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Cliffe & Stuart Knechtle Episode: https://youtu.be/ZSf7o3Jel_gDr. Jacobs compares how Eastern and Western Christianity understand Christ's death on the cross, examining the theological differences that emerged over centuries. The discussion traces the Western development from Augustine through the Protestant Reformers and their focus on penal substitution, while exploring Eastern perspectives from church fathers like Gregory of Nyssa. Dr. Jacobs analyzes these competing views of atonement and their implications for how Christians understand salvation and God's justice.All the links: X: https://x.com/NathanJacobsPodSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0hSskUtCwDT40uFbqTk3QSApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-nathan-jacobs-podcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/thenathanjacobspodcastSubstack: https://nathanajacobs.substack.com/Website: https://www.nathanajacobs.com/Academia: https://vanderbilt.academia.edu/NathanAJacobs00:00:00 Intro 00:01:43 The average understanding of the crucifixion 00:06:03 The Western evolution (Latin West and Protestant Reformation) 00:31:01 The Christian East and the Church Fathers
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 1): Transcending Our Created Limitation (Recapitulation Theory) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 2): Transforming Our Hardheartedness (Moral Example Theory) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 3): Redeeming Our Human Debt (Satisfaction/Ransom Theory) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 4): Relieving Our Judgement (Penal Substitution Theory) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 5): Defeating Sin & Death (Christus Victor Theory) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
March-April 2025 | Divine Exchange (Wk 6): Uniting Us with God (Participation/Theosis Theories) | Throughout the season of Lent, we unpack six theories of Jesus's atonement (that great divine exchange), exploring all the possibilities of how Jesus achieved redemption of all the world, wrestling and finding the holes in what Christians have been known to believe, and re-centering God's love in the story of redemption as we consider the lengths to which God would go and all that God would give to be with us.
Send us a textAvoid God's wrath by joining Ben, Jonny, Adam and returning guest James Sholl, pastor of Toronto's Wellspring Worship Centre, as they ask 'why did Jesus (have to) die?' Is penal substitution just divine child abuse? Does Jürgen Moltmann's solidarity theory hold up? And most importantly, how many times can Ben say the words "lick out" before we never want a Caramel Egg again? Plus learn about Saint of the Week, Trevor Carter, the Windrush-generation communist who co-founded Notting Hill Carnival.Content warning: May contain traces of heresySupport the showEverything Bread and Rosaries does will be free for everyone forever, but it does cost money to produce so if you wish to support the show on Patreon, we'd love you forever!Music credits at this link
Matt Slick Live (Live Broadcast of 03-19-2025) is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry (CARM). Matt answers questions on topics such as: The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues! You can also email questions to Matt using: info@carm.org, Put "Radio Show Question" in the Subject line! Answers will be discussed in a future show. Topics Include:What Did Mormon Theology Originally Teach About Black People?/ Matt discusses his Speaking Engagement topic of Eastern Orthodoxy and How that many of the Adherents follow the system/Penal Substitution. What is it?/The Importance of Knowing Christian Doctrine/ What About Baptism for Infants?/ Recapitulation and The EO, What is it?/ March 19, 2025
Matt Slick Live (Live Broadcast of 03-19-2025) is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry (CARM). Matt answers questions on topics such as: The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues! You can also email questions to Matt using: info@carm.org, Put "Radio Show Question" in the Subject line! Answers will be discussed in a future show. Topics Include:What Did Mormon Theology Originally Teach About Black People?/ Matt discusses his Speaking Engagement topic of Eastern Orthodoxy and How that many of the Adherents follow the system/Penal Substitution. What is it?/The Importance of Knowing Christian Doctrine/ What About Baptism for Infants?/ Recapitulation and The EO, What is it?/ March 19, 2025
Matt Slick Live (Live Broadcast of 03-19-2025) is a production of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry (CARM). Matt answers questions on topics such as: The Bible, Apologetics, Theology, World Religions, Atheism, and other issues! You can also email questions to Matt using: info@carm.org, Put "Radio Show Question" in the Subject line! Answers will be discussed in a future show. Topics Include:What Did Mormon Theology Originally Teach About Black People?/ Matt discusses his Speaking Engagement topic of Eastern Orthodoxy and How that many of the Adherents follow the system/Penal Substitution. What is it?/The Importance of Knowing Christian Doctrine/ What About Baptism for Infants?/ Recapitulation and The EO, What is it?/ March 19, 2025
This week Andrew Wilson walks us through Isaiah 53 to teach us the penal substitution of the cross. Outlining the surprise, substitution, silence and spoils of the cross.
On this episode, Keith responds to a video put out by Protestia News from Rev. Mitchell Boone of First United Methodist Church in Dallas where he argues for a unique view of the atonement and rejects Penal Substitutionary Atonement. Support the Show: http://www.buymeacoffee.com/YourcalvinistLove Coffee? Want the Best? Get a free bag of Squirrelly Joe's Coffee by clicking on this link: https://www.Squirrellyjoes.com/yourcalvinistor use coupon code "Keith" for 20% off anything in the storeDominion Wealth Strategies Visit them at https://www.dominionwealthstrategists.comhttp://www.Reformed.Moneyand let them know we sent you! https://www.TinyBibles.comYou can get the smallest Bible available on the market, which can be used for all kinds of purposes, by visiting TinyBibles.com and when you buy, use the coupon code KEITH for a discount. Private Family BankingSend an email inquiry to banking@privatefamilybanking.comReceive a FREE e-book entitled "How to Build Multi-Generational Wealth Outside of Wall Street and Avoid the Coming Banking Meltdown", by going to https://www.protectyourmoneynow.net Set up a FREE Private Family Banking Discovery call using this link: https://calendly.com/familybankingnowGet the Book "What Do We Believe" from Striving for Eternity Ministrieshttp://www.whatdowebelievebook.com/Be sure to use the coupon code: Keithhttps://www.HighCallingFitness.comHealth, training, and nutrition coaching all delivered to you online by confessionally reformed bodybuilders and strength athletes.The official cigar of Your Calvinist Podcast:https://www.1689cigars.com Buy our podcast shirts and hats: https://yourcalvinist.creator-spring.comVisit us at https://www.KeithFoskey.comIf you need a great website, check out https://www.fellowshipstudios.com
**Content Warning: Sexual Themes**Join George and Elle as they explore the text of Leviticus Chapter 20!Send in questions to TextInUs@gmail.com for our Mailbox Episodes!
Episode 115: Year C – The Feast of the Presentation of the Lord In today's episode, we focus on several details from the first and second readings, along with the Gospel, for this upcoming Feast of the Presentation of the Lord that are related to apologetical discussions. One detail comes from the first reading, taken […]
How can I argue against Penal Substitution? What is Transubstantiation? What is the redactional history of the Gospels? This and more in Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders.
Episode 115: Year C – The Feast of the Presentation of the Lord In today's episode, we focus on several details from the first and second readings, along with the Gospel, for this upcoming Feast of the Presentation of the Lord that are related to apologetical discussions. One detail comes from the first reading, taken from Malachi 3:1-4, and the related topic is Purgatory. Another detail comes from the second reading, taken from Hebrews 2:14-18, and the apologetical topic that this detail relates to is the theory of penal substitutionary theory. The remaining details, three in total, com…
How can I argue against Penal Substitution? What is Transubstantiation? What is the redactional history of the Gospels? This and more in Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders.
The Atonement doctrine of Penal Substitution, Jesus paying for my sins, is well established in Christianity. A majority of LDS hymns would attest to that fact. But, in reality, do Mormons really believe it?
Fiction lovers looking for transcendence? What's the difference between imputation, active and passive obedience to Christ? Sacrifice of Atonement vs. Penal Substitution? This and more in today's Called to Communion.
LIVESTREAM Episode Order My Book: https://a.co/d/1vjiC16 Support The Ministry: https://patreon.com/thechurchsplit Donate: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=DNCPKRQVTBD5E Music Credit: Bensound, High Octane - #2215113
LIVESTREAM: Skip first 2 minutes to avoid intro music. Support The Ministry: https://patreon.com/thechurchsplit Donate: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=DNCPKRQVTBD5E Order My Book: https://a.co/d/1vjiC16 Music Credit: Bensound, High Octane - #2215113
LIVESTREAM: Skip first 2 minutes Order My Book: https://a.co/d/1vjiC16 Support The Ministry: https://patreon.com/thechurchsplit Donate: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=DNCPKRQVTBD5E Music Credit: Bensound, High Octane - #2215113
Fiction lovers looking for transcendence? What's the difference between imputation, active and passive obedience to Christ? Sacrifice of Atonement vs. Penal Substitution? This and more in today's Called to Communion.
Discover why the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement might conflict with God's character of justice and love. Was Jesus truly punished in our place to satisfy divine wrath? Or does this theory misrepresent the biblical narrative? Explore a scripturally grounded alternative that upholds God's justice and mercy without moral contradictions. Can sin be forgiven if it's fully punished? Challenge your understanding of the cross in this thought-provoking video.
The Gospel of John depicts a real world deliverance from fear, real world healing from sin and slavery, and this is captured in John's deployment of Passover and treatment of Isaiah and the Suffering Servant, in which human evil (not God) results in his suffering and God brings mercy and healing from out of his oppression. This stands in contrast to Calvin's depiction of God punishing Jesus because he is identified with the Azazel Goat, identifying him with sin and, in many Calvinist's view, hating Christ. If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to support our work. Become a Patron!
Did God really sacrifice Himself to save us from Himself? The common and somewhat superficial formula cannot support a serious faith. A more serious look at the Gospels reveals that Jesus' sacrifice does not rescue us from God's wrath, but from sin's death.
Atonement Theories are foundational to any denomination or faith group ‘statements of faith'. MOST believers have no idea what they mean or how they were developed. Most of us were given a very simple description of what they meant and you need to agree and believe it if you want to remain a part of ‘our fellowship'. No room to question anything. Well, here on ‘Still Growing In Grace', we question everything and search for a more ‘hope-filled perspective'. Enjoy this mini series as we explore a better perspective of who God is and how that affects how we love others!! Watch Today's Episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/shRsDVa4Fy0 Or listen to the audio podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/still-growing-in-grace Donate today and help keep this going: In CANADA: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=XHQ9UTBPTKDPW In the USA: https://eschurch.com/donate - check the ‘GROWING IN GRACE' box FOR MORE TOPICS & CONTENT, TUNE IN HERE: Michael Zenker's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MichaelZenker Weekly Blog: https://mikezenker.blog/ Still Growing In Grace YouTube Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHIzcebDIyS8F3nj2MF_FV-H FACEBOOK page: https://www.facebook.com/growingingraceministriescanada Web: Growing In Grace www.growingingrace.ca Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6AvFWO7epyVeIuNf5WHFRD Grace Awakening Network weekly Program 9:30pm EST: https://www.gantv.com/ GAN ‘On Demand': https://watch.gantv.com/categories/102/still-growing-in-grace Guest Info And Links Richard Murray: https://thegoodnessofgod.com/ Parking Lot Theology with Richard Murray: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHKCXZQPsLeEVYe-bt4YN5lj Bill Thrasher: https://www.facebook.com/groups/444411502587439 Fred Young: https://eschurch.com/ Randy Elstrott: https://www.randyelstrott.com/ Mike Zenker: www.hopefellowshipycc.com
Atonement Theories are foundational to any denomination or faith group ‘statements of faith'. MOST believers have no idea what they mean or how they were developed. Most of us were given a very simple description of what they meant and you need to agree and believe it if you want to remain a part of ‘our fellowship'. No room to question anything. Well, here on ‘Still Growing In Grace', we question everything and search for a more ‘hope-filled perspective'. Enjoy this mini series as we explore a better perspective of who God is and how that affects how we love others!! Watch Today's Episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/R-yTK7POHqo Or listen to the audio podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/still-growing-in-grace Donate today and help keep this going: In CANADA: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=XHQ9UTBPTKDPW In the USA: https://eschurch.com/donate - check the ‘GROWING IN GRACE' box FOR MORE TOPICS & CONTENT, TUNE IN HERE: Michael Zenker's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MichaelZenker Weekly Blog: https://mikezenker.blog/ Still Growing In Grace YouTube Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHIzcebDIyS8F3nj2MF_FV-H FACEBOOK page: https://www.facebook.com/growingingraceministriescanada Web: Growing In Grace www.growingingrace.ca Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6AvFWO7epyVeIuNf5WHFRD Grace Awakening Network weekly Program 9:30pm EST: https://www.gantv.com/ GAN ‘On Demand': https://watch.gantv.com/categories/102/still-growing-in-grace Guest Info And Links Richard Murray: https://thegoodnessofgod.com/ Parking Lot Theology with Richard Murray: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHKCXZQPsLeEVYe-bt4YN5lj Bill Thrasher: https://www.facebook.com/groups/444411502587439 Fred Young: https://eschurch.com/ Randy Elstrott: https://www.randyelstrott.com/ Mike Zenker: www.hopefellowshipycc.com
Questions Covered: 01:12 – Did fetal microchimerism have a part to play in Mary's assumption? 06:10 – There is a practice where people fast during lent from one thing (food, vice.) Some people say that when you pray Sunday evening prayer 1 on Saturday, it is now Sunday where you feast and you don't have to fast from your Lenten fast anymore. Is this a sound practice or should one only stop their Lenten fast on Sunday? 09:55 – Is it true that the ends never justify the means? It seems that this belief would prohibit things like war. A popular moral question is; If the nazis asked you where a Jewish family is hiding, isn't it best to lie? How else can you respond? I haven't heard you speak on this and I'm interested in your perspective 13:22 – Why do priests not get to marry? Doesn’t this lead some into sexual sin anyways when they harm children in the worst cases? God gave us a holy marriage between men and women for this purpose. Why? 19:14 – If the West believes in original sin, and the Eastern Orthodox believe in ancestral sin, where does that put Eastern Catholics? I spoke with one Eastern Catholic priest who said they affirm ancestral sin, but I thought in order to be Catholic you had to believe in original sin? 21:08 – Both are good, but is it better to know history or philosophy? Concerning Catholicism or life in general (your opinion). 23:15 – I have a question concerning canon 285.2 of the 1983 Code of Canon Law. It states: “Clerics are to avoid those things which, although not unbecoming, are nevertheless foreign to the clerical state.” Is the law thinking of any special area here? Could you give an example of something that is totally fine to do for a layperson but not for a priest? 31:09 – Do you like tooled leather? 32:12 – Can you explain Vicarious Satisfaction as taught by Aquinas vs. Penal Substitutionary Atonement and is Penal Substitution the foundation for salvation by Faith Alone? 36:52 – Kinda a silly question, but when Moses, Elijah, and other old testament characters “saw God,” did they see Jesus before He was sent from heaven and born unto the world through the Blessed Virgin Mary? Or did they actually see “God the Father?” 40:41 – You have previously critiqued the philosophical version of the Kalam argument because you believe God is capable of actualizing a universe with an infinite past. Let’s take that for granted. It seems to me that an atheist cannot make such an appeal to support the possibility of an infinitely old universe. Therefore, could someone use the philosophical version of the Kalam as a sort of “internal critique” of the atheist worldview. One can say, “What you describe is impossible without divine omnipotence making it happen.” 44:39 – To what extent is the Catholic dogma of the Assumption of Mary a potential stumbling block to reunion with Eastern Orthodox churches? I have heard that they believe something similar, called the Dormition of Mary, but I don’t know if the belief is uniform among all Eastern Orthodox churches, or if it’s exactly the same as the Assumption. 47:59 – Why did God not give us a mortal sin (or Grace) detector so we can know with certitude what we did was deadly or venial or simply a vice? 51:00 – What if a person had no faith all its life, just refused to believe and then gets dementia or alzheimers is there still hope for them to get to heaven 52:32 – Can you please contrast the passage from Luke 1:28 where the Angel Gabriel addresses Mary with the greeting “Hail, full of grace,” with the passage from Acts 6:8 (also authored by Luke) where Stephen is described as “full of grace.” …
Did we make a joke about the reunion tour? Definitely maybe. Steve Chalke is founder of Oasis, a hugely significant charity most famous for its youthwork initiatives and other social impact subbrands. He's also been a controversial figure in the UK Church, ever since, as a Baptist minister, he came out against Penal Substitution as an image of Christ's atonement, and came out in favour of equal marriage for gay couples. In this episode, Malky, Laura and Jonty chat to Steve about Paul and Jesus, the Church's hang-ups about sexuality, honest assessments of the professional youthwork experiment and how he guards against Beloved Founder Syndrome bleeding into problematic areas. We don't agree with Steve on everything, but we hope the tone is of critical friends offering helpful challenge, as we really enjoyed talking to Steve and we love his pastoral vision of an inclusive, loving Church. About Beer Christianity Beer Christianity is an anti-capitalist, pro-BLM, pro-LGBTQ+, anti-imperialist, post-post-post-evangelical podcast where we drink a bit and talk a lot. Our aim is to be real, helpful and entertaining. Beer Christianity also has a newsletter in which Jonty and guest authors comment on the news, theological issues and stuff that matters. He updates it according to his own wildly inconsistent neurodivergent schedule, but it's a good read. Sign up for the Beer Christianity newsletter on Substack. Support Beer Christianity… Putting the show together costs a bunch of money in hosting fees, editing software, equipment and time. If you can, please help out by donating via Buy Me a Coffee (or in our case, a beer) Follow Beer Christianity on Twitter: @beerxianity and find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube and, probably, loads of other places. We love hearing from listeners. You can email us at beerchristianity AT yahoo DOT com. We often respond to mails we get on the show. And if you leave us a voicenote on Insta we might air your question on an episode. There's also a connected Show With Music on Spotify called New Old Music. Check it out if you like eclectic music and random chat. Other things… Malky's design work has graced many good magazines and music videos. You can find his stuff and even commission him if he's not too busy, here. Jonty's novel, Incredulous Moshoeshoe and the Lightning Bird, is not literature but it's quite fun if you like Supernatural, Africa or the Goth scene. Laura doesn't want us to post her BookTok until she's posted more videos. She may have prayed for the app to be banned just to avoid it. Beliefs… We don't really want to preach at you, but some people like to know what we believe. It's this: Jesus Christ is the Son of God and came to teach us a better way to be, while reconciling us to God and each other in a way we could never do without Him. He also changed water into wine. Nice.
Hell is topic that is uncomfortable to discuss as many folks and clergy haven't questioned what it actually is. This mini series on Hell is a gentle and yet deep discussion on most of the tentacles of belief we have attached to the common belief on Hell. We think you will discover a much better understanding of the love of God as each conversation builds on the previous. Let us know if you are enjoying these talks!! Watch Today's Episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/ajd2LjqEs0s Or listen to the audio podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/still-growing-in-grace Donate today and help keep this going: In CANADA: https://www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted_button_id=XHQ9UTBPTKDPW In the USA: https://eschurch.com/donate - check the ‘GROWING IN GRACE' box FOR MORE TOPICS & CONTENT, TUNE IN HERE: Michael Zenker's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/MichaelZenker Weekly Blog: https://mikezenker.blog/ Still Growing In Grace YouTube Playlist: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHIzcebDIyS8F3nj2MF_FV-H FACEBOOK page: https://www.facebook.com/growingingraceministriescanada Web: Growing In Grace www.growingingrace.ca Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6AvFWO7epyVeIuNf5WHFRD Grace Awakening Network weekly Program 9:30pm EST: https://www.gantv.com/ GAN ‘On Demand': https://watch.gantv.com/categories/102/still-growing-in-grace Guest Info And Links Richard Murray: https://thegoodnessofgod.com/ Parking Lot Theology with Richard Murray: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKfv-9uArQHKCXZQPsLeEVYe-bt4YN5lj Bill Thrasher: https://www.facebook.com/groups/444411502587439 Fred Young: https://eschurch.com/ Randy Elstrott: https://www.randyelstrott.com/ Mike Zenker: www.hopefellowshipycc.com
Pastor Mattie teaches on the penal substitutionary model of the atonement and some of its historical criticisms and the good news it presents for all believers.Support the Show.
In this final talk, I summarise five profound ways that the Exodus narrative reframes and stretches the traditional gospel of Penal Substitution. My aim was to leave us with a metaphor that can rival the evocative power of the Penal model not just critique it systematically. In my experience, the Exodus story does this and that is what i want to share in this talk. One thing that the Exodus story does is to stretch out the redemption story across a complex landscape of the battle with Pharoah and Egypt. So it leaves us with an extended metaphor or analogy, not just a single idea. But that is okay and I think it works in our favour, since one of the insights about redemption that we have developed is that ‘salvation' is a vast and multi-faceted act of God in his relation with creation. I organise the analogies using the five dramatic terms of Kenneth Burke, and I think it works well. I created a table to capture the comparisons and I organised the talk using that table. I will post it on the Gospel Conversations website. One of the texts that I allude to is the important book by Richard Gaffin called ‘Redemption and Resurrection'. Look at it as he critiqued traditional redemption models as having limited space for Resurrection. I hope this talk and the whole series have blessed you and keep provoking thought as it has for me.
Wrapping up our series of Controversial Unity, Joshua Noel and TJ (Tiberius Juan) Blackwell reflect on all we have learned in the last 8 weeks! We discuss how our guests answered the questions we offered, what we gained from doing this series, and what we hope our listeners will able to learn with us. We also take some time to look forward and ask whether we would ever do a series like this again!.What are the controversies of Christianity? What are the controversies in the early church? Is the Bible really inerrant? What are the concepts of inerrancy? What makes a book canon in the Bible? When will the millennium of Revelation take place? What other theories of atonement are there? What does Penal Substitution teach? Are churches allowed to be political? What are the 7 sacraments vs 2 sacraments? What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality? What is the difference between Cessationism and Continuationism?.In this episode, we will:Reflect on our "Controversial Unity" seriesDiscuss how our stances were challenged in this seriesExplore how to use conversations like these to deepen our desire for knowledgeExamine our own willingness to be proven wrong.Support the show on Captivate or on Patreon, or by purchasing a comfy T-Shirt in our shop!.Join in our conversations on our Discord Server and Facebook group!.Hear all of the AMP Network shows:https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm.Check out every episode in this series:https://player.captivate.fm/collection/4f2184c4-1b7d-48fc-9c81-15f0a0c2679c.Listen to every episode of Systematic Geekology with TJ:https://player.captivate.fm/collection/f4c32709-d8ff-4cef-8dfd-5775275c3c5e.Check out Joshua's other show, "Dummy for Theology":https://player.captivate.fm/episode/1a27a558-5de8-4f4b-bdd0-7f104805a2efMentioned in this episode:Easily subscribe to our show wherever you listen!https://the-whole-church-podcast.captivate.fm/listenCheck out the other AMP Network shows!https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . https://open.spotify.com/show/725pdvTzkle0fDWK2sdxnD?si=e317918366e04338
Some people object to penal substitution as a model for atonement. Why does God require the death of Jesus? Is that part of a loving or a vengeful God? Dr Diedre Green & Dr Eric Huntsman weigh in on the pros and cons of penal substitution. Check out our conversation... https://youtu.be/FremIKcy8vw Don't miss our other conversations about atonement: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/atonement/ transcript to follow Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved Except for book reviews, no content may be reproduced without written permission transcript to follow Copyright © 2024 Gospel Tangents All Rights Reserved
Penal Substitution Penal substitution is the idea that Jesus bore the penalty for our sins on the cross. He was judged in our place and bore the wrath of God that rightfully belongs to us. The record of Scripture is that “He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed” (Isa 53:5), and “the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him” (Isa 53:6), for “by His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, as He will bear their iniquities” (Isa 53:11), and “the LORD was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; if He would render Himself as a guilt offering” (Isa 53:10a). Jesus is presented in the NT as “the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). We're also told that God “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf” (2 Cor 5:21), and that “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us” (Gal 3:13), and that “He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross” (1 Pet 2:24). In this way, the sins of all humanity were imputed to Christ while He was on the cross, suffering as our substitute. And we must always remember that the sacrifice of Christ was purely voluntary, as He said, “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep” (John 10:11), and “No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative” (John 10:18). And Jesus has “been offered once to bear the sins of many” (Heb 9:28), and “Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust” (1 Pet 3:18). Louis Berkhof states, “The Bible certainly teaches that the sufferings and death of Christ were vicarious, and vicarious in the strict sense of the word that He took the place of sinners, and that their guilt was imputed, and their punishment transferred, to Him.”[1] And Charles Ryrie adds, “Only the substitutionary death of Christ can provide that which God's justice demands and thereby become the basis for the gift of eternal life to those who believe.”[2] And according to Lewis Chafer, “The doctrine of satisfaction embodies the conception of Christ's death, that it was a penal substitution which had the objective purpose of providing a just and righteous ground for God to remit the sins of those for whom Christ died.”[3] John Walvoord agrees, saying: "This point of view, variously described as vicarious or penal, holds that the atonement is objectively directed toward God and the satisfaction of His holy character and demands upon the sinner. It is vicarious in the sense that Christ is the Substitute who bears the punishment rightly due sinners, their guilt being imputed to Him in such a way that He representatively bore their punishment. This is in keeping with the general idea of sacrifices in the Old Testament and is explicitly taught in the New Testament (see John 1:29; 2 Cor 5:21; Gal 3:13; Heb 9:28; 1 Pet 2:24)."[4] Robert B. Thieme, Jr. states: "The punishment incurred by Adam when he sinned—spiritual death—is passed down to the entire human race. Everyone is born under this penalty of sin, hopelessly in debt to God. The debt has been paid by the perfect humanity of Christ, whose substitutionary spiritual death on the cross “canceled out the certificate of debt” (Col 2:14). Man now stands free to accept Jesus Christ and receive the gift of an eternal relationship with God."[5] What's unique about Jesus is that He is both our High Priest as well as the sacrifice for our sins. In the OT, priests would offer animals to die as the sacrifice, but Jesus offered “Himself as a guilt offering” (Isa 53:10) in order to take away sins. The writer to the Hebrews states, “Christ appeared as a high priest” (Heb 9:11), and this in order “to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” (Heb 9:26), and this was a once-for-all sacrifice, as He “offered one sacrifice for sins for all time” (Heb 10:12). Sin is the breaking of God's law, for “Everyone who commits sin also breaks the law; sin is the breaking of law” (1 John 3:4 CSB). The penalty for breaking God's law is death, for “the wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23). Jesus took our sins upon Himself and “bore our sins in His body on the cross” (1 Pet 2:24), and He “died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God” (1 Pet 3:18). And He died for the sins of everyone, for “He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). Though Christ died for everyone, the benefits of the cross are applied only to those who believe, and “everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins” (Acts 10:43; Eph 1:7). Additionally, we receive “the gift of righteousness” (Rom 5:17), and “eternal life” (John 10:28). At the moment of faith in Christ, we are “justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24). Propitiation Jesus' death on the cross was a satisfactory sacrifice to God which completely paid the price for our sin. We owed a debt to God that we could never pay, and Jesus paid that debt in full when He died on the cross and bore the punishment that rightfully belonged to us. In Romans, Paul states that we “are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith (Rom 3:24-25a ESV). Here, Paul used the Greek word hilasterion (ἱλαστήριον)—translated propitiation—to show that Jesus' shed blood completely satisfied God's righteous demands toward our sin, with the result that there is nothing more for the sinner to pay to God. Jesus paid our sin-debt in full. The Apostle John tells us “He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world” (1 John 2:2; cf., 4:10). Jesus' death on the cross forever satisfied God's righteous demands toward the sins of everyone for all time! God has “canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Col 2:14). Regarding Christ's death, J. Dwight Pentecost states: "You can be adjusted to God's standard, because God made Christ to become sin for us. The One who knew no sin, the One in whose lips had never been found guile, took upon Himself our sin in order that He might bear our sins to the cross and offer Himself as an acceptable substitute to God for us—on our behalf, in our place. And when Jesus Christ identified Himself with sinners and went to the cross on their behalf and in their place, He was making possible the doctrine of reconciliation. He was making it possible for God to conform the world to Himself, to adjust the world to His standard so that sinners in the world might find salvation because “Jesus paid it all.” You can be adjusted to God, to God's standard, through Christ, by His death, by His cross, by His blood, and by His identification with sinners."[6] John Walvoord adds: "The work of Christ in salvation has still another major aspect of what is called in the Bible “propitiation,” “the sacrifice of atonement,” or satisfying God's righteous demands or judgment upon a sinner. Illustrations of this can be found in Romans 3:25 and 1 John 2:2; 4:10. The idea of propitiation is that God as a righteous God must demand punishment for those who sin against Him. Christ in His death on the cross provided propitiation, atonement, or satisfaction of that claim, so that God is fully satisfied now in saving a person who does not deserve to be saved."[7] Robert Lightner states: "The death of Christ satisfied the righteous demands of God the Father. Because of sin His holiness had been offended, and only a sinless sacrifice could meet His righteous demands. Jesus Christ the Righteous One provided in Himself the perfect sacrifice. Paul set forth Christ as the propitiation for the remission of sins (Rom 3:25). Because of the blood He shed Christ provided in Himself the appointed place where a holy God could meet sinful man. Christ is now our place of meeting—our mercy seat (cf. 1 John 2:2; 4:10). The need for propitiation stems from the sin of man and the holiness of God. It is man who needs to be reinstated or reconciled with God. God's holiness and righteous demands remain unchanged. Since there must be a basis upon which God may receive sinners, satisfaction must be made for sin: propitiation provided just such a basis through the death of Christ."[8] Paul Enns states: "Propitiation means that the death of Christ fully satisfied all the righteous demands of God toward the sinner. Because God is holy and righteous He cannot overlook sin; through the work of Jesus Christ God is fully satisfied that His righteous standard has been met. Through union with Christ the believer can now be accepted by God and be spared from the wrath of God."[9] There are several concepts at work in the doctrine of propitiation. First, God is holy which means He is completely set apart from sin and cannot look on wickedness with favor. The Scripture states, “Your eyes are too pure to approve evil, and You cannot look on wickedness with favor” (Hab 1:13), and “This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all” (1 John 1:5). Because all mankind is marked by sin, we are all in danger of the fires of hell, unless we turn to Christ as our Savior. Second, God made a way for His righteousness to be satisfied, and this through the cross of Christ. As Christians, we “are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith” (Rom 3:24-25a ESV). And John tells us “He Himself is the propitiation for our sins” (1 John 2:2a; cf., 4:10). God is forever satisfied with the death of Christ. Third, the wrath of God is removed because Jesus was judged in our place and bore the punishment that rightfully belongs to us. Paul wrote, “God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him” (Rom 5:8-9). Dr. Steven R. Cook ___ [1] Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology, 376. [2] Charles Caldwell Ryrie, Basic Theology, 357. [3] Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, vol. 3, 143. [4] John F. Walvoord, Jesus Christ Our Lord, 157. [5] Robert B. Thieme, Jr. “Barrier”, Thieme's Bible Doctrine Dictionary, 22. [6] J. Dwight Pentecost, Things Which Become Sound Doctrine, 89. [7] John F. Walvoord, What We Believe (Galaxie Software, 2007), 76. [8] Robert P. Lightner, Handbook of Evangelical Theology, 195. [9] Paul P. Enns, The Moody Handbook of Theology, 325.
We are starting a whole new series! Joshua Noel and TJ (Tiberius Juan) Blackwell discuss their upcoming series, their own stances on the coming topics, and explain why we are taking the time to get further into controversy! We will be discussing Biblical Inerrancy, the Biblical Canon, Eschatology, Atonement Theories, Sacraments, LGBTQ+ issues, Politics form the Pulpit, and Spiritual Gifts!.What are the controversies of Christianity? What are the controversies in the early church? Is the Bible really inerrant? What are the concepts of inerrancy? What makes a book canon in the Bible? When will the millennium of Revelation take place? What other theories of atonement are there? What does Penal Substitution teach? Are churches allowed to be political? What are the 7 sacraments vs 2 sacraments? What Does the Bible Say About Homosexuality? What is the difference between Cessationism and Continuationism?.In this episode, we will:Prepare for our upcoming seriesDiscuss our stances on various debated topics in the ChurchExplore how to maintain unity when we can disagree on such crucial mattersExamine our own willingness to be proven wrong.Support the show on Captivate or on Patreon, or by purchasing a comfy T-Shirt in our shop!.Join in our conversations on our Discord Server and Facebook group!.Hear all of the AMP Network shows:https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm.Listen to every episode of Systematic Geekology with TJ:https://player.captivate.fm/collection/f4c32709-d8ff-4cef-8dfd-5775275c3c5e.Check out Joshua's other show, "Dummy for Theology":https://player.captivate.fm/episode/1a27a558-5de8-4f4b-bdd0-7f104805a2efMentioned in this episode:Easily subscribe to our show wherever you listen!https://the-whole-church-podcast.captivate.fm/listenCheck out the other AMP Network shows!https://anazao-ministries.captivate.fm . https://open.spotify.com/show/725pdvTzkle0fDWK2sdxnD?si=e317918366e04338
In our last talk Andrew took us deeper into various metaphors for atonement – and asked which best fits scripture and gospel. In this talk, Tony supplements that deep dive by zooming back out and asking, ‘what is the real question, for which the cross and salvation is the answer?' He concludes that Penal Substitution is the answer to the wrong question and explains why. He then refines the better question – a question for which adoption is a better answer.
Matthew chapter 5 depicts Jesus' accomplishment or fulfillment of the law as a direct reference to his person, his teaching, and his kingdom which the Mosaic law only pointed toward. Jesus ushers in a righteousness that abrogates and contradicts the law, such that one cannot "keep" the law and be a follower of Jesus. One cannot hate the enemy, a requirement of the law, and follow Jesus. Become a Patron! If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider donating to support our work.
Today I will discuss some of the recent texts I've been reading and how they are crucial to the Protestant / Catholic issue. Papadakis, Louth and Siecienski texts are a helpful addendum to the history of Byzantium and the later issues of the papacy and the rise of Protestantism. Questioners can have the floor for as long as they like.
Defenders: Doctrine of Christ (Part 17): The Work of Christ (10) - Penal Substitution Theory
Tony and Zane discuss the follies of the Penal Substitution theology which is the most widely taught version of the Crucifixtion that is taught. Then they discuss the Garden Perspective, which brings forth what really happened at the Cross. Podcast YouTube Channel Website
If Jesus died to pay for our sins, does the resurrection even matter? It certainly does! When Jesus walked out of the grave, he authoritatively declared that sin's penalty had been paid in full so that we might say with confidence, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” Timestamps to Know Intro: 00:44 Lee Tankersley – 03:06 Why Pursue a PhD? - 04:12 What Trends are Being Seen with the Academy and the Local Church? - 07:33 How has the Gospel been Truncated by Not Talking about Penal Substitution? – 10:59 Where does Penal Substitution stand in Evangelicalism Today? – 15:26 Christ as Our Representative Substitute – 20:31 Representation and Substitution - 24:10 Is God For us or Against Us? - 26:39 The Need for a Legal and Penal Substitute – 31:06 We Need the Old Testament to See What is Taking Place in the Resurrection? - 35:12 The Logic of Romans 5: Adam & Christ – 38:32 What Does It Mean to be Vindicated by the Spirit? - 43:43 Outro – 46:26 Resources to Click Does Penal Substitution Require the Resurrection? – Lee Tankersley What Did the Cross Achieve?: The Logic of Penal Substitution – J.I. Packer Books to Read Pierced for our Transgressions: Rediscovering the Glory of Penal Substitution – Steve Jeffery, Michael Ovey, and Andrew Sach Christ Crucified: Understanding the Atonement - Donald MacLeod The Cross of Christ – John Stott The Cross and Salvation: The Doctrince of Salvation – Bruce DeMarest Pauline Eschatology – Geerhardus Vos
If Jesus died to pay for our sins, does the resurrection even matter? It certainly does! When Jesus walked out of the grave, he authoritatively declared that sin's penalty had been paid in full so that we might say with confidence, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”
Christians believe that Jesus' death on the cross provided the atonement for sins. But in what way? Advocates of the penal substitution view hold that God punished the Son, instead of us. Others argue this is an unjust way of viewing the crucifixion and prefer the 'Christus Victor' view, that Jesus defeats the powers of evil on the cross. In this classic replay, Steve Jeffery defended Penal Substitution, while Alan Molineaux questioned it. We also had contributions from American theologian & church leader Greg Boyd in defense of Christus Victor and UK leader Dave Bish in defense of Penal Substitutionary Atonement. First broadcast in 2013 Support our End Of Year Appeal: https://gtly.to/aAxRk0kQs • Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast: https://pod.link/267142101 • More shows, free eBook & newsletter: https://premierunbelievable.com • For live events: http://www.unbelievable.live • For online learning: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/training • Support us in the USA: http://www.premierinsight.org/unbelievableshow • Support us in the rest of the world: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/donate
Tom Wright talks about his book The Day The Revolution Began and answers listener Qs on Penal Substitution, the Old Testament sacrificial system, Christ's ‘descent to the dead', and an atheist's claim that Christ's death was ‘just a bad weekend at human camp'. First broadcast in 2018. • Subscribe to the Ask NT Wright Anything podcast: https://pod.link/1441656192 • More shows, free eBook, newsletter, and sign up to ask Tom your questions: https://premierunbelievable.com • For live events: http://www.unbelievable.live • For online learning: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/training-and-events • Support us in the USA: http://www.premierinsight.org/unbelievableshow • Support us in the rest of the world: https://www.premierunbelievable.com/donate
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