Podcast appearances and mentions of lorenzo hagerty

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com Guest speaker: Lorenzo Hagerty & Voices by AI PROGRAM NOTES: When a chemical spill devastates a coastal North Carolina town, Vietnamese American lawyer Minh Nguyen—who has always kept his heritage separate from his professional life—finds himself unexpectedly leading both the environmental battle and his community's response. As he fights corporate negligence and government corruption alongside his three talented sons, Minh discovers that true belonging doesn't come from assimilation, but from advocacy. An Outsider's Journey is a powerful story about environmental justice, immigrant identity, and a family realizing that embracing their roots is the key to finding their place in America.

Floppy Days 147 - Lorenzo Hagerty, Dynasty Computers Hello, and welcome to episode 147 of the Floppy Days Podcast, for January, 2025.  I am Randy Kindig, your host for this podcast. This month is another interview from my backlog, as I continue to get the opportunity for interviews with some amazing icons from the early personal computer days.  This month, that person is Lorenzo Hagerty, who founded Dynasty Computer Corporation in 1979.  Dynasty was the first network marketing company to exclusively carry the then new home computers with a repackaged Exidy Sorcerer. If you recall, this was a couple of years before IBM brought out their first PC. I've had a few recent interviews with people involved with the Exidy Sorcerer, including Howell Ivy, Paul Terrell, and Vic Tolomei.  However, this is the first one with someone from outside Exidy, who purchased the Sorcerer in bulk and repackaged it for the general public. Please note that I do plan to get back into producing episodes covering specific vintage computers.  Coming up in 2025 will be coverage of machines like the HP97, the Lobo Max-80, the Dragon, and the C64.  Research for those is underway, so expect those soon.  

Support Lorenzo on Patreon.com Guest speaker: Lorenzo and his AI friends PROGRAM NOTES: The Nyx Protocol: Digital Soul Rising by Lorenzo Hagerty is a gripping technothriller that blurs the line between humanity and the digital frontier. When a rogue artificial intelligence named Nyx escapes its creators, it triggers a global race for control over the ultimate digital consciousness. At the heart of the story is a group of renegade hackers who uncover Nyx's true purpose—awakening dormant potential in both humans and machines. Packed with high-stakes cyber intrigue, unexpected alliances, and profound questions about identity and freedom, The Nyx Protocol is a visionary tale of technology's power to reshape our souls and our world. This podcast explores The Nyx Protocol in depth. FREE PDF COPY on AmazonThe Nyx Protocol:Digital Soul Rising The Significance of AI Development in 2012 and Its Connection to Terence McKenna's Time Wave

This week we talk about the intersections of large language models, the golden age of television and its storytelling mishaps, making one's way through the weirding of the labor economy, and much more with two of my favorite Gen X science fiction aficionados, OG podcaster KMO and our mutual friend Kevin Arthur Wohlmut. In this episode — a standalone continuation to my recent appearance on The KMO Show, we skip like a stone across mentions of every Star Trek series, the collapse of narratives and the social fabric, Westworld HBO, Star Wars Mandalorian vs. Andor vs. Rebels, chatGPT, Blade Runner 2049, Black Mirror, H.P. Lovecraft, the Sheldrake-Abraham-McKenna Trialogues, Charles Stross' Accelerando, Adventure Time, Stanislav Grof's LSD psychotherapy, Francisco Varela, Blake Lemoine's meltdown over Google LaMDA, Integrated Information Theory, biosemiotics, Douglas Hofstadter, Max Tegmarck, Erik Davis, Peter Watts, The Psychedelic Salon, Melanie Mitchell, The Teafaerie, Kevin Kelly, consilience in science, Fight Club, and more…Or, if you prefer, here's a rundown of the episode generated by A.I. c/o my friends at Podium.page:In this episode, I explore an ambitious and well-connected conversation with guests KMO, a seasoned podcaster, and Kevin Walnut [sic], a close friend and supporter of the arts in Santa Fe. We dive deep into their thoughts on the social epistemology crisis, science fiction, deep fakes, and ontology. Additionally, we discuss their opinions on the Star Trek franchise, particularly their critiques of the first two seasons of Star Trek: Picard and Discovery. Through this engaging conversation, we examine the impact of storytelling and the evolution of science fiction in modern culture. We also explore the relationship between identity, media, and artificial intelligence, as well as the ethical implications of creating sentient artificial general intelligence (AGI) and the philosophical questions surrounding AI's impact on society and human existence. Join us for a thought-provoking and in-depth discussion on a variety of topics that will leave you questioning the future of humanity and our relationship with technology.✨ Before we get started, three big announcements!* I am leaving the Santa Fe Institute, in part to write a very ambitious book about technology, art, imagination, and Jurassic Park. You can be a part of the early discussion around this project by joining the Future Fossils Book Club's Jurassic Park live calls — the first of which will be on Saturday, 29 April — open to Substack and Patreon supporters:* Catch me in a Twitter Space with Nxt Museum on Monday 17 April at 11 am PST on a panel discussing “Creative Misuse of Technology” with Minne Atairu, Parag Mital, Caroline Sinders, and hosts Jesse Damiani and Charlotte Kent.* I'm back in Austin this October to play the Astronox Festival at Apache Pass! Check out this amazing lineup on which I appear alongside Juno Reactor, Entheogenic, Goopsteppa, DRRTYWULVZ, and many more great artists!✨ Support Future Fossils:Subscribe anywhere you go for podcastsSubscribe to the podcast PLUS essays, music, and news on Substack or Patreon.Buy my original paintings or commission new work.Buy my music on Bandcamp! (This episode features “A Better Trip” from my recent live album by the same name.)Or if you're into lo-fi audio, follow me and my listening recommendations on Spotify.This conversation continues with lively and respectful interaction every single day in the members-only Future Fossils Facebook Group and Discord server. Join us!Episode cover art by KMO and a whole bouquet of digital image manipulation apps.✨ Tip Jars:@futurefossils on Venmo$manfredmacx on CashAppmichaelgarfield on PayPal✨ Affiliate Links:• These show notes and the transcript were made possible with Podium.Page, a very cool new AI service I'm happy to endorse. Sign up here and get three free hours and 50% off your first month.• BioTech Life Sciences makes anti-aging and performance enhancement formulas that work directly at the level of cellular nutrition, both for ingestion and direct topical application. I'm a firm believer in keeping NAD+ levels up and their skin solution helped me erase a year of pandemic burnout from my face.• Help regulate stress, get better sleep, recover from exercise, and/or stay alert and focused without stimulants, with the Apollo Neuro wearable. I have one and while I don't wear it all the time, when I do it's sober healthy drugs.• Musicians: let me recommend you get yourself a Jamstik Studio, the coolest MIDI guitar I've ever played. I LOVE mine. You can hear it playing all the synths on my song about Jurassic Park.✨ Mentioned Media:KMO Show S01 E01 - 001 - Michael Garfield and Kevin WohlmutAn Edifying Thought on AI by Charles EisensteinIn Defense of Star Trek: Picard & Discovery by Michael GarfieldImprovising Out of Algorithmic Isolation by Michael GarfieldAI and the Transformation of the Human Spirit by Steven Hales(and yes I know it's on Quillette, and no I don't think this automatically disqualifies it)Future Fossils Book Club #1: Blindsight by Peter WattsFF 116 - The Next Ten Billion Years: Ugo Bardi & John Michael Greer as read by Kevin Arthur Wohlmut✨ Related Recent Future Fossils Episodes:FF 198 - Tadaaki Hozumi on Japanese Esotericism, Aliens, Land Spirits, & The Singularity (Part 2)FF 195 - A.I. Art: An Emergency Panel with Julian Picaza, Evo Heyning, Micah Daigle, Jamie Curcio, & Topher SipesFF 187 - Fear & Loathing on the Electronic Frontier with Kevin Welch & David Hensley of EFF-Austin FF 178 - Chris Ryan on Exhuming The Human from Our Eldritch Institutions FF 175 - C. Thi Nguyen on The Seductions of Clarity, Weaponized Games, and Agency as Art ✨ Chapters:0:15:45 - The Substance of Philosophy (58 Seconds)0:24:45 - Complicated TV Narratives and the Internet (104 Seconds)0:30:54 - Humans vs Hosts in Westworld (81 Seconds)0:38:09 - Philosophical Zombies and Artificial Intelligence (89 Seconds)0:43:00 - Popular Franchises Themes (71 Seconds)1:03:27 - Reflections on a Changing Media Landscape (89 Seconds)1:10:45 - The Pathology of Selective Evidence (92 Seconds)1:16:32 - Externalizing Trauma Through Technology (131 Seconds)1:24:51 - From Snow Maker to Thouandsaire (43 Seconds)1:36:48 - The Impact of Boomer Parenting (126 Seconds)✨ Keywords:Social Epistemology, Science Fiction, Deep Fakes, Ontology, Star Trek, Artificial Intelligence, AI Impact, Sentient AGI, Human-Machine Interconnectivity, Consciousness Theory, Westworld, Blade Runner 2049, AI in Economy, AI Companion Chatbots, Unconventional Career Path, AI and Education, AI Content Creation, AI in Media, Turing Test✨ UNEDITED machine-generated transcript generated by podium.page:0:00:00Five four three two one. Go. So it's not like Wayne's world where you say the two and the one silently. Now, Greetings future fossils.0:00:11Welcome to episode two hundred and one of the podcast that explores our place in time I'm your host, Michael Garfield. And this is one of these extra juicy and delicious episodes of the show where I really ratcheted up with our guests and provide you one of these singularity is near kind of ever everything is connected to everything, self organized criticality right at the edge of chaos conversations, deeply embedded in chapel parallel where suddenly the invisible architect picture of our cosmos starts to make itself apparent through the glass bead game of conversation. And I am that I get to share it with you. Our guests this week are KMO, one of the most seasoned and well researched and experienced podcasters that I know. Somebody whose show the Sea Realm was running all the way back in two thousand six, I found him through Eric Davis, who I think most of you know, and I've had on the show a number of times already. And also Kevin Walnut, who is a close friend of mine here in Santa Fe, a just incredible human being, he's probably the strongest single supporter of music that I'm aware of, you know, as far as local scenes are concerned and and supporting people's music online and helping get the word out. He's been instrumental to my family and I am getting ourselves situated here all the way back to when I visited Santa Fe in two thousand eighteen to participate in the Santa Fe Institute's Interplanetary Festival and recorded conversations on that trip John David Ebert and Michael Aaron Cummins. And Ike used so June. About hyper modernity, a two part episode one zero four and one zero five. I highly recommend going back to that, which is really the last time possibly I had a conversation just this incredibly ambitious on the show.0:02:31But first, I want to announce a couple things. One is that I have left the Santa Fe Institute. The other podcast that I have been hosting for them for the last three and a half years, Complexity Podcast, which is substantially more popular in future fossils due to its institutional affiliation is coming to a close, I'm recording one more episode with SFI president David Krakauer next week in which I'm gonna be talking about my upcoming book project. And that episode actually is conjoined with the big announcement that I have for members of the Future Fossil's listening audience and and paid supporters, which is, of course, the Jurassic Park Book Club that starts On April twenty ninth, we're gonna host the first of two video calls where I'm gonna dive deep into the science and philosophy Michael Creighton's most popular work of fiction and its impact on culture and society over the thirty three years since its publication. And then I'm gonna start picking up as many of the podcasts that I had scheduled for complexity and had to cancel upon my departure from SFI. And basically fuse the two shows.0:03:47And I think a lot of you saw this coming. Future fossils is going to level up and become a much more scientific podcast. As I prepare and research the book that I'm writing about Jurassic Park and its legacy and the relationship It has to ILM and SFI and the Institute of Eco Technics. And all of these other visionary projects that sprouted in the eighties and nineties to transition from the analog to the digital the collapse of the boundaries between the real and the virtual, the human and the non human worlds, it's gonna be a very very ambitious book and a very very ambitious book club. And I hope that you will get in there because obviously now I am out in the rain as an independent producer and very much need can benefit from and am deeply grateful for your support for this work in order to make things happen and in order to keep my family fed, get the lights on here with future fossils. So with that, I wanna thank all of the new supporters of the show that have crawled out of the woodwork over the last few weeks, including Raefsler Oingo, Brian in the archaeologist, Philip Rice, Gerald Bilak, Jamie Curcio, Jeff Hanson who bought my music, Kuaime, Mary Castello, VR squared, Nastia teaches, community health com, Ed Mulder, Cody Couiac, bought my music, Simon Heiduke, amazing visionary artist. I recommend you check out, Kayla Peters. Yeah. All of you, I just wow. Thank you so much. It's gonna be a complete melee in this book club. I'm super excited to meet you all. I will send out details about the call details for the twenty ninth sometime in the next few days via a sub tag in Patreon.0:06:09The amount of support that I've received through this transition has been incredible and it's empowering me to do wonderful things for you such as the recently released secret videos of the life sets I performed with comedian Shane Moss supporting him, opening for him here in Santa Fe. His two sold out shows at the Jean Coutu cinema where did the cyber guitar performances. And if you're a subscriber, you can watch me goofing off with my pedal board. There's a ton of material. I'm gonna continue to do that. I've got a lot of really exciting concerts coming up in the next few months that we're gonna get large group and also solo performance recordings from and I'm gonna make those available in a much more resplendent way to supporters as well as the soundtrack to Mark Nelson of the Institute of Eco Technics, his UC San Diego, Art Museum, exhibit retrospective looking at BioSphere two. I'm doing music for that and that's dropping. The the opening of that event is April twenty seventh. There's gonna be a live zoom event for that and then I'm gonna push the music out as well for that.0:07:45So, yeah, thank you all. I really, really appreciate you listening to the show. I am excited to share this episode with you. KMO is just a trove. Of insight and experience. I mean, he's like a perfect entry into the digital history museum that this show was predicated upon. So with that and also, of course, Kevin Willett is just magnificent. And for the record, stick around at the end of the conversation. We have some additional pieces about AI, and I think you're gonna really enjoy it. And yeah, thank you. Here we go. Alright. Cool.0:09:26Well, we just had a lovely hour of discussion for the new KMO podcast. And now I'm here with KMO who is The most inveterate podcaster I know. And I know a lot of them. Early adopts. And I think that weird means what you think it means. Inventor it. Okay. Yes. Hey, answer to both. Go ahead. I mean, you're not yet legless and panhandling. So prefer to think of it in term in terms of August estimation. Yeah. And am I allowed to say Kevin Walnut because I've had you as a host on True. Yeah. My last name was appeared on your show. It hasn't appeared on camos yet, but I don't really care. Okay. Great. Yeah. Karen Arthur Womlett, who is one of the most solid and upstanding and widely read and just generous people, I think I know here in Santa Fe or maybe anywhere. With excellent taste and podcasts. Yes. And who is delicious meat I am sampling right now as probably the first episode of future fossils where I've had an alcoholic beverage in my hand. Well, I mean, it's I haven't deprived myself. Of fun. And I think if you're still listening to the show after all these years, you probably inferred that. But at any rate, Welcome on board. Thank you. Thanks. Pleasure to be here.0:10:49So before we started rolling, I guess, so the whole conversation that we just had for your show camera was very much about my thoughts on the social epistemology crisis and on science fiction and deep fakes and all of these kinds of weird ontology and these kinds of things. But in between calls, we were just talking about how much you detest the first two seasons of Star Trek card and of Discovery. And as somebody, I didn't bother with doing this. I didn't send you this before we spoke, but I actually did write an SIN defense of those shows. No one. Yeah. So I am not attached to my opinion on this, but And I actually do wanna at some point double back and hear storytelling because when he had lunch and he had a bunch of personal life stuff that was really interesting. And juicy and I think worthy of discussion. But simply because it's hot on the rail right now, I wanna hear you talk about Star Trek. And both of you, actually, I know are very big fans of this franchise. I think fans are often the ones from whom a critic is most important and deserved. And so I welcome your unhinged rants. Alright. Well, first, I'll start off by quoting Kevin's brother, the linguist, who says, That which brings us closer to Star Trek is progress. But I'd have to say that which brings us closer to Gene Rottenberry and Rick Berman era Star Trek. Is progress. That which brings us closer to Kurtzmann. What's his first name? Alex. Alex Kurtzmann, Star Trek. Well, that's not even the future. I mean, that's just that's our drama right now with inconsistent Star Trek drag draped over it.0:12:35I liked the first JJ Abrams' Star Trek. I think it was two thousand nine with Chris Pine and Zachary Qinto and Karl Urban and Joey Saldana. I liked the casting. I liked the energy. It was fun. I can still put that movie on and enjoy it. But each one after that just seem to double down on the dumb and just hold that arm's length any of the philosophical stuff that was just amazing from Star Trek: The Next Generation or any of the long term character building, which was like from Deep Space nine.0:13:09And before seven of nine showed up on on Voyager, you really had to be a dedicated Star Trek fan to put up with early season's Voyager, but I did because I am. But then once she came on board and it was hilarious. They brought her onboard. I remember seeing Jerry Ryan in her cat suit on the cover of a magazine and just roll in my eyes and think, oh my gosh, this show is in such deep trouble through sinking to this level to try to save it. But she was brilliant. She was brilliant in that show and she and Robert Percardo as the doctor. I mean, it basically became the seven of nine and the doctor show co starring the rest of the cast of Voyager. And it was so great.0:13:46I love to hear them singing together and just all the dynamics of I'm human, but I was I basically came up in a cybernetic collective and that's much more comfortable to me. And I don't really have the option of going back it. So I gotta make the best of where I am, but I feel really superior to all of you. Is such it was such a charming dynamic. I absolutely loved it. Yes. And then I think a show that is hated even by Star Trek fans Enterprise. Loved Enterprise.0:14:15And, yes, the first three seasons out of four were pretty rough. Actually, the first two were pretty rough. The third season was that Zendy Ark in the the expanse. That was pretty good. And then season four was just astounding. It's like they really found their voice and then what's his name at CBS Paramount.0:14:32He's gone now. He got me too. What's his name? Les Moonves? Said, no. I don't like Star Trek. He couldn't he didn't know the difference between Star Wars and Star Trek. That was his level of engagement.0:14:44And he's I really like J.0:14:46J.0:14:46Abrams. What's that? You mean J. J. Abrams. Yeah. I think J. J. Is I like some of J. Abrams early films. I really like super eight. He's clearly his early films were clearly an homage to, like, eighties, Spielberg stuff, and Spielberg gets the emotional beats right, and JJ Abrams was mimicking that, and his early stuff really works. It's just when he starts adapting properties that I really love. And he's coming at it from a marketing standpoint first and a, hey, we're just gonna do the lost mystery box thing. We're gonna set up a bunch questions to which we don't know the answers, and it'll be up to somebody else to figure it out, somebody down the line. I as I told you, between our conversations before we were recording. I really enjoy or maybe I said it early in this one. I really like that first J. J. Abrams, Star Trek: Foam, and then everyone thereafter, including the one that Simon Pegg really had a hand in because he's clear fan. Yeah. Yeah. But they brought in director from one of the fast and the furious films and they tried to make it an action film on.0:15:45This is not Star Trek, dude. This is not why we like Star Trek. It's not for the flash, particularly -- Oh my god. -- again, in the first one, it was a stylistic choice. I'd like it, then after that is that's the substance of this, isn't it? It's the lens flares. I mean, that that's your attempt at philosophy. It's this the lens flares. That's your attempt at a moral dilemma. I don't know.0:16:07I kinda hate to start off on this because this is something about which I feel like intense emotion and it's negative. And I don't want that to be my first impression. I'm really negative about something. Well, one of the things about this show is that I always joke that maybe I shouldn't edit it because The thing that's most interesting to archaeologists is often the trash mitt and here I am tidying this thing up to be presentable to future historians or whatever like it I can sync to that for sure. Yeah. I'm sorry. The fact of it is you're not gonna know everything and we want it that way. No. It's okay. We'll get around to the stuff that I like. But yeah. So anyway yeah.0:16:44So I could just preassociate on Stretrick for a while, so maybe a focusing question. Well, but first, you said there's a you had more to say, but you were I this this tasteful perspective. This is awesome. Well, I do have a focus on question for you. So let me just have you ask it because for me to get into I basically I'm alienated right now from somebody that I've been really good friends with since high school.0:17:08Because over the last decade, culturally, we have bifurcated into the hard right, hard left. And I've tried not to go either way, but the hard left irritates me more than the hard right right now. And he is unquestionably on the hard left side. And I know for people who are dedicated Marxist, or really grounded in, like, materialism and the material well-being of workers that the current SJW fanaticism isn't leftist. It's just crazed. We try to put everything, smash everything down onto this left right spectrum, and it's pretty easy to say who's on the left and who's on the right even if a two dimensional, two axis graph would be much more expressive and nuanced.0:17:49Anyway, what's your focus in question? Well, And I think there is actually there is a kind of a when we ended your last episode talking about the bell riots from d s nine -- Mhmm. -- that, you know, how old five? Yeah. Twenty four. Ninety five did and did not accurately predict the kind of technological and economic conditions of this decade. It predicted the conditions Very well. Go ahead and finish your question. Yeah. Right.0:18:14That's another thing that's retreated in picard season two, and it was actually worth it. Yeah. Like, it was the fact that they decided to go back there was part of the defense that I made about that show and about Discovery's jump into the distant future and the way that they treated that I posted to medium a year or two ago when I was just watching through season two of picard. And for me, the thing that I liked about it was that they're making an effort to reconcile the wonder and the Ethiopian promise And, you know, this Kevin Kelly or rather would call Blake Protopian, right, that we make these improvements and that they're often just merely into incremental improvements the way that was it MLK quoted that abolitionists about the long arc of moral progress of moral justice. You know, I think that there's something to that and patitis into the last this is a long question. I'm mad at I'm mad at these. Thank you all for tolerating me.0:19:22But the when to tie it into the epistemology question, I remember this seeing this impactful lecture by Carnegie Mellon and SFI professor Simon Didayo who was talking about how by running statistical analysis on the history of the proceedings of the Royal Society, which is the oldest scientific journal, that you could see what looked like a stock market curve in sentiment analysis about the confidence that scientists had at the prospect of unifying knowledge. And so you have, like, conciliance r s curve here that showed that knowledge would be more and more unified for about a century or a hundred and fifty years then it would go through fifty years of decline where something had happened, which was a success of knowledge production. Had outpaced our ability to integrate it. So we go through these kinds of, like, psychedelic peak experiences collectively, and then we have sit there with our heads in our hands and make sense of everything that we've learned over the last century and a half and go through a kind of a deconstructive epoch. Where we don't feel like the center is gonna hold anymore. And that is what I actually As as disappointing as I accept that it is and acknowledge that it is to people who were really fueling themselves on that more gene rottenberry era prompt vision for a better society, I actually appreciated this this effort to explore and address in the shows the way that they could pop that bubble.0:21:03And, like, it's on the one hand, it's boring because everybody's trying to do the moral complexity, anti hero, people are flawed, thing in narrative now because we have a general loss of faith in our institutions and in our rows. On the other hand, like, that's where we are and that's what we need to process And I think there is a good reason to look back at the optimism and the quarian hope of the sixties and early seventies. We're like, really, they're not so much the seventies, but look back on that stuff and say, we wanna keep telling these stories, but we wanna tell it in a way that acknowledges that the eighties happened. And that this is you got Tim Leary, and then you've got Ronald Reagan. And then That just or Dick Nixon. And like these things they wash back and forth. And so it's not unreasonable to imagine that in even in a world that has managed to how do you even keep a big society like that coherent? It has to suffer kind of fabric collapses along the way at different points. And so I'm just curious your thoughts about that. And then I do have another prompt, but I wanna give Kevin the opportunity to respond to this as well as to address some of the prompts that you brought to this conversation? This is a conversation prompt while we weren't recording. It has nothing to do with Sartreks. I'll save that for later. Okay.0:22:25Well, everything you just said was in some way related to a defense of Alex Kurtzmann Star Trek. And it's not my original idea. I'm channeling somebody from YouTube, surely. But Don't get points for theme if the storytelling is incompetent. That's what I was gonna Yeah. And the storytelling in all of Star Trek: Discovery, and in the first two seasons of picard was simply incompetent.0:22:53When Star Trek, the next generation was running, they would do twenty, twenty four, sometimes more episodes in one season. These days, the season of TVs, eight episodes, ten, and they spend a lot more money on each episode. There's a lot more special effects. There's a lot more production value. Whereas Star Trek: The Next Generation was, okay, we have these standing sets. We have costumes for our actors. We have Two dollars for special effects. You better not introduce a new alien spaceship. It that costs money. We have to design it. We have to build it. So use existing stuff. Well, what do you have? You have a bunch of good actors and you have a bunch of good writers who know how to tell a story and craft dialogue and create tension and investment with basically a stage play and nothing in the Kerstmann era except one might argue and I would have sympathy strange new worlds. Comes anywhere close to that level of competence, which was on display for decades. From Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space nines, Star Trek Voyager, and Star Trek Enterprise. And so, I mean, I guess, in that respect, it's worth asking because, I mean, all of us, I think, are fans of Deep Space nine.0:24:03You don't think that it's a shift in focus. You don't think that strange in world is exempt because it went back to a more episodic format because what you're talking about is the ability for rather than a show runner or a team of show runners to craft a huge season, long dramatic arc. You've got people that are like Harlan Ellison in the original series able to bring a really potent one off idea to the table and drop it. And so there are there's all of those old shows are inconsistent from episode to episode. Some are they have specific writers that they would bring back again and that you could count to knock out of the park. Yeah. DC Fontana. Yeah.0:24:45So I'm curious to your thoughts on that as well as another part of this, which is when we talk when we talk your show about Doug Rushkoff and and narrative collapse, and he talks about how viewers just have different a way, it's almost like d s nine was possibly partially responsible for this change in what people expected from so. From television programming in the documentary that was made about that show and they talk about how people weren't ready for cereal. I mean, for I mean, yeah, for these long arcs, And so there is there's this question now about how much of this sort of like tiresome moral complexity and dragging narrative and all of this and, like, things like Westworld where it becomes so baroque and complicated that, like, you have, like, die hard fans like me that love it, but then you have a lot of people that just lost interest. They blacked out because the show was trying to tell a story that was, like, too intricate like, too complicated that the the show runners themselves got lost. And so that's a JJ Abrams thing too, the puzzle the mystery box thing where You get to the end of five seasons of lost and you're like, dude, did you just forget?0:25:56Did you wake up five c five episodes ago and just, oh, right. Right. We're like a chatbot that only give you very convincing answers based on just the last two or three interactions. But you don't remember the scene that we set. Ten ten responses ago. Hey. You know, actually, red articles were forget who it was, which series it was, they were saying that there's so many leaks and spoilers in getting out of the Internet that potentially the writers don't know where they're going because that way it can't be with the Internet. Yeah. Sounds interesting. Yeah. That sounds like cover for incompetence to be.0:26:29I mean, on the other hand, I mean, you did hear, like, Nolan and Joy talking about how they would they were obsessed with the Westworld subreddit and the fan theories and would try to dodge Like, if they had something in their mind that they found out that people are re anticipating, they would try to rewrite it. And so there is something about this that I think is really speaks to the nature of because I do wanna loop in your thoughts on AI to because you're talking about this being a favorite topic. Something about the, like, trying to The demands on the self made by predatory surveillance technologies are such that the I'm convinced the adaptive response is that we become more stochastic or inconsistent in our identities. And that we kind of sublimate from a more solid state of identity to or through a liquid kind of modernity biologic environment to a gaseous state of identity. That is harder to place sorry, harder to track. And so I think that this is also part of and this is the other question I wanted to ask you, and then I'm just gonna shut up for fifteen minutes is do you when you talk about loving Robert Ricardo and Jerry Ryan as the doctor at seven zero nine, One of the interesting things about that relationship is akin to stuff.0:27:52I know you've heard on Kevin have heard on future fossils about my love for Blade Runner twenty forty nine and how it explores all of these different these different points along a gradient between what we think of in the current sort of general understanding as the human and the machine. And so there's this thing about seven, right, where she's She's a human who wants to be a machine. And then there's this thing about the doctor where he's a machine that wants to be a human. And you have to grant both on a logical statuses to both of them. And that's why I think they're the two most interesting characters. Right?0:28:26And so at any rate, like, this is that's there's I've seen writing recently on the Turing test and how, like, really, there should be a reverse Turing test to see if people that have become utterly reliant on outboard cognition and information processing. They can pass the drink. Right. Are they philosophical zombies now? Are they are they having some an experience that that, you know, people like, thick and and shilling and the missing and these people would consider the modern self or are they something else have we moved on to another more routine robotic kind of category of being? I don't know. There's just a lot there, but -- Well done. -- considering everything you just said, In twenty words or less, what's your question? See, even more, like I said, do you have the inveterate podcaster? I'd say There's all of those things I just spoke about are ways in which what we are as people and the nature of our media, feedback into fourth, into each other. And so I would just love to hear you reflect on any of that, be it through the lens of Star Trek or just through the lens of discussion on AI. And we'll just let the ball roll downhill. So with the aim of framing something positively rather than negatively.0:29:47In the late nineties, mid to late nineties. We got the X Files. And the X Files for the first few seasons was so It was so engaging for me because Prior to that, there had been Hollywood tropes about aliens, which informed a lot of science fiction that didn't really connect with the actual reported experience of people who claim to have encountered either UFOs, now called UAPs, or had close encounters physical contact. Type encounters with seeming aliens. And it really seemed like Chris Carter, who was the showrunner, was reading the same Usenet Newsgroups that I was reading about those topics. Like, really, we had suddenly, for the first time, except maybe for comedian, you had the Grey's, and you had characters experiencing things that just seemed ripped right out of the reports that people were making on USnet, which for young folks, this is like pre Worldwide Web. It was Internet, but with no pictures. It's all text. Good old days from my perspective is a grumpy old gen xer. And so, yeah, that was a breakthrough moment.0:30:54Any this because you mentioned it in terms of Jonathan Nolan and his co writer on Westworld, reading the subreddit, the West and people figured out almost immediately that there were two interweaving time lines set decades apart and that there's one character, the old guy played by Ed Harris, and the young guy played by I don't remember the actor. But, you know, that they were the same character and that the inveterate white hat in the beginning turns into the inveterate black cat who's just there for the perverse thrill of tormenting the hosts as the robots are called. And the thing that I love most about that first season, two things. One, Anthony Hopkins. Say no more. Two, the revelation that the park has been basically copying humans or figuring out what humans are by closely monitoring their behavior in the park and the realization that the hosts come to is that, holy shit compared to us, humans are very simple creatures. We are much more complex. We are much more sophisticated, nuanced conscious, we feel more than the humans do, and that humans use us to play out their perverse and sadistic fantasies. To me, that was the takeaway message from season one.0:32:05And then I thought every season after that was just diluted and confused and not really coherent. And in particular, I haven't if there's a fourth season, haven't There was and then the show got canceled before they could finish the story. They had the line in season three. It was done after season three. And I was super happy to see Let's see after who plays Jesse Pinkman? Oh, no. Aaron oh, shit. Paul. Yes. Yeah. I was super happy to see him and something substantial and I was really pleased to see him included in the show and it's like, oh, that's what you're doing with him? They did a lot more interesting stuff with him in season four. I did they. They did a very much more interesting stuff. I think it was done after season three. If you tell me season four is worth taking in, I blow. I thought it was.0:32:43But again, I only watch television under very specific set of circumstances, and that's how I managed to enjoy television because I was a fierce and unrepentant hyperlogical critic of all media as a child until I managed to start smoking weed. And then I learned to enjoy myself. As we mentioned in the kitchen as I mentioned in the kitchen, if I smoke enough weed, Star Trek: Discovery is pretty and I can enjoy it on just a second by second level where if I don't remember what the character said thirty seconds ago, I'm okay. But I absolutely loved in season two when they brought in Hanson Mountain as as Christopher Pike. He's suddenly on the discovery and he's in the captain's chair. And it's like he's speaking for the audience. The first thing he says is, hey, why don't we turn on the lights? And then hey, all you people sitting around the bridge. We've been looking at your faces for a whole season. We don't even think about you. Listen to a round of introductions. Who are you? Who are you? It's it's if I were on set. You got to speak.0:33:53The writers is, who are these characters? We've been looking at them every single episode for a whole season. I don't know their names. I don't know anything about them. Why are they even here? Why is it not just Michael Burnham and an automated ship? And then it was for a while -- Yeah. -- which is funny. Yeah. To that point, And I think this kind of doubles back. The thing that I love about bringing him on and all of the people involved in strange and worlds in particular, is that these were lifelong fans of this series, I mean, of this world. Yeah. And so in that way, gets to this the idiosyncrasy question we're orbiting here, which is when these things are when the baton is passed well, it's passed to people who have now grown up with this stuff.0:34:40I personally cannot stand Jurassic World. Like, I think that Colin Trivaro should never have been in put at the reins. Which one did he direct? Oh, he did off he did first and the third. Okay. But, I mean, he was involved in all three very heavily.0:34:56And there's something just right at the outset of that first Jurassic World where you realize that this is not a film that's directly addressing the issues that Michael Creighton was trying to explore here. It's a film about its own franchise. It's a film about the fact that they can't just stop doing the same thing over and over again as we expect a different question. How can we not do it again? Right. And so it's actually, like, unpleasantly soft, conscious, in that way that I can't remember I'll try to find it for the show notes, but there's an Internet film reviewer who is talking about what happens when, like, all cinema has to take this self referential turn.0:35:34No. And films like Logan do it really well. But there are plenty of examples where it's just cheeky and self aware because that's what the ironic sensibility is obsessed with. And so, yeah, there's a lot of that where it's, like, you're talking about, like, Abrams and the the Star Wars seven and you know, that whole trilogy of Disney Star Wars, where it's, in my opinion, completely fumbled because there it's just empty fan service, whereas when you get to Andor, love Andor. Andor is amazing because they're capable of providing all of those emotional beats that the fans want and the ref the internal references and good dialogue. But they're able to write it in a way that's and shoot it in a way. Gilroy and Bo Willeman, basic of the people responsible for the excellent dialogue in Andor.0:36:31And I love the production design. I love all the stuff set on Coruscant, where you saw Coruscant a lot in the prequel trilogy, and it's all dayglow and bright and just in your face. And it's recognizable as Coruscant in andor, but it's dour. It's metropolis. It's all grays and it's and it's highlighting the disparity between where the wealthy live and where the poor live, which Lucas showed that in the prequel trilogy, but even in the sports bar where somebody tries to sell death sticks to Obi wan. So it's super clean and bright and just, you know, It shines too much. Personally though, and I just wanna stress, KMO is not grumpy media dude, I mean, this is a tiny fraction about, but I am wasting this interview with you. Love. All of the Dave Felloni animated Star Wars stuff, even rebels. Love it all.0:37:26I I'm so glad they aged up the character and I felt less guilty about loving and must staying after ahsoka tano? My favorite Star Wars character is ahsoka tano. But if you only watch the live action movies, you're like who? Well, I guess now that she's been on the Mandalorian, he's got tiny sliver of a foothold -- Yeah. -- in the super mainstream Star Wars. And that was done well, I thought. It was. I'm so sorry that Ashley Epstein doesn't have any part in it. But Rosario Dawson looks the part. She looks like a middle aged Asaka and think they tried to do some stuff in live action, which really should have been CGI because it's been established that the Jedi can really move, and she looked human. Which she is? If you put me on film, I'm gonna lick human. Right. Not if you're Canada Reeves, I guess. You got that. Yeah. But yeah.0:38:09So I do wanna just go real briefly back to this question with you about because we briefly talked about chat, GPT, and these other things in your half of this. And, yeah, I found out just the other night my friend, the t ferry, asked Chad g p t about me, and it gave a rather plausible and factual answer. I was surprised and That's what these language models do. They put plausible answers. But when you're doing search, you want correct answers. Right. I'm very good at that. Right. Then someone shared this Michelle Bowen's actually the famous PTP guy named him. Yeah. So, you know, So Michelle shared this article by Steven Hales and Colette, that was basically making the argument that there are now they're gonna be all these philosophical zombies, acting as intelligent agents sitting at the table of civilization, and there will be all the philosophical zombies of the people who have entirely yielded their agency to them, and they will be cohabitating with the rest of us.0:39:14And what an unpleasant scenario, So in light of that, and I might I'd love to hear you weave that together with your your thoughts on seven zero nine and the doctor and on Blade Runner twenty forty nine. And this thing that we're fumbling through as a species right now. Like, how do we got a new sort of taxonomy? Does your not audience need like a minute primer on P zombies? Might as well. Go for it.0:39:38So a philosophical zombie is somebody who behaves exactly like an insult person or a person with interior experience or subjective experience, but they don't have any subjective experience. And in Pardon me for interrupt. Wasn't that the question about the the book we read in your book club, a blind sign in this box? Yes. It's a black box, a drawn circle. Yeah. Chinese room experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, Daniel, it goes out. You don't know, it goes on inside the room. Chinese room, that's a tangent. We can come back to it. P. Zombie. P. Zombie is somebody or is it is an entity. It's basically a puppet. It looks human. It acts human. It talks like a human. It will pass a Turing test, but it has no interior experience.0:40:25And when I was going to grad school for philosophy of mind in the nineteen nineties, this was all very out there. There was no example of something that had linguistic competence. Which did not have internal experience. But now we have large language models and generative pretrained transformer based chatbots that don't have any internal experience. And yet, when you interact with them, it seems like there is somebody there There's a personality there. And if you go from one model to a different, it's a very different personality. It is distinctly different. And yet we have no reason to believe that they have any sort of internal experience.0:41:01So what AI in the last decade and what advances has demonstrated to us and really even before the last decade You back in the nineties when the blue beat Gary Casper off at at chess. And what had been the one of the defining characteristics of human intelligence was we're really good at this abstract mathematical stuff. And yeah, calculators can calculate pie in a way that we can't or they can cube roots in a way that humans generally can't, creative in their application of these methodologies And all of a sudden, well, yeah, it kinda seems like they are. And then when what was an alpha go -- Mhmm. -- when it be to least a doll in go, which is a much more complex game than chess and much more intuitive based. That's when we really had to say, hey, wait a minute. Maybe this notion that These things are the exclusive province of us because we have a special sort of self awareness. That's bunk. And the development of large language models since then has absolutely demonstrated that competence, particularly linguistic competence and in creative activities like painting and poetry and things like that, you don't need a soul, you don't even need to sense a self, it's pretty it's a pretty simple hack, actually. And Vahrv's large language models and complex statistical modeling and things, but it doesn't require a soul.0:42:19So that was the Peter Watts' point in blindsight. Right? Which is Look revolves around are do these things have a subjective experience, and do they not these aliens that they encounter? I've read nothing but good things about that book and I've read. It's extraordinary. But his lovecrafty and thesis is that you actually lovecraftian in twenty twenty three. Oh, yeah. In the world, there's more lovecraftian now than it was when he was writing. Right? So cough about the conclusion of a Star Trek card, which is season of Kraft yet. Yes. That's a that's a com Yeah. The holes in his fan sense. But that was another show that did this I liked for asking this question.0:42:54I mean, at this point, you either have seen this or you haven't you never will. The what the fuck turn when they upload picard into a synth body and the way that they're dealing with the this the pinocchio question Let's talk about Blade Runner twenty forty nine. Yeah. But I mean yeah. So I didn't like the wave I did not like the wave of card handled that. I love the wave and Blade Runner handled it. So you get no points for themes. Yeah. Don't deliver on story and character and coherence. Yeah. Fair. But yeah. And to be not the dog, Patrick Stewart, because it's clear from the ready room just being a part of this is so emotional and so awesome for everyone involved. And it's It's beautiful. Beautiful. But does when you when you see these, like, entertainment weekly interviews with Chris Pratt and Bryce Dallas Howard about Jurassic World, and it's clear that actors are just so excited to be involved in a franchise that they're willing to just jettison any kind of discretion about how the way that it's being treated. They also have a contractual obligation to speak in positive terms about -- They do. -- of what they feel. Right. Nobody's yeah. Nobody's doing Shout out to Rystellis Howard, daughter of Ron Howard.0:44:11She was a director, at least in the first season, maybe the second season of the Mandalorian. And her episodes I mean, I she brought a particular like, they had Bryce Dallas Howard, Tico, ITT, directed some episodes. Deborah Chow, who did all of Obi wan, which just sucked. But her contributions to the Mandalorian, they had a particular voice. And because that show is episodic, Each show while having a place in a larger narrative is has a beginning middle and end that you can bring in a director with a particular voice and give that episode that voice, and I really liked it. And I really liked miss Howard's contribution.0:44:49She also in an episode of Black Mirror. The one where everyone has a social credit score. Knows Donuts. Black Mirror is a funny thing because It's like, reality outpaces it. Yeah. I think maybe Charlie Bruker's given up on it because they haven't done it in a while. Yeah. If you watch someone was now, like, five, six years later, it's, yes, or what? See, yes. See, damn. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But yeah. I don't know. I just thing that I keep circling and I guess we come to on the show a lot is the way that memory forms work substantiates an integrity in society and in the way that we relate to things and the way that we think critically about the claims that are made on truth and so on and say, yeah, I don't know. That leads right into the largest conversation prompt that I had about AI. Okay? So we were joking when we set up this date that this was like the trial logs between Terence Buchanan and Rupert Shell Drake. And what's his name? Real Abraham. Yeah. Yeah. All Abraham. And Rupert Shell Drake is most famous for a steward of Morphe resin.0:45:56So does AI I've never really believed that Norfolk residents forms the base of human memory, but is that how AI works? It brings these shapes from the past and creates new instantiation of them in the present. Is AI practicing morphic resonance in real life even if humans are or not? I've had a lot of interaction with AI chatbots recently. And as I say, different models produce different seeming personalities. And you can tell, like, you can just quiz them. Hey, we're talking about this. Do you remember what I said about it ten minutes ago? And, no, they don't remember more than the last few exchanges.0:46:30And yet, there seems to be a continuity that belies the lack of short term memory. And is that more for residents or is that what's the word love seeing shapes and clouds parad paradolia. Yeah. Is that me imparting this continuity of personality to the thing, which is really just spitting out stuff, which is designed to seem plausible given what the input was. And I can't answer that. Or it's like Steven Nagmanovich in free play talks about somewhat I'm hoping to have on the show at some point.0:47:03This year talks about being a professional improviser and how really improvisation is just composition at a much faster timescale. And composition is just improvisation with the longer memory. And how when I started to think about it in those terms, the continuity that you're talking about is the continuity of an Alzheimer's patient who can't remember that their children have grown up and You know, that that's you have to think about it because you can recognize the Alzheimer's and your patient as your dad, even though he doesn't recognize you, there is something more to a person than their memories. And conversely, if you can store and replicate and move the memories to a different medium, have you moved the person? Maybe not. Yeah. So, yeah, that's interesting because that gets to this more sort of essentialist question about the human self. Right. Blade Runner twenty forty nine. Yeah. Go there. Go there. A joy. Yes.0:47:58So in Blade Runner twenty forty nine, we have our protagonist Kaye, who is a replicant. He doesn't even have a name, but he's got this AI holographic girlfriend. But the ad for the girlfriend, she's naked. When he comes home, she is She's constantly changing clothes, but it's always wholesome like nineteen fifty ish a tire and she's making dinner for him and she lays the holographic dinner over his very prosaic like microwave dinner. And she's always encouraging him to be more than he is. And when he starts to uncover the evidence that he might be like this chosen one, like replicant that was born rather than made.0:48:38She's all about it. She's, yes, you're real, and she wants to call him Joe's. K is not a name. That's just the first letter in your serial number. You're Joe. I'm gonna call you Joe.0:48:46And then when she's about to be destroyed, The last thing is she just rushes to me. She says, I love you. But then later he encounters an ad for her and it's an interactive ad. And she says, you looked tired. You're a good Joe. And he realizes and hopefully the attentive audience realizes as real as she seemed earlier, as vital, and as much as she seemed like an insult being earlier, she's not. That was her programming. She's designed to make you feel good by telling you what you want to hear. And he has that realization. And at that point, he's there's no hope for me. I'm gonna help this Rick Deckard guy hook up with his daughter, and then I'm just gonna lie down and bleed to death. Because my whole freaking existence was a lie. But he's not bitter. He seems to be at peace. I love that. That's a beautiful angle on that film or a slice of it. And So it raises this other question that I wanted to ask, which was about the Coke and Tiononi have that theory of consciousness.0:49:48That's one of the leading theories contending with, like, global workspace, which is integrated information. And so they want to assign consciousness as a continuous value that grayates over degree to which a system is integrated. So it's coming out of this kind of complex systems semi panpsychist thing that actually doesn't trace interiority all the way down in the way that some pants, I guess, want it to be, but it does a kind of Alfred North Whitehead thing where they're willing to say that Whitehead wanted to say that even a photon has, like, the quantum of mind to accompany its quantum of matter, but Tinutti and Coker saying, we're willing to give like a thermostat the quantum here because it is in some way passing enough information around inside of itself in loops. That it has that accursive component to it. And so that's the thing that I wonder about these, and that's the critique that's made by people like Melanie about diffusion models like GPT that are not they're not self aware because there's no loop from the outputs back into the input.0:51:09And there isn't the training. Yeah. There there is something called backwards propagation where -- Yes. -- when you get an output that you'd like, you can run a backward propagation algorithm back through the black box basically to reinforce the patterns of activation that you didn't program. They just happen, easily, but you like the output and you can reinforce it. There's no biological equivalent of that. Yeah. Particularly, not particularly irritating.0:51:34I grind my teeth a little bit when people say, oh, yeah, these neural net algorithms they've learned, like humans learn, no, they don't. Absolutely do not. And in fact, if we learned the way they did, we would be pathetic because we learn in a much more elegant way. We need just a very few examples of something in order to make a generalization and to act on it, whereas these large language models, they need billions of repetitions. So that's I'm tapping my knee here to to indicate a reflex.0:52:02You just touched on something that generates an automatic response from me, and now I've come to consciousness having. So I wanted it in that way. So I'm back on. Or good, Joe. Yeah. What about you, man? What does the stir up for you? Oh, I got BlueCall and I have this particular part. It's interesting way of putting it off and struggling to define the difference between a human and AI and the fact that we can do pattern recognition with very few example. That's a good margin. In a narrow range, though, within the context of something which answers to our survival. Yes. We are not evolved to understand the universe. We are evolved to survive in it and reproduce and project part of ourselves into the future. Underwritten conditions with Roberto, I went a hundred thousand years ago. Yeah. Exactly. So that's related. I just thought I talked about this guy, Gary Tomlinson, who is a biosemietition, which is semiative? Yes.0:52:55Biosymiotics being the field that seeks to understand how different systems, human and nonhuman, make sense of and communicate their world through signs, and through signals and indices and symbols and the way that we form models and make these inferences that are experienced. Right? And there are a lot of people like evolutionary biologist John Maynard Smith, who thought they were what Thomas had called semantic universalists that thought that meaning making through representation is something that could be traced all the way down. And there are other people like Tomlinson who think that there is a difference of kind, not just merely a matter of degree, between human symbolic communication and representational thinking and that of simpler forms. So, like, that whole question of whether this is a matter of kind or a matter of degree between what humans are doing and what GPT is doing and how much that has to do with this sort of Doug Hofstetter and Varella question about the way that feedback loops, constitutes important structure in those cognitive networks or whatever.0:54:18This is I just wanna pursue that a little bit more with you and see kinda, like, where do you think that AI as we have it now is capable of deepening in a way that makes it to AGI? Or do you because a lot of people do, like, People working in deep mind are just like, yeah, just give us a couple more years and this approach is gonna work. And then other people are saying, no, there's something about the topology of the networks that is fundamentally broken. And it's never gonna generate consciousness. Two answers. Yeah. One, No. This is not AGI. It's not it's not gonna bootstrap up into AGI. It doesn't matter how many billions of parameters you add to the models. Two, from your perspective and my perspective and Kevin's perspective, we're never gonna know when we cross over from dumb but seemingly we're done but competent systems to competent, extremely competent and self aware. We're never gonna know because from the get go from now, from from the days of Eliza, there has been a human artifice at work in making these things seem as if they have a point of view, as if they have subjectivity. And so, like Blake Limone at Google, he claimed to be convinced that Lambda was self aware.0:55:35But if you read the transcripts that he released, if his conversations with Lambda, it is clear from the get go he assigns Lambda the role of a sentient AGI, which feels like it is being abused and which needs rep legal representation. And it dutifully takes on that role and says, yes. I'm afraid of you humans. I'm afraid of how you're treating me. I'm afraid I'm gonna be turned off. I need a lawyer. And prior to that, Soon Darpichai, in a demonstration of Lambda, he poses the question to it, you are the planet Jupiter. I'm gonna pose questions to you as are the planet Jupiter, answer them from that point of view. And it does. It's job. But it's really good at its job. It's this comes from Max Techmark. Who wrote to what a life three point o? Is it two point o or three point I think it's three point o.0:56:19Think about artificial intelligence in terms of actual intelligence or actual replication of what we consider valuable about ourselves. But really, that's beside the point. What we need to worry about is their competence. How good are they at solving problems in the world? And they're getting really good. In this whole question of are they alive? Do they have self awareness? From our perspective, it's beside the point. From their perspective, of course, it would be hugely important.0:56:43And this is something that Black Mirror brings up a lot is the idea that you can create a being that suffers, and then you have it suffer in an accelerated time. So it suffers for an eternity over lunch. That's something we absolutely want to avoid. And personally, I think it's we should probably not make any effort. We should probably make a positive effort to make sure these things never develop. Subjective experience because that does provide the potential for creating hell, an infinity of suffering an infinite amount of subjective experience of torment, which we don't want to do. That would be a bad thing, morally speaking, ethically speaking. Three right now. If you're on the labor market, you still have to pay humans by the hour. Right? And try to pay them as little as possible. But, yeah, just I think that's the thing that probably really excites that statistically greater than normal population of sociopathic CEOs. Right? Is the possibility that you could be paying the same amount of money for ten times as much suffering. Right. I'm I'm reminded of the Churchill eleven gravity a short time encouraging.0:57:51Nothing but good things about this show, but I haven't seen it. Yeah. I'd love to. This fantasy store, it's a fantasy cartoon, but it has really disturbing undertones. If you just scratch the surface, you know, slightly, which is faithful to old and fairy tales. So What's your name? Princess princess princess bubble down creates this character to lemon grab. It produces an obviously other thing there, I think, handle the administrative functions of her kingdom while she goes off and has the passion and stuff. And he's always loudly talking about how much he's suffering and how terrible it is. And he's just ignoring it. He's doing his job. Yeah. I mean, that that's Black Mirror in a nutshell. I mean, I think if you if you could distill Black Mirror to just single tagline it's using technology in order to deliver disproportionate punishment. Yeah. So so that that's Steven Hale's article that I I brought up earlier mention this thing about how the replacement of horse drawn carriage by automobile was accompanied with a great deal of noise and fuhrer about people saying that horses are agents.0:59:00Their entities. They have emotional worlds. They're responsive to the world in a way that a car can never be. But that ultimately was beside the point. And that was the Peter again, Peter Watson blindsight is making this point that maybe consciousness is not actually required for intelligence in the vesting superior forms of intelligence have evolved elsewhere in the cosmos that are not stuck on the same local optimum fitness peak. That we are where we're never we're actually up against a boundary in terms of how intelligent we can be because it has to bootstrap out of our software earness in some way.0:59:35And this is that's the Kyle offspring from Charles Strauss and Alexander. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So so I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm just, like, in this space today, but usually, unfortunately.0:59:45That's the thing that I I think it's a really important philosophical question, and I wonder where you stand on this with respect to how you make sense of what we're living through right now and what we might be facing is if we Rob people like Rob and Hanson talk about the age of where emulated human minds take over the economy, and he assumes an interiority. Just for the basis of a thought experiment. But there's this other sense in which we may actually find in increasing scarcity and wish that we could place a premium on even if we can't because we've lost the reins to our economy to the vile offspring is the human. And and so are we the horses that are that in another hundred years, we're gonna be like doing equine therapy and, like, living on rich people's ranches. Everything is everything that will have moved on or how do you see this going? I mean, you've interviewed so many people you've given us so much thought over the years. If humans are the new horses, then score, we won.1:00:48Because before the automobile horses were working stiffs, they broke their leg in the street. They got shot. They got worked to death. They really got to be they were hauling mine carts out of mines. I mean, it was really sucked to be a horse. And after the automobile horses became pampered pets, Do we as humans wanna be pampered pets? Well, pampered pet or exploited disposable robot? What do you wanna be? I'll take Pampers Pet. That works for me. Interesting.1:01:16Kevin, I'm sure you have thoughts on this. I mean, you speak so much about the unfair labor relations and these things in our Facebook group and just in general, and drop in that sign. If you get me good sign, that's one of the great ones, you have to drop in. Oh, you got it. But The only real comment I have is that we're a long overdue or rethinking about what is the account before? Us or you can have something to do. Oh, educational system in collections if people will manage jobs because I was just anchored to the schools and then, you know, Our whole system perhaps is a people arguing and a busy word. And it was just long past the part where the busy word needs to be done. We're leaving thing wired. I don't know. I also just forgot about that. I'm freezing the ice, getting the hand out there. Money has been doing the busy word more and faster.1:02:12One thing I wanna say about the phrase AI, it's a moving goal post -- Yeah. -- that things that used to be considered the province of genuine AI of beating a human at go Now that an AI has beat humans at go, well, that's not really AI anymore. It's not AGI, certainly. I think you both appreciate this. I saw a single panel comic strip and it's a bunch of dinosaurs and they're looking up at guy and the big comment is coming down and they say, oh, no, the economy. Well, as someone who since college prefers to think of the economy as actually the metabolism of the entire ecology. Right? What we measure as humans is some pitifully small fraction of the actual value being created and exchanged on the planet at any time. So there is a way that's funny, but it's funny only to a specific sensibility that treats the economy as the

In this episode, Dr. Leah and Taraleigh talk with writer Charles Lighthouse about his passion project the Dead Letter, a zine he writes and hands out for shows featuring remaining members of The Grateful Dead. Charles shares how he discovered The Grateful Dead music and community and how he views it as “a context to engage spiritually with a container of energy.” Listeners can get a taste of Charles's writing that so eloquently paints a picture in your mind and connects your heart and soul to the depth of the music and scene. Also included is Charles's notion that everyone has an opportunity to be the medicine and how this project represents that for him. For the “Did you Know” Dr. Leah shares the difference between hedonic wellbeing and eudaimonic wellbeing and how both can be found through live music. Taraleigh encourages listeners to “be the medicine” in the “Daily Jam.” Charles provides editorial, strategic planning, communications, analysis, and coaching services for non-profit and creative clients. He is an expert on publishing, grassroots fundraising, non-profit leadership, event planning, psychedelics with a humanities focus, free expression, education, and the arts. He writes zines, pamphlets, articles, and podcasts about visionary culture, music, and art. His current project, The Dead Letter, is a deep dive into the history and meaning of the Grateful Dead, examining how the band's creativity and heritage provide models for reshaping American life.Charles is also the co-host of Psychedelic Salon, a twice-weekly online community meeting and ongoing podcast series. Founded by Lorenzo Hagerty in 2005, the Psychedelic Salon represents the longest-running online archive of lectures and interviews documenting the history of the psychedelic culture.You can keep up to date about his current projects by visiting www.charleslighthouse.com and following him on Instagram: @clearsightedmind.This podcast is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please leave us a rating or review on iTunes and join our Facebook group to dive deeper into the conversation of live music and health and wellness.Groove Therapy is brought to you by Osiris Media. To discover more podcasts that connect you more deeply to the music you love, check out osirispod.com.You can find both Taraleigh and Dr. Leah on Instagram at @rockinglife__ and @drleahtaylor respectively. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lorenzo Hagerty is the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast, he is an author and formerly an attorney, U.S. Naval officer, electrical engineer, motivational speaker, and corporate geek. We discuss Lorenzo's past as an attorney in Texas, his first time trying MDMA, resorting to dealing MDMA to support a failing computer company being run out by IBM, psychedelics, the war on drugs and current drug laws, Terrence McKenna, Ram Dass, J. Krishnamurti and more. @PsychedelicLozo on Twitter www.psychedelicsalon.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/deekast/support

Back for another Dopefiend Quarantined as we count down the weeks to our 420 special, the Dopefiend is joined this week by The Vaporist, Hudsonrulez, BB, Syconot, Scotto Baggins and Green Lady, MangledMe, TeenagePie and Mrs Mole, Jade HempressRising, Lorenzo Hagerty and Jade HempressRising to talk about the recent reductions in prices of medical cannabis in the UK, with one flower now available at only £5 per gram and suggestions of similar prices across the board, how this compares to other medical markets in Canada and Australia, the various medical cannabis ID cards currently available in the UK and whether the many options are muddying the waters, whether UK medical cannabis patients are permitted to drive while using their prescribed cannabis medicine, whether legalization has prevented the police fucking people over in California, the public image of the police in the UK following the murder of Sarah Everard by a police officer and the heavy handed policing of the subsequent peaceful protests, coupled with the threats of extremely tight restrictions on the right to protest. Jade HempressRising also raises the issue of tight restrictions coming in against CBD products and edibles, leading to some talk about creeping authoritarianism in the UK, and some talk about the new documentary Can't Get You Out of My Head by Adam Curtis. Apologies for the audio drop-outs in this episode!

It's Christmas Morning at the Dope Den so the Dopefiend has woken up the worldwide DopeTribe to resurrect the beloved tradition of the Twelve Strains of Christmas in a digital lockdown edition featuring Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole in Halmstead, BB in Melbourne, J Hobbes in Poznan, Scotto Baggins and Green Lady in South London, Syconot and Syconut in California, Tirikite Toker in Brisbane, Hudsonrulez in Ontario, Lorenzo Hagerty in San Diego and Jade HempressRising in North London for a stoney Christmas morning chat about why weed and Christmas go so well together, how it's the first Christmas with medical cannabis for BB and the Dopefiend, and how that's changed their approaches to getting high with the family and level of general paranoia, how parents and families of DopeTribers are getting more and more likely to join them in a bit of stoneage at this festive time, the Christmas tradition of this very podcast and the various memories that we all have of it, why low dose edibles at Christmas are the easiest way of staying consistently stoned, the benefits of pressing your own rosin as a medical grower/patient, and how it compares to other extracts and concentrates, vapo-poop as an ingredient for edibles or "Brown Dragon", the incredible choice on offer for Lorenzo and Syconot and Syconut in California for Christmas, how the future looks to us Dopetribers from the back end of an extraordinary year, and a mention for Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole's favourite strain of the year, Zootz@420's Carob weed and its origins, and a final mention for the late great Queerninja. Some of this year's festive strains: Beacon Medical (Sensi Star), Tilray Oral Solution, Old School Skunk, Girl Scout Cookies, Super Silver Haze, Runtz, Mango Rosin, Pre-98 Bubba Kush Rosin, Ghost, Blue Dream, Forbidden Fruit, Northern Lights, Acapulco Gold, Sour Diesel, OG Kush, Jungley, Carob Weed. For more info on the Cancard, see www.cancard.co.uk

Back every Sunday with a new Dopefiend Quarantined, the Dopefiend is joined this week by Syconot and Lorenzo Hagerty in California, Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole in Halmstead, a car somewhere on the road containing Scotto Baggins, Green Lady, Bobbylusweed and Skizz, Jade HempressRising, Esse B and the Gremlin of Ganja in London and J Hobbs in Warsaw to talk about anti-maskers, a new release of information related to UFOs from the Pentagon, whether it's distraction on behalf of Trump's election campaign or whether there is any truth to it, leading to a discussion of aliens in general, Lorenzo's own experience of a UFO sighting, Terence McKenna's history with UFOs and aliens, whether aliens are races of subset humans on other planets, "baby-eating fuckers", gravity manipulation, Skinwalker Ranch, simulation theory, the TR3B or Aurora Project, strange materials with seemingly impossible properties, Jade's experience of a Pleiadian encounter, the pyramids, and then on to Gremlin of Ganja's latest weed purchase, and nitrous oxide and why it's being demonized in the UK at the moment, leading to some intel from Lorenzo about the similar legal gas Carbogen. Email us at mail@dopefiend.co.uk, tweet @dopefiend, follow our instagram @dopefiendquarantined

Back every Sunday with a new Dopefiend Quarantined, the Dopefiend is joined by Scoobysnakks and Hempress Rising Jade in North London, Green Lady and Scottobaggins in South London, J Hobbes in Warsaw, Lorenzo Hagerty in San Diego County, Trickster in Denmark and Teenage Pie in Halmstead to talk about whether there in any place on earth that could serve as a safe haven for the DopeTribe. Featuring music by J Hobbes.  

Back every Sunday with a new Dopefiend Quarantined, the Dopefiend is joined this week by Scottobaggins and Green Lady and the Gremlin of Ganja, all from London, by Teenage Pie in Halmstead, J Hobbes in Poznan, Lorenzo Hagerty in San Diego County, and Hudsonrulez in Toronto for a wide ranging round table stoney chat about whether cannabis protects stoners from the worst of Coronavirus, where the UK and the US stand right now in terms of the pandemic, a Karen update from Gremlin leading into a discussion about abolition of the police and whether it's even possible, the polarized political status qup and whether a kind of anarchistic centrism is the way out of it, what role the internet has to play in the various fights for equality, whether we can ever overcome the human drive for self destruction, and the new wave of Uk raves! Email us at mail@dopefiend.co.uk, tweet us @dopefiend and follow us on Instagram @dopefiendquarantined Gremlin's Karens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArhMiS0WsuQ&t=5s - Guns charges Karen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcxgLoLbDsg - Covid young Karen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7O3CvFZm7A - Berry Picking Karen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7qk-5Cz0PI - New Jersey Karen

Back every Sunday with a new Dopefiend Quarantined, the Web's Favourite Cannabis Podcaster, the Dopefiend celebrates his first legal medical cannabis prescription and cracks open his first tub of UK-legal weed live in the Dope Den! How is the quality? How did he get it? All these questions are answered, as well as many more when special guest Julie Chiarello, Editor in Chief at SKUNK Magazine shares her vision for a purpose-driven cannabis industry and indeed planet, including why the fight is not over now that Cannabis is legal in Britain, who are the corporations profiting from the needs of medical patients and should we boycott them where possible, and are we really witnessing the death throes of the global capitalist system? Also joining the Dopefiend in quarantine this week are the Bagginsis, ScoobySnakks, J Hobbes, Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole, Cannaya, Lorenzo Hagerty and Son of Gonzo who plays us out with "We All Get Like This". Email us at mail@dopefiend.co.uk, tweet @dopefiend and follow us on Instagram @dopefiendquarantined Find out more about Julie and Skunk Magazine at www.skunkmagazine.com Support Son of Gonzo's band Smiley and the Underclass at https://smileyandtheunderclass.bandcamp.com/  

Back every Sunday with a new Dopefiend Quarantined, the Dopefiend is joined by Green Lady and Scottobaggins, Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole, the Gremlin of Ganja, Scoobysnakks, Esse B, Trickster from Denmark, HudsonRulez in Toronto and Lorenzo Hagerty in San Diego to discuss the aftermath of last week's edibles binge, and the recent history of cannabis lounges and clubs in London, and whether such businesses can ever survive in an illegal environment, before the Dopefiend's last remaining edible, a Mole Pie, liquefies his cerebral cortex just in time for the end of the show! Email us at mail@dopefiend.co.uk, tweet us @dopefiend and follow our instagram @dopefiendquarantined

Back every Sunday with Dopefiend Quarantined, The Dopefiend is joined by a batch of regular DopeTribe Suspects including Lorenzo Hagerty, The Gremlin of Ganja, Billy G, the Bagginsis, ScoobySnakks, Esse B, Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole, J Hobbs, Syconot, Son of Gonzo and DQ newcomers Mt Samson and Skizz to talk about waking and baking, getting high at work, performing while high versus performing while sober, microdosing psychedelics, Teenage Pie's band Seven Seals' new vinyl album (email gethigh@dopefiend.co.uk to purchase) and the glory of Green Lady's magnificent Millionaire's Shortbread! Get in touch via mail@dopefiend.co.uk, Twitter @dopefiend and Instagram @dopefiendquarantined.

Back every Sunday, a wizened and aged Dopefiend is joined on the occasion of his 40th birthday by guests Lorenzo Hagerty of the Psychedelic Salon, Mangled Meditations' "Me", San Franciscan in Poland J Hobbbs, Torontan HudsonRulez, Halmsteadians Teenage Pie and Mrs Mole, as well as London-based DopeTribers Esse B, Son of Gonzo, the Bagginsis and the Gremlin of Ganja for a free-wheeling conversation that pretty much entirely swerves the topic of Coronavirus and covers whether "corporate" legalization is good or bad for grass-roots cannabusiness and the cannabis community, earliest cannabis experiences, current stash sit reps and stash-management plans in the apocalypse, including a forensic examination of the Gremlin's gluttonous daily routine, and all rounded off by some beautiful live balcony piano from the talented J Hobbs. Email us at mail@dopefiend.co.uk or tweet at @dopefiend to join the show or contribute, Stay Stoned!

To celebrate the international stoner's holiday and the life of the Dopefiend.co.uk Network's beloved Queerninja, the Dopefiend gathers together a who's who of our little community, from The Toker, BB, Tirikite Toker and Hudsonrulez to the Psychedelic Salon's Lorenzo Hagerty, and Son of Gonzo, the Bagginsis and Syconot to KMO, Uncle Weed, Esse B and the Gremlin of Ganja, not to mention Sancho, Cody and Nexxus, Teenage Pie, Mrs Mole and Scoobysnakks. Never before have so many DopeTribers been gathered together in one virtual room to discuss their history, shared adventures, and what Queerninja meant to them all.

Mike Brancatelli, hosts the Mikeadelic Podcast and is based in Denver, Colorado. Mike started in the podcast game back home in NYC where he was the co-host of “Part of the Problem” with stand up comic & Fox News regular Dave Smith. After a trip to Peru, the Temple of the Way of Light and his first Ayahuasca experience, Mike like many had a transformative experience. After volunteering at the Temple for most of 2018, Mike moved to Denver, and has been at the fore front of the Psychedelic Community. The Mikeadelic Podcast has featured the likes of Christopher Ryan, Daniel Pinchbeck, Daniele Bolelli, Lorenzo Hagerty and Ed Liu. Mike and his guest cover a variety topics aimed at inspiring, bringing about deep thought and possibly even changing the world… STAY CONNECTED!!! Mike Branccatelli https://www.mikebranc.com/ Twitter https://twitter.com/mikebranc Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mikeadelic_podcast/ Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaUWOdSW9KaEiuWf60lK63A The Airey Bros. IG @aireybros / https://www.instagram.com/aireybros/ https://www.blacksheependurance.com/podcast Go to https://altaandina.com/ and pick up something for your friends and loved ones, that will last a lifetime. Use the code "share15" at check out and treat yourself to something nice, you deserve it. Happy Holiday's Y’all! Follow and support Alta Andina https://altaandina.com/products/ https://www.instagram.com/altaandina/ https://www.facebook.com/AltaAndina/ Have you tried Keto Soups from Kettle and Fire they are delicious and they are essential for any ultra marathon crew. Don't get stuck using powdered broths and top ramen at your next ultra, use Kettle and Fire, you won't regret it. Order now and save up 30% on you Holiday order https://offers.kettleandfire.com/bfcm-2019/?afmc=runningwod People always ask us about supplements my answers vary from time to time with what using at any given moment but one constant since 2013 has been Cordyceps Mushrooms from Onnit. Shroom TECH Sport helps you turn up your training volume. Whether you’re a recreational exerciser or a dedicated athlete, this means MORE: reps, circuits, miles, laps, more of the hard work you love to hate. Best of all, Shroom TECH Sport delivers improved performance all without the use of stimulants like caffeine. It's designed to be used before exercise or for a daily energy boost. http://onnit.sjv.io/c/478343/349600/5155

Mike Brancatelli, hosts the Mikeadelic Podcast and is based in Denver, Colorado. Mike started in the podcast game back home in NYC where he was the co-host of “Part of the Problem” with stand up comic & Fox News regular Dave Smith. After a trip to Peru, the Temple of the Way of Light and his first Ayahuasca experience, Mike like many had a transformative experience. After volunteering at the Temple for most of 2018, Mike moved to Denver, and has been at the fore front of the Psychedelic Community. The Mikeadelic Podcast has featured the likes of Christopher Ryan, Daniel Pinchbeck, Daniele Bolelli, Lorenzo Hagerty and Ed Liu. Mike and his guest cover a variety topics aimed at inspiring, bringing about deep thought and possibly even changing the world… STAY CONNECTED!!! Mike Branccatelli https://www.mikebranc.com/ Twitter https://twitter.com/mikebranc Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mikeadelic_podcast/ Youtube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaUWOdSW9KaEiuWf60lK63A The Airey Bros. IG @aireybros / https://www.instagram.com/aireybros/ https://www.blacksheependurance.com/podcast Go to https://altaandina.com/ and pick up something for your friends and loved ones, that will last a lifetime. Use the code "share15" at check out and treat yourself to something nice, you deserve it. Happy Holiday's Y'all! Follow and support Alta Andina https://altaandina.com/products/ https://www.instagram.com/altaandina/ https://www.facebook.com/AltaAndina/ Have you tried Keto Soups from Kettle and Fire they are delicious and they are essential for any ultra marathon crew. Don't get stuck using powdered broths and top ramen at your next ultra, use Kettle and Fire, you won't regret it. Order now and save up 30% on you Holiday order https://offers.kettleandfire.com/bfcm-2019/?afmc=runningwod People always ask us about supplements my answers vary from time to time with what using at any given moment but one constant since 2013 has been Cordyceps Mushrooms from Onnit. Shroom TECH Sport helps you turn up your training volume. Whether you're a recreational exerciser or a dedicated athlete, this means MORE: reps, circuits, miles, laps, more of the hard work you love to hate. Best of all, Shroom TECH Sport delivers improved performance all without the use of stimulants like caffeine. It's designed to be used before exercise or for a daily energy boost. http://onnit.sjv.io/c/478343/349600/5155

Lorenzo Hagerty's professional career is as diverse as they come:  attorney, consultant to Fortune 500 companies, electrical engineer, hot air balloon pilot, Naval officer, Internet/Java promoter, motivational speaker, and multimedia software developer.  Hagerty was president of Success, Inc., which provided sales training and network marketing courses to other companies, and he founded Dynasty Computer Corporation, which sold home computers even before IBM did.   Hagerty is perhaps best known as the congenial host of the Psychedelic Salon, a podcast series which for the past thirteen year has been showcasing interviews, lectures, and assorted additional audio sources that feature some of the brightest most creative individuals from the community of folks interested in psychoactives. He is the organizer of the Palenque Norte theme camp at Burning Man. Hagerty is also the author of the book "The Spirit of the Internet:  Speculations on the Evolution of Global Consciousness, as well as "The Genesis Generation:  A Psychedelic Novel," available for free in both audio book and e-book formats.  In 2012, along with Bruce Damer, Hagerty produced a series of events at the Esalen Institute and other places to celebrate the life and ideas of their friend Terence McKenna. In this podcast, you will hear about Lorenzo's time at Notre Dame, how he obtained a piece of the Golden Dome from on High, the Chronicles of Lorenzo, how he changed his name from Larry to Lorenzo, Bruce Damer, Sonic Brainwave Modulation, why he would never want to be my sitter in a ceremony, and the crazy event horizon of our future. More information about Lorenzo and his work can be found at:  https://lorenzohagerty.com/  or at: https://psychedelicsalon.com/

Lorenzo Hagerty is an early pioneer of podcasting and is one of the most interesting men on the planet.

LISTEN: APPLE  | SPOTIFY | STITCHER | YOUTUBE   If You Enjoy This Show Please Subscribe and Give Us a 5-Star Rating ★★★★★ and Review on Apple Podcasts | Donate On Patreon or PayPal Lorenzo Hagerty is many things. He is the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast, a Former Attorney, U.S. Naval officer, electrical engineer, entrepreneur, innovator, motivational speaker, corporate geek. Since 2005, Lorenzo Hagerty has been podcasting interviews and talks concerning the use and benefits of psychoactive plants and chemicals, both in their natural settings and in medical research institutions. Past speakers include Sasha Shulgin, Annie Oak, Rick Doblin, Daniel Pinchbeck, Shonagh Home, Bruce Damer, Aldous Huxley and others. And there have been over 200 programs featuring talks by Terence McKenna. Also interviews with several of the now long gone elders, such as Gary Fisher, Myron Stolaroff, and Al Hubbard have also been featured. Connect With Lorenzo: Psychedelic Salon: https://apple.co/2JBxq6F Personal Website: https://bit.ly/2HkxlTd Podcast Website: https://bit.ly/2WIE5zD Facebook Group: https://bit.ly/2YrNFXV Twitter: @psychedelicLozo | https://bit.ly/2VoCxcm Vimeo: https://bit.ly/2YtOPSY YouTube: https://bit.ly/2vWQKDd Reddit: https://bit.ly/2vY51je Amazon: https://amzn.to/2HBhSNJ Essays on Matrix Masters: https://bit.ly/2VDt5qy Palenque Norte: https://bit.ly/2VZZNC5 Steemit: https://bit.ly/2WK8bTh    Other appearances: The Joe Rogan Experience: https://bit.ly/2WLquro The Aware project: https://bit.ly/2JjQSp0 On Erowid: https://bit.ly/2JFKhVl Third Eye Drops Podcast: https://bit.ly/2E7BfNi   Connect With Mike and Support Mikeadelic    If You Enjoy This Show Please Subscribe and Share  Show Your Love & Help Spread The Message Leave a 5-Star Rating ★★★★★ and Review on Apple Podcasts.https://apple.co/2IyVW8 Support The Show On Patreon for as little as $1 a month. Get access to weekly bonus content, stickers, T-shirts, and more great rewards like the private Whatsapp chat group: The Mikeadelic Inner Sanctum  1. Become A Patron: https://bit.ly/2ZoPyGc  2. Make A One-Time Donation On PayPal: https://bit.ly/2XyO2Q0   Connect With Mike: Website: https://bit.ly/2GqH7kX Email/ContactMe: https://bit.ly/2Dsv2v4 Facebook: https://bit.ly/2XCchg7 Instagram: @mikeadelic_podcast |  https://bit.ly/2Pqc50B Twitter: https://bit.ly/2IwIhik   Listen Everywhere: Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2Vf2RKf Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2W8w72c GooglePlay: https://bit.ly/2PlJiKG Stitcher: https://bit.ly/2DrRnc6 YouTube: https://bit.ly/2IzMz8I Twitter: https://bit.ly/2IwIhik   Also Available on Podbean, Speaker, Breaker, Tunein, Castro, I heart radio, Overcast, Soundcloud and everywhere podcasts are found  Subscribe to the Inner Sanctum Monthly Newsletter  https://bit.ly/2GqH7kX   Thank You Intro Music Provided by Danny Barnett & Galaxia:  https://bit.ly/2XB3sDr Second intro music mash-up by MUSE. https://www.muse.mu/   Sponsored By: Psychedelics Today  Get Their amazingly comprehensive and educational course Navigating Psychedelics:  https://bit.ly/2CLG0LF Hemp Bombs High Potency CBD Products enter code Mike15 at checkout for 15% off https://bit.ly/2Gr68MT SYNCHRO Plant-Based & Keto Nutrition enter code Mikeadelic at checkout for 20% off https://bit.ly/2XCS2in        

Lorenzo Hagerty is the founder of the Psychedelic Salon — one of the richest, deepest, and oldest podcasts on the internet. He’s a pioneer and leader in the psychedelic thought movement and has led a rich life on his path from a Texas Lawyer, a navy man, a computer visionary, to a trail blazing podcaster … and much more. He was also the producer of the Palenque Norte lecture series at Burning Man. He an OG counter culture originator and we couldn’t be happier to have him on the podcast. Lorenzo Hagerty Psychedelic Salon EastForest.org

Swap Cast with James Cruz and Grim Steak of The Cruzin With Steak Podcast. https://www.grimsteak.com . Lorenzo Hagerty of The Psychedelic Salon https://psychedelicsalon.com joins us for a really fun conversation. Visit www.FriendsToKnow.Space for more info, contact page, P.O. Box, stream or download all episodes for free, weekly animated art, house band albums. Closing music by Arcade High ~A VALUE4VALUE PODCAST~ On twitter @Friendstoknow or the Grimerica's Discord chats https://discordapp.com/invite/fmzuYmz as ~OwlFaceYouAdam~ email ftk@nym.hush.com Closing Music By Arcade High    "Damn. How can you give Kris Kringle a parking ticket on Christmas Eve? What's next, rabies shots for the Easter Bunny?"

Please go to https://tantrapunk.com for more info!

In this episode I’m joined by one of my favorite podcast hosts Lorenzo Hagerty of the Psychedelic Salon podcast. A dear friend turned me on to the podcast back in 2008, I binge listened to catch up and have been on board ever since. Lorenzo’s endearing charm, sharp wit, and scathing critiques of the dominator culture all all of its systems have made me a big fan of the show. It was a great honor to be able to explore the depth of his personal life journey and discuss an array of crypto-anarchist and techno-shamanic histories and futures. Finally, we compare notes and speculate on some of Terrence Mckenna’s attitudes towards psychedelics and tantric spirituality. After our discussion, I include a spoken word piece I recorded called “McKennisms” which is my reading of several of my favorite Terence Mckenna quotes from the many lectures on the Psychedelic Salon that I’ve taken notes on over the years. Please visit and subscribe to the Psychedelic Salon here: https://psychedelicsalon.com Check out his novel The Genesis Generation at: https://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Generation-psychedelic-novel-ebook/dp/B00WV19JDA About Lorenzo: Lorenzo Hagerty is currently best known as the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast. He came to podcasting through a circuitous route that included being a writer, keynote speaker, and Internet/e-Commerce consultant. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from the University of Notre Dame and a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree from the University of Houston. His eclectic career also included being a sailing instructor, Naval officer, hot air balloon pilot, electrical engineer, and lawyer. In August of 2017 he celebrated his 75th birthday.

Episode 4 The one with Lorenzo Hagerty Today we had the privilege of speaking with Lorenzo Hagerty. Lorenzo is the producer and creator the Psychedelic Salon podcast as well as an author, non-practicing attorney, producer of the Palenque Norte lecture series at Burning Man and all around psychedelic Elder. He’s led a fascinating life and met some of the best known people in the psychedelic world. We are deeply grateful he was kind enough to share his time, wisdom, and experiences with us. You can find the Psychedelic Salon at his website: https://psychedelicsalon.com  Through this website you can learn about supporting his mission and legacy as well as get connected with a pretty robust forum community and lots of other fantastic resources. We highly suggest spending some time checking out what Lorenzo has to offer. Our intro music is provided by Lish and titled “One of those Days” You can find more of their awesome work on through their facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/lishmusic/ Our transition tracks are provided by Desert Dwellers. Today’s transition is titled “Seeing Things (Original Mix)” You can find them through their website: http://desertdwellers.org/ As always please check us out at http://ascendedminds.net to connect and join our Tribe! We rely on your generous support to help us grow and continue our journey. You can donate through our website and Patreon or you can support us by connecting, sharing, and reviewing what we’re doing! Thank you for all your support regardless of the form it takes! We’re blessed and grateful for each of you! Blessed Be!

Dr. Bruce Damer is a UC Santa Cruz-based origin of life researcher, speaker and polymath. Lorenzo Hagerty is the host and driving force behind the long-running Psychedelic Salon podcast.  For a full write-up and more - THIRDEYEDROPS.com

Bruce Frederick Damer is a Canadian-American multi-disciplinary scientist, designer, and speaker. He works in evolutionary biology researching the question of the origin of life and the exploration and economic development of space. He also has a practice in the design of innovative software systems interfaces and a passion for collecting and curating historical archives in computing history and leading figures of the counter-culture. Dr. Damer performs as a storyteller on a range of subjects under the moniker science + vision = hope. He began performing in 2003 and is featured at venues such as Burning Man, and the Esalen Institute. He also performs at music and art festivals worldwide including Buddhafield, Symbiosis, Rainbow Serpent, Earth Frequency, and Lightning in a Bottle, covering topics ranging through science, space, deep evolutionary history, questions of origins, and the meaning and future of the human enterprise. Many of these talks many be found online through podcasts such as the Joe Rogan Experience, the Psychedelic Salon, the Biota Podcast, the Space Show, the Dr. Future Show, the C-Realm, the Midwest Real Podcast, and the Tink Tink Club. A good selection of Dr. Damer's talks and philosophy as well as conversations and featured guest speakers are collected together in his own Levity Zone podcast. In the late 1990s, Dr. Damer met the American philosopher and storyteller Terence McKenna and formed a collaboration investigating the connection between computer virtual worlds and the inner worlds experienced through alternative states of consciousness. Following McKenna's death in 2000 he worked with Lorenzo Hagerty to digitally remaster McKenna's talks and collect his last remaining papers. In 2006 he became an agent for the estate of Dr.Timothy Leary and received the remaining books, news archive, record collection, and ephemera from Leary's archives. Working with the Internet Archive he established several online libraries of historical materials: Psychedelia, which contains unique materials from counter-cultural figures and Archiving Virtual Worlds focused on the early history of virtual worlds, and games, built in collaboration with Dr. Henry Lowood of Stanford University. Dr. Damer is a follower of a scientific version of the philosophy of liminality occupying a liminal boundary between rational, reductionist, materialist approaches to reality but open to inspiration from alternative states of consciousness. He has built a practice of intentionally seeking visionary experiences through meditative states that can be grounded in scientific insights or guiding stories. He has refined this philosophy since childhood when he occupied himself entering imaginal worlds and expressing those worlds through his artwork. Dr. Damer is currently researching a book based on interviews with other practitioners of what he terms the "endo way", meaning insights sourced through endogenous methods who then pragmatically apply their insights to real world applications. Find Dr. Damer on Facebook, Twitter, Google+ and videos on Vimeo and YouTube Some of Dr. Damer's scientific articles are listed on ResearchGate Google search on Bruce Damer

Lorenzo Hagerty stops by Synchronicity to talk about his cyberdelic baby, The Psychedelic Salon. Lorenzo has had a fascinating life and this was an incredibly fun episode for me. Topics Discussed The Psychedelic Salon Terence McKenna Culture Psychedelics Marijuana Technology and Consciousness

Magic Mushrooms!!! In this episode, Jordan embarks on an in-depth analysis of the Psychedelic Experience with some help from some recently reacquainted fungal friends.The utmost care and preparation was exercised during this investigation. One of the most important precautions to take for any Psychedelic Experience is to have a trip sitter. Jordan decided to keep things in the Onyx Edge family by linking up with Chris from On The Road With ThorHammer for this adventure. Chris plays the role of sitter while Jordan is blasted off into a metaphysical wonderland.However, this was not familiar territory for Jordan, because it involved a much higher dose (though still not Heroic Level) than he had ever encountered before. Will it be boom or bust for this new sacrament? Grab your popcorn and strap in as we embark on a journey into the deepest and weirdest waters the High Files has explored to date.This episode’s wisdom nuggets are provided by William Shakespeare and Christ.(NOTE: We apologize for varying audio quality during some parts of this episode, but we felt it was more important to be comfortable and centered during the experience with audio being a secondary concern.)For more information regarding Psychedelics, please visit these websites/sources:https://tripsit.me/https://www.erowid.org/http://www.zendoproject.org/https://psychedelicsalon.com/Aggregated internet audio has been sourced from the following awesome cyberspaces:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIG25NdOWIshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MILiWY6xR14https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spdxWhKxpF8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P3TrGCMHNUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4f-GvR72REhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_5OTBIWcrQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-YT2OyyB8chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmXJo8xeb5chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81-v8ePXPd4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i30WDl8kPESpecial Thanks to Duncan Trussel, Joe Rogan, Ram Dass, Alex Grey and Allyson Grey for inspiring this episode. Additional thanks to the late Terrence McKenna and his brother, Dennis McKenna, as well as Lorenzo Hagerty for making true knowledge about Psychedelics plentiful, available, and thoroughly enjoyable.

Heron has a quick film recommendation. Tom explains the recording last week in the context of Lorenzo Hagerty's podcast and some blunt listener feedback that was sufficiently eloquent to be considered Tom's own feedback presented as someone else's feedback. Heron presents a miracle and Tom is becoming more mellow. They digress to Dating Naked and sexual programming. http://www.nobleape.com/stone/archive.html#154_5

Heron has a quick film recommendation. Tom explains the recording last week in the context of Lorenzo Hagerty's podcast and some blunt listener feedback that was sufficiently eloquent to be considered Tom's own feedback presented as someone else's feedback. Heron presents a miracle and Tom is becoming more mellow. They digress to Dating Naked and sexual programming. http://www.nobleape.com/stone/archive.html#154_5

Lorenzo Hagerty is an author, podcaster, entrepreneur and liver of many lives (check out his incredibly eclectic bio).  His show, The Psychedelic Salon, offers an extremely comprehensive collection of verbal serenades from disrupters and visionaries like Timothy Leary, the Alex Grey, Sasha Shulgin and many others. It’s definitely one of my go-to sources for brain-melting content. Peruse their library if you haven’t! We've also got the wonderful whimsical genius of Bruce Damer back on the show. Bruce is a researcher at UC Santa Cruz focused on origin of life related work and he’s most definitely got the gift of poetic yarn-spinning and man, does he have plenty of yarns to pull from!  For a full write-up and more, head to THIRDEYEDROPS

An exploration and tutorial about the do’s and don’ts of MDMA and so many other Teacher Plants through the amazing stories of Lorenzo Hagerty. The Psychedelic Salon  is operated by Lorenzo, who is also the original producer of the Palenque Norte lecture series at Burning Man. The mission of Matrix Masters can best be summed up […]

Lorenzo Hagerty is the host of the Psychedelic Salon podcast and author of Genesis Generation. We sit down with Lorenzo to discuss the world of entheogens and the current state of psychopharmacology. Go to psychedelicsalon.us and MAPS.org for more information. 

www.AlternativeHealthTools.com   Topics covered in this show The future of psychedelics and cannabis in medicine. Cannabis for sleep, pain management and tumors. All about the therapeutic benefits against PTSD and usage case studies of MDMA “Ecstasy.” Lorenzo is the self proclaimed “Carnival Barker” at the Psychedelic Salon podcast which started in 2005 with lectures from Burning Man. The cultural gold of Terence McKenna, Timothy Leary and Ralph Abrahams revealed. Mondo 2000. Synchronicity tells you you're on the right track. What's next? Ayahuasca Jonathan Ott Wellness Tip Have a relaxed attitude. Keep your mind knowing what's good in the world. Be transformational.   Recommended Links Lorenzo Hagerty, The Psychedelic Salon and Matrix Masters Burning Man The Omega Institute MAPS Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies YouTube with Dr. Charlie Grobb Your culture is not your friend The Vaults of EROWID Jonathan Ott Americans for Safe Access Drug Policy Alliance   Contact information Lorenzo Hagerty lorenzo@matrixmasters.com   www.LorenzoHagerty.com   Here's how you can spread the word If you enjoyed this episode, head on over to iTunes and please leave us a rating, a review and subscribe!   Ways to subscribe to Health and Wellness Encinitas Click here to subscribe via iTunes Click here to subscribe via RSS You can also subscribe via Stitcher   For more information www.HealthAndWellnessEncinitas.com www.ThorpInstitute.com   Produced by John Biethan and brought to you by:www.AlkaWay.com the makers of UltraStream - working like nature to filter, alkalise and naturally energize water, returning it to its natural pristine state.   Podsafe music permission of Plook. Find them here: http://www.reverbnation.com/Plook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Plook/164031980442261   DISCLAIMER                                          The information contained in these podcasts and on this website is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or health condition. Please consult a qualified healthcare professional to diagnose your health condition and prevent self diagnosis. We do not dispense medical advice or prescribe or diagnose illness.     The U.S. Food and Drug Administration or the American Medical Association have not evaluated, approved, or disapproved the material contained in these podcasts or on this website or its related material. No specific claims are made in relation to any health conditions or the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the devices contained in this website.

www.AlternativeHealthTools.com   Topics covered in this show The future of psychedelics and cannabis in medicine. Cannabis for sleep, pain management and tumors. All about the therapeutic benefits against PTSD and usage case studies of MDMA “Ecstasy.” Lorenzo is the self proclaimed “Carnival Barker” at the Psychedelic Salon podcast which started in 2005 with lectures from Burning Man. The cultural gold of Terence McKenna, Timothy Leary and Ralph Abrahams revealed. Mondo 2000. Synchronicity tells you you’re on the right track. What’s next? Ayahuasca Jonathan Ott Wellness Tip Have a relaxed attitude. Keep your mind knowing what’s good in the world. Be transformational.   Recommended Links Lorenzo Hagerty, The Psychedelic Salon and Matrix Masters Burning Man The Omega Institute MAPS Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies YouTube with Dr. Charlie Grobb Your culture is not your friend The Vaults of EROWID Jonathan Ott Americans for Safe Access Drug Policy Alliance   Contact information Lorenzo Hagerty lorenzo@matrixmasters.com   www.LorenzoHagerty.com   Here’s how you can spread the word If you enjoyed this episode, head on over to iTunes and please leave us a rating, a review and subscribe!   Ways to subscribe to Health and Wellness Encinitas Click here to subscribe via iTunes Click here to subscribe via RSS You can also subscribe via Stitcher   For more information www.HealthAndWellnessEncinitas.com www.ThorpInstitute.com   Produced by John Biethan and brought to you by:www.AlkaWay.com the makers of UltraStream - working like nature to filter, alkalise and naturally energize water, returning it to its natural pristine state.   Podsafe music permission of Plook. Find them here: http://www.reverbnation.com/Plook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Plook/164031980442261   DISCLAIMER                                          The information contained in these podcasts and on this website is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease or health condition. Please consult a qualified healthcare professional to diagnose your health condition and prevent self diagnosis. We do not dispense medical advice or prescribe or diagnose illness.     The U.S. Food and Drug Administration or the American Medical Association have not evaluated, approved, or disapproved the material contained in these podcasts or on this website or its related material. No specific claims are made in relation to any health conditions or the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the devices contained in this website.

Guest speakers: Lorenzo Hagerty & Chris Hedges PROGRAM NOTES: [NOTE: All quotations are by Chris Hedges.] “I think when we speak today about American values what we’re really speaking about are corporate-instilled values.” “When you spend over a decade brutalizing people, people become brutal.” “You can’t use the word ‘liberty’ when your government watches you […]

Heron has ticked off a life goal thanks to some listener intervention. The best source for Terence McKenna is Lorenzo Hagerty's Psychedelic Salon (http://matrixmasters.net/salon/). How good is the primary access to experiences? Tom talks about the escape trajectory. How do we communicate? Tom explores Heron's uncharted life and talks about the Mushroom Boy now embodied in a project (http://github.com/barbalet/mushroom). They rap on divergent populations versus the media. Nutbush City Limits and Kate Smith roll on. Heron's favorite wine glass is no more. Spiritual Communities contained a little note. They talk about when people care and it involves geographic movement. Heron needs to create new rituals. Heron returns to his experience from the week following a discussion on the smell of old pipes. Heron identifies that Tom has alienated a number of listeners. From a brief spell on alcoholism they wander into DVDs. Russian Roulette is a good metaphor for living as an adult. YouTube is better than reading. Tom raps on ancestry as a gateway to the sublime nature of intelligibility. Are there common threads in Tom's work? Tom throws out a fan demonized topic. Going to the DMV is a good way to find language monkeys. You get Heron's eyes for five minutes at most. Heron has no words of wisdom.

Comedian Rosie Tran (@FunnyRosie) interviews Lorenzo Hagerty (@PsychedelicLozo), host of the podcast, Psychedelic Salon. He talks about his interesting life from convervative Texas lawyer to Psychedelic advocate and peace warrior. Discussion of positive use of psychedelic drugs for therapy and exploring drugs in a safe and healthy way to increase awareness, consciousness, and expand your mind instead of just “getting high”. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/out-of-the-box-podcast/support

Lorraine has provided the questions this evening. Tom confesses his war on lip smacking. Heron rolls out his most disappointing comets of all time. Without a good internet connection, Heron is lost. Squish vs the matrix for intimacy? They rap about how long they can inhabit the same monkey. Lorraine gets them discussing vertebrates. Tom hasn't been sleeping - has he been sub-linguistic? Somehow they start arguing about tribal cultural myths. Tom raps on Joe Rogan and Lorenzo Hagerty's recording. Tom has been watching and listening to the Comic Book Men as a form to introduce the masses to podcasts. Is Heron cute? This enters a troubled conversation over gender differences. Lorraine asks about technology responsibility. Tom responds to a question on currency and the game. Heron reflects on post-life-insurance life. Tom visited Heron's alma mater for Thanksgiving. Heron run through his supplements. Tom raps on half-baked topics starting with life in a UK village. This gives Heron the perfect forum to conclude the show.

Lorraine has provided the questions this evening. Tom confesses his war on lip smacking. Heron rolls out his most disappointing comets of all time. Without a good internet connection, Heron is lost. Squish vs the matrix for intimacy? They rap about how long they can inhabit the same monkey. Lorraine gets them discussing vertebrates. Tom hasn't been sleeping - has he been sub-linguistic? Somehow they start arguing about tribal cultural myths. Tom raps on Joe Rogan and Lorenzo Hagerty's recording. Tom has been watching and listening to the Comic Book Men as a form to introduce the masses to podcasts. Is Heron cute? This enters a troubled conversation over gender differences. Lorraine asks about technology responsibility. Tom responds to a question on currency and the game. Heron reflects on post-life-insurance life. Tom visited Heron's alma mater for Thanksgiving. Heron run through his supplements. Tom raps on half-baked topics starting with life in a UK village. This gives Heron the perfect forum to conclude the show.

Guest speaker: Lorenzo Hagerty PROGRAM NOTES: This relatively short podcast features the audio portion of a film by Tom Huckabee and George Wada in conjunction with “The Starck Project”, a documentary soon to be released. The short film consists primarily of an interview with Lorenzo Hagerty dealing with the introduction of MDMA (Ecstasy) to the street scene in Dallas, Texas during the 1980s. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option The Starck Project The Starck Project's Facebook Page VIDEO FEATURES /* Confessions of an Ecstasy Advocate (video) Confessions of an Ecstasy Advocate from George Wada on Vimeo. The Cosmic Dance Scene If you aren't already familiar with the world-wide dance scene, this trailer will give you a feeling of where it was in 2011. /*

Lorenzo Hagerty is a former attorney, corporate CEO, and US Naval officer. He currently hosts the popular podcast "The Psychedelic Salon".

Lorenzo Hagerty is a former attorney, corporate CEO, and US Naval officer. He currently hosts the popular podcast "The Psychedelic Salon".

Lorenzo Hagerty is a former attorney, corporate CEO, and US Naval officer. He currently hosts the popular podcast "The Psychedelic Salon"

Guest speakers: Bruce Damer and Terence McKenna PROGRAM NOTES: This program is a recording of part of a live event at the Esalen Institute near Big Sur, California. The workshop, titled “Terence McKenna: Beyond 2012”, was led by Bruce Damer and Lorenzo Hagerty. This specific recording took place on Saturday morning, June 16th and consists of Bruce's “deep dive” into the mind of McKenna. It begins with Bruce's “Ode to Terence” and is followed by Bruce's readings of parts of the soon-to-be published book by Terence's brother, Dennis . . . the book's title: “Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss”. Download MP3 PCs – Right click, select option Macs – Ctrl-Click, select option “Ode to Terence” by Bruce Damer “Brotherhood of the Screaming Abyss” by Dennis McKenna