Podcast appearances and mentions of Carl Hart

Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman join our podcast to discuss how psychedelic policy is actually moving in Washington, DC. Lavasani leads Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, a DC-based advocacy organization focused on educating federal officials and advancing legislation around psychedelic medicine. Kopelman is CEO of Mission Within Foundation, which provides scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking psychedelic-assisted therapy retreats, often outside the United States. The conversation centers on veterans, the VA, and why that system may be the first realistic federal pathway for psychedelic care. Early Themes Lavasani describes PMC's work on Capitol Hill, including hosting events that bring lawmakers, staffers, and advocates into the same room. Her focus is steady engagement. In DC, progress often happens through repeated conversations, not headlines. Kopelman shares his background as a Marine and how his own psychedelic-assisted therapy experience led him to Mission Within. The foundation has funded more than 250 scholarships for veterans and first responders seeking treatment for PTSD, mild traumatic brain injury, depression, and addiction. They connect this work to pending veteran-focused legislation and explain why the VA matters. As a closed health system, the VA can pilot programs, gather data, and refine protocols without the pressures of private healthcare markets. Core Insights A recent Capitol Hill gathering, For Veteran Society, brought together members of Congress and leaders from the psychedelic caucus. Lavasani describes candid feedback from lawmakers. The message was clear: coordinate messaging, avoid fragmentation, and move while bipartisan interest remains. Veteran healthcare is not framed as the final goal. It is a starting point. If psychedelic therapies can demonstrate safety and effectiveness within the VA, broader adoption becomes more plausible. Kopelman raises operational realities that must be addressed: Standardized safety protocols across providers Integration support, not medication alone Clear training pathways for clinicians Real-world data beyond tightly screened clinical trials They also address recent negative headlines involving ibogaine treatment abroad. Kopelman emphasizes the need for shared learning across providers, especially when adverse events occur. Lavasani argues that inconsistency within the ecosystem can slow federal confidence. Later Discussion and Takeaways The discussion widens to federal momentum around addiction and mental health. Lavasani notes that new funding initiatives signal growing openness to innovative treatment models, even if psychedelics are not named explicitly in every announcement. Both guests stress that policy moves slowly by design. Meetings, follow-ups, and relationship building often matter more than public statements. For clinicians, researchers, operators, and advocates, the takeaways are direct: Veterans are likely the first federal pathway Public education remains essential Safety standards must be shared and transparent Integration and workforce development need attention now If psychedelic medicine enters federal systems, infrastructure will determine success. Frequently Asked Questions What do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman say about VA psychedelic policy? They argue that veteran-focused legislation offers a realistic first federal pathway for psychedelic-assisted care. Is ibogaine currently available through the VA? No. They discuss ibogaine in the context of private retreats and future possibilities, not an existing VA program. Why do Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman emphasize coordination? Lawmakers respond more positively when advocates present aligned messaging and clear priorities. What safety issues are discussed by Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman? They highlight the need for standardized screening, monitoring, integration support, and transparent review of adverse events. Closing Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman provide a grounded look at how psychedelic policy develops inside federal systems. Their message is practical: veterans may be the first lane, but long-term success depends on coordination, safety standards, and sustained engagement. Closing This episode captures a real-time view of how federal policy could shape the next phase of the psychedelic resurgence, especially through veteran-facing legislation and VA infrastructure. Melissa Lavasani & Jay Kopelman argue that coordination, public education, and shared safety standards will shape whether access expands with credibility and care. Transcript Joe Moore: [00:00:00] Hello everybody. Welcome back to Psychedelics Today. Today we have two guests, um, got Melissa Sani from Psychedelic Medicine Coalition. We got Jake Pelman from Mission Within Foundation. We're gonna talk about I bga I became policy on a recent, uh, set of meetings in Washington, DC and, uh, all sorts of other things I'm sure. Joe Moore: But thank you both for joining me. Melissa Lavasani: Thanks for having us. Jay Kopelman: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Thanks. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, Melissa, I wanna have you, uh, jump in. First. Can you tell us a little bit about, uh, your work and what you do at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, so Psychedelic Medicine Coalition is, um, the only DC based Washington DC based advocacy organization dedicated to the advancing the issue of psychedelics, um, and making sure the federal government has the education they need, um, and understands the issue inside out so that they can generate good policy around, around psychedelic medicines. Melissa Lavasani: [00:01:00] Uh, we. Host Hill events. We host other convenings. Our big event every year is the Federal Summit on psychedelic medicine. Um, that's going to be May 14th this year. Um, where we talk about kinda the pressing issues that need to be talked about, uh, with government officials in the room, um, so that we can incrementally move this forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our presence here in Washington DC is, is really critical for this issue's success because, um, when we're talking about psychedelic medicines, um, from the federal government pers perspective, you know, they are, they are the ones that are going to initiate the policies that create a healthcare system that can properly facilitate these medicines and make sure, um, patient safety is a priority. Melissa Lavasani: And there's guardrails on this. And, um, you know, there, it's, it's really important that we have. A home base for this issue in Washington DC just [00:02:00] because, uh, this is very complicated as a lot of your viewers probably understand, and, you know, this can get lost in the mix of all the other issues that, um, lawmakers in DC are focused on right now. Melissa Lavasani: And we need to keep that consistent presence here so that this continues to be a priority for members of Congress. Joe Moore: Mm. I love this. And Jay, can you tell us a bit about yourself and mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, sure. Joe, thanks. Uh, I, I am the CEO of Mission within Foundation. Prior to this, most of my adult life was spent in the military as a Marine. Jay Kopelman: And I came to this. Role after having, uh, a psychedelic assisted therapy experience myself at the mission within down in Mexico, which is where pretty much we all go. Um, we are here to help [00:03:00] provide, uh, access for veterans and first responders to be able to attend psychedelic assisted therapy retreats to treat issues like mild TBI, post-traumatic stress disorder, uh, depression, sometimes addiction at, at a very low level. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and so we've, we've been doing this for a little more than a year now and have provided 250 plus scholarships to veterans and first responders to be able to access. These retreats and these, these lifesaving medicines. Um, we're also partnered, uh, you may or may not know with Melissa at Psychedelic Medicine Coalition to help advance education and policy, specifically the innovative, uh, therapy Centers of Excellence Act [00:04:00] that Melissa has worked for a number of years on now to bring to both Houses of Congress. Joe Moore: Thank you for that. Um, so let's chat a little bit about what this event was that just, uh, went down, uh, what, what was it two weeks ago at this point? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Yeah. It's called For Veteran Society and it's all, um, there's a lot of dialogue on Capitol Hill about veterans healthcare and psychedelics, but where I've been frustrated is that, you know, it was just a lot of. Melissa Lavasani: Talk about what the problems are and not a lot of talk about like how we actually propel things forward. Um, so it, at that event, I thought it was really important and we had three members of Congress there, um, Morgan Latrell, who has been a champion from day one and his time in Congress, um, having gone through the experience himself, um, [00:05:00] at Mission within, um, and then the two chairs of the psychedelic caucus, uh, Lou Correa and Jack Bergman. Melissa Lavasani: And we really got down to the nitty gritty of like w like why this has taken so long and you know, what is actually happening right now? What are the possibilities and what the roadblocks are. And it was, I thought it was a great conversation. Um, we had an interesting kind of dynamic with Latres is like a very passionate about this issue in particular. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I think it was, I think it was really. A great event. And, you know, two days later, Jack Bergman introduced his new bill for the va. Um, so it was kind of like the precursor to that bill getting introduced. And we're just excited for more and more conversations about how the government can gently guide this issue to success. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. [00:06:00] That's fantastic. Um, yeah, I was a little bummed I couldn't make it, but next time, I hope. But I've heard a lot of good things and, um, it's, it sounded like there was some really important messages in, in terms of like feedback from legislators. Yeah. Yeah. Could you speak to that? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, I think when, uh, representative Latrell was speaking, he really impressed on us a couple things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, first is that, you know, they really kind of need the advocates to. Coordinate, collaborate and come up with like a, a strategic plan, you know, without public education. Um, talking to members of Congress about this issue is, is really difficult. You know, like PMC is just one organization. We're very little mission within, very little, um, you know, we're all like, kind of new in navigating, um, this not so new issue, but new to Washington DC [00:07:00] issue. Melissa Lavasani: Um, without that public education as a baseline, uh, it's, it's, you have to spend a lot of time educating members of Congress. You know, that's like one of our things is, you know, we have to, we don't wanna tell Congress what direction to go to. We wanna provide them the information so they understand it very intimately and know how to navigate through things. Melissa Lavasani: Um, and secondly. Um, he got pretty frank with us and said, you know, we've got one cha one chance at this issue. And it's like, that's, that's kind of been like my talking point since I started. PMC is like, you have a very limited window, um, when these kind of issues pop up and they're new and they're fresh and you have a lot of the veteran community coming out and talking about it. Melissa Lavasani: And there's a lot of energy there. But now is the time to really move forward, um, with some real legislation that can be impactful. Um, but, you know, we've gotta [00:08:00] be careful. We, we forget, I think sometimes those of us who are in the ecosystem forget that our level of knowledge about these medicines and a lot of us have firsthand experience, um, with these drugs and, and our own healing journeys is, um, we forget that there is a public out there that doesn't have the level of knowledge that we all have. Melissa Lavasani: And, um. We gotta make sure that we're sticking to the right elements of, of, of what needs to happen. We need to be sure that our talking points are on track and we're not getting sideways about anything and going down roads that we don't need to talk about. It's why, um, you know, PMC is very focused on, um, moving forward veteran legislation right now. Melissa Lavasani: Not because we're a veteran organization, but because we're, we see this long-term policy track here. Um, we know where we want to get [00:09:00] to, um. Um, and watching other healthcare issues kind of come up and then go through the VA healthcare system, I think it's a really unique opportunity, um, to utilize the VA as this closed system, the biggest healthcare system in the country to evaluate, uh, how psychedelics operate within systems like that. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, before they get into, um, other healthcare systems. What do we need to fix? What do we need to pay attention to? What's something that we're paying too much attention to that doesn't necessarily need that much attention? So it's, um, it's a real opportunity to look at psychedelic medicines within a healthcare system and obviously continue to gather the data. Melissa Lavasani: Um, Bergman's Bill emerging, uh, expanding veteran access to emerging treatments. Um, not only mandates the research, it gives the VA authority for this, uh, for running trials and, and creating programs around psychedelic medicines. But also, [00:10:00] one of the great things about it, I think, is it provides an on-ramp for veterans that don't necessarily qualify for clinical trials. Melissa Lavasani: You know, I think that's one of the biggest criticisms of clinical trials is like you're cre you're creating a vacuum for people and people don't live in a vacuum. So we don't necessarily know what psychedelics are gonna look like in real life. Um, but with this expanding veteran access bill that Bergman introduced, it provides the VA an opportunity to provide this access under. Melissa Lavasani: Um, in a, in a safe container with medical supervision while collecting data, um, while ensuring that the veteran that is going through this process has the support systems that it needs. So, um, you know, I think that there's a really unique opportunity here, and like Latrell said, like, we've got one shot at this. Melissa Lavasani: We have people's attention in Congress. Um, now's the time to start acting, and let's be really considerate and thoughtful about what we're doing with it. Joe Moore: Thanks for that, Melissa and Jay, how, [00:11:00] anything to add there on kind of your takeaways from the this, uh, last visit in dc? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I, I think that Melissa highlighted it really well and there, there were a couple other things that I, I think, you know, you could kind of tie it all together with some other issues that we face in this country, uh, and that. Jay Kopelman: Uh, representative Correa brought up as well, but one of the things I wanted to go back and say is that veterans have kind of led this movement already, right? So, so it's a, it's a good jumping off point, right? That it's something people from both sides of the aisle, from any community in America can get behind. Jay Kopelman: You know, if you think about it, uh, in World War ii, you know, we had a million people serving our population was like, not even 200 million, but now [00:12:00] we have a population of 330 million, and at any given time there might be a million people in uniform, including the Reserve and the National Guard. So it's, it, it's an easy thing to get behind this small part of the population that is willing to sign that contract. Jay Kopelman: Where you are saying, yeah, I'm going to defend my country, possibly at the risk of my l my own life. So that's the first thing. The other thing is that the VA being a closed health system, and they don't have shareholders to answer to, they can take some risks, they can be innovative and be forward thinking in the ways that some other healthcare systems can't. Jay Kopelman: And so they have a perfect opportunity to show that they truly care for their veterans, which don't, I'm not saying they don't, but this would be an [00:13:00] opportunity to show that carrot at a whole different level. Uh, it would allow them to innovate and be a leader in something as, uh, as our friend Jim Hancock will say, you know. Jay Kopelman: When he went to the Naval Academy, they had the world's best shipbuilding program. Why doesn't the VA have the world's best care program for things like TBI and PTSD, which affects, you know, 40 something percent of all veterans, right? So, so there's, there's an opportunity here for the VA to lead from the front. Jay Kopelman: Um, the, these medicines provide, you know, reasonably lasting care where it's kind of a one and done. Whereas with the current systems, the, you know, and, and [00:14:00] again, not to denigrate the VA in any way, they're doing the best job they can with the tools in their toolbox, right? But maybe it's time for a trip to Home Depot. Jay Kopelman: Let's get some new tools. And have some new ways of fixing what's broken, which is really the way of doing things. It's not, veterans aren't broken, we are who we are. Um, but it's a, it's a way to fix what isn't working. So I, I think that, you know, given there's tremendous veteran homelessness still, you know, addiction issues, all these things that do translate to the population at large are things that can be worked on in this one system, the va that can then be shown to have efficacy, have good data, have [00:15:00] good outcomes, and, and take it to the population at large. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Brilliant. Thanks for that. And so there was another thing I wanted to pivot to, which is some of the recent press. So we've, um, seen a little bit of press around some, um, in one instance, some bad behavior in Mexico that a FI put out Americans thrive again, put out. And then another case there was a, a recent fatality. Joe Moore: And I think, um, both are tragic. Like we shouldn't be having to deal with this at this point. Um, but there's a lot of things that got us here. Um, it's not necessarily the operator's fault entirely, um, or even at all, honestly, like some medical interventions just carry a lot of risk. Like think, think about like, uh, how risky bypass surgery was in the nineties, right? Joe Moore: Like people were dying a lot from medical interventions and um, you know, this is a major intervention, uh, ibogaine [00:16:00] and also a lot of promise. To help people quite a bit. Um, but as of right now, there's, there's risk. And part of that risk, in my opinion, comes from the inability of organizations to necessarily collaborate. Joe Moore: Like there's no kind of convening body, sitting in the middle, allowing, um, for, and facilitating really good data sharing and learnings. Um, and I don't, I don't necessarily see an organization stepping up and being the, um, the convener for that kind of work. I've heard rumors that something's gonna happen there, and I'm, I'm hopeful I'll always wanna share my opinion on that. Joe Moore: But yeah. I don't know. Jay, from your perspective, is there anything you want to kind of speak to about, uh, these two recent incidents that Americans for Iboga kind of publicized recently? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, so I, I'll echo your sentiment, of course, that these are tragic incidents. Um, and I, [00:17:00] I think that at least in the case of the death at Ambio, AMBIO has done a very good job of talking about it, right? Jay Kopelman: They've been very honest with the information that they have. And like you said, there are risks inherent to these medicines, and it's like anything else in medicine, there are going to be risks. You know, when I went through, uh, when I, when I went through chemo, you know, there were, there are risks. You know, you don't feel well, you get sick. Jay Kopelman: Um, and, and it. There are processes in place to counter that when it happens. And there are processes and, and procedures and safety protocols in place when caring for somebody going through an ibogaine [00:18:00] journey. Uh, when I did it, we had EKG echocardiogram. You're on a heart monitor the entire time they push magnesium via iv. Jay Kopelman: You have to provide a urinalysis sample to make sure that there is nothing in your system that is going to potentially harm you. During the ibogaine, they have, uh, a cardiologist who is monitoring the heart monitors throughout the ibogaine experience. So the, the safety protocols are there. I think it's, I think it's just a matter of. Jay Kopelman: Standardizing them across all, all providers, right? Like, that would be a good thing if people would talk to one another. Um, as, as in any system, right? You've gotta have [00:19:00] some collaboration. You've gotta have standardization, you know, so, you know, they're not called standard operating procedures for nothing. Jay Kopelman: That means that in a, you know, in a given environment, everybody does things the same way. It's true in Navy and Marine Corps, air Force, army Aviation, they have standard operating procedures for every single aircraft. So if you fly, let's say the F 35 now, right? Because it's flown by the Navy, the Marine Corps, and the Air Force. Jay Kopelman: The, the emergency procedures in that airplane are standardized across all three services, so you should have the same, or, you know, with within a couple of different words, the same procedures and processes [00:20:00] across all the providers, right? Like maybe in one document you're gonna change, happy to glad and small dog to puppy, but it's still pretty much the, the same thing. Jay Kopelman: And as a service that provides scholarships to people to go access these medicines and go to these retreats, you know, my criteria is that the, this provider has to be safe. Number one, safety's paramount. It's always gotta be very safe. It should, it has to be effective. And you know, once you have those two things in place, then I have a comfort level saying, okay, yeah, we'll work with this provider. Jay Kopelman: But until those standardized processes are in place, you'll probably see these one-off things. I mean, some providers have been doing this longer than others and have [00:21:00] really figured out, you know, they've, they've cracked the code and, you know, sharing that across the spectrum would be good. Um, but just when these things happen, having a clearing house, right, where everybody can come together and talk about it, you know, like once the facts are known because. Jay Kopelman: To my knowledge, we still don't know all the facts. Like as, you know, as horrible as this is, you still have to talk about like an, has an autopsy been performed? What was found in the patient's system? You know, there, there are things there that we don't know. So we need to, we need to know that before we can start saying, okay, well this is how we can fix that, because we just don't know. Jay Kopelman: And, you know, to their credit, you know, Amio has always been safe to, to the, to the best of my knowledge. You know, I, [00:22:00] I haven't been to Ambio myself, but people that I have worked with have been there. They have observed, they have seen the process. They believe it's safe, and I trust their opinion because they've seen it elsewhere as well. Jay Kopelman: So yeah, having, having that one place where we can all come together when this happens, it, it's almost like it should be mandatory. In the military when there's a training accident, we, you know, we would have to have what's called a safety standout. And you don't do that again for a little while until you figure out, okay, how are we going to mitigate that happening again? Jay Kopelman: Believe me, you can go overboard and we don't want to do that. Like, we don't wanna just stop all care, but maybe stop detox for a week and then come back to it. [00:23:00] Joe Moore: Yeah. A dream would be, let's get like the, I don't know, 10, 20 most popular, uh, or well-known operators together somewhere and just do like a three day debrief. Joe Moore: Hey, everybody, like, here's what we see. Let's work on this together. You know how normal medicine works. And this is, it's hard because this is not necessarily, um, something people feel safe about in America talking about 'cause it's illicit here. Um, I don't understand necessarily how the operations, uh, relate to each other in Mexico, but I think that's something to like the public should dig into. Joe Moore: Like, what, what is this? And I, I'll start digging into that. Um, I, I asked a question recently of somebody like, is there some sort of like back channel signal everybody's using and there's no clear Yes. You know? Um, I think it would be good. That's just a [00:24:00] start, you know, that's like, okay, we can actually kind of say hi and watch out for this to each other. Jay Kopelman: It's not like we don't all know one another, right? Joe Moore: Yes. Jay Kopelman: Like at least three operators we're represented. At the Aspen Ibogaine meeting. So like that could be, and I think there was a panel kind of loosely related to this during Aspen Ibogaine meeting, but Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: It, you know, have a breakout where the operators can go sit down and kind of compare notes. Joe Moore: Right. Yeah. Melissa, do you have any, uh, comments on this thread here? And I, I put you on mute if you didn't see that. Um, Melissa Lavasani: all right, I'm off mute. Um, yeah, I think that Jay's hits the nail on the head with the collaboration thing. Um, I think that it's just a [00:25:00] problem across the entire ecosystem, and I think that's just a product of us being relatively new and upcoming field. Melissa Lavasani: Um, uh, it's a product of, you know. Our fundraising community is really small, so organizations feel like they are competing for the same dollars, even though their, their goals are all the same, they have different functions. Um, I think with time, I mean, let's be honest, like if we don't start collaborating and, and the federal government's moving forward, the federal government's gonna coordinate for us. Melissa Lavasani: And not, that might not necessarily be a bad thing, but, you know, we understand this issue to a whole other level that the federal government doesn't, and they're not required to understand it deeply. They just need to know how to really move forward with it the proper way. Um, but I think that it. It's really essential [00:26:00] that we all have this come together moment here so we can avoid things. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, I mean, no one's gonna die from bad advocacy. So like I've, I have a bit of an easier job. Um, but it can a, a absolutely stall efforts, um, to move things forward in Washington DC when, um, one group is saying one thing, another group is saying another thing, like, we're not quite at a point yet where we can have multiple lines of conversation and multiple things moving forward. Melissa Lavasani: Um, you know, for PMC, it's like, just let's get the first thing across the finish line. And we think that is, um, veteran healthcare. And, um, I know there's plenty of other groups out there that, that want the same thing. So, you know, I always, the reason why I put on the Federal Summit last year was I kind of hit my breaking point with a lack of collaboration and I wanted to just bring everyone in the same room and say like, all right, here are the things that we need to talk about. Melissa Lavasani: And I think the goal for this year is, um. To bring people in the same room and say, we talked about [00:27:00] we scratched the surface last year and this is where we need to really put our efforts into. And this is where the opportunities are. Um, I think that is going to, that's going to show the federal government if we can organize ourselves, that they need to take this issue really seriously. Melissa Lavasani: Um, I don't think we've done a great job at that thus far, but I think there's still plenty of time for us to get it together. Um, and I'm hoping with these two, uh, VA bills that are in the house right now and Senate is, is putting together their version of these two bills, um, so that they can move in tandem with each other. Melissa Lavasani: I think that, you know, there's an opportunity here for. Us to show the federal government as an ecosystem, Hey, we, we are so much further ahead and you know, this is what we've organized and here's how we can help you, um, that would make them buy into this issue a bit more and potentially move things forward faster. Melissa Lavasani: Uh, at this point in time, it's, I think that, [00:28:00] you know, psychedelics aren't necessarily the taboo thing that they, they used to be, but there's certainly places that need attention. Um, there's certainly conversations that need to be had, and like I said, like PMC is just one organization that can do this. Um, we can certainly organize and drive forward collaboration, but I, like we alone, cannot cover all this ground and we need the subject matter experts to collaborate with us so we can, you know, once we get in the door, we wanna bring the experts in to talk to these officials about it. Melissa Lavasani: So I. I, I really want listeners to really think about us as a convener of sorts when it comes to federal policy. Um, and you know, I think when, like for example, in the early eighties, a lot of people have made comparisons to the issue of psychedelics to the issue of AIDS research and how you have in a subject matter that's like extremely taboo and a patient population that the government [00:29:00] quite honestly didn't really care about in the early eighties. Melissa Lavasani: But what they did as an ecosystem is really organized themselves, get very clear on what they wanted the federal government to do. And within a matter of a couple years, uh, AIDS research funding was a thing that was happening. And what that, what that did was that ripple effect turned that into basically finding new therapies for something that we thought was a death, death sentence before. Melissa Lavasani: So I think. We just need to look at things in the past that have been really successful, um, and, and try to take the lessons from all of these issues and, and move forward with psychedelics. Joe Moore: Love that. And yes, we always need to be figuring out efficient approaches and where it has been successful in the past is often, um, an opportunity to mimic and, and potentially improve on that. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Jay Kopelman: One, one thing I think it's important to add to this part of the conversation is that, [00:30:00] you know, Melissa pointed out there are a number of organizations that are essentially doing the same thing. Jay Kopelman: Um, you know, I like to think we do things a little bit differently at Mission within Foundation in that we don't target any one specific type of service member. We, we work with all veterans. We work with first responders, but. What that leads to is that there are, as far as I've seen, nothing but good intentioned people in this space. Jay Kopelman: You know, people who really care about their patient population, they care about healing, they are trying to do a good job, and more importantly, they're trying to do good. Right? It, it, I think they all see the benefit down the road that this has, [00:31:00] pardon me, not just for veterans, but for society as a whole. Jay Kopelman: And, and ultimately that's where I would like to see this go. You know, I, I would love to see the VA take this. Take up this mantle and, and run with it and provide great data, great outcomes. You know, we are doing some data collection ourselves at Mission within foundation, albeit anecdotal based on surveys given before and after retreats. Jay Kopelman: But we're also working with, uh, Greg Fonzo down at UT Austin on a brain study he's doing that will have 40 patients in it when it's all said and done. And I think we have two more guys to put through that. Uh, and then we'll hit the 40. So there, there's a lot of good here that's being done by some really, really good people who've been doing this for a long time [00:32:00] and want to want nothing more than to, to see this. Jay Kopelman: Come to, come full circle so that we can take care of many, many, many people. Um, you know, like I say, I, I wanna work myself out of a job here. I, I just, I would love to see this happen and then I, you know, I don't have to send guys to Mexico to do this. They can go to their local VA and get the care that they need. Jay Kopelman: Um, but one thing that I don't think we've touched on yet, or regarding that is that the VA isn't designed for that. So it's gonna be a pretty big lift to get the right types of providers into the va with the knowledge, right, with the institutional knowledge of how this should be done, what is safe, what is effective, um, and then it, it's not just providing these medicines to [00:33:00] people and sending them home. Jay Kopelman: You don't just do that, you've gotta have the right therapists on the backend who can provide the integration coaching to the folks who are receiving these medicines. And I'm not just talking, I bga, even with MDMA and psilocybin, you should have a proper period of integration. It helps you to understand how this is going to affect you, what it, what the experience really meant, you know, because it's very difficult sometimes to just interpret it on your own. Jay Kopelman: And so what the experience was and what it meant to you. And, and so it will take some time to spin all that up. But once it's, once it's in place, you know, the sky's the limit. I think. Joe Moore: Kinda curious Jay, about what's, what's going on with Ibogaine at the federal level. Is there anything at VA right now? [00:34:00] Jay Kopelman: At the va? No, not with ibogaine. And, you know, uh, we, we send people specifically for IBOGAINE and five MEO, right? And, and so that, that doesn't preclude my interest in seeing this legislation passed, right? Jay Kopelman: Because it, it will start with something like MDMA or psilocybin, but ultimately it could grow to iboga, right? It the think about the cost savings at, at the va, even with psilocybin, right? Where you could potentially treat somebody with a very inexpensive dose of psilocybin or, or iboga one time, and then you, you don't have to treat them again. Jay Kopelman: Now, if I were, uh, you know, a VA therapist who's not trained in psychedelic trauma therapy. I might be worried [00:35:00] about job security, but it's like with anything, right? Like ultimately it will open pathways for new people to get that training or the existing people to get that training and, and stay on and do that work. Jay Kopelman: Um, which only adds another arrow to their quiver as far as I'm concerned, because this is coming and we're gonna need the people. It's just like ai, right? Like ai, yeah. Some people are gonna lose some jobs initially, and that's unfortunate. But productivity ultimately across all industries will increase and new jobs will be created as a result of that. Jay Kopelman: I mean, I was watching Squawk Box one morning. They were talking about the AI revolution and how there's gonna be a need for 500,000 electricians to. Build these systems that are going to work with the AI [00:36:00] supercomputers and, and so, Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Where, where an opportunity may be lost. I think several more can be gained going forward. Melissa Lavasani: And just to add on what Jay just said there, there's nothing specific going on with Ibogaine at, at the va, but I think this administration is, is taking a real look at addiction in particular. Uh, they just launched, uh, a new initiative, uh, that's really centered on addiction treatments called the Great American Recovery. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, they're dedicating a hundred million dollars towards treating addiction as like a chronic treatable disease and not necessarily a law enforcement issue. So, um, in that initiative there will be federal grant programs for prevention and treatment and recovery. And, um, while this isn't just for psychedelic medicines, uh, I think it's a really great opportunity for the discussion of psychedelics to get elevated to the White House. Melissa Lavasani: Um, [00:37:00] there's also, previous to this announcement last week from the White House, there's been a hundred million dollars that was dedicated at, um, at ARPA h, which is. The advanced research projects, uh, agency for healthcare, um, and that is kind of an agency that's really focused on forward looking, um, treatments and technologies, uh, for, um, a, a whole slew of. Melissa Lavasani: Of issues, but this a hundred million dollars is dedicated to mental health and addiction. So there's a lot of opportunity there as well. So we, while I think, you know, some people are talking about, oh, we need a executive order on Iboga, it's like, well, you know, the, the president is thinking, um, about, you know, what issues can land with his, uh, voting block. Melissa Lavasani: And I think it's, I don't think we necessarily need a specific executive order on Iboga to call this a success. It's like, let's look at what, [00:38:00] um, what's just been announced from the White House. They're, they're all in on. Thinking creatively and finding, uh, new solutions for this. And this is kind of, this aligns with, um, HHS secretaries, uh, Robert F. Melissa Lavasani: Kennedy Junior's goals when he took on this, this role of Health Secretary. Um, addiction has been a discussion that, you know, he has personal, um, a personal tie to from his own experience. And, um, I think when this administration started, there was so much like fervor around the, the dialogue of like, everyone's talking about psychedelics. Melissa Lavasani: It was Secretary Kennedy, it was, uh, secretary Collins at the va. It was FDA Commissioner Marty Macari. And I think that there's like a lot of undue frustration within folks 'cause um, you don't necessarily snap your fingers and change happens in Washington dc This is not the city for that. And it's intentionally designed to move slow so that we can avoid really big mistakes. Melissa Lavasani: Um. [00:39:00] I think we're a year into this administration and these two announcements are, are pretty huge considering, um, you know, the, we, there are known people within domestic policy council that don't, aren't necessarily supportive of psychedelic medicine. So there's a really amazing progress here, and frustrating as it might be to, um, just be waiting for this administration to make some major move. Melissa Lavasani: I think they are making major moves like for Washington, DC These, these are major moves and we just gotta figure out how we can, um, take these initiatives and apply them to the issue of psychedelic medicines. Joe Moore: Thanks, Melissa. Um, yeah, it is, it is interesting like the amount of fervor there was at the beginning. You know, we had, uh. Kind of one of my old lawyers, Matt Zorn, jumped in with the administration. Right. And, um, you know, it was, uh, really cool to [00:40:00] see and hopeful how much energy was going on. It's been a little quiet, kind of feels like a black box a little bit, but I, you know, there was, Melissa Lavasani: that's on me. Melissa Lavasani: Maybe I, we need to be more out in public about like, what's actually happening, because I feel like, like day in and day out, it's just been, you gotta just mm-hmm. Like have that constant beat with the government. Mm-hmm. And, um, it's, it's, it's not the photo ops on the hill, it's the conversations that you have. Melissa Lavasani: It's the dinner parties you go to, it's the fundraisers you attend, you know? Mm-hmm. That's why I, I kind of have to like toot my own horn with PCs. Like, we need to be present here at, at not only on the Hill, not only at the White House, but kind of in the ecosystem of Washington DC itself. There's, it's, there are like power players here. Melissa Lavasani: There are people that are connected that can get things done, like. I mean, the other last week we had a big snow storm. I walked over to my friend's house, um, to have like a little fire sesh with them and our kids, and his next door neighbor came over. He was a member of Congress. I talked about the VA bills, like [00:41:00] we're reaching out to his office now, um, to get them, um, up to speed and hopefully get their co-sponsorship for, uh, the two VA bills. Melissa Lavasani: So, I mean, it, the little conversations you have here are just as important as the big ones with the photo ops. So, um, it, it's, it's really like, you know, building up that momentum and, and finding that time where you can really strike and make something happen. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jay, anything to add there? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, I, I, I think the fervor is still there, right? Jay Kopelman: But real life happens. Melissa Lavasani: Yes, Jay Kopelman: yes. And gets in the way, right? So, Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I, I can't imagine how many issues. Secretary Kennedy has every day much less the president. Like there's so many things that they are dealing with on a daily basis, right? It, we, we just have to work to be the squeaky wheel in, in the right way, right. Jay Kopelman: [00:42:00] With the, with the right information at the right time. Like just inundating one of these organizations with noise, it's then it be with Informa, it just becomes noise, right? It it, it doesn't help. So when we have things to say that are meaningful and impactful, we do, and Melissa does an amazing job of that. Jay Kopelman: But, you know, it, it takes time. You know, it's, you know, we're not, this is, this is like turning an aircraft carrier, not a ski boat. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Um, and. It's, it's understandably frustrating, I think for the public and the psychedelic public in particular because we see all this hope, you know, we continue to get frustrated at politics. It's nothing new, right? Um, and we, we wanna see more people get well immediately. [00:43:00] And I, I kind of, Jay from the veteran perspective, I do love the kind of loud voices like, you're making me go to Mexico for this. Joe Moore: I did that and you're making me leave the country for the thing that's gonna fix me. Like, no way. And barely a recognition that this is a valid treatment. You know, like, you know, that is complicated given how medicine is structured here domestically. But it's also, let's face the facts, like the drug war kind of prevented us from being able to do this research in the first place. Joe Moore: You know? Thanks Nixon. And like, how do we actually kind of correct course and say like, we need to spend appropriately on science here so we can heal our own people, including veterans and everybody really. It's a, it's a dire situation out there. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. It, it really is. Um, you know, we were talking briefly about addicts, right? Jay Kopelman: And you know, it's not sexy. People think of addicts as people who are weak-minded, [00:44:00] right? They don't have any self-control. Um, but, but look at, look at the opioid crisis, right? That Brian Hubbard was fighting against in Kentucky for all those years. That that was something that was given to the patient by a doctor that they then became dependent on, and a lot of people died from that. Jay Kopelman: And, and so you, you know, it's, I I don't think it's fair to just put all addicts in a box. Just like it's not fair to put all veterans in a box. Just like it's not fair for doctors, put all their patients in a box. We're individuals. We, we have individual needs. Our, our health is very individual. Like, I, I don't think I should be put in the same box as every other 66-year-old that my doctor sees. Jay Kopelman: It's not fair. [00:45:00] You know, if you, if you took my high school classmates and put us all in a photo, we're all gonna have different needs, right? Like, some look like they're 76, not 66. Some look like they're 56. Not like they're, we, we do things differently. We live our lives differently. And the same is true of addicts. Jay Kopelman: They come to addiction from different places. Not everybody decides they want to just try heroin at a party, and all of a sudden they're addicted. It happens in, in different ways, you know, and the whole fentanyl thing has been so daggum nefarious, right? You know, pushing fentanyl into marijuana. Jay Kopelman: Somebody's smoking a joint and all of a sudden they're addicted to fentanyl or they die. Melissa Lavasani: I think we're having a, Jay Kopelman: it's, it's just not fair to, to say everybody in this pot is the same, or everybody in this one is the same. We have [00:46:00] to look at it differently. Joe Moore: Yeah. I like to zoom one level out and kind of talk about, um, just how hurt we are as a country, as a world really, but as a country specifically, and how many people are out of work for so many. Joe Moore: Difficult reasons and away from their families for so many kind of tragic reasons. And if we can get people back to their families and back to work, a lot of these things start to self-correct, but we have to like have those interventions where we can heal folks and, and get them back. Um, yeah. And you know, everything from trauma, uh, in childhood, you know, adulthood, combat, whatever it is. Joe Moore: Like these things can put people on the sidelines. And Jay, to your point, like you get knee surgery and all of a sudden you're, you know, two years later you're on the hunt for Fentanyl daily. You know, that's tough. It's really tough. Carl Hart does a good job talking about this kind of addiction pipeline and [00:47:00] a few others do as well. Joe Moore: But it's just, you know, kind of putting it in a moral failure bucket. It's not great. I was chatting with somebody about, um, veterans, it's like you come back and you're like, what's gonna make me feel okay right now? And it's not always alcohol. Um, like this is the first thing that made me feel okay, because there's not great treatments and there's, there's a lot of improvements in this kind of like bringing people back from the field that needs to happen. Joe Moore: In my opinion. I, it seems to be shared by a lot of people, but yeah, there's, it's, it's, IGA is gonna be great. It's gonna be really important. I really can't wait for it to be at scale appropriately, but there's a lot of other things we need to fix too, um, so that we can just, you know, not have so many people we need to, you know, spend so much money healing. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Jay Kopelman: Yeah. You ahead with that. We don't need the president to sign an executive order to automatically legalize Ibogaine. Right. But it would be nice if he would reschedule it so that [00:48:00] then then researchers could do this research on a larger scale. You know, we could, we could now get some real data that would show the efficacy. Jay Kopelman: And it could be done in a safe environment, you know? And, and so that would be, do Joe Moore: you have any kind of figures, like, like, I've been talking about this for a while, Jay. Like, does it drop the cost a lot of doing research when we deschedule things? Jay Kopelman: I, I would imagine so, because it'll drop the cost of accessing the medicines that are being researched. Jay Kopelman: Right? You, you would have buy-in from more organizations. You know, you might even have a pharma company that comes into this, you know, look at j and j with the ketamine, right? They have, they have a nasal spray version of ketamine that's doing very well. I mean, it's probably their, their biggest revenue [00:49:00] provider for them right now. Jay Kopelman: And, and so. You know, you, it would certainly help and I think, I think it would lower costs of research to have something rescheduled rather than being schedule one. You know it, people are afraid to take chances when you're talking about Schedule one Melissa Lavasani: labs or they just don't have the money to research things that are on Schedule one. Melissa Lavasani: 'cause there's so much in an incredible amount of red tape that you have to go through and, and your facility has to be a certain way and how you contain those, uh, medicines. Oh, researching has to be in a specific container and it's just very cumbersome to research schedule one drugs. So absolutely the cost would go down. Melissa Lavasani: Um, but Joe Moore: yeah, absolutely. Less safes. Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. Joe Moore: Yes. Less uh, Melissa Lavasani: right. Joe Moore: Locked. Yeah. Um, it'll be really interesting when that happens. I'm gonna hold out faith. That we can see some [00:50:00] movement here. Um, because yeah, like why make healing more expensive than it needs to be? I think like that's potentially a protectionist move. Joe Moore: Like, I'm not, I'm not here yet, but, um, look at AbbVie's, uh, acquisition of the Gilgamesh ip. Mm-hmm. Like that's a really interesting move. I think it was $1.2 billion. Mm-hmm. So they're gonna wanna protect that investment. Um, and it's likely going to be an approved medication. Like, I don't, I don't see a world in which it's not an approved medication. Joe Moore: Um, you know, I don't know a timeline, I would say Jay Kopelman: yeah. Joe Moore: Less than six years, just given how much cash they've got. But who knows, like, I haven't followed it too closely. So, and that's an I bga derivative to be clear, everybody, um mm-hmm. If you're not, um, in, in the loop on that, which is hopeful, you know? Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. But I don't know what the efficacy is gonna be with that compared to Ibogaine and then we have to talk about the kind of proprietary molecule stuff. Um, there's like a whole bunch of things that are gonna go on here, and this is one of the reasons why I'm excited about. Federal involvement [00:51:00] because we might actually be able to have some sort of centralized manufacturer, um, or at least the VA could license three or four generic manufacturers per for instance, and that way prices aren't gonna be, you know, eight grand a dose or whatever. Joe Moore: You know, it's, Jay Kopelman: well, I think it's a very exciting time in the space. You know, I, I think that there's the opportunity for innovation. There is the opportunity for collaboration. There's the opportunity for, you know, long-term healing at a very low cost. You know, that we, we have the highest healthcare cost per capita in the world right here in the us. Jay Kopelman: And, and yet we are not the number one health system in the world. So to me, that doesn't add up. So we need to figure out a way to start. Bringing costs down for a lot of people and [00:52:00] at the same time increasing, increasing outcomes. Joe Moore: Absolutely. Yeah. There's a lot of possible outcome improvements here and, and you know, everything from relapse rates, like we hear often about people leaving a clinic and they go and overdose when they get home. Tragically, too common. I think there's everything from, you know, I'm Jay, I'm involved in an organization called the Psychedelics and Pain Association. Joe Moore: We look at chronic pain very seriously, and IGA is something we are really interested in. And if. We could have better, you know, research, there better outcome measures there. Um, you know, perhaps we can have less people on opioids to begin with from chronic pain conditions. Um, Jay Kopelman: yeah, I, I might be due for another Ibogaine journey then, because I deal with chronic pain from Jiujitsu, but, Joe Moore: oh gosh, let's Jay Kopelman: talk Joe Moore: later. Jay Kopelman: That's self inflicted. Some people would say take a month off, but Melissa Lavasani: yeah, Jay Kopelman: I'm [00:53:00] not, I'm not that smart. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, but you know, this, uh, yeah, this whole thing is gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out. I'm endlessly hopeful pull because I'm still here. Right. I, I've been at this for almost 10 years now, very publicly, and I think we are seeing a lot of movement. Joe Moore: It's not always what we actually wanna see, but it is movement nonetheless. You know, how many people are writing on this now than there were before? Right. You know, we, we have people in New York Times writing somewhat regularly about psychedelics and. Even international media is covering it. What do we have legalization in Australia somewhat recently for psilocybin and MDMA, Czech Republic. Joe Moore: I think Germany made some moves recently. Mm-hmm. Um, really interesting to see how this is gonna just keep shifting. Um Jay Kopelman: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: And I think there's no way that we're not gonna have prescription psychedelics in three years in the United States. It pro probably more like a [00:54:00] year and a half. I don't know. Do you, are you all taking odds? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah. I mean, I think Jay Kopelman: I, I gotta check Cal sheet, see what they're saying. Melissa Lavasani: I think it's safe to say, I mean, this could even come potentially the end of this year, I think, but definitely by the end of 2027, there's gonna be at least one psychedelic that's FDA approved. Joe Moore: Yeah. Yeah. Melissa Lavasani: If you're not counting Ketamine. Joe Moore: Right. Jay Kopelman: I, I mean, I mean it mm-hmm. It, it doesn't make sense that it. Shouldn't be or wouldn't be. Right. The, we've seen the benefits. Mm-hmm. We know what they are. It's at a very low cost, but you have to keep in mind that these things, they need to be done with the right set setting and container. Right. And, and gotta be able to provide that environment. Jay Kopelman: So, but I would, I would love, like I said, I'd love to work myself out of a job here and see this happen, not just for our veterans, [00:55:00] but for everybody. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Um, so Melissa, is there a way people can get involved or follow PMC or how can they support your work at PMC? Melissa Lavasani: Yeah, I mean, follow us in social media. Melissa Lavasani: Um, our two biggest platforms are LinkedIn and Instagram. Um, I'm bringing my newsletter back because I'm realizing, um, you know, there is a big gap in, in kind of like the knowledge of Washington DC just in general. What's happening here, and I think, you know, part of PC's value is that we're, we are plugged into conversations that are being had, um, here in the city. Melissa Lavasani: And, you know, we do get a little insight. Um, and I think that that would really quiet a lot of, you know, the, a lot of noise that, um, exists in the, our ecosystem. If, if people just had some clarity on like, what's actually happening or happening here and what are the opportunities and, [00:56:00] um, where do we need more reinforcement? Melissa Lavasani: Um, and, and also, you know, as we're putting together public education campaign, you know. My, like, if I could get everything I wanted like that, that campaign would be this like multi-stakeholder collaborative effort, right? Where we're covering all the ground that we need to cover. We're talking to the patient groups, we're talking to traditional mental health organizations, we're talking to the medical community, we're talking to the general population. Melissa Lavasani: I think that's like another area that we, we just seem to be, um, lacking some effort in. And, you know, ultimately the veteran story's always super compelling. It pulls on your heartstrings. These are our heroes, um, of our country. Like that, that is, that is meaningful. But a lot of the veteran population is small and we need the, like a, the just.[00:57:00] Melissa Lavasani: Basic American living in middle America, um, understanding what psychedelics are so that in, in, in presenting to them the stories that they can relate to, um, because that's how you activate the public and you activate the public and you get them to see what's happening in these clinical trials, what the data's been saying, what the opportunities are with psychedelics, and then they start calling their members of Congress and saying, Hey, there is this. Melissa Lavasani: Bill sitting in Congress and why haven't you signed onto it? And that political pressure, uh, when used the right way can be really powerful. So, um, I think, you know, now we're at this really amazing moment where we have a good amount of congressional offices that are familiar enough with psychedelics that they're willing to move on it. Melissa Lavasani: Um, there's another larger group, uh, that is familiar with psychedelics and will assist and co-sponsor legislation, but there's still so many offices that we haven't been able to get to just 'cause like we don't have all the time in the world and all the manpower in the world to [00:58:00] do it. But, you know, that is one avenue is like the advocates can speak to the, the lawmakers, the experts speak to the lawmakers, and we not, we want the public engaged in this, you know, ultimately, like that's. Melissa Lavasani: Like the best form of harm reduction is having an informed public. So we are not, they're not seeing these media headlines of like, oh, this miracle cure that, um, saved my family. It's like, yes, that can happen psychedelics. I mean, person speaking personally, psychedelics did save my family. But what you miss out of that story is the incredible amount of work I put into myself and put into my mental health to this day to maintain, um, like myself, my, my own agency and like be the parent that I wanna be and be the spouse that I wanna be. Melissa Lavasani: So, um, we, we need to continue to share these stories and we need to continue to collaborate to get this message out because we're all, we're all in the same boat right now. We all want the same things. We want patients to have safe and [00:59:00] affordable access to psychedelic assisted care. Um, and, uh. We're just in the beginning here, so, um, sign up for our newsletter and we can sign up on our website and then follow us on social media. Melissa Lavasani: And, um, I anticipate more and more events, um, happening with PMC and hopefully we can scale up some of these events to be much more public facing, um, as this issue grows. So, um, I'm really excited about the future and I'm, I've been enjoying this partnership with Mission Within. Jay is such a professional and, and it really shows up when he needs to show up and, um, I look forward to more of that in the future. Joe Moore: Fantastic. And Jay, how can people follow along and support mission within Foundation? Jay Kopelman: Yeah, again, social media is gonna be a good way to do that. So we, we are also pretty heavily engaged on LinkedIn and on Instagram. Um, I do [01:00:00] share, uh, a bit of my own stuff as well. On social media. So we have social media pages for Mission within Foundation, and we have a LinkedIn page for mission within foundation. Jay Kopelman: I have my own profiles on both of those as well where people can follow along. Um, one of the other things you know that would probably help get more attention for this is if the general public was more aware of the numbers of professional athletes who are also now pursuing. I began specifically to help treat their traumatic brain injuries and the chronic traumatic encephalopathy that they've, uh, suffered as a result of their time in professional sports or even college sports. Jay Kopelman: And, you know. I people worship these athletes, and I [01:01:00] think that if more of them, like Robert Gall, were more outspoken about these treatments and the healing properties that they've provided them, that it would get even more attention. Um, I think though what Melissa said, you know, I don't wanna parrot anything she just said because she said it perfectly Right. Jay Kopelman: And I'd just be speaking to hear myself talk. Um, but being collaborative the way that we are with PMC and with Melissa is I think, the way to move the needle on this overall. And like she said, if she could get more groups involved in, in these discussions, it would, it would do wonders for us. Joe Moore: Well, thank you both so much for your hard work out there. I always appreciate it when people are showing up and doing this important, [01:02:00] sometimes boring and tedious, but nevertheless sometimes, sometimes exciting work. And um, so yeah, just thank you both and thank you both for showing up here to psychedelics today to join us and I hope we can continue to support you all in the future. Jay Kopelman: Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Joe. It's a pleasure being with you today and with Melissa, of course, always Melissa Lavasani: appreciate the time and space. Joe Moore: Thanks.  

Thomas Hatsis joins us for episode 205 to discuss his new book Psychedelic Injustice: How Identity Politics Poisons the Psychedelic Renaissance. Together we discuss some pretty divisive topics: the distinction between social justice and critical social justice, how certain narratives are being imposed on the psychedelic movement, implicit bias research, decolonization rhetoric, the drug war's actual causes, and contested claims about psychedelic history. This one might get spicy for you. Enjoy responsibly. This episode was nearly taken down Find out why here RELEVANT LINKS

Episode summary Joe and Mary dive into how platform censorship and shifting algorithms have reshaped psychedelic media, why DoubleBlind moved to a “newsletter-first” model, and what that's revealed about true audience engagement. They reflect on the post-2024 MDMA decision headwinds, state-level policy moves (wins and losses), and how funding, politics, and culture continue to reconfigure the field. They also explore alternatives to alcohol, chronic pain research, reciprocity around iboga/ibogaine, and lessons from PS25 (MAPS' Psychedelic Science 2025). Highlights & themes From platforms to inboxes: Social and search suppression (IG/FB/Google) throttled harm-reduction journalism; DoubleBlind's pivot to email dramatically improved reach and engagement. Post-MDMA decision reality: Investment cooled; Mary frames it as painful but necessary growth—an ecosystem “airing out” rather than a catastrophic pop. Policy pulse: Mixed year—some state measures stalled (e.g., MA), others advanced (e.g., NM; ongoing Colorado process). Rescheduling cannabis may add complexity more than clarity. Censorship paradox: Suppressing education makes use less safe; independent outlets need community support to keep harm-reduction info visible. Chronic pain & long COVID: Emerging overlaps and training efforts (e.g., Psychedelics & Pain communities) point beyond a psychiatry-only frame. Alcohol alternatives: Low-dose or occasional psychedelic use can shift habits for some; Mary stresses individual context and support beyond any single substance. Reciprocity & iboga: Rising interest (including from right-leaning funders) must include Indigenous consultation and fair benefit-sharing; pace of capitalism vs. community care is an active tension. PS25 field notes: Smaller, more manageable vibe than 2023; fewer “gold-rush” expectations; in-person dialogue beats online flame wars. Notable mentions DoubleBlind: Newsletter-first publishing; nurturing new writers and reported stories. Psychedelics & Pain Association / Clusterbusters: Community-driven models informing care and research (cluster headache protocols history). Books & media: Body Autonomy (Synergetic Press anthology); Joanna Kempner's work on cluster headaches - Psychedelic Outlaws; Lucy Walker's forthcoming iboga film. Compounds to watch: LSD (under-studied relative to MDMA), 2C-B, 5-MeO-DMT (synthetic focus), and broader Shulgin-inspired families.   Mary Carreon: [00:00:00] Okay, I'm gonna send it to my dad because he wants to know. Here Joe Moore: we go. Yeah, send it over. So, hi everybody. We're live Joe here with Mary Anne, how you doing today? Mary Carreon: I'm great Joe. How are you? Joe Moore: Lovely. I actually never asked you how to pronounce your last name does say it right? Mary Carreon: Yes, you did. You said it perfectly Joe Moore: lovely. Joe Moore: Um, great. So it's been a bit, um, we are streaming on LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitch X and Kick, I guess. Yeah. Kick meta. Meta doesn't let me play anymore. Um, Mary Carreon: you're in forever. Timeout. I got it. I got it. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. I think they found a post the other day from 2017. They didn't like, I'm like, oh cool. Like neat, you Mary Carreon: know, you know. Mary Carreon: Yeah. That happened to me recently, actually. Uh, I had a post taken down from 2018 about, uh, mushroom gummies and yeah, it was taken down and I have strikes on my account now. So Joe Moore: Do you get the thing where they ask you if you're okay? Mary Carreon: Yes, with, but like with my searches though, [00:01:00] like if I search something or, or someone's account that has, uh, like mushroom or psychedelic or LSD or something in it, they'll be like, mm-hmm are you okay? Mary Carreon: And then it recommends getting help. So Joe Moore: it's like, to be fair, I don't know if I'm okay, but Yeah, you're like, probably not. I don't really want your help. Meta. Yeah. Mary Carreon: You're like, I actually do need help, but not from you. Thanks. Yeah, Joe Moore: yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: So not from the techno fascists. Joe Moore: Oh, good lord. Yeah. Uh, we'll go there. Joe Moore: I'm sure. Mary Carreon: I know. I just like really dove right there. Sorry. Yeah. All right, so let's, Joe Moore: um, before we go, let's give people like a bit of, you know, high kicks on, on who is Mary, where you working these days and what are you doing? Mary Carreon: Yeah, thank you. My name is Mary Carryon and I am forever and first and foremost a journalist. Mary Carreon: I have been covering, I say the plant legalization spaces for the past decade. It's, it's been nine and a half years. Uh, on January 3rd it will be [00:02:00] 10 years. And I got my start covering cannabis, uh, at OC Weekly. And from there went to High Times, and from there went to Mary Jane, worked for Snoop Dogg. And then, uh, I am now. Mary Carreon: Double blind. And I have become recently, as of this year, the editor in chief of Double Blind, and that's where I have been currently sinking my teeth into everything. So currently, you know, at this moment I'm an editor and I am basically also a curator. So, and, and somebody who is a, uh, I guess an observer of this space more than anything these days. Mary Carreon: Um, I'm not really reporting in the same way that I was. Um, but still I am helping many journalists tell stories and, uh, I feel kind of like a story midwife in many ways. Just like helping people produce stories and get the, get the quotes, get the angles that need to be discussed, get the sentences structures right, and, um, uh, helping [00:03:00] sometimes in a visionary kind of, uh, mindset. Mary Carreon: So yeah, that's what I'm doing these days. Joe Moore: Oh, there it is. Oh, there you are. Love that. And um, you know, it's important to have, um, editors who kind of really get it from a lot of different angles. I love that we have a lot of alignment on this kind of, and the drug war thing and kind of let's, uh, hopefully start developing systems that are for people. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. If you wanna just say that. Yeah, absolutely. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. Joe Moore: So, um, yeah, I almost 10 years in January. That's great. We um, it's so crazy that it's been that long. I think we just turned nine and a half, so we're maybe just a few, a few months shorter than your I love it. Plant medicine reporting career. Joe Moore: That's great. I love it. Um, yeah, so I think. I think one of the first times we chatted, [00:04:00] um, I think you were doing a piece about two cb Do you, do you have any recollection of doing a piece on two cb? Mary Carreon: I do, yes. Yes. Wait, I also remember hitting you up during an Instagram live and I was like, are you guys taking any writers? Mary Carreon: And you guys were like writers, I mean, maybe depending on the writer. Joe Moore: And I was like, I was like, I dunno how that works. Mary Carreon: Like me. Yeah. Joe Moore: Yeah. It was fun. It was fun to work with people like yourself and like get pieces out there. And eventually we had an awesome editor for a bit and that was, that was really cool to be able to like support young startup writers who have a lot of opinions and a lot of things to point out. Joe Moore: There's so much happening. Um, there was so much fraud in like wave one. Of kind of the psychedelic investment hype. There's still some, but it's lesser. Um, and it's really a fascinating space still. Like changing lives, changing not just lives, right? Like our [00:05:00] perspective towards nearly everything, right? Joe Moore: Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, it's interesting because the space has matured. It's evolved. It's different than it was even, what a, I mean, definitely nine years ago, but even five years ago, even four years ago, even last year, things are different. The landscape is different than it was a year ago. Mary Carreon: And I, it's, it's interesting to see the politics of things. It's interesting to see who has money these days given like how hard it is just to kind of survive in this space. And it's interesting just to. Bear witness to all of this going down because it really is a once in a lifetime thing. Nothing is gonna look the same as it does now, as it, uh, then it will like in a, in a year from now or anything. Mary Carreon: So it's really, yeah. It's interesting to take account of all of this Joe Moore: That's so real. Uh, maybe a little [00:06:00] too real, like it's serious because like with everything that's going on from, um, you know, governance, governments, ai Yes. Drug policy shifts. Drug tech shifts, yes. There's so much interesting movement. Um, yes. Joe Moore: You, you know, you, you kind of called it out and I think it's really actually worth discussing here since we're both here on the air together, like this idea that the psychedelic market, not idea, the lived experience of the psychedelic market having shifted substantially. And I, I, I think there's a lot of causes. Joe Moore: But I've never had the opportunity to really chat with you about this kind of like interesting downturn in money flowing into the space. Mm-hmm. Have you thought about it? Like what might the causes be? I'm sure you have. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've thought about it. I mean, it's hard. Well, I don't know. I am really not trying to point fingers and that's not what I'm [00:07:00] trying to do here. Mary Carreon: But I mean, I think a lot of people were really hopeful that the FDA decision last June, not last June, the previous June, a year ago, 2024, June was going to open the floodgates in terms of funding, in terms of, um. In terms of mostly funding, but also just greater opportunities for the space and, uh, greater legitimacy granted to the psychedelic medicine space. Mary Carreon: Mm. And for those who might not know what I'm talking about, I'm talking about the, uh, FDA decision to reject, uh, MDMA assisted therapy and, um, that whole, that whole thing that happened, I'm sure if it, you didn't even have to really understand what was going on in order to get wind of that wild situation. Mary Carreon: Um, so, so maybe, yeah. You probably know what I'm talking about, but I, I do think that that had a great impact on this space. Do I think it was detrimental to this space? [00:08:00] I don't think so. We are in a growth spurt, you know, like we are growing and growing pains happen when you are evolving and changing and learning and figuring out the way forward. Mary Carreon: So I think it was kind of a natural process for all of this and. If things had gone forward like while, yeah, there probably would be more money, there would be greater opportunity in this space for people wanting to get in and get jobs and make a living and have a life for themselves in this, in this world. Mary Carreon: I don't know if it was, I don't know if it would necessarily be for the betterment of the space in general for the long term. I think that we do have to go through challenges in order for the best case scenarios to play out in the future, even though that's difficult to say now because so many of us are struggling. Mary Carreon: So, but I, but I have hope and, and that statement is coming from a place of hope for the future of this space and this culture. Joe Moore: Yeah. It's, um, I'm with [00:09:00] you. Like we have to see boom bust cycles. We have to see growth and contraction just like natural ecosystems do. Mary Carreon: Absolutely, absolutely. It has to be that way. Mary Carreon: And if it's not that way, then ifs, if. It's, it like what forms in place of that is a big bubble or like a, a hot air balloon that's inevitably going to pop, which, like, we are kind of experiencing that. But I think that the, I think that the, um, the, the air letting out of the balloon right now is a much softer experience than it would be if everything was just like a green light all the way forward, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: So, Joe Moore: right. And there's, there's so many factors. Like I'm, I'm thinking about, uh, metas censorship like we were talking about before. Yes. Other big tech censorship, right? Mm-hmm. SEO shifts. Mary Carreon: Oh. Um, yes, absolutely. Also, uh, there were some pretty major initiatives on the state level that did not pass also this past year that really would've also kind of [00:10:00] helped the landscape a little bit. Mary Carreon: Um. In terms of creating jobs, in terms of creating opportunities for funding, in terms of having more, uh, like the perception of safer money flow into the space and that, you know, those, those things didn't happen. For instance, the measure for in Massachusetts that didn't go through and just, you know, other things that didn't happen. Mary Carreon: However, there have been really good things too, in terms of, uh, legalization or various forms of legalization, and that's in New Mexico, so we can't, you know, forget that there, and we also can't forget just the movement happening in Colorado. So there are really great things happening and the, the movement is still moving forward. Mary Carreon: Everything is still going. It's just a little more difficult than maybe it could have been Joe Moore: right. Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yes. But also, we Mary Carreon: can't forget this censorship thing. The censorship thing is a horse shit. Sorry. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to cuss, but it is, [00:11:00] but it is Joe Moore: calling it out and it's important to say this stuff. Joe Moore: And you know, folks, if you want to support independent media, please consider supporting Doubleblind and psychedelics today. From a media perspective, absolutely. We wanna wanna put as much out as we can. Yes. The more supporters we have, the more we can help all of you understand what's happening and yes. Joe Moore: Getting you to stay safer. Mary Carreon: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole difficulty with the censorship is that psychedelics today, and Doubleblind for instance, but also Lucid News, also other, uh, other influencers, other creators in the space, they like. What all of us are doing is putting out information that is ultimately creating a safer user experience. Mary Carreon: And so with the censorship, we are not able to do so anymore, which creates actually a lot of danger. So. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. The censorship is difficult, and if you are somebody who posts about psychedelics, I know that you know this and I am preaching to the choir. Joe Moore: Yeah. So can you talk a [00:12:00] little bit about you all at Double Blind made a major shift in the last number of months towards, uh, kind of not necessarily putting everything out there and, and kind of like, um, actually I don't even know the language you use. Joe Moore: What's the, what's the language you use for the kind of model shift you took on? Mary Carreon: Yeah, I mean, it's great. It's been a wild shift. It's been a wild shift. Um, what we are currently doing is we went to a newsletter first model, which instead of just posting onto a website for everyone to see, and then, um, you know, hopefully getting SEO hits and also posting on their, then posting those stories onto Instagram and Facebook and Twitter, and hoping to get traffic through social media. Mary Carreon: Uh, we decided that that was no longer working for us because it wasn't, um, because the censorship is so bad on, on social media, like on Instagram, for instance, and Facebook and Twitter, well, less on Twitter, [00:13:00] but still, nonetheless on social media, the censorship is so bad. And also the censorship exists on Google. Mary Carreon: When you Google search how to take mushrooms, double blinds is not even on. You know, our guide is not on the first page. It's like, you know, way the heck, way the heck down there. Maybe page 2, 3, 4, 5. I don't know. But, um, the issue, the issue with that, or, or the reason why rather that it's that way is because Google is prioritizing, um, like rehabilitation centers for this information. Mary Carreon: And also they are prioritizing, uh, medical information. So, like WebMD for instance. And all of these organizations that Google is now prioritizing are u are, are, are, are organizations that see psychedelic use through the lens of addiction or through drug drug abuse. So [00:14:00] again, you know, I don't know, take it for how you want to, I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna tell anybody like what is the right way to use their substances or whatever. Mary Carreon: However, it's really important to have the proper harm reduction resources and tools available. Uh, just readily available, not five pages down on a Google search. So anyways, all of that said double blind was our traffic was way down. And it was looking very bleak for a while. Just we were getting kicked off of Instagram. Mary Carreon: We weren't getting any traffic from social media onto our website, onto our stories. It was a, it was a vicious kind of cycle downward, and it wasn't really working. And there was a moment there where Doubleblind almost shut down as a result of these numbers because there's a, like you, a media company cannot sustain itself on really low page views as a result. Mary Carreon: So what we [00:15:00] decided to do was go to a newsletter first model, which relies on our email list. And basically we are sending out newsletters three days a week of new original content, mostly, uh, sometimes on Wednesdays we repost an SEO story or something like that. Um, to just to engage our audience and to work with our audience that way, and to like to actually engage our audience. Mary Carreon: I cannot emphasize that enough because on Instagram and on Facebook, we were only reaching like, I don't know, not that many people, like not that many people at all. And all of that really became obvious as soon as we started sending out to our email list. And as soon as we did that, it was wild. How many, how many views to the website and also how many just open like our open rate and our click through rate were showing how our audience was reacting to our content. Mary Carreon: In other words. [00:16:00] Social media was not a good, in, like, was not a good indicator of how our content was being received at all because people kind of weren't even receiving it. So going to the newsletter first model proved to be very beneficial for us and our numbers. And also just reaching our freaking audience, which we were barely doing, I guess, on social media, which is, which is wild, you know, for, for a, an account that has a lot of followers, I forget at this exact moment, but we have a ton, double blind, has a ton of followers on, on Instagram. Mary Carreon: We were, we, we get like 500 likes or, you know, maybe like. I don't know. If you're not looking at likes and you're looking at views, like sometimes we get like 16 K views, which, you know, seems good, but also compared to the amount of followers who follow us, it's like not really that great. And we're never reaching new, like a new audience. Mary Carreon: We're always reaching the same audience too, [00:17:00] which is interesting because even with our news, with our, with our email list, we are still reaching new people, which is, which says just how much more fluid that space is. Mm-hmm. And it's because it's, because censorship does not at least yet exist in our inboxes. Mary Carreon: And so therefore email is kind of like the underground, if you will, for this kind of content and this type of material journalism, et cetera. So, so yeah. So it, it, it has been a massive shift. It is required a lot of changes over at double blind. Everything has been very intense and crazy, but it has been absolutely worth it, and it's really exciting that we're still here. Mary Carreon: I'm so grateful that Double-Blind is still around, that we are still able to tell stories and that we are still able to work with writers and nurture writers and nurture the storytelling in this space because it needs to evolve just the same way that the industry and the [00:18:00] culture and everything else is evolving. Joe Moore: Yeah, I think, I think you're spot on like the, when I watch our Instagram account, like, um, I haven't seen the number change from 107 K for two years. Mary Carreon: Absolutely. Same. And, um, same. Joe Moore: Yeah. And you know, I think, I think there's certain kinds of content that could do fine. I think, uh, psychedelic attorney, Robert Rush put up a comment, um, in response to Jack Coline's account getting taken down, um, that had some good analysis, um. Joe Moore: Of the situation. Go ahead. You had No, Mary Carreon: no, I'm just like, you know, I can't, when, when journalists are getting kicked off of these, of these platforms for their stories, for their reported stories, that's like, that is a massive red flag. And that's all I have to say. I mean, we could go into more, more details on that, but that is a [00:19:00] huge red flag. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, for sure. The, I, yeah. And like I'm sure he'll get it back. I'm sure that's not for good, but I think he did. Okay, great. Mary Carreon: I think he did. Yeah. Yeah, I think he did. Joe Moore: Yeah. So thank you. Shout out to Jack. Yeah, thanks Jack. Um, and I think, you know, there's, there's no one with that kind of energy out there. Joe Moore: Um, and I'm excited to see what happens over time with him. Yeah. How he'll unfold. Absolutely unfold. Oh yeah. It's like, um. Crushing the beat. Mary Carreon: Oh yeah, absolutely. Especially the political, the political beat. Like, there's no, there's few people who are really tackling that specific sector, which is like mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: So exciting for a journalist. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so model shifting, like we all have to like, adapt in new ways. Kyle and I are still trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Like maybe it is newsletter first. Like I, I realized that I hadn't been writing for [00:20:00] years, which is problematic, um, in that like, I have a lot of things to say. Mary Carreon: Totally. Joe Moore: And nobody got to hear it. Um, so I started a substack, which I had complicated feelings about honestly. 'cause it's just another. Rich person's platform that I'm, you know, helping them get Andreessen money or whatever. And, you know, so I'm gonna play lightly there, but I will post here and there. Um, I'm just trying to figure it all out, you know, like I've put up a couple articles like this GLP one and Mushrooms article. Mary Carreon: I saw that. I saw that. Really? And honestly, that's a really, like, it's so weird, but I don't, like, it's such a weird little thing that's happening in the space. I wonder, yeah, I wonder, I wonder how that is going to evolve. It's um, you know, a lot of people, I, I briefly kind of wrote about, um, psychedelics and the GLP, is that what it is? Mary Carreon: GLP one. Joe Moore: GLP one. Say Ozempic. Yeah, just, yeah, Ozempic. Yeah, exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah, exactly. I wrote about [00:21:00] that briefly last year and there were a bunch of people like obviously horrified, which it is kind of horrifying, but also there's a bunch of people who believe that it is extremely cutting edge, which it also is. Mary Carreon: So it's really interesting, really fascinating. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I remember Bernie Sanders saying like, if this drug gets as much traction as it needs to, it will bankrupt Medicaid. I guess that's not really a problem anymore. Um, but, but, uh, but so like naming it real quick, like it changed the way we had to digest things, therefore, like mushrooms get digested differently and, um, some people don't respond in the expected ways. Joe Moore: And then there was some follow up, oh, we, in the regulated model, we just do lemon tech. And then I was like, is that legal in the regulated model? And I, I don't know the answer still. Mm-hmm. Like there was a couple things, you know, if users know to do it, you know, I don't, I don't totally understand the regulated model's so strange in Oregon, Colorado, that like, we really need a couple lawyers opinions. Joe Moore: Right. I think Mary Carreon: yes, of course Joe Moore: the lawyers just gave it a [00:22:00] thumbs up. They didn't even comment on the post, which is, laughs: thanks guys. Um, Joe Moore: but you know, laughs: yeah. You're like, thank you. Joe Moore: Thanks and diversity of opinions. So yeah, there's that. And like GLP ones are so interesting in that they're, one friend reached out and said she's using it in a microdose format for chronic neuroinflammation, which I had never heard of before. Joe Moore: Whoa. And um, I think, you know, articles like that, my intent was to just say, Hey, researchers yet another thing to look at. Like, there's no end to what we need to be looking at. Abso Mary Carreon: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. You know, reporting on this space actually taught me that there's so much just in general that isn't being researched, whether that's in this space, but also beyond and how, um, yeah, just how behind, actually, maybe not, maybe behind isn't the right word, but it kind of feels from my novice and from my novice place in the, in the world and [00:23:00] understanding research, it's. Mary Carreon: Hard for me to see it as anything, but being behind in the research that we all really need, that's really going to benefit humanity. But also, you know, I get that it's because of funding and politics and whatever, whatever, you know, we can go on for days on all of that. Joe Moore: What's the real reason? What's the real reason? Joe Moore: Well, drug war. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Well, yeah, definitely the drug war. Nixon. Yeah. Yes, yes, definitely the drug war. Yeah. I mean, and just the fact that even all of the drug research that happens is, again, through the lens of addiction and drug abuse, so Joe Moore: mm-hmm. Hard to right. Yeah. Um, like ni a is obviously really ridiculous and, and the way they approach this stuff, and Carl Hart illustrates that well, and, Mary Carreon: oh man, yes, he does. Joe Moore: Like, I think Fadiman's lab in Palo Alto got shut down, like 67, 66 or 67, and like that's, you know, that was one of the later ones, Mary Carreon: right? And, Joe Moore: and like, Mary Carreon: and here we are. Joe Moore: The amount of suffering that could have been alleviated if we [00:24:00] had not done this is. Incalculable. Um, yes. Yes. Yeah. Mary Carreon: I mean the, yeah, it's hard to say exactly how specifically it would be different, but it's difficult to also not think that the fentanyl crisis and the opioid addiction rate and situation that is currently like plaguing the, the world, but particularly the United States, it's hard to think that it wouldn't be, like, it wouldn't be a different scenario altogether. Joe Moore: Right, right. Absolutely. Um, and it's, um, it's interesting to speculate about, right? Like Yeah. Yes. Where would we be? And Mary Carreon: I know, I know, I know, I know it is speculation. Absolutely. But it's like hard, as I said, it's hard not to think that things would be different. Joe Moore: Right. Right. Um, I like, there's two kind of quotes, like, um, not, this one's not really a quote. Joe Moore: Like, we haven't really had a [00:25:00] blockbuster psychiatric med since Prozac, and I think that was in the eighties or early nineties, which is terrifying. And then, um, I think this guy's name is James Hillman. He is kinda like a Jungian, um, educator and I think the title of one of his books is, we're a hundred Years Into Psychotherapy and the World is Still a Mess. Joe Moore: And I think like those two things are like, okay, so two different very white people approaches didn't go very far. Yes. Um, yes and laughs: mm-hmm. Joe Moore: Thankfully, I think a lot of people are seeing that. Mm-hmm. Um, finally and kind of putting energy into different ways. Um, Mary Carreon: yeah. Absolutely. I think, yeah, I mean, we need to be exploring the other options at this point because what is currently happening isn't working on many fronts, but including in terms of mental health especially. Mary Carreon: So mm-hmm. We gotta get going. Right? We [00:26:00] gotta get moving. Geez. Joe Moore: Have you all, have you all seen much of the information around chronic pain treatments? Like I'm, I'm a founding board member with the Psychedelics and Pain Association, which has a really fun project. Oh, that's interesting. Mary Carreon: Um, I've seen some of the studies around that and it's endlessly fascinating for obvious, for obvious reasons. Mary Carreon: I, um, we have a writer who's been working for a long time on a story, uh, about the chronic pain that has since. Become an issue for this, for her, for the writer. Mm-hmm. Um, since she had COVID. Mm-hmm. Since, since she is just like, COVID was the onset basically of this chronic pain. And, um, there she attended a psychedelics in pain, chronic pain conference and, uh, that has pretty much like, changed her world. Mary Carreon: Um, well, in terms of just the information that's out there, not necessarily that she's painless, but it's just, you know, offering a, a brand new, a brand new road, a brand new path that is giving her, [00:27:00] um, relief on days when the pain is, uh, substantial. laughs: Yeah. Mary Carreon: So that's interesting. And a lot of people are experiencing that as well. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So there's, there's a really cool set of overlap between the COVID researchers, long COVID researchers and the chronic pain people. 'cause there is Yes. This new science of pain that's yes. Our group, PPA put out like a really robust kind of training, um, for clinicians and researchers and even patients to get more educated. Joe Moore: And we're, we're getting, um, kind of boostered by cluster busters and we're kind of leveraging a lot of what they've done. Mary Carreon: Wait, what is a cluster buster? Joe Moore: Oh gosh. Um, so they're a 5 0 1 C3. Okay. Started with Bob Wald. Okay. Bob Wald is a cluster headache survivor. Oh, oh, oh, Mary Carreon: okay. Got it. Got it. Yes. So they're Joe Moore: the charity that, um, has been really championing, um, cluster headache research because they found a protocol [00:28:00] with mushrooms. Joe Moore: Yes, yes, yes. To eliminate. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, this really great, I Mary Carreon: love that. Joe Moore: This really great book was written by a Rutgers, um, I think medical sociologist or anthropologist psychedelic. Love laughs: that. Joe Moore: Joanna Kempner. Cool. Um, and it kind of talks about the whole, um, cluster busters saga, and it was, it was pretty cool. Joe Moore: Nice. So they've been at it for about as long as maps. Um, oh wow. Maybe a little earlier. Maybe a little later. Mary Carreon: I love that. Cool. I mean, yeah, that's really great. That's really great. Joe Moore: So we're copying their playbook in a lot of ways and Cool. We about to be our own 5 0 1 C3 and, um, nice. And that should be really fun. Joe Moore: And, uh, the next conference is coming up at the end of next month if people wanna check that out. Psychedelic. Nice. Mary Carreon: Nice, nice, nice. Cool. Joe Moore: Yeah, so that, like, how I leaned into that was not only did I get a lot of help from chronic pain with psychedelics and going to Phish shows and whatever, um, you know, I, and overuse for sure helped me somehow. Joe Moore: [00:29:00] Um, God bless. Yeah. But I, I like it because it breaks us out of the psychiatry only frame for psychedelics. Mm. And starts to make space for other categories. Mm-hmm. Is one of the bigger reasons I like it. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Which, like, we need to be, we need to, we, no one else is gonna do it for us. We like the people in the space who are finding new uses for these substances need to be creating those, those pathways and those new niches for people to then begin studying, et cetera, and exploring and yeah. Mary Carreon: Making, making a proper avenue for, Joe Moore: right, right. And, you know, um, I don't know that this is a Maha thing, so No, I'm going there, I guess, but like, how do we kind of face squarely America and the world's drinking problems? Not [00:30:00] knowing what we know now about alcohol, you know what I mean? And then like, what are the alternatives? Joe Moore: You know, some, some writers out there on substack are very firm that everybody needs to not do any substance. And like all psychedelics are super bad and drugs are evil, you know, famous sub stackers that I won't name. But you know, like what is the alternative? Like, I, like we have to have something beyond alcohol. Joe Moore: And I think you've found some cannabis helpful for that. Mary Carreon: Yeah, I, you know, it's, it's interesting because it's, there are, there's definitely an argument to be made for the power of these substances in helping, I don't wanna, I don't wanna say curb, but definitely reduce the symptoms of, uh, wanting to use or to drink or to consume a specific substance. Mary Carreon: There's obviously there is an argument to be made. There are, there is ano another camp of people who are kind [00:31:00] of in the, in the, in the, in the realm of using a drug to get off of a drug isn't how you do it. However, and, and I do, it depends on the individual. It depends on the individual and the, and how that person is engaging with their own addiction. Mary Carreon: I think for whether or not the substances work, like whether psychedelics work to help somebody kind of get off of alcohol or get off of cocaine or stop using opioids or, you know, et cetera. Mm-hmm. However, I think like, when the situation is so dire, we need to be trying everything. And if that means, like, if, like, you know, if you look at the studies for like smoking cessation or alcohol use, mushrooms do help, psilocybin does help with that. Mary Carreon: Mm-hmm. But, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that also need to happen. There's a lot of things that also need to happen in order for those, uh, that relief to maintain and to stick and to, uh, really guide [00:32:00] somebody off of those substances. Mm-hmm. It's not just the substance itself. Joe Moore: Right. So I'm, I'm explicitly talking like recreational alternatives, right. Like how do I Yeah. On per minute, like, am Anitas becoming helpful? Yeah, yeah. Are helpful and Yeah. Yeah. I think like even, um, normal. What we might call like normal American alcohol use. Like Yeah. That's still like, quite carcinogenic and like, um, absolutely. Joe Moore: We're kind of trying to spend less as a country on cancer treatments, which I hope is true. Then how do we, how do we develop things that are, you know, not just abstinence only programs, which we know for sure aren't great. Mary Carreon: Yeah. They don't work. Yeah. I don't, it's, it's difficult. Mm-hmm. It's difficult to say. Mary Carreon: I mean mm-hmm. I don't know. Obviously I, I, well, maybe it's not obvious at all for people who don't know me, but, you know, I exist in a, I exist in, in a world where recreational use is like, it's like hard to define what recreational use is because if we are using this, if we are using mushrooms or LSD even, or MDMA, [00:33:00] you know, there are so many, there's a lot of the therapy that can happen through the use of these substances, even if we're not doing it, you know, with a blindfold on or whatever and yeah, I think like. Mary Carreon: There is a decent swap that can happen if you, if you are somebody who doesn't wanna be, you know, having like three beers a night, or if you are somebody who's like, you know, maybe not trying to have like a bottle of wine at a night or something like that, you know, because like Americans drink a lot and a lot of the way that we drink is, um, you know, like we don't see it as alcoholism. Mary Carreon: Even though it could be, it could be that's like a difficult Joe Moore: potentially subclinical, but right there. Mary Carreon: Um, yeah. Yeah. It's like, you know, it's, um, we don't see it as that because everybody, a lot of people, not everybody, but a lot of people drink like that, if that makes sense. If you know mm-hmm. If you, if you get what I'm, if you get what I'm saying. Mary Carreon: So, you know, I do think that there's a lot of benefit that, I don't [00:34:00] know, having, like a, having a mushroom, having a mushroom experience can really help. Or sometimes even like low dose, low doses of mushrooms can also really help with, like, with the. Desire to reach for a drink. Yeah, totally. And, and AMS as well. Mary Carreon: I know that that's also helping people a lot too. And again, outside of the clinical framework. Joe Moore: Yeah. I'm, a lot of people project on me that I'm just like constantly doing everything all the time and I'm, I'm the most sober I've been since high school. You know, like it's bonkers that like Yeah. Um, and you know, probably the healthiest event since high school too. Joe Moore: Yeah. But it's fa it's fascinating that like, you know, psychedelics kind of helped get here and even if it was like For sure something that didn't look like therapy. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I think, I think most of us here in this space are getting projected on as to like, you know, being like what Normies would consider druggies or something, or that we are just like, you know, high all the time. Mary Carreon: Um, [00:35:00] I know that that is definitely something that I face regularly, like out in the world. Um, but, you know, I would also, I would also argue that. Uh, like mushrooms have completely altered my approach to health, my approach to mental health, and not even having to consume that, you know, that substance in order or that, you know, that fun fungi, in order for me to like tap into taking care of my mental health or approaching better, uh, food options, et cetera. Mary Carreon: It's kind of like what these, it's like how the mushrooms continue to help you even after you have taken them. Like the messages still keep coming through if you work with them in that capacity. Right. And yeah, and also same with, same with LSD too. LSD has also kind my experiences with that have also guided me towards a healthier path as well. Mary Carreon: I, I understand that maybe for some people it's not that way, but, um, for me that substance is a medicine as well, [00:36:00] or it can be. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, so. What are, what are some things popping up these days about like US drug policy that's like getting exciting for you? Like, are you feeling feeling like a looming optimism about a, a major shift? Joe Moore: Are you kind of like cautiously optimistic with some of the weird kind of mandatory minimum stuff that's coming up or? Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I know that there was a huge, a, a pretty huge shift over at the DEA and I wish I remembered, I wish I remembered his name. The new guy who's now, I believe the head of the DEA, I don't know enough information about it to really feel a way. Mary Carreon: However, I don't think that he's necessarily going to be serving us as a community here, uh, in the psychedelic space. I, you know, I just don't think that that's something that we can ever depend on with the DEA. Uh, I also don't think that [00:37:00] the DEA is necessarily going to be. All that helpful to cannabis, like the cannabis space either. Mary Carreon: Um, I know that, that Trump keeps kind of discussing or, or dangling a carrot around the rescheduling of cannabis. Um, for, he's been, he's been, but he's doing it a lot more now. He's been talking about it more recently. Uh, he says like, in the next like couple weeks that he's going to have some kind of decision around that, allegedly. Mary Carreon: But we will see also, I'm not sure that it's going to necessarily help anybody if we reschedule two. Uh, what from schedule one to schedule th two, three, schedule three. Joe Moore: Either way it's like not that useful. Right. Exactly. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's, um, just going to probably cause a lot more red tape and a lot of confusion for the state rec markets. Mary Carreon: So it's like something that we, it's like only ridden with unintentional, unintentional consequences. Unintended consequences. Mm-hmm. Because no one knows how it's really going to [00:38:00] impact anything, um, if, if at all. But I don't know. It's hard, it's hard to imagine that there won't be any, uh, like more complex regulatory issues for business owners and also probably consumers as well. Joe Moore: Hmm. Yeah. This guy's name's Terry Cole. Mary Carreon: Oh, the new DEA guy. Joe Moore: Yeah. Um, I don't know much about him. Terry. Yeah. Terry, I would love to chat. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Terry, let's talk. I'm sure your people Joe Moore: are watching. Yeah. So like, just let him know. We wanna chat. Yeah. We'll come to DC and chat it out. Um, yeah. It's, um, but yeah, I, Carl Hart's solution to me makes like almost most of the sense in the world to just end the scheduling system Absolutely. Joe Moore: And start building some sort of infrastructure to keep people safe. That's clearly not what we have today. Mary Carreon: No. But building an infrastructure around the health and wellness and uh, safety of [00:39:00] people is the exact opposite system that we have currently right now. Because also the scheduling system has a lot to do with the incarceration in the United States and the criminal just, or the criminal system. Mary Carreon: So, so yeah, like we can't disentangle the two really. Joe Moore: It just started, um, I feel negligent on this. Uh, synergetic press put out a book like a year or two ago called Body Autonomy. Mm-hmm. Um, did that one come across your desk at all? Mm-hmm. No. I wish basically contributed. Oh, nice. A number of people. So it's both like, um. Joe Moore: Drug policy commentary and then like sex work commentary. Oh, nice. And it was like high level, like love that really, really incredible love that detailed science based conversations, which is not what we have around this. Like, that doesn't make me feel good. So you should go to jail kind of stuff. Or like, I'm gonna humiliate you for real though. Joe Moore: Ticket. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh God. Uh, when you think about it like that, it just really also shows [00:40:00] just the uh, um, the level at which religion has also kind of fundamentally infused itself into the scheduling system, but also our laws, you know, like what you just said, this like, shame-based, I'm going to embarrass you and make you into a criminal when you know actually you are a law for the most part, a law abiding citizen, with the exception of this one thing that you're doing for. Mary Carreon: A, your survival and or your, like, your feeling good, wanting to feel good addressing pain. Um, there's a large, uh, like noise coming out of the front yard of my house right now. Hold on. Just a, it doesn't sound too bad. It doesn't sound too bad. Okay. Okay, good. Not at all. Not at all. Okay. Yeah, I had Joe Moore: people working on my roof all day and somehow it worked out. Joe Moore: Oh, good. Um, yeah. Um, yeah, it's, it's fascinating and I, I've been coming around like, I, I identify as politically confused, [00:41:00] um, and I feel like it's the most honest way I can be. Um, Mary Carreon: I am also politically confused these days, impossible to align with any, uh, party or group currently in existence at this exact juncture in American history. Joe Moore: I can't find any that I want to throw my dice in with. Nah. This idea of like fucking way being. Like what is the most humane way to do government as a way it's been put to me recently. And that's interesting. So it comes down to like coercion, are we caring for people, things like that. And um, I don't think we're doing it in a super humane way right now. Mary Carreon: Um, we, yeah, I am pretty sure that even if there was, I mean, I think that even if we looked at the data, the data would support that we are not doing it in a humane way. Joe Moore: So Mary Carreon: unfortunately, and Joe Moore: you know, this whole tech thing, like the tech oligarch thing, you kind of dropped at the beginning and I think it's worth bringing that back because we're, we're on all [00:42:00] these tech platforms. Joe Moore: Like that's kind of like how we're transmitting it to people who are participating in these other platforms and like, you know, it's not all meta. I did turn on my personal Facebook, so everybody's watching it there. I hope. Um, see if that count gets, Mary Carreon: um, Joe Moore: but you know, this idea that a certain number of private corporations kind of control. Joe Moore: A huge portion of rhetoric. Um, and you know, I think we probably got Whiffs of this when Bezos bought Washington Post and then Yes. You know, Musk with X and like yes. You know, is this kind of a bunch of people who don't necessarily care about this topic and the way we do, and they're like in larger topics too about humane government and like, you know, moving things in good directions. Joe Moore: Um, I don't know, thoughts on that rift there as it relates to anything you, wherever you wanna go. Yeah. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I don't think that they are looking at, I don't think that they are looking [00:43:00] at it the way that we are. I don't think that they can see it from their vantage point. Um, I think that like, in the, in a similar way that so many CEOs who run businesses have no fucking clue about what's actually happening in their businesses and the actual workers and, and employees of their businesses can tell them in more detail. Mary Carreon: Far more detail about what's actually happening on the, on the floor of their own business. Uh, I think that it is something like that. However, that's not to say that, you know, these, these CEOs who employ people who build the A algorithm are obviously guided to create the limitations on us as people who speak about drugs, et cetera, and are creating a algorithm that ultimately is looking at things in a very blanket way in terms of, uh, like we're probably seen on the same level as like drug dealers, if that makes sense. Mary Carreon: Which is obviously a much, you know, there's, [00:44:00] it's a very different thing. Um, so, you know, there's like these CEOs are giving directions to their employees to ultimately create systems that harm. Information flow and inform and, and like the information health of, of platforms and of just people in general. Mary Carreon: So it's hard to say because there's nuance there, obviously, but I would bet you that someone like Elon Musk doesn't really have a full grasp as to the, the nuances and details of what's even happening within, on the ground floor of his businesses. Because that's like, not how CEOs in America run, run, and operate. Mary Carreon: They're stupid companies. So, so yeah. And I feel like that, like, that's across the board, like that's across the board. That's how I, that's probably how Zuck is operating with Meta and Facebook, et cetera. And yeah, just likewise and across, across the whole, [00:45:00] across the whole spectrum. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think, um, a thing. Joe Moore: Then as the people like, we need to keep looking at how can we keep each other informed. And that's kind of circling back to drug journalism like we do and like, um, other, other sorts of journalism that doesn't really get the press it deserves. Right. And I've been getting far more content that I find more valuable off of tragically back on Zucks platform like IG is getting me so much interesting content from around the world that no major outlet's covering. Mary Carreon: That's so interesting. Like what? Like what would you say? Joe Moore: Oh, um, uh, certain, um, violent situations overseas. Oh, oh, got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, um, you know, that America's paying for, so like, you know, I just don't love that I don't have a good, you know, journalistic source I can [00:46:00] point to, to say, hey, like right. Joe Moore: These writers with names, with addresses, like, and offices here. Yes. You know, they did the work and they're held, you know, they're ethical journalists, so yes. You can trust them. Right. You know what I mean? Yes, Mary Carreon: yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, all of this makes everything so much harder for determining, like, the censorship specifically makes it so much harder for the people to determine like, what's real, what's not. Mary Carreon: Because, because of exactly what you just said. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, we are, we are basically what that means, like what is required of the people and people who are consuming information is becoming a smart consumer and being able to determine what's real, what's not. How can we trust this individual? Mary Carreon: How can we not, which isn't analysis process that all of us need to be sharpening every single day, especially with the advent of AI and, uh, how quickly this, this type of content is coming at all of us. Like, especially if you're on TikTok, which many of us are, you know, like information comes flying at you 3000 miles an hour, and it's sometimes [00:47:00] really difficult to determine what's real, what's not, because AI is. Mary Carreon: AI is not where it's going to be, and it still is in its nascent phase. However, it's still pretty fucking good and it's still very confusing on there. So, so again, like the media literacy of the people needs to be sharpened every single day. We cannot be on there, we cannot be on the internet existing. Mary Carreon: That everything that we are seeing is real. Whether that's about, you know, these, um, the violence overseas, uh, happening at the hands of the United States, whether that is, uh, even drug information like, you know, et cetera, all of all of it. Or just like news about something happening at Yellowstone National Park or something that is happening in the, uh, at like. Mary Carreon: Um, like potential riots also happening at protests in downtown la, et cetera. Like all, all of it, we need to be so careful. And I think what that also, like, one way that [00:48:00] we can adjust and begin to develop our media literacy skills is talking to people maybe who are there, reaching out to people who are saying that they were there and asking them questions, and also sussing that out. Mary Carreon: You know, obviously we can't do that for all situations, but definitely some of them. Joe Moore: Yeah, absolutely. Like, Joe Moore: um, a quick pivot. Mm-hmm. Were you at PS 25? Mary Carreon: Yes, I was. What did I think? Uh, you know, I, I was running around like crazy at this one. I felt like I didn't even have a second to breathe and I feel like I didn't even have a second to really see anybody. I was like, worry. I was jumping from one stage to the next. Mary Carreon: However, I would say, uh, one of, one of the things that I have said and how I felt about it was that I felt that this, this event was smaller than it was two years ago. And I preferred that I preferred the reduction in size just because it was, uh, less over, less overwhelming [00:49:00] in an, in an already very overwhelming event. Mary Carreon: Um, but I thought that from the panels that I did see that everyone did a really great job. I thought that maps, you know, it's impressive that maps can put on an event like that. Um, I also was very cognizant that the suits were there in full effect and, uh, you know, but that's not unusual. That's how it was last time as well. Mary Carreon: And, um, I felt that there was Mary Carreon: a, uh, like the, the, the level of excitement and the level of like opportunity and pro, like the prosperous. The like, prospect of prosperity coming down the pipeline like tomorrow, you know, kind of vibe was different than last time. Mm-hmm. Which that was very present at the one, two years ago, uh, which was the last PS psychedelic science. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Um, anyways. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was really nice to see everybody. [00:50:00] I feel like in-person events is a great way for everybody in the psychedelic space to be interacting with each other instead of like keyboard warrioring against each other, you know, uh, over the computer and over the internet. Mary Carreon: I think that, um, yeah, uh, being in person is better than being fighting each other over the internet, so, yeah. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. People seem to be a little bit more civil in person. Mary Carreon: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I think that that is something that we all need to be considering more often, and also inviting people from across the aisle to your events and creating peace, because in person it's a little different than it is. Mary Carreon: When you have the opportunity to, uh, yeah, like keyboard attack someone over the internet, it's like, yeah. It's just so silly. So silly. We look like fools. Like we look like absolute idiots doing that. And you know what? I cannot sit here and say that I haven't looked like an idiot. So, you know, it's like I'm not, I'm not talking from like a high horse over here, but, but you know, it's like, it's [00:51:00] better when it's in person. Mary Carreon: I feel like there's like more civil engagements that we can all have. Joe Moore: It's practice, you know? Yeah. We're learning. Yeah. We are. We should be learning, including us, and yes, of course. Um, I, I play a subtler game these days and, uh, you know, I, I, I, it's better when we all look a lot better in my opinion, because yes, we can inform policy decisions, we can be the ones helping inform really important things about how these things should get implemented and absolutely right. Joe Moore: Like, Mary Carreon: absolutely. Yeah, it does. It does. Nobody, any service, especially these medicines, especially these sacraments, especially these plants, these molecules, et cetera, if we are all sitting here fighting each other and like calling each other names and trying to dunk on one another, when like in reality, we are also all kind of pushing for the same thing more or less. Joe Moore: Mm-hmm. So a thing that [00:52:00] I, it's a, it's kind of a, I, I had a great time at PS 25. I have no, no real complaints. I just wish I had more time. Yeah, same. Um, same. Yeah. Our booth was so busy. It was so fun. Just good. And it was like, good. I, I know. It was really good. I'm trying to say it out loud. I get to talk at the conference before Rick did. laughs: Oh, oh, Joe Moore: the morning show they put us on at like seven 30 in the morning or something crazy. Oh my god. It was early. I dunno if it was seven 30. Mary Carreon: That's so early. That's so early. Joe Moore: Yeah, right. Like that's crazy. I got zero nightlife in That's okay. Um, I was not, I was there for work. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I was Joe Moore: jealous. I didn't party, but you know, whatever. Joe Moore: Yeah, yeah. Mary Carreon: I did not party this time really in the same way that I did at PS 20. Was it 2023? Joe Moore: 23, yeah. 23. I only stay up till 11 one night in 23. Nice. Mary Carreon: Okay. Um, okay. Joe Moore: So I behaved, I have a pattern of behaving. 'cause I like That's good. I'm so bent outta shape inside going into these things. I'm like, I know, I know. Joe Moore: And, and I'm like, oh, all [00:53:00] my friends are gonna be there. It's gonna be great. And then it's like, yeah. It's mostly friends and only a little bit of stress. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, Mary Carreon: yeah. I had a, I had a great time. It was really good seeing everybody again. Like you, I wish that I had more time with people. Like there are people that I like didn't even see who are my friends, Joe Moore: so, which Yeah. Joe Moore: Which is sad. That's like a subtext in, in like the notes coming away from 25. Is that the, um, American Right, if we wanna call it that, is very interested in this stuff. Oh yeah. Like the Texas establishment. Oh yeah. Um, the Texas contingent, right? They're deep. They're real deep. Mm-hmm. I have, um, Mary Carreon: let's talk about that more. Mary Carreon: Yeah. So Joe Moore: it's optimistic in, in some sense that psychedelic science is getting funded more. By states. 'cause the feds aren't stepping up. Right. I love that. Right. Yeah. Like, Hey feds, look what we can do. And you can't somehow, and [00:54:00] then, um, we'll see if state rights stays around for a while longer, maybe, maybe not. Joe Moore: And then the other part is like, is there a slippery slope given the rhetoric around addiction and the rise in interest in iboga for compulsory addiction treatment with psychedelics or, or compulsory mental health treatments with psychedelics because of the recent, it's illegal to be a person without housing. Joe Moore: Um, and you're gonna get put in treatment. Mm. Like, that's now a thing. So like, I don't know, I don't think forced treatment's good at all. I, and I don't think like, um, like the data is something like 15% effective, maybe less. Right. Right. It's not a good use of money. I don't know. We're, let's, I. You can go there if you want, and riff on that, or if you wanna talk about like, Texas, um, Arizona more generally. Mary Carreon: Yeah. I mean, I will just say this, I also don't really believe that forced treatment is like good, you [00:55:00] know, data Joe Moore: says it's bad. Mary Carreon: Yeah. Yeah. I also, yeah, I mean, it's like, I don't know. Yeah, that's, it's complex. It's a complex issue. I also don't think it's good, but I also do think that we need a much better framework and foundation for like, if people do want the help, helping them get it. Mary Carreon: Much more easily and in a way that's going to be beneficial for them. Um, and I don't think that that system or that pathway currently exists as we saw in, uh, with, with, um, measure 1 0 9 and the failure of measure 1 0 9 or, or was it Measure 1 0 10, 1 10, measure one 10 in Oregon. Joe Moore: But did you see the response yesterday or two days ago? Joe Moore: No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I'll I'll send it to you later. Okay. So the university did the research, um, Portland State University did the research Yes. And said, Hey, look, there was actually 20 other things that were higher priority. Like that actually influenced this increase in overdoses, not our law. Mary Carreon: Right. Mary Carreon: Yes. It was really COVID for Okay. [00:56:00] Like for, yeah. Right. Absolutely. Also, there was not a. Like there was not a framework in place that allowed people to get off the street should they want to, or you know, like, like you just can't really have a, all drugs are legal, or small amounts of drugs are legal without also offering or creating a structure for people to get help. Mary Carreon: That, that's, you can't do one without the other. Unfortunately. That's just like a, that's faulty from the start. So that's all I'll really say about that. And I don't think that that had fully been implemented yet, even though it was something that wasn't ideal for the, um, for the, for the measure. And I believe it was measure one 10, not measure 1 0 9, to be clear. Mary Carreon: Measure one 10. Um, yes, but confirmed one 10 confirmed one 10, yes. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, uh, that's, you know, that's kind of what I'll say. That's what I'll, that's where I'll leave that portion. Mm-hmm. You know? Uh, but yeah, forced treatment. I don't know. [00:57:00] We can't be forcing, forcing people to do stuff like that. Mary Carreon: I don't know. It's not gonna, it's, yeah, it doesn't seem Joe Moore: very humane. Mary Carreon: Yeah. No. And it also probably isn't gonna work, so, Joe Moore: right. Like, if we're being conservative with money, like, I like tote, like to put on Republican boots once in a while and say like, what does this feel like? And then say like, okay, if we're trying to spend money smartly, like where do we actually get where we want to be? Joe Moore: And then sometimes I put on my cross and I'm like, okay, if I'm trying to be Christian, like where is the most, like, what is the most Christian behavior here in terms of like, what would the, you know, buddy Jesus want to do? And I'm just like, okay, cool. Like, that doesn't seem right. Like those things don't seem to align. Joe Moore: And when we can find like compassionate and efficient things, like isn't that the path? Um, Mary Carreon: compassionate and t. Yeah, even, I don't know, I don't know if it looks lefty these days, but Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Yeah. [00:58:00] Yeah. Um, yeah, it's complicated. It's complicated, you know, but going back, kind of, kind of pivoting and going back to what you were talking about in regards to the subtext, some of the subtext of like, you know, where psychedelic medicine is currently getting its most funding. Mary Carreon: You know, I do believe that that was an undercurrent at psychedelic science. It was the, the iboga conversation. And there's, there's a lot, there's a lot happening with the Iboga conversation and the Iboga conversation and, um, I am really trying to be open to listening to everyone's messages that are currently involved in. Mary Carreon: That rise of that medicine right now? Um, obviously, yeah, we will see, we'll see how it goes. There's obviously a lot of people who believe that this is not the right move, uh, just because there's been no discussions with, uh, the Wii people of West Africa and, you know, because of [00:59:00] that, like we are not talking to the indigenous people about how we are using their medicine, um, or medicine that does like that comes from, that comes from Africa. Mary Carreon: Um, also with that, I know that there is a massive just devastating opioid crisis here that we need to do something about and drug crisis that we need to be helping with. And this medicine is something that can really, really, really help. Um, I find it absolutely fascinating that the right is the most interested party in moving all of this forward, like psychedelic medicine forward. Mary Carreon: And I, I currently have my popcorn and I am watching and I am eating it, and I am going to witness whatever goes down. Um, but I'm, I, I hope that, uh, things are moving in a way that is going to be beneficial for the people and also not completely leave behind the indigenous communities where this medicine comes from. Joe Moore: [01:00:00] Mm-hmm. Mary Carreon: We'll see how it goes. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how it goes. It Joe Moore: would be lovely if we can figure it out. Um, I know, and I think, uh, Lucy Walker has a film coming out on Iboga. Mm. I got to see it at Aspen, um, symposium last summer, and it was really good. Mm. So I'm sure it'll be cut different, but it's so good and it tells that story. Joe Moore: Okay. Um, in a helpful way. I'm gonna, I, yeah. I always say I'm gonna do this. I'm like, if I have space, maybe I'll be able to email her and see if we can screen it in Colorado. But it's like a brilliant film. Yeah. Cool. This whole reciprocity conversation is interesting and challenging. And so challenging being one of the few countries that did not sign onto the Nagoya protocol. Joe Moore: Absolutely. We're not legally bound, you know, some countries are Mary Carreon: I know. Yes, yes, yes. So Joe Moore: we're, you know, how do we do that? How do we do that skillfully? We still haven't done it with, um, first Nations folks around their [01:01:00] substances. Um, I think mushrooms are a little flexible and account of them being global, um, from Africa to Ireland and beyond. Joe Moore: And, but you know, that's, we still want to give a nod to the people in Mexico for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah, it's, I had some fun commentary there that I would love to flesh out someday. Uh, but yeah, it's not for today. Mary Carreon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, there's, yeah, there's obviously, there's obviously a lot with the conversation of reciprocity here and, um, I know, I, I don't know. Mary Carreon: I, I, what I do know is that we need to be listening to the indigenous people, not just listening to them second, like secondhand or listening to them, uh, once we have moved something forward, like actually consulting with them as the process goes. And that, you know, the way that both parties move, indigenous folks and, uh, western folks move, uh, are at inherently different paces. Mary Carreon: And, [01:02:00] um, I just hope, and I wish, and I, I hope, I just hope that, uh, Western what, like the Western party, the western folks who are diving into these medicines. Slow the fuck down and listen and just are able to at least make one right move. Just one, just like you. Like it's, doesn't have to be this, it doesn't have to be that hard. Mary Carreon: Although the pace of capitalism usually propels, uh, the western folks at, at a much quicker rate than, u

Buon venerdì Stupefan! Avete passato un buon agosto? Vi è piaciuta la Summer Edition? Ma soprattutto, siete pronti a tornare all'ordinaria follia del dibattito sulle droghe in Italia? Se non avete vissuto su Marte nelle ultime settimane avete già capito a cosa ci stiamo riferendo: alla questione delle pipe sterili per fumare crack che verranno distribuite dal comune di Bologna. Quando c'è un'iniziativa di riduzione del danno, specie su sostanze che generano isteria collettiva, c'è anche la passerella della rettitudine morale dei non addetti ai lavori. Politici e non che vorrebbero che le persone che usano droghe abbiano - quando consumano - tracheiti, ascessi, ustioni e che non siano protette da malattie trasmissibili come l'epatite C: una gara di pressappochismo e disumanità, travestita da rettitudine. Ne discuteremo, calandoci nel disagio di chi è convinto che fornire un presidio sterile a delle persone, che avrebbero consumato droghe lo stesso, sia una un'iniziativa che incoraggia a usare droghe. Prima del play, suggeriamo un gastroprotettore.Note dell'episodio:- La psilocibina medica in Italia: https://www.ilpost.it/2025/07/12/approvato-test-clinico-psilocibina-depressione-funghi/- Pipe e contesto: https://corrieredibologna.corriere.it/notizie/cronaca/25_agosto_29/crack-e-le-pipe-distribuite-gratis-dal-comune-di-bologna-l-assessora-madrid-ci-muoviamo-nella-piena-legalita-ea537034-20b5-48f0-9f8f-a40ec23c1xlk.shtml- La parola agli operatori: https://www.fuoriluogo.it/speciali/crack/la-luna-e-il-dito-le-verita-sulle-pipe-da-crack/- Carl Hart e le bugie della guerra alla droga: https://socialistworker.org/2013/11/27/challenging-drug-war-lies- A caro prezzo, Carl Hart: https://neripozza.it/libro/9788854517400#:~:text=%C3%88%20il%20magnifico%20memoir%20di,illegali%20oscuri%20i%20veri%20problemi.Entra in contatto con noi usando la mail stupefatticast@gmail.com o seguendo su Instagram il @stupefatti_podcast! Puoi anche iscriverti a STUPEGRAM, il nostro canale telegram, a questo link https://t.me/stupegram!

Carl Hart is Mamie Phipps Clark Professor of Psychology at Columbia University, where he researches the behavioral and neuropharmacological effects of psychoactive drugs in humans. In this wide-ranging conversation, Robinson and Carl discuss drugs from many different angles, touching on the neuroscience of addiction, the opioid crisis, drugs' connections to poverty, the roles they can play in a creative life, and more. Carl's most recent book is Drug Use for Grown-Ups (2021, Penguin).Drug Use for Grown-Ups: https://a.co/d/efgXuJKOUTLINE00:00:49 Introduction00:03:14 What Is a Drug?00:14:58 DARE and Drug Education00:26:07 Rodrigo Duterte and the Drug War in the Philippines00:39:25 Studying Drugs in the Lab00:49:07 Does Addiction Change the Brain?00:58:12 On the Opioid Crisis01:10:42 How Should We Solve the Opioid Crisis?01:14:01 What Is the Connection Between Drugs and Poverty?01:18:21 How Do Drugs Affect the Brain?01:28:27 How Can Drugs Improve Your Creativity?01:36:04 Should Science Inform Drug Policy?Robinson's Website: http://robinsonerhardt.comRobinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University, where is also a student in the Law School.

Explore the intersection of drugs, power, and narrative warfare in America in this must-watch episode of High Level Conversations!

Owen Flanagan's newest book details his 20-year dependence on alcohol and pills — and outlines his research on what addiction can tell us about the nature of consciousness. SOURCES:Owen Flanagan, philosopher, neurobiologist, and professor emeritus at Duke University. RESOURCES:What Is It Like to Be an Addict?: Understanding Substance Abuse, by Owen Flanagan (2025).Consciousness Reconsidered, by Owen Flanagan (1993).Against Happiness, by Owen Flanagan, Joseph E. LeDoux, Bobby Bingle, Daniel M. Haybron, Batja Mesquita, Michele Moody-Adams, Songyao Ren, Anna Sun, and Yolonda Y. Wilson. (2023).The Bodhisattva's Brain: Buddhism Naturalized, by Owen Flanagan (2013).The Really Hard Problem: Meaning in a Material World, by Owen Flanagan (2009).Big Book, by Alcoholics Anonymous."Impact of the DSM-IV to DSM-5 Changes on the National Survey on Drug Use and Health," by Cristie Glasheen, Kathryn Batts, Rhonda Karg, Jonaki Bose, Sarra Hedden, and Kathryn Piscopo (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 2016). EXTRAS:"Professor Carl Hart Argues All Drugs Should Be Legal — Can He Convince Steve?" by People I (Mostly) Admire (2021).Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear, by Carl Hart (2021).

SPONSORS: 1) Get 15% off with code JULIAN at oneskin.co 2) Rocket Money: Go to www.rocketmoney.com/julian to start saving today! (***TIMESTAMPS in the description below) ~ Katarina Szulc is a Mexico-based freelance journalist focused on reporting on Cartel Activity. PATREON https://www.patreon.com/JulianDorey FOLLOW JULIAN DOREY INSTAGRAM (Podcast): https://www.instagram.com/juliandoreypodcast/ INSTAGRAM (Personal): https://www.instagram.com/julianddorey/ X: https://twitter.com/julianddorey GUEST LINKS Substack: https://katarinaszulc.substack.com/?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=3h3gxb X: https://x.com/katarinaszulc?lang=en YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@katarinaszulc/featured Instagram: https://katarinaszulc.substack.com/?utm_source=navbar&utm_medium=web&r=3h3gxb ****TIMESTAMPS**** 00:00 - Katarina Getting into Journalism, Mayor of Sinaloa & New Female President Controversial 16:11 - Katarina's First Journalist Job, Reporting on Child Murders (Heavy Story) 25:09 - Moving to Mexico to Report on Cartels, 1st Time Reporting on Cartels 32:45 - First Female President (Cartel Associated) Story 38:14 - History of the Mexican Cartel, Mayo vs Chapitos Cartel Turf War 44:17 - Typical Day for a Cartel Journalist in Sinaloa Territory, Ruining Citizen's Lives 58:38 - Chapito's Cartel (White Hat) Openly Corrupt Police/Military 01:01:33 - News Outlet Shot Up Story, Corrupt Politicians in Mexico Targeting Journalists 01:14:02 - Cartel Sensational Violence and Widespread Network, Canada's Drug Issues 01:22:27 - Cartel Workers Who Leave (Why?), Source Who Knew El Mayo Was Done 01:29:03 - Cartel Entering Canada & Current Canadian Border Crisis, Investigating Trap 01:38:14 - Canadian Dr&g Mule Controversy, Matt Cox & Threshold for Crime, Luis Navia Greatest 01:52:07 - Recruiting Cartel Smugglers, Fentanyl Ink Book, Chinese Influence in America/Canada 02:01:06 - Most Desirable Dr&gs on the Market, Cartel's Pushing this Drug!, Carl Hart 02:11:13 - Who Was El Mayo 02:22:03 - Leaf Lets Cartel Story (Hotline Number), CIA Connection 02:32:41 - Atrocities of Border Smuggling & Multiple Bodies, The Future of the Cartel Business 02:39:41 - Katarina's Future Journalist Work CREDITS: - Host, Producer, and Editor: Julian Dorey - In-Studio Producer: Alessi Allaman - https://www.instagram.com/allaman.docyou/ Julian Dorey Podcast Episode 264 - Katarina Szulc Music by Artlist.io Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Carl Hart is a neuroscientist at Columbia University who researches drugs and their effects on the human brain. After decades of research, Hart concluded that drugs aren't nearly as dangerous as we're taught to believe. Since then, he's published best-selling books like "High Price" and "Drug Use for Grown Ups" that share his findings on drug and also his personal history of drug use, including his current use of h*roin. In this episode, he shares his views about overcounted drug deaths, morphine vs. heroin, adderall vs. meth, the opioid crisis myth, Prohibition, the crack cocaine epidemic that never was, and so much more.   As is tradition on We The 66, we like to hear a range of viewpoints. After our conversation with Ben Westhoff, the author of "Fentanyl Inc.," we thought it would be valuable to hear an alternative viewpoint. 0:00 - Preview 0:01:35 - Carl Hart intro 0:03:15 - CARL HART INTERVIEW 0:04:10 - Carl Hart's story 0:10:00 - Opioid crisis a myth? 0:22:55 - Truth about addiction 0:26:56 - American to do drugs? 0:37:25 - Myth of Anthony Bourdain 0:40:10 - Politicization of drugs 0:48:25 - Who shouldn't take drugs? 0:56:20 - Drug trials with illegal drugs 1:02:36 - Carl on Kamala Harris 1:08:21 - BACKEND SEGMENTS 1:10:30 - Watch Read Listen 1:16:48 - Frost trivia 1:22:00 - Farewell Max F's "Watch Read Listen" recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Vietnam-Tragedy-1945-1975-Max-Hastings/dp/0062405667 Max T's "Watch Read Listen" recommendation: https://www.city-journal.org/article/the-march-of-dimes-syndrome Please comment your thoughts / questions or email us at wethe66@rocanews.com.

I'm sure you've heard about the largest transfer of wealth in human history. You have all these baby boomers who are exiting the workforce and passing on their wealth to the millennials and Gen z's. But often, they are not interested in Mom and Dad's business. So, you need private equity firms to come in and sort this all out. I can't think of a better guest to talk about this than Francoise Mattice and Carl Hart from Millbank Capital.

What the ‘decade of the brain' taught us about drug addiction. (Hint, we had it all wrong before.) Up Next ► “Drug use is your BIRTHRIGHT”  Thanks largely to the "War on Drugs," we have been led to believe that drug addiction is the source of most of the problems that we see in our communities. But much of what we have been told about drugs is pure nonsense. For example, most people who use drugs do not become addicted. To determine if someone is addicted, we should analyze someone's behavior, rather than their brain. Dr. Carl Hart, professor of psychology, believes that society's drug problems need to be understood within a greater psychosocial context, such as lack of opportunity, education, and healthcare. ------------------------------------------ About Big Think | Smarter Faster™ ► Big Think The leading source of expert-driven, educational content. With thousands of videos, featuring experts ranging from Bill Clinton to Bill Nye, Big Think helps you get smarter, faster by exploring the big ideas and core skills that define knowledge in the 21st century. Go Deeper with Big Think: ►Become a Big Think Member Get exclusive access to full interviews, early access to new releases, Big Think merch and more ►Get Big Think+ for Business Guide, inspire and accelerate leaders at all levels of your company with the biggest minds in business ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- About Dr. Carl Hart: Dr. Hart is an Associate Professor of Psychology in both the Departments of Psychiatry and Psychology at Columbia University, and Director of the Residential Studies and Methamphetamine Research Laboratories at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. A major focus of Dr. Hart's research is to understand complex interactions between drugs of abuse and the neurobiology and environmental factors that mediate human behavior and physiology. He is the author or co-author of dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles in the area of neuropsychopharmacology, co-author of the textbook, Drugs, Society, and Human Behavior, and a member of a NIH review group. Dr. Hart was recently elected to Fellow status by the American Psychological Association (Division 28) for his outstanding contribution to the field of psychology, specifically psychopharmacology and substance abuse. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Columbia Professor Carl Hart breaks taboos surrounding drug use in America. The U.S. was founded on the principles of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So, why does the government prohibit Americans from altering their state of consciousness with drugs it has deemed illegal? After all, drug prohibition has not only proven ineffective and unjust in many cases, but it also impinges on one's right to live life as they see fit. It restricts liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Given these inconsistencies between principle and policy, what role should the U.S. government play, if any, in regulating mind-altering substances as we move forward into the 21st century? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- About Dr. Carl Hart: Dr. Hart is an Associate Professor of Psychology in both the Departments of Psychiatry and Psychology at Columbia University, and Director of the Residential Studies and Methamphetamine Research Laboratories at the New York State Psychiatric Institute. A major focus of Dr. Hart's research is to understand complex interactions between drugs of abuse and the neurobiology and environmental factors that mediate human behavior and physiology. He is the author or co-author of dozens of peer-reviewed scientific articles in the area of neuropsychopharmacology, co-author of the textbook, Drugs, Society, and Human Behavior, and a member of a NIH review group. Dr. Hart was recently elected to Fellow status by the American Psychological Association (Division 28) for his outstanding contribution to the field of psychology, specifically psychopharmacology and substance abuse. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- About Big Think | Smarter Faster™ ► Big Think The leading source of expert-driven, educational content. With thousands of videos, featuring experts ranging from Bill Clinton to Bill Nye, Big Think helps you get smarter, faster by exploring the big ideas and core skills that define knowledge in the 21st century. Go Deeper with Big Think: ►Become a Big Think Member Get exclusive access to full interviews, early access to new releases, Big Think merch and more ►Get Big Think+ for Business Guide, inspire and accelerate leaders at all levels of your company with the biggest minds in business Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carl Hart, Chair of the Columbia University Psychology Department, is back with his latest research into what he calls “drug use by grown-ups”.

In this episode, Joe interviews Devon Phillips: community & partnerships officer for the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS). Phillips works on strategies to tackle the questions: How do we responsibly mainstream psychedelics? And how do we get culture engaged? He's focusing on being the bridge to psychedelics outside of research, facilitating workshops and psychedelic coming-out stories at music festivals and conferences. He talks about harm reduction and drug checking at festivals, the concept of training big names to become trustworthy resources, the differences found in a hop hop crowd compared to EDM, and the power in using psychedelics for pleasure and celebration – not just healing and growth.  He also discusses:  MAPS' involvement with the NFL for their 'My Cause, My Cleats' campaign, and how the San Francisco 49ers' Jon Feliciano is bringing awareness to psychedelic healing Details about MAPS' first responders training, fiscal sponsorship program, international therapist education program, and upcoming membership program (launching in June) The success of MAPS' Psychedelic Science and his hopes for the 2024 edition, taking place June 16 - 20 at the Denver Convention Center Dr. Carl Hart, drug exceptionalism, and the importance of creating safe containers and inclusive drug policy  and more! For links and more, head to the show notes page.

What if the story of our origins is rooted in lies? What if our accepted societal understanding of our past is wrong? Is it possible that much of our suffering is the result of living life from an erroneous playbook? No other sees more clearly the trappings of BS Inc. than Dr. Chris Ryan. He shares loads of real-talk about the dire challenges confronting our human family and inspires us with a hopeful vision of a future more aligned with our past.    Chris Ryan PhD #104 Show Notes: We Discuss;   -Imbalanced view of the cost of civilization [6:00] -Dr. Ryan's experiences with psychedelics and how they've informed his path [12:25] -Caution about the intersection of psychedelics and commerce [17:30] -Inspiration for writing “Civilized to Death”. Thomas Hobbes “Human life before the state, was solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short” Bullshit Inc. Lies. [19:20] -Bonobos & Chimps: Our evolutionary roots [30:00] -VET on Tangentially Speaking in 2017 [37:00] -Oregon's Psilocybin Initiative [40:00] -Industrial Addiction Recovery Complex: Our erroneous viewpoint of addiction [46:20]   Helpful Resources: “The Moral Animal” -Robert Wright “Drug Use For Grown-Ups” Dr. Carl Hart  “Fearvana” - Akshay Nanavati    Matt & Ryan on Tangentially Speaking in 2017: https://chrisryanphd.com/266-ryan-lecompte-matt-simpson-vet/ Connect with Dr. Chris Ryan and check out his pioneering work HERE   https://chrisryanphd.com Tangentially Speaking  “Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality” “Civilized to Death: The Price of Progress”    Worth The Fight Links: IG: @worththefightbook Worth The Fight book: Purchase your copy on Amazon, Kindle, or Audible    Worth The Fight podcast iTunes easy review link   Matt's 1-on-1 Worthy Fight Empowerment Coaching  

I wrote 40 e-mails to Carl Hart to ask him for a podcast. and I would have written 50.To me he is one of the most fascinating scientist that came on the radar in the context of the psychedelic renaissance a few years ago. Finally two weeks ago, I was able to talk to him at Neue House in New York. Dr. Carl L. Hart, Ziff Professor at Columbia University and former chair of the Department of Psychology. is is one of the world's preeminent experts on the effects of so-called recreational drugs on the human mind and body. Dr. Carl Hart is open about the fact that he uses drugs himself, in a happy balance with the rest of his full and productive life as a researcher and professor, husband, father, and friend. In his book Drug Use for Grown-Ups, Hart draws on decades of research and his own personal experience to argue definitively that the criminalization and demonization of drug use--not drugs themselves--have been a tremendous scourge on America, not least in reinforcing this country's enduring structural racism.Dr. Hart did not always have this view. He came of age in one of Miami's most troubled neighborhoods at a time when many ills were being laid at the door of crack cocaine. His initial work as a researcher was aimed at proving that drug use caused bad outcomes. But one problem kept cropping up: the evidence from his research did not support his hypothesis. From inside the massively well-funded research arm of the American war on drugs, he saw how the facts did not support the ideology. The truth was dismissed and distorted in order to keep fear and outrage stoked, the funds rolling in, and Black and brown bodies behind bars. "Drug Use for Grown-Ups" is controversial, but Carl's way of talking about the war on drugs and how it brought us here where we are in terms of body autonomy, is fascinating. In this podcast we discuss all kinds of things around drugs, but mainly we talk about the autonomy of body and mind.https://psychology.columbia.edu/content/carl-harthttps://drcarlhart.com/https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/534657/drug-use-for-grown-ups-by-dr-carl-l-hart/IG: @carlhart Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

From one of the world's foremost experts on the subject, a powerful argument that the greatest damage from drugs flows from their being illegal, and a hopeful reckoning with the possibility of their use as part of a responsible and happy life. Michael talks with Dr. Carl Hart, Professor at Columbia University, about his book "Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear."

The ex-wife turned your son against you because you called the cops when her daughter was caught on camera stealing from you. Welcome to Feedback Friday! And in case you didn't already know it, Jordan Harbinger (@JordanHarbinger) and Gabriel Mizrahi (@GabeMizrahi) banter and take your comments and questions for Feedback Friday right here every week! If you want us to answer your question, register your feedback, or tell your story on one of our upcoming weekly Feedback Friday episodes, drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com. Now let's dive in! On This Week's Feedback Friday, We Discuss: The ex-wife manipulated your son against you because you called the cops when her daughter was caught on camera stealing from you. Now he refuses to talk to you. What can you do? Is there a way to accept the job offer two states over that pays $60,000 more than you were making while sharing custody of your 16-year-old daughter who graduates in 18 months? Ever since you were young, networking and building relationships have made you uncomfortable, and you've always felt like you're inconveniencing people by contacting them. You think it may have to do with time spent around a volatile, negative sister during your formative years. How can you overcome this? Dr. Carl Hart claims that drugs like heroin, crack cocaine, and crystal meth can, when used responsibly, enhance a person's life in a variety of ways, such as helping married couples become closer. Well, in spite of losing your mother to heroin six years ago, you thought you might benefit from giving it a try — to disastrous results. While you're currently in recovery, you wanted to share your story with others to spare them from making the same mistake based on this "expert's" advice. Working at a large company, you're sick of watching so many others around you get promoted while you continue to languish in the middle ranks. And ever since failing to pass a grueling interview gauntlet for a leadership position, your morale has been drained. How can you heal this emotional wound? Have any questions, comments, or stories you'd like to share with us? Drop us a line at friday@jordanharbinger.com! Connect with Jordan on Twitter at @JordanHarbinger and Instagram at @jordanharbinger. Connect with Gabriel on Twitter at @GabeMizrahi and Instagram @gabrielmizrahi. Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/945 This Episode Is Brought To You By Our Fine Sponsors: jordanharbinger.com/deals Sign...

Professor Carl Hart is an expert in the fields of neuropsychopharmacology and behavioral neuroscience. A longtime champion for evidence-based drug policies, Hart has written a number of influential books in the field. His newest is "Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear".

We have returning guest KN Dot in the studio today as we discuss his music, the trend of trap, how booty music reigns supreme, the benefits of LSD, Carl Hart & the stereotypes around heroin use, religion, and more! ==== LINKS KN DOT Music: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6pkzIB6qYMyF8N7xGdtcU8?si=7bIQ2WUWQ_a6QIHDdTRV4g Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kndot25/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@kndot25?lang=en YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoUa2euJ7bI1vEif9a99FRA ==== LINKS ====== THE CHRONIC CRUSADERS = Donation Link: https://gofund.me/8acf1c23 Website: www.mcallisterhours.com Main Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMcAllisterHours Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3kkuLRVsVJLi22RALUkNRh?si=6c663608a0744da1 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-mcallister-hours-podcast/id1509329541 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mcallisterhours?lang=en Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/mcallisterhours?fan_landing=true Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mcallisterhours/ Discord: https://discord.gg/BZraY34JKX Rumble: https://rumble.com/c/c-739237 ====== Make sure to check out our other podcasts in the network... Unhinged & Uncensored Podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Unhingedanduncensored The Guts N' Gore Podcast: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@GutsNGorePodcast Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2irezhOmGaf2SqRF6gLA6z?si=c332e043d6d44c19 ====== Sponsored by Stutterbox Productions: https://www.facebook.com/StutterboxProductions

Original Episode Link: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/episode/2Ohm79xyAa3X4WeOb3S3PH?si=8704292318e74ac7⁠ Support this show and show some love to our sponsor, Burly Brandz, by using the code 'fast15' for 15% off at ⁠www.burlybrandz.com.⁠ Connect with Zach: Twitter | ⁠https://twitter.com/z_nix_?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠ Instagram | ⁠https://www.instagram.com/zachnx/⁠ Facebook | ⁠https://www.facebook.com/zach.nx⁠ Connect with Noah: Twitter | ⁠https://twitter.com/noahreeves315?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠ Instagram | ⁠https://www.instagram.com/noah.reeves96/⁠ Facebook |⁠ https://www.facebook.com/noah.reeves⁠ Subscribe to The Big Chew Podcast Twitter | ⁠https://twitter.com/thebigchewpod?s=11&t=yAFtZJcxm29lxslu7pwseA⁠ Instagram Meme Page | the_big_chew_memes ⁠https://instagram.com/the_big_chew_memes?igshid=Y2I2MzMwZWM3ZA==⁠ Instagram | the.big.chew.podcast ⁠https://instagram.com/the.big.chew.podcast?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==⁠ Popular ways to listen: Apple Podcast: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-big-chew/id1608218162⁠ Spotify | ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/4hsYkpfaJdBCYa8qmTmNq3?si=8d2922dc71ba4cdc⁠ Send in a voice message: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bigchew/message⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/bigchew/message

On today's episode, we have harm-reduction therapist and co-founder of Alchemy Community Therapy Center, Irina Alexander (She/Her), join us for a conversation about the need to deconstruct the messaging we have been sold about drugs and step into a research-backed understanding. Together we talk about how larger systems impact our drug use, the importance of community connection, and coming out of the psychedelic closet. If you enjoyed today's podcast, then please subscribe, leave a review, or share this podcast with a friend! To learn more, head over to the website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.modernanarchypodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ And if you want to connect deeper with the Modern Anarchy Family, then join the movement by becoming a part of the conscious objectors ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Your support is what powers this work and the larger societal change we are creating! Let's continue to challenge our assumptions and grow together. Join the community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/user?u=54121384⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Intro and Outro Song: Wild Wild Woman by Your Smith Modern Anarchy Community: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : www.modernanarchypodcast.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : https://www.instagram.com/modernanarchypodcast ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : https://www.patreon.com/user?u=54121384 Irina's Community: Irina is a co-founder and Clinical Director of Alchemy Community Therapy Center (alchemytherapy.org), a sliding scale psychedelic therapy clinic in Oakland, as well as a street-based harm reduction therapist with the Harm Reduction Therapy Center in San Francisco. Irina has a long history in direct service work, and believes in the healing capacity of showing up for each other, individually and as a community. She feels passionate about making psychedelic healing services more equitable and accessible to underserved communities. Irina has volunteered for several years as a supervisor with the Zendo Project, and is currently also working as an Adherence Rater for MDMA Clinical Trials.  Ketamine Therapy Provider Training : https://www.alchemytherapy.org/licensedtraining Alchemy Community Therapy Center: https://www.alchemytherapy.org/ Resources to Learn More: Sana Healing Collective : https://sanahealingcollective.org/ Rat Park : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9DcIMGxMs&t=14s Drug Decriminalization in Portugal : https://fherehab.com/news/portugal-lowest-drug-rate#:~:text=Portugal%3A%20The%20Country%20with%20the%20Lowest%20Drug%20Overdose%20Rates Dr. Carl Hart : https://bookshop.org/a/88413/9781101981665 Stages of Change : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVyhhMzWkiU Motivational Interviewing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iBPeZjjuYU

David Goodman talks about his book, An American Cannabis Story about Puffin Farm in Washington State. And Carl Hart discusses Drug Use For Grownups: Chasing Liberty In The Land of Fear.

Dr. Carl Hart was a guest on our podcast earlier this year. Here is the link to the episode, in case you missed it. Dr. Hart contacted us last week with some very exciting news! He asked us to help him co-edit a medical journal. This is such a huge opportunity and we are grateful we will be able to bring attention to the suffering of CPP's. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/the-doctor-patient-forum/message

Welcome to the Green Rush, a KCSA Strategic Communications Production, a weekly conversation at the intersection of cannabis, psychedelics, the capital markets and culture.  This week's episode is another conversation from Psychedelic Science 2023, the world's largest ever conference celebrating advancements in psychedelic research and culture. On today's episode, our hosts Anne Donohoe and Lewis Goldberg connect with special guest Dr. Carl Hart, Ziff Professor of Psychology (in Psychiatry) at Columbia University Irving Medical Center. Dr. Hart joins us to share his point of view on drugs, addiction, the state of the psychedelics movement, his new role on the MAPS board and more. If you are interested in learning more about the breakthrough psychedelic conference PS 2023 and its host, Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), visit the links in our show notes. Also, be sure to follow Dr. Hart, MAPS and Psychedelic Science on LinkedIn and Twitter. So sit back and enjoy our conversation with Dr. Carl Hart of Columbia University Irving Medical Center.  Links and mentions in the show http://psychedelicscience.org/ https://maps.org/ https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/ Links to the guest's company and social media accounts Psychedelic Science Twitter: https://twitter.com/psychedelicsci Psychedelic Science Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/psychedelicscience/ MAPS LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mapsnews/ MAPS Twitter: https://twitter.com/MAPS Dr. Carl Hart LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carl-hart-9471b1129 Dr. Carl Hart Twitter: https://twitter.com/drcarlhart Show Credits: This episode was hosted by Anne Donohoe and Lewis Goldberg of KCSA Strategic Communications.  Special thanks to our Program Director Shea Gunther. You can learn more about how KCSA can help your cannabis and psychedelic companies by visiting www.kcsa.com or emailing greenrush@kcsa.com. You can also connect with us via our social channels: Twitter: @The_GreenRush  Instagram: @thegreenrush_podcast LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thegreenrushpodcast/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheGreenRushPodcast/  YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuEQkvdjpUnPyhF59wxseqw?disable_polymer=true

  Pervasive misconceptions about and bias against drug use in the United States have led to clinical norms that pathologize any use of certain kinds of drugs. This bias has harmful consequences. For instance, conflating substance use with substance disorder is used to justify curtailing certain people's rights, which has broad consequences. Treating drug use as a brain disease reveals clinician bias. How can these misconceptions, and the actions they lead to, be corrected? And how can researchers and policymakers demystify drug use?    This episode of Under the Cortex features Carl Hart, a neuroscientist at Columbia University who has studied the behavioral and neuropharmacological effects of psychoactive drugs in humans. His lab attempts to understand factors that mediate drug use, to develop effective treatments, and to translate that knowledge into more humane drug policies.     In May, Carl spoke about some of his findings in a very popular presentation at the 2023 APS Annual Convention titled “Clinician Bias About Drug Use Contributes to Growing Restrictions on Liberty and Bodily Autonomy.” He explained how the inclination to think that any use of a certain drug, like cocaine or heroine, is pathological reveals a clinician bias. This conversation, with APS's Ludmila Nunes, was recorded on-site at the convention shortly after Carl delivered his presentation.    

In this episode of the Psychedelic Medicine Podcast, Kevin Franciotti, MA joins to discuss the intricacies of psychedelic-assisted therapies for substance use disorder. Kevin Franciotti is a Denver-based writer, therapist, advisor, and thought leader in the fields of psychology, psychedelics, and substance abuse counseling. In this conversation, Kevin shares his expertise on the existing research on psychedelic medicines for substance use disorder (SUD) and also discusses the limitations of the results of this research. He talks about the difficulties of designing trials and protocols for psychedelic therapies that target SUD, touching on how this disorder can interact with the neuro-physical and psychological effects of psychedelic medicines. He also contrasts emerging psychedelic treatments for SUD with dominant abstinence-based models and shares where he thinks psychedelic therapies may be a healthier alternative. In closing, Kevin reiterates that it is crucial to continue integrating harm reduction perspectives as psychedelic therapy continues to gain more mainstream traction.   In this episode: Contraindications which can arise during detox periods which may require a person to be fully detoxed prior to pursuing any psychedelic-assisted therapy for SUD The neuro-physical effects and the psychological effects of psychedelic substances The role of peer support in psychedelic-assisted therapy for SUD The stigma around psychedelic therapies within traditional recovery programs and communities How psychedelic therapy protocols interface with current guidelines from the American Society of Addiction Medicine The future of insurance coverage for psychedelic therapies Issues of “psychedelic exceptionalism”   Quotes: “Ibogaine has somewhat of a miraculous quality of being able to attenuate some of the most painful, acute symptoms of opiate withdrawal—but that is only specific to opiate withdrawal.” [11:33] “What's miraculous about a medicine like ibogaine or even psilocybin… is it's designed to enhance somebody's ability to confront their underlying issues.” [16:57]  “The future of addiction treatment embracing psychedelics is really going to hinge on the treatment industry being willing to construct innovative ideas.” [30:37] “Drugs are drugs. Drugs don't have an inherent moral quality around them. [What's important to highlight] is the risk of stratifying people who use drugs as somehow being superior or inferior based on which category of socially accepted drugs that they're doing.” [42:39]   Links: Kevin's website Kevin on Twitter Kevin on Instagram Kevin on LinkedIn Psychedelics in Recovery Journey Colab All Points North (APN) “Dispelling Lies the Psychedelic Community Believes About Drugs” presentation by Carl Hart, PhD at Horizons 2019 Psychedelic Medicine Association Porangui

The public's perception of drugs and drug use is changing. And with it, the decrim movement is in full swing. Soon the FDA is expected to approve psychedelic-assisted therapy. But are these steps enough for Black people in America? Enough to keep us safe in a world of racial bias and over-policing? There's the potential for liberation but also for oppression. Episode 6 explores what could happen if psychedelics become legal. Wise Ones: Dr. Carl Hart, Neuroscientist; Natalie Ginsberg, Global Impact Officer, MAPS. We want to hear what you think about Truth Be Told! You can help us out by filling out a short audience survey at deartbt.com/survey.

We are joined by Meghann Perry from 'REVOLUTION Recovery' to discuss the  the fundamental issue with viewing a patient as a subject / object / recipient / commodity and the victim blaming mentality that is helping no one. We explore the repeated trauma of 'In-take', how substances don't always cause addiction and the obvious - but often unsaid truth - that the desire for substances often comes from a need for fun, joy or a sense of community. We also discuss why the stories we tell ourselves are so important vs. the stories that are told about us by others and the importance of play. Part 2 of this conversation is a patron only episode. Become a patron at patreon.com/itsnotjustinyourhead to gain early access to episodes, our discord server, and monthly reading/discussion groups. References: REVOLUTION Recovery - Storytelling | Theatre | Recovery Coaching | Education: meghannperry.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/meghann.perry.5/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meghannperryrecoverystorytelling/ The Urge by Carl Erik Fisher: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/57925153-the-urge?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=zUQDUL6Alx&rank=1 Chasing the Scream by Johann Hari: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22245552-chasing-the-scream?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=3hC7Xbro3L&rank=3 Unbroken Brain and Undoing Drugs by Maia Szalavitz: https://maiasz.com/books/unbroken-brain/ The Biology of Desire by Marc Lewis: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23214265-the-biology-of-desire?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=ObgpPxal4p&rank=1 In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts by Gabor Mate: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/617702.In_the_Realm_of_Hungry_Ghosts?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=Ply1l1D8FC&rank=5 Drug Use for Grownups by Carl Hart: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53481723-drug-use-for-grown-ups -- Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/itsnotjustinyourhead Email us with feedback, questions, suggestions at itsnotjustinyourhead@gmail.com. -- Harriet's other shows: WBAI Interpersonal Update (Wednesdays): https://wbai.org/program.php?program=431 Capitalism Hits Home: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPJpiw1WYdTNYvke-gNRdml1Z2lwz0iEH -- ATTENTION! This is a Boring Dystopia/Obligatory 'don't sue us' message: This podcast provides numerous different perspectives and criticisms of the mental health space, however, it should not be considered medical advice. Please consult your medical professional with regards to any health decisions or management. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/itsnotjustinyourhead/message

Last year while I was working with Zendo at Burning Man, I got to hear Dr. Carl Hart talk about “psychedelic exceptionalism.” Essentially, he talked about some concerning language he's noticed in psychedelic-focused conversations. These narratives are creating “psychedelic exceptionalism” that, in his opinion, perpetuate harmful narratives around stigmatized drugs like heroin, methamphetamine, and crack cocaine - and indirectly, the people who choose to use them. Psychedelic exceptionalism refers to the perspective that psychedelics are somehow better and more useful than other classes of drugs like opioids or stimulants. Especially when it comes to recreational use of these substances. Trust me, when I first heard him say that I was like… but… psychedelics ARE more beneficial! But after listening to him talk and speaking with him afterward, I realized that one of the main points of encouraging people to take a step back and try to have a different perspective is that ALL drugs are psychoactive. So it would be remiss to say that some are special and some are evil. Or that psychedelics get glorified while others have been demoralized since the War on Drugs. When we choose to think this way - that some drugs can be vilified (along with those who choose to use them) - we end up with harsher penalties and increased marginalization. That creates more separation between us as humans. For example, MDMA and methamphetamine have very similar chemical structures. Yet we have very different images of those drugs and the people who use them. And those who have a drug of choice that they want to encourage for medicinal reasons get nervous about being stigmatized with other drugs. Of course, all of this blew my mind at the time, but I think as a culture it would behoove many of us in modern industrialized society to get really curious about things. Sit in discomfort. Notice if we have resistance and where that is, and soften the edges a little and consider… What IF this were true? Dr. Hart goes on to emphasize that what's important is that we do what's right as a human being, for human beings. A humanitarian perspective. We all are doing the same thing - wanting to alter our consciousness to feel better and suffer less. Because life can be hard, and we all want to feel better. So if we judge some people who do that with one drug vs another, even if they don't have much choice about what they have access to, we aren't respecting other people's humanity. Now, as a nurse and someone who has worked in rural and underserved areas, I have seen how horrific the opioid crisis can be. So how can someone say mushrooms aren't any better than heroin or fentanyl? Dr. Hart says, “it's not up to me to decide what drug people use. If they choose heroin over mushrooms, that's their decision as autonomous adults.” Plus, if we're talking about paranoia at large doses, mushrooms are more dangerous. And while opioids can produce a physical dependence more easily than mushrooms, alcohol can too. Yet the vast majority of people in the country don't have a big problem with alcohol, and it's legal. I love that in one interview with NPR, Dr. Hart says it's always disturbed him when people identify themselves as a “psychedelic community.” That people are all taking some psychoactive substance for the same mind-altering reason, but then we draw a line with which drugs are better than others. One critique I've read about Dr. Hart's views in a Harvard Law Blog wonders, if we toss all drugs together in one big basket… isn't that a bit reductionist? Like psilocybin mushrooms have a relatively great safety profile and high potential as a therapeutic intervention. Especially in the context of the mental health challenges so many are facing today. On the other hand, we can't completely ignore the harms of NOT addressing the decriminalization of non-psychedelic substances. The author agrees that the War on Drugs is “racist, ineffective, and draconian.” I encourage you to listen to the full episode to hear the examples I give on this, but the psychedelic decriminalization we're seeing in multiple states can pave the way for larger drug reform that will address these disparities. The author of the blog goes on to talk about how we can reschedule controlled substances to help reduce stigmatization and allow for further research and uniform regulation for medical and - as appropriate - adult use purposes. Another interesting perspective, right? And I think, once again, I will likely find myself landing in the middle. Because I can see how both of these views overlap like a venn diagram… that mandorla… where no matter how much we'd feel safer on one side than the other, it's the place most of humanity's experience takes place - in the middle. What do you think? When you explore ehipassiko, the Buddhist concept of “come see for yourself,” what does your inner guru think of these ideas? And, if we can get out of our heads and into our heart (carrying the wise mind with us), what do you think would be the more compassionate approach for humanity? You will learn:// The definition of “psychedelic exceptionalism”// How we can look at the opioid crisis with a more humanitarian view// The potential benefits - and problems - with psychedelic exceptionalism// Whether decriminalizing psychedelics can really pave the way for larger drug reform Resources:// Episode 52: How to Live in Polarity // Episode 97: Psychedelics and Spiritual Practice // Episode 122: Come See for Yourself - Ehipassiko // Episode 152: Sensitivity and Addiction // Harvard Law's Bill of Health, “The Myth of Psychedelic Exceptionalism.”  // Interview in Psychedelics Today: “Psychedelic Exceptionalism and Reframing Drug Narratives: An Interview with Dr. Carl Hart” // NPR Interview: “'Drug Use For Grown-Ups' Serves As An Argument For Personal Choice” // If you're new to the squad, grab the Rebel Buddhist Toolkit I created at RebelBuddhist.com. It has all you need to start creating a life of more freedom, adventure, and purpose. You'll also get access to the Rebel Buddhist private group, and tune in every Wednesday as I go live with new inspiration and topics.      // Want something more self-paced with access to weekly group support and getting coached by yours truly? Check out Freedom School – the community for ALL things related to freedom, inside and out. Learn more at JoinFreedomSchool.com. I can't wait to see you there!    // Want to join me for the next cohort of the Adventure Mastermind? Visit AdventureMastermind.com to get on the waitlist to be the first to hear about the next dates and locations. If you've already done the mastermind, stay tuned for a special alumni retreat. We'll pick up right where we left off and dive even deeper!

We know that genes play a role in transmitting a predisposition to addictions, but it's often that it's the capacity of the chances of becoming addicted are passed on. This is where our degree of sensitivity can come in. The more sensitive (or vulnerable) a person is, the more suffering they experience when painful events happen - and the more hurt we humans are, the more we naturally want to escape that pain...and this can sometimes be via addictive behaviors.  While there's no definitive causal link in the research between being high sensitivity and addictive behavior, there's certainly a suggestion of a connection, or correlation. It's definitely been true in my own experience and observations in my clinical practice. Up to 30% of people are Highly Sensitive Persons (HSPs). HSPs are born with a very sensitive nervous system - one that takes in and processes LOTS of information. This means they tend to notice all. the. things., and their brains end up working overtime to process it all, resulting in overwhelm. While this sensitivity can be a great thing that allows HSPs to have a high level of emotional intelligence and can be very creative, it can also be potentially exhausting.  Since HSPs often experience the world as overstimulaiton, they - like other humans - will often seek a way to turn it off. Empaths may do this too when they become overwhelmed when they feel too much - either their pain or another's. Then there are those of us who may not have a diagnosis or classification of HSP or Empath but who still self-identify as a more sensitive type and will also have more of a chance of developing behavior to cope with pain. One of the common very human ways of doing so is by escaping from, erasing, or numbing it… which can lead to (you guessed it) addictive behaviors. And it's not just our genes or our sensitivities and vulnerabilities that can play a role. Our environment also is a HUGE factor, which is good news, because we can do something about the environment.  When it comes to healing addiction, we need to create for ourselves the healing environment that we didn't get when we were younger. Especially if we are sensitive - even more environmental considerations need to be taken into account. Us wild and whacky humans are either going to try to soothe our pain through external means - via codependency, being addicted to love, by doing a substance… OR we learn to stay with our pain without trying to compensate for it, because addictions are all an attempt to compensate for pain. To lessen it.Dr. Carl Hart, a professor of psychology and psychiatry at Columbia and author of Drug Use for Grown Ups, supports that pre-existing kind vulnerabilities (psychological or circumstantial) can lead to addiction as we attempt to ease our suffering. He says we must “look beyond the drug itself” to things like co-occurring psychiatric disorders and socioeconomic factors. Now, the problem is that we learn the skills to be with pain as young children – and many of us didn't have great support for that. Any child will have painful experiences simply by being alive. They could be too hot, too cold, too hungry, sick, or in pain. We learn to hold pain and be with it when we know that pain is something we can handle and that it's temporary - it will pass. But how does a child learn to hold pain? Someone could model it for us, like our parents holding our pain with compassion and being empathetic witnesses. Helping us see that this pain isn't devastating, we can handle it. But if we're not held like that, then as soon as pain arises, we think it's never going to stop, we'll feel overwhelmed, and that's when we need to soothe it from the outside. Now, staying present with pain goes against everything we're programmed for. Remember, our motivational triad is to avoid pain, seek pleasure, and do what's easy. Being with pain is NONE of the above. Also keep in mind that when we evolved that way, addictive substances weren't as readily available - those concentrated dopamine hits of drugs like heroin and cocaine, high-proof alcohol, high glycemic-index carbs, easy access to porn… And here is where we circle back to how there is for the most part no “cure” in modern psychiatry. So many clients will say, I wasn't depressed for years, but it came back. Or I thought I was over beating myself up, but here I am back at it. Listen… we can get so much better. Progress isn't measured by CURE. But HEALING is being with it, cultivating the capacity to be with it… which can actually help it happen less and less, with decreased duration and intensity too. So if we experience suffering along the way, it's just a sign that at that moment we aren't able to give ourselves that capacity to hold our suffering. And the way we compensate for that often creates more suffering for ourselves if it's in the form of habit-forming behaviors that lead to addiction. Buddha says that with our minds and thoughts, we create the world. But the part that isn't mentioned a lot in the teachings is how before we create the world with our minds, the world creates our minds too. This helps us remember self-compassion and learn new ways to work with our brain. The ultimate truth is that despite the most difficult early experiences, we have the capacity to hold our suffering, and the world also creates environments in which being with this pain if available if we look for that - healthy friendships, community, spiritual groups, nature, and reconnection with ourselves. We know that people can heal. This is our practice. It applies to all of us, not just sensitive people. But it's particularly important if you or someone you know is sensitive. With this practice, as a more sensitive person, we won't be as controlled and reactive due to the overwhelm and sensory overload we may feel, and we'll be more likely to be able to have a sense of being centered and grounded amidst it all, which is a really liberating feeling. We'll have more access to our wild mind. Being highly sensitive comes with a capacity for growth and self-reflection — traits the world really needs right now. So if you identify as sensitive, please continue your practice to build this resilience, to stay on your path and not get derailed by addiction or a false sense of safety or relaxation. This world needs you. What you'll learn:// Why and how sensitivity may have a connection with addiction, along with our genetics.// How epigenetics and environment can affect future generations… positively OR negatively.// How textbooks define addiction and how it shows up in adults who use drugs.// How we can begin to heal ourselves and build resilience as sensitive people Resources:// Episode 2: How to Not Care WHat Other People Think About You // Episode 13: How to Quit Buffering // Episode 15: How to Drink Less // Episode 144: Your Wild Mind - The East and Our Need to Escape // If you're new to the squad, grab the Rebel Buddhist Toolkit I created at RebelBuddhist.com. It has all you need to start creating a life of more freedom, adventure, and purpose. You'll also get access to the Rebel Buddhist private group, and tune in every Wednesday as I go live with new inspiration and topics.    // Want something more self-paced with access to weekly group support and getting coached by yours truly? Check out Freedom School – the community for ALL things related to freedom, inside and out. Learn more at JoinFreedomSchool.com. I can't wait to see you there!  // Want to join me for the next cohort of the Adventure Mastermind? Visit AdventureMastermind.com to get on the waitlist to be the first to hear about the next dates and locations. If you've already done the mastermind, stay tuned for a special alumni retreat. We'll pick up right where we left off and dive even deeper! 

It's time to lift the snobbery of the psychedelic space and accept that recreational spaces are just as valid, beautiful, healing and meaningful as ceremonial or therapeutic spaces. Creating meaningful recreational experiences comes down to pscyho-education, preparation, following harm reduction protocols, set, and setting (no surprise there).Join me for this incredible episode with DanceSafe, a non-profit committed to ending the drug war and promoting health and safety within nightlife and music communities.Jessica Breemen, Chief Growth & Impact Officer at DanceSafe, gives us important risk reduction and benefit maximization information for the recreational setting. The purpose of this episode is to provide accurate and potentially life saving information information; it is not intended to promote drug use, rather, to shine a light on the reality of recreational containers, which is so far from the “drug-war” narrative.As we move into social acceptance of psychedelics, I believe that it's crucial that we do not stigmatize certain types of use while allowing others. Humans have been altering their consciousness with a wide variety of substances forever, and will continue to do so. It makes no sense to gatekeep and stigmatize certain substances while allowing other largely toxic and harmful ones — alcohol — to be so freely used and accepted.Topics covered:This history and mission behind DanceSafeStigmas and myths about recreational drug useThe reality of adulteration and how to reduce riskEarly signs of dependency & problematic use to look out forHarm reduction tips to employ for all substancesRisk education & benefit maximization protocols for MDMA, Ketamine, LSD and MushroomsThe importance of mindset and community when engaging in recreational psychedelicsHow to properly “test before you ingest” with reagentsWhat you need to know about FentanylThe sacredness of (safe) nightlife culture/the rave & why preserving it is importantShow Links:DanceSafe Reagent Testing KitsRollKit - LANA for 10% offDonate to DanceSafeVolunteer with DanceSafeDrug Use for Grown-Ups by Dr. Carl Hart [book]Zendo ProjectShow Notes***Episode correction: In this episode it was quoted that 75%-90% of drug use is non-problematic, it is actually 70%-90%If this episode sparked something within, please let me know and leave a review! 1:1 Coaching with LanaInstagram | Facebook  | WebsiteModern Psychedelics Integration JournalDISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. The thoughts, views and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance.  This episode was produced in collaboration with FWI Media. Check out their beautiful work! If this episode sparked something within, please let me know and leave a review! FREEBIES to support your journey 1:1 Coaching with LanaInstagram | YouTube | Web | Facebook DISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. The thoughts, views and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance.

Happy Pi Day!! On today's episode of Nanodosing, the whole crew is in the studio to continue the discussion on the Malaysia Flight 370 and its disappearance. We also get into golf, NFL free agency, the Ja Morant scandal and much more. Plus, the guys are joined by special guest Carl Hart. Hart is an American psychologist and neuroscientist and currently woks as the Mamie Phipps Clark Professor of Psychology at Columbia University. He is known for his research on drug abuse and drug addiction, his advocacy for the legalization of recreational drugs, and his recreational use of drugs.You can find every episode of this show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or YouTube. Prime Members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. For more, visit barstool.link/macrodosing

In this episode, I sit down with Alli Schaper, co-founder of Super Mush, Into the Multiverse, and the Microdosing Collective, and an encyclopedia for all things functional and psychedelic mushrooms. We discuss everything from the distinction between mushrooms and fungi; to our human connection and long history with mushrooms; to how the mycelium network connects every living organism. Alli explains how she came to use functional mushrooms for her health, what is happening legally right now in the U.S. with psychedelics, and how psilocybin-assisted therapy is being used for treating PTSD, mental health, and more. We also discuss how psilocybin creates new neural pathways in the brain, microdosing vs. tripping, and the work Alli is doing to promote industry regulation, accessibility, and transparency within both psychedelics and functional mushrooms.   Key Takeaway / Points: On fungi, mushrooms, and the mycelium network Our human connection and history with mushrooms How Alli came to using functional mushrooms for her health What's happening legally right now in the U.S. with psychedelics  On psilocybin-assisted therapy for treating PTSD, mental health, and more On the necessity for drug policy and industry regulation within psychedelics On the cultural stigma of marijuana or psychedelic use versus alcohol use How psilocybin creates new neural pathways in the brain Microdosing with psilocybin vs. tripping On educating yourself about how various mind-altering substances affect your health An overview of how guided psychedelic trips work Alli's work with her functional mushroom product line, Super Mush, and its parent company Into the Multiverse   Links:   Read “Drug Use for Grown-Ups” by Dr. Carl Hart here Check out the Microdosing Collective here Read the “Tripping Down the Aisle” article here Check out Super Mush, Alli's functional mushroom product line here and use code CAMERON for 20% off your order   This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.   Shop Seed at seed.com/CAMERON and use code CAMERON to receive 20% off your first month of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic   Shop Sakara here and use code CAMERON at checkout to get 20% off your first meal order    Get a 4 week trial, free postage, and a digital scale at https://www.stamps.com/cameron. Thanks to Stamps.com for sponsoring the show!     Follow Alli: Instagram: @allischaper SuperMush: @supermush Podcast: @IntoTheMultiverseNetwork   Follow me: Instagram: @cameronoaksrogers Website: freckledfoodie.com TikTok: @cameronoaksrogers Twitter: @freckledfoodie Youtube: Cameron Rogers / Freckled Foodie Pinterest: Freckled Foodie   Creative Lead: Amelie Yeager Produced by Dear Media.   

Happy New Year Ladies & Gentlemen And Welcome Back To A New & Improve Season Of The Monster-Cast Brought To You By Merchan Media Productions And The Monster Mash Up Clan. On Tonights Episode Of The Monster-Cast Shneaky & Facevsit Introduce What The Monsters Have Been Up To As Of Late. With The Release Of New Merchandise, A New Single Titled "Mclovin" Off The New Project Titled Terrible Truths The Monsters Are Starting Off The New Year With A Bang!! The Monsters Also Bring You Back With The Intriguing Segments Of Psychedelic Studies Lead By Shneaky & Thug Nerd Lead By Facevsit. From Introducing "Drug Use For Adults A Book By Carl Hart & How The Development Of Pysilocibin Can Help With Mental Issues Such as Ptsd Etc. Face Brings You In With The Latest Of The Marvel Universe & What We Should Be Looking Out When It Comes To The Fascinating World Of Marvel. Tune In To Tonights Episode To Get The Full Scoop Ya Heard!!! On This Monster Cast: 01:35 We Had A Vote McLovin Is The Winner!! 02:00 Join Our Email Listing https://gmail.us19.list-manage.com/su... 03:10 Make Sure You Stream McLovin On All Musical Platforms https://ffm.to/mclovin 04:22 Join The Mmupclan Discord https://discord.com/invite/EV6Yzwxy 06:09 Why 2023 Could Be A Pivotal Year For Psychedelic Studies 09:25 Book Club/Drug Use For Grown Ups By Dr.Carl Hart 12:22 Chloe Bennett ReConfirms Role For Agents Of Shield 13:33 The Announcement Of Secret Wars 14:49 Deadpool & Wolverine 16:10 Spider-Man & Wolverine Rumors 17:04 What A Gem 21:05 Our Wolverine & Our Spider-Man 25:14 DareDevil The Man Without Fear Reborn 28:40 Favorite Thing About Kingpin 30:40 What The BiPartisan Bill States/Psychedelic Studies 34:12 Psilocybin & War Veterans 35:00 Joining HRDRV 38:45 Bringing The Podcast Back 40:50 Session & Pressure 42:30 EP You The Man!! 45:08 Faces Fitness Journey 49:00 Where I Started 49:16 What Kind Of Dog 52:38 Milkduds/Where To Find Us!!! Made Possible By: Merchan Media Productions https://www.instagram.com/merchan_med... https://www.instagram.com/merchanmp/ MMUpClan https://www.mmupclan.com​ https://www.Twitter.com/mmupclan​ https://www.facebook.com/mmupclan https://www.Twitch.tv/mmupclan ​ https://www.instagram.com/mmupclan​ FACEVSIT https://Instagram.com/facevsit https://Facebook.com/facevsit https://Tiktok.com/facevsit https://Triller.com/facevsit https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/fac... SHNEAKY https://www.shneakyentertainment.com ​https://www.instagram.com/officialshn... https://www.twitter.com/officialshneaky ​https://www.facebook.com/officialshneaky ​https://www.instagram.com/shneakyent​ https://www.instagram.com/recrespectpod ​https://www.youtube.com/shneakyness​ https://distrokid.com/hyperfollow/shn... Recorded Jan 25th 2023 at SHNEAKY Entertainment in Southeast LA #mmupclan #blessed #happynewyear #2023 #newsingle #newproject #mmupclan #merchanmediaproductions #monstermondays #monstermode #againstallodds #blessedbeyondmeasure #teamworkmakesthedreamwork #shneakyent #livingmybestlife #brothers #mclovin #terribletruths #beleiveinyourself #hustleandmotivate #dontquit #dreambig #cantstopme #cantstopthegrind #weworking #thugnerd #psycedelics #mushroom #Dodgers #newmerch

The recreational use of psychedelics is a deeply meaningful experience for many people yet there is a lot of shame around it. The spiritual community loves to knock partying as “low vibe” which is downright incorrect; some of my most beautiful memories have been at parties and on dance floors. These FUN experiences are equally as valid as the therapeutic ones.It's time to break the stigma around the recreational use of psychedelics.This episode is an important listen regardless of whether you party with psychedelics or not. By consuming this information you will be a part of breaking the stigma around ALL types of intentional and safe psychedelic use. As long as we are educated, safe and intentional, there is nothing wrong with psychedelics in a recreational context. In fact, it can enrich our lives and provide deep meaning and connections.I brought on two of my friends and dance floor comrades, Jenalle and Kevin, to explore this topic. Jenny is doing amazing work in the psychedelic space with her journal company, Wakeful Travel—a ceremony-companion company that works with wakeful partners to provide tools that aid in transformation and self-exploration. Kevin is a creative director and a true champion of the party spirit. He brightens up my life in with his playful spirit.Both guests are intentional in every part of their lives, including partying. This episode embodies the spirit of an unforgettable party—it's fun, light and goofy, even while exploring the more serious considerations around partying and drugs.Topics covered in this episode:How the history of house music + rave culture parallels the story of psychedelicsIntegrating meaningful dance floor experiences and insights into everyday lifeHow electronic music, intentional community and psychedelics all come together to create a very special experienceThe crossover between recreational and therapeutic use: the dance floor as a therapeutic experience and form of releaseFun, goofiness, play and shenanigans for the sake of fun, without making it about healingBalancing partying with medicine work and lifeIntentionality, moderation, safety and mindfulness when partyingEpisode Links:Pump Up The Volume [house music documentary]PRTY NWS [Kev's project documenting the spirit of parties]Wakeful Travel Psychedelic Journals [Jenny's brand]Dance Safe Drug Testing KitsTest Kit Plus Drug Testing KitsRollKit - LANA for 10% off [MDMA brain protection supplements]Drug Use for Grown Ups by Dr. Carl Hart [book]Have you gained new insights and perspectives from us and our guests? Donate to the podcast via PayPal to help support to cost of creating this powerful content ad-free.If this episode sparked something within, please let me know and leave a review! 1:1 Coaching with LanaInstagram | Facebook  | WebsiteModern Psychedelics Integration JournalDISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. The thoughts, views and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance. This episode was produced in collaboration with FWI Media. Check out their beautiful work! If this episode sparked something within, please let me know and leave a review! FREEBIES to support your journey 1:1 Coaching with LanaInstagram | YouTube | Web | Facebook DISCLAIMER: Modern Psychedelics does not endorse or support the illegal consumption of any substances. This show is meant for entertainment purposes only. The thoughts, views and opinions on this show should not be taken as life advice, medicinal advice, or therapeutic guidance.

I am aware that the words are far easier said than done. So are most if not all of the aspirations worth aiming for. Connect with ALW POD: https://linktr.ee/anylastwordspod?fbclid=PAAaZ9Zbe7hVvMGNm9zWWsiFb-UwbO_lcFSffDweVBDYNDIB14NcI5u1sdtTk ONE FOUR NINE!!! D.E.S./Conversations(0:45) Earl Work Story(12:55) Racism Talk/Dr. Carl Hart(28:44) Cole & Kendrick/BLM/Art Vandalism(44:02) Fighting The Fight/Family Talk(1:08:22) Silent Monks(1:28:23) Updates/Dream Room(1:40:32)

Streamed live on Dec 5, 2022.   We will discuss the legalization of all drugs with Carl Hart, author of Drug Use For Grown-Ups. We'll also be speaking with Rob Sand, State Auditor of Iowa, who just won re-election statewide as Democrat in a Red State.   Check out our Patreon for more! ☀️ patreon.com/JENerationalChange ☀️ WEBSITE: jenerationalchange.com ☀️ TWITTER: @JENChangeFL  ☀️ INSTAGRAM: @JENerationalChange  ☀️ FACEBOOK: @Jen Perelman

There's an Adderall shortage across the U.S., and it's causing huge problems for people with ADHD. But on the flip side, we hear people saying that we shouldn't be giving this drug out anyway. So we wanted to know: What is Adderall, exactly? What is it doing in people's brains? And is there any truth to this idea that Adderall is like meth — could it be dangerous? We talk to psychiatrist Prof. Rachel Fargason, neuroscientist Prof. Habibeh Khoshbouei, and actor Kai Liu. If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, in the US you can call the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration's National Helpline: 1-800-662-HELP or visit their website. Find our transcript here: https://bit.ly/sciencevsadderall This episode was produced by Rose Rimler, with help from Meryl Horn, Michelle Dang, and Disha Bhagat. We're edited by Blythe Terrell. Editing help from Caitlin Kenney. Wendy Zukerman is our Executive Producer. Fact checking by Diane Kelly. Mix and sound design by Bumi Hidaka. Music written by Bumi Hidaka, Emma Munger, Bobby Lord, SoWylie, and Peter Leonard. And a big thanks to the researchers we spoke to including Dr. Kenny Handelman, Prof. Gail Tripp, Prof. Lily Hechtman, Dr. Nora Volkow, Dr. Joshua Gordon, Prof. Stephen Faraone, Dr. Zheng Chang, and Prof. Carl Hart. A big thanks to Annette Heist, Anya Schultz, and Thom Dunn. And this is our last episode of the season! So an extra special thanks to everyone who helped us out this season, including Jack Weinstein, and Hunter, Chris Suter and Elise, and Presha Bhagat. We'll see you next year! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Dr. Carl Hart's research is focused on the behavioral and neuropharmacological effects of psychoactive drugs in humans. He is the Chair of the Department of Psychology at Columbia University. Professor Hart has published numerous scientific and popular articles in the area of neuropsychopharmacology and is the co-author of the textbook Drugs, Society and Human Behavior. His most recent book is “Drug Use for Grown-Ups.” This is an incredible conversation I had with Dr. Hart, and I believe his work could be the future of care for your mind and body. Dr. Carl Hart https://drcarlhart.com/ If you enjoyed the conversation, please give us a 5***** rating on your listening platform. Thank you! Start drinking smarter! Use code LIFE20 for 20% off your Rebel Rabbit orders! https://drinkrebelrabbit.com/discount/LLM20 For the best mattresses in the game, Engineered Sleep is your team! Use code LIVE15 to get 15% off your order. https://engineeredsleep.com

On this episode of Field Tripping, Ronan is joined by Dr. Carl Hart - neuroscientist, researcher, and best-selling author of "Drug Use for Grown Ups." The two discuss opioid death examinations, psychedelic media coverage and how the definition of a psychedelic is changing. Plus, we chat about drug policy & reform in America – and how Dr. Hart is sickened that drug test kits aren't more accessible.

BONUS EPISODES & PREMIUM ACCESS: https://auxoro.supercast.com On this episode of The AUX, Zach discusses an Airbnb owner forced to take down his listing because it used to house slaves, knife defense drills and what it's like to face someone trying to stab you at 100%, and an excerpt from Dr. Carl Hart's book 'Drug Use For Adults' that talks about shamanism and psychedelics.  THE AUX LINKSApple: https://apple.co/3yc6CQXSpotify: https://spoti.fi/3icuZIIOvercast: https://bit.ly/3j1B8qgWebsite: https://www.auxoro.com/Newsletter: https://www.auxoro.com/thesource SOCIAL LINKS:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/aux.pod/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@aux.podNewsletter: https://www.auxoro.com/thesourceYouTube: https://bit.ly/3jHsJcm If you enjoy the show, please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, helps us appear higher in searches so more people discover the show, and it boosts my ego;) 

Subscribe to Bad Faith on Patreon to instantly unlock our full premium episode library: http://patreon.com/badfaithpodcast    This week, Briahna speaks to psychologist, neuroscientist, & Columbia professor Dr. Carl Hart about drugs. The author of Drug Use for Grown-Ups, Dr. Hart explains what everyone gets wrong about drugs and addiction, makes a powerful argument for decriminalization, advises Briahna on what drugs she should try first, weighs in on WNBA player Brittney Griner's imprisonment in Russia for drug charges, & offers his take on Euphoria. Stick through until the end, where he also has some thoughts on the epidemic of cop fentanyl "overdoses." Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod). Produced by Armand Aviram. Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).

On this week's Life Examined, we're teaming up with KCRW's Bodies podcast. In “Do Less Harm,” the second episode of the new season, producer Hannah Harris Green travels to West Virginia, where despite government push back, activists are handing out clean needles and the opioid overdose medication Narcan. Host Jonathan Bastian talks with Green and Bodies creator and host Allison Behringer about their new season and Green's experience meeting people who use drugs in rural West Virginia. We also hear from Dr. Carl Hart, Columbia University psychologist and author of  “Drug Use for Grown Ups,” on why he thinks the legalization of recreational drug use is important. 

Season 3 is here! Season 3, Episode 1: The Evolution of Modern Drug Policy with Ethan Nadelmann. Ethan Nadelmann is the founder of Drug Policy Alliance! He tells Jay about his introduction to drug use and drug policy decades ago and his move, in the 90s, to bring multiple organizations under one roof which gave birth to the legendary DPA. After retiring half a decade ago, Ethan continues to be a force on drug policy scene and now hosts the podcast Psychoactive, for iHeart. Past guests have included Dan Savage discussing Sex, Drugs and Freedom, Former President Juan Manuel Santos of Mexico on Ending Drug Prohibition in the Americas, Carl Hart on Studying Drugs, Using Drugs & Staying Safe, and many more. Listen at the link above or wherever you get your podcasts. More on Ethan: https://www.gq.com/story/heres-where-to-find-the-smartest-conversations-about-drugs-right-now, https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/ethan-nadelmann-psychoactive-podcast-psychedelics-legalized-drugs-1195644/Choose Your Struggle Presents: Made It, Season 1, Stay Savage drops April 29th! Subscribe to Made It's stream! https://kite.link/choose-your-struggle-presents-made-itToday's Good Egg: Subscribe to Made It! (PLEAAAAAAASE!!!) Looking for someone to wow your audience now that the world is reopening? My speaking calendar is open! If you're interested in bringing me to your campus, your community group, your organization or any other location to speak about Mental Health, Substance Misuse & Recovery, or Drug Use & Policy, reach out to me at Info@jayShifman.com. Tank Tops are in! You can see what they look like on the website (thanks to Jay's wife for modeling the women's cut). Reach out through the website to order. If you're looking for something a little less expensive, magnets are in too! Check them out on the website or Instagram. Patreon supporters get a discount so join Patreon!But that's not all! You can now buy even more merch! Check out our store on Teepublic at https://www.teepublic.com/stores/choose-your-struggle?ref_id=24308 for shirts, mugs, stickers, phone cases, baby onesies and much, much more!Support the Podcast on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ChooseYourStruggle Leave us an audio message to share feedback and have a chance to be played on the show: https://podinbox.com/CYS Review the Podcast: https://ReviewThisPodcast.com/Choose-Your-Struggle.Support the Podcast, a different way: https://podhero.com/401017-ikv.Learn more about the Shameless Podcast Network: https://www.shamelessnetwork.com/ Our Partner Bookshop (Support Local Book Stores and the Podcast in the Process!): https://bookshop.org/shop/CYS Our Partner Road Runner (Use Code CYS for 10% off): www.roadrunnercbd.com/ref/CYS As always, you can find more at our links: https://jay.campsite.bio ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Today we welcome Carl Hart. He is the Ziff Professor of Psychology in the Departments of Psychology and Psychiatry at Columbia University. He is known for his research on neuropsychopharmacology and his advocacy for the decriminalization of recreational drugs. Carl is the author of High Price and has co-authored the introductory textbook Drugs, Society, and Human Behavior with Charles Ksir. His most recent book is called Drug Use for Grown-Ups.In this episode, I talk to Carl Hart about drug use and addiction. Society is quick to judge all drug users as addicts but Carl's research found that the majority of drug users do not meet the criteria for pathology. Recreational drugs, when used responsibly, can have positive effects on people.  Instead of waging a war on drugs, Carl advocates for laws that better regulate the production and sale of substances. We also touch on the topics of health, law, racism, cognition, and sociology.Website: drcarlhart.comTwitter: @drcarlhart Topics02:32 Carl's interest in neuropsychopharmacology06:12 The brain disease model of addiction11:22 Should we talk about drugs with kids?13:47 Responsible drug use for grown-ups17:08 Drugs in pursuit of happiness22:54 The Harrison Narcotics Tax Act 29:28 Scott's experience with edibles33:21 Why we need drug checking facilities37:01 The drug user tropes in media 41:59 Predictors of drug abuse and addiction 46:42 Drug overdose and safety50:09 Personal responsibility in drug addiction52:45 Our moralism is killing us55:06 Coming out as a heroin user57:52 Bob Marley and James Baldwin 

The controversial Columbia neuroscientist, Air Force vet, and author of Drug Use for Grown-Ups believes deeply in life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

SPONSORS:  Ridge Wallet: Use Code “TRIGGER ” for 10% off your order at https://www.ridge.com/TRIGGER - Manscaped. Receive 20% off Manscaped products when you use the code Trigger20. Check out their products https://www.manscaped.com - Professor Carl Hart is a psychologist at Columbia University and has authored numerous scientific and popular articles in the area of neuropsychopharmacology, including his latest book - *Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear* - available now. - Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals! https://triggernometry.locals.com/ OR Support TRIGGERnometry Here: https://www.subscribestar.com/triggernometry https://www.patreon.com/triggerpod Bitcoin: bc1qm6vvhduc6s3rvy8u76sllmrfpynfv94qw8p8d5 Buy Merch Here: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/shop/​​​ Advertise on TRIGGERnometry: marketing@triggerpod.co.uk Join the Mailing List: https://www.triggerpod.co.uk/sign-up/​​​ Find TRIGGERnometry on Social Media:  https://twitter.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.facebook.com/triggerpod​​​ https://www.instagram.com/triggerpod​​​ About TRIGGERnometry:  Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.

Are we thinking about drugs the wrong way? Dr. Carl Hart PhD sheds light on our common misconceptions when it comes to drugs, including ‘the hard drugs' or ‘street drugs' like cocaine and heroin. Dr. Hart breaks down where our faults in perception lie and how we can reframe to a more nuanced perception of drugs and drug users. His premise is that addiction has more to do with the person and their environment rather than the drugs themselves. Check out Dr. Carl Hart's new book Drug Use For Grown-Ups | https://amzn.to/3tO3mu6 Connect with Dr. Carl Hart | Website | https://drcarlhart.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/carlhart/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/drcarlhart Youtube | https://www.youtube.com/user/drcarlhart This episode is sponsored by: NUTRA SENSE Improve your diet, sleep, exercise and manage stress through Continuous Glucose Monitoring. Get $30 off any subscription to a CGM program by visiting nutrisense.io/aubrey and use the code Aubrey at checkout INSIDE TRACKER For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire InsideTracker store by visiting insidetracker.com/amp Onnit Get 10% off Onnit products | https://www.onnit.com/Aubrey/ Connect with Aubrey: Website | https://www.aubreymarcus.com/ Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/aubreymarcus/ Twitter | https://twitter.com/aubreymarcus Facebook | https://www.facebook.com/AubreyMarcus/ YouTube | https://bit.ly/2DLctpk Check out Own The Day Own Your Life by Aubrey Marcus| https://bit.ly/2t6x4hu Subscribe to the Aubrey Marcus Newsletter: https://www.aubreymarcus.com/pages/email Subscribe to the Aubrey Marcus Podcast: iTunes | https://apple.co/2lMZRCn Spotify | https://spoti.fi/2EaELZO Stitcher | https://bit.ly/2G8ccJt IHeartRadio | https://ihr.fm/3CiV4x3 Google Podcasts | https://bit.ly/3nzCJEh Android | https://bit.ly/2OQeBQg

Professor Carl Hart is an expert in the fields of neuropsychopharmacology and behavioral neuroscience. A longtime champion for evidence-based drug policies, Hart has written a number of influential books in the field. His newest is "Drug Use for Grown-Ups: Chasing Liberty in the Land of Fear".