Podcast appearances and mentions of Patri Friedman

EPISODE #94: Welcome back to the pod! This week we have special guests Kelsey Piper & Patri Friedman joining Mike Solana to chat about our government's inability to build anything today, and the solutions that are being built. We discuss the history of seasteading, the evolution of charter cities, build vs. exit, the “Abundance” movement, Trump's 'Golden Age' and if we'll ever be able to fix the legislative branch.Featuring Mike Solana, Kelsey Piper & Patri FriedmanWe have partnered with AdQuick! They gave us a 'Moon Should Be A State' billboard in Times Square!https://www.adquick.com/Sign Up For The Pirate Wires Daily! 3 Takes Delivered To Your Inbox Every Morning:https://get.piratewires.com/pw/dailyPirate Wires Twitter: https://twitter.com/PirateWiresMike Twitter: https://twitter.com/micsolanaTIMESTAMPS:0:00 - Welcome Kelsey Piper & Patri Friedman To The Pod2:00 - Charter Cities & Economic Freedom8:20 -The Origins and Evolution of Seasteading12:55 - Shenzen & Notable Seasteading Projects and Challenges21:15 - Charter Cities: Esmeralda, California Forever, Prospera in Honduras.28:50 - Ezra Klein & 'Abundance' Movement - Will It Work? 34:00 - Freedom Cities & The Trump 'Golden Age'42:00 - DOGE Failures47:45 - ADQUICK - Thanks For Sponsoring The Pod!48:48-  Local Government and Political Reform50:36 - Meritocracy and Government Hiring52:28 - Democratic Values and Affirmative Action01:04:39-  AI and the Future of Democracy01:05:42 - The Role of AI in Governance01:12:07 - Aesthetics in Urban Development01:21:42 - Exit or Build: The Future of America#podcast #technology #politics #culture

In this episode of the Freedom Cities Podcast, Mark Lutter is joined by Patri Friedman, a pioneer in the new cities movement. As the founder of the Seasteading Institute and Managing Partner at Pronomos Capital, Patri has spent the last two decades pushing for new approaches to governance through the creation of innovative urban developments. They explore why Africa represents the most promising frontier for urban innovation, how autonomy and special economic zones can drive development, and what it takes to make new cities work in practice. The episode also addresses key challenges, including financing, talent, and how to build trust in unproven governance models. For listeners interested in the intersection of economics, cities, and systems change, this episode offers a unique perspective from someone who has been at the forefront of the movement to rethink how and where we live.

For today's episode, host Josh Sidman is joined by Patri Friedman. Patri is a libertarian and anarcho-capitalist thinker and activist. He began his career in computer science and coding but eventually shifted towards grander ambitions. Trying to find a society that adhered to his libertarian values, Patri began to experiment with the creation of new cities. This led to his founding of the Seasteading Institute, a non-profit dedicated to building floating communities on water. Leveraging his knowledge and passion for seasteading, Mr. Friedman works as a Partner at Zarco Investment Group and Pronomos, both of which are investment funds that raise the capital needed to build these cities. Patri earned his bachelor's degree in mathematics from Harvey Mudd College, his master's in computer science from Stanford, and his MBA from the New York Institute of Technology.  Together, we discussed floating cities, a relatively new concept called liquid democracy, and what his grandfather, Milton Friedman, would have thought about cryptocurrencies. To check out more of our content, including our research and policy tools, visit our website: https://www.hgsss.org/

Join John Bush for an interview with Patri Friedman, founder of Seasteading Institute to discuss the radical innovation taking place in free cities and communities. Patri will be speaking at this year's Exit and Build Land Summit, talking about his 20 years of work on how to exit the nation-state system and build new autonomous societies offshore. From Seasteading to charter cities and his city investment fund Pronomos Capital, learn the how and the why of starting new jurisdictions. Join us at the Exit and Build Land Summit 4, going live May 17th-19th. Get your tickets: exitandbuildlandsummit.com Want tips and fun stories about freedom, prosperity, and community delivered to your inbox daily? Join Live Free Academy's FREE daily email newsletter: https://livefree.academy/email 

Patri Friedman and Mark Lutter discuss free cities and "markets in governance" on the latest episode of Just Asking Questions.

00:00 Introductions[1][2]02:40 Values in governance systems17:33 Seasteading[3]23:35 Zone for Employment and Economic Development (ZEDE)[4]27:55 Physical territory requirement 34:45 Open source law40:14 Charter Cities & Pronomos[5]54:31 Reading list[6]58:04 Criticism01:02:53 GoodbyePatri Friedman: https://twitter.com/patrissimo https://patrifriedman.com/Jarrad Hope: https://twitter.com/jarradhope_https://www.seasteading.org/https://www.lawg.org/the-zedes-law-in-honduras-sanctuary-for-exploitation-corruption-and-organized-crime/https://www.pronomos.vc/https://chartercitiesinstitute.org/reading/ Logos Press Engine includes Logos Podcast and Hashing It Out. Hashing it Out dives into the mechanisms and hardware of the technology that aid in making sovereign communities.

David Friedman is an economist, physicist, legal scholar, and author.His father is the legendary economist Milton Friedman, and his son is the founder of the Seasteading Institute and Pronomos Capital, Patri Friedman (appeared on episode 32).His most popular book is The Machinery of Freedom, and he's written books on microeconomics and the economics of law, such as Law's Order, Hidden Order, and Legal Systems Very Different from Ours.In this interview, we talk about the legacy of the Friedman family: a commitment to the search for truth, and a little trick to express uncomfortable things with numbers.We talk about economic rationality, efficient law and the problem of public goods or why so-called "market failures" aren't an argument for government intervention.These are important terms to understand what the "competitive governance" space is about: civilizations all throughout history have come up with different ways to solve coordination problems. Legal systems are much more different than you'd think. We can learn a lot from Islamic law, Romany law or Saga period Icelandic law.These differing legal norms and mechanisms have an impact on the economic development of a civilization. They explain why some societies flourish or stagnate.Yet there has been little innovation in probably the most important industry in the world. Governments and nation-states are monopoly providers of their products. It is very costly and hard to switch your provider, which is why they are slow to change.David Friedman's work provides frameworks for thinking about how to change it, and to develop better ways to live together, to prosper, and to advance human progress. Get full access to Stranded Technologies at niklasanzinger.substack.com/subscribe

What does the future of government look like? Is constitutional democracy of the American persuasion really the best type of governance there is? People who seriously study politics and governance would most probably yell an emphatic no. In many ways, the contemporary model of government is very outdated. It stays stagnant in a world that's rapidly and profoundly changing. But how do we know what system works better? It's not like government is something we could experiment on. Or is it? Keep that question in mind as you follow this conversation with Patri Friedman, cofounder of The Seasteading Institute. Get to know Patri's views on experimentation with political systems and how they're applying their models to practice. If we are to build better governments in the future, we're sure to get some brilliant ideas from these brave pioneers who are testing what works and what doesn't. Follow this rabbit hole to see what practices are bound to trickle down to the government of tomorrow! Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! http://thefuturistsociety.net/

Patri Friedman is the legendary founder of The Seasteading Institute, and General Partner at Pronomos Capital, a VC fund focused on improving statecraft.Patri is the foremost thinker behind the idea of "competitive governance". Patri has been a huge inspiration for this show, and for Infinita VC.This makes this one of the most defining and important episodes in the history of the podcast.We talk about Patri's life's work and the venture funding side of funding new cities or governance experiments to foster human progress and flourishing.Patri talks about how ideas like charter cities, AI safety, internet money or life extension were part of fringe, cypherpunk-like groups.These ideas gained adoption to millions with the expansion of the internet, Silicon Valley culture and blockchain/cryptocurrency technology.After working on alternative governance ideas for 15+ years, including the foundation of Seasteading, Patri turned to VC as a way to realize these ideas.In 2019, he founded Pronomos to support charter cities. Initially, with little dealflow, new projects are now more than ever reaching him.We talk about how Balaji Srinivasan's book "The Network State" has added new fuel to the movement by innovating on a model with lower barriers to entry.The movement is now at an inflection point.The "zero-to-one" has been achieved with Próspera Honduras, and several dozens of projects like Praxis, Small Farm Cities or Kift are maturing rapidly.At this inflection point, the movement needs founders and entrepreneurs. Patri is planning to start a venture studio that is building a sales pipeline with governments open to new models for economic development and matching with founders to start them.There is no better time to build!Infinita Linktree: https://linktr.ee/infinitavc

Si chiama Próspera. Dovrebbe sorgere dal nulla sull'isola caraibica di Roatán, in Honduras, e dovrebbe essere una città ideale, futuristica, interconnessa, iper-moderna, sovrana: una città-stato con un proprio ordinamento giuridico, un sistema legislativo autonomo, un regime fiscale indipendente. Finanziata da fondi come Pronomos Capital di Patri Friedman, nipote dell'economista Milton Friedman, e da Signori delle piattaforme come Peter Thiel, cofondatore di PayPal, Próspera è l'utopia dei Tecnofeudatari. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The year is almost over. It's hard to believe 2022 is coming to a close and 2023 is only a few weeks away. We've had some really amazing guests this year, and I wanted to share with you some great excerpts from some of the episodes, kind of like a recap for anyone interested in learning more about Special Economic Zones and Private Cities. In today's compilation, we chat with Thibault Serlet, Francisco Litvay, Patri Friedman and Peter Young. We discuss many things, and here are a few concepts and ideas I think you'll really enjoy. Thibault shares a mythical legend about economic zones.  Francisco explains the philosophy behind free cities. Peter talks to us about why more countries don't go the free city route, how to go about instituting them & challenges along the way. Francisco talks about Prospera in detail and about the battle vs government. Patri gives us an update on Honduras and looks into future projects. Thibault discusses how zones are spread out across the globe. Peter tells us about corrupt countries and how to penetrate them with free cities. Patri talks about the power of exiting and voting with your feet and what needs to be done going forward. Francisco tells us the actions you can take to increase freedom with special economic zones. LISTEN TO THE FULL EPISODES 214: Stacking Laws Like LEGO Blocks To Secure Your Freedom – Patri Friedman 210: How To Use Special Economic Zones -Thibault Serlet 202: What Is A Startup City? – Francisco Litvay 192: Building Free Private Cities Around The World - Peter Young CONCLUSION Well, there you have it. Four amazing guests with four great concepts and ideas. I do hope you enjoy listening to these short excerpts from the podcast. As you can see above, I've listed the episodes in their entirety if you want to listen to the full episode. Merry Christmas

I'm with Patri Friedman who is a General Partner @ Pronomos Capital, the world's first charter city VC fund. Before this, he founded The Seasteading Institute, a non-profit that explores the creation of sovereign ocean colonies. What is a charter city? What does a sovereign ocean colony mean? We will explore all these ideas in detail with Patri pretty soon. For now, you should know that Patri is a champion for innovation in governance. Our economy thrives because there's continuous innovation happening when new products and services are brought in the market. That innovation is mostly driven by startup companies who challenge the status quo of established companies. But this dynamic doesn't exist in governance – we're stuck with the legal systems and constitutions we're born into. What if we could kick-start a new city with an entirely fresh take on society? That's the topic of today's discussion. == What we talk about == 00:00 - Introduction to the podcast 01:13 - What led Patri to start the Seasteading Institute (a non-profit that explores the creation of sovereign ocean colonies) 05:44 - The current status of the project 07:29 - What is the legal status of putting a house, in the middle of nowhere? 16:30 - Definition of a Charter City 19:13 - What type of governments would allow Charter Cities? 21:30 - Are some governments fearful of giving up control? 24:50 - Have you made any investments in Charter Cities? What are the exciting things that are happening in this space? 29:20 - How do you motivate these incredibly smart, talented, and motivated people to move to a new city? 32:45 - What does a seed investment/early stage investment mean for a charter city or a community? 35:30 - Are there any focus areas or geographical regions you're interested in that entrepreneurs can reach out to you with their pitches? 39:30 - How did your father David D. Friedman's and grandfather Milton Friedman's thinking shape your thinking? 45:10 - What is the basic principle of Anarcho-capitalism? 51:20 - Are ideas like DAO in crypto inspired by Anarcho-capitalism? 52:44 - Have you thought about what governance systems will make sense when we become interplanetary species? 55:45 - Any laws on who claims a part of Moon or Mars? 56:20 - What is Jhana Meditation, and how does it differ from other styles of meditation? 1:04:00 - Is there anything else that you want to add, that you wanted me to ask, but I didn't ask? 1:05:12 - Concluding Thoughts

Today's guest on the Expat Money Show is Patri Friedman. Patri is the General Partner at Pronomos Capital, the first venture fund for charter cities and network states.  He coded at Google for ten years, has run a small angel fund since 2011, has degrees in math, CS, and business, and has been a leader in the competitive governance space for over 20 years. Patri has board memberships and advisory positions across the charter city/network state space, he does talks, interviews, and events regularly around the world.   TODAY'S CONVERSATION WITH PATRI FRIEDMAN How can you stack different legal jurisdictions to maximize your freedom?  What is the number one investment trend in the world that no one is talking about? Which country, at the edge of the world, is truly pushing the envelope in the field of governance, and what can you do to take advantage of the situation? How can looking at laws, the same way we look at software code, be the breakthrough that restores liberty to the world? Where do modern flag theory and charter cities meet? What are all smart, savvy investors betting on in the future? Where are innovators looking to next in the world, and what can you do to get involved?   HOW TO REACH PATRI FRIEDMAN https://pronomos.vc/ (Pronomos Capital) https://www.linkedin.com/company/pronomos (Pronomos Capital - LinkedIn)   RELATED EPISODES  https://expatmoneyshow.com/episodes/francisco-litvay (202: What Is A Startup City? – Francisco Litvay) https://expatmoneyshow.com/episodes/peter-young (192: Building Free Private Cities Around The World – Peter Young) https://expatmoneyshow.com/episodes/thibault-serlet (210: How To Use Special Economic Zones – Thibault Serlet)   CONCLUSION What an amazing conversation I had with Patri Friedman today. I learned a ton of really fascinating things about law and governance and how to build a better city or country that suits the needs of those that want to live there. I think this is such a great episode to listen to. Don't miss this one.

The idea of leaving society to start up a new one isn't exactly new... history is full of people leaving to go start new countries. But the idea became especially fashionable in 20th century America and was jump-started as a reaction to the counterculture in the 1960's, and given new life by Silicon Valley entrepreneurs in the 2000's. Dave talks with Raymond Craib, professor of history at Cornell University, about his new book "Adventure Capitalism: A History of Libertarian Exit from the Era of Decolonization to the Digital Age" which covers the upsurge in these ideas in the 60's to today, and their connection to everything from Brexit to Seasteading. Learn more about Ray Craib's work on Twitter (@raycraib) and at his Cornell faculty page: https://history.cornell.edu/raymond-b-craib Adventure Capitalism (Book): https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/57700808 Keywords: Libertarian exit, libertarianism, Murray Rothbard, Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, Michael Oliver, Werner Stiefel, New Atlantis, Tonga, Minerva Reefs, Abaco, Bahamas, Mitchell WerBell, Andrew St. George, Phoenix Foundation, Azores, New Hebrides, Vanuatu, Stefan Mandel, Mondragon, David Duke, Bayou of Pigs, Peter Thiel, Seasteading, Joe Quirk, Patri Friedman, Balaji Srinivasan, Nick Land, Curtis Yarvin, Mencius Moldbug, Urbit, Hans-Herman Hoppe, James Dale Davidson, William Rees Mogg, Jacob Rees Mogg, Brexit, Sovereign Individual, Longtermism, Effective Altruism, Honduras, ZEDEs, Charter Cities, Liz Truss, Shankar Singham, Barbara Kolm, Mises Institute.

Kelly is joined by Patri Friedman to discuss many topics including his influence from his grandfather Milton Friedman, his father David Friedman and how he has chosen to implement a Libertarian/market based approach to making the world a better place. ...

At the center of the competitive governance movement is Patri Friedman –the co-founder and Director of the Seasteading Institute, who more recently founded Pronomos Capital, a venture capital firm devoted to transforming the “governance industry” by promoting the idea of startup countries.Patri was one of my first guests when I started broadcasting in 2009. Much has changed since he first launched the Seasteading Institute, and I invited Patri to share what he's been up to and how the landscape (seascape?) has changed in the last 13 years.Seasteading and related land-based projects represent the next frontier for radical libertarianism, following in the footsteps of Patri's father – the anarcho-capitalist thinker David Friedman – and his grandfather, the late Milton Friedman. Milton Friedman showed how free trade areas like Hong Kong could supercharge growth and lead millions out of poverty. Patri's ambition is to revive the fading legacy of Hong Kong, enabling the establishment of a thousand new nations – floating or otherwise – to pull humanity into the more optimistic scenario for the future. However, as we will discuss, these new governing entities need not adopt libertarian principles to still advance the broader libertarian agenda of enhancing freedom and competition at the level of choosing one's jurisdiction. What freedom could be more important?

From being kicked out of law school and in crippling debt to best-selling novelist, Joe Quirk has one interesting hero's journey. It was only as he hit rock bottom that he realized there was nothing left to do but do what he had been wanting to do. The journey of his life has led him to become President of The Seasteading Institute and co-founder of Blue Frontiers. Joe Quirk is also a science writer, novelist, and memoir ghostwriter, with a national bestseller in each category. He is co-author with Patri Friedman of Seasteading, an Amazon bestseller in the category of marine engineering. Joe leads a team of lawyers, engineers, business leaders, artists, and investors to establish the first floating community with unprecedented political autonomy in the waters of a host nation. Now, hear his take on the Essential 11 questions. More places you can find Joe: Twitter - @JoeQuirkExults Linkedin - Joe Quirk Books - Amazon.com/JoeQuirk Website - https://www.seasteading.org/

From monarchy to laissez-faire capitalism, from communism to anarchism, much has been written advocating for different political philosophies. Though it has proven much harder to test these ideas in practice, it would be much easier if it became possible to actually create new countries with new rules, economic systems, and social arrangements. Tonight we're joined by Patri Friedman, a man who has a proposal to do just that. Patri is an American libertarian, anarcho-capitalist, and theorist of political economy. He founded The Seasteading Institute, a non-profit that explores the creation of sovereign ocean colonies. If you enjoy this interview please subscribe to the podcast and share it with your friends, and don't forget to check out our website, futuratipodcast.com ERRORS: I wasn't in on this one and Thomas doesn't take notes on errors. Maybe just ask him if there were any whoppers and then keep your ears open during the conversation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Each year, tens of millions of people migrate from rural areas to cities—mostly in emerging economies, where populations are growing faster than governments can create basic infrastructure. To address the challenges of urbanization without industrialization, development experts, economists, and policymakers have proposed solutions spanning from increased immigration to better family planning.In this episode, we ask: could charter cities—a model inspired by the successes of places like Singapore and Shenzhen—be a path to accelerating growth in emerging economies?Special thanks to Patri Friedman, Mark Lutter, Mwiya Musokotwane, Isabelle Simpson, and Juan Du.For a transcript of this episode, visit press.stripe.com/charter-cities-transcriptFor more on Beneath the Surface, visit press.stripe.com/beneath-the-surfaceFollow Stripe Press on Twitter @stripepress

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/mantic-monday-let-me-google-that Let Me Google That For You New from Google this month: Creating A Prediction Market On Google Cloud. Google announces that they've been running an internal prediction market for the past year, with “over 175,000 predictions from over 10,000 Google employees”. 1 Predictive analytics.jpg Most of it's classified because they're predicting stuff about Google's corporate secrets, but some friendly Googlers were at least willing to walk me through the article and clarify pieces I didn't understand. The market, called Gleangen, is actually the second prediction market Google's tried. The first, in 2007, was called Prophit - the team included occasional ACX commenter Patri Friedman, who's since moved into the charter city space. (source) Prophit wound down because the founders left and nobody really knew what to do with; you can read about some of their findings here. In 2020, with all the uncertainty around coronavirus, some Googlers decided to try again. Gleangen is the result. Unlike most prediction markets, anybody can create a question on Gleangen. This usually goes badly: most people are terrible at writing questions with objective resolutions. Google manages by having a dedicated team of moderators who go over everything and amend it when needed. The market pays out in play money and the right to be on a leaderboard. So far it's not doing much else. The Googlers I talked to saw no evidence that company executives were paying much attention to it when making decisions. Why not? Hal Varian, Google's chief economist, said in a Conversation with Tyler Cowen: COWEN: Why doesn't business use more prediction markets? They would seem to make sense, right? Bet on ideas. Aggregate information. We've all read Hayek. VARIAN: Right. And we had a prediction market [referring to Prophit in 2007]. I'll tell you the problem with it. The problem is, the things that we really wanted to get a probability assessment on were things that were so sensitive that we thought we would violate the SEC rules on insider knowledge because, if a small group of people knows about some acquisition or something like that, there is a secret among this small group.

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Doing your good deed for the day, published by Scott Alexander on the LessWrong. Interesting new study out on moral behavior. The one sentence summary of the most interesting part is that people who did one good deed were less likely to do another good deed in the near future. They had, quite literally, done their good deed for the day. In the first part of the study, they showed that people exposed to environmentally friendly, "green" products were more likely to behave nicely. Subjects were asked to rate products in an online store; unbeknownst to them, half were in a condition where the products were environmentally friendly, and the other half in a condition where the products were not. Then they played a Dictator Game. Subjects who had seen environmentally friendly products shared more of their money. In the second part, instead of just rating the products, they were told to select $25 worth of products to buy from the store. One in twenty five subjects would actually receive the products they'd purchased. Then they, too, played the Dictator Game. Subjects who had bought environmentally friendly products shared less of their money. In the third part, subjects bought products as before. Then, they participated in a "separate, completely unrelated" experiment "on perception" in which they earned money by identifying dot patterns. The experiment was designed such that participants could lie about their perceptions to earn more. People who purchased the green products were more likely to do so. This does not prove that environmentalists are actually bad people - remember that whether a subject purchased green products or normal products was completely randomized. It does suggest that people who have done one nice thing feel less of an obligation to do another. This meshes nicely with a self-signalling conception of morality. If part of the point of behaving morally is to convince yourself that you're a good person, then once you're convinced, behaving morally loses a lot of its value. By coincidence, a few days after reading this study, I found this article by Dr. Beck, a theologian, complaining about the behavior of churchgoers on Sunday afternoon lunches. He says that in his circles, it's well known that people having lunch after church tend to abuse the waitstaff and tip poorly. And he blames the same mechanism identified by Mazar and Zhong in their Dictator Game. He says that, having proven to their own satisfaction that they are godly and holy people, doing something else godly and holy like being nice to others would be overkill. It sounds...strangely plausible. If this is true, then anything that makes people feel moral without actually doing good is no longer a harmless distraction. All those biases that lead people to give time and money and thought to causes that don't really merit them waste not only time and money, but an exhaustible supply of moral fiber (compare to Baumeister's idea of willpower as a limited resource). People here probably don't have to worry about church. But some of the other activities Dr. Beck mentions as morality sinkholes seem appropriate, with a few of the words changed: Bible study Voting Republican Going on spiritual retreats Reading religious books Arguing with evolutionists Sending your child to a Christian school or providing education at home Using religious language Avoiding R-rated movies Not reading Harry Potter. Let's not get too carried away with the evils of spiritual behavior - after all, data do show that religious people still give more to non-religious charities than the nonreligious do. But the points in and of themselves are valid. I've seen Michael Keenan and Patri Friedman say exactly the same thing regarding voting, and I would add to the less religion-o-centric list: Joining "1000000 STRONG AGAINST WORLD HU...

Episode Summary:What Does China's Crypto Ban Mean?Regulations Twitter Bitcoin integration Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyTokens talked about on the show:DEI, ETH, xSUSHI,CURVE DAQ Token,Guests: Maxwell Grosse Over 6 years of engineering, program management, risk management and business development experience. Former Boeing Defense, Space, and Security engineer. Over 5 years of cryptocurrency market and blockchain research experience.) wil be on to talk about SuperBid's NFT marketplace and update us on recent developments for SuperBid.Resources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Today's Cryptocurrency Prices by Market CapCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. This is flight 47 on the moon or bus rocket ship. If you can believe it. Uh, today's space flight will be hosted by me, Logan Ross, and co-hosted by Brian Moore, defy developer and Ryan McNamara, exit liquidity nation.How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. Hey, quite the name you came up with today, Logan just pull it right off the top. How was things in Logan's world? You Logan's world is going pretty well. Just keeping it calm, stay in busy, trying to, you know, just, just stay focused. Just do it. Provide the best moon or bust content in the world, uh, that I can possibly come up with coming up with all these crazy names off the top.So, uh, yeah, so let's, let's talk about a couple of safety procedures that we need to get out of the way before we can start the show. Uh, so first up I need anyone who is willing and able to please activate their. But in, into the on position, uh, I need everyone else to comment down below the crypto projects.You're looking at this week, drop tickers, whatever it might be, and maybe let us know why you're looking at them, what you're thinking about them. Uh, and if we get time at the end, we'll go through them all. Uh, after that, while you're down there, I want to point out a couple links in the description below.So first up is the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel. Uh, you do not want to miss out on this content. It's all the highlights from all of our crypto shows here at Benzinga. If you're new, make sure to subscribe to the main channel as well. Also, we have a telegram and merge. If you join the telegram, we'll give you a 25% off discount code so you can get a sick moon or bust a theory about.Designed by yours truly. Uh, and as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter and check out our helpful money site resources in the description as well. Uh, okay, so let's get right into the news. Ryan, you want to tell us about the sushi swap hack that happened? I think Brian could probably do a little bit better job as the defiant developer, but $3 million were stolen off of sushi.Swap from the Misa launch pad. Brian, do you want to go over this in detail a little bit more? Um, you let me pull it up and you go ahead and do a little run down and let you pull up. So this happened, was it yesterday, Logan, there was 865 Ethereum stolen off of me. So, which is a product on sushi swap for small tokens.It's essentially a launch pad where people can invest in a initial Dex offering. So similar to ICO, but it's called the IDEO. Um, so someone was able to inject malicious code into the software. So everybody trying to get these tokens or ended up just giving their ether to this guy's wallet. But luckily there are a lot of nice hackers in crypto.So this guy already gave back the funds and then some, so he's still. 864.8, Ethereum, which is about $3 million. And today he gave back 865 Ethereum. So maybe it's earning interest on it or something. A rumor has it that he got some miso soup delivered to his house. So maybe he was paying them back for the miso soup delivered to his house.I that's not confirmed, but that's what I saw on Twitter. So, I mean, if it's on Twitter, it's probably cool guy. I want him to hack me next. If he's going to get back the money, give back the money. It looks like this attack was, uh, called a supply chain attack. And I actually don't know too much, um, about how that kind of works.I was trying to look into it and get some details, but it's, it's a little bit more, um, involved or complicated than a. The, the flash loan attacks or, you know, that kind of exploit, it's not as straightforward or simple as, you know, you may rise in the price and then taking all out and excellent liquidity or taking everything out of a certain wallet or something.It's a, uh, a supply chain attack. And so it's, this is a new one to me. I think it's been around, but. Yeah, it's a little different. I have to look into that and report back on what a supply chain attack is. Next time I heard that it was a malicious code, injection attack. Um, and I mean, that one seems more, more common to me.That's probably the same thing. I mean, maybe it's just another name for. Uh, anyways, let's see. So how about that new, uh, sushi swap NFT. I'm Ryan. Yeah, that's really exciting. It's called show you NFT. And it's coming out this month on sushi swap. Lots of developers are working on this right now and it looks like it's going to be the first real big competitor to open.See, everybody uses open, see for NFTs right now. And like we've covered on the show. There's been a lot of problems with it. From servers from employees from a lot of different things on open. See it hasn't been a great experience for many users there. So this is going to be really interesting to see how this sushi swap.And if ti marketplace goes over there adding some really cool features to it. For example, you can place bids on NFTs and that either is usually locked up, say on open sea and you can't use it on sushi swap. You'll be able to earn yield on your. So this is going to be like particularly well for the people who have hundreds of NFTs and a lot of Ethereum.And, you know, they're going out and going on board apes and putting in 30, 40 eith bids and hoping that they get accepted now, instead of just having that be locked up on the platform, they can actually be earning interest on their Ethereum while these bids are placed on an FTS, which I think is really cool.There also, they're also fractionalizing NFTs. So you'll be able to get fractionalized NFTs on the platform, which is essentially buying a piece like a share of an NFT. We'll see if the sec comes after sushi for that. I know they're after unit swap right now and fractionalize NFTs are likely to be security.So there will probably be regulation coming four or five fractionalized NFTs. We haven't seen it yet. I mean, it's such a new space, but I really like what sushi swaps doing. They've been putting so many new products onto their website and I love where they're going. So what do you guys have to say about sushi?Swap about show you NFTs. What's your take, do you think they can think about sushi? Swap? I found my notes. Um, so the malicious code and the whole hack is somebody went into the get hub and change the wallet address to their own custom wallet address for the IDEO. And so they, uh, you know, everyone depositing funds just put it straight to this.Person's, you know, Ethereum wallet. Yeah. He was like, okay, well, now that I got that look how easy it is. He returned it, but that's really what happened. So there was malicious code put into the front end to change out the wallets and everything like that. So malicious though, wasn't malicious because he gave it back after a day.It might've been because they threatened to file with the FBI. But I think a lot of these people who do this in return, the funds are just trying to protect people from these bugs in the code. And they don't want to go to the government. I mean, so many people in crypto are libertarian. They want to deal with the government.Um, so I mean, this is just another way to do it. And honestly, it seems more effective because they keep the funds safe in their own wallet and they exploit something. It gains a lot of attention and then it gets fixed within a day or so instead of actually try and go to the government to get something done, which would take months or even years to do, it's kind of like hacktivist.Yeah, you have, there's quite a bit of that. And it's, I think it's a good thing because you don't have people just straight taking everything. Like you said, you have people trying to protect other people's funds, protect a project and make sure things are growing. And I like that. I mean, I don't want $50 million of mine stolen, but I don't have 50 million.Yeah. I mean, once you discover the bug, it's the classic prisoner's dilemma, whoever you report it to then has the opportunity to just take the money themselves. Right. So he has to lock it up and then hopefully he'll be a good guy. He or she will be a good guy and return the money. Um, okay. Let's see. So yesterday reportedly, uh, $1,000,000,001.2 billion of Eve disappeared from centralized exchanges, uh, glass nodes, reporting, some different things.Uh, but this one is from, I think it's called into the block. Uh, it was the people, it was the company that reported. Um, we S we haven't confirmed, uh, with glass snowed yet, but we're working on it. So if this is true, we'll just report it, uh, you know, tentatively for now, uh, and talk about what it could mean if it is true.So, Ryan, you want to take it away. So yeah, if this is true, $1 billion, $1.2 billion of each leaving exchanges should be pretty bullish for the asset. So if people are taking their Ethereum off exchanges, typically they aren't looking for liquidity. If you have your crypto on an exchange, You can easily sell it for FIA and then cash out of your investment.Whereas people transferring off of exchanges usually do so for enhanced security to hold over the longterm or use with the Phi project. So if you're using Ethereum with DFI projects, there'll be locking it into smart contracts. Maybe you're staking on eith too, with this much money, maybe you're using a different program to earn some passive income, but usually it's a really good scientist.Ethereum leave exchanges. That's essentially a theory that isn't going to be. At least on centralized exchanges until it's brought back onto these exchanges and sold for Fiat currency. So in my opinion, this is something that's really bullish. And we haven't seen this since. What is that like? No April was, this is a new record all the time, all time record.That's huge. But the last time you saw anything similar was back in April and you can see that was right before each shot up like 60% or even higher. It looks like it shot up from maybe $2,200 all the way to $4,000. So obviously we don't know if that's going to happen again, but we see when he leaves exchanges, especially in high volumes like this, a lot of times it's a good bullish signal for.Yep. And they pointed out the last time this happened, as you said, Ryan, if the price of Ethereum increased by 60% within 30 days. Uh, so, um, I got my fingers crossed that this is true. Could be good news. Oh, ready. Got anything else for us today on the agenda? I think we covered the news. Shall we hop right into the interview?Let's do it. Okay. So today we have with us a very special guest. His name is TiVo and he is a researcher and expert on special economic zones. So I'm going to bring him on to stream. Uh, Hey, TiVo. Welcome. Hello. Nice to meet you. Yeah. Nice to meet you too. How are you doing today? Excellent. Glad to hear it.Well, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I'm not particularly an expert on special economic zones, so I'm excited to learn today. Um, so could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, in various industries about special economic zones and then maybe eventually how you got into crypto? Sure, sure.So I'm the co-founder of a firm called the Adrian Oakville group where the only business intelligence firm that works with, um, exclusively and the Sez India. We primarily work with investors who want to put their money in the zone who want to invest in building a new zone and sort of do all of the background research necessary to guide them through that process in terms of crypto.Um, it's been more of a personal hobby of mine. I first got into crypto in 2013, uh, due to a conference. So I've been seeing sort of the, the, the different booms and busts over the years and all of that, the, the case. Um, but recently it's intersected with my professional career because it turns out that a lot of special economic zones are now trying to adopt regulatory frameworks to promote cryptocurrency, to legalize it in countries that are otherwise illegal.So it's this very fascinating trend on the regulatory. Okay. So for anyone out there who hasn't heard of special economic zones before, uh, could you just tell us what they are and what the purpose of them is? Sure. So especially economic zones are a part of a country that has its own rules and regulations separate from the rest of the country.Think like a native American reservation that is exempt from federal laws and can have a casino. If you're an American and legal cannabis. Well, sometimes governments that have a lot of very complicated rules for doing business. We'll do this with a business park or they'll do this sometimes with the whole city.Um, you've probably heard of them Hong Kong, wouldn't left Britain and rejoins China rejoined as a special economic zone with a lot of legal autonomy. Uh, Dubai is a city that has, I think 46, 47 SEZs it's just a city state of city states. Um, this is about 7,500 STDs in the world, 12,000 total, they're in 70 countries and they account for this huge percentage of the world economy, and nobody's ever heard of them, which is why they're so fascinating.Yeah, that is crazy. I had no clue that. I mean, it's, there's so many in Dubai. What would be the purpose of having so many in one small location? Sure. So in the case of Dubai, um, this is a common misconception. Dubai did not have any. So what happened is that you have this, you have this, this desert country in the middle of nowhere and all of their neighbors were politically unstable and had oil.So instead of selling oil, what they decided to do was to settle legal stability, and they outsourced the legal system to the best lawyers from the UK to the best lawyers from Singapore, they created these special economic zones for different entities. Uh, DMCC Dubai, uh, multi commodity center, uh, Dubai international financial center for different industries that had different legal systems.And because all of their neighbors were trying to pump the oil sort of during the gold rush, you know, the people who made the money, weren't the, the, the schmucks who are out there panning for gold. It was the people selling the pancakes and selling the shovels. So that's basically what Dubai did. Hmm.Fascinating. I don't know if you have an estimate, but what, uh, like what portion of the global economy or what effect, uh, of the total global economy desk Easy's play. Are you ready to be somewhat terrified? I'm ready. Okay. You're going down. Walmart. You're looking all of the plastic crap that they have.What percentage of it was made in a special economic. According to world bank figures. Uh, I'll let Ryan gets 10% about 50%. So if you're, if you're looking at the largest Sez is a special economic zone in Saudi Arabia, $1 trillion of money from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, you know, invested in this thing.Um, the population of the special economic. You have cities with populations, 40, 50, 60 million people living in China, uh, millions of people in India, living in them. And many of the people who live in Denmark only at most vaguely aware. So what this means is that. When governments want to try some new legal sort of legal system.And I have some very interesting examples of this, uh, with something like cryptocurrency, which is highly controversial, the moment they start putting it in SEZs, it's almost like they're testing something to implement on a more widespread national level. So it was very interesting applications. So what have we seen with crypto?And Sez so far. So in 20 12, 1 of the first jurisdictions to start regulating cryptocurrencies was the Cayman enterprise city and became an islands. Now came in Ireland, already sort of top rated jurisdictions. Maybe a tax Haven has its own issues, but it's sort of like the top rated jurisdiction within the top rated jurisdiction already.Right. And they decided to start regulating crypto code. And instead of actually reducing regulation on crypto, they actually increased it. But because they did this before anyone else, it meant that all of the investors who had regulatory concerns started investing there. So, um, a lot of these, the like the browser brave and a whole bunch of these, these, these, I think coin from, uh, are all based and came in.Um, other interesting examples. It turns out that a lot of these special economic zones. Have electrical generation. So during downtime, when you know, nobody's using electricity at 3:00 AM, right? So, and if you're have a coal plant, all of that electricity is just wasted. So in the past, what they've done is literal mining, where they actually will smell to metals with the excess electricity and like literally have the metal refineries and smelter.Is there any Iran, a country or cryptocurrency is legal. We had this guy on my podcast. Um, Iran has legalized Bitcoin and its special economic zones has hold a mining. Operations is actually working with all sorts of investors and what's even crazier. They're going to start legalizing it for retail investors for companies registered on the, on the Kish island, uh, just a few weeks ago.So we're going to see a lot more of that. That's cool. So it seems like SEZs are almost like a pilot program before it goes out to the entire country. Yes. Yes. So when, when China reformed from, from socialism to capitalism in the 1980s, um, they had just had this mass famine from rapidly changing everything to communism.Where about 50 million people died of famine in China due to economic mismanagement in the fifties, for a sense of scale, the entire death toll of all of world war II, including the whole. Is 80 million. So 50 million people starving China, 80 million people die in all of world war II. Right? So worst disaster in human history, maybe second, worst after world war II.So they really did not want to just like adopt capitalism on the national level when the switch to socialism was so disruptive. So they tested it in these special economic zones. And, uh, within the first year, 60% of all foreign investors. Coming to China was coming through the SEZs. Wow. So SES, these have been around for a long time, then it's not like they're a new phenomenon non, when did they start coming about?So I've actually been doing a lot of research to this. Um, if, if that's sort of an interesting rabbit hole, but, uh, the Roman empire to give you a sense of scale, one of their enemies was the city state of roads. Um, roads is like, you know, sort of the island that's right next to Turkey. Roads had all of this massive navies and the Romans had to attack by sea, but they're Navy.These were crap. Worst of all that the fighting Carthage at this point, this is 1 66 BC. They'd been fighting Carthage at to this point for 30 years. So their manpower was totally exhausted and roads were there could have been an alternate timeline where roads unseated, Rome, and wiped out the Roman empire before it had a chance to be born.But Rhodes had one critical. It's entire government budget, which is funded by a 2% tariff on all goods going through their parts. So the Rogan's created a special economic zone with a 0% tariff, right next to roads. And in five years roads with so bankrupt that they voluntarily begged to join the Roman empire.Wow. That's a cool story. So, uh, moving back to crypto TiVo, have you consulted for any cryptocurrency projects? Um, no. Okay. So what's the typical role? Like, do you see blockchain playing a role in these STCs for the, for the companies that you do consult for? Yeah. So, um, one of the companies that we consult for, have you heard of Kronos?It sounds familiar, but I'm not familiar with the audience anyway. So most is a VC fund. The anchor investor is Peter TLF PayPal. Okay. My wife works there and you should talk to Patri Friedman. I could give you an intro. He's the guy who runs the fund is actually investing. Uh, and they have a whole bunch of famous LPs, but I don't want to get in trouble, but less well-known well-known figures.I, I think Balaji is public. So I'll, I'll say him, but what they're doing is they're actually going out and they're actually investing in sort of like the really futuristic projects that are going through. Make the cryptocurrency regulation happens. So it's sort of the invisible underpinning and you have some servers, you know, you have a registered company in the zone, you have the servers in that zone.And as long as you're not dealing with us investors, you have to deal with sec. Um, you can bring in investors from anywhere in the world and there'll be a, there'll be exempt. So they're looking at projects and in Honduras, uh, Nigeria, they've already invested in, uh, looking at other projects in Africa.Yeah, don't want to get in trouble, but a very interesting stuff. So cool. And then I saw that one of your services is information assurance where you help companies verify and secure data. What are your thoughts on the intersection between information assurance and crypto and blockchain technology? So I can't really comment too much about that, but it's actually not information assurance or I guess that's part of it.That's really the big use for blockchain, right? But it's for online company registries. Um, because if you, if you just have like some random dude who just starts like a blockchain registry, right? You, you, you, you release the software online and get a bunch of users. It's not actually tied to any legal system.So it doesn't the U S government doesn't recognize this in contract law. But if you're tied to say the government. I don't know, let's, let's just make up a country, say Nigeria or something like that. And you're all Cayman islands. Right. And you're tied indirectly because the SEZs are. Can act as a metaphorical user interface between you and the government.So you actually registering your company with the zone and the zone itself is on the blockchain. That actually creates a situation where you can implement these technologies legally in a way that normally kind of bypasses having to like change legislation, to have blockchain company registration recognized by the U S government.So very interesting ways you can hack and bypass the legal system. Hm. So turning back to regulation for a second, uh, how should the U S and I, and other sovereign countries, and maybe how, how will Sez is playing this as well? How should they handle crypto regulation? Um, I can't really speak to that simply because I'm not a, an expert on crypto regulation, but my, my own perspective is that, and this is just sort of a personal opinion, not a professional.Is that the government should create sort of sandbox environments where people can, Hey, you signed this document, you know, maybe I'm going to lose everything and you, you, you acknowledge and you just try whatever. And maybe it turns out to be stupid, but I really think that's sort of the, the approach that, um, is going to generate the most innovation.Interesting. It's like we saw that Bitcoin beach in El Salvador. Like a little test city. Uh, yeah, that makes sense. I don't know anything about it yet, but, uh, interesting project. So TiVo, you guys also provide cyber security audits to your companies who are in SEZs. Why is this particularly necessary for companies that are in special economic zones?Um, you know, it's just sort of a standard package of it services. Uh, one of our co-founders Herzon on Flores just used to be doing cybersecurity. He did cybersecurity for Virginia police. So it's just like, Hey, let's just toss that in as sort of a service we offer, but really, you know, our, the, the bulk of our services right.Is mostly due diligence. It's mostly, Hey, I want to invest in X, Y, Z zone. Um, and working with investors on that front to get into the zone. I have some interesting sort of actually examples that are quite relevant right now. Um, right now, one of the big things that's, that's, that's, that's that's going on is Belarus.The Belarus industrial park, right. Has announced this complete cryptocurrency sandbox, but you know, people, I'm sure your, your listeners, or at least a good percentage of them will know that there are massive. Uh, protests against the Bella Russian government, right? There are massive situations where the government was almost basically overthrown because it was so corrupt by the people and massive, you know, horrible police, crackdowns, horrible treatment of protestors.Right. So we're kind of like the guys you'd hire before you go to Belarus to figure it out. Hey, if you go here or if you go to some other country, um, you're going to get in trouble and all sorts of weird.so my, my next question for you TiVo is about the types of blockchain implementation that you've seen in SEZs. Is it mostly like say payment processing where you can send payments like cross borders for very cheap, or is it more adoption of private blockchains within a company? We're an investment or is it more like blockchain platforms, like a theory or Solano where you can interact with programs on a blockchain?Um, so it's, it's, it's kind of disappointing. You don't really see that many. So w if you're talking about the well established special economic zones that are already in existence, you don't actually see that many real day-to-day applications of blockchain yet. However, to the extent that it is arriving, Uh, it's much more on the payment processing side.Um, it's less that the blockchains themselves are using the, the, the, the, sorry, the special economic zones themselves are using blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. What it is is that it's more that the, uh, the, the, the, the people. Are setting up these companies in order to operate in a given region are relocating to the zones and the zones are basically bending over backwards, going really, you know, all out, uh, in order to sort of help make that happen.Hmm. Interesting, interesting example. Right. So in may of this year, two of Dubai's most longstanding special economic centers. These SEZs have been around for, you know, 40. Uh, DMCC and the IFC Dubai international financial center. Um, these zones typically stayed away from crypto. These zones very much, uh, headquarters of site, Blackstone, Warburg, Pincus type old school wall street, private equity firms, middle Eastern headquarters for these companies.And typically the zones that have done crypto, you know, the zones that have gone for. I have been kind of like the zones in Iran or the zones in Belarus. And they've been kind of the SEZs in weird place as of the last six months, the big trend that you're seeing with kind of this, this, you know, third, big bubble in the last like six years sort of coming to an end is that the zones have realized, Hey, crypto may crash and rise or whatever, but it's going to be here to stay.And if they're not sort of on the bandwidth, Uh, they're going to get left behind. So they're adopting regulatory frameworks, which on paper look like they're imposing all of these sanctions on crypto, but by actually creating this environment, um, are actually able to sort of reassure investors that these are going to be stable places to invest in.So have you seen that special economic zones that have made regulation for cryptocurrency? Have an influx of investors come to them over the past year with blockchain exploding and crypto going up. So. Yes, not only do they have an N so Cayman enterprise city has, I think it's either 200 or 250 spots.All 200 and 250 are full with a huge waiting list for any office space. Um, I spoke to a guy who ran a random textile park company in El Salvador. He rans El Salvador's biggest textile, special economic zones. You know, all they do is like make t-shirts and white rubber gloves too, and good, useful stuff.And he wakes up one day reads the news. Huh? Cool. El Salvador's, you know, adopting. It doesn't think much of it opens his inbox and has, you know, 900 emails from random people, cold emailing him to relocate to his own. And he's like, what in the world is going on? You know? And you're hearing the most crazy stuff as soon as one of these zones even announced its crypto.Um, it, th th th they get bombarded, but the problem is that these zones have no ability to identify, say, Ponzi schemes from, you know, legitimate projects. So it's, it's, they're also terrified. Uh, a lot of the ones are, are full of Ponzi scheme. It's a total, it's a total mess right now. So it sounds like countries and their citizens have a lot to gain from introducing these crypto special economic zones attracting lots of innovation.Uh, but they do have to, you know, start small work their way up, learn the valuable lessons about the Ponzis and the real projects. Um, that's cool. What would you say the most important role that crypto or blockchain plays in these special economic zone? So in one, one really interesting trend is that a lot of these zones there's like every possible imaginable industry has a zone and the level of specificity, the level of granularity think of zones.It's like a tailored legal system to target a very granular, specific industry. Right. And I'll give you an idea. I was talking to a guy who does nonwoven fabrics, things like wool or rubber gloves, plastic, blue tarp, all of that's non-woven fabrics. And I'm like, so tell me more about the textiles industry.And he got really pissed off and he's like, I'm not textiles and non-woven fabric totally different industry. And like, that's sort of the level of meekness. Right. And a lot of these zones. We're office parks, a lot of these special economic zones where like, like, you know, rows of computers, cubicles, whatever, uh, in the Philippines, all over the world.And the workers are just never coming back to the offices. It's not a two-week lockdown. It's not a six month lockdown. They're all working from home. None of them want to go back to the Cuba. Um, and now all of these zones have this infrastructure for office space, which could be adopted for crypto, could become, you know, startup incubators, and they're suddenly left scratching their heads.So I kinda think that the, these governments are slow moving. Um, I'd say that they're trying to use cryptocurrency and blockchain as sort of a replacement in half the cases. It's a replacement for anchor tenants who disappeared. And then the other half of cases, they're kind of late to the bandwagon and they're desperately trying to find their way to get in.So it's, it's generally one of two things and occasionally you have some really forward-thinking, you know, jurisdiction. You have three or four. That I actually are, but yeah, that, that, that actually sort of our foreign thing, but usually it's fear and a fear of missing out. Yeah. I can see that. Well, how big are special economic zones?W w what's the range or how can you tell where it's located? All right. So I have two sort of extreme stories. Um, there, the us has something called foreign trade zones. There's about 250 300. All they are. Is that good? The enter and exit the foreign trade zone legally haven't entered the U S so the idea is that you're building a car, you import the tires from, you know, Germany or whatever you put them onto the car and they don't have to pay the tariffs.So the us has like the most basic lowest level of Sez. They barely even count. I, I read online that in San Jose, California, when I was visiting there, then the special economic zone. So I messaged the guy and I'm like, Hey, can I visit the zone? And he's like, oh, sure. And the first bad sinus, he says, nobody's visited me in years.So he takes me to this, you know, 40 story building. Right. And I go into this building and I go up this elevator and there's this dusty little office that is, um, you know, three meters by two meters like this, like dusty, tiny one extreme. And that was the foreign trade zone. That, that, that was. Um, uh, so on the, on the largest and, um, you, you have in El Salvador the same within a few months of, of, of, uh, El Salvador announcing that they were going to Bitcoin.China announced the zone several hundred square kilometers. That's going to encompass 20% of El Salvador's coastline. So. So, if you look at these zones into the in desert countries like Saudi Arabia, or even the UAE or Oman, right. You have zones that are hundreds of square kilometers. So it's really the whole gamut in terms of population.Once again, dusty closet, uh, Chinese Ken's in population. How do you delegate, uh, especially getting an exam, like H how do you just say, like, Hey, this is the zone, this is what we're doing. So there's two ways that special economic zones, uh, come about. Um, the first is sort of, application-based think a government official with a Sharpie drawing on a map from now on this area over here will be the special economic zone.That's kind of like the China model. You know, it's the pointing at the map, the tapping, we will have economic development. Um, the other model is application-based. So that's like Columbia, where if you own say two or three square kilometers of land and meet this long checklist of requirements, you file an application and you get, um, you get special economic zone status on their land.So sometimes they're started by the government. Sometimes just started by business. Uh, we got stats that our company. One third are, are purely government. One third are purely private and one third public private partnerships. So it's almost exactly evenly divided. Um, but the extent of the private designation is pretty incredible because you have the city of Google, uh, Gurgaon and India, and they switched the names about 10 years ago.And the entire zone has private water system, private police, private fire department, private electricity, primary management, nothing is done by the government at all. And you have zones that are taking this even further in Honduras. You can even apply to have entirely privatized legal systems for all civil law.So anything that's not criminal law that's in these Honduras is Adams. That's going to be special economic. It goes to a fully privatized legal system within the zone. And it's scaring a lot of people and you know, whether or not it works out, I think is still up for debate, but they go pretty far sometimes by the way, constellation 1 million.So, wow. That's incredible. And that's super interesting. I'm really surprised. I haven't heard of that. And I'm sure that's a super interesting case study to research about, uh, have you done some research on this? Like how is it really playing out? Because I haven't heard. Okay. How how's what playing outside privatization in, in these SEZs that are doing this.Um, as far as I can tell, it's a roll of the dice. Most of the time, you're going to get a two to five and not much will happen either way. Sometimes you get a six and you get the city of Shenzen, you know, which goes from a fishing village of 60,000 to a mega city of 60 million. And like 40 years and accounts for 60% of China's investment than 70% of their things.You know, you get retarded, crazy results. One way. Sometimes you get golden triangle Sez in Myanmar. The legal autonomy for some zones enables the worst in humanity. So the triads have their own special economic zone in Laos, on the border with me and mark and they have a casino, but it's known for human trafficking.Uh, 245 women were abducted and forced into prostitution recently freed by ocean authorities in this zone, you have wildlife smuggling, um, and there's actually YouTube videos. If you look up, uh, golden triangle, uh, special economic zone on YouTube, they, they, they, they, they map mass manufacture methamphetamines.Um, they, they have, they have like lions that they like make fight and cages with each other. And. Uh, they have like all sorts of animals that they take apart for traditional medicine. So you have the worst possible and humanity and the best possible. And it's, you know, you're kind of gambling as a country in this.There's not really much of a way to predict what the results were. These are wild. One last thing from, from me is can, uh, we saw you talking about a start-up society. Can you just tell us a brief example? We don't have to go too deep into it, but what a start-up society is and how they correlate to SEZs.Sure. So I started in 2015, a nonprofit think tank called the startups and studies foundation. I left in 2017. Um, a startup society is just. Anybody who's trying to create a society to Nova. So say the country of Catalonia before it becomes a country while it's still like an independence movement is a start-up society or a special economic zone could be another type of.Gotcha. Interesting. So I have a question for you. You say the us government, uh, contracts, you to create a crypto sandbox in the country. What would you pitch to them? Ooh, good question. Um, You know, w what I would do probably, and there's just sort of, the way I am is I would do a crap ton of research, and I would find a ton of people.Who've done a lot of research. Um, and I'd go about it by interviewing about two or 300. And I know I'm not just giving you an answer like plastics, but I go back, I try to interview two or 300 business people who do cryptocurrency, um, at all sides. It's very new people, people who are sort of on the very high end of companies, very well.And I get, you know, all of their top five regulatory pain points, uh, get all the interviews for the top five regulatory pain points for 200 people. And, uh, based off of that, I try to come up with like the three D I wouldn't try to do too much. I'd just try to fix the three biggest, most common pain points to all of the interviews.And really, I think that the, the best results for these kinds of things is. You know, really ask the people involved and not try to do it in the abstract, although I'm sure that if I was like a crypto lawyer, I could just say, you know, plastics or whatever. Very cool. And those location matter when it comes to Cristo.Yes. Yes it does. And I'd say that it matters for three reasons. One, you probably are actually going to be doing to take advantage of a lot of the incentives. You actually have to be physically. So you want to be in a nice location where there's not corruption. That's really beautiful. Um, I live in Switzerland, uh, actually live 20 minutes from Lichtenstein, which is one of the, the crypto capitals of the world and maybe 30 minutes to the other direction from zoo.Right. It's such a beautiful country that that's totally white. People are coming. Even if the regulations aren't say as good as the next reason why location matters is because the regulation can change. The voters of the country can just say overnight new election comes as a coup you know, um, okay.We're just getting rid of the special economic zones and by the way, Uh, we want you to either go to jail for 15 years, we're turning all of your keys and we're taking all of your crypto, you know, so that totally can happen. And in fact, I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure. At some point the government takes there's enough crypto rich people that are there for a conference we'll just like start arresting people and demanding keys on trumped up stuff.So number one, location actually matters. Number two is, uh, you don't want, you know, to have a corruption and number three has electricity. The average cost per kilowatt hour globally as 14 cents. Um, you can get half that in some places. So if you're especially doing mining, uh, that's very valuable. However, like those zones I mentioned in Iran, you know, it's, it's, it's, they, they in fact will subsidize your electricity in some cases.Interesting. So earlier this year we saw China banned Bitcoin mining. They've basically taken control over it and issued their own central bank, digital currency. Instead, are we seeing China do any experiments in their special economic zones with crypto? Okay. Want to know something LR. This is going to blow your minds again.Are you ready please? Do. I was in 500 special economic zones in China, right? Oh, how many Chinese special economic zones are there? Run by Chinese corporations outside of. Oh, I, I it's either going to be a really high number or I'm imagining a really high number is going to be a high number. But could you say that question one more time?How many companies are they're run by the Chinese government and Chinese state run companies, Chinese special economic sounds outside of China? Well, there's about 10,000 of them worldwide and 2,500 are in China already. So that leaves about 7,500. I have no clue, maybe 2000, if it's a high number. Well, you're, you're over it, but there's 500 Chinese SEZs outside of China.And so what qualifies it as a Chinese SCC? Like a special economic zone, that's run by any Chinese company. That definition is if the usually zones have an operator, which is kind of like the country that owns the land, builds the buildings, cleans the law and whatever, if that company is Chinese, we have a, by the way, we're about to publish the world's first map of every single special economic zone on earth and took us two years of work.Um, but, but one of the data we collected was to see where all the Chinese. And it's terrifying because in some of the most extreme cases, we found Chinese SEZs outside of us military basis. So the U S has all of these overseas bases and the like, like a bunch of idiots, the U S government is, you know, Hey, we're going to go in through military imperialism, spend $2 trillion and then leave Afghanistan 20 years later, the Chinese.No we're going to do, we're going to build a happy mall right next to the U S military base and invite TGI Fridays to the shopping mall. So all the off duty soldiers will spend money on us, government money in our shopping, bubbles find like Chinese shopping miles outside of any military base in Africa, you find that there's military basis.The only connection they have to the outside world are Chinese freeways and Chinese railroads. You know, I don't think it's actually that the trends are going to shut it off. I just think it's that they're like taking all the money from the U S government basically indirectly, um, in terms of, uh, cryptocurrency, um, you know, the Chinese are always up to, uh, they really want to promote, you know, Th th the digitization of the, of, of the Yuan and promoting sort of the digital one as the one world currency that's running administered by China.So, you know, I think you're going to just see that be implemented. Um, and all of the zones, I have kind of an interesting little anecdote of this, and I don't want to mention the zone cause they're good people. I don't want to embarrass them, but one of the largest special economic zones in Africa, our team is about to do it.And we emailed them and we're like, Hey, we heard your zone splint by the Chinese and villain. No, no Chinese people here, you know, it's all Chinese characters, it's all a, we chat, pay every single star, um, uh, you know, giant Chinese flag that says, uh, uh, sort of, you know, welcome home. And, um, you have zones with names like qualling special economic zone in Georgia, you know, the country of Georgia.Hm. So I'm guessing that these countries let China have these special economic zones just for the purpose of developing their own economies as well. Yes. And you know, to be fair, I think the reason why China has done so well with the SCCs is because it's actually pretty good for, you know, the, the, the locals peaceful.Yeah. There's there's problems there. Chicanery, there are corruptions, but many of the time it's. All the men in your town suddenly get jobs that pay twice as much working for the Chinese factory, where there's been no development in a war torn country for 20 years, you know, you're going to be very supportive of China, right?They're doing what sort of, uh, America wishes it did during the cold war, but a zillion times better. And I think they learned that from the U S. Very interesting. Do you, uh, do any, like personally, do you invest in cryptos? Do you follow any projects or are you into that space at all? No comment. No, I got it.Yeah. That makes sense. Are you interested in the, in NFL? Um, okay. I think NFTs are totally stupid. The reason why is because I think intellectual property is like an outdated sort of institution. We need to be moving towards, you know, open source, copyright free. So, uh, to the extent the NFTs are, are, are.For people claiming ownership of like digital assets. I think that's like really the wrong direction. Um, however, I imagine that there's a ton of other non-trivial applications out there, so I'm not hating on those, but I am hating on, uh, what is it? Crypto kitties or whatever has.It's interesting to see that these digital assets are the first type of NFT to really get put into the mainstream, though. We did see it's real a use NFTs in a pilot program for, I think it was land deeds and Carla. And so it's really cool to see governments like catching an eye for NFTs. And it's going to be really interesting to see where it goes, because like you said, TiVo, it's not just about these digital assets or verifying like digital IP.There's a million different use cases for them. And we're only scratching the surface right now. So you said land needs and Carla. Yes, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's that's like exactly what it should be used for, right? Yeah. Yeah. I imagine it is going to be your whole identity, like in the future where you're going to have, you know, your, um, your, it is going to be tokenized, whatever your social, everything.Maybe hidden, but you know what I mean? I think that's how you can verify everything and never get lost and all that other stuff, like you said, there's a ton of, um, different use cases for entities, not just profile pictures or images like you, you know? Cause I understand the, uh, kind of thing about. But at the same time, I feel like there is a need to, uh, essentially show off on the internet flex, if you will.Like, like people will buy Rolex's and fancy cars. And with so much time that people spend on internet these days, I think it only makes sense to have a way for people to show off on the internet. Like they do. Fancy cars or other things that might not really have the tangible value that they're worth. I mean, there, there are a lot of things like that in the physical, tangible world.And, and I think it to a degree makes sense. Although silly, I don't think that the government should like regulate it or anything, but I just wish that instead of showing you. You know, so in the, in the, in the middle ages, right. Which was like a time when everything was like a special economics, right.Rights, this age of totally crazy city states. Um, so my, my other hobby outside of STC is medieval history, but in the middle east, there really was this, this, um, this attitude of like, Hey, the rich people are going to show off by like building charts and Publix works and funding the arts and funding sciences.I, and I really hate seeing Lamborghini's and Rolex's when we could be crowdfunding Elon Musk to go build a colony on the moon, or we could be like, you know, funding, like fishing fleets to get rid of all of that plastic in the ocean. So I just wish it was channeled in that direction. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.So I saw on your website, you like to do a lot of book reviews. Uh, could you tell us maybe how you got into that? What you've been reading lately and any recommendations you might have for us here on moon or bust? Sure. So for book reviews, um, this is my personal website, this isn't my, my company, uh, just for fun.I decided I dropped out of college about five years ago and I decided that instead of going to college, I was going to read a book a week nonfiction and review it. Huh? I've stuck to it on average the last few months, has it been that. But I, I, it, it averages out to like 1.2 books a week or something like that.Um, and I mostly read and medieval history. So I've been starting in chronological order and going to the present from about 500 BC trying to read like five to 10 books per century. Um, so I met about 1200, so I've got like decades left to reach the prison because it's, but anyways, um, in terms of history books, um, this goes into special economics.I recommend a book called lost enlightenment. And what this book is about is there was this last Islamic golden civilization, you know, in central Asia during the middle ages, which, uh, basically reached like late 16 hundreds level of technology and like 1800. And they totally get wiped out by the Mongols and the region like loses like a quarter of its population goes back.So you have this situation where there's a super technologically advanced society that pops up in a place that you haven't heard of, you know, a real loss civilization, they go back. So it also tells you that, you know, technology, it's not just an upward linear line, the, the, the Italians and the Renaissance staff to pick up the torch.And it declined and it sort of stays low for a long time. Uh, so lost enlightenment is, is a good one. Um, in terms of special economic zones, another good book is on China by Henriquez Henry. Who actually negotiated a lot of the opening up of China. And it's the history of like how China used special economic zones to reform its economy, to, you know, totally change it society.And it turns out that there's this like four foot, 10, five foot five. I don't know how tall he is, but this little, tiny little guy called dunk shell ping who, everybody who nobody's. Who saved the most human lives of like anybody in the 20th century by building special economic zones and bringing free market to China and like tripling the GDP per capita, you know?Um, so that's the next one. I really like lost enlightenment, uh, sorry. Lost enlightenment on central Asia, uh, on China by Henry kitchen. And I think that the third good one is seeing like a state by James Scott, which is just a book about how, when you look at things from the perspective of statistics and government planning, it just distorts your view on everything.So hope that's not too much. I really like, no, I got those written down TiVo. How do you find time to read? So, so many books, I just listened to audio books. So I'm like just always listening to audio books every minute I have. Very cool. Uh, oh, what's that? No, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no. I just wanted to mention in the time that we have left a few sort of interesting crypto things, if we had time in SEZs B might be kind of interesting.So one of them, that's, that's one trend that is quite interesting is remember how earlier I mentioned and my wife, by the way, wrote a paper about this for the world free zones organization. Um, so remember how I mentioned how a lot of STDs have lost business from work from. Typically to take advantage of the regulations in an sec, what you had to do was you had to be like physically based there, like physically doing business there.And in some cases you even have to pay for the cost of the gut of a government agent to come like inspect, to make sure that you're actually in the zone, not there on paper. Some zones have decided because of work from. To start letting companies take advantage to register as like a work from home company in the zone and start taking advantages of the legal system of the zone working from home.So you could be at a laptop anywhere in the world. And if you're the right special economic zones, be taking advantage of a legal system that really like benefits your need working for. And I think that that from a legal perspective, It's kind of a loophole and who knows if it will last, but if it does last, it's going to, I think totally changed the game for companies doing all of these things that are very regulatorily difficult from a crypto perspective.Awesome. Well, if you guys want to find, find out more about T-bones work, we have his website linked in the description below. You can go check that out. Uh Teebo. If you have any closing thoughts or shout outs, you want to give, tell the audience where to connect with you. The Florida. Yes. Well, I add 100% of the people who connect to me on LinkedIn and I eventually respond to 100% of my messages.So everybody add me. And, um, I'd love to help you with any SEZs are send any books or whatever. Um, so that's the best place to find me. Uh, the company is Adrian Oakville group, um, which you have linked, I imagine. And, uh, yeah, that's. Alrighty that has been this, uh, episode of moon or bust. We hope you enjoyed it.If you did, please leave us a like, and we can get more of this content for you in the future. Uh, for now we're signing off sticker on for pre market prep. It will be linked in the chat. Uh, but thanks for tuning in. We will see you next.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary:On today's Moon Or Bust:SushiSwap $3M hackSpecial Economic Zones & Crypto regulation interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Thibault Serlet Co-Founder and Chief Researcher https://www.adrianoplegroup.com/people/thibault-serletResources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Today's Cryptocurrency Prices by Market CapCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. This is flight 47 on the moon or bus rocket ship. If you can believe it. Uh, today's space flight will be hosted by me, Logan Ross, and co-hosted by Brian Moore, defy developer and Ryan McNamara, exit liquidity nation.How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. Hey, quite the name you came up with today, Logan just pull it right off the top. How was things in Logan's world? You Logan's world is going pretty well. Just keeping it calm, stay in busy, trying to, you know, just, just stay focused. Just do it. Provide the best moon or bust content in the world, uh, that I can possibly come up with coming up with all these crazy names off the top.So, uh, yeah, so let's, let's talk about a couple of safety procedures that we need to get out of the way before we can start the show. Uh, so first up I need anyone who is willing and able to please activate their. But in, into the on position, uh, I need everyone else to comment down below the crypto projects.You're looking at this week, drop tickers, whatever it might be, and maybe let us know why you're looking at them, what you're thinking about them. Uh, and if we get time at the end, we'll go through them all. Uh, after that, while you're down there, I want to point out a couple links in the description below.So first up is the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel. Uh, you do not want to miss out on this content. It's all the highlights from all of our crypto shows here at Benzinga. If you're new, make sure to subscribe to the main channel as well. Also, we have a telegram and merge. If you join the telegram, we'll give you a 25% off discount code so you can get a sick moon or bust a theory about.Designed by yours truly. Uh, and as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter and check out our helpful money site resources in the description as well. Uh, okay, so let's get right into the news. Ryan, you want to tell us about the sushi swap hack that happened? I think Brian could probably do a little bit better job as the defiant developer, but $3 million were stolen off of sushi.Swap from the Misa launch pad. Brian, do you want to go over this in detail a little bit more? Um, you let me pull it up and you go ahead and do a little run down and let you pull up. So this happened, was it yesterday, Logan, there was 865 Ethereum stolen off of me. So, which is a product on sushi swap for small tokens.It's essentially a launch pad where people can invest in a initial Dex offering. So similar to ICO, but it's called the IDEO. Um, so someone was able to inject malicious code into the software. So everybody trying to get these tokens or ended up just giving their ether to this guy's wallet. But luckily there are a lot of nice hackers in crypto.So this guy already gave back the funds and then some, so he's still. 864.8, Ethereum, which is about $3 million. And today he gave back 865 Ethereum. So maybe it's earning interest on it or something. A rumor has it that he got some miso soup delivered to his house. So maybe he was paying them back for the miso soup delivered to his house.I that's not confirmed, but that's what I saw on Twitter. So, I mean, if it's on Twitter, it's probably cool guy. I want him to hack me next. If he's going to get back the money, give back the money. It looks like this attack was, uh, called a supply chain attack. And I actually don't know too much, um, about how that kind of works.I was trying to look into it and get some details, but it's, it's a little bit more, um, involved or complicated than a. The, the flash loan attacks or, you know, that kind of exploit, it's not as straightforward or simple as, you know, you may rise in the price and then taking all out and excellent liquidity or taking everything out of a certain wallet or something.It's a, uh, a supply chain attack. And so it's, this is a new one to me. I think it's been around, but. Yeah, it's a little different. I have to look into that and report back on what a supply chain attack is. Next time I heard that it was a malicious code, injection attack. Um, and I mean, that one seems more, more common to me.That's probably the same thing. I mean, maybe it's just another name for. Uh, anyways, let's see. So how about that new, uh, sushi swap NFT. I'm Ryan. Yeah, that's really exciting. It's called show you NFT. And it's coming out this month on sushi swap. Lots of developers are working on this right now and it looks like it's going to be the first real big competitor to open.See, everybody uses open, see for NFTs right now. And like we've covered on the show. There's been a lot of problems with it. From servers from employees from a lot of different things on open. See it hasn't been a great experience for many users there. So this is going to be really interesting to see how this sushi swap.And if ti marketplace goes over there adding some really cool features to it. For example, you can place bids on NFTs and that either is usually locked up, say on open sea and you can't use it on sushi swap. You'll be able to earn yield on your. So this is going to be like particularly well for the people who have hundreds of NFTs and a lot of Ethereum.And, you know, they're going out and going on board apes and putting in 30, 40 eith bids and hoping that they get accepted now, instead of just having that be locked up on the platform, they can actually be earning interest on their Ethereum while these bids are placed on an FTS, which I think is really cool.There also, they're also fractionalizing NFTs. So you'll be able to get fractionalized NFTs on the platform, which is essentially buying a piece like a share of an NFT. We'll see if the sec comes after sushi for that. I know they're after unit swap right now and fractionalize NFTs are likely to be security.So there will probably be regulation coming four or five fractionalized NFTs. We haven't seen it yet. I mean, it's such a new space, but I really like what sushi swaps doing. They've been putting so many new products onto their website and I love where they're going. So what do you guys have to say about sushi?Swap about show you NFTs. What's your take, do you think they can think about sushi? Swap? I found my notes. Um, so the malicious code and the whole hack is somebody went into the get hub and change the wallet address to their own custom wallet address for the IDEO. And so they, uh, you know, everyone depositing funds just put it straight to this.Person's, you know, Ethereum wallet. Yeah. He was like, okay, well, now that I got that look how easy it is. He returned it, but that's really what happened. So there was malicious code put into the front end to change out the wallets and everything like that. So malicious though, wasn't malicious because he gave it back after a day.It might've been because they threatened to file with the FBI. But I think a lot of these people who do this in return, the funds are just trying to protect people from these bugs in the code. And they don't want to go to the government. I mean, so many people in crypto are libertarian. They want to deal with the government.Um, so I mean, this is just another way to do it. And honestly, it seems more effective because they keep the funds safe in their own wallet and they exploit something. It gains a lot of attention and then it gets fixed within a day or so instead of actually try and go to the government to get something done, which would take months or even years to do, it's kind of like hacktivist.Yeah, you have, there's quite a bit of that. And it's, I think it's a good thing because you don't have people just straight taking everything. Like you said, you have people trying to protect other people's funds, protect a project and make sure things are growing. And I like that. I mean, I don't want $50 million of mine stolen, but I don't have 50 million.Yeah. I mean, once you discover the bug, it's the classic prisoner's dilemma, whoever you report it to then has the opportunity to just take the money themselves. Right. So he has to lock it up and then hopefully he'll be a good guy. He or she will be a good guy and return the money. Um, okay. Let's see. So yesterday reportedly, uh, $1,000,000,001.2 billion of Eve disappeared from centralized exchanges, uh, glass nodes, reporting, some different things.Uh, but this one is from, I think it's called into the block. Uh, it was the people, it was the company that reported. Um, we S we haven't confirmed, uh, with glass snowed yet, but we're working on it. So if this is true, we'll just report it, uh, you know, tentatively for now, uh, and talk about what it could mean if it is true.So, Ryan, you want to take it away. So yeah, if this is true, $1 billion, $1.2 billion of each leaving exchanges should be pretty bullish for the asset. So if people are taking their Ethereum off exchanges, typically they aren't looking for liquidity. If you have your crypto on an exchange, You can easily sell it for FIA and then cash out of your investment.Whereas people transferring off of exchanges usually do so for enhanced security to hold over the longterm or use with the Phi project. So if you're using Ethereum with DFI projects, there'll be locking it into smart contracts. Maybe you're staking on eith too, with this much money, maybe you're using a different program to earn some passive income, but usually it's a really good scientist.Ethereum leave exchanges. That's essentially a theory that isn't going to be. At least on centralized exchanges until it's brought back onto these exchanges and sold for Fiat currency. So in my opinion, this is something that's really bullish. And we haven't seen this since. What is that like? No April was, this is a new record all the time, all time record.That's huge. But the last time you saw anything similar was back in April and you can see that was right before each shot up like 60% or even higher. It looks like it shot up from maybe $2,200 all the way to $4,000. So obviously we don't know if that's going to happen again, but we see when he leaves exchanges, especially in high volumes like this, a lot of times it's a good bullish signal for.Yep. And they pointed out the last time this happened, as you said, Ryan, if the price of Ethereum increased by 60% within 30 days. Uh, so, um, I got my fingers crossed that this is true. Could be good news. Oh, ready. Got anything else for us today on the agenda? I think we covered the news. Shall we hop right into the interview?Let's do it. Okay. So today we have with us a very special guest. His name is TiVo and he is a researcher and expert on special economic zones. So I'm going to bring him on to stream. Uh, Hey, TiVo. Welcome. Hello. Nice to meet you. Yeah. Nice to meet you too. How are you doing today? Excellent. Glad to hear it.Well, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I'm not particularly an expert on special economic zones, so I'm excited to learn today. Um, so could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, in various industries about special economic zones and then maybe eventually how you got into crypto? Sure, sure.So I'm the co-founder of a firm called the Adrian Oakville group where the only business intelligence firm that works with, um, exclusively and the Sez India. We primarily work with investors who want to put their money in the zone who want to invest in building a new zone and sort of do all of the background research necessary to guide them through that process in terms of crypto.Um, it's been more of a personal hobby of mine. I first got into crypto in 2013, uh, due to a conference. So I've been seeing sort of the, the, the different booms and busts over the years and all of that, the, the case. Um, but recently it's intersected with my professional career because it turns out that a lot of special economic zones are now trying to adopt regulatory frameworks to promote cryptocurrency, to legalize it in countries that are otherwise illegal.So it's this very fascinating trend on the regulatory. Okay. So for anyone out there who hasn't heard of special economic zones before, uh, could you just tell us what they are and what the purpose of them is? Sure. So especially economic zones are a part of a country that has its own rules and regulations separate from the rest of the country.Think like a native American reservation that is exempt from federal laws and can have a casino. If you're an American and legal cannabis. Well, sometimes governments that have a lot of very complicated rules for doing business. We'll do this with a business park or they'll do this sometimes with the whole city.Um, you've probably heard of them Hong Kong, wouldn't left Britain and rejoins China rejoined as a special economic zone with a lot of legal autonomy. Uh, Dubai is a city that has, I think 46, 47 SEZs it's just a city state of city states. Um, this is about 7,500 STDs in the world, 12,000 total, they're in 70 countries and they account for this huge percentage of the world economy, and nobody's ever heard of them, which is why they're so fascinating.Yeah, that is crazy. I had no clue that. I mean, it's, there's so many in Dubai. What would be the purpose of having so many in one small location? Sure. So in the case of Dubai, um, this is a common misconception. Dubai did not have any. So what happened is that you have this, you have this, this desert country in the middle of nowhere and all of their neighbors were politically unstable and had oil.So instead of selling oil, what they decided to do was to settle legal stability, and they outsourced the legal system to the best lawyers from the UK to the best lawyers from Singapore, they created these special economic zones for different entities. Uh, DMCC Dubai, uh, multi commodity center, uh, Dubai international financial center for different industries that had different legal systems.And because all of their neighbors were trying to pump the oil sort of during the gold rush, you know, the people who made the money, weren't the, the, the schmucks who are out there panning for gold. It was the people selling the pancakes and selling the shovels. So that's basically what Dubai did. Hmm.Fascinating. I don't know if you have an estimate, but what, uh, like what portion of the global economy or what effect, uh, of the total global economy desk Easy's play. Are you ready to be somewhat terrified? I'm ready. Okay. You're going down. Walmart. You're looking all of the plastic crap that they have.What percentage of it was made in a special economic. According to world bank figures. Uh, I'll let Ryan gets 10% about 50%. So if you're, if you're looking at the largest Sez is a special economic zone in Saudi Arabia, $1 trillion of money from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, you know, invested in this thing.Um, the population of the special economic. You have cities with populations, 40, 50, 60 million people living in China, uh, millions of people in India, living in them. And many of the people who live in Denmark only at most vaguely aware. So what this means is that. When governments want to try some new legal sort of legal system.And I have some very interesting examples of this, uh, with something like cryptocurrency, which is highly controversial, the moment they start putting it in SEZs, it's almost like they're testing something to implement on a more widespread national level. So it was very interesting applications. So what have we seen with crypto?And Sez so far. So in 20 12, 1 of the first jurisdictions to start regulating cryptocurrencies was the Cayman enterprise city and became an islands. Now came in Ireland, already sort of top rated jurisdictions. Maybe a tax Haven has its own issues, but it's sort of like the top rated jurisdiction within the top rated jurisdiction already.Right. And they decided to start regulating crypto code. And instead of actually reducing regulation on crypto, they actually increased it. But because they did this before anyone else, it meant that all of the investors who had regulatory concerns started investing there. So, um, a lot of these, the like the browser brave and a whole bunch of these, these, these, I think coin from, uh, are all based and came in.Um, other interesting examples. It turns out that a lot of these special economic zones. Have electrical generation. So during downtime, when you know, nobody's using electricity at 3:00 AM, right? So, and if you're have a coal plant, all of that electricity is just wasted. So in the past, what they've done is literal mining, where they actually will smell to metals with the excess electricity and like literally have the metal refineries and smelter.Is there any Iran, a country or cryptocurrency is legal. We had this guy on my podcast. Um, Iran has legalized Bitcoin and its special economic zones has hold a mining. Operations is actually working with all sorts of investors and what's even crazier. They're going to start legalizing it for retail investors for companies registered on the, on the Kish island, uh, just a few weeks ago.So we're going to see a lot more of that. That's cool. So it seems like SEZs are almost like a pilot program before it goes out to the entire country. Yes. Yes. So when, when China reformed from, from socialism to capitalism in the 1980s, um, they had just had this mass famine from rapidly changing everything to communism.Where about 50 million people died of famine in China due to economic mismanagement in the fifties, for a sense of scale, the entire death toll of all of world war II, including the whole. Is 80 million. So 50 million people starving China, 80 million people die in all of world war II. Right? So worst disaster in human history, maybe second, worst after world war II.So they really did not want to just like adopt capitalism on the national level when the switch to socialism was so disruptive. So they tested it in these special economic zones. And, uh, within the first year, 60% of all foreign investors. Coming to China was coming through the SEZs. Wow. So SES, these have been around for a long time, then it's not like they're a new phenomenon non, when did they start coming about?So I've actually been doing a lot of research to this. Um, if, if that's sort of an interesting rabbit hole, but, uh, the Roman empire to give you a sense of scale, one of their enemies was the city state of roads. Um, roads is like, you know, sort of the island that's right next to Turkey. Roads had all of this massive navies and the Romans had to attack by sea, but they're Navy.These were crap. Worst of all that the fighting Carthage at this point, this is 1 66 BC. They'd been fighting Carthage at to this point for 30 years. So their manpower was totally exhausted and roads were there could have been an alternate timeline where roads unseated, Rome, and wiped out the Roman empire before it had a chance to be born.But Rhodes had one critical. It's entire government budget, which is funded by a 2% tariff on all goods going through their parts. So the Rogan's created a special economic zone with a 0% tariff, right next to roads. And in five years roads with so bankrupt that they voluntarily begged to join the Roman empire.Wow. That's a cool story. So, uh, moving back to crypto TiVo, have you consulted for any cryptocurrency projects? Um, no. Okay. So what's the typical role? Like, do you see blockchain playing a role in these STCs for the, for the companies that you do consult for? Yeah. So, um, one of the companies that we consult for, have you heard of Kronos?It sounds familiar, but I'm not familiar with the audience anyway. So most is a VC fund. The anchor investor is Peter TLF PayPal. Okay. My wife works there and you should talk to Patri Friedman. I could give you an intro. He's the guy who runs the fund is actually investing. Uh, and they have a whole bunch of famous LPs, but I don't want to get in trouble, but less well-known well-known figures.I, I think Balaji is public. So I'll, I'll say him, but what they're doing is they're actually going out and they're actually investing in sort of like the really futuristic projects that are going through. Make the cryptocurrency regulation happens. So it's sort of the invisible underpinning and you have some servers, you know, you have a registered company in the zone, you have the servers in that zone.And as long as you're not dealing with us investors, you have to deal with sec. Um, you can bring in investors from anywhere in the world and there'll be a, there'll be exempt. So they're looking at projects and in Honduras, uh, Nigeria, they've already invested in, uh, looking at other projects in Africa.Yeah, don't want to get in trouble, but a very interesting stuff. So cool. And then I saw that one of your services is information assurance where you help companies verify and secure data. What are your thoughts on the intersection between information assurance and crypto and blockchain technology? So I can't really comment too much about that, but it's actually not information assurance or I guess that's part of it.That's really the big use for blockchain, right? But it's for online company registries. Um, because if you, if you just have like some random dude who just starts like a blockchain registry, right? You, you, you, you release the software online and get a bunch of users. It's not actually tied to any legal system.So it doesn't the U S government doesn't recognize this in contract law. But if you're tied to say the government. I don't know, let's, let's just make up a country, say Nigeria or something like that. And you're all Cayman islands. Right. And you're tied indirectly because the SEZs are. Can act as a metaphorical user interface between you and the government.So you actually registering your company with the zone and the zone itself is on the blockchain. That actually creates a situation where you can implement these technologies legally in a way that normally kind of bypasses having to like change legislation, to have blockchain company registration recognized by the U S government.So very interesting ways you can hack and bypass the legal system. Hm. So turning back to regulation for a second, uh, how should the U S and I, and other sovereign countries, and maybe how, how will Sez is playing this as well? How should they handle crypto regulation? Um, I can't really speak to that simply because I'm not a, an expert on crypto regulation, but my, my own perspective is that, and this is just sort of a personal opinion, not a professional.Is that the government should create sort of sandbox environments where people can, Hey, you signed this document, you know, maybe I'm going to lose everything and you, you, you acknowledge and you just try whatever. And maybe it turns out to be stupid, but I really think that's sort of the, the approach that, um, is going to generate the most innovation.Interesting. It's like we saw that Bitcoin beach in El Salvador. Like a little test city. Uh, yeah, that makes sense. I don't know anything about it yet, but, uh, interesting project. So TiVo, you guys also provide cyber security audits to your companies who are in SEZs. Why is this particularly necessary for companies that are in special economic zones?Um, you know, it's just sort of a standard package of it services. Uh, one of our co-founders Herzon on Flores just used to be doing cybersecurity. He did cybersecurity for Virginia police. So it's just like, Hey, let's just toss that in as sort of a service we offer, but really, you know, our, the, the bulk of our services right.Is mostly due diligence. It's mostly, Hey, I want to invest in X, Y, Z zone. Um, and working with investors on that front to get into the zone. I have some interesting sort of actually examples that are quite relevant right now. Um, right now, one of the big things that's, that's, that's, that's that's going on is Belarus.The Belarus industrial park, right. Has announced this complete cryptocurrency sandbox, but you know, people, I'm sure your, your listeners, or at least a good percentage of them will know that there are massive. Uh, protests against the Bella Russian government, right? There are massive situations where the government was almost basically overthrown because it was so corrupt by the people and massive, you know, horrible police, crackdowns, horrible treatment of protestors.Right. So we're kind of like the guys you'd hire before you go to Belarus to figure it out. Hey, if you go here or if you go to some other country, um, you're going to get in trouble and all sorts of weird.so my, my next question for you TiVo is about the types of blockchain implementation that you've seen in SEZs. Is it mostly like say payment processing where you can send payments like cross borders for very cheap, or is it more adoption of private blockchains within a company? We're an investment or is it more like blockchain platforms, like a theory or Solano where you can interact with programs on a blockchain?Um, so it's, it's, it's kind of disappointing. You don't really see that many. So w if you're talking about the well established special economic zones that are already in existence, you don't actually see that many real day-to-day applications of blockchain yet. However, to the extent that it is arriving, Uh, it's much more on the payment processing side.Um, it's less that the blockchains themselves are using the, the, the, the, sorry, the special economic zones themselves are using blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. What it is is that it's more that the, uh, the, the, the, the people. Are setting up these companies in order to operate in a given region are relocating to the zones and the zones are basically bending over backwards, going really, you know, all out, uh, in order to sort of help make that happen.Hmm. Interesting, interesting example. Right. So in may of this year, two of Dubai's most longstanding special economic centers. These SEZs have been around for, you know, 40. Uh, DMCC and the IFC Dubai international financial center. Um, these zones typically stayed away from crypto. These zones very much, uh, headquarters of site, Blackstone, Warburg, Pincus type old school wall street, private equity firms, middle Eastern headquarters for these companies.And typically the zones that have done crypto, you know, the zones that have gone for. I have been kind of like the zones in Iran or the zones in Belarus. And they've been kind of the SEZs in weird place as of the last six months, the big trend that you're seeing with kind of this, this, you know, third, big bubble in the last like six years sort of coming to an end is that the zones have realized, Hey, crypto may crash and rise or whatever, but it's going to be here to stay.And if they're not sort of on the bandwidth, Uh, they're going to get left behind. So they're adopting regulatory frameworks, which on paper look like they're imposing all of these sanctions on crypto, but by actually creating this environment, um, are actually able to sort of reassure investors that these are going to be stable places to invest in.So have you seen that special economic zones that have made regulation for cryptocurrency? Have an influx of investors come to them over the past year with blockchain exploding and crypto going up. So. Yes, not only do they have an N so Cayman enterprise city has, I think it's either 200 or 250 spots.All 200 and 250 are full with a huge waiting list for any office space. Um, I spoke to a guy who ran a random textile park company in El Salvador. He rans El Salvador's biggest textile, special economic zones. You know, all they do is like make t-shirts and white rubber gloves too, and good, useful stuff.And he wakes up one day reads the news. Huh? Cool. El Salvador's, you know, adopting. It doesn't think much of it opens his inbox and has, you know, 900 emails from random people, cold emailing him to relocate to his own. And he's like, what in the world is going on? You know? And you're hearing the most crazy stuff as soon as one of these zones even announced its crypto.Um, it, th th th they get bombarded, but the problem is that these zones have no ability to identify, say, Ponzi schemes from, you know, legitimate projects. So it's, it's, they're also terrified. Uh, a lot of the ones are, are full of Ponzi scheme. It's a total, it's a total mess right now. So it sounds like countries and their citizens have a lot to gain from introducing these crypto special economic zones attracting lots of innovation.Uh, but they do have to, you know, start small work their way up, learn the valuable lessons about the Ponzis and the real projects. Um, that's cool. What would you say the most important role that crypto or blockchain plays in these special economic zone? So in one, one really interesting trend is that a lot of these zones there's like every possible imaginable industry has a zone and the level of specificity, the level of granularity think of zones.It's like a tailored legal system to target a very granular, specific industry. Right. And I'll give you an idea. I was talking to a guy who does nonwoven fabrics, things like wool or rubber gloves, plastic, blue tarp, all of that's non-woven fabrics. And I'm like, so tell me more about the textiles industry.And he got really pissed off and he's like, I'm not textiles and non-woven fabric totally different industry. And like, that's sort of the level of meekness. Right. And a lot of these zones. We're office parks, a lot of these special economic zones where like, like, you know, rows of computers, cubicles, whatever, uh, in the Philippines, all over the world.And the workers are just never coming back to the offices. It's not a two-week lockdown. It's not a six month lockdown. They're all working from home. None of them want to go back to the Cuba. Um, and now all of these zones have this infrastructure for office space, which could be adopted for crypto, could become, you know, startup incubators, and they're suddenly left scratching their heads.So I kinda think that the, these governments are slow moving. Um, I'd say that they're trying to use cryptocurrency and blockchain as sort of a replacement in half the cases. It's a replacement for anchor tenants who disappeared. And then the other half of cases, they're kind of late to the bandwagon and they're desperately trying to find their way to get in.So it's, it's generally one of two things and occasionally you have some really forward-thinking, you know, jurisdiction. You have three or four. That I actually are, but yeah, that, that, that actually sort of our foreign thing, but usually it's fear and a fear of missing out. Yeah. I can see that. Well, how big are special economic zones?W w what's the range or how can you tell where it's located? All right. So I have two sort of extreme stories. Um, there, the us has something called foreign trade zones. There's about 250 300. All they are. Is that good? The enter and exit the foreign trade zone legally haven't entered the U S so the idea is that you're building a car, you import the tires from, you know, Germany or whatever you put them onto the car and they don't have to pay the tariffs.So the us has like the most basic lowest level of Sez. They barely even count. I, I read online that in San Jose, California, when I was visiting there, then the special economic zone. So I messaged the guy and I'm like, Hey, can I visit the zone? And he's like, oh, sure. And the first bad sinus, he says, nobody's visited me in years.So he takes me to this, you know, 40 story building. Right. And I go into this building and I go up this elevator and there's this dusty little office that is, um, you know, three meters by two meters like this, like dusty, tiny one extreme. And that was the foreign trade zone. That, that, that was. Um, uh, so on the, on the largest and, um, you, you have in El Salvador the same within a few months of, of, of, uh, El Salvador announcing that they were going to Bitcoin.China announced the zone several hundred square kilometers. That's going to encompass 20% of El Salvador's coastline. So. So, if you look at these zones into the in desert countries like Saudi Arabia, or even the UAE or Oman, right. You have zones that are hundreds of square kilometers. So it's really the whole gamut in terms of population.Once again, dusty closet, uh, Chinese Ken's in population. How do you delegate, uh, especially getting an exam, like H how do you just say, like, Hey, this is the zone, this is what we're doing. So there's two ways that special economic zones, uh, come about. Um, the first is sort of, application-based think a government official with a Sharpie drawing on a map from now on this area over here will be the special economic zone.That's kind of like the China model. You know, it's the pointing at the map, the tapping, we will have economic development. Um, the other model is application-based. So that's like Columbia, where if you own say two or three square kilometers of land and meet this long checklist of requirements, you file an application and you get, um, you get special economic zone status on their land.So sometimes they're started by the government. Sometimes just started by business. Uh, we got stats that our company. One third are, are purely government. One third are purely private and one third public private partnerships. So it's almost exactly evenly divided. Um, but the extent of the private designation is pretty incredible because you have the city of Google, uh, Gurgaon and India, and they switched the names about 10 years ago.And the entire zone has private water system, private police, private fire department, private electricity, primary management, nothing is done by the government at all. And you have zones that are taking this even further in Honduras. You can even apply to have entirely privatized legal systems for all civil law.So anything that's not criminal law that's in these Honduras is Adams. That's going to be special economic. It goes to a fully privatized legal system within the zone. And it's scaring a lot of people and you know, whether or not it works out, I think is still up for debate, but they go pretty far sometimes by the way, constellation 1 million.So, wow. That's incredible. And that's super interesting. I'm really surprised. I haven't heard of that. And I'm sure that's a super interesting case study to research about, uh, have you done some research on this? Like how is it really playing out? Because I haven't heard. Okay. How how's what playing outside privatization in, in these SEZs that are doing this.Um, as far as I can tell, it's a roll of the dice. Most of the time, you're going to get a two to five and not much will happen either way. Sometimes you get a six and you get the city of Shenzen, you know, which goes from a fishing village of 60,000 to a mega city of 60 million. And like 40 years and accounts for 60% of China's investment than 70% of their things.You know, you get retarded, crazy results. One way. Sometimes you get golden triangle Sez in Myanmar. The legal autonomy for some zones enables the worst in humanity. So the triads have their own special economic zone in Laos, on the border with me and mark and they have a casino, but it's known for human trafficking.Uh, 245 women were abducted and forced into prostitution recently freed by ocean authorities in this zone, you have wildlife smuggling, um, and there's actually YouTube videos. If you look up, uh, golden triangle, uh, special economic zone on YouTube, they, they, they, they, they map mass manufacture methamphetamines.Um, they, they have, they have like lions that they like make fight and cages with each other. And. Uh, they have like all sorts of animals that they take apart for traditional medicine. So you have the worst possible and humanity and the best possible. And it's, you know, you're kind of gambling as a country in this.There's not really much of a way to predict what the results were. These are wild. One last thing from, from me is can, uh, we saw you talking about a start-up society. Can you just tell us a brief example? We don't have to go too deep into it, but what a start-up society is and how they correlate to SEZs.Sure. So I started in 2015, a nonprofit think tank called the startups and studies foundation. I left in 2017. Um, a startup society is just. Anybody who's trying to create a society to Nova. So say the country of Catalonia before it becomes a country while it's still like an independence movement is a start-up society or a special economic zone could be another type of.Gotcha. Interesting. So I have a question for you. You say the us government, uh, contracts, you to create a crypto sandbox in the country. What would you pitch to them? Ooh, good question. Um, You know, w what I would do probably, and there's just sort of, the way I am is I would do a crap ton of research, and I would find a ton of people.Who've done a lot of research. Um, and I'd go about it by interviewing about two or 300. And I know I'm not just giving you an answer like plastics, but I go back, I try to interview two or 300 business people who do cryptocurrency, um, at all sides. It's very new people, people who are sort of on the very high end of companies, very well.And I get, you know, all of their top five regulatory pain points, uh, get all the interviews for the top five regulatory pain points for 200 people. And, uh, based off of that, I try to come up with like the three D I wouldn't try to do too much. I'd just try to fix the three biggest, most common pain points to all of the interviews.And really, I think that the, the best results for these kinds of things is. You know, really ask the people involved and not try to do it in the abstract, although I'm sure that if I was like a crypto lawyer, I could just say, you know, plastics or whatever. Very cool. And those location matter when it comes to Cristo.Yes. Yes it does. And I'd say that it matters for three reasons. One, you probably are actually going to be doing to take advantage of a lot of the incentives. You actually have to be physically. So you want to be in a nice location where there's not corruption. That's really beautiful. Um, I live in Switzerland, uh, actually live 20 minutes from Lichtenstein, which is one of the, the crypto capitals of the world and maybe 30 minutes to the other direction from zoo.Right. It's such a beautiful country that that's totally white. People are coming. Even if the regulations aren't say as good as the next reason why location matters is because the regulation can change. The voters of the country can just say overnight new election comes as a coup you know, um, okay.We're just getting rid of the special economic zones and by the way, Uh, we want you to either go to jail for 15 years, we're turning all of your keys and we're taking all of your crypto, you know, so that totally can happen. And in fact, I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure. At some point the government takes there's enough crypto rich people that are there for a conference we'll just like start arresting people and demanding keys on trumped up stuff.So number one, location actually matters. Number two is, uh, you don't want, you know, to have a corruption and number three has electricity. The average cost per kilowatt hour globally as 14 cents. Um, you can get half that in some places. So if you're especially doing mining, uh, that's very valuable. However, like those zones I mentioned in Iran, you know, it's, it's, it's, they, they in fact will subsidize your electricity in some cases.Interesting. So earlier this year we saw China banned Bitcoin mining. They've basically taken control over it and issued their own central bank, digital currency. Instead, are we seeing China do any experiments in their special economic zones with crypto? Okay. Want to know something LR. This is going to blow your minds again.Are you ready please? Do. I was in 500 special economic zones in China, right? Oh, how many Chinese special economic zones are there? Run by Chinese corporations outside of. Oh, I, I it's either going to be a really high number or I'm imagining a really high number is going to be a high number. But could you say that question one more time?How many companies are they're run by the Chinese government and Chinese state run companies, Chinese special economic sounds outside of China? Well, there's about 10,000 of them worldwide and 2,500 are in China already. So that leaves about 7,500. I have no clue, maybe 2000, if it's a high number. Well, you're, you're over it, but there's 500 Chinese SEZs outside of China.And so what qualifies it as a Chinese SCC? Like a special economic zone, that's run by any Chinese company. That definition is if the usually zones have an operator, which is kind of like the country that owns the land, builds the buildings, cleans the law and whatever, if that company is Chinese, we have a, by the way, we're about to publish the world's first map of every single special economic zone on earth and took us two years of work.Um, but, but one of the data we collected was to see where all the Chinese. And it's terrifying because in some of the most extreme cases, we found Chinese SEZs outside of us military basis. So the U S has all of these overseas bases and the like, like a bunch of idiots, the U S government is, you know, Hey, we're going to go in through military imperialism, spend $2 trillion and then leave Afghanistan 20 years later, the Chinese.No we're going to do, we're going to build a happy mall right next to the U S military base and invite TGI Fridays to the shopping mall. So all the off duty soldiers will spend money on us, government money in our shopping, bubbles find like Chinese shopping miles outside of any military base in Africa, you find that there's military basis.The only connection they have to the outside world are Chinese freeways and Chinese railroads. You know, I don't think it's actually that the trends are going to shut it off. I just think it's that they're like taking all the money from the U S government basically indirectly, um, in terms of, uh, cryptocurrency, um, you know, the Chinese are always up to, uh, they really want to promote, you know, Th th the digitization of the, of, of the Yuan and promoting sort of the digital one as the one world currency that's running administered by China.So, you know, I think you're going to just see that be implemented. Um, and all of the zones, I have kind of an interesting little anecdote of this, and I don't want to mention the zone cause they're good people. I don't want to embarrass them, but one of the largest special economic zones in Africa, our team is about to do it.And we emailed them and we're like, Hey, we heard your zone splint by the Chinese and villain. No, no Chinese people here, you know, it's all Chinese characters, it's all a, we chat, pay every single star, um, uh, you know, giant Chinese flag that says, uh, uh, sort of, you know, welcome home. And, um, you have zones with names like qualling special economic zone in Georgia, you know, the country of Georgia.Hm. So I'm guessing that these countries let China have these special economic zones just for the purpose of developing their own economies as well. Yes. And you know, to be fair, I think the reason why China has done so well with the SCCs is because it's actually pretty good for, you know, the, the, the locals peaceful.Yeah. There's there's problems there. Chicanery, there are corruptions, but many of the time it's. All the men in your town suddenly get jobs that pay twice as much working for the Chinese factory, where there's been no development in a war torn country for 20 years, you know, you're going to be very supportive of China, right?They're doing what sort of, uh, America wishes it did during the cold war, but a zillion times better. And I think they learned that from the U S. Very interesting. Do you, uh, do any, like personally, do you invest in cryptos? Do you follow any projects or are you into that space at all? No comment. No, I got it.Yeah. That makes sense. Are you interested in the, in NFL? Um, okay. I think NFTs are totally stupid. The reason why is because I think intellectual property is like an outdated sort of institution. We need to be moving towards, you know, open source, copyright free. So, uh, to the extent the NFTs are, are, are.For people claiming ownership of like digital assets. I think that's like really the wrong direction. Um, however, I imagine that there's a ton of other non-trivial applications out there, so I'm not hating on those, but I am hating on, uh, what is it? Crypto kitties or whatever has.It's interesting to see that these digital assets are the first type of NFT to really get put into the mainstream, though. We did see it's real a use NFTs in a pilot program for, I think it was land deeds and Carla. And so it's really cool to see governments like catching an eye for NFTs. And it's going to be really interesting to see where it goes, because like you said, TiVo, it's not just about these digital assets or verifying like digital IP.There's a million different use cases for them. And we're only scratching the surface right now. So you said land needs and Carla. Yes, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's that's like exactly what it should be used for, right? Yeah. Yeah. I imagine it is going to be your whole identity, like in the future where you're going to have, you know, your, um, your, it is going to be tokenized, whatever your social, everything.Maybe hidden, but you know what I mean? I think that's how you can verify everything and never get lost and all that other stuff, like you said, there's a ton of, um, different use cases for entities, not just profile pictures or images like you, you know? Cause I understand the, uh, kind of thing about. But at the same time, I feel like there is a need to, uh, essentially show off on the internet flex, if you will.Like, like people will buy Rolex's and fancy cars. And with so much time that people spend on internet these days, I think it only makes sense to have a way for people to show off on the internet. Like they do. Fancy cars or other things that might not really have the tangible value that they're worth. I mean, there, there are a lot of things like that in the physical, tangible world.And, and I think it to a degree makes sense. Although silly, I don't think that the government should like regulate it or anything, but I just wish that instead of showing you. You know, so in the, in the, in the middle ages, right. Which was like a time when everything was like a special economics, right.Rights, this age of totally crazy city states. Um, so my, my other hobby outside of STC is medieval history, but in the middle east, there really was this, this, um, this attitude of like, Hey, the rich people are going to show off by like building charts and Publix works and funding the arts and funding sciences.I, and I really hate seeing Lamborghini's and Rolex's when we could be crowdfunding Elon Musk to go build a colony on the moon, or we could be like, you know, funding, like fishing fleets to get rid of all of that plastic in the ocean. So I just wish it was channeled in that direction. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.So I saw on your website, you like to do a lot of book reviews. Uh, could you tell us maybe how you got into that? What you've been reading lately and any recommendations you might have for us here on moon or bust? Sure. So for book reviews, um, this is my personal website, this isn't my, my company, uh, just for fun.I decided I dropped out of college about five years ago and I decided that instead of going to college, I was going to read a book a week nonfiction and review it. Huh? I've stuck to it on average the last few months, has it been that. But I, I, it, it averages out to like 1.2 books a week or something like that.Um, and I mostly read and medieval history. So I've been starting in chronological order and going to the present from about 500 BC trying to read like five to 10 books per century. Um, so I met about 1200, so I've got like decades left to reach the prison because it's, but anyways, um, in terms of history books, um, this goes into special economics.I recommend a book called lost enlightenment. And what this book is about is there was this last Islamic golden civilization, you know, in central Asia during the middle ages, which, uh, basically reached like late 16 hundreds level of technology and like 1800. And they totally get wiped out by the Mongols and the region like loses like a quarter of its population goes back.So you have this situation where there's a super technologically advanced society that pops up in a place that you haven't heard of, you know, a real loss civilization, they go back. So it also tells you that, you know, technology, it's not just an upward linear line, the, the, the Italians and the Renaissance staff to pick up the torch.And it declined and it sort of stays low for a long time. Uh, so lost enlightenment is, is a good one. Um, in terms of special economic zones, another good book is on China by Henriquez Henry. Who actually negotiated a lot of the opening up of China. And it's the history of like how China used special economic zones to reform its economy, to, you know, totally change it society.And it turns out that there's this like four foot, 10, five foot five. I don't know how tall he is, but this little, tiny little guy called dunk shell ping who, everybody who nobody's. Who saved the most human lives of like anybody in the 20th century by building special economic zones and bringing free market to China and like tripling the GDP per capita, you know?Um, so that's the next one. I really like lost enlightenment, uh, sorry. Lost enlightenment on central Asia, uh, on China by Henry kitchen. And I think that the third good one is seeing like a state by James Scott, which is just a book about how, when you look at things from the perspective of statistics and government planning, it just distorts your view on everything.So hope that's not too much. I really like, no, I got those written down TiVo. How do you find time to read? So, so many books, I just listened to audio books. So I'm like just always listening to audio books every minute I have. Very cool. Uh, oh, what's that? No, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no. I just wanted to mention in the time that we have left a few sort of interesting crypto things, if we had time in SEZs B might be kind of interesting.So one of them, that's, that's one trend that is quite interesting is remember how earlier I mentioned and my wife, by the way, wrote a paper about this for the world free zones organization. Um, so remember how I mentioned how a lot of STDs have lost business from work from. Typically to take advantage of the regulations in an sec, what you had to do was you had to be like physically based there, like physically doing business there.And in some cases you even have to pay for the cost of the gut of a government agent to come like inspect, to make sure that you're actually in the zone, not there on paper. Some zones have decided because of work from. To start letting companies take advantage to register as like a work from home company in the zone and start taking advantages of the legal system of the zone working from home.So you could be at a laptop anywhere in the world. And if you're the right special economic zones, be taking advantage of a legal system that really like benefits your need working for. And I think that that from a legal perspective, It's kind of a loophole and who knows if it will last, but if it does last, it's going to, I think totally changed the game for companies doing all of these things that are very regulatorily difficult from a crypto perspective.Awesome. Well, if you guys want to find, find out more about T-bones work, we have his website linked in the description below. You can go check that out. Uh Teebo. If you have any closing thoughts or shout outs, you want to give, tell the audience where to connect with you. The Florida. Yes. Well, I add 100% of the people who connect to me on LinkedIn and I eventually respond to 100% of my messages.So everybody add me. And, um, I'd love to help you with any SEZs are send any books or whatever. Um, so that's the best place to find me. Uh, the company is Adrian Oakville group, um, which you have linked, I imagine. And, uh, yeah, that's. Alrighty that has been this, uh, episode of moon or bust. We hope you enjoyed it.If you did, please leave us a like, and we can get more of this content for you in the future. Uh, for now we're signing off sticker on for pre market prep. It will be linked in the chat. Uh, but thanks for tuning in. We will see you next.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Patri Friedman is a former Google engineer and founder of the Seasteading Institute, a small non-profit whose mission is "To establish permanent, autonomous ocean communities to enable experimentation and innovation with diverse social, political, and legal systems, which he created with help from Peter Thiel. He started Ephemerisle, the largest self-organizing festival on water. Patri is on the board of the Startup Societies Foundation, ran the angel fund Zarco Investment Group, and advises a variety of new governance projects.Patri has a BS in Math from Harvey Mudd College, an MS in CS from Stanford University, and an MBA from Cardean University. He used to play poker competitively and wrote one of the first online poker bots. He's a self-described anarcho-capitalist, transhumanist and rationalist. He is also a prolific writer on philosophy, politics, and economics on Twitter and the blog Let A Thousand Nations Bloom. Patri comes from a line of great revolutionary thinkers, his grandfather Milton Friedman was the 1976 Nobel Laureate in economics, and his father David Friedman is a well-known political theorist and legal scholar. Today we talked about Poker, seasteading, and anarcho capitalism.

Patri Friedman is the founder and general partner of Pronomos Capital, which is dedicated to building prosperous cities using a new model for urban development, uplifting entire regions. Mr. Friedman worked at Google as an engineer from 2004-2008 and 2013-2019. In 2008 he founded the Seasteading Institute and in 2009 started Ephemerisle, the largest self-organizing festival on water.

In 2019, Jake quit his job as an investment banking analyst and has been writing online ever since. Recently, he started a podcast where he interviews thought leaders and change-makers in crypto, longevity, and city-building.We talk about the exciting future of those topics, and what Jake has learned from his conversations with experts like Vitalik Buterin, Balaji Srinivasan, Pomp, Patri Friedman, and Elad Gil.Links:Blog of Jake: https://blogofjake.comPod of Jake: https://podofjake.comPod of Jake with Balaji: https://podofjake.com/2020/12/23/32-balaji-srinivasan/Twitter of Jake: https://twitter.com/blogofjakeHelp The Louis and Kyle Show:If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend!If you want to reach out to us, please do so on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LouisKyleShow

Patri is the founder of Pronomos.vc - the worlds first charter city investment fund - and the Seasteading Institute. He's a libertarian and theorist of political economy. We chat about investing in and starting new countries: how he got the idea, what will it solve, why new governance ideas need to be tested IRL and not just debated, some different arguments ppl come up with why it won't work and why they are wrong, biggest challenges in this space and what's the tipping point before more new charter cities and countries start being created.Twitter: @patrissimo  

每日英語跟讀 Ep.K060: Floating Cities, No Longer Science Fiction, Begin to Take Shape   It is an idea at once audacious and simplistic, a seeming impossibility that is now technologically within reach: cities floating in international waters — independent, self-sustaining nation-states at sea. 這是個大膽創新又將複雜事物過分簡單化，看似不可能，現在科技卻有望實現的概念：漂浮在公海上的城市—獨立且自給自足的海上民族國家。 Long the stuff of science fiction, “seasteading” has in recent years matured from pure fantasy into something approaching reality, and there are now companies, academics, architects and even a government working together on a prototype by 2020. 「海上家園」向來是科幻小說的題材，近年已從純粹的空想發展為即將成真的事物，目前有企業、學者、建築師和甚至一個政府通力合作，要在2020年前建立原型。 At the center of the effort is the Seasteading Institute, a nonprofit organization based in San Francisco. Founded in 2008, the group has spent about a decade trying to convince the public that seasteading is not an entirely crazy idea. 在這場努力中位居關鍵的是海洋家園研究所，這是總部設在美國舊金山的非營利組織，創立於2008年，已經花了十年左右說服大眾，住在海上不是全然瘋狂的主意。 That has not always been easy. At times, the story of the seasteading movement seems to lapse into self parody. Burning Man gatherings in the Nevada desert are an inspiration, while references to the Kevin Costner film “Waterworld” are inevitable. The project is being partially funded by an initial coin offering, a new concept sweeping Silicon Valley and Wall Street in which money can be raised by creating and selling virtual currency. 這一路可並不平順。有時，提倡海上家園的故事似乎陷入自我搞笑。美國內華達州沙漠的「火人祭」聚會是個啟發，而與凱文科斯納主演的電影「水世界」的聯結也無以避免。計畫的資金部分來自「首次代幣發行」，這是橫掃矽谷和華爾街的新概念：錢能藉由創造和販售虛擬貨幣而募得。 And yet in 2017, with sea levels rising because of climate change and established political orders around the world teetering under the strains of populism, seasteading can seem not just practical, but downright appealing. 不過在2017年，當海平面因氣候變遷而上升，世界各地老牌的政治體系都在民粹壓力下搖搖欲墜時，住在海上看來就不僅可行，且真能吸引人。 Earlier this year, the government of French Polynesia agreed to let the Seasteading Institute begin testing in its waters. Construction could begin soon, and the first floating buildings — the nucleus of a city — might be inhabitable in just a few years. 今年稍早，法屬玻里尼西亞政府同意讓海洋家園研究所開始在轄下水域試驗。建築工程可能很快就會展開，第一批海上建物，也就是城市核心，也許在幾年內就能入住。 “If you could have a floating city, it would essentially be a startup country,” said Joe Quirk, president of the Seasteading Institute. “We can create a huge diversity of governments for a huge diversity of people.” 海上家園研究所所長奎爾克說：「如果你有一座海上城市，它將形同一個新創國家，我們可為各式各樣的人創造各式各樣的政府。」 The term seasteading has been around since at least 1981, when avid sailor Ken Neumeyer wrote a book, “Sailing the Farm,” that discussed living sustainably aboard a sailboat. Two decades later, the idea attracted the attention of Patri Friedman, grandson of economist Milton Friedman, who seized on the notion. 海上家園一詞至少早自1981年即已出現，當時酷愛航海的水手諾伊邁爾寫了一本書「駕著海上農場出航」，討論持久住在帆船上的生活。20年後，經濟學家米爾頓．傅利曼的孫子派特瑞．傅利曼受到這個點子吸引，並予以發揚光大。 Friedman, a freethinker who had founded “intentional communities” while in college, was living in Silicon Valley at the time and was inspired to think big. So in 2008 he quit his job at Google and co-founded the Seasteading Institute with seed funding from Peter Thiel, the libertarian billionaire. In a 2009 essay, Thiel described seasteading as a long shot, but one worth taking. “Between cyberspace and outer space lies the possibility of settling the oceans,” he wrote. 傅利曼是自由思想家，讀大學時創辦「理念型社區」，而得知這個點子時他住在矽谷，受到鼓勵要勇於逐夢。所以他在2008年辭去Google的工作，在自由派億萬富豪泰爾的種子基金挹注下，與人合創海洋家園研究所。泰爾在2009年撰文說，海上家園成功希望不大，但值得一試，「在網路和外太空之間，存在著住在海上的可能性」。 Source article: https://paper.udn.com/udnpaper/POH0067/321267/web/   每日英語跟讀Podcast，就在http://www.15mins.today/daily-shadowing 每週Vocab精選詞彙Podcast，就在https://www.15mins.today/vocab 每週In-TENSE文法練習Podcast，就在https://www.15mins.today/in-tense   用email訂閱就可以收到通勤學英語節目更新通知。

Patri is the Founder and General Partner at Pronomos Capital and the Founder and Chairman of the Board at The Seasteading Institute. He previously worked at Google as an engineer from 2004-2008 and 2013-2019. He founded the Seasteading Institute in 2008 with seed funding from Peter Thiel, and in 2009 started Ephemerisle, the largest self-organizing festival on water. Patri is on the board of the Startup Societies Foundation, ran the angel fund Zarco Investment Group, and advises a variety of new governance projects. [0:10] - Patri's libertarian background [5:37] - The rising role of charter cities in government competition [10:45] - Examples of territories built with charter city principles [18:53] - Strategies to borrow from successful charter territories [25:28] - Improving the incentive structures of our economies [35:36] - Moving from charter cities to seasteading [39:31] - Crypto’s role in charter city governance -- Thank you for listening to Pod of Jake! All shares and reviews are sincerely appreciated! LINKS: Twitter: @blogofjake Website: podofjake.com Blog: blogofjake.com Email: jake@blogofjake.com Call: superpeer.com/jake Support: patreon.com/blogofjake Bitcoin: 3ESGQxrJZmGqd2SifqCUiHPvah1uWtN1Zd Ethereum: blogofjake.eth 0xF89aCC1f8c4FeEAc372997006BfE7c0fdD99F80c Bitcoin Cash: qznma8vxf8kjn4v9phsfkhzd0559gm7yfsx0gkl4sf

What if we just... left? The challenges facing our cities are enormous. Our problems could take years to correct, or decades. The purpose of this season is to explore new ways to reinvigorate our cities, but it's worth entertaining the alternative. What if we built something new, from the foundation up? I sat down with Patri Friedman, founder of both the Seasteading Institute and Pronomos Capital, to entertain a wild idea: Charter Cities. What are they, how do they work, and how do we start over?

The Charter Cities Institute has seen rapid growth in recent months, having gone from three employees in February to ten as of this week, so we decided to do something a little different on today's show. Kurtis Lockhart, Head of Research at the CCI sits down with Founder, Mark Lutter, to provide a high-level overview of the concept of charter cities, why their time has come, how the CCI fits into it all, and what the future holds. The first part of the conversation is all about charter cities, how they differ from conventional ones and special economic zones, and why they are becoming more important. From there, we move onto the history of charter cities, getting into some major recent advocates of the movement and a few examples of successful semi-autonomous cities from the post-war era and what we can learn from them. We turn our attention to some of the common criticisms of charter cities next, considering the political threat they could end up posing, how they propose to be different from the countries they exist in, and how to get people to start moving into them once development commences. Following this, we explore the implementation aspect of charter cities, discussing how the CCI is approaching six things that should be considered before building one: Governance, policies, urban planning, site selection, selecting an anchor tenant, and minimizing the risk of expropriation. The last part of our conversation is all about the CCI as an organization – Mark's research that led to its founding, the challenges and successes it has seen, and the vision it has for the future. Be sure to catch this episode for an in-depth look at the potential charter cities and the CCI have to change the world for the better. Key Points From This Episode: •   A high-level definition of charter cities and why they are important. •   How charter cities differ from conventional cities and special economic zones. •   Four aspects of charter cities that enable them to spur long-term economic development. •   How the CCI's version of charter cities would be governed and set up through public/private partnerships. •   Why governments would invite developers to build and collaborate on charter cities. •   The amount of master plan cities being built globally and range of their value propositions. •   The advantages of a charter city over a master-planned one and a regular one. •   Ideal environments to build charter cities in; openness, rapid urbanization, and more. •   Why now is a time where charter cities seem more valuable than ever. •   Reinvigorating liberalism and the cosmopolitanism of trade cities using charter cities. •   How charter cities fit into the effective altruist framework of tractability, neglectedness, and scalability. •   Conceptions of scalability and the work being done to enable charter cities to scale. •   A history of charter cities and how the CCI is building on Paul Romer and Patri Friedman's work. •   Early examples of cities built using a degree of planning and their modern influence. •   Problems with unplanned and planned cities and the ‘slow feedback loop' of cities. •   Lessons to be learned from successful, semi-autonomous cities in the post-war era. •   Common criticisms of charter cities and how they are based on misunderstandings. •   How to get people to move to a charter city; reasons why people start and move to cities. •   Why governments might expropriate their charter cities; the political threat they could pose. •   Issues around building charter cities in upper or middle-income countries. •   The role of incentives in charter cities being less prone to their host... Support this podcast

The Founders of the United States came up with a system of government that was revolutionary… for 1776. Borrowing from the free cities and republics of Europe as well as the Native American Iroquois Confederacy, they tried to approximate the consent of the governed as best they could – splitting powers among the branches of government, across the states, and between those states and the federal government. Today, with power increasingly concentrated in Washington DC, many Americans are feeling the loss of their consent. What do you do when neither presidential pick represents your beliefs, and there is no credible third party to turn to for help?Is there a third way?This Sunday, I was joined by two leading experts on “competitive governance” – a truly revolutionary idea that promises to renew freedom of choice and consent of the governed. Joe Quirk, President of The Seasteading Institute, and open source legal theorist and Chapman University law professor Tom W. Bell will make the intellectual case for the most viable alternatives to the winner-takes-all election result. The Seasteading Institute notes that 34% of registered voters chose not to vote in 2016. Their Vote to Float campaign aims to break dissatisfied voters out of the “Coke vs. Pepsi” mindset, and see the opportunities for choosing your own government once the seasteading concept becomes a reality. If you're not familiar with seasteading, go back and listen to my archived shows with Joe Quirk and Patri Friedman (see below).If you have been following the project, you'll still want to listen for an update on the seasteading movement. We will also go into greater depth on the theoretical underpinnings behind private governance, as explored in Professor Bell's 2018 book Your Next Government? From the Nation State to Stateless Nations (Cambridge University Press 2018). Bell will also fill us in on the latest developments in the world of land-based start-up societies, free ports, SEZs and other examples of competitive governance.Finally, we discussed the nature of consent in government in the 21st century, and how technologies like the internet, seasteads, and arbitration, enable possibilities that the Founders never imagined.

My long term goal is to create a world where people can start countries. Like they start companies today.In this episode of Build The Future, we talk with Patri Friedman (@patrissimo), the founder of Pronomos Capital where they're supporting the development of charter cities and new forms of governance. In doing so, they're building the future of how new cities are creating, how they're run, and how they innovate. Key IdeasLaw as Code, Cites as Product — Similar to code, law can operate as an open source library or database of the best laws that people around the world are continually contributing to and adapting. As a result, the cities and governments that are built off of these laws will be best positioned to serve their people.Everything as Insurance — In these charter cities, insurance would be used as a way to control who is allowed to visit the city. Everyone may buy liability insurance based on the risk they pose given their past history, psychological profile, and assets they own. Rather than being discriminatory, the efficiency of markets could make this a very accurate model reducing and providing compensation for any harm or damage that occurs.Markets Eating the World — By creating more markets, such as a market for governments, competition between different ways of doing things will arise which forces those who want to be at the forefront to optimize and improve their solutions. Links:Follow Patri on Twitter (@patrissimo)Pronomos VCCharter Cities InstituteLearn MoreIf you're interested in learning more about the future of education or discussing these ideas, sign up for our weekly newsletter below where you'll receive deep dives into the future, new episode announcements, and opportunities to join in on discussions about the possibilities of tomorrow.

From being kicked out of law school and in crippling debt to best-selling novelist, Joe Quirk has one interesting hero's journey. It was only as he hit rock bottom that he realized there was nothing left to do but do what he had been wanting to do. The journey of his life has led him to become President of The Seasteading Institute and co-founder of Blue Frontiers. Joe Quirk is also a science writer, novelist, and memoir ghostwriter, with a national bestseller in each category. He is co-author with Patri Friedman of Seasteading, an Amazon bestseller in the category of marine engineering. Joe leads a team of lawyers, engineers, business leaders, artists, and investors to establish the first floating community with unprecedented political autonomy in the waters of a host nation. Now, hear his take on the Essential 11 questions. More places you can find Joe: Twitter - @JoeQuirkExults Linkedin - Joe Quirk Books - Amazon.com/JoeQuirk Website - https://www.seasteading.org/

Venture capital and charter cities are an unlikely pairing, but it's one that presents interesting possibilities. Today's guest, Patri Friedman, is the founder of Pronomos Capital, the Seasteading Institute, and a veteran in the charter city and competitive governance space. We kick off the show by learning more about Pronomos Capital, and why Patri decided to start a venture fund dedicated to charter cities. With his Silicon Valley experience, Patri brings a unique approach to charter city thinking. From there, we discuss some of the factors that have led to the charter city movement gaining traction, including shifts in government and investor mindsets. After this, we dive into the Seasteading Institute and what spurred Patri to establish the organization. We then delve into founding a charter city. While there are capital constraints, Patri believes that the shortage of capable founders is one of the biggest obstacles in the space. Founders need to have a unique skill set, where they are visionaries along with some on-the-ground, embedded local knowledge. Next, we look at how charter cities overlap with and diverge from Western governance models and how they can apply lessons as best practice. We round the show off by discussing some of the opportunities that COVID-19 has created in the charter cities space, what's in store for charter cities in the next five years, and what Patri's most excited about. Be sure to tune in today! Key Points From This Episode: •  Learn about Pronomos Capital, the first venture fund dedicated to charter cities and its motivation. •  Why Patri believes that the legal system of a charter city is similar to low marginal tech. •  The shortcomings of viewing governance as a product rather than a service. •  Why Patri believes the charter city movement has gained the traction it has recently. •  Changes Patri has seen in the charter cities VC space over the past two and a half years. •  How the shifts in thinking about charter cities have happened for investors and countries. •  Seasteading's founding story, some of Patri's influences, and the institute's mission. •  Why good founders — and not capital — is the major binding constraint Patri sees. •  Some of the characteristics needed for a great charter city founder. •  What charter city would-be founders can take from successful startup founders. •  The importance of a roadmap and more educational materials in the charter city space. •  Insights into the potential industrial organization of charter cities and influencing factors. •  How Pronomos approaches early-stage valuation for charter city companies. •  Learn more about floating cities and why they need high economies of scale to work. •  Charter cities versus western governance: Where it overlaps and where it diverges. •  Patri's take on overcoming the first-mover challenge. •  Thinking about charter cities in high-income countries and some obstacles that come with it. •  How COVID-19 will shape emerging markets in the short and long-term. •  What's on the horizon in the charter cities space in the next five years. •  Find out some of the projects that Patri is most excited about.   Links Mentioned in Today's Episode: https://twitter.com/patrissimo (Patri Friedman on Twitter) https://www.pronomos.vc/ (Pronomos Capital) https://www.seasteading.org/ (The Seasteading Institute) https://paulromer.net/ (Paul Romer) https://aynrand.org/ (Ayn Rand) https://www.gwern.net/docs/economics/2009-friedman-seasteadingapracticalguide.pdf (Seasteading: A Practical Guide to Homesteading the High Seas) https://www.forbes.com/profile/peter-thiel/ (Peter Thiel) https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays (Scott Adams on Twitter)... Support this podcast

Patri Friedman, economist and venture capitalist founder of Pronomos and the Seasteading Institute, joins David Gornoski to explore the future of governance in our time. Will we see a return to local city states and private enterprise zones around the world? How does Rene Girard's lessons about internal mediators vs external mediators guide our discernment in founding a culture based on self-giving love rather than forced submission? Listen to the full podcast for an exciting conversation on building a better future by looking to the past and more. Visit Patri Friedman's Pronomos VC group at pronomos.vc 

Patri Friedman (@patrissimo) of Pronomos Capital joins Erik on this episode. They Discuss:- Why now for charter cities- The role of Incrementalism versus disruption in creating charter cities- Request for startups- Which geographies will be the most important for the charter city movement- How will geopolitics affect the growth of charter cities- What’s going to be the spark that allows charter cities to take off- The role of venture capital in funding charter cities- How will national identities evolve over time- How crypto networks will play a role in real world governance- The future of nation states- The decline of religion and its role in society- How will charter cities affect equality - When to overcome evolutionary instincts versus when to accept them- What’s the future of cities and suburbs- The future of Silicon ValleyThanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform.Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, and is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg.

Patri Friedman (@patrissimo) of Pronomos Capital joins Erik on this episode. They Discuss:- Why now for charter cities- The role of Incrementalism versus disruption in creating charter cities- Request for startups- Which geographies will be the most important for the charter city movement- How will geopolitics affect the growth of charter cities- What’s going to be the spark that allows charter cities to take off- The role of venture capital in funding charter cities- How will national identities evolve over time- How crypto networks will play a role in real world governance- The future of nation states- The decline of religion and its role in society- How will charter cities affect equality - When to overcome evolutionary instincts versus when to accept them- What’s the future of cities and suburbs- The future of Silicon ValleyThanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform.Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, and is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg.

I pitched growth hacking to Twitter; they passed on it—but they let me invest. • Ryan Hoover and Patri Friedman have interesting brands Transcript: http://blog.spearhead.co/started

In place of a voiceless Jason Hartman, Adam takes the reins today to discuss some articles that have come across his eyes discussing home prices in various areas of society and why they shouldn't be as big a surprise as the media seems to think they are. He also touches on the possibility of the government offering a 100 year bond. Then Jason talks with Patri Friedman, Executive Director of The Seasteading Institute, about creating new countries using the seasteading technique. Patri discusses how the concept would work in today's environment and why it's not absurd to think of a country being created on the water. It's coming sooner than you expect. Key Takeaways: [2:34] Home prices in driveable areas are now outpacing those in walkable areas [4:39] Government considering offering a 100 year bond Patri Friedman Interview: [8:36] What is seasteading? [13:28] Why not just buy land from a country rather than doing everything out at sea? [17:28] Patri's goal is seeing governments competing for citizens by treating them best [21:04] How do you deal with security when you're in the middle of the ocean? [25:25] What are these seasteads going to do for currency? Website: www.JasonHartman.com/Cruise www.JasonHartman.com/Events www.Seasteading.org www.Twitter.com/Patrissimo

In place of a voiceless Jason Hartman, Adam takes the reins today to discuss some articles that have come across his eyes discussing home prices in various areas of society and why they shouldn't be as big a surprise as the media seems to think they are. He also touches on the possibility of the government offering a 100 year bond. Then Jason talks with Patri Friedman, Executive Director of The Seasteading Institute, about creating new countries using the seasteading technique. Patri discusses how the concept would work in today's environment and why it's not absurd to think of a country being created on the water. It's coming sooner than you expect. Key Takeaways: [2:34] Home prices in driveable areas are now outpacing those in walkable areas [4:39] Government considering offering a 100 year bond Patri Friedman Interview: [8:36] What is seasteading? [13:28] Why not just buy land from a country rather than doing everything out at sea? [17:28] Patri's goal is seeing governments competing for citizens by treating them best [21:04] How do you deal with security when you're in the middle of the ocean? [25:25] What are these seasteads going to do for currency? Website: www.JasonHartman.com/Cruise www.JasonHartman.com/Events www.Seasteading.org www.Twitter.com/Patrissimo

Patri Friedman is the founder of the Seasteading Institute in San Francisco and the festival called Ephemerisle in the Sacramento River Delta, which is kind of like Burning Man on water. He consults with countries around the world that want to create new experimental governments at sea. We cover his work, his vision, and whether we'll all be living on corporate islands at sea in the future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jason Hartman talks with Patri Friedman, Executive Director of The Seasteading Institute, about creating new countries using the seasteading technique. Patri discusses how the concept would work in today's environment and why it's not absurd to think of a country being created on the water. It's coming sooner than you expect. Key Takeaways: [1:44] What is seasteading? [6:37] Why not just buy land from a country rather than doing everything out at sea? [10:36] Patri's goal is seeing governments competing for citizens by treating them best [14:13] How do you deal with security when you're in the middle of the ocean? [18:34] What are these seasteads going to do for currency? Website: www.Seasteading.org www.Twitter.com/Patrissimo

David Friedman (daviddfriedman.com), economist and author, joins Erik on this episode. He is the son of Milton Friedman and the father of former guest, Patri Friedman.They cover a lot of ground in this episode, including:- The rationale for privatizing government and the failures of the existing system.- What it would look like to have a fully privatized government, including how a private substitute for police and defense would work.- Why he is not a utilitarian and the framework he uses to figure out what is right and wrong.- How he would approach collective-action problems like global warming and nuclear proliferation.- His perspective on inequality and his explanation for why people look to relative measures of affluence rather than absolute measures.- How you would deal with punishment and criminals in a market-based society.- And much more, including Glen Weyl’s Radical Markets, Tyler Cowen’s Stubborn Attachments, fake news, ISAs and restorative justice.Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform. Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg and is produced by Brett Bolkowy.

David Friedman (daviddfriedman.com), economist and author, joins Erik on this episode. He is the son of Milton Friedman and the father of former guest, Patri Friedman.They cover a lot of ground in this episode, including:- The rationale for privatizing government and the failures of the existing system.- What it would look like to have a fully privatized government, including how a private substitute for police and defense would work.- Why he is not a utilitarian and the framework he uses to figure out what is right and wrong.- How he would approach collective-action problems like global warming and nuclear proliferation.- His perspective on inequality and his explanation for why people look to relative measures of affluence rather than absolute measures.- How you would deal with punishment and criminals in a market-based society.- And much more, including Glen Weyl’s Radical Markets, Tyler Cowen’s Stubborn Attachments, fake news, ISAs and restorative justice.Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform. Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg and is produced by Brett Bolkowy.

Jason Hartman talks with Patri Friedman, Executive Director of The Seasteading Institute, about creating new countries using the seasteading technique. Patri discusses how the concept would work in today's environment and why it's not absurd to think of a country being created on the water. It's coming sooner than you expect. Key Takeaways: [1:12] What is seasteading? [6:05] Why not just buy land from a country rather than doing everything out at sea? [10:04] Patri's goal is seeing governments competing for citizens by treating them best [13:41] How do you deal with security when you're in the middle of the ocean? [18:02] What are these seasteads going to do for currency? Website: www.Seasteading.org www.Twitter.com/Patrissimo

In this episode April Glaser is joined by Max Read, an editor and writer at New York Magazine who writes the column Life in Pixels. First, April and Max talk to Patri Friedman, founder of the Seasteading Institute, which he started in 2008 with seed funding from PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel. Seasteading is the process of forming new societies on the open ocean, and it’s getting a lot of attention from Silicon Valley.  Then Robert Vicino joins the show to talk about his company, Vivos, which designs and builds high-end bunkers to help people ride out natural disasters and other potential catastrophes. Vicino talks about his clientele and the concerns that drive people to buy fancy underground apartments.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode April Glaser is joined by Max Read, an editor and writer at New York Magazine who writes the column Life in Pixels. First, April and Max talk to Patri Friedman, founder of the Seasteading Institute, which he started in 2008 with seed funding from PayPal co-founder Peter Thiel. Seasteading is the process of forming new societies on the open ocean, and it’s getting a lot of attention from Silicon Valley.  Then Robert Vicino joins the show to talk about his company, Vivos, which designs and builds high-end bunkers to help people ride out natural disasters and other potential catastrophes. Vicino talks about his clientele and the concerns that drive people to buy fancy underground apartments.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today’s episode features a conversation between the legendary author and investor, George Gilder, along with entrepreneur and investor Erik Torenberg, and Blockstack’s Head of Growth, Patrick Stanley. The three dive into George’s wide-ranging perspective on economics, information theory, and how how they relate to the world of cryptocurrency - ideas George explores in his latest book, “Life After Google” (https://www.amazon.com/Life-After-Google-Blockchain-Economy/dp/1621575764). Show Notes 2:38 Patrick asks George to talk about information theory and how it relates to economics and what George calls the cryptocosm. 4:49 Erick asks George to unpack his theory about the relationship between knowledge and power. 6:42 George: "I don't align knowledge and power. I say they're two different ways of seeing the world." 8:56 Patrick asks George why he believes information theory can be applied liberally outside the realm of computers it originated in. 9:16 George: "Money is not and shouldn't be an instrument of power. It's a measuring stick. The idea that money is wealth has been one of the great pitfalls of economic policy for centuries." 10:25 George: "Enterprise is an information process, rather than chiefly an incentive process." 11:55 Erik: "In our current economic paradigm, there's a lot of people who believe that technocrats have the knowledge. You believe it's the entrepreneur. Arnold Klen believes the knowledge lives in a broader market system. Why are those other models incorrect in your view?" 12:15 George: "There's a great effort throughout the history of economics to eliminate creativity from the economic model." 13:46 George: "I believe that entrepreneurial creativity transcends chemistry and physics." 14:14 Patrick: "What should we be measuring in the future to make a science of this entrepreneurial creativity and surprise?" 15:15 George: "Money is ultimately based on time. Time is what remains scarce when everything else becomes abundant." 17:49 Patrick: "What do you expect to happen in 2200 and there are no longer Bitcoins being minted?" 18:39 George: "This whole idea that money is an instrument of sovereignty was not true until 1971." 19:10 Patrick: "How much do you think the British Empire benefited from Newton calculating the gold standard?" 20:45 George: "Satoshi made a wonderful first draft of a potential new monetary standard that identifies money as an essential, immutable scarcity rather than some kind of manipulable instrument of government power." 21:19 Patrick: "Presumably Bitcoin could make a good measuring stick for 100 years or so?" 22:11 Erik: "One critique of an entrepreneur-centric model: some people say it's all about market - that some markets are destined to happen and entrepreneurs are just riding the trend. Why is this incorrect in your view?" 23:31 George: "How does the market come to be? My thesis is entrepreneurial creativity and the division of labor is dependent on the extent of knowledge and enterprise. The market is a product of enterprise, not the other way around." 24:29 Erik: "How else do you think your view of the economy has shaped your view as a venture capitalist?" 25:55 George: "The real, fundamental innovation is cryptocurrencies, which address the two great crises I see in the economy: (1) the collapse of internet security, which makes for a broken paradigm and (2) money, which is no longer a measuring stick or source of knowledge, but an instrument of government power." 27:31 Patrick: "Didn't Patri Friedman say that five billion dollar figure of currency trading is inflated?" (https://twitter.com/patrissimo/status/1119481823480827904) 28:37 George: "A measuring stick cannot be part of what it measures. This was one of Milton Friedman's great errors. And even he said in one of his last interviews ‘I wouldn't control the money supply as much as I once did.’" 30:19 George: "Everyone's suspicious of everybody because Internet architecture is a porous pyramid and endlessly hacked." 30:39 Erik asks what George would change about the government’s role in the economy. 30:51 George: "We desperately need a real money system. And I believe this will spring from the crypto currency realm." 31:28 George: “The problem with Bitcoin is because it is so restricted in the total amount that can be emitted it's going to be necessarily very volatile and unpredictable." 32:42 George: “The other thing we have to understand is that big banks have essentially been nationalized.... They're part of this morbid financialization whereby banking absorbs some 40% of government profits.” 33:37 Erik: "What is the ideal role and purpose of the financial sector?" 34:55 Erik asks George if he’d be excited about a world in which people were allowed to equity invest in other people. 35:32 George: "As long as they don't demand guarantees. The student loan program was not a loan program because the whole program was guaranteed. … The crucial thing is these various projects be allowed to fail." 36:30 Erik: “Bill Janeway argues government is more than just a low-entropy carrier. Do you think there's an active role in government investigation in in long term R&D projects?” 37:12 George: “I think governments do do valuable research and development. ... But the Internet - just as the semiconductor industry - only took off after it broke loose from the government laboratories." 37:45 George: "You have to accept the world as it is and see how it can be improved. I'm not a libertarian and don't believe all government can be eliminated." 38:04 George: “These should be low entropy carriers - that is predictable carriers - that allow creativity to flourish.They shouldn't be manipulable carriers that stifle innovation.” 38:49 Erik: "How do we incentivize people to participate in activities with lots of value created and little captured? Like having kids, writing books, etc." 39:47 George: "I support low entropy carriers that support high entropy creations. This insight let me predict that all information in the world would migrate to the electromagnetic spectrum." 41:29 Patrick: "What elements need to remain low entropy in this full stack to ensure that we have a very prosperous, highly creative civilization being built on it?" 43:10 George: "Julian Simon wrote decades ago about 'The Ultimate Resource' and ‘Time Pricing.’" 45:36 Erik: “What problems arise when people don't understand money is time?” 48:04 Erik: "How do you think about the importance of community - the role religion used to play - and how we think about measuring it in society?" 49:10 Erik: "Robert Wright has this idea of 'non-zero,' where our fates tend to become more intertwined over time and continually force us to create “Win Win” vs “Lose Lose” games. What do you think about his thesis?” 50:12 Erik: "What does that mean for the people that get left behind?" 51:29 George: "Having such a bureaucratic welfare system has made the real welfare system the homeless system. ... [A]nd it's making our cities increasing unlivable." 53:20 Patrick: "Part of me wonders if this is just a part of an ongoing cycle between essentially common sense and compassion and bureaucracy and ‘tragedy of the commons’..." 53:37 George: "Philip Howard just wrote a series of books about the death of common sense and shows how bureaucracies trying to guarantee outcomes kind of eclipses common sense." 54:53 Erik: "There's been a constant push and pull in governments over time between centralization and decentralization. ... Yuval Noah Harari writes about this. Is it self evident to you that systems tend towards decentralization over time?" 56:22 George: "One human brain has the complexity of connectivity of the entire Internet, yet one human brain uses 14 watts of energy to function, compared to billions of times more energy for the Internet." 57:12 George: "Efforts to supplant human brains with computers is futile and - thus - self destructive." 57:48 Erik: "Reflecting out to the future, do you envision global governing bodies or more fragmentation between independent city states?" 59:47 Patrick: "My concern is how you stop the lone nihilist from pushing the button as destructive technologies become increasingly available." 1:00:25 George: "I don't fear the Panopticon, particularly." 1:01:21 George: "New technologies are our only answer to problems like the ones you describe." 1:02:08 George: "I think one of the great contributions of cryptocurrencies is attestation: a timestamped record of your transactional behavior allows you to document to predatory corporations, or tax authorities, or tax collectors just what in fact you did do." 1:02:55 Patrick: "What would the Jews have done in 1941 in Germany if there'd been a surveillance state in place?" 1:03:24 George: "All this violence expressed was a collapse of the global economy and the destruction of money." 1:04:04 George: "I think it really is important the world economy work in a “Win Win” way." 1:05:06 Erik: "Would you be against the charter city movement?" 1:06:29 Erik: "In the next 20-50 years do you imagine that language or currencies will be more concentrated or more dispersed or a back and forth?” 1:07:02 George: "The condition for the world wide growth of capitalism after the industrial revolution was a single global money." 1:07:25 George: "I think money is intrinsically unitary - it's like the second. We're not going to have different timing systems all over the world that aren't interoperable." 1:08:16 Erik: "What do you make of David Graeber's ideas around debt?" 1:09:47 Erik: "Where do you find yourself disagreeing with Hayek's view?" 1:11:15 Erik: What would need to be true for you to think that the federal reserve is doing a good job or serves a core purpose and should continue to exist and flourish?" 1:12:09 Erik: "How does your view differ from the Austrian school that would even disagree with the Fed serving the role of last resort lender?" 1:13:04 Erik: “How have you evolved your assessment over time of what are or aren't low entropy carriers?" 1:15:46 Patrick: "What do you attribute your recent book's success in China to? And what do you notice about your recent visits to China and how has it changed over the years?” 1:16:09 George: "China and the US are a fascinating contrast." 1:17:26 George: "Huawei is a great capitalist story in China." 1:18:46 Erik: "What's your next book or three going to be about?" 1:18:54 George: "I’m writing a biography on Carver Mead - the engineer and physicist at CalTech. Considering writing about ‘Life After Silicon’ and potentially another book on connectomes.” 1:21:26 Goodbyes. 1:21:43 Credits. George Gilder: twitter.com/ScandalOfMoney Erik Torenberg: twitter.com/ErikTorenberg Patrick Stanley: twitter.com/PatrickWStanley Zach Valenti: twitter.com/ZachValenti See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Jason Hartman talks with Patri Friedman, Executive Director of The Seasteading Institute, about creating new countries using the seasteading technique. Patri discusses how the concept would work in today's environment and why it's not absurd to think of a country being created on the water. It's coming sooner than you expect. Key Takeaways: [1:44] What is seasteading? [6:37] Why not just buy land from a country rather than doing everything out at sea? [10:36] Patri's goal is seeing governments competing for citizens by treating them best [14:13] How do you deal with security when you're in the middle of the ocean? [18:34] What are these seasteads going to do for currency? Website: www.Seasteading.org www.Twitter.com/Patrissimo

More practical & political issues facing seasteaders. Milton Friedman, Peter Thiel, & the Ephemerisle water festival.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Seasteading Institute founder Patri Friedman pitches startup nations & answers the Libertarian questions Penn can't.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My guest toady is Patri Friedman, a political theorist whose on a mission to increase competition in government. In 2008, Patri founded the Seasteading Institute with a mission create sovereign ocean colonies and "establish permanent, autonomous ocean communities to enable experimentation and innovation with diverse social, political, and legal systems.” We spend tons of time talking about Seasteading and competitive governance in the episode.  We also talk about the incredible foresight of Marshall McLuhan, the impact of modern technology on government, the future of the nation-state, the rise of city-states, and the rise of digital addictions in the internet age. I hope you enjoy this episode. This episode is everything the North Star Podcast is supposed to be: wild, wacky, weird, and wonderful. Patri has so many new and thought-provoking ideas. I hope you enjoy this episode.

Patri Friedman joins Erik on this episode of Venture Stories. He founded The Seasteading Institute in 2008 with funding from Peter Thiel. His father is political theorist David Friedman and his grandfather is Nobel Laureate in economics, Milton Friedman.Over the course of their nearly two-hour conversation they cover a lot of ground, including crypto, physical (and virtual) governance, the current state of politics, Silicon Valley, and much more.Patri starts by explaining why he is both skeptical and optimistic about crypto — and why that position is not incompatible. He says that the tech boom around 2000 had “a lot of junk” but a lot of innovation came out of it at the same time.He talks about starting The Seasteading Institute, the impetus behind the project and the successes and challenges they have had. He enumerates the issues with the structures of current countries, governments, and legal systems around the world and why by the logic of the market, one would expect countries and legal systems not to be very innovative. With experiments underway involving special economic zones incorporating novel legal systems, that might change.Patri explains what he means by the phrase “markets eating the world” and points out that platforms and sharing economy companies form half of of all current unicorns. He talks about how in the same fashion as software has been “eating the world,” he expects the same to happen with markets. He points out that the determination of resource allocation involves economics and trade-offs, whether done by a central figure or markets. He explains some of the novel uses of markets in unexpected areas and the two discuss some of the drawbacks and challenges with markets in delicate areas such as healthcare or education.He talks about some of the flaws present in democracy, including the idea that it provides citizens the illusion of control without providing any actual control and contrasts the potential distorted incentives of a central trusted authority figure versus a more decentralized market-driven approach of distributing resources. Patri says that he views the problem of figuring out the best kind of governance as an engineering problem requiring experimentation rather than a philosophical problem requiring deep thought and persuasion. They also talk about why he says in areas as varied as food, education and computing, our “desires are being hijacked” by profit-driven entities and why in the future it would be wise to return to more historically-proven strategies in those areas. He also talks about why he expects the pace of changes in the world to continue to increase, why it will take even more skill for someone to eke out a basic living, the past and present culture of Silicon Valley, and what he expects the world will look like when his kids are grown up.Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform. Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg and is produced by Brett Bolkowy.

Patri Friedman joins Erik on this episode of Venture Stories. He founded The Seasteading Institute in 2008 with funding from Peter Thiel. His father is political theorist David Friedman and his grandfather is Nobel Laureate in economics, Milton Friedman.Over the course of their nearly two-hour conversation they cover a lot of ground, including crypto, physical (and virtual) governance, the current state of politics, Silicon Valley, and much more.Patri starts by explaining why he is both skeptical and optimistic about crypto — and why that position is not incompatible. He says that the tech boom around 2000 had “a lot of junk” but a lot of innovation came out of it at the same time.He talks about starting The Seasteading Institute, the impetus behind the project and the successes and challenges they have had. He enumerates the issues with the structures of current countries, governments, and legal systems around the world and why by the logic of the market, one would expect countries and legal systems not to be very innovative. With experiments underway involving special economic zones incorporating novel legal systems, that might change.Patri explains what he means by the phrase “markets eating the world” and points out that platforms and sharing economy companies form half of of all current unicorns. He talks about how in the same fashion as software has been “eating the world,” he expects the same to happen with markets. He points out that the determination of resource allocation involves economics and trade-offs, whether done by a central figure or markets. He explains some of the novel uses of markets in unexpected areas and the two discuss some of the drawbacks and challenges with markets in delicate areas such as healthcare or education.He talks about some of the flaws present in democracy, including the idea that it provides citizens the illusion of control without providing any actual control and contrasts the potential distorted incentives of a central trusted authority figure versus a more decentralized market-driven approach of distributing resources. Patri says that he views the problem of figuring out the best kind of governance as an engineering problem requiring experimentation rather than a philosophical problem requiring deep thought and persuasion. They also talk about why he says in areas as varied as food, education and computing, our “desires are being hijacked” by profit-driven entities and why in the future it would be wise to return to more historically-proven strategies in those areas. He also talks about why he expects the pace of changes in the world to continue to increase, why it will take even more skill for someone to eke out a basic living, the past and present culture of Silicon Valley, and what he expects the world will look like when his kids are grown up.Thanks for listening — if you like what you hear, please review us on your favorite podcast platform. Check us out on the web at villageglobal.vc or get in touch with us on Twitter @villageglobal.Venture Stories is brought to you by Village Global, is hosted by co-founder and partner, Erik Torenberg and is produced by Brett Bolkowy.

Patri Friedman, MD of Zarko Investment Group and a leader in the seasteading movement joins me to talk about how Bitcoin & Crypto will enable greatly freer markets around the world. We talk about Bitcoin maximalism, Crypto parallels with the dotcom bubble, jurisdictional competition, seasteading and start up cities, law as technology, and more. We also discuss David Friedman's thoughts on Bitcoin & Crypto, and what Patri's late grandfather, Milton Friedman, would have thought on Bitcoin.

"If you’re trying to change the world in the marketplace, the market of providing a service compels bad people to behave well. If you’re trying to change the world through politics, the political process compels good people to become more corrupt in order to succeed." Joe Quirk is the co-founder of Blue Frontiers, Seavangelist with The Seasteading Institute, and the co-author of Seasteading: How Floating Nations Will Restore the Environment, Enrich the Poor, Cure the Sick and Liberate Humanity from Politicians. Joe’s "a-ha" moment on a cruise ship coupled with his tenth Burning Man experience led to a collaboration with Patri Friedman and an interest in leveraging the power of variation and selection in governance through sustainable floating cities. These seasteads would solve for sea level rise as well as innovation in governance, allowing aquapreneurs the space and freedom to test their ideas. Today, Joe sits down with Ross, Christophe and Paul to explain how seasteading facilitates innovation and Blue Frontiers’ role in establishing such floating islands. Joe discusses the benefits of seasteading for coastal and island nations impacted by climate change and Buckminster Fuller’s concept of pollution as ‘resources we’re not using.’ They talk about what’s next for Blue Frontiers, including its upcoming token ICO and the SeaZones project. Listen in for Joe’s insight around affecting change through voice or the choice to exit and learn how seasteading would allow for both, facilitating much-needed innovation in governance as well as carbon removal.   Resources Blue Frontiers It’s Not You, It’s Biology: The Science of Love, Sex, and Relationships by Joe Quirk The Seasteading Institute Seasteading: How Floating Nations Will Restore the Environment, Enrich the Poor, Cure the Sick, and Liberate Humanity from Politicians by Joe Quirk and Patri Friedman Call to the Rescue by Joe Quirk Blue Frontiers Podcast Blue 21 Exit, Voice and Loyalty by Albert O. Hirschman Your Next Government? by Tom W. Bell Startup Societies Foundation   Key Takeaways [2:10] How Joe came to be a Seavangelist Power of variation and selection doesn’t occur in governance Floating cities would allow people to ‘vote with house’ Solve for social, environmental problems through innovation   [10:39] How seasteading facilitates innovation Aquapreneurs move beyond current boundaries, regulations Create better systems and scale ideas quickly    [14:15] The idea behind Blue Frontiers Sustainable floating islands with unique governing frameworks Hosted in French Polynesia under decentralized maritime law   [19:40] How seasteading benefits island, coastal nations Proposes ways to adapt to sea level change Experiment with innovation in governance    [20:48] Paul’s takeaways from his tour with Blue Frontiers Culture of explorers, seasteading is next logical step Harvesting kelp could support seasteads and remove carbon from atmosphere   [28:21] The concept of pollution as resources we’re not using Conceived by Buckminster Fuller  Aquaculture techniques can restore coastal environment Blue 21 creating societies in harmony with how nature itself works   [32:37] What’s next for Blue Frontiers SeaCoins ICO SeaZone in French Polynesia using best practices of special economic zones   [38:47] The two ways to affect change Having voice OR ability to exit Seasteading allows for both More choice creates better service

Can a government evolve the same way Silicon Valley did? The correlation of the two is evident for to Patri Friedman, which is why he is on a path to answer this question. He is building floating cities in the ocean to integrate business perspectives on developing governments. In these floating cities are startup communities that will become startup city states and will run on a new system of governance. Patri shares more about cruise ship technologies and language culture barriers in this seasteading community. Hugh Ching, one of the big thinkers in the world today acquired his knowledge from the collaboration of the old and the new generation of knowledge. As the founder of Knowledge-Oriented Society he encourages people to get back into science. Hugh shares how he invented the Law of Touch and the Jumpulse Lifestyle. Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Take The Lead community today: Dr. DianeHamilton.com Dr. Diane Hamilton Facebook Dr. Diane Hamilton Twitter Dr. Diane Hamilton LinkedIn Dr. Diane Hamilton YouTube Dr. Diane Hamilton Instagram

Can a government evolve the same way Silicon Valley did? The correlation of the two is evident for to Patri Friedman, which is why he is on a path to answer this question. He is building floating cities in the ocean to integrate business perspectives on developing governments. In these floating cities are startup communities that will become startup city states and will run on a new system of governance. Patri shares more about cruise ship technologies and language culture barriers in this seasteading community. Hugh Ching, one of the big thinkers in the world today acquired his knowledge from the collaboration of the old and the new generation of knowledge. As the founder of Knowledge-Oriented Society he encourages people to get back into science. Hugh shares how he invented the Law of Touch and the Jumpulse Lifestyle. Love the show? Subscribe, rate, review, and share! Here’s How » Join the Take The Lead community today: Dr. DianeHamilton.com Dr. Diane Hamilton Facebook Dr. Diane Hamilton Twitter Dr. Diane Hamilton LinkedIn Dr. Diane Hamilton YouTube Dr. Diane Hamilton Instagram

Can a government evolve the same way Silicon Valley did? The correlation of the two is evident for to Patri Friedman, which is why he is on a path to answer this question. He is building floating cities in the ocean to integrate business perspectives on developing governments. In these floating cities are startup communities […]

A conversation for our political times. A discussion about making government work better with Patri Friedman Chairman of the Board and Co-Founder of the Seasteading Institute about competitive governance in multi stack holder environments.Continue Reading → The post FIR INTERVIEW: PATRI FRIEDMAN ON COMPETITIVE GOVERNANCE AND SEASTEADING appeared first on FIR Podcast Network.

. The post Legacy of Liberty with David and Patri Friedman appeared first on RealClear Radio Hour.

This Sunday, Bob will chat with Patri Friedman, one of the creators of Seasteading. Check out their website at www.seasteading.org. A chance to live in Libertarian Utopia and experience America as the Founders intended. It?s well funded and on the way.

This Sunday, Bob will chat with Patri Friedman, one of the creators of Seasteading. Check out their website at www.seasteading.org. A chance to live in Libertarian Utopia and experience America as the Founders intended. It's well funded and on the way.

June 2009 featuring Mark A. Calabria, Peter Van Doren, Dambisa Moyo, Glenn Greenwald, Ted Galen Carpenter, Patri Friedman, Christopher A. Preble See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Patri Friedman, Executive Director of the Seasteading Institute, talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about seasteading, the creation of autonomous ocean communities as an alternative to existing political and cultural forms. Topics discussed include the political and economic viability of seasteading, risks of piracy, the aesthetics of living on the ocean, and the potential impact of seasteading on conventional governments.

Patri Friedman, Executive Director of the Seasteading Institute, talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about seasteading, the creation of autonomous ocean communities as an alternative to existing political and cultural forms. Topics discussed include the political and economic viability of seasteading, risks of piracy, the aesthetics of living on the ocean, and the potential impact of seasteading on conventional governments.

Patri Friedman, Executive Director of the Seasteading Institute, talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about seasteading, the creation of autonomous ocean communities as an alternative to existing political and cultural forms. Topics discussed include the political and economic viability of seasteading, risks of piracy, the aesthetics of living on the ocean, and the potential impact of seasteading on conventional governments.