Podcasts about thi nguyen

C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher at the University of Utah, a former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, a rock climber, and one of the world's leading thinkers on the philosophy of games. His new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, argues that games are the defining art form of our era, and that the scoring systems that make them so joyful turn quietly destructive when institutions and apps wield them instead. In this conversation, Zoë and Brendan talk with CT about why ultrarunning is a game in the deepest philosophical sense, his concept of value capture and why it explains your relationship with Strava better than you'd like, what carbon plates and trekking poles reveal about game design, and why Bernard Suits, the philosopher who defined play as "voluntarily taking on unnecessary obstacles", thought games might literally be the meaning of life. Also: fly fishing pickup artists, the shot clock, elite yo-yoing, and Zoë's Smash Mouth Strava segment situation. This episode is brought to you by Running Warehouse, the best place to find shoes, kit, and gear from top brands, with honest reviews and filters that actually help.  Our featured race is the Baker Trail Ultra Challenge, a 50-mile point-to-point through the Cook Forest stretches of the North Country Trail in Western Pennsylvania with 6,200 feet of climbing and a three-part commemorative medal — complete all three sections and you get the full set. Registration closes August 28. Sign up at UltraSignup.com.  The Trailhead is part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network.

We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast

C. Thi Nguyen considers games of all kinds to be an art form, no less beautiful than cinema, literature, or music: but the qualities that make games aesthetically valuable are very different to those we associate with other media. In this episode of the podcast, he reveals how games create meaning -- and what happens when we apply the logic of game design to real life, in the form of scoring systems that dictate what is and is not good and valuable. Join us and find out how we can begin to reclaim nuance and personal choice from corporations, governments, and bureaucracies gameifying our world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Scoring systems are everywhere. Underpinning our daily lives – whether it's the fit bits on our wrists, likes on social media, and even school rankings – they have become pervasive and increasingly dangerous, warping our desires and outsourcing our values to external institutions. Instead of encouraging us to be more playful, to take pleasure in the journey of striving towards a goal, institutions, corporations and bureaucracies weaponize scoring systems to impose their own interests. No matter what, we always seem to be playing by someone else's rules.In The Score, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen shows us how this newly ‘gamified' world has fundamentally captured our value systems, turning what might be moral or personal life choices into numerical data, and forcing us to prioritise what can be measured and monetized over what is truly meaningful to us.A life-long lover of online and board games himself, Nguyen argues that we should not stop playing games but rather take a step back and become more aware of their immersive and profound power, so that we might chart a way towards more creative and joyful lives. To start playing our own game.About C. Thi NguyenC. Thi Nguyen is Associate Professor of Philosophy at the University of Utah, and a specialist in the philosophy of games, the philosophy of technology, and the theory of value. A former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, Nguyen is active in public philosophy, writing for the New York Times, Washington Post, New Statesman, and elsewhere.https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975COMMENT AT:https://substack.com/profile/126815820-david-malonehttps://www.instagram.com/hyperlandpodcast/https://www.facebook.com/groups/130898253302317Music by HYPERLANDGraphics by Caroline LargeImage NASA ID: PIA12348 Secondary Creator Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/ESA/CXC/STScI Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Episode 255- Art and Games with C. Thi Nguyen Professor C. Thi Nguyen returns to the pod!  We discuss process art, getting good, value capture, empathy, and his new book The Score.   Timestamps 2:00- about The Score 10:00- art is a game 18:30- how games affect us 25:00- depth and difficulty 32:30- getting good 45:00- empathy and intimacy 53:00- value capture 1:03:30- process art 1:18:00- closing thoughts   Preplanners Next week is a discussion of Isle of Skye!   Music and Sound Credits Thank you to Hembree for our intro and outro music from their song Reach Out. You can listen to the full song on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQuuRPfOyMw&list=TLGGFNH7VEDPgwgyNTA4MjAyMQ&t=3s You can find more information about Hembree at https://www.hembreemusic.com/.  Thank you to Flash Floods for use of their song Palm of Your Hand as a sting from their album Halfway to Anywhere: https://open.spotify.com/album/2fE6LrqzNDKPYWyS5evh3K?si=CCjdAGmeSnOOEui6aV3_nA Intermission Music: music elevator ext part 1/3 by Jay_You -- https://freesound.org/s/467243/ -- License: Attribution 4.0 Bell with Crows by MKzing -- https://freesound.org/s/474266/ -- License: Creative Commons 0 hammer v2.wav by blukotek -- https://freesound.org/s/337815/ -- License: Creative Commons 0   Contact Follow and reach us on social media on Bluesky @decisionspace.bsky.social. If you prefer email, then hit us up at decisionspa@gmail.com. This information is all available along with episodes at our new website decisionspacepodcast.com. Byeee!

Thi Nguyen draws on the philosophy of games to explain how scores and metrics impact our lives—and what we can do to use them more meaningfully. — YOU'LL LEARN — 1) How metrics can coopt our values and behavior2) The hidden costs of the desire to quantify everything3) Why the wrong people often seem to get aheadSubscribe or visit AwesomeAtYourJob.com/ep1133 for clickable versions of the links below. — ABOUT THI — C. Thi Nguyen is associate professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, and a specialist in the philosophy of games, the philosophy of technology, and the theory of value. A former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, Nguyen is active in public philosophy, writing for The New York Times, The Washington Post, New Statesman, and elsewhere.• Book: The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game• Website: Objectionable.net• Bluesky: @add-hawk— RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW — • Study: The Cultural Evolution of Bad Science by Paul Smaldino and Richard McElrath• Book: Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed (The Institution for Social and Policy St) by James Scott• Book: Trust and Antitrust: A Philosophical Exploration of Ethics by Annette Baier• Book: The Grasshopper - Third Edition: Games, Life and Utopia by Bernard Suits— THANK YOU SPONSORS! — • Monarch.com. Get 50% off your first year on with the code AWESOME.• Vanguard. Give your clients consistent results year in and year out with vanguard.com/AUDIO• Shopify. Sign up for your $1/month trial at Shopify.com/betterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The modern world swims in numbers: work metrics, fitness metrics, health metrics, social media metrics. Sometimes the quantification of life can make things better. But very often, I think they force us to play the games we can measure rather than the games we value. The quantified life has become a modern religion: a system of values that takes us over and keeps us from living the life we want. Today's guest is the philosopher C. Thi Nguyen. He is the author of the book The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. We talk about metrics, the games of life, and how to listen to the parts of ourselves that cannot be reduced to numbers. Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@PlainEnglishwithDerekThompson If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: C. Thi Nguyen Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today on The Gist, President Trump's marathon two-hour State of the Union address with a quick quiz: Can you spot the actual presidential claim among the fakes? Then, C. Thi Nguyen joins the show to unpack the powerful psychology behind our convictions. They discuss why our limiting beliefs are exactly like our own faces (we can't see them without a mirror), how chronic neuroplastic pain can be cured by simply teaching your brain you're safe, and why the placebo effect is somehow getting stronger every single year.  Produced by Corey Wara Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig Do you have questions or comments, or just want to say hello? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠thegist@mikepesca.com For full Pesca content and updates, check out our website at https://www.mikepesca.com/⁠ For ad-free content or to become a Pesca Plus subscriber, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://subscribe.mikepesca.com/ For Mike's daily takes on Substack, subscribe to The Gist List https://mikepesca.substack.com/ Follow us on Social Media:⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4_bh0wHgk2YfpKf4rg40_g⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram https://www.instagram.com/pescagist/ X https://x.com/pescami TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@pescagist To advertise on the show, contact ⁠⁠⁠⁠ad-sales@libsyn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://advertising.libsyn.com/TheGist

C. Thi Nguyen—philosopher, professor, and author of Games: Agency as Art—joins to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, and how metrics, from grades to likes, quietly reshape what we value and who we become. Together, they explore games as “libraries of agency,” the allure of scoring systems, and the vital question: Is this the game you really want to be playing?Learn more about our flagship conference happening this April at attend.ted.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is your watch making you a worse runner? We dig into two powerful books — The Way of Excellence by Brad Stulberg and The Score by C. Thi Nguyen — to unpack how metrics, Strava segments, and training scores can quietly hijack your motivation and identity as an athlete.We also tackle a wild listener question: a 23-year-old running 30 hundred-milers a year. We break down the real physiology — rhabdomyolysis, acute kidney injury, endocrine suppression — and the psychology of the attention economy, dopamine loops, and identity fusion.Plus Hot or Nots on running onesies, ankle weights, and legs up the wall. And meet Microcosm coach Kristin Layne, who specializes in multi-sport coaching for busy athletes.Key topics: value capture, intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, the 4 phases of competence, running by feel vs. running by data, RPE, and defining success on your own terms.Books discussed:The Way of Excellence — Brad StulbergThe Score — C. Thi NguyenWant coaching? microcosmcoaching@gmail.com | microcosm-coaching.com

Keywordsweather, play, philosophy, achievement, agency, creativity, metrics, education, value capture, qualitative assessmentSummaryIn this conversation, Lewis and Wem explore various themes surrounding play, philosophy, and the impact of metrics on society. They discuss the importance of play in fostering creativity and social connections, the differences between striving and achievement players, and the role of constraints in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the concept of value capture, the influence of technology on perception, and the need for qualitative assessments in education. They conclude by reflecting on the importance of process over product and the future of education in relation to play.TakeawaysMud everywhere!The weather can be deceiving.Books can deeply engage us.Play has philosophical implications.Striving players focus on the process.Constraints can enhance creativity.Value capture influences our perceptions.Metrics can simplify complex ideas.Education often prioritizes quantifiable data.The process of play is more important than the outcome.TitlesExploring the Mud: Weather and PlayThe Philosophy of Play and Learning sound bites"There's mud everywhere!""This book is amazing!""The process is beautiful!"Chapters00:00 The Muddy Reality of Weather08:16 Exploring the Depths of Play and Philosophy11:08 Understanding Player Mindsets: Achievement vs. Striving14:22 Facilitating Play: Agency and Autonomy in Games17:24 The Role of Games in Social Dynamics20:15 Process Beauty in Games: The Art of Overcoming Obstacles23:06 The Purpose vs. Goal in Play: Social Connection Over Competition37:08 The Sensual Act of Information Management40:21 Nature Connection and Purpose43:35 Metrics, Value Capture, and Scoring Systems50:16 The Influence of Technology on Perception56:47 The Four Horsemen of Value Capture01:05:55 The Balance of Quantitative and Qualitative Metrics01:10:41 Exploring Pedagogies and Their Metrics

The scoring mechanics of video games are ostensibly how the player is directed to have fun. Scores put interesting bounds on the experience of play, lead to creative solutions, and even inspire entirely new models of play, like speed running a video game. But when systems of metrics are applied to our actual lives, it's… not as nice. “Gamification” is just one symptom of our society's obsession with metrics, and while we tend to like to see Number Go Up, attempting to maximize our “scores” in various aspects of life only seems to make us unhappy. This week, Adam talks with C. Thi Nguyen, a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game. Together they unpack the hidden ways that metrics are used to control thought and limit perception of worth, and the life-affirming value of looking beyond the systems assembled around us. Find Thi's book at factuallypod.com/books--SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/adamconoverSEE ADAM ON TOUR: https://www.adamconover.net/tourdates/SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:» Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/factually-with-adam-conover/id1463460577» Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0fK8WJw4ffMc2NWydBlDyJAbout Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com.» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1» FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum» FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum» Advertise on Factually! via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah. His latest book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Thi Nguyen discuss why metrics both help and harm institutional decision-making, how game design principles can improve classroom learning, and whether some aspects of human life are inherently unmeasurable. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

To help organizations reap the benefits of AI while meeting regulatory requirements, many L&D teams are rolling out AI skills programs. But how do we design these programs in a way that shapes consistent, compliant behaviors, while helping colleagues develop the judgment they need to navigate messy, real-world situations? In this week's episode of The Mindtools L&D Podcast, Ross D and Cammy are joined by Alyn Kinney, Senior Learning and Development Manager at T-Mobile, to discuss: how organizations are supporting AI skills development; the potential drawbacks of a top-down, skills-based approach; how to deliver practical, problem-based AI skills programs at scale.  If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out Alyn's newsletter, Nerd Out. In 'What I Learned This Week', Ross D recommended C. Thi Nguyen's book The Score. For more from Mindtools Kineo, visit mindtools.com. There, you'll also find details of our new face-to-face and virtual workshops, and our off-the-shelf courses. Like the show? You'll LOVE our newsletter! Subscribe to The L&D Dispatch at lddispatch.com Connect with our speakers If you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, connect with us on LinkedIn: Ross Dickie Cammy Bean Alyn Kinney

Games are fun. Aren't they? When we play games — board games, video games, any kind of game — something magical happens. Games allow us to explore, to create little worlds where we can be different versions of ourselves. But when we turn life into a game — where we have to get the best grade, or the most money, or the most “likes” — then games stop being fun. Why is that? This week Sean speaks with philosopher C. Thi Nguyen about what a game really is, the difference between playing for enjoyment and playing to win, and why games lose their magic when the stakes become real. Thi argues that the things we value in life are increasingly captured by grades and likes and downloads and step counts and a thousand other metrics that quietly rewrite what we want and what we think makes us happy. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: C. Thi Nguyen, author of The Score We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Point systems are everywhere. Ready for movie night? Consult Rotten Tomatoes. Vetting a new pediatrician? See how many stars they have. At work, it can be even more pervasive: There's KPIs and ROIs because success has to be measurable.  But what happens when we boil something down to one nice number? What do we lose? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen, author of the new book The Score, joins Host Flora Lichtman to explore how metrics can be soul-crushing in work and in life, yet keeping score is freeing in the world of games. Read an excerpt from The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.Guest:Dr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. He's the author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.Transcripts for each episode are available within 1-3 days at sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Plus, to stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.

Almost every aspect of our life from the likes we get on social media to the professional metrics we receive have been in some ways gamified. Games are basically everywhere. What impact does this gamification have on our lives? C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah and the author of “The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.” He joins WITHpod to discuss why we've gamified so many things, why we are so drawn to keeping score, recapturing value that can't be obtained from data and more. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this episode meet writer Chuck Klosterman, philosophy professor C. Thi Nguyen, and founder of The Workspace for Children Lizzie Assa. Press play to hear how Chuck Klosterman began working on the book he'd been thinking about for decades, why C. Thi Nguyen describes his recording experience as “intense,” and what Lizzie Assa hopes parents will get from her audiobook. Football by Chuck Klosterman https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704152/football-by-chuck-klosterman/9798217282166/ The Score by C. Thi Nguyen https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735252/the-score-by-c-thi-nguyen/9798217163588/ But I'm Bored! by Lizzie Assa https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/775810/but-im-bored-by-lizzie-assa-msed/9798217160709/

In this episode meet writer Chuck Klosterman, philosophy professor C. Thi Nguyen, and founder of The Workspace for Children Lizzie Assa. Press play to hear how Chuck Klosterman began working on the book he'd been thinking about for decades, why C. Thi Nguyen describes his recording experience as “intense,” and what Lizzie Assa hopes parents will get from her audiobook. Football by Chuck Klosterman https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704152/football-by-chuck-klosterman/9798217282166/ The Score by C. Thi Nguyen https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735252/the-score-by-c-thi-nguyen/9798217163588/ But I'm Bored! by Lizzie Assa https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/775810/but-im-bored-by-lizzie-assa-msed/9798217160709/

My guest this week is philosophy professor and fly fisher Thi Nguyen [33:31], who has spent his career studying the psychology and the value of games to our mental well-being. He argues that fly fishing is not one game but an infinite number of games that can be played by rules that we invent to challenge ourselves. And you might even change your rules within a single day of fishing. This podcast and my discussions with him have changed the way I view and teach fly fishing and I hope the interview will be equally fascinating to you. The Fly Box this week has some interesting tips and questions. Perhaps not as thought-provoking but still interesting, and I hope helpful. Will a premium rod magnify my casting mistakes? Will my 4-weight Helios handle brown trout over 20 inches? Can you elaborate on why someone would want to use two indicators and how to set them up? Will my nymphs sink better with 12-pound fluorocarbon or with lighter tippet? I am confused by the differences in hook sizes recommended for various diameters of beads. They don't seem consistent. Can you help? A tip for using paper key tags to learn to identify various flies A tip for using parachute cord to eliminate the loss of small items Why do I see bugs under rocks in one part of a river and not in another?

Have you ever achieved a high GPA, crushed your Duolingo streak, or seen a surge of likes on social media… only to feel weirdly empty? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen attributes that joylessness to what he calls “value capture,” where rankings and metrics can replace our own values and start dictating goals for us. We talk to Nguyen about the difference between playful score keeping… and soul-sucking metrics. And we want to hear from you: Have you ever found yourself playing a game you didn't choose? Guests: C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher; author, “The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor and author of the book The Score: How To Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game and he joins us to talk about how his love for games led him to look at why we play them and the how they can define our value systems. Then, for Audio Sorbet, we want to know what new paths you've taken. Whether it was for a career or a hobby, how are you defining your joy? Finally, we close it out with This Shouldn't Be A Thing - Cattle Overlord Edition. As always, thank you for listening, texting and calling, we couldn't do this without you! Don't forget to download the free Civic Media app and take us wherever you are in the world! Matenaer On Air is a part of the Civic Media radio network and airs weekday mornings from 9-11 across the state. Subscribe to the podcast to be sure not to miss out on a single episode! You can also rate us on your podcast distribution center of choice. It goes a long way! Guest: C. Thi Nguyen

https://gettherapybirmingham.com/the-dark-reflection-adam-curtiss-all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/   Why is the most therapy-literate generation in history also the most depressed? This episode traces the hidden history connecting Cold War game theory, a 1964 pop psychology bestseller, and the mental health crisis devastating Gen Z. The thread starts with John Nash—the schizophrenic mathematician who built models assuming all humans are paranoid, self-interested calculators. It runs through Eric Berne's "Games People Play," which taught millions that relationships are just strategic transactions. It continues through Reagan, Thatcher, and the rise of CBT—a therapy model that treats your mind like buggy software. And it ends with a generation drowning in optimization, starving for meaning, and wondering why all their self-knowledge isn't helping. Featuring the tragic story of George Price, the scientist who slit his own throat trying to disprove his equation proving love is just calculation. Plus: why therapists can't legally unionize, how a secret committee of surgeons sets the price of your mental healthcare, and why the "just do it yourself" wellness movement is the final victory of the worldview that broke us. This isn't self-help. This is an autopsy of the assumptions we've been living inside. Topics covered: Game theory and psychology, Eric Berne transactional analysis, Adam Curtis The Trap, John Nash Beautiful Mind, CBT criticism, Gen Z mental health crisis, Theodore Porter Trust in Numbers, neoliberalism and therapy, Rosenhan experiment, C. Thi Nguyen gamification, purpose vs point, George Price equation, Wilhelm Reich, depth psychology, mental health policy   More @ https://gettherapybirmingham.com/  

In this conversation, the discussion with C. Thi Nguyen revolves around the nature of metrics, qualitative knowledge, and the duality of scoring systems, particularly in the context of climbing. The speaker shares personal experiences with climbing as a case study to illustrate how scoring systems can both enhance and detract from the experience. The conversation delves into the beauty of climbing, the subtlety of value in metrics, and the importance of savoring moments in games. It also explores the tension between purpose and game mechanics, the role of enjoyment, and the complexities of scoring systems in both games and life. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the challenges of balancing values in decision-making and the risks associated with the gamification of various aspects of life.Takeaways Metrics can miss the subtlety of qualitative knowledge. Scoring systems can enhance or detract from experiences. Climbing serves as a unique case study for scoring systems. The beauty of climbing lies in its scoring system. Values can become obscured when metrics are prioritized. Games allow for exploration of different scoring systems. Achievement play focuses on winning, while striving play values the process. External expectations can pressure individuals to conform to metrics. The addictive nature of games can lead to negative experiences.Chapters 00:00 The Intricacies of Portability and Judgment 01:12 Introduction and Social Media Presence 03:40 The Value of Climbing and Scoring Systems 07:16 The Impact of Numbers in Climbing 09:42 Savoring the Moment vs. Obsession with Scoring 10:59 Goals vs. Purpose in Games 12:39 Understanding Value Capture 17:53 The Shift in Standards of Success 20:33 The Limitations of Metrics 21:42 Games as a Reflection of Human Desire 24:37 The Purpose Behind Scoring Systems 26:07 The Magic Circle of Games 29:15 Achievement Play vs. Striving Play 34:47 When Games Become Unsafe 38:21 The Pitfalls of Portability in MetricsFollow Thi on Twitter, Bluesky, and find his website. You can get his book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com

What if the biggest threat to your freedom isn't a bad decision - but a scoreboard you never agreed to? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins Bankless to unpack how modern life quietly turns values into points: likes, GPAs, net worth, rankings, and performance metrics that feel objective - but often flatten what matters most. We explore what games really are, why “gamified” platforms like social media can be uniquely corrosive, and how “value capture” pulls you from meaning into measurable proxies. Then we get practical: playfulness, reflective control, and “value federalism” as ways to use metrics without letting them use you. ---

The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else’s Game by C. Thi Nguyen https://www.amazon.com/Score-Stop-Playing-Somebody-Elses/dp/0593655656 A philosophy of games to help us win back control over what we value The philosopher C. Thi Nguyen—one of the leading experts on the philosophy of games and the philosophy of data—takes us deep into the heart of games, and into the depths of bureaucracy, to see how scoring systems shape our desires. Games are the most important art form of our era. They embody the spirit of free play. They show us the subtle beauty of action everywhere in life in video games, sports, and boardgames—but also cooking, gardening, fly-fishing, and running. They remind us that it isn't always about outcomes, but about how glorious it feels to be doing the thing. And the scoring systems help get us there, by giving us new goals to try on. Scoring systems are also at the center of our corporations and bureaucracies—in the form of metrics and rankings. They tell us exactly how to measure our success. They encourage us to outsource our values to an external authority. And they push on us to value simple, countable things. Metrics don't capture what really matters; they only capture what's easy to measure. The price of that clarity is our independence. The Score asks us is this the game you really want to be playing?

My returning guest this week is C. Thi Nguyen, a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, and author of the new book The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. We discuss the nature of games, why it's problematic to build a society based on keeping score, and whether or not the real monster is always capitalism. Enjoy!The Score: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735252/the-score-by-c-thi-nguyen/Music by GW RodriguezEditing by Adam WikSibling Pod:Philosophers in Space: https://0gphilosophy.libsyn.com/Support us at Patreon.com/EmbraceTheVoidIf you enjoy the show, please Like and Review us on your pod app, especially iTunes. It really helps!This show is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.Next Episode: Lottocracy with Alex Guerrero

Being a Bob Dylan fan is a spectrum –whether you identify as a casual enjoyer if his music or a die-hard Bobcat, the umbrella is large and leaves room for multitudes. Over the past year, many Definitely Dylan episodes have circled around the relationship between artist and audience, how Bob Dylan presents himself and how he is perceived. In the final conversation of 2025 (which you're hearing in early 2026), we're approaching this topic from a new angle.My guest is Elizabeth Cantalamessa, an honest to god philosopher and one of the most fun people you can run into at a Bob Dylan show. We talk about Bob Dylan as the villain and trickster, selling out, and art as spiritual labour.You can download the C. Thi Nguyen essay “Trust and Sincerity in Art” here.Tiny correction:The “Is there anything more American than America” wasn't a Cadillac but a Chrysler commercial (watch it here). And btw, I'm burying this in the show notes because I'm not sure, but since we're mentioning Lucy Sante at some point in this episode, I wanted to add that in her preface to Six Sermons for Bob Dylan (the book of sermons she wrote for the Trouble No More film), she mentions that she wrote a “Buick commercial” for him. As far as I'm aware, Dylan has never done a Buick commercial, unless you count the song “From a Buick 6”, so I'm wondering if she was maybe referring to this Chrysler commercial.Bob Dylan and Santana - Toy Guns clipBob Dylan and Neil Young - “More of the same”Get your Definitely Dylan baseball cap here.You can support Definitely Dylan on Patreon or with a one-off donation at buymeacoffee.com/definitelydylan.Theme music by Robert Chaney

In this week's Book Club podcast, my guest is the philosophy professor C. Thi Nguyen, whose new book The Score: How To Stop Playing Someone Else's Game asks why rules and scores and metrics are so liberating in games, yet so deadening in real life. He tells me about the societal perils of our growing dependence on quantitative information, what Aristotle got right, and what yo-yos can tell us about the meaning of life.Become a Spectator subscriber today to access this podcast without adverts. Go to spectator.co.uk/adfree to find out more.For more Spectator podcasts, go to spectator.co.uk/podcastsContact us: podcast@spectator.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Everyone complains about cellphones. But there's something bigger and more insidious going on, from football teams and Netflix shows to law schools and Instagram. So philosopher C. Thi Nguyen offers some gamified advice for 2026, to plug the downside of data into the upside of your mind: Metrics help you win at work, but can you free yourself from the algo? Hyper-optimization has changed the NBA, but what about your kitchen? We've handed over complexity for competition, but is there time to steal back our humanity from A.I.? Plus: punk points, art governments, sore losers at Twister, a context-invariant kernel... and The Meat Sack.• Read "The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game" by C. Thi Nguyen Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Ever since C. Thi Nguyen appeared on the podcast, I've been trying to use games to understand more about the relationship between rules and life. Jay Dragon, whose game Wanderhome is almost ruleless, joins me to discuss games, rules, and anarchy, and we especially talk about how we can analyze oppressive real-world systems as if they're games.Here are some links for more from Jay:https://possumcreek.medium.com/https://possumcreekgames.com/

Theme music by UNIVERSFIELD & background music by PodcastACC. Thi Nguyen InterviewC. Thi Nguyen's websiteThe main subject of our conversation, Nguyen's book Games: Agency as ArtThe excellent interview Thi did on The Ezra Klein Show; highly recommendedThi's game recommendations: El Grande, Tigris & Euphrates, & RootGazza - Cheating in Chess vs GoChinese pro Go player Qin Siyue was banned for 8 years - linkShow your support hereEmail: AllThingsGoGame@gmail.com

In The Promise of Beauty (Duke UP, 2024), Mimi Thi Nguyen explores the relationship between the concept of beauty and narratives of crisis and catastrophe. Nguyen conceptualizes beauty, which, she observes, we turn to in emergencies and times of destruction, as a tool to identify and bridge the discrepancy between the world as it is and what it ought to be. Drawing widely from aesthetic and critical theories, Nguyen outlines how beauty—or its lack—points to the conditions that must exist for it to flourish. She notes that an absence of beauty becomes both a political observation and a call to action to transform the conditions of the situation so as to replicate, preserve, or repair beauty. The promise of beauty can then engender a critique of social arrangements and political structures that would set the foundations for its possibility and presence. In this way, Nguyen highlights the role of beauty in inspiring action toward a more just world. Mimi Thi Nguyen is Professor of Gender and Women's Studies at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. Her first book, called The Gift of Freedom: War, Debt, and Other Refugee Passages, focuses on the promise of “giving” freedom concurrent and contingent with waging war (Duke University Press, 2012; Outstanding Book Award in Cultural Studies from the Association of Asian American Studies, 2014). She is also co-editor with Fiona I.B. Ngo and Mariam Lam of a special issue of positions: asia critique on Southeast Asian American Studies (20:3, Winter 2012), and co-editor with Thuy Linh Nguyen Tu of Alien Encounters: Pop Culture in Asian America (Duke University Press, 2007). Her papers have been solicited for the Feminist Theory Archive at Brown University. Her second book is called The Promise of Beauty, and she is part of an editorial collective with Patty Ahn, Michelle Cho, Vernadette Vicuna Gonzalez, Rani Neutill, and Yutian Wong for Bangtan Remixed: A Critical BTS Reader; both books are being published with Duke University Press in 2024. She has also published in Signs, Camera Obscura, The Funambulist, Women & Performance, positions, Radical History Review, and ArtForum. Najwa Mayer is an interdisciplinary cultural scholar of race, gender, sexuality, and Islam in/and the United States, working at the intersections of politics, aesthetics, and critical theory. She is currently a Society of Fellows Postdoctoral Scholar at Boston University. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

In The Promise of Beauty (Duke UP, 2024), Mimi Thi Nguyen explores the relationship between the concept of beauty and narratives of crisis and catastrophe. Nguyen conceptualizes beauty, which, she observes, we turn to in emergencies and times of destruction, as a tool to identify and bridge the discrepancy between the world as it is and what it ought to be. Drawing widely from aesthetic and critical theories, Nguyen outlines how beauty—or its lack—points to the conditions that must exist for it to flourish. She notes that an absence of beauty becomes both a political observation and a call to action to transform the conditions of the situation so as to replicate, preserve, or repair beauty. The promise of beauty can then engender a critique of social arrangements and political structures that would set the foundations for its possibility and presence. In this way, Nguyen highlights the role of beauty in inspiring action toward a more just world. Mimi Thi Nguyen is Professor of Gender and Women's Studies at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. Her first book, called The Gift of Freedom: War, Debt, and Other Refugee Passages, focuses on the promise of “giving” freedom concurrent and contingent with waging war (Duke University Press, 2012; Outstanding Book Award in Cultural Studies from the Association of Asian American Studies, 2014). She is also co-editor with Fiona I.B. Ngo and Mariam Lam of a special issue of positions: asia critique on Southeast Asian American Studies (20:3, Winter 2012), and co-editor with Thuy Linh Nguyen Tu of Alien Encounters: Pop Culture in Asian America (Duke University Press, 2007). Her papers have been solicited for the Feminist Theory Archive at Brown University. Her second book is called The Promise of Beauty, and she is part of an editorial collective with Patty Ahn, Michelle Cho, Vernadette Vicuna Gonzalez, Rani Neutill, and Yutian Wong for Bangtan Remixed: A Critical BTS Reader; both books are being published with Duke University Press in 2024. She has also published in Signs, Camera Obscura, The Funambulist, Women & Performance, positions, Radical History Review, and ArtForum. Najwa Mayer is an interdisciplinary cultural scholar of race, gender, sexuality, and Islam in/and the United States, working at the intersections of politics, aesthetics, and critical theory. She is currently a Society of Fellows Postdoctoral Scholar at Boston University. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/critical-theory

Text us your questions!This is a re-release of an episode from our second season when we spoke with philosopher C Thi Nguyen. We think it bears re-listening in our current moment.=====What happens when we seek simple answers in a complex world? Philosopher C Thi Nguyen takes us into the machinery of belief, understanding, and value formation, exploring how we navigate information landscapes designed to manipulate us.Thi introduces the concept of "moral outrage porn"—representations that give us the satisfaction of moral righteousness without requiring meaningful action. We discuss conspiracy theories and his notion of "the seduction of clarity"—the powerful feeling we get from explanations that seem to make everything simple. This feeling is particularly dangerous because we're limited beings who need mental shortcuts to navigate the world.We also tackle echo chambers and why perfectly rational people can end up in them. Thi distinguishes echo chambers (where we systematically distrust outside sources) from filter bubbles (where we simply aren't exposed to contrary views), explaining that people inside echo chambers often follow logical procedures based on who they've decided to trust. This challenges the dismissive assumption that those with radically different beliefs are simply stupid or lazy.Weaving through discussions of game design, social media metrics, and institutional incentives, Thi reveals how our values are increasingly captured by simplified scoring systems that reshape our priorities according to what can be easily measured. The result? We outsource our complex human values to technologies and institutions that weren't designed to handle them.Uncomfortable yet?Content note: this episode contains profanity.=====Want to support us?The best way is to subscribe to our Patreon. Annual memberships are available for a 10% discount.If you'd rather make a one-time donation, you can contribute through our PayPal. Other important info: Rate & review us on Apple & Spotify Follow us on social media at @PPWBPodcast Watch & comment on YouTube Email us at pastorandphilosopher@gmail.com Cheers!

Subscribe, Rate, & Review on YouTube • Spotify • Apple PodcastsThis week's guest is my friend and inspiration, knowledge ecologist Christina Bowen. If I were to try and start a movement, I would call her first. Christina is CEO and co-founder of socialroots.io, an NSF- and Omidyar Network-funded software platform for cross-group collaboration that promotes aligned action and helps teams communicate legible impact metrics to stakeholders. Or, in the parlance of our times, she is a master of negotiating the complexities of human communication and community.She has deep, lived experience of what it takes to subvert the toxic status quo, cultivate the health of teams, and rethink our “social” spaces so they actually work for human beings. She also introduced me to the world of “mycopunk”, an earthier and more distributed alternative to solarpunk that places more priority on our relationships and narrative construction as an inherently collective project. This is a warm and grounded dialogue with someone I respect immensely as a force for betterment. Here is how her team describes their work and principles on their own website:Our greatest challenges as a global civilization will require an unprecedented amount of cooperation and may have been caused in large part by unmitigated competition. We have founded Socialroots on a few key principles, summarized below, to support this shift into a more healthy future.* Efficient coordination across groups enables more decentralized organizing and greater innovation.* Data is a commons and must be treated as such. Platform users need to be empowered when it comes to their data.* Power stays healthier when shared. We are dedicated to fair, transparent, and consent-driven work, enabling participatory communities to share values and approaches, and to approach teamwork informed by insights from healthy living systems.There you have it. I highly recommend you reach out to her and her team if you are trying to do better work in groups.Special Announcement: Join me for the first in a new series of live hangout calls for patrons on Saturday, January 18th at 2 pm Mountain Time! Let's foster real and lasting collaborations in a safe place for collective inquiry.Thank you and enjoy this episode!Project LinksLearn more about this project and read the essays so far (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).Make tax-deductible donations to Humans On The LoopBrowse my reading list and support local booksellersJoin the Holistic Technology & Wise Innovation Discord serverJoin the private Future Fossils Facebook groupHire me for consulting or advisory workChapters0:00:00 – Teaser0:01:31 – Intro0:06:58 – Meet Christina Bowen0:08:54 – Scaling Social Networks Without Burning Out0:14:00 – Working Out Loud in Small & Large Groups0:19:25 – Social Protocols of Coordination0:22:44 – Healthy Boundaries Online0:30:10 – Supporting Invisible or Illegible Labor0:40:50 – Subverting The Status (More-Than-Human) Pyramid0:51:44 – Salience Landscapes & Safe/Brave/Inclusive Spaces0:53:35 – AI-Augmented Communication & Spacemaking1:01:34 – Edge-Based Coherent Sensemaking vs. Toxic Hierarchies1:09:11 – Mindful Tech Use & Recommended Guests1:12:38 – OutroMentioned MediaMycopunk PrinciplesBuild Capacity: Scaling your network without burning outby Socialroots, Christina Bowen, Naomi Joy SmithWhat is coordination and why is it so important to effective networks?by Ana Jamborcic, Christina Bowen, SocialrootsIntimacy Gradients: The Key to Fixing Our Broken Social Media Landscapeby Socialroots, Ana JamborcicLet's subvert the status pyramidby Socialroots, Ana JamborcicWorking and learning out loudby Harold JarcheAlyssa Allegretti on Sacred Domesticity and Hard Times in The Liminal WebFuture Fossils Podcast 225Descartes' Errorby Antonio DamasioSeeing Like A Stateby James C. ScottC. Thi Nguyen on The Seductions of Clarity, Weaponized Games, and Agency as ArtFuture Fossils 175Amber Case & Michael Zargham on Entangled Technologies & Design As GovernanceFuture Fossils 213Stephen Reid on Technological MetamodernismFuture Fossils 226Nora Bateson on Warm Data vs. The Cold EquationsFuture Fossils 141The Dawn of Everythingby David Graeber & David WengrowGenerative Team Design: Innovation, Psychological Safety, and Empathyby Dara BlumenthalBeing Glueby Tanya ReillyIdentity Is Such A Dragby Luis Mojica and Sophie Strand on Holistic Life NavigationThe future is fungi: The rise and rhizomes of mushroom cultureby ASU Center for Science and The Imagination with Merlin Sheldrake, Kaitlin Smith, Jeff VanderMeer, and Corey PressmanOther Mentions• DWeb Camp• Responsive.org• Jeff Emmett• Plato• Bayo Akomolafe• Douglas Rushkoff• John Fullerton• Capitalinstitute.org• Cris Moore• Friedrich Hölderlin• Interspeciesinternet.io• Kumu.io• Joe Edelman• Pri Bertucci This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit michaelgarfield.substack.com/subscribe

My guest today is Michael Garfield, a paleontologist, futurist, writer, podcast host and strategic advisor whose “mind-jazz” performances — essays, music and fine art — bridge the worlds of art, science and philosophy. This year, Michael received a $10k O'Shaughnessy Grant for his “Humans On the Loop” discussion series, which explores the nature of agency, power, responsibility and wisdom in the age of automation. This whirlwind discussion is impossible to sum up in a couple of sentences (just look at the number of books & articles mentioned!) Ultimately, it is a conversation about a subject I think about every day: how we can live curious, collaborative and fulfilling lives in our deeply weird, complex, probabilistic world. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, “Hmm, that's interesting!”, check out our Substack. Important Links: Michael's Website Humans On The Loop Twitter Future Fossils Substack Show Notes: What is “mind jazz”? Humans “ON” the loop? The Red Queen hypothesis and the power of weirdness Probabilistic thinking & the perils of optimization Context collapse, pernicious convenience & coordination at scale How organisations learn Michael as World Emperor MORE! Books, Articles & Podcasts Mentioned: The Nature of Technology: What It Is and How It Evolves; by W. Brian Arthur Pharmako-AI; by K Allado-McDowell The Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind from the Big Bang to the 21st Century; by Howard Bloom The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism; by Howard Bloom One Summer: America, 1927; by Bill Bryson Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There; by Lewis Carroll The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World; by David Deutsch Scale Theory: A Nondisciplinary Inquiry; by Joshua DiCaglio Revenge of the Tipping Point: Overstories, Superspreaders and the Rise of Social Engineering; by Malcolm Gladwell The WEIRDest People in the World: How the West Became Psychologically Peculiar and Particularly Prosperous; by Joseph Henrich Do Conversation: There's No Such Thing as Small Talk; by Robert Poynton Reality Hunger: A Manifesto; by David Shields The Time Falling Bodies Take to Light: Mythology, Sexuality and the Origins of Culture; by William Irwin Thompson The New Inquisition: Irrational Rationalism and the Citadel of Science; by Robert Anton Wilson Designing Neural Media; by K Allado-McDowell Pace Layering: How Complex Systems Learn and Keep Learning; by Steward Brand Losing Humanity: The Case against Killer Robots; by Bonnie Docherty What happens with digital rights management in the real world?; by Cory Doctorow The Evolution of Surveillance Part 1: Burgess Shale to Google Glass; by Michael Garfield An Introduction to Extitutional Theory; by Jessy Kate Schingler 175 - C. Thi Nguyen on The Seductions of Clarity, Weaponized Games, and Agency as Art; Future Fossils with Michael Garfield

The post-election online chaos has a lot in common with what can go wrong in online survivor groups. Matthew tracks how opportunities for connection and solidarity can crater into gravity wells of recrimination, trauma-dumping, moral outrage porn, and the rise of new influence hierarchies. Not just because of differences in politics and values and temperament—but because of inequality and privilege.  A meditation on the difference between building a boat to sail in vs. a boat in a bottle, on considering the second arrow, and on when to log the fuck off.  Show Notes Mutual Aid Hub MORAL OUTRAGE PORN C. Thi Nguyen and Bekka Williams The Second Arrow — Sutta Central   Log the Fuck Off with Amber Frost, Matt Christman, & Ben Fong Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Games have always been central to the human experience, shaping the way we think, interact, and understand the world. This week, as part of our Authors in August series, David welcomes back philosopher C. Thi Nguyen to explore the deeper implications of games in our lives. From ancient pastimes to modern video games, we delve into why games matter, how they reflect our agency, and what they teach us about ourselves. With his book Games: Agency as Art, Nguyen reveals the profound ways games act as a form of artistic expression and how they can even influence the way we navigate life's challenges. Whether you're a dedicated gamer or simply curious about the philosophical underpinnings of play, this conversation offers insights that extend far beyond the gaming table.   Also, this is a reminder that our August Mailbag episode drops this Saturday. Whether you're on the road for Labor Day Weekend or just relaxing at home, be sure to tune in, our 106th consecutive monthly mailbag will be there for you! (1:34) Intro C.Thi Nguen (4:51) Why we play games (11:58) What does it mean to play a game? (19:13) Striving Play vs. Achievement Play  (31:21) A game that people think is not a game? (34:43) What's not a game people think is a game?  (54:13) Buy Sell or Hold Producer: Desirée Jones    

Games can serve as an escape from reality—but they can also shape our understanding of trust, collaboration, and what might be possible IRL. Megan Garber talks with C. Thi Nguyen, an associate philosophy professor at the University of Utah, to better understand how games can help us safely explore our current reality and shape new realities, too. Write to us at howtopodcast@theatlantic.com.  Music by Forever Sunset (“Spring Dance”), baegel (“Cyber Wham”), Etienne Roussel (“Twilight”), Dip Diet (“Sidelined”), Ben Elson (“Darkwave”), and Rob Smierciak (“Whistle Jazz”). How to Know What's Real is produced by Natalie Brennan. Our editors are Claudine Ebeid and Jocelyn Frank. Fact-check by Ena Alvarado. Our engineer is Rob Smierciak. The executive producer of audio is Claudine Ebeid, and the managing editor of audio is Andrea Valdez. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices