Podcast appearances and mentions of Michael Mark

coaching book club michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 8, 2022 22:13

Want to get a report card about how your training gym is doing? Want to identify exactly where to focus your efforts? Get your FREE assessment HERE. Learn more about BFU: Unicorn Society - Our coaching group Coaching - 1-on-1 coaching Mark on YouTube - More fit biz musings

Episode 136: Tracking Team Performance with Key Metrics with Michael, Mark, and Pete

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Play Episode Listen Later Jun 17, 2022 24:42

Federal interest rates to change; Exploring Putin’s People with Catherine Belton; Plus, a conversation with Michael Mark Cohen

KPFA - UpFront

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 15, 2022 119:58

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Episode 126: Best and Worst Ways to Communicate with Your Full Team with Michael, Mark, and Pete

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Play Episode Listen Later May 13, 2022 25:16

Episode 124: How to Leverage Your Team's Best Thinking with Michael, Mark, and Pete

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Play Episode Listen Later May 6, 2022 20:40

Your Goal: Clients that absolutely LOVE your business, stay longer, and grow your business for you? Your Solution: BFU's next course Clients for Life. Learn more HERE. *********** Want to get a report card about how your training gym is doing? Want to identify exactly where to focus your efforts? Get your FREE assessment HERE. Learn more about BFU: Unicorn Society - Our coaching group Coaching - 1-on-1 coaching Mark on YouTube - More fit biz musings

Episode 121: Why You Should Stop Sending Traditional Email Newsletters with Michael, Mark and Pete

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Play Episode Listen Later Apr 15, 2022 22:46

Your Goal: Clients that absolutely LOVE your business, stay longer, and grow your business for you? Your Solution: BFU's next course Clients for Life. Learn more HERE. Sign up by April 17th and save! *********** Want to get a report card about how your training gym is doing? Want to identify exactly where to focus your efforts? Get your FREE assessment HERE. Learn more about BFU: Unicorn Society - Our coaching group Coaching - 1-on-1 coaching Mark on YouTube - More fit biz musings

Episode 120: The 4 Most Important Goals for Every Gym Manager with Michael, Mark and Pete

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Play Episode Listen Later Apr 11, 2022 22:31

Episode 118: Michael, Mark, and Pete on What's Currently Working in Customer Service

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Play Episode Listen Later Mar 28, 2022 32:29

Your Goal: Clients that absolutely LOVE your business, stay longer, and grow your business for you? Your Solution: BFU's next course, Clients for Life. Learn more HERE. Sign up by April 17th and save! *********** Want to get a report card about how your training gym is doing? Want to identify exactly where to focus your efforts? Get your FREE assessment HERE. Learn more about BFU: Unicorn Society - Our coaching group Coaching - 1-on-1 coaching Mark on YouTube - More fit biz musings

Episode 117: Michael, Mark and Pete on Prioritizing "Deep Work"

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Play Episode Listen Later Mar 21, 2022 26:10

Episode 115: Michael, Mark & Pete Share the Magic of Great Meetings

magic meetings michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 7, 2022 24:32

Want to get a report card about how your training gym is doing? Want to identify exactly where to focus your efforts? Get your FREE assessment HERE. Learn more about BFU: Unicorn Society

The Fly Woman - The Fly/The Wasp Woman

Doubled Feature

Play Episode Listen Later Mar 3, 2022 69:07

Bugs are back on the pod and this time they are real life bugs and none of those animated fake bugs. The Fly(1958) Directed by Kurt Neumann. Starring David Hedison, Patricia Owens and Vincent Price. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgDypzKO5co&ab_channel=MovieclipsClassicTrailers The Wasp Woman(1959) Directed by Roger Corman. Starring Susan Cabot, Anthony Eisley and Michael Mark. Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwwWehtYGko&ab_channel=ScreamFactoryTV Twitter: @DoubledFeature Instagram: DoubledFeature Email: DoubledFeaturePodcast@Gmail.com Dan's Twitter: @DannyJenkem Dan's Letterboxd: @DannyJenkem Max's Twitter: @Mac_Dead Max's Letterboxd: @Mac_Dead Executive Producer: Koolaid --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/doubledfeature/message

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Episode 101: Michael, Mark & Pete Share the Most Common Mistakes Gym Owners Make

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Play Episode Listen Later Nov 22, 2021 23:46

Michael, Mark, and Pete are back with another episode of the season. This time, they discuss the most common mistakes they see fitness business owners make. This week, we discussed: Reactive vs. proactive hiring Raising prices Creating standard operating procedures Work with us: Unicorn Society Business for Unicorns mark@businessforunicorns.com michael@businessforunicorns.com pete@businessforunicorns.com

AIB.Ep.153.AskAngelRelaunch.062721

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Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2021 49:57

Super angel Michael Mark and marketing wiz Kathryn Roy take questions on the topic of angel investing. This was recorded before a live audience at gorgeous Babson College, a university dedicated to teaching entrepreneurship. Sal, as usual, finds it hard to keep his opinions to himself! Topics covered include: Recorded on the Beautiful Campus of Babson College, Thanks to Margaret Jones & Nina Block Michael Mark Mini Bio Kathryn Roy Mini Bio Michael Mark on What Angel Investing Is Not – Not the Best Way to Make a Lot of Money Kathryn's Thoughts on Making Money in Angel Investing Question from Mark T.: What's the Minimum Number of Startup Investments to Get a Good ROI? Audience Question: What Are the Three or Four Things You Look for In a Startup? Startup Founder Davey Bakhshi Asks a Question - Fundraising Pointers Davey Bakhshi: Do you Invest in Founders from Other Countries? Have a Real Sales Funnel for your Fundraising – Willy Loman Beats Einstein Monthly Communication with Your Investors and Constituents Lisa's Question: What Would You Do Differently Today as a Founder Given the Changes? Go to an Incubator What Has Not Changed in Fundraising Question from Listener Martin Aboitiz: What Startups Do You Regret Not Investing In? “Another Train Leaving Every 15 Minutes.” – Michael Mark Question from Kit, a Freshman at Babson: Can You Build Business without Raising Money? Audience Question from Alan, an MBA Student at Babson: Notes vs. Priced Rounds? Audience Question from Marcos, an MBA Student at Babson: How Long Does It Take to Build Trust? Topics: co-founders, raising money, returns, angel investing strategies

ep. 92 - Michael Mark

Rattlecast

Play Episode Listen Later May 12, 2021 110:09

Rattlecast #92 features frequent contributor Michael Mark. Michael Mark’s poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in Alaska Quarterly Review, Michigan Quarterly Review, Pleiades, Ploughshares, Poetry Daily, River Styx, Salamander, The Southern Review, The New York Times, The Sun, Verse Daily, Waxwing, American Life in Poetry, and other places. He was the recipient of the Anthony Hecht Scholarship at the Sewanee Writers’ Conference. He’s the author of two books of stories, Toba and At the Hands of a Thief (Atheneum). Michael Mark lives with his wife Lois in San Diego. For more info on the poet, visit: http://www.michaeljmark.com/ As always, we'll also include live open lines for responses to our weekly prompt or any other poems you'd like to share. For details on how to participate, either via Skype or by phone, go to: https://www.rattle.com/rattlecast/ This Week's Prompt: This Lithub article details the 32 “most iconic” poems in the English language. Read, or reread, a few and write a poem that replies to one of these works. https://lithub.com/the-32-most-iconic-poems-in-the-english-language/ Next Week’s Prompt: Write a reverse poem—a poem with lines that can be read both forward and backward. The Rattlecast livestreams on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and Periscope, then becomes an audio podcast.

Episode 75: Bonus Episode with Michael, Mark... and Pete!

Jesse Lee Peterson Radio Show

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 30, 2021 21:23

Mark and Michael are back with another bonus episode of the season...this time with a special guest and an announcement! In this episode, Mark, Pete, and Michael talk about: Having a bench of people you can hire from Having an effective internship program

michael mark

09/08/20 Tuesday, Hour 1: UN Goes Full Anti-Patriarchy SJW

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 8, 2020 60:00

JLP goes to a protest… and the people are truly deceived! They totally believe that Joe Biden is going to win. Intellectuals are running everything, and everything is messed up! JLP predicts Mike Pence might have a hard time dealing with Kamala Harris. UN Security Council blames the patriarchy for the state of the world… Michael from Raleigh, NC wonders how Jesse can talk so poorly about black women. —- Back to Michael… Mark from Houston, TX is the young guy that is into older women. He says praying hasn't helped his interest in older women (50 years old!). He says younger women don't like being treated well.

4 September - Nasdaq down, Truworths results and the JSE's new meeting policy

MoneywebNOW

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 4, 2020 20:31

Mia Kruger of Kruger International on markets and company results as the US markets sell off overnight. Michael Mark, Truworths CEO, on results, managing the pandemic and changing customer shopping patterns. The JSE's Donald Khumalo on no-meeting Wednesdays at the JSE.

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Results with Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths

The Asset Class by Strictly Business

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2020 9:39

Results with Michael Mark the CEO of Truworths

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Results with Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths

The Asset Class by Strictly Business

Play Episode Listen Later Sep 3, 2020 9:39

Results with Michael Mark the CEO of Truworths

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Michael Mark, Super Angel Investor and Founder - Best Pivots Ever

The Remote Real Estate Investor

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 29, 2020 57:53

Join Sal's Investment Syndicate: Click Here Super angel investor Michael Mark tells fascinating stories that take us from the precocious founding of his first startup straight out of MIT to his being a highly-prized investor in hundreds of startups today. The narratives are interwoven with valuable lessons on how tech startups are built in Boston's vibrant entrepreneurial ecosystem. They include entertaining observations of subjects ranging from comedians to co-founders. Some of the most interesting pivots (radical changes of business plan) are elucidated. Michael’s dry wit and unassuming manner make his deep wisdom accessible to all of us. If you liked this episode subscribe in iTunes or Google Play so that new episodes will automatically appear in your player. You can find us by searching for Sal Daher or Angel Invest Boston. Do take the time to review us. Sign up at https://www.AngelInvestBoston.com if you want to be made aware of upcoming in-person events. Obviously, this is of particular interest if you are in Boston or environs. You can also follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn and on Twitter @AngelInvestBOS Topics we touched on: The best pivots ever! Need for focus When to pivot How frequently business plans work out Hiring a CEO Qualities of the founders Role of luck in startups What a board of directors can do for the startup How Michael got started in entrepreneurship Pixability Exos Loop Pay Bettina Hein Beth Marcus Will Graylin Progress Software Cadmus Interleaf Netegrity Underware

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Ask Us Anything #2: Scaling, Wholesalers, Auctions & Foreclosure Sites, and Roofstock Market Selections

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 27, 2020 39:06

In our second Ask Us Anything, Tom and Michael bring on guest host, Mark Woodling to tackle listener submitted questions on buying from wholesalers, the difference between auction and foreclosure sites, preferences between umbrella policies and LLCs, tax liens, how Roofstock selects markets and more. --- Transcript Tom: Greetings and welcome to The Remote Real Estate Investor. And today's episode, we're doing another ask me anything. And on today's episode, we have myself, Tom Schneider. We also have one of our hosts, Michael. Michael, say hello. Michael: Hey everybody, how's it going? Tom: And we also have a guest host today with some special expertise in the auction world, as well as some experience on tax liens of wholesales and all that good stuff. So we have Mark with us today. Mark Woodling say hello. Mark: Hey, thanks for having me on. Tom: All right, let's do it. Theme Song ♫ Tom: Welcome back. We have another ask me anything episode, super excited about it and let's jump right into it. So, as we mentioned before, with some of these questions that we saw, you know, they might not be in our wheelhouse, so we wanted to bring in experts and that's why we are fortunate to have Mark Woodling on today. So, Mark, do you want to give the 32nd kind of pitch on all the interesting stuff that you've done in the real estate space to give a little bit of background? Uh, you've been on an episode before, but maybe a brief reminder to folks who haven't listened to that episode. Mark: Sure, sure. Thanks for having me on guys. I work as the director of local market growth for Roofstock. So really it's a unique role where I work on opening up new markets and how we can really bring new supply into those markets, but it's kind of a unique role. So having a unique background was really why they picked me for this cause I used to go around the country, traveling to tax lien, auctions. I would go and bid for a private equity firm around the country about 26 different States every single year. So a young buck out of college really had no limits, I guess you could say, but learning the real estate game, I've also worked at Fannie Mae in the recession. I was there in their auction group. So we're selling about 18,000 properties a year, just through auction in all 50 States in DC. And then after that worked at a company called Xome X-O-M-E and was their chief auctioneer and with selling glide, the Countrywide portfolio that was kind of leftover toxic asset group after the recession. So, you know, became licensed as an auctioneer in 27 different States and it was doing everything online. So have a bit of a marketplace background as well as just a ton of unique kind of distress real estate background. Tom: Awesome. Love it. Well, well, let's jump right into it. So our first question we have came in from LinkedIn. This is from Dave and Dave asks, what's the best way to scale your portfolio in the smallest amount of time. And let's see, Michael, do you want to take the first pass at this one? Or do you want me to lead the way? Michael: Yeah, I would say just get a bunch of money. Tom: Honestly. The way that I was thinking about this question is kind of twofold. It's like if you have a bunch of money, that's a different answer, right? So if you have a lot of money already, like, okay, getting into portfolios, just buying portfolios outright, or, you know, building a fund with an actual like employment of like acquisition folks like that works really well, but let's go ahead and assume this question is if you don't have a money machine in your basement and you're just scaling and scrapping, what would be your feedback on the quickest way to scale in the shortest amount of time with the limitation on funds? Michael: I think that there's going to be no quicker way to scale than by partnering with people that have what you don't have. And so if money is tight, you don't have the money go out and make a name for yourself as someone who can put deals together and acquire doors. And I would rather there's this very famous, I don't know how famous it is, but a lot of people say, you know, I'd rather have 50% of one deal than a 100% of no deals. And so if acquisition scaling is the name of the game, go find people that don't have the time or the knowhow or the ability to put deals together and bring them to those people who are looking to get into the real estate game and have the money to do so. That would be my advice. Mark, what do you think? Mark: I think you're right in line where going to portfolio route really is the easiest way, because then again, you're dealing with one property manager in one city, you know, if you're spreading yourself too thin, you can buy a lot of properties in different markets, but then again, you're having to manage all these property managers and that takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of resources of your own. So I think if you're going to get right to it, you really need to focus on a concentrated area of figuring out diversity, maybe within one market or a few markets, and really figuring out, you know, how to leverage your time when you only have so much time. Tom: My last little tidbit I'll add on this is the best way to scale your portfolio. My recommendation is really tapping into your, any appreciation and equity that you have in ramping up your leverage as much as possible. Now there's some downsides and risks. If values go the opposite way. And you're only planning on holding these a short period of time. There's some risks for getting under water where the loan is worth more than the property. But if you're trying to squeeze as much dollar as you can into scaling and building acquisitions, it would be basically getting the most leverage that you can. So every single dollar of equity you can have, you're using to scale scale scale. So excellent. Let's go on to the next question. And we have a shout out to Michael on this question, Michael, why don't you read this question? Michael: This next question comes to us from Ricardo from Walnut Creek and Ricardo is a good buddy of mine. So the question is what's up Roofstock, shout out to my boy, Michael Albaum. This question has to do with working with wholesalers, from what I've seen, you can get some pretty spectacular deals with less competition, but it seems you assume much more risk as far as condition of the property, as well as constraints with financing. What has been your experience working with wholesalers? And what advice would you tell to a new investor who are the wholesalers and what do they do? How do they make money and how do you find them? So, Mark, do you want to take a stab at this one with your background? Mark: Yeah, absolutely. I go to a lot of mastermind groups and you know, these mastermind groups are really for more advanced real estate investors and many of them are actually wholesalers, but they also and hold. And then, you know, they have their fix and flip models and so forth, but wholesaling could be a very lucrative business because when you put a property under contract, right, you're tying up the contract, that buyer who tied it up under contract is then going to sell their equitable interest, right. They're selling that contract and assigning it to someone else. So they really don't have a specific range of, you know, how much they can make and they don't need to be a real estate licensee. So anybody could be a wholesaler. Really so if you want to get to really who the wholesalers are and what they do, you need to go find guys that are doing this for a living. They go really find great properties that are going to be marketable to the masses. And they will tie up that property. They'll sit down, visit the property, take pictures, you know, run some after repair value type values. And then they present it to the market as off market deals. So, you know, their job is really go out there when I call bird dog, right? They're the boots on the ground. They're spending a lot of money on marketing and then tying up these opportunities to then sell it without having have any risk or money down besides a small earnest money deposit. So it's not that they own the property ever. They only have it under contract and how they make money. So they'll say at closing, I'm going to make a certain amount of money or they can say, Hey, you're going to have to put $5,000 down and I'll give you my contract. And so they're going to make money one way or the other. And the thing is, you're never connected to the person actually selling the property at the beginning. So, you know, things go a different direction, you know, it can get kind of sticky. So you really need to know who you're dealing with and really have some trust and not just chase after deals because the property may not be in great condition. And you may never even see the property before you tie it up under contract by how you find them. I'll just finish up on that. You know, the interesting part about that is you can go to Facebook and get on investment groups and say, Hey, I am a qualified buyer. I have cash rate of spend in a specific market. And here's my email address, put me on your buyer list. So you're kind of putting yourself out there and into the worldwide web a little bit and exposing yourself, but that's a great way just to get on these lists and see what kind of flow comes through. But again, these don't sit on the market for very long. So you really need to be able to act quickly in order to take advantage of those opportunities. But yeah, wholesaling's a wild West game. So, you know, proceed with caution. Tom: Sure. I'm going to paraphrase a little bit. So at a super high level wholesalers, they're out looking for distressed or people need to sell right away. That's right. And they basically get it in contract this wholesaler, and then they sell that contract and never actually take ownership. Right. They almost, it's almost like an arbitrage position. Am I accurately depicting that? Mark: Exactly. That's exactly the way to put it. Tom: Awesome. Michael: Tom, have you ever bought a wholesale deal, a deal from a wholesaler? Tom: I have not. You know, I definitely have been approached to sell to wholesalers. Their marketing is relentless. Michael: We buy homes for cash! Tom: We buy ugly homes. Those guys are all the wholesaler ecosystem. And it's funny, the list of people that they're looking to potentially buy from. It's a kind of a rough list. They're like looking for death divorce, like whatever, kind of like quickly to sell. So, you know, as an investor, there's some potential to buy some off market deals from wholesalers, but you know, to Mark's point, you know, you got to still have a really good diligence process and know the deal. Yeah, no, your buy box. Awesome. All right. So this next question we have is from Andy Dobbs in New Jersey. So Andy asks, does Roofstock provide property management or do we need to find one ourselves? Mark, do you want to take the lead on this guy? Mark: Sure. So Roofstock doesn't actually provide the property management, but we do guide you through the process of how to find really qualified property management companies. So we take a significant amount of time when we bring on what we call our preferred property managers, we certify them and vet them to make sure that they really do work well with outside investors. So, you know, being an investor from out of state, you do have a different level of expectation with property managers because you will never see that property. You, you may not even be able to drive by it, right? So they can really be your eyes and ears. So we establish that network. So that really transitions to investors, having higher levels of confidence. So we will always guide you in that direction and have great profiles on our website, but you are always free to manage with an outside vendor, but you know, these are always great vendors that we're dealing with on a massive scale. So we do see, you know, how they're acting around other investors and that's great data to make sure that we're always working with the best. Tom: Yeah. And you know, I think it's great that Roofstock does this initial diligence, but I highly recommend as an investor doing that extra step and giving them a call and asking for some references and making that decision and you don't have to use one of Roofstock's property managers that has gone through this process. It's just available for you as a resource. And if you want to, you can self manage or you can find a different third party, property manager, you have options. It's just kind of giving you a step ahead in that process. Excellent. So this next question we have is from Steve in St. Louis. So Steve asks, so he's seen auction sites, auction.com, an example Xome where Mark used to work at are these sites like actual foreclosure sites and how do they different? What are considerations if I were to buy on one of these auction site, could I use financing? Is there contingencies? What are some of the unique risks? So Mark, this is right in your wheelhouse. So do you want to spiel for a little bit on some of these different auction platforms? Mark: Absolutely. This is an area that I stumbled into my first job, right out of college back in 2001. So, you know, there there's a lot of different types of auctions in the sense of there's tax lien, auctions. There's an actual foreclosure auction, which is what most people will understand what the courthouse steps. And then there's also REO options that even retail auctions. So kind of walking through, you know, the foreclosure and the REO, meaning real estate owned. That means the property has already been foreclosed on when it's an REO, it's typically bank owned, but what's happened in the last, last real decade is that, you know, after the recession that banks were realizing that there was less inventory available. And there earlier on in the process of buyer can kind of get the edge to buy that property the quicker they can get it off their books. So again, if a property has been foreclosed upon it, typically in certain States will go to the courthouse steps and you can buy it as a foreclosure. The actual auction is like the final step of the foreclosure process, but in this instance that it doesn't matter there. Then it would go back to the bank and then they can sell it with full ownership. So let's just go into, you know, the foreclosure aspect. If you want to go to the courthouse steps and buy, I mean, it's a great time to be able to buy, but typically you're buying sight unseen. So you really don't know what's on the other side of that door and you cannot use financing. So there may be some really creative ways to get financing, but you're going to need to pay for that property, either at the courthouse step with a cashier's check or you put a certain amount down and then pay the rest soon after. So that part you're going to have to be really buttoned up for. And these are nowadays being conducted even by auction.com, Xome or Hubzu, which are actually at the courthouse steps and working as a third party to really replace the attorneys who are doing these foreclosure auctions before. So you may see like the full on auction going on, where there's a big tent, big TVs, you know, there's a level of organization that's happened in the last, I would say five, six years to really make those more friend link to anybody coming in from the outside so that they actually have customer service representatives there to answer questions. So if you're really curious about those, I always suggest go, it is fun. It is really exciting. And there may be multiple auctions, like I'm in Dallas. So in Texas, they have what they call super Tuesday and you go to the courthouse steps. There could be four different companies out there doing four different auctions. So it's really something that you need to get comfortable with and ask a bunch of questions that you'll meet people there they're wholesaling, you'll meet people there they're buying for their own. And then you'll have major institutions that are there and they probably won't talk to you about their strategy. That's kind of holding the cards close to the vest, but I would just say coming from an auction background, the risks, that's really something that you need to understand your own risk appetite because there's online auction portals, where you could go in and bid on properties that may have either been foreclosed upon or are just about to get foreclosed upon. And they're trying to sell it before it goes to foreclosure. So if you are going to take the risk, really understand, you know, what kind of websites you can go to and dig in deep, because if it's going to foreclosure, there may be other liens, whether it's federal liens or just other kind of sticky liens that you may have to navigate through. So you really need to be prepared for that. But most of the time at the foreclosure, you know, any other liens are wiped out. So study, study, study, understand your risk, understand buying sight unseen, you know, have numbers in mind, don't get caught up in the auction. Cause that's something a lot of people get caught up in because it's that active bidding. It's a lot of energy. That's what the auctioneers do. I come from that background. I only have done online, but I have watched and studied the live auctions and they are entertainers. They want to squeeze money out of you. So go in, know your numbers, understand your risk, understand your rehab, know your numbers, know your numbers, know your numbers, and then proceed with that strategy that you've been putting together. Michael: Mark, I've got a question. Did I hear you right in saying that the banks might want to get these things at auction before the final step of foreclosure, but did I miss hear you? Mark: Yeah, well the banks have a few different plays sometimes. So if they bring it to foreclosure auction, they get to set a bid and they are the ones that say here's the amount that I would be owed and that I would set as the reserve. And so if they're going to go in and they are there and somebody is going to bid on that property, they need to meet that certain amount. And if that amount is not met and they can foreclose at that point on the property and then bring it to sell any other way that they would want, they could put it into a retail platform like MLS, or they could bring it to another auction site and try the auction again, because typically these are properties in distress situations, but the bank's goal is typically to sell the property as early on in the process. So they don't need to do all of these asset management post foreclosure, which means they have to have staff. You know, they have a lot of costs to get the property cleaned up and presented and ready for market. So they typically want to dispose of that as early in the process. And some of them don't even let it go to foreclosure auction. They'll sell alone in a 90 day delinquency just to say, Hey, I'd rather sell this off to someone else rather than have to go through this longer timeline, even though they could potentially make more money. It just makes more sense to them to take the money and, you know, let somebody else take care of the risk. Michael: Got it. Thanks. Tom: All right. This next question, I think is a good one for Michael here. Gilbert, from LinkedIn asked, what parts of the team should in can be local and what doesn't really matter in your, in your own state, or just thinking about locations of that real estate team that you have, where they should sit. Michael: Yeah, that's a great question, Gilbert. So I'll just share kind of how my team looks on a personal level. And so I've got property managers and agents and insurance agents local to the property out where the property is physically located and my CPA and my attorney are in California. And so that's kind of how I've set up shop. Now. I was chatting with an attorney, uh, excuse me, with a CPA. We had Joel Jensen on from Tax Sentry on the podcast a few episodes ago, and he's out in Utah and prepares returns in all 50 States for investors. And so I'm realizing now that you know, more and more of your team can likely be remote. I think having an attorney local to where you live in your state, because you're going to be subject to local laws. If you're setting up LLCs in your state, I think it's important to have an attorney locally, but it could also be beneficial to have a local attorney to where the property is since if you are going to get pulled into a lawsuit resulting from that property, the local laws to where the property are, are the ones that are going to be applicable. So understanding how to cover your bases in that state is I think important as well. Tom: I think an interesting point you make is having the insurance agent be local to the property. I'd love your thoughts on that. It's just, you know, being able to squeeze out the best deal on insurance or Michael: Yeah just having access to local markets, which isn't the case across the board. So for example, I work with a company in California that doesn't write that, that doesn't write insurance in the Midwest. And so the, a lot of the Midwest insurance agents just have access to different carriers and these carriers are gonna know the markets inside and out. There's a reason why the California insurance companies aren't participating in the Midwest because they don't know the market. And so very similar to having a local lender to the property. They can often be more creative because they know the market better allows them to be more competitive. So again, that's another part, a team member that I left off is lenders. So I have lenders local to the property in which the property is located. I also have lenders that work on the national level and I give them both a shot at it and whoever can come up with the best terms and financing usually gets the cake. So I think it's important. Your property manager obviously should be local. Your real estate agent, I think should also be local, pretty much everybody else. It could go either way. I think it's very beneficial to have local people to the, so at least you can ask those questions as a comparison to the folks that you have locally to where you live. Tom: That makes sense. You know, one of the markets that Roofstock operates in, in Florida and for properties that go through our certification process, we come up with an insurance quote that is an insurance quote. That will be, that is bindable, right? That a company is willing to agree to. But oftentimes we found that Florida, the national provider that we use is rates are a little bit higher than some of the local ones. So I guess in markets work and be a little bit more tricky and there's more potential liability on the insurance side really worth going in and getting the local quotes. And even if it's not that tricky, I like that. That's a great point. This goes in very nicely to the next question that Corey from Austin is asking. So, Hey, Roofstock a long time listener. First time caller. I'm about to acquire my third SFR with you guys. Awesome. Congrats Corey. And I'm wondering when is hazard insurance enough versus getting an umbrella policy, a related question that we got from somebody else as well, a good umbrella policy help replace the LLC. And I think kind of the hardest question is, you know, at what point do you start kind of bundling properties into umbrella versus like individual? So Michael this is right in your wheelhouse. What are your thoughts on this? Michael: Yeah, I would say Corey again. Great question. We just recorded a podcast with actually my California attorney and we asked this exact question. So I would say, definitely give that episode of listen. That episode should be released in about two weeks or so, but so again, I'll just share kind of my personal anecdote. When I first started investing in single family homes, there was a couple thousand dollars in cashflow a year coming off each property and to have an LLC in California, it costs $800 a year just simply to have it. So that expense wasn't justified given the amount of cashflow these properties were generating. So I bought three properties prior to opening up an LLC and then put everything, wrapped, everything up, did a quick claim deed and transferred everything to the LLC. Now there's two very distinct camps. There's the pro LLC camp and the no LLC camp. And the pro LLC camp argues that, Hey, if you can bundle everything, put it into a silo and segregate your assets from your personal stuff. That's really great. The no LOC camp argues that you can get that same type of coverage, that same type of asset protection with a high liability insurance policy and an umbrella policy. Who's right, will only be determined once there's a lawsuit. And so it's all comes down to your comfort level, your comfortability, you can get very high liability insurance limits on the underlying policy itself on each specific property policy itself. And couple that with an umbrella policy and umbrella policies are very inexpensive for the amount of coverage that you're getting. And so you've just got to decide for yourself, Hey, how much do I have personally? And how much am I going to be putting at risk with this investment property that will often lead you down the right decision path to what makes the most sense for you? But I think a lot of people really hung up on is, Oh, I need an LLC though, they're pro LLC camp. And they think I need an LLC before I ever start investing. I would say that soften backwards. And I would say focus on getting the property first, making sure that the property is a good fit, then look to see how that LLC plays into the picture. And what's important to note here on this long soapbox rant is that a lot of lenders won't lend to LLCs if they're purchasing single family homes. So have a conversation with your lender, have a conversation with an attorney about what's involved with setting up and maintaining an LLC in your state. And just look to understand what the implications are of having one and have not having one. And then look to make your decision because it's really not a one size fits all approach Michael out. Tom: Well, you know that the benefit of the LLC is you can name it something. Cool. Did you name yourself a cool LLC Michael? Michael: I named… no. I just, well, it's tough because a lot of the cool names are already taken. And so you've got to make sure that it's not a, you know, that name is available. All the cool ones like surfer dude23 was already taken. I was pretty bummed. Tom: Sounds like your AOL chat bot. Michael: That's how I got my inspiration from. Tom: Awesome. Our next question is from front of the show, Bobby from Seattle asks, I've heard of investors making money, buying tax lien. What does this really mean? And is this a viable strategy for investing in real estate? Mark Mr. Tax lien? What are your thoughts there? Mark: Yeah. Right up my alley. Gosh, you've teed up these questions very nicely. I'm going to sound like the smartest guy. Well, here's really what it comes down to a tax lien is, you know, a municipal tax lien means that you owe money to the government. And that's really what when tax liens are purchased, it's typically because somebody didn't pay their County taxes. Right. And what's interesting about tax liens is a tax lien is a municipal tax lien sits in front of any other liens, like a mortgage. Okay. Now, you know, there's a caveat to that. Like federal tax lien, that's a whole nother story, but most properties don't have a federal tax lien if they have delinquent County taxes. So really what happens is every single state has different state statutes of what they're supposed to do with delinquent taxes, right? Because the County needs money to pay for schools, to pay for police officers, to pay for so many more things. So they need that money and they sell off those tax liens just like at the County courthouse. And the person that buys them basically is paying the delinquent taxes on behalf of that homeowner. And in turn, they're going to earn a percentage of interest off of those tax liens. And so when you buy a tax lien, you don't just buy the property, but you're sitting in that first position, even beyond a mortgage. So in the event, let's say the, what they call redemption period. It's typically one, two or three years when that redemption period goes by. And if you're still the tax lien holder, you have the right to foreclose on that property and own the property. So when you used to hear about all these old infomercials about buying properties for pennies on the dollar, I guess they would say that's what the tax lien buying was all about. So what people don't realize is that probably 99.5% of the time, somebody has got to pay off those tax liens. And you can earn anywhere typically between eight to 24% on that investment. And so look at it as almost like buying a note where you're very passively investing in real estate, but the kicker is you may have the ability to foreclose on that property, take ownership and own that property for potentially pennies on the dollar. But again, those stories are the rare ones it's like watching Storage Wars and finding that, you know, old school Bronco sitting in, you know, if the storage unit, you're the guy that bought that yeah. That is made for TV, but it does have, so the tax lien industry, um, it can be safe in some ways, if you're doing your due diligence and really understanding, Hey, if this property takes two years to what they called redeem, or when that redemption period expires, is it going to be in good enough condition where they're still valuing the property? And if you feel comfortable, you can invest knowing they're going to probably get that interest. If not, you could potentially foreclose on that property and own it for very little. Michael: So we should have a new segment on the show called confessional corner. Tom: Yeah. Michael: So I did this, I purchased tax liens, read a book and thought, Oh, this is easy. So I've purchased some tax liens out in Arizona. And the auction is while it was an online auction. And so I did some due diligence and understood, okay, what counties and, and Arizona, what States I should be looking at. So I decided on Arizona. And so I ended up purchasing a bunch. I ended up winning a bunch of these tax lanes and probably 80% of them paid us. And I was like, this is the easiest money I've ever made. This is so awesome. But so what I'm wondering Mark is, so the 20% that haven't paid off, this was probably three, three and a half years ago that I did this. The ones that haven't paid off, I think the redemption period in this County, Arizona is two years. What should I go do now? Because my understanding is that if I decide to for clothes in order to, for clothes, you need to pay off all the existing liens on the property. And so if someone had purchased the tax liens from four, five and six years prior to me, there are still these existing liens on the property that I would need to pay off in order to foreclose on the property. Is that accurate? Or do you know, what do I do now? Mark: Yeah. So two things I would do. Number one, I would send somebody out there to look at the property. Number two, I would, you know, really understand what the timeline looks like and understand if it's a judicial or administrative state where, you know, when the foreclosure happens, you know, like let's say you can actually file to get the tax deed. You need to know, you know, what all those steps are. And sometimes it's an admitted straight of approach. It's just paperwork. But if you have to go to the judicial approach, it means that you would have to actually have to go before a judge in order to earn those rights and earn the tax deed, where did that person would lose the property? So for you, you just need to understand what positions are out there, where do you fit in? And so a title search would show what other liens are out there. Or you could go to potentially, yeah, I would say run a simple type of report, but also understand the condition of the property because it's something that you're like, man, I do not want that property. I want to I'll even pay my own taxes off. You can get yourself out of that position. If you happen to be the front runner, I would say, or if you happen to be in a position kind of buried in the middle, you may end up getting paid off at somebody ends up foreclosing and taking ownership of that property plus the interest, of course. So I would just understand your position and then if you need to spend some money to go out there and take a look at the property, because there's a chance you may get it. I would know what you actually are holding the golden ticket to. Michael: Sure, sure. And let's just say as a thought experiment that I'm in first position that they paid their taxes prior to when I purchased them. And, you know, I decided that I don't want to foreclose on the property. It's a mess. It's something I don't want to get involved in. Is there any risk to me having paid those taxes and kind of being that first position lien holder that I need to then do something or pay additional fees as a result of being that first lien holder? Mark: Yeah. Every state's going to be so different. I mean, these are state statues written back in like, you know, this 17, 18, 19 hundreds, like early, like way back when, so.. Michael: Four score and seven years ago.. Mark: It doesn't hurt to pick up and review on your own and really get to know, Hey, if I am the first lien holder, you know, and there's no other mortgages and this thing is clear to go, you know, what do I need to do? Do I want this? So there's a lot of questions that come with it. But I mean, if 80% of paid off, you'll probably find as it gets closer to actually redeeming during that period where you could potentially take the property, most of the delinquencies get paid off. Right, right. At the very end. So it may turn into that 99% kind of statistic that I gave you before. So there's a lot of who knows at this point, but as you get closer, I would definitely want to know more information about, you know, what the condition is, where you fit in, in the front runner position. And it could be something that you could be that a half a percentile that ends up really good. So you never know. I mean, the story I used to tell people was we ended up doing a tax lien in Hilton Head, South Carolina. And it was a condo sitting on the water. I think we had 35 into it with this private equity firm and the kids that they have just lost a father who owned the property. None of them wanted to pay the property taxes there. They were just had a fight. Well, it went all the way through the foreclosure process. We ended up with a tax deed to that property and had 50, I think it was 58,000 into a $700,000 property. It happens, but don't expect it to happen. Michael: Right, right, right. I think there's a, I just had a couple aha moments. And the vast majority of them is that I had no idea what I was doing and for those listeners, but go get educated. Good. Don't do what I did. Tom: What is it like, ready shoot aim? Michael: That's right. That's right. Yeah. That was a good learning experience. Tom: Gosh, love this tangent right here. All right. Well, we're going to jump into the question. Michael: Great question. Bobby. Tom: Bobby K the man. Last question we have from Jessica out of Boston is how does Roofstock choose their markets and a related question, why is restock not available in all States? Mark, do you wanna take a quick pass at this guy? Mark: Yeah, absolutely. This is a kind of what I work on every day, just for those listeners out there. Uh, you, but Roofstock when we started, they really went to markets with a specific intention and that was around cashflow. Right? That's what most of our investors are always chasing is really quality cashflow. But what we're realizing is that, you know, appreciation may be a different play that other investors are more interested in and, or maybe even a blend of the two. So as Roofstock went to markets from like the st Louis is to the Cleveland's to Memphis and Birmingham, kind of the typical suspects, right? Those are just very highly demanded markets because investors require a certain amount of cash flow. You can get 10% plus cap rates in some of those markets. But what we're trying to do is really balance out different investment strategies for all the different, uh, investors out there. So when it comes to, how do we choose our markets? We want to go to markets where we feel the real estate economy is definitely going in the right direction. That not only from a macro level, but also from a micro level, that there's really healthy local markets where the risk and return really feels good from, you know, the areas compared to what you can make in that cashflow. But we're also looking at kind of expanding that logic where we're saying, Hey, let's just make sure we're going to markets where there's enough supply. Right. And there's some affordability because certain markets like here in Dallas, I mean, it's gotten really tight. And so there's just not much supply that we can source because there's so many other exit strategies that I would say are more geared towards owner occupants, right? So fix and flippers are sourcing properties and going towards those exit strategies rather than investors, because they think they can get more money. So being a marketplace, we have to really grant it, we have to react to the market and let it ebb and flow where we're trying to be the guys in the middle where supply and demand meet. Right? So that just goes to the whole, whole logic of it. You know, we're not available in every state, you know, Washington state, Oregon, California. Those are very much appreciation markets and you're just not going to have the same level of demand from investors. So we're always trying to cater to our network, but please reach out, be vocal, tell us where you want to go. And it really is a conversation point between what Tom and I talk about all the time. And he gives me a lot of feedback where the demand is. So if there's enough demand, the markets make sense. Like we're about to open up and De Moines, Iowa in Richmond, Virginia. And we feel really good about these markets. They're kind of economics. Those are areas we want to go to, but we want to hear your feedback so we can open up in more States and cities like that. Tom: Love it, love it. And opening up new markets all the time. Excellent guys. Well, thanks for the questions that everybody's been sending in and please continue to fire them in and don't be shy on how either advanced or how novice the question is. We're going to bring in the right folks. If we can't answer the questions ourselves, I think that's a fun thing about this network that we have. And Mark, thank you very much for joining us today. Mark: Thanks for having me on always a pleasure. Michael: No, the pleasure is ours. Tom: The pleasure is ours. Storage Wars. That was such a great show. My favorite part is when they, that one guy Darren. Yeah. And he's like, Oh, that's a $3 bill or, Oh, that's a $50 bill or a nonsensical bill. $50 is a real bill, like a $45 bill. Anyways. Okay. Enough of that. All right. Mark: I'll leave you with a good story if you wouldn't mind. So talking about storage Wars. So I had to go to auction school to become an auctioneer, right? And they actually have an auction school where you show up and for eight, you have to do 80 hours in Texas. And for two hours every day, we had to do tongue twisters and we had to do, you know, counting up, counting down five, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30 to 35, 40. What do you do around the rough and rugged rock, the ragged rascal ran, right. And do it all day long. And I'm just scratching my head like, teacher, I'm going to be an online option that really make a difference. So funny enough, but they always did a charity auction at the very end. And guess who walks into my auction school in Texas? It was Walt Cade of Texas storage Wars. I'm like, get out. This is, this is like living in a weird world, but the auctioneer world is really interesting, different real estate to watches, to tobacco and cattle. And there's all kinds of things you learn. But again, I kind of raised my hand, like I'm just here for the real estate online course. We don't have that. Get back to your tongue twisters Mark. So if you really want to talk about some funny stories, it's a great world. Auctioneer's are fun, but you know, there's kind of a new regime coming through more online auctions, which is a fun way for people to kind of get comfortable with, you know, buying from anywhere in the world. Very much like what Roofstock is doing with our marketplace. So yeah. Full of fun stories, but had to share that one. Tom: Awesome. Michael: So cool. Michael: Alrighty, everybody. That was our episode for today. Thank you so much for listening in a big, big, big, thank you to Mark Woodling. Always a real pleasure to have him on as always. If you liked the episode, feel free to give us a rating or review, or even if you didn't like the episode. No, don't give us a rating review if you didn't like the episode, wherever you listen to your podcasts, we look forward to seeing you on the next one. Tom: Happy investing. Michael: Happy investing.

tv love california texas washington west arizona seattle market dc new jersey oregon utah iowa llc states cleveland south carolina wars midwest birmingham richmond scaling cpa tax mls sites tvs aol selections bronco ask us anything auctions llcs foreclosure fannie mae wholesalers hilton head reo loc auctioneer sfr walnut creek storage wars countrywide markit roofstock tom schneider michael yeah mark yeah michael so michael mark michael albaum tom yeah mark hey xome michael sure mark thanks michael hey hubzu mark absolutely remote real estate investor

L4M: CY COLEMAN Broadway

Love4musicals

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 19, 2020 121:20

Cy Coleman fue un compositor muy versátil como vimos en la playlist anterior en la que dimos un repaso a algunas de sus canciones más conocidas y sus trabajos para el cine, pero nos quedaba la faceta suya como compositor para musicales. Comenzó con Carolyn Leigh en Wildcat (1960), donde debutaba una joven Lucille Ball. A este le seguirían Little me (1962), con “SWEET CHARITY”, al que dedicamos el "Cuéntame un musical" pasado. Otros musicales suyos fueron "Eleanor Roosvelt”, que no llegó a estrenarse y “Seesaw” (1973). Coleman es el compositor además de “I LOVE MY WIFE” (1977), “ON THE TWENTY CENTURY” (1978), “BARNUM” (1980), “WELCOME TO THE CLUB”(1988), “CITY OF ANGELS“ (1988), “THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES” (1991) y “THE LIFE“ (1997). Espero que te gusten los temas que hemos seleccionado 00h 00'00" Inicio 00h 02'39" Cabecera 1960 WILDCAT 00h 03'15" Hey, look me over - Jamie Cullum 1962 LITTLE ME 00h 05'18" I've got your number - Swen Swenson 00h 09'12" On the other side of the tracks - Sarah Vaughan 00h 12'42" Real live girl - Jack Jones 1966 SWEET CHARITY 00h 14'52" Big spender - Chita Rivera, Paul Kelly & the girls 00h 18'44" If my friends could see me now - Shirley Mac Laine 00h 21'59" There's gotta be something better than this -Shirley MacLaine, Chita Rivera & Paula Kelly 00h 26'42" Where am I going? - Barbra Streisand 1973 SEESAW 00h 29'28" Poor everybody else - Michele Lee 1977 I LOVE MY WIFE 00h 32'13" Hey there, good times - Michael Mark, Joseph Saulter, John Miller & Ken Bichel 00h 34'53" I love my wife - Lenny Baker & James Naughton 1978 ON THE TWENTY CENTURY 00h 38'46" I've got it all - Kristin Chenoweth 00h 43'43" Never - Kristin Chenoweth 00h 46'34" Our private world - Jackie and Roy 00h 51'29" Repent - Mary Louise Wilson 00h 56'10" Veronique - Kristin Chenoweth 1980 BARNUM 00h 59'33" Colors of my life - Michael Crawford & Deborah Grant 01h 02'57" Come follow the band - Michael Crawford 1989 CITY OF ANGELS 01h 06'44" Funny - Gregg Edelman 01h 08'50" Lost and found - Rachel York 01h 11'41" What you don't know about women? Kay McClelland & Randy Graff 01h 13'54" With every breat I take - Elaine Paige 01h 17'25" You can always count on me - Randy Graff 01h 21'52" You're nothing without me - Gregg Edelman & James Naughton 1991 THE WILL ROGERS FOLLIES 01h 25'12" Willamania - ZIgfield's Favorite 01h 31'22" Never met a man I didn't like - Keith Carradine 01h 33'33" Give a man enough rope - Keith Carradine & Four Men 01h 37'19" Look around - Keith Carradine 1997 THE LIFE 01h 39'26" Easy money - Bellamy Young, Sam Harris & Kevin Ramsey 01h 41'18" People magazine - Liza Minneli & Billy Stritch 01h 45'13" The oldest profession - Lillias White 01h 51'50" Use what you got - Liza Minnelli 01h 54'50" We had a dream - Liza Minnelli 01h 58'29" Why don't they leave us alone? -Michael Gregory Gong & Company Sólo me resta recordarte que si quieres suscribirte GRATUITAMENTE al canal de Love4musicals puedes hacerlo en los enlaces de ivoox o itunes para recibir notificación cada vez que publiquemos un nuevo programa.

Cy COLEMAN: Broadway

Love4musicals

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 19, 2020 121:20

Results with Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths International

international strictly business michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 20, 2020 12:17

Strictly Business — Results - Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths International

Results with Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths International

international michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Feb 20, 2020 12:17

Results - Michael Mark - CEO of Truworths International

Reality Radio CafeCast for Monday, January 20, 2020

Radio on the Rocks Cafecast

Play Episode Listen Later Jan 20, 2020 85:54

Today's guest: Michael Mark, VE4MM of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada BLOGCAST: https://digicommcafe.mn.co/posts/4912521?utm_source=manual Drop-in on my LIVE Podcast each morning at 7:00am Central in the DigiCommCafe Chat Group on Telegram in the Voice Chat! Join our DigiCommCafe Community on the Mighty Networks platform, our Facebook alternative. If you're interested in becoming a licensed amateur radio operator, I recommend you use HamtestOnline for your studies and preparations. I used it to get my Extra Class Upgrade. Do you live in a rural location like me? I'll bet you struggle to get reliable internet, don't you? I have finally found an inexpensive service. It's called Visible which is owned by Verizon and uses their network. They only have one plan and it is unlimited everything for $40 a month! If you join the Digicommcafe Party Party Group that drops to $25/month! Request a line at https://visible.com and use my referral code: 3n37nt. Once you have your SIM card installed and registered, go to https://visible.com/p/DigiCommCafe and join our party to drop to $25 a month for unlimited everything! We are very happy with the service. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/digicommcafe/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/digicommcafe/support

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Results with Michael Mark - CEO Truworths International

international results strictly business michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 15, 2019 10:55

Strictly Business — Results with Michael Mark - CEO Truworths International

Results with Michael Mark - CEO Truworths International

international results michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Aug 15, 2019 10:55

Results with Michael Mark - CEO Truworths International

Michael,Mark and Sam podcast

Sensational

Play Episode Listen Later May 17, 2019 11:59

thanks

michael mark sam podcast

The Wasp Woman | Monster Attack Ep. 128

Monster Attack

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 9, 2018 44:11

It's an alliterative favorite from Jim's past as he reminisces on Roger Corman's 1959 cult classic, "The Wasp Woman," starring Susan Cabot, Barboura Morris, Anthony Eisley and Michael Mark. The owner of a large cosmetics firm tries to find the fountain of youth with an experimental enzyme resulting in horrific results. It's all ahead on this episode of "Monster Attack!"

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Health Episode #12: Michael Mark on Overcoming His Season Ending Injury

Link Endurance Podcast

Play Episode Listen Later Jul 7, 2018 49:40

Back in episode #147 Alix and I discussed how you can train through an injury by focusing on what you CAN do vs. what you can't do. In this episode our guest, and one of the top Elite Masters OCR athletes on the planet Michael Mark talks about how he is overcoming a devastating, season ending achilles tendon rupture last month during a warm-up run before the TMX World Championship. Michael was arguably in the best shape of his life when his season ended in a split second. We talk about the injury, what could have lead to the rupture, and how Michael uses his positive mindset to make a 180 degree shift in focus and continue moving forward during bad days, sad days, angry days and happy days. This show will hopefully give you a great perspective on life and how you can always stay focused on becoming the best version of yourself possible.

health overcoming ending injury tough mudder tmx michael mark

BEARA BREWING COMPANY

WHAT'S YOUR POISON?

Play Episode Listen Later Jun 30, 2018 46:18

This episode we sit & sip with Michael & Mark at BEARA BREWING COMPANY 2800 Lafayette Rd Portsmouth NH 857-342-3272 www.bearairishbrew.com

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April 12, 2018 Michael Mark Speaking

CLU University Chapel

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 19, 2018 24:59

speaking michael mark

Howard Stevenson, Founder, Angel & Scholar of Entrepreneurship - "Wealth & Families" Ep. 29

beast mode coley broken skull american grit broken skull challenge michael mark

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 6, 2017 61:47

iTunes Podcast Page for Review & Subscribing If you want to get rich and to pass money to your kids, listen closely to Howard Stevenson. Here’s condensed wisdom from the heart of the investing world delivered with dry humor and charm. Professor Stevenson was a co-founder of storied Baupost Group and helped hire its legendary manager Seth Klarman. He began the study of entrepreneurship at Harvard Business School and eventually became HBS’ biggest fundraiser. His book “Wealth & Families” gives invaluable advice on how to make money and keep enough of it to hand down to the generations. My personal favorite is illustrated by this quote from the interview: “Whereas, some of my colleagues were going off consulting ... They were making a lot of money every day, and they go their XKE (Jaguar XKE, a coveted sports car of the era) quite quickly. I went off to places like Lima, Ohio, and I was paid $300 a day, but I got 1% of the company.” Howard Stevenson was forgoing high current income, and consumption, for the ability to own promising assets that would build his wealth in the long term. This approach contributed to Professor Stevenson becoming rich enough to need a family office to manage his money. Podcast Page on iTunes Where You Can Review & Subscribe This dynamic conversation includes: Howard Stevenson Bio How Howard Stevenson Started His Career Fear of the “Velvet Rut” Causes Howard Stevenson to Leave a Tenured Position at Harvard Business School Howard Stevenson: “A lot of people are fairly miserable in their job, but they fear change more than they look for the optionality that comes in change.” After a Sojourn in Entrepreneurship & Real Estate, Howard Stevenson Was Lured back to HBS Sal Daher: “There are not a lot of people that would turn down tenured positions at The Harvard Business School…” Howard Stevenson replies: “That's sad. I'm a trustee at Olin College, and they have no tenure. It's amazing what that does, because people are there voluntarily.” Howard Stevenson on Building Wealth: “I've always been experimental, because I don't believe I understand and can predict the future. By the way, when you look that the facts, very few people can.” Howard Stevenson’s 400x Investment in a Company with a “Stupid Business Plan” Howard Stevenson’s Four Criteria for Investing Howard Stevenson’s Portfolio Returns; Warren Buffett-Like Howard Stevenson on whether Entrepreneurship Can Be Taught Howard Stevenson’s Definition of Entrepreneurship The Best Due Diligence Is Time How Baupost Got Started and How Investing Wizard Seth Klarman Was Hired How Howard Stevenson Shops for Cars Howard Stevenson’s Advice for How Young People Can Build Wealth Mitt Romney & a Young Colleague on Spending Why You Should Review this Podcast on iTunes – It Really Helps Us iTunes Podcast Page Where You May Review & Subscribe "Most of the wealthy people I know, are better at making money than managing it." Howard Stevenson’s Journey in Investing Began by Reading Graham, Dodd & Cottle in 1961 "I was smart that I recognized the quality of the people. But, whether it was coming out at 2X or 400X, wasn't in my control." Talking to Your Kids About Money Transcript: Sal Daher: Welcome to Angel Invest Boston. Conversations with Boston's most interesting angel investors and founders. I'm Sal Daher, and my goal for this Podcast, is to learn more about building successful new companies. The best way I can think of doing this is by talking to people who have done it. People such as entrepreneur, angel investor, and scholar of entrepreneurship, Howard Stevenson. Professor Stevenson, Howard, I'm elated for the opportunity to interview you on this the 29th episode of our podcast. Thanks for hosting us at your offices. In this recording session outside our usual studio. This is what's normally called a remote. H. Stevenson: Well it's not so remote, it's right in Harvard Square. Sal Daher: That's right. Not too far away. Howard Stevenson Bio Howard Stevenson founded the storied Baupost Group, and is the father of entrepreneurial management, at the Harvard Business School. Howard has served on many boards, and his advice is prized by so many wealthy people. He has written extensively on business and social ventures. He has been generous with his time and treasure, towards philanthropic causes in which he believes. It is said that he has raised more money for Harvard Business School than anyone else. There is now a chair professorship named after him at HBS, in recognition of his outsized achievements. Starting out as a math major, Howard has had a methodical approach to wealth during his entire career. While he measured assiduously the growth of his net worth, he also paid close attention to choosing work that was satisfying to him, and valuable to others. Informed by fear of the “Velvet Rut” that can trap tenured academics. Howard found his own career trail in several industries. By taking astute long-term bets, he has become wealthy enough to need his own family office, though he does not like the term. In preparing for this interview, I read his latest book, Wealth and Families: Lessons from My Life Journey. Written with his longtime collaborator Shirley Spence. The book is a remarkable document, in that it grew out of another book. A book that he had written for his family, titled: Howard's Journey: Lessons from the Game of Life. This other book was written to impart his hard-earned lessons to his family. The family book was shared with a few close friends, who urged creation of a public version, which became Wealth and Families. Which, is the book we'll refer to in this conversation. In concluding my introduction, I'd like to read a beautiful blurb of the book by Howard's colleague, Kenneth A. Fruit of Harvard Business School. "It is hard to fathom, even once you've read it. The compactness of the wisdom and insight Howard Stevenson provides in this short book. His perspective is practical, yet enormously synthetic. Don't be confused by the direct "Oh shucks" tone. The simple folksy-sounding analysis of the complex problem of intergenerational wealth, belies Howard's incorporation, and absorption of much more of the magic of mathematically rigorous laws of compounding and diversification. Sprinkling in a foundational knowledge of the tax code and the law. It's that he has in his own mental frame incorporated a sense of people's humanity, their strengths and weaknesses, their goals and actual accomplishments. Based on successfully watching and doing for all these years. The wisest teachers have all along been life's best and most observant students. Howard and this integrative little book that you and your progeny should share, are just that." That's really beautifully written. H. Stevenson: Yes, and I didn't even pay him. Sal Daher: I know. I know those things are tremendous. How Howard Stevenson Started His Career As a service to our younger listeners Howard, I'd like to ask a question about how my massively successful guests got started in their careers. Tell us about the choice that confronted you when you completed your undergraduate in mathematics at Stanford, and what you chose. H. Stevenson: Well it was fairly easy. I discovered when I was at Stanford, there were people who were smarter than I am, love math more, and worked harder. I decided I didn't want to compete with them. I had looked at both law school, and business school, and in my great wisdom I discovered law school was three years long. Business school was two, and I chose business school. Sal Daher: A math major, you could count. H. Stevenson: I could count. Even on one hand. And, then I discovered that in fact Harvard gave me a bigger scholarship than Stanford for my continuation. End of story on the career that got me into Harvard Business School. Staying on to teach was another decision, which I think is, I've always loved learning, and what better way to learn than to teach. So, I did that for a couple of years, and then played investment banker with a friend on doing deals for small companies. Then I came back to the business school to do ... Well I came back to tell them I wasn't coming back, and they said, "What are you going to do?" And, I said, "Well I'm going to be a VP of Finance of a real estate company." That meant that they thought that I knew something about real estate. I'd never read a book on the subject. I never had done anything in the field, and they said, "Do you want to teach the course?" And thought, "What better way to learn?" So, I came back to the business school, started a real estate course, or took over one that was sort of moribund. And, did that for five years. I came up for tenure, and I got tenure, and the Dean told me to do something important. So, I left again. Fear of the “Velvet Rut” Causes Howard Stevenson to Leave a Tenured Position at Harvard Business School But, part of the motivation of leaving was that I saw a lot of people in this “Velvet-lined Rut’. That it's very easy when you're successful, to keep doing what you're already doing. But, in fact the only way you can get from doing the wrong thing to the right thing, is probably doing the right thing poorly. And, so you have to learn, and I watch people who run the top of little hill, who didn't want to go down in the valley to try something new. Sal Daher: This is very interesting. Very, very interesting. I wanted to elucidate a little bit, what was meant by the Velvet Rut. You think that academics tend to perhaps specialize a great deal? Become the most knowledgeable in a field, but are afraid to venture out, where they're not as knowledgeable? H. Stevenson: Or where there're people who won't think they're as knowledgeable. But, I don't think that's restricted to academics. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Howard Stevenson: “A lot of people are fairly miserable in their job, but they fear change more than they look for the optionality that comes in change.” H. Stevenson: A lot of people are fairly miserable in their job, but they fear change more than they look for the optionality that comes in change. Sal Daher: Ah, yes. The optionality that comes in change. H. Stevenson: And, we can never predict the results of change. Sal Daher: No. No. H. Stevenson: So, for me I said, "Look, I can always get a job." I think the dean, at that point was not interested in what I was doing, which was entrepreneurship and real estate. And I said, "Why do I want to work at some place where they don't value what I'm doing?" Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) After a Sojourn in Entrepreneurship & Real Estate, Howard Stevenson Was Lured back to HBS H. Stevenson: That led me to work with a private company. Became VP of Finance of a private company. Helped them raise money. Got some control systems in place. A whole bunch of things. So, I had a lot of learning, but after five years the learning went away and I ... The dean had heard that I was dissatisfied, and came and said, "You want to do something in entrepreneurship?" And this was a new dean, and he was a person I knew and trusted, and so I said, "Yes". Sal Daher: It's a new direction and a new discipline that challenged you at the time. So, you felt that that did not have the risks of constraining you within this rut. H. Stevenson: Absolutely not, and beyond that I knew that I could leave again. Sal Daher: There are not a lot of people that would turn down tenured positions at The Harvard Business School. No, that is impressive. Sal Daher: “There are not a lot of people that would turn down tenured positions at The Harvard Business School…” Howard Stevenson replies: “That's sad. I'm a trustee at Olin College, and they have no tenure. It's amazing what that does, because people are there voluntarily.” H. Stevenson: That's sad. I'm a trustee at Olin College, and they have no tenure. It's amazing what that does, because people are there voluntarily. Sal Daher: Yes, yes. That is a remarkable organization. We're going to talk a little bit now about building wealth. What type of early stage investments have you made, and how have they turned out over time? Howard Stevenson on Building Wealth: “I've always been experimental, because I don't believe I understand and can predict the future. By the way, when you look that the facts, very few people can.” H. Stevenson: I've always been experimental, because I don't believe I understand and can predict the future. By the way, when you look that the facts, very few people can. Sal Daher: That's right. H. Stevenson: We've always tried to invest in places where, in the early stage, I prefer to invest when people have some revenue. Because, it points to the fact that there is somebody that's willing to have a cash-ectomy performed on their wallet. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: We like to be broadly diversified. I'm not trying to guess what's going to be in the next public market. Sal Daher: You prefer companies that are post-revenue? That are ... H. Stevenson: Post revenue. Sal Daher: Earning, okay. H. Stevenson: And ... Sal Daher: In a growth stage? H. Stevenson: In a growth stage, where they need the money to ... If it's in biotech, I prefer something where the scientific risk is out. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: But the market risk is still there. The best investment I ever made was in a company that had a really stupid business plan. But, the people were fantastic. Sal Daher: Yes. Howard Stevenson’s 400x Investment in a Company with a “Stupid Business Plan” H. Stevenson: They were in an industry that I thought was very interesting. I thought that what they were doing in that industry made no sense. Over a couple of years, they morphed, and that's probably returned 400 to 1. Sal Daher: Oh, the 400 to 1 return that everybody's looking for, to pay for the rest of the portfolio. H. Stevenson: Yes. But ... Sal Daher: Which company was that? H. Stevenson: It's a company called Asurion. Sal Daher: Asurion. H. Stevenson: And, they are very quiet, I'm still invested. Sal Daher: Yes. H. Stevenson: They're doing very well. One of my friends, who's a noted venture capitalist, turned them down because the business plan was too stupid. That's been one of the worst decisions he ever made. Whereas, one of the other venture capitalists that put a little money in, it's the best decision he's made in his life. Sal Daher: I know, those kinds of investments are few and far between, and when you turn one of those down, it's hard to live it down. H. Stevenson: You have to live life forward, you can't live with regrets. Sal Daher: True, true, true, but I think there is some room for learning. Howard Stevenson’s Four Criteria for Investing H. Stevenson: I think the thing that I've learned is. I have four criteria for investing in companies I know and love. Is the person honest? Because, if they're not honest they'll screw you some way. Sal Daher: Oh yeah, that goes without saying. H. Stevenson: Now how do you figure out if they're honest? Well, there're two ways: 1. You know them. Or, 2. One of my favorite questions is, "Tell me about the sharpest deal you ever did?" And, it's amazing what people will tell you. One guy told me how he cheated the IRS. And you say, "Well if they can send you to jail, and I can't, and you're still willing to do it, I think I know something about your value system." Sal Daher: That is remarkable, that is remarkable. H. Stevenson: The second criteria, that I like to use in investing is: Are they nice? By that I mean, are they looking out for somebody other than themselves? Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: I've had experience in start-up or early stage investments, where the entrepreneur takes care of themselves really well, and the early stage investors not so much. Sal Daher: Left hold the proverbial bag. H. Stevenson: Well, or holding nothing. We have one that just went public, and I think compared to my investments, I'll make 10 cents on the dollar, even though the company was successful. And, I went through three or four rounds, and I discovered what the person was. But, trying to figure out are they nice, that means talking to people that know them. Looking at past decisions. I've had investors ... Or, I've had companies where we lost all the money, and they gave me stock in the next venture they did. Which is a good sign that they are nice people. Sal Daher: Yeah, that is a nice sign, yeah. H. Stevenson: The third element is: Are they curious? Because if you believe that the future is impossible to predict, then anybody who thinks they know the future absolutely, is not looking around the corner. I go back to my example of the best one we ever did. They had a bad plan, but they were curious, and they said, "Where can we serve this group of customers, with a very profitable notion?" And, they found it. Howard Stevenson’s Portfolio Returns; Warren Buffett-Like And the last is: Are they smart? Because, this is a very complicated field. Now you ask how we've done. We've been doing it for about 25 years, since I sold down some of my position at Baupost, and left active management. I was the president for the first eight years. We probably return 17% or 18%. Probably 12% without the real big winner. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So, a little bit ahead of what Baupost has done in the same time? H. Stevenson: Yes. I guess I look at it, and I say, when I've done the analysis ... Sal Daher: Probably a lot higher beta. H. Stevenson: Yeah. It's actually interesting, I've divided things into five categories. Stuff happened, I don't use the word stuff when I'm talking about this. Sal Daher: Yes. I understand. H. Stevenson: That was a ... The guy got a pancreatic cancer soon after we invested. The Tanzanian government it over, because it was too profitable, and they wanted their cousin to own it. And, you can go through some, but there weren't a lot of those. There was the wrong on the bet category. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: It was a good bet, but it didn't work. And, I think in a lot of what we're doing, you've got to differentiate between, is it a good bet, and did it work? Sal Daher: Yes. H. Stevenson: Because, on a high variance bet, it's not going to work out all the time. But, one of the things we always try to do is say, "What are we betting on? What are the three or four conditions we're betting on?" And, then sometimes they're not going to work. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: Then there is, we made it safely through. Then there was a few good things happened. If you take the bottom three categories, I think we got about 7% out of that total pool because ... Sal Daher: Wow! Well that's not bad, yeah. H. Stevenson: When you're post revenue, in some ways you don't ... You're not going to lost everything. Sal Daher: No, no. H. Stevenson: But one of the interesting ... Sal Daher: I've had at least one post revenue company that lost everything, because they were so highly leveraged. That's the thing, if they have revenue, there's a temptation to borrow. H. Stevenson: Yeah, but I think that one of the things about it is, that if you're working with the right people, they are ready to say, "It's not working". Then they turn their task to getting something for the company. Instead of, as some people are, they'll just throw the dice, until they run out of money. Somebody who's nice and curious, is probably going to spend some time saying, "It really isn't working, is there some way we can salvage something for us, and the investors?" Sal Daher: Yeah, that really is remarkable wisdom. H. Stevenson: Then some good things happened. Largely that was when somebody else wanted it worse than we did. Then there's the wows, and there are probably five wows. The one I told you about is by far the biggest one, but there were quite a few that returned 30 to 1. Sal Daher: Wow. H. Stevenson: And you say, "What field were you in?" They were all over the lot. Sal Daher: Wow, so no specialization? H. Stevenson: No specialization. Sal Daher: Interesting. I was having a conversation with a young venture capitalist yesterday, who is a part of MIT angels. He says, "I'm very specialized in biotech. Everyone, of these deals I can see all the problems with them, and solve them and so on." And he said, "I don't understand how you can make money, without that level of specialization." The answer for me at least, is that I'm investing much earlier than he is. So, my judgment isn't really based on knowing exactly what the industry is, and so forth. It's much more based on character, and so forth. The sort of thing that you're talking about. That is what makes it possible for you to be investing. If, you're investing early enough. The remarkable thing is that you're investing in post revenue, and you're still making those judgment calls based on character, and making money. Which is tremendous. H. Stevenson: I think that part of it is that nobody knows the future, no matter how many PhDs you have. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: In the biology field, I've had people present things to me. They say, "This is absolutely unique." And, I walk back to my office, and I get a business plan, that if I just crossed out the names, it would be the same. Sal Daher: It would be the same, yes. H. Stevenson: So, my belief that you have a unique upside. Just think, even Uber. How many examples are there of Uber? Sal Daher: That's right. The ones that failed, there were many of them, and Lyft, which is still extant. But the reality is that, ideas are a dime a dozen, and execution is very, very hard. H. Stevenson: One of my favorite stories about this is, in 1993 and the personal computer is coming out. We said, "There's got to be a role for this in home accounting." Sal Daher: Ah. H. Stevenson: We found a guy from Procter and Gamble, because we knew you'd need marketing. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) H. Stevenson: They'd written a software. It was good software. It worked fine on the apple. Unfortunately, not on the PC. And, it started literally within a week of Quicken. Sal Daher: Ah! H. Stevenson: So, you look and you say if I took two business plans, look at the resumes of the people, I couldn't tell the difference. Sal Daher: No. H. Stevenson: One is wallpaper, and the other is a fortune. Sal Daher: Quicken, they managed to establish a process for developing a product. Which was really, tremendously impressive. H. Stevenson: That, but I think they may have gotten into Staples slightly before we did. Sal Daher: That's all part of the product development process. H. Stevenson: Yep. Sal Daher: The product is developed enough, that Staples can distribute it. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to think of who it is that I interviewed recently who has the founder of Quicken as his ... H. Stevenson: Scott Cook? Sal Daher: Scott Cook, yes is his idol. H. Stevenson: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Sal Daher: I think it came out in the podcast. H. Stevenson: Yeah, a P&G guy. He's not a technology guru. Sal Daher: Well, he's another P&G guy, because you guys were backing a P&G guy as well. H. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: Well I'm in the process of writing ... H. Stevenson: HBS guy too. Sal Daher: HBS guy. Well I'm in the process of writing a check right now to P&G, J&J, HBS guy. So, I hope it's going to work out. H. Stevenson: I can guarantee you won't know until it does. Sal Daher: I know. That is absolutely true. That is absolutely true. Howard Stevenson on whether Entrepreneurship Can Be Taught You've done a lot of research, and given all your business experience. This is a tough question. Do you believe there are certain personality types that are more conducive to entrepreneurship, or can it just be taught to anyone? Bill Aulet, thinks it can be taught. H. Stevenson: Can I answer no, to both questions? Sal Daher: Absolutely. H. Stevenson: Well, in the old days before I started to work in entrepreneurship, there were people who said, "Well, they've studied it carefully and you need ... Being a first born helps, because 44% of the entrepreneurs are first born." Failing to notice that 44% of the population is first born. There were other deep studies of locusts of control, and other things. It turns out to be nonsense. I don't think that there's a personality type. Because, if you're going to run a cable television company, you could be the wallflower at the accounting convention. Sal Daher: Right, right. H. Stevenson: If you're going to run a promotion based ... Look at Steve Jobs’ personality. I mean ... Sal Daher: Absolutely. H. Stevenson: I can go through Ken Olsen. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Howard Stevenson’s Definition of Entrepreneurship H. Stevenson: You look at the great entrepreneurs, and if you can find a single personality type, I think you've got a flawed test. So, I would reject that. On the other hand, I don't think that you can teach entrepreneurship to anybody. What I always thought we're doing when we're trying to teach entrepreneurship. Is if you take the students who come to Harvard Business School, they're opportunity driven. And, as you may know, I tried to define entrepreneurship as the opportunity beyond the resources you currently control. Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: Almost any kid, who walks into Harvard Business School, Sloan School. They didn't get there because they were shy, retiring ... Sal Daher: No. Stevenson: Just hoping to make it to the first level of the company, and then they'll stop. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: What we tried to do is, to show them that somebody like them could accomplish it. So, you had the cases on women, you had cases on African Americans, you had cases on people who started late, people who started immediately. Although, I tried to discourage people from starting early. Because there's a lot of research that shows, you got to know something about your customer in your market place. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: You ought to be known. Because you're going to go out to raise resources, and the more that other people know you and trust you, the better off you are. But, I think what you have to do is have the self-knowledge to say ... Probably politically incorrect say, "I know there's a lot of money to be made in China, but it won't be made by people that look like me." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) No, really the problem of information, and the fact that it's broadly disseminated, and people who have local information have an advantage, over someone coming from the outside. That is broadly recognized. I see the point that you're making, that you think that what the academic experience can do, is inspire people with models. Stevenson: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Sal Daher: That have, through cases and so forth. They can get people thinking, "I can do that." Which is a little bit of what I hope to do through this program, with angel investing. Is, to get people saying, "I don't have to be Mark Zuckerberg, to invest as an angel. I can be a guy who has built a business, who's got some experience and so forth. And, I can probably help some young person who's building a business." Stevenson: Well, what I said about ... There were two things that I was trying to do, accomplish. One was planting time bombs in people's mind, that exploded when they stepped on the opportunity. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: The second thing that I think you try and do, is keep them from doing really stupid things. Sal Daher: Ah, okay. Stevenson: I have a sign in my office at home that says, "It's great to learn from other people's mistakes, and you've been a real blessing to me." Sal Daher: Yeah. The ability to learn from other people's experience. It's a lot cheaper than learning from your own experience. Stevenson: That's what you try and do as a teacher is ... But, you also have to say there is no one right way. The business plan, no I've never had a business plan that worked out the way it was written. Sal Daher: My first interview with Michael Mark, who's founded several companies as a technology founder. And, he said he had invested in more than 200 startups, and he could think of one business plan that went according to plan, Progress Software. All the other ones necessitated pivots. Stevenson: The first thing I would say is, the fact that writing a business plan can be helpful, because you have to express the bets that you're making. So, you actually know what you're shooting at. Sal Daher: Absolutely. Stevenson: But, if you think that the business plan has foreseen all possible combinations ... Even just timing is at best, a random event in some ways. Sal Daher: That's right. In your book I think you quote Eisenhower saying, "Planning is everything. Plans are nothing." Stevenson: That was my doctoral dissertation. Had a lot to the defining strengths and weaknesses. Didn't matter what you wrote down at the end. It was, you were asking the question, "How do we compare to the other people trying to accomplish the same thing we are?" Sal Daher: So, going through the process of planning, you develop understanding. Even though things don't work out as you expect, at least you know a little bit about the lay of the land. So that when things change, you can regroup and do an informed approach. Stevenson: I would also say that one of the things that I look for in a business plan, is have they looked honestly at the competition. Sal Daher: Ah. Stevenson: I can't tell you how many business plans and software I've read that says, "We've done this for $300,000, and it would take everyone else 2 million." Sal Daher: I've seen a lot of those, yeah. Stevenson: There's a lot of competition out there, and you need to have some humility on the part of the entrepreneur and the investor to say, "We're going to be out there in a tough market. How are we going to win? Where do we have a competitive advantage?" Sal Daher: In those situations, one trick that I've learned from some of my colleagues in Walnut Ventures is, give them a little time. If they're at the beginning of the race, don't tell them that you're going to invest with them. Give them three months, and then see where they are, in those three months. See how much progress they've made during that time. They've told you everything about where they are now. If, in three months they're still telling you the same things, and they have competition, so that they're not very good at implementation. So, they're not going to get anywhere. The Best Due Diligence Is Time Stevenson: We always say the best due diligence is time. In fact, I was talking to one of the famous venture capitalists, who was a former student, and a good friend. And I said, "Isn't due diligence highly overrated?" And he says, "Yeah, I need to make five calls." He said, "I just need to know, which five people I talk to." I think that's true in most of this area for us as investors is, do you know somebody that knows the field? Do you know somebody that knows the person? Do you know somebody that knows the state of the financial markets for that particular fashion element? There's a lot of stuff ... Sal Daher: Absolutely. Stevenson: That, you don't need to talk to everybody in the world. And, getting a 2000-page report from Bain and Company, or McKinsey, is not going to help you understand where the world is going. Sal Daher: No, no it's not. It's not. How Baupost Got Started and How Investing Wizard Seth Klarman Was Hired Howard, I'm very curious to hear the story of the founding of Baupost. Hiring of Seth Klarman. For those listeners who do not know of Seth Klarman, think Warren Buffett a quarter century younger. Stevenson: I'll start with a recent search that I was working on for a not for profit. The people said, "We need to hire somebody like, X." And I said, "No you're going to be hiring someone like X was 30 years ago." Sal Daher: Yeah. Stevenson: That was true of Seth. Here you had an extremely bright young man, who loved two things. He liked stocks. He liked betting. Baupost was founded because, Bill Poorvu had sold WCVB, or was selling CVB, and I had worked with him quite a bit. And, Jordan Baruch ... Sal Daher: Bill Poorvu, fellow professor at the Harvard Business School. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: Who had been owner of the television station, WCVB channel 5, here in Boston. Stevenson: A part of it, yes. Sal Daher: A part of it, yeah. Stevenson: And, Jordan Baruch was a professor at MIT. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Who, was one of the early ... I think he was employee number four, Bolt, Beranek & Newman. Sal Daher: Okay, okay. Stevenson: And Isaac Auerbach was one of the early employees of UNIVAC. Sal Daher: Okay. Stevenson: And, he was a good friend of Jordan's. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, as Bill was about to receive some money he said, "Help me how to figure out how we get the money managed." So, the first hire was an administrator. Deloitte's going to come in, you better make sure you can account for it. Sal Daher: You can put it in somewhere. Stevenson: Well, make sure you can account for it first. Sal Daher: At least cash the checks. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Then Seth was a student of Bill's, and he said, "This is an unusual guy. What are we going to do with him?" And I said, "Who knows?" We started out looking at, how do we select money managers? Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: This was 1982. After you talk to a number of money managers, you say, "We can do better than that." Sal Daher: The industry was not highly developed at that time. Stevenson: The industry, it was ... White shoe, everybody was into recreational vehicles. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: It was a screwy industry, and always has been. Sal Daher: Right, right. Stevenson: We hired Seth. We looked at ... Sal Daher: But what is it that you saw in Seth, that set him apart? Stevenson: The same things that I talked about earlier. He was honest. He'd worked for honest people. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: I wouldn't hire somebody from, you can name the firm. Sal Daher: Absolutely, yeah. Stevenson: He doesn't even need to work there, I don't want to work for me. He certainly understood the charitable notions that I think the other founders had. I think they were all deeply committed to other people, and that was attractive to him. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: It wasn't, they were trying to make the most money, and so you saw the niceness come through there. Clearly curious, you don't work the pink sheets, if you're not curious. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Because, nobody else was covering them. Sal Daher: No, no. Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: That was one of the things I liked about him is, he was willing to do original research. Rather than call up Goldman and say, "What's hot today?" Sal Daher: Yeah. Stevenson: And their answer is, "Whatever I got a lot to sell off." Sal Daher: Exactly, exactly. Stevenson: And, he's clearly smart. He's a Baker Scholar. So, we saw that and ... Sal Daher: But the idea of patient investing, of buying things that are deeply underpriced, and holding them until they are, not fully valued, I know you always sold early. But, until other people begin to have an interest in them, that is something that's attracted me to him. Because, it's a lot similar to what my partner and I did in emerging markets. We were always early, buying stuff at incredibly cheap, and selling into the market as it began. People made a lot of money buying stuff off of us. And, the same thing with Seth Klarman. So, how did you detect that? That quality in him. Stevenson: I like to think I even taught him some of that. The expression we gave was, "Feed the birdies, when they're hungry." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: And, he transitioned into being the president after about six years. Because, people don't want to give a 26-year-old all of their money. And, we had all of the money, of all of the clients. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, there was concern. This is a different approach. I think one of the things that also Seth has been brilliant at, and I like to think I had something to do with it. Is, not ... Because we had all the money, you didn't get stuck on we're buying big cap stocks. It was ... Sal Daher: Ah, okay. Stevenson: So, a lot of the success was, you moved from sector to sector. So, you bought real estate, when real estate was dead cheap. You bought busted bonds. I can go through the history and ... Sal Daher: And, given the composition of the investors, the original investors. They were a small number of people, who had a long-term outlook. They had a much healthier attitude towards the market, than a lot of people have today. Because if you're a young, rising fund manager, you live or die by your last results. In your ... Stevenson: No. And, frankly as we're building the business, we turned down a lot of those people. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: We didn't think the acquisition of assets was important as the acquisition of good clients. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Also, we were interested in who the family was. Not, do they have a name. Sal Daher: Right, right. Stevenson: But, how they dealt with each other. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Because, you were trying to create something, and I think Baupost still has that feeling that it's everybody's in it together. So, it was, everybody participated in the performance fee, down to the secretary. Everybody ate from the same pizza box. Sal Daher: That is wonderful. That's something Warren Buffett complains says his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: In this case, even the secretary is paying a high tax rate. Stevenson: Yep. Sal Daher: A low tax rate, I should say. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: Because, she is benefiting on the ... Or he, in the ... Stevenson: Right. That was certainly the case then, and they tried to spread through. Sal Daher: That's really laudable. I have great admiration for the firm that you helped put together, and its outcome is really impressive. Stevenson: Well it's Baruch, Auerbach, Poorvu and Stevenson, is where the name came from. Sal Daher: So it's Baruch. Stevenson: Baruch, Auerbach. Sal Daher: Auerbach. Stevenson: A U B A Sal Daher: B A Stevenson: A U Sal Daher: A U Stevenson: P O and S T Sal Daher: And, S T of Stevenson. Stevenson: Yes. I think it happened with a piña colada somewhere on the Caribbean. How Howard Stevenson Shops for Cars Sal Daher: Howard, I find the way you shop for cars, particularly instructive. Please elaborate. Stevenson: I don't shop for cars. When my oldest child turned 16, I handed him a signed check and said, "Go buy me a car." And, people look at me like I'm crazy. But, in fact what I was trying to say to him is, "I trust you. I believe you'll do good research, and I respect your judgment." Because part of the process of educating kids is not saying, "I'm smarter, better, faster than you are." It's saying, "I am asking for your help in important things." I look at buying a car ... First, I hate dealing with car dealers, so I look at it as a pain. I was reasonably sure my sons, who love cars ... Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Would spend more time harassing car dealers. Which, made me feel like I was getting even with these guys. But, in fact they really do the research thing. So, they come back with a great knowledge of the packages that are available. What you want, what you don't want, and what was my risk? A couple thousand dollars, at worst? Sal Daher: Yeah, you might overpay a little bit for a car, but your kid will learn. Stevenson: But, I don't think I ever overpaid. I am absolutely sure that they got better deals than I would. Because, I'd walk in and say, "Oh, I like that car. How much it cost?" Because, I want to get out as fast as I can. Sal Daher: That's interesting, my father-in-law used to do that with his children. He used to give them, when they went to college, the money for the whole year. Give them one check and say, "Here, you've got to pay tuition, your cost of living, everything." Of course, he was overseas in Argentina, and they all came here, and it all worked out. But, sometimes it goes wrong. My dad had a cousin, who when he was away at a university, his family sent him money for the year, and he took the money, and he gambled. Stevenson: Yeah. Sal Daher: So, he didn't have any money for tuition, or anything like that, and then he was afraid to go back home, when everybody else graduated, because he still hadn't studied. Stevenson: Well, but again a car is a different thing. Sal Daher: Absolutely. Stevenson: I would know whether they bought the car or not. Sal Daher: There are guardrails, yeah. Stevenson: And, they probably do have fraud and collusion among the dealers. There's lots of reasons why that's, trust but verify in some ways. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: But it leads to a lot of trust in the judgment. But, it's also a sign of respect for their work, and their ability to think, and their ability to plan. And, I think they figured out that they would get the used car. So, they bought cars they wanted on the next round. Sal Daher: Yeah, so they're highly incented to do that. And, it's consonant also with your idea of having the children be brought in early on wealth, brought in early on responsibility for money, and so forth. Which unfortunately nowadays, children really don't have much of a sense of that, of responsibility with money, and so forth. They don't work, they don't make their own money. At least in my experience, children in America work a lot less, than they used to 20, 30 years ago. Stevenson: The rules are harder to comply with, if you're a company. Sal Daher: Yes, absolutely. Stevenson: We have a friend who owns a car dealership and he got an OSHA citation because he had his 15-year-old son sweeping the floor. So, to me the question of how do you teach responsibility? Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: How do you teach trust? Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: How do you live by example? Are the critical things in Wealth and Families. Sal Daher: That is really beautifully said. Now what advice would you give a young person about building his or her own wealth? Howard Stevenson’s Advice for How Young People Can Build Wealth Stevenson: I think the most important thing you can start at is, assets are more important than income. At least for me I can speak only in the things I tried to teach the kids. But, if you have a high income, you usually have high expenditures. Whereas, some of my colleagues were going off consulting their ... Consulting was a euphemism for teaching in outside courses at GE. They were making a lot of money every day, and they go their XKE (Jaguar XKE, a coveted sports car of the era) quite quickly. I went off to places like Lima, Ohio, and I was paid $300 a day, but I got 1% of the company. Sal Daher: Ah. Stevenson: I always tried to look at the assets side, because I couldn't spend it. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Which meant, if I was right, I was saving it. Sal Daher: So, you looked towards building assets? Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: Instead of building income, necessarily? Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: And in time these assets will generate income, but you weren't looking about income today. Stevenson: I wasn't looking for income today, and I was always trying to say, "How do I use my current income to pay the taxes?" So, I could compound after tax, rather than pre-tax. Sal Daher: Yes. And, another thing that is mentioned in your book. You emphasize very clearly that a house, is not an asset. Stevenson: No, and a mortgage is ... I think of a mortgage as a funny beast. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Because when I didn't have any money, as I said, "I was a scholarship student." Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Then a mortgage was a functional equivalent of rent. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: I still have mortgages, even though I don't need one. But I think of it as the cheapest way to lever my investment portfolio. Sal Daher: Well yes, if you have been reliably producing 16%, 17% returns every year, it makes sense to borrow at 3% or 4%. That is remarkable. So, I really like that advice. Concentrate on building assets, and think about high income leads to high expenditures. That reminds me of a story of Mitt Romney. Stevenson: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Mitt Romney & a Young Colleague on Spending Sal Daher: This is after he had had his initial success. He was with Bain Capital already. A young associate got his first bonus check and he went out and he bought a fancy sports car, and he gave Mitt a ride. Mitt was famous for beat up station wagons. Are you familiar with this story? Stevenson: No, no. I know Mitt well, he was a student of mine. Same class as George Bush, by the way. Sal Daher: I'm not going to ask, who got the higher grade. Stevenson: You don't need to. Sal Daher: I know, no. But, anyway ... So, the young partner said ... Is driving Mitt around, and Mitt was very impressed, he says "Geez, I wish I could afford a car like this." And the young associate said, "Well, Mitt you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars. You can afford this." And the kid didn't get the sense that Mitt didn't think he could afford the fancy sports car. This young kid with his first bonus check goes out and blows it on a fancy car. Stevenson: Well, I think the other thing Mitt would probably say if you got him under sodium pentothal. He doesn't drink so ... Sal Daher: Yeah, I know. That's the darned thing with Mormons, you can't get them drunk. Stevenson: I was raised in Holladay Utah, so I understand it. But I think it's also what behavior you're modeling for your kids. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Because, as my grandmother would say, "Your actions speak so loudly, I cannot hear a word you say." Sal Daher: That is very wise, very wise. Why You Should Review this Podcast on iTunes – It Really Helps Us iTunes Page for the Podcast Where You Can Review and Subscribe Coming up next, we will be shifting to managing your wealth. A matter about which Professor Stevenson has deep experience. However, before we do that, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank listener, SewNow, who left this review on iTunes. "Definitely worth a listen. The series is full of very useful information. It is clear to me that Sal has put a lot of effort into it." SewNow, you have done your part to support the podcast. We bring stellar guests like Professor Howard Stevenson. We come to you free, with no schlocky ads, and professional sound, and you can help by following the example of SewNow, and leaving a review on iTunes. The listenership is growing with every episode, breaking records. It's something like 10% or 15% every month, that they're growing now. That growth combined with more reviews, will eventually cause the iTunes algorithm to start featuring the show. Thus, your review is critical to us. Thanks "Most of the wealthy people I know, are better at making money than managing it." Howard, in your book Wealth and Families you state, "Most of the wealthy people I know, are better at making money than managing it." Please take this opportunity to elaborate on taking on the responsibility of managing your wealth. Stevenson: Well I believe firmly that, you're accountable for your own actions. And, not everybody takes that to the management of their wealth. They think they can outsource it, and the results are often what you'd expect. But, I think it's also, you have to know your own objectives. Why am I interested in wealth? Is there an amount beyond that, it's for charity, or for my kids? I think that thinking through clearly, what your objectives are, and when I use the word your, I mean your spouse, and you probably. Because, if you start early enough, the kids don't have major voice. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: But it's also a subject that's quite un-discussable. I don't know how wealthy many of my friends are, because we never discuss the subject. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: It seems to me that at least within the family, you've got to say, "Here's where we are. Here's where we're going. Here's how we're going to get there." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: That involves a lot of decisions that are complicated. That's before you get to what you do with it, when you have it. Sal Daher: Right, right. Howard Stevenson’s Journey in Investing Began by Reading Graham, Dodd & Cottle in 1961 Stevenson: I guess for me, the question is ... Most people would rather talk to their kids about sex than money. So, you don't learn it at home, in most cases. So, you have to in fact reach out to say, "what do I need to know, to be successful?" So, I started by reading Graham, Dodd, and Cottle in 1961. Sal Daher: Not a bad start. Stevenson: It's probably as good a start as you can have if you want to be a value investor. Sal Daher: Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. Stevenson: That probably is one of the things that made Seth appeal to me. But, all along I felt like, I had to take ownership of my own results. That didn't mean you didn't use brokers. That didn't mean you didn't hire a financial planner occasionally, but you had to take responsibility for your own results. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: But that's humbling. Sal Daher: It is, it is. Stevenson: Because, you'll never know all you need to know. Sal Daher: And, taxing because you will inevitably have reverses. Stevenson: Yes. Sal Daher: And people have the attitude that if they ever lose any money, they've failed. But the goal is not to never lose money. The goal is to grow over time. Stevenson: Well, and anytime you lose money ... Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: It helps to say, "Why?" Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: And you go back to my five categories. Stuff happened, there's nothing you can do. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: I was wrong on the bet. I knew the bet, but something happened that was different than I was betting on. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Also, the humility on the other side to say, "I wasn't a genius because I invested in X." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) "I was smart that I recognized the quality of the people. But, whether it was coming out at 2X or 400X, wasn't in my control." Stevenson: "I was smart that I recognized the quality of the people. But, whether it was coming out at 2X or 400X, wasn't in my control." Sal Daher: Right, right. Stevenson: Whereas, I can assure you, if you listen to many of the professional investors they will say, "I knew it all along." Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: And, in fact many of the 100% losses I had were done when I was investing side by side with professional venture capitalists. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Because, their motive is to shoot for the moon. Sal Daher: Right, right. That is pretty deep. Very good. I guess we talked about this a little bit, but could you go a little bit more into hiring the professional help you need, beyond the financial planner and CPA. When someone starts to accumulate significant wealth. Give us some hints. This is well explained in your book, but maybe give some teasers, that will lead people to look in your book for a really well-developed approach to it. Stevenson: Again, like most things, I'm somewhat humble about giving the absolute rules. But, there are people you know and trust. The first thing is, I don't require a lot of due diligence if Bill Poorvu calls and says, "I want to do this." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: You say, "How much can I come in for?" Sal Daher: Right, right, right. Stevenson: After working with him for 43 years, I have a great deal of faith in his judgment. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: And, they're not all going to win, but when you know and trust people you can get by with little due diligence, and you can ... Also, it's going to be low cost. I don't pay him a fee. Sal Daher: Right, right. In contrast to the process that you went through when you're setting up your family foundation. The Stevenson Family ... Stevenson: Charitable Trust. Sal Daher: Charitable ... No, no, not the trust but the one for managing the funds of the family and ... Stevenson: That we just did ourselves. Sal Daher: Right, right, but you had quotes from ... Stevenson: We had quotes from ... Sal Daher: From various people, and they were just absurdly high. So, you brought your son into it, and then you hire people to do particular chores, and so on and so forth. So, you don't have a lot of high overhead of a normal family office. Stevenson: Well you can see looking around, we don't have a lot of high overhead. Sal Daher: No, no, there's not a lot of overhead. Stevenson: The mahogany furniture from IKEA is ... Shows through. Sal Daher: It's extremely functional, very functional. Stevenson: But, then when you start to say, "The next level is things that come with recommendation." But, even with recommendation you have to actually go out and talk to people. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: It depends on who recommends them. Because, there are people that are chasing the last hot deal, and I don't want to be in with them. So, I have to know not only if it's recommended, but who's recommending it. Sal Daher: Who's recommending, that's right. Stevenson: And, why it is. Then if you're trying to go out to the rest of the world, it requires a lot of due diligence. It's probably going to be expensive. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, for me, I've tried to stay in those first two rings, of people I know and trust, and people that come recommended by people that I know and believe in. There you're going to pay more fees, but that's okay. Sal Daher: Still you're probably much more involved in the management of your wealth, than most people who are comparably wealthy. Perhaps also, because you know so much more. I think that, that is certainly a great lesson here. Stevenson: Think about how hard it is to earn a million dollars. Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: I'm not saying how much I have, but if you have a hundred million dollars, it's easy to lose a million dollars. Sal Daher: It is. Stevenson: Or, to make it. Sal Daher: That's right. Stevenson: What I say is, "the first million dollars is really hard, and the second million is a matter of time." Sal Daher: Exactly, exactly. Stevenson: So, having the long-term perspective, and I could go through some fancy math to show you that in fact, having long term perspective actually is highly beneficial. Because, most of the world is interested in the first two or three years of return. Warren Buffett is the classic example where I think, if you look at his results, it's largely because he bought long duration cash flows. Sal Daher: Ah. He's not buying the first three years, he's buying 15, 20 years out. Stevenson: He's buying the 3 to 15 year. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: And, he's not competing against the ... Sal Daher: Which most people are not interested ... Oh no, that's ... Stevenson: That's too uncertain. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, he spends a lot of time looking at how stable it is. He talks about building moats. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: All those kinds of things, and I think that's a ... Sal Daher: Right, right. Stevenson: I didn't learn it from Warren Buffett, but when I started to examine his way of dealing. I think that's what we've always tried to do is say, "Look, I can't outguess the professionals that have better information, quicker execution, all that in the first three years." Sal Daher: Yes. Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: But if I can find things, that have long duration cash flows. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: I'll probably do quite well over time, because even if you buy something at 10 times earnings, and it’s got 5% growth, you've got a 15% yield. Sal Daher: Right, right. Now that is a ... Stevenson: It's a pretty simple ... You don't need the higher math to ... Sal Daher: No, you don't. Stevenson: Make small amounts of growth, and good profitability ... Sal Daher: And, consistent growth over time. Stevenson: Consistent ... Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: It doesn't mean you don't have down years, because one of the things ... My experience is like in one of my other wow investments, was yeah ... But, they were willing to make the investments when it mattered. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So many of the people would have done really well. See, the first thing we do is serve our customers. The second thing we do is we do it at a profit. Sal Daher: Ha. Stevenson: But the first question is doing, are we serving our customers well? Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) because ... Stevenson: That goes back to what we talking about in terms of criteria. Sal Daher: Because serving your customer well is what assures continued growth, continued profitability over the long term, and not just the short bursts in the first few years. Stevenson: The profit is absolutely critical, because whether you're not for profit, or for profit, if you don't have profit, you're out of business. Sal Daher: Something's got to float the boat. Stevenson: Yes. Talking to Your Kids About Money Sal Daher: Yeah. I really like your approach to letting kids know about family wealth and bringing them up early, and so forth. As a matter of fact, I love that little exchange at the HBS that I attended. A gentleman of advanced years, after you explained that you have to let your children know early on said, during the question and answer session, "So how do you think I should tell my children?" And you looked at him and said, "Looking at you, I think it's a little too late." Stevenson: Well, I do get myself into trouble. Sal Daher: I know, it's just ... Stevenson: It seems to me, that many people underestimate, particularly in this internet age, how much the kids know. They know how much your house is worth. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: They can go on Zillow. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Or their friends will. Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: They can find salaries. They can find the size of your private foundation, if you have one. There's no limit to the data they can have. And, by the way, there's no limit to the data they can make up, or their friends can make up too. Sal Daher: The imagination. Stevenson: Imagination. Sal Daher: Gallops way ahead of reality, yes. Stevenson: they can look at the prices of your cars. But it seems to me, if you start talking to your kids at 10, 12 about, "Well aren't we fortunate. We've been very lucky. We have to work hard at making sure that it's there, and we're working with honest ..." You start talking about what the criteria are to work with people. You start denigrating the get rich quick schemes. Sal Daher: Yes, yes. Stevenson: you start to in fact have them start thinking about, their own financial planning. You also have to help them understand that if you want to be an investment banker, you'll have one life. And, if you want to be a social worker, you'll have another life. Sal Daher: Yes, yes. Stevenson: You're not telling them that one is good and the other is bad, because at least to me, I never wanted the kids to think that having money was the measure of success. Having money is a measure of the options you have for the future. But, if you want to do something that doesn't make you money, you're going to use up some of your capital, and that's fine with me. I'm not going to measure my life on whether you've made money. Sal Daher: So, your job is to explain the consequences of the choices they are making. So, that they make decisions in a way that makes sense. And, they can make the tradeoffs. There's nothing in life that's not a tradeoff. Stevenson: Yeah, well my sons said that I raised him by the case method. I said, "What do you mean?" He said, "if you really like something, you'd say if you'd thought it through, go do it." Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: If you've really hated something you'd say, "Have you thought it thorough carefully, because here are some things that you might want to think about." Sal Daher: It's a case study method. Now please explain your thinking behind tracking of your family's total wealth, rather than your own net worth. I found that quite valuable. Stevenson: Part of it is, when you start to think about giving away money. You probably start thinking when the kids are young with some charity. As the kids get older, when do I transfer wealth to them? As you have more money, you start to say, "Okay, my assistant needs help with the mortgage." Or something. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: Now if you only track only your net worth, you feel poorer every time you do that. Sal Daher: Yes, right, right. Stevenson: If you start to say, "Okay, I want to include the wealth of transfer to other people." And, even the taxes you can say, "I'll feel very good, even though my net worth, as reported on gap basis, may be 15% of the money I've made." But, I'm measuring my contribution to the economic wellbeing of people I care about, except for my Uncle Sam. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, I try to minimize that. Sal Daher: Yes. You care about your whole family, except your Uncle Sam. Stevenson: As I say, "I like my kids, or I love my kids. I can stand my grandkids. I hate my uncle." Sal Daher: Oh! Listeners, I forgot to tell you. Howard's book has cartoons. Here's one. Dogbert is sitting behind a desk talking to Pointy Hair Boss under the caption, "Dogbert Financial Advisor" Dogbert: You should invest all your money in diseased livestock. Dogbert continues: It would be unwise to invest in just one sick cow, but if you aggregate a bunch of them together, the risk goes away. Dogbert concludes: It's math. Pointy Hair Boss replies: Suddenly I feel all savvy. Kindly distinguish between a herd of diseased cows and real diversification. Stevenson: I think that one has to ask the question, "What are the drivers?" And obviously diseased cows are diseased mortgage backed securities, have a single driver. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: In spite of the fact that somebody from your alma mater might say these are diversified portfolios, because they are uncorrelated having real estate in Miami, Las Vegas. Sal Daher: Yes, yes. Stevenson: Phoenix. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: And Boston. Sal Daher: Right, right, right. All under written very poorly to a certain sector of the economy. Likely to lose their job and certainly ... Stevenson: All at once. Sal Daher: All at once. Stevenson: In our investing, as I said earlier, as somebody said, "What are your guidelines?" And the answer is, "We have no guidelines." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: You look at some things and you say, "I think this is a fairly stable way of investing. I don't like to put into funds that lock me up for 10 years. Not because I need the liquidity, but because I want to be able to change my mind." Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: I just looked at a fund today that had a 20-year time frame. Sal Daher: Oh, wow. Stevenson: Now that's fine for me. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: If I control when to sell. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: It's less fine for me, if they control when to sell. Sal Daher: Yes. Stevenson: I won't get into some statistics I've done on the leverage buyout groups. But, I think I could prove to you that their average holding period is under three years. Sal Daher: Oh, yeah. Stevenson: In spite of the fact that they try to tell you they've done a great job with managing, but lever it up. Sal Daher: Yeah ... Stevenson: Take a bit out, and get out of there. So true diversification to me is, look for the underlying drivers. And, if they look the same ... Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: That's not diversification. Let's take the example that everybody thinks Spider is diversified. Sal Daher: Right. Stevenson: Let's see, what percentage of the Spider is high technology unicorns? It's like 25%? Sal Daher: That's right. Stevenson: The top 10 stocks? Sal Daher: Yeah, yeah. They're swinging the index now. Stevenson: Yeah. And, is that diversification, just because you have 500 stocks, if it's all dependent on this one group of ... Sal Daher: At one point, I remember Apple was 3% of the market cap… Stevenson: Well it ... Sal Daher: Of the S&P. Stevenson: In 2001, I think ... I'm getting old and senile, but as I believe, technology represented well over 50% of the S&P in 2001. Sal Daher: Mm-hmm (affirmative) Stevenson: So, anybody who thought they were diversified, was smoking stuff that smelled funny. Sal Daher: So, that sets up our last question here. In your HBS talk, you mentioned starting your profess

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Ep28: The Science Behind Depression and Anxiety | with Dr. D and Dr. Michael Mark

Optimize Yourself

Play Episode Listen Later Dec 5, 2017 74:28

When discussing depression and anxiety, it’s not uncommon to hear people say things like, “Why don’t you just snap out of it!” or, “You just need to get some sleep and you’ll be fine.” But unfortunately for many people like myself, depression and anxiety come part and parcel with being blessed with creative talents. There is no simple way to “snap out of” depression or “sleep off” anxiety if you have the genetic predisposition towards both of these ailments or if your biochemistry has been altered due to external events or circumstances. In this episode I have an in-depth conversation with not one but two experts on the topics of depression and anxiety, Dr. Edison de Mello and Dr. Michael Mark. We talk about the science and biology behind depression and anxiety which can hopefully help you understand why feeling depressed or anxious isn’t “all your fault.” More importantly, beyond simply understanding the neurobiology, we also discuss several treatment protocols that go well beyond simply “popping pills.” Want to Hear More Episodes Like This One? » Click here to subscribe and never miss another episode Here's What You'll Learn: Why there is so much anxiety and “circumstantial" depression in the film industry How diet and psychology factor into treating depression beyond pharmacology What is cortisol, why you need it, and why too much is bad for you Using qEEG and LORETTA to measure neuroelectrical signals in the brain and identify depression or anxiety How depression and anxiety are quantifiable How to identify whether you need to see a professional or if you just need “a good night’s sleep” The cultural expectation that men can’t be “sad” and women can’t be “angry” The generalized picture of a introductory session in integrative medicine A generalized treatment protocol for a new patient who has anxiety or depression What an initial session looks like for neurofeedback to treat anxiety or depression Neurofeedback is just “playing a game, and your brain is the joystick” What a “default brain network” is in laymen’s terms The brain being a combination of fast & slow frequencies and how they relate to anxiety and depression Using biofeedback and Heartmath to reduce anxiety How to properly breathe from the belly to increase oxygen intake Useful Resources Mentioned: The Akasha Center NeuroEdge Centers What is a qEEG? What is LORETTA? Heartmath emWave Pro "Neurofeedback, pt1: My Journey" Our Generous Sponsors: This episode is made possible by Ergodriven, the makers of the Topo Mat, my #1 recommendation for anyone interested in moving more at their height-adjustable workstation. Listen, standing desks are only great if you’re standing well, otherwise you’re constantly fighting fatigue and chronic pain. Not like any other anti-fatigue mat, the Topo is scientifically proven to help you move more throughout the day which helps reduce discomfort and also increase your focus and productivity. And they’re really fun and a great conversation starter. This episode is made possible by the HumanCharger, a revolutionary new light therapy device made specifically for people who spend long days in the dark and don’t get enough sunlight…i.e. You and me. Simply put in the earbuds for 12 minutes a day to receive your daily recommended dosage of UV-free white light. Doing so can drastically increase your energy, improve your mood, and increase mental alertness and focus.This device has literally changed my life and I use it every morning without fail. Use the code ‘OPTIMIZE’ to get 20% off your order. Guest Bio: Dr. Michael Mark is a neuropsychologist, legal professional, and the co-founder of NeuroEdge Inc, a sports concussion and brain treatment center in Southern California. He holds degrees from UCLA and ABSI in Political Science and Neuropsychology, as well as a Juris Doctorate from Southwestern University. He has been an entertainment manager, a professional sports agent, and a lawyer for industry elites. But his current specialty is treating traumatic brain injuries, neurological disorders, and optimizing human performance. Show Credits: This episode was edited by Curtis Fritsch, and the show notes were prepared and published by Jakin Rintelman. Special thanks to Krystle Penhall and Sarah Furie for helping to spread the love! The original music in the opening and closing of the show is courtesy of Joe Trapanese (who is quite possibly one of the most talented composers on the face of the planet). Note: I believe in 100% transparency, so please note that I receive a small commission if you purchase products from some of the links on this page (at no additional cost to you). Your support is what helps keep this program alive. If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me.

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Mudcast Episode 5: Michael Mark and Beast Mode Barbie

More than Mudcast

Play Episode Listen Later Oct 12, 2017 59:59

Coley talks to two contestants from Season 5 of Broken Skull Challenge. Michael Mark talks about the show and Fit Link Media. Brooke Van Paris talks about her time on Broken Skull as well as American Grit. Brooke also tells about how she went from depending on others for the most basic needs to becoming the powerfully independent Beast Mode Barbie!

Super Angel Michael Mark & Marketing Wiz Kathryn Roy in "Ask an Angel Investor" Ep. 23

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Play Episode Listen Later Sep 13, 2017 48:42

Super angel Michael Mark and marketing wiz Kathryn Roy take questions on the topic of angel investing. This was recorded before a live audience at gorgeous Babson College, a university dedicated to teaching entrepreneurship. Sal, as usual, finds it hard to keep his opinions to himself! Topics covered include: Recorded on the Beautiful Campus of Babson College, Thanks to Margaret Jones & Nina Block Michael Mark Mini Bio Kathryn Roy Mini Bio Michael Mark on What Angel Investing Is Not – Not the Best Way to Make a Lot of Money Kathryn’s Thoughts on Making Money in Angel Investing Question from Mark T.: What’s the Minimum Number of Startup Investments to Get a Good ROI? Audience Question: What Are the Three or Four Things You Look for In a Startup? Startup Founder Davey Bakhshi Asks a Question - Fundraising Pointers Davey Bakhshi: Do you Invest in Founders from Other Countries? Have a Real Sales Funnel for your Fundraising – Willy Loman Beats Einstein Monthly Communication with Your Investors and Constituents Lisa’s Question: What Would You Do Differently Today as a Founder Given the Changes? Go to an Incubator What Has Not Changed in Fundraising Question from Listener Martin Aboitiz: What Startups Do You Regret Not Investing In? “Another Train Leaving Every 15 Minutes.” – Michael Mark Question from Kit, a Freshman at Babson: Can You Build Business without Raising Money? Audience Question from Alan, an MBA Student at Babson: Notes vs. Priced Rounds? Audience Question from Marcos, an MBA Student at Babson: How Long Does It Take to Build Trust? Sign up here to be informed about future episodes: Angel Invest Boston Sign Up Link

Michael Mark, Super Angel & Founder - "The Best Pivots Ever?" - Ep. 1

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Play Episode Listen Later Jan 11, 2017 56:34

In our inaugural episode, angel investing prodigy Michael Mark tells fascinating stories that take us from the precocious founding of his first company to his being a highly-prized investor in hundreds of startups today. The narratives are interwoven with entertaining observations of subjects ranging from comedians to co-founders. Some of the most interesting pivots (radical changes of business plan) are elucidated. Michael's dry wit and unassuming manner make his deep wisdom accessible to all of us. If you liked this episode subscribe in iTunes or Google Play so that new episodes will automatically appear in your player. You can find us by searching for Sal Daher or Angel Invest Boston. Sign up at AngelInvestBoston.com Sign Up if you want to be made aware of upcoming in-person events. Obviously, this is of particular interest if you are in Boston or environs. You can also follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn and on Twitter @AngelInvestBOS In this conversation we touched on: The best pivots ever! Need for focus When to pivot How frequently business plans work out Hiring a CEO Qualities of the founders Role of luck in startups I What a board of directors can do for the startup How Michael got started in entrepreneurship Pixability Exos Loop Pay Bettina Hein Beth Marcus Will Graylin Progress Software Interleaf Netegrity Underware

Teaser for Episode 1 - Michael Mark - Best Pivots Ever? - Full Episode coming 1/11/17

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Play Episode Listen Later Dec 4, 2016 6:36

This is a short teaser of the hour-long Epsiode 1 which will be published January 11th, 2017. This teaser contains the entire narrative of what may be the most dramatic and successful pivot ever. In our inaugural episode, angel investing prodigy Michael Marks tells fascinating stories that take us from the precocious founding of his first company to his being a highly-prized investor in hundreds of startups today. The narratives are interwoven with entertaining observations of subjects ranging from comedians to co-founders. Some of the most interesting pivots (radical changes of business plan) are elucidated. Michael's dry wit and unassuming manner make his deep wisdom accessible to all of us.

Shakhtar Donetsk v Sevilla with Michael, Mark and DK

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 25, 2016 4:45

This is an excerpt from The Punt podcast. Michael Wood, Mark Walton and Dave Kelner preview the match. Follow on twitter, @willhillbet, @dkelner, @michaelwood27 and @MarkWalton88.

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Man City v Real Madrid with Michael, Mark and DK

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 25, 2016 7:39

This is an excerpt from The Punt podcast. Michael Wood, Mark Walton and Dave Kelner preview the match. Follow on twitter, @willhillbet, @dkelner, @michaelwood27 and @MarkWalton88.

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Atletico Madrid v Bayern Munich with Michael, Mark and DK

Play Episode Listen Later Apr 25, 2016 7:30

This is an excerpt from The Punt podcast. Michael Wood, Mark Walton and Dave Kelner preview the match. Follow on twitter, @willhillbet, @dkelner, @michaelwood27 and @MarkWalton88.

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Villarreal v Liverpool with Michael, Mark and DK