Conversations with Women in Sales

I had a great conversation with co-author of the new book, "The Activator Advantage"'s Karen Freeman. Here is some information about the book from DCM Insights:  There is a growing problem in the professional services industry that is often acknowledged but rarely discussed openly: clients—even long-standing ones for whom firms have delivered unquestioned value in the past—are much less loyal to firms and partners than they once were. But top performers have figured out a radical new approach that is redefining what it means to be a "rainmaker" in today's professional services market. Drawing on a comprehensive, quantitative study of nearly 3,000 professional services partners, The Activator Advantage identifies the five types of partners found across the professional services landscape and shows how only one of them—the Activator—drives consistent growth. Karen and I talked about what activators do: commit, connect, and create.  Take a look at the book information here: https://www.dcminsights.com/activator-advantage More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/  Thank you for sharing these stories! We want to inspire women to consider a sales career, stay in a sales career, and / or get promoted into leadership in B2B sales. We champion our male allies as well.   

Tracy Young has been on our radar for some time, having co-founded PlanGrid (acquired by Autodesk) and now co-founder of TigerEye - a GTM modern analytics platform. As a successful co-founder, Tracy has a natural sales background combined with her engineer background - a powerful combination.  On the TigerEye website, the company's core values are: Wholehearted, Humility, Kaizen, Trust, and Simplicity. Tracy discusses how she leads the company and has battled in her own head what a construction CEO or a tech co-founder looks like. It looks like her: a petite, Asian woman.  Tracy belives that the focus on a great leader should not be whether they are masculine or feminine but rather how they build their team - they have a vision, they're authentic, genuine, and are great communicators who care.  Follow Tracy on LinkedIn More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/   

Erica has helped build a global team at Workiva where everyone has a "me vs. me" mentality - working to improve ourlseves, not a competitive "me versus you" attitude. How can you get better? How can you deliver the best to your clients and internal consitutents.  Erica was named "Manager of the Year" and she says it is because of her incredible team.  We talked about holding people accountable - such an important issue for leaders to demonstrate.  I love when Erica discusses what she looks for in top sellers (17 min in)  Erica has people on her team from Amsterdam all the way to the West Coast of the U.S. She spent time at Morgan Stanley in Institutional Wealth Services, a few years at Direxion, and has now been at Workiva for 4+ years.  More about Erica: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericaettore/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Amber Hayes is currently Director of Sales at a Toronto company called Voices, which is the #1 marketplace for voice-over. We had a great conversation about how you need to pivot and embrace change within your company so that it doesn't outgrow you.  She started at Voices as a Project Administrator, and listen to the episode to learn more about her move to sales, and now sales leadership. Amber is in her 11th year at Voices - unusually long tenure so we know good things are happening there! Amber says,  "We're in a really fast-paced industry and it's changing all the time. This company has had a refresh in our approach, I would say every year to every other year. It's never been stagnant. When I signed on. What was important to me is that the leadership wanted us to continue to be like a head competitor in the industry. And to do that, you need to pivot, you need to try new things, you need to change things up. And you do tend to cycle through leadership because the company can outgrow you if it's growing at a fast pace. And I think people miss that a lot, but I got firsthand exposure to it. So I was seeing some of our leaders that were great where we were at. They were doing an amazing job. But for the next steps we needed to go to, they weren't elevating as quickly as the company maybe needed them to. So you saw people kind of cycle through leadership at this company as the company outgrew certain, maybe certain people in certain roles, or maybe people wanted to step away from where the company was going." More about Amber here. More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/   

The time has come where we hit 200 episodes and it was a pleasure to have on good friend and "Sales Energizer" Alice Heiman. Alice also hosts a great podcast called Sales Talk for CEOs.  We need to keep talking about more women in sales and sales leadership since we still have huge opportunities for more women in sales and sales leadership.  Alice and Lori talk about the last ten years of effort to help create inclusive B2B sales teams, what has changed, and what we still need to do.  We remember Barbara Giamanco who started the podcast back in 2018. Her early episodes are really great and we encourage others to listen to them.  Thanks to all those listeners who have helped it be an award-winning podcast! More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Cynthia Cross was all set for a career in accounting when she went to college. A wise professor suggested she would not like that major and encouraged her to do something else where she could utilize her social skills and outgoing personality more. Upon graduation she moved to Wichita, Kansas and met a sales manager who encouraged her to get into a sales role.  Cynthia says the throughline in her entire career has been who she knows, not what she knows. Good question for the audience - how are you building your network? Do you work at it every day or week?  Most of us haven't been with one employer for more than a few years - Cynthia has now been at Cox Communication for over 17 years. Listen to her story and about her love of sales.  But we both agree - sales isn't for everyone - is it for you?  More about Cynthia: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cynthia-cross/   More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Katie McDonald was in sales previously. Now she coaches women in self-care because of so many of us who have gotten burned out or just put ourselves last. Hear some of Katie's suggestions for your crazy busy life. She talks about "ME management"  It's all about self-care strategies because the fact is most of us are running on fumes and we're borrowing future energy to get through today. Katie wants to disrupt that. When we think about what we're able to create in a compromised state she wants to leverage the wellbeing that we can create through our habits. Katie also says that to create sustainable change and also have a legacy, leave a legacy behind that's intentional and come from a place of nourishment and restoration instead of deprivation and denial is the goal.  More about Katie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bnourished/ https://bnourished.com/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/   

Sarah Kiley has had a sales caree where she's risen through the ranks.  She's built a reputation for aligning people, processes, and technology to deliver measurable outcomes. Whether it's launching new products, driving cross-functional collaboration, or spearheading strategic initiatives, she has focused on creating value for customers, partners, and stakeholders alike. More about Sarah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahkiley/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Samantha Craig wanted to be a teacher. She got through school but then had a hard time finding a job. She knew she loved to travel so she wondered if she could travel somewhere and teach.  Sam ended up teaching for a year in South Korea.  She came back to her home state of Massachusetts and realized she wanted to teach somewhere else so set off for Washington, DC.  At some point Sam considered a job "until she got her teaching job" in an office. But not just any office. Sam said that if she had to work in an office, it should be an amazing one.  She was interviewed in an amazing office and the hiring manager saw something in Sam for a sales role. This changed her life. Shoutout to Sarah Carcone!  Listen as Samantha talks about her rise into leadership and what it takes to be successful.  More about Samantha: https://www.linkedin.com/in/spierce1220/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Kayla Burke is an Enterprise Sales Specialist at Microsoft and Founder of "The Tech Level" helping others to get a tech sales role.  When Kayla graduated from college she became a business analyst but found that it didn't bring her much joy in her job. A random person told her about sales hiring going on at IBM and she ended up becoming a Business Development Manager - and has loved technology sales ever since.  In addition to being an Enterprise Sales Specialist at Microsoft, Kayla launched a program to help get more folks into tech sales roles and has had great success at it.  Kayla Burke: https://www.thetechlevel.com/ Kayla Burke LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/burkekayla/  More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

I first met Andrea Sittig-Rolf in the early 2000's - we had both recently launched our B2B sales consulting businesses and she was about to get her first of several books published.  Fast forward to now, and she has a 22 year track record of success in helping thousands of sellers and hundreds of companies with the "top of funnel" prospecting part of professional selling.  More about Andrea:  2021 - 2024 CRN Woman of the Channel. Trusted co-selling partner for the world's top tech giants since 2002. Her company, BLITZMasters does workshops and has a co-selling platform. In this episode we talk about some sales and prospecting fundamentals. Andrea will give some hints to their formula for success in their Blitzes and prospecting in general.  Follow Andrea here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theblitzmaster/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

Our goal at Women Sales Pros is to help support women in existing B2B sales roles to thrive, to get into leadership if they want to, and to recognize the companies and allies doing great things.  This is a short episode with host Lori Richardson to cheer on 2025 and share resources like these ones:  Find podcasts, women in sales organizations, and more here at Women Sales Pros - https://womensalespros.com/resources/ Get an e-newsletter 2x a month with stories about women in sales and more resources subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues Follow "Conversations with Women in Sales" for previous episodes here:  https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ On LinkedIn: https://womensalespros.com/podcast/

Ayana Gardner was recently named as one of "300 Women Making an Impact in B2B SaaS" so it is great that she kick off our first episode of 2025. Ayana is a ZCX Channel Leader at Zoom.  We are also starting 2025 with our Q1 sponsor, RapidScale. Ayana has been in sales for a number of years and loves her current position which involves working with Zoom channel partners - a huge opportunity in B2B sales as so many companies sell through channels of one type or another.  Because she works for Zoom Ayana is virtual, and does virtual events and enablement within her role.  Ayana talks about being a lifelong learner- how our company we work for will provide some foundational training and learning, but it is up to us to learn what we think we need or want so we can grow.  More about Ayana: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayanagardner702/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/    Partnerships Unraveled Podcast that Ayana mentions: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/partnerships-unraveled-podcast-7242555185363922944/  

I always laugh about how so many women do wait to be tapped on the shoulder by a leader in the company to move into a different role - this did happen to Tania who began her career in her 20's in marketing.  Tania now is a successful author, former corporate enterprise seller, and now runs Mindful Quadrant. We had a great conversation covering a lot of ground.  Tania is working on a new version of her great planner currently sold as "Work It - a Modern Day Sales Planner" and wrote a book called, "Work It, Girl - a Modern Day Career Guide for Women in Sales"  Having worked at LiveRamp, Salesforce, Yext, Segment, and other sales organizations, Tania has been through a lot and learned a lot fo share with others newer to a sales career.  Follow Tania: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taniadoub/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/  (all episodes accessible here) 

When Elitsa and I spoke, we had many stories about competent women in sales and leadership roles who wait to get the "tap" on the shoulder to be promoted. Our male counterparts TELL their boss that they expect to be promoted many times and they initiate introductions with some of their C-level leaders, heads of other teams in their company and proudly state their accomplishments.  Are we too shiy to also do that, or is it in how we were raised - "don't brag," my dad would tell me.  Today in 2025 we say, "It isn't bragging if it is true."  Listen to Elitsa share about her career. Born in Bulgaria, Elitsa visited the US a number of times, going back and forth, then moved to the DC area in 2011 and started working for CEB (which became Gartner later). She got great sales training (these were the "Challenger" folks) and really fell in love with sales.  Due to an opportunity for her husband, she moved to Ukraine back in 2015 (no hint of a future war then). What was amazing was that when they did hear of turmoil happening at the beginning of 2022, they had to immediately leave Ukraine - while she was quickly building a virtual and in person sales team AND was six months pregnant. Any one of those three things is tough, but all together is incredible.  Listen to her story, and also how she created her original role at Preply by giving feedback to the CEO.  More about Elitsa: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elitsa-zaimova-a238a31a/ More about Women Sales Pros - we have a website, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.  Subscribe to our 2x a month news, and share the podcast with others! We'd love a 5 star rating and comments on iTunes if you are so moved! It really makes a difference.  subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ 

April Marks leveraged the communication skills she got in college to help her launch into a sales career - first as a BDR, then right into an Enterprise Sales role. She is currently at Pangea.  My current role enables customers to leverage processes integrating API-based security services and strategically managing enterprise accounts, currently at Pangea. I am driven by the mission to streamline security processes, which resonates with Pangea's innovative approach to delivering comprehensive services through a single framework. My commitment to fostering a collaborative culture and bringing diverse insights to the table ensures alignment with many organizational values and goals. In my experiences, I've led strategic customer engagements, expanding their use of services during crucial business periods such as new technical use cases, DevOps transformations, onboarding, and M&A events. I successfully proposed DevSecOps and AI processes, demonstrating my proficiency in these areas, and partnered closely with customers to tailor security solutions that matched their unique needs. My approach always involves a thorough understanding of customer metrics and standards, which has been instrumental in exceeding goals and securing marketable assets for the company. More about April here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprilmarks/ April's recommeneded reading:  The Dark Side Of Interpersonal Communication, Brian H. Spitzberg Positive Communication for Leaders, Mirivel  More about Women Sales Pros: https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-sales-pros/  

Kaivona Parker works with companies and individuals to help get more underserved folks into tech sales and support and champion them to success.  We talked about the notion of people saying to bring your "whole self" to work, but in reality we can't all do that.  Kaivona wants to help build up those in sales to help them grow and flourish. She trains, coaches, and is an all around sales enablement pro, with career stops at Grainger, Yelp, Nestle', and Teachable, among others.  Listen and share your thoughts - we'd love to hear them.  Kaivona Parker: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaivona-parker/ Women Sales Pros: @womensalespros on Instagram https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-sales-pros/ 2x a month newsletter about getting more women in sales; championing female sellers and sales leaders, and shining a light on our male allies:  sign up: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute a story: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues

The book Ask Like an Auctioneer has a mission: to help 1 Million women ask for more and get it.  But it's not just for women.  It's for you if you want to: Get the raise of your life Land that partnership that can change everything Expand your influence in your domain Secure that whale of a client Refuse to lowball yourself Use asking as a success strategy I was thrilled to interview Dia because as a former fundraising auctioneer myself, I know a bit about Dia's successes -  A Communications Coach for two decades, Dia Bondi works with top CEOs, VC-backed founders, innovators, and creatives to speak powerfully and elevate their impact. After training as an auctioneer, Bondi translated the strategies she learned from the fundraising auctioneering stage into a program that helps women ask for more in their career and life. Based on the wildly successful keynotes and workshops, Ask Like an Auctioneer is an actionable guide that shows you the secret to getting out of your comfort zone and into your “zone of freaking out” (ZOFO). Dia Bondi on LinkedIn Women Sales Pros @womensalespros on Instagram, here on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-sales-pros/

Anna rose from inside sales support to a sales role at Oracle, to startup PlanGrid, then Autodesk (acquired PlanGrid) and now at TigerEye as VP of Sales. How did she do it?  Anna is very conversational and I really enjoyed hearing her tips in doing well in sales and also what she has to say about AI. Listen to what she has to say about being a "lone wolf" and why you don't want to be that. Follow Anna here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anna-r-a375483/ Follow Women Sales Pros: @womensalespros on Instagram Sign up for our 2x a month e-news: subscribe: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues

Do you know what you want in your career?  Many of us know we don't like where we are at or our role, but we don't know what we DO want.  Jaime Diglio's new book, "Moneyball Leadership" is not just for leaders - it is a quick read for anyone wanting to get out of the "war room" as Jaime puts it, and into the "win room".  Mindset is so important in business - especially sales and sales leadership.  Jaime explains:  "Today's leaders are burning out at higher rates than ever before because they're measuring the wrong things and using outdated methods that work against the results they are trying to achieve — losing them money, time, and energy every day. In Moneyball Leadership, I reveal a better way to win that most are blind to. I offer a unique, proven blueprint you won't find anywhere else, revealing the secret formula behind my clients' successes." Jaime will teach how to play (money)ball and Master the New ROI: Return on Interactions,  changing how you see the game you've been playing your whole life. More on Jaime here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaimediglio/ Jaime's TEDx talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viXdeKVLwXo  "From War Room to WIN Room - Change Your Room, Change Your Life"  Follow Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn and Instagram  2x month e-newsletter with interviews and resources for more #womeninsales   

My guest today is Sarah Gross,  VP of Global Enablement at RingCentral. Sarah and I go way back, and most recently she became a new mom which has given her new perspectives about women and work.  Sarah is also a top sales enablement professional who helps design process and support for sales teams like the ones at RingCentral. When Sarah and I first met, she was with Gartner, and has also worked at Procore and Vorsight in addition to others.  Sarah calls enablement the "octopus" of an organization because it is the only department that touches every other department.  Follow Sarah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahfricke/ Follow Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-sales-pros/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/womensalespros/ 2x month newsletter on all things women in sales:  signup: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues

Brilliant business author Tamsen Webster has just released her newest book, Say What They Can't Unhear: The 9 Principles of Lasting Change.  Tamsen describes the new book: The book is a compact and actionable guide that will get leaders (and others!) thinking differently about where change comes from and how to initiate it. By introducing and exploring nine “persuasion proverbs,” I highlight the behavioral, cognitive, and psychological principles that underpin lasting change, and offer a powerful alternative to the standard tactics of influence and persuasion. The outlined concepts are easy to remember, simple to implement, and will give readers the tools to transform any audience of lukewarm prospects into passionate believers. We started off talking about "ethical persuasion" - a huge important aspect in professional selling. Join the conversation and check out Tamsen's book.  https://tamsenwebster.com/ More on Tamsen https://womensalespros.com/ More on Women Sales Pros https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ All podcast episodes

Her parents were Somali refugees who ended up in the U.K. As a child, Misky Sharif learned to be careful around the drugs and crime in her low income neighborhood. She rose above it, while learning as she grew up. How many kids would dodge all of the negative and find something positive in that? Listen as Misky explains how.  Misky overcame obstacles and currently is in FinTech as an Account Executive for Revolut, and if you are in sales and don't have an "accomplishment bank" - take a listen to the full episode  - great action item to start one on your own today!  Misky Sharif can connect via LinkedIn Womnen Sales Pros can be found on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, and other social posts. 

Now more than ever, we are seeing the importance of how sales fits in pre-sale and after the sale, and how sales needs enablement like the examples Deirdre offers are what helps grow . Learning, practicing, executing and coaching is the repeatable cadence   Lori and Deirdre talk about creating "work life harmony" and the value of keeping in touch with those you've enjoyed working with previously.  We talk about "just in time" coaching and how adults learn.  Deirdre helps Skillibrium to:  Assess your team's skills Remediate with Learning paths Practice with Stand and Deliver Implement an Operational Cadence Execute with Sales Playbooks Predicably grow revenue Promote based on objectivity  and Deliver exceptional experiences. More is at https://skillibrium.com/  Women Sales Pros tracks top podcasts, books and speakers and has a 2x a month newsletter in addition to this award-winning podcast. @womensalespros   

Xactly is a tech platform for assisting companies with compensation and forecasting with the sales team, and has been around since 2005. They started sharing research about men in sales roles versus women in 2014 or so - quite some time ago, and just released their 2024 research results which includes the following: ● Representation disparities: The gender ratio in sales is alarming. Women are underrepresented in sales roles, constituting only 34% of the sales force and only 29% of sales managers. ● Female salespeople earn less: On average, men earn 3.5% more than women as salespeople, and 3.7%* more as sales managers when it comes to fixed pay. Without adjustment of outside factors, men earn 9% more than women as salespeople, and 13% more as sales managers. ● Pay gaps widen over time: At the start of salespeople's careers, men earn 2.2% more on average than women. After 2 years, this gap widens by 30%. After 5 years, the gap increases even more significantly, with a 77% increase. ● The gaps differ from industry to industry: The pay gap varies significantly across sectors, with female sales professionals in the Life Sciences and Pharma space reporting a 9% gap in pay and Manufacturing space with an 8% gap. It might be more opportune for women in sales to enter the Financial Services industry, where no pay gap was reported. ● State-by-state disparities: The state sales people live in seems to correlate with the pay disparities. Colorado and New Jersey hold the largest pay gap between men and women at 7%, with Georgia and Washington claiming the lowest pay gap at 1%. ● Performance remains unaffected: Despite the overwhelming disparities in representation and pay, female sales professionals consistently outperformed their male counterparts. Female salespeople outperformed men by 1.5%, and female sales managers outperformed by 3%. ● Loyalty is not a factor: Women tend to show greater loyalty to their Sales teams, staying with the same organization on average four months longer than their male counterparts. ● Unfair impact on quota assignments: Many organizations do not seem to recognize women's higher performance. On average, male salespeople are assigned 3% higher quotas, and male sales managers are assigned 5% higher quotas, suggesting that sales teams assign men to higher potential sales territories or opportunities.   Follow Women Sales Pros for more research, interviews, and recommendations to add more women into sales and sales leadership roles.  Sign up for our newsletter for 2x month insights, ideas, and stories - and submit your own! Sign up: https://bit.ly/thewspnews Contribute: https://forms.gle/v9rRiPDUtgGqKaXA6 Past News Issues: bit.ly/past_news_issues

Gretchen launched Unbound and Unbothered, a career coaching business for women in tech in  2021. She helps high achievers who are stuck, stifled or at a crossroads ditch the stress and overwork to have a life and a job without burning out.  Since she and I both got into tech in the "early days" (me earlier than her) we had a great conversation - I reference the title because we both worked for at least one company where the bathrooms were both for the guys since we were the first or second female hires.   Be sure and follow Gretchen here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gretchend/ Follow Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn, Instagram, X, and Facebook.  Our 2x month newsletter, The News is all about celebrating women in sales with upcoming events, feature articles, and stories about our male allies supporting us.  Past issues of The News here.  Please share this podcast episode if you find value in it! We love reviews on iTunes! 

"A billion dollar quota is like a 100K quota - you have to be comfortable talking about money with others" - one of the topics guest Marva Bailer and I bond on in our conversation shared today. I'm thrilled that our sponsor, Skillibrium, brings on advisors like Marva so that we can have real discussions around how to be successful.  Marva was in sales before she learned how to drive - she and I share that young entrepreneurial spirit as well. Marva got into health, wellness and personal development before it was cool - and these are big topics in a successful sales career today.  Join us for a fun conversation about coaching, personal growth, and professional development as well - share your thoughts, and please share the podcast with one other woman or male ally if you can.  @womensalespros on Insta @marvabailer on Insta  

Ashley Philipps is the author of the new book, The Teacher's Guide to Changing Careers. Being a former teacher myself, I am always up for hearing about others who left the admirable profession of teaching due to the lack of pay, and who got into sales roles.  Ashley's book showcases other careers, but she did go into B2B sales and we talk about that on this episode.  You will also hear my tip for those in the job market - what is the best way to approach someone who is well connected, instead of saying, "Hey if you know of anyone hiring...." What do you say instead?  Ashley's book will certainly help teachers who feel like they are underappreciated, underpaid, and who are interested in continuing to be a teacher as a professional seller.  The good news about the B2B sales profession is that IT is also an admirable profession - a helping profession. Even with new AI tools, complex sales won't happen without empathetic, communicative, collaborative sellers like many former teachers can be.  Follow Women Sales Pros 

I have known Michelle Benfer over the years and it was great to catch up with her in her role as SVP Sales, Business Line Owner at BILL. [Bill is (according to their website) the intelligent way to create and pay bills, send invoices, manage expenses, control budgets, and access the credit your business needs to grow—all on one platform.] Michelle is a sales leader and in our conversation we talked about how things have changed in sales, how there is some "bad behavior" happening more than before due to the tougher economy and some advice for reps about taking control of their destiny and the big job that front line sales managers have.  Fun fact: Michelle's mom was her sales role model, setting up calls like today's BDRs and SDRs do. When her parents started thinking about college for her and her siblings her mom got a job at Boston College so her kids would get free tuition (perk of working at a university). Mom was smart!  More about Michelle Benfer, ex Hubspot, Limited Partner at Stage 2 Capital - now at Bill.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellehughesbenfer/ More from Women Sales Pros - sign up for our 2x month newsletter  https://bit.ly/thewspnews Page on LinkedIn "Women Sales Pros" or connect with Lori Richardson #seeitbeit  https://www.linkedin.com/in/scoremoresales/ https://www.instagram.com/womensalespros/   

What is it like when two data focused people get together and talk? It does get a bit nerdy, but that's what I like about Sara, who lives in Stockholm, Sweden.  Sara has been doing nearly all roles - from individual contributor - like SDR, BDR, AE and all the way up to VP and CRO. Now she is running two companies, "Break the Box" and "Skills." Like many of us who came from little money, Sara was amazed when she got her first paycheck in her sales career and said to herself, "I will never have to be hungry again."  That's why we talk about sales being a game-changer for those new into professional selling. If you are having a tough time at the moment - stick with it because sales can be such an amazing career if you are motivated, good at it, and have support from the company you're at.  Sara talks about her journey from selling consumer products where half of the sellers were women to being the only woman in the room and how she adjusted - and what many of us learn over time to "fit in" versus being ourselves - it is an interesting point in our conversation.  Also, Sara gives a great tip on what to say when someone sales something really inappropriate in front of you and others. Check it out.  Connect with Sara here on LI:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/saralstorm/ Learn more about Women Sales Pros here - we support all of the women in sales orgs and communities:  https://womensalespros.com/ Sign up for our e-newsletter: https://bit.ly/thewspnews

We have had sales leader Gabrielle (GB) Blackwell on before (episode 85) and happy to have her back discussing some of her recent posting about toxic boss behavior in the sales workplace. GB and I were talking about more women than usual leaving B2B sales - something I am posting more about now as well.  GB shares her story about some really unhealthy situations she's found herself in previously - note we did not name names - it's not about that. It is about helping others in the same spot to see the red flags we may have missed or thought they were just part of being there.  I stand by what I say: "Go where you are celebrated, not tolerated."  GB talks about how if you are a woman, be sure and get feedback.  Get feedback not about your personality, but about skills. This is something GB noticed she'd get.  If you are a manager and simply write off a rep and don't give them any feedback, that's a form of abuse. (note: Manager, it is your JOB to support and develop all of the reps on your team)  What have we missed? Share in comments on LinkedIn or elsewhere. Keep this conversation going. Let's not lose women because of something that is changable with support of women in sales and our male allies.  Reach Gabrielle here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabrielleblackwell/ More Conversations with Women in Sales here: https://womensalespros.com/podcast/

How can you be in intergrity and hide part of your story? That was one of the big takeaways from my conversation with Jaime Konzelman, sales leader at tech company Rackspace.  Jaime wrote a memoir called, "Dealmaker" that chronicles her life from college into exotic dancing and on into a stellar B2B sales career.  Jaime has done big deals - hundreds of millions of dollars worth, at companies like IBM, Unisys, and Xerox. She leads teams of sellers now. Jaime knows her stuff.  Let us know how you like the episode - and please give us a rating on iTunes if you will - and a comment - and share with other women to help inspire them.  More on Jaime: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jkonzelman/ More podcast episodes from Women Sales Pros:  https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ Shoutout to our sponsor, Skillibrium! https://skillibrium.com/ 

When Meredith graduated from college, she taught English as a second language in Spain. She had graduated in 2011 and from Spain saw and heard that her friends back in the San Francisco Bay / Silicon Valley area were all getting tech jobs. Friends encourged her to hurry back and get on with a big tech company.  Using her background as an NCAA varsity field hockey athlete, she walked into a sales role at Yelp - a super fast growing company at the time.  We talked about office dynamics at some of the companies Meredith went on to work for. She said that she had left amazing opportunities because the in-office dynamic was so intolerable. A boy's club.  Listern to her journey and currently Meredith is at pclub.io working to grow sales there, and also at Meredith Chandler Consulting  Connect with Meredith here.

If you have ever wanted bigger deals to build or to work on, you need to know our guest this episode, Dr. Barbara Weaver Smith. Having known Barbara for the last 10 or so years, I don't know why she hasn't been on the show sooner - and today she is talking about a new service she's launched utilizing generative AI, "Barbara AI" and the launch of her online Whale Hunters Institute.  Barbara runs The Whale Hunters and is entirely focused on helping people win bigger deals through a process she's refined over the last 20 years. She is author of "Whale Hunting with Global Accounts" and co-author of "Whale Hunting - Land Big Sales and Transform Your Company" Listen to Barbara's journey from education to non-profits to sales and how she is still contributing massively to the sales field through her new online institute.  She's the first person in sales I have seen using AI the way she does.  Barbara Weaver Smith https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbaraweaversmith/ https://thewhalehunters.com/the-institute/   Find more stories of amazing women in sales at Women Sales Pros and "Conversations with Women in Sales podcast.  If you LIKE what you hear, PLEASE review on iTunes - it means a lot. Women Sales Pros consults with companies to help them find, hire, and retain more great women for their sales teams. https://womensalespros.com/

It started for both Cherilynn and me by selling Girl Scout cookies. Like me, she LOVED selling cookies, and it seems to be one of the commonalities in our sales careers.  Cherilynn Castleman wants to empower 1 million women for C-suite success by 2030! She is a force to be reckoned with - listen to our conversation and how we both want everyone to know how selling is really helping others.  Learn sales skills and become "too good to be ignored" - as Cherilynn says.  Follow her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherilynn-castleman/   Women Sales Pros hosts this podcast and also "The News" newsletter for things happening around the sales ecosystem for women in sales. Follow us on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and wherever women in sales is being discussed.   

Hannah and I had a rousing conversation about all things sales. Hannah is founder of Revenue Funnel and is based in London. She and I talked about many topics - including:  A Conversation with Hannah Ajikawo - Journey from Sales to CEO and Founder of Revenue Funnel In this episode, Hannah Ajikawo, CEO and Founder of Revenue Funnel, discusses her journey through experiences in Sales to forming her company. Raised in inner-city areas heavily influenced by crime, Hannah obtained a degree in Criminology and Social Policy before finding her way into Sales. She discusses her experiences working across various companies, and how her curiosity about the functioning of companies led her to setup her own business. Hannah also talks about the importance of networking and continuous learning for success in Sales. She advocates for keeping focus on improving specific areas based on individual needs. Furthermore, she emphasizes the critical role Sales plays in personal development, stepping into power, and generating wealth. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Presentation 00:38 Hannah's Journey into Sales 01:01 Transition from Academia to Sales 02:24 Challenges and Triumphs in Sales 05:42 Personal Struggles and Career Progression 09:32 The Shift to Consulting 10:34 The Importance of Authenticity 12:24 Advice for Job Seekers 18:09 Hannah's Involvement in Sistas in Sales 21:32 Recommendations for Aspiring Salespeople 28:32 Conclusion and Contact Information   Reach Hannah on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-ajikawo/   Reach Lori Richardson and Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/scoremoresales/

In a candid conversation, communication expert and sideline reporter for the Seattle Seahawks and the Seattle Mariners, Jen Mueller shares her perspective on maintaining focus and supportive beliefs amidst challenging times, such as a difficult economic climate or personal setbacks. She discusses the significance of honesty in assessing failures and emphasizes the importance of competing against oneself to improve. Jen also highlights the value of small, incremental successes in boosting confidence. She provides insights from her experience with athletes, drawing parallels between the sports and professional world, underscoring the need to start fresh after every setback, utilizing team support, and focusing on strengths. Finally, Jen suggests proactive measures such as celebrating small victories to build momentum towards success. 00:00 Introduction and Welcome 00:40 Discussing Mindset in Difficult Times 01:39 The Importance of Honesty and Self-Competition 03:02 The Power of Starting Fresh and Focusing on Strengths 05:20 The Role of Teammates and Celebrating Small Wins 07:03 Conclusion and Contact Information Welcome new Premier Sponsor Skillibrium.  Find all of our episodes on iTunes or at https://womensalespros.com/podcast/ Your host for Conversations with Women in Sales is Lori Richardson.

Carole Mahoney has written an excellent book for sales professionals and entrepreneurs on collaborative selling and in changing the sales industry. She mixes in stories, anecdotes and statistics to help one learn and improve around critical sales skills and mindset for success.  00:00 Introduction and Guest Background 00:59 Carol's Journey and Book Contribution 02:48 The Impact of 'Buyer First' on Salespeople 04:57 The Concept of Collaborative Selling 09:20 The Importance of Mindset in Sales 10:56 Overcoming Non-Supportive Beliefs 17:49 Personal Growth Through Writing 'Buyer First' 19:39 Dealing with Bad Sales Days and Final Thoughts   Find Carole on LinkedIn  Order BuyerFirst on Amazon or here: https://carolemahoney.com/books/buyerfirstbook/  

I hadn't planned an episode about "She Sells" but jumped at the chance when a wonderful interviewer, Caroline Jones, offered to ask me about it. This session is dedicated to those who helped me with their stories and stats which are included in the book. It is exciting, too, that it just won "FIRST PLACE" in Top Sales Magazine's Sales Book of the Year. Wow.  00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome 00:26 Discussing the Impact of 'She Sells' 03:06 The Importance of Male Allies in Sales 05:20 The Journey to Writing 'She Sells' 07:11 Addressing Gender Disparity in Sales 07:50 The Impact of the Pandemic on Women in Sales 15:21 The Importance of Diverse Representation in Sales 18:59 Overcoming Biases in the Hiring Process 26:13 Career Growth Opportunities for Individual Contributors 28:51 Promoting Diversity and Inclusivity in Sales 33:28 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Thanks to Caroline - check out her podcast, "Rep Matters"  Find "She Sells" on Amazon - Kindle or paperback. Writing a review really matters - please consider it for either the book OR the podcast!  Join the Women Sales Pros newsletter where we share interviews and discuss upcoming events from all of the women in sales communities.  Need some help finding more women for your sales team or retaining them? Check out Women Sales Pros or reach out to Lori directly through website or LinkedIn.  Visit us on Instagram or X @womensalespros 

Kristie's parents were both in real estate sales and Kristie grew up hearing her parents  talk at the dinner table about commissions, sales, and more. After getting a degree in Journalism from University of Kansas, she ended up as a waitress and then worked for the legendary Kansas City department store called The Jones Co (later became Macy's)  Kristie worked as a sales leader for companies like Network Solutions, Gainsight, and Netskope. Listen how the universe conspired for her to start her own sales consultancy.  This year, 2024, Kristie's new book, "Selling Your Way In" will launch.  Get updates about the book here.  Follow Kristie Jones on LinkedIn here.     Podcasts brought to you by Women Sales Pros. Reach out to help sponsor our efforts! Women Sales Pros has updates on our LinkedIn page, and on our website.  Reach out to Lori Richardson through her LinkedIn profile.  Know of a female sales rep or leader we should interview? Reach out to Lori. Thanks for listening, and the ultimate gift is for you to share on LinkedIn AND/OR post a review on iTunes plus a blurb as to what you liked about it. Thanks in advance. 

We had a big year at Women Sales Pros and now are going through the review of all of our wonderful podcast guests in 2023. I would like to thank all of our guests for their focus and contribution to topics we discussed such as: Getting into sales in the first place as a woman or another "only"  Growing in your sales career Becoming a sales leader - what is required?  Dealing with a "male majority" environment and if you are a leader, how you can improve it.  Various industries, like avation, SaaS, and manufacturing.  Fundamentals for sellers.  And other topics.    We also discussed how you can give us a "5 Star" rating and you can post comments on iTunes which greatly helps our visibility. I'll personally give you a shout out if you and two other people go to iTunes, listen to an episode, and rate it - if all 3 rate it, I'll talk you up on the next episode.    Donate to the Sales Education Foundation's Giamanco Memorial Scholarship for Women in sales programs here: https://salesfoundation.org/barbara-giamanco-memorial-scholarship-fund/index.php   Follow us @WomenSalesPros on Instagram, X, LinkedIn and Facebook.  Send us names of amazing women we should interview - or male counterparts. They must be in B2B selling or managing currently.    Thank you to our listeners, we'd be nothing without you!!  

Riley Blaisdell is currently a Major Market Account Executive at Paycor. In his AE role, I'd say Riley has done more for helping shine a light on women in sales than many senior leaders I know. He has done this through his growing visibility on LinkedIn. Right now during "Women in Sales" month, he's talking up different women in sales each day.  I noticed that Riley has this list of women he gladly shares anytime one of the "bro's" in sales will post a number of guys and here will come Riley's list of some amazing women in sales and sales leadership he's been introduced to.  We wanted to talk Riley up in this episode to show that as a male ally, you don't have to wait until you have a power role in your company to speak up and support the effort for more #womeninsales - you can do it now. If you like the episode, please comment and share it. Ultimately a 5 star review and comment about the podcast on iTunes is a winning move we'd love to see.  Riley Blaisdell on LinkedIn - connect with him!  He references the work of Brene' Brown  If you enjoy this podcast, consider a donation to the Barbara Giamanco Memorial Scholarship to give scholarships to women in Sales Education Foundation recognized Universities and Colleges here.  More at Women Sales Pros - where we're working to help change the face of sales.  Follow Women Sales Pros on LinkedIn, as well as President Lori Richardson  Recommend a woman in a sales role or awesome male ally! They could be featured next. 

Rana Salman, MBA PhD, is the author of the new book, Sales Essentials: The Tools You need at Every Stage to Close More Deals and Crush your Quota. She is CEO of Salman Consulting, started in research, and stumbled (as she says) into sales and consulting.  Rana is also co-founder of WISE (Women in Sales Enablement) We had a great conversation about her childhood and how her dad's sales role made a huge impact on her.  For more info: www.salmanconsulting.com Follow us on Twitter: @SalmanConsult email me: rana.salman@salmanconsulting.com   Women Sales Pros can be found on Instagram and X @womensalespros Connect with us on LinkedIn! https://www.linkedin.com/company/women-sales-pros/

Miram (Mimi) Ebrahim is Brand Sales Leader for the GTM Team at Yelp. She has been in sales and sales leadership for more than eight years and has a background in television production and has an MBA. We talked about how she got into sales in the first place, what she loves about sales, and has tips for reaching prospects in addition to lots of other great advice. "When I think of No, I think of KNOW" and she tells her reps, "Your goal is to build momentum"  Miram talked about staying motivated and being not just a woman in sales, but Egyptian and also a mom.  More on Miram here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/miramebrahim/  Conversations with Women in Sales podcast now has over 160 episodes with amazing sales contributors and sales leaders - large companies and small - new reps and seasoned veterans. If you like the podcast, please SHARE it with another woman or a male ally. Please rate it and review it as we do not get many reviews and really could use them. For more help with adding women to your sales team, reach out to Lori at Women Sales Pros. https://womensalespros.com/

After hearing Rhasheeda Hughes on a panel webinar, I had to invite her to join our podcast so that others could learn about her journey and her strategies for being a successful woman in sales leadership.  Rhasheeda has a proven record as a sales expert, trainer, and team leader with a reputation for enhancing organizational capabilities. She led a national team of 10 Account Managers with full responsibility for team hiring, development, and performance coaching. She is adept at consultative sales strategies based on data-driven analysis and a relentless focus on customer service. Rhasheeda has a reputation as an empathetic leader who builds inclusive culture while coaching individuals to develop high-performing teams. https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhasheeda-hughes-mba-4a81b313/ Conversations with Women in Sales podcast now has over 160 episodes with amazing sales contributors and sales leaders - large companies and small - new reps and seasoned veterans. If you like the podcast, please SHARE it with another woman or a male ally. Please rate it and review it as we do not get many reviews and really could use them. For more help with adding women to your sales team, reach out to Lori at Women Sales Pros.  https://womensalespros.com/

It was a LinkedIn post that got my attention.  Sales managers are acting poorly, according to Tara Ryan's coachees. As an Executive and Leadership Coach, she's heard more complaints from women in sales roles about managers with lack of empathy, perhaps fear-motivated.  I couldn't let the conversation go - so we recorded.  What is important to you in a sales manager?  I wrote about making reps more coachable, with some very interesting data.  Learn more about what a coach does in this conversation with Tara Ryan, Founder of InfiniDEI.    Host Lori Richardson speaks, writes, hosts this podcast, consults, trains and coaches B2B sales leaders and helps their teams grow. Find out more here. 

When you think about careers for women in sales, we typically talk about revenue responsibility roles plus sales leadership. In the past 5-7 years we started to see sales enablement roles as well as RevOps. .Personally I get a little confused between enablement and ops, so I brought on a team of RevOps leaders at Xactly to help us understand what their roles are and how they both got into them. Meet Bayley Fesler, Director, Revenue Ops, and Annie Jones, Revenue Ops Business Partner. Together these women break things down for us and dispel myths about forecasting - it isn't hard anymore, for one thing!  Bayley Fesler, Director, Revenue Ops, Xactly Corp Annie Jones, Revenue Ops Business Partner, Xactly Corp Their latest article about AI and Sales   Podcast is hosted by Lori Richardson, President of Women Sales Pros, a community helping to get more women into sales and sales leadership. Lori is also author of "She Sells: Attract, Promote, and Retain Great Women in B2B Sales" available here on Amazon.  Learn about and donate to the Barbara Giamanco Memorial Scholarship for women in university sales programs here. 

Jaquelin Jenkins is Executive Director of Client Services at Tangible Security, having worked previously at Citrix and other orgs. She graduated from University of Alabama with degrees in Political Science and Communications - so how'd she end up in sales roles? Listen to this episode and learn how she pivoted once she realized how much she loved working with people and the idea of sales in her head for some reason.  As a 5th generation North Carolinian, Jaquelin has a passion for serving her community. If you find this episode inspiring or helpful, please share it! Our goal is to expose more women to all of the roads into B2B sales opportunities and to encourage those in sales to grow in their role - build a career and if it makes sense, to consider sales leadership. 

Radhika Shukla is a long time sales leader in the tech sales space, working for big brands like Microsoft and IBM. in Radhika's own words, she wants everyone to master the art of Sales: Serve passionately, Connect authentically and Thrive collectively. We have a wonderful conversation about all of the skills and traits that women bring to the table when we are able to be our authentic selves.  Join us to learn more. Reach out to Radhika on Linkedin. 

This is an important episode for anyone who has ever been paid less than their peers doing the same role, or who was fired while pregnant (yep, it still happens in 2023) or who got downsized and didn't negotiate severance - my guest, Dan Goodman will cover it all.  Dan is Founder and CEO of TruCommish, an app that helps verify true commission - and Dan also has been shining a light on horrible compensation situations that companies have been doing quietly - to advocate on the part of the seller or sales leader.  We appreciate Dan as a supporter of women in sales and his work with dozens and dozens of women working to solve employment, PIP, and severance issues - in addition to offering advice to others at the same time.  Follow Dan Goodman on LinkedIn - he is an amazing resource and a treasure for us in a time of big layoffs and sometimes poor leadership choices. 

Niya Khatri is a long way from her home of Kathmandu, Nepal. She is a Millenial b2b seller who has lived in Pune, India, Colorado Springs, Toronto, and now the Bay Area, SF. She brings a wonderful and different perspective as a woman of color, as a woman "up and coming" in sales, and has openly helped her employers to improve revenues by looking through a different lens. We had a fun conversation.