Podcasts about dsos

Re-releasing a DAT listener favorite! Chris Sands and Brent Saunier are on the podcast to talk about the hottest topics in the dental accounting world. Founding partners of Pro-Fi 20/20, these dental CPAs chat with Kiera about how to reduce overhead and expand the number of patients coming in, expense metrics from the hundreds of offices Pro-Fi works with, a tax rule you NEED to live by, what to stay away from financially with your business, and a ton more. Pro-Fi 20/20 is an accounting business that the Dental A-Team recommend. This episode is a goldmine of information from two fellows who know what they're talking about — especially with regard to the dental industry. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera. And today we are bringing you something so special. I am so excited because this is one of our most popular episodes from the archives. Whether you're hearing this for the first time or catching it again, I am so excited because it's jam packed with a ton of takeaways that you can start using right now in your practice. We have released thousands, literally thousands of episodes. And I wanted to start bringing a few of these amazing episodes back for you. So I hope you enjoy. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time.   on the Dental A Team podcast.   speaker-0 (00:31) today I wanted to bring on two special guests. These are actually CPA in the CPA world. Believe it or not, Dental A Team actually consults this company. So we definitely love them. They went a step above most CPA companies and they really wanted to get to know the ins and outs of the dental world. So I'm super jazzed to bring them on and to just have them dive into some of the hot topics in the accounting world. ⁓ two people that I trust and recommend heavily. ⁓ I   They are one of my top three CPA firms that I refer and recommend constantly. So I'm excited to welcome Chris and Brent from Pro-Fi. How are you gentlemen today?   speaker-1 (01:06) Awesome, Kiera. Thanks so much for having us. We're excited to be with you.   speaker-0 (01:10) Yeah, absolutely. Brent, how are you doing today?   speaker-2 (01:12) I am doing great. I appreciate the invite. I'm looking forward to this 30 minutes with you.   speaker-0 (01:17) Yeah, absolutely. Well, who knows? We'll see how long this ends up going, guys. Brent, can't put a time on us. It could be dangerous zone.   speaker-1 (01:24) You're lucky he said he's doing great because we're in the heat of extended tax season, so he's kind of in the trenches. Lucky he's in a good mood.   speaker-0 (01:32) I know Tiffany has been trying to get back out to you guys to see you and Beth you heard this awesome rock star in the company She keeps saying like tiff. It's like extended tax time or it's this or it's that deadline I'm like, my gosh, you guys just have I think you're secretly adrenaline junkies of CPAs even though you don't come across that way But I think you love it cuz tax season I feel is just like adrenaline rush like trying to get to the deadline. I just can't imagine that stress like   Every quarter every year you just hit it. So props to you guys. That's not my world but super jazz to have you guys on here. ⁓ so Chris let's dive in I know there's some things so we're gonna kind of hit on overhead we're gonna talk about some taxing some Some things to be aware of i'm just so excited because this is a world I don't know and I do purposely bring really really talented and educated cpas and financial advisors onto the podcast because I'm we have a three-fold approach in our company. It's focusing on   Money and finances making sure your business is profitable you as a person and as an individual and then systems and teams top to bottom So I am big I think as a business owner. I wasn't profitable when I first started. I didn't know how to look at my numbers I didn't even know what the heck over influence. I was like googling how to figure it out So i'm just jazzing you guys are here. So Chris kind of take us away I know you had some great topics for today and i'm excited to just   Rift a little bit with you, dive into these things, things that are really tangible for our practices now, especially where you guys work with hundreds of offices across the nation. Lots of good data to be pulling out for our practices listening.   speaker-1 (03:04) Sure, well, ⁓ Kiera, I think that there's a lot of discussion around, does the DSO world seem to do a better job with overhead than the private practice world? I think a lot of private practice doctors are wondering that, they're frustrated or how do I get my overhead down? And a lot of times, I think when you focus on expenses, you tend to attract expenses. And in our world of accounting, I will often tell doctors that, ⁓   Accounting cannot make you money, it cannot generate revenue. The expenses part is the easy part for us that we can work on trying to reduce some things, but you either have a revenue problem or an expense problem. And in most cases it's actually, you creating enough revenue on your fixed expenses? And most of dentistry doesn't understand how simple that is to scale the dental business model when you look at it from a high level.   You scale a business and reduce overhead with doctor production. Okay. And so that means you need enough patients to see the practice that I worked in from my experience was 40 to 60 new patients a month per doctor, per full-time doctor. And it means you need to be reinvesting enough into marketing. And I'll talk about that, that expense or reinvestment of marketing in a minute to get those new patients. And you need to be.   monitoring the phones that get answered properly and there's conversion rate of those inbound calls to appointments scheduled. And then the real job is case acceptance. Okay, and so here I am in an accounting firm coming on your podcast and I bet you didn't think I was gonna like be talking about case acceptance.   speaker-0 (04:46) was like, wonder we didn't talk about all your time. I'm just kidding.   speaker-1 (04:49) So, know, dentistry is really the product that's being delivered. And if you're ethically diagnosing the need and creating the treatment plan, your job is to help the patient understand the urgency and necessity of fixing the problem and paying you to do that work. So your job isn't really the dentistry itself, it's case acceptance.   And your first task is to become great at case acceptance yourself as a practicing clinician. But then the real task as the owner is to be able to teach other doctors to become good at it. So I think, you know, the only the only variable overhead that the dental business model has is paying doctors a percentage of the dental collections that they create. And then you have labs and you have supplies.   associated with the dentistry that's delivered. those expenses are variable. They track with the amount of dentistry that gets done. Everything else is fixed overhead when you really think about it. Marketing is fixed and it only changes based on your choosing. Your team expenses are fixed and they only change when you hire or fire. Your rent and facility costs are fixed. Your equipment costs are fixed and only changed by your choosing. And the various required admin costs, they're all pretty much fixed. They only change by your choosing.   So if you can create more doctor generated collections with the same team and fixed expenses, your profit margin goes up, your percentage overhead, your percentage overhead to collections ratio goes down. Okay. And so I guess we see most private practice or single, should certainly say single location, solo doctor practices. We see them failing at this because they choose not to reinvest enough.   back into the business, into that marketing for new patients. They're not monitoring the phones. They're not training their team. They're not training their doctors on case acceptance. And they're too closely focused on just the clinical delivery of the dentistry. Don't get me wrong, that's required, but that's not what makes you successful or financially successful. So I can give you ⁓ some generic ranges for expenses, but the real thing is that   You know, the real way to scale a business is to generate more revenue on the same overhead. That's kind of the definition.   speaker-0 (07:20) And isn't that basically then probably the DSO model because they have lower fixed costs per se. They've figured out how to have centralized billing, centralized call center, centralized. So many things centralized that they don't need all these different things. So solo practices, if I'm understanding correctly, they've got all the costs associated, but they only have X number of revenue where when you start to add in those multiples of practices,   That's where your fixed costs, it's going, yes, of course your fixed costs will increase a bit, but I mean, I do know our fixed costs did not go up that much more when I added our second practice to it because I already have my base of fixed costs there and then we're just able to add more revenue. Is that kind of what you're saying? Am I understanding?   speaker-1 (08:01) Yeah,   I mean, you know, that, part about centralizing is, know, when you, when you do have multiple locations, I would say three or more, then you can consolidate the amount of team that's working the front desk into one location. Instead of needing three to five team members at the front desk in every office, you may only need three to five team members for all three offices. You're having one of the best things by the way, as kind of an aside, one of the best things that private practices can do as they grow is to get those phones off the front desk. You know, let.   speaker-0 (08:20) Right, right.   I agree.   speaker-1 (08:30) You know, like there needs to be, that needs to be in a totally separate admin space. But, ⁓ you know, I get asked that question a lot. Like my overhead is 65 % and how can I afford to hire another associate doctor and pay them 30 or 35 %? Well, you know, that doctor is going to create new collections. That's the point. It's not to give them your patients. It's to grow the number of patients coming in that, that you as one doctor maybe are stressed.   and you hire the next doctor and you've got to continue to invest in the marketing to keep your job as the owner is keep the chairs full, right? As long as the chairs are full, if that associate doctor is ethically diagnosing like you are, if you guys have a ⁓ clinical standard of care in your practice, if you guys talk about how you treatment plan and your treatment planning the same way, that's all required. But here's the real test. You know, how do they connect with people? How do they, how do they,   establish a relationship, establish trust and get them to move forward with that treatment. So I think dentists hate to use this word in dentistry, but the job is kind of sales. You know, if you believe in your product of dentistry to solve this need and like, again, if you diagnose decay and they don't get rid of it, you failed. I could go on a tangent on that, but the new doctor will bring new collections and you might have to hire at most, you know, an additional   speaker-0 (09:46) Yeah.   speaker-1 (09:55) Assistant or two and that would be a new fixed overhead. You would increase your fixed over it slightly But other than that the doctor covers all their costs with their their percentage pay the labs that are associated with it that the supplies are associated with it and You should net somewhere in the ballpark of 40 to 50 percent on the new collections they create and that that just adds to your profit Because all the other fixed overhead stays the same   speaker-0 (10:19) So I think there's a few things on there of like, I just, think it's a matter of realizing a lot of people bring on associates though, because they're tired, they want more free time. They don't want to be working as much. And I think it's important to clarify that if that's your model, that's totally fine. Everybody knows on the deadline team, I am not somebody who judges. I think everybody has their own personal path.   And so whatever jives with you and resonates with you. So if you're wanting to bring on an associate to have more free time, to not have to produce as much, fantastic, but realize that that overhead might not trickle down because now you're kind of replacing your cost with an associate that you're paying. And some doctors I know don't take as much pay as they would pay an associate per se, which to me, I think is a somewhat failed model. I'm really big on prepping and preparing for that associate, paying yourself as if you were an associate. So you know, these costs before you bring on an associate.   ⁓ but I really think it's important to note that because like you're saying that overhead will go down as long as the doctors are producing. And as long you're able to bring on that other doctor and have them produce, cause they should cover themselves. I definitely agree with that. ⁓ also I'm sure people are saying, yeah, but Chris, like in order to bring on another associate, I'm going to have to build out ops. That's a huge cost and expense. So I am curious, what have you guys found in Brent? You might have some answers to this Chris, you might. ⁓ but if an office is having to say, build out two more ops.   in their practice to be able to bring on an associate, how long does it usually take when you're doing build outs for that cost to be recouped and start being more profitable? Because oftentimes I do think that that gets into the problem with a lot of doctors is they're constantly building more to bring on these other doctors. So they're always adding more and more expenses. Like when do they ever break even? So what have you guys seen with build outs and different things like that of that break even point? How long should they plan for it to not be as profitable?   speaker-1 (12:09) Okay, I'm gonna give you a lot of answers on this. So number one, we use a metric called revenue per chair. So, you know, every, you   speaker-0 (12:17) What   do recommend? What do you guys recommend per chair?   speaker-1 (12:19) So yeah, everyone has a space and you have only a fixed number of spaces or operatories you can have in it. And there's only a fixed amount of time and days and hours and a number of doctors that you have. And revenue per chair capacity, we see a range between 25,000 to 40,000 per chair per month. And it does not matter when you do this. This is just, take collections and divide it by the number of chairs you have. ⁓   This does not matter how many chairs are for hygiene or how many chairs are for dentistry. That's your choice. Actually, you know, there are models where every chair can do everything and the patient never, but the 25 to 40,000 at 35,000 of revenue per chair, you're running fairly efficiently and you're going to need to be planning to expand. You're going to start to run out of space. So that's our metric first and foremost. And so if somebody tells us, well,   speaker-0 (12:53) Sure.   speaker-1 (13:09) I've got four chairs right now, but I have space for seven. I haven't built out the other three. I tell them, you don't need to build out the other three until you're approaching that $35,000 a month of revenue per chair. Question you asked, how much does it cost and when do you recoup that? So in my experience, typically it's around $25,000 per ⁓ operatory to equip it, assuming it's already plumbed. ⁓   after you just take that number and say, so let's say you were equipping a few operatories, so $50,000, you ⁓ essentially, your cost of the doctor plus the lab and supplies should max out at 50%. Okay, now they have to be producing. So until you get them, they've produced over $100,000. All right, let me do it per chair.   They need to do over $50,000 per chair for you to get your costs back. After that, you're in the money.   speaker-0 (14:09) which I think is also smart because I don't know. think dentists kind of err on two different sides. Sometimes they're too slow to actually build out. They are so cost conscious and so concerned about that build up, about the cost of the chair, about all the other things that they're missing, that that one chair is going to generate several thousands of dollars of revenue. I've had a few doctors where I'll say, sure, no problem. We'll do a deal. I will happily pay for that one chair and you pay me all.   the revenue that comes through from that chair for the next three months. That's all I ask is three months. and I know I'm going to come out way ahead of you because it will generate and it will produce, especially in high producing practices. So I think so often people are just so scared to do those build-outs because they see the cost or they do the flip side where they believe like, if we build it, they will come and they're overly aggressive and they don't have necessarily the patient base or the doctors in play to be able to accommodate that. So   I love, I need to agree. It's either cut costs or increase your revenue. Like that's really overhead.   speaker-1 (15:12) One more way to think about it is, you know, if they have patients that are having to wait so many weeks or months to schedule out to come in. if you can calculate your collections divided by the number of patients seen for any given time, for year to date or for a full year, you can get your average revenue per patient. Okay. And if you know your average revenue per patient, you know how many either new patients or how many more patients you need to fill that chair to cover the cost.   Okay. So if your average revenue per patient was, you know, $1,500 per patient, um, and the cost of that chair is 25,000, just take 25,000 divided by 1500. And that'll tell you how many patients have to be seen in that chair before you pay for that chair. Sure. You're to be in the money, you know, it's in terms of the construction. That's another basically upfront, one time fixed costs that you're going to cover. And then all the future revenue that it's going to generate. So.   Maybe if you like, think before we end this topic on overhead, I'll give you kind some of our expense metric. ⁓   speaker-0 (16:18) Sure, yeah, absolutely.   Well, hang on, before you go into expense metrics, I want to bring up one piece that I think often gets missed, because you're saying like we're in the money. But I also want to bring up something that I really love to point out, and that is return on emotion. Some people don't want to bring on an associate. Yes, like as a business model, you can be more financially successful with an associate. Yes, you can, having more chairs, more build out, more practices. ⁓ But I also want to point out there is a return on emotion. There are sometimes   Bigger headaches, they're also sometimes less headaches with bigger organizations. I personally love to consult larger practices. The pettiness, the cattiness, the smaller drama is way less in larger practices or multiple locations. So like that drastically drops down. They figured it out. They're dialed into systems. But at the same time, I think it's important for people to assess that return on emotion. You might have a dreamy life. You might be doing exactly what you want and sure you could produce more.   But if you're off work at say two or three o'clock every day and you work two or three days a week and you're shelling and seven fifty to a million in profit, not a bad lifestyle. So I think it's also important to assess like what you ultimately want and what your return on emotion is before just saying like, I'm going to build because this is the way to do it. I think if you're looking at your practices as a business model, which I personally think a lot of us should look at it that way, ⁓ just to see what you what you ultimately want, what's your end game. And that's also where I love financial advisors of   Like what is your total term? Like where do you want to get? Does it make sense to grow? Does it make sense to stay where I'm at? ⁓ I think oftentimes we, we forget that return on emotion and how that is. We always think of like return on investment, but what does that return on emotion too? So just want to put a plug of like, I think everyone's on their own path, their own journey. Definitely agree. There are lots of ways that you can be insanely profitable and having multiple practices is a great, great, great business play. And you're able to help more practices. I'm all in favor.   You're gonna have multiple locations. Make sure you're doing awesome dentistry because sure, it can be very lucrative. Just be ethical because I think that plays out long-term. So Chris, with that, what are some of the metrics you guys look at? Because I agree, I love to hear people's metrics. I think we're pretty closely aligned with you guys on metrics, which is another reason I really love working with you guys and your clients.   speaker-1 (18:32) So I think if you ⁓ were to survey the Academy of dental CPAs and all of their, what you see them put out statistically, they're gonna tell you the metric of one to 2 % for marketing. When you go and you immerse yourself in the DSO world and their conferences and get to know what they're doing, you're gonna see more of an average of six to 8 % reinvestment into marketing. DSOs have a harder time with retention. They have more patients going out the back door. Private practices.   degraded retention, but they don't often invite enough people to the party. So we don't go by the one to 2 % number. think that's an area where people try to, they're trying to keep costs down. You know, your business is the greatest asset that you own that provides the greatest return and you have the most control over. So you should be reinvesting in it more than you reinvest in the stock market or anything else. So our metric for marketing is three to 8%. Private practices, like to see at least three to five.   I mean, excuse me, in GP practices, in specialty practices, especially like orthodontics, needs to be on the higher end. Team expenses between 20 to 30%. We certainly try to keep that under 30%. Team expense does not include doctors. Okay. So that's all of your, all of your, uh, your, your entire team, including a hygienist as well, but not doctors, uh, dental supplies somewhere five to nine, five to 10 % labs.   speaker-0 (19:36) Yes, absolutely.   speaker-1 (19:58) four to 7%. So again, those dental supplies and labs really should not be greater than roughly 15 % total. Rent and facilities, five to 9%. What does that mean? So if you have a high percentage in your rent and facility costs, if your rent facility is let's say nine, 10, 11%, that means you're probably not maximizing the space and getting the collections that is possible there. Again, using that revenue per chair metric.   When you're on the lower end, if you have 4 to 5 % rent of facility, means you're running very efficiently. You're probably going to be running out of space and need to expand or potentially relocate or get another location. And then there's general administrative costs somewhere in the range of 4 to 10%, depending on the practice type and what additional folks they have.   speaker-0 (20:48) Cool.   speaker-1 (20:50) That's it on everything.   speaker-0 (20:51) No, I love it so much because I think so often people don't look at their P &Ls and they don't even know what they should be targeting for. It's just like, well, do I have money left over or do I not? And then I don't know. like all of that combined should equal about 50 % there. Is that correct? Those are 50 % and then doctor pays 30 % to give a 20 % profit margin. And then you subtract debt services from that. that kind of your guys' model? That's what I've heard. It's what I typically recommend.   speaker-1 (21:18) Roughly. mean, yeah. You know, I, the most ideal is that I think when the average doctor starts to work with us, their profit margin is in the twenties, the 20 % range. our goal is to get them into the forties. Okay. And everyone does chase this like 50 % number, but I will tell you that eventually if you have to scale again, if you have to reinvest, that's the part like you're, drive yourself nuts. Would you rather have, you know, 50 % of 1 million or do you rather have 40 % of 3 million? Right.   You know, and that's that. So it's not always just about that overhead percentage. Uh, it is about if you choose to scale and you're, you're buying, you're reinvesting some of your, your overhead percentage, you're reinvesting some of your money to buy back your time. Like you said earlier, okay. Um, whether that's on multiple doctors or not, you know, being a slave to the chair is difficult and high risk to you as a business owner. It's one of the riskiest business models there is.   speaker-0 (22:12) Right.   I think that that's such a good point.   But guys, you don't know, can, Pro-Fi is fantastic. You can reach out to them, have them help you with your PNLs. Also your current CPAs, you can get a chart of accounts and give them these percentages and say, this is where I want it to be. Help me get there, give me some information because a lot of CPAs are not dental specific and they might not know these industry standards. And I agree with you. I also think it's important to think of growth years and also profit years. Some years you are definitely massively.   reinvesting into the practice and you might not be sitting at as high of an overhead, but you're doing it with the intent. Like when I bring on new team members, when you bring on new doctors, your overhead is going to go down. It should go down because you are investing and you're growing, but you need those people. This year on Dental A Team is a growth year. I am heavily bringing on new team members. My overhead is not as great as it has been in the past years. But if I, like you said, chase that X number of overhead and never invest in that growth,   I can't get to the next level of where I wanna go. So I thought that was really, really helpful. Thank you for that, Chris. And I know now we wanna spin over to Brent. Brent's been hanging out silently over there of some tax things. And I do love that you guys ying and yang on practice metrics because that's what we're all about. And then the tax world that I'm like, here's the thing. Here's my take on taxes. I am so grateful to live in a country where I get to pay taxes to have my own business. Like I truly think that is a massive blessing of the country we live in.   With that said, I also think it's my responsibility as a business owner to be as savvy as I can on taxes and not overpay on taxes because I'm just dumb and I'm not actually looking at strategy using smart people beyond myself to do it. So Brent, I'm so jazzed. Talk to us kind of about some tax things that you've been thinking of that your clients are dealing with.   speaker-2 (24:00) Yeah, absolutely. So I remember a few early evening calls with you and you're calling and saying help.   speaker-0 (24:06) It was in December last year, like literally right before the end of the year. And I was like, Brent, I owe so much dang money in taxes. Any ideas? It's fine, guys. It's fine.   speaker-2 (24:19) One of the foundations of Pro-Fi that we built it on is education. So we are very big believers in educating our clients to understand, first and foremost, how do you even generate taxes? So the number of conversations we have with dentists that just don't have a basic understanding is really astounding to me. So we first take an approach of, you have to understand how do you generate income tax? You generate income tax by the salary or W-2 you take.   and profit. The key thing here is it does not matter if you take a dollar of that profit out of the business, you still owe tax on the profit. So here, when you're looking at your P &L, let's say a doctor has a half a million dollars of profit and they choose not to take it home and leave it in the business, they will still pay tax on half a million dollars. I had a call today, the exact conversation is like, why didn't take any of the money home?   speaker-0 (25:18) It doesn't matter. were profitable brother, sister, like rock on. Happy day for you.   speaker-2 (25:23) You know, as Chris was alluding to, if you choose to reinvest in the practice, do marketing or other items like that that are deductible, that will obviously reduce your burden. The second thing, the second biggest mistake is don't underestimate your effective tax rate. So Chris and I have, we call it, I guess the golden rule or the 40 % tax rule. And that is geared towards over-preparing a business owner when it comes time to send in those quarterly estimates.   And I'll come back to that one in a minute, but the 40 % tax rule, if you have a pen, I would write that down because that is a rule to live by. And also ask your CPA advisor, whoever they are, whether it's us or your other another CPA, ask them before you make the decisions. So I got a call yesterday from a doctor in South Carolina. He's like, hey, I want to buy a machine that's going to cost me $85,000. My equipment rep said I'd get a 40 % tax deduction.   Just about that much.   speaker-0 (26:23) That was a clever salesperson.   speaker-2 (26:26) Yeah, they all do it. We love equipping reps. No badging equipment reps. But understanding, depending upon your entity type, whether or not you will be able to deduct that in the current year is a huge thing that you have to understand. Chris and I have seen so many doctors over the years that have come to us after the fact. And I think we've done a great job of educating, hey, I bought this equipment, it's $100,000.   When we do the tax return, it's like, you're not involved deducted. They're like, why not? The equipment reps that I could. So just make call your advisor before you do it. That's the best thing you can do for yourself.   speaker-0 (27:02) Well, and I, to that point, I just say like, you should have experts on your board as a business owner, people that you genuinely trust for taxes. And like you said, ask them, ask your rep about the best products and what they're seeing of results within the patient's mouth. Cause that's where they're experts. But I'm just going to put a massive plug, like, gosh, the number of dollars I have spent personally, because I didn't ask,   If we can save anybody even a couple of grand, like you're welcome. You're welcome. Just ask, ask before you do it.   speaker-2 (27:36) Right, absolutely. Then I kind of look at what are some things that you can do to make sure you're not blindsided by that tax surprise? ⁓ One thing we do is we always recommend in your business, you have to run multiple bank accounts. And one of those bank accounts is a tax savings account. Your business should fund and pay for your personal tax bill. So think about like ⁓ grandmother's cash envelope system.   create different buckets in the business, move the money out of your OpEx account because, know, like for me, if I have 20 bucks, $20 in cash in my pocket, I'm going to spend it. But if I put it away in the bucket where it's intended, it'll be there when I need it.   speaker-1 (28:18) My bucket, right?   speaker-0 (28:19) Yes, you can just send them my way this year Chris. It's fine Brent. It's fine I'll take him but Brent I want to speak so highly to that because ⁓ It really does help. I will also put a plug of like have really good financial planners and tax planners with you because I am actually really really good at saving money for taxes What I really get frustrated with is when it comes to December and I have been saving and I have been putting that away ⁓   And then they're like, Kiera, you owe an extra X amount. And I'm like, what the heck? I've even saved this. So that's where I also think it's really pro to have really good CPAs that are that actually no tax. So I am curious. You guys tell me the truth, because I don't know how this works. I'm not a CPA, but I swear every year I get a call December 1st and it's like almost a double what I've already saved for the whole year. And I'm a saver. Like I don't spend a dime in my business.   speaker-1 (29:14) call you get all year long, Kiera.   speaker-0 (29:16) It's not well, I have a monthly call with them and we even plan for taxes, but this year my quarterly taxes It's okay guys. I'm interviewing new cpas. It's okay. my cpn doesn't listen to the podcast I don't think if so, it's great. We've had a good run for several years But like that's where I get a surprise. Is it common? Should you be getting a surprise call on december 1st? If you've got good tax people, and you've been planning and preparing and putting money aside all year long is that   speaker-1 (29:41) As you answer this question for her and I would go over safe harbor estimates, but Kiera to set you up for what Brent's going to say. What happens is somebody tells you a number and you kind of start to operate like a zombie and you're like, okay, I put that number away, put it away and you did it. And you're like, okay, I put the number where you told me, but at the same time you're trying to grow your business.   speaker-0 (30:06) To that point though Chris I'm gonna like back on this because I think I'm actually a really smart business owner But every freaking year this happens. I'm trying to fix this and hopefully someone   speaker-1 (30:15) I think it has to do with your growth.   speaker-0 (30:18) I   overestimated what my growth would be this year. So I said I was going to be double what I was last year and we're coming in at about a 70 % growth of what I was last year. So I gave my CPA a 30 % extra window to project on me and we're still coming up a hundred, I'll say a different number, but I'm coming up more than I had saved.   almost three times as much as they had saved for me. cause I get burned every single year. So I'm like a squirrel with nuts and I put away for tax savings in my company because I never know what I'm going to owe. And it scares me. So with that said, I agree with growth. If you can, if you can project where you're going to go and you're having consistent quarterly meetings with your CPA, is it common to still have a massive like uptick in December? I would ask.   speaker-1 (31:04) No, it's not.   So look, to keep it simple, like, you know, I'm kind of talking on the managerial accounting side of things and Brent's talking on the tax side of things. If you're meeting with that accountant and you look at that bottom line profit, okay, you owe 40 % of that profit, whether you took it home or not. And then if you made any estimated tax payments, you can subtract those tax payments from that 40%. Okay. ⁓ And then you can apply some deductions and maybe bring the number down.   speaker-0 (31:24) Agreed.   I'm asking for a friend hashtag myself right now I mean I get better every year around taxes because I hate the surprise and I think most people do but I also wanted to point out I'm like I think I'm pretty savvy with business I talked to a ton of CPAs like this isn't like my first day running a business So and I'm happy to hear and with that 40 % So here's another thing that I've also which maybe I'm just dumb Maybe I'm just coming around the block to this so you guys can tell me ⁓ but it's 40 % of the profit correct like   And that profit also includes my W-2 as a business owner. So I've got to like...   speaker-1 (32:10) That profit is after your W-2. Hopefully your W-2, you have normal withholdings. Sure. you're like zero or one, you can kind of pretty much say, hopefully the federal and state taxes are all withheld from that for you. Right. have to worry about it. Okay. It's the profit that's left over after your W-2 and all the other expenses of the business you have 40 % on. So Brent, tell her about what happens at the beginning of the year.   When we talk, they those first estimates. think everybody starts to like, they get glued to the estimates and they never update them.   speaker-2 (32:41) Yeah, so a couple things. So, Kiera,   speaker-0 (32:45) Call   you in December, Brent. We're going to have this conversation in year two.   speaker-2 (32:49) Maybe we should start in January for next.   speaker-0 (32:51) I like that strategy is much better. I'm like I've even I started my tax meetings in July this year guys Like this is how much I'm paranoid and I'm like they're just shelling a ton on me again And I'm like how does it happen every year? I don't I don't understand so   speaker-2 (33:05) Here's a trend I noticed over the last four years. you know, there was in 2017, there was the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which changed the tax code. also changed. There's also been changes to the payroll tax tables. So I would take UW2, look at your federal tax withheld and divide that by your taxable wages in box one. More than likely, it's going to be in the 10 to 12 % range.   If you were in the 40 % tax bracket, you're already 30 % short on your taxes. Let's say you pay yourself $100,000. If you're 30 % short, that's a five digit dollar. So that's where I'd first start. And that is very, very, very common. You will not see any withholding in a W-2 being over 25 % unless you manually requested that from the payroll company.   speaker-0 (33:39) Right.   speaker-2 (34:01) bonuses or automatically taxed at 25%, but your regular payroll is probably in the 10 to 12 % range. So that's one reason it's happened. What Crystal's talking about, so let's say that we prepare your return in April. So let's say your 2020 return and every accountant will do what's called a safe harbor tax estimate, which basically says your estimates will be 110 % of your prior year tax.   speaker-1 (34:30) The IRS wants you to put 10 % more than last year away, like pay them in advance. They like you to do it quarterly because collecting money once a year is a bad business model.   speaker-0 (34:40) And it's a bad business model.   speaker-2 (34:42) So like Chris said, when a client gets those estimates, and let's say they're $25,000 a quarter, they are fixed on $25,000 a quarter. So what we do is with all of our clients in June and early July, we actually run tax projections or mock tax returns the upcoming year. We pull their year to date profit, we get all their deductions and we project out if that original safe harbor estimate has changed.   Then we do it again in November and early December to make sure that you're still on track and also looking for additional ⁓ tax strategies. But to answer your question from earlier, should you be surprised with a big number? No, not if you're doing proper planning.   speaker-0 (35:30) with like a little variance, but I just want to point that out because I think so many business owners get scared of taxes and this year, don't worry guys, it's on my vision board by the age of 36. I will be a tax expert. I look at it every single night. I have no desire to be a CPA, but I really think it's important as business owners to educate yourself on taxes and like you said to plan and to save for it because otherwise it's just this always surprise bill that creates stress. For me as a business owner, I know often I just feel like   I don't dare spend money because I'm gonna get hit with this big unknown. And so I'm like this girl, I literally have four tax savings accounts in my business right now. And they're in like four different business accounts, so my CPA can't see them all. Because I'm like, you come to me every year with this huge surprise and every year it's like double what I thought you were gonna say. And like I'm grateful to be very successful in what we do. However, I don't think business owners should be surprised, especially if you have a good CPA. So I just wanted to like find out like, that normal?   I feel like I'm on the anomaly, but good to know on that.   speaker-1 (36:33) Tax surprises cause cash flow problems.   speaker-2 (36:39) So Kiera, let me quantify that one of   speaker-0 (36:41) Guys,   don't worry. Everyone on the podcast, this is a Cura therapy session. You're welcome to be attending this. So we're glad.   speaker-2 (36:48) So can there be a tax surprise? Yes. The reason the tax price might happen is if you told your CPA, hey, I'm going to be doing these improvements and they're going to be done by December 31st. If in December you tell them, well, it didn't work out and I'm not going to have all these expenses. And yes, you're going to, you're going to get a surprise because you didn't, your plan didn't follow through. The other thing is talking about the separate tax account in the business. It's,   speaker-0 (37:12) That's fair.   speaker-2 (37:18) Absolutely recommended, but the most important part is you cannot spend it on anything but your tax bill. You cannot not rob Peter to pay Paul. That is probably the biggest mistake you could make is saying, well, I'll take it now. I have eight months to put it back in.   speaker-0 (37:34) That's like that makes my heart stop. I feel so stressed for people and also for anyone who wants to know like you I wish you could see the zoom right now with me Brent and Chris You know these guys love what we're talking about because Brent is literally getting like so excited and so animated talking about this So that's just when you know people are good at what they do I get so geek I'll geek out on dentistry and systems and like how we can help you and they're jazzing about some some tax benefits here So I agree. I think that if you aren't doing that, I also like the thought of 40 %   Do you guys recommend, because I know another piece to it, which I realized this year was like charitable contributions. I'm LDS. And so having charitable contributions, 10 % is something that I was like, that was funny. We didn't prepare for that. So that's like another check that I wasn't planning. And then also like SEP and 401ks. Do you guys have anything that you recommend for that of having a tax savings fund, but also building up those other funds and those payments that you'll be making to reduce your tax bill? Yes.   but those are also pretty big expenses, depending upon how your business does every year. How do you guys manage or navigate that? Or should I just be saving more? Because again, I'm like building these funds up to this, I've got four accounts, because I stress out about it.   speaker-2 (38:44) So Chris, I'm gonna let you take that one on the cashflow. It's really cashflow planning.   speaker-1 (38:48) Yeah, a lot of questions in there.   speaker-0 (38:50) Cool, like I said, this is why I podcast guys, because I can ask my own personal questions.   speaker-1 (38:57) In terms of okay, should you be doing okay. what do you want me to start a chair charitable chair?   speaker-0 (39:03) Just   like I think that a lot of people might get quote-unquote surprised at the end of the year because not only do we have a tax bill to pay, we have charitable contributions that we're paying. We also have 7401Ks. Like there are quite a few other funds that need to be paid out again to reduce our tax bills to help us. But those are also cashflow that you need to have on hand as a business owner to be able to front that money. So I've been also thinking that could be why other people feel like it's a surprise at the end of the year, just all lumped into taxes when it is just other pieces to help reduce that tax bill for you.   speaker-1 (39:33) if   something is important to you, then it needs a separate bank account. if charitable giving is important to you, I think you should have a separate bank account so you can visually see that you've got it ready to pay. And in order to make it tax deductible, it does need to be a 501C3. can't just be any random, say, it's... Right? So ⁓ when it comes to all of the retirement accounts, mean, ⁓ 401Ks and IRAs and simple IRAs and all of that,   speaker-0 (39:51) about last year.   speaker-1 (40:02) Roth, that's like the smallest fraction. That's like the, you know, the entry level league of the tax code in terms of savings. And it's, it's really kind of the stuff that the masses can do. I certainly think it's important to save and save for retirement. think when you're a business owner and let me say this, mean, upfront, I'm a contrarian. I think when you're a business owner, you have to be a contrarian and know that not everything applies to you the same way as everyone else. Sure. I, my bias is I have a much.   stronger tendency to say, you know, spend the money in your business or put the, I should say, invest, reinvest the money in your business for growth, because it's going, there's an asset value to that, to that business. need to learn what that is and what you one day can exit it for. And it creates, gives you the most, you know, income. ⁓ If you put money into a 401k or you put money into marketing in your business, you get the same tax deduction. So that's a question. If you're looking for like year end stuff, you know,   You could put the money into the, into the retirement plan, or you could prepay some expenses for next year. ⁓ You lot of people, think don't trust their business, which is weird because it's the thing you have the most control over, but they don't trust their own business. Typically it's cause they're not really great at managing their own cashflow and having discipline. And so they're, they're hesitant to invest the money in the business. And they'd rather go roll the dice and put it in the stock market. And at the time of this podcast recording, let me tell you.   We are in a recession. It has already begun. Everything is very high. Stock market's high. Real estate is high. Your business is one of the safest places to put your money right now. It provides you an inflation hedge, okay? And it creates revenue. ⁓ And it's tax deductions. I'm a big believer in putting the money into your business or getting another business. I think Brent can talk about, know, people ask us like, what are some of the largest   speaker-0 (41:47) Right.   speaker-1 (41:56) deductions you can play in. Like what, are the bigger things you can do outside of a 401k? Tax deductions. Generally speaking, the tax code rewards you for doing things that improve our economy. And that's primarily investing in businesses, you know, adding another location, employing people and commercial real estate, commercial real estate is a big one. Again, commercial real estate's really high right now. It may not be the perfect time to be buying or building. Cause all of the costs are really high.   save that cash, even if you have to pay some taxes, save the cash for liquidity for the tough times. when this recession happens, most practice owners are going to stop investing in their business, they're to stop marketing. And you got to do the opposite. That is the time where you can do all of that at its lowest cost. that's when millionaires are really made is during recession. So I'm going on a tangent now. You got me passionate   speaker-0 (42:50) No,   I like it. I like hearing it because I like thinking of other things. think so often you said it really well of business owners want to contract. They want to not reinvest in themselves. It's like, well, like let's put it in the stock market because that's what I heard that we should do. But I really do love that mindset. And that's why I love podcasting. That's why I love talking to different people. This is why I bring you guys on here because I purposely, intentionally bring different ways of thinking out there. You've got to make your own decisions.   But I'm a big like when people are zigging, I want to zag. So right now real estate's hot. Commercial's hot. The stock market's hot. Like I literally am sitting here just thinking like, here, just sit on some cash. Like, like you said, I might have to pay more taxes on it, but sit on that cash because you know, it's going to drop. And during that time, that's when you do the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing. So I really love that advice. And I think it's wise and it's prudent. I also love what you said, Brent, of having the 40%.   A lot of people say do 30%, but agreed a lot of dentists do tip into that 40 % tax bracket. And I would much rather over prepare than under prepare. Chris, to your point, I really love also having the buckets for like we said, charitable contributions, if you're going to do ⁓ 401ks, but I really, agree with you too. I think reinvest in your business. Look to see, I do end of year spending. I look to see what I could reinvest in, what things are gonna propel us the most. I look at marketing, I look at website rebuilds, I look at.   Different softwares that are going to propel us forward different ways to make our our practice more efficient What things are really going to invest in our company and our team? To make it and then I just do fun things like, know trips places I definitely don't get much ROI on that except for emotional ROI, but I know I know this is a longer podcast guys I really hope and I also hope team members listening realize that this is not just for business owners. I think that this is also   Individual tax prepping make sure you are preparing look for ways that you can reinvest in yourself What things could you prepare for what things can you build out? Do you have separate savings accounts for different things that you're going to maybe you don't have to save for taxes But guess what maybe one day you will be a business owner So teach yourself the discipline to save now to look for reinvestment. I also think is super valuable. So I want   speaker-1 (45:05) team members, for those team members, what side hustle can you create? What side of business can you create? know, and what, what commercial or what even residential property, rental property could you create to give yourself rental income? And there are deductions that come along with that. But if all you do is just do your day to day job, whether you own a business or don't own a business, you're not going to save anything in taxes, nothing significant. got it. You got to create some value in the world out there.   speaker-0 (45:29) Agreed. say deliver the biggest and best value. So you guys teased me. So I want to wrap up our podcast with some things to not be doing. You guys have kind of like a hit list right now of some things, some tips that a lot of us might be doing that are cracking down. I know I have been privy to some of these things as well. So take us away. We'll wrap this up with just some, some of that hit list of what not to do. ⁓ and   you know, as we get in there, thank you guys for sharing all that you have. Thank you for doing a personal session with me already. So I'm excited for the hit list now.   speaker-2 (46:01) So I would say the biggest one that I've seen is the fascination that doctors have with crypto.   speaker-1 (46:01) Go ahead, Brent.   speaker-0 (46:12) Brent, it's because we're bored. We don't know what else to do with ourselves, so we're like, why not throw a little into crypto?   speaker-2 (46:17) Here's the problem. So I have about a half a dozen doctors over last six months. They called me and said, Hey, I put $200,000 into the crypto market, Bitcoin. And I'm like, really? Where did you, where did you write the check from for that investment from the practice? Here's the problem. If that practice is an S corporation and they invest that money in crypto and they hit it big, they could potentially blow up their IRS S corp election.   and the IRS will take it away from you. So if you're gonna do investments, do not write the check from your practice. You can take the money home as a distribution, then put it into crypto, but do not do it through your business.   speaker-0 (47:01) This is a moment where I just had like a, I'm like, good. I'm glad I did that at least right. even knowing. Why is that?   speaker-1 (47:03) Sorry.   So that one, I mean, that one can cause some serious damage. ⁓ But the other ones that I think nobody wants to hear when they're listening to this, and I get in all these battles on social media, Facebook groups and all that. But the two things that come up over and over and over again that everybody's kind of cheating on and they're going to get busted on is number one, paying employees and especially dentists and hygienists, paying them as 1099 contractors.   This is going to get you in trouble not only with the IRS, but with the Department of Labor. And there are some significant penalties. There is a black and white 20 question checklist that the IRS provides. You can Google that. You can find it directly on the IRS website. And it goes through a checklist of yes or no questions to determine if you qualify to be a 1099 independent contractor or if you fit the requirements of a W-2. And to simplify it,   The main thing is the element of control who controls the schedule, who tells you which patients you're seeing and when who's providing all the materials and the tools and equipment. And 99 % of the time, anyone in dentistry falls under the category of an employee. Pretty much have to be a specialist that owns their own separate practice already coming in part time in order for you to 10 99 them. And if you're 10 99ing them, you're 10 and you have to do it to their business. The other thing that doesn't work is when, you know, they're like,   Oh, I'm an individual doctor. I'll just set up an S corp and you can 1099 my escort. The IRS is not stupid. Again, they're they're looking at what are your what is your role within that that place that you're receiving the income from the revenue from. So anyway, everybody hates that. But I'm telling you, I   speaker-0 (48:58) I   don't think it's a, it's not a good place to play with fire. Um, I have a really, really, really awesome unemployment lawyer, um, and employment lawyer. He represents Uber Lyft Red Bull. He's in, um, San Francisco. If you guys need him, he's amazing. Reach out to us. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Um, but he told me he said, Kiera Uber and Lyft, which I personally think I'm no lawyer guys. I'm not there. Uber and Lyft to me are the epitome of 10 99 contractors.   but they are, ⁓ they're coming down, they're cracking down on it. And ⁓ I have heard that it is no longer just a small offense. It's a pretty big offense if you misclassify. To me, really, I'm a risky person, but I believe in being smart and also paying people the way they should be paid. As much as it's not fun, we transitioned our whole company and I just think play that one safe because labor laws are not something to ever mess with, in my opinion.   speaker-1 (49:51) Yep. And you know, the government has shelled out a lot of money through this pandemic and they've got to collect it and get it back. And they're going to get that back from small business owners. And, ⁓ you know, our, our dependent care systems of Medicare and social security are very fragile right now. And that's the one thing they do not want you to screw with. And so they collect that money through W2 payroll. They're going to, they're going to force more and more than everybody's W2, especially in the occupation of dentistry. Second thing is the cars. Okay. Everybody wants to run their cars through the business.   You might be allowed to run a car through your business. It depends on what type of business you're in. If you're in real estate and you're showing houses and you're driving your clients around, you can probably write your car off through your business. But in dentistry, you're going to sit across the table from an auditor and they're going to say, what does a car have to do with the business of dentistry? The IRS tax code says that your business expenses must be ordinary and necessary to the business for them to be deductible.   What does the car have to do with the business of dentistry? How is a vehicle ⁓ justified as 100 % business use as a necessary use in order to do dentistry?   speaker-0 (51:00) What if it's a wrapped vehicle that's marketing?   speaker-1 (51:03) That's different. there are very specific guidelines in the IRS tax code about what is marketing for a vehicle. must be fully wrapped. It can't just be magnets. It can't just be stickers. But it has to be significant that's used for marketing. What we find is not a lot of doctors want to wrap their test up.   speaker-0 (51:23) Because they're ticked off with the patient that Ruekinaal didn't go super well and they're cutting people off on their drive home and you don't really want your flashy business to be that car.   speaker-1 (51:31) Right. I mean, and to make it legitimate, mean, the car has to be legally registered in the business name. It has to be covered under business insurance, not your personal insurance. The loan has to be under the business name, not your personal name. And there's a, you know, most people are not doing that. They're doing, they're buying it personally. They're just making the payment out of their, out of their business. And they think that they can deduct the whole thing. And this is not true. There's even greater scrutiny if the business tries to buy, if the dental business tries to buy a vehicle.   and depreciate it, take it as 100 % use. So I know people hate to hear that, but I would just caution everyone listening, stay away from 1099 and cars in your business. But everyone's.   speaker-2 (52:12) doing   it!   speaker-0 (52:13) I heard a really great quote one day and they said Kiera everything's deductible until you get audited and I was like That's really good advice. I appreciate that. So guys, ⁓ Chris and Brent. Thank you guys for coming on the podcast Thank you for being people that I can call Brent. Thank you for being my December, you know midnight hour friend I loved last year. You said care. There's really not much we can do. Maybe we should have done this in January. So ⁓   But truly, I just appreciate you guys helping so many doctors. know you help a lot of our clients. Shout out to those clients that we mutually work together. I love working with CPA companies. I think we're a good peanut butter and jelly together. We help grow the practice, make them more profitable. You guys make sure that their books are in line. Give us the guiding stars of what levers to turn to help the practices. You take care of the taxes. So it's a really good yin and yang and   I hope all of you listening today found a lot of value. Team members, look at this for yourselves. Get the side hustle. I hope this spurred some, some topics, some conversation. Team members, can also help your practices reduce that tax bill. look for ways that you can spend end of year, just different things. So I definitely think team members have a lot of play in this as well. So Chris and Brent, thank you guys so much. It's super fun. If people want to connect with you, ⁓ maybe they're done with their CPA. Maybe they just want to find out if.   There might be another option out there. How can they connect with you? I know you guys specialize in DSOs, larger group practices, but also the solo practices as well. How can people connect if they're interested?   speaker-1 (53:40) Sure, so check us out online at our website, Profi2020.com. That's P-R-O-F-I-2-0-2-0.com. ⁓   speaker-0 (53:47) You did   that because 2020 was such a great year that you guys want to remember. ⁓   speaker-1 (53:53) That marketing plan went out the window. It was 20-20 clarity to give you clarity on your finance.   speaker-0 (53:54) No.   I   just thought I'd throw it out there. So no one will forget Pro-Fi 2020. 2020 was most memorable year guys. Don't forget it. They don't want to forget it ever.   speaker-1 (54:07) We have tons of free videos, a lot of great content on there. Check us out on our YouTube channel, all social media, know, at Profi2020. We're very easy to find. ⁓ But we're managerial accountants. It's way different than financial accountants out there. Make sure you look up that difference and know what you're asking for. ⁓ And we always do free consultations for anyone who would like it.   speaker-0 (54:29) Awesome. Well, Chris and Brent, thank you again so much, guys. Go check them out, Profi2020. Chris and Brent, they are the owners of the organization. So super grateful for you guys coming on here.   Kiera Dent (54:38) I hope you all loved today's episode as much as I did. It is crazy to think that this many episodes have been released since we started the Dental A Team Podcast. And I started looking to say, my goodness, our listeners need to be reminded of some of the things they may have learned a year ago or two years ago or five years ago, because so many things in our practices weren't relevant back then when we heard them, but they are relevant today. And I would be doing you a huge disservice if I didn't re-release some of these episodes for you to remember, to refine.   to optimize and really truly if you ever need a topic or you're like, my gosh, I wonder if the Dental A Team has anything like this, go onto our website, TheDentalATeam.com, click on our podcast tab and you can literally search any topic. So whether it's overhead or hiring or firing or team morale or engagement or case acceptance or hygiene   onboarding or whatever it is, we have so many episodes for you. And so I am going to intentionally be   re-releasing some of the top best episodes for you, pulling back some of the ones that I needed to remember, some of the things that I feel for you to really, really relearn right now and to re-remember, or if it's the first time, welcome. I'm so happy you're listening to it, but I hope you truly enjoyed today's episode. I hope that you share this with somebody. I hope that you go and implement today because we only have one day. We only get today. And so making today the best that it possibly can be. If we can help you in any way, shape or form, reach out Hello@TheDentalATeam.com.   And as always, thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.

Dentistry is entering a new reality for DSOs and group practices. Growth alone isn't the strategy anymore. Leaders today have to manage enterprise risk, operational consistency, and long-term valuation. Dr. Bryan Laskin shares a powerful leadership framework from his mentor Dan Sullivan called DOS: Dangers, Opportunities, and Strengths. Using this lens, he walks through the three biggest dangers facing dental organizations today, the three opportunities that can unlock predictable growth, and the three strengths dentistry already has built into its model. This episode of "The Bryan Laskin Podcast" challenges leaders to rethink how they operate at scale. Because when organizations operationalize connection, clarity, and confidence across every location, they create the one thing investors, teams, and patients all value most: predictability.

In this episode of The Dental Boardroom Podcast, host Wes Read talks with Matt Coggin about how dental education is evolving in today's fast-changing healthcare landscape. They explore how dentists can stay competitive through continuous learning, team training, and effective communication, while navigating challenges like staff turnover, AI integration, and the rise of DSOs. The episode highlights practical strategies for improving clinical skills, patient care, and overall practice performance.Key Topics CoveredEvolution of dental education and continuous learningTraining pathways for early-career dentistsBlended learning: online modules + hands-on workshopsImportance of training the full dental teamEnhancing patient communication for higher case acceptanceIntegrating AI into dental practiceAddressing staff turnover and operational consistencyImpact of DSOs and private equity on dentistryKey TakeawaysContinuous Learning Is Essential: Ongoing education improves both clinical skills and patient outcomes.Support for Early-Career Dentists: Structured training helps new dentists gain confidence in procedures and decision-making.Blended Learning Works Best: Combining online modules, workshops, and coaching reinforces knowledge and practical application.Team Alignment Matters: Training the entire dental team ensures consistent patient experiences and smoother operations.Communication Drives Growth: Clear patient communication increases trust, case acceptance, and overall practice success.AI Is Emerging in Dentistry: Tools can assist diagnostics and treatment planning, but must be integrated thoughtfully.Staff Turnover Requires Planning: Structured onboarding and ongoing training help maintain efficiency despite staffing changes.DSOs and Private Equity Influence Practices: Scalable education systems are key for multi-location or corporate-backed practices.

Dr. Christina Blacher, Founder of Christina Blacher Consulting & Angela Severance, RDA, Training & Education Manager for DSOs at Ivoclar discuss: Education as a strategy not an event Standardizing treatment planning & materials Digital workflow integration Clear aligner therapy focused on function & oral health Access Ivoclar's Learning Pathways: free on-demand webinar series for DSOs - https://dso.pub/4jtCvNj Email Angela Severance, RDA: angela.severance@ivoclar.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-severance/ To learn more about Dr. Christina Blacher or to contact her you can visit her website: https://www.drchristinablacher.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinadean/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/queenofinvisalign/  

On today's episode, we're sharing a special DSN webinar featuring Dr. Mark Costes and Kyle Francis, founder of Professional Transition Strategies, titled Mastering Your Practice Valuation: What Today's Buyers Are Actually Looking For. With over 600 dental transitions and 25 practices owned, Kyle brings unmatched insight into how valuations really work in today's changing landscape. Together, Mark and Kyle explore why the old method of valuing practices based on collections is outdated, and how modern buyers—especially DSOs and private equity groups—assess value through profitability, scalability, and risk. They break down the differences between doctor-to-doctor sales and private equity-backed deals, explain what seller discretionary earnings and EBITDA actually mean, and share how practice size, location, payer mix, and clinical capacity influence multiples. Whether you're planning to sell soon or years from now, this conversation is packed with strategies to make your practice more attractive and maximize its value. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

With the Oscars just around the corner, Matt, Jake, and Christine borrow a page from Rotten Tomatoes to rate some of the most common financial decisions dentists make. From 401(k)s and brokerage accounts to the often-overlooked importance of bookkeeping and financial organization, they break down which strategies actually hold up over time. They also dive into big-picture business decisions facing practice owners today, including marketing investments, expansion opportunities, DSOs, and the pros and cons of owning your practice building. Which financial strategies are fresh and which ones do we think deserve a thumbs-down? Listen to find out! Book a free consultation with a CFP® advisor who only works with dentists. Get an objective financial assessment and learn how Dentist Advisors can help you live your rich life.

This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Mustafa Shah-Khan, DDS PA, Founder of Simplify Dentistry, Key Opinion Leader (“KOL”) for Komet USA, and practicing general and restorative dentist in Charlotte, North Carolina. Dr. Shah-Khan is a nationally recognized author and advocate for independent dental practitioners, focused on clinical excellence, operations, and entrepreneurial growth. In this episode, Dr. Shah-Khan shares his journey from clinician to community builder and discusses the shift from owning a dental practice to building a true dental business. The conversation explores associates, DSOs, financial mindset, entrepreneurship outside the operatory, and how dentists can design careers with more autonomy, balance, and long-term freedom. To learn more about Dr. Mustafa Shah-Khan and Simplify Dentistry, visit: Website: https://www.simplifydds.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/16CznwDdEx/ YouTube: https://youtube.com/@simplifydds?si=c4S00rM4_zk-hiP9 Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

Send a textWe're so excited to welcome HealthStream co-founder Samantha Strain to the show to talk about everything you ever wanted to know about DSOs!

What if the smartest way to build a dental group right now is to keep your clinics close, your service boutique, and your metrics painfully simple? We sit down with Dr Smeeter Mera to unpack a practical blueprint for modern DSOs and independent groups that want strong EBITDA without losing their soul. The market looks different after COVID and Brexit, and old assumptions about city‑centre sites, rapid rollups, and one‑size‑fits‑all staffing no longer hold.We start with geography as strategy: clusters within 30 minutes unlock shared teams, rotating specialists, and agile diaries. From there, we make the case for quality over headcount—grow capacity inside great locations before chasing more leases. Patient experience becomes the moat: a calm front of house, warm phone etiquette, and reception spaces that feel like an oasis rather than an ICU. Those small touches drive recall, reviews, and the signal clinicians trust most: consistently full books. When patients choose to rebook with the same dentist, revenue predictability follows.Location strategy has shifted too. With hybrid work thinning city footfall, we favour high‑density residential areas, strong suburban high streets, and dependable anchors like supermarkets that never stopped trading. On staffing, flexibility wins: split shifts, school‑friendly mornings, and weekend crews widen the talent pool and cut churn. To scale without draining culture, plant owner‑operator energy in each site through meaningful incentives or equity. And skip the rookie mistake of single‑vendor convenience—triangulate every major spend and build a reliable supplier book.If you're weighing your first squat or tuning a growing group, this conversation lays out a clear, field‑tested path: cluster your sites, obsess over experience, measure recall and chair occupancy, and let full books be your north star. Enjoyed the episode? Follow, share with a colleague, and leave a quick review—what's the one change you'd make to your patient journey this month? If you require any help, don't hesitate to reach out to the Samera team at www.samera.co.uk. We are all here to help you! Thank you, The Samera Team

Dr. Lincoln Harris, Founder and CEO of Ripe Global, shares his remarkable journey from practicing in remote Australia to revolutionizing dental education for DSOs across America. He discusses: Aviation principles & simulation technology Performance-based learning Measuring educational success & EBITDA growth To learn more visit https://www.ripeglobal.com/ You can also reach out to Dr. Roshan Parikh at roshan.parikh@ripeglobal.com , Dr. Lincoln Harris at lincoln.harris@ripeglobal.com or Kim Toovey at kim.toovey@ripeglobal.com Don't miss part two of this conversation featuring chief clinical officers sharing their real-world training results. Subscribe to our channel for more episodes and stay updated on the latest DSO news, insights, and events! If you like our podcast, please give us a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review on iTunes https://apple.co/2Nejsfa and a Thumbs Up on YouTube.      

The loan bill hits before your handpiece warms up—and it's bigger than your first apartment. We sat down with Dr. Alan Mead of the Very Dental Podcast to unpack the sticker shock of modern dental education, the real math behind associate versus owner income, and how to build skills that actually move your take-home. No five-step frameworks, just honest stories, practical tactics, and plenty of laughs to keep it human.We start with the big question: is dentistry still worth it when new grads face $4–5k monthly payments? From there, we break down the critical early decisions—whether to chase ownership for upside or remain an associate and become indispensable. You'll hear why leadership and communication pay as well as implants and endo, how to structure CE so it pays you back, and what case selection looks like when you need wins fast. We also talk about DSOs: why they can accelerate skill development and production, and how to spot the burnout traps before they grind your spark into dust.Skill building is a theme throughout: stacking meaningful repetitions, documenting questions in real time, and cornering instructors until ambiguity dies. We share the value of curation—picking a clear clinical lane, aligning your systems and team, and letting focus become your competitive edge. Along the way, we swap dental school war stories, joke about dentists opening doomed restaurants, and remind ourselves that humor is a survival skill when the numbers get heavy.Whether you're a new dentist staring down a $500k note or a seasoned clinician wondering if ownership still makes sense, you'll leave with a clearer playbook: pick a lane, get the reps, invest in communication, and let the value drive the income. If you're ready to design a practice that buys back your time and sanity, subscribe, share this episode with a colleague, and leave us a review—then book a strategy call at dentalpracticeheroes.com/strategy.Join us for Free Live Trainings and Community Discussion in the DPH Hero Collective on the DPH App.  Click Here to Join! Take Control of Your Practice and Your Life We help dentists take more time off while making more money through systematization, team empowerment, and creating leadership teams. Ready to build a practice that works for you? Visit www.DentalPracticeHeroes.com to learn more.

Welcome to the first episode of Group Dentistry Now & Black Talon Security's Dental Cyber Watch Live.  As cybersecurity incidents rise in frequency and complexity, the burden of defense has shifted from the server room to the boardroom. In this first video episode, Gary Salman (CEO, Black Talon Security), Shawn Manis (CIO, Chord Specialty Dental Partners), and Bill Neumann (CEO, Group Dentistry Now) discuss why executive accountability is the defining theme for DSOs of all sizes in 2026. The trio discusses: The Accountability Inflection Point Breaking Down Silos Cyber Risk Rating Proactive vs. Reactive  To learn more visit https://www.blacktalonsecurity.com/     

In this episode of The Stress-Free Dentist Podcast, Dr. Eric Block sits down with executive coach Tom Passalacqua to explore the emotional and leadership challenges dentists face at every stage of their careers. From imposter syndrome and self-doubt to practice ownership and professional growth, Tom shares powerful insights on how clarity, awareness, and intentional goal-setting can help dentists lead with confidence instead of overwhelm. Drawing from his background in education, dental sales, DSOs, and executive coaching, Tom explains how coaching differs from consulting, why emotions often derail progress, and how dentists can break big goals into actionable steps. This episode is a must-listen for dentists who feel stuck, stressed, or uncertain—and are ready to regain clarity, confidence, and control in their professional and personal lives.  

Jonathan Tyroch and Joe Fox are joined by Jake Berry, Chief Development Officer, as well as Omar Jaroun, Vice President of Business Development, for a roundtable conversation on what's changing in the dental space and what dentists can expect heading into 2026. The group breaks down what they're hearing from thousands of doctors across the country, and why the DSO landscape is shifting again. The episode also discusses what's happening behind the scenes in private equity, why some DSOs are struggling, and what that could mean for dentists considering a transition. Insightful and easy to follow throughout, this episode offers a look at the current dental market and the trends shaping what partnership will look like in the years ahead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------  Subscribe & Listen: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/69Dz26hgC9D6YqwN8JMDBV Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mb2-underground/id1747349567 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow MB2 Dental on Social: MB2 Dental: mb2dental.com Instagram: instagram.com/mb2dental Facebook: facebook.com/mb2dental YouTube: youtube.com/@mb2dental LinkedIn: linkedin.com/mb2-dental

In this episode, I sit down with John Sanders, founder of RevKey, a digital advertising agency built specifically to help therapists and mental health professionals grow their practices using Google Ads—ethically, transparently, and profitably.John founded RevKey in 2018 after seeing too many healthcare professionals waste money chasing clicks, impressions, and vanity metrics that never turned into real patients. What started as a solo operation has grown into a 10-person team focused on clarity, simplicity, and data-driven decision-making in highly regulated, HIPAA-sensitive environments.Throughout the conversation, John breaks down what ethical marketing actually means in healthcare today, why so many practices struggle with Google Ads, and how smaller practices can compete against large, well-funded organizations without matching their budgets. As AI continues to reshape Google Ads, John also shares where healthcare marketers should be paying attention—and where caution is required.This episode is especially valuable for therapists, dentists, and medical professionals who want measurable growth without compromising trust or compliance.What's the biggest mistake healthcare professionals make when running their own Google Ads—and how can they fix it?What ethical, data-driven marketing really looks like in modern healthcareHow small practices can compete with big-budget DSOs and healthcare groupsHow AI is changing Google Ads—and where healthcare marketers should focus right nowThe first three marketing actions practices should take to drive growth in the next 90 days

If you're trying to scale your dental practice by copying what worked for another dentist, this episode will save you years of stress. “Copy-paste scaling” looks smart on paper, new locations, bigger teams, more production, but it often builds a bigger hamster wheel that drains your energy, wrecks your marriage, and destroys your health. In this conversation, we expose the real reason most practices stall: it's not a production problem… it's leadership dressed up in a white coat. Eric Moore from Tower Leadership breaks down why templates fail in dentistry, why strategy must be personal, and how the best practice growth starts with one question: What do you want?  Whether you're a solo doc trying to regain sanity, building a multi-doctor practice, or thinking about DSOs/private equity, you'll learn how to scale with clarity, without becoming the bottleneck. If you want practice growth, better systems, more profit, and a business that supports your life (instead of consuming it), this episode gives you the mindset shift and the framework to do it right. You'll Learn:  → Why dentists are drawn to templates and “proven systems,” and how that mindset backfires when your ambition, family life, stress tolerance, and leadership style don't match the person you're copying.  → The difference between the “science” of business metrics and the “art” of scaling, strategy, differentiation, culture, motivation, and attracting top talent.  → Why every business should start with an exit, how reverse engineering your end goal creates faster and more efficient growth. → Why the foundation of real practice expansion is building the leader who great people choose to follow. To connect with Dr. Buske follow the links below -  LinkedIn Instagram Facebook Limitless Dentist Academy Join Dental Syndicate HERE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode of The Dental Boardroom Podcast, we take a deep dive into the Q4 2025 State of the U.S. Dental Economy Report from the ADA's Health Policy Institute to understand where dentistry stands heading into 2026.Using AI-powered analysis, we explore how dental practices are navigating rising costs, staffing shortages, flat insurance reimbursements, and shifting patient behavior. While many dentists are feeling financial pressure, the data reveal a profession that remains resilient, adaptable, and focused on long-term growth.Despite inflation and operational challenges, patient demand continues to rise, proving that oral healthcare remains a top priority. This episode highlights why 2026 may be a pivotal year for practice owners willing to rethink their business models and embrace strategic change.Key Topics CoveredQ4 2025 dental industry performancePatient spending trends and demandThe “fiscal squeeze” facing practicesInsurance reimbursement challengesStaffing shortages and labor market shiftsDifferences between private practices and DSOsTechnology vs relationship-driven growthDentist confidence and investment outlook for 2026Key TakeawaysPatient Demand Remains Strong: Dental spending is up 9% compared to pre-pandemic levels (inflation-adjusted), showing that patients continue to prioritize oral health.The Fiscal Squeeze is Real: Rising supply and labor costs combined with flat insurance reimbursements are shrinking profit margins across the industry.Confidence is Under Pressure: Many dentists are busy but earning less, leading to frustration and declining economic confidence.Staffing Remains a Challenge: Hygienists are still extremely difficult to hire, while assistant hiring shows slight improvement.Uneven Growth Creates Opportunity: Some practices have excess capacity, creating opportunities for better marketing and patient conversion.Fear Limits Major Changes: Although many dentists want to drop low-paying insurance networks, few actually take action due to uncertainty.2026 Shows Signs of Optimism: More dentists plan to hire, invest in equipment, and restructure networks—signaling belief in long-term demand.DSOs and Private Practices Differ in Strategy: DSOs rely more on technology and automation, while private practices emphasize relationships and personalized care.Patients Value Dentistry More Than Insurers Do: Consumer spending proves that patients...

On today's episode, Mark sits down with Dr. Vishal Sharma, Director of Clinical Education and Operations at Spear Education, to explore the evolving landscape of dental education. Dr. Sharma shares his journey from building and scaling private practices to leading clinical education initiatives across DSOs, and now helping shape the next generation of learning at Spear.  The conversation dives deep into hybrid education models, the growing role of AI in diagnostics and training, challenges facing early career dentists, and why blending in-person mentorship with virtual and self-paced learning is the future of dentistry. They also discuss how technology, efficiency, and accountability are redefining both clinical excellence and career satisfaction for today's dentists. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.speareducation.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

Selling your practice can look like a financial win—and still feel like a personal loss if you choose the wrong partner. In this episode, Brian Colao, one of the earliest architects of the DSO legal framework, unpacks what most dentists misunderstand about consolidation, private equity, and the true risks hiding behind "fair value" offers. With nearly three decades advising DSOs and representing more than 780 dental organizations, Brian brings rare clarity to a space filled with noise, fear, and half-truths. If you like this episode, here are more episodes we think you'll enjoy: Ep #571 - When The Practice Doesn't Need You Anymore – Dr. Dylan & Kelsey Everett Ep #550 - Every Dentist Must Master Leadership, Exit Strategies and Burnout – Dr. John Meis Check out the show notes for more information! P.S. Whenever you're ready, here are some other ways I can help fast track you to your Freedom goal (you're closer than you think): 1. Schedule a Call with My Team: If you're tired of running on the hamster wheel, and are looking for a proven blueprint to create more freedom and reduce dependency on your practice income, schedule a call with my team to learn more. 2. Get Your Dentist Retirement Survival Guide: The winds of economic change are here, and now is the time to move to higher ground. This guide gives you the steps to protect your retirement, your family, and your peace of mind. Get the 25-point checklist here. 3. Get Your Free Retirement Scorecard: Benchmark your retirement and wealth-building against hundreds of other practice professionals, and get personalized feedback on your biggest opportunities and leverage points. Click here to take the 3 minute assessment and get your scorecard.

What if attracting better patients, reducing no-shows, and cutting insurance headaches could all happen before someone ever walks into your practice? In this episode, Dr. Len Tau sits down with Tobi Bosede, Founder and CEO of Dental Find, to explore how smart marketplaces, prepaid care, and membership-style models are reshaping dental growth. Tobi shares her journey from building AI systems for Fortune 500 companies to solving one of dentistry's biggest pain points: patient acquisition without no-shows, awkward financial conversations, or insurance dependency. This conversation dives into scaling intentionally, avoiding burnout, and building businesses that actually last.   What You'll Learn How prepaid dental marketplaces reduce no-shows and increase case acceptance Why fee-for-service growth matters more than ever The key differences between Dental Find and traditional marketplaces How dentists can improve patient retention without relying on insurance Practical lessons on scaling a startup without burning out Why relationships matter more than products in dental growth   Key Takeaways 01:45 Scaling Smart: From Startup to Sustainable Growth 03:00 What Dental Find Is and How It Works 03:55 Dental Find vs Traditional Marketplaces 07:35 Why Dentistry Needed a New Model 10:10 Current Markets and Expansion Plans 13:06 Reducing No-Shows and Increasing Retention 14:50 Getting Paid Faster Without Insurance 16:27 From Idea to Market: Building a Startup 19:20 Team Building, DSOs, and Strategic Partnerships 24:02 Burnout, Balance, and Sustaining Momentum 31:42 Lightning Round with Tobi Bosede   — Connect with Tobi Founder & CEO, Dental Find Website: https://www.dentalfynd.com Email: tobi@dentalfynd.com   — Learn proven dental marketing strategies and online reputation management techniques at DrLenTau.com. This podcast is sponsored by Dental Intelligence. Learn more here. This podcast is sponsored by CallRail, call tracking & lead conversion software for dentists. Find out more here. Raving Patients Podcast is your go-to place for the latest and best dental marketing strategies that will help you skyrocket your practice. Follow us for more!

On today's episode, Dr. Mark Costes is joined by Bill Keith and Ben Kacos for an in-depth crash course on DSOs—what they are, how they've evolved, and why every dentist should understand their growing impact on the profession. This conversation dives into the history of dental consolidation, the rise of private equity in the industry, and what those infamous EBITDA multiples really mean for your practice valuation.  The trio compares doctor-to-doctor transitions with DSO sales, laying out the pros, cons, and critical factors like tax strategy, risk mitigation, and personal goals. With real-world insights, valuation math, and clear advice on navigating offers, this is the foundational DSO knowledge every growth-minded dentist needs. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

This week's episode dives into a topic most of us avoid—but absolutely can't afford to ignore: wills, trusts, asset protection, and what happens to your family if you don't plan ahead. My guest is Trevor Kuresa, attorney and founder of Hibiscus Legal, who also happens to be the one I personally trust with all my estate planning. Trevor breaks down the uncomfortable (and sometimes heartbreaking) realities of what happens when people die—or become incapacitated—without the right legal structures in place.We cover everything from choosing guardians for your kids, to irrevocable vs. revocable trusts, to family LLCs and asset protection post-OSO sale. We also talk about Trevor's new offering: fractional general counsel services—so you can finally have a lawyer on call without the big firm price tag. If you've ever said, “I'll get to it eventually,” this episode might be the wake-up call that saves your family years of pain.Quotes“I've seen families torn apart because no guardians were named. It dragged through the courts for three years—and the kids paid the price.”— Trevor Kuresa“Even a simple trust can prevent probate, protect your assets, and make life so much easier for the people you love.”— Trevor KuresaKey TakeawaysIntro (00:00)Why this episode might make you uncomfortable—but could save your family (00:01)Trevor's backstory: law school, DSOs, and why he left it all behind (01:51)Why single people still need a will (04:34)What happens if you die with minor children and no guardians named (08:13)The danger of boilerplate wills and online templates (09:51)Revocable trusts vs. irrevocable trusts (12:34)Family LLCs and passing wealth with control (17:29)Why OSO/DSO sales require next-level asset planning (18:48)How to store your legal documents for emergencies (24:24)Who should have access to your estate plan? (25:00)The 4 legal docs everyone should have (20:43)Healthcare directives and medical power of attorney (22:02)Trevor's “Fractional General Counsel” model for orthodontists (30:21)A real-life story of getting dropped by insurance—and how a lawyer could've stopped it (34:56)How often should you revisit your documents? (38:44)Trevor's offer to review your existing documents—free of charge (39:38)Additional ResourcesIf you've got a practice, a spouse, a house, or especially kids—and you don't have a proper estate plan—you're rolling the dice every day. Whether it's a power of attorney, a trust, or a plan for what happens after a DSO sale, Trevor has seen the worst-case scenarios up close. Don't be one of them.

Join Ivoclar (AND US!) this February at LMT Lab Day in Chicago. Ivoclar will be offering 16 different educational lectures over the three-day event, giving dental professionals plenty of opportunities to learn, connect, and grow. Visit labday.com/Ivoclar to view the full schedule and register, and be sure to stop by and see the Ivoclar team in the Windy City. Cal-Lab Association Meeting in Chicago Feb 19-20 https://cal-lab.org/ LMT Lab Day Chicago Feb 19-21 https://lmtmag.com/lmtlabday Almost three years after his last appearance, Rob Nazzal returns to Voices From the Bench, this time joined by Mike Alessio of Bonadent Dental Laboratory (https://bonadent.com/). The conversation dives deep into lab leadership, culture, transparency, and how data—when used the right way—can empower teams instead of policing them. Mike shares his 32-year journey with Bonadent, from starting as a pickup-and-delivery driver to leading the Danaren division, and explains how a family-owned lab has grown into a multi-location organization without losing its people-first culture. Rob and Mike unpack the realities of tracking productivity on the lab floor, the challenges of sharing metrics openly, and why transparency builds trust, alignment, and accountability when done with intention. The discussion shifts to quality vs. productivity, the difficulty of truly measuring “quality,” and why labs must lead with craftsmanship before numbers. They also explore how digital workflows, QC processes, and proactive communication with doctors impact remakes, efficiency, and relationships. On the sales side, Rob breaks down how icortica (https://www.icortica.com/voices) helps labs grow by focusing on existing customers, improving retention, and giving sales teams real-time insights into what conversations they should be having—right before they walk into an office. Mike and Elvis share firsthand experiences using icortica (https://www.icortica.com/voices), highlighting how real-time data, centralized notes, and smart alerts change the way sales reps prepare, prioritize, and perform. The episode wraps with a look at Bonadent's unique culture (including their famous converted Walmart lab), long employee tenure, and why investing in people, transparency, and the right technology is the real key to sustainable growth in today's dental lab landscape. If you want to grow your business, you need clear insight into what's happening inside your operation and across your customer journey. That's where Icortica comes in. At Canadian Dental Labs, Icortica has become a cornerstone of how we operate—giving us at-a-glance visibility into performance, helping us focus our efforts, spot opportunities early, and solve problems before they grow. It takes the guesswork out of decision-making and shows us what to do next. Plus, the Icortica team is incredibly responsive and feels like a true partner in our success. If you're serious about growing your business and understanding your customers better, Icortica can get you there. Learn more at icortica.com/voices — Icortica, helping dental labs grow. Special Guests: Mike Alessio and Rob Nazzal.

Join host Tim McNeely and special guest Ian Miller, CEO of Dental Mutuality and Guinness World Records holder, for a high-energy episode that reframes modern dentistry. Ian and Tim dig into how the industry has shifted—driven by DSOs, AI, and new business models—and share practical ways practice owners can find hidden profits, protect EBITDA, and make dentistry enjoyable again. Topics covered include the dual nature of change (both opportunity and threat), how to evaluate and adopt AI and new technologies without getting overwhelmed, and the crucial role of trusted partners or consultants in vetting options for your office. Ian explains why early adoption today looks different and how to decide which innovations actually move the needle for your practice. The conversation highlights often-overlooked profit drivers beyond marketing and production growth: smart cost-savings, staff satisfaction and retention, patient loyalty, and operational tweaks that drop straight to the bottom line. Tim and Ian discuss tariffs, production protection, and why a dollar of cost savings can deliver more immediate impact than a dollar of new revenue. Patient and staff wellbeing are emphasized as central to profit and joy in the office. Ian shares real solutions—like virtual reality from Paper Plane Therapeutics to reduce patient anxiety and lunchtime VR resets for staff—as well as practical sensory changes (colors, smells, music) that improve clinic atmosphere and outcomes. Actionable growth ideas are also explored: community engagement and charitable care as authentic marketing and morale builders, and hands-on tactics like offering custom athletic mouthguards to drive new patient traffic. Ian issues a 28-day challenge to inject fun into the office and invites listeners to try small, immediate changes to see big morale and financial results. Expect an upbeat, solutions-focused episode full of concrete next steps you can use tomorrow—technology evaluation strategies, ways to uncover hidden profits, patient-anxiety tools, staff-retention tips, and how to build a practice that thrives financially and culturally. To learn more about Ian and Dental Mutuality, visit dentalmutuality.com.

On today's episode, Dr. Mark Costes welcomes Dan Van Eps, Senior Director at Henry Schein Dental Practice Transitions, for an in-depth look at the world of dental practice sales, valuations, and the often misunderstood role of brokers. With nearly three decades of experience in the dental space—including founding a dental IT company and helping scale Carr Healthcare Realty—Dan brings a rare, well-rounded perspective to what makes practices valuable and how dentists can successfully navigate a sale.  From breaking down DSO vs. doctor-to-doctor transactions, to why a $2 million practice isn't always worth what you think, this conversation covers everything from valuation strategy, broker fees, and the critical mistakes sellers make by going it alone. Mark and Dan also discuss trends in consolidation, why the startup market is heating up again, and the real meaning behind that elusive 1% dental loan default rate. This episode is packed with practical advice and insider insights for both buyers and sellers alike. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://dentalpracticetransitions.henryschein.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

Laurent and Gerard sit down with Jo-Jo Hubbard, CEO of Electron, to explore why the centre of gravity in the energy transition is shifting decisively toward the distribution grid. Jo-Jo explains why the “last mile” is becoming the true engine of system flexibility, how demand at the edge must become a core resource, and why DSOs aren't confused about flexibility at all — they simply respond to the incentives regulators design. Flexibility, she argues, isn't replacing grid reinforcement but making it smarter, helping utilities target and sequence investments far more efficiently at a time when distribution upgrade costs are rising quickly.We discuss how to escape the sector's obsession with endless pilots, and why real scale only arrives when year-round, rules-based products give suppliers and aggregators the confidence to automate and invest. The conversation then turns to the economics of location — from REMA to zonal pricing — and why congestion at the distribution level is where flexibility competes most effectively with copper. Jo-Jo also lays out what it takes to get millions of households engaged without overwhelming them, making the experience effortless, automated and consistent across retailers.She breaks down the hardest parts of the DER orchestration stack, noting that the real challenge isn't cloud infrastructure but standardising how device capabilities and network constraints are described across a patchwork of utilities. Looking ahead to 2030, Jo-Jo argues that no single asset class “wins”: value depends on time, place and service, with EVs likely providing tens of gigawatts of potential flexibility but orchestration remaining the true hero.We cover the future of interoperability and open data — not via global standards, but through adapters and translation layers similar to those that shaped the internet — and examine the cybersecurity demands of cloud-based orchestration as it becomes critical infrastructure. Jo-Jo also gives a global view of progress, from Australia's rapid adoption to the US's accelerating regulatory push and Europe's mix of strong TSO-level progress but uneven local action. She closes with reflections on whether the centralised grid is dying, who should ultimately control DERs, whether blockchain still has a role, and what a nightmare scenario looks like in a DER-dominated world.A fast, clear, and deeply insightful conversation on the rise of flexibility, the reinvention of the distribution grid, and the technologies and rules needed to orchestrate millions of devices.

In this episode of Beyond Bitewings, we're bringing back some of our favorite advice from our episodes that discussed selling a dental practice to a Dental Support Organization (DSO), highlighting the significant differences between selling to a DSO and an independent buyer. The conversation covers how DSOs value practices using EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation, and Amortization), and why this can result in higher sale prices compared to traditional methods that use a percentage of collections. We also explain the importance of understanding value from the DSO and private equity perspective and warns practice owners about the risks of responding to unsolicited offers without proper representation.The episode addresses key concerns for dentists, such as what to expect after the sale, how contracts are structured, and why it's essential to shop around for multiple offers before committing. They discuss the impact of EBITDA calculations on a practice's valuation, the role of lease agreements when the seller owns their building, and strategies to maximize the value of the transaction. Key Topics Discussed:How DSOs value dental practices using EBITDADifferences between DSO and independent salesThe structure of post-sale contracts and earn-outsPitfalls of responding to unsolicited DSO offersThe importance of getting multiple offers and proper representationEBITDA calculations and their effect on practice valuationLease agreements when the seller owns the buildingAdvice for maximizing practice sale valueThe changing dental industry landscape with the growth of DSOs

On this episode of the Shared Practices Podcast, George sits down with Dr. Aditi Agarwal, co-founder of Practice by Numbers and practicing dentist, to unpack how AI and data are transforming private practice ownership. Aditi shares the origin story of PBN, practical examples of Operations AI, revenue finding, and call analytics, and why embracing technology is becoming essential for private practices competing with DSOs. They close with a candid look at team-led tech adoption and how to reduce stress for your front office while increasing performance.

What's the secret ingredient to happier patients, empowered teams, and tech that works for you in pediatric dentistry?In this episode, Dr. Jackie Wingate lifts the curtain on her transformative journey from rushed, high-volume dentistry to a deeply personal, low-volume approach that puts children and their families at the heart of every visit. Dr. Jackie shares what prompted her to step away from traditional models and meticulously build a practice in Philadelphia's suburbs around quality time with patients, empowering education, and advanced minimally invasive care.Listen as Dr. Jackie reveals the pivotal operational choices that have set her practice apart, including embracing technology, thoughtful outsourcing, and assembling a purpose-driven team every step of the way. Hear about her hands-on methods for minimizing sedation, her unfiltered lessons from both DSOs and private practices, and the small details that make lasting impressions (like an illuminated sign's surprising marketing power.) If you're a dentist or practice owner seeking to move beyond burnout and truly redefine what dental care can look like for kids and parents alike, this conversation is for you!What You'll Learn in This Episode:Why slowing down can transform both patient care and provider satisfaction in dentistryThe vital role of behavior management for positive pediatric dental experiencesHow technology like the Solea laser and AI-driven software streamline operationsThe benefits and pitfalls of various dental practice models, including DSOsSmart strategies for building a cohesive, mission-driven teamThe power of delegating administrative tasks to regain focus on patient careTips for effectively marketing your practice, from word of mouth to visual cuesPractical advice on insurance credentialing and managing parent relationshipsThe impact of open communication about finances with staffHow to create an environment that prioritizes whole-child health and preventative educationTune in now for actionable insights on building a pediatric dental practice that's both fulfilling and truly impactful for you and your patients.‍Sponsors:‍Net32: Founded by a dentist, for dentists. Net32 is the leading online marketplace for dental supplies, helping dental and medical professionals save on high-quality products for over 25 years. Start saving today at: https://www.net32.com/dentalmarketerGuest: Dr. Jackie WingatePractice Name: Groovy Pediatric DentistryCheck out Jackie's Media:‍Website: https://groovyteeth.com/Email: drjackie@groovyteeth.com‍Host: Michael AriasJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍Love the Podcast? Let Us Know How We're Doing on Apple Podcasts!‍

Dr. Glenn Vo sits down with Dr. Brett Kessler, Past President of the American Dental Association, for a candid conversation about what really happens inside the ADA advocacy, budgets, member value, and why unified dentistry matters right now. They unpack: ⦁ How Dr. Kessler's leadership journey started (and why “getting involved” isn't a secret club) ⦁ What the ADA tackled this past year: wellness, advocacy, fluoride legislation, and organizational restructuring ⦁ Why member dues matter and what happens when dentists “check out” ⦁ How the ADA approaches DSOs, insurance, and professional autonomy ⦁ What's next: Oral Health 2050 and the future of oral health delivery

When big dental chains focus on numbers and efficiency, what happens when patients crave genuine connection instead?In this episode, Dr. Whitney and Steve Sebree share their journey building a private dental practice in Surprise, Arizona, known for its warm, personalized approach. They discuss the importance of community connection, how they foster long-term patient relationships, and why putting Dr. Whitney's face front and center in their marketing helps attract retirees seeking attentive, nonjudgmental care (often in contrast to experiences at larger DSOs.)Dr. Whitney and Steve dive deep into the realities of running a small private practice in a DSO-saturated area, revealing how quality care and trust win over patients despite competitive pricing challenges. They openly discuss the impact of team changes on their systems, the lessons learned from these challenges, and how adapting with better processes and hiring has made their practice stronger. The conversation wraps up with actionable wisdom on compassionate communication, the crucial role of mentorship, and why giving yourself grace is essential when building a practice (and a life) together.What You'll Learn in This Episode:How to create a community-focused, patient-first dental practiceSmart marketing tactics that resonate with retirees and new patientsAdvantages and challenges of practicing among Dental Service OrganizationsThe power of free second opinions to establish credibility and trustWhy longer consultations can transform patient relationshipsLessons learned from staff turnover and operational hiccupsHow process-driven hiring improves practice managementSimple strategies to boost new patient conversion over the phoneBalancing business partnership and marriage in a high-touch practiceAdvice for new dentists on embracing mistakes and enjoying the journeyHit play to uncover practical, heartfelt strategies for building a dental practice focused on people, not just numbers.‍Sponsors:‍Net32: Founded by a dentist, for dentists. Net32 is the leading online marketplace for dental supplies, helping dental and medical professionals save on high-quality products for over 25 years. Start saving today at: https://www.net32.com/dentalmarketerGuest: Dr. Whitney and Steve SebreePractice Name: Breez DentalCheck out Whitney and Steve's Media:‍Website: https://breezdental.com/‍Host: Michael AriasJoin my newsletter: https://thedentalmarketer.lpages.co/newsletter/‍Join this podcast's Facebook Group: The Dental Marketer Society‍Love the Podcast? Let Us Know How We're Doing on Apple Podcasts!‍

Orthodontic practice management expert Chris Bentson, Founder, Bentson Copple Patterson & Associates, joins hosts Dr. Leon Klempner and Amy Epstein on the Golden Age of Orthodontics podcast to analyze the competitive landscape facing private practice orthodontics in 2026. With nearly four decades of experience in practice valuation and business strategy, Bentson shares critical data showing 3.5% growth in patient starts after three years of decline. The conversation explores how DSO consolidation is reshaping the specialty, why digital orthodontics technology is essential for differentiation, and what data-driven decision-making reveals about successful practices versus struggling ones. Bentson discusses the impact of federal student loan caps on new residents, the lifecycle of consolidation, and why practices that embrace consumer experience innovations, such as remote monitoring, consistently outperform competitors across every operational metric.What you will Learn in this Episode:✅ How independent orthodontic practices can compete effectively against corporate consolidation by leveraging digital technology and improving the consumer experience throughout the patient journey✅ Why practices that engage with consultants and implement data-driven decision making consistently outperform in every operational and financial metric, including practice overhead management✅ What the latest industry data reveals about practice growth strategies for 2026, including why patient starts are finally showing positive growth after three consecutive years of decline✅ How new federal student loan caps will impact residents and create opportunities for marketing for orthodontists who want to attract young doctors seeking private practice Subscribe to the Golden Age of Orthodontics and our sister podcast, Practice Talk, hosted by Lacie Ellis, wherever you listen to stay updated on orthodontic innovation and real-world practice strategies. Visit People in Practice for more insights and to connect with our team for practice growth solutions.TIMESTAMPS: 00:00 Discussion featuring orthodontic practice management expert Chris Bentson, discussing data-driven decision making that will shape private practice orthodontics in 202608:33 The competitive reality for private practice orthodontics, the impact of DSO consolidation and increased overhead pressure11:36 2025 growth data showing a 3.5% increase in production and 2% growth in patient starts, signaling positive momentum for orthodontic practice management in 202619:02 Discussion of why only 20% of orthodontists engage consultants, OSOs and DSOs, and data-driven decision-making and marketing for orthodontists23:31 Analysis of new federal student loan caps, including how private practice orthodontics owners can attract young doctors and the future of practice valuation 30:31 Digital orthodontics investment strategy for new practice owners, using both custom braces and clear aligner therapy, is necessary 39:26 Discovering the “Why” in becoming an orthodontistKEY TAKEAWAYS:

If you've ever felt that little itch in the back of your brain—the one that whispers, "I love being an orthodontist... but I can't imagine doing this full-time for another 30 years"—you're not alone. In fact, you're part of a generational shift. In this episode of 5 Minute Friday, I unpack why Orthodontic Support Organizations (OSOs) and DSOs are growing rapidly—and why that's not a bad thing.This isn't about promoting any particular group. It's about being honest with ourselves and understanding that how we want to work is changing. I've spoken to hundreds of orthodontists who feel exactly the way you do: deeply passionate about the profession but uninterested in grinding until age 80. Let's explore the real reason OSO/DSO interest is surging—and how generational mindset, lifestyle goals, and future planning are all connected.QUOTES"The first thought you had when I said 50 years as an orthodontist was probably dread. And that's okay. That instinct? It's normal." — Dr. Glenn Krieger"If you're between 37 and 42, you're not thinking of retiring next year—but you are thinking about what comes next. That's smart planning, not early exit." — Dr. Glenn KriegerKey TakeawaysIntro & Why This Conversation Matters (00:00)What's fueling the rise of OSOs and DSOs (00:36)The generational mindset shift: Millennials don't want the 50-year grind (01:52)Understanding the evolution of social capital and work-life values (03:40)What orthodontists are really telling me in their 30s and 40s (06:20)Why now is a great time to evaluate your future options (07:00)Additional ResourcesIf anything I shared today struck a chord, don't keep it to yourself.

Dr. Pia Lieb returns for a second part on the podcast. In this episode, she talks about being obsessed with your craft, and why that extra 10% for patients will take you miles. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: Kiera Dent (00:10) I love that you, ⁓ I think this is probably what's made you really great. I don't know. I've heard a lot about you. But I think what you do is you make sure that the patients are obsessed with the results and not that Dr. Pia is obsessed. Like you're obsessed with the craftsmanship of what you've done.   You're really talented at that. But like hearing that you let people walk out and go try these on and what is it going to be like before you do it? That to me says that you are so obsessed about the outcome and the result for the patient. And then your job is to make sure you have the most excellent craftsmanship, the best product, the best techniques, the best method to get them the outcome they want. And I think hearing that, I'm just so proud of you. And I'm so grateful to hear that there are clinicians in our industry that   are obsessed about that rather than the reverse. Because I think some people are obsessed about maybe the dollar, maybe about doing these types of cases, but they're not the best at it, or this is what I think that they should look like. You really want to make sure that that patient is like a walking raving fan of you before you even do the work on them. And that I think is very special about you.   Dr Pia (01:17) Thanks, but you know, I like to say that, you know, like, the thing that people don't understand is I'm technically the Hermes of dentistry because I, it takes a long time to make a Birkin, right? It's all made by hand. So are the veneers, hence why it's so hard to get one. But look, I   Kiera Dent (01:39) Mm-hmm.   Dr Pia (01:42) 22 years old and it still looks brand new because it's the quality of the craftsmanship you know and I tell all my patients you should get anywhere between 20 and 25 years out of the mirror okay this whole nonsense of five years and ten years that's because they want to redo the case and for you to pay them again if you're doing good quality work the only reason they should be replaced is because you have recession due to old age   Kiera Dent (01:55) Wow.   Mm-hmm.   Wow. And you don't have any issues with these super, super thin ones popping off.   Dr Pia (02:17) No, because okay, let me let me explain to you. Let me explain to you physics. Okay. Okay, do you know why they pop off?   Kiera Dent (02:19) Let's talk about this. I'm so, cause a lot of people haven't popped off and it's so scary. So I'm like, let's talk about this.   You know, this is why I'm asking you. Cause I don't like, feel my guess is that they were not bonded on correctly. And that's my guess. Okay. I'm ready.   Dr Pia (02:28) Okay.   No, it's, two things. There's two things. That's   one, but that's the second one. Right. But let me explain to you. Do you remember when you were in high school and we went to, ⁓   Kiera Dent (02:37) Okay.   Dr Pia (02:43) ⁓ chemistry and we had the microscope with the two glass slabs and we were looking for amoebas and all that stuff. Okay, remember how we were all a painting that you know what and we all tried to pry those two glass slabs apart and it never worked? Well that's the same principle with veneers. The thinner they are the stronger they are.   Kiera Dent (02:51) Yep.   Yeah   Fascinating.   Dr Pia (03:06) Okay   and I'll tell you why because teeth you know because you're in the business so teeth we all have ligaments right the teeth are hard it's a hard structure the bone is a hard structure so we have the dental ligaments right they're horizontal they're transversal so those are like the shock absorbers that hold the tooth inside the bone socket. Now   Kiera Dent (03:12) Mm-hmm. Right.   Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Dr Pia (03:30) when you're speaking and when you're eating those teeth move microns not visible to the eye but your teeth have mobility just like trees have mobility in the wind right we don't see the trees move unless it's a hundred mile an hour winds but if you have a five mile an hour wind you don't see that tree moving right but it does move   Kiera Dent (03:44) Mm-hmm.   Right.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Dr Pia (03:56) So   when you're doing these 3D print and you're filing like the turkey teeth where you have the little pegs left and the ratio of tooth to porcelain is 50-50 or you're having 60-40 or 70-30 that 3D printed porcelain does not flex.   Kiera Dent (04:05) Yep.   Makes sense.   Mm-hmm.   Dr Pia (04:23) but your tooth does. So that's the number one issue why they pop off. The thicker they are, the easier they'll pop off. And the number two reason is the dentist has no idea about occlusion. Because if you have a premature contact or you have lateral excursions or a protrusive, you're going to pop those off like there's no tomorrow.   Kiera Dent (04:23) True.   Interesting.   Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes.   Totally. Yeah.   Dr Pia (04:51) So these are   the basic principles. If you don't know occlusion, you shouldn't be doing dentistry. I'm talking about GPs or it's the holy grail of this profession. Occlusion, occlusion, occlusion.   Kiera Dent (05:03) And I will tell you as a patient who has the most obnoxious bite, ⁓ there are dentists who do no occlusion and there are dentists who don't because my bite you adjust one teeny tiny little micron and the whole bite gets thrown off and they're like, no care, it should be fine. And I'm like, I can always tell if you're just doing blue paper and you're having me bite chew all around, I know you don't understand occlusion because I'm like, you're never going to get it. I'm going to be, you're dancing all the way around. Like from the patient who has sat there,   four hours upon hours and had to find other dentists because the dentist who thought they could do it truly can't do it. And this isn't me being a jerk. This is me being the patient who has to suffer through a dentist who doesn't understand occlusion. Like what you just said as a patient, ⁓ and like there's some, know, you can have it like completely off and like, yeah, it feels great. And then you have patients like myself that teeny, teeny, teeny tiny. I can feel it. You can't even find it. And I'm like, no, it's off. My bite is not, my teeth are not coming together.   Dr Pia (05:59) You always know, the patient always knows. They're always right.   Kiera Dent (06:02) always. And please don't have me laying back.   Please don't have me lay back. Let me sit up. Let me lay back. Let me tell you on both of them, because it's always different. And they're like, no, it's good. And I'm like, it's not. You're not sitting in my mouth.   Dr Pia (06:09) Yeah!   Because   you most probably have long centric, right? So you have one occlusion when your head is back and you have a different occlusion when your head is forward. Now, if that's the case, you need to check both.   Kiera Dent (06:18) Mm-hmm.   Absolutely.   Correct. Thank you. Preach, please, for the patients like myself. These are the pieces. And I don't disagree because when I have seen dentists and they're not checking that and the patients are constantly popping off, I'm like, just maybe check to see how those teeth are hitting in all directions because they will pop.   Dr Pia (06:43) ⁓ but let   me interrupt you for one thing. The other thing that's an issue, okay, if they do it and you're anesthetized, you're not going to get a good read. You always have to call the patient back the next day and check the occlusion again in all the positions when they're not anesthetized because I will guarantee you on my career that it will be off.   Kiera Dent (06:53) ⁓ no, never.   Yep. Yep.   Always. And they're like, no, you can bite when you're numb. And I'm like, I don't even know how I'm biting. I have no clue. I know I'm biting differently. Preach. These are the things and the conversations that I've said. And having somebody like yourself who's so good at this. I mean, you guys, has a referral-based practice. Like people are flying in to see her. I can see why, because how you speak about this is so different. And I think today, one, I hope people are inspired of things to do, things to not do.   different ways to do this. I also love the risk that you took. I love the growth. I love the determination of self of I will be the best. You have the passion. You've got the grit. You've got the tenacity. I have doctors who are great surgeons that are truly incredible at this. I've got doctors that are amazing at occlusion. I've got doctors that are amazing at fillings. There's a doctor and one of his patients said like, have the smoothest fillings in all the land. And he's like, that's really weird. I had him fix a filling that chipped.   And I'm not going to lie, he has the smoothest fillings in all the land. Like I've never felt a feeling as smooth as this man did for me.   Dr Pia (08:12) That's because he polished it afterwards.   99% don't polish them. You know, I had a colleague, checked, he did a, we put a crown in and I'm like, Joe, can we polish it? He goes, no, you're good to go. I'm like, no, I'm not. He's like, but I polished it. I'm like, okay, there is a porcelain polishing kit that you've got to go red, blue, white.   Kiera Dent (08:18) I was shocked.   Hahaha   Dr Pia (08:40) and the white has to be on low rpms and you have to make sure that it's shiny and polished and he's like i don't have the patience for that go do it yourself in the office and i did   Kiera Dent (08:52) But I think like that even I feel like dentistry you It to me what I'm hearing is a lot of dentists. It sounds like go 90 % of the way But it's like that extra 10 % is what really in my opinion makes a lot of difference for patients It's doing the polishing. It's doing the small finesse like you you're working in such a small space anyway Why not make it absolutely perfect and dr. P? think you really inspired me to even look at myself in my life of where's that extra 10 % that I could really just make a dazzle Where could I really make it shine?   It's not, it doesn't take a lot of time, but it does take intentionality. So as we wrap today, this has been such a fascinating podcast and I've absolutely loved it. And I just appreciate your time. I want you to wrap with, you can do do's, don'ts or a mix of the in between. What should people who are doing cosmetic dentistry from your perspective as truly one of the most expert people I've ever met do in cosmetic dentistry or don't or you're welcome to do a mixture as just a quick wrap rattle of things that you've seen in your career.   Dr Pia (09:48) Before   we do that, want to talk to you, I think that we should do this again because I want to talk to you about DSOs and private practice.   Kiera Dent (09:56) Mm, yeah.   That is very fascinating. This is heavy on my mind of all different topics currently in the landscape, which I don't disagree with you.   Dr Pia (10:08) Yeah, that's things are things are changing and not for the better.   Kiera Dent (10:12) They are.   Yeah, absolutely. That will be it.   Dr Pia (10:17) Because I'm a dinosaur   now. I mean, there's very few of us that do handmade work anymore. So getting back to your question. Look, I   Kiera Dent (10:22) I don't disagree.   Dr Pia (10:30) cosmetic dentistry you have to be very very very passionate about it and and the key is to leave your ego at the door and try to be the best version of yourself and that means take every course if you're a young dentist or still in dental school take every course that you can take you know look on Instagram and find the people that do the handmade work like myself and you know there's a handful of   that do it and ceramist as well and find the good beautiful work and reach out to everyone like you know everybody can reach out to me you know and ask me like hi how do I do this or how you know how should I go about doing that the thing is you have to be passionate if you're do and what I've told every student of mine in 18 years you're not doing this for the money the money will come you have to do this because you love doing it   Kiera Dent (11:31) I don't disagree. think, on that note, Dr. Pia, what is the best way for people to follow you? Because I love that you said this and I tell people all the time, the world has shifted. We are in 2025. I'm going to choose a plastic surgeon, a cosmetic dentist, a surgeon based on their Instagram. I'm gonna go look at their photos. I'm gonna go look at their work. We don't live in a world where we are isolated just to our own state anymore. Like people fly across the country to go get the best work done. So.   Dr Pia (11:56) yeah, mean Instagram,   I get internationals from Instagram. I've gotten Kazakhstan, I've gotten the UK, I've gotten the French, I've gotten so many and they're all Instagram. And I'm like, okay. I'm just Dr. P, I spelled out the D-O-C-T-O-R. P-I-A, my first name.   Kiera Dent (12:06) How cool is that? So what is your Instagram handle? So people can follow and kind of see what you do.   Dr. Pia,   and I think if you want to see someone, I know you said you're a dinosaur in this, but as we've been chatting, I'm like, this is the doctor that I would fly across the country to go to. This is the one that I would go see. She knows what she's talking about. She's got the finesse, she's got the passion. She's willing to do one veneer. She's the person I'm going to trust to do work on my mouth. And it's how does she get seen? How does she get known? How does she do this? Guys, these are the legends. These are the people. These are people that have just like done what you're wanting to do.   Follow her and also, I don't know if you have heard at the beginning of the podcast, it sounds like Dr. Pia, you're passionate about helping any person who this is their dream become the best in the industry. And that to me is why she...   Dr Pia (12:51) for sure. For sure. Just DM me if you have any questions.   That's the whole like Instagram is the new portal of learning.   Kiera Dent (13:01) Mm-hmm.   Dr Pia (13:04) Just ask questions. mean, it's none of us were born knowing how to do veneers. We all had to learn it at some point. And as long as your ego is at the door and you're willing to learn and be the best version of yourself, then you're great. You're great. But if you think you know it all, I'm still learning. And I've been doing this for decades. I'm still learning. I want to be up to date and things are changing. Materials are changing. There's so many things.   Kiera Dent (13:13) Right.   Dr Pia (13:34) Styles are changing. Thank God the Hollywood smile is dying. Finally. This took about 16 years, but thank God it's dying now. It's going back to natural   Kiera Dent (13:34) Yeah.   No. Right.   which Dr. Pia, people didn't get to hear this. I heard this pre-show. You came on, we were just chatting and you said, I love my career. I love what I do. And to hear that you've been doing it this long and can still say that you love that. That's what my hope and wishes for so many doctors out there is that, and like, yes, we will get you back on the podcast to talk about DSO private practice because I think so many people are like get in, get out real quick. And I think that you are just such a great example of loving your craft, loving what you do.   committing to be the expert and look, you've had this long of a career and you're still obsessed with what you do. And I just want to honor you and say thank you and thank you for inspiring dentists today on the podcast.   Dr Pia (14:24) Well, thanks for having me. And look, the young generation, the new graduates that are out there, I think we need to tell them the do's and don'ts of DSO.   Kiera Dent (14:36) Absolutely. So that's a wrap for today with Dr. Pia. We'll have her back on talking about DSOs and new grads and the, I think the perspectives, because right now it's a world of a lot of noise and to find wisdom through that noise is paramount. So Dr. Pia, thanks for being on. Thanks for sharing your cosmetic knowledge. Yeah, I did too. And for all of you listening, I hope you commit to being the best at your craft, to getting hungry. There's a great quote. I'm a BYU football fan ⁓ and their coach says, be hungry.   Dr Pia (14:51) It was a pleasure, I loved it!   Kiera Dent (15:05) Stay hungry, stay humble. And I think that that's what Dr. Pia has done. And I hope all of you commit to that. And as always, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.  

Kiera provides very specific tips for how a visionary CEO can keep their practice(s) flourishing on multiple levels without sticking their fingers in all the pies. She gets to the quick with a single question a leader should ask anytime a new task comes across their desk: Just because you can do something, does it mean you should? Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I'm excited about today's topic and I hope you are too. Delegation, I feel like it's such a, ⁓ feels so hard. It feels like what should I do? What should I delegate? What should I not delegate? And this is for like helping you get to multi-level success. So whatever your success level is, whatever you want it to be, delegation is a huge portion of leadership. And I feel like,   especially in multi-practices, if you want to get to multi-practices, that's kind how I'm going to highlight this today. You have to ⁓ really get good at delegation. It's not about doing more. It's about doing more of the right things ⁓ and doing less of everything. And so really, really, really getting into that zone of genius, helping you out with that. So I'm excited about this. ⁓ I'll kind of work it through in a couple of different parts to make this easier for you. It's helping you know, what should I delegate? What should I keep?   and how to lead across all the locations with clarity. Because as you scale, a lot of people forget that they have to delegate, that they have to get different pieces. And so what happens is things just start to fall off the wagon. And that can get really, really scary. And then you're trying to like catch it all. And so many people, when they get into multi-practice ownership, they tell me like, I wish I would have just stayed at one. And I think, well, yes, there are benefits to staying at one. You had a call inside, you're so wanting to grow. It's just hard right now because we didn't set it up as   successful as we could have. Now, I am not one to judge. I did the exact same thing. And so I know the the taffy pole stretch of trying to do every single piece when you're a multi-practice ownership. And so this is coming from real life tactical, curious life experience of what we see with clients to give you the tips of the trade, to give you the secrets to success and doing it here on the podcast in such an open, friendly, welcoming, no judgment zone. More to just give you a hug to tell you, hey, you're doing better than you think you are. And let's give you some tactical practical tips to help you out.   So, A Team, we're obsessed with single practices, so multi-practices. We love to help owners build thriving practices at all levels. We love to work with practices anywhere from the startup zone all the way to the multi-location zone. Whether your plan is to build it into a legacy practice or to sell to a DSO or to whatever it is, there is no right answer with Dental A Team. It is your right answer. It is what is best for you, your life, your practice, and also allowing you the freedom to change that. So.   working with doctors and their teams to get to that high level success. ⁓ We are ultimately here to help you have the most profitable practice, the happiest team, the thriving practice of your dreams, and to do it on the easiest way possible. So that's what we're about. This is for ⁓ true, true, helping doctors become true CEOs, not ⁓ operators of their businesses to own their businesses to act in that seat rather than being the managers that oftentimes they are. So step one, when you're moving into this multi-practice ownership,   you are shifting and I want you just to know your identity is going to be stripped away. You're going to become the same thing that you feel very uncomfortable in because you've never done this, but this is what your organization needs and I think so often owners fail to rise to the need of the organization of what it needs and they like to stay where it's comfortable. And I remember as an office manager, I like when I truly stepped into the office manager role, I'm like,   Well, this is weird. I don't even know what I'm supposed to do. And you've got to just settle in and you'll figure it out very quickly. so helping you just know as the owner CEO of the company, what you have to own, like your true role is to own the vision strategy and culture. These are things that do not get delegated out. They're the core of the leadership. They're you setting the example. And when I realized, like, I remember one day I Googled like, what does a CEO do? Like I truly did not know.   ⁓ because I'd been a manager for most of my life. I'd been a doer most of it. I did not realize that my job was to own the vision, the strategy, and the culture. Now, not all CEOs, not owners of businesses actually enjoy the vision. You might not be a visionary and that's okay. You might just need to have somebody paired with you who's a really strong visionary. There's usually a visionary integrator according to Traction by Gina Wickman that I choose to, I subscribe to the strongest. So I'd be like a CEO and a COO. ⁓   The CEO is the visionary, the CEO always operations the day to day making the dreams happen. So it's like Walt and Roy Disney ⁓ are some good examples of that too. So when I'm looking at as a portion that you cannot delegate away, you've really got to own this vision strategy culture. That's you, you're the culture master, you're the strategy, you're the vision. So where are we headed? What does that look like?   ⁓ What's our 12 month? What's our three year? What's our 10 year target? That can still be, you set the like framework, the team builds it into a full complete picture. And then what's the culture that we want replicated across all the teams. So ⁓ when we start to get that vision strategy and culture aligned and ⁓ owners don't delegate that, you then can bring in hires faster. You can have core values. You can have KPIs like, because we know it's very clear. How do we act?   What are we going towards? And then what are the things that we need to measure? So this is truly something that when I realized like that was my job and it was the bigger picture piece, there's other people that do the day to day. It felt awkward. I'm not gonna lie. Like I was like, ⁓ I feel like I'm putting on a different t-shirt today. And like, I don't even feel comfortable. Like I don't look good in yellow. Well, you might not look good in it, but this is what the organization needs and nobody else is doing this besides you. So ⁓ the question is, if you're a multi-practice ownership and you're in this ownership role, question one is,   have I clearly communicated our vision? It's like, if Kiera or the Dental A team were to walk into my practice today and ask any team member, would they know the vision of our company? That should be a resounding yes. And if not, you have not communicated it enough and it has not been clear enough. Does your entire company know the core values and do they live them? And does every single practice know what their targets are for that practice and the KPIs they're tracking?   It's very simple way to ask yourself this. And I love to ask this and I love to come to offices. If you were to ask any member of our team member, they would be able to tell you, yes, we know exactly what our core values are. We know what the mission is of our company. We also know where we're headed. Now, I think I could be a bit more clear of where I'm headed in the three and tenure. My leadership team knows that a lot better. My core team knows where we're headed this year, what our core values are, and what the core values are of a company. We have this on a...   So some of them could rattle it off, our new team members, this is part of their onboarding. So helping you really figure that out is going to be paramount because now all your practices, all the locations are operating the same way and there's strong clarity. Step two is you're going to delegate operations for leaders. So this is kind of like the CEO versus the COO. So like realistically owners of like CEOs of DSOs and multi-practice ownership, you don't have to be a DSO for this. It can be multi, it can be private still.   I have a lot of private practices that are three, five, 10 locations. That's totally fine. You can do that, but you can't scale if you're still solving the supply issues and front desk drama and putting them. So you have to have a regional manager and a lead at each location. That's paramount. You need to have it. They need to have their KPIs and what they're tracking. They also need to know how to make decisions. Like what's the decision framework and how, what do I have decision making autonomy over at the office manager or regional monitor level versus what needs to get approval?   And then also we've got to have like training, not just tasks. So that way everybody has training of what do we need to do when we have that set up consistently. So you teach your team and you have a set protocol and process of how to run huddles. Like a system to me is something that no matter who you are, where you come from, whether you've been with us for one day or 10 years, you should be able to do the same thing and get the same results. So a huddle should have a form that everybody follows. You can have it broken down for me. I even have minutes next to it. Like this part's two minutes, part's five minutes. So it's a true 15 minute huddle.   for every single practice. Our one-on-ones have a set protocol of how do we do them, when are they run, and how often are they done, where are these things stored? We have a process of how we set up our rooms. We have a process of how we schedule. All these things that you start working on, and doctors who are owners and visionaries might not be good at these processes. So you need a really good regional or really good office manager or really good operations next to you to help build all these things so you do have confident leaders that are leading next to you. But this is everything that gets delegated out.   And there's a doctor that I worked with who's actually really, really great at checklists and operations and building. And I said, that's fine. Rock on. You got to pick which seat you want to be in. Do want to be in the CEO visionary seat or do you to be in the operations seat? Both are fine. Both are on the table. Both are doable. And you could honestly do both super, super, super well. You just have to decide which one you want to do. And this doctor, two years later sent me a message and they said, Kiera, I'm so glad you pushed me into that because as much as I was trying to do both, wasn't excelling in either.   So they moved into the CEO visionary role. They hired an amazing assistant to them. They hired an amazing regional manager and the practices are flourishing on multi-levels and they have seven locations now in their organization. But this way, there's not the bottlenecks. The CEO, the owner often creates these bottlenecks because they're not delegating those pieces. And then next up is going to be like, how do we actually systematize across the board all the locations? And... ⁓   So this is again, like we've talked about it so many times, it's KPIs, having a dashboard and a scoreboard so you know how every practice is doing, having leadership meetings with agendas and having communication that's very open amongst all practices. And then I do like a centralized training at least once a quarter, if not like once or twice a year. So that way all the teams and all the organization, I know this is a pain for people, but the more you get them all together, the more they realize that they're all on the same team, they're all there.   But like, this is not you owner, you're delegating these pieces. So you're delegating the reporting and the communication. So if you look at this really, you're not delegating the culture, you're not delegating the vision, and you're not delegating ⁓ the other piece to that is like the strategy of how we're going to get there. That's your world, that's what you're supposed to be doing. And then your job is to really rise up your leaders. But you are delegating operations, you are delegating systems, you are delegating meetings.   Like there's so much to your job that you've been used to doing that you're delegating. And me going from an office manager to a business owner, sometimes it's easy for me to get stuck in management because that's where I feel comfortable. That's where I feel good. ⁓ Vision and strategy, that's actually really hard to put on a scorecard and to account for my time to say like, yep, I put in 40 hours. Well, vision and strategy are not tasks. are, it's like fluffy clouds.   and they take quiet, they take ⁓ out of the office, they take ⁓ white noise time is what I like to call it. And it's actually very hard. And I think sometimes this is why CEOs don't like to go into this because it feels fluffy. feels, ⁓ I don't know, like so hard to track, if you will, which it is. But at the same time, if you do that job and you do it well, everything else falls into place and then you just check in on all the other pieces.   that are truly delegated. really, it feels so, sometimes I feel like it's unfair. I'm like, what? Like this is all I'm doing and this is everything else that they're doing? Tasks and vision do not get put in same buckets. They're not on a scale of equilibrium. It's not like, well, I spent three hours on vision so I should spend three hours on tasks. No, sometimes vision takes longer. Sometimes it's harder to build. Sometimes strategy's harder to build. The number of nights and times where I'm like working it through in my brain and I'm building it on paper and I'm working through like,   What does the company need and what is the culture and how am I going to show up and present and like, what are the meetings I'm going to put it in place? Just because that comes natural for visionaries does not mean that it should be shortchanged for operation that's task built and task focused. But all of this is literally delegated. So all you do is you own the vision and you delegate the operations and you delegate the systemization. Now you oversee it, you are a part of it, you can help create it. So that way it's there.   But this is how you have to start to operate in multi locations. A lot of times you are also over the hiring of new doctors ⁓ and then like the partnership portions within the company. If that's a piece of it, that's really what the owner CEO visionary C is responsible for. Yes, you might still do some clinical dentistry, but typically the more practices you build in, the more you're going to need to be overseeing the entire organization and doing less and less and less dentistry because it's something you can delegate out. No one else can do the vision, the strategy and the culture. They can't.   everything else can be delegated. And I know this feels weird. It feels awkward. And it's not always right away, but it will start to be something you phase out and phase out and phase out. And it actually becomes really fun and it becomes hard and it's a challenge, but that's what it is. Scaling is not doing all of it. It's about doing the right things as a leader. And this is something where so often we have a phrase in our company where we say, just because you can do it, does that mean you should do it?   So leaders, really want to ask the question, just because you can do it, and this is for regional managers, this is for office managers, this is for all leaders, just because you can do it, does that mean you are the best that should do it? We have some team members on our team that love to help out, and I am so grateful for that. Also though, creates that murky and muddy to where I actually don't know who I need to hire, because I've got five people doing something when two people should be able to do it, but I don't know, are they overworked or underworked, because we're all quote unquote helping. So having that.   clarity around is really going to help you. So this is a zone where when you're trying to scale multiple practices and you've got that taffy pole, it's the cue that you've got to step into the CEO level leadership and your practice might not need you fully a CEO yet. The business might not need you solely there yet. And so you've got to work on it in phases. And I think the phases are the hard part because you are taffy pulled. So you start to set up days and you start to set up blocks where this is my deep work time for CEO time. And then this is my clinical time. Then this is my...   CEO time, and then this is my culture time. This is my strategy time. And I hate the word strategy, it's the swear word in our company, but you do have to build strategy. You do have to talk to other people. have to work on those big relationships. Like that's part of what you do and not undermining it and getting you fully into the right person in the right seat for your organization is going to be paramount for you. And it does take a lot of time. And if you're someone like me, I talk to think, I don't think to talk.   So you might need somebody on the other side that works it through with you, whether that's a coach, whether that's a mentor, whether that's your manager, but being able to work through it so that way you're truly in that CEO seat. And so for this, this is strategic leadership. This is next level leadership. This isn't what you've been doing day in, day out, and it's for the next level. And so as you might even be a solo practitioner listening to the podcast today, helping you see what do I need to become and how do I evolve into this? Who do I need on the team? What players do I need to have with me?   are all going to be paramount for you to get to this great success that you have. So for this, if you're scaling, you're stuck, you feel like you're doing it all, reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. This is what we do. Our job is to make it to be simple, to be easier for you, to be more fun for you, and all around to create the freedom and the growth that you need to be successful. You have to have the space to do this. That's paramount for you to be able to do it. And we're here to help you along the way. And as always, don't do this alone. You don't have to. And just because you're learning a new role,   just like a lot of office managers are learning a new role. There's nothing wrong with that. We're here to help you. We're here to support you. You're not expected to know at all. So stop pretending like you need to and start to grow into the zones that you are truly great at. And as always, let us know how we can help you reach out. Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com book a call. Let's talk about it. Let's find your gaps. Let's give you some resources, no judgment, just massive momentum, massive clarity. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on The Dental A Team podcast.  

Happy Thanksgiving! Kiera gives ideas of service opportunities, from a personal to a practice-wide scale.  Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and happy, happy Thanksgiving. I am so honored to share today with you. You guys, I love Thanksgiving. It used to not be one of my favorite holidays, but gosh, you know, the secret to living is giving and to have a day dedicated to gratitude, a day dedicated to love, a day dedicated to families and friends and to just come together and to remember how good our lives truly are.   I think is beyond special. And I just want to say, for me, it would feel crazy for me not to jump on here and to say thank you to all of you. You guys are my favorite humans. You're the people that I love, that I get to talk to so many times a week, that I get to hang out with, that I get to see your stories, that I get to know personally and professionally, that I get to see your wins. I get to see you tag us on social media. I get to see the emails that come in. I get to see your reviews that you leave. I get to see you positively impacting the world of dentistry. And just to truly know,   that you guys are doing so good out there. And I just want to say thank you. Thank you for being here. You guys, this podcast was a hope, a wish, a dream when I was hiking up, I'm not joking, Half Dome in Yosemite. And I thought there is nothing out there that's serving dentists and teens. And it's a niche and it's a space. And I'm going to come in and I'm going to positively impact. And I'm going to get both sides of the coin to come together to really, truly influence and impact dentistry in the greatest way possible. And that is such a huge testament to all of you for being here.   for being a part of the Dental A Team family. So I just wanna say thank you for being here. And to this, I just wanna say like, if you've been an OG, thank you for being here from the beginning. And if you're a newbie, welcome. I hope that you feel loved. I hope you feel appreciated. I hope you just feel great. And I hope you remember how amazing life truly is. So I want you guys to just know that watching this podcast evolve, to seeing millions of downloads, to seeing us in so many countries, my like...   It's mind boggling to me. It's crazy because when I built this, didn't know how many people would listen and to see the fans, to see the love, to see the raving fans, to see the clients come through, to laugh with you, to celebrate with you, to cry with you. I just want to say like, gosh, like this is a journey. It's a joy and it's an honor and it's a privilege because I know your time is your greatest asset. And so I just want to say thank you. And today with it being Thanksgiving, you know, I really just want you to know   that I believe that the secret to living is giving. And we have a portion of our company called Live To Give. And I've talked about it on a few other podcasts. I've talked about how like, you know, it was back in 2019, I went to a Tony Robbins event. And a lot of you know how much I love Tony Robbins. That was because I caught one of my lightning moments in life where I was in a space so focused on myself and it was random because I was building a company called Live To Give.   and that was where we were non-believable and we were like getting donations to help these nuns who didn't even have a house. Like it was crazy and we raised so much money so quickly and I've done it a few other times. Like another one idea was the Vibe prison ventures where inmates were actually like I went I actually went to the prison and it was crazy and I was scared out of my mind ⁓ but I saw these inmates take their skills that got them into prison which were not the best.   and turn them into good and they pitched us their business ideas and to be able to sit there with them. That was another business that I got that was part of the Live To Give to be a part of that and to give back. And I found that so many of the times in my life that are my happiest moments are those where we like went above and beyond. And a few years ago, I talked about like probably my favorite Live To Give moment that we've ever had was when we were able to, one of my friends in Arizona, her son was struggling with stomach cancer and   I really wanted to do a make a wish and make a wish is like really, really hard to get in touch with. And I had committed that year. I was going to do a make a wish. I didn't know what it was going to look like. I didn't know how we were going to do it. I told my team, this is what we wanted to do. And we found this boy and his goal, his dream was to go to Italy. And I was like, this is it. Like guys, this is it. We have a team member who's a stomach cancer ⁓ survivor as well. And I was like, this is it. This is our live to give. And our whole team was able to participate in it. We're able to give this, this   child who's 12 years old, him and his family, a complete all expense paid trip to Italy when he got done with cancer and to give him the hope and the wish. And you guys like that moment in my life, I think about the ones that really impact us the most, the ones that changes, the ones that are like those lightning bolt moments. And I, the bulk of them are ones that we've been able to give to serve, to love. ⁓ We were able to last year as a team go and like help so many kids at the children's hospital.   our team has done angel tree where we go and like shop for these families. And Shelbi and I, I remember we went shopping for a family of nine and that was the exact of my family. I think back to when I was at, ⁓ United Way and I was able to bring holiday magic to hundreds of families from the donations of others. And I remember there was a time where I just was feeling grumpy about life. I realized like, I haven't checked my, giving like vitals.   in me in a while. I think about businesses and I think about all of you and we are constantly looking at our KPIs of our business. We're looking at the KPIs that drive us to success, but I'm like, what are the KPIs of our life that drive us to success? And maybe those are some of the pieces that are there. And I've just realized that giving and serving and loving should be an area that maybe we want to check those vitals, especially today.   of where is my giving my love, my service, KPI? Is it high? Is it low? Is it on track? Is it off track? And I will say that if it's off track, today's a great day to get it on track. And maybe a couple of ways for us to give back is just to love a little bit more, to text someone today that you might love. A few years ago, my brother-in-law and I have a kind of a unique relationship. When I met...   He was a business owner and I always thought he was so grumpy. I didn't really like him that much. was like, Jason, your brother is so just rude. I did not care for him. And as I become a business owner further into my career, I understand this brother-in-law so much. And he's kind of like, I don't know, I would say like a little crusty on the edges. He's not soft, I'll put it that way. And I was actually really, really scared to text him.   But just cared about him so much and I appreciated so much of what he's done and he's been a mentor to me. And I just said, take a risk, a gamble. I remember I was sitting on the beach in Maui and I texted him and I just said, hey, I just want you to know how much I appreciate you. I value you. And how much of a mentor you've been to me and you've given me hope when I didn't know that there was hope. And I'm just so grateful for you. And he wrote back, he's like, Kiera, I don't usually cry. And that text meant so much to me. And I just think that's our giving.   KPI. So what little love bombs could you send out? What service could you and your team do together? Our team, every year in December, we do a Live to Give. Could you guys adopt that in your company and together collectively as a podcast family? Think of all the lives that we could give back to. I think about my husband was talking about another brother that he has and this brother literally is in such a hard place in his life right now and   does not have a lot of money, has a lot of family dynamics, I won't get into it. And when I say like, pretty much homeless, that's literally what's going on with him. And I only highlight that because his situation is so hard. we were, Jason was talking about struggling with something and he was like, ⁓ I could help you with that. And Jason and I talked about it and we thought about who are the people that give to those that are struggling? A of times it's those that are like, not hardly better off than they are. And I think like,   Could today or this next month, could we maybe boost that live to give side of us where we look for people in need, we look for opportunities that can be in our patient base, that can be in our team base, it can be in our community, it can be in our families. Can I give out little love bombs? It might be cold in your area. A few years ago, we did a coat drive and this came from one of my friends in Utah who...   would ask all his friends to donate coats that they're no longer wearing and would drive around and hand out coats to people on the side of the road that could really use it. I'm not here to say you've got to go do that, but I just think like, what a blessing to those people. What a space for us to be able to share and to love and to give back. Like you guys, are so insanely blessed. I promise every single person listening to this podcast today, we all collectively could say that we have been unruly blessed.   in our lives. And so where is that? Could I text a team member and tell them like, Hey, you're doing such a great job. I'm not joking. I have a little list over here to write thank you cards to my team members sporadically and unexpectedly for great things that they do. Could I text my spouse if it's been a while and tell them how much I love them? Could I maybe call my parents? I think about like, if you have your parents alive right now, I hope that you just love them.   I hope that you call them, I hope that you tell them, I hope you forgive them. Even offering forgiveness to somebody that maybe doesn't deserve it, it's not a gift to them, it's a gift to you. ⁓ Patching up and cleaning up when it maybe doesn't seem like it's necessary. ⁓ All these are little gifts of gratitude, of giving, of serving, of loving people. And what's crazy is the more you give that, the more you feel alive, the more your bucket's filled like,   Every year we go and do something and I leave those events just on like cloud nine. We have a team member who last year she was so inspired by it. She like found a girl in Africa and basically like adopted her and has been like helping her get through college and like she sends her letters and her dad did it and they were just so inspired that they've like changed these lives of people. And like, but that team member changed as well. And so I just think today,   Let's look at our KPI of our giving metric and how can we add maybe a little bit more service and give back? Because I promise you guys, the secret to living is giving. That's why I have Dental A Team's Live to Give. And if you know somebody that could benefit from Dental A Teams Live to Give, it's completely like on us. It's not even that I might make it the 1031 or excuse me, our nonprofit in the future. Like that just is a great idea on the podcast that came to me.   because I want to build a nonprofit. But if you know a family that's deserving, you know of somebody that could have a make a wish experience, you know someone in your community, I would love to partner up with you. I'd love to help make magic happen. I'd love to use the podcast. I'd love to connect with a lot of you. But like, there are so many people, including ourselves, including our team, that a little more love, a little more kindness, a little more gratitude could go a long ways.   And I just want to encourage you today as you're in this space for you to think of how can you do just a little bit more? How can you make a little bit more impact and change in people's lives? How can you just truly like not be as lonely as an owner and to give heartfelt thanks and gratitude to any person around you.   And I was like, team members to your doctors, to your owners, it is lonely at the top. It is hard. And to give a genuine heartfelt thank you of gratitude, could truly go so far. And so I think just go out of your way, text your team members, tell them how much you love them, tell them how much you appreciate them, how much you value them. Team members, tell your doctor, tell your family. Like these things don't have to be monetary. It's us just loving of being kind and to give.   to just give back a little bit more. And then I'd also encourage you to also give a little gratitude to yourself for the things that you've overcome, for the things that you've been able to do, for the challenges, for the person you've been able to become. Think back to who you were when you started your business, to who you are today and give grace and gratitude. Because the reality is like, I think about this, like if you were...   to look back and to be able to talk to your younger self, what would you say to that person? You'd probably be like so freaking proud of that person. Like you're gonna do it. I'm so proud of you and I'm so grateful for you. And then I think like, let's go even further. What if you only had one week left to live? What would you be doing right now with your life? I promise you, you'd be living on your highest cloud nine. You'd be telling everybody thank you. You'd be telling everybody you love them. You'd be giving hugs.   ⁓ one of my friends from high school just posted recently that his mom passed away unexpectedly. And he wrote, he said, hug your parents, hug your family, tell them that you love them, love your cousins, love your aunts, all of your uncles, like tidy up because your life can change so quickly. And what I hope for all of you is that your life does not change so quickly, but it does change so quickly, not in a negative way of losing somebody and wishing we could love on them more.   but that your life could change so quickly that you start to live your day every single day of having gratitude and love and telling your family and calling them and sharing with your team and not holding back. It's like, I'm hoping that you just feel this like confetti explosion of love being able to be finally released and unshackled from you to give it to yourself, to give it to your team, to give it to your family, to give it to those around you. I hope you know that I love you.   and that I care about you. And I think that you're doing way better than you ever imagined you could be. That I'm so proud that you're living the dreams that you once thought were impossible and you made them into the possible. That you push yourself, that you evolve, that you want to be this good human, that you're positively impacting your community and your team. You're doing so much good. And I just hope that you feel the love. I hope that you feel strengthened and I hope that you just know that I adore you. And with that, I would also be   completely ridiculous because I cannot let today pass without doing one of my favorite traditions. And that is publicly thanking my entire team, the team that stands behind Dental A Team that makes Dental A Team incredible. And this year our team has drastically and radically grown. And I'm so proud of the company that we've built. I'm proud of the team that we built. I'm proud of the deliveries that we're able to give, the consulting, the changing of lives.   Um, one of our consultants said at best, said, I love what we get to do because every single day we get to change someone's life. And that's the magic of Dental A Team That's the people we have. So I'll go kind of an order of where it's at. Um, and I'll just kind of go by like people, uh, I'll put them in like no exact order because that feels really weird to me. And so just going to like, go through the list of all of our team. So kicking it off is the one and only Spiffy Tiffy. I am so grateful for Tiff.   You guys, she jumped into this company from day one, pretty much. I asked her to put an ice cream cone on her head and that girl has never looked back. Not an ice cream cone with ice cream in it, but just the cone. We get asked that question a lot. And Tiff is just my ride or die. She's someone that I adore. She's someone who pushes me. She's a safe space for me to ⁓ be messy, to be vulnerable. She pushes me to be my best self. She encourages me.   She'll co-present with me. If you guys, mastermind this year with Tiff was pure and utter euphoria. And if you were not a part of it, I hope you choose to come and join us because this was something that Tiff pushed me on. was part of Tiff's vision. We talked about it multiple years sitting in a hotel room. We were on a trip and she said, you know, Kiera, I really have this idea of doing these events. And here they are. Tiff has been my ride or die. And she's someone that has really this year grown in her leadership and is running this incredible consulting team.   And I'm just so thankful for Tiff being someone that I love and adore. Someone who makes me laugh so hard. Someone who I've watched just really show up for herself and to challenge herself to grow, to not put blame, to look at herself as a leader and to rise and to go to the next level and to drive a consulting team far better than I ever could have imagined. And you guys, if you know her, you love her, Spiffy Tiffy, she's on the podcast.   She does the podcast, she writes newsletters, she does consulting, she drives her consulting team and she makes all of us laugh and she's literally the walking like Dental A Team mascot for our company. And I just hope that Tiff knows publicly and privately how grateful I am that she took a chance, that she's been my ride or die, that she's something that I just freaking love and adore so much and I'm so grateful for Spiffy Tiffy. Coming up next, No BS Britt. You guys, if you've heard her, you love her. ⁓ Brittany Stone is just this magical human who   is a yin to my yang. I have so much respect for Britt and the way that she leads. Britt is like our HR guru. She's the one who creates policies. She helps hire. ⁓ Britt is someone that I see. She hates this nickname. So don't call her it. Gritty Britty. And the reason I like Britt has so much grit. She is someone that will just keep showing up day in day out. She's very stable for me. She's very consistent.   When you think about a boat rocking in the ocean and they have stabilizers, that's Britt for our company. She is just this amazing stabilizer who I am so grateful for. And not only that, she consults incredibly well. Teams love her. Our team loves her. She gets the MVP word often. And Britt is someone that I am grateful who has pushed me as a leader, who's pushed our team, who stabilized, but also has shown me like how strong somebody with humility is.   And also someone who has a quieter personality can be an incredibly, incredibly talented leader. I'm just so grateful for her. I'm also grateful for you guys know her, you love her. Shelbi Poppins, Shelbi has been my personal and executive assistant for several years. She's customer success. Literally this girl is like the grease between all the wheels. You guys probably all know her. She helps with the podcast. She helps with the company. She puts on events.   Shelbi Poppins is practically perfect in every single way. And our whole team would agree to that. So I'm not showing favoritism. She just genuinely is someone that we all love. And I am so thankful for Shelbi being my right hand. I know Shelbi would take a bullet for me. And you guys, if you don't have someone like that, gosh, it's an honor to have someone that just like, you know, will jump in front of a train to make sure you're taken care of. Wow. Greatest gift you can give. And those of you that are the personal assistants, the executive assistants behind the scenes, just know that you're, ⁓   The person that you're helping values you more than I think words could ever put into play. Shelbi just is magic. She is ease. She knows how to have everything done. And I'm so thankful for this girl taking a risk, you guys. We shared a wall, like she's my next door neighbor and I knocked on her door, offered her a job, had her send the job, convinced her to come back. Like Shelbi is someone that I am so thankful and I will say great talent is often sitting next door to you.   So don't be afraid to like knock on the door and like mad kudos and appreciation to Shelbi for just showing up constantly every single day. Shelbi is in my opinion, our definition of passion for excellence and results focused. That girl does not miss a beat and she's constantly showing up. She's constantly figuring things out. She makes sure that the boats run on time, that everything is done perfect and that the experience for all of you is absolutely magic. And I just, our company truly is so blessed to have Shelbi Poppins on our team.   Coming up next is a new player on our team, Jenna. Jenna is our COO, and I will say she has been one of the greatest additions to our company. And I think kudos to our leadership team who saw the need for us to bring on this COO to take us to the next level, to drive us in ways that we didn't know. And I will say that Jenna has come in with this like ray of sunshine when I think a lot of us were covered in clouds. And Jenna has this amazing ability to cut through the noise to see what really needs to happen.   She's a freaking wizard with numbers. You guys, I love numbers and Jenna loves numbers too. Like she is just magical. And I will say for owner doctors out there that are struggling needing that implementer integrator, Jenna has taught me that the right person seated next to you really can drive a company and you it's okay. You can hire a fractional. You can hire somebody that you don't know. ⁓ But bringing someone in with insane experience who has passion and love, Jenna is one of the most driven. ⁓   giving people you guys like I hope there's an opportunity for a lot more of you to get to know Jenna because her stories and her passion inspire me to want to be a better person professionally and personally she's one of the most giving like the story she has of the impact and the companies this woman is a miracle girl for companies and she does it because she believes in their passion their cause and I will say her clarity her accountability her continuity her   ways that she is constantly doing the right thing day in and day out and just showing up for our team, showing up for me, but driving us. Like when I talk about someone who holds a team accountable, that is Jenna. And I have seen her just rise and drive our company in ways that I never imagined. And I am beyond grateful until like I got the freaking jackpot bringing Jenna to our company. And I know our whole team feels that way. She's been an amazing addition and someone we could not live without. So, so grateful for Jenna. Next up, you guys know, ⁓   Our consulting team, Dana. Dana has been with us so long. Dainey, ⁓ her and I, Dana is just someone who is, if you haven't gotten the opportunity to work with Dana, you're missing out. Dana is grit, tenacity, and that girl, there is no challenge, no problem bigger than her. Like she will, she just takes it. She's like a beast when it comes to life problems that are thrown at her. And she does it with fun and grit and grace. And Dana is someone that I can count on to be consistent.   to be thorough, to show up day in and day out. That girl does not miss for me. And I'm so grateful for her. And I have also watched Dana have insane passion for excellence and drive to become the next version of herself. Like before my eyes, have watched Dana be, Dana, when I hired her to Dana, like 4.0, this girl has just grown through the ranks and she takes it on and she takes every challenge and she takes the feedback and she...   just grows and to see the results she drives for her clients. You guys, this woman blows me away constantly, but she does it in a way of ease, Grace. She's got all the kids, she's got the soccer practice or the baseball practice. Like she's always busy and yet she's able to maintain and serve clients galore. Help Our Team Makes Me Laugh All The Time has the funniest stories. And I'm just so grateful for Daney taking a chance on Dental A Team for being an incredible hygienist who brings value, who speaks for us, who presents for us.   Dana is just like Dynamite Dana. That might have to be her new nickname because she's so, and maybe it's not Dynamite, but Dynamic Dana. Like she is truly someone that I am honestly in awe and impressed by her so much and so grateful to learn from her, to watch her, to grow with her because Dana is someone who is so special and someone I'm so thankful for in my life and in our company. Our company is beyond lucky and blessed to have Dana. ⁓   and she just shows up constantly. She's taught me more about life and gratitude for life than I think any other person I've ever met in my entire life. And I'm just grateful for that. We also have Kristy. is such a, her name is Kristy Treasure and she is a treasure on our team. Kristy came onto our team as this dynamic consultant who just, I call her like our truffle hunting. Like she looks for profitability in every practice she goes to and she drives offices to success.   She rivals me on my numbers, which is so fun. And what I love about Kristy is she has this calm, tenacious personality that just goes after it, figures it out. And I know that I can count on Kristy to deliver insane results every single time. And she never, ever, ever misses. This is a woman who has so much knowledge of dentistry, but she has so much passion for your success. She is obsessed with driving offices to their ultimate dreams, their ultimate goals.   She just has like mad following of people that love her, adore her, honor her, and I'm one of them. Kristy is such a beautiful blessing. We were looking for our next consultant. We were wanting somebody and Kristy just, I feel like popped out of the air like Glenda in her little bubble and showed up in the most perfect way, in the most perfect space. She is someone who sees people. She's someone who loves people and she's someone who's got a heart of gold. And I just truly am so lucky and so blessed to have Kristy on our team.   Dental A Team would not be the same without her. And following Kristy is Trish. Trish is such a, my gosh, we call her Tada, which stands for Trish Ackerman, Dental A Team ambassador. Like Trish is such, I mean, she's rivaling Tiffany on how much she loves Dental A team. And Trish just comes in with this, like she is a walking magnetic dynamic human.   You can like, she is so fun and she's so hilarious and teams love her. And she comes in this way where she gets you to like navigate to your goals and results, but you were laughing and joking and having the most hilarious time. Trish knows everybody. Everybody who knows Trish loves Trish. And Trish is just this beautiful, incredible woman who does consulting in such a fun, positive and impactful way. I learned so much from her. Trish has the best one-liners that we all snag from her. She's constantly making us laugh.   But what I love about Trish is her positivity in her outlook where every day is a golden ray of sunshine for Trish. She shows up every day with positivity. She shows up of how every day is the best day. She's the one who said like, are so blessed to consult because we get to change lives, we get to create magic and we get to truly inspire and bless people. And honestly, I don't know what I did for all these years without Trish in my life because Trish is just magic. Trish is fire and spice and fun and beauty and just...   Reminds me that life is so freaking fun and I need to laugh and have so much more fun and I'm so grateful for her I'm grateful for her knowledge. This girl has gosh Like coached teams of 150 people and so I learned from her and I'm inspired by her and you guys Offices who are working with any of our consultants are just beyond blessed Following Trish's Monica Monica is so special. She just has this whimsical fairy ease about her   that just is so poised, collected, brilliant, that is so magical for me to watch her consult, to have me watch her like with her email recaps. I see beautiful emails come from this woman. Like this woman can write. ask her, like Britt is so brilliant. We ask her all the time like, hey Monica, we need help writing this. And Monica comes with it. Like a lot of the things about our company have been written by Monica. She just got this like ease and grace and loves her.   creativity space and I'm just so grateful to have that ⁓ I think flow example in our company of someone who just can navigate the storms of life, who can go with the flow, who has poise and polish and professionalism and just like truly makes people sparkle in jazz. She's a very fun dynamic human that I'm so grateful is on our team. I'm so happy she's joined our team. And like I said, our consulting team is top notch. I do not hire.   anybody on our team unless they come with massive experience, massive years of experience, coming with consulting experience. Like these women truly know how to drive practices to their greatest fulfillment and profitability and do it in ease and fun. And we were just so lucky. Like our consulting team is absolutely incredible. So moving on from our consulting team, ⁓ we have just this amazing marketing team and Eve, she's like my little pixel fairy over there. We call her her pixel best.   If you have ever attended an event, if you have ever gotten anything from Dental A Team a newsletter, a flyer, anything, it is Eve's magic. And Eve just makes my life so easy. She told me, she Kara marketers are so easy to find. And I said, actually they're not because to find a marketer, Eve is not just a marketer. She's freaking funny. Like honestly, this girl makes me laugh so hard. She is so brilliant. She's stunning. She makes gorgeous design for me all the time. And she's just as magical human that I   I don't know what my life was like without Eve. Eve is someone that has just elevated our company. She's constantly here for brilliant designs. But something that I have loved that I've watched Eve just explore this year is this like new found, like vibrancy blossoming coming out of her where she is taking ownership. She's watching these metrics. She's seeing different things. And Eve can pretty much consult people now. Like this girl does not just build me a slide deck.   a typical marketer would. She thinks through how to make the experience for all of you the absolute best it can be, how to make the experience the best for me. And then she's the funniest person in our chats. So if you ever get a chance to meet Eve, you heard her on the podcast, Eve is this dynamic human that all of us, and she's freaking funny. Eve is like the comedy central of our company who makes all of us giggle. Her and Trish, we just, mean, Tiff is in that rally with them, but Eve is someone who is just.   beyond magical and someone that I'm so grateful came into our life personally and professionally. Her stories, her example, her like zuberance for life just inspires me. And I'm so grateful for her and grateful for her on our team. Following her is Jacintha. Jacintha has been with us and she's just really helped grow our team and evolve our team. And she helps make sure the podcast is taken care of and trains people and does social media. And she's really great at just making sure a lot of the pieces get done in our company.   ⁓ Her just joyous laughter and vivaciousness of life is so infectious and I'm so grateful to learn from her. She's one of the people that has just taken live to give and giving a next level that I think is just beyond magical and something that I've learned so much from her. She just lives life at a high level and she enjoys life and she lives life fully and that's something I'm so thankful for her for. Following her.   ⁓ Joash Joash is new to our team. And I think all of us would be lost without Joash. Joash is behind the scenes, but if you guys are in our company and you're part of our analytics or different platforms, Joash is your guy. Joash makes so many things. He's like our second Shelbi in the company. He builds spreadsheets. He's a data analyst. He figures out different things. He builds beautiful pieces for us. He just is constantly looking for ways to serve.   But Joash reminds me of the beauty of life. Joash is just such a special human He really is taking things to the absolute next level and I'm so grateful for him I love seeing his little messages come in He is someone who reminds me to be so grateful every single day for living this life every day in his slack messages He's like, thank you team. It was a beautiful day. Have a wonderful day tomorrow. We're so lucky to be alive build the best quotes for our company Joash ish is just this like   dynamic, special human that I feel we are so blessed to have helping fill in so many different gaps in our company. And we're so grateful for Joash. ⁓ Robi Robi's on our team and he's in the marketing department. And I love that Robi is just here to help to support, help our marketing team just flourish and thrive. And I love that he thinks of different ideas. He's a great designer. He's a great creator. And I'm so grateful to have Robi take on tasks, fill in the gaps wherever we need him to be. And he's just fun. He's got a lot of   He's got a lot of just energy and drive and like reminds me of how good life is. And I'm so thankful that Robi also is on our team. Following Robi is Paul. Paul is our new CRO. Again, I title, didn't even know existed nor did I know I needed. And what I love about Paul is Paul has been able to come into our company similar to Jenna and just brings this element of poise, of guidance, of knowledge.   I love meeting really smart people and Paul is so smart. He sometimes intimidates me in the best way possible. I love someone who can rival me, someone who can challenge me, somebody who inspires me. And I'm so excited for Paul to come in with so many years of knowledge and so much experience and to see our marketing and our customer success department and bring them together to just make it better for our entire team and for all of you coming to our company. And I'm just so grateful for Paul for taking a chance on us. I think...   I think when I look at consulting, often think like, gosh, those clients, like I feel so bad. I want to take care of them. I just want to help them out. And I think Paul felt that way about Dental A Team. Like, okay, Dental A Team needs some help and I can see how I can really drive. And I'm just so grateful for him coming in, jumping in the passion for excellence that he has, the drive, the tenacity. I'm so truly grateful for him.   The Dental A Team (33:32) And we have our incredible consultant Pam. Pam is just a joy. She is someone who just loves deep. She is so freaking brilliant at all things dental. She comes with this incredible experience of DSOs and of running huge teams and of consulting to tons of offices. And she just is a joy. She's someone who is thorough and on top of her A game. And I am just truly so grateful for her on our team, on our consultant team, being able to just deliver incredible value to our clients.   and also bringing insane value to our company as well. And then we also have Tyler. Tyler is on our customer success team and Tyler just brings this extensive background of dentistry with him. He is someone who really just jumps in, who has a very soft demeanor, but is a go-getter, has grit, has determination, who loves our clients. Our clients feel so safe and seen and heard by him. And for him to be one of the first impressions of Dental A Team, I think is just such a compliment to him.   to his skillset, to who he is as a person, and we are so lucky to have him on our team as well.   The Dental A Team (34:38) And I think like, as I look at my whole team, as I look at all these people that yes, I just said them in front of you. I told you.   and I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about Alex and Sissy who are podcast gurus behind the scenes that have been doing this with me for years. Alex writes the most beautiful show notes of any person that I've ever met. That woman is so magical with words. She's a published author this year. Just so freaking proud of her and so grateful to know her and to have her put together the podcast for you guys every single day, every single week. Sissy for editing it up for us, for making the commercials, for making sure that all the pieces are always put together for you guys.   Like these people just love, they're so incredible. They're just magical. I'm so, so grateful that we get to have all of these people to serve you, to love you. I'd be remiss if I didn't say thanks to Jason. Jason is my ride or die, my love. He's such an amazing human. He just loves me so purely guys. Like to have someone in your corner that loves you and loves you fully and completely.   and just wants the best for you. He's my biggest cheerleader. He's the one who brings me food when I'm on meetings all day. He's the one who's like pumping me up behind the scenes. He's the one who makes every single one of my dreams not seem crazy, audacious and just loves me for them and encourages me to pursue them. Constantly boosts me up, tells me to join you guys, tells me to take the risk, tells me that people need to hear these messages. And I'm so thankful for him. You guys, I'm so grateful. As I say this and like, I'm not gonna lie to you, all of you,   should go tell your team how much you love them because me just doing this podcast helps me see how lucky I am to be surrounded by brilliant people. You guys had so many be like, I look at last year to this year. My team has almost doubled in size. If you've listened to this for the years, you've heard me just go through this every single year. And I will continue to do this forever because my team deserves public recognition and private recognition. These men and women are here as amazing people that make me better.   that push me, that challenge me, that make me laugh. And this is a team of virtual people. So I want you just to love on your teams, to love on yourselves, and to really, truly, truly know that like, we are so blessed to live this world, to be able to be a part of this. I'm so thankful for my team. And if you didn't know, that's just our team. That's all of us. And I'm so grateful for them because I really would encourage each of you to do what I just did to your team.   in some way. And as you guys wrap today, I just hope that you have the most magical day, that you have a ton of fun doing whatever it is, and that you really do check your vital of how is my giving KPI? Am I giving? Am I feeling fulfilled? And if not, I would encourage you guys to choose one thing, one area of your life to make it just a little bit more bright, a little bit more giving, because honestly, the secret to living is giving.   And I hope that you know that I adore you, that I cherish you, that I'm so excited for you and me to be hanging out on the podcast. And I want you to know how much I value you, how much I appreciate you. And I hope you know that and I hope you feel loved. I hope that you feel appreciated. I hope that you remember that you are so blessed to be doing what you're doing, to be living the life that you're living, no matter how great or hard it is today, you are so blessed to be able to do this.   One day you dreamed about this life and now it's yours. And I'm so, so, so grateful to have you guys here. I'm so grateful for all the blessings that we get to be. I'm so excited for this next year around us. I'm so excited to work with you. I'm so excited to see you in person. I'm so, so, so excited for this beautiful life. And I'm honored and blessed to be able to serve you, to love you, to encourage you, to inspire you, and to be in this journey and this part of your life with you.   And if I can serve you in any way, reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com Go have a magical Thanksgiving. Love people, give them hugs. Remember, we get one life to live and I hope that you make it the most magical you possibly can. And with that, thanks for listening and I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team podcast.  

When it comes to scaling smarter, not scattered, there are three mistakes owners make that hurt efficiency, profitability, and leadership. Kiera talks about how Dental A-Team helps practices simplify methods so that success is humming across all locations. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I hope you are having such an amazing day. Today is podcasting day and I actually did a little reel for you guys to come and enjoy getting ready for me on podcasting day. My husband and I, we did this funny thing when I got like amped myself up and we're like, I love my life. I love my job. I love podcasting. And I don't know if you guys have seen that little girl.   who does that where she gets so excited about life and it's like, I love my bed, I love my hot tub, I love my view. And truly I love all of you. And I'm just super excited to be here with you podcasting, to be talking about great things in dentistry. And today I think that this one's going out to our multi-practice owners. And these are three costly gaps that I've noticed within multi-practice ownership that really try to highlight some of the gaps because at the end of the day, the podcast was created   to help all dentists elevate, to help all of us rise, to positively impact the world of dentistry in the greatest way possible. And that's what we're about. That's what our mission is. That's what I'm about. And so today going out to those multi-practice owners, or for those of you thinking about multi-practice ownership and do you want to do this? do you want to like, what are some of these gaps that maybe could also impact solo practice owners? So at Dental A Team, do work with solo practice owners, multi-practice owners. We work with...   like from basically one million, you know, you're maybe at that 650, one million range, all the way up to that 10, 15, $20 million range as well for practices. And there is a no one size fits all in Dental A Team I'm very, very, very, very big on who we hire and who the people are within our company. And with our clients that this is your life. This is your dream. There is no ultimate destination that we're trying to get all of our practices to. There is no final   You've got to hit this in order to be excellent within Dental A Team. is what is your life? We have some owners that are working at two or three days a week. We have some owners that are working six days a week. We have some that want multi-practice ownership. have others that want solo practice ownership. We have some that are solo practitioners doing 4 million in one location of about six to seven operatories. We have others that are in multi-locations doing 2 million. So really there is a no one size fits all. It's more what do you want to be? And we call this the yes model. So where do you   personally and professionally want to be. stands for earnings to make sure you're profitable and S stands for systems and teams to support that. So really making sure that way you can say yes to your life, yes to the things you want in life. That's what we're about. So with that, like when you look at multi-practice ownership, it does not necessarily mean adding more profit. I've talked to several multi-practice owners that are actually making less money in multi-practice ownership than they are.   prior to expanding to multi locations. Think about it. You've got one location that's doing really well, the other one's not doing so well, well, your good one has to then support your not so cash flowing one. So sometimes it actually can be a lot more costly for you. And so for you to just realize that some of the ways that we can do this will actually impact solo practitioners. ⁓ And so the three things that we're gonna work on today are like,   things that hurt efficiency, they hurt profitability and they hurt leadership. So when we look at this, doing a deep dive on that, that's really what I want you to look at of like how you can scale smarter and not scattered because really with multi-practice ownership, I remember the day we opened our second location. Our first practice was doing, it was 500,000 to 2.4 million in nine months. And then we opened our second location and you better believe that it was like just adding more fuel to this already burning chaos fire. I think that's really, really clear. And I hope you heard that it was adding more fuel.   to the chaos fire, not to the profitable fire, but to the chaos fire. ⁓ And that was really, really, really struggling. ⁓ It was hard on me. It was hard on our practice. It was hard on the team. I was not showing up as a great manager. I was not showing up as a great ⁓ leader. I was not showing up as a great partner. ⁓ I was not showing up great in my marriage. It was like literally just trying to swim through and feel like I was trying to survive rather than doing it smart. And so that's something really big that we've been wanting to do for all of you is   to give you this smarter way. Dental A Team was really here for you. It was built by people who are just like you, who have been in your shoes, they don't just understand you, but have actually been in your shoes, who's walked the walk, talked the talk, and we've done it very successfully. So I love to help offices. Hopefully we're helping you. ⁓ And if you love this podcast, please be sure to like it, start, share it, because that's how we're able to help and influence more people. number one, the biggest number one miss is no centralized operations. So that means ⁓ we don't...   we don't have a central plan and instead our practices are individual islands. This was very much my practices. We had our one and it was doing certain things and we had our second one and it was not doing certain things. And so going from each practice felt like I was going to multiple different locations, multi different pieces and that really gets hard. And so we have inconsistent systems which means we have unpredictable outcomes. And then on that, like we did not have a set way that we'd schedule. So we'd schedule one way at our first location another way at our second location.   Our billing was not the same. The way we were insurance verifying, our fee schedules weren't even the same because we were in two different cities. And so we had different fee schedules. ⁓ Reporting was not the same. We did not have leaders in both practices. We did not have SOPs that could scale. Like truly our operations manual was not done and we just thought buy another practice and let's go through this. Rather than having a set standard, and this is something I'm really big on when people want to go to multi-practice ownership or they're already in multi-practice ownership. This is really where we start. There's a practice that we're working with and   I think about them, were, the solo doctor was running around to every single location, trying to out-produce the problems instead of fixing the problems at the base level. And that's going to be through this of like centralized systems and getting systems in place and like having our scheduling and our billing and our cashflow consistent and looking at each of the individual practices ⁓ to make sure that they are centralized. And so when we work with multi-locations,   What we do is we actually simplify it down. So you don't necessarily have to have centralized billing or scheduling like right away. Once you get to that four or five, usually it's very recommended to have centralized billing or I've got some practices that are multi like it's one location, but they have about 15 to 17 operatories. Well, that does count in my opinion as multi ops, multi practices, cause a lot of times multi practices are like five ops or more. So you think about a 15 op practice that's like three practices, but just under one roof.   So even in this larger practice, I often recommend we start to centralizing. So we have a set standard of how we're doing billing. We have different reporting metrics. You've got to have the KPIs. We've got to have the set system. So what we started to do is we standardized the operatories. So all ops are the same. We standardized how we're scheduling. We're all in the same softwares. We have an SOP. So we've got our front office, our back office teams, and we do the exact same way. So how we're doing it. We had both practices auditing each other so that we standards were not getting missed and it wasn't.   Well, this practice does it this way and this one does it this way. No, we're trying to make these standardized. that way, again, it's not so that way we can't have our own flare and variety at the different locations, but it's so that way when practices show up and doctors show up, we're actually able to be efficient and effective because we're able to have it be the same. It's like, could you imagine ⁓ if your practices were like everybody's varying different houses? So the way I put my silverware in my house might be very different than where you put your silverware in your house.   So just imagine we've got five different houses, how much easier it would be if we all walk in and we all agree that silverware goes to the right of the dishwasher. Well, now, no matter where the dishwasher is placed in a house, we know silverware will always be to the right of the dishwasher. Just like when we walk into an operatory, we always know that the ⁓ disposable, so our gauze, our cotton, is always to the right of X. It all practices. So as much as we can get them similar, so that way it's just more efficient, it's more streamlined, everything is working together rather than against each other.   but truly getting centralized operations in multi-operatories or multi-locations is going to be one of the biggest ways to cut costs, to save time, and to make it more efficient for a better patient care all the way around the board. So really look at your practice and see, do we have inconsistent systems? Are we doing things differently? Do we have different flares and flavors? Do we have like five different houses within our multi-practice ownership? And what could we do to unify it across all of the practices this quarter? And usually when I'm starting with an office,   I'm going to look for the scheduling because that's usually the fastest. Then the operatories will be my next piece that I'm going to go for. And then after that, we're going to go into our billing tactics and making sure that goes into it, which leads me right into point number two. And this is gap number two and it's profit per location is not being tracked. A lot of times when people get multipractices, what they do is they just keep it all under one tax ID number. I understand your reasoning. I did that when I started my multiple businesses. It actually gets really hairy scary. And so ⁓   Yes, like let's untangle this. I'm not a CPA. My job is not to be giving you financial advice. My job is just to help you as a consultant. We pair really well with CPAs. And so miss number two is when we don't have profit being tracked per location, but overall as total revenue, but not knowing which practice is profitable and which practice is struggling. That's a really, really, really big miss as a practice. So helping you just understand that you've got to a hundred percent.   make sure we're looking at the profitability and breaking it apart. So each practice has its own tax ID number. Yes, this is annoying. Yes, you have to fix the billing pieces for it, but each practice needs to be treated like its own individual business unit. within the bigger whole. So it's like we have the same standards, we have the same operatory setup, we have the same softwares, we have the same billing tactics, but what we have is we make sure each practice is profitable.   So we know how much are we paying for all the fixed versus variable costs and we're tracking those within each location. When team members travel between each location, they're actually paid out of two separate entities. So they could be technically putting in more than 40 hours, but if they're only putting 20 hours here and 30 hours here, technically that's not over time. It's like working two different jobs. Now you have to be careful with that to make sure that those employees are not overworked.   But making sure that like when I've got team members going to multi locations, I am tracking it per location. I am tracking it per practice. When I've got regional managers separating out that regional manager salary amongst all the locations to make sure is this practical profitable? And if not, what are the underperformers? What are the root causes? How can I get this profitable? Can we do block scheduling in there? Can I work on my costs? I've got two practices right now and their rent is much higher in one location. Well, if I've got higher rent over there and higher costs,   I have to produce more in that practice than I do. So I can't have the exact same block scheduling in both locations. I can still block schedule similarly, but I have to make sure that I'm hitting my correct overhead percentages and that each practice is profitable. We have separate credit cards for each location. So we're ordering on those separate credit cards. So it is per location. We have different bank accounts for each location. So the money's coming in so we can see what it is. And what's crazy is when offices actually do this, what they find is   they're actually able to quickly identify what the root causes of that practice. They're able to bring it up to par. like one practice, they're losing money due to not having hygiene reappointments in there. So like the hygiene team is not as profitable as they should be. So we laser focus in on that. We fix the systems across the board, but we laser focus on the practice that's struggling. And we're actually able to boost them by 400,000 per year just by fixing that one small problem, because we're not looking at the organization as a whole. Yes, you do need to look at the organization as a whole.   but you do need to like scope it down to how each practice is performing. And this should be weekly, monthly, quarterly to then assess how we're doing. ⁓ When people get into multi level DSOs, you better believe they're looking at their top performers and their lower performance. And a lot of times they cut those lower performing offices out because that's hurting their overall profitability of the business. So many offices have really high producing practices and they're dumping it to go save the other ones. Just like thinking about a real estate portfolio.   they're looking and rebalancing those portfolios, but for you to rebalance it is to make sure you're tracking the profit per location and we're fixing the issues at the base root problem. ⁓ And so really what it should be is you should A, make sure you're running them individually, B, do a P &L by location and let's figure out where our gaps are within the finances to see how can I make each location profitable and set that as the target as the goal for your regional, for your office managers.   This is the goal per location. I work with an office and we have six locations that we go to quarterly. And we are looking at their scorecards every single week, every single practice. And then we look collectively at the whole to make sure organization as a whole is profitable. Yes, when we started new and of course we're going to be dumping money into it. But the goal is for that new practice to be profitable. Six months to one year max is when they need to start breaking profit. And so when teams know this, when office managers know this, what happens is the whole   portfolio actually does better and the businesses are running much more effectively, efficiently with better patient care, better team awareness all around. So that's miss number two, ⁓ gap number two. Miss number three is not having consistent accountability. So when you have it, oftentimes it's just this chaos. Like I said, like we're adding more fuel to a chaos burning fire. And so ⁓ when we have that there's no roles, there's no structured check-ins, there's...   It just feels like hope and pray. And then we're trying to like get the profitability margins. We're trying to do all those pieces. So we've got to have cadences in there of weekly calls, having weekly scorecards and quarterly reviews. ⁓ And so when you have leaders at each location, what they do is they, get all office managers together on a weekly call. They look at the scorecards for their practices. They look cross company so they can look at all the other offices. So if I'm struggling with a profitability, but this office over here is doing really well.   office managers sync up, let's have you two work together, let's have you see what you're doing differently. That way everybody's able to be profitable. So that really helps. And then you empower all the leaders to own their KPIs and report back. So they're owning their teams, they're owning their departments, they're owning the profitability of their practice. And then this way we're able to have metrics that are the same across all locations. So having a set scorecard that's used, when we do it within our company, we have practice A, practice B, practice C.   Right now I've got an office I'm thinking of and practice A is super profitable and practice B is not. And they're just looking at it collectively as a whole versus saying, my gosh, we've got to get like practice B profitable. Practice B is not producing and it's not collecting what it should be. A lot of times also that profitability margin is hurting because we're not collecting. And so one practice is very much collecting, paying for the other practice, but it's just due to broken systems and not having that O-M responsible. And it's because we're spread across trying to be   ⁓ efficient, which is true, but we have to have individualized centralized accountability frameworks in each location. So it reports up. People know who's ultimately responsible for that practice for the different pieces, rather than it being we're all responsible for everything. That means nothing is actually truly being tracked. So ⁓ when we've implemented these scorecards across practices, usually what you start to see is you see an increase in profitability, an increase in collections, an increase in case acceptance, because everybody's looking   Like we're looking side to side, it's like Sudoku. I'm looking to see how am I comparing with my other practices and how can I get the support where I'm struggling? And then you also start to create cohesiveness as a unity. You start to create cross collaboration. And this is a huge, huge, huge mess in multi-practice ownership and even in bigger practices. So when you look at this and you have that weekly reporting rhythm, you have this weekly accountability, and then you start to empower your leaders to meet with their team members once a month.   and then have quarterly cadences where we're looking to see how we're doing, you start to see teams rise up. Because now it's like, great, we know what the scoreboard is. We know what we're aiming for. know everybody knows what they're accountable for. There's no more of this confusion of what should we be doing or should my practice do this, but your practice doesn't. You try to get them as standardized as possible. And what I will tell you is working with multiple multi-practice owners, this is not a dream. This is a reality that you should be striving for and that you can do. I love to work with Mac.   multi-practice owners because I love to take the chaos and turn it into simplicity. I love to help you see which like it's like a ball of yarn and you're like, my gosh, like pull this string or pull this string or pull that string. And like, we don't know how to untangle what we've created. And so doing these three misses of not having centralized operations. So making sure we're centralized across the board, making sure each practice is profitable and then having accountability across the board. When you streamline those across all your locations,   instantly things get better. Scaling is not great when it's chaos. Scaling is great when it's tightened, when it's predictable, and when it's consistent. That's when it becomes fun. That's when it becomes fun to be multi-practice honored, but it is not fun when it is the chaos. And so when we do this, this is something that I'm obsessed with. This is something I love to help offices. This is where I love to help regional managers figure out how to do this because a lot of times they don't even know. They've never done it before. They've just been a great office manager and doing one baby versus five babies.   We all know as parents and siblings and aunts and uncles, we know that one baby is a lot easier than five babies. However, five babies can actually be easier on certain levels when we have set standards and we have set processes and we have set things in place and we've got rhythms and we've got routines that actually sometimes can be easier than just one because it forces you to actually rise up. It forces you to be better than what you've been. And so with this, just know these are some of the three big gaps that we see in multi-practice ownership or large practice ownership.   These are some of the areas that we really expert help. And hopefully for you to just have a quick like checklist of like, where am I doing on my standardized ops? How am I doing on profitability of each location? And how am I doing on accountability, KPI tracking, scorecard accountability, weekly check-ins, implementing just a few of these things will radically help you. But sometimes it's so hard to lift your head up out of the bubble when you're living in the bubble. And so if you're struggling with that, reach out.   Like let's just have a conversation. Let's see if we're a right fit. If nothing else, we'll give you a lot of gaps, a lot of tools, a lot of tips and help you out. reach out, Hello@TheDentalATeam.com. Go to our website, TheDentalATeam.com and click on the book of call. This is what we do. We create structure for scale, clarity for leaders and profit for every location. Like that is what our obsession is. And so I'd love to help you out. As always, just know dentistry is the greatest place we could ever possibly be in. We are so blessed to be a part of dentistry.   And I just want you to remember like if multi-practice ownership or larger practice ownerships on the horizon, these are things to do. If you're already in the weeds of it, you know, it's a lot harder to actually do than you thought it was. And so reach out. There's no reason to do this alone. The industry is hard as it is. So there's no reason to do this alone. Reach out. And as always, thanks for listening. I'll catch you next time on the Dental A Team Podcast.  

In this episode of the Less Insurance Dependence podcast, host Lester De Alwis sits down with dental business expert Scott Plantenberg to talk about building real financial freedom by reducing reliance on insurance. Scott brings 30+ years of experience in dental practice growth, consulting, and transitions, and shares why fee-for-service practices often have higher value, stronger profits, and better long-term outcomes. Together, they explore the warning signs of PPO overdependence, how to safely transition away from low-paying plans, and why small practices should think more like DSOs when planning for growth. This conversation is full of practical advice, especially for dentists looking to build a more profitable and independent practice—whether they're just starting out or preparing for sale. Book your free marketing strategy meeting with Ekwa at your convenience. Plus, at the end of the session, get a free analysis report to find out where your practice stands online. It's our gift to you! https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/marketing-strategy-meeting/   If you're looking to boost your case acceptance rates and enhance patient communication, you can schedule a Coaching Strategy Meeting with Gary Takacs. With his experience in helping practices thrive, Gary will work with you on personalized coaching, ensuring you and your team are prepared to present treatment plans confidently, offer financing options, and communicate the value of essential dental services. https://www.lessinsurancedependence.com/csm/ 

In this episode of the Dental Boardroom Podcast, host Wes Read, CPA and financial advisor at Practice CFO, and Dr. Howard Farran, Founder of Dentaltown, delve into the evolving landscape of dental ownership from the rise of private equity in dentistry to the challenges and opportunities facing today's practitioners.They explore how cheap financing and investor enthusiasm fueled massive consolidation in the dental space over the past decade, and why the focus is now shifting from quantity to quality. As interest rates rise and capital tightens, DSOs and private equity groups are becoming more selective, prioritizing well-run, profitable practices over sheer scale.The discussion also contrasts private equity-led DSOs with those founded and guided by dentists, examining how leadership, culture, and long-term vision shape patient outcomes and professional integrity.Dr. Farran passionately defends the importance of dentist-led organizations, transparency, and long-term patient relationships, emphasizing that dentistry is a “sacred profession,” not just a business. Wes complements this view with a grounded financial perspective, offering practical advice for dentists who aspire to grow sustainably, without losing their clinical focus or personal balance.Key TakeawaysThe PE Boom and Shift: Low interest rates and abundant capital fueled a buying frenzy in dental practices, but the landscape is changing with higher borrowing costs.From Volume to Value: DSOs are now focused on high-quality operations and sustainable cash flow rather than mass acquisitions.Dentist-Led vs. Investor-Led DSOs: Dr. Farran stresses that DSOs led by clinicians, not “suits,” create better care models and stronger trust with patients.Operational Mastery First: Before expanding, dentists should perfect one successful “prototype” practice much like McDonald's perfected its first store before scaling.Liquidity and Transparency Matter: Private equity's lack of transparency and illiquidity pose risks; publicly traded or dentist-owned models offer more accountability.AI and Dentistry: Both see promise and potential pitfalls as AI expands into diagnostics and insurance, cautioning that technology can empower or restrict clinicians depending on who controls it.

In this episode of the Dental Boardroom Podcast, host Wes Read, CPA and financial advisor at Practice CFO, sits down with Howard Farran, founder of Dentaltown and one of the most influential thought leaders in the dental industry. Together, they explore the evolution of dentistry from emerging AI technology to the rise of DSOs, the challenges new grads face, and the skills needed to thrive in today's rapidly shifting landscape. This episode delivers raw insights, bold perspectives, and practical lessons for dentists at every stage of their careers.Key PointsAI & the Future of DentistryAI is transforming dentistry at historic speed—comparable to the rise of the internet.Dentaltown is building AI tools to unlock insights from 10+ million dental conversations.AI won't replace dentists but dentists who adopt AI will replace those who don't.Example: Robotics like Yomi are enhancing implant surgery, not eliminating the surgeon.The Real DSO LandscapeNot all DSOs are massive corporate chains.The real competition for private practices? Local 4–9 location DSOs scaling smartly across small regions.These local groups win by leveraging:Shared marketingCentralized operationsBetter purchasing powerStructured systemsAdvice for Young DentistsStudent debt is real, but so are lifestyle choices that amplify it.Early career focus should be:Clinical reps and speedLearning practice systemsStrong mentorshipThe best first job is one that teaches:Business operationsFull-scope clinical carePatient flow and case acceptanceThe Competitive Edge for Private PracticePatients choose loyalty, trust, and relationships.Private practices win when they deliver:Consistency in careStable teamsReal human connectionHigh staff and doctor turnover in corporate settings creates opportunities for private offices to stand out.Know Your Numbers With the Right AdvisorA general accountant isn't enough in dentistry.Dentists need advisors who understand:PPO strategyOverhead benchmarksPractice-specific financial planningGrowth vs. profitabilitySpecialized financial guidance is a competitive advantage.Insurance is Not the Whole MarketHalf of patients don't have dental insurance.Present multiple treatment paths:Basic → Mid-tier → Ideal careNever assume what a patient can or can't afford—let them choose.Who Should Listen?✔ New dentists navigating debt and career choices ✔ Private practice owners competing with DSOs ✔ Clinicians curious about AI adoption ✔ Anyone wanting unfiltered industry truth

Top 5 Topics:- Dentistry From California to Tennessee- The Truth About Dental Insurance and Patient Confusion- Root Canals, TikTok Myths & Biologic Dentistry — Fact vs Fiction- Life After Dental School — GPR Residency, DSOs & Choosing Your Path- Dentists on Social Media — Marketing, Cancel Culture & The New FrontierQuotes & Wisdom:10:38 — “When an insurance company says ‘100% covered,' that ‘100%' is often only 10–20% of what it actually costs to deliver care.”12:32 — “Dentistry feels optional—until it isn't. I've seen people land in the hospital with neck and face infections because an infection was ignored.”13:30 — “Letting a chronic infection linger can cost you bone that you need for that future implant—and other options. Prevention preserves choices.”14:58 — “Not every wisdom tooth needs to come out. If it's clean, functional, and symptom-less, we leave it.”19:31 — “I make content about what I'm actually thinking—humor when it fits, serious when it matters—so it teaches and connects.”22:33 — “At the VA the sky's the limit clinically—options aren't shut down by finances, in certain situations, so care can be truly patient-centered.”27:08 — “Specializing should be about fit, not momentum. If you're already getting cold feet before Match, listen to that.”33:07 — “If you want us to market, network, and grow the practice, give us skin in the game—an ownership track.”48:44 — “Social media isn't just ‘posting'; it's a pre-consult. Patients meet your vibe before they ever sit in the chair.”41:59 — “Different platforms, different cultures—Instagram is refined; TikTok can be a brawl. Post with clarity and expect misreads.”Questions:01:29 — “Why Tennessee—why'd you switch over there?”03:40 — “Give me one ‘good' and one ‘bad' way the move has felt so far?”07:07 — “What procedures are you doing that others in your office haven't really done yet?”09:11 — “How is it practicing dentistry in Tennessee—fee-for-service or heavy insurance?”10:38 — “Patients hear ‘100% covered' from insurance—what are your thoughts on that mismatch and the blame dentists get?”17:37 — “When a patient says ‘no root canal' because of what they saw online, how do you respond?”19:25 — “What's your favorite part of creating content—what are you on lately and how do you approach it?”21:09 — “Is GPR vs jumping straight to practice the #1 thing students ask you about?”23:33 — “When did you realize (or not) that a specialty was for you?”34:05 — “In California, do you need a GPR to work—or can you go straight in?”31:10 — “DSO or private practice—where do you land and why?”Now available on:- Dr. Gallagher's Podcast & YouTube Channel- Dose of Dental Podcast #194My watch in this episode = Tag Heuer Aquaracer Calibre 16 Chrono- 11.2025

On today's episode, we're joined once again by Janet Hagerman, recorded during a timely conversation about the evolving hygiene landscape in group dentistry. As a fractional Chief Hygiene Officer (CHO), Janet partners with emerging DSOs to build hygiene departments that are not just profitable, but also patient-centered and scalable.  Live from Florida, Janet and Dr. Mark Costes discuss the real-world impact of the hygiene shortage, what it takes to create an effective periodontal program, and how DSOs have matured into more doctor- and patient-centric organizations. Janet also unpacks the strategies behind her books Selling Dentistry and Meetings Make Money, and explains why assisted hygiene, KPIs, and strong practice culture are essential for sustainable growth. Be sure to check out the full episode from the Dentalpreneur Podcast! EPISODE RESOURCES https://www.janethagerman.com https://www.truedentalsuccess.com Dental Success Network Subscribe to The Dentalpreneur Podcast

This week, the Dental Amigos welcome Dr. Bob “Dee” Dokhanchi, seasoned private practice dentist, tech advisor, and founder of the Facebook group Dentistry in General. A passionate advocate for transparency and grassroots reform, Bob brings energy and insight to the future of dentistry. In this episode, Bob shares his journey from clinical honors at Loyola to leading advocacy efforts within the ADA. He discusses DIG-A-PALOOZA , food insecurity among dental students, the licensing compact debate, and the challenges of selling to DSOs—all with his signature “fuzzy math” clarity and entrepreneurial fire. To learn more about Bob and Dentistry in General, visit https://dentistryingeneral.com or join the Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/share/g/16J7DacEYY/ Listeners who want to reach Paul can do so at Paul@DentalNachos.com and those who want to reach Rob can do so at Rob@RMontgomery-law.com.

Back in 2011, I gave a lecture called “The Coming Storm for Dentistry.” I warned that insurance companies would choke reimbursements while corporate dentistry scaled up and swallowed private practices.Fourteen years later… well, here we are.In this week's Practice Autonomy Podcast, we open that time capsule and compare those predictions to the real 2025 data — and it's chillingly accurate:

Dr. Tiffany Green is a pediatric dentist from the Jackson, Mississippi area. We have a great lunchtime conversation regarding a variety of topics including:- Why dropping Delta Dental was the right move for her practice- How her love for running keeps her sharp as a pediatric dentist- Why DSOs are struggling- Dr. Green's experience and appreciation for Invisalign First, and how she incorporates ortho into her practice

In this episode of The Lifestyle Practice Podcast, Dr. Derek Williams breaks down exactly how he sold his dental practice without a broker—what he did, why he did it, and what he'd change. Derek covers building a bank-ready prospectus (financials, KPIs, payer mix), where and how he marketed the listing (FB groups, classifieds, ADA Marketplace), keeping anonymity (NDAs, separate email), and running negotiations when you're representing yourself. He also compares private-dentist buyers vs. DSOs, talks timing (why not being in a rush matters), transition terms, real estate flexibility, and the role of a flat-fee attorney. Whether you're considering a DIY sale or debating a broker, you'll leave with a clear framework and practical next steps. Connect with us: • Learn more about 1-on-1 coaching • Get access to TLP Academy • Suscribe to The Lifestyle Practice Podcast • Email Derek at derek@thelifestylepractice.com • Email Matt at matt@thelifestylepractice.com • Email Steve at steve@thelifestylepractice.com

In this episode, Mark Brodson, President and Managing Broker of Resource Commercial Advisors, shares how his firm helps healthcare providers, including DSOs and direct primary care practices, navigate real estate from site selection to lease management.

Kiera is joined by Dr. Hunter Bennett of Bonita Endodontics to dive into the ins and outs of dentistry partnerships, including hiring for passion, splitting tasks, going DSO, and more. Episode resources: Subscribe to The Dental A-Team podcast Schedule a Practice Assessment Leave us a review Transcript: The Dental A Team (00:00) Hello, Dental A Team listeners. This is Kiera and I am like beyond excited for this podcast. This is all of my worlds combining into one in such a beautiful, magical way. The guests that I have on today actually is a throwback to my Midwestern days. So I met Dr. Hunter Bennett at Midwestern when he was a pre-dentist ⁓ in the sim clinic of good old Midwestern University in Arizona. ⁓ That school is better known as the Harvard of the West and Hunter was a dental student there.   And then he went on for endo residency at the University of Nebraska Medical Center in 2017. Following his residency, he returned to Arizona and practice in the mountain town of Prescott for two years. In 2019, he moved his family across the country all the way over to Florida. He is married to his beautiful wife, Lacey. They have five kids from 12 to seven months old, 12 years old to seven months old. Hunter is busy. And the reason I wanted to Hunter on is because yes, I love a good throwback to Midwestern. Like it is truly the highlight of highlights, but Hunter has gone through   being an associate, being an owner, selling to a DSO. And I wanted him to come on and give perspectives of all of those, because I think so many dentists are questioning, what's my path? What's in front of me? And Hunter is kind of like, I feel like you're the buffet of dentistry. So like, which one was actually best for you? And I'm really excited for that. So Hunter, welcome. I'm so proud of who you are. I'm like, mama bear heart over here. Just so proud of you. Welcome to the show today. How are you?   Hunter Bennett (01:25) this is so good. I'm so excited. I love the buffet of dentistry. That's like maybe the nicest name anybody's ever given me. I love it. It's so good.   The Dental A Team (01:31) Hey, you're welcome.   You're welcome. And how fun is this? As we were like prepping, told you, was like, Hunter, it's just like you and me, Sim back in Sim clinic. Like we're over there. Like you're prepping your like class ones, classes. I still remember you walking up with loops, gloves on. You knew I'd smack you with a ruler. Like not really smack guys. I was nice in that. But if those gloves did not come up at Sim, like take those off. Kiera, come on. Do I really have to? Yeah, gross. I'm training you. Do not have cross contamination. So welcome back to Sim. It's so good to see you again.   Hunter Bennett (01:59) I   haven't forgotten that I changed my gloves just literally all the time all the time so I appreciate it. It's how this has come full circle though truly I mean like and you haven't changed like you're still the same person just awesome and you're just always that bright personality that bright in the lab so and it's cool just to see how far you've come I'm really proud of you it's awesome.   The Dental A Team (02:19) Thank you, thank you. I think it's serendipitous because the whole reason I built the company was for students like yourself. I think the love, I feel like emotions coming on and I don't wanna cry. Like I genuinely just love the Midwestern students so much. I like just so proud of you guys. I watched your journeys. mean, shoot, how long has it been since we graduated? Like I left Midwestern in shoot, like 2015, 2016 realm.   Hunter Bennett (02:44) That's where   I was. I think you got hired like when we got there. I think that that was your first year was my first year in the sim. And then you, I think you left with us too. So yeah, we kind of went to dental. We basically went to dental school together essentially. So yeah, you're basically a classmate. Yeah. 100%.   The Dental A Team (02:47) I did.   I think I did.   We did and helping you guys learn x-rays. Honestly, Dr. Smith   and Dr. Morrow did tell me that I care if you ever want to come to dental school, we don't even care. I didn't like confess this on like to the world. They didn't say all these words, but it basically was like, hey, we don't care what your death scores are. Like we'll accept you no matter what. I'll be that student. But then I decided I just love helping dentists. I love helping you guys. I love being that teammate to you. Like I was able to be in sim. I love seeing you succeed. I love being that support.   Hunter Bennett (03:06) Yeah, they won't care. They won't care.   Just get in. ⁓   The Dental A Team (03:23) that person that's there. Like when you're having those bad practicals or you need to chat shop or whatever it is. it's just real fun. And again, like mama bear proud of where you are and what you've done. and I ran into each other at the Dennis Money Summit together. And that was a throwback. You, Jeremy Mahoney, was like Midwestern crew was back together and just a fun time.   Hunter Bennett (03:28) Yeah.   You don't even, you   don't realize how huge our little side conversations were to me. And I texted you a little bit about this, but like, we don't have to get into all of that, but like just those few conversations literally changed my life. And I'm not exaggerating. I'm not exaggerating. So we can talk about that later, but ⁓ yeah, I so appreciate you and some of your insights and watching your journey and your presentation was just so off the charts.   The Dental A Team (04:03) Yeah. ⁓   Hunter Bennett (04:10) Everything about it was so good. Your stage presence, the delivery, ⁓ the message. I still can remember a lot of the stuff you said. So, ⁓ yeah, good job. It's just, I'm not surprised you are where you are. And like I said, it's been fun to watch and I'm just grateful for the opportunity to connect again. So, but yeah, you literally was life-changing for me. I'm not exaggerating.   The Dental A Team (04:18) Thank you. Thank you.   Well, that makes me really happy. And thank you. And we'll say that that's the dessert of the dentistry buffet here. So we'll save that conversation for our dessert. ⁓ But I think what you just said is what Dental A Team's purpose is like my purpose is life is my passion dentistry is my platform. And so I feel so blessed and lucky that dentistry brought all of us together and but able to help you have your dream life to be able to give conversations about that.   Hunter Bennett (04:34) Okay.   Sure.   The Dental A Team (04:56) At the end of the day, if businesses aren't serving our lives, then what are we doing? And I'm really getting sticky on that. I'm really starting to hunker down on that harder because I think it's so easy to obsess about the profit, the numbers, like what route should I go? But at the end of the day, if it's not serving the bigger purpose of our life, of our family, of who we want to be, I really think it's a good time to question that and to ask to make sure the star we're headed towards is truly the North Star that we actually want to achieve.   Hunter Bennett (05:01) percent.   The Dental A Team (05:23) So I'm really grateful and yeah, I'm just excited for you to share with our audience of Hunter Bennett going through a associateship, residency, ownership, DSO, and then cherry on top of side conversation that we had. ⁓ and just know that all conversations, I think it's a good Testament. They're just, they're genuine. Like, I just want you guys to succeed in whatever path that looks like. And if I can be a guide in any of that rock on, that's what I'm here for. So just like I used to give you teeth.   help you learn to take your gloves off. I'm here to help you make life choices and better practice decisions too.   Hunter Bennett (05:58) Absolutely. You're crushing it. Well, so yeah, yeah. Pros and cons. So I think, you know, before diving into that decision, I think it's really important. Like the big part of my journey was I've just learned so much along the way that my first job was in a place where in Prescott, like that's where I wanted to like, was like, okay, this is, I'm going to be in this town until I die. Like I'm so happy here.   The Dental A Team (06:00) Okay, take it away. Walk me through. Walk me through the pros cons. Let's hear about it.   Hunter Bennett (06:24) And I was in an amazing practice. Like he was such a good practice. the guy that I replaced, ⁓ Nate Duesnup, he, my coming there sort of sparked his leaving because that he had been trying to get in that practice as an owner for quite a while. He'd been there seven years. so my coming sparked a lot of those conversations and they didn't really come to an agreement per se. so ⁓ Nate went and bought a practice in Florida. I, you know, I kind of found that out along the way and I showed up and then me and Nate became friends.   But I knew within probably the first two months I wasn't going to stay at this practice like long, long, long term. Um, it was very clear to me that there wasn't going to be a pathway to partnership. I was a business major. I always planned on owning practice. Um, but this was a really good opportunity. I'm really, really grateful for, um, just that, that chance that I had, but I knew immediately, like I wasn't, um, I wasn't seen as a partner, you know, which is very like, wasn't, I was just an associate and I felt like I just had way more to offer.   The Dental A Team (06:59) you   Hunter Bennett (07:22) I was, I was probably as much of a gung ho person as, as you can be coming out of residency as far as trying to be an owner. ⁓ but I was willing to like sort of sweat my way in if that's what it took just to be where I, where I wanted to live. ⁓ so long story short, like I learned pretty quickly that wasn't going to happen. So started just taking a bunch of CE, ⁓ traveling and then became good friends with Nate. Nate's like, Hey, just come check out Florida, you know? And, ⁓ so yeah, I went out there and, and, ⁓   The Dental A Team (07:35) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (07:52) If I've ever had a prayer answered as clearly as that, that was it. I mean, was, was clear as day. That's where my family was supposed to be. I actually served a mission for my church in Florida. I never planned to go back. ⁓ And that's ⁓ Tampa. So they actually, yeah, it was inside my mission, but I live in Naples and so didn't spend a ton of time in Naples, but yeah. So anyways. ⁓   The Dental A Team (08:03) No way. Same place?   Yeah?   I know Naples. I consulted a practice in Naples.   It's a beautiful place. Yeah, it's awesome.   Hunter Bennett (08:16) Yeah, yeah.   It's a, it's an awesome place and, ⁓ coming here was, it was definitely not like what I envisioned, but the practice was and the partnership was, and we experienced just like when I got here, he had bought the practice and the old owner was staying on like 50 % of the time and Nate was just grinding, you know, expanded the office. He had already done a lot of the footwork to get us to seven ops and.   We grew so fast, like we tried to find associates, like within my first six months, I didn't even bought in yet. We were already interviewing for associates and we couldn't find anybody that we just really wanted to send offers to. But yet we were just like in the chair all day. And I'm sure you hear this all the time. Like, I'm sure you get this all the time, Cary. It's like just grinding and grinding and then like you get done and then you're dealing with, you know, assistance and days off and they want to raise and, and just drama.   The Dental A Team (09:01) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (09:12) Taxes, know workers comp I mean you name it like all the things that come after work that are so stressful and Having a young family and and then just like like responsibilities outside of work like, know for us like there's a lot of stuff going on at church ⁓ At home. I was coaching my kids. So again, I think a lot of people that are listening can relate to this lifestyle and I think   The Dental A Team (09:14) Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (09:36) I as as I prepped for this conversation, we had a couple options. One option was to bring in a consultant, which we had thought about, and we already because we both came from the same practice in Arizona that had used a consultant, we felt like we sorta. We already knew how to be efficient. We already had a ton of systems in place. I think we struggled a little bit culturally. And I think frankly, this isn't a. You didn't put me up to this, but like had we hired someone like you like honestly, we may not have gone to DSO route. Frankly, like.   The Dental A Team (09:50) Yeah.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (10:05) Cause all the things we were struggling with, think could have been dealt with in a different way. But we saw the DSO route as, as an option, you know, um, and there's, mean, we went back and forth and like, that's all we would talk about. We'd get done and then we talked about it for like an hour and then we'd go in cycles and circles. And this is the pro, this is the con. And ultimately we landed on, you know, um, this is just a really good way to sort of bring some balance in our lives. And I'll be honest with you. I, I hated, hated.   The Dental A Team (10:10) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (10:35) hated like the first six months, the transition period for us was particularly hard. We have a very unique practice. But I'm in almost four years now, and I will say like, I feel like it all happened for a reason. And it's really allowed me a ton of flexibility in my life, and my lifestyle has improved a ton. So kind of what you described as sort of your purpose and letting people   The Dental A Team (10:40) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (11:03) kind of see like what is your North Star? Like what is your real purpose? ⁓ I don't think that would have been, I don't think I would have been able to discover that had I continued on the path that I was on, honestly. So a DSO I think is good. First of all, when you talk about like a DSO, it's like a swear word, right? Because there's so many types of DSOs and there are some bad players out there for sure. And so like deservedly so, there's a lot of companies that should have a bad name, but there's also some really good ones.   The Dental A Team (11:14) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (11:33) And that was one   thing, like we interviewed around and we met with a lot of different groups and talked to people from different groups. And I think there's a lot of good groups out there, but I'm actually quite happy with our group overall. And it's been four years and I will say like a lot of the turmoil I felt in that first six months was just the change, know, the change in trajectory, like giving up. I still run my practice. The thing is like, no one knows that I'm in a DSO. Like people know like my referring doctors now, but like they don't care.   The Dental A Team (11:44) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (11:59) Because nothing changes like nothing I run the way I want to run it and that's very unique to my group. I would say we hire we fire we make days off like we do pretty much anything we want we bought you know, we can get equipment so I Feel like my day-to-day really hasn't changed and I know that's not true for every DSO I think DSOs can be compared to like like restaurants for example. It's like ⁓ don't go out to eat because it's not healthy It's like well, I mean generally speaking probably true, but there are some healthy options out there   The Dental A Team (12:00) Right.   Mm-hmm.   Totally.   Right.   Hunter Bennett (12:29) And   ⁓ that's kind of how I see DSOs is like I do think there are some healthy options out there and it totally depends on personality. So. ⁓ I will say like the pros for me so far and you can ask me like maybe some more specifics, but yeah, yeah, so I'm so. Yeah, like that's that's just the general story, but I will say like you know this far in like that's kind of the general gist of my experience and if I could do it all over again, I I probably would. ⁓   The Dental A Team (12:37) Mm-hmm.   I'm going to ask some questions. I'm like plunging behind. I've got a decent amount. I'm excited for it.   Hunter Bennett (13:00) I say though, like I am very curious to see what it would have been like to have hired, you know, like to bring you in and just say like, all right, come in here. And a couple of my assistants were like, don't bring the consultant, don't hire a consultant. And I don't think that really influenced me as much as I felt like, honestly, I just felt like I didn't need one, but looking back now, I think that definitely would have been a really good option. So I think you either go the DSO route or you bring someone in. But again, I talked to dentists, I work with a bunch of different dentists. I talked to a bunch of guys all the time, every day.   The Dental A Team (13:08) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (13:30) And they haven't had such good experiences with consultants either. So I'm sure you'd get the same thing, you know, but.   The Dental A Team (13:33) I do. That's   one of my first questions when I walk into an office. Tell me what you think about consultants and it's a rip. And I want them to, because why not? Like let's get it on the table. And I think, I think the difference with us consulting versus others, because consultants are going to be there's good and bad, just like there are of DSOs, just like there are of marketing, which is like there is a people. I think the difference is one,   Hunter Bennett (13:39) Yeah, yeah, totally.   The Dental A Team (13:58) I come a team member first. So like my job is to help dentists and I'm a business owner and a multimillion dollar business owner second. And so when you combine those two perspectives together, I very much understand the business side of it. And it's not just theories and ideas. It's true, like hard knocks, ⁓ hundreds and thousands of offices and team members of what are the processes. But second, like I don't hire MBA students. I don't hire people that are just like,   you know, they, want to be a consultant. hire people that have a passion for it. They've been in the front and the back office. So I think teams, that's why I actually named it Dental A Team. want it to be dentists and teams because so many consulting companies either focus on the dentist or they focus on the team, but not both. I'm like, but you have to get both on the same page. And teams are freaked out by consultants. Consultants come in and fire. Consultants are stressful. Consultants are rigid. They make you do it this way. And my thoughts are no one, it's you with your vision.   Hunter Bennett (14:42) Mm-hmm.   The Dental A Team (14:55) it's what do the numbers tell us and the profitability and three based on those two pieces, what are the systems that we need to improve based on like the problems in the practice too. And when you go about it that way and my job is to make life easier, not harder. I think when you go about it that way, teams are not as scared. And that's also why we built the podcast. So teams could hear us. They could learn like, what do we talk about? Because I think a lot of it's just the unknown. And so I, that's going to be like my two cents for a consultant, but I'm going to like back up for you Hunter on, have questions for you.   Hunter Bennett (15:24) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (15:25) I have question marks all the way around. One, think actually excellent point on the associateship and doctors listening, Hunter, you said you were a very equipped, very eager associate. You have a degree in business. I mean, you've got like the little gold star around you, a prime, ⁓ an associate prime for partnership that I think so many doctors are afraid and they don't know how to build partners in that they actually miss a lot of golden opportunities. And so   I like that was one of the nuggets I picked up from your story of like, I don't know who the doctor was and I'm not here to judge. They have their own story, their own reasons. But I think when doctors have great associates like yourself, you're destined to like, I know you're going to own a practice. When you come in with that type of acumen behind you, you're going to own a business. So either I can be smart and snag you and partner in with you and have you help me build and create it. Or I can let you go and you're either going to become my competitor or you're going to go somewhere else. And so there's no right or wrong.   but I think so many owner doctors, do see this. They're afraid bringing on a partner, you do like take home less pay. Like with air quotes, you get paid upfront, but you're like day in, day out is less. ⁓ But I really wanted to highlight that because I think like, well, it all worked out perfectly for you, Hunter. I think doctors listening to this could definitely learn from that. And it's okay if you don't want a partner. Some people are adamant of no partners. They don't want to give any of that up. They don't want to give away the control. That's okay. Don't hire someone like Hunter.   Or be okay that he's gonna probably leave you in about one to two years. And like any thoughts around that? They do.   Hunter Bennett (16:50) Yeah. I think everybody goes through that. Yeah. No, a   hundred. Like I have a ton of thoughts about that because it's, it's, I do, because I mean, I hear it all the time, like every week where Dennis is like, well, I'm just going to plug in an associate and then I'll just take some time off. it's like, that's not really how it works because you have to decide in like Jeremy Mooney, for example, like I talked to Jeremy all the time. He's one of my best friends and you sort of, I know it, I feel like every time I talk to him,   The Dental A Team (16:57) Talents.   Hunter Bennett (17:19) And he wouldn't mind me saying this, like just inevitably what happens is when someone doesn't buy in all the way or they just treat it like a job, like they come and go, you know, and that's, that's the price you pay. And so as a specialist, like we have to maintain relationships and referring offices. if associates are coming and going, that is such a, it's it's a rough look. And then for a dental practice, it's the same thing where patients, know, patients come to me they're like, I went to this practice and I saw the third doctor in my third visit, you know, and it's, they don't like that turnover.   And so what you make in money you pay for in stress and headache, I think on an associate, like when you're making money on your associate, not to mention all the headaches that come with training, reviews, stuff like that. ⁓ And so, yeah, I think ⁓ I totally see both sides of it. And the doctor that Nate and I both work for, he's got like four associates now and he's crushing it. So like, good for him. know, like that's, he's doing really, really well.   The Dental A Team (18:14) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (18:16) ⁓ Me and eight are like best friends and we have this relationship that like will be friends for life like he's like he doesn't have any brothers like I'm like his brother he's like my third brother, you know, it's just We just have this amazing relationship that I wouldn't trade for anything, you know, and not all partnerships are that way I think we've been super super blessed and super lucky that way but when both partners are both givers and you both want to just work hard and you have their back no matter what like you can find that man like   The Dental A Team (18:21) Mm-hmm.   Agreed.   Hunter Bennett (18:44) whatever money you give up by being a partner, you'll get back in like that, just sitting down at the end of the day and having someone to talk to that you're equal in business plan with, to take risks with, to, you know, even just to have like that comfort of talking to someone, you know, like you you get done with a tough day and just having that person there is, is priceless. I don't think you can put a price tag on that. So I wouldn't give up my partnership with Nate for anything, you know, and, and,   The Dental A Team (19:00) Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (19:09) Yeah, and and I think that's quite unique like in our DSO like no one really knows like we have like 400 partners I think now and Like when they think of Nate they think a Hunter or when they think a Hunter they think about Nate like we're just known like you usually don't see one without the other so to the doctors out there that own if you can find someone like that or someone even remotely close like man and someone that's gonna stay long-term like you eliminate so much stress and so many headaches by being open to having a partner and then if you have associates that might come and go   The Dental A Team (19:20) Awesome.   Hunter Bennett (19:38) And you want, you have the space and the availability and you want to do that, that's an option. But if you feel like you're drowning and you can find someone that's a really good business partner, I definitely see the value. Cause Nate and I, spent the better part of two years looking for associates to work for us. And again, it's that whole thing of like, well, man, I don't think they're going to be, I don't think they're going to have the personality that we need. But you know, then you hire, then you interview the really good ones. You're like, well, they're going to want to be a partner so we can't hire them. So you're just always playing that game of like.   There is no perfect answer. You know, you don't, you don't have like a unicorn associate that's just, and maybe there are a few where they just are just a total 10 out of 10, but then they just don't want to own. just want to show up. So it's pretty rare. They will. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (20:17) Totally. And some will. It is.   But okay, that actually led me to my next point I wanted to dig into because partnerships, some are magical like you guys have and others sink ships. So I want to hear how did you get into the partnership? Like what, what does that look like? How much did you both bring? Like as much as you want to get into the nitty gritty with me, because I think partnerships are so challenging to do well and to hear that you and Nate have a great thing. So I'm almost like, okay,   Hunter Bennett (20:24) Yeah.   Yeah, totally.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (20:46) There were some tips about associateships and bring us and I agree like, welcome down, like have these people with you. They're going to grow your business. I could not do a Dental A Team does without incredible consultants. And while none of them are partners per se, a lot of them, I've given them opportunities to do different pieces, tip from the get-go. We talked about, offered her to be a partner. She's like, heck no, I want nothing to do with that, but give me my time and give me my life with my child and girl I'm with you forever. So get read, there are different things, but I mean,   Did I give up money when I first brought in all these other consultants to help out? The answer is yes. But I look at it now and it actually like makes me so giddy to see there are so many practices we're impacting that me as a solo person could not serve at that level. So that's, think the beauty of like, yes, there's a dip, but there's also growth in and serving that you can do at a higher level. So with that said on associates, now we're moving into partnerships. Walk me through Hunter. I want to know the like ins, outs, good, bad, like partnerships. I'm sure you guys have had.   some knockout drag outs. I'm sure you guys have had highs and lows in partnerships. I'm sure you like, but I'm curious, like, how did you guys structure it to make it great for both of you? And then I'm to go into DSO. So I want to know partnership though, because like, it's my buffet. I'm choosing an associate now buying and being partners in DSO.   Hunter Bennett (21:57) Yeah.   Yeah,   yeah, for sure. think the key was ⁓ for me and Nate, like we're both givers. And so, you know, we never have fought over money. you know, there's just never, we've just been lucky to not have that. We're very similar because we kind of cut our teeth in the same practice. We had the same philosophy too. Like just we're very, very efficient. both work super, super hard.   The Dental A Team (22:25) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (22:26) So we're both hard drivers that way. We're both very perfectionistic Like we we both do the same type of root canals like we we kind of have the same treatment philosophy, you know, ⁓ And granted he's seven years older than me So like Nate you I have to give him a ton of credit because he's just been super helpful clinically and like I felt like after years like I was actually I wasn't at my prime prime for sure But like I was I was I was cooking I was doing pretty good and he helped bring me up to where I am   The Dental A Team (22:50) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (22:53) Now, you know, I've been here like seven years now, but like that first year, like he still just helped me, you know, deal with some of the tougher cases. Naples is just a place that tough cases. But the thing that, thing, yeah, it's old people, retired, calcified, whatever stuff from Europe. That's like totally, totally crazy. But ⁓ he was just so patient. And so just, man, he was just so happy to have me here. Cause he was like, he was burning out. Like he was so tired. And so he was just grateful I was here. He always told me that.   The Dental A Team (23:01) Right? is. It's a good place for business.   Hunter Bennett (23:20) The way we structured it. I worked for him for a year and I was supposed to buy in after the first year, but COVID had hit. so banks weren't like, they were like, hold on, chill out. Like it was literally like March I was supposed to buy in. And so like, you know, we were like, me and him were like alternating days and like, you know, like sharing N95s cause that's all we had. And I mean, that's a whole nother thing. So that delayed the buy-in like six months. And during that time, like, yeah. Yeah.   The Dental A Team (23:27) ⁓ huh.   Yeah.   And hold on, before you go to that, when you moved out there, was it part of   your contract and agreement that you were going to buy in in a year? Was it 50-50? Were those things like in place? Were those like in your contract? Okay.   Hunter Bennett (23:51) Yeah, one year. Yeah, yeah, it was all agreed to.   And you know, I actually don't know if it was in, so the thing was like, when I was in Prescott, I went to the same church that Nate had gone to, like I went to the same congregation. So everybody that knew him just absolutely loved him. Like he was like the cream of the crop. Everybody was just like, you know, like I felt like I was partnering with like, you know, just this.   The Dental A Team (24:10) Mm.   Hunter Bennett (24:18) Completely amazing person which he is so I had no doubts. Yeah, it's like the Michael Jordan like not even I don't even know like analogy would be like Muhammad Gandhi like he was like just such this Just a good dude, you know and so I didn't have a lot of reservations as far as our agreements go and then just again, maybe not the smartest thing but like I don't know it may have been in the writing but I don't really remember and I wasn't that worried about it because I guess naively I trusted him and just felt like it would work out but this was all verbally agreed to   The Dental A Team (24:18) Michael Jordan of dentists.   Wow.   Because I do know for some people   like some people have it's the verbal agreement. I'm sure   Hunter Bennett (24:47) I would, mean, he would have been willing to, he would have been willing   to, and maybe it was, like it might have been in our first contract. I had David Cohen write it up, I had to go back and look, but he did our partnership agreement too. He's awesome for anybody that needs an attorney, but yeah, I've sent him a ton of people. But that was the thing, like we had all that agreed to, then the other conversation that I know a lot of people don't have, and a lot of people hold resentment about is how you're gonna   The Dental A Team (25:00) We do love David Cohen. We refer to him quite a lot.   Hunter Bennett (25:17) split profits. And so we decided early on, it's like, eat what you kill. Like if you do, so the way I did it, I, we, sort of calculated a rough guesstimation of what our overhead was. And then we gave ourselves like, we would do, okay, you get this percentage. We each get this percentage of our production. And then let's say it was like 45, 55, then we split the profits that same way. Whatever's leftover, we're going to split by that same amount. And frankly, like, I don't think we were ever correct.   The Dental A Team (25:18) Totally.   Mm-hmm.   by the amount that you produced? Is that correct? So,   okay.   Hunter Bennett (25:45) collected. we're   fever like our collection is same as product like we're yeah, so it's the same number but Yeah   The Dental A Team (25:50) Right. So sorry, let me back this up. So you guys go produce   and let's just use numbers. Usually in GP, it's 30 % of what you produce. Usually in specialty, you're like 40, 45 % of what you produce. Like let's just use some like loose numbers, hypothetical.   Hunter Bennett (26:03) Sure.   The Dental A Team (26:04) Nate, you produce, you're welcome. We've got this. So let's just say you produce 100 grand in a month. Nate produces 100 grand in a month. Let's say you guys are both taking 30 % your specialist. So giggle at me because I know you're not 30%. You both would be taking 30 grand of that leaving. We've got 70 from each of you, but we have overhead in that as well. So we've got to take our overhead out of there. So we've got 70, 70 hypothetical we're going to take. Let's just do let's leave at the end there's 60,000.   Hunter Bennett (26:21) Yep. Yep.   Yep. Yep.   Say 50.   The Dental A Team (26:33) 60,000 of profit   Hunter Bennett (26:34) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (26:34) at the end of it after you guys have produced 200,000, collected 200,000, you both have been paid your 30,000 each. Of that 60,000, how was that split? Was that a 50-50 split or was it based on like, let's say you produced 100 grand, but Nate produced 200 grand. Did the 60,000 at the end get split based on production amounts or was that like, how was the profit split?   Hunter Bennett (26:54) Correct.   Yeah, so we would just split the profit exactly like you described in the latter example where it's based on what you produced that month or collected that month, then we would split the profits that month. And I just had a spreadsheet, I did all the math. And so we would just work it out between the two of us. And we never had an issue. I would just plug it and just plug and chug and it was never an issue. And truly like...   The Dental A Team (27:09) Nice.   Hunter Bennett (27:19) We were never more than like 52 48, you know, that might've been like, ⁓ you know, I don't remember a month ever being off by more than 2 % or 4%. So it really wasn't a big battle. And one thing too, that I told Nate going into this, and this was for me, I had to just like, was president of like my business school, like my junior year president of the whole business school, like the vice president of all business school, my senior year, like   The Dental A Team (27:23) Thank you.   interesting.   Hunter Bennett (27:45) I was used to being leadership positions. I was used to sort of being in charge. But I knew coming here, he was there first. And I told him, was like, I know you're going to be the alpha. All the referrals know you. I'm just going to have to take that backseat role. And I think me just acknowledging that and accepting that was so important because I had no ego. I didn't have to prove that there was no competition between me and Nate. We were 100 % on the same team.   The Dental A Team (27:56) Mm-hmm.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (28:12) ⁓ Again, and maybe that's unique to a specialty practice because you're kind of working together maybe more than you would in a GP office. I don't know. ⁓ Or maybe you're competing for patients a little more. I'm not sure. I've never worked in a GP office. But the dynamics for us is like, we're just, there's like all the referrals. It doesn't matter which doctor you want. Like you're getting your next available doctor unless there's a few exceptions. So we were very good about having no egos. And that was really important to our partnership too. But   financially it was quite easy for us and convenient just because our numbers were pretty similar. Or if he took a couple weeks off, then obviously he'll still get his collections from that month, but then I would get a little bit bigger chunk of the profit. But then when I took my time off the next month, they would just work itself out. so, ⁓ and he was always, like I said, he was always at the end of the year, Nate always produces just a little more than me. And I was just okay with it. You know, I was like, whatever, hang on.   The Dental A Team (28:46) Mm-hmm.   Sure.   Sure.   Hunter Bennett (29:06) And this I think is the desert that we can talk about later because how do we   The Dental A Team (29:07) Fascinating. Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (29:10) measure success? How do we measure fulfillment? And when we tie it to profits and numbers and income, it's just not super healthy. And I've had to learn that. Like that's probably been one of my biggest paradigm shifts over the last year, year and a half and sparked by your presentation and the conversations that we had. So.   The Dental A Team (29:27) Well, that's fascinating to me and thank you. That's a huge compliment. ⁓ I'm fascinated by that partnership split and the fact that you both were eat what you kill. I actually love that because then you got two very motivated partners. Also, you don't accidentally get one partner who's not pulling their weight. I know a lot of times ⁓ and I think the difference that I sometimes see in GP versus specialty is sometimes I have a super producer in GP.   So one who's doing hybrid and implants and all these different cases. And then I've got another doctor who's doing bread and butter. Well, obviously the super producer is going to produce more, but you need the bread and butter dentist to be taking care of all those profie patients and all the day in day out. So you can super produce. So those ones, often will see that it's more going to be a 50 50 split, but I do oftentimes see the super producer gets a little annoyed because they're like, if they're not both givers.   ⁓ I've seen this wax hard on partnerships just in the fact of you look at the numbers and what are you putting up on the board? But I think those partners really have to look at this. It's the ultimate whole. And if the ultimate whole of the business is doing well, both parties are winning. And they have to just see that they bring different strengths to the table, just like in a marriage. And we're not looking at dollars on the board. We're looking at collective as a practice. But that is one where I do watch. And so I do think in specialty, that might be something I had not thought of.   but I love to hear how you guys broke it down, how you picked it apart. And also the fact that there was no ego on taking a patient. Cause I do sometimes see that in partnerships where, if I'm going to get what I kill, I want more of these patients. I want to take them on because that's going to impact my production. But at the end of the day, you guys are still doing well on the profit side. So fascinating to me to hear how it was set up, how you guys got into it, how the buy-in was, ⁓ and then moving forward. And I'm guessing Hunter, I don't know Nate.   Hunter Bennett (31:01) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (31:18) But I'm excited. I mean, I have a quote over here by Gandhi. So when you said that I was like, well, perfect. ⁓ But my hunch is typically in a partnership, I see someone who's like yourself, who's really big into business, like they know the numbers, they have the business acumen. And usually the other partner tends to be more of the people side or this is like, you usually have a separation. So I again, I don't know Nate, but my guess would be not to say that you're not great with team members to   but I'm guessing you're very business savvy, you're very system savvy, and he's gonna be more people savvy and relationship savvy. Again, I don't know, maybe both of you had that, but I'm curious, did you see that dynamic in your partnership that maybe blended you guys really well coming together?   Hunter Bennett (31:54) Yeah, no, that's a really good point and we do compliment it. You're pretty much spot on. would say Nate definitely like is a lot more of a calming, know, I'm kind of like people tell me I'm just fiery, you know, like we've had different.   The Dental A Team (32:07) You   I do remember you walking   up. You wouldn't even shut your light off on me. Like you were busy. You were down to business. Like, here, I need these things in the most respectful way. ⁓   Hunter Bennett (32:14) Yeah, I'm   Pretty pretty focused. Yeah, pretty focused I would say and so I would say there is that little bit of balance But Nate's not a dummy like he was harvard number two in his class at harvard like he's super smart and so He would always lean into me for the business stuff just because I had a degree and I could speak the language and accounting and depreciation and all you know, like that stuff I think sort of intimidated him more than it needed to because once you explain it, know, you know But because he hadn't trained that way like he would sort of lean into me and that stuff   The Dental A Team (32:33) or.   Right.   Hunter Bennett (32:43) But even having someone to talk about because he'd already dealt with the accountant. He already dealt with workers comp. So I'd be like, hey, how does this work? Cause I'd never done it. So he'd explain it to me. And then as a team, we would work it out. You know, as a team, we would make big decisions. So yeah, I mean, you'll both bring different things to the table. And it's actually good that you can be different. I had another opportunity to partner somewhere else before Nate. I was way too much like that guy. I was like.   The Dental A Team (32:49) Thank   Yes.   Hunter Bennett (33:10) This isn't gonna work. I knew right away like I said, you know I went and visited the practice did the whole thing sent like a follow-up email and I think we both knew it's just like yes, isn't gonna work and The negotiations didn't go very far and it was fun. It was like we're still friends and we keep in touch So I think it's important to like you think ⁓ we're so alike man That's not always like the best thing. And so our differences are actually probably what what bring us together and make us strong ⁓   The Dental A Team (33:19) Mm-hmm.   Yeah.   No.   Hunter Bennett (33:37) Yeah. And so that's, that's like a, that's a super fair point about that. And again, a lot of it's just been serendipitous. Like that just happened to fall into place. It just, it's just worked out that way, but it's, it's like a marriage. That's the perfect thing. It's like, it's like a marriage without all the benefits per se. Like you just, you're just like, you're just, you just get the hard part of them. Yeah. You just get the hard, you get the hard part of the marriage where you have tough conversations, but again, you just take them head on. And when you have no ego and, or a limited ego, and when you just want your partner to succeed, like   The Dental A Team (33:38) Yeah.   You get the profits benefit.   Hunter Bennett (34:08) You can't really fail in my opinion. ⁓ even when it came to like negotiate, like I had six months of partnership income that I was missing out on, but then there's the COVID thing. And, at the end of the day, said, Nate, like what number, like what, what, what do want me to do the whole valuation? I didn't really care. I was willing to pay whatever I didn't. To me, the relationship was way more important than any number. And so we just came to a number that we both felt good about based on the valuation, but I was flexible and frankly, I didn't care because it was so important to me. And, ⁓   The Dental A Team (34:09) That's awesome.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (34:37) And we came to what we thought both was fair and it's been, it's been a dream. you know, and those, we're like best friends and those conversations can still be a little awkward and a little hard, but they don't have to be. And they, they were always fine. You know, um, if there's a book I could recommend, talk about it all the time. It's Crucial Conversations. Um, one of my favorite books of all time. think everybody should read it before you get married. You should read it like in college. Like I think it should be required reading before you graduate college.   The Dental A Team (34:50) Right.   Hunter Bennett (35:04) But that's one book that's just helped me a ton. As a leader, business owner, as a partner, ⁓ husband, it's just helped me a ton.   The Dental A Team (35:05) Definitely agree.   I love that. I also love that you guys just, I think when you said like it just works and it was serendipitous, I think that's something to look for in a partnership. I think if anybody's looking at partners, if it's hard and it's just not flowing, don't force it to work. ⁓ The best partnerships I really do see where they kind of fall into place this way, they're aligned, you hire people that are complimentary to you, not just like you, because you do need the two halves to a whole.   Hunter Bennett (35:29) Hmm.   The Dental A Team (35:39) to make it really great. And then I think you guys have done a good job of keeping egos in check. think you guys, what you said Hunter, that I hope all partners listening to this or potential partners, you want your partner to succeed and that's your ultimate goal and that's what you're driving for. when Jason and I learned that in our marriage, where like my greatest success is Jason's success, it went from a like, what are you giving for me? And what am I getting out of this relationship to a like,   I want Jason to give me five stars because he's a raving fan because like I am, I'm doing all that I possibly can to make sure he's succeeding and his life is incredible. And when both partners are in that, it goes away from you and it goes to them and to make sure that they're succeeding. And I really do see that that works great in marriages, partnerships. So I'm obsessed with that. Kudos to you guys on that. I love that also Hunter, I hope people buying in.   the partnership and having that, I say the way you start a partnership is how you're going to end the partnership. I love Hunter that you came in as the quote unquote junior partner, but you, leveled yourself up to be an equal partner to him. And I'm really proud of you because I think a lot of associates are stay very timid. They say very junior. They act like they don't know anything rather than being like an equal partner. And I'm like, no, no, no, if you're going to be a partner in this, you need to be a partner and bring your weight. So kudos to you on that.   Hunter Bennett (36:49) Yeah.   Totally.   The Dental A Team (36:57) And then I also just really love that you guys have just had multiple conversations that you just have blended it so beautifully and that you said you were willing to pay whatever he wanted. Like, of course, you're going to be fair. You knew the numbers, but the partnership and the success was more important to you. And I think when you go into it and that's how you start your partnership, I can tell why you guys are actually really great partners. So great job and thanks for highlighting that. And now I want to know about selling to a DSO because I do agree. ⁓ Having a consultant.   oftentimes makes it where you don't have to sell to a DSO. And we do that sometimes. Sometimes I'll grow the practices for you and it's like, well, why would you sell to a DSO when they're just gonna come in and grow your business anyway? Like, let's do this on your own. I had a doctor who we were chatting and he's like, yeah, Kiera, they're gonna give me five mil for it. And I said, cool. Next year, you're probably gonna do five million on your own or within two years. So you can pay them out and they're just gonna do what you were already going to do. And agreed, a lot of that stress comes.   Hunter Bennett (37:36) Yeah.   Yeah.   The Dental A Team (37:55) from that, but Hunter, you said something in the very beginning that struck me when you said you sold to the DSO. You said your life has exponentially gotten better. Your work life balance has gotten better since selling to the DSO, but you also said that you're doing pretty much all the same things you were doing as a business owner. So I'm super curious. How did your life get better while you're still doing, like you were like, I'm still hiring, I'm still firing. And I was like, so what was the perk of selling to a DSO and helped me understand how your life got better?   Hunter Bennett (38:19) Yeah.   The Dental A Team (38:23) And then I also want to know about your cell deal too, if you're open to that.   Hunter Bennett (38:27) Yeah, for sure. don't, um, I probably should have illustrated the point that it's not like we didn't just get overwhelmed and all of sudden decide, okay, we're not, we're just going to throw up our hands and sell. Like we had hired a different office manager who was like, went through like Gary Katas's training. Like, like she was phenomenal. She was amazing. In fact, like she was a lot like you in a lot of ways, just really great personality, new dentistry. And I thought she was going to change our lives, you know, and she is awesome. Like she's an amazing person.   But it didn't end up working out. She left the practice that was being transitioned to a new doctor. So she came with us for a few weeks and it was going okay. And then they had a big crisis back there and she's like, is it okay if I just go back and help for like a week? And we're like, yeah, do what you need to do, you know? And then that doctor offered her equity in his practice. And so she ended up staying there, whatever. Yeah, whatever, it is what it is. And so my point is, like, I feel like we tried a different office manager. We tried restructuring and we tried.   The Dental A Team (39:15) I mean, good deal.   Hunter Bennett (39:25) The only thing we didn't hire a consultant, we definitely talked about it, but we didn't, I think in some ways I was probably just a weak leader in that way where I was maybe a little bit too proud to just get the help that we probably needed and instead just went a different route, you know? And so hindsight's always 20-20, but that just to create a little bit of the background to the story though. So it's not like we just, you know, all of sudden decided, you know, we're gonna,   The Dental A Team (39:47) Of course.   Hunter Bennett (39:55) just sell. So we had done all this other footwork. Sorry, what did you want to know about like the structure of the deal or what? Yeah. Okay. So when we, so when we, you know, after having done all this, we kind of, we had interviewed all these doctors, we had one kind of in the holster, maybe you can associate and we were just like, we were interviewing people, but we was just so, we were just tired. It's just like when you're doing root canal, it's like from like seven to five and you don't even have time to use like the bathroom.   The Dental A Team (40:03) I do, I do want to know structure of the deal. Yeah, tell me it.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (40:25) get a drink of water. It's just, we just burned ourselves out because we were chasing something and I don't even think we, we just wanted to change growth. Like we just wanted to, we just wanted to grow. We just always said all the time, were just grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow. And so we just kept the pedal to the metal. Excuse me. And I would say we just sort of outgrew ourselves and not that the wheels ever fell off, but like the culture in our practice was okay. Like we had good people, but we did have some of the wrong people on the bus. ⁓   The Dental A Team (40:27) Yep.   Hunter Bennett (40:52) And so when we started talking to DSOs, they saw our numbers, they saw our trajectory and we knew we had a lot of leverage. It was 2021. So the market was just red hot. We got a really good evaluation. We got a really good multiple. they were, you know, and so, you know, I actually talked to Matt Molcock, you know, he's my advisor and, ⁓ and just, I talked to my mentors, Dr. Jones, like, you know, ⁓ just people that I really respect. He's the man he had started nine, nine different endo or worked in or started nine different practices and   The Dental A Team (40:59) I see. That is hot.   Mm-hmm.   Aw, Dr. John.   Hunter Bennett (41:19) And his advice to me was like, you know, like I would do it if I were you. And so a lot of people would just had kind of encouraged me. And so at that point, me and Nate said, you know, we, and we got opinions both ways. And at the end of the day, our conclusion was it doesn't matter. Like, if I'm being honest, like that was kind of our answer to a kind of a joint prayer was like, it's not going to matter. Like it just, doesn't matter which way you go with this. ⁓ for the things that are truly important, it's not going to matter what you do.   The Dental A Team (41:35) Agreed.   Hunter Bennett (41:46) And so we, we, we decided to do the deal and I will say, like I said, the first six months were rough, but to the credit of my, company, like the group that I'm with, like our team and the people that we work with, they're phenomenal. Like I've never like had a, they, they just always bend over backward to accommodate us and help us. And we've done our part. We've grown like crazy, you know, are there times where I'm like, man, we could have done this on our own and, ⁓ our   The Dental A Team (42:06) Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (42:12) whatever, you know, and you look at your paycheck now because now I'm paid on a percentage and I have equity in the company. And so you're just waiting on a recap. And that's a whole, again, talking about, we can get into this too is DSOs have so many different types of structures. Ours is not like a joint venture. So we don't, we don't profit share in ours. It's all in our equity. so equity events are like super important for us. and so Scotty Hudson Smith is our CEO and he's the one that did smile docs. they, he's done it three times.   The Dental A Team (42:21) Yep.   They are.   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (42:41) He came to our dinner like the night that they were recruiting us and he wasn't officially the CEO yet But like he was sliding in that role. It just hadn't been announced I think it was like the next week or something, but he came and he just sort of created the vision for us and we just honestly we a little bit of a feeling and sort of that answer like it's not gonna matter and Now looking back Are there days that are where I have resented like seeing what I produce versus what I take home sometimes?   But I've got to remember they give you five or six years of your profitability upfront. And I've been able to put all that to work, you know, for the most part, I've done pretty well with that. Like not like home run, like you, you know, it's not like crazy stuff, but it's fine. I'm diversified now. Um, it's not all in my practice, but I do have a bit still in equity quite a bit. we did a 70 30 split. did 70 % cash, 30 % equity in the group. Um, and I just,   The Dental A Team (43:09) Sure.   Sure.   Right.   Nice.   Hunter Bennett (43:36) Some groups will give you flexibility, some won't. That's just the number that we wanted and they agreed to. And looking back, I'm still glad I did it that way. I actually had an opportunity to buy more equity about a year in, which I did. And so I bought more. And so that allowed me to just be a little bit more leveraged into the company.   on a bigger scale, like me and Nate work real hard for each other, but now you just got all these partners that are counting on you. And I think the mojo and the culture in our group is quite good. So.   The Dental A Team (44:04) Yeah, that's it. That's actually really, really good to know because I think so many people wonder about DSOs. And so what did the DSO take off of you guys? Because I know there's some people that get scared of the equity. Like they get scared of equity because some DSOs have actually gone under. And so I actually love to hear that you were a 70-30 split, then you were able to buy in more if you wanted to, because if it goes under, that is your retirement. And so I love that you were able to put money into work so your retirement's not solely like   Hunter Bennett (44:12) Yeah, that's what you asked.   ⁓ Yeah.   The Dental A Team (44:31) vested into this company. I really am big on that when DSOs do purchase, but what did they take off your guys's plates going in as a DSO?   Hunter Bennett (44:31) Totally.   Yeah, sorry, that's what you asked me and I kind of got off track there, but...   The Dental A Team (44:40) That's okay. I wanted   the deal. I wanted the deal. I actually wanted to know that a lot.   Hunter Bennett (44:44) So we skipped to the deal,   but going back, like the thing that they've helped with the most, would say is like, just as an example, like, like, ⁓ there's like this employment tax, you know, that we'd always get these letters about every year with Florida and we'd call them and then I spent an hour on the phone, finally getting to someone. And then I had already canceled it, but then they automatically renewed it for it. And so it's just like, that's like one example, work, workman's comp. ⁓ even just like we had an office book for like policy.   And again, this might speak more to maybe my lack of strong leadership where when a team member says, well, I understand that's the policy, but this is what I have going on. And then when you bend the rules for one person, then it sort of just creates this culture of favoritism. And again, that was probably partly being a new owner and then a people pleaser. and something I've worked on a lot. And again, I'm not the same leader I was even five years ago, you know, four years ago when we sold, but, ⁓ having seen that now they, because there are just   The Dental A Team (45:34) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (45:40) company policies in place. And again, it might be a little maybe feel corporate, but now you sort of see the reason why things are corporate because otherwise people, if you run it like a small business and you do those little things here or there, all it does is create resentment within your team. And so ⁓ I will say just having a really, we've gone through like, man, we hired like two or three different office managers through the company that they helped us hire. And finally we hired internally and she's   The Dental A Team (45:53) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (46:09) man, she's phenomenal. she has just totally, she was at our front desk, she wasn't in dentistry, she came to the front desk and really for first couple of years she was pretty quiet. And then when we interviewed, we're like, we need to interview, are you interested? And she said, yeah, like I would. And she's absolutely just crushing it. And so she is a big reason because we finally, you know, like it's just a good fit for her, you know? And our old office manager is still with us and she's amazing, she's amazing. And she's just so humbly taking the role. She's she's like,   The Dental A Team (46:10) Amazing.   Yeah.   Hunter Bennett (46:37) just want to be in the front and she's the best front office person in the world. You know what I mean? And that's she didn't want to be an office manager and so it's kind of worked itself out and but I don't know if we would have made those decisions without being sort of forced into it with it with our structure in the corporate, you know in the corporate group. If I'm being honest, you know, there's a couple things like we were salary like we just paid our girls salary for example and so there was always sort of this resentment because here it's very seasonal.   The Dental A Team (46:39) Mm-hmm. Yeah.   Totally.   Yeah.   Mm-hmm.   Hunter Bennett (47:06) So during winter, like our population in Naples doubles. And so the girls are working more hours. So they might work 42. I don't know if I should say this is, I guess it doesn't matter because I don't do it anymore, but they might work 42 or 44 hours one week. But in the summer, they're probably working 32, 34, 36. Or I'd just say, go home or whatever. So over the year, it just worked out. so they came to us, like, you can't do that. And so was like, so then we had to switch to hourly, which I really resented in that first six months. I was so mad. But now looking at it, it's actually the   The Dental A Team (47:06) Right.   Right.   You   Hunter Bennett (47:35) It's actually the fair way to do it. You know, it actually makes sense. ⁓ they like our, always get.   The Dental A Team (47:38) It is. So it sounds like you just got a lot of like,   you got like a lot of company backing is what I feel like it is like the structure of a business. Yeah. Yep.   Hunter Bennett (47:44) Totally, it's just more structure, more structure. I didn't have to be the bad guy, I guess. I sort   of get to say that's just how we do it. And so again, I think now, like the older version of Hunter sees that as, well, man, were kind of, you could have been a stronger leader, but I didn't know what I didn't know. ⁓ But now again, too, like looking at it, like this is exactly the path that I'm supposed to be on and it's fine. And truly like...   The Dental A Team (48:01) Totally.   Hunter Bennett (48:11) There's so many reasons to join a DSO. Some people are looking for an exit. Some people are looking for a lifestyle. And for me, it's just worked out that I, don't know what I was looking for besides relief from all the pressure I felt and, um, and it's worked out, you know? And so I still make enough money that I can do the things that I need to do and want to do. And if the equity works out, that's a cherry on top. And if it doesn't like it's okay for right now. And if I want to do something later,   I can do something else, you know, and that's the other thing too, like with, with the DSO is if, if you want to leave at some point you can. And I don't really have plans to leave per se, but like I, now it's an option. Whereas if I own the practice, that was one reason too, with me and Nate, who part of our thought process was, well, we're from the West in 10 years. If we want to sell in 10 years, who's going to buy us? Are we going to wait 10 years? Why don't we just do it now and grow with the DSO? So that was a big part of it too, is like, what is our exit? And so even though I'm only, I'm not, I'm 40 next year.   The Dental A Team (48:38) can.   Totally.   Hunter Bennett (49:08) I still was sort of planning an exit at some point because the practice was so big and we couldn't find a partner. So maybe that gives some insights retrospectively into our thought process because we did the same conversation every day for six months. But looking at it now, like that's what they've taken off our plate is all those little nuances that are just so mentally exhausting that now when I come home, I can just be present with my kids. I've changed my schedule. Like it's totally benefited my life.   The Dental A Team (49:14) Totally.   Hahaha!   Hunter Bennett (49:38) Lifestyle wise but it's not perfect but I would say an overall net positive, you know If you're not just looking at money, you know If you're not just looking at your month to month income I would say that's like the only downside is I don't make as much money as I used to but my lifestyle is way better so   The Dental A Team (49:43) That's amazing. Sure.   And so we traded a few things, but who knows it can pan out as well to where you actually make more in the future. That's not a given, but like today you're at least in a good space. You've traded ⁓ like money for time. And I think that that's one of the most beautiful things, which ties to, as we like quickly wrap up. I love that you just talked about all the pieces of DSO. I love that you have a great experience. I love hearing the pieces that they were able to take and agreed a lot of businesses actually need to sell to a DSO because they've grown too big that there's not a buyer for them. And like that is   Hunter Bennett (49:57) Yeah. Good.   Yeah.   The

In this episode of The Thriving Dentist Show, host Gary Takacs talks with Ian McNickle, CEO of Icon Dental Partners, about the shift from DSOs to Dental Partnership Organizations (DPOs) and how they're reshaping dentistry. Discover how true clinical autonomy, stronger ownership opportunities, and smart staffing solutions help dentists reduce insurance dependence and build lasting profitability. Whether you're planning a transition, scaling your practice, or seeking financial freedom, this episode is packed with proven strategies to support your career and lifestyle goals.