Human Current

This is Human Current’s final episode. Angie and Haley share exciting news about the release of their new book, Our Human Current, which includes quotes, stories and insights from all Human Current episodes. They also share how grateful they feel toward their mentor Doug, their podcast guests and listeners, and everyone else who has supported their work over the past four years. For this final episode, they also share Haley’s interview with Phil Lawson, an inventor, author and systems thinker. Lawson describes his journey in seeing the world as holistic rather than mechanistic. He also shares how his SPHERIT system, which leverages AI, helps people navigate complex situations and achieve holistic growth.        

We talked with writer, researcher, and coach, Jennifer Garvey Berger, about her passion for spreading ideas about complexity, leadership, adult development, and change “so they can do the good that the world needs them to do”. She explained that “there are ideas about the world that are unbearably useful, and yet they are often locked up away from the people who could best use them.” Berger’s work and research are driven by her desire to get ideas about complexity out into the world. She expressed to us that there is joy and beauty in complexity describing it as “a fundamental energy in the world” that we should try to understand the rules and learn to play inside them, rather than try to contain and control complexity. Later in our conversation, Berger shared insights from her new book Unlocking Leadership Mindtraps: How to Thrive in Complexity, including the five mindtraps she believes are holding us back. These are: the desire for simple stories, our sense that we are right, our desire to get along with others in our group, our fixation with control, and our constant quest to protect and defend our egos. After describing why these natural impulses are hindering us, she stated, “if we can get a handle on some of these mindtraps, that redeploys our energy and lets us work with the system instead of continually fighting against it.” To learn about more about Jennifer visit:  https://www.cultivatingleadership.co.nz/our-team/jennifer-garvey-berger

In this episode, we talked with professor, systems thinker, and aging researcher, Alan Cohen. Cohen described how controlled experiments continue to dominate the way biologist learn and think, he suggested “this paradigm of complex systems thinking is what can guide us to understand when those controlled experiments are formative or not. The more complex the system the more a lot of factors might be interacting and the more we have to doubt how generalizable our experimental results will be.” During our conversation, Cohen also shared some of the complex questions he is researching in his lab like, “can we integrate biomarkers (Cholesterol, Albumin, Hemoglobin, Glucose) together to get a good idea of what’s happening with the aging process? And what happens if, instead of looking at them [biomarkers] one at a time, we try to integrate their signal and look at what might be happening in terms of underlying processes?” He explained that people who have “high dis-regulation levels” are at greater risk of health complications and that his research on holistic physiology is uncovering fundamental processes in the biology of aging.  

In this episode, Angie talked with Francesco Filia, CEO of Fasanara Capital, an unconventional, boutique asset management company which focuses on niche investment strategies and researches systemic risk. Filia shared his perspective on the way financial markets are conventionally analyzed saying, “analysis that is typically performed on financial markets, in my opinion, is quite outdated. It has not evolved and could learn so much from nearby fields such as complexity theory.” He described financial markets as ecosystems and continued to bring many different insights from complexity into the conversation, including how feedback loops in financial markets can create instability and lead to tipping points.

In this episode, Haley talks with whole systems design practitioner, educator, public speaker, regenerative development consultant, and author, Dr. Daniel Wahl. Wahl shares stories from his journey in learning about complexity science, holistic science, and whole systems health, and how this journey ultimately inspired him to study natural design. During his interview Wahl says, “for me design is human intention expressed through interactions and relationships. It touches almost everything.” He also expresses his love for biomimicry and talks about the importance of learning from Gaia.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with whole systems design practitioner, educator, public speaker, regenerative development consultant, and author, Dr. Daniel Wahl. Wahl shares some very important insights about the hidden dangers of paradigm shifting. He also talks about Donella Meadows' later work around dancing with systems.

In this episode, Angie talks with human-centric leader, futurist, and CEO of Toffler Associates, Deborah Westphal. Westphal shares the history and legacy of Toffler Associates and provides insights into their mission to help organizations understand the dynamics of change, plan their way to the future, and adapt. She explains four macro-drivers that are causing uncommon disruption and influencing everything we know about organizations. Westphal also explores very important questions and assumptions about power structures, technology, and societal values and advocates for leaders to focus on people, rather than processes or technology. Help support Human Current by becoming a Patron of the show!

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Deborah Westphal, a human-centric leader, futurist and the CEO of Toffler Associates. Westphal talks about the importance of reorganizing business for the future so there is less emphasis on processes and technology and more emphasis on people and the values and questions they bring into the workplace. 

In this episode, Haley talks with Dr. Mihaela Ulieru, a scholar of distributed intelligent systems, Founder and President of the IMPACT Institute for the Digital Economy, and Chief Alchemist at Endor. Ulieru talks about the interplay between society and technology and its effects on our humanity. She shares many paradoxical examples for how technology, like artificial intelligence and blockchain, can help us transcend our limitations while also preying on them. Ulieru also urges leaders to educate themselves on the ways blockchain can streamline their business, stating it’s now “a matter of survival”.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Dr. Mihaela Ulieru, a scholar of distributed intelligent systems. Ulieru is also Founder and President of the IMPACT Institute for the Digital Economy and Chief Alchemist at Endor. In this clip, Ulieru talks about how leaders can identify whether or not their business is "blockchainable" and shares examples for how blockchain technology has been successfully leveraged within different industries.  

In this episode, Angie talks with Biophysical Scientist and author of Crashes, Crises, and Calamities, Dr. Len Fisher. Fisher gives many in-depth examples for how sudden change, or critical transitions, can happen within complex adaptive systems. He unpacks how interconnectedness, unintended consequences, runaway effects, and emergence all influence systemic collapse. Fisher also shares what is needed to effectively govern of complex systems.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Biophysical Scientist, writer and broadcaster, Dr. Len Fisher. Fisher introduces the concept of systemic risk and critical transitions in complex adaptive systems.

In this episode, Haley talks with systems thinker, entrepreneur and pragmatic implementer, Tanuja Prasad. Prasad shares details about her relationship with complexity, including how it has shifted her perspective about life, work and science. She beautifully describes the complex, nonlinear nature of systems and explains many practical concepts and applications for people working with and living within systems. Prasad also shares her passion for complexity science applications within the social impact sector.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with systems thinker, entrepreneur, and pragmatic implementer, Tanuja Prasad. Prasad shares some of her favorite aspects of complexity science.

In this episode, Angie talks with author and Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Complexity Space Consulting, Denise Easton. Easton talks about how she became introduced to complexity science and how it has influenced her life and her work. She shares the story behind her book, Complexity Works!: Influencing Pattern-Based Change in Teams & Organizations, which she co-authored with Lawrence Solow and explains how Complexity Space Consulting leverages a pattern-based approach to understanding and influencing organizational change. Easton also shares her hopes for the future of complexity science.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Complexity Space Consulting, Denise Easton. Easton shares how she defines and relates to complexity.

In this episode, Angie talks with systems educator and award-winning author, Linda Booth Sweeney. Booth Sweeney describes her work as a systems educator and explains why understanding systems is so important. She shares many wonderful examples and stories of patterns (and feedback loops) that show up in everyday life and explains how seeing a pattern is the very first step toward influencing change. Booth Sweeney also talks about her books and why storytelling is such an instrumental tool in her work.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with systems educator and author, Linda Booth Sweeney. Booth Sweeney shares the importance of learning about the nature of systems and working with them, not against them. "People who have a concept of the whole can do very fortunate things." — Linda Booth Sweeney

In this episode, Haley talks with Albert-László Barabási. Barabasi is the Robert Gray Dodge Professor of Network Science and a Distinguished University Professor at Northeastern University, where he directs the Center for Complex Network Research. He is also a renowned author of several books including his newly released book, The Formula: The Universal Laws of Success, which he discusses in-depth during his interview. Barabási shares key takeaways and important lessons from his new book and research on the science of success. He also gives us insights from his journey of learning about and pioneering the young field of network science and shares his hopes for the future of this field.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Albert-László Barabási. Barabási is the Robert Gray Dodge Professor of Network Science and a Distinguished University Professor at Northeastern University, where he directs the Center for Complex Network Research. He is also a renowned author of several books including: Network Science; Linked: The New Science of Networks; Bursts: The Hidden Pattern Behind Everything We Do; The Formula: The Universal Laws of Success. In this brief clip, Barabási describes the fruitful relationship between complexity science and network science.

In this episode, Haley talks with Yaneer Bar-Yam, President of the New England Complex Systems Institute, and Alexander Siegenfeld, a PhD physics student at MIT, about their collaborative research paper entitled: Negative Representation and Instability in Democratic Elections. They each discuss why the current political climate in the U.S. is so polarized and unstable and explore how low voter turnout leads to negative representation and further instability. Describing insights from their research, they share the importance of increasing voter turnout and weakening the two party system (through methods like ranked choice voting) in order to achieve a more stable democracy.

In this episode, Angie and Haley share their final four interviews recorded at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. These interviews include: Brad Glisson, co-founder of Thoughtblox; Liz Johnson, Managing Editor for the Journal on Policy and Complex Systems; Vinesh Raja, Bioinformatician and Software Engineer; Rhys Lindmark, podcaster and Head of Community and Long-Term Societal Impact at MIT Media Lab. Each of their stories weave together some of the shared values, ideas, and visions for the growing field of complex system science. And to wrap up this series on the conference, Haley and Rhys Lindmark talk about some their favorite highlights and share some key takeaways. (Episode cover image by JK Rofling.)

In this episode, Angie talks with Dr. Stephan Harding who is an ecologist, author and senior lecturer and founding member of Schumacher College. Dr. Harding discusses his passion for the Earth and why he believes so deeply in helping others feel more connected to our planet. He describes his role with Schumacher College and how the school offers unique learning experiences to help students connect with and learn from nature. Dr. Harding shares details about his Holistic Science course, which integrates complexity theory, Gaia theory and deep ecology. He also explores how more expansive approaches to science, which integrate diverse methods of inquiry (beyond reason), can help us better understand the implications of complex problems like climate change. Lastly, Dr. Harding talks about his book, Animate Earth: Science, Intuition and Gaia, in which he integrates science, poetry and meditative practices to inspire people to form a participatory relationship with nature.

In this episode, Angie and Haley share four interviews recorded at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. These interviews include: Javier Borondo, Research Scientist and CTO of AGrowingData; Rosa Benito, Physics Professor at the Universidad Politécnica de Madrid; Victor Dossetti, Research Scientist and Professor at Benemerita Universidad Autonoma de Puebla; Roozbeh Daneshvar, Blockchain Software Engineer at IBM. Each of the experiences they share highlight various research, applications, and opportunities in the field of complex system science. (Episode cover image by JK Rofling)

In this episode, Haley interviews theoretical biologist and author, Josh Mitteldorf, at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Mitteldorf talks about the evolutionary process, including gene sharing, cooperation, and natural selection. He also shares what inspired his book, Cracking the Aging Code, and why biology needs holism.

In this episode, Angie talks with Dr. Loren Demerath at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Dr. Demerath is an author, researcher, theorist of social complexity, and Professor of Sociology at the Centenary College of Louisiana. He discusses the fundamental nature of complex systems and how he applies concepts of complexity science to his research on culture, social interaction, and the emergence of order.

In this episode, Haley talks with Simon DeDeo at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. DeDeo is an Assistant Professor in Social and Decision Sciences at Carnegie Mellon University and External Professor at the Santa Fe Institute. He talks about his current research, which explores extreme creative people and events throughout history in order to learn where new ideas come from and what people do when they get them. Describing his research as “an alternate account of what it means to be human”, DeDeo explains that we are not infinitely predictable creatures, rather we harness extreme capacity to evolve and create. Professor DeDeo also shares more about his course and research at the Santa Fe Institute.

In this episode, Angie talks with network science researchers, Brennan Klein and Sarah Shugars, at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Both Klein and Shugars are network science PhD students at Northeastern University, but they share very different stories for why they decided to study network science and how they plan to approach and apply their research. (The image used in this episode cover is ©JK Rofling)

In this episode, Haley interviews Jose Mateos at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Mateos is a physicist and network researcher at the National University of Mexico. He is also on the Steering Committee for the Complex Systems Society, an international scientific community which organizes the annual Conference on Complex Systems (taking place this year from September 23-28 in Thessaloniki, Greece). Mateos talks with Haley about what makes conferences on complex systems so unique and important for solving real-world problems. He also describes his research on mobility within networks where he explores how things, like viruses and rumors, propagate within social networks.

In this episode, Angie talks with Irene Bosch and Elena Naumova at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Irene Bosch is a research scientist at MIT who works with Tropical diseases and viruses like Zika, Dengue, and Chikungunya. Bosch discusses the lack of research and understanding around how diseases are diagnosed and spread. She also talks about the potential benefits of interdisciplinary collaborations in forecasting epidemics and bringing solutions for diagnostics. Bosch’s work colleague, Elena Naumova, a Mathematician and Director of the Tufts University Initiative for Forecasting and Modeling of Infectious Diseases, also talks with Angie about how she applies mathematical models to better understand different kinds of biological phenomenon.

In this episode, Haley talks with Dr. Daniel Stickler at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Dr. Stickler is a physician, author, speaker and the Co-Founder and Chief Medical Officer of The Apeiron Center for Human Potential. During his interview, Dr. Stickler explains Apeiron’s systems-based model which focuses on human systems, homeostatic balance and optimization. He also discusses how and why lifestyle decisions are the key to creating an optimized life.

In this episode, Haley talks with Gad Saad at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Gad Saad is a Marketing Professor and evolutionary behavioral scientist. He is also author of The Consuming Instinct: What Juicy Burgers, Ferraris, Pornography, and Gift Giving Reveal About Human Nature, which explores how evolutionary forces influence our daily lives as consumers. During his interview, Saad shares how elements of complexity theory apply to his research as a behavioral scientist. He also describes the challenges he faces when talking about evolutionary theory and behavioral science openly with the public.

In this episode, Haley and Angie introduce a special conversation between Gad Saad and Nassim Nicholas Taleb at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems (ICCS). Gad Saad is an evolutionary behavioral scientist and Marketing professor at Concordia University and Nassim Nicholas Taleb is a best-selling author, probability researcher and former trader. During their quick and informal conversation, Gad and Nassim share details from their joint presentation at ICCS and some friendly remarks about each other’s research.    

In this episode, Haley interviews Stephen Wolfram at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica, Wolfram|Alpha and the Wolfram Language; the author of A New Kind of Science; and the founder and CEO of Wolfram Research. Wolfram talks with Haley about his professional journey and reflects on almost four decades of history, from his first introduction to the field of complexity science to the 30 year anniversary of Mathematica. He shares his hopes for the evolution of complexity science as a foundational field of study. He also gives advice for complexity researchers, recommending they focus on asking simple, foundational questions.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Stephen Wolfram. Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica, Wolfram|Alpha and the Wolfram Language; the author of A New Kind of Science; and the founder and CEO of Wolfram Research. Wolfram shares with us his disappointment that the basic science of complexity has not been more explored. He states, “the great thing about the basic science is that it will survive forever”.  

It’s the 100th episode of the Human Current podcast! In this celebratory episode, Angie and Haley make a cheers to all the wonderful people who have supported the podcast’s mission, including cofounder Stacy Hale, Professor Yaneer Bar-Yam and community members of the New England Complex Systems Institute (NECSI). They also reminisce about their experience at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems (ICCS) and share two interviews from the event. The first interview they share is with Dr. Emma Towlson who is a Physics Professor at Northeastern University and a researcher in the Center for Complex Network Research (CCNR), with interests in the emerging field of Network Neuroscience. The second interview is with Richard Cooper, Ph.D, who is a NECSI board member and Maurits C. Boas Professor of International Economics at Harvard University.

In this episode, Haley interviews George Church, who is Professor of Genetics at Harvard Medical School and Professor of Health Science and Technology at MIT, as well as a co-author of 480 papers, 130 patent publications & the book Regenesis. Church talks with Haley at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about his presentation on the evolution of modern biotechnology and the implications of existential risk within this field. He also talks about the goals and mission of the BRAIN Initiative, which he co-initiated in 2011, as well as why he believes people should have access to their own genome.

In this episode, Haley interviews Boston College Professor Patrick McQuillan. McQuillan talks with Haley at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about his current work and expertise in education reform and urban school leadership. He shares why it is so important for school leaders to decentralize control and work toward a unified school culture. Professor McQuillan also describes “the thread of adaptive leadership” as a productive approach to systemic change.

In this episode, Haley interviews Natalia Komarova, Chancellor's Professor of the School of Physical Sciences at the University of California, Irvine. Komarova talks with Haley at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about her presentation, which explored using applied mathematics to study the spread of mutants, as well as the evolution of popular music.

In this episode, Haley interviews the Minos A. Zombanakis Professor of the International Financial System at Harvard Kennedy School, Carmen Reinhart. Reinhart talks with Haley at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about financial fragility and economic booms and busts. She also explains the profound complexity of financial crises describing them as black swan events which affect many systems connected to human wellbeing.

In this episode, Angie interviews the Head of Strategy at Basecamp, Ryan Singer. Singer talks with Angie at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about design strategy, nonlinear dynamics, interdisciplinary work, and his personal journey of discovering complexity science and NECSI.

In this episode, Haley interviews author, mental health counselor, change agent, and Founding Director of the Freedom of Mind Resource Center, Steven Hassan. Hassan talks with Haley at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems about cults and mind control as “a systematic social influence process”. He also describes how a complex systems model can be used to mobilize social networks like policy makers, educators, health professionals, and law enforcement to empower individuals impacted by undue influence.

In this episode, Haley interviews Ricardo Hausmann at the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Hausmann is Professor of Economic Development at Harvard's Kennedy School and Director of the Center for International Development at Harvard University. He talks with Haley about the scale of the current economic collapse in Venezuela, economic complexity, systemic resilience, and the invisible hand.   

In this episode, Haley talks with the President of the New England Complex Systems Institute, Professor Yaneer Bar-Yam, at the opening day of the Ninth International Conference on Complex Systems. Bar-Yam talks about the diversity of people presenting and attending the conference and why the event is so important for the complexity science community and the world.

In this episode, Haley interviews author, filmmaker and founder of Local Futures, Helena Norberg-Hodge. Helena is a pioneer of the ‘new economy’ movement and has been promoting an economics of personal, social and ecological well-being for more than thirty years. During her interview, she discusses the harmful consequences of economic globalization and advocates for localism as a systemic path to return us ‘to the reality of complexity, diversity and interdependence of all life.’ Helena also shares the importance of spreading systemic and economic literacy, which is a mission she works toward at Local Futures.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with author, filmmaker, and founder of Local Futures, Helena Norberg-Hodge. Norberg-Hodge describes how our dependence on large global systems limits our freedom. She explains that face-to-face connection between people in community is not only important, but also relevant to systems thinking and complexity.

In this episode, Angie interviews best-selling author, speaker, teacher and formal leader, Margaret Wheatley. Wheatley talks in detail about her new book, Who Do We Choose To Be? Facing Reality | Claiming Leadership | Restoring Sanity, and reveals why she is so driven by her “unshakable conviction that leaders must learn how to evoke people’s inherent generosity, creativity, and need for community”. She also describes how leaders can experiment with complexity theory and systems thinking to better understand the role of interconnectedness and emergence in their work. Wheatley offers a powerful and thought-provoking message for courageous leaders of this time, calling on them to become “warriors for the human spirit”.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Margaret Wheatley. Wheatley is a speaker, author, teacher, consultant, advisor & formal leader—she has developed an unshakeable confidence that leaders must invoke people’s inherent generosity, creativity and need for community. In this clip she talks about emergence, which she describes as 'the most overarching, most profound learning [she] ever got from complexity science'. 

In this episode, Haley talks with the founder of Complexity Labs, Joss Colchester. Joss explains why he created Complexity Labs, which is the most extensive online resource on complex systems, as well as what he hopes to achieve with his platform. He describes one of his courses, “Blockchain Introduction”, and shares how this complex, emerging technology will influence society and economy. Joss also discusses artificial intelligence and the immense challenges and opportunities it presents. 

In this episode, Haley interviews research professor and leader of the Self-Organizing Systems Lab at UNAM, Carlos Gershenson. Gershenson discusses some findings from his book, Complexity 5 Questions, which is comprised of "interview style contributions by leading figures in the field of complexity.” He also shares his own perspectives on the past, present and future of complexity science, as well as how philosophy plays a role in the emergence of this field.

In this episode preview, we share a clip from our interview with Carlos Gershenson. Gershenson is a tenured research professor at Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México. He is also Editor-in-Chief of Complexity Digest as well as Council Member of the Complex Systems Society. We asked Gershenson, do you believe there is a stand alone science of complexity?