Podcast appearances and mentions of Sean Brown

In this follow-up to our discussion on the business case for Business Data Cloud, expert Shawn Brown returns for a focused deep dive into one of the most critical topics for established SAP customers. If your organization has a significant investment in SAP Business Warehouse (BW) or Business Planning and Consolidation (BPC), this episode is essential listening. Shawn provides a strategic roadmap for migration, explaining how BDC offers a "glide slope" to modernize your landscape by turning existing artifacts into valuable data products, rather than forcing a disruptive break from your past investments. Tune in to understand the clear path forward for your on-premise solutions and learn how to leverage BDC to protect what you've built while accelerating your future in data and analytics. With over two decades of experience in SAP solutions, Shawn Brown currently serves as Senior Director for SAP's Center of Excellence. Known for expertly identifying customer needs, Mr. Brown excels in presenting tailored solutions involving Business Technology Platform, Business Data Cloud, S4HANA, and Business AI. A proven leader in demand generation and partner relationship management, Mr. Brown has successfully driven initiatives that enhance customer experience and streamline cloud solution adoption. Renowned as a thought leader and strategist, Mr. Brown frequently shares insights with CIOs and business influencers, fostering strong, trust-based relationships across multiple industries.   Connect with Us: LinkedIn: Shawn Brown Mustansir Saifuddin Innovative Solution Partners : Twitter:  @Mmsaifuddin YouTube or learn more about our sponsor Innovative Solution Partners to schedule a free consultation.    Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Mustansir Saifuddin: Welcome to Tech Driven Business, brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. I'm honored to have Sean Brown of SAP rejoin me to a deeper dive into what SAP Business Data Cloud means for existing business warehouse customers. If you're running BW or BPC and weighing your options, this episode is for you. [00:00:28] Welcome [00:00:32] back to Tech-Driven Business. Shawn, how are you? [00:00:36] Shawn Brown: I am doing well. Thanks for having me back. Happy to be here. [00:00:40] Mustansir Saifuddin: It's great to have you back. I'm really excited to have you back on our show, especially when we started the first session. It was more summary level talking about business data cloud in general. What I would like to do is to bring it a notch down and talk about some of the benefits. [00:00:58] that BDC will bring to SAP BW customers. I see a lot of questions or thoughts about what it will do for those customers having business warehouse. So I'd like to dig deeper into this conversation. How does that sound? [00:01:14] Shawn Brown: That sounds great. [00:01:16] Mustansir Saifuddin: Awesome. Awesome. [00:01:17] Okay, so let's get into it. Right? Let's start with this. I mean, how does BDC simplify the data landscape for BW users? Let's start with that. [00:01:29] Shawn Brown: Yeah, so I think the big question is first, how is a customer using BW? This gets into whether they're using it for the purposes of. An analytical tool. They've built reports against, they've BEx reports. They, they're using older technologies like Business Objects. They're moving forward to actually even using even some third party, or they're using SAC or are they using it for the purposes of extracting the data from the source systems at SAP ERP, ECC [00:02:04] And even if they're already on S/4 and then using it as, Hey, I've extracted this data from SAP, now I'm looking for a way to use this data. And if it's acting as a bit more of a pass through then they have to kind of figure out what are they gonna do to get to that data after they're [00:02:24] thinking of what are they gonna do with BW now, if they're thinking about BW in a BW 4HANA perspective, they're probably looking at it as a long-term solution because they've got until 2040 before they have to really get off of BW. If, if they're using it in, let's say BW 7.5, they've got a little bit more time. [00:02:44] But the question is, are you gonna upgrade or, you know, what's the longer term plan with it? In those cases, I think really the big question for those customers is if I am looking to try to move to the more advanced capabilities that we have to access data within SAP. Then you're, you're clearly going to be in a position of trying to explore Business Data Cloud. [00:03:08] Now, the ability to take your environment that is on-prem, likely today in BW and then move it into BDC it, it moves in as a private cloud instance within BDC. This allows you to basically turn off everything that you're doing. On the on-prem BW and turn it into a software as a service that I think is going to open up a lot of opportunity for organizations that, you know, they may have invested very heavily in BW. If they're on BW4, they're looking at some maintenance costs. If they're before that, they're not so worried about it, but they are still dealing with potentially HANA costs. To be able to take all of that investment that they may have made and move it into BDC changes in many respects, the, the [00:04:00] path to do this 'cause [00:04:02] now it's not I have to pay for something in perpetuity or maintain something in perpetuity. I have a path to make it easier to move those assets into BDC. This is where the data product generator in BW in BDC is a big game changer because data products are gonna be the way that we're going to be delivering SAP artifacts in in the future. [00:04:27] To be able to take those BW artifacts and turn them into data products, and then develop all of your own insights on those artifacts, on those new BW data products that you've generated. This is gonna create a, a really great opportunity for a lot of those organizations that have been trying to figure out what their path forward looks like. [00:04:51] Maybe one last thing I'll say on this is, for those organizations that are maybe thinking of decommissioning BW altogether and moving towards some third party capability, I guess my only caution would be that's gonna be an expensive proposition, both in the short term and in the long term. [00:05:09] Most organizations are looking for self-service analytics. And while you can spend a lot of time and energy curating all of that data from all of the systems across your organization at SAP with SAP data, we're already doing that for you. You're basically duplicating the effort that we're going to provide out of the box. [00:05:32] This is one way you can kind of say, what do I do with BW? Well, I wanna move away from it, but if I wanna move away from it, I have a way to do it and still be able to take advantage of a lot of those curated data products that will be delivered from SAP, from all of those, we'll call it ERP based needs. [00:05:49] . [00:05:49] Mustansir Saifuddin: That's a good point you made. Let's circle back on this last point you mentioned later in our conversation. One thing that I, I take away from this is depending on your BW version you have options available to you. And eventually the idea is how to reuse some of these investments you've done over the past few years that customers have been using BW, BW4HANA, and not lose all that investment. [00:06:17] Shawn Brown: Mm-hmm. [00:06:18] Mustansir Saifuddin: Going to the private cloud and having those BW artifacts turn into the data products we know we talked about in BDC, and make sure that you are still able to utilize that. That's a big win for customers. [00:06:32] Shawn Brown: Absolutely. [00:06:33] Mustansir Saifuddin: Let's talk about customers who are running a little bit more complex BW. You know, when you have BW and you also have BPC, either it's used for planning or forecasting or consolidation. What are some of the considerations when it comes to their future planning and consolidation platform? Can you delve into that and kind of show the path, like what it's gonna look like? [00:06:58] Shawn Brown: Yeah, so, so most BPC customers already kind of know that there is the consolidation piece is the big question mark in many regards, and it really depends on how much they are leveraging, consolidations, how complex they are. The planning piece is something that we, we look at from a standpoint of, yes. [00:07:19] Okay. We're, we're really looking for SAC planning to take over those responsibilities. But then the consolidation piece is something that is going to find its way into S/4HANA. When we're talking about this combined environment, BW and BPC, what I see mostly with customers is that BW is has a larger role than just BPC, but it can just be BPC. [00:07:45] The benefit of BDC of Business Data Cloud is that we're now able to go ahead and take those BPC environments into Business Data Cloud and turn them into a private cloud setting. This gives [00:08:00] a little bit more time. This is something that SAP's really trying to work pretty hard on this year, is taking customers that are a BPC customer, move them into BDC as part of a private cloud deployment. [00:08:14] And then that allows time to transition to SAC planning and then take advantage of S4 for those consolidations. Now there's a lot of organizations, you know, partners that have been working on this as well to try to figure out how do I deal with some of those consolidations in SAC planning. [00:08:34] And in some cases that works really, again, gets back to how complex your consolidations are. That's something that has to be considered as organizations try to figure out what am I gonna do with my BPC environment? How am I going to modernize it? If it's working fine, this is one that I always try to focus on with customers is, I'm not interested in trying to fix something that isn't broken. [00:08:55] If it's working fine for you and feel like you can have some more time to actually make a transition take advantage of some of those new tool sets and learn what those new tool sets have to offer that the previous tool sets did not have to offer. That's the other part, right? Things may be working fine, but it also means that you may not be taking advantage of new technology, new capabilities that are going to improve your planning and consolidation efforts. [00:09:22] Mustansir Saifuddin: I think that's an interesting comment you made about how going to private cloud eases the burden from a customer perspective. If you're a BPC shop and you are running BW you don't have to wrap everything up and start over. It's almost like there's a path for you and you can still utilize older technology or the existing technology, and then look at ways of modernizing. [00:09:47] Either choose the planning solution or look at other consolidation solutions like group reporting, as you mentioned in S4. [00:09:55] Shawn Brown: Right, right. [00:09:56] Mustansir Saifuddin: it seems like there's time that they can buy. Can be utilized for, for adapting to the new tool as well as learning what else you can offer besides what I'm currently doing in BPC. [00:10:11] Shawn Brown: Right. [00:10:11] Mustansir Saifuddin: Though it's not broken. There are ways to analyze and then make the decision. I think that's a big win. I see that as a good consideration from SAP perspective. There are always folks who are thinking, there will be challenges any time you look at a new solution. What is your advice, like, what are some of the key considerations potential challenges that BW customers should be aware of when they're planning a move to Business Data Cloud? Something that comes to your mind that you can share as a caution or something that they should be thinking of or taking care of. [00:10:47] Shawn Brown: Yeah, the first thing, it sounds obvious, but your BW is going to be in the cloud, right? So one thing that you might think about is the type of maintenance that you've had to do to take care of that environment, to have the personnel that will oversee that environment .That changes quite a bit with the support of SAP when it's in a private cloud environment. [00:11:10] That's one of the things out of the gate you can look at and you say, all right, there's some benefits that I'm getting, as a result of moving into private cloud. I'm gonna have SAP overlooking this environment with me. This is the other thing to consider too, is that private cloud is from an SAP perspective, private cloud is a stepping stone. It is to get you to a public cloud environment where really you don't have to do much of anything to maintain your environment, at least not from an infrastructure or from a upgrades. We're doing all of that for you and we're taking away the risk factor of those elements where your organization has to care for that. [00:11:52] Moving it to private cloud is saying, all right, now SAP takes on some of those responsibilities. And then longer term you're [00:12:00] seeing that Business Data Cloud is a software as a service. So we're going to be taking away even more of those administrative type of responsibilities. [00:12:10] Those keep the lights on type of responsibilities that a lot of organizations have had to bear in the past. And then the last part is we're going to help you get to the point where you can take advantage of new advancements in technology faster. Because frankly, once you kind of move into the space of a public cloud scenario, as you've transitioned from private into public over time, then essentially you're having the advantage of using those new advancements as we release them [00:12:44] rather than this staggered effect. Now that's gonna require some understanding that the way we did things in the past and the amount of customizations that we might have done and the amount of wrangling of data that we did in the past, those things we may not need to do as much of in the future. [00:13:01] And we have a framework upon which it'll make it easier for you to, let's say, add data elements to the standard SAP data elements that you have or make customizations that are a combination of data elements, that'll be a lot easier to manage over time because the foundational components, the building blocks upon which you will use are already there from SAP's point of view. [00:13:29] So as we introduce new enhancements, new improvements to those building blocks, those customers get to take advantage of them immediately. [00:13:40] Mustansir Saifuddin: So, we always look for success stories or examples. Can you share any examples success stories of companies that have either started the migration from BW into Business Data Cloud or, already done through the migration and, and some of the benefits that they have realized or come across? [00:13:58] Shawn Brown: Yeah, I. [00:13:59] Mustansir Saifuddin: That'll be great to hear your thoughts. [00:14:00] Shawn Brown: I would say that the customers that I've talked to, and I'd love to be able to use names, but they're particular about that at this point, but the customers that I've spoken to that we have had some success with already are doing exactly what we're talking about. [00:14:13] They're taking their BW environment, they're moving it directly into Business Data Cloud. It's a PC environment, and. They're already on this journey of taking those artifacts and saying, how do I make use of them in Business Data Cloud? How do I turn those BW artifacts into data products that can sit at the foundation layer of BDC? [00:14:34] And then how do I then start building the models within Datasphere to make them available for any sort of reports that they want to go ahead and leverage at that point. A lot of this is taking advantage of the type of visualizations that they may have already built, let's say, for example, with SAC and using them as part of the Business Data Cloud construct. [00:14:58] So we're early days on some of this, so customers are very early on on this, but the goal or the vision based on some of the engagements we've had so far is playing out exactly as we've talked about today and in the past as well. So that's, that's why I can give you on that. [00:15:15] Mustansir Saifuddin: That's helpful. When we talk about BW customers, let's focus from that perspective: you are using the Business Data Cloud's major offering, which is, Hey, how can I have a data product? [00:15:27] Right? The data product approach is what's going to help them reuse those investments in a newer environment, in a way that they can further grow instead of being stagnant with the, the old technology. So that's where I see the value. [00:15:44] Shawn Brown: I'm gonna add something to that one too, Mustansir, because, you know, the the thing that we think about as these investments that we have in BW they're investments that organizations don't want to let go of initially. But over time, [00:16:00] we should see that ultimately these investments, these developments that they've done with BW, for example, and what they've extracted from the ERP, whether it's ECC or S4, what they've extracted is essentially they're a collection of data products that over time SAP is going to provide [00:16:24] out of the box anyway, so there's gonna be time that you're going to say, all right, I've developed these data products from these Business Warehouse artifacts. But as SAP continues to release new data products for all of our business applications, they're largely going to replace much of what the BW artifacts are, which of what the BW data products are. [00:16:51] I like to think about this for customers as this is your transition. This is the easy glide slope to move from i'm flying along with BW and all of what invested I've done, but I've gotta land somewhere and I've gotta find a way to easily transition into the newest, latest and greatest capabilities that SAP re releases as part of Business Data Cloud. [00:17:17] Those will be those new data products that will feed those insight apps. We're largely going to be taking a lot of those investments that customers have made over time and said, you can replace them over time. And the beauty of that as well is you don't have to worry about maintaining them as well. [00:17:37] SAP maintains them and, and of course. We can include any sort of custom fields that you've added all of those elements into those data products so they're not static, but they are something that largely the bulk of the work is something that SAP is going to cover for you over the extended period of time. [00:18:00] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely. I think the idea is. Once they get into BDC once they get into private cloud, they can immediately start utilizing the AI capabilities and some of the newer needs of the organization, which was earlier not possible with BW. [00:18:16] Shawn Brown: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. [00:18:18] Mustansir Saifuddin: Let's talk about other options, other cloud data warehouses. [00:18:24] We kind of touched upon it earlier , SAP customers who have already started a journey with some of the other data warehouses, like Snowflake, Azure , in some cases GCP, those other platforms what benefits will they get by adopting BDC? Can you shed some light on that? [00:18:44] Because they're already on a journey, right? Like you mentioned earlier, I just wanted to bring it back to that conversation because important for those customers to realize what will be there for them if they want to look at BDC as the potential option? [00:18:59] Shawn Brown: Yeah. Let's use a couple of scenarios here in this case, right? Scenario number one. I'm on ECC and I'm moving to S/4HANA. I already have invested a lot in terms of how I access SAP data and then delivered it to a third party repository, we'll call it. Right? Operational data store, data warehouse data lake. [00:19:21] Let's whatever terminology you want to use to, to describe what's happened with acquiring SAP data and then delivering it to some third party, and it could be directly, let's say because the customer had access at the database level, they purchased HANA Enterprise and gave them access to the database level to get to it. [00:19:43] As they move to the cloud, much of that's gonna change. Much of that's gonna go away. Not only is it going to go away just because you're probably going to go from ECC to S4 because that's gonna change too, because the data structure has changed, but also from on-premise to [00:20:00] cloud. So this is the type of scenario that organizations should try to avoid in the future. [00:20:09] How much work do I have to do to get the data from a source system to deliver it to some other need in the organization? That's scenario number one, what's changing as a result of every upgrade, every change to the environment that takes place, whether it's a version change or whether it's on-prem to cloud. [00:20:29] All of those things or whether it's one other additional one, which we've talked quite a bit about here, which is what if BW is involved? What if I'm using BW as the extraction point to get to the SAP data, even if I am and I'm making a change, let's say from ECC to S4, BW is gonna change. [00:20:47] Much of that has to be reevaluated. So when you think about how I'm acquiring SAP data, the best way to look at it is if I can get the data curated for my needs out of the box, and I don't have to do anything to make that happen, or I have to do a minimal amount of effort because I'm just making the adjustments for [00:21:10] the custom fields I might have, the customizations I may have included. Those are things that we can include as most of the work has been done. SAP has provided most of the curated data. Now, then this gets into a question of what question am I asking and where am I getting the bulk of the data from? And I think we might have touched on the data of gravity topic in the last discussion, but I think it bears [00:21:38] that, we're talking about for just another second more, which is, if I'm asking primarily an SAP question, and I know that the time it takes to deliver SAP data is, is critical, right? 'cause it's, it's tends to be, in many cases the most important data in an organization. Finance data usually is where we can start. [00:22:00] Then we have to ask how important is it to be able to deliver that data as quickly as possible, especially for an SAP data centric question, right? Why take all of the extraction points, put it over into a third party, model it, do everything we have to do with that, and then make it available to the SAP community when SAP is going to be providing [00:22:27] access to that data in a curated format, knowing already what kind of questions the business community's going to ask of that data. Why not just make it available for them to access it through Business Data Cloud? Now, that sounds like a really centric SAP data strategy. We understand that the converse of that is that it's not always going to be the case that, you know, the bulk of the data that's being asked for is SAP. [00:22:51] It could be third party data as well. So. That's where you also ask the question, well, what's the fastest way for me to access the SAP data to deliver it to a not so SAP centric question. You need data elements from SAP, but the question primarily is third party data, and we're just using SAP data to enrich that third party data. [00:23:16] The bulk of the data being in, let's say, whatever third party it is, or an operational data store or a hyperscaler, wherever they've taken that data and placed it, whether they extracted it or they have a tool set, similar to what SAP provides with Business Data Cloud. We're providing the data in a curated format through our data products anyway, this is the best way to access the data from SAP systems. [00:23:42] 'cause again, we know what questions organizations are going to ask, we know what data elements they're going to ask of, and we've already built all the logic into that data package, data product that we can deliver to any third party need. So [00:24:00] this is a scenario where I like to use some people kind of chuckle at first, which is I call this the SAP's data strategy as a snuggle, don't struggle. We're happy to snuggle up to whatever else you're doing in your organization. We're not here to struggle and say you need to do everything through SAP. You don't. What we want you to do is be able to access SAP data in the most efficient manner possible, in most inexpensive manner possible, and to be able to deal with changes to the environment that come with upgrades, [00:24:33] with new advancements in the technology that are bound to happen because we're living in a, a pace of super hyper change, especially with AI. We're, we're in a position to deliver that data for whatever need it is, whether it's an SAP centric or a non SAP centric. But using business data cloud is the fastest way to get to the data. [00:24:56] Already curated, already ready to go for whatever need is. The business may have. [00:25:02] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah, I think the bottom line is the speed that you get and the speed is what's going to count in the future. So it seems like the, the BDC answer will be: how do you make that access to the data as quickly as possible in order to get that, you know, get benefit out of that information. [00:25:20] Shawn Brown: For sure, time is. Time is money. [00:25:23] Mustansir Saifuddin: Time is money. [00:25:23] Exactly. So I think that leads me to my last question. What's one key takeaway from this session that you want to leave with our listeners? [00:25:33] Shawn Brown: Yeah. I would say, I'm gonna lean in on something I said earlier, you know, which is SAP's the best at delivering SAP data. Nobody understands the data and the needs of the data better than we do. And the reason for that is because we have 50 years of talking to organizations in different lines of business, in different industries and knowing what it is that they're looking to do with our data structures, right? [00:26:05] It's their data. But the structure upon that data is something that SAP has created, and largely we've evolved what those backend data models look like. We've evolved what the different fields are that we capture because we understand what organizations are trying to do with the data that they're collecting and placing in the SAP systems. [00:26:30] So knowing that, know that when the business comes to the data and analytics teams in the organization and they say, we need a report that says this, they're likely going to leave something out. They're likely not going to include everything that is being asked for, and the data and analytics organization's gonna do their best to deliver what the business is asked for. [00:26:55] Not knowing oftentimes that they're missing things, that relationships that they need to take into account are something that requires real understanding of the backend business application for SAP. What we can do with Business Data Cloud is simplify the world for the data and analytics teams, the IT department. [00:27:22] It's a lot of effort, a lot of work that they have had to do in the past that SAP is taking on for them and then just delivering what it is that the business is going to ask for. Even if the business doesn't know yet that they need another data element, it's already there from SAP from our data products. [00:27:42] It comes back to the same thing that we've said before, which is time is money. The faster we can deliver these data products to our customers, and the customer says, well, the business says this: this has everything that I want except this, except this is just a click, one [00:28:00] click, and you turn it on. [00:28:01] You add one more data element rather than, okay, now I need to go ahead and take a look at where I'm getting the data from, whether I'm actually at the database level or whether I'm actually, you know, do using some best practices and using those core data services that SAP provides. Instead of having to know all of the backend relationships and the things that you might have to pull, on top of what was requested by the business, the data's already curated. [00:28:27] It's already there for you. Now, that's the part that customers have gotta take away from, which is we're delivering speed. Speed gives you that opportunity to consume the data as quickly as possible. And then the, the one other thing I'll say and know you asked for one, but at the, this one goes directly with it, which is you're gonna have visualizations that you're going to need to develop. [00:28:53] Those visualizations are things that we already knew that customers have been asking for over and over and over. We've had a rich history of building business content for our customers, and now it's just a matter of now putting it into a visualization that is software as a service, push a button and it's available. [00:29:14] Start consuming it. It's about speed. Delivering those data products curated quickly and then about delivering, delivering those visualizations. So I think, I think that's, that's really the, the, in a nutshell the big, big elements that customers need to understand about the benefits of Business Data Cloud. [00:29:33] Mustansir Saifuddin: That is great. Thanks. What I'm hearing from you is it's all about how quickly you can make it happen. What are the, the different pieces that you can leverage if you are a BW customer and then not losing those investments at the same time, be able to get up and run much quicker than if you are taking a different path either adopting party solution versus, you know, keep using your current environment but not able to utilize some of the changes that are coming up in the Business Data Cloud. And I think it's just a way of speeding up your journey for AI. [00:30:12] Shawn Brown: Absolutely. [00:30:12] Mustansir Saifuddin: Thank you for the time you spent with us. It's been a pleasure and it's been very informative, so thank you. [00:30:18] Shawn Brown: Great. Thanks, Mustansir. I appreciate the time as well. [00:30:22] Mustansir Saifuddin: Thanks for listening to Tech Driven Business, brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. Sean shared valuable roadmaps for SAP BW and BPC customers to BDC. Sean's key takeaway with 50 years of experience. SAP understands its own data structures better than anyone. It's about leveraging their expertise to gain speed. [00:30:51] Use BD, C to dramatically accelerate your journey from data to insight and ai. We would love to hear from you. Continue the conversation by connecting with me on LinkedIn or X. Learn more about innovative solution partners and schedule a free consultation by visiting i solution partners.com. Never miss a podcast by subscribing to our YouTube channel. [00:31:16] Information is in the show notes.

Zo Lopez & Bizaro join us this week to discuss their future plans in the Dawg Game! This crew of 3 (Sean Brown) has a lot of cool things popping off!!! We're excited to see how it all unfolds!!!If you have any questions, comments or topics or would like to be a  part of the podcast please email us at thedawgfellaspodcast@gmail.com. Also make sure you follow us on our social media accounts to stay up to date with the podcast and our special guests and other cool things we have going on! November 15, 2025 Merle Mint Bullies & Parkway Kennels Presents The Bully Fall Brawl. 2x Sanctioned TCBR Show/ Fun Show & Car Show!!! Lubbock Memorial Civic Center, 1501 Mac Davis Lane, Lubbock, Texas. For more info contact Xavier Guerra or Jaime Garcia via Facebook. Special Guest: Zo LopezSpecial Guest: BizarroFB: Zo LopezFB: Sean BrownFB: Bizarro RBIG: @Zolo_bulldogsIG: @themerleking_ralloIG: @bizarro194IG:raw_dog_mediaTIKTOK-@rawgogmediaIG: @The_DawgFellas_PodcastIG: @_houseofbulliesIG: @texas_frenchie_plugIG: @interstate_27_frenchiesIG: @txbulliemafiaFB: The DawgFellas PodcastFB: Shelbi ReaFB: Anthony RayFB: Amito ZerrataFB: Montanaline Gabriel

Dive into the future of enterprise data with the latest episode of Tech-Driven Business. Mustansir Saifuddin welcomes Shawn Brown, of SAP, for Part 1 of an in-depth exploration of the SAP Business Data Cloud (BDC). If you're navigating the complexities of data management and analytics within the SAP ecosystem, this episode is unmissable. Shawn breaks down the fundamental 'why' behind BDC, revealing how it's engineered to drastically reduce data preparation time, cut costs, and empower businesses to make faster, more accurate decisions. Tune in to understand how you can your team can take advantage of all that BDC offers to SAP customers looking to unlock true value from their data. With over two decades of experience in SAP solutions, Shawn Brown currently serves as Senior Director for SAP's Center of Excellence. Known for expertly identifying customer needs, Mr. Brown excels in presenting tailored solutions involving Business Technology Platform, Business Data Cloud, S4HANA, and Business AI. A proven leader in demand generation and partner relationship management, Mr. Brown has successfully driven initiatives that enhance customer experience and streamline cloud solution adoption. Renowned as a thought leader and strategist, Mr. Brown frequently shares insights with CIOs and business influencers, fostering strong, trust-based relationships across multiple industries.   Connect with Us: LinkedIn: Shawn Brown:  Mustansir Saifuddin:  Innovative Solution Partners  X:  @Mmsaifuddin YouTube or learn more about our sponsor Innovative Solution Partners to schedule a free consultation.    Episode Transcript [00:00:00] Mustansir Saifuddin: Welcome to Tech- Driven Business, brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. I'm honored to have Sean Brown of SAP join me to kick off an essential two part series to unpack a topic that's on every SAP user's mind. The Business Data Cloud or BDC. If you're looking to understand how BDC can transform your data landscape and drive real business value, you are in the right place. [00:00:32] . [00:00:32] Welcome to Tech- Driven Business, Shawn. How are you? [00:00:35] Shawn Brown: I am good. I'm good. Things are going well, staying busy. [00:00:38] Mustansir Saifuddin: That's awesome. That's awesome. So glad to have you on our show and I'm really excited for the topic that we are going to discuss today. You ready for it? [00:00:47] Shawn Brown: I am. I'm excited as well. [00:00:51] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah, so I, I know we had talked in the past a couple of times and right now , the hot topic everybody's talking about from SAP and in general is the whole idea, the concept, and now the actual product called Business Data Cloud and what it really means for SAP customers. I like to use this time to dig deeper into this conversation and have a better understanding of exactly what this brings, what kind of landscapes that are changing with this new product, and to expect, you know, if you're a customer interested into, in going forward with BDC. [00:01:28] Shawn Brown: -. [00:01:28] Sure. That sounds great. Yeah. [00:01:32] Mustansir Saifuddin: Awesome. Okay. So I think every time we, we have this new products, right? And SAP is really good about and talk, people talk about rebranding and all that. Let's talk about the why of why should SAP customers adopt BDC. What is different about BDC that SAP customers should be asking that question. [00:01:53] Why? [00:01:55] Shawn Brown: Yeah, this is, this is my favorite question to start. Anything in the space that is outside of packaged solutions, you know ERP, HR Supply Chain and, and the capabilities we have in those areas because the why is something that it, it should be the driver for everything. Right? And, and for BDC, I would say the first thing we wanna talk about is it's a, it's a new product. [00:02:24] But it's an evolution of everything that we've been doing for years. It's, it's capabilities that our customers already know about. And it's taking all of the capabilities that we have offered over the time that we've been, been in the data and analytics space. And it's the, I call it a next generation, right? [00:02:45] It's the next generation of what was. And so when we get into the why. I would say the first thing that we really gotta say is, is the reason for BDC is it is to short circuit the amount of time it takes to prepare from data to finally analytics and planning and all the steps in between, where we're often times organizations see it as this, this wheel that. [00:03:15] They start with the data that's in the source system. They're gonna extract a, transform it loaded profile it, catalog it you know, press governance on it. Maybe make it in, you know, in a marketplace setting. Organize it so that it can be easily digestible, create some standard analytics, and then now we can actually start analyzing it. [00:03:34] And the why is really about reducing the amount of time it takes to go around that whole wheel of, Data all the way around to analytics and planning and reduce the amount of prep time and increase the amount of analysis time. Because if we think about how much time a person gets to analyze the [00:04:00] data, let's say for example, and this is a, this is actually a number that is, has been verified with numerous customers and with, the analyst firms like Gartner and Forrester and TDWI is that it takes as much as 70% or more of the actual workload and investment to go from data to analytics. That's not, so that means the analytics is just 30% or less of the time. So if we think about how much each question costs. You have to add in all of that cost that even deliver up the analytical or, or deliver up the, the data in a way that it can be analyzed. [00:04:45] So BDCs goal is to shrink that time of preparation and actual delivery of data for the analyst purpose or for the AI purpose, or for any application purpose. Shrink it as much as possible so that, the questions that are asked are cheaper, and essentially we can ask more questions. We don't have to continue to reformat the data, deliver the data in a new way to get to the final answers that we're trying to seek. [00:05:20] So I would say savings and costs. Savings and money. More data, more, more analysis time. That's the why for BDC. [00:05:31] Mustansir Saifuddin: Yeah, it totally makes sense. I think one of the things that while you're talking about this that stuck out for me was, we always talk about time value, right? And, especially when it comes to analytics, It's such a critical part of any organization's path forward and the numbers that you're just sharing from Gartner and other resources, [00:05:51] where if the majority of the time is gone into the data collection, the data refinement, all that, there's no time left or a very minimal time for your analytics part, which makes it really difficult for organizations to make quick decisions. So I think what I'm hearing from you, the why: the time value becomes very important in this case. [00:06:13] Shawn Brown: Correct. Absolutely. [00:06:16] Mustansir Saifuddin: That's good because that kind of takes me into this conversation, like, Hey, benefits. When you have that, why understood, what are some of the benefits that BDC will provide to SAP customers who want to go on the journey? Because benefits is really the reason why it will make sense for them to move forward. [00:06:33] Shawn Brown: For sure, for sure. And this is the one that's always interesting for organizations because they're focused so much on the actual preparation of the data that oftentimes the benefits that they can glean from all of that effort are, are fleeting, so they look at the, the overall effort and they go, oh yeah, there's, there's a lot here that is really based on, on how much it took to get here. [00:07:01] And the faster we can deliver the capabilities for analysis purposes for any AI purposes, the faster we can make decisions. The faster we can adjust based on those decisions. And so when you think about the speed at which organizations operate, to be able to answer those questions faster is probably the number one benefit that you can get. [00:07:27] And then you also get into accuracy. What, what questions are we asking? And if we don't have to go through this rigorous effort of moving data from all of these source systems and joining it all back together, and then building all that business context. Data integrity, is that a, a concern? It is for most organizations, they're concerned about what this looks like at its end state. [00:07:57] And the other thing that still [00:08:00] exists in the world of business, especially in the analytics space, is the typical spread marked problem. Where people just take the data that they're looking for, they extract it out of whatever solution it's been delivered to them. Maybe it's cheap cloud storage on flat files, or maybe it's been all dumped into an ODS, an operational data store, and then they're accessing the data as they like. [00:08:26] If they don't understand the details of the data and the relationships that occur with the data, and they don't have the original business context that the data came from in its source system, then if they do extract it to whatever they like, then somebody can walk into a meeting with one version of the truth and another can walk in with another version of the truth. [00:08:48] They all can believe that they're accurate. They all can argue over why their version of truth is correct and the others is not. So the confidence in the data is the other thing. We take away a lot of those concerns, because when you have it coming from those source systems and the preparation of that data has been provided in this case by SAP, for SAP systems, at a minimum, you're going to have much more confidence that the data [00:09:17] is delivered to you in a way that respects all of the integrity that it came from. That the accuracy of the data is as accurate as it was entered into the business application upon which it was the source. So the speed of delivery, the accuracy of the data. These are, these are major advantages that you get with regards to using BDC versus [00:09:43] the, the older school, I'll call it older school 'cause I'm an old guy. The old days of Bill Inman and star schemas and relational database systems that we created. These massive data warehouses. It's an older school thought, and it was one that was born outta this idea that we had to get the data from those source systems because we couldn't query the source systems at runtime. [00:10:06] All those things contribute to, to today where we're curating the data for you. It's been curated by SAP from all SAP systems, so if you have any questions about the quality of the data, in that case, you then you should have questions about the quality of your data in its source. there's a bigger issue, so speed of delivery, accuracy of data. [00:10:32] Those are probably my, my two top benefits that customers are going to get out of this. [00:10:38] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely. That makes total sense. I think one of the things that really stuck out for me was the whole concept of end-to-end governance . Does BDC do a better job? And how, is that integrated to this whole BDC realm of the different pieces that makes up BDC? How is data governance and security working within those parameters? [00:11:03] Shawn Brown: Yeah. So in BDC, you're getting role level security on all the data. At that point then you're asking questions like, where do I, how do my users access the data? What are they allowed to see? What are they not allowed to see? All those capabilities can be integrated into BDC. You, you can deliver all of those capabilities directly within BDC. [00:11:27] You start off by setting up some broader, who's the, who's the group? What systems are they accessing? So if I'm in finance and I'm looking at finance data, I probably have access to let's say S/4HANA as the backend system that is storing all this data. All the users within the finance team that have access to S/4HANA can have access to that space of data. [00:11:55] And I use that word space because this is a concept that, again, there's nothing [00:12:00] new. We've invited these concepts into our thinking a while ago, and now it's just another generation of what we're doing here. So that idea of a space is I can include the data that is necessary for a line of business hr, finance, supply chain, and that's what they can see. [00:12:20] And if I need to, all of the rest of the data is accessible through BDC. It's just a question of whether I want to provide the rights to access those other data sets to another line of business, for example. So if I said I wanted to join let's say expense information that's in Concur with employee information, that's in success factors, I can easily join those data sets [00:12:48] bring in forward, from one space to another. And decide at a row level and column level, what individual data set I need to join across groups or individuals, if you will. [00:13:06] Mustansir Saifuddin: I think that's super good because that's where a lot of the questions come in. You know, every time you do move your data from one environment to another environment that you need to have your own new set of governance and security and, it can be role level security or whatever else you wanna do, [00:13:21] you have to kind of redefine that. It seems like it's all built into the BDC portfolio. You're leveraging your source system objects and then be able to apply the same rules that you may have built in. [00:13:37] Shawn Brown: Yeah, the, the analogy I always liked was it's kind of like, and I don't know if they're really like this. I mean, maybe there are not. I just remember old movies that you'd have these Japanese styled homes and they were like, the walls that were almost paper thin, that you could, you almost felt like you could just push your hand right through the wall and just grab something that was in the other room. [00:13:57] I liken it a bit like that in terms of spaces. The spaces are separated in that way with a, a level of access that is very simple to provide when necessary, but distinctly in separate spaces, separate areas, so that that's the benefit. That's the simplicity of being able to access data from any LOB or any third party for that matter. [00:14:23] If you wanted to access that third party data in BDC to any other data that's in BDC as well, whether it's finance, hr, supply chain, whatever it may be, warehouse inventory, whatever it may be. [00:14:38] Mustansir Saifuddin: Totally. Now, since we talked about the benefits, let's look into the details. Like what steps are involved if someone wants to take on this journey and move to SAP BDC? [00:14:53] Shawn Brown: Much of that begins with where are they right now? Let's take a few different scenarios? if a customer is, let's say, already using some SAP solutions, I would say, let's go with the most rudimentary that has been around for a while now for SAP. Let's talk about, they're using HANA Enterprise. [00:15:09] They've, they've been taking a lot of data from their SAP systems and dropping it into HANA Enterprise on-prem. This is a natural next step to that on-premise approach where you said, all right, I, I don't necessarily wanna be in the position of housing systems like this myself and my own data centers. [00:15:28] I want to put them into the cloud. This is a simple transition , to take the data from a HANA Enterprise, drop it into BDC and start using that data in essentially what would be a component of BDC, Datasphere. But it's built on HANA Cloud. And HANA Cloud is built on the same technology that HANA Enterprise is built on that in terms of its capabilities, what it can do. [00:15:52] It's a natural transition for that case if you're talking about a customer that's already using let's say another old product from [00:16:00] SAP, BW. Right. BW has been a really challenging one for a lot of organizations because they've had such value and such benefit by using BW to access data in SAP with those BW extractors. [00:16:14] And in many cases, they've built a lot of and invested a lot in BW in the framework itself. Creating their own objects, creating their own cubes, creating asos, DSOs and so forth, depending on what versions of BW you're on. Not necessarily wanting to just abandon that investment. There's another great example of is, once you're, once you're at least BW 7.5 and above, we make it very simple for you to go ahead and take all of that in BW investment and move it directly into BDC in its format, in its same format as a BW environment. [00:16:54] BW for HANA, same thing, move it right into BDC, it would be in a cloud-based environment that way as well. And essentially all of those connections back to the source systems still persist. When we talk about how do we take advantage of the investments you have, that's where you say, all right, well, I can access them through the BDC framework in [00:17:16] BW that is now part of BDC and use it for whatever purpose I leave it in BW in that case, or I can start taking those particular assets that I have in BW and using the data product generator that is now part of BW embedded in BDC, I can then change those assets in BW to data products. Which is the lowest level form of data that we have in BDC, and in this case, just for those that may be listening and wondering, am I copying the data? [00:17:51] Yes . And we can come to this in a minute as to why you're copying the data, but we are copying the data from its source system, and we would be copying the data from BW as well, where we wanted to make it a data product in BDC. And we can talk about why that is in a minute. 'cause it's a shift. It, it's a bit of a shift in terms of what we've talked about in the past with regards to a whole play the data where it lies, federate versus materialize [00:18:18] that data in, what was Datasphere, which is now part of BDC. That idea of moving those assets from BW into BDC as data products, over time allows us to decommission those, those deployments of BW. So that's the benefit is, we now have a path for BW customers to migrate to BDC, [00:18:45] not give up those assets that they've created and leveraged for so many years in BDC, and then over time decommission BW altogether. Or, if you're really interested and you really like using BW, keep it. That's the other benefit of moving a BW 7.5 environment to BDC is, you're gonna get three more years of mainstream maintenance. [00:19:09] And for example, for BW/4HANA, we're pushing that end of life date all the way out to 2040. That's a long time that you can hold onto that BW environment if that's what you choose to do. But the benefit of BDC is that we're going to give you the mechanism to actually migrate it over and then as your backend systems, particularly like S4 changes, [00:19:31] you're gonna need to change a lot of what you're doing from a BW extraction anyway. Don't do it in BW anymore. Do it in BDC. Now, those are some of the SAP scenarios, but some of the ones that I get as well are, we already have a strategy with our SAP data. We're pulling it into S3 buckets. [00:19:55] Azure Data Factory, Snowflake , all of these third [00:20:00] party extraction destinations and why would I go ahead and use BDC in that case? And the reality is, you have to ask yourself this question where we started in the first place. How much time and energy are you spending going from data all the way around that wheel to analytics? [00:20:20] If you're like the typical organization and it's north of 70%, 80%, 90% as a CIO, I heard last week talking about this, 90% of their time is spent just moving data to get it prepared for analysis. How much do you want to continue to do that? And nobody likes to be looked at as a cost center. Everybody likes to be seen as somebody that is providing value to the organization. [00:20:50] If you're part of an organization and you are seen as a cost center, because the amount of energy it takes to get the data from where it sits to where it needs to be is exorbitant, nine tenths maybe of the overall cost of asking those questions. That's not a great place to be. If you can shrink that as much as possible, then you can actually live up to some of those things that everybody would like to say. [00:21:19] Like, data is the new gold, data is the new oil. The value of data is, is immeasurable. We can do so much with our business because of the data. We could be a data-driven organization. All of these things can become possible, but not so easy when nine tenths or eight tenths of the cost, it's just getting the data where it needs to be. [00:21:44] That's the big thing that needs to be focused on as it relates to some of these ideas that let's go ahead and do the, what I still call old school extract, transform, load, model, profile, catalog govern and, create all of the overhead that is necessary to actually deliver those analytics back to the organization. [00:22:07] And if, you're in a part of your organization where you think it's good enough for me to just extract all the data and drop it over here and let the business go have fun, that's another one where you're not providing additional value to the organization. [00:22:19] What the business community really wants is they want curated data that is business context aware, that is in a position to help them answer questions out of the box, push button. An actual software as a service. That's what we've got with BDC. So this idea that of you've already got a strategy in place, [00:22:44] it might be working right now because you did a ton of work to get you where you are. But here's the kicker. It's probably all going to change, maybe not next year, but maybe two years or three years, maybe the next time you do some major upgrade and we've become more efficient in terms of how we store the data in the business applications, or, [00:23:12] any of the other business applications that you use, they change their underlying architecture in how they are actually storing the data in those source systems. Guess what just changed with your data strategy? Potentially everything. And we have customers that this has happened to them. Where I've walked into a huge SAP customer and I had a conversation with him where I said, we're gonna go ahead, and this is before we had two separate entities of BDC and BTP. And I walked into this session with the customer and said, here's what we're gonna do. [00:23:43] We're gonna go ahead and tell you everything that we can do in the space of data and analytics and everything within the platform space. And the customer said, I don't think we really need to hear about your data and analytics strategy, because we're pretty well set on that. And I said, I want to talk to you about all these things and I need to talk to you [00:24:00] about this one as well. [00:24:01] This one's not negotiable. I need whoever's responsible for data and analytics to be in the room to discuss this. And that person did arrive and that person pretty much felt like they had everything figured out. They didn't wanna, engage in the conversation at all. Pretty much arms crossed throughout most of the most of the meeting. [00:24:19] And we finally got to a point where they said, all right, I can see that there's some benefits, you know, to how this works. But I'll tell you, they were on ECC on HANA. And so fast forward six months and they're negotiating the RISE opportunity with S4/HANA in a private cloud and RISE, and they now realize that everything needs to be changed. [00:24:50] It's good that we had this conversation with them about how you can access the SAP data through, at the time, Datasphere, which is now Business Data Cloud, because they now understand that for them to be able to get access to the data in the way they want, the fastest way they want, and for the fact that we're curating all that data for them, and then providing them out of the box insights with our insight apps. [00:25:14] This is pretty much a no brainer in their part. They knew that they had to explore it, and they knew they had to explore it for the SAP centric question, but also for the non SAP centric question where they want to pull smaller data sets to non SAP capabilities because we are gonna curate those scenarios through data products that will allow them to pull that data into those non SAP scenarios. [00:25:40] So this, these are some of the big plays, we've got that existing SAP solutions, we've got that non SAP centric approach. And then, ultimately, if you haven't got to the point that you're deciding what you're going to do or you haven't don't have a very mature data strategy, maybe you're a growing company, at some point you're going to need to go ahead and start asking those data and analytics questions. [00:26:05] Just know that it's very expensive, as I've said before, to move the data from one place to another, place it there, do all of those things that we've talked about in the past, and then deliver analytics, just pull it out of the box. The last comment I'll make is "that pull it out of the box" sometimes that's not as useful as we think it is. [00:26:25] If I said, you have to dig a hole, it's 10 feet deep and you started from ground level, you have 10 feet to dig. But if I gave you something that got you 50% of the way, I dug five feet for you, I dug six feet for you, would you rather just dig five more feet or four more feet, or would you just rather start from ground level and dig 10 feet on your own? [00:26:48] That's the value that we were trying to demonstrate through BDC. [00:26:53] Mustansir Saifuddin: Good explanation. And I think it is really clear that a lot of times conversations come up about SAP customers talking about their on-prem, their legacy systems and how they will benefit from BDC, but your examples went beyond HANA Enterprise to other non SAP solutions where customers have already been on the journey and they don't see the value at least at this point. [00:27:20] But, after seeing the example you use, it's very logical for them to start thinking in those terms. Also saying, Hey, I simplify my landscape? Still get , if not same, at least, the value that whatever else that BDC brings to the table, like the whole AI capability, all of that can be leveraged by adopting this platform. On a personal note how do you stay on top of, you know, this changing technology world, and business at the same time. How you keep up with all this? [00:27:58] Shawn Brown: Yeah, as you [00:28:00] might imagine in the space of SAP, oftentimes it's hard enough just staying on top of all of the different options we have and different things that we have in terms of technology. So one of the ways that I like to keep up in, in the SAP space is called the BTP Talk podcast, which is a pretty good one. [00:28:18] It actually goes to a number of different you know, platform and data analytics related scenarios. Data skeptics is another pretty good podcast that I get a kick out of. There's another one I'm trying to think of that I use from time to time as well. [00:28:32] Analytics Power Hour. That's it. Yeah, the Analytics Power Hour is another good one. And, I've been paying attention to Tech-Driven Business as well too, so I like this one too. But, you know, the thing that I've been finding too is that, these days, things move so quickly and we think we know where we're going and then something comes along and, and change makes us change direction again. [00:28:53] And AI has probably been the biggest driver to that. The thing that I would say that that it's probably most interesting in terms of how I've changed how I operate is I actually ask AI to provide resources for me on particular topics. For example mid early last year there was a lot of talk about vector engines and knowledge graphs. [00:29:14] And the easiest thing I found to really kind of get a little bit more, versed on the topics was AI itself. I started asking for resources and, and I'll use for example, ChatGPT in some cases I like using Grok as well. From time to time they seem to provide a little bit different types of approaches and levels of interaction. [00:29:35] I kinda like how, grok will ask me follow up questions, which is pretty neat as well. But that's a great way to learn about topics that you are wanting to become more versed in or learning where the resources are to find those topics. So those, those are some of the things that I like to use. [00:29:58] Mustansir Saifuddin: Great list of ideas to kind of keep up with the changing, I mean, just everywhere around us. taking from AI to just carries to anything else. A lot of conversations going on so many different directions. How do you even keep up with them? So I'd like your suggestions, and I know we've talked about a lot of different things today. What is the one thing or one takeaway that you want to leave our listeners with? [00:30:24] Shawn Brown: Hmm, probably in, in the audience of that are responsible for data and analytics. If you're a CDAO, or an analyst or somebody that's responsible for enterprise wide analytics: I would focus on two things because these two things are probably the most important to the people that you serve, your business community. [00:30:50] Point number one is, they want analytics quickly. They want to be able to ask questions quickly. They don't wanna wait. They don't want to say this report, these data sets that you've provided me, they look really interesting, but I'd like to add this and this and this, and when can I have that? [00:31:12] If you can't say you can have that now, then you're taking too long. The other point is. We need to stop being looked at as a cost center. We need to stop being looked at as a place that is a necessary evil. We gotta ask questions of the system. We've gotta extract data everywhere and put it in someplace that we can start answering questions or even not even doing to the extent of actually providing the analytics out of the box. [00:31:40] Instead, we're just providing data sets for people to access. We need to be able to offer real value to the business community. Those are the ones that are footing the bill. Those are the ones that are actually paying for everything. So we need to be in a position to deliver it very quickly, [00:32:00] and it needs to not be expensive, and it needs to be accurate. [00:32:06] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely [00:32:07] Shawn Brown: Those are the elements I think are the key takeaways. That's really the foundation of what we're doing with Business Data Cloud. That's the whole purpose behind it. [00:32:16] Mustansir Saifuddin: Absolutely great advice and a great way to sum up the session. It's been a great conversation. There's so much to gain from this product and, and direction, that SAP's taking. I'd like to thank you very much for joining us today in our show, and look forward to having further detailed conversation with you. [00:32:36] Shawn Brown: Thanks, I appreciate your time as well. [00:32:39] Mustansir Saifuddin: Thanks for listening to Tech-Driven Business, brought to you by Innovative Solution Partners. We have covered the critical why behind BDC, the immense time and cost savings it promises, and the tangible benefits like enhanced speed and accuracy for SAP customers. Sean's key takeaway? Focus on delivering analytics quickly to your business community and strive to offer real accurate value moving away from being seen as just a cost center. [00:33:15] . We would love to hear from you. Continue the conversation by connecting with me on LinkedIn or X. Learn more about Innovative Solution Partners and schedule a free consultation by visiting isolutionpartners.com. Never miss a podcast by subscribing to our YouTube channel. Information is in the show notes.

Today, we're spotlighting another incredible Business By Design Success Story! Meet Sean Brown, a senior portrait photographer who not only built a 6-figure photography business, but now empowers other photographers to achieve similar results. In this episode, Sean reveals the exact strategies from BBD he has used to scale his photography education business and how he's maintained an incredibly high retention rate in the process. Sean also opens up about the mindset shifts that were needed to embrace his dual role as a successful photographer and educator, why outsourcing is a necessity regardless of what phase of business you are currently in, and so much more. Get ready, because this Digital CEO's journey is sure to inspire and give you clarity on the next steps of your journey!  We just released the replays of my free 3-day training for digital course creators, called Your First Digital Product, which was the largest free masterclass that we've ever hosted! For a limited time only, you can get the replay at www.jameswedmore.com/fdp, but hurry as it's only available until today, May 28th.  Tomorrow, May 29th, we kick off our live virtual extravaganza that happens just once a year - it's our 3-part live week-long training experience, The Rise of the Digital CEO. You register and reserve your seat NOW at ​​www.businessbydesign.net/rise!  Before you go, snap a screenshot of the episode playing on your device, post it to your Instagram Stories and tag us, @jameswedmore @jeunejenni and @seniorphotoeducation.  In this episode you'll hear:  How Sean built a thriving senior photography business and now helps other photographers achieve more time, flexibility, and financial freedom Why he felt something was still missing and what led him to BBD even after having a successful membership launch in 2020 The powerful “football phone” strategy Sean learned in BBD that dramatically boosted membership conversions from 5 to 15 percent overnight  A breakdown of his simple, yet effective content delivery model for his membership  Sean's process of challenging the mindset that teaching limits success, and the big shifts he's made since in this area since joining BBD  The key lessons he's learned about outsourcing and why hiring a VA isn't just for established businesses, but essential for entrepreneurs just starting out as well  His best advice for people just starting out in the online space and how they can use BBD to achieve success as a Digital CEO  For full show notes and links, visit: www.mindyourbusinesspodcast.com/blog/768 

Siobhan Brown, daughter of murdered GAA chairman Sean Brown, discusses the family's meeting with Tánaiste, Simon Harris, as the family campaigns for a full public inquiry.

Niall Murphy, solicitor with KRW Law in Belfast, discusses the British government's decision to appeal a court ruling for a public inquiry into the murder of Sean Brown in 1997.

Hour one of our NHL Trade Deadline Show! Joined by Jason Gregor and Sean Brown we react to all the news around the league including Rantanen to Dallas, Cozens to Ottawa, Laughton to Toronto and more! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

During Hour 3 former NHLer Sean Brown joined the show offering his thoughts on the Oilers' recent struggles. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

During Hour 1 former NHLer and co-host on The Jason Gregor Show Sean Brown joined the program to break down the Oilers' first win of the season. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Casement Must Be Built Now. British government policy toward Ireland has long been dictated by Britain's strategic self-interests. From the conquest of Ireland nine centuries ago to partition the needs of the people of Ireland have played no meaningful part in the decision making processes of a British state that focusses primarily on the interests of England and the English economy. Consequently, Labour and Tory governments have each ensured that funding from Westminster has never been adequate to deal with the many social and economic demands of society here. The North – denied our right to our own fiscal powers - is a partitioned backwater that has consistently been at the bottom of London's agenda.Sean BrownThe refusal of the British to hold a public Inquiry into the killing of Sean Brown is also particularly reprehensible. At the inquest it was revealed that 25 people, including state agents, had been linked to Mr Brown's murder and that surveillance on a key suspect – Mark Fulton - was suspended the night before the murder and reinstated the following day.Prepare for UnityThis column makes no apology for believing the people of the island of Ireland have the right to self-determination. But there is now a growing body of public opinion beyond Irish republicans who believe that the current constitutional arrangements are not working. On the contrary it is self-evident – as evidenced by the recent decisions - that the union with Britain works to our disadvantage. We therefore need to honestly, respectfully, and publicly encourage a conversation that looks beyond the current deeply flawed constitutional arrangements and examine the enormous potential that Irish Unity offers.

Niall Murphy, solicitor with KRW Law in Belfast, discusses the imminent decision for the family of Sean Brown on their call for a public inquiry into his death.

This afternoon the family of murdered County Derry GAA official Sean Brown has been told that the British government will not establish a public inquiry into the killing. Cormac speaks to Sean's Grandson- Daman Browne about the news.

During Hour 4 former NHLer Sean Brown joined the show discussing his summer and activity heading into the fall plus his thoughts on the departure of Philip Broberg from the Oilers. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The NC State football season is rapidly approaching and fall camp is about to start. Before we get to that point, Cory Smith and Michael Clark will have complete breakdowns of each position group heading into the 2024 season. In this episode, the guys will take an in-depth look at the linebacker position. What steps has the Wolfpack taken this offseason to replace Payton Wilson? How much growth have we seen from Caden Fordham and Sean Brown this offseason? How is the battle for the final outside linebacker spot shaping up? We've got all that and more on the latest position preview podcast!

The NC State football season opens in less than five weeks with the Wolfpack kicking off against Western Carolina. The Pack brings back a wealth of experience from last year's squad along with one of the best transfer recruiting classes in the country. On this Sunday Sit Down with Pack Pride, Wolfpack linebacker Sean Brown discusses his move from the safety position. He breaks down the reason for switching to linebacker, how the room is moving forward without Payton Wilson, the growth of Caden Fordham, his relationship with Tony Gibson and much more.

In this very special episode of Steal My Strategy, we're republishing, with permission, a webinar featuring Robert Sofia, CEO of Snappy Kraken, who joined as a guest with Sean Brown, CEO of YCharts.They discussed and revealed key takeaways from YCharts' 2024 Advisor-Client Communication Survey.It was too good not to share.To follow along with the presentation you can DOWNLOAD THE FREE REPORTS:YCharts' 2024 Advisor-Client Communication Survey: https://go.ycharts.com/2024-advisor-client-communication-surveySnappy Kraken's 2024 State of Digital Report: https://snappykraken.com/state-of-digitalWe Explore: Navigate evolving client communication expectations amidst market shifts.Implement top-tier communication tactics to fortify client retention and spark referralsHow to harness YCharts' latest research and Snappy Kraken's State of Digital report to tailor a client-centric approach for impactful AUM growthAnd the MANY Strategies Sean & Robert deliver that are data-driven and proven to deepen client relationships and drive engagementLinks to Check Out:WATCH the recording here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0lMvo7ZoFY Stay Up-to-Date on All Future YCharts Webinars: https://go.ycharts.com/webinarWant to see how YCharts can enhance your investment research? Get started with a Free 7-Day Trial here: https://tinyurl.com/ysrdy97kFollow YCharts on social media: https://x.com/intent/follow?screen_name=ychartsThis episode was brought to you by snappykraken.com helping advisors create meaningful connections that drive business.

During Hour 1 former NHLer and co-host on The Jason Gregor Show joined the program to recap game two between the Oilers and Panthers. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

During Hour 3 former NHLer Sean Brown joined the show to further break down the Oilers' 5-2 win in game four. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Thanks for watching/listening! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/qool-hand-pod/support

This morning on the show Pat speaks to the family of GAA Chairman Sean Brown on their quest for answers on their father's murder. Sean Brown was murdered in Bellaghy in May 1997. Joining Pat this morning was Siobhan Brown daughter of Sean Brown and also Daman Brown who is his grandson.

Michigan State football and Jonathan Smith landed its first commit for the 2025 class in 3-star Leo Hannan. What does the California kid show that has us thinking a 4-star bump is near, and why is he an important anchor for this class? MSU transfer portal news got busy with Anthony Jones being added while Antonio Gates Jr., Sean Brown and Davion Primm have exited. Also, why are we feeling good about both MSU football and basketball's portal seasons so far?Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Monopoly GO!Get in the game and join your friends. Download MONOPOLY GO! now free on The App Store or Google Play. LinkedInThese days every new potential hire can feel like a high stakes wager for your small business. That's why LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team, faster and for free. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/lockedoncollege. Terms and conditions apply.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONCOLLEGE for $20 off your first purchase.FanDuelFanDuel, America's Number One Sportsbook. Right now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning GUARANTEED That's A HUNDRED AND FIFTY BUCKS – win or lose! Visit FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON to get started. eBay MotorsFrom brakes to exhaust kits and beyond, eBay Motors has over 122 million parts to keep your ride-or-die alive. With all the parts you need at the prices you want, it's easy to bring home that big win. Keep your ride-or-die alive at EbayMotors.com. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)

New documentary sheds light on the unanswered questions of the family of Sean Brown as a date for enactment of Troubles Legacy Act approaches. Trevor Birney Emmy-nominated producer and director of the documentary, Murder of a GAA Chairman on RTÉ One and RTÉ Player, Monday, April 22nd at 9:35pm.

During Hour 1 former NHLer and now Friday co-host of The Jason Gregor Show Sean Brown joined the show to recap the Oilers' resounding win over the Sharks. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Get ready to turn those "maybes" into cha-chings and doubts into deals as I sit down and talk through all things video marketing and overcoming client objections with today's guest, Sean Brown. Sean Brown is based in the beautiful Pacific Northwest and is a high school senior photographer, has built an incredible business, coaches other photographers, and also gets invited to speak on national stages. I invited him onto the show today to pick his brain and have him share the incredible video marketing strategy that's grow his business, how to overcome client objections through video, and how we can elevate our marketing game to land paid, in-person speaking engagements. In this episode, Jessie & Sean discuss: What initially compelled Sean to incorporate video into his marketing strategy, and how video marketing has completely transformed his business The foundational benefits of incorporating both short-and long-form video into your marketing strategy as a coach, creative, solopreneur, or small business The "Coffee Shop" analogy and how it applies to video marketing A complete breakdown of how we can overcoming client objections through video The essential tools / resources Sean recommends to create a successful video The role video marketing plays in landing paid speaking engagements, and tips for those looking to get paid to speak And so much more! — WORK WITH JESSIE 1:1: ⁠⁠Click here to schedule a clarity call with me.⁠⁠ — GET THE BRAND ATTRACTION BLUEPRINT: Discover the EXACT step-by-step blueprint my clients are using to create magnetic personal brands that attract more aligned leads, book out their services, and get on the path to consistent $10k months (and beyond!) — https://www.jessie-christensen.com/blueprint — To connect with Jessie: Instagram: ⁠⁠@jessie__christensen⁠⁠ Email: ⁠⁠hello@jessie-christensen.com⁠⁠ Website:⁠⁠ jessie-christensen.com⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠linkedin.com/in/jessieachristensen⁠⁠ Pinterest: ⁠⁠pinterest.com/jessie_christensen/_saved⁠⁠ — To connect with Sean: Podcast: https://seniorphotographyeducation.com/podcast/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seniorphotoeducation Senior Photography Crash Course: https://mailchi.mp/f440769d0946/senior-photography-crash-course

As he locked up Bellaghy Wolfe Tone GAA Club in May 1997, Sean Brown was murdered by loyalist gunmen. The sense of injustice has deepened since the British Government passed the Legacy Act last year. This week, a High Court judge Mr Justice Kinney was so appalled by the behaviour of the state that he pulled the plug on the inquest and recommended a public inquiry. This on the day the inquest was told that surveillance of a leading suspect had mysteriously been suspended on the day of the murder.Among those present at the inquest was the new GAA president Jarlath Burns, a man who has embraced his Protestant neighbours, vocally supported the PSNI before it was popular and is as happy at Windsor park as he is in Croke park (unless Armagh are playing).On Free State, Joe and Dion look at the case and the relentless search for justice.Free State with Joe Brolly and Dion Fanning is a Gold Hat Production in association with SwanMcG.For more on Free State: https://freestatepodcast.com/To get in touch with the podcast: info@freestatepodcast.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Does your photography business ever feel like it's just too “heavy” to maintain? Is your messaging lacking a clear strategy that sets you apart from the competition? Are you struggling to attract your ideal clients on a consistent basis?In today's episode, I'm interviewing Sean Brown, a professional senior photographer and educator who has mastered the systems, strategy, and authenticity required to launch a successful photography business. We cover so many important points from taking a leap of faith, to laying the foundation that'll allow you to scale your business, to why the work that we do can be life changing for struggling youth. If you want to set your photography business up for long-term success, then this is the episode to help you do it!What's in this episode:[02:53] Sean's leap from the medical field into photography[10:12] The power of branding and taking your business seriously[16:36] How showing up with authenticity can help you attract more clients[26:10] The 3 phase launch framework and where photographers get hung up the most[38:23] The messaging blueprint for successfully promoting your business on social mediaTune in to this episode to learn how leveraging systems and authenticity can help you scale your photography business.For full show notes, resources, links and to download the transcript, visit our website: https://themilkyway.ca/countdown-to-success-using-the-rocketship-blueprint-to-propel-your-photography-business-forward-with-senior-photographer-sean-brown/Grab the replay for the 2024 Online Newborn Retreat!

We talk to Siobhan Brown, the daughter of Sean Brown.

In this episode, we share advice and insights for new CEOs about how they can make a strong start in the role. Sean Brown is joined by Carolyn Dewar, a senior partner in our San Francisco office who is the founder and co-leader of our CEO Excellence Practice. She is also a co-author of last year's NY Times bestseller, CEO Excellence: The Six Mindsets That Distinguish the Best Leaders from the Rest. Joining Carolyn is Kurt Strovink, a senior partner in our New York office and co-leader of our global CEO initiative. He serves as a counselor to CEOs across industries and is a co-author, with Carolyn, of the Mckinsey.com article, Starting strong: Making your CEO transition a catalyst for renewal. Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com If you would like to receive alerts on our latest insights, you can sign up at McKinsey.com/scf Join 90,000 other members of our LinkedIn community: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/mckinsey-strategy-&-corporate-finance/See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

In this episode, we share advice and insights for new CEOs about how they can make a strong start in the role. Sean Brown is joined by Carolyn Dewar, a senior partner in our San Francisco office who is the founder and co-leader of our CEO Excellence Practice. She is also a co-author of last year's NY Times bestseller, CEO Excellence: The Six Mindsets That Distinguish the Best Leaders from the Rest. Joining Carolyn is Kurt Strovink, a senior partner in our New York office and co-leader of our global CEO initiative. He serves as a counselor to CEOs across industries and is a co-author, with Carolyn, of the Mckinsey.com article, Starting strong: Making your CEO transition a catalyst for renewal. Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on X at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com If you would like to receive alerts on our latest insights, you can sign up at McKinsey.com/scf Join 90,000 other members of our LinkedIn community: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/mckinsey-strategy-&-corporate-finance/See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

Sean Brown was born in Oshawa, Ontario in 1976. Following a successful run in the OHL he moved to the NHL, playing for the Edmonton Oilers, Boston Bruins, New Jersey Devils and Vancouver Canucks.My Hockey Hero is proudly supported by eBay Canada. Start your own collection at ebay.ca/hockeycardsTo learn more on how you can help make hockey accessible to all, check out hockeyequality.orgThe see the Black Hockey card collection and learn more go to www.blackhockeycards.comWant to here more? The extended interview can be found at Recognize: Black Heroes of the NHLProduced by Podstarter Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sean Brown was born in Oshawa, Ontario in 1976. Following a successful run in the OHL he moved to the NHL, playing for the Edmonton Oilers, Boston Bruins, New Jersey Devils and Vancouver Canucks.My Hockey Hero is proudly supported by eBay Canada. Start your own collection at ebay.ca/hockeycardsTo learn more on how you can help make hockey accessible to all, check out hockeyequality.orgThe see the Black Hockey card collection and learn more go to www.blackhockeycards.comWant to here more? The extended interview can be found at Recognize: Black Heroes of the NHLProduced by Podstarter Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

We speak to the solicitor for the family of Sean Brown, Niall Murphy from KRW Law in Belfast.

Are you still doing the same thing with your clients that you've been doing for the past decade? Have you noticed an uptick in client churn? That's not a coincidence. 

Are you still doing the same thing with your clients that you've been doing for the past decade? Have you noticed an uptick in client churn? That's not a coincidence. 

Welcome back to Amplified! Today we have Sean Brown, a Skateboarder and Content Creator from North Carolina to talk about skating, girls, traveling, and so much more. Hope you enjoy!

Juvencio Maeztu is Deputy CEO and CFO of Ingka Group. Ingka Group is IKEA's primary retail organization and represents roughly 90% of its global sales. Juvencio joined IKEA in 2001 and prior to starting his current role, he led IKEA India as CEO for over 6 years. Juvencio sat down with Sean Brown in London to discuss the company's triple bottom line: successfully meeting customer needs, achieving financial outperformance, and ensuring a sustainable environmental footprint. Join our LinkedIn community of more than 89,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy. Explore our collection of Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.comSee www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

Juvencio Maeztu is Deputy CEO and CFO of Ingka Group. Ingka Group is IKEA's primary retail organization and represents roughly 90% of its global sales. Juvencio joined IKEA in 2001 and prior to starting his current role, he led IKEA India as CEO for over 6 years. Juvencio sat down with Sean Brown in London to discuss the company's triple bottom line: successfully meeting customer needs, achieving financial outperformance, and ensuring a sustainable environmental footprint. Join our LinkedIn community of more than 89,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy. Explore our collection of Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.comJoin 90,000 other members of our LinkedIn community: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/mckinsey-strategy-&-corporate-finance/See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

The College Football Experience (@TCEonSGPN) on the Sports Gambling Podcast Network continues its 133 college football 2023 season preview series with the Jacksonville State Gamecocks. Pick Dundee aka (@TheColbyD) & Patty C (@PattyC831) break down the upcoming 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks offense, defense, special teams and key in on what they did in the transfer portal. Will Rich Rodriguez and the Jacksonville State Gamecocks walk right into the FBS and have winning seasons like Georgia Southern, Appalachian State & James Madison did? Plus, Michael Barker aka (@CFBcampustour) hops on the show to talk about his experiences to Burgess-Snow Field at JSU Stadium in Jacksonville, Alabama.Will the Rich Rodriguez offense take a huge step in year two of his system? Is Zion Webb the oldest quarterback in all of college football and does his experience give Jacksonville State a leg up on the rest of the Conference USA? Is the run game looking good with the return of Anwar Lewis, Ron Wiggins and the transfer portal addition of Malik Jackson from ULM? Should the wide receiving core be better in 2023 with the likes of Sterling Galban and PJ Wells returning and landing Jamarye Joiner from Arizona? Is tight end Sean Brown a name to lookout for in 2023? Does returning 4 of 5 on the offensive line mean JSU should be a tough out for every team they face in the FBS?Will the Jacksonville State defense take the next step? Will the defensive line be a force with the return of Chris Hardie, Jackson Luttrell and Jeff Marks? Is the linebacking core lacking experience? Can the secondary be the top unit on the defensive side of the ball since they bring back Jeremiah Harris, Fred Perry, Kolbi Fuqua and Jamari Jemison? We talk it all and more on this 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks season preview edition of The College Football Experience.=====================================================Discuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discordSGPN Merch Store - https://sg.pn/storeDownload The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.appCheck out SGPN.TVSupport us by supporting our partnersCirca Sports - Enter their contests for a chance to win your share of $14 Million - https://www.circasports.com/Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://sg.pn/underdogFollow The College Experience & SGPN On Social MediaTwitter - https://twitter.com/TCEonSGPNTwitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcastInstagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcastTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcastFacebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcastYoutube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheCollegeExperienceFollow The Hosts On Social MediaColby Dant - http://www.twitter.com/thecolbydPatty C - https://twitter.com/PattyC831NC Nick - https://twitter.com/NC__NicKWatch the Sports Gambling PodcastYouTube - https://www.sg.pn/YouTubeTwitch - https://www.sg.pn/TwitchRead & Discuss - Join the conversationWebsite - https://www.sportsgamblingpodcast.comSlack - https://sg.pn/slackReddit - https://www.sg.pn/reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The College Football Experience (@TCEonSGPN) on the Sports Gambling Podcast Network continues its 133 college football 2023 season preview series with the Jacksonville State Gamecocks. Pick Dundee aka (@TheColbyD) & Patty C (@PattyC831) break down the upcoming 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks offense, defense, special teams and key in on what they did in the transfer portal. Will Rich Rodriguez and the Jacksonville State Gamecocks walk right into the FBS and have winning seasons like Georgia Southern, Appalachian State & James Madison did? Plus, Michael Barker aka (@CFBcampustour) hops on the show to talk about his experiences to Burgess-Snow Field at JSU Stadium in Jacksonville, Alabama. Will the Rich Rodriguez offense take a huge step in year two of his system? Is Zion Webb the oldest quarterback in all of college football and does his experience give Jacksonville State a leg up on the rest of the Conference USA? Is the run game looking good with the return of Anwar Lewis, Ron Wiggins and the transfer portal addition of Malik Jackson from ULM? Should the wide receiving core be better in 2023 with the likes of Sterling Galban and PJ Wells returning and landing Jamarye Joiner from Arizona? Is tight end Sean Brown a name to lookout for in 2023? Does returning 4 of 5 on the offensive line mean JSU should be a tough out for every team they face in the FBS? Will the Jacksonville State defense take the next step? Will the defensive line be a force with the return of Chris Hardie, Jackson Luttrell and Jeff Marks? Is the linebacking core lacking experience? Can the secondary be the top unit on the defensive side of the ball since they bring back Jeremiah Harris, Fred Perry, Kolbi Fuqua and Jamari Jemison? We talk it all and more on this 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks season preview edition of The College Football Experience. ===================================================== Discuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discord SGPN Merch Store - https://sg.pn/store Download The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.app Check out SGPN.TV Support us by supporting our partners Circa Sports - Enter their contests for a chance to win your share of $14 Million - https://www.circasports.com/ Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://sg.pn/underdog Follow The College Experience & SGPN On Social Media Twitter - https://twitter.com/TCEonSGPN Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcast Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcast TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcast Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcast Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheCollegeExperience Follow The Hosts On Social Media Colby Dant - http://www.twitter.com/thecolbyd Patty C - https://twitter.com/PattyC831 NC Nick - https://twitter.com/NC__NicK Watch the Sports Gambling Podcast YouTube - https://www.sg.pn/YouTube Twitch - https://www.sg.pn/Twitch Read & Discuss - Join the conversation Website - https://www.sportsgamblingpodcast.com Slack - https://sg.pn/slack Reddit - https://www.sg.pn/reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The College Football Experience (@TCEonSGPN) on the Sports Gambling Podcast Network continues its 133 college football 2023 season preview series with the Jacksonville State Gamecocks. Pick Dundee aka (@TheColbyD) & Patty C (@PattyC831) break down the upcoming 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks offense, defense, special teams and key in on what they did in the transfer portal. Will Rich Rodriguez and the Jacksonville State Gamecocks walk right into the FBS and have winning seasons like Georgia Southern, Appalachian State & James Madison did? Plus, Michael Barker aka (@CFBcampustour) hops on the show to talk about his experiences to Burgess-Snow Field at JSU Stadium in Jacksonville, Alabama. Will the Rich Rodriguez offense take a huge step in year two of his system? Is Zion Webb the oldest quarterback in all of college football and does his experience give Jacksonville State a leg up on the rest of the Conference USA? Is the run game looking good with the return of Anwar Lewis, Ron Wiggins and the transfer portal addition of Malik Jackson from ULM? Should the wide receiving core be better in 2023 with the likes of Sterling Galban and PJ Wells returning and landing Jamarye Joiner from Arizona? Is tight end Sean Brown a name to lookout for in 2023? Does returning 4 of 5 on the offensive line mean JSU should be a tough out for every team they face in the FBS? Will the Jacksonville State defense take the next step? Will the defensive line be a force with the return of Chris Hardie, Jackson Luttrell and Jeff Marks? Is the linebacking core lacking experience? Can the secondary be the top unit on the defensive side of the ball since they bring back Jeremiah Harris, Fred Perry, Kolbi Fuqua and Jamari Jemison? We talk it all and more on this 2023 Jacksonville State Gamecocks season preview edition of The College Football Experience. ===================================================== Discuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discord SGPN Merch Store - https://sg.pn/store Download The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.app Check out SGPN.TV Support us by supporting our partners Circa Sports - Enter their contests for a chance to win your share of $14 Million - https://www.circasports.com/ Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://sg.pn/underdog Follow The College Experience & SGPN On Social Media Twitter - https://twitter.com/TCEonSGPN Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcast Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcast TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcast Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcast Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheCollegeExperience Follow The Hosts On Social Media Colby Dant - http://www.twitter.com/thecolbyd Patty C - https://twitter.com/PattyC831 NC Nick - https://twitter.com/NC__NicK Watch the Sports Gambling Podcast YouTube - https://www.sg.pn/YouTube Twitch - https://www.sg.pn/Twitch Read & Discuss - Join the conversation Website - https://www.sportsgamblingpodcast.com Slack - https://sg.pn/slack Reddit - https://www.sg.pn/reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sean Brown is a designer, musician and writer from Australia. 0:00:40 Sean's Australian-Filipino roots 0:08:33 spirituality vs. personal responsibility 0:14:02 current relationship with Magic 0:29:51 exploring a new career direction 0:40:01 "the progress is the point" 0:48:42 Sean's current career - the good, bad, ugly 0:56:52 James's current relationship with the Legacy format 1:00:38 on journaling and trying new things 1:05:08 Sean's music career and current artistic influences 1:11:23 today's music discovery process - is the mystique gone? 1:16:29 an alternative to "basic" content consumption - intentional curation 1:21:26 new AI technologies - ChatGPT and Midjourney - what does it mean for us? --- Show notes: humansofmagic.com/ Patreon: patreon.com/humansofmagic

Join Sean Brown and Vickie Black as they discuss the senior photography industry in preparation for Sean's 3 part training series starting Thursday April 6th.  The best part it is FREE!  Click this link to signup! hthttps://seanbrowneducation.teachable.com/a/aff_pjkxc195/external?affcode=534624_woy4mevh   We discuss the myth of to be a successful photographer you need to do weddings or all the genres, plus systems, and more!   --- Let's connect on social! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seniorstyleguide/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/seniorstyleguide Website: http://www.seniorstyleguide.com   --- THE PUSH CONFERENCE: Hosted by Senior Style Guide, The PUSH Conference is the photography education event of the year that you do not want to miss!! From a range of speakers from across the nation that are industry leaders in their field of expertise to hands on shooting, there is something for every photographer there in a small learning environment. It is three non-stop days of learning and you're going to be kicking yourself if you're not there this year! http://push.vickiesblack.com  

Sean Brown, Lacey Carroll and Vickie Black all discuss the photography industry and answer community questions in this episode! Marketing, Business and Why inperson education are important!   --- Let's connect on social! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seniorstyleguide/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/seniorstyleguide Website: http://www.seniorstyleguide.com   --- THE PUSH CONFERENCE: Hosted by Senior Style Guide, The PUSH Conference is the photography education event of the year that you do not want to miss!! From a range of speakers from across the nation that are industry leaders in their field of expertise to hands on shooting, there is something for every photographer there in a small learning environment. It is three non-stop days of learning and you're going to be kicking yourself if you're not there this year! http://push.vickiesblack.com/

In this episode, we share advice and insights for new CEOs about how they can make a strong start in the role. Sean Brown is joined by Carolyn Dewar, a senior partner in our San Francisco office who is the founder and co-leader of our CEO Excellence Practice. She is also a co-author of last year's NY Times bestseller, CEO Excellence: The Six Mindsets That Distinguish the Best Leaders from the Rest. Joining Carolyn today is Kurt Strovink, a senior partner in our New York office and co-leader of our global CEO initiative. He serves as a counselor to CEOs across industries and is a co-author, with Carolyn, of the Mckinsey.com article, Starting strong: Making your CEO transition a catalyst for renewal. Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com If you would like to receive alerts on our latest insights, you can sign up at McKinsey.com/scf See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

Ankur Agrawal joins Sean Brown to discuss how finance leaders can help promote talent development within their organizations. Ankur is a partner in our New York office and one of the leaders of our Healthcare Practice. In this episode, he talks with Sean about how CFOs have access to data, a cross-functional perspective, and an expanding role as value manager and strategy partner. They therefore have a critical role to play in ensuring that companies develop the skills, talent, mindsets, and behavior required for long-term success. Ankur and Sean also discuss the recent MIT Sloan CFO Summit and the emerging trends for CFOs to watch in 2023. We hope you enjoy this episode.  Connect with Ankur on LinkedIn.  Join our LinkedIn community of more than 87,000 members and follow us on Twitter at @McKStrategy.  Explore more Inside the Strategy Room episode transcripts on McKinsey.com  See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

Sean Brown, a creative designer with over 20 years of experience in digital, interactive, and web design; a thought leader in digital content and storytelling. Before joining Courageous, Sean was the creative/product director for Condé Nast's Style.com and Fairchild's Fashion Media Women's World Daily. During his tenure at Condé Nast under his design direction he helped them bridge the gap from print to digital with the development of their first native IOS app for Style.com in 2007, the first digital magazine edition for GQ in 2009 and the award-winning Epicurious cooking App, because of its success, it was selected by Steve Jobs to be one of a few, launch partners for the first iPad. Sean has received multiple awards for his work in UX UI and design including 2 Webby Awards. An Asme, and Condé Nast's first ever Innovator of the Year for his work with GQ.  Sean's work at Courageous has earned him an Edward R Murrow, Silver Cannes Lion, and the first Anthem Award Silver for Diversity, Equity&;Inclusion, to name a few. Sean has been on the forefront of the adoption of emerging technology and leading ways to integrate it into his creative work. He continues to grow his work with purpose driving experiential design and event based marketing.

One of the surest signs of a thriving enterprise is robust and consistent revenue growth. That has not been easy to accomplish over the past 15 years. Now, with a slowing global economy, rising inflation, and geopolitical uncertainty, growth may become more elusive still. To help business leaders buck these trends, our guests Chris Bradley and Rebecca Doherty conducted an in-depth study of the growth patterns and performance of the world's 5,000 largest public companies over the past 15 years. Their findings suggest ten rules that should guide organizations seeking to outgrow and outearn their peers.  Chris is a senior partner based in our Sydney office and a director of the McKinsey Global Institute. Rebecca leads our work on growth and innovation and is based in the Bay Area. They joined Sean Brown to discuss how business leaders can unlock the growth code.  Read Chris and Rebecca's article on McKinsey.com Join our LinkedIn community of more than 86,000 members.  Explore Inside the Strategy Room podcast transcripts episode transcripts on McKinsey.com                                  See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

In this episode we discuss strategy in an age of volatility. How are business leaders honing their edge in three critical areas–insights, commitment, and execution–to successfully navigate this period of uncertainty? How should executives manage the downside while aggressively pursuing the upside in times of crisis and disruption? To answer these questions, Sean Brown is joined by Michael Birshan and Ishaan Seth. Michael and Ishaan recently cowrote an article on this topic with Bob Sternfels, our global managing partner. Michael and Ishaan are the co-leaders of our Strategy and Corporate Finance Practice. Ishaan joins us from New York, and his client work has focused banking and securities and financial services. Michael joins us from London, and he works with clients in energy, natural resources, and industrials. He also serves on the McKinsey Global Institute Council, which advises on research on global economic, business, and technology trends.  What if the world's highest-performing CEOs held a master class to share the skills and practices that have driven their success over the years? Learn more in CEO Excellence: The Six Mindsets That Distinguish the Best Leaders from the Rest Unlock big strategy moves to beat the odds in business.  Learn more in Strategy Beyond the Hockey Stick. We invite you to join our LinkedIn community of more than 86,000 members. Join us to receive the latest insights on strategy and corporate finance.  You can also explore more Inside the Strategy Room podcast episode transcripts on McKinsey.com  See www.mckinsey.com/privacy-policy for privacy information

The financial services industry is ripe for innovation.Check The Lead-Lag Report on your favorite social networks.Twitter: https://twitter.com/leadlagreportYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/theleadlagreportFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/leadlagreportInstagram: https://instagram.com/leadlagreport                    Sign up for The Lead-Lag Report at www.leadlagreport.com and use promo code PODCAST30 for 2 weeks free and 30% off.                     Nothing on this channel should be considered as personalized financial advice or a solicitation to buy or sell any securities.                     The content in this program is for informational purposes only. You should not construe any information or other material as investment, financial, tax, or other advice. The views expressed by the participants are solely their own. A participant may have taken or recommended any investment position discussed, but may close such position or alter its recommendation at any time without notice. Nothing contained in this program constitutes a solicitation, recommendation, endorsement, or offer to buy or sell any securities or other financial instruments in any jurisdiction. Please consult your own investment or financial advisor for advice related to all investment decisions.See disclosures for The Lead-Lag Report here: The Lead-Lag Report (leadlagreport.com)Bless Our MessLife gets messy! Which is why we created Bless Our Mess. Join us as we tackle life issues.Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

INTRODUCTION: Ryan Murphy and Netflix have collaborated to bring us a shocking rendition of the life and times of notorious serial killer + cannibal, Jeffrey Dahmer (Evan Peters). Jeffrey Dahmer was responsible for the murder of 17, mostly black and brown, young men and young boys. Dahmer would drug them, kill them, harvest their body parts and eat them. This series documents Dahmer's internal struggle, as well as, how the police failed everyone despite multitudinous warning signs. Please join Demi Wylde, the host of the Hookup Horror Stories podcast and De'Vannon, the host of the Sex, Drugs and Jesus podcast as they go through a review of the entire series. THEMES FOUND WITHIN THIS SERIES (But not limited to):  ·      Racism·      Homophobia·      Nature Vs. Nurture·      Hookup Culture Dangers·      Cannibalism ·      The Humanity In Dahmer·      Implications Of Dahmer's Childhood·      Grossly Flawed Legal System·      Dahmer's Fan Base·      Dahmer's Copycats·      Forgiveness vs. Unforgiveness  CONNECT WITH DEMI: Linktree: https://linktr.ee/demitriwylde   CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comWebsite: https://www.DownUnderApparel.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonPinterest: https://www.pinterest.es/SexDrugsAndJesus/_saved/Email: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      OverviewBible (Jeffrey Kranz)o  https://overviewbible.como  https://www.youtube.com/c/OverviewBible ·      Hillsong: A Megachurch Exposed (Documentary)o  https://press.discoveryplus.com/lifestyle/discovery-announces-key-participants-featured-in-upcoming-expose-of-the-hillsong-church-controversy-hillsong-a-megachurch-exposed/ ·      Leaving Hillsong Podcast With Tanya Levino  https://leavinghillsong.podbean.com  ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net VETERAN'S SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS ·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org ·      What The World Needs Now (Dionne Warwick): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHAs9cdTqg INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: Dahmer[00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Ryan Murphy and Netflix have collaborated to bring us a shocking rendition of the life in times of notorious serial killer and cannibal. Jeffrey Dahmer, played by Evan Peters. Jeffrey Dahmer was responsible for the murder of 17. Mostly black and brown young men and boys. Dahmer would drug them, kill them, and harvest their body parts and eat them.This serious documents doer's internal struggle, as well as [00:01:00] how the police failed everyone, despite Multitudinous warning signs. Please joined Demitri Wylde. The host of the Hookup Horror Stories podcast and myself as we go through a review of this entire Netflix series.Demi: Welcome to Hookup Horror Stories. I'm W Wild. You're Resident Sexual deviant. De'Vannon: Hello, bitches. My name is Danna and I hosted Sex Drugs in Jesus podcast. How you doing? Demi: How you doing? It is spooky season. So we are here talking about the show that is taking the internet by storm. Ryan Murphy's latest Netflix show Monster, the Jeffrey Daher story De'Vannon: C.All the while I was watching that Lady Gaga song Monster Within my Head, That boy is a monster and bitch. Did he not give meaning to the [00:02:00] term Eat Your Heart Out. Demi: Eat Your Heart Out. Actually, I think secretly that song was partially about him. De'Vannon: Lady Gaga song. Yeah, yeah, Demi: yeah. I could see that. And behold, I think like she was using him as like a reference to, you know, talk about a guy that she was, you know, , who De'Vannon: was a monster to her.Freaked out by I was, I was playing back the lyrics in my head. I asked my girlfriend if she seen you run before. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I have so much to say about all of this. Demi: Yeah. We've got a lot to talk about. This is a very extra special kind of crossover episode that I've never done before and I think it's really fun to talk about, especially for Halloween De'Vannon: season.Yeah. So we're doing a threeway with Jeffrey Dahmer than I ate, basically. And couldn't get any more creepier than that, but we're gonna do it because we're open minded and super freaky and so, I was inspired by Dahmer the other day. Well, inspired by the, not by him, but by the documentary, you know?Mm-hmm. , [00:03:00] and and I was like, I reached out to Deme and I was like, Girl, we need to do a show about this motherfucker. Let's talk about this. Demi was like, Let's release it on Halloween. I was like, Okay, let's, let's, let's, let's do it at the witching hour then, . That's Demi: right. That's right. Well, yeah, it, it is a witching hour.So obviously we've got our candles lit here De'Vannon: before we begin and get too far into it. I have mine that I'm going to light now. This little T light here, I'm lighting it out of respect for the people who Jeffrey Daher murdered, but not just the people he murdered, but also anybody who's departed this plane of existence in a very torturous brutal way like that.And so I don't know. Hopefully it shed some peace on them in the afterlife. Agree. And so, [00:04:00]as we say, in, in in positive energy circles for the good of all, or not at all, Demi: for the good of all, or not at all. I like that. Perfect. Amazing. Well, if you guys are watching this on video, you'll obviously receive this on both of our channels.Check it out. Boom. Otherwise just sit back and listen to what we're gonna talk about. Spoiler alerts and trigger warnings are in full effect, so get De'Vannon: ready. Yeah, it, we, we put spilling all the tea until every goddamn damn thing. So in fact, you can probably listen to this episode instead of watching the series.You feel like it cause we going through this bitch. Demi: Exactly. Well, we've got a lot to talk about so let's just get a little refresher on who Jeffrey Daher was. Shall we? De'Vannon: We shall first. He was hot. He was hot. I will say . Was he? I don't think so. Well that's cuz you really like black. [00:05:00]Demi: I mean, I'm hoping to all but like not him.First of all, he is so like plain Jane looking first of all, and second of all the glasses, the demeanor, the hair, just, I'm not feeling it at all. . De'Vannon: Now I'm talking about the younger hyn. Now I'm not talking about the older prison or whatever the fuck I'm talking about, that I'm not about the, the young one.Demi: Well, yeah, either way he, he's playing with those striped shirts, the button up. Uhuh. Can't do it. not my type of white boy. We're not gonna make you. No. So anyways, let's talk about Jeffrey Dahmer. So, Jeffrey Lionel Daher was also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal or the Milwaukee monster. He was an American serial killer and convicted sex offender who committed the murder and dismemberment of 17 men and boys between 1978 and 1991.Many of his later murders involved necrophilia, cannibalism, and the [00:06:00] permanent preservation of body parts. Typically parts of the skeleton. Although he was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, sty of personality disorder and psychotic disorder, he was convicted of 15 and 16 or 15 of the 16 murders he had committed in Wisconsin, and he was sentenced to 15 terms of life imprisonment on February 17th, 1992.Daher was later sentenced to a 16 term of life imprisonment for an additional homicide. Committed it in Ohio in 1978. On November 28th, 1994, Daher was beaten to death by Christopher Scarr, a fellow inmate at the Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wisconsin. His victim's names are all Steven Mark Hicks, who is 18, Steven Walter Tomi, who was 25.James Edward d Tater, who is 14? Richard Guro, who is 22? Anthony Lee Sears is 24. Raymond Lamont Smith, who is 32. Ernest Marque, Miller 22. David Courtney Thomas, who is 22. Curtis Dorell [00:07:00] Strader. Who is 17? Err. Lindsay. Who is 19? Tony Anthony Hughes, who is 31 Conac in, Who is 14? Matt Cleveland. Turner, Who is 20?Jeremiah Benjamin Weinberger, who is 23. Oliver. Joseph Lacey, who is 24. And Joseph Arthur Bradoff, who is 25.How do we feel? De'Vannon: I was taking, taking and giving everyone a moment of silence to just like take like that set in for a moment. Yeah. How do I feel? It reminds me of, of all the vigils we see on TV after mass school shootings and stuff like that. Yeah. You know, it's like when all the, all the, all the dead coming together.I'm just seeing like, you know, all the titty bears and the flowers and the candles on the ground. That, that's the imagery I'm getting. How about you? Demi: It's a lot to take in. I, I couldn't watch the show. In normally, like, I like to binge something that's not [00:08:00] one of those bingeable shows to me. That first episode had me just like, fully, like on edge, like, and I love horror.I love true crime. I don't get squeamish a whole lot. I was very squeamish by this. It was very visceral in my opinion. I just, I was like, Oh my God, what the fuck is happening? You know? Seeing these characters play out before he, before us, the actual murders themselves being portrayed in such a way, especially by Ryan Murphy about it just made everything so much more real.You know? Cause I've already known the story. I've already known what happened, but like, just seeing it played out was like, Holy shit. Like this is a little too much at times. It's De'Vannon: all great to have a a, a story, but it's all about how you tell it baby. And so let us give credit to those who told it. Now, Evan Peters is the star of this.And then like he said, like, like, like to me, said Ryan Murphy wrote it. And then I saw the name Ian Brennan come up as a lot of the writing. There were other people who wrote it too, but [00:09:00]mainly Ian Brennan. I'm partial to Ian Brennan cuz my boyfriend's name is Ian . So I'm here for all the Ian's of the world.And Demi's, one of Demi's favorite persons, Niecy Naja was in there giving life, serving face, , . Demi: She played such a good role, and I know that Glenda was, was a real person, but that character that she played and the stuff that she experienced was actually experienced by a lot of the other people that were like in the building or other people that had interactions.So she was kind of an amalgamation of like a bunch of people. I actually remember specifically the, the instance where the, the 14 year old where he actually, you know, he drilled the head and put acid in there and he was like, you know, comatose almost, but like still, he got up and he, and he ran. And so Glenda was like, and then I think another couple people were outside and they found the boy and then the police.Sent [00:10:00] them back in with, with Daher. It was like, Oh my God, what the hell is happening here? But she was fully giving me life the entire time especially in those moments where she really like cared to, but also that she wasn't heard. You know? She like, it was so, Oh my, I can't even like verbalize it. It was De'Vannon: messed up.Oh my darling, I will do my part to guide you through this emotional journey you were about to take , so the, I had two questions for you. Yeah. Before we get into the episode breakdowns, I just wanted to know what was the most heartbreaking part for you? Was it the scene you just described or with is something d.Demi: I mean, that one was obviously a heartbreaking, cuz I know how all of 'em really heartbreaking cuz I knew how they all ended. What was the, the, the def the deaf guy? I, I'm gonna Tony Hughes, Was that his name? De'Vannon: Oh God. He went through so many men. Honey, I couldn't keep up with the names. I know. Demi: I think that was, [00:11:00] I think that was his name.I could be wrong. I apologize if I am, but I'm really bad with names anyways. But yeah, the, the deaf boy he, that one was the most heartbreaking cause I knew how it played out and it was just so sad to see, like, it was hard for me to like peel away the kinda like monster mentality versus like kind of just like the need to connect with someone, Which I think a lot of people who are like dah.Feel, So I don't wanna like sympathize with a killer, you know? But I can understand how a person just wants to be connected to another person. And I think that was the closest thing that he had was with, was with Tony. And so far from the show, I'm not sure about real life. But you know, in the show it played out that way, that they actually had dates and they actually had, you know, time spent together and they spent the night together and , it was just so heartbreaking, you know?[00:12:00] Mm-hmm. . Oh, De'Vannon: well I feel for you darling. I feel for you that, that that part was super heartbreaking. And what stood out to me was that that's the deaf guy was the one who was trying to keep a classy, He actually didn't have his legs open the moment he met Jeffrey, and he was the one I know told him no, and I thought, I wonder if, because Jeffrey didn't kill him.He thought about it. He had the drugs to put it in his drink. Mm-hmm. and he put it back up. So this is, this is when we see Jeffrey trying to fight that monster within. And I'm thinking the deaf guys is somebody who's actually telling him no. Their little note he wrote said, You have to earn me cuz he didn't talk.So he told Jeffrey, You have to earn me. And this evoked a different response from Jeffrey. Yeah. You know, we see this in men, you know, quite often if you know, if, if, if, if you let them fuck you tonight they will. But if not, you know, they may just treat you with respect instead. And so, Demi: yeah, I mean that was what was most [00:13:00] heartbreaking for me was like that, that story with him.We all know how it ended clearly, but I'm not sure if they depicted this exactly, but Several of, of his victims. He actually like, kept around, like laid around while after he killed him. So like, he, they were in his apartment for like three days or whatever. Tony, he kept around for a while before he decided to get rid of him.It is just so strange, like seeing these like, kind of like, I don't want to humanize him, but like, it's just moments of like, Oh my God. Like, I kind of feel bad. I, this, this kid had, he was doomed from the beginning. He was doomed from the beginning. His mom was crazy. His dad taught him how to do this shitDe'Vannon: I, I think kind of like a part of the point of [00:14:00] this series was to bring out his humanity, because everybody knows. You know, he's the crazy bitch who killed all these people. Mm-hmm. , but the sensitive side with his history and background to my knowledge, had never been told before. And so I'm okay with looking at a person and seeing both the evil and the good in them.Right. And so, and I think that this series did a great job with that. The second question I had for you was, what, what, And the answer might be the same, but, you know, what was the most shocking part for you? Like something that you just not see coming, like, Oh bitch. Demi: Well, I don't think, I didn't see anything coming.Okay. I think the most shocking, but also not exactly I, I knew this was gonna happen anyways, was the fact that like the police that just were completely negligent in, in taking this seriously, [00:15:00]just. Got off on it, you know, it ju it was just so fucked. And I think that was what made me so angry at the very end was just like, Oh my God.Like here is this, this predator who is going after, you know, marginalized people. And whether intentionally or not, he, he was, he was doing it that these police officers just didn't want to get involved. You know, Even though Linda was calling them all the time, seeing their weird smells or there's body, you know, I, it's just mind boggling how, how messed up that shit is and how real it is.Cause it happens to this day still. De'Vannon: Right. What, what shocked me the most was the role that his parents played in it. His mom being on all the pills and the medication, which clearly scrambled his brain chemistry and his dad. Harboring the same sort of desires, but acting him out with animals and then teaching his son how to do the same thing.That's something [00:16:00] I never saw coming. I was shocked about that. Demi: Yeah. I mean, that part, the fact that his, at the very end they were talking about keeping his brain mm-hmm. to study it, which I think would've been really great to do just for science concur. And then his dad was just like, No, we just gotta, We're done with it.We gotta De'Vannon: go. He didn't have the balls, He didn't really have a whole lot of nuts throughout the whole thing. Yeah, no, he had like a moment of nu tackiness and then he just, he just didn't wanna face the truth or whatever those results would've rendered . Good deal. Right. Demi: I think the most interesting part of it was like, it, it raised in my, in my mind the whole concept of nature versus nurture, as we know as gay people, like how much of us growing up gay, is it nature versus nurture?How much of it growing up as a, as a homicidal maniac, [00:17:00] cannibal, , how much of that is nature versus nurture? You know, you know, his mom was, was obviously was like nature right there, you know, he, that was like biological and then his dad kind of nurtured this part of him too. So like, it kind of had both ends of the spectrum.You know, It's, it's so interesting. De'Vannon: But I also wanna point out that of these 17 young men that were murdered, the majority of them were black and brown individuals. Correct? This was happening during, like, the middle of the last century, so there's a lot of racism, homophobia going on, you know, and that's, that's a theme throughout the end.I love Jackson Jackson's Tri Jesse, Reverend Jackson. Jackson is Triton appearance. Towards the end. Mm-hmm. as you mentioned though, this sort of thing does still happen today. And, and, and if I could like, make a hashtag, like and give respect to your podcast, hook up horror stories, I would say this show pretty much demonstrates the old hashtag ultimate of [00:18:00] horror story.Demi: I agree. . This is the ultimate, this is the thing that we've all been more warned about in like hookup cultures. Like, you know, don't go out on a date with anybody. You not the internet, otherwise you'll fucking be murdered. You know, or gotten your heart eating out. Literally the ultimate hookup horror story.De'Vannon: Yeah. So we're not joking in this, in this series. Y'all, Jeffrey liked to cut the boys up. I'm pretty sure he sauteed a liver, a human liver, you know, and, and he ate it like it was a goddamn Morton Steakhouse six, you know, five star restaurant. I mean, I guess, I mean, I'm laughing, I'm not laughing at it, but I don't have any other emotions to, to, I'm laughing at the how hysterical this whole thing is.Demi: I mean, if we don't laugh, we'd cry because it's so fucked up in [00:19:00] grotesque. But I think also talking about it openly and also discussing how we feel about it and using humor as a way to kind of cope. That's something I'm very familiar with. I'm, I make really, I have a very dark, twisted sense of humor. So this is definitely something I do on a regular basis.So, no, this is a safe space. I think. Anybody who's listening, I hope you guys feel the same way. This is a safe space. I think that , in addition to like the, in addition to all the, you know, horrible dismemberments and the cannibalism and keeping body parts in its fridge and freezer and stuff I think the most, one of the most crazy things about it was like he drilled their heads and then put acid in their brain in order to make living zombies.That was like his goal, because he didn't want people to leave him. He didn't want people to, like, he wanted people to be subservient and to be like, you know, [00:20:00] it's, it's so fucked up. But also it's kind of like, Oh God, you just wanted connection. You know?De'Vannon: I think that stemmed from his mother and his dad always leaving him. Yeah. Cause in the first like episodes we see his mom just got his little brother and screeched off because his mom and dad had a terrible, chaotic relationship. So people can get their heads fucked up just from the parents not getting along and shit like that.Right. This experience in my, in my own household. And that's why that was, he didn't want to be left. He didn't understand. Okay. They gotta go to work. They got something else to do. He wasn't trying to hear none of that. Oh, he heard he just wanted them to stay. He wanted them to stay, You know? But I mean, why do, when we go around and we do a whole lot of hooking up, then I think it's for the same reason, at least for me, you know, looking back when I was in and out of a different bed every night, you know, I just didn't [00:21:00] wanna be alone when I was a drug dealer, you know?And I would just give people narcotics or whatever. Just, I just didn't fucking wanna be by myself. Right. So how do we fix that? Okay. Demi: Yeah. I have no idea. , . I think it's, it's maybe being comfortable being alone has, has part to do with it. Being comfortable with being, but also not like being so alone that you go crazy.You know, reaching out to people when you need to and talking to friends, people who you trust, who are having people you trust in order to kind of alleviate some of that loneliness and, and to bring other perspectives into, into being. I wanted to bring out another serial killer that I, I found a lot of like kind of connection to Daher.And his name was Dennis Ni. He was a guy in the UK who also a gay serial killer. He didn't eat the body parts, but he did keep body parts around. [00:22:00] And his first kill was a young man. He met at a bar, brought him home, ended up just drinking and talking all night, having a great time sleeping together.I don't think they had sex, but they, they slept at the same bed, they cuddled, whatever. The next morning Dennis got up and he decided that he didn't want this boy to leave, like they all do. And he ended up strangling him while he was in bed. It's kind of that same motive where it was kind of like, you know, you just want someone to be around.I and then he also keeping of the body parts has something to do with that too. Yes. There's some sort of like trophy involved, but also kind of like more like, I have this memento of this person, you know, we still go connected to them. Yeah. So still, still still feel connected to them. Exactly. The only way Dennis Nelson got caught was just this kind of gross, but he, after a few years of like doing this and stuff and keeping body parts around the house [00:23:00] he decided to start getting rid of the stuff and he started putting it down the drainAnd anyone who's been the UK knows that plumbing in the UK sucks. And so he started putting body parts down the drain and. People in the building started finding brown water coming up and they were like drinking it and all this stuff, and they, they finally called, you know, the management, whatever. They found out that there's like these horrible body parts going up and they all tracked it back to Dennis.That's how we got caught. But I felt a lot of like kind of connection between Daher and ni. Like it was very kind like these guys had like the similar mos. They still had kind, were like fucked up in the head from the very beginning. There's still still a very troubling background too. It's just a pretty wild, both of these people had similar backgrounds and they wound up doing the same kind of thing.Was, De'Vannon: was this UK for Well, I'm, I'm, to some extent I'm pleased that eating people was a touch too far for him. He [00:24:00] just could not. Was he before Daher? During or after? Demi: Wondering 82. De'Vannon: Okay. I think Daher hit the news in like in the nineties. Mm-hmm. , they were doing currently. Demi: Okay. So this is 10 years before Daher, but actually around the same time. Cause I think Dahmer got started in 78, so Yeah. They were around the same time. De'Vannon: My lord Jesus. So, so I would wanted to issue like a word of warning, like in terms of like the, the danger of hooking up.Mm-hmm. . I just wanna like remind people that bad things do happen to people when they go behind closed doors with strangers. I get as really easy to go online and meet a fool and run off with them. I've done it and I think the sweet baby Jesus, that nothing bad ever happened, but I'm, I'm not arrogant to say that it, that it's not like it could have, It's not like I practiced discretion.I didn't tell anyone where I was going. [00:25:00] I didn't verify the person's name. I didn't verify that it was even their home that I was in. None of those things, I just trusted a stranger. . When I know like whenever people have like bad shit happen to them on hookups, usually they don't run around and tell it.Cuz everybody wants to make it seem like they have a super glorious sex life. Right. And what'll happen is when you're on these hookup apps, like that person who you always see in that square, suddenly you just won't see them anymore. Mm-hmm , that's kind of how that goes. So I'm just reminding y'all be careful.Cause in this show, some of the guys would look at a drink cuz Jeffrey would put used to put the fucking dope in the drink and they'd look at it and be like, this looks funny. And then they would just drink it anyway. Demi: Right. . So that also goes with just, just the naivete. People not knowing, people not thinking, you know, or just, eh, whatever, let's have fun, you know, whatever the case may be.Always . So I have, I have a friend who anytime that he goes somewhere, he always texts me to tell me where he is going. [00:26:00] I think it's great. It's wonderful to have a person that you, a little slot friend that you could just be like, Hey, I'm going to X this address , but you don't here, but by tomorrow I'm dead.You know, I got , I got bomber. So like, it, it's, it's very important to have those friends that you can talk to about this kind of stuff. And I think the whole purpose of like the stuff, what we do in our podcast and, and, and talking about this stuff openly and honestly, that this stuff does happen quite regularly to everyone and it is not doing anybody any good to just like, leave the stuff inside and to kind of like release that shame in a way to talk about it openly.To talk about, hey, this, here's how we can avoid this stuff. You know, what to look out for. You know, It's the same thing with, it's the same thing with true crime. It's like you, you. Wanna know more about what's happening to these people, because that helps us later on to like, kind of like be a little metos and be like, You know what, I, I don't, I know what's going on here.I need to [00:27:00] leave, You know, , De'Vannon: oh that makes me think of an Angela Langs very, who recently died rest in peace girl. She gave us murder she wrote, and the Venturian candidate , among Demi: other things, A little story by Angela Lansbury. I used to watch Bed ro, bed knobs and broomsticks when I was growing up, of course.But my grandma used to have a a bed, but in the room that I slept with that looked exactly like the bed from beds and broomstick. So every time I slept on that bed, I always felt like I was like riding through wherever with insulin landsbury, . De'Vannon: Well, you know what? She was a gay icon before. I realized that this such thing existed.Lame. I love the hair. I love the hair, the twist that she did. So, so you mentioned true crime. I know, I know you're considering this, like your true crime breakout, [00:28:00] so to speak. from this is, this is her breakout interview. So from the true crime aspect, like what would you like to say? What would you like to bring up? Like what's true crime to you? I mean, the whole damn thing is, but like, what, what do you, what do you wanna pick apart from it?Demi: Honestly, like I, I love true crime and I feel like the more we learn about this kind of darker aspect of humanity, the more we kind of. Bring this stuff back into light to talk about it openly, to share stories. And I, I think that has a lot to do with, like, I used to really suck at history in high school , but true crime has like kind of brought me more in line with, like, understanding history more.And I think the more that we understand history, the more we can we plan for the future. Mm-hmm. . So I think that is really kind of like coming full circle for me in a way to kinda like understand this from like that perspective, but also like to understand how, [00:29:00] how victims work and how like the police are so fucked up and, and how humans can just not always get things right.You know, we're, we're, we're full of problems, we're full of issues. We all make, we all make mistakes. We all make shit an shit decisions, you know, De'Vannon: we do. And sometimes it's because we. Or we are full of ourselves. You know, we get blindsided by our own desires, ambitions, and stuff like that. And think a little less about the other person than probably we.I don't like to use the word should very often, but in this case I'll say than we should I call for more compassion towards other people in this earth. I just wanna say that I'm super upset and mad and like bitter in my soul that I had [00:30:00] to wait till episode two for Evan Peters to take his fucking clothes off.I'm getting spoiled by American Horror stories. Like his s is always on his like literal bare s is always on the screen, but we got a little, almost kind of slight side dick or top. Two on this one. I was just saying girling, like,Demi: so you'd be, you'd be sending dahmer like letters in the mail, wouldn't you? De'Vannon: in exchange for nudes. Fuck it. Demi: Think what I got most excited for was Sean Brown, who was playing Tracy Edwards, who's the guy in the first episode who, who did the little sexy dance in order to escape from daher. I think that was brilliant.I think that was like a fantastic dramatization of what might have happened. I'm not sure if that actually happened, but holy shit. That was like in insane. That was, that was an [00:31:00] insane escape. I'm so happy that he got out and then he finally got caught. Props to Sean Brown for playing that He is completely me worthy.De'Vannon: they're coming. Oh, I, I made one. Did you see it? ? Yeah. . So, so Sean, if you're listening, you know, Demi's address is available and you, I, he is in Los Angeles, a, you know, Demi's in Los Angeles. So I think you should go do that dance for him. And so I love how, So episode one actually shows, like, like to me is saying, you know, this character escaping, running down the street, getting the police coming back, and Jeff Dahmers actually getting arrested.Mm-hmm. . And so the series actually kind of, it's like flash backy and then the trial is kind of precipitating and starting to happen throughout. And I thought that was very nicely done, right? [00:32:00] So I wanna talk about his parents. I wanna talk about his parents. I ain't hit a judge because, you know, I done done all kind of drugs.I never was a pill popper. I just sold it. No judgment though. So this, so y'all, when when, when Jeffrey's mom was pregnant with him, she was on like, I can't remember, 26, 26 pills a day. Okay. You know, then, you know, so there's speculation that perhaps that fucked him up because, you know, they never thought about it before.Because we hear about crack babies. I don't mean that derogatory, but that's the term people will recognize. Or people, you know, mother's drinking. You know, you can't buy a bottle of wine back of the label for whatever fucking reason in this country. We have to tell, we have to put it in print. If you're pregnant, you shouldn't have this bottle of wine bitch.And so like, but it never occurred to me, you know, somebody getting a legal prescription from their doctors could do the same sort of [00:33:00] damage with pills. Mm-hmm. . So that was like super eye opening for me. Demi: And it was also the, it was like the sixties. So I mean, it was a completely different time for pharmaceuticals.Like people were just like, Yeah, take this methadone, take this fucking shit, take whatever antipsychotic that, you know, cuz who cares? Cause we're all just making money off of it anyways. We're still to this day is same problem. We're just prescribing opiates to people that don't really need it because we're making money doing it.So it's the same kind of kind of thing the pharmaceutical company is like, is or the pharmaceutical biz is fucked up. But it just goes to show that like, yes, like this stuff does in a large quantity is due serious damage to us, to our bodies and to the bodies that might be living inside of us. It's, it's insane, but it was a different time.It was like the sixties, completely different time. So you [00:34:00] had a, They still thought, they still thought, they still thought smoking was healthy back then. You know, , De'Vannon: I somehow feel like this country hasn't come that long of a way sometimes we seem so damn primitive with the way we treat each other and the, some of the things people say and do.So this, you know, so we had this mom with the pills, his dad harbored desires, you know, in the, in the show with his dad confessed towards the end. You know what? I really wanted to murder people and I would imagine having done it, but I didn't say anything. And basically the two of them helped to produce this serial killer.And I was thinking, you know, people don't want, you know, queer folk to have kids and everything because they're afraid we're gonna ruin them and turn them in and ruin the moral fabric. But you know, we just got, you know, really our rights to really have a family really not that long ago. So the world's serial killers and murders and, you know, all of these notorious people came from heterosexual unions.I just really wanted to point that out.[00:35:00]Demi: right? That's not an argument. Cause obviously like people procreate and so heterosexuals procreate. Obviously you guys are also doing your part to create people of Daher status. You know, it's not, the argument is invalid, you know, when it comes De'Vannon: to that. Right? So I love all the, you know, the things like that, that this series brought out.You mentioned several times how shitty the cops were. Mm-hmm. , Let's get more granular with that. Now, Jeffrey was already convicted sex offender on parole. Right. I think he murdered the damn 14 year old. Mm-hmm. . But he was a brother. Yeah. Right. And so, so Niecy, Nash's character, Linda believe it was, was complaining.But, you know, she's black. Mm-hmm. , it's, you know, gay things happening. So the cops are showing up like, so this is a boyfriend, boyfriend thing, Right. We don't wanna Demi: get involved. There's De'Vannon: aids, you know. Yeah. We might catch it from like, walking in your [00:36:00] apartment and so and so and so. So, no, they took a very hands off approach to this.Jeffrey was white, N's character was black, and then the little boy was Asian. And so they, they just, they just believed the white boy. And so and then Niecy, you know, just, just kept calling and calling and calling, you know, at some point N'S character. She, she just was like, I, you know, I'm, I'm not gonna say what, what's your favorite line that, that N's character said?Demi: I'll eat it later.when Daher comes into her apartment, which I don't know why the fuck she would let him into her apartment. He brought a sandwich into the apartment with him and he gives it to her and he tells her Eat it. And she goes, I'm not eating that . And he goes, Eat it. And she goes, I'll eat it later. . [00:37:00]That was just so brilliant and just like so well done.It's so like powerful. Just like go right back at him with that aggression. Like, Oh my God, that was so great. De'Vannon: You know? Yeah. She didn't back down. She told him, I'm not afraid of you. Mm-hmm. , she had fear cuz the moment he left her apartment and closed the Doche gas and she broke down. But So Niecy nasty, Niecy nasty character.Lives right next door to Daher and Dahmers putting shit in people's food. To drug them. And so he had made a sandwich probably out of people in dope. I'm sure it was people Yeah, exactly. And thought she was going to eat it, and so and so. No, she wasn't having any of that. And I thought she was, I thought she, I thought her character was like probably the strongest next to, you know, to the reverend.I thought her character was probably the strongest, you know? Yeah. You know, like in, in internally. Yeah. Yeah. So my favorite line from her is [00:38:00] when at some point she told the cops, you know, she's like, Y'all came, but it's too late now. Demi: It's too De'Vannon: late. You got 17 dead people. I called y'all how many times . She, she read those cops for absolute bills.Yeah. But the fucked up part, the cops were only suspended from duty with pay. The two cops that were on that circuit, on that beat, you know, handling this, they were only suspended. With pay. And then they got reinstated and then they gave them rewards for like top of the fucking year. Demi: I know. And I, I did, I did write down one of their lines that they said when they were talking to their police chief, they sold their police Chief, You can't fire us.Trust me, we will be here long after you. Which is just like, it's so threatening to say that to your boss, first of all. And so just gross, Just gross humanity. And just that, that abuse of power is so insane. And I, it's [00:39:00] still like that police could not be held accountable, period. There's nothing to hold them accountable.De'Vannon: I feel like there's. Accountability is starting to trickle up. But what, what he was, what those two cops told him was true. Whatever the shit hits the fan, it's the police chief or somebody in a high position to go right. And they, they're not wrong about that. And they went, ran into the police union and, you know, hid behind them.I'm so, I had applied to become a cop with the Houston Police Department at one point before, became a drug dealer. I am, yeah. I'm so happy I became a drug dealer instead. Because there is more honor and credibility in pushing dope in all kinds of methamphetamine and narcotics. Than being a fucking police officer.Demi: I agree. , there's these so there's and Canadian native people there's a, a story that I, I'm gonna butcher this completely, but [00:40:00] there was these stories that were called like like Midnight, Midnight Drive or something like that. I'm gonna get that wrong. But anyways, these police officers would, would take up these, these Canadian native people, drive them out into like the middle of nowhere, and then have them like, take off their shoes and everything and like, have them walk back into town and they would never find the bodies and stuff.And they were these, you know, it, it, it's crazy. People didn't find out that they were doing this to, to these native people for years. When they finally did, nobody was held accountable, really. Like the police chief was the one that, that kind of like left. And even the Wikipedia page was changed from someone in the police department.They that. And it's like no one, you can pinpoint which desk it came from. Why did you not even think to do that? You know, they just didn't want to. There's nothing to like keep that because it would make them look bad essentially. And that's, [00:41:00] it sucks. It's a reality of the situation. De'Vannon: But whatever it's worth, I, I, from, from my spirituality, I believe that God is not mocked in whatever they, so they will reap as a human.I don't believe is for me to see this necessarily play out. I'm not j I'm not, and I'm just saying like, that's the piece that I make with it, right? That's my own version of that. And so I hope other people don't become bitter, you know, looking at, you know, police to think police do, and because the bitterness isn't going to help you.You know, it's very easy to watch a series like this or to turn on the news today. And it doesn't get angry. The anger is so valid, but I just hope people don't internalize it, you know? So I just wanna be Demi: proactive, you know, volunteer, you know, be, be active in, you know, [00:42:00] protesting you know, be, be vigilant and, you know, really call out these things when you see it.It's, it's, it's shocking. It's, it's crazy, but at the same time, it's not all that surprising to see that, Yeah, this stuff still happens.De'Vannon: I don't know if I, Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I should. Okay. I guess I will, since I said it that much. So, , so when, so there's a scene in here where Jeffrey, Jeffrey has a thing for mannequins and everything like that.Oh God. And so he goes into the store, kinda buys something, sneaks into the dressing room. And hangs out once they close. And then once the security guard leaves and they turn the lights off, he dashes out of the dressing room, Nas the mannequin, and of course is a nice chisel, male mannequin, all the ad right.Pulled everything going on. I have to confess, I've, you know, notice the, [00:43:00] the, the honks of the mannequins in the window. You know, that , that's why they make 'em that way. But I never was gonna take one home. So Jeffrey liked to get these mannequins and and. While I'm watching this, I'm having flashbacks from like Pose, which have absolutely nothing to do with this.Pose was super great. Also a whole nother, but again, another Ryan Murphy show, , another Ryan Murphy show, and also the first fucking episode of Pose, Season one, episode one. When a lecture in the House of Abundance go into the store, the Macy's or whatever they stay in for. Clothes hide everywhere. Come. They undressed the mannequin.Oh yeah. Clothes. They take the clothes and leave the mannequins. But I was, I don't know, it just reminded me of that. I was so happy to see one of those characters from Pose appear later on in the, in the series though, I think, I don't know, maybe his name was Danny and Pose one of the dancer guys. He was the dark chocolate one.Oh, right, right. Dos . [00:44:00]Demi: So, I mean, Ryan Murphy does like to work with the same actors, and I, that's, I think that's why he's taking a liking to Evan Peters, because Evan Peters is a great actor and he did such an amazing job with, with this role. As far as the mannequin goes, I have a confession. De'Vannon: No mannequin is safe.No mannequin is safe. Demi: Not mannequin. No, but I was, I was the only child. I, I didn't really have, I was, I was, you know, a little older than some of the kids on the block. So I was a little lonely at times. I kind of wished I had a brother or a friend around and I didn't really have one. I, I did occasionally build a friend.Out of pillows and my own clothes, and keep 'em on my De'Vannon: bed.Demi: It's a very weird thing that I did as a kid. My mom never batted an eye at this though. , It was very strange. I would give them [00:45:00] names. I would just, you know, this was just like, this is my friend that I've built. And so I kind of related to Daher in that, in that aspect of just like, Oh my God, this is so weird to keep this, this thing I, this, this form in my bed.You know? I never told that to another person, by the way. So everybody knows all this weird secret about De'Vannon: me, . Okay. I can confess something that I did, and I don't judge you for that, but you saying that reminds me of when I was in the Air Force and I left home when I was 17 and I could not relate with people coming from the country, coming from the Pentecostal background and, and I didn't know how to make friends and I didn't know.I got, I had this, I got this orange monkey. He was like a, a bright orange, You might call him like a curious Georgie thing, but he was like neon orange. And I would take him places with me, and now I'm 17, 18, you know, I have a car. I'm not really grown, but I'm older. And I, I would strap him into the front seat and put like [00:46:00] on him and drive him around because I couldn't find a fucking friend.You know, there was no, there was no grinder, there was none of that. You couldn't go online and find a friend. You had to go out and physically meet people. And I was 17. I wasn't old enough to go to any bars or anything. I was fucked, you know? And I wasn't in college, I was in, I was in a grown man's world in the military.I do not recommend going to the military at 17. So, no. Yeah, we built person. I went to toys us and bought mine. Fuck it. You know, , we all had our mixture of friends. Yeah. Demi: And, and you know, it's, It's not all that shocking, you know, it's, it is shocking in the context of like Daher, but at the same time, it's not all that shocking for people to just be lonely.De'Vannon: Right. And, and he was lonely. Lone did, Jeffrey was lonely cuz his parents not only walked away from him, but they didn't really teach him, you know they didn't really [00:47:00] teach him. Like, I don't feel like my parents taught me about sex, about life. You know, Jeffrey did not understand what it meant to be a homosexual.You know, when cops would show up, he would be like, we're doing gay things, you know porn, you know, to him it's like something, Homosexuality is something that you do. It's an action rather than who you are. Right? So, So, you know, the, he was he in that, in that aspect, I'll say the poor thing was misguided.I feel like so many of us gays are, you know, I wish someone would say, Hey, here's how you be in this world. You know,I wanna talk about post traumatic stress of disorder, . Okay. Like you said, gal NE's character was, is, was, is an alga amalgamation check of of all the people in the building. So by the end of the series, y'all the [00:48:00] people in this building where this boy then chopped up and cooked and filet and sauteed.These people just cannot. Okay? They have to go sleep downstairs in the hall because everybody's having nightmares. And flashbacks thinking, Jeffrey's coming for them, hearing the same sounds and shit. This is just like a veteran coming back from war. Right. Okay. People who barely escaped from him are having flashbacks.These people's families are getting harassed by the fucking police and shit. What? What? The PTSD as something that shocked me and I had never considered before. Demi: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the victims aren't the only victims in this. It's the people that actually were in that building. It's the people who had to find the bodies who, you know, the people who actually working the crime scene and stuff.The people who were just the neighbors, you know, the people who lived in that, in that neighborhood. Those are all victims. Those are people that knew all this stuff was happening. [00:49:00] I think what the city Des decided was the right thing to do was just to knock down the building completely and erase it, which I think is the wrong thing to do.And I think Glenda was doing the right thing by fighting for this park in this plaque to commemorate the names of the victims of people. And I think that's a really important thing. And at the very end of the show you, you realize that it's still not there. So I think it's really, I think it'll bring up an interesting commentary to this, especially just because of this year and the kind of last couple years that we've been having in order to really do some good in this world, is to bring light onto things that were once dark, rather than just De'Vannon: make them disappear.That's like whitewashing it in a way. Like, you know, you know, I love, I love me, some white dick and all of that, but. White people can do things like try to just make problems disappear and shit. Mm-hmm. like what we see demonstrating here, [00:50:00] because historically white people have held at the power, you know, in this country, they've had the power to do it.Control the narrative, rewrite history, the where the fuck you wanna do, bad shit happen over there. We'll call it Murder House from American Horror Story couldn't get any worse. You know, bad shit happened. We'll just tear it down and we'll just act alike, you know, we'll just move on now. But like, like, like the reverend Jesse Jesse Jackson said in there, you know, we're not gonna let you just give us peaceful words like healing and hope, and everything's gonna be okay, which is another way of saying, let's just forget about it.Right? Demi: That's not how you deal with, with trauma. , you know, actually processing those emotions learning to stand in it and not be affected by it. Learning how to kind of move within it rather than just forget about it. Cuz as we all know, and we just pushed into the back of our minds, they always have a nice, lovely way of coming right back up into weird, do weird things to our psyche, [00:51:00] you know?So yeah, all those people, I'm sure I, I, I hope have gotten help through the years. But I still think that there still needs more to be done culturally, especially when it comes to like, people who are victims, who are horrible victims such as this. De'Vannon: And like, and, and you mentioned, I mean, all traumas like that.I mean, you said it best. I'm just gonna say trauma goes in, is he has to come back out. It won't just dissipate. And you mentioned earlier about, you know, you asked me like, would I be one of the ones writing letters to, to Jeff in the mail since I think he has a nice ass and d print. So in the series, y'all, this, this part grossed me out and I hope I was gross top in the nonjudgmental way because I don't like to judge anyone for anything.Okay. Jeff had a, had a, had, has a following. They started making Halloween costumes and shit. There was a comic, his [00:52:00] dad wrote a book. People started writing him letter, sending him money. It's kind of Trumpy . Demi: Oh. He was trying to profit off of what happened and like, being the father of the killer, you know, I think that's so messed up.And I think it was right for the victims, for the families of the victims to pursue that in court. And did, did they win? I, I believe they did Eventually. They, they want, they lost the first time, but they did. And yeah, that money should go to the victims. It should not go to the fucking dude. Like dad.That's insane. Like, my god, De'Vannon: not only, no, but hell nah. I couldn't believe he had the balls to do that. Like, I could have seen if he wrote it for cathartic healing reasons, maybe shared it with the family or whoever Demi: requested Yeah. Set up for like non-profit or something. Like just, Yeah, like, just don't, That's it's so selfish and it's very Trumpy for sure.De'Vannon: Yeah. They're in their [00:53:00] toasting margaritas, you know, and shit over the, over the book deal , you know, everything like that with no concern for people. So then Jeff had copycats people, Sorry, do mimic him and everything like that. And it. Makes me very concerned for the, for the mental state of the world.Because as old as this crime is, it's not like mental health. I don't feel like it's improved. Right. Treatment has gotten better, but people are still like, not all there . Right. Not as good as they could be. Demi: Completely. Do we have any final De'Vannon: thoughts? I do. I have, I, the, the last two things that I would like to bring up was the way the whole unforgiveness, bitterness thing that, that went from DC Nas character.Mm-hmm. , the guy who murdered him in jail, who felt like he was a right to hand of God and everything like that. And then Jeffrey's baptism and [00:54:00] repentance before that. Right. Do you think the repentance is real? For, for me. Like I was saying earlier, I, I don't want people to get into this space of thinking like we have space to judge anyone.I don't care how terrible it is. Right? It's like if somebody's like a monk, you know, in certain religions they feel like all life is sacred. So they would never, like say, step on a roach, Okay, we'll step on a roach, kill a spider in a fucking heartbeat. Cuz we view it as a threat or just gross or whatever.But if somebody goes to murder an elephant for their ivory, you know, then we're like, Oh no. How could you, I'm not justifying the murder of the elephants, but I'm saying like, if we get judgey, that monk could judge you for stepping on the roach. So I want people to be careful how they tread, because these people in jail, especially the guy that killed him, just couldn't, He was so offended by what he had done.He was like, I did bad shit, but it wasn't as bad as yours, so I'm running to kill you now. Mm-hmm.[00:55:00]Demi: obviously that guy had some mental problems and he became obsessed with this thing and, and obviously he had a very. Active vendetta against Dahmer for whatever reason. For many reasons I'm sure. But I think when it comes to forgiveness, I think it's important to forgive if not only for the sake of others, but for the sake of ourselves.When I mean, you don't have to forgive a person, you don't have to forget either. But I think in order for us to kinda like move on from like trauma like this, it is kind of important to be like, just forgive the situation. You know, just to kind of like allow some release of some way. You don't have to forgive the person, but just forgive the situation for what happened.And I think that's one way to do it. Perhaps the best way, I don't know, whatever works for you, like, whatever, it's [00:56:00] through religion, finding forgiveness through that, which I'm not sure if that was fully , I'm sure if that was fully authentic of, of Doward to kind of go through that. At the end, maybe he finally felt bad for the situation cuz I mean he was very aware, he was very self-aware of what was going on.He was just like, I, I just don't know how to control this. And, but maybe that was a way for him to kind of like, move through it. But at the same time, he also had some narcissistic tendencies at the very, when he started getting fan mail and stuff, he started getting a big head, you know, . Cause I, I really don't know where to place that, but I think in, for forgiveness to really happen, some sort of like forgiveness within needs to happen first.De'Vannon: True. I feel like if he meant his repentance that he, he had the priest commander baptize him and everything, I think just like Jesus did on the cross, and I think Jesus had a murder and a thief up there with him. Yeah. You know, Jesus said that He'll forgive you for anything with the exception of Blast Fing the [00:57:00] Holy Ghost, which is like a, something that I don't think most of us even know how to do, to be quite honest.But and a lot of people might not care Demi: to die. How do we do that? ? Can you tell us step by stepDe'Vannon: They create Little Holy Ghosts and Blast femurs. researched it. I've been there, researched it because I was like, How do you even, I think it has something to do with a very deep and like, kind of like rejection of, of, of God on like, like a, on like a super, super, super, super, super deep. Level that it's, it's very hard to explain and I, and I don't really, I I can't explain it to you cuz even though I've read it, I'm like, okay, I'm reading this and I was trying to read this, trying to understand that the original culture of the Middle East where this came from, and I'm all like, I don't know, this is like a deep, deep, deep level of [00:58:00] disrespect.And if, if you, if you're this, this adverse towards, towards the Holy Ghost, you would probably know. And this is beyond like, well I'm undecided on God or I don't know if I'm gonna believe in him. This is like this is like a Rast rant thing and I cannot explain it because I don't know how to blast feed the Holy Ghost.And after reading it, I just know, okay, I ain't done that and I never will because that's like really far out. Right? You do. So, so so I would just say people watch the show. I don't know if this may be cathartic for people who, whose family members have been murdered on any level to watch other people go through it.I think that there's some healing to be found in it. So watch it the seat and see what you can get out of it. Demi: I would say or not, if you're not comfortable with that kind of stuff, don't, because it's, it's not, it's not for everyone [00:59:00] and I think it might, obviously it brought up a lot of conversation, especially online about victims and all that stuff.If you're not comfortable in that, it might not be good for you to watch. On the other hand, those who aren't probably not that sensitive to it or perhaps have done some sort of, you know, work in, in this, in that kind of realm to be sure you're able to like handle the kind of things, which I thought I was very.Open to this type of stuff. I was like, really gung ho The moment I was like, Yeah, let's watch Daher. Everyone's talking about it, let's do it. That first episode had me like, Oh my God, I can't, I gotta wait. I gotta wait a day. , you know, I gotta watch a comedy after this. I gotta watch it stand up or something.Cause I, I don't think it's for everyone, but I think it's for a specific type of person. I think it, there is some sort of healing in it as well. But also it's a lot of like more learning from, in my opinion. [01:00:00]De'Vannon: Well, if anyone needs a friend or to talk to us about anything that you may come across. We're not mental health professionals, but we do.We are life professionals and we have lived through some experiences. My website is Sex Drugs in jesus.com, and that's where you can reach me. All my information is there, video1836075140: baby. Demi: And mine's dimitri wild.com. But before we let you go, shall we do a little round of red flags? De'Vannon: Yes. Demi: All right. All right. Number one red flag.They keep an mysterious oil drum in their bedroom.De'Vannon: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he did, he did have a, a red or an oil drum in his bedroom, , and we know enough to know, well, there are the body's in there, but , you know, then they didn't have so much television and, you know, the sharing of knowledge. But yeah, there was [01:01:00] that Demi: red flag for sure. Their apartments smelled like dead animals.De'Vannon: That was a red flag, which Jeffrey always explained the way is rotten meat in the refrigerator. , Demi: they have a fish De'Vannon: tank,but most people haven't smelled a dead decaying corpse. So most people have a frame of reference. But this is not just like, You, you just ran or just had one of those days where you're feeling not so fresh this year?Demi: Wait, you're still talking about the dead animals? . De'Vannon: This is beyond that. So yeah, beyond that it was Thank a Dan. Demi: Dan. Exactly. They have a fish tank.De'Vannon: Well, I suppose I don't see so much fishes around anymore. I don't with a fish tank anymore, but I don't think that that would be a red flag unless all the fish are dead. Which I [01:02:00]think a couple of his were, Yeah, Demi: beta. The beta fish that fight.How about if they live with their grandmother? Red flag? De'Vannon: Depends on the nature of it. You know, if he owns the house. And he's, and he's Sha letting Granny Shack with him then? No. But at that age, and it doesn't have to be, If somebody's going through hard times, I would not judge them for that. But when Granny's coming down, throwing shade and reading Jeffrey for a filth and like clearly, okay, run bitch granny don't like, can, cannot deal with her own grandchild.Why should you And Granny called too. Granny was strong too. Was strong, you know, She was like, Hell no, I'm not leaving, bitch, this is my house.Demi: Last one, they order liver and onions at [01:03:00] dinner.De'Vannon: Growing up in the south we had liver and onions all the time, but it was cow liver. That tip my knowledge, not peopleDemi: I don't think I'd, I don't think I'd like anyone who ordered liver at dinner. Like it would be like weird. It's just gross. De'Vannon: Well, out there in California, y'all don't have southern cuisines, so you don't have like grit, You don't have that. Yeah. Greens and, you know, and shit like that. Maybe if you go down to Roscoe's Chicken and waffles, you might find something close to that.But other than that, you know, something, half the shit we eat down here, you'd probably be like a red flag. Oh Lord, a pig. Lift a pig, lift a pigs foot. Oh hell no. I'm not about to get cut up in this motherfucker. I'm out. . Demi: Yeah, I mean I'm, I definitely grew up in Southern California, so I grew up on like, you know, chicken in pork, but like, that's about as far weird as I got, you know, [01:04:00] liver, not so much.De'Vannon: But they say it's super good for you. It tasted lean. I can't, I don't know that anybody ever became morbidly obese off of eating liver out of all the things that we ate that probably came around in the, like a lower 10%. It's not like I saw it a whole hell of a lot. And I haven't seen it in years, you know, now.But after this show here, maybe people will stop using, eating it all together. Right. Demi: Well that's all the red flags I have. , I guess. Thanks for everyone for tuning in. This has really been really fun. Thanks to Van for doing this with me, This little collab that we got going on. De'Vannon: Thank you. Go for agreeing to come on and for and, and for pushing me to, you know, to get it.I was trying to like, You know, I was like, I can be such a procrastinator, but you know, when Dimi makes up her mind, y is going get done. And I Absolut love [01:05:00] it. She was like, Yes, let's do this shit now. And I was like, Oh, Demi: like what are you doing November? I'm like this is Halloween, girl. This is Halloween.Well again, thank you for doing this with us. Thanks for listening everyone, and we'll see you next time. Bye bye. I.De'Vannon: Thank you all so much for taking time to listen to the Sex Drugs and Jesus podcast. It really means everything to me. Look, if you love the show, you can find more information and resources at SexDrugsAndJesus.com or wherever you listen to your podcast. Feel free to reach out to me directly at DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com and on Twitter and Facebook as well.My name is De'Vannon, and it's been wonderful being your host today. And just remember that everything is gonna be right.