Podcasts about private club

Private clubs often pride themselves on tradition—but without strong governance, even the most respected institutions can find themselves unprepared for what's ahead. In this data-driven conversation, Ed Heil talks with Joseph Abely, Executive Consultant at Club Benchmarking and lead author of the Club Benchmarking 2025 Governance Report. Rather than offering surface-level advice, Joe draws on insights from over 400 clubs to reveal what actually moves the needle: board education, succession planning, and long-term strategic thinking. The findings are clear—clubs that prioritize these elements don't just function more smoothly; they outperform their peers financially and operationally. If your board meetings are focused on operational fixes instead of future vision, this episode is your wake-up call.

Streamed live on Apr 29, 2025 The SITCH and ADAM Show! (Full Livestreams)Today's Stories: The FBI arrested a Wisconsin judge and charged her with obstruction and concealing an individual to prevent an arrest, sparking debates over judicial integrity. Amazon now displays estimated tariff costs at checkout for some international shipments, aiming to increase pricing transparency amid global trade tensions. CBS's 60 Minutes aired a critical segment targeting its parent company, Paramount Global, exposing internal conflicts over corporate mergers and financial struggles, raising questions about media bias. Ian Carroll, a controversial online commentator, discussed "J-pilling" Joe Rogan on a podcast, alleging attempts to radicalize the host with antisemitic conspiracy theories, though Rogan has not publicly endorsed such views. Streamer Destiny faces legal scrutiny after a revenge porn law passed Congress, tightening penalties for non-consensual explicit content distribution, following high-profile online controversies. Russia issued extravagant demands to end its war with Ukraine, including territorial concessions and NATO withdrawal, widely dismissed as unrealistic by Western leaders.Our graphic novel is done!!! Thanks to all of you who contributed! New media channel:    / @howtokillafranchise  

   The Kansas City Royals have returned from the dead and are the hottest team in baseball.  With a sweep of the Rays, KC is now 17-15.  Unbelievably, that's only two wins shy of the best in the whole American League.  The boys are playin' some ball and the 8-2 win was a complete beat down.    The Kentucky Derby is set for Saturday afternoon and we've got a preview with everything from the fave to mint juleps to who's singing the anthem.    We have more information about that tragic accident involving John Elway last Saturday when his 35 year friend and business partner fell off their golf cart and died.   The great Stephen Miller has officially topped himself by breathing fire at reporters gathered at the White House.  We have it for you.  That dem senator that had a bromance with the illegal alien gang banger in El Salvador is now distancing himself from the criminal.  We'll explain why.    And our Song of the Week is recommended by a listener in Wichita and it's a fantastic ode to prairie life.  The singer is from a small town about an hour from Wichita and the words are powerful.

The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products.

The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products. Mark Takes Your Calls! Mark Interviews Political Consultant Ed Rollins. Ed breaks down how Trump's policies are similar to how Ronald Reagan's were. The House needs to pass the One Big Beautiful Bill.

Today Mark's President Trump's 100 Days in office. Mark breaks down his accomplishments. Coach Bill Belichick and his girlfriend Jordan Hudson who is 24 Years old got asked a question about how they met, and there was no answer. Mark Interviews Streaming Host Bill O'Reilly . Mark and Bill talk about how CBS could get spun off to a different name or company called Sky Dance. Tariffs have hurt President Trump's economic agenda. Bill explains how he doesn't want o to get hired somewhere that corrupts the news. Journalist Dan Rather was the king of corrupt news. The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products.  Mark Interviews Political Consultant Ed Rollins. Ed breaks down how Trump's policies are similar to how Ronald Reagan's were. The House needs to pass the One Big Beautiful Bill. 

The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products. Mark Takes Your Calls! Mark Interviews Political Consultant Ed Rollins. Ed breaks down how Trump's policies are similar to how Ronald Reagan's were. The House needs to pass the One Big Beautiful Bill. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Today Mark's President Trump's 100 Days in office. Mark breaks down his accomplishments. Coach Bill Belichick and his girlfriend Jordan Hudson who is 24 Years old got asked a question about how they met, and there was no answer. Mark Interviews Streaming Host Bill O'Reilly . Mark and Bill talk about how CBS could get spun off to a different name or company called Sky Dance. Tariffs have hurt President Trump's economic agenda. Bill explains how he doesn't want o to get hired somewhere that corrupts the news. Journalist Dan Rather was the king of corrupt news. The Suspect that stole Kristi Noem's purse has been indicted on Federal Charges. Donald Trump Jr. is thinking of opening a Private Club in D.C. Elon Musk is no longer seen as much working on DOGE because his 130 days are up. Amazon is under heat for allegedly wanting to put Tariff charges on their products.  Mark Interviews Political Consultant Ed Rollins. Ed breaks down how Trump's policies are similar to how Ronald Reagan's were. The House needs to pass the One Big Beautiful Bill. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Description In this episode, Ed sits down with Bret, an expert in change management and communication, to discuss why successful club transformations depend not just on strategy but on how change is communicated. They explore the unique challenges of implementing change in private clubs, the importance of transparency, and how leaders can effectively manage member expectations. From capital improvements to governance restructuring, Bret shares insights on how clubs can proactively shape the narrative, overcome resistance, and drive meaningful progress. Key Moments: The Heart of Change Management [00:00:37] – Bret explains why communication—not technology or funding—is the key factor in whether change initiatives succeed or fail. Why Private Clubs Face Unique Challenges [00:08:46] – Unlike corporations, clubs are often governed by boards and have emotionally invested members, making consensus-driven decision-making essential. Transparency and the Rumor Mill [00:14:06] – The importance of addressing potential changes early and openly to avoid misinformation and resistance. The Role of Vision in Driving Change [00:19:27] – How club leaders can frame their messaging around a long-term vision that aligns with the club's mission and values. Multi-Channel Communication Strategies [00:23:13] – The necessity of using multiple platforms—email, in-person meetings, social media, and club signage—to reinforce key messages. Managing Resistance: What's in It for Me? [00:33:15] – How clubs can effectively communicate the direct benefits of changes to both long-time and newer members. Setting Realistic Expectations and Timelines [00:36:07] – Why major club transformations often require a two-to-three-year horizon, and how leaders can manage expectations while maintaining momentum. Lessons from the Chicago Board of Trade [00:38:53] – Bret shares a case study on how clear, honest communication helped execute a large-scale transformation successfully. Final Thoughts on Change Leadership [00:44:06] – Why inspiring members and staff to embrace change is just as important as the change itself.

Episode Description In this episode, we chat with Jackie Singleton and Kristen LaCount from The Country Club about their approach to club communications. From the evolution of their communications department to managing capital project messaging, they share practical insights on building member trust through transparent, consistent communication across multiple channels. Learn how they've developed a culture where communication is prioritized at every level and how they effectively manage messaging for major club initiatives. Key Moments: Setting the Stage [00:00:25]: Ed introduces Jackie and Kristen, discussing how The Country Club stands out with a dedicated communications team. Communications Evolution [00:01:17]: Jackie explains how club communications has grown from a unique position to an industry-standard role with its own CMAA summit. Early Communications Efforts [00:05:06]: Discussion of how the communications role originated around 2006-2007, initially to handle website needs and online reservations for curling events. Communications Channels [00:08:58]: Jackie outlines their primary communication methods including website, email, push notifications, and strategic use of printed materials. Member Segmentation [00:10:23]: Insights into their email segmentation strategy implemented in 2013-2014, allowing members to opt in/out of various interest-based communications. Capital Project Communication [00:12:31]: Kristen describes their approach to major project communications, emphasizing committee representation and strategic messaging. Campus Conversations [00:16:41]: Jackie shares how they created a dedicated website section for capital planning information to combat rumors and provide easy access to facts. Video Production Approach [00:37:39]: Discussion of their video strategy focusing on authenticity over polish, producing 200-250 videos annually using simple equipment. Squirrel Squad [00:34:34]: How they use different social media approaches for members versus employees, including their famous "Squirrel Squad" initiative for staff recruitment and culture building. Tactical Advice [00:55:09]: Jackie provides practical starting points for clubs looking to enhance communications, including coordinating departmental emails and establishing a consistent club voice. Philosophical Approach [00:52:01]: Kristen offers strategic guidance on building support for communications initiatives by benchmarking against other successful clubs and finding internal champions. Budget Reality [00:49:38]: Jackie notes that their communications budget is approximately 2% of overall club spending, primarily on labor rather than technology or external services.

In this episode, Ed talks with Jason Becker, CEO and founder of Golf Life Navigators, about emerging trends in private club membership and why clubs should prepare for higher-than-normal attrition rates. Jason shares insights from his company's extensive data collection and explains why the real estate market is a crucial indicator for private club membership trends. Key Moments: Setting the Stage [00:00:00]: Ed introduces the current state of private clubs, noting that over half still maintain waitlists with an average of 70 people. Golf Life Navigators Overview [00:03:26]: Jason explains how his platform matches prospective members with clubs using a dating app-like algorithm to reduce attrition rates. Waitlist Dynamics [00:05:27]: Discussion of consumer attitudes toward waitlists, revealing that 70% of prospects don't want to wait more than six months for membership. Real Estate Connection [00:08:15]: Jason explains why the increasing inventory of golf community homes signals coming changes in club membership. Attrition Predictions [00:09:23]: Analysis of why attrition rates might exceed pre-pandemic levels, particularly due to delayed resignations from older members. Member Services Evolution [00:15:13]: Exploration of how clubs need to align service levels with increased initiation fees and focus on time-saving amenities. Demographic Shifts [00:16:52]: Discussion of how clubs must cater to multiple generations while building for the future. Real Estate Strategy [00:21:11]: Jason shares insights on community "capture rates" and how clubs can better control their real estate destiny. Sales Process Evolution [00:25:35]: Examination of why modern membership directors need proper CRM systems and marketing automation. Final Insights [00:29:21]: Jason emphasizes the importance of transparency in club planning and investment strategies.

(episode starts at the 2:50 mark!) Soho House, a private members only club, has been a who's who gathering space for 30 years. and then…..they decided to go public. since 2021, the membership group has been struggling with being exclusive and fast growing. can a company be both? what are the parallels between them and the fashion industry? let's discuss. --Join us over on ⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠Join us over on ⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠Insta⁠⁠⁠ (@thoughtfulthreadspod)Join us over on ⁠⁠⁠Substack⁠⁠⁠Support this small creative platform ⁠⁠⁠here⁠Say hi! hithoughtfulthreads@gmail.com

In this episode, we chat with Dave Porter, CEO and GM of Greystone Golf and Country Club, about how he transformed his club's governance from a traditional committee-based structure to a CEO-led model. Dave shares his journey of building trust, empowering staff, and creating a more efficient decision-making process that's helping the club thrive. Key Moments: Setting the Stage [00:00:00]: Ed introduces the challenges of traditional club governance and why change is needed in today's competitive landscape. The Early Days at Greystone [00:05:01]: Dave discusses his initial requests when hired, including changing how committees report and operate within the club structure. Building Trust [00:11:05]: Insights into how Dave gradually built trust with members and staff through focus groups, operational changes, and transparent communication. Pandemic Innovations [00:03:48]: Discussion of creative member engagement initiatives during COVID, including the still-popular sunset cart cruises. Committee Evolution [00:15:15]: Dave explains how he streamlined committees from 12 to a more focused structure, making them advisory to management rather than the board. Culture Creation [00:40:23]: Exploration of how the new structure enables better staff culture, using the example of "Wimbledon on the Green" event to show improved interdepartmental cooperation. Leadership Qualities [00:43:54]: Discussion of what GMs should consider before pursuing a CEO model, including risk tolerance and leadership style. Member Communication [00:17:16]: Dave shares his approach to keeping members engaged through informal channels like "Happy Hour with Dave" instead of formal committees. Board Meeting Changes [00:32:40]: How board meetings evolved to become more strategic and focused on big-picture items rather than operational details. Final Thoughts [00:50:34]: Dave emphasizes the importance of staff retention and positive culture in creating sustainable club operations.

In this episode, we talk with Russell Bennett, a professional drone photographer specializing in golf course imagery, about the technical and artistic aspects of capturing courses from above. From licensing requirements to creative techniques, Russ shares insights on how clubs can best utilize drone photography to showcase their facilities. Key Moments: Discussing Drone Sightings [00:03:00]: Before diving in, Russ discusses his perspective of seeing drones in the recent news. Getting Started in Drone Photography [00:03:45]: Russ discusses his transition from marketing to drone photography during COVID, starting with golf courses due to his passion for the game. Course Representation [05:30:00]: Conversation about the importance of quality drone footage in representing a club professionally versus settling for basic aerial shots. Licensing and Regulations [06:30:42]: Overview of FAA Part 107 licensing requirements for commercial drone pilots and important airspace restrictions near airports. Shooting Heights and Techniques [15:08:00]: Insights into flying heights and creative techniques for capturing engaging course footage, including low-altitude shots for dramatic effect. Technical Equipment Insights [17:16:18]: Russ explains different types of drones, focusing on the DJI Mavic Air 2S for cinematic shots and the DJI FPV for dynamic fast-moving footage. Drone Versus Handheld Videography [19:44:00]: Discussing finding a balance between using drone shots versus handheld gimbal shots. Shooting Strategy and Timing [23:16:00]: Details about optimal shooting times, with cinematic footage best captured during golden hour and technical hole-by-hole footage during midday. Working Around Golfers [24:55:00]: Discussion of strategies for filming while the course is active and considerations for capturing footage with or without players present. Multiple Day Advantages [27:12:00]: Discussion of why multiple shooting days are beneficial for capturing the best possible footage and ensuring complete coverage. Investment Value [29:16:00]: Explanation of why professional drone footage is a worthwhile investment for clubs, potentially lasting for years on their website and marketing materials. Questions to Ask a Drone Photographer Before Hiring [31:45:00]: Russ suggests asking photographers for samples of the artist's previous work alongside shot-specific insights. Final Thoughts [32:35:00]: Final thoughts are shared and Russ shares his profile, @birds_eye_film (Instagram), alongside his email: Russell.birdseyeview@gmail.com.

Claude Achaume has been working as the private rooms manager for the exclusive 5 Hertford Street Private Club in London for several years and in this podcast, he shares his experiences and some interesting anecdotes that have made headlines!  Claude describes how his years at the iconic Connaught Hotel in London shaped his sense of hospitality and taught him the importance of discretion and tactfulness.   While working at the Connaught, Claude met actors, royalty, celebrities and politicians and he describes some of his most memorable moments.  He tells our listeners why the Connaught was unique and highly appreciated by its guests.   After the Connaught, Claude moved on to the London Ritz where he continued his Food and Beverage career there until 1991.  It was Mr. Julian Payne, the former manager at the London Ritz and a much-appreciated mentor, who introduced Claude to the London private club scene and gave him the opportunity to start working for them. Claude shares his hospitality acumen, his values and why he hasn't considered retirement as of yet.  As a Frenchman living in England for many years, Claude tells us why he appreciates London and why he decided to come back from France after working eight years at the Château de la Pioline in Aix en Provence.  Claude also tells us why it's no longer easy to find experienced and dedicated staff and how he has seen the hospitality field struggle, change and evolve. We also ask Claude to share his ideas on how the private club niche is just one of the many places young people can aspire to work and what skills are needed for this kind of employment. Finally, Claude talks about how 5 Hertford Street Private Club welcomed guests as part of the Coronation of Charles celebration in May of this year.  Understanding royal protocol is just one of the many reasons  why Claude is a very popular, admired and treasured hospitality expert.    

In this episode of the Miami Condo Minute™ micropodcast, host Peter Zalewski - founder of the Miami Condo Investing Club™ - discusses the need for a private club for buyers, sellers and real estate professionals. Read the report: https://peterzalewski.substack.com/p/south-florida-condo-investors-owners

Assessments. They seem to go hand-in-hand with private club membership. Many clubs have voted to assess members for new amenities in recent years, and many more are considering doing the same in the months ahead. Like death and taxes, clubs see assessments as a necessary evil, but are they? In this episode we talk to Jim Butler, CEO of Club Benchmarking who shares his perspective on assessments and how club's can plan for the future more thoughtfully. What he says, may surprise you. Key Moments: • Introduction to Club Assessments [00:00:13]: Ed Heil introduces the topic of club assessments and how they, along with initiation fees, are two factors that often concern prospective club members. • Not-for-Profit Business Model [00:04:45]: Jim Butler explains the unique challenge of private clubs being not-for-profit entities, contrasting with how board members often try to apply for-profit thinking to club management. • Capital Intensity of Clubs [00:06:51]: Butler reveals that the average club has $28 million in gross assets while making no profit, making clubs one of the most capital-intensive industries. • Three Main Capital Sources [00:09:10]: Discussion of how clubs fund capital through three main sources: capital dues, initiation fees, and assessments, typically split equally between these sources. • The Irrigation System Story [00:18:30]: Butler shares an illuminating story about Thorny Lea Golf Club's 50-year-old irrigation system to explain the concept of capital consumption and member responsibility. • Net Worth Categories [00:24:02]: Description of the three categories of clubs based on net worth trajectory: decreasing (red bucket), flat (yellow bucket), and growing above inflation (25% of industry). • Union League Success Story [00:25:32]: Discussion of how the Union League of Philadelphia's success came from understanding the business model and creating more opportunities that members were willing to pay for. • Board Education Challenge [00:31:12]: Butler addresses the unique challenge of educating rotating board members about the club business model, with boards typically changing 3-4 members annually. • Counter-Intuitive Club Economics [00:34:29]: Explanation of how the most financially successful clubs often have the highest food and beverage subsidies, demonstrating the unique nature of club economics. • Industry Evolution [00:38:26]: Butler discusses the dramatic changes in the club industry from 2019 to 2023, including increased capital generation, facility investments, and unprecedented waiting lists at many clubs.

Hey, it's Amy Newmark with your Chicken Soup for the Soul. Today I'm going to share with you one of my most popular pieces on Medium. If you don't know what Medium is, it's a place where writers can get their short pieces published, either by themselves, or in someone else's publication. I started getting published on Medium in April, mostly in two publications which feature interesting stories and great writing. This story appeared in a publication called The Narrative Arc, and it's called Me versus the Male Directors of a Private Club and it talks about what I had to do to be able to play tennis on Saturday mornings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Send us a Text Message.全球私人俱乐部品牌Soho House自创立以来已经在全球已经拥有43个分会，全球会员人数接近26万。2023年Soho House 的年收入增长了近17%，达到11亿美元。但自从1995年开业以来，尽管收入不菲，Soho House 却是每年都在亏损。在最新这一期“柠檬变成柠檬水”播客里，主持人俞骅与Poy Zhong仔细分析了为何Soho House 30年不赚钱，以及私人俱乐部的一些新趋势，欢迎大家收听。请您在Apple Podcasts, 小宇宙APP, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music等，搜寻”柠檬变成柠檬水“。Support the Show.Thank you for listening to our podcasts. We also welcome you to join the "Turn Lemons Into Lemonade" LinkedIn page!

For private clubs who wish to unify and enhance their members' experience with history, Private Club Historical discovers, designs, and displays a club's unique history - past, present, and moving into the future. On this episode of The Wednesday Match Play Podcast powered by Epic Golf Club, Tom details the scope of their work and their range of services, talks about why it is important for private clubs to honor their heritage, explains the intergenerational connections with a club, and details the message a club conveys through visual displays. He also talks about a recent installation at La Quinta Country Club and outlines what strategies clubs can use to attract new members through their historical displays. This was a historical conversation and an honor having Tom on the show. Let's tee off.

The words Selling and Private Club Membership typically do not go hand-in-hand. In fact, most Membership Directors,  wouldn't be caught dead saying they “sell private club memberships”. People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Master Connection Associates, Cindy Novotny, is with me in this episode to talk about SALES processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Episode Highlights 4:08 - How sales and marketing applies to the private clube and hospitality industries. 5:42 - The impact of the pandemic on private clubs 7:20 - Now is the time to train your team 9:51 - You're selling experiences 15:08 - Where clubs are struggling today with their sales and marketing 17:44 - Where to start with training your team 19:46 - Sales is no longer a bad word in the hospitality industry 22:21 - Selling is not cold calling 25:45 - The pandemic made some club leaders "cocky" 28:43 - The best follow up methods for prospects 33:07 - Phone calls or email follow ups? Ed Heil [00:00:00] You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Ed Heil [00:00:13] The word selling, and private club membership typically don't go hand in hand. In fact, most membership directors wouldn't be caught dead saying they sell private club memberships. People sell timeshare properties and vacation packages, but not private club memberships. Or do they? Sales trainer and consultant and founder of Master Connection Associates, Cindy Novotny is with me in this episode to talk about sales processes that every club should implement to create long term success. Ed Heil [00:00:47] Thanks for joining me today. As I mentioned in the intro, you usually will not hear membership professionals in the private club industry talk about quote unquote selling memberships. It sounds tacky. It lowers perceived value, and the stature of the club is overall cheapened when you use words like that. Typically when you're talking about new member acquisition. But there's a difference between saying you sell club memberships and having proven sales processes in place to drive new member inquiries. So with 50% of the clubs in the country enjoying a new member waitlist. Why does this matter? You might ask yourself, well, we know it won't last forever, right? And with most clubs financially stable today, now is the time to invest. And we know that most would agree with this, especially the healthy clubs, because they're making considerable capital improvements to increase the value of the club and make it, and to invest more in their club. So clubs have all been through the ups and downs of the economy with rising and falling membership initiation fees. And you know that that's not good for your brand. But by building strong processes, investing in technology to improve efficiency and reporting, and even redefining the role of the membership team and membership director, your club can be better equipped to weather the storm that you know is coming. Ed Heil [00:02:17] So Cindy Novotny joins me in this episode as we dive into some of the issues clubs have and some recommendations she has for club leaders. Now, she is bold, she's direct, and she looks at the industry extremely realistically from a business and sales perspective, which in this day and age, it's changed so much through the years with technology and how people shop and how people buy. So we caught up earlier this year, and I was able to pin her down for a half hour while she is traveling the globe, and we had this conversation. Cindy, thanks so much for joining us today. Cindy Novotny [00:02:51] Absolutely. I am thrilled to be with you. This is fantastic. Ed Heil [00:02:55] Well my gosh. All right. So if you're listening to this you don't know how long. I mean it's been years. I think it was actually pre-pandemic when we were you know, I was, you know, talking to you and then to lefty and then we ran into each other at PCMA in Savannah. Yes, I think a year and a half ago or something like that. So, man, I'm just glad to catch up with you finally. Cindy Novotny [00:03:16] Absolutely. I mean, I just I think everything you're doing is so great. And, the fact that I am such a road warrior living on the road, jumping from place to place, I'm so glad we have this opportunity. Ed Heil [00:03:28] The road warriors and understatement. I think you would probably agree for the way. The way it's been going for you. So. Well, let's jump into it. You know, for for the listener who maybe hasn't had the opportunity to be part of your training or heard you speak, let's help help people understand the connection between, you know, the hospitality industry. And if you think about that from the perspective of like hotels, resorts and things like that, private clubs are also very much part of the hospitality industry. But how do you see those, the two worlds, maybe if you think about hotels, resorts and that sort of part of hospitality connecting from a sales and marketing perspective or otherwise with private clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:04:08] Well, it's huge. And I, I grew up in an industry that was I worked for private dining clubs, in Chicago, in New York and at a very young age learning, oh, wow, this is kind of cool. And people pay a membership to just come and have dinner. And then I recognize that it's really all about the experience, and it's all about what somebody wants to feel like. Then, as I continued in the hospitality industry, crossing over into hotels and resorts and now private engagement and jets, we do a lot of work, as you know, in private clubs on sales, training and sometimes sales is like, oh, well, we don't have to sell because we're a private club and you know everybody. We've got a list of people waiting to get in. And I always back up and say, yeah, you have a list of people waiting to get in right now. But there was a time when you were fighting to get members because we compete with so many other experiences. It's not just like we're competing private club to private club, we're competing private club membership to a second home or a yacht or something like that. Ed Heil [00:05:13] Let's talk about that. And, because I'm, I'm interested first in your take on that change, that shift in, in what you're seeing out there from the recognition of your clients as it relates to, hey, we you know, we can't just wait for people to walk in the door. We actually have to have more of a process. Are you seeing just how much greater awareness are you seeing around that? Or is it is it been slow, is have been fast, especially with the pandemic being so good for so many clubs? Cindy Novotny [00:05:42] Yeah. I mean, as I say, I can't even say the word C-O-V-I-D. Right? I cannot. But the one thing there was two things that happened. One is zooms and calls and teams. That's now status normal. When you talk to clients, getting them on a call face to face. Okay. That's because of the pandemic. The second is golf. Even golf clubs because we work with lots of golf clubs. Prior to the pandemic, the younger generation, it was dipping down. They weren't. It's like it's I don't want to go to my dad's club and I don't want to get married at my grandpa's club. And there was a lot of that kind of slowdown. And what I saw happen is that even I belong to a private club in Codo de Caza in California, and then also in Cedar Rapids, a private club. But I saw all of a sudden, like, outdoors. Oh my gosh, I don't want to be like, I don't want to be held back. I can't do things where private clubs were giving people the ability to get out on the golf courses, the fresh air, play tennis, pickleball, all these things. And because the private dining there was sometimes less. It was it like jams of people. So now that has taken the trajectory right up. I mean, that that's why so many people are seeing waiting list to get into those clubs, right? Ed Heil [00:07:02] You know, in many ways, because of this lack of maybe pressure, it seems like this is the time for private clubs. If they're thinking they they need to get their membership directors trained and sales that this is the time to do that. Cindy Novotny [00:07:20] Oh right. And and by the way, if you can sell, you'll always have a job. Let me just say that. All right. Transactional order taking will be replaced is being replaced by AI. So if you're just sitting back and managing your membership, what are you doing? I mean, there's a there's a new member behind every member. There's a new event, a new party, a corporate event. There's so much for that incremental revenue into a club where they can have their company sponsor dinners. And so you have to work your existing membership to be able to get that. But more importantly is there's a lot of competition now. There are private hotels, membership only. There are so many more private city clubs, so many more private bars and fun, cool places that unless you're a member, you can't even get in. You've got to know somebody who knows somebody. And because of that, that is starting to dilute some of the traditional clubs where people go, you know what? I'm not going to join. I'm not going to be a member of this club anymore because I actually don't live in the city anymore. I moved out to the suburbs. So I'm, I'm, I'm going to get rid of being a part of this athletic club or this dining club, and I'm going to move out to the suburbs. Secondly, I'm going to rid of my golf membership because do we really need that is a lot of money. I mean, you know, we have to force ourselves to make sure we every quarter get our dining, you know, minimum. Right. And so what happens is a lot of people have that same thought. So if you're not working it to keep that pipeline full, the people just like me now, we haven't canceled our club. But I could say, you know what, I don't even. Why do I even bother? So that's why you have to keep your grit, your nose to the grindstone, a new one, a new one, a new one all the time. Even those that have waiting lists. Ed Heil [00:09:12] Yeah. Interesting. You know. Yeah. There's so many things in there. Let's let's talk about the, part one. Part of it is just the competition. And you talked about this before, and I've heard other people in other podcasts, interviews that people I've talked to that have said, if you're thinking of your competition as the club down the street, you're missing it. And then, you know, three different people have said, look at what the hospitality industry is doing. If you want to see how to really enhance your presence online, if you really want to see how to, sell experiences, look at what resorts are doing and how they positioned themselves. How do you feel about that? Cindy Novotny [00:09:51] Oh, it's all about that. And most of the clubs that I even work in their social media presence is sad. Sad, I mean, and I think to myself, well, they and they say things like, well we can't really show a members event. I go, you're not showing the member and you're not giving the member's name, but you can show the setup because it's like what we've done. But a backing up to that. You know, I look at hospitality as an experience, hence why 40% of our business is outside of the hotel, club, private dining industry, automotive, you know, medical. And you think, well, how does hospitality relate? Because everyone in business today wants an experience. Okay. Even if you're going to a hospital, you know, it's not the clinical side that we're not messing with. But you don't want to go and feel you're already nervous. You want your your. Registration to get into the hospital. Be nice. You want the billing. So if you think about clubs, private clubs. All right. It's like if you really want to go to a tennis match or a football game because you're so in to the game, to the techniques and to what, you'll watch it from your massive screen at home. Okay, that's it. But if you love the experience of going to a football or a hockey game or a tennis match, you don't want to watch it from your sofa. You want to be in those stands and eating that Dodger Dog and having fun and doing what you do. And that's like a club. If I want to go to a fine dining restaurant, there is 1,000,000 and 1 Michelin star over the top. Cool chefs. I can go anywhere and edit everybody open to the public. We all can go. Ed Heil [00:11:39] Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:11:39] But if you want an experience where they actually know you and they call you by name, and they you bring guests and they, they make your guests feel very special. And there's always that certain thing that's not in the menu, but they make for you. And there's that certain cocktail that they know you like and they make it for you. That is an experience. Okay. Same thing with golf. So, you know, my husband's a big golfer, but he golfs at a public course that is small, but they make you feel like a member because there's very few people and it's gorgeous overlooking Lake Michigan. And he actually at time says, you know, I actually like it here better than even some of the private clubs I'm at. Right. Because so if it's just the game, I can get it anywhere. But the club makes it an experience and you have to be trained to know how to do that. And your social media presence, your online presence has to portray that. Ed Heil [00:12:37] Awesome. So I mean, what I'm hearing you say, well, let me ask. Yes, that's a shift, right? Because there's still a lot of private clubs that believe they're selling the exclusivity. Like you get you get to be a member of this exclusive group. But I mean, what I'm hearing you say is really in many ways, that's not enough anymore. It's not enough to just say we're exclusive. You can't get in now. Cindy Novotny [00:13:03] And by the way. That's okay. But not everyone enjoys that tag line. I love exclusivity all the time too. I like, you know, I'm in. You know, I travel all the time. So you know, obviously United Club is for anybody that wants to pay their money. But because I'm global service and I'm global service for life, I've flown 10 million miles. Even when those clubs, as you know, when you travel, if they're too busy, they start stopping people, people that have paid for a membership but not me. I show my ticket, it says Global Service. I'm let right in. Yeah, I board the plane first. I love the exclusivity of that feel, but. I can also fly another airline and get to the same destination, right? The word exclusivity has got to be in combination with experience, and some of the big, big country club groups have lost their edge. They've got they've taken a private, kind of more intimate experience with all the big social memberships, which I'm all about builds your business. But what they do is they fail to forget, oh, you're actually a golf member. You actually pay five times more than what this social member pays, right? Used to be that there's private like at our club. And I have no problem saying this out loud because it's my club. You know, we're golf members, all right? We pay way more money, and we paid way more investment to get into that separate golf bathrooms for us. When we're dining, we go only club members only now. They could care less. Everybody's in there. Doesn't matter. That takes exclusivity and destroys the experience. Ed Heil [00:14:50] Yeah. Interesting. That's a really interesting take on that that that differentiation there. What are the most common things that you see, maybe the most common issues that you're seeing in your work and your consulting membership teams struggle with today? You know, especially as it relates to some of this stuff, you know? Cindy Novotny [00:15:08] Right. First of all, lack of training. They they promote somebody who is young working there. And I love youth, believe me. But, you know, we have to be trained and be developed. So they they just say, oh, well, you were really good. You worked your summers while you were at school and now, you know, you were like a restaurant manager. Would you like to be a membership director? Would you like to. And then bingo. Put them in it. Then they have no idea. They don't know how to reach out, how to talk to an existing member. They're Monday through Friday, 9 to 5 hours. So I'm not even kidding. Some of them. I mean, it's hilarious. Okay. And I'll say to him, you know, if there's a big event going on, a membership event for members, you need to be there and talk to the members and who else they know and and ask about what kind of events they like, because it's not just about the new, getting new members. It's about enhancing what the current members really like. Sometimes we're putting on things for our members that no one cares about. They're like, I don't even like, why? Why are you doing that? And yet some of the things have to be continued to be changed because the age difference, the youth, the people that don't want that, they don't want that, you know, Thursday night card game, they might want a game night for all families of all ages and things. So I think the biggest thing I see is lack of knowledge of the industry, lack of training, lack of how to actually use online presence, social media to find business. Right. How to follow up. We do a lot of mystery shops, of private clubs where we call inquiring about membership and it's like hilarious. Okay, we'll send you out a packet. And by the way, there's 50 people. There's 50 people on the waiting list. All right. So we'll just email and no asking questions. What would we be interested in. That's what I see is one of the the biggest problems. Ed Heil [00:16:59] Yeah. So the training thing is seems like a big thing because, you know, I mean, I think of this from the terms of it's hard to find good people in a lot of industries in the club industry and hospitality I know has struggled with that as well. So let's just say you do have these people who are eager enough, but they really have no training at all, is there? And this is probably a softball for you, but I am kind of interested because it can be a deterrent for a decision maker general manager. But, to invest in, you know, cash. What's it going to cost me to train this person? Right. So where do you start? Where do you start? With someone who just doesn't, you know, an employee who's like, yeah, I'll try that. I think I could do that. Like, how do you start training? Cindy Novotny [00:17:44] So my answer to that is simple. I say to every GM, even the equity, clubs. And you know, when I deal with boards, I'll say, you know, if you say, why should I invest? What if they leave, I go, what happens when you don't invest in training and they stay? And that is the number one biggest issue. And sometimes the turnover could be like they come in, they want to make a name for themselves. Well, remember a majority of those clubs are not looking for profit. So some of them are trying to deliver excellence. Now I happen to work with some clubs like that are phenomenal like El Niguel in Southern California. Unbelievable. They're, you know, head of membership in their general manager and what they do monthly learnings with every single employee training reading books like Unreasonable Hospitality book clubs. I speak probably like once a quarter with them. They are so invested in training and the the actual members members talk about it all the time. I cannot believe how well versed the staff is, and some of them have been there for ten, 15, 20 years. And you and I both know I love to have people stick around if they get continue training. I don't want you sticking around because it's just an easy gig, right? And that's the difference. Ed Heil [00:19:09] Yeah. It's like the the old line is the only thing worse than an employee, who quits as an employee, who quits and stays home. Right? Yeah, it is a it's a hard thing though, you know, I mean, in you're you're seeing more of a shift probably every day than, you know, some of the people that I speak with. But, you know, in our work, we're trying to help people understand the value of marketing, the value of doing things in a different way from an online presence and things like that. Sales and marketing are just words that, you know, historically haven't been really embraced. By private club. So, I mean, are you seeing that change? Cindy Novotny [00:19:46] You know, I'm seeing that change. Oh, hugely. I mean, first of all, I am a sales trainer, sales service and leadership. So even law firms that I work with, even hospitals. But before it, like up until like ten, 15 years ago, I'd be like, well, the law firms we don't sell. Why would we don't sell? Well, yeah you do, because new business development. How do you build your book of business? How do you go from being a young associate to being a managing partner? You have to know how to sell. You don't think sales is a bad word? Private clubs that have that arrogance, that think, oh, well, we're just so good. Everyone wants to join until they start losing members and when they lose members or they lose the spending. Okay. Because it's not just their quarterly spending that they have to do. Depending on the kind of membership you have when you start losing every event, every banquet, every wedding. All of this to all the other unbelievable venues. You are hurting the club. We have to invest the money back to keep the club going. How do you do that if you don't have any new business coming in? We have to make sure we're upgrading the golf courses. We're bringing in better staff. We're hiring a better golf pro. How do you do that? If you don't have that new money coming in to reinvest in the club? So whether you're looking for profit or no profit doesn't really matter. You need new business coming in. So marketing and sales to me have always been two separate things. I believe that marketing has to create the story, has to put that out and make sure the story resonates. Sales has to tell the story. So salespeople have to take what marketing puts out. Marketing, you know, does all of their online presence, all of their work, all of their messaging. Then the salespeople, the membership director has to sell that story. So instead of storytelling, I call it story selling. Ed Heil [00:21:45] There you go. I like that. Although, the name of our company would contradict that a little bit, but I guess I would say the. Well, let's talk about that because, you know, selling, if you are a general manager of a certain age or a certain vintage, or anyone in the club industry of a certain vintage, you think of selling in a certain way. How has selling changed? You talk about story selling. What does that mean, though? I mean, people aren't cold calling, you know, people are, you know, direct mail is, you know, is more difficult. What do you like? What do you see? Cindy Novotny [00:22:21] Well, first of all, I believe and our statistics that we use, I'll find all this stuff as you do. I believe that about 60, over 65% of most decisions in any business are made based on a referral. I would never suggest a cold call as long as I live. I do believe that if you're working your existing members, there's a customer behind every guest, customer behind every member, a customer at every wedding. There's new members, but at every event it's there is so much business, but we aren't working our own members and there's a finesse to that. You're not like my club. I got just I got disgusted with how they did it. Like table in that lobby. When you walk in with all this wedding paraphernalia, I said, guys, and I don't even train for them. I said, as a member, I'm a golf paying member. I said, this looks so tacky. It looks like I'm walking into, you know, four star, three star hotel. You shouldn't even. Where's your membership? Where's your person that handles special events? Why aren't you working? Why are they walking around? You know, turnover in turnover and restaurant managers. At the end of the day, the vintage GM can't wear that. It worked for that. I think the vintage GM has had a wakeup call. And the wake up call has come from the board of directors, from the corporate groups that own those, the Club Corps of the world, right? Even some of the Sterlings, the smaller ones that have less of we need more profit. We need more of this because we're building, we're investing. So when you look at the profitability of some of these clubs, they are being looked at. So a vintage just walk around and have a cocktail with the members, which I'm all about a general manager being all about that, hanging out, chatting, but not investing with that membership director to make sure they know how to go out and work the local community. Volunteer, be involved. That is exactly where they're starting to wake up, because they recognize there's no other way to do it. It's all based on referrals. Ed Heil [00:24:26] In the in the clubs that you have worked with and that you continue to work with. How many of the successful like really vibrant, healthy clubs have a general manager who has more of a business background or is business minded as opposed to just straight F&B? And I ask you that because so many general managers come up from that food and beverage side and they their, their business savvy might not really be there. What do you? Cindy Novotny [00:24:58] All of the successful clubs we're working with, they're all business savvy and they've come up through golf. They've come up to hotels. Lots of them come from hotels. They've come up through food and beverage, but not as much as they used to. Now it is all about, you know, the tournament business. It's all about, you know, that that the hospitality, hotel business, regional kind of executive directors, things like that. And every club we're working with that's successful has a GM that gets it. Hence why they're working with us. Ed Heil [00:25:30] Right. Yeah. Do you feel like the pandemic in the success I mean was it was very good for clubs. Oh yeah. Good clubs is very good. Did it give people a false sense of security or. Right or, you know, club leaders, a false sense of security, do you think? Cindy Novotny [00:25:45] Oh, for sure. And and not just a false sense of security. They got a little bit cocky like, oh, everybody now wants to golf. The year before that, we're running around teaching people how to get to the young people to get them excited about golfing. And I am not exaggerating. It was like the Tiger Woods movement back then, right? Got got the younger generation golfing. Okay. All right. That's done and done. So now you swing up and all of a sudden the younger generations like, I don't want to do that. It's not fast enough. I'm an adrenaline. I'm an adrenaline rush, you know, junkie. I like to go parasailing. And this. And I don't want to waste money on golfing. It takes too long. Boring. The pandemic only allowed people to really like it. Because you could be outside and with your friends, right. And that was, you know, after like, March, April, even our club, because it wasn't our club, but it was the neighbors that live. Some of the neighbors that lived around the golf courses were like calling. They should be out here. I mean, obviously, oh my God, I'm not going to catch Covid on the golf course. But the idea was the club didn't want to stop that. But that was only like two months and then you couldn't get a tee time and the membership and everybody saw that because the younger people and when I say younger, I'm talking 20's, 30's. Right. Sure. They couldn't get on a plane and fly to, you know, Australia and go to where they wanted to go to do the stuff they wanted to do. So they said, all right, we're going to let's enjoy the club. And then that's why, I mean, the rise of pickleball courts, okay. It used to be just for the vintage seniors. Then all of a sudden, you see, you use that. Yeah. Tennis tennis courts are coming down and like, oh, now we only have three tennis courts and four pickleball courts. And that was some of the younger. And so it did. But it to me it's really important that what goes up goes down. It is a mentality that all of a sudden now the revenge spending is back. Luxury travel is back, luxury goods are back. People are, you know, it's really all about spending money. We call it the revenge spending. And so you have to look and say you're membership. You don't you're not tied into a lifetime membership. So I can quit anytime I want. And that money goes away that day. So that's the sort of thing you can never rest on. Well, we're just very popular. Ed Heil [00:28:09] Right? Yeah. It won't last. Just a couple of tactical questions. What I see so often are membership directors that will have people inquiring, especially, you know, up north where we are. This is the time of year people start inquiring about memberships of clubs and there is no follow up. There is someone who fills out a form and it sits there and a lot of membership directors. It almost seems like they have this mentality like, well, if they're interested, they'll call again. Cindy Novotny [00:28:40] Oh, yes. Ed Heil [00:28:42] What's the deal with that? Cindy Novotny [00:28:43] Because they've not been trained. Okay. So we know that they go online, they fill things out. And again I mystery shop all these. I shop them online on their websites. It takes three, 4 or 5 days. No response. I call, they're out of the office. I'm too busy. Busy with what? Busy with what? You're not the golf pro. You're not the food and beverage director. What do you busy with? Okay, so the idea is they've got to be able to have a process in place to be able to catch those leads and follow up with them. And this is part of a daily job of a sales person that understands that. And then second, that they if I hear what they hear it a hundred times, what our GM doesn't want us to look like, we're hungry. Our GM doesn't want to follow up. Get over that too. Because when your GM leaves and you get some hotdog GM in there, there's going to ask you how many new members you brought in. You're going to be dead out of the water. Done. Over. So the follow up is that they just, I think, are lazy. They don't. It's like they sit around doing who knows what. And that is one of the biggest issues today with which lots of hospitality industry companies. But in private clubs, it's it takes days for people to get back to you. And then if you check on a weekend, oh my god. And private clubs weekends are the hot ticket. And you ask someone like you the front desk. No one's ever sitting at any front desk any more to club, no matter how big it is. You go down to the restaurant and say to those I really like, I'm with my friends who belong to this club. I would really like to talk about joining and, okay, we'll give the name. Never Hear back. Now I'm going to give Elm credit again in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. All right. Unbelievable. Their membership director. All over it. I called and said, you know, I wanted a club where my husband could golf when we're there and that sort of thing. Janice. Okay, I'm going to give her name. I mean, Janice, so unbelievable. All right. She responded within an hour of the message. I left her because we're out of state. She gave me all the options and our farm is just over. You know, the membership of. You're a little bit farther. She worked it all out, got us all set up, invited us to dinner for our first dinner. And on them, my daughter. We. We've gone so many times. My daughter now is living at our farm and running that and works for us in the business. So we're have her and she doesn't want to go there all the time, but she can go now and dine or take her friend. Janice follows up with me. And by the way, I don't live there, by the way I'm there. Maybe, I don't know, 4 or 5 times a year. I see you on social media. She'll send me a text. She it. She makes me want to go there when I every time I come into town. That is somebody who understands what we call a luxury retail clientele. Ed Heil [00:31:41] Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:31:42] That's that's it. And she gets. Ed Heil [00:31:44] I get I give you vintage. But now you've given me to client telling and revenge spending. Yes, I appreciate that. Thank you. The, this is something you're pretty passionate about. So, you know, from your perspective, what is the right process like when you think about that follow up that, you know, someone has inquired about membership, they filled out a form membership director, goes, oh, I got an email from someone, or, you know, the form someone submitted a form. What should that follow up look like? And how many times should a membership director follow up? I mean, what have you learned as far as the most you just best practices? Okay. Cindy Novotny [00:32:24] So I used to say it takes 6 to 7 times to touch a prospect before they ever become a customer. Jessica from our team, she last year tracked it. Okay. So from we get a ton of inquiries too. And I'll I'll just walk through my inquiry process. Sure. Which which I teach to all the clubs in the members. All right. The idea is she now tracked it and it's literally now 12 to 14 times. That could be over a year. Ed Heil [00:32:49] Wow. Cindy Novotny [00:32:50] For her to close a deal. Okay. So we know it takes time. You keep going until someone says, don't ever call me again. I'm not interested. I only was checking it out. Never want to hear for you, but that never happens. Okay. Ed Heil [00:33:04] Is that phone call and email or emails and phone? Cindy Novotny [00:33:07] We're all about phone calls. First follow up with email, so I'll kind of walk through it. Got it. So as an example, when you get an inquiry, whoever catches that, which should be the membership director, because very few of them have coordinators and all of that. But you get the inquiry. So and our company info@masterconnection.com comes to me. I'm a little busy. Just so you know, I get them off and I literally look at my phone to I'm constantly looking at my phone because when I'm speaking or training, I might be talking for an hour that another trainer gets up or I walk off stage, I check, so it's no longer than two hours max that I don't respond. And the inquiries come in. And this is what we teach everyone to do, I respond. Thank you so much for reaching out to Master Connection Associates, or thank you for reaching out to the Coto de Caza Country Club at Golf and Racqet Club. I am thrilled you thought of us. I and for me, I have copied Shelly Marlow, Jessica Baker, Carla. I assign it right then. I have copy to follow up with you. Now, if I'm the membership director. I am thrilled you thought of us. The secret sauce right now is what is a good time today or tomorrow for you and I to connect. Ed Heil [00:34:21] Interesting. Yeah. Cindy Novotny [00:34:22] And that's what we do. 100% of the time. Ed. Not 99. Not 89. 100% of the time we get an email back. Thanks so much for your prompt response. I every day I can count them. So appreciate it. I'm not going to be in the office or I don't have time to talk this week. Could we set up a call for Monday? Now for me, my account manager takes over and runs with that. For that membership director, it's like, absolutely. I will send an outlook invite. No phone tag here. I will send an outlook invite for the two of us to connect on Zoom or teams. That's the other thing you just said yourself. When we get on this, even though this isn't a video podcast, you and I are looking at each other right now. It creates more emotion, more rapport. Today's world allows us to send that. We send a Zoom invite to every client. We never have anyone say, I don't want to be on Zoom call. They all get on and then you can share your screen. You can show them the dining room. You can show them this. You can show them that every single time. Ed Heil [00:35:30] Wow. I love that. You know, one of the things I read early on in the pandemic was just how, you know, when more and more of this was happening. They said it builds trust. And notice when people don't turn on their camera. It makes you wonder. I know what's going on. Cindy Novotny [00:35:47] Exactly, exactly. Ed Heil [00:35:49] Yeah. Hey, I am so appreciative of your time today and for you taking, for you to take a few minutes and share some of your findings and your perspective, with the people who listen to this podcast. Anything you'd want to leave people with? As far as just some thoughts, people who are especially the general managers who are struggling with the shift, and sometimes it's dealing with boards who are of the vintage, you know, you know, board members who are more traditional. Is there anything that you would you would say to those people who are really trying to make a change, they just don't know the best way to go about becoming more of a sales operation. Cindy Novotny [00:36:29] So I do work with a lot of the boards of some of the private clubs we work with. So I speak at them, I come in, I talk, and I start out, and this is what every general manager should do is what are our objectives, what are our objectives of the board? Just private club. What do we want to do. You hear the same thing. We want to have unbelievable service. We want great food and beverage. We want restaurant quality food and beverage like we get at unbelievable restaurants all over the city, right? We want to have a the staff feel very well taken care of and feel very good because tips many times are brought are all they're all added on anyway, right. We also want to have profits so we can reinvest into the club. Like this. I hear it every time. And then I go, okay, and this is what every GM say. So how are we going to do that. All right. You got to spend money to make money. So the idea is if we want to have better food and beverage, we need a better chef. We might not have a decent chat. If we want better service, we need training. If we want to make money, we need membership directors that know how to sell for events, because some have a membership director and some have a special events manager, depending on the size. But a lot of times the membership director is doing all the special events too. So just depends. You have to be proactive to book the weddings, to book the graduations, to book the corporate events. You have to be proactive. You know who your members are if you're not reaching out to them. And that is called training. And if you don't invest, you're going to get exactly what you've been getting. Ed Heil [00:37:59] I love it. What a perfect way to end. Cindy Novotny [00:38:01] Excellent. Ed Heil [00:38:02] Cindy, thanks so much for your time today. Cindy Novotny [00:38:04] Thank you. Ed Heil [00:38:09] Thank you for listening. If you find this podcast helpful. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.

Most successful businesses have a defined sales process. One that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. If your club has enjoyed a waitlist, this isn't a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? In this episode we're talking about lead management with Kevin Page, Managing Director at StoryTeller and lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. We'll dive into managing new prospective member leads, increasing efficiency and helping clubs avoid reactive membership recruitment. Key Moments 1:36 - Ed and Kevin discuss typical prospective member intake processes at most clubs. 5:04 - Ed explains the need to help Membership Directors operate more efficiently. 7:00 - Automating the inquiry process for prospective members doesn't have to be "robotic", Ed and Kevin discuss the advantages and consderations of automation. 9:36 - Responding in a timely manner to a prospective member's inquiry is important and email communication that is tailored for that inquiry can add customization while also utilize automation to make it more efficient and reliable. 10:46 - Kevin explains you can still communicate a level of exclusivity with automated email responses. 12:24 - Kevin explains the importance of sending membership information as part of an automated reply to a website form inquiry. Many clubs already send a "template" response which is not as efficient. 15:01 - Membership directors can get valuable time returned to them by having a process that leverages email automation. Membership Directors will spend less time on unqualified leads and more time with qualified prospects. 19:50 - Ed and Kevin discuss the importance of staying in touch with prospective members who are not ready to join this year, but possibly in the future. 21:08 - Kevin recaps the valuable engagement analytics gained from tracking emails sent and opened. 23:02 - Marketing automation can help clubs beyond new member acquisition. Clubs that host outside catering events can leverage similar technology and CRM platforms to manage leads and forecast new business. 25:57 - Ed and Kevin talk about tracking online activity of prospects and how it can help your membership and catering teams prioritize the most qualified prospects. A high performing CRM will also help your team provide accurate forecasts to report back to committee chairs and the board. 31:04 - Kevin talks about the importance of tracking tasks in a CRM so Membership Directors can stay on top of the many responsibilities they juggle. Podcast Transcript Ed Heil: You are listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders ready to increase their club's revenue. Time for change begins right now. Most successful businesses have a defined sales process, one that identifies the best prospects, converts them into leads, and then nurtures those leads with emails into customers. Most private clubs are missing this process. When your club has a waitlist this isn't a big deal, but what happens when the well runs dry? Today we're talking about lead management with Kevin Page, StoryTeller's lead HubSpot strategist and lead management expert. Hey, Kevin Page in the house. How's it going, Kev?   Kevin Page: [00:00:48] I'm great. How are you, Ed?  Ed Heil: [00:00:49] Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. And, I know that our audience is, is interested in this topic because, you know, as you know, working with many of our clients and in clubs that, the actual like, how would you say the actual, like, member application and intake process for that is, is not always the same at every club. And, it can differ from club to club, but in general, it's a pretty outdated process. Like in your work in, in the clubs you've worked. What sort of the typical process when someone expresses an interest or goes to a website to learn more about about a club.  Kevin Page: [00:01:36] Yeah. Good question. Often times, you know, these, clubs will have some type of form on the website, whether that be, contact us form, request a tour, download our membership pricing, something along those lines. And that will send a notification to the membership director that membership director, you know, typically is doing one of two things right there, either reaching out and sending, you know, some type of personalized email, to try to nurture that relationship and get to know the person a little bit better, or oftentimes, they're just sending over whatever information that that particular person is asking for. And, you know, crossing their fingers and hoping that an application comes in soon after.  Ed Heil: [00:02:22] Right. And so, I mean, I'm in truth, I think that we see a lot as well is that there isn't a, you know, there there might be some sort of like download, get our membership guide or something like that. But in so many cases, especially the more, gosh, what would you say? Maybe the more conservative clubs are just like, hey, request a tour, get more information or something like that. And while, you know, I think that it's not like it's not that that doesn't work, right. I mean, it's not like there isn't you're not getting that information, but they're missing allowed, missing out quite a bit if all they're doing is responding. Just. What, like a notification? That's what a lot of people get using club software today is they'll get a notification in their inbox, their email saying, hey, Kevin Page, apply to be a member today. Right. So. They're missing out a lot of stuff, aren't they? I mean, as far as what they could glean from that person.  Kevin Page: [00:03:26] Yeah. Well, what what we oftentimes find when we're working with, with new clubs or consulting with new clubs is there's not much else after that initial outreach. So that initial outreach, many of these membership directors and clubs are, you know, really great at and being on the ball with, hey, those notifications come in. I want to strike while the iron is hot and get out to this person and see if you know they're truly qualified and interested in in joining the club. Others maybe want to either appear very exclusive or, you know, and actually are very exclusive and, and want to, kind of handle the, the sales process with that sort of, dynamic as well. So there's just. Yep. Here's the application process. You know, it's a bit colder. So, you know, either of those approaches. What typically happens is that after that initial approach, it's all right. They join or they don't. And if they don't join, there's very rarely a process in place for, you know, the ongoing nurturing of those people. And as we know, you know, joining a club and membership for most folks is a big decision and a decision that takes some time. You know, a lot of people submitting those forms or understanding or trying to reach out and understanding what membership pricing looks like may not be ready to make that decision within the next 14 days. 30 days, you know, even six months. So it is a bit of a process. But it's not always treated as that type of process, if that makes sense.  Ed Heil: [00:05:04] Oh, for sure. And it's, you know, again, that, not to go too far down how old school a lot of processes are, but they have something that's just not necessarily the most efficient process. And I think the one thing I just don't want to lose sight of, if you're listening to this and you happen to be a membership director, you're going, my gosh, are you kidding me? Like, I've got so much stuff I'm responsible for and frankly, with, you know, social media today and with so much digital communications, not to mention a lot of membership directors are responsible for the club newsletter and other things that they're pulled in a lot of different directions, and we get it. So one of the things that we hope that you're able to walk away from today, if you're listening, is, some ideas and ways you can make that process a little bit more efficient. Free up to do some more things and really focus on the the areas where you can really maybe drive the most success and not just for yourself, but for the club as well. So, Kev, let's talk a little bit about, the automation process. Because when you say automation to people in the private club space, it is almost like oil and water. So "oooh, automation doesn't sound like a personal touch," which is very much what historically clubs have wanted to provide that that level of intimacy, especially since they're joining, there, you know, that prospect might be joining their club. And yet automation can feel very, you know, very cold. So let's just talk about what let's start with maybe what does that look like? And when when we talk about automating the process of someone applying or filling out a form on the website so that the membership director doesn't have to handle each one, what does that look like?  Kevin Page: [00:07:00] Yeah. That's a great question. So, you know, I look at it in kind of two different parts. And the first part of it is really trying to optimize, the, the time of, you know, let's, let's say the membership director you just mentioned, the number of hats that they wear, the responsibilities that they have oftentimes to member retention and engagement as well as driving new members. And so through that automation, what what we're attempting to do is make sure that they're focusing their attention on the right people, the most qualified people. And so a lot of times, you know, the initial outreach is pretty similar prospect to prospect that comes in, but once there's a reply that happens, you know, or some type of actual connection, that's when automation might become a little bit more difficult, because now you've had that connection, and you want to move forward with that context. And so oftentimes what we do with automation is that initial introduction or outreach can be an automated process. And we have a software called HubSpot that we use to actually implement and and execute a lot of these automated actions. It appears that it's coming from your inbox. It looks like, you know, this membership director is is emailing me directly. We can add, what HubSpot calls personalization, where you can actually fill in people's first name or some other information that you might have about them. So it really does look like a personal touchpoint. [00:08:39] Ed Heil: [00:08:41] So let's I'll just say let's dive into that really quickly though, so we can talk about that, that initial engagement. So let's swap out, this automation process to what, you know, for what, membership directors might be doing today. So I am interested in joining the club. I'd go to the membership page and they say, you know, there's a form that says, hey, tell us about yourself. I feel that that, or if you're interested in membership, you know, fill out this form. Right. So I fill it out today, the membership director gets it, you know, and they she replies back to me with you in many cases with membership information, with pricing and everything. And that's done manually. That person actually stops the what does it look like in that automated world? I fill out the form. Then what happens using HubSpot that you mentioned?  Kevin Page: [00:09:36] Yeah. So oftentimes we'll have, you know, some type of or nice design, esthetic marketing email that would go immediately following the form submission. Thanks so much for doing that. We'll have a member of our team reach out. We've just learned over the years that that's just a really important confirmation and touch point to ensure that that information has been received and that we're working on it. What we don't try to do is send a personalized outreach email immediately following a form submission. Right. That looks very automated. We kind of want to create that artificial gap between that form submission and when someone might want to reach out. And clubs are different on that approach.  Ed Heil: [00:10:22] So you can actually set that time right. What you're saying so that it actually feels more natural, not like, hey, I just hit send on my form and next thing you know, in my inbox, I've got a hey, thanks for your interest. So again, what you're saying, I think, is depending on your club and how you feel about that stuff, you could make it, what, 24 hours? You can make it, two hours. You can make it 20 minutes. Is that right?  Kevin Page: [00:10:46] That's right. Yeah. And a lot of that is how maybe exclusive you want to appear or if you, you know, are on a wait list and want to kind of create this sense of, you know, we'll get to it when we can. We're really busy or yeah, we're on top of it. An our after that form submission comes in, there's an automated email going out that looks like it's coming from the membership directors, inbox or email.  Ed Heil: [00:11:12] So, the whole idea of being able to schedule, you know, how much time elapses between when someone submits that form and gets the email is, you know, can create that sense of where a lot of people feel a lot of, you know, membership directors that I speak with at least, are, you know, afraid that it's going to feel too needy. And like you said, you know, it can make it look like, you know, we're not in a big hurry here. We will get back to you on our time. The one thing that I do think is sort of important to think of is that a lot of times when we're filling out those forms, we expect to get that information fairly soon. I mean, that's just one of those things. I think that based on your club and how you handle things, you might want to look at it differently. But one of the other things I know you've you've seen a lot of success with Kevin in your work. Is also when that email goes out that thank you for submitting or for your interest in our club to then also provide whatever PDF for downloadable brochure or if you want to call it that, that you typically send to someone to include it with that email. Is that best practice, do you think?  Kevin Page: [00:12:24] Yes, I do, and it might be easiest to look at that as like a marketing email versus a sales email, if you will. In a marketing email, has that more designed email look might be from membership at your club.com or some type of inbox like that. And it's thanks so much for submitting the form. Here's what you're here's the information you requested. Our team will be in touch shortly. That goes right away following the form submission. And in some cases, depending on how your website might be formatted, when they click that submit form, they could actually be taken to a web page or given that link right there, in that experience as well. But either way, give them that information right away would would be a best practice. But then to have that personalized follow up, come from you soon after, is something that we've found a lot of success in as well. And again, that's, that's really up to you on the cadence. You're probably right now grabbing those form submissions, you know, or a lot of people and copying and pasting some type of message in there anyway. And this automation is just trying to remove that, unnecessary, tedious work from your process.  Ed Heil: [00:14:15] So once someone receives that information, and let's just keep in mind that there are there are a lot of variables, right? I mean, there are a lot of different, ways to set this up. There are a lot of different things you can include and include. So what we're saying is not like this is gospel. This isn't like there's only one way to do this. And the process is really totally customizable. But from that, if if I was the person who applies to the club, I get, I'm automatically sent that information. So now I've actually sort of optimized that time of the membership director that that they get it, they get a notification, right, that I have filled out that information. What happens next?  Kevin Page: [00:15:01] Yeah. So in in some cases it's, it may not even be important to send that notification to the membership director if you're automating that introductory outreach. Because what we typically try to do when we're consulting with clubs is to keep that membership director focused on people who are qualified and who may be, you know, truly interested in looking at membership. And they're getting a lot of inquiries. And these introductory emails that are being sent in an automated fashion can help to understand, okay, who's actually responding to those? And once they respond, that pops up in their inbox, just like any email would. Right. And then they pick up the conversation from there and the automation shuts off. But if that if that, visitor, that prospect doesn't reply to that message, well, then another message could go out in a few days. And another. Right to the point where you probably stop and store that person in your database to be later nurtured, but you kind of, have have work them through that introductory process. They didn't show interest. And now, you know, they're earmarked for something later down the road. Ed Heil: [00:16:14] So let's talk about that later down the road. So, if I'm just recapping what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say is that, is that the membership director might only get notified if that person reaches out again, and which really, to what you were saying earlier, helps that membership director focus on the most qualified leads. I mean, how many times, you know, we see this all the time where we've been in meetings actually with clients, and the membership director gets up and says, oh, I've got to excuse myself because I have a tour that I'm supposed to do. And then they come back five minutes later saying, oh, they are, they were qualified. And you think, wow, well, that was sort of a waste, you know, waste of time and energy and, and that sort of thing. But like what you're saying. So what happens next then? So this is where, you know, we talk about this in the lead in of the, of this episode, which is we all like lists and anyone that's doing what we do, we love to try to help a club get to a point where they have a waitlist. You love having waitlists, but what happens when it's gone? The one thing that we see quite a bit is that you've had people through the years reach out in in some cases, one of our clients I was we were talking about the other day is that's a stack of about 700 names. Like looseleaf, she, she prints out all of the the people who have applied no idea who they are. But now by people filling out the form, capturing their email addresses when they download information, you have a database that's built, that's built up, not just in the cloud. I mean, this is businesses have been I mean, you've seen this. I mean, you can shed more light on this and I can because you've worked so much with us. But database of names of people who have expressed interest, what can be done with that kind of information? I mean, within, you know, the confines of the this discussion.  Kevin Page: [00:18:10] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I mean, oftentimes we know the sort of cyclical nature of, of clubs, and the seasonality. Right. And, and when you might be making a push, you know, especially around golf or around other activities that you may have or sports or things like that, to do some type of re-engagement campaign, typically an email campaign to an audience like that. All the people who have expressed interest in the past but didn't reply to your emails or didn't take, didn't click that button to request a tour, right? They stalled out in the process after requesting information, and that's where they're stuck still. And instead of having this daunting task of, well, I have these 700 names, I guess I could start just ripping emails off to all of them. You have that stored in a database, and you can do it in a matter of clicks to say, let me just piece together a couple emails and shoot it off to this audience again and see what bounces back. See if some of these people, reengage or show interest again or, you know, maybe do take action to request that to or and and reengage in the process.  Ed Heil: [00:19:22] And you had I mean I think this is kind of a just a quick but interesting story. Client of ours has a waitlist. And what they wanted to do is make sure that all the contacts that they also have just stay engaged. They sent an email out to those people saying, join our waitlist, which in full disclosure, I thought was a crazy idea, but it actually had some benefit. Kevin Page: [00:19:50] Yeah, yeah, they had some success with it. So this was about, fall in a, in a climate where winter, you know, outdoor winter golf is not a thing. And so the, the intention of the email was, yeah, join the waitlist. Now, if you're interested in playing golf next year. Right. Because if we get to spring and then you reach out, the waitlist is likely to be longer than it is now in October, November whenever we sent that email. Yeah. And there was some success there. So, just another, you know, creative thing that you can do when you have that database, and that list of names that you can easily, you know, the weather is nice outside in in March. Let's send an email to all the people who've downloaded the guide in the past year. Right. I mean, things like that can be done on a whim.  Ed Heil: [00:20:38] Right? Exactly. And then even scheduling over time and, you know, one of the things that we we also talked about and touched on is. This is when you can start determining the most qualified prospects. What are the different ways that using using a tool, and again, not to pitch HubSpot. We talk about it, but it is a tool that we work with quite a bit. What can you do within a tool like HubSpot to really try to identify the most qualified prospects? Kevin Page: [00:21:08] Yeah, there's a few things, you know, with, with the email, marketing that we've been talking about, who's opening the email, who's clicking the email, who's doing that multiple times? You know, there's people who open an email ten, 12, 20 times. And that's all data that you can see in HubSpot, and do things with take action on, in addition to email. You know, what HubSpot allows us to do is, track visitors on the website as well. You can see which of those prospects are coming back to the website, what pages they're viewing, what, buttons they're clicking, what videos they're watching, to, you know, understand how engaged they might be and sort of also warm up your outreach to that person so it doesn't feel as cold, but touchpoint, and HubSpot is to take it one step further, also allows you to actually attribute points to some of those actions so you can give prospects a score based on how, how qualified they're perceived to be based on some of those things. Email opens, web visits, and information about them, like what type of membership were they engaged in, is it a social member engagement or a, golf member? When what might they have been interested in things like that? Ed Heil: [00:22:27] And to take that even one step further. And not all clubs have catering services or weddings and events, that are open to the public or, you know, some clubs obviously don't prioritize that, but some do. And so by segmenting even. Right. So And maybe if you could just do a quick high level, like how a club might do that and what you've seen as far as being able to capture all those contacts, people who are interested in golf, social and then banquets. Kevin Page: [00:23:00] Yeah, many of the clubs that we work with, also have a, you know, a catering goal in mind or an event, and wedding goal and. Ed Heil: [00:23:10] Monday golf, one of those things. Right? I mean, it's. Yeah. Kevin Page: [00:23:12] Yep. Golf outings. Exactly. Right. So one of the first things that that we oftentimes do in consulting is to establish that segmentation right away. Right. Are you interested in membership or weddings events, something along those lines. Just so we have that to know when we're segmenting and pulling lists for, you know what, we should do an email campaign that promotes, you know, our the fact that we added new tees in our course. Well, you know, you have a list of people that that's probably not appropriate for. And those are all the people who have reached out to you looking for, you know, a wedding venue. Right. So it's really easy to be able to segment those folks when you use an automation tools such as HubSpot. But there's a lot of, you know, a lot of opportunity for segmentation depending on what kind of data you're bringing in. And so we talked a lot about, you know, people submitting forms. But what we recommend when we implement a tool like HubSpot is if people are calling you, if they're walking in and visiting the club and asking for information, if a member referral, if a member refers someone, that all of that information get brought into this tool. So you have all of that prospect information there. You know what those people, what message those people want to hear from you. And you can, you know, attempt to deliver the right message to the right people at the right time, which is kind of the second part of all the, you know, lead management automation conversation that I alluded to earlier, which is more of that user experience and creating a user experience that, that your prospects will, you know, respect and, and hopefully take action on.  Ed Heil: [00:24:58] And if you think about a lot of resorts, high end hotels, those types of experiences, they're also very good at this, very good at making sure you're getting the right information at the right time. So we've talked about, that conversion point, right, filling out the forms and automating that, taking some time off of your membership director, the nurturing of these of these contacts and staying in touch and trying to figure out who the best and most engaged member prospects are, and, you know, and also weeding out those that aren't qualified, which is is super valuable as well. Let's talk a little bit about the customer relationship management software, the CRM. And it's just, you know, if you could maybe just share some best practices, how it's useful, especially at a time when reporting is so important for boards. They want to know what's going on, what the health of the club is. How how are you seeing CRMs being used by clubs?  Kevin Page: [00:25:57] Yeah. You know, the segmentation is something that I already touched on, so I won't go too deep there. But really understanding what people have done, to get into the CRM is a really important step. You know, we work with a lot of, organizations, clubs included, that have a list of names in their CRM or in spreadsheets or whatever they might be using, and they're not sure how they got that or what they might be interested in. So, you know, that's a really important step, is making sure that that when that, when you're collecting that, that it comes in with some of that helpful information. But then from there, it's, it's really important to understand what stage in the journey are, are these folks and, you know, are they have they reached out and inquired about, you know, the membership guide and that's where they start. Did they request a tour? They they took a tour and that's where they started. They didn't show up for their tour and that's where they're at. So building some of these milestones in this, the CRM tool helps you really understand where people are in that overall journey, which can help craft the messaging that's going to be most beneficial to them. Ed Heil: [00:27:08] Right. So just to put this in, what's in it for you as a membership director or as a as a general manager or someone who's trying to really understand what is the health of the club from a new member perspective, to be able to look into a CRM and to see how many people are at various stages of that consideration process or of your, new member onboarding process or application process to say, hey, we have actually, right now, you know, five people that have actually applied and that we're considering we're vetting these. Prospects right now. And let's just say it's five people just using, you know, round numbers at $50,000 a pop. Then you can see we have $150,000 in the pipeline. That's at the stage. People have maybe filled out a form and you might have a lot more there. But if it's a $50,000, you know, golf number prospect, you can actually start to see the health of that pipeline to say, how many people do we think we're actually going to bring on, or move on to our waitlist in the next month or three months or six months? And that information, and I'm sure if you're listening to this, you've sat in these meetings or had to prepare reports for the board so they can see that. And all this information is in one place.  Kevin Page: [00:28:34] Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And, you know, where how many people have have toured this month? Really helpful metric to have, right. Just to know, how many people are doing that? How many people have applied? Where are people, in that journey is incredibly helpful for that pipeline development. But in addition to that, you can also take it a step further and say, what's the probability that will actually close these people based on data? So as you start using these tools, you can understand, well, we have five people right now who have completed a tour. Well, historically we closed about 20% of those people or 50% of those people. So that revenue that you just alluded to, you know, sometimes it can look, oh, wow, we're going to close $200,000 based on what's in our pipeline. But we try to take a realistic look at or you're probably not going to close everyone that's in your pipeline. And so you can look at these weighted sort of reports in order to, get some of that additional information and just, you know, an incredible amount of insights that you're able to pull out of some of these tools when you really get in and start making it a part of your everyday life in probability. Ed Heil: [00:29:51] I mean, what you're talking about, there is something that you know you can do today to a degree with, but it's usually in the form of a hunch like, oh yeah, and and usually it's inflated a little bit, like we closed 90% of the people who go through tour. Maybe. But wouldn't you rather have that data? And, you know, a lot of the things that we're talking about today are, are these are things that we've seen it before, where there membership directors who are tracking it, but in oddball places. I mean, I've seen everything from three by five index cards to something more common, which are just spreadsheets. Yeah, that is the membership. And you might be one of those people, if you're listening, is like you have a spreadsheet and it's fine. It's not like that doesn't work. But when you bundle all of this into one process and one umbrella, to be able to say, hey, we're bringing in new people, well, you know, who are filling out forms, we're nurturing them through email, and we're actually tracking them in, like you're saying, Kev, you're scoring those prospects to find the most, you know, to find the best prospects. All of a sudden this becomes really powerful and and way less manual. Someone isn't going through and filling out a spreadsheet. And that's maybe one of the biggest benefits. What are we missing, Kev?  Kevin Page: [00:31:04] Well, another, you know, feature of really all of these CRM tools HubSpot included is task management as well. So, you know, not only does it do all the things you just mentioned, but also, you know, oh, this guy's this prospect I'm talking to is heading out of town or, you know, wants me to call them back in three months. You know, after they complete this home renovation project and, you know, cash flow returns in their life, and. All right, I'll set a task to follow up with this gentleman in three months. You know, it's it's all there. Instead of, again, trying to make sure that it's managed in a spreadsheet or written down somewhere. Post-it notes. You know, I've seen as well. So, again, just a really helpful way to, to kind of continue to move forward and lean into some of these tools that so many other clubs are leaning into and having success with.  Ed Heil: [00:31:54] Glad you brought that up. I mean, I think that's one of the most powerful things is how do you track your follow up calls today? And by having something that actually feeds you a list of people that you're supposed to call every day or every week, however you want to set it up is is incredible, especially when it's based upon the most qualified prospects at the the the you know, your your foundation is, is feeding you. So, yeah. Super helpful. Anything else? What else are we missing? I know this is really high level, but, you know, the point today is to just hopefully help you think through other ways that you can do your job that make you more efficient, but also give you better data and better information that you can use to provide to your GM or your board or whomever that might be. Kevin Page: [00:32:48] Anything. Yeah. Yeah. A reporting is reporting as such a big part of this in making sure that you have intelligence in your reports, you understand? You know, what might be coming and where some of the concerns might be in terms of, you know, our pipelines getting really light. You know, maybe it's time to go, you know, do some additional outreach or, you know, attend some events, do some ads, you know, depending on what your club is, is interested in doing from that regard. But one of the, you know, one of the things that I'll, I'll say is I'm really passionate about this topic because I've seen so many clubs dump a lot of effort into generating leads. And not a lot of effort, and all businesses, not just clubs, not as much effort into managing those, and managing those properly. And so, you know, you end up with a database or a spreadsheet or whatever, with, you know, list of names that you you may not know a lot about, that you're not really following up with on a, on an ongoing basis. And it can be really difficult. And so when you're able to lean into a tool like this, you can really develop a well-oiled machine for outreach to the people who should be receiving automated outrea ch manual things, you know, when necessary. Right. So someone replies to an email that goes to a membership director. I can now take over the follow up and move people through different stages. Set tasks when I need to. So you're not sacrificing the experience of your prospects, or, you know, anyone that you might be communicating with in these tools? Which is, I think oftentimes a big, roadblock in some of these decisions is that we don't do things that way. That's impersonal. And these tools have come so far, in really making this, appear very personal. Also, you know, saving you a ton of time. So, you know, I'm really passionate about it because I've seen it work time and time again. Yeah. Ed Heil: [00:34:53] And, you know, to your point, it actually is now doing the opposite. It's actually making you seem more attentive and more personal and more connected, which is really what we all want. And, and probably one of the big fears that people have when trying to use this, this, this type of technology as part of their process. So, Kev, thanks. I think we're going to have more conversation around this at some point, hopefully before too long. So thanks for helping out, for being a part of it.  Kevin Page: [00:35:25] Absolutely, I hope so. It was a pleasure. Ed Heil: [00:35:30] And thank you for listening. If you find this podcast helpful. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.  

Jessica Lee and Kelly Santel met at the Club. Got married at the Club, and even had a child... at a hospital... c'mon, there's health regulations... and sometimes it simply doesn't work out. But sometimes, it actually turns into something beautiful in its own unique way.  Listen in to hear the ex-couple, but current business owners, detail their journey of running the University Club amidst a divorce, a pandemic, and coming together to co-parent their 2 children, their daughter, and The University Club. We also delve into the Club's Chef Alejandro Uribe's culinary competition victory at Cooking for the Kids. On the mic this week: @trujillo.media @weisswine Join our Facebook family: @NCFandBPod Follow us on Instagram: @ncfbpod Support our Sponsors: Welcome SYSCO as our Title Sponsor!! Drink better coffee - get Carrboro Coffee Roasters Here

When you think of private clubs, certain things typically come to mind, exclusive perks, luxurious decor and a long waiting list. However, there is more to private clubs than this.From networking with some of the city's high flyers to attending private events, being a member of an exclusive club has a range of perks. Jeff Connon, General Manager, Mandala Club tells us more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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The private club industry enjoys a steady resurgence, with waitlists becoming the norm in markets across the U.S. Furthermore, experts predict the greatest generational wealth transfer in history, from Boomers to Gen X and Millennials, by 2045. So, how will this new generation spend its time and money? Frank Vain, CEO of the McMahon Group, joins us this episode to share his perspective on the future of private clubs, and what he believes will be critical for their continued success. Vain's perspective is unique. As the leader of the McMahon Group, he works with club leaders nationwide, surveys members, creates long-range strategic plans, and provides counsel. Therefore, he has a pulse on the industry and insightful thoughts on what clubs are, and should be, considering as they plan for the future. Generational experts will tell you that Gen X, Y, and Z value very different things than Boomers, and they measure their status and identity in distinct ways. How clubs adjust to these various demographics could be the difference between continued success and failure. The make-up of future club members is changing, and club leaders are struggling to keep longtime members happy while attracting new, younger ones. This balancing act involves many factors, and Frank Vain and his team at The McMahon Group help each club discover the right approach -- because, as we know, all clubs are unique! Key Moments The "Golden Years" of private clubs - 2:57 The pandemic is the best thing that happened for private clubs - 6:25 The target demographic in the "Golden Age" - 15:43 What clubs need to do differently to attract younger members - 20:36 In what areas are clubs investing? - 25:03 What successful clubs can do to stay healthy - 37:00 Podcast Transcript Ed Heil [00:00:00] You're listening to Crushing Club Marketing, a podcast for progressive club leaders looking to increase their club's revenue. Time for Change begins right now.    Ed Heil [00:00:12] The private club industry continues to enjoy a resurgence, with waitlists becoming the norm in markets around the U.S.. On top of that, experts predict the greatest generational wealth transfer in history from boomers to Gen X and millennials by 2045. So how will this new generation choose to spend their money and time? Frank Vain, CEO of the McMahon Group, joins me today and shares his perspective on the future of private clubs and what he believes will be critical to the continued success of private clubs in the future.    Ed Heil [00:00:44] Thanks for listening. So, Frank Vain has a unique perspective as the leader of the McMahon Group. He works with club leaders across the country. Surveying members, creates long range strategic plans for clubs and provides his counsel, his advice is experience to club leaders so that clubs can make the best decisions for their clubs. He has a pulse on the industry and a perspective on what clubs are doing and what they probably should be doing as they plan into the future. And generational experts will tell you that the values of Gen Xers, Gen Y, Gen Z was totally different than the values of Boomers. And they'll also explain to you how they measure their success or their status or credibility in a totally different way. So for Boomers, where a country club is totally, you know, status type thing, it is not really the case necessarily for Gen X, Y and Z peers. In fact, they're more concerned and more interested in experiential type of engagements than they are things like club memberships. So the landscape of future club members is changing. And yet club leaders today who are typically a little bit older are trying to figure out how to balance keeping longtime members happy while attracting young, newer numbers or new younger members, if you will. There are so many factors in this balancing act to consider, and Frank and his team at the McMann Group are helping to figure out what is right for each club. Because, as we all know, all clubs are different. So here's my conversation with Frank Vain. Well, Frank, thanks so much for joining me today.    Frank McMahon [00:02:36] Well, great to be here. Thanks for having me.    Ed Heil [00:02:38] Yeah. So, boy, a lot to cover today. And in what you have called the golden age of clubs or some variation. Sorry, I don't have that, but the golden age of clubs, I guess. Let's start there. What? When you talk about that, what does that mean?    Frank McMahon [00:02:57] Well, I think, you know, it's a combination of things. I mean, in one way, it signifies that we're a little bit out of the wilderness. And in a way, you know, certainly, you know, the financial the Great Recession, 2009, 10, 11 were, you know, pretty tough period, a very tough period for clubs. And and they came back in sort of fits and starts after that. So you had really a good, gosh, 10 or 15 years there of some pretty challenging environment for for most clubs. And then, you know, and so the golden age and saying, you know what I'm trying to signify and that is that while it is an industry that that is subject to to ups and downs over time, we've seen that in the past. I think there is more here. There's a combination of things happening that that are more enduring. And so the golden age signifying that there was a convergence of sort of lifestyle, really a lot of that triggered by the pandemic was certainly a big part of it. There's innovation, whether spurred by the pandemic or other factors. Clubs have really changed quite a bit over the last several years. And then there's demographics. The demographics have turned in their favor where, you know, particularly the millennials now are at the age where club membership makes social and financial sense for them. So that whole golden age is meant to say, yeah, you know, things go up and down. And obviously if there's another major economic break like we saw in 2008, you know, sort of all bets are off, you know, But but really, that doesn't see any sign of that happening in that with with all these things converging at one time. It really ought to be something that lasts for quite a while. And I would say it's, you know, six, seven, eight, nine years you can look out there and all these factors seem to be playing into their favor.    Ed Heil [00:05:05] So maybe if we can put some of that in context within you know, as you started, you go back several years and the industry is in a pretty constant decline up until the pandemic. Is that right?    Frank McMahon [00:05:22] Yes. Yeah. Really over over the course. And I say 2008 or 9 there, but really over the course of a good, you know, 20 year period of time. Number of clubs declined, number of golfers, if you're a club with golf, you know a number of golfers in the US declining for a long period of time, particularly among younger people. You know, you certainly saw the number of clubs went out of business about 20 to 25% of. And we're tend to follow what I would call the, you know, the member owned club. You know, there are other quasi commercial entities and semi-private kind of things that are in there. But when you think about the sort of the traditional member owned club, they all their numbers were down. So yeah, I think by every metric you could say it was a I would say they were out in the wilderness for, for quite a while. Yeah.    Ed Heil [00:06:15] And then I've heard you say that the pandemic is the single best thing that has happened to private clubs. Is that, in what way? Well said.    Frank McMahon [00:06:25] Well, it really again, it's a it's a bit of a combination of things, but I think at its core, it just it it made evident their their value. Why do I why do I want to belong to a club? And so whether it was for access to services otherwise difficult to come from come by or, you know, sort of their personalized service or dealing with an a, a, a group of known parties, if you will. Right. That all of a sudden smaller was better, more intimate and privacy was better. People were nervous about sort of being out in the public. We were cautioned about you know, cautioned about that. So, you know, a lot of that, you know, just really expose that, well, hey, a club is more than access to a golf course or a swimming pool or whatever. It's it's a community. It's a collective group of of of people. There's an approval process. There's a, you know, a communications process and a whole sense of community around that where we were all searching for that, right. Or going Covid as that was suddenly yanked away from us in many ways and, you know, cautioned about going outside or traveling on an airplane or going to a meeting or going to a restaurant club, stood out as a bit of a beacon during that period. So while I could still enjoy a lot of those things, but also do it in a way where I felt a little a little more comfortable because even though those members could have been susceptible to the same disease as everybody else was, there was just sort of a sense that you're a member and a kind of of that extension of family almost, as opposed to something worse, you know, completely out there in the public.    Ed Heil [00:08:16] In some ways. Did. Do you think the pandemic reintroduced people to private clubs may be in a different way? I mean, some of the stereotypes of private clubs and private club members for so long was, you know, I mean, especially if you're a golf club with limited activity. But it seemed like through the pandemic, it brought families together and community together, like you're saying, in a way that was. In some ways more fulfilling, enriching than it was before.    Frank McMahon [00:08:53] Well, I think that's right. Yeah, I think it kind of turned it on its head. Right. You you had you know, you had kind of a political and social environment of getting over that same take, that same 20 year period, 2000 to 2020, where, you know, exclusive, exclusivity was sort of judged a little more negatively. And all those things sort of, you know, you were seen as not as our exclusive exclusive access, but exclusionary, discriminatory, you know, those sorts of negative connotations assigned to it. All of a sudden it turned that on its head because it said sort of, well, hey, I get it. You know, I, I get why I would want to be part of a smaller group and then share value, share activities and experiences within that group. And so as opposed to exclusive exclusivity being seen as this this pejorative and you don't want me sort of thing, it was seen as, Oh, that's a way to build a little network there and and a group and thrive and grow even within a rather challenging environment that was going on around them. So yeah, I think it flipped that on its head and said, Well, actually there are some there are some value there to all that. And and I get it. And you know, and you saw that call because prior to that it was often interesting anyway. And once you had that negative perception about being in a club and clubs as they were struggling often had this goal, well, it's maybe it's too expensive, maybe we should do this or that. And all of a sudden it was more value. The price went away, initiation fees went up, the dues went up and all those kinds of things. And so the value perception increased dramatically and, you know, dollars and cents followed it up with that. But it was really the sense of, okay, this is this is what I want from, from a from a group.    Ed Heil [00:10:59] Yeah. And as someone who consults with with private clubs and I've heard you talk about this, but it's the the innovation that occurred at the start of the pandemic. And I remember conversations that I was having with different people, and I was floored by how quickly clubs were putting things into motion, you know, you know, whether it was a little igloos that were going up, especially in some of the north courses up north or whatever they were. And, you know, their bureaucracy was gone. Things in there were innovating around family. And it was it was it was pretty remarkable. So now here we are at this point where it seems like people have been, I don't know if this is true or not, but it's almost like there's this renewed sense of value for your club and in how much you can do and what you want to get out of it. Matched with this golden age, this run now and I reading some other things about the amount of generational wealth that's going to occur in the next several years, right? So there are going to be a lot of younger people with more, you know, potentially more discretionary income that they can spend towards that. Are those all sort of the things that like, as you were saying in the beginning, are those also factors as it relates to the next 8 to 10 years?    Frank McMahon [00:12:21] Well, I think so. As long as that and that sort of as you turn to the future and say, you know, and I think most of our clubs are saying right now, how do we keep it going? Right. That's a that's a good question at all club leaders should be asking. And I point out and you're you're wise to mention this whole notion of of innovation, you know, the the notion that people wanted community and privacy during Covid and, oh, yeah, I get that, right. That's a pretty easy connection. They wanted outdoor recreation. So yeah, golf boomed out, outdoor tennis boomed, all that. I think you could get there on those pretty quickly. I think the innovation piece of it often goes underreported. And and yet it was the way that clubs responded and it and it just shows and it should be a good lesson for club leaders that a lot of those things you say happened overnight, whether it was let's all of a sudden start, you know, Tuesday night tacos on the terrace or whatever or. Now building the igloos outside the great little City Club in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. The Westmoreland Club had a courtyard next to it, primarily a dining club. And all of a sudden they popped these igloos out there and people are out there in the courtyard having fun, you know? I suspect if management had gone to the board a couple of months in advance of that and say this winter we're going to try igloos outside and people are gonna dine in them, that's an idea that that dies at the boardroom table. You know, I think so. So they were there. So they were ready to respond. And, you know, I don't know, I guess somewhat some of those ideas are work and some of them won't work. But it was the fact that they were so willing to try because in many ways they were scared to death. I think many of us being included at the beginning of Covid, that was my my first reaction was, "oh my gosh, here we go again". You know, it's going to be another 2009 or 2010 and people aren't going to want to join clubs and we're going to have another raft of closures and all that. And of course, after about a 3 to 4 month period of time where all that was incubating, the future turned out to be far different. But yeah, whether, you know, clubs just took snack bars and made them in the outdoor restaurants or, you know, the igloos as we're mentioning, or put simulators or there were clubs that took they're all ballrooms, right? Because no, no more activities, no more group events. And they put, you know, simulators in the ballroom and all of a sudden people are in there hitting golf balls and having fun, you know? So, yeah, that that carried through and that that is a big takeaway is that I think that's just a lesson that there ought to be, you know, you can't reinvent the club every year, but having a healthy dose of innovation in your, you know, in your business plan and your strategic plan is extremely important.    Ed Heil [00:15:17] Yeah. Let's talk about who the clubs are targeting or maybe should be targeting in this golden age. What what are you seeing and what's your. Because I think for a long time they target guys that are I'm in my late 50s you know my age maybe a little bit older. It's you know, that that's the target member. But it looks a little bit different today, doesn't it?    Frank McMahon [00:15:43] Well, it does. And, you know, it's certainly a bit younger. I mean, again, you'll have the joining age versus, you know, I think the average club member nationwide still mid-fifties is you're talking, you know, 54, 55 is generally recognized as a, you know, pretty much the the profile of the average member. But the joiner, as you know, tends to be about a 42 year old couple. And a lot of joining happens age 35 to 45. And now that's again that's that's why we're very optimistic about the about this being able to continue into a golden age, that we continue to innovate and we continue to have demand for things like golf and tennis and some of these recreational activities, health and wellness. But the addressable market, so to speak, is expanding the you know, the millennials just now, the oldest, you know, where where clock the clock ever starts ticking on these demographic things. But if you just say, you know, 1980, right, then the the oldest millennial right now is 42, 43 years old. So they're getting right there and there's a whole cohort of 80 million people behind them that that suggest over the next decade, the number of people in their early 40s is on the increase. And so, you know, you just look at lifestyle in general, right? Look look at what's happening out there and, you know, housing. Right. All the demand for housing today and and schools that go along with that. You look at equity markets and the resilience and the amount of investment and capital flow that's happening there. Those all happen around a period of time where the middle age group is expanding. You can almost transport a lot of what's happening in the club world today. Back to the mid 90s, which was another good boom period for clubs. Guess what? The baby boomers were in the same position there, you know, at that point as millennials are now. And so you know so clubs should be thinking about that group and thinking about that they're ready to you know, they were very urban a decade ago. Our cities were booming and people want to live downtown. And we saw that renaissance in the American city. We're having a similar uptake now. And the American suburbs where those millennials who were 40, 42 years old had some kids. Now they got married a little later. I got married in the early 30s or so. Now they've got some six year olds and eight year olds and ten year olds, and they're ready to move to the suburbs, get to where the schools are. The. Houses with space and all those things that they need. And guess what? They need a club that helps socialize and get ingrained in the community, meet other people, meet other young families, or have outlets for those clubs where the kids are on the swim team or they're playing junior golf or, you know, just the family can go there for holiday brunches and, you know, those sorts of things. It's just right in their sweet spot. And so, yeah, I, you know, clubs ought to be targeting on and we all we think of it in a couple of ways Yeah you know you get the 6065 and over a group you're pretty set in your way at the club get that mid age group and they tend to they've got money and time. They're using the club quite actively more golf players played and things like that. And then you have the young family that's sort of 45 and under. So but that's the future, right? The older group is natural attrition. You know, they they move to Florida. Obviously the biggest thing is people get sick, they pass away or whatever they need to be replaced. And so that young group and that early 40s is is ready to come in and replace them. I think you've got a lot of people that are if we're offering the right things that they're looking for.    Ed Heil [00:19:37] Right. And I think that I mean and hence the I think the crux of the conversation because you know so many well, you hear generational experts talk about the country clubs don't mean the same thing to this younger generation than it meant to say the Boomers. And there are so many things they're interested in, whether it's travel or just other activities, experiential things with their with their families. Right. That you hear generational experts talk about. So given all that, you know, while there is this population that, you know, this this market, if you will, that's potentially available or that clubs can go after. What do clubs need to do differently, in your opinion, as a as it relates to amenities, messaging, how clubs position themselves in the experiences they offer these 42 year olds?    Frank McMahon [00:20:36] Sure. Sure. Well, I think I think the big one to really think about is their approach to to family is I've often said that the young the young members coming to the club today are bringing their children with them. But the punchline for all that is that they expect you the club to be actively programing and and ways kind of taking care of those kids while they're on campus. I think historically you go back to, you know, the Boomers and even pre prior to that children came to the club and it was almost a sort of, you know, you know, it could be seen and not heard sort of approach. Right. And and if you took your kids to dinner at the club, they were going to sit at the table and you were going to figure out how to keep them under control that whole time while they were sitting at the table and and making sure they weren't, you know, upsetting the apple cart and the quorum of the dining room or the club in general. They might have even come in with their little blazer on. Right. Right. To come in and set at dinner with you. Today's young family says, well, we're coming. We're going to have dinner. The kids probably are going to get a little rambunctious. Are you going to show them a movie down the hall and they're going to be able to go to the game room or you're going to do something for them? Of course, aren't you? While I'm having dinner, you know, and they they really have a hard time understanding why you wouldn't be doing that. And and frankly, it's not all that complex. It's not all that difficult to do. We typically have a lot of space and and all that, but it's about programing to ease that. Again, these families are busy, probably both adults. The likelihood that both adults are working is very, very high. So they're crunched for free time, so to speak. And so if the club is seen as, again, that refuge, they may want to be with the kids in doing something. But they also want to know that the family is there at the club and participating either jointly or separately in these kinds of activities. And so, you know, I think as the court looks to to to to satisfy that group, really recognizing that the children are vitally important in that whole equation and and the kids aren't coming to the club to be disciplined or to be told to sort of sit down and be quiet. They want them in. You know, they want them to learn something. They want to make sure that the junior golf or the junior tennis or whatever programs are, there's real instruction there. There's real training that goes along with that. I mean, I remember junior golf, right, was the mom and dad's would walk along the golf course with the kids and you just sort of made sure that nobody got hit, had with a golf club was kind of, you know, watching her golf was all about today. People want their junior golf the. There is instruction there and you to go along with that. And so at all levels, it's it's really programing across the spectrum there. And with with for this group in particular a real high priority on that. The families are welcome. Kids have spaces that they can enjoy. Pool locker rooms are no longer it's no longer acceptable to have these kind of, you know, industrial strength pool locker rooms, but something that's kind of attractive of the food and that sort of thing that you're serving now. All those things really saying that the family is really, you know, in the wheelhouse, really part of our mix. And you've thought about that in all aspects of physical facility too, and most importantly programing so that there's there's engagement.    Ed Heil [00:24:10] You know the idea of having club this more family friendly for lack of a better term it's it seems like you'd have a lot of club leaders that would agree with that and say oh yeah for sure, but it's how they they get from where they are to that in some cases that match with the fact that, you know, I mean, you talk to more people than I do. I'm sure in the in the space. However, it seems like everyone sort of a lot of clubs are making capital improvements. And in I know many clubs the decision is might be around something focused on whether it's a golf course and what we're doing with the golf course versus, gee, should we spend more money to update our dining services, to expand more families, family areas? What are you seeing out there as far as you know, where clubs are investing?    Frank McMahon [00:25:03] Yeah, well, you're you're correct in our opinion. And again, the core of McMahon's business as we got into the call, the space 40 years ago was actually an outgrowth of our architectural company and with with really a focus it was going to go around the country and do Cornell architecture and all and a lot of a lot of ways that's still a big driver in our business. But again, it's the strategy and the concepts that go behind that. But overall, that period of time we've been involved in a couple of billion dollars worth of capital projects. And yeah, it's a it's a you've seen few periods, if any, frankly, where there's been more capital spent. A number of clubs as well as the size of what clubs are doing. It's the number of clubs. We all read the periodicals and you know, we certainly experience it firsthand, the clubs doing, you know, 20, 25, $30 million projects, you know, values that are unheard of. And there's obviously some inflation in that. But but it's also the scope and the reinvention and the things that they're doing. So, yeah, they're spending a lot of money, you know, and really across the board, I'd say first and foremost, it is the reinvention of the food and beverage outlets, all of that, that that, you know, the people don't want stuffy and so the formal traditional dining room or the past and all that they want that same sort of feel that they get when they go to the new hip place downtown. So indoor outdoor, you know, the sliding nano walls, the outside sitting areas, the fire pits, the radiant heat so that we can sit outside in a room that's we're not just dining on the terrace. The terrace has actually been reinvented to be an outside dining room. Right. You know, that sort of thing. Certainly the bar areas that clubs are putting in that, you know, again, in the bar itself, as you know probably many members like a like a good drink. But the but the beauty of the bar room and these well, I'll say these pubs and such the clubs are building it's a space that you could just walk into by yourself and just see who's there. You know, I'm going to go to the wonder if Ed's at the club tonight or whatever, whoever just walk in that room as opposed to walking in the dining room and everybody's looking at you and, you know, it's just you and somebody else or whatever. You know, it's it's a it's a communal thing, you know, and a place to meet. So and I think they, you know, the upshot of that also that we always say is right everybody eats right. So, you know, you can you can affect the most members, the hardcore golfer to, you know, the social member who, you know, is just there for dining all them and their spouses and their families all have have the ability and the interest in using the food and beverage facilities. So I think that's been the, you know, probably the top reinvention area that you that you've seen. But, that continues right on down the line. There's a lot of stuff going on in the golf world. You know, I mean, we again, we think of golf as you make the course the best we can make it. And frankly, the data would often show that, you know, clubs may overspend on on the course itself. But today, a lot of money is going into the practice facilities, the simulators, the golf learning areas, the putting courses, the short game areas, top golf and other features, other other other facilities have shown us there's multiple ways to enjoy golf. And so, again, if you're going to be great in golf today, you've got to have a golf performance center. Or why would your members go to name any names or why would they go to so-and-so sporting goods to get fitted for their clubs? They need to be doing that at your club, right? That's that's why they join the club. And if the club wants to be cutting edge, it ought to have a fitting room. It ought to have, you know, simulators not only for fun, but for training or short game area and all that. And, you know, modern golfers have have seen that. So, you know, in almost all our activities, you know, you can you can talk about swimming. Right. Swimming used to be a swimming pool was a box of water with a, you know, a concrete deck around it. And there were some lounge chairs and there was a snack bar where you could get a, you know, a hamburger or a hotdog. And, you know, that was sort of the fine of the day. That was that was what people felt was there today. You know, the whole vernacular around the resort style pool complex. And there's spray grounds or slides or shade structures, upgraded food and beverage. And, you know, the water is about the same. You just need a good a good place to take a dip. But the environment around that is completely different than what what we had in the past.    Ed Heil [00:29:53] What's the biggest objection you hear from from club leaders when you advise them to do what they can to make their club more family friendly.    Frank McMahon [00:30:05] Well, I you know, it's it's the leadership in clubs like a like a lot of you know ultimately it's a bit of a of a of a political activity if you will. And then you know politics generally skews to the, you know, to to the older demographic. Right. Again, people who have time, they want to get back. They're well-meaning. But, you know, you've got a lot more time to serve on a club board if you're in your 60s than when you're in your 40s. Right. But again, unfortunately, there's a big disconnect, disconnect between what this what the 60 year old may be thinking and what the 40 year old really wants to buy. And, you know, and that's that's not to criticize. I'm I'm certainly above that myself. And, you know, not not all folks in that age group means that they're resistant to change or opposed to it. But I think it's often hard for them to really appreciate it. Right. And to really, truly, truly sense that demand and and always have a level of skeptical skepticism on this as well. You know, is it really worth the money? Should we make that expenditure this summer? So it's tough for them to walk in the in the shoes of that young group. And and, you know, there's often a you know, a sense that, well, they either take what we've always offered or they're not willing to pay up for what it would take to to have these kinds of services. And, you know, the reality is often very different. Again if it's for their family, the millennials are often willing to pay for that. You know, the millennials, on an inflation adjusted basis, the 40 year olds who are out there today make more money than the 40 year old baby boomer did. You know? So they they they are in a good financial position and are generally probably willing to spend it on their on their club. But, you know, I think it's that just that generational divide that's often you know, unfortunately the the to make those investments everybody in the club is probably going to have to pay up in one way or another. Right. So again, getting that that that older member to say, yeah, we ought to expand the fitness facility, we ought to renovate the pool complex. And by the way, you're going to get a, you know, a dues increase or, you know, a capital fee or an assessment to make those happen, You know, and that's why it's important in any capital plan to look across those age groups. You know, you can't just go one direction and say, okay, we're going to focus all our energy and focus all that on the pool. You're doing that pool. You ought to be giving the golfer something at the same time and, you know, doing shopping and dining or whatever. You tend to want to spread that around a little bit. So, you know, each of the each of the age groupings can look at it and think that they're going to get some feel they're going to get some real value.    Ed Heil [00:32:57] Out of it. Right. There is a policy. The politics of it all is is your say. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what happens next? I mean, you know, some clubs are going to adapt and change. Some clubs may not and and obviously painting with really broad strokes here because some clubs are you know, not all clubs are the same, right. And different clubs have different ability to do things and these but generally speaking, what is your thought as far as how this plays out as we move forward with the Golden Age?    Frank McMahon [00:33:31] Yeah, well, it's certainly a better environment where, you know, the rich have gotten richer, so to speak. To use analogy, those clubs that can put up the capital have furthered themselves from the rest of the marketplace and even put themselves in even stronger positions than they were than they were in previously, which again, can, you know, eat up, you know, eat up the demand in the marketplace. Some of them have created capacity. And, you know, that allows them to expand their membership a little bit and things like that. Said the other way, right now, if your club is not doing very well in this environment, I'd be really concerned. You know, at the club today, that's not what I want. You know, we we we believe and the data suggests that more than half the clubs in the country have a waiting list today. So, you know, if you're in that other half and you're not close, well, then you you know, you've got some some real concerns. And, you know, it's it is time to shake it up a little bit and see that, you know, what what innovation can you put in there and how can you rally to do things? I think in a lot of ways, it's you know, we see those big projects as we're talking about, but things can be scaled. And that's, again, what we were talking about earlier about the innovation period. You know, I have a client that comes to mind Manor Country Club outside the Baltimore area. They had a, you know, a snack bar area that was, you know, the golf. First made the turn there. They put some money in that. They put some shade structures outside of it, bought some new furniture. This was not a big expense. And all of a sudden they had a really valued casual outside area on a lawn where people could just come in and chill and they were able to put a little money in the cooking equipment and picked up. You know, expanded that menu somewhat. So, you know, this was not a, you know, $1 million rebuild of the of the snack bar. It was taken an existing facility. And if they spent 50, $75,000 on that, but they they got to where they needed to get to for that. So I think a lot of times, you know, the there's a thought, well, we need to blow the whole place up. It's often very valuable to to incubate programs and, you know, move ahead with, you know, at least get your toe in the water and start to do things. I think the smaller clubs can do that. The trends are probably going to be the same across those demographic groups. You know how much you can do with each club will be determined by the market location and the support of, you know, the overall financial wherewithal of that community. But society's moving in the same direction. And and I think the goalposts are the same. You just have to figure off, you know, figure out how much of that you can bite off at any one time.    Ed Heil [00:36:30] Yeah. You talk about the clubs that are not maybe the clubs that don't have waiting lists for clubs that maybe aren't doing aren't doing real well. Obviously, change is something that I mean, they might as well think about it, right? Let's do something different. Shake it up. What about the clubs are doing well that that are sitting on their hands. Is there a risk in being cocky at this time?  Frank McMahon [00:37:00] Yeah. Well, I'd I'd say, you know, it's funny I the experience when I, you know, sort of first in the in the club industry, you would go and sort of make a sales call for lack of a better term. And then a lot of times, you know, we find ourselves in the metropolitan New York area and you go into a club and you might have had a pretty famous sort of brand before you showed up. You had a perception of, well, this is really a special place. And you got there and you looked around and you're like, Wow, this is this is not all that impressive on the surface here. And then you talk to some of the club leaders and everything else, they're like, well, it's fine. We're full, you know, So why why do we need to do anything where, you know, we're doing great. You know, so. And so, you know, that was just instructive for me that, you know, Yeah. Resting on your laurels or sitting back and saying, yeah, it's fine. That's that's not going to be a valued, you know, a valued club or valued membership down the line. You certainly see that in the Florida market today where, you know, some new and innovative and big clubs have come on and some of these clubs have spent. I mean, talk about club spending 30, 40, $50 million. All of a sudden, some of the older clubs in some of those market places, you can go on the west side of Florida right now and find some folks that were the market leaders, you know, a decade or so ago. And right now, they can look down the street and find that boy, you know, brand X as all of a sudden, really about quite you've got a lot going on over there, you know. So, yeah, I think in any business, you know, leaders need to be thinking about that 5 or 10 years and and challenging sometimes that's harder. You know, for our conversation a moment ago, we always say, you know, it depends on how much pain the club is in. Right. You know, in any business, if you're if you're, you know, staring at solvency or viability, you're probably at some point say, okay, well, let's try that because this isn't working, you know? You have to guard against that notion that we're there. Right. We're done. And so, you know, and and you see that a lot of clubs, clubs, clubs tend to approach both strategic planning and capital planning in an episodic way. Okay. We're going to do a strategic plan and we're going to check that box and it's done, or we're going to do a capital plan. We're going to go out and we've spent a lot of money here in 2025, and that's going to be done. And we're never going to have a capital program again, you know, or, you know, almost that that's inferred or assumed or sometimes even used as the language of selling the program as well. We haven't done anything for a decade or two decades or we're going to do this and then we're done. What we're trying to get clubs to realize is it's, you know, it's much more of a flywheel approach. You've got to put some investments in. You're going to create some new programs. You're going to have some new activity. Hopefully that's generating some new membership and new interest. But then you go back to the beginning again and you you know, you do your research to find out internally and externally what do people want? Are we providing it or what's next for us that you could continue to, you know, continue to do and to, you know, to push the thing forward and so know that that can you know, like I say, sometimes that can be a tougher, a tougher, you know, sort of sell or a tougher mission because, you know, everybody else is just sort of sitting there saying, well, it's fine. You know, gosh, we're full. We got a waiting list. This is just great, you know? Well, on the facility side, you know, facilities are always in some state of challenge. They're aging. And so there's some level of deterioration and, you know, getting enough capital to either maintain or improve is always a battle. Also, they you know, they might sit on their hands relative to that where if they could take an a more consistent way and manage their resources work under the concept of a of a long range plan and always be looking ahead. That's you know, that's what the great clubs can do is what a great organization can do.    Ed Heil [00:41:02] Yeah. Awesome. Frank, thanks so much for your time and for your your thoughts on this.    [00:41:10] And thank you for listening. If you find the content from this episode to be helpful, subscribe to Crushing Club Marketing wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, keep crushing your club marketing.   

In August, the National Club Association (NCA) and Club Management Association of America (CMAA) released Private Club Governance: A Handbook of Principles and Best Practices. Written by a joint committee of experts from both associations in a partnership structured to benefit the entire private club community, the new publication is a definitive guide to governance of private clubs, designed to be a framework of best practices for clubs at any place on the spectrum of effective governance. We are excited to welcome Tim Muessle, CCM, CCE, Chief Operating Officer at The Olympic Club in San Francisco, CA. Tim is a long-time CMAA member who currently serves as the Chair of the NCA Governance Committee. CMAA Members can access the Handbook through the CMAA Connect Best Practices Exchange Library: https://connect.cmaa.org/viewdocument/private-club-governance-a-handbook. In September, NCA and CMAA hosted a three-hour symposium featured the authors of this recently released, definitive guide to the governance of private clubs, chapter by chapter. Access the recording and accompanying resources now! Recording: https://nca.freestonelms.com/viewer/eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJjaGFwdGVySUQiOjQ1NzY5MiwiYnlwYXNzQXR0ZW5kYW5jZSI6dHJ1ZX0.SdYYJE1-z2-H7EQnfE4UnjUihL7fCM0n5bHhXkUNMhQ Additional Resources: https://connect.cmaa.org/communities/community-home/librarydocuments?communitykey=43e436dc-e513-4cc6-94b0-34a8e734968f&LibraryFolderKey=&LibraryFolderKey=d3cd1942-76e7-4f9d-b21a-0189d0597cb6&DefaultView=folder

Claude Achaume has been working as the private rooms manager for the exclusive 5 Hertford Street Private Club in London for several years and in this podcast, he shares his experiences and some interesting anecdotes that have made headlines!  Claude describes how his years at the iconic Connaught Hotel in London shaped his sense of hospitality and taught him the importance of discretion and tactfulness.   While working at the Connaught, Claude met actors, royalty, celebrities and politicians and he describes some of his most memorable moments.  He tells our listeners why the Connaught was unique and highly appreciated by its guests.   After the Connaught, Claude moved on to the London Ritz where he continued his Food and Beverage career there until 1991.  It was Mr. Julian Payne, the former manager at the London Ritz and a much-appreciated mentor, who introduced Claude to the London private club scene and gave him the opportunity to start working for them. Claude shares his hospitality acumen, his values and why he hasn't considered retirement as of yet.  As a Frenchman living in England for many years, Claude tells us why he appreciates London and why he decided to come back from France after working eight years at the Château de la Pioline in Aix en Provence.  Claude also tells us why it's no longer easy to find experienced and dedicated staff and how he has seen the hospitality field struggle, change and evolve. We also ask Claude to share his ideas on how the private club niche is just one of the many places young people can aspire to work and what skills are needed for this kind of employment. Finally, Claude talks about how 5 Hertford Street Private Club welcomed guests as part of the Coronation of Charles celebration in May of this year.  Understanding royal protocol is just one of the many reasons  why Claude is a very popular, admired and treasured hospitality expert.  

This episode is brought to you by our friends at Minoan.  Minoan provides hosts with a one-stop-shop to get hundreds of discounts on the world's leading brands, and a system where you can manage all of the ordering, tracking, returns, etc. in one place. Saving you time and money!  Create your free account here and be sure to tell the team that Zach from Behind the Stays sent you there way! Meet Samantha Pike, founder of The Hosting Societe — a private club for hosts who have mastered the art of experiential accommodations. Back in 2018, Samantha launched her first vacation rental in Ontario — she had poured so much love and intention into the space that when she opened her calendar it booked out for 6 months almost immediately.  Samantha was stunned by the response and began wondering whether she had scratched an itch that the next generations of guests had for highly-curated short-term stays.  Sam started posting about her approach to hosting on Instagram and, before she knew it, folks with a similar heart for elevated hospitality began asking her to swap ideas and connect to share stories.  And it really was these requests that got Sam thinking about what it might look like to design a space where these exceptional creators of some of the world's most beloved stays could come together. Tune in to hear the inspiring story of how Sam built The Hosting Societe and what she thinks the future of travel and hospitality just might look like…  Learn more about The Hosting Societe Connect with Samantha on Instagram  About the Show Behind the Stays is brought to you twice a week by Sponstayneous — a free, biweekly newsletter that brings subscribers the best last-minute deals and upcoming steals on Airbnb.   You can subscribe, for free, at www.sponstayneous.com.  Behind the Stays is hosted by Zach Busekrus, co-founder of Sponstayneous, you can connect with him on Twitter at @zboozee.

Which TV shows makes up feel the biggest emotions? And pictures of Taylor Swift made her quick a fancy private club.This show is part of the Spreaker Prime Network, if you are interested in advertising on this podcast, contact us at https://www.spreaker.com/show/4305715/advertisement

Imagine a private club of friends, family members, loved ones, and like-minded people who own multiple locations all over the world's best travel destinations. Isn't that a cool idea? That's exactly what Stephen Petasky thought, only it didn't stop in the fantasy world.   Discover The Luxus Groups hidden secrets with Stephen Petasky in this episode of the Super Entrepreneurs Podcast, and get some valuable insight into how to achieve your dreams at a young age and teach your children how to become Super Entrepreneurs.   Who Is Stephen Petasky?   Stephen Petasky identifies as a father who wants to have the best lifestyle possible for his family, including having luxury vacations every once in a while. For him, that's all that matters: having a good time with the family and loved ones every once in a while, while at the same time conducting business. That's why he founded the Luxus Group, which is a whole new level of playing the real-estate innovation game.   Learn more about the game from the man himself…   How is Stephen Petasky Super?   His unhinged, positive mindset makes Stephen Petasky resistant, even lethal to all forms of negativity or pessimism. Why be pessimistic, says Stephen Petasky? And that's why he's super.   You can only solve problems more efficiently and effectively when you're calm and positive, which is radically different from forcing happiness or positivity. Seeing the glass half full is also a subtle art.   Shahid Durrani's Key Insight: Shahid Durrani's key insight from this episode is to step up your game if you're still stuck in the 9-to-5 rat race and feel stuck. It's better if you risk working in an entrepreneurial environment with the potential to experience a quantum leap than settle for a good salary at a Fortune-500 company. Working in entrepreneurship is your next step; you don't have to become an entrepreneur right away. Chapter Stamps:   00:00 02:00 Introduction 02:00 06:10 Who is Stephen Petasky and what is The Luxus Group? (Private Club for Parents) 06:10 13:46 The Luxus Group: A Private Luxury Club and Real-Estate Investment Quantum Leap 13:46 15:37 The Grant Cardone business model 15:37 17:31 Ideal prospect for Stephen: a family man who wants to enhance his family's travel lifestyle 17:31 25:59 Behaviors are caught, not taught (Parenthood for Entrepreneurs) 25:59 33:06 “Play the Long Game.” 33:06 37:47 Super Power: Unhinged Optimism (while avoiding the happiness trap) 37:47 39:53 Final words (Stephen helps you become a better family man.)     Pullout Quotes:   “Behaviors are caught, not taught. (...) Be by example. (...) (Our kids) we don't have to teach them anything. They just catch our behaviors…”   “Play the long game. You'd be better off, you'd be more happy, you'd be more financially rewarded, and all of the above..”   “Nothing is easy. But there are paths to achieving your dream at such a young age (...), without taking massive risks.”   “(a question to keep in mind) What good outcomes can we create from a difficult situation?”   “I never try to tell people to enforce happiness because I know it's impossible. You have to create an environment that promotes happiness (...) and all of a sudden, you find yourself happier and more positive. Then you can solve problems…”   Socials: The Luxus Group: https://luxusgroup.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theluxusgroup/?hl=en LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-luxus-group YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheLuxusGroup_/videos

In this episode, Kris and Julia are joined by Matthew Rose, Founder and CEO of ClubUp, a leading golf service and technology company acquired by Troon in 2022. Founded in 2016, ClubUp provides innovative technology that helps improve the caddie experience for golfers and caddies at partner clubs and resorts. Additionally, ClubUp technology offers a more efficient way to schedule and communicate with caddies working at a partner club property. The improved communication and efficient logistics provided by ClubUp technology yield significant productivity improvements for caddie programs. 

New host, who dis? We welcome our new host of Private Club RadioMagician, comedian, and club entertainer Denny Corby The tables are turned as Denny chats with Gabe. In this episode, you'll learn What Gabe has been up to, who Denny Corby is, and Exciting news about the show. Make sure you follow Gabe belowLet's Play Thru YouTubefacebook.com/LetsPlayThruinstagram.com/letsplaythru/Learn about his special Ireland golf toursmygolfgrouptravel.com/letsplaythruThanks for listening We're relaunching and still learning. Thanks for your patience as we learn and grow

Much of the private club-based social experience has been defined by exclusivity. When Kim Bosse sought something more inclusive, she joined forces with a childhood friend to create Birch Road Cellar, a neighborhood-based BYOB social club. In this episode, Manilow explores what communal socializing means, especially when it's not in your own home. Manilow also visits with Ally Marotti from the Crain's newsroom to discuss the unusual relationship between chain establishments and Chicago. Their discussion leads to a new take on dinner and a movie. Plus, when your carryout meal yields a parking ticket, you have to ask: "Was the food ticket-worthy?" On this edition of "Where Dave Ate," our host confronts that question.

Listen in with Kris and Julia and hear great programming ideas from Atusa Freyer, Naperville Country Club, and Devin Lowe, Ak Chin Southern Dunes. From calendar standards to trending events and pop ups, these club professionals share best practices that anyone in the club world can use. "Ritas and Fajitas," anyone?

In this episode, Senior Vice Presidents Phillip Martin and Bill O'Brien share ideas with Julia on how to incorporate the philosophy of deep work into our professional and personal lives, as described in Cal Newport's 2016 book Deep Work: Rules for Focused Success in a Distracted World. For feedback, questions, or show ideas reach out to Julia Kelly at jkelly@troon.com.

There are many differences between the public and private sectors. What is it like for engineering roles? In this episode, we are joined by Jasmine Robinson from Netflix to hear about her experience moving from the public sector to a corporate career. Guests: Jasmine Robinson Panelists: Ryan Burgess - @burgessdryan Jem Young - @JemYoung Stacy London - @stacylondoner Picks: Jasmine Robinson - Super-glueing airtags to remotes Jasmine Robinson - Andrew Hubberman Ryan Burgess - The Bear Ryan Burgess - Anatomy of a Scandal Jem Young - The Redeem Team Jem Young - Parental Leave Stacy London - Jungle by Fred again.. Stacy London - Avalanche by Tourist Episode transcript: https://www.frontendhappyhour.com/episodes/public-sector-tech-public-bar-vs-private-club

Dawnna St. Louis is an in-demand international speaker and sales and revenue acceleration coach. She is called the ‘coach's coach' when she works with subject matter experts to turn their expertise into high-profit coaching and speaking businesses. Next year, she will launch her Fyrebrand-certified coaching program for those who want to be successful business coaches and have the expertise to do so. Dawnna's success growing coaching businesses and entrepreneurial firms have earned her an exclusive spot as the business coach for Goldman Sachs Minority Entrepreneurs.If you are tired of scrounging for customers, I've got a sales expert here who will talk to you about how it might make more sense to treat your business like a private club instead of a public park. And if you think that your business could benefit from focusing on a hyper-niche, my expert will break down exactly how that will work best for you in your business. Today, I talk with Dawnna St. Louis, and we cover all that and more!"Being a professional is required, but if you want to be paid, you've got to be an expert." - Dawnna St. LouisThis week on SmallBizChat Podcast:Keeping your funnel specific and simplified.Niching down.Effective marketing strategies for your ideal client.Your ideal client is willing to pay you.Being crystal clear about what you do and who you do it for.Scaling is a requirement.Resources Mentioned:BossQuiz: https://bossquiz.com/ Connect with Dawnna St. Louis:Website: https://www.fyrebrand.net/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dawnna/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/dawnnastlouis

In this episode, Melinda Emerson chats with Dawnna St. Louis, a renowned coach. They discuss the challenges and strategies in online marketing for coaches, attracting leads, and launching new programs. Dawnna shares her email marketing strategy, insights on identifying an ideal client, and the power of niche focus. She also shares some contrary business advice she's received.

Julia is joined by colleagues Phillip Martin and Justin Herr to discuss a few key concepts of club operations, viewed through the lens of the New York Times Bestseller, Greenlights, written by Matthew McConaughey and published by Crown Publishing Group.

For the first time in years, many private clubs have a waitlist for new members. For the clubs who have always had waitlists, this is nothing new. On the other hand, hundreds of clubs are learning to manage a waitlist for the first time. This is both exciting and terrifying with members lined up to join clubs and with membership directors wanting to make sure these "hot" prospective members can be converted into full, dues paying members. Jason Becker, the CEO of Golf Life Navigators, recently surveyed more than 500 people to learn what people will and will not tolerate as it relates to Private Club Waitlists. In this episode, Jason shares with us the insights gained and some practical tips for those managing a waitlist for the first time.

As business leaders continue to reimagine the way we work, offices everywhere are getting revamped to support new organizational priorities. For Stephen Miles and Christina Woodard, office density and intentionality top the list. We need to be purposeful about what we're doing, says Miles, and why we're asking teams to convene. Working together, colleagues can peel away from virtual meeting rooms to reforge strong connections and trust in person, and then tackle the hard issues with creativity and high performance. In a sense, the office of the future will be like a private club, where employees are the members.

This episode is also available as a blog post: https://thecitylife.org/2022/06/21/central-park-tower-worlds-tallest-residential-building-unveils-highest-private-club-ever/ --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/citylifeorg/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/citylifeorg/support

Listen in as Julia and Kris take a deep dive on logo changes relative to brand strategy, standards guides, best practices, and more. Our guests for this episode are Lauren Weingartner, Corporate Director of Sales & Marketing, and Joelle Creamer, Brand Development Lead for RealFood Hospitality, Strategy & Design.

What's the single most important component in food and beverage marketing? Jared Cohen and Julia Kelly chat with Joelle Creamer with RealFood Hospitality, Service & Design in this episode. And, spoiler alert, it's not what you think it is!

Welcome to Season 2! This week we're busting the myth that the church is a private club, an exclusive, “members-only” environment. There are lots of reasons out there that people believe make the church exclusive, like how much you're able to give, having to have your act together, needing to be baptized, being better than everybody else, or understanding everything about God and the Bible. The truth is that Christianity is, and the church should be, inclusive of everyone. Scripture References Season Memory Verse - Romans 10:9 (CSB) If you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Mark 12:41-44 (CSB) Sitting across from the temple treasury, he watched how the crowd dropped money into the treasury. Many rich people were putting in large sums. Then a poor widow came and dropped in two tiny coins worth very little. Summoning his disciples, he said to them, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. For they all gave out of their surplus, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had —all she had to live on.” Mark 2:17 (CSB) When Jesus heard this, he told them, “It is not those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are sick. I didn't come to call the righteous, but sinners.” 1 Peter 3:21-22 (CSB) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not as the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God with angels, authorities, and powers subject to him. Matthew 20:25-28 (CSB) Jesus called them over and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those in high positions act as tyrants over them. It must not be like that among you. On the contrary, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave; just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.” John 13 - Jesus Washing Disciples' Feet Romans 10:14-15 (CSB) How, then, can they call on him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about him? And how can they hear without a preacher? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news. Luke 2 - Jesus in the Temple as a Child Job 38 - God's Response to Job John 3:16 (CSB) For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. Message us at info@SimplifyJesus.com for questions or comments. Facebook.com/simplifyjesus Twitter; @Simplifyjesus1 Instagram.com/simplifyjesus LinkedIn.com/simplify-jesus Youtube.com/channel/UC6tkmIg1DxqimjjSu-dCzLw Find us at www.SimplifyJesus.com Music by u_8enhfp0w from Pixabay Music by CHARLES_MICHEL from Pixabay

Did you enjoy this story? So did I. If you'd like more of these sort of episodes let me know with a little tip in the form of coffee at Buymeacoffee.com/WadeSellers --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/wadesellers/support

We recently unloosed Episode #3 of Unloose the Goose titled The Futility of Politics and the Utility of Community.  It was a great episode and exactly what I hoped for when I assembled the gaggle happened, an idea popped out.  … Continue reading →