Podcasts about bryan you

On this week's show, Adam Leventhal posed questions from Hacker News (mostly) to Oxide founders Bryan Cantrill and Steve Tuck. Stick around until the end to hear about the hardest parts of building Oxide--great, surprising answers from both Bryan and Steve.They were also joined by Steve Klabnik.Questions for Steve and Bryan:[@6:38] Q:Congrats to the team, but after hearing about Oxide for literal years since the beginning of the company and repeatedly reading different iterations of their landing page, I still don't know what their product actually is. It's a hypervisor host? Maybe? So I can host VMs on it? And a network switch? So I can....switch stuff? (*)A:Steve: A rack-scale computer; "A product that allows the rest of the market that runs on-premises IT access to cloud computing."Bryan: agrees[@8:46] Q:It's like an on prem AWS for devs. I don't understand the use case but the hardware is cool. (*)I didn't understand the business opportunity of Oxide at all. Didn't make sense to me.However if they're aiming at the companies parachuting out of the cloud back to data centers and on prem then it makes a lot of sense.It's possible that the price comparison is not with comparable computing devices, but simply with the 9 cents per gigabyte egress fee from major clouds. (*)A:Bryan: "Elastic infrastructure is great and shouldn't be cloistered to the public cloud"; Good reasons to run on-prem: compliance, security, risk management, latency, economics; "Once you get to a certain size, it really makes sense to own"Steve: As more things move onto the internet, need for on-prem is going to grow; you should have the freedom to own[@13:31] Q:Somebody help me understand the business value. All the tech is cool but I don't get the business model, it seems deeply impractical. You buy your own servers instead of renting, which is what most people are doing now. They argue there's a case for this, but it seems like a shrinking market. Everything has gone cloud. Even if there are lots of people who want to leave the cloud, all their data is there. That's how they get you -- it costs nothing to bring data in and a lot to transfer it out. So high cost to switch. AWS and others provide tons of other services in their clouds, which if you depend on you'll have to build out on top of Oxide. So even higher cost to switch. Even though you bought your own servers, you still have to run everything inside VMs, which introduce the sort of issues you would hope to avoid by buying your own servers! Why is this? Because they're building everything on Illumos (Solaris) which is for all practical purposes is dead outside Oxide and delivering questionable value here. Based on blogs/twitter/mastodon they have put a lot of effort into perfecting these weird EE side quests, but they're not making real new hardware (no new CPU, no new fabric, etc). I am skeptical any customers will notice or care and would have not noticed had they used off the shelf hardware/power setups. So you have to be this ultra-bizarre customer, somebody who wants their own servers, but doesn't mind VMs, doesn't need to migrate out of the cloud but wants this instead of whatever hardware they manage themselves now, who will buy a rack at a time, who doesn't need any custom hardware, and is willing to put up with whatever off-the-beaten path difficulties are going to occur because of the custom stuff they've done that's AFAICT is very low value for the customer. Who is this? Even the poster child for needing on prem, the CIA is on AWS now.I don't get it, it just seems like a bunch of geeks playing with VC money?(*)A:Bryan: "EE side quests" rant; you can't build robust, elastic infrastructure on commodity hardware at scale; "The minimum viable product is really, really big"; Example: monitoring fan power draw, tweaking reference desgins doesn't cut it Example: eliminating redundant AC power suppliesSteve: "Feels like I'm dealing with my divorced parents" post[@32:24] Q (Chat):It would be nice to see what this thing is like before having to write a big checkSteve: We are striving to have lab infrastructure available for test drives[@32:56] Q (Chat):I want to know about shipping insurance, logistics, who does the install, ...Bryan: "Next week we'll be joined by the operations team" we want to have an indepth conversation about those topics[@34:40] Q:Seems like Oxide is aiming to be the Apple of the enterprise hardware (which isn't too surprising given the background of the people involved - Sun used to be something like that as were other fully-integrated providers, though granted that Sun didn't write Unix from scratch). Almost like coming to a full circle from the days where the hardware and the software was all done in an integrated fashion before Linux turned-up and started to run on your toaster. (*)A:Bryan: We find things to emulate in both Apple and Sun, e.g., integrated hard- and software; AS/400Steve: "It's not hardware and software together for integration sake", it's required to deliver what the customer wants; "You can't control that experience when you only do half the equation"[@42:38] Q:I truly and honestly hope you succeed. I know for certain that the market for on-prem will remain large for certain sectors for the forseeable future. However. The kind of customer who spends this type of money can be conservative. They already have to go with on an unknown vendor, and rely on unknown hardware. Then they end up with a hypervisor virtually no one else in the same market segment uses.Would you say that KVM or ESXi would be an easier or harder sell here?Innovation budget can be a useful concept. And I'm afraid it's being stretched a lot. (*)A:Bryan: We can deliver more value with our own hypervisor; we've had a lot of experience in that domain from Joyent. There are a lot of reasons that VMware et al. are not popular with their own customers; Intel vs. AMDSteve: "We think it's super important that we're very transparent with what we're building"[@56:05] Q:what is the interface I get when I turn this $$$ computer on? What is the zero to first value when I buy this hardware? (*)A:Steve: "You roll the rack in, you have to give it power, and you have give it networking [...] and you are then off on starting the software experience"; Large pool of infrastructure reosources for customers/devs/SREs/... in a day or less; Similar experience to public cloud providers[@01:02:06] Q:One of my concerns when buying a complete solution like an iPhone (or an Oxide rack

Standout Quotes: “You go through the industry, you do lots of different things and you learn what you're good at and what you're not good at” - [Bryan] “You really have to focus in and figure out where you're at in the process when you're ready to close” - [Bryan] “In 2005 we finished up, I decided I know everything about international real estate. I'm going to teach everybody else in the world” – [Bryan] “I think that we will see a lot of asset price inflation over the next few years.” – [Kent] “The last 10 years, I learned a tremendous amount about what individual owners and developers need” – [Bryan] “People are paying record prices for buildings. And so there's definitely a mismatch between where we are specifically today and where the market is” – [Bryan] Key Takeaways: Kent describes himself in one word as "Intentional". I'm a Midwestern guy. I grew up in Kansas City, Missouri, and I went to college in Arizona. I worked for a developer that did strip shopping center company called Leo Eisenberg. After college I went to work for them and moved to Los Angeles and started working on properties. I started something called IRETO, the International Real Estate Trade Organization. And we tried to teach people in the US how to buy properties in China, in Japan. By 2008, there was a great financial crisis. We went from having thousands of people buying stuff from us and getting information from us to nobody really caring about international real estate. So that was my sort of third cycle of my life. And that was probably one of the tougher ones. I worked on a skilled nursing facility where the guy had owned some that never developed his own properties. Over my whole career, part of my career was helping big companies figure out how to do their capital and how to close their deals and how to restructure their properties. This half has really been more helping private individuals do $5 million loans, $10 million loans. I own 300 units today and I want to own 3000 units tomorrow. And we do is we provide the capital to allow them to grow from that 300 to 3000 units. We're based in Los Angeles and we have seven to nine deals right now that are construction projects in Boise, Idaho for multi-family. Episode Timeline: [02:13] I am super excited about our guest Bryan Shaffer. [04:51] Bryan describes himself as Focused. [06:00] Bryan shares his backstory. [06:38] Bryan talks about when he learned that real estate is a crisis driven industry. [09:34] In the end of 2010, 2011, Bryan joined George Smith Partners. [18:13] Do you think it's a reflection of the pandemic and people wanting to get to a less crowded area? [20:31] What is it structured finance mean or capital markets, or talk about some of that terminology a little bit and explain some of that more in a layman's term, if you would. [23:33] what's interesting is you set a 30% return and unlike where are you finding 30% return today? Tell me about one of those deals. [25:43] So do you think that there is the return, per all perspective of what the cap rate is? [28:54] You sometimes have to make choices and decisions. And how do you go about what's your process for that? [31:20] Bryan talks about which asset class makes sense. [37:46] How to contact Bryan Website: www.gspartners.com

No one is exempted from exposure to environmental pollutants. While this may sound worrying, there are steps, backed with scientific and empirical evidence, to rid our bodies of these harmful pollutants. However, there is still a lot of misinformation about detoxification that we need to uncover. In this episode, Dr Bryan Walsh discusses the common perception about detoxification and explains the actual science behind it. He talks about the different phases of detoxification and its complexity. Dr Walsh also tackles the importance of excretion as a widely ignored aspect of detoxification in diets and weight loss programs. Detoxification may seem challenging to start, but it begins with getting to know your body and blood chemistry. If you want to know more about the science behind detoxification, then this episode is for you!   Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health program all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/. You can also join our free live webinar on epigenetics.   Online Coaching for Runners Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Consult with Me If you would like to work with me one to one on anything from your mindset, to head injuries, to biohacking your health, to optimal performance or executive coaching, please book a consultation here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/consultations.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: http://relentlessbook.lisatamati.com/ For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.   My Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Learn about the phases of detoxification. What is the assessment criteria for detoxification? What is the importance of context in detoxification?   Resources Try out a Metabolic Detoxification Questionnaire here. Alternatively, you can look for other questionnaires by searching for ‘metabolic detoxification questionnaire’. Detoxify or Die by Sherry A. Rogers Fasting Mimicking Diet Program by Dr Valter Longo Metabolic Fitness Curious to start your detoxification? Try out the Walsh Detox Program!     Episode Highlights [04:47] How Dr Walsh Started Studying Detoxification Dr Walsh was interested in health and fitness from a young age. He eventually ventured into massage therapy and became a fitness professional. He took a postgraduate degree to become a naturopathic physician. After his education, he felt that he had to study more to serve his patients better. His goal is to connect conventional Western medicine and alternative medicine. [09:56] Views on ‘Toxin’ and Detoxification Dr Walsh cites some ridiculous notions surrounding detoxification. In the 80s, it used to be rehabilitation for addiction to alcohol and drugs until everybody started hopping on the ‘detox bandwagon’. Xenobiotic or commonly known as ‘toxins’ is something foreign to the body that can cause damage in excess. When water leaves the body in any form, water-soluble toxins leave as well. Meanwhile, the body still needs to turn fat-soluble toxins into water-soluble toxins to get rid of it. Our bodies are naturally built to detoxify pollutants through biotransformation. Listen to the full episode for an in-depth discussion on toxins! [16:11] Categories of Pollutants First is heavy metals. This category includes aluminium, arsenic and mercury, among others. Second is persistent organic pollutants, which include phenol, dioxins and pesticides.  The last category is volatile organic chemicals (VOCs) that are usually inhaled.  In essence, pollutants are everywhere. [17:41] Everyone Is Exposed While everyone is exposed to pollutants, the levels may vary due to location and lifestyle. For instance, Dr Walsh believes that athletes may be less toxic due to sweating during exercise. Listen to the full episode to know the body’s pathways for getting rid of environmental pollutants. [23:04] The Difficulty in Assessment Criteria There are a lot of variables and testing methods to consider in assessing toxin exposure. The fat biopsy is regarded as the gold standard test. However, because different body areas store different amounts of fat, there’s no consistency in the body. Taking these tests can guide you to make different lifestyle changes. However, keep in mind that they cannot determine your body’s toxicity level quantitatively by an absolute number. Listen to the full episode to learn more about the complexity of detox questionnaires.  [30:00] Nature of Pollutants Toxin gets stored in a cell or area with low concentration. This is called the concentration gradient.  If there’s more toxin in the blood and less in the cell, it will get stored in the cell. When fasting, you go into a catabolic state. Studies have shown that xenobiotics in the blood increase in this state.  All detoxes are cellular detox. [33:43] The Phases of Detoxification Phase 0 starts with the fat-soluble toxin entering the cell. Phase 1 is the reaction with the addition of a hydroxyl group. Phase 2 concerns conjugation reaction of adding methylation, sulphation and the like.  Finally, phase 3 is when excretion happens.   Tune in to the full episode for Dr Walsh’s analogies and a detailed explanation of each phase! [42:06] The Three Pillars of Detoxification The keys of detoxification are mobilisation, biotransformation and excretion.  Mobilisation is getting pollutants out of storage. Biotransformation encompasses phases 1 to 3.  Excretion should take the toxin out of your body. [47:34] Effects of Dieting Dr Walsh recommends doing a weight loss program in conjunction with a detoxification program. During periods of weight loss or catabolism, xenobiotic levels increase. The problem with rapid weight loss and yo-yo dieting is the redistribution of toxins in the body without excretion. [53:22] Nutrients and Detoxification Being nutrient sufficient is enough to support phase 1. Phase 2 is driven by amino acids. Phase 3 can be blocked by three inhibitors: milk thistle, curcumin and green tea. However, note that the effects of these three inhibitors are based on its dosage and the context. One protocol will not work for everyone; you have to look at the totality. Listen to the full episode for more details about nutrients and botanicals!  [1:05:00] The Nature of Symptoms For Dr Walsh, thyroid dysfunction may be secondary to another issue. Once symptoms show, you should consider if it is a protective reaction. [1:11:32] Advice for Detoxification Dr Walsh shares details about his detox course, including a practitioner-based programme and The Walsh Detox for the general public.  Your blood chemistry is essential in determining your detoxification programme.   7 Powerful Quotes from This Episode ‘I’ll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life that are the most important things — relationships and love and how we try to study how the brain works — and I don’t think we have any idea’. ‘This is part of my problem with the industry is we can’t even decide on what a toxin is. . . So what I would suggest, the one that people are most talking about, that’s why I think environmental pollutant or environmental toxins make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind’. ‘They will test their blood, their urine and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it’s not in the blood, it’s not in the urine, but it is in the sweat’. ‘Everybody’s toxic. Everybody needs to detoxify. . . It’s not necessarily exposure; it’s we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, is it because of that or not? And so you can’t run around screaming everybody’s toxic because I don’t know that they are’. ‘And so it’s [toxins are] concentration gradient-based, which also means so that’s how it gets stored. If there’s more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that’s when it gets stored’. ‘There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘The body won’t release toxins if it’s not healthy enough, and it doesn’t think it can deal with them’. That’s not true’. ‘I’m against protocols; because one protocol will be brilliant for one and harmful for another same protocol’.   About Dr Walsh Dr Bryan Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for over 25 years and has been educating others in health for 20 of those years. When he isn’t teaching, he spends his time poring over the latest research and synthesising his findings into practical information for health practitioners to use with their clients. He has given lectures to members of the health care industry around the world and consistently receives positive feedback in his seminars and courses. His online educational platform, Metabolic Fitness, helps health professionals to stop guessing and start knowing what to do with their patients. Dr Walsh is best known for challenging traditional dogma in health and nutrition concepts, such as questioning current models of adrenal fatigue, glucose regulation, detoxification, mitochondrial dysfunction and more. As such, he has been sought out to consult with multiple companies, academic institutions and wellness organisations. Dr Walsh is also a board-certified Naturopathic Doctor and has been seeing patients throughout the U.S. for over a decade. Outside of his professional endeavors, you can find him spending time and having incredible amounts of fun with his wife, Dr Julie Walsh, and five children.   Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about the science behind detoxification. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa   Full Transcript Of The Podcast! Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits. And today I have just a super superstar for you, Dr. Brian Walsh, who's sitting in Maryland in the USA. Dr. Walsh is someone that I've followed for a long time and learned from. He is one of the great teachers in biochemistry and physiology. And today we are discussing detoxing very relevant to this time of the year. And this is all really next level information. Because it's all about detoxing, like what are the actual physiological steps of a detox process? And what is the latest and current research. This is not something you read in a two page magazine article detox type of thing. But this is the real deal with someone who really, really knows his stuff.  Now, Dr. Brian Walsh has been studying human physiology and nutrition for many, many years. And he spends his time sort of poring over the latest research and synthesizing all of that information for the layperson to be able to understand. And he also lectures at Western States University in biochemistry. And as a healthcare professional, he's a doctor of naturopathic medicine. And he has an online educational platform called metabolicfitnesspro.com, where he helps other health professionals like myself, and many, many others, as well as lay people with his programmes and courses. And we're going to be discussing today, as I said, detoxing, how to do it properly, when not to do it, what to be aware of if you are doing it. And he's you know—Dr. Walsh is someone who's really known for challenging traditional dogma in health. And he actually goes and does all the research, does deep deep dives into all of the clinical studies into PubMed, and then brings us the latest and information. So he's really someone that you want to have on your radar, someone that you want to know, if you want the latest and greatest in information.  I hope you're enjoying your Christmas time, by the time this episode comes out, Christmas will have been passed. And we're into the new year. And hopefully the world is on a new trajectory and that 2021 is going to be a hell of a lot better. And what better way to start the year than with a discussion around detoxing and getting your body in good shape for the year ahead. So without further ado, I'll be heading over to Dr. Brian Walsh.  And just a reminder too. If you want help with any health issues, if you are dealing with anything, please reach out to us lisa@lisatamati.com. You can reach me on email. If you're wanting information about our online run training programmes at Running Hot Coaching, want personalized run training, please do reach out to us as well. We just launched a new package that will be coming out in the next few weeks. So keep an eye out for that where we're going to be offering video analysis, as well as fully customized programmes and a session with me—all included in there in a package price. It's really really a no brainer. So if you want to find out about that, please reach out to us at lisa@lisatamati.com.  Of course our epigenetics programme is still open, if anyone wants to know and understand the genes—understanding everything to do with your genes, eliminating the trial and error for your body, understanding what foods to eat exactly, which areas you're predisposed to have problems with, how your brain functions, what your dominant hormones are all of this sort of great information. Please also reach out to us and we can put you in the right direction. We've done a few webinars already on our epigenetics programme. And in the coming weeks, we're also going to be having Dr. Ken McDonald on from PH-316, who's going to be going a little bit more deeper into this. So I hope you enjoy the session though for now with Dr. Brian Walsh. And we'll head over to him right now. Lisa Tamati: Well, hi everyone and welcome back to the Pushing The Limits. This week, I am super excited. I'm jumping out of my skin. I have a man who I really, really admire. I love his work. He's got an incredible brain. Just absolutely mind-mind conversation we were going to have today. I have Dr. Bryan Walsh with me. Welcome to the show, Dr. Walsh. Dr. Bryan Walsh: Thank you so much for being here. Lisa: It's a really, really an honour to have you on. Dr. Walsh, you’re still in Maryland, in the States? Can you give us a bit of a background just on who you are and sort of a quick synopsis and your background as a physician, etc.?  Dr. Bryan: Well, yes, I guess I should say it all started out, I was very much into health and fitness, even at a young age, quite honestly. I became a fitness professional—that’s how I started. And then I did a lot of orthopaedic work, so that led me to massage therapy. So I did massage and I was a fitness professional. And the problem is my clients would ask me health advice. And here in the States—I'm a law-abiding citizen—I could have talked to them about nutrition and supplements, but I wasn't allowed to with those things that I did.  So then I looked—and there's something in the States, it's a naturopathic physician, naturopathic doctor. I know you guys have naturopathic there. They're a little bit different. It's a four year postgraduate degree. So you go to four years of university, and the traditional four years. And then you have your doctorate. That sounded really good to me because I was already into alternative health. I was devouring books, on health, on herbs, on homeopathy, everything in the health. And that was the umbrella for all these things that I was interested. And I thought, wow, that's great, perfect.  So I went through four years of that. Spent way too much money. But it's also where I met my wife. So that is money rally well spent. Yes. Although we both went to school there. So we doubled our debt, essentially, by marrying each other. But what we quickly realized is that it didn't really prepare us to do what we wanted to do. And it didn't take long. I was sitting in front of patients, and I honestly—I didn't think I know what I was doing. I didn't feel qualified. I spent all that money over the four years of school with great classes, but it sounded like all these great topics but...  And so that started me—and this is all to tell you this story— where I realized I had to teach myself everything, that I had to reteach myself physiology. I know we're going to talk about detox today. But how I stumbled upon that what I'll call is the truth about detox. And so where I am today is I believe in old medicine, I believe in the body heals itself. But Western science and Western medicine is incredible. I mean, we owe much of what we know about the human body, in terms of mechanisms and pathways and how herbs even work in the first place, to Western science.  So what I tried to do is bridge the best of both, is to take the alternative nutritional functional health world, which is great for some things but horrible in others, and combine that with conventional Western medicine, which is great in some things, but horrible in others, and I try to connect the two. So I hope that gives you much of... Lisa: That’s brilliant.  Dr. Bryan: I love science. Lisa: And I love the way you sort of combine the traditional or the alternative with the allopathic sort of model because they do both have good things, and they do both have problems.  Dr. Bryan: Absolutely. And I can tell you, I love science. But I'll be the first to tell you that science will never prove some of the things in life—of the most important things, in relationships, in love, in health. We try to study how the brain works and I don't think we have any idea. We try to—we're doing genetic testing now, I don’t think… We talked about the microbiome, I don't think we know much of anything when it comes to these things. So, science is fascinating. It's so fun. It can occupy you for hours upon hours upon hours of reading and the rabbit hole of PubMed, but I don't think it will ever offer some of the answers.  So that's kind of where I live is that we live in this expansive universe full of all sorts of possibilities. But here on Earth, science really helps us a lot understand certain things, but it doesn't contain all the answers. Lisa: It's a very humble approach. And I think a really good place to start because we know a lot, we don't know a lot more. But we have to sort of work with what we've got and the best knowledge. And this is something that I've really enjoyed out of like, I think I've devoured everything I could find on the internet of yours. And I must say sometimes, I'm like my brain is spinning, trying to keep up and it's fantastic. And I was talking to a colleague who's also really into you and he's got a master's in physiology and he said, ‘Well, I struggled, too, so don't feel bad’. But you do have a way of putting things into analogies that I have just found absolutely fascinating. And today we're going to go into detoxing. And there is an analogy in this story that I've heard you speak of a couple of times that really went, ‘Aha, I get it now’. So definitely want to delve into that analogy. But so just to start with, with detoxing. Let's look at what detoxing in the public realm—if you like—in the popular—the magazines. People talk about detoxing a lot. And I think that we don't understand what detoxing is. So let's start there. What is a proper detox? Dr. Bryan: So what you just described, that's the problem. It's a mess. I was just in the checkout line at the grocery store, two days ago. I even took a picture of my phone to send my wife and it was like, ‘A faster way to do a liver detox’, and it was some medical doctor. I thought, ‘I'm not even going to open that magazine. It's going to be garbage’.  You’re right. People say, ‘drink a little bit of lemon juice in the morning, and that's a great way to detoxify the body’. And then I was in the airport one day, and I saw these foot pads that you put on your feet to help pull toxins out of your feet. And then there's the foot pads, and there's colonics. And there's all these different things, and that's why conventional medicine doesn't believe any of this because you have these people saying, ‘Well, when you skin brush, then you're detoxifying yourself’, maybe, maybe not. But no wonder they think that we're a bunch of quacks because if you stand back and look at all that nonsense, it does look like quackery.  In the 80s, detox, the only detox there—unless you were like a hippie—in the 80s, was like a celebrity going through some kind of rehab for some kind of addiction, alcohol or drug addiction, then they would go through some kind of rehabilitation, so that was a detox. That was the only detox there was. And then all of a sudden everybody started getting on this detox bandwagon. And the thought is that we are bombarded with—we’re basically these toxic waste cesspools of disgusting that’s inside of our bodies, and the only way to get rid of it is to do these to detoxify.  Now, there's some truth to that, some truth. But our body is designed to—a better way to say detoxification is biotransformation, first of all. So there are two different types of we'll call—I don't even like the word toxins, quite honestly. You can call them xenobiotics, starting with it with an ‘x’. Xenobiotic means it's something foreign to the body. You can also call them environmental pollutants, environmental toxins, whatever you’re going to call it. Some people say synthetic, but that's not true because Mercury is toxic to the body in high amounts. So, for lack of better terms, we can call them toxins, xenobiotics or whatever. But they're things that are foreign to the body that in excess can cause damage.  There's essentially, for simplicity sake, two forms, there's water soluble, and there's fat soluble. Water soluble, by and large, I don't think we have to deal with too much, because our body is really good at getting rid of it. Our body is so much water already, we don't have to do anything to it. If we have access to something that's toxic, and it's water soluble, our body's pretty good at getting rid of it.  And when you look at the ways of getting rid of something, it's anywhere that water goes. So sweating, obviously, urinating, it's quite a bit of quite a water. In faeces, there's a small amount of water that gets expelled there. And even technically—and people have measured this but in tears or saliva, you can get rid of toxins too. So anything where water is leaving the body, then water soluble toxins are leaving as well. And I personally believe that those aren't much of a concern to us because our body... It's kind of like if you take a whole bunch of B vitamins. Technically, those can be toxic in high amounts but they're water soluble in your urine turns glow in the dark yellow if you take too much of that because your body is getting rid of it. Same with vitamin C or any of the water-soluble vitamins.  Interestingly—and I hadn't thought of this as a way of describing this, but the vitamins that they say to be careful with are the fat-soluble ones like vitamin A, D, and K because they can accumulate and then those are the toxic ‘vitamins’ if you look at conventional medicine. So fat soluble toxins, those ones are more of concern because they can get stored and the body has to work a little bit harder in order to get rid of them. In other words, you have to take something that's fat soluble, turn it into something that's water soluble, and then the body can get rid of it and all those pathways that we talked about.  So the body has built in detoxification or bio transformation processes—everybody says it's the liver but it's not. The enzymes and steps necessary for this are found in a number of tissues and in quite a bit. So, things that have exposure to the outside world, the skin has this disability, the liver does, the kidneys do, the lungs incidentally do, the testes in a guy does when we consider the location as exposure to the outside world more so than some of the internal organs. And we can go into the details of this but basically this fat-soluble toxin that can cause damage to the body gets metabolized or bio transformed, turned into a water-soluble toxin, if you will, a compound. And then is easily excretable in—again sweat, tears, saliva, urine, or a little bit in faeces. So yes, that's kind of a nutshell version of it, I think. Lisa: Okay, so. So let's look quickly at what are toxins and what sort of a fix they have in the body? So we're talking things like your heavy metals, your Mercury's that you mentioned, your pesticides, your preservatives in your food, there's chemicals that were exposed to. Dr. Bryan: So that's honestly—this is part of my problem with the industry is we can't even decide on what a toxin is because the toxin if you think about it, a toxin is something that could cause damage to the body. Right? So then you could say a reactive oxygen species or oxidative stress is a toxin, technically. Hormones, if you have too much of a hormone, can that cause damage to the body? It absolutely can. So, then all of a sudden is a hormone a toxin.  And so that's where we start to run into problems, is that we just throw out these terms like toxins. Well, what is that something that? Something that damages the body? Well, a hammer, if you hit me on the head is going to damage my body. Is that a toxin? Let's say, oh, it's internally. All right, well, so how about lipid polysaccharides from a gram-negative bacteria? That's an infection. Is that a toxin? Yes, it is. So that's our—aflatoxin, you have mould in your house. And so, it ends up being this really broad term that people have a hard time describing.  Now, so what I would suggest. The one that people are most talking about, that's why I think environmental pollutant, or environmental toxins, make more sense because usually what people are talking about are things that are outside of us that get inside of us and cause damage of some kind. And there's three, let's just say major categories of that there's actually more. One would be things off the periodic table. So that's the heavy metals, by and large, so aluminium, arsenic, mercury, all those types. Even copper, copper is toxic. Iron is toxic.  Then there's—loosely the category that you can call persistent organic pollutants. And that's all the ones that get all the press, like this phenol and phthalates and dioxins and all those different things, pesticides. And then there's the ones that you could call them volatile organic chemicals, or VOCs, those ones are usually inhaled. So, you paint, you’re repainting your house, or your apartment and the smell that you get, or cosmetics or toiletries, cleaning products. If you buy a brand new piece of furniture and that off gassing, carpets. So those are the— mean, there's more, but those are the three major categories that I consider so... But then you consider where those come from, in the food that we eat, in the water that we drink, in the air that we breathe, it literally is everywhere. Lisa: Yes. So we are toxic.  Dr. Bryan: Well, yes. We are. And I long time ago would say that we're all toxic, and everybody needs to detoxify. And I've tempered that a little bit because like for example, there's one published paper that suggests—well, okay, I should take a step back—everybody is exposed, everybody is exposed, period, end of story. To prove otherwise, I would need to see that proof.  Now, it's going to be different considerably, however, based on your location, where you live. In New Zealand versus America. Here in America, I'm in Maryland, but that's going to be a lot different. I'm near farmland. So, we might have exposure to pesticides, but not so much some of the other things that might have been more of an urban area. In New Zealand there’s other different things.  So also that depends on one's lifestyle. So me and my family largely eat organic food as much as possible. We use—I don't say green cleaning products, but we use better cleaning products than just the standard things. And so we probably have less exposure than somebody following a standard diet using standard toiletries, cosmetics, yes, and all those different things too. So, we all have exposure. Yes, that's it. I think I believe that's irrefutable.  Is it stored in all of us? And I'm going to go ahead and say yes, but to different degrees. For example, you said you're a professional athlete. You have sweat a lot more than the majority of people. There's also some really interesting evidence showing that exercise actually upregulates certain detoxification or bio transformation enzymes. So you might actually be more adapted to that. Lisa: Another good reason to do it.  Dr. Bryan: Absolutely. You know what? It’s so funny, like, you know you're supposed to, but then you just see more and more reasons. And it does, it absolutely has been shown in papers, to upregulate certain detoxification enzymes. In addition to the fact that you're sweating more so than somebody who's sedentary. So, I haven't seen any literature on this, but I believe that most athletes are probably less toxic than the general public.  Lisa:  The sweat is also a preferred pathway for some of the toxins to leave the body.  Dr. Bryan: If used badly, yes. The skin has been called the third kidney before, which is kind of a cute thing to call it. I mean, is it or is it not? I mean, it's not like you're urinating out of your skin. So that should be gross. Next time you sweat, think of that. No, but it's a major excretory organ.  And I will add this, there's some really interesting, really interesting scientific papers — small, unfortunately, not a lot of money in this industry to test this stuff. But they will take a group of people, and they will test their blood, their urine, and their sweat for a specific xenobiotic or environmental pollutant. And they will find in many cases, it's not in the blood, it's not in the urine, but it is in the sweat. Lisa: Exactly. Yes. The preferred pathway, yes.  Dr. Bryan: That's an indication that a) it's being stored and b)... Yes, whether it's a preferred pathway or not, what that means to me is that it's probably stored in the tissues. Because you think about the blood, the blood is circulatory and it's bringing things around. The kidneys are filtering the blood. So, if it's not in the blood, that makes sense, it's not in the urine. What that means is it's stored. It's if it's not coming out in the urine, that means it's not in the blood, that means it's stored in tissues. And so, it isn’t going out. So whether it's preferred by the body or not, I don't know. But that just means that it's right there, right close to the tissues.  Lisa: Yes, In coming out.  Dr. Bryan: Right close to the periphery, and it's coming out via the interstitial fluid and stuff surrounding itself. But here's another thing to consider, too, when you talked about the demographic of the population that listens to this is, while most athletes probably have less—I mean, when it gets a broad state, you can't say yes, might have less because of exercising, because of firing. But are they exposed to something more than might somebody else be?  So for example, if they're drinking out of plastic bottles that have been warmed up sitting in the sun all day, like might they have more excess pollutants...  Lisa: More BPA... Dr. Bryan: ….these people are outside exercising in polluted area.  Lisa: Exhaust fumes.  Dr. Bryan: Exhaust fumes. I mean, you think about your respiratory rate when you're exercising, your respiratory rate is quite a bit higher than somebody who's sedentary. So then all of a sudden all those... Lisa: And oxidative stress Dr. Bryan: Yes, absolutely. So there's a lot of factors to consider for sure. Lisa: Yes. So we've looked at—these are the broad categories of toxins. And yes, we're probably all toxic, and we need to be doing or thinking about doing a detox—I don't want to say protocol—but to thinking about it constantly detoxing. And you touched on the couple of studies here where they measure the sweat, they measure the urine, and so on, and they got different measurements for different things. That's one of the problems, isn’t it?  The assessment criteria. Because obviously, if we're doing a detox, we want to be able to assess, are we actually getting—and when you dived into the literature of assessments in defining out which is the best—how do I see if I'm toxic? What did you find in the literature around all the assessments? Dr. Bryan: So in the functional medicine world, there's no shortage of—well just tests in general and really attractive, good looking tests that when you look at them, you want to run them. Like, ‘Well, I would like to run this on myself. forget my patients or clients I want to run these tests’. The scientific validity on a lot of these tests is not there at all, despite what people might say or think.  Yes, so I'm not opposed to testing for toxins. But there's so many variables to consider, and the practitioners that are running them, I don't think are considering these. So I think a lot of people are using them—they're wasting their money on them because they're not considering all these variables. So, for example, the first question to ask is, ‘what tissue do you test’? Do you test the blood? Do you test the urine? There are hair tests. Technically, in the literature, they test fingernails for toxin exposure. There's so many different ways of testing–fat biopsy, you want to take a needle into your fats, take some of it out and test that.  And actually—I'll say since I said that—fat biopsies are considered to be the gold standard for internal toxic burden, and that would make sense if that's where they're stored. But the problem is, according to research—and this is done on humans, mind you—that different fat depots in the body store differing amounts of things. So, you might inject it into your, your, your butt fat, and find a whole bunch of one thing, and then you do it to your abdominal fat, and you come up with a higher amount of something else. So, if that's the gold standard, and you can't even have any consistency in the human body, then that's not going to be accurate, either. And if that's the gold standard, then that's not accurate, then none of them are going to be accurate. So, the short version is there are some—I guess I'll say, like validated as much as you can questionnaire—subjective questionnaires that one can take and get an idea of how toxic they may or may not be. Now, it's not quantitative. It's quantitative in the sense that you get a numerical value for the score. But it's not quantitative, in terms of like, This is how toxic I am. I am 80% toxic out of 100’. It's just a subjective questionnaire. But if somebody were to take a questionnaire like this, and scores high... Lisa: We've got a problem Dr. Bryan: ...and then does a few detox rounds or whatever, for a few months, six months, nine months, whatever it is, and then does it again and their scores are lower, that's good enough to suggest that they're doing better. And what's interesting about some of these questionnaires, is they not only asks things like, ‘do you live around industry? Do you have exposure to petrol or to gas’? But your symptoms as well. And so it takes all of these considerations, like, ‘Yes, I live and work around a lot of chemicals, but I don't have symptoms’ versus somebody that has a whole bunch of symptoms that are associated with toxic exposure, but they don't live around them. So, it does—they really are comprehensive. Lisa: I’d like to get a couple of the links to those if we could possibly see.  Dr. Bryan: And listen, it's free. That's the very nice thing. You don't have to spend 300 US dollars on some blood tests that may or not be accurate. And what people are really interested in is, ‘how toxic are you’? Well, if my surroundings and my symptoms suggest that I am, based on these questionnaires, that's good enough for me. And as opposed to test, if you do it six months later, and it's approved, then I think you're probably doing a little bit better. Lisa: It's a little bit like your cell blueprint, which I found brilliant, by the way, and if anyone wants to check out that we can put the links. That questionnaire that you've developed there gives the practitioner the direction to go and we don't have a specific, ‘This isn’t definitely but hey, you might want to check your thyroid. Hey, you might want to go and check if you've got a parasitic infection, or whatever the case may be’. And I find that a brilliant system really. Dr. Bryan: But isn't that what a practitioner wants to do? I mean, the patients come in, and they want to know, ‘Well, where should I head first’? And detox questionnaire—and again, so everybody is exposed period, everybody's exposed. Everybody has some degree of storage. Now, I don't know how much. They might be really toxic. They might be cut. Who knows? But everybody has some degree of storage. The question is, then, is, ‘Are your symptoms—because of xenobiotic exposure—are in storage or not’?  And that's where these questionnaires come in handy. If you take a questionnaire like that, and I mean, because there's people out there, believe me, there's plenty of them. Everybody's toxic, everybody needs to detoxify. There's an old book called Detoxify or Die. I mean, if that's not scary enough. It’s a good book, but I mean, it's not necessary. So we all have exposure, it's we all have some degree of storage. The question is, when somebody is not feeling optimal, Is it because of that or not?  And so you can't run around screaming ‘everybody's toxic’ because I don't know that they are. But if you score high on one of those questionnaires, then that's the direction you'd want to look into. And if you score low, I mean, listen, people will still argue it, ‘Well. We're still all toxic’. I wouldn't go down that road. It wouldn't be the first thing that I’ll thought about.  Lisa: It’s not your first protocol Dr. Bryan: Oh, no. The questionnaires... Absolutely.  Lisa: Yes, I think that's what I do as a practitioner too, as epigenetics practitioner, and a health coach, is go for the low hanging fruit first. Because we can go in 100 directions and I can confuse the hell out of my clients and they can be like, ‘what the hell am I doing’? But if you are going for the ones late tackle, best piece of the puzzle, and then work your way up the food chain is so to speak—and actually find out which ones are the most important.  Dr. Walsh, I mean—we're going to put the links in the show notes—you've developed your own detox system if you like, which I'm really keen to share with everybody and for them to check out. But let's go in now to the actual four phases of detox: zero, one, two, and three, and you have four, isn't it? In most people—or some people are at least aware of phase one and two detox within the cell. And when I first heard you talk about this, I was like, ‘Wow, okay, there’s a zero and there’s a three’. Okay, can you explain in a nutshell, what the body does when it gets a toxin? It's in the blood for some reason, it's gotten there. What actually happens next in these detox phases?  Dr. Bryan: All right, well just to make it really comprehensive. I'll tell you, when you said when it gets into the blood, what happens? So when it gets in the blood, it can be detoxified, biotransformed, and excreted. But the best way to describe this is, so if it's in the bloodstream, wish I have something to sort of model this with but so like, so the bloodstream, and then you have you have a cell next to the bloodstream. Now there's—in physiology, there's what's called a concentration gradient. And these membranes… And so let's say we have the bloodstream in a tube—I really wish I had some kind of props here. I’m looking around. I have—my son has a Santa hat, razor blade, I don't know, I don't have much around here. Anyhow, so you have the bloodstream and here you have a cell. Now, if there's more in the blood of this, whatever it is, and less in the cell, it will tend to go into the cell. And it's usually fat cells, because it's fat soluble, it will tend to go into adipocytes or fat cells.  And so it's concentration gradient based, which also means—so that's how it gets stored. If there's more in the blood and less in the cell, then it will tend to go into the cell. And that's when it gets stored. There's a really, really cool paper that discusses how adipocytes used to be considered to be just an energy repository, but then turned out to be an organ because they excrete over a hundred different things. But one of the additional roles they suggest is that it is this. It is to store toxins or xenobiotics, or things that could otherwise damage the body—they're fat soluble, which would make sense.  Now, if that's a concentration grid. Now let's say we're in a fasted state, and we haven't eaten anything and or exposure. If there's less in the blood, and more in the fat cell, then it will leak out. And it's based on a concentration grade, it's based on homeostasis. There’s some ridiculous stories out there that will say, ‘the body won't release toxins if it's not healthy enough, and it doesn't think it can deal with them’. That's not true. What I've seen is that it leaks out from a homeostasis for a concentration gradient if there's less than the blood and more in the cell. So we are constantly leaking this stuff into our blood, if it's stored. Now this gets amplified. And I talked about this in the course, during lipolysis. So in a fasted state, in a catabolic state—not even not even losing fat, but just in a catabolic state which we go through at night. So if you stop eating at 8pm and you're sleeping, you're in a catabolic state, for example.  If you're in a state of fasting, or lipolysis, then that's going to speed up mobilization. So now—and all the studies I've ever seen on mammals or humans show this. In a hypocaloric state, or fasted state levels of xenobiotics go up in your blood. And I'll say it again because that's huge. In a fasted state or a hypocaloric state, like dieting, then if there's stored xenobiotics, it will dump into the bloodstream, and those levels go up. And they always show that every single time because that's a state of lipolysis as a catabolic state.  So then now we're back in the blood. So whether it's at an immediate exposure, or it was just released, the rest of the story remains the same. So then what happens? And I should just say too, I mean, I get frustrated with pieces of the industry. There's some people that will say, ‘Well, it's not a detox if it's not a cellular detox. If you don't detox yourself, then you're not’...  This happens at the cellular level, as all detoxes is a cellular detox. So what I'm about to describe next is the cell.  So let's say we have that xenobiotic it's floating around in the blood, we either just had exposure, or it came out of a fat cell. So in one of the cells, like the liver, the kidneys, the skin that we said has the ability to do this, there are four phases of detox. So if you picture just a cube, all I have is a mug, but I have a cube. Then there needs to be a door coming in and a door coming out, that's going to be two of the phases. And then once it's inside, there's two other things that are going to happen to this.  So here's our cell, we have a fat soluble compound—I'm looking around for some—we have a fat soluble. Lisa: It’s like your room, isn’t it?  Dr. Bryan: Well, that's the way that's why I've said it before. So yes, I mean, you could just use it as that. So in the room that you're in, or even a car quite honestly would work. So if you're in a room, you’re the cell, that's the cell, let's just say it's a liver cell. So when the door opens, that's phase zero detoxification. That's an actual phase. It was recently discovered in the early 2000s. Most people haven't heard of it but it's legitimate, things can block this. So if that happens, then that's a problem, clearly. So phase zero is when the door opens and the fat soluble compound comes into your room, into where you were.  Lisa: Into the cell. Dr. Bryan: Into the cell, right. And once it's there, it has to go through two phases of detox. And you said I use analogies—quite honestly, I kind of make them up on the fly. Lisa: That’s awesome.  Dr. Bryan: Well, I mean, I don't even know what I said. But I think in the past, what I've said...  Lisa: It was an angry dude—a person—we make the person a toxin who’s just entered the room.  Dr. Bryan: Oh yes. All right. I make him up on the fly until now. So all right, yes, yes, I can go with that one. So you have the room, the room’s a cell, a person is on the outside of your room, they come in, that's phase zero. And that's all it is in the cell is just a little protein tube. So the person comes in, they're fat soluble person. And they're angry. So what did we say? Lisa: You stick a sticky note on the head.  Dr. Bryan: Is that what I said?  Lisa: Yes. Dr. Bryan: Let’s make them more mad. That's right. Okay. See, listen, I'm telling you make it up right then and there. All right, you're right. You're right. You're right.  So the person comes in, and they will damage your room. But to incite them and make them even more angry. Yes, that’s right. You put a little sticky note, like what was your little yellow sticky notes, and you put them on the forehead, that makes them really mad. Even more mad than they were in the first place. And now you can calm them down. But if you don't, they're going to start flipping over your desk, and just totally, totally worse than they were in the first place. They were angry when they came in. But now they're even angrier. But you can hand them a $100 bill. And they're going to say, ‘All right, I was angry but now I'm not anymore. I'm good. You just handed me something. So I'll go ahead and quietly leave the room now’. And then when they walk out another door of the room, then that would be phase three.  So to put that—and thanks for reminding me of my analogy. But biochemically speaking, so you have a fat soluble compound, like a phthalate or a dioxin, or whatever it might be. So it literally has to get in the cell in the first place. Now, researchers used to think it was a fat-soluble membrane, fat soluble compound, and would just go right in. And that's not the case. It needs a channel in order to bring it in. That's phase zero, literally it is phase zero. And why is it phase zero? It was because they discovered this after they already knew about phase one and phase two, but they didn't have any numbers before then and they didn't even know it existed. So in the early 2000s, they said, ‘Well, we'll name it phase zero’. So that's the entry of a fat-soluble toxin, let's just say into hepatocyte, liver cell.  Phase one: reactions. There's a few different kinds. They’re like oxidation reduction type of thing, hydrolysis. Basically, what happens is that when in the sticky note what it had on it, it had an OH, hydroxyl group. So you put a hydroxyl group on this person, or you exposed a hydroxyl group that was already present but wasn't fully exposed. Now the problem is after we put that sticky note on their forehead, and they got even more angry is that toxin beforehand could cause damage to the body. It could cause oxidative stress or DNA damage or endocrine disruption or citric acid cycle, mitochondria, whatever was unique to that particular toxin. But now that it has OH exposed or added on to it via phase one, it is water soluble, first of all. It's water soluble, which is cool. Now your body can get rid of it. However, it's considered to be an intermediate metabolite, and is considered to be more damaging than the original xenobiotic.  Now, it's not true of every single time. And that's the thing, there are too many of these compounds to make blanket statements. People will say it's more toxic. No, it's not. It may be more damaging—I'm not going to say more toxic. It may cause more damage now that it's water soluble with this hydroxyl group exposed. But then phase two, when you handle this angry—now really angry person, a $100 bill US dollars. I wouldn't let you guys—you hand them a $100 bill or a bunch of money, they're not angry anymore. They're still water-soluble, they were but now phase two is considered a conjugation reaction and conjugation is adding something to it.  And so people that are familiar with phase two are familiar with things like methylation or sulphation, or glucuronidation, or amino acid conjugation, any of those things but what gets handed is this: so sulfation, you hand them a sulphur group, methylation, it hands them a methyl group, amino acid conjugation, it's usually glycine, glycine will go, glutathione conjugations glutathione, so acetylation and acetyl groups. So the xenobiotic gets handed to it, what's unique to that particular one, if that makes sense. You can make it really easy to talk about hormones like sex hormones, go through the same pathway—the testosterone, the estrogen. They go through the same pathway. Lisa: They do, and neurotransmitters as well. Dr. Bryan: Yes, cytokines, immunoglobulin, antibodies Lisa: And dopamine and all of that?  Dr. Bryan: Yes, by and large, by and large, yes. So then it gets phased two. It gets something handed to. Let's say, it gets a sulphur group and went through sulfation. Now, it's no longer damaging to the body. Now it's relatively benign. It was damaging as its original compound. It came in through phase zero, it was made potentially more damaging by exposing or adding on a hydroxyl group, depending on what the compound was, and depending on the biochemical pathway went through, but then when it gets conjugated, it's still water soluble, but now it's not damaging. And can there—if phase three, that second door is open, can go out of the door.  Now remember, so all that does—and this is a really important part—there's a lot of misunderstandings of what phase three is. Phase three is merely a tube, leaving that cell, which means that, this thing now, in terms of physiology goes into the interstitial fluid surrounding cells.  Lisa: And it’s water-soluble at this point.  Dr. Bryan: It’s water-soluble in the interstitial fluid, and can be excreted in sweat. It can go through the lymphatic system, which is going to pick up some of the junk of the interstitial fluid but that just dumps itself in the bloodstream anyways, which that means it'll probably end up in the kidneys and get excreted out in urine. But a lot of this can end up going in—since it happens in the liver, the liver will get rid of its these...  Lisa: ...products  Dr. Bryan: ...through bile because the route from the liver to the intestines is via bile.  Lisa: Why is this not phase four, then? Like phase three should be the thing leaving the cell. Dr. Bryan: It is, that's phase three. Lisa: Phase four should be like actually the excretion method. Dr. Bryan: You can call it phase—or at some point, you're going to have too many phases. You’ll be like, the 10 phases of detox. It will just confuse everybody. But after it leaves the cell, the most critical piece is excretion. And I mean, we're not talking about this part yet but I'll just say, the three pieces, there's four phases to detox. But the three things that must happen for somebody to actually detoxify, and I say must with a capital MUST, is one is they have to be mobilized. You have to get them out of the storage in first place. Two is you have to go through biotransformation, which is the phase zero, one, two, and three. The third part is they have to be excluded. If they're not excreted—and this is a really important part—if it's not excreted, it can go into another cell. That conjugation reaction that can get undone, there are enzymes that will undo that conjugation. So you handed this sulphur... Lisa: You’re backing in the shot again basically. Dr. Bryan: Well, and then it becomes this damaging thing again, and can get stored in another tissue if it doesn't get excreted, which, incidentally, is why I have a major problem with most fasting programmes. Honestly, most weight loss programmes in sedentary people. I mean, if you take a fitness competitor...  Lisa: An athlete’s all right, they're going to sweat it out.  Dr. Bryan: They'll probably be okay. But if you take somebody who has just been storing their whole life, they've never really exercised, they get to be 45 years old. They wear a certain weight during their wedding. Now, they're 45, they don't feel sexy anymore. Maybe it's a good time to do a real weight loss programme, the chances of them flooding their system with these things is tremendous. And if there is not an active role in, especially that's the mobilization, that's the first part.  But to properly detoxify these, and more importantly, excrete these things, then it's just going to go somewhere else. And I will say there's some evidence. It's weak evidence, unfortunately, there's not a lot of research on this, but midlife weight loss might be associated with an increased risk of things like dementia and certain chronic diseases. Lisa: I want to sit on this topic a little bit and dive into, because I had some questions when I started to understand this whole process, it really rang some alarm bells for me. For people who do like yo-yo dieting, they're losing weight, they're gaining it, they're losing weight, they're gaining it. They're actually doing a lot of damage than somebody who's just lost it. Another thing is if you're losing it slowly over time as compared to just dumping it all because you've done a juice fast that someone told you was a fantastic detox. And then you've dumped all this into the system. And this can have impacts years later, like we just mentioned, like dementia, Parkinson's disease, all of these things.  Because I was listening to one of your biochemistry or blood chemistry lectures, I can't remember which one, something to do with cardiovascular system. And you were talking about the triglyceride molecule, or whatever you call it. And how—if the legs are broken off—it’s free fatty acids get into the system and then this can clog up the system, cause insulin resistance, be a contributing factor to diabetes, all of these things. And I was like, ‘Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So, when I'm losing weight, which I think is a good thing for my body, I'm actually also doing some damaging things because I'm releasing these toxins or these free fatty acids or, or things that are actually causing trouble’.  So when we have a detox programme that's in the latest magazine, and even some of the scientific like Dr. Valter Longo’s Fasting Mimicking Diets, which is a great—lot of research gone into it, but it's looking at the mobilization, the autophagy, the mitophagy, all of these good pieces of the puzzle, but it hasn't actually considered the excretion. It does look at the micronutrients required for phase one and two, which is fantastic.  So you've got three pillars here that you're talking about. First is mobilization, of the fats or the toxins into the bloodstream from stored places, like your fat cells. Then we've got phase one and two, where it's processed, the detox—actual detox situation. And for that, we need a whole lot of micronutrients, which I want to touch on briefly like using your selenium and your B vitamins and goodness knows what. If you don't have those—your sulphur groups. If you don't have those, you're going to have trouble. And then we need to look at how do we get this stuff out. So what can we do to support the body to do binders or I don't know what the sweating protocols or saunas or whatever?  I had one question that for me personally, I've got a mum that had a massive aneurysm four years ago, and my listeners know about my story. I've just written a book about her journey back for massive brain damage. Now she's lost 30 something kilos over this last four and a half years, when I have been rehabilitating her. She does not sweat. And she's 79 years old, she's never really sweated. She doesn't do that very well, naturally. And she also now at 79, can't exercise intensively enough to sweat. I can't put her in a sauna because here temperature regulation has gone with her brain function. I have to be really, really careful, then if I make you lose any more weight, don't I? With brain damage... Dr. Bryan: Well, it’s a hard thing to say for sure. I mean, first of all, with all that weight loss already—I don't want to say the damages—you have no idea.  Lisa: Yes, so hopefully it was not a big dump.  Dr. Bryan: Yes, so there are some interesting human studies, looking at slow versus more rapid weight loss and how much xenobiotic levels go up, and how it affects thyroid hormone, and the basal metabolic rate and all these different things to which is their recommendation is to do slower detox, but like I said, I would recommend how about, I mean start a weight loss, I would support doing detoxification pathways while you're doing the weight loss programme so that you can get rid of these things better, and it doesn't cause damage.  Yes, so in terms of yo-yo dieting, again everybody's a little different. I can't say this happens to everyone. It depends on your diet, your lifestyle, where you live, and how much you've accumulated. I mean, some people don't have a whole lot, I would suspect. But yes, so there in fact, there is at least one study that comes to mind using mice and yo-yo dieting. And what basically it showed with them is that during periods of weight loss or catabolism, that their xenobiotic levels would go up. And then when they stopped in the hypocaloric state, they went back into a more of a hyper caloric state, that the xenobiotics that weren't excreted went somewhere else. And when I mean somewhere else, like a different tissue, so it absolutely can go from one tissue. Absolutely. Absolutely.  In fact, I wanted to tell you this. Anecdotally, I just talked to a guy—I don't know about a month ago—who used to work at a water fast detox clinic in Thailand. And he worked there for a really long time. And he's said that their people would fly to Thailand to go to this water fast detox clinic that had no business to do so. They were not healthy, it's more of a novelty. Like, ‘hey, let's go to Thailand and go to the water fast place for two weeks and do a detox, then we'll go back and live our life normally like we did before, eating a bunch of garbage’. And he said, they had no business doing it, but they would come back once or twice a year. And the same people he said would get worse, that I mean, and horrible, like liver problems or teeth were falling out, and just wrecking them. And it was fascinating to hear that story. He didn't know why. Lisa: Yes, and I can guess why. Dr. Bryan: Well, that's what I mean is to actually have real world experience, possibly. There's no proof of this, but to see these people that would do a one week, two weeks supervised water fast and then come live their life and then come back, and their health was worse. And I think if I had to bet I would say that's probably why. And consider, it's just a water fast. So what were they not doing, is they weren't exceeding, they weren't sweating. They didn't take any binders. They weren't doing anything. All they were doing is just water. And so, to me, they were flooding their system in a very—almost completely fasted state except for water, which is essentially fasting. Flooding their system, potentially with xenobiotics, not excreting them all and then reabsorbing them, putting them in different tissues.   Lisa: Re-depositing them in your brain or something. So you could shift the mercury molecule, for example, from your fat cell where it was pretty safe. Put it into your blood and then it get redeposited in your brain and cause real strife.  Dr. Bryan: And he hasn't contacted me yet. I think he will probably be angry. But Dr. Longo you mentioned, I mean, the guy's brilliant. He's brilliant, he’s great.  Lisa: Oh, yes, no doubt. Dr. Bryan: And it's super, super cool what he's doing, that's a huge concern that I have, though: is that you take an average person and you put them on what's essentially like, what 300 to 500 calorie diet for a period of time, and if you don't support the biochemical—so that's mobilization for sure. If you don't support the second part, which is detoxification pathways, and then the third pick is excretion, then you're potentially making them worse longer. And again, who cares about autophagy and mitophagy if you're just redistributing these xenobiotics somewhere? And it’s a huge concern. It's a legitimate one. And I’m not saying what he's done is bad, I just think it's a piece that is missing.  Lisa: A discussion needs to be had around this. Dr. Bryan: Yes, well, and that's true of... So, take the Gwyneth Paltrow juice test. It's the same thing. You're not binding or excreting anything. You're hypocaloric, yes. Are you improving detoxification? Well, not if you have things like celery and carrots because those might actually inhibit as it turns out. So you're not detoxing. So you're mobilizing, not detoxifying and not excreting—that's bad news, I think, long term. Lisa: Well, let's look—talk about a couple other things that are in the phase one and two, in phase three, actually, more specifically. Some of the compounds that we consider great compounds for a lot of things, like you mentioned celery and carrots. I mean, that's what people juice with. I mean, I know I just had a celery juice for breakfast. I'm not into detox, but celery in itself is not a bad thing. But it can be a mild phase three. I believe inhibitor is in curcumin, milk thistle, some of these things that we consider detox herbs, if you like, and especially in supplement doses versus food doses can actually have the opposite of fate. Can you go into just a little bit of that, what nutrients support phase one and two and three, and which one's actually inhibited? And why is it counter-intuitive?  Dr. Bryan: Well, the counter intuitiveness of it has to do with the dose, turns out. So well, and again, I mean, as humans, good lord, we've been wrong far more times than we've been right. I mean, as a husband, I can tell you, that's true. And father, it's like a daily basis. But so what we did with milk thistle was we say, milk thistle is good for liver liver detox is there for milk thistle is good for detox. And that's not true. And that's fine. I mean, that logical progression of thought makes sense, but it's not how it pans out. So it's dose related.  So, phase one. There's a lot of talk about phase one out there. Phase one are very basic, rudimentary biochemical processes. Oxidation reduction hydrolysis, if those suck in a person, detox is not your problem. They get highlighted a lot—phase one pathways. But in the end, people will say technically you need some B vitamins for this, but you need B vitamins to run most of the basic biochemical processes in the first place. So, honestly, phase one is not a phase I worry about too much in people. As long as they're nutrient sufficient, which basically means taking a good quality multi, they're probably—and I say big probably—they're probably fine with phase one. There are things incidentally, like some of those vegetables that you mentioned.  So this is where it gets crazy. In high doses, things like celery or apples or carrots can inhibit phase one a little

Following a difficult, traumatic, or violent incident, there are a lot of challenges to work through. But when planning and thinking through how to handle these situations, we often focus almost wholly on the response and tend to ignore the short and long-term recovery challenges. In this episode of the Managing Uncertainty Podcast, Bryghtpath Principal & CEO Bryan Strawser and Senior Consultant Jennifer Otremba talk through their own experiences in the aftermath of major crisis situations. Topics discussed include grief counseling, post-traumatic stress, managing the press, post-disaster payroll policies, and more. //static.leadpages.net/leadboxes/current/embed.js Episode Transcript Jen: I read this article where there was a grief counselor that was interviewed and taking specifically around the aftermath of a situation and how its managed and how its handled. This grief counselor actually would get called onsite for various different high-level incidents, much like the shooting in Florida, 9-11, things like that. The grief counselor would come onsite and they would help the people involved through the situation. We saw that at our previous employer where if there was a big incident that happened we would have counselors that were onsite. Bryan: It was part of our SOP really. Jen: Absolutely, and help out. I just thought this would be a great topic to talk about to kind of educate those around what it's like to go through an aftermath. Bryan and I have both gone through many situations- Bryan: Numerous. Jen: Where we dealt with an aftermath of a traumatic incident so we thought it would be a good idea to talk about what that looks like. Bryan: For me it always ... This kind of is just ... This issue gets overlooked a lot, but because of what I've learned through my experience and our experiences together is that this always seems to be part of the right of boom process. When I talk about left of boom, right of boom, you've got the bad thing that happened, the boom, and there's what you can do before that, the preparation and the training and the exercises and whatever, but then the bad thing happens, you respond to it and then part of your long-term recovery, which what we're talking about here falls right on getting out of that immediate response stage, is how do you deal with the aftermath of the situation in terms of taking care of the team, taking care of the survivors or the victims and their families and the organization, how do you make sure that people are okay through this. Jen: Right, and like you said, this should actually be part of your crisis planning. Bryan: It should be. Jen: It should be part of the plan. Bryan: It needs to be one of the first things that you do once you've gotten to that immediate response and we're sure that people are safe and the immediate danger has passed, is how do you start to help people with the immediate and long-term aftermath of the situation that has impacted them. Jen: Yeah, and understanding some of the things you can expect to see. Some individuals may need to take some time off. They might need to take some time away from where it happened before they can ... Yeah. Bryan: If you're a multi-facility company they may want to work at a different facility moving forward. Jen: Yeah. It might be temporary or that might be permanent, but you need to take that in consideration and understand that that might be part of your planning process. Bryan: You'll find ... And this is definitely not ... This is something that you need to involve a professional organization, outside organization, to do and there's a number of companies that provide this, it's really kind of in the medical field. Whether you call it grief counseling or you call it just kind of the post-traumatic incident counseling, there's a lot of terminology to be used. But what you often see is these services will come in and they will do a combination of kind of group conversation, of working through what has happened, and some individual conversation. It's not ... I wouldn't characterize this as you're hiring counselors for everyone, but you are bringing somebody in that's an expert in dealing with these situations and helping your team talk through that. And then you may have folks, as Jen says, may need some time off and in an ethical organization you're going to find a way to accommodate that, regardless of what your policy is. Say that you're going to help them through the situation, and you may have folks that will need, through your medical coverage, long-term psychological, psychiatric counseling in order to deal with the aftermath of the situation. Jen: Right. I think one of the big things is you need to understand that there's a short-term and a long-term recovery process. Bryan: Right. Jen: There's what happens in the aftermath as far as the immediate aftermath, within days or weeks of something happening, but then understanding what that looks like long-term for people because everyone handles it differently. Bryan: I know one thing to consider, whatever the incident is that causes this workplace trauma, this traumatic incident that occurred. It can be a shooting situation, it could be an industrial accident, it could be a natural disaster, a tornado or whatever. What often I have done in my experience is we have made sure that folks are safe and we realize that we've had this horrible thing has happened, whatever it is. It's going to bring media attention, it's likely going to involve law enforcement and the emergency services. We would often think about how can we get the team out of that situation and somewhere safe. I'm often reminded of an issue we dealt with in my experience in 2010 where I had an individual come into a location and shoot and kill an employee and then took his own life. There's the immediate response, which is there's as run-hide-fight process and even before that was popular, everybody got out of the building. The first thing that the local leadership did for my employer at the time was: Okay, I'm going to account for everybody. I've got a competitor next door, we're going in there, they've offered us a conference room. We're going to get in there. We're going to sit down. We're going to get our families in here. We're going to make the call to the outside counselors to come help us out. We're going to be over here shielded from the media and all of the crazy stuff that comes in. I thought that was extremely astute work by the young leader that was there that day. Did everything right, but that's what we had taught them how to do. Jen: Yeah. I've experienced, aside from some of the ones that Bryan and I have experienced together, definitely experienced a lot of these types of scenarios, particularly at the beginning of the war when I was responding to mass casualty events. Some of the things that we used to do is, immediately following a mass casualty event we would get everyone together and talk about it and make sure everyone was doing okay. Bryan: That's right. Jen: But one thing we don't always do great on is the long-term and how that can affect people long-term. There's no way of knowing how it's going to affect any one person, but there is definitely going to be some kind of effect one way or another, whether it's conscious or subconscious. With good leaders, it's a matter of continuing to check in with your people, make sure they're doing okay and they have the resources that they need. Bryan: When I was a young leader, I was in New England for 9-11 and I had locations that were in southwestern Connecticut near New York City and that's where I was, I was in the Hartford area on the morning of 9-11 when all of those events transpired. I remember, my counterpart and I went back the next day and toured all of our Connecticut stores, not because we really cared about what was going on in terms of the business, but we were worried about the team. Folks there knew people who worked at the World Trade Center, had family members. They had this deep connection to the events in New York City in particular and all we really did was go from location to location and just talk with everybody, like: Is everybody okay? How are you doing? Is there anything we can do? Years later, this still comes up when I talk to people from Connecticut that they had my counterpart and I kind of making this circuit throughout the area to make sure that folks were okay. That was a conversation that we continued as leaders for years, all tied back to that traumatic incident that many of us experienced on the morning of 9-11. Jen: Yeah. You find when you go through something as traumatic as that, people really come together and create bonds that never go away, which is great because with those bonds, years down the road ... I know I can call some of my buddies that I was involved in some of those mass casualty incidents with, that I can call them any time and we can talk through things. There's kind of an untold bond between you because you were together. Those relationships are excellent to keep to continue to help each other through things like this, even down the road. That's a good way to talk about through getting your employees and that through those types of situations, but the one thing we don't always talk about is leaders. Bryan: We are not immune from this. Jen: Not immune to it at all. Leaders also experience the same levels of stress as anyone else does, plus they have the responsibility to take care of all of these people. Bryan: I think when we're talking about leaders, it's not just leaders at the site because I think of them as being directly impacted, but I've worked in crisis management for almost 20 years and it doesn't go away. Even if you're leading at a enterprise level and you're thousands of miles away from the incident that you're managing, it's that you still have impact from that, particularly if it's ... For me if it's one of two things: It's that sharp, traumatic incident, particularly if lives were lost, but it's also the ... Okay, we've had this major incident and we've dodged the ... We've not had people seriously injured, we've not lost anyone or a family member, but we have all of this work that has to be done to get the business back up and running and make sure that the team is made as whole as they can through the process because of damage to their community and homes and schools and what have you. Man, that takes a lot out of people and honestly most companies don't really put a lot of resources into crisis management, so it's often one, two, three people that are trying to manage this or with the help of a place like ours. I think it's very challenging and we miss this a lot, as it happens. Jen: And it's a high burnout career. Bryan: Oh, totally, as we know. Jen: Yes. That chronic stress, chronic fatigue takes a toll on you, both mentally and physically, for not just leaders but for everyone, but definitely leaders probably experience it the most because they're also trying to manage people that are experience it. You can see where the domino effect would happen. Bryan: We've talked before about the National Preparedness Leadership program at Harvard. Jen: Yes. Bryan: And their idea of meta-leadership through a crisis situation, the emergency situation. I remember that a big part of what we learned going through that program and a big part of their research is the psychology of being that leader in the critical moment and how do you make the decisions and what have you. But the question that Dr. Lenny Marcus would always ask, when he would get in the room and ... So there you are at Deep Water Horizon and you've got admiral Thad Allen from the Coast Guard is now the incident commander and calling the shots is, when they're in private: How are you doing? How are you feeling about this? I just saw you do X, Y, Z. Why did you make those decisions? It always came back to: How are you feeling? What are you thinking about emotionally as a leader as you're going through that? Those things are hard to manage through. Jen: Yeah. And what do you need? Bryan: What do you need? Jen: Leaders need time off too. Bryan: What do you need as a leader? Jen: Yeah. Bryan: I think back to that situation in 2010 with the ... That was a violent crime with the employee that was killed. That was my first one managing something like that at that scale and even though I was an experienced crisis manager, I had never done that. I remember coming off the first conference call with the team down there that had just gone through this and lost one of their own and we're trying to manage through the details and then calling a peer of mine that used to be in this job and just went: Okay, I have to ... I've got to walk you through what I'm thinking and what I want to do, but can I talk to you about how I feel for a minute because I'm trying to figure out how to process this. Jen: Yeah. Bryan: I think we often don't think about doing that and we don't think about or have somebody that we can do that with, that understands what you're going through. It's not the same as going home and having this conversation with your spouse, unless you're me and we work in the same field. Jen: That's true. Bryan: You can't just go to the random friend and say: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah because they're not in that same ... They've never been in your shoes, they don't really understand that. I think it's important to find people that you can have that conversation with. Jen: Yeah. That's where I go back to some of my old buddies that I used to work with because they've been through stressful situations too, so you really lean on each other when that happens. Bryan: One of the more moving things for me in the last hurricane season that was so big, and this goes back to the National Preparedness Leadership, the NPLI program at Harvard. There was about 800 and some alumni of the program and the faculty would send us updates during major situations because they go out and deploy and they're walking with us. They sent a pretty heartfelt note one day about halfway through Hurricane Maria that said: Here's some things we're seeing and thinking about ... But it ended with: Look, we know what it's like to be at the tip of the spear as leading through these situations and that it's important to have somebody to talk to. If you don't have anybody to talk to, call us. Here's the phone number. Promise not to make you a research subject, but call us or call somebody in the program that you know, or don't know. I think we could all do that for each other. It's important to do that, but I think the bigger challenge is recognizing as a leader that you're not going to be immune to the stress and you're going to need to find ways to deal with this and seek help with this where necessary as it starts to impact you. Jen: I think what's good in this day and age, we have so many tools out there and there's so much more education and knowledge around this than there once was. Things like meditation and yoga that used to get kind of balked at but they're actually now ... My doctor actually recommends meditation now and this is well-studied stuff, but some of the preventative things that you can do. We also know, and there's been a lot of testing around this, that to reduce the effects of stress and fatigue as these things happen are the self-imposed stressors. Drugs, alcohol although you don't want to be a Drunk Driver, exhaustion, tobacco and ... Bryan: Too much coffee. Jen: Hypoglycemia. Exactly. All of these things can really amplify the effects of stress. Staying away from the excessive amounts of caffeine, which is laughable because I don't know any crisis manager ... Bryan: That is not addicted to coffee. Jen: ... That does not drink copious amounts of coffee. Bryan: Totally. Jen: And then often times at the end of the day, enjoying a beer after the effects of things. But keeping in mind that anything in moderation is okay, but once you've gone to the excessive amounts, no good. Exhaustion is huge. Getting enough rest before incidents happen and then also during the incident you have to take a break, you have to take a step away. Bryan: We forget about this because there's usually somebody in charge. There's an incident commander, there's ... You're the city emergency management director, you're the director of crisis management for a company, but that does not mean that you have to be there all the time because it will dull your ability to make decisions and deal with stress. Jen: Right. Exactly. Bryan: You've got to go home and you have to let somebody else run the thing until tomorrow or whenever. Jen: Exactly. Yeah. Tobacco, I mean need I say more? Hypoglycemia. Okay, again, I don't know an emergency manager out there that can't enjoy a good piece of pizza during an incident, even if it means you're shoving food in your mouth in between trying to get stuff done. It's really important that you're taking care of yourself one way or another. Bryan: Right. Jen: It doesn't have to be pizza, but ... Bryan: Our key message is here: As a part of your recovery, short- and long-term recovery following that immediate response is: Determine the need to bring in assistance to help with the team, understand the signs of stress, particularly post-traumatic stress and what that means and can look like. Make it a priority to touch base with the team as a leader and encourage others to do so to really just check in and just ask folks if they're okay, if there's anything they want to talk about or is there anything you can do to help them through that. You'd be surprised sometimes, I think, at the answers again. Jen: Agree. Make sure some of this is a part of your planning process, let's not forget that. Bryan: Right. And get the vendor lined up. Jen: Yes, exactly. Bryan: And then for yourself, you're not immune. We highly encourage you to find a partner in the field, a peer at another company, the person that held your job before you, or call us, we'd be happy to talk. Jen: Absolutely. Bryan: Best of luck.

In today's episode, we help a truck driver start an online business. FULL TRANSCRIPT Jocelyn: Hey, y'all. On today's podcast, we help a truck driver start an online business. Shane: Welcome to the Flipped Lifestyle Podcast where life always comes before work. We're your host, Shane and Jocelyn Sams. We're a real family that figured out how to make our entire living online, and now we help other families do the same. Are you ready to flip your life? All right, lets get started. Shane: What's going on everybody? Welcome back to the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. It is great to be back with you again today. We are super excited to have another member of the Flip Your Life community on the show, so that we can help them find their idea, start, build, and grow their own online business, just like we have, and just like hundreds of other people have in the Flip Your Life community. Shane: Super excited to welcome our guest today, Bryan Goodwin. Bryan, welcome to the Flipped Lifestyle Podcast. Bryan: Hey guys. I appreciate y'all having me on here today. Shane: I think this is a first Bryan because ... we're going to get into your story in just a second. Bryan is a truck driver, and we are actually recording this podcast, he is in his truck on the side of the road right now. Right? Jocelyn: Not driving. Shane: Not driving, he's not driving, but this is the first time I think anyone has ever recorded a podcast with us inside of a semi truck, so I'm pretty excited about that. Bryan: Well, actually I've heard just about all y'all's episodes, so its ... I think yeah the first one y'all had someone that was a truck driver or is a truck driver. No, there's a truck driver in the forums. Shane: That's right. There is. There is. I remember that podcast, but they were not actually in their truck. Bryan: Yeah, they weren't actually in the truck. Shane: That's where you took it to the next level, Bryan. You took it to the next level. Bryan: Glad I could do that. Jocelyn: I'm just curious. I know you spend a lot of time on the road. I'm sure that you listen to a lot of different stuff, but how did you discover us, and have you listened to everything? Bryan: How I actually found you, I'm not a hundred percent. I believe what happened is I was just looking for a business podcast. I was looking for some more information on businesses, because I listen to the (inaudible) and things like that. Y'all's came up, and so I decided let's give them a try, started listening and, I don't know, got all the way up to one particular episode, and I was like, "All right. Well, they've got me pretty much sold. I've got this, but I want to see what else I can learn," so I jumped all the way back and started with episode one, which I actually had to manually download the first 30 because y'all had already cleared the 300 mark- Shane: Right. Bryan: -by that time, so I had to manually download the first 30 and then go from 30 all the way up to what I had listened to at that time. Shane: Love it. Bryan: I've listened to a whole lot of Shane and Jocelyn Sams. Jocelyn: Bless your heart. Shane: Right, bless your heart, man. I know we had you hooked here because I've heard you say y'all about five times, and as soon as you heard that hey y'all at the beginning of the show, you're like, "Wait a minute." Bryan: Oh, yeah. Shane: These are my people. These are my peeps. I've found my people. Jocelyn: Yeah, so I was curious about that because I know you spend a lot of time driving, and you probably spend a lot of time listening. Shane: Well, I'm glad that we have kept you company on many miles of road. Bryan: Yep. Shane: Hopefully, we can help you take everything to the next level, what you're doing. Maybe someday we'll get you off the road. Bryan: Well, that's the objective. Jocelyn: All right, so you are a driver right now, and tell us just a little bit more about your life, about your background, and then we'll get into more of the business side. Bryan: Okay. I've been driving truck for about 11 years now. I drive for the oil field. I actually just hauled what's called frack sand from quarries and stuff like that and take them out to where they do the hydraulic fracking at, and they use the sand actually as a means to prop the cracks and the rock up. I won't go into the details on what fracking is because that just goes completely off rails, but- Shane: We've been known to go off the rails a little bit here on the show, man. That's okay. Bryan: So- Jocelyn: This is all Greek to me. I have no idea what all this means. Bryan: Yeah- Shane: Jocelyn, I just heard sand and I was like, "Sweet. Sand. Okay." Jocelyn: Okay, I can call it that. Shane: There's a big truck of sand. Bryan's at the wheel. Here we go. Bryan: Yeah, so the issue that I run into is that I'm subjected to the swings in the market, so if oil fields, natural gas, and oil prices are getting really high, then yeah I get to have steak and go out and have fun, but if they fall through the floor, I'm eating Cheerios out of a tinfoil bowl. There's a lot of feasts and a lot of famine, and you don't really know when one is going to come upon you, and when the other one's going to leave, so just the swings, and I'm not enjoying the trucking life anymore. Bryan: I've always wanted to get myself out of the truck after about, I don't know, probably about seven years of it. That's when I really started diving into podcasts and started trying to come up with different ideas. I've ran podcasts and blogs for probably about 10 of those years, but just I'm to the point now to where it's like, "All right. I've got to start trying something. I've played at poking the bear a bit. Now, let's go ahead and let's wrestle the guy down to the ground." Jocelyn: Yeah, exactly. Well, tell me about your driving? Do you drive for away? Is it mostly more locally? I know you live in Oklahoma, right? Bryan: Right. It's mostly just regional. There's been a couple times where we've had to go grab sand at some really odd places, all the way up from Oklahoma all the way to Pennsylvania to pick up a load- Shane: Whoa. Bryan: -get halfway ... yeah- Shane: My gosh. Bryan: -go and get halfway back for the oil company that we were hauling for to go, "Yeah. That sand you got, nevermind. We don't need it. Go take it back." Shane: Oh my Go-. I think you just also set the record for the longest commute of anyone who's been on the show. I got this 24 hour commute, guys, and I'd really like to show you...so maybe this aha business thing can open some doors for me. Bryan: Open some doors, exactly. So, it was - but most of the time it's just around the western Oklahoma area, western Texas, Texas panhandle area, may go up into Kansas just a little bit, but most of it's Oklahoma. Shane: Just a lot of moving down the road, man. Bryan: Yes, sir. Shane: Lot of lonely times on the road, right? Bryan: Yep, lot of I-40. Jocelyn: All right, so you've been doing this driving thing for quite awhile. You decided, okay this is not the life that I want long term. So tell us a little bit about how you decided to start something online, and what it is that you're doing. Bryan: All right. Started out - one of the podcasts I listen to is Late Night Internet Marketing, and Mark Mason is the host there. And he had talked about how he was doing drop ship. I was like all right, hey...cause I'd kind of heard about it and I'd wondered how do you get into drop shipping, thinking that would be better than having a room in the back packed full of inventory. Shane: Let me explain what drop shipping is, because some listeners might not know. Drop shipping is basically where you are responsible for selling goods, but they're kept at another location. So if you fulfill - you may have a big inventory that's kept at a factory, and you just sell it online - the order goes to the factory, or the warehouse or whatever, they send it out. You're just responsible for basically selling it. You buy the goods, they're kept somewhere else, they're shipped from somewhere else, and so you never touch the stuff, you're just responsible for the marketing, and the sales, and getting it actually ordered by people. Bryan: Precisely. And so I thought, that would be a great idea. It's really easy to get it all set up. So I went over to one of the little online store areas. You can set one up for about 30 bucks a month, and tried that out, and just through 3-6 months worth of 30 dollar payments out the window. And didn't make sale. But, I liked what the premise was about, but just because I was focusing more on the guy lifestyle - just being the guy. That's kind of what I've always... Shane: What kind of products were they, that you were trying to sell? Bryan: Well, they were anything from some of the unique whiskey glasses and decanters. And so you had kind of like the smoky bar room vibe to it. Shane: Gotcha. Stereotypical man stuff. Bryan: Yeah, stereotypical is the best way to put it, yes sir. Stereotypical man stuff that was neat looking - wasn't just a normal glass, it was like a glass looked like it was kind of twisted - things like that. Bryan: Anyhow, went from that and just realized I wasn't making any money, wasn't making any sales. The closest I'd get - the software that was in the background would say that the sale was done in a very sketchy way, and so it was probably a stolen credit card, so I was like all right, I'm not going to set here and put myself at risk and be on the hook for a bad sale. Shane: Right. Bryan: So I went ahead and I decided I'll ditch that and go back into what I really like to do. I like to write, I like to blog, like to write. And just kind of start go blog and do affiliate marketing, things like that. And that's where Relaxed Male come from. And it's just kind of progressed, and every time I progress a little bit, about once a year it, seems like I'll get a little more focused, and a little more focused. So it was guys lifestyle, and I was like, no, let's talk about guys and getting them leadership and keeping the outdoor element to it, because I think getting people outside and being outdoors and stuff like that is really important for people as a whole. And for men more in particular. Bryan: And so I've gotten down to where now it's men's coaching. Men's outdoor coaching is what I'm focusing into. Shane: I love this journey, okay. Cause you said some really interesting things there. Shane: One, just like, to combat stereotypes a little bit. So, since we're stereotypically talking about men's stuff we're selling, let's combat some stereotypes. You wouldn't think, you know, you talk to a truck driver - we all have this Americana image of a good 'ol truck driver driving down the road, a manly man, working with his hands and all this stuff. But you're like, I'm a truck driver, and I love to write. I like that. It's like, I thought about what I really like to do, and I was waiting for you to be like, fix diesel engines, or something like that. But you're like, I just love to write. And I just want to blog. Shane: But it's so funny, we live in this weird world now where that is true. We all are a weird conglomerate of interests now, because of the internet, because of online, because of the way the world works now. And it's like, yeah man, a truck driver can love to blog, and he can get his message out there. And this driver - you know, you probably have a lot of anxiety about meeting deadlines and stress getting the sand where it needs to be, and there's people yelling all this stuff. I'm like, man...you just go home on the weekends, you're like, I'm getting out, I'm going outside, going for a hike. I'm going to hunt, fish, whatever you do. You do something outside to relax. You've learned how to manage this crazy lifestyle of driving to Pennsylvania from Oklahoma every once in awhile, right? Bryan: Right. Shane: And you've learned how to manage this, and now you want to mentor other men how to do this, right? Bryan: Right. Jocelyn: And I think it makes a lot of sense, I mean, there's also a lot of family stress I would imagine that goes along with this type of job, too. Shane: Yeah, just being away from everybody and stuff like that. Bryan: Oh yeah. That's one of the big things about in oil field, is you're on call. It's not a - it's Monday morning, it's time to hop in the truck and go drive around. It's all right, it's time to head out and it's 11 o'clock at night and they're like - hey one trucking company messed up so they're needing some loads. So I need you and about five other guys to hop in those trucks and head out to go grab some sand. Bryan: So, it was always...it was kind of a running joke at the company - which is an amazing company, I'm not disparaging them in the least, because the company I would drive for, they're great folks. But, there was more than one time where I would be two hours down the road going to the city, and I would get a call just as I crossed into the city limits, and they'd be like, we need you to go ahead and go on a run. And it was like, oh man, all right, I'll be there in two - I'll be back in about two hours. Shane: Crazy, man. Bryan: Cause we'd sat there for two days beforehand with nothing, so it was like, all right, let's get some errands run. Shane: But the crazy thing is though, Bryan, this is the life that a lot of people live, and there's millions of truck drivers. There's millions of people that are on call. Everybody from truck drivers to doctors. And that disruptive, not being able to plan things ahead lifestyle can make you feel out of control. Shane: I'm sure there's a lot of people listening right now, you don't feel like you have control of your schedule. You feel like you're at the whim of the markets and everybody else. And that's just - the world works - we all got to grind, we all got to do things. We all have to meet expectations of others and ourselves. And managing the anxiety of that, managing the stress of that is really half the battle toward living like a flipped lifestyle. Shane: We've talked a lot about this lately. I don't want to pigeon-hole the flipped lifestyle into totally 100% you've quit your job, you're making money with digital products, whatever. Jocelyn: Life is good. Shane: Yeah, life is good. That's not what it is. It's more like being able to create a life where you feel in control. That's the flipped lifestyle. If you could just manage your anxiety and stress, that might be the first step of hey, I've got joy back in my life to enjoy what I'm doing now, and then I can do something else later too, and change what I'm doing. Shane: So, I think it's a super worthy mission, and I think it's an amazing idea. I love that you're - I can just picture you driving down the road in your semi-truck, but your wheels - you listen to a podcast and you just turn it off, sitting in silence thinking about your next blog post. For some reason, that makes me really gloriously happy. That's awesome. Jocelyn: Your website is relaxedmale.com Shane: Which is a great two-word domain name, by the way. Jocelyn: And you've tried a couple different things on this, right? So let's talk a little bit about that. Bryan: I've tried a couple different things. First off, like I said, I was doing affiliates and realized it didn't work. So, focused in on more of a service, just because I had the epiphany that I wanted to help people. And, I've done that for - every since I was little - I would try to find a way of helping people out. So, naturally wanted to start doing coaching, so that's where the...I started getting into how to coach, and wanted to run a blog post about how to help guys through the different challenges that they're running into through today's society. Bryan: A lot of the posts are maybe a little on the touchy-feely side, but at the same time there's also a touch of woo-woo into it, so there's a method to it, and I've been trying to kind of use the blog as a means to map out a good solution. And I've got couple different ways that I like to take that. Shane: Cool. I pictured it's like, Bryan Goodwin, the touchy-feely truck driver. I just pictured...which could actually be totally misinterpreted in a terrible way. No, we're not going to call you the touchy-feely truck driver. I do not want to do that, okay. I do not want to go there. But, I think we all can just be friends here and know what we mean, okay? Jocelyn: Let's steer clear of that. Shane: Let's steer clear of the touchy-feely... Bryan: Touchy-feeling truck driver. Shane: I think Relaxed Male is a much better choice of a domain name than the Touchy-Feely Truck Driver. Yeah, that might be a terrible made-for-TV movie someday... Shane: I love your website. I'm looking at your website. You're doing a lot of things great. You've got a great - you're website at the top says Reconnecting Leaders to Nature - I want to talk about that in a little bit. Love your logo, it's a stick man leaning back on a mountain like he's in a hammock though. That's pretty genius, and it looks amazing. And then all your imagery is very good, it's manly, you have this picture of this tent that's by this campfire, by this lake, with mountains...it's like someone pulled over their truck in Colorado and slept under the stars. You know what I'm saying? Bryan: Right. Shane: And you've got this big picture of a chain, and your writing is very good, it's very plain spoken. It sounds like you. I love how you started your About page with "You know, this was going to be an online store for guys. I was going to try some drop shipping. Then, as I was writing the blog post, the store fell away and I closed it." I love how decisive that is. "The store was not important. I wanted to talk about the adventure of being a guy." And then you just go in to talking about how - basically what I just said - your writing is very good, very, very good. Is that plain English, Jocelyn? Very good, or should I say you write well. Jocelyn: Yes, either way works. Shane: Either way would be correct? Okay. All right. I'm just making sure all the grammar police aren't out there pulling me over. Ya'll write good, you write real good, man. You know what I mean? Bryan: You're all right. Shane: We're all right, we're all right. Shane: Your website's beautiful, you write well, you've got awesome imagery. Your doing a lot of things right, and I can see how this has evolved by just sitting here and looking at your site. You've got a pop up opt in and a hero bar at the top way for them to opt in. Have you been able to collect some emails and stuff like that? Bryan: No, my email list is very hard-earned, and I've actually had two new ones sign up just within a couple weeks. Shane: Awesome man, those are real humans, man. Everyone counts. You know what I mean? Bryan: But, I avoid like the plague to say I have just X-number of opt ins, because I think I have a low number, but I mentioned something about it on the blog and something about just visits, and people were like well, that's better than what I'm getting, so... Shane: How much traffic do you get right now? Bryan: This month here, apparently I've done something correct, because I'm up to about 10-30 people a day visiting. Shane: I'll tell you what you did correct, you joined the Flipped Lifestyle community, man. You've went into the Flip Your Life community and you said I'm doing something right around here, and everybody's like, I'm paying attention. So they showed up, right? That's great. That's good for 30 or 40 emails a month if you do it right. Shane: All right, so you've got the blog, you've got some direction. You've got some opt ins and things like that. Let's talk about how we're going to grow this thing. Jocelyn: All right, so you have the website, you're no longer selling items that are being drop shipped, and I'm just kind of looking at it here - I don't really see any form of monetization right now, would that be accurate? Bryan: No, there is some up at the top where you'll see coaching. Coaching the Mastermind are the monetization areas. Shane: Oh, okay I see it. Jocelyn: Okay, I gotcha. Shane: There's buttons below the fold, so we need to get those above the fold for sure. Bryan: Okay, there's also the...so I need to work on. Jocelyn: I see, I see the menu bar. Shane: I see the menu bar now, I see it. Yep. It's just kind of hidden a little bit. Bryan: Okay. Shane: It's not prominent, basically. Jocelyn: Okay. Shane: But that's okay. Jocelyn: So, we have that. What is holding you back right now? Shane: What kind of internal fears or doubts, or maybe an external obstacle, like technically challenges or something...what's kind of keeping you from moving forward. Because it looks like you're doing a lot of things right, so what's stopping you? Bryan: I have where I want to be. I have a vision of how I want Relaxed Male to look. I want to be able to not have grand conference, but you know you have, maybe a yearly gathering of some of the guys who are able to get together, and we go out to do a week long camping expedition out in the middle of the Grand Teton or something like that. I have this vision of that, but I'm not exactly sure how to progress into that - to get on the right road to go to that dream. I see coaching and masterminds as kind of a way to get the ball rolling, but I'm not 100% sure if that's really the best way. Bryan: Right now, I feel like I'm just trying, but I'm just not making any headway. I don't know if it's just me being impatient or what. But that's precisely what I'm feeling - I've been hammering at this for totally the blog is almost two years old. Which, everything I've heard and read and understand about blogs, I'm just right there at that point where a lot of times you start building critical mass and everything takes off out of nowhere. But I've also done blogs that lasted four years and stayed around 10-15 visitors a day. Bryan: So I don't know if I'm just always, am I focusing too much on the visitors? Am I too obsessed with my numbers and just keep chipping away and eventually something's going to break and I'm going to all of a sudden have people paying attention, or what. Shane: Yeah. Bryan: Am I making myself any more clear, or am I about as clear as mud? Shane: No listen, I guarantee you that there are thousands of people listening to this podcast right now in their cars, on treadmills, or wherever they're at, and they're shaking their head like that's totally me. Right? That's part of the journey. Shane: There's four phases of entrepreneurship. Jocelyn and I call it the Flipped Life cycle. Shane: So, at first you become a yearner. You yearn for more. You want more, you know there's something else. It's almost like you're out on a hike and you're standing on one side of the mountain. And you know there's something cool on the other side of that mountain. You yearn for it, but you don't really do it. Shane: So then you learn. You start learning about online business. You start learning about all the things that go, right? You start learning about how to start a blog, how to do these things. And it's kind of like learning the trail that takes you to the top of that mountain to see what's on the other side. Jocelyn: And a lot of people never get past that. Shane: That's exactly right. And then what happens is you move, you shift, and you actually go on the trail. You start walking, right? And this is where you want to go become an earner. You want to take all these things you learned, take action on them, and go earn some money, right? Shane: But before that is the grind. You got to sweat, you got to hump it, you got to pull it up, you got to climb the mountain. But then here's what freaks people out...they grind for all this time, they get to the top of the trail that they learned about, they look over, and they realize that there's a huge valley with no trail, and they got to get to the mountain top on the other side, right? Shane: And that's where a lot of people quit. And that's kind of where you are right now. You went to the top of the mountain. You're getting traffic, you're getting some emails, you're getting some traction. You're idea is kind of clarifying into some general concept into what you want it to be, and then you realize ah crap, there's still a lot of work left to do. You know what I mean? Bryan: Yes. Shane: But that's kind of what happens. You have to go through the grind, and then there is a tipping point where you start earning money. And then everything just starts burning it up. You figure it out. Right? Bryan: Okay. Shane: Now, so that's kind of like the path. And you're kind of at the edge of the grind. You're kind of coming out of it like, man if I just could put this together, I think there - it's like a puzzle that you've poured out. You see all the pieces, there's a picture on the box, and you're just not sure where the corners are yet. Right? Bryan: Right, okay. Shane: And that's where a lot people are. And what we want to do is we want to get you to the next level. So I think the best use of our time here is probably clarifying this idea, right? We've got to take the fuzzy picture, and we've got to turn the knob, and we've got to bring it into focus. Okay? Shane: So, let's talk about really the mission of Relaxed Male first. I think you're onto something here about a mentorship and a coaching program. I know a lot of people that do this really well. There's a guy named Aaron Walker. His brand is called A View From the Top. Have you ever heard Aaron? Bryan: Oh yes, Aaron's...Big A. Shane: Big A, man. Jocelyn: Yep. Shane loves Big A. Shane: I love Big A. I've met the guy, and I have some friends who hang out with him. Gosh, what a genuine soul and human being. He's got this Facebook series. And every morning he goes for a walk, and he goes, What's going on, it's Big A coming to you live from the National [inaudible 00:25:33]. Right, it's hilarious. Shane: But anyway, but I know a lot of men that are in his mastermind. He's got a mastermind that's called Iron Sharpens Iron. And he just wanted to take his mentorship to these people. And it's an expensive mastermind, but they do trips like this. But they don't do hiking - they meet at a hotel or something. It's a different vibe than what you're doing, but it's definitely taking your life experience, finding guys that need it, and a lot of guys need this. Reconnect with nature, get rid of this anxiety from your job, let me show you how - listen to how stressful my job is, and I figured it out, so I can totally help you figure it out. So, you're more than qualified and worthy to do this. Shane: But I want to talk to you about your mission. I think your mission is a little too broad. Bryan: Okay. Shane: Relaxed Male is fine. That's a good domain name, we can use that. But it says Reconnecting Leaders to Nature, okay? Bryan: Right. Shane: And I think that's influenced maybe from hearing other podcasts and a lot of people do stuff like that, like leadership and whatever. Jocelyn: It sounds nice. Shane: It sounds nice, but it's so - what is a leader? Who are you really talking to? I'm just wondering if you wouldn't reconnect now. Imagine if this said - let's go super hyper-specific and broaden back out - what if it said Reconnecting Truck Drivers to Nature? Right? You are a truck driver. What if every truck driver in America listened to your podcast or read your blog at the truck stop or - there's millions of truck drivers out there, and they're probably as stressed out as you were until you figured out dang man, if I just go out and camp for a few days, I feel so much better about that drive to Pennsylvania. You know what I mean? Bryan: Okay. Shane: And so maybe it's just a tightening of the message to draw in super high quality traffic. You can get 30 hits a day on a blog, but if every one of them joined your list because they're targeted, you're getting 30 emails a day. So it's not about the bulk of traffic, it's about the quality of traffic. And I could even see maybe it expanding out to more like reconnecting blue collar workers to nature. Right, guys that are out there - these are manly men who are - what about the mechanic that's working on the trucks? What about the guys on the oil field that are taking the sand out, putting it where it needs to go? Shane: I think if you could just focus in a little tighter, you're going to have a better chance of resonating.It's not about getting attention. It's about resonating with the people who are paying attention. Jocelyn: Because right now, when I look at your website, just on first glance, it reminds me of some type of yoga retreat or something. And I don't feel like that's who you are. Shane: Yeah, right. It's more like being the meditative quality of being in the tent. It's not about sitting around going Wohhmm with yoga mats on the side of the lake right? Jocelyn: So I think where we are right now, is you have to decide who am I and what problem am I solving for people in a unique way? And that's what your site needs to say, and that's where your content needs to go. Shane: And you also have to create competitive advantage with your idea. Take the Flipped Lifestyle podcast. When we were thinking about the Flipped Lifestyle podcast, we started looking at other podcasts and saying, well what are these other guru people doing, right? We know we can teach this, we've taught people in real life...how can we be different? Okay? Bryan: Right. Shane: And how can we resonate? Well, the first thing we said was we've got to both be on the podcast. There's nobody else that's a husband and wife team doing what we're doing, right? Or at least not doing it as good as we can do it, okay? So that was one differentiator. And then we said let's exclude solo-preneur, single people, 20-something millennials running around Thailand on 6 bucks a day. We don't want to talk to them. We want to talk to families, we want talk to - we can talk to single people, but we want them to have kids. We can talk to married people, but we want them to have kids. And we decided that we would talk to families, we would talk to adults who were raising children, who wanted to go out and start their own online business, right? Shane: We would talk to people who had real responsibilities, like keeping other people alive and making in a real 9-5 job. Bryan: Right. Shane: So if you can think what's my unfair advantage? I've been in a truck for 11 years. Who's a truck driver going to listen to? Another truck driver or some random other person who's trying to tell them to connect with nature? Right? Bryan: Right. Shane: Who's the guy working on the oil fields going to listen to? A guy that understands what he's dealing with? Your anxiety is different than our anxiety, right? Bryan: Right. Shane: So if you can really hone in and just...I'd love to see a picture of you on the About page in your truck - like someone takes a picture of you leaning out the window. And be like, hi I'm Bryan, I'm a truck driver, I understand you. Let's go on a hike. Right? When a guy sees that, he wants to opt in, right? Because that dude gets me. Shane: I think back when the...when I was looking for somebody to follow, I looked at a bunch of gurus. I ran through the Ravenscrafts and the Brian Masons and the Timothy Ferris's and Gary Vaynerchuck's and all this. But I connected with Pat Flynn of The Smart Passive Income podcast, for one reason, and one reason only. When I went to his blog, at the very top above the fold, was a picture of him holding his son who was the same age as mine. I didn't know Pat Flynn from Adam. I didn't know what he was talking about. I didn't know what his podcast was about. But I did know this: he had a son, and he had the same concerns I did about that little boy. And I needed to go and listen to him, right? Bryan: Right. Shane: So, I think that's what you're too broad right now is. It's just too leadership and male. I get it, it's every man who could ever possibly lead anyone. But that's not where we got to be at. Does that make sense? Jocelyn: Yeah. And we've said if you're targeting everyone you target no one. Bryan: No one. Yeah. All right. And so, I can see. Is blue collar at this moment still too broad? Shane: Not necessarily. Usually it works better when you start really targeted. Truck driver's still pretty narrow. You don't want to also exclude people, right? Blue collar makes sense because you could say something like the blue collar man has a different kind of stress, a different type of anxiety than business people do. You know, we're out and we're doing physical things that could kill us. You know what I'm saying? We're risking our lives every day to make industry move, right? When I pull the lever on that thing of sand, if I'm in the way, whatever. If you're working on a car, you could break your hand or cut yourself, or whatever. You're constantly on call, you never know when you're going to be needed. There's just a different way to present that, but a lot of blue collar people can totally relate to that. Shane: Like a mechanic, from an oil field worker, from a truck driver, from a logger, from a whatever is going to be able to understand what you're talking about. Jocelyn: And just remember that you don't have to necessarily use that in your language. And what I mean by that is, Shane and I, on our website, we don't say we only target families and people with children. We don't explicitly say that, we just put pictures of ourselves with our kids. Do people follow us who don't have kids? Yeah. And that's okay. But, in our minds, we're marketing to the people who are people - parents - with children. Shane: Yeah, and you could also say like - it says Reconnecting Leaders to Nature. That's cool, but what if it just said - what if it said this: The Relaxed Male. Reconnecting Working Men to Nature. Jocelyn: Yes. And that's what I was going to say is that you can use your language to allude to that without explicitly saying that, if that makes sense. Shane: Any person that's working could consider themselves a working man. But we all know that stereotypically, when you hear about a working man, you're talking about a blue collared guy going out and using his hands and doing stuff like that, right? Bryan: Right. Okay. Jocelyn: So does that make sense and fit the direction you think you're going? Bryan: Yes, it helps out tremendously. I had a little adjustment made last week with the mastermind group that I'm with. They were pointing out that I was being even more broad with one of the lead magnets, one of the opt in forms that I had on the site. I wasn't even mentioning men, it was self-coaching tools for a better life. And it's like, what does that even mean really, and who's that supposed to really attract to. So, they were like, well, you're about guys so why don't you start incorporating guys into that. So from here, yeah, I can see just nudge that down even granular. Shane: Yeah, right here it says: 14 of the Best Morning Routines. And it's just a name and thing, right? Bryan: Right. Shane: But what if that said - forget 14 - what if it said The Best Morning Routine For Working Men. No way they don't know it's them. You know what I'm saying? Shane: And you got this other opt in, I'm looking through your site, and it says Get Four Self-Coaching Tools to Beat Anxiety. What if that said Working Men Experience a Different Kind of Anxiety...and then the sub-heading said Get Four Self-Coaching Tools to Help the Working Man Beat Anxiety, or something like that. Bryan: Oh okay. Shane: You know what I'm saying? We can grammarize this is a little bit better later on. Right now we're just trying to get the mud on the wall. So. And your pictures. On this picture. I'm looking at your above the fold hero image. It's this beautiful picture of a tent sitting on a side of a lake looking down into a valley. I don't even know where that is. But it's gorgeous. Shane: But what if that was actually a truck driving down the road... Jocelyn: This needs to be...the About page needs to be a picture of you driving your truck. Shane: For sure. And even your front images, if it was like a truck - a huge open cinematography spread of a truck going down the road, but it was driving through the mountain of Colorado. So kind of tied in this image of truckery and cars and going down the road, but into nature or something like that. There's just a... Shane: And then instead of this picture of the tent that you've got on one scroll down, that could be a picture of people working in an oil field. And we could - about 50% of your images are nature, and about 50% of them are what we would consider blue collar jobs. Bryan: Okay. Shane: Truckers, miners, whatever. Bryan: Okay, got you there, yeah. Shane: And imagine then how much easier it would be to sell this thing. Hey guys, I'm Bryan. I'm a working man. I drive a truck. I know what you go through on a daily basis. I've been doing this for over a decade, and I know that you're job, while it's paying the bills and you're taking care of your family, you're doing a great job, but you're stressed, you've got a lot of anxiety. You're having trouble managing your working job and your life with your family. Well, I've started mentoring people in the Relaxed Male Coaching program, whatever...and I'm going to tell you how, on a daily basis, to get rid of the anxiety, get rid of all that stress, and I'm going to make sure that, not only can you go do your job that you love to do, but you can come home and be with your family. You can come home and go out into nature and be there with yourself so that you're a balanced working man, or something like that. Shane: That'd be an awesome name for it - The Balanced Working Man, or something like that. Have a guy standing up on top of an oil rig or something like that. But by niching down and really communicating who you're talking to, your blog posts are going to get more traffic. Those posts are going to get more opt ins, and you're going to have a much clearer picture of what you want to teach people. Does that makes sense? Bryan: I'm seeing that, yes sir. Shane: Does that clarify maybe how you could actually even teach your mentors in your coaching program? Bryan: I think it helps at least give me a better direction on how to point them to the...I realize how scattered I am with the information, and I'm just kind of talking too broad of an audience. So I definitely see where, if I was to just take that and just squeeze it down to even blue collared, ah, heck I could even do for the oil fields. I mean that would... Shane: Oh, that's a huge industry. Natural gas, oil, truck. That's the truckers, the drillers, the unloaders, the loaders, everybody. Jocelyn: I can even... Bryan: Precisely. Jocelyn: ...see this maybe going into - you could sell to corporate. To companies. Shane: Oh gosh, that would be huge. Make a deal with a company. Jocelyn: Yeah, maybe they want their workers to have a better quality of life, and you could market to them. Shane: Oh wow, that's really good. Really, really good. Bryan: Okay. Jocelyn: Okay Bryan, I think some really good stuff has come out of this conversation today, and I can't wait to see where you take this. Jocelyn: We always ask our guests before we go what is one thing that you plan to do in the next day or so based on what we talked about on this call. Bryan: Well, that is definitely going to be niching all the way down. I think I'm either going to focus in on the oil field angle a lot more. Get the language changed, and start just making sure that I have that particular guy in mind whenever I start re-writing some of the sales pages and things like that. Shane: And also, as you're - you've got coaching and mentoring down there - you could really focus hard on your product. Because it'll help you when you blog. If you know what that coaching and program's going to look like and you know what that happens, you know what you're pointing your stuff to to get something sold, it's going to make it a lot easier to write opt-ins, a lot easier to write blog posts, and it's going to make a lot of difference. Okay? Bryan: Okay. Shane: All right guys, that wraps up another great conversation with one of our Flip Your Life community members. It is awesome to see someone get focused on their idea, because with great focus on your idea, that's what leads to an awesome product. That's what leads to an amazing platform, and that's what leads to making money online and replacing your income so that you can quit your job and live the life you want. Shane: We would love to help you inside of our Flip Your Life community. All you have to do learn more about the community is go to flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife. You can read about all the amazing courses that we have inside to guide you through the process of starting, building, and growing your own online business. You can check out all of the amazing forums with our community of hundreds of family-focused entrepreneurs from around the world to rally around you and support you in your dreams. And of course, me and Jocelyn will be in there right with you all along the way. Shane: So go to flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife and check out the community today. Shane: We would also love to meet you live and in person in Lexington, Kentucky on September 19-21 at Flip Your Life Live. This is our Flip Your Life family reunion. It is our conference that we hold for all of our listeners of the Flipped Lifestyle podcast, and everybody that's a part of our Flip Your Life community. We would love to see you in Lexington, and you can get your ticket now at flippedlifestyle.com/live - that's L-I-V-E. Shane: But you want to hurry, because we are almost sold out and tickets will not be sold after August 30th. So you've got to get your ticket right now if you're going to get one. We only have a few left. It's in the teens, guys. Those seats are going to fill up, and we're not adding anymore chairs inside of the venue. Shane: And guess what? We are not doing this event in 2020. This is your last chance to come to Flip Your Life Live, the big conference that we've been holding for the past couple of years for our Flip Your Life community and Flipped Lifestyle podcast listeners. So go to flippedlifestyle/live right now so that you can get your tickets before they sell out. Shane: All right guys, that is all the time that we have for today. But before we go, we're super excited because Bryan has a Bible verse that he wants to share with you guys. Jocelyn and I get a lot of our inspiration and motivation from the Bible for our business and our life, and we love it when our guests have a verse that they want to share with everybody. So Bryan, take it away. Bryan: All right, my Bible verse is Isaiah 41:10 and it reads: So do not fear, for I am with you. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. Bryan: Just completely dig that verse, because if you're ever feeling overwhelmed, you know that you don't have to live a life in fear. And fear is one of the big things that I like to talk about on my site itself, but there's always something you can use from God - He will actually help you out - you don't have to live a life of fear and worry that you're going to mess something up, because God's there to actually help you out. Shane: Whoo! That was a great Bible verse from Bryan. I love anytime the Bible says do not fear. We talk about this all the time with our kids. The Bible says do not fear or some permutation of that phrase like 365 times. The Bible gave us a do not fear quote for ever single day of the year, ya'll. Shane: So go out there in a fearless way. Don't be afraid to pursue and chase your dreams. There's nothing to be afraid of, there's everything to gain. You just got to take action and go get it done. Shane: That's all we've got for today ya'll, so until next time, get out there, take action, and do whatever it takes to flip your life. We'll see you then. Jocelyn: Bye. Links and resources mentioned on today's show: Bryan's Website Flip Your Life LIVE 2019 Tickets & Registration Information Flip Your Life community PROLIFIC Monthly Enjoy the podcast; we hope it inspires you to explore what's possible for your family! Join the Flip Your Life Community NOW for as little as $19 per month! https://flippedlifestyle.com/flipyourlife

If you enjoy unique challenges, daily variety, learning new things, finding opportunities, and experiencing freedom, then you would probably be successful in property management. Entrepreneurs would rather work 80 hours a week for themselves, than for someone else. You don’t have to do it all on your own. Be willing to take some risks, and connect with like-minded people. Let your entrepreneurial spirit fly! Today, I am talking to Bryan Jenkins and Jonathan Cook of AHI Properties. They share strategies that consistently grow their business and add doors in multiple markets.  You’ll Learn... [02:00] Keep on Growing: Corporate housing to single-family homes to property management. [05:25] Real Estate Market Crash: Created shift in income and dealing with investors, despite technology. [07:20] Love it, or Hate it: Learn something new every day in property management. [08:05] When’s the right time to grow and expand? Adding doors in multiple markets. [09:42] Sand Traps: Think outside the box to grow property management business. [11:15] Educate Clients with Market Knowledge: Direct investors into markets where they can make money and purchase more doors for AHI to manage. [12:03] Game Changer: Diversifying existing portfolio and dealing with accidental landlords who leave when it’s a good time to sell. [13:40] Recipe for Success: Gain momentum and referrals by building partnerships and relationships with sister companies, third-party providers, and contractors. [19:57] Four Ds to Revenue: Deals, Doors per deal, Duration, and Dollars. [24:30] Focus on Funnel: Multiple sources serve as supply line for incoming clients. [26:07] Strategies and Approaches: How to expand and operate in multiple markets. [27:13] False Scarcity: There’s plenty of opportunity to create business and follow up because 70% self-manage single-family residential properties.  [29:10] Remember Me? Make sure to have a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) strategy to keep track of clients and properties. [36:07] Bryan’s Biggest Piece of Advice: Keep an open mind, don’t be afraid, but focus on multiple funnels and opportunities to develop client relations. [38:03] Generational Change in Property Management Profession: Think about technology, bring awareness, and open people’s minds. Tweetables Let your entrepreneurial spirit fly. Recipe for Success: Gain momentum and referrals by building partnerships. Four Ds to Revenue: Deals, Doors per deal, Duration, and Dollars. Resources AHI Properties AHI Properties Email National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM) MLS U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) IMN Five Star Conference Roofstock Deb Newell of Real-Time Leasing Matthew Whitaker of GKHouses DGS 75: Bridging the Gap Between Inside and Outside Sales with Jennifer Stoops of Park Avenue Properties DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz   Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Gentlemen, welcome. I’ve got here hanging out with me Bryan Jenkins and Jonathan Cooks. Which ones which? Jonathan: I’m Jonathan. Bryan: And I’m Bryan.  Jason: Hi Jonathan. Hi Bryan. Jonathan, Bryan both of you have some experience in growing your property management business and I’d love to get into your background. Whoever wants to go first, share a little bit about your background, how you got into property management, into the space, and maybe a little bit about why somebody should listen to you today. Jonathan: Bryan is much more impressive. You go ahead, buddy. Jason: All right. Let’s go, Bryan. He threw you in.  Bryan: I’ve been a property manager now for 19 years and we started this firm ground-up but tied into a corporate housing company, where we do fully-furnished corporate housing for guests that are relocating. We operate that model in 12 different physical locations in 6 states, servicing 14 markets. With that, we had brick and mortar locations. I came online in 2000. We started buying residential single family homes to facilitate our corporate housing needs. From there, we actually acquired a property management company here in Birmingham, Alabama back in late 2003. Since that point, we’ve been growing. That’s the only acquisition we’ve really done through the years. We’ve first acquired that management company. We had 109 properties and that portfolio that we acquired. By that time, we purchased 52 of our own properties and eight classifications for corporate rentals and lease back. With that, we’ve grown over the years to five locations now and it worked in two states with our property management platform. We’re managing just shy of 1100 single family homes now.  I personally came from a military background, 9 years active service, got into real estate. My parents have always been entrepreneurs. I’m part of this operation and really got plugged in. Probably my big cook kick off and the expansion piece of it really took flight after I found NARPM back in 2011. I got plugged in there with the Atlanta chapter. I’m the past Atlanta chapter president. I’m currently the NARPM National Member Services Committee Chair and I just dropped my application for RVP. So, see how that one plays out, but a lot of experience. We’ve got a team. Including myself, we’ve got 23 property managers working on our operation and Jonathan is our business development. I’m going to segue that into him.  Jonathan: I got my real estate license in 2007. I was the youngest realtor in the state of Alabama when I got it. I was 21.  Bryan: Fun facts. Jonathan. Yeah. Fun facts. But my entire life I have been surrounded with real estate. My step dad owned a real estate company. He was in construction for a long time even before that. My mom’s best friend is a real estate agent in the area that has always owned properties, has her own rental company. After highschool, it just became my secondary job for the longest time of being her property manager. I don’t want to drive out to my 15 properties or how many she ended up having at that time. “I’ve got this property. I need you to run over there. Get rent. Get this. Make sure you maintain this. Paint these walls. That tenant’s out. That tenant’s in. Call the newspaper.” This is early 2000s. Before I even got my real estate license, I was still trying to do the maintenance piece of it. Then when I got my real estate license, I was doing real estate and had a... Bryan: Work field tech. Jonathan: Yeah, like a field tech. I had this halfway working knowledge of what property management was, I thought, supposed to be, but I was a realtor at that point. So, I was like, “Yeah, I’ve got an idea.” When the real estate market crashed in 2008–2009, there was not the source of income that I was used to. I started dealing with investors with the slight little piece of halfway working knowledge that I’ve built up with my family, like rentals, trying to figure out how the single family rental market works, and start cherry-picking areas because I had access to NLS and I could look up where properties were. At that time, there was no internet documentation. I couldn’t send documents online and have them signed. There was no electronic signatures at all.  Bryan: It was that long ago. Jonathan: It really was. I was having to drive offers on HUD homes from Birmingham where I’m at, in an hour-and-a-half away to the closest HUD office which is in Anniston, which is a whole another city in Alabama. It was an hour-and-a-half. I had to drive and had to have ink on page. “Here. This is an offer. Will you take it?” Then you end up, “Nah. Get out of here.”  Jason: So needless to say, things are a little bit more efficient now.  Bryan: A little bit.  Jonathan: My wife actually works for AHI for years before I did. I just started as the Business Development Manager in October of last year after my wife begging me for years. “Would you please go with AHI? You know what we do here.” I’m like, “Yes, it’s property management. I know how to do that.” Oh, I had no idea how to do that. Then I got here and like, “Oh.” I got plugged into NARPM. Started learning all the extra pieces, ins and outs that I didn’t even know that I didn’t know here at AHI. I learn on a daily basis from Bryan and from everyone out here in the office and it has just become, “I get it now.” There’s always going to be stuff that I’m not going to know. Bryan: That’s the challenge. That’s the beauty of property management. I always say, you love it or you hate it, there is no really gray area in between. As long as you’re learning something everyday and solving issues, that’s what keeps me coming back daily. It’s kind of us.  Jason: Like I said in the intro, the people that like this like the unique challenges, the daily variety, they like the opportunities, and ultimately if you’re an entrepreneur, you like freedom. And you’d rather be working 80 hours for yourself than 30 for somebody else.  Bryan: That’s right.  Jason: We’re crazy like that. Let’s get into how you guys have grown. You’ve mentioned there was an acquisition, there’s a couple of little things that you’ve done, but let’s get into how are you adding the bulk of the doors into your business. I guess the conversation topic at hand is supposed to be about multiple markets. How do you manage doing multiple locations and when do you feel it’s the right time to go into a second location for most managers that are listening?  Bryan: I’m going to say that, based on what I said earlier in our history, is we’re probably a little more unique than a company that’s trying to open a market from scratch in an outside area. Our growth strategy is actually to come alongside our corporate housing company, utilize the brick and mortar they already have. Then we just come in with client, we come in with systems, and hire local talent. With that, we’re ready to go operational, handling back office out of our main hub here in Birmingham. That allows us greater freedom and greater flexibility and movement with our client base.  Our most recent acquisition was Oklahoma City and we opened in December of 2017. We went out there basically with a client that took us out there with 24 properties to get us started. Hired a single property manager and now we’re managing 158 properties on the ground there. Some other clients have become along the way and have been clients we’re working with in multiple markets as well.  Jason: Let’s give some of the listeners some tips or some strategies here for growing their property management company. We’ve got two kinds of sand traps that people fall into. The first one’s maybe the solopreneur stuck at 50 or 60 units. What would you recommend to somebody that have 50 or 60 units if they’re wanting to add doors and build up a portfolio?  Bryan: Let your entrepreneurial spirit fly, first and foremost. I would say, be willing to take some risk. You have to be able to do that. What I see in property management is, I see people that are stuck in the box. What I mean by that is they’re happy signing accidental landlords on a daily basis and dealing with the one-off homeowner that by default is the landlord. Jonthan: They called you because they’ve seen your side.  Bryan: Right. Jonathan just talked to one earlier today and the expectations are totally off scale. They have no investment mindset whatsoever and they’ve got a strong emotional attachment to the property.  Jonathan: And in my opinion, if you start taking in those kinds of clients, it’s going to keep you at that rate because they’re going to require way more attention. They’re going to need hand holding for every little thing. They don’t have that entrepreneurial mindset.  Jason: If they’re only going to stay a year, that means every year, you have to get a new one to replace them. Plus another one if you want to grow and add something new. If you build your business on accidental landlords, it can be pretty difficult unless you’re magically able to convince them to switch to buy-and-hold. Jonthan: Generally, you’re not directing them into the markets that they can make money, which will in turn allow them to purchase more doors for you to manage. That’s one of the things I like to help our investors there is identify markets. I think that’s super important for any property manager no matter where you are. Knowing your markets, knowing them really, really well like the back of your hand, and being able to educate owners and investors from all over.  Bryan: Yeah, whether investors gain experience whatever. Jason, I would say that the big game changer for us was really about 3½ years ago, maybe even 4 years ago. Looking at the diversification of our existing portfolio and then realizing we had a heavy concentration of accidental landlords, and hearing the same information being repeated back to say, “You know what? A lot of the property managers I know, their managed inventory were shrinking and consistently shrinking year after year as the sales market started to gain momentum.” And that’s what happens to your accidental landlords to say they jump ship when it’s a good time to sell.  Jonathan: And get my money back out.  Bryan: That’s right. Some of those we did over the years, as long as we’ve been at it, we’ve had investors that have actually started off as accidental landlords and then they’ve converted to buy-and-hold and then they’ve had another property, and another property. They’ve educated themselves and they’ve become real estate investors.  In my opinion, they’ve done it the right way. They’re learning as they go the right way for them, I guess. They’re educating, taking a step, they’re not taking too much time to take the step because otherwise, you’d miss the opportunity. What we focused on was, we want to understand not only what is going on in our local market, but we want to get a broader national picture and see what markets are hot markets, why are they hot markets, what types of return on investment are investors realizing particularly after we looked at that focus on the time period after 2010. After bottoms have been hit and you’re starting to get some upward momentum again with property values and such.  We started attending outside events such as IMN or Five Star, started to align ourselves with some funds, some small REITs, and property owners that have portfolios that weren’t necessarily internalizing their management operations. They were small enough, they needed a professional partner to partnership with, to make their operations run as efficiently as possible, and focus on key metrics. That’s where we started focusing our education piece and then started signing those clients. Really, that’s been a wonderful piece.  From that, we’ve added another piece to our business which we have an internal insurance agency which we opened up last year that focuses on the investment product. They can insure in 50 states. If they’re buying property in one of our existing markets or even a couple of them, that’s the beauty of having multiple markets. They focus on investment in three- or four-year markets but then they’re buying elsewhere. The insurance piece will pick up their properties wherever they have them in the country. That’s been a really powerful piece for us and that has come online especially we opened it last year but we’re really been gaining momentum in the last six months with that piece.  Jason: This is a third party tool, or resource, or vendor that you guys have signed on with? Bryan: No. This is a sister company. It’s Birmingham Insurance Group and their carriers are third party. They use national carriers that are backed by Lloyds of London and a few others. Jonathan: It’s downstairs.  Bryan: Yeah, just downstairs in our office building. They are truly a sister company and my partner is a shared owner in that entity. It’s been a nice value add for us both ways. They’re referring people into us, we’re referring people out to them, handling the renter side of it. The big thing is the master policies with the insurance. That does make it nice and easy for investors, again, no matter where their stuff is, to add or take away property as they need to from online portal systems. It works pretty well.  My partner and spoke on a couple of podcast, investment network podcast and got invited out to the West Coast to speak to some folks and from there, that opened the door to three or four buyer networks, basically. They were focused on Alabama already and then Oklahoma City. Then aligning ourselves with turnkey providers and partnering with some local contractors to be able to facilitate that piece ourselves. That’s been the growth cycle. Back to that spread your entrepreneur wings, I think that somebody that really get stuck in a box and only want to do property management per se may handcuff themselves a little bit. I think you can’t be the master of all things, I understand that, but understanding what industry you’re in and how you can be most effective and partner with people. For example, I had a phone call with a real estate agent here locally that I’ve known for 15 years and all of the sudden, April 1, he just called me up today just to say, “Hey, April 1. I partnered with a rehabber, I partnered with a guy from a hedge fund, and we’ve got a couple of funds going. I’ve got some inventory to rehab and I hear you guys have some investor clients…” there’s partnerships all over the place.  At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to the relationship piece. Getting in front of people and just building those relationships. Maybe they’ll do it. The one sit down at the bar and have an hour a bit, maybe it’s the third one or the fourth one, just consistently following up. I found that a lot of these guys, if they’re shopping you and shopping your competition, what happens is they’re not really ready to pull the trigger that day. But if you stick with the follow-up, just stay in front of them, stay consistent, and know your metrics, then a lot of these guys will circle back to you and they’ll give you an opportunity. That’s been our recipe for success for the last three years. Jason: All right. You threw out a lot of things really quickly. I need a recap and I have notes here. For those that are watching, let’s cover some of these. First, you said, make sure you identify the good markets with the best investments. Get really familiar with your market even nationally taking a look at which markets are hot. Most managers are working in the market they’re in, but the advantage of looking nationally would be to understand maybe how their market fits in, play with the national scene to see if their market could be savvy to market investors outside of your geographic area. That sound about right? Jonathan: We’ve recently had a lot of out-of-state, out-of-market investors coming in because they’ve heard nationally in Birmingham. They come in and some of that information sometimes is going to be a little bit old but it’s taking them in and being willing to, and having the knowledge to help them understand the differences. Birmingham is big. How do we separate that into areas of, “Let me explain this area, then this area, then this area,” and then compare it to whatever markets that are used. Bryan: There are macro versus micro views. I think that gives you common ground to speak to the investor. If their coming out of the Indianapolis market, then all of a sudden they’re looking at Alabama. It gives you some common ground to start with.  Jason: That first one ultimately what’s really helpful is to have context to give them, these out of state investors, to see how your market fits in with the national scene. I think that is wise. Know your own markets, know the little neighborhoods in your market, but also see how you can fit into the macro view of the nation and beyond.  The second thing you mentioned is to shift away from accidental landlords, just recognizing that. I talk about this concept called the 4Ds to revenue. The first D is deals. The second D is the number of doors per deal. A lot of times people just lump those together and they think a door is a door. The third D is duration. That’s how long you can keep them on. There’s a massive difference between a one year accidental and the 10-year buy-and-hold. Ten times difference in revenue return. Then, the last D is dollars, making sure you get fees in place. A lot of people don’t focus on each of these things individually. They’re just like, “I just need to get doors on.” It’s just about the doors. There’s a such a big difference between those. So I think that’s wise to shift away from accidental landlords.  The third thing you’ve mentioned is identify partnership opportunities. There’s a lot of different ideas here for partnerships. You had mentioned partnering with an insurance product or an insurance company, bringing in a value add and partnering with them, getting on investment network podcast, then connecting to buyer’s networks, turnkey providers for partnerships. Then you’ve mentioned follow-up over and over and over again.  Bryan: That’s right. One other thing I’ll add to that would be your preferred vendor partnerships. One we allude to all the time is we work with Roofstock, which I don’t know if you had an opportunity to speak with those guys in the past. Jason: I haven’t. Bryan: Great product especially if you’re buying anywhere coast-to-coast but as roofstock.com—shameless plug there—be sure to check that out. Jonathan: It’s not for us.  Bryan: No, it’s not for us, but what they do is they come online, they certify their property management partner and the same thing with the wealth networks. Once they’ve certified you as a vendor and a partner in that capacity, then you’re a trusted resource. It makes the closing of the transaction that much easier.  Jonathan: One of the things that I really like about Roofstock is if you are able to direct your own internal investors, if you don’t have enough time to go through an actual buyer’s agency with an investor that does want to potentially grow more doors and you’re busy being a property manager, you don’t have time to walk down every single property with them, you can direct them to Roofstock and say, “Hey, grab your properties from Roofstock. Bring them to us.” That helps take that portion off of it, so they’re buying properties that you want to manage.  They’re buying properties that are already set-up. They’re already getting vetted out. They have an idea of what they’re going to get. They’re not coming to you with some uninformed number of “I saw a house and I have no information about it so maybe can we put [...] in there?” No, this house has [...]. This is how much I’m paying for. This is the ledger. This is what is already making for rent. This is what it should make for rent. Whatever.  Bryan: It allows you to control that potential client so you keep them inside your little circle if you will, to ensure that they’re going to be coming back to you. Just based on people we referred to them over the last couple of years, the relationships are really tight. They take really good care of them and they do come back. They asked the property managers to perform to certain levels and the properties, as we mentioned, they’re vetted out in advance. A lot of the due diligence piece done, we still always encourage our clients to do their own due diligence but a lot of that is done on the front end for them. It’s a nice value add.  Jason: That’s a great tip. Property managers listening should go get connected, if they can, to Roofstock so that they can have that vendor partnership. They can be listed as a preferred or recommended vendor. Are there other channels or how would somebody identify their channels that they should be looking at to become a certified partnership, or a preferred vendor as a property management company? Jonathan: Local REIT, REIs, and stuff like that. Any sort of investor networking. Most cities will have a local chapter and sometimes it’s going to be wholesalers. That’s fine. You need wholesalers if you are trying to bring in homeowners that are going to be growing their business and growing their doors which in turn is growing yours. You’re going to have to have some product to give them. It’s not bad to have a few wholesalers that you know and you know the product that they have and you can stir. Maybe you get an extra commission off of that, who knows, but you’re least adding to your own business by adding to theirs.  Bryan: I think my biggest tip in this arena right here would be, I view everything as a funnel. You’ve got to have multiple sources pouring into the funnel that’s going to push out to you on the end. I guess the tip to it all is develop the multiple networks and the multi approach to just having a supply line for incoming clients. We all know about the renter side; that’s pretty easy. What I think has been underdeveloped over the years in the property management arena has been the client-based side of it and trying to attract the clients back in instead of being strictly out of necessity, such as the case with an accidental landlord. There’s so many factors to focus on but ultimately, we are big on having probably no less than 10 different sources pouring into our funnel and then we give them points. So, there’s always a trickle effect and then you’re maintaining those relationships along the way.  In our operation, with five locations I’ve got five different property manager brokers that are actually running the operations. We actually have an education piece each month which we push out all of our brokers. We have a mastermind call group each month that we work through problematic areas within the individual operations corporately and then on the local market level. All these things help us stay consistent in our team approach.  You had Jen Stoops on recently, right? With Park Avenue? We love Jen. We did a show with Jen and Deb Newell after the Five Star event in Memphis, March, I think it was. We were talking about Jen’s approach with John in Park Avenue. He’s always been that hub approach. They have their back-end office piece and then they spoke out and she explained it to us. That’s been fascinating to me because we have brick and mortar in each location and a lot of it depends on what your state requires.  Again, there’s a couple of different strategies on how you do those operations and how you expand out and operate multiple markets, but both of them work and both companies are successful at it. Again, I just think don’t put all your eggs in one basket. My grandpa used to tell me that a long time ago and just growing up with entrepreneur parents I [...] that, exampled out to me on a daily basis. That’s probably the biggest approach. Don’t be fearful and don’t put all your eggs in one basket. Just be mindful of the relationships.  Jason: Yeah. I love this because I feel like the stuff that you’re doing is foundational to growth. This is what the property management industry needs right now. We’ve got 70% self-managing in single family residential. There’s plenty of opportunity. There isn’t scarcity in this industry, yet. Yet, there’s this false scarcity that’s been perpetuator-created. I think it’s just so refreshing that you didn’t mention, yet, it’s all about SEO, it’s all about doing pay-per-click ads, it’s all about social media marketing, it’s all about content marketing. You’re actually going out and tapping into that 70% and you’re creating business. You’re walking out the door, the business is there and you’re getting the business while everybody else is fighting over the coldest, crappiest, worst leads that fall off your table.  Bryan: I’m going out also to say everything you just addressed is important, too. I’ll let you be going on in the background but the resources have been beaten to death over the last several years.  Jonathan: We get those too. We get plenty of those and you have to call.  Bryan: That’s right. Jonathan: You have to. You have to still call them. Jason: And follow up, and follow up, and follow up. Jonathan: You have to. Bryan: The funniest thing and I know you can probably relate to this but we see it all the time. Any property management firm operator, or property manager just listening, they have seen it on multiple occasions. You’ll get there’s tire kickers that come to you, they’re checking out your services, your rates, your reputation and all these stuff. Then they’ll say, “Okay, I’ll call you when I’m ready.” You follow-up with them and then eventually they come back 12, 15 months later, “Okay, I’m ready to go. You remember my property?” We looked at thousands of properties since then.  Jonathan: “Remember, you saw it? You saw it.” Jason: Yeah.  Bryan: We do make it apprise, “Hey, save that information. There’s a good chance he comes back around.” That’s just experience of it all, but again, those are going to be your accidental landlords, your one off homeowners that—not being negative—aren’t really investors. They’re just investors by necessity only.  Jonathan: Or they just want to know what their property potentially can list for. Jason: That’s why it’s important to have a CRM and to keep track. I’ve talked to hundreds of property managers and it’s so funny because I always hear, “You remember me?” and sometimes—I’m honest—I’m like, “No, I don’t. But I have really good notes here from when we talked and I can refer to that,” and that’s enough.  Bryan: It is. We’ve seen you around at events and such, and everybody’s intertwined in our industry, at least to the NARPM scene and a couple of other organizations we belong to. At the end of the day, it is about the relationships. I always said, the thing I love about NARPM—not to turn into a NARPM commercial—I always felt like the analogy that I would beat my head against the door jamb every single day and it was quite painful. I got tired of learning from my own mistakes. The opportunity came up to learn from other people’s mistakes, so that made it much more appetizing. I enjoyed it.  Jason: Let other people bang their heads and you can watch. Jonathan: They already have. They’ve already banged their head on whatever problem you’re about to have. They’ve already done it. Here’s an answer for you already. It’s easy. Jason: We see that a lot inside of our Facebook community as well, the DoorGrow Club. It’s a resource, everybody’s super helpful, you can just ask a question, and you get at least several really solid answers. You don’t have to be alone as an entrepreneur. I think as entrepreneurs, there’s this myth that’s created in our minds that we’re alone. It does feel like that a lot of times because our teams are a little bit different than us. There are people that want to see the uncertainty or they’re crazy freedom people. Most of the people, I think, in the world are not entrepreneur personality type, so we feel like we’re aliens sometimes on a foreign planet. But if you can get around other people through organizations like NARPM or through the DoorGrow Club and connect with other people, you start to recognize that there’s nothing wrong with you and you’re normal.  Bryan: And you’re not alone.  Jason: And you’re not alone. There’s plenty of people willing to help. I think as entrepreneurs, we are contribution-focused people. We get momentum by helping other people. That’s why we do what we do. I think everyone’s always so surprised if they’ve been disconnected from other people like them, other entrepreneurs at how helpful entrepreneurs will be. They’re so helpful, so giving. I think really, a rising tide raises all ships. This industry really needs more collaboration. We’re not at the point where there’s any sort of real scarcity, or competition really is fierce. There’s so much business available and there’s lots of room for growth. I think the industry is going to start to see that here in the next several years.  Jonathan: I think before I came to AHI, one of the things that I learned on day one was before being at this company, I did have that mindset of, “I can’t, I don’t want to share any of this stuff, I got to do all this by myself.” Once I’ve been at AHI, one of our biggest competitors, we refer to them all the time. We refer people to them constantly because they might handle this better than we will in this instance. The competition is such friendly competition in this industry.  Bryan: Are you talking about Matthew? Jonathan: I am talking about Matthew. It’s so collaborative. We’re having him in an event in a month. Bryan: You know Matthew Whitaker, right? Matthew Whitaker with GK? GKHouses? Jason: Maybe. Jonathan: He’s got good notes on him.  Bryan: Anyway, Matthew’s a contrast to my vision and what we’ve done with growth. He’s been growing through acquisition.  Jason: Very different strategy.  Bryan: Yeah. Homevestors, franchise holder, and then converted, internalized to PM operations after 2007–2008 and then went to work. Basically, he’s growing from Birmingham to Nashville, Chattanooga, Little Rock, Arkansas, then Denver and Fort Collins, Colorado. He’s done it through acquisitions. He’s a sharp mind. He’s cutting-edge guy, but we got along famously and have been friends for years. We’re actually hosting a PM summit coming up in a month, in June.  First thing that we put on in the State of Alabama—NARPM doesn’t have a chapter in the entire State—we’re trying to do a kick-off event and get some property managers in, geographically from Huntsville all the way down Montgomery, and just have a nice panel discussion. I’ve got some professional managers coming over from the Atlanta chapter, Matthew and myself. It would be a great event and we’re looking forward to it. I think it’s going to lead to bigger and better things.  My big piece, I think you [...] upon it, is just make our industry better and raise the bar for crying out loud. If nothing else, what that does for operators that are raising their bars, those that refuse to do it, there’s such a difference between the two companies. It’s easy to select the [...] that’s doing it bigger, doing it better and more efficient, and giving more value back to our clients and customers. That’s our focus.  Jonathan: One of the things that I see with these smaller realtors that are doing property management individuals is we all know similar stuff. It will be those stories where it’s like, “Oh, I had this client that was doing this and I knew they shouldn’t have done it. We just let him and it was an issue.” Okay, well, that’s not education piece. Inform your client instead of just sitting there and holding it. That’s the thing that I see. They’re afraid to lose that business so they’re afraid to step on those toes to educate their clients.  Bryan: Yeah. I’ll make it a point to empower my team members. When you empower a property manager, you always see analogy of the guardrail system. Our procedures are guardrails and if they stay within the guardrails, they can have their own little flavor. That empowers them to make certain decisions and do things that are instantaneous and beneficial to everybody involved instead of having to go through red tape.  Jason: Yeah. Let’s wrap this up. If people want to connect with you, find a little bit more info, or they’re curious about what you’re doing for growth, how can they get in touch with you? Any final words to those who are struggling with growth right now who are looking to grow their property management business?  Bryan: My final thoughts going back and recapping this thing is just keep an open mind, don’t be afraid but focus on multiple funnels, if you will. Look at multiple opportunities for you to develop client relations. I think our strategy ended up originating from the need for self-preservation. Is not that we are in danger. We just saw that the market was going to change and has changed and will change again. We want to be better prepared for that and allow ourselves better diversity in what we’re doing.  If they want to reach us, we actually do a podcast ourselves. We have an email set up for that podcast@ahiproperties.com and that ties directly to both of us. We just love to answer any questions. I’m always open and available by email and phone. I’ll be happy to connect and just give my two cents worth. Again, I always like to give back to the industry. It has been good to me and I like to give back.  Jonathan: I second everything Bryan said. He’s got it.  Jason: All right. Perfect. Bryan, Jonathan, grateful to have both of you here on the DoorGrow Show. Appreciate what you guys are doing. Bryan: Thanks for having us.  Jonathan: It’s a pleasure.  Jason: It’s a good message for everybody to diversify your interest and how you’re bringing in business. It’s exactly what I coach clients to do, so I love that you’re reinforcing what I teach which is a welcome, refreshing unexpected thing. I appreciate you guys being here on the show.  Bryan: We appreciate you having us. We thank you very much. I just want to actually thank you for what you’re doing for the industry because I think it’s a wonderful thing.  Jonathan: Yes. It makes everything better.  Bryan: Yup.  Jason: Oh, thanks. Everyone says that and I’m going to ask you, what am I doing for the industry?  Bryan: Here’s the deal. I’m an old dog but you can teach me new tricks. There’s a generational change in the property management profession and I think as the level professionalism comes up, we see our younger generation of property managers coming in behind. I don’t want to say transitioning of the guard but it is a change of mindset from what was old. Think about the technology piece and the systems pieces that have kicked in, stuff that’s happened since 2012 is crazy. We were server-based.  Actually, what Jonathan was alluding to early on with the ink on paper scenarios. I think that’s the biggest piece. It’s bringing awareness and just opening people’s minds such as myself. The new line of thought process and focusing on efficiencies and systems and the benefits of what’s out there and available to us. I think that’s a huge help to entrepreneurs everywhere.  Jonathan: When you spread this message out to everyone through the internet and it becomes national and worldwide that people can get this information, when you’re going to partner with another property manager in a different area, at least we can start from a place where we can both springboard off of, we were able to send people to you and just, “Listen to this. That’s the information you need,” as opposed to us having to go, “We’re going to have to teach you all this stuff.” Bryan: It’s fun to do to educate, but it is an education piece for your in-bound clients. You’re using all of that to really set them up for success with the organization. The reason we got into our podcast, specifically, was the first one my partner and I were on was a guest on one of the investment wealth networks and we actually signed 52 houses off that one episode, of clients coming in from out-of-state. That prove the value of it and then the education piece. If you’re like me, if you travel, I listen to podcasts all the time and come outside my own little world. It just really open that up. People are listening on a more regular basis and it’s definitely an education piece. It’s on demand for you. That’s the beauty of it.  Jason: Great. It’s been great connecting with you guys. Love what you’re doing. Again, I appreciate you being here on the DoorGrow Show and I will let you guys go now.  Bryan: All right. Jonathan: Thank you so much.  Bryan: Thank you.  Jason: All right. You heard it from those two gentlemen. The strategy for growth, really, you need a diversified approach and there’s so much available potential business out there. I really feel like the industry has so much potential for growth. I think it’s a really exciting time for property management. There are tons and tons of people that are self managing, they’re frustrated and they’re not searching on Google according to Google Trends.  Anyway, reach out to us at DoorGrow. If you’re struggling with any of these challenges, you feel like, “Hey, I’m ready to be coached. I’m coachable. I’m open. I’m ready to grow my company. I’m ready to make some painful difficult changes in my business,” then, I might be able to help you. Reach out to DoorGrow. You can check us out at doorgrow.com and make sure you join our Facebook community so you don’t end up getting stuck on random questions. You can ask questions in there; doorgrowclub.com. Until next time, everybody, to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone.

He is a coach. He's a real estate broker. He's a real estate agent. Ex-professional basketball player, and he's grown a pretty big YouTube channel. 110,000 subscribers, which is super, super impressive.   Stefan: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show, Respect The Grind, with Stefan Aarnio. This is the show we interview people who've achieved mastery and freedom through discipline. We interview entrepreneurs, athletes, authors, artists, real estate investors, anyone who's achieved mastery and examine what it took to get there. Stefan: Today on the show we have a friend of mine, a new friend of mine, Bryan Casella. He is a coach. He's a real estate broker. He's a real estate agent. Ex professional basketball player, and he's grown a pretty big YouTube channel. 110,000 subscribers, which is super, super impressive. So, Bryan, welcome to the show, Respect The Grind. Thanks so much for joining me, man. Bryan: Stefan, thanks for having me bro. I'm excited to be here and ready to drop some knowledge. Stefan: You're a young guy, 32 years old. I'm 32 as well. You've done a lot of things in your short life. Tell me Bryan, looks like it's pretty good today. Was it always like this or where did you get started? Bryan: No, man. Growing up, my family is actually from South America. I'm the first one from my family. Born in LA in the states and growing up, I wouldn't say that we were terribly poor but I didn't have a lot either. So we were very just meager, but okay. Barely above poor, we can say. I remember growing up and seeing a lot of scarcity around me from being told that Lamborghinis and nice things just weren't going to be a part of my life. I still remember to this day being three, four or five years old and just telling myself, "It can't be like this. I have to break out of this. I wasn't meant to live this way." Bryan: So, growing up around age 10 or 11 is when I got into basketball like we were talking a little bit off the air, and I just really dedicated myself to that and I had dreams and aspirations of getting to the NBA. By age 14, 15, I really just started grinding every day. People would be on vacation, people would go party, I would be in the gym working out and getting some shots up. I went into college, I got a scholarship, I played in college. You fast forward after that, I played professionally in Europe and South America for three years. My last year I injured my left ankle the second time and had a second surgery on it, at which point it took a toll on me mentally and it really affected my ability to play. So, at that point I said, "Okay, that's it, I'm done. No more basketball." At that point, I'm age 24, 25. Bryan: Getting out of that I fell into a year of just being completely lost, didn't know what I wanted to do, felt almost borderline depressed and sorry for myself until one day I decided, you know what, I have to change something. From that moment on, I just kind of, you can say, put the switch on to look for something outside of basketball because I did basketball from age 10 or 11 until 25, and I came across one of those cliche signs we see in front of the real estate buildings that says, make 100,000 your first year as a real estate agent. And in my mind, I said, okay, everybody's not doing that for sure, but there's probably one guy who's done it and he's cracked that code, let me go talk to him. Bryan: So, I walked in, long story short, I talked to the broker for two hours, I signed up, got my real estate license and I just never stopped, man. I just grinded my first couple years, then I've built my team and I got to where I'm at today. But that decision to do it changed my life to get into real estate for sure. Stefan: I love the stories about the athletes turn business people. It's always like the most rewarding for me. I used to be a captain of volleyball team in high school, I played basketball. I'm not a very good basketball player, most not a very good singer, but I love seeing the transfer of athletics to business. Why do you think it transfers so easily, Bryan? Bryan: Well, I think a lot of the core fundamentals if you apply them, you'll do great because I would say most athletes, especially if we get to a high level, we have a very high level of discipline and commitment to the sports. All we need to do is transfer what we're doing on the field or on the court into the business world. And more than anything, I think we're all super competitive. We want to be number one, we want to beat everybody else and that's ultimately the drive that keeps us going and I think allows most athletes to transition into sales jobs or the business world, it gives them a much better headstart or opportunity than everybody else. Stefan: Yeah, it's really all about discipline. Now, Bryan, we talk to all different people on this show, and we sometimes have actors, artists, authors, real estate people, why is real estate so attractive? Like, it seems to me that everybody on this show has either made it in real estate, they're holding in real estate and all millionaires in the world are either made or held in real estate, why is real estate so attractive? Bryan: Well, at the time, man, when I looked at it, especially, I would say, anybody under the age of 35, it seems from the outside like a very low barrier to entry type career with a huge upside. Meaning, you can get licensed especially here in California, you can do your three courses and state test and be licensed within, I believe, three, four months. So, it's really quick, you spend maybe $1,500 max and now you can sell a home which out here in Southern California the average price point now is around 600,000 or 700,000, and you can make 15,000, 20,000 depending on what commission you get. That alert to people, just the dollar is I think really what attracts them. Bryan: Now, they get slapped in the face right when they start in the reality of how difficult it is to put these deals together and actually build a business with it, but I think that's really what attracts people is the fact that you can create this business where you're kind of like an entrepreneur and by yourself and you can make a lot of money right away. I think that's really the ultimate attraction for most people at least below the age of 35. Stefan: I've heard a lot of times, "I don't love real estate, but I love the benefits." Would you say that's true? Bryan: Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Stefan: Yeah, lots of benefits. Now, something you said there is like really, I think, important that people need to hear is, people get excited about the money and they get excited about the 100 Grand or whatever the thing is, and then you said, it's a lot harder to put a deal together than you think. Tell me, why isn't it just magic and why can't everybody just make 100 Grand in real estate? I'm a real estate investor. So, my background is I came from raising capital and flipping homes. That's what I do. I'd flip homes, sell more money. Never been an agent, bought the course three times, but always been pure investor. I teach people now how to be investors and go full-time if they want to raise capital, build their brand. It's funny because I think a lot of people get in and they go, "Shit, it's harder than it looks." Why isn't it just so easy to put deals together on the agent side or the investor side? Bryan: Well, especially from the agent side, man, we watch shows like Million Dollar Listing where these guys just show up in suits to the office and they get a call, "Hey, I want to buy a $20 million house, come show it." And then they negotiate it over the phone in five minutes and the deal is closed, supposedly. When I got in and what most people fail to realize is when you get in, most brokerages and companies don't hold your hand and help you. They're just like, "There's your desk, there's your phone, get to work. Good luck." Again, most people getting into real estate don't have a sales background and it's a direct sales job. Unless you're spending thousands and thousands of dollars on marketing to bring people in, you're going to have to get out there and talk to people. Whether it's- Stefan: You still going to close it, bro. You marketing, you got to close it, man. You're paying for the leads. It's like jacked up version of that now. Bryan: ... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because you're right. Even if I pay for the leads and they come in, I still have to make a phone call and go meet with them and still speak with them. So, I'm going door to door and making phone calls like Wolf of Wall Street on steroids and those deals don't come easy. I mean, you have to go through a lot of rejection. You have to face your own insecurities that a lot of people are not willing to do. And there's really no guarantee per se that you're going to get it because even my first couple of deals, when I sat down with those people, they were interviewing two or three other agents and I had to win them over. Bryan: So, it's not this glitz and glamour. "Oh, yeah. Hi, Bryan. I'm going to sell my house. Come on in, we're going to pay you 10%." It', "Okay, I'm interviewing you and three other guys. Why should I pick you?" And you're sitting there brand new, sweating with your cheap suit on trying to make ends meet and you're now trying to convince somebody to hire you to sell their $500,000 home or a million dollar home and that reality slaps people on the face very quickly as soon as they start. Stefan: Right. It's not cheap. It's not easy. I think it's interesting. I've sort of creating a course curriculum here over the last six years and we teach sales, negotiation, marketing, wealth, and raising capital. And it's funny because four out of those five things really is sales, and the ability to negotiate and sit there and sweat it out when you're going to get the contract. How important is it to be able to sell and negotiate in this world? Bryan: It's 100% vital, man. You said something earlier, most people say they're not passionate about real estate or love it, they just love the money. One other kind of angle that I took on it is I said, "Well, I may not per se be passionate about real estate, but if I get into this game of real estate," what you just said about sales, "that's something I'm going to dive into and learn." And that to me was an essential life tool. I still believe that people look at sales, maybe it's because of Instagram, man, and all this stuff we're seeing on social media, they still look at it as like some gimmicky thing, when it's like one of the most vital skills you can have in life because everything we do, we're negotiating all the time. Everything is sales, but people fail to look at it that way, so, I think it's 100% vital. Bryan: Like if I had a son right now, the first thing I would teach them is about sales and I'd have his head in books, and I would be like, probably doing mock negotiations with them and I'd be teaching them so by the time he's 10, he'd be like a master negotiator. Stefan: Yeah. One thing I want to do in our kids is I want to say like, "Okay, look, here's the deal. Rent starts at age three, it's one penny a month, you got to pay your rent. And then there's chores in the kitchen on a big board and the kids can do the chores, invoice mom. Invoices get paid on first and the 15th." And then if they're like, "Dad, I want money." I'm like, "Okay, you got to write me a business plan and then I'm going to give you a loan at 7% and you get some chocolate almonds, you bag them up, you go selling them door to door." You got to get the hustle on early. You got to be selling early because otherwise people will do ... One thing I see too a lot, Bryan, with coaching people is, negative view on sales is usually a negative view on money. If someone is negative on selling or being sold, they're just not going to have any money. Would you say that's true? Bryan: Absolutely, man. A lot of that programming comes into us at a young age. Like I mentioned in the beginning, I was brought up to fear the salesman, to be afraid of contracts, to look at rich people as if they were evil. I remember when I started this process of kind of reprogramming my brain, that was what I had burned into my mind was money is the root of all evil, and now let's say I get into your coaching program and you're teaching me and giving me these tools to now start making money and have sales skills, well, my own mind doesn't conflict with that because it tells me money is the root of all evil. So, I mean, I'm not going to ever get it or if I do get it, it's going to be gone very quickly. Just like I always tell people the classic example of somebody winning the lottery and hitting 50 million or 100 million, and a year later, they're broke or in a worse position than they were before they got the $50 million payout or whatever it was. Stefan: Well, it's interesting, and a lot of it comes down to changing that broke programming. I remember when I started being interested in money, I was a guitar teacher making 10 Grand a year, and teaching guitar at my mom's house in university. That's what I did. I would save 70% of my money because I read Rich Dad Poor Dad, a little book called Rich Dad Poor Dad. It says, start saving your money and take a real estate investment course. I thought, shit, that's great. So, I started saving 70% of my money, the rest went to my rent for my mom. So, I paid rent to my mom, and then I had this like sliver of money. It was like $20 a week for entertainment and bus pass. I was like, bus pass, bagels for 99 cents, and like rent to mom and the rest went into savings. Stefan: It took a long time for me to shake that broke mentality. I tried to save my way to freedom. Usually in the modern world today, you can't just save your way to freedom. The currency is always inflating, the money is always devaluing. What I've found is I had to go ... Actually, what got me out of that mentality, the poverty mentality was throwing down on some big coaches and mentors. I spent 300 Grand on coaches and mentors in the last eight years. And that really got me, it forced me into the abundance mentality and out of the scarcity mentality. What are some ways that someone can get out of scarcity and into abundance? Bryan: That's a great question. What you mentioned about investing yourself, man, I mean, I think I've spent probably 300 Grand in the last three or four years alone. Stefan: Damn, dude. Bryan: Yeah, and it's one of those things where I've just doubled down on it because it's so important. Part of that is not just, I think, most of the times the coaches and the mentors, but the people that we meet with and within those programs that has really helped evolve me because when I've put together these masterminds or I've met with coaches and gone to their events and I've been able to make new relationships and new friendships, I've been fortunate enough to get around people who don't exhibit that mindset who are way ahead of me or closer to where I want to be in the future that getting a taste of that in real time is what started shifting me mentally a bit. And I sort of, "Well, my relationship with money is so different than them. Like, let me pick their brain. Let me just even observe them for an hour and see how they sit down at this restaurant, how they look at the menu, how they interact with people, even how they tip." Bryan: I really just started making mental notes and just witnessing it. That's when I first started making the connection. Another thing I started doing that I can't remember who taught me this, otherwise, I'd give him credit. I started doing little things to get me out of that broke mindset. Like, for example, I'd go to a hotel and I pull up and I'd asked myself, "What would a millionaire do here? Would he do the self parking or would he balle and pay an extra five Bucks?" And I'm like, "Well, obviously, he's going to pay an extra five bucks and balle because time is money." Bryan: So, I would do little stuff like that. I'd spend the extra five bucks to balle just to get the experience. And the more I did that and really immerse myself not only in the coaching but with these other people who already were farther ahead than I was, it really started changing me. A lot of times I didn't even realize that change was happening until I was presented with a new situation and then I responded to it differently. Like when a bill came and I went to tip, it became automatic for me to tip 20%, instead of pulling pennies together and tipping a couple of bucks. Stefan: Right. That's interesting. When I was broke, I remember I flew down to Palm Springs. I had five grand in the bank I'd saved up. So, I'm a guitar teacher, saved up five grand in the bank was like all the money in the world and I was going to buy myself a good duplex, like a rental property. That was my goal, of 50 grand at the time in my town. I remember I flew down to Palm Springs ... Well, I went to a seminar and there was a guy there named Bill Barton. He was a self made billionaire. It was 2008 and I guess the banks were crashing in the states and he said, "Look, last time I got rich the banks are crashing and I bought up all this credit card debt for a penny, two pennies, three pennies, four pennies, five pennies on the dollar. Come down with me." Stefan: I remember watching and I was like, "I'm not signing up for that. I'm going to stick to my rental property." My friend said to me, he's like, "Stefan, if anybody was going to do this, I thought it would be you." So, I threw down all my five grand on this course with this guy and I went down to Palm Springs, I had no money to my name, but I went and booked a super nice hotel. And it was like the Omni Rancho Las Palmas or whatever in Palm Springs, gorgeous hotel. Four and a half stars. I remember being there and I'm like, wow, beautiful marble. Beautiful girls at the pool, beautiful view, nice wood on the walls, or whatever they're doing there. And I was like, "Oh, man, I want to get back here. I want to do this. I want to live this life." And I remember eating like a lobster club at the restaurants like a $30 lobster club sandwich and I see bill that's eaten a $5 foot long from subway behind the stage. The actual billionaire he's eating a $5 foot long ... I mean, the $30 lobster club being broke. Stefan: And I went 10 Grand into debt, further debt at that seminar. So, of course, they can't teach you everything in industry in three days. We all know that. So, do you want to really learn at this time? It's $10,000, 10 Grands. Not 10 Grand in the whole going in on this thing? And I'm like, "Oh my god." But I'll never forget spending a week with a billionaire when I was 21 and that classroom was totally worth it. Learning to make them a loan proposal, learning to make a business plan, learning how to pitch, learning how to ask for money, learning what it's like to live in a nice hotel for a little bit. All those images stayed in my mind and Bill, he died I think two years ago. But he went and he jacked up a new company. First time it was called CFS, Commercial Financing Services. And His Second  CFS two. When he went out to raise money, Bryan, for his second company, he raised 400 million in the first round. Bryan: Wow. Stefan: So, watching him for a week, invaluable, living in that space for a week, invaluable. Just tasting it because in your mind you just want to get back to that. Would you say that that's a powerful thing? Bryan: Yeah, man, because then you have that reference. We dream all the time. For example, before I bought my Lamborghini, I can't tell you how many times in my mind I had driven in it, seen it in the garage, could practically taste the leather in there and the suede, but when I really sat in one, and I started going to the dealerships and then talking to the sales people, and then meeting some of the other owners, that's really when everything started accelerating, and it really just fired me up even more. So, having that real life reference point, like you just described, I think, is invaluable for sure. Stefan: Yeah, absolutely. It's just like, I find with people, and I'm in the house flipping business teaching people how to flip houses, until they fly to the city where their coach lives and they watch their coach flip a house, they watch their coach make the calls, they just don't do it. And I don't know what it is. It's just like, you need the evidence in your brain, and it's like you need someone to do it right in front of you. It's almost like sex. Like you have to do sex to know sex. You can't just read a book about it. You got to like get in there and see someone do it, right? Bryan: Absolutely, man. Yep. Experience. Stefan: So, Bryan, one thing that I think is super impressive are your 110,000 YouTube subscribers, bro. That's amazing. Good for you. How did you build such a big channel? What got you that kind of following? Bryan: Thank you, man. I appreciate it. It's really been consistent effort over time, but more than anything, I believe it came down to a few key points. Number one is, this is the first thing I did, even when I got into real estate, and it was right before I started doing video and social media. I started going around just asking people, what does a realtor look like? The average realtor in your mind? What do they look like? What do they sound like? What do they do? And pretty much everybody unanimously was giving me the same description. Older person with a briefcase, black suit, white shirt, very boring, no energy,  life Bryan: And I was like, man, I have an opportunity here because the way I am, if I can transcend this boredom and the stereotypical image of what a realtor is, that already is going to get me a step ahead and get me attention. That's kind of what I did, man. I went to a lot of seminars too, real estate seminars, everybody was kind of walking on eggshells. Everyone's afraid to curse and everyone is so wound up and just so tight. I said, I'm the opposite. You know what, I'm just going to bring my personality into this and not be afraid to break these barriers. That was the first thing that I did that initially was kind of like a shock to everybody, but very quickly started attracting and garnering a lot of attention. Bryan: The second thing was I wasn't afraid to show my personal life. When I even go on my Facebook and see people who follow me, especially the ones who are in real estate, or any type of brick and mortar, "real life business" outside of online, all they really show is their business. Oh, I closed this deal. Oh, I flipped this house. Oh, I just listed this home. Oh, I sold this home to this buyer. But we don't really know anything about the individual and I knew, "Hey, I'm watching these people." Just like we used to watch people on TV back in the day, we're just genuinely curious about finding out, what stores do they shop that? Bryan: What clothes do they wear? Do they wear the same shoes as I do? What kind of toothpaste do they use" I started getting more intimate details about my life, how I think, what I did on a day to day basis, what my hobbies were, and that alongside what I just told you about kind of breaking barriers, really just opened up the floodgates, man. Because then I started collaborating with other people, people from different walks of life started following me, and what I wanted to establish in everybody's brain that I was in real estate and the businessman who was always there, it was just communicated in a different way. And that really is what got a lot of attention because at the end of the day, if we do stuff on social media, there has to be an element of entertainment, and most people forget that. You can be super educational, super informative, but if you're boring and you don't entertain people, they're not going to stick around, and I think that- Stefan: You just got yourself a gong bro. Entertainment, man. So, what's some of the things that make your content entertaining that makes people want to come back? Bryan: Let's see. Well, one thing I started doing about a year ago that really helped me out was collaborating with people outside of my space and bringing that element into my social media. Because, you know, I do what most people do in my space. I travel and speak, I talk about real estate and that kind of stuff, but I really started interviewing and collaborating and doing things like people outside of my industry. For example, I'm a huge car nut. I love cars. Because I own like six, but I'm going to buy like 10 more the next couple years. I'm just a car nut. I'm very good friends with a lot of people not just locally but internationally who are in the cars, and because of that I now have connections with the people who have been the, we can say like the forefathers to the Fast and Furious franchise. I know Paul Walker's family like very intimately now, and I've gone opportunities outside of that, whether it's in the real estate business to sell homes, let people invest or whatever it is, or other business opportunities because of that. Bryan: That alone brings an element of entertainment to my channel and what I do because they know, hey, if I go to Bryan, I'm not just going to be hearing about real estate and how to sell a home and negotiate, dude, he's over here hanging out with the guys on the beach, cruising down PCH with six Lamborghinis and Ferraris. That's cool. He's doing this, he's doing that. Today, man, I just sat down with a guy who I actually just recently found him but I thought the story was incredible. He spent 10 years in the penitentiary here in the United States and he's turned around and he's a multi millionaire within four to four and a half years of being fresh out of prison. And now he's a multi millionaire. So I interviewed him. Bryan: Being able to put him now on my channel, which I'll be posting that video on Instagram and YouTube tomorrow. No one else in the real estate industry that's doing social media would ever even think about doing that because they would say, "Oh, I can't associate with somebody who has tattoos and who's been to prison, that's going to ruin my image." That part, that uniqueness, that mystery like, "Oh, what's Bryan going to do next?" That's one of the biggest pillars that I have for sure as far as entertainment on my channel because they can come into my channel and not show up for a week, and when they show up the next week, someone's going to slap them in the face because I'm doing something new. Stefan: So, you're pretty much a rapper. You're like a rapper of real estate. It's interesting. I used to have a rock band and I wanted to be a rock star, and I think rock had one of the fatal flaws that the bands wouldn't collaborate. Like a rock band was just a rock band and they had their album and that was it. But rappers would always get like, M&M would get 50 cent on his album. And Jay Z would get, you know someone else on his album. So, there's all these collabs going on. Would you say collabs is the key to growing that audience? Bryan: Absolutely. What I think and it totally is, I think some people are afraid because they think, well, if I collaborate, people are going to forget that I'm a realtor or a real estate investor, whatever it is, they're not. Anywhere I go, I'm known as a real estate agent, the leader of my team. That's going to transcend whatever space that you're in, and it just opens up you to a new audience. I can't tell you how many people now have turned into clients or students that I've taken from the car community. Bryan: For example, I have another group of friends that are dating coaches, and I do stuff with them. So that opens up another audience for me. So, just between that and the car community, I would say that's contributed to an additional 20%, 30% of my growth and just brand awareness because I've been able to open those doors which I know other people would want to do, but there's this fear saying, "Well, I'm the real estate guy, I can't talk to the car guy." Because it doesn't make any sense when I think that's one of the key is to really grow your brand. Stefan: Okay, we're growing the brand. Now, let's come back to it. So, growing a brand is expensive, dude. I've been doing that for like, almost 10 years now. Growing a brand costs money. There's a reason why there's not a million brands out there because it's expensive to grow a brand. You got to monetize it somehow. So, I guess you're monetizing through real estate skills. And then you're also doing a coaching program. Right? Bryan: Yeah. Stefan: Cool. So talk about the coaching program, Bryan, what's some of the things that are in there? Like, you said, you got all different types of people joining your coaching. Who joins Bryan's coaching and what types of things are you teaching them? Bryan: Yeah, man. Modern Success, which is the name of the program. I started it like I told you seven, eight months ago. And it started because I was getting so many requests. "Hey, man, do you have any products on this or new coach and this and that?" And it became such a regular thing to get text messages and emails and DMs on Instagram. And I said, why not start something? So, what I do now is I created a private group on Facebook. We do one weekly live call on zoom just like this for about an hour, an hour and a half depending on how many questions people have. We're all pick a topic and lecture on it for 30, 45 minutes and then I'll open it up to Q&A. And then throughout the week, I also put four to five videos in the group teaching something, whether it's a skill or a little mindset thing to help people make a mental shift, but the focus is really, I would say mainly on three pillars. Bryan: One would be the business aspect, learning sales, some sales skills. Number two, being able to handle your finances and then eventually build wealth, and three getting your mind right. I think so many people, especially younger people now who grew up with social media will look at you, me and some other people who maybe have been putting in work for a long time, but they'll think that there's such a big gap between us and them that they can't do it. All these limitations coming. "I'm too young. I'm not from the right place. I don't live in LA. I can't do it." I feel like people have literally mentally crippled themselves into the point of what we were just talking about, where they'll see you doing it, they'll be on your program and they still won't take any action as I said. So, my whole basis of building that program was to get people off their ass and into action, and the kind of testimonials I'm getting and the results that I'm seeing are just out of this world. Stefan: That's amazing, man. I got the same problem now in my Instagram. I think I got to 60,000 followers and I got all these like, kids. 12 years old, 13, 14. I've this one girl, this girl from India she's like, "Hey, I have a crush on this boy. What should I do?" She's like, "Should I tell him how I feel?" I'm like, "Yeah, why not?" I said, "Ask him out to lunch or something and if he says, no, he wasn't yours to begin with." And then today, she texted me. She goes, "He said, no, he rejected me." I'm like, "Big deal. Fuck up. Move on girl." So, it's crazy. You got all these people, and monetizing that traffic can be cumbersome. Especially I got 12 year old kids in India checking out my stuff now. Well, they can't even afford $199 audio books. So, what is your coaching cost if someone wants to join that kind of thing? What's the price point? Bryan: It's $97 a month. I wanted to keep it affordable because I know, especially with my audience being people between 18 and 35, most of them being aspiring to become an entrepreneur or a business person that money is tight for them, and I wanted to keep it simple that way if somebody is getting in. 97 Bucks a month for most people is something they can scrape together if they really take a look at their expenses and get some basic finances in order, they can do it. I wanted to find that sweet spot. I will be raising it later on, but I thought 97 a month was the perfect introductory price for somebody. Stefan: Yeah. No, that's wicked man. I mean, that's 1,200 Bucks a year. I think it's a magical thing and you know, some people would say like the negative people like, "Oh, man, you're ripping those people off." But there's probably guys out there you're totally changing their life, you're totally changing their mindset, and you got to pay for curated content. If they want good curated, branded stuff, it costs money to put that on. I really appreciate that. Yeah, go ahead, Bryan. Bryan: Yeah, man. And think about all the money you've spent too, and I, and that I've spent and anybody above us. They've spent that money. They paid their dues to get that information and a lot of times I feel like if I was to take this precious piece of knowledge, that maybe I've saved for my paid group and I just give it out for free, people aren't going to appreciate it. If we hold an event. Let's say me and you hold an event and we make it free. How many excuses that are going to come up the day [inaudible 00:28:30] for people not to show up. "Oh, sorry, guys. It's snowing a little bit today, I'm going to sleep in I'll catch the next one." You best believe if we charge them 500 Bucks or 1,000 Bucks to show up, I don't care if the world is ending, they're going to show up to that event because they forked out their money and they've put some skin in the game. And that's- Stefan: The gong. The Gong came on for that, bro. Give me an instant replay on that, Bryan. Bryan: You got to put your money where your mouth is, man. If you want to learn from the best and get the best knowledge, you got to be able to put either your credit card down, the cash down, the check down, whatever it is, or we'll go back to the dumb and dumber days, an IOU, whatever it takes, you got to put something down. I mean, a lot of times, like I even mentioned earlier, maybe at the event I got, yeah, one or two pieces of information, but I met that one person who then later on gave me a connection or introduced me to somebody else, who then gave me that next breakthrough. So, you never know how it's going to happen. But you got to pay to play. You got to pay to play. Stefan: You got to pay to play. You know I love that, man. I think you're bang on. You go to what you pay for. It's funny. I do an event called Blueprint to Cash, and it used to be called Self Made Live and Self Made was like I would sell my book, and people get the book and they get two tickets for like 50 Bucks. That's how it works. So, they're overpriced book but underpriced tickets. So, you get the $50 book and the two tickets to the event and that's cool. I remember we do these events and [inaudible 00:29:47] 100 people and then like the afternoon comments that people leave, it's people leave the next day. They weren't committed. But as soon as we turned that event and is like a Blueprint to Cash, we sold for 2,000 Bucks now, same event, and we include their flight, we include their hotel. Stefan: So it's like a great experience. We got a limousine driving thing to like a dinner at either, like a flip, or my house, or whatever. And it's amazing man because people show up, they don't quit, they stick through it, they have a great experience. It's just, you can be in the free line, but it's kind of like going to Costco and eating those free winners. It's not really a meal, dude. You can go there and eat those little baby winners, but you might as well spend the $85 and get the hot dog and the drink. Get the real thing. Bryan: Exactly, man. Yeah, I agree. Stefan: Now, Bryan, let me ask you this. You're successful in a lot of things. Did it in sports, doing it on YouTube, you got a coaching mastermind group successful, real estate salesperson. Now, what's your obsession? Bryan: My obsession, man, and this sounds weird to a lot of people is just simply me pushing, we can say, barriers on my own potential. That's really what it boils down to because I've thought about that a lot myself. Like, well, what's this drive in me? What's this spark in me? It's really, part of it maybe it's because I grew up being told I couldn't do anything, and that I would be average. So now maybe because of that my quest is just, what else can I do? Like I'm already talking to one of my clients right now who we're about four months we're about to close this new development over here by the beach for like 5 million. It's going to be a sick, sick house, man. Bryan: And we're talking about going in together to open up a sports bar because I've always wanted to open up a bar. That thought wasn't really in my mind until a year or two ago, but I'm like, "Fuck it. Let's do it." So I'm all about pushing the envelope and just seeing, maybe it's not worth it, but what I can get away with [inaudible 00:31:39]. Like somebody said, let's try this. I'm going to do it. Another idea pops up in my mind you know what, let's go for it. Bryan: Thrill seeker, we can say. I really don't know what it is, man. But I think that is the best way to sum it up because I've gone in so many different directions that that seems to be the most concrete definition I can give as far as what keeps me going because that fire is always there. I wake up every day like, let's make it happen. I don't like sitting idly. I don't take vacations. I'm just like, let's keep going. Let's keep hunting like a lion waking up every day and just looking for the deer and the gazelle and saying, "Okay, I'm getting this one." Just being relentless. Stefan: I love that. Being obsessed with being relentless and being obsessed with what I can get away with. I got a similar feeling in me, man. I think we're similar dudes. What motivates you to be great at what you do? You could show up, Bryan, and you could be like average, you could be like a seven out of 10, you could be like an okay kind of guy. What motivates you to take it over the top and be great? Bryan: Great question. Even when I was a kid, like if we played video games and you were beating me I'd throw the control at you. I was like, "Okay, we're playing again." I never was okay being second place. One thing I hear now is that kids are getting like participation trophies,  just like, I'm a dude. That completely belittles the guy who worked hard to get first place. Stefan: That's we're all fair, man. That's it. That's we're fair. Bryan: That's what I was thinking. I was like, when I got the trophies in basketball or whatever it is, I put in the work. If we were to look at my life and the other kids life preparing for that game, let's say was like a one on one tournament, you would see that I put in the work to get first. So, with me it was about being the King of the Hill, not so much for the recognition but to myself to say, "Yes, I could be first." It's more like a personal achievement thing, and just having a high standard for myself because when somebody says average, in my mind I'm looking down to average and it's like why would I be down there when first place is, okay, this is where I'm at. Like, why would I look down and be like, "Let me step down to average." That just doesn't line up with me mentally, you know. Stefan: I love what Napoleon said. He said, men will die for little pieces of medal. Guys like me and you we want the trophy, we want the medal, we want the first place, and I love what you said about, when they give up the participation trophy, it ruins the whole thing. It's interesting I was watching a psychologist and he was talking about how men when they're with other men will compete, but then when you introduce women into the competition, the men stop competing. Like when women are competing alongside men, the men don't try as hard, and then what ends up happening in like the case of school right now, like the school system, is like men are competing as women and then the men actually, the boys in university and in high school, they don't even try anymore. So the girls get the high marks, the boy is like, "Whatever, I don't want to compete with a girl." And next thing you know, they're out being entrepreneurs or something like that. Stefan: Now, let me ask you this, Bryan. What's one moment where you thought you'd fail and this whole thing would come crashing down and it'd be over for Bryan? Bryan: Oh, man. Early on, dude. I mean, I dealt with those demons a lot in my first year in real estate especially, dude. I think my first year in real estate alone as an agent, I was probably in tears at least on three separate occasions. This is coming from somebody who until that point, bro, I can't remember the last time I cried besides, maybe when my grandma passed away when I was like 11. So, this tough guy who hadn't shed a tear in, I don't know how many years, 20 years almost, breaks down three times in one years. Bryan: I remember when I got my license, a buddy of mine bought a house so I got a deal right away. Like literally the day that I got my license, boom, I ended up helping him buy a house. I got another deal a week after that. I got a listing that ended up selling, but after that there was probably this three and a half four month period where I was just grinding man. Just nose to the grindstone like six and a half, seven days a week just nonstop in just the business with that coming, and dude, I went through every emotional up and down in those three or four months and every thought, every negative opinion that somebody had expressed when I said I was getting into real estate and going down that route, that image was vivid and clear in my mind and I could hear their voice nagging in my ears, "I told you, I knew you weren't going to make it." Man, it was tough. Bryan: But I'm so glad that I went through it, but I would say that was probably one of the darkest times because now that's when your own mind starts becoming your worst enemy. And that's a very pivotal point where you hit the fork in the road for most people, and they say, I think 87% of real estate people fail the first two years. I think it's because when they hit that fork in the road, they just succumb to the negative imagery and the negative voices in their mind instead of just pushing through because in those dark moments, what saved me was, every single person I had looked up to, studied, conversed with, and sat down with in that beginning process told me, you will go through that. Bryan: Like you will be in moments where you're going to cry, you're going to feel like quitting, you're going to feel like the world is against you, what are you going to do? How are you going to respond? And if you respond like everybody else, your results are going to be like everybody else. But if you keep going and you understand that, hey, this is going to work. People have done it before you, then you'll make it to the other side. But so few people can make it through that. Those voices, man, for my mentors and people I looked up to is really what saved me. Stefan: You know I've noticed during this show, Bryan, is that every single person comes on this show who's successful, we usually have only successful people. Sometimes we get a dud, but everybody who comes on this show and is successful usually has a really dark moment. And what's cool about the dark moment is usually the worst that moment is, the higher they jump after. Like, I had one lady, young lady. She's 29 years old. She was living in her car when she was like 18. I remember she was working at Cheesecake Factory and she made no tip. She made like $2. Couldn't pay her rent. That same young lady who is in $100 million development right now at age 29 because she was able to go in there and face the demons and face the darkness. Whoever's on this show, the darker it is and the worse it goes, the higher they jump. Why do you think that is? Bryan: I tell people you have to go through that. You have to experience that to really get to the other side. I believe in polarity too, to the degree that you swing this way you're going to swing the other way. For me, another way I looked at it mentally too was, everything that I'm encountering right now is a test. So, if I'm willing to experience the lowest of the lows, I'm now deserving of the highest of the high because I was willing to be in the black hole and swim in it with a smile on my face and not succumb or be afraid of it like everybody else. Because all those moments really are, if we break it down it's just unknown because we're not sure what's going to happen. We're not sure if that deal is going to go through. I tell people, you have to be willing to dance and have fun in the unknown like you're dancing in the rain. Because to the degree that you can go into that black hole and into that unknown and darkness, you're going to get that much more light on the other side. And I just think there's a direct correlation with being able to withstand. Bryan: Like, we've heard some really crazy inspirational stories like Oprah, for example, and to see where they're at now. It's like, well, look what they went through and look what they overcame. So to me, it's just basically like a video game, and if I'm willing to go through this, I'm unlocking that next level that other people aren't willing to unlock. Stefan: Right. I love what you're saying there, man. You are really unlocking the next level all the time. There's a great book I read was called What Got You Here Won't Get You There. Have you read that book? Bryan: Haven't read that one yet, no. Stefan: You got to check it out. It's about a guy and he's like a business coach. He's coaching executives. What he noticed was that the skills that got a guy into an executive suite like a C suite, CEO, CFO, COO, or whatever, would inhibit him from going to the next level of leadership. They'd be salty, they'd be mean, they would be harsh, all these things, and his job in his program was what got you here won't get you there. His job is to undo all those things and then teach you the next level of leadership, which is being a statesman instead of being a warrior and being somebody who has compassion and things like that, but still is strong. Would you agree? That's like a really big thing, is unlearning your last level to go to your next level? Bryan: Yeah, man, absolutely. I could even think of a lot of people in the real estate space who wants to start as a solo agent and then eventually build a team and ship more into a leadership role and position. Two completely different things. You could be, I know so many people who are superstar agents who are doing millions in commissions, but when it comes to running a team of being a leader, they can't do it. Because that next level for them to get to that level, it's a different skill set and know how. A different blueprint. I think a lot of people can't navigate that and I think athletes fall into this category too. We're so stubborn sometimes and hard headed where it's like, oh, no, we have to do it this way. We want to be a perfectionist, and we're not willing to listen to that next person or pick up that new book to teach us that stuff. Bryan: I think one of the main reasons that I was able to make this transition so seamless as it seem to people was because I embraced what you just said. I didn't read that book, but what you're talking about, I think I've gotten from somewhere else, maybe that story or the kind of like that teaching because that popped into my head immediately as I started growing my team was, I need to understand that I need to unlearn some of that old stuff to really break through to the next level. Stefan: Yeah, I think one of the biggest things too with an entrepreneur or somebody who's like hustling on their own dime is to go to that next level, you have to take a massive pay cut. Like you pretty much, you probably got to hire a coach because you probably can't figure it on your own. If you could, you would have done it on your own. So, you probably have to hire somebody so you take a pay cut on that. And then when you go into management, you're not making the commissions now. You're trying to get other guys to make commissions and they're not making money right away. So now they're not making money and you're not making money and you're living off your savings, you're living off your credit cards and it's all really scary. Then what people do is they go back to just being a hustler because it's what they know and building stuff is tough. Stefan: Now, let me ask this, Bryan, what do you think is the biggest cause of failure in people? Bryan: Biggest cause of failure. It would be this. A lot of people, let's say they want to be an investor or they want to be a real estate agent, whatever it is. I ask this to people, how long are you willing to fail? It's like a test. And if they give me a date, like, "Well, I'm going to give this a shot for 30 days or 60 days." If anybody gives me a finite date to how long they're going to try something I know they're going to fail. I think that's one of the biggest reasons, is when I got into real estate I remember people asking me, what's your plan B? How long you going to give it a shot? I'm like, "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to make this shit happen no matter what." Bryan: Hearing people who give that date, I've asked in the last couple of years, six people that have given me dates and all of them have quit or they're not doing what they're doing. So, I really think that's number one thing is, if you go in with the mindset that, "Oh, I'm just going to give this a shot for 30 days," and you have that date, it's not going to work. Stefan: Right. Yeah, it's like the, I'm ready to jump out of the boat kind of thing. I think it's interesting when I coach people and we do real estate. So, buy, fix, sell houses, and we teach them to raise money and stuff, whenever we get somebody's like, "Oh, I'm wondering payment plan can I pay." I'm like, "Bro, you're not going to make it. You got to be in, you got to be committed." Because when you try to call it, when you try to go to something on a payment plan, that's just the license to quit. Halfway through, you think you're going to save money by quitting while you're actually just losing all your money at this point. Stefan: So, Bryan, if you can go back to the beginning and talk to let's say 15 year old Bryan, let's go back half your life about 15 year old Bryan, what's a piece of advice you give yourself? Bryan: I would say you have to learn very quickly to stop living your life based on what other people want you to be like and what their opinion is of what it should be like. The last couple of years for me especially have been the most revolutionary because of that. The moment I was able to really detach from other people's opinions, what they had to say about me, how they saw my life and how they wanted me to live my life, it's like I could see the light and everything changed from that moment. So, I would say stop worrying about what other people say, live your life not someone else's. Stefan: That's getting a gong man. That's like a big thing for young people. Young people are always trying to please people and I've read a quote somewhere I was like, by the time you get to 40 you don't care anymore. You're just like, "Whatever man." When you when you get a little older. Stefan: Now, Bryan, top three books to change your life, what are they man? Bryan: Top three books. Thinking and Grow Rich [inaudible 00:44:03]. One book by Anthony Robbins, Unlimited Power was fantastic, and the book by Oren Klaff, Pitch Anything a little bit better. Stefan: Oh, Oren Klaff, yeah bro. He's from Cali too. Bryan: Yeah. Stefan: Yeah, Pitch Anything. Why do you say Pitch Anything? I think that's one of my favorites for teaching people to raise money for sure. Bryan: It just offers a very ... It's kind of like we were discussing earlier right. Unlearning some other stuff and really unlocking that next level and what he teaches in that book I believe, after you have a basic understanding of sales will take me to the next level for sure. Stefan: Yeah, there's some powerful stuff in their. Power framing, time framing, analyst frame, he's got some stuff. Oren is one of the best. Stefan: Now, Bryan, I got to ask everyone this question on the show. This is like my number one. Everybody gets this question and it happens to be one of the last questions. What's the one thing that young people need to succeed these days? Bryan: More commitment. I think people, no matter what space they're going into, especially now with social media as much as it's a blessing it's a curse, there are too many fucking options, they need to pick one thing and just stick with it. So, if they go to , they need to go all in and just stick with it and commit to the process. Everyone's one foot in and one foot out. "Oh, I'm going to try this then I'm going to try that." What do they call it? Jack of all trades, master of none more commitment. You need to double down and commit and say, "I'm doing this and that's it. Regardless what mommy says daddy says what he says or she says, I don't care if I'm not going to get any likes on Facebook or Instagram, I'm going to do this." If people would commit like that, just that sheer commitment like a lot of athletes give where they commit their lives to the sport, they're going to make it to the other side for sure. Stefan: I love what you're saying, man. You're preaching the gospel here in the church of The Grind. Now, Bryan, if people want to get in touch with you, how can they get ahold of you to interact, be a part of your brand, maybe get into coaching. Bryan: I'm all over the place, man. Bryancasella.com, B-R-Y-A-N C-A-S-E-L-L-A. That's my website. It has everything. My handles for Instagram and Twitter and everything else is just @bryancasella. It's really simple. Same thing with YouTube. Bryan Casella. Stefan: Awesome, man. Thank you so much for being on the show, Bryan, Respect the Grind, and we will see you in the future, man. Bryan:  I really appreciate it.  

When Bryan Mazlish's son was diagnosed with Type I diabetes, there were unexpected challenges. Managing diabetes on a day-to-day basis was tough, so he hacked into his son's insulin pump and continuous glucose monitor to create the world's first ambulatory real-world artificial pancreas. Now his mission is to make it available to everyone. Bryan Mazlish: A nice demo that we showed at Google IO earlier this summer, where we showed our use case for one of their forthcoming APIs. We’re really at the vanguard of digital health medical device enterprise software, and it's incredibly exciting but also challenging place to be. We're enthusiastic about the prospects for what we can do for a whole lot of people. Ginette: I’m Ginette. Curtis: And I’m Curtis. Ginette: And you are listening to Data Crunch. Curtis: A podcast about how data and prediction shape our world. Ginette: A Vault Analytics production. This episode of Data Crunch is brought to you by Lightpost Analytics, a company helping bridge the last mile of AI: Making data and algorithms understandable and actionable for a non-technical person, like the CEO of your company. Lightpost Analytics is offering a training academy to teach you Tableau, an industry-leading data visualization software. According to Indeed.com, the average salary for a Tableau Developer is above $50 per hour. If done well, making data understandable can create breakthroughs in your company and lead to recognition and promotions in your job. Go to lightpostanalytics.com/datacrunch to learn more and get some freebies. Curtis: Today we get to speak with a man who, after studying computer science at Harvard, went to start a stock-trading algorithm company on Wall Street until his life experienced a twist. Now he’s the president and co-founder of one of the leading digital health medical device enterprise software companies, which employs machine learning to customize and automate medicine intake, all because of an unexpected challenge that showed up in his life. Bryan: My name is Bryan Mazlish. I’m one of the founders of Bigfoot biomedical. My background is in quantitative finance. I spent 20 years on Wall Street, first at a large investment bank and then about a decade running a fully automated trading business where we built algorithms to buy and sell stocks completely automated fashion, and it was about 6 or 7 years ago that my path took a change . . . Ginette: Bryan’s son was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes, which Bryan says wasn’t entirely unexpected because his wife has the same disease. But what was unexpected was the intensity of managing the disease on a day-to-day basis. He was surprised with how antiquated the insulin management technology was. There wasn’t technology that could anticipate his son’s insulin needs and automatically give him the insulin he needed. Bryan: You have a need to take insulin to just simply to live. This is something that needs to be delivered on a constant basis, 24 hours a day. You can take this in one of two ways: you can use an insulin pump that delivers this in a continuous basis, and you can also take a once-a-day injection, and the benefit of the pump is that you can vary that at different points in the day. When you take an injection, it lasts for up to 24 hours, and it doesn't have the same flexibility, but it does have the benefit of not having to wear a device to deliver the insulin. And that's just the baseline, on top of that you need to take insulin to offset meals, primarily carbohydrates and high glucose levels. So when you're going to sit down to eat breakfast, lunch, or dinner, or even a snack, you need to estimate the amount of carbohydrate and glucose impact of the meal that you're about to consume, and then dose that amount of insulin, either through an insulin pump or through an injection at that time. Ginette: Figuring out how much insulin to give yourself is tough.

That Blind Tech Show Rolls Again. Bryan brings Allison and Jeff back to the sho to talk about some of the latest Tech news, gidgets and gadgets and the latest from Sonos. We are proud to announce that Twitterrific for the Mac is Back, Downcast just got an update and AOL Messenger is no longer. Jeff gives us an update on the fire that hit Enchanted Hills Camp above Napa, CA and how we can all contribute and support #RebuildEHC. Be sure to check the links below to learn more about what the heck we were talking about. :) Check out the Twitterrific Blog and Subscribe to keep up with the latest from iConFactory Google Bought Apple or Did they! Twitterrfic for Mac is here How to get apps back in iTunes 10 Safari Long Press Shortcut Gestures. Do you remember to ever long press? Read more about Enchanted hills Camp #RebuildEHCand contribute what you can and lend your support. Give by phone: Call Jennifer Sachs at 415-694-7333   See Transcription below.   Thank you for listening. Send us Feedback via email Follow us on Twitter @BlindTechShow   That Blind Tech Show is produced in part by Blind Abilities Network.   You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store. Transcription: That Blind Tech Show: Twifferrific on the Mac and Downcast is Back andSonos Gets 1 Bigger. (Transcription provided) [Music] Alison: Sonos One's which are the newest iteration of the play one, are the ones that have Lady A built-in. [Music] Alison: I did put the Eyes Free Fitness app on my phone and I'm hoping that you know buying some of the workouts for that, I will literally have no excuse not to, not to do it because my phone is always with me no matter where I go. Bryan: Somebody in New Zealand had something about unboxing one very early before the rest of the world which..... Alison: Oh yes Jonathan was very very happy that you know when he get, when these items come out he gets them a day ahead everyone else because New Zealand is a day ahead. Bryan: He should let people know that. [Laughter] Alison: He really doesn't gloat about that enough, but yeah. Jeff: So Alison you use your phone on a daily basis. [Laughter] Alison: The face ID, I'm still, I find myself still kind of getting used to this new thing called face ID. Jeff: I want to see the Grinch again this year. Bryan: So you want me to come visit? [Laughter] Big smiles okay, three, two one, welcome back to yet another episode of that blind tech show. I know it's been a very long time since we've been here in fact you've probably heard a lot of us on other great technology podcasts. I know our friend Allison Hartley recorded one of her regular tech doctor podcasts as well as she was on with the great people over at main menu. And you may have heard Jeff Thompson on with AT Banter and I believe he's got another podcast coming out with the good folks over at Mystic Access and you may have heard me on Blind Bargains but we finally got the band back together again and we're here to talk you through some of the holidays and the goings on now, so I'm going to go ahead and say yeah how you doing over there Allison. Alison: I'm doing okay, it's the day three of a four-day weekend so I'm just kind of milking the the time off work for all it's worth, I've been reading good books that I'll talk about later and eating lots of food, lots of pie, so much pie. Bryan: There's never such a thing as too much pie. Alison: No never. Bryan: What about you Jeff, how has your Thanksgiving holiday been? Jeff: Well pie is a continuum. Alison: Yep. Jeff: It's been great here, I've been bacheloring it, the family's been gone, and I'm living it here with the dogs, happy Thanksgiving, it's Thanksgiving everyday now. Bryan: I'm actually down in Florida still recording you see, we're all about bringing you the show. Holidays don't stop us. One thing I was very excited though on the plane ride down here, I was very excited some of you might have heard about therapy pigs getting kicked off planes. [Pig noises] I'm happy to report there was no therapy pig on my plane down here, just get old Nash in me. How about you Allison, have you ever been on a plane with a therapy Pig? Alison: I have never been on the plane with anything more exciting than another guide dog, I have to say. Bryan: What about you Jeff have you ever traveled with any pigs? Jeff: No but it, it would wouldn't be that bad if it was therapy bacon. Alison: Oh yeah. Bryan: That is true, that is true and for those of you not hear about that story it's actually not the first time a therapy pig has gotten kicked off a plane so, go ahead and check that out, it was one of the more humorous stories and, you know, it's great that they stand up for our rights as guide dog service dog users, but seriously, therapy pigs. [Pig noises] Now Allison, I think you're probably the only disappointed one because I'm hearing the Soup Nazi said no soup for you, no home pod for you this year? Alison: Yeah I mean I have really no reason to be disappointed. I have speakers coming out of my ears. [Spring noise and laughter] Alison: Quite literally right now cuz I'm wearing headphones but, I am, I am still interested in getting the home pod when it comes out, home pods I should say, cuz I want to get a stereo pair. I have my Lady A controlled Sonos speakers now, and I'm finding that that is honestly filling a lot of my needs in terms of playing satellite radio and playing any song that I could possibly think of. I do still want to get the home pods because I hear that the sound quality is gonna be even that much better than the Sonos speakers, but I'm not, I'm not tearing my hair out, if these new Sonos hadn't come out I might have been a bit more disappointed, but I'm okay. Jeff: Now you said they're gonna be better sounding than the Sonos? Alison: They are, they're going to have more tweeters and better far-field microphones for understanding you, the only limitation in my opinion it's gonna be Siri, I know this is a controversial subject on an Apple themed podcast but, Siri is terrible. Bryan: You will get no argument out of me, Siri and I, we're not even dating anymore, the relationship is over and.... Unfortunately this is not surprising news, Apple you know when they used to meet their deadlines, we talked about it this summer, it was a little odd that Apple was talking about this, it almost reminds me of you know back 10 years ago when they used to say there's an attack coming, it's not coming today, it's not coming tomorrow, but it's coming, and I kind of feel that's the same thing with (inaudible) Alison: Yeah. Bryan: Apple pod, they're not gonna be out today, they're not gonna be out tomorrow, but they will be out, probably around the same time that the Amazon app comes to the Apple TV. Alison: I would, I would say you're probably right there, and I would say that when they do come out they're gonna be a couple of years behind all of the other smart speakers with better AI. It's really, it's kind of gonna be sad almost. I really I want to see Apple push forward in this arena, but unfortunately you know, I, I've played now with Google assistant, I've had a Lady A in my life, I have been playing even with Bixby on a, on a Samsung phone, and yes you give something up in terms of your data, and in terms of your privacy, but when you're putting security above all, the AI, and the assistance itself becomes very limited in what it can do, and it's really starting to show in Siri when there are so many more worthy competitors. Bryan: Yeah, the Apple really missed the boat on the the home assistant and you know, Tim Cook was wishy-washy on it for several years and now it's just gonna be a speaker, I really have no interest, I mean I'm very happy with my Echo devices, heck, I got a small apartment you know, I've got one in the living room. They're $30.00 now over you know, the weekend... Alison: God Yeah. Bryan: I just don't have, I'm like, well do I really need another one, and I'm like, I've got one in the living room, one in the bedroom, and I don't spend much time in the kitchen so you know it's, there's no point really in getting another one but I, you just can't say no at that price and, how was the Google assistant, did you like it? Alison: I do, I actually I have a Google home speaker that I don't have plugged in at this point but on the Galaxy I mean it's just, you can just ask random questions and instead of saying, let me check the web for that, here's what I found, it actually just gives you the answer to your flipping question. Bryan: Yeah. Alison: It's really amazing and then you can ask like follow-up questions and it jives with what you were talking about and it answers intelligently. I just, you know maybe the home pod speakers will come out and something about Siri will blow us out of the water or something out of the speakers, about the speakers will blow everything else out of the water because they've had a little bit more time, but I'm starting to get a little impatient with Apple's obsession with, I know they want to get it right, and I know they want to have a really polished user experience, but that user experience is starting to suffer because of that need to be so meticulous, and so perfect. Jeff: Well I think they've actually, having it come out next year might be a good plan for their stocks in a way because people are buying the eight, or the ten, those are big items, and you're talking about $349.00 here. It's hard to comBryan when everybody else is you know flooding the market with these $29.00 minis, and dots, and Amazon, what do they have seven different items now in this department? The Look, the Show, the Tap. Alison: Now Google has three, I mean, it's a lot. Bryan: And, I'm hearing about headphones, Bose, I think there is a set of Bose headphones which you know, I couldn't afford those, but that have the Google Home built into them so we're starting to see more and more even headphones with these kind of assistants built into them and, I think Apple, you know, they've just been left behind and, not every company needs a home assistant so, I really don't see what the marketplace unless you are a big music listener, you know, or have capitol to spend, I really don't see the point to it, I guess I don't have a fine ear for music because I think the Echo speaker sounds fantastic and everybody I know that's into music says, "Are you kidding?" Alison: Oh no, oh God, no no no no no. Especially the Dot. The Dot is barely passable for spoken word, but even the big Echo, drives me crazy because it tries to simulate fake stereo, but it doesn't quite get it right on the one speaker so, it's, it drives me nuts. Bryan: What's the opposite of perfect pitch? Because that's what I have. [Laughter] Jeff: Either you have it, or you don't. Alison: Yeah. [Laughter] Jeff: So with the Sonos, you have two of them, that's the Sonos one you have two of them. Alison: Yep. Jeff: That does perfect stereo? Alison: It does, yeah I have them equal distant from each other on a table, and the stereo separation is amazing, it's really beautiful. Jeff: Oh that's great. Bryan: Are there multiple different kinds of Sonos? I've just heard phenomenal things about Sonos speakers, or is there one product line or are there different kind of product lines for the Sonos speakers. Alison: There are in the non smart, non Lady A connected Sonos products, there are three, well four technically different tiers of Sonos products, and it all depends on the number of tweeters that are in each speaker, and with all of them you can pair to get a stereo pair with the Play Ones, Play Threes, and Play Fives, but they become very expensive, and they have a sound bar, and they have a subwoofer for the television, but you couldn't pair Lady A with a skill now, to make all of your Sonos products somewhat controllable via Lady A, but the Sonos One's which are the newest iteration of the Play One, they look exactly the same except they have microphones, are the ones that have Lady A built-in. Bryan: Yeah well everything, everything seems to be getting smarter except Apple News, which you know, I often go through Apple news and my subscriptions when I'm putting this show together and, lately I've been noticing there's about two articles and then everything goes back six weeks, and they just don't seem to be coming out with a lot of content and as Jeff and I were talking about, a lot of ads you'll see an article, title of an article, title of an article, then an advertisement, and then a bunch of text, this is something about Apple and an ad and everything. Jeff have you been using Apple News, and have you noticed how down hill it seems to have gone? Jeff: I've noticed it's changing a little bit at first, the ads you can't even read the ads because that, all it does is give you description of it, and you have to skip over it, so they're not trying to sell to the blind. The thing that I noticed about Apple News is Apple shuts down at about four o'clock on Friday, there's no new news, they just kind of rehash the same stuff until Monday, and it's just like looking for an app update. If I get one on on Saturday/Sunday, someone paid extra to have that pushed out. Bryan: Yeah maybe I should go back to Newsify and actually reading my RSS feed for technology news. I'm not seeing that much content coming through there, I was I was really excited when Apple news came out because I thought it was gonna be great and I enjoyed it at first, I was using it all the time, but now I'm seeing less and less content and a lot of that content, there's nothing worse than when you're reading an article and like a paragraph into the article, all of a sudden advertisement is starts being read to you... Alison: Yep. Bryan: It drives me absolutely bonkers, and Jeff you actually said, and I'm curious because I read a lot of television recaps in Safari, where I'll say, Arrow episode, season six episode three recap, and it will, I'll find an article that will describe the action and a lot of times these articles, a paragraph in it starts reading an ad to me, you just got a pop-up blocker, now do you think those pop-ups might block those in article advertisements, or just really block pop-ups. Jeff: Actually it's not a pop-up blocker, that is native to the Safari app where you can turn that on or off and it blocks pop-ups. Now some colleges, if you're a college student, they use pop-up so you might want to beware that you might be shutting off something and not being able to gain access to so, try it out. What I got was Purify and that's P U R I F Y, it's a content blocker, and when you get that you, you purchase it, and I got it for a dollar ninety nine, I don't know if that was a Black Friday deal or a special over the holidays but, a dollar ninety-nine, it's very popular app according to Nick, my buddy up in Canada, and what it does is it works on your browser. So what you do is you purchase it and then you have to go into your Safari app settings, go down and just below pop-up blocker, you're gonna find content blocker, and then you have to enable it by turning it on. Bryan: Allison, have you ever used any kind of pop-up or ad blockers or anything? Alison: I do also use Purify and I find that that eliminates a lot of the ads on the websites that I use. What I love now also is reader mode for specific websites in iOS11, if you activate reader now, it's an actionable item and you can go to Auto reader and you can tell it that I either want reader to be active on this website all the time or, all the time for everything, so I have some very specific websites for which I just have reader all the time and I never have to worry about any extra crap on the webpage. Bryan: Where is that setting where you could set it specifically for an individual website? Alison: When you actually turn on reader and you've got reader selected, then there's an actions available, it might even be available for you to select it, and one of the actions is automatic reader when you flick down. You double tap that and then it comes up with a message that says do you want to enable reader for all websites or just on this domain and, you could turn it on for just on this website, and so like 9 to 5 Mac for example and a couple of other more the, more of the busy Apple news sites, I have since I do so much Twitter reading on my phone, I've got automatic reader turned on and it's changed everything. Bryan: Yeah that's something I'll have to, you know I I use the reader all the time, but I, and I remember hearing about, that you know, you hear, about so many new settings but I've never played around with it so, that's something I'm really gonna have to make use of, and by the way if you're out there and if you know of any specific ad popup blocker that might work in individual apps, let us know, you could tweet us in at BlindTechShow or shoot us in an email at thatblindtechshow@ gmail.com, let us know about that. This next thing is really interesting because I was down here listening, I have an app where I'm able to get any NFL audio feeds and everything, and the one thing that drives me bonkers because my dad's a little older so sometimes he forgets is I'm watching the Washington Redskins game here on Thanksgiving with him and I'm listening to the Redskins radio, the only problem is streaming audio is a good minute and a half to two minutes behind real time, and he keeps commenting about what's on TV and it's just driving me insane, I'm like Dad, remember it hasn't happened again you know, so, one thing that would be nice is if FM radio actually just worked on your iPhone which supposedly it could according to this article, we'll put in the show notes that it's built into the phone but Apple just will not activate it. Have you guys been following this story? I know it's been in the news a lot lately. Alison: I've heard two things about this, I've heard that Apple for whatever reason has just decided not to activate it but then I've also heard that the newer modems actually don't have the FM radio so it's a moot point. Bryan: Mmm okay, what about you Jeff if you've been following along to this? Jeff: Yeah I have but, you know it's to me it's like, is it, is it, am I dying for it, I don't know, I really don't know. Bryan: I think it'd be nice, just, you know to be in real time. I don't understand why they can't get streaming audio to be at least maybe you know a second or two behind. I mean it's just such a significance difference, I've got it put on do not disturb, otherwise I'll get notifications about a score in a game, you know, before it happened. The fascinating thing is during the, the Yankees playoff run, I went to my local bar with a pair of my head with the headphones with FM radio, and sure enough FM radio would get it like 30 seconds before television would. [Laughter] Alison: So there's no perfect solution. Bryan: No, there's not, I'd be like, I'd yell out "damn it" and people were like "What are you talking about, they've yet to throw the pitch". [Laughter] So yeah, there's there's no perfect solution. Jeff: I like tuneIn radio, I like stuff like that. Alison: Yeah. Jeff: If there's an emergency or something we got those alarms that go off and everything. I don't see myself turning it on, I don't know, it's just, it so interesting, there's so many resources, so many different avenues that I can get information that, just one more to be on the phone and then, where's my antenna. Alison: Yeah. Jeff: You know it's, now that we're Bluetooth everything so, do we have to wrap it in tinfoil? I don't know. Bryan: You just hold it up in the air while you're walking down the street like an umbrella. [Laughter] Am I getting a signal now? Damn it, the signal is better over here. You know it's funny because the one thing my headphones don't get is AM radio. Jeff: I think it's just as important to think about this. Now do we really want that on there because everyone was so excited when like your Amazon device could make phone calls. As soon as you make that phone call you're standing there for about two minutes going I can't walk away. Alison: Yeah, yeah. Jeff: It's not fun. Bryan: No no no, like I've said for a very long time, the worst app on the iPhone is the phone, and it's also my least used app. I wonder if I could take it out of the dock and put it on like page nine. [Laughter] Alison: You could yeah. Bryan: Yeah, you know it's funny yeah I've been down here in Florida like I said for a week and everything, so I've been in a lot of automobiles which in New York City you know I'm not in cars a lot, and I've noticed my phone still thinks I'm driving sometimes. Alison: My phone thinks I'm driving when I'm not even in a car, like I'll be laying in bed and all of a sudden that do not disturb while driving thing will pop up and I'll be like I'm just reading a book, can you go away? [Laughter] Bryan: But do you have a waterbed so maybe you're moving. [Laughter] Jeff: Too much coffee. Alison: Unfortunately no waterbed, but it's crazy I wish, I have it set on activate manually, so it should not be popping up at all, but it's driving me nuts. Bryan: Real quick for a millennial crowd, water beds were beds with water in them in the 1980s. [Laughter] Look them up. Jeff: California has regulations on waterbeds. Alison: Yeah. [Laughter] Right. Jeff: The other thing is someone told me about the notifications you know that, while you're in a car if you turn it to what is that the Bluetooth setting in your car mode, that that's supposed to trigger it, I don't know sometimes that some things are on, some things are off, I don't know. Bryan: Yeah, and I've got mine set the manual where I'm supposed to be able to turn it on, I have read in a lot of places and I think we may all be running different versions of betas, or some people may be having this problem, others may not and supposedly some people claim it's fixed in a certain beta. I don't even know if I'm running that beta, I think I'm one update behind, you know there's been so many betas out that I can't keep up with them, and a lot of updates coming out too, I notice all the time I seem to have like 80 to 90 updates every few days cuz, I self update, what about you? I know you guys self-medicate, do you self update? Alison: Well I'm constantly working on self improvement, self updating, oh oh you mean apps, yeah. [Laughter] Bryan: The apps, I like to make sure tha,t I like to read those little release notes, and the worst is we update our app fairly regularly, we're not going to tell you what we're doing. Alison: Nope. Jeff: If you get a self-improvement app, would that be self defeating? [Laughter] Bryan: I don't know, you know what, email us and let us know what you think. You know a lot of people are big fans of the Star Wars saga, but have you guys been following the blindfold game saga. Alison: It's been it's been rather epic. Bryan: It has, there's been multiple parts you know. We had, we even had my favorite was Blindfold game Strikes Back you know. Alison: And they did to their credit. Bryan: They did, they struck back hard. I'm a, you know I am a big fan of the games. Blindfold Uno, I've bought plenty of them, I know some people don't like them, I think Marty does a phenomenal job and, God I love the trivia games, and there's nothing like when you've got a, you're sitting in the store you got a few minutes to kill. I've actually set my Blindfold Uno to unlimited scoring so I've got like thirty thousand points in there, it just keeps... [Laughter] Every time the computer gets within ten thousand points of me I think it's cheating you know, but, he really does a great job with a lot of those games. Marty is a businessman and he makes these games you know, out of his love of making games for the community as well as to make money and... Alison: Sure why not. Bryan: I couldn't believe what, when Apple was telling him he needed to roll them into tab less apps in the App Store. It really seemed like Apple didn't know what they were talking about I, you know you could Google Marty's website, I'm not sure the exact site but blindfoldgames.com probably, or just google it, and he's got a blog that'll explain everything that happened if you're not aware of it but, I was really shocked at the stance Apple took against him starting out. Alison: I can summarize briefly if you'd like. Bryan: Sure. Alison: I've been fairly involved in reading about it. So essentially what happened was, and there's a whole detailed timeline on the website. Bryan: Start with episode 1. Alison: In episode one Apple was going through the review process for some iOS11 related updates for Marty's games and they noticed that a lot of the games used the same template. Now Apple technically has a rule that apps cannot be clones of one another, and not looking at the content of the games which are all different decided that these games are too similar and so we're going to have to reject these updates because they have the templates are too similar and you have to make the the gameplay different. Well the whole beauty of the blindfold games is once you know how to play one, you can pretty much figure out you know, several more, so Marty defended himself and said look while these templates are all very similar, the content within them is very different, but Apple didn't want to hear it, they heard, they're like 80 apps is too much. You have to compile them into less. Bryan: A handful, yeah. Alison: Amounts of apps. So Marty's stance, with which I agree, is that then that would make the apps too large to download because they all contain different voice files, and sound effects, so they're already you know pretty sizable downloads anyway, and it would hurt discoverability. For example if all the card games were in one app, somebody might only play one or two, and that might hurt his chances at making more revenue, and the man has got to be able to make some sort of money off it. Bryan: Sure. Alison: I get it. So eventually it came down to a lot of members of the community myself included, advocating with Apple to make them understand that this is a different type of situation than just the average you know, Yahoo up there trying to clone a bunch of flappy bird apps for example. And it worked, they understood, they eventually understood and had a conversation with Marty about, hey we understand that these games are different and now it's it's okay, when the review was passed and Marty at one point he was going to be taking down the games because he just didn't have the resources, either financial, or time wise to do the rewrites that Apple was starting with, so I'm really glad that this ended up, ending happily, and I got into some, some real Twitter spats with a couple of people who really think that, that oh, it's just blind people whining. No, it's, it's people advocating for games, which are truly different in the App Store, and yes blindness does have a little bit to do with it because we have a shortage of accessible games as it is, so don't take our choices away. Bryan: Would you summarize saying basically that Marty basically after the the Clone Wars beat the Empire? Alison: He did. Bryan: Yes. Yes. [Laughter] A Star Wars theme, yeah, no, not to make light of it, it was great that Apple reversed it's course and, Jeff, any comments? Where you following along on the Blindfold saga? Jeff: I was more or less following Allison on Twitter, I'm stalking again Allison. Alison: Oh no. Jeff: But Jonathon Mosan wrote a letter, other people in the community got going on, it was nice to see everybody come together for that you know, like some people were pretty negative, they were saying like "oh yeah, they come together this, but not for jobs" Alison: Some people were jerk faces about it, and I will call them out for that. Jeff: Other people were saying like "Oh Apple, they played the blind card to Apple" it's not that, it's like Allison just explained, it's more like that. It is kind of neat to sit back and watch how different people rise up to certain things and other people take sides, you know the bottom line is the guy is doing something. he has to make money. If he bundles them all up, and you only like one of them, you're not going to buy 8 you know, it makes sense, business sense for him, and I'm glad Apple saw it that way. Bryan: I think he's got a great price plan, because you know, yes, he's got a ton of games you know, nobody buy them all. You could test them out, you know he gives you a free amount of games with each one which I think is fantastic. How many mainstream games out there allow you to test it out before buying it? Alison: It's true. Bryan: So basically what we are saying Marty, "Stay Strong!" Jeff: And may the Force be with you. Bryan: You know something that just came to the app store new and I, I've gotta actually take a look at this, because I haven't exercised since last millennium, The Eyes Free Fit, you know Blind Alive some of you may know it as, I looked up Blind Alive, i couldn't find anything related to exercising. But if you look it up under Eyes Free Fitness, and this just came to the app store last week, and I looked through it, you gotta buy the programs, but it looks like they got a ton of different exercises in there, and I know they've been around for quite a while and on a lot of podcasts. Have either of you guys ever done any of their exercise programs? Alison: A long time ago I bought Cardio Level 1, and it is really great, and really descriptive. I did it a couple of times, I'm really bad with sticking with exercise routines no matter how accessable they are. So, it's really a motivation issue, its not an issue with the workouts themselves, but now I did put the Eyes Free Fitness app on my phone and I am hoping that, you know buying some of the workouts through that, i will literally have no excuse not to do it because my phone is always with me no matter where I go. Bryan: Yeah. How about yourself Jeff? You're an outdoor mountain man, have you ever indoor exercised? Jeff: I was actually testing her website with her so I got to get a few of those and she was next to me in the booth at ACB in 2016. It was in Minneapolis, it was really fun, it's really great that she's taken it to this level now that, you can even hook it up to your health app inside your phone too so.... Bryan: Wait a minute, there's a health app in the phone? [Laughter] Jeff: Page 9 Brian, Page 9. Alison: Page 11 yeah. [Laughter] Bryan: It's next to all of my pizza services. [Laughter] Jeff: So I suggest if people want it, it's Eyes Free Fitness, it's well described, that's the whole intent of it. She uses people who are professionally trained to come up with these exercise routines, but then there's also some stretching ones, and all that stuff. So it's pretty versatile, and they got some Yoga stuff in there, and then there's.... Alison: Pilates. Jeff: Yeah, lots of good stuff in there. Bryan: Yeah, yeah, my only complaint about this app and what she does, is she makes the rest of us look lazy. [Laughter] Can I set a New Years resolution in November, where that's my plan is to, exercise and, you know, a lot of people say they want to get in better shape. I would just like to get into a shape so.... [Funny sound effect and laughter] Alison: See it's a good time for me to get back into this because now I'm walking everyday with Gary with our neighborhood in Napa being so walkable that I actually am in a little bit better shape, so I feel like these exercises would be really great, you know especially if on the weekends when we walk less, it would really help me to get in even better shape. I'm still a far cry off from where I want to be and I still eat to much, but that'll never change. [Laughter] Bryan: I don't even eat that much, I just eat all of the wrong things, I've learned if I like it, it's bad for you. Alison: Yeah, that's kinda where I'm at too, I don't find that I eat these ginormous portions, I mean although I do like a healthy portion of food, but yeah, it's not the good things. It's a little light on the leafy green vegetables and such, although I like fruit. Jeff: You know one of the main things about exercise and all this stuff that we're talking about is the mindset and it takes a while to get your mind wrapped around it. I've been using a trainer for, it'll be coming up on a year and I finally got my mind wrapped around it after 10 months. I mean, it really takes something, I used to be in really good shape, I used to do a lot of stuff, I used to run and all sorts of stuff. But I am not being chased anymore so... you know. Bryan: It's may favorite line, "Do you still run?" "Only when chased" [Laughter] Jeff: Yeah, I think people who want to get back into it sometimes it takes a little commitment. You can buy these from $19.00 to $25.00 or something like that, but you have it, you can do it in the privacy of your own home, it's accessible, and it describes all of the stances, all the positions, well described steps, so if that's what it takes to get your mindset involved in it, it might be a good start for you. Alison: Yeah. Yeah can get as of out of breath or sweaty as you want, as quickly as, however quickly it takes and it doesn't matter because it's just you and yeah. Jeff: But make sure you have your phone notifications for driving set right. [Laughter] Bryan: Either that or in my kind of condition make sure you have 911 on speed dial. [Laughter] I got a good work out there, you know we're recording this the day after Black Friday, it's not even Cyber Monday yet but you'll hear this after Cyber Monday, and it was a low tech Black Friday for me because I got some clothes and everything, no technology but I wanted to ask you guys, what about yourself Allison was it a techie Black Friday Cyber Monday for you or no? Alison: No cuz I, I bought what I want throughout the year, I don't, I don't have the the impulse control to wait three months for something to go on sale on Black Friday, I just buy it when I, when I have the money and what I want it / need it. So Black Friday / Cyber Monday are always kind of a bit of a letdown for me cuz I'm like, oh this thing's on sale, oh wait, I already have it, this thing's on sale, wait I already have it. ]Laughter] Bryan: Got it got it got it got it got it need it you know. Alison: Yeah. Jeff: I just went shopping at Allison's place, I just walk to her house. [Laughter] I'll take that, that, that. [Laughter] Ain't got it, ain't got it, ain't got it. Bryan: You know it's not a big tech year for me because I'm not upgrading, I do need to get a new key chain cuz I have one of those key chains with the Lightning charger and for some reason the Lightning charger broke off of the key chain so, one of the things I heard somebody talking about was you know I've got all these kind of what I call lipstick chargers where you have to plug the cord into the charger. I heard they now got a charger out there that has the lightning charger built into it as well as a USB built into it and I think I'm gonna probably get something like that. Alison: Send me that when you find it. Because, send me the link, yeah because that is something, you know, I love my anchor batteries. I have the ones that are like even 20 thousand milliamps witch are a little bit bigger but I just put them in my purse, but yeah you've got to have the little the cables for your Apple watch and for your micro USB devices and your, your lightning cables all together and it's just it's a little bit much, it gets to be a little bit much to carry around. Jeff: Jack really makes a couple of these. One is a six thousand, one is a ten thousand fifty claiming that X needs more power so they made that one. They do have two cords, one is the Lightning port cord and the other is for all the Android stuff, your mini USB plug, and there's a third you can plug a USB into it so you technically you can actually have three by both outputs going at one time. My concern since their dedicated cables on there, are you committed to that if, what if the cable goes bad you know, I, I don't know but it does get a 4.5 out of 5 ratings on Amazon. Myself I like the big ones. Alison: Oh yes send me that one. Jeff: Cuz size does matter. Alison: It does. [Laughter] Bryan: Hey hey, this is a PG podcast. [Laughter] Alison: What, we're talking about, we're talking about batteries. Bryan: Oh. Jeff: I must admit I like big batteries. Bryan: I've heard that about you. Now Allison you've had the iPhone for a while now what are your thoughts? Alison: I basically really like it, it's nice and fast, I like the size, I have it in a leather case because it's glass on both sides and I do not trust myself with glass on both sides and I have dropped it and the leather case has saved me a couple of times. The face ID I'm still, I find myself still kind of getting used to this new thing called face ID. I find that it's very accurate. I find that even when it doesn't get your face it learns from the experience and it has been consistently doing better but it's not as fast as touch ID, the gestures for bringing up home and app switcher are pretty fluid and elegant I think. Bryan: Are you used to doing those after having the press on the home button for so long or does it take a little training yourself? Alison: I'm used to it now, I've had the thing now for a couple of weeks so I've gotten it back into my, into my muscle memory now that this is just what you have to do because there's no home button and luckily I'm not using any other older devices to confuse me, that's convenient but yeah it's it's never going to be as fast I don't think. Jeff: So Alison you use your phone on a daily basis? [Laughter] Alison: Pretty much almost every minute of every day. Bryan: Are you happy with the purchase, are you happy with the upgrade? Alison: I am because I wanted, I wanted the latest and greatest technology and now I've got it and I realized that sometimes that comes with some caveats so I am happy with it, there are some times though when I have just become resigned to entering in my passcode. For example if I'm laying in bed and I want to unlock my phone, I don't want to have to sit up put the phone all the way in front of my face, get face ID to authenticate me, wake up the husband, wake up the dog, so I just enter in the passcode and it's that's even become a little bit faster. Bryan: My dad was having trouble with his phone recently and I finally found out what the problem was. Alison: Yeah. Bryan: He's running an iPhone 4. [Laughter] Alison: Oh for goodness sakes. Bryan: Yeah, I said.... Jeff: Wait, you, you said it's running. Bryan: Yeah, barely, yeah he can make phone calls that's about it, I said no wonder you're having so many issues with everything else and yeah, he's getting ready to get a new one because my mom did order the iPhone 10 and he's gonna get the hand-me-down. I guess he's gonna move up to a 6 which is all he really needs. Alison: Yeah. Oh that'll be quite an upgrade for him. Bryan: Oh yeah, yeah, so but, my mom's got the 10 coming, she's got the, she ordered it online and has the two to three week wait so, I will not, not get to play around with it while I'm down here and everything but I've been you know listening to you on with Dr. Robert Carter not to be confused with Dr. Richard Kimble. Not that anybody but me. Alison: Not to be confused with John Kimble yeah. [Laughter] Bryan: I thought of Richard Kimble immediately but I'm probably the only one that did that so but you know you guys had a great walkthrough of the iPhone 10 and somebody in New Zealand had something about unboxing one very early before the rest of the world which... Alison: Oh yes Jonathan was very very happy that you know, when these items come out he gets them a day ahead of everyone else because New Zealand is a day ahead. Jeff: He should let people know that. [Laughter] Alison: He really doesn't gloat about that enough no but yeah. Bryan: Allison did I hear you do laundry every now and then? Alison: Every now then, you know I, the house-elves or my husband will not comply and I have to do my own. Bryan: Are you testing out that new GE, was it the GE product that you're testing out? Alison: Yeah so, so I have purchased the GE talking laundry box and actually we were in the market for a new washer and dryer anyway so we got the compatible washer and dryer and I've actually been doing a lot more of my own laundry and enjoying the heck out of it now that we have this talking machine because it's so easy to set all you really have to worry about is the start button and the little knob that controls the settings because the different wash cycles, because it verbalizes everything, you turn the knob, it verbalizes if you're on like cold wash, or towels and sheets, or casual wear, or bulky items, and you press Start and it says starting load on bulky items with an estimated 70 minutes remaining and there's a button on the box that you can press if you need an update of what, of time remaining and the dryer is much the same you just mess with the one knob, you can set your cycle and it just works. Our old washer and dryer we had the little arrows marked, but the one thing would spin, and there was another arrow that you could accidentally move, and Jeremy was really the only person who could set it without getting the other thing to spin, so I'm glad to be able to have some agency over my laundry once again. Bryan: And this works with all GE washer and dryers I believe right? Alison: So on the website it does say that it is, should be compatible with most, it should be compatible with the ones that have the ports in the back, the technician ports, but then it says these are the compatible models and it lists just a couple of different models. Slightly more expensive, that are compatible, I think that you can get this to work with older GE models if it has the port for technicians to hook up, but it's better I think in terms of the software working is optimally as it can if you can buy the the newer ones. Bryan: Yeah full disclaimer if your washer and dryers from 1974 and is GE..... Alison: Probably not going to work. Jeff: I do laundry and the thing on my washer and dryer mostly my washer is, there's that plastic cover that covers things up so you can't really tell the dial, so I took a needlenose pliers, it was excruciating sounds but I got that piece off of there, then I put some little markers on there, so now I just put my finger down there and I just turn it and everyone uses it that way so, yeah I don't recommend anybody to take a needle nose and tear that apart unless you know what you're doing but, yeah that's how I access that. Bryan: Yeah when you're like me and you live in New York it's great because I've got like fluff and fold where they pick it up and deliver it and it's pretty cheap and yeah I'm spoiled like that I think I've mentioned that on the show before. One of the things we did want to mention to the listeners if you do not have knfb reader you're just making your life harder, and it's a phenomenal app, I believe and don't quote me on this but I believe it's on sale at least through Christmas for about 50% off. Normally it's $100.00, I believe now it's $49.95. Go ahead and get that app, you'll make your life a lot easier if you want to read your bills or anything along that. Jeff: I really think if you're a student that that's the app to have. Seeing AI is a good app for a convenience, it's just a quick shuffle through the mail, but if you're gonna do bulk reading or if you want to save it and all sorts of things, you know, that's a workhorse the knfb reader app. Alison: I agree. Bryan: Yeah luckily I think all of us have easy names to pronounce, but I have a friend named Keith Strohak, and every time I tell Siri call Keith Strohak, it says did you mean Keith Sholstrum, did you mean Keith Beyer. It drives me bonkers, I have to go in and manually do it and I will put this link in the show notes. Did you know that you could teach Siri how to save names properly? Jeff: Mm-hmm. Alison: Yeah. Bryan: Okay I was the one who didn't. By the way ask Siri to pronounce Charlize Theron because I heard that's another name that she can't pronounce. Alison: Oh boy. Bryan: Yeah so if you're if you're one of those people and your name is Mustafi Mustafasin or something, go ahead and read this link and you know, maybe you could teach Siri how to read your name and everything. Jeff: The trick about it is that it asks you for the first name and then it asked for the second name, well I didn't know it was doing that so I said Laurie Thompson that's my wife, and then I said Laurie Thompson again. I wondered why it asked me twice, so every time she calls, are you sure you want to call Laurie Thompson Laurie Thompson? I left it I thought it was kind of cute. Alison: That is. Bryan: Now Jeff was a great guy and he posted you know happy holidays to everybody on the Blind Abilities Facebook page and I chimed in with my typical bah humbug and he thought that was you know the happiest he's ever heard me, and that's because he didn't hear how mad I was that my old Grubhub app that I've been running for several years because GrubHub has refused update is now officially dead. I finally had to update it and I don't know what I'm gonna do because this happened shortly before I left New York. I kept getting server error, server error, and I could not do anything so I had to update the app, GrubHub prepare for the barrage because I am gonna be hammering you every day now with fixing your heading navigation. I don't know. Alison: Now that your life depends on it yeah. Bryan: Yeah you know. Jeff: It's time to get that Blind Alive app, get that exercise going. Alison: Yeah. Jeff: Screw GrubHub. Bryan: I still gotta order dinner. I still gotta order dinner and everything. Alison: Try Postmates, try Doordash, you said Eat24 doesn't.... Bryan: Doordash I just heard about so yeah that's one I want to check... Alison: Yeah Postmates is also very good. Unfortunately in Napa our only choice really is Eat24, and that only has a couple of options. Bryan: Yeah you know one of the other things I plan to do when I get back from Florida is, because I've been running my old laptop here my Mac air, and it's so nice because it's running Sierra, and things have been running so smooth, as soon as I get home one of my first acts to do, I'm rolling High Sierra back, have you guys, I know Jeff's been playing High Sierra, Allison, are you still using High Sierra..... Alison: I am and for the limited number of things that I do on my Mac it's absolutely fine, I haven't really had any problems. Bryan: Editing text, when you're working with a lot of text and emails or documents and everything, it just befuddles me and everything, you know sometimes you gotta use the option key, and I did report this to Apple, quick nav does you know, when you use quick nav with words, it does not follow the insertion point, we did test it it is getting kicked up to engineers, there is a navigation problem with quick nav in Hi Sierra. Alison: That's unfortunate. Jeff: Yeah I'm using the beta's and you know it keeps on changing so I don't really complain about it I just keep using it and I know, I know it'll get better, so I just putz with it. Bryan: Yeah well Jeff you said you're running the latest beta and it's, you've noticed an improvement so, maybe it won't be the first thing I do when I get back to New York you know, maybe I'll give it one more update. I am not running the beta so I never run the betas on my computer and the word to the wise if you value productivity do not run those betas. Alison: Yeah, or have a partition on your hard drive or a separate hard drive on which to run them. Jeff: Oh my MacBook Pro [Inaudible] I'm not doing the betas on that so I can always go back to that if I need to but, you know I I usually forget that I'm slowly tweaking my muscle memory like you said Allison, and pretty soon I'm just readjusted. Changes happen and I don't know. Alison: Yep. Bryan: Chit chit chit chit oh wait, do we have to play now to use that song? In a more positive segment, I know we've rolled through some some negativity here, we don't want to be negative all the time but you know these are just some things that were pissing Brian off now because, Brian's been known to get pissed off. I always like to hear you know, what you guys watching, what you're reading, you know especially the holiday time of the year, there's a lot of great content out there. Netflix just seems to be piping everything out. Allison what you watching, what you reading? Alison: Well I'm still trying to work my way through Narcos, I have not had as much time for for Netflix recently, but I've been reading this really great book, I'm not sure if it's available on any of the freebies, unbarred or well book sure it's not free but it's practically free. I got off of Audible it's my Brandon Sanderson it's called "The way of Kings" it's part of the Stormlight archive series, it's an epic fantasy series, long long books, the first book I think is 45 hours long and I'm about 2/3 of the way through it, and it is absolutely amazing it's quite frankly taken over a lot of my life this holiday weekend. [Laughter] But it's amazing. Bryan: Well we're thankful that you were able to fit time in for the podcast. [Laughter] Alison: I did, I did have to interrupt my reading to.... [Laughter] Bryan: That 45 hours, that might take me 4 and 1/2 years to get through. Alison: Well I read at speed, I'm not gonna lie, I cranked it up to 3x and I can understand it just fine, so I'll get through it pretty quickly, but there's then two other main books, and then a little novella in the middle to read so. Bryan: That's a, that's a big.... Alison: It's gonna be ten books so... Bryan: Wow, wow, what about yourself Jeff, you been reading anything, watching anything? I know you've had some time alone there or are you just thinking in the dark? Jeff: I really got nothing, I guess I am thinking in the dark, family's been gone and I've been catching up on a bunch of other things that I hadn't been able to get back t,o and yeah, I got to get back to it so sorry you don't have anything to contribute. Bryan: That's okay Jeff. Jeff: Oh sorry. Bryan: I just finished down here with my parents you know I, they they were very nice and they watched, because their sighted with described video, the second season of Stranger Things, and the first season if you have not seen it as phenomenal I said to myself I don't know how they're gonna do a second season. It was really good so, it was very enjoyable, if you have not checked out Stranger Things on Netflix, you're definitely gonna want to check that out. I know we're gonna watch another series on Netflix that just came out I'm blanking on the name, the guy that was in Dumb and Dumber, not Jim Carrey, Jeff Daniels is in it, it's a Western that just came out on Netflix. I'm hearing great things about it of course I'm, like I said, God, Godlessness, or Godless or something, it's a Great Western, and I've heard from other people it's very good and everything and, yeah I've still got the same four books. You know it's so funny I'm one of those people that loads up all the audio digital content to all the devices for the travel and then I end up listening to podcasts that I have on my phone. [Laughter] During the travels so, like I said this is a That Blind Tech Show, we're gonna wrap it up here. We are at Blind Tech Show on Twitter. thatblindtechshow @gmail.com if you want to email us in let us know what you think, let us know what you like. You can download our feed through the Blind Abilities podcast speed of your podcast player of choice, victor reader stream or download the Blind Abilities app. Allison what do you have coming up the next few weeks leading into what's that holiday Christmas? Alison: Just a quiet Christmas at home, gonna take maybe a couple of days off and just probably still be reading the Stormlight archive honestly, although I, although I may do a reread of Harry Potter, I lead such an exciting life. [Laughter] Bryan: Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that. What about yourself Jeff, family coming back or have they given up on you? Jeff: My folks for 17 years they've been going down the Texas but they stayed up this year for the holiday so I got to go to spend time with them Thanksgiving. We were all up there and so they're here so we're gonna have Christmas there and my daughter and grandkids will be coming up mid-December, we try and offset it each year and so yeah, a lot of lot of family holidays and I want to, I want to see the Grinch again this year. Bryan: So you want me to come visit? [Laughter] Yeah I'm not a big holiday person so Thanksgiving I guess is our big holiday and, we just wrapped that up down here and Thanksgiving, I'll be heading back to New York in the next few days and you know, it's funny I'm sitting here in shorts and it's 80 degree weather so it doesn't feel like November, and then I'll go back to the 30 degree weather and, yeah amazingly Nash is not even shedding that much here in Florida, you would think he would get rid of that winter coat, but he is panting like it's August. This is That Blind Tech Show, maybe we'll have one more before the year hopefully, you know, all of our schedules have been so crazy we haven't been on a regular schedule, we plan to hopefully eventually get on it, but for now we are out. When we share what we see through each other's eyes, we can then begin to bridge the gap between limited expectations and the reality of blind abilities. For more podcast with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter at BlindAbilities. Download our app from the app store Blind Abilities, or send us an email at info @blindabilities.com, thanks for listening.