Podcasts about Rat Park

Michael Kent, traveling comedian and magician, joins Marissa to share hard-won lessons from 20 years of marriage while spending up to 250 days per year on the road. Discover why performer relationships fail, the "dopamine trap" of audience affirmation, and the one ritual that saved his marriage. Learn the three pillars of healthy relationships (communication, respect, trust), how to communicate vulnerably without blame, and why human connection matters more than ever in our isolated world. Michael reveals advice from Ralphie May that transformed his marriage and shares practical strategies for maintaining intimacy across distance. Topics covered: Why entertainment industry marriages fail (and why his didn't) How to distinguish between audience affirmation and real love The power of saying "What can I do to help?" Reframing relationship conflicts Breaking the content vs. happiness debate Connection as the antidote to addiction and loneliness Keywords: healthy relationships, marriage advice, communication skills, long-distance relationships, relationship tips, emotional intimacy, relationship goals   Full Transcript:  Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Welcome, Michael. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. Thank you so much for joining us.    Michael Kent Absolutely. It's so good to be here. I was happy to have you on my podcast recently, and I've never been on a podcast like yours, so I'm kind of excited and nervous. Oh, don't be nervous.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) It's easy, breezy conversation. We're just chit-chatting. But tell everyone about your podcast, because I thought it was so much fun to be a guest on yours. Thank you. Sure.   Michael Kent Well, my podcast, it's funny because it has nothing to do with what I do for a living. So I make my living as a comedian and magician. During the pandemic, me and so many other people decided we were going to podcast. So I decided that mine was going to be about history, but not like the boring history. I am fascinated by the fact that I'm in my 40s and I'm still learning things. Every day, like there's new things to learn. And some of them are important. Some of them are just interesting. They're not important. And so what I decided to do was find a different story from history every week. And it has to sound like it's something that I just made up. And initially, the podcast was called Tell Me What to Google, because tell me what to Google, because there were people giving me these ideas like, hey, you should Google this. Because after the first season, I realized that it's really hard to be found on Google when you have Google in the name of your show. So my buddy Jonathan Burns came up with the title, The Internet Says It's True. And that's what it's been called for 267 episodes. Every week is a news story that sounds like it's absolutely made up. And they're all 100% verifiably true. I go through painstaking efforts to like go back and find the original newspaper articles and everything. But I present them in a way that's really fun and lighthearted. And then we do a quiz at the end. So yeah, it's been a fun project. It's really fun for me to work on something that is not me. It's not about my show and me.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) And it sounds really fun. History is so interesting, and there's so much fun stuff out there. I love being on your podcast. For the last couple episodes, we were talking about food, which anyone who knows me knows that food is a passion of mine. Not cooking it, just eating it. But yeah, so check out The Internet Says It's True. It streams everywhere. You can listen to the episodes I'm on. But let's jump into the Healing for Emotional Abuse podcast. Michael, so you mentioned that you are a traveling comedian and magician. Will you tell us a little bit more about what you do?   Michael Kent Yeah. Basically, my job for the last 22 years has been to give people an hour of their life where they don't have to think about what's going on outside. They don't have to think about the... about the... They Thank You know, the stress and the tests and the exams, or if it's a workplace, you know, the deadlines and the news and politics. I'm just giving them an escape, which is what magic is. Magic is an amazing ability for us to be able to suspend our disbelief as if we're watching a wrestling match. And it's really easy, it turns out, for people to believe that something's happening that's impossible, because we all want to believe that that's true. Even the most skeptical people react to magic in a way that is almost childlike. Magic has a different reaction from everyone. Everyone has a different way of reacting to it. And I really love that, but I don't love the tension that magic brings. So I do a comedy show. I do a comedy magic show that sort of acknowledges the strange elephant in the room, and that is, I'm a man in my 40s pretending to be a wizard. This crazy career has taken me quite literally all over the world to 49 states. I still need to go to Wyoming. I haven't performed there yet. But 49 states, 19 countries, I believe, and cruise ships and military bases. And gosh, I performed on board an aircraft carrier last year while they were active in the sea. It's been an amazing career for the last couple decades. I'm focusing my efforts now more toward corporate groups and providing corporate groups with sort of an engagement tool and being that engagement facilitator for them to improve their events. So that's sort of the focus of my career currently. But for the last 20 years, I've been one of the top comedian magicians on the college market. So that's how I know you.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) That's true. That's awesome. So you have... You've in one relationship for basically like the extent of all of your career. So 22 years on the road, and you and your wife, first, can you tell us how you met?   Michael Kent Yeah, it's not like one of those, you know, Hallmark stories. But my wife and I went to college together, had the same major and several of the same classes and never met.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) We figured that out after the fact.   Michael Kent So we met through the girl that I grew up next door to when I was a little kid. So from the time I was born until I was eight years old, I lived next door to this person who I won't name because I don't know if I have their permission to talk about them publicly. So I grew up next to her, and she's like a sister to me. And we reconnected after college, like right after college, for the end of college, and we're hanging out. And Allison, my wife, was always around in the friend group. And I started sort of jokingly referring to her as my girlfriend because I had a crush on her. And finally, I asked her out, and we went on what I thought was like an amazing date. It was an amazing date. And then, let's see what happened next. We went off and dated other people. It didn't last. And then we reconnected like four or five months later, and that was the end of that. And we're coming up on our 20th wedding anniversary in August.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Wow. Yeah.   Michael Kent And like any marriage, know, it's had ups and downs and good times and bad times. And much of the good times and bad times have come from dealing with exactly what you're talking about, the idea that I do spend. At one point, I spent 250 days a year on the road doing shows. And that's really tough on any relationship, married or not, however long, you know, it's... It's just a difficult thing to learn how to deal with. When we met and started, you know, getting serious about dating, I was wanting to be a magician. I was wanting to do this, but I wasn't very successful yet. So she was sort of my sugar mama for the first few years because she had a job and I didn't. And so, you know, it took a while for my career to take off. And then it's been obviously a very, like, fulfilling and lucrative career since. And so, yeah, that's sort of where we are. And she and I are one of those sort of opposites attract couples, you know, like she is a bit more conservative and pragmatic. And I'm sort of a dreamy artist who, you know, head in the clouds type. But we have sort of become more similar as we've gotten older. think that probably just happens with married couples. After a long time, our tastes have become more similar.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) That's awesome. So 20 years married, more than 22 years together. In our industry, like the college market, the traveling to entertain market, I don't know the statistic. I can look it up. But I think most marriages end with one partner that travels a lot and the other that doesn't. And thinking to the conferences that we go to or the colleagues that we have, most of them have been divorced. I can really only think of four people who have been consistently married to the same person. So keeping the communication, the love, the marriage alive is very challenging. So what do you and Allison do or like what have you learned over the years that has helped you guys navigate this, you know, kind   Michael Kent Yeah, first of all, she is a saint to be able to deal with this, right? Like when you think about someone being gone that much, and that's just the half of it. The being gone part is only half of the equation. We'll talk about the other half in a minute, but I was in Chicago Midway Airport headed to, where was I going? St. Louis. And I was headed to a conference, and the comedian Ralphie May, who has since passed, I recognized him just being a fan of comedy, and we struck up a conversation, and we sat next to each other on the flight, and we talked the whole way to St. Louis, and somehow we got talking about relationships. And at that point, Ralphie was married. He ended up getting divorced later, but he gave me the best relationship advice ever, and it sort of, I think, saved my marriage. And Basically, what he said was, the reason that show business relationships fail is because entertainers, night after night, get this amazing feeling from complete strangers. This affirmation that everyone would love. You'd be crazy not to love it. You have complete strangers. You know, it's like if your husband tells you, you look great today. It means something. It's important. But if a stranger at the gas station says, look great today, why does that? It means a little bit more because they don't have an incentive or motive, you know, like they don't have to tell you that. And that's kind of the feeling that entertainers get on stage is like, oh, my God, these complete strangers adore me. And then that night after night after night. And then you go home to your significant other. And they're like, where have you been? Your dirty laundry is on the floor. You didn't do the chore you said you were going to do. And you start comparing them to the people in the audience. And that's. It's so unfair because the people in the audience only know you for one hour at the most, and it's your best hour. It's the hour that you've been rehearsing. It'd be bad. It'd be weird if they didn't love you for that hour. You know what I mean? Whereas now you're comparing them to someone who knows all of you and all the warts and all of the, you know, the, the history and the, the arguments and your tendencies. And, and it's just not a fair comparison. You're comparing apples to oranges in that instance, and it's not And so I spent so much time like thinking about that and examining that and how, which one's wrong, which one's right? You know? And I think the answer is like, neither one's wrong. Neither one's right. But what I realized is that audience while I, God, I love them. I appreciate them so much that they come to my shows and that they laugh with me. They're not my friends in most Most instances. And so when the show is over, that relationship is over. Now, that's not to say, like, I don't want to, you know, put out content for them to consume and interact with people and enjoy their acquaintanceship. But those aren't family. They're not friends. And so that's the that is the struggle that most entertainers run into is that they see that feeling that they get from a complete stranger when they're on stage or when they're, you know, someone who's reacting to their art and they say, oh, this person sees me. This person really likes me because they see me and through my art and all this. But that's not a real healthy. That's not a relationship. That's just a one sided thing. And and so it took a really long time to realize that. And so what I did, I put in almost immediately after talking to Ralphie, a know, A new tradition slash ritual. When I finish a job, a gig, when I finish a show, after I load out, I have a schedule that I do normally. And this is just what I do. I get to, when the show's over and I've done a meet and greet or merch or whatever it might be afterward, when I start loading out and tearing down my show, I text my wife. I let her know I'm loading out. And both of us know that that means that I'm going to be sitting in my car in about 45 minutes to an hour. And when I get in my car, I don't put in the directions to the hotel. I don't put in directions to the airport. I just sit and I call her and we talk. And we don't talk about my show or my travels. We talk about her day. And we talk about the dogs and what's going on back home. And what it is, is a snapback to what is real. It's a snapback to what is good and what is real. And it's a buffer between this world that can make anyone feel like a king to a world that is more mutual, where this is like, this is reality. This is two-way now. It's not just a one-way thing. That call has met the world to me, and I think to Allison, too, because she doesn't want to hear about magic. Allison hates magic.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I tried to show her magic on our first date, and she goes, know what you're doing, and it's not going to work on me.   Michael Kent And she wasn't talking about the trick wasn't going to work. You know what I mean? I had just spent all those years in college using magic to impress strangers, and now all of a sudden I have to use my personality. I was like, I like this girl. So when we talk after the show, it's, you know, it's about her and her horses and the dogs and what's going on back home, you know, and it's, while that's nice for her, it's also nice for me because then... Let's see. I don't do what I used to do, which is before that, I would be like, how can I make this feeling of this audience continue? And I would start looking and saying, okay, who added me on Instagram? Who liked my show? Who commented on that photo? You know, and being like, you know, you just want that feeling to continue. It's why a lot of artists, musicians, comedians turn to substance abuse, because they're trying to continue the feeling that they get when they're on stage. It's an indescribable feeling, and I'm sure you get it when you speak as well. You know, it's indescribable how it feels to be affirmed by complete strangers in a room where there are hundreds of them looking at you. So it's a really difficult thing to compete with, but that's a much bigger aspect of the problem than is the just being gone. Because I could do, it doesn't matter if you're gone, if you're gone. All the time anyway, mentally or emotionally, you know, like that's the important thing is, are you emotionally there? And it's taken me a long time to do this. And you're talking, you're talking to someone who has spent years in therapy dealing with this. think therapy has been just as important as that discussion with, with, with Ralphie May on an airplane, you know.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) That's so interesting. I, first of all, that's really cool that you got to, you got to sit next to Ralphie May, but also like that, that advice and like that thought process makes a lot of sense. And I never really thought about it that way, where that like euphoric feeling of being loved and adored, right? Right. And then you turn to your family or your partner where, you know, they don't, you know, they know the full you versus other people who only know, like you said, the one dimension of you, you know, it's, and I wonder just in like the full world, not just our world, but how. that translates to them, right? Sure.   Michael Kent Well, it does, because like people that are in the workplace have their work life and their home life. And it's completely different. The people that the way that they interact with people at work is completely different than the way that they interact with their family. And. It's I know that this is a problem for a lot of people, because when you get to that place where you're pulling into the driveway or you're pulling into your garage or whatever to go home, there's a really harsh shift that has to happen between how you deal with work and how you deal with home. And it is it is incredible. It's the same with sports teams as well. When you're on a sports team, your relationship with that sports team or military unit is a bond that you might feel like you never can compete with, with your with your personal relationship. And you have you have to realize and look at it that. It's apples and oranges. It is not the same type of thing. And it's okay for both of those things to coexist. They are not competing with one another.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Yeah. And I think it translates a lot to why people cheat, right? Because if you, like even just looking at work wives and work husbands, right? You have somebody that you have developed a relationship with in your place of work and you're like, oh, this is my work husband or this is my work wife or my work whatever, you know? And then that person only knows the little bit of you that you show at work versus at home where, you know, you leave your dirty socks everywhere and, you know, or, or you're acting at your very comfortable personality, right? And then the other people, when you get upset with your partner and you talk to your work friends about it, right? Or like your work, whatever work wife about it. They're like, oh, I would never do that. I don't understand. I would never yell at you for something so minuscule. So that becomes very, um, attractive, right? Like, oh, this, Person, they would never treat me. But if they knew you the way that your home partner does, right, your real partner, they would absolutely not be okay with that, right? Or they would also have, there would be tiffs, right? And so I just think that that's so fascinating. That's such an interesting perspective.   Michael Kent Well, was a perspective that was sort of forced on me that I'm glad that I came to because, you know, when you are in a relationship that you value, that you really want to, if you realize in that moment the value of it, you'll do anything you can to keep it. And in my case, what I realized was that the problem was me, right? The problem was that, and it wasn't just me being gone a lot. Obviously, that's tough. But the problem was that, like, I needed to look at things realistically. And, you know, it's kind of like... When you look at an artist's painting that they've put up in a gallery, like if they put it up in a gallery, they know it's good. But what you're not seeing is all their early works that they're not proud of, that they're not showing off. And your relationship with your significant other probably knows and has seen those early works. And so to stick with the metaphor, the gallery goer might be like, this is the best artist in the world. They can never do anything wrong. You know what I mean? And that's that audience member. That's that person who's only seeing you for or knowing you for an hour. Or the people who only know that you're really good at work and you're a good problem solver. Oh, that person must be like that at home. And, you know, and you fantasize and you create this thing that's not there. And reality is often much more boring. And reality is the...   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) The reality is in between the highs and lows.   Michael Kent That's where most of our life happens, is in the waiting for the next exciting thing to happen. And so you have to kind of get, like, very comfortable with the fact that things aren't always exciting and full of affirmation and butterflies and puppy dogs. Sometimes the greatness of life is those days where you're like, you want to go out to dinner, but we're just so exhausted. So we're going to just make ramen and sit on the couch and watch TV. And that's going to have to be fine. And that's like even the most successful, exciting movie stars do that. You know what I mean? Like they have, it might not be ramen. might still be, you know, their executive chef cooks them something, but everyone has in between times where you might be in between projects or you might be in between this. And that's what, like, to me, that's kind of the beauty of relationships. It's like, this is someone who you have deemed to be comfortable with you when things aren't exciting, when things are good, and when things are really difficult and hard and you're at each other's throats and fighting, like, someone that you can get through that with. So, yeah. I'm talking, like, I feel like I'm really self-conscious right now talking about this because I know how I have struggled as a husband, and, like, I know how I've had my, like, shortcomings in the past, and I'm talking as if I'm some expert on relationships. It's taken a lot of work for me to get here, and in 10 years from now, I probably will look back at this and be like, I was, I didn't know what I was talking about because I will have learned more. You know, that's the hope anyway, right?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) That's the whole point of life and relationships, right? Like, we are always growing. We're always learning, right? On your podcast, the premise of it was, I can't believe I'm in my 40s and I'm still learning every day. I have always been like an avid lifelong learner, right? I still – I'm in my mid-30s. I still want to go back for more degrees. I still want to do more learning. And my mother-in-law is always making fun of me because I told her at Christmas I want to go to law school. And she's like, why? Why do you want to go to law school? You don't want to be a lawyer. And I'm like, yeah, but I want to understand. And I want to be able to help. And like if you're not learning, you're dying, right? And so, you know, I can look back on things I wrote. My first book, know, Breaking Through the Silence, I wrote it in 2017. And when I put it out, I was like, oh, this is incredible. Like I did so much work. I did all of this. And look where I got, right? And now I read it and I'm like, oh, my God, this is so embarrassing, right? Because we are always growing. We're always learning. So where you are – about when I make a promo video for my show.    Michael Kent By the time I'm editing it, I'm embarrassed by it.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) That's how quickly I'm always changing stuff, you know? Yeah, but that's, I mean, we're always growing, and right now, especially in the world with technology and all that we have, we're absorbing so much stimuli and so much information every minute of every day to a point where our brains have shifted so much, and we're kind of getting off topic, but I'm happy about it because I like to talk about this. Yeah, two quick things.   Michael Kent Something that I realized that I have realized about relationships is another thing that makes them fail, in my opinion, is that people expect it to always feel the way it did in the beginning. I mean, this isn't a surprise to anyone. Everyone knows that this is a problem, right? You might feel that way with someone at work or someone that, you know, like comes through your life, incidentally, and you'll be like, oh, this is the way I felt with my significant other in the beginning. And what you fail to realize is that relationships always... Are changing and you're never going to have, I mean, I can't say never because I don't, you know, obviously there, I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but it's rare to be able to have the same relationship with your significant other that you had when you met and my wife and I have had different iterations of our life together, right? Like there have been different, it's almost like a different thing that you find that you love about that person and you both grow and you're not the same people you were back then. It would be silly if you were acting the same way you were when you were, you know, I met Ali when I was like 22 or something, right? So there's a, my favorite book is called Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind by Shunryu Suzuki. It's just a book about Zen and the main premise of it is in the beginner's mind, there are many options. In the expert's mind, there are few and many possibilities, I think is what he says. And that is to realize that you don't know. Everything is the ability to learn and to change and to grow. Whereas if you say, well, I got married, I aced it, done, I succeeded, I'm at the plateau, now everything's always going to be like this, and everything's always going to be great, and I don't have to try anymore. That's death, right? That's death. As you described, when you stop learning, you're dying. So anyway, those are the two quick things I wanted to bring up.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) And I appreciate that. So Larry and I had a conversation, my husband, it was more of like a debate actually a few months ago where do you strive to be content all the time or do you strive to be happy all the time? Like what's the right, what's the right way to look at life, right? Because if we are striving to be happy, and I was on team, I want to be happy. Thank you. All the time, right? I want to always be feeling like I'm accomplishing. I always want to be feeling like I'm doing something and growing. And he was like, no, because if that's the case, then you're basically chasing a moving goalpost, right? If you always strive to be happy, then you are never happy where you are. And I thought that was so fascinating. So like striving to be content versus striving to be happy. It sounds like from what you said, you strive to be content, right? You know that things are changing and growing and you adjust and adapt and you grow together or you grow apart, right? But you guys work to grow together. So what's your take on that?   Michael Kent Well, you're right. mean, I think of those two options, I would say like striving to be content, but I'm not even sure I'm, I like the phrasing of like content because content, it can bring about feelings of like, I'm content, so I'm not going to strive for happiness or for joy, I guess is what I would replace happiness with is. So Or pleasure. Joy and pleasure are fleeting, whereas contentment is not. Contentment is what I would describe as the middle path or the middle road. If you can't tell, I'm really into Buddhism, and that's kind of where a lot of my philosophy comes from, is that it's going back to what I said earlier about how most of life are those in-between times. And those in-between times, contentment is a great way to describe those. You're fine. There's nothing wrong. You're lacking pleasure in that moment, maybe. But you're also lacking profound sadness or fear. You know what I mean? There's just times when you just are. And if you aren't happy, and I mean happy in a very large, vague sense here, if you can't survive, and if you're suffering in the times when... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... There's nothing to be particularly pleasurable or to be joyful about or whatever. That's most of your life. Most of our life are those in-between times. And so if you were on a desert island, a deserted island somewhere, and you didn't have anything, how would you be happy? What would you do to not suffer? And the answer is, you have to just be able to live with yourself. You have to be able to understand that we are beings. The only thing we have to do is breathe. And that's it. We have to eat and breathe and just be. Everything else is icing on the cake. So, but the reason I kind of have issue with the word content is because I think, at least in modern use, it sort of can mean settling or not striving. And I'm always... This is a struggle for me. Sometimes it's really difficult for me to just sit. And it sounds like you're the same way. You've written 40 books. Sometimes it's difficult to just be still. I always have to have that project to worry about. And thanks to my therapist, I know that that's a nervous system response. That's a nervous system response medicating me to try to run away from being here right now. And so it's okay once you have that in mind to do what you want. But realizing it is the hard part. Realizing it is the part where you have to be like, okay, my nervous system is telling me that I'm only doing this and I'm only stressing about this because I need something for it to stress about. We'll be right back. be right And so now that I know that, I can work on it, but not freak out if I don't do it, or not freak out if, you know, about having this thing. So, and allowing yourself to be kind to yourself and take breaks and do whatever else.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I think what you said about, you know, content being kind of sitting still, that's kind of exactly how I felt and feel. I just didn't know how to verbalize it. So thank you, because you just kind of gave me the more of an understanding of what I meant. Yeah, stillness is the middle way.   Michael Kent Like, it's the middle path. It's not the big hill you're trying to climb or the valley that you're falling into. It's just being. Yeah.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) And I love that. So I loved what you said about, like, if you were on a deserted island, what would you do to not suffer, right? Because you're not going to be happy sitting there on a deserted island every minute of every day. Like, you just can't. How does that translate? Out of relationships, right? So if you're not happy with yourself, you know, the theory is, and I 100% agree with it, but like, if you're not happy with yourself, you're not going to be happy with someone else because you're looking for what you're missing in someone else to come from someone else. So like, how does that, in your opinion, like, how does that translate?   Michael Kent Communication. I think you and your partner need to be able to tell each other how you're feeling. So I mean, it starts with you knowing how you're feeling, right? A lot of people just don't realize how they're feeling. But like, or a lot, you know, you might be feeling anxiety, but not know what the anxiety is about. And that's a perfectly acceptable thing to say to a partner, is that saying, I'm just on edge, and I don't know why. That's such a great thing to say. Because if you are short with your partner, and you didn't mean to be short with a partner, which is what most arguments start from, I think is like, you know, Someone's already have something going on by themselves, right? There's something in their life that they're stressed about, and they just accidentally put that on the other person in the act of normal conversation or whatever. If you start that by saying, by realizing, I'm really anxious today, or I'm really, I feel like I'm really on edge today. Just saying that can maybe stop that next interaction from blowing up into an argument or a fight. And because there's a little bit more communication and understanding of where the other person is coming from. And, you know, my wife and I both suffer from general anxiety at different times. And we both know that sometimes there's not a thing that triggers it. It's just there. And so we know that the answer isn't, why are you anxious? What's making you anxious? How can we make that go away? You know, sometimes the answer, a better answer is, what can I do to help? Which is... That's phrase that both of us use quite often with each other. And sometimes that question is enough to help. Because usually there's not a thing, you know, because our brains are weird and we don't understand them. And sometimes you just have anxiety about stuff. So what can I do to help is like one of the most loving things you can say to a partner. One of the most caring, one of the most efficient ways to show care is by saying, I'm here. That's all you're saying. You're not trying to solve problems. That's a big pet peeve of mine. That'll, that'll, if I tell someone my problem and I don't want them to solve it and they start trying to solve it, that is so frustrating. Not just relationship wise, but just in general, you know, family members, anything like that. Like sometimes I just want a . Just let me complain. And getting that complaint out is, is the purpose, right? So, you know, what can I do to help is like commit that to That statement, because there have been so many times my wife has said that to me, and it's all I needed to hear. Because what she's saying is, I'm here, I hear you, and I care. And that little bit of affirmation is enough to be like, oh, it's going to be fine. She's here to help me with whatever this is.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) So that's such a good point. And I teach that to a lot of people, especially college students, right? And you're not solving anyone's issue. Just ask what you can do. Be empathetic. I'm here with you, right? We're going to do this together. What do you need right now? You know, so I love that that's how you two communicate with each other and show support. We also both have anxiety and we both have bad days. I'll wake up sometimes and just be like, nope, this is one of those days I'm not getting out of bed. No bones day.   Michael Kent Yeah, yeah.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I'm going to melt into my couch and eat as much popcorn as my body can handle.   Michael Kent And that's my day, you know?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) But I love that. So what piece of advice would you give to... listeners, to our listeners, about having healthy relationships and maintaining a healthy relationship.   Michael Kent You have to be brutally honest with yourself about what it is that you're feeling and be able to be vulnerable enough to share that with this other person. That's the thing. Because I think most fights from unspoken things, most fights stem from unspoken things. And humans are just notoriously bad at working our brains. Sometimes we just don't know why we're thinking the way we're thinking. But if you can acknowledge it, it all of a sudden doesn't seem that bad. There's an analogy that I like to use. It's like most suffering in our lives is, it seems a lot larger than it actually is. Whether it's like physical pain, you know, our nerve endings send these signals to our brain that say, like, there's danger, something's wrong, you should know about this. lives. All And that's the siren, not the thing causing it. That's the that's the response. So the analogy I like to use is like on your car, you have like a headlight. And if you've ever seen what a headlight is, it's a tiny little light the size of a pinky. It's a tiny little thing that plugs in. And that creates hundreds of feet of of brightness in front of you because of the reflector. Most of the suffering that we experience in our lives, we perceive from the receptor, not realizing that the thing that's causing the pain is the pinky is the little tiny little the tiny little element that's inside that thing. And so if you can find a way during painful moments, whether it be emotional pain or physical pain, to focus on the pain and what's causing it, it can actually alleviate some of the pain. It can alleviate some of the suffering because you're able to look at what attachment it might be that that brought you to that point. Or what it is. And it takes a lot of work to be brutally honest with yourself to know how you're feeling in order to communicate it. And you have to have a partner who is on that journey with you and receptive to hearing about that. Which is tough because a lot of people, when they hear someone's problems, they want to do what we were just talking about. They want to try to solve them. They feel like that's their job. And sometimes, you know, you just need to . That's sometimes all you need. I had a long conversation about that.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) My mom is a problem solver. And so I'd call her and just really want to vent. And she would try and solve the problem. And I'd be like, no, mom, I just want to talk. Right? So we've developed a system where if I call her to, you know, for anything, she'll stop before she says anything and say, is this for comfort or for advice? Like, do you want me to just sit and listen? Or do you actually want me to advise and you want my opinion? And then I get to choose. That's a huge win.   Michael Kent mean, what an evolved thing to be able to say, like. And that's because that's like, what she's asking you is, would you like me to turn my maternal instinct that's inside of my body and I can't get rid of off for a moment? And it's probably hard, really hard for her to do that. Because that's just a, I think that's just a parent thing. Parents hear your problems and it's been their job, you know, for the first 18 years of their life, it was their job to absolutely solve those problems for you. No questions asked. And so it's hard. It's got to be, I'm not a parent, so I don't know, but it's got to be hard to turn that off and be like, okay, I'll just listen. Yeah.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I mean, I can't, I had to remind her many a time, but we finally got to a point where I feel comfortable and safe talking to her. Whereas in the past I would call her for something and she would advise, advise, advise. And I'd be like, I don't want your advice. And it would, it actually caused a lot of rifts in our relationship. So it was, it took work, but, but we're in a good spot where like, she's very respectful of, of what I need, whether I want to just vent or, or get advice. So that could be really good way.   Michael Kent If you're listening, Marissa's mother, good job. Good work.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Thanks, Amy. You call your mom by your first name?   Michael Kent No.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Oh, okay. That was just for the show. Okay. Thanks, Amy.   Michael Kent I can say it. You can say it.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) So thank you for that advice. That was really helpful. I think even to kind of, it was, it is. And to kind of spin off that, not just to tell, you know, yes, tell like, I'm feeling anxious today. And being honest about it. So instead of saying something like, you know, you're always at work and we never talk, right? It's, I feel lonely, right? So like, I feel like I'm not a priority to you, right? Personalizing it. So you're not talking about this symptom. You're talking about the cause, right? I feel lonely. It feels like you're prioritizing work or it feels like you're prioritizing your friends or it feels like you're whatever over me, right? So it's addressing the things that you're feeling, but also making it honest.   Michael Kent And you also have to learn sometimes to sort of reframe that, that statement. So like, you know, if my wife says to me, you're always gone. My tendency is to hear that as what do you want me to do? Not work, not have money. You like, you know, like you're, my tendency is to hear it as a complaint. But I can reframe it to mean she's complaining because she wants me to be around more because she likes Like, you know what I mean? Like that's, you can reframe these types of things and think like, what is, what is this person really saying to me? And, you know, and that's the common thing that people say in relationships when there's some sort of issue is like, what's wrong? And the other person will say, I'm just tired. It's just the easiest thing to say. And it's usually a cop out. I mean, you could legitimately be tired, but usually there's something else going on. Even if you don't know what it is, or, you know, it might be depression, it might be anxiety, but usually it's not just that you're tired, but it could be. I mean, it could be, I do not have the ability to have an in-depth conversation right now because I'm emotionally exhausted or I'm physically exhausted or whatever it might be, and then sometimes you just have some space, but that goes back to communication, right? Like, that's a huge part of a relationship. Yeah.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) It's my three pillars, right? My triangle of healthy relationships, communication, respect, and trust, right? If you don't have all three of those things, you don't have a healthy relationship. If you can't communicate and resolve issues, right? If you can't trust each other to be honest and vulnerable, and then you don't feel like you're being respected or like your needs are being met by your partner, like the boundaries or what you say, you know, are not being respected, then you don't have a healthy relationship. And even missing one of those three, just the communication piece alone is so important. You know, it was trust, communication.   Michael Kent What was the third pillar?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Respect. Respect. Okay. Yep, yep. If you don't have one of the three, right, you don't have a healthy relationship because trust is built on respecting communication.   Michael Kent Yeah, they all are interrelated, right? Yeah.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) And so it's important that you have, you know, that strong communication because no one wants to wake up every day and resent your partner because of an issue that happened 10 years ago. And I use Friends, the show Friends is a great reference for that because if you look at Ross and Rachel, right, they had one fight one time in like season two and they never talked about it. Like they talked about it, but it was always very nitpicky and jabby and aggressive.   Michael Kent Yeah. And so then by season 10, like there's still, I think it was 10, right?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) There's still, were they on a break? Were they not on a break? I don't know. Cause they never had a 15 minute sit down, honest discussion about it. And so they are such an unhealthy relationship. But everyone's like, I want the Ross and Rachel kind of love.   Michael Kent And I'm like, no, you don't. No one would have watched if it was a healthy relationship. That's where most of the conflict and the storylines came from.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) In any show, right? The only show I can currently think of where the two protagonists have a very healthy relationship is Nobody Wants This. Have you seen that? No. Oh, it's so good. It's Adam Brody and Kristen Bell. But the toxic relationships. weird? I think I have two friends that are in that show. Oh.   Michael Kent And I've never watched it.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I do have two friends that are in that show. Like, I've never watched it.   Michael Kent And I have no excuse for that. So I'm sorry, friends.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) It's a really good show. But Adam Brody and Kristen Bell's characters, anytime there's conflict and there's a lot of external conflict, they have a conversation about it and they work it out together and they understand. So even when one is feeling slighted or one is feeling put off, they have a conversation about it and they resolve it. The rest of the conflict is from external sources. So you're seeing these two people. It's like us against the world, but in a very positive way. And so more shows, I think, are going to start to have that similar dynamic. But up until now, and I do this at colleges all the time, think of a TV show or your favorite movie and think of a healthy relationship dynamic that's in it. It doesn't need to be 100% healthy all the time because that's not realistic. But think of one relationship where through the arc of the show, it is built on healthy principles. Yeah, I can't. It's so hard. It is really hard. Because conflict, like we're addicted to that conflict. That's why we watch the reality TV shows, right? Love is Blind. It's all built on conflict. It's nonsense. Right. Real housewives and all that. It's all conflict. They're all unhealthy. It's all produced on purpose that way.   Michael Kent Also, like, you know, there was probably a push in the 60s that was like, we need TV couples to fight and to be unhealthy because real couples are. And people don't want to see the 50s, you know, Cleaver family, like perfect relationships because it doesn't they don't identify with it. So it might be a thing of like where, you know, reality, art imitates life rather than life imitating art.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) But I think the pendulum swung too far. Right. Now we look at like we've got Walter and Skylar White, who it's like impossible to know who's telling the truth and who's not. Right. And I mean, now we've set terrible expectations. Right. So in the 50s with Leave it to Beaver and all that, we set a terrible expectation for women. Right. If you are not happy and made up, if you don't like look at Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Did you watch that show? I watched. Right.   Michael Kent Real housewives and all that. It's all conflict.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) They're all unhealthy. It's all produced on purpose that way. Also, like, you know, there was probably a push in the 60s that was like, we need TV couples to fight and to be unhealthy because real couples are. And people don't want to see the 50s, you know, Cleaver family, like perfect relationships because it doesn't they don't identify with it. So it might be a thing of like where, you know, reality, art imitates life rather than life imitating art. But I think the pendulum swung too far. Right. Now we look at like we've got Walter and Skylar White, who it's like impossible to know who's telling the truth and who's not. Right. And I mean, now we've set terrible expectations. Right. So in the 50s with Leave it to Beaver and all that, we set a terrible expectation for women. Right. If you are not happy and made up, if you don't like look at Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. Did you watch that show? I watched.   Michael Kent Some of it, but I'm currently rewatching Mad Men, but it's a similar era and the same vibe, yeah. If the woman isn't made up, hair perfect, dinner on the table the second the father gets home, right? Then if that's not what you're doing, you're a bad wife. Whereas now, it's like, you know, if you're not fighting about dumb stuff or if, you know, one of the people in the relationship isn't just a complete follower. Like, one person's not allowed to have an opinion and the other person has an opinion or whatever the dynamic is, right? It sets a terrible precedent for what people are willing to accept, which is why I have such a fundamentally challenging time at colleges when I do this activity. And inevitably, somebody will say, you know, well, Joker and Harley Quinn, I want that kind of love. Like, that's a healthy relationship. There's not a moment of time where that's a healthy relationship. But like when Suicide Squad came out, how many young women do you know dressed up like Harley Quinn for Halloween? Yeah. Yeah, there's a similar thing right now with one of my focuses with my career is engagement and dealing with, particularly in the corporate sphere, dealing with apathy and people who are not wanting to open themselves up to connect with other people. And it is somewhat generational, which I hate to say, but this is more of a younger person problem than an older person problem. And when you look at a very famous quote that came from Schitt's Creek, I'm trying really hard not to connect with people right now. It's on sweaters, it's on tote bags, it's on bumper stickers, and it's funny, but I hate it because it is contagion. Like there are people that now think like staying in and binge watching Netflix is a replacement for real live connection. And we are all needing more connection. And it becomes, you know, it's cliche to say, like, you know, because of the internet and social media and all that, but we need connection. We, like, people need connection to be fulfilled in our lives. It's how we, we are a very social species. And so everyone, when they get in that room with friends and they're connected, feels amazing. And if there's those times when you're in that room and you don't feel amazing, it's because you're not connected, which means you're either not present or you're not listening or you're not, you know what I mean?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Like, but when you really, truly feel connected, there's no feeling like that. And it's, we're setting a really bad example by having these types of quotes, like, I'm really trying hard not to connect with people right now as, like, a popular feeling. Because it's, it becomes more than just a TV, you know, line. It becomes like... A whole culture type of thing where you're just, you know, this is more preferable. And I get it. It is more preferable sometimes to not like it feels more safe to just stay at home. But it's sort of lazy and it's sort of it's an easy way to you're letting your nervous system win. You're letting your, you know, your anxieties and everything win when you could be a much more fulfilled, happy person if you content person. If you do allow yourself to connect and be open to connection. Yeah. So fun fact, you might, you might be able to use this on your podcast, but the Eastern State Penitentiary in Philadelphia was the first penitentiary in the country that tried using isolation as a tactic as like a punishment for inmates. And what they found, yeah. So what they would do is like, they'd have everybody, um, uh, In their cells, staggered outdoor time. So they'd never know who was outside with them, and they couldn't see anyone. And they were all in like little, literally high wall, brick wall, five by five outdoor spaces. So they were completely isolated from each other. And they did not have any interaction with anybody, not in their cell, not around their cell, nothing. They were on one wall, separated by walls. And what they found was that within a few months of that lack of connection to anyone, these men went crazy.   Michael Kent They went bananas. They tried to unalive themselves. They like were starting to hallucinate and like having severe mental health like backlash from it. So it's not, you know, it is in us. It's biological, that need for connection. And so phrases like I'm trying really hard not to, you know, connect with people right now. I agree with you. It's very funny. I love Schitt's Creek. I'm rewatching it for like the 18th time right now. I just watched that episode. It's like the second episode. But it really does set a bad precedent. And then you have the backlash of that where the loneliness epidemic. And when I go to colleges, a lot of these advisors are talking about, my students come to me and say, I feel like I have no friends, like I'm not connected. But then they have events and the students don't come out to events, right? So it's kind of like you're shooting, you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. Yeah, it's a huge problem. And outside, I don't know whether or not in the higher education world, if this is as much of an issue, but it definitely fuels addiction in the real world. The isolation fuels addiction. And have you ever heard of the Rat Park study? There's a famous study in the 70s. I think it was in Canada, but like British Columbia. Basically, they had a bunch of mice or lab rats or whatever. And they gave them access to, in their water bottle, they had like drugs in the water bottle, like morphine or cocaine or something in the water bottle. And the rats that were isolated constantly drugged themselves, but the rats that were in a community of other rats did not. That's so interesting. Yeah, and it's been used for, you know, for 40 years as this or 50 years as this study that shows that, like, we need connection. We need connection because we don't have connection. find other ways to satisfy our, I don't know if that's our nervous system or whatever that is in us. But we end up, you know, basically the connection aspect of it replaces the need to get dopamine from other things, right?   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) So we're getting dopamine from those connections, which is critically important to our data. And it might not be substance abuse, right, particularly in those instances like you were talking about where the college students complain and then they don't leave.   Michael Kent Well, they might be getting dopamine from scrolling Instagram or scrolling TikTok or reading or watching Netflix or whatever it is that they're doing. I'm not saying any one of those things is worse than the other.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I'm just saying all of them are a thing you do when you're not connecting. If that becomes a replacement for connection to get your dopamine, that's when you're going to be, you know, basically you have to keep feeding that beast, you know, and keep you because that's where addiction comes from. need to keep feeding that dopamine thing because you're not getting it naturally. So I think the key here is, right, even if it's uncomfortable or if it feels, you know, weird, especially post-COVID, right, which I think creates...   Michael Kent Created a lot of disconnection. It's finding that connection somehow. And so it kind of takes you away from, you know, trying to find it in other sources. Is that, I love that. absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we, I think like just natural human connection provides a lot of dopamine. Yeah. But that's if you're actually connecting. That doesn't mean being in a room with a person. means actually connecting. Yeah. That's really interesting. I feel like we've overshot your episode. This is gonna be like three different episodes. No, this is great. Honestly, I love this conversation. I was going to say like, I think we, you know, I could talk to you about this kind of all day. I love your perspective. But we should probably, we should probably get on with our days, you know, but thank you so much, Michael, for being here. Would you mind, I know you just put out a book. So would you mind talking about that for a second, telling everyone where they can get it, how they can reach you? Yeah, I selected more than 50 episodes or topics. pass.,ages, take you It's from my podcast, The Internet Says It's True, and compiled them into sort of like a bathroom reader style book. So you pick this thing up, and each story is only three or four pages, and they're all these amazing stories that sound made up but are really true.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Like, for instance, one of the stories is about how before the Teachers in Space program from the Challenger space shuttle mission, their first idea was to put Big Bird in space.   Michael Kent And I did an entire episode about how they really were going to, and Carol Spinney, the guy inside Big Bird costume, agreed to it and wanted to do it. And so we talk about that and, like, why it eventually failed and didn't, you know, that's what launched the Teachers in Space program. So there's stories like that that were, like, you know, make you say there's no way that's true, and they're all true. And at the end of every chapter, there's a QR code that you can scan that links you to the episode where you get to hear not only, you know, that story, but then also...   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) A quiz with a guest, like we did with you on my previous two episodes. So, but yeah, you can find that wherever you buy books.   Michael Kent It's called The Internet Says It's True, Stories That Sound Made Up But Aren't. Thank you so much.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Thank you so much, Michael, for being here, for having this conversation. It felt very, I know we covered kind of a wide range of topics, but I think that it was all very valid and very, like, fascinating.   Michael Kent So thank you, and I'd love to have you back on any time that you'd like.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I would love to.   Michael Kent This is, I agree with you.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) We could have just kept going because I love to talk about things that aren't magic and aren't, you know, history. Like if I can get to a point where I can just talk about real world stuff that, you know, is affecting all of us, I love that. So I envy what you do for a living, that you're helping people in a way that's like very connecting A to B in a straight line, you know?   Michael Kent So it's really cool.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) Thank you very much.   Michael Kent And I love what you do.   Marissa F. Cohen (Marissa F. Cohen) I think magic is so fascinating and comedy just makes. People happy. I wish I was funnier. I always laugh when I'm talking to you, so. Oh, it's usually at me, but I appreciate it anyways. Well, you have a very happy new year, you and Larry, and it's good to talk to you again. Thank you. You too. That was awesome. Thank you very much. very welcome. Absolutely. Yeah, that was a lot of fun. Oh, good. And truly, anytime you want to come back. I will. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like we covered everything in the first episode. My episodes always range. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So now I'm going to record my two episodes, and I won't have to do anything next week. Woo! Thank you. So I have one set up for this week and next week, so this will be probably January 21st, and when it goes up, I'll send it. me in it, and yep. Will do. Sounds great. Okay. Thanks, Marissa. Thanks, Michael. Have a good one. All right. You too. Bye. Bye.

In this episode of Don't Hide The Scars, hosted by Jason LaChance alongside Flindt Andersen, Founder and Executive Director of PAIN: Parents & Addicts In Need, Greg Glod joins the panel to expose the hard truths behind the failed War on Drugs, the fentanyl epidemic, and why America continues to treat addiction with punishment instead of care.From the origins of drug criminalization and racialized policy, to the realities of detox, insurance barriers, methadone dependency, and trauma-driven substance use, this episode dives deep into what actually fuels addiction—and what doesn't. The discussion explores Rat Park, fentanyl economics, relapse rates, incarceration failures, and why connection—not sobriety alone—is the true opposite of addiction.This episode is essential viewing for: Parents navigating addiction in their families People in recovery or struggling with substance use Clinicians, treatment professionals, and advocates Anyone questioning whether our current system truly helps—or harms If we don't change incentives, treatment models, and public understanding, nothing changes. This conversation tells the truth that many systems avoid.

Send us a textTwo women from different worlds trace how God braided their paths into a shared calling. We explore why receiving feels risky, how connection reshapes the nervous system, and what happens when scripture, science, and sisterhood meet.Let's dive into:• the ache of not belonging in women's spaces• how our stories intertwined into a shared mission• faith and wellness as complementary, not competing• why many women struggle to receive care• Rat Park as a lens on connection and behavior• practical rhythms that cue nervous system safety• scripture, science, and sisterhood as one pathWelcome to Heart and Soul Elevation. Episode one, coming soon.Support the show Feeling soul-tired and ready for something more?

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Clayton J. Baker – Bruce Alexander challenges the idea that addiction is a loss of will or soul. Through the Rat Park experiment and years of human observation, he shows addiction arises from isolation and despair, not chemistry alone. When people gain connection, purpose, and belonging, the grip of drugs weakens and often disappears entirely...

America Out Loud PULSE with Dr. Clayton J. Baker – Bruce Alexander challenges the idea that addiction is a loss of will or soul. Through the Rat Park experiment and years of human observation, he shows addiction arises from isolation and despair, not chemistry alone. When people gain connection, purpose, and belonging, the grip of drugs weakens and often disappears entirely...

Are you addicted to something? This podcast delves into questions such as; What is addiction? What causes addiction? What are the symptoms of addiction? And how can we treat addiction? Whether you struggle with substance abuse or simply an unhealthy habit, this podcast will explain addiction causes and addiction symptoms so that you can get a better understanding of why you might be dependent on certain substances or activities to help you through your daily life.Whether your addiction was encouraged by the stress of a busy and emotional life, or perhaps trauma from a dark past, or even your genetics, passed from generation to generation, addiction is very common and you are not alone.If you or somebody you know is struggling with an addiction, this story might be able to help you better understand and deal with what you are going through. It uses information gathered from peer reviewed journals as well as experts like Gabor Mate, Johann Hari, Anna Lembke and Bessel van der Kolk.PART 1- Looks into addiction research such as the famous study involving Rat Park.PART 2- Discusses the underlying causes of addiction and how they can affect us. PART 3- Shares 6 methods of treating addiction; cold turkey, medical detox, cognitive behavioural therapy, group therapy, motivational interviewing and rehabilitation.Get guest updates and submit your listener questions via Instagram: https://instagram.com/travellingscience/

You quit drinking — you did the hard thing — but life still doesn't feel the way you thought it would.Why does peace feel so uncomfortable? Why does it seem like, even in sobriety, you're still trying to escape something?In this episode, Tim digs into one of the hardest — and most important — lessons in recovery: learning how to build a life that actually feels worth staying for.He shares how even years into sobriety, he found himself trapped in a new kind of cage — surrounded by people, yet disconnected from his true self.You'll learn why quitting isn't enough, how comfort can quietly become a new addiction, and what it really takes to create peace that lasts.If you've ever felt like sobriety should feel better than it does — this episode will help you understand why, and show you how to start changing that.Key Topics Covered:Why “just quitting” doesn't fix the real problemHow disconnection fuels addiction (and what to do about it)The Rat Park story and what it teaches us about environment and healingThe danger of comfort and why peace often feels uncomfortableHow to reconnect with yourself, others, and your purposeA reflection challenge to help you start building instead of escaping

Are you struggling to break habits that hold you back? On this final episode of our addiction series, I sit down with my friend Cole Zick to uncover the truth about overcoming addiction. We dive into why habits persist, the role of environment, and how small and drastic changes can transform your life. This episode isn't about shame—it's about strategy, mindset, and freedom.We explore life-changing insights from studies like the New York subway revitalization, Vietnam veterans' heroin recovery, and the Rat Park experiments. Learn why context matters more than willpower and how your environment may be silently keeping you stuck. Whether you struggle with phone addiction, unhealthy friendships, or other habits, this episode gives you the tools to reset your life and win.I also share practical steps you can take today: changing toxic contexts, building new routines, embodying change, and tools like the Be Present app to limit screen time and regain focus. If you're ready to reclaim your strength, walk in freedom, and live the life you were made for, this episode is for you.Listen, share, and subscribe to Brave Co Podcast to never miss an episode! If this episode blesses you, send it to another man who could benefit—because transformation starts with one brave step.Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction: Why Masculinity is Under Attack01:00 - The Final Episode of the Addiction Series03:00 - Cole Zick: Experience in Addiction Recovery and Leadership05:00 - Redefining Addiction: Beyond Drugs and Alcohol07:00 - Understanding the Power of Context in Overcoming Addiction10:00 - The Subway & Vietnam Veteran Studies: Lessons in Context15:00 - Drastic Changes That Can Reset Your Life20:00 - Practical Tools: Changing Your Environment and Habits24:00 - Apps & Small Wins: Managing Phone and Screen Addiction26:00 - Closing Prayer & Final Encouragement for Brave Men

I've spent my life as a pastor and counselor, helping men find strength, clarity, and purpose. In this episode, I kick off a game-changing series focused on addiction—whether it's alcohol, porn, overeating, or prescription meds. I get raw about my own 14-year struggle with masturbation, porn, and medications like clonazepam—and how I learned that real freedom isn't about willpower, it's about rewiring our lives around connection.We dive into pivotal research, like the Rat Park experiment, which shows addiction thrives in isolation—not substance. When rats are connected and nurtured, addiction evaporates. That truth hits hard because most of us men were raised without proper emotional connection. We were wired for chaos, trauma, and triggers—so we medicate. But medication without connection falls short.I unpack the 4 pillars of deep relationship—courage, authenticity, compassion, vulnerability—borrowing from Brené Brown and my own journey. These aren't personality traits, they're strategies. A life rebuilt on these principles isn't just free from addiction—it's alive, present, wired for purpose. Stick around—I'll show how to reclaim your story, feel worthy of love, and build bonds that empower real healing.00:00 - Intro & Purpose: Why this addiction series matters00:35 - Personal Stakes: My lifelong struggle with addiction01:59 - My Story: From masturbation and porn to medication dependency04:14 - Defining Addiction: “Giving up what you want for what you don't want”06:12 - Signs We Are All Addicts: Driven, desperate, but often unaware07:36 - Addiction is a Symptom: Trading one compulsion for another09:36 - Rat Park Experiment: Community vs. isolation12:07 - The Real Opposite of Addiction: Connection over sobriety15:07 - Childhood Wiring: Why we feel unsafe, unseen, unheard22:04 - Two Essential Connections: Deep bonds and tribe belonging25:21 - The 4 Pillars of Connection39:05 - The Path to Crushing AddictionABOUT BRAVECOWe live in a time where men are hunting for the truth and looking for the codebook to manhood. At BraveCo, we are on a mission to heal the narrative of masculinity across a generation; fighting the good fight together because every man should feel confident and capable of facing his pain, loving deeply, and leading a life that impacts the world around him.

In this episode, I'm sharing a personal journey I've been on to reclaim my time, focus, and presence—and how I've been using the Roots App to set healthier boundaries around screen time. If you've ever found yourself mindlessly scrolling through your phone, feeling distracted even when you're with your family, or constantly bouncing between apps and tasks, this episode is for you. I talk openly about: My own struggles with screen overuse (especially in motherhood) Why our phones are wired to pull us in (and how it's not your fault!) The link between screen time and mental health, productivity, and even parenting What I've learned from the Roots App and how it's helped me retrain my brain Why presence—not perfection—is the real goal We also dive into some eye-opening research, including the “switch cost” effect, the Rat Park study, and how being bored again might actually be the secret to living a more meaningful life. If you're craving more focus, clarity, and intention in your day-to-day—this episode will speak to you. Thank you to Roots App for sponsoring this episode! This app has been a game-changer for helping me reduce screen time, be more present with my kids, and live more aligned with what actually matters.

Welcome to today's episode! I am so pumped about this episode, I talk all about breaking social media addiction and that constant phone scroll. I'll also share the learnings of the Rat Park study by Dr. Bruce Alexander and what it teaches us about how our environment and connections impact addiction. I'll give you some practical tips to cut down on social media and start creating your own ‘Rat Park' - a life full of connection and limit compulsive behaviours. Join the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠DYFM Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Group  Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@doyoufkingmind⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠on IG   Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@dyfmpodcast⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠on TT Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@⁠⁠⁠⁠alexisfernandezpreiksa⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠on IG    Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@alexispredez⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on TT Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@mindsetrecreationclub⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠on IG    Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@mindsetrecreationclub⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ on TT Order your Brain Journal here: ⁠⁠⁠www.mindsetrecreationclub.com⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tawny and Lisa talk with Carl Erik Fisher, an addiction physician, bioethicist, person in recovery, and author of The Urge: Our History of Addiction. Carl recently wrote a powerful essay, The Price We Pay Betting on Sports, for The New York Times. They talk about sports betting, how it's changed with 24/7 online availability and cultural normalization, as well as the associated risks and ways to address them. Music Minute features audiobooks, EPIC: The Musical, and The Odyssey  Check out Carl's Substack newsletter, Rat Park. Find all things Carl at carlerikfisher.com Check Carl out on Instagram and other socials @DrCarlErik    Order The Sobriety Deck  Listen to The Sobriety Deck Playlist by Hannah Gardner Order Tawny's book, DRY HUMPING: A Guide to Dating, Relating, and Hooking Up Without the Booze Subscribe to Tawny's newsletter, "Beyond Liquid Courage" Order Tawny's new NA drink, (parentheses) Purchase Lisa's memoir, Girl Walks Out of a Bar   

Dive into a thought-provoking episode of the Libertarian Christian Podcast with host Cody Cook and guest Jane Clair Tyner, Communications Manager at End It For Good. This compelling conversation challenges conventional views on drug addiction and explores health-centered approaches over punitive measures. Jane shares insights from End It For Good's mission, drawing from founder Christina Dent's transformative journey detailed in her book Curious. From Dr. Bruce Alexander's groundbreaking Rat Park study to the harsh realities of the justice system, they unravel the complexities of addiction, debunk the "demon drug" myth, and discuss the societal impacts of prohibition. Jane's personal story adds a heartfelt dimension, urging listeners to rethink drug policy with empathy and evidence. Tune in for a fresh perspective on balancing grace, liberty, and responsibility in addressing one of society's toughest issues. Find resources and connect at enditforgood.com!Additional resources:End It For Good's podcast interviews with Dr. Bruce Alexander: Ep. 14 on the Rat Park experiment, Ep. 15 on a deeper dive into addiction and recovery.End It For Good's core resource page.Audio Production by Podsworth Media - https://podsworth.com ★ Support this podcast ★

Bruce Alexander is a psychologist and professor emeritus at Simon Fraser University. He actively taught at SFU from 1970 to 2005. In this interview, he will speak about many of the pivotal experiences he had during that time. One of which, occurred during the 70s, while he was volunteering at a methadone clinic in Vancouver's downtown eastside. There, he would engage in conversations with heroin users, and learn more about why they chose to use the drug. These talks would help set him on a path to conducting an experiment that questioned the standard beliefs of the day about drug addiction - The Rat Park Experiment. Bruce will share many interesting stories from his life, and give some fascinating insights about his lifetime search for the truth about addiction. All that, and much more. ___________________________________________________________________________ If you are interested in learning more about recording an audio memoir, for yourself, or for a loved one, please click on this, or go to myaudiomemoir.com to find out more. ____________________________________________________________________________ To stay up-to-date with new episodes, here are some of the ways you can subscribe... Spotify- https://open.spotify.com/show/64GCX2abpl8GfJ1AzjPQiB Facebook-https://www.facebook.com/thestoriesthatbroughtyouhere YouTube - YouTube - The Stories That Brought You Here 

Hey friends,I'm giving a talk tonight at a beach party

The opioid epidemic continues to devastate families and communities across America, leaving researchers and clinicians desperately searching for new treatment approaches. What if a compound found in mushrooms could help break the cycle of addiction? In this riveting conversation, Alex Dorr welcomes Dr. Stephanie Daves from Temple University's Center for Substance Abuse Research to discuss her groundbreaking work exploring how psilocybin might combat heroin addiction.Dr. Daves shares her personal journey into addiction research, motivated partly by witnessing the devastating impacts of substance use disorders firsthand. She explains the science behind addiction as a chronic disease—not simply a matter of willpower—where individuals prioritize obtaining and using substances despite severe negative consequences to their lives and relationships.The heart of their conversation revolves around fascinating research showing how psilocybin targets the serotonin 2A receptor, which changes in the brains of rats exposed to heroin. While psilocybin didn't prevent rats from taking heroin when available, it significantly reduced drug-seeking behavior during simulated relapse scenarios. Dr. Daves hypothesizes that beyond psychedelic experiences, psilocybin may work through anti-inflammatory pathways in the brain, potentially offering a new mechanism for addiction treatment.They explore the distinctions between two therapeutic approaches: high-dose sessions producing profound psychedelic experiences versus microdosing protocols where individuals take sub-perceptual amounts. Each approach may benefit different individuals or conditions, highlighting the need for personalized treatment strategies. The discussion also touches on how environmental factors and social connections play crucial roles in recovery, drawing parallels to the famous "Rat Park" experiments.Despite promising results, the conversation reveals significant challenges in addiction research, including lengthy study timelines and difficulties securing consistent funding. As communities continue fighting the opioid crisis, this research offers hope through innovative approaches that might help address both the biological and psychological aspects of substance use disorders.Ready to explore the fascinating world of functional mushrooms? Visit mushroomrevival.com and use code "podtreat" for a special discount on our organic mushroom products.www.mushroomrevival.comWe are a functional mushroom company and make 100% certified USDA Organic and Vegan mushroom supplements. We are transparent with our lab results, and use actual fruiting bodies aka mushrooms! We provide our supplements in tincture, capsule, powder, and delicious gummy form. Energy (Cordyceps): Need a little pick-me-up before a workout or when you're picking up your kids from school? The Energy Cordyceps is the mushy match for you.Focus (Lion's Mane):  Needing a little more focus in your daily life? Lion's Mane is known to be the mushroom for the brain and may support cognitive function.Calm (Reishi): Looking for some tranquility and zen in your life? Reishi will bring you into the zen state of mind you've been searching for.Daily 10 (Mushroom Mix): It's like having 10 bodyguard mushrooms fighting off all those bad guys. This is a good place to start as it contains all of the daily mushies you need. Not sure where to begin? Take our mushroom quiz here.

In this episode of Alcohol Minimalist, Molly speaks once again with Dr. Carl Erik Fisher, an addiction psychiatrist, author, and person in recovery, to discuss the complexities of addiction beyond just alcohol. We explore the fascinating (and often overlooked) intersection between behavioral addictions—like gambling—and substance use disorders.Dr. Fisher recently penned a compelling piece for The New York Times about the public health consequences of gambling addiction, especially in light of the recent surge in sports betting. He shares insights on why we need to move beyond a binary approach to addiction—where you're either "an addict" or "fine"—and instead recognize the spectrum of harmful behaviors that can impact anyone. They also discuss:✅ How gambling and alcohol addiction share common psychological patterns✅ Why addiction isn't just about loss of control but also about societal and environmental influences✅ The impact of marketing and corporate interests in promoting problematic behaviors✅ How our cultural narratives around addiction shape recovery and treatment options✅ Practical ways to rethink our own habits and reduce harmDr. Fisher's expertise and thoughtful perspective challenge conventional ideas about addiction and highlight why we need a more nuanced public health approach to substance use and compulsive behaviors. If you've ever wondered where you fit on the spectrum of alcohol use—or how to better navigate your relationship with alcohol—this episode is for you.About Dr. Carl Erik Fisher:Dr. Carl Erik Fisher is an addiction physician, bioethicist, writer, and person in long-term recovery. He is an associate professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University and author of The Urge: Our History of Addiction, which was named one of the best books of the year by The New Yorker and The Boston Globe. His work has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Guardian, and Scientific American Mind. Dr. Fisher also hosts Flourishing After Addiction and runs the Rat Park newsletter on Substack.Links & Resources:

Addiction and How to Break Free In today's episode, we dive into a powerful concept that challenges the traditional narrative around addiction. What if addiction isn't about the substance or behavior itself but about a lack of connection? As the Quilter's Coach, I'm here to help you uncover the deeper issues behind the habits that hold you back—whether it's sugar, scrolling, shopping, or people-pleasing. We'll explore why connection, both with others and yourself, is the true antidote to addiction. Through personal coaching stories, compelling research, and actionable strategies, I'll show you how understanding your habits and reconnecting with your inner wisdom can transform your life. I also share a touching story of a client who overcame her struggles with perfectionism and people-pleasing to host a stress-free event, showing how connection to self can reduce anxiety and increase joy. Plus, we'll take a closer look at groundbreaking studies, like the Rat Park experiment, that illustrate how community and connection play a vital role in overcoming addiction. In this episode, you'll learn: Why addiction isn't just about chemical hooks—it's about the need for connection. How perfectionism and self-judgment keep you stuck in unhealthy patterns. The importance of vulnerability in building stronger relationships with yourself and others. Practical tools for reconnecting with your purpose and breaking free from habits that no longer serve you. Resources and Links: Book a discovery call with me for personalized coaching: https://daratomasson.com/contact/ Learn more about the Rat Park experiment and its insights on addiction: https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2015/02/12/portugal-cut-drug-addiction-rates-in-half-by-connecting-users-with-communities This episode is a reminder that you're not broken—you just haven't learned how to connect deeply with yourself. Let's break the cycle of addiction and create a life of purpose, joy, and fulfillment. Subscribe and Share: If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe and share it with someone who could benefit. Don't forget to leave a review—it helps others discover the podcast! Watch this episode on Youtube Grab this week's episode worksheet HERE. Checkout other Episodes HERE. Let's start connecting and creating a life you love, one stitch at a time.

Will women lose rights under President Donald Trump? Sara Huff, formerly one of the most influential feminist in Brazil, joins Trending with Timmerie. (2:47) Are we living through some of the most challenging times for women? (23:00) Human flourishment.  When are we at our best? (42:02)  Resources mentioned :  Listen to Sarah's story: how she became a feminist https://relevantradio.com/2024/08/the-most-influential-feminists-in-brazil-interview/   Sara's Instagram  https://www.instagram.com/thesarahuff/    Sara's book in Spanish  https://www.amazon.com/C%C3%B3mo-fabricar-una-feminista-rescatarla/dp/1400336988    Nearly 70% of Abortions Are Coerced, Unwanted or Inconsistent With Women's Preferences https://lozierinstitute.org/hidden-epidemic-nearly-70-of-abortions-are-coerced-unwanted-or-inconsistent-with-womens-preferences/   Healing from Abortion  https://supportafterabortion.com/   More Episodes with Sara Huff https://relevantradio.com/?cat=23210&s=Sara+Huff   Paradox of Female Happiness research  https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/pdf/Intellectual_Life/Stevenson_ParadoxDecliningFemaleHappiness_Dec08.pdf   Environmental enrichment protects against the acquisition of cocaine self-administration in adult male rats, but does not eliminate avoidance of a drug-associated saccharin cue https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22157144/   What can the Rat Park experiment teach us about addiction? https://www.ukat.co.uk/blog/medicine/what-can-the-rat-park-experiment-teach-us-about-addiction/  

In this episode of 'Change Made Easy', Paul Levitin jumps into how addiction science can inspire healthier habits and remove negative behaviors. JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY The discussion highlights the limited role of willpower, the powerful influence of environment on behavior, and insights from historical studies like Operation Golden Flow and the Rat Park experiment. Key Moments: 00:00 Introduction: The Prevalence of Addiction 01:26 Understanding Addiction and Behavior Change 03:26 The Broader Implications of Addiction 05:30 The Role of Environment in Behavior Change 06:11 Addiction Experiments: Rats and Veterans 07:02 The Surprising End of Heroin Use Among Vietnam Soldiers 07:39 The Rat Park Experiment: Environment vs. Addiction 09:40 Connecting the Dots: Environment's Role in Addiction 10:50 Applying the Science: Curate Your Environment for Success 11:33 Action Steps: Making Change Easier

In this episode of 'Change Made Easy', Paul Levitin jumps into how addiction science can inspire healthier habits and remove negative behaviors. JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY JOIN THE FREE FACEBOOK COMMUNITY The discussion highlights the limited role of willpower, the powerful influence of environment on behavior, and insights from historical studies like Operation Golden Flow and the Rat Park experiment. Key Moments: 00:00 Introduction: The Prevalence of Addiction 01:26 Understanding Addiction and Behavior Change 03:26 The Broader Implications of Addiction 05:30 The Role of Environment in Behavior Change 06:11 Addiction Experiments: Rats and Veterans 07:02 The Surprising End of Heroin Use Among Vietnam Soldiers 07:39 The Rat Park Experiment: Environment vs. Addiction 09:40 Connecting the Dots: Environment's Role in Addiction 10:50 Applying the Science: Curate Your Environment for Success 11:33 Action Steps: Making Change Easier

Chapter 12 The crew of the Smokin' Dandy learn more about the village of Fainbedh, perhaps more than they every wanted to know. Can they put aside their cultural differences or will grim reveals reopen old wounds? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Imagine feeling so alone that you can't even recognize yourself in the mirror. For many battling addiction, this isn't just imagination—it's their daily reality. In this eye-opening episode of The Addicted Mind Plus, hosts Duane and Eric Osterlind dive deep into the powerful connection between shame, isolation, and addiction. They explore how these forces work together to keep people stuck in a cycle of pain and substance abuse.But there's hope! The hosts reveal that the simple act of connecting with others can be a game-changer in recovery. They discuss how shame, while once useful for keeping early humans in line with their tribes, can become toxic when it fuses with our sense of self. This toxic shame often leads to isolation, which in turn fuels addiction.Duane and Eric highlight the importance of finding safe, supportive communities where people can experience "corrective experiences." These are moments where individuals can feel shame in a safe environment, allowing them to change their relationship with this powerful emotion over time. The hosts draw parallels to the famous "Rat Park" study, which showed how social connection could significantly reduce substance abuse in rats.The episode emphasizes that recovery isn't just about staying sober—it's about connection. Duane and Eric stress the need for both compassion and accountability in supportive communities. They also introduce their new Addicted Mind community, inviting listeners to join and be part of building something meaningful.Whether you're struggling with addiction yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers valuable insights into the role of shame and the healing power of community in the recovery process.Join Our Community!https://the-addicted-mind-plus.mn.coKey Topics The relationship between shame, isolation, and addiction Understanding healthy vs. toxic shame The importance of connection in recovery Creating safe spaces for "corrective experiences" The "Rat Park" study and its implications for human addiction Building supportive communities with both compassion and accountability Introduction to the Addicted Mind community Timestamps0:00 - Introduction and announcement of new community2:33 - Explaining the connection between shame, isolation, and addiction7:15 - Discussion of the "Rat Park" study and its relevance to human addiction10:45 - How to break the chains of isolation and shame13:40 - The importance of community in healing and recovery15:47 - Practical skills for dealing with shame16:53 - Invitation to join the Addicted Mind communityFollow and Review: We'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.Supporting Resources:If you live in California and are looking for counseling or therapy please check out Novus Mindful Life Counseling and Recovery CenterNovusMindfulLife.comWe want to hear from you. Leave us a message or ask us a question: https://www.speakpipe.com/addictedmindDisclaimer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Imagine feeling so alone that you can't even recognize yourself in the mirror. For many battling addiction, this isn't just imagination—it's their daily reality. In this eye-opening episode of The Addicted Mind Plus, hosts Duane and Eric Osterlind dive deep into the powerful connection between shame, isolation, and addiction. They explore how these forces work together to keep people stuck in a cycle of pain and substance abuse. But there's hope! The hosts reveal that the simple act of connecting with others can be a game-changer in recovery. They discuss how shame, while once useful for keeping early humans in line with their tribes, can become toxic when it fuses with our sense of self. This toxic shame often leads to isolation, which in turn fuels addiction. Duane and Eric highlight the importance of finding safe, supportive communities where people can experience "corrective experiences." These are moments where individuals can feel shame in a safe environment, allowing them to change their relationship with this powerful emotion over time. The hosts draw parallels to the famous "Rat Park" study, which showed how social connection could significantly reduce substance abuse in rats. The episode emphasizes that recovery isn't just about staying sober—it's about connection. Duane and Eric stress the need for both compassion and accountability in supportive communities. They also introduce their new Addicted Mind community, inviting listeners to join and be part of building something meaningful. Whether you're struggling with addiction yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers valuable insights into the role of shame and the healing power of community in the recovery process. Join Our Community! https://the-addicted-mind-plus.mn.co Key Topics The relationship between shame, isolation, and addiction Understanding healthy vs. toxic shame The importance of connection in recovery Creating safe spaces for "corrective experiences" The "Rat Park" study and its implications for human addiction Building supportive communities with both compassion and accountability Introduction to the Addicted Mind community Timestamps 0:00 - Introduction and announcement of new community 2:33 - Explaining the connection between shame, isolation, and addiction 7:15 - Discussion of the "Rat Park" study and its relevance to human addiction 10:45 - How to break the chains of isolation and shame 13:40 - The importance of community in healing and recovery 15:47 - Practical skills for dealing with shame 16:53 - Invitation to join the Addicted Mind community Follow and Review: We'd love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast. Supporting Resources: If you live in California and are looking for counseling or therapy please check out Novus Mindful Life Counseling and Recovery Center NovusMindfulLife.com We want to hear from you. Leave us a message or ask us a question: https://www.speakpipe.com/addictedmind Disclaimer Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode, we dive deep into the concept of friendship and how it relates to the loneliness epidemic. We start by discussing the famous "Rat Park" experiment and what it reveals about loneliness and addiction. Then, we explore a conversation between Trevor Noah and Simon Sinek on the healing power of friendship. Finally, we break down practical ways we can all be better friends.Catch you in the next episode, and remember—leave every relationship better than you found it!Connect with Me:Instagram: @travischappellBook a 15-minute call with me: travischappell.com/chatVisit https://porkbun.com/BuildYourNetwork24 and get your .PRO domain for just $1 for the first year at Porkbun!Our Sponsors:* Check out Notion and use my code travismakesfriends for a great deal: www.notion.so* Check out PrizePicks and use my code TRAVIS for a great deal: www.prizepicks.com* Check out Quince: quince.com/travisAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

“Addicted” - “exhibiting a compulsive, chronic, physiological or psychological need for a habit-forming substance, behavior, or activity.” Like other health conditions, addiction is multifactorial. It is the result of an alignment of root causes. In this newsletter, I'll discuss:* Substance addiction and behavioral addictions* Why addiction is not simply about dopamine and why there are multiple addictive personalities* How & why we differ in our physiologic response to substances* Our culture's shaming and punishment of addiction while fueling addiction* The role of attachment disruption, trauma, emotional dysregulation, and social isolationSubstance AddictionWhen it comes to addiction, you might expect me to talk a lot about dopamine.  Not all substance addictions are the same, however. Opioids act very differently on the body than alcohol, which acts differently than cocaine.  Some substances are more addictive than others, and even more so in certain people.  For most people, marijuana is less addictive, while alcohol, cocaine, and opioids are more addictive. Addictive Substances:* Alcohol* Caffeine* Cannabis* Hallucinogens* Sedatives and Hypnotics/Anxiolytics* Inhalants* Opioids* Stimulants* TobaccoSeemingly, 10-20 % of people who try substances will have problems with addiction. Our genetic makeup and the expression of our genes will impact how we react to substances, just as they will affect how we metabolize specific medications or environmental toxins.  We could, for example, have a weak enzyme that slows our metabolism of alcohol and results in our becoming more intoxicated more quickly.  We may have high neurotransmitter activity that we're trying to calm down with substances, or we may have low neurotransmitter activity and are taking substances or even carrying out certain behaviors that increase our neurotransmitter activity.   Behavioral AddictionWhile we can become severely addicted to substances, we can also become addicted to behaviors or the feelings brought on by the behavior or anticipation of the behavior. Examples of Behavioral Addiction:* Food addiction* Sex addiction* Love and relationship addiction* Codependence is considered a relationship addiction in that relationships are often one-sided, emotionally destructive, or even abusive.* Exercise addiction* Body dysmorphic disorder* Health addiction* Shopping addiction* Gambling addiction* Work addiction* Video game addiction* Internet addiction* Smartphone addiction* Social media addiction* Porn addiction* News addiction* Information addiction* Self-harm addiction* Extremism is also felt to overlap with addictionWe can become addicted to anything that spikes the reward chemicals in our brains.  If we're not sure if we're addicted, we can ask ourselves, “Is the compulsive behavior having negative consequences?”The severity of our addictions falls on a spectrum.  I may not have a gambling addiction where I am putting myself at financial risk; however, I could be addicted to sugar, which I know negatively impacts my health, gives me brain fog and fatigue, and causes me to check out of my relationships, including my relationship with myself. Culture: Shame & Punishment The last thing that we need if we are addicted to a substance or behavior is shame and punishment. Our culture still tends to see addiction as a moral failing or even a sin that can be removed with punishment.  This thinking leads to simplistic consequences such as rejection by family and friends and even imprisonment.  The same happens with other forms of mental illness, but in this case, there is even less understanding, less compassion, more anger, and more disdain.Culture: Fueling AddictionMeanwhile, most of us are becoming more addicted - addicted to our cell phones, social media, divisive stimulating news and information.  We have more information coming at us than we can process.  Our brains are flooded with catecholamines as we stay in highly stimulated states. One of those catecholamines is dopamine, which will drive motivation and have us in pursuit of “more.”  While there may be a type of pleasure in that pursuit, it's not a joyful or even content type of pleasure. When we are in pursuit, we are not present in our lives.   Many of us can barely process our moments, days, and lives in these modern times. For many, what was a life of memorable moments (positive and painful) has become a blur of days quickly passing by. Before we've had time to process what has happened, what we've experienced, or what we've felt, our minds are in pursuit of the next thing we need to know or have.With addictive technology comes the marketing and its messages - “more food, more sex, more youth and beauty, more health, more money, more success, and even more love - the elusive movie kind.  We are forgetting how to be satisfied and tolerate uncomfortable feelings.Attachment & TraumaWe haven't all had the same early attachment experiences. Some of us have experienced childhood trauma. We don't know what safety feels like. Two-thirds of those with opioid addiction have childhood trauma. This doesn't account for the trauma that can occur before verbal memory, which is usually not reported.Childhood trauma impacts our autonomic nervous system, our limbic system, and our hormonal stress response. Before we even experience a stressor, our baseline neurotransmitters may already be too high. Our trauma, in combination with our genetic variants, may result in high neurotransmitters that we may try to calm down with our addiction, or our trauma, in combination with our genetic variants, may have us seeking out stimulation so we can feel more alive and connected.Social IsolationPart of our understanding of addiction comes from the work of American psychologist Dr. Bruce Alexander, who did the “Rat Park” study.  Previous research had already shown that when rats were put in solitary confinement and given a choice between water and heroin or cocaine, the rats repetitively consumed the drug-laced water until they overdosed and died.Alexander realized that the problem may not be the rats but the environment.  Rats are social animals, just as we are.  So, he created “rat parks,” where the rats could roam, play, socialize, and have sex.  Despite being given the same access to the two types of drug-laced water, these rats preferred the plain water.  Even if they did drink the drug-laced water occasionally, they never did obsessively, nor did they overdose.  The social environment was protective against addiction. If we want to help those with addiction, we need to think about connection. If we want to help ourselves with an addiction, we need to think about connection.Emotional RegulationOur ability to regulate our emotions (increase calm and decrease fear and anger) comes through interactions with other humans - safe humans. Ideally, we learn to regulate our emotions during our first three years. When we were distressed as infants and toddlers, we communicated that distress through our cries and facial expressions, our caregivers responded, and our physiology returned to a sense of calm and safety. This repeated process - not necessarily perfect, but “good enough” - resulted in our internalizing that early relationship and, with that, an ability to recognize our feelings, trust others, feel worthy, respond to uncomfortable feelings with coping skills, and return to our baseline emotional state.  Without this skill we acquire through attachment, we can become overwhelmed by our feelings or detached from our feelings. Our experiences, genetics, and temperament will impact which direction we go.There is not one “addictive personality” but many addictive personalities. Some of us will be highly sensitive, and others will have a low level of sensitivity. Some of us will become overwhelmed by stress or stimulation and use addictions as a way to try to calm our emotional and high neurotransmitter states.  Others will seek sensory stimulation or risk-taking to bump those neurotransmitters and increase the feeling state. Of course, our biochemical differences impact this as well:* For those of us who are undermethylated, we may find that we are sensory seeking, have high activity at the NMDA receptor, and find ourselves craving whatever has come to have meaning or has left a mark on our neurophysiology.  * For those of us who are overmethylated, we may have the desire to calm things down, slow our racing thoughts, and lower our high neurotransmitter activity.* For those of us with high pyrroles (and or CAPs profile), we may feel socially anxious or overstimulated and desire to feel calm and comfortable, but at other times, we may feel brave and invincible.“Being bold and adventurous and being sad and cautious seem like opposite personality types. However, these two paths to addiction are actually not mutually exclusive. The third way involves having both kinds of traits, where people alternatively fear and desire novelty and behavior swings from being impulsive and rash to being compulsive, fear driven, and stuck in rigid patterns. ……My own story spirals around this paradoxical situation: I was driven enough to excel academically and fundamentally scared of change and of other people—yet I was also reckless enough to sell cocaine and shoot heroin.” - Maia Szalavitz We need to think more broadly about addiction, just as we would any other health condition.  We need to address the underlying physiological root causes, meet our human need for connection, and learn ways to experience, tolerate, and cope with our very human and necessary feeling states.  In this week's paid newsletter, I look forward to discussing cases to illustrate how various neurotransmitters can be at play with different substance addictions and how targeted nutrients can be used in the treatment of addictions - both substance and behavioral. Until next time,CourtneyIf you'd like to dive deeper into the root causes of brain symptoms, consider becoming a paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit courtneysnydermd.substack.com/subscribe

Christina Dent, founder of End It For Good, Author - Curious, shares her journey of understanding addiction and advocating for a new approach to drug policy. She recounts her experience as a foster parent and meeting a mother struggling with addiction, which challenged her preconceived notions. This led her to question the effectiveness of the criminal justice system in addressing drug use and to explore alternative solutions. She discusses the Rat Park experiment and the importance of addressing the underlying reasons for substance use. Christina emphasizes the need for personalized pathways to recovery and a shift away from a one-size-fits-all approach. The illegal drug economy, fueled by drug prohibition, incentivizes crime and violence by providing a financial incentive. Gangs, cartels, and terrorist organizations are primarily funded through the proceeds of the drug trade. Prohibition also leads to the production of unregulated and dangerous drugs, such as fentanyl, which has contributed to the overdose crisis. The current approach to drug policy is reactive and fear-based, and it is important to shift towards a health-centered approach that addresses the root causes of addiction. Regular people can lead the charge for change and create a movement towards policy reform. Connect with me for Coaching, Consulting or to come and speak at George@tattooedpastor.com Buy my book The Uncovery https://www.briteaton.com/The-Uncovery-Book My personal website https://www.georgeawood.com/ Sober Truth Project https://sobertruthproject.org/ https://www.facebook.com/tattooedpastorgw/ https://linktr.ee/tattooedpastor

This week's guest is Johann Hari, whose books and TED Talks on depression, anxiety, and addiction have reached millions of people. His 2015 talk Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong had a huge impact on Matt, changing how he thought about his own recovery. Matt then devoured Johann's first book Chasing The Scream which looked at the war on drugs, through the story of Billie Holiday. While writing this book, Johann travelled the world to find out how different countries and cultures are dealing with addiction. Because, when it comes to treatment, prevention and enforcement, some countries have got it nailed... and some really haven't. In fact, many countries (including the UK) have got a lot to learn when it comes to our attitudes towards drugs and addiction. This conversation dives into Billie Holiday's story and the legacy of Harry J Anslinger's war on drugs; the importance of connection and compassion in addiction recovery; and what we can learn from innovations in countries like Portugal and Switzerland, and, at the community level, in Vancouver. (01:10) Johann's funeral song (a surprising choice, but perhaps not for Busted fans) (02:44) The impact of Johann's Ted Talk on Matt (04:45) Johann's motivation for researching addiction (08:43) The Rat Park experiment and the importance of connection (13:26) The U.S. vs. Billie Holiday and what this story teaches us about the war on drugs (27:36) Addiction treatment in the prison system (32:32) Shame and stigma in addiction (and the importance of looking at multiple factors) (43:40) The impact of junk values in contemporary society (51:00) Looking for, and fixating on, negative feedback (53:36) The different approach to addiction in Portugal  (59:07) Andrew Sullivan, gay marriage, and important cultural change (01:01:59) Decriminalisation vs. legalisation and the Swiss approach to addiction (01:06:22) The power of ordinary people in cultural change (01:07:54) What we can learn from Vancouver (Bud Osborn and Philip Owen) (01:14:24) Concluding thoughts from Johann and Matt Related links: Johann's books The film adaptation of Chasing The Scream: The United States vs, Billie Holiday Billie Holiday's Strange Fruit Bruce K Alexander's Rat Park experiment Joe Arpaio's Tent City Dr Vincent J Felitti Dr Gabor Maté  Professor Tim Kasser's The High Price of Materialism and his experiment with Nathan Duncan Portugal's Dr João Goulão Virtually Normal by Andrew Sullivan Former President of Switzerland Ruth Dreifuss The Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users: VANDU Former Vancouver Mayor Philip Owen NHS: Getting Help for Drug Addiction

Dr Bruce Alexander is an internationally recognised author and psychologist perhaps most well known for his “rat-park” experiment and dislocation theory of addiction. Few people on the planet have contributed more to our understanding of the social and contextual factors driving addiction, so it was a real privilege to have this conversation. In this episode you'll learn: — Why psychology is only one piece of the addiction puzzle and the importance of taking a wider view — The extent to which belonging to a culture can be thought of as a basic human need; as essential to our wellbeing as food and water, and what happens in its absence — The historical factors driving the addiction crisis — Bruce's famous rat park experiment and how this is slowly leading to a paradigm shift in how we see addictions And more. You can learn more about Bruce's work by going to: www.brucekalexander.com --- Dr Bruce K. Alexander is a renowned Canadian psychologist and professor emeritus at Simon Fraser University in Burnaby, British Columbia. He is best known for his groundbreaking work in the field of addiction and his influential theory known as the "Rat Park" experiment. Bruce Kenneth Alexander was born on December 13, 1939, in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. He completed his undergraduate studies at the University of British Columbia, where he obtained a Bachelor of Arts degree in psychology. He then pursued graduate studies at the University of Oregon, earning his Ph.D. in experimental psychology. Throughout his career, Alexander focused on studying addiction and its underlying causes, challenging prevailing theories that viewed addiction as solely a result of chemical dependency. He sought to explore the social and environmental factors that contribute to addictive behavior. Alexander's work highlighted the importance of social connections, environmental factors, and personal fulfillment in preventing and treating addiction. He argued that creating supportive communities and addressing the root causes of addiction, such as social isolation and psychological distress, are crucial for effective prevention and treatment strategies. Beyond his research, Alexander has been a vocal advocate for drug policy reform and has been critical of the war on drugs. He has called for a shift toward harm reduction strategies and the implementation of evidence-based approaches to address substance abuse. Bruce K. Alexander has published numerous articles and book chapters on addiction, psychology, and drug policy. His work continues to inspire researchers, clinicians, and policymakers in the field of addiction studies. --- 4 Books Dr Alexander Recommends for Every Therapist Should Read: — Scenes and studies of savage life - Sproat, Gilbert Malcolm, 1832-1913 - https://bit.ly/SSS-UBC2023 — Addiction and Devotion in Early Modern England — Rebecca Lemon - https://amzn.to/3XIBCW7 — Crack in America: Demon Drugs and Social Justice — Craig Reinarman and Harry G. Levine - https://amzn.to/433VtQE — Coming Clean: Overcoming Addiction without Treatment — Robert Granfield and William Cloud - https://amzn.to/3ppAqKN

To be addicted to something, you've got to… er, actually, what does it mean to be “addicted” to something? We all agree you can be addicted to heroin, but can you also be addicted to videogames, or sex, or listening to podcasts? And actually, it turns out we don't all agree you can be addicted to heroin - or, at least, people have very different models of what that means. In what is effectively an hour-long clarification of a throwaway comment in a previous episode, Tom and Stuart talk through the various aspects of addiction, and try to pin down the scientific definition of what turns out to be a strangely elusive concept.The Studies Show is brought to you by Works in Progress magazine, whose recent issue covers its usual mix of science, technology, and policy ideas to help with human flourishing. Read deeply-researched articles about prediction markets, gentrification, concrete, and drink-driving policy at worksinprogress.co. Show notes* Addiction: A Very Short Introduction, by Keith Humphries* And his Atlantic article on how de-stigmatising drugs could be a mistake* Unlocked: The Real Science of Screen Time (and How to Spend it Better) by Pete Etchells* Scotland's unbelievably bad drug problem in one graph* Theodore Dalrymple on Samuel Taylor Coleridge* And another historical case: The Rugeley Poisoner* US physician referring to addiction as a “disease” in 1874* And a German physician discusses “morbid craving” for morphine in 1875* Made-up Victorian theories on the cause of addiction* Useful Vaughan Bell article on “the unsexy truth” about dopamine* Evidence that Parkinson's patients still experience pleasure despite low dopamine levels* Evidence that a majority of (UK) smokers want to quit* The CAGE screening questionnaire for alcohol disorders* On the 1980 letter cited in and discussed in Dopesick* Marc Lewis's Memoirs of an Addicted Brain* A discussion and critique of the “Rat Park” experiments* Paper on “Addictive Symptoms of Mukbang Watching” (this is real!)* The jokey origins of “Internet Use Disorder”CreditsThe Studies Show is produced by Julian Mayers at Yada Yada Productions. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thestudiesshowpod.com/subscribe

I start by describing how podcast guest Carl Erik Fisher, author of bestseller The Urge, reviewed my upcoming book Sustainability Simplified as a subject matter expert on addiction. Carl mentioned how my book suffered from what Bruce describes as the demon drug myth. He pointed to Bruce's work as seminal, so I started reading it.I'd heard of Rat Park and later remembered Johan Hari mentioning Bruce in his TED talk where he said "the opposite of addiction is community". I couldn't wait to talk to Bruce. Carl introduced us. We spoke. Bruce clarified the demon drug myth. I described how addiction and doof figure in my sustainability leadership work.In our conversation, Bruce described how working with self-described junkies in the early 1950s led him to reinterpret the common wisdom "proved" by experiments that some chemicals addicted people, end of story. He then described how he created Rat Park, which showed a lot more nuance and alternative explanations. You can read about Rat Park on Bruce's page or this comic book version, but his description in our conversation is engaging and thorough.Then he shares how people continue to stick with the old view of addiction and drugs. It's easy. It takes parents and others off the hook.He describes new views of addiction. You won't see addiction the same after. If you want to stop polluting and depleting yourself and help people you know and communities you are a member of, this conversation will change how you view it forever. You'll approach it with more understanding, empathy, and compassion.Bruce's home page, aka Bruce K. Alexander's Globalization of Addiction Website Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If we wanted to design a culture from the ground up to maximize both the potential and severity of addiction, we would build it exactly like the United States today.  Once upon a time, humans received contentment and fulfilment from their work, and they often went home feeling connected to their communities and identified with the service or goods they offered for sale. But for the last hundred years we've steadily changed that. Today, 1 in 8 of us in the United States has worked at McDonalds, a job that might pay the bills, but certainly isn't showing anyone how much they are truly capable of doing or connecting them to a sense of identity related to their work. We just do it to get a paycheck. In this episode I will cover the various ways our medical, educational, employment, legal and political systems are all built to maximize addiction potential and severity, and to hide their tracks by blaming drugs and drug users for problems caused by the environment in which we life. Cocaine and heroin costs around $1 per gram to produce from coca leaves and opium poppies, respectively. Yet these substances will cost a consumer upwards of 50x that much on the streets.Find out more about behavioralist B.F. Skinner here. Read about his use of Operant Conditioning here.In Bruce Alexander's experiments, rats that were put in a toyless, friendless cages used 19 times more morphine than those placed in comfortable, familiar homes with other rats. For more about maximizing button-pressing by rewarding the button-presser randomly, in unexpected and unpredictable patters, check out this article.Support the show

A show where Rat Park and Felicity called in!  The post Rat Park & Felicity appeared first on idobi.

In this episode, Joe interviews Dr. Peter Grinspoon: primary care physician and cannabis specialist at Massachusetts General Hospital, TedX speaker, certified physician life coach, and author of the new book, Seeing Through the Smoke: A Cannabis Expert Untangles the Truth about Marijuana. He tells his story of growing up in a house where academics like John Mack and Carl Sagan regularly smoked cannabis, and being inspired by the groundbreaking books of his father, Lester Grinspoon. An outspoken advocate for drug policy reform and embracing different, non-AA paths to recovery, he talks about how he got there: his opiate addiction, fall from medicine, subsequent return, and learning just how deep the stigma against drugs goes, and how much the medical establishment is another arm of the Drug War. Seeing Through the Smoke aims to tell the truth about cannabis, especially on benefits and real and debunked harms. How can we get more physicians and lawmakers on our side if all they know is propaganda? He discusses: -The challenge in speaking honestly with physicians about drug use -Why physicians are in support of researching psychedelics but not cannabis -Stigmatized language and Drug War vibes in medical software -The truth about cannabis, schizophrenia, and the risk of drug-induced psychosis -Portugal and the ‘Rat Park' model -The importance of listening to what patients are saying – especially when we don't have enough good data and more! Click here to head to the show notes page.

As we wrap up 2023, join me in reflecting on the profound impact of connections in our lives. Inspired by a powerful analogy about rats in cages, we explore the root of addiction—our environment. Dive into the world of "Rat Park" and discover the transformative power of meaningful relationships. From the challenges of parenting in a tech-savvy age to the societal shift towards isolation, we discuss the importance of fostering connections in our lives. Let's build our own Rat Park and combat addiction with genuine, fulfilling relationships. https://www.instagram.com/nicole_bachle/

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKL0Pw3Q6mA Anna Lembke explores dopamine detoxing, addiction, and the influence of narratives in managing trauma. SPONSORS: - This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/TOE and get on your way to being your best self. TIMESTAMPS: - 00:00:00 Introduction - 00:02:40 Anna Lembke's experience with addiction - 00:10:46 Dopamine-seeking behavior vs coping mechanism - 00:12:35 The paradox of pain relief - 00:24:21 The self-perpetuating cycle of addiction - 00:24:00 Neuroadaptation - 00:29:23 The power of abstinence - 00:34:04 Life as an experiment - 00:37:15 Dopamine reward and misconceptions of the "present moment" - 00:41:06 Freud, Jung, and mindfulness - 00:45:35 East vs West in mental health - 00:51:15 Importance of self-talk and bedside manner - 00:56:00 Attachment styles in trauma (and intergenerational trauma) - 01:01:00 Power of stories and a Higher Power in addiction recovery - 01:07:42 Radical honesty / truth-telling - 01:12:02 The relevance of free will - 01:23:26 Love as a catalyst for tough decisions - 01:31:02 - A digital Sabbath (and Curt's coffee abnegation) - 01:42:12 Methadone for severe opioid use disorder - 01:51:00 The language of addiction, stigmatization, and identity - 01:57:32 Rat Park experiments (society's role in addiction) - 02:08:16 Writing as a therapeutic tool - 02:14:12 The necessity of a Higher Power THANK YOU: To Mike Duffy, of https://expandingideas.org and https://dailymystic.org for your insight, help, and recommendations on this channel. - Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal (early access to ad-free audio episodes!) - Crypto: https://tinyurl.com/cryptoTOE - PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE - Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt - Discord Invite: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs - iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast... - Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP - Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b9... - Subreddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeveryt... - TOE Merch: https://tinyurl.com/TOEmerch LINKS MENTIONED: - Dopamine Nation (Anna Lembke): https://amzn.to/47euRic - Podcast w/ Karl Friston on TOE: https://youtu.be/SWtFU1Lit3M - Podcast w/ Lilian Dindo: https://youtu.be/L_hI7JNsbt0 - Discord (new community channel Dopamine Detox): https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs - Pure White and Deadly (John Yudkin): https://amzn.to/3snMZHW - Drug Dealer MD (Anna Lembke): https://amzn.to/40G4WOJ

On today's episode, we have harm-reduction therapist and co-founder of Alchemy Community Therapy Center, Irina Alexander (She/Her), join us for a conversation about the need to deconstruct the messaging we have been sold about drugs and step into a research-backed understanding. Together we talk about how larger systems impact our drug use, the importance of community connection, and coming out of the psychedelic closet. If you enjoyed today's podcast, then please subscribe, leave a review, or share this podcast with a friend! To learn more, head over to the website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.modernanarchypodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ And if you want to connect deeper with the Modern Anarchy Family, then join the movement by becoming a part of the conscious objectors ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Your support is what powers this work and the larger societal change we are creating! Let's continue to challenge our assumptions and grow together. Join the community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/user?u=54121384⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Intro and Outro Song: Wild Wild Woman by Your Smith Modern Anarchy Community: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : www.modernanarchypodcast.com ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : https://www.instagram.com/modernanarchypodcast ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Patreon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ : https://www.patreon.com/user?u=54121384 Irina's Community: Irina is a co-founder and Clinical Director of Alchemy Community Therapy Center (alchemytherapy.org), a sliding scale psychedelic therapy clinic in Oakland, as well as a street-based harm reduction therapist with the Harm Reduction Therapy Center in San Francisco. Irina has a long history in direct service work, and believes in the healing capacity of showing up for each other, individually and as a community. She feels passionate about making psychedelic healing services more equitable and accessible to underserved communities. Irina has volunteered for several years as a supervisor with the Zendo Project, and is currently also working as an Adherence Rater for MDMA Clinical Trials.  Ketamine Therapy Provider Training : https://www.alchemytherapy.org/licensedtraining Alchemy Community Therapy Center: https://www.alchemytherapy.org/ Resources to Learn More: Sana Healing Collective : https://sanahealingcollective.org/ Rat Park : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY9DcIMGxMs&t=14s Drug Decriminalization in Portugal : https://fherehab.com/news/portugal-lowest-drug-rate#:~:text=Portugal%3A%20The%20Country%20with%20the%20Lowest%20Drug%20Overdose%20Rates Dr. Carl Hart : https://bookshop.org/a/88413/9781101981665 Stages of Change : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVyhhMzWkiU Motivational Interviewing : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iBPeZjjuYU

Transcript: https://www.wearenotsaved.com/p/ai-risk-might-be-more-subtle-than  Depressed people are more prone to addiction. If social media engagement looks a lot like addiction, does that mean algorithms for increasing engagement also increase depression?

Interview with Adam Novak, author of the novel RAT PARK.You can support the podcast today by buying me a coffee, or you can subscribe to the podcast via Apple iTunes for ad-free episodes.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/reading-and-writing-podcast/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Rat Park and Vietnam tell us two crucial things about addiction and recovery. They first show that recovery is a natural process when the organism returns to a normally rewarding and supportive environment. Even more importantly — certainly not the rats, but the human beings in Vietnam were never conditioned to think of themselves as “addicts.” Thus their identities were never trapped, which is the hardest thing to overcome. ***** SUBSCRIBE to Our Channel ***** To get more of our content and help us grow: https://www.youtube.com/c/LifeProcessProgram?sub_confirmation=1 ***** FOLLOW us on Social ***** - Facebook: https://facebook.com/lifeprocessprogram - Twitter : https://twitter.com/lifeprocessprgm - Instagram: https://instagram.com/lifeprocessprogram - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/life-process-program ***** CONTACT US ****** - Website: https://lifeprocessprogram.com - Text us: +1 (802) - 391 - 4360 --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lifeprocessprogram/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/lifeprocessprogram/support

A show where Stephanie Poetri and Kid Prexy called in (his first interview ever) plus Patrick from NOT MY WEEKEND and Jared Gaines came by to co-host (Jared has a project he's dropping next week I snuck into the episode)  The post Stephanie Poetri, Kid Prexy, Co-hosts Not My Weekend & Rat Park appeared first on idobi Network.

If you have been in recovery for any amount of time, you likely have heard some version of the study where they placed a rat in a small enclosure where he had two bottles.  One had water, the other was water laced with drugs such as morphine and cocaine and the rat would become hopelessly addicted.However, simultaneously the same scientist performed another experiment that had a shockingly different result, yet it is rarely talked about in the world of addiction recovery.What did he find and why should we be focusing on this less talked about experiment?  That is exactly what we are going to talk about in this episode.If you have asked yourself these questions, this episode is for you:Is addiction a disease?Is alcoholism a disease?Is addiction environmental?Why can't I stop drinking?

Cinematographer and documentarian Jesse Freeston joined me to talk about how he got nukepilled, his wonderful videos for Decouple Studios, the rat park, and how nuclear fits into his view of global flourishing. Check out Jesse's videos:Inside the World's BIGGEST Nuclear Plant (the one that got Ontario off coal)How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Nuclear Waste Get full access to Nuclear Barbarians at nuclearbarbarians.substack.com/subscribe

Strength of the Oak Andrew Anderson We've all had rough times in our past. Times when it seemed like the entire world was collapsing around us. Times when, no matter how hard we tried, somehow, someway, we always came out on the losing end. Everyone has had those life experiences. If you've listened to this program any length of time, you've heard my back story… Our guest today faced the same set of circumstances. He lost it all, family, work, savings – all of it. But, at that moment in time, he made a decision. That one quality decision started him on the path he is on now – helping others to learn to make that type of quality decision. Andrew Anderson is now an author, speaker, trainer and community and spiritual leader. He has helped hundreds of is clients to break through their limiting beliefs and transform their lives and their businesses. He lives his life with a daily mandate to influence as many as possible to live a higher level of life and spiritual strength. He is the author of a fabulous book titled, “Strength of the Oak, Strength of the Willow – How to Find Courage & Compassion in a Turbulent World.” Help me welcome to the program, Andrew Anderson!  Andrew, it is a blessing to finally have you on the program, brother! I appreciate your time today! First question I always ask is this: Other than that brief in information I just shared, can tell us in your own words, “Who is Andrew Anderson?” What was life like for you when you hit rock bottom? How did you find your way to implement the steps you share in your book, “Strength of the Oak, Strength of the Willow?” Why did you write this book and why at this point in your life? In your book, “Strength of the Oak, Strength of the Willow,” you talk about coming up with your “Life Mission Statement.” Can you explain the importance of this for us? You discuss there are six key areas of life that lead us to fulfillment. Can you briefly share with us those six areas and the importance they hold? What is the “Rat Park” exercise which you discuss in your book? I know there is someone listening to us today that feels like they have already heard all the “rah-rah” self-help books and classes. How is your book different? What do you say to someone who may feel like they are just stuck where they are at? They feel like they've tried to improve before and failed.. so what's the use? Do you do personal mentoring outside of the book? Classes, coaching programs, etc.? As you were developing this, what was one of the major obstacles you faced in creating this program? Why does this program work so well?  What makes it different from other programs out there? How can someone obtain a copy of your book, “Strength of the Oak, Strength of the Willow?” Is it on Amazon? Andrew, this has been so interesting. If someone wanted to get in touch with you, to ask a question or receive more...

Welcome to episode two hundred of Future Fossils! On this episode, I'm joined by Ehren Cruz (LinkedIn, Instagram, Website) and Daphne Krantz (LinkedIn, Instagram, Website) to discuss transcendence, trauma, and transformation. We talk about the festival world, our individual journeys, the rise of psychedelics in therapeutic applications, the potential of these substances, and their cultural roots. We also discuss addiction, trauma, and the consequences of collective consciousness, freedom, and how to provide access to these therapies in a way that respects Indigenous knowledge.✨ Chapters:(0:00:01) - Exploring Transcendence, Trauma, and Transformation(0:08:27) - Psychedelic Use With Intention(0:17:11) - Psychedelics and Substance Abuse(0:26:13) - Exploring Relationships to Psychoactive Substances(0:41:59) - Embodiment in Psychedelic Therapy(0:54:30) - Addiction, Trauma, and The Transhuman Conditions(1:03:20) - Healing Through Connection and Community(1:09:04) - The Freedom of Exploration(1:12:15) - Authentic Expression & Vulnerability(1:15:26) - Psychedelics for Exploration(1:27:55) - The Consequences of Collective Consciousness Freedom(1:43:02) - Supporting Independent Work✨ Support Future Fossils:Subscribe anywhere you go for podcastsSubscribe to the podcast PLUS essays, music, and news on Substack or Patreon.Buy my original paintings or commission new work.Buy my music on Bandcamp! (This episode features “Ephemeropolis” from the EP of the same name & “Olympus Mons” from the Martian Arts EP.)Or if you're into lo-fi audio, follow me and my listening recommendations on Spotify.This conversation continues with lively and respectful interaction every single day in the members-only Future Fossils Facebook Group and Discord server. Join us!✨ Tip Jars:@futurefossils on Venmo$manfredmacx on CashAppmichaelgarfield on PayPal✨ Affiliate Links:• These show notes were supplemented with Podium.Page, a very cool new AI service I'm happy to endorse. Sign up at https://hello.podium.page/?via=michael and get three free hours and 50% off your first month.• I transcribe this show with help from Podscribe.ai — which I highly recommend to other podcasters. (If you'd like to help edit transcripts for the Future Fossils book project, please email or DM me: Email | Twitter | Instagram)• BioTech Life Sciences makes anti-aging and performance enhancement formulas that work directly at the level of cellular nutrition, both for ingestion and direct topical application. I'm a firm believer in keeping NAD+ levels up and their skin solution helped me erase a year of pandemic burnout from my face.• Help regulate stress, get better sleep, recover from exercise, and/or stay alert and focused without stimulants, with the Apollo Neuro wearable. I have one and while I don't wear it all the time, when I do it's sober healthy drugs.• Musicians: let me recommend you get yourself a Jamstik Studio, the coolest MIDI guitar I've ever played. I LOVE mine. You can hear it playing all the synths on my song about Jurassic Park.✨ Mentioned & Related Episodes:7 - Shane Mauss (Psychedelic Comedy)10 - Anthony Thogmartin & David Krantz (Future Music)27 - Rak Razam & Niles Heckman (5-MeO DMT & Consciousness)58 - Shane Mauss (Psychonautic Adventures at the Edge of Genius & Madness)59 - Charles Shaw (Trauma, Addiction, and Healing)62 - David Krantz (Cannabis Nutrigenomics)68 - Charles Shaw (Soul in the Heart of Darkness)96 - Malena Grosz on Community-Led Party Culture vs. Corporate "Nightlife"100 - The Teafaerie on DMT, Transhumanism, and What To Do with All of God's Attention103 - Tricia Eastman on Facilitating Psychedelic Journeys to Recover from An Age of Epidemic Trauma112 - Mitsuaki Chi on Serving the Mushroom117 - Eric Wargo on Time Loops: Precognition, Retrocausation, and the Unconscious131 - Jessica Nielson & Link Swanson on Psychedelic Science & Too Much Novelty136 - Alyssa Gursky on Psychedelic Art Therapy & The Future of Communication156 - Stuart Davis on Zen, Aliens, and Psychedelics168 - Mikey Lion & Malena Grosz on Festival Time, Life-Changing Trips, and Community in COVID171 - Eric Wargo on Precognitive Dreamwork and The Philosophy of Time Travel172 - Tyson Yunkaporta on Indigenous Systems Thinking, Fractal Governance, Ontopunk, and Queering W.E.I.R.D. Modernity176 - Exploring Ecodelia with Richard Doyle, Sophie Strand, and Sam Gandy at the Psilocybin Summit✨ Keywords:Transcendence, Trauma, Transformation, Festival World, Psychedelics, Therapeutic Applications, Cultural Roots, Addiction, Collective Consciousness, Freedom, Access, Indigenous Knowledge, Intentionality, Context, Consumer Culture, Spiritual Ego, Health Coaching, Mental Health Counseling, Gender Identity, Substance Abuse, Private Practice, Ancient Cultural Roots, Modern Therapeutic Applications, Transformational Festival Culture, Memory, Embodiment, Rat Park Experiment, Brain Inference, Harlan Ellison, Opioid Crisis, Connection, Community, Oppression, Systems of Power, Self-Harm, Interconnectedness, Consumerism, Mindset, Serotonin, Oxytocin, Courageous Expression, Authentic Self, Right Wing Psychedelia, Commodification, Marginalized Groups, Nurturing Attachment, Reality, Independent Work, Apple Podcasts, Patreon✨ UNEDITED machine-generated transcript:Michael (1s):Greetings, future fossils. This is Michael Garfield welcoming you to episode 200 of the podcast that explores our place in time. My God, we made it here. What a view from this summit. It's incredible. And for this episode, I have two very special guests, two very old friends. I mean they're, they're not very old, they're just friends I've had for a very long time. Aaron Cruz and Daphne Krantz. Aaron is a psychedelic experience facilitator. Daphne is an addiction counselor, but I met them both in the festival world when Aaron and I were working on the Visionary Art Web Magazine Sole Purpose back in like a decade ago.Michael (55s):And Daphne was producing electronic music under the Alias FU Texture. Dabney was a self-identified man at the time. David Krantz appeared on the show, episode 63 talking about cannabis and Nutrigenomics. So I mean, all of us have been through just extraordinary transformations. Aaron Cruz was the guy whose ceremonially blessed my Google Glass before I performed with it in a world first self streaming performance Gratify Festival in 2013.Michael (1m 35s):So yeah, there's a lot of archival material to unpack here, but we don't spend a lot of time ruminating on history. Instead, we discuss the present moment of the landscape of our society and people's trauma and drive for transcendence and the way that this collides with consumer culture and transformational festival scene where we all met one another. And it's an extraordinary episode and I know a lot of people out there are having a really hard time right now.Michael (2m 23s):And I am with you. I have huge news to share soon. I want you to know that you are not alone in your efforts to work things out. And if you need support, there is support for you. I really hope that you get something out of this conversation. I myself found just simply re-listening to the recording to be truly healing. And I'm really grateful that I get to share it with you. But before I do that, I want to pay tribute to everyone who is supporting this show on Patreon and on CK everyone who is subscribing to my music on Band camp, the latest Patreon supporters include Darius Strel and Samantha Lotz.Michael (3m 17s):Thank you both so much. Thank you also to the, the hundreds of other people who are helping me pay my mortgage and feed my kids with this subscription service one form or another. I have plenty of awesome new things for you, including speaking of psychedelics, a live taping of the two sets I just played opening for comedian Shane Moss here in Santa Fe. John Cocteau Cinema sold out shows. Excellent evening. I just posted the little teaser clip of the song Transparent, which was the song from that 2013 Google Blast performance.Michael (4m 2s):Actually that was, its its inaugural debut and I've refined it over the last decade and I submitted it to NPRs Tiny Desk concert. And you can find that up on my YouTube. If you want to taste of the electro-acoustic inventions that I will be treating subscribers to here in short order patreon.com/michael garfield, michael garfield.ck.com, which is where this podcast is currently hosted RSS feed. And thanks to everybody who's been reading and reviewing the show on Apple Podcast and Spotify and wherever you're wonderful, you've got this, whatever you're going through, you can do it.Michael (4m 46s):I believe in you and do not hesitate to reach out to me or to my fabulous guests or to other members of our community if you need the support. Thank you. Enjoy this episode. Be well and much more coming soon. I have two extraordinary conversations in the Can one with Kevin wo, my dear friend here in Santa Fe and Kmo, the notorious, legendary confederate podcaster who just published a trial log, the first part of the trial log between the three of us on his own show.Michael (5m 27s):Highly recommend you go check that out. And then also an episode with Caveat Magister, the resident philosopher of Burning Man who published an extraordinary book last year, turned your Life into Art, which resulted in a very long, vulnerable, profound and hilarious conversation between the two of us about our own adventures and misadventures and the relationship between Psycho Magic and Burning Man and Meow Wolf and Disney and Jurassic Park. Oh, and speaking of which, another piece of bait to throw on the hook for you subscribers.Michael (6m 12s):I am about to start a Jurassic Park book club this spring. I will be leading the group in the Discord server and in the Facebook group and on live calls chapter by chapter through the book that changed the world. I've an intense and intimate relationship with this book. I was there at the world premier in 1993. I grew up doing Dinosaur Diggs with the book's Primary Paleontological consultant, Robert Bocker. I have a dress for tattoo, et cetera. I've sold the painting to Ian, not to Ian Malcolm, the Jeff Goldblum, but I did name my son after that mathematician.Michael (6m 59s):Anyway, yes, much, much, much to discuss, especially because you know, one of the craziest things about this year is that the proverbial velociraptors have escaped the island, you know, and open ai. What, what's in a name? You know, everything is just transforming so fast now. And so I am the dispossessed Cassandra that will lead you through some kibbitz in Doug rush cuffs language. Please join us, everybody subscribing Tock or anybody on Patreon at five bucks or more will be privy to those live calls and I really hope to see you in there.Michael (7m 47s):And with all of that shilling behind me now, please give it up for the marvelous Aaron Cruz and Daphne Krantz. Two people with whom I can confidently entrust your minds. Enjoy. Okay, let's just dive in. Sure. Aaron Daphne. Hi, future fossils. You're here.Michael (8m 26s):Awesome. This took us like what, nine months to schedule this.Daphne (8m 30s):A slow burn, but we, here we go. It's great to hear me here,Ehren (8m 33s):Brother. It is, yeah. And once again, anything that gets rescheduled always ends up turning out better. Like I, I was just thinking, I'm really glad we actually didn't do this interview nine months ago, just in terms of life experience between now and then. I don't know what that's gonna translate to in a conversation, but personally I feel a lot more prepared to talk to you rightDaphne (8m 51s):Now. A hundred percent agree.Michael (8m 53s):Cool. Okay, so let's just dive in then. Both of you are doing really interesting work in the explosive emerging sector of, in one way or another, dealing with people's trauma, dealing with people's various like life crisis issues. And having met both of you through the festival world, which was a scene of pretty rampant abuse and escapism. And I met you both as what my friend in town here, Mitch Minno would call like psychedelic conservatives, where I felt like there were a bunch of like elder millennials who were kind of trying to help that had been in the scene for a little long and they were really working to steer people into a more grounded and integrated approach to extasis in the festival world.Michael (9m 52s):And all of us have seen our fair share of, and perhaps also lived through our fair share of right and wrong relationship to the tools and technologies of transcendence. So that's kinda where I wanna take this. And I think maybe the way to start is just by having both of you introduce yourselves and talk a little bit about your path and the various roles that you've kept over the years in this, in adjacent spheres and what led you into the work that you're doing now. And then, yeah, from there we can take it wherever the conversation chooses to lead us. Daphne, we've had you on the show before, so why don't we have Aaron go first? Let's do that.Michael (10m 32s):Okay,Daphne (10m 32s):Awesome. Thank you Mike. Yo, we appreciate you're really eloquent way of creating an environment to kind of settle into here. So Aaron Cruz, I've been really deeply immersed in psychedelics for 15 years. My first foray into the world, or in curiosity, was actually going to school in Ohio State University for fellowship in anthropology. And coming it from the perspective of looking at 16th, 15th century around the time of the, the conquest in indigenous cultures utilizing plant medicine ceremony ritual as a community harmonizer agent, as a tool for collective wisdom, also for ceremonial divine communion, but very much from an ivory tower perspective.Daphne (11m 15s):I was not very much engaged with psychedelics at that particular lens outside of a foray into a couple of opportunities at all. Good music festival or different things like that. But I beg the question about is using these plant medicines with intentionality, will it create a more symbiotic way of life? A way of understanding the interdependence between the natural landscape, humanity, culture, community building and personal evolution. So it wasn't until major psychedelic experience in 2008 where I had probably inadvisable amount of L s D in the middle of a, an event and went into a full system to dissolve to the, the good degree. I actually didn't even know my name for several hours, but, but what I did feel that came to recognize was just this deep sense of connection to the soul of, of others.Daphne (12m 4s):A sense that e, each one of us sped our best efforts with cultural conditioning, social conditioning, how we're races, peers, we had a desire to appreciated, embraced. There's this deep sense of tribal kinship that I think I felt from everybody wanted to explore whether they were wearing a grateful dead shirt, a ballerina tutu or flat cap or whatever it was. And we wear these different types of masks of her own safety and security and and sense of self. But beneath that facade, I just felt this deep, rich desire to be a sense of belonging and connection and desire to be a p a child of the universe for lack of a better term. So that kind of really set me off from that tone as you shared, is that this rapidly accelerated from place of recreation to a deep of place of deep spiritual potency.Daphne (12m 46s):And, and from that place on the alchemical frontier, as I call that kind of festival type of realm where many, whether they're using compounds for escapism or they're trying to embody or embrace a particular lifestyle that they can then translate and seed into their own default realities or wherever that is almost train Jedi training grounds or whatever you could consider that to be. However, your orientation around it, that is, I just felt a deep devotion to trying to support those particular realms. First through workshop ceremony and cultivation of experiences that had some integrity and bones to using these things mindfully, actually to producing events. I was producing a co-producing original back in the day where I believe I met you, Mike, with root wire with the popio about 2010 through 2013 or nine through 12, maybe one of those epox learned a lot.Daphne (13m 35s):It was a lot of bootstrapping and blood, sweat and everything else trying to get the, those events going and, but they're really creating these containers for radical creativity and self-expression and where music and visionary arts could be upheld in a new model of, of honoring them and mutual out something that never took, took root as much as I would love it to. And then kind of translated into producing Lee Festival out here in Asheville, North Carolina for six years. And the ethos behind that was trying to create a dynamic cultural atmosphere, 10 to 15 different nations, people of all walks of life and traditions expressing their music arts culture ceremony and using that as a catalyst to kind of break down isms to reveal that the true depth and value that the rich, creative and cultural expression has beyond politic, beyond social conditioning.Daphne (14m 21s):It's a, you hear one thing about Iranians on on tv, but if you see them doing their Sufi circle dance and chanting and when they're cooking their food at the end of the day, it just really, it's amazing how humanity and expression in those places would really quickly help people bypass certain prejudices without saying a word. We're often dialogue, even intentional and conscious dialogue tend to fail. The expression goes beyond that. So, and of course there is still a rich culture of psychedelics and but these places are, it's kind of underground. It's not necessarily, there's no curated container specifically to facilitate initiation of rights of passage. It's a little bit more rogue, rogue experiencing.Daphne (15m 2s):So after that kind of materialized up to Covid where I was really actually even at that point seeking an exit strategy from that realm, the intensity of producing events is extremely vigorous. I remember in 2019 I had 7,800 emails and countless calls just coordinating three festivals and I'd have children, my three girls just hanging on every limb. And that one more call, one more, one more thing. So it was becoming quite burned out and Covid kind of did me at the time. I didn't think so a bit of a favor and giving me, kind of forcing me into an exit strategy to re-identify myself, not as just a producer and an event organizer, but someone that is deeply passionate about initiatory culture. My catalyst was festivals for initiation or creative initiation.Daphne (15m 43s):And then I went back to where it all began, really sat with the medicine once again, brought myself back into sacramental ceremony. And then I started really gazing at the broad sweeping frontier, the vanguard of the psychedelic emergence now, and saying, this may be a time I could be transparent and real and open about my deep care and use of these plants and medicines for almost 15 years. And so I went ahead and I got a professional coaching certification from I C F, I got a third wave psychedelic certification. It was the first a psychedelic coaching program in the nation back in 2020, in six months of learning the panoramic of psychedelics, preparation, integration, the neuroplasticity, the ethics considerations, dosaging compound understanding.Daphne (16m 24s):So getting that whole holistic review and then the cultivating a practice, a facilitation coaching practice based upon using that psychedelic as a catalyst but in a continuum of deeply intentional self-work and self-care and, and moving into that space with an openness to receive insights. But then really about embodiment. What do you do after you have those lightning bolts of revelation and how do you make that have an impact in your life? So that's been my last few years is serving as a, a ceremonial facilitator and coach in at the psychedelic realm and also a harm reductionist. People are looking for a high integrity experience but have a compound, don't really know how to go about it in a way that's intentional and safe. Really kind of stepping into that space and holding that container for them and being an ally.Ehren (17m 6s):Awesome. Daphne. Hi. Lovely to be back here with you Michael. So I'll start from the beginning and kind of give my whole story inspired by Aaron and the way he just articulated that trajectory. And I started out like we met each other. I think we might have met each other also at Root Wire back in that era. And I found myself in this world as a music producer. I was really heavily investing time and energy into building a music career, DJing, producing under the name few Texture for a long time, starting in around 2009. And that was my main gig for about six years and had some early psychedelic experiences when I was pretty young.Ehren (17m 52s):14, 15, 16 kind of set me off on a path to where I really had a strong inclination that there was something there and was always very interested in them and came into the festival world, into the music world with a very idealistic lens of what these substances could do for us individually as humanity and had my ideal ideals broken completely in a lot of ways. And what I experienced personally through relationships with collaborators, through my own inability to show up in the way that I wanted to in terms of my own ideals, thinking that because I took psychedelics, I was gonna somehow magically be this person who could live up to these ideals of relational integrity and honesty and like really being a beacon of what I perceived as like light, right?Ehren (18m 50s):And really had some issues with spiritual ego when I was younger and kind of had the sense of I've seen these other realms, I, I know more than other people, I'm special. I had all that story and really ended up harming me and other people around me. And it took some pretty significant relational abuse actually that I was experiencing and participating in through a creative relationship to kind of break me outta that illusion, right? That because I am creating interesting forward thinking music with a psychedelic bent in this kind of wild and free community festival community, that somehow I was immune from all of the shadow that exists in our culture in the psyche, in all of these places that I was just very blind to.Ehren (19m 44s):And I think it's a pretty normal developmental thing in your early twenties, and I mean at any age ongoing of course to be, to have places that are less conscious and those are blind spots, right? And so I really was forced through my musical career, through my participation in psychedelic culture to either have the choice to look at those blind spots or continue to ignore them. And I'd look back and I'm really grateful that I, I really did at a certain point be like, damn, I need to go to therapy. You can't do this on my own. I'm really hurting. And in about 2015 I kind of stepped away from music pretty hardcore and really shifted my focus because I was in too much pain.Ehren (20m 28s):I had experienced a lot of relational trauma around that time and started to just do other things peripherally related to music. I worked for MOG for a little bit building synthesizers and found myself doing a lot of personal healing work, kind of getting really real about my own inability to show up as what at the time I was perceiving as like a good person. In retrospect there it was so much more complex than that. And over time, being able to drop the layers of shame and the layers of self-judgment around a lot of those relational patterns I was living out that of course are familial and cultural and all these other things. But I ended up starting doing health coaching work around that time.Ehren (21m 11s):And Michael, that's something that we've connected on on the past episodes around some of the epigenetic coaching work. I do a lot of genetic testing, I do a lot of personalized nutrition, peak performance type work and was doing that pretty steadily from about 2015 to 2019 and I'm still doing it, but over the last three and a half years or so, went and got a master's in mental health counseling, started to really find that a lot of the people I was working with and drawing from my own experiences in therapy and healing, I was like, okay, nutrition and all of these physiological things are very important.Ehren (21m 53s):And what I'm seeing is most of these people need emotional healing. Most of these people need more psycho emotional awareness and healing from trauma and relational patterns. And I just felt really unprepared to do that work as a coach at the time. And also had just tremendous openings into understanding myself better into being able to, yeah, be with discomfort and be with pain in a way that when I was younger was totally off the table. It was like I'm just gonna distract myself fully from all of that through, through jugs, through sensory experiences through the festival world.Ehren (22m 37s):And that's where I got drawn and no regret, like I love that it was what shaped me and I still engage in all of that just with this slightly different way of being with it, not as an escape, but as a way of celebration in contrast with really being able to also be with the more difficult, darker shadow aspects of life and seeing that as a pathway to wholeness rather than avoiding those things. And so that's the work I'm doing now as a therapist, as someone who does psychedelic integration work. I've also done publications on psychedelics.Ehren (23m 18s):I have an article that was in the Journal of Mental Health Counseling a couple years ago. I have another one that's pending right now on psilocybin assisted group therapy that I hope gets through in the international journal group psychotherapy right now. And I'm planning some research also on gender and psychedelics in terms of the way psychedelic experiences impact gender nonconforming and gender expansive people's perception of gender. And I know for me that was one of the early indications that I was transgender was a mushroom experience when I was in my early twenties when I was like, wait, I think I'm a lesbian, I have no idea what this means. And I had no idea how to process it.Ehren (23m 58s):And I kind of stuffed it back down for years and two years until it was just too obvious. But I have, yeah, that's in the works working on IRB approval for that this year. So yeah, kind of have a research bent, do general therapy work with people, do psychedelic assisted work, also still do genetic testing, epigenetic coaching, working on more of the physiological side with people and coming from a holistic health perspective. But yeah, just also to add the other piece in here, I did my internship and worked for a little over a year substance abuse rehab as well, doing therapy there. And so as someone who's been a long time proponent of psychedelics and the potential healing capacity of them, still fully believe that despite my own, and I've had many important experiences to counter what I was saying earlier around them also creating sometimes an idealized version of self without doing the work to get there.Ehren (24m 57s):I worked in a rehab working with people who've had maladaptive relationships with substances and it was a very important counter to my own, again, idealized image and idealized perception of the human relationship with substances. And so I, coming out of that, I actually left in December starting in opening up my private practice with I think a much more balanced understanding of all the different ways humans can be in relationship to substances from full on avoidance to transcendence and self-awareness. And I really love to be able to hold both of those perspectives and work with people on all sides of that spectrum because there's not just necessarily a clean one thing one way or the other for people.Ehren (25m 45s):I find myself and Michael, you and I have talked about this weaving in and out of those relationships of where we end up relating to different substances in good or more harmful ways. And I think there's an importance to be able to be honest with ourselves and with people that we're working with around, yeah, what is this really? What is this really doing for me? And what am I getting out of this? And sometimes it's okay to lean on a substance for pain relief or for disassociation intentionally, right? But like at a certain point, like how do we learn how to take what, and I think this is true regardless of how we're using any substance, how do we learn from it and take what this substance is helping us with and kind of learn how to do it on our own in certain ways.Ehren (26m 36s):And so that's, I think maybe where this roundabout description of my life right now is leading to is that point of I'm very interested in regardless of the substance, regardless of what it is, whether it's heroin, whether you're using heroin to avoid painful emotion, how do you learn how to be without yourself, without the substance, right? Or whether you're using ayahuasca or L s D to access the transcendent and become more aware of the deep capacity for inner love and compassion that's already inside of you. Like how do you learn how to do that in a stable, grounded way on your own right? And I, I think there's a, a parallel, right that I think is lost in the discourse about drugs in general that I'd love to bring in.Michael (27m 22s):So that's actually right where I want to be for this cuz I think should not come as a surprise to anyone that there is this rather obvious isomorphism, I guess in people's relationship to ecstatic events generally to the festival as some, as a phenomenon that has its origins in the acknowledgement and re you know, the recognition and enactment of a relationship to sort of vertical access or a horizontal, like a transcendent experience of time rather than just a one damn thing after another duration Kronos clock time that there's, it's an observance of a kind of a holy dimension to our lives.Michael (28m 17s):And at one point these were all woven together much more intimately than they are today in our lives. The, the holiday has become something that is, and the festivals generally have become something that is more about a pressure valve or kind of escape from the oppression of our lives rather than something that's woven into the fabric of, or our everyday expect the observances of sacred hours in a monastic sense. And so likewise, I think if you were to believe the anthropological take on substance use, the various substances were held more like, more formally, like I think that all of us have participated in a number of discussions, are well aware of ayahuasca in particular being something that is still very much implicated within this fabric of specific cultural utility under understand and practice.Michael (29m 24s):But a lot of these things exist. For instance, ketamine is something that is either in, it's used as a medical anesthetic primarily until just a few years ago, or it's used as a club drug. And so there's a, it doesn't have that same sort of unity of purpose and the same clarity as far as the way that it's being applied and it lacks a, a lineage or a continuity where it's not like John Lilly had a, a tribe of people that he coached on how to do this. He was like people experimenting on their own. And I mean the same goes also for other, more, more recently discovered synthetic substances like L S D and also for substances that had a more focused and time-honored indigenous tradition around them like psilocybin, but either through just the proliferation of GarageBand type experimentation taking over as the primary cultural mode or whatever like we have.Michael (30m 30s):So there's this whole spectrum of the ways that different substances either have managed to maintain or never or have gotten away from, or never actually even had a system of protocols within which their use could be more or less responsibly engaged. And of course, I'm not saying that there's a ton of examples in which ayahuasca is not even within, even within settings that claim to be responsible. And anyway, this is just a nimbus of considerations around the question, which is where is the line between escapism healthier approaches or like sometimes escapism, like you just said, Daphne is actually healthy if it's encountered in a way or if we people are en engaging this in a way that is not just con ongoing peak ex seeking of peak experiences.Michael (31m 28s):I mean, I think one more thing I'll say to this is that I've seen people, and it should, I'm sure anyone listening to this has also seen people who engage traditions that are about in more, you might think like endogenous substances like running or meditation that have strong cultural containers, but there are always leaks in these containers or these containers themselves are not typically are, are not healthy. Like I've seen ayahuasca ceremonies that were the, the, that particular community depended on the patronage in order to do its work of people who had managed to kind of trick themselves into thinking that they were doing important spiritual work, but were just kind of had become gluttons or for punishment or like masochists that were just in there to purge, heal DNA traumas or whatever for their retroactive lineal healing week after week after week.Michael (32m 31s):And nothing was actually changing. They had gotten themselves into a loop. And so I'm, yeah, I'm curious how does one ever, how does one actually even begin to recognize when something has crossed over from healthy into unhealthy? Like what is, where is the line? It seems rather contextual and I mean there were, it's funny because, I mean just to bring it back to festivals and then I'll stop, it wasn't ever really clear to me. I mean, it was clear when lip service was being paid to transformation and that was a load of shit because I think that was used as a lure by and still is by event organizers and promoters to bait people into buying a ticket but wasn't really held in the right way in those events.Michael (33m 19s):And then there are times when every effort is made to do this stuff sincerely, but is not really handled in a way that makes it success, you know. And the same can be said for anything, I mean for like educational television is an example of something that people have been fighting over for almost a century. Whether the medium, whether the format of this makes these tools effective, potentially effective, problematic in their actual implementation, et cetera. So this is a much bigger conversation than a conversation about drugs really. It's a conversation about how mu how far we can engage in a particular type of relation to a, a practice of self transformation or transcendence or illumination or education or whatever before it becomes more trouble than it's worth or before.Michael (34m 11s):We need to call in some sort of balancing factor. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts at length and I'd love to hear you kind of back and forth about this.Daphne (34m 19s):Yeah, there's so much there man. That is a panoramic for sure. One of the things to kind of look at here is that the idea of the recreational use of, of a psychoactive or a psychedelic compound is 50, 60 years old. The lineage of using Sacramento entheogenic compounds is at least 40,000 years old for the time of megalithic cave paintings, size of football fields made with depth pigmentation that is with techniques that have somehow have the endurance to be still on those walls this year later is with sac ceremonial initiations and MAs and sabertooth and many mushrooms along the bottom.Daphne (34m 59s):So perhaps even people have said such as stems and McKenna, the origin of cultural or creativity of artistic creativity might have been spawned or germinated through the use of psychedelic compounds, the self-awareness and the potential for di interdimensional realization. But you look at Theon that was used with eloc mysteries, the type of reverence people have taken for one time in their entire life to, to walk to the Elian temple from Athens, the distance of a marathon fasting, moving into that experience with great care, great reverence, having an initiation with an ergo wine, a compound that's now been synthesizing the LSDs in 47. But originally was the, the rye, the barley grain, the ergot there infused into a beverage and seeing the immortality of the soul dramatized in front of you by our initiatory rights of passage theater in Egypt.Daphne (35m 50s):And you know, the temples of Ocirus, which had little mandrakes wrapped around its feet, or isis, which had little mushrooms at the feed. And those particular lineages of priesthoods and priestesses would utilize compounds to commune and learn the subtle language of that particular medicine in collaboration with ritual and practice to help to uphold virtues of different aspects of the civilization. And you go all around from the flesh of the god's, Aztec, MasTec, olmec, TOK cultures, ayahuasca, there's probably 10 different brews in that region, thousands of years old Abor, pati bush, west Africa, psilocybins everywhere, Druids Nordic culture.Daphne (36m 31s):I mean, but you look at the way upon which peyote cactus, you used it in a way that was like, here is an ally, here is a teacher, here is a compatriot a an essence of something that I work in cohesion with in order for me to learn how to navigate my own life evolutionary process in greater symbiotic relationship with the world around me, how I commune with the divine and with more, I guess visceral potency to allow that philosophical faith that aspiring Christians across the world hold this philosophical arm length faith that when things go sour where send in love and light when things are fine, I forget I'm even affiliated or associated with any kind of denomination.Daphne (37m 15s):And it's really an interesting thing when you have a different mindset of we are in a continuum of connectivity to an interdimensional web of life and that there's an interdependence between us and these different realms of being to try to embody and embrace a life that is a virtue or an integrity or create community based around these deeper ethics and values that are being kind of almost divinely inspired. And now you're coming into a timer where that has been systematically eradicated beyond all else, whether it's the early Catholic church with the Council of naia, that plant medicine, the original Nixon move was in 3 89 ad pretty much when plant medicine was absolutely persecuted feminine that he, the hosts or the feminine energy that often was the catalyst of working together in communion with the plants and offering it the original catacombs, the nasta catacombs where they find ergot wines and such that probably the original Eucharist was a psychedelic medicine.Daphne (38m 13s):All of that was completely ousted and nothing has been persecuted harder than plant medicine. And so then coming into contemporary society, the reintroduction, whether was through the scientific land, rogue experimentation, GaN coming up with massive amounts of compounds, Albert Hoffman. But when it started to infuse into academia, it again started moving people into this awareness that is, this compound is not just therapeutic, it is creating something within it that is inspiring Nas, a deeper wisdom, a deeper sense of internal communion with life force that is beyond something that can be charted on a bar graph or triangulated with an abacus.Daphne (38m 56s):And so that, and then they, the considerations of set and setting and if you're gonna host an experiment, how do you, how do you hold a psychedelic space without being on a psychedelic? And there is a lot of challenges there because it just, it is a type of experience that almost necessitates an A, a visceral embodied awareness to even understand how to support in any kind of way because of the potency and the gravity and the expansion of what that is is something you can't read on chapter seven and have a good grasp on how to facilitate or how to curate. But that whole experience, what it ended up happening is that the disruptive nature of people thinking, perceiving, expanding in a way that is unformed or nonconform to the status quos growing industrial complex and commercial material culture created a real schism reality.Daphne (39m 47s):And so people that felt like they wanted to embrace and imbibe had to flee, had to go to the woods and had to lock themselves. And Stella Stellar or like Chris Beige who just came out with L S D in the mining universe of absolutely prolific book for 20 years, had to hide his L S D ceremonial work and testing and deep psychospiritual results until he was 10 years past 10 retired to, to finally come out with the fruits of his labor. It just created his isolatory world and framework. And so now we're saying, escapees, please come back. Like you all had to run away to do your compound and try to find yourself and your consciousness, but you, we want you back in community and the old deadheads and those that are kind of in that lineage is like, it's just not safe over there.Daphne (40m 30s):We're gonna keep it in the parks, we're gonna keep it in the fields and if we come back over there, we're gonna be always outcasted as the hippies that are just avantgarde and fringe. And so it's a real interesting dynamic in culture where we want to infuse the intelligence and the beauty of the transformation that these things can uphold. But then we don't actually have a paradigm that allows people to be expansive and allows people to be avantgarde and ecstatic in these different things without feeling that they're actually a real challenge to our core sets of cultural beliefs. So part of this kind of third wave that we're seeing right now is the reintroduction of that outcasted, psychedelic culture.Daphne (41m 10s):And it's now in a, into a space of deeper therapeutic respect where they're seeing through the results of John Hopkins in Imperial College of London and all these other studies that the power in P T S D complex, P T S D and a addiction and trauma for, with intentionality with a progressive path that includes a holistic wellbeing, body, mind, spirit care, deep intentionality, using it as a catalyst, catalyst and integration process that this can be something that can allow somebody to at least get a sense where is that inner compass, where is that inner sense of who I am? And it's an immersive culture, so you kind of drip dry, you dunk 'em in that space, they get, oh, that's what home is. I, okay, I remember, oh wait, it's going away from me.Daphne (41m 51s):It's go, I'm starting to forget. And that's where devotional practice and self-care and all those things are the real way to really supporting and sustaining that. But I think where psychedelics help is it imprints or imbues a remembrance of where that space is and to your port Michael, like once you get that deep message, then it's time to do the work. What decisions in my life, what relationships, habits, patterns, distractions, what is in my life that is taking me away from that center, make those earnest actions, make those earnest choices, and then have a sense of where that foundation is. Then if you name for growing, maybe you do revisit with the medicine in an alliance in a way that is understanding that it isn't, it's an aid, it's not a, it's not a panacea, it's never meant to be, but it helps you at times to say, okay, here's a reminder, here's your truth, here's where you can be if you let go of the drama, the guilt, shame and baggage and, but really you still got a lot of work to do on those faces before you can say that you're, we're all we're a whole.Daphne (42m 48s):So there's a nice, there's a nice kind of panoramic or a dance going on here with this third waves trying to rebrace indigenous culture and the long lineage of ceremony, trying to respect the research, trying to bring people back from the fridge of alchemy and then trying to bring about awareness to those that have been tabooed for 50 years in the Nixon war. That there's actually some vitality and merit to re reengaging with this consciousness expansion. Beautiful.Ehren (43m 12s):I wanna pick up on a couple pieces there, Erin, especially around the embodiment piece and where I see that as being a really critical component of the way that psychedelics are being reintroduced into the therapeutic community, into the way we're looking at this. And I kind of want to frame it in the context of the way Western psychotherapy has developed over the last 100 years because Michael, as you brought up, we don't have a lineage necessarily that we're drawing from. As these things are starting to become back, back into research, back into culture. John Lilly didn't have a tribe to draw from, right? He didn't. He was out there outlaw on his own doing it.Ehren (43m 55s):And in so many ways, what we're seeing right now is the people that have been experimenting, coming back together, having the capacity to get federal grant fund private funding and having these inroads into saying, all right, now that we've had these experiences, how do we codify them and provi present them in a way that's palatable to the skeptics, to the people that have assumed that this is just for hippies and people that you know off their rocker, right? And what I wanna look at is like the sense of when psychedelics were being explored in the fifties and sixties, the dominant modalities and theories that were being used therapeutically were still very Freudian and psychodynamic, psychoanalytic really meaning that predominantly they were mental, there was not necessarily the component of the body being brought in gestalt therapy, definitely the early kind of version of a lot of somatic therapies that are more popular now.Ehren (44m 57s):But that wasn't popular therapy at that time. It was being developed in the fifties and sixties, but it didn't make its way into a larger mainstream understanding of the importance of an embodied relationship to the mind and to the emotions until much later on, and especially in the nineties, early two thousands and up to now, there's been a pretty strong somatic revolution in psychotherapy saying, we need to incorporate the body, we need to incorporate the way that most people have heard at this point, the idea that trauma is stored in the body, in the nervous system. And there's absolutely a truth to that and it's kind of an oversimplification of it, but it's true that order to access the, the way we can reprocess memories, the way we can re-pattern our nervous systems, like we do have to include the body for the most part.Ehren (45m 49s):Sometimes inside is enough, but rarely, right? And so that's the trap that psychotherapy and talk therapy found itself in for a long time was not including that. And so that was also the frame that psychedelic work was being looked at when it was being researched in the fifties when it was being explored also through the kind of the outliers as well. I don't think there was as much of a com a understanding of that embodied nature of the experience as we're talking about now. And when you look at some of the models that are being put forth, I'm specifically thinking of Rosalyn Watts at Imperial College in London has this really beautiful model called the ACE model or accept connect and body model that they're using in psilocybin research that really includes the body, right?Ehren (46m 40s):Includes the what is happening in your body in this moment as you're experiencing this, and is it possible to move towards this and treat whatever is happening, whether it's painful, disturbing, difficult to be with compassion and with acceptance. And that parallels most, if not all of the current understandings of some of the best ways to do therapy with people looking at things like internal family systems or EMDR or many of the therapeutic modalities that essentially ask people to revisit traumatic memories or traumatic experiences, traumatic emotions with a deeper sense of love and compassion.Ehren (47m 20s):And when you look at the core of a lot of what the psychedelic research is showing, I think around why these things work for trauma healing, why these, these things work for PTs D, why these things work for longstanding depression or addiction, it's because they do give people access, like you said, Aaron, to that remembrance, right? To that remembrance of I'm more than this limited ego self that experiences pain and suffering. I actually have access, I can remember this access to some source of love that I feel in my body, I feel in my heart. And I can use that as a way to soften and be with the parts of me that I generally don't want to be with.Ehren (48m 2s):Like it opens up that capacity to do that. And it's the same thing that I do with clients through internal family systems and other ways of psychotherapy. It just magnifies that capacity for people to find that within themselves really fast and really quickly. You know what I mean? If you've ever done M D M A, like you just wanna love everyone, you feel it. It's an embodied experience, right? And so the levels of that which people can access that in those states gives people this greater capacity than like you said, to almost bookmark that or have a way of coming back to it, remembering ongoing.Ehren (48m 43s):And so that's the integration work. And I wanna bring this back, Michael, also to what you were saying about the institutions of festival culture, taking these experiences and marketing them as transformational and actually somehow pulling that label away from that embodied experience of what it's like to have that remembrance that into the right conditions and circumstances creates the conditions for internal transformation through that remembering, right? Like that's the individual experience that sometimes happens in a place where you have autonomy to do whatever drugs you want and beyond whatever wavelength you want to get on with a bunch of people who are also doing the same thing, right?Ehren (49m 32s):That approximates in some ways what we're seeing in the therapeutic research, just not in a contained setting, right? And then seeing festival culture kind of take that and label the festival as that rather than the experience that some people have as that. And I think that it brings up this larger conversation right now around the psychedelic industry and what we can learn maybe from the failures of transformational festival culture and the successes when we're talking about how psychedelics might be marketed to people as a therapeutic tool. Because I see the exact same pitfalls, I see the exact same appeal to any company that wants to present the psychedelic experience as inherently healing no matter what.Ehren (50m 22s):In the same way that a transformational festival wants to present the idea that coming to this festival is gonna gonna create transformation for you no matter what, and leaves out all of the specific conditions and containers and importance of all the pieces that come together to create the safety, create the container, create the, the ripening of that internal remembering and what do you do with it, right? What do you actually do with it? What, how are you being prompted to know what to do with it? And I too, Michael, remember the notion of the transformational festival and going, what does this actually mean?Ehren (51m 2s):What are we trying to transform into? What is this? What is this thing? What is this buzzword? And it's funny because the most of the transformation I, I've experienced in my own life has come from outside of that. And then those experiences now actually are like these celebratory experiences that I'm not running away from at the time they were more these escapist type things. And again, I'm gonna steer it back to that question of like, where's that line? Because I, I think it's in context with all this, all the things I was, I've just mentioned around, it's so contextual, it's so individual around where that line is for people. It's so individual where that line is between going and wanting to have an experience versus actually having it.Ehren (51m 50s):And there's no way for me or you or Erin to be an arbiter of that for someone it has someone deciding, but doing it in an honest way, right? Of like, how much am I actually moving towards parts of myself that I haven't been able to be with or haven't been able to understand or haven't been able to find love and compassion for or treat in a way that's more humane or more in relationship to a higher set of ideals or perhaps a more maybe something like an indigenously informed I set of ideals around interconnectedness and how much am I continuing to engage with substances as a way to trick myself into thinking that I might be doing that or that just I'm straight up just having a great time so I don't have to deal with that shit.Ehren (52m 45s):And I think that there's the potential for either of that in the festival world, in the commercialized, institutionalized medicalized model, in the coaching model in any of these places. And I think I'm gonna just speak from my own experience as a therapist, like working in a rehab, right? Like I've seen people, you know, substances aside come in and pretend like they're doing the work and just totally diluting themselves and, and we see what that looks like. But sometimes it's easier for people just to kind of pretend like they're going through the steps and the motions and that's what people are ready for and that's okay too. That has to be part of, of the process.Ehren (53m 26s):I've experienced that. I've experienced that self illusion of thinking I'm going somewhere when I'm really just treading water. And there's that, I think it's an important and a natural step actually in any part, right? It's kind of the pre-contemplation part in the stages of change where you have to want to change before you want to change before you change. And I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that the idea of transformation might be prompted by something like a transformational festival or by the idea of doing therapy or by the idea of whatever modality you're seeking to change with. But yeah, I just get the sense that there's no clear answer to that question around where that line is it's individual and that I'm curious to explore more around like how we've experienced that festival realm and how that might translates into the work we're doing now and what we're seeing in the larger context of, of kind of the rollout of a more mainstream version of psychedelics.Michael (54m 24s):Can I focus this a little bit before I bounce it back to you, Aaron? Because I think, and thank you both for that. One of the, the things that strikes me about all of this is that I think about that classic rat park experiment that, you know, where it showed that laboratory rats don't just by default prefer the cocaine button over food, that there are these un unhealthy addictive patterns are actually, and I talked about this, another expert in unhealthy addictive patterns. Charles Shaw, right? Old friend and complicated figure.Ehren (55m 4s):I love that episode by the way, way back.Michael (55m 6s):She's not way back. Charles is somebody who has been a real pain in the ass to a lot of people over the years, but I think really walks this line now and his, he's, he's gonna mature as a wounded healer into the role of addiction counselor and helping people through these same kind of trials that he himself has been through in his life. And Charles made the point in that I think it was episode 58 or thereabouts, that the addiction is actually the brain doing what it should be doing. Now it's, and I'll be talking about this with some neuroscientists at some point this year also, that the brain, if you think about it as like an uncertainty reduction or free energy minimization, these terms that are floating around now, that the brain is a tool for inference.Michael (55m 50s):And so it likes to be able to make parsimonious predictions about its own future states and about the future of its environment. And in a weird way, addiction facilitates in that. Like when I had Eric Wargo on the show, he was talking about how many people he thinks are precognitive individuals like Harlan Ellison famous science fiction writer who wrote a lot of time travel fiction and has a, you know, that a lot of these people have problems with alcoholism or, or drug use. Philip Kate, Dick, there's a way in which I'm drunk today and I'm gonna be drunk tomorrow, is actually doing, is the brain doing what it's been tasked to do? So there's that on one piece. And then the other piece is that the rat park thing, when at that experiment, when you put rats together with one another in an environment that allows a much more so like a greater surface area for social encounters and more exercise and so on, that they actually prefer the company of other rats and quote unquote healthy behaviors over these repetitive self stimulating addictive behaviors.Michael (56m 57s):And I look at the last few years and how covid in particular seems it the lockdowns people getting stuck in their home for months at a time, the uncertainty of a, a really turbulent environment, the specter of these an ever tightening cinch or vice of government interventions or just the fear of people being as hats and not doing socially responsible behaviors as a res, as a reaction to this crisis. I mean there's just like all of these ways that that mental health has come to the foreground through all of us going through this collective trauma together.Michael (57m 42s):And like we were, Aaron and I were talking about before the call started, the living in Santa Fe in New Mexico, in a place that is so much of its character is about it being a concentration of indigenous people living on reservation, trying to make their way in, in community with wave after wave of European colonists that matters of we're like this relationship between oppression, trauma, substance abuse, or addictive behavior. It's all really interesting. And like the last piece I'll stack on this is when I had Tyson Yoko on the show and Tyson talked about how that this kind of pattern is not unique to peoples that have a very centuries long history of abuse and oppression.Michael (58m 31s):There is, you see opioid crisis coming up very prominently in Pennsylvania, coal mining communities whose way of life has been disrupted by changes in the energy sector by, by massive motions in the world market. And so suddenly you have lots of alcoholism and Oxycontin and fentanyl abuse and so on in, in these places as well. I mean, I guess Daphne especially curious in your sense, you know, in, in this relationship with you're thinking on transgender matters issues, this thing about this relationship between, like you said earlier about getting yourself out of the cage of a particular maladaptive model of self and the way that's related to getting oneself out of the cage of one's condition, like the actual material conditions of one's life.Michael (59m 25s):Because again, just a last callback to another episode, it, the episode I had with Chris Ryan who his book Civilized to Death, he talks about how far we've gone in the modern era from kind of environment that is actually good for the human body and the human mind and how, you know, the covid being a kind of apotheosis of that, of everyone living almost entirely in, in these digital spaces or being forced through economic concerns to work in very dangerous environments without adequate protection. So I mean, I just, yeah, a yarn ball of stuff, but really curious about this, and I feel like you've both addressed some of this already, but just to refocus on this particular corner of it, the way that, you know, addictive behaviors and abusive patterns seem to be the result of structural issues and that the self is also something that emerges out of a dynamic and relational set of feedbacks with that environment.Michael (1h 0m 43s):And so who you are is a kind of reflection of or ever-evolving trace fossil of the world in which you find yourself. And so like when people talk about getting over trauma, like one of the, one of the big, the three main things that people talk about are again and again and all of them find some sort of foothold in or expression in various psychedelic practices. But one is service, one is creative work writing or inquiry, right? Autobiographical writing especially. And then one is travel or pilgrimage and there's a way in which the psychedelic ceremonial container can facilitate anyone or all three of those.Michael (1h 1m 27s):But yeah, I mean it just strikes me that like more, as more and more people come out as neurodivergent or come out as trans in some way or another, or are trying to maintain their sanity in a set of socioeconomic circumstances over which they have no control, that there's something that comes into light here about the way that we're no long like in a, I don't know, I put it like self-discovery of our parents' generation of the second wave of psychedelics in the west was in its own way more about breaking free of the strictures of squared dom, but had an emphasis on much like it was part and parcel with this other thing that was going on, which was this proliferation of lifestyle consumerism.Michael (1h 2m 20s):And Charles Shaw and I talked about that too, about the way that these drives for transcendence were co-opted by finding yourself, meaning settling into kind of understanding rather than a phase change into a more plural or multidimensional or metamorphic understanding of the self. And especially in a regime of extremely granular and pervasive and pernicious behavioral engineering empowered by digital surveillance technologies. It strikes me that there's something that Richard Doyle has talked about this, that like psychedelics are kind of a training wheels for the Transhuman condition and for what it means to live in a network society where you may not actually want to settle on an identity at all.Michael (1h 3m 9s):You know that the identity itself is the trap. So I don't know, I don't know. I thought I was focusing things, but I just blew it up into, anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that particular matter.Ehren (1h 3m 20s):I'll speak briefly to just that notion around connection and social in the Rat Park piece. I mean there's a reason why any type of addiction therapy is like the gold standard is group therapy and why AA groups and all these things, despite their problems still are so popular is because getting connected with community and people that actually understand you is probably the most healing thing out of anything more mu, I mean, working through trauma is important, but having a network of people that you can call and be in relationship to is what I've seen to be the most healing thing for people. And it actually brings up this revision of what I was saying before in a way around the transformational festivals where in retrospect, the most transformational thing for me about those spaces I was inhabiting for so long are these sustained continued connections that we have now with each other, right?Ehren (1h 4m 15s):And like that's where the real magic was actually gaining these deeper relationships with people who understand us. And I think when we look at oppression and look at the systems that prevent people from feeling like it's okay to be who they are, or that there's an inherent shame in the case of trans people or inherent fear of being seen or in the case of economic disparity that like you are stuck in this place and you're going to be stripped and taken advantage of and there's no way out, right? It's a very disconnecting, isolating thing. And even though there can be these pockets of connection between people that are continuously stuck in poverty or contin, continuously stuck in a sense of, as a trans person, I'm constantly being repressed and targeted and there is community in that very often the most healing thing that's needed is to actually integrate back into culture and to change the systems that are creating that disconnection and oppression in the first place, right?Ehren (1h 5m 26s):And it's this open question right now for me in terms of when we're talking about substance abuse, like those communities are breeding grounds for it because that's the way people deal. That's they're, they work, right? Substances work. That's why people use them. And I always look at it like there's nothing wrong with you for going with a strategy that works, but when it comes to psychedelics, what you're saying I think is really important around how do we actually integrate this into an understanding of how we are interconnected with other people and that our own personal work needs to include a justice component or a component of social change or influencing other people's healing to other people's place in the world.Ehren (1

It's great to be obsessed with your sport and the community around it.Until ...There's a pandemic and a lockdownYou get hurtYou come down with some kind of chronic illness that makes exercise hardSomething happens in the community that's against your values and that you can't get behindYou get ostracized by that community for whatever reasonEtc.So what's the antidote? Building a RAT PARK.What the cheese balls am I talking about?It's a concept from addiction science.The gist: having a rich and pleasurable life is good insurance against compulsive and self destructive behavior.(Including, ahem, exercising and achieving excessively as ways to avoid facing your problems.)This week on the Climb Your Mountain podcast, we're going to talk about all the reasons it's worth having a rich and pleasurable life OUTSIDE your sport.Listen, learn, and get to work creating your own rat park.Resources Mentioned:Savage Summit [Book] (aff.)

In this interview, Blake takes us deeper into our relationship with alcohol so we can better understand its impact on us and our relationships. Contact Thad - VictoriousVeteranProject@Gmail.comThanks for listening!

Reclaiming Faithfulness as an Act of Rebellion, part 4: Return to Rat Park