Podcast appearances and mentions of Gary Fisher

This week, Si and Dan dive deep into Levi's GranFondo – an event renowned for its stunning Californian scenery but equally infamous for its challenging route. We explore the unique dynamic of this event, which successfully blends a mass participation ride with a fiercely contested, unsupported race, truly taking cycling back to its basics! Is this the ultimate test? Alongside our main talking point, we've got a packed show covering the latest cycling news, tech, and more! Including a new 24-hour indoor cycling record, Marianne Vos' incredible lifetime contract, concerns over potential US cycling tariffs, Gary Fisher's backing of a new eBike brand, the sleek new Colnago V5RS, and Zwift's adjustable cranks. Plus, we announce competition winners, launch a new competition for a Redshift Cockpit Bundle, pay tribute to the legendary Barry Hoban, and bring you your favourite segments Enter the Redshift competition

Esta semana tenemos mucho enduro con todos tipos de bici bastante diferentes pero a su vez creadas para lo mismo. Por un lado la Focus SAM2, una e-bike con cuadro de aluminio y sistema de asistencia Bosch Performance Line CX con baterías de 600 Wh y 800 Wh; por otro la Pivot Firebird, una enduro con cuadro de fibra de carbono, muchas posibilidades de personalización con varias configuraciones de la geometría y comportamiento del amortiguador trasero. Pero no terminamos ahí las novedades, FOX sigue presentando nuevos productos con sus amortiguadores “gravity” renovados, el X2 y el DHX2, que ahora cuentan con un diseño monotubo para mejorar su comportamiento; RockShox ha renovado su tija telescópica Reverb AXS, con un nuevo emplazamiento de la batería y más recorridos disponibles; Evoc nos ha presentado nuevas protecciones (coderas y rodilleras) con tecnología Liteshield Flex; ; tenemos una edición (MUY) especial de la Yeti ASR 40th aniversario... Y además dos noticias “diferentes” como el anuncio de un mito como Gary Fisher de que tiene unas e-bikes de carga rápida preparadas para ser presentadas, y la Ampler Nova, una e-bike que puedes cargar con un USB-C nos han dado pie a comentar los retos que tienen en muchos casos las e-bikes y la situación que se puede derivar de los famosos aranceles que está imponiendo el presidente americano. Aunque esto último lo hacemos simplemente como comentarios de lo que estamos viendo en el mundo de la bici y no como expertos en economía (que no somos). Tienes más información en los siguientes enlaces: Primeras Pedaladas Focus Sam2: https://www.mtbpro.es/afondo/primeras-pedaladas-con-la-nueva-focus-sam2 Primeras Pedaladas Pivot Firebird: https://www.mtbpro.es/afondo/primeras-pedaladas-nueva-pivot-firebird Nuevos amortiguadores FOX X2 y DHX2: https://www.mtbpro.es/actualidad/nuevos-amortiguadores-fox-x2-y-dhx2 Nueva tija RockShox Reverb AXS: https://www.mtbpro.es/actualidad/nueva-rockshox-reverb-axs-diseno-actualizado-mas-recorrido-y-menor-precio Nuevas protecciones de EVOC: https://www.mtbpro.es/actualidad/evoc-presenta-nuevas-protecciones-para-codos-y-rodillas-con-tecnologia-liteshield-flex Yeti ASR 40 th aniversario: https://www.mtbpro.es/actualidad/yeti-asr-40th-solo-200-unidades-numeradas-de-una-autentica-retro-dream-bike Gary Fisher y su marca de e-bikes de carga súper rápida: https://www.mtbpro.es/actualidad/uno-de-los-padres-del-mtb-lanza-una-nueva-marca-de-e-bikes-de-carga-super-rapida Con un cargador USB-C ya puedes cargar esta e-bike: https://www.maillotmag.com/actualidad/si-tienes-un-cargador-usb-c-ya-puedes-cargar-la-bateria-de-esta-e-bike

Gary Fisher -- Gideon

Gary Fisher -- Jonah

Gary Fisher -- Joseph

Gary Fisher -- Jacob and Esau

Rescatamos el audio del último vídeo de nuestro canal #ClassicMTB para contaros un episodio fundamental y fundacional para la historia del Mountain Bike. Se trata de las míticas carreras Repack que empezaron a celebrarse en California, en el condado de Marin, en la década de los 70. Es la historia de pioneros como Charlie Kelly, Gary Fisher, Alex Bonds, Tom Ritchey, Joe Breeze o Mike Sinyard. Pero conocer todo esto no sería posible si no fuera por personas e instituciones como Wende Cragg, el Marin Museum of Bicycling o la "biblia" escrita por Charlie Kelly: Fat Tyre Flyer. Vídeo completo en nuestro canal de YouTube: https://youtu.be/xCnOuHAMRSU?si=EsPzMhaaMng0kVmj

Welcome to our end of year Listener Hangout Show. This is the annual episode where we invite several of our supporters to appear alongside us on the show. On this episode we ask our listeners about their use of generative AI and passkeys. Plus we debate which streaming service are the ones we can't live without!Starring Tom Merritt, Sarah Lane, Roger Chang, Joe, Mark Bussell Jr., Andrew Tzakis, Todd Belcher, Gary Fisher, Howard Yermish.Link to the Show Notes.

Welcome to our end of year Listener Hangout Show. This is the annual episode where we invite several of our supporters to appear alongside us on the show. On this episode we ask our listeners about their use of generative AI and passkeys. Plus we debate which streaming service are the ones we can't live without! Starring Tom Merritt, Sarah Lane, Roger Chang, Joe, Mark Bussell Jr., Andrew Tzakis, Todd Belcher, Gary Fisher, Howard Yermish. To read the show notes in a separate page click here! Support the show on Patreon by becoming a supporter!

Worship led by Gary Fisher, accompanied by Amelia Pascoe and Pastor Lance Rubringer, with Kara Strong on piano

Worship led by Gary Fisher, accompanied by Amelia Pascoe and Pastor Lance Rubringer, with Kara Strong on piano

Episode Page: BridgetonBeacon.com/bacc-awards-2024The Bridgton Area Chamber of Commerce will present Business and Community Hero Awards on October 30th, 2024. The awards recognize business and community leaders who have demonstrated leadership, entrepreneurial spirit, and concern for others. The recipients of the Frances H. Sharp Senior Lifetime Achievement Award are Gil Walter and Ken Mecouch. The Gary F. Simmerman Community Leadership Award recipient is James Curtis Edwards. Business Hero Awards will be presented to Fralinger Engineering, Inka Chicken Bar and Mexico Travel, and Star Bound Gymnastics Academy. The recipients of the Community Hero Awards are Nina Young and Gary Fisher. The Bridgton Area Chamber of Commerce recognizes business and community leaders through the Business and Community Hero Awards. The Frances H. Sharp Senior Lifetime Achievement Award recipients are Gil Walter and Ken Mecouch. James Curtis Edwards is the recipient of the Gary F. Simmerman Community Leadership Award. Business Hero Awards will be presented to Fralinger Engineering, Inka Chicken Bar and Mexico Travel, and Star Bound Gymnastics Academy. The Community Hero Awards will be given to Nina Young and Gary Fisher. Chapters 00:00 Introduction: Business and Community Hero Awards 02:43 Gil Walter: Extraordinary Business and Community Leadership 05:14 Gary F. Zimmerman Community Leadership Award 06:50 Business Hero Awards: Inca Chicken Bar, Mexico Travel, and Fralinger Engineering 10:08 Community Hero Awards: Nina Young and Gary Fisher 15:04 Conclusion: Exemplifying Hometown Heart

At Eurobike 2024 I did some short interviews with managers that I know in the industry. The idea was to take the temperature of the market for feedback on how things are looking in July 2024. My conversations included Jayu Yang (HARO), Gaspare Licata (Crank Brothers), Samuele Bressan (Pirelli), Martin Banke (Ceramic Speed), and Gary Fisher.Read the latest 'The Business of Cycling' BlogSign up for 'The Business of Cycling' Newsletter

Buy 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Buy 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Head to CRIT DRIP: https://www.etsy.com/shop/critdripTaija: @amalgam_screamsTaija Mars McDougall joins Acid Horizon to discuss her research on the applications of theories of masochism and the social contract as they relate to the obfuscation or misapprehension of forces at work under racial capitalism in the West. Figures in the discussion include Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, Gilles Deleuze, Saidiya Hartman, Gary Fisher, Anthony Farley, and Frantz Fanon.Support the showSupport the podcast:https://www.acidhorizonpodcast.com/Linktree: https://linktr.ee/acidhorizonAcid Horizon on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/acidhorizonpodcastZer0 Books and Repeater Media Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/zer0repeaterMerch: http://www.crit-drip.comOrder 'Anti-Oculus: A Philosophy of Escape': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/anti-oculus-a-philosophy-of-escape/Order 'The Philosopher's Tarot': https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-philosophers-tarot/Subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/169wvvhiHappy Hour at Hippel's (Adam's blog): https://happyhourathippels.wordpress.com​Revolting Bodies (Will's Blog): https://revoltingbodies.com​Split Infinities (Craig's Substack): https://splitinfinities.substack.com/​Music: https://sereptie.bandcamp.com/ and https://thecominginsurrection.bandcamp.com/

In this episode of The Gate 15 Interview, Andy Jabbour welcomes Kirk Cerny, Chief Operating Officer at Haystax. Kirk is a security and counterintelligence professional with 20 years of leadership experience in public & private C-suites. Kirk specializes in threat prevention and mitigation, compliance, and more! Kirk on LinkedIn. Kirk's Background Haystax School and Facility Security Public Safety & First Responders The new Dragon Pipeline What's on Kirk's mind We play Three Questions and talk old wagons, great states, and magic eight balls. Plus: Leadership, values, Gary Fisher, and lots more! Haystax Haystax School Safety in Action: Houston UASI Threat Response CISA Reflecting on the Parkland tragedy, its lasting impacts, and work still to be done, 14 February 2024 In the discussion we address:A few references mentioned in or relevant to our discussion include:

Gary Fisher talks about his experiences with empathy throughout his life.Featuring Tom Merritt and Gary Fisher.Gary's link:http://seniorgeek.substack.com/ Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/a-word-with-tom-merritt. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Worship led by Gary Fisher, accompanied by Amelia Pascoe and Pastor Lance Rubringer, with Kara Strong on piano.

Welcome to our end of year Listener Show. This is the annual episode where we invite several of our supporters to appear alongside us on the show. This year we wanted to try something different. Taking a cue from our Friday GDI we've decided to make this episode a quiz and debate show. To play along with us we have: George Tsang, Tom DiGianvittorio Jr. AKA CaptainJack913, and Gary Fisher.Starring Tom Merritt, Sarah Lane, Roger ChangShow Notes Here. Become a member at https://plus.acast.com/s/dtns. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to our end of year Listener Show. This is the annual episode where we invite several of our supporters to appear alongside us on the show. This year we wanted to try something different. Taking a cue from our Friday GDI we've decided to make this episode a quiz and debate show. To play along with us we have: George Tsang, Tom DiGianvittorio Jr. AKA CaptainJack913, and Gary Fisher. Starring Tom Merritt, Sarah Lane, Roger Chang. To read the show notes in a separate page click here! Support the show on Patreon by becoming a supporter!

This was a fun and rollicking conversation between the VDH Podcast - Chuck and Jamie - and Gary Fisher. Gary is an energetic and animated person who has 50 years experience in cycling. He was critical in bringing the mountain bike to market and played a role not just in creating the sport but also innovations such as 29" wheels, Genesis Geometry (long, low and slack) and more! We hope you enjoy!

Gary is a military veteran with many years of experience investigating the paranormal. At age 11 Gary saw something paranormal that stayed with him into adulthood. Spending his free time in the military cultivating ghost hunting skills he was able to use his work travel to investigate all over the world. We talk about some experiences he had as a child, as a soldier, and a very heartwarming personal experience after the loss of his wife. This is a fantastic episode. We learned a lot and made a friend.https://www.facebook.com/C1stParanormalMidwesthttps://www.c1stmidwest.com/?fbclid=IwAR2IoS9BlkVNPFwRH50xeW6jbMO7CvHPPiw-xK3slzZNkqzvEbmrAH_krno

Matt Harvey is the co-founder of Enduro Bearings, a company dedicated to producing premium, high quality bearings for the bicycle industry. He's been working in bike shops starting as a teenager and later for industry brands like Gary Fisher and Bianchi. What was your 'aha' moment for forming Enduro Bearings? What makes bicycle bearings different from bearings used for other purposes? What are the challenges involved in designing high performance bicycle bearings? Which parts of a mountain bike will benefit the most from high quality bearings?  How do you know when your bearings are worn out, or need maintenance? Are bearings generally serviceable, or are home mechanics better off replacing them? What kind of grease should you use for bearings? What's the advantage of ceramic bearing balls? Where are most bearings products produced? Why do you think Pressfit bottom brackets have such a bad reputation? Aside from bottom brackets, it seems like the bearings in pedals tend to give riders problems over time. Why is that? What's next for Enduro Bearings? Is there still potential for innovation and improvement in bicycle bearings? Learn more at cycling.endurobearings.com. --Keep up with the latest in mountain biking at Singletracks.com and on Instagram @singletracks --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/singletracks/support

Gary Fisher is a living legend. He is widely considered one of the inventors of the modern mountain bike. He played a large part in popularizing the first ever downhill mountain bike race, the repack race. He founded Gary Fisher Bicycles and eventually sold to TREK where he stayed on as a consultant for several years. His passion for cycling is deep and his mind is as sharp as they come.He currently lives in the bay area of California, and it's hard to overstate how big of an impact Gary had on cycling as we know it today.Read the latest 'The Business of Cycling' BlogSign up for 'The Business of Cycling' Newsletter

The National Crime Agency is closing in on millionaire UDA boss Gary Fisher after seizing his holiday home in County Down. For more on this, Ivan spoke to Ciara Barnes Chief reporter with Sunday Life.

Steven Kotler, New York Times Bestselling Author, Award-Winning Journalist,  Executive Director of the Flow Research Collective and Park Skier.Steven Kotler is an acclaimed author and journalist renowned for his expertise in flow states, human performance, and action sports. He has dedicated his career to exploring the frontiers of human potential.Kotler is widely recognized for his groundbreaking work on "flow," the psychology of optimal human experience. His 11 bestselling books, including "The Rise of Superman," "Stealing Fire," and "The Art of Impossible," blend meticulous research, personal anecdotes, and insightful analysis to illuminate how individuals can unlock their full potential.Beyond his writing, Kotler is a highly sought-after public speaker. His remarkable insights into human potential, combined with his passion for adventure, have solidified his status as a thought leader in psychology, neuroscience, and human performance. His writings continue to empower people to unleash their full potential and redefine the boundaries of what is possible.Steven gives us the lowdown on his latest book about peak performance aging, Gnar Country: Growing Old & Staying Rad, which exploring the frontiers of human possibility and how he learnt to park ski in his 50s, we're gonna be talking flow research, and loads more!You can follow what Steven is up to on Instagram @stevenkotler and be sure to check out his website stevenkotler.comLike what you hear?  Please consider subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a short review. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday.For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason Past guests on The Rad Season Show include Chris Berkard, Stacy Peralta, Bob Haro, Gerry Lopez, Gary Fisher, Ingrid Backstrom, Graham Jarvis. Contact Rad Season On our website radseason.com On Instagram at radseason and olirussellcowan On LinkedIn at olirussellcowan Email us at info@radseason.com Thanks for listening & keep it rad!

In this episode, Joe interviews Erica Rex: award-winning journalist, past guest and writer, and participant in one of the first ever clinical trials using psilocybin to treat cancer-related depression; and Mona Sobhani, Ph.D.: cognitive neuroscientist and the author of "Proof of Spiritual Phenomena: A Neuroscientist's Discovery of the Ineffable Mysteries of the Universe." As Rex discovered the power of psychedelics through a clinical trial, she discusses a huge problem she discovered: that researchers are not preparing participants enough for the ontological shock they may go through in trying to match unexplainable happenings to a rigid framework (or match the normal to a framework that has suddenly shifted) – that while patients have support at the clinic, it all disappears when they return to normal life. She believes that all too often, researchers are doing only what is necessary to be able to continue to receive funding, push drugs through the FDA, and prescribe a pill.  And as psychedelics changed Sobhani from very constrained scientific thinking to being very open to new ideas about consciousness and spirituality, she learned that many scientists had similar stories, and that coming out of the psychedelic closet is sometimes the best thing to do to normalize these ways of healing.  They discuss the challenges of newcomers trying to explain their experience without having the necessary language; how we still don't truly understand mental illness; how the DSM just clusters symptoms to fit 'disorders' into a box; how society has started pathologizing anything we find unpleasant (which of course, is a part of being human); Gary Fisher's research on using LSD and psilocybin for schizophrenic children, why science needs to combine consciousness research and psychedelics research, and more. www.psychedelicstoday.com

This week the microphone is turned the opposite direction with Dave Mable, host of Bike Talk with Dave, interviewing your host Craig Dalton. Dave had mentioned the many references I've made to my career and felt the audience should get to know me better. This is a re-broadcast of the original conversation from the Bike Talk podcast feed. Episode sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (use THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off) Bike Talk with Dave Spotify Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm actually going to be the guest. So a little while back I was the guest on bike. Talk with Dave. With host Dave Mabel. Dave reached out to me and said, he's been a long time listener of the podcast. He and I connected earlier via one of his film projects. And he mentioned that he felt like I left a bunch of Easter eggs in each episodes. Easter eggs about my history or a little mentions of things that I've done in my life. And he was curious to unpeel the onion and get to know me a little bit better. And it dawned on me that so much of my time on this podcast is spent interviewing others that I rarely share that much about my history, how I found a love for the sport of cycling, how I became a podcaster. And what I do for my day job. So with Dave's permission, I'm going to republish the conversation I had on bike. Talk with Dave. That was originally found on his feed, just so you can get to know me a little bit. So I hope you enjoy the conversation again for the frequent listener. You'll get to know me a little bit. If this is your first time listening to the gravel ride podcast. Maybe this isn't the episode to start with, unless you want to get to know a little bit more about me in the meantime, I did want to thank the dynamic cyclist. I mentioned them in the last episode as a long-time sponsor of the show. At this point, dynamic cyclist offers a stretching and strengthening programs specific to cyclists. It's a video series. Each video is about 15 to 20 minutes long. It's designed to be easy to fit into your life. Something you can do. In addition to all the cycling training you're doing. But it's critically important, especially as you become older, that you really do strengthen and stretch those parts of the body that get overworked. You can imagine as a cyclist, we all sit in this kind of awkward, unique position, and it's important to kind of work other muscles as I'm learning more and more as I'm getting older. So I encourage you to check out dynamic cyclists, just go to dynamic cyclists.com. They've got a free one week trial. So you really know what you're getting into and very inexpensive, either monthly or annual memberships, if you're a gravel ride podcast listener, which obviously you are, because you're hearing my voice. Simply enter the code, the gravel ride, and you'll get 15% off. Either one of those programs. So I highly recommend making it part of your routine. And with that free trial, that's a no reason not to try it out. So with that, I'm going to hand over the microphone to Dave Mabel, who is going to interview me. [00:03:10] Dave Mable: Craig Dalton, I am so thrilled to have you on Bike Talk with Dave. You are the OG of Gravel Podcasts and just talking to you before this thing, I'm just having these flashbacks cuz I do listen to your podcast very, very regularly and even go back to before I started listening to podcasts to hear your old episodes. But it's a treat to have you on and hear your voice in my. Uh, yet another time today. So welcome to the podcast. Thanks for [00:03:40] Craig Dalton: Thanks. Yeah, thanks Dave. I'm, I'm appreciative of you having me and looking forward to the conversation. [00:03:46] Dave Mable: I wanted to have you on because, well, a, you've got a cool podcast and you've done some cool things, but you throw out these little teaser about your past history or past life, and you've just peaked my curiosity to be perfectly honest, and I'm like, I just gotta ask this dude. Who he is and how he came to be. So first of all, um, where you call it, where, where are you right now? [00:04:13] Craig Dalton: So I am in Northern California in the town of Mill Valley, so we're right at the base of Mount Tam, which is purportedly the birthplace of mountain biking. [00:04:22] Dave Mable: bike. No doubt. Do you have an old mountain bike? [00:04:25] Craig Dalton: I do, I've, I've, despite the Gravel Ride Pods podcast being my main public persona in cycling, I am an avid mountain biker and have been for, for a very long. [00:04:36] Dave Mable: So I asked you if you had an old mountain bike. How old? What's your oldest mountain bike? [00:04:42] Craig Dalton: My oldest mountain bike is probably 12 years old, [00:04:46] Dave Mable: oh, all right. It's getting [00:04:47] Craig Dalton: so not, yeah, not, not exceptionally old. And I probably, if I had enough room, I probably would've had a few more laying around. I do have one access to. [00:04:56] Dave Mable: to one [00:04:58] Craig Dalton: 25 year old Dean titanium mountain bike that is with my father right now. And the long term vision is that'll come back into my life and hopefully that'll be a bike my, my now eight year old son can grow into at some point. [00:05:13] Dave Mable: a, oh, that's that. That's pretty cool. You better hang onto to that. That's, that's very cool. [00:05:18] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it's got a, you know, in addition to being like a neat titanium bicycle from that, that era, I actually, and we can get into this later, I worked at Dean Titanium. That was my first sort of professional job out of college. [00:05:32] Dave Mable: Oh, cool. Oh, I, I do wanna get into that cuz that's one of the things you throw out are little, uh, tidbits about you working in the cycling industry, um, and, uh, and being a lifetime cyclist. , I, I feel like cycling often leads us to cycling industry jobs. So am I guessing right that cycling came first in your life? [00:05:56] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah it did. And I'll, I'll take you on the way back machine for a minute here, Dave. So my father, my both my mother and father are from England, and my dad was an avid bicycle racer before he came to the us. And a little bit when he set foot on US soil, always a road racer. By the time I was around, he had transitioned into marathon running because having kids wasn't allowing him enough time to ride. But the bike has always been sort of around my life, but I, I certainly didn't pick it up with great interest. I did a little bit of BMX racing, which my father thought was. [00:06:35] Dave Mable: was completely [00:06:36] Craig Dalton: Crazy and uninteresting. He thought that was a, a discipline of cycling. He didn't understand. And thankfully my neighbors raced BMX and they would take me because my parents really had little interest in fostering my BMX career. [00:06:50] Dave Mable: Did your dad ever use the word silly? I'm just picturing an English guy. What are you doing with that silly sport? [00:06:58] Craig Dalton: E exactly. I mean, I think his progression to his progression from cycling as he would describe it, First he had a truck bike, so I had to translate that to being like, you know, beach cruiser kind of city bike style and then fell in love in, you know, in, in the UK they have a lot of cycling clubs that are fostering interest for the kids. So, you know, by the time they're 10 or 12, if they're showing interest. They're getting offered bicycles to use on the weekends and really kind of fostering them and developing them. In fact, my father is one of five boys, and I think four out of the five boys all raced as kind of teenagers into their early twenties. And it's a, it's been a, a unifying thread for the entire family, just the sport of cycling. In fact, my cousin from Australia, originally from the UK is staying with me right now, and he and I reconnected as an adult via Facebook as a platform and our love of cycling. And we ended up going and riding in Belgium together. But I completely digress my progression, again, BMX kind of then just used the bike for getting to and from school. My freshman year of high school, my dad took us on a, a bike tour. It was three of us, freshman in high school and him, uh, up through upstate New York and Vermont. We were living in New Jersey at the time, but it was still not a, something I was craving to do, riding a bike. It was just something. It was a great activity and a lot of fun. It wasn't until my freshman year of college and after my freshman year of college, my dad had bought a mountain bike, and this is to just to date me. That would be sort of around 19 86, 19 85 timeframe. So pretty early on he bought a Cannondale Mountain bike, and while I was home for the summer, I fell in love with it and I decided I really wanted to get a mountain bike. I was in school in Washington, DC. Um, got a job in a bike shop to bring that cost of entry down and ended up buying a Trek 7,000 aluminum hard tail and started cutting my teeth. Uh, mountain biking in Washington, DC for the uninitiated. Washington DC believe it or not, has a lot of dirt trails. You have to figure out how they're all interconnected and it, you know, it's certainly not like being in, you know, Iowa or Colorado, where there's a lot of open space to kind of pursue these. But it was there and it was a quite a fun community. So started racing mountain bikes, kind of my junior and senior year and falling in love with it. It coincided with me falling out of love with being a university student. And fortunately, maybe, I dunno, fortunately or unfortunately, I said to myself, if I can get a degree in business, I can apply that to anything. And in order to finish this degree, my intention is gonna be to go work in the bike. [00:09:48] Dave Mable: the bike. Oh, cool. Wow. That's pretty intentional. Did you end up getting the degree? [00:09:55] Craig Dalton: I did, yeah, I finished my degree and I was managing a bike shop in Washington, DC and I said to my son, you know, I was also bike racing mountain bikes at that time and being fairly competitive at the expert level in the mid-Atlantic region. And I decided, well, if I, if I'm just managing a bike shop, I can do that anywhere. Why don't I move to Colorado? And at the same time, I was applying to bike companies. Via, gosh, snail mail probably at that [00:10:21] Dave Mable: Right, right. Licking a stamp. [00:10:23] Craig Dalton: Yeah. And, uh, I remember, I, I had got some interest from Dean Titanium and Yeti. They both had potential positions available and I said, that's enough. And I packed up all my stuff, moved to Colorado, went down to interview at Yeti. That didn't work out. Moved to Boulder, got a job in a bike shop, connected with the team at Dean and they, they brought me in for an interview about a month after I. And that led to me becoming National Sales Manager of Dean Titanium. [00:10:54] Dave Mable: Wow. Cool. [00:10:56] Craig Dalton: That title would imply some lofty position and experience, but at that time it was, uh, that meant I answered the phone and tried to convince bike shops and customers to buy bikes. [00:11:09] Dave Mable: Fair enough. Fair enough. So what bike shop in Boulder in what year? [00:11:14] Craig Dalton: I worked for psychologic. [00:11:16] Dave Mable: Okay. [00:11:17] Craig Dalton: And that would've been, uh, 1993. [00:11:22] Dave Mable: huh? Okay, [00:11:22] Craig Dalton: And for, yeah, it was a pretty brief stint actually at the, at the shop before I ended up moving over to Dean. [00:11:27] Dave Mable: actually. Yeah. I had a little history with bike shops in Boulder. A friend of mine was part of the, uh, Morgo Bismarck crew and uh, and then ended up that closed and there was another cycle works, or I don't know. Anyway. [00:11:46] Craig Dalton: so many great bike shops there in Boulder. [00:11:48] Dave Mable: So many great bike shops there in Boulder and so much great riding there in Boulder. I spent a summer in Boulder and, oh, I mean, we still love to go back with our road bikes, believe it or not, and uh, and do some of those road roads either up into the mountains or out into the planes. Like some of those rides out towards Nawat and Longmont and, I don't know, just go east. Were awesome. [00:12:14] Craig Dalton: yeah, yeah, for sure. [00:12:16] Dave Mable: So how long were you at Dean? [00:12:18] Craig Dalton: I was at Dean for about a year and a half, and then I, I took a break and was focusing a little bit more on, on racing, which I was still doing. Turns out working for a small bike company doesn't actually give you a lot of time to ride and train on your bike, so I took a break and, you know, got some menial job and, and raced. And then I got an opportunity to move out to California to race for a team that was sponsored by Voodoo Bicycles. And Will Smith and I had a, had made a friend who was out in Palo Alto and got me a place to live out here, so I moved out to race for that team and I was able to get a job with a bicycle computer and accessory manufacturing company called aat. [00:13:01] Dave Mable: Aset. Awesome. I, I should have gotten 'em, but I've, I probably have three old AEC computers in my garage in some old box somewhere. [00:13:12] Craig Dalton: I would love to see them. [00:13:14] Dave Mable: Uh, Avice. I'm thinking of the wrong thing. Who made the Fat Boy? Was that Avice? Did they make [00:13:22] Craig Dalton: that wasn't. They did, yeah. They did have a very popular slick tire. Their computers were, um, had numbers associated with 'em. So Theat 20, [00:13:33] Dave Mable: Yeah. [00:13:34] Craig Dalton: 30, and the AAT 45. And then one of the big innovations that happened while I was there was the aviset vertex. And the vertex was the first. Watch, digital watch that could track elevation, gain and loss. [00:13:49] Dave Mable: I remember that. [00:13:51] Craig Dalton: And it was really, I mean, the older listeners will understand this moment. At that time when you were talking to your buddies about a mountain bike ride and the only piece of data you had was mileage. It was really difficult to compare one ride to another, right? So you could say, I rode 10 miles, but if you did 10 miles and 5,000 feet of climbing, that's a lot different experience than 10 miles and a thousand feet of climbing. So the, the v the vertex became this, this great unlock that we all take for granted today. Like when you go to a course profile for an event, they're always talking about mileage and, and elevation gain that you're gonna experience. But prior to that point, that just wasn't available as a data set. The average consumer. [00:14:33] Dave Mable: Yeah, it was a big deal, wasn't it? Uh, barometric, fresher based. [00:14:37] Craig Dalton: That's exactly it. Yep, [00:14:39] Dave Mable: Yeah, that's pretty interesting and pretty kind of vague. I mean, it's certainly not an exact science, [00:14:47] Craig Dalton: yep. Yeah. And it drifted, right? The barometric pressure would drift and there have to reset your elevation to a known elevation in order to get it to. [00:14:56] Dave Mable: yep. I, I remember those days. I never had one, but I do remember that I did have the ACET 20, ACET 30, whatever they got up to. [00:15:05] Craig Dalton: I think there was definitely a 40 and, and I can't remember if there was a 45, there was one that actually had that Vertex technology into it. Um, that might have been theat 50. [00:15:16] Dave Mable: yeah. [00:15:17] Craig Dalton: But my experience there was gr, my experience there was great. I, I ended up, um, uh, going to work on the national mountain bike circuit. So I would go to all the events and kind of represent AED and have an opportunity to do a little riding myself. I was able to go over to the tour of France once and represent aed. At that time. I mean, the, the thing that, that always, I always come back to with Aset, they used to have these bi, these ads in the bicycle magazines where they would show the front of the, the professional peloton, and every one of those riders had an aviset computer on their bike. And my favorite tagline was, what 90% of the workforce brings to work? [00:15:57] Dave Mable: That's awesome. I can picture that ad. [00:15:59] Craig Dalton: yeah. I was so sold. So I was one of those guys who went over and made sure everybody was dialed when, when onsite changed from their traditional yellow to their Tor De France pink. We gave them all custom pink computers. [00:16:13] Dave Mable: Nice. Nice. That's awesome. What a fun experience. What a great, great, uh, if you're a cycling enthusiast, what a great gig. [00:16:24] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I think, I mean, the bike industry as an as as you know, like, it, it, it has its ups and downs. I do think, you know, as a young person in their twenties, it's a phenomenal place to work. It's just you have to start questioning your career path later in life. Like, where am I? Where am I gonna get to? Obviously the bike industry is fairly small. There's some exceptions, but you know, a lot of these businesses, unless you're the owner, it's kind of hard to really move up the food. [00:16:51] Dave Mable: Yep. And, uh, time is, uh, like if you want to have a family, it's, it's hard to be. At the tour of France for a month every year. And then the tour of Spain, and then the tour of California, and then the et cetera. Et And then you go to Interbike and then you go to the Outdoor Retailer show and you, you, you can be home, gone from home a lot, lot, lot. So it is a lifestyle for sure, but, uh, [00:17:18] Craig Dalton: to that, To that exact end, I, I ended up accepting a position with one of a's competitors, Veta and I moved over to Switzerland to be European. I forget, I was European sales and marketing manager. And effectively they, they, they had a person in the position who was um, usurping too much power. As according to the US bosses, and they wanted someone young who they could control, who was willing to live in Europe, travel around country to country and represent the company. And I was like, that's me. I raised my hand. I'll go. I had a great, I mean I had a great time. The, the company was, was in the course of my brief tenure over there, which was only about six months. The company was bought by a private equity firm and I had some issues getting paid, but I don't. I don't, uh, you know, I had a great experience for six months over in Europe living on someone else's dime. Again, just talking about bikes with people. But I will say after that experience, I was like, I need to take a professional break from the biking industry and go find something else to do. I'll still love riding my bike. In fact, I may even like it more if I don't have to talk about it, you know, 50 hours. [00:18:35] Dave Mable: There's true truth to that statement for sure. Uh, so what'd you end up doing? I mean, that's still a while ago. [00:18:42] Craig Dalton: yeah. Yeah, so I mean, I guess the sort of abbreviated version is, um, moved back to California, ended up going to business school and St studying technology management. Did a series of work for a series of small companies in the mobile. And then, um, in 2010, I founded a company that made iPad and iPhone accessories, a company called Dodo Case. And, and it ended up taking off, I won't belabor this since this isn't an entrepreneurship show, but ended up building a manufacturing facility in San Francisco. Our products were handmade. I a hundred percent referenced back to my early experience at Dean Titanium in terms. How to build a brand, how to build an aura, how to build quality products, how to, how to stand behind those products and really kind of take and accept consumer input as like the guiding principle of where you take the business. It was in the early days of social media being here in the Bay Area. We sort of understood the game that needed to be played at that time, and we amassed a pretty big following because we just had a great compelling story. I mean, who's hand building phone and iPad accessories in the United States? [00:19:58] Dave Mable: iPad. Yeah, nobody, [00:20:02] Craig Dalton: Exactly. So obviously cycling continued to be part of my life, but it was just a, a recreational activity. I wasn't doing much. I don't think I was attending any, I wasn't going down to Sea Otter, like I let most things come and go. Maybe I would pin a number on here and there as I sort of went out to Leadville and did the Leadville 100. I had a brief stint doing Ironman triathlons, but it was all just in the, you know, the pursuit of fun and scratching that endurance athletics itch. [00:20:33] Dave Mable: bag. Do you remember what year you did? Leadville [00:20:37] Craig Dalton: Um, it would've been either 2007 or 2009. [00:20:44] Dave Mable: Hmm, I'm gonna have to look. We were in that era, so we might have lined up together. [00:20:50] Craig Dalton: Amazing. [00:20:51] Dave Mable: you were probably ahead of us, but, uh, nonetheless, I think my first was like oh, three or four. I did it solo and then I told my wife, I was like, Hey, I think this is tandem about, and she believed me actually. She said, if we get a new tandem, I'll do it. I'm like, uh, I, I'm calling the bike shop right now. [00:21:15] Craig Dalton: Oh man, I can't e [00:21:16] Dave Mable: And she said, yes. [00:21:19] Craig Dalton: I can't even, I can't imagine going up Columbine nor down Columbine on a tandem. [00:21:24] Dave Mable: You know, up Columbine was a lot of pushing, as you can well imagine, and down Columbine. Uh, we bought a Ventana full suspension rig with the Maverick Fork. So six inches of travel front and rear, and I needed all six inches. Like you're going down Columbine and there's people coming up on the other side of the trail. And there's a giant rock in front of you. All you can do is hit it, you know? And so I did, but uh, we always made it down. Uh, the only time we crashed was going up the power line and uh, you know, it's just rocky and hard and. I, uh, come around a corner and the front wheel like just gets up on a lip and then hits another rock and just stops all of our momentum. And for some reason we leaned to the right and there was nothing but air below our feet. And so down we went. friend of us was, a friend of ours was with us at that moment, and he looked at us, he's like, you guys good? Yeah, we're all right. He's like, I'm outta here. [00:22:34] Craig Dalton: Goodbye. It's already been long. If you're on your way back up power line, it's already been long enough of a day. You can't, you can't wait for down soldiers at that point. [00:22:42] Dave Mable: No, that's true. That's true. We made it home though. Uh, so you have a lot of mountain biking in your history. Where did Gravel. [00:22:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah, so the story around gravel, I had moved from San Francisco to Mill Valley where I live today, and I was riding into the city, and for those of you who don't know the geography here, There's actually a lot of, um, there's the coastal range of hills that kind of go right from the Golden Gate Bridge into Marin County, so you can actually ride in on the dirt. And so I had this new commute and I'm, I'm gonna mention that this was also when I discovered listening to podcasts. And we'll put a pin in that statement for a minute here, but I was riding into the city and I had an opportunity to ride on the dirt or ride on the trail. And I had had a cyclocross bike back in the day and I. [00:23:34] Dave Mable: in the, like [00:23:35] Craig Dalton: It was, this was would've been around 2015 timeframe just to give a, a, a timestamp there. So I bought a, a niner aluminum gravel bike with a max tire capacity, I think of maybe 33 millimeters. And I started riding that and it had mechanical disc brakes, and I started riding that into the city. And, uh, listening to my podcast and I thought, well, this is sort of an enjoyable hybrid of, you know, it's a drop bar bike, so it's efficient. So when I get on the pavement, I can ride to my office, which was, it was about a, an hour and 15 minute trip. Um, one way, but with probably 60% of that being on pavement. So again, like playing, playing in that mixed terrain angle. But I also started to recognize, One that I was enjoying it, but two, that the bike didn't have the capabilities that I needed. The, the hills were steep, so my mechanical disc brakes were requiring too much hand strength to brake, and I, it felt like a huge shortcoming, only having 33 millimeter tires around here. Disclosure, the gravel riding we have around here is, is rough, and many people would argue that it's mountain biking, but it's my cup of tea. But again, so I, I thought. How was I around the sport of cycling my entire life as we've just discussed? How did I botch this bike purchase and buy something that wasn't suitable? And you know, I was reading about the gravel market. It was obviously early days at that point in terms of like the amount of models that were out there, et cetera. And I just had like, I want to go all in on this. Like this is the type of riding I really like. I. [00:25:17] Dave Mable: I get [00:25:18] Craig Dalton: The best bike that I can afford. I want disc brakes and I want big tire capacity. So after a bunch of research, [00:25:27] Dave Mable: I think that's called a mountain bike. [00:25:31] Craig Dalton: possibly, possibly a bunch of research, I ended up, um, selling a road bike and pushing all in on a, an open up with two wheel sets. So I had a road wheel set and, uh, a gravel wheel set. And I absolutely fell in love with it. [00:25:49] Dave Mable: huh, what was the tire capacity of that? [00:25:51] Craig Dalton: Oh, I could run 40 sevens, six 50 by 47 [00:25:55] Dave Mable: huh. Wow. That's, I mean, that's, that's pretty early. I mean, those are, if you're talking 15, 16, like we're still riding cross bikes on gravel those days. I mean, that's, you go by a cross bike and that's your gravel bike. [00:26:10] Craig Dalton: Un unquestionably that open bike was visionary and ahead of its time. It's it. I would still argue that it's spec still holds up with the sweet spot of gravel cycling today. [00:26:23] Dave Mable: Huh, interesting. [00:26:24] Craig Dalton: Yeah, [00:26:26] Dave Mable: So I feel like you dove in Headfirst podcast and you're going all over the freaking world riding a gravel bike. [00:26:36] Craig Dalton: Yeah, so I, I pushed all in. I realized like one, I had a di, I had a, uh, caliber brake road bike and I was like, this thing's gonna be worthless a few years from now as people go to disc brakes. So I was like, I just need to clear out the garage, take the money I get from that, sell the niner and, and buy this one bike for me. The type of road riding I do, I found that the open totally cap. As a road bike with, you know, 28 sea tires on 700 sea wheel sets. And then as I said, with those six 50 B 47 s, incredible bike for everything we have in front of us here on Mount Tam. At around the same time. Now this is going to 2017, we ended up selling Doto case. The business I had. And I had mentioned as a little something, we put a pin in that I had been listening to a bunch of podcasts. Doto case was a manufacturing business. It was also an e-commerce business and a social media business. So I was always in front of a computer, you know, building websites con, you know, trying to convert E-commerce customers to customers. And I said to myself, I need to do something totally different for a break. And selling the company gave me, I don't have to get a job tomorrow. Money. It did not give me, I don't have to get a job ever money, but you know, it gave me a little bit of a window to just kind of explore my own creativity. So I said I'm enjoying podcasts. I'm flabbergasted that I managed to screw up this gravel bike purchase. There's so much going on in gravel. I get so many questions about how to spec a bike. I said, why don't I, you know, I took, I took a podcasting course and I began the Gravel Ride podcast in 2018. With this simple vision of, I was gonna interview people, product designers, and event organizers. [00:28:25] Dave Mable: which I feel like you've stuck to for on five years now. [00:28:31] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It's been pretty much the journey and I still, I mean I, you know, as you and I both as podcasters, there's days where you're like, can I keep up the energy and enthusiasm to do. Obviously being conversational podcasts like we both host, it's important that you're engaged and excited to talk to your guest. And I still am. I mean, I, I, I do think, you know in, as, as we hit 2023, some of the, the massive innovation in the, the bicycle design maybe is behind us for gravel. There was a long journey of many years. For designers to figuring out like, well, how do we get the right tire capacity? How do we get the right geometry? And I don't think the, the, there's not one single right answer to that. I think what has emerged is you've got this great category that as writers explore their own interests as they reconcile their own terrain, there's, there's the right bike for. And I'm always the first to say the bike setup I have here is not the bike set up for Kansas, for example. Like, it's just, it would, it would be way overkill. Um, and there's, there's nothing wrong with what I've set up my bike as, and there's nothing wrong with how you've set up your bike. [00:29:52] Dave Mable: with Yeah. Well, you would totally make fun of me. I'm still on a, uh, Uh, this is kind of interesting, a trek Crockett, the pink one, and, uh, flat bar, which is interesting. And it is signed by both Gary Fisher and Katie Compton. Which, I don't know, maybe that went down in value a couple years ago, but I feel like it still has value. I, I'm a Katie Compton fan, but uh, it was kind of funny cuz they were, it was at the TRX CX Cup and truth be told, I wanted spend nest to, uh, uh, to sign it. And every time as a journalist, every time he was available, I was working and. I wasn't working. He was working, coaching, doing whatever. So, uh, I walked past the Katy Compton compound and uh, I was like, Hey, you should sign my bike. She did. Gary Fisher walks by at that moment. He's like, well, how come she gets to sign it? I'm like, dude, here's a pen right here. And then they argue about who had more input into its design, which I just stood back, listened and. But, uh, you know, it's a pretty old sc I mean, it's a cross bike. It's a high, it's a high performance cross bike, and it is a bit sketchy on loose gravel, but on the, when the gravel is concrete, it is awesome. It flies. I have 33 millimeter tires on it, which people are like, I didn't know they still made those. Oh God, I saved them. But, uh, You know, looking at the, the well, 40 sevens. Holy moly, those are big. Uh, I could envision a pair of forties I could envision, um, you know, the, the benefit of a longer bike. Talking to a guy about, um, fat biking recently, he builds his own bike. You'll want to tune in, um, to Steve McGuire and, and hear how he has come up with his fat bike design. Um, Is long, like, really long chain stays because it acts like a keel in the loose gravel. And I'm like, oh, that, I mean, that really makes sense. So there is kind of something for everyone. I, I also have to say, like, I talked to a dude, um, the podcast I dropped today. The guy is, uh, the reason he loves gravel is nobody cares what you're. Nobody cares what you're wearing. Nobody cares how fast you are. They don't care what color your skin is. They don't care how you talk. Like it's just a gravel ride. [00:32:38] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:32:38] Dave Mable: uh, and he really appreciates that. So, boy, that was a rant, wasn't it? [00:32:43] Craig Dalton: a little bit, but we learned a lot about your bike. [00:32:48] Dave Mable: Like I said, there's little Easter eggs we can throw out in these podcasts, right? [00:32:52] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I think that the, the sport of gravel's in an interesting place right now, um, just in terms of like the, for lack of a better term, the professionalization of the front end of the pack and that that's impact on the rest of the field. I mean, obviously like we talk about the spirit of gravel and the type of experience that anybody who's willing to sign up for one of these. Should have, like, we're generally, we're not at the front. We're really just just there for the experience, but there is this ongoing kind of evolution of what the front end of the pack looks like and act, you know, the requirements for safety and, um, competitiveness that need to be figured out. [00:33:34] Dave Mable: signal out [00:33:35] Craig Dalton: I'm. I'm, uh, sort of optimistic. There's a lot of experimentation going on this year. You know, Unbound just announced that they're gonna start the professional men by themselves, and then the professional women two minutes after that, and then the rest of the field, uh, eight minutes after that, which I think is interesting. I, I do think, you know, in talking to female athletes, it's, it's always been this curious race dynamic of clearly you're working with. [00:34:03] Dave Mable: men, [00:34:04] Craig Dalton: And other women throughout the day, like anybody would, right? No one wants to ride by themselves, but so much of that can come into play with who takes the win, right? If you, you could, you know, a strong woman can go off the front and someone drafting men could bridge that gap putting in, you know, 20% less effort. And that could be the difference between winning and losing and. I, I have no idea what the right answer is, but I, I do like this idea that they're gonna have some time to themselves to kind of strategically do one thing or the other, [00:34:40] Dave Mable: And [00:34:41] Craig Dalton: knows what those things will be. [00:34:42] Dave Mable: right? And at least have the opportunity to see where people are relative to themselves. Like, oh, there's five women ahead of me and there's 25 behind me. And then the men come and you get mixed in there. You still know like, okay, there's still five women ahead of me and 25 behind me, and so I'm in good shape. As opposed to just not having any idea where the rest of the women are. Cuz you lose them in the, the me. [00:35:09] Craig Dalton: exactly. So I know the, the Shasta Gravel hugger, which I just did an uh, episode with him a few weeks back. Uh, Ben, he's trying a few things. That'll be interesting to see. We'll see the results of that in, in March. Um, yeah, I just think it's gonna be an interesting year for. [00:35:23] Dave Mable: for sure. It, it is going to be an interesting year and it was an interesting year, especially with the world UCI, world Championships and that was definitely an interest. I wouldn't call that US style gravel, uh, women raced on a completely different day than the men. [00:35:44] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Not at, yeah, totally Not at all. US style gravel. In fact, I, I just had, um, the gentleman on, I haven't released the podcast yet, who's got, who's running the UCI world's qualifier out of Fayetteville for the second year in a row. Um, the name of the event is escaping me. It'll come to me in a minute, I'm sure. But it was interesting talking to him both on the podcast and offline. You know, the, the expectation, I guess, at the USA cycling level for a long period of time was that this first inaugural, um, uci, uh, you know, world Championships was going to be held in the US and I think they just, UCI just wasn't communicating really well with USA cycling. And ultimately it wasn't until, like the very sort of last quarter of the year that they really figured out and leaned in. Hey, if we're gonna pull this off, it needs to be in Italy. It needs to be somewhere, somewhere where they've run events and it's close to home and they can kind of, they, I think they just felt like that was the only way that they could execute. [00:36:49] Dave Mable: was, huh. Interesting. Um, yeah. U S USA cycling, I feel like instead of, it was just interesting who showed up, how they showed up. And then how the race went. And I feel like it was a sep kind of day versus a, or Keegan Swenson for sure. I mean, he probably could have, [00:37:11] Craig Dalton: Yeah, [00:37:11] Dave Mable: uh, but, um, but it was such a road race. It was like Perry Rube with gravel sections. [00:37:18] Craig Dalton: yeah, yeah. And, and obviously like shorter than we're accustomed to. I'm not necessarily opposed to like that shorter length because I do think. An argument to be said, to say, you know, it's hard to be racing after 200 miles, whereas everybody's racing hardcore after a hundred. Um, I don't know what the right answer is, but I'm, I'm like, my gut tells me like those ultra distance ones are like their own special thing. Um, while I, I just pulled it up. So it's the Highland Gravel Classic in Fayetteville, put on by Bruce Dunn at All Sports Productions. He's got the, the UCI qualifier for this. Um, in Fayetteville again. And I think the interesting thing is, um, you know, who's gonna show up? Like what is the process he and I were talking about, you know, as an age grouper, I could go to Fayetteville and if I'm in the top 25% of my category, I could go compete in the world Championships doesn't mean anything sort of, of my relative ability here in the United States across, you know, any of these big races we have here. But I have to say that that's, that's a compelling story. Like I, I would go to, I would go to Italy and represent the United States. I'm, look, I'm a tourist cyclist, but to like have that honor of like, in the 50 plus category to go over there, I would, I wouldn't, you know, snub my nose at it. [00:38:41] Dave Mable: it? Yeah, for sure. I'd, I'd, I'd jump at that chance. I've got a lot of work to do to even hope for top 25% of our group [00:38:49] Craig Dalton: You, you and me both. [00:38:51] Dave Mable: but, uh, but nonetheless, you're right. It, it would be super cool. I, I feel like there's room for all of it. You know, if you, I feel like gravel cycling. An analogy is marathon or just running road [00:39:06] Craig Dalton: Yep. [00:39:07] Dave Mable: And, uh, anybody can sign up. You can do 5k, you can do the local 5K in your neighborhood and get a t-shirt. Or you can do like the world's largest 5K in, I don't know, Boulder, Colorado. That'd be a 10 K. But, um, same with marathons and uh, you know, Chicago Marathon. 30,000 people, the front line's up at the front and the mid packers line up at their pace and then they go run it. And I feel like gravel's pretty similar. [00:39:40] Craig Dalton: I do too. I think, I mean, I think that the moment in time to build a big race, like a thousand plus person race, it's difficult to find a spot on the calendar where that'll work. [00:39:52] Dave Mable: mm-hmm. [00:39:53] Craig Dalton: Um, today I do think there are, there are always gonna be geographic opportunities, right? Like if there's not a lot of racing in upstate New York, there's an opportunity for someone to create a great race in upstate new. It's probably also important that the economics match up, right? So if, if you've got a, if you're gonna make, if a 200 person race is gonna be the size of your race, just understand that going in and don't overinvest, and you know, it's gonna have little, little bit more of a community feel and some of these major events that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in their product. [00:40:27] Dave Mable: Yeah, it is kind of amazing having watched this happen. Everything from like the beginning I was in Trans Iowa, number two and uh, to full-time staff, full-time year round staff, multiple full-time year round staff running these gravel events. That's kind of crazy actually. Um, We can dissect the world of gravel forever. But, uh, I wanna know more about your podcast. Um, you've got a co-host with Randall, and, uh, I'm curious how that works. Uh, how'd you find him? And, uh, how do you guys, how's it work between the two of you? [00:41:08] Craig Dalton: Yeah, that's a good question. So Randall and I got connected. Randall Jacobs is the founder of Thesis Spike and more recently Logos components, which making, uh, some great carbon wheels. He and I connected because he started that business in San Francisco. He was offering people demo rides of the bikes, and, uh, Randall was an ex specialized employee, helped design the original diverge. I got to know him and appreciate his, his personality, his technical acumen. Um, ultimately ended up buying a thesis bike and riding one. So I transitioned from the open to the thesis. The thesis is a fraction of the price of the open. [00:41:48] Dave Mable: Yeah. [00:41:49] Craig Dalton: Incredibly capable. In fact, for anybody on video, it's the, the pink bike right behind me is my thesis. Bicycle, [00:41:56] Dave Mable: I love that pink bike. [00:41:59] Craig Dalton: but very much like the open. Anyway, so, um, he and I just became friends and became people. We, we rode together. We, we saw many elements of the, the, the industry and the world. Similarly, I also recognize that Randall became my go-to guy for technical question. [00:42:15] Dave Mable: guys [00:42:16] Craig Dalton: And it started out, um, first did an episode about thesis bikes and got to know him a little bit, and then I invited him to do a gravel bike 1 0 1 episode. So in kind of quizzing the community, what they were looking for, I realized, you know, a lot of time the starting point of our discussions on the podcast are a little bit more. I'll make the point that I absolutely endeavor to start at the beginning and try not to make too many assumptions, and I'm not trying to be a tech podcast at all. Um, but I brought Randall on and I was able to, he and I were able to have a discussion of, what do you look for when you buy a bike? Let's break it down. Let's help the listener understand at the time in which we recorded the first one, what should you be thinking? [00:43:03] Dave Mable: about? [00:43:04] Craig Dalton: We did the same thing a year later because I felt like the industry kept changing and it was just this great thing to have in the podcast feed, you know, 2019 Gravel bike 1 0 1 episode. Um, as he and I continued to communicate, it became clear, like there were probably some themes, some discussions, et cetera, with people in the industry that he was going to be a. Person to interview them with. So, Randall's episodes tend to either be more highly technical than mine. So for example, he did a great episode with Matt from Enduro Bend, uh, Barings. Where, where they really kind of dug into ceramic and stainless steel bearings and the viscosities of oil and stuff. That's kind of, you know, I can sort of, I'm smart enough to be, you know, it sounds somewhat intelligent about, but I definitely don't know everything those, those guys and girls know. So I said I'm loose on that. And then the other big thing he's super keen on is just community and the community of cycling and the, uh, frankly, the mental health value of cycling as an activity. Uh, and cycling the cycling community as something that, you know, we benefit from not only physiologically as athletes, but. Emotionally in that it, it, it does become this, this release for us when we get out there. And it is one of the things that's always attracted me about riding Off Road is that, you know, you ride a technical section and you just stop and you wait for the next guy or girl to come through and High five 'em, whether they crash or clean it, it's just, it's the best feeling in the world. [00:44:48] Dave Mable: No doubt, no doubt. I it really is. You mentioned community and you started a thing called the ridership. Uh, tell our listeners what it is and what's, why'd you start it? What, [00:45:03] Craig Dalton: Yeah, the the rider, the ridership, a free global cycling community. It has a sort of orientation towards gravel and adventure cyclists, but, Everybody's welcome. It serves two purposes. One, you know, I, I definitely wanted to have a, a easier back channel to me as a podcast host. I wanted people to be able to chat with me directly and, uh, but I also realized like I'm, I'm, I'm potentially a authority in the world of gravel cycling, but I'm not the a. And to my earlier comments about, you know, my technical shortcomings, I realized that, you know, I had this amazing community of listeners that are very capable of interacting with ano one another and they have hundreds of different experiences than my own, or, or Randall's, for that matter. So we're basically built, uh, a community on Slack, and that may not be, Going forward platform, but Slack, for those who don't know, it's just a, a program or an application you can get on your computer or phone and we can sort of segment the conversations into what are called channels. So we have a channel on tires, we have a channels on nutrition, and we have also have regional channels. And the vision was, you know, as gravel cyclists, when you're a road cyclist, it, it, to me, it seemed easy to find. Like I could go and there wasn't a lot of questions. Like as long as I knew the mileage and maybe the elevation gainer loss, like I kind of knew what I was gonna be pedalling on. But gravel, I feel, I felt like you, you missed the real gems. Like it's easy for me to tell you to go up old railroad grade and come down here on Mount Tam, but I've got 20 different, you know, little paths that I can take you on that are gonna create those high five. [00:46:53] Dave Mable: s [00:46:53] Craig Dalton: And we all do. And I wanted, so if I go to Iowa, I want someone in Iowa to tell me where I should go gravel ride, and I wanna ask questions of them. If I go to Europe, I wanna ask questions of someone who lives in the country that I'm visiting. So we started out with that basic premise that everybody's welcome. We've created this open platform that's free to use. Its devoid of any advertis. We, you know, I originally had like a Facebook group for the podcast, and it's like, I don't want to bring you into Facebook to have other ads shoved in your face. I want you to get out on your damn bike. So we wanted something that was like, come talk about bikes to your heart, heart's content, then put it away. We're not looking to be part of the attention economy. I'm not. Monetize your attention. We're just trying to create this community where we can share, share, and exchange value. [00:47:50] Dave Mable: can. Is it working? [00:47:52] Craig Dalton: Yeah, it is, you know, we've got a, a pretty passionate group in there. There's probably, I haven't checked lately, but probably around 2000 people that participate in the forum. The channel, you know, every day you go in, the channels are lighting up from, you know, people. Having a mechanical question that they're getting someone more technical to answer, or we tend to get a, a bunch of like event organizers who get in the mix there saying, Hey, you know, Shasta gravel huggers coming up. If you have any questions, I'm Ben, I'm the promoter. Just, you know, I'm happy I'm here to answer things like that. And then, you know, a lot of direct messaging, people sell stuff there to, you know, when they're getting rid of a bike or a wheel set or what have you. So yeah. Yeah, I would say it's working. It's not my day job. So, you know, we've, I believe we've created a thoughtful structure. We don't, we haven't had any issues that we've needed to police. Everybody's self-selecting as someone who's just there for information and the enjoyment of the sport. [00:48:51] Dave Mable: there. One of the, there are no rules in gravel, but one of the rules is don't be a dick. So maybe you have people who abide by the rules and are not dicks. [00:49:04] Craig Dalton: That. That's pretty much it, and for anybody who's listening, it's just go to the the www.theridership.com and you'll get a free invite to join. [00:49:13] Dave Mable: Perfect. I love it. I love it. So I want to ask a couple of podcast questions. Who is the guest that you were most surprised? Said yes. [00:49:29] Craig Dalton: Uh, I'll answer this in two ways. I think Rebecca Rush was that guest and the, the second part of that is she could not be a nicer person. [00:49:39] Dave Mable: correct. That is a true statement. [00:49:43] Craig Dalton: Unbelievably engaging, inquisitive, generous with her time like. That's the one I point to that I just, one super stoked that she came on and two super stoked to see that she is every, she shows up in a podcast interview as much as she does on her social media. [00:50:02] Dave Mable: on. Yeah. That's cool. That's kind of fun. What was a surprising moment for you with a guest? [00:50:10] Craig Dalton: Gosh. I mean, I mean there's, there's sort of tricky moments, I think, in any podcast interview sometimes, you know, I don't, I don't do a lot of, um, like pre-show interviewing because it's conversational. Like I just generally want it to happen. I've had a few guests who weren't as. Verbose as I would like them to be. [00:50:35] Dave Mable: or you have to like pull those words out of their mouth. [00:50:40] Craig Dalton: Exactly. I mean, we're obviously an audio medium and, uh, you know, we need people to talk and we need people to tell stories. And, you know, I, I wouldn't invite someone on who I didn't think had an amazing story. I've just had a, a few odd occasions where, you know, they weren't good at telling their own. [00:50:57] Dave Mable: occasions. Yeah. Yeah. I, I can relate to that. And only 50 some in, but, uh, yeah, you, you are right about that. Where, what's your vision? Where do you want it to go? [00:51:11] Craig Dalton: Yeah. You know, I think, as I mentioned earlier, like I, I still am excited to pull the mic in front of me and have these conversations. Um, if I wasn't, I wouldn't keep doing. [00:51:23] Dave Mable: a, [00:51:23] Craig Dalton: scratches an itch for me. As we said earlier, like I've been around bikes and bike racing my entire life, and I do enjoy. Having a foothold in this world and the Gravel Ride Podcast has provided me, you know, opportunity to build an audience and build a community and build relationships within the bicycle industry. I'm fortunate enough that I've got a handful of sponsors that'll come in and help me pay for some of the overhead of the podcast, and on a rare occasion, you know, give me an opportunity. Go to an event or attend something that otherwise might be difficult to get into. And that, you know, that, that to me was the in, in my mind when I started the podcast. That was the reward I was looking for since I'm going to be involved in this sport anyway, having a little perks here and there and, and opportunities because of the, the hours and hours of effort that I put into this podcast seemed like a fair, fair. [00:52:25] Dave Mable: fair, yeah. I actually had somebody ask me today, is this your full-time gig? [00:52:31] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:52:32] Dave Mable: So Craig, is this your full-time gig [00:52:34] Craig Dalton: you don't really understand the economics if you're asking that question. [00:52:37] Dave Mable: You're right. No, I did not win the, was it the Powerball $1.1 billion thing? I did not win that. [00:52:46] Craig Dalton: right. Any of you think about it? You mentioned when we were offline about some recent interviews we've been doing with cycling media. Uh, journalists and, you know, with outside laying off a bunch of staff and a bunch of publications, kind of grappling with what the future of media is. You know, I've always felt very blessed in the fact that I, the podcast has never had to provide income for my family. It has never had to put food on the table because that, that's complicated. I mean, the economics don't really work out. For this could not be a full-time position for me. And I am, I'm certainly empathetic to the plight of people who have dedicated their lives to become proper journalists, um, and who are struggling to sort of make ends meet in this current environment. [00:53:38] Dave Mable: Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely a challenge. I actually was editor of a actual paper magazine that was printed on real life paper and you like, sat on the toilet and read it. Um, [00:53:54] Craig Dalton: Love it. [00:53:56] Dave Mable: And I feel like I am a Cartwright in 1912 when people are st starting to buy the, the Ford model A or whatever, and that I'm seeing the writing on the wall that like, in a few years, there will be no more Cartwrights. [00:54:15] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Yeah, I, I think it's a super difficult transition because, I mean, the obvious answer is like, consumers should pay for the content that they consume, whether it's audio or the written word, but the, frankly, like even if there's a willingness to do that, the mechanisms to do so are still klugy and create, you know, the minor hurdles for people to get over. Right. Do I want to get out my credit card to read a particular article that I, you know, became exposed to? N no. But if it was like embedded into my web pay, like into my web browser, like this micro transaction that could be made simple, like I would, I would do that. So I'm sort of, I'm stuck in that, like there are definitely content channels that I pay for, but there are certainly other bits of content that I enjoy consuming. That I like the mechanisms for paying for them. Just the, the friction's just too much for me to do. So, and you know, you, you as podcasters, we see this all the time, right? We, we occupy this very intimate place with the listener, right? We, we've spending, they spend an hour a week with us. And if you think about like that, that attention that we're, we're fortunate enough to garner from our listeners, that's a massive amount. Attention. People know a a lot about me from the years of podcasting and my myself on the mic. Yet [00:55:46] Dave Mable: Yet [00:55:47] Craig Dalton: it's very difficult for anybody to figure out how to compensate me for their appreciation of my words. [00:55:53] Dave Mable: Right, right. They could buy you a coffee. [00:55:57] Craig Dalton: Yeah, indeed. Yes. That's a little, I appreciate the plug, Dave. I mean, I have, I've always had this sort. Super modest, buy me a coffee account, buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride. And I mean, I'm always like super appreciative if someone takes a moment and does that cuz it's not, it's not first and foremost, it's sort of like something I do mention, but I, I don't push it and I don't have a, like a, a really elaborate Patreon program that allows you to get bonus episodes. And if I had more time, I would love to do that. Cause I, I. A hundred percent like to provide more value for those people who, who are supporting me. [00:56:35] Dave Mable: yeah, I send, uh, my supporters as sticker. So it's, I mean, it's something, but you're right, it's, it's, it's a treat to get an email that says, uh, Hey, somebody bought you a coffee. Like, ah, that's super nice because it's, I mean, they do have to log on and they do have to like, get out their credit card and punch a bunch of things on their computer and push send and, and, uh, it's time outta their day to show their appreciation for what, what you're doing and, and what you're bringing them. And you're right. Uh, an hour a week and we're like, Like drilled into people's heads through their ears. Like that's, [00:57:14] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:57:14] Dave Mable: that's, uh, that's privileged space and time, isn't it? [00:57:21] Craig Dalton: Yeah, for sure. And I will say like, I think just to give the listeners some perspective, I think for every hour we publish probably is three hours of combined effort to kind of get to that hour. That's, that's sort of my, like back of the envelope math around like the effort it takes to kind of produce the podcast. [00:57:39] Dave Mable: Yeah, I feel like you're more efficient than me. [00:57:45] Craig Dalton: I mean either that Dave or my editing is, is really low pro. [00:57:49] Dave Mable: Oh, I don't know. You should listen to the podcast I dropped today. There was a moment where I just drew a blank in this conversation and I said to the guy, I was like, you ever like just have a blank moment and you can't come up with whatever you're gonna say? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, it sucks cuz I did not want to edit this and I'm gonna have to. And then as I was listening to it, as I was editing, I'm leaving that in there. Like, that's raw me. I'm leaving that in there. So I [00:58:17] Craig Dalton: Yeah. I do have to say Dave, like I, I, I had that issue early on in the podcast where I felt like I wasn't eloquent enough and I wanted to go in and edit everything out. And, you know, eventually I came to the conclusion like, the, the effort is not worth the. Meaning like people came for this kind of raw conversation and the fact that I may have stumbled over my words, et cetera, like that's just part of the conversation and yeah, just gotta go with it. [00:58:48] Dave Mable: Yeah. And it's, it's a, okay, uh, Don, uh, Dan Patrick says, um, quite a bit, [00:58:54] Craig Dalton: Yeah. [00:58:55] Dave Mable: you know what I mean? [00:58:57] Craig Dalton: exactly. [00:58:58] Dave Mable: Well listen, we've been, uh, just about an hour. I really have enjoyed getting to know you face to face here. I'd love to meet you on the bike sometime, whether I make it to Cal, California, whether you make it to Iowa or we meet somewhere in between. Uh, do you have any big rides planned this year? [00:59:18] Craig Dalton: I'm still like, I'm still thinking about my schedule and I probably spend too much time thinking about that. This is the off that one of those positive offshoots of like, I feel like I have the opportunity. If I, if I'm, if I can afford it and get the time off from the family and work, like, there's a ton of things that I can do. Um, and I, I need to get my head around here in January, like, what are the things I really wanna advocate for myself? There's a few races that I'm super keen to do. One being Rebecca's private Idaho. The second being, uh, the Oregon Trail gravel grinder. The weeklong stage. Both, you know, super great reputations. I love the idea of multiple day events because I feel like when you travel to go do one of these events, um, [01:00:10] Dave Mable: events, [01:00:11] Craig Dalton: you're taking up the time anyway, so you might as well ride and enjoy that area for multiple days versus popping in, being super anxious about a race and then just doing that race. So I'm really trying to think about that. I had the great fortune of going to Jer with track travel in November, and that was fantastic. So I'm super bullish on like just the general idea of gravel travel. So, Long answer to your question, definitely you'll see me at at at a handful of events this year, and definitely like I hope to do at least one cycling vacation type trip. [01:00:46] Dave Mable: Ah, very. Very cool. Well, you're, you're welcome to come out and put your 28 millimeter road tires on and do rag Bry with us. It's a fifth 50th anniversary of Rag Bry and I'm an old hat at Rag Bry, so if you want to come out and spend a week riding on the road and eating pie drinking beer, that's about it. That's about what we do. Ride our bikes. Eat pine, drink beer. Uh, you're always [01:01:13] Craig Dalton: uh, I appreciate that, Dave. I've had a couple Iowans on the podcast talking about various events there, and gosh, we, there's so many places to go. I would love to end up in Iowa, one of these years. [01:01:24] Dave Mable: Yeah. Well, you, you've got a, a friendly face here and you got my number, so look me up. Yep. [01:01:30] Craig Dalton: Right on. [01:01:31] Dave Mable: All right. Well thanks tons and, uh, good luck with the pod. Say hey to Randall. Tell 'em I enjoy listening to, uh, his conversations as well as yours and keep up the good work. [01:01:41] Craig Dalton: Yeah, I definitely will, and it was a pleasure being on the show, Dave. I appreciate what you're doing. [01:01:45] Dave Mable: I, uh, I appreciate that you're, uh, a good, um, role model for me. [01:01:49] Craig Dalton: Chairs. So that's going to do it for this week's conversation. Big, thanks to Dave Mabel for having me on bike. Talk with Dave. I hope you as a loyal listener, enjoyed getting to know me a little bit better. If you have any questions about the things that I've done or want to get connected with me. I encourage you to join the ridership. That's simply www.theridership.com. That's a free global cycling community. We created to connect gravel and adventure, cyclists. From all around the world. So I think we'll leave it at that this week. And as always until next time. Here's to finding some dirt onto your wheels.  

Gary Fisher has cemented his name in the annals of bicycle history already as the father of the mountain bike. Now, the dapper general of all things dirt has turned his attention to a new opportunity for revolution.As the e-bike world has expanded over the last several years, the physical products have ranged anywhere from meticulous but pricey to absolutely cheap and dicey. Gary Fisher's new company, Morelle, aims to change that spectrum entirely.Fisher joins host Dan Cavallari on the Slow Guy on the Fast Ride podcast to give a few hints as to what Morelle bikes might offer consumers — the bottom line is that Gary Fisher intends to pick up where so many other companies have failed on battery efficiency, design, and price. While Morelle isn't ready for primetime yet, Fisher walks us through some of the unique features we can expect to see on the bikes when they do launch. And in true Fisher fashion, the story threads through years of mountain bike design, riding with members of the Grateful Dead, and trippy light shows. Be sure to check out our other podcasts, videos, and live streams, and subscribe wherever you get our stories. Dawn Patrol MTBThe Practical StillMental HealthleteTheme music: "This Year" by Angela Sheik

Show #207 - Sven, some semblance of JK and Tony discuss rain, Pinnacle's closing, Gary Fisher and eBikes, and pimp a couple State Bicycle Klunkers. Plus, Sven gets burned! You'll have to listen to the very end! Talkin' Schmack! Pinnacle has closed Chewey's new show Callin' out our show! Well mostly Tony. Kitty Bike crash? https://www.instagram.com/reel/CniU6VJJcu3/  Gary Fisher Does eBikes - https://gearjunkie.com/news/gary-fisher-e-bike-brand-morelle  https://www.morellebikes.com/ Sign up for more info? Need Kitsbow stuff? - https://kitsbow.treet.co/ Again with the Astral Hand! Got the vinyl order in. Go Dan Dahl! https://astralhand.bandcamp.com/album/lords-of-data We have 2 of these Black State Klunkers for sale - demos, with frame bag $400 each. So Fun!   Show Beer - Atwater Brewery (Detroit) - POG-O-LICIOUS IPA Let the fruitful taste of the islands refresh you down to your flip flops. This Passion fruit, Orange, and Guava IPA will have you saying Aloha. ABV 6.5% IBU: 44 STYLE: Fruit Beer COLOR: Deep Gold AVAILABLE: Year Round Call-in to 717-727-2453 and leave us a message about how cycling is making your life better! Shit Worth Doin' May 6th, 2023 - May Day Mayhem - Osage, IA June 3rd-10th, 2023 - Wisconsin Bike Week - https://wisconsinbikefed.org/wisconsin-bike-week/ July 28th-29th, 2023 - Riverwest 24 Hour Bike Race - https://www.riverwest24.com/ Bikes! Surly Ice Cream Truck Surly Wednesdays are now built into complete bikes! Surly Wednesday Fatbike Custom Build - Medium - Shangri-La Green Surly Wednesday Fatbike Custom Build - Large - Shangri-La Green Large Schlick Cycles APe for aggressive fatbiking - Purple. Possibly the last APe! Definitely the last Teesdale-built APe! Large Schlick Cycles 29+ Custom Build - Black Medium Schlick Cycles 29+ Custom Build - Orange Wu-Tang Singlespeed from State Bicycles Wu-Tang Yellow Klunker from State Bicycles Large Schlick Cycles Tatanka, Orange. Wyatt Medium Fatbike - Custom Powdercoat  Schlick Fatbikes A bunch of Schlick Growler (Zen Bicycle Fabrications AR 45) frames for custom builds. 29+ Schlick Cycles frames for custom builds Contact info@everydaycycles.com Call-in to 717-727-2453 and leave us a message about how cycling is making your life better! Disclosure: Some of the links on this page may be affiliate links. Clicking these and making a purchase will directly support Full Spectrum Cycling. Thanks!

Welcome to Cycle Systems Online podcasts for 2023. It's great to be back with a stellar episode with John Thorpe from https://fjmtb.com/ From 1980s tracker bikes through to legendary MTB night races and a cult following in the Manchester area, John has built up a reputation for great riding, racing and partying at his own bike park.Marple is no Marin County, but John can certainly match Gary Fisher for a good yarn and the race weekends have rivalled anything at Repack back in those heady days. You can find out more at https://www.facebook.com/FARMERJOHNSMTB and  https://www.instagram.com/fjmtb/

Gary Fisher helps us consider how to do our parts in a local church fellowship. This Bible discussion was held as part of our GETTING RIGHT AGAIN weekend series December 1-4

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

During our special weekend series GETTING RIGHT AGAIN, Gary Fisher helped us better understand the book of Zechariah. This is a Bible class discussion, some comments may be difficult to hear.

Gary Fisher helps us consider how to do our parts in a local church fellowship. This Bible discussion was held as part of our GETTING RIGHT AGAIN weekend series December 1-4

Declan Brooks is a professional BMX rider and BMX Freestyle Olympic Bronze Medalist. Declan grew up in Portsmouth, UK. His Dad was into motorcycling but Dec had other ideas. He got his first BMX at 9 years old and started skipping football to ride his bike. From then on he spent every minute at the skate park. At 16 he thought that he could take BMX further and make it a career.He worked as a plasterer on the side to get money to go to competitions. British Cycling came along and Dec became a full-time BMX Freestyle athlete with the goal to qualify for the Tokyo Olympics. He was the first British athlete to get a medal in BMX Freestyle with a Bronze in 2021. Dec now has his sights set on the next Olympics, Paris 2024. Tune in to find out how Dec got on Team GB, winning Bronze and the whole Olympic experience, his time working at Cirque du Soleil, events, training at Adrenaline Alley, injury & recovery and his goals for the future. You can follow what Declan Brooks is up to on Instagram at declanbrooks and be sure to check out his website declanbrooksbmx.com Like what you hear?  Please consider subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave a short review. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday.For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason Past guests on The Rad Season Show include Bob Haro, Daniel Dhers, Matt Burgess, Gary Fisher, Rebecca Rusch, Terry Adams, Hans Rey,  Caroline Buchanan. Contact Rad Season On our website radseason.com On Instagram at radseason and olirussellcowan On LinkedIn at olirussellcowan Email us at info@radseason.com Thanks for listening & keep it rad!

Bobby and Jens sit down with Gary Fisher the man who coined the phrase 'mountain bike' and was at the birth of the sport. From riding with a young Greg LeMond, to gaining the respect of the Hells Angels, via Timothy Leary and the Grateful Dead... this wide-ranging chat with a cycling pioneer is not to be missed. This episode of Bobby and Jens was a Shocked Giraffe production for Velonews. It was produced by Mark Payne and edited by Tim Mossa.

This week Randall sits down with Enduro Bearings co-founder, Matt Harvey. Randall and Matt go deep on the origin story of Enduro Bearings (circe 1996), bearing science and myth, and how this often overlooked component enables the ride experience. Episode Sponsor: Athletic Greens Enduro Bearings Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: Enduro Bearings [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the show, I'm handing the microphone back to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Matt Harvey. Founder of Enduro bearings on the show. You might've heard us talk about Inderal bearings a few times in the, in the dirt episodes, as I was deciding and debating what bottom bracket to run on my new custom bike. Well, I decided on the Enduro stainless steel bottom bracket. And I couldn't be happier with the performance thus far. I was happy that Randall volunteered to take a deep dive into bearing technology. With Matt, as I think he's got better perspective on the technical elements. And certainly there's no one better to talk about this product than Matt himself. Before we jump in i need to thank this week sponsor athletic greens Athletic greens is literally a product that I take every day. I discovered athletic greens many years ago, as I was recovering from my treatment for Hodgkin's lymphoma. I was looking for something that had the vitamins, minerals and probiotics that I needed to kind of just give me baseline support. After I was through that difficult period of my life. I realized that this was sort of a baseline thing I needed for all my athletic endeavors as well. With one scoop of athletic greens, you're absorbing 75 high quality vitamins minerals, whole food source, superfoods. Probiotics and APTA gins. To help you start your day, right? It's a special blend of ingredients to support your gut health. Your nervous system, your immune system, your energy, your recovery, your focus and aging. All the things. I encourage you to check it out, to see if it's something that might fit for you to make it easy. Athletic greens is going to give you a free one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is that the athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. Again, that's athletic greens.com/the gravel ride. To take ownership of your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance. With that said, I'm going to hand the microphone over to Randall. For his interview with matt harvey from enduro bearings [00:02:37] Randall Jacobs: So I cut you off last time we spoke because there are just too many things that I was interested in diving into. And there's the obvious technical aspects of what goes into making a bearing? Of the myths about bearings that we might debunk and things like this. But before we dive in, just tell us a little bit about yourself. [00:02:57] Matt Harvey: well, I've always been in bicycles ever since I can remember. So I started out as a BMX rat, you know, when I was like 13, 12 or 13, and I started working at a bike shop when I was 13. So I immediately into the mechanical, well, spraying, WD 40 on POJO drive, tra is an exactly super high end mechanical things, but that's how it started. So, you know, and you know, through there, I worked in bike shops, my business partner. Now I met in a bike shop when I was 17. We worked in the same bike shop. I ended up working at Fisher mountain bikes. I got an engineering degree, ended up working at Fisher mountain bikes, wide industries Bianchi bicycles, starting out in warranty. Became a product manager, went to Italy, did their mountain bike wine designed a bunch of road bikes and mountain bikes full suspension road bike that got written in Perry RBA. and that was kind of like when I was looking at bearings because everybody was using plane bearings or bushings at the time. And the Fisher RS one with Mert Lawwell work. That was his design. And one of the first full suspension bikes, I think. Well, not first, but you know what I mean? Like current more modern production type, full suspension bike, I should say. Cuz suspension, bikes go back. You know, turn of the last century. So, so that's when I was starting to look at bearings and rolling elements and that's when they were getting popular. And that guy I worked with at a bike shop when I was 17, he was in the forklift business by then. And he was starting to make bearings for old forklifts. And you know, we hadn't lost touch and we were talking and I started doing drawings for him cuz he needed CAD drawings for certain things. I was working at Bianchi. And then we, at one point we decided, Hey, this could become a business. So let's start making bearings for forklifts and bicycles. And that's what we still do. 30 years later. [00:04:58] Randall Jacobs: Well, and I'm curious, we'll, we'll dive into the Enduro bearing story in a minute, but I wanna dive more into that background cuz there's a few things that I find interesting one is, you have what sounds like a technical understanding of the bike that comes from, getting your hands dirty at a young age. I share that experience. And in fact, working on bikes I think is a great way for any person to learn how mechanical systems work. But then also you worked in warranty, so you saw what was going wrong. How did your experience working in shops and working in warranty inform your perspective on product. [00:05:30] Matt Harvey: yeah. They're all related, right? You can't separate it. Obviously at one point I realized I needed more school to do what I was thinking about doing, I wanted my boss's job. I wanted to do what he was doing, which was designing bikes, but I didn't have the background or experience. So I went back to school, but yeah, I mean, Your hands are in the bikes, you ride bikes. So you get a certain aspect, which is super important, the practical aspect, but then you know, getting into engineering and so forth, you have to have, you know, the math, the, you know, the history, the you know, and then you get into business. You need business stuff too, but there there's a lot of corners. You need to go explore to put the whole thing together. I, I think, and, and that's what I ended up, ended up doing. So at, at the beginning it was practical aspect, you know, seed of the pan stuff, cuz I'm just working on stuff. And that's the way, a lot of the way a lot of things happened in the late eighties, early nineties, that's kind of the period I was working on it. But you mentioned warranty. Yeah. I learned a lot in warranty cuz I saw everything that got broken. [00:06:43] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. [00:06:44] Matt Harvey: at Bianchi bicycles and it was the eighties and. Ola was king, you know, shaman was coming with index shifting, but you know, things were being made in in Italy or, or Taiwan or, or various countries at the time, still a lot in the us. And, and then there was people were trying to, you know, save money and then things break. And what happens with heat treating what happens with why did that thing break? Why was there too much heat treating? Well, I wanted to find out, well, that seems like a good thing. How can there be too much heat treating? So, you know, you learn, I, you see the broken parts, you see a box of broken pedals and that's not good. Nobody likes to break a pedal, but you find out like why things get crispy and break and and all the, so I, I wanted to learn about especially metal steel, aluminum at the time it was Prebon fiber. [00:07:40] Randall Jacobs: Mm [00:07:40] Matt Harvey: But so yeah I, you go into, I went into back to school in metal shop too. And but I, I was lucky because I also had, I was going to Taiwan. I was still working for Bianchi. I was going to factories, seeing things you know, forged, spin, welded you know, all the different ways you make things. So I was, I was getting a practical eyes on learning experience in Taiwan where all the production was kind of going. I was also going to Italy and, you know, Italy was still making a lot of stuff. Then Bianchi was making bikes at the main factory there. I mean, they're getting back to it again, but at the time it was sort of Asia was taking over on a lot of the production. So it was kind of split between, you know, Asia and Italy at the time. [00:08:26] Randall Jacobs: So you were right in there at a number of big transitions in the industry. The advent of the mountain bike, which was very much a us and in particular bay area phenomenon . And in fact I've talked about different tariff codes in for mountain bikes there was a significant domestic manufacturing operation. And materials were that much more critical cuz you had this really high stress application that hadn't really been done before. Like those clunks were not were not holding up all that well. And then the transition to index shifting that's another major transition in the industry. That's the reason why Shao is so dominant today. And also Asia manufacturing, a lot of which was people in the us and European bike industries who were going over and helping to, transfer that knowledge and set up that production in what is now, Taiwan in particular some of the, the best, highest end manufacturing for bikes anywhere. It's no, it's no longer a cost thing. It's a quality thing. [00:09:23] Matt Harvey: Yeah. And in the beginning they were, they had the ability to make really high end stuff, but the knowledge needed to come from the people who were practically riding bikes, because they weren't practically riding bikes. They knew how to make things, but they had to know how to make it now, you know, the Taiwanese it feeds back a lot of times they, they do new products that they develop their own new products that are really great. So, but yeah, you're right. Those were the early days of figuring all that stuff out. [00:09:53] Randall Jacobs: Well, and I'd, and I'd say I definitely see more domain knowledge on the product side in Taiwan than there was in the past, but still it, it does seem that the, the most successful Taiwanese manufacturers are those that have, European or American team that is in the market and kind of on top of the trends and the trends are still largely driven by those two markets. [00:10:15] Matt Harvey: sure. But you know, in Taiwan now it's an entire, since I started there, it's an entirely new generation that has now grown up in the bike industry. And there a lot of 'em are riders now and stuff. And back then nobody was riding mountain bikes who worked at the factories or made stuff or design stuff. But now you have a lot of people there that are enthusiast. And I mean, as big an enthusiast as anybody in the world for [00:10:39] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. True. [00:10:40] Matt Harvey: riding. And so it's, it's an entirely new generation that. I mean, it's great. They've embraced it and they know it and they develop things materials and design it's incredible. And at the time, you know, historically you go back, so Italy was, you know, Italy and France were the huge innovators back when right. They came out well, derailer, it's a French word and Italians didn't embrace it immediately. They had other things, other ideas. But at the time when I went there, it was an interesting time because Italy was king, but not quite becoming, you know, they, they didn't catch the mountain bike wave. They were looking at specialized and these innovators at the time Fisher, all, you know, Richie, all the people that were innovating and they couldn't keep up, they didn't quite cuz they're, they were a mature market and not looking at that. So I was the American brought in to be the eyes and. Practicality of that part which I was, you know, it was a little frustrating cuz you couldn't quite keep up and then the name Bianchi and mountain bikes at the time no people are gonna buy a, a Fisher or a Richie or something or an Ibis, you know? So that was a uphill battle and that, and that's why European brands or track, you know, they bought mountain bike brands. They bought, you know, Gary Fisher brand and to sell it because they were known as a road bike company. And that's what people were doing at the time. So it wasn't always necessarily not great ideas at these companies. It was marketing to, you know, you have to have it all. [00:12:16] Randall Jacobs: it's interesting, like you think about camp. No. Which was a really great and, and major player, and they're still significant, but substantially diminished, vis Avi Shao and STR the, the two, you know, arguably we have a duopoly in our industry and it's those two and camp Nolo makes some good stuff, but they didn't come out with hydraulic disc brakes until much later. and, and even then I think they work with McGurk on that. I don't know if that's in house now. They're more recent offerings with the ECAR group, I think are, are innovative. And I'd like to see them contest from more spec because the industry does benefit from competition. But yeah, it's interesting to hear your perspective on how the industry has evolved. What year did you enter? When were you working in those shops? [00:12:59] Matt Harvey: So first bike shop was 1976. And then let's see, I worked in shops until about 81 and I ended up starting at Bianchi warranty in the 82, maybe through 80, 85. And then I went over to Fisher. I went back to school. I, I simultaneously worked at Fisher and was in school and, and then I started moonlighting at white industries because Doug white was, he was pretty, he was making titanium spindles for Fisher. So that's how I made the connection there. And I would go over to his shop. They were pretty close by. There was a lot of people around then Dave GU DKG make, he still makes seat clamps. He was making motorcycle stuff. You know, there was salsa. Everybody was kind of in the same area and everything was happening up in Marin then. So, you know, I talked to lot of people, Peter Johnson, all these people that were making stuff. And so I went back when I finished school. I it just coincided with Bianchi needing a product manager for a mountain bike specifically. So they, I got rehired at Bianchi as product manager, and then it was a lot of a lot of whirlwind you know, once a month to Taiwan. Once every two months to Italy, I was on the plane all the time, doing a lot of stuff and developed two mountain bikes there. And that was a transition of going from bushings to rolling elements bearings and seeing that, you know, the bearings weren't hacking it. I wanted bearings cuz they're faster, you know, than bushings bushings are slow in a suspension linkage. And if you're going over a high you know, water bars or high frequency stuff, [00:14:46] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. [00:14:46] Matt Harvey: they're, they're just too slow. Bushings can't react. So rolling elements work better, but they were wearing out fast. So it was trying to figure out how to do better ones. And then that was kind of my transition into bearings. My friend from the bike shop was he was down at his shop in Emoryville making LAR much larger bearings, like five, six inch diameter bearings for forklifts, but they were max type, which we use in suspension, bearings. And I go, oh, that's a cool idea. Forklifts use these full complement bearings full of balls. And why don't, why don't we do that for mountain bikes, but just a make a micro version. And that was the beginning of trying to make bearings for suspension, bikes, and kind of the beginning of it. [00:15:32] Randall Jacobs: so let let's talk about that. I remember a lot of it was cup and cone for bearings. I remember bushings in mountain bike linkages, and then cartridge bearings, when did those come to the four? Is that where you started or were you doing loose ball initially? [00:15:46] Matt Harvey: No, it was cartridge bearings, but yeah, you're you're right too. Like cup and cone were often max type bearings, as you say, no retainer, you know? And, but [00:15:56] Randall Jacobs: which is to say the balls are, are rubbing up against each other, spinning an opposite direction. So there's a high degree of friction between those two surfaces of the balls versus having a retainer with a lower friction coefficient separating them. [00:16:09] Matt Harvey: that's true. But surprisingly the friction between the balls is actually extremely low. Believe it or not. I mean, theoretically, you would imagine that there is, but the balls are so smooth. And I've studied this a little bit. There there's very little friction from the balls rubbing against each other without a retainer. It is a little bit better with a retainer, but it's almost immeasurable. It's really small coefficient of friction between [00:16:35] Randall Jacobs: Oh, that's super interesting. Are there applications where you would not want a retainer then? [00:16:40] Matt Harvey: Usually, bearings run smoother with a retainer. The thing about max bearings is you have to get the balls in there. So there's a a side hole, if you will, to feed the balls into their slots and, and it, it gets into the ball path and that creates more friction than the ball's rubbing against each other, especially in an axial, like if they get off center and they rub against that fill slot. So that's why they're really good for pivot bearings. Not really recommended for hub bearings or, or bottom bracket bearings for that matter. [00:17:19] Randall Jacobs: yeah. Cuz you have those, those non radial loads that are being applied to them. [00:17:23] Matt Harvey: right now, the old [00:17:25] Randall Jacobs: I just wanna state, we did, we did promise a properly nerdy podcast for this. So we're gonna get into the weeds. I'm loving this. I hope that our listeners will as well. There's a lot that goes into bearings that we kind of take for granted [00:17:37] Matt Harvey: sorry, I can go into the weeds pretty quick. Just you [00:17:40] Randall Jacobs: that's, that's the point? That's the point? This I, this is, this is as much for me as it is the audience. So let's go into the weeds. And so you have this, I was actually going to ask how you get the bearings in there in the first place. So you have a, a single location where there's a, a notch, and then you have this retainer that makes sure that the bearings never track into that notch. [00:17:59] Matt Harvey: Well, yeah. So in a retainer bearing, you can assemble the bearing without a fill slot. So you put in all the balls on one side and it kind of, well, I'm not gonna demonstrate it here, but they, they all go in on they're all on one side of the lower race and you kind of snap it together in the, so there's no fill slot on a retainer. There's only so many balls you can get in there because of that design and, and that was developed in Germany in the late 18 hundreds. And then max Barings, or, you know, those were the first ones actually in S hubs going back to 1860 1870s and their angular contact Aless hubs. Yeah. [00:18:39] Randall Jacobs: that's a, I think Bontrager had a line of wheels called OLIS. Is that the same, [00:18:44] Matt Harvey: Yeah. I think they revived the name. But yeah, it's an old, it's a really old hub name and developed for bicycles. Like the first precision bearings are interchangeable. Part bearings were developed for early bicycles. Rolling elements that standardized rolling elements, [00:19:02] Randall Jacobs: Were they even bicycles at that point? Or were they like velos or some of these [00:19:07] Matt Harvey: speeds. [00:19:07] Randall Jacobs: yeah, so, [00:19:09] Matt Harvey: safety bicycle was until 1885. So, but you know, same bearings were used in those and, and bone shakers or, you know, the various things that you saw developed, you know, three wheels and four wheels and so forth back [00:19:25] Randall Jacobs: and this term, this term Velo you know, velocipede and safety bicycle for those who don't know the, the history of the evolution of the bicycle. Can you talk a little bit about that? [00:19:35] Matt Harvey: yeah. So I think philosophy is anything that rolls by human locomotion, whereas safety bicycle, you, penny farthing is the large wheel up front because it was pre chain gearing. And that's how you got your gearing was to use a really big wheel in the front or medium, you know, various size wheels. The race bikes had a huge wheel. Extremely dangerous. And then they called it the safety bicycle with two wheels, the same size chain drive, because it was much safer than a bone shaker or penny far with the big wheel. Cuz the crashes on those were horrendous. [00:20:13] Randall Jacobs: sure you're starting from a high point. And then if you hit anything, you're going, lawn dart but then still fixed gear. And then you had to have ratchet mechanisms or some sort of free hub or free wheel and all these things that we take for granted they had to be invented and evolved and materials had to be there and, and the production tolerances had to be there for all of this to exist. [00:20:34] Matt Harvey: That's right. It, it took it, it was pretty quick how the the development of the bicycle, all the things that came became developed came in quick succession. It's amazing how early things were invented that. We see as quite advanced. In fact, I was just looking at something recently, cuz you know, there's a two speed rear hub that has become pretty popular in the industry classified and you know, the first two speed rear hub was actually like 1896. That's how far back stuff [00:21:03] Randall Jacobs: was, what was the company behind that? [00:21:06] Matt Harvey: it was called, believe it or not. The name of it was they, it was so early. They just called it the hub. That was the name of the company. And I forget the guy who developed it, but he called it the hub and it was extremely popular at two speed rear hub. And then there was like five companies within two years making them back [00:21:25] Randall Jacobs: Got it. [00:21:26] Matt Harvey: We, we are getting into the weeds here but you know, it all comes together. It makes sense because people are always looking for, you know, right now it's a front derailer thing with full suspension bikes. It's hard to put a front derailer on the bike and you know, so the two speed hub here, we have it again because it solves a problem. But it's interesting to know that it was developed a hundred years or over a hundred years ago too. [00:21:52] Randall Jacobs: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And it's also like the, the solution that you had in the bearing space, it had a context. It's another one of these enabling technologies that had to be put in there to have, you know, you look at something like the Delta suspension design that Dave weel came up with for, for evil and just the number of bearings in there. And imagine having that with a bunch of bushings that have a high static friction and so on, it just doesn't work, never mind the high rolling efficiency of our wheels and bottom brackets and all these things. So let's go back to bearings. You alluded to how Enduro got started and you were doing forklift bearings so let's continue on that Bain. [00:22:31] Matt Harvey: all right. So we were making bearings for forklifts that you couldn't get anymore because forklifts last their electric vehicles, or, you know, you can put a new engine on 'em. So the, the car that you of the forklift keeps going, so, or the truck. So, yeah, we were making specifically the bearings that go up and down in the mast that hold the forks. So those have to be. They carry extremely high loads and they don't spin very fast. They're max bearings. And that's [00:23:01] Randall Jacobs: What, what defines a max bearing? [00:23:04] Matt Harvey: maximum fill of balls. So not a retainer bearing. You can put, if you take the retainer out and just fill it full of balls on max maximum fill, you can put about 35% more balls into the bearing and then your, yeah. Your load capacity increases. By that amount, 35% [00:23:27] Randall Jacobs: Mm-hmm so you can either have a bigger bearing or you can have one of these max bearings to fit the same amount of load capacity into a smaller form factor. [00:23:36] Matt Harvey: Exactly. And as long as the rolling element, isn't spinning really fast. Like, you know, it's not an electric motor going 10,000 RPM. It's, it's going maybe I don't know, 20 or 80 RPM, pretty, pretty slow. Even on a bicycle, you know, cranks and wheels. They're hundreds of RPM, not thousands. So, well in a suspension pivot, it's just swiveling back and forth. Maybe 15 degrees. So max bearing makes sense, cuz it's not spinning. You're not looking at a lot of friction from the fill slot or whatever. So we started making we were making those forklift bearings and ironic white industries was actually making 'em for us up in Nevada, those early ones. We made some at the shop. We were turning at the shop, but when we got into larger numbers, white industries was doing it. And. So I was working with them and then we ended up making some hub bearings which are retainer bearings, which for hubs, hubs need to have higher precision to spin smoothly because in a, in a back hub you have four or five bearings that you're stacking up and you need a higher level of precision. That's why we do ABAC five bearings at Enduro for, for hubs specifically, because you need a higher level of tolerance. Now, ABAC ratings are significant in that they give you a level of the precision. However, all of the Abe parameters are not really applicable to bicycle application, cuz it's really a lot about noise ratings and spinning at 10 20,000 RPM, which bicycle bearings never do. So we do. Abe grading, Abe bearings for the ID OD with tolerance to make the alignment. Correct. But we do very deep groove to take higher loads than most high spinning bearings. [00:25:31] Randall Jacobs: Got it. That makes sense. So you have a bigger surface area where the bearings are contacting those races and thus you have less deformation of the balls, less deformation of those races as the, you know, as that as it's spinning. And that load is, you know, coming on and off of each ball. [00:25:47] Matt Harvey: right. And so a lot of high Abbe rated bearings may not be good for bicycles because to reach the noise level testing you want it's easier to make an Abbe, a high Abbe rated bearing with shallower grooves. And less surface contact, but that's not good for a bicycle because you have pretty high axial loads and everybody who makes hubs and bicycle components in general, they're always trying to save weight. So they try and use the lightest weight bearings possible. So you need that bearing to be as robust as possible to resist the the the loads of, of the you know, axial loads, radial loads that, that small bearing has to put up with [00:26:35] Randall Jacobs: And just to clarify terms for those in the audience who don't have an engineering background, radio loads, being those in plane with the bearings. So in, in, in the same plane as the bearings, so if it's a wheel it's like a load that's coming, straight up perpendicular the ground through the center of the bearing essentially versus an axial load is, would be like a twisting load on that same bearing. So if you have a lateral force on that wheel or something like that, which you can have, presumably you have somewhat significant axial loads in especially in like mountain bike linkages and rear wheels and things like that. [00:27:09] Matt Harvey: oh yeah. Or even road wheels, like a rear hub. When you're going up a hill, like a really strong rider out of the saddle, going back and forth. There's significant axial loads and twisting between the cassette mechanism, the, where the Sprockets are and the hub shell. It's, you're literally trying to pull the thing apart because it's not a motor running it on a chain, like sitting stationary, you know, like a you know, a generator motor or something, you know, the human is just, doesn't put out constant power. So that's why you see elliptical. Sprockets and stuff, but you you're basically putting on a, a as you're going up a steep hill, let's say you're, you're twisting everything apart. So there's high axial loads on the rear bearings, and even the front bearing, you know, when you're sprinting the front wheel bearing it's, it's moving side to side when people are throwing their bike and you have now dis brakes too, which puts on unequal loads, cuz it's one side of the hub onto the bearings. So you're pulling the bearings over again with dis brakes and that's brought a whole new well for me, I like it cuz it's a challenge, but that's another new challenge of conundrum of of problems to address with front wheel loading cuz front wheels were just mostly along for the ride with rim breaks. But with dis brakes, you gotta, you gotta look at it closer. They're asymmetric forces on the front wheel now too. Uneven [00:28:37] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. And it's on the hub, it's also on the fork itself. And fork legs had to be redesigned a primary driver of the creation and adoption of through axles was also because the torque loads were so great. And in fact, if that quick release was not tightened fully, you could actually have a wheel eject itself. So yeah, just massive forces in those areas that people don't really consider when they throw on a 1300 gram wheel set and say, okay, this is gonna support my entire weight and keep me safe at 30 miles an hour on a steep mountainous descent. [00:29:09] Matt Harvey: exactly. And, and a lot of times the bearings are even by the designers, surprisingly, sometimes they're the last thing thought about, and they say, oh, we need a bearing to fit in this. You know, it's gotta fit under the disc and over the through axle and it become. Extremely thin. And then you gotta look at other ways to make a solution for that. So it holds up and doesn't burn out. I mean, early in disc breaks that you'd see hubs that the disc would get so hot. You could burn out the, the the disc side bearing in one downhill run, [00:29:43] Randall Jacobs: Oh, wow. [00:29:44] Matt Harvey: and some [00:29:45] Randall Jacobs: I didn't realize that. [00:29:46] Matt Harvey: Oh yeah. And some riders were buying like full tubes of the, this side, front wheel bearings for certain hubs, because they would knock it out after every run and put a new bearing in. It got so hot, it would like boil the grease out of it and just toast the thing. It would practically set the weeds on fire, you know, cuz , it got so hot. I mean the dis brakes have improved and cooling and some other things and people have gotten smarter about the hub bearings on that side. But like about eight years ago we were selling a lot of certain sizes of bearings cuz for downhill guys. [00:30:20] Randall Jacobs: Well, and disc diameters have gotten much bigger. You have aluminum spiders with venting that can help to shed some of that transfer it to the air versus early disc breaks were I mean, a lot of it was what, 140 millimeters [00:30:34] Matt Harvey: yeah, small ones. [00:30:35] Randall Jacobs: lot of, [00:30:36] Matt Harvey: when we start, there was no dis when we started with that RS one with Mert Lawwell we needed a disc break. There were none around. We used to fill disc break from back then. That was a all fiber disk. I don't know if you remember that one, but there weren't any discs that would that, you know, and they faded, you know, faded miserably. That was really hard thing to slow that bike down. [00:30:57] Randall Jacobs: yeah, again, I can't impress upon our audience enough of just how good we have it right now, in terms of how, you can have an extraordinarily lightweight breaking system that will stop you plus your bike, plus whatever gear you have reliably and consistently for long periods of time and everything just works. And it's actually, I, I mean, I remember my first bikes, you know, I'm only, I'm only turning 40, my first bikes didn't just work. There was a lot of service. There was a lot of parts failures and so on, and now things just seemed to be engineered and manufactured to a much higher standard such that it's increasingly surprising when things don't just work. And bearings are a big part of that. [00:31:39] Matt Harvey: And so, what if you don't mind, like the there's one development that I worked on A long from a long time ago, I had heard about this metal that air Airbus had developed and for their, for making bearings in the planes. And I read about it and I immediately wanted it. And there's only a couple foundries that make this particular steel in the world, but I knew it was gonna be perfect for ceramic bearings. And but you know, it was frustrating because the amount of steel that I needed even though it was a lot of money for me who they, they would never be interested in. I, I got my business partner, speaks Germany called the Foundry in Germany and they basically hung up on him, you know, or they didn't hang up on him, but, you know, I was like, yeah, thanks kids. See you later. And I was at a show and I met this guy who. To you know, I, people sign trying to sell me metal all the time. Cuz we make bearings, but this guy, I heard the word nitrogen steel and I said, wait a minute, you can get nitrogen steel. And he's like, oh yeah, you know, I represent the company. So the long and shorts of the story is he's a mountain biker who worked for the Foundry in France. There's only two foundries. So he got me in there and was able to get me some steel. And, and so we'd been making XD 15 bearings now for over 10 years, I think maybe 12 or something. But that material cuz ceramic bearings, they're when you think about ceramic bearings, they're kind of fragile, right? They they're really great because they do spin really well. Cuz you have a super hard ball. It's seven times harder than steel. It won't flex or, or push out of the way deform and but it wears the races out. If there's no grease or. They can rust and all these things, and here's this material XD 15, it won't rust it won't corrode and you can run a ceramic ball in it with dirt, whatever you want and it won't wear out. [00:33:33] Randall Jacobs: It'll just Ize it, whatever gets in there. [00:33:35] Matt Harvey: it, yeah, it burnishes the races it'll like Polish and so you don't get Goling or pitting. So what usually happens with a bearing when it wears out, it'll just, you know, you get dirt or no grease in there and what happens. You get a pothole, essentially. If you're in the race and it's a little pit in the race, and then as the ball rolls over that the P like a car running over a pothole gets bigger and bigger until you feel that it's rough. So that's what happens when a bearing wears out. Well, that doesn't happen with XD 15, nor does it corrode. So, me and this guy, you know, we're, we're, we're still buddies and he he still rides his mountain bikes and he gets me the steel. Still we're still friends, but you know, the bike industry is so small. We're probably 20 minutes of, or not even 10 minutes of production out of this Foundry for all we buy in a. Because Airbus soaks that stuff up by the, you know, it's just aviation uses so much more material than, you know, any sports industry thing. So, I'm just lucky to be able to get it. But it's it's an interesting material to work with. We have to get raw, we can't get tubing, you gotta drill it. There there's a lot of it's hard to make these bearings, but I'm kind of proud of it. I mean, it's my favorite thing that we make because it answers the question when somebody calls and says, I want something to put in my bike and then I never wanna work on it again, which is kind of my goal too. Cause I never have time to work on my bike. And it's just like, I want to, you know, you can put these bearings in your bike and never think about 'em again. So that's why I like them. [00:35:12] Randall Jacobs: well, and this is a great segue into a topic that I think a number of our more performance or competition oriented listeners will be curious about, which is the ceramic bearing landscape, right? There are a few options out there. Maybe they're included on a very premium wheel set. Maybe it's some bearing kit that you can press into your existing hubs, but the perception that these are better or even necessarily faster or more efficient is not really backed up. And there's a phenomenon where, you know, you end up and, and I made this mistake. I. Ceramic bearings early on trying to get every little edge. And the science simply says that, well, it may give you a slight, maybe imperceptible benefit for a few hundred miles and then, the performance is going to a degree rather quickly because they're a significant part of that performance benefit has less to do with the bearing and more to do with say the thinner grease that's being used or the lighter seals that are being used. And then you have contamination, you have the Goling and, and pitting that you just described and so on. So maybe help us to understand the ceramic bearing landscape generally. And what's true and not true about ceramic bearings. How do you make a good one? How do you make a bad one? [00:36:21] Matt Harvey: right. Well, what you just said is, is all true. You know, friction and bearings has more to do usually with the seals and the grease at first grease dissipates. And, you know, after you've ridden it, a couple of rides, it dissipates and it's less of a factor, but right. Brand new out of the box, there's some grease not friction, but resistance [00:36:43] Randall Jacobs: to the viscosity of the grease, the thicker, the grease, the more resistance it applies. It's simply just within the friction of the material within itself. [00:36:52] Matt Harvey: Exactly. And, you know, first of all, the reason you don't see a lot of data about what actual test data about what that is, is because it's really small and hard to measure what that wattage difference is. So the drive train is your drive train is about seven Watts of suck, or if you will, or, you know, the and five of the Watts are the chain because it's basically a chain is 110 plane bearings rolling around on your Sprockets. So that's, that's, [00:37:24] Randall Jacobs: Plain bearings, meaning not having a ball bearing. It's just a metal on metal interface. [00:37:29] Matt Harvey: Rolling element. So it's a, it's a metal, a steel ring that rolls over your chain rings and there chain is extremely efficient. It's great. That's why everybody we use 'em but so that leaves two Watts for all the bearings in your bike. So if you do the math, you know, there's at least 12 bearings. [00:37:44] Randall Jacobs: So two in the front wheel, four or five in the rear wheel. Two in the bottom bracket and then [00:37:51] Matt Harvey: couple in the pedals [00:37:53] Randall Jacobs: Oh, in [00:37:53] Matt Harvey: and the pedals [00:37:55] Randall Jacobs: Yep. Yep. Can't forget that. Usually it's a cartridge ball bearing and then maybe a needle bearing [00:38:00] Matt Harvey: needle bearing. Yeah, [00:38:01] Randall Jacobs: has to fit in that really tight form factor. [00:38:04] Matt Harvey: exactly. So. [00:38:07] Randall Jacobs: for all of that. [00:38:08] Matt Harvey: Yeah. So you're talking under a wat it's it's it's per, per bearing. So it's really hard to measure because not very many people have equipment that can measure under a wat, you know, and even a bad bearing is still under a wat, you know, we're talking 0.2 0.2, five Watts per bearing, something like that. So, but so there are some efficiencies of ceramic what that is, you know, I'll let you leave it to your imagination, but it's not, it's not like, full Watts. Let's say it's you know, and my interest, so ceramic bearings in general are always best as you just pointed out right out of the box, and then they go downhill. From, if you will, from there, they, they deteriorate and you have to keep up with servicing XD 15. The reason I really like it, it's, it's more of a longevity story than a wattage story. Well, it is a wad story because they actually get better over time. The balls burnish, the races and they get smoother, but what's nice about 'em is they don't wear out. And if you don't wanna service 'em, you don't have to. So, you can never open 'em up and put grease on 'em. You can just keep riding 'em and they won't get loose or they won't get rough. They might get rough when you get some dirt in them, but the rough, the dirt will dissipate get ground up or come out and it they're fine again. So that's what I like about 'em. They're if you're talking about wattage there's yeah, they're a little bit better, but it's. Almost immeasurable. So right now we're doing some wattage testing on bearings, but how we're able to do it and see the differences is we have to amplify the tests. So we're, overtraining the bearings so that we get out of one bearing. We can get 10 Watts. Actually it's less than that's seven Watts of resistance, but we're over straining this bearing and we'll publish this next year. You'll see it. But in a way to amplify the results. And then we do comparison tests, [00:40:20] Randall Jacobs: and there's some assumptions that need to be made as to whether the relationship between the, load applied and the change in wattage, is it linear? Is it exponential? That's interesting. And I appreciate how transparent you are about this, because it's, it's a question that we looked into when we were developing our wheel line, which use your bearings by the [00:40:40] Matt Harvey: mm-hmm . Oh, [00:40:41] Randall Jacobs: and I had, I had a great conversation. No, thank you. One, you make a great bearing and two you had product available when we needed it, which at that time was, was a big challenge. I had a long conversation with one of your either support people or engineers. I suspect if it was a support person, they have an engineering background cuz they really knew their stuff and talked about the, the different ceramic options and the only one that. That really resonated with me as a potential offering in the future was this XD 15 because of the purported benefits you cite. But listeners should not lose sight of the fact that this is a marginal gain at best in terms of performance. A lot of it is probably coming from the ability to use less restrictive seals and a lighter lubricant in there as opposed to bearings for themselves. But, the, the benefit is there, but if you are unless you are, you know, either riding to the ends of the earth for years on end and want something ultra durable, or you are a high level competitive athlete with a sponsorship and a team car and a mechanic who works on your stuff, ceramic bearings it's not the lowest lying fruit in terms of improving your performance. But at the bleeding edge, if you're going to do it. You would want to do it with something that maintains its performance advantage over time. And that is not true of a lot of ceramic bearings out there. And in fact, quite a few of them are manufactured to a standard such that they're actually worse out of the box than even a traditional steel bearing. [00:42:11] Matt Harvey: Yeah, it, it depends on, so there's a lot of different balls out there. There's only really there's very few factories in the world that make really good ceramic balls, San GOBA, or Panasonic or Toshiba in Japan. And then there's, you, you, there's a lot of balls you don't wanna put in there that are worse than steel balls. So, you know, that's another reason for the price, because if they're really cheap, ceramic bearings, they're probably really cheap for a reason. Cause I know what the price of the balls good balls are, cuz we buy 'em all the time. But that's the first thing is good. Good ceramic balls. You do on sta if you use, so what we're talking about, the other steel, so there's XD 15 steel that we've been talking about, which is called a nitrogen stainless steel. And the other steel that is used almost across the board is called 52, 100 chromium steel. So that's the, it's a that's the steel that everybody pretty much uses in ceramic bearings and it can rust. It's extremely hard. Get it up to like 60 Rockwell, which is really hard. That's why people, that's why factories use it for bearings it's industry standard. But with a ceramic ball, it can wear it out unless you keep up with the maintenance. So that means when the grease is gone, you probably got about two weeks left before that bearing. If you keep riding, if you're running, riding a couple hundred miles a week, you probably. Couple weeks left and then it's gonna be rough. So you gotta keep up with cleaning it and greasing it. And you know, if you clean 'em and grease, 'em ceramic bearings on a regular basis. They, they last a long time and they work. But that's the reality of ceramic bearings with that [00:44:00] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. I look forward to getting some data sets from you because the XD fifteens are actually something that I'm quite interested in for a future offering for us. They're not cheap, but if you, if you actually want to have the benefits both upfront and over time, it is what it costs. Otherwise unless you have a mechanic constantly taking care of your bearings, popping seals and repacking grease, and so on. You're better off with a high quality steel bearing. [00:44:24] Matt Harvey: Yeah, I think so. But you know, I tell people the story. They still buy the regular ceramic bearings all the time. Cuz I, I just can't I come from engineering background, not marketing. So I just kind of tell it like it is, I'll get 'em anyway and they put 'em in and say, you know what, you're wrong. They, they roll better. I can feel it, but you know, that's, I, I get it all the time and it's like, well, it's okay. You know? It's you know, there is a lot of in the mind, especially with bike racers, it is psychological thing, you know, like, if you, if you're on the best bike you think you have, then you probably are faster too. [00:45:00] Randall Jacobs: yeah. There's that? I'll tell you too though. I was friends with the European pro who I was talking. Because I was just coming up and I was never at his level, but asking does it matter all that much? What you're riding and so on. He's like, you honestly, yeah. I wanna win. I wanna have the best equipment, but there's a lot of parody between what's out there and if you pay me enough, I'll ride a shopping cart. [00:45:20] Matt Harvey: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're strong, you're strong you'll you are gonna win the race. [00:45:26] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. [00:45:27] Matt Harvey: no, it's, that's very true. I agree. [00:45:30] Randall Jacobs: well, I think ceramic bearings, they have a lot of bling factor. So if you say that your product has ceramic bearings in there, it doesn't really matter. If the bearings are better than a non ceramic bearing, it just matters that you can say ceramic bearings. And now you just marked your product. In the case of a wheel set, it's anywhere from several hundred to a thousand or more that you're able to mark that product up because it is perceived as having the best of the best, even if it's not necessarily the case. [00:45:58] Matt Harvey: Yeah. And in, in the case of XD 15 so it, the ceramic ball is perfect for that material. Number one, when we started, there were no XD 15 balls available. So you would have to use chromium steel or four 40 C stainless balls, which is another bearing steel that's out there. But the problem with four 40 C or an unmatched steel ball in XD 15 is at micro weld. And then you do have problems. So with X micro weld is the ball actually under pressure welds itself to the race in certain situations. So for XD 15, you have to run ceramic balls. And the benefits also are that they won't corrode like the XD 15 material. So. They're they're kind of made for each other in, in this instance. [00:46:49] Randall Jacobs: Interesting. It reminds me of a phenomenon with the doors of the space station, where they were finding that the door could seal shut because you had raw aluminum surfaces that had no oxidization on them. And so that it basically would bond and, and weld in that vacuum. [00:47:04] Matt Harvey: oh my God. And then right when alien shows up, you can't get you can't jettison out of the, your [00:47:11] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. So, so thank you for this dive on ceramics. I find it really fascinating and it was no less. So when I was talking to one of your teammates, so let's talk about the bearings that most of us are riding, which is a steel bearing, typically a stainless steel bearing, what goes into a good bearing for all the different applications on the bicycle so this is everything from headsets to bottom brackets and radio bearings versus angular, contact bearings, and so on. What makes the kind of the best bearing for each one of those applications? [00:47:42] Matt Harvey: so it's a really good question. Let's just go to the com most common bearings. The most common bearing in the bike industry is this number 6, 9 0 2. And so that's an industry standard of a bearing in just briefly 6, 9 0 2. The six refers to radio nine is the series. And then, oh two is the internal diameter. That's if anybody's interested, that's how that works. So 6, 9 0 2 though. So it gives you some specificity about the bearing, because that gives you the ID, the OD and the width. However, what's inside the bearing can vary greatly. You can have different size balls, you can have different. So there's no standard on the 6, 9 0 2 as to what it looks like on the inside, but that's the important part, right? So you can buy a 6, 9 0 2 that works in a printing machine. It's very common in big printers and it's going back and forth, or you can put a 6, 9 0 2 and a turbo charger, and now it's going 50,000 RPM. And now you can put it in a hub and it's going 200 RPM. And it has a lot of axial loads that we talked about earlier. So you'd have a different 6, 9 0 2, even though it's a standard bearing in each of those applications. For instance, if you put a bunch of grease, like we do 85% grease fill in a bicycle 6, 9 0 2, because it's only going 200 RPM and you want it full of grease. If you put that in a turbo charger, bearing, going. 40,000 RPM, that grease is gonna fly out and set the car on fire, [00:49:19] Randall Jacobs: I was gonna say, yeah, I was expecting a flammable situation. [00:49:22] Matt Harvey: Yeah. So, for bicycle application, we or I started by designing the inside of the bearing for the bicycle application. So number one, it's got the biggest ball possible, cuz that's your biggest load bearing capabilities to start with that [00:49:41] Randall Jacobs: okay. [00:49:41] Matt Harvey: second you use the deepest grooves possible that you can design around cuz some of 'em are shallow grooves and you have loads side to side loads, axial loads, and you need to support the ball once the ball rolls past the groove and it's on the edge, you're either like doing some damage or it's not supporting how it can. So deepest grooves, largest balls. And then we look at the seals and we do groove type seals. A lot of, so two RS, 6, 9 0 2, 2 RS, two RS litter means two rubber seals. That's but it doesn't tell you what kind of seal. So we do these seals called LL B and L L U. And those are, we actually machine a groove into the seal at that point. And there's two lips that run inside that groove [00:50:33] Randall Jacobs: Machine into the the races, right? [00:50:36] Matt Harvey: yeah. [00:50:36] Randall Jacobs: Where the seal is interfacing with the race? [00:50:39] Matt Harvey: Exactly. And there's always an external groove to hold the seal, but on the ID, there's often just a flat surface that one lip, a two RS seal just rubs against, but it's not very, and sometimes they don't even make contact on cheaper bearings. You know, you can hold them up to the light and see the light shine [00:50:57] Randall Jacobs: oh, wow. [00:50:57] Matt Harvey: well, it's, it's not even making contact. [00:51:01] Randall Jacobs: which means that all sorts of grime and dirt and dust and water is getting in there in a bike application. [00:51:07] Matt Harvey: Right. And so, like our, so our dual lip LL B L O use one lip, keeps the grease in and then the other is kind of a sweeper seal that keeps the dust out from the outside. And then in between the seals, you get some, when you start turning it, the reason for the full grease fill is some grease comes out and that makes an extra grease seal, if you will, on the, on the idea of the bearing. So, that, [00:51:33] Randall Jacobs: inner inner diameter of the bearing. [00:51:35] Matt Harvey: exactly helps keep the moisture from crawling in, or, you know, [00:51:40] Randall Jacobs: The seal is static relative to the outer race, but the inner race is turning be presumably because it's a smaller surface area. So you have less friction [00:51:48] Matt Harvey: Exactly. Oh, [00:51:50] Randall Jacobs: Yeah. [00:51:50] Matt Harvey: engineering mine there. Yeah. So less friction on the [00:51:53] Randall Jacobs: physics, physics nerd. [00:51:55] Matt Harvey: No, that's good. Yeah. And so yeah, and, and the grease so that's the dynamic lip on the inside and the grease. You got kind of a grease barrier there. So on Enduro bearings, you'll have some grease come out and that's a good thing cuz grease is another barrier that catches dust and holds it back from getting inside. So, that's, that's the basics of how we design the bearing. Of course you have to start out with good balls good material, good steel. It's like making bread or you know, food. You, you gotta start out with good ingredients to have good end results. [00:52:30] Randall Jacobs: And when you say good ingredients, you're talking high precision in the formulation, the right heat treatments, really tight tolerances, high hardness that is also consistent across the entire material. And there's all sorts of technologies that make that possible too. There's a lot that goes into a bearing, even if it looks the same as a cheap bearing. [00:52:51] Matt Harvey: exactly. You gotta get the steel from a good Foundry. It's gotta be clean without pollutants in it. And we're lucky cuz we have the industrial side that we, we buy a lot of steel every year. And so we're able to buy from the bigger foundries that supply, the big boys, you know, the big bearing companies, cuz we're a little teeny bearing company, you know, in this, in the universe of bearing companies, but very niche, you know, area. But we do enough that we can buy good steel because of both sides. But yeah, so you start out with really good, 52, 100 or four 40 C or well, XD 15, obviously you have to start out with really good steel and good steel balls and then heat treatment. So for XD 15, that stuff has to be heat treated on ceramic tables in a you have to pull a atmosphere you know, it it's of gas. So to, to do it properly, it's, it's not just in [00:53:50] Randall Jacobs: an atmosphere of gas. Do you mean like you're doing this in a vacuum? [00:53:53] Matt Harvey: yeah. In an inner gas to to keep it stable. [00:53:56] Randall Jacobs: have oxidization or something like this. [00:53:59] Matt Harvey: we do the same with four 40 C and then we do tri cryogenic treatment as well. So you bring it down to almost absolute zero and that normalizes. The steel, so it lasts longer. So these are the things people don't really know about. With four 40 C and XD 15 it's similar heat treatment. Not exactly the same, but it does go from those ceramic table induction heat treatment to cryogenic treatment. And other bearings can be heat treated in like a gas environment without that atmosphere and so forth. That's why they cost less. But you know, there's different processes for different levels of, of bearings. They're not just all the going through the same process says. [00:54:43] Randall Jacobs: yeah. And it's the sort of stuff where even if you have the technical expertise to be able to understand the nuances of this conversation that we've just had. I think the thing to really make clear is that again, two things that look very similar can have very, very different properties in terms of how they perform out the gate and how they perform over time and to make a quality product. Well, when you buy a product, you're essentially trusting that company and that product manager and, and the decision makers on that product to, to really focus on those details. And it's not just the company, it's not just the product manager. It's also, the team at all of vendors. [00:55:18] Matt Harvey: Yeah, there's a lot of things. You know, I obviously go deep here, one other, we do a lot of things that people just don't know about. Cuz you buy it and you see it. And it's like, well, what's the difference between this one and this other one. And we do for the For the suspension, bearings, the pivot bearings, we do a black oxide treatment. And when we do it, it turns the bearing black and people like it, cuz it looks cool, but it's people like black things and it you know, it, there is an advantage to it because it actually does a second heat treatment to the metal besides making it corrosion resistant. But we gotta take those and we gotta grind it off where the ball rolls because you can't have the black oxide treatment where the ball rolls. Well, there's similar products out there and they're black and they're max bearings, but it's almost like a paint that they do, or sometimes it's black oxide treatment, but that they don't take it off the inside of the, where the balls roll. And what happens is if you do black oxide treatment and you leave it on where the balls roll, that stuff rubs off mixes with the grease and makes a nice paste that wears the bearing out faster than if you just didn't do it at. [00:56:29] Randall Jacobs: Yeah, and there's so much of that in our industry. I think that that's something across the board, but we are a highly technical industry. The bicycle is a highly technical product, and there's so much to know in order to do things right, that you can't really expect a rider to know all of this stuff. And so they're like, oh, ceramic, great. Oh, this black coating. Well, it looks like the other one and it's cheaper. Okay, great. I have the, the latest and greatest but I've seen so many examples, so many examples across the industry, including on projects that I have been involved with and didn't have authority over where decisions are made purely for marketing purposes, purely to get you to think that it's a better thing and to spend more money on something that oftentimes at best it's neutral. And oftentimes it actually makes the bike worse in ways that you will experience over its lifetime. [00:57:21] Matt Harvey: Yeah. And it's, it's hard to get, you know, it's hard to get people interested in say bearings sometimes, cuz you don't see 'em on the bikes now they're all buried. Like, you know, new carbon bikes, you, oh, there's bearings inside that thing you, I mean there's not, you know, used to be, you could see a headset, you know? [00:57:39] Randall Jacobs: We used to press them directly into the carbon frame. cuz that was a good idea. There's there's one other thing that I wanted to call out, which I thought was interesting when I was looking through your bearing catalog, which is using different seals on one side of the bearing versus the other and because the, the risk of contamination is always much greater on the exterior facing seal, but the one on the inside. Well there's not much to contaminate there for example, facing the inside of the hub. So you can run a, a seal that keeps the grease in, but doesn't need to be as as tight for water ingress and dust and dust can be lower friction. So even like those little micro optimizations matter. [00:58:17] Matt Harvey: Yeah. And so, you know, if you roll back like 10 or 15 years ago, everybody wanted bearings in their wheels to spin, like, you know, like a metal roller skate wheel, you know, where you spin it and it won't stop or you see those videos, people doing [00:58:33] Randall Jacobs: The YouTube videos look at how efficient my bike is because when, when there's no rider on it and it's up on a stand, it just spins for a long time. And somehow that is a good proxy for how it performs in the wild [00:58:44] Matt Harvey: Yeah. And so if you take the seals out and put sewing machine oil in there, yeah. You can get it. The spin, like CRA you know, old track bikes used to do that. They'd do that. And but it's on a track, you know, but if you're riding out in the rain and stuff so we used to do getting back to your question. We used to do just LL B seals, both sides on the ABAC five bearings, which was real popular wheel bearing. And, you know, in certain environments especially like Vancouver, wet environments, you know, Vancouver, different places where there's a lot more rain. People say, Hey, you know, we're just the water's the grease is getting washed out too quick. We're getting dirt ingression. So we, we always had L L U seals, but L L U if you use a factory, sorry, industry standard, LLL U seal, it's really tight. And [00:59:32] Randall Jacobs: In L L B versus L L U L L U is the, the tighter, [00:59:38] Matt Harvey: medium contact. Yeah. [00:59:39] Randall Jacobs: okay. Yep. [00:59:41] Matt Harvey: Or, [00:59:41] Randall Jacobs: Versus the LLL B, which is [00:59:44] Matt Harvey: light contact. Yeah. LL B light contact, but LL U in the industry is pretty tight contact. So we make it medium contact. So we had to, we reengineered L L U for bicycle industry, basically. So ours is, is medium contact. So it's an acceptable amount of seal friction. If you do it too much, people just don't like the way their wheels spin and it's really sealed. Right. But it just, you know, you spin it and it goes once around and stops. Like if you had a really tight seal in there, so there's compromises [01:00:19] Randall Jacobs: it's kinda like, you want a bike that lasts forever, but are you willing to add that half pound of weight across the entire bike to make it more durable? You know, that's a half pound that I'll add every day, but if you wanna be in the magazine listed at some headline weight, well some people are only looking at that number. [01:00:37] Matt Harvey: Right. Right. And you know, when you, and, and that's a good point if I could just touch on this, like really super lightweight hubs, which people were going crazy, you know, again, 10 years ago with extremely lightweight hubs with really small bearings. And one of my customers did some tests on those hubs, like versus his hubs, cuz they were heavier and he used a thicker axle and so forth. And in some of those hubs, when you're going up a hill, the bearings, the thin bearings, cuz they're so thin, they're only a millimeter. Thickness of the race. They [01:01:15] Randall Jacobs: Oh, they're distorting. Yeah. [01:01:17] Matt Harvey: they're, they're twisting so much that they're actually locking up and skidding. So you, if you're going up a hill, you essentially have a drag break that you're working against and sure. They're light, you know, you just shaved some weight off your bike. But you're working against yourself because that's, that's like the worst case scenario. Now you got a drag break going uphill. [01:01:40] Randall Jacobs: So I think at this point anyone who's made it this far into the conversation should have an appreciation of just how much goes into not just bearings, but the bike generally to make it function as well as it does. And, kind of a sense of the depth of innovation and all the layers of innovation that have to happen at every level, from the steel maker to how it's heat treated to new coatings to how it's assembled. And so on that go into making a product like a 20 pound bike that can go over single track at high speeds, under a heavy rider and do so day in, day out for years on end. I hope also that folks get a sense of. What you compromise when you push up against the limits of that, because technology and material science and so on can take you so far in, in pushing the envelope in terms of performance and weight and strength and so on. But there is a point at which you're compromising something. And so I want to acknowledge how cool it is to hear and detail the innovation that you and your team have done in order to enable the sorts of highly reliable, high performance bicycles that we have today. And then also the transparency on how that process works and the trade offs and so on. And being able to unpack that with you today has been a lot of fun and hopefully has been informative to some of our listeners here. Is there anything else that you think listeners should know about bearings and, and how to think about them and what to look for? [01:03

Hello and welcome to the Outspoken Cyclist.  Thanks for joining me today. He's funny, irreverent, and now he's FREE to be himself – 100% of the time. Gary Fisher, whose ... Read moreOutspoken Cyclist – 8/3/2022

Rebecca Rusch is an ultra endurance adventure athlete, 7 x World Champion, MTB & Gravel Hall of Famer, author, activist and Emmy Award Winner. Rebecca Rusch grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and got into cross country running. In her first job out of college the office had an indoor climbing wall in the building. Rebecca was hooked and ventured across the country to climb. This opened doors to the outdoor community who got her into adventure racing leading to 10 years of adventuring racing and multiple victories in some of the world's biggest races. After a tragedy seeing a friend die in a race and sponsorship drying up Rebecca set a different path into bike riding.Friends invited her to 24 hours of Moab Bike Race and Rebecca recorded the fastest time of any women. She started doing solo MTB races and winning due to her endurance athlete mindset. This launched the second half of her career as a cyclist. She won 24 Hour World's a few times which bridged the gap between her adventure racing and love of exploring with a new venue of cycling. Rebecca continues to do a lot of bikepacking expeditions and events including Iditarod Trail 350 in Alaska becoming the first female finisher. Tune in to find out about Rebecca's Emmy Award winning documentary Blood Road. Bikepacking across Iceland, getting inducted into the mountain biking and gravel bike Hall of Fame. Be Good Foundation, launching Rusch Academy and what's coming up for Rebecca's Private Idaho (RPI) 10th Anniversary. Enjoy and get rad!You can follow what Rebecca Rusch is up on Instagram at rebeccarusch and be sure to check out her website rebeccarusch.comLike what you hear?  Please consider subscribing and leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.  The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday. For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason.com/magazine/Follow Rad Season:Website: radseason.comTwitter: twitter.com/radseasonInstagram: instagram.com/radseasonFacebook: facebook.com/radseasonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/rad-season/YouTube: youtube.com/c/RadSeasonPast guests on The Rad Season Show include Chris Burkard, Bob Haro, Gary Fisher, Caroline Buchanan, Darren Berrecloth.

Scot Delorme, is the President and Co-Founder of A SHOC Energy Drink. Scot fell into the beverage business by accident. Whilst away travelling a family friend reached out about a business opportunity to become a partner in a drinks company. Scot learnt all aspects of the beverage business and eventually took over the company. He started another brand called 24C, an emergency vitamin c packet. He sold the company after just a year. He knew how to create beverage brands which down the road lead to working with Monster Energy where he became VP of Innovation and would come up with all of Monster's flavors. Delorme stayed at Monster for 8 years. He then partnered with Lance Collins who foundered FUSE and BodyArmor to launch A SHOC in 2019 which at the time was called Adrenaline Shoc. Scot wanted to launch a brand that was health, had no sugar that athlete's could drink. They got NSF certified started an athlete team including Paul Rodriguez (P Rod), Chase Elliott, Billy Kemper, Dashawn Jordan. Joining us is sports performance trainer Joe Cancellieri who runs the onsite athlete gym and program at A SHOC. Joe will be running us through their fitness center and Scot will give us the lowdown on how they are building their brand and what campaigns A SHOC has coming up.Enjoy and get rad!You can follow what A SHOC is up on Instagram at ashocenergy and be sure to follow Joe Cancellieri. Like what you hear?  Please consider subscribing and leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.  The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday. For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason.com/magazine/Follow Rad Season:Website: radseason.comTwitter: twitter.com/radseasonInstagram: instagram.com/radseasonFacebook: facebook.com/radseasonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/rad-season/YouTube: youtube.com/c/RadSeasonPast guests on The Rad Season Show include Bob McKnight, Chris Burkard, Pierre-André Senizergues, Bob Haro, Gary Fisher.

Vanessa Ruck discovered the world of motorcycling, rallying and hard enduro after an accident that almost took her life.  Vanessa grew up in England keeping fit in the outdoors doing loads of sports. When she went to University at 18 she got hooked on wakeboarding, snowboarding, mountain biking, anything that got the adrenaline pumping. In 2014 Vanessa's life took a turn when she was out cycling and was hit by a car. The accident changed Vanessa's life as she realised she would not longer be able to do some of the sports that she loved. She turned to motorbikes initially as a way of getting around and adventuring on the open road. After multiple surgeries she started The Girl On A Bike when she was bed bound to channel her energy into something positive. Vanessa shares all the ups and downs of her recovery. Her goal is to make the most out of each day and help others do the same.Tune in to find out how Vanessa Ruck got on in the Tunisia Desert Challenge extreme rally. The physical and mental recovery process, inspiring others through her journey, going from riding Harleys to Hard Enduro, social media and loads more! Enjoy and get rad!You can follow what Vanessa Ruck is up to on her Instagram at thegirlonabike and be sure to check out her website thegirlonabike.comLike what you hear?  Please consider subscribing and leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.  The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday. For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason.com/magazine/Follow Rad Season:Website: radseason.comTwitter: twitter.com/radseasonInstagram: instagram.com/radseasonFacebook: facebook.com/radseasonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/rad-season/YouTube: youtube.com/c/RadSeasonPast guests on The Rad Season Show include Graham Jarvis, Robbie Maddison, Wim Hof, Gary Fisher, Matt Musgrove, Brett Turcotte. 

Wende Cragg has been a part of mountain biking since the beginning of the sport in California in the 1970s, racing and photographing the early Repack races down Mt. Tam. She was inducted into the mountain bike hall of fame in 1989 and curates the Rolling Dinosaur Archive which chronicles the birth of mountain biking. Tell us a bit about your introduction to mountain biking. Was it love at first ride? Which aspects of riding a bicycle off road were most appealing to you? How would you describe the feeling of those first rides? What was your motivation for taking photographs in the early days of mountain biking? What was it like connecting with riders in Crested Butte who were sorta discovering mountain biking in parallel with you and your friends in the Bay Area?How was their idea of mountain biking different from the one being developed in California? Were you surprised to see mountain bikers banned from riding on Mt. Tam in the early 80s? How did you react? Did you get frustrated with the early bikes?Do you think today's mountain bikes make the sport more appealing or accessible? How do electric mountain bikes fit in? What do you hope people get out of seeing and experiencing the Rolling Dinosaur Archive? With so many styles of riding within mountain biking today, which intepretation do you think gets closest to that original ethos? Photo: Rolling Dinosaur Archive Search the Singletracks podcast archive for interviews with more mountain bike pioneers including Joe Breeze, Gary Fisher, Charlie Kelly, and Tom Ritchey. ✏️ A written transcript of this conversation is available to Singletracks Pro supporters: singletracks.com/support --Keep up with the latest in mountain biking at Singletracks.com and on Instagram @singletracks --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/singletracks/support

SEASON 2 / EPISODE 4: With so many great things happening in the biking world at Sugarloaf (@sugarloafmountain), it was natural to have another guest with solid mountain bike connections to the area. I met up with Nick Karahalios (who runs @vintage_sugarloaf) late in the afternoon and he was kind enough to bring along some refreshing beverages from Moat Mountain (@moatmtnbrewco) to keep us hydrated while we chatted bikes. He reminisced about his first rides as a kid in Southern Maine, mowing lawns to get his first Gary Fisher in 1998 from Bob Ash, an eventful Superman through the back of a pickup truck (he was fine, the truck was not), and his love of racing single speeds. -- Included in the "Best 40 Cycling Podcasts" on Feedspot: https://blog.feedspot.com/cycling_podcasts/ Follow on INSTAGRAM Visit iRIDEaBIKE.com -- A Production of I RIDE, LLC Theme Song by Spencer Albee. Want to hear more? Visit @SpencerAlbee on social media and streaming platforms. PLEASE NOTE: Generally speaking, episodes of I RIDE A BIKE are NOT "explicit"... but due to the passionate nature of our guests, there may be language and stories that aren't appropriate for all listeners. Therefore, we are required to label as explicit. This episode of I RIDE A BIKE is supported in part by Allspeed, the Official Bike Shop of the Podcast. With convenient locations in Portland, Bethel and Carrabassett Valley Maine, Allspeed is THE local shop for everything bike. For more information, and to check out their latest hot deals, please visit Allspeed.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/irideabike/support

Terry Adams is a professional BMX Flatland rider. Terry got hooked on BMX at 12 years old growing up in Hammond, Louisiana outside of New Orleans. He would race BMX but what really stood out was BMX Flatland and by the time he was only 16 Terry was entering flatland contests as a professional.From pure determination and hard work Terry's set out on getting coverage in the magazines. This lead to sponsorship deals and competing in flatland around the world. In 2005 he won X Games gold and has been voted Ride BMX Magazine's Number One Ride Award (NORA) winner 3 times. Terry's drive to promote BMX Flatland has seen him on national TV shows like Glee and Ellen. Now at 38 he's training harder than ever and has a packed schedule of events and demos worldwide. Tune in to find out how Terry sets goals, how he trains, property investment, what drives him now, competing plus loads more! Enjoy and get rad!You can follow what Terry Adams is up to on Instagram at terryadamsbmxLike what you hear?  Please consider subscribing and leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.  The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday. For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason.com/magazine/Follow Rad Season:Website: radseason.comTwitter: twitter.com/radseasonInstagram: instagram.com/radseasonFacebook: facebook.com/radseasonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/rad-season/YouTube: youtube.com/c/RadSeasonPast guests on The Rad Season Show include Bob Haro, Gary Fisher, Daniel Dhers, Caroline Buchanan, Hans Rey. 

Bob Haro is the Father of Freestyle BMX and the founder of Haro Bikes and Harodesign. Bob grew up in Southern California riding motocross and skateboarding. When he ran out of money to continue racing dirt bikes he turned to BMX. Drawing was Bob's first passion and started illustrating for BMX magazines and brands. He became the staff artists for BMX Action Magazine. At 18 he started his own business, manufacturing BMX Plates and selling tens of thousands in the process. Bob was racing BMX and riding skateparks at night which became the birth of Freestyle. Parks were starting to close down so he was building his own ramps. They would take their ramps on the road doing Freestyle demo shows across the US and then worldwide. Bob designed the first frame and fork for freestyle BMX. Then partnered with Torker to build the first freestyle bike called the Freestyler and Haro Bikes was launched. Haro Bikes grew rapidly turning over 7 million before Bob got an offer to sell it. He took the offer and started Harodesigns in 1993, a brand and marketing company for the action sports and motorsports industries. Bob went on to design the 2008 and 2012 US Olympics BMX Team kit and continues to be an instrumental figure in the BMX world. Tune in to find out how Bob mixed his love of design with BMX, starting businesses, touring the world on his bike, the boom of Freestyle, BMX in the Olympics and loads more! Enjoy and get rad!You can follow what Bob is up to on Instagram at bob_haro and be sure to check out his website bobharo.comLike what you hear?  Please consider subscribing and leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts. It takes less than 60 seconds, and it really makes a difference.  The Rad Season Action Sports Podcast come out across all podcast players with a new episode every Monday. For show notes and past guests, please visit: radseason.com/magazine/Follow Rad Season:Website: radseason.comTwitter: twitter.com/radseasonInstagram: instagram.com/radseasonFacebook: facebook.com/radseasonLinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/rad-season/YouTube: youtube.com/c/RadSeasonPast guests on The Rad Season Show include Gary Fisher, Daniel Dhers, Caroline Buchanan, Hans Rey, Risto Kalmre. 

To celebrate the last days of summer, we're re-releasing our Patreon special interview with the man who introduced the world to mountain biking: Gary Fisher. Sarah talks with Gary about his sometimes psychedelic autobiography, Being Gary Fisher and the Bicycle Revolution. We also got his opinions on the failed promise of the automobile, the bike boom of the late '70s, and what the world can learn from COVID about building better streets.