Podcasts about so laura

Summer's coming!  So today, special education parent and advocate, Lisa Lightner, founder of A Day in Our Shoes, joins me to discuss Extended School Year services.  What are they?  Who gets them? And do you need them?   Check out ADayInOurShoes.com A transcript of this episode can be found here shortly after the episode is published:  https://specialed.law/summer-isnt-just-a-courtesy/ TRANSCRIPT (not proofread) SUMMARY KEYWORDS parents, child, ies, extended school year, iep, school, school district, hear, social skills, students, program, summer, services, lisa, special ed, offering, camp, regression, week, disabilities SPEAKERS Dana Jonson Dana Jonson  00:02 Hello, and welcome to need to know with Dana Jonson. I'm your host, Dana Jonson. And I'm here to give you the information you need to know to best advocate for your child. I'm a special education attorney in private practice, a former special education teacher and administrator, a current mom to four children with IPS and I myself have ADHD and dyslexia. So I've approached the world of disability and special education from many angles. And I'll provide straightforward information about your rights and your schools obligations, information from other professionals on many topics, as well as tips and tricks for working with your school district. My goal is to empower you through your journey. So please subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any new episodes. And I want to know what you want to know. So like, follow and drop me a note on my need to know with Dana Jonson Facebook page. Okay, let's get started. Hello, and thank you for joining me today. I'm very excited to talk about the extended school year today. We are in mid June, which is the end of the school year. And so hopefully if your child requires Yes, why you've already established that in your IEP. But what we're going to talk about more is why do we have it? What is this? Why? Why do we have it? Why do we want it? And do we really want to use it. And I have with me Lisa lightner, who is a parent, and advocate and the founder of a day in our shoes, which is an amazing resource for parents a website with an amazing resource. And we'll get into all of that in a minute. But I wanted to first touch on the fact that if you have not heard yet, I will repeat myself I am going through a transition or not I am not my podcast is need to know with Dana Jonson is going through a transition. And next week will be the final episode as need to know with Dana Jonson. And then I will relaunch again in August as special ed on special ed, it will be special ed experts talking about special ed topics. So basically the exact same content. I'm just changing the name and the logo, because what I learned is that when you search for a special education podcast, need to know doesn't necessarily pop up on your screen. So I have a wonderful and solid loyal audience. And I love you all. And I want to reach more people. So we're just going to change do some cosmetic changes. But I'll be back in August with all the same great content. So I do hope to see you there. Now back to Yes, why? Hello, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. Yay. I want to talk to you because you have a lot of experience with special ed and also with helping parents and with going through the process yourself. So I was hoping you could give me a little background and maybe introduce yourself and how you and a day in our shoes came to be because that website is so amazingly full of information for parents, and probably teachers and administrators as well. I'm going to guess a few of those peruse your site. 03:03 Yes, I know that I do get a lot of school staff traffic, especially for my lists of IEP goals and the various disciplines or areas of need. So yeah, so it's good for both parents and school staff. Although my main goal from the get go and you know, as it continues to be today, as always been to help parents understand the IEP process. Actually, in March, the site just turned 10 years old, which is a little crazy. I know, I can't believe it. Prior to that I actually did have a different I had a separate site and I was working as a teacher, I used to teach a vocational program. And I had a sight completely unrelated to anything disabilities. But I did have a baby with disabilities, his preschool sent home a flyer to take training to become a special ed advocate. His school did. Yeah, he went to an arc preschool. Dana Jonson  03:55 Okay, that makes more sense. I'm envisioning the public school sending you out a flyer. I 04:02 know you went to an ark preschool. So they sent home a flyer to do this special ed advocacy training. And I did it merely because he was a toddler. And I said, you know, this seems like a lot. And I already understood that like, Whoa, this is pretty overwhelming because people were always coming to my house and explaining things to me and paperwork was just, you know, phenomenal. Dana Jonson  04:25 It Anyway, during the lab work and special ed. 04:28 But during the last recession, I lost my job during the 2008 recession. I lost my job, I was already in the training. So suddenly, I had a lot more time on my hands and became you know, was still going through the training, started volunteering, merge that into working part time for the arc as an advocate and then went on, you know, went off on my own started the website. And it's funny because I started the website actually with another friend who is also an advocate and we were like, oh, we're gonna like this website's gonna be about everything special. needs and like we live near where we live in Philadelphia. And we're like, we're going to list camps. And we're going to list programs and support meetings. And I mean, for Philadelphia alone, that amount of information is completely overwhelming. And what I, what I had learned early on is that parents really weren't just coming to the site for the IEP information. And, you know, some of my earliest posts are on things like what to do when your child's suspended manifestation hearings, and just because no one explains that to them and in language that they can understand and kind of walks you through the process. So you know, really, it was the parents who told me, this is what we need to hear, this is what we want to hear. So it's just grown since there. Dana Jonson  05:44 I love it. Because I feel like as you said, it breaks things down in a way that is consumable. You know, that makes sense. And I even find, for me, when I go to look something up, if I go to another attorneys page, sometimes about something in the law, and even I get bored, you know, like, this is so dry. So it's great to have that translation, you know, in what I call real, you know, I 06:07 do read Ida off and in the procedural safeguards, and the Federal Register that goes with it. And you know, it's those paragraphs, you have to go through them three and four times and the sentence at a time and well, then there's case law that defines it afterwards. And it's not really clear cut or black and white as we'd like it to be Dana Jonson  06:25 let's talk about is why does your child heaviest? Why did you have to have this battle at some point? 06:29 Well, first of all, let's let's just clarify, because I do this to ies y means extended school year. Dana Jonson  06:35 Yes. Thank you for slowing me down. I talked so fast. And sometimes I completely forget that. I'm just talking in my own language. But you're right, we're talking about extended school year services, not summer school, not camp, it's very specific service, that children who qualify are entitled to from their school district. And it's an extended school year. That's exactly what it sounds like. It means that your school year will continue beyond when the typical school year ends. So how do we get there? Lisa, why do we want it? What is it? 07:08 Right? Well, so first of all, you said, Did you ever do that battle? And I'd have to say No, I've never had to fight that battle with my child. That's great. Pennsylvania actually does have one case, he's in what is known as the Armstrong group. And it was based on a case you know, Armstrong versus someone I don't remember who it was. But the Armstrong group is kids whose needs are, you know, they're pretty high needs pretty severe autism, intellectual disability, situations like that. So it's kind of like says kids in the Armstrong group are always going to qualify for Yes. Why they're always going to need it. So he's in he's in that group. So it's not thankfully, that's one battle, I don't have to fight every year. Dana Jonson  07:54 Well, that is a good point. And and to start right off the bat, let's talk about why a student might need Yes, why. And I think that there is a misconception, there are several misconceptions about it. One is that it is only for regression. So right, only if you're going to regress, now, all students regress, right? So let, let's just start there, all of them regress over the summer, it's called the summer slide. That's why we have those silly packets, we have to force them to fill out and do over the summer. And you know, in the first month of school is really teachers trying to get kids back into the swing of things and caught back up and figuring out where their slides were. And for children with disabilities, if they are going to regress even more than that typical amount, then that's when we're looking at extended school year services. But what you're saying about this arm strong group in Pennsylvania, which is specific to your state, but we also argue here in Connecticut, which is and everywhere else is that if the nature of the disability is so severe, that the student requires those additional weeks or months to meet their goals and objectives, because that's what they require. They're continuing to work on those pieces, then they might also qualify for extended school year. 09:09 Yeah. And they're actually you know, as you know, there are other criteria, as far as is the child on the verge of an emerging skill, how long it takes them to recoup lost skills, and things like that. So I think that that is probably the biggest myth out there that, you know, he he doesn't regret he's not at fear, or he's not at one of the standard line that I hear from parents is that he's not at risk for regressing, so he doesn't qualify. Dana Jonson  09:34 Well, I think that's how do you define regression? Because as you said, if you're on the verge of an emerging skill, and if you wait till September to continue it, and you will lose that ground, that's called regression. I mean, I think that's how I look at it anyway, you know, so I think we have to look at it from a lot of different places, and sometimes I hear well, they're fine on Christmas break. So we don't have regression, 09:57 right? And that's where I tell parents that you know, It's you have to stay engaged in the process, you know, year round. And because a lot of kids, I mean, a lot of kids do regress, even over Christmas break, but the parent doesn't necessarily document that or it's not the things aren't as visible. And I have to remind parents all the time that, you know, teachers in schools only see what happens at school. So if you're seeing additional things at home, you need to start documenting that. Right. Dana Jonson  10:24 And that's been a neat change over COVID. Right, is that I think parents voices are getting a little louder. Yeah, because they're actually seeing this progression or understanding what regression is. And, and I think that's a good point, because maybe, as you said, an emerging skill. And I'm saying, I see that as regression. But if the parent doesn't know that emerging skill is happening in school, then the parent isn't going to know to document the regression either. Right? So a lot of that comes back to communication and understanding what's in the IEP and what your child is working on. 10:54 Yes. And I believe, and I, sometimes I get confused in my head, I'm like, is this Pennsylvania specific? Or is this Ida, but I believe it's in Ida that no single factors should decide whether or not the child gets Yes, why. So even if that alone, if you're saying, well, the child doesn't regress enough to get Yes. Why? Well, Ida says, it shouldn't be any one single factor, Dana Jonson  11:16 right? There should take in a whole bunch of components. And as we know, every child is different. And we individualize. So how do you find ies wise typically provided when you're advocating for students? And you're looking for extended school year programs? How do you find that that is typically provided to families? 11:35 Yeah, so one of the other tenets of ies why is that it's supposed to be individualized? No. Dana Jonson  11:45 I heard a rumor. 11:48 But that is honestly I would say, and I get it, I get that only certain teachers agree with their contract to work over the summer, certain therapists, things like that, and busing and, you know, bus, what's the word? I'm looking for contracts and therapist contracts, you know, because a lot of these things, therapies and you know, like bcbas, and transportation, mostly, you know, a lot of schools don't have their own they contract out. So I get that, from an administrative standpoint, it makes a lot of sense to just say, Hey, we're doing four weeks in July, Monday through Thursday, nine to one See you there. But around here anyway, that's getting to be just the norm. You know, hey, we'll see in July, Monday through Thursday, nine to one, Dana Jonson  12:32 right and less if it depending on when the Fourth of July falls? Yes. Right. Because that could add or eliminate a whole week, 12:39 right? And then we have a whole other situation where in the city, if the buildings aren't air conditioned schools get canceled. And a lot of you know, because I live in an old area. I live near Philadelphia, and a lot of these buildings aren't air conditioned. So then that throws in a whole other. Dana Jonson  12:55 No, yeah. And Connecticut schools can't go past the end of June because no schools are mandated to be air conditioned. And it's hot here. You know, we had a heatwave the other week, I was surprised, no schools closed. Because you need air conditioning in Connecticut in the summer. 13:10 Right. And they did actually, that was just You're right. That was just like last week, and Philadelphia schools did dismiss early they dismissed at lunchtime each day, because it just got too hot. So yes, I would say the biggest trend and but it's also the biggest concern is just that that whole individuality piece, as far as eBay just gets tossed out the window. And I think parents need to engage more and investigate. Like, I think they spend so much time focusing on whether or not their child qualifies. And oh, I just want them to get as why that they're not digging deep and saying, Okay, I gotta Yes, why now what's going to happen? Because it's to be based on your child's IEP. And if they're going to do you know, two hours of La each day and two hours of math and then send your kid home, and your child doesn't necessarily have needs in those areas, then you know why, you know, nobody wants to go to school in the summer, right? As Americans, we're just we're programmed to not think about school to not go to school in the summer, and nobody wants to do it. So if you're going to get your child in ies why let's make it meaningful, right? Let's, you know, if they're going to go and you're going to do that, let's make it meaningful. Dana Jonson  14:15 I hear that as well, that, you know, we want as why we want as why, and then, you know, maybe I get EMI for my client. And later they say, Well, that wasn't really what they needed. I have to remind clients that that you are the parent, and they're all these experts around you. And you know, I'm using air quotes for experts that you can't see. But there are all these experts around you telling you what it should be. And at the end of the day, as you said, if if it's focused on math and reading and your child's issues, their social skills, and schools can't mandate typical students to attend summer programs or ies. Why then is that program really benefiting your child? You have to figure that out. There's no one else around is going to do it for you. 14:55 The flip side of that is that parents who are fairly certain that their child is going to get the Guess why they some of them jump right to the so I found the summer camp. mean, I found the social skills summer camp, and I'm going to make the school pay for it. Meanwhile, social skills isn't even an identified area of need in the IEP. So right, you know, again, it has to be individualized. But it also has to be defined as an area of need in the IEP. And as you said, they cannot force non IEP students to attend Yes, why to enable that LRE. Dana Jonson  15:26 That's a very good point, because I have had parents call me and say, You know, I think my child really needs the social skills piece. But there is no social skills, as you said, in the IEP, that's a red flag, right? If, if you're looking for a service that is not in your child's IEP, it should be, then we need to revisit that whole component. Because, you know, some children, if they go the whole summer, and they don't have friends, their parents can do their level best to get those interactions, but they're not getting that peer interaction, like they get at school. And that's a really long time to go without that. 16:02 Right. It is, and especially this year, you know, because many had at least a year gap, if not more, you know, some stayed home through May or June and are not going back until the fall. So they haven't been there since last March. You know, and I know a lot of schools have been in the fall and it gradually more and more throughout the school year. But yeah, I mean, it's that is a long time. Dana Jonson  16:22 Did you find where you are or where you are now? Do you find that schools are opening up ies wise and or summer school and or recruitment programs? Not recruitment Brit re yeah recoup recoup not recruit programs to help students who had that that huge gap because I find there are some some schools around where I am that are doing that that are being more proactive and saying like last year, they said anyone who wanted to go to ESRI could 16:51 Yeah. So Laura. And I actually know Laura, who works for those of you missed it on Laura did was gracious enough to do a facebook live with me. And we talked about comp services due to COVID and getting the services. Because what another issue you know, of course, keep in mind, nobody ever comes to me when things are going well, they only come to me, right? things aren't going well, right? I have to constantly remind myself of that. But a lot of parents are inquiring about comp services like hey, my child missed a year of this and you know, you're have that. And then it's Oh, well, he can go to ies Why then he can go to ies Why? And again, it's about that digging deeper and saying well, but this is what he missed. So what is ies? Why, and and what's going to happen there? And is that sufficient? Because yes, I do see a lot of schools being more generous with offering EFI to students. But again, just bring them in for a couple of hours to do some reading and some math. Dana Jonson  17:47 Kids don't progress through osmosis. Right? Right, just appearing in the school, 17:53 they're not getting that pull out, or they're not getting their therapy, or whatever it is, because I hear all kinds of crazy stuff like, well, we don't do OT and E s y. And like, I don't you know, Dana Jonson  18:02 any any statement that starts with we don't, is usually incorrect. 18:08 The only thing the only one that I will say applies this time is that for as why the school cannot guarantee LRE. But other than that everything apply. Dana Jonson  18:18 And that's fair, because you can't compel typically developing students to go to a summer program. Right? I do hear that argument, though, for students who really require interaction with typically developing students that truly is what helps their progress and their success in the classroom or the environment that they're in whatever that may be. And so, you know, I often have situations where parents say, Well, why can't they do their ies? Why at a camp? Why can't they do that? And my responses they can, we can absolutely do that, if that's what's necessary. And how do we set that up to make that that argument that that is what your child requires. But that goes back to what you're saying about the individualization. And I think a lot of parents are trained to understand that are taught that this nine to one July program is actually what he is why it is, right. Yeah, you know, that they actually believe that's what it is. So because that's what it's called. And so, you know, when we're looking at extended school year, you know, programs and I hear schools say, well, it's really just about regressions, so we don't have to add anything new. So we're okay here. How do you go about working with parents to come up with creative ways to identify and and obtain those different kinds of extended school years? 19:43 Okay, so first of all, it depends. I have to tell you, it honestly depends on what time of year they come to me because the parents who are coming to me now and it is happening now, sometimes time is just not on your side, right? It just isn't, and so to Come to me, you know, Memorial Day or June 15, and say, Oh, well, I'm not happy with this ESP program from a time factor, there's usually not a lot I can do, because what I have always always preached is, you know, look at the present levels, present levels is what drives the IEP. And if this need is not in present levels, it's, then there's not going to be a goal for it. And if there's no goal for it, there's not going to be any supports and services for it. Right. And so that's, that's usually at the core of the issue is that there's an identified need. So then, okay, well, let's get it identified. Well, that takes time. And that's the kind of thing you know, like, he's, like you said, going back to their social skills example, if mom and dad are seeing that the child's struggles with social skills, but he's able to get through school day, and it's not an identified need on an IEP, you know, again, you can't go to the school and say, Well, this is the social skills camp is what he needs for EAS, why? What his child needs is some evaluations to show that he lacks social skills. And that's going to take time, and on June 15, you know, I can't necessarily help you there. So from the school's point of view, what I do always do say to parents, as you know, like, look at these camps, most of them are nonprofits, look for scholarships, look for, you know, go to your Lions Club, though, to your co Ana's club, your rotary and see if they do sponsorships for, you know, children in the community with disabilities. And if they would sponsor this camp for you, if you cannot afford it. And also, you know, if you, I get it, we're guaranteed faith, and that first word is free. But just because our kids are guaranteed fate doesn't mean that if you have a disabled child that you're never ever going to have to pay for anything for them ever again. So you know, some good point, yeah, and some parents are in a position to pay for these things. And that is, you know, what I call the path of least resistance. If I can't help you demonstrate this week, you know, that your child needs social skills, then I just don't really think that's going to be an option for you. Like, we can go through the motions and we can get things started. But the school is under no obligation in most cases to evaluate for this camp starts and things like that. Dana Jonson  22:09 I've seen that there was like a, as a plan on school districts part is that they make it a little difficult. So for parents who can pay for ies why they just do they just find something and pay for it. And again, the path of least resistance. And I do get that as well. But then I also find that what ends up happening is the people who can't afford to place are stuck and fighting their district. And the district is playing the same game with them. So they're having to push back and they can't afford to push back or to unilaterally place. And that's where we run into trouble. A lot of times, too, when I get that call, I also have to remind parents that hiring me to get the school district to say yes to Yes. Why may cost you more than the EMI program. 22:55 Right. A great example is several years ago, I had a family and they wanted this 15 $100 s y program, and we ended up going to mediation. And yes, the girl got it, the female student got the program in mediation that that we wanted. But I mean, I'm sitting there in mediation, looking at this table of like, seven or eight school staff. And it was this time of year. I mean, it was summer had already started school is out. And I thought you know, here, we have a superintendent and me, you know, they're paying me and all these people and to challenge us on a 15 $100 program. So and yes, I certainly acknowledge that, you know, of course, I go off on tangents and talk about this stuff all day. There certainly is a gap in a you know, in public education, certainly between the haves and the have nots. And having a parent pay for a program that they can afford, can exacerbate that gap. And I'm not I don't want to come across as that I'm comfortable with that, like, Oh, well, too bad for you. If you can't afford it, you know, again, that's how I understand Yeah, you can look into, you know, you can try to look into scholarships and things like that. But for the parent who can afford it, like I said, you know, you and I will probably still get one or two more calls this week, from parents. Yeah, from parents who are looking for EMI. And you know, in some cases, when you come to us at this time of year that if you want that program, they're like, well, it starts June 21. Like I These are your options, you sign up and pay for yourself or you know, Dana Jonson  24:22 well until that point, and I want to be really clear that neither Lisa nor I are giving any legal advice here. Lisa is not an attorney, but I am and I'm not giving legal advice and I don't know your your students situation. But to that point, if a parent were to do that, and go pay for their program themselves, and I always want to make this clear to any parent anytime. If you expect any money back from a district that you spend, you have to go through a very important legal process and document and note it properly. And the most, the most important part is you have to give 10 days notice so Before your child leaves the public school, not before they start the new program, before they leave the public school 10 days beforehand, at least, you must have given notice in writing that the school district did not offer an appropriate program, that you're in disagreement with their program, that you believe this is an appropriate program. And that you will be placing your child there, and that you expect to get reimbursement later that you're preserving your rights to reimbursement. That's very important. I also usually mentioned to parents, if you're spending money, you want to get back, talk to a lawyer, it's that simple. talk to a lawyer is the best way to make sure you've covered your ground. But so for those of you who are listening to us right now and thinking, Oh, I didn't get ies why yet I got to figure that out. Make sure that you talk to somebody, so you're doing it the right way. But for people who already have it in their IEP, and the issue is a dispute of where it is, you know, yes, there are a lot of options. So that kind of brings me to another question that Lisa, which is through your child does qualify and you do get it? Do you have to go? And I get that a lot from parents too, who say I don't want to say no to anything. I don't I don't want to say no, because you don't you don't want the IP to be weakened because you're going to visit grandma for the week. You don't want to not have it in there. So how do you advise parents who asked that question? Do I have to go to ies wire does my child have to 26:21 go? I know it's parents spend so much time and it is such a fight some time to get services that they're so they just don't want to decline? Anything that's offered to them. And I get it. I Dana Jonson  26:31 never did either. I mean, I bore kids with IPS. So I totally understand. 26:37 I mean, first of course, ask the special ed director or ask whoever's running the EFI program, you want to know what's going to happen there. Because as I said earlier, you want to make it meaningful, right? If you are going to send your child to school during the summer, which is going to affect you know, the entire household, right? You want to see what's going on? And is it appropriate for your child? Is it going to be meaningful? It's not talked about a lot, but school districts are not actually permitted. And it's not legal advice. But school districts are not permitted to retaliate against parents for refusing services. So in a perfect world, no, that shouldn't be held against you, as we all know what what the statute says and what happens every day is not necessarily the same thing. But no, they're not supposed to retaliate against you are not permitted to retaliate against you for refusing a service. That being said, I haven't This isn't an area where I would necessarily expect to see a lot of retaliation because they the school district has planned their ESP program. They've hired X number of teachers and X number of Paras and they do kind of have a cap on, you know, yep, this is how many kids we're going to offer. Yes. Why to? So being able to cut those numbers back, I wouldn't necessarily expect retaliation in this area, because it is going to save the district money, right? If five parents say no, that might be another pair that they don't have to hire for ESXi. So I wouldn't necessarily be afraid of that. I would you know, Dana Jonson  28:04 I also find that as wide disputes, and as soon as I say this, it's going to change. I'm going to jinx myself. But I tend to find that because yes, why programs, as you said you're fighting over a 15 $100 program, oftentimes as Why is not as cost prohibitive as a program during the school year. So I find that those disputes are often easier to resolve, because they're short term, they're short lived, and they're not tremendously expensive. So I see the bigger fights for ies wise, when you have a child who really requires a 12 month program, that's usually where we have like the more major disputes, and we don't have that in place. Or for students who require two months of extended school year, not just one, 28:47 right, that I that you're right, and that, you know, if they're offering where I see the disputes is the parents who are trying to buck the school with the you know, this, this nine to one monday through thursday camp program isn't appropriate for what my child needs. So and in fact, that 15 $100 program was just that we wanted something at the local university, which was completely appropriate for what this girl needed. And the camp program that the school was offering was not appropriate. So like he said, that's where I see the issues is when parents don't want to do the camp program, and they do want the summer camp or the something else, which in many cases may be really appropriate. You know, if social skills is your biggest is your child's biggest need, you know, but again, it's going back to getting that documented, and is that a you know documented area of need and all that Dana Jonson  29:34 I often recommend the parents if they are sending their child somewhere else that they explained to the school district how that will address some of the issues for us Why? Because a lot of times going to that summer camp. It's not a special ed camp. It's not providing those educational components, but it will address the special education needs of the child and that's what we're looking for. right we're looking for to address the special education needs of the child. And I think that oftentimes that puts the district at rest to Okay, well, you're doing your thing, but we know that at least that they're getting some services. So when we come back to the table in September, we're still on the same page. You know, school isn't going to say, I can't teach your kid because you didn't send them to us why, right? That's not gonna happen, right? Yeah, I 30:21 was for EFI, or for any really, you know, I guess, an alternative si program is really an out of District placement, right? Because you're not doing with the district, in district for any out of District placement, I say, go there, ask them or talk to them read the website, what are they doing at that placement that your child needs, that they are possibly, they're just never going to get that in what the district is offering, right. Dana Jonson  30:47 And a lot of times, it's the typically developing peers, the role models, the social skills, and I've had school districts send a para to the local camp, if a student was maybe going to the local camp, and the parent was paying for the camp, but maybe the school sent the para, that's not typical. So don't get excited about that. But I have seen it happen that way. I've also seen ies y in the form of like some one on one tutoring. 31:12 Yep. Oh, yeah, I've seen a lot of you know, some kids don't need nine to one every day. But they do need to keep up on some things. So once or twice a week might be you know, and now every school district in the country just about is set up to do things virtually. So if your child's needs are strictly academic, you know, maybe they don't need to leave the house, maybe they do only need an hour, a day or an hour a week of some online tutoring, or some you know, instruction or something like that, working with his teacher. Yeah, I mean, just, you know, like you're talking about an out of District, but they sent the para, you know, be creative and think about everything, you know, think about what you can offer them and because it is you know about being collaborative, Dana Jonson  31:51 and I find that the more options a parent comes to the table with and also though, to your point, understand what your school is offering going in and saying I know you're Yes. Why is canned? And doesn't do anything isn't an argument. Right? It's definitely not a legal argument. But it's also not an argument and you don't have a really good ground to stand on. You know, if you're and I think other parents are great resource, and we need them, and they help you. But you have to get the information yourself. 32:21 Yeah, I would ask to see like curriculum or lesson plans or something, because what I've found is a lot of parents will call an IEP meeting to talk about this. And then they say, Well, my child needs this and they go, okay, we do that. And they go, Well, my child needs this. Oh, yeah, we do that they do everything. Right. They do everything in these four hours, right. So it's, it's getting some not just verbal reassurance, but something else that like, you want to know what they're doing each day, I've found that a lot of them are just a lot of fun time to you know, a lot of outdoor games and, and I get it, it's summer, you want to keep things light, but you know, I'm not going to send my kids every day to go play in the playground for four hours, either, you know, because that's not helping him or anyone else. So Dana Jonson  33:05 right. So yeah, so I think, you know, understanding very thoroughly what the school district is actually offering and what that looks like, it's hard because parents can't observe the ESA, during the school year, because it's not there. So that's a bit challenging. So you do have to rely on other parents and their experiences. But yeah, going to your team and asking them to pull out specifically, what are we working on, I hear a lot of well, it's only to prevent regressions. So it's going to be a lot less, it's going to be minimal. It's going to be all these things. I actually this year had a an PPT or in Connecticut, we call them ppts. But an IEP meeting, where they said the formula we use is and I thought, okay, thank you for sharing, we're going to revisit that. You know, there's no one formula for ESP for every child on the planet. And that is really the key part. And I do believe that a lot of the ESP programs that schools have can address a lot of students needs, but not all of them, right? Not every child and not every need. So we do really need to take those those ideas and those thoughts and think outside the box. I also caution parents that a lot of times I find schools, at least I have found and again, I don't come in unless there's a problem. And there's another attorney at the table. So usually we're there to try and fix the problem. That's the goal. But I find that we can be very creative, and in a way that school districts can't always be at the IP table. So to also be a little flexible with the IEP team. Yeah. Could we could we maybe come to a better agreement outside of this meeting? Because I think we can resolve the issues. You know, if there's an issue and an easy way to resolve it, why wouldn't the school want to 34:51 Right, right. I think also, you know, obviously the internet and social media has been a complete game changer for IEP parents, right like One of my mentors has a disabled son who's my age. And so she tells me about in the 70s standing by her mailbox, like literally waiting for this newsletter to get to her home, you know, because that's was the 70s. Right? So it's been a complete game changer, the Dana Jonson  35:13 fact that she could find a newsletter in the 70s and 80s. I'm really impressed with. 35:19 But I think that it's it's been a mixed blessing because I think parents see other parents getting things doing things, and then they think, Oh, my gosh, I have to be doing that. And not every child with an IEP gets ies Why? And not every child with an IEP needs is why and you kind of have to go with your gut, I, you know, go with your gut instinct, and then work on defining that gut instinct, you know, with your IEP team, but it's okay, if your child doesn't need ies Why? Just because you see all these other parents doing it. And I feel like it has become kind of like the latest, like buzz word are out there like, Yeah, do you have Yes. Why do you have vs? Why? What do you know? And it's okay to not go to ies why it's okay. You know, again, it's okay to tell the school No, but it's also okay, if Dana Jonson  36:04 you can also get your accommodations for your summer packet, you know, so, so your child might not need Yes, why, but if they had that summer packet that everybody else has, you can be requesting things through their, their IP that they may need to assist them through that packet. And that may even include touching in with a teacher, or, or something like that, without necessarily being an extended school year. 36:29 And I but I see a lot of I think parents, IEP parents, we are so fists up ready for battle all the time, that as soon as we hear no, we're prepared to fight for it, you know, and so you're in your IEP meeting in January, February? And they say, okay, yes. Why we don't think your child qualifies. And just because they were told no, like, the parent automatically thinks, well, they told me no, so I better fight for this. And again, not every child needs it. And that's okay. Dana Jonson  36:57 You know, and I also like, when they say that in October, I usually say can we reconvene, and let's just reconvene and like may and talk about it again, we get a little closer. But I agree with you, just because it exists doesn't mean you have to have it or that your child can get it, you know, your child truly may not qualify. Right, right. And then you're fighting a losing battle. And I do see that because I think that if you feel like you're not getting everything that you need, or your child is not getting everything that they are entitled to over here. And then you see this other thing over there. And like, why can't we get that? And I try to remind parents to keep the focus, what is it that you want, just because you're not getting this thing over here doesn't mean we want to distract our efforts to fight for all this other stuff over there that maybe we don't really need. Let's stay here and get this piece here that we want. And I think that's a good point. You know, not everybody qualifies for it. And it's it's not the end of the world, 37:53 right. And also that I see a lot of parents put their hopes into, they think that in the summer program that their child is going to catch up, well, that's great, I'm going to send him to ies wine, he's going to catch up to his peers, I have never seen that happen. I mean, never Dana Jonson  38:07 well. And I like to say if your child didn't catch up with their peers over the school year, there's a good chance, they won't catch up in four weeks from nine to one, you know, so it's and it's not meant for that it's not summer school, it's not you fail the class. And so now you're taking it again, or you're improving your grade. it's specific to the IEP, and it's specific to the child's needs, and to ensure ongoing progress and a lack of regression. So you know, as we said, I do hope that everybody out there who wants to swipe either has it or has it lined up. But keep in mind that you don't necessarily require EMI. And if you don't require it, or if you don't like it, you don't necessarily have to go to it. The other piece I like to tell parents is you can disagree with it and send your child that's another one you have to remember, if you disagree with it, but you don't have an option. You can tell them you disagree with it to preserve your rights for later on down the road. If something else comes up, you can say I disagree with it. I don't think this is appropriate, but I am going to send them. So that's sort of a another piece to consider. Because I also know sometimes parents don't speak up because they're afraid if they say they don't that it's not appropriate. There won't be any other options. 39:17 Yeah. And it always goes back to what I've preached for 12 years is that all parents need to stay engaged in, you know, an IEP is not just an annual meeting, you have to stay engaged all the time. And yes, in Ida it says that you're supposed to be notified of the school's ies why decision with enough time to exercise their procedural safeguards. So, you know, again, I tell parents, if you're if you haven't heard anything by March or April, you know, it's okay to send an email, you know, look at your IP, see what it says and send an email and ask, you know, because you do need time to exercise your procedural safeguards, Dana Jonson  39:53 but don't wait for the school to come to you. Right, right. Exactly. It's sort of like if your point of my teenage I have three teenagers driving right now. And I told one of them, I was like, oh, look out for that. And they're like, oh, if they hit me, it would be their fault. And I thought, Well, yeah, it would be their fault. But you wouldn't have a car, or you might have broken bones. So a little bit of an extreme example, but you know, if you want, yes, why, and you're waiting, and you know, the school district hasn't done it, and you're waiting, then, you know, you're you're hurting yourself. It might be their fault. And they might be wrong, but your child won't have this. Why? 40:30 Right. And it's June 15. So it's June 15. You hire me or or Dana, you know, it's gonna take us weeks to you know, even get going on that. Dana Jonson  40:41 I mean, it would take me two weeks to even establish probably a first call with an attorney. Yeah, you know, cuz no one has time to breathe right now. So now, that's a good point. Thank you, Lisa. Is there any last points on eBay? I feel like we kind of covered it all. You 40:55 know what, I just want to ask you one question, because it's your house. I've only had one family in 12 years. Have you ever successfully, you know, with or without your services? Maybe they maybe they resolve it on their own? Or you heard it from another attorney colleague, you know, forever? I've been told that he is why is not just for summer. It's anything that goes above and beyond the school year. Have you ever been successful with like weekend or holiday Christmas holiday? Yes. Why? Things like that? I've only ever had one? Dana Jonson  41:24 a great question. I have not actually argued that. That is not in 15 years, I've been practicing as an attorney for 15 years in special ed. And I have not argued that. But that is a great question. Because you're right. Yes, extended school year is extended school year, we're trained to believe that extended school year is nine to one in July. Right. Right. That's how we've been conditioned. But it's not. It's an anything above and beyond that same as extended day. 41:55 There are advocates around here who preach that and they say, well, you can ask for stuff on Saturdays. And you can ask for stuff on Christmas break and things like that. I've never, like I said I've had one. But we have a we have a weird thing in pa where most kids with disabilities can get wraparound behavioral health. So we can get home services. And those folks are permitted to do community based instruction and go out in the community with your child. So we can go about it the Medicaid route and get that. Now mind you, that's nothing academic, it's only behavioral. Dana Jonson  42:27 But if it's impacting their education, it's educational right here, it's 42:30 not really even an issue because like, well, this is my wraparound services Dana Jonson  42:34 students I've had who require that level of intensity are usually in our placements. When I'm involved. That's usually my experience. So I haven't argued for that or really seen that as a problem. But it is a really good point. And I think the good piece about the vagueness of VSI is what if you want a service that you can only get on a Saturday, you know what, if there's something out there, then it really shouldn't matter when it's offered? Does that make sense? 43:02 Yeah, no, because we do have a university around here that does a lot of behavioral stuff, and a lot of social skills and executive functioning clinics and camps and sessions and, and they're all on Saturdays. Dana Jonson  43:14 So it shouldn't matter that it's on a Saturday, it should be you know, and if it's during the school year, you could argue it's extended school year, because it's additional school days, or extended school day. You know, I've had students where they say, Oh, well, if the student you know, they have to attend the homework Hall, if they have to attend it, that sounds like an extended school day to me, you know. So I think there there are definitely ways to argue that I just I have found typically when I have had students in cases where they required that level of intensity, they're already in a program that probably provides it and, and in Connecticut, we also have other agencies that provide Home Services, depending on your situation, depending on your disability, depending on your insurance, depending depending depending so many things. So but again, that goes back to individuality of the child. 44:03 And I was just curious, because I've just heard it exists, but it's like a unicorn. I've Dana Jonson  44:06 never really seen it in action. But if if anyone out there has seen this, please reach out to me. I would love to hear about it. If you have obtained extended school year services and in a unique manner. I would love to hear about it. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. This was really wonderful. I thoroughly enjoy all of your resources and your website and your video casts and your live streams. So I strongly recommend you check out a day in our shoes. And if you're listening to this, you can go back to the show notes. I will have all of Lisa's information on her website in there. If you feel like Lisa speaking my truth. She's the only person I can talk to. I'll ever contact information. And you know, hopefully everybody is set up and ready to go into summer God willing. Thank you so much for joining me today. Please don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss any new episodes. And if there Anything you want to hear a comment on, go to our Facebook page and drop me a note there. I'll see you next time here on need to know with Dana Jonson have a fabulous day

Failure happens to everyone; we will experience it at some point in our lives. Despite our sacrifices and hard work, we may not achieve what we set out to do. It is, however, important to approach failure not as the end of a journey but as a crucial lesson. And it doesn’t matter how many times you fail—physical, emotional and mental resilience will take us one step forward towards our eventual success and victory.  Laura Penhaul joins us in this episode to share the story of her expedition across the Pacific Ocean. She describes the preparations she undertook, from planning the expedition to gaining financial support. Laura also talks about the importance of breaking down the journey and being clear with team dynamics in the expedition’s success.   If you want to know more about the makings of strength and mental resilience in a person, then this episode is for you.   Get Customised Guidance for Your Genetic Make-Up For our epigenetics health programme all about optimising your fitness, lifestyle, nutrition and mind performance to your particular genes, go to  https://www.lisatamati.com/page/epigenetics-and-health-coaching/.   Customised Online Coaching for Runners CUSTOMISED RUN COACHING PLANS — How to Run Faster, Be Stronger, Run Longer  Without Burnout & Injuries Have you struggled to fit in training in your busy life? Maybe you don't know where to start, or perhaps you have done a few races but keep having motivation or injury troubles? Do you want to beat last year’s time or finish at the front of the pack? Want to run your first 5-km or run a 100-miler? ​​Do you want a holistic programme that is personalised & customised to your ability, your goals and your lifestyle?  Go to www.runninghotcoaching.com for our online run training coaching.   Health Optimisation and Life Coaching If you are struggling with a health issue and need people who look outside the square and are connected to some of the greatest science and health minds in the world, then reach out to us at support@lisatamati.com, we can jump on a call to see if we are a good fit for you. If you have a big challenge ahead, are dealing with adversity or are wanting to take your performance to the next level and want to learn how to increase your mental toughness, emotional resilience, foundational health and more, then contact us at support@lisatamati.com.   Order My Books My latest book Relentless chronicles the inspiring journey about how my mother and I defied the odds after an aneurysm left my mum Isobel with massive brain damage at age 74. The medical professionals told me there was absolutely no hope of any quality of life again, but I used every mindset tool, years of research and incredible tenacity to prove them wrong and bring my mother back to full health within 3 years. Get your copy here: https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books/products/relentless. For my other two best-selling books Running Hot and Running to Extremes chronicling my ultrarunning adventures and expeditions all around the world, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books.   Lisa’s Anti-Ageing and Longevity Supplements  NMN: Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, a NAD+ precursor Feel Healthier and Younger* Researchers have found that Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide or NAD+, a master regulator of metabolism and a molecule essential for the functionality of all human cells, is being dramatically decreased over time. What is NMN? NMN Bio offers a cutting edge Vitamin B3 derivative named NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) that is capable of boosting the levels of NAD+ in muscle tissue and liver. Take charge of your energy levels, focus, metabolism and overall health so you can live a happy, fulfilling life. Founded by scientists, NMN Bio offers supplements that are of highest purity and rigorously tested by an independent, third party lab. Start your cellular rejuvenation journey today. Support Your Healthy Ageing We offer powerful, third party tested, NAD+ boosting supplements so you can start your healthy ageing journey today. Shop now: https://nmnbio.nz/collections/all NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 capsules NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 250mg | 30 Capsules 6 Bottles | NMN (beta Nicotinamide Mononucleotide) 500mg | 30 Capsules Quality You Can Trust — NMN Our premium range of anti-ageing nutraceuticals (supplements that combine Mother Nature with cutting edge science) combat the effects of aging, while designed to boost NAD+ levels. Manufactured in an ISO9001 certified facility Boost Your NAD+ Levels — Healthy Ageing: Redefined Cellular Health Energy & Focus Bone Density Skin Elasticity DNA Repair Cardiovascular Health Brain Health  Metabolic Health   My  ‘Fierce’ Sports Jewellery Collection For my gorgeous and inspiring sports jewellery collection ‘Fierce’, go to https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/lisa-tamati-bespoke-jewellery-collection.   Here are three reasons why you should listen to the full episode: Gain valuable insights through Laura’s journey and expedition across the Pacific Ocean. Learn about mental resilience and adaptability in dealing with failure.   Discover the importance of team dynamics in the success of Laura’s expedition.   Resources Gain exclusive access to premium podcast content and bonuses! Become a Pushing the Limits Patron now! Support healthy ageing through the NAD+ boosting supplement, NMN! Visit NMN Bio for more information.  Watch Losing Sight of Shore, a documentary about four brave women rowing across the Pacific Ocean, from America to Australia. The strength of adaptability: achieving the impossible, Laura Penhaul on TEDxTruro What it takes for a team to survive 9 months at sea, Laura Penhaul on TEDxClapham Endurance podcast with Mark Beaumont and Laura Penhaul Endurance: How to Cycle Further by Mark Beaumont Connect with Laura: Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn   Episode Highlights [05:12] Laura’s Background Laura worked in elite sport for the Olympics and Paralympics for more than 14 years. As a physical therapist, she was able to see people through their journeys as athletes.  In the face of adversity, Laura found two types of people: those who bounced back from it and those who gave up because of it.  She was inspired by those who wanted to thrive and make the most out of life.  She never experienced rowing before, but she was searching for a challenge. Ocean rowing was something she found ideal.  The expedition gave her a lot of learnings.  [12:58] Gaining Confidence Reach out to those who have done what you want to do or to those who have expertise.  Laura had to break down the journey and prepare for it: planning the possibility of the route, gaining logistical and structural support, planning out the time frame and preparing the team.  She expected to finish in a year but didn’t. It took four years of planning before they could carry out the expedition.  She had to learn from her failures, figure out her blind spots and reach out to other people for help.  [16:12] Gathering Financial Support and Sponsorships At first, Laura could not ask for money to support her journey. She reached out to people who worked in business and sponsorship. They helped her shape her deck, brand and business model.  She also reached out to Mark Beaumont, an elite expedition athlete. She learned from his experience and failures.  With Mark’s help, Laura could have a structure for the timeline, budget and sponsorship.  [20:06] Physical, Emotional and Mental Resilience  Optimise your own elite performance.  Break down the journey and plan everything. Being prepared makes you feel confident when dealing with the unknown.  Have the courage to step away from comfort and the norms.  Push outside of your comfort bubble to reach your full potential.  [25:40] Going Beyond Your Comfort Zone Laura considers herself a calculated risk-taker.  She does not leap blindly and makes sure not to leave any stone unturned.  It’s not a failure if you learn from it.  Have the physical, emotional and mental resilience and robustness to bounce back and ask where and why you went wrong.  [29:36] Dealing with Failure You can prepare everything and still fail. There are things you can’t control. Be adaptable and flexible in your performance. During difficult times, the strength of Laura’s team was able to support a struggling individual. Different perspectives help you see things you can and cannot control. It can prevent you from being ill or injured. [34:42] Team Dynamics Compared to individual sports, being in a team is difficult.  Expeditions bring out the best and worst in people. You won’t know unless you are in the situation.  Laura wanted her team to be cohesive and transparent. She always confronts an issue and steps forward to speak about it.  A performance psychologist helped them understand the differences in each other's personalities, which helped make their journey a success. [44:05] Keeping Mindfulness in Moments of Struggle Leveraging each member’s strengths and differences can end up holding the team together rather than pulling it apart. When you are struggling, you may show a part of yourself that is cynical and selfish.  Remember: we are all working on our character.  In extreme circumstances, the bad side of ourselves could come out. Dealing with it is part of resilience and teamwork.   7 Powerful Quotes ‘There's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive’ they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up’. ‘How can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up? And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up [and] we've only got one option’. ‘It's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance’. ‘It is not a failure unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be’. ‘You kind of just got to crack on and then there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific’. ‘You've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible’. ‘The girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. I just had to put myself in the barrier first. I be like, “Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out”’.   About Laura Laura Penhaul is one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and the Paralympics.  Laura is known for her nine-month, 9000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat. She managed a team of four women known as the Coxless Crew; she was the expedition's team leader and organiser. The expedition is featured in a documentary called Losing Sight of Shore. Connect with Laura through Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn.   Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, be sure to subscribe and share it with your friends! Post a review and share it! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review. You can also share this with your family and friends so they can learn more about stories of strength and mental resilience. Have any questions? You can contact me through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts. To pushing the limits, Lisa    Full Transcript Of The Podcast!  Welcome to Pushing the Limits, the show that helps you reach your full potential with your host Lisa Tamati, brought to you by lisatamati.com. Lisa Tamati: Hi everyone, and welcome back to Pushing the Limits once again. Today, I have another world-leading, actually world-record-holding, superwoman. Now, this lady is Laura Penhaul from England, and Laura is one of the world's most respected physiotherapists. She helps train many of the top athletes in Olympic sailing and in Paralympics with people with disabilities. She's done an awful lot in high-performance sport. But what Laura is really known for is that Laura did a 9,000-mile crossing of the Pacific in a rowboat, you heard that right. Right across the Pacific. Nine months it took and she was the team leader and organiser of this whole expedition. She got four women together to do this epic event. And there is a documentary out called Losing Sight of Shore. And today we discuss this mammoth expedition that Laura undertook. The funny thing is that Laura hadn't even been a rower before she took this on. But because she had worked so much with high-performance athletes, people pushing the limits of endurance, and people with disabilities doing crazy things. She wanted to understand what is it that makes some people so resilient and strong, and other ones want to give up when they're faced with a trauma. And she thought, 'I don't need to wait until something drastic happens in my life, and my health has taken off me or my mobility, or I have an accident or I have something to wake up. I can actually take on some mammoth task so that I can start to understand what it actually takes and what resilience and strength is all about'. And she felt like she didn't have the right to be leading and guiding other people if she didn't have that experience herself. So she set off on a mission, what she thought would take them a year to do for a status to organise this expedition across the Pacific. And they knew that taking it four years of preparation, we go into the, all the details of putting together such a high-performance team, it's a fantastic interview. She really is a superwoman. I'm in awe over here, I can't imagine being in a 29-foot boat for anything more than about two hours, I reckon, before I'd start going nuts, so she's pretty impressive, this lady. And before we head over to the show, just want to remind you, we've launched now, our patron program for the podcast. So if you want to become a premium member of our podcast tribe, if you like, we'd love you to come and join us here on over to patron.lisatamati.com. And we'd love to see you over, the, it's all about keeping the show going. We've been doing it now for five and a half years each and every episode takes me a long time to put together to chase these world-leading experts, to do the research that I need to do, especially when it's dealing with scientific topics, and a test takes an awful amount of time. And to keep it going we need your help. And we wanted to give you lots of benefits too so people who do get in behind the podcast and help us provide this super valuable content to everybody get a whole lot of exclusive member benefits. So we'd love you to check it out. Go to patron.lisatamati.com for more information on that. And on that note before we just hit over to Laura, I just want to remind you about my new longevity and anti-ageing supplement NMN Nicotinamide Mononucleotide. You would have heard a couple of times in the podcast I had Dr Elena Seranova and we're going to have her on more often. She's a molecular biologist and tells us all about the ways that we can help with anti-ageing. And one of those things is by taking Nicotinamide Mononucleotide, which is a very, very powerful supplement. It's an NAD precursor that helps up-regulate the sirtuin genes, helps provide a bigger pool of NAD to every cell in the body and helps on a very, very deep level. The ageing working against the ageing process and who doesn't want to know about them if you want to find out all about it and all the science behind it, please go to nmnbio.nz. Right, now over to the show with Laura Penhaul. Lisa: Well, hi everyone, and welcome to Pushing the Limits. Today I'm super excited. I have an amazing, amazing guest for you. I really do find the most incredible people and this lady is a superwoman. So welcome to the show. It's really, really nice to have you Laura. Laura Penhaul is sitting in Cornwall in England. Laura, how's your day going? Well, you're not going. Laura Penhaul: Oh I was gonna say yeah no, it's been great. Do it. Yeah, it's now eight o'clock in the evening. So yeah, no, it's all good. It's been a beautiful sunny day. Lisa: Oh lovely, lovely. So Laura is an amazing person who does expeditions and as a physio, Laura, can you give us a little bit of background? I want you to tell your story in your words, give us a bit of a synopsis about what you do and what the critical things. I mean I've done a bit in the intro so, but I really want your words, if you like. Laura: Yeah, no props well, firstly, yes. Thanks, Lisa for having me on the show. It's been an honour because I think you're a superwoman more than me. Lisa: Hell no. Laura: But no I mean yeah, my background is I worked in elite sport, in Olympic and Paralympic sport for over 14 years. Sort of went to Vancouver, London, Rio, Tokyo cycles. And yeah during that kind of journey, and that was as lead physio in different sports, whether that was downhill skiing, whether it was with British Athletics Paralympic team. And more recently, I was with the British sailing team. And during that sort of journey as a physio like, the role that we have, as physios, physical therapists are very much kind of, you know, you're seeing somebody through a journey. And like when I worked with them and we've worked with patients in trauma, worked versus kind of, you know, in spinal cord injuries, and then straight to Paralympic sport, I've been surrounded by people that have been faced with significant adversity. And it's sort of, it's always along my journey of my career, have I been fascinated by understanding the person in front of me and kind of going, there's usually two types of people when they've been thrown a massive curveball, like an RTA or road traffic accident, or something horrendous, that is completely changed their life for the rest of their life. Those two, there's people that can go through the same type of thing. And yet one person wakes up, being so thankful that they're alive, they're now going to make the most of life. And then somebody else that wakes up and they're like, they wish they didn't wake up. And as a physio dealing with those two people, you've got to have a very different approach. And in the, kind of—to me, understanding that person that wants to give up and actually being able to change their mindset and facilitate, go shoulder to shoulder with them is really powerful. And then those people that do wake up and want to thrive, like they're the ones that have inspired me to do more stuff, because I'm like, why do we wait for adversity? Why do we wait for something to be a curveball before we then, like, start to go, ‘Oh, my God, I need to make the most of life like I’m fit. And I'm healthy. I need to make the most of life because clearly stuff could happen in an hour’s time. Lisa: At any time. Laura: Exactly. So that's kind of what then drove me to start to do more and more personally, and kind of a bit of exploratory expedition space. And then the real, so that led me to ride the Pacific Ocean, which is kind of you know what, we're talking about. Lisa: You said it again, you just rode the Pacific Ocean is, I just dropped it as a, to yeah, and then I rode the Pacific Ocean. So you were into sailing and into rowing and into all of that sport, as prior, this was your thing? Laura: No. Well, that's the thing, no wasn't in all honesty. I was, I'm kind of a jack of all trades like I love anybody, any athletes, anybody that I work with, I want to understand them. And I want to understand the sport, the environment that they're in. So when I was working with skiers, I went off and did a ski season. I learned to ski when I, and I'm somebody that, yeah, I love to do different sports and outdoors, the sort of outdoor environments. And if I was working with marathon runners, I was like, I can't fully treat them if I don't understand, if I haven't run a marathon like, to me, I need to experience what they've experienced, even in a small way to kind of get a glimpse of the environment. So I would run a marathon, same with triathletes, and, you know, not to the extent of your, sort of did a half Ironman, and then the point was the Paralympic cohort when I was working with them. I was like, this is an area that I can't untap you know, yeah. Lisa: Yeah. Laura: I can do it, but I can't understand what it is to be a Paralympian. Lisa: Yep. Laura: However, how can I put myself in a situation which is completely unknown, that's kind of gonna make me want to give up. And I want to understand what it is we draw on when we can't give up you know, we've only got one option. Lisa: Yep. Laura: So I kind of, that's what I was searching for, for a couple of years of searching for something that was going to be out of my comfort zone completely and was going to be a challenge on multiple levels. Lisa: Sure must have been. Laura: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I guess at the time, I was doing, sort of, triathlons. I was enjoying them. But anything that was cycling, running, swimming, I felt like this would be expected and I kind of would already be a bit familiar with it. So when I suddenly heard about ocean rowing, I was like, ‘Oh my god, this is ideal'. I've always wanted to row but never did it. Then never got a chance to, so I'd never rode before. I've never lost sight of shore. Like, you know, I've never been out at sea properly, never sailed or any of that stuff. Well, a bar like going on a few trips. But yeah, not a sailor by anyway, shape or form.  So it was, I was, and that just connected, you know, when something, an opportunity comes up and you're like, ‘This is exactly what I've been looking for'. And it was a proper light bulb moment. And the thing for me, it's the one time in my whole life that I've been so focused, like, ‘I have to make this happen'. Because I know, in my heart of hearts, I know what I'm going to get out of this is going to be huge. Lisa: Wow. Laura: And that basically is why starting point with it, it was kind of, I didn't know how to row, I went from being a marathon weight of like, something stupid, like 58 kilos up to, I had to go up to 72 kilos to grow on mass, you know, to be not skinny, because we lose a lot of weight out there. I had to put a team together, whereas, in my personal sport, I was doing quite individual sports. So, you know, I had to work out the team cohesion, the whole team dynamics, and recruitment. I had to figure out what the boat was, get it built, like then set up this as a business, you know, so. So yeah, so the whole journey it was, I mean, now on reflection, there's so many learnings from it. But I absolutely thrive from the self-awareness piece, how much I've learned about myself, and the different perspectives. And you know, approaching that row, my approach is very much like, this is all brand spanking new. So if I can approach it with a blank canvas, if I can have a real adaptive mindset, and if I surround, if I've now gone on the other side of the table, rather than surrounding athletes, if I surround myself with the relevant expertise, how far can I get? And how far can I really experience that athlete? Lisa: Yeah, sorry, just my brother's just come in the middle of the podcast it’s all right. There. Come on Mitch, get around the other side. Yeah, this is podcast life for you. Didn't tell your brother you’re recording. There was so much here that I wanted to unpack. Because there was like, you just skipped over a ton of stuff. Number one, you had no idea. So what gave you the confidence, what was the little voice inside you saying, ‘I can do this’, when you're in a completely unknown sport? Like what was it that made you think, ‘Oh, yeah, I can ride across the Pacific on a row across the Pacific, you know, for nine months, and that all worked out well'. You know, how did you even come up with a concept for something so audacious? Laura: Well, I mean, it's all about small pieces, isn't it, and kind of reaching out to those that have done stuff and those that you respect and have the expertise. So it was basically breaking it, breaking the journey down. First of all, one is that route even possible? So initially, somebody had asked me to be part of the Indian Ocean, and they were putting a team together and then I evolved it into the Pacific. And then somebody, I was like, well, actually, originally, it might have been the new ocean wave race, which just goes from San Fran to Hawaii. And I was like, well, that's not the Pacific. That's a third of it, like so if I'm going to say I'm going to row the Pacific. I want to row, can I row all of it? Yeah. So it was then reaching out to somebody from a logistical point of view and a support structure point of view saying, ‘Is this even feasible? And what would it look like?’ And when they said, 'Yes'. I was like, right, okay. So that's route can get involved, this is what it's going to look like. We're going to need to start, we're going to need to replenish, but it's doable. But it's going to take this time frame. And then it was kind of like right, in order for me to get prepped and the team to get prepped, what's the time frame that it's going to take to do that? Let's be realistic. And I wasn't realistic. I was naive, I thought it would only take us about a year to get to the start line. And hell no. It took four years to get to start, like four years. Lisa: Four years. That’s massive. Laura: Yeah, so it was. But interestingly, there's so many parallels, you know, like working in Olympic sport, everything's in four-year cycles for the Olympic cycle. And so there's so much that I learned through that process of, I thought I was only going to go in a year's time. That didn't happen. We didn't have the funding. I didn't got the team, the boat wasn't finished, you know, it was like, right, I need to go again. I need to reset. I need to sort of keep the ball rolling. But I need to learn from what failures have had here. And how do I overcome them? Lisa: Wow. Laura: The second year, I didn’t quite have to win I thought it was but it's all that sort of stuff. You go, yeah, you can give up why it's such a clear vision with it. And the question in my head was, ‘There's going to be an all-female team that is going to do this at some point. Like, why can't it be me? And I'm sure that will happen in my lifetime'. So what am I missing? What are the things that I can't see? That's in my blind spots. And that's where I started to reach out, to pull in different people to say, right, ‘This is the problem I've got, how can you help me’? How can you see and it was that reaching out for help with the right expertise that got us to the start line? It wasn't me. It was the collective bigger support team around us. Lisa: How did you even, like the resources and the money in the financial and the sponsorship, when you didn't have a—I mean, you had a backstory as a high-performance expert, and helping other people in training and so on. But, you know you didn't have, you weren't—there were no huge amount of resources behind you. How did you—I know what I had to go through to get to the races that I did. And that was probably a heck of a lot less than what you had to go through. How did you face that? And what did you learn on the business side of the journey, the marketing, all of that sort of stuff? Laura: Yeah, I mean– Lisa: Selling the idea to people. Laura: Yeah, the money. It kind of—it’s exactly that. I think it's showing the belief, like the absolute dogged determinedness, that this is going to happen, and you know, like, I put in my own swag to it. I paid for the boat built in the first place. So I'm like, I'm gonna do this, like, do you want to be part of it or not? But I want to do this regardless. Yeah. Lisa: So basically, how I did too. Laura: This is not my approach. But you know, I mean, I say that, but let's face it, I was useless at kind of asking for money, like, you know, it's great, you're doing it for charities. But to ask to support me, and like our journey. I was crap. You know, I'm a physio, I like to help people. I don't like asking for help. You know, at the time, I was very much in that poor sort of leadership style. And that's a big, that was a big learning point. But then reaching out to people that do work in business and do work in sponsorship. And they were the people that then helped me to shape sort of your sponsorship deck and how you need to brand it, what's your, you know, the colours, the language, all of that type of stuff. Lisa: Wow. Laura: And I loved it because I mean, I love learning. So suddenly, I was entering a snippet of a different world that I knew nothing about previously. Same with like the PR side of it, I had no idea but that was great fun, and, and the business model itself, like yeah became a business and I thought it was all about the physical and that was totally not it was 10% of like the project. And then yeah, so like you say, setting up a business no Scooby-Doo about and so simplicity was reaching out to people that had been successful had done it before. And the likes of, you know, Mark Beaumont, that we've talked about before like Mark. Mark is somebody that's an elite athlete, expedition athlete, he'd actually at the time rode the Atlantic, and unfortunately, they nearly died at sea. So I'd reached out to him to learn from his experiences from the actual failures, more, I don't want necessarily the successes, but, and he then was great at providing me with a bit more of the structure for you know, the timeline, the budget that this, that in the other room. Lisa: Wow. Laura: How you sort of need to get the sponsorship. And yeah, so I think to me, it's about as you know, if you hold, if this is a new space and you hold an ego thinking you're going to, then you're never gonna get anywhere. Lisa: You’re gonna get your ass kicked. Laura: Yeah, basically, just whereas for me, yeah, well, I don't mind. I don't mind saying I don't know something. I'm happy to ask why and how and who can help… Lisa: You can be very humble, we can tell that five minutes of talking to you, you know. Laura: Thank you very much. Lisa: And how did you get a team together? Because you get four ladies, you rode the Pacific and people were talking like nine months and a rowboat unsupported, like from California to Cairns, wasn’t it? It's great. Yeah. There's a documentary out on it. If people want to find out we'll work out with it with the link sir. And how they can get hold of it perhaps afterwards. Four ladies in a rowboat, rowing across the lake. I mean, to the average person who doesn't know anything about rowing? It sounds absolutely insane. And I, like, I said to my husband, I was interviewing this morning and I said I couldn't last 24 hours in a rowboat. I probably couldn't last four hours in a rowboat. How do you comprehend nine months like that for me? Is, I mean, I've never done anything on that scale, of that long. You know, like, the longest thing I ever did was run through New Zealand which was a sustained effort over 42 days. And that well nearly bloody killed me, you know. But that's not nine months, you know, little logistics and all that. Wow. Laura: Yeah, but you know what, I've been, flipping heck, you know. 40 odd days that you're running the lengths of New Zealand, like that is insane. So you could have... Lisa: That’s a hell lot easier than rowing. Laura: It’s not though! I mean, it's all about perspective, isn't it? And it's all about the context that you're in. And this is the thing that I get really passionate about is, I want to optimise people's own elite performance, like, not comparative to anybody else, like, what's your—so what you're really is your achievement of like, 42 days and everything else you've achieved is huge. Whereas somebody else's 42 days of running, will be running a marathon like that will be—it's about that gap analysis, like, where you'd got yourself to, to then be able to take on the 42-day sort of challenge. Like that was a big old leap, but you're already like, sort of—your experiences, and you'd prepped yourself for that. Lisa: Yes, years and years. Laura: Yeah, and where is somebody who's on a couch, but then is setting their sights of running a marathon. That's their 42 days, like, that's their elite performance for them. And the row for us? Yeah, it was a big old leap, but it was fundamentally, it was broken down. Like I think sometimes you must have found this with the run, you're talking about there and everything else. You've got to break it down, like you certainly in the preparation phase, you've got to plan every inch and every sort of crook of it within its life so that you don't leave any stone left unturned. You feel like you're best prepared, that gives you confidence, to then have capacity to deal with the unknown when you're faced with it. So to me, that sort of, I always wanted to leave, like, at least 30% of capacity in my headspace to make sure I can react to when I need to. Lisa: You can handle it. Laura: Exactly, and deal with the unknown. If I mean, if we'd gone on that row in that first year, Jesus Christ, like most of it was unknown, like that. I was so naive, it was ridiculous. But by the time you know, it's four years down the line, I felt so confident in actually we've trialed the boat, we've done 72 hours, we've done a couple of weeks. We've done team testing, we've done routines, we've done steep depot, we've done the training, we've done the site support, you know, all of those, every aspect of it. I feel like we took out and then it was a case of right, well, then we just need to do this on a day and day out. And then however long that's gonna last for it's just sticking to routines, which you know, the same in whatever you do. Lisa: The more you do the more it becomes normal. Laura: Exactly. And then it's kind of like, Well, actually, once you lose sight of shore, whether you're out there for five days, five weeks, five months, actually doesn't make much difference. Lisa: You’re in this shit anyway. Too far from home anyway, you've lost sight of shore! Laura: Yeah, you kind of just got to crack on and then, you know, there's no going back, you can't row backwards, sort of, it's only about, you know, having the confidence to step into taking on the Pacific. And for us, you know, yes, we rowed the Pacific literally, but to me, it was the essence of everybody's got their own Pacifics to cross like... Lisa: Yes.  Laura: ...our film’s called Losing Sight of Shore because it's about having the courage to lose sight of shore, like, have that sort of courage to just step away from the comfort, step away from the knowns. And like, Oh, my God, you know, that's where life just opens up and expose. Lisa: Because you know, I had Paul Taylor, who's a neuroscientist, and ex-British Navy guy, and exercise physiologist on the show last week, and he's talking about the small bubble where you can live in or the big bubble. And the big bubble is where we all want to be, you know, where we’re reaching our potential and we are filling and where are all these amazing things that we could do. We know that that bubble was there. But we're all scared living in this little comfort zone. And how do you push outside because that outside is risk of failure, and in your case risk of dying. You know, there was so much that you put on the line physically, mentally, financially, emotionally, relationships, you know. You name it, you put it on the line for this one thing, and that is living in that big bubble and scaring the crap out of yourself and doing it anyway. Most people have this tendency to want to be comfortable in and I see this as a massive problem in our society today is that we are all cozy and comfortable and sitting on the couch watching Netflix and we are warm and we don't push ourselves for the gloom we don't push yourself. And this leads to disaster when it comes to resilience and being able to cope because you're been through this amazing adventure and expedition and you've risked everything, you must have an inner confidence that is just—and I know that you won't have it in all areas of life because this is certainly specific. And I know how that works because I'm really good and some things and really crap in others and I'm still working on my mindset in this area and that area or whatever, we're work in progress but you when you've lifted up your horizons to that big, nothing must daunt you in a way. Like he must be like, ‘Okay, whatever is coming at me, I can probably handle it'. Because you know, inside you have that resilience, which is so important. Laura: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. It's about context, isn't it? Like I—you know, I'm a risk-taker, but I'm a really calculated risk-taker, right. Lisa: Yeah. Laura: Exactly. So kind of the Pacific seems like it's ridiculous, and it's life threatening. I mean, I didn't leave any stone left unturned. I had military guys helping us to make sure we'd sort of not left stuff unturned. We went through survival practice. We, I mean, there was everything and the amount of sort of, you know, routines we had on the boat, leashes, and kind of safety equipment was next to none. Because I was like, the risk we've got is getting separated from the boat. So I'm risk-aware, really risk-aware. And, and kind of, and make sure that sort of don't leave any stone unturned so then I feel confident to go forwards. I wouldn't just leap into it like blindly. Lisa: Yep, you shouldn’t. Laura: Yeah exactly. Lisa: Because you will die. Laura: Yeah. But I mean, it's no different if you watch, I don't think like, you know, you watch Alex Honnold, climbing free solo, you know, the El Cap, sort of the climb, if anybody’s seen that film. I mean, it's phenomenal. And anybody would, you know, you watch it. You're like, ‘Oh, my God, that's insane. He’s free climbing that like, what if he just slipped’? What if this? What if that? But look at his meticulous approach to it. Lisa: Yeah, one hand wrong. Laura: Exactly. But then his meticulous approach, he hasn't just woken up that day one, right. So I'm going to climb up, you know, sort of freestyle at this thing. He's like, he's been off top-roping with it, he is kind of lead climbed it. He's, kind of, known every single holding place he's written it, he’s drawn it, he’s visualising it. And he's only done it when he feels completely ready, prepped. And that actually, there's no move in that that is going to be a risk. So, therefore, he's a calculated risk-taker. And it is extreme when you watch it, but the preparedness is totally there. Lisa: I couldn't do it. I didn't put the parachute on as I'm halfway down. You know, you do learn from that, you know. I remember going out into the race in Niger, which was 353Ks across one of the most dangerous landscapes in you know, places on Earth, countries on Earth. And we were meant to have food come from France, and it didn't arrive. And I wasn't prepared. I didn't have my own stash, I didn't, my husband at the time, my ex-husband there. He did, you know, like, and when you're doing things like that, and you end up with food poisoning, and you're, you know, vomiting and shitting your way across the Sahara. And you realise, you know, you could have avoided that. That’s sort of a big lesson and do your preparation better, you know. Don't be so cavalier with your, ‘I am going to go and, you know, run 100 miles, and I haven't even trained for a marathon yet'. No, no, you know, and I had to learn those things the hard way because I had a tendency just to dive in. And this is all exciting. And let's do it. Laura: But then you learned that didn’t you? Lisa: Yeah, but it's not a good way to learn in the middle of the Sahara. It’s better to learn previously. Laura: Yeah, that is sure. But yeah, I mean, you still but you learn and I think that's one of the biggest takeaways, of whenever we talk about failure and stuff. It is not a failure, if you, unless you don’t learn from it. And leaping sometimes is exactly what you need to do, and it's just not being scared to fall, like just knowing that, you know what, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It's got you one step further. And one step closer to finding what the next thing might be. Lisa: Yeah. Laura: So yeah, just it's having that like you say, that the sort of the robustness, the resilience or whatever it is to bounce back to kind of jump back up to ask the questions. ‘Well, why didn't that work? And let's try it a different way', or learn from it and do something. Lisa: Yeah, like you said, You reached out to Mark and he'd had, you know, nearly died and had actually failed in that particular expedition, done lots of other crazy stuff, but you know, and that one and it is those things like you are risking failure and you have to understand it from the outset. That you can take care of all the things you can prepare. You can get everything and you're still risking because, if this was easy, everyone would be doing it. And you have to be okay with the—this is something I try and get my athletes to understand. When you're actually done the work, you've done the boulder, you've done the—all the hard stuff that you knew now standing at the start line, that's actually to have time to celebrate and go, you know, ‘I've done the hard work. Now it's up to whatever's going to come my way'. And like you say, being able to adapt and to have the flexibility to take whatever's coming at you, which isn't always easy, but you have to sort of give up those—I think the consequences of what if, what if, what if, because if you’re constantly asking yourself, for ‘What if I don't make that time?’ You know, say you're running a marathon, or I want to do it in under three and a half hours, or whatever the case may be, and then you're so like, ‘Oh, no’, and then it takes you three hours and thirty-two and you know, ‘I'm a failure’, you know, like, hang on a minute, no, hang on. That's not how it works. Laura: Yeah. Lisa: Yeah, you've got to understand that there are things you can't control. So you've done everything you can control. And now the rest is up to the gods, basically. And you're going to have to be able to be adaptable and flexible. And that was one of the things in your website, talking about adaptive, being adaptive in your performance. And I think that's a really good thing because we cannot control like… You can be having a bad day at the office and get up and you feel sick and your immune system’s down and you've got your period and you've, you know, whatever the case may be. And you weren't bargaining with that, you know, so you have to be able to work, ‘I need to still go because there's no way back. How do I deal with it’? You know? Laura: Yeah, and I think it's a really valid point. Because I mean, even in the row halfway through, and it's in the films, it's not kind of confidential stuff. One of the girls, like, she just completely changed her personality, right, because that was exactly the problem. She thought she could control the boat. She thought, you know, she was a rower. Out of all of us, she was somebody that actually had rowed since she was a kid and stuff. She thought ocean rowing was, you know. She didn't want to lose the passion. Unfortunately, yeah, it killed her passion. She didn't know then, she lost the sense of identity, all of that stuff. Lisa: Oh yeah, real tough. Laura: Yeah, awful. And, but because she was trying to control the boat, you know, like, the current, the wind was against us, like, those are things you cannot control. It’s a one ton boat, not one person is going to be able to control moving that in the direction you want it to go in. And so, but it was the collective of the team that enabled us to be able to rally around and understand, first of all, recognise the change in personality, it was a behaviour, it was yeah, there was something underlying. It was not her—well, it was, but there was something emotional that she couldn't verbalise straightaway. So hence, she just changed her personality type. Lisa: Wow. Laura: And then it was like the strength of the team to be able to rally together to support that. So kind of come at it from the right approach that she was able to share it, to then collectively go, we just need to see a different perspective on this stuff. And I think that's where, you know, a vast dynamic sort of team, you know, a diverse team sorry is what I meant, has got so much strength in it, because you know, what, when you see it through your own lens, there's only sort of one way. Whereas if you've got some diversity there, I just think it brings a different perspective. And suddenly, you're able to see, you can't control the uncontrollable, you know, you can only control the controllables. You can't control what's out of control. And those things are the weather that is, you know, yes will prevent being ill or injured. But that might well happen. That, you know, is what it is. And if the boat sort of fails, but you whatever, then those are only three things that are going to be out of our control. And if anything happened there, then I wouldn't be. I would have been upset, I would be upset, but I wouldn't be throwing my toys out the pram because it isn't something we could control. And if the row didn't happen, we didn't finish because one of those three things, that is what it is. Lisa: Yeah, it is what it is. And you've done your utmost. And I mean, I've failed on different expeditions and things that I’ve done, like really fallen on my face, you know, with, you know, documentary crews there have captured all on film as you just absolutely completely faceplant. And, you know, and it takes a long time to get up again, and it knocks the crap out of you. And, you know, but it's part of that, okay, well, this is the game wherein, you know, we’re pushing the limits, and sometimes, you know, you are human and you don't have the resources or one of the things that I find really, really I'd love to and I think this probably needs its own podcast is the whole team dynamic thing. I mean, it's one thing to be a solo athlete that does things, you know, but it's a—couple of times when I've had to be in a team situation. I find it really, really tough because you were reliant... I did one in the Himalayas, and we're trying to do the world's highest marathon ever done. And I was with a guy who was a mountaineer and used to altitude and very at home in that space. And I wasn't. And I don't—I've done a couple of things at altitude and sort of survive by the skin of my teeth. I'm an asthamtic and I don't really do well on the mountains. So take on, you know, the world's highest mountain. Good idea. And we'd be in shape. And I got sick. I got altitude sickness, and I couldn't even start my body. I couldn't even tie my shoelaces.  But the worst thing was that he changed. The person that he was down here was not the person that he was up there, and, it ended up being quite nasty, and quite, detrimental. And he's not here to defend himself. So I'm not gonna say anything too much. But it wasn't a nice situation to be in — I did not trust that if I was in the shutout there, that we would work together as a team to get through it. I felt like, now, he wouldn't do that.  And then so now I'm like, very, very always aware of if I'm teaming up with people like we've got at the moment, this weekend in my hometown, that Oxfam 100, it's 100-kilometre event where lots of just normal everyday people are doing 100Ks, which is like amazing, walking, and they're doing it in, you know, teams of four, and the staff are going to go through... And there'll be people that are, you know, expeditions bring out the worst and bring out the best in people. And you don't know until you're in the situation with them, which way are they going to go, and which way you're going to go. I mean, I can become, I've been a really horrible person on some of my, you know, with my crew on different occasions where I've just lost my shit because I'm in so much pain, sleep deprivation, motions are up the wazoo. And you just, you know, you're snappy, irritable, you know, just horrible. Afterwards, I’m heading to go and say, ‘I'm very sorry'. You know? So how did you deal with that over nine months like that on steroids? Like the dynamic—four women—everybody's having their highs and lows at different points in there. How did you cope with that? I mean, you're obviously,  you've mentioned the one person and how you helped pull together, it takes incredible leadership to keep a team like that together for nine months, no matter how wonderful you all are. Laura: Yeah, that I mean, don't get me wrong, you still have arguments and stuff, but it was all in the preparation. And it was, we knew I mean, so it is a 29th version rowing boat, right. So it's kind of the size of Greg Rutherford's, it's got the world record for the long jump, right? So it is, kind of, his long jump is the size of our boat. So it's a really small space. And then when you're cramped into the cabin, there's two of you. And if it's stormy, then all four of you are either in that or two in each cabin. So it's a tight, confined space. So it was really clear from the outset that this team had to be, we had to be cohesive, we had to be really transparent. And something I was particularly pedantic about was, I never want to leave a permanent issue. Like if there's an issue, we need to confront it, we will have to step forward into it. We can't, I don't want any bitchiness like, there was, that was always been, sort of my approach to most things. Like, I can't stand the whole talking to other people, rather than talking to the individual that you've got an issue with. You just need to step into that as much as it might feel uncomfortable. And I guess, working in a performance context, we're scrutinised on a daily basis, you know. We're kind of everybody's asking you why what are you doing, you know, type stuff, you've got to justify, you feel like you're under a spotlight all the time. So you start to feel this kind of separation, you know, look kind of right. No, this is they're asking me that because of the person in front of us or the, you know, the end goal, that's what it's about. It's got nothing to do with me personally. We're just trying to optimise what we need to do. So when, my, I pulled this, the sort of the team came together, a lot of it, I was like, how do we stress test this, like, we have to stress test it because– Lisa: Hell yeah. Laura: –exactly. And that's where I, you know, I started working with Keith, the performance psychologist. I reached out to him so I was like, there's got to be more depth to this, you know, we need tools we need to I need to know what I'm going to draw on when I'm wanting to give up like, what's going to be my go-to’s, I'm going to, I need to know how I can respond and react to different personalities and stuff and how they're going to react to each other. So Keith was the absolute rock to the success of our journey, in all honesty. I worked with him for four years and I still worked with him. I still work with him, sorry, to this day. And Keith, sort o—he enabled us to sort of understand the differences in our personalities from the basics of just doing psychometrics and stuff, but pretty in-depth ones. And then analyzing that a little bit more and playing it out in different scenarios, and then really forcing us to kind of do the round table. Yeah, because—and the girls hated confrontation. They weren't used to giving and receiving feedback. That was always felt like a personal threat. Yeah. So I just had to put myself in the barrier first. So I be like, ‘Right, cool, okay, if you're not going to give it and you're going to say everything's rosy when it's not, I’ll pull it out'. ‘So this is what's not going so well. And this is not going so well. Right now give it back to me, hit me’, like because then as soon as I've given it they're happy to give it back to me because I think I'm being—yeah exactly. That's fine. And then I would show them that I was learning from it because I was. And there was— I— they would call me, I would have Laura number one, Laura number two, my personalities. And they—I didn't realise that until sort of, you know, going through the row and they're like, ‘Oh my god, it's Laura number two'. And Laura number two is somebody that when she starts getting, like, tired, hungry, all of that gubbins and, and sort of just a bit over it, I start getting really assertive. I'm very tunnel vision, and my empathy just goes. Whereas normal time, like I've got heaps of the empathy, until it gets to a point… Lisa: Yeah, yeah. So like me. Laura: And so they’d be like, all right, Laura number two. Because we then had a language that was a little bit disconnected to the personal and it made a bit of fun of it, then we sort of were able to sort of take a pause, hear it and stuff. But we had loads of loads of methodologies that we built, we'd worked on to try and get to that point. And that was sort of to the point with there, though, is that is not to say we didn't have any arguments, because we did like, I mean Nat and I, in particular, completely different personalities. She is like a, she's a beautiful character. She is Miss Mindful, she is in the moment, and she is just totally there. She's talking about the sky and the sea and the colours. Whereas I'm Miss Planner. Like I'm already in Cannes, I'm thinking about fear, I’m planning, and what do we need to do, what do we need to sort out? So, you know, when we did the team testing before, this was during selection of the team. I remember when I met Nat, I was like, ‘Oh, god, no, we are poles apart. There's just no way', you know because I was trying to see it through. I was only seeing it through my own lens of who I was getting a rapport with. But I brought her onto the team testing weekend, which was, I'd gone to some ex-military guys. And I said, ‘Look, we need to be tested. I need to see what we're like when we're cold, we’re hungry, really sore, in pain. You need to physically push us. You need to mentally push us'. Well. And so we did like a 72-hour sleep depot type thing, you know, in the Brackens in Wales, yeah. On reflection that was like, yeah, that was it was great fun and obviously hated it during. I remember, like during it, sort of Nat in particular, as a personality that stood miles out because when she came on to it, I was thinking oh she can come along. But she's, I don't think that I’m going to be selecting her. And then Nat was the one that, you know, she might not have been the fittest. But even when she was struggling, and she was in pain, she had a sense of humour. When I was starting to struggle, she made me laugh. And I was like, ‘Oh my god, there's not many people that can do that while I'm in that space'. Lisa: Yeah. Laura:  And I'm like, this isn't just about me. But for the comfort of the team, like we need that. Because otherwise, I will make this too serious. I will. When it gets into it, it will be too boring and serious. I need a sense of humour in this. And she is, she's got it in abundance. And she kept us at the moment. Lisa: Wow, yep. Laura: As well. Like, I needed that mindfulness when we're out to sea because otherwise, I wouldn't have remembered half the things that went on and I wouldn't have recognised and seen it. Lisa: Isn't that amazing? So looking at the strengths and differences can actually end up being the thing that holds you together rather than pulls you apart. Laura: A hundred percent. Lisa: And I just think in this space I have to connect you with Paul Taylor, he will love you. He's a resilience expert that I was mentioning before and yeah, I think it when you have characters and I've started to do this just with for myself even now I have these different characters, you know, there's the good me and there's bad me and the good means like Wonder Woman, she can do anything and she's amazing.  And he has all these character traits that you know I aspire to and want to have and that side of me and then the other side's a real bitch, you know, she's a horrible, cynical, selfish person and those are both of me. And I know when you put this on—Paul talks about doing like cartoon characters and putting speech bubbles on them and actually giving them life and because it puts you outside of these characters that are fighting in your head, and you're trying to be that good one you want to be, but when you're hungry and cold and freezing, and you haven't slept in three days, and you're struggling somewhere, and God knows where. And you just want to go home and cry and hide under the covers and get mummy to give you a chicken soup. Well, you—it puts it outside of you, and it helps you see what you're doing.  And even in daily things like, you know, I've been rehabilitating my mum now for five years, seven days a week. And you know, beginning first three years, it was like eight hours a day. So it was just, it was full, full-on. And then even longer than that in the first year. And I catch myself sometimes being so short and irritable because I'm like trying to multitask and trying to run my businesses and she's waiting for me and you know, like, you just find yourself snapping at somebody when you just feel like, you know, that asshole is sure is present, you know, and you're just like listening to yourself going, ‘How the hell do I get a grip on this?’ We're all human. And we're all working on this. And, you know, I go to my mum and I put her in bed at night time and a cuddle. And tell her, I say, 'You know, I'm sorry for being a bitch today, Ma. I’m sorry for snapping at you'. And she's so lovely. She's like, 'Oh, that's all right'. Like, you know. But we have moments where we're just not nice, and when you're in these extreme circumstances fad, the ones that come out, and this is a part of the dynamic thing that I find really, really fascinating in that whole resilience and teamwork, and how do you bring it all together? So, you know, we're going to have to wrap up this one, because I've really enjoyed talking to you, Laura. But I really would like to have you on a couple of times, because I think there's much more to this actual story because we haven't even got to talking about well, what was it actually like to row? How did you, you know, do, what did you actually do on a daily basis? And how do you plan for such a thing? And how do you have such a big project and deal with it? And so I'm really glad that we've made this connection, and I'm very, very keen to have you on the show again, if you, because we've really just been part one, I think. Laura: Let's see… No, I’ll be honoured to come back on. There’s so much I think we connect with in, and we can talk about for sure, especially in that headspace how we can be… What we've both learned from the experiences that we faced and continue to learn, I think is always an exciting journey. Lisa: Yeah. Laura: Yeah, I'd be honoured to come back on it. It’s been great. Lisa: That would be fantastic because I think also the work that you've done with Paralympians and, you know, people that have worked with disabilities and trauma, we haven't even unpacked that either. Because I think that, you know, we can learn a heck of a lot from people that have gone through, you know, all these dramas and so on, me, I learn every day from Mum, like, her mindset is just like, incredibly strong, resilient. And so I'd like to unpack some of that stuff as well. So Laura, thank you very much for your time today. I think you're a rock star, where can people find you? And where can they get involved in what you're doing? And, you know, do whatever you got available? Because you've got some really good lessons to share with people. So tell us where we can find you. Laura: Yeah, I mean, on usual social media, sort of, the Instagram or Twitter or LinkedIn, just @laurapenhaul. And that sort of, you know, P-E-N-H-A-U-L is my surname. So yeah, reach out to that we've also got our endurance book. So where we've sort of added science behind, kind of some of the endurance sort of focus is on GCN, which is a Global Cycling Network website, or our podcast is Endurance as well, which is where's Mark Beaumont, which I co-author on. Lisa: So I'm very keen to meet and hopefully get on the show as well. Yeah, hook me up there. Laura: Yeah, Keith will get you on that as well. I think you've got a lot to add and share their experiences for sure. Lisa: I'd love to. That would be an absolute honor. Laura, you're one hell of a strong woman. I can't wait to see where you go and in the future in what you know, what you take on. God forbid is probably going to be big, and thank you for sharing. I think you have such great knowledge to share with people and you have a duty to get that information out there because this is the sort of stuff that helps people. So thank you very much for your time today Laura. That's it this week for Pushing the Limits. Be sure to rate, review, and share with your friends and head over and visit Lisa and her team at lisatamati.com.      

Jolie is joined by Dr. Mary-Jon Ludy, chair of the department of public and allied health and an associate professor of food and nutrition at BGSU, and Dr. Jyothi Thrivikraman, an assistant professor of Global Public Health at Leiden University College in the Netherlands. They discuss their interdisciplinary, international research study of how COVID-19 has impacted the sleep and mental health of college students and offer advice on resiliency in the midst of stress.   Announcer: From Bowling Green State University and the Institute for the Study of Culture & Society, this is BG Ideas. Musical Intro: I'm going to show you this with a wonderful experiment. Jolie : Welcome back to the Big Ideas podcast, a collaboration between the Institute for the Study of Culture & Society and the School of Media and Communication at Bowling Green State University. I'm Jolie Sheffer, Associate -Professor of English and American Culture Studies and the Director of ICS. Due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, we're not recording in the studio, but from home via phone and computer, as always, the opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of BGSU or its employees. Bowling Green State University is located in the Great Black Swamp, long a meeting place for the Wyandot, Huron, Kickapoo, Erie, Miami, and Peoria tribes. We honor the rich history of this land and its indigenous inhabitants, past and present. Jolie: Today, I'm very pleased to be joined by two guests, Dr. Mary-Jon Ludy and Jyothi Thrivikraman. Mary-Jon is department chair of public and allied health and an associate professor of food and nutrition at BGSU. Her research interests include energy balance, body composition, and innovative teaching. Jyothi is an assistant professor of global public health at Leiden University College in the Netherlands. Her research interests include food insecurity, food waste, and healthcare financing. She has worked and taught in countries around the world, including in Asia and Africa. MJ and Jyothi were part of an interdisciplinary, international research team studying how COVID-19 impacted the sleep and mental health of 2000 college students spanning seven countries and three continents. The study's findings and recommendations were first published in an August 2020 special issue of Clocks & Sleep. Thank you both for being with me today. I'm really happy to get to talk to you about your research. To start, could you explain the questions motivating this research and what you learned from your surveys? Mary-Jon: We are looking at the intersections between lifestyle, behaviors, resilience to stress and rumination in college students during the COVID-19 pandemic. So to unpackage that a bit by lifestyle behaviors, we're talking about food intake, alcohol consumption, sleep, physical activity. When we speak about resilience to stress, we're thinking about bounce back or recovery from a stressful situation. And when we think of rumination, we're considering excessive negative thoughts. So with that context, there's been a great deal of research to show that positive lifestyle behaviors, help to bolster mental health and likewise with resilience to stress, if an individual has more resilience to stress that helps to support their mental health. So more resilience, less anxiety, more resilience, more positive mood. The flip is true for rumination. If an individual has more excessive negative thinking, they're likely to have more markers of depression or more perceived stress. There have not been many studies that have looked at that intersection. Mary-Jon: So between lifestyle behaviors, resilience, and rumination, and certainly not in college students during a global pandemic. So that is the focus of our study. And it's a survey, and we have been working, as you said, in the introduction with researchers and a variety of disciplines and a variety of places across the globe. Something that you didn't mention in the introduction. We did our initial research in April and May, but we have done a follow up in October and November. And one of the exciting things I think that we added, we have a new partnership. So we have some partners who are in Ghana. So we have a fourth continent and an eighth country that we're excited to be collaborating with. And I think initially what we have found is that college students are struggling during this pandemic and it doesn't matter where those college students are. Mary-Jon: So the mental health struggles are very real. We're seeing in terms of those lifestyle behaviors that students' dietary quality has decreased, their physical activity has decreased. Their sleep quality has decreased. They're experiencing more stress, less resilience. We have seen perhaps what you would characterize as positive changes in alcohol consumption. So students are drinking less and they're actually spending more time in bed, so more sleep hours, but that hasn't led to better sleep quality. So even though you're staying in bed longer, not sleeping as well, and if we're thinking about the alcohol consumption, a lot of times alcohol consumption comes with group gatherings and folks are doing less of that right now. Jolie: Jyothi, mental health has been on the minds of lots of American parents, faculty members, staff for a long time. How does that compare to where you are at Leiden? Are these patterns similar where the pandemic is exacerbating existing problems, or is the context there a little bit different for sort of what the base point comparison was?  Jyothi: So my college, Leiden University College, is part of Leiden University and we're in the international honors' college of Leiden University. And we draw our population 50% from the Netherlands, but the remaining population comes from countries around the globe. And so for many of our students in the initial lockdown, it was this uncertainty about if their country's locked down. Will they be able to get home? And so there was a fear about, will they be able to go home? And if they go home, will they be able to come back and return to study? But the situation now is slightly different. Most of the students have come back to study, and we are doing a mixture of online and face-to-face classes. And the Netherlands as a whole, for most schooling has opted for face-to-face. So primary and high school students are all face-to-face and college students, we have the option of meeting face-to-face if we want to with reduced numbers, smaller classes, ventilation, and mask wearing, which has just been legalized in the Netherlands.  Jyothi: So our situation is slightly different in terms of that face-to-face interaction, which I do think has helped a lot with the students. In the initial stages, when we had that very, very strict lockdown in March, April and May, it was a challenge. We're not as an institution used to having online education. So we went from a very small, interactive dynamic program to being on Teams and Zoom, which none of us had ever done before. So there was a great deal of transition, uncertainty, uncertain Wi-Fi connection for many families, right? And many students. And I think some of those issues have resolved as time has progressed.  Jyothi: That being said, the students, what they're struggling with now, I would argue is the social aspects. So they're getting the education that they need, but there's the social component of learning that is being missed out on. So we do have a residence building and we do have students living in their dorms, but surprisingly, I was really apprehensive about 400 students moving in from many different countries. I was absolutely confident that we would be ground zero for a COVID outbreak and we've had five or six cases since they've come back. And so that's been amazing, but that has meant that they've been following really strict social distancing guidelines, isolation. So they haven't had the social interaction. And I think now, as the weather gets colder and darker, you can see some of those challenges appearing. We've had beautiful unseasonably warm weather, and now it's cold and dark and it gets dark around four here. So people are fraying at the ends. Jolie: You talked about the way your teaching had to adjust in very short order to online, but I'd like you to talk a little bit about how your research and your data collection methods changed in this time period. And for this project in particular, did you have to do the project differently than you normally would have, or was this kind of similar to the kinds of research each of you had done previously? Mary-Jon: It's really interesting that you ask this. And for a number of years, I've been working with research that involves health patterns in first-year college students. And one of my collaborators, Robin Tucker, is at Michigan State University. And another collaborator, Laura Keaver, is at Institute of Technology Sligo in Ireland. Laura had obtained some grant funding that would have enabled her in April to travel to Michigan State and to BGSU, to help build on our research collaboration. Obviously that didn't happen because of COVID, but one of Robin's graduate students,Chen Du, had recently had a study approved for face-to-face data collection that looked at the intersections of lifestyle, behaviors, resilience, and rumination and college students. So we needed to regroup. Mary-Jon: And Robin and Chen worked together really quickly to reformat this investigation into an online survey. Robin reached out to Laura from Ireland and me at BGSU and said, "Would you like to collaborate on this?" So Laura and I said, "Sure." And we worked quickly to gain approval from our institutional review boards. I posted about the survey to our faculty listserv to get help in recruiting students. And when I did that, almost immediately, I had responses from some colleagues who were interested in getting involved. So Wan Shen is a Chinese faculty member, she is in nutrition. She said, "Could I help you to recruit a Chinese sample of students?" And I said, "Oh, that would be fabulous." Mary-Jon: And HeeSoon Lee, who is a South Korean faculty member in social work, said, "I would love to help you recruit a South Korean population." So both of them jumped on board and then another colleague. His name is Brent Archer, he's a South African colleague, he's in communication sciences and disorders. And he said, "Oh, maybe I can help you recruit a South African population." Well, that didn't work out. However, Brent connected us with Jyothi and her team in the Netherlands, and this just kept growing and growing. And we formed this international team of health focused investigators, but health in a broad sense, multidisciplinary health. And it's been just super exciting to work with and learn from this whole team. Jolie: And Jyothi, what about for you? Was this process in doing sort of everything online and surveys and the sort of international approach, was that in line with previous research you had done, or was this a sort of new mode of work for you as well?  Jyothi: It's a very new mode of data collection for me and tend to be very much more of a participatory action research type of researcher. So I've done a photo voice project where participants in the Hague had to take photos of their food waste. So I do believe in local engagement, right? So this was very new for me in survey data. My strong suit is not quantitative data, so this was a leap for me as well too. But you know, what was nice was to join a project with researchers from different countries and to learn from each other, to understand people's different viewpoints on these topics, to even get feedback on the paper. So we've had one paper submitted and accepted. And so it was nice just to see how other people thought about the different issues and the suggestions they gave. So I think it's an opportunity to learn and MJ, Robin and myself, we've applied for another grant. We weren't successful, but this possibility has opened up other possibilities, which has been lovely. So I welcome future collaborations with this team. Jolie: I'm curious, another question I have is sort of how do you when you're working internationally across multiple disciplines, right? So a general common language of health, but thinking about those questions with different methodologies, different theoretical orientations, all of that, how did you create a common research language for talking across those disciplinary, theoretical, geographical and cultural differences?  Jyothi: Sure. I can actually give an example. We had multiple email exchanges about this. So in the first round of a survey. We didn't collect any race and ethnicity data. And we were talking about that, during the second round, there is race and ethnic data collected, but solely in the U.S. and we were trying to think about how would we collect that here in the Netherlands? And we don't collect data like that. And so we emailed back and forth with Laura at Sligo. And she said that they just dropped that question. The same with the Malaysian partners and Taiwan and we don't categorize individuals according to Black, white, Hispanic, African-American, those categories don't exist. It's whether you're Dutch or not. And whether you come from a migrant background or not. And so the categories that are used in the U.S. even though they make sense to me, because I'm American, they're not practical here.  Jyothi: And for our students, if they had to fill that out, they would know what to make sense of that. We do have students that are Black, but they're African black. We have Zimbabweans; we have Ethiopians; we have a different category. So their experience about being Black is very different. And so I think we spent a few emails, so we actually don't have those questions. So it was also looking at the survey to contextualize it for the various regions, what made sense. And that was fascinating for us to think about as a team. How do we think about this, and what are the assumptions that we're making when we include these questions? Jolie: So, MJ, you were the founding director of the Health, Wellness, & You academic learning community at BGSU where first-year students guided by upperclassmen, grad students and faculty mentors became researchers about their own health patterns. Can you talk a little bit about why you think it's important for first-year students in particular, just to really think reflectively about their patterns and to find opportunities for improving their own self-care practices? Mary-Jon: Jyothi and I actually talked about this yesterday. And one of the concepts that she talked to me about was critical junctures in life. And Jyothi was talking about that in the context of the COVID pandemic being one of these time points, where it can cause you to take either path A or path B, and it's a life course shift. And I think that parallels the work that we do with first-year college students. So it's one of these critical junctures in life where students are adopting patterns that may follow them throughout life. So it's a time where if you're able to establish healthy lifestyle behaviors. So if you're able to learn techniques that will help you to improve your resilience or be more physically active, or eat a high-quality diet or sleep better, that those are patterns that you can use to support you throughout life. Jolie: Given your experience at both the U.S. systems, and now in the Netherlands, I wonder what changes you'd like to see implemented. And you can answer this at whatever scale you want, whether it's sort of on the small scale, like a college campus, right? Are there recommendations you think that could improve health care access and the issues of resilience and things like that for students, or they're kind of bigger scale changes? Clearly, you're mentioning sort of the different kind of economic and social support models that's a much larger scale, but what are some of the smaller scale changes that you think could help improve student outcomes in times of real challenge?  Jyothi: So, one of the things that my institution did, because we were shifting online, we decided that the student's well being was central to that. And we weren't going to operate as a business as usual standard. So our Dean actually said, "it's okay if you want to cut back on content a little bit to ensure that whatever you teach you meet the learning outcomes, but you kind of focus on a few things and ensure that they learn those well." So that relieves a little pressure from us, but it also helps the students that they're not just moving from one task to another, to another, one topic to another. So I think it's recognizing at the moment what you need and for the students, it wasn't drilling content and more content into them. And so I think it was even in the initial stages of the pandemic we had from the institution and understanding that 80% is good enough. That we need to transition ourselves. Many of us have families, kids that were home, and it wasn't this expectation of you must work a hundred percent.  Jyothi: You need to be on calls. 80% is okay. 70% is okay. And part of that is, it's a different sort of job guarantee. In the U.S. you have tenure in institutions, but many of us here have permanent contracts. So after two years, you're generally up for a permanent contract, which means that it's really hard to fire you. But most people work really hard, so there's a level of trust. So with my husband's company, for example, he was locked down and worked from home, but it was also, they told him universally for the first two weeks, just make that transition to being at home, ensure that your kids are okay. And I think it's not just us as a university or college, it has to be multiple pieces of the puzzle to recognize that we're all in this together and working together. And it made a huge difference that my husband could take two weeks and we could kind of focus on the kids and we didn't have to worry about this and that, that we could kind of transition as a family into this new reality. Jolie: You've both studied, taught and worked at universities and cities around the world. I'm curious as to some observations you might make about similarities or differences with how different regions or nations provide mental health resources and support to students in particular. Mary-Jon: Something that we have both talked about is the stigma that is associated with mental health care and concerns. At BGSU, right before the pandemic, we participated in something that was called, The Healthy Minds survey to look at mental health factors on our campus. And some really interesting findings came out of that. So most of our students were experiencing mental health challenges. So about 60% of them were experiencing mental health challenges, but only about half over the time course of a year actually got treatment for their mental health challenges. So that's half of students going untreated, and the students by and large are reporting that those mental health challenges affect their academic performance. So about four and five of them are saying "these mental health challenges have affected my academics." Mary-Jon: And I think maybe the most interesting thing that came out of that survey for me was that almost no students said that they would judge another person for receiving mental health services. It was very small. It was about 4% of them, but 47% of people thought that other students, other people in their lives, would judge them for receiving mental health services. And when I'm thinking about that, that is the single biggest challenge is to mitigate that stigma so that we're getting students and we're getting members of the population at large connected with the services that they need. Jolie: How does that compare to your experiences, Jyothi?  Jyothi: So while we do have good overall medical care, I think mental health is one area that we don't do so well here. So there are waiting times, and it is a challenge to go and seek mental health care. And at my college, we do have student life counselors, but there's a limited number of sessions that you can have and schedule with the student life counselor. So once those are done, you do need to seek care outside of the college and getting and accessing that care, while it might be free, is a challenge. And even that, there are limits to how much the insurance will cover.  Jyothi: So in the Netherlands, they ask you to define whether you have a low problem, a medium problem, or a high problem. And then they decide how many sessions they think that you might need. So someone who has a low mental health issue, they might decide to give you 10 sessions, and then it just scales up from there. So while we do have a system that there are not barriers financially, there are other barriers. And so it has been a challenge this semester for some students accessing those services and part because in the country where we struggle with that in general. Jolie: We're going to take a quick break. Thanks for listening to the Big Ideas podcast. Announcer: If you are passionate about Big Ideas, consider sponsoring this program. To have your name or organization mentioned here, please contact us at ics@bgsu.edu. Jolie: Welcome back to the Big Ideas podcast. Today, I'm talking to Dr. Mary-Jon Ludy and Dr.Jyothi Thrivikraman about sleep, mental health, and resilience in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic. Nancy Krieger, a professor of social epidemiology at Harvard's Chan School of Public Health said that COVID is pulling a thread that is showing the very different conditions in which we live because of social structures that are inequitable both within the United States and between countries. By pulling the thread, it's revealing patterns that have long been known in public health. I think this really speaks to what we've been talking about. As we've seen, the pandemic has exposed and deepened racial, socioeconomic, and health inequalities. In the U.S. this is definitely true in the case of Black Indigenous, Latinx, and other communities of color, having higher rates of infection, serious illness and death. And we're certainly seeing that here with the disparate economic impacts of the virus. Do you also see differences in access to and the efficacy of self-care, sleep and resilience among members of at-risk groups? Mary-Jon: I would see some specific challenges to these BIPOC communities and challenges that I have experienced when working with my students are that oftentimes these communities are essential workers. So they haven't been given the same breaks or the same flexibility that lots of us have had for working from home and social distancing. So these communities are put at greater risk. And some of the students that I've worked with, they have had to continue working at their jobs because they are the only family member who's currently working right now. So even though they're trying to navigate the higher education system, they're also responsible for supporting their families. And I think that there's a good body of research to say that the BIPOC communities are also living with higher levels of day-to-day stress. And those experiences with chronic stress can have an effect both on mental health and on physical health. So it's a more vulnerable population. Jolie: Anything you want to add to that, Jyothi?  Jyothi: Yes. So we don't have the same categories. So for us, it's migrant, non migrant. And within the migrant category, we do distinguish between Western and non-Western migrants. So for non-Western migrants, so in the Netherlands, that would be Moroccans, Turkish. We do have a large Indonesia Surinamese population from the former Dutch colonies in Indonesia and Suriname. And in the first wave, they were not disproportionately impacted, but in the second wave they have been disproportionately impacted. In terms of whether they're essential workers or not, we don't necessarily have that. So it is much more of a mix between Dutch and non-Dutch doing some of those grocery store clerks, the other essential roles.  Jyothi: So it is a different mix here, but I would argue, yes, these communities have been impacted in other ways. So whether it's primarily suffering illness and death from that, but they might have impacts around food. They might be under employed, so the other secondary impacts. A lot of them may not speak Dutch. So accessing medical care, the shift to online education, if your kids go to a local school, everything was in Dutch. And so some of the parents have challenges understanding what is going on if you don't speak Dutch. And then there aren't very many support mechanisms to help non-Western migrants who don't speak Dutch right now. Jolie: We are recording this conversation in December 2020. So we're now a year out from the first confirmed cases of COVID-19. I want to ask a last question. What do you think are the most important lessons that you hope we are learning? What do you see as the best-case scenario for how this current crisis might transform our conversations around mental health and wellbeing? Mary-Jon, you want to go first? Mary-Jon: Sure. For me in the pandemic, I have seen the value of educational institutions. Bowling Green State University, often calls itself a public university for the public good. And I believe that the pandemic has made that mission even more clear. So I'm reflective. And I think about the pandemic as an opportunity to be part of the solution. Something that I think about with higher education is that it has a reputation for being a bit of a dinosaur. So we don't adapt very rapidly to change. And the pandemic was something that forced us to rapidly adapt to change. So we were able to transform our courses quickly online. We have been able to learn that we can work in hybrid course environments in hybrid work environments. And if we have students or we have faculty, or have staff who are experiencing challenges, that it gives us an opportunity to work with them in a flexible sense. Jolie: And for you, Jyothi, what do you hope we take away from this time?  Jyothi: I think to follow up on what MJ just said; I do think that it has opened up new possibilities from an educational standpoint, new ways of collaborating across institutions, amongst faculty. We've had guest speakers from around the world that we didn't even think were possible. And so, for exposure to students, that's been brilliant. We've also gotten much more creative about trying to design assignments, where students go outside of the building. So we don't just give them essays anymore. We say go safely or in groups of two with masks and go take photos and develop an essay. So we've started to think creatively about how education works and what's the best way for students to interact with the material. But because I like larger pictures, I do wonder because there is this talk about getting back to normal and some of the conversations we've had about structural inequalities, both in the U.S. and here in the Netherlands.  Jyothi: I do hope that we don't go back. I hope that one of the lessons that we learn is how to creatively engage with solutions and problems. To realize what we've been talking about, which is that we're people and that we need each other much more than we've realized. I think both the U.S. and the Netherlands tend to be very individualistic on some level. And one of the lessons that I hope and that public health is formed from is how important we are and how connected we are. And we sometimes forget that. And I hope the pandemic has made us realize our connections. Jolie: Yeah, I think that's so true. I think this time, and the challenge is so many of us have with social distancing, that feeling of isolation really does reveal that when we talk about public health, we're not just talking about viruses or bacterial infections or things like that. We're also talking about collective mental health, and the social fabric of communities and the need to really prioritize that. If we can get a man to the moon, if we can do this moonshot warp speed for a vaccine, why can't we have those same kinds of ambitions and success at really rethinking the social fabric of our communities to be more equitable? So thank you both so much. You wanted to add something? Mary-Jon: So can I add something? And I don't know where to throw this in later, I think many of the pieces of education and pieces of programming already exist, it's just getting people connected with those and something that's been really neat on our campus is we've had these dining robots. So these little robots that you can order and they deliver your meals to you. So that's something that happened on our campus right before the pandemic began and something I serve on this mental health awareness and education committee, and something that we were able to do was to get messages to students about support services, like the counseling center to be included in the dining robot. So when you get your meal, you also get a message reminding you of support services. Mary-Jon: I don't know that will work and actually help to connect people to the services. But I think we need to look at those unique communication methods. And another thing that campus is doing is Designing Your Life. So that's a book that came out of Stanford, but it's an approach. And it's been mostly used with mid-career professionals who might be unhappy in their lives. So to think about how to design more successful and more meaningful lives, but it's an approach that's really being considered for college students to think about designing their lives in a manner that will promote better balance and better self-care. Mary-Jon: So I'm thinking about some of these things that we discussed, and I'm thinking that if we have this designing your life approach, that part of that is thinking about how to bolster your resilience and thinking about how to set up healthy lifestyle behaviors. So I think about these pieces just being infused in all of the courses, and as faculty members, we're always putting together a syllabus design for course. So what can you put in there that can help to connect students with services and let them know that it's actually okay to access the services? Jolie: Listeners can keep up with ICS by following us on social media, whether that's Twitter, Instagram, or Facebook @icsbgsu. You could also listen to Big Ideas wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Please subscribe and rate us on your preferred platform. Our producers are Chris Cavera and Marco Mendoza with sound editing by Marco Mendoza. Research assistance was provided by ICS intern, Morgan Taylor, with editing by Kari Hanlin. Musical Outro: Discussion.  

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends March 31st 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references:Laura is Head of Content at the National Football Museum in Manchester, UK, where she is responsible for overseeing the collections, exhibitions and communities teams. Prior to working at NFM, she held leadership roles at Oxford University Museums and the National Trust. Laura has 8 years’ experience as an independent museums consultant, a role in which she worked with museums of all types and sizes to improve resilience through transforming organisational practice, better understanding audiences, improving evaluation, and developing innovative programming. Laura holds a PhD in Museum Studies from the University of Leicester, UK, for research into resilient community engagement practice in museums.Outside of work, Laura likes going to gigs, exploring new places and visitor attractions, watching football (her own footballing ability is, sadly, non-existent), enthusing about dogs (particularly her own rescue Staffy, Chance), and spending far too much time scouring vintage shops to find the perfect 80s dress.www.nationalfootballmuseum.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/laurafcrossley/Twitter: @lfcrossley Jon is Exhibitions Manager at the National Football Museum and has worked in the sector for 15 years. He’s worked on a number of exhibitions including Curator of the show ‘Strip: How Football got Shirty’. Born in Blackpool, his seaside upbringing has had an impact on his exhibition ethos of bright colours, cheeky humour where appropriate, experimentation and “what’s the worst that could happen?!”. Prior to working at NFM, he served candyfloss to the punters at Blackpool Pleasure Beach and worked in the curatorial department at the Manchester United Museum. With a remit to lead the National Football Museum’s move into digital, Jon has co-presented the Museum’s successful podcast and developed a popular online version of the ‘Strip!’ exhibition.Outside of work, Jon is a vinyl obsessive and adores electronic pop and guitars. He supports the mighty Tangerines of Blackpool FC and is a season ticket holder at the cathedral of football, Bloomfield Road. He likes visiting attractions and travelling a lot, with a preference for open spaces where he can freely walk and drink ale (not at the same time!) in the countryside.  www.nationalfootballmuseumstrip.comTwitter: @introspective81 Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue. A podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. In today's episode, I'm joined by two guests, Laura Crossley, Head of Content, and Jon Sutton, Exhibitions Manager at the National Football Museum. We discuss why it's helpful for museums to have a podcast and what you need to think about strategically if you're going to create one. We also talk about their new podcast, Strip!, and all of the lessons learned from creating it. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue.Kelly Molson: Jon, Laura, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. Look at us as well. We've dressed for the occasion. We'll have to do a little standup, we've all got our strip on. Our favorite strip and all will become clear a little bit later why we are dressed as our favorite football teams today. Kelly Molson: Okay. As ever, we start with our lightning round. Jon, I'm coming to you first. What is the greatest movie that you have ever watched?Jon Sutton: I don't know. Karate Kid's very good. Karate Kid's a good film.Kelly Molson: With Karate Kid, are you a massive '80s fan? Is this your thing?Jon Sutton: Yeah, that's one of the films that left a great impression on me. I'm watching Cobra Kai at the moment, which is the follow-on.Kelly Molson: Can we talk about Cobra Kai? Because we were obsessed. I wasn't feeling very well, and I tucked myself up on the sofa with a duvet and Karate Kid. I was like, "Everyone keeps talking about Cobra Kai. We should do it. Let's start it tonight." Oh my God. Genuinely, did the whole two series in less than a week. We just smashed through it.Jon Sutton: Yeah, I'm stopping it. I'm calming it down because I don't want it to end. I think we got a bit giddy and then I'm calming it now because I want to... Series three is coming very soon so I want to make it that I'm there for it.Kelly Molson: So, you haven't seen the last episode yet?Jon Sutton: No, I've not seen the second, I've only just joined the party.Kelly Molson: It's feel good, isn't it? That's what I love about '80s films, they're really feel good. That was a great answer.Kelly Molson: Okay, Laura, I'm coming to you. What fictional family would you be a member of if you could be?Laura Crossley: The Simpsons. That's really obvious, isn't it? Partly because my family was absolutely obsessed with The Simpsons and even now, I find myself saying catchphrases. Like, "I have a feeling that we are going to win the lottery." Or like, I'm a vegetarian and I always quote things from the Vegetarian and I think other people know what I'm talking about but I'm like, "Oh no, it's just me and my family who know that."Jon Sutton: It was on the first day when you said, "Cowabunga dude." Laura Crossley: I skated in, in a hat. Kelly Molson: Love it.Laura Crossley: When I was younger particularly, I would get a lot of grief about basically being Lisa. Like when I was younger, I was very, very right on. I was a vegetarian and in the episode where she becomes a vegetarian, she can see bits of animals. That was exactly like me.Jon Sutton: Can you play the saxophone then?Laura Crossley: Can't play the saxophone but I could play the flute. I was in an orchestra, I could play the flute.Kelly Molson: Oh, that's close enough.Jon Sutton: Going to play the piano.Laura Crossley: And in my peak teenage years, I did go out, but I also spent early Friday evenings in Salford Youth Orchestra. So, I was really cool.Kelly Molson: You really are Lisa. You've already joined the family, you're there. Oh, I love it.Kelly Molson: Okay, we're going to go to your unpopular opinions. Jon, I'm going to come to you? What's the thing that you think is true but nobody else agrees with you on?Jon Sutton: I think it's humanity's worst invention, umbrellas should be banned really. I hate them. They're a weapon, pretty much, and particularly as people are more and more on their phones these days while they're walking down the street, if they're carrying an umbrella, you could lose an eye.Kelly Molson: Do you not think that this is an issue with people looking at their phones rather than the umbrella though?Jon Sutton: No, I think it was even before. I thought everybody hated them. Apart from Rihanna, I thought everybody hated them.Laura Crossley: I don't think I've ever hated an umbrella. I lose a lot of umbrellas. My mum once bought me 11, you know those little pocket-sized ones? She bought me 11 of them for Christmas one year. I had a whole stocking full of one pound bargain umbrellas because I just leave them in places.Jon Sutton: That's the thing, you think, "Well I don't want to spend a lot of money on them because I'm going to lose it," but if you buy a too cheap one, it's going to be inside out, probably leave things, it just doesn't stop revolving that's the problem.Kelly Molson: That's a great answer. Again, not really what I was expecting but interesting. All right, Laura, what's yours?Laura Crossley: Mine's going to sound really geeky now which is that I think that often theme parks are better at talking about history, teaching people about history and the environment than museums are.Kelly Molson: Oh wow, okay.Laura Crossley: Do you remember when we could go on holiday and things like that last year?Kelly Molson: The good times.Laura Crossley: We could go to other countries and it was really nice. I went to Florida last year and I didn't really go to Disney as a kid or anything but it was really fun last year and I nearly came back and wrote a big blog post about all the things that museums can learn from theme parks because I think they can learn absolutely loads. But one of them definitely is about teaching people about history and the environment and science because it just talks about things, you don't even realize you're learning. You think you're just on a ride or having fun or in a queue or just walking for a different land or watching a film or doing something that's just really fun and then you come out and you're like, "I've just learned about this new [inaudible 00:05:55] a new kind of animal that I didn't know about. I've learned about this really interesting thing in history that I didn't know about."Laura Crossley: Obviously, we can't see the original objects and that is a really good thing about museums but I just think the way that theme parks are quite sneaky about the way that they teach people history. Maybe it's mainly Disney because that is a big theme across Disney.Jon Sutton: I worked five years at the Pleasure Beach, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, for five years. I must admit I didn't really think about it from that point of view. I felt that I was not getting paid enough. I wasn't very good at doing candy floss either, terrible. If you asked me for a stick of candy floss and I would give you them through gritted teeth. I'd really try and shove a bag onto them because a bag was much easier to make.Kelly Molson: Oh, I always fancied a go of that though.Jon Sutton: Oh my god, it's really hard. It's so hard. Laura Crossley: Really?Jon Sutton: Particularly in Blackpool where it's windy all the time. The machine's quite dangerous as well because it spins around but you have to make sure you've got the right amount of moisture on the edge of the... You can't have too much moisture but you need some moisture for it to stick to the sides. It's really, really hard.Laura Crossley: It's like science.Kelly Molson: I've learnt so much today, I really have. I haven't even asked you any good questions yet. I've learnt loads.Jon Sutton: Museums are a breeze compared to producing candy floss.Laura Crossley: That's really interesting.Kelly Molson: I think, Laura, it's about making it fun.Laura Crossley: Yes absolutely, and immersive.Kelly Molson: Yeah, and then you don't really realize that you're learning, so you suck it in.Laura Crossley: Yeah, the other thing I really like is that it's really multi-sensory. You can hear music or read stuff and the atmosphere and so you just, yeah exactly, you don't realize you're learning. It's just really cool. Whereas at museum's I think sometimes, we don't talk enough about the story. I think sometimes it's just like, "Oh, there's another object." As Jon knows, I'm not the biggest fan of labels in museums. Maybe that's an opinion that won't go down well with the museum sector but I do think we put far too much stuff on labels and always want people to read everything.Laura Crossley: And I think sometimes it's nice to also help people use their imagination and tell a story, and not just be like, "This is a thing. Look at this thing and here are some facts about it." It's just, I don't think it's very engaging.Kelly Molson: Well, this leads us really nicely actually to what we want to talk about today because the reason that we are dressed in our strip is because we want to talk about your new podcast, it's called Strip the Podcast, but it's in line with the exhibition that you've got running at the moment which is Strip! How Football Got Shirty. And I guess that goes a little bit hand in hand about what you're talking about in terms of telling a story about something. So Laura, just for our listeners, can you just give us a little overview of what the National Football Museum is.Kelly Molson: I mean, it says very clearly what it is in its name, but what do you do there?Laura Crossley: We do all sorts of things. We are England's only national museum for football and we basically explore the impact that football has on all our lives and how it shapes identity and a bit like I was saying about telling stories, we are moving much more towards telling stories and sharing other people's stories about the diversity of the game. So we are not just about talking about men's elite game, although that's obviously a big part of football but we're also about the women's game and also, I think a really good thing that we can do is challenge attitudes around homophobia and racism. Laura Crossley: I watched that Anton Ferdinand documentary last night and just thought, "Gosh, there's still so much work to do in terms of challenging racism in football." So we're trying a lot more to tell those difficult stories and hopefully change attitudes and make football something that's really welcoming for everyone because it's something that touches all of our lives, even if you're not a football fan, it's not something that you can escape. It's something that you might dip in and out of or you'll know people who like football and so it is about telling those really broad stories and for me, about celebrating diversity and making everybody feel like they have a place in the game and that they're represented in football.Kelly Molson: Lovely. And Jon, the exhibition is something that you've been organizing. So can you tell us a little bit about what this exhibition is about? Again, How Football Got Shirty, I think we could maybe hazard a guess at that.Jon Sutton: There's no shorts or socks in the exhibition. That was the first thing. We're not having shorts, we're not having socks, it's just shirts. So yeah, it's got over 200 shirts going right back to the Victorian era, so it's very comprehensive. We did the first century of football shirts because there wasn't an awful lot of change and then we branch out into the '70s of Admiral and the dawn of replica shirts. And then we've got some bangers from the '90s, lots of the bright and the garish ones. We've got a bit about the retro revival. Got a real controversial hall of shame area which actually, the six shirts in the hall of fame are all pretty good shirts, to be fair, generally. But they're there almost for a malfunction of design, that's why they're there like that.Jon Sutton: And then right through to the present. So one of the big things now is eco-friendly shirts, so sustainability and we've also got loads of shirts from the women's game as well because I think we're the first exhibition that have worked out that basically women can play football too and women wear football shirts.Jon Sutton: There's been football shirt exhibitions in the past or there's almost like kit experts and things like that but I don't think the women's game and the shirts that women wear has been told yet. So it's really comprehensive. One of the toughest things is having to do the top 20 shirts of all time. It's so subjective.Kelly Molson: Yeah, I'll bet.Jon Sutton: I'm a Blackpool fan and I didn't put a Blackpool shirt in the top 20.Kelly Molson: There's no Tottenham shirt in the top 20 either, I checked.Jon Sutton: There are a lot more Arsenal shirts than Tottenham shirts as well.Laura Crossley: Oh dear, anyway.Jon Sutton: The shirt you're wearing is in the exhibition. Kelly Molson: It's a great shirt.Jon Sutton: We've got a Jurgen Klinsmann shirt as well when he did the dive celebration. We've got that in the museum as well. It's not in the exhibition.Kelly Molson: Perfect moment. Okay, so great exhibition, great museum. You've been shut for most of this year which has been a challenge all around in the sector. So what I really want to talk about is what you've done to engage your audience while you've been shut, and one of the great things that you've done is launch the podcast. It's a big thing to do, it's a bold move, and that's what I want to talk about today really. So I guess my first very short question, which has probably got a really long answer is, why a podcast?Jon Sutton: To be honest, I don't really listen to podcasts, so it was quite hard presenting one because I didn't really know much about the basis of being the host on a podcast, I'll be honest. And I think David realized that very quickly, our digital producer. I think David realized that too when we started.Kelly Molson: What have I let myself in for?Jon Sutton: I was amazed. On the day, luckily Tim, who is our graphics and interpretation producer, basically the three of us in our exhibitions team, we kind of led it I suppose, and luckily, he'd done a script which was really helpful because I was going there without even a script. Laura, why did you [crosstalk 00:13:36].Kelly Molson: Yeah, how did you come to the decision that a podcast is the thing that you're going to create to engage people with? How did that process work?Laura Crossley: I think a podcast would... because I joined the museum almost a year, just over a year ago, and even when I joined there were talks, before we even knew about COVID, there was talk about doing a podcast as a way to reach the audiences and share our stories in a different way. I think because our mission is all about sharing stories and a podcast, I think, and that narrative, is a good way to do that.Laura Crossley: So we'd always thought about doing a podcast and then Jon's team got some funding and it made sense to make that about the Strip exhibition. But certainly, when we then shut, for me it became more of an imperative. I know that museums decided to see lots of different things during lockdown but we have on our strategy, the aim to build a virtual museum, basically reflect the galleries and the content of the museum, but digitally, whether that be in our social media content on YouTube or via podcasts or whatever it might be.Laura Crossley: And so I saw this year as a way for us to just experiment because what other year do you get... I mean, obviously, it's been a bad year but the one positive, I think, is that it's allowed people to throw caution to the wind and just say, "Well, we'll just experiment with lots of different ways to engage people because why not? And if it doesn't work then it doesn't matter and we learn from it."Laura Crossley: And I really hope that that's something that museums take into the future. I think we always try and plan and try and be perfect, whereas actually, I think experimentation is much more exciting and just seeing what happens and not really worrying too much if things don't work because so what? You've learnt lessons and you try again. So for me, that was the really good thing about a podcast and also, I did really feel for them. Strip opened in my first week at the museum, and so it was open for what, three months, and then shut.Laura Crossley: And I could tell when I joined, I mean, Jon can talk a lot more about it because it's his exhibition, but I went to the opening night and I remember just thinking, "Wow, so much passion and love and care has gone into this exhibition," and it was incredibly sad to see it have to close, well, the whole museum have to close. So I think we focused a lot on putting content out about Strip. Partly for that, because it was just such a great topic, something that was really engaging. Something that we know that if the museum had been open, lots of people would have come to the exhibition and we really wanted to give them the chance to experience it in a different way.Jon Sutton: Yeah, on the day, the last day of March before we closed, we did a frantic tour around the exhibition and we got our own Strip website as well dedicated to the exhibition. And in co-curating the exhibition, we had so many assets. I'd spoken to a lot of the kit manufacturers, a lot of the kit experts. We'd had a panel discussion, been out to some clubs. We had so much and then only so much of that can go into the exhibition.Jon Sutton: So we're sitting on all these assets and I think we divided it so some went out onto the Strip website but then even then, we had so much and we just thought, "If we theme it right, we've definitely got a podcast here." And so we've managed to use some of those assets in the podcast but also recorded new interviews with people as well for it. So luckily, I think we've done a decent job on it.Kelly Molson: So you've done six episodes, is that right? Six episodes so far. Let me just go back a bit because what you said is really interesting, Laura, and I think I agree with you in terms of playing with things this year. We all know it's been a challenging year but it has given us that opportunity to do some new things and do some different things that we don't know if they're going to work, we don't know what the reaction's going to be but let's try it, right? Very much the same with this podcast that we're on. I had no idea what the... We'd pre-launched it the previous year. Hadn't really got a lot of traction and thought, "Let's bring it back. There's a lot of people that are potentially sitting around maybe with not a lot to do at the moment. Maybe we can give them something to listen to."Kelly Molson: And so, that was the objective really. What can we push out there that'll be helpful and engaging for people right now. So with the podcast, did you actually set any objectives for it or was it purely, "We're just going to do this, see what happens."Laura Crossley: I think this is what we were grappling with a little bit because we were kind of pushed into doing digital before we'd written a big strategy about it, and as I said, I don't think that's a bad thing. It's kind of like writing a strategy for research and development which isn't a bad way to do it. For me, Jon might disagree I don't know, but it's about engaging more people in a deeper way and growing those audiences and also hopefully, some of the people we engage will actually physically come to the museum. Acknowledging that some people who live in different countries might not actually physically be able to get to the museum now or in the future.Laura Crossley: But for those people, making them aware of us and getting a kind of loyalty to us and looking out for our stuff and feeling part of the museum and then for other people, hopefully encouraging them to come through the door and become physical visitors.Kelly Molson: And I guess you won't see that until a bit later on potentially, whether you do make that shift from people that are listening to the podcast, to coming along. Jon, I've got so many questions about the podcast because I know myself personally, how much time and effort and a challenge it can be. You said earlier, you've never made a podcast before. Have you ever been a guest on a podcast? Have you ever had any interaction with any of them?Jon Sutton: No, I don't think I have. I don't even think I've been a guest. I think I just assumed they were a bit like radio but not live. I have listened to some podcasts but not many, so I had no experience really.Kelly Molson: All right, so you were at the point where you've got all your assets and you think, "Yeah, we've got a podcast here. We can create some content and its valuable content, it's interesting." Where did you start because that's a big learning process, right? To saying, "I've got this idea about a podcast, I've got all this stuff, now I need to make a podcast." What did you have to learn?Jon Sutton: Well luckily, [crosstalk 00:20:02]. The first episode was a bit... Looking back now, if I listen to it now, I think it would be quite rustic and a little bit raw. One thing I did before we did the podcast, I listened to some other podcasts about football shirts. They were all pretty good, generally, but at the same time, I thought they might be slightly better at presenting than we would be. They may be more confident in front of a microphone, et cetera. But at the same time, I thought they might not necessarily have the assets we've got and also the knowledge that we've acquired in curating the exhibition.Jon Sutton: So that was a bit of me that thought, "Well, what's the worst that can happen with this thing and if we are terrible, at least we've got the guest to pull us out." The first one we did wasn't the best but then the next one we did was really good and then what we did was we went back to the first one and re-recorded it. But we did that with most of them, so it wasn't necessarily really a quick process. Sometimes we'd start in the morning, rattle through in say, an hour, get lunch. Then we'd go, "Actually, I think we could do that better now."Jon Sutton: So most of them, we did it in two takes. There was a period where we recorded, I think, probably three or four within a two week period because we were going into the museum, say, once a week when we could. And we found that we found a rhythm to it and then there was one episode, the last episode in the podcast, which I think is actually somehow the best one. We'd been about three, four weeks between recording the fifth and the sixth and that day, we had Linda working on it. She was fantastic. We had Tim working on it, he was fantastic.Jon Sutton: Whatever reason, I think I might have had a couple of too many drinks the night before or something, but I was absolutely appalling. Nothing was flowing that day, it was awful, but listening to it, you can't tell. So, David's a magician.Kelly Molson: So you had in-house editing skills, which is a huge bonus because we outsource our editing, we've got a brilliant, Steve is our... He's an award-winning podcaster. I have to just give him a little plug there. But that's the one thing that we didn't have in-house, so we were like, "Well that's something that we need to get professional help with." That's a huge cost saving and, like you say, it means that you can go back and do things again, so you've got that time.Jon Sutton: I mean, there's a lot of to-ing and fro-ing as well. David would cut something, for example, and I'd go, "David, you just cut me." The pinnacle moment of the podcast, for once I was really funny in that point and David's just like, with a straight face, "It wasn't very funny at all, Jon."Kelly Molson: Steve does this to me all the time.Jon Sutton: That's the thing. Just because you're the host doesn't mean you get any kinds of rights, do you?Kelly Molson: None at all. My bits are always the bits that have been cut. Jon Sutton: The weird thing, I've been finding myself cutting myself as well. So when we have the to-ing and fro-ing, I'll say to David, "You need to cut me at this point," because I sound like an absolute imbecile. And it feels weird being the... It's almost like if you did an exam or something and you're the teacher putting the red pen through your own examination.Kelly Molson: What about equipment or anything like that? I'm just thinking about other museums that might potentially be looking to make this decision and do something like this. Did you have to invest heavily in any specialist equipment or did you have things that you just got? Did you just get by with what you had?Jon Sutton: Yeah, I think what we try and do with each exhibition is we try and purchase bit by bit, like piecemeal, I suppose. Little bits that make us stronger in the future so we've got a legacy from each project we work on. I'm not really technical, I'll be honest. I think we got new headphones and the new microphone but we had some other microphones. I remember though, I had the worst microphone. It wasn't a massive outlay. The other thing is, David is really particular and Tim, we are quite particular, but I think really, you don't have to have mega-quality to do it.Jon Sutton: For me personally, I think the stories and what you're going to tell is more important than if there's a little bit of hiss on it, for example. And we did have to lower our standards a little bit because we did some interviews with people via Zoom, et cetera, for it. So it's not all slick, I suppose. But yeah, it wasn't a massive outlay and luckily we've managed to, each exhibition we do, we try and buy a little bit of stuff.Kelly Molson: All right, two questions. What went well and what didn't go well?Jon Sutton: I think we managed to replicate the themes of the physical exhibition, I suppose. If you hadn't seen the exhibition, I think you would've got a good flavor of what it was about and I think, actually, at times, we even went a little bit further. In the exhibition, for example, there's a Lewis FC shirt and it's got What If on it as a hashtag and it's about the fact that they are the world's leading club on equality. Their men and women's teams get exactly the same resources, same pay. There are not many clubs doing that.Jon Sutton: And you've got a label on it and we're really strict, I think it's 50 words on a label, but we then take it one step further, so we then in the podcast, feature somebody from the club about what that stance means. So in a way, it looks at it and expands on it. It adds more to it. So I think in that respect if you think about the podcast and the Strip website as a duo in digital terms, I'd still want people to come and see the exhibition but you're getting a really, really good flavor of what we're about.Jon Sutton: Things that didn't work was, you can't really tell, but it's quite a time consuming, I think, recording a podcast. David's having to do a lot of editing. Tim, our digital producer's doing the theme music to it which obviously you don't have to do, go down that route, but he was bringing his own symph-pop tune-age to the proceedings. But even writing the script's quite time-consuming as well, so you've got to dedicate quite a lot of time to it really but luckily this year, we've been able to do that with lockdown and that experimentation aspect.Jon Sutton: I suppose one thing is that if you're doing it, don't see it as an add-on to what you're doing really. I think you need to build it in from the start. I think in the past, we'd never done a podcast. We've done online exhibitions on our website but they've been very much afterthoughts. Whereas we did build it into our thinking when we opened the exhibition in, I think it was November. 2019, we knew we were going to do some of this stuff but when we had the lockdown, it almost accelerated it, I suppose.Kelly Molson: Yeah, that makes sense.Jon Sutton: Nothing major. I remember the police sirens going off quite a lot when we were trying to record and then the lift would be going up and down, so it makes a racket. You've got to choose your space as well. Kelly Molson: That is really good advice actually because our podcast has been a lot better since I've been recording it at home. I do get the occasional dog bark but that's better than the constant trains that go past our office. So, it's swings and roundabouts.Kelly Molson: This brings me to a really good question to come back to you on Laura, actually, and it's something that you mentioned before we started speaking which is around what you said about not just bolting a podcast on, thinking about this strategically. Why is it helpful for museums or attractions to have podcasts and what do you need to think about strategically from the start if you're going to go down this path?Laura Crossley: I'd say this for everything about digital museums, that I think we can get a little bit excited about the word digital and just go, "Oh yes, we need a thing. We need a digital thing and if we get a digital thing then we're going to engage lots and lots of people and then they're all going to come to the museum and it's all going to be amazing." And I try and remember back to my Masters, which was a long time ago now, so before we were talking about things like podcasts, we talked a lot about digital interactives and it was in the first session where the lecturer was like, "Digital interactives are great but they will break and you have to have a reason for doing them and there has to be an audience in mind."Laura Crossley: And I think sometimes with digital, we don't plan with audiences in mind. It's like everything that we know about audience-centric planning goes out the window because we think, "Digital. Cool. Amazing." And I love digital stuff and I do listen to podcasts. Adam Brookson's podcast is my happy place and I do think they can be really good for museums in order to tell those stories and engage people who might not have heard of the museum before. Build the brand. Engage them with stories that they wouldn't hear if they weren't in the museum. Laura Crossley: Keeping engagement with audiences. I suspect that some people who listen to the Strip podcast have come to the exhibition but want more information and also, as I said, potentially convert people into visitors to the museum. But I think it's really important firstly, that there's a reason to do it. The podcast took a long time, it wasn't the quickest digital thing that you could do, so you do have to have a reason for doing it. I also think, really thinking about who the audience is and is the audience right for a podcast or should you do something like a YouTube channel or should you get a TikTok channel. I don't know, all the various different digital things that we can do.Laura Crossley: And also really plan it into strategic planning because the time it takes, the capacity, the resources. It can feel like it's free because you might not have to buy loads of equipment but it's not free because it takes people away from doing stuff on the galleries and the museum. So it is really important to schedule it in and make sure that you have the provision for it. And although I think that museums are getting better at having roles, actually it's been really interesting, over lockdown, I've seen so many more roles for digital content producers who just solely focus on blogs and podcasts and digital channels. So I think that's definitely going to be a trend that continues but you do need someone to take ownership of these things and not just say, "Oh well, someone will do it at some point."Laura Crossley: So yeah, definitely have it in the strategic plan. Have a reason for doing it. Know who your audience is. Test if it's the right thing to do, and it's fine if you have all of those things and then you try it and it doesn't work because then you can evaluate why it doesn't work, but you need to know why you're doing it. And also I'd say, next week, we're doing an evaluation session about the podcast which is really important to me because again, I want it to be a learning experience. So there'll be things that have gone really well and there'll be things that haven't as much but it'd be good to really test that. And I'd also really like us to talk to people who listen to the podcast and hear what they think about it and whether it has done what we set out to do.Kelly Molson: That is really good advice, and actually, my next question was going to be, what would be your best piece of advice to other museums who were thinking about doing this? But I think you just summed it up absolutely beautifully there, Laura. Jon, have you got anything that you would add to that in terms of your best piece of advice for a museum that's thinking about starting a podcast?Jon Sutton: Yeah, I think I might have covered some of it already but it's things like building the time, don't see it as an add-on, what's the audience? The Strip, I knew that we already had an engaged crowd for that and also it's not particularly niche either. We're not going for necessarily the most niche subject in the world, football kits and what they represent. Particularly at the moment, I think lockdown brings in... This year, if anything, has brought in a real nostalgia to yesteryear, hasn't it? Jon Sutton: The first shirt, basically, I ever had. Wore it when I was eight years old. It's an adult one but it's the same design, so I knew there was an audience for it. So that's how we built around the exhibition but if we were talking about football studs, for example, boot studs or something like that. I'm not sure whether that-Kelly Molson: That's like the niche that, isn't it? I definitely wouldn't have listened to all six episodes of that podcast, Jon.Laura Crossley: [inaudible 00:32:44].Jon Sutton: Exactly, but the thing is, you need to realize what you're presenting isn't niche. I'm not sure all museum people do that, I think you get bogged down in the day to day and maybe you need that bigger picture of actually what I do is quite a niche.Kelly Molson: Great advice.Jon Sutton: So we knew with this one it wasn't too niche.Kelly Molson: Really, really good advice. We're coming towards the end of the podcast. On every episode, I ask my guests if there's a book that they would share with us and it can be a book that's either helped you in your career or just a book that you really love and our lucky listeners get to win this book. So Laura, what have you chosen for us?Laura Crossley: Well, I was racking my mind for museum books because I did a Ph.D. in museum, so I have obviously read some amazing and really not so amazing type of books. Some amazing museum books that have really shaped my career but I was thinking about what book do I actually really love and again, remember that I'm a geek. The book that's really stayed with me for a long time is, Of Mice and Men, which I read when I was in year 10 doing my GSCEs, a long time ago now. And I was thinking, "Has that affected my museum career?" And I think it has because of all the books that I like, like that and The Catcher in the Rye and A Room with a View. Well firstly, they're all set in the past. Well for me anyway, they might have been contemporary at the time but for me, it was reading about the past and so I think that kind of bringing history to life.Laura Crossley: A bit like I said about theme parks. I think that books can do that as well really, really well and sometimes in a more emotive way than museums do. I think museums have the power to do it but they don't always do it. And also, all those books are about this big and you can probably read them in a day if you put your mind to it. And again, I think that's why I really like the power of storytelling but not over using words, just telling, a bit like with films. I just want an hour and a half. I just want to watch Stand By Me in an hour and a half and be told a really good story. Laura Crossley: And the same with books, just tell me a really emotive, evocative story, that paints this amazing picture and transports me into that world. I don't need too much and that's what I think museums should really aim to do as well. Think about storytelling and description and emotional engagement, as well as just, "Here's an object," and expect people to be engaged with it. Kelly Molson: I love that. I love that you've tied your book choice in with your career and how it's focused you on what you do. Jon, what about you? What have you got to share with us?Jon Sutton: Bringing you back to football shirts. When we were starting this exhibition, there was two books that stood out. One of them was book that was The Worst Football Shirts Of All Time, and I was flicking through it and I was like, "Well, that's a banger, that's a banger. These are amazing shirts. This book is so wrong." But the thing is when you look at these best ever shirts and worst ever shirts, often they're the same, they've just put opinion. But the book really that got the exhibition, made me say, "We're definitely doing this exhibition and we need to bring this author in," is a book called True Colors by John Devlin. He's done various books. His latest book is all about international kits.Jon Sutton: He does these beautiful illustrations of the shirts. He draws every single shirt, for example, England. He will have drawn in that book, every shirt that England have worn. Really nice illustrations. The passion for the subject comes across, the depth comes across as well. His books are amazing and we actually hired him as an exhibition consultant on the basis of his brilliant books.Kelly Molson: Wow, bet he never saw that coming when he was writing his books.Jon Sutton: No exactly. We can't feature every club in the exhibition, we've got 200 shirts, but there is this rainbow of football shirts that he drew for us and so most clubs are covered under that, for example, Derby under white, for example, Tottenham under white. And so, True Colors by John Devlin is my choice and it's the right one.Kelly Molson: Great but I love that book has been part of this journey that you've been on with the podcast as well. It's really great to tie it all together. Well as ever, if you want to win a copy of those books, then if you head over to our Twitter account which is Skip The Queue, and you retweet this episode announcement with the comment, "I want Laura and Jon's books," then you will be in with a chance of winning them.Kelly Molson: I've loved having you both on today, it's such an interesting topic because I've a personal experience of just how difficult it is to start a podcast, edit a podcast, all right, Steve does the editing, but pull a podcast together. Think about who you're going to have on as guests. It's a huge amount of work and I think it's a brilliant task that you've gone ahead and done this.Laura Crossley: Can I just say, I think yours is brilliant. It's so good.Kelly Molson: Thank you.Laura Crossley: I think that visitor attractions have a lot to learn from each other and I sometimes think museums can be quite snobby and not see themselves as a visitor attraction. Whereas actually, one of the best things we can do is give people a good day out. We should sometimes just relax a bit and say, "Actually, a really great thing we do is give people a good day out."Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's making memories, isn't it? So six episodes of the podcast have been released, what's next? Do you think there's any more episodes coming?Jon Sutton: David was really, really brutal in his editing, so I think there could be something in a bloopers episode, like a special. He'll probably tell me, 'No," but I was thinking like some of the bits, sort of me being stupid generally.Laura Crossley: You've said it now in public, so that's it. [crosstalk 00:38:40]. Kelly Molson: It's a commitment.Jon Sutton: It'll get vetoed, I know it will. It never gets their own way. I think it's probably it for Strip for the time being but then we're going to look at hopefully something that talks about the other stuff we do as a museum. So something that isn't exhibition focused but is about our general offer and the stories we want to tell and the power of football ultimately.Laura Crossley: I think for me, really feeling down to who it's for because we could just do it in so many ways and tell so many different stories and maybe that's something that museums do grapple with a bit, that unless it's about a special exhibition, you have to really think about who it's for and what you're trying to do, otherwise you could do a podcast that just never ended and you talk about a different random thing every week.Jon Sutton: That doesn't mean it's not going to have those studs [crosstalk 00:39:28].Kelly Molson: Honestly Jon, if anyone wants to listen to a podcast about football boot studs, email me and let me know and I'll pass this onto Jon but I think I'm going to get very few emails about this.Laura Crossley: That's episode 527.Kelly Molson: Guys, it's been so good to speak to you today. Right everyone, if you want to listen to the podcast, it's called Strip! The Podcast and you will find it on all of your usual podcast channels. Go and download it, it's really entertaining. I have listened to five of the six episodes now and look, I'm a football fan, I love football shirts and I really, really enjoyed it. I think you'll get a lot out of it if you're a football fan in general. So definitely go and download it.Kelly Molson: All that's left for me to say is, "Thank you both for coming on."Jon Sutton: Thanks very much, brilliant.Laura Crossley: Thank you, I love the Skip The Queue podcast, so it's really cool. Thank you so much for inviting us.Kelly Molson: Thank you for making it... It's the guests that make it, so thanks.Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip The Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review, it really helps others find us and remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

I sat down w filmmaker Laura Kezman, who is owner and director of LionArt Media. She formerly worked at 88Nine Radio Milwaukee as a video producer. We had a few drinks as we discussed Laura's gig w National Geographic, working on the documentary "Invisible Lines", leaving 88Nine to start her own thing, productions she's working on, and navigating self-care through quarantine. So Laura...how's that dream journal coming along? --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ben-slowey/support

Back to school is stressful for families touched by diabetes, even without this year's incredible and unique challenges. There’s a new service in development to help make it just a little easier to let someone else take care of your child. Bob Weishar is the founder of a new company called Invincible. We’ll find out more about what he hopes to do and how this teaching and communication tool might help. Check out Stacey's book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! In Tell Me Something Good.. graduations.. zip lining and sky diving! This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription: Stacey Simms :00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes, and by Dexcom, take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Stacey Simms  0:23 This week, even in normal times back to school is stressful for families touched by diabetes. But there's something new in development to help make it just a little bit easier to let somebody else take care of your child.   Bob Weishar0:34 And when you're trusting other people to do that, there's bumps along the way. And I think that's one of our goals is really to develop that trust with school with grandparents with other places that kids go so that families don't need to worry so much and then kids can just go about their lives and have fun wherever they are.   Stacey Simms  0:52 That's Bob Weishar, the founder of a new service called invincible. We'll find out more about what he hopes to do and how this teaching and communication tool might help in Tell me something good graduations, zip lining and skydiving. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider.   Welcome to another week of the show. I'm so glad to have you along. If you are new, we aim to educate and inspire by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed with type one right before he turned two. He is now 15. And like many of you, I have been back and forth and back and forth and up and down about school. I have a high school sophomore. That's Benny and I have a college sophomore and I'll talk about my daughter in just a moment and her plans. But boy school this year will look like nothing any of us have experienced before. our school system as I am taping just changed the plans and I'm sure they will change again. But here's what happened. We live in the Charlotte Mecklenburg school system Mecklenburg is our town County. This is an enormous school system with 150,000 kids. It's geographically large. It's a metropolitan city Charlotte with lots and lots of suburbs. I grew up just outside of New York City. And if you are from the northeast or probably other parts of the country, but definitely the Northeast, the school districts are tiny, right? They have a couple of thousand kids, maybe 10 15,000 kids, and then each town has their own system. We had the Yorktown school system where I grew up a couple of elementary schools, one or two middle schools and one high school. So you know, making decisions for a much smaller district, very different than making decisions for this gigantic one. I was prepared to have a lot of patience to go along with the decisions made as long as I felt they were safe. And I knew they were gonna have lots and lots of options they had already been talking about this all summer about maybe hybrid maybe in person may be remote with the opportunity to opt out at any time. About a month ago, our school board announced the choices that they would be making. They had three plans a UBC a would be fully in person B would be hybrid c would be fully remote. And you also had a different option where you could opt into a Virtual Academy. And once you did that your child was online for the semester, no matter what the school decided to do, if they came back, if they went, it didn't matter, you're you were on line for the whole shebang. So we had to wait for the governor to decide what to do here in North Carolina. And once that option was made, our school district pulled the trigger on Plan B, but they called it B plus. And it was an option that hadn't been on the table until that night. Basically, it was in person for two weeks, and then virtual for further notice. And what they wanted to do is see the kids they wanted you'd only go in for two days. During those two weeks that they wanted to see the kids they felt like they had lost track of some kids again, it's a very large school district. They wanted to give the kids technology and just wanted to make sure that I guess kids weren't being lost in the shuffle was what they said. But just today, new ruling came no two weeks in school. That was the Not safe. We're all virtual. So virtual until further notice in Charlotte Mecklenburg. And I'm telling you this long story to illustrate what you're probably going through as well, so many different decisions, so many choices to be made. If your child is in a public school, or a charter school or private school, or you homeschool already, there's nothing easy about this. I'm going to come back after the interview, and talk a little bit more about my daughter's college plan, which I think is pretty amazing. And it's I wish our municipality had this, I feel like she's going to be safer there than even in our county. So I'll talk about that towards the end of the show. I feel like it's such a difficult time right now. And we're putting so much pressure on ourselves as parents. So before we jump into the interview, I just want to say two more things. One, if your child has a 504 or IEP, just remember, it's still valid even if you're in a virtual situation. I don't know exactly what that looks like. It's different kid to kids, certainly. But it is valid and I know that in our school district where they the plans are good for two years unless you want to make modifications. They will contact As the semester begins, so I know we'll be having a conversation a couple of weeks into August or September school here starts in the middle of August, which is, again, very different from how I grew up or school starts after Labor Day, but your 504 or your IEP, they are good, regardless of how school is happening. And the second part is deep breath. I was on a call recently with a teacher who lives with type one. So shout out to Rachel, and she told us and I want to pass this along to you, your child can always catch up on learning, but your child needs now is love, support, your confidence, your calmness, as calm as you can be, your child needs you to just be there to be supportive, to be helpful. And to help them get through a situation and you can be honest about it that nobody has faced, the grades will come back, the learning will come back. But if we could take a collective breath as a community and help our kids who already have so much on them, and we have so much on us with diabetes, I think really it'll be so much easier to get through and when we're finally through this month. We can see, okay, you need to learn this, you need to catch up on that. But we will not have sacrificed that love and that support. And if you are a teacher or school staff who decided to listen to this episode to see if you could learn something from it. I do the same thing to you. I say at the end of every episode, be kind to yourself, man. Oh, man, you gotta be under so much pressure right now. Be kind to yourself and let's just get through this as best we can together. Okay, invincible coming up. We're going to be talking about this new program. But first diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop, and One Drop is diabetes management for the 21st century. One Drop was designed by people with diabetes for people with diabetes. One Drops glucose meter looks nothing like a medical device. It's sleek, compact, and seamlessly integrates with the award winning One Drop mobile app, sync all your other health apps to One Drop to keep track of the big picture and easily see health trends. And with a One Drop subscription you get unlimited test strips and lancets delivered right to your door. Every One Dropped plan also includes access to your own certified diabetes coach. questions but don't feel like waiting for your next doctor visit. Your personal coach is always there to help could Diabetes connections.com and click on the One Drop logo to learn more.   How is the communication around your child's school experience you text or email or get a printout? Maybe you already use a diabetes app to keep track of food and dosing and care and other issues. Well, my guest this week wants to help standardize that make it a lot easier. Bob Weishar was diagnosed with type one in college. He shares that story and a lot more and joined me to talk about invincible Bob. Thanks for coming on. I'm really interested to learn more but but what a time to be talking about schools. Thanks for spending some time with us.   Bob Weishar7:43 Yeah, really happy to be here. All right,   Bob Weishar7:44 before we get into any questions about this school year, and how different it is going to be because I think most parents already feel that way. And let's just start what is invincible. Describe what this is all about.   Bob Weishar7:55 Yeah, of course. So we started invincible really is our mission is to inspire kids with health issues. And we purposely picked a name that doesn't have health in the title. Because really, we think that there's a lot of opportunities that kids have with health issues to just live a normal life. But even more do do amazing things. And so, broadly speaking, that's our mission, obviously, there's a long way to go to reach that. And where we've actually started is, throughout the journeys that kids have is helping them in every stage. And so as kids grow up, we want to be able to help parents and their kids really grow. So we've actually started with schools and families as a place where kids spend most of their time when they're not at home. And we've been working for the past 12 months or so to really work with schools work with families to develop a product that connects them throughout the day and ultimately gets better care for kids and the support that they need, especially for elementary aged kids   Stacey Simms  8:50 You were diagnosed as a college student though, and you don't have children with type one. How did you come up with the idea to do something like this?   Bob Weishar 8:57 Yeah, it's well, a long time in the making. I think I was So I was diagnosed as a freshman in college in, I mean, I got to see firsthand what it was like to be kind of away from home on my own trying to figure this out. Luckily, I didn't go to the emergency room, I had kind of the symptoms I'm sure a lot of people have around just being alive and drink a lot of water, losing weight for college freshman was a weird thing. So that kind of took me off. But really, once I was diagnosed, went through all the struggles that I think families and lots of people go through when they're first diagnosed around just learning the disease and learning what to do. And I mean, I was just thinking about this the other day around, trying to go to a support group even and just seeing people that no one looked like me right and, and that really was kind of the place that I was meant to go learn and figure this out. And so that kind of stuck with me and that that planted the seed and it sounds weird now, but I always wanted to do something more with it than just manage my own condition and really after college got the opportunity to work on a couple different projects with some insulin manufacturers and develop some innovative programs around kind of chronic care. Management. So through there got the first itch to really apply my personal experience, but then also match it with professional. And then from there went to BigFoot biomedical. And so really, that's where between those couple of experiences got a lot of first hand experience around what to do what people need. But I always wanted to do something more, so Invincibles a long time in the making, and I give that backstory because it's there wasn't any one aha moment by any means. It's kind of 15 years in the making. I think I have lots of school presentations and things that the ideas kind of came as we went and really started it just as a way to figure out a way that we think that families and kids especially the support that they need, and go from there.   Stacey Simms  10:41 What did you do at BigFoot, if I may ask?   Bob Weishar10:42 Sure. Yeah, so I was a product manager and I was focused on the closed loop system. So started pretty early, early on there with the engineering team and built the product that went into   Bob Weishar10:52 the clinical trial there. Again, as you said, there was no aha moment. But I know a lot of people who have worked or were working at the time of Bigfoot, and there are there are families They are right. There are adults with type one with children, but they were adults who have children with type 100%. No.   Bob Weishar11:07 And Bigfoot was such a great place to really just be immersed in that in that world. And that was really the first time that I had been around more than one or two people at a time that that had been so directly affected by diabetes. And so being able to go to work every day with people that knew what they were doing. And I mean, my first week up big fight, I was actually trying the Dexcom for the first time, and I figured I might as well use technology, there's going to be a diabetes tech company, and just having all the tips and tricks and the people that knew what they're doing, but really just had being surrounded by people that were just so passionate for it was just such a great environment and such a great place to be. And so yeah, I think that that gave me such a great foundation to build from and grow with people in this community.   Stacey Simms  11:48 So let's talk about invincible and what the vision is here. I have a child who's in high school who frankly, is at the stage where it's much more hands off, you know, but we went he was diagnosed at two we went into kindex gotten where you went to take care of preschool and then kindergarten. And as you know, and as most people listening know, there is so much that has to go on when you're trying to teach a school or maybe deal with a school that has no nurse or a part time nurse or a nurse who doesn't really know what it's like about type one, or who's overwhelmed by having 10 kids with type one, along with all the other kids that she has to take care of her he has to take care of. So I guess the first question I would ask you is, what are the problems with the difficulties that you're trying to help with? Because I know a bunch of them?   Bob Weishar12:30 Yes, absolutely. So that was actually about the first six months of starting the company and figuring exactly that out. So as you know, a lot of parents have the horror stories, right of what happened at school and could be all age ranges, right. And lots of things happen. And diabetes is you know, it's just really tricky. So we started with schools. It's really just kind of a research project to figure out where can we help because we heard from a lot of families that school in particular, created a lot of frustration and I mean mix it in with kids are getting older and figuring out their own lives. We've actually spent the first six months really just going into schools and interviewing school nurses to find really their side of the story, because one of the key kind of hypotheses with it was that there aren't really bad nurses. There's just a lot of overworked nurses that are probably under resourced. So that's kind of what we went in with. And we didn't go in with too many assumptions, because we just wanted to learn and we kind of had the family side of the story from lots of interviews, and really just wanted to see what what is the school nurse side look like? And what does that look like, at the school setting? And so from a solution standpoint, as we start to think about this, it's really, when kids go to school, there's, there's so much going on, right? And schools are built to teach kids at the end of the day. And so what's ended up happening and what we saw in most schools is really, there's just very, very few health resources to deal with any sort of chronic health issue, especially type one diabetes. What we found is in the schools where where it works, usually it's a really just dedicated nurse who goes above and beyond. It's a family who's just leaning in and doing everything. They can A kid with just a great head on their shoulders. And I'll be honest, we saw that more often than not, we didn't see a lot of horror stories, but there's just it creates a lot of frustration for families, of course, that what they do at home can't be the same as what they do at school and, and that's what we're really trying to help is just bridge that gap between when kids are at home and families develop their routines to when they go to school. And one of the things we saw really early on was just all the paper notes and kind of process that that gets handled at school, that could just be so much easier. What we came up with is really starting to develop a way where families can start to get some of the information that's happening at school. So when kids are in the nurses office, and the nurses already giving them insulin and writing all this stuff down. We actually saw a lot of families exchanging like paper notebooks to have their kids carry around that just inherently bugged me. The last thing we want is his kids to be carrying a notebook around and feeling any more different than they might feel already. And so that was kind of the first place where we just said okay, this this is a very solvable piece of this And so that's where we've been working since is really starting to develop just those relationships with schools and families, and then a product that helps bridge that gap.   Stacey Simms  15:06 So this is more than an app that takes place of my paper notebook, which by the way, I'm laughing as you said that because my son went back to daycare is a terrible parent. I am, he was not yet to. And he went back to daycare a week after we got home from the hospital, because my assumption was, they taught me the dummy who knew nothing about diabetes, I can teach these wonderful educators and caregivers who probably know a lot more than I do about children anyway. And they did and they were wonderful. And boy, we'll be lucky. But we had paper going back and forth. Of course, this was 2006 2007. But we had that piece of paper that the daycare center does, you know, oh, your child was nice. Today, your child went to the potty at this time. And your child's blood sugar was also this, like we just wrote it on the same piece of paper. Yep. Yeah. But I assume it's more than an app because there's lots and lots of blood sugar logging apps that tell me about the education component that you've mentioned a couple times.   Bob Weishar15:57 So really, I mean, I think this probably goes back to that first experience that I had to go into a support group and what it takes. So we've developed first is really just the basics content. Our target audience for that is anyone who might be supporting a kid with type one. So think teachers think school staff, think grandparents or friends and family that need to know at least the basic information to keep kids safe. Our spin on it isn't typical diabetes, you might see we want to make it fun and really friendly so that maybe a kid could use it but especially a grandparent doesn't have to be terrified of it and a teacher can do it on our break so that she has the information that she needs and isn't scared. That's what it's about for and really what we've developed as a foundation to develop a lot of different content beyond that, we're really starting with the basics so that kids have just the basic level of support that they need at that school but then also what those other places   Stacey Simms 16:50 Can you share a little bit about what it looks like right as a school pay for it. Does the school have to meet with you what why don't you know what what is really I know a lot of this might be proprietary but No, no,   Bob Weishar17:00 it's all good. Well, we're a startup. So we're very much figuring this out as we go. So I'll confess that but but but the education standpoint, we want it to be free. And we think that's the bare minimum thing that we can offer that just makes learning accessible to anyone in the world. And one of the really interesting aspects of this is that once we've developed kind of the framework to do these things, is that it's very easily you might imagine scalable to other languages even. And so Spanish is a great example that's pretty underserved, especially from a diabetes standpoint, where we can start to develop these fun training modules. And if you know Duolingo, that's kind of our our guiding design principle of just making it fun and friendly and kind of simple quizzes and games that anyone could do. So from a business model standpoint, the learning pieces is what we see is free and we want anyone to do that because at the end of the day, we want kids to have support wherever they go. And it's not just the kind of the technical skills of how do you deliver insulin? How do you check blood sugar, but I mean, a personal bias for me is how do you support kids emotionally too? And, and how do you talk about it? And how do you say the right things? And especially in a classroom setting? How do you get them to just feel normal and just a normal kid in class and, and have a teacher talk about that stuff?   Stacey Simms  18:14 I'm curious to how you're developing the education component, because there are so many differences among diabetes families, we had four kids in our elementary school and my style of parenting was very, very different from other there, you know, there's no right or wrong, it would never works for that family. But I would educate a nurse and educated educator, sounds funny, I would educate a nurse and educate school staff in a different way about type 1 diabetes. And to be clear, you know, it's not that I mean, there are some things that you have to do that are just type 1 diabetes. I'm not talking to the definition, you know what I'm talking about. I mean, we're about we did not use share and follow, for example, with our elementary school educators, whereas the other families did, and I'm curious how you handle things like that, when you're educating Who's getting the education process? I mean, I know you don't diabetes, but we all do this a little different   Bob Weishar19:05 100%. So our eventual goal is really to partner with with institutions that do this for a living. And what we've been doing in the meantime is really just relying on best practices material from jdrf from ABA. And so piggybacking on like, what might be a Word document or website, but just converting it into something that's engaging and so kind of the way we see it is chunking all this stuff up so that it's just bite sized pieces that people can handle. As for a content standpoint, absolutely. You're absolutely right. And so what we've developed so far is really the the foundational pieces that anyone might need. So think just checking blood sugar, what is blood sugar, handling a low blood sugar and high blood sugar. But as we go beyond that, that's where it starts to get personalized to each family and child. And what we envision is really being able to personalize that to the the school setting or to the child so that if they're not using a CGM, for example, we're not having a teacher go through a CGM module that that she doesn't need to know yet. Got it,   Stacey Simms  20:01 as I put my two cents into your app, which you didn't ask for, you know, things like every family does this differently, or this, this is a choice, right? This particular point of care may be something this family does, or this family does not do that sort of thing.   Bob Weishar20:15 Totally, totally. It's been interesting, too, because a lot of the a lot of the school nurses that get it understand that so well, right is that each family needs a little bit different type of handling and treatment, and in the way that they approach it, it's just different. And so I think when we're in person, we naturally do this, as we we have kind of some of this digital education, that's something that needs to be front and center because it's it's too easy to just create a one size fits all   Stacey Simms  20:40 approach. I would imagine that the nurses and the school staff and you folks are better at differentiated that than we as parents, right? We tend to think the way we do it is I don't want to say the right way. But we kind of live in this bubble where it's like, well, everybody must be doing it this way. So I'm glad to hear that but as we're talking through it makes me think I bet the nurses For a lot better at knowing that, that I'm even giving them credit for this. Well, it's it's two sided, right? I mean, every family knows their, their own kid and what works. And so I mean, like anything, it's a partnership. And that's what's been really fun with this is really trying to just see both sides and really just putting the kid front and center throughout this so that at the end of the day, that's what everyone cares about. Absolutely. is something that that occurs to me as well. We had an issue in our school district a couple of years ago, you know, when Dexcom share and nightscout technology sharing different ways to look at, you know, continuous glucose monitoring numbers on devices came in. At first, it was kind of up to the nurse and the parent or the staff of the parent to say, Sure, I'll follow you on my phone or sure I'll follow you on my desktop. And we had a school nurse who would follow the children on her personal device and I guess turned it off at night. I really don't know exactly how they did it, but a year or two into this when it became much more standard of care and you know the Dexcom share and follow SR To be even though I know it's not it seemed to be ubiquitous in our school district, the district actually had to make some decisions about technology. And they locked it down, you know, no more personal devices, no more following after school hours. And I think things that were very, very proper, but frankly threw a monkey wrench into existing systems that these parents have been using, you know, have you run into anything like that?   Bob Weishar22:22 Yeah, it's actually a big continuing pain point for for everybody, I think because I mean, as you know, I mean CGM is once you once you're used to having CGM, once you're relying on it. It's just it's crazy to think that you're just going to ignore it or turn it off. So what the school districts that we met with we came out with probably 100 or so districts throughout California at this point, and it's all across the board really, and really, from the kind of point of Oh, yeah, we follow every number and of course, we're going to have this on iPads in our office and our in our teachers and our in our classrooms, all the way down to know exactly like you said we're not going to allow this In school, so what we're finding is, I mean, like anything that the answer probably falls somewhere in between where it's, it's not quite, we're going to follow every single time. And we're not going to check every five minutes for a nurse that is already numbered 2000 kids to one, yeah. But it's also not, we have a low glucose alarm, we're going to ignore that. And so that's where we're finding a lot of the happy mediums. And a lot of the districts we saw were at a minimum there, they're responding to alarms, because it's just a no brainer, that we're going to do that. But there's also not a dedicated person watching numbers all day either. And a lot of those cases, it's, it's a lot, a lot of the families that are at home, maybe and they can text the nurse or text the teacher if something's needed, but it also gives a little bit of time back to the kid to to just be in class and be present. So that that tends to be the middle ground. And again, I I don't have answers for this. It's just what I've been seeing. But it certainly is top of mind for a lot of these nurses, a lot of these school districts as they take on some of that liability in their in their minds.   Stacey Simms  23:57 Yeah, it's a difficult issue because if you have a tiny little School, our little school district with one kid. No problem. We have 150,000 children in our school district. Yeah, it's a little different. And no full time nurses. I go vote. It's an interesting time. What have you found has been the really great thing about invincible What do people who start using this are testing it? Like what, uh, schools?   Bob Weishar24:22 Well, what's been what's been fascinating and so we've been piloting this since last year. And the first test, which was really what school nurses use it, we kind of knew that families would get value from really having this information available to them, and not just to create information, but really just to improve communication so that they're not texting and calling all the time. But what we saw is really, nurses take this as a tool of their own, so that they can better support the kids too. And so that's been really fascinating, exciting to see because just being able to go in person and see some of the glucose shacks and the lunch tracks at school happen and being able to give that information to families, real time Just so that they really just have that peace of mind that their kid is being taken care of and that ultimately, they're safe and happy. Still just scratching the surface on that. And we've got lots of lots of progress to still make but but that's been really exciting to see is really the schools tried to embrace this and, and of course, families and kids get a lot of value from what do you need from the community? Do you need anything? Do you need testers? Do you need feedback? Should we hold our horses for a little bit? Well, you know, it's interesting, because it's it's obviously a tricky time, right. And as we focus a lot of our efforts on schools, it's it's not the best time to have a product that helps families communicate with school in a remote world. So we're very much figuring that out. I think what I would say is what we need at this point is we're still early stages and the product we've built for school. I think for those families that are going back to school in person, we are absolutely looking for beta testers at this point to try it out and and really try to help us continue growing this product and ultimately helping kids with with diabetes and And eventually other health issues too. For those families that aren't we, we'd love to hear from them too, because we like I said, we're early stages. So our ultimate goal is to support kids throughout their health journey. And so we don't want to just build one product that that helps communication between school at home, but really developing something that can help kids start to develop their independence and confidence and managing and eventually inspiring them to do whatever they want to do for any families out there that are interested in that we'd love to hear from them and and have them contribute some their ideas and thoughts. And as we continue to iterate I think we'll come up with lots of cool ideas and things to test out what is unusual. And I mean, what a year this is already. It's you know, as we're recording, I think a lot of school districts and parents are still figuring out what they're going to be doing for the fall. So separate from invincible. You know, it's got to be so frustrating. I'm curious, have you have you talked to any of your local school districts this year? Any advice for families trying to navigate this? Well, I mean, I think the key message is, we're all figuring this out together, right? And there's no good answer. And I wish there was and it really is varied by a lot of the different states and schools that we're working with. That's what they're doing. And for instance, a lot of the California schools we're starting to see are going at least starting remote so that's a that's a challenge but but understandable on a lot of levels too. So I mean, I think above all like like we all know is just work with your school the figure it out, and it's not gonna be perfect. Not none of this is perfect in the COVID world. But um, but yeah, I mean, that I think that's the key message that we're hearing is, a lot of school nurses are just getting this information the same time as families are. And so just so trying to make sense of this all and help help us all together in this process.   Stacey Simms  27:41 So earlier, we talked a little bit about that horror story, terminology. And, you know, I shouldn't I wanted to go back to that that term, you know, the horror story, and I have to admit that as I said, My son was diagnosed really little, and we kind of had diabetes down are doing okay, we're growing. When and kindergarten, the idea of kindergarten stressed me out and instilled such fear in me. I still don't know why it was so unreasonable because he had such good care in daycare and preschool. And we had a wonderful elementary school, but we were the only family with type one at the time. And I was so scared, and it was so much better than I had feared. And so when we talk about the fear that parents have of sending their children to school, I always like to use my story. I mean, you know, I think we kind of have to go through this ourselves, right? I can't tell another family don't do it. I don't don't feel what I felt. That doesn't make any sense, right. But learn from my experience, and the hundreds of families that I've been so fortunate to meet and talk to over this last 13 years of Benny having type one diabetes. I don't hear a lot of horror stories. I hear a lot of fear. And I hear a lot of when my child went low at recess, or you know, they didn't spot the high and in my head, I'm thinking I'm not perfect at home with my kids diabetes, like I've missed lows. I've missed highs. We've missed doses we've knocked off sites, stuff happens at school just like it happens at home. And I'm wondering if I'm an outlier? I don't think so, in thinking this way, or most of the families you talk to, are just trying to make the experience smoother and better. And not fighting that horror story to tell.   Bob Weishar29:19 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I think like any news, the sensational news tends to bubble the top right. And I think probably maybe some percent of families are doing exactly that is sending a kid to the school for the first time is really hard. And again, I'm not a parent, but I can absolutely empathize with it. But really, really there. You're exactly right. In terms of families, we're just trying to figure this out. And it's scary. and managing my own diabetes is scary. I did a diabetes camp a couple years ago. And I think managing for someone else's just added stress, and it's probably 10 times as hard as managing my own and in checking other people's blood sugars and so on. But you're absolutely right in terms of really just the challenge of managing diabetes at school and other places. It's a work in process and it's never perfect. And when you're trusting other people to do that, there's bumps along the way. And I think that's one of our goals is really to develop that trust with school with grandparents with other places that kids go so that families don't need to worry so much and they can just go about their lives and have fun wherever they are.   Stacey Simms  30:21 I'm such a fan of something like this because you know, and may sound if you're if you're newer to the show, or you haven't read a lot of my stuff, I may sound very laissez faire and hands off. Right, he'll be fine. I'm not I you know, I worry a lot. I just try not to give my worry to my kid. But something like this, which would help the school understand that the parents not a crazy helicopter parent, right. And also allow some of us who want to kind of over over protect our kids like I've had those instincts where I want to wrap my head in bubble wrap. I feel like this would be so helpful for me, because it would help me hand off more. So I think it sounds It just helps on both ends by educating some school districts. I mean, I'm so lucky I say this all the time, we've been so lucky with our care. I never had to do the big fight. We've had to do some things. I know some parents out there really struggle and having a thing where you could say, No, look, I'm not the only one. And here's a resource can be so helpful. I'll get off I will get off my soapbox. I'm starting talking about me way too much. But I have a question for you about emergency administration of like of glucagon and things like that, you know, there's different ways to do that. Now there's different products. But I'm curious that that is something that is really a non negotiable in my mind that schools need to know how to administer emergency from the time is that something that you help with?   Bob Weishar31:39 Yes, absolutely. I think the what we have is really some some basic modules with that we started tentative out but that thing, but absolutely and I think as like back semi unhealed insulin becomes more prevalent that training only becomes easier. But it is it is a challenge, right because as you probably anticipate sticking the needle in an emergency situation is a big challenge. And so I think part of it is reducing some of the fear factor around administering an emergency treatment. But the other part is just repetition and practice.   Stacey Simms  32:09 I think, too, as a parent, I would love some backup on that, you know, I trained everybody on the red box way back then there, but you know, even showing somebody had to use the vaccine, as you mentioned, or the G vote, the auto injector, you know, these are so much simpler, but I would really appreciate the opportunity to have something to say like, here's your look at this. You can look at me too, I'll show you how to do it, but I'm not I've never had to do it knock wood. So that's great that you offer that as well. Hundred percent. You said early on that, you know, we want to keep the kid front and center. Are you talking to the kids about what they want? Are you telling the kids about what they need at school?   Bob Weishar32:46 Absolutely. So so that those are those are most fun interviews. And so we've done we've done a lot of just in person visits and we get to go to the school and the kids and one of my favorites is got to be there. When someone's first day Back to school with diabetes. And so got to just hear what that was like and his perspective. And so decided to develop some of those relationships around just seeing not only when kids are first diagnosed and trying to figure this out, but throughout and again, we're early I don't claim to have any or, or most of even these answers. But I think that's what gets me really excited is that kids are ultimately our customers. And they might not be paying for any of this or but but ultimately, they're living with this. And so if we can do right by them, I think we've ultimately we've done our job. And what an elementary school child needs is much different than middle school and high school and even college. And so we've spoken to a lot of families, a lot of school nurses, but ultimately putting kids friends center and being part of this whole development experience and engaging them is really our ultimate goal.   Stacey Simms  33:46 Can you share a little bit about what the kids say? I mean, I'll give an example. I would sit down with my son and I still try to do this, but he just rolled his eyes at me now. But I would sit down at the beginning of every school year and say, what's the goal for this year? What do you want to do? in first grade, he wanted to eat in the school cafeteria. That was a buys lunch. That was something that we didn't do in kindergarten, because we wanted to keep it super simple. You know, in second grade, he wanted to not have to leave gym class. He wanted to, you know, we love to eat in the classroom, he rarely went to the nurse. But the gym was right near the nurse and long story short that he wanted to just stay there. So every year he had a goal. By fifth grade. It was nobody talked to me about my blood sugar. And I wasn't ready to let that go. So we devised like a thumbs up to his teacher at lunch, which meant Yes, I've dosed you know that. Yeah. So like we we talked about it a lot and was like, What do you want? I'm curious if kids have shared those kinds of things with you.   Bob Weishar34:38 No, I probably haven't asked the right question. I'd love that. I mean, we've asked them about just kind of generally like what they what they go through at school and I think some of those exact same things that you've mentioned around they don't want I think the the common ones that we've heard are as simple as like, Yeah, I don't want to leave lunch. I don't want to leave class early hearing a kid say they don't Want to leave class really is a good thing. But yeah, that's pretty exciting. But just simple things have just, they just want to be with their friends, they want to be in class, they don't want to leave recess. Really, what I saw a lot is really the kind of 15 minute rule that a lot of schools will have around after they check if they're low. And that's obviously a big pain point for a second grader who wants to go go back to recess. So those are the main things that I've heard at least and but I love the the aspect of just asking a goal oriented question on each year because, because that's really powerful. And I've actually heard a few families mentioned the kind of the thumbs up, thumbs down, especially when kids are really just tired of talking about it as important.   Stacey Simms  35:39 Yes. And you're so when you find a teacher or a staff member who will work with you like that. That's the greatest feeling in the world. Because they get it they understand that your kid just wants to go through class. They're tired of beeping, they're tired of talking to them. You know, and then when you get to middle school, in high school, you have you know, different parameters all together. This year is so unique. I mean What a time to try to help schools and try to help families. But I love what you're doing here and I'm so glad you shared this with us. You know, we already asked about how we can help us the community or what you need from us. Do you have a sign up? Do you have ways that people can learn more?   Bob Weishar36:13 Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to our website it's invincible app.com you have to spell invincible and and also you could also email me Babbitt invincible app calm and, and either one will work and will love to love to hear from you and reach out to any families there.   Stacey Simms  36:31 Thank you so much for joining me and spending some time and kind of hearing me also get up and down on my soapbox. I appreciate you   Bob Weishar36:37 know, this is great. We'll have to do we'll have to do some some interviews at some point. We'll love to hear hear your perspective as we continue this because I mean, I think that's that's one of the aspects of this that that gets me really excited is I think one of the things that that I learned early on is everyone kind of figured this figured this out for the first time each time and so if we can start to use some of the experiences of families that have been have kids that have been through this and kind of extend those and start to develop some best practices. I think that would just be such a wealth of knowledge that we can pass on the telephone and just help people get through this.   Announcer 37:15 You're listening to Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  37:21 More information about invincible and how you can send feedback and all that good stuff just go to Diabetes- Connections com and click on the episode homepage. Of course there's a transcript for this episode as well. And tell me something good is back this week. We have so many great stories including one about skydiving I'll be honest with you something my daughter really wants to do and I would never do food get to that moment but first diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. And here's what I have to say about control IQ, the Dexcom G6 Tandem pump software program, we are doing a lot less work for better results. I'm gonna say that again, because that happened in diabetes, less work better results. A couple of years ago, we got the CGM on the screen and Benny like that, but it was more just a cool feature. He really looks at his phone a lot more to check his Dexcom. But the control IQ is taking this to a whole different level. His time and range has increased significantly his A1C has come down significantly since we started the system in January. I love it. I can't say enough good things about it. Of course individual results may vary. To learn more, go to Diabetes connections.com and click on the Dexcom logo.   Tell me something good this week comes from comments in our Facebook group. It is Diabetes Connections, the group and I have so many things to share with you so we'll just scratch the surface with a couple. I'm so glad to bring this feature back. It's always my favorite part of the show every week. Lots of graduation stories. Janice says, I'm officially done! Macey didn't attend a live ceremony last week. We didn't feel it was safe. But we met teachers that are old schools for a socially distance photo op started with her first preschool teacher. Her school life hasn't been normal once her graduation wasn't either. We turned lemons into lemonade, and Janice is well known to a lot of you even if you don't know her name or her face maybe because Macey is Macey's believers of walk team that's been around for a long time and it's been a lot of good both with Jdrf and with the friends for life conference. So congratulation Macey and well done. Janice Niva writes in: my 11 year old T1D and her family went ziplining in the North Carolina mountains. We carried all of our supplies and fanny packs. I almost didn't allow us to do it because we were hours away from any medical help. If something happened, everything went great. I'm glad we did it and didn't let diabetes get in our way. And congratulations and boys. They're a great picture. I'll share this offer kiddo just ready to go with a mountain behind them. Oh my goodness. I like the idea of zip lining but I've never done it over. This is I'm familiar with this one. This is a really long one. And I would be nervous not because of diabetes just because I'm a big chicken, which means I would never do this next one. Oh my goodness. Laura says My brave girl went skydiving So Laura wrote in we all know T1Ds are brave My brave girl went skydiving with her dad last weekend. She has wanted to do this since she was eight years old. She says it lived up to expectations and exceeded them. Mom says I was nervous but her blood sugar's Of course she was really high when she boarded the plane because of adrenaline. But then she plugged her pump control IQ and quickly got her back on track. She gave it two thumbs up and plans to do it again someday. Oh my goodness. I love seeing stories like this. I thank you so much for sending them in. We got a whole bunch of you know my A1C is great. And you know I'm always happy about that, but I you know me I hesitate to congratulate somebody on their number. I really want to hear the story behind it and what else is going Well in your life, especially now this is a tough time to have any control over anything. And to be doing well like that is great. So share your numbers but share a little bit more about what's going on because I think that's actually more helpful than the number and I will leave you with this one. Noni wrote in not diabetes related, but our one and a half year old is finally eating tiny bites of solid food without gagging and choking. He's a fan of Turkey and green beans. Way to go, buddy. That's awesome. I'm telling you. I will take your Tell me something goods that are teeny tiny accomplishments, the super tiny stuff and everything in between. We have so much to celebrate in this community. I want to help you get the word out about your good stuff. You could email me Stacey at Diabetes connections.com or go to the Facebook group Diabetes Connections, the group join in and jump into the conversation. Tell me something good.   Before I let you go, I said I was going to talk about my daughter's college. Now as we're taping this, it is the very beginning of August We are less than two weeks away of bringing her back. She goes to Tulane, and this was her sophomore year. I am very nervous because of everything that's going on. She's going to be far from home. But I think going back is the best thing for her. And boy, this school has been on top of it. And I'm not bringing this up to brag on Oh, this private institution that was able to do this. I'm bringing it because, man, if we could just have this kind of plan for the nation for our states, we would be open so much sooner. I don't get political on the show. I'm not about to get political now. But give me a break. This is all about test, trace and isolate. It's not rocket science to lane is testing every student as they return, and you can't get back in your room until you have a negative covid tests that they will administer. Same thing for off campus students who can't get back into class until you test negative they will be doing monthly tests of all students, faculty and staff. And they're doing randomized daily tests. So if you're selected for daily tests, you will get a text and then you must make an appointment for your test with us. certain period of time I think it's 48 hours, they've put aside a big dorm building. And I think a hotel is in there too, in terms of isolating students who need to be quarantined, and they have another system set up, if someone you've been in contact with has tested positive, they've put up a bunch of outdoor buildings. I don't know how to describe this other than if you've ever been to a fancy golf tournament, one of those tents that is really like more of a building and has air conditioning inside, they've set up a bunch of those for dining and extra classroom space. Some of the classes will be virtual, but she will have in person classes and she will be able to do so many of the things that she wanted to do last year. I'm keeping my fingers crossed hoping that what is basically an experiment right works out but I gotta say, this seems to be a really good and well thought out plan. So I'll let you know we also as a family have a plan for if everything goes well, great. If it doesn't, what we're going to do if she gets sick, obviously we have one plan, but if the people around her if the campus goes in one direction, you really hate that we have to seek these things out. But we do in terms of how we're going to get there, how we're going to get her home, when we're going to leave her all that stuff. Man. I know so many families are making similar decisions. And it's just so frustrating because we know it didn't have to be this way. And that's all I'll say about that. All right, lots more to come in the weeks ahead. You can always find me on social media, Stacey Simms or Diabetes Connections on Facebook and Twitter, on Instagram. It's just Stacey Simms, just the one account there because I got started late on Instagram and I don't see any reason to have two accounts there. As always, thank you to my editor john McKenna's from audio editing solutions. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Stacey Simms. I'll see you back here next week. Until then, be kind to yourself.   Benny  44:49 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms Media. All rights reserved. All wrongs avenged

Over the last few weeks I’ve been laying the groundwork for the Growth Ecosystem - the 3 fundamental principles you need to have in place to achieve your goals over the long-term, and experience explosive growth in your life (and in your marriage):   Have a goal that inspires and motivates you (just like plants strive towards the sun). Surround yourself with a supportive and nurturing community (just like plants use soil to hold them in place during rough weather). Develop a system of regular accountability you can rely on to facilitate your journey towards your goals (just like plants rely on a steady supply of water… or they die). After nearly a decade of interviewing, studying, and learning from the top marriage experts on the planet, the Growth Ecosystem is what I believe sets apart the most extraordinary marriages from the ones that fail. It’s not just about having a growth mindset! That’s only part of what you need to create a life you love. You are limited by your mindset if you don’t have an environment that will enable your growth. This idea of the Growth Ecosystem is at the foundation of everything I do here with the Growth Marriage. Every email send you, every course I create, every podcast episode I publish, every social media post I… uh… post…  It’s all in service to this mission: Can I help you get closer to the life and marriage you want? Can I provide you with an encouraging and supportive community? Can I help hold you accountable so you can accelerate your growth? So, here’s 2 weird things about me… I think about my death a lot. I’m weirdly altruistic At the end of my life, I want to be remembered for being the guy who helped people have amazing marriages. I want that to be my contribution to the world. My legacy. That’s it. It’s literally what I think about every single day. With that context in mind, today’s podcast episode is about something special that I’ve been working on for quite a while with my good friend, Laura Heck. It’s called the Epic Wives Experiment. Here’s why I’m excited about it. Laura and I talk to wives who feel overwhelmed, burned-out, and lonely nearly every day. Maybe you can relate? (I don’t know about you, but when I got married, that’s not what I hoped my marriage would feel like.) Ultimately, here’s what we want for wives: We want you to feel cherished, loved and adored by your husband We want you to carry less of the emotional and mental load in your marriage We also want your marriage to feel fun, exciting, and flirty again Does that sound good? That’s exactly why we created the Epic Wives Experiment. We see so many wives spinning their wheels, trying to get more done in less time, carrying the bulk of the responsibility for the quality of their relationship on their shoulders… and frankly, they end up burned-out, tired, and resentful. We don’t want that for you. Most women do one of two things when they’re feeling burned-out: Some women put on their super-hero cape and take on all the responsibilities they wish they had help with… even if it means sacrificing themselves in the process. Then they guiltily complain about a husband who isn’t pulling his weight. The other group of women completely shut down. They turn off the physical and emotional intimacy in their marriage so they have the energy to do everything else. They pretend nothing is wrong, and accept this intimacy-free version of life as normal. I don’t know about you, but neither of those options sounds very fun to me. So Laura and I have spent months creating an alternative. We’ve put together  a series of powerful experiments for you to conduct in your marriage that are designed to get you more love, connection, and support… all while putting in less time and effort. Regardless of whether you’ve been married for 7 months or 70 years, you’re going to wake up next to a partner who wants to contribute more around the house, free up your time, support you emotionally, and be excited about doing it! Maybe you’ll even start to reconnect with that flirty… (and dare I say seductive?) side of yourself that might have gone into hibernation for a while. So, here’s what you’re gonna get when you join us in this month-long experiment: First, every week for 4 weeks you’ll get a dynamite LIVE lesson developed by me and Laura. These lessons are jam-packed with the information and tools that most people would pay hundreds of dollars in coaching or therapy to get from us. Next, we’re giving you 3 powerful experiments to test on your partner every week. These experiments will help you discover new and effective ways to create positive shifts in your partner’s behavior. Third, we’re going to give you access to our Epic Wives Facebook group where we’ll be holding you accountable, answering any questions you might have, and celebrating your wins with you. (Do you see how we’re giving you every piece of the Growth Ecosystem here? An inspiring goal, a community, and a system of accountability.) Now, those are the things that everybody gets… but I like to over-deliver. So I want to throw in some cool bonuses for taking action today! One of them is a special 1-hour training at the end of this one-month experience. The training will teach you what you can do to become an expert at successfully having hard conversations with your partner. The goal is to help you resolve the challenges that once took you days to recover from in hours… or even minutes. If you take what you learn from this training, you will get so good at managing conflicts that your marriage will never go into crisis mode where you feel like you need to go to therapy to save it… or worse… talk about divorce. We’re also going to be giving away amazing prizes for those who are active in the Epic Wives Experiment… like gift certificates to cleaning services, subscriptions to Disney+, and massages. And we’re not going to charge you hundreds or even thousands of dollars that other people would have to pay to get this very same information through therapy or coaching! It’s only $39 bucks! That’s less than my wife spent on Christmas candles this year. (Our house smells like a pine forest.) Click here if you are in, and sign up. If you have more questions, click here, and you can read up on all the details, including the “Good Guy Guarantee.” (If you participate in the Epic Wives Experiment, and you’re not feeling less stressed, and more excited about your marriage by the end, I’ll just refund you 100% of your money. I’m that confident that you’ll have an amazing experience that I’ve assumed all the risk here.) This is how I get people results in their marriage. I create the environment for them to flourish, then invite them to come take the plunge. Let’s be honest, if you don’t participate, you’ll probably think back to this email around Valentines day in February and wonder how much better your marriage could have been if you’d just taken the plunge. Let’s set up 2020 to be the best year of your marriage so far! See you in the Epic Wives Community! (And if you’re a husband, I hope I see your wife in there.) -Nate  

In this episodes the Dad's are separated by thousands of kilometers as the Blonski's are on vacation in Mexico. So Laura steps in and fills the gap in this hour long episode!

So Laura said she could do the bottle cap challenge, and she's looking for ideas of how to do it....

So Laura got asked this week by one of her boys if she was famous.

While many people would dream of taking their sabbatical in Barcelona, Laura Tobaruela left that city because she felt that if she stayed put, living this typical urban life, with a comfortable office job and apartment, she would regret it later. So Laura planned and set off on a sabbatical trip, even though it wasn’t a common thing to do within her culture. And even though the financial crisis that had gripped Spain made many people around her even more risk averse. Laura initially intended to travel for a year, yet continues her journey even now three and a half years later. Along the way she’s made many personal discoveries that have changed everything about how she views her future. In this interview, Laura talks about the deeper, more spiritual change that can come from stepping out of your known world and into a “parallel universe.” How a leap like this builds self confidence. Opens up new possibility. Unlocks your creativity. And reveals what you most value and how you want to live your life – and where. Show notes at www.lisahoashi.com. Follow us! Lisa Hoashi: @lisahoashi. Join the Leap Like Me Community on Facebook. Theme music by Far Pines Music.

Laura Lane has experienced tragedy throughout her life. At the age of nine, both her mother and little sister were killed in a car accident. Later in life, Laura lost her daughter to a rare form of brain cancer. However, despite these tough challenges in her life, Laura still finds ways to inspire and be a champion of change in her community. Find out more about what Laura does, and how you can step up in your community to positively impact the lives of others.  Key Takeaways: [3:25] Who is Laura and what does she do right now?  [5:10] Laura’s daughter, Celeste, was diagnosed with a very rare form of brain cancer.  [8:45] Laura realized right away that she couldn’t do this alone. She contacted inspiring figures, speakers, and mentors to help, and they did! [15:25] During this intense time, how was Laura keeping it together? [25:10] Celeste didn’t have much time left, and one of her last wishes was to meet Robbie Williams, Celine Dion, Anne Hathaway, and David Tennant. Laura sent a call out to her network, and over the next few days and weeks, they all called Celeste.  [29:40] Laura feels so blessed that so many strangers were ready to help her little girl.  [30:40] What kind of community service projects is Laura currently working on?  [41:50] After fundraising, Laura went to her community’s high school and asked the principal what she needed. “Running shoes,” she said. So Laura went to her local shoe store and ended up filling nine hockey bags (they’re bigger than army duffle bags) with new shoes for both elementary school and teenage kids.  [51:00] Laura shares a heartbreaking story about what happened days before she arrived to give away the shoes to this community.  [1:01:30] With so much going on, how does Laura keep such a positive attitude?    Mentioned in This Episode: Giving Back Podcast Laura Lane Laura Lane on LinkedIn Two Mothers, One Prayer LifeSuccess Consultants  

In December 2017, I called Laura Vanderkam to ask her what I needed to know about time tracking if I was going to attempt to do it. What's time tracking? It's exactly what it sounds like - keeping tabs on how you spend your time all day, every day, for as long as you want - and I was intrigued by the prospect of attempting to do it. After reading Vanderkam's book I Know How She Does It, I knew I wanted to track my time for at least a week to see what I could learn (hint: so much). One of my biggest takeaways was that by analyzing the data on how you do spend your time, you can make better-informed decisions about how you want to spend your time and how you're going to do that. When Vanderkam came out with her latest book, Off The Clock, I knew there was no better time to have her as a guest on our podcast, #WeGotGoals. We've interviewed some pretty hardcore goal-setters and getters in the past, and discussed anything from how someone might attempt to sell every cup of coffee in the entire world, to doing whatever it takes to become the fastest woman in the world. Vanderkam is a high achiever whose goals take a different spin: she led the goal setting conversation with what she calls "better than nothing goals" - not Big, Hairy, and Audacious, but incredibly powerful nonetheless. Case in point, Vanderkam has run at least one mile a day for more than 500 consecutive days. She talks about how that wouldn't have been possible if she'd set a goal to run a marathon or even to run 30 miles a week, but that one mile is "like nothing," she says, and she's really content with and proud of that goal and the way it makes her feel. Clearly, Vankderkam is a process-driven person versus an outcome-based goal setter, as proven by her three year time-tracking streak. Prior to writing I Know How She Does It, she set the big goal to track all of her time for one year. Turns out, she liked the accountability it gave her so much, she just kept going. And the lessons she learned over three years of tracking time - plus input from other case studies and experts - make up the newest addition to her collection as an author Off The Clock. What time tracking taught her All of this tracking has helped her as she sets goals and spends her time in two key ways: 1. She remembers how she spent her time more fondly and with gratitude: By looking over her own spreadsheets to reflect back on where the hours went, Vanderkam sees all the things she's done - something our brains don't tend to do without bias. Vanderkam notes that our brains have the tendency to remember the negative over the positive (a phenomenon that's been tested and proven), but she's able to reminisce on her past more fondly and strip some of those negative connotations away. 2. She's able to separate the days from one another: She also took notice of what habits she tends to fall into and asks herself, "How is today going to be different from other days?" Vanderkam does this because it helps her to expand time by making memories more, well, memorable. "When the brain thinks about time, its sense of memory perception is affected by how many memories you have in that unit of time," Vanderkam says. When we talk about time flying by, she continues, we're experiencing the shortcut our brain takes to group similar memories together. "So that's how life starts to disappear into these memory sinkholes." Sure, we need routines to help us make decisions quickly and efficiently, but what are we turning into a routine that would be more fun if we did something otherwise? Vanderkam encourages doing things differently, from trying something new to simply walking a different route to work to make your brain remember days differently and apart from each other.   Ready to hear all of her big goals? Listen to her on the full episode of #WeGotGoals on Apple Podcasts here. You'll hear the big goals she's outlined for the future and why she's still tracking her time down to the half-hour each and every day. If you like the show as much as we do, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave it a rating and a review it really does help. And stick around until the end of the episode, goal getters. We have real life goal getting to share from a listener.   Transcript: -------------------- C:Welcome to #WeGotGoals, a podcast by aSweatLife.com on which we talk to high achievers about their goals. I'm Jeana Anderson Cohen; with me, I have Maggie Umberger and Kristen Geil.   MU:Morning, Jeana.   KG:Hey Jeana.   JAC:Thanks for joining me ladies. Maggie, you did the podcast today and you interviewed Laura Vanderkam.   MU:I did. I interviewed Laura Vanderkam, who is a writer, an author, a speaker. She's written so many books that just the title alone makes you just think, I need to read this book. Recently she just finished off the clock and so it has just been released. She's a time management expert. She tracks her own time. She helps other people become more productive by analyzing how they spend their time and it's a really fascinating job that she has, that she's also turned into a career in multiple different facets. So companies work with her, she works with individuals and she, she tracks her time personally and kind of describes her experience doing that as well.   JAC:Now when you say time tracking, it gives me flashbacks to agency life, but she means it differently, right? Maggie?   MU:Yes and no. She tracks her time down to the 30 minute increment, which does remind me of agency life for having to remember who you're working with and what clients you're working on, all the way down to the quarter hour. But Laura tracks our time by analyzing where she spends her time with work, with her personal life and doing life admin things. She keeps the categories really broad, but it gives her information about really where she's spending her time and what her habits are and if she is aligning what her goals are with where she is spending her days.   JAC:Super interesting and she even gets right down to the sleep time, which you'll hear more about in the episode. I don't want to blow it for you. But Maggie, I know you tracked your time personally right around the New Year, so you have experience with this.   MU:I do, I got to interview her already for just a phone conversation and ask her how to go about starting to do this task because it seems pretty daunting at first, but she, she told me not to get too bogged down or in the weeds with it. I could keep it really general, but just to keep a log and I did it in my google calendar of how I'm spending my time. And it did a lot of things for me as in terms of showed me where I was spending more time than I thought. Sometimes I would say that I was completely bogged down with some assignment or some piece of work and then when I looked at where I was spending that time, sometimes it was just in the transition of getting from place to place and so it wasn't actually with that task or whatever it was.   MU:It's just a nice way to see where you're actually spending time and then the story you create around that. But it also helped me see where I could be a little bit more productive and so if I would put it in my calendar that I was going to do it. I actually did it during and I try to do that more often than not. But when I was doing that exercise, I was super accountable to myself by saying this is realistically going to take me 90 minutes and then I would make sure it took me 90 minutes and if I needed more time I would carve out a separate hour or whatever it was later in my week so that I could be really realistic about how long things were going to take me. I was checking more things off of my to-do list and I felt like I was actually doing the things I was said I was going to be doing.   KG:Maggie, Laura also mentioned something that I had never heard of before that she called better than nothing. Goals. Can you give us an idea of what that is?   MU:Yeah. So, and I also don't want to spoil it in the episode either, but we could have talked forever about just time tracking because it is really fascinating. But, uh, the idea of looking at time tracking and how it can help you set your goals is something that we kind of focus this episode on. She talks a little bit about those better than nothing goals. And one of those, um, goals that she has was just running a mile every day. She talks about it being almost like nothing. Like she could just slough it off and just that could, she could attain that goal no matter what. But if she set even a medium sized goal of trying to run x number of miles in a week, even that could get too daunting.   MU:Like forget setting a goal to run a half marathon or a marathon, like when we're busy, sometimes our bigger goals that we want to do start to feel like shoulds or need to dos. And then more like burdens. So the goal is that she keeps pretty small and almost like a no brainer achievement are the ones that she can feel really, really proud of every single day. And I totally resonated with that. Like if I think I can't make it to a workout class, but I can do 10 squats, that's better than nothing, and it's a nice, almost refreshing take on feeling accomplished.   JAC:One other concept that I thought was really interesting and I grabbed onto was the idea that time is sort of collapsible and expandable based on the novelty of your experiences, whether you're doing the same routine things every single day or whether you're going out of your way to experience new things. I always talk about how my life every day is a little bit different, so maybe we're living very long days around here, but can you talk a little bit about that, Maggie?   MU:Yes, absolutely. So Laura talks about how our brains condense things and make things a little bit more truncated in order for us to remember things in sort of blocks of time. And when we create habits that's really valuable for being efficient and for getting more things done. Habits are a very useful tool for us, but those habits can then lead to us doing very routine things that our brain starts to chunk together and that's where we start to have those thoughts like, where did the week go, where did the time go? And so she talks about just switching your routine ever so slightly, in big ways if you can, but even if it's just walking a different way to work, it's going to help your brain think differently about a routine thing and then it's going to actually create a little bit more opportunity for you to have memories of that time and so therefore your time becomes more valuable, more memorable. It was a different and unique take on the power of a routine. I think we all agree that they're important to have, but just thinking about how to make today a little different than yesterday and a little different than tomorrow places more value on the present moment.   KG:It sounds amazing and as someone who lives and dies by my planner, my google calendar, I cannot wait to learn more about Laura's tips. So here is Maggie with Laura.   JAC:And stick around listener for the end of the episode where you'll hear from real life goal getters and what they're achieving out there in the real world today.   MU:Welcome, Laura to the #WeGotGoals podcast. I am Maggie with aSweatLife and I'm so excited to get to talk to you today about not only the launch of your new book Off the Clock: Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done, but also about what we love to talk about on this podcast, which is going after and achieving really big goals and getting to talk to high achievers and entrepreneurs and CEOs in different industries about how they think and go after big goals. And so, so this is going to be a really, really fun conversation I feel, but thank you again for, for taking the time to be on the #WeGotGoals podcast.   LV:Thank you so much for having me.   MU:So I know this is gonna sound kind of funny, probably considering your line of work, but I always like to ask the question to our guests, how you spend your days just for some listeners at home who might not know about the time tracking work that you do.   LV:Yeah, so I’m, I write books on and I speak on the topic of time management and productivity. I pretty much work out of my home office most days. That's where I'm recording this from. I live outside Philadelphia. I get up in the morning, get my four kids breakfast and ready and all that good stuff. Three of them go off to school. I have a sitter for the youngest one and then I work during the day. My work is about how people spend their time and how they can spend it better. I probably travel once every week or two to go give speeches different places on the topic, but if I'm not speaking that I'm here writing books and articles and running a podcast and blog and all that good stuff. Kids see activities after school, dinner, homework, you know, all that good stuff. So that's pretty much my life.   MU:And so you've written, you've written many books, but the last book that just came out on the 29th of May I want to hear a little bit about what inspired you to, to talk about how people feel about time and their perceptions about time.   LV:Well, I've long been fascinated by why some people who seem to have a lot going on in their lives still feel very relaxed about time. You know, some people who are, who have a lot going on, run around like chickens with their heads cut off going, I'm so busy, I'm so busy. But some people just act like they have all the time in the world and I say, well, what is the difference? Why do some people feel calm about time while others feel stressed? And so for Off the Clock I decided to explore this question more deeply and I did some research on it too. I had 900 people with full time jobs who also had families track their time for a day, March 27, 2017, and then I asked them questions about how they felt about their time so that I could then compare the schedules of people who felt starved for time with those who felt like time was abundant and the strategies that I learned from those books are what make up the book Off the Clock.   MU:And I'm sure I could ask a gazillion questions just based on that little snippet, but one thing that really sticks out to me is the idea that I think it's prevalent that we think we have to be stressed for time or kind of like we don't have enough time and that kind of sense of urgency in order to feel productive or successful. Did you feel like that coming for, or based on your research or that you maybe saw based on seeing some people that felt more productive versus not?   LV:Yeah, I mean I think time is often just what we perceive it as and there's this idea that if we're not filling every minute we're not being productive, but in fact I think the opposite is often true. Having open space in your schedule is a great way to kind of invite opportunities into your life. If you think about it, you know, having a longer conversation with someone in the hallway might lead to a new way of working on a project or if somebody who reports to you has these great ideas, she wants to come and talk about like you don't want to be like, yeah, I got an eight-minute window at 4:12 come back then. You want to actually be able to have these conversations and I think not filling every available minute is what leaves time for these things to happen.   MU:Exactly. I think about the little time tracking exercise that I did when I actually got to speak with you before I did it, and doing a 30 minute, in in blocks of time of 30 minutes all week long, just for one week I noticed certain things that I was spending time on that I didn't think that I prioritized and somehow I did and then vice versa, the things I thought I prioritized, I didn't really spend time doing so there was some disconnect there, but I think I. I probably said that I was busier than I actually was based on looking at the time, looking at the data, so I think that's one piece of this book that I love getting to read the data behind it. Can you talk a little bit about some of the overarching themes that you saw based on pulling 900 studies per se?   LV:Yeah. No, I mean I think you're not alone in finding that how we perceive time as often not the way we actually spend our time. We all have stories we tell ourselves about where the time really goes and and those are often not based on real data, like not on reality. I don't know a better way to say this, that they're not rooted in reality at all. Which is what always strikes me as hilarious when you read these studies out there and be like, Americans are increasingly sleep deprived. Well where did that number come from? Well you asked a bunch of people how much they think they sleep on a typical night. Well, what is a typical night? Did they actually record it or is that what they thought they slept? Are they remembering like the worst night in the last week or the best night? Are they thinking Tuesday night? Are they thinking Saturday night? Like what? What is this? And and and in fact when you have people keep track of it, like the Americant Time Use Survey, which is this huge study that has thousands of Americans track their time rolling through the year finds that in fact the amount of sleep Americans is getting is going up. It has risen by in a statistically significant amount over the past 15 years. You never read that anywhere like you never actually hear people say, whoa, actually, we're sleeping more than we were in the past, which is actually true. Yet we prefer the story of like, oh, we're increasingly sleep deprived. Anyway. A little bit of my own tangent on this because I, you know, I think that's so much of what we talk about in our modern society of time is not actually based on data. It is based on what people think they do with their time and it is not true.   LV:That's it. Going back to my 900 people tracking their time. I mean, there's some fascinating things, I mean, one is that, you know, people who are intentional about their time, who actually think about what they want to do before they are in that unit of time, are far more likely to make progress on their goals. I mean, that doesn't seem very surprising when you think about it, but I think a lot of people just sort of roll around with time I mean it keeps passing whether we think about how we spend it or not. And so like eventually you're gonna be on the other side of tomorrow. Like tomorrow will have come and tomorrow will have gone. But if you think about how you would like to spend tomorrow, that vastly increases the chances that tomorrow is spent doing things you care about. So not, not surprising, but uh, but you can see that in, in, in how people spend their time.   LV:You know, kind of an interesting phenomenon that is more unexpected is, is that people who felt like they had a lot of time, were far more likely to do kind of fun interesting out of the ordinary things on the March Monday that I had them record. I mean we're talking like a normal March Monday and the people with the biggest highest time perception scores were doing stuff like going to salsa dancing lessons on Monday night and you know, on some of them might say, well, oh, once you put commitments into your time, then you have less time because you've filled your time with stuff and to a degree that's true if you're filling your time with things you don't actually want to be doing. But when you fill your time with things that you want to do and that you find interesting and exciting and novel and all that, you actually feel like you have more time because in your mind you become the kind of person who can go to salsa dancing lessons on a Monday night and clearly you must be the kind of person who has time for that. And so you feel like you have time for the things that matter to you. So I found that kind of interesting too.   MU: That is so fascinating because it really is all about our perception and this kind of leads into the conversation about goals, which is something that we're pretty obsessed with a aSweatLife thinking not just about fitness goals, but any type of goal that you go after. I'm interested to know. I want to get to our big question that I'll ask you, but based on your research and the the countless hours that you've spent studying sort of the process by which people live, has it, does it make you think one way or another about setting goals?   LV:Well, I explore the topic of goal setting a little bit in Off the Clock. I think often the way people go about setting goals is problematic. We have a tendency to focus on outcomes, which makes sense on some level. I mean that's what you kind of. I mean that seems like what a good goal would be. Like I want to, you know, run a mile in 7 minutes or I want to lose 15 pounds or I want to bench press x amount of pounds or whatever it is, right? They seem like very good ways to set goals. They're specific, they're measurable. The issue is that, you know, outcomes can often be achieved by many means, some of which are good and some of which are not. I mean the quickest way to lose 10 pounds is to get the stomach flu, but I don't really recommend it.   LV:And that's not, that's not what you really meant. Like hopefully the, the reason to lose 10 pounds is that it's, it's part of a healthier lifestyle that you are taking care of your body in great ways and so I think focusing more on process goals is better, because those tend to be within your control and when you focus on things that are within your control, you have more of a sense of agency and that's just more motivational in general. I also think that setting very small process goals to the point where I call them like better than nothing goals. They're just better than nothing. They're not huge, but they're better than nothing. Also increases the chances that we stick with them. So. So one example is I've actually been running every day since December 24, 2016, so I've run at least a mile every day, for it's over 500 days now.   MU:Oh my gosh.   LV:If I had, if I had set a goal of saying like, Oh, I need to run three miles every day or five miles every day, there's no way I would've stuck with it, right? And in fact, if I'd even set a goal probably saying like 30 miles a week or something, I wouldn't have stuck with it. But one mile is like nothing, right. You know, it's, it's not that much. I can run it in 10 minutes or less, like I can run it in eight minutes if I'm running fast, but it's, you know, so once I normally run one mile, I'm fine to keep going. It's just saying, okay, well I'm just going to run that. Like it's just a few minutes, I'll run it and then it can go on my day. I can always find 10 minutes in my life to, to run. So, you know, setting a very small goal means I don't feel any resistance to sticking with it and that's what's made it possible to run more than 500 days in a row now.   MU:A small tangential question to that. By running those one mile a day, like making that habit for yourself, did it lead you to setting a goal, like since I already run every day, maybe I'll train for this half marathon? Did it lead to bigger goals?   LV:I don't know that it has per se. I mean partly because I've done races in the past and one of the things I was doing with this daily goal is kind of getting away from the whole race thing. So I was a bit burnt out on that. I can say that since I've started running a mile a day, I’m definitely faster. I've been able to run faster miles. Uh, I recently did a 10 mile race that it was just, I was running with somebody else, so I was running a little bit slower than I would have, but I felt like at the end of it I could have kept going for quite a ways. I mean, it's interesting to run a race and, and feel very strong through it, you know, and I can tell things like that with, with the running, you know, I mean maybe I'll set some other goals for right now. I think I'm happy with a mile a day. I don't know that I need to pile onto that one.   MU:Yeah, no, I, that's, that's a fantastic goal. So getting onto the big question that we ask all of our guests is what is one big goal, whether it's this year or just in the past that you've accomplished and why was it important to you slash how did you get there?   LV:Well, I certainly wanted to write books in my life. I've always wanted to be a writer and I am. And so that's pretty cool and sometimes when I have some issues with like, oh, things aren't going how I want or whatever, you know, I remind myself of that, like I could be doing something totally different with my life that I don't want to be doing, and in fact that I'm getting to write as a living is pretty cool. So I think reminding yourself of these goals that you have achieved can be very helpful for those moments we all have when we're feeling a little bit down on life in general.   MU:I completely agree with that. I think it's also very compelling for me to hear you talk about kind of acknowledging your accomplishments because that is in essence kind of using the data that you've been collecting for more than just seeing the data like you, you're, you're using it in your real life as well to notice those accomplishments along the way.   LV:One of the great things about tracking my time and you're like, wow, okay, so this is one of these kind of funny women. She runs a mile a day, she tracks all of her time, like, you know, okay, I'm a bit of a freak on some of these tracking things, but I, I have tracked my time in half hour blocks for three years at this point. Not that anyone else needs to do that. I do think tracking a week in life is very useful just to see where the time goes, but I have one of the best things about is not just saying, oh well I have time here. I could do x, y, or Z. I also get to look back on these logs and say like, Oh, you know, life, life is pretty good. Like I might feel like, oh, what am I actually doing with myself? And then I look back on a log and be like, wow, that's pretty cool. You know, in one week I gave two speeches and wrote this and also took my kids to an amusement park and went for a good dinner this place, and saw an art museum. I'm like, wow, that's kind of a lot to happen in one week. And I think looking back on my time logs reminds of those sorts of things, that life isn't just whatever your current annoyance is. Um, it's a bit broader than that.   MU:Absolutely. I think there's, I think it's common for us to complain if there, if there's a reason to complain versus think about the good and just project the good and then kind of bring in, bring in more good into your life. It's, it's easier to just lean on something that wasn't so great versus boasting about what is great. But that's what's so cool about the exercise of time tracking because it, it doesn't lie, it is what it is right in front of you.   LV:The brain naturally focuses on the negative. I mean that's just sort of an assumed state in life. And so I think you have to be very conscious of calling your attention to good things because you know, bad stuff will, will kick you in the face, but a good stuff, not so much.   LV:How, how did you, or at what point did you decide to start tracking your time? Was it based off of seeing other accomplished people? Do it or just a curiosity?   LV:Well, I think originally it was more a curiosity and because I've been writing about time management for so long and then one of the exercises I always have people do is to track their time like I, you know, had had hundreds of people track their time over the years and I had tracked various weeks here and there, you know, fair play, right? If I'm asking other people to do what I should do it as well. But, but what happened in April of 2015 as I just had this idea, well what if I undertake this project of trying to track my time for a year is what my original goal was. And it was, I knew it was going to be kind of a busy year. I had a different book coming out then it was called I Know How She Does It in June of 2015. I had also just had my fourth child in January of 2015.   LV:So it was it, you know, and it was gonna be an interesting year in terms of adjusting to having life with four kids, having this book come out, my speaking career was kind of taking off, so lots of lots of exciting things going on and I wanted to see, well what does life really look like on this sort of half hour by hour basis? So I started tracking continuously and then just kept going. I mean I got into a rhythm of it. It doesn't really take me much time. It takes me about three minutes a day. I check in maybe three or four times during the day and write down what I've done since the last time I checked in. At the end of the week. I look over the week and then save it and then I've probably every six months or so I do a bigger, deeper dive into my time log, see where the time has gone. Add up different categories, things like that, work, sleep, whatever time in the car, housework, doing whatever it is I'm doing.   LV:So you know, every, every six months or so, add that up and get the data on that. I guess I just, I wanted to see where the time went and I knew obviously I could write about it being a time management person I could probably turn it into something and I, I did and it was actually a great the project bore a lot of fruit for me, which is, which is wonderful in terms of my professional life, but I found it so interesting that I just kept going and so, you know, in Off the Clock I talk about basically three years of time tracking data and talk about what other people have learned as well.   MU:And, and you also traveled to speak, as you said, and work with companies. I'm talking about productivity and time management and so I'm curious to know maybe in that setting when you're thinking about just the productivity at work and your work life, what are some big misconceptions that companies or people have about productivity at work?   LV:Well, I think one of the worst things that happens is people start to associate work with the term scheduled meeting. Having these two become sort of intertwined with each other and, and it's very easy for companies to sort of slip into this issue of people being booked in constant meetings. Obviously other people have stuff that we need to work with and they have ideas they have, you know, they help us with projects and they don't tend to show up at our desk at the exact moment that we want them to. So hence you schedule meetings. I mean there are reasons that this happens, but when, when people start packing their schedules too tightly, you know, a, everything runs over and so, so then nothing is ever happening when it's supposed to happen. People don't just call each other because they feel like you need to have a scheduled meeting so then you're waiting for two days to get on somebody's calendar to just get a very quick answer for something that probably didn't need to happen anyway.   LV:Like people don't have space in their calendars to deal with things that come up because they're already so packed in. And so, you know, I think you really have to push back against it. The first question should always be not like, oh, are you free to have a meeting then? It’s like, well, do we actually need to meet? And so if people can start thinking about that question first or this, could we just have a two minute conversation right now and solve this issue? Like why do we need to have a meeting? Or do all these people need to be in this room for absolutely every single minute of this meeting and if not like, well why are they there? Are people being able to multitask while they're on this conference call? If so, then they probably don't need to be on the call because their presence wasn't required. All of these are good questions to ask. I think, you know, we can all waste our own time and that's fine, but when you get six people in a room and you're wasting all of their time, that starts to get expensive pretty fast. So treating time a wee bit more preciously would be a major breakthrough for a lot of places.   MU:And, and I hear you talk about, you know, time is money from, from a company or a corporate perspective, but also those realizations or kind of questions to ask apply to individuals as well. And I think about how people go after goals and then are not sure why they're not getting there and probably taking inventory and getting that real time feedback, analyzing like what are you actually doing with your time? Could I be spending it a little bit differently? Is it going in the direction towards where I want to be heading? Can yield faster, more productive results.   LV:Oh definitely. Um, yeah, I think we all need to be aware of where our time goes and when you are aware of where it's going and then you ask what you would like to spend your time doing, you vastly increase the chances that that is what you actually spend your time doing.   MU:And I love that question. Like where, how do I want to be spending my time? And another question that you pose in off the clock is how is today going to be different from other days, which really spoke to me. Can you, can you talk a little bit more about, I guess the power behind asking questions like that and if there are other ones that you typically ask yourself?   LV:Yeah, I mean the reason to ask why is today different from other days is that adult life winds up having a high degree of similarity day today. You know, if you think about when you were a kid and you're experiencing a lot of firsts and new things and you're like a teenager or something, you have a lot of memories of this time because of that novelty. The brain, when it thinks about time, its sense of time perception is affected by how many memories you have of that unit of time. So if you think about like the first day of a vacation to somewhere interesting, it seems very long because your brain is taking in all this new information. It doesn't know what of it is important. So it's trying to remember all of it and that makes time seem a lot faster than if you're just doing the same thing day in, day out.   LV:I mean, if you've commuted to work in the same way for the past like 500 days, you're not—your brain is that remembering each of those 500 days of sort of just remembers one day and and so that's how life starts to disappear into these memory sinkholes that whole years pass by without seeming very different from each other. So, you know, some of this is inevitable. I mean, I'm not saying you need to commute 500 different ways to work because that's not really gonna happen. But if you ask yourself this question, how is today different from other days, then that can nudge you to think about how I could make today slightly more memorable. Like could I plan in some mini adventure into my day? Like let's say you always walk by some little stationery store on your way into work from the parking garage.   LV:And you’re like, oh, I should stop there sometime. Well, why don't you do it? Go in there, explore it, see maybe you'll find something really cool or, you know, grab your colleagues and go have a picnic lunch somewhere. Um, or maybe you go for a bike ride on that trail you've been eyeing after work or try a new restaurant or something, you know, there's just a million ways you could do little tiny adventures into your life or put in some sort of emotional intensity like speak to someone you've been meaning to speak to and actually have a good conversation with them. But doing these things makes a day memorable and when you have more memories of a day, then time seems to expand and that's what keeps time some sort of slipping through our fingers.   MU:That's so, so fascinating to me because that is when I think about wanting to achieve big things, ultimately it's every single day that would get me there and doing something like that means everyday becomes more meaningful. Like you say, like you talk about the process being the ultimate goal, setting yourself up for success when you elevate the process. So I love that because it makes it tangible. It makes it doable every single day.   LV:Yeah. No, I think that that, I mean we can't do everything every single day, but certainly how we live our daily lives is important.   MU:So this leads me to the next big question. What is a big goal now that you want to go after in the future or that you are going after and how do you plan on getting there?   LV:Well, let's see. I mean I do set goals. I think one interesting goal that I'm trying to think about is a philanthropic goal and I know that sounds funny, like I'm not, you know, Bill Gates here, but we could all be more intentional about our charitable giving. Like, what we give money to and what we're hoping to do with it and I would like to spend some time this year thinking about that. I have an interest in new music and I have been a donor for a choir I was part of for years in New York. I left New York but I've still donated money to it that runs a competition for young composers that comes up with new music every year and I've enjoyed doing that and I'd like to do more of that. I'd like to have some more new music come to be, new choral music come to be and you know, it's generally less expensive than you might think to support this sort of thing, but you know, being a real patron of the arts in that sense, would be cool. I want to think about how I want to go about doing that.   MU:Very cool. So, so I want to make sure that people know how, how they can find you. Not only can they now buy your book, Off the Clock, Feel Less Busy While Getting More Done. They can listen to your podcast, Best of Both Worlds. And then how else can people find you and what do you want them to know about all of these different channels?   LV:Uh, yes. You can come find me at my website, LauraVanderkam.com. Listen to my podcast, the Best of Both Worlds and the check out my time management books like Off the Clock, which is recently out now on May 29 and the others as well.   MU:And if people want to start time tracking, you have some sources for them to go about this process on your website too.   LV:Yeah, if you come to my website, you can fill out the subscription form. I'll mail you a time log. You can do that. You can also just Google Vanderkam manage your time if you want to find it directly. But yeah, you can download these timesheets. Use the 30-minute log, which is what I do. The 15-minute log is also there. Some people like to get a little bit more granular on their time tracking details. So yeah, no, I think it's really fascinating to see where the time goes and once you do you can decide what you like, what you don’t; celebrate what's working and maybe change things that aren't.   MU:I love it. Thank you so much for spending the time, the 30 minutes of precious time on your calendar to speak with me for the podcast. It was, it was a wonderful conversation.   LV:Well thank you so much.   CK:Hey, goal-getters! This is co host and producer Cindy Kuzma here. Just checking into the to know that we are once again bringing you a goal from one of you, a goal-getter out in the community, this one we recorded live at the SweatWorkingWeek Michelob Ultra Fitness Festival last month, and hey, if you'd like to hear about your goal, if you have one in mind or one that you've accomplished or one that you're setting your sights on and you want to tell us about it, we would love to have you as part of this podcast. So here's what you can do. You can record a quick audio memo on your iphone, android, whatever kind of phone you have, and email it to me, cindy@asweatlife.com, and you could be on this very podcast. Just say your name, where you're from, and then tell us about your goal. Thank you so much for listening and here is one of your goals.   M:My name is Meg, I'm from St Louis, but I've lived in Chicago for just over two years and a big goal that I have for the future that I'm currently working on is to really dive into fitness and wellness as more of a career path and something that I'm doing currently is I'm studying for my NASM certification, which hopefully I will be certified very soon and then from there just doing more and more events like this, networking with people, meeting with lots of likeminded individuals in both of the industries of wellness and fitness and just learning as much as I can and hopefully eventually creating a client base and just helping people as much as I can with my knowledge and growing knowledge and fitness and nutrition and holistic wellness.   CK:This podcast is produced by me, Cindy Kuzma, and it's another thing that's better with friends, so please share it with yours. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and while you're there, please leave us a rating or review. Special thanks to J. Mano for our theme music; to our guest this week, Laura Vanderkam; and to Tech Nexus for the recording studio.

Laura Aalto is the recently appointed CEO of Helsinki Marketing. Helsinki is of course the home of Helsinki Design Week, but also a town which is getting more and more recognition as a business and cultural hub and as a travel destination. Laura may be new to her current job, but she has worked for cultural design and marketing organizations in urban context for years. Currently the City of Helsinki is renewing its marketing effort and has high hopes for the future. So Laura is definitely in the right place at the right time with the right skill set.   Laura sees that Helsinki is going through the biggest transformation of its history. She believes that the activities and events create a modern livable city. How does City of Helsinki try to get citizens involved in co-designing the city? In this episode Laura also tells us why design is an exceptional tool to recreate the city, how is design in the very core of marketing Helsinki and why she is so impressed by Istanbul.

Highlights Feature: Orville Wright on winning the war with air power |@ 01:15 Feature: James Higgs Balloon Observer |@ 03:30 Guest: Mike Shuster on GAS |@ 07:30 Guests: Richard Rubin & Jonathan Bratten on building a national army |@ 12:00 Event: William C. Gorgas and the Great War in Tuscaloosa, AL |@ 19:00 Guest: Dr. Libby O’Connell about the history of food |@ 20:30 Feature: introducing the 100 Cities / 100 Memorials Review Committee |@ 27:00 Guest: David Craig on the Maryland WW1 Centennial Commemoration |@ 30:15 Guest: Laura Vogt on the National WWI Museum and Memorial in KC |@ 36:00 Buzz: Facebook post on the Kodak VPK - vest pocket camera |@ 42:00 Shout out: to the commission’s summer of 2017 interns |@ 44:00 and more... ----more---- Opening Welcome to World War 1 centennial News - It’s about WW1 news 100 years ago this week  - and it’s about WW1 News NOW - news and updates about the centennial and the commemoration.   Today is July 26th, 2017 and this week we joined by Mike Shuster from the great war project blog, The Storyteller and the Historian, Richard Rubin and Jonathan Bratten  -  Dr. Libby O’Connell - US WW1 Centennial Commissioner and historian and author  - David Craig, Executive Director of the Maryland World War I Centennial Commission- and Lora Vogt, Curator of Education at the National WW1 Museum and Memorial in Kansas City.   WW1 Centennial News is brought to you by the U.S. World War I Centennial Commission and the Pritzker Military Museum and Library. I’m Theo Mayer - the Chief Technologist for the World War One Centennial Commission and your host. World War One THEN 100 Year Ago This Week [SOUND TRANSITION] Welcome! We have moved back in time 100 years. It’s the week of July 23rd, 1917 This week 100 years ago - On Tuesday July 24, 1917 A massive $640,000,000 aviation bill passes in both the House and the Senate is sent to the President for signature. This is one of the largest appropriation for a single idea that the US has ever made - and it passes congress with little to no objection - This is in no small part - because there are so many advocates that believe this incredible new technology of flying machines can be pivotal in the war. As written in the “Official Bulletin”, the government war gazette published by George Creel, President Wilson’s propaganda chief…   Mr. Orville Wright declares that: When my brother and I built and flew the first man-carrying machine [14 years ago], we thought that we were introducing into the world an invention which would make further wars…  practically impossible. Nevertheless, the world [now] finds itself in the- greatest war in history. I say that neither side has been able to win on account of the part - the airplane has played. Both sides know exactly what the other is doing. The two sides are apparently nearly equal in aerial equipment, and unless present conditions can be changed the war will continue for years.   "However;  if the allies' armies are equipped with such a number of airplanes as to keep the enemy planes entirely back of the line, so that they are unable to direct gunfire or to observe the movement of the allied troops—in other words, if the enemy's eyes can be put out —it will be possible to end the war. And this is not taking into account what might be done by bombing German sources of munition and supplies. But to end the war quickly and cheaply, the supremacy In the air must be so complete as to entirely blind the enemy. I believe that by no other method can the war be ended with so little loss of life and property." And 100 years ago this week, the United States makes a $640,000,000 bet that this is so. [SOUND EFFECT] War in the Sky This leads us directly into our War In The Sky segments where we want to introduce you to James Allen Higgs Jr., a native of Raleigh and a two-time graduate of the North Carolina College for Agriculture and Mechanic Arts, today the North Carolina University’s College of Engineering. James Higgs signed up for duty at the mature age of 29, intent on going to war. He was a slight fellow of 5 feet, 5 1/2 inches, weighing only 120 pounds. His greatest ambition, he said just before his graduation, was “to grow.” Higgs felt that if he signed up as an infantryman, he likely would not survive more than a few days in the trenches. In an interview in 1968 he said: “I was a little guy, and I couldn’t fancy myself swapping bayonet thrusts with those big Germans, so when the call went out to be balloon observers, I volunteered. “They took us to Washington and put us in a machine and spun us around until we were thoroughly dizzy, then measured the time it took to regain our equilibrium. I was one of the winners.” Being a “balloon spy,” as he was often called, was a position unique to the Civil War and World War I. Every day, from sunrise to sunset, it was Higgs’ assignment to crawl into a two-man basket tethered by cable to the front of a truck. Armed with binoculars, topographical maps and a telephone, he would fly high (up to 5,000 feet) over the battlefield and report troop activity to his commanders on the ground. Usually, he was with a French observer who was relaying similar information to his superiors. As if flying unprotected over the battlefield wasn’t dangerous enough, the sausage-shaped gasbags were filled with highly flammable hydrogen, making them susceptible to fires started by the hot rounds coming from guns below. They were sitting-ducks and favorite targets for the biplanes that attacked from behind the clouds overhead. Four times over the course of four months, Higgs was shot down, jumping out of the basket and praying that the parachute stuffed on the outside of the balloon basket and harnessed to his back would deploy. It was anything but a peaceful trip to the ground. Higgs noted: “We were wearing parachute harnesses with a rope attached to the ‘chute that was stuffed into a bag hanging outside the basket. Our weight would pull the ‘chutes out of the bags. They were supposed to open when we dropped 300 feet. It takes nearly five seconds to fall 300 feet from a standing start, and that is an awefully long time to wonder whether you are going to live or die. “The parachute opened with a considerable jolt, but it was a very pleasant feeling.” Higgs’ got rewarded for jumping out of a burning and falling balloon. Each time, he was awarded 48 hours of leave in Paris to “settle his nerves and get ready to go back up again.” Which he did all the way up to Nov. 11, 1918, when the bells of Paris signaled armistice between the warring nations.   “The end was an amazing thing,” Higgs said. “I had been hearing guns roaring around and under me, and sometimes, enemy shells and bombs bursting in our camp, for almost a year,”. “THEN --- Sharp at the stroke of 11am , on November 11, they all just stopped. There were no birds or animals in the war zones to make the usual noises, and no machines moved. “I found myself listening for just any sound, but there was none.” This story comes from the Alumni News section of North Carolina State’s College of Engineering newspaper. The link to the full article is in the podcast notes below link:https://www.engr.ncsu.edu/news/2017/05/26/above-the-battlefields-of-world-war-i/ [SOUND EFFECT] Great War Project Now we are joined by Mike shuster, former NPR correspondent and curator for the Great War Project blog. We ran a quick featurette in our Social media BUZZ section with Katherine Akey about this subject - Today Mike is here with a more in-depth look at one of the great horrors of this war  - GAS Welcome Mike [Mike Shuster] Thank you Mike. That was Mike Shuster from the Great War Project blog. LINK:http://greatwarproject.org/2017/07/23/gas-gas-quick-boys/   [SOUND EFFECT] The Great War Channel For videos about WW1, we invite you to check out the Great War Channel on Youtube -  They are into their 4th season making great informative videos about the war.   This week’s new episodes include: A feature story - Tunnel warfare during WW1 100 years ago this week - July days in Petrograd - Blood on the Nevsky Prospect And a hardware piece - British Rifles in WW1 Follow the link in the podcast notes or search for “the great war” on youtube. Link: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar [SOUND EFFECT] Storyteller and the Historian To wrap up our history section on WW1 Centennial News, we welcome our intrepid duo - the storyteller and the historian Richard Rubin and Jonathan Bratten who are going to explore some of the challenges with building a really big army - really, really fast!   [RUN SEGMENT]   Thank you gentlemen! That was - the StoryTeller - Richard Rubin and The Historian - Jonathan Bratten talking about building the national army in 1917. The Storyteller and the Historian is now a full hour long monthly podcast. Look for it on iTunes and libsyn or follow the link in the podcast notes.   Link: http://storytellerandhistorian.libsyn.com   World War One NOW [SOUND TRANSITION]   We have moved forward into the present with WW1 Centennial News NOW  - News about the centennial and the commemoration. [SOUND EFFECT] Commission News In Commission news - this past week we participated in the Veterans of Foreign Wars’ 118th National Convention in New Orleans which ran from July 22 to the 26th. Our own David Hamon went down to the Big Easy to man a commission booth and meet with members of this great veterans’ organization. When we spoke with David, he told us that it has been a “QUOTE” Extremely positive and oft times emotional experience to connect with these vets and their families from around the country.” US WW1 Centennial Commissioner Edwin Fountain was asked to speak at the event and addressed the membership of this veterans organization which has been such a great friend to the commission. The VFW also maintains a specific WW1 Centennial website at ww1cc.org/vfw  and you can learn more about the VFW’s national event by following the link in the podcast notes. Link: https://www.vfw.org/-/media/VFWSite/Files/News-and-Publications/Events/118th-Convention/2017-NOLA-SOE.pdf?la=en_ Activities and Events [SOUND EFFECT] Next we are going to give you our upcoming “event pick” of the week selected from the U.S. National WW1 Centennial Events Register at WW1CC.org/events ---- where we are compiling and recording the WW1 Commemoration events from around the country. Not just those from major venues and museums but also local events - showing how the Centennial Commemoration of the war that changed the world is playing out all over the country. For example, this week we picked an event in Tuscaloosa Alabama! The University of Alabama has an exhibit on view through September 29th called “William C. Gorgas and the Great War”. The exhibit features the story and impact of William Gorgas, a physician and the 22nd Surgeon General of the US Army, serving in that role from 1914-1918 - throughout the war years. The exhibit is at the restored family home of William Gorgas on the University of Alabama campus. The Gorgas House Museum serves as an active community resource, committed to “learning” through exhibition, education, and social engagement. See the link in the podcast notes to learn more. We invite YOU and your organizations to submit your own WW1 events to the National Events Register at ww1cc.org/events. Click the big red button and get your commemorative event recorded for posterity. link:http://ww1cc.org/events http://gorgashouse.ua.edu/exhibitions/ http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/commemorate/event-map-system/eventdetail/23695/william-c-gorgas-and-the-great-war.html [SOUND EFFECT] Interview with Dr. Libby O’Connell Joining us now is Dr. Libby O’connell - a most interesting person! Dr. O’connell was the chief historian at the History Channel, she is a US WW1 Centennial Commissioner, and recently released a history book about… American Food! The American Plate: A Culinary History in 100 Bites - has been lauded by the New York Post as Required Reading and it’s an Entertainment Weekly Top 3 Must-Reads! Libby - welcome - Nice to have you here! [so Libby - I had no idea…  Food? ] [ OK - so let’s get topical - When I think of WW1 and food - I think of rationing and propaganda - what was happening to the american plate in those years?] [Libby, your book is filled with fun facts - like that the first graham crackers were designed to reduce sexual desire… why we use the term “buck” mean a dollar and so on… what are some of the fun - turn of the century - American food facts?] [Commissioner O’Connell - I have just had the pleasure of meeting a whole other side of you! - thank you!] That was US WW1 Centennial Commissioner Dr. Libby O’Connell, author of the new book - The American Plate: A Culinary History in 100 bites. Learn more about Dr. Libby O’connell and about her new book by following the links in the podcast notes. Links:https://www.amazon.com/American-Plate-Culinary-History-Bites/dp/1492609862/ref=la_B00MS8WQ5Y_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1500920650&sr=1-1 http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/competition-officials/governance-group-dr-libby-o-connell.html http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/index.php/about/the-commission.html 100 Cities/100 Memorials [SOUND EFFECT] 100 Cities - 100 Memorials - that is the name of a program we have here at the WW1 Centennial Commission. You see, at the end of World War I, thousands of war memorials of every size were built in local communities across the country to honor and commemorate the service and sacrifice of their local sons and daughters. Over the century, exposure to the elements, neglect and even vandalism have taken their toll on these national treasures.   So on July 15, 2016 - a year ago - the  World War One Centennial Commission and the Pritzker Military Museum & Library teamed up and launched this national matching grant challenge to inspire community action and to seed the rescue of these memorials.   A year later - this month on July 15, 2017 - the grant application period ended and all submission were received. Now - to evaluate the submissions -  a Review Committee has been assembled. They read, review and rate the submissions based on common evaluation rubric. The Committee will then make recommendations to the program leadership on awarding  projects matching grants. Their recommendations will go to the program leadership in late August. We are proud to announce the members of the 100 Cities / 100 Memorials Review Committee. They include: US WWI Centennial Commissioner John Monahan from the American Legion US WWI Centennial Commissioner Dr. Matthew Naylor from the National World War I Museum and Memorial in Kansas City CPT Lynn Rolf who is with the VFW - The  Veterans of Foreign Wars Donna Crisp  who is with the DAR - The Daughter of the American Revolution Michael Knapp who is with the ABMC - The American Battle Monuments Commission Dr. Mark Levitch - with National Gallery of Art, and founder of the World War I Memorial Inventory Project Eugene P. Hough - Executive Director of Saving Hallowed Ground And our own Joe Weishaar the winning designer for the National WWI Memorial at Pershing Park in Washington DC The members of this amazing group have volunteered their precious time to help us review and evaluate the submissions and we thank them. But most of all we need to give a huge shout out to the teams that have taken on these restoration and conservation projects.   These projects are a really big deal that require research, community interaction, permissions from cities and counties, plans, schedules, budgets, fund raising, partnerships - it’s a huge dedication from each submitting team. The scope, the quality, variety, and most of all the deeply held commitment that these submitting teams have demonstrated is wonderful and honestly when you read them often quite humbling. We want to thank and congratulate every submitting team on the fantastic projects that they have presented us with. We will be profiling the submitting teams and their projects on the show over the coming months - BUT you can learn more about the program right now - at ww1cc.org/100memorials or follow the link in the podcast notes. Updates From The States [SOUND EFFECT] Maryland: Interview with David Craig This week for our updates from the states - we are profiling Maryland. With us today is David Craig the Executive Director of the Maryland World War I Centennial Commission to talk to us about the Centennial commemoration in The Old Line State. home of Annapolis and the Ghost Fleet of Mallows Bay… Welcome David! [exchange greetings] [David - you guys have been busy in Maryland with commemoration activities - Tell us about the commission and what you're up to!] Thank you. That was David Craig the Executive Director of the Maryland World War I Centennial Commission Learn more at ww1cc.org/maryland all lower case or by following the links in the podcast notes. link:http://www.worldwar1centennial.org/maryland   Education [SOUND EFFECT] Interview with Lora Vogt There is a wonderful WW1 Arrival destination in Kansa City - It is the National World War 1 Museum and Memorial. Joining us now is Laura Vogt - their Curator of Educations Welcome Laura! [Laura I have had the pleasure of being at the WW1 Museum and Memorial several times now and it is truly a special place - can you tell us a bit about it…] [So Laura - as a national nexus for WW1 you have a lot of program including educational programs - tell us about that?] Thank you Laura - That was Laura Vogt - the Curator of Education for the National WW1 Museum and Memorial in Kansas City. Their web site is full of great information and resources. Follow the link in the podcasts notes - and if you DO get to Kansas City - wipe that BBQ off your fingers - and face - and get over to the National World War 1 Museum and Memorial for an afternoon you won’t forget! Link:https://www.theworldwar.org/ https://www.theworldwar.org/learn/educators-students https://www.theworldwar.org/education The Buzz - WW1 in Social Media Posts [SOUND EFFECT] That brings us to the buzz - the centennial of WW1 this week in social media with Katherine Akey - Katherine - what do you have for us this week? Kodak and the Democratization of Photography in WW1 A new camera makes its way onto the battlefields in ww1 link:http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/interviews/vest-pocket-kodak-book-107481 Thank you Katherine. Shout Out Just before we close we want to thank and congratulate the commission’s Summer of 2017 interns! This year - 15 brilliant, dedicated college students joined us over the past weeks. Their work, commitment, quality, focus and dedication has made a real impact on us here at the US WW1 Centennial Commission and on the centennial commemoration in general. We want to give a BIG shout out to: Alyssa Carter from Lubbock Christian University Matt Costas from Georgetown University Samantha Marie Ensenat from Florida International University Aaron Gladstone from University of Maryland, College Park Shelbey Lisko from University of Central Arkansas Drew Lorelli from Old Dominion University Daniel MacManus from George Washington University Nathalie Nguyen (Nat-a-lie New-When) from George Mason University Josh Norton from Ulster University, Northern Ireland Lorenzo Rodriguez  from Florida International University Ben Sonnenberg from University of Minnesota Duluth Michael Stahler from Temple University Julia Suchanek from Lycoming College Alice Valley from Quinnipiac University AND Elliot Warren from George Washington University We thank you - and you need to know that you made a real difference in commemorating the war that changed the world - We hope your time with us has enriched your lives and your careers - From everyone at the commission a simple, heartfelt -  THANK YOU. Closing And that is WW1 Centennial News for this week. We want to thank our guests: Mike Shuster from the Great War Project blog and his post about Gas Warfare, Richard Rubin and Jonathan Bratten and their StoryTeller and the Historian segment on building up and training the US Forces Dr. Libby O’Connell, WW1 Centennial Commissioner and Historian speaking to us about food history David Craig, Executive Director of the Maryland World War I Centennial Commission speaking with us about centennial commemorations in Maryland Lora Vogt, Curator of education at the National WW1 Museum and Memorial and her insights into the museums programs and commemorative initiatives Katherine Akey the Commission’s social media director and also the line producer for the show. And I am Theo Mayer - your host. The US World War One Centennial Commission was created by Congress to honor, commemorate and educate about WW1. Our programs are to-- inspire a national conversation and awareness about WW1; This program is a part of that…. We are bringing the lessons of the 100 years ago into today's classrooms; We are helping to restore WW1 memorials in communities of all sizes across our country; and of course we are building America’s National WW1 Memorial in Washington DC. If you like the work we are doing, please support it with a tax deductible donation at ww1cc.org/donate - all lower case Or if you are on your smart phone text  the word: WW1 to 41444. that's the letters ww the number 1 texted to 41444. Any amount is appreciated. We want to thank commission’s founding sponsor the Pritzker Military Museum and Library for their support. The podcast can be found on our website at ww1cc.org/cn   on  iTunes and google play ww1 Centennial News. Our twitter and instagram handles are both @ww1cc and we are on facebook @ww1centennial. Thanks for joining us. And don’t forget to share the stories you are hearing here with someone about the war that changed the world! [music] So long!  

This is your opportunity to experience the power of the iZone Healing system...   And it's completely unique. There's literally nothing else like it in the world!   Healing for any and all issues like: Chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, abundance, relationships, allergies, chronic pain, new career and the list just goes on...... Michael is an advanced technological mind and energetic healer who has learned how to harness the powers of Grace for your greatest good.   This amazing technology transmits pure healing energy of the Universe direct to you as it works on your specific issues. Plus it heals your life continuously, 24/7 so your can finally achieve a clean bill of health.   Just listen to some of Michael’s shocking testimonials and you'll discover that no matter if you’ are burdened with anxiety, arthritis, cancer, general malaise or anything else under the sun... you have more options than you think.   Now you can understand the ROOT cause of ALL your problems... plus relax and let iZone heal them for you.   Don't miss this call!       ORDER JOY NOW!!!   Experience The Mysterious Healing Power Of iZone Energy!   In this Call : Discover why “safety” is key to achieving the health and wellbeing you deserve Understand the ROOT cause of all of your problems so you can ultimately free yourself Learn how to utilize Grace Energy everyday so you can improve your life through healing your physical body! Discover iZone Technology so you can find answers to your questions and start living your fullest life again! Allow the positive healing energy of the Universe into your life so you can focus on the parts of life that matter!     Find Your Connection And Consciously Develop Your Own Future...   Don’t Miss This Call!     ORDER JOY NOW!!!     About Michael Allenbright:  Michael Allenbright is an expert in the fields of metaphysics, psychology, energy medicine and wireless technology. His mission is to help people and animals find relief from their struggles in the simplest and easiest way possible. He seeks to raise individual's consciousness so that they can maintain health and well­being on their own.   Michael was born in Gorakhpur, India and discovered his gift of supernatural healing at the age of 7. He studied under a direct disciple of Yogananda Paramahansa and was guided by other enlightened teachers during his years of intense spiritual practice.   He holds an MBA from the Kellogg School of Management and an MS in Computer Science from Michigan Tech. He worked as a senior executive at Motorola for 16 years where he pioneered the development of 3G and 4G cellular technologies.   In 2008, Michael left the corporate world to make his passion for healing his profession. Using his spiritual wisdom and scientific expertise, Michael engineered an unprecedented healing system called iZone Healing Technology that heals the consciousness with Grace energy.     The MIRACULOUS results experienced by others:   “Migraine Headaches Gone” “I was on the program for four months last year. I wanted to heal migraine headaches and weight loss.   I had bad headaches for 4 or 5 years, I was in constant pain sometimes for days. I would be ok for a day or two and then not. That cycle would go on and on.   I had some pain in my back, it was misaligned and I had numbness in my toes and hands. Generally I didn’t feel good. I kept gaining weight. I started to feel slightly better immediately after signing up. During those four months I had a lot of emotional releases, it was a difficult period to go through.   Then one day I woke up and I was fine, I couldn’t remember the last time that I had a headache or my back. My fingers were fine. That was just wonderful. I still can’t believe it, but I’m fine.   So thank you it was a wonderful experience it was just wonderful.” ~ Maja   “Arthritis in Knees Healed!” “Knee specialist told me that the only way to relieve the pain in my knees was to have complete knee replacements.   I didn’t want to go through that so tried iZone instead. I’m so happy to say that after three month one day I woke up and the pain was gone. I am so grateful I found iZone and would recommend it to anyone experiencing chronic pain or arthritis.” ~ Zeenah   “Seizures Much Reduced and Family Life Improved” “I would like to share with you the story of Laura. Laura is 2.5 years old with a genetic mutation KCNQ2. That manifests with seizures and severe developmental delay.   The prognosis are that children with that diagnosis some can walk but most of them can not talk at all. They are dependent on caregivers.   Our journey started 2 years ago, my heart told me that must be solutions for problems that can not be solved in old way of thinking. I did a lot of research and I found some great stuff. When I found iZone my heart told me that my search was over.   So Laura is 7 months on iZone. I am 6 months and her father 4 months.   Since then there have been significant improvements in our family life. In Laura her immune system is much stronger, her digestion normalized, she has significantly less seizures than before. She even started to produce some new vocals. The doctor says that there are some tiny steps in process.   In our family life, we deal with stressful situation much better and calmer than before. The intensity of stress reduced from 100 to 4.   I believe and my heart tells me than she will walk independently, sing, and hang out with her brother. That they run through meadows. The whole society will eventually live in heaven.   So I thank Michael very much for sharing such a great technology with the world and hope to see you soon with new progress of Laura.” ~ Tena   “I am completely Cancer ­Free Today !!” “I am 65 years old was diagnosed with a rare form of melanoma in my right maxillary cavity. Surgery, radiation and bio­chemo treatment all failed to rid me of the melanoma.   Since I started the iZone Healing program with Michael my recovery from the bio­chemo treatments has been remarkable.   My doctors are baffled by my recovery with almost no side effects. My strength is back and most of all I am completely cancer free today.   I can attribute this only to Michael’s iZone Healing Healing. Thank you.” ~ Maggie, Jan, 2015   “Atrial Fibrillation (Abnormal Heart Beat) completely Cured in a Month !!” “I have had Atrial Fibrillation (Abnormal heart beat) since 2008. I would have an incident happen every 4­5 months then.   As the years passed the incident increased to every other month and since 2011 I was been having an incident every month. I would need to be rushed to the Emergency Room and they would have to shock my heart to restart it. It was progressively getting worse.   When I started the iZone Healing Program with Michael in August 2014 my objective was to feel lighter and happier and to open my heart and feel the feelings.   It has been almost 6 months now and I am very happy to report that I have not had a single incident . NONE!! It has relieved me a lot physically and emotionally. But am amazed at how my body is responding into getting me to better health before I can experience the joys.   It still amazes me how iZone Healing works. How precise, powerful and intelligent it is. Thank you Michael!!” ~ Arlene, Texas, Feb. 2015   “Long Standing Anxiety completely gone in 2 weeks !!” “I have a long standing anxiety issue which has been present despite many other practices I do. On a scale of 0­10 my anxiety was at a level 10. So I decided to do an Intention Healing Treatment with Michael.   Within 2 weeks I can confidently say that the anxiety which has been present in one form or another is completely gone.   I might get a little anxious here and there but it quickly dissipates by itself. I was even unusually calm after my son phoned me to tell me he was robbed a few weeks ago.” ~ Irene, Texas, Feb. 2015     ORDER JOY NOW!!!     ------------------------------------------ SUPPORT If you have any problems please contact us at: support@fromheartachetojoy.com ------------------------------------------   Thank you for taking the time to step out and GET this amazing information. You deserve it!   -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information on this site is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content, including text, graphics, images and information, contained on or available through this website is for general information purposes only. Please see a medical professional if you need help with depression, illness, or have any concerns whatsoever. WE DO NOT OFFER MEDICAL ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER OPINION on your conditions or treatment options. SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS WEBSITE are for information purposes only and not offered as medical or psychological advice, guidance or treatment  

New post from The eCommerceFuel Blog: Fahim Naim is a former Senior Category Manager at Amazon and founder of eShopportunity. Over the course of his time at Amazon, Fahim did P&L management for a multi-hundred million dollar category, managed relationships with vendors, and negotiated terms and costs with vendors and his team. We take a deep dive into the ways to make your Amazon listings fully optimized, as well as the common mistakes sellers make using Amazon's platform. If you are an Amazon seller, you definitely don't want to miss the vendor advice that Fahim has to offer. Subscribe:  iTunes | Stitcher (With your host Andrew Youderian of eCommerceFuel.com and Fahim Naim of eShopportunity) Andrew: Welcome to the eCommerceFuel podcast, the show dedicated to helping high six and seven figure entrepreneurs build amazing online companies and incredible lives. I'm your host and fellow ecommerce entrepreneur, Andrew Youderian. Hey guys. It's Andrew here and welcome to the eCommerceFuel podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in today. Today on the show I'm joined by Fahim Naim who is the cofounder of eShopportunity.com and a previous category manager at Amazon. So Fahim's got a ton of experience in this space with Amazon. We will talk about Amazon mistakes which was originally the intended focus of this discussion but we branched out a lot more. Particularly of interest to myself was the difference between FBA, Vendor Central, Vendor Express, how to negotiate with Amazon if they're buying product directly from you, which model, selling to third party or first party makes the most sense in different circumstances. So interesting discussion. I hope you enjoy it. But first, before we dive in, I want to do something I haven't done in quite a while and that is do a first sale shout out. I'm really excited to do this one for Laura Serino who...if the name sounds familiar it's because she's our community manager, she's the podcast producer here. I'm sure you've heard her or one of her episodes she's produced here on the show. So Laura, congrats on the first sale and her business is nhislandapothecary.com. Laura's been into the natural skin care space for quite a while and she's created her own proprietary line of skin care products with a little bit of island flare mixed in there. She lives on an island in Maine. So help Laura ramp up her business enough to where she can quit her job with eCommerceFuel. Check out nhislandapothecary.com. If that ever happens I'll be very sad to lose such an incredibly team member but thrilled for her and her business but yeah. So regardless, check it out, congrats to Laura and with that being said, let's go ahead and get in to today's episode with Fahim. So Fahim, before eShopportunity you actually worked at Amazon. What was your role there? Fahim's Amazon Background Fahim: I was a category manager. Managed one of the largest categories on the retail side of Amazon. Andrew: And what does that mean, to be a category manager? Fahim: Manage the first party so the direct part of the business. Anything that you would sell wholesale to Amazon. I was in the consumer electronics world under the PC components and peripherals part of Amazon. So essentially, manage all relationships with vendors, pricing, marketing, P&L ownership, forecasting, etc. Andrew: Do you miss it and why did you leave? Fahim: I do miss it although my consulting role and agency helps us stay in the game. The major reason I left was to move to San Francisco because of my wife who had to transfer for her work. At the same time, while everything was going well and could've happily stayed at Amazon, wanted to get out and do my own thing and get my skin in the game a little bit. So found a perfect balance with coming down to Bay Area, staying in the ecommerce space and still talking about going on Amazon as well as overall ecommerce. Andrew: Yeah,

Laura Henderson is a successful technology executive who first made her mark in the industry as the General Manager of TEKLYNX Americas, Inc., the leading global provider of barcode and label software. As a strategic, results-oriented leader with a keen ability to create high-performing operating cultures, Laura consistently achieved double-digit top and bottom-line growth at TEKLYNX. After nearly two decades of success leveraging technological advancements for the betterment of businesses across a variety of industries, her marriage to a special education teacher, and being the mother of five children, Laura recognized a need for technological advancements in an entirely different area — the gap between education and 21st century skills. So Laura set out to close the gap with the 2014 launch of a personalized learning software application called Epiphany Learning.   Secret -- timesaving technique Laura empowers others so that they can focus on a single vision, which eliminates major distractions. ONWARD! Daily habit that contributes to success Laura gets great sleep -- you have to take control of your daily schedule -- start with rest. Could have ruined your business -- but now -- an invaluable learning experience Laura had to deal with deconstructive criticism -- and Laura tells the whole story here. Most critical skill you think business owners need to master to be successful “A business owner needs to learn to inspire everyone that comes in contact with their business.” Most influential lesson learned from a mentor “Positivity changes the dialogue in the office -- leadership is often derived from confidence.”     Final Round -- “Breaking Down the Recipe for Success”   What systems would you go back and put into place sooner? I would have gone back and put a system in place with an emphasis on human capital and growth. What one strategy or “recipe” would compound into big wins for business owners? Business owners must invest in the maintenance and management of their teams. How to exceed expectations and add the most value? An individual who truly has a deep desire for lifelong learning and continual growth. What strategy would you recommend new business owners focus on to best ensure success? Consider the perspective Seek feedback It’s not personal How best to connect with Laura: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauramariehenderson     You can also find us here: ------ OnwardNation.com ------