Podcast appearances and mentions of Christopher Marlowe

Episode 87 Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold Mark McGuinness reads and discusses ‘Dover Beach' by Matthew Arnold. https://media.blubrry.com/amouthfulofair/media.blubrry.com/amouthfulofair/content.blubrry.com/amouthfulofair/87_Dover_Beach_by_Matthew_Arnold.mp3 Poet Matthew Arnold Reading and commentary by Mark McGuinness Dover Beach By Matthew Arnold The sea is calm tonight.The tide is full, the moon lies fairUpon the straits; on the French coast the lightGleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand,Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.Come to the window, sweet is the night-air!Only, from the long line of sprayWhere the sea meets the moon-blanched land,Listen! you hear the grating roarOf pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,At their return, up the high strand,Begin, and cease, and then again begin,With tremulous cadence slow, and bringThe eternal note of sadness in. Sophocles long agoHeard it on the Aegean, and it broughtInto his mind the turbid ebb and flowOf human misery; weFind also in the sound a thought,Hearing it by this distant northern sea. The Sea of FaithWas once, too, at the full, and round earth's shoreLay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.But now I only hearIts melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,Retreating, to the breathOf the night-wind, down the vast edges drearAnd naked shingles of the world. Ah, love, let us be trueTo one another! for the world, which seemsTo lie before us like a land of dreams,So various, so beautiful, so new,Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;And we are here as on a darkling plainSwept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,Where ignorant armies clash by night. Podcast Transcript This is a magnificent and haunting poem by Matthew Arnold, an eminent Victorian poet. Written and published at the mid-point of the nineteenth century – it was probably written around 1851 and published in 1867 – it is not only a shining example of Victorian poetry at its best, but it also, and not coincidentally, embodies some of the central preoccupations of the Victorian age. The basic scenario is very simple: a man is looking out at the sea at night and thinking deep thoughts. It's something that we've all done, isn't it? The two tend to go hand-in-hand. When you're looking out into the darkness, listening to the sound of the sea, it's hard not to be thinking deep thoughts. If you've been a long time listener to this podcast, it may remind you of another poet who wrote about standing on the shore thinking deep thoughts, looking at the sea, Shakespeare, in his Sonnet 60: Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore,So do our minutes hasten to their end; Arnold's poem is not a sonnet but a poem in four verse paragraphs. They're not stanzas, because they're not regular, but if you look at the text on the website, you can clearly see it's divided into four sections. The first part is a description of the sea, as seen from Dover Beach, which is on the shore of the narrowest part of the English channel, making it the closest part of England to France: The sea is calm tonight.The tide is full, the moon lies fairUpon the straits; – on the French coast the lightGleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand,Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay. And as you can hear, the poem has a pretty regular and conventional rhythm, based on iambic metre, ti TUM, with the second syllable taking the stress in every metrical unit. But what's slightly unusual is that the lines have varying lengths. By the time we get to the third line: Upon the straits; – on the French coast the light There are five beats. There's a bit of variation in the middle of the line, but it's very recognisable as classic iambic pentameter, which has a baseline pattern going ti TUM, ti TUM, ti TUM, ti TUM, ti TUM. But before we get to the pentameter, we get two short lines: The sea is calm tonight.Only three beats; andThe tide is full, the moon lies fair – four beats. We also start to notice the rhymes: ‘tonight' and ‘light'. And we have an absolutely delightful enjambment, where a phrase spills over the end of one line into the next one: On the French coast the light,Gleams and is gone. Isn't that just fantastic? The light flashes out like a little surprise at the start of the line, just as it's a little surprise for the speaker looking out to sea. OK, once he's set the scene, he makes an invitation: Come to the window, sweet is the night-air! So if there's a window, he must be in a room. There's somebody in the room with him, and given that it's night it could well be a bedroom. So this person could be a lover. It's quite likely that this poem was written on Arnold's honeymoon, which would obviously fit this scenario. But anyway, he's inviting this person to come to the window and listen. And what does this person hear? Well, helpfully, the speaker tells us: Listen! you hear the grating roarOf pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,At their return, up the high strand,Begin, and cease, and then again begin,With tremulous cadence slow, and bringThe eternal note of sadness in. Isn't that just great? The iambic metre is continuing with some more variations, which we needn't go into. And the rhyme is coming more and more to the fore. Just about every line in this section rhymes with another line, but it doesn't have a regular pattern. Some of the rhymes are close together, some are further apart. There's only one line in this paragraph that doesn't rhyme, and that's ‘Listen! You hear the grating roar'. If this kind of shifting rhyme pattern reminds you of something you've heard before, you may be thinking all the way back to Episode 34 where we looked at Coleridge's use of floating rhymes in his magical poem ‘Kubla Khan'. And it's pretty evident that Arnold is also casting a spell, in this case to mimic the rhythm of the waves coming in and going out, as they ‘Begin, and cease, and then again begin,'. And then the wonderful last line of the paragraph, as the waves ‘bring / The eternal note of sadness in'. You know, in the heart of the Victorian Age, when the Romantics were still within living memory, poets were still allowed to do that kind of thing. Try it nowadays of course, and the Poetry Police will be round to kick your front door in at 5am and arrest you. Anyway. The next paragraph is a bit of a jump cut: Sophocles long agoHeard it on the Aegean, and it broughtInto his mind the turbid ebb and flowOf human misery; So Arnold, a classical scholar, is letting us know he knows who Sophocles, the ancient Greek playwright was. And he's establishing a continuity across time of people looking out at the sea and thinking these deep thoughts. At this point, Arnold explicitly links the sea and the thinking:                                     weFind also in the sound a thought,Hearing it by this distant northern sea. And the thought that we hear when we listen to the waves is what Arnold announces in the next verse paragraph, and he announces it with capital letters: The Sea of FaithWas once, too, at the full, and round earth's shoreLay like the folds of a bright girdle furled. And for a modern reader, I think this is the point of greatest peril for Arnold, where he's most at risk of losing us. We may be okay with ‘the eternal note of sadness', but as soon as he starts giving us the Sea of Faith, we start to brace ourselves. Is this going to turn into a horrible religious allegory, like The Pilgrim's Progress? I mean, it's a short step from the Sea of Faith to the Slough of Despond and the City of Destruction. And it doesn't help that Arnold uses the awkwardly rhyming phrase ‘a bright girdle furled' – that's not going to get past the Poetry Police, is it? But fear not; Arnold doesn't go there. What comes next is, I think, the best bit of the poem. So he says the Sea of Faith ‘was once, too, at the full', and then: But now I only hearIts melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,Retreating, to the breathOf the night-wind, down the vast edges drearAnd naked shingles of the world. Well, if you thought the eternal note of sadness was great, this tops it! It's absolutely fantastic. That line, ‘Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,' where the ‘it' is faith, the Sea of Faith. And the significance of the line is underlined by the fact that the word ‘roar' is a repetition – remember, that one line in the first section that didn't rhyme? Listen! you hear the grating roar See what Arnold did there? He left that sound hovering at the back of the mind, without a rhyme, until it came back in this section, a subtle but unmistakeable link between the ‘grating roar' of the actual sea at Dover Beach, and the ‘withdrawing roar' of the Sea of Faith: Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar, Isn't that the most Victorian line ever? It encapsulates the despair that accompanied the crisis of faith in 19th century England. This crisis was triggered by the advance of modern science – including the discoveries of fossils, evidence of mass extinction of previous species, and the theory of evolution, with Darwin's Origin of Species published in 1859, in between the writing and publication of ‘Dover Beach'. Richard Holmes, in his wonderful new biography of the young Tennyson, compares this growing awareness of the nature of life on Earth to the modern anxiety over climate change. For the Victorians, he writes, it created a ‘deep and existential terror'. One thing that makes this passage so effective is that Arnold has already cast the spell in the first verse paragraph, hypnotising us with the rhythm and rhyme, and linking it to the movement of the waves. In the second paragraph, he says, ‘we find also in the sound a thought'. And then in the third paragraph, he tells us the thought. And the thought that he attaches to this movement, which we are by now emotionally invested in, is a thought of such horror and profundity – certainly for his Victorian readers – that the retreat of the sea of faith really does feel devastating. It leaves us gazing down at the naked shingles of the world. The speaker is now imaginatively out of the bedroom and down on the beach. This is very relatable; we've all stood on the beach and watched the waves withdrawing beneath our feet and the shingle being left there. It's an incredibly vivid evocation of a pretty abstract concept. Then, in the fourth and final verse paragraph, comes a bit of a surprise: Ah, love, let us be trueTo one another! Well, I for one was not expecting that! From existential despair to an appeal to his beloved. What a delightful, romantic (with a small ‘r') response to the big-picture, existential catastrophe. And for me, it's another little echo of Shakespeare's Sonnet 60, which opens with a poet contemplating the sea and the passing of time and feeling the temptation to despair, yet also ends with an appeal to the consolation of love: And yet to times in hope my verse shall stand,blockquotePraising thy worth, despite his cruel hand. Turning back to Arnold. He says ‘let us be true / To one another'. And then he links their situation to the existential catastrophe, and says this is precisely why they should be true to each other: for the world, which seemsTo lie before us like a land of dreams,So various, so beautiful, so new,Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain; It sounds, on the face of it, a pretty unlikely justification for being true to one another in a romantic sense. But actually, this is a very modern stance towards romantic love. It's like the gleam of light that just flashed across the Channel from France – the idea of you and me against an unfeeling world, of love as redemption, or at least consolation, in a meaningless universe. In a world with ‘neither joy, nor love, nor light,' our love becomes all the more poignant and important. Of course, we could easily object that, regardless of religious faith, the world does have joy and love and light. His very declaration of love is evidence of this. But let's face it, we don't always come to poets for logical consistency, do we? And we don't have to agree with Matthew Arnold to find this passage moving; most of us have felt like this at some time when we've looked at the world in what feels like the cold light of reality. He evokes it so vividly and dramatically that I, for one, am quite prepared to go with him on this. Then we get the final three lines of the poem:We are here as on a darkling plainSwept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,Where ignorant armies clash by night. I don't know about you, but I find this a little jarring in the light of what we've just heard. We've had the magnificent description of the sea and its effect on human thought, extending that into the idea of faith receding into illusion, and settling on human love as some kind of consolation for the loss of faith. So why do we need to be transported to a windswept plain where armies are clashing and struggling? It turns out to be another classical reference, to the Greek historian Thucydides' account of the night battle of Epipolae, where the two armies were running around in the dark and some of them ended up fighting their own side in the confusion. I mean, fine, he's a classical scholar. And obviously, it's deeply meaningful to him. But to me, this feels a little bit bolted on. A lot of people love that ending, but to me, it's is not as good as some of the earlier bits, or at least it doesn't quite feel all of a piece with the imagery of the sea. But overall, it is a magnificent poem, and this is a small quibble. Stepping back, I want to have another look at the poem's form, specifically the meter, and even more specifically, the irregularity of the meter, which is quite unusual and actually quite innovative for its time. As I've said, it's in iambic meter, but it's not strictly iambic pentameter. You may recall I did a mini series on the podcast a while ago looking at the evolution of blank verse, unrhymed iambic pentameter, from Christopher Marlowe and Shakespeare's dramatic verse, then Milton's Paradise Lost and finally Wordsworth's Tintern Abbey. ‘Dover Beach' is rhymed, so it's not blank verse, but most of the techniques Arnold uses here are familiar from those other poets, with variations on the basic rhythm, sometimes switching the beats around, and using enjambment and caesura (a break or pause in the middle of the line). But, and – this is quite a big but – not every line has five beats. The lines get longer and shorter in an irregular pattern, apparently according to Arnold's instinct. And this is pretty unusual, certainly for 1851. It's not unique, we could point to bits of Tennyson or Arthur Hugh Clough for metrical experiments in a similar vein, but it's certainly not common practice. And I looked into this, to see what the critics have said about it. And it turns out the scholars are divided. In one camp, the critics say that what Arnold is doing is firmly in the iambic pentameter tradition – it's just one more variation on the pattern. But in the other camp are people who say, ‘No, this is something new; this is freer verse,' and it is anticipating free verse, the non-metrical poetry with no set line lengths that came to be the dominant verse form of the 20th century. Personally, I think you can look back to Wordsworth and see a continuity with his poetic practice. But you could equally look forward, to a link with T. S. Eliot's innovations in ‘The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock' and The Waste Land. Eliot is often described as an innovator in free verse, which is true up to a point, but a lot of his writing in that early period isn't strictly free verse; it's a kind of broken up metrical verse, where he often uses an iambic metre with long and short lines, which he varies with great intuitive skill – in a similar manner to Arnold's ‘Dover Beach'. Interestingly, when ‘Dover Beach' was first published, the reviews didn't really talk about the metre, which is ammunition for the people who say, ‘Well, this is just a kind of iambic pentameter'. Personally, I think what we have here is something like the well-known Duck-Rabbit illusion, where you can look at the same drawing and either see a duck or a rabbit, depending how you look at it. So from one angle, ‘Dover Beach' is clearly continuing the iambic pentameter tradition; from another angle, it anticipates the innovations of free verse. We can draw a line from the regular iambic pentameter of Wordsworth (writing at the turn of the 18th and 19th century) to the fractured iambic verse of Eliot at the start of the 20th century. ‘Dover Beach' is pretty well halfway between them, historically and poetically. And I don't think this is just a dry technical development. There is something going on here in terms of the poet's sense of order and disorder, faith and doubt. Wordsworth, in the regular unfolding of his blank verse, conveys his basic trust in an ordered and meaningful universe. Matthew Arnold is writing very explicitly about the breakup of faith, and we can start to see it in the breakup of the ordered iambic pentameter. By the time we get to the existential despair of Eliot's Waste Land, the meter is really falling apart, like the Waste Land Eliot describes. So overall, I think we can appreciate what a finely balanced poem Arnold has written. It's hard to categorise. You read it the first time and think, ‘Oh, right, another conventional Victorian melancholy lament'. But just when we think he's about to go overboard with the Sea of Faith, he surprises us and with that magnificent central passage. And just as he's about to give in to despair, we get that glimmering spark of love lighting up, and we think, ‘Well, maybe this is a romantic poem after all'. And maybe Arnold might look at me over his spectacles and patiently explain that actually, this is why that final metaphor of the clashing armies is exactly right. Friend and foe are running in first one direction, then another, inadvertently killing the people on the wrong side. So the simile gives us that sense of being caught in the cross-currents of a larger sweep of history. With all of that hovering in our mind, let's go over to the window once more and heed his call to listen to the sound of the Victorian sea at Dover Beach. Dover Beach By Matthew Arnold The sea is calm tonight.The tide is full, the moon lies fairUpon the straits; on the French coast the lightGleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand,Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay.Come to the window, sweet is the night-air!Only, from the long line of sprayWhere the sea meets the moon-blanched land,Listen! you hear the grating roarOf pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling,At their return, up the high strand,Begin, and cease, and then again begin,With tremulous cadence slow, and bringThe eternal note of sadness in. Sophocles long agoHeard it on the Aegean, and it broughtInto his mind the turbid ebb and flowOf human misery; weFind also in the sound a thought,Hearing it by this distant northern sea. The Sea of FaithWas once, too, at the full, and round earth's shoreLay like the folds of a bright girdle furled.But now I only hearIts melancholy, long, withdrawing roar,Retreating, to the breathOf the night-wind, down the vast edges drearAnd naked shingles of the world. Ah, love, let us be trueTo one another! for the world, which seemsTo lie before us like a land of dreams,So various, so beautiful, so new,Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light,Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain;And we are here as on a darkling plainSwept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,Where ignorant armies clash by night. Matthew Arnold Matthew Arnold was a British poet, critic, and public intellectual who was born in 1822 and died in 1888. His father was Thomas Arnold, the famed headmaster of Rugby School. Arnold studied Classics at Oxford and first became known for lyrical, melancholic poems such as ‘Dover Beach', ‘The Scholar-Gipsy', and ‘Thyrsis', that explore the loss of faith in the modern world. Appointed an inspector of schools, he travelled widely and developed strong views on culture, education, and society. His critical essays, especially Culture and Anarchy, shaped debates about the role of culture in public life. Arnold remains a central figure bridging Romanticism and early modern thought. A Mouthful of Air – the podcast This is a transcript of an episode of A Mouthful of Air – a poetry podcast hosted by Mark McGuinness. New episodes are released every other Tuesday. You can hear every episode of the podcast via Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts or your favourite app. You can have a full transcript of every new episode sent to you via email. The music and soundscapes for the show are created by Javier Weyler. Sound production is by Breaking Waves and visual identity by Irene Hoffman. A Mouthful of Air is produced by The 21st Century Creative, with support from Arts Council England via a National Lottery Project Grant. Listen to the show You can listen and subscribe to A Mouthful of Air on all the main podcast platforms Related Episodes Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold Episode 87 Dover Beach by Matthew Arnold Mark McGuinness reads and discusses ‘Dover Beach' by Matthew Arnold.Poet Matthew ArnoldReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessDover Beach By Matthew Arnold The sea is calm tonight.The tide is full, the moon lies... Recalling Brigid by Orna Ross Orna Ross reads and discusses ‘Recalling Brigid’ from Poet Town. From The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Samuel Taylor Coleridge Episode 85 From The Rime of the Ancient Mariner by Samuel Taylor Coleridge Mark McGuinness reads and discusses a passage from ‘The Rime of the Ancient Mariner' by Samuel Taylor Coleridge.Poet Samuel Taylor ColeridgeReading and commentary by Mark McGuinnessFrom...

Tuesday is the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen's birth, so today I spoke to John Mullan, professor of English Literature at UCL, author of What Matters in Jane Austen. John and I talked about how Austen's fiction would have developed if she had not died young, the innovations of Persuasion, wealth inequality in Austen, slavery and theatricals in Mansfield Park, as well as Iris Murdoch, A.S. Byatt, Patricia Beer, the Dunciad, and the Booker Prize. This was an excellent episode. My thanks to John!TranscriptHenry Oliver (00:00)Today, I am talking to John Mullen. John is a professor of English literature at University College London, and he is the author of many splendid books, including How Novels Work and the Artful Dickens. I recommend the Artful Dickens to you all. But today we are talking about Jane Austen because it's going to be her birthday in a couple of days. And John wrote What Matters in Jane Austen, which is another book I recommend to you all. John, welcome.John Mullan (00:51)It's great to be here.Henry Oliver (00:53)What do you think would have happened to Austin's fiction if she had not died young?John Mullan (00:58)Ha ha! I've been waiting all this year to be asked that question from somebody truly perspicacious. ⁓ Because it's a question I often answer even though I'm not asked it, because it's a very interesting one, I think. And also, I think it's a bit, it's answerable a little bit because there was a certain trajectory to her career. I think it's very difficult to imagine what she would have written.John Mullan (01:28)But I think there are two things which are almost certain. The first is that she would have gone on writing and that she would have written a deal more novels. And then even the possibility that there has been in the past of her being overlooked or neglected would have been closed. ⁓ And secondly, and perhaps more significantly for her, I think she would have become well known.in her own lifetime. you know, partly that's because she was already being outed, as it were, you know, of course, as ⁓ you'll know, Henry, you know, she published all the novels that were published in her lifetime were published anonymously. So even people who were who were following her career and who bought a novel like Mansfield Park, which said on the title page by the author of Sense and Sensibility and Pride and Prejudice, they knew they knew.John Mullan (02:26)were getting something by the same author, they wouldn't necessarily have known the author's name and I think that would have become, as it did with other authors who began anonymously, that would have disappeared and she would have become something of a literary celebrity I would suggest and then she would have met other authors and she'd have been invited to some London literary parties in effect and I think that would have been very interesting how that might have changed her writing.John Mullan (02:54)if it would have changed her writing as well as her life. She, like everybody else, would have met Coleridge. ⁓ I think that would have happened. She would have become a name in her own lifetime and that would have meant that her partial disappearance, I think, from sort of public consciousness in the 19th century wouldn't have happened.Henry Oliver (03:17)It's interesting to think, you know, if she had been, depending on how old she would have been, could she have read the Pickwick papers? How would she have reacted to that? Yes. Yeah. Nope.John Mullan (03:24)Ha ha ha ha ha!Yes, she would have been in her 60s, but that's not so old, speaking of somebody in their 60s. ⁓ Yes, it's a very interesting notion, isn't it? I mean, there would have been other things which happened after her premature demise, which she might have responded to. I think particularly there was a terrific fashion for before Dickens came along in the 1830s, there was a terrific fashion in the 1820s for what were called silver fork novels, which were novels of sort of high life of kind of the kind of people who knew Byron, but I mean as fictional characters. And we don't read them anymore, but they were they were quite sort of high quality, glossy products and people loved them. And I'm I like to think she might have reacted to that with her sort of with her disdain, think, her witty disdain for all aristocrats. know, nobody with a title is really any good in her novels, are they? And, you know, the nearest you get is Mr. Darcy, who is an Earl's nephew. And that's more of a problem for him than almost anything else. ⁓ She would surely have responded satirically to that fashion.Henry Oliver (04:28)Hahaha.Yes, and then we might have had a Hazlitt essay about her as well, which would have been all these lost gems. Yes. Are there ways in which persuasion was innovative that Emma was not?John Mullan (04:58)Yes, yes, yes, yes. I know, I know.⁓ gosh, all right, you're homing in on the real tricky ones. Okay, okay. ⁓ That Emma was not. Yes, I think so. I think it took, in its method, it took further what she had done in Emma.Henry Oliver (05:14)Ha ha.This is your exam today,John Mullan (05:36)which is that method of kind of we inhabit the consciousness of a character. And I I think of Jane Austen as a writer who is always reacting to her own last novel, as it were. And I think, you know, probably the Beatles were like that or Mozart was like that. think, you know, great artists often are like that, that at a certain stage, if what they're doing is so different from what everybody else has done before,they stop being influenced by anybody else. They just influence themselves. And so I think after Emma, Jane Austen had this extraordinary ⁓ method she perfected in that novel, this free indirect style of a third-person narration, which is filtered through the consciousness of a character who in Emma's case is self-deludedly wrong about almost everything. And it's...brilliantly tricksy and mischievous and elaborate use of that device which tricks even the reader quite often, certainly the first time reader. And then she got to persuasion and I think she is at least doing something new and different with that method which is there's Anne Elliot. Anne Elliot's a good person. Anne Elliot's judgment is very good. She's the most cultured and cultivated of Jane Austen's heroines. She is, as Jane Austen herself said about Anne Elliot, almost too good for me. And so what she does is she gives her a whole new vein of self-deception, which is the self-deception in the way of a good person who always wants to think things are worse than they are and who always, who, because suspicious of their own desires and motives sort of tamps them down and suppresses them. And we live in this extraordinary mind of this character who's often ignored, she's always overhearing conversations. Almost every dialogue in the novel seems to be something Anne overhears rather than takes part in. And the consciousness of a character whodoesn't want to acknowledge things in themselves which you and I might think were quite natural and reasonable and indeed in our psychotherapeutic age to be expressed from the rooftops. You still fancy this guy? Fine! Admit it to yourself. ⁓ No. So it's not repression actually, exactly. It's a sort of virtuous self-control somehow which I think lots of readers find rather masochistic about her. Henry Oliver (08:38)I find that book interesting because in Sense and Sensibility she's sort of opposed self-command with self-expression, but she doesn't do that in Persuasion. She says, no, no, I'm just going to be the courage of, no, self-command. know, Eleanor becomes the heroine.John Mullan (08:48)Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But with the odd with the odd burst of Mariannes, I was watching the I thought execrable Netflix ⁓ persuasion done about two or three years ago ⁓ with the luminous Dakota Johnson as as you know, as Anne Elliot. You could not believe her bloom had faded one little bit, I think.John Mullan (09:23)And ⁓ I don't know if you saw it, but the modus operandi rather following the lead set by that film, The Favourite, which was set in Queen Anne's reign, but adopted the Demotic English of the 21st century. similarly, this adaptation, much influenced by Fleabag, decided to deal with the challenge of Jane Austen's dialogue by simply not using it, you know, and having her speak in a completely contemporary idiom. But there were just one or two lines, very, very few from the novel, that appeared. And when they appeared, they sort of cried through the screen at you. And one of them, slightly to qualify what you've just said, was a line I'd hardly noticed before. as it was one of the few Austin lines in the programme, in the film, I really noticed it. And it was much more Marianne than Eleanor. And that's when, I don't know if you remember, and Captain Wentworth, they're in Bath. So now they are sort of used to talking to each other. And Louisa Musgrove's done her recovering from injury and gone off and got engaged to Captain Benwick, Captain Benwick. So Wentworth's a free man. And Anne is aware, becoming aware that he may be still interested in her. And there's a card party, an evening party arranged by Sir Walter Elliot. And Captain Wentworth is given an invitation, even though they used to disapprove of him because he's now a naval hero and a rich man. And Captain Wentworth and Anna making slightly awkward conversation. And Captain Wentworth says, you did not used to like cards.I mean, he realizes what he said, because what he said is, remember you eight years ago. I remember we didn't have to do cards. We did snogging and music. That's what we did. But anyway, he did not used to like cards. And he suddenly realizes what a giveaway that is. And he says something like, but then time brings many changes. And she says, she cries out, I am not so much changed.Henry Oliver (11:23)Mm. Mm, yes, yes. Yep.Yes.Cries out, yeah.John Mullan (11:50)It's absolutely electric line and that's not Eleanor is it? That's not an Eleanor-ish line. ⁓ Eleanor would say indeed time evinces such dispositions in most extraordinary ways. She would say some Johnsonian thing wouldn't she? so I don't think it's quite a return to the same territory or the same kind of psychology.Henry Oliver (12:05)That's right. Yes, yes, yeah.No, that's interesting, yeah. One of the things that happens in Persuasion is that you get this impressionistic writing. So a bit like Mrs. Elliot talking while she picks strawberries. When Lady Russell comes into Bath, you get that wonderful scene of the noises and the sounds. Is this a sort of step forward in a way? And you can think of Austen as not an evolutionary missing link as such, but she's sort of halfway between Humphrey Clinker and Mr. Jangle.Is that something that she would have sort of developed?John Mullan (12:49)I think that's quite possible. haven't really thought about it before, but you're right. think there are these, ⁓ there are especially, they're impressionistic ⁓ passages which are tied up with Anne's emotions. And there's an absolutely, I think, short, simple, but extraordinarily original one when she meets him again after eight years. And it says something like, the room was full, full of people. Mary said something and you're in the blur of it. He said all that was right, you know, and she can't hear the words, she can't hear the words and you can't hear the words and you're inside and she's even, you're even sort of looking at the floor because she's looking at the floor and in Anne's sort of consciousness, often slightly fevered despite itself, you do exactly get this sort of, ⁓ for want of a better word, blur of impressions, which is entirely unlike, isn't it, Emma's sort of ⁓ drama of inner thought, which is always assertive, argumentative, perhaps self-correcting sometimes, but nothing if not confidently articulate.John Mullan (14:17)And with Anne, it's a blur of stuff. there is a sort of perhaps a kind of inklings of a stream of consciousness method there.Henry Oliver (14:27)I think so, yeah. Why is it that Flaubert and other writers get all the credit for what Jane Austen invented?John Mullan (14:35)Join my campaign, Henry. It is so vexing. It is vexing. sometimes thought, I sometimes have thought, but perhaps this is a little xenophobic of me, that the reason that Jane Austen is too little appreciated and read in France is because then they would have to admit that Flaubertdidn't do it first, you know. ⁓Henry Oliver (14:40)It's vexing, isn't it?John Mullan (15:04)I mean, I suppose there's an answer from literary history, which is simply for various reasons, ⁓ some of them to do with what became fashionable in literary fiction, as we would now call it. Jane Austen was not very widely read or known in the 19th century. So it wasn't as if, as it were, Tolstoy was reading Jane Austen and saying, this is not up to much. He wasn't. He was reading Elizabeth Gaskell.Jane Eyre ⁓ and tons of Dickens, tons, every single word Dickens published, of course. ⁓ So Jane Austen, know, to cite an example I've just referred to, I Charlotte Bronte knew nothing of Jane Austen until George Henry Lewis, George Eliot's partner, who is carrying the torch for Jane Austen, said, you really should read some. And that's why we have her famous letter saying, it's, you know, it's commonplace and foolish things she said. But so I think the first thing to establish is she was really not very widely read. So it wasn't that people were reading it and not getting it. It was which, you know, I think there's a little bit of that with Dickens. He was very widely read and people because of that almost didn't see how innovative he was, how extraordinarily experimental. It was too weird. But they still loved it as comic or melodramatic fiction. But I think Jane Austen simply wasn't very widely read until the late 19th century. So I don't know if Flaubert read her. I would say almost certainly not. Dickens owned a set of Jane Austen, but that was amongst 350 selecting volumes of the select British novelists. Probably he never read Jane Austen. Tolstoy and you know never did, you know I bet Dostoevsky didn't, any number of great writers didn't.Henry Oliver (17:09)I find it hard to believe that Dickens didn't read her.John Mullan (17:12)Well, I don't actually, I'm afraid, because I mean the one occasion that I know of in his surviving correspondence when she's mentioned is after the publication of Little Dorrit when ⁓ his great bosom friend Forster writes to him and says, Flora Finching, that must be Miss Bates. Yes. You must have been thinking of Miss Bates.John Mullan (17:41)And he didn't write it in a sort of, you plagiarist type way, I he was saying you've varied, it's a variation upon that character and Dickens we wrote back and we have his reply absolutely denying this. Unfortunately his denial doesn't make it clear whether he knew who Miss Bates was but hadn't it been influenced or whether he simply didn't know but what he doesn't… It's the one opportunity where he could have said, well, of course I've read Emma, but that's not my sort of thing. ⁓ of course I delight in Miss Bates, but I had no idea of thinking of her when I... He has every opportunity to say something about Jane Austen and he doesn't say anything about her. He just says, no.Henry Oliver (18:29)But doesn't he elsewhere deny having read Jane Eyre? And that's just like, no one believes you, Charles.John Mullan (18:32)Yes.Well, he may deny it, but he also elsewhere admits to it. Yeah.Henry Oliver (18:39)Okay, but you know, just because he doesn't come out with it.John Mullan (18:43)No, no, it's true, but he wouldn't have been singular and not reading Jane Austen. That's what I'm saying. Yes. So it's possible to ignore her innovativeness simply by not having read her. But I do think, I mean, briefly, that there is another thing as well, which is that really until the late 20th century almost, even though she'd become a wide, hugely famous, hugely widely read and staple of sort of A levels and undergraduate courses author, her real, ⁓ her sort of experiments with form were still very rarely acknowledged. And I mean, it was only really, I think in the sort of almost 1980s, really a lot in my working lifetime that people have started saying the kind of thing you were asking about now but hang on free and direct style no forget flow bear forget Henry James I mean they're terrific but actually this woman who never met an accomplished author in her life who had no literary exchanges with fellow writersShe did it at a little table in a house in Hampshire. Just did it.Henry Oliver (20:14)Was she a Tory or an Enlightenment Liberal or something else?John Mullan (20:19)⁓ well I think the likeliest, if I had to pin my colours to a mast, I think she would be a combination of the two things you said. I think she would have been an enlightenment Tory, as it were. So I think there is some evidence that ⁓ perhaps because also I think she was probably quite reasonably devout Anglican. So there is some evidence that… She might have been conservative with a small C, but I think she was also an enlightenment person. I think she and her, especially her father and at least a couple of her brothers, you know, would have sat around reading 18th century texts and having enlightened discussions and clearly they were, you know, and they had, it's perfect, you know, absolutely hard and fast evidence, for instance, that they would have been that they were sympathetic to the abolition of slavery, that they were ⁓ sceptics about the virtues of monarchical power and clear-eyed about its corruption, that they had no, Jane Austen, as I said at the beginning of this exchange, had no great respect or admiration for the aristocratic ruling class at all. ⁓ So there's aspects of her politics which aren't conservative with a big C anyway, but I think enlightened, think, I mean I, you know, I got into all this because I loved her novels, I've almost found out about her family inadvertently because you meet scary J-Night experts at Jane Austen Society of North America conferences and if you don't know about it, they look at scants. But it is all interesting and I think her family were rather terrific actually, her immediate family. I think they were enlightened, bookish, optimistic, optimistic people who didn't sit around moaning about the state of the country or their own, you know, not having been left enough money in exes will. And...I think that they were in the broadest sense enlightened people by the standard of their times and perhaps by any standards.Henry Oliver (22:42)Is Mansfield Park about slavery?John Mullan (22:45)Not at all, no. I don't think so. I don't think so. And I think, you know, the famous little passage, for it is only a passage in which Edmund and Fanny talk about the fact it's not a direct dialogue. They are having a dialogue about the fact that they had, but Fanny had this conversation or attempt at conversation ⁓ a day or two before. And until relatively recently, nobody much commented on that passage. It doesn't mean they didn't read it or understand it, but now I have not had an interview, a conversation, a dialogue involving Mansfield Park in the last, in living memory, which hasn't mentioned it, because it's so apparently responsive to our priorities, our needs and our interests. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's a it's a parenthetic part of the novel. ⁓ And of course, there was this Edward Said article some decades ago, which became very widely known and widely read. And although I think Edward Said, you know, was a was a wonderful writer in many ways. ⁓I think he just completely misunderstands it ⁓ in a way that's rather strange for a literary critic because he says it sort of represents, you know, author's and a whole society's silence about this issue, the source of wealth for these people in provincial England being the enslavement of people the other side of the Atlantic. But of course, Jane Auster didn't have to put that bit in her novel, if she'd wanted really to remain silent, she wouldn't have put it in, would she? And the conversation is one where Edmund says, know, ⁓ you know, my father would have liked you to continue when you were asking about, yeah, and she says, but there was such terrible silence. And she's referring to the other Bertram siblings who indeed are, of course, heedless, selfish ⁓ young people who certainly will not want to know that their affluence is underwritten by, you know, the employment of slaves on a sugar plantation. But the implication, I think, of that passage is very clearly that Fanny would have, the reader of the time would have been expected to infer that Fanny shares the sympathies that Jane Austen, with her admiration, her love, she says, of Thomas Clarkson. The countries leading abolitionists would have had and that Edmund would also share them. And I think Edmund is saying something rather surprising, which I've always sort of wondered about, which is he's saying, my father would have liked to talk about it more. And what does that mean? Does that mean, my father's actually, he's one of these enlightened ones who's kind of, you know, freeing the slaves or does it mean, my father actually knows how to defend his corner? He would have beenYou know, he doesn't he doesn't feel threatened or worried about discussing it. It's not at all clear where Sir Thomas is in this, but I think it's pretty clear where Edmund and Fanny are.Henry Oliver (26:08)How seriously do you take the idea that we are supposed to disapprove of the family theatricals and that young ladies putting on plays at home is immoral?John Mullan (26:31)Well, I would, mean, perhaps I could quote what two students who were discussing exactly this issue said quite some time ago in a class where a seminar was running on Mansfield Park. And one of the students can't remember their names, I'm afraid. I can't remember their identities, so I'm safe to quote them. ⁓ They're now probably running PR companies or commercial solicitors. And one of them I would say a less perceptive student said, why the big deal about the amateur dramatics? I mean, what's Jane Austen's problem? And there was a pause and another student in the room who I would suggest was a bit more of an alpha student said, really, I'm surprised you asked that. I don't think I've ever read a novel in which I've seen characters behaving so badly as this.And I think that's the answer. The answer isn't that the amateur dramatics themselves are sort of wrong, because of course Jane Austen and her family did them. They indulged in them. ⁓ It's that it gives the opportunity, the license for appalling, mean truly appalling behaviour. I mean, Henry Crawford, you know, to cut to the chase on this, Henry Crawford is seducing a woman in front of her fiance and he enjoys it not just because he enjoys seducing women, that's what he does, but because it's in front of him and he gets an extra kick out of it. You know, he has himself after all already said earlier in the novel, oh, I much prefer an engaged woman, he has said to his sister and Mrs. Grant. Yes, of course he does. So he's doing that. Mariah and Julia are fighting over him. Mr. Rushworth, he's not behaving badly, he's just behaving like a silly arse. Mary Crawford, my goodness, what is she up to? She's up to using the amateur dramatics for her own kind of seductions whilst pretending to be sort of doing it almost unwillingly. I mean, it seems to me an elaborate, beautifully choreographed elaboration of the selfishness, sensuality and hypocrisy of almost everybody involved. And it's not because it's amateur dramatics, but amateur dramatics gives them the chance to behave so badly.Henry Oliver (29:26)Someone told me that Thomas Piketty says that Jane Austen depicts a society in which inequality of wealth is natural and morally justified. Is that true?John Mullan (29:29)Ha⁓Well, again, Thomas Piketty, I wish we had him here for a good old mud wrestle. ⁓ I would say that the problem with his analysis is the coupling of the two adjectives, natural and morally right. I think there is a strong argument that inequality is depicted as natural or at least inevitable, inescapable in Jane Austen's novels.but not morally right, as it were. In fact, not at all morally right. There is a certain, I think you could be exaggerated little and call it almost fatalism about that such inequalities. Do you remember Mr. Knightley says to Emma, in Emma, when he's admonishing her for her, you know, again, a different way, terribly bad behavior.Henry Oliver (30:38)At the picnic.John Mullan (30:39)At the picnic when she's humiliatedMiss Bates really and Mr Knightley says something like if she'd been your equal you know then it wouldn't have been so bad because she could have retaliated she could have come back but she's not and she says and he says something like I won't get the words exactly right but I can get quite close he says sinceher youth, she has sunk. And if she lives much longer, will sink further. And he doesn't say, ⁓ well, we must have a collection to do something about it, or we must have a revolution to do something about it, or if only the government would bring in better pensions, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't sort of rail against it as we feel obliged to. ⁓ He just accepts it as an inevitable part of what happens because of the bad luck of her birth, of the career that her father followed, of the fact that he died too early probably, of the fact that she herself never married and so on. That's the way it is. And Mr Knightley is, I think, a remarkably kind character, he's one of the kindest people in Jane Austen and he's always doing surreptitious kindnesses to people and you know he gives the Bates's stuff, things to eat and so on. He arranges for his carriage to carry them places but he accepts that that is the order of things. ⁓ But I, you know Henry, I don't know what you think, I think reading novels or literature perhaps more generally, but especially novels from the past, is when you're responding to your question to Mr. Piketty's quote, is quite a sort of, can be quite an interesting corrective to our own vanities, I think, because we, I mean, I'm not saying, you know, the poor are always with us, as it were, like Jesus, but... ⁓ You know, we are so ⁓ used to speaking and arguing as if any degree of poverty is in principle politically remediable, you know, and should be. And characters in Jane Austen don't think that way. And I don't think Jane Austen thought that way.Henry Oliver (33:16)Yes, yes. Yeah.The other thing I would say is that ⁓ the people who discuss Jane Austen publicly and write about her are usually middle class or on middle class incomes. And there's a kind of collective blindness to the fact that what we call Miss Bates poverty simply means that she's slipping out of the upper middle class and she will no longer have her maid.⁓ It doesn't actually mean, she'll still be living on a lot more than a factory worker, who at that time would have been living on a lot more than an agricultural worker, and who would have been living on a lot more than someone in what we would think of as destitution, or someone who was necessitous or whatever. So there's a certain extent to which I actually think what Austin is very good at showing is the... ⁓ the dynamics of a newly commercial society. So at the same time that Miss Bates is sinking, ⁓ I forget his name, but the farmer, the nice farmer, Robert Martin, he's rising. And they all, all classes meet at the drapier and class distinctions are slightly blurred by the presence of nice fabric.John Mullan (34:24)Mr. Robert Martin. Henry Oliver (34:37)And if your income comes from turnips, that's fine. You can have the same material that Emma has. And Jane Austen knows that she lives in this world of buttons and bonnets and muslins and all these new ⁓ imports and innovations. And, you know, I think Persuasion is a very good novel. ⁓ to say to Piketty, well, there's nothing natural about wealth inequality and persuasion. And it's not Miss Bates who's sinking, it's the baronet. And all these admirals are coming up and he has that very funny line, doesn't he? You're at terrible risk in the Navy that you'd be cut by a man who your father would have cut his father. And so I think actually she's not a Piketty person, but she's very clear-eyed about... quote unquote, what capitalism is doing to wealth inequality. Yeah, yeah.John Mullan (35:26)Yes, she is indeed. Indeed.Clear-eyed, I think, is just the adjective. I mean, I suppose the nearest she gets to a description. Yeah, she writes about the classes that she knows from the inside, as it were. So one could complain, people have complained. She doesn't represent what it's like to be an agricultural worker, even though agricultural labour is going on all around the communities in which her novels are set.And I mean, I think that that's a sort of rather banal objection, but there's no denying it in a way. If you think a novelist has a duty, as it were, to cover the classes and to cover the occupations, then it's not a duty that Jane Austen at all perceived. However, there is quite, there is something like, not a representation of destitution as you get in Dickens.but a representation of something inching towards poverty in Mansfield Park, which is the famous, as if Jane Austen was showing you she could do this sort of thing, which is the whole Portsmouth episode, which describes with a degree of domestic detail she never uses anywhere else in her fiction. When she's with the more affluent people, the living conditions, the food, the sheer disgustingness and tawdryness of life in the lodgings in Portsmouth where the Price family live. And of course, in a way, it's not natural because ⁓ in their particular circumstances, Lieutenant Price is an alcoholic.They've got far too many children. ⁓ He's a useless, sweary-mouthed boozer ⁓ and also had the misfortune to be wounded. ⁓ And she, his wife, Fanny's mother, is a slattern. We get told she's a slattern. And it's not quite clear if that's a word in Fanny's head or if that's Jane Austen's word. And Jane Austen...Fanny even goes so far as to think if Mrs. Norris were in charge here, and Mrs. Norris is as it were, she's the biggest sadist in all Jane Austen's fiction. She's like sort Gestapo guard monquet. If Mrs. Norris were in charge, it wouldn't be so bad here, but it's terrible. And Jane Austen even, know, she describes the color of the milk, doesn't she? The blue moats floating in the milk.She dis- and it's all through Fanny's perception. And Fanny's lived in this rather loveless grand place. And now it's a great sort of, ⁓ it's a coup d'etat. She now makes Fanny yearn for the loveless grand place, you know, because of what you were saying really, Henry, because as I would say, she's such an unsentimental writer, you know, andyou sort of think, you know, there's going to be no temptation for her to say, to show Fanny back in the loving bosom of her family, realising what hollow hearted people those Bertrams are. You know, she even describes the mark, doesn't she, that Mr Price's head, his greasy hair is left on the wall. It's terrific. And it's not destitution, but it's something like a life which must be led by a great sort of rank of British people at the time and Jane Austen can give you that, she can.Henry Oliver (39:26)Yeah, yeah. That's another very Dickensian moment. I'm not going to push this little thesis of mine too far, but the grease on the chair. It's like Mr. Jaggers in his horse hair. Yes. That's right, that's right. ⁓ Virginia Woolf said that Jane Austen is the most difficult novelist to catch in the act of greatness. Is that true?John Mullan (39:34)Yes, yes, yes, it is these details that Dickens would have noticed of course. Yes.Yes.⁓ I think it is so true. think that Virginia Woolf, she was such a true, well, I think she was a wonderful critic, actually, generally. Yeah, I think she was a wonderful critic. you know, when I've had a couple of glasses of Rioja, I've been known to say, to shocked students, ⁓ because you don't drink Rioja with students very often nowadays, but it can happen. ⁓ But she was a greater critic than novelist, you know.Henry Oliver (39:54)Yeah.Best critic of the 20th century. Yes, yes. Yeah. And also greater than Emson and all these people who get the airtime. Yes, yes.John Mullan (40:20)You know.I know, I know, but that's perhaps because she didn't have a theory or an argument, you know, and the Seven Types, I know that's to her credit, but you know, the Seven Types of Ambiguity thing is a very strong sort of argument, even if...Henry Oliver (40:31)Much to her credit.But look, if the last library was on fire and I could only save one of them, I'd let all the other critics in the 20th century burn and I'd take the common reader, wouldn't you?John Mullan (40:47)Okay. Yes, I, well, I think I agree. think she's a wonderful critic and both stringent and open. I mean, it's an extraordinary way, you know, doesn't let anybody get away with anything, but on the other hand is genuinely ready to, to find something new to, to anyway. ⁓ the thing she said about Austin, she said lots of good things about Austin and most of them are good because they're true. And the thing about… Yes, so what I would, I think what she meant was something like this, that amongst the very greatest writers, so I don't know, Shakespeare or Milton or, you know, something like that, you could take almost a line, yes? You can take a line and it's already glowing with sort of radioactive brilliance, know, and ⁓ Jane Austen, the line itself, there are wonderful sentences.)Mr. Bennett was so odd a mixture of quick parts, sarcastic humor, reserve and caprice that the experience of three and 20 years had been insufficient to make his wife understand his character. I mean, that's as good as anything in Hamlet, isn't it? So odd a mixture and there he is, the oddest mixture there's ever been. And you think he must exist, he must exist. But anyway, most lines in Jane Austen probably aren't like that and it's as if in order to ⁓ explain how brilliant she is and this is something you can do when you teach Jane Austen, makes her terrific to teach I think, you can look at any bit and if everybody's read the novel and remembers it you can look at any paragraph or almost any line of dialogue and see how wonderful it is because it will connect to so many other things. But out of context, if you see what I mean, it doesn't always have that glow of significance. And sometimes, you know, the sort of almost most innocuous phrases and lines actually have extraordinary dramatic complexity. but you've got to know what's gone on before, probably what goes on after, who's in the room listening, and so on. And so you can't just catch it, you have to explain it. ⁓ You can't just, as it were, it, as you might quote, you know, a sort of a great line of Wordsworth or something.Henry Oliver (43:49)Even the quotable bits, you know, the bit that gets used to explain free and direct style in Pride and Prejudice where she says ⁓ living in sight of their own warehouses. Even a line like that is just so much better when you've been reading the book and you know who is being ventriloquized.John Mullan (43:59)Well, my favourite one is from Pride and Prejudice is after she's read the letter Mr Darcy gives her explaining what Wickham is really like, really, for truth of their relationship and their history. And she interrogates herself. And then at the end, there's ⁓ a passage which is in a passage of narration, but which is certainly in going through Elizabeth's thoughts. And it ends, she had been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd. And I just think it's, if you've got to know Elizabeth, you just know that that payoff adjective, absurd, that's the coup de grace. Because of course, finding other people absurd is her occupation. It's what makes her so delightful. And it's what makes us complicit with her.Henry Oliver (44:48)Yeah.That's right.John Mullan (45:05)She sees how ridiculous Sir William Lucas and her sister Mary, all these people, and now she has absurded herself, as it were. So blind partial prejudice, these are all repetitions of the same thought. But only Elizabeth would end the list absurd. I think it's just terrific. But you have to have read the book just to get that. That's a whole sentence.You have to have read the book to get the sentence, don't you?Henry Oliver (45:34)Yep, indeed. ⁓ Do we love Jane Austen too much so that her contemporaries are overshadowed and they're actually these other great writers knocking around at the same time and we don't give them their due? Or is she in fact, you know, the Shakespeare to their Christopher Marlowe or however you want to.John Mullan (45:55)I think she's the Shakespeare to their Thomas Kidd or no even that's the... Yes, okay, I'm afraid that you know there are two contradictory answers to that. Yes, it does lead us to be unfair to her contemporaries certainly because they're so much less good than her. So because they're so much less good than her in a way we're not being unfair. know, I mean... because I have the profession I have, I have read a lot of novels by her immediate predecessors. I mean, people like Fanny Burnie, for instance, and her contemporaries, people like Mariah Edgeworth. And ⁓ if Jane Austen hadn't existed, they would get more airtime, I think, yes? And some of them are both Burnie and Edgeworth, for instance. ⁓ highly intelligent women who had a much more sophisticated sort of intellectual and social life than Jane Austen ⁓ and conversed with men and women of ideas and put some of those ideas in their fiction and they both wrote quite sophisticated novels and they were both more popular than Jane Austen and they both, having them for the sort of carpers and complainers, they've got all sorts of things like Mariah Regworth has some working-class people and they have political stuff in their novels and they have feminist or anti-feminist stuff in their novels and they're much more satisfying to the person who's got an essay to write in a way because they've got the social issues of the day in there a bit, certainly Mariah Regworth a lot. ⁓ So if Jane Austen hadn't come along we would show them I think more, give them more time. However, you know, I don't want to say this in a destructive way, but in a certain way, all that they wrote isn't worth one paragraph of Jane Austen, you know, in a way. So we're not wrong. I suppose the interesting case is the case of a man actually, which is Walter Scott, who sort of does overlap with Jane Austen a bit, you know, and who has published what I can't remember, two, three, even four novels by the time she dies, and I think three, and she's aware of him as a poet and I think beginning to be aware of him as a novelist. And he's the prime example of somebody who was in his own day, but for a long time afterwards, regarded as a great novelist of his day. And he's just gone. He's really, you know, you can get his books in know, Penguin and Oxford classics in the shops. I mean, it's at least in good big book shops. And it's not that he's not available, but it's a very rare person who's read more than one or even read one. I don't know if you read lots of Scott, Henry.Henry Oliver (49:07)Well, I've read some Scott and I quite like it, but I was a reactionary in my youth and I have a little flame for the Jacobite cause deep in my heart. This cannot be said of almost anyone who is alive today. 1745 means nothing to most people. The problem is that he was writing about something that has just been sort of forgotten. And so the novels, know, when Waverly takes the knee in front of the old young old pretender, whichever it is, who cares anymore? you know?John Mullan (49:40)Well, yes, but it can't just be that because he also wrote novels about Elizabeth I and Robin Hood and, you know... ⁓Henry Oliver (49:46)I do think Ivanhoe could be more popular, yeah.John Mullan (49:49)Yeah, so it's not just that this and when he wrote, for instance, when he published Old Mortality, which I think is one of his finest novels, I mean, I've read probably 10 Scott novels at nine or 10, you know, so that's only half or something of his of his output. And I haven't read one for a long time, actually. Sorry, probably seven or eight years. He wrote about some things, which even when he wrote about and published about, readers of the time couldn't have much known or cared about. mean, old mortalities about the Covenant as wars in the borderlands of Scotland in the 17th century. I mean, all those people in London who were buying it, they couldn't give a damn about that. Really, really, they couldn't. I mean, they might have recognized the postures of religious fanaticism that he describes rather well.But even then only rather distantly, I think. So I think it's not quite that. I think it's not so much ignorance now of the particular bits of history he was drawn to. I think it's that in the 19th century, historical fiction had a huge status. And it was widely believed that history was the most dignified topic for fiction and so dignified, it's what made fiction serious. So all 19th century authors had a go at it. Dickens had a go at it a couple of times, didn't he? I think it's no, yes, yes, think even Barnaby Rudge is actually, it's not just a tale of two cities. Yes, a terrific book. But generally speaking, ⁓ most Victorian novelists who did it, ⁓ they are amongst, you know, nobodyHenry Oliver (51:22)Very successfully. ⁓ a great book, great book.John Mullan (51:43)I think reads Trollope's La Vendée, you know, people who love Hardy as I do, do not rush to the trumpet major. it was a genre everybody thought was the big thing, know, war and peace after all. And then it's prestige faded. I mean, it's...returned a little bit in some ways in a sort of Hillary man, Tellish sort of way, but it had a hugely inflated status, I think, in the 19th century and that helped Scott. And Scott did, know, Scott is good at history, he's good at battles, he's terrific at landscapes, you know, the big bow wow strain as he himself described it.Henry Oliver (52:32)Are you up for a sort of quick fire round about other things than Jane Austen?John Mullan (52:43)Yes, sure, try me.Henry Oliver (52:44)Have you used any LLMs and are they good at talking about literature?John Mullan (52:49)I don't even know what an LLM is. What is it? Henry Oliver (52:51)Chat GPT. ⁓ John Mullan (53:17)⁓ God, goodness gracious, it's the work of Satan.Absolutely, I've never used one in my life. And indeed, have colleagues who've used them just to sort of see what it's like so that might help us recognise it if students are using them. And I can't even bring myself to do that, I'm afraid. But we do as a...As a department in my university, we have made some use of them purely in order to give us an idea of what they're like, so to help us sort of...Henry Oliver (53:28)You personally don't feel professionally obliged to see what it can tell you. Okay, no, that's fine. John Mullan (53:32)No, sorry.Henry Oliver (53:33)What was it like being a Booker Prize judge?heady. It was actually rather heady. Everybody talks about how it's such a slog, all those books, which is true. But when you're the Booker Prize judge, at least when I did it, you were treated as if you were somebody who was rather important. And then as you know, and that lasts for about six months. And you're sort of sent around in taxes and give nice meals and that sort of thing. And sort of have to give press conferences when you choose the shortlist. and I'm afraid my vanity was tickled by all that. And then at the moment after you've made the decision, you disappear. And the person who wins becomes important. It's a natural thing, it's good. And you realize you're not important at all.Henry Oliver (54:24)You've been teaching in universities, I think, since the 1990s.John Mullan (54:29)Yes, no earlier I fear, even earlier.Henry Oliver (54:32)What are the big changes? Is the sort of media narrative correct or is it more complicated than that?John Mullan (54:38)Well, it is more complicated, but sometimes things are true even though the Daily Telegraph says they're true, to quote George Orwell. ⁓ you know, I mean, I think in Britain, are you asking about Britain or are you asking more generally? Because I have a much more depressing view of what's happened in America in humanities departments.Henry Oliver (54:45)Well, tell us about Britain, because I think one problem is that the American story becomes the British story in a way. So what's the British story?John Mullan (55:07)Yes, yes, think that's true.Well, I think the British story is that we were in danger of falling in with the American story. The main thing that has happened, that has had a clear effect, was the introduction in a serious way, however long ago it was, 13 years or something, of tuition fees. And that's really, in my department, in my subject, that's had a major change.and it wasn't clear at first, but it's become very clear now. So ⁓ it means that the, as it were, the stance of the teachers to the taught and the taught to the teachers, both of those have changed considerably. Not just in bad ways, that's the thing. It is complicated. So for instance, I mean, you could concentrate on the good side of things, which is, think, I don't know, were you a student of English literature once?Henry Oliver (55:49)Mm-hmm.I was, I was. 2005, long time ago.John Mullan (56:07)Yes. OK.Well, I think that's not that long ago. mean, probably the change is less extreme since your day than it is since my day. But compared to when I was a student, which was the end of the 70s, beginning of the 80s, I was an undergraduate. The degree of sort of professionalism and sobriety, responsibility and diligence amongst English literature academics has improved so much.You know, you generally speaking, literature academics, they are not a load of ⁓ drunken wastrels or sort of predatory seducers or lazy, work shy, ⁓ even if they love their own research, negligent teachers or a lot of the sort of the things which even at the time I recognise as the sort of bad behaviour aspects of some academics. Most of that's just gone. It's just gone. You cannot be like that because you've got everybody's your institution is totally geared up to sort of consumer feedback and and the students, especially if you're not in Oxford or Cambridge, the students are essentially paying your salaries in a very direct way. So there have been improvements actually. ⁓ those improvements were sort of by the advocates of tuition fees, I think, and they weren't completely wrong. However, there have also been some real downsides as well. ⁓ One is simply that the students complain all the time, you know, and in our day we had lots to complain about and we never complained. Now they have much less to complain about and they complain all the time. ⁓ So, and that seems to me to have sort of weakened the relationship of trust that there should be between academics and students. But also I would say more if not optimistically, at least stoically. I've been in this game for a long time and the waves of student fashion and indignation break on the shore and then another one comes along a few years later. And as a sort of manager in my department, because I'm head of my department, I've learned to sort of play the long game.And what everybody's hysterical about one moment, one year, they will have forgotten about two or three years later. So there has been a certain, you know, there was a, you know, what, what, you know, some conservative journalists would call kind of wokery. There has been some of that. But in a way, there's always been waves of that. And the job of academics is sort of to stand up to it. and in a of calm way. Tuition fees have made it more difficult to do that I think.Henry Oliver (59:40)Yeah. Did you know A.S. Byatt? What was she like?John Mullan (59:43)I did.⁓ Well...When you got to know her, you recognized that the rather sort of haughty almost and sometimes condescending apparently, ⁓ intellectual auteur was of course a bit of a front. Well, it wasn't a front, but actually she was quite a vulnerable person, quite a sensitive and easily upset person.I mean that as a sort of compliment, not easily upset in the sense that sort of her vanity, but actually she was quite a humanly sensitive person and quite woundable. And when I sort of got to know that aspect of her, know, unsurprisingly, I found myself liking her very much more and actually not worrying so much about the apparent sort of put downs of some other writers and things and also, you know, one could never have said this while she was alive even though she often talked about it. I think she was absolutely permanently scarred by the death of her son and I think that was a, you know, who was run over when he was what 11 years old or something. He may have been 10, he may have been 12, I've forgotten, but that sort of age. I just think she was I just think she was permanently lacerated by that. And whenever I met her, she always mentioned it somehow, if we were together for any length of time.Henry Oliver (1:01:27)What's your favourite Iris Murdoch novel?John Mullan (1:01:33)I was hoping you were going to say which is the most absurd Aris Murdoch novel. ⁓ No, you're an Aris Murdoch fan, are you? Henry Oliver (1:01:38)Very much so. You don't like her work?John Mullan (1:01:59)Okay. ⁓ no, it's, as you would say, Henry, more complicated than that. I sort of like it and find it absurd. It's true. I've only read, re-read in both cases, two in the last 10 years. And that'sThat's not to my credit. And both times I thought, this is so silly. I reread the C to C and I reread a severed head. And I just found them both so silly. ⁓ I was almost, you know, I almost lost my patience with them. But I should try another. What did I used to like? Did I rather like an accidental man? I fear I did.Did I rather like the bell, which is surely ridiculous. I fear I did. Which one should I like the most?Henry Oliver (1:02:38)I like The Sea, the Sea very much. ⁓ I think The Good Apprentice is a great book. There are these, so after The Sea, the Sea, she moves into her quote unquote late phase and people don't like it, but I do like it. So The Good Apprentice and The Philosopher's Pupil I think are good books, very good books.John Mullan (1:02:40)I've not read that one, I'm afraid. Yes, I stopped at the sea to sea. I, you know, once upon a time, I'm a bit wary of it and my experience of rereading A Severed Head rather confirmed me in my wariness because rereading, if I were to reread Myris Murdoch, I'm essentially returning to my 18 year old self because I read lots of Myris Murdoch when I was 17, 18, 19 and I thought she was deep as anything. and to me she was the deep living British novelist. And I think I wasn't alone ⁓ and I feel a little bit chastened by your advocacy of her because I've also gone along with the ⁓ general readership who've slightly decided to ditch Irish Murdoch. her stock market price has sunk hugely ⁓ since her death. But perhaps that's unfair to her, I don't know. I've gone a bit, I'll try again, because I recently have reread two or three early Margaret Drabble novels and found them excellent, really excellent. And thought, ⁓ actually, I wasn't wrong to like these when I was a teenager. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:04:11)The Millstone is a great book.John Mullan (1:04:22)⁓ yes and actually yes I reread that, I reread the Garrick year, the Millstone's terrific I agree, the the Garrick year is also excellent and Jerusalem the Golden, I reread all three of them and and and thought they were very good. So so you're recommending the Philosopher's Apprentice. I'm yeah I'm conflating yes okay.Henry Oliver (1:04:31)first rate. The Good Apprentice and the Philosopher's Pupil. Yeah, yeah. I do agree with you about A Severed Head. I think that book's crazy. What do you like about Patricia Beer's poetry?John Mullan (1:04:56)⁓ I'm not sure I am a great fan of Patricia Beer's poetry really. I got the job of right, what? Yes, yes, because I was asked to and I said, I've read some of her poetry, but you know, why me? And the editor said, because we can't find anybody else to do it. So that's why I did it. And it's true that I came.Henry Oliver (1:05:02)Well, you wrote her... You wrote her dictionary of national... Yes.John Mullan (1:05:23)I came to quite like it and admire some of it because in order to write the article I read everything she'd ever published. But that was a while ago now, Henry, and I'm not sure it puts me in a position to recommend her.Henry Oliver (1:05:35)Fair enough.Why is the Dunciad the greatest unread poem in English?John Mullan (1:05:41)Is it the greatest unread one? Yes, probably, yes, yes, I think it is. Okay, it's great because, first of all, great, then unread. It's great because, well, Alexander Poet is one of the handful of poetic geniuses ever, in my opinion, in the writing in English. Absolutely genius, top shelf. ⁓Henry Oliver (1:05:46)Well, you said that once, yes.Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Top shelf, yeah.John Mullan (1:06:09)And even his most accessible poetry, however, is relatively inaccessible to today's readers, sort of needs to be taught, or at least you have to introduce people to. Even the Rape of the Lock, which is a pure delight and the nearest thing to an ABBA song he ever wrote, is pretty scary with its just densely packed elusiveness and...Henry Oliver (1:06:27)YouJohn Mullan (1:06:38)You know, and as an A level examiner once said to me, we don't set Pope for A level because it's full of irony and irony is unfair to candidates. ⁓ Which is true enough. ⁓ So Pope's already difficult. ⁓ Poetry of another age, poetry which all depends on ideas of word choice and as I said, literary allusion and The Dunciad is his most compacted, elusive, dense, complicated and bookish poems of a writer who's already dense and compact and bookish and elusive. And the Dunceyad delights in parodying, as I'm sure you know, all the sort of habits of scholarly emendation and encrustation, which turn what should be easy to approach works of literature into sort of, you know, heaps of pedantic commentary. And he parodies all that with delight. But I mean, that's quite a hard ask, isn't it? And ⁓ yeah, and I just and I think everything about the poem means that it's something you can only ever imagine coming to it through an English literature course, actually. I think it is possible to do that. I came to it through being taught it very well and, you know, through because I was committed for three years to study English literature, but it's almost inconceivable that somebody could just sort of pick it up in a bookshop and think, ⁓ this is rather good fun. I'll buy this.Henry Oliver (1:08:26)Can we end with one quick question about Jane Austen since it's her birthday? A lot of people come to her books later. A lot of people love it when they're young, but a lot of people start to love it in their 20s or 30s. And yet these novels are about being young. What's going on there?John Mullan (1:08:29)Sure, sure.Yes.I fear, no not I fear, I think that what you describe is true of many things, not just Jane Austen. You know, that there's a wonderful passage in J.M. Coetzee's novel Disgrace where the reprehensible protagonist is teaching Wordsworth's Prelude.to a group of 19 and 20 year olds. And he adores it. He's in his mid fifties. And he, whilst he's talking, is thinking different things. And what he's thinking is something that I often think actually about certain works I teach, particularly Jane Austen, which is this book is all about being young, but the young find it tedious. Only the aging.You know, youth is wasted on the young, as it were. Only the aging really get its brilliance about the experience of being young. And I think that's a sort of pattern in quite a lot of literature. So, you know, take Northanger Abbey. That seems to me to be a sort of disly teenage book in a way.It's everything and everybody's in a hurry. Everybody's in a whirl. Catherine's in a whirl all the time. She's 17 years old. And it seems to me a delightfully teenage-like book. And if you've read lots of earlier novels, mostly by women, about girls in their, you know, nice girls in their teens trying to find a husband, you know, you realize that sort ofextraordinary magical gift of sort Jane Austen's speed and sprightliness. You know, somebody said to me recently, ⁓ when Elizabeth Bennet sort of walks, but she doesn't walk, she sort of half runs across the fields. You know, not only is it socially speaking, no heroine before her would have done it, but the sort of the sprightliness with which it's described putsthe sort of ploddingness of all fiction before her to shame. And there's something like that in Northanger Abbey. It's about youthfulness and it takes on some of the qualities of the youthfulness of its heroine. know, her wonderful oscillations between folly and real insight. You know, how much she says this thing. I think to marry for money is wicked. Whoa. And you think,Well, Jane Austen doesn't exactly think that. She doesn't think Charlotte Lucas is wicked, surely. But when Catherine says that, there's something wonderful about it. There is something wonderful. You know, only a 17 year old could say it, but she does. And but I appreciate that now in my 60s. I don't think I appreciated it when I was in my teens.Henry Oliver (1:11:55)That's a lovely place to end. John Mullen, thank you very much.John Mullan (1:11:58)Thanks, it's been a delight, a delight. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk/subscribe

The History of the Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Doctor John Faustus, is the book that is the source for Christopher Marlowe's play. Chapter by chapter we will wander through the twists and turns of this story. This was a tricky episode to record, as I had made a decision to use a specific version of the text with very odd versions of place names - I lost all ability to say these places in any comprehensible way, but hopefully it isn't too weird. CW: Infanticide, anti-Catholic and Islamphobic sentiments, especially towards the end. The latter section with the problematic depiction of Islamic culture, also features a host of sexual consent issues. Chapter Twenty-Two: How Doctor Faustus made his journey through the principal and most famous lands in the world.   Our patrons also get an exploring session looking in detail at the text - join our chat here. Thunder sfx thanks to zapsplat.com Our patrons received this episode in September 2024 - approx. 14 months early. They have also already received the next 19 chapters and exploring sessions! The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Christopher Marlowe (1564-1593) was born into relative obscurity and died in mysterious circumstances at the age of 29. And yet, somehow this ambitious cobbler's son brought about a spectacular explosion of English literature, language, and culture. In this episode, Jacke talks to Stephen Greenblatt about his book Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius of Shakespeare's Greatest Rival, which illuminates both Marlowe's times and the origins and significance of his work. PLUS author Eric Marshall White (Johannes Gutenberg: A Biography in Books) stops by to discuss his choice for the last book he will ever read. Join Jacke on a trip through literary England (signup closing soon)! The History of Literature Podcast Tour is happening in May 2026! Act now to join Jacke and fellow literature fans on an eight-day journey through literary England in partnership with ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠John Shors Travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Scheduled stops include The Charles Dickens Museum, Dr. Johnson's house, Jane Austen's Bath, Tolkien's Oxford, Shakespeare's Globe Theater, and more. Find out more by emailing jackewilsonauthor@gmail.com or masahiko@johnshorstravel.com, or by contacting us through our website ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Or visit the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠History of Literature Podcast Tour itinerary⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠John Shors Travel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The music in this episode is by Gabriel Ruiz-Bernal. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠gabrielruizbernal.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Help support the show at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠patreon.com/literature ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠historyofliterature.com/donate ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. The History of Literature Podcast is a member of Lit Hub Radio and the Podglomerate Network. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠thepodglomerate.com/historyofliterature⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did William Shakespeare really write the greatest plays in the English language… or have we been sold a 400-year-old lie?For centuries, schools, universities, and institutions have defended the official story of a small-town actor with no higher education, no travel record, and barely any surviving documents — somehow becoming the most brilliant writer who ever lived.But the deeper you look, the stranger it gets.In today's episode, we dive into the Shakespeare authorship conspiracy — exploring why so many historians now question whether Shakespeare was the real author… and who the true writer might have been.We break down the three most compelling suspects:

From his possible espionage work for the Elizabethan state to his open flirtations with atheism and subversive sexual themes, the brief life of playwright Christopher Marlowe tells us much about the shadowy edges of 16th-century England. Stephen Greenblatt joins Elinor Evans to discuss the subversive, dangerous life of 'Kit', who became both a collaborator and rival of his contemporary, William Shakespeare. (Ad) Stephen Greenblatt is the author of Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius of Shakespeare's Greatest Rival, Christopher Marlowe (Bodley Head, 2025). Buy it now from Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Renaissance-Dangerous-Shakespeares-Christopher/dp/1847927130/?tag=bbchistory045-21&ascsubtag=historyextra-social-histboty. The HistoryExtra podcast is produced by the team behind BBC History Magazine. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conversamos de surgimiento de una nueva tercera cultureta "chupoptera", que encabeza Sergio del Molino en la fundacion March y que ha denominado 'Biblioteca del patio'. Carlos Alsina, Ruben Amon, Rosa Belmonte, Guillermo Altares, Sergio del Molino y Nacho Vigalondo analizan tambien 'El Renacimiento Oscuro', el libro del Premio Pulitzer Stephen Greenblatt sobre Christopher Marlowe, un dramaturgo y poeta ingles del periodo isabelino. Ademas, Nacho Vigalondo ha recomendado una serie que, esta vez si, se puede ver, 'Pluribus' de Vince Gilligan, el creador de 'Breaking Bad' y 'Better Call Saul'.

Conversamos de surgimiento de una nueva tercera cultureta "chupoptera", que encabeza Sergio del Molino en la fundacion March y que ha denominado 'Biblioteca del patio'. Carlos Alsina, Ruben Amon, Rosa Belmonte, Guillermo Altares, Sergio del Molino y Nacho Vigalondo analizan tambien 'El Renacimiento Oscuro', el libro del Premio Pulitzer Stephen Greenblatt sobre Christopher Marlowe, un dramaturgo y poeta ingles del periodo isabelino. Ademas, Nacho Vigalondo ha recomendado una serie que, esta vez si, se puede ver, 'Pluribus' de Vince Gilligan, el creador de 'Breaking Bad' y 'Better Call Saul'.

Conversamos de surgimiento de una nueva tercera cultureta "chupoptera", que encabeza Sergio del Molino en la fundacion March y que ha denominado 'Biblioteca del patio'. Carlos Alsina, Ruben Amon, Rosa Belmonte, Guillermo Altares, Sergio del Molino y Nacho Vigalondo analizan tambien 'El Renacimiento Oscuro', el libro del Premio Pulitzer Stephen Greenblatt sobre Christopher Marlowe, un dramaturgo y poeta ingles del periodo isabelino. Ademas, Nacho Vigalondo ha recomendado una serie que, esta vez si, se puede ver, 'Pluribus' de Vince Gilligan, el creador de 'Breaking Bad' y 'Better Call Saul'.

Dido, Queen of Carthage is the earliest of Christopher Marlowe's known plays, possibly written while he was still a student at Corpus Christi College in Cambridge whose college library held a copy of Virgil's Aeneid, the principal source of the story. The play was co-authored by a fellow Cambridge undergraduate Thomas Nashe, although Nashe's contribution is now thought to have been a minor one. It was acted by the "Children of Her Maiestie's Chappell " around 1587.The play tells of the tragic love affair between Dido, Queen of Carthage, and Aeneas, a survivor from the destruction of Troy who is voyaging to Italy to build a new city. When Aeneas and his men are driven ashore near Carthage he and Dido fall in love and plan to marry. But Hermes, the messenger of the Gods, reminds Aeneas of his divinely decreed mission to found Rome.This is a dramatic reading.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Dido, Queen of Carthage is the earliest of Christopher Marlowe's known plays, possibly written while he was still a student at Corpus Christi College in Cambridge whose college library held a copy of Virgil's Aeneid, the principal source of the story. The play was co-authored by a fellow Cambridge undergraduate Thomas Nashe, although Nashe's contribution is now thought to have been a minor one. It was acted by the "Children of Her Maiestie's Chappell " around 1587.The play tells of the tragic love affair between Dido, Queen of Carthage, and Aeneas, a survivor from the destruction of Troy who is voyaging to Italy to build a new city. When Aeneas and his men are driven ashore near Carthage he and Dido fall in love and plan to marry. But Hermes, the messenger of the Gods, reminds Aeneas of his divinely decreed mission to found Rome.This is a dramatic reading.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

En el magazine de esta semana os hablamos de la vida de Christopher Marlowe y hacemos una "tier list" con los personajes más sobrevalorados de la Historia". Esperemos que lo disfrutéis, que si os ha gustado nos regaléis un "like", que comentéis lo que os gusta, y os disgusta, a través de vuestra plataforma de podcast habitual y nuestras redes sociales, que podréis encontrar en la web historiados.eu

Hello! Just a quick update to remind you of our upcoming Wyrd Revels, a few guest announcements, and the possibility of some live streaming! Beyond Wyrd Revels 2025 Tuesday 21st October at 7.30pm – The Witch of Edmonton by Dekker, Ford & Rowley Wednesday 22nd October at 7.30pm – The Wise-woman of Hogston by Thomas Heywood Thursday 23rd October at 7.30pm – Thyestes by Seneca, translated by Jasper Heywood, includes post-show discussion Friday 24th October at 7.30pm – Doctor Faustus (1604 text) by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe* (*other collaborators are available) Saturday 25th October at 3pm – Doctor Faustus (1616 text) by Christopher Marlowe and Collaborators Tickets £16 / £12 concessions – except Saturday which is £18/14 for the extended show. Weekdays shows start at 7.30pm, with pre-show start at 7.20pm – Saturday show from 3pm Performing at The White Bear Theatre, Kennington - 138 Kennington Park Rd, London SE11 4DJ Discounts automatically applied for multiple show bookings, or you can purchase a full week season ticket for £55. Tickets available at https://www.ticketsource.co.uk/beyondshakespeare More info at our Revels page. Support our work on our patreon.  The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Professor Suzannah Lipscomb engages in a captivating conversation with award-winning dramatist Liz Duffy Adams about the new Royal Shakespeare production of her play Born With Teeth, which imagines a thrilling collaboration between William Shakespeare and Christopher Marlowe. Suzannah and Liz delve into the fiery dynamics of the two men's relationship and the influence of politics on their works.Shakespeare and Marlowe existed under a time of oppressive royal censorship, when displeasing the crown would mean a trip to the Tower, or worse. How did they balance this struggle for truth and creativity amid the palpable danger?Extracts from Born With Teeth by Liz Duffy Adams, performed by Ncuti Gatwa and Edward Bluemel, courtesy of Royal Shakespeare CompanyMORE:Murder of Christopher MarloweShakespeare's Son Hamnet with Maggie O'FarrellPresented by Professor Suzannah Lipscomb. The researcher is Max Wintle. Edited and produced by Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds.Not Just the Tudors is a History Hit podcastSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Short, Daring Life of Thomas Watson On this day in Tudor history, 26 September 1592, poet and translator Thomas Watson was buried at St Bartholomew-the-Less. You may not know his name, but in Elizabethan circles he was the rule-bender who wrote 18-line “sonnets”, carried letters for Sir Francis Walsingham, supplied lyrics for William Byrd, and once landed in prison after stepping between Christopher Marlowe and a blade. I'm Claire Ridgway, historian and author. In this episode you'll discover: Hekatompathia (1582): the 100-poem love sequence with 18-line “sonnets” Watson the Latinist: Petrarch, Sophocles' Antigone, Amyntas & Amintae gaudia Music & verse: his words for Byrd and Englishings of Italian madrigals The 1589 brawl with Marlowe & William Bradley: wound, death, and a self-defence pardon Final years, plague-time death, and The Tears of Fancie (1593) Where to start reading: dip into Hekatompathia for the form-breaking love poems, then try The Tears of Fancie to hear his later English voice. Question for you: Had you heard of Watson before? Which Elizabethan poet deserves more attention? If you enjoyed this “On This Day,” please like, subscribe, and ring the bell for daily Tudor & Elizabethan deep dives.     #OnThisDay #TudorHistory #Elizabethan #ThomasWatson #ChristopherMarlowe #Walsingham #WilliamByrd #RenaissancePoetry #Sonnets #LondonHistory #EarlyModern #EnglishLiterature  

The Elizabethan playwright Christopher Marlowe is known as Shakespeare's greatest rival. But in his new book Dark Renaissance, historian Stephen Greenblatt makes the case that Marlowe paved the way for Shakespeare. In today's episode, Greenblatt joins NPR's Ari Shapiro for a conversation about what made Marlowe a “lost soul,” how the playwright navigated a world of intense censorship, and evidence that points to his role as a spy.To listen to Book of the Day sponsor-free and support NPR's book coverage, sign up for Book of the Day+ at plus.npr.org/bookofthedayLearn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Christopher Marlowe and William Shakespeare were both born in 1564, rising from working-class origins finding success in the new world of the theater. But before Shakespeare transformed English drama, Marlowe had already done so—with Tamburlaine the Great and the introduction of blank verse to the stage. As Stephen Greenblatt argues in his new biography, Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius of Shakespeare's Greatest Rival, virtually everything in the Elizabethan theater can be seen as “pre- and post-Tamburlaine.” Shakespeare learned from Marlowe, borrowed from him, and even tried to outdo him. Beyond his theatrical innovation, Marlowe was a poet, provocateur, and likely spy whose turbulent life was cut tragically short. In this episode, Greenblatt explores Marlowe's audacious works, his entanglements with power and secrecy, and his lasting influence on Shakespeare and the stage. From the Shakespeare Unlimited podcast. Published September 23, 2025. © Folger Shakespeare Library. All rights reserved. This episode was produced by Matt Frassica. Garland Scott is the executive producer. It was edited by Gail Kern Paster. We had help with web production from Paola García Acuña. Leonor Fernandez edits our transcripts. Final mixing services are provided by Clean Cuts at Three Seas, Inc. Stephen Greenblatt is Cogan University Professor of the Humanities at Harvard University. He has written extensively on English Renaissance literature and acts as general editor of The Norton Anthology of English Literature and The Norton Shakespeare. He is the author of fourteen books, including The Swerve, winner of the Pulitzer Prize and National Book Award, and Will in the World, a Pulitzer Prize finalist.

Check out Cam's latest novel / audio drama here! Ask and you shall receive! Here's our analysis of The Long Walk through the evergreen lens of Christopher Marlowe's Doctor Faustus. This one's got some fascinating remixes: dozens of Faustuses, a rare foregrounding of the lesser demons, and possibly the most unfair Faustian deal we've ever seen put to screen. LINKS: Patreon, YouTube, Spotify, Instagram Feedback & Theories: secondbreakfastpod@gmail.com

Speech! Speech! Occasional scenes and speeches from plays, voted for by those you support our work. This is a speech from Edward the Second by Christopher Marlowe, recorded live at our Revels season on Tuesday 11th December 2023. With Simon Mirza Nader as Edward II. For more on Marlowe and his work - https://audioboom.com/playlists/4630963-christopher-marlowe For a playlist covering all his extant and attributed work - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLflmEwgdfKoJWwbuP1UETF3ZBhrT--Wco Our patrons received the scene within this episode in January 2024 - 20 months early! The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Bookwaves/Artwaves is produced and hosted by Richard Wolinsky. Links to assorted local theater & book venues   Prof. Stephen Greenblatt:  Christopher Marlowe, Shakespeare's Greatest Rival Stephen Greenblatt, in conversation with Richard Wolinsky about his book Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius o Shakespeare's Greatest Rival, recorded September 11, 2025. Stephen Greenblatt is a literary historian and an expert on Shakespeare and the Elizabethan era. Among his other books are  Shakespearean Negotiations: The Circulation of Social Energy in Renaissance England, Hamlet in Purgatory, Shakespeare's Freedom, and most recently Tyrant: Shakespeare in Politics. He is Cogan University Professor of the Humanities at Harvard University. In this interview, recorded the day after Charlie Kirk's assassination and the day before the capture of his murderer, when the American right wing had declared war on Democrats and “the left,” Stephen Greenblatt discusses political violence in Elizabethan times and today, along with his op-ed in the New York Times, “We Are Watching a Scientific Superpower Destroy Itself.” Guest Link The focus of the interview, though, is on the life and work of Christopher Marlowe (1564-1593), the playwright (Doctor Faustus, The Jew of Malta, Edward II), intellectual and spy, whose work influenced William Shakespeare and who could be called the Bard's “rival.”   Review of the national touring production of  “Shucked”  at the Curran Theatre through October 5, 2025. . The post September 18, 2025: Stephen Greenblatt: “Dark Renaissance,” the life and times of Christopher Marlowe appeared first on KPFA.

Stephen Greenblatt, in conversation with Richard Wolinsky about his book Dark Renaissance: The Dangerous Times and Fatal Genius o Shakespeare's Greatest Rival, recorded September 11, 2025. Stephen Greenblatt is a literary historian and an expert on Shakespeare and the Elizabethan era. Among his other books are  Shakespearean Negotiations: The Circulation of Social Energy in Renaissance England, Hamlet in Purgatory, Shakespeare's Freedom, and most recently Tyrant: Shakespeare in Politics. He is Cogan University Professor of the Humanities at Harvard University. In this interview, recorded the day after Charlie Kirk's assassination and the day before the capture of his murderer, when the American right wing had declared war on Democrats and “the left,” Stephen Greenblatt discusses political violence in Elizabethan times and today, along with his op-ed in the New York Times, “We Are Watching a Scientific Superpower Destroy Itself.” Guest Link The focus of the interview, though, is on the life and work of Christopher Marlowe (1564-1593), the playwright (Doctor Faustus, The Jew of Malta, Edward II), intellectual and spy, whose work influenced William Shakespeare and who could be called the Bard's “rival.” The post Stephen Greenblatt: “Dark Renaissance,” the life and times of Christopher Marlowe appeared first on KPFA.

 The History of the Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Doctor John Faustus, is the book that is the source for Christopher Marlowe's play. Chapter by chapter we will wander through the twists and turns of this story. Chapter Twenty-One: How Doctor Faustus was carried through the air up to the heavens to see the whole world, and how the Sky and Planets ruled, after the which he wrote a letter to his friend of the same to Leipzig, and how he went about the world in eight days.   Our patrons also get an exploring session looking in detail at the text - join our chat here. Thunder sfx thanks to zapsplat.com Our patrons received this episode in August 2024 - approx. 13 months early. They have also received the next 14 chapters and exploring sessions! The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Earlier this week, Mickey-Jo caught BORN WITH TEETH, a play by Liz Duffy Adams which brings the Elizabethan playwrights William Shakespeare and Christopher Marlowe into sizzling conversation.Starring Edward Bluemel and Ncuti Gatwa, the production, which is directed by Daniel Evans, recently opened at the Wyndham's Theatre in London.Check out this full review to find out whether Mickey-Jo enjoyed this play about the possibility of a personal and professional partnership between the two poets as much as the two performances...• 00:00 | introduction01:43 | overview / synopsis07:22 | the performances16:05 | final thoughts...About Mickey-Jo:As one of the leading voices in theatre criticism on a social platform, Mickey-Jo is pioneering a new medium for a dwindling field. His YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠MickeyJoTheatre⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ is the largest worldwide in terms of dedicated theatre criticism, where he also share features, news and interviews as well as lifestyle content for over 89,000 subscribers. With a viewership that is largely split between the US and the UK he has been fortunate enough to be able to work with PR, Marketing, and Social Media representatives for shows in New York, London, Edinburgh, Hamburg, Toronto, Sao Pãolo, and Paris. His reviews and features have also been published by WhatsOnStage, for whom he was a panelist to help curate nominees for their 2023 and 2024 Awards as well as BroadwayWorldUK, Musicals Magazine and LondonTheatre.co.uk. Instagram/TikTok/X: @MickeyJoTheatre Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dark Renaissance by Stephen Greenblatt is a riveting look into the mysterious life of the brilliant and oft-misunderstood writer, Christopher Marlowe. Stephen joins us to talk about writing for the stage, literacy in the 1500s, the freedom of the theater, living in a time of extremes and more with cohost Jenna Seery. This episode of Poured Over was hosted by Jenna Seery and mixed by Harry Liang.                     New episodes land Tuesdays and Thursdays (with occasional Saturdays) here and on your favorite podcast app. Featured Books (Episode): Dark Renaissance by Stephen Greenblatt Tamburlaine by Christopher Marlowe Dr. Faustus by Christopher Marlowe The Jew of Malta by Christopher Marlowe Edward II by Christopher Marlowe Will in the World by Stephen Greenblatt

It's time for some !Spoilers! for Act Five of Dido, Queen of Carthage by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe (discuss attribution with footnotes, please only write on one side of the paper at a time). The play was recorded at The White Bear Theatre on Tuesday 12th December 2023. If you'd like more on this play, there are exploring sessions galore on the YouTube. All our rehearsals, dress run, and rough live mix are on the patreon feed from £5 tier or above. The full cast audio adaptation edit of this will follow later in the year. The recording used throughout this episode is a live mix of the performed play – it focuses on the text as writ - though it was a live show and there are some deviations made in the heat of performance. The final release will be cleaner and a more entertaining listen. Sojourner Hazelwood-Connell – Dido Kit McGuire – Aeneas Karim Kronfli - Iarbus Alex Kapila - Anna Liza Graham - Hermes Lynsey Beauchamp - Ilioneus Sarah Blake - Nurse Keith Hill - Achates Alexandra Kataigida - Cloanthus Pamela Flanagan - Ascanius Simon Nader - Sergestus Valentina Vinci – Technical Operator The host was Robert Crighton. CW: Discussion of war trauma, deaths, and issues of consent and race, discussion of racist language, multiple suicides, fire. Our patrons received this episode in June 2025 - three months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton.

Michael and Ethan, along with special guests Maren Boucher and Benji Inniger, discuss The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus, by Christopher Marlowe. Michael and Ethan are drinking Balvenie Doublewood 12yo single malt; Benji is drinking Oban Little Bay; Maren is drinking Lagavulin 11. What a mess.In this episode:Bethany Lutheran College Production of Doctor Faustus! (Director and assistant director = our guests!)FaustbuchFaustus: The Horror FilmPhilip Melancthon might have studied with Faust, an anecdote that's fun for maybe just the four people on this podcastFaustus: The Real Guy, or, why does he matter?Disappearing side characters (and disappearing main character???)Hell is a pyramid scheme, or, Faustus as lululemon rep, or, Cornelius and Valdez are DeadDid the devil appear on-stage, or is it Puritan propaganda?Doctor FauthtuthSympathy vs pityOrigins of the Shakespeare race, irrelevant to the episode but we're keeping itCheck out Benji's music and photography!Check out Benji's OST to Bethany's production of The Spiritual Tragedy of Doctor Faustus!Next time Michael and Ethan will discuss Goethe's Faust, Parts 1 and 2! Join the discussion! Go to the Contact page and put "Scotch Talk" in the Subject line. We'd love to hear from you! And submit your homework at the Michael & Ethan in a Room with Scotch page. Join us on GoodReads!Get on our Substack!Donate to our Patreon! MUSIC & SFX: “Fools that Will Laugh on Earth,” by Benji Inniger, from the Original Soundtrack to The Spiritual Tragedy of Doctor Faustus"Kessy Swings Endless - (ID 349)" by Lobo Loco. Used by permission. "The Grim Reaper - II Presto" by Aitua. Used under an Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License. "Thinking It Over" by Lee Rosevere. Used under an Attribution License.(Links to books & products are affiliate links.)

Please welcome to our 175th episode, which is also falls on our TWO YEAR ANNIVERSARY!The playwright Liz Duffy Adams is on the podcast and today we're talking about her play - Born with Teeth, currently at Wyndham's Theatre in London, starring Ncuti Gatwa and Edward Bluemel where they play Christopher Marlowe and William Shakespeare. What was the inspiration behind this fictional (?) encounter between two literary giants? Why is it relevant to tell this story now? Tune in and find out.... See the Play:https://www.wyndhamstheatre.co.uk/Find the Play:https://www.rsc.org.uk/born-with-teethhttps://www.instagram.com/bornwithteethplay/Find Liz:https://www.instagram.com/lizduffyadams/https://lizduffyadams.com/Read Liz:https://www.dramatists.com/cgi-bin/db/multiple.asp?keysearchauthor=Liz+Duffy+Adams&indexm=25&start=1&total=all&male=all&female=allhttps://www.nickhernbooks.co.uk/born-with-teethFind Baroque:https://www.ifitaintbaroquepodcast.art/https://www.instagram.com/ifitaintbaroquepodcast/Support Baroque:https://www.patreon.com/c/Ifitaintbaroquepodcast/https://buymeacoffee.com/ifitaintbaroqueIf you would like to join Natalie on her walking tours in London with Reign of London:Saxons to Stuarts:https://www.getyourguide.com/london-l57/london-the-royal-british-kings-and-queens-walking-tour-t426011/Tudors to Windsors:https://www.getyourguide.com/london-l57/royal-london-georgian-and-windsor-monarchs-walking-tour-t481355 .For more history fodder please visit https://www.ifitaintbaroquepodcast.art/ and https://www.getyourguide.com/reign-of-london-s252243/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Who stabbed the famed playwright? And who planned it? We're stepping out of the sun and into the shadows on Not Just the Tudors, as Professor Suzannah Lipscomb investigates Tudor True Crime; a selection of history's most notorious murders and murderers.Today Suzannah is joined by Charles Nicholl to dig deeper into the mystery of the 1593 murder of the brilliant and controversial playwright Christopher Marlowe, who was stabbed to death in a house in Deptford. The official account stated it was a violent quarrel over the bill. But as Charles Nicholl explains, critical evidence about that fatal day points to Marlowe's shadowy political and espionage dealings.MORE:Dr Faustus: Pacts with the Devil >Mysterious Murder of Juan Borgia >Presented by Professor Suzannah Lipscomb. Edited and produced by Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds.Not Just the Tudors is a History Hit podcastSign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://insights.historyhit.com/history-hit-podcast-always-on Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Michael and Ethan, along with special guests Maren Boucher and Benji Inniger discuss The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor Faustus, by Christopher Marlowe. Michael and Ethan are drinking Balvenie Doublewood 12yo single malt; Benji is drinking Oban Little Bay; Maren is drinking Lagavulin 11. What a mess.In this episode:Bethany Lutheran College Production of Doctor Faustus!Good Kronk vs Bad Kronk“I think I lost the thread”: the motto of this podcastFaust as addicted to powerDid Shakespeare invent the human… or did Christopher Marlowe???Douglas Adams quoted!ShenanigansFaustus as all 7 deadly sins at onceFaustus declines, in more ways than oneMephistopheles believes in God, but Faustus doesn't believe in MephistophelesNext time Michael and Ethan and Maren and Benji will continue discussing Doctor Faustus by Christopher Marlowe! Join the discussion! Go to the Contact page and put "Scotch Talk" in the Subject line. We'd love to hear from you! And submit your homework at the Michael & Ethan in a Room with Scotch page. Join us on GoodReads!Get on our Substack!Donate to our Patreon! MUSIC & SFX: "Kessy Swings Endless - (ID 349)" by Lobo Loco. Used by permission. "The Grim Reaper - II Presto" by Aitua. Used under an Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License. "Thinking It Over" by Lee Rosevere. Used under an Attribution License.(Links to books & products are affiliate links.)

The History of the Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Doctor John Faustus, is the book that is the source for Christopher Marlowe's play. Chapter by chapter we will wander through the twists and turns of this story. Chapter Twenty: How Doctor Faustus desired to see hell, and of the manner how he was used therein   Our patrons also get an exploring session looking in detail at the text - join our chat here. Thunder sfx thanks to zapsplat.com Our patrons received this episode in June 2024 - approx. 14 months early. They have also received the next 14 chapters and exploring sessions! The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton.

It's time for some !Spoilers! for Act Four of Dido, Queen of Carthage by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe (discuss attribution with footnotes, please only write on one side of the paper at a time). The play was recorded at The White Bear Theatre on Tuesday 12th December 2023. If you'd like more on this play, there are exploring sessions galore on the YouTube. All our rehearsals, dress run, and rough live mix are on the patreon feed from £5 tier or above. The full cast audio adaptation edit of this will follow later in the year. The recording used throughout this episode is a live mix of the performed play – it's clearer than the first rough mix and focuses on the text as writ. The final release will be cleaner and a more entertaining listen. Sojourner Hazelwood-Connell – Dido Kit McGuire – Aeneas Karim Kronfli - Iarbus Alex Kapila - Anna Lynsey Beauchamp - Ilioneus Sarah Blake - Nurse Keith Hill - Achates Alexandra Kataigida - Cloanthus Emma Kemp - Cupid Simon Nader - Sergestus Valentina Vinci – Technical Operator The host was Robert Crighton. CW: Discussion of war trauma, deaths, and issues of consent and race. Our patrons received this episode in May 2025 - over three months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

One of our follow on projects from the readings of The Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Doctor John Faustus has been to try and figure out how the process of adaptation from the book to the play might have happened. Coinciding with the Marlowe Society of America's conference in 2024, we pulled together a short play looking at the writing of the opening of the play. The resulting play Faustus to Faustus - Part One: Enter a Devil by Robert Crighton, was performed at the Royal Albert Pub in Deptford on Wednesday 10th July 2024 and was recorded for the podcast for future release. And this is that release! It's not a perfect recording, as there was a lot background noise and we were pressed for time because of an imminent football match. But the audience were great and it's wonderful to archive their response. NB: The play does involve some swearing. Faustus to Faustus: A Treatise on the Procession of Text from Book to Stage, made Dialogue Wise, concerning the translated text from the German, and the play by Christopher Marlowe, compiled by Robert Crighton. With Roel Fox as Christopher Marlowe, Robert Crighton as Thomas Nashe, and Liza Graham as introduction and ballad singer. The performance was reviewed here. Part two of this ongoing series will premier on the final performance day of our Wyrd Revels, following our performance of the B-Text of Doctor Faustus by... well, you've got the idea by now. Our patrons received a rough mix of this episode in November 2024 - over eight months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Biografia, poesie e opere di Christopher Marlowe, drammaturgo, scrittore e poeta inglese tra i protagonisti del teatro Elisabettiano e autore, tra gli altri, del Faust.

In his 2014 Dante's Inferno poet and provocateur Philip Terry moved the action to Essex University. His Purgatorio (Carcanet) transports us to nearby Mersea Island, where Ted Berrigan leads our author up an artificial mountain to meet with artists Grayson Perry, Rachel Whiteread and Damien Hirst, as well as Christopher Marlowe, Boris Johnson, Lady Diana, Jean Paul Getty, Hilary Clinton, Allen Ginsberg, Samuel Beckett, Martin McGuinness, Ciaran Carson and Anoushka Shankar. Philip Terry was joined in conversation with Marina Warner at the Bookshop. Find more events at the Bookshop: https://lrb.me/eventspod

Guy Jenkin is a multi Emmy and Bafta winning writer. Along with Andy Hamilton, he co-wrote the sitcoms 'Drop the Dead Donkey' and 'Outnumbered'. He also worked on the films 'What We Did On Our Holiday', and 'The Sleeping Dictionary'.His new novel is called 'Murder Most Foul', a witty and fast-paced Tudor detective novel that plays with fact and fiction. In the middle of a deadly plague outbreak in 1593, William Shakespeare is implicated in the murder of his friend and rival, Christopher Marlowe. Teaming up with Marlowe's sister and his former flame Ann, they embark on a quest to clear his name, uncovering a web of treachery and corruption that inspires Shakespeare's future masterpieces.You can hear how much he enjoyed the research, so much so that he had to drag himself away to finally write the story. He reveals why it's normally the smallest, hardest to find details, that bring the story to life. We discuss why it's taken him so long to write a novel, after a long career in screenwriting, and how he learned to actually do it.We talk about 'Outnumbered', and why it was much more scripted than many believed, and what it taught him about writing novels.You can support the show at -patreon.com/writersroutineko-fi.com/writersroutineGet a copy of the book - uk.bookshop.org/shop/writersroutine@writerspodwritersroutine.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's time for some !Spoilers! for Act Three of Dido, Queen of Carthage by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe (discuss attribution with footnotes, please only write on one side of the paper at a time). The play was recorded at The White Bear Theatre on Tuesday 12th December 2023. If you'd like more on this play, there are exploring sessions galore on the YouTube. All our rehearsals, dress run, and rough live mix are on the patreon feed from £5 tier or above. The full cast audio adaptation edit of this will follow later in the year. The recording used throughout this episode is a live mix of the performed play – it's clearer than the first rough mix and focuses on the text as writ. The final release will be cleaner and a more entertaining listen. Sojourner Hazelwood-Connell – Dido Kit McGuire – Aeneas Karim Kronfli - Iarbus Alex Kapila - Anna Lynsey Beauchamp - Ilioneus Sarah Blake - Venus Keith Hill - Achates Alexandra Kataigida - Cloanthus Emma Kemp - Cupid Liza Graham - Juno Simon Nader - Sergestus Valentina Vinci – Technical Operator The host was Robert Crighton. CW: Discussion of war trauma, deaths, and issues of consent. Our patrons received this episode in April 2025 - over two months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

The History of the Damnable Life and Deserved Death of Doctor John Faustus, is the book that is the source for Christopher Marlowe's play. Chapter by chapter we will wander through the twists and turns of this story. Chapter Nineteen: How Doctor Faustus fell into despair with himself, for having put forth a question unto his spirit, they fell at variance, whereupon the rout of Devils appeared unto him, threatening him sharply.   Our patrons also get an exploring session looking in detail at the text - join our chat here. Thunder sfx thanks to zapsplat.com Our patrons received this episode in May 2024 - approx. 14 months early. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton.

Imagine if you could be the greatest in the world at anything, but, it would come at a cost: you'd have to sell your soul to the devil. That's the story of the show “¡Que Diablos! Fausto,” a bilingual adaptation of Christopher Marlowe's play, “Doctor Faustus.” The show is part of the 10th anniversary production for Teatro en El Verano, a collaboration between Rhode Island Latino Arts and Trinity Repertory Company. The Public's Radio Morning Host Luis Hernandez talked with Jesús Valles, the playwright who created the adaptation, and Marta Martinez, community program administrator, activist and historian at Rhode Island Latino Arts.

Join Natalie Grueninger in this engaging episode of 'Talking Tudors' as she welcomes award-winning writer and director Guy Jenkin to discuss his debut novel, 'Murder Most Foul.' Dive into the fascinating world of 16th century England and unravel the mysterious death of playwright Christopher Marlowe. Jenkin shares insights into the Tudor era's theatre scene, the inspirations behind his novel, and the enduring appeal of Shakespeare. Additionally, explore the parallels between historic and modern-day comedy writing, the detective fiction genre, and the significance of small historical details that bring the past to life. Murder Most Foul https://www.legendpress.co.uk/murder-most-foul Find out more about your host at https://www.nataliegrueninger.com Join me for 'A Weekend with Elizabeth Woodville' https://www.eventbrite.com.au/e/1406864592869?aff=oddtdtcreator Support Talking Tudors on Patreon  

It's time for some !Spoilers! for Act Two of Dido, Queen of Carthage by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe (discuss attribution with footnotes, please only write on one side of the paper at a time). The play was recorded at The White Bear Theatre on Tuesday 12th December 2023. If you'd like more on this play, there are exploring sessions galore on the YouTube. All our rehearsals, dress run, and rough live mix are on the patreon feed from £5 tier or above. The full cast audio adaptation edit of this will follow later in the year. The recording used throughout this episode is a live mix of the performed play – it's clearer than the first rough mix and focuses on the text as writ. The final release will be cleaner and a more entertaining listen. Sojourner Hazelwood-Connell – Dido Kit McGuire – Aeneas Karim Kronfli - Iarbus Alex Kapila - Anna Pamela Flanagan - Ascanius Lynsey Beauchamp - Ilioneus Sarah Blake - Venus Keith Hill - Achates Alexandra Kataigida - Cloanthus Emma Kemp - Cupid Simon Nader - Sergestus The host was Robert Crighton. CW: Discussion of war trauma, deaths, and graphic descriptions of injury detail. Our patrons received this episode a month in April 2025 - over two months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

It's time for some !Spoilers! for Act One of Dido, Queen of Carthage by Christopher Marlowe and Thomas Nashe (discuss, with footnotes, please only write on one side of the paper at a time). The play was recorded at The White Bear Theatre on Tuesday 12th December 2023. We know we said Robert would be doing briefer Spoilers episodes, but that clearly didn't happen... If you'd like more on this play, there are exploring sessions galore on the YouTube. All our rehearsals, dress run, and rough live mix are on the patreon feed from £5 tier or above. The full cast audio adaptation edit of this will follow later in the year. The recording used throughout this episode is a live mix of the performed play – it's clearer than the first rough mix and focuses on the text as writ. The final release will be cleaner and a more entertaining listen. Kit McGuire – Aeneas Karim Kronfli - Iarbus Pamela Flanagan - Ascanius Lynsey Beauchamp - Ilioneus Sarah Blake - Venus Keith Hill - Jupiter / Achates Alexandra Kataigida - Cloanthus Liza Graham – kinda Hermes Simon Nader - Sergestus The host was Robert Crighton, who was also an accidental Ganymede. Our patrons received this episode a month in March 2025 - over two months in advance. The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is supported by its patrons – become a patron and you get to choose the plays we work on next. Go to www.patreon.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you'd like to buy us a coffee at ko-fi https://ko-fi.com/beyondshakespeare - or if you want to give us some feedback, email us at admin@beyondshakespeare.org, follow us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @BeyondShakes or go to our website: https://beyondshakespeare.org You can also subscribe to our YouTube channel where (most of) our exploring sessions live - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa4pXxGZFwTX4QSaB5XNdQ The Beyond Shakespeare Podcast is hosted and produced by Robert Crighton. 

Pour bénéficier de 4 mois offerts sur votre abonnement de 2 ans à NordVPN, veuillez cliquer sur ce lien:nordvpn.com/savoir---------------Pendant des siècles, le monde entier a célébré William Shakespeare comme le plus grand dramaturge de tous les temps. Ses pièces ont traversé les âges, explorant l'âme humaine avec une finesse et une profondeur inégalées. Pourtant, un doute étrange plane encore autour de sa figure : et s'il n'avait jamais existé ?1. Le doute naît d'un silenceTout commence au XIXe siècle, dans une époque où la critique littéraire devient plus méthodique, presque scientifique. Des chercheurs se penchent sur la vie de Shakespeare… et découvrent un vide troublant. On connaît très peu de choses sur l'homme de Stratford-upon-Avon. Pas de lettres conservées, aucun manuscrit de pièce de sa main, pas de preuve directe qu'il ait jamais voyagé hors d'Angleterre, ni fréquenté une université. En revanche, les œuvres sont remplies de références érudites au droit, à la politique, à la géographie italienne ou à la cour d'Angleterre, que l'on imagine difficilement accessibles à un simple fils de gantier, formé dans une école de province.C'est ainsi qu'un courant de pensée émerge : celui des anti-stratfordiens, convaincus que William Shakespeare n'aurait été qu'un prête-nom, une sorte de figure publique derrière laquelle se cacherait un véritable génie littéraire. Parmi les suspects avancés, on trouve Francis Bacon, philosophe et juriste, Christopher Marlowe, dramaturge rival, ou même la comtesse de Pembroke, femme de lettres éduquée et influente. L'idée séduit jusqu'à des figures prestigieuses comme Mark Twain, Sigmund Freud ou Henry James, qui voient mal comment un homme si discret, sans archives, aurait pu écrire Hamlet, Le Roi Lear ou Othello.Mais ce doute, aussi séduisant soit-il, résiste mal aux preuves historiques.2. Les preuves de son existenceCar William Shakespeare, loin d'être un fantôme, a laissé de nombreuses traces dans les archives. Des actes de propriété, des contrats, des témoignages contemporains — notamment celui du poète Ben Jonson, qui le connaissait personnellement — confirment qu'un certain William Shakespeare était acteur, auteur et homme d'affaires à Londres. Plusieurs pièces publiées de son vivant portent son nom. Il possédait même un théâtre, le Globe, où ses œuvres étaient jouées avec succès.3. Le testament : une preuve irréfutableMais la preuve la plus tangible, la plus intime aussi, reste son testament, rédigé peu avant sa mort en 1616. Ce document de trois pages, soigneusement conservé aux Archives nationales de Londres, porte sa signature à trois reprises. On y découvre un homme soucieux de ses proches, léguant ses biens, mentionnant son épouse Anne Hathaway, ses filles, et ses collègues de théâtre. L'existence même de ce testament contredit l'idée d'un mythe vide : il y avait bien un homme derrière le nom.Fait notable : ce testament vient d'être reproduit en 100 exemplaires fac-similés, une première, permettant au public et aux chercheurs d'approcher ce texte fondateur de plus près.En conclusionLa controverse sur l'identité de Shakespeare dit beaucoup sur notre fascination pour le mystère et le génie. Mais les faits, eux, sont têtus. Grâce à des documents officiels, à des témoignages directs — et surtout à ce testament signé de sa main, récemment remis en lumière —, il ne fait plus de doute que William Shakespeare a bel et bien existé. Et que le plus grand auteur anglais était aussi un homme bien réel. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

This episode dives into the weird and wacky world of Christopher Marlowe---or does it?Actors:James Lucas--Sir Toby Belch, Dogberry, Lear's FoolDoll PIccotto--Maria, Verges, King Lear

Professor Suzannah Lipscomb steps into the electrifying world of Elizabethan theatre to unravel the dark allure of Christopher Marlowe's Dr. Faustus, a work that would forever change English drama. Together with Professor Emma Smith, she decodes the Renaissance masterpiece that dared to humanize the devil and challenge religious orthodoxy. How did Dr. Faustus become a cultural phenomenon that still echoes through history via Mary Shelley, John Grisham and James Bond?Presented by Professor Suzannah Lipscomb. The researcher is Alice Smith, audio editor is Amy Haddow and the producer is Rob Weinberg. The senior producer is Anne-Marie Luff.All music courtesy of Epidemic Sounds.Not Just the Tudors is a History Hit podcast.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe. You can take part in our listener survey here: https://uk.surveymonkey.com/r/6FFT7MK

Christopher Marlowe was the star writer of the 1580s.   The Elizabethans flocked to his plays.   But Kitt's life was shrouded in mystery. Was he a secret agent? A Catholic spy? A double agent for Queen Elizabeth's government.  There is evidence that he was heretical atheist.  And he may have been England's first gay poet   Hear how this ended with a murder mystery on May 30, 1593.

Sean Baker made Oscar history, becoming the first person to win four Academy Awards for directing, editing, writing and producing a single film, Anora. Larushka Ivan-Zadeh joins Samira to look at this year's Oscar winners and what they say about cinema today. The RSC's co-artistic director Daniel Evans discusses playing Christopher Marlowe's Edward II. Filmmaker Laura Carreira talks about her award-winning debut feature On Falling, about the social isolation and the injustices faced by a Portuguese woman working in the gig economy in Scotland. And, we look back at the work of late artist Jack Vettriano with Rachel Campbell Johnson. Presenter: Samira Ahmed Producer: Ruth Watts

This week, Michael Caines interviews the men behind the Royal Shakespeare Company's thrilling new production of Christopher Marlowe's Edward II; and Nat Segnit finds Pico Iyer's journeys to a Californian monastery a welcome retreat from the world.'Edward II', by Christopher Marlowe, Swan Theatre, Stratford-upon-Avon, until April 5 2025'Learning from Silence: Lessons from More Than 100 Retreats', by Pico IyerProduced by Charlotte Pardy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does it mean to be called an “upstart crow”? In 1592, a pamphlet titled Greene's groats-worth of witte described William Shakespeare, in the first allusion to him as a playwright, with this phrase, calling him “an upstart crow, beautified with our feathers.” This phrase sparked centuries of speculation. As Darren Freebury-Jones explores in his book, Shakespeare's borrowed feathers: How early modern playwrights shaped the world's greatest writer, Shakespeare's so-called borrowing was neither unusual for the time nor a weakness—it was ultimately a testament to his genius. Exploring how Shakespeare navigated a competitive theatrical scene in early modern England, Freebury-Jones reveals the ways in which Shakespeare reshaped the works of contemporaries like John Lyly, Thomas Kyd, and Christopher Marlowe into something distinctly his own. By combining traditional literary analysis with cutting-edge digital tools, he uncovers echoes of Lyly's witty comedies and gender-bending heroines, Kyd's tragic revenge dramas, and Marlowe's powerful verse in Shakespeare's early plays. This episode sheds light on Shakespeare's role as a responsive and innovative playwright deeply embedded in the early modern theatrical community. Listen in to learn more about the influences on the “upstart crow” as he created a canon of timeless works. Dr Darren Freebury-Jones is author of the monographs: Reading Robert Greene: Recovering Shakespeare's Rival (Routledge), Shakespeare's Tutor: The Influence of Thomas Kyd (Manchester University Press), and Shakespeare's Borrowed Feathers (Manchester University Press). He is Associate Editor for the first critical edition of The Collected Works of Thomas Kyd since 1901 (Boydell and Brewer). He has also investigated the boundaries of John Marston's dramatic corpus as part of the Oxford Marston project and is General Editor for The Collected Plays of Robert Greene (Edinburgh University Press). His findings on the works of Shakespeare and his contemporaries have been discussed in national newspapers such as The Times, The Guardian, The Telegraph, The Observer, and The Independent as well as BBC Radio. His debut poetry collection, Rambling (Broken Sleep Books), was published in 2024. In 2023 he was elected a Fellow of the Royal Historical Society in recognition of his contributions to historical scholarship.

A double feature involving famous poets. First — In the late 1800s, Fremont native William Zeigler offered a theory that took England by storm, suggesting that the work of William Shakespeare was secretly the product of a contemporary, Christopher Marlowe. Second - The story of Garrettsville native Hart Crane, a beloved poet who became one of the literary greats of his generation, until personal struggles led him to jump from a ship into the ocean. www.ohiomysteries.com feedback@ohiomysteries.com www.patreon.com/ohiomysteries www.twitter.com/mysteriesohio www.facebook.com/ohiomysteries Additional music: New Horizon - Aderin; Audionautix- The Great Unknown; The Great Phospher- Daniel Birch Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week, we chat to the historical fiction author and academic, Steven Veerapen. He's best known for his Anthony Blanke series, set in the Tudor period, about the son of a black trumpeter, John Blanke, who was a real figure in the court of King Henry VIII. There's 'Of Blood Descended' and 'Of Judgement Fallen', which are out in print and just released as audiobooks. He's also written 3 in the 'Simon Danforth' series, and a few about the playwright Christopher Marlowe as a spy.We talk about the balance of writing academia and finding time for novels. Also about the morbid curiosity which gives him ideas, and why we all love the Tudors.You can hear about his sparse writing environment, how he plans a busy year, and what Tudor fiction needs to have in it.Get a copy of the book at uk.bookshop.com/shop/writersroutine@writerspodwritersroutine.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.