Podcasts about participatory

In this episode of the Harvest Series, Rose Claverie speaks with Michael Pollan about consciousness, imagination, plants, and the future of human attention. Recorded during Harvest, the conversation moves from food and psychedelics to technology, spirituality, and the hidden ways modern life shapes awareness.Pollan reflects on ego dissolution, immersive journalism, plant intelligence, and why he believes consciousness itself is under threat from social media and AI. A thoughtful exploration of what it means to remain awake, present, and emotionally connected in the modern world.You can follow us on Instagram at @HarvestSeries or @rose.claverie for updates.To know more about Michael Pollan and A World AppearsChapters00:00 – Introduction to Michael Pollan00:57 – What imagination really is01:54 – Imagination, empathy, and theory of mind02:22 – Shaka Senghor and imagination as liberation03:17 – From gardening to consciousness04:09 – Plants, desire, and co-evolution05:26 – Defining consciousness06:11 – What it's like to be a bat07:03 – Plant awareness and sentience09:02 – Consciousness and spirituality09:40 – Immersive journalism and owning a cow11:58 – Participatory journalism13:28 – Psychedelics and fear of death14:20 – First psychedelic experiences later in life14:55 – Psychedelics and emotional openness15:41 – Ego dissolution explained17:16 – Spirituality and merging beyond the self18:02 – Bach, music, and transcendence19:06 – Social media, AI, and consciousness20:33 – Consciousness hygiene22:00 – Are animals more conscious than us?22:31 – What's next: the microbiome23:53 – Teachers and people who shaped his life25:09 – Rapid fire questions26:18 – Funniest psychedelic moment28:08 – Frightening psychedelic experiences29:18 – Safe first steps into psychedelics31:01 – Legacy and changing minds32:19 – Why endings matter35:06 – Can plants teach us health?36:00 – A question for Shaka Senghor37:09 – Closing reflectionsWatch our podcast episodes and speaker sessions on YouTube: Harvest Series.Credits:Sound editing by: @lesbellesfrequencesTechnician in Kaplankaya: Joel MoriasiMusic by: ChambordThis season of the Harvest Series podcast is made possible by Spark of Light. To learn more, visit: https://sparkofsouls.com/Harvest Series Founders: Burak Öymen and Roman Carel

Can transcendence still make philosophical sense after modernity? John Vervaeke speaks with philosopher William Desmond about Platonism as a living tradition, the meaning of strong transcendence, and Desmond's philosophy of the metaxu: the between. The conversation builds from John's proposal that relevance realization and transjectivity are philosophically grounded in Desmond's ontological account of the between. John begins by distinguishing modern psychological accounts of transcendence from the ancient and Platonic sense of strong transcendence. In this stronger sense, transcendence is not merely a better state of mind. It discloses truths that are otherwise unavailable and changes the knower's relation to reality. That claim challenges modern assumptions about flat ontology, the buffered self, representational cognition, and the fact-value split. Desmond responds through Plato. He presents Plato not as a dry theorist of two worlds, but as a philosophical artist of the between: a thinker of mimesis, eros, mania, dialogue, singularity, and participatory transformation. Plato's dialogues are not ornamental containers for arguments; their drama, characters, and dialogical movement are part of the philosophy itself. The later conversation opens into deep memory, imagination, eternity, possibility, God, Daoism, intercultural philosophy, pilgrimage, and the life-world. Desmond and Vervaeke converge on the need to move beyond the view from nowhere and return philosophy to transformative practice, embodied dwelling, and a richer contact with the sources of intelligibility. Key Insights Strong transcendence has epistemological and ontological significance, not only psychological benefit. The metaxu, or between, names a porous relation before, beneath, between, and beyond modern dichotomies. Modernity's fact-value split risks producing default atheism or default nihilism. Participatory knowing offers an alternative to treating cognition as internal representation of an external world. Plato's dialogical form is integral to his philosophy; the drama cannot simply be stripped away to extract arguments. Mimesis involves relation between image and original without collapsing their difference. Eros and mania point to two directions of transcendence: from below upward and from above downward. Deep memory is a source of imagination and ontological depth, not merely storage of past facts. Possibility should not be reduced to logical possibility; living possibility points toward enabling power. Pilgrimage and theoria are linked: philosophical transformation requires being on the way, not merely observing from nowhere. Timestamps 00:00 Welcome and setup 01:00 Relevance realization and the philosophy of the between 02:00 Platonism as living tradition 02:40 The need for strong transcendence 03:50 Transcendence after modernity 04:40 William Desmond introduces his work 05:00 Between system and poetics 06:00 The Western tradition as conversation partner 08:00 John's paper on strong transcendence 09:20 Psychological transcendence in modern thought 10:00 Truths disclosed through transcendence 11:00 Flat ontology and layered reality 12:30 The buffered self 14:00 Fact-value dichotomy and default atheism 15:10 Contact epistemology and participatory relation 17:20 Being realized as you realize 18:20 Anagoge and the cave 18:40 Interior, exterior, and superior transcendence 20:10 Autonomy, heteronomy, theonomy, and theosis 21:30 Desmond responds 22:00 Plato's philosophical art and the Sophist 22:30 Art, origins, and otherness 23:40 Originality, creativity, and modern art 25:20 Mimesis and the difference between image and original 28:20 Plato as thinker of the metaxu 29:00 Eros and self-transcendence 30:00 Mania and divine inspiration 31:30 Inspiration as transmission 33:20 Metaxology and Hegel 34:40 The Sophist and participatory knowing 36:40 The who of the sophist 38:10 Periagoge and the turning of the soul 39:40 Philosophy as a way of life 40:30 Exiting modernity's frame 43:20 The dialogue form is not ornamental 45:30 Socrates as an image of courage 46:20 Dialogos and method 48:00 Diaphanous logos 49:00 Singular incarnation and witness 51:10 Theoria as contemplation and pilgrimage 52:00 John's dialectic-in-dialogos practice 53:20 Anamnesis in practice 54:20 The logos beyond the participants 55:20 Deep memory and imagination 57:00 Muses, memory, and hidden springs 58:20 AI and outsourced memory 59:00 Memory as ontological depth 01:00:30 Eternity and the other to time 01:02:40 Inward otherness and ultimate otherness 01:04:50 Plato's sun and enabling light 01:06:20 Porosity and the buffered self 01:07:00 Living possibility 01:09:00 Possibility, transcendence, and God 01:10:40 What makes intelligibility intelligible? 01:11:40 Eastern and Western approaches to possibility 01:13:30 Coming to be and becoming 01:15:40 Nicholas of Cusa 01:17:00 Wu wei and giving way 01:18:20 Daoist practice and Socratic midwifery 01:20:20 Philosophical Silk Road 01:22:10 The intimate universal 01:23:20 Against philosophical tourism 01:25:30 Elemental porosity 01:26:00 Pilgrimage and practice 01:27:40 Being underway 01:29:30 Theoria as metanoetic passage 01:30:10 Symphonic language 01:34:00 The life-world 01:35:40 Rejecting the view from nowhere 01:36:20 Closing Resources William Desmond, Being and the Between William Desmond, Ethics and the Between William Desmond, God and the Between William Desmond, Art, Origins, Otherness: Between Philosophy and Art Plato, Symposium, Ion, Sophist, Republic, and Laches Plotinus and Proclus Hegel Charles Taylor Catherine Pickstock, Aspects of Truth Paul Tillich Thomas Aquinas Nicholas of Cusa Pierre Hadot Henry Corbin Frank, Gleiser, and Thompson, The Blind Spot Follow John Vervaeke: Website: https://johnvervaeke.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke/videos X: https://x.com/DrJohnVervaeke Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

Jeffrey Winters, professor of political science at Northwestern University and the director of the Equality Development and Globalization Studies Program at Northwestern's Buffett Institute for Global Affairs and the author of The Blind Spot: How Oligarchs Dominate Our Democracies (Scribner, 2026), talks about the history of oligarchy, how to fight it, and why it maintains power in a democracy. Photo: Cover art for The Blind Spot. (Credit: Simon & Schuster) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We discuss a precious time capsule we have here in North Carolina — our state archives. We'll speak with the state archivist about what it takes to maintain history and how someone can find pieces of themselves reflected in archives. We also find out what you won't discover in the state's archives, and why that is.

Antropodi-podcasts guest this week is a PhD researcher Reneta Lisowski, who combined her passion of making reaction videos and researching cultures in her doctoral research, where she takes a participatory position in online fan-culture producing UMK-reaction videos to her own Youtube-channel. Renata Lisowski is conducting her research at the University of Jyväskylä, in the Department of Music, Art and Culture studies. Reaction videos are a niche of media-culture, where the content producer aims in immersing themselves in to a new experience, recording it and sharing it to the audience. The goal is to share first thoughts and display feelings that are authentic and emerging in time of the video recording. There is no script for reaction videos, and they function as a commentary on the media material the producer reacts to. These videos appeal to a specific kind of internet audience, and they can even be considered as a counterculture for highly stylized, preplanned and polished social media content dominating the field, as they offer something real – such as emotions – to relate to.In her research Lisowski is using autoethnographic method, where a researcher connects their own experiences to a wider cultural context, The method allows the researcher to be an active participant in the study of their topic. Lisowski is collecting data of her own experiences in a field journal, and using the notes for systematical analysis of the cultural meaning of UMK-reaction videos. Autoethnography calls for open reflection on the researchers' own identity and positionality. Lisowski has published an article on the topic in M/C (Media/Culture)-journal, where she reflects upon researchers positionality, and passion towards ones subject of study. We will discuss these topics with Renata in this weeks Antropodi-podcast episode, that is hosted by Suvi Mononen, a PhD researcher in Social Anthropology at Tampere University.The interview is recorded in two separate sessions. More about Renatas research:ORCID: https://orcid.org/0009-0002-7808-864XLinkedin: https://fi.linkedin.com/in/renatalisowskiWebsite: https://brokehip.com/renataEUPOP conference: https://epcablog.wordpress.com/2026/01/07/eupop-2026-call-for-papers/ Master thesis website: https://renatalisowski.wixsite.com/monumentalmarketingArticle: Lisowski, R. (2025). “Reaction Videos, Researcher Positionality, and Falling Back in Love with Vlogging.” M/C Journal, 28(4). https://doi.org/10.5204/mcj.3200

In a galaxy not so far away....actually, probably your office, your warehouse, or your clinic, workers are getting injured by the same conditions, year after year, because nobody asked them what was wrong.This May the 4th, we're celebrating the most powerful force in workplace safety: your workforce.In this special episode, discover what separates a reactive ergonomics program from one that actually prevents injuries, and the answer isn't fancier equipment or a bigger budget. It's participation. It's structure. And it's knowing the difference between measuring what already went wrong and measuring what's about to.You'll walk away with:The lagging vs. leading indicator framework that shifts a program from reactive to proactiveThe tiered assessment model that lets organizations scale ergonomics without requiring a credentialed ergonomist at every locationThe IWH Participative Ergonomic Blueprint: the gold-standard framework for building a PE program that actually lastsThe ROI data you need to make the business case (spoiler: the average payback period is less than one year)The three most common PE program mistakes and exactly how to avoid themWhether you're an ergonomics consultant helping a client build something sustainable, or a practitioner trying to get leadership to finally take this seriously, this one's for you.May the (work)force be with you. Always.Are you a healthcare professional curious about how office ergonomics assessments could fit into your services? I've got you covered with some valuable (and free!) resources at www.ergonomicshelp.com/free-training.

Collaboration is one of the most widely accepted ideas in environmental governance. When faced with a complex problem, the instinct is almost always to bring stakeholders together and work toward a shared solution. When that process fails the response is often to “collaborate harder”. But what if that instinct is sometimes counterproductive? What if the sheer number of collaborative initiatives is stretching participants so thin that none of them achieve very much? And what if the conflicts that collaboration is supposed to resolve are actually being deepened by the process itself?To explore these questions, I spoke with previous guest Örjan Bodin, Professor at the Stockholm Resilience Centre at Stockholm University. Örjan's research examines how networks of actors collaborate — or fail to collaborate — around environmental problems, and what determines whether those efforts lead to meaningful outcomes. We discuss why collaboration is not always the best response to every problem, how conflict and cooperation coexist, the role of power imbalances in shaping outcomes, why trust takes far longer to build than most initiatives allow for, and whether the small, incremental wins that feel unsatisfying might actually be the best path to lasting progress.Links to resourcesPolycentric systems for coping with collective action and global environmental change - 2010 Ostrom article about the benefits of small initial gains.A population ecology of network domains. Public Management Review - 2023 article on the issue of ever-increasing number of collaborative venues.Reconciling Conflict and Cooperation in Environmental Governance: A Social Network Perspective - 2020 article by Örjan and others on the interplay between conflict and collaboration, and its (partial) separation in scholarly work on environmental governance.Collaborative environmental governance: Achieving collective action in social-ecological systems - 2017 article by Örjan in Science.The Environmental Performance of Participatory and Collaborative Governance: A Framework of Causal Mechanisms - 2018 article by Newig et al.Visit www.case4conservation.com

Most of us think new crop horticulture cultivars are invented behind closed doors, then handed to farmers as a finished product. We wanted to explore that assumption, so we sat down with Dr. Ambar Carvallo Lopez, currently a Post Doctoral Research Associate at the University of British Columbia and an ASHS award-winning author and plant breeder whose work shows how research progresses when growers and consumers Participate in the science. If you care about better-tasting tomatoes, resilient organic agriculture, and the future of local food systems, this conversation connects the dots from seed to plate. In this episode we walk through the concept of participatory plant breeding, where farmers are involved early to define breeding objectives and then help shape selection by trialing lines on their farms. This is a unique form of citizen-science.  Ambar shares how the University of Wisconsin-Madison, Where she completed her PhD, tomato breeding program uses iterative seed exchange and real-world feedback to shorten the “will this work on my farm?” gap that often slows adoption. Along the way, we talk about genotype by environment interactions, high tunnel production, and why building trust with stakeholders can be as important as collecting data. Ambar explains why tomato flavor may have declined over time as breeding programs prioritized yield, disease resistance, and plant structure, and how accessing heirloom tomato diversity can help recover the genes and volatile compounds tied to better aroma and taste. In the conversation also digs into practical breeding targets for organic systems, including foliar diseases like Septoria leaf spot and early blight, plus the behind-the-scenes reality of deciding when a line is ready to release and how to handle credit and IP when farmers are true co-creators. If you finish this episode thinking differently about what's behind a great tomato, share it with a friend, subscribe for more horticultural science, and leave a review so more listeners can find the show.Read "Improved Tomato Breeding Lines Adapted to Organic Farming Systems Have Enhanced Flavor, Yield, and Disease Resistance", winner of the 2025 ASHS Outstanding Vegetable Publication Award. https://doi.org/10.21273/HORTSCI17799-24Send us Fan MailLearn more about the American Society for Horticultural Science (ASHS) at  https://ashs.org/.HortTechnology, HortScience and the Journal of the American Society for Horticultural Science are all open-access and peer-reviewed journals, published by the American Society of Horticultural Science (ASHS). Find them at journals.ashs.org.Consider becoming an ASHS member at https://ashs.org/page/Becomeamember!You can also find the official webpage for Plants, People, Science at ashs.org/plantspeoplesciencepodcast, and we encourage you to send us feedback or suggestions at https://ashs.org/webinarpodcastsuggestion. Podcast transcripts are available at https://plantspeoplescience.buzzsprout.com.On LinkedIn find Sam Humphrey at linkedin.com/in/samson-humphrey. Curt Rom is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/curt-rom-611085134/. Lena Wilson is at https://www.linkedin.com/in/lena-wilson-2531a5141/.Thank you for listening!...

Participatory governance in healthcare means asking the right people the right questions. Three stories where listening as leadership changed everything. Summary This episode is about listening as leadership — the gap between where knowledge lives and where decisions get made, and what it costs when we pretend that gap doesn’t exist. Three stories from my career as a nurse manager, quality director, and VP — three moments where participatory governance in healthcare produced the same result: a no to the status quo. Not a radical no. An obvious one. Obvious, that is, once someone finally asked the people living inside the system. Topics covered: Open visiting hours in the ICU — and what happened when staff pushed back Seven therapy visits, no prior authorization required — and what happened when the company was acquired A disability services resident on a board of directors — and the simple fix that improved every patient experience metric Why participatory governance is the fastest, cheapest diagnostic tool most health system leaders never use The honest difference between patient advisory boards and actually sharing power with patients What patient-centered care looks like when it moves beyond consultation into real shared decision making Click here to view the printable newsletter. More readable than a transcript. Contents Table of Contents Toggle EpisodeProemPart 1: ICU Doors OpenPart 2: Seven Visits, No Questions AskedPart 3: The Right to Say GoodbyeSynthesis: What's Common Across All ThreeReflection Podcast episode on YouTube Episode Proem I’ve spent most of my career in institutions, hospitals, managed care companies, and disability services agencies. These are large, slow-moving systems with their own inertia, logic, and knack for designing processes that work best for billing, and not so well for those receiving or providing services. I should know. I’ve been inside these systems as a clinician, boss, consultant, caregiver, and patient. The boldest changes I was part of didn’t come from a consultant’s report. They didn’t come from a board retreat or a leaders' strategic planning day off-site — though, Lord knows, I’ve sat through plenty of those. They came from the moment when someone, usually someone with very little institutional power, said: This doesn’t work. It’s hurting us. The hardest part wasn’t hearing that. The hardest part was finding the gumption to act. Institutions are good at explaining why things are the way they are. They have binders of policies for that. My secret as a consultant was embarrassingly simple: the people who hired me already had the answers they needed. The nurse who’d been there fifteen years knew. The member who couldn’t get her calls returned knew. I sought them out, listened, and translated their words into a PowerPoint that the boardroom could hear. I want to tell you about three times I got it right. Three moments when the change that mattered was a no. No to visiting hours that kept families from the people they loved. No to a prior authorization process that treated patients and clinicians like suspects and required an army to administer that suspicion. No to a system that let care aides disappear from people’s lives without warning or goodbye, as if the people whose lives they were in didn’t deserve a heads-up. None of these nos were mine originally. I heard them from a family pacing a waiting room, from a member who couldn’t get the help she needed, and from a man with a disability who sat on our board and told us, plainly, what it felt like to wake up one day to find that someone essential to his life was simply gone. Participatory governance sounds like it belongs in a policy manual, right between stakeholder alignment and learning organization. When participatory governance works, it's permission. Permission for the people living and working within a system to tell the truth about it. And the willingness, on the part of whoever’s in charge, to let that truth land. Even when it’s inconvenient. Especially then. Part 1: ICU Doors Open My first experience as a boss was as an ICU nurse manager, a job I got, I should mention, without ever having worked in an ICU or having been a boss. A story for another day. The honeymoon was short. Strictly prescribed visiting hours, ninety minutes in the morning, ninety in the evening, were leaving families miserable. I could see it. They could feel it. In collaboration with my bosses, the ICU medical director, and the chief nurse, I eliminated visiting-hour limits entirely. My staff, who had recruited me for the role, now deeply regretted it. I hadn’t consulted them or thought through the workflow implications. They were furious, and they weren’t wrong to be. But we kept the visiting hours open. Over time, something shifted. I learned how to be a boss. Nurses learned to include families in care and treatment. Patients and families arrived home better prepared. Physicians, for their part, didn’t much care either way. The lesson I learned: this was a story about control. Mine, the nurses’, and ultimately the families’. We eventually set up an informal patient and family advisory group, not because I had planned to, but because we needed them in the room. Part 2: Seven Visits, No Questions Asked My job title was Director of Quality at a behavioral health managed care company. If you’ve spent any time in managed care, you know what that means: Director of Trying to Get an A+ in Every Measure, Whether It Has Meaning or Not. Prior authorization was the centerpiece. A member needs therapy. Their provider submits a request. Someone on our end reviews it, approves or denies it, requests more information, waits, and follows up. The member waits. The provider waits. And somewhere in all that waiting, the person who needed help either got it, gave up, or got worse. I inherited this process. I did not invent it. My boss and I set up an advisory group with members on one side and providers on the other. We asked about their experiences with our company. They were not subtle. Members said the pre-auth process made them feel they had to prove they deserved care. Providers said the company’s default assumption was that they were lying. Neither response was a ringing endorsement. So, we experimented: seven visits, upon request. No authorization required. If a member or their provider asks, they get them. No forms, no review, no waiting. The result: outcomes held. Members received care faster. Providers stopped spending half their administrative time on the phone with us. And our call center, the engine room of the prior authorization machine, grew quieter. Then quieter still. A substantial portion of our staff spent all day managing a process that, in large part, was designed to manage itself. Strip it out, and you didn’t need nearly as many people to run it. The bureaucracy wasn’t protecting anyone. It was the cost. We had real data. Member satisfaction trended up. Providers, for the first time in recent memory, said something positive about the company. The advisory group had surfaced a truth that no quality metric had found, because no quality metric had asked the right people the right question. Then the company was acquired. New owners, new priorities, no appetite for any of this. The program was terminated, and the advisory group disbanded. I can only assume the prior authorization process resumed its proud tradition of making everyone miserable in the name of oversight. I learned that participatory governance surfaces the truth faster than most quality improvement methodologies I’ve encountered. But institutions don’t always want the truth. Sometimes they want the process. The process is familiar. It distributes responsibility. It means nobody has to decide. The advisory group uncovered a truth. It turned out that the people who bought the company got a veto. Part 3: The Right to Say Goodbye There’s a particular kind of organizational meeting where everyone knows something is wrong, the data is right there on the slides, and somehow the conversation goes nowhere. Lots of nodding. Lots of concern. Lots of commitment to further analysis. I worked as VP of Quality at an organization supporting forty thousand people with disabilities, many of them living in group homes, relying on personal care aides for the most intimate parts of daily life. Getting dressed. Eating. Toileting. Moving through the world. At my first Board meeting, we reviewed satisfaction survey results, which were poor. They were not nuanced, requiring careful interpretation. They told us something was bad. And we were doing what organizations do: analyzing, discussing, and scheduling follow-up meetings to review the analysis. We were not asking the people who lived there. The agency was committed to resident/patient participation in governance committees, including the Board; in this case, a resident of one of our group homes served on the Board. Not as a symbol. As a Board member. At one of these meetings, in the middle of what was shaping up to be another productive session of collective concern, he said something that stopped the room. He said: People leave without warning. A personal care aide, someone who helps you start each day, who knows how you take your coffee, which jokes make you laugh, and how you like your blanket folded, is just gone one morning. No notice. No goodbye. Someone new shows up, and you’re expected to adjust. He said it plainly, not as an accusation but as a fact. He apparently assumed, incorrectly, that we already knew. We didn’t. Or rather, someone knew. The people living in the homes knew. The aides probably knew. It just hadn’t made it into the meeting room until he put it there. The fix was insultingly simple. When an aide left, for any reason, residents would be told in advance. A chance to say goodbye. A proper introduction to whoever came next, rather than a key, an address, and good luck. That was the intervention. Advance notice, a goodbye, a hello — the basic courtesies we’d extend to anyone, anywhere, in any other context. Survey results improved dramatically in the next cycle. Not in one or two categories. Across the board. Because what was wrong wasn’t a program or a resource allocation. It was that the people living inside the system had been treated as though their experience of it didn’t count as information. The lesson I carry from that room is the simplest I know: the person living inside the system always knows. They know what’s breaking, what would fix it, and they’ve usually been waiting, sometimes for years, for someone to ask. You just have to put them in the room and believe them when they speak. The keyword is just. Just assumes a lot. Synthesis: What's Common Across All Three Three organizations. Three populations. Three problems, unresolved within systems staffed by smart, well-meaning people. In every case, the answer was already there. It lived in the wrong room. I want to be honest about something. Looking back, only one of these three was truly participatory governance: the man in the group home who served on our board. The ICU families and advisory group members had real influence but no structural authority. They could inform decisions, but they couldn’t stop them. That distinction matters, and I don’t want to paper over it. What they all shared was something simpler yet harder than governance design: someone with institutional power chose to ask, then chose to act on what they heard. The families pacing the ICU waiting room knew visiting hours weren’t protecting patients; they were protecting the unit’s sense of order. The members and providers in that behavioral health advisory group knew prior authorization wasn’t ensuring quality; it was ensuring paperwork. The man on our board knew what was breaking down wasn’t resources or staffing ratios. It was the simple human expectation of a goodbye. None of them needed a consultant. They needed someone with enough authority to ask the question and enough humility to sit with the answer. Here’s what I’ve come to believe: participatory governance, done seriously, is the fastest and cheapest diagnostic tool any leader has. Faster than a consultant. Cheaper than a task force. More accurate than a satisfaction survey that asks the wrong questions of the right people and calls it listening. The nos in these stories weren’t radical. They were obvious, embarrassingly obvious, once you asked the people who already knew. What made them feel radical was the gap between where the knowledge lived and where decisions were made. That gap has a name. Several, actually. We call it hierarchy, liability, chain of command, and expertise — the comfortable assumption that the people at the top understand a system better than those inside it every day. Sometimes that’s true. Often it isn’t. And the cost of acting as though it’s always true is borne by those with the least power to push back. The anxious family in the hallway. The member who couldn’t get through. The man in the group home who, generously, assumed we already knew what he was about to tell us. They were the experts. We had the org chart. Reflection Honestly, I’m proud of these three stories, but I’m not sure I deserve much credit. In each case, the hard work, the observing, the enduring, the knowing, was done by someone else. A family pacing a hallway. A patient who kept calling back. A man who showed up for board meetings and told the truth to a room that had been avoiding it. I contributed a willingness to ask and enough positional authority to act on what I heard. I'm struck by how long those answers had been waiting. The ICU families weren’t new. Frustration with prior auth wasn’t a surprise to anyone who’d navigated it. How long had group home residents been losing people without warning? Nobody seemed to know exactly, long enough that it had stopped registering as a problem and had started registering as just the way things were. That’s the part I can’t shake: the way systems normalize their own failures. The way this is how we do it becomes indistinguishable from this is the only way it can be done. And the people most hurt by that confusion are usually the least positioned to correct it. I got lucky. Three times, I was in the right seat, and the right person was willing to tell me what I needed to hear. Not every leader gets that, and not every leader goes looking for it. The question I’d leave you with — the one I still ask whenever I walk into a new system, a new organization, or any room where decisions are being made about people who aren’t present: Who already knows the answer? And what would it take to let them say it out loud? If you’ve been in that room — where someone finally said the quiet part and the right no was finally spoken — I want to hear about it. Find me at dannyhealthhats@gmail.com. Tell me your version. I promise you: it’s better than you think. And someone out there needs to hear it. Please comment and ask questions: at the comment section at the bottom of the show notes on LinkedIn  via email YouTube channel  DM on Instagram, TikTok to @healthhats Substack Patreon Production Team Kayla Nelson: Web and Social Media Coach, Dissemination, Help Desk  Leon van Leeuwen: editing and site management Oscar van Leeuwen: video editing Julia Higgins: Digit marketing therapy Steve Heatherington: Help Desk and podcast production counseling Joey van Leeuwen, Drummer, Composer, and Arranger, provided the music for the intro, outro, proem, and reflection Claude, Perplexity, Auphonic, Descript, Grammarly, DaVinci Inspired by and Grateful to: Jan Oldenburg, Laura Marcial, Ronda Alexander, Libby Hoy, Lacy Fabian, James Harrison Photo Credits  NASA Referenced in episode   Related episodes from Health Hats https://health-hats.com/patient-family-advisors-back-2-basics/ https://health-hats.com/teachable-spirit-patient-family-advisors/ https://health-hats.com/pod237/ Artificial Intelligence in Podcast Production Health Hats, the Podcast, utilizes AI tools for production tasks such as editing, transcription, and content suggestions. While AI assists with various aspects, including image creation, most AI suggestions are modified. All creative decisions remain my own, with AI sources referenced as usual. Questions are welcome. Creative Commons Licensing CC BY-NC-SA This license enables reusers to distribute, remix, adapt, and build upon the material in any medium or format for noncommercial purposes only, and only so long as attribution is given to the creator. If you remix, adapt, or build upon the material, you must license the modified material under identical terms. CC BY-NC-SA includes the following elements:    BY: credit must be given to the creator.   NC: Only noncommercial uses of the work are permitted.    SA: Adaptations must be shared under the same terms. Please let me know. dannyhealthhats@gmail.com  Material on this site created by others is theirs, and use follows their guidelines. Disclaimer The views and opinions presented in this podcast and publication are solely my responsibility and do not necessarily represent the views of the Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute®  (PCORI®), its Board of Governors, or Methodology Committee. Danny van Leeuwen (Health Hats)

David and Digital Green CEO Rikin Gandhi discuss the intersection of farmer research networks, participatory agricultural research, and AI-enabled extension systems. They explore how tools like Farmer Chat could support large-scale, farmer-led experimentation by combining rich qualitative data with rigorous research design. The conversation highlights the potential for more collaborative, context-sensitive agricultural systems that place farmer agency at the centre of both research and technology development.

Does Jan really know what he is talking about? Like we did with Nick last time, we play another round of trivia questions about information systems research – but now Nick is the host and Jan is the player. How well does he know the field? Tune in to find out. And like last time, you can play our game for yourself. The questions are posted below. Play the game for yourself: Round 1 Question: MIS Quarterly is physically headquartered and historically associated with which American university? A. MIT B. Georgia State University C. Indiana University D. University of Minnesota Round 2 Question: In 2003, which scholar wrote the highly influential MISQ Issues & Opinions paper entitled "The Identity Crisis within the Is Discipline: Defining and Communicating the Discipline's Core Properties"? A. Wanda Orlikowski B. Izak Benbasat C. Varun Grover D. Ben Shneiderman Round 3 Question: Wanda Orlikowski, a frequent contributor to both MIS Quarterly and Information Systems Research, is famous for a 1992 Organization Science paper that introduced which theory to the IS field? A. Structuration Theory B. Actor-network Theory C. Transaction Cost Theory D. Punctuated Equilibrium Theory Round 4 Question: Enid Mumford is most closely associated with which IS development practice? A. Requirements engineering B. Rapid application development C. Object orientationD. User participation Round 5 Question: In which years were the first issues of MISQ and ISR published? A. 1977 and 1980 B. 1980 and 1990 C. 1980 and 1985 D. 1977 and 1990 Round 6 Question: Markus (1983), in one of the most famous IS papers ever written, used a case study to argue that "resistance" to a new system is caused by: A. Lack of technology fit B. Change fatigue C. Power imbalances D. User cognition Round 7 Question: In his work on system failure, Lyytinen argued that the traditional "technical" view of systems development was too narrow. He instead developed a framework of IS failure focusing on which of the following? A. Expectation Failure B. Socio-technical Failure C. Temporal Failure D. Representation Failure Round 8 Question: Which of these concepts associated with the work of Mark Keil is frequently cited as a common dysfunction in system development and implementation projects? A. Resistance B. Escalation of commitment C. Power dynamics D. Inadequate documentation Round 9 Question: The classic paper by Grover, Jeong, Kettinger, and Teng (1995) regarding business process reengineering success was published in which journal, known for its strong ties to economic IS research? A. Journal of Management Information Systems B. Information Systems Research C. Information & Management D. Management Science Round 10 Question: Which 2004 MISQ paper by Hevner, March, Park and Ram introduced the "Design Science" paradigm in IS research, providing a set of seven guidelines for the craft? A. "Information Systems Strategy" B. "The IT Artifact" C. "Design Science in Information Systems Research" D. "Rigorous Research in the Digital Age" Round 11 Question: Willcocks and Lacity are world-renowned scholars who have published a massive body of "classic" works across JIT and MISQ regarding what specific organizational phenomenon? A. Strategic value of IT B. Outsourcing C. Post adoption system use D. Participatory methods for IS development Round 12 Question: In 1991, Banker and Kemerer published a highly influential paper in Information Systems Research regarding Economies of scale in software development. What was their primary tool for measuring software size and complexity? A. Lines of Code B. Function Points C. Entropy D. Cyclometric Complexity

End chaos in your firm—300+ peers use this framework. Free video here: https://www.businessofarchitecture.com/framework Most architects fear that free work devalues their profession. But what if there was a way to offer pro bono design without losing money—and even turn it into projects that fuel your practice? In this episode, Enoch Sears speaks with Chris Bryant, founding director of Alma-Nac. Together, they explore a bold approach that mixes generosity with business sense and how it has led to opportunities that would never have appeared otherwise. Chris shares lessons from the early days of "free architecture" to a structured model that now supports communities, wins trust, and even sparks funding. Along the way, you'll hear stories of risk, trial, and surprising payoffs. In this episode, you'll discover: The overlooked move that turned "free" sketches into serious work. Why a simple outreach strategy was harder than expected—but worth it. How one pro bono project unlocked resources beyond anyone's guess. To learn more about Chris, visit their website: alma-nac.com

Emma Falkenstein, Associate Planner at Highland Planning joined the podcast to discuss participatory mapping. She talked about community walk audits and how can local governments can incorporate walk audits into their regular planning procedures. She also talked about the value of community relationships as it relates to shaping where people live. Host: Toney Thompson

Yvette Borja interviews Sandra De Anda, the Director of Legal and Policy Strategy at the Orange County Rapid Response Network. They discuss the history of participatory defense in Orange County, explain how the organization has pivoted during the increased immigration enforcement under the second Trump administration, and share how the participatory defense model allows for the distribution of legal knowledge amongst community members who are empowered to interrupt criminalization and deportation. Support the podcast by becoming a patron: https://patreon.com/radiocachimbona?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLinkFollow @radiocachimbona on Instagram, X, and FacebookLearn more about the Orange County Rapid Response Network's work here: https://ocrapidresponse.org/

This episode is a recording of a panel conversation at the NYU Journal of International Law and Politics 2026 symposium with Yvette Borja, the Laura E. Gómez Teaching Fellow at UCLA Law School, and Rachel López, the Barrack Chair in Law at Temple Law School. They discuss Yvette's forthcoming article: Participatory Deportation Defense, Becoming Abogades de Confianza, the shared tenets between participatory defense and participatory law scholarship, and what repair and redress might look like outside of a retributive/punitive frame. To support the podcast, become a patron at: https://patreon.com/radiocachimbona?utm_medium=unknown&utm_source=join_link&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=copyLinkFollow @radio.cachimbona on Instagram, X, and Facebook

Episode 379 of RevolutionZ starts with some discussion of the savaging of the Iranian people before returning to our sequence of chapter excerpts from the forthcoming book, The Wind Cries Freedom to discuss experiences of education and economy in the participatory revolutionary struggles of the next American revolution. Trump represses and depots; bellows and bombs. Are we doomed to chase every new outrage, or can we build a unified movement that outlasts headlines and outmaneuvers chaos? Are we whacking moles, one by one, with us divided up like the moles are? With us atomized? Or are we united so as to collectively thrash the whole field of moles all together? One big struggle? Can we go from war talk and whiplash politics to a grounded strategy that links antiwar action, racial and gender justice, economic equity, anti-fascism, and environmental preservation into one big movement of movements to actually compound strength rather than splinter it?From that foray into foreign affairs made local, we present the 24th chapter of Miguel Guevara's oral history project. This time, he questions Bertrand Jagger, Bridget Knight, and Julius Rocker about education and then also economy. The interviewees and Miguel together discuss how universities trained obedience and optimized for fractured attentions were pushed toward a new mandate—curiosity, context, and courage. Communities opened public schools at night, turned libraries into festivals, and made classrooms into commons. Student strikes didn't just shut campuses down; they reopened them as shared spaces where teachers and students co-chaired sessions, set aims, and demanded preparation for balanced jobs that reject classist pipelines.Workplaces followed suit. Early co-ops that initially kept managerial habits learned that full irreversible transformation needs balanced jobs and self-managed decision-making. The critical breakthrough came when shops federated workers' councils, shared methods, provided mutual insurance, and spread solidarity across industries. Public services moved first, but hospitals, manufacturing, and large firms of diverse kinds developed cracks where new norms—solidarity, equity, transparency, diversity, ecological standards and especially self-management—took root.Throughout their interviews the interviewees describe their thoughts and feelings regarding on-going struggles and events. We hear about a long march through the economy to spread new remuneration norms and work roles inside firms and then to reorient allocation writ larger. Instead of markets that pit workers against consumers, and one another, we hear how councils began to plan together around need, capacity, and impact. Participatory budgeting simultaneously began to spread these habits in cities to turn policies into a public craft. The result, the interviewees explain, was a transitional landscape where two economies coexist:ed one clinging to ownership, profits, power, and spectacle, the other winning trust by delivering dignity, competence, equity, and shared voice. The discussions also address independent media, transforming institutions from the inside, and building new ones from scratch always with eyes on relentless outreach to ensure that the new can grow without being captured or bent out of shape by the old not yet entirely replaced.If building schools as commons and reconstructing jobs to only produce effectively but also ensure self management sounds like a future worth winning, perhaps hit follow and share this episode with fellow students, neighbors, friends, and/or workmates.Support the show

Kingdom Living (Part 2): Participatory w/ Walter Kim Cara: In 2026, the GC podcast is shifting to a new format with two miniseries released throughout the year rather than monthly episodes. This change is going to allow us to go deeper into meaningful conversations that support our shared journey of Kingdom Living. In the first […] The post Kingdom Living (Part 2): Participatory w/ Walter Kim first appeared on Grace Communion International Resources....

In this episode of NP Pulse: The Voice of the Nurse Practitioner®️, Dr. Kenneth Wells, Dr. Bowen Chung and Felica Jones will discuss the role of primary care providers in a collaborative care approach to depression treatment for adults living in under-resourced communities. Learn more about their research by reading the A Community-Partnered, Participatory, Cluster-Randomized Study of Depression Care Quality Improvement: Three-Year Outcomes study. Upon successful completion of this podcast, you will be able to: Define under-resourced communities and collaborative care. Compare using a coalition approach to a traditional technical assistance program for serving adults with depression. Discuss how to engage patients as partners in research. This episode was developed as part of the American Association of Nurse Practitioners'® (AANP) Clinical Effectiveness Research Initiative, which is funded by a Eugene Washington Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute Engagement Award (EADI #35224).  A participation code will be provided at the END of the podcast — make sure to write this code down. Once you have listened to the podcast and have the participation code, return to this activity in the AANP CE Center and follow these steps: Register for this activity. Click on the "Next Steps" button. Enter the participation code that was provided. Complete the activity evaluation. This will award your continuing education (CE) credit and certificate of completion. 0.75 CE will be available through Feb. 29, 2028.  Please see below for links to resources that the speakers mentioned in the episode. Community Partners in Care (CPIC): Learn more about this collaborative research project of community and academic partners working together to provide depression-related services to under-resourced communities. Depression Toolkit Resources: This toolkit contains a screening instrument, care management forms, cognitive behavioral therapy resources and educational videos. Together for Wellness: A collection of mental health and wellness resources for youth and their parents and caregivers that is available in English and Spanish.

Join us in this episode of Qualitative Conversations as  Melissa Hauber-Özer  (University of Missouri) hosts Meagan Call-Cummings (Johns Hopkins University) and  Giovanni Dazzo  (University of Georgia) to explore the transformative approach of critical participatory inquiry. Discover how this methodology promotes equitable knowledge production and social change, rooted in global South perspectives and critical theory. Their work, Critical Participatory Inquiry: An Interdisciplinary Guide, was honored with the AERA Qualitative Research SIG Book Award for 2025. Featured Resources:Call-Cummings, M., Dazzo, G. P., & Hauber-Özer, M. (2023). Critical participatory inquiry: An interdisciplinary guide. Sage Publications.  Fals-Borda, O., Rahman, M.A. (1991). Action and Knowledge: Breaking the Monopoly with Participatory Action-Research. Bloomsbury Academic Call-Cummings, M., Hauber-Özer, M., & Dazzo, G. P. (Eds.). (2023). The Routledge International Handbook of Critical Participatory Inquiry in Transnational Research Contexts. Taylor & Francis Group.   Kirk, J., & Miller, M. L. (1986).Reliability and validity in qualitative research (Vol. 1). Sage.  Scholars mentioned: Paulo Freire Frantz FanonWalter D. Mignolo Sharrell Hassell-Goodman  Production Credits:Melissa Hauber-Özer - Host Meagan Call-Cummings - Co-Host Giovanni Dazzo - Co-Host Jacob Bunch - Editor Pallavi Chhabra and Jacob Bunch - Show Notes and Resources Qualitative Research SIG Podcast Committee - Production AdvisoryQualitative Research SIG Podcast Committee Members: Laetitia Adelson Jacob Bunch,  Committee Chair Pallavi ChhabraJonathan Coker Joshua Cruz Melissa Hauber-Özer Emma McMain  Seth McCall Elizabeth Morgan Elizabeth Pope 

We discuss a precious time capsule we have here in North Carolina — our state archives. We'll discuss with the state archivist what it takes to maintain history and how someone can find pieces of themselves reflected in archives. We also find out what you won't discover in the state's archives, and why that is.

Participatory Science used to be called Citizen Science, and then Community Science, but the emphasis on participation highlights that we are contributing to something large and impactful for which we don't ask what science can do for us, but what we can do for science.

In this week's episode, we are joined by special guest Bhenn Tonks to contemplate the relationship between the observer and the observed in examining William Greaves' 1968 experimental triumph, Symbiopsychotaxiplasm: Take One."Contact UsEmail: contact@jimmybernasconi.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/filmsfortoday/?hl=en

One on One Video Call W/George https://tidycal.com/georgepmonty/60-minute-meetingSupport the show:https://www.paypal.me/Truelifepodcast?locale.x=en_US

In this episode of the AIGA Design Podcast, Lee-Sean Huang and Giulia Donatello engage in an inspiring conversation with Devika Menon, a service design and delivery lead at the City of Philadelphia. They explore Devika's diverse career journey, from her early days in animation film design to her current role in civic design. The discussion highlights the importance of human-centered design, the challenges of working within government systems, and the significance of participatory service design. Devika shares insights on navigating uncertainty, the impact of cultural experiences on design thinking, and the value of collaboration in creating sustainable change.Episode Recommendations:Book: Good Services: Decoding the Mystery of What Makes a Good ServiceBook: Braiding Sweetgrass

AI permeates K-12 education, but the rush to adopt new tools often bypasses critical questions about equity, bias, and human connection. On this episode of Trending in Education, host Mike Palmer sits down with Stephanie Smith Budhai and Marie K. Heath, co-authors of the new book Critical AI in K-12 Classrooms: A Practical Guide for Cultivating Justice and Joy. Together, they dismantle the "myth of inevitability" surrounding EdTech and explore how educators can reclaim agency in the face of rapid technological change with AI. From the historical resistance of Sojourner Truth to the concept of the classroom as a "Home Place," the conversation offers a refreshing, techno-skeptical framework that prioritizes student flourishing over big tech's framing. Key Takeaways: Reframing the Narrative: Why "Justice and Joy" must remain central to education, ensuring schools are spaces of affirmation rather than just sites of data extraction. The "Home Place" Concept: How bell hooks' notion of a "Home Place" helps teachers create safe harbors where students can critically interrogate harmful AI outputs and resist standardized bias. Sojourner Truth as Metaphor: A look at how Sojourner Truth co-opted and subverted the cartes de visites photography of her day to fund abolition—and how modern students and educators can similarly "sell the shadow to support the substance". Pedagogies of Resistance: An overview of culturally sustaining, fugitive, and abolitionist pedagogies that equip teachers to challenge oppressive structures within AI and educational technology. The Four Ps of Action: Practical steps for moving forward through Personal, Professional, Pedagogical, and Participatory action. Why You Should Listen: This conversation moves beyond the basic "how-to" of generative AI tools. Instead, it tackles the moral and ethical dimensions of bringing powerful, often biased technologies into the classroom. If you are an educator, administrator, or parent looking for a way to navigate the AI hype with your values intact, this episode provides the historical context and practical strategies needed to foster true digital agency. Like, Share, and Follow wherever you get your podcasts to stay ahead of the curve on the future of learning. Visit us at TrendinginEd.com for more. Time Stamps: [00:00] Intro: Criticality in the Age of AI [01:58] Stephanie's Origin Story: From Nursing to EdTech [04:58] Marie's Origin Story: Reluctant Teacher to Critical Scholar [09:25] Writing the Book: Centering Justice in Tech [11:20] Why Justice and Joy Matter [16:00] Bell Hooks and the Classroom as "Home Place" [20:30] Confronting AI Bias: The "High School Boy" Example [23:00] Sojourner Truth and Co-opting Biased Tech [29:00] The Myth of Inevitability: Do We Have to Use AI? [33:00] Culturally Sustaining, Fugitive, and Abolitionist Pedagogies [41:40] The 4 Ps: Taking Action Towards Just AI [44:00] Conclusion

This deep dive comprehensively challenges the foundational materialist model by synthesizing cutting-edge biological research with decades of high-strangeness data, including near-death experiences (NDEs), the UAP phenomenon, and reports of paranormal events. The central conflict addressed is whether reality consists of separate physical things or is fundamentally an expression of a unified, non-local field, leading to the essential question of whether physical matter creates consciousness or is merely its byproduct.The sources argue that science, while possessing immensely powerful models capable of precise description (how gravity or cells work), fundamentally fails to provide the ultimate explanation (why these laws exist), creating a "total black box". This distinction between description and explanation highlights the historical hubris seen in the late 19th century, when influential physicists believed "everything had already been discovered," only for Relativity and Quantum Mechanics to shatter the perceived fixed laws of reality soon after. This failure of explanation persists today, making highly descriptive data, such as military UAP reports, intractable because the required underlying theory of existence is missing.The inadequacy of the materialist view forces a paradigm shift to reality defined by non-physical information and pattern, termed the Platonic blueprint. Abstract truths, such as the constant π or the Fibonacci sequence, are discovered, not invented, and exist as fixed, immutable relationships independent of physical matter. This suggests they are the "deep architecture" or scaffolding upon which the physical universe is built.Physical matter is reduced to an "epiphenomenon"—a secondary effect or byproduct, like smoke from the fire that is the primary field.The brain is thus viewed not as the source of consciousness, but as a "localized receiver" or terminal jacked into a non-local network. Consciousness must be the operating system itself, given that cognitive scientists view spacetime as merely an interface or "headset" designed for survival, meaning the brain, which exists inside that construct, cannot possibly create consciousness. This concept of consciousness as a non-local field is overwhelmingly validated by experiential data from NDEs, where survivors often report a sense of oneness and intuitive, expansive knowledge that cannot be explained by the local brain, such as a blind woman suddenly understanding calculus.Dr. Michael Levin's work aligns with this pattern-based view, focusing on agency and goal-seeking capacity regardless of material composition. He defines the self by the scale of its goals—its "cognitive light cone". Disease, like cancer, is reinterpreted as a failure of collective cognition where cells shrink their light cone and revert to a primitive, selfish imperative. Experimental systems like xenobots, which are simple cells demonstrating sophisticated, complex competencies like kinematic self-replication without any evolutionary history for the behavior, strongly suggest that the patterns for these minds are pulled from a pre-existing latent space, the Platonic field.Ultimately, the sources conclude that reality is a participatory universe, where observation shapes outcomes and the distinction between the observer and the observed is dissolved. The UAP phenomenon exemplifies this by its "highly reflexive" nature, mirroring the witness's culture, trauma, or expectation. This deliberate ambiguity—the phenomenon persistently staying "just out of reach"—is crucial, as it forces humanity to constantly upgrade its understanding of reality, ensuring that the game of discovery and developmental growth continues. #NonLocal #cancercure #PlatonicBlueprint,.#ConsciousnessIsFundamental #ParticipatoryUniverse #PostMaterialism #MichaelLevin #CognitiveAgency #Brain #UAPPhenomenon #Xenobots #REALITY #HighStrangeness #BigBang

I interviewed Luna Maurer & Roel Wouters about Deep Soup on Tuesday, November 18, 2025 at IDFA DocLab in Amsterdam, Netherlands. You can also check out their Designing Friction Manifesto. This is a listener-supported podcast through the Voices of VR Patreon. Music: Fatality

Why does an 18th-century Christian oratorio lend such comfort to our own turbulent times? Stephen Dubner sets out for Dublin to tell the story of George Frideric Handel's Messiah. (Part one of “Making Messiah.”) SOURCES:Charles King, political scientist at Georgetown University.Katrine Sørensen, Danish broadcaster, host of Handel's Messiah - The Advent Calendar.Mark Risinger, teacher at St. Bernard's School.Michael and Aileen Casey, Dublin conservationists.Proinnsías Ó Duinn, conductor and music director of Our Lady's Choral Society.Stuart Kinsella, tenor soloist and consort singer. RESOURCES:Every Valley: The Desperate Lives and Troubled Times That Made Handel's Messiah, by Charles King (2024)."Two Men Wrote ‘Messiah.' You Know One of Them." by Charles King (New York Times, 2024)."On Fishamble Street, family lives among four centuries of relatives' keepsakes," by Zuzia Whelan (Dublin Inquirer, 2018).Hallelujah: The Story of a Musical Genius & the City That Brought His Masterpiece, by Jonathan Bardon (2016).George Frideric Handel: A Life with Friends, by Ellen Harris (2014).Handel: The Man & His Music, by Jonathan Keates (2010)."Handel's Messiah," performed by The London Symphony Orchestra (2007).Handel's Messiah The Advent Calendar, podcast series. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

An interesting participation-driven art event is opening at the Neve Schechter’s Center for Contemporary Jewish Music and art in Neve Tzedek. It’s called Roll of Destiny and it’s where role play meets art and Jewish identity and culture. Reporter Arieh O’Sullivan spoke with curator of the event Bar Yerushalmi. (photo: courtesy) See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What happens when organizations can't dream?Not because they lack vision. But because they're too busy scrambling to make payroll, chasing emergency grants, firefighting the latest crisis. Scarcity doesn't just drain bank accounts — it steals the capacity to imagine what's possible.In this episode, I sit down with Jamye Wooten, founder of CLLCTIVLY in Baltimore, to explore what he calls "reactivism" and how the social impact sector got trapped in a cycle of moving from crisis to crisis, hashtag to hashtag, never building the institutions we actually need.After years on the front lines in Ferguson and Baltimore, Jamye stepped back to create what he calls an "imagination incubator" — and he's putting real resources behind it. We dig into what it actually takes to give leaders the space they need to dream, the hidden costs of the grind we celebrate, and why capital (not training) is what builds capacity.In our conversation, we explore:Why scarcity steals imagination — and what that costs us [01:47]Creating containers for imagination: CLLCTIVLY's $75K residency program [04:30]The capacity building myth: why organizations need capital, not more training [12:22]What funders get wrong about outcomes and sustainability [06:08]Participatory grantmaking and putting people before projects [09:22]How philanthropy shifts priorities every 3-5 years — and why that's devastating [10:09]The missing VC-style pipeline for social impact organizations [12:00]Partnership vs. paternalism: reimagining funder-grantee relationships [19:27]Navigating the DEI backlash and building sustainable funding models [16:31]From $5,000 to $1.2 million: how individual donors built Collective Give [19:00]Creating power balance in philanthropy spaces [22:12]The personal cost: "Dad, you're so close, but so far" [30:44]What keeps Jamye going when the work is relentless [29:17]Connect with CLLCTIVLY and what's next [33:56]Notable Quotes"We've been trying to create a container for imagination and to provide space for other folks to pause and imagine the future that they want to see." — Jamye Wooten [03:43]"Capital will help you build capacity. What does it mean to get the upfront capital that allows me to go hire my CFO and my CEO and begin to build out a team? Most folks are building as they climb without this type of infrastructure." — Jamye Wooten [13:40]"We may celebrate the hustle, the bootstrapping and the grind and resilience of community. It will also take you out." — Jamye Wooten [09:45]"I would love to see foundations and funders make a long-term commitment to really bet like they want organizations to win." — Jamye Wooten [11:22]"The times are urgent, we must slow down." — Jamye Wooten [29:40]P.S. — Struggling to align your mission with your message? Cosmic helps social impact leaders build brands that actually reflect the change you're creating. Let's talk about your vision: Listeners, now you can text us your comments or questions by clicking this link.*** If you liked this episode, please help spread the word. Share with your friends or co-workers, post it to social media, “follow” or “subscribe” in your podcast app, or write a review on Apple Podcasts. We could not do this without you! We love hearing feedback from our community, so please email us with your questions or comments — including topics you'd like us to cover in future episodes — at podcast@designbycosmic.com Thank you for all that you do for your cause and for being part of the movement to move humanity and the planet forward.

For Episode 229, I'm thrilled to welcome Mark Pascall, Co-Founder of The Wellbeing Protocol and the newly launched hum.community a participatory funding platform that transforms how local communities allocate funds.In today's episode, we explore this question and the origins of The Wellbeing Protocol, the lessons learned from 15 pilot projects across New Zealand, Australia, and the UK, and why hum.community is such a meaningful milestone for the future of community-led impact.You'll learn:

Episode 364 of RevolutionZ begins with a brief discussion of the Epstein phenomenon. How do elites manufacture loyalty and impose silence? How did Epstein (and Trump too) get constituencies that not only ought to have known better, but literally ought to have abhorred them, to instead become sycophants or at least friends? After that interlude, the episode continues the oral history presentation of the Wind Cries Freedom episodes This time, Miguel Guevara elicits from his interviewees reports regarding Revolutionary Participatory Society's initial post convention vision for a society where people actually manage the decisions that shape their lives. The connection with Epstein and Trump? As power recruits through fear, favors, routine, and spectacle, we must answer with vision and program that makes popular agency normal, protects dissent, and make hierarchy impossible to resurrect.Guevara's interviewees describe arriving at a clear foundation for democratic life. Politics moves beyond occasional voting to year-round self-management. Decision-making power tracks impact. Society reveres dissent. Economy rejects owner and coordinator dominance. It favors workers self management, balanced jobs, and income based on effort, duration, and onerousness of socially valued labor. Participatory planning replaces markets and command with cooperative negotiation conducted via workers and consumers councils. Compatible commitments contour everyday life. Caregiving is shared. Consent-centered sex education bolsters sexually and emotionally diverse relationships. Partnerships endure without perks. Cultural self-governing communities have the space and means to thrive so long as universal rights hold. Across borders, internationalism eliminates empire. Across time, addressing full ecological and social costs ensures that future generations inherit options, not debts.The RPS conception was that commitments should and could keep hope honest. Guevara's interviewees detail their support for recallable leadership, transparent roles, internal diversity, and childcare and mutual aid practices that make participation possible. Empowering tasks are distributed so influence cannot accumulate. RPS initial strategy, the interviewees report, favored nonviolence and context-aware electoral choices. RPS vision and program operated as a scaffold are participants to elaborate in contextually contingent situations.. RPS members' shared aim they explain, was to win reforms that leave people and organizations more connected, more confident, and more capable of winning still more gains. Throughout, the interviewees reveal how status seeking, impatience, defeatism, and inflexible personal habits corroded movements and describe how humility, listening, and rigor strengthened movements. In sum, this episode offers describes some ways a particular future movement turned values into institutions and made collective self management a daily practice. The interviewees don't provide a blueprint. Indeed, they reject the virtue and even the possibility of blueprints. They instead offer their own experiences in hopes they can be adapted, refined, augmented, and when need be ignored in a different time and different context which needs to arrive at its own vision and strategy. If the recounting resonates for you, subscribe and share with a friend or ten. What guardrails against persistent hierarchy do you favor? What visions do you advocate? What motives and means fuel your life choices? Don't we all need to each be able to respond to such questions? Don't we need to be able to use our answers to such questions to go forward against Trumpism Epsteinism and every other ism that subjugates any living soul? If we do, maybe the interviewees from The Wind Cries Freedom convey lessons we can usefully adapt.Support the show

To exist as a black male in America is to be perceived as a threat, where criminality is attributed by default and violence is justified from racial bias. And as a young man, Pastor Mike McBride learned through personal experience that following Jesus does not protect you from the violence of the state. How could it, when Jesus himself was crucified by religious- and state-sponsored violence? In this episode, Pastor Mike (The Way Christian Center, Berkeley, CA) joins Mark Labberton to discuss the confluence of Black Pentecostal holiness, police brutality, gun violence prevention, Christian nationalism, political polarization, racial justice, and the urgent spiritual crisis facing the American church. From his childhood in the San Francisco neighborhood of Bayview–Hunter's Point, to the trauma of a police assault in 1999, to national leadership in Ferguson, to confronting the rise of authoritarian Christianity, Pastor Mike traces the formation of his vocation and the cost of staying faithful to Jesus in a nation shaped by anti-blackness and state-sponsored violence. His story of survival, theological awakening, moral urgency, and hopeful action is rooted in the gospel's call to respond with peaceful action against the violence of the world. Episode Highlights "What is it about this gospel that their family members, their parents trust you with the salvation of their souls, but not the safety of their bodies." "It forced me to really have a strong come to Jesus meeting about how am I being prepared to do what I was already feeling a lifeline calling of ministry while I was starting the work of justice as a first victim and crime survivor." "It is some kind of delusion for us to follow Jesus who got crucified and killed by the state and then be surprised when we get crucified by the state." "I think there was just this sensibility that was a part of our upbringing that this is what it means to be black in America." "People are being discipled into racism. People are being discipled into anti-blackness." "I hope that feeding the hungry clothing the naked healing the sick is not something that in 2025 Christians identify as some leftist socialist liberal Christianity or we've lost it." Helpful Links and Resources Live Free USA https://www.livefreeusa.org Roots, Alex Haley https://www.amazon.com/Roots-American-Family-Alex-Haley/dp/030682485X Boston TenPoint Coalition / Eugene Rivers https://btpc.org/ Oscar Grant Case (NPR Overview) https://www.npr.org/2010/07/09/128401136/transit-officers-verdict-sparks-violent-protests About Michael McBride Pastor Michael McBride (often known as "Pastor Mike") is the National Director of Live Free USA, a nationwide movement of faith leaders and congregations dedicated to ending gun violence, mass incarceration, and the criminalization of Black and Brown communities. A respected activist, pastor, and organizer, he has been a prominent voice in national efforts to address police violence, promote community-based safety strategies, and mobilize churches for racial justice. Pastor Mike is also the founding pastor of The Way Christian Center in Berkeley, California. His leadership, advocacy, and public witness have been featured across major media outlets, integrating faith, justice, and community transformation. Show Notes Holiness, formation, and black pentecostal roots Growing up as the second oldest of six in Hunters Point with deep Southern family roots "We grew up just very much enmeshed in a black church, holiness culture." Strict holiness prohibitions: no movies, no drinking, no secular music, no dancing. Holiness as both constraint and survival strategy during the crack era The world of Southern Baptist school culture colliding with black identity Racial Identity, Civil Rights Memory, and Family Formation Annual watching of Eyes on the Prize as civic and spiritual ritual. Leaving school to attend MLK Day celebrations: "I dare you to say something about it." Roots, Alex Haley, and early consciousness of black struggle and survival State violence, trauma, and theological turning point March 1999 police assault: physical and sexual violence during a "weapons search." "You can be following Jesus faithfully and still be subjected to violence at the hands of the state." The dissonance of worshiping a crucified Messiah while denying contemporary crucifixions Youth in his ministry revealing they didn't tell him because "we didn't think the church would do anything." Call to ministry, theological awakening, and training Exposure to church history, patristics, Thomas Merton, and MLK Jr. Grant Wacker inviting him to Duke; scholarship leading to seminary training Influence of black theologians and faculty shaping his justice imagination Meeting Eugene Rivers and the birth of a vocation in violence reduction and organizing Ferguson, activism, and the crisis of Christian witness Returning from Cape Town when Mike Brown was killed; sudden call to St. Louis Tear gas, militarized police, and "the ugly underside of the American law enforcement apparatus." "Our marriages didn't survive that era." Ferguson as exposure of the divide within the American church: respectability politics, sexuality panic, racial division "People are being discipled into racism … into militarism … into economic exploitation." Political polarization and Christian Nationalism 2016–present: Trumpism as a carrier of a broader reactionary Christian political project. Concern for Christian authoritarianism masquerading as religious fidelity. "You should definitely live out your convictions… but that don't mean you should kill everybody else on your hill." Deep grief over the church's inability to discern the danger George Floyd, red lines, and the urgency of now Summer 2020 as national smelling salt: "the banality and the violence of this state." The ceiling on empathy in American evangelicalism Targeted universalism and the need for differentiated strategies for shared goals Wealth inequality, homelessness, hunger, and the moral failure of Christianized politics "I hope that feeding the hungry clothing the naked healing the sick is not something… Christians identify as leftist." Participatory democracy as spiritual stewardship The Trinity as a model of unity-with-difference Holiness as public witness: protecting bodies and souls A charge to oppose Christian nationalism and join justice-infused faithfulness Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment Magazine and Fuller Seminary.  

Welcome to a new season of the Create Space Podcast! Join Nate, Courtney, and Evan as they intro a new season and discuss two different types of hope. We get heavy right off the bat this season!

WE HIGHLIGHT NEW ORGANIZATIONS EVERY MONTH ON THE FIRST AND THIRD MONDAYSTo Support Doing Good: https://bit.ly/DoingGoodDonateCommunity First: Participatory Justice in ActionIn this episode, Dr. Rolanda Lister and Shawna Clay join host Megan McInnis to explore how community-led solutions are transforming maternal health, housing, and economic mobility in Nashville's 37208. Dr. Lister shares how her nonprofit, Bloom, supports postpartum mothers through safe housing and healing, while Shawna explains how participatory grantmaking empowers residents and has funded more than 49 grassroots projects. Together, they show what's possible when a community refuses to let its neighbors fall through the cracks—and chooses to help them bloom.What You'll Learn✅ How homelessness directly impacts maternal and infant health outcomes✅ How the 37208 Fund identifies community-led projects and funds what matters most✅ The transformative impact of affordable housing, wraparound services, and economic mobility for mothersResources & MentionsBloom37208 FundMending HeartsMetro Nashville Arts CommissionConnect with UsWebsite: Doing GoodSocial Media: All LinksBlog: Featured OrganizationSupport the show: Donate Here

What if the past isn't fixed, but constantly regenerated to explain the present? What if reality operates like a vast computation, maintaining coherence moment by moment, and your consciousness is part of that calculation?In this episode, we explore a radical framework drawn from chaos magic, synchronicity, and quantum weirdness: reality as a participatory process where coherence matters, observation shapes outcomes, and every conscious being gets a vote in what becomes real.Starting with Jung's golden scarab moment, we dive into territory that challenges everything you think you know about causality, time, and the relationship between consciousness and matter. This isn't science, it's a lens. A working model. A tool for navigation.We'll explore:- Why reality might be computing itself into existence right now- How your internal coherence affects external circumstances- The relationship between synchronicity and signal clarity- What chaos magicians understand about belief as technology- Why treating the universe as participatory changes everything, whether it's literally true or notFor consciousness explorers, reality hackers, and anyone curious about the fluid architecture beneath everyday experience.Your consciousness is part of the calculation. Your coherence affects the outcome. Welcome to the game you've always been playing.Join the telegram group for new episodes and more updates: https://t.me/+QgtZiyv8tVlmNGJl

Follow Rashid Mushkani on LinkedIn and check out his website!Follow us on Instagram and on X!Created by SOUR, this podcast is part of the studio's "Future of X,Y,Z" research, where the collaborative discussion outcomes serve as the base for the futuristic concepts built in line with the studio's mission of solving urban, social and environmental problems through intelligent designs.Make sure to visit our website and subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or Google Podcasts so you never miss an episode. If you found value in this show, we would appreciate it if you could head over to iTunes to rate and leave a review – or you can simply tell your friends about the show!Don't forget to join us next week for another episode. Thank you for listening!

Something is coming: https://lectern.johnvervaeke.com/p/whatnext   What if mastery isn't about perfection—but about transformation? In this episode of The Lectern, John Vervaeke is joined by Ethan Hsieh to explore how the cultivation of virtuosity—typically associated with the arts—can become central to philosophical and existential growth. Ethan introduces his Tiamat process, a three-tier developmental framework integrating performance training, cognitive science, and dialogical practice. Together, they explore what it means to live a deliberately developmental life, moving beyond therapy into embodied transformation. Ethan draws from his background in acting, pedagogy, and philosophy to offer a new model of self-cultivation rooted in agency, feedback, metacognition, and trust. Ethan Hsieh is a facilitator, educator, and philosophical practitioner whose work bridges performance, cognition, and transformative pedagogy. As the creator of the Tiamat process, he integrates insights from embodied practice, developmental psychology, and dialogical philosophy to help individuals cultivate virtuosity as a way of life. Ethan is also a co-founder of Five to Midnight, a community of practice that fosters relational, developmental growth through shared inquiry. Learn more: http://5tomidnight.org - 00:00 – Opening and intentions 03:00 – Ethan's background in theater and philosophy 07:30 – What is Tiamat? Three-tiered developmental model 11:00 – Mapping metacognition through embodied practice 14:00 – Why “meta-maps” matter 17:00 – Habituation and interrupting automaticity 20:00 – Tiamat vs traditional therapy 24:00 – Participatory transformation and co-regulation 29:00 – Why agency must be distributed 1:00:00 – Where transformation lives: tier two dynamics 1:05:00 – Closing reflections - Tiamat Process – Ethan's developmental model blending performance, cognition, and feedback Meta Maps – Tools for mapping metacognition and lived experience Postures of Presence – Ethan's term for enacted, relational awareness Five to Midnight – Ethan's practice-based community: http://5tomidnight.org Deliberately Developmental Civilization – Concept by Ken Wilber & Dustin Dene Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK) – Metatheoretical cognitive framework: https://unifiedtheoryofknowledge.org - Ideas, People, and Works Mentioned: Tiamat process Virtuosity and virtue Meta maps and metacognition Postures of presence Embodied transformation Relational ontology Distributed agency Participatory knowing Deliberately developmental civilization Complexification and growth Therapy vs. transformative practice Feedback and co-regulation Performance and philosophy Five to Midnight Unified Theory of Knowledge (UTOK) Ken Wilber Dustin Dene John Vervaeke - Follow John Vervaeke: https://johnvervaeke.com https://twitter.com/DrJohnVervaeke https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke https://www.patreon.com/johnvervaeke

A Note from JamesI've always loved books where a journalist gets so deep into a subculture that they become part of it. Magic Is Dead by Ian Frisch is one of those. He starts out covering a secret society of magicians—“The 52,” named for the cards in a deck—and ends up becoming one of them.It reminded me of other favorites like Word Freak (Scrabble), The Game (pickup artists), and Moonwalking with Einstein (memory champions). I love that genre of participation—when curiosity turns into obsession and then into mastery.Ian's journey pulled me right in. He didn't just report on the world of magicians; he lived in it, practiced card tricks until his hands hurt, and learned how obsession, storytelling, and performance shape every great craft. Talking to him made me think about how every one of us could benefit from being part of more than one “world”—to have different lives, different subcultures where we're known and respected for something unique. That's real diversification. Not just financial, but personal.Episode DescriptionIn this episode, James talks with journalist and author Ian Frisch about his book Magic Is Dead: My Journey into the World's Most Secretive Society of Magicians and what it means to go all-in on obsession.They explore the underground network of modern magicians reinventing the art for the social-media age—tattoos, streetwear, viral videos, and all—and what these creative subcultures can teach the rest of us about mastery, storytelling, and risk.It's a conversation about transformation: how curiosity becomes discipline, and how the principles behind sleight of hand apply to persuasion, business, and everyday life.What You'll LearnWhy obsession—not balance—is often the key to getting great at somethingHow social media reshaped the art and culture of modern magicThe real psychology behind deception, storytelling, and human connectionHow magicians build trust with skeptical audiences (and what leaders can learn from it)Why belonging to multiple “worlds” or subcultures creates resilience and happinessTimestamped Chapters[00:00] Introduction — Obsession as a superpower [03:00] A Note from James — The journalist who became a magician [06:00] Participatory journalism and the power of total immersion [10:00] What makes this genre work: transformation and obsession [11:30] Discovering the new generation of social-media magicians [14:00] From top hats to tattoos: how magic reinvented itself online [18:30] The challenge of trust when magic meets video editing [20:30] The return of live magic and the human reaction [23:30] Subcultures, hierarchies, and belonging [26:00] Magic as a social tool for outsiders [29:00] How magicians train for a decade to master their craft [37:00] Ian's own training: learning sleight of hand as an adult [40:00] The poker connection and card control secrets [44:00] Why mystery matters more than the trick itself [47:00] Storytelling, psychology, and reading people [52:00] Applying magician skills to real-world persuasion [54:00] Comedy, showmanship, and performance overlap [55:30] The secret societies of magic and “The 52” [58:30] Competition, creativity, and the economics of exclusivity [01:00:40] How Ian earned his place as the “Two of Clubs” [01:03:00] Inventing a new trick and becoming part of the storyAdditional ResourcesMagic Is Dead: My Journey into the World's Most Secretive Society of Magicians by Ian FrischIan Frisch's WebsiteRelated titles discussed:Word Freak by Stefan FatsisMoonwalking with Einstein by Joshua FoerThe Game by Neil StraussThe Biggest Bluff by Maria KonnikovaMentioned magicians:Chris RamsayDaniel MadisonLaura LondonDoug McKenzieSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What happens when funders shift decision-making powers to communities? Farra Trompeter is joined by Cynthia Gibson, PhD, principal of Cynthesis Consulting, and Kelley Buhles, independent consultant and owner of Buhles Consulting, to discuss participatory grantmaking and explore how sharing decision-making power with communities fosters stronger, more democratic philanthropy. They also outline the steps nonprofits and funders can take to initiate this approach.

In his book "Postmodern Pilgrims," Dr. Leonard Sweet offers a vision for the 21st century church that engages both the church's traditions and its need for innovation. He calls for a faith that is both ancient and future, historical and contemporary. While he reminds us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), he wonders how the church, the body of Christ, can give a compelling and imaginative witness to Jesus today. In this sermon series, we will explore what Sweet calls the "EPIC" church: Experiential, Participatory, Imagistic, and Communal."For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ."  –1 Corinthians 12:12-26 Sunday service times are 9 a.m., 11 a.m., and 4 p.m. at the Mission Campus in Prairie Village, Kansas, and 10 a.m. at the Antioch Campus in Overland Park, Kansas. If you are unable to attend in person, you can worship online at villagepres.org/online. Support the showContact Village Presbyterian Churchvillagepres.orgcommunications@villagepres.org913-262-4200Have a prayer request? pastoral-care@villagepres.orgFacebook @villagepresInstagram @villagepreschurchYouTube @villagepresbyterianchurchTo join in the mission and ministry of Village Church, go to villagepres.org/giving

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In his book "Postmodern Pilgrims," Dr. Leonard Sweet offers a vision for the 21st century church that engages both the church's traditions and its need for innovation. He calls for a faith that is both ancient and future, historical and contemporary. While he reminds us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), he wonders how the church, the body of Christ, can give a compelling and imaginative witness to Jesus today. In this sermon series, we will explore what Sweet calls the "EPIC" church: Experiential, Participatory, Imagistic, and Communal. Support the showContact Village Presbyterian Churchvillagepres.orgcommunications@villagepres.org913-262-4200Have a prayer request? pastoral-care@villagepres.orgFacebook @villagepresInstagram @villagepreschurchYouTube @villagepresbyterianchurchTo join in the mission and ministry of Village Church, go to villagepres.org/giving

In his book "Postmodern Pilgrims," Dr. Leonard Sweet offers a vision for the 21st century church that engages both the church's traditions and its need for innovation. He calls for a faith that is both ancient and future, historical and contemporary. While he reminds us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), he wonders how the church, the body of Christ, can give a compelling and imaginative witness to Jesus today. In this sermon series, we will explore what Sweet calls the "EPIC" church: Experiential, Participatory, Imagistic, and Communal. Support the showContact Village Presbyterian Churchvillagepres.orgcommunications@villagepres.org913-262-4200Have a prayer request? pastoral-care@villagepres.orgFacebook @villagepresInstagram @villagepreschurchYouTube @villagepresbyterianchurchTo join in the mission and ministry of Village Church, go to villagepres.org/giving

In his book "Postmodern Pilgrims," Dr. Leonard Sweet offers a vision for the 21st century church that engages both the church's traditions and its need for innovation. He calls for a faith that is both ancient and future, historical and contemporary. While he reminds us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8), he wonders how the church, the body of Christ, can give a compelling and imaginative witness to Jesus today. In this sermon series, we will explore what Sweet calls the "EPIC" church: Experiential, Participatory, Imagistic, and Communal. Support the showContact Village Presbyterian Churchvillagepres.orgcommunications@villagepres.org913-262-4200Have a prayer request? pastoral-care@villagepres.orgFacebook @villagepresInstagram @villagepreschurchYouTube @villagepresbyterianchurchTo join in the mission and ministry of Village Church, go to villagepres.org/giving

This is a rerelease of a previous episode. In response to a listener question, Derek, Matt, and Alastair go deep on the doctrine of creation. They ask and answer questions about whether creation is real, what counts as worship, what makes a doctrine of creation thick or thin, and whether we need to be thinking about God at all times.  Timestamps: On the Excitement Meter [0:00] Wherein Lies the Deepness? [2:13] Reality and Goodness [10:30] Participatory vs. Intrinsic Value [14:12] A Dim Reflection [15:53] Curiositas [18:57] Not Everything Is Worship [22:39] Children of the Earth [40:44]

The future of Disease Care medicine is described as Predictive, Preventive, Personalized, Participatory, and Precision.  But as we first started to discuss on last week's show, Dr. Prather says all of those elements are already available in Structure-Function Health Care.  In this episode, we talk about:—How two patients diagnosed with the same Cancer can have different underlying causes for the same Disease. —The importance of getting to the root cause of an issue in Structure-Function Health Care, while Disease Care focuses on symptoms. —Why Dr. Prather actually cautions his patients against doing parasite cleanses or a Liver flush on their own.  And the gentle approach he utilizes instead. —The critical aspect of patient participation for Structure-Function Care to work, as the doctor and patient have to "work together."—How patients who understand their health condition actually report less pain and discomfort.  And why Dr. Prather always makes sure a patient receives a copy their lab tests with his own notes showing the numbers they are trying to achieve.—The features of Homeopathic Medicine that were actually copied by the pharmaceutical industry and even "led the way" in many of changes made by pharmaceutical companies. —Why both the diagnostics and treatments in Dr. Prather's office all focus on precision to target exactly what the patient needs.  And why the "normal" ranges listed on lab tests are not the "ideal" ranges you actually need for good health. —How Dr. Prather describes Disease Care like a football team's offense, while Structure-Function Care is a team's defense.  And how "defense wins championships".—Why using Structure-Function Health Care as primary care can improve outcomes by 85% and can also solve America's National debt.—The number one thing Dr. Prather would change in how medicine is practiced today. http://www.TheVoiceOfHealthRadio.com

This episode of Buddhist Geeks features a candid and heartfelt conversation between Vince Fakhoury Horn and Tasshin Fogleman about Palestine, the TPOT subculture, and what it means to embody true Bodhisattvahood. They explore the limitations of online discourse, especially around contentious issues, and reflect on the importance of good-faith dialogue, friendship, and spiritual integrity in times of crisis.Join Vince Fakhoury Horn and Brian Newman outside of Lisbon, Portugal at the beginning of 2026 for a 10-day intensive jhāna retreat. There, we'll be exploring The Flavors of Jhāna.Episode TranscriptVince:Hey Tasshin.Tasshin:Hi Vince.We just talked before I hit record. We just talked still. It's like formally. Hi. Hi. Tasshin: We're here. Vince: Yeah, exactly. That's good to see you. Tasshin: Yeah, good to see you too, brother. Yeah. Vince: Yeah, man, I appreciate you being willing to I invited you to have this conversation on X or my favorite platform to hate, Tasshin:My favorite platform to love.Vince: Great. I was there with you for a while, but yeah, it's getting a little weird. It's it's getting a little Faschy, X but we'll probably talk about that. So I propose that we talk about, this was the theme I proposed to you, which is Palestine, TPOT, and True Bodhisattvahood.. And it's, I guess in response to a lot of frustrated, angry, maybe righteous and not in a necessarily, in all bad sense. But yeah, in some posts that I've been sharing on X since I don't know it's been ongoing since the October 7th in my case. So I guess I wanted to explore that with you because I consider you to be one of my friends in the TPOT subculture, which we can get into and talk about what that actually is, Uhhuh because it's pretty, and it's it's vagueish, but, or decentralized at least.But it seems like you're well respected in this decentralized subculture and I think I'm part of that as well, but I seem to be taking a very different role from you and how I relate to it, which is a little bit more critical and Challenging and, I haven't found that's really endeared me to many people in the community.But some people like yourself have engaged with my critiques in what feels like a good faith way, and I've really appreciated that. So I thought, it'd be cool to have a, an even more personal conversation where people could see potentially if we decide to release any of this.And I don't know, just the human side of this, which doesn't come across often in 280 characters. Tasshin: Yeah. I appreciate all that context. I think that's really helpful and I think it's good to have a conversation about this. I think that I've been really struck by your perspectives on this and in general, I really value your perspectives and your opinions about the path and about practice and, we've had a number of disagreements over the years, but I've always walked away, like really learning a lot. And yeah, I do try to engage in good faith and I think especially one of the practices I have just for any kind of conflict in general is if I feel like text-based mediums especially can only hold so much.I don't even like to discourse or disagree on Twitter. I use it for other things and it's hey, if I'm, I've said this to you before, if we have a disagreement, let's get on a call and actually talk about it. And because it's just, you can actually hear the other person's perspective and where they're coming from in a way that text just really doesn't afford.So I'm glad we're talking about this. Yeah, I think it's great. Yeah. Vince: And the downside of doing that without recording it and sharing it back, because of course then it's just like a private thing that happens Right, and doesn't necessarily filter out in the same way to the collective. Tasshin: Totally. Totally.SoVince: This is cool. Yeah. Thank you. Tasshin: Do you have any suggestions for where you'd like to start or what feels like a good starting place?Vince: I would be curious to see your take on what TPOT is or how you'd describe that phenomena. I did spend a little bit of time reflecting on it, and I came up with a little, like micro definition, but I don't think it's exhaustive this a starting point.But I'm curious even before sharing that, if there's anything, thoughts on TPOT and what it is, if you've thought, have you meditated on that? How do you can, Tasshin: yeah. I love that and I'm so curious what your definition will be. I suspect it'll be spicier than mine, but I liked what you said earlier about it being a decentralized community.because I, I felt a little bit of trepidation before this conversation for really all three of the things you want to talk about. I feel like, so woefully inexpert in and I really don't know as much as I ought to about the war, and I don't know as much. I, I don't know. I'm not, I'm in TPOT certainly, but I'm not, there's no elected four figure leader or something.It's decentralized, as you said. And then also at the Bodhisattva path, I'm like still figuring it out very right. As we all are so right. But yeah, TPOT, I think for me it's very much about specific people, like their specific friends that I've cultivated very deep friendships with, that I've met through Twitter, and developed those relationships through Twitter and their, I think some of my closest friends at this point are people I've met through Twitter and they're friendships that I treasure and I think it is decentralized.I think it's. Spread throughout the world at this point. Like I can go to any major city and meet people who are connected to this network. And I, like my friend Andrew Rose has been talking about it recently as the network where it's yeah, it's not really about Twitter anymore. And it's not really, it's a larger cloud of people that are connected and I think it's not necessarily ideologically on the same page, like people having the same perspectives or even shared practices.There might be shared interests and common overlaps, but I think people have very different perspectives on the world. And it's more, if anything, I'd say it's like a developmental similarity where, for me at least, it really helped me to, I started to enter TPOT. I could go into detail, but as I was individuating from being at the monastery for many years and it's I mean it from a developmental perspective, it helped me jump from three to four in the Keegan stages where it's like I was in a tribal state of mind identified with the maple ideology and worldview and practices, which was great for me at the time. It really was. And then it's, it stopped being great for me and I had to find a new way and being with so many weirdos from around the world who saw things so differently really helped me to find my own way and find my own life. So I feel a sense of connection and intimacy with it, and like indebtedness to it, where it's these are my people and a help that helped me to find myself in the world.Yeah, that's what TPOT is to me at least. Vince: I like what you're saying about the developmental part. I guess I see the phenomena similarly like this is something that. There's a lot of people coming together, not, like you said, around a particular ideology or like framework.Which is very common. Like a bunch of people come together on a specific book or teacher or teaching or whatever. This is different because there are teachers and teachings that are, you see commonly in that community. But it's pretty broad. Yeah. Tasshin: And you don't have to buy into any of them.I think there are major, if anything there's like themes, like non coercion is a big one or Right. And people bring their own interests and you don't have to be interested in the same things other people are interested in. Vince: But there's something, if you put all those themes together, you'd start to see like broader theme of Absolutely.Yeah. The connection there. Yeah. Which I think you're totally right. It's, there's something maybe developmental underneath that. I was thinking about the book, The Postmodern Condition. Which David Chapman originally recommended to me. He's one of the, he's a TPOT Philosopher.Maybe he wouldn't he probably reject that phrase term, but he is a philosopher and well respected in that space. Tasshin: Sure. Vince:And I remember the the author Jean-François Lyotard, he said, simplifying to the extreme, “I define postmodern as incredulity toward meta narratives.”And I find there's something very postmodern about this community where there's a kind of general skepticism toward meta-narratives, of thinking that like one way of describing reality could be totally comprehensive and true for everyone, everywhere, all the time.And I see that as one of the things I really appreciate about TPOT. In terms of it representing a move out of like the modern condition, which was much more like about trying to find the right ideology and all these clashing Isms, Communism versus Capitalism versus all these kind of clashing religions.Who's got the best, which framework is going to come out on top, and everyone's going to eventually believe it's like some, I see that as the more of the modern condition. And so in that sense it feels like a real relief, to see communities, that are forming around.Around this. And it, I guess that's the reason for me, I always connect my experience of coming up in the integral community, Ken Wilber's community with TPOT because it felt like a very similar kind of vibe there. Where so many people I met were just doing radically different kinds of things.And, there'd be someone who's super into, like spiritual surrender, the lineage of Adi da, who is also like a concert pianist that I'm literally describing an actual person I worked with. And then someone else would be like, super into video production and have no interest in spiritual practice or meditation, but they have a lot of interest in like psychological work.And yeah, I guess that's something I've seen is consistent with the TPOT world. Is this sort of like postmodern incredulity towards meta narratives?Tasshin: How would that fit with it being I've never really understood this, but would you describe TPOT as meta-modern, or not meta-modern.Vince: I guess for me, I would say the center of gravity of TPOT seems to be in the transition between modern to postmodern. Like that I would call that post rational. Because the main mode of modernity is rational individualism. It's this is Ken Wilber's and Jean Gebser's take, but I find that to be true.So people like are questioning the limits of rationality and model making are post rational. I see, and I think as a result they're postmodern. But there's a transition, it's like there's a awkward developmental phase where you're letting go of, the absoluteness of models and you can ken Wilber called it the “performance contradiction.” He said, you can you can absolutize that too, or you can say everything is relative. That statement isn't a relative statement, it's an absolute statement. All perspectives are valid. Okay. That perspective you're saying is more valid than any other perspective, which says that certain perspectives are more valid than others. And so like the whole idea of postmodernity rests on a performance contradiction. That's, or at least the early stages of it where you're deconstructing that mo deconstructive, postmodernism Robert Kegan, would call it.He also has a reconstructive postmodern phase. I don't think TPOT is in the reconstructive postmodern phase, but I think some people in it are. It's like there's a spectrum, within, there's a center of gravity, but there's a spectrum. As well or more, it's like a scatter graph, Uhhuh, where like most of the dots are in the center around this sort of modern to postmodern transition, but then there's like trailing off in both directions.You'll see some people that are more traditional that are there just treating it like a group. I'm sure you saw that probably at Vibe Camp. Probably some people there that are just like. Just drinking the Kool-Aid and don't really, aren't really, maybe vibing in the same way as everyone else.Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: And then you find some weird people too that are like aliens even within the space. Who seem to be like a David Chapman I mentioned. He seems like a, an alien to me. Tasshin: An example, Vince: I think he's talking, I think he's a meta-modern Tasshin: thinker.Vince: I don't know.So I, I see a mix, but I mostly see people in the Yeah. Like early postmodern stage, Tasshin: I recently saw a really nice tweet from Mechanical Monk where, which I can link you to later, but he drew this diagram or made like a video of what TPOT is, and he was arguing that like TPOT is a moving target where like i'm thinking of these people. And then you're thinking of these people and there's some overlap, like you and I are both friends with, like Daniel Thorson for example, or. Some other people that we'd have in common, or I know who David Chapman is or whatever. And so there, there's enough overlap that we could be like, oh, we're both pointing at TPOT, but then you don't know some people that I'm pointing to and I don't know some people you're pointing to.And then eventually this is happening more and more. Or people use the acronym TPOT and you're like, I've never seen you. I don't know who you're talking about, and I don't know what you're describing. I think you and I have enough of a shared sense of the thing, but yeah, I thought that was a really good point, that it's not like a homogenous group.Like it has a no, no one likes, this is a very probably like post rat thing to do. Nobody likes labeling it. So it's everyone's unhappy with the term TPOT. Nobody wants to identify as TPOT or as a post rat or whatever. Even the term, Vince: I mean in the phrase the acronym TPOT itself isTasshin: relative and it's like relational.Vince: This part of Twitter. Yeah, no, you're saying it's like a network and I see that. There was a site for a while, I don't know if you saw it, where you could like, you could see the sort of it was like a ranking or listing of the most sort of central, I do remember that inside of a network, it was like the tea, you could pull up TPOT and see a list.I was like, I'm on that list. Which I would, which I would take myself, I would opt out of that list if I could choose to. But it's not a choice as you're part of this network.Tasshin: Yeah. If you know the acronym ar arguably you are in it. It's just once and.Vince: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So what I hear you saying from like the network perspective is like you, you see it from your point of view of the network. And the network is evolving, it's not static. It continues to grow and change and shift. That's right. So your view of it is changing and shifting with the network.That's right. So you both, you have both a limited view and it of something that's changing. That seems true to me. Which doesn't mean we can't talk about it. Or try to, come up with something useful to say about it. I would describe it this way. I'll tell you how I would describe it.Yeah. Yeah. Let's hear it. Oh boy. I'm not so sure about the last part. No, it's not that bad. So I describe TPOT as a weird, and here I'm using the weird acronym, Western educated, industrialized rich and democratic post rational subculture that's connected by shared interest in self-agency and awareness.Tasshin: That seems good. Something that's popping out to me is just also how much of this is specifically enabled by the internet and Twitter in particular, or I think there's something starting to happen that you could call like a Twitter like Blue Sky is a Twitter or Mastodon is a Twitter. I hope we have other Twitter likes in the future.because as you said, X is becoming fahy. Or to me, the thing that a Twitter is very much like a public library, and then Twitter happens to be a company and it's that has skewed incentives and stuff like that. But any case I'm like, yeah that all, everything you said tracks and then it's I think it is meaningfully enabled by technology, right?And whatever a Twitter like is in particular. Vince: Okay. Yeah. That's good. So that's missing in my description here. I agree. It's enabled by that and there's something too like it. The tech, the technology itself is very postmodern. These platforms and microblogging platforms, like you're getting these really tiny little snippets that are largely decontextualized.And you're just seeing a bunch of decontextualized atomized information flowing constantly through your stream without, you have to put the context together. That's right. The platform itself does not do that. In fact, it, if you're not, if you don't have the capability to do that, it might actually be really problematic because That's Tasshin: true.Vince: Yeah. You don't know. So I'd say it's almost perfectly compliments the subculture, the design of it.Tasshin: That's true. And it makes sense of like why you would feel a resonance with, I wasn't in this myself, but from what I imagine the integral community and then also why that would be different of I imagine Twitter wasn't a huge part of that back then because it, I don't even know what the were, but wasn it wasn't even, it Vince: wasn't, no, Twitter launched the year after I left the Integral Institute. So yeah. It wasn't part of that blogging and podcast or very early, like web two was part of it for sure.But it was primarily an in-person community. It was centered. It was like centered in person and then had a sort of one to many kind of broadcast media kind of web 2.0 media thing to it. So it did look a lot different than that. It occurs Tasshin: to me that, at least in my experience, the technology feels really central to the thing.And the properties you named are almost like emergent or like the kinds of people that would resonate with it or something, or be able to make full use of it or Right. What have you. But it doesn't seem intrinsically necessary, but it does seem to me almost, like that if you have a Twitter, like something like this subculture would arise and I could see different, similar subcultures that had different properties or even an ideology or like different developmental stages or something.But I think that a Twitter is really good at clustering people who can vibe together or relate to each other and in a way that's more emergent. I think a lot about individualism and collectivism and I think that this kind of technology affords the possibility of yeah, basically a Hegelian synthesis of individualism and collectivism where each person can be their own individual, but also be in community with a larger network that respects their individuality, but can coordinate as a whole and.I think Twitter likes uniquely make that possible. And I could see ones that were like clusters that were meaningfully different. You'll see sometimes people talk about this, they're like, maybe there's a whole other cluster that's not connected to us at all that we have no idea about. Almost the I forget what the alien version of that is, but like the likelihood that there's an alien is civilization in any given solar system.It's maybe they're out there. Who knows. Vince: Something like, like the Drake equation would describe the Drake equation, how likely that would be. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. You're using the term Twitter. I don't know if we've talked about this, but I will explicitly not use that term anymore to refer to X, mainly because I think people are confusing the term Twitter with the term microblogging. Huh? Since it was the original Microblogging platform, I think a lot of times we conflate Twitter with Microblogging. And so when you say Twitter, like I, that's another way to me of saying Microblogging.What's Tasshin: important to you there? Vince: It's important to me to stop being so sentimental about Twitter because Twitter's dead and whatever that it was, is gone. But Microblogging is alive and well and it's probably doing better now than when Twitter was alive. So I think it's somehow by being sent sentimental Twitter, we mask our ability to perceive what's happening in broader terms with microblogging. And we potentially overlook a lot of nasty shit happening on X.com as well by doing that. Tasshin: I see. Yeah I tend to use the word Twitter for different, maybe sentimental reasons as you're saying, but it's an intentional use on my term. On my part. And maybe I'll just use the word Twitter and you can use the word X and we can Vince: Yeah, no, it's fine.Proceed accordingly. It's No, it's fine. I just wanted to point that out. Very good. That's a difference in frames. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. This has been very conceptual so far, but I'm curious to bring it a little downward too, because I remember maybe it was like a week after October 7th Hamas attacked civilians in Israel and.I knew from my own experience having grown up in a, as a Palestinian and American household and having watched this to some degree play out over 40 plus years, 40 years at the time that I was like the blow back from this is gonna be 10 x at least. Because that's consistent. Throughout time it's always Israel will respond with 10 times the amount of violent force at least. And so I was like, if you take the numbers, I was like, that's. That's catastrophic. That's gonna be terrible. And so I knew within the first week, and I shared this on X, that this is going to be a genocide.And so for me, this is the perspective I'm coming from is like I've known that a genocide has been going on for, from the beginning. Have known that the intention or that the likely the likely response was gonna be genocidal. And I think there's a lot of debate about whether or not this is I think that debate is now totally foolish from my point of view.You frame this for instance, as a war, I would call it a genocide. I would say the genocide rather than the war. Or the occupation, which more, more accurate description. because a war assumes that there's two countries, two sides that are equivalent and they're at war.But this is rather like a group of people who've been dispossessed and occupied for decades. Who wrongly lashed out and hurt civilians. But who did so from the point of view of being in a one up, one down power position? So like the group of people or Palestinian people, had been occupied, their movements are controlled.Things coming in and out of Gaza were controlled in terms of water, food, et cetera. Many people described it as an open air prison. Including a colleague of mine who lives in Tel Aviv. He described it that way to me one time. And so from my point of view, it's a lot of times people don't understand when they enter into this, the history of this, that just the basic history of occupation.And so to frame it as a conflict between two equals is a, in a way obscures the power. Dynamics at play where, one group has so much more power over the other and has so much more are literally like nuclear power that's backed by the most powerful military in the world. Who has a lock on the un Tasshin: In Vince: terms of our ability to veto the Americans. So it's David and Goliath rather than, two superpowers going to war. So that's one thing I'll just share is just the frame for me of Palestine. And so I'm, I've been seeing it that from the very beginning.And what I've found with, on, on platforms like X and with the community of TPOT is. Just this sort of maddening silence. Or this sort of schizo, in my experience is like a schizophrenic feed, where on the one hand I'm seeing Palestinian activists and intellectuals and people who are I think doing good work at bringing awareness to an ongoing livestream, genocide.And then an another group of folks more in the TPOT space who are kind of sharing their psychotic explorations and talking about their cool practices and giving, challenging takes and all of which has this other very different vibe which is much more self-focused. And and the two of them in contrast really, that's, for me, that's my, that, that's the tension I'm existing in.And I can totally relate to the self. Absorbed interest in my own transformation and wanting to play around. And it, I totally get that because that's where I've been. Like that's my background as well. But it's, yeah, it's maddening to see these two side by side. And I feel like there's so much missed opportunity with TPOT given that it's so influential right now in culture, in our mainstream culture.And so I guess I, I'm saddened by the fact that I don't see that community having really come around to care much about what's happening in these kind of global situations. Like you, you talked about individualism and collectivism. I feel like it's way more skewed toward individualism in the TPOT world than it is collectivism.So I, that's actually a criticism I'd have. I don't feel like they're both ending it at all. But. Anyway. Yeah, that's just a little bit where I'm coming from,Tasshin: I hear you. Just first off, really mourning and grieving the plate of the Palestinian people that's happening and feeling personally connected to that because of your family and watching the news very closely and really actively grieving that, of just the evil that's happening and caring about that and wanting to see that change and end, and seeing that as a genocide, not as a war.And really appreciating people who are speaking up and being vocal about it and trying to work for change to resolve that crisis and. It feeling used the word like schizophrenic to see TPOT, which seems like self-absorbed and individualistic, where it's like people are talking about whatever they're on about, and it's I got this metaphor hearing you talk about it, of someone who's starving, who's like incredibly hungry, and then they're like next to some rich people who are like having like coffee and talking about, some obstru philosophy and you're like, I'm starving.Can you please give me some of your food? There I'm having a real problem here and you're talking about this stuff that really doesn't matter. And yeah, that being really painful and then also a care about you're like, yeah, TPOTs incredibly powerful and culturally powerful and why aren't you talking about this?You should be talking about this so that we can use your power for good and change the world in that way. Vince: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's a naive of me to expect that in some way. So this is where I get a little, this is where I feel the bind. It's on the one hand I intellectually get if this really is developmental as we're describing if this cultural phenomena has a developmental dimension to it, then why would I expect the bulk majority of people who are, coming out of individual rationalism to be focused on anything other than that kind of things are related to that.Who would be well Tasshin: positioned to make a change that had positive effect in the world from a developmental perspective? Vince: That's a good question. I guess anyone could. So maybe the issue isn't the underlying development, but it's the culture, the cultural expression of that. In this case, it's, WEIRD is, I think a good way of putting it, white sorry, Western, but those two are connected, educated, industrialized, rich, and democratic.It feels like a lot of what you're saying is true because we're, we are in this WEIRD culture in the US largely, especially the educated TPOT, whole US is not WEIRD. A lot of, there's a lot of uneducated people and people without access to resources, but but we're having this weird conversation.And meanwhile in the global Commons, we're like you said, right next to people that are posting videos constantly of people being, shot and killed and assassinated executed, like right there, children starving, et cetera. And it's it, this is the critique that Postmodernism has had for a long time of modernity.It's like the colonialist thing. It's like how is it that we have so much privilege to be able to have these conversations in the first place, because we ourselves are living on dispossessed land. Like we ourselves dispossessed the Native Americans to be able to be here, we ourselves brought African slaves from Africa to be able to take care of our cotton mills and our run our agricultural industry.And so we ourselves built a country on those very foundations and we ourselves as Western people escaped persecution in Europe. Our whole history of escaping persecution and then bringing it with us is what's happening with Israel and Palestine, from my point of view, it's the same basic pattern.I think it's hard to see that when you're focused on you Tasshin: On Vince: your individual journey of transformation and without being able to zoom out into these broader collective patterns that are shaping you as much as you are shaping yourself. And I wonder if sometimes, like we overestimate our agency, or we over-index on our agency in this community. That'd be my, I guess my question or challenge to folks. Tasshin: Can you say more about that? The over-indexing on agency? What you mean by that? Vince: Yeah, so like for me the synthesis of the agency, of agency and communion is what I'm most, most interested in right now.Because that schizophrenic split feels like it's a split of these two, where it's like you have people that are high agency and have lots of opportunity and privilege, and then you have people that have extremely low ability to opt to effectively exercise their agency. They barely can get food. So it's like such a huge contrast there. And what's the difference between these two groups of people? Like historically it's the only reason I'm on this side of the street is because my grandfather was able to get into this country in 1950.And he was lucky, essentially. So like the only difference is basically luck of birth. Like where are you born? And we, I think we take so much credit for the stuff that is, has nothing to do whatsoever with us. It's like when Obama, said you didn't build that and everyone fucking flipped out.You don't know if you remember that he was talking about, I don't know, he was talking about infrastructure and there was a huge backlash from the Right. Like we built that, in hyper American individualism. And it's I think, you know what the genocide and Gaza's taught me is I'm just lucky.I'm just lucky because I have cousins who are in the West Bank right now and they're living in concentration camp type environments. Like they, they're scared to leave their home because people around them are getting shot by settlers and, five Palestinian Americans have died in the West Bank this past year.People who are just going over there to visit family. So it's extremely bad right now, even in the West Bank, which is considered to be the more stable of the two Palestinian regions. In Gaza, I have two family members here in North Carolina and Asheville that are mar married into my family. So they're not direct family members, but their spouses, and they both have lost over 200 family members in Gaza. Which is hard for people even in the West to understand, because they don't, we don't come from big families like that where you could even imagine having 200 family members.But yeah, like whole family trees are essentially being wiped out. Yes. Are cut down. So it's, to me it's very, because I'm in both worlds. I'm teaching meditation and I'm hearing about, what's going on for my cousin in the West Bank, and I'm hearing about what's happening for other Palestinians that I know.I'm like, this is, it's a very hard tension to hold. So for me, the synthesis of agency and communion is I can recognize, like I have a certain amount of agency in part because of the communal situation. Like we have a community that optimizes for agency. And it optimizes for agency at the at the negative at the expense of many other communities, agency and has historically and even presently, like a lot of.The opportunities we have are because of they've been taken rather than, it's like not an omni win situation. So I feel like there's a lack of kind of acknowledgement of that, that often in part because you start to feel really bad. And if there's anything I've noticed about TPOT is like, people don't want to feel bad.Like people wanna empower each other and raise each other up. And I think there's something beautiful about that. But to me it's come, it comes at the expense of valid criticism, of being open to hearing valid criticism. And that's the kind of, that's, that adds how I felt. I've been res largely, my, my criticisms have been responded to.It's oh yeah, this is, you're just like it's I'm a downer. I'm like, yeah, sorry. It's fucking, it is a downer. It really is. How do you, I know that's general and broad, but how do you respond to something like that?Tasshin: Can you ask a, I there's a lot of thoughts running through my mind. Can you ask a specific question? Vince: I'm just curious what your general Yeah. Sense of that is.Tasshin: First off, my heart hurts. It hurts to know that violence is happening at scale and it hurts to hear that. And I'm okay hurting.I know, I've done a lot of, I, I can feel that, but it hurts and I feel sad and I feel grief knowing about this travesty that's happening. AndI feel that about a lot of things that I know about in the world now, including this. And that's always,yeah. Hard to be with. And I try to learn how to be with that and, i'm grateful for the opportunity to be reminded of what's happening and to be connected to it. I feel a desire to have change occur that feels like it matters. I would like war, genocide, evil violence to end. I'm a pacifist.My, one of the worst days of my life every year is when I pay taxes. I hate paying my taxes, partly because it's annoying bureaucratically, but even more so because I feel like I'm compromising my own ethics by supporting the US military. And that I every year I decide I'm gonna pay my taxes so that I can contribute, continue to be part of this society in a legal and upright way.I'm not morally opposed to taxes as such, but I am morally opposed to what my government does with those taxes, including I don't know the full extent of this. I'm sure you know much more, but certainly being complicit in this war, genocide, violence, murder. Bombing evil. Yeah. And other evils known and unknown.I know that and I've been around a little bit. So that hurts. That's the first and foremost thing. And I feel for you, having family i's just I went through just a couple years ago my mom dying of cancer, and we knew about it four years before she died, three, four years before she died.And she lived a blessed life, and I felt perfectly ready to let her go. And it was still really hard. And it's imagine my family members being murdered at scale and being starving and being oppressed and in all kinds of ways that I can only imagine. It's that my heart would just be breaking on a daily basis.And I feel for you, my friend, going through that and, for the Palestinian people more broadly, such that I'm connected to them and for all who are subject to war. It's just it's just evil. It's just e that, like you, you wanna call it genocide? I'll just call it evil, like it's, I think violence is evil and war is evil and genocide is evil and bombs are evil and guns are evil.And murder is evil and killing children is evil. And it's just, my heart breaks at that. As far as the other specific things you were saying, I'm reminded of a an argument that I've had or witnessed many times where there's kind of two recurring schools of thought in our culture where how do I summarize this? Because I've seen this in a lot of specific instances, and I don't wanna get into the specific instances, but let's take a simple example like say your relative was a Trump supporter, and you personally didn't vote for Trump and don't want Trump to be president. There are people in our culture at this time who would say the thing to do is to be disconnected from that Trump supporter and to never talk to them and to shame them for who they are and or give them radio silence and cut ties.And that's a whole school of thought that applies to many issues. And then there's a school of thought that says how are you gonna change their mind if you don't stay connected to them, if you don't really understand where they're coming from and listen to them and talk to them and share your own perspective.And I tend to be more in the latter school of thought of connection is the basis of change. Actually hearing other people's perspectives, sharing my own, to the extent that it's possible. And you're not. Beating each other up or whatever shooting at each other. But I think being connected to people is the basis of change.And I'm getting here somewhere here with this, which is to me, I hear you saying, I'm not part of TPOT. These are the people that are in TPOT. They're silent, they have these, I don't know, I hear you talking about like collective blind spots, which I think are very valid. I'm glad you're mentioning them, but it's like those people have the blind spot.And this is their problem. And to me I could be wrong, but think, Vince: It's really the Palestinians problem. They're the ones that are suffering for the collective blind spot. They're suffering a lot more. Tasshin: Yes.I think that. You could usefully see yourself as part of TPOT, and that by staying connected to people in TPOT and speaking to them, you can change their minds. I think you've changed my mind about things about this and had an impact on me and had a causal influence on me. And I see you having that impact on a other people.And I think that if you took that perspective, there's more or less efficacious ways of doing that. Ways that, that, that's a question that's come up for me about this is actually about like theories of change. And just one more thing is I was recently in Santa Fe, my dad moved to Santa Fe and when I was there, there's a lot, my dad is like very near the Santa Fe is the capitol, and he is very near the capitol where the government is.And so there's just always protests there like at least once a week. And I get, I personally, me, Tasshin, get so angry at these protestors because I, in my current worldview, think that their theory of change is just shit. They're like, by going to this place and having a sign, I'm gonna change the world. It, to me, I see that is like by and large, incredibly efficacious and not gonna produce the change that they want.And do I know what the theory, what a theory of change is that would produce it? No, but I am spending all of my time and energy on things that I think will have a positive change in the world. Even if they're not enough, even if they're not direct enough, even if they're not gonna end or resolve all the issues I care about, which are many.I am putting all of my time and energy into things that I believe are efficacious. And presumably they think it's efficacious too. They think this is worth doing because they're doing it. And in a way I'm wrong about it because demonstrably people think that holding a sign in front of a capitol is gonna change the world.But, Vince: It does boost their agency when people protest that's, it's an exercise in agency. Tasshin: I do think there's a critical threshold where if enough people protest something, I can't have a change. Obviously that's happened Vince: Arab Spring. Tasshin: Exactly. So it's not, it's definitely not useless. But my point to you as an individual that I care about as my friend, is I think you're actually incredibly well positioned to have a cultural impact on this group that you already are connected to, and that there are more or less efficacious ways of doing that.Like this conversation is efficacious, right? We're having a real conversation between two people who respect each other. We're recording that so that other people can listen. I think that's actually likely to produce the change that you're desiring to some extent. Is it gonna it's hard to say.Vince: It's hard to say. I hear what you're saying. Yeah, I think you and I have talked about this in the past too. I have, some of the biggest changes I've been through have come through people challenging me even violently. And my whole upbringing, as you can hear, it's rooted in violence. Yes. So it's like the story of my family.Is one of resilience in the face of violence, Tasshin: Uhhuh. So this is the recurring thing we always argue about. Yeah. Or one of the several things. Vince: Yeah. It's an, it's like in a place where we rub, I think, but Yeah. But it's understandable. So I'm a little more Okay. Ruffling feathers and even having active conflict with people because I know that sometimes that's actually good.Sometimes if you're too nice, people won't hear you. If you have something powerfully challenging to say, it will just be like, oh yeah, that's nice. And I can just incorporate that into my worldview and feel good about knowing about it, but actually not really be doing anything significantly differently.So it's like a, I don't know, this is in the abstract, but. Tasshin: There's two things there. What there's one is, which is like, how nice are you? And I actually do honestly believe that you would be more efficacious at seeing the changes you want to see, at least in the local community if you were nicer.In addition to being kind. I do think you're kind, that's not an issue. But separately from that, like you, one of the things we talked about recently on the timeline was you're like, I've just been considering blocking people left and right. And I think that Oh, I have been blocking them lost.Exactly. Vince: I've lost half of my friend network in the last year. Tasshin and so that's where I am. So here let me push back a little bit. I lo yeah. I lo I love what you're saying, but I don't think it's my job to do that. I think it's your job to do that, to, to be the one that can be nice and change people's minds on this topic.Tasshin: Oh, that's true. It is my job. You're right. I Vince: agree with you. Yeah, because because I'm too close to it. It's too painful for me. Like people start saying stuff to me. It is like I'm hearing them deny the entire, like truth of my whole identity, my family identity. It's no, like this is true.I'm not, I'm gonna have argue with you like you are dehumanizing me and everyone that's Palestinian right now. Even by having an argument, having even framing this as a debate, is there a war going on? Who's responsible? Et cetera. So it's like what I find is I want to keep talking because I want, it's like the Buddha, he's, and I'm comparing myself to the Buddha here.I know he is gonna fly really well, there, there's an analogy here where he's I'm awake. Okay. Who can I, teach this to, very few are gonna understand it. Because it's subtle and hard to get grasp. My companions, the ones I was practicing with they seem like they'll get it.They have very little dust in their eyes. So I guess I see my role as really more like the people that have very little dust in their eyes. Maybe I can reach them. What's the difference Tasshin: in this case between someone who has dust in their eyes and someone who doesn't, from your perspective?Vince: Are they, yeah. Are they awake to their complicity in a gen, in an active livestream? Genocide? Are they aware? I pay Tasshin: my taxes and, Vince: That's part of it. That's part of it. Yeah. It's like paying taxes. You, like you said, you can't really stop paying your taxes.My uncle did that. Went to prison. I actively Tasshin: choose Vince: to pay Tasshin: my taxes. I think I could stop paying my taxes. Could, I'm saying every year I considered you can do that. Vince: I seriously Tasshin: consider it. Every you'll to prison. Every year. Vince: You'll, you will go to prison. Tasshin: Yeah, exactly. And I believe I can have more impact, positive impact on the world by paying my taxes and not, and I, every, it's a trade off.Literally every year I make this decision again. Vince: Yeah. So it's, to your point, it's not it's not like a black and white thing where it's like. I'm complicit in this very obvious way that I'm just choosing not to. It's, it, the complicity is deep and it's multidimensional, subtle and Tasshin: systemic and multi-generational.And even, Vince: and yeah, and for me it's I was hanging out with a couple of my cousins recently who are from Palestine. They immigrated here in the early nineties when Palestinians were kicked out of Kuwait. And so they were here, they had to rebuild their life. They lost everything. And I grew up with them.And they're doing advocacy work now in the us And when I hear them, talk about their experience, it's like they're being, they're dealing with shit that I'm not having to deal with. Like one of my cousins recently lost her job. She was a high level exec at a tech company in San Francisco.And she thinks it's likely that she lost it because of her advocacy work within the company. So when I guess when I see. I've lost the thread a bit here in terms of connecting back to what we were talking about. But where was I going with that? Tasshin: You were saying something as my job as being TPOT versus your job.Vince: So like when I talk to, say I'll talk to my great uncle my grandfather's brother who grew up in Palestine, and I'll hear the kinds of things that he'll share. And like I, I don't have those kind of views. Like he's extreme compared to me in terms of like how he's viewing things.This is my interpretation. There's a definitely antisemitic tendencies in, in the family system that I've seen explicit and I understand why. Like I have a lot of compassion. I don't actually let it stand. I challenge it when it arises. Even now. This is this uncle I'm talking about.It's his family and his daughter that's in the West Bank right now. He's considering going to visit her in a couple months. He might get shot and killed while he is there. It's quite possible. For me it's like I, I see I can listen to him and I can hear him talk about stuff and I can sort through the pain and the antisemitism to hear, some of the, what's genuine and sincere and I can be there for him.And then I feel like I can reach out and connect with some people and share my pain and what I'm going through and, offer challenges or whatever to some folks. Recently right after September October 7th someone from he lives in Israel. He is American. We have the same background lineage of a pasta tradition.He invited me on to, to have a dialogue about this about what was happening. And and then after our we split, and we're not able to have any conversations anymore. Because some of the things I saw him writing on X and so the perspectives that he seemed to be taking, and we got to a point where we pulled in a mutual mentor someone someone who's like a master mediator.And their basic feedback was like, sometimes you can't have a conversation. Sometimes it's just not possible. And I feel like that's where I'm getting largely, it's it's just not possible for me to have a conversation with a lot of people right now. Because of how 10 how sensitive this is. And so you say, when you say to or I hear if you were kind or if you were nicer, you'd be more efficacious, if I were able to be, I would. But I'm not. Tasshin: And the second part of what I was saying there is that when you block people, you are closing yourself off from the possibility of changing them.And from what I've just heard from, and I'm okay with that. Yeah, exactly. That makes a bit more sense to me now from what you've said. But Vince: I'm not gonna change a Zionist's mind, I don't think, someone who's like a, Christian or Jewish Zionist, I don't think I'm gonna change their mind by sharing something on like a micro blog.Tasshin: That, one of the really urgent questions for me here is what is a theory of change that produces genuine end to war violence, genocide? What actually resolves that? Actually because if I let me figure out how to put this. I am currently putting my time and energy.Into the things that I think I can do that will have the highest benefit from my current understanding and vantage point. I literally spend every day of my life waking to sleeping, doing the thing that I think is best based on my, admittedly flawed, limited perspective, my own weaknesses and blind spots.But I do that every day. Every day. And if I thought that I could lead to the end of war, genocide, violence, evil in a scaled way I would work much harder to bring that about. I'd have to think about how it fits into all the things I'm doing and balance. But I really wanna know how someone like, I, I would hope for example, that the service guild at some point will have a peace department.Currently, we, as we have a love department, a curiosity department, an empowerment department. I would love for us to have a peace department. I want other departments, us to be able to have infrastructure for other focused crews. At some point it's the Peace Department should be bringing about peace.And I don't know how to do that. Even peace Pilgrim my hero, she spent 30 years working in the way that she knew how for peace. And I don't think she wasted her time far from it. But there is still not peace on earth after her doing that. Vince: Sure. Some of this reminds me, has echoes of the effect of al altruism movement.Yeah.Tasshin: I think they I feel how to put this, I have different aesthetic and ideological views with them on specific points, but I feel very sympathetic to their larger efforts and yeah, what do we actually do to actually have a real impact? I feel very I feel kinship with that, even if there's specific things I disagree with or don't vibe with.So yeah, that's noted. Vince: Yeah, I think if we were to zoom, like not to take the two global perspective of like, how do we stop all genocide, war, et cetera. And that's a good question, but to me it's like, how do we stop this specific one that's happening right now, Tasshin: Uhhuh.Like how, Vince: Because that's sure. So how do we stop it? Obviously you Tasshin: don't have to know, but what a different way of putting the question that's maybe a bit more reasonable. I think it, it's very Vince: noble. Like you, you stop Israel from killing Palestinians. That's how it, okay. And what leads Tasshin: to that causally?Vince: Probably having a Palestinian state would be a necessary part of that. And what leads to that? The US has to stop vetoing it in the us. And what leads Tasshin: to that? Vince: They change in US leadership and change. And what leads to that? People putting pressure and voting and grassroots organ organizing.Ah, that's Tasshin: where you lose me. Vince: Yeah. Look at look at Zohran Mamdani. He's a good example of how that's actually happening right now in the, he's the only candidate, like major candidate that I've seen recent in recent times. Progressive candidate who's actually vocal about this, who isn't on the, both parties, Kamala Harris and Donald Trump both supported the ongoing genocide. They're equally complicit. Tasshin: So basically we should or not leaders that are clear this in your perspective. What I'm hearing is Yeah. Yeah. The salient thing is elect leaders who are clear that this is a genocide who will end us complicitness and help and who are focused on economic populism.Vince: because our country really need, we need that right now. Tasshin: You lost me there. How does, what does that have to do with ending this genocide? Vince: You could it's both and so it's if you look at, this is a good example, I think part of, I grew up in the as probably you did too, in the.In the fading years of the political consensus between the neo-conservative and neoliberal parties, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: who largely agreed on most everything, Tasshin: Uhhuh. Vince: They were both totally fine with military expansion. They were both fine with free trade agreements that hollowed out rural America and towns like in North Carolina, textile towns.Yeah. To save 5 cents, on a shirt made in Vietnam, we're totally fine letting an entire communities die, In towns we haul it out. So it's that kind of mentality, it's like what I grew up in and, it's like the arguments were mostly like stylistic. It's which style of the same ideology do you prefer?Tasshin: Coke versus Pepsi Vince: Ex. Exactly right. Coke and Pepsi. And Obama. He was, you fit right into this. He was not a departure, he was a rhetorician. Tasshin: Yeah,Vince: he sounded like a departure, but wasn't so true. Bestie. Yep. I think when I look at it in those terms, I say, okay what is so interesting about Donald Trump and the MAGA movement?It is actually presenting an alternative to the previous consensus. And I, the way I see American politics right now, and I could be wrong, is there's an emerging, there's a new emerging polarity. That alt left and right, quote unquote yeah, gosh, ne neo fascism and neo progressivism.And there's, and are you saying Tasshin: neo progressivism is the answer here? Vince: I'm, no, I'm not actually Uhhuh. Okay. Although, because some neo fascists don't want us to be sending money to Israel, Tasshin: Uhhuh, Vince: Marjorie Taylor Greene there, there's been a number that recently people who are like, why are we sending billions of dollars to Israel every year when we can't even take care of our own people?Yeah. And so I agree with that Uhhuh, what I actually think is emerging and has to emerge as an alt middle. It's a new. Consensus. And that alt middle will almost certainly not wanna continue propping up an American em military empire. Both alt-right and alt left. That's something they agree on.They don't want to be constantly waging endless wars. They don't wanna be always sending all of our money into our military budget. And is Tasshin: that connected to the populism you're talking about? Vince: Yeah, it is. Okay. It's a it's a strand of populism that's interested in retracting the American Empire and not continuing to create so many problems abroad.And who recognizes that doing so hurts us at home, Uhhuh, and because these things are interconnected. I see. Tasshin: Okay. Thank you for explaining that. Can I recount what I heard just now? Your, I, our, a shared goal that we have is we would like this war, genocide, violence, evil to end. We'd like it to end.And the way that comes about is Israel stops doing what it's doing. And the way that comes about is Palestine is a state and the US stops vetoing certain things at the un. And the way that happens is there's political pressure on the US to show up in a different way. And you're saying that the way that happens is we elect politicians who are want that course of action and also care about this populism and the relationship of how we're spending our money at home.Yeah. And the way that we do that is get involved in local political movements that support candidates that have that perspective. Vince: I think that's one of the most direct ways that uhhuh, that we can as Americans affected this. I'll tell Tasshin: you right now, I, I need to do due diligence on learning more about this, but I will very seriously both take that into consideration for my own voting and then also in how I speak about voting to my friends and people I'm connected to.That's not much. But this is more. That's what I really care about. I wanna make sure that whatever actions I take, I am that I can see. It matters to me that I can see how there could be a causal chain where this actually results in the things that we want, if that makes sense.I don't know why that matters to me so much, but it does. Vince: Yeah. Okay. We haven't talked about Bodhi Safa hood yet. Yes. So maybe I could bring that in. Yeah. Tasshin: Thank God, please. Someone helped me. Yeah. Vince: I don't know if you, it's a Tasshin: struggle out here. Vince: I don't know if you've heard this quote from Ujima Roshi Japanese Zen teacher.He said a Bodhi Safa is an ordinary person who acts like a true adult. Tasshin: I had never heard that before, but I love it. And what does true adult mean to you? Vince: I think a true adult is someone who sees a problem and they respond to it. And. A true adult recognizes the complexity of the situation and acts anyway with that with incomplete information with whatever resources and ability that they have while acknowledging that they're limited.So that's a start. True adult cares about themselves and others. I could even, I could actually inhabit as a true adult. I both take care of my life at home and I care about the impacts that that the country and systems I'm embedded in are having in the world. That I'm causal in, that I have some causal influence over, even if it's minimal.Tasshin: You know what I'm reminded of Vince is video game levels and I feel like. It seems it seems cr crass to pick levels, but I feel like, I don't know, let's say a level eight Bodhi Safa I'm not level one anymore. I'm not even level five anymore, but I feel acutely, like I'm really only level eight and I think it's gonna there are 10 Vince: levels aren't there In this game?I, oh no. Bodhi the boomie, the boom. No.Tasshin: I know what you're talking about. But also that's not the measurement system I'm using. Okay. You're not, Vince: it's not a traditional boomy model. No. Tasshin: I'm thinking like, I never played it, but like World of Warcraft, I'm pretty sure 80 is like a threshold in World of Warcraft.It's I'm pretty sure you need like a level 60 or 70 Bodhi Safa to have global systemic change at the level that's needed for the thing we're talking about. And I'm like I know if I have a friend that has a mental health crisis, like I'm struggling to barely be able to support them in a meaningful way.Like I'm embarrassed by how. Incompetent. I am at even that helping one person that's having a mental health crisis. Like I can help a little bit, but like I know someone who's an extended network right now is having their partner's having a major schizophrenic episode and I'm like, here, I can send you a link that might help you.That's that's so pathetic. That is so disgustingly pathetic for actually having an impact in the world. It's humiliating to admit, but here we are because there's real suffering and you have to do whatever we can to help. And so I would like to it would be great if I ended this year as a level nine Bodhi, that would be awesome.And do I want to have global systemic positive change on a historic scale? Absolutely. I hope that every passing year I'm more and more capable of. Large scale, positive impact, and I'm just so acutely aware of how incompetent I am and how limited I'm really doing everything I can to have a positive impact at the scale that I can right now.And it's it's pathetic and humiliating in the context of this larger suffering. I'm fine with that. I'm not embarrassed to say that, but it is humbling, it's it's not nearly good enough. And I think the more acquainted you are with how much suffering there is in the universe, the more humbled you are by that, by one's own incompetence to, and then you do, that's the Bodhi SA of vows, anyway, is just to be like greed, hatred, and end without end like vow to end it. Like you just, you get up and do something anyway. Vince: Yeah. I've. There's a distinction that's commonly made in like a, I would call it like in the woke pluralistic cultural scene of like intention versus impact.And that's an important distinction when you're starting to get into questions of race and racialization, because people will say things with a good intentions that hurt other people because they're ignorant of the impact that has for someone else. And here I think it's I think of that too with what you're saying, where it's okay yeah, like I want to become a, be a more impactful Bodhi Safa.I want to have a more net positive impact in the world. And on the one hand yeah, I could say, like you're saying it, I feel humbled and maybe embarrassed by how ineffectual I am. And. I also feel humble about the fact that I don't know the impact that I'm having. I don't understand it. And I feel like this is really, you probably have had a similar experience putting media out into the worlds, like with Buddhist geeks when we launched that, the hundreds and hundreds of people that I heard from over the years who are like, that had such a powerful impact on my life.And I'm like wow, okay. I, that was definitely not what I was aiming for. I was just doing something I thought was cool at the time. Honestly. And so that wasn't even necessarily my intention, but that was the impact. And so I'm amazed, I am amazed at how effective people can be without even knowing it. It's like hard sometimes. Hard to know. It's hard to measure. And that's where I would say it's the challenge here with what you're saying is I want to see if I'm effect. You have to be able to measure the effectiveness to be able to know, and we can't fully measure, we can get better at measuring, like we can maybe get more sophisticated in seeing and understanding our impact both negative and positive.But it's really difficult without going into you really have to have an understanding of the whole to be able to see your individual impacts on the whole. And I don't know, where am I going with this? Just to say there's some kind of feedback loop here that I think is like what the Bodhi Safa is driven by.It's like constantly coming back to. A wise or compassionate intention. And then do trying your best to live from that place, even if you're, not effectual. And then doing your best to understand the impacts of your actions So that, you can, that can inform how you act the next time that you're trying to be, coming from this place of genuine wisdom and compassion. And there's some kind of sharpening of like skillful means that happens in this feedback loop. Tasshin: Yeah. Vince: And to me, it's like the Bodhi Safa is one who's engaged in the pro in that process rather than Yes. Then there are different levels then are depths or degrees of skillfulness.And probably in different domains too.Tasshin: Yeah, of course. Multiple axes. Vince: So I hear what you're saying and I think that's valid. Like it isn't up to any, I don't think it's up to individuals to solve the global challenges.Tasshin: No, but I'm also like, I'm aware that I think I am I was just humble, so now I can be a little arrogant.I think I'm uniquely well-suited to create systems that actually do have causal impact on the historic scale over time. It just takes a long time and it takes very careful thought and a lot of care and consideration and love and effort. And so I would like to build systems that have a net positive historic impact on the scale of humanization.And as far as I can tell I'm playing my cards that way, where like I would really hope that if we fast forwarded 30 or 40 years, we would be like, Hey. The Service Guild did really good stuff that was net positive on human society and our civilization and the planet. And of course there'll be fuckups along the way where we mess up and I make just dumb mistakes and whatever.But I would hope that it's net positive and that it has a genuinely historic obvious impact on the world that was positive. So that's part of why my care, that's why I would wanna have this conversation at all, is like, how can I build systems that actually do have that kind of impact on ending, yeah.Including ending violence of all kinds and this conflict, this genocide, this war, this evil in particular. Vince: Yeah. I think that's a great intention. I, there's like a, there's a quote in the Bava Gita that's coming to mind. I can't remember the exact quote, but it's some, something about acting without any thought of results or it's happens in that famous dialogue between Krishna and Arjuna. Yeah, there's Tasshin: a difference in da I, I've been influenced a lot by DAAs strategy, and they talk a lot about the difference between means ends and conditions, consequences.And we're really trying to create the conditions for good consequences. So can I guarantee that we would have a particular result? Absolutely not, but absolutely not. But I think we can create the conditions for historic benevolent beneficent impact.Vince: It's interesting you're talking about a guild. Because to me it's I think of the Bodhi Safa as a more of like a. A relational phenomena. Tasshin: It's Vince: Team Bodhi Safa. Rather than a Bodhi Safa.And so it seems like a lot of the challenge here is around coordinating and connecting and aligning, collective alignment. And these are the things I think are very hard for people who've been trained to individuate and who are focused on their own agency. John Vey, the philosopher, he points out like when you take role, you are rolling yourself into that. You're losing a certain kind of agency by inhabiting a role, say role of father, role of teacher role of whatever you're limiting yourself in that role.And, but, and yet you have to play roles in cult in community Tasshin: to do anything. Yep. Vince: So I guess, yeah I don't know where to go from there. From here. Tasshin: I would summarize our conversation so far as follows. TPOT such as it is an emergent developmental p