Moon Or Bust

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Layer 2 Summer Optimism Airdrop is live $OPMatt Liu, Origin Protocol Founder interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast video hereMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Interview with Colle Marketplace Founder and CEO, Akos Balogh.How to make a DAO with no codeLayer 2 SummerSoul-Bound Tokens (SBTs)Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast video hereFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Crypto Market UpdateInterview with Brett JohnsonCybercriminalsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast video hereFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market AnalysisVideocoin interview feat. HalseyFloki Inu GiveawayMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyMeet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Crypto market update (McDonald's is hiring)Tokens we are buyingWhy is Terra Luna crashing?Baran Ozmen interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyWatch podcast video hereFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market AnalysisShiba Inu GiveawayEternal Beings NFT ExposedMainstream analysisMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyMeet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Bitcoin CRASHPolygonUniswapChainlinkBNBMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary: Are we in a bear market?Crypto market update Interview with Alex Adelman, Lolli CEOMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Otherside: OtherdeedsHow should Yuga Labs have done the sale?Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Bored Ape Yacht Club Otherside, what you need to knowCrypto Market updateApecoinMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary: Market Update | Bitcoin, Ethereum, Coinmarketcap | Mekaverse NFT dropShiba Inu $SHIB analysis, shibaswap, Shiba Inu coin news todayFloki Inu???Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyMeet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Cool Pets DEMOMutant Ape Yacht Club with new ATH, Otherside Land launch date, Airdrops for BAYC & MYAC, Whitelist for other NFT Projects.Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdWrr6lyePM&list=PL4k0fH8EgI3Yt7nM8KQhBjz-XtKwhaM8h&index=3&t=1564sMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market UpdateInstitutions Swiping Up NFTsDavid Sun POB.Studio InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:David Sun Proof of Beauty StudiosCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptWhat's up zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and this is moon or bust your home for all things, all coins and defy. I am coming to you live from Benzinga headquarters in beautiful downtown Detroit, Michigan. Today, the crypto markets are a little bit quiet, but the NFT markets are hot and we'll be covering.All as well as talking to our friend David's son from the NFT project, proof of beauty, this is a sweet one. You do not want to miss it. Uh, so get out your wrapping paper and put on your best cologne. Cause we're about to learn about proof of beauty's London gift and the London nightclub Dow. Okay. That's why you need your best Cullen in case you were wondering, I am joined today by defy developer, Brian Moore and master of margin, Ryan McNamara.How y'all felt. Doing good. That was a wicked intro. Logan who a, uh, I think it was the master of margin who wrote that one a hundred percent. How are you doing Logan? I'm doing great. Thank you so much for finally asking. Uh, but I want to know how y'all are doing in the chat. Uh, so let us know, drop a comment right below the like button, uh, Let us know what projects NFT or crypto you are looking at this week while you're down there.The first link in the description is the Benzinga crypto separate YouTube channel, where all the hot crypto clips will be posted. Uh, also join our telegram for a twenty-five percent off on the sick Buhner bus swag. You can get. BTC had doge hat, whatever, whatever team you're on, whatever you're feeling, uh, you can get 25% off by joining our telegram.It's that easy? Uh, also we just launched a brand new landing page for moon, our bust with a moon or bust game. Yes, that's right. A game. You can go vote moon or bust on all of your favorite tokens. Uh, the link is in the description as well. So make sure you check it out, go drop your votes and let us know how you're feeling.Make sure to connect with us on Twitter and our guests as well. All of that is linked in the description below. Um, but with that out of the way, let's get into the news. So I say we start off today talking about Budweiser, uh, buying a Tom Sachs NFT and the beer dot E E N S domain name, uh, Ryan, what do you think about a separate a second company coming into the NFT space, especially the PFP space, uh, after visa bought that crypto punk.Yeah, I definitely think it's really interesting. And it seems like visa might've been more of a marketing play. I think they put it really well in their tweet, talking about how they, they they've collected financial instruments through the past. So I thought that was really cool. But Budweiser, I think is a little bit different because not only did they get, like you said that Tom sex, rocket factory NFT, but they got ENS domain name, which I think is really.They actually got to, so they got beer dot Ethan. They got beyond beard at youth. So I don't really follow Budweiser much. I'm not really sure what that beyond beer dot eats would be used for, but yeah, who knows maybe they have something else in the works, but I definitely think that this could really push up the ENS market.There's probably more speculative investments with these shorter domain names, kind of like the.com bubble. And I think it'll be really interesting to see where this all goes. And if more companies start buying dot youth domain, Not to mention they bought it for 30 eith. Yeah. It was like a hundred thousand dollars.I wasn't saying that's really cool. Uh, so I don't know. I haven't heard yet, but we saw visa went through a third party to, to, you know, facilitate their transaction. Um, but did buzz, did Budweiser use a third party or did they buy east to do this? I do you guys hear about it? Oh, I didn't do my research on that.And neither did I it's like, you have to look in, if you guys know, drop a comment and fill us in, uh, otherwise we'll try to figure it out for next time. Um, but yeah, it's cool to see that further adoption. I think that visa might've knocked over the first domino in a long line of corporate NFT plays. Uh, so we'll keep our eyes on that going forward.Uh, in other news, uh, crypto markets are not doing a whole lot. I'll I'll share coin market cap with you guys here. We could just take a quick peek over the market. See what's up. See what's going on. So we got BTC hovering around 49. Again, we got east back at 3,200 car dynos holding steady, uh, looking for $3 again, soon Binance coins.The one that's ripping today. That's about it. We've got polka dot. Let's see. What do you guys have on your radars today? Anything in particular? I'm just glad Binance is above 500. Again, I bought, I put some more into my, um, rebalancing and change my values. So I added a lot more BNB when it was at two 70, I mean, uh, four 70.Okay. Breaking even there. For sure, good day, Mike, you want to let us know what crypto is you're looking at. Maybe we could talk about, um, uh, that goes to everyone else. We got Gavin, Gavin Newsome, good old Gavin, uh, is looking at car Dano. Maybe we'll pull up that chart for a second. Cardona was up 30% on the seven day that is thick.Uh, and you know, it's in price discovery. Reaching those new all-time highs. We're look for that to continue here shortly. Uh, yeah, let's see. The market cap is $125 billion. That's insane. I guess that's the fully diluted market cap. Maybe it's closer to the, to this number here, the 89 billion still either way.Ridiculous. Uh, and it's probably only going to get bigger throughout the next couple of months. We will keep our eyes on it for sure. Um, our well about the, um,The vice president of the global brands of Budweiser, um, their parent company, uh, enhance or Busch InBev said that they're, um, investing in a new NFT media shop run by Gary V. So there are jumping full, full, full in the deep end on this. They really capitalize on the new booming again, booming market, which is pretty cool.There you go. Another thing I wanted to point out, uh, chain-link Oracle's went live on Solano today. That is pretty cool in my opinion. And I like how chain-link is working with all these different blockchains. Uh, they, they have really got it figured out. Um, okay. But let's jump back to the, to the NFT space.Maybe we should just talk about proof of beauty, get that going. Or do you guys have any other projects you want to talk about? Really? We should rip her Rooney right? To proof of beauty. All right. Rip Rooney. We shall so back again today on Muno boss is our good friend David's son. David worked on the zero X protocol helps create the macho Dex aggregator.Uh, and now he started his own NFT project known as proof. Beauty proof of beauty turns blockchain transactions into beautiful pieces of NFTE art. And they recently launched a new limited collection called the London gift that David is here to tell us about. David welcome back, man. How are you? Good, good.How are you guys doing great. We are happy to have you on to talk to us about London. Uh, we had you on earlier this summer and the audience loved it, uh, for anyone who missed the last episode, um, maybe could you just fill us in on your background, how you joined the crypto space and what projects you've worked on so far?Yeah, I mean, you already kind of. Summaries, I'm going to fill in the gaps there. Uh, I joined in 2017 during that ICO bubble lost a good change of money during the bear market, uh, but decided to stick around and join zero X protocol as an engineer. And, you know, it was building infrastructure for what is today's defy.Um, and then at T marketplace, uh, things like what you like the technology, but open seat. It was very much so inspired by, uh, zero X protocol. But, yeah, so a bit the NMT bug, when crypto kitties slow down the eat market, um, back in 2018 and I always wanted to do NFTs, um, and provability kind of was a side project and soon became a full-time endeavor.And haven't looked back since. I love it. Uh, so before we talk about London, let's do a quick recap, uh, about proof of beauty's first collection, the hash collection. And if you want me to pull up any part of the website, just let. Yeah. Um, I think the best, uh, I guess demonstrator of the project probably will be hash dot POB that studio slash explore or explore page.Um, yeah. So, uh, hash is the project about collecting history about collecting transaction history, um, on the theory of blockchain, uh, what do we mean by that? Well, it's, uh, you know, We historically, you know, uh, have always collected, uh, Pictures. Uh, we actually tell history like just general history via, uh, arts.Right? We have oil paintings of the French revolution. We have a war photography of the Vietnam era. We did that, but just the more crypto native way, which is using NFTs as the. Painting that represents a moment of history, uh, on the blockchain. So, uh, you can feed it a transaction, right? Any Ethereum transaction, it could be your spirit first transaction, icky hack.It could be the largest, it could be the visa sale, right. Or it'll be the purchase of the crypto punk. And then we take all the information within that transaction and. A piece of art, right? Um, and this piece of art, you can also add a title description to kind of describe it. There's a whole lot of interaction you can do there.Right. And that's kind of a way of telling stories, right. In a very crypto native way. And then there's been a pretty lively, secondary market. People are speculating on what history is very valuable. Right. Um, Yeah, that's, that's hatch. It's kind of like a project to make collecting history, telling stories about crypto fund, hopefully.Um, and, and, uh, engaging. Yeah, this is awesome. Um, so right now I'm looking at Jay Z's crypto wallet addresses, is that. Uh, I think so I started way, way, way back. I started here. Uh, I found these featured collections. Wait, was it? No, it was down a little bit of login a little down. So Sean Carter right here, view Jason.Memorable moment. So what you guys did is you found Jay-Z's wallet addressed, found all the transactions and then use their algorithm to turn these into pieces of, of beautiful NFTE art, uh, that we could, I can mint right now for 0.08. Yeah. So these are like unclaimed transactions as, um, But, yeah, so like, just to kind of clarify, the key rule with hash is, uh, one transaction, one MTV.So if it's the minted, you could only buy it on the secondary market. Right? So there's like this race to the bottom where, you know, when the Lendon hard fork happened, everybody wanted, wanted the very first transition. After the hard fork. Right? So, um, this kind of a fun competitive game at play, um, you know, uh, with a lot of these guys trying to get the best parts of the history.Hmm. So I'm just pulling up ether scan here, looking into this NFT transaction, the first, uh, seven to one transaction on Jay Z. His address. I'm wondering if this is the punk. It doesn't look like it was, it could have been a transfer from somebody to him, I think. Very cool. And then we have the first Eve inbound.So what do you think this might. Probably just disguised when I'm in Coinbase and just loaded a crap load of, yeah. Dang. That's cool. And it's, it's still for sale. That's crazy. Uh, I have to pick that up after the show. No one swipe it from me, please. Um, okay. Let me take my screen off and pull up the next question.So at the beginning of this. Uh, Ethereum successfully launched the EIP 1559 London hard fork. Uh, what is the significance of this in your opinion? Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of layers to this. Um, obviously the first one is it, it radically changed how gas, uh, how we carpet gas pricing and, and that, you know, I don't think we have fully realized the benefits of like, you know, lower gas prices from the IP 1559 heart, um, a change, but it definitely radically changes.Pricings, right? Like there's, it's, it's a lot more predictable. It's, uh, you know, theoretically it's deflationary right. For Eve, which, you know, makes me more of a youth maxi than I was before. Um, you know, and, and that's really all cool. And. You know, men, a mask recently updated right. To support you. I think that 59 transactions and personally, I think the UX is a lot better just being able to see the price actively flash.And then if you, and then being a lot more predictable with the blog, with like the timing, it's like, oh, this should be within 30 seconds, which now is what used to be kind of just. Shot in the dark. Now it's a little less of a shot in the dark. At least now you have a little laser pointer, um, to help you out a bit.So that's very powerful. Um, but I think the repercussions of 1559 is it really demonstrates the power of utility and consumer use. I think a lot of other boxing's their political power is really constrained by their minors. Right? Whatever they say, you know, they, they own the hash power, right. The fact that you got P 1559, which perspec like on the perceptions, it's bad for minors as, as a part of their fees get burnt.Um, the fact that this thing was able to pass with some amount of buy-in the minor side on the developer side on the adapt side, kind of really is I think tells how politically strong. That youth community is right. Being able to do something that is had a lot of controversies from the beginning. Right.And that if that doesn't make you a little bit more bullish on youth being capable of upgrading itself, being capable of adapting itself to whatever future needs, uh, right. I don't think a lot of. Uh, blockchain and communities have yet to face these endeavors. I don't see a signal on definitely Bitcoin has its own struggles and usually it all is occurred to hard forks.The fact that Eve was able to have no hard forks, uh, and just very easily kind of move over to this, uh, kind of contentious, uh, EIP. It shows a lot of the maturity of the technology stack and the community that's operating. And then that's, to me a very longterm. Bullets signal that, you know, The world is going to throw a lot of crap at each blockchain, but it seems that Eve has, uh, has bore through a lot of these, you know, through its history and seems more likely to succeed and whenever a new, um, issue arises.Right? Yeah. Most definitely. Uh, I just kinda want to dig in here a little bit, cause I also think that this is the most significant thing. Uh, aside from the fee burning, it was being able to convince the miners to take less money, uh, and continue upgrading. This network, it shows that they are truly convicted.They truly believe in the future of the network and they care about holding Eve. Long-term more than they care about their mining profits in the near term here. So, um, we're looking for Bitcoin to, to try to pull off a similar feat towards the end of the year with taproot, right? Yeah. I think that's coming up actually in a month or so David, do you know.I'm probably the worst at Bitcoin since September. Yeah. They're pretty much trying to do a very similar idea. I mean, so David, I want to touch on what it takes to pull off something like this without a hard fork. Um, well, I'm not the best one to answer to this, to be honest. Um, I don't know all the nuances of core development on, on Heath.Um, but I do know that. The difficulty bomb in place with a theorem, um, was a huge, uh, what do you call it? Political poker chip that developers had against the miners. It's, uh, you know, the difficulty bomb, the hash rate grows very fast to a place where the hash difficulty goes very fast to a place where miners are.Unsustainably producing blocks. That's kind of like mutually assured destruction mechanic, and, um, developers gave themselves, I think the key to delay that bomb. Uh, so I think that played a part, but also I think miners are realizing just how much. Bye. And there was from dApps from, you know, from like just, uh, PR decks protocols from the NMT space.It's like they don't, they didn't want to make themselves the enemy towards this humongous market that they're now, uh, sustaining. So I think there's, there's been enough political pressure just to, uh, say that we want to be part of the future instead of. Make a very contentious, like we're all making money, so it's all be happy, kind of a deal.Very cool. Totally. So I want to jump back into proof of beauty because there has been a lot of new developments on it since you were on the show last, can we start by talking about proof of beauty's London gift and what it is? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, London as a project was a. Attempt to celebrate this hard fork.Right? Um, it was, we wanted to build something that, uh, I guess, you know, hash was about recording history, right? It was about how do we document it's like the camcorder, but we wanted a project that makes sense. Right. We wanted a product that celebrated that history and we saw a great opportunity with this hard fork that like, look, we can create a great meme around it, create a great project around it and find a way to celebrate it.Um, so that's what London that was, that was inspiration for London. Um, London started as actually an ERC 20 project. Um, it was an altcoin, um, but the key condition was you had a. Or if you wanted to get the London ERC 20 token, you had actually met at a very, very specific gas price on the specific gas price was 15.59 G way in celebration of VIP 1559.So it, it threw people for a little bit in the ringer. It was instead of thinking about gas prices, just like if I pay a lot, I get my transaction in. Um, the protocol was actually like, Hey, I don't want you to pay on actually. I need you to pay less. To get the most amount of tokens. So it made people have to rethink how gas price works.Right. And that was the whole point of the project because London was going to change how gas Spiceworks. So we wanted to project that makes you change how gas of works. Right. So, um, that created a very interesting, uh, uh, Community and mechanic right then that's why we called the Dow. The London nightclub Dow was people realized that you wanted to get a transaction.That's so low on gas price. And on the blockchain, you had to do it at night. You had to do it on the weekends when nobody was, you know, using the blockchain. So people were like, this is the nightclub, right? Like this is the London nightclub. We got to do it at the night. And we're all going to start having fun and start flooding the blockchain with, you know, London transactions.And that's that's, that's where that monitor came from the one, the nightclub. Um, but yeah, so, you know, you could have meant the London ERC 20 all the way up to the hard Hartford. Right. And right after Hartford, we gave it its first utility. You could buy the London gift and have tea, uh, which, which is about 8,000 of them.Um, and don't wait to get them was you had to pay 1559. London tokens. Right. So if we didn't ask for eith, we asked for the ERC 20 token. Um, yeah, so that was a very fascinating experience because the first four hours of the hard fork London gift was actually the number one burner. Uh, um, and that, like, it was really funny to see when there were, there were, I think there was a Bankless podcast that was live streaming, the IP 50, 59 of that.And then people were like, what the hell was this London gift that was topping it up for the first few hours of that podcast. Um, and that kind of, it was emblematic of that. Goal that we wanted to make noise. We wanted to make history. Right. Um, and, and we also actually have the honor of, um, the very first EIP, 1559 transaction on the theory of blockchain is a London transaction, like London gift transaction.Uh, so that's another like, uh, and, and the funny part is that very transaction has been collected as. By the half community. Right? So you can see the, like the interplay that we're having with these two projects, these two collections, uh, which is super exciting and super fun to see on the day, uh, of the hard fork.Um, and you know, I think for us, at least internally, it did everything we wanted it to do. Right. Which is make noise. Bring a community together. Uh, tell people about this great change through the hard fork, um, in a very crypto native way. Right. Um, and yeah, so now we have the London gift, um, It's been selling on open sea on the secondary market price floor has been all right.Pretty good at 0.13 right now. Um, and, and, you know, there's quirky names for those and, and people have been using them as backgrounds for their crypto punks for board aids. Uh, there's all kinds of fun stuff happening there. Um, And yeah. I mean, you know, you don't have to really understand all this crazy history that I just explained to buy a London gift.I hope that they're visually appealing enough. It's just like, you know what? I just want to own one for fun, right. Or own one, like an art blocks for speculation. Um, but yeah, like that's the history though behind the gift. So you're not just. Generative art and you're buying something that I think has a lot of embedded history in it.And it's been my job to, uh, show that part of the project. So cool. How you went from documenting or like cam cording history, like you said, to making it yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that was the goal with London and we were. Uh, scared that we wouldn't be able to pull it off, but I think we, uh, I definitely, I blew it blew all of our, um, uh, expectations out of the water when it, when it came out.It's easy to think about that. The very first strings, the action on the new fork was your guys' project. I mean, what are the odds? I mean, it's a global thing. It could have been like. That let alone. That is enough to more people need to know that. Yeah. I think that adds a lot of credibility, honestly, to proof of beauty to have that transaction hash.That's really cool. I had a quick followup question about London. How much were London tokens? How much would it cost to mint a London gift at the time of mint, maybe in easy terms and USD. Uh, I definitely won't have exact numbers here, um, to get London, um, since it was low gas price and you didn't have the pain to eat, there was a fair launch project.Uh, we, we didn't pre mine anything. We didn't ask for any money for it. Uh, If you've minted at 15.59 G way, probably the London would cost you $4 for 1,559 of it. Cause it's, Ethan's cheap as 15.59 G way. Um, but I know some folks just because they were trying to get it, get it on a, on a T last minute they were trying to scramble in and get transaction.Then they were like paying 60 G way. Um, but at 60 G when you only got like a hundred London, So they were actually paying a huge premium just to even get a little bit of London, which is ironic for, for how the gas market works. But I do know that the price served all the way up to like about seven to 10 cents a coin for London, just right up to the hard fork.Um, and that was really amazing to see, because some of our early supporters of this project who minted, like millions of London were able to now profit, um, without even an entity coming out yet. Right. So they were able to sell their London for multiple Eve. Right. And, and that was, uh, Very different, you know, compared to gas wards that we're seeing with art blocks, with other NFP projects, where the miners reap the reward of their, of this huge FOMO, but we wanted a way to reward early supporters.And I think London did that. Right. Um, I think at the time of minting, because I mean, the market's very thin for London tokens. It was between seven to 12 cents a minute. So if it was four and to get an NMT was 1,559 London token. So napkin math, it would be about 150, 150, $160. And the price floor was stabilizing on the secondary market around 0.0 8.09.So that was about breakeven. I think. And now we're seeing that kind of rise as, as more folks are learning about what London is, London gift is. So aside from needing London tokens to mint the London gift, how does the token play into the ecosystem you guys are building? Yeah. Yeah. So that's a great question.Um, after we released the London gift, All of that London that we acquired. Well, not we, but the Dow acquired is now part of it's like working capital, right? So it's like a weird way of thinking about it, right? Like most ICO projects, they release a token and then they save a portion of it for themselves.We did it the other way we gave it all. And then we had to get, get it back in. All right. So, uh, the way we got it back in was the London gift and a T how we sold it. So about 13 million of the token, what is housed by the Dao, which is that we have a supplier 45 million of them. About 25% of the supply is now held by the Dao.Um, it also receives 5% of the secondary market fees. So we have about a thousand eith of volume on London gifts. So now it has about 50 ease of capital. They can use to do things. Um, And the London token and the London gift, our governance power to the stout. Um, and, and we really gave it the directive that does Dow should continue to land the London experiment, um, and whatever that means, um, and the community has kind of grabbed it around.This, this identity that we should be the Dow that creates history and celebrates history. So when, uh, the theory emerge happens, uh, uh, when he changed from proof of work to proof of stake, um, I think the London Dow is going to try to do something for that event. Um, but pretty much perpetuate this, um, the th the initial ambition of, of the London project.Um, but just for. Historic events. And now that it's a Dow has a operating capacity to do it. And I know that a lot of other folks want the London token to almost be like a mid pass. So if you want to get into exclusive entities, you will need to own London tokens to get access to. So there's a lot of speculation on the value, but we didn't define a lot of value in the beginning.We literally were just like, guys, you guys are getting a meme token. Like where are we going to be Frank with you? We haven't figured out any value for us yet. And the point is is that we're going to figure it out together. Right? Like, uh, and then, you know, still a lot of folks loved the idea, loved what the.The, the story behind the project is, and now we're, you know, working hard to, with the community to build out value. That's really cool. Has the dowel deployed any of that capital yet on any projects or. Uh, not, not yet. We have a lot of great proposals in play. We have a bird mechanic that we want, that people want to introduce to the London gift project so that you can burn those entities together at different NMT.Um, that's kind of in line with what EIP 1559 is all about. Running Eve. So they were like, we gotta burn love and gifts cause it's its own poetic to do so. Um, so there's that proposal kind of going through its process. And I think that would eventually have to, um, deploy capital to fund developers fund whatever's needed to realize that, uh, There's been a lot of work right now on boosting the LPs on the liquidity on London tokens.So there's been a lot of great proposals, deploy capital and deploy London tokens into, uh AMMS to support the liquidity needed to sustain a doubt. Right. Um, so. That's been two main threads, but there's a lot of other random ideas that people have wanted willing to build there's ideas around the London.Those you want to create a loaning group internally in the Dow where you can put up a, an, a T that you own as collateral, right. And you can draw money out and you can only get access to this. If you are London, dowel member, right. You'd be hold London token. So it's like a small credit, you know, Before London people.Right? So there's a lot of good ideas. It's really just been like, we found a way to get a community get together in the community now. Well shit, we, we, we have money. We have intention. Let's realize it. And they're all very quirky, you know, excited, exciting ideas. So, ah, that's awesome. I have two quick questions.I want to jump in with one. How do I join the Dow and two, how do I get London? Token? Yeah. Oh, you joined the London Dow literally just by owning either a gift or. 1,559 London tokens. Um, you can do more if you want to be a whale. Um, obviously that means more voting power, uh, but that's the minimum to get on our discord and access all the private channels.Um, that, that is, uh, that is reserved for the London down members. And you can buy London on sushi swap. We have a AMM there. I wouldn't say that. Yeah, the slippage is amazing. Um, we're working on that, but you could definitely buy London gift on the open sea markets for, you know, a Flores 0.13 right now.And that I did this morning. I picked up body, uh, in anticipation of this interview. I think it's so cool. So maybe do you want to just take a look at the features real quick? Uh, we could walk through them. So, uh, what are some of the ones that the community has picked out that you want to. Yeah, I, um, I think a lot of the community loves the view, go to the main, uh, filter and I can go all the way down to the unique, which is so most of these names.Randomly generated, but then I took some time to make some funny names and I just watched Deadpool. When I, when I did these names, I wanted to fall breaking names like of these are pretty fun. Um, uh, so somebody, who's a pretty funny, I think light-hearted, it's supposed to make up a few pokes at the T space.Um, um, can you show this for me last sold 108th for sale. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, these are really rare tokens, right? I guess NFTs. And there's only 30 of them out of the thousand 8,000 of them. And people have been trying to get their hands on these, um, And that's been, it's just been a fun, creative use name.Then I know that the community had a great laugh, um, from somebody names. Um, um, there's just different commentary on, on crypto culture, on NMT culture. Yeah, they're awesome. So David correct me if I'm wrong, but these London gifts, they were generated on men, right? They weren't generated before these were actually generated before.Um, uh, hash is not cause hatches at design concern. You know, we, we, we can't know what transaction and giving us until you gave it, you gave it to us, but right. For London, we took a page out of how board apes did its launch. Um, and they did it pre pre pre-built. So I saw you took inspiration from board apes, and I saw that on your website.Can you go a little bit more into detail about that inspiration? Yeah. Yeah. Um, well I think when we clarify, clarify inspiration, it was much more of a technical inspiration as in how they, uh, built their in a T project to last a very, very, very long time for if not forever. Right? Uh, since the London gifts.Project celebrating London to hard fork. It should exist as long as a theory exists. Right? So we had, we wanted to build a design constraint that this thing has decentralized as longterm as possible. And I think Bart apes has one of the better designs out there, uh, that allows her great rich artworks, but also, uh, storage, a lot of stuff on chain to allow you to maintain.This is in fact a right NFT, that's pointing to the right metadata. So that's what I mean by inspiration is we, I looked at its contracts. We looked at it it's Providence design and would be, uh, figured out, um, uh, you know, a lot of great ideas there, uh, that we can build for wanting to gift. So I've been looking at art blocks lately and it looks like they have some similar type of projects.Do you have any opinion on art blocks? Do you own any, what do you think about. Yeah. Yeah. I mean our boxes, uh, I I've, I've known him them when they were just on Rinka B, but when they were, does a test project, uh, in November last year, I don't remember. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think the community is amazing. Um, there's been a lot of great noise and I think that what they're doing is lifting all that.Generative art up, right? We're all rising with their, with what they're demonstrating in the market that's capable of being created. Um, I do think, um, as a project, there's, there's some genuinely good art. Um, I, I do think that some things I personally don't visually find appealing, but, uh, some of the work like the Cadenza pieces, like they were truly, I think, uh, amazing to me, uh, sub scape was really good.Um, a lot of the work coming from. Keith is really well done. I really liked it. I remember when credenza was kind of quiet the market. Wasn't going crazy. Like it is now. I was putting up Teddy with offers and nobody was taking them. I was just like, darn it's like tennis is not allowed. I was like the only one dropping 10 offers.And, and nobody took them and I'm kind of regret not offering more now. Um, um, but yeah, I mean, it did to do great things for the general market. I do know that they have some growing pains that they're working through with gas boards, um, and pricing out their new community members because of just how expensive now curated pieces are.Our blocks factory is as well. Um, Yeah, I think they caught on a great meme, which is like this trading card kind of experience. Right. You pull a random and you, hopefully you get a great thing that such a, such a small supply. Um, and that's really awesome to see. Um, is that something that proof of beauty is interested in doing?Um, not necessarily mainly because I think they've kind of figured it out. Um, and we don't really think that. Precisely something that we can offer that is very, very unique. I do think that the London gift, um, visually and its design was very inspired by how art blocks works. Um, so it is meant to try the art blocks community towards the proof of beauty ecosystem.Um, but yeah, I mean, I, I think snowfall, the guy who. Um, our block is doing great stuff there. Um, and it's sustaining a good community there's downs now going on with their, some of their artworks, uh, only good things to say for them. And we're reaping the, you know, the windfall of the successful generative art project tidbit that I didn't know.So snow fro fro is actually the guy who founded our. Yeah. I mean, he was, he was a one man army in the beginning that I follow him and I've been following him for a while. I didn't even realize that that's a guy who found it hard blocks. Okay. I know he owns a shitload of crypto punks, but Hey, now I know.Yeah. So yeah. So David, can you tell us a little bit more about the, the London nightclub Dow? Um, I guess how does governance work on the platform? Is it a quadratic voting thing? Is it one token equals one vote? Uh, that's a good question. Uh, we have, um, implemented quadratic voting the snapshot proposals.Um, I don't think we're in a place where governance is mature enough to put everything on chain and also. Gas fees or horrifying bad. If you have to pay $40 a vote, um, and $4, if you don't want to vote, um, or withdraw your vote. Um, so we're, so we have to do this option B uh, gas, this voting, um, when that's snapshot and it's quadratic voting.Um, so we, we do have a lot of big whales and for London, there's a lot of guys with million dollar plus, well, a million London plays. So to kind of, even out the playing field, quadratic voting made a lot of sense. It does make sense. And those, those, uh, people with all that London, if I got the right contract, London is pretty up there now, compared to what 15, what you were explaining 1559, love them equal to in the beginning to get it.Now it seems that that token price has gone up quite a bit, but I don't know if that's the right crop contract. I was looking on sushi swap, but I got kind of confused. Where I think I got lost and did a scam London. There's a SU there is a London. I, I think I know what you're talking about on Susan's slop.I looked up London, there's a London, Tokyo. It's very priced well, and that's because it's the NFTA. Um, token it's presenting the price of the London gift, where does actually a different London, which is ERC 20. So I was confused on that and I don't know why they called the London, I guess, an a TX thing London as well.They should have called one gift, whatever. Yeah, I think that is what I was looking at. But moving on from that part and kind of going into the general NFT space, where do you think that. What do you think the booming in the NMP popularity in, you know, industries and celebrities and stuff, getting into these and paying ridiculous amounts of money, but actually raising the value of, you know, just someone who has, uh, a normal, everyday NMT that they got, they found Twitter.It got it for, you know, 0.02, either something, not a whole lot, but not. Too cheap, but you know, they got it. And now all of a sudden they're becoming millionaires because they had all these bunch. What do you think about all that stuff going on in this space right now? Yeah, I mean, uh, uh, I, that's a great question.I know when I joined the DFI space, I fell in love with this ambition to, uh, its ambition, to make wealth equitable, to access. Um, and, and that was just this very fundamental idea that. If we make a protocol that this does not care who you are, you should give you the equal amount of access to, to all the financial levers that we can access to.Right. As a participant, whether that means using compound without knowing what skin color, what nationality or whatever, um, in the, in a very, I guess, what do you call it? Realistic. More pragmatic view of that vision. I think, uh, defy you need assets. You need, you need a lot of money to really participate in a financially great way with, with these things, unless you're yellowing into like a thousand percent plus yields, hopefully you don't get bank run risk.Right? You hopefully your token doesn't just tank. Right? So. As much as the ambition is there. It's it's I don't think we were seeing truly the fruits of the labor. Um, whereas an NMT is, I think we're seeing people capturing, um, you know, community is via, Anaptys capturing, uh, brand power or capturing reputability in a T.And now they're able to sell these for a hundred, a thousand X to folks that need. Reputation that needs that very scarce resource. And it's creating generational wealth. It's creating a truly equitable world. It's given Eve the truly powerful reason to be at denominated asset, right? Like I've never in my life thought in E until not is right.Like I thought everything in the U S dollar, like my, my personal accounts and his area on and everything it's in the east now. It's not an us dollar, which is incredibly powerful. Right. Um, and yeah. See that movement where early speculators are able to capture the windfall of this demand is, is amazing. I think we don't see this often with wealth distribution systems, um, in the real world, or even in really in DFI.Right? I think the Unisource airdrop was very powerful, but folks were making $10,000 all of a sudden, because you need to swap, decided to do a distribution like that. I'm all for those kinds of things, right. It's definitely going to create a lot of FOMO and, and less, uh, well-intended projects will come in and these will eventually result in corrections in the market.Um, um, when I think this is a very long-term bullish sign. People want, um, partis want to participate in this new reputation market that is being established by entities, this new, uh, content market that is established. Right. Um, and they're more than happy to come to the table with a anonymous address to participate.Whereas before it was a lot more, you know, credit base, you had to participate, be institutions, be agencies or whatever, and they all take a cut. Right? So, yeah. So were you surprised when visa bought the crypto punk the other day? Uh, and what do you think is going to happen next? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually interned at visa when I was still in college, so I I've definitely seen.One of visa is internally, but not all their teams. Um, I definitely was a little bit surprised that was visa, that there was a first one. I wouldn't be surprised that they were one of the few that were at the beginning, but I didn't expect them to be the first one. Uh, but I do know that their, I guess their assets team whoever's managing their wealth is a very, very.Team and how they have strategically invested in a lot of different FinTech companies before and, and, and whatever the future of wealth is. They've been fairly on top of their game and, and this crypto punks investment, both in marketing stunt, but I think also a huge, um, like glass ceiling that they broke for.Institutions that in fact, crypto punks, you know, the fact that they publish that said that versus buying a Bitcoin is very fascinating, right? It tells you that owning a crypto punk, you're not as something that appreciates in value. There's a genuine amount of reputational power, cultural power that you bought.Right. Uh, Bitcoin spent 10 years building, right. For the Bitcoin meme. But crypto punks did in three years. Right. Or really didn't this year. Right. Because two years before you got about a punk for like, you know, like $5, right? Like. Yeah. If I could only go back. Uh, so speaking of going back earlier this year, we kind of saw the first, uh, little NFT bubble, uh, going on prices went crazy.And then as the crypto prices went up, uh, people started moving their value into those assets instead. I kind of think that that while everything is, is like priced and Ethan open, see people are still looking at that USD value at the end of the day. Uh, and as Ethan goes up, do you expect the NFT space to kind of struggle and, um, you know, price, price, floors go down.What do you think is going to happen as the price of Ethereum rises? It probably there will be a correction in the anti spaced and due to nominating the things that youth, when the newcomers are denominated in us dollar will create a clash. Um, right. Like for folks like ourselves, for myself, who, who, who, who has been owning for a while, uh, where we have acquired a youth at three digit numbers versus what it is now, um, uh, There's we're bound for a correction.I think that's just kind of a natural inflows of, of the market. Um, I've somebody, or we had a conversation with somebody. We were like seven stages of hell, but the seven stages of crypto price movements, like you see moves Eve moves and then out coins and an entity starts to move. Like it's like a windfall of processing where wealth kind of just moves around and it flows back into the top level again.So we're saying we're going to always see that. The thing has been denominated and it's, um, you know, there's gonna be a lot of new folks, but crap while your, or date is 130,000 us dollars, that's a year salary from, for a software engineer in the bay area. Right. Like that's, you know, and that's pre-tax right.So let's. That's a lot of money. So do you think that you said the NFT bubble going to be comes after the altcoin bubble? Um, but we saw it in like early January coming, like before Bitcoin almost. And then now we're seeing it come again, maybe right before Bitcoin. Do you think it's before. Uh, I don't have any magic eight ball.Tell me that I don't, I don't know what the sequencing is at this point. Um, I do think that Bitcoin's mimetic strength over the, uh, over to other markets is, has been weakening a little bit more and more. Um, but I mean, institutions are still buying a lot of Bitcoin. Right. And I think that's more than anything.They bullish sign for Bitcoin as a store of value. So, um, I don't know the sequencing wall was changed. That's just how it, you know, if I were to predict that I would make, I would lose a lot of money. Why do you think that, um, in a T boom has happened again, like with board apes? Yeah. Budgie penguins and all of these different ones, he's either profile picture or, um, you know, these are these collectible NFT projects.Why do you think they're all Boomi again? Uh, one, some I've heard is saying that it's the community is bringing everybody together, but I wanted to see as someone that's actually doing a successful project, why do you think this is, uh, taken off rapid fire? Like it is and what. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I think the above the bowl and March really needed a correction.It was at a place where we were operating a lot of us, I think, in the dark, when it comes to price discovery to community building, then I think the correction did come in and people were calling it at the NFC hangover or whatever where capital inflows were were, were a lot slower. Um, at the time during that time, I don't think that if the space was not building right, we were all still.Hard at work and because they're less noise, we were able to be a little less kind of fighting fires by the day we were more strategic and mindful of what we need to do. I can just speak on my own experience out in March when we were doing has still, or does the main focus like. Compared to what I know now about community building about price discovery about the token Nomics with NMT is like, I feel like I was a toddler now in March, right?Like we didn't understand anything or I didn't understand anything. And, um, we had hash max then I believe, you know, there's other great projects. But, um, I think once the NFC hangover happened, we were just kind of, I think it was a powder keg. We were just literally waiting for like the. Spark, and then everything was going to come back again.Right? It was just, to me, it was just as a matter of time for the bull market to come back. It was either in a few months, half a year or whatever, but, um, then if he sparked market works off the football lot of FOMO, right? Like, like a hedge fund goes buys and 508th of whatever, or buy the sweeps, the whole floor on crypto punks.And. That wouldn't fall brings everybody over again. Right. Um, when people are making money, everybody comes and make money. Um, but there's been a lot of maturing between these two bear bull and bear cycles, which is insane for how fast the market has been moving. The fact that we've been able to grow with it.Right. Like the fact that open, see now shows for price instead of average price, it literally showed average pride for years, right? From the beginning that opens the existed because they, nobody understood that floor price matter, not average price, right? Like it took us a bear, a bull market and a bear cycle realizing.Actually the statistic that we want to be working towards. Right. And we have tools like rarity, sniper, Ray, already tools that allows people to speculate on how rare your entities are. Um, keep our, seeing the present power of the reputation that you can gain. If you own a crypto, pumpkin, that's your portrait.Right? So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's like relaying a lot of the good groundwork and we're also seeing a lot of great, um, infrastructure projects. Right. The fact that, uh, you know, that the open seat made like a billion, like how about a billion dollars of volume or whatever, and raise a hundred mil that puts a target on their back.Everybody wants in on that. This is now right? So that means some of the most talented people are now in the market. Right. Not buying but building. Right. That's like huge talent draw that. And it teases simply haven't had until this year. Right? Like it's, I don't think we were able to, it was able to draw the best people.Okay. It felt like a very small market or before January, right? This correction. I think quite a lot of people that stuck along. Right. So I like these because I think that the, um, the PFP or even the art projects are going to be here for a couple of years. But if you look back and you look at the tokens that even some that have been on or some of the past only like.Three to five out of the past seven years are tokens that we know now, you know? And so, and that's just gonna be the same continuing with these NMT projects. As long as the Ethereum is on polygon, all these ones that they're on their own blog. They're going to be there forever. These tokens will come and go, but these crypto punks are going to be in museums.Um, you know, they're already, they already are. So it's just really cool to see something like that with the longevity and the lifespan that these will have compared to ICO's and token projects. That'll just, yeah. So along, along with London came the, uh, background changed service, uh, which I think is really cool.I've been seeing a bunch of punks and apes with proof of beauty backgrounds. Uh, so if you can maybe talk about, uh, how that came about and the network effects you've been seeing, I will show everybody how they can do it, uh, while you're explaining. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things about London and I'm certain that you guys have felt this just from me, rambling is it's a complex project.It has a lot of history. Um, but we wanted London gift to have its own name. That's not just about history. And we wanted something about. Holds its ground for NFT speculators and just NFTE people in general. So, uh, we started to see people use London and hash as backgrounds for their, uh, uh, avatars. And we just thought that was the main, that was, um, that's how we're going to get people like crypto punks.You know, quite know what the hard fork is to love London or to love hash. So we really wanted to seize that opportunity and create a great project that would grow the, grow that meme. And that was, you know, literally two weekends and I, and I, and nearly an all-nighter and we, uh, slapped together a pretty scrappy service that, you know, we hope that we'll propagate that story, right.That, um, this meme, that London gift is a great background for. PSP projects. Yeah, for sure. Uh, I'm having a little bit of trouble selecting the, the 24 PX, uh, option for some reason. Uh, put your ape on there. I wish man. So yeah, I can't show you guys cause I don't have any of these other projects right now.Um, but maybe we could talk about how, um, you've been adding projects. Have you guys like been in contact with, with these creators? Have you let them know, worked with them to integrate. Uh, for some of them, the communities have reached out to us for most of these, we've been just taking them by the signal.Like people wanted this. We're like, okay, we'll add it. Right. Some that we obviously had ads just because they're blue chip, right? Like a Parkside that be very dumb and last not to add punks our board apes, like I own a board eight. Right. So I wanted to see my own selfish there too. Uh, cool cats. I'm a huge, cool cats fan.So that was a really easy ad for us. Um, Yeah, we it's open source so people can just drop in and literally just add two lines of code. And what law you going to add your own, uh, avatar and the process? We do permission it, cause sometimes the result is. To be less than desired and something like Photoshop may work a little bit better and know we're not interested in recreating Photoshop.So, um, when you had to restrict a few of them, but we've been collaborating with few communities like the crypto dunks, um, community. The derivative of the crypto punks project, um, we're working on a giveaway, right. Um, getting their community to, to use punks faculties, gift, get backgrounds, um, uh, the bowls on the block, the bears on the block.We're really excited too. Right. We were trying to help them out. Um, but yeah, yeah, we, we it's been the case by case basis, but awesome. Uh, that's unfortunately really all the time we have for today. David, thank you so much again for stopping by. It was a great interview as always. I'm really excited to see what's next for proof of beauty.Do you have anything you could share with us now? Yeah, I guess a half we have seasons, uh, which I'm not going to go too much into, but that's. Do generations of artworks, uh, where right now in season one saga, we do have a season two planned after season one sells out in season two. I'll just give it its name.It's called Toshi. Um, and I think Toshi, if you had to think about what it means, um, can tell you what kind of history you were targeting with Toshi. Very cool. I'm excited for. Um, so yeah, w we will have you back on when that project launches, but for now, I just want to give you the chance, any shout outs you want to make anything else you want to mention to the audience?The is. Yeah. Um, you know, we, we have a lot of great things going on. So following us, beauty, Twitter is going to be awesome. And if you go on there, we have a lot of other, Twitter's now managed by the community, not by us, for each, for all the doubts that we have going on. So that's been really amazing. You really want to follow the details of all this stuff, all the history that we're telling or making follow those Twitters, um, cause cause.Yeah, you don't want to miss out on, um, I think some of the wacky things that we're doing for sure. Awesome. Make sure to, to follow those. Twitter's they're linked in the description below and so is the website. Uh, it is right under the like button wink, wink. Um, but yeah, that's it for our interview and our show today.Um, David, thanks, Ryan. Brian, you have anything else you want to mention? No, thanks for coming on David. Absolutely. Awesome. Yeah, we'll see you guys Friday.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Bored Ape Yacht Club Otherside, what you need to knowCrypto Market updateApecoinMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Cardano Smart ContractsArbitrum and L2sWalmart and LTCTokens.com InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Andrew Kiguel, Tokens.com CEOCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited Transcriptboom, good afternoon. Zinger, nation. Welcome aboard the moon or bus rocket. Ship your hub for all things. All coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I will be your captain on today's space flight. Okay, I'm going to be co-pilot by defiant developer, Brian Moore and exit liquidity. I mean, I mean, uh, uh, uh, best trader in the world, ran back in the mirror.Number one, Dex trader. Um, awesome. So welcome guys. How you doing? Good. How's it going to captain, captain Mike Bryan? Cause I, uh, lost a 12th word of one of my seed phrases for a wallet. I can't figure out how to get it. And so, um, I got to do some defy developing. Did you really do? Huh? That's a good, good time.Yeah, not your keys. I'll always keep your private keys and your seed phrases safe. Okay. Um, okay. So we're going to talk about Cardinal today. We're going to talk about a lot of cool stuff. Uh, but before we can take off before we can blast off, I need to go over some general safety procedures. Okay. So please keep your arms.Okay. Uh, and portfolios inside the vehicle at all times. Uh, and those who are willing and able please flip your light button into the on position. Uh, it does a lot for the show. If you're new around here, make sure to subscribe to the Benzinga channel and check out the description while you're down there.The top link is the Benzinger crypto separate YouTube channel, where you can get all of the specific crypto clips. Uh, and then there's also, let's see, we got the telegram down there. We got the merchant link down there, pick up your sick eith hat. Uh, and we got a 25% off discount code coming at you. If you join the telegram, which is also linked down below, we also have a lunar bus game, uh, which was really cool.Um, Ryan and I helped, uh, helped to build this and you can click Mooner bus. You can vote on all your favorite tokens. We're trying to get the community involved here. So check that out as well. Uh, go make your votes, check out the website. And there's also all of our old videos there. We've talked to Tim Draper, we've talked a bit, boy, we talked to the creators of ACCE infinity.So go check that stuff out. You really don't want to miss it. There's a lot of valuable info there as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter. You can see our handles, uh, hit us up. If you've got some questions you want to know our thoughts. Um, and also we want to know your thoughts. So what projects are you looking at this week?Drop them in the comments below, um, projects, tickers, whatever you got forests. We want to see it, and we'll try to talk about them. If we get some time today. Uh, we also have a sweet interview coming up with tokens.com. Uh, we have Andrew Kegal coming on the CEO of the company. Talk to us about how he's giving defy access defy, uh, um, uh, exposure to these institutional retail investors.It's really cool. Uh, so stay tuned for all of that, but first up on the docket, uh, we have car Dano, smart contracts launching, uh, kind of, kind of unexciting here. I don't want to say it's like the challenger. Uh, but, um, Ryan, why don't you just tell us what else. Cardona said September 12th for smart contracts and they deliver it.They brought us some smart contracts. They had a successful hard fork, the Alonzo hard forks, and now there are smart contracts on Cardona. So that's really cool that the youth Maxis can't say that Cardona doesn't have smart contracts anymore. So now I can't make that argument, which I guess is good, but it seems like they might only be able to process one transaction at a time.Cardinal has been having some trouble doing concurrent transactions, which is very necessary for defy. So although these smart contracts are. There aren't very many defy applications that you can use. Don Cardona. We were looking over this morning trying to find one. We could go over on the show. We couldn't find any depths on Cardona that are up and running.Now I saw that men swap one of the automated market makers on Cardona was up for a little bit, but they were having problems with their smart contracts. Like I said, they weren't able to run concurrent transactions. So they weren't able to run more than one transaction at a time on their platform. So I'm not sure if that's been fixed yet, but these applications are not up and running from what I can see.If you have any dabs on Cardona that are up and running, put them in the chair. We can have a second to go over them, look at them, see what they're all about. Uh, but as of now seems pretty lackluster. And I think car Donald's price shows that we're dipping down. I didn't check today, but I think we're, we're what low $2.Now we hit $3 last week. So I, I don't think it's looking too good for Cordato after all of this hype and now they're having problems after launch. Uh, what do you guys think? You guys are the ADA investors you're bullish on Cardona. How do you think this plays out? Brian? You want to take this one or you want me to go for it?Yeah, I can, um, say a few things. Well, one thing is a comment from the just ADA, you know, Foundation, the people who try to do the, who added the smart contracts and everything like that. They said that this is just now it's just getting started. And so there's a lot of room to run here and I don't think they want to put out a subpar, um, product or anything.But one, one thing that gives me pause is that why, why didn't they have this already ready to go for the date that they establish in? Why was it a little bit more feature rich than it actually is? That's it's not really concerning, but kind of annoying because it's like, come on, let's let's get this party started.Let's go for it. You have so much money. There's all these people invested in it. There's all these eyes looking on it. There's all this help. There's the, one of the co-founders of Ethereum's heading it off. So like what's the holdup. That's my quick. Yeah, for sure. And we saw them deploy smart contracts on their Testnet.Uh, like a couple of weeks ago we saw the same issues going on. Uh, and it's really amazing to me that they didn't fix it or delay the launch. Um, in, you know, CarNow has dropped 11% today, 14, almost 15% on the seven day. It's down to 2 42 right now. Uh, so people were saying Karmanos smart contracts. Weren't priced in.I don't know about that. It kind of looks like they were, and their, their, um, flawed execution has kind of taken a share out of their market cap, which I mean, makes sense to me. Why are they worth $78 billion? When Salada is worth $46 billion, they have this. Uh, defy ecosystem. So Ilana has $11 billion in, in TVL like locked in protocols.Uh, whereas Guardado has nothing. They have, they have a large amount of their, um, of the ADA staked, uh, for validating the network. But that shouldn't come as a surprise because what else can you do with Cardona at this point? There's no other way to make money on it. Like, there's all these different applications on Ethereum, it's Atlanta, uh, where you can get higher returns than, than just securing the network.Um, yeah, I mean, it's kind of disappointing to see this happen. I I'd like to see, uh, you know, them kind of fill out the potential to fill out, uh, the, the reasoning that they're justified with, why their market cap is almost $80 billion. Um, I think they have a, uh, there, you can tell that these guys are developers.You can tell that they are on the, you know, the technical side and know how to make things happen, but are not good at marketing. They're not good at, you know, letting people know exactly what's going on. I kind of disagree. I kind of disagree because if they're the good, if they're good at the technicals, then why aren't their smart contracts working?Why isn't the ecosystem there that their main strength I think is marketing and Charles Hoskinson is leading the way. Right? All the, all these people, all these Cardona lovers like love the project because smart contracts and Charles Hoskinson right. That's not, they have no other like justification. Um, and.I don't know, I'd like to see more happen. Well, what I think what, what I was gonna say was this looks like it was just the date. The hard fork was going to be launched. It wasn't the date that, you know, all the smart contracts everything's going to be working correctly. Everything's going to be this crazy new Ethereum, all this other stuff.It was just the date that they were going to do the hard fork and start the process. And I don't think that they made that, you know, known to all their holders to, you know, anybody, they just kind of, you know, everyone expected to go this full route in this full, like, you know, smart contracts, transactions, all this stuff.And to be just like Ethereum or salon or any, any of the others, but it looks like it was just, they did the hard fork and they, you know, now we start. You know, that's just my thought on it. It was definitely an interesting decision by car dyno, not to delay the smart contracts. Oh yeah. They knew it wasn't working.It was on the Testnet. So, I mean, they had to expect that these stamps weren't going to work when they, when they issued this hard for it. So why not delay? I mean, they get a lot of flack, especially on social media about over promising and under-delivering, I think this is one of those cases, but I think they probably should have delayed the hard fork because then the dabs could come out when smart contracts are running on the ecosystem.And it seems to me that would be a lot smoother way to do it, then release these smart contracts that nobody can really use right now. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so yeah, we've got a couple, uh, comments, one from HD 5,000 explaining about the transaction model. Oh, whoa. Can you hear me? Okay. Uh, so the, the unspent transaction model is what card auto has implemented.It it's the reason that these defy apps are having these problems. It's supposedly intentional, supposedly supposed to be bringing benefits. Uh, but we only need to see, uh, some, some sort of alternative to enable these applications, you know? Um, let's see, what else do we have here? So is it a problem with the developers that are building these decentralized applications then?And not technically Cartano smart contracts? I don't think it's a problem with the. They would like the developers building like incorrectly. I think it's just the model that Cardinal has chosen. Uh, isn't capable of handling this. It's the, it's a different model from Ethereum and it's, uh, unable to like dApps.Aren't able to do multiple interactions with them within one block is basically the, just a bit, I'm not super technical. I'm not an expert specifically on the, these deep, uh, portions of, I, um, if you guys know out there, please do drop some comments, let us know. So we can, you know, get all of our facts straight here, but, um, we'll have to see what they do in the future because without the, the, the defy ecosystem mirroring Ethereum, hearing Solana, it's going to be interesting to see what use cases they're able to pick up instead.So, um, that's what I have for today on Cardinal. Well, we can look at the prices or we can move on to, to the arbitrary news. Uh, were you guys feeling. Either way. Yeah. Maybe pull up the prices anyways. We can keep them on screen so we can maybe go over some layer twos and their prices. And then we can go over and look at how light coin has been affected by this recent Walmart news.Sounds good. I will say one thing about the last thing I'll say about the ADA thing. Cause someone just mentioned, uh, ADA tokenized or.io and I am on that site and, uh, it is in beta, but we're not saying that the Cardona does not have smart contracts. They do have smart contracts. They're just not what we would expect from the co-creator of Ethereum, but you know, it's just not ready yet.And it wasn't known how far it would go. So it's, it's still in a process and eventually it will be what we all want it to be in my opinion. I mean, hopefully we'll see some decentralized exchanges popping up soon. I know a lot of people are bullish on Sunday, swap, like to see that launch and I'd like to use it.I'd like to get my hands on it and start being active in the, in the ecosystem. And there's definitely a lot of opportunities within Cardona's ecosystem. Hopefully there's going to be some airdrops coming out. So if you're an early adapter to any of these different programs, Ancar Dano, there is a possibility that you could get airdrops some tokens, which would be really cool.Everybody loves free money. Just don't tell the S DC about it. Uh, yeah. So here, oh, this is Bitcoin. I was a Cardona for a second day. I don't know what happened. Eight years up at the Logan. Do you see one maybe for Coinbase by now finance? This will do. Um, so these are the weekly candles right here. So I was ripping through July.Uh, and now it's a correction. I mean, I don't necessarily think that this is like entirely the fault of the smart contracts. Not, I think it's pretty high. Yeah. There could be a lot of profit taking mixed in here. Uh, don't want to, to create any untrue FID, um, but we'll keep our eyes peeled on this situation and we'll keep you all updated.And we also want to know, uh, what you guys think about it. Um, and maybe you could even come on and chat with us, hit us up on Twitter. If that sounds like you. Um, okay, so let's talk about light coin next. Yes. Over the light coin. And then we can talk about arbitrary Monday or Tuesday after. Okay. Cool. We did just handles or.For show for show. Nice. Um, so you guys have been living under a rock for the past six hours. Light coin is not being accepted by Walmart. So it was fake news. It got picked up by a lot of different publications. Lots of stuff came out, but then the CEO of Walmart went on to CNBC to clear up the news. It's not actually happening.It's fake news. And the most concerning part about this, at least in my opinion, is that light coin, the light coin foundation actually tweeted about this partnership this morning saying that Walmart will be accepting them as a payment option. And then later deleted that tweet. So I don't know who sent that tweet out, who was able to do that, but it was completely fake news and it was pumped by the light coin foundation themselves.So I mean, people are talking about this being a facilitator for some more regulation coming in the space. I mean, not man. I see that because what we were at less than a hundred. $80. This news pump the price up to $236. And then once people found out it was fake news, we're right back down to under $180.So if you're able to catch that move, pick up on the fake news shortly coin, and you probably made some good money, but you got to stay up to date with this news. What do you guys think? Do you think this might cause some more regulation in the future? I mean, it's really the news publications fault for not verifying any of this information, but at the same time, light Quinn really shouldn't have tweeted about it.I mean, they're obviously wrong for that pumping fake news for their own coin. Not a good look whatsoever, I think. And there's probably a lot more backstory to this that we probably won't know because it seems like such a big deal. And if light coin foundation is bumping it. I mean, it is like announcing it, then there's something else going on or, yeah, it got the Twitter account got hacked, but that Newswire is from kind of a reputable source.And so they immediately, well, not immediately, but like a few hours an hour or so later they put a disclaimer, say, Hey, this is not true. Um, like going is not being accepted by Walmart, but it's pretty fishy. It's weird. Interesting. Weird. If you, what do you guys think if Walmart decided to accept cryptocurrencies, would they go with light coin or would they go with something else now?And, well, they're also hiring for a blockchain developer in a cryptocurrency expert, so they, they trying to create their own. So why would you accept light coin out of all of them? You know, it's just, it's just weird. All right.All right. Let us know what you guys think about this situation. Would Walmart take light coin? Would they take Bitcoin? Ethereum, Cardinal. What's going to be the move here. Um, but for now we have probably, yeah, probably doge coin. That's probably, I mean, that's from a, from a, like a technological perspective.Doge coin is the most advanced cryptocurrency in existence. Um,A whole lot of cap up in here. So I want to talk about Adam real quick. Uh, Adam has seen a new all time high today, uh, which is dope. We've talked to the creators or some of the lead developers on the cosmos blockchain on the cosmos protocol. Um, we talked to them a couple of months ago earlier this year, we talked to Dennis as well.Who's also working on the team, um, maybe like one month ago now. So go check out those interviews, uh, if you haven't seen them yet. Uh, they're really, really cool. Adam has a crazy project. That's all about blockchain interoperability, right? So there's a lot of blockchain maximalists. They say Bitcoin's the way.Themes the way to go us a lot is the way to go. Uh, and then cosmos comes over here and says, oh yeah, well, the demand for blockchain space will probably grow to fill all these blockchains. So eventually we'll need to connect them. We'll need to have room for application specific chains, uh, that can lower fees and all be connected through a hub.So cosmos blockchain is the central hub that all these other blockchains are plugged into. If you're familiar with polka dot, they got something very similar going on, but we're seeing this atom token rip. I mean, we interviewed them when the, when the coin was down here. Uh, it was such an interesting project to me that I was picking it up in these ranges.Uh, so now, now we're doing really well. This is a good day for me. Look at these. This is, these are the weekly candles here. These past three have just been nuts. Um, you guys, did you guys pick up any Adam I've been holding Adam's since it was about at $4, some I'm pretty happy with it all. Very nice. I don't have any Adam.And I mean, it looks like it might be too late, but you never know. It looks like we're in price discovery right now. And like we saw with Solano after we crossed those all time highs, we just ripped, we went up another two, 300% after that. There's really no telling where the price goes. Once we pass all time highs, especially when we're not in a bull market, per se, with Bitcoin and Ethereum at new all-time highs.I mean, typically these all Queens will follow the market, but when one of the few that don't don't and go to new all time highs, a lot of times you see really big gains. So I'm, I'm interested to see where Adam goes. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw $50, honestly. Yeah, yeah. Now they were die. Uh, so yeah, that's another one we wanted to point out today.Let's see. Should we talk about arbitrage? And we have about 10 minutes left before this interview, more like eight. I'm going to take my, my screen share off real quick. Maybe we can talk about arbitrage, uh, on a theory. Yeah, man. Our Trump's been picking up a lot of traction. There's over $1.5 billion locked within its ecosystem.It's a layer two scaling solution. It's a lot like optimism. So you, you bridge your assets onto the chain, the side chain, I guess it's not technically a side chain. It's a layer two, right? Logan. It is a layer two. Yeah. Okay. Uh, but yeah, there's $1.5 billion. Like most of this, it was interesting. I was looking to see where all this money was going within the arbitrary ecosystem.And most of it was going to this program called . So it was like a Nyan cat themed yield farming protocol on arbitrage. So since it's a layer two solution, the fees on it are much cheaper. So you can actually yield farm much more efficiently than say on Ethereum, blockchain. Uh, but this, the price of this Arvin nylon token one.50 cents 40 cents all the way up to like $8 within just a few days. And has since dumped back down to around 80 cents. So we were seeing super high volatility on this token, and it's going to be interesting to see whether these yield farmers stay in Arvind eye on with the price down so much now, but either way, $1.5 billion locked in an ecosystem that's been around.Well, I guess the ecosystem really is a theorem, but the arbitrary gateway has been around for less than a week now. And we're seeing already over a billion dollars, locked on the platform, which is just absurd to me. I mean, it took forever to see salon reach a billion dollars, and now they're at 10 billion.So we'll see where the growth goes, but it's looking really good for arbitrary. It is looking good for arbitrage and, uh, they sucked a lot of the volume out of some of the other bridges, specifically those to Solana and those. So I think Ryan, what was the other one there? And do you remember what the name of that site was?Where we could see them all. I don't remember. No. You mean Mulana, polygon and Solano, I think. And then there was one Holly gun that sounds right. But there were three and they were down like 30%, 40% and 60% well Arbitron was up. So it looks like a lot of this money coming from other layer, one scaling solutions like salon are, are actually flowing back into the Ethereum ecosystem and using these layer two solutions like arbitrary optimism, mainly arbitrary right now I haven't checked how much total value is locked on optimism, but I don't think it's at a billion dollar say actually, no, it's not at a billion dollars.USCAP because with all the layer twos outright now arbitrage has 60% of the total value locked. So compared to its competitors, it has the most by far, which is very impressive. I'm not actually quite sure. Why, why do you guys think that arbitrage is the one seeing adoption? I mean, it's pretty similar to optimism from what?Yeah. One thing is it's under the same umbrella as optimism. So it's owned by the same parent, well funded by the same parent company. So they're not technically competitors, but they do very similar things. Um, I couldn't tell you what, why one is better than the other, besides it going down to more, you know, better marketing, better selling points and just, you know, catching the right niches and places to go.But that is one interesting fact though, because they're both kind of in the same family that it's weird that they would, I mean, I really do not know. I'm guessing the arbitrary has more like volume available, more space available, uh, for processing. If I had to guess that would be the reason that it's beating out optimism at this point.Um, but they do use the same, excuse me, the same technology, the optimistic roll-ups. Um, and Ryan, I found L to beat right here, uh, and we can see there's $2.2 billion locked in arbitrary of 3000% over the past seven days. That's pretty good. I wish I could do that. Yeah. I haven't used arbitrarily yet, but Logan, I think you're right.I think it is cheaper to use arbitrary than optimism. Right now. I went in, I did a transaction on optimism on unit swap the other day, actually just yesterday. And it actually was kind of expensive. It was like 0.01 to Eve, which is probably around two to $4, which, you know, it's not bad, but compared to Solano, which is like 1 cent, it definitely doesn't really compete.It's still kind of expensive, especially if you're doing a lot of transactions. Now it's nowhere close to a theorem. That's 30, $50 a transaction, but you get that security with Ethereum. I don't think they're really competitors whatsoever. I think these layer twos are really competing with Solana and Binance smart, our chain and those other proof of stake.Smart car contract blockchains. Yeah. Killer killer question mark.All right. Uh, that is our market update for you today. We have Andrew kugel backstage right now, uh, from tokens.com. So I'm going to bring him on, uh, right now, Andrew, welcome to Muna bust. How are you doing today? I'm good. How are you guys doing great. Thank you. Uh, no on that, uh, that conversation that you guys, I mean, yeah.It's some interesting stuff around, so yeah. Yeah. What do you think about the whole, a layer two ecosystem? Are they the Ethereum killer killers? You know, I don't know. I think as a thing, I mean, if you look at what my company does, which is staking, I think that if can't move to staking quickly enough, right?So the funeral is trying to defend its market position by moving away from proof of work to proof of stake and, you know, eat 2.0 is doing that. You know, they just had that, that London upgrade. So I don't know what we'll, we'll see what happens hard to. Indeed it is. Uh, so Andrew, for those out there who haven't heard.com, uh, or heard of riot, can you, can you guys hear me?Am I cutting out? Yeah, you're fine. Okay. No, you're good. Um, so Andrew, so those who haven't heard about tokens.com, uh, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your background coming from Chile and how you got into crypto? Uh, yeah, so I was important in Chile, but that doesn't have much to do with my crypto, but, um, I tell you the story.I was, uh, I was an investment banker in Toronto Baca in 2011 for two decades. And I got really interested in crypto back in 20 16, 20 17. And the gap that I found is you have all these people who like to invest via the public markets. So like the Robin hood type people, public market institutions and mutual funds, and they didn't really have a way of investing because the level of sophistication that you guys were just talking about.Most people don't have that. They don't have the time to do that, or the ability to do it instead. They just want an easy stock that they can by trade. It's easy to account do the taxes for and all that stuff. And so back then, um, there wasn't a lot of ways for public market people to get exposure to Bitcoin.So myself and some other guys, um, you know, probably heard of a couple of the other guys, um, Mike Novogratz created a company called headache and headache was really a Bitcoin miner. I think it was the first public Bitcoin miner. And the main thing that made it different from all the other mining companies is keep the Bitcoin that you might have as much of it as you can, you know, pay the electricity, do not keep the Bitcoin.And today, uh, headache has a one and a half billion dollar market cap. And I think outside of like, um, micro strategy, maybe Tesla owns and holds more Bitcoin than any other public company in the world. Like a tremendous amount of that coin. The one thing though, that I started recognizing last year. And it goes back to what you guys are talking about is, you know, you try to take a step back and like, what are the big trends happening in crypto and defy an NFPS?Here's the problem. You can't process the stuff really on proof of work. Like you see the difficulties that Eve has having with it, which is why they're transitioning and Crusoe state can process a hundred thousand transactions per second. Whereas crypto mining community do about 15. That's a big difference going from one five to a hundred thousand.And so I decided to make the leap from going from a proof of work company to a proof of state company. Cause I'm like, this is where the future is going. Like nobody builds anything on proof of work anymore. Like when's the last time anybody lodged a blockchain on proof of work like credentials, Salinas, everything is staking now.So if you look to the future and again, to that thought of how do you give people in the public markets, easy exposure to this, um, We create a tokens.com. So we're a public company and we take our money and we buy tokens and we stake them. So we've got a big positions in each Binance, um, Pocono and Oasis.And we're also doing some, uh, liquidity, uh, farming, yield farming stuff with the Axion infinity, uh, shards, which you get the access, which you guys are probably familiar with. And I think we may be the only public company in the world that owns that and gives it to investors exposure to that. And so that's what we're trying to do.Like it's easy to get exposure to Bitcoin. I always find it amazing in Canada. They launched a Bitcoin ETF earlier this year, and Bitcoin's probably the easiest thing for someone to buy yet. The ETF attracted a billion dollars in 24 hours. You know, all of these funds that are out there, the money keeps pouring in, which just leads me to believe that my thesis, which is.People prefer to have something public that they can buy through Robin hood or their online trader through their broker and have it sit with the rest of them as opposed to going and doing some of the work to figure it out themselves. There you go. So you are basically the micro strategy of defy, uh, giving all these.So would you say your main audience is retail then? Or would it be, would it be institutional? You know what? It's both. Um, the largest tech mutual fund in Canada called CA signature. They manage billions of dollars. They came to us and said, we really like polka dot, but as a fun, the way we're structured, we're can't we don't have the capability to go out and buy, put it.This is before dot was trading on Coinbase and it's hard for people to get, but for them, it's also like, we don't know how to get it. We don't know how to secure it. You guys are liquid, you're staking it. You're making a yield off it. And we can have liquidity through you. And so they might ask their compliance department, they said, how much of this company can they buy?They want to buy as much of this as they could, but, but you're right. That's a good example. We are like the micro strategy of defy. The big difference is I don't think Michael Saylor is making any money off his Bitcoin that he sits on. We are actually so far this year, just on our staking. We're up about a, I think it's close to 25% on our cost basis on just staking rewards.Now it's not the 3000% that you guys were showing before, but we're a little more conservative in our assets. Look, crypto's volatile, but our assets are up over 70% since the end of Q2. So just for July, August and into September, we're up 70%. So the assets that we use to create revenue are up by 70% and then those assets have created another 24% of new tokens for us.So I think it's a pretty good business model. You know, we're looking to grow it and definitely there's interest. I always tell people, if you want to get exposure to Bitcoin, there's funds, there's crypto miners. If you want to exchanges that are out there, but if you want to get public market exposure to all points and specifically defy tokens, um, there's not a lot of choices for you.If you're more like a newbie or you just don't want to go do the work yourself. That's awesome. Let's see, you mentioned that you stake to get extra cryptocurrency in your portfolio, which is obviously a great idea, but do you guys use any other defy applications outside of actually validating that works turn any passive income on your holdings?Yeah, so we own a bunch of, uh, uh, Bitcoin, um, not, not a huge position, but like a relatively decent position. So we go on like pancake swap and some of those places, and I think we're. At last check, we were running about 14% on it. So that would be more of our active strategy. But generally speaking, our core strategy is buy stake and hold.And, um, like I said, not a ton of stuff. Like we really like polka dot. I think we miss Solana Solanas are a really good one. You know, all these guys are trying to see you who can replace, you know, Ethan and there's a lot of good contenders that there are. So you guys saw, you were talking about the credential smart contract watch and, um, you know, there's, there's a ton of cool things going on out there.Um, I don't think anybody knows where things will ultimately resolve, but I can guarantee in 12 months we'll be having some very interesting conversations. I think you're right. Totally. And I see that you guys are also invested into NFT gaming as part of your portfolio. So I saw you guys are, are invested in ACCE infinity and smooth, smooth love potion, which is another token on AXI infinity.Are you guys involved with the scholarship program at all and XC infinity, like, do you actually take these assets and rent them out to players? Or how do you make the yield on your NFT gaming platform plates? Yeah, so I think right now what we're doing, it's just, we're part of the liquidity pools. Um, so we're sort of trimming it.Uh, that's what we're doing. So the returns on the S on the smooth love potion, the returns have been exceptional, the yield side, but the performance has not been awesome in the last couple of months. Uh, kind of the reverse on the AXS we're seeing amazing appreciation. I think since we bought it, it's up about 65% or something, but the, the yield on it in terms of the liquidity pools, there's only one.20 to 23% are still really great. You know, it's funny in this world and having been a bank for a long time, if you were to make like eight to 10% in a year, you'd be like real happy. You'd be like, I just had a great year. I think crypto makes you a little bit nutty in that, you know, you go through like may and June where everything drops by 60, 70% and you got really upset.And then all of a sudden everything's up and you're, you know, you're always aiming for these big returns, but, but these are good products. And if you look at the big trend of NFTs and defy what's happening, I think, um, it's not just short-term gains. I think there's like real legitimate value here to what's being created in.Yeah, I mean, making 25% interest, uh, 25% of your return on, on interest alone, uh, must have the traditional financial system quaking in their boots. Um, but I'm curious, what got you into ACCE infinity? Was it the, you know, the big picture NFT, uh, play long-term or was it the staking rewards? Um, what about ACCE specifically?Got you into it? Yeah, I think, um, it's a good question. We were looking for ways to play the NFT space and what we will never do at tokens at least for now is we'll never going to just buy an NFT parking on our balance sheet and sort of hope that it goes up. Um, we're always looking for assets that we can buy, but a, we look at the trends, like what are the, what are the high level trends happening in crypto?And then we look at what are the assets that we can buy that will appreciate as a result of those trends. And then the number three criteria is can we use technology to earn revenue. And those are really the three things we're looking for. It has to meet that criteria. So when we looked at what was happening with the Axiom affinity and the excess and that mark Cuban behind it, we just thought that was interesting.We decided to dip our toe in and get some exposure. We're looking at other cool things. Uh, I'm sure you guys have talked about, but we're looking at, uh, the metaverse maybe picking up some real estate in the metaverse. I think that's going to be the way people are talking about NFTs this year. I think in 12 to 24 months, people are going to be talking about the metaverse in the same way.Hmm. Interesting. So you're looking at decentral land. Are there any particular metaverselike, like decentral land is the one that I'm following the most closely, but we're looking at a few of them. The one I'm most familiar with to central land. I think it's super cool that during a COVID they held a music festival. Um, so like you go in there with your avatar and, you know, you buy your ticket and you go into a field and you can listen to like, you know, a pretty cool DJ spinning, spinning.Um, I just think that the whole idea is pretty wild, but you have, you know, if I'd walk into I'm in Toronto, but if I walk through my city COVID and Amazon have killed the traditional real estate model where, you know, I see all these for lease signs everywhere I walk empty stores. And when I think about the potential here for the metaverse, which is you have a collection of people who are like-minded with their avatars and you're walking around and you have money to spend, um, and the land size is limited, right?I mean, the central land is what the size of like Washington city or something. It's like, it's limited similar to Bitcoin. There's going to be a scarcity value there. And so owning this land and being able to develop it and create an amazing experience for the users and the people that are walking by. I find a really interesting cross section between real real estate, which is kind of faced.And kind of where the future of real estate is, which is going to be these, these worlds, where we have all these people with money and looking to spend it. So, Andrew, if you were to get any. Oh, Logan. You mind if I have a follow-up question to this? Uh, we're lagging a little bit. Uh, I'm sorry if I cut you off sometimes Logan.Um, but Andrew, so if you guys do end up picking up, uh, digital, real estate, stay in decentral and, or the sandbox or whatever, do you guys plan on developing the land and trying to monetize it like you do with your other investments? Or would this be more of a speculative investment for you guys? No, we would want to monetize it.We same, same thing, buy stuff that we can generate revenue from. So, you know, I know, I think it's in decentral and galaxy digital. Um, there's areas you can walk by and they've partnered with, I think it was candy, but you can walk by and see like a billboard for galaxy digital. Um, there's a lot of value there and that you have what, three and a half million people using the, and right now you can walk by, you can use it as a digital space.The zoning rules are pretty light. So can I create some kind of gaming, maybe a casino, if you do it again, there's different things you can do to create a user experience there where they they'll want to spend money. But ultimate dream is to create a, a real estate investment trust, like a REIT that pays out a dividend to shareholders, but it's entirely based on digital real estate.Hm, I think we lost Ryan. Um, but I love the idea of creating a, uh, a metaverse read. I think that has a huge potential. I know, um, I've said this before on the show, but I've, I've heard someone like Gary V mentioning that there could be more jobs in the metaverse than in the real world, uh, looking long-term.And that just blew my mind. Um, especially with the, with the advent of things like basic attention token, when users are being, uh, finally might be able to be paid for their data paid for their time, online, feeding these huge algorithms. Um, it's going to be crazy to see where the metaverse goes and how much potential value could be unlocked, um, within it.So I want to toss it to Brian now, uh, for this question, I just highlighted them. So, uh, what made you decide to move from, I heard you were doing a lot of mining and Bitcoin mining and everything like that for mining to doing the tokens.com aspect. Yeah. Two main things that I really hated. So when I was, I was a CEO of a headache, uh, which as I said, it's a great company.They're one of the largest miners in north America, one of the largest public miners. And what I really hated is, uh, every quarter you have to depreciate the hardware. And so you guys obviously know what would be a minor. You got to order your stuff primarily out of China. And it's got a better four year lifespan.And that's because as the hash rate keeps moving up, you can only produce so much if it becomes obsolete. Um, so I, it was always having this big depreciation where at the end of the four years, you're your hardware isn't really worth anything. The other thing I hated was I would have at least one call a week from the media or environmentalist.And they would tell me that Bitcoin was cool, but I was destroying the planet. And so it was kind of a combination of those things that I started looking around and saying, what else is out there? And I came across staking and I think staking was really created to improve upon proof of work. It was created as like, what are the flaws with crypto mining.And how do you improve them? And staking uses 99.9% less electricity because it's based on ownership, not a massive processing power. So that's a win. And the second one is you can't do BFI really on mining because it's too slow and that's the problem Ethan's having. And that's why they're migrating the staking.Um, so when you look at sort of like where the puck is going or where the future is that nobody builds anything on crypto mining proof of work technology anymore. It was like, okay, I've built this company. It's doing well, it's positioned to succeed, but I want to build something new here. Whereas I think things are going next.I got you. That makes sense. Yeah. I definitely agree with that with, um, what do you think about, so the Binance smart chain and E uh, Ethereum going, if you're going to prove a stake and all that other stuff, where do you think all that's going to turn in the next five years? What do you see foresee for the future of everything we've just already talked about.Yeah. So again, my purely my opinion, I think, outside of Bitcoin, um, in three years, you'll see, look at the top a hundred blockchains and there'll be like out of the top hundred, like 95, and then we'll be all proof of stake. I think, you know, crypto mining is, is, is going to be the way in the past. I think you're going to see a, a split when we started seeing that a little bit this week, but I think Bitcoin Bitcoin is not a defined crypto.We all, we, we know that and understand that. I mean, there's lightning network. Maybe that could go in and change that. I know that's what they're trying to do over at square Jack Dorsey, but generally speaking, it's probably just going to be like the digital goal. Then it's going to start spending on its own over the last few years, everything sort of hits the same.Like everything sort of hit all time highs like early may, then everything dropped at the same time. I think what you're going to see happen is there's going to be a split bifurcation between Bitcoin. As a, the G crypto that doesn't do a lot of in store value and it's still great and awesome. But then all of these other things that actually have applications and don't use electricity.Um, eventually I, you know, I don't think it will happen in the next 24 months, but I do think it'll happen. And within 48 months, I do think equal flip that coin. I agreed. I told Logan before I've told Brian, I think there's probably like a third chance that it flips this market cycle, but of course that's just to be a speculation, but the use cases are definitely there for it.Yeah. I mean, what is it? 80% of all defy products are in there are still being built on Eve. Despite there being a lot of other good alternatives that people continue to use, you know, Eve and, you know, you can solve the same thing. Remember all those Bitcoin forks, there was Bitcoin light Bitcoin cash, but critical the coin SB, those all were supposed to be improvements on Bitcoin because they would process faster.The blocks contain more data. There's a whole bunch of stuff. They never took off. And so you might have a similar thing here that as Eve evolves to staking and eat 2.0 that Abel just become more dominant. That's a good point. But even with ease 2.0, transaction fees may be higher than some of these competitors say, like Solano and Binance smart chain.Of course you're paying that price for the added security and the robust network of Ethereum. But how do you see this playing out with retail investors? Do you think that they'll actually care about decentralization and want to use a network because it is the most secure, or do you think that other projects like salon and Binance smart chain will gain these retail investors who might be priced out of Ethereum?Uh, I do think that they're going to gain traction. Um, ultimately like when somebody goes to Ave or, or pancake, whoever, I don't know that they actually care who's behind it. I think they're looking at, you know, fees and how they can maximize their, you know, their borrowing lending or trading or whatever it is they're doing.And, and ultimately. People act in their best economic interests. So as long as it continues to do it does, if it becomes too uneconomical relative to its competitors, we'll lose market share. Um, and I think that's inevitable. So we'll see what happens. It's really hard to predict, like you're saying that this is a real pivotal time, I think in crypto, because you do have all these things that are up and coming this Atlanta as a crutch, nanos, um, all these different things are challenging Eve.And we'll see in the next six to 12 months, if there actually is adoption into those, um, the way people are expecting and pricing into the tokens. Hmm. So, um, when do you see ETH 2.0, launching? And do you think it's going to affect the proof of stake and everything that we have? Like, do you think it's going to affect all the chains?You mean? Yeah. Sorry, can you repeat that? We'll never be able to successfully upgrade or launch. So E E 2.0, has already launched and we're staking it right now. We own about, uh, over 2,500 east 2.0 that we're staking and earning. And the, if you, I mean, there's lots of sites you can look that you can look at, but the adoption is, is moving pretty quickly.I think at the last estimate, I saw that it was probably about another 24 months before the it's kind of a slow progression. It's not going to be, it's not an overnight flip into staking. I think it's, uh, uh, flipping into the evening. The other thing is when you're staking Eve, there's a, like a locked period or a bonding period, which I think this is really interesting and will help appreciate the value within here's why mining, which is predominantly how Ethas is secured right now, how the blocks are valid.You have to still sell your Eve as a miner to pay for your electricity and your hardware, right? If you use a staking company or is it staking a token, the money stays within the ecosystem. As a Staker. I never have to sell my Eve to pay for stuff in the outside world. I can keep it in there and continue accumulating and compounding it.And I think that's really smart decision because if you look at what's happening in Bitcoin during the crash, all the miners, the Bitcoin miners were like mining had to meet their costs. They were taking all their selling their Bitcoin as quickly as they could to pay for their costs in staking, the money stays within crypto because you know what, it was a really bad idea that you have to sell your crypto in order to pay for validating it.This allows it to all stay within the ecosystem, which means less selling pressure. Hopefully. What do you think that means? ETH. What do you think that means for all the ETH quote unquote killers out there that are trying to be a better version of, you know, a POS at theory them? Yeah. I always say P POS tricky, tricky, uh, acronym, but yeah.Um, I think they all function the same, so they all have different whole periods. So for example, dot is 28 days. Eve is a lot longer, but generally speaking that they're all different, but similar. And so they all keep as, as a staking tokens, they all keep their tokens within their own ecosystem. Um, so I don't know that that, that the staking aspect is really going to be what makes the decisions.I think it's just going to be the usability, but my perspective is Eve can't move to eat 2.0 quickly enough. Um, because you know, at the very least, you know, right now, Crypto mining as a bottleneck for Eve it's like drinking water through a pinhole. Like it's, it's hard. It slows it down and you get the fees.Will that change people sort of debate back and forth. But nonetheless, I think it's Eve is going to survive. It has to migrate to stay can quickly. Yeah. And for sure, we'll see, we'll see optimism arbitrary and all these layer twos, uh, kind of help along the way until we can get that, uh, the full sharding and the beacon docking.Um, so I have a question for you about regulation. How do you think the next few months are going to play out in Canada or, or in the United States? Um, for the crypto markets and, um, could this affect price action? Yeah, it always seems when there's a rumor out there or the sec comes out with something that there is a lot of, um, movement on that, you know, it's a bit of a loaded question.Like I think the key thing right now, everyone's looking at as this Coinbase sec battle, right. And I always say follow the money. And if you look at, you know, who sort of backs and influences the sec, it's the bank. And so I don't think it's a coincidence that they're like, you're not allowed to lend money.People are not allowed to make money. What was a 2.8% that they're offering it? Wasn't like, it wasn't anything crazy. It wasn't something crazy. But if you were a bank, this has got to be pretty intimidating. Right. And I know even from our company, you know, sending a wire, if you've ever had to send a wire through a bank, you have to get it there by like three o'clock.If you don't get it there by three, it's got away the next day and the money disappears for like 24 hours. And then you got to check the Atlanta, not lad. It's a really silly system and they'll charge you like 50 to a hundred bucks per transaction. It's still pretty amazing that with, you know, I know eat the fees can be high, but even with Bitcoin that I can send any amount of Bitcoin almost anywhere in the world, 24 hours a day.Anytime I want, I can do it within 10 to 20 minutes and it'll cost me like a dollar 50, if I pay for, you know, to prioritize it, right. Like. The banking system. This is why defy in my mind is just going to be the it's a massive game changer and wall street. It is embracing it. And Silicon valley is embracing it.It's just like the traditional banks that are, I think they're really scared because they can see their business model no longer works. Right. It's like being a taxi driver and trying to fight Uber. Eventually you will lose. Yeah. ACH is a definitely a outdated system and just needs to go away, just cash checking and all that.So hopefully that. And have you ever tried to send money abroad? I remember I'm from Chile that you guys pointed out. So sometimes I I'll send, I want to send some Viet to like my cousins or something as a gift. Like, you'd go, you've gotta fill out pieces of paper, the switch system, and like, what's that bank's code.And then it's got to go through a bunch of other banks by the time it gets there, you've lost 10% of your money given all the different fees. And it takes four to six days, right? Like. It's like a, it's like using a buggy and horse, you know, to get around, right. Like it's an old system. And then today, like the technology is here.I should be able to send money to anybody in the world that I want within 15 minutes and not have to pay more than $5 and lose 10% of what I'm sending. Boom, exactly. I mean, it makes sense today and looking back it's like you said, the horse and buggy is a perfect analogy there. Uh there's really no. Or, and Trish finance certainly should be scared.Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, and proof of work token should be scared too. All the stuff like, I mean, the majority of the proof of work tokens are there, but all these, like the coin forks, like, are, are they going to become a less relevant? I know they use them for some testing, but no one's programming anything on, you know, some of these things that I am aware of it, cause it would be kind of like creating apps where a flip phone, right.It's like, it's a. Only doge coin right now, but you know, that's part of it, but you're right. You know, all those were created before the proof of stake model came out. So yeah. Uh, Andrew, do you think that we could ever see a proof of stake? Bitcoin? Do you think that that, that network has the ability to make an upgrade of that size?So I am not the most technical guy. I'll give you my opinion. I put this down on Twitter wines and men like Bitcoin maximalists are so fanatical. They go crazy. Like literally started getting so much hate messages. I do think at some point in four to five years, when the, the energy use and Bitcoin, the hash rate goes up, I think there could be potential consideration and people may hate this.Maybe there's some kind of a hard fork or something into something that uses less electricity. You're staking similar to what. Um, but I think there's going to be, again, I don't understand that the technicalities behind it, but I'm pretty sure if like the entire Bitcoin ecosystem got together and said, let's form this into something with the same value, but that it has more processing power and uses less energy.There might be support there isn't today. Um, I think it's like sacrilege and people listening to me would be like, that'll never happen. But I just think that that the hash rate is going to continue to go up. And at some point there'll be more and more prevalent. You know, you got some real fanatical people on the other side of the United States, like Elizabeth Warren who are wanting to shut crypto down.And so at some point, you know, Bitcoin has an optics problem. It's kind of like a reputation problem. I think they need to figure out something to do as a community beyond just like the Bitcoin council that Michael Saylor started to talk to you on Musk. If the technology is there to use less electricity than they think that the Bitcoin developers and people behind the chip should explore that.Yeah, well, Bitcoin is certainly not new to having these, uh, uh, you know, public appearance problems. They've been called us all sorts of things since inception. Uh, so hopefully we'll be able to see public embracement long-term uh, I think, uh, as you know, Ryan and my generation continued to grow up in, you know, Weldon become a bigger part of the market than my frozen.Now you're now you're just rude. Well, our brains are boomer. Geez. Uh, I think our generation is more crypto native, and I think that we'll see this play out pretty well longterm. Uh, and, and I think that you agree, um, by Andrew, thank you so much for coming on and chatting with us today. Uh, it was insightful and we'd love to have you back on in the future before we wrap up, I just want to open the floor up to you to give any shout outs or leave the audience with any final thoughts you have.Yeah, I would just say if you want that check out tokens.com. Um, we've got some good information on there. I think someone was looking to get exposure to crypto, but didn't want to go through the process of setting stuff up. I think we're a really great alternative for people to consider. We started trading in the U S today under OTC.Um, and so now we are training in Europe, Canada, and the us. So, um, yeah. Look us up, link in the description below. Go check it out, guys. Andrew, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh, thanks. Alrighty. Uh, Mahesh, let me grab that link for you. It is in the description below it's tokens.com, pretty simple. Um, yeah.So what did you guys think, uh, of the interview today? What'd you guys think of tokens.com? I think there's definitely, I mean, there's clearly, there's clearly a need for it. There's clearly a demand for it. Lots of people don't want to go through the hassle hassle of custody and their own crypto, uh, and you know, trying to figure out how to earn interest on all these different platforms, how to stake on these different networks.How many wallets do you have to keep track of? Um, I, I think it's a good product and clearly it's been very successful. I like it better than. Um, and they have the huge markup. I don't like that. You think that millennials aren't ready for crypto and it's only gen Z, but we can talk about that later. Uh, go back to eating your Abacus benefits or money on avocado toast.How are they supposed to buy Bitcoin? And you guys weren't even born when Bitcoin was around. Yeah, you're right. That's a good one. Now you got me there. I wasn't born until last week, so geez. I'm pretty new to this whole thing. G jeez, Ryan. All right. You want to do well a Mooner bus today. We have about 60 seconds left.Uh, I saw someone talking about VJ in earlier and maybe we could talk about that. We tasers and we, we, we talked about V train a couple of times, but I don't think we've talked about taser at all. Maybe we should talk about tasers. They've been popping off lately. A lot of these, uh, different, these other projects that like kind of got left behind from Ethereum blowing up and buying it, smart chain, blown up and everything like that.There's some pretty cool things that are going to happen. And I think a lot of people believe that, you know, it's only going to be Bitcoin. It's only gonna be a theory. Um, but there's so much, there's a lot of people in the world. There's a lot of time, there's a lot of people into different things. So I think there's room more than enough room for everybody to get a piece of.Guys my, my, uh, birth certificate exists on chain only. I am an on chain asset in case we were wondering I was minted, not born. Uh, okay. So here we go. Here stays as a yellow, too funny. Um, here's tasers, let's pull up the seven day. The one month is certainly on a tear. Let's see how it's been doing since the beginning of the year.Ooh. It looks like we're in price discovery mode. This might be a good time to pick some up. Um, tasteless is another smart contract blockchain. Um, it's not talked about a whole lot, but it is in the top 30, a market cap of $6.6 billion. Um, do you guys hold any tasers? What do you think about it? I, I don't hold any, but I do like it, um, in the sense that I, I, like I just said, I think there's room for a lot of these others to grow and to get to the potential, you know, really big returns down like.I don't hold any taser though. So it's definitely an interesting project. And at $6.6 billion market cap, you could see a 10 X by the end of the market cycle, in my opinion, that would bring it to $66 billion market cap, very expensive, but still quite a bit less than Cardona. And I do think Tesaro's has smart contracts on it.If I'm not mistaken, I believe they do. Um, and yeah, so it looks like they're, they're one of their defining features is the ability to upgrade without a hard fork. Um, I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing. I've heard metallic make the argument that that hard forks are actually more inclusive, um, because you're not forced to adopt the upgrade.Like you are in a soft. Uh, you can choose to take the other path, but, um, I'm sure that they have learned from all these years of blockchains and forks and they're doing something pretty cool. I'm going to have to, uh, dig in while I hold a little bit of taser. So I really just picked it up because I heard people talking about it.Um, but this was like a long time ago. I really haven't been active in the ecosystem since then, but it's up 18% today, so that's pretty cool. Um, I'm gonna give this one a moon. What do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's one of those quote unquote old school and I used that in crypto, in crypto, uh, years, but it, it, yeah, I like it.It has a lot of room. It's just like up there with the other ones we were talking about today. There's definitely potential and there's no reason why it would fail. I think it would. I'll give it its third moon too. I mean, obviously this asset sector is hot right now. Proof of stakes, smart contract blockchain.That's where all the hype is right now. We've seen it with Cardona. We've seen it with all the other blockchains out there, polka dots, Ilana. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see a much higher present tasers. So yes, I give it a moon. Awesome. And you guys can pick this up on coin. It's a crack in, I think we got some links in the description down below.If you want a little sign up bonus, if you're making a new account, go check those out. Um, but I'll stop with the promos. Silly me. Um, okay, so killing me, loading Ross. So this whole thing is just a sponsored, sponsored advertisements. Uh, okay. That's enough. Um, speaking of, well, we have replacement. Follow me on Twitter.Check it out. That's all I got. Check us all out on Twitter. We'll give you some dope. Uh, and speaking of checking other things out, state tune to Benzing as YouTube channel, we got more great content coming up for you today. We got pre-market prep at the close. Uh, I'm not sure if that's the next show. If we got trivia beforehand, but whatever it is, stay tuned.You don't want to miss it. It will redirect you automatically. So don't go anywhere. Don't touch anything. The Touche par thank you. This has been wound or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. We will see you on Wednesday with another sick interview. We have the Salada Phantom wallet. You don't want to miss it.You guys got anything else? Any closing remarks for us? Not yet too many Twitter followers lately. Guys, I've been really sad about it, but a little depressed. Haven't been able to get out of bed every day. Really. So if you can just, um, attitude that they have the Z attitude, but yeah, I've been really sad about it guys.So cheer me up, please follow me on Twitter. Alright. On that note, we'll see you Wednesday.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircl

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:PolyNetwork HackMarket UpdateAxie Infinity Co-Founder InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market UpdateUniswap SEC TroubleBitBoy InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Ben Armstrong (Bitboy Crypto)Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptWhat's up zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. Today, we have a sick episode coming at you. I'm going to bring on my co-hosts. Now we have the defy developer himself. Brian Moore. How are you doing today, Brian? Doing all right. My back is killing me, but I'm happy to be.Great man. I'm actually having some audio issues right now. I can't hear y'all, but I'm just going to roll with the punches. We also have Ryan exit liquidity, McNamara. How are you, Ryan? I, I'm not gonna be able to hear you. Let me try to figure this out. Uh, y'all do me a favor. You hear me out about the markets real quick?I can hear you just fine, Brian. I'm doing well. I would ask Logan how he's doing. Cause I know he loves to be asked that, but he cannot hear us. Yeah. But yeah, let's get straight into the market update. We got some news for you guys and then we'll be interviewing bit boy crypto. So definitely stay tuned for that.You know, the markets have been going crazy. I would be saying, you know, it's a great day. I love my life. But you know, a couple days ago I did buy that did buy that year. It's gone down. I told you guys like, keep you up. Price wars around five Eve. Now I got it for seven. So, you know, I'm going to hold it. I think it's a blue chip NFTE.I think it'll go up. Uh, once eats starts slowing down. I think a lot of people just want to be in Ethereum right now while the prices are ripping. So, I mean, it is what it is. I wish I had a little bit more ether. That's seven ethic is goodbye for that. You know, I kind of wish I kinda wish I held it for this run-up but there's not much you can do.And I think the price floor is holding pretty strong, right around five. That is if he doesn't keep ripping, I mean, we're at $4,000 right now, per Ethereum. Just about all time highs. $4,300 to $4,400. So we're getting really close to new all time high, which in my opinion, that's pretty surprising because I mean, Bitcoins right around $50,000.So, I mean, we're still about 25% of the way to a new Bitcoin all-time high yet. We're only about five to 10% away to a new Ethereum all time high. So we see a theorem leading the markets yet. Again, Brian, you have any hot takes with Ethereum and Bitcoin right now. Well, I want to start off saying that I think you'll be just fine with your ape.I think that it was still a good buy at a good purchase rather. And, um, you'll, you'll make a good return. It it's a solid staple now. The future generation of NFTs. I mean, it was crypto punks. Now as 40 now you've got the mutant, you're a part of that ecosystem. I think it'll be great for Ethereum. I am super excited to pass 4k and hold.It looks like it got, um, held back after at the 4k mark. It didn't quite make it, it did make it pass it then got rejected pretty quickly. Uh, BTC is holding up above 50 K, which. That's always exciting. That's a great thing. Again, time after time, we're calling these shots. We're calling these prices us three, just.It doesn't matter. We're right. That's just how it works. You guys got to stay tuned in. We've been making really good calls lately. We'll see where it goes. You know, minus my NFT, we've been making some good calls. I have a new call to make. I think we will be seeing a $57,000 Bitcoin within the next week.So you heard it here first? I think we're going to 57. I like it. I accept 4k. You know, Bitcoin is now following Ethereum. That's just the way it goes in 2021 theory is no longer all coin. And I, for 1:00 AM excited to see a theorem flipping a coin, this markets. Oh shit. So you changed your life all summer long and you said, no, it's not going to happen.Why didn't you change your mind, Ryan? I said, there's probably like a third chance that it happens. So I still think that, you know, it's a possibility, it's definitely not inevitable at this point. Why people still don't even know what Ethereum is? I think Bitcoin has a lot of buying pressure when it comes to institutions getting in on Bitcoin.So it's definitely going to be a big battle for Ethereum to flip Bitcoin, but I'd say it's probably 50% chance at this point, this market cycle, I think. I don't know about more likely than not, but there's definitely a good chance at this point. I think so, too. I agree with that. I think 57 is a little high, but I like the 55 range.I think within the next week, two weeks, we're going to see 55. Um, I think we're going to see a theorem push the 4,200 mark and Bitcoin, the 55 57 mark. And I think that's when we're going to go a little bit more sideways for. Or we're going to rip to all new highs everywhere around, I mean, sonar, he mentioned Solana is ripping.Yeah. That's that's my boy that, uh, what I say is so long ago, mez, that's my girl. It's going to just keep on popping. It's going to keep on rolling. I'm all about it. I like it more than a Binance smart chain at the moment because of the potential. Uh, that it has, so crypto is looking good right now. We didn't even see Solana flip doge this morning.That was pretty cool. Smart contracts or something. That's crazy. Solana has smart contracts on it, so you don't even have to wait if you're in Cardona and you're waiting. Why, why, wait, why wait so long has that. So we're at $95 billion market capitalization for car Dano, and we're at a $41 billion market capitalization for Solano.So, I mean, we could see if, if Ana can compete with Dano and, and come to a similar market cap. I mean, we could see Solano around $250. I would not be surprised if we got to that range within the next few months with you guys. Oh, I think it's definitely possible. Especially with the, with the SPF backing.FTX is just pumping Salana, they're going to get more integrated into all these different things. We're going to see some cross chain action going on, connecting to a theory, and then a bunch of people are going to be bridging over. Um, just for those low gas fees. What about the Solana NFTs? Do you guys think that, that those have had an impact on Solano?Oh, absolutely. That that's, that's what started the whole rip and Roran that, uh, the DJ and apes, they that's what, put it off the map and now everyone's going, this will actually work. It's not just some random half chain and also a Axiom infinity is now I'm buying it smart chain, which is pretty cool too.I think we'll, we'll take, uh, I think probably not Monday because we're not having an episode, but. Episode, we might get into that a little bit, cause that's kind of big news, but, um, NFTs are changing the game again, but even more than they were, you know, back in January or February. So that's really cool.Alrighty. Uh, so I see bit boy just popped in backstage. I'm going to get the interview started right now. I'll pull my screen up and I'm going to bring Ben on. Hey Ben, how's it going? Pretty good. It's good to encrypt them. Yeah. Yes it is. Hey, I loved your keynote at the Benzinga crypto festival this week.Thanks for stopping by and thanks for coming on Muna bust as well. I love it, man. I liked the name. Appreciate it. So before we get into crypto, I want to talk cars a little bit. I know you have a health. Uh, it is the Lambo coming soon. Yeah. So, well, technically I don't have a helicopter got a demon, so no, I did.I did have a Hellcat. I had a 20, 21 Hellcat redeye and, um, it actually got stolen at the airport back in April when I went on a trip to Florida. So learning the lesson don't don't drive that thing to the airport and I bought the demon. So it's 2018. It had 15 miles on it when I bought it. So it's more car is actually faster than the Lambo.Uh, the Lamborghini is a, um, it's the STO. So it's the STO it's the best one. Thing's amazing. The STO is so cool. So I basically had to go through, uh, a dealer in, uh, in Florida in Jacksonville. And the GM there had one personally built and he's going to sell me that one. They got, they got an incentive thing or to get all the incentives as a dealer, they have to wait three months to sell it.So it's already in, I'm just waiting until that three month date, which will actually be right around my birthday near the end of October. And a nice little birthday present is black interiors, black and yellow. And we'll put some yellow accents, you know, kind of some wraps on the outside to highlight the curves.I'm super stoked. I mean, that's going to land, but what, what is there after that you're done. That's it? That's it. That's the goal though? Investors? Uh, well, you know, we haven't paid for it yet. I mean, we're going to pay for it, you know, um, all at one time. So we're definitely going to ask if they'll take crypto, uh, but we'll have some money moved over just in case it's 450 K so it's uh, it's it's uh, yeah.That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrats. That's that's thing. Uh, okay. So, uh, if there's anyone out there who hasn't seen your channel before, uh, could you talk to us about what got you into crypto and then what made you want it to start making it YouTube content? Yeah. Sure. So if anybody watch my keynote with the Benzinga crypto conferences the other day, I told the story about how I got into crypto.Just a quick summary is I got into Bitcoin in 2012. It was 12 bucks. First time I bought 1196, somewhere around there. And, uh, you know, To pay for a service. I was paying for a software that I was using it wasn't Silkroad related. A lot of people.I know you probably spent 30 Bitcoin on some mushrooms. No, that didn't happen. So. Uh, no, I use it to buy it, to pay for a software. And, you know, I sold it all in 2013. Uh, what I had my account, it was a few thousand dollars. And to my family on a little vacation, we went down to the beach and, uh, paid off a couple of bills.And I thought that was it. Then in 2014, Mt. Gox got hacked. And I thought that was the end of crypto. So I bought and sold a little bit in between 2014, 2017, but, uh, 2017 was when. I was just sick. Like I was looking at the price going up and I kept calculating how much money I had. Cause I had spent over 2000.Uh, on Bitcoin in between about 10 and 60 bucks. And so, you know, thinking about how rich I should have been, and I was there like struggling to pay bills and, you know, you know, by Christmas kids or a Christmas present for the kids and stuff. And I was just like, man, I really missed out on this opportunity.I wonder if there's any way I can salvage it. And so I decided to go all in on crypto because I really believed in, I love decentralization. Uh, I hate, you know, the tech autocracy that we have to live with that tells us what to do and runs our government really these days. And so the idea of crypto really reverberated with me.And so in 2018, I decided to start a YouTube channel. It was going to be a cartoon as were bit boy came from. And, uh, over time, like, it just wasn't a time where people wanted to have fun content because it was a bear market. And so my, all my friends, he encouraged me like, Hey, start news videos. We will care what you have to think.You know, you've got a good way of communicating. So started the channel over about two years, nobody watched. And then all of a sudden, uh, you know, starting in January of 2020 and things really started blowing up. And, uh, you know, now we've got the biggest. And all crypto. No, that's awesome. Congratulations.Yeah, very cool. So you've been in cryptocurrency for quite a while. I know Brian, he got some Bitcoin back in 2012 or 2013. So he feels, he feels your pain there, you know, getting in at such a cheap price, you know, if you would have only simply held, but I mean, that's what it is. Yeah. I mean, that's cryptocurrency for you though.And then you go down the rabbit hole, you learn so much, and there's so many different projects out there. So I'm interested in knowing what are some of your all time favorite cryptocurrency projects. And also, did you ever have. Favorite cryptocurrency projects, you were really bullish on, say maybe back in 20 17, 20 18 during the ICO craze, I actually went.Oh, yeah. Yeah, I got, I got a good one there. Um, I'll start there and then I'll go with, uh, you know, my, my all time favorites, uh, the one that went bust was called spective. It was S P E C T I V. And the idea of it, uh, or the ticker symbol was SIG. And the idea of it was awesome. Uh, and this is what we see with a lot of these ICO's and when Boston's, the ideas are great, similarly to like, during the, uh, Dot com bubble the.com boom, like pets.com was a great idea.It was just 20 years too early. I mean, you look now there's what, what is the one now art box, like that's basically pest.com, you know? And so it was just, the idea was too early. And so this was a, what we are seeing now with Oculus and what we're seeing now with a Sikh VR, some of these virtual reality projects, it was just ahead of its time.It was a virtual. Uh, platform where you could go to sports, different sporting events. Now this was before the pandemic. So we didn't know, you know, this, this would be a thing down the road, you know, that was super relevant, but you go to concerts, go to sporting events. You could go to theme parks and ride roller coasters in virtual reality.And I just thought, man, this is such a great idea. I think this is going to be huge. And this project doesn't even exist anymore. You know, that was one in, I lost a lot of money on that one. Um, at the time, you know, it was a large part of my portfolio. I was like, this is a coin of going all in on. Uh, and so I put a bunch of money into it and then it went to literally zero.Uh, it's not even around anymore. They do no development on it. So, uh, that's when. My friend, who was the person who encouraged me to do the news videos early on, like, that's the big joke between us always, you know, we still talk about SIG. Like that was the one we spent hours trying to learn how to use a decentralized exchange to get it to, you know, six hours.I can never get back, but because that's how long it took back in the early days to use a deck, trying to figure it out, it took me six hours to make it. It was extremely complicated. I mean, I had every, you know, tab known demand open on my Chrome browser was trying to figure out how to do it. Uh, but as far as favorite projects, um, you know, I mean, obviously, uh, Ethereum is, is probably my all time favorite project.I mean, I absolutely love. The decentralized internet. Um, I know now we've got web three and we've got other projects, you know, polka dot. They were working on similar stuff. But I mean, the theory is really the one that started this movement and I'm just not a fan of the few making decisions for everybody.And I hate that. I go totally against that in every regard. And so because of that, I love a decentralized internet and I think he can actually, this is somebody I say a pretty good bit is that, you know, people always love to say. Crypto in blockchain, it's in the wild west, right? You guys heard people. Oh, yeah.All the time. That's a lie. The internet is still in the wild west. And so de-centralization and blockchain has a way to actually stabilize a lot of the deepest and darkest and worst parts of internet technology and the way it can be used. I mean, I always like to use the example of, you know, we should not be living in a world where an eight year old can grab his mom's phone and pull up hardcore pornography and.Like one minute seems like a pretty big, pretty big gap there between what we should have. And then what's reality now for it's consenting adults, whatever they want to do, but children shouldn't be able to do that. And yet they can do that all the time. It's a big problem in schools and, you know, I could go on and on about it.That's a big flaw with the internet right now and blockchain through identity verification. I think one day, you know, you're going to have your phone tied to your identity. We know Google has the ability to censor images that go on the search results. So we know phones have that ability too. So. You know, person to person, you know, a 14 year-old, can't be sending a, you know, a 14 year old pictures on their phone and stuff like that, their identity who he tied to, they just couldn't see it.Um, the phone would not allow it. So that's just one example of something I think is a really big flaw in the interview. The blockchain can solve very easily. And then we've got tons of other problems out there from identity fraud to, um, you know, credit card fraud. So many things that can be tied in a better way to our digital identities, which Cardona, you know, might play a role in is they're working on a lot of that stuff, trying to win a contract with the European union.Um, but you know, back to back to a theory, I think it can solve through smart contracts. Basically every major problem we have on the. It's got the biggest developer in community. I made a lot of money on it theories over the years, we were telling people to buy it when it was under a hundred dollars. Uh, people that listen, they're doing very well right now, people that didn't listen, you know, they continue to kick themselves.And hopefully at some point they got in, uh, Cardona is also a project that I do love Ethereum competitor, but, um, you know, some of my favorite projects, uh, you know, just to kind of list a few outside of Ethereum, uh, Cardona. Polygon car Tessy V chain. Uh, you know, chain-link, these are my favorite. Yeah, you pretty much all mine.You should tell Ryan Cardona one more time. Let's see. Yeah, let's dig into that for a second. Um, so Ryan, you aren't bullish on Cardona as much as some of the rest of us are. Uh, maybe you could explain why. Yeah. First, I'd like to clear this up. I am bullish on Cardona. I think we'll probably see between eight to $12 by the end of this market cycle for Cartano.So I think there's really good returns to be made, but I like to invest in more so in the community and the ecosystem. I know Cartano has a great community around it, but they don't really have much of an ecosystem going on because they don't have smart contracts released yet. Um, so I like to see the adoption.I like to see the value locked say on Solano with the serum decks, for example, has over a billion dollars now. And it's about half the market cap of Cartano. Um, Ethereum obviously has like over a hundred billion dollars locked at this point within its ecosystem and the most users by far. So, I mean, there there's pros and cons to all of this stuff, but I think that Cardinal is promising.And hopefully they deliver, but we haven't seen too much beetle delivered yet. So, I mean, maybe I'll get more bullish on Cardona once those smart contracts are released. And I see how that ecosystem develops because yeah, it sounds great on paper, but until we actually see it play out, I'm personally not in.Yeah. I think the Cardona has a lot of big followers, especially because of Charles Hoskinson his presence. Um, but Ben, I'm curious to hear what your take is, why you're so bullish on Cardona over something like Salana that already has the ecosystem going for it. Yeah. Well, I would say Solana is all scammy, but that's, that's, that's a whole different, that's a whole different story.Now. We love salon as a project. We love the serum decks. We think, oh, I've been bullish on Selana for ever, but a digital currency group who runs all our crypto in roundabout ways has, uh, has their hooks in that thing. Very solid. And look, if you think that the Solano pump we've had this week is based upon its growing ecosystem, that I've got a, a bridge to know why is it pumping?Because just last week it was reported that the number one coin institutional money was, was going into. Was Salada number two was Cardona. Number three was a theory for the first time ever. Solano was number one. And right after we get this news, it pumps like 70% big shocker. The big money drives the entire ecosystem in the markets.And that's what we saw. It has nothing to do with their growing ecosystem, Ricard Dano with their ecosystem. Like I love to talk about like, uh, w when it comes to debates I have with. It's always like to have timelines, you know, like, you know, people will talk about, you know, Bitcoin having a lengthening cycle, like, okay, when's the date when we can say that that is or is not true.I like to have things that we can look at. Okay, you're right. I was wrong or vice versa. This is one of those things with Cardona, like great. You have nine days left to make that argument. You got nine days left to make the argument that they have no ecosystem. Right after that nine days, you're going to see car Dano is going.Fastest most explosive growing ecosystem we have ever seen in crypto, and it's not even going to be close. So two months from now, its ecosystem is going to be probably five times bigger than Solanas. That's probably not an exaggeration. If you look at all of the projects that are lined up to launch, Ancar donno, it blows salon is a way now, as long as growing, it's doing.But two months from now, you're just not gonna be able to make that argument. And the thing that I don't like about the Cartano haters is they, and, and really what I don't like about haters in any realm of the world is they're just constantly moving the goalposts. You know, at first it was like, well, they don't even have anything.So then they get all their code together and they're like, okay, well now they don't have a main net. They're not even watching it. And they launch their main net. Then they're like, well, the roadmap is usually they're never getting more contracts. Well, here come the smart contracts, like every piece of the, of the way it's been criticized.But at some point, that decision point is going to be now and all of those arguments are going to be invalid. And so that's coming very soon. I love Charles Hoskins and he's one of what I believe to be the few authors. One of the few authentic people in crypto, I don't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of anybody from grayscale.Reading like Coinbase or anybody from CoinDesk or coin tell a lie. I don't believe any of those people. Charles Hopkins, Johns Hopkins, somebody that you can actually listen to and he may, he may be wrong about something. He actually believes what he says, you know, Eric Vorhees, Alex Mashinsky, these are other people I put in that same category.So, um, I definitely believe that, uh, Coronado is going to be everything they say it's going to be, and it's got 71% of the total supply locked up in nodes. So from a price perspective, it's already going to crush it. So, you know, I'm just waiting for the ecosystem to match the hype and it is going to have.The fact is there is no real relationship. Just like I told you a Solana, there's no relationship between the price of a project and the fundamentals and its use case. There's just no connection, especially at this point in a bull market. So Ricardo, there's no connection between the speculation and what they actually have already.Uh, but when they launch a smart contracts that should strengthen the speculation, but it will be many, many years before we actually see a connection between successful projects in. Awesome. So, uh, you mentioned something earlier about lengthening cycles. I think that'd be a great segue into our next question.Um, so you say that the, the bull run is going to end by this year, correct? But yeah, this month, by the end of this year, by this month, really? Yeah. So September 28th is a date that I've said, uh, for about a year and a half, almost two years. Now, there there's a lot of evidence to base that off of now. The individual date is not important.I'm not Nostradamus or a bit moisture. Like I don't have the exact date. The thing that's more important to understand. That's a marker. That is a marker for approximately when the bull run from. Bitcoin should end it's based on something called the golden bull ratio. When you look back at the history of the Bitcoin cycles, they're evenly matched between the first half of the cycle before the happening and the second half after the happening or the having.So we know generally when this should end, now, I've always said, give or take. Now starting to think maybe two weeks we could go into the middle of October, possibly around the Fort, you know, somewhere between the 12th and the 15th, but that's me just trying to pad just in case I I'm I'm wrong. I still think it's going to be by the first week of October, it's going to be over.We're going to see explosive movement for Bitcoin, uh, over this month. And then next month, this thing is going to die down. However, all coins are going to run for considerably longer. Uh, I've always said between Halloween. Uh, but I do believe that because we only have one, all coins cycle to base that on.Uh, we have four Bitcoin cycles. We've got one all coin cycle. So because of that, it could be longer. It could be shorter, but I would definitely lean towards a longer all coin season. Uh, I've always said Thanksgiving should wrap it up, uh, but could possibly go, you know, to, to Christmas, somebody says I make all my predictions based on whole.Well, they're good. It's a good time to Fiji to make sure you see what, what timeframe you're looking at. Cause you know, Christmas, Halloween for the July, all that stuff, you can break it up pretty easily. I get that. Exactly. So are you surprised that Eve is leading the way right now? Um, and then also, what do you expect BTC to be around during that peak?Okay. So I do not find it surprising that Ethereum is leading the way I have a theory. I'm definitely EIB 1559 is what kicked us off. And we knew EIP 1559 was going to have some significant price action on Bitcoin. It's not a buy the rumor, sell the news event, kind of like the, the salon of hackathon, which is all a joke.Um, But, you know, this is actually a fundamental thing that affects the price because it makes a theory of deflationary instead of inflationary. And now it's looking like, you know, recently more deflationary than even Bitcoin. So, um, it was just supposed to make it less inflationary, but. Regardless. It is moving maybe to deeply coronary.So that's a fundamental effect, you know, supply and demand that does compound into factoring into the price. Um, so it, it doesn't surprise me though. If someone asked me, uh, last week, they said, you know, what's going to hit an all time high, first Bitcoin or Ethereum. And I said a theorem and it looks like that could be true.I don't have. Let me pull up the chart right now and take a quick, pull up the price. Yeah, there he is. At 39 63. It's just been hovering right around 4k. So I mean, we are less than 400 bucks away from an all-time high for it. So I can't imagine Bitcoin pumping. You know, $14,000 from here and a theory I'm not taking up 400, so Miriam is going to hit all time highs first.Uh, I've always said that, you know, the, one of the markers for this bull run is going to keep referring back to predictions I made years ago, uh, two years ago. And the reason for that is pretty simple as now that we're very close to all of these timelines that I've talked about for a long time. It's more to be able to watch and understand I'm not making these predictions based on last week.Like these are all numbers and dates I've had in mind for. So when it comes to, to, um, you know, Bitcoin and Ethereum specifically, um, I've always said that one of the markers of this bull run would be by the end of it, uh, theorem will be a household name by the end of 2017. Bitcoin was a household name didn't mean everybody was in bed.But during that peak, everybody knew what Bitcoin was. They could tell you it was digital money. They may not have bought it, but they knew a friend who did, or they saw something on CNBC. They knew what Bitcoin was a very loose sense. By the end of this bull run, a barium will do the same thing. So it's always outperformed.Ever since it was around no reason to think that that's going to, you know, not continue. So, you know, it is the returns or Bitcoin gets smaller and smaller over these cycles. That only makes sense that people would shift more towards a theory. So as far as top price for Bitcoin, um, my original price, when we were looking at, uh, Uh, super explosive bull run was around the stock and flow number.Um, the number was $289,000 to start to flow commodities chart that that is applied to Bitcoin. I thought we'd see a $300,000 Bitcoin, but unfortunately we saw a lot of manipulation from the institutions as we always see. It chopped out the remote side of this bull run. So that means that we are no longer looking at a two, three, $400,000 Bitcoin.Like a lot of people believe you can't just chop three months out and get to the same price. So in my opinion, a hundred to $120,000 will be the absolute tops for this book. And the craziest most wild, you know, moonish prediction I can make, I could think of maybe it runs to 150 to 160 K, but I don't see that happening.I definitely think somewhere I'm looking specifically about $110,000, uh, to be the top right there between a hundred K and 120, it will hit a hundred K this year though. And it's going to happen fast. This is all going to happen. So, what do you think about, uh, like, um, are you familiar with Benjamin Cohen?His lengthening cycles? I like him. I met him on the show. You know, people think I don't like him cause I always talk about his cycles, but he's got, he's got a lot of influence out there and I just, I just happen to think he dropped. Yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. It's, it's re I mean, no one knows. Right. We'll have to wait and see.Um,I mean, if you have more thoughts on, on, uh, like your case against the lengthening cycles, I'd be curious to hear. Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I've never believed in lengthening, sorry. It may be a week longer, but, but basically his premise is it's going to be many months longer. A lot of people believe that we're going to be peeking out in, uh, 2022.And that's simply just not going to happen. There. There's a lot of reasons for that. There's a lot of technical reasons or a lot of fundamental reasons. And more importantly, there's a lot of manipulation reasons, uh, that we're not going to see that, uh, the big talking point from the government lately has been inflation.When have you ever heard the governor? Warning people about inflation. That that doesn't make sense. Right? So you got to wonder what's really going on in the fall. Maybe late fall, we are going to be moving from inflation to deflation. I understand it defies logic. It defies logic. We see all the money printing.We saw the stimulus, but now you look at Wells Fargo cutting personal credit accounts also. Corporate credit accounts, but knows when this happened to why would they be doing that? They're trying to hold on to more of their own money. We have the eviction moratorium that was, uh, you know, tried to be extended at all costs.They say, of course it for political reasons, uh, the administration wanted to make it look like they were trying to put that in place for votes, but that's over, which means you're no longer protected from eviction. If you can't pay your rent, which means you actually have to pay your rent. Most of the people by.That that, that, uh, we're granted that more. Could work. Cause we know only 50% of jobs in America were shut down on average, 30% of all jobs in America during the deepest part of the pandemic were still considered to be essential. Okay. So the point here is this is that there's a lot of free money. That is stopping.Why is the government stopping the free money train? Well, that would be because the government itself is also trying to hold onto their money. We're looking at bond yield tapering, which is the key to this whole thing that will be happening probably sometime in November, between October and November, that is going to have a big impact on the economy.And it has a big effect on the stock market. We are going to look at stocks going down at the end of this year, the stock bull run will be over by the. Uh, so not only are we looking at crypto now talking about stocks going down, but the entire economy is going to take a big hit. At first. It's going to seem very positive though, because what happens is, is that, uh, places have to stop when the dollar becomes more valuable.That means that companies or retailers, they drop prices on stuff. But when they do that, they're making less money, which eventually leads to job cuts and people getting laid off right now. Anybody who wants a job can go. By next year, that will no longer be the case. So because that inflation is kicking in, in the fall, it lines perfectly with every timeline that I put together.And so I can't believe that there is going to be a lengthening cycle. Cash will be king come late, come winter hash will be king. Once again, I know that is antithetical to every crypto argument that we've been making for years, but the government's about pull the rug out from under us. And I believe that part of this is going to be USDA.Playing a role as the digital dollar, meaning there will be more demand or it, when you move to a digital dollar, you take away the, uh, the, the geographical borders around being able to get access to your money. That's going to create a higher demand across the world for the U S dollar. Uh, and I think that that's going to ha also have a, a big impact on the inflation.We're seeing the dollar index rising as we speak. So th there are a lot of factors in my opinion, that point towards. Deflation black Swan event coming in the fall or in December. So sometime in between October and December, and Bitcoin is not going to thrive this time. And this is good for Bitcoin. It's great for Bitcoin that this is going to come at the exact end of what should be the bull run.Imagine if this has ha had happened three months. There would be no more bull run. So it's really advantageous. That's why my channel, we really preach to people. You know, you sell either bottoms. That's how you change your life. Got you, man. That was a whole lot to take in. I didn't even, I never thought of it that way.That's such a, like a really creative way to think about it because I think you're absolutely right. That never really crossed my mind how. It being in a bearish or even a downturn cycle is actually a good thing, but then also a larger scale economy, bad thing, but then can be transformed into progress and, you know, some really major gains in the future and kind of get us up this rut we're in because of COVID all that other stuff.That's. Thank you. That's crazy. That's a great way to look at it. One thing I wanted to ask is, so what do you think that this whole mindset on a Bitcoin versus Ethereum and pretty much everything you just kind of went through, do you think that might turn people into more of the. All coin or Ethereum maxi over the Bitcoin maxi because Bitcoin is kind of becoming a little bit more, not outdated, but just the use case isn't as there as it used to be.And now it's just people who really, really like it. People want to be about it and big institutions and PR quote, unquote, old money now getting into crypto, you know, 10 years too late, but they're back into, do you think we're going to see more switch into besides gray scale and all those switch into theory them and you know, some more.Yeah. So, I mean, technically there's no those standards in all queen maximalist, you know, there's no there's things in there, maximums, but I like to call myself in a theory. Maximalist is a joke patrol the Bitcoin Maxis, but, um, yeah, I can't stand Bitcoin maximalist. I think they are the most toxic people in all of crypto.Um, they have become the very thing that the. Out to fight in the beginning, which is just the deepest irony of all, you know, like trying to control us. Like you can't invest in that coin. Like trying to tell me what to do with my money. A lot of these guys, they just got rich early max Kaiser. Um, you know, a lot of the guys that wrote all, uh, you know, a lot of the books to do the Bitcoin podcast, Meadowdale, peanut recording.These guys got rich early well, Peter McCormick didn't, but a lot of these other guys that got rich early off Bitcoin, and they just have held onto this. And they won't let go of it wine. It made them all their money. It's the same exact reason. Warren buffet doesn't invest in a blockchain's exactly why Amazon had to wait until Jeff Bezos moved on from CEO to get interested in crypto.Jeff Bates has made all of his money in the traditional system. We're above it made all his, my in the traditional system. Jamie diamond made all of his money in the traditional system. Why do these guys want crypto? They don't. And it's the same thing with the Maxis. They made all their money. Why do they want all coins to do well?Uh, but it's very apparent to me. Ethereum is going to patch, I believe a hundred percent. The theory of will pass Bitcoin permanently in the next five years. Um, I think this year it's got a good chance to touch it and then retrace, uh, maybe pass it by a few million dollars or a billion dollars and then go back down.Um, I don't think it will permanently pass it this cycle, but I think it's got a great chance to pass it. At least for a moment, get rejected then in four to five. Has it permanently a theorem is such a bigger opportunity than Bitcoin. It's hard to even put it into words. Uh, Ralph Powell was actually on my show this week and he said, he believes that the future is a $200 trillion market cap for all of crypto.The vast majority of that is not going to be in Bitcoin. I can't see Bitcoin ever achieving over a $30 trillion market cap. Uh, I've actually said 20, but maybe 30 being super generous, uh, $20, $20 million market cap would basically mean it eats the entire market cap of gold and then doubles that that would be 20.So I think that's. But when you look at the derivatives market, which Ethereum helps deploy into crypto, it's a quadrillion dollars. It's a quadrillion dollars. It's more money than you can visualize. Now that's two thirds of all the money in the world are derivative. Uh, theory and other, you know, uh, blockchain, uh, projects, a similar vein can pull those into our market.And when you look at that, that means that crypto has bigger potential than anything we've ever seen in the history of mankind. Uh, you know, to be a huge, a unifying force. So, uh, and that's not even, that's not even bring it. That's just talking about derivatives. That's not even bringing in the actual use case of a de-centralized internet, which we all desperately need and want.And let's, we're going to be living in a, in a big brother society. And I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about the book, uh, where, I mean, we're already there to be honest with you. So if the room is one of our best hopes to get us out of that, so. Uh, internet between the derivatives market. Uh, there there's just no better thing than a theory out there over the long-term.It's definitely not Bitcoin. So I think it's just a matter of time. Look, somebody to like, this is trying to like put banned. On something that doesn't work anymore. You know, it was just trying to fix something. It's never going to be a currency. It's digital gold. It does graze digital gold. It's never going to be a currency.And there's nothing that the Maxis can do to, to make that, you know, that that dream come to pass El Salvador accepting Bitcoin is a great example. This is going to be the Bitcoin maximalist, worst nightmare. They feel like El Salvador, 70 big one. Yes. Everybody can get his currency. You know, what's gonna happen.The people are going to realize that they don't want to spend it because it goes up in value. So anybody that gets is going to hold on to it, it's going to feed the whole purpose of having it as a currency. So I think really this El Salvador experiment is going to be maybe the linchpin and finally driving away that narrative, that it is occurrence.Yeah, Ben, I really like your take on, on Bitcoin and ether earlier on in the show before you came on, we were just talking about the possibility of Ethereum flipping Bitcoin. This market cycle. Logan certainly thinks it will. I think there's probably a 50, 50 chance or so, but definitely in the long run. I mean, it's almost inevitable.I think Ethereum will pass Bitcoin's market cap. There's just so much more you can do, especially when you have a 200 trillion say 10. 10 years down the road and we have a 200 trillion or even a hundred trillion dollar market cap. There's just no way that Bitcoin can be dominant in that scenario. Like you said, it's, it's the digital gold and it will be used as that as a store of value.And yeah, like you said, it's a $10 trillion market cap for gold and Bitcoins, much more accessible, especially 10 years from now. So yeah, maybe 20 trillion, maybe 30 trillion, like you said, but I mean, It has so much more potential to do so many more things. Um, so speaking on the trends here, we've seen a lot of new trends in crypto, especially on a theory in these past couple of years.First we saw defy. Now we're seeing NFTs. Do you have any thoughts on the future of the fire in NFTs? And do you see any new trends coming about in the next few months? No, I don't have any opinion. Okay, have you, have you gotten sweet, sweet move on? You know what? I just pull in my leg. Um, yeah, so I definitely think deep by NFTs and gaming coins are the three niches to watch in the.Um, cause I do believe in a bear market, I believe in a deep, painful bear market. Uh, just like we saw last time, the one I didn't believe in and then it came so this time I definitely believe in it. Um, and so those three niches, I believe are ones that have the opportunity maybe to hold the best or to have independent moments where, uh, you know, their use case and their act, not just our use case, but their actual number of users and what they're putting out.We'll have the ability to have some pumps, even within the bear market. So those are three things to watch. I think with NFTs, this is an argument I've been getting into a, we, my business partner, uh, TJ, a lot of people know him from the show, but you know, he, he thinks that in the bear market in upkeep projects are going to go down.And then the individual collectibles are going to go down as well with them. So like, let's say you have a board ape let's say is worth $200,000. Uh, you know, Ethereum goes all the way back down to, let's just say, you know, $1,500 after maybe it hits 10,000. And that means that, you know, the board ape is gonna, you know, shoot down that same percentage.So it's only going to be worth, you know, $30,000 or something like that. I, I don't believe that's true. And the reason is. I have spent a lot of time, um, working in the sports memorabilia business, actually. So I used to have a, you know, I used to sell assigned football helmets. It was really interesting to watch the values of those helmets.From week to week, one week, we would have a helmet that would come in and that helmet would be worth 2,500. The next week, we couldn't get rid of it for 600. And that may be based on all, you know, factors like, uh, you know, maybe somebody got traded and that's it now his old helmet, or, you know, maybe a new version of the helmet came out, maybe a team got a new logo or something like that.So many factors played into that, but. The collectibles market moves that way for baseball cards, for Pokemon cards, for football helmets were movie memorabilia. It's constantly going up and down. Let's start here constantly going up and down. So, whereas with crypto in the price of the NFT projects themselves, I do think we're going to see considerable bear action.I think within the bear market or the NFT collectibles, we're going to see that same kind of ebb and flow of the prices independent of the presence of the collection. Independent of the price of the coin, if that makes sense. So do you think that NFTs will actually underperform Ethereum in a bear market say that the board is worth 48th right now?Do you think it will be worth less than 48th when, when it's Ethereum's at $1,500 or do you think it will probably stay around the same price in Ethereum terms? Well, I think that it's a great question. Um, there's one, I've got to put some thought to, I would say that. The thing you have to take into consideration is this, there was less interest in a bear market in general, by a long shot.Okay. So guys that were doing YouTube videos, for instance, and we're getting hundreds of thousand views on them in the bull market, like back in 2017 in 2019, you know, they were, they were lucky to hit 10,000. Okay. There's less interesting. When there's less interest, that means that there's less demand.And so that less demand would seem to indicate that the prices should drop across the board. But the NFTE buyer is not necessarily the crypto enthusiast. Now they may have become a crypto enthusiast through buying NFTs, but we're seeing through a lot of these mainstream celebrities and athletes, a new kind of buyer.That is not necessarily super savvy on the crypto markets. I mean, I've done interviews time after time with, uh, you know, different celebrities and athletes. They're like, man, I'm really into these NFTs are really care about Bitcoin or Ethereum. So because of that, that means that even when the interest drops, that there still could be a level of interest from people outside of crypto and NFT is like, there's no question about it.It Ft is the bridge to adoption for crypto the mainstream. Bridge to adoption. We're seeing it. We're seeing people who would never be in this space. And the thing that people really discount are the companies that are behind the scenes, making all the moves, getting themselves ready to sell NFTs, kind of like the NBA did without an NBA top shot.Seeing the NFL positioning itself. We have a call with a professional sports team next week. They're wanting to do something with us. With a w excuse me, with our NMT launching program. So you're seeing paramount. You're, you're seeing movie companies everywhere, uh, Kevin Smith, director of clerks, uh, you know, doing clerks three, it's got blockchain through it.So we're seeing Hollywood getting interested. And I think this is something we're not going to see stop. So I actually believe if you were to tell me, would I rather have a board ape or the equivalent amount of. I would say I would probably rather have the board ape because it's going to move more radically.There may be a better time for me to sell it, you know, on a pump that Ethereum, which is going to be pretty much. Hmm, that's fascinating. Uh, so, so bad. I don't know if you've heard the news, but as of this morning, the sec is reportedly investigating unit swap, uh, and the unit swap labs team in the United States.Um, do you think that, that these, uh, governance tokens should be listed as securities? What do you think is going to end up happening? Yeah, all cryptos a security. Let's shut it down. We had a good run in the chat. Let's get some . So here's the situation with, uh, with the unit swap. This is not about unit swap at all.Uh, this is about ripple apps. This story that is out today is 100% about ripple labs. It is not about unit swap. This is a diverse. This is a look this way and don't look at what we're doing over here, because what's going on is that the ripple labs case is getting settled very soon. I believe by the end of this month, that will be over.There's a lot of evidence now coming out to support that I've been sounding like a crazy person for two months saying it would happen in the middle of September, but now I'm actually starting to get a little support on that. There's a, there's a court date on September 14th that could end up being the final.Uh, you know, the final nail in the sec coffin here. Now look, the sec is going to make it look like they won. They're going to do a settlement with ripple, and they're going to say like, see told you they did this. Now we gave them a fine, this is not what the sec wanted for this case. They are losing the case.They just fired their director of enforcement, the director of enforcement resigned last week ever. On the job since January the second one to resign in a very short order of time, direct reflection of the ripple case. I don't have time to get into all the topsy turvy, muddled. Uh, you know, uh, you may not know this, but the lawyers for ripple were a director at the sec and the director of enforcement at the se.During the time the XRP token was launched, that's just dependent. Yes. So there's so much about this case. It will blow your mind, but it's over. This is over. This is not going further. The settlement will probably come this month. Maybe it comes next month, but I believe probably by the middle of this month towards maybe about the 20th, we're going to get this case over now.What does this have to do with unit swap? Well, the government's got to move on to the next thing. After taking a loss, this. Gary Ginsler, a lizard person is I like to call him. Gary Ginsler has to save base and move on to a, another big target, something shiny, a shiny object that are able to bike can be like, oh, now we're scared about you.Just swap. Let's totally forget about the sec failure against ripple. That's what's going on. Ultimately. There's not much to go after on unit swap. Uh, I don't believe because of their, their process for listing tokens, you basically list anything there and get liquidity. The team itself is not providing liquidity for every coin that is on there.All they're doing similar to Bitcoin is offering an open source way for people to be able to, you know, trade crypto. So I don't think there's much to go on. They could certainly hit them with a fine now unit swap labs makes big fees on these transactions. So they certainly do have a lot of money to pay some fines.That's probably where that thing will end up. If you haven't seen a pattern here, you're not looking. The pattern is sec failure equals buying and selling. For the crypto projects, other than a few that have been given a view that didn't really launch or couldn't afford to fight libraries still in the thick of a fight against the sec, they don't necessarily have the funds.The ripple apps has, uh, the kin token, uh, from the messenger. They were gone after very, very, very hard, uh, Paragon was shut down. It was a scam. And of course EOS, you know, they went after them hard, uh, for a $2 million fine, I think on a four or I think it was a $98 million fine on a $4 billion project. So it was about, you know, a very small percentage of what they actually raised.So the sec doesn't have a winning track record here in crypto and, uh, the remote story. Just like BitConnect, uh, they, they, they're now trying to assume three years after the fact when nothing was happening. Like, all right, well, we'll just going to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what absolutely.That's another one of those shiny object things everybody's talking about. Big connect. All of a sudden, again, I'm talking about, but have a quick follow-up to that. Do you think that XRP will start trading in the U S after that settlement? Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, crises, some positioning even before with some exchanges starting to realist as we get closer to the middle of the month.But yeah, it's definitely going to be trained and that's all thing they're going to get the fine, they're going to be able to keep training. Um, and that's why I've said that in my opinion, for price alone, XRP is the number one coin for the second half of this. Heard it well, Ben, thank you so much for coming on.Sharing some knowledge with us today. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure the audience did as well. Uh, we have your YouTube linked in the description below so people can go check you out there. Uh, but if you have any closing thoughts, any shout outs you want to give or any other places you want the audience to connect with you?Uh, the floor is. Yeah, we just launched our a bit lab academy, uh, where people can learn about blockchain if you're new. So it's good for your audience that may not necessarily be the most advanced crypto user. You guys can check out bit lab academy.com. Awesome. Great. Thank you for joining us. Hope you have a good day.All right. Thanks. Bye.Well, uh, what'd you guys think how that was C was awesome. I mean, there's yeah, I learned a whole bunch. I didn't even think about it that way. Especially the U S economy or like the full even the global economy side didn't even think. You know, I haven't correlated the two in the terms of bear bull market and see what it's going to all kind of come together piece together.And that's really, really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. He's so deep in the ecosystem. He knows so much about it. Uh, and he's very convincing with what he says. Um, Ryan, you have any thoughts again, Logan, if it, if we do see a hundred thousand dollars Bitcoin in the month of September, will you be selling? I mean, yeah, I think so.Yeah. I mean, if we do double that's, that's definitely a sign of a blow off top. I think I would definitely start averaging out of my position, but at the same time, we've seen, we've seen close to a hundred percent pumps before the bull market was over. So, I mean, there's definitely different takes and, and a lot of things to take into account.I think that Ethereum's proof of stake might be the blow off top for this crypto market cycle, but only time will tell. Right. But like he said, he thinks the altcoin market's going to continue on after the Bitcoin top, which I think is really interesting. And I'd love to see that play out because there could be so much that goes on there and really people will be only focused on the altcoins that could really kind of change the narrative.That BDC is king. I mean, we're continuing to see that BTC dominance slide in the east dominance rise. So we're 20% now, uh, which is just crazy. Um, and yeah, I, I mean, I think he shared a lot of interesting ideas that I really hadn't heard before. Um, and yeah, I mean, it it'd be really, it'd be great to see what happens, you know?Yeah, totally. I think I heard what you guys said. Cause I had my headphones. I had, my dogs are going crazy, but I think that's spot on. And I think that Ethereum has a lot more room to grow in terms of, you know, just mark cap, everything and Bitcoin has kind of hindered it. The fact that yeah, someone in the chat said they do have DFI.They do a smart contracts. They do. And they don't, and it's being added years and years later where they have, they're going to have to catch up the whole time that all these other chains have had them. They're going to have to catch up. And these developers don't always work on these other chains.They're just strictly Bitcoin. And so it's it, Bitcoin started all, it's just like anything else. Bitcoin is the key to this whole movement to everything that we know, and that we talk about on a day-to-day basis, Bitcoin has started, but. Everything else has kind of surpassed it. And now Bitcoin is like, uh, what the pound compared to the Euro.You don't use one, one of them anymore. You only use the other, but it still started that their whole currency. So there's a lot to say. I hope that Ethereum, I personally believe that theory is superior to Bitcoin, but that's just me in terms of where I want to store my, uh, where I have the best store of value, where I have the most functionality and where I can actually grow in the whole ecosystem in general.But that's not saying I don't not like Bitcoin, cause I do. Yeah, for sure. I mean, Bitcoin is one application of DFI, right? It's a store of value. And then every other application of DPI requires smart contracts. So the rest of it's going to be going on, on, on blockchains that can handle smart contracts.I'm not entirely convinced about Bitcoin's ability to upgrade or the lightning network's ability, uh, to really do some advanced stuff that we can see, um, on like fully, uh, turn, complete virtual machines, like the, the EBM, the Ethereum virtual machine. Yeah, I liked, I liked that he was bullish about Cardona.Um, he's definitely more knowledgeable about it than I am. I didn't even know about the European union deal. Um, but that would be huge. I know they're doing a lot in Africa, which is pretty cool too. Um, crypto is insanely popular over there. It's really, really cool. Really cool to see that happening at the retail level first, but that's what crypto is all about.Right? Right. That's right. Solano will not flip. I'm just going to say that right now you can quote me, but that's really interesting what he said about Solano where, cause he's right. That whole pump, I mean almost a hundred, 200% in the last week or two. It's not just because people are looking at, there's a reason this money is coming in, because if you look at the market cap and that's a whole lot of Regan money that's been pumped into, and that's just not people rein and retail investors putting in there one thousands, 10,000, maybe even a hundred thousand.I mean, if you're, if you're that, um, fancy. You know, there there's something else going on there, but that is a good sign that people believe in it. And even if it's shady, even if it's real, even if it's not, you know, that's still a great sign for it, but he's got a good point. And, um, I've been bullish on Cordato for awhile and Solano, but I cannot wait until we see what Cordona can actually do.Cause I'm a big fan of Charles' house. Yeah, for sure. Hey, no, I want to highlight your comment real quick. Eve can't scale. No, the main net can't scale. Uh, but it will have shard chains, 32 parallel blockchains that will scale. And then also other layer, two solutions and side chains will help a theorem to scale as well.I mean, that's what metallic has been saying forever. Um, so. Uh, can scale. I don't think many people will be using the main net and in the long-term for most applications, unless you need that heavy, heavy level of decentralization. Um, we have run completely out of time. We have zinger stock trivia, uh, starting one and a half minutes ago.Uh, so I'm going to wrap this up now. Thanks everyone for tuning into moon or bus today. Uh, hope you enjoyed. If you did smash the like button, we had a great show for you, a great interview, uh, and we will see you not on Monday it's it's labor day, but we'll see you in. Wednesday and we'll get samples for the thingPalooza giveaway. Next Wednesday guys, go check Benzinga Twitter to win a free 200, $350 ticket or a thousand dollars VIP ticket to doge. Brilliant. So go check bins and get Twitter and retweet it. Hit it up. We will see you Wednesday.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Market UpdateWhat to Expect for Crypto in Q2 2022 Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Register for our FREE Healthcare Small-Cap Conference and have a chance to win 1 year of Benzinga Pro! Register for FREE hereEpisode Summary:Lil Uzi Rug PullVolcano MiningElon on Crypto RegulationIcon Blockchain InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Scott SmileyCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. My name is Logan Ross, and I'd like to welcome you to flight 51, aboard the moon or bust rocket. Ship your home for all things, altcoins and defy. I am joined today on this adventure by defy developer, Brian Moore and Ryan mutant, ape McNamara. How you guys doing today? Fantastic. All my friends got robbed, but I'm still here.I'm happy. I'm doing well. How are you doing? Uh, I'm doing well. I'm doing well. We're doing a little bit of prerecorded interview today. So if you guys are watching this live, unfortunately we won't be able to hang out, uh, like usual. Um, but we enjoy and appreciate you guys coming in and checking it out as always.Uh, so couple of things we got to get out of the way before we can get started first up most important safety procedures. Anyone who is willing and able and seated in any of the rows in existence, please activate your like button into the on position and we will be cleared for takeoff. Also, if you were here for crypto content, make sure you check out the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel.It's a separate. Channel that we will be moving over to, uh, in a couple weeks here, we are pushing to a thousand subs. We going to do a giveaway when we hit it. So you gotta be there early. Uh, all right, let's see what else we got. We got some dope links, uh, in, in the description below, we have the Benzinga money site.This is the team that Ryan and I work on. We spend all our time building these pages for. Uh, it's all about the education over there. So go check it out. Uh, we also have a mood, our bust game on the money site, uh, where you can go vote moon or bust on all of your favorite tokens. And you can see all of our favorite episodes as well.So go check that out. Uh, also we have a telecom. Uh, and if you join it, we will throw you a 25% off discount code for the moon or bust Merck. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, uh, as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter. We'd love to hear from you, uh, feel free to hit us up. DMS are open if you have any crypto questions, uh, that we can't get to because today's episode is not live.You can ask us there. All right. So without other way, let's get right into it. First topic of the day, a little Uzi vert was promoting this NFT project called the eternal beings. He had it as his PFP on Twitter. He was tweeting all about it. He said 6, 8, 4 minimum mint price was not six E six sole for.The mid price was 2.5 Seoul, which is pretty expensive compared to the standard. And guess what happened, Ryan? What happened? Logan? Tell me what happened. Give us this vertical. Mr. Vertical himself deleted all of the content relating to the project from Twitter, basically disappeared, rugs the community, uh, and nothing has been heard from him about it since then.Ain't nobody say. How's it supposed to go to a six soul floor. If he's just going to delete the tweets, that's obviously going to create. That's what I'm saying. Trust you gotta trust any celebrity that has NFT project, you know, it's legit and nothing wrong will ever happen to it usually may have a diamond forehead, but he definitely does not have diamond hands anymore.Shapes and form. So about 20 minutes, sorry, Logan. I just got to get as many puns in there as a can I see what you did there? Nice one. Uh, yeah, so, I mean, he posted this, it was up for a couple of days, uh, and even Snoop dog gave it a little quote tweet with a shout out. Uh, and it looks like maybe Snoop, might've gotten a rug as well.We'll have to check his Solano wallet. If he has one. Here is the projects page. It's a Salada NFT. So it's on this salon. Uh, marketplace and you can see the price floor is a whopping 1.7 soul that is down like a 25% from the mint price. That's an Oop. Yeah. Hopefully a Snoop dog dropped it. Like it's hot and didn't keep hold on to it because man, that's just ridiculously crazy just to hype it up, use all your followers and everything, hype it up and then just say, all right, see you like, he doesn't like he needs the money.Like it. What the heck? Well, I think it's us too. I mean, it's 2.5 sold a Memphis $625. You rarely see NFTs that are that expensive to men. I mean, even for API club was 0.08 to mint, which at the time was probably like $200. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Woke up this morning at 7:00 AM, checked my phone, uh, and saw that that's just the way life goes.I mean, Uzi must've been drinking and smoking a little bit too much. Uh, and he's a cool guy too. Like he's really down to earth. Have you seen any interviews? He does. I wouldn't expect someone to. You know, status to do it, but then that goes to show you any way it could happen to anyone. It could be from anyone.Yeah. And I don't have a problem with celebrities sponsoring these NFTs either like, go and get your bag. But when it's a NFT project project surrounded by your brand, I mean, these NFTs look like Uzi. It had a play on words from maternal uptake. So like this was very deeply intertwined with easy, not only that.But a winner is supposed to win backstage passes to a Lil Uzi vert concert. Is that even going to happen anymore? It probably not, but I'm not sure. It seems like he's totally not affiliated with this project whatsoever right after them. It's definitely not a good luck for the NFT community. And I think it's not a good look for solani either since this was one of the few projects that have really blown up on Solano's ecosystem.When I saw the mint price, I was like, geez, that's a rack. Uh, I need to get my money longer. And then Uzi erased his social. And I was like, man, I got some PS and QS. Jeez. I was like, what? Eight pounds? And once this guys, we need some likes for that. I am on top with these puns man. Well, I've seen a lot of this stuff happened with the, uh, like BNB shit coins and all that kind of stuff.I'd expect it to happen within a T projects, which has has, but it, it is a little, you know, take, it takes you back a little bit. Whenever you see someone of his status, he just straight rug, something like this. And S yeah, ma he was trying to buy a silly watch or a Canadian goose.But now I got I'm sorry on repeat.All right. That's enough Uzi puns for one day. Um, so next topic we have, uh, it is that El Salvador's volcano, Bitcoin mining farm. I'm sure you've guys have heard about it. Uh, they just dropped a dope promo video. Uh, and I want to share with you guys and show you the progress. On that. So here it is.Have you guys seen, if they've released any specs on this. As far as how many miners, the hashing power or anything like that? No, I'm not sure. Not, they're pretty much experimenting with it right now, which is pretty cool to see like them using volcanic energy as a energy source to power all this stuff because of the amount of carbon.Footprint that Bitcoin mining has in the, how detrimental it is to the environment when it gets to these levels, which they're, you know, utilizing a lot of power, especially from a volcano, but there's a little bit mixed reviews in this, uh, world bank does is says they're not impressed with the, uh, El Salvador move, but El Salvador has no.Taken out, you know, capital gains tax on Bitcoin. And if you mine it, and you know, they are doing something that's positive for the environment. So it kind of can go either way. It's going to be kind of hard to tell when. So who's the winner in the outcome of this and a lot of El Salvadorians live outside of the borders.So there was an economic report that estimated Western union will lose a hundred million dollars of profit each year, just from El Salvador, switching over to Bitcoin, which is pretty crazy. Yeah. It's kind of. I think this is a more sustainable strategy too, because as Bitcoin mining gets harder and harder to do your margins get less and less because you're spending so much more money on electricity.It was something like this. Once it's set up, you're not really spending money on electricity, you don't have that overhead costs. So, I mean, over the longterm, I think this is a very solid play by them. Especially as the hashing power increases with Bitcoin's price. Once am I getting things for two, once somebody can create a, um, more.Re-usable mining machine or just the hardware. I think that they are going to create a, you know, are going to be very, very rich, but also help the environment a whole lot more than what it is. Now. You only get a handful of amount of time that you can use a, a GPU or, you know, whatever you use to mine, the Bitcoin, because it's so much power that's going through those machines that they run out like that.So someone can find a sustainable way to make them. Resilient. I think that they would definitely make the world a better place for Bitcoins is not going anywhere. You know, it's only going to become harder and harder, like you just said. Right? So the startup costs for this project are probably pretty huge.Um, but once they ROI, they'll just be printing money from that volcano, which is really dope. I'd say quickly. Quite quickly. Yeah, I see. You mean, you saw the scale of that operation there in the video. Like they have huge, huge, uh, Rackspace. When we running a ton of hashing power. Yeah, I think this should honestly be a little bit bigger news because we saw the news broke when they bought 200 Bitcoin and then they bought another 200 Bitcoin.But that's really not very much, especially for a government. Something like this is definitely much, much more costly in a much larger investment over the long run. Yeah, I agree. There should be bigger news. Uh, but instead the headline of this morning was your favorite person ever. I, in Elon Musk, you want to tell us about that story?Elon Musk? Yeah. So Elon Musk was interviewing and he basically said that the United States should take a hands-off approach when it comes to cryptocurrency, he said they should do nothing. And. And this makes sense. I think a lot of people in crypto do agree with him. Uh, I'm not sure if legislators are going to listen at all.I don't really think there will be, but I guess this does bring attention, uh, from the retail investors. And I think a lot of people agree with what Elon Musk has to say, even if they aren't very educated on the topic. So it's good to see that he supports a hands-off approach to cryptocurrency. I thought something else from the same interview is actually really.I think he commented on China's mining regulation about how China banned Bitcoin mining earlier this summer. And he thinks it has something to do with their electricity generation issues. Because about 50% of, of the Bitcoin mining power came from China before it was banned, which is a huge amount. I mean, Bitcoin's network uses about the same amount of electricity as a small to mid-size country.So it is an enormous. Electricity is super cheap in China. So that's why so many people were mining there, but if they have electricity shortages, so some people are going without power because there's simply just not enough electricity to go around. So that's really interesting. I never got that take before, but that definitely could play a role in it.And I'm not really sure where it goes from here, but I don't think that that China's going to be introducing Bitcoin mining anytime soon. I think they're going to stick to their ban. And I mean, the innovation is just going to have to go somewhere else at the end of. Another thing I thought that was interesting from that interview was that he said, he thinks that crypto is basically unstoppable.So, uh, you kind of have to embrace it or kick it out of your country and let the development happen elsewhere. So that's why he said that, that the us should take a hands-off approach to crypto regulation and quote, do nothing. All right next up. Uh, this has big, we've been waiting for this for a while, but it happened for the first time today who be global is offering USD, DC, uh, the salon, a version of it.So USD C on Solano is now directly purchasable and, uh, and sellable on Hubie global. Um, I expect to see a lot more moves like this in the future where, you know, you can buy your layer. If like already, so you can buy Ethan polygon or you could buy Ethan arbitrage them, then you wouldn't have to pay the, the bridge fees.The exchange will take care of that for you. Uh, I expect this to become more and more popular and the first big example of that happened today. So I thought that was another cool thing to share with. All right. That is our news segment for today. If you enjoyed it, especially that Lil Uzi vert segment, make sure you go ahead and smash the like button for us.Uh, so other people who might enjoy this content can find it as well, and we can grow the moon or bust community to be one of the biggest on. Next up, we have an interview with Scott smiley from the icon project. Now, if you guys don't know, icon is in the top 100 market cap of all the crypto's it's available on Coinbase.It's a super dope blockchain interoperability project. So, uh, without further ado, I'd like to welcome Scott to moon or bust. How are you doing today? Scott Logan. Thanks for having. Hey, the pleasure is all ours. Uh, so first question for you. How did you become interested in crypto to begin with? Sure. Yeah, it, uh, started back in early 2017.I was working in investment banking and my roommate came home and he had downloaded the Coinbase app. And I didn't know a damn thing about Bitcoin Ethereum, light coin. Those were like the three that were listed on employment at the time. I was like, what the hell is the difference between. Um, and I took one look at the charts though.And I was like, I need to find out what the differences I saw. I think at the time, like the theory was at like 75 bucks skyrocketed from 10. And I was like, you know, the fact that I could have participated in this and didn't, it's still something I need to learn. I want to understand what I'm doing before I just click.And then from there, I just like started spending my nights and weekends and what little free time I had as a banker, just educating myself, reading white papers, talking in different chat rooms, talking to admins, talking to node operators and just like I had absolutely no software development or understanding at all at the time I was just pure finance and just really educated myself.Um, and then started going to conferences and actually. Uh, Minkin, uh, the icon founder at a conference in DC, I believe. And, uh, just started talking to them, asking more questions and then April, 2018 is when I first started at icon. Awesome. That's a great story. So could you give us a high level overview of what I con is?Sure. Yeah. So, so I kinda isn't always has been a interoperate interoperability protocol at, at heart. Um, when it first started, it was more focused on enterprise use-case. Where they were, um, the plans were to set up multiple enterprise versions of enterprise blockchains, and then use the icon public blockchain.It's kind of like a communication layer between them. Um, but w what we've all seen, um, you know, over the last few years is that enterprise adoption is a bit slower than we all. So I'd say like about a year ago, we decided to pivot more introduced, uh, like broaden our scope, uh, stay to stay relevant in the, you know, uh, public blockchain industry and focus more on public to public blockchain, interoperability.Um, so that's kind of what we're focusing on now. We're going to be launching our BTP protocol later this year with, um, let's see the polka dot Kusama ecosystem, finance, marching harmony. Uh, and near, I believe we're the first ones that we're working on, but once we have kind of all the, uh, all the foundation, like all the frameworks for these different smart contract languages, it'll be a lot easier to add, uh, other blockchains going forward.Interesting. So I'm curious, how are you integrating with polka dine Kusama through moon river or something? Right? Yeah. Moon river, uh, had a good, uh, test net implementation setup. So it was the easiest to kind of integrate with them first. Um, so yeah. We're starting with moon river and also talking to a Cala plasm.I think they rebranded as like, as star or something like that. And, um, yeah, the one is Edward as well that we've been in contact with all of those different pair chains in that. Interesting. So I'm curious, I don't know how, um, like technical, uh, you'll be able to answer this question, but, uh, moon river is like a it's EVM compatible.Right? So could you, uh, kind of use the same tools to connect to with Ethereum as well? Yeah, that is true. Um, so there is one, like, uh, there's something that moon river did to bear EBM, uh, to help us that we needed, uh, to be able to integrate. So. We will be able to add Ethereum, it's just going to take, uh, some changes to the icon core blockchain, which we'll be planning, you know, after we do these initial implementations to be able to connect to Ethereum.But you know, my logic is that important to connect to a theory and that we will do it, but there's plenty of bridges to Ethereum, like through these other networks that we're connected to. I don't think there's going to be any issue moving Ethereum assets around, but we also have the orbit bridge on the Eikon network, currently a direct connection to Ethereum.Um, but the, the architecture is the same Logan. Can I put it in just for a second? I have a question for Scott. Uh, do you have any plans on implementing salon and especially after these past couple of months with all the hype around it? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Um, so salon is also rust based smart contracts and near protocol is also rust based.So we'll be able to use a lot of the work that we'd done in near protocol to integrate with Solana as well. Gotcha. Cool. Okay. Awesome. So if you had to pick like one thing or maybe a couple of things that separate icon as an interoperability project, what would you say that is? I think one of the things that I get most excited about is the security aspect of it.So the way most of these interoperability solutions, where currently is some sort of proof of authority, Node system, uh, amongst the relays where there needs to be, needs to be some consensus amongst Greenlands, whether it's two thirds plus one consensus, or it's like a multisignature wallet in the end, the relays themselves control the minting and burning and locking and unlocking of assets that are being tracked.Well, an icon, uh, in icons, BTP, the relays have absolutely no control over any of the smart contracts. They may not be malicious, even if they colluded, all they can do is fail to deliver messages to an icon. Relays are a source of liveliness while in most other interoperability solutions, relays are a source of security and a source of.That's very interesting. So, uh, what utility does the icon token have and, um, what gives it its value? Sure. Yeah, pretty pretty, uh, pretty high level, broad stroke question there. The, uh, I see X is like, um, you know, icon is like a layer one blockchain as well. So it has, it's a delegated proof of stake network.So you stake and lock your icon tokens and vote for a validator and you earn your share and block Blackboard. Similar to many other DPOs networks, cosmos, included plenty of them out there. Um, and then in terms of the, uh, how it fits into Beto ETP and accrues value from more usage of BTP, that was something that we tried to think a lot about, like being the interoperable interoperability protocol is great, but how does it help, uh, accrue value to this?So what happens is there are fees generated from BTP when sending tokens between networks and sending cross chain messages. And those fees are aggregated into a smart contract on the icon network. And that contract will then auction the fees off at a discount to ICX holders and take the ICX proceeds that it earns and burns them.So it creates like this token sync, the more fees that are generated through BTP, the more ICX has taken off the market to purchase these tokens. Gotcha. Interesting. So I'm sorry if I missed this, could you, could you tell me what BTBY right. Yeah. That's the blockchain transmission protocol. Uh, that's kind of like, yeah.That's icons interoperability. Gotcha. Gotcha. Or unique. So, Scott, you mentioned earlier that icon's focus was primarily on private enterprises a few years back, and now you've shifted more towards public blockchains. Can you explain basically what your offering is for private enterprises? I know you kind of briefly went over it, but, uh, can you delineate the difference between your offerings for private blockchains and public blockchains and how that.Yeah, absolutely. So the, the enterprise side actually comes from separate entity that, that works very closely with icon. Uh, it's called icon loop. They're based in they're based in Korea and they do, they have a lot of relationships with like the Seoul metropolitan government, for example, uh, you know, that's the, the city government, and then, uh, Jeju island is like a popular vacation spot in the area.And they have a relationship with a Jaguar island government. Um, and then like some banking institutions, insurance companies, they have this thing called the . Which is a, you know, big, uh, cohort of enterprises and government entities looking to use enterprise blockchain for, um, are looking to use either enterprise or public blockchain for identification services.So pretty much what it comes down to is icon loop had a ton of relationships with, um, you know, different enterprises and government entities in Korea. And the plan was to set up, uh, enterprise blockchains in a lab. For example, you could, you could understand. You know, maybe, uh, an enterprise blockchain that was being used by, uh, the banking industry would want to be able to communicate with perhaps, um, insurance company, uh, like in a blockchain run by insurance companies.So the plan was you to communicate. And share proofs of information through the public blockchains. So that way they wouldn't need to be running nodes on each other's networks. But you know, these enterprise blockchains are just really slow to get adoption. It's like proof of concept after proof of concept.And, you know, I do still personally believe that enterprise blockchain will have a place in the future of this industry, but, um, you know, for obvious reasons, just like a large regulated enterprise is going to be slower to. Um, you know, brand new technology then startups and, uh, you know, other folks in the public blockchain space.Mm, okay. Yeah. That makes sense. So, for example, like you said, if a bank and an insurance company wanted to communicate with each other, instead of running on the same public blockchain, where that information would be public, they'd be able to keep their information private, but you'd be able to verify that information, right?Yeah. So they could essentially provide proves through the public blockchain without actually sharing data. Gotcha. Gotcha. Very good. Did you have a quick question from quick? Follow-up good question. So I saw you guys are working with Samsung. Do they have their own blockchain and what are you guys doing with them?So, yeah, this, this is more on the icon loop side of things. So like I actually don't work at icon loop and I don't have like, too much communication with them. These days. I'm much more focused on the public blockchain side. So I really can't comment, unfortunately, on the enterprise relationships and like, where are they?Um, so yeah, so, sorry, I can't share more information on that guys, but more of a public blockchain guy. Yeah, no worries. My next question is actually about public blockchain and retail adoption. So how do you guys plan on onboarding new users? I know onboarding's a huge problem in cryptocurrency. A lot of things are really complicated right now.So how are you going to streamline that process and make it easier? Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that question because that's a major focus and kind of a major theme that I heard that I was just having a sorry conference, like, you know, It sounds kind of cliche, but we're still very much early days, uh, in this industry, you know, a lot of people are kind of fighting over the existing cryptocurrency users, but you know, what I'm thinking about mostly is how do we grow the pie and get more people involved in this ecosystem.And that really all comes down to user experience and onboarding just like you asked. Um, so I'm working on this product called, called bridge bridge, paid.money. It's it's a wallet that uses the magic SDK and the bank. Combined with a partner, uh, excess stable coin provider. So, you know, the user experience that we're going for, like we're not quite there yet is, you know, you sign up for bridge, you enter your email and, and w what happens in the background is a wallet is created for you and a private key stored and encrypted server.So only you have access to it, but you don't even really know that you're using the private key, right? You don't even know you're using blockchain to the end user. They entered their email, they got a confirmation link. They clicked it, and they're logged in. But what really happened is we created them a blockchain wallet.And then from there there'll be able to deposit deposit cash. Right. And what that is actually going to be as sensitive as signing up for an account at our trust partner. And then they deposit cash into the trust and the trust, mince them a stable coin and it gets sent to their bridge account. Right? So to the end user, all they've done is they've entered an email and they've deposited cash and the cash arrived in the bridge account.So that's like extremely easy and familiar. To people who were not involved in the cryptocurrency industry, they didn't need to learn about purchasing cryptocurrency or a stable coin or this or that. You know, that's kind of the end goal of bridge to be able to onboard people that way, like directly into apps, like, uh, you know, balanced or OMM.These are like, uh, icons byproducts are really, uh, you know, more broadly, uh, to be able to interact with, uh, the blockchain industry and. I think user experience is extremely important for every type of product in this space. And it really hasn't been a major focus for a lot of products. As you know, people are trying to get a token out and capitalize on a bull market and things like that, you know, it's, it's been more important to be fast rather than to be usable.And, you know, I'm more focused on trying to grow that pie and, you know, have a good strategy to, to onboard people like, like my parents, you know, So even on the bridge, like using BTP, uh, moving assets between networks that needs to be really seamless and it's to be direct integration into apps and all that like good API documentation for developers for like directly integration and, and, you know, good, good wallet, a user experience like bridge and all around, like, uh, you know, simple to use and understand interfaces.So you say you, uh, putting your email and then it sends you a confirmation link. You don't have like a password or anything. Nope. Nope. It's the magic. It's a passwordless authentication. And uh, because in the end, like to get into your email, you had to have a password. Right? So, um, the idea of that type of, uh, login service, how did they like use their public key?Maybe even if they don't know it, how does the app retrieve it? Like don't you have to have a private key to decrypt. The information, sorry. I'm not a hundred percent sure how magic works because it is a third-party service in the end, but I'm pretty sure what, the way it works is like they have all of the private keys stored in an encrypted server.And, um, when you click the confirmation link, that poles, uh, there, they know to send your specific, private key from their server to your local. And then it's stored and decrypted on your local device to be able to use, to be signed transact, to, to sign transactions. That's my understanding magic. I'm not on the magic team there.They're great guys. I'm sure they could give a much better, more in depth explanation. That's a pretty good way to explain it through APIs and all that kind of stuff, but it's pretty easy. It's pretty straightforward. Private games. Yeah. I'm going on another high level question. Um, can you tell us what an economist and a public representative is and why they're important to the icon ecosystem?Yeah, sure. I can break that down pretty easily. I mean, like we have this, uh, like back in 2019, uh, me and a couple of guys that icon wrote this. Just a black post or whatever, like a opinion piece on, on. And blockchain, sorry, blockchain and cryptocurrencies being considered like digital nations that we're building like financial infrastructure, rebuilding political infrastructure, there's governance and there's citizens, right?Like all the cryptocurrency holders. And there really is a lot of overlap. I mean, you see some people are more excited and patriotic about the coins they hold versus the country that they live in. You know, it can get like pretty intense. Right. And, uh, I definitely still believe in that vision and, and definitely see that happening.So we kind of. That direction with the naming conventions within our ecosystem. And I mean, the fact that you have to ask that question does kind of make me wish that we just went with more traditional names. I mean, a P rep is a block producer validator. It's a minor, whatever you want to call it. Right.And an economist is just a, an ICU. And that's kind of like the naming convention we went with and, you know, it does confuse some people from the outside looking in, but I do think there is some value in it, like within our ecosystem where people feel and identify more with it for that reason. Yep. I actually do like those names.I think that they're more obvious than like Staker and delegator or Validately to someone who's not in blockchain already. Right? Yeah. True. Exactly. And they're the exact same as those words. I mean, it doesn't, it doesn't affect the, the roles they play and the public representative. It does have a little bit more of a focus on the governance side, which is important for the longevity of a blockchain network.You know, you don't want it to stagnate and want those who are producing blocks and incentivize that you want them to want to grow the network and contribute to the core code and, you know, vote on changes and things like that. So it does give us. Uh, connotation that there's more to it, you know, uh, you know, mining.Mm, definitely. And moving onto some applications on icons network, I saw that you worked for balanced out. I saw you worked for launching balanced out rather. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what that balanced out is and how it compares to say like, you know, swapper Ave? Because it looks kind of like it's maybe those two applications combined into one.Right. Yeah. So, so balanced is essentially a platform to get leverage against your cryptocurrency. Um, right now it only supports ICX. Uh, but we do plan on adding many more collateral types. Once a BTP is live and, uh, you know, if someone's BTP is live and we have other assets within the icon ecosystem, we want to add more collateral types.The balance does it allows you to deposit ICX and mint a BN USD against it, which is like very similar to die, but backed by ICX. And we do want to add, like I said, multiple collateral types. And from there, we want it to give people the opportunity to directly like, use that leverage. They got to purchase something.Right. So, uh, that's why we also created like a unit swap silent. The balance is actually very similar to a maker down plus unit swap on the icon network with a, you know, a beautiful user interface. Sweet. So is that Dex operational yet? Or do we have to wait until more tokens are added to ecosystem? Yeah.No, it's it's operational. So right now, uh, we have balanced tokens listed, um, ICX balanced hours. USB-C we have the, uh, our stable coin partner through bridge. Uh, it's called USDS, uh, stabilize the company. And, um, so we have their stable coin trading and OMM slogans, which is kind of like the Ave equivalent within the icon.Um, so it's mostly, it's like all icon ecosystem right now for the most part, except for a USB-C, which is bridged over, um, from material. But besides that, it's kind of isolated to the icon ecosystem, but I am excited for the growth once we have BTP and other assets added as collateral, just kind of still in the development phase there kind of take, so those tokens you mentioned, are they only available on that deck?Some of those smaller tokens within the ecosystem? Or can you get them other. They are only available on that Dex. Yeah. Okay. That's cool. Okay. Um, are there other icon apps that you're particularly excited about? And can you tell me more about maybe icon bat or project Nebula? I saw those too. Um, they seem particularly interesting to me.I saw, I saw they have to do with NFTs and blockchain gaming. Um, so either of those two or if you're a particularly excited about any other blockchain protocol, um, that's coming out on. Yeah, I think I could give kind of a high level rundown. I will start with those two that you just mentioned. So combat is like a on chain fully, uh, like transparent provably fair.Um, you know, they have casino games and I believe they're adding like sports betting as well and some other, uh, types of games, but, um, they've had a really strong, uh, community for a long time and they're, I believe they were the first application to launch on the icon network to kind of prove and show what the technology.Um, and I think it really helped in, you know, building that community aspect on the icon network and, and they are still continuing to build and introduce new games. Um, so I definitely have, uh, been, been, uh, really interested in using icon requests. And then, uh, the other one is project Nebula is also really fun.Um, it's like a space exploration game that uses NFTs. And you know, I'm not sure about you guys. Uh, I assume I see like an ape on, uh, on your back and Ryan, like I personally. Listen, I have nothing against NFTs. I just like, can't really get excited about them, the cage. And I see that there will be value and people are definitely going to get, there will be something to it.It's just like, you know, not something that I'm personally into, but a project Nebula. Like I do like the idea and FTEs in games, right? Like they have planets and spaceships that have tangible value, like in the game. So people, if the game does become really popular and adds a ton more features about like what planets can do.And what, uh, ships can do then, you know, I see kind of the tangible value there. So I'm pretty excited about a project Nebula and their growth, um, and what they can do, um, you know, on the gaming side. Um, you know, and then, and then more broadly icon is putting together, like all of the foundational components of a ecosystem, right?Like sticking with a digital nations, um, metaphor. We need kind of all of these different services and these building blocks in place just to have like a functioning financial system within, uh, the Icahn ecosystem that we can then branch out to like international finance using PTP. So we have like a curve equivalent that's launching soon.It's called equality dot. There's a year.finance equivalent, like a yield aggregator, which is, you know, for people who don't want to think too hard about earning extra yield deposit there. You know, I, I see that as an important service as well. It's called optimist.finance, and then currently live, we have balanced life network and omm.finance and omm.finance provides that money market, you know, similar to the compound and obey.And then balanced as we were talking about earlier is like a, that leverage that leverage. Uh, like maker Dao and, and, and a trading platform like you as well. Awesome. Uh, so Scott, we talked to punk from the cosmos team a couple of months ago, and he told us that he doesn't see other blockchain interoperability projects as competition.Uh, but that they're all working together. Do you share that view? I do. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I mean, I live outside of New York city. There's like multiple ways to get into New York from New Jersey. Sometimes one has more traffic, sometimes one has bigger tolls, you know, sometimes we'd go to different places and it makes sense to use different bridges.I mean, I definitely see room for multiple interoperability solutions that the more, the longer I'm in this industry, it's been like over three years now, the more I believe we're going to have a robust multi chain feature. I don't think it's going to be two or three blockchains. I don't think it's going to be.I'm thinking 50, a hundred, even a thousand. When you look at the fact that like Axiom infinity is, is building their own blockchain, right? Like NBA, top shots has built their own blockchains. You know, like there's going to be a lot of applications, specific blockchains who have different needs in terms of different bridges.There might be more direct or less direct ways to get to where you need to go. And I absolutely see there being multiple, uh, interoperability protocols and, and, and then ways to streamline that. Right. Cause you don't want like a, let's just use a very simple example. Like, let's say you were on the Eikon network and you had IDC from the cosmos ecosystem.And then you had BCCE from using TCP bridge. They would be different tokens, digital nation. If you will, you can kind of have this like a currency, I think like curve or equality on icon to fill this role where you essentially wrap these tokens. And then there's like one version of each that's used in all.But you can, uh, you know, swap for it for free, but like all these other versions of eats, as long as they are, uh, uh, you know, um, approved, if you will buy it by whatever product is doing that. Um, I absolutely think there's going to be many bridging solutions and many different. If I can just jump in here again, Logan.So you mentioned there might be like a hundred or a thousand different blockchains running parallel to each other, say in 10 years from now, do you think there's any benefit of having a public blockchain that's not interoperable? Or do you think that in the future, all public blockchains will have some type of interoperability with the.Um, that's a tough question. Like I have seen like, kind of just from my work, like doing business development for, uh, for, uh, BTP, like speaking to different networks with different ideologies. Um, you know, like you could think of like a. You know, the certain countries in the real world today that really don't like doing international trade and are completely siloed off.I mean, they're, they do have their own benefits, I would assume, but, you know, um, I, I very much am a believer in like, uh, you know, open, you know, trade and finance between different continents in the real world and also, uh, also in the blockchain space. So I do think there could be some blockchains that ended up going that direction based on their communities, right?Like if that's what the community. They want it to be siloed. They want to only use their own assets and things like that. I could see that happening and being relatively successful as well. That's a good question. Right? I hadn't thought of that before. So Scott, I really liked your metaphor about the different bridges.Uh, some will be more busy on different days. And so there's a need for multiple, I, I totally agree with that. Um, I'm curious to hear, um, you talked about the importance of user experience and the future of blockchain interoperability and having all these different versions of wrap tokens, uh, can kind of become messy, uh, especially for users who don't really understand what's going on behind the scenes.So. Uh, I, I agree like, like what you said, there'll be a pools where you'll be able to get the one version for the chain that you're currently on. Um, but I I'm, I'm guessing, or I guess I'm saying what type of UX experience or improvements, uh, do you see coming in that sector of the. Yeah. So I lightly touched on that earlier when it comes down to API documentation.So I think what's really important is to not like, so I con we'll have this, there's like kind of this bridge portal, not sure if you use them, there's like plenty that are available through existing linking products that you go to this website specifically just to bridge and asset source, blockchain, destination blockchain, and the type of.You send it and you wait for confirmation and your heart is racing. Is it going to get there and blah, blah, blah bridge experience right now? Right. And like, I think, uh, you know, I think we need to skip that step. Um, I think like a product like balance, if we're offering people, the ability to trade Ethereum to ICX, we need to have the user interface and backend of the product.Take care of bridging the Ethereum over to icon. Maybe it'll certainly take a little longer than if it was already on icon. But through proper API documentation for BTP and good example, use cases are used. There's no reason to use, or shouldn't be able to click like a, you know, one or two clicks and then have their Ethereum bridged over to icon through BTP and then, and then swapped for ICX on the balance decks.I don't see why that is impossible. It's certainly a. We'll be difficult from a D implementation standpoint, very complex project to handle there, but it's certainly within the realm of. Yeah. Yeah. The thing that's sticking in my mind is that, um, we talked to a tax expert who knows a lot about crypto as well, like, um, pretty recently.And that would be considered like a taxable event, any type of swap or even a bridge. Money leaving your wallet. Definitely argue against, I mean, I'm no accountant, not a lawyer. No, I don't think it's, I don't think it makes sense by any means. Like they, they would say something from USBC to USD T is a taxable event.It's like, yeah, actually it's like changing dollars out at the store. Like, I don't know if you would, but like say you have a $2 bill and you want it to, or like a $20 bill and you wanted 20 ones, exact same thing. You're not reading. It doesn't mean. Yeah, the way they're doing it now, it definitely doesn't make sense.So it'll be interesting to see if they can figure it out. I mean, Gary Gensler taught at MIT course on blockchain. So you think he would know, but I guess not.So Scott, where do you see icon looking? Maybe 10 years down the road. What do you see as icons and nature? It's like main draws to users. Yeah, I definitely think, you know, I w I would like to see icon focus on the bridging technology and be kind of one of the go-to solutions. That's integrated into applications across countless different black points.Right? Like I spoke about how balanced could abstract away the breads and process through proper API documentation and integration. Um, and I would like to see, you know, as many apps as possible doing that. So kind of the, the, the road for icon is to build the bridges, uh, to these different digital nations and then work with like the, uh, the leaders of these digital nations and, and get introductions to their businesses that are built there to integrate directly into the business and show them how to give like the best user experience possible.So he could prove and show how important that is within the icon ecosystem with our kind of handful of flagship. These are almost like good examples. If you will to show others what can be done and then get that bridge and get that technology integrated into, into many different apps for seamless communication between, uh, DFI apps, for example.Very cool. So would you say that UX is the biggest hurdle left to get there? Oh, 100%. A hundred percent. I think that's where the competition is really gonna hit. Um, you know, I I'm, you know, like definitely within the space right now, like these incentive programs are exciting and it draws attention to you within the cryptocurrency space.But, you know, walk down the street, the new York's like anywhere and ask like, oh, did you guys hear about like the avalanche 180 million incentive program? Do you use their apps? Like, Nope. That's not drawing in new users. That's fighting over the same pool of existing. So that's going to be important, but the bigger battle and bigger, bigger hurdle is getting is gets growing the pie for everybody.And that's what we're focused on. Very cool. And I like that point about airdrops. I mean, there really are just fighting over everyone involved in the ecosystem. They're not really expanding the pie, like you said. Exactly, exactly. And I mean, they're definitely important. Like, I don't think, like I'm not going to like scoff at those programs and they definitely, you know, helped bring notoriety and publicity to your chain within this ecosystem.But we do need to think bigger as an industry. Yeah. Very cool. Is there some sort of mainstream integration you see being like really key? Maybe it's like Robin hood and in crypto wallets or something completely different. Yeah, no, I think that's important. And I don't know if it's going to be, I could see whether it's Robin hood and getting their users to onboard, like into defy or could be just like a new startup that, uh, that rat, that arises with like a really great user experience that does, uh, you know, get some market share with higher yields, um, like higher yield accounts for less insurance, which could be interesting to a lot of people these days.So I could see it going both ways. And why not both really. I could see like Robin hood or other major apps integrating directly. Major defy protocols with some disclaimers, but I could also see some startups arising that, that, that shows some competition. Definitely. So, Scott, let me ask you a little bit back to the technical side.How are the blocks processed on icon? Uh, yeah, so I con is just a traditional PBX. Um, you know, DPOs networks. So there's currently 22 validator nodes. There's going to be one leader. Uh, every two seconds that leader is going to propose a block and then the other deaf validators vote on it that all occurs in around two seconds.So we have two second finale on icon, um, and, and that's kind of how it works right now. We're migrating to a new core software icon, 2.0, it's happening very soon. Um, We're adding three more Brock block producer slots where it's more from 22 to 2025. With those three additional slots are filled with, um, randomly selected, uh, Val bench validators, if you will.So there's a hundred total validators that are eligible. The top 22 will always produce blocks. And then, um, of the other 78, there'll be picked at random to fill those other three slots. Um, and then that rotation happens in one. Hmm, that's pretty cool. Two second block times. Uh, how big are these blocks and how do you manage storage?Um, I'm not sure the actual block size that would require a little more conversation with the core development team. Um, yeah. And store storage. There's no, nothing fancy in terms of storage. Um, something that I've talked to. Uh, the icon team about that I believe is implemented on Ethereum that I'd like to see the core team implement at some point.Certainly no major rush is adding incentives to remove storage from the blockchain. I think it's really interesting. You can actually save gas costs like a transaction, uh, like, you know, as you're going through a transaction, it's racking up gas costs and then. If you have within that transaction, something that removes data from the blockchain database, it kind of adds like, uh, as a negative value to your gas costs.So it lowers your total gas costs for that transaction. I'd like to see that added to icon. It's just like a kind of an idea, but, but right now it's pretty straightforward. Just, uh, you know, whatever data people want to store on it, they're going to pay a certain amount and it's gonna. Yeah, that's interesting.I've never heard of removing old blockchain data. Wouldn't that change like the previous block data and the therefore the hashes and everything. It's not quite like that. Like the way you're thinking of like changing previous blocks, it's more like changing the necessary storage for the current. So like within each smart contract there's databases, right.And you can add or remove data from that database. And that'll be like the current state of the blockchain. So, you know, for most blockchains right now, there's no incentive to ever remove data from your smart contract is going to keep growing and growing and growing. You may want to save down like the history of ever every trade that ever happened on your decks.Right. The only penalty for that currently is like a one-time guest fee. Every time you save that transaction. But then, uh, that history take that cloth, you know, adds bloat to the blockchain node and the node operators need to keep increasing their storage. So there is like some longterm kind of net negative effects of that you get really bloated.So he wants some incentive for developers to like add to their transactions, like add, uh, methods that. You know, remove data from a dataset, not necessarily key data, but just a small, like some metadata that isn't really pertinent to after the transaction. It's only pertinent to making transaction right then.Right. Like historical data is like a primary, like right now, you're not going to see people saving, like every, you know, some people may save every single trade that ever happened or like, you know, the balances of, uh, LP tokens, like snapshot at every single day for the, for the, you know, for the rest of history.Right? Like you don't need to see. You can start removing that history and that should save you. Get that, that would, you know, what I was talking about that would save you money on the transaction to start removing a data from the database. Gotcha. Very cool. So I know you've talked a lot about, uh, some stuff in the future, but if you could outline maybe the roadmap, uh, from now to the, maybe the next year what's going on with icon.So yeah, I'd say. Like short-term were going to be migrating to icon 2.0, uh, has like Jeff Java, virtual machine, um, you know, the smart contracts. Uh, there's a lot of features for, um, developers that are gonna enable more Dow functionality, which I'm really excited about as someone who's building an app in the ecosystem.Um, and also like the most important thing enabled ETP. So I think like, uh, from short term, we're looking at, you know, more apps launching getting that define infrastructure by the end of the year. Along with a BTP, starting to pick up some, pick up the pace and get more assets within the icon ecosystem and get icon based assets added in other ecosystems.So I'd say that's kind of like the short term and then like more next year I'm looking at. Making like optimizing BTP, ironing out, any kinks that we noticed, like the transaction fees, right. Um, you know, how many relays do we need? Like, what are the cost of the relays? Like really optimizing BTP and making it and getting more integrations.I see that being a major focus, right. Awesome. Scott, thanks so much for your time today, coming on and sharing all this awesome info with us left to have you back on in the future. We have, uh, icon's website and their Twitter, as well as, uh, your Twitter Scott linked in the bio below. So if you guys want to find out more information about this project, go right down there.Um, but Scott, I just want to give you, uh, one last opportunity. If you have any shout outs you want to make or any other, uh, ideas you got on your mind, uh, the floor is. Yeah. I mean, I would definitely just say, like right now it'd be, I definitely recommend checking out, you know, icons live apps O and m.finance balance.network, uh, icon bag, project Nebula.There's a lot that craft.network, if you're really into NFTs, um, you know, there's a lot of great stuff going on in our ecosystem. So, uh, you know, follow me on Twitter and, and you'll, and you'll be sure to know, uh, all the most recent updates. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks guys. Really, really appreciate coming on the show.Really good questions. Really good quality conversation, and really hope to do it again soon. Yeah, you we'd be happy to have you back. All right. Take these guys.All right. Hope you guys enjoyed that interview. I thought it was pretty good. Uh, we got money mentioned the background. I'm curious to hear, uh, what he thought about it, but Brian, what did you think? Um, I, I liked it. I liked, uh, everything you're saying about icon. There's a lot of stuff that I didn't. It made me think about certain things that I haven't really.Put into thought beforehand after he mentioned it. Like, even though the last conversation we were having about removing old data that is not needed anymore and, um, to, you know, de blow the whole entire blockchain, which is pretty cool. I, you know, there's a lot more that goes into it there because that could be kind of tricky, but I didn't really even think about, you know, utilizing something like that and just how I con does everything.It's, it's very interesting. Ryan you got anything for us? I thought it was really cool. I like how we've had cosmos on and now icon. I mean, there's similar projects, but collaborative. So it's super cool to see them both. I really liked their ecosystem too. And I thought it was cool that we got to hear about balanced style and a few of the other applications on there.And I mean, right now, the only way to access some of those tokens are actually through icon. So it'll be interesting, you know, if this gets really big, you know, who knows where these tokens could end up and a lot of people could have access to them eventually. Yeah, I'm going to have to reach out to the, uh, polka dot guys that we did on that Benzinga crypto festival panel.Uh, and see if we can get them on to complete the, uh, interoperability, trifecta, uh, Kusama or the things whose Sama it is really cool that they both had the same idea. Where they want to work together, even though they're quote unquote competitors in a sense, but they don't view each other as competitors.They view each other as working together to broaden the whole horizon. And I think that in the blockchain community and everything, we touched on a few times, I think that is one of the most important things for sustainability in this space. So I think that is awesome. I mean, nothing but respect for that, we should just have them on to fight who's better, but you know, that's, that's a different conversation.I have a feeling it's not going to happen. No, it won't. They'll just call me an idiot cause I am, and then we'll just move on and be happy because everyone was working together. And that was my true purpose. When. Full circle. Uh, yeah, no, but I think what he said about the growing, the growing pie, uh, is really accurate because right now cryptocurrency has the same amount of users as the internet did in 1997.And, uh, I wasn't around back. But I could imagine the internet was pretty small, uh, in its infancy stages back then. And now it's so much bigger. You can get on it instantly with a piece of metal in your pocket. You don't have to dial up. Uh, and that's basically where we are with blockchain painful too, and cryptocurrencies right now.So, uh, if you're wondering whether or not it's too late to buy crypto, Probably not, they probably will never be. I mean, it, as long as we're older, cause there's going to be newer, this isn't going away. It really isn't. I'm glad that the internet isn't like how it was when I was, you know, seven to 10 years old.But. It's kind of cool. I didn't know that fact that we have as much users now in the blockchain space as when the internet started. And like multiple guests have said blockchain is that is, you know, even better than how the internet was when it first came out. It's pioneering a whole new world for us.So it was an exciting, special tree for you right now. Get ready. Hit it yet. Ready? Get ready. Get ready? Get ready. Sneak peak. Ah, shoot. I share the wrong screen. I still do though. It's a sneak peek of Twitter and Ft profile verification right there. So here's what that's cool. Let's go back a little bit. Uh, so you, uh, you go to change your profile picture, right?And, uh, You pick your wallet. Okay. Um, that's really, really cool.On a little side note, a friend of my Mo uh, someone post sick. So, and I know just asked me if I worked for Bitcoin because they want to talk about some of them. They said, I heard you worked for Bitcoin. Can we talk about it? You know, Bitcoin. That was the Toshi. Yeah. I don't know how old she is or anything, but I'm assuming that she might not know much about crypto, but that was really cute.That was funny. I always forget. What's the CEO of Bitcoin's name again? Uh, Craig, right?Steve flops. Okay. Rick Sanchez. Yeah. John jobs. Steve jobs is a cousin. It's definitely not Lil Uzi vert. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's the CEO, those mixed nuts, uh, very easy to confuse them. Uh, although smart contracts and stuff, he was running a node in that diamond, in his head too.Yeah, we'll have to clip that back into the beginning. Yeah, that's a good one. All right, we're coming up on an hour. So I think we will call it here. Thank you guys all so much for tuning into moon or bus today. If this is your first time on the show, welcome smash. The like if you enjoyed it and make sure to subscribe to the channel.Also, if you're here for crypto hit up the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel, it's a separate channel. First link in the description below. We're going to be doing a giveaway to one of the first thousand subs. So get in early. Uh, that's all I got Brian or Ryan. You guys have anything else for today? Follow Ryan on Twitter.Follow me. All right, guys. Good call. All right. Uh, from Ann Arbor, Michigan, Lil Uzi vert signing off. I was going to come up with another pond. I couldn't go. No, it's done. Been off five seconds.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Replay From Aug 11, 2021PolyNetwork HackMarket UpdateAxie Infinity Co-Founder InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Register for our FREE Healthcare Small-Cap Conference and have a chance to win 1 year of Benzinga Pro! Register for FREE hereEpisode Summary:Crypto CrashEIP-3664Evergrande Debt CrisisSuperBid InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Maxwell GrosseAbout our Guest: Maxwell Grosse (Over 6 years of engineering, program management, risk management and business development experience. Former Boeing Defense, Space, and Security engineer. Over 5 years of cryptocurrency market and blockchain research experience.) wil be on to talk about SuperBid's NFT marketplace and update us on recent developments for SuperBid.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Market UpdateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossCrypto & JPEG Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain & MDAO summoner | MAYC #383 | Meebit #4659https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | MAYC #21468 | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2017 (sorry planet Earth)https://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Register for our FREE Healthcare Small-Cap Conference and have a chance to win 1 year of Benzinga Pro! Register for FREE hereEpisode Summary:Bitcoin Holding the Line Chainlink + Boost Mobile + CardanoBull Market UpdateCrypto TaxationMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyTokens talked about on the show:Bitcoin, Sushi, ADA,COTI, Chiliz,ZilliqaGuests:Ricky Lavina CEO of Taxfyle https://www.taxfyle.com/Resources:IS ETHEREUM A GOOD INVESTMENT?Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. Welcome back to flight 50, aboard the moon or bust rocket. Ship your home for all things, all coins and defy. My name is Logan Ross, and I am piloting today's mission along with defy developer, Brian Moore and Ryan mutant, ape McNamara. How y'all doing. Doing good. Happy mute in Monday.Uh huh. Are you just coming up with this now? Or is this a fake? No, it's a real thing. Oh yeah. What do you do on said mute and what do you do on set Newton Monday and some you and Monday you'd understand if you had them urinate, but if I wasn't a poor, I would get myself a mutant today's episode is brought to you by the numbers.Uh, also before we can get started, I need to, to talk about some safety procedures, uh, on this rocket ship. So I need all who are willing and able seated in any of the rows to please activate their light button into the, on position to let other, uh, space travelers metaverse travelers know that moon or bust is where.At, uh, also got to point out the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel in the description below. If you are here for the crypto content, then you should be there as well. We are going to start streaming exclusively from that channel as soon as it hits 1000 subscriber Rooney's so, uh, go over there and get in early, we'll be doing a giveaway to one of our.1000 subs. When we hit that, mark, I'm thinking an ENS domain would be pretty cool as a giveaway, but I'm open to hear what you guys think, what you guys want as well. What's good. STBC nice to see you again. Uh, okay. So we also have a telegram channel and we got some sick moon or bust merge. See this, this dope eith hat right here.Uh, if you join the telegram, we'll toss you a. 5% off discount code. Can't get that alpha anywhere else on the. All right with that out of the way, make sure to connect with us on Twitter as always come say what's up, our DMS are open. Uh, and also I want to remind you guys that we are going to try to start bringing on some of our best guests, our best viewers.Uh, if you are here often in the comments, then hit us up. If you want to come on and we will make it happen. So let's get into the news for today. So I want to start with the chain link Cardinal. Partnership. This is huge for the blockchain space in general. I think mostly for chain link. We'll see a lot of that value from ADA, uh, flow into chain link and it will connect it to Yves, polka dot all these other dope ecosystems.So it's good to see that Cardona is integrating, uh, with chain link. Uh, I, you know, I have positions in both of these. I think it's good news. For both assets, Ryan, what do you think about this integration? Yeah, it's definitely interesting. I like your point, Logan. I think it is more bullish for chain-link than it is for ADA, because chain-link is going to be multi chain now to a degree, you know, it's, it's diversifying the risk for chain link.Now, if a theory ends up failing in some hypothetical scenario, then chain link can still survive. Unlike most tokens on Ethereum's network. If a theorem were to fail, then mostly these tokens that are on Ethereum. We'll fail with it. But now that chain link is integrating with Kurt donno. It has another avenue to kind of diversify risks.So I agree with you, Logan. This is very bullish for link. I think it's also very bullish for Cartano. It's very important to have an Oracle on a network and there's no one better than chain links. I think this is bullish for, for both ADA and for chain-link dope. Brian, do you have any additional thoughts on this partnership?No, I think it's going to work really, really well for them. I mean, chain-link is integrated into a whole. Uh, set of projects that you wouldn't even under, wouldn't even realize they are. And the amount of like technology and data you can get back from channeling is astounding. So I think it's really exciting.So does this mean that that chain link will be on Kardos network as a Cardinal token? Uh, I guess that would make sense. Yeah. I mean, I would assume they would eventually have that, but really, I think they're just running a node, which they can integrate it into Cardona so you can get data from. Yeah. I mean, I don't think they'll mint, new tokens that are like eight, a formatted.They might move over a bunch of them. And they also might try to switch link over to like a chain link based token or asset, which, uh, would be pretty cool as well. Uh, what's up, Zolty see you out there in the chat doing what. I hope you're doing well. Also, you see, STBC, uh, is down to come on, talk some NFTs with us.Uh, that would be pretty cool. Uh, so let's set that up, brother. Uh, okay. So next up, Ryan, I think you have this piece of news. Yeah, man, you got to pull up open. See you gotta see this diamond hands NFT investor who made $2.8 million on a single NFT in a matter of months now he didn't even have thousands of dollars.He had $100 and he, he made that into $2.8 million on a single Cromey squiggle and Ft. Talking about money. It's about 20,000 times return on his investment. Not person. It's about 2000000% return on his investment. Okay. So I have Z pulled up here. How should I go about finding this? Should I just go to our blocks and look forward in the squiggles?I would, I would go to the squiggles look under recent sales and scroll down until you see a 945 E trade. Then 945 ether equates to about $2.8 million. Just over that off of a $100 investment. That's ridiculous. So this is the second crummy squiggle we've seen sell for over $2 million this week, which I think is incredibly bullish for chromium squiggles.We've seen the floor go from about eight or nine Eve. Now it's up to about 13 and a half Eve. So over 50% alpha on Ethereum alone. I'm excited to see where this project goes. I've been watching it for a while and I think it's only going to be going up right now with these super high sales for these rare chromium.Very cool. Okay. So I have my screen share now live on this screen and this is sorted by recently sold. So, uh, uh, if you could just point out key rainbow boy, that's his name? He's chunky and very rainbow. That was chunky.Uh, recently sword. Hey, the floor price is only what, 1.45 is that what it said? Yeah, but that's for all of our blacks, right? So our blacks has a ton of different collections. You have to filter it by a certain collection to sketch here. She is the chunker herself.So Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about art blocks and about Cromey squiggles? Why this one is so valuable compared to the other ones? Yeah. So crummy, squiggles, I'm pretty sure it was actually the first collection of NFTs on art blocks and art boxes, almost like an art house for NFTs. They curate collections and they have a few different segments.So art blocks curated is kind of like the most coveted NFTs in the art Black's collection. They also have a few other things. Art blacks Playhouse for some experimental art and a few other different things. But chromium squiggles, you see them all over crypto Twitter, lots of high-end NFT investors are getting into these and they're algorithmically generated pieces of art.They're pretty cool. And I mean, some of them will sell for 10 to 15 Eve, but then you go up to these rare different types of traits with these crummy squiggles, and you can get into the millions of dollars now, as we've seen. That's crazy and look at it. It moves. I know. Tell the masses crummy squiggles move.So this guy's zonked here. He, uh, was clearly very early in art blocks. Let's see what else he's got in his collection.Minted that crummy squiggle. And like I said, it was about a hundred dollars on it nine months ago. Wow, man. Why didn't you tell me about that? I thought I did, man. Put any Cromey squiggles that man don't let me down again. Okay. Okay.Interesting. Not really, honestly so far. Not really. Well, I guess he doesn't really have to care about really much for quite a while. He's getting, he does other art, blacks too. I mean, that's what you see. A lot of these blue-chip NFT collectors are collecting art blocks, Ponce and board apes. And we should also talk about cool cats.Uh, well, we're talking NFTs. This became the third project. Hit a ten eighth floor just yesterday. The hype surrounding them is pretty crazy right now.Yeah. I wanted to get one a while ago, but I never pulled the trigger. I saw the potential, but at the same time, it sounds corny. I didn't really like the art, right. I didn't buy it. I didn't like the art. And as with a lot of those early NFTs, we see them increase in value. I think that a pudgy penguins could be next.I think they're sitting around three to 4, 8, 4. I haven't checked lately, but we saw those gains some hype early on, same with cool cats. And now we see them appreciating even more. Now I'm thinking the, the whales is secret society of Wales. That's, that's my, I do own a few of the, a few of those, and I'm hoping that those will be the next ones, a hype.And there've only been three NFT projects to hit the 10 eith for first it was crypto punks, then it was board apes, and now it is cool cat. So it'll be interesting to see what the fourth project to hit that 10 eith four will be. Cause there's more it in it's going to be inevitable that these blue-chip NFT projects will get more and more.So speaking of big money spent on the Ethereum blockchain, uh, this morning, uh, Bitfinex, the exchange made a little oopsie, uh, and while transferring a hundred thousand dollars of tether, they spent, uh, let's see. $23.7 million on gas. So you guys thought you were paying a lot of gas fees? Uh, not, not quite as much as Bitfinex.Not really sure what went wrong here. They must have not set a limit, uh, and some sort of loop, maybe in a smart contract caused it to just burn and burn and burn. So they spent $23 million in fees to make a single hundred thousand dollar, uh, transfer of USD T. Oops, woopsy they probably half of that got burned, at least.So, you know, maybe that affected the theory. I'm just a little bit, it was like a, it was really sad compared to the right. I know my inner mate with a lot of money, then let's say a minor does some sort of rig got paid handsomely. Oh, man. I hope it was mine. I see you have here on the, uh, on the dock, a hundred thousand dollars in tethered, $23 million.It's this the future. Sure France. I, I hope not. Uh, okay. So we have a lot of stuff going on in the fungible token market, a lot of movement. Uh, we saw a weekly close yesterday. The one that we have been talking about for months, uh, but we will get to all of. After the interview. So today we have the CEO of tax file on, uh, with us today to talk about crypto taxes, uh, and how, um, tax file, you know, places itself in the industry.So I'd like to welcome to stream Ricky. Levina. Thank you so much for joining us today. Hey guys, what's up? Not too much. Uh, so before we really dive into it, could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, how you started tax filing? Sure. So I'm a, I'm a CPA. Uh, before I started Taxol, I worked for PricewaterhouseCoopers.Um, and then some, some, some regional firms, but I'm a, I'm a CPA, I'm an accountant. And about, I'm sorry for the voice, uh, about six years ago started Taxol and my two co-founders, um, basically trying to democratize, uh, the supplies. Uh, things, uh, in the accounting industry, meaning I got a license, my CPA, or you could be an IRS enrolled agents.Uh, but basically you have your, your county license and, uh, in the olden days you just had to go to a, to an accounting firm and the pay via W2. Right. Um, but I felt that our licenses were worth something, you know, uh, out in the market and, um, You know what thought it'd be really cool if we create a platform that will route jobs, uh, to them.So, you know, Taxol is a, an app where you guys y'all could download it on, on, on iOS and get your taxes done, uh, directly through it, uh, via a CPA like myself, I'm not on the app, I'm saying I'm a CPA, but, uh, but we also, uh, route work from like institutionals. So if someone's outsourcing their accounting department or a CPA firm is.Tight, uh, with, with, uh, with staff, which is a big trend over the past 12 months. And we think it's only gonna get worse now. Uh, they put all this work on, on the platform. And so, uh, our algorithm prices out all that work on an individual basis, uh, kind of works like match.com, um, based off, you know, there's different types of CPAs, right?So if you specialize, let's say crypto taxes or something like. Uh, you'll get, you'll get matched up with these jobs. You'll see exactly how much you'll make on it. And, and by when you gotta do it by. So, um, that's a little bit about tax volume. Hmm. Awesome. Ricky. So I understand you're interested in crypto as well.Yourself. Could you tell us why our audience of mostly crypto investors might be interested in using tax file? Uh, especially with the latest things going on in DC. No, it seems like crypto they're really hell bent on at least in the federal level to treat crypto as a security. Right. And, um, not all platforms, especially, you know, for, for your type of audience are, are, you know, using Coinbase and, uh, and their wallet, uh, you know, we're, we're using, you know, you know, Swiss products or, you know, uh, uh, Singaporean products and, and, and that could really fall through the loopholes.Right. Uh, cause when you deal with. How crypto is trying to be treated in terms of, uh, from a tax position. Uh, you know, once you exit a position, right? Let's say you're moving from BTC to, to ease that now becomes a realizable event. And we don't really think about it, especially, you know, as, as you guys know, uh, let's say we're, um, you know, we're, we're, um, define, right.And, uh, we're, we're collecting an interest and then. We decided to add some LP. Right? Uh, so, so we, we opened up a pool or we're in a pool or steaks and now, and now we want to, to get some action. You're getting interested in, in another one of the products on the website. Um, you know, you have, you have to track all these things and not all those entities are going to give you a tiny and I like Coinbase, right?So it's not just when you move into. You know, and the government's pretty, at least they're saying they're going to be pretty serious about this. So it really helps to, uh, there's a lot of great apps out there, but it really helps to consult someone. Um, because given that. These platforms are in different countries and different transactions.You mean different things. Are you moving, like you said, into a stable coin or are you, are you moving to something that's more volatile, right? Uh, you really have to be organized in terms of nutting out your gains and losses, and there's a ton of advantages there. So obviously Metta mask doesn't provide those tax documents like Coinbase does, as you said.So what has been kind of the past method for reporting taxes, with defined Mehta mask events, uh, and what do you see as the better alternative that. Well remember, I just, I just supplied the people. So, uh, when you get linked up to one of our crypto pros, uh, they'll have their own software. Right. So similar to like Uber doesn't own the cars for the drivers.Right. But depending on your complexity, our algorithm detects all. Yeah. This is a high-frequency trader or whoever. Right. As opposed to someone who just had one, you know, uh, one position in, on ether or BTC or light coin or something on their app. Right. Um, So, you know, that that's for Taxol could really help out from there.It's, it's really consultative. Right. So, um, you know, you'll get matched up with your pro and you work through, uh, their software. They'll see, first of all, what you got, I think it starts really, um, you know, at home and being proactive on this stuff. So if you're looking to, you know, tax seasons, Not right around the corner.Right. But we're getting closer to the end of the year. Or you may want to start getting organized, you know, ROC might be faced with a crap ton of work, uh, come January and you might have to extend and, and, and then you realize, oh wait, even though I had all these gains and if I'm extension, it's not an extension for payment, the IRS still.Their money by April 15th. Right? So, um, we, we see that snowball for, for individuals, right? And, and the best thing they could do is, is, is work with someone. If you need help in advance to get organized or start getting organized yourself, because no one knows your, your, your crypto position like you. And, um, you know, and, and, and not, not, not even the best CPAs could look into, obviously w where, where you had realized.So tell me about this algorithm you mentioned, is this a proprietary algorithm? Can it look through your meta mask transactions? How does it determine, uh, like the best fit CPA for you? So, um, I'll say it's, it's basically an intake form on our platform platform. It's called work layer that we use to power tax file.And, uh, whether, like I said, it's, it's a crypto account or a 401k.Question by question and start drilling into. Okay, well that didn't have a million transactions or, or was there one and in what, uh, in what platforms? Right? So on our end, it's, it's basically our job to find someone with that level of statistics. Right. And it's not want to say it's and it's the platform is doing and not, we don't have like an individual looking for coming through our 4,000 CPAs.Um, you know, it's, it's someone, uh, that, that has has, you know, Some, some, I'm not going to prop up any tax, uh, crypto tax software, but they leveraged something in their, from that that really helps them out in terms of getting your schedule D uh, which is a schedule on 10 40 that you report, um, you know, all these transactions on and they could really help you, let's say net out your gains and losses.Um, so that you're an optimal position. Okay. That makes sense. So what are some of the strategies you can use to lower your tax liability within crypto Korea? Or are there any, yeah, there definitely is. Uh, but, but it's all proactive, right? So if you have. Whatever happens in 2021. Right. And then you're trying to file your taxes.Um, you're kind of limited, right? Because it is what it is. Uh, and, and, um, I would say that the, most of the best planning that we see cause cause there is no. Okay. So for you guys, uh, I don't know. You're familiar with. Okay. But before used to be like, oh, I'm training a light kind asset for another like-and asset.And because I'm just rolling it forward from asset to asset the IRS, there used to be this gray area where you can say, okay, well that's not really a taxable event because I didn't get any cash from it. I didn't realize it. How am I going to pay taxes on something that I haven't gotten to cash from?Right. Like, you're I have this basis of, you know, on paper to $12 million or whatever it is, but you know, my checking account only got 5,000. So how the hell am I gonna. You know, uh, a huge tax bill on that. Now with this new regulation. Um, it doesn't really matter. They're there, they're going to tax you for, for, for moving from asset class, asset class.So that's why getting practice with this stuff is really important. You know, it may affect when you exit a position, right. Or when you switch from one point to another, if you need to go to. Um, USD, excuse me, or U S era tether or something like that, a stable coin, um, you know, and then eventually converted to, uh, to Fiat, you know, it's a pay your bill, but that's part of the planning, right?So making sure that, you know, if you're going to attend any nine, this is going to be recorded as, as a game. Okay. Uh, I'm going to have this liability. Uh, the other part is. I know, I know everyone gets wrecked every now and then, uh, you know, I, I certainly have, uh, and we've been doing it for quite a while here at Taxol.We've been trading, you know, for, for a few years, but, um, it's important to track all that because those losses offset your gains. Right. So, you know, don't, don't just think out of sight, out of mind, you know, onto the next one, you know, this is just a bad break record it, uh, because that would definitely offset, you know, Tax liability.And are you able to write off gas fees as a transaction expense? That's a good point. Um, it depends on how you set it up. Um, so the IRS distinguish really between hobby and, and, and, uh, work, right? So let's say you have enough justification and it's kind of complex on, on determining this. It's more like I'm a lawyer.Uh, you know, th that's making your case, uh, that you're a, you know, that you're doing this as an avid, this is your full-time job, right. As an avid worker, as opposed to just an enthusiast. Right. Um, this isn't something I just do in passing. Right. So, um, what that would trigger on your 10 40? Let's say, if you are active trader is.Uh, which, which essentially means that on your 10 40, you have a schedule C or better yet, if you're incorporated now pros and cons are incorporated, you know, you want to track everything and, you know, and make sure that you're really on top of it all, because now you're incorporated and you're telling it to the world that you're trading crypto under this entity.But the benefit are, yes, gas could be deducted, right? As, as, as cost of doing business, that's on your PNL. That's an expense, right? Obviously your, your. Your revenue on that business is your realized gains. Right. And on your balance sheet, right. Is, is the unrealized portion, right? So my long hole long-term holdings on a, on a position like ether or whatever.Right. Um, so I would say if you qualify, you know, to do this as a legit business and, and the best way to do that. So as a Porter with the IRS, some corporate, even if it's just, you set up. Yeah, right. You know, uh, you know, coined Inc something and, um, I'm sure that's taken, I'm just giving you an example. And through that entity, you know, you, you log all your transactions and, um, if you do enough of it, you, you know, it may pass, uh, the test and want to talk about NFTs just shortly.So our NFTs tax is the same way as other cryptocurrencies. So right now they're not. Um, but it seems like they're gonna move the way of being treated as any other security, you know? So, um, there's a ton of ambiguity. Uh, I think the, the funniest thing is that the people creating these slides, like before you get to NFTs, they, they, I mean, they don't even understand the blockchain, you know, proof of stake.Like you talked to them about purpose. They can have no idea. So it's like, um, they're not even there. Uh, there's, there's a lot of gray area. I think it's, it's where we were in terms of general crypto tax laws, like four years ago. Like, how are you, how do we treat Bitcoin? Uh, so, uh, To be honest, there's just, you have to just take it situation by situation.Right? How big of a profile is this in terms of, uh, you as an individual, uh, maybe working with a CPA, if you have a big, uh, profile here and a lot of the, you know, In my experience, not just in crypto, but just, you know, uh, consulting for clients and, uh, what I've seen, you know, through the tens of thousands of users that we have here, you know, attacks all, um, and maybe even hundreds of thousands of returns at the end schedules that we do every year.Um, Is is, is taking a rational approach to it, right? Like, am I just blowing off millions and millions of dollars? I'm not going to, you know, be reporting here or really, you know, obviously that's illegal. Right. But it's like, okay, well, how big am I into NFTs? And how open, how, you know, you have an opportunity to get up front of it just because it's not tax season.Doesn't mean you can make an essay, made a pain in our two, which, you know, ahead of time, which really. Um, to be in the good gracious of the IRS, right? Because let's say down the road, they make a mistake or you have to open up a case with them or something that happens to everyone, you know, mistakes happen and it happens pretty frequently.Um, and. It probably happened to anyone, you know, by the time, you know, we're dead in the ground here, uh, you know, over the next 30, 50, hopefully 60 years. But, um, when that does happen, you want to make sure you have a clean record. Right. And that all that stuff that you're open and you're upfront with stuff, and you worked well with them and you got ahead of the payments.So my follow-up question to that was can you claim losses for an NFT, say by selling it before the end of the year, if it loses value and then buying it back, I think you kind of already answered it. It's just not regulated enough, but, uh, do you have an answer for. I honestly, I don't, I don't. And, and, and here's the thing, they're not going to see it as an NFT.They're going to see it as some type of acid, right. Whether it's security or another type of asset. Right. So that's why I said it depends case by case, you know, uh, your 10 40 is your, year's like a storybook. It's a, it's a chapter in your book, right. For the IRS, um, for that year. And, uh, depending on how all the narratives kind of string together depends on whether you're in a stronger weaker.Interesting. So, um, you said that they're trying to classify NFTs as securities also. Um, what would be their motivation behind this? Maybe just collect more tax money, like I'm guessing fine art isn't, isn't considered a security and it's taxed differently, right? Uh, so why wouldn't they apply the same rules there?Like I said, I just don't think, I just think that people that, that are, have running these laws and in, in this infrastructure infrastructure, bill just weren't focused on NFTs, like, or an expertise, right. They got, you know, their, their lobbyists from whatever institution, you know, it's definitely not from Coinbase or from someone that knows what's kind of what's going on.Although they're having more presence, you know, in the industry, uh, whether it's a good thing or a bad thing. Uh, but. Um, it's probably someone from B of a right. Protecting their own interests. So, um, yeah, it's not really called on the new bill. Um, they want to classify th they throw this all blockchain stuff as they want to treat all blockchain.Okay. As a security it's wild. I know. And I know that it could be true, you know, depending on what we're doing on blockchain.You know, comparing apples to oranges, like, like in this case, in this example of NFTs. Right? So, um, that's, that's, that's where we're at right now. Uh, yeah, I think that, that if there would be a Silicon valley of cryptocurrency, the us is doing everything they can to push it outside of its borders. Uh, I think this is probably going to be detrimental.For the, for innovation and crypto innovation, blockchain innovation inside the U S would you agree with that? Ricky? It's weird. I didn't try out for the 20th time band. Right. So I have no idea what's going on. Um, I really don't. It's tough. It's it's like, okay, well, are they just. You know, some people are saying they're trying to sink it so that they could buy low legal again, and then it farms, and then it's illegal for the 20, you know, for the 21st time.Um, you know, so. I don't even think it's like 40 trusting it, to be honest with you guys. I don't think, um, like in terms of, I mean, this bill is in the trillions of dollars, right? Like just the bill itself. Okay. there, there's so much things pushed through this thing that it's not like it's a crypto bill, right?It's it's it, it had his own little card out, you know, with its own, you know, group of lobbyists, uh, on it that had their opinion. They're obviously gonna. And try to get this, uh, uh, this, uh, the section on the bill in their favor. Right. Who, who knows what that is in terms of position, but, um, in terms of the U S trying to push crypto off shore, you know, I don't, I don't think they really care about that, you know, because they just saw China, you know, make it illegal.So then, then when, I mean, Know Chinese, the most populated country. We'll try to do some self a crypto here. Right. You know, they, you, you, you guys all seen it on Twitter. Although the mining equipment being steamrolled by bulldozer and the CCP putting that out there. Right. So. I have no idea. I definitely know that, you know, decentralized decentralization and blockchain, you know, gives, gives power to the people and, and that's, um, that's why it's, it's a really hot topic, you know, and it empowers individuals like us and it's really, but also makes it really exciting.Belly. So back to another question on taxation, are there any types of transactions in crypto that are not taxable events? Say maybe if I put my money into a smart contract, you brought up the example of maybe a liquidity pool earlier. If my money is in a liquidity pool and it's transferring between say Ethan Bitcoin is each one of those traction, a transactions, a taxable event, or is that considered something else?Now? All those high-frequency stuff. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it sucks. I know. Um, yeah, it definitely sucks. So right now, the way that the realized gain is being realized, even though you're not moving to Fiat. Okay. At all, like. You know, it's, it's not like you're getting out your block five card and you're paying for something.Right. Um, it doesn't matter. They're, they're treating that as the exchange of one asset to another, that ties back into my previous point about how they got away from like on exchanges. Right? In the past you could say that's a light kind of change an asset for an asset, but now no, they've been pretty explicit on that.That's, that's a realized transaction. And depending on whether you're taking a loss on those micro transactions or game, all, getting that out at the end, That's interesting, especially for a program like Unisoft because they meant me. I provide liquidity on UNICEF and they made me an NFT. So really I'm holding the non fungible token, which has underlying assets in it.And at any given time it could be chain-link or Ethereum, depending on the ratio between those two. It's constantly trading. So, I mean, to me, it just doesn't seem realistic for the government to ask for me to be like, realize all of these gains when I'm not really even realizing them. I just am holding a non fungible token that represents any given ratio at any time of these two assets.Yeah. Um, I was, it was a Coinbase. I don't know who it was. Um, uh, but a few weeks ago on Twitter, they, you know, they were really going into, uh, the reporting requirement. That the brokers, because they're getting treated like brokers. Right? So, um, so this high frequency, uh, high frequency, but this liquidity pool, who is the third unit swap unit swap, are they based here in the U S uh, Unisoft labs is.Yeah. All right. So they will be responsible for, uh, 10 89. That's going to be a disaster for them. That's why it's almost impossible for them really. And the overhead, the expense to just track all that and to sort that out and send it out in the liability that's associated with it. I think the liability is a real reason why Coinbase was being so vocal about this.Um, because it's, it's nuts. It's crazy. So it's really on them. But the alternate responsibilities on you. So they have their own requirement, you know, that's why they were looped into this latest bill, right. The brokerage requirement and really anything over $10,000 has to, has to be tracked. So it's basically everything in a second.Yeah, exactly. So anything over $10,000, they got. All right. Um, the government's trying to put this, uh, responsibility on them because they think that'll add pressure to you guys, right. Or to us. Right. So then report, because if we know it's being tracked that Coinbase or something, right. Um, what happens is on there on a 10 99, they give you a copy, but.Uh, you know, side of it goes to the IRS, right? So, uh, once that's done, then you're like, oh, well I gotta report this now. Right. So, so that's the whole spirit behind the law. Um, obviously without diving into the practicality of interesting. So the units will have protocol is decentralized with the unit swap labs team operates outside of the U S if I was in their position, I would just like go to The Bahamas or go somewhere outside of the U S boundaries.And then their problem is solved. Uh, well, you know, the IRS are going to say no because technically, yeah, technically they, they need to report this. Right. Cause, uh, um, the certain, uh, knowing your investor, you know, we know this, you know, you know, anytime there was an initial coin offering ICO or whatever, right.You know, you can't accept someone from the U S and you know, some of crazy rules right on, on the brokerage, you know, knowing your investor, uh, type stuff. Um, technically they still have the responsible. Hmm. What about say you're running a trading bot and, um, you know, you're trading almost, you know, just as quickly as a liquidity pool, but you're, you're using a third party software.And then on something that allows it like Coinbase pro or all that stuff. So you're pretty much saying that every single transaction, no matter what you use or how you do it, that's tax just like how a stock is. That's doesn't matter, which it doesn't matter which program now it's, it's, it's all treated like the security and, uh, you, once you exit a position, that's it, that's, that's what the training is a taxable event.It doesn't mean when you come back from, you know, the realm of, of, of crypto into Fiat, it doesn't matter anymore whenever, any exit of any position. And then if let's say you're just doing defy, right? So let's say. I don't know I'm DePaul. I got it. All right. So, uh, probably cat or Becca or something like that.Let's say, let's say, you know, you just staking there and you're earning interest. Right. But that's your only position, right? You came in with Fiat, right. With USD in my case, right. That went to tether and then tether. I used to swap on Q coin for. Yeah, or something like that or for Kai and then kind of tobacco.Okay. Forget about all those micro-transactions leading up, which technically will be taxable events, but there's not really a holding period gain or loss there. Cause I'm just swapping one for one. Uh, once I move into backline and I start earning interest on it, that's, that's essentially taxable interests.Right. So my base is. Right. My basis isn't and the, and let's say, you know, usually obviously with defy, you know, the, the value of the coin actually goes down, but let's pretend that the value goes up. Right. And you want to exit that position, right? Well, unless you exit that, that, that Beko coin to something else, like higher or something like that.You're not going to get taxed on, on it's. Cause it's unrealized. Right. But the, but the interest is, so your earnings is cause that's paying now, right? So you have two. Technically report that obviously, you know, I don't know what that goes out of, but I don't think it's the U S um, and they're not gonna issue a Tahlia nine.So, I mean, kind of go look with that or reconciling all that. Yeah. I think a lot of people, a lot of trainers myself and. Pretty much anyone we've talked to you're talking about are going to have kind of a really big eye-opener when it comes to next year's taxes. I mean, last year I did my taxes for crypto and everything, but you're kind of, a lot of people were confused and there wasn't as many rules, but now people are gonna flip, you know, it's just going to be kind of a little overwhelming.So we have people, you know, hire professional to actually look at it and say, That's why we have tax file. That's right. Yeah. It's like, it's, it's a process. You guys, you and your listeners should have, try to get out of, to be honest with you, um, you know, start planning and think about what happened this past year in terms of just start with what projects were you in, right.And how. That could be perceived by these guys. All right. By the IRS, you know, so it wasn't earning interest. Was I, you know, what was I doing? What was it? Was it just simply trading, you know, on Q coin or something. Right. Um, and then think about all the transactions you made. That's why you hold there. Um, think about all the transactions you made and then, um, Yeah, don't take your gains and losses and then start working with someone, um, to see, okay, well, we should really should start paying on this, right?Because even if you have an exit, a position, but you're earning interest on something, you still have to make probably quarterly payments on it. Right. Like I said, just when you, cause you extend your tax, your tax form, your filing deadline, right. The IRS is always going to want their money. Right. So, so when you, oh, All right.Uh, they want you to start paying and at the end of the year, right, the fiscal year is over for them. Right. You're going to have a balance due, right. So you have to start planning as to how you're going to pay that. Obviously, then they're not going to take crypto Fiat, but take USD. Right? So you have to probably think about what you want to exit to be liquid enough to don't have to pay that bill, if you're lucky enough to do.You know, obviously on the, on the right side of that, on that ledger, you could obviously have a loss and then that's great. That'll go against your regular earnings. Your, if you have another job or something never been wanting a loss more than right now. Uh, so Ricky, I'm sure we'll be in touch. Uh, I'm sure you have, you have experts.I'm assuming for all these defy NFT crypto tax. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely do. So if you just go to tax law.com sign up. All right. Cool. Thank you. Um, and, and you'll get connected. You just answer some simple questions and then you can start consulting with a CPA and they can help be your therapist to the whole process, right?For no extra charge. All right, guys. Uh, this was Ricky. Levina the CEO and co-founder of tax file. If you guys are deep into. Maybe a little bit too deep, like I'm realizing I am right now. Uh, make sure to check out tax file link in the description below. They can get you hooked up with an expert so you can get on top of your taxes this year.Ricky, thank you for joining us. Exactly. All righty. Hope you guys enjoyed that interview. If you're just tuning in. Now we did a little bit of news earlier and we are about to do our market update and moon or bust at the same time. So, uh, we're gonna start off with a couple of cryptos that we picked out, uh, and then we will pass it to you, drop your coins and your NFT projects that you're looking at in the chat.Uh, and we'll pull them up, do a little market update for you. Uh, let's get it started with some BTC and some, a theory on the classics. Give me a second to pull up trading view. Ryan, is there anything else you've been looking at this week that you might want to take a peak into? Um, I wouldn't mind looking at sushi swap since I have been buying some of that up over the past week, but definitely Bitcoin, since everything follows Bitcoin and Ethereum would be good too.And we also saw a unit swap plus 25% yesterday. Uh, so we'll have to check that one out as well. Please work, Mr. Trading view.Okay. So here we have Bitcoin USD pair, uh, through the BitMEX exchange. Uh, and what we saw, uh, is a weekly close right around this bull market support ban that we've been talking about for months now. So. Watching last week, uh, we said the most bullish scenario would be to, uh, close the weekly candle right around this line.And. Sunday, as we went into the close, we saw a huge rally right to the line we've been talking about. So a little bit, uh, called it there. Uh, and we see this second, this new weekly candle forming, uh, it had a wick up, but now it is a little bit in the red, slight pullback this afternoon. Um, but I don't think we are in dangerous territory yet by any means.I think this is still very, very, very bullish and I am prepared. For takeoff. Brian, what do you think? Yeah, I think that we pretty much called it and it kind of followed the exact supporting technicals. We laid out because you know, Bitcoin's not going anywhere. It's here to stay and people realize that, and I don't think it fell below 40,000.Yeah, there's a wig just barely, but just a little bit below the bulls are definitely winning right now. At least it's seems we've tried to go down and break that $40,000 mark. And it seems like we are holding the line. Like Logan said, these next couple of weeks are definitely going to be definitive though for Bitcoin and its price going through the rest of quarter four in this year, I'm starting to get FOMO already.Seeing us holding the slide now four weeks in a row. I think that's pretty strong support. And I mean, I'm scared that I'm going to be stuck in some Fiat currency and I'll have to be buying during the pump. But I mean, we have a couple more weeks. I think we'll see where it goes and I'll, I'll certainly be dollar cost averaging my position specifically into sushi for the upcoming week or a couple of weeks.Maybe you should save some of that for your taxes, Ryan? No, I don't have any profits. Don't worry about it. Yeah. I've lost enough. You hear that? STC or IRS? Uh, okay, so let's pull up sushi since you've been talking about it so much, uh, I believe your thesis is show you, is that correct? Show you is definitely a big part of it specifically because they are paying very large dividends to sushi holders with show you NFT.It's going to be 2.5% of the transaction feeds on the platform. Right now they pay dividends. They pay 0.05% of the transactions fees on the decentralized exchange. But I just, I really like my thesis is basically, I really like how they're adding value to the sushi token. They're finding different ways to diversify it, to pay dividends out to the sushi token holders.And I also like how it's being actively developed and they're making new programs that really don't have anything to do with the decentralized exchange or making NFT marketplace. They have a token launch pad and they have a lot of other features. I think that'll do them very well over the one. Nice. So do you have a target price for sushi in the next couple weeks?Not in the next couple of weeks, I've been trying to buy, whenever it dips down to around nine to $10, I'm trying to get an under that $10 is my average cost, because I think this could be a 10 X over the market cycle right now. There's about a $1.2 billion valuation. So 10 X would bring you up to 12 billion, which, yeah, that's a lot of money, but a lot of other crypto projects already have that.I think fast probably. More than $12 billion in market cap. And I could see sushi overtaking eventually, uh, which isn't good for my bags, but it hopefully will be eventually once I, once I stack up the sushi. So you say, you think you can, uh, see sushi taking over a unit swap. Uh, it's hard. It's really hard to say.I think there is potential for it because of all these different avenues that are being developed to earn dividends for sushi is tokens as well as all the different programs being built on sushi. But it's hard to say because I mean, you know, swap was out first and at the end of the day, sushi swapped did fork from union swap.So. Some stigma there. Uh, and you know, the swap will definitely be going up with the markets. And if sushi, 10 X is then, I mean, you know, the swaps probably going to be going up quite a bit to probably not 10 X in, just because there's so much more capital that would have to be involved for, you know, swap to 10 X, then it would be for sushi because, you know, swap has such a higher market capitalization.We might have one inch and offshoots like that kind of happened to yep. I have some one inch and I'm expecting that to do pretty well with the general markets. It's a Dex aggregator. So, I mean, it works alongside a lot of these other programs. Yeah. So yesterday we saw a uni rip from 17 books at the bottom to about $25 at the top.I'm sure a lot of traders had a good day and just as many had an equally bad day. Uh, it's pulled back a little bit since then. Um, but it still looks like a breakout, in my opinion. I mean, you can kind of see this line here. Maybe not a breakout may be more of a fake-out, but we'll have to see the next two days next, next couple of days, uh, will be very telling, as Ryan said.Uh, so Brian, you have anything you want me to pull up or should we go to this plethora of coins we have in the chat? Yeah, just pull up ADA for a second. Alrighty. So ADA also announced during their, um, Their car Dano summit 2021 summit that they are not only integrating with chain link, but also being the strategic partner for dish network who owned also has a subsidiary boost mobile.So they are going during in talks where, um, I H okay. Uh, media, which is the company that brought us Cartano is I'm going to be helping them build things such as. The proof of coverage for cell phones or dish network, um, having your identity on the blockchain and having, um, uh, referral programs through Cardona.So there's a lot of stuff going on there. I mean that overnight we'll bring, once that's implemented, we'll bring over nine to 10 million views. Over to the condo, blockchain over just like that. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of bullish movements here, even though they've been slow to run things out.There's a lot of people that trust them. And, you know, we think that Charles Hoskins cause hearts, you know, should I say it kind of doubles it hot, hard skin sins is going to, um, actually make things happen. I mean, I I'm very, it makes me even way more bullish. ADA and Cardona in general than I have ever been.And I've always liked it. So I'm pretty pumped about it too. This is smart contracts yet kind of, kind of. So what's a smart contract. You who needs them, apparently you don't apparently. Uh, okay. So speaking of Cardinal partnerships also chain link. We talked about this a little bit earlier. They are integrating with the car Dano network for Oracles into the real world.Uh, this is going to be very bullish, uh, for chain link. And Cartano both. We see, uh, we saw some, some crazy price action. I think this might have. I actually know it was just released recently. So these are the weekly candles. It could not have been that one. Um, but yeah, I guess we're still looking for that breakout on this.Uh, trading pay right here. There's gonna be a lot of stuff. That's going to integrate chain link into their technology and a lot of stuff that isn't even blockchain related to do. So, I mean, the weather service, the company that backed us, the weather channel weather, you know, they've integrated. So, I mean, there's a man there's only good news for a lot of these things to move in the future.All right. What's up Jim Cruz. Uh, we got Coty here for you. Uh, this is a smart contract blockchain. I think it's an Ethereum competitor. Uh, and you can program smart contracts in any language, uh, on this chain. I think that's its selling feature. It's been a while since I really dove into this project, but we see it here in full on price discovery mode.It has broken through, uh, that the. Actually, it looks like March was there all time high. Uh, and so we're going to look for this continued movement. I'm assuming, what do you guys think about this chart? I don't know much about it. Is it like a car TZ car Tessie, C R T S I, where you can write smart contracts in any language as well.Maybe that's what I was thinking of. Yeah. Maybe I think Cody is a different project. Maybe we can pull it up on coin market cap really quickly just to do a quick fundamental on the platform. Yeah. I just brought it up. We should definitely go into it because I, yeah, you're thinking of car Tessy but this is a little bit different.I personally. Yeah. Currency of the internet. That sounds right. Cody. I personally never buy into all time highs when I see this, which I mean, that's just my personal trading preference. I feel like there's a little bit too much risk to get in once we're breaking new, all time highs. But that being said, once you're in price, discovery, sentiment changes really fast and you could see huge gains still.We saw that with Solano and we saw that with a lot of other cryptocurrencies, even just Bitcoin. You see that when we go up to new all-time high. You never see it just go up another 5% from the all time high that's when the mania starts and that's when you can really make big gains. But personally, I try to enter positions when there's fear in the market and not when there's FOMO, I find that works better and it's generally less than.No, this is actually a pretty cool project. If you scroll down and see where they said, uh, what makes it unique is it allows you to, uh, create your own coins that are stable in price and take control of your finances and your data. And so you can pretty much turn this into really, however you would like it.If you need a stable coin, if you want to make sure that you're creating something that gives you the best, you know, just control of everything that you do. That's pretty neat. I don't know what the new regulations for everything is going to happen with it or what, how that affected. But I haven't seen something like this.Very cool. Uh, if you're just tuning in this is moon or bust your home for all things, all coins and defy right now, we're going over your token picks in the chat. So drop them down there. Uh, and well, your down there, make sure to drop us a like, if you are enjoying the content. Uh, okay. So next up we got chilled.Uh, Jim Cruz again with another nice recommendation for us. So Chili's is like a sports, uh, integration network. So they have partnerships with a bunch of the huge soccer clubs over, across the pond. And now they are expanding into the U S they could see a boom in activity and price, and these, uh, you know, brand name recognition, uh, with all these U S partnerships.This could be very bullish. Uh, zoom out a little bit. They are still a ways down from their all time high. Uh, so this might be a good one to get into. If you're not already, it looks like they had a little bit of a attempted breakout and shot back down on that China food. Uh, but do you guys know anything about this coin?You want to add anything? I know it's a platform and teams can make their own fan tokens, which is an interesting concept. We don't really see it implemented in blockchain too much. I think chili is really has the market for this right now. And they have the biggest partnerships. So, I mean, in that sense with the fundamentals, I think it's a good investment.I think the technicals look good too right now. Uh, it's down, I mean, 60% or so from all time highs. And if the market continues to go. Through quarter four, I could see chilies, uh, outperforming a lot of these larger market cap coins. No, they're also big with the, uh, soccer. Teams and fans. So it was more of an international thing than for us and a us thing, but it's pretty big in those areas.So that's, that's a huge, um, influx of users that want, you know, those NFTs or have a token player. I mean, a players token or all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot of room to go with this one. we got crypto maniac in the chat, shout out, Matthew Stafford. He also wants to know about so far. Is this similar or no?So, uh, no, so far as a centralized lending platform where you can give them your coins and other people will borrow them from sofa and you can earn some interest on them through, uh, their, uh, what's it called? Custody wallet, custody program, unless there's a sofa cryptocurrency that we're missing out on.Oh boy. Is there, you never know, by the way, guys, if you're curious to learn more about sofa, uh, check out Benzinga is so Phi review that Ryan and I worked on, uh, you heard of rule number 35. No, I haven't. What's that? It's a, if it exists, there's a cryptocurrency of it.That was a good one. Uh, there is social finance, but this is definitely not 6,000. Yeah. With the real. So Phi, so C, Z Quilla. I can't say some of these Soliqua maybe. Well, I'd had, I don't know. I was trying to guess. Yeah, this is a old school one, but not well, quote unquote old school, but it's, um, super decentralized, um, anonymous and a lot like a Murano mundane.Minero Minero they're all over the place. Yo producer, go on. Can we get a super cut of that? Yeah. And then I say it wrong, then I get embarrassed. And then I just say it wrong again, and just, it's like a snowball effect. Good content right there. Uh, can you need to do some vocal compilation episode? Yeah, that's what I'm saying.Tik TOK. Super cut of all the, the goofs. Uh, okay, so let's see. What is the use of this like Monero? You. Old coin. I mean, we can go into it. It's says a de-centralized blockchain by the token and they, they kind of a rebel in the anonymous transactions. I gotcha. Um, okay. It is three o'clock. Unfortunately guys, we are out of time.Uh, but thank you guys all so much for tuning in today. If you're new to Benzinga or new to moon are bust, make sure you subscribe to the channel and drop a like on the video. So YouTube will show it to more people. We can grow our community. Also, if you're here for crypto, do not forget to subscribe to the Benzinga crypto separate YouTube channel.It's the first link in the description below. We are going to move over to that channel and really push growth on that. Once we hit a thousand subs. Uh, so make sure you're early. If you want to be entered. That giveaway. Um, but yeah. Thank you guys all so much for tuning in. As I already said, I'm going to take this off.Uh, and you guys have any closing thoughts for us, Ryan or Brian? Follow me on Twitter for mute and Monday. Yeah. I'm going to work on my vocal lesson. I don't know. I'm not a professional shout out to all the apes out there in the chat. It is up on Twitter, connect with us. We'd love to talk to you. Uh, but until then, uh, we will see you on Wednesday.Right now. We have pre-market prep at the close coming up. Uh, so if you want that stunk alpha, make sure to stick around. All right. Peace guys.Why the heck did we have 10 people watching when we started? Yeah, there was no redirect. Uh, it was a coal, you can blame. It's all equals fault.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Interview with Austin Virts: Previous head of marketing at Solana, now at AudiusMarket update: NFTs, Cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, EthereumGucci Grailed 10K CollectionMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary:What Does China's Crypto Ban Mean?Regulations Twitter Bitcoin integration Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyTokens talked about on the show:DEI, ETH, xSUSHI,CURVE DAQ Token,Guests: Maxwell Grosse Over 6 years of engineering, program management, risk management and business development experience. Former Boeing Defense, Space, and Security engineer. Over 5 years of cryptocurrency market and blockchain research experience.) wil be on to talk about SuperBid's NFT marketplace and update us on recent developments for SuperBid.Resources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Today's Cryptocurrency Prices by Market CapCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. This is flight 47 on the moon or bus rocket ship. If you can believe it. Uh, today's space flight will be hosted by me, Logan Ross, and co-hosted by Brian Moore, defy developer and Ryan McNamara, exit liquidity nation.How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. Hey, quite the name you came up with today, Logan just pull it right off the top. How was things in Logan's world? You Logan's world is going pretty well. Just keeping it calm, stay in busy, trying to, you know, just, just stay focused. Just do it. Provide the best moon or bust content in the world, uh, that I can possibly come up with coming up with all these crazy names off the top.So, uh, yeah, so let's, let's talk about a couple of safety procedures that we need to get out of the way before we can start the show. Uh, so first up I need anyone who is willing and able to please activate their. But in, into the on position, uh, I need everyone else to comment down below the crypto projects.You're looking at this week, drop tickers, whatever it might be, and maybe let us know why you're looking at them, what you're thinking about them. Uh, and if we get time at the end, we'll go through them all. Uh, after that, while you're down there, I want to point out a couple links in the description below.So first up is the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel. Uh, you do not want to miss out on this content. It's all the highlights from all of our crypto shows here at Benzinga. If you're new, make sure to subscribe to the main channel as well. Also, we have a telegram and merge. If you join the telegram, we'll give you a 25% off discount code so you can get a sick moon or bust a theory about.Designed by yours truly. Uh, and as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter and check out our helpful money site resources in the description as well. Uh, okay, so let's get right into the news. Ryan, you want to tell us about the sushi swap hack that happened? I think Brian could probably do a little bit better job as the defiant developer, but $3 million were stolen off of sushi.Swap from the Misa launch pad. Brian, do you want to go over this in detail a little bit more? Um, you let me pull it up and you go ahead and do a little run down and let you pull up. So this happened, was it yesterday, Logan, there was 865 Ethereum stolen off of me. So, which is a product on sushi swap for small tokens.It's essentially a launch pad where people can invest in a initial Dex offering. So similar to ICO, but it's called the IDEO. Um, so someone was able to inject malicious code into the software. So everybody trying to get these tokens or ended up just giving their ether to this guy's wallet. But luckily there are a lot of nice hackers in crypto.So this guy already gave back the funds and then some, so he's still. 864.8, Ethereum, which is about $3 million. And today he gave back 865 Ethereum. So maybe it's earning interest on it or something. A rumor has it that he got some miso soup delivered to his house. So maybe he was paying them back for the miso soup delivered to his house.I that's not confirmed, but that's what I saw on Twitter. So, I mean, if it's on Twitter, it's probably cool guy. I want him to hack me next. If he's going to get back the money, give back the money. It looks like this attack was, uh, called a supply chain attack. And I actually don't know too much, um, about how that kind of works.I was trying to look into it and get some details, but it's, it's a little bit more, um, involved or complicated than a. The, the flash loan attacks or, you know, that kind of exploit, it's not as straightforward or simple as, you know, you may rise in the price and then taking all out and excellent liquidity or taking everything out of a certain wallet or something.It's a, uh, a supply chain attack. And so it's, this is a new one to me. I think it's been around, but. Yeah, it's a little different. I have to look into that and report back on what a supply chain attack is. Next time I heard that it was a malicious code, injection attack. Um, and I mean, that one seems more, more common to me.That's probably the same thing. I mean, maybe it's just another name for. Uh, anyways, let's see. So how about that new, uh, sushi swap NFT. I'm Ryan. Yeah, that's really exciting. It's called show you NFT. And it's coming out this month on sushi swap. Lots of developers are working on this right now and it looks like it's going to be the first real big competitor to open.See, everybody uses open, see for NFTs right now. And like we've covered on the show. There's been a lot of problems with it. From servers from employees from a lot of different things on open. See it hasn't been a great experience for many users there. So this is going to be really interesting to see how this sushi swap.And if ti marketplace goes over there adding some really cool features to it. For example, you can place bids on NFTs and that either is usually locked up, say on open sea and you can't use it on sushi swap. You'll be able to earn yield on your. So this is going to be like particularly well for the people who have hundreds of NFTs and a lot of Ethereum.And, you know, they're going out and going on board apes and putting in 30, 40 eith bids and hoping that they get accepted now, instead of just having that be locked up on the platform, they can actually be earning interest on their Ethereum while these bids are placed on an FTS, which I think is really cool.There also, they're also fractionalizing NFTs. So you'll be able to get fractionalized NFTs on the platform, which is essentially buying a piece like a share of an NFT. We'll see if the sec comes after sushi for that. I know they're after unit swap right now and fractionalize NFTs are likely to be security.So there will probably be regulation coming four or five fractionalized NFTs. We haven't seen it yet. I mean, it's such a new space, but I really like what sushi swaps doing. They've been putting so many new products onto their website and I love where they're going. So what do you guys have to say about sushi?Swap about show you NFTs. What's your take, do you think they can think about sushi? Swap? I found my notes. Um, so the malicious code and the whole hack is somebody went into the get hub and change the wallet address to their own custom wallet address for the IDEO. And so they, uh, you know, everyone depositing funds just put it straight to this.Person's, you know, Ethereum wallet. Yeah. He was like, okay, well, now that I got that look how easy it is. He returned it, but that's really what happened. So there was malicious code put into the front end to change out the wallets and everything like that. So malicious though, wasn't malicious because he gave it back after a day.It might've been because they threatened to file with the FBI. But I think a lot of these people who do this in return, the funds are just trying to protect people from these bugs in the code. And they don't want to go to the government. I mean, so many people in crypto are libertarian. They want to deal with the government.Um, so I mean, this is just another way to do it. And honestly, it seems more effective because they keep the funds safe in their own wallet and they exploit something. It gains a lot of attention and then it gets fixed within a day or so instead of actually try and go to the government to get something done, which would take months or even years to do, it's kind of like hacktivist.Yeah, you have, there's quite a bit of that. And it's, I think it's a good thing because you don't have people just straight taking everything. Like you said, you have people trying to protect other people's funds, protect a project and make sure things are growing. And I like that. I mean, I don't want $50 million of mine stolen, but I don't have 50 million.Yeah. I mean, once you discover the bug, it's the classic prisoner's dilemma, whoever you report it to then has the opportunity to just take the money themselves. Right. So he has to lock it up and then hopefully he'll be a good guy. He or she will be a good guy and return the money. Um, okay. Let's see. So yesterday reportedly, uh, $1,000,000,001.2 billion of Eve disappeared from centralized exchanges, uh, glass nodes, reporting, some different things.Uh, but this one is from, I think it's called into the block. Uh, it was the people, it was the company that reported. Um, we S we haven't confirmed, uh, with glass snowed yet, but we're working on it. So if this is true, we'll just report it, uh, you know, tentatively for now, uh, and talk about what it could mean if it is true.So, Ryan, you want to take it away. So yeah, if this is true, $1 billion, $1.2 billion of each leaving exchanges should be pretty bullish for the asset. So if people are taking their Ethereum off exchanges, typically they aren't looking for liquidity. If you have your crypto on an exchange, You can easily sell it for FIA and then cash out of your investment.Whereas people transferring off of exchanges usually do so for enhanced security to hold over the longterm or use with the Phi project. So if you're using Ethereum with DFI projects, there'll be locking it into smart contracts. Maybe you're staking on eith too, with this much money, maybe you're using a different program to earn some passive income, but usually it's a really good scientist.Ethereum leave exchanges. That's essentially a theory that isn't going to be. At least on centralized exchanges until it's brought back onto these exchanges and sold for Fiat currency. So in my opinion, this is something that's really bullish. And we haven't seen this since. What is that like? No April was, this is a new record all the time, all time record.That's huge. But the last time you saw anything similar was back in April and you can see that was right before each shot up like 60% or even higher. It looks like it shot up from maybe $2,200 all the way to $4,000. So obviously we don't know if that's going to happen again, but we see when he leaves exchanges, especially in high volumes like this, a lot of times it's a good bullish signal for.Yep. And they pointed out the last time this happened, as you said, Ryan, if the price of Ethereum increased by 60% within 30 days. Uh, so, um, I got my fingers crossed that this is true. Could be good news. Oh, ready. Got anything else for us today on the agenda? I think we covered the news. Shall we hop right into the interview?Let's do it. Okay. So today we have with us a very special guest. His name is TiVo and he is a researcher and expert on special economic zones. So I'm going to bring him on to stream. Uh, Hey, TiVo. Welcome. Hello. Nice to meet you. Yeah. Nice to meet you too. How are you doing today? Excellent. Glad to hear it.Well, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I'm not particularly an expert on special economic zones, so I'm excited to learn today. Um, so could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, in various industries about special economic zones and then maybe eventually how you got into crypto? Sure, sure.So I'm the co-founder of a firm called the Adrian Oakville group where the only business intelligence firm that works with, um, exclusively and the Sez India. We primarily work with investors who want to put their money in the zone who want to invest in building a new zone and sort of do all of the background research necessary to guide them through that process in terms of crypto.Um, it's been more of a personal hobby of mine. I first got into crypto in 2013, uh, due to a conference. So I've been seeing sort of the, the, the different booms and busts over the years and all of that, the, the case. Um, but recently it's intersected with my professional career because it turns out that a lot of special economic zones are now trying to adopt regulatory frameworks to promote cryptocurrency, to legalize it in countries that are otherwise illegal.So it's this very fascinating trend on the regulatory. Okay. So for anyone out there who hasn't heard of special economic zones before, uh, could you just tell us what they are and what the purpose of them is? Sure. So especially economic zones are a part of a country that has its own rules and regulations separate from the rest of the country.Think like a native American reservation that is exempt from federal laws and can have a casino. If you're an American and legal cannabis. Well, sometimes governments that have a lot of very complicated rules for doing business. We'll do this with a business park or they'll do this sometimes with the whole city.Um, you've probably heard of them Hong Kong, wouldn't left Britain and rejoins China rejoined as a special economic zone with a lot of legal autonomy. Uh, Dubai is a city that has, I think 46, 47 SEZs it's just a city state of city states. Um, this is about 7,500 STDs in the world, 12,000 total, they're in 70 countries and they account for this huge percentage of the world economy, and nobody's ever heard of them, which is why they're so fascinating.Yeah, that is crazy. I had no clue that. I mean, it's, there's so many in Dubai. What would be the purpose of having so many in one small location? Sure. So in the case of Dubai, um, this is a common misconception. Dubai did not have any. So what happened is that you have this, you have this, this desert country in the middle of nowhere and all of their neighbors were politically unstable and had oil.So instead of selling oil, what they decided to do was to settle legal stability, and they outsourced the legal system to the best lawyers from the UK to the best lawyers from Singapore, they created these special economic zones for different entities. Uh, DMCC Dubai, uh, multi commodity center, uh, Dubai international financial center for different industries that had different legal systems.And because all of their neighbors were trying to pump the oil sort of during the gold rush, you know, the people who made the money, weren't the, the, the schmucks who are out there panning for gold. It was the people selling the pancakes and selling the shovels. So that's basically what Dubai did. Hmm.Fascinating. I don't know if you have an estimate, but what, uh, like what portion of the global economy or what effect, uh, of the total global economy desk Easy's play. Are you ready to be somewhat terrified? I'm ready. Okay. You're going down. Walmart. You're looking all of the plastic crap that they have.What percentage of it was made in a special economic. According to world bank figures. Uh, I'll let Ryan gets 10% about 50%. So if you're, if you're looking at the largest Sez is a special economic zone in Saudi Arabia, $1 trillion of money from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, you know, invested in this thing.Um, the population of the special economic. You have cities with populations, 40, 50, 60 million people living in China, uh, millions of people in India, living in them. And many of the people who live in Denmark only at most vaguely aware. So what this means is that. When governments want to try some new legal sort of legal system.And I have some very interesting examples of this, uh, with something like cryptocurrency, which is highly controversial, the moment they start putting it in SEZs, it's almost like they're testing something to implement on a more widespread national level. So it was very interesting applications. So what have we seen with crypto?And Sez so far. So in 20 12, 1 of the first jurisdictions to start regulating cryptocurrencies was the Cayman enterprise city and became an islands. Now came in Ireland, already sort of top rated jurisdictions. Maybe a tax Haven has its own issues, but it's sort of like the top rated jurisdiction within the top rated jurisdiction already.Right. And they decided to start regulating crypto code. And instead of actually reducing regulation on crypto, they actually increased it. But because they did this before anyone else, it meant that all of the investors who had regulatory concerns started investing there. So, um, a lot of these, the like the browser brave and a whole bunch of these, these, these, I think coin from, uh, are all based and came in.Um, other interesting examples. It turns out that a lot of these special economic zones. Have electrical generation. So during downtime, when you know, nobody's using electricity at 3:00 AM, right? So, and if you're have a coal plant, all of that electricity is just wasted. So in the past, what they've done is literal mining, where they actually will smell to metals with the excess electricity and like literally have the metal refineries and smelter.Is there any Iran, a country or cryptocurrency is legal. We had this guy on my podcast. Um, Iran has legalized Bitcoin and its special economic zones has hold a mining. Operations is actually working with all sorts of investors and what's even crazier. They're going to start legalizing it for retail investors for companies registered on the, on the Kish island, uh, just a few weeks ago.So we're going to see a lot more of that. That's cool. So it seems like SEZs are almost like a pilot program before it goes out to the entire country. Yes. Yes. So when, when China reformed from, from socialism to capitalism in the 1980s, um, they had just had this mass famine from rapidly changing everything to communism.Where about 50 million people died of famine in China due to economic mismanagement in the fifties, for a sense of scale, the entire death toll of all of world war II, including the whole. Is 80 million. So 50 million people starving China, 80 million people die in all of world war II. Right? So worst disaster in human history, maybe second, worst after world war II.So they really did not want to just like adopt capitalism on the national level when the switch to socialism was so disruptive. So they tested it in these special economic zones. And, uh, within the first year, 60% of all foreign investors. Coming to China was coming through the SEZs. Wow. So SES, these have been around for a long time, then it's not like they're a new phenomenon non, when did they start coming about?So I've actually been doing a lot of research to this. Um, if, if that's sort of an interesting rabbit hole, but, uh, the Roman empire to give you a sense of scale, one of their enemies was the city state of roads. Um, roads is like, you know, sort of the island that's right next to Turkey. Roads had all of this massive navies and the Romans had to attack by sea, but they're Navy.These were crap. Worst of all that the fighting Carthage at this point, this is 1 66 BC. They'd been fighting Carthage at to this point for 30 years. So their manpower was totally exhausted and roads were there could have been an alternate timeline where roads unseated, Rome, and wiped out the Roman empire before it had a chance to be born.But Rhodes had one critical. It's entire government budget, which is funded by a 2% tariff on all goods going through their parts. So the Rogan's created a special economic zone with a 0% tariff, right next to roads. And in five years roads with so bankrupt that they voluntarily begged to join the Roman empire.Wow. That's a cool story. So, uh, moving back to crypto TiVo, have you consulted for any cryptocurrency projects? Um, no. Okay. So what's the typical role? Like, do you see blockchain playing a role in these STCs for the, for the companies that you do consult for? Yeah. So, um, one of the companies that we consult for, have you heard of Kronos?It sounds familiar, but I'm not familiar with the audience anyway. So most is a VC fund. The anchor investor is Peter TLF PayPal. Okay. My wife works there and you should talk to Patri Friedman. I could give you an intro. He's the guy who runs the fund is actually investing. Uh, and they have a whole bunch of famous LPs, but I don't want to get in trouble, but less well-known well-known figures.I, I think Balaji is public. So I'll, I'll say him, but what they're doing is they're actually going out and they're actually investing in sort of like the really futuristic projects that are going through. Make the cryptocurrency regulation happens. So it's sort of the invisible underpinning and you have some servers, you know, you have a registered company in the zone, you have the servers in that zone.And as long as you're not dealing with us investors, you have to deal with sec. Um, you can bring in investors from anywhere in the world and there'll be a, there'll be exempt. So they're looking at projects and in Honduras, uh, Nigeria, they've already invested in, uh, looking at other projects in Africa.Yeah, don't want to get in trouble, but a very interesting stuff. So cool. And then I saw that one of your services is information assurance where you help companies verify and secure data. What are your thoughts on the intersection between information assurance and crypto and blockchain technology? So I can't really comment too much about that, but it's actually not information assurance or I guess that's part of it.That's really the big use for blockchain, right? But it's for online company registries. Um, because if you, if you just have like some random dude who just starts like a blockchain registry, right? You, you, you, you release the software online and get a bunch of users. It's not actually tied to any legal system.So it doesn't the U S government doesn't recognize this in contract law. But if you're tied to say the government. I don't know, let's, let's just make up a country, say Nigeria or something like that. And you're all Cayman islands. Right. And you're tied indirectly because the SEZs are. Can act as a metaphorical user interface between you and the government.So you actually registering your company with the zone and the zone itself is on the blockchain. That actually creates a situation where you can implement these technologies legally in a way that normally kind of bypasses having to like change legislation, to have blockchain company registration recognized by the U S government.So very interesting ways you can hack and bypass the legal system. Hm. So turning back to regulation for a second, uh, how should the U S and I, and other sovereign countries, and maybe how, how will Sez is playing this as well? How should they handle crypto regulation? Um, I can't really speak to that simply because I'm not a, an expert on crypto regulation, but my, my own perspective is that, and this is just sort of a personal opinion, not a professional.Is that the government should create sort of sandbox environments where people can, Hey, you signed this document, you know, maybe I'm going to lose everything and you, you, you acknowledge and you just try whatever. And maybe it turns out to be stupid, but I really think that's sort of the, the approach that, um, is going to generate the most innovation.Interesting. It's like we saw that Bitcoin beach in El Salvador. Like a little test city. Uh, yeah, that makes sense. I don't know anything about it yet, but, uh, interesting project. So TiVo, you guys also provide cyber security audits to your companies who are in SEZs. Why is this particularly necessary for companies that are in special economic zones?Um, you know, it's just sort of a standard package of it services. Uh, one of our co-founders Herzon on Flores just used to be doing cybersecurity. He did cybersecurity for Virginia police. So it's just like, Hey, let's just toss that in as sort of a service we offer, but really, you know, our, the, the bulk of our services right.Is mostly due diligence. It's mostly, Hey, I want to invest in X, Y, Z zone. Um, and working with investors on that front to get into the zone. I have some interesting sort of actually examples that are quite relevant right now. Um, right now, one of the big things that's, that's, that's, that's that's going on is Belarus.The Belarus industrial park, right. Has announced this complete cryptocurrency sandbox, but you know, people, I'm sure your, your listeners, or at least a good percentage of them will know that there are massive. Uh, protests against the Bella Russian government, right? There are massive situations where the government was almost basically overthrown because it was so corrupt by the people and massive, you know, horrible police, crackdowns, horrible treatment of protestors.Right. So we're kind of like the guys you'd hire before you go to Belarus to figure it out. Hey, if you go here or if you go to some other country, um, you're going to get in trouble and all sorts of weird.so my, my next question for you TiVo is about the types of blockchain implementation that you've seen in SEZs. Is it mostly like say payment processing where you can send payments like cross borders for very cheap, or is it more adoption of private blockchains within a company? We're an investment or is it more like blockchain platforms, like a theory or Solano where you can interact with programs on a blockchain?Um, so it's, it's, it's kind of disappointing. You don't really see that many. So w if you're talking about the well established special economic zones that are already in existence, you don't actually see that many real day-to-day applications of blockchain yet. However, to the extent that it is arriving, Uh, it's much more on the payment processing side.Um, it's less that the blockchains themselves are using the, the, the, the, sorry, the special economic zones themselves are using blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. What it is is that it's more that the, uh, the, the, the, the people. Are setting up these companies in order to operate in a given region are relocating to the zones and the zones are basically bending over backwards, going really, you know, all out, uh, in order to sort of help make that happen.Hmm. Interesting, interesting example. Right. So in may of this year, two of Dubai's most longstanding special economic centers. These SEZs have been around for, you know, 40. Uh, DMCC and the IFC Dubai international financial center. Um, these zones typically stayed away from crypto. These zones very much, uh, headquarters of site, Blackstone, Warburg, Pincus type old school wall street, private equity firms, middle Eastern headquarters for these companies.And typically the zones that have done crypto, you know, the zones that have gone for. I have been kind of like the zones in Iran or the zones in Belarus. And they've been kind of the SEZs in weird place as of the last six months, the big trend that you're seeing with kind of this, this, you know, third, big bubble in the last like six years sort of coming to an end is that the zones have realized, Hey, crypto may crash and rise or whatever, but it's going to be here to stay.And if they're not sort of on the bandwidth, Uh, they're going to get left behind. So they're adopting regulatory frameworks, which on paper look like they're imposing all of these sanctions on crypto, but by actually creating this environment, um, are actually able to sort of reassure investors that these are going to be stable places to invest in.So have you seen that special economic zones that have made regulation for cryptocurrency? Have an influx of investors come to them over the past year with blockchain exploding and crypto going up. So. Yes, not only do they have an N so Cayman enterprise city has, I think it's either 200 or 250 spots.All 200 and 250 are full with a huge waiting list for any office space. Um, I spoke to a guy who ran a random textile park company in El Salvador. He rans El Salvador's biggest textile, special economic zones. You know, all they do is like make t-shirts and white rubber gloves too, and good, useful stuff.And he wakes up one day reads the news. Huh? Cool. El Salvador's, you know, adopting. It doesn't think much of it opens his inbox and has, you know, 900 emails from random people, cold emailing him to relocate to his own. And he's like, what in the world is going on? You know? And you're hearing the most crazy stuff as soon as one of these zones even announced its crypto.Um, it, th th th they get bombarded, but the problem is that these zones have no ability to identify, say, Ponzi schemes from, you know, legitimate projects. So it's, it's, they're also terrified. Uh, a lot of the ones are, are full of Ponzi scheme. It's a total, it's a total mess right now. So it sounds like countries and their citizens have a lot to gain from introducing these crypto special economic zones attracting lots of innovation.Uh, but they do have to, you know, start small work their way up, learn the valuable lessons about the Ponzis and the real projects. Um, that's cool. What would you say the most important role that crypto or blockchain plays in these special economic zone? So in one, one really interesting trend is that a lot of these zones there's like every possible imaginable industry has a zone and the level of specificity, the level of granularity think of zones.It's like a tailored legal system to target a very granular, specific industry. Right. And I'll give you an idea. I was talking to a guy who does nonwoven fabrics, things like wool or rubber gloves, plastic, blue tarp, all of that's non-woven fabrics. And I'm like, so tell me more about the textiles industry.And he got really pissed off and he's like, I'm not textiles and non-woven fabric totally different industry. And like, that's sort of the level of meekness. Right. And a lot of these zones. We're office parks, a lot of these special economic zones where like, like, you know, rows of computers, cubicles, whatever, uh, in the Philippines, all over the world.And the workers are just never coming back to the offices. It's not a two-week lockdown. It's not a six month lockdown. They're all working from home. None of them want to go back to the Cuba. Um, and now all of these zones have this infrastructure for office space, which could be adopted for crypto, could become, you know, startup incubators, and they're suddenly left scratching their heads.So I kinda think that the, these governments are slow moving. Um, I'd say that they're trying to use cryptocurrency and blockchain as sort of a replacement in half the cases. It's a replacement for anchor tenants who disappeared. And then the other half of cases, they're kind of late to the bandwagon and they're desperately trying to find their way to get in.So it's, it's generally one of two things and occasionally you have some really forward-thinking, you know, jurisdiction. You have three or four. That I actually are, but yeah, that, that, that actually sort of our foreign thing, but usually it's fear and a fear of missing out. Yeah. I can see that. Well, how big are special economic zones?W w what's the range or how can you tell where it's located? All right. So I have two sort of extreme stories. Um, there, the us has something called foreign trade zones. There's about 250 300. All they are. Is that good? The enter and exit the foreign trade zone legally haven't entered the U S so the idea is that you're building a car, you import the tires from, you know, Germany or whatever you put them onto the car and they don't have to pay the tariffs.So the us has like the most basic lowest level of Sez. They barely even count. I, I read online that in San Jose, California, when I was visiting there, then the special economic zone. So I messaged the guy and I'm like, Hey, can I visit the zone? And he's like, oh, sure. And the first bad sinus, he says, nobody's visited me in years.So he takes me to this, you know, 40 story building. Right. And I go into this building and I go up this elevator and there's this dusty little office that is, um, you know, three meters by two meters like this, like dusty, tiny one extreme. And that was the foreign trade zone. That, that, that was. Um, uh, so on the, on the largest and, um, you, you have in El Salvador the same within a few months of, of, of, uh, El Salvador announcing that they were going to Bitcoin.China announced the zone several hundred square kilometers. That's going to encompass 20% of El Salvador's coastline. So. So, if you look at these zones into the in desert countries like Saudi Arabia, or even the UAE or Oman, right. You have zones that are hundreds of square kilometers. So it's really the whole gamut in terms of population.Once again, dusty closet, uh, Chinese Ken's in population. How do you delegate, uh, especially getting an exam, like H how do you just say, like, Hey, this is the zone, this is what we're doing. So there's two ways that special economic zones, uh, come about. Um, the first is sort of, application-based think a government official with a Sharpie drawing on a map from now on this area over here will be the special economic zone.That's kind of like the China model. You know, it's the pointing at the map, the tapping, we will have economic development. Um, the other model is application-based. So that's like Columbia, where if you own say two or three square kilometers of land and meet this long checklist of requirements, you file an application and you get, um, you get special economic zone status on their land.So sometimes they're started by the government. Sometimes just started by business. Uh, we got stats that our company. One third are, are purely government. One third are purely private and one third public private partnerships. So it's almost exactly evenly divided. Um, but the extent of the private designation is pretty incredible because you have the city of Google, uh, Gurgaon and India, and they switched the names about 10 years ago.And the entire zone has private water system, private police, private fire department, private electricity, primary management, nothing is done by the government at all. And you have zones that are taking this even further in Honduras. You can even apply to have entirely privatized legal systems for all civil law.So anything that's not criminal law that's in these Honduras is Adams. That's going to be special economic. It goes to a fully privatized legal system within the zone. And it's scaring a lot of people and you know, whether or not it works out, I think is still up for debate, but they go pretty far sometimes by the way, constellation 1 million.So, wow. That's incredible. And that's super interesting. I'm really surprised. I haven't heard of that. And I'm sure that's a super interesting case study to research about, uh, have you done some research on this? Like how is it really playing out? Because I haven't heard. Okay. How how's what playing outside privatization in, in these SEZs that are doing this.Um, as far as I can tell, it's a roll of the dice. Most of the time, you're going to get a two to five and not much will happen either way. Sometimes you get a six and you get the city of Shenzen, you know, which goes from a fishing village of 60,000 to a mega city of 60 million. And like 40 years and accounts for 60% of China's investment than 70% of their things.You know, you get retarded, crazy results. One way. Sometimes you get golden triangle Sez in Myanmar. The legal autonomy for some zones enables the worst in humanity. So the triads have their own special economic zone in Laos, on the border with me and mark and they have a casino, but it's known for human trafficking.Uh, 245 women were abducted and forced into prostitution recently freed by ocean authorities in this zone, you have wildlife smuggling, um, and there's actually YouTube videos. If you look up, uh, golden triangle, uh, special economic zone on YouTube, they, they, they, they, they map mass manufacture methamphetamines.Um, they, they have, they have like lions that they like make fight and cages with each other. And. Uh, they have like all sorts of animals that they take apart for traditional medicine. So you have the worst possible and humanity and the best possible. And it's, you know, you're kind of gambling as a country in this.There's not really much of a way to predict what the results were. These are wild. One last thing from, from me is can, uh, we saw you talking about a start-up society. Can you just tell us a brief example? We don't have to go too deep into it, but what a start-up society is and how they correlate to SEZs.Sure. So I started in 2015, a nonprofit think tank called the startups and studies foundation. I left in 2017. Um, a startup society is just. Anybody who's trying to create a society to Nova. So say the country of Catalonia before it becomes a country while it's still like an independence movement is a start-up society or a special economic zone could be another type of.Gotcha. Interesting. So I have a question for you. You say the us government, uh, contracts, you to create a crypto sandbox in the country. What would you pitch to them? Ooh, good question. Um, You know, w what I would do probably, and there's just sort of, the way I am is I would do a crap ton of research, and I would find a ton of people.Who've done a lot of research. Um, and I'd go about it by interviewing about two or 300. And I know I'm not just giving you an answer like plastics, but I go back, I try to interview two or 300 business people who do cryptocurrency, um, at all sides. It's very new people, people who are sort of on the very high end of companies, very well.And I get, you know, all of their top five regulatory pain points, uh, get all the interviews for the top five regulatory pain points for 200 people. And, uh, based off of that, I try to come up with like the three D I wouldn't try to do too much. I'd just try to fix the three biggest, most common pain points to all of the interviews.And really, I think that the, the best results for these kinds of things is. You know, really ask the people involved and not try to do it in the abstract, although I'm sure that if I was like a crypto lawyer, I could just say, you know, plastics or whatever. Very cool. And those location matter when it comes to Cristo.Yes. Yes it does. And I'd say that it matters for three reasons. One, you probably are actually going to be doing to take advantage of a lot of the incentives. You actually have to be physically. So you want to be in a nice location where there's not corruption. That's really beautiful. Um, I live in Switzerland, uh, actually live 20 minutes from Lichtenstein, which is one of the, the crypto capitals of the world and maybe 30 minutes to the other direction from zoo.Right. It's such a beautiful country that that's totally white. People are coming. Even if the regulations aren't say as good as the next reason why location matters is because the regulation can change. The voters of the country can just say overnight new election comes as a coup you know, um, okay.We're just getting rid of the special economic zones and by the way, Uh, we want you to either go to jail for 15 years, we're turning all of your keys and we're taking all of your crypto, you know, so that totally can happen. And in fact, I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure. At some point the government takes there's enough crypto rich people that are there for a conference we'll just like start arresting people and demanding keys on trumped up stuff.So number one, location actually matters. Number two is, uh, you don't want, you know, to have a corruption and number three has electricity. The average cost per kilowatt hour globally as 14 cents. Um, you can get half that in some places. So if you're especially doing mining, uh, that's very valuable. However, like those zones I mentioned in Iran, you know, it's, it's, it's, they, they in fact will subsidize your electricity in some cases.Interesting. So earlier this year we saw China banned Bitcoin mining. They've basically taken control over it and issued their own central bank, digital currency. Instead, are we seeing China do any experiments in their special economic zones with crypto? Okay. Want to know something LR. This is going to blow your minds again.Are you ready please? Do. I was in 500 special economic zones in China, right? Oh, how many Chinese special economic zones are there? Run by Chinese corporations outside of. Oh, I, I it's either going to be a really high number or I'm imagining a really high number is going to be a high number. But could you say that question one more time?How many companies are they're run by the Chinese government and Chinese state run companies, Chinese special economic sounds outside of China? Well, there's about 10,000 of them worldwide and 2,500 are in China already. So that leaves about 7,500. I have no clue, maybe 2000, if it's a high number. Well, you're, you're over it, but there's 500 Chinese SEZs outside of China.And so what qualifies it as a Chinese SCC? Like a special economic zone, that's run by any Chinese company. That definition is if the usually zones have an operator, which is kind of like the country that owns the land, builds the buildings, cleans the law and whatever, if that company is Chinese, we have a, by the way, we're about to publish the world's first map of every single special economic zone on earth and took us two years of work.Um, but, but one of the data we collected was to see where all the Chinese. And it's terrifying because in some of the most extreme cases, we found Chinese SEZs outside of us military basis. So the U S has all of these overseas bases and the like, like a bunch of idiots, the U S government is, you know, Hey, we're going to go in through military imperialism, spend $2 trillion and then leave Afghanistan 20 years later, the Chinese.No we're going to do, we're going to build a happy mall right next to the U S military base and invite TGI Fridays to the shopping mall. So all the off duty soldiers will spend money on us, government money in our shopping, bubbles find like Chinese shopping miles outside of any military base in Africa, you find that there's military basis.The only connection they have to the outside world are Chinese freeways and Chinese railroads. You know, I don't think it's actually that the trends are going to shut it off. I just think it's that they're like taking all the money from the U S government basically indirectly, um, in terms of, uh, cryptocurrency, um, you know, the Chinese are always up to, uh, they really want to promote, you know, Th th the digitization of the, of, of the Yuan and promoting sort of the digital one as the one world currency that's running administered by China.So, you know, I think you're going to just see that be implemented. Um, and all of the zones, I have kind of an interesting little anecdote of this, and I don't want to mention the zone cause they're good people. I don't want to embarrass them, but one of the largest special economic zones in Africa, our team is about to do it.And we emailed them and we're like, Hey, we heard your zone splint by the Chinese and villain. No, no Chinese people here, you know, it's all Chinese characters, it's all a, we chat, pay every single star, um, uh, you know, giant Chinese flag that says, uh, uh, sort of, you know, welcome home. And, um, you have zones with names like qualling special economic zone in Georgia, you know, the country of Georgia.Hm. So I'm guessing that these countries let China have these special economic zones just for the purpose of developing their own economies as well. Yes. And you know, to be fair, I think the reason why China has done so well with the SCCs is because it's actually pretty good for, you know, the, the, the locals peaceful.Yeah. There's there's problems there. Chicanery, there are corruptions, but many of the time it's. All the men in your town suddenly get jobs that pay twice as much working for the Chinese factory, where there's been no development in a war torn country for 20 years, you know, you're going to be very supportive of China, right?They're doing what sort of, uh, America wishes it did during the cold war, but a zillion times better. And I think they learned that from the U S. Very interesting. Do you, uh, do any, like personally, do you invest in cryptos? Do you follow any projects or are you into that space at all? No comment. No, I got it.Yeah. That makes sense. Are you interested in the, in NFL? Um, okay. I think NFTs are totally stupid. The reason why is because I think intellectual property is like an outdated sort of institution. We need to be moving towards, you know, open source, copyright free. So, uh, to the extent the NFTs are, are, are.For people claiming ownership of like digital assets. I think that's like really the wrong direction. Um, however, I imagine that there's a ton of other non-trivial applications out there, so I'm not hating on those, but I am hating on, uh, what is it? Crypto kitties or whatever has.It's interesting to see that these digital assets are the first type of NFT to really get put into the mainstream, though. We did see it's real a use NFTs in a pilot program for, I think it was land deeds and Carla. And so it's really cool to see governments like catching an eye for NFTs. And it's going to be really interesting to see where it goes, because like you said, TiVo, it's not just about these digital assets or verifying like digital IP.There's a million different use cases for them. And we're only scratching the surface right now. So you said land needs and Carla. Yes, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's that's like exactly what it should be used for, right? Yeah. Yeah. I imagine it is going to be your whole identity, like in the future where you're going to have, you know, your, um, your, it is going to be tokenized, whatever your social, everything.Maybe hidden, but you know what I mean? I think that's how you can verify everything and never get lost and all that other stuff, like you said, there's a ton of, um, different use cases for entities, not just profile pictures or images like you, you know? Cause I understand the, uh, kind of thing about. But at the same time, I feel like there is a need to, uh, essentially show off on the internet flex, if you will.Like, like people will buy Rolex's and fancy cars. And with so much time that people spend on internet these days, I think it only makes sense to have a way for people to show off on the internet. Like they do. Fancy cars or other things that might not really have the tangible value that they're worth. I mean, there, there are a lot of things like that in the physical, tangible world.And, and I think it to a degree makes sense. Although silly, I don't think that the government should like regulate it or anything, but I just wish that instead of showing you. You know, so in the, in the, in the middle ages, right. Which was like a time when everything was like a special economics, right.Rights, this age of totally crazy city states. Um, so my, my other hobby outside of STC is medieval history, but in the middle east, there really was this, this, um, this attitude of like, Hey, the rich people are going to show off by like building charts and Publix works and funding the arts and funding sciences.I, and I really hate seeing Lamborghini's and Rolex's when we could be crowdfunding Elon Musk to go build a colony on the moon, or we could be like, you know, funding, like fishing fleets to get rid of all of that plastic in the ocean. So I just wish it was channeled in that direction. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.So I saw on your website, you like to do a lot of book reviews. Uh, could you tell us maybe how you got into that? What you've been reading lately and any recommendations you might have for us here on moon or bust? Sure. So for book reviews, um, this is my personal website, this isn't my, my company, uh, just for fun.I decided I dropped out of college about five years ago and I decided that instead of going to college, I was going to read a book a week nonfiction and review it. Huh? I've stuck to it on average the last few months, has it been that. But I, I, it, it averages out to like 1.2 books a week or something like that.Um, and I mostly read and medieval history. So I've been starting in chronological order and going to the present from about 500 BC trying to read like five to 10 books per century. Um, so I met about 1200, so I've got like decades left to reach the prison because it's, but anyways, um, in terms of history books, um, this goes into special economics.I recommend a book called lost enlightenment. And what this book is about is there was this last Islamic golden civilization, you know, in central Asia during the middle ages, which, uh, basically reached like late 16 hundreds level of technology and like 1800. And they totally get wiped out by the Mongols and the region like loses like a quarter of its population goes back.So you have this situation where there's a super technologically advanced society that pops up in a place that you haven't heard of, you know, a real loss civilization, they go back. So it also tells you that, you know, technology, it's not just an upward linear line, the, the, the Italians and the Renaissance staff to pick up the torch.And it declined and it sort of stays low for a long time. Uh, so lost enlightenment is, is a good one. Um, in terms of special economic zones, another good book is on China by Henriquez Henry. Who actually negotiated a lot of the opening up of China. And it's the history of like how China used special economic zones to reform its economy, to, you know, totally change it society.And it turns out that there's this like four foot, 10, five foot five. I don't know how tall he is, but this little, tiny little guy called dunk shell ping who, everybody who nobody's. Who saved the most human lives of like anybody in the 20th century by building special economic zones and bringing free market to China and like tripling the GDP per capita, you know?Um, so that's the next one. I really like lost enlightenment, uh, sorry. Lost enlightenment on central Asia, uh, on China by Henry kitchen. And I think that the third good one is seeing like a state by James Scott, which is just a book about how, when you look at things from the perspective of statistics and government planning, it just distorts your view on everything.So hope that's not too much. I really like, no, I got those written down TiVo. How do you find time to read? So, so many books, I just listened to audio books. So I'm like just always listening to audio books every minute I have. Very cool. Uh, oh, what's that? No, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no. I just wanted to mention in the time that we have left a few sort of interesting crypto things, if we had time in SEZs B might be kind of interesting.So one of them, that's, that's one trend that is quite interesting is remember how earlier I mentioned and my wife, by the way, wrote a paper about this for the world free zones organization. Um, so remember how I mentioned how a lot of STDs have lost business from work from. Typically to take advantage of the regulations in an sec, what you had to do was you had to be like physically based there, like physically doing business there.And in some cases you even have to pay for the cost of the gut of a government agent to come like inspect, to make sure that you're actually in the zone, not there on paper. Some zones have decided because of work from. To start letting companies take advantage to register as like a work from home company in the zone and start taking advantages of the legal system of the zone working from home.So you could be at a laptop anywhere in the world. And if you're the right special economic zones, be taking advantage of a legal system that really like benefits your need working for. And I think that that from a legal perspective, It's kind of a loophole and who knows if it will last, but if it does last, it's going to, I think totally changed the game for companies doing all of these things that are very regulatorily difficult from a crypto perspective.Awesome. Well, if you guys want to find, find out more about T-bones work, we have his website linked in the description below. You can go check that out. Uh Teebo. If you have any closing thoughts or shout outs, you want to give, tell the audience where to connect with you. The Florida. Yes. Well, I add 100% of the people who connect to me on LinkedIn and I eventually respond to 100% of my messages.So everybody add me. And, um, I'd love to help you with any SEZs are send any books or whatever. Um, so that's the best place to find me. Uh, the company is Adrian Oakville group, um, which you have linked, I imagine. And, uh, yeah, that's. Alrighty that has been this, uh, episode of moon or bust. We hope you enjoyed it.If you did, please leave us a like, and we can get more of this content for you in the future. Uh, for now we're signing off sticker on for pre market prep. It will be linked in the chat. Uh, but thanks for tuning in. We will see you next.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:What are DAOs?Opolis Interview: Working for DAOs, With BenefitsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary:On today's Moon Or Bust:SushiSwap $3M hackSpecial Economic Zones & Crypto regulation interviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Thibault Serlet Co-Founder and Chief Researcher https://www.adrianoplegroup.com/people/thibault-serletResources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Today's Cryptocurrency Prices by Market CapCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Unedited TranscriptHello, zinger nation. Welcome back to moon or bust your home for all things. All coins and defy. This is flight 47 on the moon or bus rocket ship. If you can believe it. Uh, today's space flight will be hosted by me, Logan Ross, and co-hosted by Brian Moore, defy developer and Ryan McNamara, exit liquidity nation.How are you guys doing today? Fantastic. Hey, quite the name you came up with today, Logan just pull it right off the top. How was things in Logan's world? You Logan's world is going pretty well. Just keeping it calm, stay in busy, trying to, you know, just, just stay focused. Just do it. Provide the best moon or bust content in the world, uh, that I can possibly come up with coming up with all these crazy names off the top.So, uh, yeah, so let's, let's talk about a couple of safety procedures that we need to get out of the way before we can start the show. Uh, so first up I need anyone who is willing and able to please activate their. But in, into the on position, uh, I need everyone else to comment down below the crypto projects.You're looking at this week, drop tickers, whatever it might be, and maybe let us know why you're looking at them, what you're thinking about them. Uh, and if we get time at the end, we'll go through them all. Uh, after that, while you're down there, I want to point out a couple links in the description below.So first up is the Benzinga crypto YouTube channel. Uh, you do not want to miss out on this content. It's all the highlights from all of our crypto shows here at Benzinga. If you're new, make sure to subscribe to the main channel as well. Also, we have a telegram and merge. If you join the telegram, we'll give you a 25% off discount code so you can get a sick moon or bust a theory about.Designed by yours truly. Uh, and as always make sure to connect with us on Twitter and check out our helpful money site resources in the description as well. Uh, okay, so let's get right into the news. Ryan, you want to tell us about the sushi swap hack that happened? I think Brian could probably do a little bit better job as the defiant developer, but $3 million were stolen off of sushi.Swap from the Misa launch pad. Brian, do you want to go over this in detail a little bit more? Um, you let me pull it up and you go ahead and do a little run down and let you pull up. So this happened, was it yesterday, Logan, there was 865 Ethereum stolen off of me. So, which is a product on sushi swap for small tokens.It's essentially a launch pad where people can invest in a initial Dex offering. So similar to ICO, but it's called the IDEO. Um, so someone was able to inject malicious code into the software. So everybody trying to get these tokens or ended up just giving their ether to this guy's wallet. But luckily there are a lot of nice hackers in crypto.So this guy already gave back the funds and then some, so he's still. 864.8, Ethereum, which is about $3 million. And today he gave back 865 Ethereum. So maybe it's earning interest on it or something. A rumor has it that he got some miso soup delivered to his house. So maybe he was paying them back for the miso soup delivered to his house.I that's not confirmed, but that's what I saw on Twitter. So, I mean, if it's on Twitter, it's probably cool guy. I want him to hack me next. If he's going to get back the money, give back the money. It looks like this attack was, uh, called a supply chain attack. And I actually don't know too much, um, about how that kind of works.I was trying to look into it and get some details, but it's, it's a little bit more, um, involved or complicated than a. The, the flash loan attacks or, you know, that kind of exploit, it's not as straightforward or simple as, you know, you may rise in the price and then taking all out and excellent liquidity or taking everything out of a certain wallet or something.It's a, uh, a supply chain attack. And so it's, this is a new one to me. I think it's been around, but. Yeah, it's a little different. I have to look into that and report back on what a supply chain attack is. Next time I heard that it was a malicious code, injection attack. Um, and I mean, that one seems more, more common to me.That's probably the same thing. I mean, maybe it's just another name for. Uh, anyways, let's see. So how about that new, uh, sushi swap NFT. I'm Ryan. Yeah, that's really exciting. It's called show you NFT. And it's coming out this month on sushi swap. Lots of developers are working on this right now and it looks like it's going to be the first real big competitor to open.See, everybody uses open, see for NFTs right now. And like we've covered on the show. There's been a lot of problems with it. From servers from employees from a lot of different things on open. See it hasn't been a great experience for many users there. So this is going to be really interesting to see how this sushi swap.And if ti marketplace goes over there adding some really cool features to it. For example, you can place bids on NFTs and that either is usually locked up, say on open sea and you can't use it on sushi swap. You'll be able to earn yield on your. So this is going to be like particularly well for the people who have hundreds of NFTs and a lot of Ethereum.And, you know, they're going out and going on board apes and putting in 30, 40 eith bids and hoping that they get accepted now, instead of just having that be locked up on the platform, they can actually be earning interest on their Ethereum while these bids are placed on an FTS, which I think is really cool.There also, they're also fractionalizing NFTs. So you'll be able to get fractionalized NFTs on the platform, which is essentially buying a piece like a share of an NFT. We'll see if the sec comes after sushi for that. I know they're after unit swap right now and fractionalize NFTs are likely to be security.So there will probably be regulation coming four or five fractionalized NFTs. We haven't seen it yet. I mean, it's such a new space, but I really like what sushi swaps doing. They've been putting so many new products onto their website and I love where they're going. So what do you guys have to say about sushi?Swap about show you NFTs. What's your take, do you think they can think about sushi? Swap? I found my notes. Um, so the malicious code and the whole hack is somebody went into the get hub and change the wallet address to their own custom wallet address for the IDEO. And so they, uh, you know, everyone depositing funds just put it straight to this.Person's, you know, Ethereum wallet. Yeah. He was like, okay, well, now that I got that look how easy it is. He returned it, but that's really what happened. So there was malicious code put into the front end to change out the wallets and everything like that. So malicious though, wasn't malicious because he gave it back after a day.It might've been because they threatened to file with the FBI. But I think a lot of these people who do this in return, the funds are just trying to protect people from these bugs in the code. And they don't want to go to the government. I mean, so many people in crypto are libertarian. They want to deal with the government.Um, so I mean, this is just another way to do it. And honestly, it seems more effective because they keep the funds safe in their own wallet and they exploit something. It gains a lot of attention and then it gets fixed within a day or so instead of actually try and go to the government to get something done, which would take months or even years to do, it's kind of like hacktivist.Yeah, you have, there's quite a bit of that. And it's, I think it's a good thing because you don't have people just straight taking everything. Like you said, you have people trying to protect other people's funds, protect a project and make sure things are growing. And I like that. I mean, I don't want $50 million of mine stolen, but I don't have 50 million.Yeah. I mean, once you discover the bug, it's the classic prisoner's dilemma, whoever you report it to then has the opportunity to just take the money themselves. Right. So he has to lock it up and then hopefully he'll be a good guy. He or she will be a good guy and return the money. Um, okay. Let's see. So yesterday reportedly, uh, $1,000,000,001.2 billion of Eve disappeared from centralized exchanges, uh, glass nodes, reporting, some different things.Uh, but this one is from, I think it's called into the block. Uh, it was the people, it was the company that reported. Um, we S we haven't confirmed, uh, with glass snowed yet, but we're working on it. So if this is true, we'll just report it, uh, you know, tentatively for now, uh, and talk about what it could mean if it is true.So, Ryan, you want to take it away. So yeah, if this is true, $1 billion, $1.2 billion of each leaving exchanges should be pretty bullish for the asset. So if people are taking their Ethereum off exchanges, typically they aren't looking for liquidity. If you have your crypto on an exchange, You can easily sell it for FIA and then cash out of your investment.Whereas people transferring off of exchanges usually do so for enhanced security to hold over the longterm or use with the Phi project. So if you're using Ethereum with DFI projects, there'll be locking it into smart contracts. Maybe you're staking on eith too, with this much money, maybe you're using a different program to earn some passive income, but usually it's a really good scientist.Ethereum leave exchanges. That's essentially a theory that isn't going to be. At least on centralized exchanges until it's brought back onto these exchanges and sold for Fiat currency. So in my opinion, this is something that's really bullish. And we haven't seen this since. What is that like? No April was, this is a new record all the time, all time record.That's huge. But the last time you saw anything similar was back in April and you can see that was right before each shot up like 60% or even higher. It looks like it shot up from maybe $2,200 all the way to $4,000. So obviously we don't know if that's going to happen again, but we see when he leaves exchanges, especially in high volumes like this, a lot of times it's a good bullish signal for.Yep. And they pointed out the last time this happened, as you said, Ryan, if the price of Ethereum increased by 60% within 30 days. Uh, so, um, I got my fingers crossed that this is true. Could be good news. Oh, ready. Got anything else for us today on the agenda? I think we covered the news. Shall we hop right into the interview?Let's do it. Okay. So today we have with us a very special guest. His name is TiVo and he is a researcher and expert on special economic zones. So I'm going to bring him on to stream. Uh, Hey, TiVo. Welcome. Hello. Nice to meet you. Yeah. Nice to meet you too. How are you doing today? Excellent. Glad to hear it.Well, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, I'm not particularly an expert on special economic zones, so I'm excited to learn today. Um, so could you tell us a little bit about your background, uh, in various industries about special economic zones and then maybe eventually how you got into crypto? Sure, sure.So I'm the co-founder of a firm called the Adrian Oakville group where the only business intelligence firm that works with, um, exclusively and the Sez India. We primarily work with investors who want to put their money in the zone who want to invest in building a new zone and sort of do all of the background research necessary to guide them through that process in terms of crypto.Um, it's been more of a personal hobby of mine. I first got into crypto in 2013, uh, due to a conference. So I've been seeing sort of the, the, the different booms and busts over the years and all of that, the, the case. Um, but recently it's intersected with my professional career because it turns out that a lot of special economic zones are now trying to adopt regulatory frameworks to promote cryptocurrency, to legalize it in countries that are otherwise illegal.So it's this very fascinating trend on the regulatory. Okay. So for anyone out there who hasn't heard of special economic zones before, uh, could you just tell us what they are and what the purpose of them is? Sure. So especially economic zones are a part of a country that has its own rules and regulations separate from the rest of the country.Think like a native American reservation that is exempt from federal laws and can have a casino. If you're an American and legal cannabis. Well, sometimes governments that have a lot of very complicated rules for doing business. We'll do this with a business park or they'll do this sometimes with the whole city.Um, you've probably heard of them Hong Kong, wouldn't left Britain and rejoins China rejoined as a special economic zone with a lot of legal autonomy. Uh, Dubai is a city that has, I think 46, 47 SEZs it's just a city state of city states. Um, this is about 7,500 STDs in the world, 12,000 total, they're in 70 countries and they account for this huge percentage of the world economy, and nobody's ever heard of them, which is why they're so fascinating.Yeah, that is crazy. I had no clue that. I mean, it's, there's so many in Dubai. What would be the purpose of having so many in one small location? Sure. So in the case of Dubai, um, this is a common misconception. Dubai did not have any. So what happened is that you have this, you have this, this desert country in the middle of nowhere and all of their neighbors were politically unstable and had oil.So instead of selling oil, what they decided to do was to settle legal stability, and they outsourced the legal system to the best lawyers from the UK to the best lawyers from Singapore, they created these special economic zones for different entities. Uh, DMCC Dubai, uh, multi commodity center, uh, Dubai international financial center for different industries that had different legal systems.And because all of their neighbors were trying to pump the oil sort of during the gold rush, you know, the people who made the money, weren't the, the, the schmucks who are out there panning for gold. It was the people selling the pancakes and selling the shovels. So that's basically what Dubai did. Hmm.Fascinating. I don't know if you have an estimate, but what, uh, like what portion of the global economy or what effect, uh, of the total global economy desk Easy's play. Are you ready to be somewhat terrified? I'm ready. Okay. You're going down. Walmart. You're looking all of the plastic crap that they have.What percentage of it was made in a special economic. According to world bank figures. Uh, I'll let Ryan gets 10% about 50%. So if you're, if you're looking at the largest Sez is a special economic zone in Saudi Arabia, $1 trillion of money from the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, you know, invested in this thing.Um, the population of the special economic. You have cities with populations, 40, 50, 60 million people living in China, uh, millions of people in India, living in them. And many of the people who live in Denmark only at most vaguely aware. So what this means is that. When governments want to try some new legal sort of legal system.And I have some very interesting examples of this, uh, with something like cryptocurrency, which is highly controversial, the moment they start putting it in SEZs, it's almost like they're testing something to implement on a more widespread national level. So it was very interesting applications. So what have we seen with crypto?And Sez so far. So in 20 12, 1 of the first jurisdictions to start regulating cryptocurrencies was the Cayman enterprise city and became an islands. Now came in Ireland, already sort of top rated jurisdictions. Maybe a tax Haven has its own issues, but it's sort of like the top rated jurisdiction within the top rated jurisdiction already.Right. And they decided to start regulating crypto code. And instead of actually reducing regulation on crypto, they actually increased it. But because they did this before anyone else, it meant that all of the investors who had regulatory concerns started investing there. So, um, a lot of these, the like the browser brave and a whole bunch of these, these, these, I think coin from, uh, are all based and came in.Um, other interesting examples. It turns out that a lot of these special economic zones. Have electrical generation. So during downtime, when you know, nobody's using electricity at 3:00 AM, right? So, and if you're have a coal plant, all of that electricity is just wasted. So in the past, what they've done is literal mining, where they actually will smell to metals with the excess electricity and like literally have the metal refineries and smelter.Is there any Iran, a country or cryptocurrency is legal. We had this guy on my podcast. Um, Iran has legalized Bitcoin and its special economic zones has hold a mining. Operations is actually working with all sorts of investors and what's even crazier. They're going to start legalizing it for retail investors for companies registered on the, on the Kish island, uh, just a few weeks ago.So we're going to see a lot more of that. That's cool. So it seems like SEZs are almost like a pilot program before it goes out to the entire country. Yes. Yes. So when, when China reformed from, from socialism to capitalism in the 1980s, um, they had just had this mass famine from rapidly changing everything to communism.Where about 50 million people died of famine in China due to economic mismanagement in the fifties, for a sense of scale, the entire death toll of all of world war II, including the whole. Is 80 million. So 50 million people starving China, 80 million people die in all of world war II. Right? So worst disaster in human history, maybe second, worst after world war II.So they really did not want to just like adopt capitalism on the national level when the switch to socialism was so disruptive. So they tested it in these special economic zones. And, uh, within the first year, 60% of all foreign investors. Coming to China was coming through the SEZs. Wow. So SES, these have been around for a long time, then it's not like they're a new phenomenon non, when did they start coming about?So I've actually been doing a lot of research to this. Um, if, if that's sort of an interesting rabbit hole, but, uh, the Roman empire to give you a sense of scale, one of their enemies was the city state of roads. Um, roads is like, you know, sort of the island that's right next to Turkey. Roads had all of this massive navies and the Romans had to attack by sea, but they're Navy.These were crap. Worst of all that the fighting Carthage at this point, this is 1 66 BC. They'd been fighting Carthage at to this point for 30 years. So their manpower was totally exhausted and roads were there could have been an alternate timeline where roads unseated, Rome, and wiped out the Roman empire before it had a chance to be born.But Rhodes had one critical. It's entire government budget, which is funded by a 2% tariff on all goods going through their parts. So the Rogan's created a special economic zone with a 0% tariff, right next to roads. And in five years roads with so bankrupt that they voluntarily begged to join the Roman empire.Wow. That's a cool story. So, uh, moving back to crypto TiVo, have you consulted for any cryptocurrency projects? Um, no. Okay. So what's the typical role? Like, do you see blockchain playing a role in these STCs for the, for the companies that you do consult for? Yeah. So, um, one of the companies that we consult for, have you heard of Kronos?It sounds familiar, but I'm not familiar with the audience anyway. So most is a VC fund. The anchor investor is Peter TLF PayPal. Okay. My wife works there and you should talk to Patri Friedman. I could give you an intro. He's the guy who runs the fund is actually investing. Uh, and they have a whole bunch of famous LPs, but I don't want to get in trouble, but less well-known well-known figures.I, I think Balaji is public. So I'll, I'll say him, but what they're doing is they're actually going out and they're actually investing in sort of like the really futuristic projects that are going through. Make the cryptocurrency regulation happens. So it's sort of the invisible underpinning and you have some servers, you know, you have a registered company in the zone, you have the servers in that zone.And as long as you're not dealing with us investors, you have to deal with sec. Um, you can bring in investors from anywhere in the world and there'll be a, there'll be exempt. So they're looking at projects and in Honduras, uh, Nigeria, they've already invested in, uh, looking at other projects in Africa.Yeah, don't want to get in trouble, but a very interesting stuff. So cool. And then I saw that one of your services is information assurance where you help companies verify and secure data. What are your thoughts on the intersection between information assurance and crypto and blockchain technology? So I can't really comment too much about that, but it's actually not information assurance or I guess that's part of it.That's really the big use for blockchain, right? But it's for online company registries. Um, because if you, if you just have like some random dude who just starts like a blockchain registry, right? You, you, you, you release the software online and get a bunch of users. It's not actually tied to any legal system.So it doesn't the U S government doesn't recognize this in contract law. But if you're tied to say the government. I don't know, let's, let's just make up a country, say Nigeria or something like that. And you're all Cayman islands. Right. And you're tied indirectly because the SEZs are. Can act as a metaphorical user interface between you and the government.So you actually registering your company with the zone and the zone itself is on the blockchain. That actually creates a situation where you can implement these technologies legally in a way that normally kind of bypasses having to like change legislation, to have blockchain company registration recognized by the U S government.So very interesting ways you can hack and bypass the legal system. Hm. So turning back to regulation for a second, uh, how should the U S and I, and other sovereign countries, and maybe how, how will Sez is playing this as well? How should they handle crypto regulation? Um, I can't really speak to that simply because I'm not a, an expert on crypto regulation, but my, my own perspective is that, and this is just sort of a personal opinion, not a professional.Is that the government should create sort of sandbox environments where people can, Hey, you signed this document, you know, maybe I'm going to lose everything and you, you, you acknowledge and you just try whatever. And maybe it turns out to be stupid, but I really think that's sort of the, the approach that, um, is going to generate the most innovation.Interesting. It's like we saw that Bitcoin beach in El Salvador. Like a little test city. Uh, yeah, that makes sense. I don't know anything about it yet, but, uh, interesting project. So TiVo, you guys also provide cyber security audits to your companies who are in SEZs. Why is this particularly necessary for companies that are in special economic zones?Um, you know, it's just sort of a standard package of it services. Uh, one of our co-founders Herzon on Flores just used to be doing cybersecurity. He did cybersecurity for Virginia police. So it's just like, Hey, let's just toss that in as sort of a service we offer, but really, you know, our, the, the bulk of our services right.Is mostly due diligence. It's mostly, Hey, I want to invest in X, Y, Z zone. Um, and working with investors on that front to get into the zone. I have some interesting sort of actually examples that are quite relevant right now. Um, right now, one of the big things that's, that's, that's, that's that's going on is Belarus.The Belarus industrial park, right. Has announced this complete cryptocurrency sandbox, but you know, people, I'm sure your, your listeners, or at least a good percentage of them will know that there are massive. Uh, protests against the Bella Russian government, right? There are massive situations where the government was almost basically overthrown because it was so corrupt by the people and massive, you know, horrible police, crackdowns, horrible treatment of protestors.Right. So we're kind of like the guys you'd hire before you go to Belarus to figure it out. Hey, if you go here or if you go to some other country, um, you're going to get in trouble and all sorts of weird.so my, my next question for you TiVo is about the types of blockchain implementation that you've seen in SEZs. Is it mostly like say payment processing where you can send payments like cross borders for very cheap, or is it more adoption of private blockchains within a company? We're an investment or is it more like blockchain platforms, like a theory or Solano where you can interact with programs on a blockchain?Um, so it's, it's, it's kind of disappointing. You don't really see that many. So w if you're talking about the well established special economic zones that are already in existence, you don't actually see that many real day-to-day applications of blockchain yet. However, to the extent that it is arriving, Uh, it's much more on the payment processing side.Um, it's less that the blockchains themselves are using the, the, the, the, sorry, the special economic zones themselves are using blockchain technology and cryptocurrency. What it is is that it's more that the, uh, the, the, the, the people. Are setting up these companies in order to operate in a given region are relocating to the zones and the zones are basically bending over backwards, going really, you know, all out, uh, in order to sort of help make that happen.Hmm. Interesting, interesting example. Right. So in may of this year, two of Dubai's most longstanding special economic centers. These SEZs have been around for, you know, 40. Uh, DMCC and the IFC Dubai international financial center. Um, these zones typically stayed away from crypto. These zones very much, uh, headquarters of site, Blackstone, Warburg, Pincus type old school wall street, private equity firms, middle Eastern headquarters for these companies.And typically the zones that have done crypto, you know, the zones that have gone for. I have been kind of like the zones in Iran or the zones in Belarus. And they've been kind of the SEZs in weird place as of the last six months, the big trend that you're seeing with kind of this, this, you know, third, big bubble in the last like six years sort of coming to an end is that the zones have realized, Hey, crypto may crash and rise or whatever, but it's going to be here to stay.And if they're not sort of on the bandwidth, Uh, they're going to get left behind. So they're adopting regulatory frameworks, which on paper look like they're imposing all of these sanctions on crypto, but by actually creating this environment, um, are actually able to sort of reassure investors that these are going to be stable places to invest in.So have you seen that special economic zones that have made regulation for cryptocurrency? Have an influx of investors come to them over the past year with blockchain exploding and crypto going up. So. Yes, not only do they have an N so Cayman enterprise city has, I think it's either 200 or 250 spots.All 200 and 250 are full with a huge waiting list for any office space. Um, I spoke to a guy who ran a random textile park company in El Salvador. He rans El Salvador's biggest textile, special economic zones. You know, all they do is like make t-shirts and white rubber gloves too, and good, useful stuff.And he wakes up one day reads the news. Huh? Cool. El Salvador's, you know, adopting. It doesn't think much of it opens his inbox and has, you know, 900 emails from random people, cold emailing him to relocate to his own. And he's like, what in the world is going on? You know? And you're hearing the most crazy stuff as soon as one of these zones even announced its crypto.Um, it, th th th they get bombarded, but the problem is that these zones have no ability to identify, say, Ponzi schemes from, you know, legitimate projects. So it's, it's, they're also terrified. Uh, a lot of the ones are, are full of Ponzi scheme. It's a total, it's a total mess right now. So it sounds like countries and their citizens have a lot to gain from introducing these crypto special economic zones attracting lots of innovation.Uh, but they do have to, you know, start small work their way up, learn the valuable lessons about the Ponzis and the real projects. Um, that's cool. What would you say the most important role that crypto or blockchain plays in these special economic zone? So in one, one really interesting trend is that a lot of these zones there's like every possible imaginable industry has a zone and the level of specificity, the level of granularity think of zones.It's like a tailored legal system to target a very granular, specific industry. Right. And I'll give you an idea. I was talking to a guy who does nonwoven fabrics, things like wool or rubber gloves, plastic, blue tarp, all of that's non-woven fabrics. And I'm like, so tell me more about the textiles industry.And he got really pissed off and he's like, I'm not textiles and non-woven fabric totally different industry. And like, that's sort of the level of meekness. Right. And a lot of these zones. We're office parks, a lot of these special economic zones where like, like, you know, rows of computers, cubicles, whatever, uh, in the Philippines, all over the world.And the workers are just never coming back to the offices. It's not a two-week lockdown. It's not a six month lockdown. They're all working from home. None of them want to go back to the Cuba. Um, and now all of these zones have this infrastructure for office space, which could be adopted for crypto, could become, you know, startup incubators, and they're suddenly left scratching their heads.So I kinda think that the, these governments are slow moving. Um, I'd say that they're trying to use cryptocurrency and blockchain as sort of a replacement in half the cases. It's a replacement for anchor tenants who disappeared. And then the other half of cases, they're kind of late to the bandwagon and they're desperately trying to find their way to get in.So it's, it's generally one of two things and occasionally you have some really forward-thinking, you know, jurisdiction. You have three or four. That I actually are, but yeah, that, that, that actually sort of our foreign thing, but usually it's fear and a fear of missing out. Yeah. I can see that. Well, how big are special economic zones?W w what's the range or how can you tell where it's located? All right. So I have two sort of extreme stories. Um, there, the us has something called foreign trade zones. There's about 250 300. All they are. Is that good? The enter and exit the foreign trade zone legally haven't entered the U S so the idea is that you're building a car, you import the tires from, you know, Germany or whatever you put them onto the car and they don't have to pay the tariffs.So the us has like the most basic lowest level of Sez. They barely even count. I, I read online that in San Jose, California, when I was visiting there, then the special economic zone. So I messaged the guy and I'm like, Hey, can I visit the zone? And he's like, oh, sure. And the first bad sinus, he says, nobody's visited me in years.So he takes me to this, you know, 40 story building. Right. And I go into this building and I go up this elevator and there's this dusty little office that is, um, you know, three meters by two meters like this, like dusty, tiny one extreme. And that was the foreign trade zone. That, that, that was. Um, uh, so on the, on the largest and, um, you, you have in El Salvador the same within a few months of, of, of, uh, El Salvador announcing that they were going to Bitcoin.China announced the zone several hundred square kilometers. That's going to encompass 20% of El Salvador's coastline. So. So, if you look at these zones into the in desert countries like Saudi Arabia, or even the UAE or Oman, right. You have zones that are hundreds of square kilometers. So it's really the whole gamut in terms of population.Once again, dusty closet, uh, Chinese Ken's in population. How do you delegate, uh, especially getting an exam, like H how do you just say, like, Hey, this is the zone, this is what we're doing. So there's two ways that special economic zones, uh, come about. Um, the first is sort of, application-based think a government official with a Sharpie drawing on a map from now on this area over here will be the special economic zone.That's kind of like the China model. You know, it's the pointing at the map, the tapping, we will have economic development. Um, the other model is application-based. So that's like Columbia, where if you own say two or three square kilometers of land and meet this long checklist of requirements, you file an application and you get, um, you get special economic zone status on their land.So sometimes they're started by the government. Sometimes just started by business. Uh, we got stats that our company. One third are, are purely government. One third are purely private and one third public private partnerships. So it's almost exactly evenly divided. Um, but the extent of the private designation is pretty incredible because you have the city of Google, uh, Gurgaon and India, and they switched the names about 10 years ago.And the entire zone has private water system, private police, private fire department, private electricity, primary management, nothing is done by the government at all. And you have zones that are taking this even further in Honduras. You can even apply to have entirely privatized legal systems for all civil law.So anything that's not criminal law that's in these Honduras is Adams. That's going to be special economic. It goes to a fully privatized legal system within the zone. And it's scaring a lot of people and you know, whether or not it works out, I think is still up for debate, but they go pretty far sometimes by the way, constellation 1 million.So, wow. That's incredible. And that's super interesting. I'm really surprised. I haven't heard of that. And I'm sure that's a super interesting case study to research about, uh, have you done some research on this? Like how is it really playing out? Because I haven't heard. Okay. How how's what playing outside privatization in, in these SEZs that are doing this.Um, as far as I can tell, it's a roll of the dice. Most of the time, you're going to get a two to five and not much will happen either way. Sometimes you get a six and you get the city of Shenzen, you know, which goes from a fishing village of 60,000 to a mega city of 60 million. And like 40 years and accounts for 60% of China's investment than 70% of their things.You know, you get retarded, crazy results. One way. Sometimes you get golden triangle Sez in Myanmar. The legal autonomy for some zones enables the worst in humanity. So the triads have their own special economic zone in Laos, on the border with me and mark and they have a casino, but it's known for human trafficking.Uh, 245 women were abducted and forced into prostitution recently freed by ocean authorities in this zone, you have wildlife smuggling, um, and there's actually YouTube videos. If you look up, uh, golden triangle, uh, special economic zone on YouTube, they, they, they, they, they map mass manufacture methamphetamines.Um, they, they have, they have like lions that they like make fight and cages with each other. And. Uh, they have like all sorts of animals that they take apart for traditional medicine. So you have the worst possible and humanity and the best possible. And it's, you know, you're kind of gambling as a country in this.There's not really much of a way to predict what the results were. These are wild. One last thing from, from me is can, uh, we saw you talking about a start-up society. Can you just tell us a brief example? We don't have to go too deep into it, but what a start-up society is and how they correlate to SEZs.Sure. So I started in 2015, a nonprofit think tank called the startups and studies foundation. I left in 2017. Um, a startup society is just. Anybody who's trying to create a society to Nova. So say the country of Catalonia before it becomes a country while it's still like an independence movement is a start-up society or a special economic zone could be another type of.Gotcha. Interesting. So I have a question for you. You say the us government, uh, contracts, you to create a crypto sandbox in the country. What would you pitch to them? Ooh, good question. Um, You know, w what I would do probably, and there's just sort of, the way I am is I would do a crap ton of research, and I would find a ton of people.Who've done a lot of research. Um, and I'd go about it by interviewing about two or 300. And I know I'm not just giving you an answer like plastics, but I go back, I try to interview two or 300 business people who do cryptocurrency, um, at all sides. It's very new people, people who are sort of on the very high end of companies, very well.And I get, you know, all of their top five regulatory pain points, uh, get all the interviews for the top five regulatory pain points for 200 people. And, uh, based off of that, I try to come up with like the three D I wouldn't try to do too much. I'd just try to fix the three biggest, most common pain points to all of the interviews.And really, I think that the, the best results for these kinds of things is. You know, really ask the people involved and not try to do it in the abstract, although I'm sure that if I was like a crypto lawyer, I could just say, you know, plastics or whatever. Very cool. And those location matter when it comes to Cristo.Yes. Yes it does. And I'd say that it matters for three reasons. One, you probably are actually going to be doing to take advantage of a lot of the incentives. You actually have to be physically. So you want to be in a nice location where there's not corruption. That's really beautiful. Um, I live in Switzerland, uh, actually live 20 minutes from Lichtenstein, which is one of the, the crypto capitals of the world and maybe 30 minutes to the other direction from zoo.Right. It's such a beautiful country that that's totally white. People are coming. Even if the regulations aren't say as good as the next reason why location matters is because the regulation can change. The voters of the country can just say overnight new election comes as a coup you know, um, okay.We're just getting rid of the special economic zones and by the way, Uh, we want you to either go to jail for 15 years, we're turning all of your keys and we're taking all of your crypto, you know, so that totally can happen. And in fact, I'm sure it will happen. I'm sure. At some point the government takes there's enough crypto rich people that are there for a conference we'll just like start arresting people and demanding keys on trumped up stuff.So number one, location actually matters. Number two is, uh, you don't want, you know, to have a corruption and number three has electricity. The average cost per kilowatt hour globally as 14 cents. Um, you can get half that in some places. So if you're especially doing mining, uh, that's very valuable. However, like those zones I mentioned in Iran, you know, it's, it's, it's, they, they in fact will subsidize your electricity in some cases.Interesting. So earlier this year we saw China banned Bitcoin mining. They've basically taken control over it and issued their own central bank, digital currency. Instead, are we seeing China do any experiments in their special economic zones with crypto? Okay. Want to know something LR. This is going to blow your minds again.Are you ready please? Do. I was in 500 special economic zones in China, right? Oh, how many Chinese special economic zones are there? Run by Chinese corporations outside of. Oh, I, I it's either going to be a really high number or I'm imagining a really high number is going to be a high number. But could you say that question one more time?How many companies are they're run by the Chinese government and Chinese state run companies, Chinese special economic sounds outside of China? Well, there's about 10,000 of them worldwide and 2,500 are in China already. So that leaves about 7,500. I have no clue, maybe 2000, if it's a high number. Well, you're, you're over it, but there's 500 Chinese SEZs outside of China.And so what qualifies it as a Chinese SCC? Like a special economic zone, that's run by any Chinese company. That definition is if the usually zones have an operator, which is kind of like the country that owns the land, builds the buildings, cleans the law and whatever, if that company is Chinese, we have a, by the way, we're about to publish the world's first map of every single special economic zone on earth and took us two years of work.Um, but, but one of the data we collected was to see where all the Chinese. And it's terrifying because in some of the most extreme cases, we found Chinese SEZs outside of us military basis. So the U S has all of these overseas bases and the like, like a bunch of idiots, the U S government is, you know, Hey, we're going to go in through military imperialism, spend $2 trillion and then leave Afghanistan 20 years later, the Chinese.No we're going to do, we're going to build a happy mall right next to the U S military base and invite TGI Fridays to the shopping mall. So all the off duty soldiers will spend money on us, government money in our shopping, bubbles find like Chinese shopping miles outside of any military base in Africa, you find that there's military basis.The only connection they have to the outside world are Chinese freeways and Chinese railroads. You know, I don't think it's actually that the trends are going to shut it off. I just think it's that they're like taking all the money from the U S government basically indirectly, um, in terms of, uh, cryptocurrency, um, you know, the Chinese are always up to, uh, they really want to promote, you know, Th th the digitization of the, of, of the Yuan and promoting sort of the digital one as the one world currency that's running administered by China.So, you know, I think you're going to just see that be implemented. Um, and all of the zones, I have kind of an interesting little anecdote of this, and I don't want to mention the zone cause they're good people. I don't want to embarrass them, but one of the largest special economic zones in Africa, our team is about to do it.And we emailed them and we're like, Hey, we heard your zone splint by the Chinese and villain. No, no Chinese people here, you know, it's all Chinese characters, it's all a, we chat, pay every single star, um, uh, you know, giant Chinese flag that says, uh, uh, sort of, you know, welcome home. And, um, you have zones with names like qualling special economic zone in Georgia, you know, the country of Georgia.Hm. So I'm guessing that these countries let China have these special economic zones just for the purpose of developing their own economies as well. Yes. And you know, to be fair, I think the reason why China has done so well with the SCCs is because it's actually pretty good for, you know, the, the, the locals peaceful.Yeah. There's there's problems there. Chicanery, there are corruptions, but many of the time it's. All the men in your town suddenly get jobs that pay twice as much working for the Chinese factory, where there's been no development in a war torn country for 20 years, you know, you're going to be very supportive of China, right?They're doing what sort of, uh, America wishes it did during the cold war, but a zillion times better. And I think they learned that from the U S. Very interesting. Do you, uh, do any, like personally, do you invest in cryptos? Do you follow any projects or are you into that space at all? No comment. No, I got it.Yeah. That makes sense. Are you interested in the, in NFL? Um, okay. I think NFTs are totally stupid. The reason why is because I think intellectual property is like an outdated sort of institution. We need to be moving towards, you know, open source, copyright free. So, uh, to the extent the NFTs are, are, are.For people claiming ownership of like digital assets. I think that's like really the wrong direction. Um, however, I imagine that there's a ton of other non-trivial applications out there, so I'm not hating on those, but I am hating on, uh, what is it? Crypto kitties or whatever has.It's interesting to see that these digital assets are the first type of NFT to really get put into the mainstream, though. We did see it's real a use NFTs in a pilot program for, I think it was land deeds and Carla. And so it's really cool to see governments like catching an eye for NFTs. And it's going to be really interesting to see where it goes, because like you said, TiVo, it's not just about these digital assets or verifying like digital IP.There's a million different use cases for them. And we're only scratching the surface right now. So you said land needs and Carla. Yes, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's that's like exactly what it should be used for, right? Yeah. Yeah. I imagine it is going to be your whole identity, like in the future where you're going to have, you know, your, um, your, it is going to be tokenized, whatever your social, everything.Maybe hidden, but you know what I mean? I think that's how you can verify everything and never get lost and all that other stuff, like you said, there's a ton of, um, different use cases for entities, not just profile pictures or images like you, you know? Cause I understand the, uh, kind of thing about. But at the same time, I feel like there is a need to, uh, essentially show off on the internet flex, if you will.Like, like people will buy Rolex's and fancy cars. And with so much time that people spend on internet these days, I think it only makes sense to have a way for people to show off on the internet. Like they do. Fancy cars or other things that might not really have the tangible value that they're worth. I mean, there, there are a lot of things like that in the physical, tangible world.And, and I think it to a degree makes sense. Although silly, I don't think that the government should like regulate it or anything, but I just wish that instead of showing you. You know, so in the, in the, in the middle ages, right. Which was like a time when everything was like a special economics, right.Rights, this age of totally crazy city states. Um, so my, my other hobby outside of STC is medieval history, but in the middle east, there really was this, this, um, this attitude of like, Hey, the rich people are going to show off by like building charts and Publix works and funding the arts and funding sciences.I, and I really hate seeing Lamborghini's and Rolex's when we could be crowdfunding Elon Musk to go build a colony on the moon, or we could be like, you know, funding, like fishing fleets to get rid of all of that plastic in the ocean. So I just wish it was channeled in that direction. Yeah, no, that totally makes sense.So I saw on your website, you like to do a lot of book reviews. Uh, could you tell us maybe how you got into that? What you've been reading lately and any recommendations you might have for us here on moon or bust? Sure. So for book reviews, um, this is my personal website, this isn't my, my company, uh, just for fun.I decided I dropped out of college about five years ago and I decided that instead of going to college, I was going to read a book a week nonfiction and review it. Huh? I've stuck to it on average the last few months, has it been that. But I, I, it, it averages out to like 1.2 books a week or something like that.Um, and I mostly read and medieval history. So I've been starting in chronological order and going to the present from about 500 BC trying to read like five to 10 books per century. Um, so I met about 1200, so I've got like decades left to reach the prison because it's, but anyways, um, in terms of history books, um, this goes into special economics.I recommend a book called lost enlightenment. And what this book is about is there was this last Islamic golden civilization, you know, in central Asia during the middle ages, which, uh, basically reached like late 16 hundreds level of technology and like 1800. And they totally get wiped out by the Mongols and the region like loses like a quarter of its population goes back.So you have this situation where there's a super technologically advanced society that pops up in a place that you haven't heard of, you know, a real loss civilization, they go back. So it also tells you that, you know, technology, it's not just an upward linear line, the, the, the Italians and the Renaissance staff to pick up the torch.And it declined and it sort of stays low for a long time. Uh, so lost enlightenment is, is a good one. Um, in terms of special economic zones, another good book is on China by Henriquez Henry. Who actually negotiated a lot of the opening up of China. And it's the history of like how China used special economic zones to reform its economy, to, you know, totally change it society.And it turns out that there's this like four foot, 10, five foot five. I don't know how tall he is, but this little, tiny little guy called dunk shell ping who, everybody who nobody's. Who saved the most human lives of like anybody in the 20th century by building special economic zones and bringing free market to China and like tripling the GDP per capita, you know?Um, so that's the next one. I really like lost enlightenment, uh, sorry. Lost enlightenment on central Asia, uh, on China by Henry kitchen. And I think that the third good one is seeing like a state by James Scott, which is just a book about how, when you look at things from the perspective of statistics and government planning, it just distorts your view on everything.So hope that's not too much. I really like, no, I got those written down TiVo. How do you find time to read? So, so many books, I just listened to audio books. So I'm like just always listening to audio books every minute I have. Very cool. Uh, oh, what's that? No, sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, no. I just wanted to mention in the time that we have left a few sort of interesting crypto things, if we had time in SEZs B might be kind of interesting.So one of them, that's, that's one trend that is quite interesting is remember how earlier I mentioned and my wife, by the way, wrote a paper about this for the world free zones organization. Um, so remember how I mentioned how a lot of STDs have lost business from work from. Typically to take advantage of the regulations in an sec, what you had to do was you had to be like physically based there, like physically doing business there.And in some cases you even have to pay for the cost of the gut of a government agent to come like inspect, to make sure that you're actually in the zone, not there on paper. Some zones have decided because of work from. To start letting companies take advantage to register as like a work from home company in the zone and start taking advantages of the legal system of the zone working from home.So you could be at a laptop anywhere in the world. And if you're the right special economic zones, be taking advantage of a legal system that really like benefits your need working for. And I think that that from a legal perspective, It's kind of a loophole and who knows if it will last, but if it does last, it's going to, I think totally changed the game for companies doing all of these things that are very regulatorily difficult from a crypto perspective.Awesome. Well, if you guys want to find, find out more about T-bones work, we have his website linked in the description below. You can go check that out. Uh Teebo. If you have any closing thoughts or shout outs, you want to give, tell the audience where to connect with you. The Florida. Yes. Well, I add 100% of the people who connect to me on LinkedIn and I eventually respond to 100% of my messages.So everybody add me. And, um, I'd love to help you with any SEZs are send any books or whatever. Um, so that's the best place to find me. Uh, the company is Adrian Oakville group, um, which you have linked, I imagine. And, uh, yeah, that's. Alrighty that has been this, uh, episode of moon or bust. We hope you enjoyed it.If you did, please leave us a like, and we can get more of this content for you in the future. Uh, for now we're signing off sticker on for pre market prep. It will be linked in the chat. Uh, but thanks for tuning in. We will see you next.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Apecoin analysis -- Use cases. distribution, price predictionsCrypto market updateNFT market updateYuga labs acquire CryptoPunksAirdrop history -- Uniswap, ENS domains,Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Episode Summary:On today's Moon Or Bust:Solana ShutdownPhantom Wallet InterviewOpenSea Employee NFT Crisis tweet$50 Billion Bitcoin Transaction from a single entityiPhone costs 0.24 ETHMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyCoins talked about in the show today:Solana, Ethereum, REN, Tezos(XZT)Guests:CEO of Phantom Wallet Brandon Resources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Today's Cryptocurrency Prices by Market CapCheck Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Replay episode originally published on Jan 24, 2022Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube ChannelEpisode Summary:Market UpdateStar Atlas CEO Interview Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch HereJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zingSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Feel like you aren't getting anywhere with your current trading strategies? Ready to dive into some new concepts to grow your account?This Saturday( September 11), we're bringing together the BEST trading educators we know for a full day of education to help YOU become a better trader.Register here for FREEEpisode Summary:On today's Moon Or Bust: EsketitUniswap and Coinbase SEC TroubleMacro trends in CryptoDr. Don Basile InterviewMoon or BustMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Dr. Donald Basile · CEO at Monsoon Blockchain 38:00Resources:Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:What Biden's Executive Order Means for #Cryptohttps://twitter.com/davidgokhshtein interviewMarket update #BTC #ETH #NFTs #BAYCCrypto market updateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

"I think of Bitcoin as the Microsoft when we were going into the software world." "Bitcoin will be $250,000 by the end of 2022, early 2023." Tim Draper - Keynote Speech at Benzinga Crypto Trading FestivalTim Draper joined the Benzinga Crypto Trading Festival on August 31 2021 to talk about how he sees the future of cryptocurrency. How Defi will change the Fiat currency based relationships between people and the governments.This is a replay of that speech. Key Take Aways:1 in 3 women in US have crypto wallets and they dominate the retail shopping world. Businesses will have to switch to cryptocurency.World economy will double of triple as cryptocurrency becomes more prevalent.Defi, Bitcoin and NFTs will lead the way to other technologies just like Microsoft started the software world by going Open Source.Listen to other Tim Draper Interviews on Benzinga Podcasts hereCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyJOIN THE ALL-NEW BENZINGA TRADING SCHOOL NOW & SAVE over 70% OFF the fully-loaded yearly membership with a FREE LAPTOP! PRICED AT $4000, NOW JUST $1,297 UNTIL MIDNIGHT! CLICK HEREHAVE QUESTIONS? EMAIL rodrigocerda@benzinga.com or CALL +1 313-960-4061Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Interview with former Microsoft employee, Adam HollanderBored Ape Yacht Club BAYC NFTs- Crypto market updateMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Festival Aug 31 - Sept 1 (Virtual)Don't wait for $BTC to reach 100k before jumping in. Grab a FREE ticket hereBenzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:On today's Moon Or Bust: Getting Started With Solana & Dogepalooza FestivalSpecifically:How to invest in SolanaWallets to useMango MarketsDogepalooza FestivalMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Kiernan FitzsimonsResources:HOW HIGH CAN SOLANA GO?Dogepalooza SadiesupaflyResources:EXCLUSIVE: Dogepalooza Names New Musical Acts, Dancing Doge, Breakdancing Competition And MoreMoon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Interview with Benzinga's Crypto Reporters Chris Katje and Justin Roberti! Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Enroll now to Benzinga Trading SchoolNow accepting students for September classes!Get 20% off Benzinga PRO https://benzinga.grsm.io/youtube20Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:Cosmos Team:https://twitter.com/cosmoshttps://twitter.com/fadeevhttps://twitter.com/StarportHQMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyMoon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Parallel Finance Founder Interview Moon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Enroll now to Benzinga Trading School Now accepting students for September classes!Get 20% off Benzinga PRO https://benzinga.grsm.io/youtube20Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:ETH Burn is HOTStablecoin FaceoffBackd InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyMoon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Vitalik's Speech at ETHDenverMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Benzinga Trading School :Enroll now and get 50% off admission: https://bit.ly/3eQCVgyGet 20% off Benzinga PRO https://benzinga.grsm.io/youtube20Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:Is Logan a Pengu Millionaire?Crypto Markets UpdateStablecoin FaceoffEverRise InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Lord TJ & Wasso @EverRise Moon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market UpdateDavid Bianchi Interview on NFTsMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Benzinga Trading School :Enroll now and get 50% off admission: https://bit.ly/3eQCVgyGet 20% off Benzinga PRO https://benzinga.grsm.io/youtube20Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:PolyNetwork HackMarket UpdateAxie Infinity Co-Founder InterviewMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Psycheout - Aleksander | Axie Infinity https://twitter.com/Psycheout86 15:00Moon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to our Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Episode Summary:Market UpdateCo-Founder of Holochain Arthur BrockMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyFor video and charts of this podcast please visit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INjD-A2rusoMeet The Hosts:Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here:Check Out All Benzinga Crypto News HereGet Moon or Bust Crypto Merch Here Join the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Benzinga Crypto Youtube Channel Benzinga Trading School :Enroll now and get 50% off admission: https://bit.ly/3eQCVgyGet 20% off Benzinga PRO https://benzinga.grsm.io/youtube20Check Out Other Benzinga Podcasts Here: https://www.benzinga.com/podcastsCheck Out All Benzinga Crypto News Here: https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyEpisode Summary:Infrastructure bill Market UpdateDogebeans Coffee InterviewCryptocurrency FaceoffMoon or Bust - To Play Moon or Bust go to https://www.benzinga.com/markets/cryptocurrencyGuests:Dogebeans Coffee https://twitter.com/dogebeans 21:00Resources:U.S. Treasury Secretary Yellen Says Cryptocurrency Amendment In Senate Infrastructure Bill 'Will Make Meaningful Progress On Tax Evasion'Moon or Bust Crypto Merch: https://swag.benzinga.com/collections/moon-or-bustJoin the Telegram: https://t.me/moonorbustBZ for 25% of Moon or Bust Podcast swag.Claim 1000 ZING airdrop: https://www.benzinga.com/zing Meet The Hosts:Brian MoirSolidity and React Developer | Blockchain Enthusiast | Decentralized Internet Advocate | Crypto investor since 2012https://twitter.com/moirbrian Logan RossBlockchain Analyst @ Benzinga | President @ Wolverine Blockchain | Crypto investor and educator since 2016https://twitter.com/logannrossRyan McNamaraBought sub $90 ETH during the bear market | Liquidated on ByBit | Was into DeFi before it was cool | Ran ASIC mining operation in 2016 (sorry planet Earth) | $UNI Bag Holderhttps://twitter.com/ryan15mcnamaraDisclaimer: All of the information, material, and/or content contained in this program is for informational purposes only. Investing in stocks, options, and futures is risky and not suitable for all investors. Please consult your own independent financial adviser before making any investment decisions.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/moon-or-bust/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy