Podcasts about dsos

When it comes to scaling smarter, not scattered, there are three mistakes owners make that hurt efficiency, profitability, and leadership. Kiera talks about how Dental A-Team helps practices simplify methods so that success is humming across all locations. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I hope you are having such an amazing day. Today is podcasting day and I actually did a little reel for you guys to come and enjoy getting ready for me on podcasting day. My husband and I, we did this funny thing when I got like amped myself up and we're like, I love my life. I love my job. I love podcasting. And I don't know if you guys have seen that little girl.   who does that where she gets so excited about life and it's like, I love my bed, I love my hot tub, I love my view. And truly I love all of you. And I'm just super excited to be here with you podcasting, to be talking about great things in dentistry. And today I think that this one's going out to our multi-practice owners. And these are three costly gaps that I've noticed within multi-practice ownership that really try to highlight some of the gaps because at the end of the day, the podcast was created   to help all dentists elevate, to help all of us rise, to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And that's what we're about. That's what our mission is. That's what I'm about. And so today going out to those multi-practice owners, or for those of you thinking about multi-practice ownership and do you want to do this? do you want to like, what are some of these gaps that maybe could also impact solo practice owners? So at Dental A Team, do work with solo practice owners, multi-practice owners. We work with...   like from basically one million, you know, you're maybe at that 650, one million range, all the way up to that 10, 15, $20 million range as well for practices. And there is a no one size fits all in Dental A Team I'm very, very, very, very big on who we hire and who the people are within our company. And with our clients that this is your life. This is your dream. There is no ultimate destination that we're trying to get all of our practices to. There is no final   You've got to hit this in order to be excellent within Dental A Team. is what is your life? We have some owners that are working at two or three days a week. We have some owners that are working six days a week. We have some that want multi-practice ownership. have others that want solo practice ownership. We have some that are solo practitioners doing 4 million in one location of about six to seven operatories. We have others that are in multi-locations doing 2 million. So really there is a no one size fits all. It's more what do you want to be? And we call this the yes model. So where do you   personally and professionally want to be. stands for earnings to make sure you're profitable and S stands for systems and teams to support that. So really making sure that way you can say yes to your life, yes to the things you want in life. That's what we're about. So with that, like when you look at multi-practice ownership, it does not necessarily mean adding more profit. I've talked to several multi-practice owners that are actually making less money in multi-practice ownership than they are.   prior to expanding to multi locations. Think about it. You've got one location that's doing really well, the other one's not doing so well, well, your good one has to then support your not so cash flowing one. So sometimes it actually can be a lot more costly for you. And so for you to just realize that some of the ways that we can do this will actually impact solo practitioners. ⁓ And so the three things that we're gonna work on today are like,   things that hurt efficiency, they hurt profitability and they hurt leadership. So when we look at this, doing a deep dive on that, that's really what I want you to look at of like how you can scale smarter and not scattered because really with multi-practice ownership, I remember the day we opened our second location. Our first practice was doing, it was 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months. And then we opened our second location and you better believe that it was like just adding more fuel to this already burning chaos fire. I think that's really, really clear. And I hope you heard that it was adding more fuel.   to the chaos fire, not to the profitable fire, but to the chaos fire. ⁓ And that was really, really, really struggling. ⁓ It was hard on me. It was hard on our practice. It was hard on the team. I was not showing up as a great manager. I was not showing up as a great ⁓ leader. I was not showing up as a great partner. ⁓ I was not showing up great in my marriage. It was like literally just trying to swim through and feel like I was trying to survive rather than doing it smart. And so that's something really big that we've been wanting to do for all of you is   to give you this smarter way. Dental A Team was really here for you. It was built by people who are just like you, who have been in your shoes, they don't just understand you, but have actually been in your shoes, who's walked the walk, talked the talk, and we've done it very successfully. So I love to help offices. Hopefully we're helping you. ⁓ And if you love this podcast, please be sure to like it, start, share it, because that's how we're able to help and influence more people. number one, the biggest number one miss is no centralized operations. So that means ⁓ we don't...   we don't have a central plan and instead our practices are individual islands. This was very much my practices. We had our one and it was doing certain things and we had our second one and it was not doing certain things. And so going from each practice felt like I was going to multiple different locations, multi different pieces and that really gets hard. And so we have inconsistent systems which means we have unpredictable outcomes. And then on that, like we did not have a set way that we'd schedule. So we'd schedule one way at our first location another way at our second location.   Our billing was not the same. The way we were insurance verifying, our fee schedules weren't even the same because we were in two different cities. And so we had different fee schedules. ⁓ Reporting was not the same. We did not have leaders in both practices. We did not have SOPs that could scale. Like truly our operations manual was not done and we just thought buy another practice and let's go through this. Rather than having a set standard, and this is something I'm really big on when people want to go to multi-practice ownership or they're already in multi-practice ownership. This is really where we start. There's a practice that we're working with and   I think about them, were, the solo doctor was running around to every single location, trying to out-produce the problems instead of fixing the problems at the base level. And that's going to be through this of like centralized systems and getting systems in place and like having our scheduling and our billing and our cashflow consistent and looking at each of the individual practices ⁓ to make sure that they are centralized. And so when we work with multi-locations,   What we do is we actually simplify it down. So you don't necessarily have to have centralized billing or scheduling like right away. Once you get to that four or five, usually it's very recommended to have centralized billing or I've got some practices that are multi like it's one location, but they have about 15 to 17 operatories. Well, that does count in my opinion as multi ops, multi practices, cause a lot of times multi practices are like five ops or more. So you think about a 15 op practice that's like three practices, but just under one roof.   So even in this larger practice, I often recommend we start to centralizing. So we have a set standard of how we're doing billing. We have different reporting metrics. You've got to have the KPIs. We've got to have the set system. So what we started to do is we standardized the operatories. So all ops are the same. We standardized how we're scheduling. We're all in the same softwares. We have an SOP. So we've got our front office, our back office teams, and we do the exact same way. So how we're doing it. We had both practices auditing each other so that we standards were not getting missed and it wasn't.   Well, this practice does it this way and this one does it this way. No, we're trying to make these standardized. that way, again, it's not so that way we can't have our own flare and variety at the different locations, but it's so that way when practices show up and doctors show up, we're actually able to be efficient and effective because we're able to have it be the same. It's like, could you imagine ⁓ if your practices were like everybody's varying different houses? So the way I put my silverware in my house might be very different than where you put your silverware in your house.   So just imagine we've got five different houses, how much easier it would be if we all walk in and we all agree that silverware goes to the right of the dishwasher. Well, now, no matter where the dishwasher is placed in a house, we know silverware will always be to the right of the dishwasher. Just like when we walk into an operatory, we always know that the ⁓ disposable, so our gauze, our cotton, is always to the right of X. It all practices. So as much as we can get them similar, so that way it's just more efficient, it's more streamlined, everything is working together rather than against each other.   but truly getting centralized operations in multi-operatories or multi-locations is going to be one of the biggest ways to cut costs, to save time, and to make it more efficient for a better patient care all the way around the board. So really look at your practice and see, do we have inconsistent systems? Are we doing things differently? Do we have different flares and flavors? Do we have like five different houses within our multi-practice ownership? And what could we do to unify it across all of the practices this quarter? And usually when I'm starting with an office,   I'm going to look for the scheduling because that's usually the fastest. Then the operatories will be my next piece that I'm going to go for. And then after that, we're going to go into our billing tactics and making sure that goes into it, which leads me right into point number two. And this is gap number two and it's profit per location is not being tracked. A lot of times when people get multipractices, what they do is they just keep it all under one tax ID number. I understand your reasoning. I did that when I started my multiple businesses. It actually gets really hairy scary. And so ⁓   Yes, like let's untangle this. I'm not a CPA. My job is not to be giving you financial advice. My job is just to help you as a consultant. We pair really well with CPAs. And so miss number two is when we don't have profit being tracked per location, but overall as total revenue, but not knowing which practice is profitable and which practice is struggling. That's a really, really, really big miss as a practice. So helping you just understand that you've got to a hundred percent.   make sure we're looking at the profitability and breaking it apart. So each practice has its own tax ID number. Yes, this is annoying. Yes, you have to fix the billing pieces for it, but each practice needs to be treated like its own individual business unit. within the bigger whole. So it's like we have the same standards, we have the same operatory setup, we have the same softwares, we have the same billing tactics, but what we have is we make sure each practice is profitable.   So we know how much are we paying for all the fixed versus variable costs and we're tracking those within each location. When team members travel between each location, they're actually paid out of two separate entities. So they could be technically putting in more than 40 hours, but if they're only putting 20 hours here and 30 hours here, technically that's not over time. It's like working two different jobs. Now you have to be careful with that to make sure that those employees are not overworked.   But making sure that like when I've got team members going to multi locations, I am tracking it per location. I am tracking it per practice. When I've got regional managers separating out that regional manager salary amongst all the locations to make sure is this practical profitable? And if not, what are the underperformers? What are the root causes? How can I get this profitable? Can we do block scheduling in there? Can I work on my costs? I've got two practices right now and their rent is much higher in one location. Well, if I've got higher rent over there and higher costs,   I have to produce more in that practice than I do. So I can't have the exact same block scheduling in both locations. I can still block schedule similarly, but I have to make sure that I'm hitting my correct overhead percentages and that each practice is profitable. We have separate credit cards for each location. So we're ordering on those separate credit cards. So it is per location. We have different bank accounts for each location. So the money's coming in so we can see what it is. And what's crazy is when offices actually do this, what they find is   they're actually able to quickly identify what the root causes of that practice. They're able to bring it up to par. like one practice, they're losing money due to not having hygiene reappointments in there. So like the hygiene team is not as profitable as they should be. So we laser focus in on that. We fix the systems across the board, but we laser focus on the practice that's struggling. And we're actually able to boost them by 400,000 per year just by fixing that one small problem, because we're not looking at the organization as a whole. Yes, you do need to look at the organization as a whole.   but you do need to like scope it down to how each practice is performing. And this should be weekly, monthly, quarterly to then assess how we're doing. ⁓ When people get into multi level DSOs, you better believe they're looking at their top performers and their lower performance. And a lot of times they cut those lower performing offices out because that's hurting their overall profitability of the business. So many offices have really high producing practices and they're dumping it to go save the other ones. Just like thinking about a real estate portfolio.   they're looking and rebalancing those portfolios, but for you to rebalance it is to make sure you're tracking the profit per location and we're fixing the issues at the base root problem. ⁓ And so really what it should be is you should A, make sure you're running them individually, B, do a P &L by location and let's figure out where our gaps are within the finances to see how can I make each location profitable and set that as the target as the goal for your regional, for your office managers.   This is the goal per location. I work with an office and we have six locations that we go to quarterly. And we are looking at their scorecards every single week, every single practice. And then we look collectively at the whole to make sure organization as a whole is profitable. Yes, when we started new and of course we're going to be dumping money into it. But the goal is for that new practice to be profitable. Six months to one year max is when they need to start breaking profit. And so when teams know this, when office managers know this, what happens is the whole   portfolio actually does better and the businesses are running much more effectively, efficiently with better patient care, better team awareness all around. So that's miss number two, ⁓ gap number two. Miss number three is not having consistent accountability. So when you have it, oftentimes it's just this chaos. Like I said, like we're adding more fuel to a chaos burning fire. And so ⁓ when we have that there's no roles, there's no structured check-ins, there's...   It just feels like hope and pray. And then we're trying to like get the profitability margins. We're trying to do all those pieces. So we've got to have cadences in there of weekly calls, having weekly scorecards and quarterly reviews. ⁓ And so when you have leaders at each location, what they do is they, get all office managers together on a weekly call. They look at the scorecards for their practices. They look cross company so they can look at all the other offices. So if I'm struggling with a profitability, but this office over here is doing really well.   office managers sync up, let's have you two work together, let's have you see what you're doing differently. That way everybody's able to be profitable. So that really helps. And then you empower all the leaders to own their KPIs and report back. So they're owning their teams, they're owning their departments, they're owning the profitability of their practice. And then this way we're able to have metrics that are the same across all locations. So having a set scorecard that's used, when we do it within our company, we have practice A, practice B, practice C.   Right now I've got an office I'm thinking of and practice A is super profitable and practice B is not. And they're just looking at it collectively as a whole versus saying, my gosh, we've got to get like practice B profitable. Practice B is not producing and it's not collecting what it should be. A lot of times also that profitability margin is hurting because we're not collecting. And so one practice is very much collecting, paying for the other practice, but it's just due to broken systems and not having that O-M responsible. And it's because we're spread across trying to be   ⁓ efficient, which is true, but we have to have individualized centralized accountability frameworks in each location. So it reports up. People know who's ultimately responsible for that practice for the different pieces, rather than it being we're all responsible for everything. That means nothing is actually truly being tracked. So ⁓ when we've implemented these scorecards across practices, usually what you start to see is you see an increase in profitability, an increase in collections, an increase in case acceptance, because everybody's looking   Like we're looking side to side, it's like Sudoku. I'm looking to see how am I comparing with my other practices and how can I get the support where I'm struggling? And then you also start to create cohesiveness as a unity. You start to create cross collaboration. And this is a huge, huge, huge mess in multi-practice ownership and even in bigger practices. So when you look at this and you have that weekly reporting rhythm, you have this weekly accountability, and then you start to empower your leaders to meet with their team members once a month.   and then have quarterly cadences where we're looking to see how we're doing, you start to see teams rise up. Because now it's like, great, we know what the scoreboard is. We know what we're aiming for. know everybody knows what they're accountable for. There's no more of this confusion of what should we be doing or should my practice do this, but your practice doesn't. You try to get them as standardized as possible. And what I will tell you is working with multiple multi-practice owners, this is not a dream. This is a reality that you should be striving for and that you can do. I love to work with Mac.   multi-practice owners because I love to take the chaos and turn it into simplicity. I love to help you see which like it's like a ball of yarn and you're like, my gosh, like pull this string or pull this string or pull that string. And like, we don't know how to untangle what we've created. And so doing these three misses of not having centralized operations. So making sure we're centralized across the board, making sure each practice is profitable and then having accountability across the board. When you streamline those across all your locations,   instantly things get better. Scaling is not great when it's chaos. Scaling is great when it's tightened, when it's predictable, and when it's consistent. That's when it becomes fun. That's when it becomes fun to be multi-practice honored, but it is not fun when it is the chaos. And so when we do this, this is something that I'm obsessed with. This is something I love to help offices. This is where I love to help regional managers figure out how to do this because a lot of times they don't even know. They've never done it before. They've just been a great office manager and doing one baby versus five babies.   We all know as parents and siblings and aunts and uncles, we know that one baby is a lot easier than five babies. However, five babies can actually be easier on certain levels when we have set standards and we have set processes and we have set things in place and we've got rhythms and we've got routines that actually sometimes can be easier than just one because it forces you to actually rise up. It forces you to be better than what you've been. And so with this, just know these are some of the three big gaps that we see in multi-practice ownership or large practice ownership.   These are some of the areas that we really expert help. And hopefully for you to just have a quick like checklist of like, where am I doing on my standardized ops? How am I doing on profitability of each location? And how am I doing on accountability, KPI tracking, scorecard accountability, weekly check-ins, implementing just a few of these things will radically help you. But sometimes it's so hard to lift your head up out of the bubble when you're living in the bubble. And so if you're struggling with that, reach out.   Like let's just have a conversation. Let's see if we're a right fit. If nothing else, we'll give you a lot of gaps, a lot of tools, a lot of tips and help you out. reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com and click on the book of call. This is what we do. We create structure for scale, clarity for leaders and profit for every location. Like that is what our obsession is. And so I'd love to help you out. As always, just know dentistry is the greatest place we could ever possibly be in. We are so blessed to be a part of dentistry.   And I just want you to remember like if multi-practice ownership or larger practice ownerships on the horizon, these are things to do. If you're already in the weeds of it, you know, it's a lot harder to actually do than you thought it was. And so reach out. There's no reason to do this alone. The industry is hard as it is. So there's no reason to do this alone. Reach out. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

In this episode of the Less Insurance Dependence podcast, host Lester De Alwis sits down with dental business expert Scott Plantenberg to talk about building real financial freedom by reducing reliance on insurance. Scott brings 30+ years of experience in dental practice growth, consulting, and transitions, and shares why fee-for-service practices often have higher value, stronger profits, and better long-term outcomes. Together, they explore the warning signs of PPO overdependence, how to safely transition away from low-paying plans, and why small practices should think more like DSOs when planning for growth. This conversation is full of practical advice, especially for dentists looking to build a more profitable and independent practice—whether they're just starting out or preparing for sale. Book your free marketing strategy meeting with Ekwa at your convenience. Plus, at the end of the session, get a free analysis report to find out where your practice stands online. It's our gift to you! https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/marketing-strategy-meeting/   If you're looking to boost your case acceptance rates and enhance patient communication, you can schedule a Coaching Strategy Meeting with Gary Takacs. With his experience in helping practices thrive, Gary will work with you on personalized coaching, ensuring you and your team are prepared to present treatment plans confidently, offer financing options, and communicate the value of essential dental services. https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/csm/ 

In this episode of the Dental Boardroom Podcast, host Wes Read, CPA and financial advisor at Practice CFO, and Dr. Howard Farran, Founder of Dentaltown, delve into the evolving landscape of dental ownership from the rise of private equity in dentistry to the challenges and opportunities facing today's practitioners.They explore how cheap financing and investor enthusiasm fueled massive consolidation in the dental space over the past decade, and why the focus is now shifting from quantity to quality. As interest rates rise and capital tightens, DSOs and private equity groups are becoming more selective, prioritizing well-run, profitable practices over sheer scale.The discussion also contrasts private equity-led DSOs with those founded and guided by dentists, examining how leadership, culture, and long-term vision shape patient outcomes and professional integrity.Dr. Farran passionately defends the importance of dentist-led organizations, transparency, and long-term patient relationships, emphasizing that dentistry is a “sacred profession,” not just a business. Wes complements this view with a grounded financial perspective, offering practical advice for dentists who aspire to grow sustainably, without losing their clinical focus or personal balance.Key TakeawaysThe PE Boom and Shift: Low interest rates and abundant capital fueled a buying frenzy in dental practices, but the landscape is changing with higher borrowing costs.From Volume to Value: DSOs are now focused on high-quality operations and sustainable cash flow rather than mass acquisitions.Dentist-Led vs. Investor-Led DSOs: Dr. Farran stresses that DSOs led by clinicians, not “suits,” create better care models and stronger trust with patients.Operational Mastery First: Before expanding, dentists should perfect one successful “prototype” practice much like McDonald's perfected its first store before scaling.Liquidity and Transparency Matter: Private equity's lack of transparency and illiquidity pose risks; publicly traded or dentist-owned models offer more accountability.AI and Dentistry: Both see promise and potential pitfalls as AI expands into diagnostics and insurance, cautioning that technology can empower or restrict clinicians depending on who controls it.

In this episode of the Dental Boardroom Podcast, host Wes Read, CPA and financial advisor at Practice CFO, sits down with Howard Farran, founder of Dentaltown and one of the most influential thought leaders in the dental industry. Together, they explore the evolution of dentistry from emerging AI technology to the rise of DSOs, the challenges new grads face, and the skills needed to thrive in today's rapidly shifting landscape. This episode delivers raw insights, bold perspectives, and practical lessons for dentists at every stage of their careers.Key PointsAI & the Future of DentistryAI is transforming dentistry at historic speed—comparable to the rise of the internet.Dentaltown is building AI tools to unlock insights from 10+ million dental conversations.AI won't replace dentists but dentists who adopt AI will replace those who don't.Example: Robotics like Yomi are enhancing implant surgery, not eliminating the surgeon.The Real DSO LandscapeNot all DSOs are massive corporate chains.The real competition for private practices? Local 4–9 location DSOs scaling smartly across small regions.These local groups win by leveraging:Shared marketingCentralized operationsBetter purchasing powerStructured systemsAdvice for Young DentistsStudent debt is real, but so are lifestyle choices that amplify it.Early career focus should be:Clinical reps and speedLearning practice systemsStrong mentorshipThe best first job is one that teaches:Business operationsFull-scope clinical carePatient flow and case acceptanceThe Competitive Edge for Private PracticePatients choose loyalty, trust, and relationships.Private practices win when they deliver:Consistency in careStable teamsReal human connectionHigh staff and doctor turnover in corporate settings creates opportunities for private offices to stand out.Know Your Numbers With the Right AdvisorA general accountant isn't enough in dentistry.Dentists need advisors who understand:PPO strategyOverhead benchmarksPractice-specific financial planningGrowth vs. profitabilitySpecialized financial guidance is a competitive advantage.Insurance is Not the Whole MarketHalf of patients don't have dental insurance.Present multiple treatment paths:Basic → Mid-tier → Ideal careNever assume what a patient can or can't afford—let them choose.Who Should Listen?✔ New dentists navigating debt and career choices ✔ Private practice owners competing with DSOs ✔ Clinicians curious about AI adoption ✔ Anyone wanting unfiltered industry truth

Top 5 Topics:- Dentistry From California to Tennessee- The Truth About Dental Insurance and Patient Confusion- Root Canals, TikTok Myths & Biologic Dentistry — Fact vs Fiction- Life After Dental School — GPR Residency, DSOs & Choosing Your Path- Dentists on Social Media — Marketing, Cancel Culture & The New FrontierQuotes & Wisdom:10:38 — “When an insurance company says ‘100% covered,' that ‘100%' is often only 10–20% of what it actually costs to deliver care.”12:32 — “Dentistry feels optional—until it isn't. I've seen people land in the hospital with neck and face infections because an infection was ignored.”13:30 — “Letting a chronic infection linger can cost you bone that you need for that future implant—and other options. Prevention preserves choices.”14:58 — “Not every wisdom tooth needs to come out. If it's clean, functional, and symptom-less, we leave it.”19:31 — “I make content about what I'm actually thinking—humor when it fits, serious when it matters—so it teaches and connects.”22:33 — “At the VA the sky's the limit clinically—options aren't shut down by finances, in certain situations, so care can be truly patient-centered.”27:08 — “Specializing should be about fit, not momentum. If you're already getting cold feet before Match, listen to that.”33:07 — “If you want us to market, network, and grow the practice, give us skin in the game—an ownership track.”48:44 — “Social media isn't just ‘posting'; it's a pre-consult. Patients meet your vibe before they ever sit in the chair.”41:59 — “Different platforms, different cultures—Instagram is refined; TikTok can be a brawl. Post with clarity and expect misreads.”Questions:01:29 — “Why Tennessee—why'd you switch over there?”03:40 — “Give me one ‘good' and one ‘bad' way the move has felt so far?”07:07 — “What procedures are you doing that others in your office haven't really done yet?”09:11 — “How is it practicing dentistry in Tennessee—fee-for-service or heavy insurance?”10:38 — “Patients hear ‘100% covered' from insurance—what are your thoughts on that mismatch and the blame dentists get?”17:37 — “When a patient says ‘no root canal' because of what they saw online, how do you respond?”19:25 — “What's your favorite part of creating content—what are you on lately and how do you approach it?”21:09 — “Is GPR vs jumping straight to practice the #1 thing students ask you about?”23:33 — “When did you realize (or not) that a specialty was for you?”34:05 — “In California, do you need a GPR to work—or can you go straight in?”31:10 — “DSO or private practice—where do you land and why?”Now available on:- Dr. Gallagher's Podcast & YouTube Channel- Dose of Dental Podcast #194My watch in this episode = Tag Heuer Aquaracer Calibre 16 Chrono- 11.2025

On today's episode, we're joined once again by Janet Hagerman, recorded during a timely conversation about the evolving hygiene landscape in group dentistry. As a fractional Chief Hygiene Officer (CHO), Janet partners with emerging DSOs to build hygiene departments that are not just profitable, but also patient-centered and scalable.  Live from Florida, Janet and Dr. Mark Costes discuss the real-world impact of the hygiene shortage, what it takes to create an effective periodontal program, and how DSOs have matured into more doctor- and patient-centric organizations. Janet also unpacks the strategies behind her books Selling Dentistry and Meetings Make Money, and explains why assisted hygiene, KPIs, and strong practice culture are essential for sustainable growth. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.janethagerman.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Dr. Bob “Dee” Dokhanchi, seasoned private practice dentist, tech advisor, and founder of the Facebook group Dentistry in General. A passionate advocate for transparency and grassroots reform, Bob brings energy and insight to the future of dentistry. In this episode, Bob shares his journey from clinical honors at Loyola to leading advocacy efforts within the ADA. He discusses DIG-A-PALOOZA , food insecurity among dental students, the licensing compact debate, and the challenges of selling to DSOs—all with his signature “fuzzy math” clarity and entrepreneurial fire. To learn more about Bob and Dentistry in General, visit https://dentistryingeneral.com or join the Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/16J7DacEYY/ Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

The dental industry is chronically supply-constrained: 97% of dentists report staffing as their primary volume limiter, 95% cite extreme recruiting difficulty, yet 75% of hygienists prioritize schedule flexibility above all else. This structural mismatch created the opportunity for Toothio—a labor marketplace connecting dental professionals seeking flexible work with practices facing critical staffing shortages. In this episode, we sat down with Ian Prendergast, Co-Founder and CEO of Toothio, to unpack how he applied labor marketplace principles from hospitality and light industrial verticals to dental, why DSO enterprise customers emerged as the true ICP only after launch, and how being an industry outsider enabled business model innovation that insiders missed. Topics Discussed: How a single golf course conversation with a dentist exposed the 97% staffing crisis and validated the market opportunity Translating labor marketplace GTM from Qwick (hospitality staffing) and Steady Install (light industrial) into dental The supply-demand structural imbalance: dental growing 10.5% CAGR, 40% workforce departure in 2020, insufficient pipeline Supply-first marketplace development and why quality/reliability required deep supply pools before demand acquisition The ICP evolution from private practices (faster sales cycles, lower risk validation) to DSO enterprise (higher volume, stickier retention) Building credibility as outsider founders through strategic SME hires, advisors, and embedding in industry associations The enterprise motion: hiring CCO and SVP Sales with dental Rolodexs to access top-10 DSO decision-makers Quantifying previously unmeasured costs: 100%+ recruiting cost increases, industry-leading turnover rates, $1,560+ daily production loss per unstaffed hygienist Leveraging AI agentic systems to eliminate geographic marketplace constraints for national expansion The moat-building roadmap: layering SaaS and RCM software over the distribution channel to increase switching costs GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: Supply depth before demand scale prevents unit economics collapse: Ian's experience across three labor marketplaces reinforced one principle: excess supply is recoverable, excess demand is catastrophic. With too much demand and insufficient supply, you're "spending a bunch of money to acquire these demand users, but you're not able to fulfill the supply side. So now they're churning out at a high clip, they're going somewhere else. And now it drives up your CAC across the marketplace and reduces your lifetime value." In two-sided marketplaces, founders must resist investor pressure to show demand-side revenue before supply reliability is proven—the temporary revenue bump destroys long-term unit economics. ICP clarity requires live market data, not pre-launch assumptions: Toothio launched targeting private practices (shorter sales cycles, lower barriers, faster learning) before discovering DSOs were the actual ICP through usage cohorts showing materially higher volume and retention. Ian was explicit: "Once we got into it, we realized...the true ICP is going to be our group practices." The tactical framework: establish presence across plausible segments, instrument everything, collect 1-2 quarters of behavioral data, then redirect resources to wherever retention and expansion metrics are strongest. This data-driven ICP discovery prevents premature optimization around the wrong customer profile. Hire senior enterprise operators when you have validation plus clear TAM: Toothio broke conventional early-stage wisdom by hiring a Chief Commercial Officer and SVP Sales—roles typically considered "top-heavy"—because Ian had validated product-market fit and identified a concentrated enterprise opportunity (hundreds of DSOs). The result: "Next thing you know, we're in front of five or six of the top eight or ten DSOs in the country." The decision framework: if you have (1) proven unit economics, (2) clear product-market fit signals, and (3) an enterprise TAM with established relationship networks, senior hires with category Rolodexs can compress multi-year enterprise sales cycles into quarters. Without all three conditions, follow conventional wisdom and stay lean. Outsider economic analysis creates differentiated value propositions: Ian's non-dental background enabled him to "look at the dental office P&L and the core drivers of production with a completely neutral lens and realize that there was a lot of waste." He quantified what insiders hadn't: recruiting costs up 100%+ in five years, dental turnover among the highest of any U.S. industry, and the compounding cost of cancelled patient days (immediate production loss + 20% patient churn × $10-15K lifetime values). This economic framing repositioned Toothio from "staffing vendor" to strategic finance partner. The pattern: outsiders should weaponize their fresh perspective by conducting rigorous economic impact analysis that category incumbents haven't done, then speak to buyers in CFO language rather than operational features. Industry association involvement is enterprise distribution, not brand marketing: Ian credited local and national dental association sponsorships as "the catalyst to get us on the radar of some of the bigger orgs early" because associations created credibility signals plus network effects at scale. In relationship-driven B2B categories with strong professional associations (dental, legal, accounting, healthcare), sponsorship generates repeated exposure to concentrated decision-maker populations and warm introduction paths that cold outbound can't replicate. Founders should map the association landscape in year one, treat it as a primary distribution channel with measurable pipeline contribution, and staff it with team members who can build genuine relationships—not just write checks. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

Back in 2011, I gave a lecture called “The Coming Storm for Dentistry.” I warned that insurance companies would choke reimbursements while corporate dentistry scaled up and swallowed private practices.Fourteen years later… well, here we are.In this week's Practice Autonomy Podcast, we open that time capsule and compare those predictions to the real 2025 data — and it's chillingly accurate:

Steve Wright, CEO of Bright Direction Dental shares his story and thoughts on: What clinical autonomy really means. The role of education & training in recruitment & retention. Organic growth & technology. Find out more about Bright Direction Dental here - https://www.brightdirectiondental.com/ You can connect with Steve Wright on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenjwright2/ Sponsored by Garfield Refining. If you would like to learn more about dental scrap refining programs for DSOs & dental group practices, please visit - https://www.garfieldrefining.com/industries/dso/ Subscribe to our channel for more episodes and stay updated on the latest DSO news, insights, and events! If you like our podcast, please give us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review on iTunes https://apple.co/2Nejsfa and a Thumbs Up on YouTube.

Dr. Tiffany Green is a pediatric dentist from the Jackson, Mississippi area. We have a great lunchtime conversation regarding a variety of topics including:- Why dropping Delta Dental was the right move for her practice- How her love for running keeps her sharp as a pediatric dentist- Why DSOs are struggling- Dr. Green's experience and appreciation for Invisalign First, and how she incorporates ortho into her practice

Send us a textIn this landmark episode, Marc Wagner sits down with the legendary Dr. Howard Farran, founder of DentalTown, renowned dentist, speaker, entrepreneur, and unapologetically candid voice in the dental industry. If you've ever wanted to hear the raw, unfiltered truth about what it really takes to thrive in dentistry — not just clinically but financially, mentally, and spiritually — this is the episode to lock into.Dr. Farran brings fire and wisdom to every minute of the conversation, covering everything from the psychology of fear and survival, to burnout, to the difference between dentists who make it and those who stay stuck. This is not another fluffy motivational interview. It's a wake-up call, a roadmap, and a reality check for anyone in the dental field.⸻Key Topics Discussed

Top 5 Topics:- From Stained Glass to Smiles: The Unexpected Journey of a Dentist- The Crazy Commute: Surviving the Dentist Grind, from Boston to Long Island- Massachusetts vs. Long Island Teeth: Why Dental Health Is So Different Across America- Freedom in Dentistry: Escaping the Multi-Office Ping-Pong Commuting and Finding The Perfect Autonomy- Vitamin D, Sunlight & Smiles: Can Weather Change Your Dental Health?Quotes & Wisdom:(05:30) – “When I would go to class, all I had to worry about was just focusing on class. It made me realize later in life how valuable focus really is.”(07:45) – “It's fascinating how small differences — like water fluoridation or smoking habits — can completely change a community's dental health.”(11:12) – “You see some strange stuff on 495… semis flipped, pile-ups… crazy Long Island traffic!”(15:39) – “I wanted a place where I could control my own cases — no one calling to question every crown or treatment plan.”(16:15) – “You get fair compensation, health insurance, and the autonomy to treat patients the right way — that's worth more than anything.”(18:41) – “I've been testing vitamin D supplementation with implants, just to see if there's a measurable difference in osseointegration.”(19:13) – “The angle of the sunlight changes vitamin D production — maybe that's why health outcomes differ between places.”(20:14) – “We should all get to know each other — it's amazing what opportunities come when dentists connect.”Questions:(01:11) – “Did you ever bring up your background in stained glass windows or your dad's CNC work during dental school interviews?”“How did you like being a part of the Catholic High School System, at Chaminade? I went to St. Anthony's!”(02:25) – “How did you end up using that CNC machine for your master's research at Tufts?” (04:30) – “How do you feel when a local school like Our Lady of Mercy closes? Do you think that affects the community?”(06:53) – “How does practicing dentistry in New York compare to Massachusetts?”(10:28) – “What was your commute like working for Aspen Dental in Massachusetts?”(11:53) – “Do you think the ‘ping-pong' schedule between offices is common for DSOs?”(15:11) – “Why did you decide to move from Sachem Dental to Great Expressions?”(17:10) – “You mentioned a pharmacology CE course — any new trends or prescriptions you're interested in lately?”Now available on:- Dr. Gallagher's Podcast & YouTube Channel- Long Island Dentists Podcast #3- Dose of Dental Podcast #188- 10.2025

The grid was never designed for millions of distributed energy assets. Yet today, batteries, EVs, solar, and heat pumps are connecting faster than the network can reinforce - pushing grid capacity to its limits. The result? Growing connection queues, rising curtailment, and a system struggling to keep pace with electrification. So how do we move from a grid that reacts to constraints to one that actively manages them? DSOs are evolving and distribution-level flexibility matters now more than ever. What does it take to build market infrastructure that actually works for both system operators and flexibility providers?In this episode of Transmission, James Johnston - CEO of Piclo, returns to the show to discuss explore how local flexibility markets are being used to manage congestion today and what digitalisation really means for networks.Key topics covered: • Why grid constraints are the biggest threat to the energy transition.• How local flexibility markets are solving real congestion problems today.• The evolving role of DSOs and how they coordinate with TSOs.• What digitalisation means for system planning and grid visibility.• Lessons from live flexibility markets in the UK, Europe, and the US.About our guestJames Johnston is CEO and co-founder of Piclo, a flexibility marketplace used by network and system operators to procure flexibility from distributed energy resources. Through his work at Piclo, he is helping system operators manage congestion, reduce reinforcement costs, and accelerate the transition to a smarter, more flexible electricity system.For more information, head to the Piclo website. https://www.piclo.com/About Modo EnergyModo Energy helps the owners, operators, builders, and financiers of battery energy storage solutions understand the market - and make the most out of their assets.All of our interviews are available to watch or listen to on the Modo Energy site. To keep up with all of our latest updates, research, analysis, videos, conversations, data visualizations, live events, and more, follow us on LinkedIn. Check out The Energy Academy, our bite-sized video series breaking down how power markets work.

The grid was never designed for millions of distributed energy assets. Yet today, batteries, EVs, solar, and heat pumps are connecting faster than the network can reinforce - pushing grid capacity to its limits. The result? Growing connection queues, rising curtailment, and a system struggling to keep pace with electrification. So how do we move from a grid that reacts to constraints to one that actively manages them? DSOs are evolving and distribution-level flexibility matters now more than ever. What does it take to build market infrastructure that actually works for both system operators and flexibility providers?In this episode of Transmission, James Johnston - CEO of Piclo, returns to the show to discuss explore how local flexibility markets are being used to manage congestion today and what digitalisation really means for networks.Key topics covered: • Why grid constraints are the biggest threat to the energy transition.• How local flexibility markets are solving real congestion problems today.• The evolving role of DSOs and how they coordinate with TSOs.• What digitalisation means for system planning and grid visibility.• Lessons from live flexibility markets in the UK, Europe, and the US.About our guestJames Johnston is CEO and co-founder of Piclo, a flexibility marketplace used by network and system operators to procure flexibility from distributed energy resources. Through his work at Piclo, he is helping system operators manage congestion, reduce reinforcement costs, and accelerate the transition to a smarter, more flexible electricity system.For more information, head to the Piclo website. https://www.piclo.com/About Modo EnergyModo Energy helps the owners, operators, builders, and financiers of battery energy storage solutions understand the market - and make the most out of their assets.All of our interviews are available to watch or listen to on the Modo Energy site. To keep up with all of our latest updates, research, analysis, videos, conversations, data visualizations, live events, and more, follow us on LinkedIn. Check out The Energy Academy, our bite-sized video series breaking down how power markets work.

We're joined by Matt McGaw, Founder of PC Med Dent Advisors, a one-man mission helping DSOs and group practices make sense of the ever-growing world of dental tech. Matt's all about cutting through the noise, asking the right questions, finding solutions, and helping teams focus on what matters.  In this episode, we cover: how DSO Compass started and what it's doing differently, the 4 P's that guide Matt's approach to growth and innovation, why fear is the biggest barrier to AI adoption in dental, and so much more.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------  Subscribe & Listen: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/69Dz26hgC9D6YqwN8JMDBV Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mb2-underground/id1747349567 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow MB2 Dental on Social: MB2 Dental: mb2dental.com Instagram: instagram.com/mb2dental Facebook: facebook.com/mb2dental YouTube: youtube.com/@mb2dental LinkedIn: linkedin.com/mb2-dental

This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Joe McGonigal, dental industry veteran, sell-side advisor, and Partner at DDSmatch. With over 20 years of experience, Joe specializes in guiding dentists through successful practice transitions across the Mid-Atlantic region. In this episode, Joe shares his journey from broker newcomer to trusted advisor, and dives into the evolving landscape of dental practice valuations, the impact of DSOs, and the critical role of clean data and strategic guidance in closing high-stakes transitions. To learn more about Joe McGonigal and DDSmatch, visit ddsmatch.com or reach out to him directly at jmcgonigal@ddsmatch.com. Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

In this episode, Avi Weisfogel, Founder and CEO of Restfull - powered by the International Academy of Sleep, shares his journey from dentistry to building innovative solutions in dental sleep medicine. He explains how Restfull removes the obstacles that have kept DSOs from leveraging dental sleep medicine to boost organic EBITDA growth.This episode is sponsored by Restfull.

Dental assistants bring incredible value to every practice, but too often they feel stuck with limited pay and few growth opportunities. In this episode of Dental Assistant Nation, a wonderful guest and respected voice in dentistry, Teresa Duncan, shares her story of moving beyond the operatory and building a career filled with new opportunities, higher income, and long-term stability. The conversation dives into how dental assistants can break through salary ceilings, discover career paths they may have never considered, and turn their existing skills into powerful tools for advancement. From roles in sales, compliance, and DSOs to opportunities in speaking, writing, podcasting, and treatment plan presentation, you'll hear exactly how assistants can transform their careers while still making a lasting impact in dentistry. This episode is full of inspiration and practical advice for any dental assistant who's ready to earn more, grow professionally, and discover what's possible beyond the chair. —------------------------ Have you ever wondered what career opportunities in dentistry exist beyond clinical care? Whether you're a dentist, hygienist, assistant, or manager, this full-day, in-person workshop is your chance to explore new paths in speaking, coaching, consulting, and more. Join Teresa and Angela on March 6th 2026 in Northern Virginia. Limited to just 20 attendees. Registration is open. Secure your spot today:

In this episode of The Lifestyle Practice Podcast, Dr. Derek Williams breaks down exactly how he sold his dental practice without a broker—what he did, why he did it, and what he'd change. Derek covers building a bank-ready prospectus (financials, KPIs, payer mix), where and how he marketed the listing (FB groups, classifieds, ADA Marketplace), keeping anonymity (NDAs, separate email), and running negotiations when you're representing yourself. He also compares private-dentist buyers vs. DSOs, talks timing (why not being in a rush matters), transition terms, real estate flexibility, and the role of a flat-fee attorney. Whether you're considering a DIY sale or debating a broker, you'll leave with a clear framework and practical next steps. Connect with us: • Learn more about 1-on-1 coaching • Get access to TLP Academy • Suscribe to The Lifestyle Practice Podcast • Email Derek at derek@thelifestylepractice.com • Email Matt at matt@thelifestylepractice.com • Email Steve at steve@thelifestylepractice.com

Howard joins UNLV's Advanced General Dentistry Fall 2025 class to share straight talk on what life looks like after graduation. From the impact of AI on dentistry, to the myths and realities of DSOs, to why private practice is still a strong path. This episode is packed with advice for new dentists!   A special thanks to Dr. Karen Kucharski for facilitating the discussion!    Want Howard to lecture your class for free? Email him at howard@dentaltown.com Join Dentaltown.com today and discuss great dentistry with great dentists!

In this episode of the Less Insurance Dependence Podcast, dental finance expert Ken Kaufman explains how financial clarity is the foundation for reducing PPO reliance and building long-term success. He shares practical strategies for forecasting, cash flow planning, and creating systems that give dentists the confidence to make bold decisions. From lessons learned working with DSOs to step-by-step advice on moving from bookkeeping to accrual accounting, Ken breaks down how any dentist can strengthen their practice and thrive independently Book your free marketing strategy meeting with Ekwa at your convenience. Plus, at the end of the session, get a free analysis report to find out where your practice stands online. It's our gift to you! https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/marketing-strategy-meeting/   If you're looking to boost your case acceptance rates and enhance patient communication, you can schedule a Coaching Strategy Meeting with Gary Takacs. With his experience in helping practices thrive, Gary will work with you on personalized coaching, ensuring you and your team are prepared to present treatment plans confidently, offer financing options, and communicate the value of essential dental services. https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/csm/  

Every year, I attend Converge, the annual conference of the National Association of Dental Plans (NADP). It's where I explore the latest issues and challenges faced by carriers and providers. I've watched the evolving partnerships between carriers and DSOs and observed the increase in network leasing concerns, I wanted to share my observations with you. I listened to compliance updates, discussed the expanding role of Medicare Advantage, and other issues shaping the future of dental coverage. What am I sharing? My thoughts on the amount of audits and fraud in our industry. Are you at risk? Multi-factor authentication is becoming a priority for both small practices and large DSOs. Plus, I'll highlight the questions to ask before outsourcing billing or revenue cycle management in today's third-party–driven market. Let me know if you like this kind of reporting. It was a lot more fun than I expected!  Resources & Links: NADP – The National Association of Dental Plans, representing dental insurers and advocating for better dental benefits. https://www.nadp.org/ Unify Dental – A platform helping DSOs and practices streamline operations and improve efficiency. https://www.unify.dental/ Cotiviti – A leading analytics and payment accuracy company serving healthcare and dental organizations. https://www.cotiviti.com/ Fluent Dental – A technology-driven solution for simplifying dental revenue cycle management. https://fluent.dental/ Connect with Teresa   Website: https://www.odysseymgmt.com/ Email: teresa@odysseymgmt.com Instagram: treeduncan Facebook: Odyssey Management Dental Speaking & Consulting LinkedIn: Teresa Duncan, MS   ------------- Beyond the Operatory Career Workshop: Have you ever wondered what career opportunities in dentistry exist beyond clinical care? Whether you're a dentist, hygienist, assistant, or manager, this full-day, in-person workshop is your chance to explore new paths in speaking, coaching, consulting, and more. Join Teresa and Angela on March 6th 2026  in Northern Virginia. Limited to just 20 attendees. Registration is open. Secure your spot today:

On this episode of The Dentist Money Show, Logan Ganoe, DDS, MS joins Ryan to talk about his remarkable journey through dentistry and life. From early career decisions and the challenges of dental school to navigating contracts, DSOs, and the path to oral surgery, Logan shares professional experiences that shaped him. He also opens up about the challenges he faced after a cancer diagnosis and obstacles of parenthood. Logan reflects on the power of resilience, the value of financial preparedness, and the importance of  prioritizing family and meaningful experiences over material success. Tune in to hear how Logan's journey demonstrates how life's toughest challenges can lead to meaningful growth. Book a free consultation with a CFP® advisor who only works with dentists. Get an objective financial assessment and learn how Dentist Advisors can help you live your rich life.

In this episode, Mark Brodson, President and Managing Broker of Resource Commercial Advisors, shares how his firm helps healthcare providers, including DSOs and direct primary care practices, navigate real estate from site selection to lease management.

In this episode, Mark Brodson, President and Managing Broker of Resource Commercial Advisors, shares how his firm helps healthcare providers, including DSOs and direct primary care practices, navigate real estate from site selection to lease management.

In this episode, Mark Brodson, President and Managing Broker of Resource Commercial Advisors, shares how his firm helps healthcare providers, including DSOs and direct primary care practices, navigate real estate from site selection to lease management.

Kiera is joined by Dr. Hunter Bennett of Bonita Endodontics to dive into the ins and outs of dentistry partnerships, including hiring for passion, splitting tasks, going DSO, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am like beyond excited for this podcast. This is all of my worlds combining into one in such a beautiful, magical way. The guests that I have on today actually is a throwback to my Midwestern days. So I met Dr. Hunter Bennett at Midwestern when he was a pre-dentist ⁓ in the sim clinic of good old Midwestern University in Arizona. ⁓ That school is better known as the Harvard of the West and Hunter was a dental student there.   And then he went on for endo residency at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in 2017. Following his residency, he returned to Arizona and practice in the mountain town of Prescott for two years. In 2019, he moved his family across the country all the way over to Florida. He is married to his beautiful wife, Lacey. They have five kids from 12 to seven months old, 12 years old to seven months old. Hunter is busy. And the reason I wanted to Hunter on is because yes, I love a good throwback to Midwestern. Like it is truly the highlight of highlights, but Hunter has gone through   being an associate, being an owner, selling to a DSO. And I wanted him to come on and give perspectives of all of those, because I think so many dentists are questioning, what's my path? What's in front of me? And Hunter is kind of like, I feel like you're the buffet of dentistry. So like, which one was actually best for you? And I'm really excited for that. So Hunter, welcome. I'm so proud of who you are. I'm like, mama bear heart over here. Just so proud of you. Welcome to the show today. How are you?   Hunter Bennett (01:25) this is so good. I'm so excited. I love the buffet of dentistry. That's like maybe the nicest name anybody's ever given me. I love it. It's so good.   The Dental A Team (01:31) Hey, you're welcome.   You're welcome. And how fun is this? As we were like prepping, told you, was like, Hunter, it's just like you and me, Sim back in Sim clinic. Like we're over there. Like you're prepping your like class ones, classes. I still remember you walking up with loops, gloves on. You knew I'd smack you with a ruler. Like not really smack guys. I was nice in that. But if those gloves did not come up at Sim, like take those off. Kiera, come on. Do I really have to? Yeah, gross. I'm training you. Do not have cross contamination. So welcome back to Sim. It's so good to see you again.   Hunter Bennett (01:59) I   haven't forgotten that I changed my gloves just literally all the time all the time so I appreciate it. It's how this has come full circle though truly I mean like and you haven't changed like you're still the same person just awesome and you're just always that bright personality that bright in the lab so and it's cool just to see how far you've come I'm really proud of you it's awesome.   The Dental A Team (02:19) Thank you, thank you. I think it's serendipitous because the whole reason I built the company was for students like yourself. I think the love, I feel like emotions coming on and I don't wanna cry. Like I genuinely just love the Midwestern students so much. I like just so proud of you guys. I watched your journeys. mean, shoot, how long has it been since we graduated? Like I left Midwestern in shoot, like 2015, 2016 realm.   Hunter Bennett (02:44) That's where   I was. I think you got hired like when we got there. I think that that was your first year was my first year in the sim. And then you, I think you left with us too. So yeah, we kind of went to dental. We basically went to dental school together essentially. So yeah, you're basically a classmate. Yeah. 100%.   The Dental A Team (02:47) I did.   I think I did.   We did and helping you guys learn x-rays. Honestly, Dr. Smith   and Dr. Morrow did tell me that I care if you ever want to come to dental school, we don't even care. I didn't like confess this on like to the world. They didn't say all these words, but it basically was like, hey, we don't care what your death scores are. Like we'll accept you no matter what. I'll be that student. But then I decided I just love helping dentists. I love helping you guys. I love being that teammate to you. Like I was able to be in sim. I love seeing you succeed. I love being that support.   Hunter Bennett (03:06) Yeah, they won't care. They won't care.   Just get in. ⁓   The Dental A Team (03:23) that person that's there. Like when you're having those bad practicals or you need to chat shop or whatever it is. it's just real fun. And again, like mama bear proud of where you are and what you've done. and I ran into each other at the Dennis Money Summit together. And that was a throwback. You, Jeremy Mahoney, was like Midwestern crew was back together and just a fun time.   Hunter Bennett (03:28) Yeah.   You don't even, you   don't realize how huge our little side conversations were to me. And I texted you a little bit about this, but like, we don't have to get into all of that, but like just those few conversations literally changed my life. And I'm not exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating. So we can talk about that later, but ⁓ yeah, I so appreciate you and some of your insights and watching your journey and your presentation was just so off the charts.   The Dental A Team (04:03) Yeah. ⁓   Hunter Bennett (04:10) Everything about it was so good. Your stage presence, the delivery, ⁓ the message. I still can remember a lot of the stuff you said. So, ⁓ yeah, good job. It's just, I'm not surprised you are where you are. And like I said, it's been fun to watch and I'm just grateful for the opportunity to connect again. So, but yeah, you literally was life-changing for me. I'm not exaggerating.   The Dental A Team (04:18) Thank you. Thank you.   Well, that makes me really happy. And thank you. And we'll say that that's the dessert of the dentistry buffet here. So we'll save that conversation for our dessert. ⁓ But I think what you just said is what Dental A Team's purpose is like my purpose is life is my passion dentistry is my platform. And so I feel so blessed and lucky that dentistry brought all of us together and but able to help you have your dream life to be able to give conversations about that.   Hunter Bennett (04:34) Okay.   Sure.   The Dental A Team (04:56) At the end of the day, if businesses aren't serving our lives, then what are we doing? And I'm really getting sticky on that. I'm really starting to hunker down on that harder because I think it's so easy to obsess about the profit, the numbers, like what route should I go? But at the end of the day, if it's not serving the bigger purpose of our life, of our family, of who we want to be, I really think it's a good time to question that and to ask to make sure the star we're headed towards is truly the North Star that we actually want to achieve.   Hunter Bennett (05:01) percent.   The Dental A Team (05:23) So I'm really grateful and yeah, I'm just excited for you to share with our audience of Hunter Bennett going through a associateship, residency, ownership, DSO, and then cherry on top of side conversation that we had. ⁓ and just know that all conversations, I think it's a good Testament. They're just, they're genuine. Like, I just want you guys to succeed in whatever path that looks like. And if I can be a guide in any of that rock on, that's what I'm here for. So just like I used to give you teeth.   help you learn to take your gloves off. I'm here to help you make life choices and better practice decisions too.   Hunter Bennett (05:58) Absolutely. You're crushing it. Well, so yeah, yeah. Pros and cons. So I think, you know, before diving into that decision, I think it's really important. Like the big part of my journey was I've just learned so much along the way that my first job was in a place where in Prescott, like that's where I wanted to like, was like, okay, this is, I'm going to be in this town until I die. Like I'm so happy here.   The Dental A Team (06:00) Okay, take it away. Walk me through. Walk me through the pros cons. Let's hear about it.   Hunter Bennett (06:24) And I was in an amazing practice. Like he was such a good practice. the guy that I replaced, ⁓ Nate Duesnup, he, my coming there sort of sparked his leaving because that he had been trying to get in that practice as an owner for quite a while. He'd been there seven years. so my coming sparked a lot of those conversations and they didn't really come to an agreement per se. so ⁓ Nate went and bought a practice in Florida. I, you know, I kind of found that out along the way and I showed up and then me and Nate became friends.   But I knew within probably the first two months I wasn't going to stay at this practice like long, long, long term. Um, it was very clear to me that there wasn't going to be a pathway to partnership. I was a business major. I always planned on owning practice. Um, but this was a really good opportunity. I'm really, really grateful for, um, just that, that chance that I had, but I knew immediately, like I wasn't, um, I wasn't seen as a partner, you know, which is very like, wasn't, I was just an associate and I felt like I just had way more to offer.   The Dental A Team (06:59) you   Hunter Bennett (07:22) I was, I was probably as much of a gung ho person as, as you can be coming out of residency as far as trying to be an owner. ⁓ but I was willing to like sort of sweat my way in if that's what it took just to be where I, where I wanted to live. ⁓ so long story short, like I learned pretty quickly that wasn't going to happen. So started just taking a bunch of CE, ⁓ traveling and then became good friends with Nate. Nate's like, Hey, just come check out Florida, you know? And, ⁓ so yeah, I went out there and, and, ⁓   The Dental A Team (07:35) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (07:52) If I've ever had a prayer answered as clearly as that, that was it. I mean, was, was clear as day. That's where my family was supposed to be. I actually served a mission for my church in Florida. I never planned to go back. ⁓ And that's ⁓ Tampa. So they actually, yeah, it was inside my mission, but I live in Naples and so didn't spend a ton of time in Naples, but yeah. So anyways. ⁓   The Dental A Team (08:03) No way. Same place?   Yeah?   I know Naples. I consulted a practice in Naples.   It's a beautiful place. Yeah, it's awesome.   Hunter Bennett (08:16) Yeah, yeah.   It's a, it's an awesome place and, ⁓ coming here was, it was definitely not like what I envisioned, but the practice was and the partnership was, and we experienced just like when I got here, he had bought the practice and the old owner was staying on like 50 % of the time and Nate was just grinding, you know, expanded the office. He had already done a lot of the footwork to get us to seven ops and.   We grew so fast, like we tried to find associates, like within my first six months, I didn't even bought in yet. We were already interviewing for associates and we couldn't find anybody that we just really wanted to send offers to. But yet we were just like in the chair all day. And I'm sure you hear this all the time. Like, I'm sure you get this all the time, Cary. It's like just grinding and grinding and then like you get done and then you're dealing with, you know, assistance and days off and they want to raise and, and just drama.   The Dental A Team (09:01) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (09:12) Taxes, know workers comp I mean you name it like all the things that come after work that are so stressful and Having a young family and and then just like like responsibilities outside of work like, know for us like there's a lot of stuff going on at church ⁓ At home. I was coaching my kids. So again, I think a lot of people that are listening can relate to this lifestyle and I think   The Dental A Team (09:14) Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (09:36) I as as I prepped for this conversation, we had a couple options. One option was to bring in a consultant, which we had thought about, and we already because we both came from the same practice in Arizona that had used a consultant, we felt like we sorta. We already knew how to be efficient. We already had a ton of systems in place. I think we struggled a little bit culturally. And I think frankly, this isn't a. You didn't put me up to this, but like had we hired someone like you like honestly, we may not have gone to DSO route. Frankly, like.   The Dental A Team (09:50) Yeah.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (10:05) Cause all the things we were struggling with, think could have been dealt with in a different way. But we saw the DSO route as, as an option, you know, um, and there's, mean, we went back and forth and like, that's all we would talk about. We'd get done and then we talked about it for like an hour and then we'd go in cycles and circles. And this is the pro, this is the con. And ultimately we landed on, you know, um, this is just a really good way to sort of bring some balance in our lives. And I'll be honest with you. I, I hated, hated.   The Dental A Team (10:10) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (10:35) hated like the first six months, the transition period for us was particularly hard. We have a very unique practice. But I'm in almost four years now, and I will say like, I feel like it all happened for a reason. And it's really allowed me a ton of flexibility in my life, and my lifestyle has improved a ton. So kind of what you described as sort of your purpose and letting people   The Dental A Team (10:40) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (11:03) kind of see like what is your North Star? Like what is your real purpose? ⁓ I don't think that would have been, I don't think I would have been able to discover that had I continued on the path that I was on, honestly. So a DSO I think is good. First of all, when you talk about like a DSO, it's like a swear word, right? Because there's so many types of DSOs and there are some bad players out there for sure. And so like deservedly so, there's a lot of companies that should have a bad name, but there's also some really good ones.   The Dental A Team (11:14) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (11:33) And that was one   thing, like we interviewed around and we met with a lot of different groups and talked to people from different groups. And I think there's a lot of good groups out there, but I'm actually quite happy with our group overall. And it's been four years and I will say like a lot of the turmoil I felt in that first six months was just the change, know, the change in trajectory, like giving up. I still run my practice. The thing is like, no one knows that I'm in a DSO. Like people know like my referring doctors now, but like they don't care.   The Dental A Team (11:44) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (11:59) Because nothing changes like nothing I run the way I want to run it and that's very unique to my group. I would say we hire we fire we make days off like we do pretty much anything we want we bought you know, we can get equipment so I Feel like my day-to-day really hasn't changed and I know that's not true for every DSO I think DSOs can be compared to like like restaurants for example. It's like ⁓ don't go out to eat because it's not healthy It's like well, I mean generally speaking probably true, but there are some healthy options out there   The Dental A Team (12:00) Right.   Mm-hmm.   Totally.   Right.   Hunter Bennett (12:29) And   ⁓ that's kind of how I see DSOs is like I do think there are some healthy options out there and it totally depends on personality. So. ⁓ I will say like the pros for me so far and you can ask me like maybe some more specifics, but yeah, yeah, so I'm so. Yeah, like that's that's just the general story, but I will say like you know this far in like that's kind of the general gist of my experience and if I could do it all over again, I I probably would. ⁓   The Dental A Team (12:37) Mm-hmm.   I'm going to ask some questions. I'm like plunging behind. I've got a decent amount. I'm excited for it.   Hunter Bennett (13:00) I say though, like I am very curious to see what it would have been like to have hired, you know, like to bring you in and just say like, all right, come in here. And a couple of my assistants were like, don't bring the consultant, don't hire a consultant. And I don't think that really influenced me as much as I felt like, honestly, I just felt like I didn't need one, but looking back now, I think that definitely would have been a really good option. So I think you either go the DSO route or you bring someone in. But again, I talked to dentists, I work with a bunch of different dentists. I talked to a bunch of guys all the time, every day.   The Dental A Team (13:08) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (13:30) And they haven't had such good experiences with consultants either. So I'm sure you'd get the same thing, you know, but.   The Dental A Team (13:33) I do. That's   one of my first questions when I walk into an office. Tell me what you think about consultants and it's a rip. And I want them to, because why not? Like let's get it on the table. And I think, I think the difference with us consulting versus others, because consultants are going to be there's good and bad, just like there are of DSOs, just like there are of marketing, which is like there is a people. I think the difference is one,   Hunter Bennett (13:39) Yeah, yeah, totally.   The Dental A Team (13:58) I come a team member first. So like my job is to help dentists and I'm a business owner and a multimillion dollar business owner second. And so when you combine those two perspectives together, I very much understand the business side of it. And it's not just theories and ideas. It's true, like hard knocks, ⁓ hundreds and thousands of offices and team members of what are the processes. But second, like I don't hire MBA students. I don't hire people that are just like,   you know, they, want to be a consultant. hire people that have a passion for it. They've been in the front and the back office. So I think teams, that's why I actually named it Dental A Team. want it to be dentists and teams because so many consulting companies either focus on the dentist or they focus on the team, but not both. I'm like, but you have to get both on the same page. And teams are freaked out by consultants. Consultants come in and fire. Consultants are stressful. Consultants are rigid. They make you do it this way. And my thoughts are no one, it's you with your vision.   Hunter Bennett (14:42) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (14:55) it's what do the numbers tell us and the profitability and three based on those two pieces, what are the systems that we need to improve based on like the problems in the practice too. And when you go about it that way and my job is to make life easier, not harder. I think when you go about it that way, teams are not as scared. And that's also why we built the podcast. So teams could hear us. They could learn like, what do we talk about? Because I think a lot of it's just the unknown. And so I, that's going to be like my two cents for a consultant, but I'm going to like back up for you Hunter on, have questions for you.   Hunter Bennett (15:24) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (15:25) I have question marks all the way around. One, think actually excellent point on the associateship and doctors listening, Hunter, you said you were a very equipped, very eager associate. You have a degree in business. I mean, you've got like the little gold star around you, a prime, ⁓ an associate prime for partnership that I think so many doctors are afraid and they don't know how to build partners in that they actually miss a lot of golden opportunities. And so   I like that was one of the nuggets I picked up from your story of like, I don't know who the doctor was and I'm not here to judge. They have their own story, their own reasons. But I think when doctors have great associates like yourself, you're destined to like, I know you're going to own a practice. When you come in with that type of acumen behind you, you're going to own a business. So either I can be smart and snag you and partner in with you and have you help me build and create it. Or I can let you go and you're either going to become my competitor or you're going to go somewhere else. And so there's no right or wrong.   but I think so many owner doctors, do see this. They're afraid bringing on a partner, you do like take home less pay. Like with air quotes, you get paid upfront, but you're like day in, day out is less. ⁓ But I really wanted to highlight that because I think like, well, it all worked out perfectly for you, Hunter. I think doctors listening to this could definitely learn from that. And it's okay if you don't want a partner. Some people are adamant of no partners. They don't want to give any of that up. They don't want to give away the control. That's okay. Don't hire someone like Hunter.   Or be okay that he's gonna probably leave you in about one to two years. And like any thoughts around that? They do.   Hunter Bennett (16:50) Yeah. I think everybody goes through that. Yeah. No, a   hundred. Like I have a ton of thoughts about that because it's, it's, I do, because I mean, I hear it all the time, like every week where Dennis is like, well, I'm just going to plug in an associate and then I'll just take some time off. it's like, that's not really how it works because you have to decide in like Jeremy Mooney, for example, like I talked to Jeremy all the time. He's one of my best friends and you sort of, I know it, I feel like every time I talk to him,   The Dental A Team (16:57) Talents.   Hunter Bennett (17:19) And he wouldn't mind me saying this, like just inevitably what happens is when someone doesn't buy in all the way or they just treat it like a job, like they come and go, you know, and that's, that's the price you pay. And so as a specialist, like we have to maintain relationships and referring offices. if associates are coming and going, that is such a, it's it's a rough look. And then for a dental practice, it's the same thing where patients, know, patients come to me they're like, I went to this practice and I saw the third doctor in my third visit, you know, and it's, they don't like that turnover.   And so what you make in money you pay for in stress and headache, I think on an associate, like when you're making money on your associate, not to mention all the headaches that come with training, reviews, stuff like that. ⁓ And so, yeah, I think ⁓ I totally see both sides of it. And the doctor that Nate and I both work for, he's got like four associates now and he's crushing it. So like, good for him. know, like that's, he's doing really, really well.   The Dental A Team (18:14) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (18:16) ⁓ Me and eight are like best friends and we have this relationship that like will be friends for life like he's like he doesn't have any brothers like I'm like his brother he's like my third brother, you know, it's just We just have this amazing relationship that I wouldn't trade for anything, you know, and not all partnerships are that way I think we've been super super blessed and super lucky that way but when both partners are both givers and you both want to just work hard and you have their back no matter what like you can find that man like   The Dental A Team (18:21) Mm-hmm.   Agreed.   Hunter Bennett (18:44) whatever money you give up by being a partner, you'll get back in like that, just sitting down at the end of the day and having someone to talk to that you're equal in business plan with, to take risks with, to, you know, even just to have like that comfort of talking to someone, you know, like you you get done with a tough day and just having that person there is, is priceless. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. So I wouldn't give up my partnership with Nate for anything, you know, and, and,   The Dental A Team (19:00) Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (19:09) Yeah, and and I think that's quite unique like in our DSO like no one really knows like we have like 400 partners I think now and Like when they think of Nate they think a Hunter or when they think a Hunter they think about Nate like we're just known like you usually don't see one without the other so to the doctors out there that own if you can find someone like that or someone even remotely close like man and someone that's gonna stay long-term like you eliminate so much stress and so many headaches by being open to having a partner and then if you have associates that might come and go   The Dental A Team (19:20) Awesome.   Hunter Bennett (19:38) And you want, you have the space and the availability and you want to do that, that's an option. But if you feel like you're drowning and you can find someone that's a really good business partner, I definitely see the value. Cause Nate and I, spent the better part of two years looking for associates to work for us. And again, it's that whole thing of like, well, man, I don't think they're going to be, I don't think they're going to have the personality that we need. But you know, then you hire, then you interview the really good ones. You're like, well, they're going to want to be a partner so we can't hire them. So you're just always playing that game of like.   There is no perfect answer. You know, you don't, you don't have like a unicorn associate that's just, and maybe there are a few where they just are just a total 10 out of 10, but then they just don't want to own. just want to show up. So it's pretty rare. They will. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (20:17) Totally. And some will. It is.   But okay, that actually led me to my next point I wanted to dig into because partnerships, some are magical like you guys have and others sink ships. So I want to hear how did you get into the partnership? Like what, what does that look like? How much did you both bring? Like as much as you want to get into the nitty gritty with me, because I think partnerships are so challenging to do well and to hear that you and Nate have a great thing. So I'm almost like, okay,   Hunter Bennett (20:24) Yeah.   Yeah, totally.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (20:46) There were some tips about associateships and bring us and I agree like, welcome down, like have these people with you. They're going to grow your business. I could not do a Dental A Team does without incredible consultants. And while none of them are partners per se, a lot of them, I've given them opportunities to do different pieces, tip from the get-go. We talked about, offered her to be a partner. She's like, heck no, I want nothing to do with that, but give me my time and give me my life with my child and girl I'm with you forever. So get read, there are different things, but I mean,   Did I give up money when I first brought in all these other consultants to help out? The answer is yes. But I look at it now and it actually like makes me so giddy to see there are so many practices we're impacting that me as a solo person could not serve at that level. So that's, think the beauty of like, yes, there's a dip, but there's also growth in and serving that you can do at a higher level. So with that said on associates, now we're moving into partnerships. Walk me through Hunter. I want to know the like ins, outs, good, bad, like partnerships. I'm sure you guys have had.   some knockout drag outs. I'm sure you guys have had highs and lows in partnerships. I'm sure you like, but I'm curious, like, how did you guys structure it to make it great for both of you? And then I'm to go into DSO. So I want to know partnership though, because like, it's my buffet. I'm choosing an associate now buying and being partners in DSO.   Hunter Bennett (21:57) Yeah.   Yeah,   yeah, for sure. think the key was ⁓ for me and Nate, like we're both givers. And so, you know, we never have fought over money. you know, there's just never, we've just been lucky to not have that. We're very similar because we kind of cut our teeth in the same practice. We had the same philosophy too. Like just we're very, very efficient. both work super, super hard.   The Dental A Team (22:25) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (22:26) So we're both hard drivers that way. We're both very perfectionistic Like we we both do the same type of root canals like we we kind of have the same treatment philosophy, you know, ⁓ And granted he's seven years older than me So like Nate you I have to give him a ton of credit because he's just been super helpful clinically and like I felt like after years like I was actually I wasn't at my prime prime for sure But like I was I was I was cooking I was doing pretty good and he helped bring me up to where I am   The Dental A Team (22:50) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (22:53) Now, you know, I've been here like seven years now, but like that first year, like he still just helped me, you know, deal with some of the tougher cases. Naples is just a place that tough cases. But the thing that, thing, yeah, it's old people, retired, calcified, whatever stuff from Europe. That's like totally, totally crazy. But ⁓ he was just so patient. And so just, man, he was just so happy to have me here. Cause he was like, he was burning out. Like he was so tired. And so he was just grateful I was here. He always told me that.   The Dental A Team (23:01) Right? is. It's a good place for business.   Hunter Bennett (23:20) The way we structured it. I worked for him for a year and I was supposed to buy in after the first year, but COVID had hit. so banks weren't like, they were like, hold on, chill out. Like it was literally like March I was supposed to buy in. And so like, you know, we were like, me and him were like alternating days and like, you know, like sharing N95s cause that's all we had. And I mean, that's a whole nother thing. So that delayed the buy-in like six months. And during that time, like, yeah. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:27) ⁓ huh.   Yeah.   And hold on, before you go to that, when you moved out there, was it part of   your contract and agreement that you were going to buy in in a year? Was it 50-50? Were those things like in place? Were those like in your contract? Okay.   Hunter Bennett (23:51) Yeah, one year. Yeah, yeah, it was all agreed to.   And you know, I actually don't know if it was in, so the thing was like, when I was in Prescott, I went to the same church that Nate had gone to, like I went to the same congregation. So everybody that knew him just absolutely loved him. Like he was like the cream of the crop. Everybody was just like, you know, like I felt like I was partnering with like, you know, just this.   The Dental A Team (24:10) Mm.   Hunter Bennett (24:18) Completely amazing person which he is so I had no doubts. Yeah, it's like the Michael Jordan like not even I don't even know like analogy would be like Muhammad Gandhi like he was like just such this Just a good dude, you know and so I didn't have a lot of reservations as far as our agreements go and then just again, maybe not the smartest thing but like I don't know it may have been in the writing but I don't really remember and I wasn't that worried about it because I guess naively I trusted him and just felt like it would work out but this was all verbally agreed to   The Dental A Team (24:18) Michael Jordan of dentists.   Wow.   Because I do know for some people   like some people have it's the verbal agreement. I'm sure   Hunter Bennett (24:47) I would, mean, he would have been willing to, he would have been willing   to, and maybe it was, like it might have been in our first contract. I had David Cohen write it up, I had to go back and look, but he did our partnership agreement too. He's awesome for anybody that needs an attorney, but yeah, I've sent him a ton of people. But that was the thing, like we had all that agreed to, then the other conversation that I know a lot of people don't have, and a lot of people hold resentment about is how you're gonna   The Dental A Team (25:00) We do love David Cohen. We refer to him quite a lot.   Hunter Bennett (25:17) split profits. And so we decided early on, it's like, eat what you kill. Like if you do, so the way I did it, I, we, sort of calculated a rough guesstimation of what our overhead was. And then we gave ourselves like, we would do, okay, you get this percentage. We each get this percentage of our production. And then let's say it was like 45, 55, then we split the profits that same way. Whatever's leftover, we're going to split by that same amount. And frankly, like, I don't think we were ever correct.   The Dental A Team (25:18) Totally.   Mm-hmm.   by the amount that you produced? Is that correct? So,   okay.   Hunter Bennett (25:45) collected. we're   fever like our collection is same as product like we're yeah, so it's the same number but Yeah   The Dental A Team (25:50) Right. So sorry, let me back this up. So you guys go produce   and let's just use numbers. Usually in GP, it's 30 % of what you produce. Usually in specialty, you're like 40, 45 % of what you produce. Like let's just use some like loose numbers, hypothetical.   Hunter Bennett (26:03) Sure.   The Dental A Team (26:04) Nate, you produce, you're welcome. We've got this. So let's just say you produce 100 grand in a month. Nate produces 100 grand in a month. Let's say you guys are both taking 30 % your specialist. So giggle at me because I know you're not 30%. You both would be taking 30 grand of that leaving. We've got 70 from each of you, but we have overhead in that as well. So we've got to take our overhead out of there. So we've got 70, 70 hypothetical we're going to take. Let's just do let's leave at the end there's 60,000.   Hunter Bennett (26:21) Yep. Yep.   Yep. Yep.   Say 50.   The Dental A Team (26:33) 60,000 of profit   Hunter Bennett (26:34) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (26:34) at the end of it after you guys have produced 200,000, collected 200,000, you both have been paid your 30,000 each. Of that 60,000, how was that split? Was that a 50-50 split or was it based on like, let's say you produced 100 grand, but Nate produced 200 grand. Did the 60,000 at the end get split based on production amounts or was that like, how was the profit split?   Hunter Bennett (26:54) Correct.   Yeah, so we would just split the profit exactly like you described in the latter example where it's based on what you produced that month or collected that month, then we would split the profits that month. And I just had a spreadsheet, I did all the math. And so we would just work it out between the two of us. And we never had an issue. I would just plug it and just plug and chug and it was never an issue. And truly like...   The Dental A Team (27:09) Nice.   Hunter Bennett (27:19) We were never more than like 52 48, you know, that might've been like, ⁓ you know, I don't remember a month ever being off by more than 2 % or 4%. So it really wasn't a big battle. And one thing too, that I told Nate going into this, and this was for me, I had to just like, was president of like my business school, like my junior year president of the whole business school, like the vice president of all business school, my senior year, like   The Dental A Team (27:23) Thank you.   interesting.   Hunter Bennett (27:45) I was used to being leadership positions. I was used to sort of being in charge. But I knew coming here, he was there first. And I told him, was like, I know you're going to be the alpha. All the referrals know you. I'm just going to have to take that backseat role. And I think me just acknowledging that and accepting that was so important because I had no ego. I didn't have to prove that there was no competition between me and Nate. We were 100 % on the same team.   The Dental A Team (27:56) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (28:12) ⁓ Again, and maybe that's unique to a specialty practice because you're kind of working together maybe more than you would in a GP office. I don't know. ⁓ Or maybe you're competing for patients a little more. I'm not sure. I've never worked in a GP office. But the dynamics for us is like, we're just, there's like all the referrals. It doesn't matter which doctor you want. Like you're getting your next available doctor unless there's a few exceptions. So we were very good about having no egos. And that was really important to our partnership too. But   financially it was quite easy for us and convenient just because our numbers were pretty similar. Or if he took a couple weeks off, then obviously he'll still get his collections from that month, but then I would get a little bit bigger chunk of the profit. But then when I took my time off the next month, they would just work itself out. so, ⁓ and he was always, like I said, he was always at the end of the year, Nate always produces just a little more than me. And I was just okay with it. You know, I was like, whatever, hang on.   The Dental A Team (28:46) Mm-hmm.   Sure.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (29:06) And this I think is the desert that we can talk about later because how do we   The Dental A Team (29:07) Fascinating. Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (29:10) measure success? How do we measure fulfillment? And when we tie it to profits and numbers and income, it's just not super healthy. And I've had to learn that. Like that's probably been one of my biggest paradigm shifts over the last year, year and a half and sparked by your presentation and the conversations that we had. So.   The Dental A Team (29:27) Well, that's fascinating to me and thank you. That's a huge compliment. ⁓ I'm fascinated by that partnership split and the fact that you both were eat what you kill. I actually love that because then you got two very motivated partners. Also, you don't accidentally get one partner who's not pulling their weight. I know a lot of times ⁓ and I think the difference that I sometimes see in GP versus specialty is sometimes I have a super producer in GP.   So one who's doing hybrid and implants and all these different cases. And then I've got another doctor who's doing bread and butter. Well, obviously the super producer is going to produce more, but you need the bread and butter dentist to be taking care of all those profie patients and all the day in day out. So you can super produce. So those ones, often will see that it's more going to be a 50 50 split, but I do oftentimes see the super producer gets a little annoyed because they're like, if they're not both givers.   ⁓ I've seen this wax hard on partnerships just in the fact of you look at the numbers and what are you putting up on the board? But I think those partners really have to look at this. It's the ultimate whole. And if the ultimate whole of the business is doing well, both parties are winning. And they have to just see that they bring different strengths to the table, just like in a marriage. And we're not looking at dollars on the board. We're looking at collective as a practice. But that is one where I do watch. And so I do think in specialty, that might be something I had not thought of.   but I love to hear how you guys broke it down, how you picked it apart. And also the fact that there was no ego on taking a patient. Cause I do sometimes see that in partnerships where, if I'm going to get what I kill, I want more of these patients. I want to take them on because that's going to impact my production. But at the end of the day, you guys are still doing well on the profit side. So fascinating to me to hear how it was set up, how you guys got into it, how the buy-in was, ⁓ and then moving forward. And I'm guessing Hunter, I don't know Nate.   Hunter Bennett (31:01) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (31:18) But I'm excited. I mean, I have a quote over here by Gandhi. So when you said that I was like, well, perfect. ⁓ But my hunch is typically in a partnership, I see someone who's like yourself, who's really big into business, like they know the numbers, they have the business acumen. And usually the other partner tends to be more of the people side or this is like, you usually have a separation. So I again, I don't know Nate, but my guess would be not to say that you're not great with team members to   but I'm guessing you're very business savvy, you're very system savvy, and he's gonna be more people savvy and relationship savvy. Again, I don't know, maybe both of you had that, but I'm curious, did you see that dynamic in your partnership that maybe blended you guys really well coming together?   Hunter Bennett (31:54) Yeah, no, that's a really good point and we do compliment it. You're pretty much spot on. would say Nate definitely like is a lot more of a calming, know, I'm kind of like people tell me I'm just fiery, you know, like we've had different.   The Dental A Team (32:07) You   I do remember you walking   up. You wouldn't even shut your light off on me. Like you were busy. You were down to business. Like, here, I need these things in the most respectful way. ⁓   Hunter Bennett (32:14) Yeah, I'm   Pretty pretty focused. Yeah, pretty focused I would say and so I would say there is that little bit of balance But Nate's not a dummy like he was harvard number two in his class at harvard like he's super smart and so He would always lean into me for the business stuff just because I had a degree and I could speak the language and accounting and depreciation and all you know, like that stuff I think sort of intimidated him more than it needed to because once you explain it, know, you know But because he hadn't trained that way like he would sort of lean into me and that stuff   The Dental A Team (32:33) or.   Right.   Hunter Bennett (32:43) But even having someone to talk about because he'd already dealt with the accountant. He already dealt with workers comp. So I'd be like, hey, how does this work? Cause I'd never done it. So he'd explain it to me. And then as a team, we would work it out. You know, as a team, we would make big decisions. So yeah, I mean, you'll both bring different things to the table. And it's actually good that you can be different. I had another opportunity to partner somewhere else before Nate. I was way too much like that guy. I was like.   The Dental A Team (32:49) Thank   Yes.   Hunter Bennett (33:10) This isn't gonna work. I knew right away like I said, you know I went and visited the practice did the whole thing sent like a follow-up email and I think we both knew it's just like yes, isn't gonna work and The negotiations didn't go very far and it was fun. It was like we're still friends and we keep in touch So I think it's important to like you think ⁓ we're so alike man That's not always like the best thing. And so our differences are actually probably what what bring us together and make us strong ⁓   The Dental A Team (33:19) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   No.   Hunter Bennett (33:37) Yeah. And so that's, that's like a, that's a super fair point about that. And again, a lot of it's just been serendipitous. Like that just happened to fall into place. It just, it's just worked out that way, but it's, it's like a marriage. That's the perfect thing. It's like, it's like a marriage without all the benefits per se. Like you just, you're just like, you're just, you just get the hard part of them. Yeah. You just get the hard, you get the hard part of the marriage where you have tough conversations, but again, you just take them head on. And when you have no ego and, or a limited ego, and when you just want your partner to succeed, like   The Dental A Team (33:38) Yeah.   You get the profits benefit.   Hunter Bennett (34:08) You can't really fail in my opinion. ⁓ even when it came to like negotiate, like I had six months of partnership income that I was missing out on, but then there's the COVID thing. And, at the end of the day, said, Nate, like what number, like what, what, what do want me to do the whole valuation? I didn't really care. I was willing to pay whatever I didn't. To me, the relationship was way more important than any number. And so we just came to a number that we both felt good about based on the valuation, but I was flexible and frankly, I didn't care because it was so important to me. And, ⁓   The Dental A Team (34:09) That's awesome.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (34:37) And we came to what we thought both was fair and it's been, it's been a dream. you know, and those, we're like best friends and those conversations can still be a little awkward and a little hard, but they don't have to be. And they, they were always fine. You know, um, if there's a book I could recommend, talk about it all the time. It's Crucial Conversations. Um, one of my favorite books of all time. think everybody should read it before you get married. You should read it like in college. Like I think it should be required reading before you graduate college.   The Dental A Team (34:50) Right.   Hunter Bennett (35:04) But that's one book that's just helped me a ton. As a leader, business owner, as a partner, ⁓ husband, it's just helped me a ton.   The Dental A Team (35:05) Definitely agree.   I love that. I also love that you guys just, I think when you said like it just works and it was serendipitous, I think that's something to look for in a partnership. I think if anybody's looking at partners, if it's hard and it's just not flowing, don't force it to work. ⁓ The best partnerships I really do see where they kind of fall into place this way, they're aligned, you hire people that are complimentary to you, not just like you, because you do need the two halves to a whole.   Hunter Bennett (35:29) Hmm.   The Dental A Team (35:39) to make it really great. And then I think you guys have done a good job of keeping egos in check. think you guys, what you said Hunter, that I hope all partners listening to this or potential partners, you want your partner to succeed and that's your ultimate goal and that's what you're driving for. when Jason and I learned that in our marriage, where like my greatest success is Jason's success, it went from a like, what are you giving for me? And what am I getting out of this relationship to a like,   I want Jason to give me five stars because he's a raving fan because like I am, I'm doing all that I possibly can to make sure he's succeeding and his life is incredible. And when both partners are in that, it goes away from you and it goes to them and to make sure that they're succeeding. And I really do see that that works great in marriages, partnerships. So I'm obsessed with that. Kudos to you guys on that. I love that also Hunter, I hope people buying in.   the partnership and having that, I say the way you start a partnership is how you're going to end the partnership. I love Hunter that you came in as the quote unquote junior partner, but you, leveled yourself up to be an equal partner to him. And I'm really proud of you because I think a lot of associates are stay very timid. They say very junior. They act like they don't know anything rather than being like an equal partner. And I'm like, no, no, no, if you're going to be a partner in this, you need to be a partner and bring your weight. So kudos to you on that.   Hunter Bennett (36:49) Yeah.   Totally.   The Dental A Team (36:57) And then I also just really love that you guys have just had multiple conversations that you just have blended it so beautifully and that you said you were willing to pay whatever he wanted. Like, of course, you're going to be fair. You knew the numbers, but the partnership and the success was more important to you. And I think when you go into it and that's how you start your partnership, I can tell why you guys are actually really great partners. So great job and thanks for highlighting that. And now I want to know about selling to a DSO because I do agree. ⁓ Having a consultant.   oftentimes makes it where you don't have to sell to a DSO. And we do that sometimes. Sometimes I'll grow the practices for you and it's like, well, why would you sell to a DSO when they're just gonna come in and grow your business anyway? Like, let's do this on your own. I had a doctor who we were chatting and he's like, yeah, Kiera, they're gonna give me five mil for it. And I said, cool. Next year, you're probably gonna do five million on your own or within two years. So you can pay them out and they're just gonna do what you were already going to do. And agreed, a lot of that stress comes.   Hunter Bennett (37:36) Yeah.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (37:55) from that, but Hunter, you said something in the very beginning that struck me when you said you sold to the DSO. You said your life has exponentially gotten better. Your work life balance has gotten better since selling to the DSO, but you also said that you're doing pretty much all the same things you were doing as a business owner. So I'm super curious. How did your life get better while you're still doing, like you were like, I'm still hiring, I'm still firing. And I was like, so what was the perk of selling to a DSO and helped me understand how your life got better?   Hunter Bennett (38:19) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (38:23) And then I also want to know about your cell deal too, if you're open to that.   Hunter Bennett (38:27) Yeah, for sure. don't, um, I probably should have illustrated the point that it's not like we didn't just get overwhelmed and all of sudden decide, okay, we're not, we're just going to throw up our hands and sell. Like we had hired a different office manager who was like, went through like Gary Katas's training. Like, like she was phenomenal. She was amazing. In fact, like she was a lot like you in a lot of ways, just really great personality, new dentistry. And I thought she was going to change our lives, you know, and she is awesome. Like she's an amazing person.   But it didn't end up working out. She left the practice that was being transitioned to a new doctor. So she came with us for a few weeks and it was going okay. And then they had a big crisis back there and she's like, is it okay if I just go back and help for like a week? And we're like, yeah, do what you need to do, you know? And then that doctor offered her equity in his practice. And so she ended up staying there, whatever. Yeah, whatever, it is what it is. And so my point is, like, I feel like we tried a different office manager. We tried restructuring and we tried.   The Dental A Team (39:15) I mean, good deal.   Hunter Bennett (39:25) The only thing we didn't hire a consultant, we definitely talked about it, but we didn't, I think in some ways I was probably just a weak leader in that way where I was maybe a little bit too proud to just get the help that we probably needed and instead just went a different route, you know? And so hindsight's always 20-20, but that just to create a little bit of the background to the story though. So it's not like we just, you know, all of sudden decided, you know, we're gonna,   The Dental A Team (39:47) Of course.   Hunter Bennett (39:55) just sell. So we had done all this other footwork. Sorry, what did you want to know about like the structure of the deal or what? Yeah. Okay. So when we, so when we, you know, after having done all this, we kind of, we had interviewed all these doctors, we had one kind of in the holster, maybe you can associate and we were just like, we were interviewing people, but we was just so, we were just tired. It's just like when you're doing root canal, it's like from like seven to five and you don't even have time to use like the bathroom.   The Dental A Team (40:03) I do, I do want to know structure of the deal. Yeah, tell me it.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (40:25) get a drink of water. It's just, we just burned ourselves out because we were chasing something and I don't even think we, we just wanted to change growth. Like we just wanted to, we just wanted to grow. We just always said all the time, were just grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And so we just kept the pedal to the metal. Excuse me. And I would say we just sort of outgrew ourselves and not that the wheels ever fell off, but like the culture in our practice was okay. Like we had good people, but we did have some of the wrong people on the bus. ⁓   The Dental A Team (40:27) Yep.   Hunter Bennett (40:52) And so when we started talking to DSOs, they saw our numbers, they saw our trajectory and we knew we had a lot of leverage. It was 2021. So the market was just red hot. We got a really good evaluation. We got a really good multiple. they were, you know, and so, you know, I actually talked to Matt Molcock, you know, he's my advisor and, ⁓ and just, I talked to my mentors, Dr. Jones, like, you know, ⁓ just people that I really respect. He's the man he had started nine, nine different endo or worked in or started nine different practices and   The Dental A Team (40:59) I see. That is hot.   Mm-hmm.   Aw, Dr. John.   Hunter Bennett (41:19) And his advice to me was like, you know, like I would do it if I were you. And so a lot of people would just had kind of encouraged me. And so at that point, me and Nate said, you know, we, and we got opinions both ways. And at the end of the day, our conclusion was it doesn't matter. Like, if I'm being honest, like that was kind of our answer to a kind of a joint prayer was like, it's not going to matter. Like it just, doesn't matter which way you go with this. ⁓ for the things that are truly important, it's not going to matter what you do.   The Dental A Team (41:35) Agreed.   Hunter Bennett (41:46) And so we, we, we decided to do the deal and I will say, like I said, the first six months were rough, but to the credit of my, company, like the group that I'm with, like our team and the people that we work with, they're phenomenal. Like I've never like had a, they, they just always bend over backward to accommodate us and help us. And we've done our part. We've grown like crazy, you know, are there times where I'm like, man, we could have done this on our own and, ⁓ our   The Dental A Team (42:06) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (42:12) whatever, you know, and you look at your paycheck now because now I'm paid on a percentage and I have equity in the company. And so you're just waiting on a recap. And that's a whole, again, talking about, we can get into this too is DSOs have so many different types of structures. Ours is not like a joint venture. So we don't, we don't profit share in ours. It's all in our equity. so equity events are like super important for us. and so Scotty Hudson Smith is our CEO and he's the one that did smile docs. they, he's done it three times.   The Dental A Team (42:21) Yep.   They are.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (42:41) He came to our dinner like the night that they were recruiting us and he wasn't officially the CEO yet But like he was sliding in that role. It just hadn't been announced I think it was like the next week or something, but he came and he just sort of created the vision for us and we just honestly we a little bit of a feeling and sort of that answer like it's not gonna matter and Now looking back Are there days that are where I have resented like seeing what I produce versus what I take home sometimes?   But I've got to remember they give you five or six years of your profitability upfront. And I've been able to put all that to work, you know, for the most part, I've done pretty well with that. Like not like home run, like you, you know, it's not like crazy stuff, but it's fine. I'm diversified now. Um, it's not all in my practice, but I do have a bit still in equity quite a bit. we did a 70 30 split. did 70 % cash, 30 % equity in the group. Um, and I just,   The Dental A Team (43:09) Sure.   Sure.   Right.   Nice.   Hunter Bennett (43:36) Some groups will give you flexibility, some won't. That's just the number that we wanted and they agreed to. And looking back, I'm still glad I did it that way. I actually had an opportunity to buy more equity about a year in, which I did. And so I bought more. And so that allowed me to just be a little bit more leveraged into the company.   on a bigger scale, like me and Nate work real hard for each other, but now you just got all these partners that are counting on you. And I think the mojo and the culture in our group is quite good. So.   The Dental A Team (44:04) Yeah, that's it. That's actually really, really good to know because I think so many people wonder about DSOs. And so what did the DSO take off of you guys? Because I know there's some people that get scared of the equity. Like they get scared of equity because some DSOs have actually gone under. And so I actually love to hear that you were a 70-30 split, then you were able to buy in more if you wanted to, because if it goes under, that is your retirement. And so I love that you were able to put money into work so your retirement's not solely like   Hunter Bennett (44:12) Yeah, that's what you asked.   ⁓ Yeah.   The Dental A Team (44:31) vested into this company. I really am big on that when DSOs do purchase, but what did they take off your guys's plates going in as a DSO?   Hunter Bennett (44:31) Totally.   Yeah, sorry, that's what you asked me and I kind of got off track there, but...   The Dental A Team (44:40) That's okay. I wanted   the deal. I wanted the deal. I actually wanted to know that a lot.   Hunter Bennett (44:44) So we skipped to the deal,   but going back, like the thing that they've helped with the most, would say is like, just as an example, like, like, ⁓ there's like this employment tax, you know, that we'd always get these letters about every year with Florida and we'd call them and then I spent an hour on the phone, finally getting to someone. And then I had already canceled it, but then they automatically renewed it for it. And so it's just like, that's like one example, work, workman's comp. ⁓ even just like we had an office book for like policy.   And again, this might speak more to maybe my lack of strong leadership where when a team member says, well, I understand that's the policy, but this is what I have going on. And then when you bend the rules for one person, then it sort of just creates this culture of favoritism. And again, that was probably partly being a new owner and then a people pleaser. and something I've worked on a lot. And again, I'm not the same leader I was even five years ago, you know, four years ago when we sold, but, ⁓ having seen that now they, because there are just   The Dental A Team (45:34) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (45:40) company policies in place. And again, it might be a little maybe feel corporate, but now you sort of see the reason why things are corporate because otherwise people, if you run it like a small business and you do those little things here or there, all it does is create resentment within your team. And so ⁓ I will say just having a really, we've gone through like, man, we hired like two or three different office managers through the company that they helped us hire. And finally we hired internally and she's   The Dental A Team (45:53) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (46:09) man, she's phenomenal. she has just totally, she was at our front desk, she wasn't in dentistry, she came to the front desk and really for first couple of years she was pretty quiet. And then when we interviewed, we're like, we need to interview, are you interested? And she said, yeah, like I would. And she's absolutely just crushing it. And so she is a big reason because we finally, you know, like it's just a good fit for her, you know? And our old office manager is still with us and she's amazing, she's amazing. And she's just so humbly taking the role. She's she's like,   The Dental A Team (46:10) Amazing.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (46:37) just want to be in the front and she's the best front office person in the world. You know what I mean? And that's she didn't want to be an office manager and so it's kind of worked itself out and but I don't know if we would have made those decisions without being sort of forced into it with it with our structure in the corporate, you know in the corporate group. If I'm being honest, you know, there's a couple things like we were salary like we just paid our girls salary for example and so there was always sort of this resentment because here it's very seasonal.   The Dental A Team (46:39) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Totally.   Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (47:06) So during winter, like our population in Naples doubles. And so the girls are working more hours. So they might work 42. I don't know if I should say this is, I guess it doesn't matter because I don't do it anymore, but they might work 42 or 44 hours one week. But in the summer, they're probably working 32, 34, 36. Or I'd just say, go home or whatever. So over the year, it just worked out. so they came to us, like, you can't do that. And so was like, so then we had to switch to hourly, which I really resented in that first six months. I was so mad. But now looking at it, it's actually the   The Dental A Team (47:06) Right.   Right.   You   Hunter Bennett (47:35) It's actually the fair way to do it. You know, it actually makes sense. ⁓ they like our, always get.   The Dental A Team (47:38) It is. So it sounds like you just got a lot of like,   you got like a lot of company backing is what I feel like it is like the structure of a business. Yeah. Yep.   Hunter Bennett (47:44) Totally, it's just more structure, more structure. I didn't have to be the bad guy, I guess. I sort   of get to say that's just how we do it. And so again, I think now, like the older version of Hunter sees that as, well, man, were kind of, you could have been a stronger leader, but I didn't know what I didn't know. ⁓ But now again, too, like looking at it, like this is exactly the path that I'm supposed to be on and it's fine. And truly like...   The Dental A Team (48:01) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (48:11) There's so many reasons to join a DSO. Some people are looking for an exit. Some people are looking for a lifestyle. And for me, it's just worked out that I, don't know what I was looking for besides relief from all the pressure I felt and, um, and it's worked out, you know? And so I still make enough money that I can do the things that I need to do and want to do. And if the equity works out, that's a cherry on top. And if it doesn't like it's okay for right now. And if I want to do something later,   I can do something else, you know, and that's the other thing too, like with, with the DSO is if, if you want to leave at some point you can. And I don't really have plans to leave per se, but like I, now it's an option. Whereas if I own the practice, that was one reason too, with me and Nate, who part of our thought process was, well, we're from the West in 10 years. If we want to sell in 10 years, who's going to buy us? Are we going to wait 10 years? Why don't we just do it now and grow with the DSO? So that was a big part of it too, is like, what is our exit? And so even though I'm only, I'm not, I'm 40 next year.   The Dental A Team (48:38) can.   Totally.   Hunter Bennett (49:08) I still was sort of planning an exit at some point because the practice was so big and we couldn't find a partner. So maybe that gives some insights retrospectively into our thought process because we did the same conversation every day for six months. But looking at it now, like that's what they've taken off our plate is all those little nuances that are just so mentally exhausting that now when I come home, I can just be present with my kids. I've changed my schedule. Like it's totally benefited my life.   The Dental A Team (49:14) Totally.   Hahaha!   Hunter Bennett (49:38) Lifestyle wise but it's not perfect but I would say an overall net positive, you know If you're not just looking at money, you know If you're not just looking at your month to month income I would say that's like the only downside is I don't make as much money as I used to but my lifestyle is way better so   The Dental A Team (49:43) That's amazing. Sure.   And so we traded a few things, but who knows it can pan out as well to where you actually make more in the future. That's not a given, but like today you're at least in a good space. You've traded ⁓ like money for time. And I think that that's one of the most beautiful things, which ties to, as we like quickly wrap up. I love that you just talked about all the pieces of DSO. I love that you have a great experience. I love hearing the pieces that they were able to take and agreed a lot of businesses actually need to sell to a DSO because they've grown too big that there's not a buyer for them. And like that is   Hunter Bennett (49:57) Yeah. Good.   Yeah.   The

Are you one of the practices leaving thousands in potential revenue on the table due to the data we are seeing nationwide?

Tired of the guessing game in your practice management? This essential episode of Dental Unscripted pulls back the curtain on the raw data driving -- or should we say -- stalling dental practices nationwide. We bring in Steven Jensen from Dental Intelligence, a leader in dental practice analytics, to reveal the most critical trends affecting your profitability. We cover these 4 major data points in detail! The Patient Attrition Crisis: Discover why industry patient growth is flat (around 1.8% per year ) even when you're getting new patients. We show you how the rate of cancellations and no-shows has nearly doubled, pushing patients into an "unscheduled la-la land".The Case Acceptance Collapse: Learn about the steep decline in treatment dollar acceptance, which has fallen from approximately 46% to the 29%–33% range in just a few years.The $24,000 Difference: Hear a real-world example of how tracking just three key metrics by provider revealed a 14% difference in case acceptance between hygienists, representing a potential $24,000 gap in doctor production.From Insight to Action: The conversation moves beyond the "what" and addresses the "how." The hosts and Steven discuss using morning huddles and analytical dashboards to implement new systems that dramatically improve patient retention, treatment acceptance, and overall profitability.Whether you're struggling to pay bills, scaling, or just want more in your paycheck... leveraging this level of data is the best way to get in the game. This episode provides the intelligence (pun intended) that you need, and the steps to act on it.ABOUT THE GUEST:Steven Jensen is the Vice President of Business Development at Dental Intelligence, where he has spent seven years helping dental practices and DSOs accelerate growth, improve profitability, and elevate patient care through data-driven strategies. As the host of the "Growth in Dentistry" podcast and a frequent keynote speaker, Steven is known for delivering actionable insights that resonate with dental leaders at every level. He lives in Utah with his family and is also an accomplished endurance athlete.sjensen@dentalintel.com Review us

In this episode of The Thriving Dentist Show, host Gary Takacs talks with Ian McNickle, CEO of Icon Dental Partners, about the shift from DSOs to Dental Partnership Organizations (DPOs) and how they're reshaping dentistry. Discover how true clinical autonomy, stronger ownership opportunities, and smart staffing solutions help dentists reduce insurance dependence and build lasting profitability. Whether you're planning a transition, scaling your practice, or seeking financial freedom, this episode is packed with proven strategies to support your career and lifestyle goals.  

In this episode, Dr. Lincoln Harris shares how RipeGlobal is transforming dental education with simulation-based training that accelerates learning and scales across DSOs worldwide. He also discusses the biggest challenges in dentistry today and what healthcare leaders need to succeed in a rapidly evolving industry.

In this episode, Dr. Lincoln Harris shares how RipeGlobal is transforming dental education with simulation-based training that accelerates learning and scales across DSOs worldwide. He also discusses the biggest challenges in dentistry today and what healthcare leaders need to succeed in a rapidly evolving industry.

In this episode, Dr. Hillary Abel, Doctor Development Advisor at SALT Dental Partners and President of the District of Columbia Dental Society, shares insights on Medicaid challenges, workforce turnover, and the future of DSOs. She also highlights the promise of AI in dentistry and the critical role of dental societies in advancing the profession.

On today's episode, Dr. Mark Costes sits down with Brannon Moncrief, Principal and CEO of McLerran & Associates, for a deep dive into the current state of the DSO consolidation and private equity landscape. They explore how rising interest rates and a cooling capital market over the last 24 months have forced DSOs to become more disciplined and focused on operational excellence. Brannon shares insights into why joint venture models are gaining popularity, the challenges of recapitalizing DSOs with mixed deal structures, and what practice owners need to know about realistic valuation multiples in today's market.  They also touch on political headwinds, upcoming IPOs, and how recent SEC rule changes could inject billions into private equity investments—including dental. Whether you're an emerging group looking to become a platform or a solo doc wondering what your practice is really worth, this episode provides the grounded perspective every dental entrepreneur needs. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://dentaltransitions.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

In this episode, Dr. Hillary Abel, Doctor Development Advisor at SALT Dental Partners and President of the District of Columbia Dental Society, shares insights on Medicaid challenges, workforce turnover, and the future of DSOs. She also highlights the promise of AI in dentistry and the critical role of dental societies in advancing the profession.

Dentistry is changing fast — from new technologies and practice models to the growing focus on oral-systemic health. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Abdi Sameni, Clinical Associate Professor at the Herman Ostrow School of Dentistry of USC, founder of the Los Angeles Dental Symposium, and practicing clinician at WLA Dental Center in West Los Angeles. Known internationally for his work in dental photography, esthetics, and interdisciplinary care, Dr. Sameni brings decades of experience and perspective to what it takes to make a lasting impact in today's profession.We cover:How dentistry has evolved and where it's headedHow dental photography can improve diagnostics, treatment planning, and case acceptanceThe real effect of DSOs on dentists and what it means for your futureWhat makes the LA Dental Symposium a standout event for cliniciansThe critical connection between oral health and systemic health you can't ignoreThis episode is a must-listen for dentists who want to stay competitive, sharpen their skills, and build a career that lasts — while making a bigger impact on patients and the profession.Learn more:Dr. Abdi Sameni's WLA Clinic: https://www.wladentalcenter.com/IG: @insta_abdisLA Dental Symposium: https://www.ladentalsymposium.com/_______Don't miss out on these deals: Prioritize your wellness—shop my daily essentials here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://teethmatterpod.com/store⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠COCOFLOSS - Use code TM20 to get 20% off ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://cocofloss.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ FIGS - Use referral code to get 20% off ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://fbuy.io/figs/elliehalabian⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠If you want to join the conversation about the realities of dentistry, follow: Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@_teethmatter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ellie Halabian⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠__________________________If you enjoy the podcast, subscribe and rate ⭐️. If you think a friend will enjoy it, please share it with them.

"You need to understand what you're about to sign." Connect With Our SponsorsGreyFinch - https://greyfinch.com/jillallen/A-Dec - https://www.a-dec.com/orthodonticsSmileSuite - http://getsmilesuite.com/ Summary In this conversation, Rob Montgomery shares his extensive experience in legal work focused on the dental and orthodontic space. He emphasizes the importance of legal guidance for young dentists, particularly when navigating contracts, lease agreements, and partnerships. Rob discusses common pitfalls in lease agreements, the significance of understanding personal guarantees, and the challenges associated with associate agreements and partnerships. He also addresses the misconceptions surrounding DSOs and encourages young dentists to pursue ownership opportunities while being mindful of the legal implications of their decisions. Connect With Our Guest Robert H. Montgomery, III, Esquire, P.C. - https://www.yourdentallawyer.com Takeaways Rob Montgomery has been practicing law for 30 years, focusing on the dental field.Young dentists must understand the importance of legal guidance when entering contracts.Lease agreements can be complex and often favor landlords, requiring careful review.Personal guarantees in leases can pose significant risks for practice owners.Associate agreements should clearly outline paths to partnership to avoid future disappointments.Partnerships and buy-ins are often the riskiest transactions in dental practices.Minority buy-ins in DSOs can lead to unfavorable conditions for dentists.Dentists should not feel pressured to work for DSOs; ownership opportunities still exist.Having a strong legal and financial team is crucial for success in dental practice ownership.Understanding the business side of dentistry is as important as clinical skills.Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Background of Rob Montgomery02:53 The Importance of Legal Guidance for Young Dentists06:00 Understanding Lease Agreements and Common Pitfalls09:11 Navigating Associate Agreements and Partnerships11:58 The Risks of Practice Buy-Ins and Partnerships24:04 Understanding DSO Partnerships and Their Implications31:17 Navigating Associateship Agreements and Partnership Promises38:40 Advice for Young Dentists in a DSO-Dominated Market  Episode Credits: Hosted by Jill AllenProduced by Jordann KillionAudio Engineering by Garrett LuceroAre you ready to start a practice of your own? Do you need a fresh set of eyes or some advice in your existing practice?Reach out to me- www.practiceresults.com.    If you like what we are doing here on Hey Docs! and want to hear more of this awesome content, give us a 5-star Rating on your preferred listening platform and subscribe to our show so you never miss an episode.    New episodes drop every Thursday!   

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Ben Fishbein — founder of Fishbein Orthodontics, multiple-time DeNovo opener, bagel store entrepreneur, and Smile Doctors partner — to break down one of the most misunderstood topics in orthodontics today: DSOs, OSOs, and what it really means to join one.If you've ever said, “I'm not ready,” “I could never give up control,” or “I don't need help,” this episode is for you. Ben was once a staunch no—until he actually had the conversation. Now, with multiple thriving practices, ownership in a national DSO, and an expanding local business portfolio, he shares what changed his mind—and why most orthodontists are asking the wrong questions entirely.Whether you're exploring a potential sale, considering DeNovos, or just want to sharpen your vision, this episode will reframe how you think about your career path—and the opportunities right in front of you.QUOTES"The most frustrating thing to me is when someone says, ‘I'm not ready to talk yet.' Why are you not ready to learn something that might be so good it changes your life?"— Dr. Glenn Krieger"I was a naysayer too. I told the Smile Doctors team, ‘There's less than a 2% chance I do this.' Then I listened—and it all started making sense."— Dr. Ben FishbeinKey Takeaways04:50 – Why so many orthodontists dismiss DSOs without ever really hearing the facts06:50 – “30 years in 7” — how Ben's early hustle shaped his future faster08:36 – Why listening to opportunities is part of your duty to your team10:15 – Why selling a practice isn't selling out—and how orthodontists misjudge entrepreneurship15:12 – How partnering opened Ben's eyes to investments he never considered before16:48 – The surprisingly valuable business lessons from running a bagel shop20:19 – Why Smile Doctors' DeNovo model works—and how it's redefining growth24:18 – “Get the information. Don't say no to something you don't understand.”25:37 – Ben's biggest advice to younger orthodontists: “Just go for it.”Additional Resources I've seen firsthand how running the numbers—really running them—has changed the trajectory of practices and lives.Want to get in contact with Ben? https://amandafloydconsulting.com/fishbein-fundamentals This isn't about selling out or giving up control. It's about knowing your options, making smart financial moves, and understanding when an opportunity might never come back. If you've received an offer and aren't sure whether to take it, DM me. I don't get paid either way—but I've had this conversation hundreds of times and I'll help you think it through.

While the financial pieces often dominate the conversation in a DSO sale, there are many more factors involved in the process other than EBITDA and multiples. Christy and Charles help practice owners take a step back and understand all the key considerations when partnering with DSOs. From how the practice value is truly calculated, your preferred workback timeframe and your life after the sale, understanding these components will help you set the right expectations.

Our latest episode featuring two incredible guests, Shannon Pace Brinker, CDA, Founder & CEO of Chairside Assisting & Angela Severance, Training & Education Mgr. for DSOs of Ivoclar. They bring a wealth of knowledge and experience in the dental assisting and education space. We had a fantastic discussion about the challenges and opportunities in clear aligner therapy.  Here are three key takeaways that stood out: The Importance of Consistent Training Understanding Materials and Techniques Navigating Insurance and Documentation To learn more about clear aligner therapy education and how Ivoclar can assist your DSO with education and better patient outcomes reach out to Angela Severance at Angela.Severance@ivoclar.com You can learn more about Shannon and Chairside Assisting at https://www.chairsideassisting.com/    

In this episode of the Group Practice Accelerator podcast, Jamie sits down with Polaris in-house strategist, Founder & CEO, Diwakar Sinha to explore the growing appeal of the de novo strategy in dentistry. Instead of, or in addition to, acquiring existing practices, more dentists and DSOs are choosing to build from the ground up—and for good reason. Diwakar shares his insights into what de novos can offer within your growth strategy, and hints at an opportunity to learn firsthand what it takes to launch one successfully.

On today's episode, we bring you part two of Dr. Mark Costes' live presentation from Nashville at a Shine event, where he uncovers the immense pressures dentists face in practice ownership. From the isolation of clinical work to skyrocketing student debt and decision fatigue, Mark explains why fewer dentists are choosing ownership and how this impacts the future of the profession.   He breaks down the pros and cons of startups versus acquisitions, explores the growing influence of DSOs and private equity, and shares why building scalable practices is critical for long-term success. Mark also offers practical guidance for vendors and consultants to become invaluable partners to doctors navigating this complex landscape. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

On today's episode, we continue with part two of Dr. Mark Costes' in-depth conversation with Kyle Francis of Professional Transition Strategies. Kyle breaks down why recapitalizations have become more difficult for DSOs, how deal overhang and shifting market conditions are impacting valuations, and why understanding the right equity structure is crucial for dentists.   He also shares what makes a dental practice a “first-round draft pick” in the eyes of top DSOs, including the importance of EBITDA, geography, provider risk, and infrastructure. Kyle closes with key insights on how to time your transition and why it's essential to begin with the end in mind. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://professionaltransition.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

On today's episode, Dr. Mark Costes welcomes back Kyle Francis, founder and CEO of Professional Transition Strategies, for part one of a powerful interview. Kyle shares his journey into the world of dental mergers and acquisitions, how he built a company focused solely on seller-side representation, and why time can be a deal's biggest enemy.  He dives into the intricacies of practice valuations, the differences between individual-to-individual sales versus private equity-backed DSO sales, and the common misconceptions many owners have about liquidity and equity. Kyle also sheds light on how market competition has driven higher multiples and what makes some DSOs thrive while others fail. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://professionaltransition.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

Zach and Kevin are joined Alan to have an in-depth discussion on the business of dentistry. They explore the surprising contradiction many dentists face: the challenge of maintaining a profitable practice while also promoting preventive care and serving "healthy" patients who need minimal treatment. They discuss how a shift in the dental landscape, including stagnant insurance reimbursements and rising overhead costs, has made it less viable for some practices to rely heavily on a traditional recall model. The conversation touches on how different dental practice models, such as DSOs, may approach this issue and suggests that offering a wider range of services, like clear aligners, can help make healthy patients a more valuable part of a practice. Join the Very Dental Facebook group using the password "Timmerman," Hornbrook" or "McWethy," "Papa Randy," "Lipscomb" or "Gary!" The Very Dental Podcast network is and will remain free to download. If you'd like to support the shows you love at Very Dental then show a little love to the people that support us! -- Crazy Dental has everything you need from cotton rolls to equipment and everything in between and the best prices you'll find anywhere! If you head over to verydentalpodcast.com/crazy and use coupon code “VERYDENTAL10” you'll get another 10% off your order! Go save yourself some money and support the show all at the same time! -- The Wonderist Agency is basically a one stop shop for marketing your practice and your brand. From logo redesign to a full service marketing plan, the folks at Wonderist have you covered! Go check them out at verydentalpodcast.com/wonderist! -- Enova Illumination makes the very best in loupes and headlights, including their new ergonomic angled prism loupes! They also distribute loupe mounted cameras and even the amazing line of Zumax microscopes! If you want to help out the podcast while upping your magnification and headlight game, you need to head over to verydentalpodcast.com/enova to see their whole line of products! -- CAD-Ray offers the best service on a wide variety of digital scanners, printers, mills and even  their very own browser based design software, Clinux! CAD-Ray has been a huge supporter of the Very Dental Podcast Network and I can tell you that you'll get no better service on everything digital dentistry than the folks from CAD-Ray. Go check them out at verydentalpodcast.com/CADRay!