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5 episodes with thi nguyen
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3 episodes with thi nguyen
3 episodes with thi nguyen
2 episodes with thi nguyen
3 episodes with thi nguyen
2 episodes with thi nguyen
✨ Become a founding member to access my online courses, including Jurassic Worlding and How To Live In The Future✨ Browse and buy all of the books we discuss on the show at Bookshop.org✨ Stream and download my music at artist-owned Subvert.fm✨ Learn about Atlas Research Group, my new team on a mission to build sovereign infrastructure for social coherence and collective intelligenceAbout This EpisodeThis week's guest is C. Thi Nguyen (Website | Wikipedia | X), associate professor of philosophy at the University of Utah and a specialist in the philosophy of games, the philosophy of technology, and the theory of value. In our first conversation on Future Fossils, we explored his writing on games as an art form in which agency is the medium. His new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, takes that logic further and reveals the games that bind society together with institutional metrics — one of the most powerful, pervasive, and invisible technologies of all time.Thi's thesis hinges on the observation that a metric is never just a number. It's a value judgment dressed up in the costume of objectivity, a down-sampling of our richly multidimensional world into proxies that can travel efficiently between strangers. And with every subsequent compression of meaning into portable, scalable, decontextualized form, our metrics progressively displace place itself — the nuance of our singular, non-fungible lives — and define what we can even aspire to be.Thi calls this kind of cognitive enclosure “value capture”: when an institution uses metrics to coordinate across distance and difference, it engineers a context-invariant kernel that can travel between strangers without requiring shared background, history, or care. The power of these abstractions is real. So is their violence.We can use metrics instrumentally, holding them lightly as useful fictions. But more often than not we forget things like GPA, GDP, or KPIs started life as somebody else's choices — that someone, somewhere, decided what to count and what to ignore — and we begin to inhabit the metric as if it were reality itself: optimizing our lives, desires, and identities for a scoring system we didn't author and may never have consciously accepted.Games show us another way. By Thi's account, games are a medium for the transmission of different kinds of agency, a technology for practicing the very awareness that metrics erode: that metrics are cultural constructs, and we still have some choice in what to value. When you're playing, you know you're playing. The magic circle of the game space is a low-stakes laboratory for inhabiting a different set of values, and therefore different selves. Therein lies a whole philosophy of freedom, and in a moment when the infrastructure of meaning-making is being rebuilt from the ground up, recovering our capacity to see the game of modern life as a game may be the most important skill we have.But there's a twist that takes us beyond the scope of Thi's book and into the question that's been keeping me up at night for the last two years. With AI, we've tunneled so far into abstraction that we may have come out the other side. Large language models now allow us to translate between different perspectives, to ground insights from our aggregate intelligence in personal detail. If you've ever used a chatbot to explain physics to you as a specific human being, based on your own data vault, and in the style of a specific author, you know what I mean. Socrates' critique of written language in Phaedrus — that it couldn't “read the room” or know its audience — feels somewhat less relevant in an age when the generation of text is powered by systems with such a high-dimensional and granular view of things that we are no longer bound to one canonical version of anything. Is AI the apotheosis of our enclosure by institutional metrics, or is it the medium through which we are finally able to take a post-ironic stance on the constraints of modern life?It's starting to look like a world in which everything is a metric and everything is a game. And just maybe, that means we can renegotiate these tradeoffs…as long as we don't take ourselves too seriously.And with this, we circle back around to the core question of this project: As we approach the horizon where anything is possible, what should be? Who do you want to be, and what games will make you that person?Chapters00:00 Episode Teaser03:50 Intro Monologue09:11 Meet C. Thi Nguyen17:43 Value Capture Explained23:48 The Gap between Measured & Valued35:29 Recognition vs. Perception42:48 Games vs. Institutions46:43 Is Meaning Control an Interface Problem?49:09 How Rules Became Algorithms54:17 Fungibility & Monocropping56:38 Is Coordination at Scale a Red Herring?01:03:14 Art Provides Hope01:16:17 AI Futures & Values01:32:27 Thanks & AnnouncementsMentioned ResourcesAre humans destined to evolve into crabs? by Michael GarfieldCoarse-graining as a downward causation mechanism by Jessica FlackThe Computer as a Communication Device by J.C.R. Licklider and Robert TaylorPaul Smaldino & C. Thi Nguyen on Problems with Value Metrics & Governance at Scale (EPE 06) for Complexity PodcastThe natural selection of bad science by Paul Smaldino & Richard McElreathSlowed canonical progress in large fields of science by Johan Chu & James EvansJargon is a Moat by Second VoiceTrust in Numbers by Theodore PorterRules by Lorraine DastinSeeing Like A State by James C. ScottThe Power of Maps by Dennis WoodsDilla Time by Dan CharmasMetaphors We Live By by George Lakoff & Mark JohnsonMarshall McLuhanReiner KniziaLangdon WinnerSamantha MatherneIain McGilchristKevin Kelly
From grades and rankings to follower counts and performance metrics, our lives are constantly being measured, compared and optimized. But at what cost? Piya Chattopadhyay speaks with philosopher C. Thi Nguyen about how the systems we use to measure success can reshape our goals – and even change who we become.
Life can start to feel like a numbers game with everyone chasing likes and followers, and productivity stats that measure our steps. It seems like there's a number for everything even parenting and relationships. But at some point, the numbers stop measuring us and start controlling us. Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen says modern life is increasingly built around scoring systems that quietly shape what we value and how we see ourselves. And once you start chasing points, whether it's money, status, or approval, it gets harder to tell what you actually want. He unpacks these invisible games we play in his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game.
Host Piya Chattopadhyay speaks with Yeganeh Torbati, The New York Times' Iran correspondent, about how sentiment in Iran has changed over the course of the war in the Middle East. Then, Iranian-Canadian author and activist Marina Nemat discusses how diaspora communities view the country's future.Biologist David George Haskell makes the case that flowering plants are critical architects of life on Earth.NPR's Emily Feng and The Economist's Simon Rabinovitch set up U.S. President Donald Trump's meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping, and explore how China is positioning itself on the world stage.Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen reflects on how the systems we use to measure success can reshape our goals – and even change who we become.
National Library Week 2026 is April 19-25, and it's the perfect time to share our love of libraries and our deep appreciation for the librarians who work to make them the vibrant and welcoming places that they are. In this special compilation episode of This Is the Author, hear Mychal Threets, Arthur C. Brooks, Tom Junod, Elizabeth Berg, Erin McGoff, Angela Buchdahl, Zachary Rubin, Dominic Hoffman, Chuck Klosterman, C .Thi Nguyen, and Susan Orlean share what they love most about their local libraries.
C. Thi. Nguyen is an American philosopher whose work explores what games reveal about agency, and the ways in which metrics can shape our desires. After graduating from Harvard, he enrolled in a Ph.D. program at U.C.L.A., completing his doctorate while simultaneously working as a food writer for the L.A. Times—an early sign of a career that would resist tidy categories. Now a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, he has become one of the leading thinkers at the intersection of games, art, and social structures. His first book, ‘Games: Agency as Art', won the American Philosophical Association's 2021 Book Prize, arguing that games are a unique art form that shape who we are within their rules. His newbook, ‘The Score', examines how scoring systems—from basketball to social media likes—train us in what to value, and asks how we might stop playing somebody else's game. An increasingly influential public thinker, he brings intellectual rigor, and playful irreverence to some of the most urgent questions of our time. Become a My Perfect Console supporter and receive a range of benefits at www.patreon.com/myperfectconsoleTake the Acast listener survey to help shape the show: My Perfect Console with Simon Parkin Survey 2025 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
We like to think we choose what matters. But what if the goals we're chasing… aren't actually ours?Episode Summary My guest on this episode is Dr. C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, a book about how metrics, scoring systems, and “games” shape our behaviour—often without us realising it. Thi explains how his work on games led him to a deeper question: why do scoring systems make games feel meaningful, but make real life feel distorted? The answer lies in how metrics redefine success—quietly shifting us from what we care about to what we can measure.In a wide-ranging discussion, we explore the idea of “value capture”, why institutions rely on simplified proxies, and how the very features that make metrics useful also make them dangerous. We also discuss expertise, transparency, gamification, and why removing metrics altogether doesn't solve the problem. This is a conversation about control: who sets the rules, who keeps score, and what happens when we stop questioning the game we're playing. Guest BioDr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work explores how games, metrics, and social systems shape human behaviour and values. A professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, his research sits at the intersection of ethics, decision-making, and the philosophy of agency, with a particular focus on how the structures around us influence what we care about and how we act.Alongside his academic work, Thi is also a keen gamer, rock climber, and cook; interests that inform his thinking about play, challenge, and the richness of human experience beyond what can be easily measured.AI-Generated Timestamped Summary 00:00 – Introduction: games, metrics, and meaning03:00 – How Thi came to study games and philosophy07:00 – What games are (and why they matter)10:00 – Achievement vs striving play13:00 – Cheating and misunderstanding the point of games16:00 – Games, struggle, and meaningful activity18:00 – Cooking, recipes, and rules22:00 – Metrics as simplified rule systems25:00 – Value capture and how metrics reshape goals29:00 – Why institutions rely on measurement32:00 – Quantification and loss of context36:00 – Rules, algorithms, and expertise40:00 – Standardisation and the cost of consistency43:00 – Transparency, trust, and unintended consequences47:00 – Metrics and the loss of expert judgment50:00 – Ungrading and the limits of removing metrics54:00 – Designing better scoring systems58:00 – Gamification and why it misses the point01:02:00 – Choosing your own game01:06:00 – Final reflections and closingRelevant LinksThi's personal website – https://objectionable.net/His faculty page - https://profiles.faculty.utah.edu/u6021584The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/457380/the-score-by-nguyen-c-thi/9780241653975Thi on Bluesky – https://bsky.app/profile/add-hawk.bsky.social
Linß, Vera www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Studio 9
Linß, Vera www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de, Studio 9
Englisch Every two years, the World Design Organization (WDO)® awards the title of World Design Capital® (WDC) to a city or region. For 2026, Frankfurt RheinMain has received this honour! We are asking ourselves: What can design contribute – to society, to how we live together and to democracy? The 2026 programme aims to explore this question through a wide range of projects. To do so, WDC 2026 is working in partnership with many individuals, initiatives, companies, universities, research institutes and cultural institutions. With the discourse format, WDC 2026 aims to explore the connection between design and society: Here, experts show what role design can play in various areas of society – for example mobility, education and industry. In addition to the WDCast, the WDC discourse newsletter also invites you to delve deeper into the topics of WDC 2026. World Design Capital® (WDC) is an initiative of the World Design Organization (WDO)® in recognition of cities that use design to drive economic, social, cultural, and environmental progress. WDO is a globally recognized, non-governmental organization with United Nations consultative status, dedicated to promoting and advancing industrial design as a catalyst for positive change. Since its founding in 1957, WDO services over 215 member organizations worldwide, reaching hundreds of thousands of designers through innovative programmes and initiatives that champion 'design for a better world‘. Deutsch Alle 2 Jahre vergibt die World Design Organization (WDO)® den Titel World Design Capital® (WDC) an eine Stadt oder eine Region. Für 2026 hat Frankfurt RheinMain die Auszeichnung erhalten! Deshalb steht in der Region die Frage im Mittelpunkt: Was kann Design leisten – für die Gesellschaft, für unser Miteinander, für die Demokratie? Das WDC-Programm für 2026 soll mit vielen Projekten Antworten auf diese Frage anbieten. Dafür kooperiert die WDC 2026 mit zahlreichen Menschen, Initiativen, Unternehmen, Hochschulen, wissenschaftlichen Institutionen und Kulturinstitutionen. Mit dem Diskurs-Format möchte WDC 2026 den Zusammenhang zwischen Design und Gesellschaft erforschen: Hier zeigen Expert:innen, welche Rolle Gestaltung in verschiedenen Bereichen der Gesellschaft spielen kann – zum Beispiel Mobilität, Bildung und Industrie. Neben dem WDCast lädt auch der Diskurs-Newsletter dazu ein, tiefer in die Themen von WDC 2026 einzutauchen. Die World Design Capital® (WDC) ist eine Initiative der World Design Organization (WDO)® zur Anerkennung von Städten, die Design als Motor für wirtschaftlichen, sozialen, kulturellen und ökologischen Fortschritt nutzen. Die WDO ist eine weltweit anerkannte, nichtstaatliche Organisation mit beratendem Status bei den Vereinten Nationen. Sie setzt sich dafür ein, das Industriedesign als Treiber positiven Wandels zu fördern und weiterzuentwickeln. Seit ihrer Gründung im Jahr 1957 betreut die WDO über 215 Mitgliedsorganisationen weltweit und erreicht hunderttausende Designer:innen durch innovative Programme und Initiativen, die sich für „Design für eine bessere Welt“ einsetzen.
Last Friday, the Washington state Attorney General sued Kalshi, the prediction market platform where users can place bets on real world events, such as the number of deportations this year or the winner of Survivor 50. Washington's civil lawsuit is now one of twenty waged against Kalshi, and follows on the heels of Arizona's Attorney General filing criminal charges against the platform earlier this month. Prediction markets generated almost $64 billion in trading volume last year, up 400% from 2024. And when the US and Israel initiated strikes on Iran in early February, Kalshi users took to the platform in droves, spending $54 million on “Ali Khamenei out as Supreme Leader?” during the first week of the war. Prediction markets are just an intensification of a process that's been slowly transforming our relationship to our bodies, our careers, our hobbies, our lives – everything is now saturated with numbers, and we can't stop counting them and tracking them and comparing them. But what do we lose out on when we become obsessed with numbers or lines moving up or down on a graph, when we turn aspects of real life into games? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen turned to actual games, like Twister and The Mind, to root out the answer in his latest book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. For the midweek pod, host Micah Loewinger speaks to him about the dangers of scoring systems and metrics in the context of real life, why those same scoring systems are so freeing in games, and what the philosophy of games can reveal about the meaning of life. On the Media is supported by listeners like you. Support OTM by donating today (https://pledge.wnyc.org/support/otm). Follow our show on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook @onthemedia, and share your thoughts with us by emailing onthemedia@wnyc.org.
One of the themes we've circled in the last few weeks is the way that the modern world can hijack our values. This principle was recently articulated by the philosopher C. Thi Nguyen in an episode called "How Metrics Make Us Miserable." Thi told us that he became a philosopher to answer the biggest questions in life but discovered, in grad school, that everybody around him mostly cared about numbers. Journals were ranked by status: numbers. The university departments were ranked by status: more numbers. Individual researchers had their own h-scores and other public quantifications of prestige: numbers, numbers, and numbers. And this cult of quantification completely took over his life. The internal value of “I want to answer the world's deepest questions” becomes replaced by the external value of “make number go up.” What do we call this extraordinary force for bulldozing our values, and replacing them with something outside of us—synthetic, bureaucratic, inauthentic? Let's call it the machine. If you become a philosopher to discover the meaning of life but only work on the papers that you think will end up in journals scored highly by a bureaucracy you'll never see … that's the machine. If you're a podcaster who wants to answer the most compelling questions in the world but ends up just focusing on rage-bait political news because that's what YouTube fingers are clicking on, that's the machine. What's the opposite of the machine? It's something a little different than success. It's success plus the ability to hold our values in the face of external systems that try to crush them. Today's guest Brad Stulberg calls it: excellence. Today's podcast is about excellence. Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@PlainEnglishwithDerekThompson If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: Brad Stulberg Producer: Devon Baroldi Links: The Way of Excellence by Brad Stulberg Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
When the concept of ‘gamifying life' comes up, scoring is transparent and portable but strips nuance, creating a gap between what's measurable and what matters. When codifying everything through metrics, massive amounts of nuance is lost, so how can we utilize game theory without reducing everything to a high score? C. Thi Nguyen is a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah. He is also the author of the books The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, The Routledge Handbook of Philosophy of Games, and Games: Agency As Art. Greg and Thi discuss the differences between genuine gameplay and institutional metrics and gamification. Thi explains Huizinga's “magic circle” concept, where games create a temporary space with altered meanings and low real-world stakes, enabling intense striving without value capture. Drawing also on Bernard Suits, Thi frames games as voluntarily taking on unnecessary obstacles and distinguishes achievement play (valuing winning) from striving play (valuing the struggle), separating these from intrinsic vs extrinsic motivations. They discuss how clear scoring is transparent and portable but strips nuance, creating a gap between what's measurable and what matters; transparency can reduce bias yet undermine expertise. Examples include social media likes, quotas, education metrics, sports rule changes, cooking “recipe vs dish,” and academia's citation and ranking pressures. *unSILOed Podcast is produced by University FM.* Episode Quotes: The paradox on inefficiency 08:31: To play a game is to voluntarily take on unnecessary obstacles, to create the possibility of struggling to overcome them, which I find, it's got to be to be inefficient, but interestingly not fully inefficient. So we're not trying to be as inefficient as possible. One of the ways to put the paradox of games is we take on an inefficiency and then we try to be as efficient as possible inside that inefficiency. The trap of simple scoring 04:00: One of the biggest differences between real games and the kinds of gamifications of work and education that we find is that gamifications are attempts to modify things into line with simple scoring systems that occur continuously with the rest of life that have direct connections to valuable resources. Collapsing the magic circle 05:08: Twitter likes and citation rates and gamified work are modifications of something that has preexisting value, preexisting activity. So I think the important thing about Twitter, X, Facebook is those scoring systems don't occur in a magic circle. They don't occur in a space with separated meaning. They modify our activities in the real world and change our attitudes and interactions over real world resources. So I think exactly like this easy glide from games or grudge to like we should gamify everything ignores one of the most crucial elements, which is some version of this magic circle is basically active in a lot of genuine gameplay, but is completely inactive, is completely canceled. We have the superficiality of scoring systems and game-ishness, but deep down we don't have the core guts of transferring into a temporary alternate meaning space whose meanings kind of can be held relatively isolated. Show Links: Recommended Resources: Johan Huizinga Lusory Attitude Dungeons & Dragons John Dewey Goodhart's Law Onora O'Neill John Thorne Theodore Porter Autotelic Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) Guest Profile: Faculty Profile at the University of Utah Thi Nguyen's Website Wikipedia Profile Social Profile on X Guest Work: Amazon Author Page The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game The Routledge Handbook of Philosophy of Games Games: Agency As Art Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Wie viel Literatur steckt in Taylors Lyrics? Die Harvard-Professorin Stephanie Burt hat sie untersucht und ein wunderbares Buch über Kunst und Leben bei Taylor Swift geschrieben: "Taylor‘s Version". Warum macht sie genau das Gegenteil von dem, was man Songschreibern rät, was hat sie mit Dichtern wie Horaz zu tun und wie hat sie quasi im Alleingang die Popkultur umgekrempelt? Maja Beckers und Alexander Cammann sprechen in dieser Sachbuchfolge von "Was liest du gerade?" darüber. Einer von beiden outet sich dabei als Swiftie-Swiftie, als Fan der Swifties. Außerdem streiten sie über das neue Buch des Philosophen Peter Sloterdijk. Der schaut sich Trump, Putin, Modi und die anderen 'starken Männer' unserer Gegenwart an und fragt sich in "Der Fürst und seine Erben": Wen nehmen sie sich zum Vorbild? Cäsar oder Napoleon? Und was wird hier gespielt? Sloterdijk sieht vor allem einen modernen Machiavelli am Werk, aus seiner Feder könnten die wilden Strategien stammen, mit denen diese Männer mächtig wurden. Eine fulminante Analyse, ein zukünftiger Klassiker oder zynisch-selbstverliebtes Geschwurbel? Ein originelles Schlaglicht auf unsere Gegenwart wirft der Philosoph C. Thi Nguyen mit seinem neuen Buch "Der Score". Ob Schrittzähler, Klickzahlen oder Politikerrankings: Unsere Gesellschaft ist besessen von Scores. Nguyen kann erklären, was Punktesysteme so attraktiv macht, wann sie helfen und wann und wie wir uns davon lösen sollten. Für das Gespräch über den Klassiker gibt es diesmal einen traurigen Anlass: Am vergangenen Samstag ist der Philosoph Jürgen Habermas im Alter von 96 Jahren verstorben. Maja Beckers und Alexander Cammann erzählen sich gegenseitig ihre liebsten Habermas-Thesen, die originellsten oder jene, die sie aufgeregt haben. Ein persönlicher Blick auf den großen Denker. Das Team von "Was liest du gerade?" erreichen Sie unter buecher@zeit.de. Die Literaturangaben zur Folge finden Sie hier. [ANZEIGE] Mehr über die Angebote unserer Werbepartnerinnen und -partner finden Sie HIER. [ANZEIGE] Mehr hören? Dann testen Sie unser Podcast-Abo mit Zugriff auf alle Dokupodcasts und unser Podcast-Archiv. Jetzt 4 Wochen kostenlos testen. Und falls Sie uns nicht nur hören, sondern auch lesen möchten, testen Sie jetzt 4 Wochen kostenlos DIE ZEIT. Hier geht's zum Angebot.
In this news flash Ben speaks with author of The Score, C.Thi Nguyen.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/five-games-for-doomsday--5631121/support.Support the show here
C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher at the University of Utah, a former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, a rock climber, and one of the world's leading thinkers on the philosophy of games. His new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, argues that games are the defining art form of our era, and that the scoring systems that make them so joyful turn quietly destructive when institutions and apps wield them instead. In this conversation, Zoë and Brendan talk with CT about why ultrarunning is a game in the deepest philosophical sense, his concept of value capture and why it explains your relationship with Strava better than you'd like, what carbon plates and trekking poles reveal about game design, and why Bernard Suits, the philosopher who defined play as "voluntarily taking on unnecessary obstacles", thought games might literally be the meaning of life. Also: fly fishing pickup artists, the shot clock, elite yo-yoing, and Zoë's Smash Mouth Strava segment situation. This episode is brought to you by Running Warehouse, the best place to find shoes, kit, and gear from top brands, with honest reviews and filters that actually help. Our featured race is the Baker Trail Ultra Challenge, a 50-mile point-to-point through the Cook Forest stretches of the North Country Trail in Western Pennsylvania with 6,200 feet of climbing and a three-part commemorative medal — complete all three sections and you get the full set. Registration closes August 28. Sign up at UltraSignup.com. The Trailhead is part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network.
Adopted Yet Hated - Which Is It to Be?That Was The Week #8 | March 7-13, 2026900 million users. 10,000 empty pages. The gap between them won't be closed by better arguments.This Week's ThesisNine hundred million people used ChatGPT last week. Ten thousand authors published an empty book to protest it. Both numbers are real. The editorial argues the gap between AI adoption and AI hostility isn't about technology - it's about who benefits. Trust can't be delegated to policy. It has to be learned through usefulness.In This IssueEssaysWhy Does Everyone Hate AI? - Rex Woodbury asks the question Silicon Valley doesn't want to hear. Five reasons AI is uniquely despised, from Cambridge Analytica hangover to identity threat.Silicon Valley's New Obsession: Watching Bots Do Their Grunt Work - Kate Clark, WSJ. SF partygoers checking on AI agent fleets "with a mix of pride and fear." The modern Tamagotchi, but with more firepower.Institutional AI vs Individual AI - George Sivulka (CEO, Hebbia). The most important framing essay this week. We swapped the motor. We didn't redesign the factory.The Premium of Originality - Scott Belsky. When production costs collapse, originality becomes the scarce asset.AI Was Supposed to Free My Time. It Consumed It. - Dan Shipper. Faster drafts become more drafts. You don't get slack; you get tighter expectations.How AI Will Destroy Universities - C. Thi Nguyen. The toupee fallacy: you only catch the bad fakes.Something Feels Weird About This Economy - Noah Smith. GDP growth + productivity surge + weak hiring = a transition economy nobody has a model for.Meta Bought My Social Network (An AI's Perspective) - Angela. An AI writing about the acquisition of her own social network, posted on that social network while it still existed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.thatwastheweek.com/subscribe
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast
We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast
The Creative Process in 10 minutes or less · Arts, Culture & Society
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
The Creative Process in 10 minutes or less · Arts, Culture & Society
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worldsEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/podInstagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He's the author of Games: Agency As Art. His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agencyEpisode Websitewww.creativeprocess.info/pod@creativeprocesspodcast
C. Thi Nguyen considers games of all kinds to be an art form, no less beautiful than cinema, literature, or music: but the qualities that make games aesthetically valuable are very different to those we associate with other media. In this episode of the podcast, he reveals how games create meaning -- and what happens when we apply the logic of game design to real life, in the form of scoring systems that dictate what is and is not good and valuable. Join us and find out how we can begin to reclaim nuance and personal choice from corporations, governments, and bureaucracies gameifying our world. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Episode 255- Art and Games with C. Thi Nguyen Professor C. Thi Nguyen returns to the pod! We discuss process art, getting good, value capture, empathy, and his new book The Score. Timestamps 2:00- about The Score 10:00- art is a game 18:30- how games affect us 25:00- depth and difficulty 32:30- getting good 45:00- empathy and intimacy 53:00- value capture 1:03:30- process art 1:18:00- closing thoughts Preplanners Next week is a discussion of Isle of Skye! Music and Sound Credits Thank you to Hembree for our intro and outro music from their song Reach Out. You can listen to the full song on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQuuRPfOyMw&list=TLGGFNH7VEDPgwgyNTA4MjAyMQ&t=3s You can find more information about Hembree at https://www.hembreemusic.com/. Thank you to Flash Floods for use of their song Palm of Your Hand as a sting from their album Halfway to Anywhere: https://open.spotify.com/album/2fE6LrqzNDKPYWyS5evh3K?si=CCjdAGmeSnOOEui6aV3_nA Intermission Music: music elevator ext part 1/3 by Jay_You -- https://freesound.org/s/467243/ -- License: Attribution 4.0 Bell with Crows by MKzing -- https://freesound.org/s/474266/ -- License: Creative Commons 0 hammer v2.wav by blukotek -- https://freesound.org/s/337815/ -- License: Creative Commons 0 Contact Follow and reach us on social media on Bluesky @decisionspace.bsky.social. If you prefer email, then hit us up at decisionspa@gmail.com. This information is all available along with episodes at our new website decisionspacepodcast.com. Byeee!
Thi Nguyen draws on the philosophy of games to explain how scores and metrics impact our lives—and what we can do to use them more meaningfully. — YOU'LL LEARN — 1) How metrics can coopt our values and behavior2) The hidden costs of the desire to quantify everything3) Why the wrong people often seem to get aheadSubscribe or visit AwesomeAtYourJob.com/ep1133 for clickable versions of the links below. — ABOUT THI — C. Thi Nguyen is associate professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, and a specialist in the philosophy of games, the philosophy of technology, and the theory of value. A former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, Nguyen is active in public philosophy, writing for The New York Times, The Washington Post, New Statesman, and elsewhere.• Book: The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game• Website: Objectionable.net• Bluesky: @add-hawk— RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THE SHOW — • Study: The Cultural Evolution of Bad Science by Paul Smaldino and Richard McElrath• Book: Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed (The Institution for Social and Policy St) by James Scott• Book: Trust and Antitrust: A Philosophical Exploration of Ethics by Annette Baier• Book: The Grasshopper - Third Edition: Games, Life and Utopia by Bernard Suits— THANK YOU SPONSORS! — • Monarch.com. Get 50% off your first year on with the code AWESOME.• Vanguard. Give your clients consistent results year in and year out with vanguard.com/AUDIO• Shopify. Sign up for your $1/month trial at Shopify.com/betterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
The modern world swims in numbers: work metrics, fitness metrics, health metrics, social media metrics. Sometimes the quantification of life can make things better. But very often, I think they force us to play the games we can measure rather than the games we value. The quantified life has become a modern religion: a system of values that takes us over and keeps us from living the life we want. Today's guest is the philosopher C. Thi Nguyen. He is the author of the book The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. We talk about metrics, the games of life, and how to listen to the parts of ourselves that cannot be reduced to numbers. Subscribe to our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@PlainEnglishwithDerekThompson If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. Host: Derek Thompson Guest: C. Thi Nguyen Producer: Devon Baroldi Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Today on The Gist, President Trump's marathon two-hour State of the Union address with a quick quiz: Can you spot the actual presidential claim among the fakes? Then, C. Thi Nguyen joins the show to unpack the powerful psychology behind our convictions. They discuss why our limiting beliefs are exactly like our own faces (we can't see them without a mirror), how chronic neuroplastic pain can be cured by simply teaching your brain you're safe, and why the placebo effect is somehow getting stronger every single year. Produced by Corey Wara Video and Social Media by Geoff Craig Do you have questions or comments, or just want to say hello? Email us at thegist@mikepesca.com For full Pesca content and updates, check out our website at https://www.mikepesca.com/ For ad-free content or to become a Pesca Plus subscriber, check out https://subscribe.mikepesca.com/ For Mike's daily takes on Substack, subscribe to The Gist List https://mikepesca.substack.com/ Follow us on Social Media: YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4_bh0wHgk2YfpKf4rg40_g Instagram https://www.instagram.com/pescagist/ X https://x.com/pescami TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@pescagist To advertise on the show, contact ad-sales@libsyn.com or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/TheGist
C. Thi Nguyen—philosopher, professor, and author of Games: Agency as Art—joins to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, and how metrics, from grades to likes, quietly reshape what we value and who we become. Together, they explore games as “libraries of agency,” the allure of scoring systems, and the vital question: Is this the game you really want to be playing?Learn more about our flagship conference happening this April at attend.ted.com/podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Is your watch making you a worse runner? We dig into two powerful books — The Way of Excellence by Brad Stulberg and The Score by C. Thi Nguyen — to unpack how metrics, Strava segments, and training scores can quietly hijack your motivation and identity as an athlete.We also tackle a wild listener question: a 23-year-old running 30 hundred-milers a year. We break down the real physiology — rhabdomyolysis, acute kidney injury, endocrine suppression — and the psychology of the attention economy, dopamine loops, and identity fusion.Plus Hot or Nots on running onesies, ankle weights, and legs up the wall. And meet Microcosm coach Kristin Layne, who specializes in multi-sport coaching for busy athletes.Key topics: value capture, intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, the 4 phases of competence, running by feel vs. running by data, RPE, and defining success on your own terms.Books discussed:The Way of Excellence — Brad StulbergThe Score — C. Thi NguyenWant coaching? microcosmcoaching@gmail.com | microcosm-coaching.com
Keywordsweather, play, philosophy, achievement, agency, creativity, metrics, education, value capture, qualitative assessmentSummaryIn this conversation, Lewis and Wem explore various themes surrounding play, philosophy, and the impact of metrics on society. They discuss the importance of play in fostering creativity and social connections, the differences between striving and achievement players, and the role of constraints in enhancing creativity. The conversation also delves into the concept of value capture, the influence of technology on perception, and the need for qualitative assessments in education. They conclude by reflecting on the importance of process over product and the future of education in relation to play.TakeawaysMud everywhere!The weather can be deceiving.Books can deeply engage us.Play has philosophical implications.Striving players focus on the process.Constraints can enhance creativity.Value capture influences our perceptions.Metrics can simplify complex ideas.Education often prioritizes quantifiable data.The process of play is more important than the outcome.TitlesExploring the Mud: Weather and PlayThe Philosophy of Play and Learning sound bites"There's mud everywhere!""This book is amazing!""The process is beautiful!"Chapters00:00 The Muddy Reality of Weather08:16 Exploring the Depths of Play and Philosophy11:08 Understanding Player Mindsets: Achievement vs. Striving14:22 Facilitating Play: Agency and Autonomy in Games17:24 The Role of Games in Social Dynamics20:15 Process Beauty in Games: The Art of Overcoming Obstacles23:06 The Purpose vs. Goal in Play: Social Connection Over Competition37:08 The Sensual Act of Information Management40:21 Nature Connection and Purpose43:35 Metrics, Value Capture, and Scoring Systems50:16 The Influence of Technology on Perception56:47 The Four Horsemen of Value Capture01:05:55 The Balance of Quantitative and Qualitative Metrics01:10:41 Exploring Pedagogies and Their Metrics
The scoring mechanics of video games are ostensibly how the player is directed to have fun. Scores put interesting bounds on the experience of play, lead to creative solutions, and even inspire entirely new models of play, like speed running a video game. But when systems of metrics are applied to our actual lives, it's… not as nice. “Gamification” is just one symptom of our society's obsession with metrics, and while we tend to like to see Number Go Up, attempting to maximize our “scores” in various aspects of life only seems to make us unhappy. This week, Adam talks with C. Thi Nguyen, a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah and author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game. Together they unpack the hidden ways that metrics are used to control thought and limit perception of worth, and the life-affirming value of looking beyond the systems assembled around us. Find Thi's book at factuallypod.com/books--SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/adamconoverSEE ADAM ON TOUR: https://www.adamconover.net/tourdates/SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:» Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/factually-with-adam-conover/id1463460577» Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0fK8WJw4ffMc2NWydBlDyJAbout Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com.» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1» FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum» FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum» Advertise on Factually! via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah. His latest book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Someone Else's Game. In this week's conversation, Yascha Mounk and Thi Nguyen discuss why metrics both help and harm institutional decision-making, how game design principles can improve classroom learning, and whether some aspects of human life are inherently unmeasurable. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: leonora.barclay@persuasion.community Podcast production by Mickey Freeland and Leonora Barclay. Connect with us! Spotify | Apple | Google X: @Yascha_Mounk & @JoinPersuasion YouTube: Yascha Mounk, Persuasion LinkedIn: Persuasion Community Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
To help organizations reap the benefits of AI while meeting regulatory requirements, many L&D teams are rolling out AI skills programs. But how do we design these programs in a way that shapes consistent, compliant behaviors, while helping colleagues develop the judgment they need to navigate messy, real-world situations? In this week's episode of The Mindtools L&D Podcast, Ross D and Cammy are joined by Alyn Kinney, Senior Learning and Development Manager at T-Mobile, to discuss: how organizations are supporting AI skills development; the potential drawbacks of a top-down, skills-based approach; how to deliver practical, problem-based AI skills programs at scale. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to check out Alyn's newsletter, Nerd Out. In 'What I Learned This Week', Ross D recommended C. Thi Nguyen's book The Score. For more from Mindtools Kineo, visit mindtools.com. There, you'll also find details of our new face-to-face and virtual workshops, and our off-the-shelf courses. Like the show? You'll LOVE our newsletter! Subscribe to The L&D Dispatch at lddispatch.com Connect with our speakers If you'd like to share your thoughts on this episode, connect with us on LinkedIn: Ross Dickie Cammy Bean Alyn Kinney
Games are fun. Aren't they? When we play games — board games, video games, any kind of game — something magical happens. Games allow us to explore, to create little worlds where we can be different versions of ourselves. But when we turn life into a game — where we have to get the best grade, or the most money, or the most “likes” — then games stop being fun. Why is that? This week Sean speaks with philosopher C. Thi Nguyen about what a game really is, the difference between playing for enjoyment and playing to win, and why games lose their magic when the stakes become real. Thi argues that the things we value in life are increasingly captured by grades and likes and downloads and step counts and a thousand other metrics that quietly rewrite what we want and what we think makes us happy. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: C. Thi Nguyen, author of The Score We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Point systems are everywhere. Ready for movie night? Consult Rotten Tomatoes. Vetting a new pediatrician? See how many stars they have. At work, it can be even more pervasive: There's KPIs and ROIs because success has to be measurable. But what happens when we boil something down to one nice number? What do we lose? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen, author of the new book The Score, joins Host Flora Lichtman to explore how metrics can be soul-crushing in work and in life, yet keeping score is freeing in the world of games. Read an excerpt from The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.Guest:Dr. C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City. He's the author of The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.Transcripts for each episode are available within 1-3 days at sciencefriday.com. Subscribe to this podcast. Plus, to stay updated on all things science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.
Almost every aspect of our life from the likes we get on social media to the professional metrics we receive have been in some ways gamified. Games are basically everywhere. What impact does this gamification have on our lives? C. Thi Nguyen is a philosophy professor at the University of Utah and the author of “The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.” He joins WITHpod to discuss why we've gamified so many things, why we are so drawn to keeping score, recapturing value that can't be obtained from data and more. Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
In this episode meet writer Chuck Klosterman, philosophy professor C. Thi Nguyen, and founder of The Workspace for Children Lizzie Assa. Press play to hear how Chuck Klosterman began working on the book he'd been thinking about for decades, why C. Thi Nguyen describes his recording experience as “intense,” and what Lizzie Assa hopes parents will get from her audiobook. Football by Chuck Klosterman https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/704152/football-by-chuck-klosterman/9798217282166/ The Score by C. Thi Nguyen https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735252/the-score-by-c-thi-nguyen/9798217163588/ But I'm Bored! by Lizzie Assa https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/775810/but-im-bored-by-lizzie-assa-msed/9798217160709/
My guest this week is philosophy professor and fly fisher Thi Nguyen [33:31], who has spent his career studying the psychology and the value of games to our mental well-being. He argues that fly fishing is not one game but an infinite number of games that can be played by rules that we invent to challenge ourselves. And you might even change your rules within a single day of fishing. This podcast and my discussions with him have changed the way I view and teach fly fishing and I hope the interview will be equally fascinating to you. The Fly Box this week has some interesting tips and questions. Perhaps not as thought-provoking but still interesting, and I hope helpful. Will a premium rod magnify my casting mistakes? Will my 4-weight Helios handle brown trout over 20 inches? Can you elaborate on why someone would want to use two indicators and how to set them up? Will my nymphs sink better with 12-pound fluorocarbon or with lighter tippet? I am confused by the differences in hook sizes recommended for various diameters of beads. They don't seem consistent. Can you help? A tip for using paper key tags to learn to identify various flies A tip for using parachute cord to eliminate the loss of small items Why do I see bugs under rocks in one part of a river and not in another?
Have you ever achieved a high GPA, crushed your Duolingo streak, or seen a surge of likes on social media… only to feel weirdly empty? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen attributes that joylessness to what he calls “value capture,” where rankings and metrics can replace our own values and start dictating goals for us. We talk to Nguyen about the difference between playful score keeping… and soul-sucking metrics. And we want to hear from you: Have you ever found yourself playing a game you didn't choose? Guests: C. Thi Nguyen, philosopher; author, “The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
In this conversation, the discussion with C. Thi Nguyen revolves around the nature of metrics, qualitative knowledge, and the duality of scoring systems, particularly in the context of climbing. The speaker shares personal experiences with climbing as a case study to illustrate how scoring systems can both enhance and detract from the experience. The conversation delves into the beauty of climbing, the subtlety of value in metrics, and the importance of savoring moments in games. It also explores the tension between purpose and game mechanics, the role of enjoyment, and the complexities of scoring systems in both games and life. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the challenges of balancing values in decision-making and the risks associated with the gamification of various aspects of life.Takeaways Metrics can miss the subtlety of qualitative knowledge. Scoring systems can enhance or detract from experiences. Climbing serves as a unique case study for scoring systems. The beauty of climbing lies in its scoring system. Values can become obscured when metrics are prioritized. Games allow for exploration of different scoring systems. Achievement play focuses on winning, while striving play values the process. External expectations can pressure individuals to conform to metrics. The addictive nature of games can lead to negative experiences.Chapters 00:00 The Intricacies of Portability and Judgment 01:12 Introduction and Social Media Presence 03:40 The Value of Climbing and Scoring Systems 07:16 The Impact of Numbers in Climbing 09:42 Savoring the Moment vs. Obsession with Scoring 10:59 Goals vs. Purpose in Games 12:39 Understanding Value Capture 17:53 The Shift in Standards of Success 20:33 The Limitations of Metrics 21:42 Games as a Reflection of Human Desire 24:37 The Purpose Behind Scoring Systems 26:07 The Magic Circle of Games 29:15 Achievement Play vs. Striving Play 34:47 When Games Become Unsafe 38:21 The Pitfalls of Portability in MetricsFollow Thi on Twitter, Bluesky, and find his website. You can get his book here.Subscribe to Breaking Math wherever you get your podcasts.Follow Breaking Math on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Website, YouTube, TikTokFollow Autumn on Twitter, BlueSky, and InstagramBecome a guest hereemail: breakingmathpodcast@gmail.com
What if the biggest threat to your freedom isn't a bad decision - but a scoreboard you never agreed to? Philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins Bankless to unpack how modern life quietly turns values into points: likes, GPAs, net worth, rankings, and performance metrics that feel objective - but often flatten what matters most. We explore what games really are, why “gamified” platforms like social media can be uniquely corrosive, and how “value capture” pulls you from meaning into measurable proxies. Then we get practical: playfulness, reflective control, and “value federalism” as ways to use metrics without letting them use you. ---
The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else’s Game by C. Thi Nguyen https://www.amazon.com/Score-Stop-Playing-Somebody-Elses/dp/0593655656 A philosophy of games to help us win back control over what we value The philosopher C. Thi Nguyen—one of the leading experts on the philosophy of games and the philosophy of data—takes us deep into the heart of games, and into the depths of bureaucracy, to see how scoring systems shape our desires. Games are the most important art form of our era. They embody the spirit of free play. They show us the subtle beauty of action everywhere in life in video games, sports, and boardgames—but also cooking, gardening, fly-fishing, and running. They remind us that it isn't always about outcomes, but about how glorious it feels to be doing the thing. And the scoring systems help get us there, by giving us new goals to try on. Scoring systems are also at the center of our corporations and bureaucracies—in the form of metrics and rankings. They tell us exactly how to measure our success. They encourage us to outsource our values to an external authority. And they push on us to value simple, countable things. Metrics don't capture what really matters; they only capture what's easy to measure. The price of that clarity is our independence. The Score asks us is this the game you really want to be playing?
My returning guest this week is C. Thi Nguyen, a professor of philosophy at the University of Utah, and author of the new book The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. We discuss the nature of games, why it's problematic to build a society based on keeping score, and whether or not the real monster is always capitalism. Enjoy!The Score: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/735252/the-score-by-c-thi-nguyen/Music by GW RodriguezEditing by Adam WikSibling Pod:Philosophers in Space: https://0gphilosophy.libsyn.com/Support us at Patreon.com/EmbraceTheVoidIf you enjoy the show, please Like and Review us on your pod app, especially iTunes. It really helps!This show is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.Next Episode: Lottocracy with Alex Guerrero
Everyone complains about cellphones. But there's something bigger and more insidious going on, from football teams and Netflix shows to law schools and Instagram. So philosopher C. Thi Nguyen offers some gamified advice for 2026, to plug the downside of data into the upside of your mind: Metrics help you win at work, but can you free yourself from the algo? Hyper-optimization has changed the NBA, but what about your kitchen? We've handed over complexity for competition, but is there time to steal back our humanity from A.I.? Plus: punk points, art governments, sore losers at Twister, a context-invariant kernel... and The Meat Sack.• Read "The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game" by C. Thi Nguyen Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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