Podcasts about bdrs

If you're making Marketing decisions based on your email open rates and click numbers, you might be working with completely made up data. Jay and Daniel break down the bot problem that's quietly inflating every metric in your ESP, and why those garbage scores are exactly why your BDRs and SDRs hate the leads they're getting. Daniel explains why his newsletter uses a honeypot link at the top just to measure how much bot activity is happening, and why clicks should never be the end goal anyway. They also make the case for zero click content and no agenda Marketing: giving your audience real value without asking for anything in return, so when they are finally ready to buy, you are the first brand they think of. Follow Jay: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwedelson/ Podcast: Do This, Not That Follow Daniel: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@themarketingmillennials/featured Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/Dmurr68 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing Sign up for The Marketing Millennials newsletter: https://themarketingmillennials.com/ Daniel is a Workweek friend, working to produce amazing podcasts. To find out more, visit: https://workweek.com/

What happens to all those leads marketing works so hard to generate? More often than not, they go cold. According to Nishi Seth, Industry & Solutions Marketing Lead for Google Cloud APAC, this isn't a niche problem. It's one of the most persistent challenges across B2B, regardless of company size or sophistication. In this episode, Shahin sits down with Nishi to unpack the real reasons leads stall between marketing and sales, from qualification gaps to missing context, and what it actually takes to fix them. Nishi shares battle-tested lessons from scaling Google Cloud's marketing-to-sales motion across APAC, including how AI is transforming BDR productivity right now. Guest Introduction Nishi Seth is the Industry & Solutions Marketing Lead for Google Cloud APAC at Google, with over 20 years of experience across cloud technology, financial services, and travel. She has held senior marketing roles at American Express and British Airways, and is a recognised B2B marketing leader across the Asia-Pacific region. Key Topics Why leads go cold: the two root causes (qualification gaps and context gaps) and why even the most sophisticated B2B organisations struggle with themThe three pillars of an optimised marketing-to-sales handover: lead quality, context, and a continuous review and feedback loopWhy BDRs are the critical bridge between marketing and sales, and how to assess whether your BDR function is actually workingHow MQL definitions should evolve over time: Google Cloud's journey from basic demographic scoring to 48+ real-time intent signals, including account-level qualificationWhat providing context to BDRs really means: enablement calls, campaign-specific opening scripts, and cadences tailored to how each lead engagedThe key metrics that reveal handover health: SAL acceptance rates, SAL-to-SQL conversion, number of outreach touches, and lead velocityHow AI is changing BDR productivity: using automation for low-intent lead follow-up, real-time AI assistants during live sales calls, and AI-powered account research at scaleNishi's rapid-fire take: "strong opinions, loosely held," using AI to boost your own marketing productivity, and why simplifying complexity in B2B is what excites her most Resources & Links Google Cloud — Nishi's base for all real-world examples discussed, from MQL definition evolution to AI-powered BDR toolingGoogle Gemini — Nishi's go-to research tool in place of following influencers; she also used it to prepare for this episode Contact & Credits Host: Shahin Hoda Guest: Nishi Seth Produced by: Shahin Hoda and Alexander Hipwell Edited by: Alexander Hipwell Music by: Breakmaster Cylinder APAC's B2B Growth Podcast is Presented by xGrowth

In this episode, Jason and Paul Salamanca from Cymon AI, talk about how his BDR booked 7 meetings in a single day, the outbound motion two BDRs use to generate 30 to 40 meetings a month, his AI maturity model for sales orgs, and the coaching layer that ties it all together. Check out more free content and get help with outbound at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://outboundsquad.com.⁠

According to Highspot’s Go-To-Market Gap Report, 98% of leaders say their GTM strategy is active, but only 10% see it driving results. The reason for that? Strategy abounds. Real meaningful execution, not so much. So how do you overcome the go-to-market performance gap and bridge that growing rift between strategy and execution? Riley Rogers: Hi, and welcome to the Win/Win Podcast. I’m your host, Riley Rogers. Join us as we dive into changing trends in the workplace and how to navigate them successfully. Here to discuss this topic is Jacob Keith, senior revenue enablement specialist at HealthJoy. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jacob. I’m super excited to dive into your experience. So could you kick us off just by sharing a little bit about yourself, your background, and the role you’re in currently? Jacob Keeth: Yeah, absolutely. Also, Riley, thanks so much for having me on. I’m really grateful and excited that we get the chance to chat about something so consequential and oddly kind of fun. So I’m just looking forward to it. My name’s Jacob. Professionally speaking, I’ve been working in enablement for just shy of five years and worked in sales for a year prior to that doing SDR prospecting work. I’ve done all types of enablement, everything from onboarding-focused work to focusing on BDRs and prospecting. Now at my current company, HealthJoy, it’s been so much fun. We’re operating in primarily a channel sales method, so we’re working through individuals who then sell our product, which has been a really fun and complicated task from the enablement perspective. We’ll dive all into that today. RR: Awesome. So exciting that you’re in a role that’s challenging you and building on all of those skills that you were learning and picking up along the way. Before we jump in, I’d love if you could set the stage for those of us not familiar with HealthJoy—who you are, what you do, who you serve, and then maybe a little bit of that sales motion that you touched on. JK: HealthJoy is a benefits operating system, and really what we do is help make sure that companies’ benefits strategies and plans actually work as designed. What do I mean by that? Well, I’m sure, Riley, as you’ve experienced too, companies typically have a pretty fragmented benefits plan, right? There’s the medical plan, the dental plan, maybe individual solutions. Usually these companies all have different logins, different ways to access them, and there’s not necessarily a concrete place where you can go to get all that information inside of one environment. Also, the reality is, if I’m debating whether I need to go to the ER right now, I can tell you the last place I’m gonna go is logging into my company’s intranet to figure out which ER is best applicable to me and which one is likely gonna work with my insurance. We make healthcare decisions through the path of least resistance, and frankly, they’re usually made in situations where we don’t have the luxury of time. This is really where HealthJoy can come in. With HealthJoy, companies can unite that benefits ecosystem into one seamless platform. We use an AI assistant called Joy AI, as well as human concierges, to give our end members or employees personalized guidance and proactive support. That’s really where HealthJoy finds itself: being that benefits operating system that puts everything together and helps you, Riley, make the right decision at the right time. So that’s the big-picture view of what the company is and what we do. Now, how do we actually do it? The way HealthJoy operates is we work through what you’d call a benefits consultant. Your HR team at your business is probably working with an external benefits agency, consultant, or broker to help curate and strategize that benefits plan to maximize its effectiveness and cost for the business. We work through them, build really meaningful relationships with brokers all across the United States, and then from there, when there’s strategic alignment and the broker believes in us and our message, they’ll introduce us to clients where they think we can help that company advance its mission because they align with the kinds of things we’re offering. So that’s what we’d call a channel sales methodology. We’re working with people who then sell in tandem with us. From an enablement perspective, you’re not only trying to enable your selling team, but you’re also asking: how can I best train these folks to then go and enable the hundreds of brokers they’re all working with individually around the country? RR: I think your marketing and comms team is really gonna be thrilled because that was a great pitch. It almost seems like you have to, as an enabler, play a game of telephone. You have one message to share with folks internally that you then need them to get out the right way externally. It sounds like it’s quite the challenge, especially given that, like you shared, HealthJoy is in kind of a unique position at the intersection of tech and all of the wonderful complexity that comes with healthcare. So how does that industry challenge shape the way your go-to-market teams need to operate, and what kind of challenges does that create for you on the enablement side? JK: Yeah, that complexity gives me a lot of job security. So it is a real challenge. One thing HealthJoy has gotten really good at over the last year is defining who our ideal customer is. Is it the end-user employer? Is it the member who would experience it? Is it the broker we’re targeting? And it really is the broker. Those are the folks we’re working with, building meaningful relationships with, and who can open up so much opportunity for us as a business. When a broker believes in us, it pays huge dividends in both effectiveness and outcomes. At that intersection of tech and healthcare, another interesting element that often shows up in enablement is onboarding. You look at who we hire as our sales reps—we’re looking for people who typically have a strong background in healthcare and great existing relationships with brokers around the United States. Then they’re coming into an environment where maybe they weren’t in a tech environment at all. So how do we equip these individuals to feel really confident in a remote sales environment that’s very tech-forward? HealthJoy as a company is also heavily leaning into AI internally and externally. So convincing our sellers that the direction we’re taking as a company is one they can understand, intuit, and promote into the market is a real challenge. It’s multi-step. An adage I try to live by as an enabler—and this is really a hallmark of adult education—is the question: what’s in it for me? If it’s not relevant for that seller, they’re not going to retain it, even if they want to. Even if their boss is pleading with them, “You have to know this. This has to make sense for you.” If there’s not an immediate connection to why this matters for me and my paycheck at the end of the day, it’s not going to stick. That’s not selfishness. That’s just the reality of how adults learn and prioritize what’s important. So for us, we have to make sure the messages we’re positioning—whether they’re for the seller to use, for the seller to communicate to their broker, or for the end member—have a really clear through line. The rep needs to know what’s in it for them and who that message is for throughout. It can be complicated. It can be a real challenge to make sure we’re nailing that every single time. I get a negative shiver down my spine every time I hear a message about what HealthJoy is that doesn’t align with the message we’re putting out into the market. Because I know for every one rep who says that, there’s probably a dozen brokers who hear it too. And we’re working with brokers over the course of years. So if that broker got a demo of HealthJoy three years ago and thinks, “I know it. I’m good to move forward,” how do we keep our existing brokers who love us educated on what’s happening across the market and how we’re evolving as a company? RR: It’s kind of fascinating. I feel like sometimes you talk to folks and the challenge of bringing in sellers is getting them up to speed on the complex side of the industry. If I’m chatting with fintech customers, it’s understanding the financial environment. Or with health tech customers, it’s learning how to speak about healthcare. But you have the reverse challenge. You’re bringing in sales reps who maybe were in the field or in more traditional spaces, and now you need to get them up to speed on all of the innovation that comes with a tech company. So it’s a very unique challenge, and it sounds like it’s one you’re well-equipped to tackle. You described yourself as someone who really excels at turning ideas into repeatable, measurable processes. I’d love if you could tell us, from your perspective, how you’re connecting strategy to execution, because as that stat we opened with tells us, things tend to get lost in translation. JK: For me, when it comes to turning things into repeatable and measurable processes—especially as an enablement team of one—my thought is this: pick really carefully and be ready to pivot. Especially in a startup environment, odds are if you’re an enablement team of one, you’re in a company that’s still developing. There isn’t a strong adherence to “the way things have always been,” or a large team and lots of infrastructure supporting the organization. It’s you. You are the brand of enablement. Who you represent and how you show up is what enablement is perceived as by your organization every single time. So with that, be really careful about what you choose to make repeatable. I get so many asks every month: “Hey, I’d love to make a process on this,” or “Can we update XYZ?” But I have to be mindful of the opportunity cost of saying yes to developing more things, because all of those things have downstream maintenance and upkeep. It’s more to manage, which steals time I wasn’t intending to give six months from now. So when it comes to measurable processes, we basically say: let’s take the idea and find a couple key metrics. As a team of one, pick one or two that really matter to your executives, then ask yourself: is this worth keeping track of? Is this worth my bandwidth over the next year or two? There’s another line our CEO says frequently: “80% today is better than 100% two weeks from now.” Now, that doesn’t mean deliver lackluster work. But especially as an enablement person, I’m a perfectionist. I want things to look and feel really good. I want them to be intuitive and usable. But sometimes the pace of the organization demands that we move faster. If I can embody the reality that 80% today is better than 100% later, I can deliver work that really matters, drives impact, and still allows me to pivot and adapt quickly. Because the more perfect we make something, the more maintenance it often requires. That’s a profound hidden cost for enablement organizations: what does it cost to maintain the standards you’re presenting? That’s a lesson I’ve had to learn the hard way. I’ve done it well and really poorly at different points in my career. And I think it can really make or break your own love of enablement—whether it’s something you can continue to grow in, or whether you end up stuck inside the castle you built yourself. RR: I think you just gave us a framework of two very practical questions you can ask yourself as you’re looking at a request from your sales team or something coming cross-functionally: Is it going to be valuable for me to invest in this? And what does timely execution look like? How can I get something out that is useful and delivers business value, even if it doesn’t meet every single standard I have? That’s really helpful for anybody who’s trying to ruthlessly prioritize, which I know is hard. JK: Because it’s all important, right? Everyone has great ideas, but if 30 things fall in your lap to manage and maintain, congrats—you just built yourself three jobs, none of which have much capacity to strategically grow in the future. It becomes about project and program maintenance, which is valuable and important, but as a team of one or a lean enablement team, it’s a non-starter. It can’t be part of the equation that often. And when it is, it’s gotta be really important to make it worthwhile. RR: 100%. I wonder if we can ground this thinking in an example. Recently, HealthJoy launched a new go-to-market message. So, when you’re talking about scaling ideas and execution—in this case, a new message and a new market perception—what do you find are the key ingredients to success in making that strategy become reality? JK: Yeah, absolutely. For 2026, our message is: “HealthJoy is the benefits operating system that makes your benefits strategy work as designed.” I think the way we get this to stick in the market with these very disparate audiences is the same story internally as well. We have to make sure everyone’s on the same page. A couple of things stand out for me from an adult education and enablement perspective. First, when you’re talking about large company-wide initiatives, you have to define the problem incredibly clearly. Why is what we’re doing right now not working? Again, getting at that adult education mentality of “what’s in it for me?” The reality is: what’s happening now isn’t working for you. If it’s not a compelling and inspiring vision, people won’t care. They’ll stick with what they’re doing today because the status quo is always easier than change. I need to understand that changing my behavior and changing how I’m presenting messaging in the market means every demo and sales pitch now has to adjust because of this. That’s no small lift. So be really clear about what’s not working now, where we’re going in the future, why it’s better, and why sellers should care. Second: repetition. I’m a really big fan of multimodal learning for reps. That means delivering content through stand-and-present sessions, team trainings, one-on-one conversations, learning management systems, videos—I've even recorded podcasts. You have to hit learners in different ways from where they are. One thing I can never let myself forget is that I cannot assume people are paying attention the first time. They’re distracted with XYZ—you fill in the blank. We owe double the responsibility to be repetitive with our content if we actually want it to stick. Saying, “Well, I trained on it once. I sent the deliverable. I gave the email recap. That should be enough,” isn’t enough. In enablement, we should be asking not whether we think we did enough, but whether it actually worked. And where we can, let’s let reps weigh in on the decisions. Obviously, a single seller probably isn’t going to reshape your whole go-to-market message. But in our case, we had reps test this out in their markets first and give us feedback on what was resonating. Reps felt like they were part of the process from day one because they were brought into those conversations to help steer the organization. When we do these things together, it creates a deep sense of confidence and a steady vision. RR: Yeah, and it sounds like these are all layers of that foundational piece of “what’s in it for you?” How can we message that, and then how can I make sure that everywhere you’re working and telling our story, you have what you need to tell it the right way? I love that it all ladders up to that primary objective. JK: Because it’s fundamentally behavior change, right? How do we actually drive real behavior change instead of just checking boxes that say, “Well, this should’ve changed the behavior”? And in a remote environment, working with sellers who may be coming from non-tech backgrounds, this has to be done with excellence or it’s going to fail. RR: Mm-hmm. And when we’re talking about behavior change, can you share where a tool like Highspot fits into the picture and how you’re using it to bring new programs, processes, and this messaging shift to life? JK: The way I’ve positioned Highspot in the organization—and I think it’s gotten a lot of traction—is that it’s a beautiful place that reps can trust. That’s kind of my tagline for it. Primarily, we use Highspot to organize our internal sales policies, external sales collateral, Digital Rooms, and a couple of AutoDocs. How our reps mostly understand the platform is this: it’s the centralized database where they can trust they’re getting the most up-to-date content. They can send it out through the platform, track it, and see how it’s performing with customers. When I was interviewing for this role, I talked with a couple other enablement leaders, and one thing someone said really stuck with me: “Beautiful things get used.” Highspot, when you put in a little work, can look so pleasing and inviting. It’s just a great UI. When I came into the organization, there were three different versions of content in Highspot. It wasn’t well maintained for a variety of reasons. But I knew that to maximize the effectiveness of the platform, we had to clean it up and create a compelling vision for why reps should use this instead of their own private Google Drive with five downloaded resources. How could I give them a compelling vision that centralization is better? We started by making it really appealing, really beautiful, and simple to navigate. So when we talk about driving behavior change, you need tools in a remote environment that categorize what great looks like, make it really clear, create centralized expectations, and stop reps from running off like lone cowboys and cowgirls across the country. We need a central standard for what great looks like and what good content is. Highspot serves that role well because reps trust it. It’s cleaned up, it’s beautiful, and it’s enjoyable to use. And then on top of that, they get the tracking, benefits, and analytics on the backend. RR: If you look at the data, it shows that what you’re doing is working and that these philosophies are really resonating with your teams because you’ve driven 93% recurring usage of the platform. Pretty much everybody is coming back time and time again. When you’ve made something people want to come back to and find real value in, that’s fantastic. JK: It was honestly one of my proudest moments in my first few months here. When I joined HealthJoy a little over a year ago, Highspot was one of the first projects I took on as an enabler. I thought, “I want to revamp this experience.” At that point, the main concern I was hearing—because I met with every rep individually—was: “I don’t know what content is up to date. It takes me forever to find what I’m looking for.” In my brain, because my previous company used Highspot, I immediately thought: ding, ding, ding. There’s an easy solution to this. We have it. We just need to make this the default behavior. So I did a couple things. One, I pitched and presented it. I met with reps one-on-one to understand their problems, then met with some of them again to say, “Hey, here’s the solution. This is kind of your idea because you said this was an issue.” They had buy-in. Then, I built a treasure hunt, which was basically a 30-question quiz where reps had to navigate through Highspot, find resources, create pages, and complete tasks. Naturally, reps didn’t love the idea of homework. Who would? But about two months into my role, we had an onsite in Chicago. At a team dinner, one of the managers said in front of everyone: “Jacob, we’ve been talking and we’ve all agreed—we’re gonna do your treasure hunt.” That was a key turning point for us. If you want Highspot—or any tool—to work, reps need to have buy-in. And especially on enablement teams of one or two, you’re the brand. If they’re not bought into you, they’re not going to buy into what you’re implementing. RR: On that topic of making life easier, you mentioned a few use cases where Highspot comes into play with both optimization and time savings, especially with Digital Rooms and AutoDocs. With these capabilities fueling external sharing and customization to brokers’ processes, what workflow improvements have you seen, and how has that reduced complexity for the sales team? JK: I’ll give one example. Alongside a formal price quote, we send out a proposal form. It’s the more beautiful, easy-to-read version of the formal quote. It gives the compelling narrative for why someone should use the platform and what’s included in their package. Previously, the process was basically a Google Drive template where reps manually adjusted text boxes. I would hear stories of reps spending two to three hours realigning boxes into a single vertical line. And they’re like, “This is so dumb.” I understood the frustration, but proposals still have to look excellent. There’s no excuse. So that was the first AutoDoc we took on. In some cases, building a proposal was taking reps two to three hours. On average, probably about an hour if everything went well. We streamlined that process dramatically. Every prospect got a proposal, but the process went from 45–60 minutes down to at most 15 minutes, and on average about five. It took me a lot of hours upfront to build, but the payoff was immediate. I think within the first year, something like 70 proposals had already been sent through that auto doc. When I calculated the time savings, I was thrilled. And I could’ve built that AutoDoc six months earlier, but because we didn’t yet have the platform engagement and trust, nobody would’ve trusted what came next. We had to solve the foundational issues first: engagement and trust. Once reps believed this was better than the alternatives, then we could deliver the “chef’s kiss” features. But we had to get them in the door first. Otherwise, we were dead on arrival. RR: I really like that framing of building the foundation first and spending time building trust. Now that you have adoption and users are bought in—sending proposals, sharing content, tracking engagement—what impact would you say this work has had on the business overall? JK: I think it was the first case under my stewardship of enablement at HealthJoy where I could say: “I hear you. This project was done in response to your needs. Trust me with the solution, and you’re going to see the positive outcome because of it.” It showed a really clear way that, as a solo enabler, I could offer real value and build a strong partnership with the sales team. Because I’m not their boss. I’m their peer who’s here to think strategically alongside them and help them win revenue more easily. I also think the Highspot rollout set us on a trajectory where we could repeat that process. The change in go-to-market messaging came on the heels of Highspot. Even though they weren’t the same project, that organizational muscle had already been exercised successfully. RR: You’re in a fast-moving startup environment, and now you have that central source of truth so that as things change, you can help your reps change with them. As we’re wrapping up, if there’s one crystallizing theme for enablement teams operating with limited capacity or as a team of one, what advice would you give on prioritization and focusing efforts to drive the most impact? JK: I’m learning this lesson a lot right now. As an enablement team of one—or even two—have really great partnerships and open conversations across the business: with your CEO, your C-suite, sales leaders, marketing, and product. You really do serve as connective tissue. One thing I can struggle with is getting so stuck in training, training, training that I forget to ask: what’s the highest-impact thing I can spend my time on to drive business outcomes? That may be training, but it may also mean joining tiger teams across the business, helping investigate new products or strategies, and bringing an enablement perspective into implementation planning. So keep an ear to the ground. Stay responsive to business needs. Be open to pivoting quickly. Don’t pigeonhole yourself into saying, “In enablement, I do onboarding and training, and that’s it.” Enablement is dynamic by design, and that’s why I love it so much. I’ve joked that any six-month snapshot of my enablement career would probably look like a completely different job description. That’s just the name of the game. So embrace change. Look for where the cheese is moving, and don’t get mad that your cheese got moved. Also, champion your successes. Especially in a small enablement team, people want to know what’s happening. But in a remote environment, if you’re not shouting from the rooftops about the cool things you’re doing, they won’t get seen. That’s just reality. So especially for newer enablement pros, don’t be afraid to champion your work because it’s super cool. And finally, going full circle to what we talked about at the beginning: only scale the things that aren’t going to steal your time. Scale the things you’re willing to continue investing in. That’s what keeps you dynamic, strategic, and able to adapt to new opportunities while still helping champion your reps across the organization. RR: I think it’s really powerful that every piece of advice you just shared ties directly back to examples from your own work. Even that last point—“scale what doesn’t steal your time”—showed up in your proposal example. Yes, it took time upfront, but it saved time down the line and was the right place to invest. Thank you for such practical and applicable advice for anyone trying to prioritize, manage competing asks, and figure out where to focus their efforts.Really wonderful insights throughout this conversation. We’re so grateful you took the time to share them with us. JK: Thanks so much, Riley. This has been a ton of fun. RR: To our audience, thank you for listening to this episode of the Win Win podcast. Be sure to tune in next time for more insights on how you can maximize go-to-market success with Highspot.

In this episode of the Founder's Sandbox, Brenda McCabe sits down with growth advisor and author Vanessa Golsby to explore what it really takes to scale private equity-backed SaaS companies. Vanessa shares the story behind her new book, The $100M Push: The Four Decisions PE-Backed SaaS CEOs Make to Deliver Growth in 100 Days, and reveals the four critical decisions CEOs must lead to build scalable, resilient growth: defining the ideal customer profile, aligning go-to-market execution, making strategic investment decisions, and creating long-term operational accountability. Drawing from her experience advising more than 100 middle-market software companies and serving as an operating partner in private equity, Vanessa offers an inside look at how investors think, why commercial alignment matters, and how CEOs can create predictable growth through disciplined execution. The conversation also explores the role of generative AI in modern go-to-market strategy, the importance of reputation and purpose-driven leadership, and the entrepreneurial leap Vanessa took to launch her own advisory firm. This episode is packed with practical insights for founders, SaaS executives, and growth leaders looking to scale with clarity, confidence, and purpose. You can find out more about Vanessa at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-goolsby/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/vanessa-goolsby https://vanessagoolsby.com/ Or order her book at: https://www.amazon.com/100M-Push-Decisions-PE-Backed-Deliver/dp/1963549309 Transcript: 00:04 Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host. Now in the fourth season, the Founder's Sandbox is a podcast that gathers business owners, founders, professional service providers. 00:31 and corporate directors. And we all are working towards the same mission, which is building scalable, resilient, purpose-driven companies to build a better world. We do this with underpinning, with great corporate governance, and really working with the founders to build that resilience and scalability. My guest, um join me here in what I like to consider a fun sandbox. 00:55 And this month, my guest, I'm actually delighted to invite Vanessa Golsby. Vanessa's joining me from, is it Dallas? Dallas, that's right. Dallas, Texas. So um more here, but thank you Vanessa for joining me on the Founder's Sandbox. And I wanna give a brief introduction to why Vanessa's here today. There's multiple um boxes that she checks, largely Vanessa. 01:22 has her own firm. She is a growth advisor who specializes in scaling private equity back middle market software companies. And it's an interesting time and that space that I'm certain we're going to get to a question here in a minute about the impact of generative AI and all those models out there and the effect on software businesses. You're a seven-year veteran as an operating partner. 01:48 in two private equity firms and portfolio SaaS CEOs. She has helped more than 100 middle market software companies drive growth, execute go-to-market companies, go-to-market, pardon me, turnarounds, and deliver investor returns through sharper commercial execution. That's all in the commercial execution, isn't it, Vanessa? That's right. Yeah. And prior to advising, she was a former operator leading product and commercial. 02:16 teams for 18 years at brands like Travelocity and Financial Times, which I didn't know that when we first were talking. I hadn't realized when we had our first conversations of your corporate experience with Travelocity and Financial Times. So you brought a lot of that corporate kind of know-how into the private equity world and you actually started your own firm. it four months back? 02:44 October, October of 2025. My goodness. So you're not even into your first year. I know. So, and, and, uh, you are an author. So your book, um, so I don't know when you found the time, Vanessa, but your book, the 100 million push the four decisions PE backed as SAS CEOs make to deliver growth. And a hundred days is out. 03:13 Matter of fact, this last week and we're in the third week of April, it uh hit bestseller, right? That's right. Amazon. Yeah. And in that book, we'll get into it. You distill the framework that you've developed. I don't know when, while setting up your own firm, but you developed over decades in the trenches, codifying the sequence behind the big four decisions. 03:40 that enable CEOs to scale with speed, clarity, and confidence. So welcome to the Founder Sandbox. Great. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here. Well, I always like to start with uh my guests to really talk about your origin story. And I think what's very appropriate for today's uh episode is what drove you to actually write a book, right? 04:09 because it distills both your professional as well as um this new tool that you got out there in the market. Yeah, you know, I never thought I would set out to write a book, if I'm being honest. I had, I'd spent, at this point, I'd spent probably about five years as an operating partner, so as a growth advisor for PE firms. And so in that role, I had been 04:38 pretty well practiced at writing best practices. So I understood how to codify a framework and explain it, you know, in long form, basically. But I never had dreams of being like a full author, like writing a book is totally different than writing a best practice. uh But a really strange thing happened about five years into my career as an operating partner. So I'd had about 18 years, as you mentioned, like in the trenches, like a tactical, and then about five years as an advisor. 05:06 And um over the course of those five years, I had developed for myself this framework because when I moved to the firm that I was at at that point, I was having to work on about 10 software companies at a time. And it's really difficult to show results uh efficiently when you're having to focus on so many different companies who have different industries and different sizes and different needs. And so I created this framework just so I could work at scale. 05:35 And uh I had been running it probably about three years at this point when I needed to go back and take a look at some of my case studies. So I wanted to collect case studies. And luckily, because I was still at the firm, I was able to get access to actual data from these companies that had been running the framework. And oftentimes what happens, because I focus on middle market software, there's a sales cycle. So oftentimes what happens 06:04 is we'll run through this framework and we'll see immediate results by way of pipeline and maybe bookings depending on the sales cycle time. But oftentimes we don't see the actual bookings and revenue results until a quarter or two after, depending on what it is that we're selling. So this was really the first time that I had really paused and like done, if anybody here has had to do a case study or fact finding exercise for a PE firm, know like what a... 06:32 slog it is to have to like go look through all this data. I like found the time, I prioritized it. And what I found was, I mean, there was no surprises in terms of like when we wrapped up our, usually my engagements, I try not to be there longer than 90 days. So it's either a 30 day, 60 day or 90 day plan that we run through. It's pretty tight ah in terms of how we manage through it. So by the end of our... 06:57 I have a sense of some results, like whether it's pipeline or early bookings. have some walking away knowing that we've seen some lift, but this was the first time I'd been able to go back like a couple of years to see like, what about those first companies that ran through it? And I'll tell you, Brenda, I fell out of my chair. I was like, I cannot believe the consistency. You can see in the data, like the trajectory, the upward trajectory from when we started working on the framework and then where they were today. And 07:27 At that, that was like the first seed. Like that was like a Thursday. And I was like, I don't know what to do with this information, but I have this information. Oh my gosh, this works. can't believe it. Right. And I really had to sit with that. And over the course of like two or three weeks, a few other things kind of happened that led me to the path of writing a book. Um, and one of those is I was listening to a podcast. I'm an avid podcast listener. 07:54 And I was catching up on April Dunford. She wrote a book on positioning. Obviously awesome. It's a great book for positioning. And I was going to have to run a positioning workshop. And so I was like, oh, let me like get into my head back into the game on messaging. So I just like queued up like the latest podcast I could find from her and then went on a run. And then I was like a captive audience. I went on this run. It turns out the podcast I had queued up was not about positioning. It was about her journey as an author and writing her book. 08:23 So I spent an hour listening and getting really inspired. And when I came back from that run, I thought, you know what? I have to tell the people, there is a way to consistently build and scale companies when they're going from, my framework is very from 10 to that first 100 million. And so that was really the inspiration for me. then it's just been a journey from there. 08:52 We'll get to it, but you uh codified um when you had those aha moments, right? You went back and looked at the cohorts of the companies that you had been working with, right? 30, 60, 90 day framework, for lack of another word. Can you share what are those four things that enterprise SaaS CEOs do? 09:18 Sure, so my framework is an order of operations. So everything that happens at the beginning has like downstream implications on the other activities. And originally when I created this order of operations, I hadn't high leveled it in terms of four decisions. I did that for the book because I wanted to write the book for CEOs. CEOs are such a, especially going to the first hundred million. CEOs. 09:45 have to have their hand on the strategic wheel of commercial growth. not yet mature, they haven't yet matured out of that. There is a place over a hundred where you can start to delegate more of the idea of commercial strategy to like a, you know, top tier executive CRO, for example. But when you're working on the path, especially if you're PE-backed to a hundred, you really need to stay involved. And that had, I had noticed that that core ingredient oftentimes was 10:15 one of the gaps I was inadvertently closing when I was working with these companies. And so because of that, I wrote the book for CEOs. And since I was writing it for CEOs, I was like, oh, I need to go one level higher than my traditional order of operations, which is very like activity sequenced and like talk about more of like, what is like, what is strategy? Strategy is making a decision and committing to it. So what are the four decisions that a CEO needs to direct and commit to have their team commit to in order to see this growth? 10:44 And those four decisions kind of tell the story of growth from up to the first hundred million. Frankly, it's kind of the same above a hundred, except the last decision actually becomes the first decision over a hundred. But anyway, that's right. So four decisions that CEOs that you were saying that are 10 and get to and to get in order to get to a hundred million, they have to be really continuously involved. 11:13 in the growth of the company. They cannot delegate until they reach that um upper level. They don't necessarily need to direct or be boots on the ground in these areas. But when they make these decisions and they guide their teams and champion these decisions, what happens as a byproduct of this is they inadvertently align their business in a way that is 11:43 successful for commercial strategy. So for example, I'll just walk through the decisions quickly to give you an example of how this works. um So the first decision, I high level it as the ideal customer profile or the ICP, which is just another way of saying who are we going to target? And my bit, my specialization is being PE backed. So part of what CEOs and companies hire me for is certainly the pattern recognition of working on over a hundred software engagements. 12:13 but also that sort of behind the scenes view of what the investor is expecting. you know, bringing that idea. When your PE backed, once that investment round closes, are inadvertent, not inadvertently, you are inherently um signing up to expand and grow either within your market, into an adjacent market, or in some other capacity. And just by that definition, you need to, 12:41 understand who your target is going to be, who your best buyer is going to look like for this next round of growth. So it's generally, this is such a major trigger event, this idea of becoming um PE backed, that it's generally a signal for CEOs to say, okay, now let's take a look and see if our existing customer today is going to get us to where we need to be in five years. Because that's five year journey is what you've signed up to take on essentially. So the first 13:10 The first decision is that ICP decision. Once we have an understanding of who we're going to target, then we focus, especially with the commercial side, we focus on how are we going to turn those targets into opportunities, right? So in software, it very much goes from like lead to opportunity to closed one deal, right? So that's what I mean when I say opportunities and or pipeline opening. And this idea of how do we turn targets into opportunities? I high level this decision as the SLA. 13:40 which is a pretty common service level agreement. in this framework, it covers about five or six very specific decisions that your sales, marketing, channel partner and CS teams need to align around to ensure that the build of their lead management system and how they're qualifying those leads to become opportunities is sufficient enough to have some predictability. like you have some confidence that when you put a dollar out, 14:10 into a marketing campaign, it's going to convert into pipeline, really, right? And then ideally into bookings from there. And so that's the second decision. the first one, who do we target? ICP decision. The second, how do we turn those targets into opportunities? The SLA decision. Once you reach... 14:29 Once you have the confidence and some predictability flowing through, now you're ready to make a more strategic decision. And these last two decisions are really where the CEO not just champions, but takes an active role in the decision making. The next one is the contribution decision. So this is now that we know who we're going to target and we understand and have confidence that when we target those buyers, they are going to turn into customers. The next question is where do we invest? 14:57 to go get more of those targets. So who's going to contribute to our revenue number? How much are we going to put into channel partners? How much are we going to invest into marketing? How much are we investing into outbound? How much are we investing into PLG or a self-serve motion, right? How much is new? How much is expansion? And in this decision, we start to bring the CFO in to take more of a governance posture around commercial. So we give the CEO more context around 15:26 Some of the horse trading that typically happens in a silo between the teams. We now have those kinds of conversations around investment decisions and headcount and budgets all together in a room. I run this like a workshop, but all together in a room. And the book teaches the CFO and the CEO how to run this on their own. Excellent. for kind of the terminology that I would use and correct me if I'm wrong, it's kind of capital allocation. So a bit more rigor. 15:56 is brought in with this discipline of budgeting, right? You're talking about contribution decisions, So it's budgeting, capital allocation, and um bringing another uh kind of the controller of the purse strings, the CFO. That's right. Right? And jointly with the CEO are posturing and actually sprinkling it down to their direct reports, I suspect. 16:25 Right. Well, we so the way that I teach contribution modeling is everyone needs to be in the room. No one function, not the CFO, not the CEO, not the CRO can make these decisions for the entire commercial team who is actually going to need to. Yes, it is a budget allocation exercise, but actually that's the second step. The first step, it's a goal setting exercise. oh We break down. 16:53 Each of those pipeline sources has different stages, which we just got very deep on in our SLA decision. So we understand what those stages are called. We understand how long we expect somebody to stick in those stages. We understand what those conversion rates are through those stages. And now that we have some sense of those inputs, we basically enabled ourselves to sign up for a number. So now we can look at marketing and we can say, oh 17:22 If you're gonna sign up for a million dollars in pipeline this year, that means at this selling price, you're gonna drive this many deals, right? At this conversion rate, at this close rate, this means you need to have this many opportunities and that this conversion rate from lead to opportunity, you need to drive this many leads. Can you drive this many leads? And the marketing person's like, that's a lot of leads. I don't know if I can drive that many leads, right? 17:48 And if they hesitate and they say like, can't realistically get that many, we look around the room and we say, okay, who else can drive more leads? Let's look at channel partners. Now we do the same thing from referral to meetings booked to, know, et cetera, et cetera down the So it's very like, it's very precise in terms of setting goals at the funnel stages, but not to become that, like we're not expecting frankly, to get a bullseye out of this workshop. What we're doing is we're kind of snapping the chalk line to say, 18:17 Okay, this is what we think we can go do. And now we're gonna meet with the CFO leading, we're gonna meet every two weeks or every month, and we're gonna see how we're doing. Are we driving this many leads for marketing? Are we getting this many referrals from channel partners? Are we booking this many meetings through the BDRs? And if the answer is no, then we look around the room. Where else can we do it this month? So we have something we can react to in real time, and rather than showing up to the board meeting and saying like, yeah, it was kind of a miss, but I think we have some ideas for next quarter. 18:46 Like this puts everyone in a position now to become far more reactive to what's happening in real time uh as a group, as like a singular one team. And what about the fourth? Yeah, so the fourth decision. And again, this decision is fourth when you're going to 100 million. But if you were above 200 million or as you like progress to like four up to a billion, this actually can become sometimes the first decision. 19:14 when you kind of need to work your way to this point um for when you're going to 100 million, especially after the contribution decision, that contribution. Yeah. Cause that's going to surface a lot of ahas for teams. Like oftentimes you're like, Oh, actually we need to break into a new market. We're saturated or, my gosh, you know, like we need a, you know, too many, we need a ton more reps or actually we don't need more new sale reps. What we need is expansion reps and really need more there. So 19:43 Like in that contribution conversation, you really surface so many of your growth levers that you're prepared for the fourth decision. So the fourth decision is now that we know who we're going to target and we know with confidence how we're going to turn those targets into opportunities. And we understand where we're going to investigate more of those targets. Now we talk about how are we going to do this over the long term? So how are we going to do this not just this year, but for the hold period? So for five years. 20:10 And so this decision I high level as the OKRs, which is an industry term. I didn't come up with that, but it stands for objectives and key results. And it's essentially gives the CEO like almost like a project management framework for long-term planning. um And you really can't necessarily jump to number four if you're going up to that hundred day plan without having these first three decisions at least somewhat cemented or somewhat committed to. 20:39 um Otherwise, what ends up happening is your OKRs are, you know, have like 25 things you're going to try and go tackle. So you kind of like, kind of, you know, by just by um the effort of making these first three decisions, you've already like started to prioritize for your team where the important levers are that you're going to focus on. 21:01 Thank you. I wanted to ask you by publishing this book, are you putting yourself out of business? That's a good question. A grow-to-market advisor, The enterprise SaaS sector that's under a lot of pressure right now with the dinner to bay eye. So let's take the two questions. Let's take them apart. And I'm being a bit. It's a great question. I asked myself that question. Yeah. 21:29 Yeah, my publisher asked this too. Why put it out there? You're putting yourself out of business or no? Yeah. Well, you know, the way I, there's a couple of answers to this, a couple of dimensions to this. The first is, you know, a lot of the motivation to write this book was to get the word out. Like when I saw the consistency and how well the results sustain when companies run through this framework, I was like, Oh my. 21:56 Why aren't we telling all of the CEOs that there's a way to go do this? Like we know these activities, it's things like territory planning and quota setting and SLAs. like, know, people know that activities that need to happen, but the unlock here is the sequence, like it's important to do them in order and that they're done altogether, which is the role of the CEO, right? Is to ensure that the right people are in the room when you're making these decisions and everything's like. 22:24 That's the those are the connectors right is are the those are the interlocks are the decisions the activations happen You know within the function so I? Was passionate like we talk about purpose the reason I was excited to be on this podcast is because this is very purposeful for me It felt like holy cow Look what I discovered under the pyramid I got to tell the people like there's an easier way to do this We don't have to bang our head against the wall to try and figure this out the hard way so 22:53 In that way, it didn't really feel like an option to necessarily hide it. ah And then the other side of me thought about it in terms of like changing the oil in my car. Like, I know that I can change the oil in my car. It's not a difficult, complex process. Like, it's very straightforward. But do I want to do, do I want to like get in coveralls and crawl underneath my car, like find the little lackey thing? No, I don't want to do any of that. I would far rather just bring someone in. 23:22 take the guesswork out, have it done, have it done correctly the first time, and leverage someone else's expertise in case they find something that I wasn't expecting. ah So I feel like I'm still bring, like when people leverage me to run through this, I'm still bringing a lot of value that you're not gonna necessarily get out of the book. mean, people, CEOs and firms hire me because of the pattern recognition and because I've seen these things play out enough times across different industries. 23:51 uh But I don't want to be a holdup. Like, please, if you are able to do it, then I welcome, I encourage you please to go run these plays yourself. And I try to give a lot of, it's very structured. This book is, the structure of this book was really difficult to come up with. It probably took me the longest amount of time, honestly. But I wrote it in a way that a CEO could read it quickly, because I know they don't want to read too many things. They are very busy. um 24:18 And so like they could digest it quickly and they could hand it off because that's kind of their role is to say like, I'm going to now equip my leaders to go do this and do it successfully. And they still have a role to play. But again, they don't have to be like in the trenches. Right. And without um seeing the book right now, I sound and Kendall on audibles or Kendall, um are there like exercises? Are there, is it like a handbook or is it um I'm a CEO? I 24:48 read your book um and I want to contact you. Do I to come in and maybe do some seminars? How does that work? Because this is a marketing tool as well. Yeah, yes. mean, of course I this book can be just a step by step guide for CEOs and their teams if they want to take it that way. So I tried to write it dimensionally. So the first dimension is 25:13 It equips the CEOs to understand, like the first two chapters are really around what is the investor expecting of you? Basically it's like, here's a little bit of the behind the scenes. Yeah, that was intriguing for me when we first spoke of it. Yeah, you've been in that room. Yeah, like I've been in it. Yeah, exactly. like, you know, one of the things that, again, like a lot of things happened in this like two or three week time period when I was kind of coming to the conclusion that I was going to write this book. And one of them was I was in a board. 25:44 meeting and there was a CEO advisor also in this board meeting and I could see the CEO advisor was um giving great advice based on their singular experience but the truth is is their experience was so unique to them that it would be really difficult it'd be like saying like 26:07 Yeah, just, once you press post, it's gonna go viral. It's like, let's not over promise here, you know, what's realistic. And that really hit me to say like, oh, this is a unique perspective. Like I'm not necessarily an investor and I'm not a CEO. it's been years since I've like managed a commercial team or been a GM, but I have... 26:34 I've flown all of those altitudes and I've been an observer in all of those rooms so many times that like the patterns, you just can't deny the patterns. um So yeah, I'll stop there. I'll pause there. So you do the reveal, right? So for any CEOs of enterprise, um SAS companies, this is a must read, right? Because you're doing the real deal. What is actually happening in the boardrooms of those private equity? uh 27:05 partners right that are yes looking at their portfolio companies yes yes thank you yes so i start with like you need to equip yourself with understanding what is expected of you when you took this investment which isn't frankly always talked about like it's not always revealed to the CEO ah so that's the first step and then it is a step-by-step guide so like there are the four decisions and then within each decision 27:33 I show them the book is structured to show them, tell them what the decision is, give them some case studies of other companies who have solved it, give them some red flags that say like, look, this is a really helpful book if you just closed your investment and you need to run like a, they call it a hundred day plan of like, you're going to deploy a lot of that, those investment dollars very quickly in order to like try to get traction on growth. So this is, I wrote it in that framework just because it is naturally 28:00 predisposed to running in like a 90 day plan framework anyway. um But it's also one that oftentimes in a hold period, you're going to hit some kind of plateau, right? It's very rare to like knock a home run out of the park right out of the gate. And so I also, so like in that, in that first part, so like each part, each decision has a part. So there's like a part for, there's like a four chapters on ICP, four chapters on SLA, four chapters on contribution. 28:26 The first chapter tells you, like gives you the red flags to look for if this is an issue, tells you what the investor is expecting, tells you your role and how you can direct the team, tells you when you need to maybe outsource, like what's the things you should absolutely do and the things that are kind of like nice to haves. Then the next chapter goes into how do you make this decision? And each of these decisions, the way that my approach is, 28:53 Um, is I like to do like 50 % gut and like 50 % data. So I always start my engagements with like surfacing from your internal experts already. Like a lot of times your C-suite lieutenants. Yeah. They like, I get called in for audits. Like that's like oftentimes I'm brought in initially for an audit of some kind. And in that audit, it's like a 360 commercial audit. And in that audit, I have like a week that I just cap off and I talk to anyone that you'll let me talk to. 29:23 And they're telling me the problems. like, this is really like, we've known this is very rare for people to like, I have no idea. They know what they did to get here. And so we start with the gut. And so in this framework for the book, the gut is surfaced through workshops. I'm a huge advocate of workshops. think, you know, honestly, my time with Vista really beat this into me, like the importance and the value of workshops, because not only is it a great place to surface everyone altogether, but it's 29:52 early adoption. Like when your voice is heard and you could challenge something in the room, when the decision is being made, you're far more likely to adopt it when we get to the final output. So I'm a huge fan of workshops. So each of these has a workshop. And this is a lot by and large when I'm training, when I'm teaching the CEOs, it's like, this is what you need to get out of the workshop. This is agendas. You can, have all of my agendas are up for download. Like you can download the agenda. You can run through it yourself. And this is who needs to be. 30:21 Yeah, like I want this to be helpful. That's the whole point is like it's supposed to be taking the guesswork out for the CEOs. uh And then you need to there's a data validation. Like, yeah, everyone's got gut. But then we do need like we are going to make some commitments here. So exactly. Yeah. So we need to like in each of these have different places that you go and source that data to validate. uh 30:43 So that's how we make the decision. Then I go through how you execute the decision. And for CEOs, this is almost like the TLDR. It's like, give you like, look, these are the steps that they're go through. Then in each of these chapters, I go far more into detail. This is what you're gonna go tell, like this is what your management team is gonna go do. And this is what good is gonna look like. So you're not done with this step until you've seen these five things come out of this exercise, essentially. 31:07 And then finally, each of these parts, so we've got like, what is the decision? How do we execute the decision? I'm sorry, how do we make the decision? How do we execute the decision? And then how do we measure the decision? And this goes back to how your growth story. So a CEO's role is not just to understand, right, our long-term objectives that may be surfaced in our investment thesis, right? Those are the first two chapters. It's not just coordinating the execution and setting the priorities and resourcing your team, right? Those are the four decisions. 31:37 But you also need to tell that story and you need to tell it in a way that makes you show well, that makes your company show well, and that makes you more attractive, frankly, at your next round of investment. so, yeah, externally telling exactly. So as well as internally. that's right. So that was really long winded, but that's basically the structure. It goes pretty far into detail, but I do. 32:02 high level for CEOs, like you can skip this part, just give it to your zero. So, so the book is out and um you started as you went rogue yourself and said, I'm working for myself and yeah, that's right. And um what happened is you've got some of your clients that had seen your, your work in prior years and, have taken you on as their advisor. 32:31 Why are they taking you on? it around your, are you scalable or your purpose? I mean, you're wanting to give back. So yeah, tell me. And you shared a little bit when we were talking before the podcast about you got a call from a client that you had from many, many years ago. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, when I was deciding to go out on my own, it was really scary, right? Because I had, I never really even, I, I had been motivated to write the book. 33:00 And that was almost as far as my thinking had gone. And then at that point, the book was supposed to come out. Originally, the book was supposed to come out in January and we could have a whole other podcast about writing a book. so originally it was kind of, I knew like internally, I was like, gosh, by October, I was like, I need to make a decision. Like, what am I going to do? Am I staying? Am I going? Am I doing something else? And so I reached out to every person that, that I, you know, had some sort of like respected conversation, like a respected relationship with. 33:29 over the course of my career. And I basically asked him like, what do I do? What would you do? And I'm really lucky because at this point, I had been an advisor for about seven years, you know, with really established firms and the folks that I had worked with, that knew me, knew what I could do, had since gone on to a million other firms. So like my network on the firm side was pretty large. 33:59 And in those conversations, there was just inevitably a conversation that ended with like, look, if you go, I'll give you your first client right now. And so I was like, well, there you go. Close the door, a window, let's go. That was how it went. Yeah, so you reached out to your network, which is super powerful. Yeah, it really was. And it was honestly, I had surfaced my network throughout kind of writing the book because 34:27 You know, one of the things I think that is unique about my situation versus some of the other authors who have written fantastic, and I'm an avid business book reader, Fantastic Frameworks, is that my perspective is from the operating partner's point of view. And I am, yeah, it's very like, and so I'm really lucky because I, as I mentioned, like a lot of the folks that I have worked with over the years are now at so many different firms. 34:57 And so as I was writing this book, I would send out surveys to people and just say, Hey, just like gut check, do you see this too? Are you seeing this? Like when I wrote a whole chapter on like the value creation plan and you know, the value creation plan is one of those things that people talk about. Like it's this like standardized formal process, but it's wildly different, like firm to firm, like it's so totally different. And I just wanted to uh get a better sense of how these different firms of these different sizes were actually running their value creation plans. 35:26 And that's just impossible for me to do by myself. Like I need my network for that. So this whole process has been really great. And just like also bringing together some of my work friends that I hadn't been able to really, or I hadn't like, you know, kept up with as well as I should have. And so now I feel like my network is just like really thriving and humming. And I feel so much closer to like these people now than I have in a long time. So it's been really beautiful in that way. 35:54 Thanks for sharing. know, I want to ask you how has, well, your frameworks be at all affected in your opinion by the generative AI and how it's taken quite a bit of value out of the stock market. So now it's back up, right? So let's, so was, are you isolated from that effect? Your, your, your, your, just your, your frameworks. 36:22 Yeah, you know it's funny I wrote this book so I've done a lot around writing best practices for AI for go-to-market teams so I was pretty what by the time I wrote this book I had a lot of already like pretty packed research and thinking around AI and what it could do and what it couldn't do. I of course how could I you know I wrote this book almost two years ago now like 36:46 has really changed the game and just some of the new models that have come out. We knew that they were gonna be pretty revolutionary, but it was hard to be very specific. But I did, in the book, I have a very specific point of view on how AI can ah make what you do more effective, more scalable, where can use what you are bringing to the table and... uh 37:12 The word is escaping me, which is ironic scale, basically what you could do. And so that's my approach to AI and it's still my approach to AI. So I don't see AI as a competitor. I see it as an accelerator, really. And so I'll take account scoring as a great example. So in this idea of 37:38 these four decisions, one of the activities that you inevitably will need to do, it's under the ICP decision. So once you have an understanding of who you're going to target, you want to then score the accounts that are in your database to say like, is this a tier one, is this a tier two, is this a tier three, is this a tier four, and we're not gonna like, they're actually gonna churn too fast for them to even be worth that selling to. And so you're building out this account scoring model. Now, there are platforms that can just do this for you. 38:06 and they're just like, look at your data and they're like, great, we're gonna do this for you. But those platforms don't know your growth plan. They don't understand like what your investment thesis is. They don't understand that you have a very concentrated point in time where you're going to make, you know, a 30 % CAGR, you know, you've got like big, big goals. You're not just trying to do status quo every year. And so it's in that same kind of vein, like the human still needs to drive and be the director of... 38:33 where the AI is going to execute. um But AI is a fantastic accelerator. I'm excited. I love partnering with AI. It's not perfect. I think of it as almost like an MBA intern, like whip smart, smarter than I will ever be. But you can't totally take your hands off the wheel. You're like, there's context. That's great analogy. Oh my goodness, that's hilarious. It is true. um 39:03 AI. particularly like the perplexity model because it's on top of all of them for uh writing and preparing some of the work I do with my clients. So it becomes my companion is what I call it. Right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely. Excellent. Well, I'd like to give you an opportunity to share how my listeners can reach out to you. Oh, sure. They'll be in your notes. Vanessa. Carry on. Okay. Great. 39:32 So I have a website Vanessa ghouls be calm I'm also on LinkedIn both ways You know are pretty easy ways to just you can look at my calendar and schedule time if you're interested Often time like my most most of the ways that I get brought into engagements is There is some kind of trigger event where the CEO or the PE firm Says like we need we need some 39:59 things, some kind of audit, some kind of assessment, some kind of strategy, some kind of like, what are our growth levers, right, to get us to whatever the next thing is. It's generally a two to four week audit. em And as I mentioned earlier, it combines interviews with your team with I have like a list of artifacts that we start off with. It's, I don't want to say it's like diligence, because it's not like diligence. But it is a pretty thorough 40:25 uh So you get sales, marketing, customer success, channel partners, digital, all of that. uh And oftentimes CEOs will have like a specific need on top of that. you know, I've got one where I just did one where it was like, we want to see, you know, we know we just got our investment came through and we kind of need to set our hundred day plan. So where should we go? You know, what are the foundations we need to build and fortify for this next round? uh We have one. 40:53 One other trigger that's pretty common is on the back of maybe M &A, where you have like two go-to-market teams that need to integrate together. Yeah, they like will bring me into sales. How are we gonna do that? Yeah. Or they have done that and maybe they're still not quite hitting that like expansion number that was originally conceptualized. um And then, yeah. And then the third, which is, I mean, it's like the... 41:21 the least positive, but honestly, the most exciting for me is, you you're like an a mid hold plateau. You're like, gosh, you know, I had one just last month where it was like, they hit this $30 million ceiling and they for like three years have thrown every spaghetti they could at the wall and just could not get past this ceiling. And, um, and so like the audit can, it's very focused and like trying to get to whatever the objective is, but it's, it's holistic because my whole, my whole shtick, right. Is that like, 41:51 It's no one team. It's like all of the teams kind of have to interlock in a line together. Yeah. Yeah. Quite revealing. Excellent. Those are excellent use cases. Um, and we'll put this in the show notes as well as your website and Vanessa. Um, let's come back to the sandbox. I do like to do a round of just questions about three words and what is the meaning for you. Um, and each of my guests comes up with their own um interpretation, their own meaning. it's 42:19 So what does resilience mean to you, Vanessa? Yeah, think resilience means being internally motivated. There's a drive that is not necessarily anchored or reactive to anything that's happening externally. uh For some reason, you just can't let it go. 42:47 How about scalable? What's scalable? Oh, wow. I mean, spent so many years uh writing about being scalable. Yeah, you know, it's funny when I think about being scalable, you know, it actually initially comes to mind as like growing pains, like this idea of growing pains. uh And I'm just now kicking myself for not reading the prep questions closer. We're going to rip a little bit, but. 43:15 But yes, being scalable is having that resilience through the growing pains, knowing, right, having like some kind of faith that at the end it's gonna be bigger, better, probably bigger than you even really could even have imagined or maybe even in a direction that might not have been initially planned. Excellent, excellent. Yes, and I also wanna just, I think. 43:43 you know, we're back to the title of the episode, is, um, and which is building purpose, building reputation with purpose. And you were adamant about that. So what does purpose mean? And maybe you'll bring into, know, what, what is building reputation with purpose for you? know, I, um, 44:11 It's funny, I feel like it really goes back to this resilience question, but it's so much of it just comes down to acting with kind of like, like I work with companies that have like cultural values, right? And they're like, oh, or Patrick Lindsay only has a great one, like the heat, likes to say, you know, hire people that are hungry, humble and smart, right? So like, you have your like keywords, your brand words, your value words. And I think for me, 44:40 um over the years, my purpose has been to act with integrity and grace and curiosity. And, um and that's something that I don't think about logically, right in life. But I try to bring that kind of inspiration to the teams that I'm working with. And it's a lot of the reason why I wrote the book was to say like, 45:10 Look, there is a way. You don't have to follow every single thing that's in this book. But if you get stuck, isn't it helpful to have a guide, like a troubleshooting guide to say like, oh, let me just go to the index here. I'm a little stuck on territories. I'm going to get over it. And that's the spirit that I try to bring to everything that I do, which is, yeah, we can solve any problem. Like any problem is solvable. And guess what? Execution problems are the easiest thing to solve. So like, 45:40 Let's have some fun and we can, we can, there's a way to do it basically. Right. Excellent. Thank you. And last question, did you have fun in the sandbox today? I had so much fun. This was great. You know, honestly, I didn't really know how this, like I do enough of these podcasts now and it's so usually anchored on the framework and like, you know, the execution and like, you know, very tactical. 46:07 And so this was just a really, this was like a breath of fresh air because we got to talk a little bit about the human side of it, which I find really motivating. It is. And I do recall you were really set on building you and you it's your reputation. Do you have Vanessa Goldsby that has gotten to you, gotten you where you are today and by giving back and providing that, you know, writing that book and then, you know, serendipity, you decide, Oh my gosh, I'm going to go out on my own. So it's, your reputation. 46:35 that has been built with purpose. I want to thank you for joining me here in the Founders Sandbox. To my listeners, if you like this episode with Vanessa Goldsby, sign up for the month release of the Founders Sandbox where I have guests that are Founders, business owners, service providers like Vanessa, um and board directors who build with strong governance, resilient, scalable, and purpose-driven companies. 47:03 So signing off for this month. Thank you very much. Thank you, Brenda.

Most BDR teams are struggling right now. Connect rates are dropping, email is getting ignored, and reps are rushing to get out of the role as fast as possible. Lauren Reeves is doing the opposite, and her team is booking more meetings every single quarter.In this episode, John sits down with Lauren Reeves, BDR manager at Swap Commerce and one of the most vocal advocates for the SDR and BDR profession in Europe. Lauren built her team from 6 to 40, incentivized her reps to build real personal brands on LinkedIn, and created a culture where people actually want to stay in the seat long enough to get good at it. She shares exactly what is working right now on email, on the phone, and on social, and what is quietly killing results for most teams that are copying the playbook from five years ago.If you lead a BDR or SDR team, or you are in the role of trying to figure out how to stand out and build a career in sales, this conversation will give you the most practical and honest take on what it actually takes to win right now. Visit www.jbarrows.com and learn how you can Make It Happen.What You'll LearnThe hiring question Lauren asks in every interviewWhy Lauren tells every candidate upfront: I do not work with dicksWhy good BDRs should stay in the seat for at least 18 monthsWhy the no promotion before a year policy creates better salespeopleWhat is actually working right now in emailWhy the phone still convertsHow Lauren pays her reps to post on LinkedInWhat BDRs should post on LinkedInWhy costly quarterly targets work better than monthly pressureHow to spot it in an interview and how to coach it on the floorLauren Reeves is a sales leader and outbound specialist with 7 years of experience in the BDR/SDR space, known for developing high-performing business development teams. She began her career as a BDR before moving into management, where she focuses on building ambitious, growth-driven sales professionals and creating environments centered on learning, collaboration, and success. Lauren has driven significant outbound revenue growth, scaled teams across regions, and earned recognition as a top sales manager and leader in the industry.LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thelaurenreeves/John Barrows is a sales trainer, speaker, and founder of JB Sales with over 25 years of experience in the industry. He has made hundreds of cold calls a week, led startups to acquisition, and trained high-performing teams at companies like Salesforce, LinkedIn, Amazon, and Okta. Through JB Sales, John focuses on practical sales execution—helping reps fill pipeline, close deals, and build trust with buyers in today's AI-driven sales environment.Connect with John Barrows:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnbarrows/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnmbarrows/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@johnmbarrowsCheck out John's Membership: https://go.jbarrows.com/Join John's Newsletter: https://www.jbarrows.com/newsletter

In this episode, I sit down with Roy, founder of Biz Dev Labs and Forbes 30 Under 30 honoree, to talk about his unexpected journey from business school to building one of the most respected outbound sales agencies in the space. Roy shares how he stumbled into the BDR world, why he believes the role is a lifetime career — not just a stepping stone — and how being an introvert never held him back from competing at an Olympic level in windsurfing or cold calling Fortune 500 decision-makers. Introverts can thrive in sales. Active listening, pattern recognition, and deep product knowledge are superpowers that introverts naturally bring to the table. The BDR role is a foundation for everything. Whether you're an entrepreneur, climbing the corporate ladder, or looking for a promotion — it all starts with sales. Outbound is hard. That's the point. The heavy lifting — cold calling, picking up the phone, doing the work others won't — is exactly where the competitive edge lives. LinkedIn is your most underrated tool. Document your journey. Post authentically. The people who share consistently are the ones who build trust and attract opportunity. On high-ticket closing courses: Consume the free content first. Buy the product if you genuinely believe in it. Don't spend $5,000 before vetting the coach. Hiring is intuition-based. Roy looks for energy, proactiveness, and people who don't wait for instructions — not the perfect answer to every interview question. AI won't replace great BDRs — it'll raise the bar. When everyone goes left, go right. The fundamentals (cold calls, real conversations) are making a comeback. If this episode resonated with you, here's how you can support the show: ⭐ Leave a review — It only takes 2 minutes and helps more people find the podcast!

One of our Fractional SDR Management customers — an MSP owner — came to Ray with a show rate hovering just above 40%. The appointments were coming in, but half of them weren't showing up. Ray walked him through the exact diagnosis: go back and listen to the calls, figure out if the bookings are soft commitments or locked-in appointments, and then implement a 5-step pre-call process that covers everything from value-driven confirmation emails to same-day no-show recovery. The part most people miss? Garbage appointments don't just waste time — they push your real prospects further out on the calendar, and more time between booking and meeting always means a lower show rate.If you're running SDRs or BDRs and your show rate is below 60%, this episode walks through exactly where to look and what to fix.What You'll Learn in This Episode:Why a low show rate is almost always a booking quality problem before it's a follow-up problemHow "garbage" appointments silently destroy close rates on your good prospectsThe 5-step pre-call process Ray walks every Fractional SDR Management client throughWhy a value-driven confirmation email outperforms a standard calendar inviteThe no-show recovery window — and why speed matters more than the script//Welcome to The Ray J. Green Show, your destination for tips on sales, strategy, and self-mastery from an operator, not a guru.About Ray:→ Former Managing Director of National Small & Midsize Business at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, where he doubled revenue per sale in fundraising, led the first increase in SMB membership, co-built a national Mid-Market sales channel, and more.→ Former CEO operator for several investor groups where he led turnarounds of recently acquired small businesses.→ Current founder of MSP Sales Partners, where we currently help IT companies scale sales: www.MSPSalesPartners.com→ Current Sales & Sales Management Expert in Residence at the world's largest IT business mastermind.→ Current Managing Partner of Repeatable Revenue Ventures, where we scale B2B companies we have equity in: www.RayJGreen.com//Follow Ray on:YouTube | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram

Heading to Vegas this May? Join Josh at Pulse 2026 and come say hi—your oversized fluorescent daiquiri is on him. No catch.Grab your ticket at gainsightpulse.com and use code UNCHURNED for a special rate.Watch Eric Gilpin, President of Go-To-Market at G2, reveal how he's building the first-ever unified revenue org in a 210,000-product marketplace. In this episode, he takes us behind the scenes of G2's “zero daylight” alignment strategy and how it led to a game-changing 31% YoY traffic spike. Discover why G2 made the controversial bet to let LLMs scrape their data (and why competitors are now paying the price), how to flip buyer intent into “churn intent” to catch customers before they leave, and how the difference between “freelancers” and “contractors” became worth $600M+ in revenue. This is marketplace strategy 101, told by someone who's spent 25+ years perfecting it. Essential listening for GTM leaders, CS teams, and anyone building in B2B SaaS.---Timestamps0:00 - Preview & introduction1:28 - Meet Eric Gilpin & overview of G26:50 - How Upwork scaled from $30M to $650M in gross sales volume10:00 - Building G2's first President of Go-To-Market role11:13 - Zero daylight: Aligning marketing, BDRs, and all revenue teams16:42 - Pivoting narrative from “SEO review site” to AEO visibility engine18:15 - G2's “Hunter Hunter” post-sales org (60% growth from expansion)21:00 - The highest-value CS activities (hint: it's not quarterly review sends)23:23 - Self-serve + AI automation for the 150,000 SMB products25:23 - The churn intent27:28 - Why G2 allowed LLMs to train on their data31:55 - Nostalgia and denial kill businesses---What You'll Learn- How to eliminate silos by achieving “zero daylight” between marketing, sales, and revenue teams- The whitespace model G2 uses to find expansion revenue- How to build a “churn intent” system using buyer signals to catch churn before it happens- Why allowing LLMs to scrape your data early creates a competitive moat- The subtle power of reframing to unlock enterprise adoption and market perception- Why is constantly challenging your own status quo the only defense against disruption---Want the playbook, not just the conversation? Subscribe for deep-dive, actionable breakdowns from every episode at unchurned.substack.com.---Where to Find Eric GilpinLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericgilpin/---Where to Find Josh:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jschachter/Unchurned Substack: https://unchurned.substack.com/

One fumbled call with a hot prospect. One honest conversation in a weekly check-in. One sales enablement leader who refused to let it happen again.Cassie Watkins didn't just create a battle card after her BDR struggled to differentiate against a competitor — she listened to the call, put herself in his shoes, and built something most enablement teams have never thought to create: a choose-your-own-adventure playbook that mirrors the actual flow of a real sales conversation. In this episode of Content to Close, Cassie walks through the whole story.What you'll learn in this episode:- Why the best sales enablement content starts with listening to a real call — and what frame of mind you need to bring to that recording to extract what actually matters- How to build trust with your BDR and sales team so they bring you the hard moments instead of hiding them — the kind of trust that turns problems into content before they become patterns- Why traditional objection-handling content fails: it answers questions in a vacuum instead of following the natural flow of a live conversation- The "choose your own adventure" framework for building competitor differentiation content that mirrors how a real conversation actually unfocks — not how you wish it would go- What a one-stop-shop sales playbook looks like in practice: daily metrics, call scripts, objection handling, AE territories, and flashcard-style competitor content, all in one living PowerPoint- The calendar invite trick that gets BDRs to actually *use* enablement content — a simple accountability system that works even on a one-person enablement team Guest BioCassie Watkins is a Sales Enablement Leader with five years of experience, preceded by a decade in sales itself — starting with door-to-door business sales in 2010, the kind of front-line experience that gives her an unusual empathy for the people she now enables.Based in Nashville, Cassie recently founded a local enablement chapter to help other practitioners — especially solo enablement teams — connect, share, and grow. She is a practitioner first: her ideas come from the field, from real calls, real coaching moments, and the daily discipline of making sellers better.Connect with Cassie on LinkedIn.Text us what you think about this episode!

In this episode, Chris Strom sits down with James Jackson, VP of Revenue Operations at Canva, to discuss how companies should approach sales compensation planning.James shares lessons from his experience leading RevOps and go-to-market strategy at companies like Microsoft, Cisco Meraki, DocuSign, Snowflake, and now Canva. The conversation covers how compensation plans should reflect company strategy, how different sales roles' comp plans should be structured, and how RevOps leaders can manage comp planning across sales, finance, and leadership.They also discuss common comp plan mistakes, when to make mid-year adjustments, and how to align incentives across account executives, BDRs, and customer success teams.If you work in RevOps, sales operations, or go-to-market leadership, this episode provides a practical look at how compensation planning works inside high-growth companies.Topics covered:How sales compensation should reflect company strategyStructuring comp plans for AEs, BDRs, and CSMsQuota design and attainment expectationsAligning sales, finance, and RevOps on comp planningWhat to do if you need to adjust comp plans mid-yearUsing SPIFFs vs. redesigning comp plansLessons from companies going through different growth velocitiesSubscribe for more conversations on revenue operations, go-to-market strategy, and scaling sales teams.

Building a strong referral network can be one of the most powerful ways to grow a service business—but it also comes with challenges many owners aren't prepared for. In this episode, Eric and Larry dive into the realities of managing Business Development Representatives (BDRs) and why so many companies struggle to turn activity into real revenue.The discussion explores common pitfalls business owners face, including avoiding accountability, confusing busyness with productivity, and trying to manage a role they've never performed themselves. The hosts break down how personality styles—especially highly social, relationship-driven reps—can create management challenges if expectations and systems aren't clearly defined.You'll also hear practical strategies for setting revenue goals, building structured activity plans, and tracking the metrics that actually matter—from door knocks and meetings to bids, jobs, and revenue generated. The episode highlights why consistent measurement and clear expectations are essential to turning relationship-building into profitable growth.Finally, Eric and Larry share real-world examples of persistence in business development, including how years of consistent relationship-building with the right referral partner can eventually turn into millions in revenue.If you manage sales or referral marketing in a service business, this episode offers actionable insights on creating accountability, managing BDRs effectively, and building a referral engine that truly drives growth.TITLE SPONSOR:Super Tech UniversityDramatically improve your team's performance with a system of short daily video lessons training your team in soft skills. When you invest in your team and teach them soft skills, your team can make you more profit. Go to https://supertechu.com/ for more info.Click here for a discount: https://supertechu.com/register/podcastoffer/.Here is an entrepreneur's story you will relate to.SPONSOR: C&R MagazineC&R magazine is the leading periodical in the Cleaning and Restoration industry. Owner and editor Michelle Blevins has brought printed copies back from the dead to increase reader experience. Go to www.candrmagazine.com to get your free copy sent directly to your home or business.

Tem dúvidas sobre quais ações investir em FEREVEIRO? Filipe Villegas, estrategista de ações da Genial Investimentos, fala sobre as melhores oportunidades e as carteiras recomendadas do mês.Veja a carteira completa: https://analisa.genialinvestimentos.com.br/carteiras-recomendadas/renda-variavel/carteira-recomendada-de-acoes-marco-de-2026/Filipe Villegas, estrategista de ações da Genial Investimentos, apresenta as recomendações das Carteiras Recomendadas para março de 2026. O vídeo detalha o cenário macroeconômico, destacando a volatilidade dos ativos de risco, a trajetória de queda da inflação e a expectativa de corte na taxa de juros pelo Copom. São analisadas as movimentações nas carteiras Ibovespa 10+, 5+, Small Caps, Microcaps e Dividendos, além da estratégia para BDRs frente ao avanço da inteligência artificial e tensões geopolíticas no Oriente Médio. Uma análise completa para quem busca rentabilidade e segurança.DIRETO AO PONTO:00:00:00 - Introdução e como acessar as carteiras no Genial Analisa 00:02:12 - Cenário macro: Valuation do Ibovespa, juros e inflação para 2026 00:04:15 - Estratégia de alocação: Empresas domésticas vs. exportadoras 00:05:22 - Mudanças nas carteiras: Ibovespa 10+, 5+, Small e Microcaps 00:06:17 - Performance das carteiras e impacto do conflito no Oriente Médio 00:08:42 - Carteira de BDRs: Foco em infraestrutura de IA e Semicondutores 00:10:55 - Carteiras de ETFs, Renda Fixa e Criptoativos 00:13:06 - Tutorial: Como contratar e seguir as carteiras pelo App Genial

► Hier gehts zur nächsten Episode (Meine Geschichte): https://linkly.link/2WkUE  ► Sales Coaching & Training anfragen: https://2ly.link/24kPi ► Konrad auf LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/konrad-hippius-83545751/  Wir beleuchten, warum große Pipelines und ein unsystematisches Vorgehen im Sales kontraproduktiv sein können und wie man durch gezielte Fokussierung auf wenige, aber dafür strategische Kunden nachhaltig Erfolg haben kann. Darüber hinaus geht es um den Einsatz von MEDDICC und Spiced als Qualifizierungsmethoden und den Umgang mit vielen Stakeholdern im Sales. Konrad Hippius gibt außerdem Einblicke, wie wichtig kontinuierliche Weiterbildung und Anpassung sind, um im Vertrieb langfristig erfolgreich zu bleiben. So kann ich dir im Sales helfen: zur Software Sales Formula: https://www.softwaresalesformula.com zum Sales Gym: https://www.sales-gym.io Coaching & Training anfragen: https://2ly.link/24kPi Kickscale: Extended Free Version: https://2ly.link/1zdl4 Timestamps: (00:00) 6 stelliger Bonus im Sales (00:31) Ownership in Sales (00:53) Fehler im SaaS Sales (03:07) Account Selektion (10:53) Die Rolle des SDRs und BDRs (19:30) Enterprise Sales Techniken (29:54) Der Sales Prozess der funktioniert (30:15) Lernen und Wachstum in der Sales Karriere (30:27) Einführung von MEDDICC (30:52) Wann ist der richtige Zeitpunkt für einen Jobwechsel? (32:03) Herausforderungen und Learnings im Enterprise Sales (33:40) Die Bedeutung der Qualifizierung im Sales (38:50) Nutzung von AI-Tools zur Verbesserung der Qualifizierung (42:46) Stakeholder Management im Enterprise Sales (53:33) Abschlussgedanken und persönliche Reflexion Infos: jiri@softwaresalesformula.com https://www.softwaresalesformula.com  https://www.sales.gym.io 

Ivan Cossu is Co-Founder and CEO of deskbird, a flexible workplace management platform that's scaled past $10 million ARR. Founded in April 2020 during COVID's most uncertain period, deskbird survived a near-death pivot just months in and scaled across 10 international markets within six months—an unconventional path that challenged conventional wisdom about market domination strategies. Ivan shares the tactical decisions behind their international expansion, the shift from founder-led to scalable sales, and why they're deliberately targeting an underfunded VC category. Topics Discussed: The critical pivot from an Airbnb for co-working spaces to workplace management software in July 2020, months before running out of capital The counterintuitive decision to scale internationally within six months rather than dominating a single market first Balancing consumer-grade UX with enterprise-level customization in a category where competitors felt like "database queries" The mechanics of transitioning from pure inbound to incorporating outbound without breaking what's working US market expansion from Europe with higher close rates than home markets—and what that signaled about timing Why traditional email outbound is dead in the AI era and what actually works for breaking through GTM Lessons For B2B Founders: Scale your proven funnel globally before you perfect it locally: When deskbird saw strong early traction, they launched landing pages across UK and US markets within months to test demand signals. Ivan's contrarian take: "If you have a good funnel that's working, be bold enough to scale it globally" rather than spending years dominating Germany first. The key qualifier—you need solid core product and conversion metrics, not just initial traction. They were "way too scared of going international because it always worked out way better than we thought," often seeing better metrics in new markets than home markets. Most founders over-index on local penetration when they should be testing international demand. Choose validation channels by cycle time, not potential scale: In the first 6-12 months, avoid any channel with an 18-month feedback loop, even if it's your eventual ICP. Ivan targeted paid search and lower mid-market specifically because "you get a good sample size quite fast." Fast feedback loops let you iterate positioning, messaging, and ICP assumptions weekly rather than annually. Once you have conviction from high-velocity channels, then layer in longer-cycle enterprise motions. This sequencing prevents burning 12+ months on the wrong strategy. Founder-led sales is a permanent muscle, not a phase to exit: At $10M+ ARR, Ivan still joins sales calls regularly, citing a top entrepreneur-investor's rule: "Sales always needs to remain a final topic." The evolution isn't binary—it's additive. First hires (around 9 months post-MVP) were generalist "hard workers" who could sell vision over process. Today's hires are more disciplined as repeatable plays emerged. But the founder never exits—they shift from doing all deals to strategic deals, competitive situations, and maintaining direct customer insight. Even Benioff at Salesforce's scale still jumps into deals. Outbound in the AI era requires anti-scale tactics: Ivan's blunt assessment: "I don't believe in emails and any kind of written communication, especially not in the age of AI—it's just inflated." What works: (1) Targeted account selection—not 1:1 but not 1:1000 either, find the sweet spot of focused ABM, (2) Physical mail and offline media, (3) Cold calling with proper infrastructure. The challenge isn't the tactic—it's "having all the BDRs and AEs knowing which accounts they have to call, seamlessly calling account after account." Most companies can't operationalize the calling machine. Best results come when marketing warms leads with intent data, then hands them to outbound teams—not pure cold outreach. Underfunded categories force better unit economics: Deskbird's space isn't flooded with VC dollars—Ivan mapped 50-60 European competitors but limited mega-rounds. His take: "There's a downside, it's harder to get VC money, but once you get it you don't have the problem that some spaces are overfunded and it's crazily driving up customer acquisition cost." Markets with excessive capital often have one winner and "very sad consolidation" for positions 2-4. Constrained capital forced deskbird to build profitably and focus on product differentiation (Airbnb-like UX meets enterprise customization) rather than outspending competitors. Close rates in new markets signal expansion timing better than absolute numbers: Deskbird closed US deals from Europe with European AEs in mismatched time zones—and saw the highest close rates of any market. Ivan's logic: "If we can close them from Europe with our European AEs working in different time zones who cannot deliver the same SLAs, and we then go to the US, it should get even better." Don't wait for perfect execution—if you're winning despite structural disadvantages, that's your signal to invest. They hired their first US-based team only after proving they could win remotely. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

Got a sales problem you can't solve? Struggling with pipeline consistency, no-shows, or closing relationship-led deals? In this live sales therapy session, we answer real questions from the audience and break down what's actually holding your sales back. This isn't theory. This is live troubleshooting for SDRs, BDRs, founders, and anyone trying to fix their sales process in real time. We tackle everything from building consistent pipeline to handling objections, beating call screening, and getting senior decision-makers to actually take your call. In This Episode, We Cover: How to generate consistent sales pipeline (not just one-off wins) Why your meetings have high no-show rates and how to fix it The real reason your tone on cold calls isn't working How to build accurate call lists without wasting time on bad data The LinkedIn outreach strategy that's getting 99% reply rates How to close relationship-led deals without being pushy Getting C-suite and Fortune 500 executives to respond The ACES framework for handling objections in real time We also break down the "Poke the Bear" LinkedIn strategy, why case studies should be stories (not boring PDFs), and how to use direct mail to actually stand out in 2026. If you've ever felt stuck in your sales process, this episode will give you the clarity and tactics you need to move forward. Sponsored by Prospeo, the easiest way to find verified emails and contact data for outbound and lead generation. Try it free at prospeo.io/wham Chapters: 00:00 Sales Therapy Session: Fix Your Sales Problems Live 02:15 How to Generate Consistent Sales Pipeline 07:42 Case Studies and Testimonials: Do It All Upfront 11:20 No Shows on Meetings: The Emotion Problem 16:33 Building Call Lists That Actually Convert 22:47 The New LinkedIn Offering: The Poke the Bear System 28:19 Closing Relationship-Led Deals Without Pressure 32:56 Guarantees and Managing Client Expectations 37:14 Reaching C-Suite and Fortune 500 Decision Makers 42:08 The ACES Framework: Accept, Clarify, Explore, Redirect #SalesTherapy #SalesTips #ColdCalling #LinkedInOutreach #B2BSales #WeHaveAMeeting

Tem dúvidas sobre quais ações investir em FEREVEIRO? Filipe Villegas, estrategista de ações da Genial Investimentos, fala sobre as melhores oportunidades e as carteiras recomendadas do mês! Não perca!Veja a carteira completa: https://analisa.genialinvestimentos.com.br/carteiras-recomendadas/renda-variavel/carteira-recomendada-de-acoes-fevereiro-de-2026/Neste vídeo, Filipe Villegas, estrategista de ações da Genial Investimentos, revela as atualizações das carteiras recomendadas para fevereiro de 2026. Entenda por que, mesmo com o Ibovespa em patamares históricos, ainda existe uma forte assimetria de valor, especialmente no segmento de Small Caps.Destaques do cenário macroeconômico:Cenário Global: A tese de enfraquecimento do dólar e a expectativa de queda de juros nos Estados Unidos continuam impulsionando ativos emergentes.Brasil: O mercado aguarda o início do corte de juros pelo COPOM em março, o que pode migrar capital da renda fixa para a renda variável.Eleições 2026: Como a disputa política e a possibilidade de alternância de poder podem trazer volatilidade e novas narrativas ao mercado.Estratégia do Mês:Villegas detalha as trocas nas carteiras de Dividendos, ESG, Micro Caps e BDRs, com um olhar atento à temporada de balanços para capturar resultados acima do esperado. Além disso, veja por que a corretora adotou uma postura mais cautelosa com o Ouro e diversificou a exposição em CriptoativosDIRETO AO PONTO0:00 - Introdução: Como dobrar seu patrimônio com planejamento0:45 - Como acessar as Carteiras Recomendadas no Genial Analisa1:45 - Retrospectiva de Janeiro: Desempenho de emergentes, ouro e commodities2:38 - A tese do dólar fraco e a queda dos juros nos EUA3:47 - Impacto da nomeação de Kevin Warsh no Fed e volatilidade4:58 - Cenário Macro 2026: O que monitorar na inflação e emprego nos EUA5:40 - Expectativas para o COPOM: Início do ciclo de corte de juros no Brasil6:50 - Fator Político: Eleições 2026 e a alternância de poder8:15 - Análise de Valuation: O Ibovespa está caro na máxima histórica?9:26 - Small Caps: Onde mora a maior assimetria de valor para 202610:29 - Alerta de curto prazo: Possibilidade de realização de lucros em fevereiro11:19 - Desempenho das carteiras da Genial em Janeiro12:06 - Carteira Mensal: Mudanças (Alpargatas, Banrisul, JHSF)12:26 - Carteira Ibovespa 5+: Entrada de BTG Pactual12:42 - Carteiras Small Caps e Micro Caps: Novas alocações13:06 - Carteiras Dividendos e ESG: Trocas estratégicas13:37 - BDRs e ETFs: Foco em Infraestrutura de IA e Urânio15:28 - Renda Fixa e Criptoativos: Estratégia conservadora e diversificada17:07 - Conclusão: Por que pausamos a alocação em Ouro?18:37 - Tutorial: Como contratar o serviço de execução da Mesa de Operações

Jacqueline Cheong is the Co-founder and CEO of Artie.Artie moves data across your systems in real-time, and we talk about why that's so important in the age of AI.It's a lot harder than you'd think, as less than 5% of real-time data streaming projects are successful.I talked to a dozen people to prepare for this conversation, including Jared Friedman who worked with Jacqueline during YC, her sales coach Ras, and numerous Artie employees like A-nee-rud, Ryan, Sarah, Shangbing and Jacqueline's co-founder Robin.We talk through how Robin built real-time data streaming at OpenDoor and Zendesk before they started Artie, and Jacqueline shares the sales playbook she learned going from hedge fund analyst to software CEO, including asking customers for their hardest problem and then solving it with the product.Artie just announced a $12 million Series A a few weeks before we published this episode. We talk about how they landed all of their early enterprise customers through cold outbound, how they structure and automate their prospecting with AI so they have no BDRs, and why they're seeing customers switch to Artie even after building their own multi-million dollar real-time streaming projects in-house.I also asked Jacqueline what it's like working with Standard Capital. They're a new fund started by a group of YC partners, and it was fascinating to hear about the things they've borrowed from YC when investing at the Series A stage.Try Numeral, the end-to-end platform for sales tax and compliance: ⁠https://www.numeral.com⁠Sign-up for Flex Elite with code TURNER, get $1,000: https://form.typeform.com/to/Rx9rTjFzTimestamps:(4:08) Artie: Real-time data streaming(5:13) Why moving data is so hard(9:14) Evolution of data warehouses(12:47) AI needs real-time data(18:44) Build vs buy in data streaming(22:51) How to build in a crowded market(26:26) Early focus on a specific hard problem(30:33) Acquiring enterprise customers from cold emails(32:51) Onboarding their first customer with no UI(35:46) Solving compliance and implementation(38:50) How to automate internal engineering, marketing, and ops(44:01) Building an AI-powered GTM pipeline and motion(53:00) Starting Artie to solve their own problem(59:25) Discovering YC through a friend(1:02:20) Everything Jacqueline learned about sales(1:06:29) How to improve your sales discovery calls(1:10:08) Inside Artie's $12m Series A(1:16:44) What its like working with Standard Capital(1:22:59) Jacqueline's favorite bookReferencedTry Artie: https://artie.comCareers at Artie: https://www.artie.com/careersClay: https://www.clay.comPodcast with Tommy @ Alloy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7i8Wxklu-YYCombinator: https://www.ycombinator.comStandard Capital: https://www.standardcap.comFounding Sales: https://www.foundingsales.comThe Score Takes Care of Itself: https://www.amazon.com/Score-Takes-Care-Itself-Philosophy/dp/1591843472Follow JacquelineTwitter: https://x.com/JacquelineSYC19LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacqueline-cheongFollow TurnerTwitter: https://twitter.com/TurnerNovakLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/turnernovakSubscribe to my newsletter to get every episode + the transcript in your inbox every week: https://www.thespl.it/

Gabe Lullo is the CEO of Alleyoop, a sales development agency working with industry giants such as ZoomInfo, Salesloft, and Adobe.   He has trained over 8,000 salespeople across diverse businesses and, during his tenure in Alleyoop, he has personally hired and managed more than 1,500 BDRs.   With over two decades of experience in sales, marketing, and executive recruitment, his strategies have significantly driven Alleyoop's growth and shaped its corporate culture.   Beyond his career accomplishments, Gabe graduated from the Barney School of Business at the University of Hartford, and his leadership ethos is rooted in cultivating environments that prioritize both professional development and individual success.   Socials: linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lullo/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gabelullo/ Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL61t3M6geW84XNxsfKI5iARqa6_M9MuSy   Episode Summary:   In this episode, host Lyndsay Dowd talks with Gabe Lullo, the CEO of AlleyOOP, a sales-as-a-service company that specializes in helping businesses scale through effective outreach. Gabe shares his unique journey from recruiting to running a company that makes over 11 million cold calls a year.   The conversation dives deep into the realities of building high-performing revenue teams that last. Gabe and Lindsay discuss the difficult but necessary decision to fire toxic top performers to protect company culture. They also explore how to keep Sales Development Representatives (SDRs) motivated in a grueling role, the critical importance of a "video-on" culture for remote teams, and why LinkedIn is no longer optional for modern executives.   Key Takeaways:   - Culture Over Revenue - Mindset is 50% of Success - Video is Essential for Remote Trust - LinkedIn is a Must-Have   Episode Chapters:   00:00:00 – Intro to Gabe Lullo and AlleyOOP 00:02:17 – Gabe's background: From fundraising at 11 years old to recruiting 00:06:00 – The three pillars of success: People, Process, and Technology 00:07:40 – Why you should fire your toxic top performer 00:10:14 – Culture as a KPI and the "shadowing" interview process 00:13:19 – What is AlleyOOP? (The "unsung hero" of sales) 00:18:18 – The SDR Mindset and daily "Power Up" videos 00:21:26 – Why a "camera on" culture matters in remote work 00:24:05 – What inspires Gabe and his legacy 00:26:43 – Why leaders and employees must be on LinkedIn 00:31:26 – Where to find Gabe and his podcast, Do Hard Things

How Performance-First B2B Marketing Drives Better Results Traditional B2B marketing and advertising are undergoing a major transformation in the age of AI and rapid technological advancement. With shifting market dynamics and budget cuts across B2B organizations, marketing teams are under pressure to do more with less and prove their impact on business performance and revenue growth. How can B2B marketers quickly adapt, demonstrate ROI, and establish a strategic role within their organizations? That's why we're talking to Keith Turco (CEO, Madison Logic), who shares insights and proven strategies on how performance-first B2B marketing drives better results. During our conversation, Keith explored the evolving B2B marketing landscape and explained why performance-first strategies are crucial in times of market changes and budget cuts. He emphasized the importance of data-driven insights to measure ROI, optimize media plans, and tailor messages to specific target audiences. Keith also highlighted the need for a full-funnel approach that leverages AI-powered personalization at scale, and integrating new channels like audio and video. Additionally, he elaborated on why understanding both personal and professional interests of buyers to shorten sales cycles and build brand affinity are essential. Keith stressed the value of creativity in performance marketing to maintain loyalty and differentiate top marketers. Tune in as he also shared some key findings of research conducted by Madison Logic and The Harris Poll on the future of advertising and the impact of AI on B2B marketing. https://youtu.be/DAYcJf7AlIs Topics discussed in episode: [2:09] How macroeconomic shifts and budget cuts are creating a “performance-first” approach. [6:12] Embracing AI: Moving from a reactive to a proactive stance in advertising.  [9:50] The consumerization of B2B: Why your next lead might come from a podcast or TikTok.  [13:15] The full-funnel advantage: Moving beyond fragmented tactics to a more unified data strategy.  [17:34] Communicating with the C-Suite vs. managers: Tailoring content for different “states of mind”. [22:27] Research insights: Why 73% of leaders see AI as the future of creative production. [32:12] Why abandoning brand for “just the facts” performance marketing is a mistake. Companies and links mentioned: Keith Turco on LinkedIn Madison Logic Transcript Keith Turco, Christian Klepp Christian Klepp  00:01 In the age of rapid technological developments in AI, traditional B2B, marketing and advertising are witnessing monumental changes with shifting market dynamics and budget cuts across B2B organizations, marketing teams will have to do more with less. So how can they achieve this and still be instrumental to organizational success? Welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast, and I’m your host, Christian Klepp, today I’ll be talking to Keith Turco, who will be answering this question. He’s the CEO of Madison Logic, which leads global account based marketing initiatives to help revenue driven marketers accelerate buying journeys with targeted, measurable strategies. Tune in to find out more about what this B2B marketer’s mission is. Okay, and here we are. Mr. Keith Turco, welcome to the show. Keith Turco  00:50 Thank you, Christian. Good to see you. Christian Klepp  00:53 Likewise, likewise. We had a great pre-interview conversation, and I’m really looking forward to this conversation. We got to buckle up a little bit, because there’s a lot to cover. There’s a lot to cover, but I think it’s going to be really interesting, relevant and pertinent to all those B2B marketers out there. So let’s, let’s dive right in. Keith Turco  01:11 Great. Excited to be here. Christian Klepp  01:12 All right, so Keith, you’re on a mission to help B2B companies succeed by delivering performance-first strategies across the full marketing funnel and performance-first, I think, is going to be a word or a term that we’re going to hear throughout this conversation, but for this conversation, let’s focus on a topic and unpack it from there, so it’s how B2B marketing teams can rapidly adapt to market changes and contribute to organizational success. So let me set this up a little bit, because that sounds like. that sounds a little bit generic. But you know, after after the description, I think people will understand what I’m talking about. So your company, Madison Logic, helps clients own the buying journey by creating lasting impact at every interaction with high value buying groups through data driven ABM. So let’s start off with this question, how have shifting macroeconomic conditions and budget cuts forced B2B marketing teams to do more with less? Keith Turco  02:09 Well inherent in the conversation, or the question is you’ve got less budget. You’ve seen lots of cuts come through either from a staff cutting perspective, you’ve got less people to help you execute against things, as well as less budget to spend on marketing. So what does that mean, and what are the implications? And how does our technology and our approach to market help. Everything from a performance first perspective allows things to be measured, and because you can measure, you can quickly calculate ROI, you can quickly optimize your your media plans, and you can also take a look at what your creative is and isn’t working and what’s working through from a content based perspective. So when you take a performance-first approach to your marketing initiatives, you have all the data at your fingertips to give you the insights and intelligence you need in order to hit the right targets and the right buying groups with the right message at the right time, and give you what you need to actually, really measure the impact and optimize on a regular basis to to prove the ROI that you’re trying to prove for the organization and support sales. Christian Klepp  03:19 Yeah, no, absolutely. And you touched on a lot of things there, which I think are going to be a to be things that are going to come up throughout this conversation. So things like calculating ROI, being able to measure. I mean, who doesn’t want to do that in the world of B2B, right? But how do you see a performance based approach? And I suppose that’s the next question. How does a performance based approach help companies to adapt to, well, a lot of these market changes, and I know that’s a bit of an understatement, because market changes, it’s so broad and multifaceted, but how does it help to address these changes? Keith Turco  03:51 First and foremost, I think access to data allows you to test and learn, what’s working, what’s not, against what buying groups. I kind of mentioned it a couple of minutes ago. But if you’re looking at what’s working against which target segment, what messages make the most sense, what content are they looking for? And then on top of that, you have a buying group. Each of those groups contain multiple levels of executives and employees. So are they all consuming the same message. Can you sub segment that buying group into different categories that consume different content, that allow them to actually understand the full picture that you’re trying to communicate? And then obviously prove out ROI? I think the other thing prove out ROI is a big statement. What does that mean? What are the KPIs? They’re different for each customer that’s out there, right? So what does ROI mean to one organization versus the other? And by allowing yourself to test and learn and gain the insights that you you’re looking for, you can prove out ROI in different ways. Ultimately, the ultimate ROI is reflected in sales, right? But. Some clients will work with us on visits to website. Other clients will work with us on appointment setting. Other clients will look at, you know, number of interactions. And then lastly, of course, looking at ROI from a sale based perspective and what they’re selling, Christian Klepp  05:18 Absolutely, absolutely. And we’re certainly going to talk about the buying committee a little bit later on in this conversation. The time of this recording is at the end of 2025 and you know, I have to ask you the question about AI, and I know you your company has done some research about that, and we will look into that a little bit further on. But because you’re talking about accessing data and analyzing and aggregating data, and how does, how has technological advancements, also in the form of artificial intelligence, perhaps help that process, but also threatened B2B marketing in a way? Keith Turco  05:56 I don’t think I ever view it as threatening. I’ll always look at AI as a form of enhancement and allowance to optimize and go to market. I think probably a future question you’re going to ask, I might actually jump to it as well from an AI perspective. Keith Turco  06:12 But the impact of AI on advertising and marketing, and how is it playing a role in performance marketing? AI allows itself and lends itself to really impact performance marketing, having been and being been at, and being a fan of and student of advertising. To me, I think that AI allows us to lean in a bit more. I think we should continue to ask ourselves those questions. But the core approach from the creative side of things will still be there. What AI will allow us to do in the performance marketing world is lean into what I was referring to earlier, which is test and learn. What messages based on which audience. How do I sub segment, buying groups? How do I sub segment, even some of those additional segments, and in an effort to not spend so much time adapting creative to those sub segments or geographies or different business units inside an organization, right so each of those things allows, or would benefit from having a much more tailored approach to communications and AI should be leveraged from that perspective to lean into those kinds of things, helping you with testing and learning, helping you with sub segmenting, helping you with geographical segmentation, business unit segmentation, those kinds of things, you know, there’s multiple BU’s that are buying groups inside of a large technology organization, right? So to message them all the same would kind of be silly. Christian Klepp  06:12 Please, please. Christian Klepp  07:48 Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, perhaps the better. But the better term, as opposed to saying threatening, is, how is it impacted B2B marketing might be a might be a better way of looking at it. Keith Turco  07:57 Yeah, I think, I think exactly that point, right? It’s impacting everything. But what I challenge everybody, when they say, oh, AI is going to threaten or kill or do, is like, Well, how do you embrace it, and how do you give it a hug, and how do you leverage it to evolve your approach from a marketing perspective, versus to get nervous about it and be more proactive instead of reactive in your approach to AI? Christian Klepp  08:23 Absolutely, absolutely so based on what you’ve said, like, what would you say are some of the key pitfalls that B2B marketing teams should avoid, and what should they be doing instead? Keith Turco  08:32 Really understanding what their ROI is, who the buying groups are? I know we keep coming back to that, right? But I think B2B marketers are also really focused on what their BDRs are up to and what kind of lead generation they can they can provide to their sales organizations. And I’d say go a bit further than that, right? It’s not just lead generation from a content syndication perspective, it’s a full funnel multimedia approach. We talk about this also, I think, in upcoming questions Christian because we prepped for the meeting, but the buying group is 7 to 10 people, and are you hitting the right people at the right time with the right message? So I think it’s important to take a look back at certain aspects of how you’re approaching your your marketing initiatives as you really unpack the strategy and look at things I don’t know if I answered the question though. Christian Klepp  09:38 Yeah. I mean, it’s basically about like, you know, these are the things that B2B marketers should be paying attention to. These are some of the things that they should be avoiding, right? And keeping the conversation constructive, as it were. Keith Turco  09:50 Yeah, and I think it’s important to set the KPIs for campaigns, optimize your media plans, and then multimedia, when I talk about that, specifically, multi-format. We’ve talked about what channels in the B2B space that might not have been tapped in the past, should be tapped, right? Some of the research we’ve done with with Harris poll also talked about the consumerization of the B2B space. So what mediums working in the B2C space that we can move over to the B2B space, which is why you’ll see that we launched audio earlier this year in our platform. But video is obviously a big play as well. So the B2B space is leaning into the TikToks and YouTubes of the world as well as audio. So video and audio are also mediums. I think it’s important for the B2B landscape to take a look at. I guess we’ve dubbed it B2B2C. Right at the end of the day, we’re all people that are consuming media, making business decision. Christian Klepp  10:54 Absolutely, absolutely. And I’m sure you’ve come across this camp, because I certainly have that basically, really want to draw that line in the sand and say, No, you know, that’s not transferable. You can’t use those same tactics in B2C, I tend to disagree, because it, like you said, like, it really, it really depends. It really depends also on the vertical you’re talking about. And going back again to who are we targeting with this, right? And that might be also you brought it up, one of the pitfalls is, like, you know, the lack of understanding of who you’re targeting. Because in B2B, it tends to be people in that buying group, right? Keith Turco  11:30 I think it’s important to recognize, you talked about tactics. Which tactics are people consuming and in a previous life, in a previous world, we called it the at work state of mind. And I think in the post covid era, you don’t work nine to five anymore, right? So when we talk about tactics and understanding your target and bringing those two things together, I might be on the treadmill in the morning listening to a podcast, still thinking about work, right? It’s not because I’m not at a desk or in the office anymore. Where should I hit them and why? And I think it’s important as we look at firmographics, we should also look at personal demographics of the buyers and the business decision makers. And, you know, marrying both demographics and firmographics will help figure out what the optimal media mix is. So on the drive to work, on the treadmill or the elliptical right, watching a video, listening to a podcast, you know, multi screen. So obviously, I’m sitting here with you with my phone in one hand, a big screen to the right on the other, and looking at my laptop. So, you know, people that multitask and/or consume different ways on different screens at different day parts. So it’s a combination of consumer and B2B, and the melding of the two come together, understanding that it’s not just a tactic B2B tactic play, but it’s a it’s a personal demographic in that decision maker and where they are. Christian Klepp  13:01 Yeah, yeah. No, that’s absolutely right. In our previous conversation, Keith, you talked about how the full funnel approach is critical in the B2B space. So please share with us what you would like more people to understand about this approach. Keith Turco  13:15 Yeah, I think I’ll talk about it from a Madison Logic perspective in particular. So from an activity based perspective, full funnel activity allows us to measure holistically and easier. You can absolutely measure it in a… there could be full funnel, but fragmented full funnel versus one system full funnel, which is Madison Logic’s full funnel, we partner with agencies and clients alike, to do some tactics in our funnel and some tactics outside of our funnel. Either way, full funnel is critical, because you need to hit 7 to 10 times to 7 to 10 buyers. So that’s a minimum of 50 communications that go out there, whether it’s inside a single platform, like Madison Logic or in combination with other platforms outside. So we can do both, and we work with both. The reason why we like full funnel in in our platform is that, again, it comes down to insights, intelligence and data. We’re not saying that your entire media spend should be spent in our funnel, but showing a full funnel activity of audio, display, CTV, content syndication allows us to gather the insights that you’re looking for, the data that you’re looking for, that then allows you to optimize your media mix, either inside of our funnel or next to our funnel in conjunction with it. Some of our clients will, you know, leverage our content syndication only. Others will do content syndication and display, but still by audio and video outside of it, and then others will do all for what we’re being leveraged for specifically is inside of a smaller subset, which is a test and learn, we can show which media mix works optimally against which segments and which targets by client, and then our agency partners, or our clients in particular, will take that media mix and then apply it to their entire media spend. So that’s what when we talk about full funnel, it’s also guaranteeing overlap at the account level and the individual level inside of our funnel. So it’s important that data is collected and then leveraged in a larger way. Christian Klepp  15:31 I hope I’m not trying to oversimplify what you just explained. But the way that I understand also like full funnel approach, the reason why you recommend that approach is also because of the way that people consume content differently and meeting them where they’re at, and also because we know that the buying committee, and we’ve all seen the diagrams, right? Like the diagrams of how the B2B sales envision, the target audience to assume to consume the content and the way they really do. And it’s really a haphazard diagram, isn’t it? Keith Turco  16:00 It’s no longer linear, right? Christian Klepp  16:04 No. Keith Turco  16:04 I think we approached it that way, but we’re finally admitting that it’s not. And I think your point’s really great in so much as you know, full funnel and buying groups, and again, there are groups, but each each group consists of 7 to 10 people that have different media consumption habits, so it’s important to hit them where where they are, and understanding that, and allowing, if you do a multi channel approach with us and we collect the data, we can say these sub segments of your buying group are consuming media on video, display and email. This sub segment is consuming on display video and content syndication, right? So it allows us to really provide the insights and intelligence needed to optimize the reduced spend that you have to better garner the ROI that you’re looking for.   Christian Klepp  17:02 Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. You’ve talked about it a little bit already, but like we know that in B2B, we’re mostly dealing with, as you said, a buying committee consisting of anywhere between 7 to 10 people. They all have different roles and responsibilities, different motivations for either using or not using said service provider or said approach. So how can teams implement, I would say B2B marketing initiatives that strategically address the buying committee’s concerns and questions. Keith Turco  17:34 It’s really gaining… I keep on going back to the same two words, and I apologize if I sound repetitive, right? But the insights and intelligence are critical to understand the buying groups, what they’re looking for. Let’s dissect it a little bit, right? So if you were to look at the top of the buying group chain, you’ve got C suite executives. Those C suite executives consume media in very different ways because they have very different schedules and are on the road quite a lot, so they’ll be listening to podcasts more than they’ll be watching a CTV kind of application that most will probably want to watch on a bigger screen versus a smaller screen, right? So it’s understanding which businesses decision makers are interested in what categories, right? So you’ve got C suite that sit across multiple views. You’ve got manager levels that are really focused on one specific business unit that will play very differently than, and the messaging to them will play very differently than a C suite person that is across multiple and then they tend to consume media in very different ways, both as individual people as well as from a professional standpoint. The more busy road runner type consumes media and snippets. And you know, we also talk about thumb stopping creative and thumb stopping messaging, because we know that they’re on their phones more than they are on an iPad or a laptop. So the insights that you get from that and the intelligence that you get from that data collection will help you be that much more effective when targeting different individuals inside of a buying group. Christian Klepp  19:16 And it’s also, I would say, about trying to close that trust cap, right? Because there is especially B2B, there’s this whole notion of like, people tend to trust slower, for lack of a better description. So there’s that effort, through that approach, to try to like, build that trust, build that credibility. Because it does take time. This isn’t something where you know they have to make a decision in 48 hours, right? It takes, it takes much longer. Keith Turco  19:42 And I think important, when you close the trust gap, you shorten the sales cycle. So when you shorten the sales cycle, it’s much quicker route, quicker route to ROI, that’s proven by both the marketing and sales team. So the quicker the trust gap is closed, the quicker the cycle happens. Christian Klepp  19:59 Exactly, exactly so. And based on that, like, what role does a performance based approach play in winning over the different members of the buying committee? And you’ve touched on some of these aspects already. Keith Turco  20:13 Again, that the knowledge that you gain from performance based approaches. Everything is measurable, right? Let’s pause for half a second there when we talk about performance marketing, which is obviously next gen of… it started as database marketing and then went into one to one marketing, and then it went into digital marketing, and now it’s performance marketing, because everything is measurable, the insights you collect from that absolutely make a difference, whereas traditional old school advertising of the 70s, 80s and even somewhat 90s was, let’s just hit them with a big message, right? I think it’s important to talk about performance marketing being branded response. Everything you do should both build a brand and elicit a response. So we’re not saying performance marketing at the risk of neglecting branding. We’re saying performance marketing inclusive of branding in the marketplace, so the loyalty and familiarity come to play. Christian Klepp  21:17 Yes, yes, exactly. I was going to say, if you were going to throw a brand out the window like Don Draper would come back and say, Hey, man… Keith Turco  21:25 Absolutely not. Brand is critical, because you are obviously to your point play on the loyalty side, right? And you know, affinity plays a big role in previous experience with existing brands, and people are loyal to certain brands, so we’re not throwing all of the traditional advertising metrics out the window either, but everything that, everything that we put in the marketplace, should play a dual role of building a brand and eliciting a measurable response. Christian Klepp  21:54 Yeah, that’s it. That’s it. So for this next question, not trying to scare anybody, but you guys did conduct a lot of research together with Harris Poll, and you came back with some really interesting figures, right? So one of them that you did together with Harris poll was shows that nearly 73% of marketing decision makers believe AI generated creative will define the future of advertising. So how will that fact alone replace traditional advertising as we know it? Keith Turco  22:27 I don’t think it replaces. I’ll go back to the same answer that we started at. I think it enhances, right? So 73% of the respondents absolutely see AI playing a role in their marketing and advertising, and it allows them to learn from the data that they collect, adapt and make changes quickly. It allows them to take into consideration geographical differences and business unit focused differences. It also allows you to take on the demographic insights, not just the firmographic insights, right? So if I know that Christian is living in Europe and is focused on certain business functions, but in his personal life, also likes to ski or golf, I’m oversimplifying it, right? But AI allows you to say, Oh, well, this visual will appeal to Christian. This cultural nuance and difference will appeal to Christian, and it allows you to hyper target in a much different way. That is we’ve advanced to that, had advanced to that pre AI, but it was a bit more manually intensive than it will be and is today from an AI based perspective. Christian Klepp  23:40 Now that you’ve explained it that way, that hopefully puts some of these doubts or fears a little bit to rest, because it’s an it’s an enhancement, or it should be viewed and treated as an enhancement mechanism, rather than a complete like disruption. Keith Turco  23:53 Absolutely, and that’s where, when I started, there is still a world where creativity is paramount, and that’s at the original conceptual stages, right? But what would take us months to make international adaptations and/or having three or four different pivot tables come together to say this creative with this copy block against this target audience with this message, so it’s the confluence of data that allows for easier output, from an AI perspective, to make it much more tailored to the desired consumer of that content. Christian Klepp  24:34 This same report that I mentioned previously, it also mentions that about 90% of companies are exploring new ways to reach audiences, and you did talk about that so but again, what are some of these channels and how will they impact the B2B marketing moving forward? Keith Turco  24:48 Yeah, first and foremost, you’re looking at social as a new avenue beyond the B2B LinkedIn social perspective, which plays a significant role in the B2B campaigns, but it’s also figuring out where Christian or Keith are consuming in their personal lives. So it’s not shocking that if you’re on Tiktok or Instagram or on our YouTube channel, that you’ll see some B2B messages that are out there. Early on, we knew from an event based perspective, that lots of business decision makers were watching golf, watching tennis. So sports has always and will continue to play a role, even in the B2B space. But it’s a good example of finding your consumer interests and where they overlap with your business interests. And it’s the same kind of thing from from that perspective, as well as understanding. I keep going back to the same message of Right place, right time, right audience, right segment. But so when you look at the new mediums, or the consumer based mediums, you know it’s understanding that where the personal interests come together with professional interests, and are they on Facebook? Are they on Instagram? Are they on YouTube? Are they on X and where are they playing, and how are they playing in those spaces, and where can I get the overlap? And, you know, from a business and personal perspective, also going back to day parts, right? Are they exercising on the treadmill at 5am, 6am, seven, 7am? Are they doing it in the PM? Are you catching them on their drive to and from the office? Maybe not five days a week anymore, but three days a week, right? Understanding, it’s funny, but you know, even dissecting the day of the week and how you you you buy media and how you serve it, right? So we know that if people are hybrid, they’re most of the time, they’re in the office Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and not necessarily in the office on Mondays and Fridays. So you might catch them in different aspects of different parts of the week as well, day parts days of the week. Christian Klepp  26:56 It’s really interesting that you bring that up, because I had a gentleman on a little bit earlier this year that spoke about what he called Time of Day Marketing, and what he meant by that is like, is Keith the same person, or does he consume the same content, as an example, right at lunchtime, in the afternoon or or in the evening, before it goes to bed? And knowing that, and it’s going back to your ability to analyze and aggregate that data and spot these trends, right? That will help people to determine, Okay, so based on this time of the day when this person is consuming that content, what would be the best and most effective channel to use to reach out to said person? Because it could be a different channel. Keith Turco  27:35 Yeah, definitely. And I think looking at, we called it day parts, right? It’s what day part makes the most sense against which target audience. And it’s it is especially now, because we can gather that information and see when they’re consuming so going back to your earlier questions around performance marketing. Used to be, let’s just run it and see. You know that you would, we would always buy media in day part, and you could even buy it, obviously, from a program based perspective, so you’re but really dissecting and understanding which day parts individuals from the buying group consume media to your point, am I during lunchtime? Am I toggling off of my business channels and onto my personal channels. And that’s where I think to the point you made, and the point I made, that’s where it comes together, is personal demographics associated with firmographics and business decision makers, and where we can find them in their personal lives, not just their professional lives. You don’t just work between the hours of nine and five anymore, and you don’t just think about work between the hours of nine and five. Christian Klepp  28:44 That’s it. That’s it. Yeah, Keith, I had one follow up question for you, and I know that this isn’t really social media, per se, but what’s your take on Reddit, and how significant Do you think that is to B2B? Keith Turco  28:52 I think it’s it’s making, it’s making a play in the B2B space, absolutely. And I think we’d be remiss not to understand the impact it has on the B2B space. Finally, I have just asked the team to double click on Reddit, literally in the last couple of business days, to see what you know, what the impact of Reddit can be, and can it be measured in the B2B space. So I definitely think. Man, I don’t know if I would classify it as a social channel, but it’s kind of a publishing social. It’s kind of a little bit both. Christian Klepp  29:29 It straddles that those worlds, as I like to call it, right, like, it’s a little bit. Yeah, it’s hybrid. There you go. There you go. Absolutely. Okay. So again, in our previous conversation, you mentioned that the most effective B2B campaigns will be ones that combine AI driven insights with creativity and multi channel orchestration to deliver personalization at scale. So that’s a slightly different take to what you said earlier. So could you. Please elaborate on that a bit. Keith Turco  30:01 The personalization at scale, I don’t know that I view it as different. I kind of view it same, right? Christian Klepp  30:08 Same, okay. Keith Turco  30:09 Because it allows you to personalize based on the different data points that you collect and information that you collect from performance marketing, right? So personalization at scale allows me to say, okay, Christian is different than Keith, who’s different than Joe, who all work in the same organization might make might overlap with 80% of their business decisions, and 20% will be standalone. So performance marketing is, if done properly, is personalization at scale. It allows you to scale on a much bigger level, to ensure that you can have the sub segments be personalized, and have the information that you serve up to them resonate based on their personal interests and business interests. Christian Klepp  30:56 Yeah, absolutely, I guess the trick. And you’ve probably seen this happen to this, there’s companies out there that are using the personalization at scale, or they’re approaching it the wrong way. I would say they try to go in under the guise of personalization, but what actually is a bit more of a veiled sales pitch. Keith Turco  31:13 I agree, and I think that if you, if you can really tap into where the world comes together, of personal and professional interests and apply that to the individual customer or consumer. You can truly personalize on what makes it tick, and I think personalization at scale isn’t just a creative comment, it’s a media comment, right? It’s I can personalize the media journey based on how I know Christian is consuming media throughout the day, so it’s where content and creativity match media consumption. Christian Klepp  31:49 Absolutely, absolutely okay. I’m going to ask you a soapbox question, if that’s okay with you. So let’s zero in on the topic of performance marketing, because that is your area. What is the status quo in performance marketing that you passionately disagree with, and why? Keith Turco  32:12 From a B2B performance marketing perspective, I think we talk about right place, right time, right message. And I think the status quo is that creative doesn’t matter, because if you serve the right message to the right person at the right time, creative won’t make an impact. And I’ll go back to branded response. I think the status quo is creative doesn’t play as big of role as it used to, and I would disagree, I talked about thumb stopping. You have to get people to stop, right? Because people are constantly scrolling and they’re being barraged with message after message after message. So what will resonate? And I do think that, you know, building a brand that has integrity, that creates loyalty. So to me, it’s the proper balance of brand and demand, or branded response that should be looked at again. I think we’ve probably taken a 10 year hiatus from that, and it was just about right message, right time. And it worked because it was thumb stopping at the time. But given the overload of messages, and exactly what we’re talking about, Christian of hitting people in their personal lives with professional messages, there’s an overload of messages that happen. So it’s kind of bringing all of your the soapbox questions, bringing all of your questions together, right? Which is what it’s intended to do. So it’s funny, because you you know you can absolutely understand that you can shorten the sales cycle by creating brand affinity. You talked about, is AI a threat to advertising. Actually, it’s an enhancement, because brand, to me, in my mind, still plays a significant role. And it’s bringing the two worlds together that will differentiate the top notch marketers of tomorrow. Christian Klepp  34:08 Absolutely, absolutely. And it goes back to something that you said earlier. I mean, this whole ecosystem is in a constant state of evolution, so marketers better learn to quote what you said, to embrace it, rather than to push back at it, right, or to push back on it, right? Keith Turco  34:24 I think the key is evolution. It’s not abandonment, right? And net new activities, right? So email was an evolution of direct mail. This display was an evolution of, you know, the 15 second video kind of thing, right? It’s how do we evolve, leverage what we’ve, what we know and what worked, and evolve it to make it better? It’s not necessarily, in my mind, a replacement of, sure, will it take the place of certain aspects of things, absolutely, but how can you use it to enhance and add versus feel threatened by it? Christian Klepp  35:03 Absolutely, absolutely. Keith, this conversation was dynamite. Thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your experience and expertise with the listeners. Quick introduction to yourself and how folks out there can get in touch with you. Keith Turco  35:15 Sure. Keith Turco, CEO of Madison Logic, you can find me on LinkedIn. Would love to talk to you about your business needs and how we can help you from ABM perspective. Christian Klepp  35:27 Fantastic, fantastic. Once again, Keith, thanks so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure. Keith Turco  35:33 Thank you, Christian. You have a great day. Christian Klepp  35:34 Thanks. Bye bye.

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In this episode, we welcome Steve Rog, CRO at Cyera, one of the fastest-growing technology companies in the world. Steve opens up about his journey from a technical networking background to becoming a high-impact leader in cybersecurity. We unpick how he landed one of the industry's most sought-after CRO roles and why Cyera's culture of humility and teamwork keeps them winning. Steve shares profound lessons on seeking out mentors, the critical importance of Emotional Intelligence (EQ) in delivery, and why he views leadership as a responsibility to help others reach their "ceiling".

Jason Lemkin is the founder of SaaStr, the world's largest community for software founders, and a veteran SaaS investor who has deployed over $200 million into B2B startups. After his last salesperson quit, Jason made a radical decision: replace his entire go-to-market team with AI agents. What started as an experiment has transformed into a new operating model, where 20 AI agents managed by just 1.2 humans now do the work previously handled by a team of 10 SDRs and AEs. In this conversation, Jason shares his hands-on experience implementing AI to run his sales org, including what works, what doesn't, and how the GTM landscape is quickly being transformed.We discuss:1. How AI is fundamentally changing the sales function2. Why most SDRs and BDRs will be “extinct” within a year3. What Jason is observing across his portfolio about AI adoption in GTM4. How to become “hyper-employable” in the age of AI5. The specific AI tools and tactics he's using that have been working best6. Practical frameworks for integrating AI into your sales motion without losing what works7. Jason's 2026 predictions on where SaaS and GTM are heading next—Brought to you by:DX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchersVercel—Your collaborative AI assistant to design, iterate, and scale full-stack applications for the webDatadog—Now home to Eppo, the leading experimentation and feature flagging platform—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/we-replaced-our-sales-team-with-20-ai-agents—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/182902716/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Jason Lemkin:• X: https://x.com/jasonlk• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonmlemkin• Website: https://www.saastr.com• Substack: https://substack.com/@cloud—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Jason Lemkin(04:36) What SaaStr does(07:13) AI's impact on sales teams(10:11) How SaaStr's AI agents work and their performance(14:18) How go-to-market is changing in the AI era(19:19) The future of SDRs, BDRs, and AEs in sales(22:03) Why leadership roles are safe(23:43) How to be in the 20% who thrive in the AI sales future(28:40) Why you shouldn't build your own AI tools(30:10) Specific AI agents and their applications(36:40) Challenges and learnings in AI deployment(42:11) Making AI-generated emails good (not just acceptable)(47:31) When humans still beat AI in sales(52:39) An overview of SaaStr's org(53:50) The role of human oversight in AI operations(58:37) Advice for salespeople and founders in the AI era(01:05:40) Forward-deployed engineers(01:08:08) What's changing and what's staying the same in sales(01:16:21) Why AI is creating more work, not less(01:19:32) Why Jason says these are magical times(01:25:25) The "incognito mode test" for finding AI opportunities(01:27:19) The impact of AI on jobs(01:30:18) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Building a world-class sales org | Jason Lemkin (SaaStr): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-world-class-sales-org• SaaStr Annual: https://www.saastrannual.com• Delphi: https://www.delphi.ai/saastr/talk• Amelia Lerutte on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amelialerutte/• Vercel: https://vercel.com• What world-class GTM looks like in 2026 | Jeanne DeWitt Grosser (Vercel, Stripe, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-the-best-gtm-teams-do-differently• Everyone's an engineer now: Inside v0's mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Replit: https://replit.com• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io• The exact AI playbook (using MCPs, custom GPTs, Granola) that saved ElevenLabs $100k+ and helps them ship daily | Luke Harries (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ai-marketing-stack• Bolt: https://bolt.new• Lovable: https://lovable.dev• Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai• Samsara: https://www.samsara.com/products/platform/ai-samsara-intelligence• UiPath: https://www.uipath.com• Denise Dresser on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/denisedresser• Agentforce: https://www.salesforce.com/form/agentforce• SaaStr's AI Agent Playbook: https://saastr.ai/agents• Brian Halligan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianhalligan• Brian Halligan's AI: https://www.delphi.ai/minds/bhalligan• Sierra: https://sierra.ai• Fin: https://fin.ai• Deccan: https://www.deccan.ai• Artisan: https://www.artisan.co• Qualified: https://www.qualified.com• Claude: https://claude.ai• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com• Gamma: https://gamma.app• Sam Blond on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sam-blond-791026b• Brex: https://www.brex.com• Outreach: https://www.outreach.io• Gong: https://www.gong.io• Salesloft: https://www.salesloft.com• Mixmax: https://www.mixmax.com• “Sell the alpha, not the feature”: The enterprise sales playbook for $1M to $10M ARR | Jen Abel: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-enterprise-sales-playbook-1m-to-10m-arr• Clay: https://www.clay.com• Owner: https://www.owner.com• Momentum: https://www.momentum.io• Attention: https://www.attention.com• Granola: https://www.granola.ai• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com• Databricks: https://www.databricks.com• Garry Tan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garrytan• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com• Cursor: https://cursor.com• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can't stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• The new AI growth playbook for 2026: How Lovable hit $200M ARR in one year | Elena Verna (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-new-ai-growth-playbook-for-2026-elena-verna• Pluribus on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/pluribus/umc.cmc.37axgovs2yozlyh3c2cmwzlza• Sora: https://openai.com/sora• Reve: https://app.reve.com• Everything That Breaks on the Way to $1B ARR, with Mailchimp Co-Founder Ben Chestnut: https://www.saastr.com/everything-that-breaks-on-the-way-to-1b-arr-with-mailchimp-co-founder-ben-chestnut/• The Revenue Playbook: Rippling's Top 3 Growth Tactics at Scale, with Rippling CRO Matt Plank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3eYtzBpjRw• 10 contrarian leadership truths every leader needs to hear | Matt MacInnis (Rippling): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/10-contrarian-leadership-truths—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

David Stifter spent 20 years as head of technology at Colony Capital, managing systems for a $60 billion private equity real estate firm. When a longtime AP specialist retired, the company lost its institutional knowledge for coding complex invoices across thousands of entities and tenant relationships. After a year evaluating RPA, template-based approaches, and early OCR solutions, David recognized that structured historical data—invoices paired with their coding—could train AI models to capture implicit business rules. Five years ago, at 40 with young children, he left his executive role to build PredictAP. The company now processes tens of thousands of invoices monthly for firms including Bridge Investment Group, demonstrating how operational expertise combined with AI can solve problems that pure technology approaches miss. Topics Discussed Identifying AI use cases with structured annotated data and human feedback loops  Moving from CTO buyer to vendor founder and discovering which networks actually convert  Building repeatable sales motion after exhausting warm introductions  Technology adoption barriers in real estate and the domain expertise requirement for vertical SaaS  Hiring sales leadership to scale from founder-led to systematic pipeline generation  Solving complete workflow integration challenges beyond isolated technical problems GTM Lessons For B2B Founders Match technical approach to problem structure, not trend: David identified three critical elements for his AI application: structured annotated data from historical invoice coding, recognizable patterns in implicit business rules, and human review as a feedback mechanism. He notes many founders "try to shove AI, the AI hammer to smash any nail, but they're not always the best use case." Six years ago, before modern LLMs, he used historical invoice-coding pairs as training data—solving the annotation problem that plagued early machine learning. Founders should evaluate whether their problem has the structural characteristics that make a given technology approach viable, rather than applying trending solutions to force market fit. Network quality reveals itself when you need something: David contrasts two early investors: a former acquisitions executive who promised extensive connections but delivered "not a single callback" after leaving their role, versus an asset manager who generated "hundreds" of leads through genuine relationships. The acquisitions person experienced "an existential crisis" realizing "my network was based upon my ability to have a massive checkbook behind me." Founders should recognize that network strength isn't tested until you're asking rather than giving—those who built relationships through consistent helpfulness rather than transactional power will see different response rates when they launch. Architect the founder-led to systematic sales transition: After two years of founder-led sales, David "hit that wall" and brought in Steve Farrell, prioritizing experience scaling from $3-5M to $20M ARR over industry-specific expertise. He notes warm intro calls are "very to the point" while cold outreach "starts hostile or skeptical"—requiring entirely different trust-building approaches. The shift required adding BDRs, AEs, and systematic content generation. Founders should hire sales leadership with specific stage experience before network depletion forces reactive hiring, and expect to rebuild positioning for skeptical buyers who lack pre-existing trust. Integrate solutions into existing workflow infrastructure: David emphasizes the failure mode of optimized point solutions: "They have a perfect solution from the technical problem but it's not going to work for this firm because it's not going to fit into their workflow." He maps the complete experience including integration with existing systems, training requirements, user experience, consistency, and speed. Technical superiority in isolation leads to "problems with adoption and retention." Founders should map every system, process, and stakeholder their solution touches, designing for workflow integration rather than isolated problem-solving. Sequence customer sophistication as you scale beyond innovators: David's initial customers were "leading edge folks" from his technology network who understood AI potential. As PredictAP matured, sales cycles became "much longer" with more conservative firms requiring higher proof thresholds. He learned that "initial sales have to be very successful and you have to have customers that advocate for you" because mainstream buyers need extensive social proof. Founders should recognize that early adopter ICP differs fundamentally from mainstream buyers—what closes innovators (technology potential) differs from what closes pragmatists (proven ROI and references), requiring distinct positioning and sales approaches for each segment. // Sponsors: Front Lines — We help B2B tech companies launch, manage, and grow podcasts that drive demand, awareness, and thought leadership. www.FrontLines.io The Global Talent Co. — We help tech startups find, vet, hire, pay, and retain amazing marketing talent that costs 50-70% less than the US & Europe. www.GlobalTalent.co // Don't Miss: New Podcast Series — How I Hire Senior GTM leaders share the tactical hiring frameworks they use to build winning revenue teams. Hosted by Andy Mowat, who scaled 4 unicorns from $10M to $100M+ ARR and launched Whispered to help executives find their next role. Subscribe here: https://open.spotify.com/show/53yCHlPfLSMFimtv0riPyM

If you've got a BDR setting appointments and an outside sales rep closing deals, here's a question that comes up constantly with MSPs: Should your AE also be generating their own pipeline? In a perfect world, here's the ideal setup: your setter fills a third to half of the AE's calendar, and the AE fills the rest themselves. Why not just have marketing and the BDR handle it all? Multiple reasons. BDRs turn over—it's often an entry-level role with higher volatility, and you don't want your pipeline to have that same volatility. Different channels work at different times, and you need consistency when one isn't performing. But here's the bigger reason most people overlook: when your outside rep is hunting, they're doing R&D for your entire business. They're hearing objections, questions, what competitive offers look like, what prospects say at the beginning of the cycle. Sales is a massive source of research and development if you just listen. Plus, I want my reps to stay hungry—Andy Grove said "success leads to complacency, only the paranoid survive." If appointments just show up on their calendar, they'll complain about lead quality and take it for granted. This episode breaks down why consistency, redundancy, hunger, and real-world intel make this approach essential for building a sales machine that doesn't rely on any single channel or person.

In this episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, our hosts John Kaplan and John McMahon are joined by Dan Fougere, a venture partner at Index Ventures and former CRO of Datadog. Dan shares insights from his extensive sales career, emphasizing the importance of developing adaptive and context-specific sales playbooks. He discusses the evolution of PLG (Product-Led Growth) strategies, the integration of AI in sales processes, and the critical need for continuous learning and adaptability. The episode also touches on Dan's philanthropic efforts, including his involvement with Homes for Our Troops and other charitable initiatives.ADDITIONAL RESOURCESConnect and learn more from Dan Fougere.Connect with Dan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danfougere/Support Homes For Our Troops: https://www.hfotusa.orgSupport Imagine Reading: https://imaginereading.com/Support No Person Left Behind Outdoors: https://www.nplboutdoors.orgRead the Guide on Six Critical Priorities for Revenue Leadership in 2026: https://hubs.li/Q03JN74V0Enjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox: https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT[00:02:24] Advice for New Sales Leaders[00:02:52] Adapting Sales Playbooks[00:03:27] The Importance of Flexibility in Sales Strategies[00:03:54] Understanding Product-Led Growth (PLG)[00:06:44] Case Study: Datadog's Sales Evolution[00:07:57] Challenges in Scaling Sales Strategies[00:08:51] Building a Sales Organization for the Future[00:12:14] The Role of a CRO in Modern Sales[00:14:48] Adapting to Market Changes[00:26:23] Traits of Effective Sales Leaders[00:34:03] The Tip of the Spear: Leading from the Front[00:34:16] Medallia: Building a Sales Process from Scratch[00:36:58] Profile of a Successful Sales Leader[00:37:47] Recruiting and Building a High-Performance Team[00:39:25] The Importance of High Standards in Hiring[00:52:41] AI's Impact on Sales and Forecasting[01:02:07] Giving Back: Charitable EndeavorsHIGHLIGHT QUOTES[00:03:21] “A big mistake is trying to force fit a playbook from a previous company into a new company.”[00:06:01] “Approach it with a beginner's mind… it's actually an advantage you only get once.”[00:10:55] “Build your outbound before you need it, because at some point you're going to need it.”[00:13:33] “98.5% of companies realize, ‘I wish I had a great sales organization to go with this great PLG motion.'”[00:19:07] “The thing that tops people out is the inability to adapt and collaborate—they become too rigid.”[00:22:25] “If you know in your heart your team is mediocre, you're never going to be great. Raise those standards.”[00:31:36] “Don't just assume you can get rid of BDRs and have AI do it. I don't see anybody telling me that's working yet." Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this comprehensive session, SaaStr CEO and Founder Jason Lemkin dives into the latest trends and developments in AI, particularly in the go-to-market (GTM) sector. The session outlines how innovative AI tools are transforming businesses, from AI SDRs and BDRs to forward-deployed engineers. Leaders in the industry are pushing the boundaries, showing higher growth rates and superior marketing efficiency. We also discuss the importance of hands-on deployment and training of AI tools to achieve success, and analyze the current and future impact of AI on B2B companies. Tune in for detailed insights and learn how to stay ahead in the rapidly evolving world of AI. --------------------- 

This episode is Sponsored in part by Salesforce:

 Connect data, automate busywork and empower teams like nobody's business with the one platform that grows with you, every step of the way. Learn how Salesforce works for Startups at salesforce.com/smb.   --------------------- This episode is Sponsored in part by Intercom:
 Fin is the #1 AI Agent for resolving complex queries like refunds, transaction disputes, and technical troubleshooting—all with speed and reliability. See how Fin can deliver the highest resolution rates and highest-quality customer experience at fin.ai/saastr.  --------------------- If you're serious about B2B and AI, you need to be in London this December.   SaaStr AI London is bringing together more than 2,000 leaders and founders for two days of practical advice on scaling into the new year.    We'll have speakers flying in from OpenAI, Wiz, Clay, Intercom, and all your favorite SaaS companies, including yours truly with Harry Stebbings for a live 20VC podcast. It'll be fun, and it's all in the heart of London.    Don't miss out: get your tickets with my exclusive discount by going to podcast.saastrlondon.com   ---------------------   Hey everybody, the biggest B2B + AI event of the year will be back - SaaStr AI in the SF Bay Area, aka the SaaStr Annual, will be back in May 2026.    With 68% VP-level and above, 36% CEOs and founders and a growing 25% AI-first professional, this is the very best of the best S-tier attendees and decision makers that come to SaaStr each year.     But here's the reality, folks: the longer you wait, the higher ticket prices can get. Early bird tickets are available now, but once they're gone, you'll pay hundreds more so don't wait.    Lock in your spot today by going to podcast.saastrannual.com to get my exclusive discount SaaStr AI SF 2026. We'll see you there.

Send us a textIn this episode we interview Molly Evola, Senior Content Marketing Manager at Customer.io. She shares a practical, system-first approach to turning everyday work into clear, consistent content. What you'll learn in this episode:How to unify product, marketing, sales, and lifecycle voices into one brand story—and keep it human to human. A simple hub-and-spoke plan: publish a guide, then repurpose it across email, blog, LinkedIn zero-click posts, and sales outreach. The operating system: an editorial Notion plan, a content request form that starts with “why” and “where,” and a quarterly roadmap. Editorial syncs with product to weave feature releases and larger themes into a single narrative. SME capture that respects schedules: 10–15 minute interviews, quick voice notes, and light editing that preserves personality. Fast workflows with transcripts from Zoom/Gong/Riverside and LLMs for outlines, pull-quotes, and structure. Sales-led content that drives pipeline: customer stories, tactical how-tos, and assets AEs and BDRs can send today. Internal promotion that actually gets seen: Slack callouts, an enablement newsletter, and Monday standups. 

Ashley Lewin has audited 30+ companies in her career and seen the same pattern: marketing teams stuck chasing MQLs while revenue stalls. In this episode, Carolyn and Trevor dig into Ashley's perspective on why MQLs keep organizations trapped in short-term thinking, and how she's applying those lessons now as Head of Marketing at Aligned.We talk through what it takes to stand up a marketing function from scratch at a hybrid PLG + sales-assisted company, why implementing HubSpot's Lead object was a foundational bet, and how “fail fast” disqualification changed the way BDRs and sales managers manage their pipeline. Ashley also shares her playbook for winning executive buy-in: showing CEOs a predictable growth equation that replaces lead volume with qualified pipeline and product activation.What You'll Learn:Why 30+ audits taught Ashley that MQLs create waste, not growth.How to split the funnel: PLG activations vs. sales-assisted pipeline.The power of clean infrastructure: standing up a true lead object in HubSpot.Why “fail fast” leads to better conversion, stronger feedback loops, and less waste.How to navigate culture change so sales isn't afraid to close lost.Why exec scorecards (not dashboards) determine whether change sticks.If your growth plan still relies on lead math, you're running on outdated assumptions. Ashley shows how to build a system that actually scales revenue, not just reporting.

In this episode of GTM Live, Carolyn joins the Growth Activated Podcast as a guest to unpack one of the biggest blind spots in GTM today: what actually happens before an opportunity is created.99% of GTM teams still can't see this stage clearly. It's the “grey area” where SDRs and BDRs are grinding—sending emails, making calls, chasing signals, running sequences—all in the hope of booking a meeting that turns into pipeline.The problem? None of this activity is tracked in a clear, causal way. Leaders only see pipeline “sources” (marketing, sales, SDR), which hides the bigger story. Pipeline isn't a source—it's a chain reaction. A trigger sparks sales work, a series of events unfolds, and only some of those reliably convert to opportunities. Most of it? Invisible. That's why pipeline creation still feels like guesswork.Carolyn explains why source-based reporting and last-touch attribution keep teams stuck, and how to instrument the pre-opportunity “factory floor” with simple metrics that expose what's really working. Key Topics in this Episode:[00:10] Carolyn's journey: 4x Head of Marketing → CEO of Passetto[07:30] The Pipeline Black Box: why pre-opp activity is invisible[09:20] Using triggers to understand what really starts sales work[14:00] Inside the factory: connect rate, time-to-meeting, qual rate, DQs[22:40] Client insight: MQLs drain resources[27:50] KPIs to rethink: drop department-source, own pipeline as a system[30:45] For marketing leaders: accountability over defense[41:55] Annual planning: fight inertia, build visibility first[44:50] Where to find Carolyn & learn more about Passetto—This episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠, a GTM advisory and instrumentation software company with a solution that eliminates the Pipeline Black Box™, the critical data hidden inside every GTM engine where leaders are flying blind when it matters most.

This episode of the OnBase Podcast features a compelling discussion with Nick Webb on the power of a modern go-to-market strategy. Host Paul Gibson and Nick explore the challenges of navigating organizational change and the critical shift from high-volume, low-quality lead generation to a targeted ABM/ABX approach. Nick shares the story of how CloudPay transformed its pipeline by moving from "net fishing" to "spear fishing," a move that quadrupled its sales pipeline.The conversation reveals why sales and marketing alignment is non-negotiable and how data-driven decisions provide the confidence needed to make bold changes. Nick details the hurdles, the mindset shifts, and the specific KPIs that were essential to driving this monumental transformation. This episode is a masterclass for any B2B leader looking to build a scalable and effective growth engine.Key TakeawaysQuality Over QuantityGenerating thousands of leads is meaningless if it doesn't translate to pipeline. Focusing on an agreed-upon ICP is the foundation of a successful GTM strategy.Shared KPIs Drive AlignmentShifting marketing's core KPI from lead volume to dollar-value pipeline ensures both sales and marketing are working toward the same goal.Data is Your Ally in ChangeUse data to prove the need for change and validate new strategies. Data-backed insights overcome resistance and build trust across teamsIt's a Partnership Not a HandoffThe old model of marketing throwing leads over the fence is broken. A modern GTM requires genuine collaboration where sales and marketing are fully integrated.Rethink Your TerminologyCalling leads "signals" reframes the follow-up process, shifting focus from pursuing an individual to understanding account-level interest.Quotes"Gone are the days where marketing people could get away with not knowing their numbers. We have to carry a number just like sales people do."Best Moments (07:22) – The Damascene Moment Nick details the realization that generating 3x more leads was actually causing the sales pipeline to fall.(09:38) – From Net Fishing to Spear Fishing The core analogy that drove CloudPay's strategic shift to a targeted ABM/ABX model.(14:25) – The New Playbook How CloudPay revolutionized its operations by changing KPIs, moving BDRs into marketing, and renaming leads to "signals."(20:00) – Overcoming Resistance Nick outlines the three groups of people in any change scenario and how to build momentum with advocates and data.(33:27) – Stopping the Attribution Wars The decision to stop attributing leads to specific departments and why it immediately ended internal friction.Shout-OutsKate Cox - CEO, Bray Leino.Tim Johnson - Field CTO, Gaming, Databricks.Andy McFarlane - VP of Marketing, Morse Micro.About the GuestNick Webb has more than 25 years of Marketing experience in world-class technology and fintech organisations, including Vodafone, Microsoft and WorldFirst. Now, as Chief Marketing Officer of CloudPay, Nick leads the Marketing team to build market awareness and drive business growth through the creation of a pipeline of leads and prospects for the Sales teams.Connect with Nick.

Should you hire BDRs or full cycle sales reps? Mark Niemiec, CRO of Salesloft thinks companies are shifting budgets away from BDR teams. At Salesloft, they already made the switch from sales engagement platform to what they call revenue orchestration.Mark's perspective: AE-generated pipeline converts 3-4x better than BDR pipeline. He predicts the BDR role that became popular around 2012 may not exist by 2026. The economics that created the BDR boom - cheap money and abundant VC funding - are gone.Mark runs revenue for a company that serves 5,000+ customers. Salesloft has captured 5-6 billion sales data points over time. When he talks about fundamental changes in B2B sales process, you listen.Mark answers the questions sales leaders are asking: Should you cut your BDR team? How does AI account planning actually work? What's the difference between sales engagement platforms and revenue orchestration? And why do most cold pitches to CROs fail?What Mark covers:

In this episode of Restoration Pros Unplugged, Clinton James (CMO, Water Restoration Marketing) sits down with Leah Hanlon (Franchise Sales & Business Development, 1-Tom-Plumber & Icon Property Rescue) to unpack exactly how restoration companies can land more commercial contracts in 2025.If you've struggled to break into the commercial market or you're ready to scale past residential feast-or-famine work, this conversation gives you the blueprint. Clinton and Leah walk through the traits of successful business development reps (BDRs), why professionalism and persistence win in commercial sales, and how your digital presence can make or break your outreach.What You'll Learn in This Episode:How to hire and train BDRs that build real trust with commercial decision-makersProven sales practices that open doors and keep you top-of-mindWhy your website, Google Business Profile, and reviews are credibility checks you can't ignoreHow to feature your BDRs online and build social proof with past commercial workThe growth system that happens when sales and marketing work togetherThis isn't theory it's the exact playbook top restoration companies are using right now to win long-term, high-value commercial contracts.Learn More About Adding a 1-Tom-Plumber Franchise with Leah:https://www.1tpfranchise.com/water-restoration-marketing/Want Personalized Help?Schedule a Free Discovery Call with Clinton (Water Restoration Marketing):https://waterrestorationmarketing.com/discovery-call/

Have you wondered why military teams have crystal clear expectations while business teams often operate in a "fricking void" of clarity? In this episode (complete with surprise appearances from Matt's son), Cam and Otis dive deep with Matt Granados, founder of Life Pulse Inc., on the missing link between expectations and performance."You have to articulate what the expectations are," Matt explains, "but then the key is you have to properly equip your people to be able to live up to them." It's this combination that's often missing in business leadership.From the fascinating distinction between high performance (unsustainable pace) and optimal performance (sustainable excellence) to the provocative question of whether we're forcing growth on people who don't need it, this conversation challenges conventional wisdom about team development. Matt even shares the four levels of performance that transform how leaders view their teams: lazy, unaware, high potential, and the elusive optimal performance.Whether you're leading a team that's struggling with clarity or you're wondering if your own "high performance" might be burning you out, Matt's practical insights offer a refreshing alternative to the "microwave theory" of leadership development.Special Link for 10x Your Team Listeners: https://www.lifepulseinc.com/coMore About Matt:Matt Granados is the founder and CEO of Life Pulse Inc., where he teaches organizations how to stop treating symptoms and finally fix their people problems—for good. A two-time #1 international bestselling author and in-demand speaker, Matt's work is grounded in real-world results, not theories. His proprietary Life Pulse Methodology fuses structure with mindset to create “Perpetual Development”—a practical, scalable system that builds high-performing individuals and teams from the inside out. Matt first proved his power by turning a Craigslist-hired crew into a $40 million sales force. Today, clients like Google, Twitter, and the U.S. Air Force use his system to improve performance, reduce burnout, and transform culture at every level. Whether he's working with executives or entry-level employees, Matt helps people take ownership of their growth and leaders build teams that run on purpose—not pressure.#10xYourTeam #TeamClarity #LeadershipDevelopment #HighPerformanceTeams #OptimalPerformance #TeamGrowth #BusinessLeadership #EmployeeDevelopment #PerformanceCulture #SustainableExcellence #LeadershipInsights #TeamEquipping #PurposeDrivenLeadership #LifePulseMethod #TeamTransformation #NextLevelLeadershipChapter Times and Titles:Setting Clear Expectations [00:00 - 18:52]Introduction to Matt GranadosThe importance of articulating standardsProperly equipping people to meet expectationsThe Military-Business Disconnect [18:53 - 25:00]"Why is it a fricking void in the business world?"Otis's experience with written expectations in the ArmyThe transition challenges for military leaders entering businessThe "All Boats Rise" Philosophy [25:01 - 42:00]Creating a culture where everyone improvesThe "microwave theory" of leadershipBuilding sustainable growth systemsA Family Interruption (and Proud Grandpa Moment) [42:01 - 43:05]Matt's son makes a surprise appearance"It's a family show!"The human side of leadership conversationsThe Four Levels of Performance [43:06 - 46:09]Lazy, unaware, high potential, high performanceThe critical fifth level: optimal performanceWhy do we force unnecessary growth on peopleHigh Performance vs. Optimal Performance [46:10 - 50:38]"High performers: high output, unsustainable pace"The subtle but drastic differencesFinding the sustainable sweet spotElevating the Whole Team [50:39 - End]The Salesforce example of valuing BDRs and SDRsTreating entry-l

We sat down with sales legend Leslie Venetz and CRO School co-founder Adem Manderovic to untangle why outbound is still stuck in 2011—and how modern SDRs and BDRs can fix it fast.Outbound targets have never been tougher, yet teams keep blasting buyers with the same tired sequences. In this no-fluff chat, we unpack a buyer-first framework that swaps brute-force tactics for trust-led outreach and market validation.Tune in and learn:+ The “earn the right” test Leslie uses before every email or call+ How to rebuild SDR metrics around market validations - fast+ Why AI tools like Clay help only when you start with real buyer insightThis episode is a must-watch if you're serious about building a profit-generating pipeline without burning trust (or your team).-----------------------------------------------------

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Ever wonder what separates a $1M agency from a $30M agency? It's not just better SEO or more employees. It's how you run the business behind the scenes. We sat down with today's featured guest to dig into what's powered his insane growth from barely crossing seven figures back when we first met… to now staring down $35–$40 million in pure service revenue. He's sharing some great advice on the evolution of his role as CEO, his new-found love for podcasting, and all kinds of golden nuggets for agency currently in the “no man's land”. Chris Dreyer is the CEO of Rankings.io, a law firm marketing services agency that delivers exceptional results for attorneys without compromising on customer service. He'll discuss his agency's substantial growth from under a million to over $30 million in revenue, his reliance on data and key performance indicators (KPIs), the transformative role of AI in various aspects of his operations, the importance of in-person client meetings for building relationships, and much more. If you're still guessing your numbers or putting off tracking your team's time — you'll want to pay attention. In this episode, we'll discuss: The CEO's true job. Hidden agency growing pains. The key to client happiness. In-person hustle and outbound sales. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Why Data Became Like a Religion Back when Chris and I first locked ourselves in a tiny Atlanta room for a workshop, Rankings.io was barely peeking over the $1M mark. He was still deciding who to serve and how. Fast forward about 8-9 years to today, and he says there's no bigger reason for his success than his top-to-bottom data obsession. Most agency owners track just enough to feel busy: a few pipeline numbers, maybe close rates if they're fancy. But Chris tracks everything. He knows the lifetime value of a client paying $5K a month versus $10K a month. He knows exactly how each account manager's retention rate impacts revenue. He even scores sales reps like a fantasy football league. And it's not just vanity metrics. If an account manager is great at keeping clients but terrible at preserving the original retainer size, they fix it. If time tracking shows poor utilization? They fix it. It's relentless. The big unlock for him was getting a real CFO to build this machine — and shifting from QuickBooks to more robust systems like Sage. No more flying blind or hoping for the best. If you don't know your LTV, churn, win rates, and retention by the exact dollar, you're leaving growth up to luck. How AI Became His Secret Weapon (and Why You Should Care) Most agency owners dabble in AI: a blog here, a few prompts there. Chris has gone full cyborg. Every single month, his team uploads their entire reporting package into ChatGPT. They don't just glance at dashboards — they get an AI board of advisors that points out trends, flags issues, and even suggests campaigns based on sales funnel leaks. If they have clients applying but not booking, the AI says: launch a re-engagement sequence. If they're not sure why the expense spike looks off, the AI will cross-check it with your event calendar. Chris used to hate looking at financials — now AI does the heavy lifting. When it comes to AI agents, they're not doing as much and prefer to use AI assistants for content, link building, and optimization. He even has an AI board of advisers with different personalities. This isn't replacing people. It's leveling them up. It's like strapping a rocket to every role — so you can do more without burning out your team. If you're not leaning on AI for context and next steps, you're probably making slower (and worse) decisions than your competitors. The CEO's True Job: Gotta Catch ‘em All Now that he's running an agency pushing $40M in service revenue (not pass-through, real revenue) Chris defines his role as: “Playing people Pokemon. Gotta catch ‘em all. I get the clients, and my president keeps them.” He sets the vision, runs point on marketing and sales, hosts the podcast, and stays the face of Rankings.io. Meanwhile, his right-hand man, Stephen, owns retention and delivery. This split lets Chris hunt big opportunities without getting bogged down in fulfillment fires. It's the perfect example of how an owner's role must evolve. If you're still stuck in the weeds, wearing every hat, and calling that “leadership” — you're capping your agency's growth. The goal isn't to do everything. It's to build a team that does everything better than you ever could alone. And Chris's story is living proof. The Hidden Growing Pains Nobody Warns You About Ever heard of the dreaded “no man's land” for agencies? For Chris, it began after he crossed the $8M to $10M mark and things got painfully awkward fast. In this stage, you're forced to hire the roles that don't directly bring in revenue: HR, finance, middle managers. Suddenly, your once-scrappy margins start leaking everywhere. It feels counterintuitive, all these new salaries, and yet no extra billables. But here's the catch: this is the awkward but necessary step that'll set you up with the infrastructure to move from $10M to $15M, $20M or beyond. This is generally the zone where you feel like an imposter CEO — one foot in the hustle, one foot in the corporate world you swore you'd never build. The truth is, every growing agency owner faces this inflection point. And if you get it right, you build a structure that can handle scale. If you get it wrong, you risk staying stuck at the same revenue ceiling year after year. You Can't Turn It Off — And Maybe That's Okay Most founders agree they find it difficult to turn their business brain off, and honestly, they don't want to. Business is the hobby. While their kids are at soccer practice, their brain is rewriting the service agreement or tweaking a proposal. Sure, there's a cost. Vacations come with podcast episodes in the car. Weekends sometimes mean scanning P&L spreadsheets. But, as Jason and Chris admit: the key to staying sane isn't to “balance it perfectly” — it's to have the right partner who gets the obsession. Because when you're building a business that supports dozens, even hundreds of families, switching it off just isn't realistic. So you find the support system that lets you go all in and come home for dinner. Why Core Values Actually Matter Early on, you might roll your eyes at “company core values.” Chris admits he did and saw it as just a lot of fluff. But once you're managing 50, 100, or more people, vague values don't cut it — you need a shared language to protect the culture. His agency now runs on three non-negotiables: Excellence (do great work, always) Execution (don't just talk, get it done) Grit (stick with hard things for the long haul) While he used to rely on platitudes like “team player” — he sees now that the wrong person will be weeded out fast as long as the core values are clear. He also bails at the mention of “work-life balance” in an interview. Because for this team, the culture is built for people who like working hard. The Surprising Key to Client Happiness Think your killer case studies will keep clients happy forever? Think again. Client happiness is very subjective and your biggest churn risk isn't bad work — it's bad relationships. Sure, you can track Net Promoter Scores all day. But real retention comes from catching early warning signs, which Chris calls “saves”. A client going quiet, missing calls, or hinting they're not vibing with an account manager should be signs to take action, if you start tracking them, as he has. And here's the overlooked move more agencies need to revive: visit your clients in person. Everyone's got Zoom fatigue. Booking a flight and breaking bread goes a long way toward making you not just a vendor, but a trusted partner. How In-Person Hustle and Outbound Hunting Keep You on Top Even with all the fancy dashboards, AI copilots, and mega forecasting tools, Chris and his president still jump on planes to shake hands with clients. They even budget for it. When you're running a high-ticket service where each client can be worth $125,000 or more over their lifetime, dropping a couple grand to show up in person is a no-brainer. It's how you show you care more than the next guy who's sending templated emails and hiding behind Slack. Chris's take is simple: Want to stand out? Do what you say you're going to do. Show up. Make your clients look like heroes. When a big-name CEO flies out to see you — even if you didn't sell them the deal — you remember that. Big relationships should get the handshake treatment. Using AI for Confidence in an Agency Acquisition Chris didn't buy another agency until he was already pushing $30 million, while most owners pull that trigger way earlier to leapfrog plateaus. Why wait? According to Chris, he didn't have the confidence to do it. Until AI changed that. He used ChatGPT to run diligence questions, draft the LOI, check for financial holes, and sanity-check the entire earnout structure. Sure, he has a great CFO — but that AI second brain made the whole thing faster and way less intimidating. Now that he's got the first deal under his belt, he's hungry for more. That's how scale works: get clarity, take the shot, rinse and repeat. Pro tip: If you're scared to buy, partner, or hire, dump your numbers into AI. Ask it what it would worry about if it were buying you. It'll show you every skeleton in the closet — so you can fix them now. Why Outbound Sales is Your Insurance Policy Chris used to be very resistant to doing outbound but now it is saving him from the Google rollercoaster. Inbound is sexy when it works. But we all know it can be feast or famine. Algorithms change. Referrals dry up. And you're stuck hoping this month's pipeline looks like last month's. After getting tired of hoping, Chris built an outbound team that's now about 30 people deep. He's got BDRs making 50 high-quality calls a day, sending out handwritten notes with books, running multi-channel outreach, and gifting prospects to cut through the noise. Each practice area has its own sales enablement rep feeding lists, building sequences, and arming the closers with context. It's consistent and it means Rankings.io can hunt, not just fish. Big lesson: if you don't control at least three lead sources (inbound, outbound, and strategic partners), your agency's growth is on borrowed time. Don't put all your eggs in Google's basket. Outbound is insurance. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

show notes

This week on Revenue Rehab, Brandi Starr is joined by Sherry Grote, creator of the Harmony Hero framework and a B2B marketing leader with 25+ years transforming brands and driving revenue. Sherry believes marketing and HR hold untapped power as revenue accelerators—but only if their voices are amplified beyond traditional roles and given real influence in the boardroom. Challenging the status quo that sidelines these functions, Sherry argues that true revenue growth hinges on aligning people, brand, and culture—not just products and pipelines. If you're ready to rethink where brand power really drives the bottom line, tune in—and decide if Sherry's perspective changes your mind.  Episode Type: Problem Solving - Industry analysts, consultants, and founders take a bold stance on critical revenue challenges, offering insights you won't hear anywhere else. These episodes explore common industry challenges and potential solutions through expert insights and varied perspectives.  Bullet Points of Key Topics + Chapter Markers: Topic #1: Marketing & HR—The Undervalued Revenue Drivers [04:44]  Sherry Grote boldly argues that marketing and HR are essential drivers of revenue and brand but are consistently marginalized in executive decision-making. She challenges the conventional belief that marketing is a “faucet you can just turn on” and spotlights how HR's influence on culture is chronically overlooked—particularly damaging “in an artificial everything world.” Brandi Starr echoes the misalignment, noting most companies pigeonhole this partnership as “marketing giving HR tchotchkes,” prompting a debate on the true strategic potential of these functions when united.  Topic #2: Boardroom Influence—Turning Up the Volume on Brand Voices [07:14]  Sherry argues that the boardroom routinely sidelines marketing and HR, relegating them to after-thought status in favor of sales, finance, and product updates. “HR, we really don't have time for you to talk, so just put your slide in there and we'll just make sure that the board has that.” She proposes a radical change: marketing and HR should proactively demonstrate their impact on revenue, culture, and pipeline to win advocates among CFOs, CROs, and CPOs—shifting from self-promotion to integrated business influence.  Topic #3: Rethinking Compensation and Collaboration for Revenue Alignment [17:50]  Sherry challenges revenue leaders to recognize compensation misalignment as a core driver of inefficiency and discord between marketing, sales, and HR. She critiques the “rip and replace” approach to CMOs, tying it to systemic incentive problems: “It's often the head of marketing that really sees this breakdown and challenge and having that real relationship with HR could be an opportunity to help to influence that.” Brandi pushes for actionable solutions, leading to a discussion about moving BDRs into marketing and partnering with HR to overhaul incentive structures for true revenue team alignment.  The Wrong Approach vs. Smarter Alternative  The Wrong Approach: “A leader before they've had a time to actually make an impact in the business.” – Sherry Grote  Why It Fails: Swapping out marketing or HR leaders too quickly disrupts momentum and undermines strategic initiatives before they can take hold. This short-sighted turnover prevents teams from making the incremental changes necessary for lasting impact and damages organizational culture and continuity.  The Smarter Alternative: Instead of jumping to leadership changes, companies should focus on building strong alignment and rapport between sales, marketing, and HR, giving leaders the space and support needed to drive meaningful, long-term business results.  The Most Damaging Myth  The Myth: “Marketing is a faucet that you can just turn on and you will get instant results.” – Sherry Grote  Why It's Wrong: This belief leads organizations to expect immediate impact from marketing efforts, creating unrealistic timelines and frustration when quick results don't materialize. As Sherry explains, marketing is actually more like a well that requires consistent pumping—building effective campaigns takes time, ongoing effort, and a systems approach. When companies operate under the “faucet” myth, they make disruptive changes or swap out talent prematurely, undermining long-term progress and ROI.  What Companies Should Do Instead: Treat marketing as an engine that needs sustained investment and incremental improvement. Allow marketing leaders time to build momentum, focus on developing processes, and foster strong cross-departmental relationships—especially with HR—to build a people-first culture that supports brand and revenue growth.  The Rapid-Fire Round  Finish this sentence: If your company has this problem, the first thing you should do is _ “Ensure that you have built rapport with sales, marketing and HR to be in total alignment.” – Sherry Grote  What's one red flag that signals a company has this problem—but might not realize it yet? “If your employees don't have psychological safety, then you do not have a culture that is going to have a positive brand influence.”  What's the most common mistake people make when trying to fix this? “Changing out a leader before they've had time to actually make an impact in the business.”  What's the fastest action someone can take today to make progress? “Know what your 5% is—be clear on what makes you different from everyone else doing your type of job, whether you're in HR, marketing, finance, or sales.”  Buzzword Banishment: Sherry's buzzword to banish is "amplify." She dislikes this term because in today's environment—where it's applied to everything—the word has been overused and lost its impact and meaning. Sherry notes that while "amplify" once described increasing awareness or engagement in a meaningful way, its ubiquity now renders it ineffective and even frustrating to encounter.  Links:  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherrygrote/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theharmonyhero  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/The-Harmony-Hero/61568386591394  Website: https://www.theharmonyhero.com  Subscribe, listen, and rate/review Revenue Rehab Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts , Amazon Music, or iHeart Radio and find more episodes on our website RevenueRehab.live  

AI, BDRs & Building a GTM Team of the Future – with Rachel Truair, CMO at Simpro Group Episode Title: How to Scale GTM with AI Agents, Digital Twins & a Growth Mindset Still wondering how AI fits into go-to-market? This episode delivers a masterclass in what actually works—from real AI SDR deployments to digital twins for execs. If you're leading a GTM team, Rachel Truair's playbook is required listening. What We Talk About: AI SDRs that actually convert: Rachel shares how Simpro's AI BDRs (like Daniella and Sam) are handling warm leads, executing playbooks, and integrating with human reps—cutting "no contact" rates by 80%. Workforce planning in an AI era: Learn why Rachel's biggest surprise wasn't in sales, but marketing ops. Autonomous strategy, not just execution: She breaks down the shift from AI as a tool to AI as a co-pilot for market insights, segmentation, and campaign direction. Digital twins for leadership scale: How Rachel created a digital twin of herself to scale comms, culture, and visibility across global teams—including writing her monthly team updates. How to evolve your org without boiling the ocean: Practical tips on building a maturity model for AI and where to start with lean teams. AI and culture change: Why adoption isn't a tooling problem, it's a hiring one. And what questions she now asks in interviews. Rapid Fire Round: Best AI tip: Don't boil the ocean. Favorite workflow: Digital twin board members for scenario planning. Go-to AI trend source: Simpro's exec Slack. Hidden gem tool: Peak AI for search visibility. Tool Spotlight: Ken and Erin demo Eleven Labs' conversational AI agent builder and walk through creating a journalist-style interviewer bot that captures SME insights for content, enablement, and more. Call to Action: Not using AI yet in GTM? Let us know. We want to talk to you. Reach out for a chance to be featured on a future episode. Subscribe, Rate & Share: If you got value from this episode, hit subscribe and leave a review—it helps more GTM teams learn how to lead (not lag) with AI. Connect: Simpro Group: https://www.simprogroup.com ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io Six Sense Conversational Email: https://6sense.com Subscribe, give us a rating and share with a friend! It helps us get the word out. FutureCraft is where GTM gets built, not just discussed. Let's keep crafting the future together.  

  Wow, did you know that the secret to Nooks' sales success is a surprising ratio of BDRs to AEs? They're breaking the mold and it's paying off big time. But how are they doing it? Find out in this podcast episode and prepare to be amazed. Stay tuned for the unexpected twist that's revolutionizing their sales strategy. Want to transform your outbound sales game and see genuine connections with prospects? Discover the solution that will boost your productivity and help you achieve these results. Let's dive in and revolutionize your outbound sales strategies. AI and Human Touch: The New Sales Edge Hannah Willson, CRO at Nooks, reveals how blending advanced AI tools with genuine human engagement is transforming outbound sales. By leveraging intent signals and AI-driven prospecting while maintaining authentic connections, sales teams can build stronger pipelines and accelerate growth. This is Hannah Willson's story, this week's special guest: Hannah Willson's introduction to the world of leveraging AI in outbound sales strategies stemmed from her role as the CRO at Nooks. It was her hands-on experience in coaching sales teams and her deep understanding of the challenges in pipeline development that propelled her towards exploring modern shifts in sales tactics. Witnessing the evolution of intent signals and the potential of AI-driven approaches, Hannah recognized the immense impact of integrating advanced technology with human-to-human engagement in sales. This realization kindled her commitment to embracing innovative sales techniques, positioning her as a trailblazer in navigating the dynamic sales landscape. Hannah's journey serves as an inspiring example for sales leaders, encouraging them to adapt and thrive in the ever-evolving sales domain through strategic utilization of AI and cutting-edge sales methodologies. Sales is changing so much right now. We have technology that we never had before. It's the organizations that are really leveraging that technology and still leveraging the human element that are the ones that are really accelerating over others. - Hannah Willson About Hannah Willson Hannah Willson, the Chief Revenue Officer at Nooks, boasts an impressive 20-year sales career, with a decade at a major publicly traded company and another decade at startups in the Bay Area. Her current role sees her driving outbound sales strategies using Nooks' comprehensive AI platform, including parallel dialers, AI bots for sales coaching, and AI prospector tools for automated list building and research. With her transition from being a long-time customer to now leading Nooks' sales team, Hannah brings a unique blend of firsthand experience and strategic leadership to the table. Her expertise in modern pipeline development and the fusion of technology and human touch in sales makes her a sought-after voice in the outbound sales landscape. In this episode, you will be able to: Master AI for outbound sales in order to revolutionize your approach and skyrocket your results. Cultivate a thriving calling culture that can transform your sales team's performance and boost morale. Embrace the human element in modern sales, a key to forming genuine connections and closing more deals. Harness intent signals for pipeline development that can supercharge your lead generation efforts and drive conversions. Unveil social selling best practices for B2B sales that can unlock new opportunities and expand your client base.   The key moments in this episode are: 00:00:00 - Challenges in Pipeline Development 00:03:16 - Hannah's Background and Nooks 00:05:10 - Hannah's Athletic Experience 00:07:21 - Shifts in Modern Pipeline Development 00:12:29 - Building a Calling Culture 00:13:34 - Importance of Building a Calling Culture in Sales Teams 00:15:34 - Importance of Sales Channels and BDRs 00:17:22 - Human-to-Human Engagement in Sales 00:18:22 - The Future of Sales and AI 00:21:55 - Evolution of Intent Signals and AI-Driven Approach 00:26:05 - Importance of Preparation for Sales Calls 00:26:56 - Addressing Pipeline Development Issues 00:28:53 - Leveraging LinkedIn for Pipeline Development 00:32:33 - Social Engagement Challenges and Solutions 00:38:12 - Reimagining SDR-to-AE Ratio 00:39:02 - Importance of Hiring the Right Model 00:39:53 - Connecting with Hannah 00:41:03 - Favorite Movie and Personal Insight 00:41:44 - Podcast Closing and Call to Action Timestamped summary of this episode: 00:00:00 - Challenges in Pipeline Development Hannah discusses the difficulties in modern pipeline development, emphasizing the changing landscape and the need for organizations to leverage technology and the human element to accelerate their pipeline building efforts. 00:03:16 - Hannah's Background and Nooks Hannah shares her sales background and her recent role as CRO at Nooks, a comprehensive AI platform for outbound sales. She highlights Nooks' capabilities and her personal experience as a customer before joining the company. 00:05:10 - Hannah's Athletic Experience Hannah reveals her collegiate swimming experience and draws parallels between swimming and sales, emphasizing the importance of repetition, practice, and continuous improvement in both disciplines. 00:07:21 - Shifts in Modern Pipeline Development Hannah discusses the evolving strategies in modern pipeline development, highlighting the ineffectiveness of traditional methods and the increasing reliance on technology. She emphasizes the importance of leveraging technology while still maintaining the human element in sales efforts. 00:12:29 - Building a Calling Culture Hannah addresses the challenges of building a calling culture within sales organizations, emphasizing the time-consuming nature of cold calling and the reluctance of reps. She highlights the benefits of technology in simplifying the cold calling process and the importance of setting a productive and efficient calling culture. 00:13:34 - Importance of Building a Calling Culture in Sales Teams Hannah reflects on the fun and camaraderie of sales teams in the past and emphasizes the need to continue fostering a positive and engaging work environment, especially with remote teams. 00:15:34 - Importance of Sales Channels and BDRs Hannah discusses the importance of utilizing multiple sales channels and the role of BDRs in self-sourcing deals. She emphasizes the need for a combination of different channels based on the organization and buyer preferences. 00:17:22 - Human-to-Human Engagement in Sales The discussion delves into the significance of real human-to-human engagement in sales, particularly at events, through cold calls, and on social media. The emphasis is on genuine connections and meaningful interactions. 00:18:22 - The Future of Sales and AI Hannah highlights the importance of human-assisted AI in the sales process, where technology assists in gathering data and providing suggestions, but the human touch remains essential for meaningful engagement. 00:21:55 - Evolution of Intent Signals and AI-Driven Approach The conversation delves into the shift from old-school intent models to modern AI-driven approaches, emphasizing the depth and richness of intent signals and their impact on generating high-quality pipeline for sales teams. 00:26:05 - Importance of Preparation for Sales Calls Preparation is key before a discovery call or cold call to prevent hang-ups. Having all information in one place helps customize emails and improve engagement. 00:26:56 - Addressing Pipeline Development Issues New CROs should prioritize pipeline assessment. Looking at inbound and outbound segments helps identify and fix pipeline issues. 00:28:53 - Leveraging LinkedIn for Pipeline Development Consistent LinkedIn engagement and authentic, personalized posts from SDRs and customers can drive inbound leads and improve sales engagement. 00:32:33 - Social Engagement Challenges and Solutions Many reps struggle with posting and commenting on social media. AI tools like Flypost help streamline content creation and humanize engagement with prospects. 00:38:12 - Reimagining SDR-to-AE Ratio Nooks has a unique SDR-to-AE ratio based on pipeline generation and conversion rates, challenging traditional ratio-based structures. Tailoring team size to pipeline economics has been successful for Nooks. 00:39:02 - Importance of Hiring the Right Model Hannah discusses the importance of hiring the right model for their organization and how they constantly monitor and replicate successful models. They focus on investing in SDR organization to make them more productive using technology. 00:39:53 - Connecting with Hannah Mario asks Hannah the best way to connect with her. She suggests reaching out to her on LinkedIn and emphasizes the importance of a personalized connection request referencing the podcast. 00:41:03 - Favorite Movie and Personal Insight Hannah shares her all-time favorite movie, Elf, and how it always makes her laugh. Mario highlights the importance of mentioning Elf when reaching out to Hannah, providing a personal touch in sales interactions. 00:41:44 - Podcast Closing and Call to Action Mario thanks the audience for listening and encourages them to leave a 5-star rating and review for the podcast. He also promotes the use of FlyMSG to increase productivity. Reimagining Team Structure for Results Nooks challenges traditional sales models with a unique SDR-to-AE ratio, tailoring team size based on pipeline generation and conversion rates. This innovative approach, combined with a focus on hiring the right talent and investing in productivity tools, has fueled their sales success. Building a Winning Sales Culture The episode emphasizes the importance of cultivating a vibrant calling culture and using multiple sales channels. Consistent preparation, personalized outreach, and embracing technology like AI-driven coaching and content tools empower teams to create genuine connections and drive better results. The resources mentioned in this episode are: Connect with Hannah Willson on LinkedIn and mention specific insights from the Modern Selling podcast to start a meaningful conversation. Download FlyMSG at flymsg.io to save 20 hours or more in a month and increase productivity with a free text expander and personal writing assistant. Give the Modern Selling Podcast a five-star rating and review on iTunes to show support and help others discover the valuable content. Reach out to Nooks for more information on their comprehensive AI platform for outbound-related activities, such as parallel dialer, AI bots for coaching, and AI prospector tool for automated list building and research. Watch the movie Elf for a good laugh and a fun time. Enjoy unlimited access until May 30th     Enjoy unlimited access until May 30th     Enjoy unlimited access until May 30th  

This week on GTM Live, Carolyn sits down with Nick Flamini, host of the Sales Architecture Podcast, to explore the real reasons most go-to-market teams are still struggling—despite all the headcount, tools, and budget. They dig into the myth of “more BDRs = more pipeline,” and why most organizations are missing the data, architecture, and cross-functional alignment required to scale efficiently.Carolyn explains why “go-to-market bloat” is a symptom of deeper system issues, not bad people. She shares how Passetto is helping companies rethink how they connect marketing, sales, finance, and RevOps through a unified GTM data layer. Nick challenges the hype around AI in outbound, and the two unpack why trust, process, and measurement (not volume) are the levers that matter most.If you've ever questioned whether your CAC is actually sustainable, or felt stuck trying to prove marketing's impact, this episode is your blueprint.Key topics in this episode:Why most CRM data is unusable, and what to do about itThe epidemic of go-to-market bloat and over-hiringHow AI is flooding outbound and eroding trustWhy finance must own more of GTM efficiencyThe trap of MQL targets and performance by teamWhat it takes to build a real full-funnel revenue factoryThis episode is powered by ⁠Passetto⁠. We help high-growth and equity-backed companies turn GTM data into better decisions, faster. We unify your GTM and financial data, identify your growth levers, and help you scale. Part SaaS, part advisory. Visit ⁠passetto.com

This episode features an interview with Jen Rapp, CMO at Superside, an AI-powered creative service, trusted by 500+ top brands. Jen has over 20 years of experience developing and executing marketing strategies for high-growth companies, with a particular focus on working alongside entrepreneurial leaders to scale.She discusses selling the vision and how doing good impacts marketing, sharing her lessons from her time at Patagonia and DoorDash. She also discusses winning on meta through quality creative and driving qualified leads through virtual summits. Key Takeaways:Don't sleep on meta ads. If your ICP is on Instagram, those ads can be some of the cleanest and most effective ads to drive pipeline, especially if you have quality creative. Virtual Summits, or essentially a stack of webinars, are a great way to get emails and drive pipeline if you are truly offering great content. Sell the vision, not the product. A focus on features, instead of stories, is rarely the way to go. Quote:“  I would not have said this a year ago, when I first joined the company - number one is our meta, paid meta spend. I came to this company and I saw how much we were spending on Meta, and I was like, whoa, what the hell are these people doing? They're making mistakes left and right. Nope. We drive a majority, or a lot, I shouldn't say a majority, a lot of our qualified pipeline through our Meta spend. Our Meta spend also acts as our top of funnel awareness driver.  When we turn off meta, we basically turn off the ability of our SDRs and our BDRs to convert people to SQLs. It is invaluable. So number one, my marketing team is like rallied around creating incredible creative for Meta.”Episode Timestamps: *(03:51) The Trust Tree: Making sure customers have confidence in you*(12:12) The Playbook: The power of Meta ads*(33:10) The Dust Up: Standing up to brilliant founders*(41:01) Quick Hits: Jen's Quick HitsSponsor:Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more.Links:Connect with Ian on LinkedInConnect with Jen on LinkedInLearn more about SupersideLearn more about Caspian Studios

The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-To-Market System That Scales“You don't need more leads—you need clarity. Clarity on where your business can grow the most, the fastest, and at the highest margin. That's what a real go-to-market system delivers. It's not about volume anymore—it's about alignment, focus, and making sure every team—marketing, sales, and customer success—is executing toward the same outcome. That's how CEOs scale with confidence.” That's a quote from Sangram Vajre, and a sneak peek at today's episode.Welcome to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Kerry Curran—revenue growth expert, industry analyst, and relentless advocate for turning marketing into a revenue engine. Each episode, we bring you the strategies, insights, and conversations that help drive your revenue growth. So search for Revenue Boost in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe to stay ahead of the game.In The CEO's Strategic Growth Edge: A Go-to-Market System That Scales, I'm joined by bestselling author and GTM expert Sangram Vajre to discuss why go-to-market isn't a marketing tactic—it's a CEO-level growth system. In this episode, you'll learn the three phases every business must navigate to scale, why alignment beats activity in every growth stage, how CEOs can drive clarity, trust, and margin-focused decisions across teams, and why AI is only a threat if you're still riding the demand-gen horse.If you're a growth-minded CEO or exec, this episode gives you the roadmap and the mindset to scale faster, smarter, and stronger. Be sure to listen through to the end, where Sangram shares three key tips—his ultimate advice for any leader ready to level up their go-to-market strategy. Let's go!Kerry Curran, RBMA (00:00.77)So welcome, Sangram. Please introduce yourself and share a bit about your background and expertise.Sangram Vajre (00:06.992)Well, at the highest level, I feel like I've had the opportunity to be in the B2B space for the last two decades and have had a front-row seat to categories that have shaped how we think about go-to-market. I ran marketing at Pardot. We were acquired by ExactTarget and then Salesforce—that was a $2.7 billion acquisition. It was a huge shift in mindset, going from a $10 million company to a $10 billion one, and I learned a lot.I became a student of go-to-market, if you will. That was in the marketing automation space. Then I launched a company called Terminus, which has been acquired twice now. Along the way, I've written three books. The one we're going to talk a lot about is MOVE, which became a Wall Street Journal bestseller. That book has created a lot of opportunities and work for us.I walked into writing this book, Kerry, thinking I knew go-to-market because I had two $100M+ exits. But I walked out of the process a student of go-to-market because I learned so much. Writing it forced me to talk to folks like Brian Halligan, the CEO of HubSpot, and partners at VC firms who have seen 200 exits—not just the three I've experienced.It really expanded my vision. Now I lead a company called Go-To-Market Partners. We're a research and advisory firm focused on helping companies understand who owns go-to-market and how to run it at a transformational level. Our clients are primarily CEOs and executive teams. That's our focus.Kerry Curran, RBMA (01:46.094)Excellent. Well, I'm very excited to dive in. I first saw you speak at Inbound last fall, and what really resonated with me was the shift from just an ABM program to a company-wide GTM program—one that includes everything from problem-market fit all the way to customer success, loyalty, and retention. Really making GTM the core of revenue growth.So I'd love for you to dive in and share that framework and background.Sangram Vajre (02:23.224)Yeah. And by the way, for people who've never attended Inbound—you should. I've spoken there for eight years straight and always try to bring new ideas. Each year, they keep giving me more opportunities—from main stage to workshops. I think you attended the 90-minute workshop, right? Hopefully it wasn't boring!Kerry Curran, RBMA (02:48.61)Yeah, it was excellent. I love this stuff, so I was taking lots of notes.Sangram Vajre (02:52.814)That was fun. The whole idea was: how can you build your entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide? Now, people might think, “There's no way—you need way more detail.” But it's not about making it complete; it's about making it clear.So everyone can be aligned. For example, in the operating system we've developed, we write research about it every Monday in a newsletter called GTM Monday, read by 175,000 people. The eight pillars are based on the most important questions. And Kerry, I don't know if you'll agree, but I think I've done a disservice for two decades by asking the wrong question.Like, I used to ask, “Where can we grow?”—which sounds smart but is actually foolish. The better question is, “Where can we grow the most, the fastest, the best, at the highest margin?” That's the true business perspective. So the operating system is built around these eight essential questions.If every executive team can align on these—not with certainty, but with clarity—then they can gain a clear understanding of what they're doing, where they're going, who their ICP is, what bets they're making, and which motions to pursue. I've done this over a thousand times with executive teams, helping them build their entire go-to-market strategy on a single slide. And it's like a lightbulb moment for them: “Okay, now I know what bets we're making and how my team is aligned.” It's a beautiful thing.Kerry Curran, RBMA (04:50.988)Yeah, because that's one of the hardest challenges across business strategy and growth: where to invest, where to lean in. So bring us through the questions and framework.Sangram Vajre (05:01.688)Yeah. So the first one is “Where can you grow the most?” The second one is really about what we call the Market Investment Map. I'll give you maybe three or four so people can get an idea. The Market Investment Map is especially useful for companies with more than one product or more than one segment. This is the least used but most valuable framework companies should be using.You might remember from the Inbound talk—I used HubSpot as an example since I was speaking at Inbound. It's interesting because at my last company, Terminus, we acquired five companies in eight years. So we had to learn this process. The Market Investment Map is about matching your best segments to the best products to create the highest-margin offering.If your entire business focuses only on pipeline and revenue—which sounds right—you're actually focused on the wrong things. You may have seen people post on LinkedIn saying, “I generated $10 million in pipeline,” and then a month later, they're laid off. Why? Because that pipeline didn't matter. It might have been general pipeline, but if you looked at pipeline within your ICP—the customers your company really needs to close, retain, and expand—it might have only been half a million. That's not enough to sustain growth or justify your role.So, understanding the business is critical. It's not just about understanding marketing skills like demand gen, content, or design. Those are table stakes. You need to understand the business of marketing—how the financials work, how to drive revenue, and how to say, “Yeah, we generated $10 million in pipeline, but only half a million was within ICP, so it won't convert or drive the margin we need.” That level of EQ and IQ is what leaders need today.Our go-to-market operating system goes deep into areas like this.Kerry Curran, RBMA (07:31.022)And I love the alignment with the ICP. I'm sure you'll get deeper into that. I also know you talk about getting rid of MQLs because the real focus should be on getting closer to the ICP—on who's actually going to drive revenue.Sangram Vajre (07:45.892)Yeah. John Miller, a good friend who co-founded Marketo, has been writing about this too. I was the CMO of Pardot. Then we both built ABM companies—I built Terminus; he built Engagio, which is now part of Demandbase. We've been evangelizing the idea of efficient marketing machines for the last two decades.We're coming full circle now. That approach made sense in the “growth at all costs” era. But in this “efficient growth” era, everything can be measured. The dark funnel is real. AI can now accelerate your team's output and throughput. So we have to go back to first principles—what do your customers really want?I was in a discussion yesterday with executives and middle managers, and the topic of AI came up. Some were worried it would take their jobs. And I said, “Yes, it absolutely will—and it should.” I gave the example I wrote about recently: imagine you were the best horseman, with saddles, barns, and a generational business built around horses. Then Henry Ford comes along with four wheels. You just lost your job—not because you were bad, but because you got infatuated with the horse, not with your customer's need to get from point A to point B.Horses did that—it was better than walking. But then came cars, trains, airplanes. Business evolves. If you focus on your customers' needs—better, faster, cheaper—you'll always be excited about innovation rather than afraid of it. So yes, AI will replace anyone who stays on their horse. If you're riding the demand gen horse or relying only on content creation, a lot is going to change. Get off the horse, refocus on customer needs, and figure out how to move your business forward.Kerry Curran, RBMA (10:21.708)Yeah. So talk a bit about honing in on the ICP. I know in one of the sessions you asked, “Who's your target audience?” And of course, there was one guy in the front row who said, “Everyone,” and we all laughed. But I still hear that all the time. Talk about how important it is, to your point, to know your customer and get obsessed with what they need.Sangram Vajre (10:45.56)Yeah. So the first pillar of the go-to-market operating system is called TRM, or Total Relevant Market. We introduced that in the book MOVE for the first time. It's a departure from TAM—Total Addressable Market—which is what that guy in the front row was referring to during that session. It was epic, and I think he was a sales leader, so it was even funnier in a room full of marketers.But it's true—and real. He was being honest, and I appreciated that. The reality is, we've all been conditioned to focus on more and more—bigger and bigger markets. That makes sense if you have unlimited funds and can raise money. It makes sense if the market is huge and you're just trying to get in and have more people doing outbound.As a matter of fact, a few weeks ago, we did a session where someone said something profound that I'll never forget. He said, “The whole SDR function is a feature bug in the VC model.” That was fascinating—because the whole SDR model was built to get as many leads as possible, assign 22-year-olds to make cold calls, and push them to AEs.We built this because it worked on a spreadsheet. If we generate 1,000 leads, we need 50 callers to convert them. It's math. But nobody really tried to improve it because we had the money. Now we're in a different world. We have clients doing $10–15 million in revenue with five-person teams automating so much.People don't read as many automated emails. My phone filters out robocalls, so I never pick up unless it's someone I know. Non-personalized emails go into a folder I never open. Yet people keep sending thousands of them, thinking it works.For example, I send our GTM Monday newsletter via Substack. It's free for readers, and it's free for me to send—even to 175,000 people. Meanwhile, marketers spend thousands every time they email their list using legacy tools. Why? Because these people haven't opted in to be part of the journey the way Substack subscribers have.The market has changed. Buying big marketing automation tools for $100,000 is going to change drastically. Fractional leaders and agencies will thrive because what CEOs really need is people like you—and frameworks like a go-to-market operating system—to guide them. You and I have the gray hair and battle scars to prove it. What matters now is using a modern framework, implementing it, and measuring outcomes differently.Kerry Curran, RBMA (14:08.11)Yeah, you bring up such a valid point. In so many of my conversations, I see the same thing. It's been a sales-led growth strategy for years. Investments went to sales—more BDRs, more cold emails, more tech stack partners.Even as I was starting my consultancy, I'd talk to partners or prospects who'd say, “Well, we just hired more salespeople. We want to see how that goes.” But to your point, without the foundational framework—without targeting the right audience—you're just spinning your wheels on volume.Sangram Vajre (15:06.318)Exactly. One area we emphasize in our go-to-market operating system is differentiation. Everyone's doing the same thing. Let me give you an example. Last week, I looked at a startup's email tool that reads your emails and drafts responses automatically. Super interesting. I use Superhuman for email.Two days later, Superhuman sent an email saying they'd launched the exact same feature. So this startup spent time and money building a feature, and Superhuman—already with a huge user base—replicated and launched it instantly. That startup is out of business.With AI, product development is lightning fast. So product is no longer your differentiator. Your differentiation now is how you tell your story, how quickly you grab attention, how well you build and maintain a community. That becomes your moat. Those first principles matter more than ever. Product is just table stakes now.Kerry Curran, RBMA (16:33.878)Right. And connecting that to your marketing strategy, your communication, your messaging—it also sets up your sales team to close faster. By the time a prospect talks to a rep, your marketing has already educated them on your differentiation. So talk more about the stages and what companies need to keep in mind when applying your go-to-market framework.Sangram Vajre (17:07.482)One of the things we mention in the book—and go really deep into in our operating system—is this 3P format: Problem-Market Fit, Product-Market Fit, and Platform-Market Fit. We believe these are the three core stages of a business. I experienced them firsthand at Pardot, Salesforce, and Terminus through multiple acquisitions.If you remember, I always talk about the “squiggly line,” because no company grows up and to the right in a straight line. If you look at daily, weekly, or monthly insights, there are dips—just like a stock market chart. So the squiggly line shows you can go from Problem to Product, but you'll experience a dip. That's normal and natural. Same thing when you go from Product to Platform—you hit a dip. Those dips are what we call the “valleys of death.”Some companies overcome those valleys and cross the chasm, and others don't. Why? Because at those points, they discover they can market and sell, but they can't deliver. Or maybe they can deliver, but they can't renew. Or maybe they can renew but not expand. Each gap becomes a value to fix in the system.And it's hard. I've gone from $5 million to $10 million to $15 million, all the way to $100 million in revenue—and every 5 to 10 million increment brings a new set of challenges. You think you've got it figured out, and then you don't—because everything else has to change with scale.I'll never forget one company I was on the board of—unfortunately, it didn't make it. The CEO was upset because they were doing $20 million in revenue but didn't get the valuation they wanted. Meanwhile, a competitor doing only $5 million in revenue in the same space got a $500 million valuation. Why? Because the $20M company was doing tons of customization—still stuck in Problem-Market Fit. The $5M company had reached Product-Market Fit and was far more efficient. Their operational costs were lower, and their NRR was over 120%.If you've read some of my research, you know I'm all in on NRR—Net Revenue Retention—as the #1 metric. If you get NRR above 120%, you'll double your revenue in 3.8 years without adding a single new customer. That's what executives should focus on.That's why we say the CEO owns go-to-market. All our research shows that if the CEO doesn't own it, you'll have a really hard time scaling.Kerry Curran, RBMA (20:23.992)That makes so much sense, because everything you're talking about—while it includes marketing functions—is really business strategy. It needs to be driven top-down. It has to be the North Star the whole company is paddling toward.I've been in organizations where that's not the case. And as you said, leadership has to have the knowledge and strategic awareness to navigate those pivots—those valleys of death. So talk about how hard it is to bring new frameworks into an organization and the change management that comes with that. As you evangelize the idea that the CEO owns GTM, what's resonating most with them?Sangram Vajre (21:26.456)Great question. First of all, CEOs who get it—they love it. The people who struggle most are actually CMOs and CROs because they feel like they should be the ones owning go-to-market. And while their input is critical, they can't own it entirely.In all our advisory work, Kerry, we mandate two things:The CEO must be in the room. We won't do an engagement without that. The executive team must be involved. We don't do one-on-one coaching—because transformation happens in teams.People often get it wrong. They think, “We need better ICP targeting, so that's marketing's job.” Or, “We need pipeline acceleration—let sales figure that out.” Or, “We have a retention issue—fire the CS team.” No. The problem isn't a department issue—it's a process and team issue.The CEO is the most incentivized person to bring clarity, alignment, and trust—the three pillars of our GTM operating system. They're the ones sitting in all the one-on-one meetings, burning out from the lack of alignment. The challenge is most CEOs don't know what it means to own GTM. It feels overwhelming.So we help them reframe that. Owning doesn't mean running GTM. It means orchestrating clarity, alignment, and trust. Every meeting they lead should advance one of those. That's the job. When the ICP is agreed upon, marketing should be excited to generate leads for it. Sales should be eager to follow up. CS should be relieved they're not getting misaligned customers. That's leadership. And there's no one more suited—or incentivized—to lead that than the CEO.Kerry Curran, RBMA (24:08.11)Absolutely. And the CFO plays a key role too—holding the purse strings, understanding where the investments should go.Sangram Vajre (24:20.622)Yes. In fact, in the book and in our research, we emphasize the importance of RevOps—especially once a company reaches Product-Market Fit and moves toward Platform-Market Fit.If you're operating across multiple products, segments, geographies, or using multiple GTM motions, the RevOps leader—who often reports to the CFO or CEO—becomes critical. I'd say they're the second most important person in the company from a strategy standpoint.Why? Because they're the only ones who can look at the whole picture and say, “We don't need to spend more on marketing; we need to fix the sales process.” A marketing leader won't say that. A sales leader won't say that. You need someone who can objectively assess where the real bottleneck is.Kerry Curran, RBMA (25:17.836)Yeah, that definitely makes so much sense. Are there other areas—maybe below the executive team—that help educate the company from a change management perspective to gain buy-in? Or is it really a company-wide change?Sangram Vajre (25:33.742)Yeah, you mentioned ABM earlier. Having written a few books on ABM and building Terminus, we've seen thousands of companies go through transformation. We now have over 70,000 students who've gone through our courses. I love getting feedback.What's interesting is that ABM has been great for aligning sales and marketing—but it hasn't transformed the company. Go-to-market is not a marketing or sales strategy. It's a business strategy. It has to bring in CS, product, finance—everyone.Where companies often fail is by looking at go-to-market too narrowly—like it's just a product launch or a sales campaign. That's way too myopic. Those companies burn a lot of cash.At the layer below the executive team, it gets harder because GTM is fundamentally a leadership-driven initiative. An SDR, AE, or director of marketing typically doesn't have the incentive—or business context—to drive GTM change. But they should get familiar with it.That's why we created the GTM Operating System certification. Hundreds of professionals have gone through it—including you! And now people are bringing those frameworks into leadership meetings.They'll say, “Hey, let's pull up the 15 GTM problems and see where we're stuck.” Or, “Let's revisit the 3 Ps—where are we today?” Or use one of the assessments. It's pretty cool to see it in action.Kerry Curran, RBMA (27:35.758)Yeah, and it's extremely valuable. I love that it's a tool that helps drive company-wide buy-in and educates the people responsible for the actions. So you've shared so many great frameworks and recommendations. For those listening, what's the first step to get started? What would you recommend to someone who's thinking, “Okay, I love all of this—I need to start shifting my organization”?Sangram Vajre (28:09.082)First, you have to really understand the definition of go-to-market. It's a transformational process—not a one-and-done. It's not something you define at an offsite and then forget. It's not owned by pirates. It's iterative. It happens every day.Second, the CEO has to be fully bought in. If they don't own it, GTM will run them. If you're a CEO and you feel overwhelmed, that's usually why—you're running go-to-market, not owning it.Third, business transformation happens in teams. If you try to build a GTM strategy in a silo—as a marketer, for example—it will fail. The best strategies never see the light of day because the team isn't behind them. In GTM, alignment matters more than being right.Kerry Curran, RBMA (29:27.982)Excellent. I love this so much. Thank you! How can people find you and learn more about the GTM Partners certification and your book?Sangram Vajre (29:37.476)You can go to gtmpartners.com to get the certification. Thousands of people are going through it, and we're constantly adding new content. We're about to launch Go-To-Market University to add even more courses.We also created the MOVE Book Companion, because we're actually selling more books now than when it first came out three years ago—which is crazy!Then there's GTM Monday, our research newsletter that 175,000 people read every week. Our goal is to keep building new frameworks and sharing what's possible. Things are changing so fast—AI, GTM tech, everything. But first principles still apply. That's why frameworks matter more than ever.You can't just ask ChatGPT to “give me a go-to-market strategy” and expect it to work. It might give you something beautifully written, but it won't help you make money. You need frameworks, team alignment, and process discipline.And I post about this every day on LinkedIn—so follow me there too!Kerry Curran, RBMA (30:54.988)Excellent. Well, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, and I highly recommend the book and the certification to everyone. We'll include all the links in the show notes.Thank you, Sangram, for joining us today!Sangram Vajre (31:09.284)Kerry, you're a fantastic host. Thank you for having me.Kerry Curran, RBMA (31:11.854)Thank you very much.Thanks for tuning in to Revenue Boost: A Marketing Podcast. I hope today's conversation sparked some new ideas and challenged the way you think about how your organization approaches go-to-market and revenue growth strategy. If you're serious about turning marketing into a true revenue driver, this is just the beginning. We've got more insightful conversations, expert guests, and actionable strategies coming your way—so search for us in your favorite podcast directory and hit subscribe.And hey, if this episode brought you value, please share it with a colleague or leave a quick review. It helps more revenue-minded leaders like you find our show. Until next time, I'm Kerry Curran—helping you connect marketing to growth, one episode at a time. See you soon.

In this short segment of the Revenue Builders Podcast, we revisit the discussion with Matt Nolan, CRO of Redwood Software, to discuss what it really takes to scale a revenue organization beyond the $200M mark. Matt shares what he's learned stepping into the CRO role—shifting from deal-maker to system-builder, navigating cultural integration post-acquisition, managing board dynamics, and building trust through authentic leadership. If you're a sales leader, aspiring CRO, or operating in a private equity-backed company, this candid conversation is loaded with actionable insights.KEY TAKEAWAYS[00:00:30] The shift from deal involvement to systems thinking as a CRO[00:01:40] Navigating complexity: PLG, SLG, and assisted motions in one org[00:02:15] Tackling organizational friction points no one else can move[00:03:00] Building credibility with a board that has a different go-to-market background[00:03:45] The challenge of balancing learning vs. initiating change as a new leader[00:05:00] Why being authentically yourself is the best leadership strategy[00:06:15] How to build trust without gutting legacy teams[00:06:45] Culture wins: no account conflicts, cross-region harmony, and shared mission[00:07:15] Going from “best kept secret” to magic quadrant leaderQUOTES[00:01:45] “My job is to go turn all the ‘what's not working' into ‘what's working.'”[00:02:10] “There are some rocks in the business that only the CRO can move."[00:03:05] “You've got to earn trust to make big moves—especially when your vision differs from the board's.”[00:05:00] “The only way to do it is to be yourself—even if that means being more open than most."[00:06:50] “I'm proud of a very corny thing: no account conflict has ever escalated to me in three years.[00:07:00] “We were the best kept secret in software—now we're in the magic quadrant.”Listen to the full conversation through the link below:https://revenue-builders.simplecast.com/episodes/navigating-the-cro-role-while-building-a-great-culture-with-matt-nolanEnjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox:https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0Check out John McMahon's book here:Amazon Link: https://a.co/d/1K7DDCCheck out Force Management's Ascender platform here: https://my.ascender.co/Ascender/Force Management is hiring for a Sales Director. Apply here: https://hubs.li/Q02Zb8WG0Read Force Management's eBook: https://www.forcemanagement.com/roi-of-sales-messaging

Leave your commentWhat if your next sales hire wasn't human?In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Isabella Bedoya, Co-CEO of Infinite AI, shares how sales teams are evolving by bringing AI “employees” into the mix. We go beyond the hype to explore practical use cases, ethical concerns, and the new skills sales pros must master to stay competitive in this AI-enabled landscape.Whether you're curious, cautious, or already experimenting with AI, this episode will help you think more strategically about the future of your sales team.1. AI Employees Are Not Just Chatbots Isabella defines AI employees as task-performing agents embedded in workflows, not just tools you prompt, but systems that take action automatically across SMS, email, calls, and CRM. Think of them as digital team members handling your follow-ups, reactivations, and more.2. Sales Reps Won't Be Replaced, But They Will Be Repositioned AI handles the mundane and repetitive. Human reps move into strategist roles managing AI workflows, handling complex objections, and owning the emotional intelligence required to close.3. Scaling Outreach Without Scaling Headcount Instead of hiring more SDRs or BDRs, companies are using AI to nurture leads, qualify opportunities, and schedule demos. It's not theory, it's happening now, and Isabella walks us through real-world use cases like post-trade-show follow-ups and digital sales assistants.4. Trust Isn't Lost, It's Rebuilt Through Value AI can build trust when it delivers consistently valuable, fast responses. If it's trained well, it may outperform junior reps. Still, Isabella emphasizes that closing deals and earning emotional buy-in remains a human function for now.5. New Role of the Seller: Coach, Manager, Strategist Sales pros will soon manage a team of AI agents, much like GMs in “Moneyball.” The skills to build prompts, tweak workflows, and analyze data will be key differentiators. Coaching AI and being coached by it will become a real scenario in sales teams.The rise of AI employees in sales isn't about replacing talent, it's about redeploying it. As Isabella says, the reps who win will be the ones who embrace these tools, build systems, and create more space for the kind of selling only humans can do.Sales isn't going away. It's getting smarter. Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away! This Show is sponsored by Fist BumpYour prospecting partner to authentically fill your pipeline with ideal customers. Check out our Live Show Events here: Mastering Modern Selling Live ShowSubscribe to our Newsletter: Mastering Modern Selling Newsletter

In this Starr-Led solo episode of Revenue Rehab, Brandi Starr brings a But How perspective to the widespread practice of handing qualified leads from marketing to SDRs and BDRs. Challenging the assumption that sales pressure is the next logical step, Brandi argues that most buyers are actually looking for guidance—not a hard sell—during the critical middle of the funnel. She introduces the vital, often-overlooked role of Marketing Development Reps (MDRs) and offers a blueprint for structuring this function to accelerate revenue. CMOs and CROs will find a compelling case for rethinking funnel strategy to close the costly gap between marketing and sales.  Episode Type: Starr-Led   Brandi Starr cuts through industry noise with bold, unfiltered insights on revenue growth. These solo episodes challenge outdated advice, debunk myths, and break down industry reports to reveal what really drives results. Expect sharp commentary, data-backed analysis, and actionable strategies to refine your marketing and sales approach.  Bullet Points of Key Topics + Chapter Markers:  Topic #1: Middle of the Funnel Is the New Battleground [03:31]  Brandi spotlights a massive structural gap in the revenue funnel, arguing that 95% of the buying journey now happens before a buyer ever engages with sales. She insists that traditional automation and nurture flows can only take buyers so far—leaving them stuck, overwhelmed, and underserved. Her message is clear: CMOs and CROs must prioritize MoFu strategies and stop letting this “messy middle” bleed potential revenue.  Topic #2: Marketing Development Reps (MDRs) are Essential, Not Optional [05:43]  Brandi challenges the notion that sales development roles (SDRs/BDRs) can handle the middle-funnel gap, claiming they are “chasing meetings and demos” rather than nurturing. She makes a bold case for MDRs—empathetic, insight-driven professionals who guide engaged but not-yet-ready buyers—arguing that organizations without them are leaving high-value leads to stall. Her advice: pilot or reassign resources now, and build MDR compensation and measurement around MoFu KPIs rather than pipeline quotas.  Topic #3: Rethink Buying Committee Support and Buyer Experience [14:54]  Brandi exposes how complex sales cycles with large committees need a strategic MoFu resource to guide and enable all stakeholders—not just the lead contact. She advocates for a shift from automation-focused nurturing to human-led support that's “not pushy, not looking for a quota”—arguing that this trust-driven approach becomes a competitive differentiator. Her test: if your deals are complex and require consultative education, then building this role is overdue.   Why Should Revenue Leaders Stop Ignoring This Problem Right Now?  Because you're wasting millions generating leads only to watch 60% vanish into a black hole between marketing and sales. Brandi makes it clear: this isn't a lead quality issue—it's a structural gap where overwhelmed buyers stall out, SDRs get misused, and revenue opportunities die in the messy middle. Ignoring it means you're losing deals not due to weak campaigns, but because nobody is actively guiding buyers through their biggest hurdles before they're ready to talk to sales.  What's the First Action Someone Should Take to Apply This Insight Today?  Brandi says: shift your mindset to focus on the middle of the funnel—stop obsessing over top-of-funnel leads or bottom-of-funnel closes, and interrogate what your buyers actually need between those points so you can design support that accelerates their internal decision process. If you're not prioritizing MoFu strategy, that's your urgency—start now.  Takeaway  Brandi challenges revenue leaders to fundamentally rethink the buying journey, pointing out that most of the action—and friction—now happens in the messy middle of the funnel, not at the top or bottom. She urges leaders to shift their mindset away from traditional sales and marketing silos, and start prioritizing buyer enablement and support during that critical middle stage. The key move? Stop neglecting the middle of the funnel—design roles, strategies, and resources specifically to guide buyers through this phase, ensuring you become their go-to partner, not just another vendor pushing a quota.  Subscribe, listen, and rate/review Revenue Rehab Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts , Amazon Music, or iHeart Radio and find more episodes on our website RevenueRehab.live  

In this episode of the Revenue Builders Podcast, hosts John McMahon and John Kaplan are joined by John Rowell, co-founder of Pinned Golf, about his transition from a successful career in enterprise sales to entrepreneurship. Rowell shares his invaluable experiences from working at EMC Dell Technologies and Lacework, highlighting the importance of process and preparation. He discusses how these skills translated into building a thriving startup, explains the significance of defining an ideal customer profile, and offers insights into the challenges and rewards of making the leap to start his own company. The episode also delves into Pinned Golf's innovative products, the dynamics of working with friends, and strategies for effective sales and management in both B2B and B2C environments.ADDITIONAL RESOURCESVisit Pinned Golf! Check out their products here: https://pinnedgolf.com/Connect with John Rowell:https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnerowell/Download the CRO Strategy Checklist: https://hubs.li/Q03f8LmX0Read Force Management's Guide to Increasing Company Valuation: https://hubs.li/Q038n0jT0Enjoying the podcast? Sign up to receive new episodes straight to your inbox: https://hubs.li/Q02R10xN0HERE ARE SOME KEY SECTIONS TO CHECK OUT[00:01:39] John Rowell's Career Journey at EMC and Lacework[00:05:21] Advice for BDRs and SDRs: Building Confidence and Authenticity[00:07:37] The Importance of Pre-Call Preparation[00:15:01] Process Equals Speed: Lessons from Lacework[00:19:23] Transitioning to Entrepreneurship: Founding Pinned Golf[00:25:19] Developing and Marketing Pinned Golf Products[00:31:36] The Caddy: Revolutionizing Golf Technology[00:34:17] Pre-Order and Market Gap[00:35:46] Finding the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)[00:38:26] Distribution Strategies[00:41:14] Entrepreneurial Journey and Challenges[00:46:56] Manufacturing and Role Segregation[00:48:30] Partnership Dynamics and Decision Making[00:57:50] Sales and Growth Mindset[01:04:53] Product Customization and Corporate GiftsHIGHLIGHT QUOTES"Process equals speed.""If you're not prepared, you'll figure it out after the call, but then it's too late.""The best way, the best connection you can make is to give that person space to be able to articulate what their challenges or problems are.""If you can get the channel really working for you and selling on your behalf, you can touch so many more people.""You can have three guys in a boat, but if only one's rowing, it's definitely not gonna work."

After 15 years in Technology and Sales (including 15 years at Dell Computers), William Hegmann decided to bring his technological expertise and sales experience to the Real Estate world. Since 2016, William has trained over 73,000 real estate agents across the world (including the US, Canada, New Zealand, Mexico, Australia and South Africa) to generate leads using social media. To date, the Social Agent program has helped agents and lenders generate approximately 22 Million leads and facilitated over $400 million in agent to agent referral business. On top of that, William co-founded Realty Solutions, a residential real estate brokerage based out of Austin, TX, Social Agent University, a lead generation, management, and follow-up service that specializes in helping real estate brokerages leverage lead generation for their agents and now Social Agent Content Hub! In his spare time, William loves spending time with his girls, collecting shoes, and enjoying all the wonderful things life has to offer. What You Will Learn: Who is William Hegmann? How did William Hegmann transition from a successful career at Dell to founding his own company, The Social Agent? What challenges did William face during his initial years in real estate? How did William's experiences with lead generation companies influence his approach to marketing? What are the first three steps a new agent or business owner should take to establish an online presence? How important is social media for agents, and what strategies should they implement? How does William utilize various social media platforms differently based on the industry or target audience? What lessons has William learned from his entrepreneurial journey, including his successes and failures? How does William's current business model support agents in focusing on sales rather than lead generation? What role do business development representatives (BDRs) play in William's real estate team? How can interested individuals reach out to William for his services or training? In what ways has William expanded his client base internationally? What is William's philosophy on engaging new agents versus veteran agents in the real estate industry? How does William recommend using social media for marketing without being overly promotional? What are the benefits of using organic content alongside paid advertising in social media marketing? William shares how everyone can contact him. Additional Resources from William Hegmann: Website: https://www.williamhegmann.com/ Email: william@williamhegmann.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-hegmann-2168118/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thesocialagentusa TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@williamhegmann Attention Investors and Agents Are you looking to grow your business? Need to connect with aggressive like-minded people like yourself? We have all the right tools, knowledge, and coaching to positively effect your bottom line. Visit:http://globalinvestoragent.com/join-gia-team to see what we can offer and to schedule your FREE consultation! Our NEW book is out...order yours NOW! Global Investor Agent: How Do You Thrive Not Just Survive in a Market Shift? Get your copy here: https://amzn.to/3SV0khX HEY! You should be in class this coming Monday (MNL). It's Free and packed with actions you should take now! Here's the link to register: https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_sNMjT-5DTIakCFO2ronDCg

In this episode of The Long Game Podcast, Alex Birkett interviews Alice Wyatt, a B2B fintech marketing leader with experience at Codat, Bloomreach, and Adyen. Alice shares how her personal journey of building community and maintaining sanity in a fast-paced city like New York connects with her marketing philosophy: agile, people-first, and impact-driven. The conversation explores person-based marketing (PBM), the limits of MQLs, aligning sales and marketing teams, and embracing adaptability in an AI-disrupted world. Alice also reflects on how her approach to building community mirrors how great marketing is done: with empathy, boldness, and a willingness to challenge the status quo.Key TakeawaysFrom ABM to PBM: Moving beyond account-based strategies to person-based marketing creates deeper personalization and stronger alignment with buying behavior.MQLs Are Outdated: Relying on MQLs limits alignment; marketing and sales need shared, outcome-driven goals instead.Adaptability Over Tactics: Successful marketers focus on business outcomes and adapt tactics as priorities shift—agility trumps specialization.AI Is Redefining Roles: AI is reshaping marketing roles, requiring teams to adopt tools while maintaining strategic thinking and creativity.Community as a Superpower: Whether in marketing or life, building and contributing to genuine communities creates long-term value.Hire for Resilience and Curiosity: Non-traditional backgrounds (e.g., comedy, hospitality) often produce standout BDRs with adaptability and EQ.Thought Leadership ≠ Press Releases: Modern thought leadership means leading with perspective, not parroting trends or relying on legacy PR tactics.Show LinksVisit Alice's Forbes Council for Marketing ExpertsConnect with Alice Wyatt on LinkedInConnect with Alex Birkett on LinkedIn and TwitterConnect with Omniscient Digital on LinkedIn or TwitterPast guests on The Long Game podcast include: Morgan Brown (Shopify), Ryan Law (Animalz), Dan Shure (Evolving SEO), Kaleigh Moore (freelancer), Eric Siu (Clickflow), Peep Laja (CXL), Chelsea Castle (Chili Piper), Tracey Wallace (Klaviyo), Tim Soulo (Ahrefs), Ryan McReady (Reforge), and many more.Some interviews you might enjoy and learn from:Actionable Tips and Secrets to SEO Strategy with Dan Shure (Evolving SEO)Building Competitive Marketing Content with Sam Chapman (Aprimo)How to Build the Right Data Workflow with Blake Burch (Shipyard)Data-Driven Thought Leadership with Alicia Johnston (Sprout Social)Purpose-Driven Leadership & Building a Content Team with Ty Magnin (UiPath)Also, check out our Kitchen Side series where we take you behind the scenes to see how the sausage is made at our agency:Blue Ocean vs Red Ocean SEOShould You Hire Writers or Subject Matter Experts?How Do Growth and Content Overlap?Connect with Omniscient Digital on social:Twitter: @beomniscientLinkedin: Be OmniscientListen to more episodes of The Long Game podcast here: https://beomniscient.com/podcast/

This episode features an interview with Niloy Sanyal, CMO at LeanTaaS, a growth-stage company that creates software solutions combining lean principles, predictive and prescriptive analytics, and machine learning to transform hospital and infusion center operations.In this conversation, Niloy and Ian debate the merits of last touch versus multitouch attribution models. They also dive into the potential of AI SDRs and the benefits of ungating the content on your website. Key Takeaways:While reporting last touch attribution may help CMOs establish credibility, there are benefits to thinking in terms of multitouch and how to best determine the next best touch. B2B still has a way to go to fully leverage the capacity of our current LLMs, not to mention the new versions coming out. There is immense opportunity in AI SDRs and BDRs. If you may the CEO fill out a form on your website, you've lost them. Ungating content allows high level prospects to consume the information they need. Quote: I am absolutely bullish on the impact of generative AI in the tactic of, to start with BDR and AE sales motions as part of our broader ABM execution. But very soon our comms execution, and every part of the marketing execution. But right now, early days, so I don't want to oversell it. But, the promise of what this can do without any improvement on the LLM. Like we were having this debate last night with another thought leader and I don't need chat GPT 5 to come out. I think 4. 0 or 4 is good enough and it's actually great. We just haven't caught up in a B2B environment to take advantage of it. And what I'm seeing from our early experiments, we've been at it now for three, four months, is absolutely astounding in what it can do. It's not going to replace BDRs. Let's be clear, you're in the Bay Area. If you  drive from, you know, Peninsula to the city, I almost feel half the billboards these days are on like AI-automated SDR, BDR type of a thing. Not in my space. It's not going to automate that any, replace rather, but it can supercharge. Those individuals and it can supercharge. So I'm very excited about where we are. Episode Timestamps: *(04:00) The Trust Tree: Last Touch Versus Multi-Touch*(30:07) The Playbook: The Potential of Gen AI SDRs and BDRs*(44:05) Quick Hits: Niloy's Quick HitsSponsor:Pipeline Visionaries is brought to you by Qualified.com. Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with PipelineAI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, intent data, and Piper, your AI SDR. Visit Qualified.com to learn more.Links:Connect with Ian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianfaison/Connect with Niloy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/niloysanyal/Learn more about LeanTaaS: https://www.linkedin.com/company/leantaas/Learn more about Caspian Studios: https://caspianstudios.com/