Podcasts about assurance of salvation

Doubt can rob you of joy and confidence in your walk with God. In this Friday morning session, Pastor Dean Miller opens 1 John to show how you can have unshakable assurance of salvation. Learn how the finished work of Christ, the witness of the Spirit, and the truth of Scripture give you certainty that you belong to Him.This is the tenth sermon in a special series that will contain all of the sermons and workshops delivered at the 2025 Thee Generation Youth Summit at Falls Baptist Church in Menomonee Falls, WI this past October 8–10, 2025.Don't forget to make plans to join hundreds of other young people next October 14–16, 2026 for our annual meeting in Menomonee Falls, WI. For more information, please visit theegeneration.org/tgys. If you've been encouraged by this podcast, please take the time to give us a five-star rating and write a brief review. That would help tremendously in getting the word out and raising the visibility of the Thee Generation for others. For more faith inspiring resources and information about joining Thee Generation, please visit theegeneration.org.

What is the bottom-line, existential, frightening, glorious question of Romans 8? Pastor John draws out two signs that a professing Christian is secure in Christ.

In this profound episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb delve deeply into the Parable of the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30), exploring its implications for Christian assurance. Building on their previous discussion, they examine how this parable speaks to the mixed nature of the visible church, the sovereignty of Christ over His kingdom, and most significantly, the doctrine of assurance. Through careful theological reflection, the hosts unpack how true believers can find solid ground for assurance not in their own works or fruit-checking, but in the promises of Christ and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. This episode offers both encouragement for those struggling with doubts and a sobering challenge to those resting in false assurance. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Tares teaches that the visible church will be mixed until the final judgment, containing both true believers (wheat) and false professors (tares) who may appear outwardly similar. True assurance is not based primarily on good works but on the promises of Christ, the inward testimony of the Holy Spirit, and the evidences of grace in our lives. False assurance is a real danger, as many who think they belong to Christ will discover at the final judgment that they never truly knew Him. The Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18) provides a helpful framework for understanding biblical assurance as the proper possession of every Christian. Christ's role as the divine Master of the house (the world) and Lord of the angels is subtly yet powerfully affirmed in this parable, grounding our assurance in His sovereignty. Good works are the fruit of assurance, not its cause—when we are secure in our salvation, we are freed to serve Christ joyfully rather than anxiously trying to earn assurance. The final judgment will bring perfect clarity, revealing what was hidden and separating the wheat from the tares with divine precision that humans cannot achieve now. The Doctrine of Assurance: Reformed Understanding The Reformed tradition has always emphasized that believers can and should have assurance of their salvation—a conviction recovered during the Reformation in contrast to Rome's teaching. As Tony noted when reading from the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18), this assurance is "not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation." This assurance rests on three pillars: the promises of God in Scripture, the inward evidence of grace, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit. What makes this understanding particularly comforting is that it shifts the foundation of assurance away from our performance to God's faithfulness. While self-examination has its place, the Reformed understanding recognizes that looking too intensely at our own hearts and works can lead either to despair or to false confidence. Instead, we're directed to look primarily to Christ and His finished work, finding in Him the anchor for our souls. The Problem of False Assurance One of the most sobering aspects of the Parable of the Tares is its implicit warning about false assurance. Just as the tares resemble wheat until maturity reveals their true nature, many professing Christians may outwardly appear to belong to Christ while inwardly remaining unregenerate. As Jesse observed, "The tares typically live under false assurance. They may attend church, confess belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical, it's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual." This echoes Jesus' warning in Matthew 7 that many will say to Him, "Lord, Lord," but will hear the devastating response, "I never knew you." The parable teaches us that this self-deception is not always conscious hypocrisy but often the result of spiritual blindness. As Jesse noted, referencing Romans 1, Ephesians 4, and 1 Corinthians 2, the unregenerate are "not merely ignorant, they're blinded... to the spiritual truth by nature and by Satan." This understanding should prompt humble self-examination while simultaneously driving us to depend not on our own discernment but on Christ's perfect knowledge and saving work. Memorable Quotes "Assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions." - Thomas Brooks, quoted by Jesse Schwamb "When we are confessing, repenting, seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ, then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance." - Jesse Schwamb "The sacrifice and the service that a husband performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him, that is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it." - Tony Arsenal on how good works flow from assurance rather than cause it Resources Mentioned Scripture: Matthew 13:24-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 1, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 2, 2 Timothy 3:5 Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 18 "Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation" Thomas Brooks: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices" YouTube Channel: My Wild Backyard Khan Academy: Educational resource recommended during "Affirmations and Denials" segment Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 466 of the Reform the Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. We're going back to the farm again. Can't stop. Won't stop. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. [00:01:02] Discussion on the Parable of the Tears Tony Arsenal: The last week's discussion was interesting and I think, um, it's gonna be nice to sort of round it out and talk about some things you might not think about, uh, when you first read this parable. So I'm, I'm pretty excited. Jesse Schwamb: Oh, what a tease that is. So if you're wondering what Tony's talking about, we're hanging out. In Matthew 13, we are just really enjoying these teachings of Jesus. And they are shocking and they're challenging, and they're encouraging, and they're awesome, of course. And so we're gonna be finishing out the Parable of the Tears and you need to go back and listen to the previous conversation. This, this is all set up because we have some unfinished business. We didn't talk about the eschatological implications. We have this really big this, this matza ball hanging over us. So to speak, which was the, do the TAs in this parable even know that they are tarry, that they are the TAs? And so in this parable, the disciples learn that the kingdom itself, God's kingdom, the kingdom that Jesus is enumerating and explaining and bringing into being, they are learning that it's gonna be mixed in character. So that's correcting this expectation that the kingdom would be perfectly pure and would have, would evolve righteous rule over all of the unrighteous world. And so it's a little bit shocking that Jesus says, listen, they're gonna be. Tears within the wheats that is in the world, the seed that God himself, the sun has planted and that they're gonna exist side by side for a long time. And so we, they have to wait patiently and give ourselves to building up the wheats as the sons of the kingdom and be careful in their judgment, not to harm those who are believers. We covered a lot of that last week, but left so much unsaid we couldn't even fit it in. This is gonna be jam packed, so I'm gonna stop giving the tees instead start moving us into affirmations and denials. [00:02:45] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: It's of course that time in our conversation where we either affirm with something really like or we think is undervalued or we deny against something that we don't really like or is a little overvalued. So as I usually say to you, Tony, what have you got for us? [00:03:00] YouTube Channel Recommendation: My Wild Backyard Tony Arsenal: I am affirming a YouTube channel. Um, I, I think the algorithm goes through these cycles where it wants me to learn about bugs and things because I get Okay, like videos about bugs. And so I'm, I'm interested. There's been this, uh, channel that's been coming up on my algorithm lately called My Wild Backyard, and it, it's a guy, he's like an entomologist. He seems like a, a like a legit academic, but what he does is he basically goes through and he talks about different bugs, creepy crawlies, looks at like snakes, all that kinds of stuff. It seems like his wheelhouse is the stuff that can kill you or hurt you pretty bad. Nice. But, um, it's interesting and it's. It's good educational content. It's, you know, it's not sensationalized, it's not, uh, it's not dramatized. Um, it's very real. There's occasionally an instance where he, he's not, sometimes he will intentionally get bit or stung by an, uh, by an animal to show you what it does. So he can experience and explain what he's experiencing. And sometimes he just accidentally gets bit or stung. And so those are some of the most interesting ones. So like, for example, just looking at his, his channel, his most recent, um, his most recent video is called The most venomous Desert Creatures in the US ranked the one previous was. The world's most terrifying arachni isn't a spider. And then previous to that was what happens if a giant centipede bites you? So it's interesting stuff. If you are one of those people that likes bugs and likes creepy crawlies and things, um, this is definitely the channel for you if you're not one of those people. I actually think this probably is the channel for you too. 'cause it kind of demystifies a lot of this stuff. Um. You know, for example, he, he will commonly point out that, um, spiders don't wanna bite you and they just wanna leave you alone. And, and as long as you leave them alone, even, even something like a black widow, which people are terrified of, and I think, right, rightfully so. I mean, they can be scary. Those can be scary bites. He'll, he'll handle those, no problem. And as long as he's not like putting downward pressure on them, uh, they have no interest in biting, they really just want to get away. So even seeing that kind of stuff, I think can help demystify and, and sort of, uh, make it a little bit easier. So my Wild Backyard, he can find it on YouTube. Um, he's safe for kids. He's not, he's not cussing even. I mean, I think occasionally when he gets bit on accident, you might, you know, you might have a beep here or there, but, um, he's not, he's not regularly swearing or things like that. And he does a pretty good job of adding that stuff out. Jesse Schwamb: What a great title for that, isn't it? This, yeah. Confluence of your backyard. That space that seems domesticated is also stealing its own. Right. Wild. And there's a be Yeah. Both those things coming together. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's interesting stuff and it's really good. I mean, it's really compelling videography. He does a good job of taking good photos. You'll see insects that you usually won't see, or spiders you usually won't see. Um, so yeah, it's cool. Check it out. [00:05:51] Discussion on Spiders and Creepy Crawlies Jesse Schwamb: What are you, uh, yeah, I myself would like to become more comfortable with the arachni variety. If only be, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's a weird creature, so my instinct is to be like, kill them all. And then if I can't find them and I know they're around, then we just burn everything that we own. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: They just can't sink into the ground fast enough. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. There's something about the way they move, like their, their bodies don't move the way you would anticipate them to. Right. And it freaks, it just weirds out human sensibilities, so. Right. Jesse Schwamb: They're also like, I find them to be very surprising. Often. It's not kind of a, a very like, kind of measured welcome into your life. It's like you just go to get in the shower and there's a giant spider. Yeah. Oh yeah. Although I guess that spider, he's, he or she's probably like, whoa, where'd you come from? You know, like, yeah. He's like, I was just taking a Tony Arsenal: shower. You know what's interesting? Um, I saw another video was on a different channel, um, like common jumping spiders. Yeah. Which there are like hundreds of species of common jumping spiders. Jesse Schwamb: True. Tony Arsenal: Um, but spiders and jumping spiders specifically, actually you can form almost like a pet bond with, so like the, that jumping spider that like lives in your house and sees you every day. He, he probably knows who you are and is like, comfortable with you. And they've done studies that like you can actually domesticate jumping spiders, so they're not as foreign and alien as you might think. Although they certainly do look a little bit strange and weird. And the way their bodies move is almost designed to weird out people like it just the skinness, like the way their legs skitter and move it, it just is, it's, it triggers something very primal in us to That's wild. Be weirded out by it. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's wild. I love it. That's a good, a affirmation. I'm definitely gonna check that out. I, any, anything? I really want to know what the, what like the terrifying arachni is. That's not a spider. Tony Arsenal: It's a, well, it's called a camel spider, but it's not really a spider. Oh, Jesse Schwamb: I know what you're talking about. That is kind of terrifying. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. They, they actually don't have any venom. Um, yeah. Check out the video. I mean, it, it was a good video. Um, but yeah, they're freaky looking and, um, but even that, like he was handling it No problem. Yeah. Like it wasn't, it wasn't aggressive with him once Wow. Once it figured out it wasn't, he wasn't trying to hurt him and, and that it couldn't eat him. Um, it, it just sort of like hung out until he let it go. So Jesse Schwamb: yeah, just be careful if you watch it one before bed or while in bed. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Probably not right before bed. Yeah. You'll, you'll get the creepy crawlies all night. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. But there's something somewhat. Like invigorating about that isn't there? Like it's, it's kind of a natural, just like kind of holy respect for the world that God has created, that they're these features that are so different, so wild, so interesting and a little bit frightening, but in the sense that we just draw off from them because they're so different than what we are. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And you know, again, there's places you would be happy to see them, but maybe your bathtub or like shooting out, like, you know, like where you live, the jumping spiders are legit and they will just pop out on you, you know? Yeah. You're just doing your own thing and then all of a sudden they're popping out. I think part of that is just that what, what gets me is like them just, you know, like I remember in my basement here, once one popped out from a rafter and then I was holding, happened to be holding up broom. My instinct just naturally was to hit it. I hit it with the broom and it went across the room and fell on an empty box and sounded like a silver dollar had hit the box. Like it was just a massive, I mean, again, like, it's like fish stories, like it's a massive spider. It was a big spider. Yeah. But you just don't expect to, to see that kind of thing. Or maybe, maybe I should, but anything that moves in that way, and again, like centipedes, man, forget it. We have those too, like in our basement. Like the long ones. Oh yeah. Yeah. That thing will come like squiggling down the wall at you, like eye level and you just wanna run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, you do run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. It's not that you want to, it's that usually you do. I don't mean like you specifically, although probably you specifically. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's, yeah, you just react. Well, j Jesse enough freaking out. I mean, we're getting close to Halloween, so I suppose it's appropriate, but, uh, enough of that. What are you affirming or denying today? Jesse Schwamb: Once again, without like any coordination, mine is not unlike yours. I know you and I, we talk about the world in which we live, which God has created, and this lovely command, this ammunition to take dominion over that. And one of the things I appreciate about our conversations is I think you and I often have maybe not like a novel. Kinda perspective on that, but one that I don't hear talked about often and that is this idea of taking dominion over what it is possible to know and to appropriate, and then to apply onto wisdom. [00:10:27] Affirmation: Khan Academy Jesse Schwamb: And so my information is in that realm. It's another form of taking ownership of what's in the wild of knowledge that you can possess. And again, equal parts. What an amazing time to be alive. So I'm affirming with the website, Khan Academy, which I'm sure many are familiar with. And this website offers like. Thousands of hours. Uh, and materials of free instructional videos, practice exercises, quizzes, all these like really bespoke, personalized learning modules you can create for topics like math, science, computing, economics, history, art. I think it goes like even starting at like. Elementary age all the way up into like early college can help you study for things like the SAT, the LSAT AP courses, and I was revisiting it. I have an open account with them that I keep in love and I go back to it from time to time. And I was working on some stuff where I wanted to rehearse some knowledge in like the calculus space, do some things by hand, which I haven't done. And I was just like, I'm blown away at how good this stuff is. And it's all for free. I mean, you should donate if you. You get something from this because it's a nonprofit, but the fact that there are these amazing instructional videos out there that can help us get a better understanding of either things we already know and we can rehearse the knowledge or to learn something brand new essentially for free. But somebody's done all the hard work to curate a pedagogy for you. Honestly, this is incredible. So if you haven't looked at that website in a long time or maybe ever, and you might be thinking, what, what do I really wanna learn? Lemme tell you. There's a lot of interesting stuff there and it's so approachable and it's such a good website for teaching. And if you have children in particular, even if you're looking for help, either helping them with their own coursework or maybe to have like kind of a tutor on the side, this is so good. So I can't say enough good things recently about Khan Academy 'cause it's been so helpful to me and super fun to like just sit and have your own paced study and in the private and comfort of your own home or your desk at work or wherever it is that you need to learn it. To be able to have somebody teach you some things, to do a little practice exercises, and then to go on to the world and to apply the things you've learned. Ah, it's so good. Tony Arsenal: Nice. Yeah, I've, I've never done anything with Khan Academy. I'll have to check it out. There's, um, there's some skills of needing to brush up on, uh, at work that I am probably not gonna be able to find in my normal channels, so I'll have to see if there is anything going on there. Um, but yeah, that's, that's good stuff. And it's free. Love freestyle. It's, and of course, like Jesse Schwamb: things like this are legion. So whatever it is, whatever your discipline or your field of study or work is, there's probably something out there and, uh, might, I humbly maybe encourage you to, if you use something like that and it's funded by donations, it's worth giving, I think, because again, it's just an amazing opportunity to take dominion over the knowledge that God has placed into the world and then to use it for something. I mean, I suppose even if all it is is you just wanna learn more about, like for me, I, I find like the subjects of, of math and science, like just endlessly fascinating and like the computing section I was looking at, I, I don't know much about like programming per se, but there is such a beauty. Like these underlying principles, like the, the organization of the world and the first level principles of like physics for instance, are just like baffling in the most glorious kind of way. How they all come together. So having somebody like teach you at a very like simplistic level, but allow you to grasp those concepts makes you just appreciate it leads me to doxology a lot when I see these things. So in a weird way, it ends up becoming maybe not a weird way and the right way. It becomes worship as often as I'm sitting at my desk and working through like a practice problem on like, you know, partial differential equation or, or derivatives is what I was working on today. And ah, it's just so good. I don't know, maybe I'm the only one. I, it's not be super nerdy, but you, are you ever like at your desk studying something? And it might not be like theological per se, but you just have a moment where you're overcome with some kind of worship. Do you know what I'm talking about? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, um, this we're the nerdiest people on the planet, but let's Jesse Schwamb: do it. Um, Tony Arsenal: when I find a really fun, interesting. Uh, Excel formula and I can get it to work right. Uh, and it, and then it just like everything unlocks. Like, I feel like I've unlocked all the knowledge in the universe. Um, but yeah, I hear you like the, the Excel thing is, is interesting to me because, like, math is just the description. Like it's just the fabric of reality is just the way we describe reality. But the fact that we can do basically just take math and do all these amazing things with it, uh, in a spreadsheet is really, uh, drives me to praise. Like I said, that's super nerdy, but it is. Oh, you're speaking my language. Jesse Schwamb: I, we have never understood each other better than just this moment right now. We, we had some real talk and, uh, a real moment. Tony Arsenal: Yes. Welcome to the Reformed math cast. Jesse Schwamb: We're so glad that you're here. Tony Arsenal: Yes. We're not gonna do any one plus one plus one equals one kinds of heretical math in, up in here. Jesse Schwamb: No. Tony Arsenal: Well, Jesse, I have a feeling that, excuse me. Wow. Jesse Schwamb: We don't edit anything out. Listen, I'm choked up too. It's it, listen, love ones just so emotional. The moment Tony and I are having it. We're gonna try our best right now to pivot to go into this text, but it's, it's tough because we were just really having something, something special. You got, you got to see there. But thank you for trying to Tony Arsenal: cover for me for that big cough. Jesse Schwamb: This is like presuppositional editing. You know, we don't actually do anything in post. It's not ex anti editing. It's, it's literally presuppositional. [00:15:52] Theological Discussion on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: But to that end, we are in Matthew 13. This is the main course. This is the reason why we're here. There's lots of reasons to worship, and one of them is to come before and admire and love our God who has given us his specific revelation and this incredible teaching of his son. And that's why we're hanging out in Matthew 13. So let me read, because we have just a couple of really sentences here, this really short parable and that way it'll catch us up and then we can just launch right back into we're, we're basically like, we're already in the rocket. Like we're in the stratosphere. We're, we're taking it all the way now. So this is Matthew chapter 13. Come hang out here. It's in the 24th verse. And this is what we find written for us. This is the word of the Lord. He put another parable before them saying. The Kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the weeds and went away. So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, then, do you want us to go and gather them? But he said, no less than gathering the weeds, you root up the weed along with them. Let both grow until the harvest. And at harvest time, I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but to gather the wheat into my barn. Tony Arsenal: That's good stuff. That's good stuff. Um, you know, we, we covered most of. I don't know, what do you wanna call it? The first order reading of the parable last week. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: On one level, the parable, uh, as Christ explains it, uh, a little bit down further in the chapter is extremely straightforward. It's almost out, it's almost an allegory. Each, each element of the parable has a, a, a figure that it's representing. And the main purpose of the story is that the world and specifically the church, um, is going to be a mixed body until the last days, until the end of time. And so there's, there's the Sons of God or the Sons of the Kingdom, uh, and then there's the sons of the evil one. And we talked a lot about how. These two figures in the parable, the, the, the weeds or the tears? Um, tears is a better word because it's a specific kind of, uh, specific kind of weed that looks very much like wheat at its immature stages. Right. And you can't actually discern the difference readily, uh, until the weed and the wheat has grown up next to each other. Um, and so, so part of the parable is that. The, the sons of the kingdom and the sons of the enemy, or the sons of the evil one, they don't look all that different in their early stages. And it's not until the sort of end culmination of their lives and the end culmination of things that they're able to be discerned and then therefore, um, the, the sons of the devil are, are reaped and they go off to their eternal judgment and the sons of the kingdom are, uh, are harvested and they go off to their eternal reward. What we wanted to talk about, and part of the reason that we split this into two episodes. Is that we sort of found ourselves spiraling or spiraling around a question about, uh, sort of about assurance, right? And false assurance, true assurance. And there is an eschatological element to this parable that I, I think we probably should at least touch on as we we go through it. Um, but I wanted to just read, um, it's been a little while since we've read the Westminster Confession on the show. So I wanted to read a little bit from the Westminster Confession. Um, this is from chapter 18, which is called of assurance of grace and salvation. This is sort of the answer to Jesse's question. Do the, do the tears know their tears or, or could they possibly think that their wheat? So this is, uh, section one of chapter eight. It says, although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presuppositions or presumptions of being in favor with God in the state of salvation. Which hope of their shall perish yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. And so we, in the reform tradition at least, which is where we find ourselves in the reform tradition, um, we would affirm that people can. Deceive themselves into believing that they're in proper relation with God. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Tony Arsenal: And so it's not the case that, uh, that the weeds always know they're weeds or think they're weeds. It's not even the case. And this was part of the parable. It's not even the case that the weeds can be easily distinguished even by themselves from, uh, from the weeds. So there is this call, uh, and this is a biblical call. There's a call to seek out assurance and to lay claim to it. That I think is, is worth talking about. But it's not as straightforward as simple proposition as like, yeah, I'm confident. Like it's not just like, right, it's not just mustering up confidence. There's more to it than that. So that's what I wanted to start with, with this parable is just maybe talking through that assurance. 'cause I, I would hate for us to go through this parable. And sort of leave people with maybe you're a weed and you don't know it. 'cause that's not right. That's not the biblical picture of assurance. Um, that's the, that's the Roman Catholic picture of assurance that like, yeah, there's no such thing as assurance and people might not realize, but assurance of salvation is actually one of the, one of the primary things that was recovered particularly by the Reformed in the Reformation. Um, and so I think we, we often sort of overlook it as maybe a secondary thing. Um, but it really is a significant doctrine, a significant feature of reformed theology. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I'm glad you said that because it is a, is a clear reminder. It's a clearing call as the performers put forth that it is. Under like the purview of the Christian to be able to claim the assurance by the blood of Christ in the application of the Holy Spirit in a way that's like fully orbed and fully stopped. So you can contrast that with, and really what was coming outta Catholicism or Rome at the time. And I was just speaking with a dear brother this past week who. Grew up in the Catholic church and he was recounting how his entire religious experience, even his entire relationship, if we can call it that in a kind of colloquial sense with God, was built around this sense of deep-seated guilt and lack of true performance, such that like assurance always seemed like this really vague concept that was never really fully manifested in anything that he did. Even while the church was saying, if you do these things, if you perform this way, if you ensure that you're taking care of your immortal sins and that you're seeking confession for all the venial stuff as well, that somehow you'll be made right, or sufficiently right. But if not, don't worry about it. There's always purgatory, but there'd be some earning that you'd have to accomplish there. Everywhere along the way. He just felt beaten down. So contrasting that with what we have here. I don't believe, as you're saying, Tony, that's Jesus' intention here to somehow beat up the sheep. I, I think it is, to correct something of what's being said about the world in which we live, but it's at the same time to say that there are some that are the TAs is to say there are some that are the children of God, right? That there are some that are fully crisply, clearly identified and securely resting in that identity without any kind of nervous or anxious energy that it might fall out of that state with God that, that in fact their identity is secure. And as I've been thinking about this this week, I, I'm totally with you because I think part of this just falls, the warning here is there's a little bit of the adventures in Romans one here that's waiting for us, that I like what you said about this idea of, of self deception and maybe like a. Subpart to this question would be, are the, are the terrors always nefarious in their lack of understanding? So we might say there's some that are purposely disruptive, that the enemy himself is, is promulgating or trying to bring forward his destruction, his chaos by way of these tears. But are, are there even a subgroup or another group, uh, co-terminus group or, you know, one in the same hierarchy where there's just a lot of self deception? I, I think that's probably where I fall in terms of just trying to explain that. Yes, I think it was present here is a real quantity, a real identity where they're self-deceived. Imagining themselves to be part of God's people, yet lacking that true saving faith. And this just, I'm gonna go in a couple places where I think everybody would expect in the scriptures, if we go to like Ephesians four, they're darkened and they're understanding alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them. And one Corinthians, when Paul writes, the natural person does not accept the things of the spirit of God, and he's not able to understand them because they're spiritually discerned. And then the book that follows the God of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers. And of course then like everything in Romans one, so I bring all that up because E, even at the end, we're gonna get there, the Es, this eschatological reality when you know God is separating out the sheep and the goats. Still, we find this kind of same trope happening there. But the unregenerate, what I'm reading from this. Importantly is that the unregenerate, they're not merely ignorant, they're blinded, as we all were on point to the spiritual truth. Yeah. By nature and by Satan. That that is also his jam. He loves to blind, to lie, to kill, steal, and destroy. So thus, even if they're outwardly belonging to the church, they're outwardly belonging to the world. They're outwardly belonging to some kind of profession. They cannot perceive the reality of their lost condition apart from divine illumination. Who can, that might be stating the obvious, but I think that's like what we're getting after here. I I, I don't know if there's like any kind of like conspiracy here. It's simply that that is the natural state of affairs. So why wouldn't we expect that to be reflected again in the world and that side by side, we're gonna find that shoulder to shoulder. We are, there are the children of God, and there are those that remain blind and ignorant to the truth. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And, and you know, it, again, I, I, um, I don't know why I'm surprised. Uh, I certainly shouldn't be surprised. Um. But Matthew is like a masterful storyteller Yeah. Here, right. He's a masterful, um, editor and narrator. Um, and he's, he's put together here, of course, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Um, and, and there's some good reason to think in the text we're not gonna get too, in the nitty gritty here, there's some good reason to think in the text that Christ actually delivered these parables as a set as well. So it's not just, it's not just Matthew coating these, although it could be. Um, but it, it seems like these were all delivered probably as like a common set of parables. And the reason I say that is because when we start to look at this parable and the one we previously went through, the parable of the soils, um, or the parable of the sower. Um, what we see is the answer to your question of why do some people, you know, why are some people deceived? Well, yes, there is secondary causation. The devil deceives them. They blind themselves. They, you know, suppress the, the, the truth and right unrighteousness. But on a, on a primary causation level, um, God is the one who is identi, is, is identifying who will be the sons of the, you know, devil and the sons of the kingdom. Mm-hmm. This is another, and yet another example of election is that the, the good sower sowed good seed, and the good seed was the elect and the enemy. Although in God's sovereignty, God is the one who determines this. The enemy is the one who sows the reprobate. Right? So all, all men. Star, and this is, I, I guess I didn't really intend to go here, but this is good evidence in my mind for, um, infra laps, Arianism versus super laps. Arianism, right infra laps, arianism or sub lapse. Arianism would say that God decrees, uh, to permit the fall and then he decrees to redeem some out of the fall, right? Logically speaking, not temporally speaking. Super laps. Arianism, which is the minority. It's the smaller portion of, of the historic tradition, although modern times, I think it's a little bit louder and a little bit more vocal, but super relapses. Arianism would argue that God, um, decrees. Sort of the, the decree of election and reprobation is logically prior to the decree of the fall. And so in, in that former or in the super laps area model, the fall becomes a means by which the reprobate are justly condemned. Not, um, not the cause of their condemnation, but a way to sort of justify the fact that they will be separated from God, right? Because of their reprobate. [00:28:36] Exploring the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares Tony Arsenal: I know that there's, there's probably some super lab streams that would nuance that differently and some that are probably just screaming straw man, uh, in a coffee shop somewhere and, and people are thinking you're crazy. Um, but by and large, that's actually a rel, a relatively accepted, um, explanation of it. There are certainly potential problems with, uh, sub, sub lapse agonism as well. But in this, in this parable, what we see is the people who are, um, who are elect, are sowed into the field and the people who are reprobate are also sowed into the field. And so God saves the people who are sewed into the field that are, they elect, he saves them out of this now mixed world by waiting and allowing them to grow up next to the reprobate, um, in sort of this mixed world setting. And then he redeems them out of that. Um, and, and, and so we have to sort of remember. Although it is a pretty strict, sort of allegorical type of parable, it's still a parable. So we shouldn't, we shouldn't always draw like direct one-to-one comparisons here. It's making a theological point, but, um, but it's important for us to re remember that, that it is ultimately, it is God who determines who is the elected and who is not. But it's, it's our sin. It's the devil deceiving us. It's the secondary causes that are responsible for the sons of the devil, right? It, the, the men come to the, to the sower and say, who is done this? He says it was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: Right? Right. Tony Arsenal: He doesn't say like, well, actually I put the seed there and so, you know, I'm, I, it's not an equal distribution. He's not sowing good seed and bad seed. He sows the good seed and the devil sows the bad seed. [00:30:24] Theological Implications and Assurance Tony Arsenal: Um, and, and that's a, I think that's an important theological point to make. And as far as assurance goes. We, we can't depend on our ability to perceive or sort of like discern election in a raw sense, right? We have to observe certain kinds of realities around us. Um, and, and primarily we have to depend on the mercy and, and saving faith that God gives us. That's right. Um, you know, our, our assurance of faith does not primarily come from fruit checking. Um, we have to do that. It's important, we're commanded to do it, and it serves as an important secondary evidence. But a, a, a person who wants to find assurance. Of salvation should first and foremost look to the promises of Christ and then depend on them. Um, and, and so that's, I think all of that's kind of wrapped up into this parable. It's, it's, it's amazing to me that we're only like two parables in, and we're already, you know, we're already talking about super lapse arianism and sub lapse arianism, and it's, it's amazing. I, I love this. I'm loving this series so far, and we're barely scratching the surface. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's all there. I think you're right to call that out. It strikes me, like, as you were speaking, it really just hit me higher that I think you're right. Really the foundation on this, like the hidden foundation is assurance and it's that assurance which splits the groups, or at least divides them, or it gives us, again, like the distinct, kind, discrete compartments or components of each of them. So. Again, I think it's help saying, 'cause we wanna be encouraging. That's, that's our whole point here is when the Apostle Peter says, be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and choosing of you. That herein we have the scripture saying to us, time and time again, be sure of what God has done in your life. Be confident in that very thing. And so if assurance is, as we're saying, that's the argument hypothesis we're making. That's the critical thing here. [00:32:11] False Assurance and True Faith Jesse Schwamb: Then the division between the children of God and the children of the devil is false versus true assurance. So the tears, I think what we're saying here, basically they typically live under false asserts. They may attend church, confess, belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical. It's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual. And of course, like just a few chapters before this, we hope those famous verses where Jesus himself drops the bomb and says, listen, many of you, he's talking to the people, the, the disciples around him, the crowds that we're gathering and thronging all about. He says, many of you're gonna say to me, Lord, Lord, do we not prophesy your name? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And then I will declare to them, I never knew you depart from me. These are not people who knew they were false, they thought they belonged to Christ. Their shock on judgment day is gonna reveal this profound self-deception. And that self-deception is wrapped up in a false type of assurance, a false righteousness. So I think one of the things that we can really come to terms with and grab a hold of is the fact that when we are. Confessing, repenting seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ. Then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally, Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance. [00:33:38] Historical Perspectives on Assurance Jesse Schwamb: You know, I was reading this week from Thomas Brooks and did incidentally come across this, a quote, an assurance and reminded me of this passage, and here's what he writes. You know, of course he's writing in like 16 hundreds, like mid 16 hundreds. It's wild, of course, but we shouldn't be surprised that what you're about to hear sounds like it could have been written today for us. In this conversation, but, uh, he writes, assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions. However, most Christians live between fears and hopes and hang, as it were, between heaven and hell. Sometimes they hope that their state is good. At other times they fear that their state is bad. Now they hope that all is well and that it shall go well. Well with them forever. Then they fear that they shall perish by the hand of such corruption or by the prevalency of such and such temptation. They're like a ship and a storm tossed here and there, and. I think that he's right about that. And I think the challenge there is to get away from that. I love where it starts, where he says, what wonderful turn of phrase assurance is the believer's arc or Noah, like, you know, we're sitting and the commotion, the destructions, the commotion, the confusions of all the world. That's why to get this right, to be encouraged by this passage, to be challenged by it is so critical because we're all looking for that arc. We all want to know that God has in fact arrested us so completely that no matter what befalls us, that everything, as we talked about before, all of our, all of the world, in fact is subservient to our salvation. But that's a real thing that cannot be snatched away from us because God has ordained it and intended it, built it, created it, and brought it to pass. And so I think that's all like in this passage, it's all the thing that's being called us to. So. I, I don't want us to get like too hung up. It's a good question, I think to ask and answer like we were trying to talk about here, but you're right. If we focus too much just on the like, let's gaff for these tears. Who are they? Like let's people's, like Readers Digest in People's magazine these tears. Like who are they? Do we have a list of them? Who do we think they are? How could it be me? Is it really me? Am I, am I anxious about that? Really what we should be saying is following what Peter calls us to do that is to be all the more diligent to make certain about his calling and his choosing. So even there like our emphasis and focus, isn't it like you're saying Tony about like, let me do some fruit inventory. I got like a lot of good bananas. I got a lot of ripe pears. Like, look at the tree. This, this is good. Even there, the emphasis is to turn our eyes on Jesus, as it were, and to make certain about his work, his calling and his choosing of us. And I think when we do that, we're falling down in worship and in yielding and submission to him, rightfully acknowledging that the righteousness of Christ is the one that is always in every way alien to us and imputed. And that is what makes us sons and daughters of God, that good seed sown by Jesus himself. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I just wanna read, I wanna um, round out a few more paragraphs here out of the Westminster confession because I do think, you know, when we even talk about assurance, we're not even always all saying the exact same thing. And I think that's important because when we talk about assurance of faith, we need to be understanding that this is the rightful, not only the rightful possession of all Christians, but it's the rightful responsibility of all Christians to seek it. So here's, here's section two of that same chapter. It says, this certainty referring to assurance. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a, a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation, the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made, the testimony of the spirit of adoption, witnessing with our hearts that we are the children of God, which spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption. So. One of the, the things that I think is, is important here is people read this and say the inward evidences of those graces unto which these promises are made. They read that and they think that it's referring to like good work and like spiritual renewal, but it's, it's not, it's the inward evidence of those graces unto which of the promises are made. So it's this inner, inner renewal. It's the spirit testifying to our spirit. And then, um, chapter, uh, section three here, it says. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it, yet being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given of God. He may without extraordinary revelation there, right there is response to Roman Catholicism in the right use of ordinary means at attain there unto. And therefore, it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence, to make his calling and election. Sure. And thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and in joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience. The proper fruits of this assurance so far is it from inclining men to looseness? Right. [00:38:53] The Role of Good Works in Assurance Tony Arsenal: So we often hear and and I, I think there are good, um, there are good reformed Christians that put. The emphasis of assurance on, or they, they put an overemphasis, in my opinion, on how good works function within our assurance. Right. They, they often will ask us to look to our good fruit as sort of, not the grounding, but as a strong evidence. But at least in terms of the confession here, the cheerfulness in the duties of obedience is the fruit of assurance. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Not Tony Arsenal: the cause or grounding of assurance. So rather than, this is what this last line says. It says so far, is it from inclining? Mental looseness assurance should drive us to obedience and fruitfulness in Christ. And so yes, it is in a certain sense an evidence because if that fruitfulness and obedience is absent from our lives, there's a good reason for us to question whether this infallible assurance is present in our lives. But the assurance is what drives us to this obedience. Um. You know, like, I think you could use the analogy of like a married couple. A married couple who is very secure in their relationship and in their, uh, love for one another and their faithfulness to each other is more likely to cheerfully serve and submit to each other and to respect each other and to sacrifice for each other than a couple that's maybe not so sure that the other person has their best interest in mind. That's or maybe isn't so sure that this thing is gonna work out. I think that's the same thing, like the sacrifice and the service that a husband, uh, performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him. That is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it. It's good evidence that that love exists, but it's not caused by it. And assurance here is the same kind of dynamic assurance is not. We can't assure ourselves of our salvation by doing good works. No matter how many good works you do, there are lots and lots of people who are not saved and who will not be saved, who do perfectly good works in appearance. Right. They have the, the outward appearance of godliness, but lack its power. Right, right. Out of right outta Paul, writing to Timothy there. Yes. So that's, that's important for us as we continue to parse all this out, is yes, the fruit is present. Yes. The wheat is to, is discernible from the tears by its final, fruitful status. Right? It grows up to be grain, which is fruitful rather than weeds and tears, which are only good to be burned, but it is not the fruit that causes it to be wheat. It's wheat that causes the fruit to grow. If, if it wasn't wheat, it wouldn't grow fruit, not because the fruit makes it grain, but because it is in fact wheat to start with. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Yeah, that's right on. So I think like by summation we're kind of saying. At least the answer to this question. You know, do the tears know that they're tears? Yes and no. Some do, some don't. I think, yes, there are some that are gonna be consciously hypocritical, willfully rejecting Christ while pretending for worldly gain. I think that's, that's certainly plain to see. And at the same time, do the tears know the tears? Sometimes? No. There's self deceived under spiritual blindness and they have some kind of false assurance. And this idea of, again, coming in repentance before God and seeking humbly to submit to him is I think one of those signs of that kind of true assurance, not a false assurance. And you already stole where I was thinking of Tony by going to Second Timothy again. Thomas Brooks in precious remedies against Saint's device is one of like the best. Books ever. I know that he's really outspoken. He loves to harp on the fact that one of Satan's most effective snares is to make men and women content with a form of godliness without its power. Yeah. And that's often what we're talking about here, I think, is that Satan loves to fish in the shallow waters a profession. And really that can happen in any kind of church or religious culture, that there is this shallowness where that loves religious appearance, prayer, knowledge fellowship, but not the Christ behind them. And so whether we're looking to somebody like Brooks or Jonathan Edwards and we're trying to parse out what are our true affections, not in a way again, that somehow leans well, I feel enough, then somehow that justifies, not inwardly, but again, definitely trying to understand our conviction for conversion tears. For repentance that. Really what we're after is not like just the blessings of Christ, but Christ himself, which I think really leads us to this eschatological perspective then to round all everything out because you know, we talked about before, there's an old phrase, it's like everywhere. A lot of people talk in heaven. Not everybody's going there. And so this idea of like, people will talk about be so great to be there and it's sometimes this, the heaven that they speak of is like absent Christ, you know, as if like, if Christ wasn't there, at least in their perspective, it still wouldn't be half bad. And so I think that does lead us to understand what is this in gathering? What is this? You know, bringing everything into the barn and burning everything else up. And like you just said, if at the beginning you cannot tell the injurious weed aside from that beautiful kernel of wheat that's coming up, but if in the end you can see what's happening in the end, then that brings us all to consummation. What does it mean in this parable? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:44:19] Eschatological Judgment and Assurance Tony Arsenal: And, and I think this actually sort of forces us to grapple a little bit with, with another sort of persnickety feature of this parable that, that I think, I think personally sometimes gets overlooked is we are very quick to talk about this parable to be about the church. And it is. Right. And, and there's reasons to talk like that. But when Christ explains the parable, he doesn't say the field is the church. He says the field is the world. Right. And so we have to, we have to, we have to do a little bit of, um. We have to do a little bit of hermeneutics to understand that this is also speaking of the church, right? It's not as though the church is some hermetically sealed off body that the dynamics of the world and the, the weed and the tears like that, that doesn't happen in the church. But when we talk about the end of the age here, he says the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom. All causes of sin in all lawbreakers. Right? So, so the, the final eschatological judgment, it's all encompassing. And I dunno, maybe I'm, maybe I'm becoming a little bit post mill with this, um, the, the world is already the Kingdom of Christ. Right? Right. That's right. It, it's not, it's not just the church on earth that is the kingdom of Christ. And so when we talk about this eschatological reaping, um, what we see is, is very straightforward. There are those who are, uh, who belong to Christ, who were sown by him into the world, who were, uh, were tended by him, who were protected by him, who he intended to harvest from the very beginning, right? The good sower sows good seed into the field, and that good seed is and necessarily will be wheat. It's not as though, um, it's not as though, and again, this is one of those ways where like the parables sometimes, uh, are telling a little bit of a different story. Even though they're sharing some themes in the first parable, in the parable of the sower, he sows the same seed into the world. But the seed in that first parable is not the, is not the person receiving the seed. The seed is the one is the word of God. Yes. And so the word of God is sewn promiscuously, even to those who will be hard soil and who will be rocky soil and have thorns. The word of God is, is sewn to all of those people. Across the whole world in this parable. The seed that is the good seed that is sown is and always was going to be weed that was, or wheat, which was going to grow into fruitfulness and be gathered into the barn. Right? That was a foregone conclusion. The, the, when the sower decided to sow seed, all of that said he is the one who did that. He's the one that chose that. He's the one that will bring us to completion, right? And then also the ones that are not of his kingdom, the sons of the devil, they will also be reaped at the end. Actually we'll be reaped before the, you know, they'll be reaped and gathered and, and tossed into the furnace before the sons of the kingdom are gathered together. Jesse Schwamb: Right. Tony Arsenal: So it, again, this is a parable and even though this is Christ's explanation of the parable, I don't think that Christ was intending to give us like a strict timeline. Right. I don't think he was encouraging us to draw a chart and try to map out where this all happens in order. Um, I do think it's relevant that, that, at least in the explanation of this parable, I mentioned it last week, that, that the rap, the rapture is actually the wicked being raptured. They're the ones that are gathered and taken out of the world and cast into the fiery furnace before the, before the righteous are gathered together and, and brought into Christ Barn. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there's a great unmasking that's happening here in this final stage. I mean, that's critically the point. I think there's a lot of stuff we could talk about open handedly and kind of hypothesize or theorize what it means. But what is plain, I think, is that there's this unmasking, this unveiling of the reality of the light of Christ's perfect judgment. But that judgment is for both parties Here it is coming and what was hidden beneath outward religion or more, a facade is gonna be revealed with eternal clarity. That's just the reality. It is coming. So in some ways it pairs. I think at least well in this, well purposely of course in this teaching because Jesus is saying, hold on, like we talked about last time. Do this is not for you to judge. You are ill-equipped. You are not skilled enough to discern this. And therefore though, you wanna go in hot and get spicy and try to throw out all the weeds. Wait for the right time. Wait for the one like you're saying, Tony has from all of eternity past intended for it to be this way. Super intending his will over all things in the casting of the seed. And as we say, Philippians, of course, finishing that good work, which was started, he will finish. It is God's two finish again. And so he says, listen, that day is coming. There's gonna be a great unmasking. Uh, get ready for it. And the scriptures bear witness to that in so many other ways. So. There's such a journey in these like handful of verses, isn't there? I mean, it's really wild. The things that not like we come up with or we read into the text, but as we sit in it a little bit, as we just spend even a cursory amount of time letting it pour over us, that we find there's like a conviction in a weight in these things that are beyond just the story and beyond just even like the illustrations themselves. What we find is, again, it's as if Jesus himself in his brilliance, of course, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is illuminating the mind in the spirit to open up our conception, understanding of the kingdom of God by bringing it to us through his perspective in our own terms, of course, which is both our language and like the context of the world in which we live, and that simple example of farming and seed. And again, even just that there are these interest weeds that look like wheat. I went on this like rabbit hole this week and did a lot of research on like tears and Yeah, like especially people in like the Midwest United States who like know a lot more about agriculture than I do have a lot to say about this. It's not just like we shouldn't be surprised like. Isn't it incredible that like there are actually weeds out there that look like, yeah, it's a brilliance of just knowing that this teaching is so finely tuned. Like we can even just talk about that. Like the world is finely tuned. This teaching is so finely tuned to these grant theological principles that we can at one point be children and appropriate them enough and assume them into our own intellectual capacity so that we can trust in them. And yet even as like adults with like, let's say like the greatest gift of intellectual capacity, still find that we cannot get to the bottom of them because they're so deep. They draw us into these really, really grand vistas or really like extremely deep cold theological waters. And I just find. That I am in awe then of what Jesus is saying here because there's a truth for us in assurance that we ought to clinging to. And there's also like stuff that we should come back to. We shouldn't just stop it here and put it out of our minds until the next time we, we want to just be stimulated by something that's interesting or that we want to just grab somebody and shake them cage style, cage two style and say like, look at this great thing that I just learned about this, this particular parable. But instead, there's so much here for us to meditate on. And in that, I think rather than the Christian finding fear in this parable, what they should find is great comfort. We should be Noah alike sitting in the ark saying, it is well with my soul. And our reason for that is because we know God has cast a seed through his son Jesus Christ. And to be a child, a child of God is the greatest thing in all the universe. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And I, I think that, um, transitions nicely to, uh, I'll make this point quick because we're coming up on time here. Um. [00:52:04] Christ's Divinity and Sovereignty Tony Arsenal: The other little subtle thing that Christ does here in this parable is he, he absolutely asserts his divinity and sovereignty overall creation. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Yep. Tony Arsenal: Right. It, it's almost like a throw. There's a couple little like lines that are almost throwaway lines, right in the, the first, the beginning of the parable here. Um, the parable itself, uh, he says, um, the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed into a field. And then he says, um, the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, right? And then when he interprets the parable, he says, well, the, the servants are, the field is the world, right? So he's the master of the world, and the servants are the angels. So he's the master of the angels. And then if, if there was any doubt left in your mind. Says in verse 41, the son of man will send his angels. That's right. And they will gather out of his kingdom, which is the world, all the causes of sin and all lawbreakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. Right? So we have this, this robust picture that there is election. The the good sower sows good seed into the world, and the good seed will necessarily grow into wheat and will be preserved and protected and ultimately harvest Well, why can we have assurance that that will be the case? Well, because the master of the house is the son of man who is the Lord of the universe and the creator of all things. And his angels do his will. That's right. So, so the whole thing is all wrapped up. Why can we have assurance? Because God is a good God and Christ is a good savior, and the savior of the world is the creator of the universe, right? If any of those facts were not true. Then we couldn't have assurance. If God wasn't good, then maybe he's lying. If Christ wasn't the savior of the world or the God of the universe, the creator of the universe, then he wasn't worthy to be the one who saves. All of this is wrapped up in the parables, and this is what's so exciting about the parables. In most of the instances that we look up, especially of the sort of longer parables, these kinds of dynamics are there where it's not just a simple story making a simple point, it is making one primary point. Usually there's one primary point that a, that a parable is making. But in order to make that primary point, there's all these supporting points and supporting things that have to be the case. If the, if the good sower was not the master of the house and a, a competent, uh, a competent landowner who knew the difference between wheat and weeds, even at the early stage, right? His, his servants go and go, what happened? What's with all of these weeds? They can tell the difference somehow, Jesse Schwamb: right? Tony Arsenal: He's immediately able to go, well, this was an enemy. Jesse Schwamb: That's right. Tony Arsenal: And while they're bumbling around going, should we go rip it all up and start over? He is like, no, no, no, no. Just wait until, wait until it all grows up together. And when that happens, the Reapers will come and they'll take care of it and they'll do it in my direction, right? Because he's competent, he's the savior, he's the creator, he's the good master, he is the good sower. Um, we can be confi

In episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood, hosts Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb explore Jesus's parable of the wheat and tares (weeds) from Matthew 13. This thought-provoking discussion examines Christ's startling teaching that good and evil will always coexist within the visible church until the end of time. The brothers carefully unpack the theological implications of Jesus's command not to separate wheat from weeds prematurely, challenging our natural tendency to judge others while offering wisdom about God's sovereign plan for final judgment. This episode wrestles with difficult questions about church purity, assurance of salvation, and how believers should approach the reality of false professors within Christ's church—providing biblical guidance for faithfully enduring in a mixed communion. Key Takeaways The Coexistence of True and False Believers: Jesus teaches that the visible church will always contain a mixture of genuine believers and false professors until the final judgment. The Danger of Premature Judgment: Christ explicitly warns against attempting to completely purify the church before the harvest (end of age) because doing so would damage the wheat (true believers). Proper Biblical Interpretation: Unlike some parables, Jesus provides a detailed allegorical explanation of this parable—the sower is Christ, the field is the world, the good seed represents believers, and the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The Challenge of Discernment: One of the most difficult theological pills to swallow is that it's often impossible to perfectly distinguish between true and false believers. Final Judgment as God's Prerogative: The separation of wheat from weeds is reserved for the angels at the end of the age, not for current church leaders or members. The Reality of False Assurance: Some professing Christians may have false assurance of salvation while genuinely believing they are saved. The Importance of Theological Integrity: Public theologians and pastors have a moral responsibility to be transparent about their theological convictions and changes in their beliefs. Deeper Explanations The Difficult Reality of a Mixed Church Jesus's teaching in the parable of the wheat and weeds directly challenges our natural desire for a perfectly pure church. By instructing the servants not to pull up the weeds lest they damage the wheat, Christ is establishing an important ecclesiological principle that will hold true until His return. This means that no matter how rigorously we apply church discipline or how carefully we examine profession of faith, we will never achieve a perfectly pure communion this side of eternity. The visible church—which can be understood as those who profess faith and are baptized—will always include both true and false believers. This reality should cultivate humility in how we approach church membership and discipline. Jesus isn't suggesting that all attempts at church purity are wrong (as other Scripture passages clearly call for church discipline), but rather that perfect purification is impossible and attempts at achieving it will inevitably damage true believers. This teaching directly refutes movements throughout church history (like Donatism) that have sought absolute purity in the visible church. The Problem of Discernment and Assurance One of the most challenging aspects of this parable is Christ's implicit teaching that true and false professors can appear nearly identical, especially in their early development. Like tares growing alongside wheat, false believers can profess orthodox doctrine, participate in church life, and exhibit what appears to be spiritual fruit. This creates profound implications for how we understand assurance of salvation. As Tony notes, while "assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian," there's also the sobering reality of false assurance. Some may sincerely believe they are saved when they are not, raising difficult questions about self-examination and spiritual discernment. This doesn't mean believers should live in perpetual doubt, but rather that we should approach assurance with both confidence in God's promises and healthy self-examination. True assurance must be grounded in the finished work of Christ rather than merely in our experiences or behaviors, while false assurance often lacks this proper foundation. The brothers wisely note that final judgment belongs to God alone, who perfectly knows who belongs to Him. Memorable Quotes "The visible church is set before us as a mixed body. Maybe everybody else's churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion." - Jesse Schwamb "I think that's what I find shocking. It is like a massive statement of reality that is at equal points totally sensible. And other times we would think, 'well, surely not in the church Lord, like of all the places, like aren't we talking about a kind of purity of your people?' ...and what I think he's striking at, which I do find a little bit wild, is that Jesus is essentially saying, at least to my ear, anything we try to do, even the purest preaching of the gospel, is not gonna prevent this in every age of the church." - Jesse Schwamb "I'm affirming that assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian." - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I am Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Guess what? It looks like you and I are taking another trip back to the farm on this episode. Tony Arsenal: Yes. For a couple episodes. Jesse Schwamb: For a couple episodes. Yeah. [00:01:01] Exploring Jesus' Parables in Matthew 13 Jesse Schwamb: Because what, Jesus will not stop leading us there. We're looking at his teachings, specifically the parables, and we're gonna be looking in Matthew chapter 13, where it seems like, is it possible that Jesus, once again has something very shocking for us to hear? That is for all the ages. 'cause it seems like he might actually be saying, Tony, that good and evil will always be found together in the professing church until the end of the world. Like in other words, that the visible church is set before a mixed body. I mean. Maybe everybody else chose churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion. Could that possibly be what Jesus is saying to us? I don't know what we're gonna find out. Tony Arsenal: We are. We are gonna find out. Jesse Schwamb: It's gonna be definitive. And if now that makes sense. If you don't even know why we're looking at Jesus' teachings, you could do us a favor even before you go any further. And that is just head on over in your favor, interwebs browser to or reform brotherhood.com, and you can find out all of the other episodes, all 464 that are living out there. There's all kinds of good stuff, at least we think so, or at least entertaining stuff for you to listen to. And when you're done with all of that in a year or two, then we'll pick it up right back here where we're about to go with some affirmations or some denials. [00:02:39] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: So Tony, before we figure out what Jesus has for us in Matthew 13, in the parable of the weeds, or the tears, or the tears in the weed, what gets all of that? Are you affirming with, are you denying against, Tony Arsenal: I am denying. First of all, I'm denying whatever this thing is that's going on with my throat. Sorry for the rest of the episode, everyone. Um, I'm denying something that I, I think it is. How do I want to phrase this? Um, maybe I'll call it theological integrity, and maybe that's too strong of a word, but maybe not. So the listener who's been with us for a little while will remember that a while back. Um, you know, we've, we've talked about Matthew Barrett and he was a Baptist, uh, who's heavily involved in sort of the theology, proper controversies. He wrote Simply Trinity, which is just a fantastic book. He was a teacher or a professor at Midwestern, um, Baptist Theological Seminary. And he recently, um, uh, converted is not the right word. I hate calling it a conversion when you go from one faithful Bible tradition to another. But he recently, um, changed his perspective and joined the Anglican Church. And at the time I kind of, you know, I kind of talked about it as like, it's a little bit disappointing, like the reasons he cited. [00:03:57] Theological Integrity and Public Disclosure Tony Arsenal: Where I'm bringing this into a matter of sort of theological integrity. And it's not, it's not just Matthew Barrett. Um, there's other elements of things going on that I'll, I'll point to too is it's often the case when someone who is in some form of professional theological work or professional vocational ministry, that as they start to change perspectives, um, there comes to be like an inflection point where they should notify whoever it is that they are accountable to in that job or vocation, uh, uh, and then do the right thing and step down. Right? And so with Matthew Barrett, um. He continued to teach systematic theology at a Baptist Theological Seminary, which has a faith statement which he was obligated to affirm and hold in good faith. He continued to teach there for quite some time, if, you know, when he, when he published the timeline and he's the one that put all the timelines out there. So it's not like people had to go digging for this. Um, he continued to teach under contract and under that, that faith statement, um, for quite some time after his positions changed. I remember in college, um, sim very similar situation, one of my professors, um, and I went to a Baptist college. It was a General Baptist college. Um, one of my professors became Roman Catholic and for quite some time he continued to teach without telling anyone that he had converted to Roman Catholicism. Um. And I think that there's a, there's a, a level of integrity that public theologians need to have. Um, and it, it really makes it difficult when something like this happens to be able to say that this is not a moral failing or some sort of failure. Um, you know, James White has jumped on the bandwagon very quickly to say, of course we told you that this was the way it was gonna lead. That if you affirm the great tradition, you know, he was very quick to say like, this is the road to Rome. And I think in his mind, um, Canterbury is just sort of one, one stop on that trip. Um, it becomes very hard after the fact to not have this color and tarnish all of your work before. 'cause it starts to be questions like, well, when, when did you start to hold these views? Were you writing, were you, were you publicizing Baptist theology when you no longer believed it to be the truth? Were you teaching theology students that this is what the Bible teaches when you no longer thought that to be true? Um. Were you secretly attending Anglican services and even teaching and, and helping deliver the service when you were, you know, still outwardly affirming a Baptist faith statement. And the reason I, I'll point out one other thing, 'cause I don't want this to be entirely about Matthew Barrett, but there's a big, uh, hub glue going on in the PCA right now. Um, a guy named Michael Foster, who some of our audience will probably be familiar with, um, he and I have had our desktops in the past, but I think he and I have come to a little bit of a, of a uneasy truce on certain things. He, uh, went to work compiling a, a list and there's some problems with the data, like it's, it's not clean data, so take it for what it's worth. But he compiled a list of. Every publicly available church website in the PCA. So something like 1800 websites or something like that. Huge numbers. And he went and looked at all of the staff and leadership directories, and he cataloged all the churches that had some sort of office or some sort of position that appeared to have a, a woman leading in a way that the Bible restricts. And that more importantly, and starting to say it this way, but more importantly, that the PCA itself restricts. So we're not talking about him going to random church websites and making assessments of their polity. We're talking about a, a denomination that has stated standards for who can bear office and it's not women. Um. So he compiled this and people in the PCA are coming out of the woodwork to basically defend the practice of having shepherdess and deacons. There was one that he cataloged where, um, the website actually said, uh, that was the pastor's wife and the title was Pastor of Women. Um, and then as soon as it became public that this was the case, they very quickly went in and changed the title to Shepherd of Women or Shepherdess of Women or something like that. So it's, it's really the same phenomena, not commenting, you know, I think we've been clear where we stand on the ordination of female officers and things like that, but not that all that withstanding, um, when you are going to be a part of a body that has a stated perspective on something and then just decide not to follow it, the right thing to do the, the upstanding morally. Uh, in full of integrity move would be to simply go to another denomination where your views align more closely. PCA churches, it's not super easy, but it's not impossible to leave the PCA as an entire congregation and then go somewhere like the EPC, which is the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, which still on the spectrum of things is still relatively conservative, but is in general is in favor of, uh, female officers, elders, and diegans. So I, I think, you know, and you see this with podcasters, there was the big, there was a big fu and Les became a Presbyterian, and then when Tanner became a Presbyterian on the pub, I think it is, um, incumbent on people who do any form of public theology and that that would include me and Jesse when our views change. There comes a point where we need to disclose that, be honest about it, um, and not try to pretend that we continue to hold a view that we don't be just because it's convenient or because it might be super inconvenient to make a change. I don't even want to pretend to imagine the pressures, uh, that someone like Matthew Barrett would face. I mean, you're talking about losing your entire livelihood. I, I understand that from an intellectual perspective, how difficult that must be, but in some ways, like that kind of comes with the territory. Same thing with a pastor. You have a Baptist pastor or a Presbyterian pastor. It can go both ways, I think. I'm more familiar with Baptist becoming Presbyterians. I don't, I don't see as many going the other direction. But you have a, a Baptist pastor who comes to pay to Baptist convictions and then continues to minister in their church for, I've, I've seen cases where they continue to minister for years, um, because they don't, they don't have the ability to now just go get a job in a Presbyterian context because there's all sorts of, um, training and certification and ordination process that needs to happen. Um, so they just continue ministering where they are, even though they no longer believe the church's state of, you know, state of faith statement. So that's a lot to say. Like, let your yes be yes and your no be no, and when we really all boil it down. So I think that's enough of that. It, it just sort of got in my craw this week and I couldn't really stop thinking about it. 'cause it's been very frustrating. And now there are stories coming out of. Doctoral students that, um, that Barrett was teaching who have now also become Anglican. Um, so, you know, there starts to be questions of like, was he actively pros? I mean, this is like Jacob Arminius did this stuff and, and like the reform tradition would look down on it, where he was in secret in like sort of small group private settings. He was teaching convictions very different than the uni. I'm talking about Arminius now. Not necessarily Barrett. He was teaching convictions very different than the, the stated theology of the university he taught for, and then in public he was sort of towing the line. You have to ask the question and it is just a question. There's been no confirmation that I'm aware of, but you have to ask the question if that was what was going on with Barrett, was he teaching Baptist theology publicly and then meeting with, with PhD students privately and, and sort of convincing them of Anglican theology. I don't know. I'm not speculating on that, but I think it, the situation definitely right, brings that question to mind. It forces us to ask it. Um, and had he. Been transparent about his theological shifts sooner than that may not be a, a question we have to ask. Um, the situation may not be all that different, but we wouldn't have to ask the question. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's totally fair. I mean, disclosure is important in lots of places in life and we shouldn't think that theological dis disclosure, especially like you're saying among our teachers, among our pastors, it is a critical thing. It's helpful for people to know when perspectives have changed, especially when they're looking to their leaders who are exhibiting trust and care over their discipleship or their education to express that difference. If there's been a mark, change it. It's worth it. Disclose, I'm guessing you don't have to over disclose, but that we're talking about a critical, we're talking about like subversive anglicanism, allegedly. Yeah. Then. It would be more than helpful to know that that is now shaping not just perspective, but of course like major doctrine, major understanding. Yeah. And then of course by necessary conviction and extension, everything that's being promulgated or proclamation in the public sphere from that person is likely now been permeated by that. And we'd expect so. Right. If convictions change, and especially like you're talking about, we're just talking about moving from, especially among like Bible believing traditions, just raise the hand and say loved ones, uh, this is my firm conviction now. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I think if someone walks up to you and says, do you think that we should baptize babies? And you're like, yeah, I think so. Then you probably shouldn't be teaching at a Baptist seminary anymore. Like, seems like a reasonable standard. And that seems to be what happened, at least for some period of time. Um, you know, and, and it, that's not to say like, I think, I think there are instances where the church, a given church or um, or a university or seminary or, or whatever the situation might be, can be gracious and recognize like, yeah, people's perspectives change and maybe we can find a way for you to continue to finish out the semester or, you know, we can bridge you for a little while until you can find a new, a new job. Um, you know, we'll, we'll only have you teach certain courses or we'll have a guest lecturer come in when you have to cover this subject that is at variance and like, we'll make sure we're all clear about it, but it doesn't seem like any of that happened. And that's, um, that's no bueno. So anyway, Jesse. What are you affirming and or denying Tonight? [00:13:43] Music Recommendations Jesse Schwamb: I'm just gonna go with something brief. I suppose this is an affirmation of me. I'm saying that like somewhat tongue in cheek, but maybe it's, wait, I'll rephrase. It's because this will be more humble. I'm affirming getting it right, even more than I thought. So I'm just gonna come back to the well and dip it into something that I mentioned on the last episode. So the keen listener, the up-to-date listener might remember. And if you're not up to date, uh, just let this be fresh for you. It'll, and I, it's gonna be correct because now I have posts, you know, I'm on the other side of it. I've clear hindsight. I am affirming with the album Keep It Quiet by Gray Haven, which I affirmed last week, but it came out on the same day that the episode released. And since you and I don't really like record in real time and release it like exactly as it's happening, I only did that with some, a little bit of reservation because I only heard they only released three songs in the album. And I thought I was overwhelmed that they were, they were so good that I was ready to jump in and loved ones. Oh, it, it turns out. I was so correct and it was, it's even better than I thought. So go check it out. It's Grey, GRE, YH, and they are, this is the warning, just because I have to give it out there and then I'll balance it with something else for something for everybody here today. So, gr Haven is music that's post hardcore and metal core. You're getting two cores for the price of one, if that is your jam. It has strong maleic sensibilities. It's very emotional, it's very experimental. But this new album, which is called, um, again, keep It Quiet, is like just a work of arts. It real like the guitar work is intricate haunting, lovely, and it's bold, like very intentional in its structure and very el loose in its construction. It's got hook driven melodies and it's got both heart and soft. It really is truly a work of art. So if you're trying to, to put it in your minds, like what other bands are like this? I would compare them to bands like, every Time I Die, Norma Jean, let Live Hail the Sun. If you just heard those as combinations of words that don't mean anything to you, that's also okay. No worries. But if you're looking for something different, if you're looking for something that's maybe gonna challenge your ear a little bit, but is like orchestral and has all of these metal core post hardcore, melodic, textured movements, there's no wasted notes in this album. It's really tremendous. If that's not your thing. I get, that's not everybody's thing. Here's something else I think would be equally challenging to the ear in a different way. And that is, I'm going back to one other album to balance things out here, and that's an album that was released in 2019 by Mark Barlow, who I think is like just. So underrated. For some reason, like people have slept on Mike Barlow. I have no idea why he put together an album with Isla Vista Worship called Soul Hymns, and it's like a distinct soul and r and b album of praise with like these really lovely like falsetto, harmonies. It's got these minimalistic instrumentation, warm keys, groove oriented percussion, like again, like these false soul driven melodies. It's contemplative. It's got a groove to it. This is also equally a beautiful album for a totally different reason. So I think I've given two very book-ended, very different affirmations, but I think there's something for everybody. So my challenge to your loved ones is you gotta pick one or the other. Actually, you could do both, but either go to Gray Havens, keep it quiet, or go to Mike Bellow's Soul hymns. I do not think you will be disappointed. There's something for everybody on this one. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, it was funny because as you were saying the names of those bands, I literally was thinking like Jesse could be speaking Swahili and I wouldn't know the difference. And then you, you, you know me well, yeah. Uh, I haven't listened to Gray Haven. Uh, I probably will give it a couple minutes 'cause that's how it usually goes with songs that meet that description. Uh, I can always tell that the music that Jesse recommends is good from a technical perspective, but I never really, I never really vibe with it. So that's okay. But I mean, lots of people who listen to our show do so check that out. If, if you ever. Want a good recommendation for music. Jesse is the pers so much so that he can recommend amazing music before it's even available and be a hundred percent correct, apparently. That's right. So Jesse Schwamb: affirm with me everybody, because turns out I was right. Uh, it was easy to be correct when of course I had all of that fair sightedness by being able to listen to those. Yeah, those couple of songs, it, this is a kind of album. Both of these, both of these albums. When I heard them, I reacted audibly out loud. There are parts of both of 'em where I actually said, oh wow. Or yeah, like there's just good stuff in there. And the older you get, if you're a music fan, even if you're not, if you don't listen to a lot of music, you know when that hook gets you. You know when that turn of melody or phrase really like hits you just, right. Everybody has that. Where the beat drops in a way. You're just like, yes, gimme, you make a face like you get into it. I definitely had that experience with both of these albums and because. I've listened to a lot of music because I love listening to music. It's increasingly rare where I get surprised where, you know, like sometimes stuff is just like popular music is popular for a reason and it's good because it's popular and it follows generally some kind of like well established roots. But with these albums, it's always so nice when somebody does something that is totally unexpected. And in these, I heard things that I did not expect at all. And it's so good to be surprised in a way that's like, why have I never heard that before? That is amazing. And both of these bands did it for me, so I know I'm like really hyping them up, but they're worth it. They're, they're totally worth it. Good music is always worth it. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I think that is a good recommendation. I will check those out because, you know, you're a good brother. I usually do, and I trust your judgment even though it, you'll like the second one. Yes. Hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: You'll like the second one. Second one is like, just filled with praise and worship. And like, if, if you're trying to think, like say, here's how I'd couch the proper atmosphere for Mark Barlow's soul hymns you're having, you know, it's, it's a cold and chilly. A tal evening, the wind is blowing outside. You can hear the crisp leaves moving around on the pavement and the sun has gone down. The kids are in bed, the dinner dishes are piled up in the sink. But you think to yourselves, not tonight. I don't think so, and you just want that toneage to put on. You want that music as you dim the lights and you sit there to just hang out with each other and take a breath. You don't just want some kind of nice r and b moving music. You don't want just relaxing vibes. You want worshipful spirit filled vibes that propel your conversation and your intimacy, not just into the marital realm, but into worship and harmony with the triune God. If you're looking for that album, because that situation is before you, then sol hymns is the music you're looking for. Tony Arsenal: See, I'm gonna get the, I'm gonna get the recommendations backwards and I'm gonna sit down with my wife with a nice like evening cup of decaf tea and I'm gonna turn the music on. Yes, it's gonna be like, yes. That was me screaming into the microphone. That was not good for my voice. Well, the good news is it's gonna, it's gonna wake the kids up. That's, I'm gonna sleep on the couch. That's, it's gonna be bad. That's, Jesse Schwamb: honestly, that's also a good evening. It's just a different kind of evening. It's true. So it's just keep it separated again, uh, by way of your denial slash affirmation. Tony disclosure, I'm just giving you proper disclosure. Everybody know your music KYM, so that way when you have the setting that you want, you can match it with the music that you need. So it's true. Speaking of things that are always worth it. [00:21:30] Parable of the Weeds Jesse Schwamb: I think the Bible's gotta be one of those things. Tony Arsenal: It's true. Jesse Schwamb: And this is like the loosest of all segues because it's like the Sunday school segue into any topic that involves the scriptures. We're gonna be in Matthew 13, and how about we do this? So this is one of these parables and in my lovely ESV translation of the scriptures, the, we're just gonna go with the heading, which says the parable of the weeds. You may have something different and I wanna speak to that just briefly, but how do we do this, Tony? I'll hit us up with the parable and then it just so happens that this is one of the parables in the scripture that comes with an interpretation from our savior. It's true. How about you hit us up with the interpretation, which is in the same chapter if you're tracking with us, it's just a couple verses way. Does that sound good? Tony Arsenal: Let's do it. Jesse Schwamb: Okay. Here is the parable of the weeds. Jesus puts another parable before them saying The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sewed good seed in his field. But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sewed weeds among the weeds and went away. So when the plants came up and bork rain, then the weeds also appeared, and the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds? He said to them, an enemy has done this. So the servant said to him, then, do you want us to go and gather them? Then he said, no. Lest in gathering the weeds, you root up the wheat along with them, but let them grow together until the harvest and at harvest time, I will tell the reapers, gather the weeds first, and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn. Tony Arsenal: Alright, so then jumping down. To verse 36. We're still in Matthew 13, he says, then he left the crowds and went into the house and his disciples came to him saying, explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field. He answered, the one who sows the good seed is the son of man. The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angel. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age, the son of man will send his angels and they will gather out of his kingdom, all that, all causes of sin in all lawbreakers and throw them into the fiery furnace. It is that in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father. He who has ears let him hear. Jesse Schwamb: So let me start with just like a little bit of language here, which I've always loved in this passage because where else in like the contemporary context, do you get the word tear? Yeah. Aside if you're like using a scale, and that's a totally different definition. I like this. I like the word tear. It force, it forces to understand that what's common to our ear, why that's being used, it often is translated weed. Here's just like my, my little like linguistic addition to the front end of our discussion and is the reason I like it is because here does have a specific definition. If like you were to look this up in almost any dictionary, what you're gonna find is it's like a particular type of weed. It's actually like an injurious weed that is indistinguishable in its infant form from the outgrowing of green. So I like that because of course that is exactly why. Then there's all this explanation of why then to not touch anything in the beginning because one, it causes damage to it looks like everybody else. I just thought I'd put that out there as we begin our discussion. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, yeah. You know, I, um, I am a homeowner and I don't own the land that I'm on, but I'm responsible for the land that I'm on. And we have this really gnarly weed problem. There's this, uh, sort of floor growing, uh, carpeting weed called, uh, I think it's called like a carpeting knob, head weed or something like that. Some really descriptive thing. And I went out there the other day and there's really nothing you can do about this other than to rip it up. But I went out there the other day to start to pull some of it up and it totally wrecks the yard. Like it totally pulls up the grass, it destroys the sod. And when you're done, this is why it's kind of nice that I don't have, I'm not responsible for the land as I'm not gonna have to pay to resod the land. But when you're done pulling up this weed, you have to resod the whole place. You have to regrow all the grass because it, first, it takes over for the grass, and then when you rip it up, it rips the roots of the grass up as well. And so this parable, um, on one level is immediately obvious, like what the problem is, right? The situation is such. That the good, uh, the good sower, right? He's a good sower. He knows what he's doing. He understands that simply ripping up the weeds. Even if you could distinguish them right, there's this element that like at an early stage, they would be very difficult, if not impossible to distinguish from, uh, from wheat. Even if you could distinguish them, you still wouldn't be able to pull up the weeds and not do damage to the grain. And so we, we have this sort of like, um, conflict if you wanna follow like literary standards, right? We have this conflict and as we come to sort of the climax of this, of this plot is when all of a sudden we see that, that the problem needs a resolution and there is a resolution, but it's not necessarily what we would think it would be. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's what I find shocking. It is like a massive statement of reality that is that like equal points or equal times totally sensible. And other times we would think, well why surely not in the church Lord, like of all the places, like aren't we talking about a kind of purity of your people, the very people that you're assembling together, the chief of which is Christ and the apostles being the building stones and Christ of course being the cornerstone. And I, I think that's what I find and I wonder the people hearing this, if they thought like, well, surely Lord, that not be the case like you are bringing in and ushering in this new kingdom. Isn't this new kingdom gonna be one of absolute purity? And, and what I think he's striking at, which I do find a little bit wild, is that Jesus essentially saying, at least to my ear, anything we try to do, even like the purest preaching of the gospel, is not gonna prevent this in every age of the church. The same state of the things that's existed in that is in the time of the early fathers. In the first century, and the church as it stands right now in the land and the time of the reformers, and of course with the best ministers at this hour right now and on your next Lord's day, and everyone after that, there is always and ever will be a visible church or a religious assembly in which the members are not all wheat. Yeah. And then I like what you're saying. It's this idea that. There's a great harm that's gonna come about if you try to lift them up because you cannot tell. So, and this is what's hard, I think this does influence like how we interact with people online. Certainly how we interact with people in our own congregations, but we are going to have no clear convicted proofs. We might only have like probable symptoms if we're really trying to judge and weigh out to discern the weeds from the weeds, which at most can only give us some kind of conjectural knowledge of another state. And that is gonna sometimes preemptively judge cause us to judge others in a way that basically there's a warning against here. It, it's, it's not the right time. And ba I think mainly from the outside where I find like this parable coming together, if there's like maybe a weird Venn diagram of the way Christians read this and the way unbelievers hear this, the overlap between them is for me, often this idea of like hypocrisy and you know. When people tell me that the church is full of hypocrites, either like Christian or non-Christian, but typically that's a, a, you know, statement that comes from the non-Christian tongue. When people say that the church is full of hypocrites, I do with a little bit of snark, say it's definitely not full of hypocrites. There are always room for more in the church and, and there's like a distinction of course between the fact that there is hypocrisy in the Christian or whether the Christian is in fact or that person is a hypocrite. So like when I look through the scriptures, we see like Pharaoh confessing, we see Herod practicing, we see Judas preaching Christ Alexander venturing his life for Paul. Yeah, we see David condemning in another, what he himself practiced and like hezeki glorifying and riches Peter. Doing all kinds of peter stuff that he does, and even all the disciples forsaken Christ, an hour of trouble and danger. So all that to say, it goes back to this like lack of clear, convicted proofs that I think Jesus is bringing forward here, but only probable symptoms. And I'm still processing, of course, like the practicality of what you're saying, Tony, that in some ways it seems like abundantly clear and sensible that you should, you're, you're gonna have a problem distinguishing. But our human nature wants to go toward distinguishing and then toward uprooting sometimes. And the warning here is do not uproot at the improper time. And in fact, it's not even yours to uproot because God will send in the laborers to do that at the time of, of harvest. And so there will be weeds found among the wheat. It's just like full stop statement. And at the same time it's warning, do not go after them now. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, I'm sure this, um, I, I'm sure this will spill over into a second conversation, but we, I think we have to talk a little bit about the interpretation here before we, before we even like talk more about the parable itself, because if you're not careful, um, and, and. I need to do a little bit more study on this, but it, it's interesting because Matthew almost seems to want you to sort of blend these parables together a little bit. Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Tony Arsenal: Right. These, these, there's three, um, there's three, maybe four if you count the parable of the treasure in the field. But there's three agricultural parables that have to do with sowing seed of one, of, one way or another. And in each one the seed is something different. And I, it almost seems to me. And then on top of that, the parables are like interwoven within each other. So like right smack in the middle of this, we have the parable. Uh, is given. Then the next parable of the mustard seed, which we're gonna talk about in a future episode, is given, and then the explanation of this parable of the tears is given. Um, and so we have to talk a little bit about it and sort of establish what the seed is, because we just spent three weeks talking about the seed in the par of the sower. Um, or the parable of the, of the soils. And in that parable, the seed was the word of God in this parable. And this is where I think sometimes, um, and again, this is like the doctrine of election in parable form, right? Yes. I think sometimes we read this and we, we misstep because the seed is not, uh, is not the word of God in this. The seed is the believers. Jesse Schwamb: Yes. Tony Arsenal: Right. So the good seed is sewn into, uh, into the field, which, you know, I think maybe there'll be some, we, we can save this for, for next week. But a little sneak peek is, it's not always clear exactly what the field is. Right. And I think we often, we often talk about the field as though it's the church that doesn't necessarily align a hundred percent with how Christ explains the parable. So we'll have to, we'll have to talk through that a little bit. I affirm that it is the church in, in a, a broad sense. Um, but, but the, the way that Christ explains it slightly different, but the, the seed is sewn into the world. The sons of the kingdom of heaven are sowed into the, into the world. And then the seed of the enemy, the bad seed, is the sons of the devil that's also sewn into the world. And so these two seeds grow up next to each other. If we think about the seed here as though it's the word of God, rather than the, the actual believers and unbelievers that elect in the ate, we're gonna make some missteps on how we understand this because we're not talking about, um, the, the seed being, you know, doctrine being sewn into the world. And some of it grows up good and some of it grows up bad or good doctrine and bad doctrine. We're talking about the believers themselves. Sorry, Jesse is mocking my rapid attempt to mute before I cough, which I, I did. That was pretty good. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that was, that was pretty good. Listen, this is real. Podcasting is how it goes. Yeah, I'm with you. Thank you for pulling out that distinction. 'cause it is critical. We, we have some overlap of course, with Jesus being really ascribed as the farmer, the son of man, right. He's sowing this good seed, but not the word. It's believers or the sons of the kingdom. And it is into his field, which is the world. Part of that world of course, is necessarily the church, right? But while everybody's sleeping, this enemy, the devil, he comes, he sows weeds or unbelievers, the sons of the evil one among this weed, they grow, go up together. And of course, like if I were servants in this household, I'd ask the same thing, which was like, should we get the gloves out? Yeah. Just pull those bad boys out. Like and, and so again, that's why I find it very so somewhat shocking that. It's not just, you could see like Jesus saying something like, don't worry about it now because listen, at the end of all time when the harvest comes, uh, I'm gonna take care of it. Like it's just not worth it to go out now. Right. That's not entirely The reason he gives, the reason is lest they uproot the wheat by mistake. So this is showing that the servants who are coming before Jesus in the parable, in this teaching here to really volitionally and with great fidelity and good obedience to him to want to please him to do his will. He there, he's basically saying, you are not qualified to undertake this kind of horticulture because you're just not either skilled enough or discerning enough to be able to do it right. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think, um. Maybe just a word of meth methodology too. Um, this parable also flies in the face of all of the, like, parables are not allegories, kind of kind of people. Um, and this is, we talked about this in our introductory episode. You have to take each parable for what it's worth, this parable very much is explained like a traditional allegory, right? Right. [00:35:39] Understanding the Parable's Symbols Tony Arsenal: It's got, it's got several different elements and Christ goes through and the first thing he does is tell you what each element represents, right? The sower is the son of man, the field is the word. The good seed is the sons of the kingdom of the weed. It's like, he's like clicking down all of the symbols and then he explains how all of it works together and like a good, all like a good allegory. Once you understand what each element and each symbol is, the rest of it actually is very self-explanatory, right? When you understand who's what in the parable. The outcome and the sort of the punchline writes itself as it were. And I think this is one of those parables that we would do. [00:36:18] Challenging Our Sensibilities Tony Arsenal: I think we would do well to sort of let marinate a little bit because it does challenge a lot of our sensibilities of what, um, what is real in the world, what is real in terms of our interaction with the world, right? What's real in terms of the role of unbelievers in the life of a Christian, um, whether we can identify who is or isn't an unbeliever. Um, I think we, you know, I, I'm not one of those people that's like, we should assume everyone's a Christian. And I'm certainly not one of those people who's like, we should assume nobody is a Christian. But I think there are a lot of times where we have figures either in public or people in our lives. Like personal acquaintances that have some sort of outward appearance. And, and that's like the key here that that distinction between weeds is a, is not a great translation as you said. Right. Because right. That distinction between wheat and weeds, to go to my analogy, like it's very clear what is grass and what is this like carpeting, knob weed. Like there's no, there's no doubt in my mind, which is the weed and which is the grass. Um, that's not what we're talking about here. And so it does, it does say here, I mean, it implies here that it's not going to be easy to distinguish the difference between exactly. The, a son of the kingdom and a son of the evil one. And I think that's a, that's a. A theological pill that is very difficult to swallow. Yes. [00:37:43] Personal Reflections on Identifying Christians Tony Arsenal: Because a lot of us, um, and this goes back to like what I, what we were saying in the last, the last parable, A lot of us were reared in our Christian faith on sort of this idea that like, you can check your fruit or you can check other people's fruits and you can determine, you can easily identify who's a Christian and who's not. I remember when I was in high school, you know, I got, I was converted when, when I was 15 and, um, I got to high school and it felt very easy to me to be able to identify the people who were play acting Christianity and the people who were real Christians. That felt like the most natural thing in the world to me. Um, it, it's an interesting story, but one of the people that I was absolutely sure was not a Christian. That he was just doing kinda civic Christianity. He was in confirmation 'cause his parents wanted him to. Um, and I had good reason to believe that at the time he was very worldly. He, he, um, did not seem to be serious about his faith at all. There was good reason to make the assessment that I did. And then I ran into him on Facebook like 15 years later and he's a pastor at the Lutheran Church and he's, you know, he loves the Lord Jesus Christ. And he would not explain it as though he had a later conversion story. It's not as though he would say like, well yeah, in high school I pretended to be a Christian. And then, you know, I got through college and uh, I really became like I got converted. He would, would grow this, or he would explain this as slow, steady growth from an immature state that knew the facts of the gospel and in a certain sense trusted that Jesus was his savior and didn't fully understand the ramifications of that. I mean, who did at 15 years old? Mm-hmm. Um. And, and that it was a slow, steady growth to the place that he's in now. [00:39:21] The Difficulty of Distinguishing Believers Tony Arsenal: So I, I think we should take seriously, and maybe this is the takeaway for this week at least, and we can, we can talk about it more, is we should take seriously the fact that the Sons of the Kingdom and the Sons of the evil one in this parable are not only inseparable without doing damage, but in many ways they are not easily distinguishable. Jesse Schwamb: Right. On. Tony Arsenal: Um, and that, that's a baked into the parable. And I think we do spend a fair amount of time and I, I'll. I'll throw myself on on this. You know, this, we, I'm not just saying we, um, we as a genuine statement, like I have participated in this. I'm sure that I still do participate in this sometimes intentionally. Other times, uh, subconsciously we spend a fair amount of time probably in our Christian lives trying to figure out who is a Christian who's not. And it's not as though that is entirely illegitimate, right? The, the, as much as we kind of poke at the, the, um, workers in this who sort of are kind of chumps, right? They're sort of like the idiots in this. They, they don't seem to know how this happened. They propose a course of action that then the master's like, no, no, that's not, that's not gonna work. They can tell the difference, right? They can see that some are weeds and some are are weeds, and they're asking, well, what do we do about it? But at the same time he is saying like, you're not really competent to tell the difference, Jesse Schwamb: right? On Tony Arsenal: a good, uh, a good. Competent farmer could probably go out and take all the weeds out. Just like a really good, I dunno, landscape technician, I'm not sure what you would call it. I'm sure someone could come into my yard and if I paid them enough money they could probably fix this knobby grass, weed, whatever it is. Um, infestation. They could probably fix it without damaging the lawn. Like there are probably people that could do it. I am not that competent person and the workers in this are not that competent person. And I would say by and large in our Christian life, we are not that competent person to be able to identify who is and who isn't, um, a Christian who is or isn't a son of the kingdom versus a son of the devil. Jesse Schwamb: And there's sometimes like we just get history reprised, or it's like, again, the same thing microwaved over and served to you three or four times as leftovers. So it's also gonna remember like any as extension that like any attempt to like purify the church perfectly, and this has happened like donatism in the fourth century I think, or even like now, certain sectarian movements are completely misguided. Yeah. And Jesus already puts that out ahead of us here. It's almost like, do not worry what God is doing because God again is, is doing all the verbs. So here's a question I think we should discuss as we, we move toward like the top of the hour. And I think this is interesting. I don't know if you'll think it's interesting. I, I kind of have an answer, but I, I'll post it here first. [00:42:01] Visible vs. Invisible Church Jesse Schwamb: So the setup like you've just given us is two things. One, we got the visible church, we talk about the visible church. I think a lot across our conversations. Yeah. And we might summarize it, saying it's like the community of all who profess faith, maybe even the community of all who are baptized. Right. Possibly. Yeah. And it's going to include then necessarily as Jesus describes it here, true and false believers. So that's one group. Then we've got this invisible church, which as you said is the elect. Those who are known perfectly to God. So the good seed is those elect true believers. The weeds, then the weeds to me, or the tears, even better, they sound a lot like that. Second and third soils that we talked about previously to some, to some degree. I'm not, I'm not gonna lump them all in because we talked about receiving the word and it taking root, all that stuff, but to some degree, and also probably like a soil one. But here's, here's the way I would define them up and against or in contradistinction to the elector believers. They're the reprobate. They're false professors or they're children of the evil one. Now here's the question, Doni, Alex, I, I think this is very interesting. I'm trying to build this up for like more dramatic effect. 'cause now I'm worried it's not that good. The question is, I'm going to presume that this good seed, the elect, true to believers, the confidence of perseverance of the saints, the justification in sanctification of God's children is in fact though we at some points have our own doubts, it is made fully aware and known to the good seed. That is, we should have, as you and I have talked about before, the confidence that God has in fact saved his elect. So the question that on the other side is for the ta, do the tears always know that they are the tears? Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, um, I've said this before and I, I mean it, and I think it takes probably more. More discussion than we have time for tonight. And and that's fine because we can do as many episodes on this as we want to. 'cause this is our show and you can't stop us actually. Jesse Schwamb: Correct. [00:43:56] Assurance of Faith and False Assurance Tony Arsenal: Um, I've said before that assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian. Jesse Schwamb: Amen. Tony Arsenal: Right. So I, I am not one to say that the technical terminology is that assurance is not of the essence of faith. Um, I think we have to be really careful when we say that it's not, but we have to be equally careful when we say that it is. Because if we say that assurance is of the essence of faith, then what that means is someone who doesn't have assurance, doesn't have faith. Um, the reason I say that we can say that is because there's a sense that that's true, right? If you don't believe you're saved, then you don't believe you're saved and you don't trust that you're saved. But that doesn't mean that you always have full awareness of that confidence. And, you know, I think, um, I think. I think you're, you're right that, um, it may not always be, let me put it this way. I, I think that we have to consider the entire life of a Christian when we're, when we're making that analysis. And in a certain sense, like, I'm not even sure we should be making that analysis. That's kind of the point of the, the, um, the parable here, or at least one of the points. But, um, when that analysis is made, we'll, we'll channel a little bit of RC sprawl. It's not as funny when he's actually, uh, gone. I don't really mean channel RC sprawl. We will, uh, speak in the tradition of RC sprawl, um, in the final analysis, whatever that means. Whenever that is. You have to consider the whole life of a Christian, the whole life of a believer. And so there may be times in the life of a believer where they don't possess that full assurance of faith or that that full assurance is weak or that it seems to be absent. But when we look at the entire life of a believer, um, is it a life that overall is marked by a confident trust, that they are in fact children of God? Um, that a confident, uh, a confident embracing of what the spirit testifies to their spirit, to, to borrow language from Romans, I think in, in the life of a true elect Christian, um, that with the perseverance of the saints, uh, with the persistence of the saints and the preservation of the saints, um, I think that yes, those who are finally saved, those who are saved unto salvation, if you wanna phrase it that way. They finish the race, they claim the prize. Um, that assurance will be their possession in their life as a Christian. Jesse Schwamb: Right on. Tony Arsenal: All of that to say, I think there are, are, there's a good case to be made for the fact that there is also people who have false assurance, right? And this is where it takes a lot more, you know, finagling and jockeying and theological explanation of how can we know we have true assurance versus false assurance. You know, it's kinda like that question, like, does an insane person know they're insane? Well, does a false, does someone with false assurance know that their assurance is false? I don't think, I don't think so. Otherwise, it wouldn't be false assurance. Um, if they knew it wasn't real assurance, then they wouldn't have any kind of assurance. So I, I think I agree with you at least where, where I think you're going is that we do have to, we do have to make some judgements. We have to look at our own life, right? Um, there is an element of fruitfulness in this parable, right? We'll talk about that. I, I think we'll get into that next week. But it's not as though this is entirely disconnected from the parable of the soils. Both of them have a very similar kind of. End point. [00:47:20] Final Judgment and Eschatology Tony Arsenal: At the end of all things, at the end of the harvest, when the end of the age comes, and the reapers, the angels are sent, what they're gathering up are fruitful Christians, right in the parable, he sends out the, it's funny be, I love my dispensational brothers and sisters, but in this parable, like the rapture is the rapture of the unbelievers, right? The angels go out and reap the unbelievers first. The, the weeds are bundled up and thrown into the fire, and then the, the fruitful wheat is gathered into the barns. Um, there is this delineation between the fruitless weeds and the fruitful wheat or the, the grain that has borne, you know, borne fruit. That is part of what the, the outward. Elements of this parable are, so we should talk about that more, of what is this trying to get at in terms of not just the difference between weeds and wheat and how that maps up to those who are in Christ versus those who are not in Christ, but also like what is this telling us about the, the end of the age eschatology. All of that's baked in here and we haven't even scratched the surface of that Jesse Schwamb: yet. Yeah, we, we, I, and we just can't, even on this episode, probably, you're right, we're gonna have to go to two so that, I guess it's like a teaser for the next one. I'm told they're with you. It's interesting. I've been thinking about that, that question a lot. And I do like what you're saying. You know, at the end here, it's almost as if Christ is saying at the time of harvest, things become more plain, more evident In the beginning. The chutes are gonna look really, really similar, and you're gonna go in and you're gonna think you're guessing properly or using your best judgment, and you're gonna get it wrong in the end when he sends out those who are harvesting. I liken this passage here in the explanation as you read to us starting in verse 36, how there's this comparison of heat and light. And so there is the heat and light of the fiery furnace into which, as you said, all of those who are the children of the enemy will be gathered up and burned. And then there's that contrast with in verse 43, then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father. So there is like a reward that comes from the bearing of the fruit and that made evidence by a different type of heat and light. So I do struggle with this question because. It's easy to answer in some ways if we're defining the weeds in pirate or the tears in pirates as false professors typically. Let's say false professors of a nefarious kind, then it seems pretty plain that somebody, right, that the enemy has implanted certain people to stir up trouble with the intention to stir up trouble that is in fact their jam. Or they know that even if they're putting on heirs, that they're in fact play acting that the hypocrisy is purposeful and that it is part of like the missional efforts that they're doing to disrupt what God is doing in the world. So I might think of somebody like when we go, when we're looking in, um, Exodus, and we find that at least to some degree, all of Pharaoh's magicians can replicate everything that Moses is doing. Moses doing that by the power of God. But the magicians are so good and whatever means they're using, but they know, I presume they know they're not, they're not using Yahweh, they're not drawing their power or their influence from Yahweh. Tony Arsenal: Right? Jesse Schwamb: But it's so convincing to the people that Pharaoh is like, eh. Obviously I've seen that before because we just, we just did that here. Come back with your next trick until God flexes his mighty muscles in a really profound way, which cannot be replicated. And at some point there's a harvest that happens there. There's a separation between the two, those who are truly professing, the power that comes from God, the one true God, and those that are just replicating the cheap copy, the one that's just pure trickery and smoke and mirrors. So. That's an easy category. I'm with you. And I'm not saying that this is an invitation to bring the kind of judgment here that we've just spoken against. I'm not condoning this. What I do find interesting though is if the enemy is crafty, is it possible that they're always going to be forms of terror in the world that do feel that they have very strong conviction and belief about biblical things? Maybe there's, there's strong hobby horses or there are misguided directions here that pull us apart, that become distractions. Or maybe it's just even attitudes, uh, things that can be divisive, disruptive, derogatory that again, pull us away. For making the plain things, the main things and the main things, the plain things, which in some ways draws us back to like the whole purpose of you and I talking every week, which is we wanna get back to what the scripture teaches. We wanna follow the our Lord Jesus Christ very, very closely. I'm gonna clinging to the hymn of his rob as we walk through life so that we do not fall to those kind of false convictions. So I'm not, please hear me, loved ones. I'm not trying to call into question your faith as Tony just said. I am saying that there, this is kind of scary, just like we talked about. There are elements of the parables of the, of the soil that were equally scary. And so it's just in some ways to say, we gotta keep our heads not theological, swivel. We, we gotta be about the Lord's business, and we gotta be about understanding through prayer and study and communion with him, what it is that he wants to teach us in the purest way, knowing that the church itself and the world, of course, is never going to be entirely pure. At the same time, it is our responsibility to, as you already said, test for ourselves to understand what is that true gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Because some tears are going to be maybe easy to identify and with without, you know, throwing too much shade or. I was gonna say spilling the TI don't think that works here, but I'm not young anymore, so I'm trying to use or or put on blast. Yeah. I'm looking at you Mormons or Jehovah's witnesses. Like it's, it's easier there to be like, yeah, right, this is wrong. It is a false profession, but we've just gotta be careful even in our own hobby, horses not deviates into ground. I think that doesn't preclude us from being children of the light and children of the kingdom, but can still be disruptive or uh, you know, just distracting. But either way, yeah. I think what's scary to me about this is exactly what you said, Tony, is, is could it be that there are people that are very sincere about the Christian faith, but are sincerely wrong? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And what does that mean for God's elected purpose? What does that mean for our understanding of how to interact in our churches in the world? Does that make sense? Tony Arsenal: It does. And I'm not sure whether you were trying to set up the, what might be the first genuine reformed brotherhood cliffhanger, but you did. Because we're on minute 54 of a 60 minute podcast, and, uh, there's no way we're gonna get into that and not go for another 60 minutes. So, Jesse, I, I'm, I'm glad that we are taking our time. Um, I know that sometimes it's easy when you put out a schedule or you put out a sort of projected content calendar to feel like you have to stick to it. But I wanna give these parables, the time they deserve and the effort and the, uh, the, uh, study and the discussion that they deserve. And I think the questions you're posing here at the end of this episode are really, really important. And they are questions that this parable forces us to ask. Right, right. It's not as though we're just using this as a launching pad. Um. If the workers can't tell the difference between the, the seed and the, or the, the weeds and the weeds, it's reasonable to think that the weeds themselves may not be able to tell the difference. Right? The sons of the evil one, um, are probably not in this parable, are probably not the people like in the back, like doing fake devil horns, right? And like, you know, like there's, there's probably more going on that we need to unpack and, and we'll do that next week. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. So we've got some good stuff coming then, because we've gotta, this is like, do you ever remember when you were in, uh, you know, doing your undergraduate postgraduate work, you'd get like a topic or an assignment or a paper and you'd be super stoked about it and you start reaching it, be like, okay, researching it. And you'd be like, all right, I've got some good topics here. And then you get into it, you're like, oh, but I'm gonna have to talk about this. And Oh, like before I could talk, I'm gonna have to explain this. Sometimes when we get into these, as you and I have been talking, that's what it feels li

The following address, the second of two on the subject, was given by Rev. Iain H. Murray at the 1988 Banner of Truth Youth Conference.    Banner Resources on Assurance William Guthrie, The Christian's Great Interest Thomas Brooks, Heaven on Earth: Assurance in the Christian Life Thomas Brooks, Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices Thomas Brooks, The Works of Thomas Brooks, Volume III ('A Cabinet of Jewels', pg. 285–505) James Fraser, Am I a Christian?   Explore the work of the Banner of Truth: www.banneroftruth.org Subscribe to the Magazine (print/digital/both): www.banneroftruth.org/magazine Leave us your feedback or a testimony: www.speakpipe.com/magazinepodcast

The following address, one of two on the subject, was given by Rev. Iain H. Murray at the 1988 Banner of Truth Youth Conference.    Explore the work of the Banner of Truth: www.banneroftruth.org Subscribe to the Magazine (print/digital/both): www.banneroftruth.org/magazine Leave us your feedback or a testimony: www.speakpipe.com/magazinepodcast

1 John 5:11-13; Rom 4:16; Heb 12:2; Rom 10:17; John 1:12

A new MP3 sermon from The Narrated Puritan is now available on SermonAudio with the following details: Title: 4 Rules To Aid Those Who Lack Assurance of Salvation Subtitle: John Owen - Forgiveness of Sin Speaker: John Owen Broadcaster: The Narrated Puritan Event: Audiobook Date: 10/8/2025 Length: 18 min.

It is hence evident, that an assurance of being regenerate is no way previously necessary to the believing of an interest in forgiveness; so that although a man have not the former, it is, or may be, his duty to endeavor the latter. When convinced persons cried out, "What shall we do to be saved?" the answer was, "Believe, and you shall be so." "Believe in Christ, and in the remission of sin by his blood," is the first thing that convinced sinners are called unto. They are not directed first to secure their souls that they are born again, and then afterward to believe.

God doesn't want you to think or feel that you're saved; instead, He wants you to know that you're entirely and eternally saved, sealed, and secure in Christ. Your assurance of salvation shouldn't depend on your emotions, feelings, works, experiences, or people's opinions. Part 3 of this excellent teaching series effectively presents the solid foundations of assurance of salvation. Listen and be assured of your salvation!

Send us a textPsalm 91:16 – God's Promise of Long Life & SalvationPsalm 91:16 Daily Prayer – Promise of Long Life, Assurance of Salvation, Prayer for Hope, Strength in God's Faithfulness & Peace in Eternal Life Psalm 91:16 (NIV) – “With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.”Show Notes Are you searching for a Psalm 91:16 prayer for long life? Do you need a daily prayer for salvation assurance, a Bible verse for hope in eternal life, a Christian prayer for strength in God's faithfulness, or a devotional prayer for peace in His promise? This is the Daily Christian Devotional Podcast with Reverend Ben Cooper, streaming globally. Each devotion speaks into hope, salvation, eternal promise, and God's faithfulness.Psalm 91:16 is one of the most searched verses for assurance of long life and salvation. Reverend Ben Cooper prays for strength, hope, and peace in God's faithful promises.10 Prayer Points – Psalm 91:16Prayer for long life in God's promise.Prayer for assurance of salvation.Prayer for hope in eternal life.Prayer for strength in His faithfulness.Prayer for peace in God's promise.Prayer for joy in His salvation.Prayer for renewal in His Word.Prayer for gratitude for eternal life.Prayer for confidence in His promise.Prayer for courage to live fully for God.Life Application Declare: “God satisfies me with long life and shows me His salvation.”Call to Action Subscribe, share, and support at RBChristianRadio.net.Psalm 91:16 Prayer, Daily Christian Devotional Podcast, Reverend Ben Cooper, Prayer for Long Life, Christian Prayer for Salvation, Bible Verse on Eternal Life, Daily Prayer for Hope, Prayer for God's Faithfulness, Spotify Christian Devotional, Apple Christian Prayer Podcast, Global Christian PrayerSupport the showThank you for listening! For more inspiring content, visit our main site at RBChristianRadio.net. Explore our ministry services and celebrations at LifeCelebrant.net. If you'd like to support our work, you can now Buy Me a Coffee and help us keep spreading the word. Every bit makes a difference! God bless and see you in the next episode.

Assurance of salvation is the freedom from doubt, fear, worry, or anxiety about your salvation. It is possible and necessary to have settled and absolute knowledge that you are entirely and eternally saved, sealed, and secure in Christ. An accurate understanding of the nature of salvation is crucial for having assurance of salvation. Part 2 of this inspiring teaching series will help you gain a clear and proper spiritual understanding of the nature of your salvation through faith in Christ. Listen and be assured of your salvation!

Send us a textPsalm 91:14–16 Prayer for Hope & Future AssurancePsalm 91:14–16 Daily Prayer – Hope for the Future, God's Deliverance, Assurance of Salvation & Faith in Christ @335 Daily Devotional PodcastPsalm 91:14–16 (NIV) – “‘Because he loves me,' says the Lord, ‘I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name. He will call on me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble, I will deliver him and honor him. With long life I will satisfy him and show him my salvation.'”SHOW NOTES Are you searching for a Psalm 91 prayer for hope? Do you need prayer for assurance in God's promises, prayer for confidence in the future, prayer for faith in Christ's salvation, prayer for strength in waiting, and prayer for joy in God's deliverance? This is the Daily Christian Devotional Podcast with Reverend Ben Cooper, recorded in London, England, reaching believers worldwide through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and Buzzsprout.Psalm 91:14–16 offers assurance of God's presence, deliverance, and future salvation. Reverend Ben Cooper prays for hope, faith in God's promises, and confidence in His good plans.This devotion proclaims that God's future is filled with hope and salvation.10 PRAYER POINTS – PSALM 91 HOPE PRAYERPrayer for assurance in God's promises.Prayer for confidence in the future.Prayer for faith in salvation.Prayer for joy in God's deliverance.Prayer for peace in waiting seasons.Prayer for courage in uncertainty.Prayer for strength in Christ daily.Prayer for renewal of vision.Prayer for perseverance in hope.Prayer for clarity in God's purpose.LIFE APPLICATION Declare Psalm 91:14–16: “God is with me in trouble, He delivers and satisfies me with salvation.”CALL TO ACTION If this devotion lifted your hope, subscribe and share the Daily Christian Devotional Podcast. Support the mission: RB Christian Radio. Daily Christian Devotional Podcast, Daily Prayer Devotion, Reverend Ben Cooper, Psalm 91 Hope Prayer, Bible Verses about God's Promises, Prayer for Assurance in Christ, Daily Christian Devotional London England, Prayer for Confidence in the Future, Prayer for God's Deliverance, Spotify Christian Devotional Podcast, Apple Christian Prayer Podcast, Global Christian DevotionSupport the showThank you for listening! For more inspiring content, visit our main site at RBChristianRadio.net. Explore our ministry services and celebrations at LifeCelebrant.net. If you'd like to support our work, you can now Buy Me a Coffee and help us keep spreading the word. Every bit makes a difference! God bless and see you in the next episode.

God offers us salvation through faith in Christ. He also provides us with assurance of salvation in Christ. God wants you to know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are eternally saved, sealed, and secure in Christ. It is impossible to walk consistently in your realities in Christ without being fully convinced that you are totally and eternally forgiven, justified, loved, and accepted in Christ. Part 1 of this enlightening teaching series clearly explains what it means to have an assurance of salvation and why you must have an assurance of salvation. Listen and be assured of your salvation in Christ!

John's gospel and predestination? the Good Samaritan, defining the Sacrifice of the Mass? Join Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

John's gospel and predestination? the Good Samaritan, defining the Sacrifice of the Mass? Join Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

On today's episode, we had the distinct privilege of hosting our brother, Daniel Vincent of ‘The Particular Baptist Podcast'. Daniel joined us in studio, to discuss the topic of the “Assurance of Grace and Salvation”, found in Chapter 18 of our confession of faith, ‘The Second London Baptist Confession of Faith'.  We hope you are blessed by this conversation!PBHB GIVEAWAY: https://www.stayreformed.com/giveawayAdditional References:The Particular Baptist Podcast:https://www.youtube.com/@TheParticularBaptisthttps://theparticularbaptist.net/https://open.spotify.com/show/4n9E431N1u67UVhrhFU9Hq?si=5ff604b5f2f543bdThe Second London Baptist Confession (1689): https://founders.org/library-book/1689-confession/https://www.chapellibrary.org/pdf/books/lbcw.pdf?srsltid=AfmBOorAi1b6iCPqv94DjBcMhSSpcDOGwJrb9hXJSlgqxrFSgo9ofc0-Social Media:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StayReformedTwitter/X: https://twitter.com/stayreformedInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/stayreformed/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/stayreformedpodcast/Website: https://www.stayreformed.com/Email: contact@stayreformed.com

This is message 27 in The Power of God's Name John 1:9-13 Eternal life is found in believing on the name of Jesus Christ. To believe and receive Him is to be made a child of God by His miraculous work. To reject Him is to remain under condemnation. already separated from God. But for those who believe, there is not only salvation but the assurance of knowing that eternal life is theirs, secure by the promise of God. Don't forget to download our app for more from the Riverview Baptist Church. http://onelink.to/rbcapp Find more at https://riverviewbc.com/ Donate through Pushpay https://pushpay.com/pay/riverviewbc

Is assurance of salvation a privilege only for a few spiritual elites? Today, Michael Reeves joins Nathan W. Bingham to discuss how all true Christians can be assured that they are reconciled to God and what to do if assurance wanes. For your donation of any amount, receive Michael Reeves' book Right with God, plus lifetime digital access to The Fear of the Lord, his video teaching series and study guide: https://gift.renewingyourmind.org/4251/offer   Live outside the U.S. and Canada? Get lifetime digital access to The Fear of the Lord teaching series and study guide with your donation of any amount: https://www.renewingyourmind.org/global Save when you register today for Ligonier's 2026 National Conference, Crucial Questions: https://www.ligonier.org/2026   Meet Today's Teacher:   Michael Reeves is president and professor of theology at Union School of Theology in the United Kingdom.   Meet the Host:   Nathan W. Bingham is vice president of media for Ligonier Ministries, executive producer and host of Renewing Your Mind, and host of the Ask Ligonier podcast. Renewing Your Mind is a donor-supported outreach of Ligonier Ministries. Explore all of our podcasts: https://www.ligonier.org/podcasts

Responding to questions and comments from listeners about favorite Bible translations, how we can have assurance of salvation, and playing various clips from the life and ministry of John MacArthur. Visit wwutt.com for all our videos!

Assurance of Salvation Part 5 Hebrews 3

Assurance of Salvation Part 5 Hebrews 3

Assurance of Salvation Part 4 Hebrews 3

Assurance of Salvation Part 4 Hebrews 3

Begin Again - Assurance of SalvationJohn 2:23-3:16

Jim Osman unpacks 2 Peter 1:10-11 in this sermon on making election sure. He exhorts believers to pursue spiritual diligence by cultivating Christian virtues, thereby confirming their calling and election. Making election sure offers assurance of salvation, steadiness in faith, and a confident entrance into Christ's eternal kingdom. Osman's message clarifies that assurance is both possible and desirable for Christians who walk in holiness and trust in Christ alone. ★ Support this podcast ★

Join us as we look at John 15:1-6 and really look at who the "branches" are, what it means to Abide in Christ , and what it is talking about when it says the branches get thrown in the fire.

Going to heaven is a wonderful blessing. However, lacking assurance of going to heaven can be quite challenging. Join Tom as he shares biblical insights that will help the  believer maintain the assurance of a home in heaven.

Discover the powerful message of Joel 2 in this inspiring sermon from Alliance Church. Pastor Brandon explores the certainty of God's judgment, the futility of self-salvation, and the secure salvation offered through Jesus Christ. Learn how the cross reveals God's love and justice, offering blessed assurance to all who call on the Lord. Perfect for those seeking hope, peace, and a deeper understanding of the gospel. Join us to grow in faith and find rest in Christ's finished work. Subscribe for more sermons!

How can we be sure that God truly forgives us, especially when our past sins feel unforgivable? Pastor John ministers hope to the unassured.

Today's Promise: Luke 10:20 Jesus said the most important thing in this life is knowing where you will spend the next life. Just like the fog coming from your breath on a cold morning, life on this earth only lasts a moment. Compared to eternity, this life is just a vapor. You don't have to fear death. Christ has a place for you in heaven. We don't know all the details, but we know it will be in the presence of God, with no pain or death. God will wipe every tear away. The greatest blessing is knowing your name is written in heaven.

In this episode of the Shepherd Press Podcast, host Anthony Russo and guest Kelly Collier, an ACBC certified counselor and author, discuss the topic of doubting one's salvation, based on her mini-book "Help! I'm Doubting". Kelly shares her personal experiences and provides biblical insights into how teens and adults alike can navigate these doubts by turning to God's Word and believing His character. The conversation covers the differences between salvation and assurance of salvation, the importance of addressing doubts biblically, and practical ways for parents and youth workers to support teens. 01:35 Understanding Doubt & Means to Overcome It05:11 Teens and Universal Struggles16:11 The Role of Parents in Teen Discipleship21:12 Conclusion and Next StepsResources: Grab a copy of our mini-book "Help! I'm Doubting"Check out our Lifeline for Teens Mini-book Series Follow Shepherd Press on InstagramFollow Shepherd Press on Facebook

We can know that our sins are taken away and that we will be safe in the judgment, if we trust Christ in such a way that it makes us eager for his coming.

What does it mean to be chosen in Christ? In this episode of Light + Truth, John Piper turns to Ephesians 1:3–6 to show how God's election and predestination lead to our adoption as sons.

What is God's ultimate purpose in salvation? In this episode of Light + Truth, John Piper turns to Ephesians 1:3–6 to unveil how God's grace serves God's ultimate goal — the praise of his glory.

Welcome to the Grace in Focus podcast. Bob Wilkin and Sam Marr are answering a question about belief related to the literal veracity of the Bible. Can a person who does not believe the Bible is literally true be assured of salvation? What are the alternatives, possibilities and pitfalls of not believing the Bible is

In this episode, Kelsi chats with theologian Mark Mattes about his new release with 1517 Publishing, Ditching the Checklist: Assurance of Salvation for Evangelicals (and Other Sinners). The two discuss the history and inner-workings of “Decision Theology” and why this theology ultimately leads people to the question, “Am I really saved?” without a helpful or true answer. In response, Mark suggests Scripture primarily presents salvation and faith in Christ as something passive (like birth) done to us. As a result, instead of looking to our works as a means of assurance, Christians can look with certainty to God's sacramental promises and efficacious word. Mark Mattes serves as Professor of Theology and Philosophy at Grand View University in Des Moines, Iowa, and previously served parishes in Gardner, Illinois, and Antigo, Wisconsin. He holds a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago, and an M.Div from Luther Seminary. Mattes has authored Martin Luther's Theology of Beauty: A Reappraisal and The Role of Justification in Contemporary Theology, and has co-authored Imaging the Journey, co-translated Theology the Lutheran Way by Oswald Bayer, co-edited the collected papers of Gerhard Forde, A More Radical Gospel and The Preached God, and is an Associate Editor for Lutheran Quarterly.Show Notes:⁠Support 1517⁠⁠1517 Podcasts⁠⁠The 1517 Podcast Network on Apple Podcasts⁠⁠1517 on Youtube⁠More from Kelsi: ⁠Kelsi Klembara⁠ ⁠Follow Kelsi on Instagram⁠ ⁠Follow Kelsi on Twitter⁠ ⁠Kelsi's Newsletter⁠ Subscribe to the Show: ⁠Apple Podcasts⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠ ⁠Youtube⁠

When a child expresses fear that God might not let them into heaven—even after hearing the truth of the gospel—it can be deeply unsettling for a parent. In this episode, Elizabeth Urbanowicz walks through how to gently ask questions that uncover the root of those fears, points us to anchor our children's hearts in the truth of Scripture, and reminds us of the importance of ongoing prayer and trust in God's work. If your child has ever asked, “What if God doesn't let me into heaven?” this conversation is for you.

How can our faith turn from nominal to authentic? Pastor John reflects on God's power to establish and sustain belief through his promises.

This is a listener generated episode from someone who wanted to know my personal testimony in finding assurance of salvation. This is not a Bible study. It's just me sharing my story. To Support the Podcast: https://www.worldviewconversation.com/support/Become a Patronhttps://www.patreon.com/jonharrispodcastFollow Jon on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jonharris1989Follow Jon on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jonharris1989/Our Sponsors:* Check out NordVPN: https://nordvpn.com/matter* Check out TruDiagnostic and use my code HARRIS for a great deal: https://www.trudiagnostic.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/conversations-that-matter8971/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy