years, until I retired, just not too long ago.   Michael Hingson ** 13:24 Wow. What's the nonprofit? Or can you say   Barbara Leigh ** 13:28 it's the international foundation of employee benefit plans? Okay,   Michael Hingson ** 13:33 well, that sounds pretty useful. You were there a long time, huh? I was wow.   Barbara Leigh ** 13:39 I moved around to multiple departments, but I was able to keep growing later, so I stayed   Michael Hingson ** 13:46 so you you were there 34 years. Wow, that is a long time. What? What did you What did you learn about life being there for so long? Wow, I was out for a general question, yeah.   Barbara Leigh ** 14:06 Well, I learned, boy, so many things I have. The foundation is an Educational Association. So I learned the actual benefits. Part of it, I have a Certified Employee Benefit Specialist designation, but also I learned a lot about people and work environments and and getting along with people, and I learned a lot about technology when I started at the foundation the the World Wide Web was not public yet, and while I was there, I was going to graduate school at UW Milwaukee. I. For library and information science. And while I was doing that, I was taking a an online searching course. And my boss, well, I worked in the library, so my boss asked me if I would create a website for the foundation, because nobody else in the building really had even heard of the World Wide Web yet. Yeah. So I learned all about web development and programming and all of that, just because I happened to be the only one that   Michael Hingson ** 15:40 knew, and using tools like Netscape, remember Netscape? Oh, yes, absolutely,   Barbara Leigh ** 15:50 yeah, wow. So yeah, I learned a lot of that, and then from from the library, I went to it, and was in a web developer for many years, and then from it, I went to educational programs where I was working with our learning management system and the integration with with our association management system. So I was, I was doing integrations, basically and but the things that I learned in technology careers that have helped me thus far have been I was doing a lot of troubleshooting. So I would, you know, a lot of times, you know, if you're in technology, no garbage in, garbage out. So when I get to a problem, I say, you know, there's this, there's garbage coming out, or there's nothing coming out at all. And I work back word through the process to get to the source data. And learning that you finding the source data and making sure that the source data is correct is really important. So I learned about a lot about working my way through systems to find that and also making sure that the systems work. So that has helped me a lot in in my life, because when I got into the situation where I needed to write this book about I managed to work my way back to the source of of the problem. And so the the source of the problem was my beliefs about me, about relationships, about other people. And so it was really helpful for me to have that process already in place in my brain, that I could just work my way back to that and Okay, now I can start from better data.   Michael Hingson ** 18:13 Yeah, do you think that working a lot in technology and perhaps some of the other areas where you worked. Do you think that that taught you more about how to observe and look at things and better be able to analyze them and and remembering them? I just find that so often people don't observe things. And I think learning to observe is extremely important to do   Barbara Leigh ** 18:45 absolutely yes, yes, when that's that's like all of my career was observing and and like you said, analyzing, being able to put what I've observed into what I want to happen, or what I would I need to communicate with other people. I think a lot of my career was, was connecting the right people to the right either technology or the or the other people, or just get making those connections.   Michael Hingson ** 19:30 But you had to learn how to observe people and draw conclusions and get that information to make that happen.   Barbara Leigh ** 19:38 Oh yes. And, you know, it's a process, just in growing up and watching people in general. Like I said, you know, religion was, was my thing, because people fascinate me. So I I've always been a people watcher, not like, go sit at the mall and watch people, but, I mean, yeah. I just really try to understand where people are coming from. And I think once I was in a technology career, it was even more important, because a lot of times in those careers people don't expect the technology person to be able to do that, and for me, that was the most important part with understanding the people, understanding what they wanted, what they were actually saying was not exactly what they wanted, and to try to get it get to what they wanted, and then to work with the system to be able to get what they wanted to come out correctly.   Michael Hingson ** 20:53 How did you discover that? How did you discover that people weren't necessarily saying what they really wanted, or that somehow it wasn't being articulated on it. And I understand that's a really tricky sort of thing. I know in asking myself that I just kind of respond by saying, it's just something you gain from a lot of experience, but you have to think about it. But you know, what do you think   Barbara Leigh ** 21:21 exactly? It's trial and error. You keep having people ask you for one thing and then expecting something else, until you figure out that you know what that's really not what they want, and to get them to verbalize, okay, what is it you want coming out of this? Is it? It's tricky.   Michael Hingson ** 21:47 Yeah, yeah, it is and, and it is something where you got to be pretty careful about how you do it and, and to whom you you focus your attentions to make that happen. Or if you've got some people who are difficult to deal with, and again, I guess that that helps you stretch and grow and you learn how to even deal with those people a little bit better, so that they're comfortable in interacting with you.   Barbara Leigh ** 22:14 Yeah, absolutely. But a big part of my job is making people feel comfortable enough to talk to me and, you know, and a lot of times when I would get a project, I would go to the person that that's using, whatever it is, and ask them, okay, you know, where are you getting this data? What do you want it to look like? And, you know, and ask them deeper questions. And, and these are often the people who are, you know, low man on the totem pole, and don't ever get asked, but those are the people that I needed to get to to find out what you know, where things were coming from, to actually give them what was going to work for them.   Michael Hingson ** 23:10 And that's interesting. You're saying, like, the low person on the totem pole doesn't get asked, and they're the ones that would love to be asked to be able to offer their opinions, so that that opens up whole new opportunities when you convey that you're you're willing to listen, and of course, that also then deals with the whole issue of trust. Because if they tell you something and say, Well, I want this incompetence, and you have to keep it that way. Yes, absolutely, trust is, is such a fleeting thing today, even though it's all around us, everywhere we go And everywhere we look. I mean, we trust that the roofs on our houses aren't going to collapse while we're doing this interview, this well, this conversation, and we trust that the internet is going to continue to work. It might, we'll see. But, but we trust in so many ways, but yet, unfortunately, we also confront, or are confronted by situations that try to teach us not to trust and to be close to trust, which is too bad. Yeah, one of the things that, that, that I talk about, actually, in my latest book, live like a guide dog, is trust. I talk about the fact that, in general, the difference between a dog and a person is while dogs love unconditionally, and I think that's true, although they can be taught not to, obviously, but while dogs love unconditionally, they don't trust unconditionally. But the difference between a dog and a person is that dogs are much more open to trust because we have just learned, or we've drawn the conclusion that we can't trust people, and so we lose that skill of being open to trust and trust. Truly learning how to determine whether we can trust any individual or not, rather than just saying we're not going to trust   Barbara Leigh ** 25:07 Right, absolutely, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 25:10 which is, you know, which is so unfortunate? Well, I'm sure you've, you've encountered that a lot.   Barbara Leigh ** 25:17 I have, indeed, and you know that's that was part of my process, was learning how to trust again. And that's a slow, slow, hard process.   Michael Hingson ** 25:31 What, what caused you to start to learn not to trust? What? What happened in your life?   Barbara Leigh ** 25:38 Okay? Well, I want to talk about it, but, well, I won't go into too deep a detail, but yeah, I I was in a relationship where, you know, I was with a very a person has low self esteem, and because of that, I would get told that things were my fault, or things were if I hadn't done this, or if anything That happened really was was somehow brought back to me and as a person with higher self esteem, I took that as my personal responsibility, rather than looking at it as no, that's really Your choice, not, not something that I could cause, and that just kept eroding away at my confidence, and it ended up with me having no self esteem whatsoever. Wow. And then we, you know, I hit a point where an event happened, and I, you know, my brain went, nope, I don't deserve that. And that's where the light switch flipped, and I was to, you know, then I started looking around and going, you know what? I didn't deserve that, either or that, and that was not about me. And so then I started to measure against that, and go, Okay, I can set up boundaries now, because this is behavior that I won't accept anymore. And I was able to start making boundaries, and I was able to start standing up for myself. And, you know, as as that process went on, I was able to, I guess, it was motivate myself just by connecting, reconnecting with that higher self esteem person that I had been earlier. And so I would, you know, it honestly took a very long time, because I was at nothing, and at that point, I made a conscious effort to be gentle with myself and to be patient with myself and to accept myself and so with those being kind to myself thoughts, that's how I was able to move forward. And like I said, moving forward started motivating me, and I was able to bring myself back up to a higher self confidence.   Michael Hingson ** 29:02 Did you get? Oh, go ahead. Oh,   Barbara Leigh ** 29:04 but yeah. The the trust being gone was a trust for not just the person I was in a relationship with, but for so many things around me because I didn't trust myself. I didn't trust what I was believing about myself.   Michael Hingson ** 29:28 Did you hate yourself?   Barbara Leigh ** 29:31 I would not say that. I would say I just didn't understand myself. I would like I said, when I got to the bottom, I was able to say, I don't deserve that, so I wouldn't say hated myself. Yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 29:48 that's why I asked the question, because that was my impression of what from what you were saying. It wasn't a hate or a dislike, it was a recognition of what should be and what. And then how to deal with it?   Barbara Leigh ** 30:02 Yep, I was, you know, because I got there and, you know, the light switch went on, and I was like, how did I get here? How did this even happen? You know, it just, I couldn't understand.   Michael Hingson ** 30:18 But as you, as you progressed and as you learned about yourself, and that, of course, was part of it, is that you were learning about yourself and bringing yourself back the person you had a relationship with you weren't able to to, I gather, make positive steps to get them to to be a lot better than they were.   Barbara Leigh ** 30:43 That was not my focus. My focus was no boundaries, so that they couldn't hurt me anymore,   Michael Hingson ** 30:52 right, right? It wasn't a matter of you're trying to heal them, but setting boundaries and it would have it would have been nice if they had recognized what was going on. But that was the difference, is that you recognized and they did not right.   Barbara Leigh ** 31:06 And honestly, once I got to a place where I was back to being who I felt like me, he was able to look at that and take some motivation from that, and he actually went and got help through therapy as well. So it actually turned out way better than than expected, but   Michael Hingson ** 31:41 yeah, so are you guys still married? Yes, we are. Well, there you go. Okay, and that was what I was curious about. So he he did. It wasn't you can't, you can't fix everything because people have to fix themselves. But he was able to recognize that which was, which is so cool,   Barbara Leigh ** 32:02 yeah, honestly, I moved out twice. So, I mean, like I said, I set boundaries, yeah, but we made it work. I mean, like, like I said, when I first made the change I did. I was not strong enough to move to be on my own. I just wasn't. And so, you know, I just tried to be as patient with myself as possible, and and I just kept, kept those boundaries and okay, you can't talk to me like that. That's just not going to work. And as I moved forward, he kind of came along with me   Michael Hingson ** 32:47 well, and it sounds like you're both the better for it today.   Barbara Leigh ** 32:54 Oh, absolutely, yes, we've come a long way. I wouldn't say we're perfect for sure, but   Michael Hingson ** 33:01 it's a it's a process. Yes, it is. So what does he do for work or for a living?   Barbara Leigh ** 33:08 He is a sales person for a home improvement company.   Michael Hingson ** 33:11 Ah, ah, Home Improvement. Tim, the tool man, Taylor, but that's another story. Oh, gosh. Well, that's pretty cool. And does he do well at selling?   Barbara Leigh ** 33:25 Yes, he does that. He had his own business for for many years, and so it just comes pretty naturally to him.   Michael Hingson ** 33:34 Well, at the same time, if you're going to be good at sales, you have to learn to observe and and not take things too personally sometimes as well. I learned a lot about sales when I was confronted by needing to go into sales or finding another job, and then I took a Dale Carnegie sales course, and one of my favorite observations about sales is that the best salespeople are really counselors. They're teachers. They guide you in and help you make the right decision, rather than just trying to force something on you, which doesn't mean that they're not trying to make $1 and sell products, but you can also find that your product might not be what somebody wants, and if you push them into buying it, that's going to cost to cost you in the end anyway,   Barbara Leigh ** 34:24 right? And that's why he makes a good salesman, because he was he, he did the work for for 15 years, and at at his own company, and then he went, moved to sales, and just because his body was wearing out, and for because he knows how the product works, how it goes on the house or whatever, he can explain that to the customer, and that makes it so much easier for them to understand, you know, why they need what they need, and how it works.   Michael Hingson ** 34:59 Yeah. Yeah, and I have found that the better sales people really do understand how the product works, and they take the time to keep up with things, because that's going to make them better at what they do. Yes. So now you have children. How many children?   Barbara Leigh ** 35:16 Two, girl and a boy, and how old are they? 29 and 25   Michael Hingson ** 35:23 oh, they're just kids.   35:24 They're just kids   Michael Hingson ** 35:28 and and I know if they've gone into sales just checking no okay,   Barbara Leigh ** 35:36 and have no interest in doing that, what do they do? My daughter works in customer service, and my son is Air National Guard   Michael Hingson ** 35:47 member. Oh, okay, so it's hopefully it sounds like both of them have some really decent self esteem. Yes, they they learned that along the way from the two of you, which is good, which is a positive thing, which is, which is pretty cool, yeah. So you have retired from being with a nonprofit. You said you were there for 34 years, and what caused you to retire   Barbara Leigh ** 36:17 writing this book, I was, I'm looking at writing more and, you know, doing marketing and doing all the things book has been a lot to do and work full time, yeah, so I decided to give, give it my all.   Michael Hingson ** 36:35 Did you self publish or does the publisher publish it? Okay, yeah, which makes even more of a marketing responsibility for you. Although I think publishers are pushing more for most authors to do more to market their own books, rather than the publishers helping as much as perhaps they could. But nevertheless, well, tell us about the book. Then tell us, if you would tell us about that.   Barbara Leigh ** 37:01 Oh, it's why smart girls get into bad relationships, and how not to do it again. I started out with, well, basically the book is for people who want better relationships, not just women, but I. I started out with a smart girl title, because that is something I identify with. I think of it as an identity, because a lot of books on relationships are books written from the perspective of therapists or the perspective of people who have been abused or some kind of trauma or have addictions or something like that, and that's not, that's not who I am. And so I was trying to give a voice to, you know, average people have these problems too. So the smart girl identity is more about, really, like in high school, people would you know, who didn't know me? Well, what time I yearbook? You're so smart. Or people at work, thank you for fixing that. You're so smart, right? And I believed that. And what I believed was that reasonable humans make reasonable choices, and that's not always true, and so when I wrote the book here, or actually when I when I hit the bottom and I started looking back, I was like, I don't know how I got here. So how did I get here? I went through the process. I figured out that my beliefs weren't quite right, and they sounded good, but when I actually put them to action. They really didn't work. So the book is my process of of getting from bottom of the barrel self esteem back up to high self esteem, and looking at those beliefs and rewriting them.   Michael Hingson ** 39:23 So, um, how so like some of your beliefs that that didn't work. For example,   Barbara Leigh ** 39:28 I will read you a few of them if you don't mind. Okay, so, so you get the idea of where, where this goes. So Belief number there's nine of them. Belief number one, I can trust myself became, I can trust myself when I am being honest with myself, because I was lying to myself quite a bit of the time. It turns out, number two, I am a good helpful person became, I am a good helpful person, but that is not where I find my. Value, and that kind of blew me out of the water when I figured that one out. Number three, I'm smart, but I can't appear smarter than my partner. And that's where the focus on women comes in. It's kind of looks at the social oppression of women and how that affects your beliefs. You know, if you believe that stuff so, number three, became, I am smart and I don't have to hide it. Number four, I must guard my relationship, not only from outside, but from inside to became, I must guard my own boundaries to maintain my mental health and stay true to me. Number five, it is important to keep things steady and stable became keeping things steady and stable doesn't allow me to grow. Fear blocks my growth. Embracing the uncomfortable for a time helps me become better. That one was a hard one to learn how bad number six, self care is indulgent and not a priority. Became, self care is a high priority if I don't care take care of me, I can't be good at caring for anyone else. Numbers seven, I have emotional muscle, and I can muscle through anything became I have emotional muscle and I can use it to pull out of negative thoughts. I don't need to deny my emotions or wallow in them. Just recognize them, feel them, and continue to move all the way through them, and this one kind of hits home for my daughter. My daughter was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at the age of 20 months, and she used her emotional muscle to muscle through her pain, because she didn't want to see the reaction of people feeling sorry for her, and so she had a lot of of using that emotional muscle to just not show people her pain and and that has been something that we've had to work on for a long time.   Michael Hingson ** 42:33 What did she discover? What did she finally do?   Barbara Leigh ** 42:37 Well, it's been a process, but she's finally actually showing her pain. She because, like she's had a cyst that burst in it. It wrapped around some things, and she couldn't tell the doctor in charge that that she was having that much pain. She she didn't make it a 10 on the pain scale. So the doctor didn't think that she was that, that these complications had happened, because most people couldn't even walk with this pain, but she could, because she's super high pain tolerance. Yeah, and, you know, she learned that she doesn't need to hide her pain, which was, which was pretty life shaking for her, and she's learned that, you know, she can actually tell her doctors, yes, I'm, I'm actually having some pain, and I I really need to have you work on this or or give me medication for this, or whatever. But, yeah, she's she's really come a long way as far as being honest with herself and with other people. Yeah, let's see. Number eight, I can rely on my smartness to figure it out became I can rely on my smartness and problem solving ability. But life isn't always logical. Sometimes I'm starting starting from a faulty belief I don't have to be perfect. It's okay to ask for help when I don't understand and get stuck. And that one it, it seems very obvious, but that one was really ingrained and kept coming up in different ways. Number nine, partial is enough, I can and should fill in. The rest became I am a whole person with my own thoughts, emotions, talents, hopes, dreams and goals. So if I want to be in a relationship, my significant other should see me as a whole person and should be a whole person themselves.   Michael Hingson ** 45:10 Wow, some pretty deep concepts, needless to say, Yeah, but by the same but by the same token, you were willing to step back and observe and think about yourself, so you were able to to create these conclusions and make these changes, which is what it's really all about?   Barbara Leigh ** 45:36 Yeah, I think that's what's different about my book, is that it's not written by a therapist or somebody who's at the other side. It's somebody who's actually in it, um, digging through it and and feeling it and it makes the, you know, it. I pulled apart the process and was, you know, you have to hit all of the things that the you know, the mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, social, all, all of the things to hold those beliefs out of all of the different places in your life where they stuck.   Michael Hingson ** 46:23 You think that people really have to, how do I say this? Go to the bottom or hit rock bottom before they can really start to learn?   Barbara Leigh ** 46:33 I hope not.   Michael Hingson ** 46:38 You did and I but I hear it a lot you really don't know until you hit rock bottom. And I'm not sure I totally buy that. It really depends on what you're able to learn and what you're able what conclusions you're able to draw. But a lot of times hitting rock bottom, if you will, maybe emotionally at least, brings people to where they need to be. But I am with you. I hope that it isn't always that way, and it doesn't need to always be that way,   Barbara Leigh ** 47:06 right? I think there's, there's different rock bottoms, you know? It's I got to the point where I needed to learn, and I learned, and that may not be what you and I would view as rock bottom to someone else, you know, but it's, you know, I finally, I finally flip the switch. And that's, you know, somebody else may have a switch at a different level than   Michael Hingson ** 47:40 or they may not see that there's a switch to flip which is, which is all about choice, yep. So what got you started down the road of writing the book?   Barbara Leigh ** 47:54 To be honest, I never thought I would write a book that was never, you know, a big goal in life for me, and I think it's totally a God thing, because I was, you know, my my daughter's been telling me, you need to write a book. You need to write a book for, you know, years. And I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, no product. And then all of a sudden it was time to write the book. And I was like, I don't know why it's time to write the book, but it's time to write the book. And honestly, it it flowed. I mean, I had all these great ideas for a book, and they went poof out the window when I wanted to start writing. I I just kind of sketched out an outline that was terrible, and showed it to a few people, and they're like, sure, you go. And I threw it away and just started writing. And once I started writing, it, it flowed. It actually just came out. And once I was in it a little, you know, a few chapters in, then I was able to organize it and figure out what I wanted to say and make an outline. But I couldn't do any of that until I just started writing. So I don't know, it was odd. And then I gave it to my son. I gave, like, the first two, two chapters, probably, to my son, and he read it, and he pushed it back over the table at me, and said big words. And I was like, okay, so I took it and I took out all the big words, and I made it more conversational. And now everybody who who has read it and and talk to me is like, you know, it just feels like a conversation with a good friend over a cup of   Michael Hingson ** 49:57 coffee. There you go for   Barbara Leigh ** 49:59 a glass of. Wine. So that's where it   Michael Hingson ** 50:03 got, yeah, it's, it's about not preaching, but presenting and teaching in a in a non confrontive way, which is what it's really about, which is what sales is about, Yeah, but that was very observant on his part to say that, yeah,   Barbara Leigh ** 50:24 you made it so much better.   Michael Hingson ** 50:28 When I wrote thunder dog, my first book I was I wrote it with someone. We collaborated. I had worked on it for a long time, or at least worked on ideas. And then Susie Flory called one day and she wanted, she was writing her own book, and she said, Tell me your story. And after I did, she said, You should write your own book, and I'll help you do it. And she did, one of the things that we had was that the book is about being in the World Trade Center, but it's also a lot about my life. And when we got it to the editor, because her agent, who became my agent, Chip McGregor, was able to sell it to Thomas Nelson publishing, which is now part of HarperCollins. But the editor said, My problem with this book is the transitions. And kind of said, well, what do you mean? He said, Well, you talk at the beginning of each chapter about an event on September 11, and then you you go back in your life, but you don't transition between the two. And then when you come back, you don't transition. And I get lost. And when he described that, it just immediately clicked what he was saying. And I actually then spent a weekend putting transitions in every chapter at the right places. And when he read that, he said, this is perfect. This is exactly what I was talking about. And when one of the major reviewers of the book, Kirkus, which reviews books for publishers and libraries and so on, when they reviewed it, they said one of the most powerful parts about it were the transitions. And so I appreciate what your son said, because sometimes the unexpected thing that someone says is what sends you down a road to make it a much better thought process and a much better book or a much better whatever than it would have been otherwise.   Barbara Leigh ** 52:22 Yeah, absolutely. I had a friend from college read it from an author perspective. So she's, she's written five books, and she gave me just, you know, really, she wrote fiction books so they weren't the same, but she gave me just really good authoring advice. As far as you know, you were used this word too many times, you know, things like that. And that was really, really helpful too to just, oh, okay, I get it. That would make it much more smooth. And you know, that was really helpful for me too, and it's just just to get feedback in any capacity is so helpful, I think,   Michael Hingson ** 53:12 well, and all of those comments that people give you help teach you how to write better. Yeah, absolutely. How has writing the book changed your perspective?   Barbara Leigh ** 53:24 Wow. Well, first thing, I had no idea about writing books or publishing or marketing or any of that, so that's been a whole big learning curve. But as far as you know, even even writing through the book helped teach me some things about the process as well. Just as far as relationships go, and talking through it with I had about a dozen people reading it at chapter by chapter as I got them done and and having getting that feedback from them, as far as you know, how it how it affected them, and it was really just so, I guess, helpful for me to learn what other people were were thinking when they're reading it. Because, you know, some of the things had never occurred to me, some of the things were for from friends who had been through some kind of childhood trauma. And I was kind of looking at, okay, I get what you're saying, and I think this that what you're telling me is you. This part is coming from your childhood trauma, but this other part is definitely something that I could add to my book, and I didn't want to make my book about trauma, because it really in my mind, was for the person that was just an average person, living an average life, having average relationship. However, my friends who have had childhood trauma have actually been the most affected by my book, which I find fascinating.   Michael Hingson ** 55:42 That's that's interesting, but it does make sense, because clearly you're trying to help people be more open about themselves, to themselves. And the people that that do that are the people that have been in situations where maybe they haven't, and they maybe intellectually realize that they need to grow and change, but they hadn't totally emotionally adopted that stance, and so you help them with that, which is cool.   Barbara Leigh ** 56:11 Yep, that's something I was expecting for sure.   Michael Hingson ** 56:15 No, understand. Now you have a blog also right, called helpfulness. Why is why is it called helpfulness? And what is it about?   Barbara Leigh ** 56:24 It is called helpful mess because when I was writing this book, I was writing about helpfulness and how that kind of steered me in the wrong direction, because that's where I was finding my value, and I had a typo that made it helpful. Mess, mess. Yeah, I said related to that mess. Yeah, it's like, that messy part. That's me. I So related to that that I ground onto that word. I was like, Okay, this word is mine,   Michael Hingson ** 56:56 well, and it really goes right along with the book and everything we've talked about today. Needless to say, Have you thought about doing things like starting a coaching program? Or do you do any of that?   Barbara Leigh ** 57:12 I do not. My daughter is, she is a life coach, and she has started a holistic nutrition program. So she's kind of doing that, that thing and, and I've never really been interested in doing that kind of thing. So I like you go. I will help you.   Michael Hingson ** 57:33 Okay, well, that's fair. I think we, we all do what we we feel we're best at, and it may come to the time where you'll suddenly discover that you're really better at it than you think, and that you could, you could coach people, or maybe not, but that's really something to look at.   Barbara Leigh ** 57:55 Yeah, I do want to focus on my writing for a while, but you know, when she's done with her program, maybe we'll get something   Michael Hingson ** 58:01 together. Well, there you go, and she lives close to you. Yeah,   Barbara Leigh ** 58:08 she's a half hour early, all right, so   Michael Hingson ** 58:10 Wisconsin home to everywhere, which is pretty cool. Well, so what would you advise? What kind of advice would you give to someone who's going through a lot of the things that you've gone through and so on? What would be the first thing that you would say to them to hopefully get them started down a different path of of life, rather than thinking so little of themselves and not really wanting to move forward,   Barbara Leigh ** 58:39 I would tell them they have options. You can leave your your value is not in how helpful you are, and be gentle and be kind to yourself and accept that you may not be coming from a belief that is true. And look, you know, try to see when you feel something that right, kind of off. Kind of look at your beliefs and you know, where is this coming from? Because a lot of times you can find it if you look hard enough, yeah,   Michael Hingson ** 59:31 it's about teaching people to truly develop the skill of self analysis, if you will. Yeah, which is something that we, we all ought to do more of we, we tend not to really look at ourselves. And it goes back to the same thing as the whole concept of the fear of public speaking, if we, if we step out of ourselves and look at what happened, we beat up on ourselves rather than recognize. Amazing. This is a teaching moment, and we can learn from it, rather than allowing it to just be something that beats us   Barbara Leigh ** 1:00:07 up. Yes, absolutely,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:10 which makes a lot of sense. Well, I want to thank you for doing this. We've been we've been at this about an hour. Can you believe it? But I really enjoyed having you talk about it. Do you have any kind of last minute thoughts that you want to convey to people?   Barbara Leigh ** 1:00:30 Well, let's see. I guess if you think reasonable humans make reasonable choices, maybe rethink that. If you want to find my book, you can find it at my website. Let's see   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:48 and what's your website?   Barbara Leigh ** 1:00:51 Barbara Lee, author.com and Lee is l, e, i, G, H,   Michael Hingson ** 1:00:56 so it's Barbara Lee, author.com, yeah, cool. Well, I hope people will find it, and we'll, we'll read it. Is it's available? Is it a hard copy or ebook, or both, or both? Okay,   Barbara Leigh ** 1:01:16 and available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble Ingram, Apple, Google, not all the places   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:24 they're they're an audible version or an audio version,   Barbara Leigh ** 1:01:27 not yet something to work on asking, yeah, absolutely. I know I have two people that have been asking, and I well, I have to start making money before I can spend money on that.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:43 Yeah, I hear you well, unless you read it yourself, which cuts the cost way down.   Barbara Leigh ** 1:01:49 Yeah, try that. I have no idea how to do that either, so that, you know, has added to my my pile of things I need to learn.   Michael Hingson ** 1:01:56 There you go. It's an adventure.   Barbara Leigh ** 1:01:57 Yes, absolutely, it's on the list. Well,   Michael Hingson ** 1:02:00 Barbara, thank you for being here. I really appreciate it, and I want to thank all of you for listening. I hope that this has been not only enjoyable, but educational and worth your time. Love to hear your thoughts. Love to get your your thoughts about this. So any of you who would we'd love to hear from you, please email me at Michael H, i@accessibe.com that's m, I, C, H, A, E, L, H, I at accessibe, A, C, C, E, S, S, i, b, e.com, wherever you're listening, please give us a five star review. We really appreciate those reviews, and especially we love five star reviews. We want positive reviews, but you give us your honest thoughts. We love that. We appreciate it, and we value your comments very highly. If you know anyone who you think ought to be a guest on unstoppable mindset, please let us know. And if, by the way, you aren't sure how to review or whatever, or you want to find another place to hear more podcasts in addition to wherever you're listening to it, today, you can go to Michael hingson.com/podcast that's m, I C, H, A, E, L, H, I N, G, s, o n.com/podcast, and all of our episodes are there, but we really value your time. We value that you like what we're doing. We'll always love to hear from people, so please let us know and keep the emails coming and again. Barbara, I just want to thank you. We really appreciate your time and are so glad that you came and spent this time with us.   Barbara Leigh ** 1:03:32 Thank you, Michael, it's been great. I appreciate   Michael Hingson ** 1:03:40 You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com . AccessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for Listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Bridgett M. Davis is the author of the 2019 memoir, The World According to Fannie Davis, which was a New York Times editor's choice, and a BuzzFeed, Parade and Kirkus best book of 2019. She is also the writer/director of the award-winning film Naked Acts, rediscovered and re-released in 2024 to critical acclaim. Her essays have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post and the Los Angeles Times, among other publications. The author of two novels, she just published a new memoir, Love, Rita An American Story of Sisterhood, Joy, Loss and Legacy, just out from Harper Collins. The QWERTY podcast is brought to you by the book The Memoir Project: A Thoroughly Non-Standardized Text for Writing & Life. Read it, and begin your own journey to writing what you know. To learn more, join The Memoir Project free newsletter list and keep up to date on all our free webinars and instructive posts and online classes in how to write memoir, as well as our talented, available memoir editors and memoir coaches, podcast guests and more.

Prepare to be swept away by the untold saga of women's soccer! Girls With Goals isn't just a book; it's a thrilling journey through time, tracing the electrifying rise of the beautiful game from its surprising 19th-century British roots to the global phenomenon it is today. Imagine a world where women dared to dream of kicking a ball, facing down bans, battling societal challenges, and overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds. Girls With Goals brings these gripping tales to life, chronicling the astonishing victories that have propelled women's football onto the world stage. You'll witness the sheer determination that transformed a grassroots passion into a sport celebrated by millions! Whether you're lacing up your first pair of cleats or you're a seasoned fan who bleeds soccer, this book will revolutionize your understanding of women's football. Through captivating stories and unforgettable anecdotes, you'll meet the trailblazing characters—both past and present—who shaped the sport, including the voices of marginalized athletes whose contributions have often been overlooked. More than just a history, Girls With Goals is a passionate tribute to the female athletes who ignited a spark in girls worldwide, inspiring them to chase their dreams on the pitch. It's a powerful homage to the women who fought tirelessly to play the sport they loved, forging a path not just for women's soccer, but for every female athlete in every sport today. About the Visionary Behind the Story: Clelia Castro-Malaspina, the brilliant mind behind Girls With Goals, is a celebrated author of books for young readers. Her previous work, Your Freedom, Your Power: A Kid's Guide to the First Amendment, was lauded by Kirkus as "current, insightful and savvy," and earned a starred review from Booklist, which declared it "empowers kids." With a background spanning law and literary agency, Clelia now leads her own children's book editorial business, Mossy Pines Creative. She lives with her husband and two daughters on Mercer Island, Washington, undoubtedly continuing to champion powerful stories that inspire. Get The Book: https://a.co/d/6pAkMlo Get to Know Ash: Imagine someone who just radiates good vibes and genuinely wants to see you shine – that's Ash Brown! This incredibly talented American wears many hats: she's a fantastic producer, a super engaging blogger, a captivating speaker, a natural media personality, and a fantastic host for events. Her energy is totally infectious, and you can tell she's truly passionate about helping everyone reach their full potential. What's Ash Up To? AshSaidit.com: Think of this as your VIP pass into Ash's world! Her blog is buzzing with exclusive invites to events, honest reviews of cool products, and all sorts of fun and informative stuff. It's the perfect place to stay in the loop and get a dose of Ash's personality. The Ash Said It Show: Get ready to feel inspired! Ash's podcast is a powerhouse of motivation, with over 2,000 episodes already out there and a whopping half a million listens worldwide! She has amazing conversations with inspiring people and dives into topics that really matter. Why We Love Ash: Ash isn't just talking the talk; she's walking the walk! What makes her truly special is how real she is. She connects with her audience on a genuine level, offering advice and encouragement that feels like a chat with a good friend. She doesn't shy away from the tough stuff but instead gives you the tools to tackle it head-on. Here's what makes Ash stand out: Sunshine Personified: Ash is a total optimist! Her positive energy is contagious, and you can't help but feel more empowered and ready for anything after connecting with her. Keeping It Real: Ash doesn't try to sugarcoat life. She gets that things can be tough and offers relatable advice that speaks to people from all walks of life. Turning Inspiration into Action: This isn't just about feeling good for a moment. Ash gives you practical tips and strategies to actually make things happen and turn your dreams into reality. So, if you're looking for a daily dose of inspiration, real-world advice, and someone who keeps it totally honest, Ash Brown is your go-to person! With her amazing positivity and genuine dedication to helping others, she's sure to become your favorite source for making the most out of life. ✨ ► Goli Gummy Discounts Link: https://go.goli.com/1loveash5 ► Luxury Women Handbag Discounts: https://www.theofficialathena.... ► Review Us: https://itunes.apple.com/us/po... ► Subscribe: http://www.youtube.com/c/AshSa... ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/1lov... ► Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ashsa... ► Blog: http://www.ashsaidit.com/blog #atlanta #ashsaidit #theashsaiditshow #ashblogsit #ashsaidit®Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-ash-said-it-show--1213325/support.

Send us a textDavid Downie is a native San Franciscan who moved to Paris in the mid-1980s. He divides his time between France and Italy. A longtime journalist, his travel, food and arts features have appeared in over 50 print magazines and newspapers worldwide and on dozens of websites.David is the award-winning author of six novels and over a dozen acclaimed nonfiction books translated into a variety of foreign languages, including French, Italian, Chinese and Korean. His essays have been published in over a dozen anthologies. Downie graduated from UC Berkeley and Brown University. He is married to photographer Alison Harris. His latest book is Shadows of Rome: A Memoir.Praise for other books by David Downie"Zesty and entertaining."—Kirkus"Delightful and thoroughly researched."—Publishers Weekly"Beautifully written and refreshingly original."—The SF Chronicle"Delightful and insightful."—The Seattle Post-Intelligencer and Chicago Tribune"Unequaled poignancy and passion."—National Geographic Traveler“Expertly captures the powerlessness and courage of those in peril."—Booklist"Compelling... a rapturous, history-rich love poem."—The Toronto Star"Fabulous company!"—NPRShadows of Romehttps://www.amazon.com/Shadows-Rome-Memoir-Italy-California/dp/B0DWK5FF27/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0 Support the show

Tom McAllister joins Let's Talk Memoir for a conversation about finding the right container for our work trusting our writing to speak for itself, giving ourselves homework, writing constraints as guiding principles, his approach to teaching nonfiction, the challenge of self-promotion, strategies for creating companion pieces, stating things boldly and with confidence, the podcast Book Fight he co-hosts, and how he wrote a short essay for every year of his life and turned it into his new book It All Felt Impossible.:42 Years in 42 Essays. Also in this episode: -trusting the reader -when the well feels dry -handling rejection   Books mentioned in this episode: The Largess of the Sea Maiden by Denis Johnson My Documents by Alejandro Zambra A Childhood: The Biography of a Place by Harry Cruz The Copenhagen Trilogy by Tove Ditlevsen   Tom McAllister is the author of the novel How to Be Safe, which was named one of the best books of 2018 by Kirkus and The Washington Post. His other books are the novel The Young Widower's Handbook and the memoir Bury Me in My Jersey. His short stories and essays have been published in The Sun, Best American Nonrequired Reading, Black Warrior Review, and many other places. He is the nonfiction editor at Barrelhouse and co-hosts the Book Fight! podcast with Mike Ingram. He lives in New Jersey and teaches in the MFA Program at Rutgers-Camden.   Tom's article in The Writer's Chronicle: https://writerschronicle.awpwriter.org/TWC/2025-february/preview/04_From-Anecdote-to-Essay-preview.aspx Connect with Tom: tom.mcallister.ws https://www.instagram.com/realpizzatom/ https://bsky.app/profile/tmcallister.bsky.social https://www.facebook.com/tom.mcallister.12   – Ronit's writing has appeared in The Atlantic, The Rumpus, The New York Times, Poets & Writers, The Iowa Review, Hippocampus, The Washington Post, Writer's Digest, American Literary Review, and elsewhere. Her memoir WHEN SHE COMES BACK about the loss of her mother to the guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh and their eventual reconciliation was named Finalist in the 2021 Housatonic Awards Awards, the 2021 Indie Excellence Awards, and was a 2021 Book Riot Best True Crime Book. Her short story collection HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE won Hidden River Arts' 2020 Eludia Award and the 2023 Page Turner Awards for Short Stories.  She earned an MFA in Nonfiction Writing at Pacific University, is Creative Nonfiction Editor at The Citron Review, and teaches memoir through the University of Washington's Online Continuum Program and also independently. She launched Let's Talk Memoir in 2022, lives in Seattle with her family of people and dogs, and is at work on her next book. More about Ronit: https://ronitplank.com Subscribe to Ronit's Substack: https://substack.com/@ronitplank Follow Ronit: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ https://www.facebook.com/RonitPlank https://bsky.app/profile/ronitplank.bsky.social   Background photo credit: Photo by Patrick Tomasso on Unsplash Headshot photo credit: Sarah Anne Photography Theme music: Isaac Joel, Dead Moll's Fingers

Betsy Bird is the Collection Development Manager of Evanston Public Library and the former Youth Materials Specialist of New York Public Library. She writes for the School Library Journal blog A Fuse #8 Production and reviews for Kirkus. She is the host of the Story Seeds podcast as well as the co-host of the Fuse 8 n' Kate podcast that she creates with her sister. Betsy is the author of picture books, anthologies, and the middle grade novel Long Road to the Circus, illustrated by David Small. In this, our second interview we celebrate her new picture book Pop! Goes the Nursery Rhyme, illustrated by Andrea Tsurumi (Union Square Kids, March, 2025). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network