Podcasts about book marketing

Everybody seems to be telling entrepreneurs to write a book.Write it in a weekend. Use AI. Upload it to Amazon. Become a bestselling author. Watch the clients roll in.Except…that's not quite how it works.This week on Casa De Confidence, Julie sits down with publishing expert Ally Machate, founder of The Writer's Ally, to pull back the curtain on what it actually takes to write and publish a book that supports your business, serves your reader, and creates lasting impact.With experience that includes working at Simon & Schuster and helping authors navigate the publishing process, Ally challenges one of the biggest assumptions in entrepreneurship: just because you can write a book doesn't necessarily mean you should—or that the book you're planning is the right one.Ally explains why the first question shouldn't be “What should I write?” but rather “What do I want this book to do?”Do you want it to attract clients? Generate speaking opportunities? Grow your email list? Establish thought leadership? Change the way people think about an issue?That answer changes everything.Julie also gets personal about her own publishing experience, including what she would do differently, the emotional reality of receiving developmental edits, and why publishing her book ultimately opened doors far beyond book sales.In This EpisodeWhat You'll HearWhy not every entrepreneur needs to write a bookThe difference between publishing a book and publishing a book people actually want to readWhy identifying your reader comes before writingHow a book can support your larger business strategyWhy your book is a product—not your babyWhat developmental editing actually doesWhy copyediting alone isn't enoughWhere AI can help authors—and where it still falls shortHow to create a transformational journey for your readerThe “macrocosm and microcosm” approach to structuring nonfictionTraditional publishing vs. hybrid publishing vs. DIY self-publishingWhat Ally calls supported indie publishingWhy distribution, ISBNs, Amazon KDP, and IngramSpark matterWhy giving books away can sometimes be smarter than selling themHow books create opportunities for coaching, consulting, speaking, and visibilityWhy becoming a bestseller isn't the only—or even necessarily the best—definition of publishing successOne of Ally's most important reminders?“If you're talking to everyone, you're connecting with no one.”Before investing months—or years—writing your book, get clear about the person you're writing for and what you want the book to accomplish.Because the goal isn't merely to become a published author.It's to write the right book.

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How can you get your books surfaced when readers ask an AI what to read next? What are the hallmarks of authors and businesses that last more than a decade in the indie author industry? Ricardo Fayet gives his marketing tips after more than a decade at Reedsy. In the intro, Expanding Your Book's IP through Merchandising [Wish I'd Known Then]; Guide to writers conferences [Kindlepreneur]; Rick Rubin and Stephen Pressfield on resistance and the muse [Tetragrammaton]; Pulitzer Prize winners disclose AI usage [Nieman Lab]; My new rebuilt fiction site JFPenn.com. Today's show is sponsored by Draft2Digital, self-publishing with support, where you can get free formatting, free distribution to multiple stores, and a host of other benefits. Just go to www.draft2digital.com to get started. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Ricardo Fayet is the co-founder and chief marketing officer of Reedsy, a marketplace for writers to find vetted freelancers, author training courses, and lots more. He's also the author of How to Market a Book and Amazon Ads for Authors. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes How AI search actually finds and ranks the books it recommends Why keywords and search volume are disappearing as marketing metrics Building an internet footprint so your book is worth recommending Why Claude leans on Goodreads while ChatGPT and Gemini lean on Reddit Product is more important than marketing, and how to find your comp titles Passion, business sense and resilience in the authors who last You can find Ricardo at Reedsy.com. Transcript of the interview with Ricardo Fayet Jo: Ricardo Fayet is the co-founder and chief marketing officer of Reedsy, a marketplace for writers to find vetted freelancers, author training courses, and lots more. He's also the author of How to Market a Book and Amazon Ads for Authors. So welcome back to the show, Ricardo. Ricardo: Thank you, Jo. It's been a while. Jo: It has been a while. As we were saying, it's been a decade, which is crazy, because you and I see each other at events and things. For anyone who doesn't know you— Tell us a bit more about you, where you're from, and also, what is Reedsy these days and how have things changed? Ricardo: Yes, sure. I think I'm hard to dissociate from Reedsy because my only background really is Reedsy. We started Reedsy right after business school for most of the founders. There are four founders, and I'm one of them. We've been going since 2014, so it's been 12 years. We started around the same time, and you started even earlier than we did, but we've had the chance to meet at quite a few conferences since. I think the main thing we're still known for is our marketplace. Since the very beginning, Reedsy is a curated marketplace where authors can come in and look for editors, cover designers, marketers, ghostwriters, literary translators, author website designers, pretty much any freelancer you would ever need to hire throughout your writing career. That's how we started. That's our main source of revenue and our main business. Since then, as you mentioned, we've also added courses, live events, so we've got a membership under Reedsy Learning. The main thing we're proud of right now is our writing tool, Reedsy Studio, because we've been pouring a lot of engineering talent into it over the past five, six years, and I think it's a really cool writing tool that is 90% free. It also does the formatting, so it's a good alternative to Vellum or Atticus for those who haven't purchased those tools. So there's a lot of things that Reedsy does at this point, which always makes it hard for me to describe what we do. Jo: But you generally serve writers. That's probably the crux of it. Ricardo: Exactly, yes. We're mostly at the production stage. The thing we say is we help authors make beautiful books, right? That's a little bit the tagline that applies to 90% of what we do, though we also help a little bit with the marketing side of things. Jo: And then just tell people where your accent is from. Ricardo: So I'm half French, half Italian from my parents, and I was born in Spain. So depending on my mood and the moment, it might be anywhere from French, Italian, Spanish. It's anyone's guess, really, at this point. Jo: Yes, exactly. You've been part of the indie author ecosystem, as you said, since 2014. You're often at the author conferences, and you stay abreast of everything that's going on. So what are the biggest changes you've seen in the industry since you started out? Like you said, you guys came from business school. You chose to come into the industry at a particular point, and yet things have changed. So what do you think are the biggest changes, and how have you seen authors adapt? Ricardo: It's crazy, the amount of things that happened in the past 10 years. Obviously we came into the industry as a result of Amazon launching Kindle Direct Publishing, and then the Kindle Store becoming one of the number one places where people buy books. That's what enabled self-publishing in the first place as an industry, and obviously we wouldn't exist without self-publishing being a thing. But then I think probably one of the biggest changes that happened was the introduction of Kindle Unlimited and various other subscription models. Perhaps as a response to that, afterwards, I would say direct sales is the other massive change that happened in the industry. The ability for authors to sell direct to their readers via their websites, or running Kickstarters, or basically the ability to reach your customers directly. Now, obviously, artificial intelligence is probably the biggest change of them all, not just in publishing, across every industry, but of course it's going to affect publishing very strongly, or it has already started making big waves. So I would say those are the three main changes that we've seen happening in the industry. Jo: Just interestingly, given that you're French, Italian, Spanish, European— Has the pace of change been the same in mainland Europe? Because you and I have also met up at European conferences, but I just get the sense that each individual European country, the UK included, as I include the UK in Europe, goes at a different speed. Ricardo: No, they definitely do. Our market at Reedsy is all in English. We only have an English website, and I would say 70% of our market is US, then 15% UK, and then Australia, New Zealand, et cetera. We do have clients in continental Europe, but they're mostly going to be American or British expats. A lot of retired people who write books and use Reedsy services. I think the main reason for that is that self-publishing as an industry hasn't really grown in Spain, France, Italy the way that it's grown in the US and the UK, probably because these are countries where book buying habits are a lot more traditional. So all my friends from high school and university in France, they all buy books, they all buy paper books. They all buy from bookstores. They don't really buy from Amazon that much. They love the smell of paper, all these sorts of things. So obviously that makes it harder for indie authors in those countries because they cannot place their books in the places where people buy them, which is traditional brick-and-mortar bookstores, or at least it's much harder. So there is an indie movement in those countries, but it's much smaller. I would say Germany is maybe the exception in Europe, where I've seen more and more full-time indie authors, but I don't think it's a market that's comparable even to the UK. Jo: Interesting. Okay, so let's go to marketing, because you love marketing, you have a newsletter about it, and you have a book, How to Market a Book, same title as mine, and we've found each other in our Also Boughts over the years. You have, however, updated yours several times. 2025 was your last update. Mine was 2016, so yours is definitely the most up-to-date one. So what are your thoughts on how authors can reach readers now? And let's split this into two. Let's start with some tips for new authors who just have maybe one book and are really just starting out. Ricardo: Yes, first of all, sorry for stealing your title. Jo: Oh, you know, it's never been a problem. Ricardo: We were trying to come up with something… I know, I know, I know. But still, we wanted something more original, and then we realised that for SEO purposes, that's the title we should really go for. The good thing is, if you search “how to market a book” on pretty much any retailer, you're going to find your book or mine in any order really, but those are going to be the top two books to this day, thankfully, so I'm good with that. I think in terms of marketing tips for new authors who have just the one book, I'd say, despite all the changes in the industry, the basics of marketing still stay the same. One of my big mantras when it comes to marketing is that product is more important than marketing. So having a great book is going to be more important, in my opinion, than being a great marketer. Having a great product. By that, I generally don't talk about literary value or prose or anything like that, just because I'm not a book critic. I'm not an editor. My opinion on whether a book is good or not is worth zero. From a marketing standpoint, for me, a good book is one that resonates with its intended audience. So the first step for newer authors is to basically figure out who they wrote this book for, right? Have an idea of who their target market is. A great way to do that, without entering into marketing jargon like proto-personas and stuff like that, is to think in terms of comp titles, comparable titles. I think that's probably the base of any marketing, whether traditional publishing houses or indie authors, to think, “Okay, which other books out there are similar to mine?” If your book is completely unique, you have, I would say, 99.9% chance of not selling, because your market doesn't exist, and 0.01% chance of creating your own market and completely dominating it, right? So being unique is not necessarily a bad thing, but I would say 99% of the time, it is. Obviously being unique within an existing niche, within an existing market, that's completely different, but you need to work on some comparable titles. So I would say that's where I would start, and that's one of the things that AI is great at. If you even just plug in your book into an AI chat that has enough context, if you're comfortable doing that of course, or if you plug in a synopsis, like a long synopsis, you can basically ask the AI chats, “Okay, what would be some comp titles?” Either you'll have heard of those books, and you'll think, “Okay, they're good comps,” or you may not have heard of them, in which case I would really recommend buying them and reading them and seeing whether they're comps or not. I think that's where marketing starts. Jo: Yes, and we might come back to that for book discoverability. Well, let's just talk about it now, because I now pretty much use Claude for discovering books as well. I just find that the Amazon search, for nonfiction it works really well, right? As you said, if you want to learn how to market a book, you just search “how to market a book”, and our books are very well titled for that. But for fiction, it's so difficult to find new books and comp titles, especially if you don't write in a clear genre, which I don't. I know lots of people do. So we're writing cross-genre. So in terms of book discoverability, I know you've been looking into SEO for books and all of that. What are your thoughts on how authors can more effectively have their books surfaced if people are using the AIs for finding books? Ricardo: That's a very big topic. That's one of my favourite topics right now. That's what I talk about in my marketing newsletter, and I want to start a Substack on the topic as well, because I think it is the future of book discoverability. As you say, search on Amazon isn't great, and if it's not great on Amazon, you don't even want to imagine on Google Play, Kobo, all these sorts of places, right? If you search on Kobo or Apple Books or Google Play for witch cozy mysteries, the top 10 books are going to have exactly “witch cozy mystery” in the title or the subtitle or the series title, right? Jo: Yes. Ricardo: Search is very simple on those sites, so it's very easy to game, but it's terrible as an experience for readers. So I do think that a big part of search is going to move to AI, and now you have Rufus within Amazon itself that appears as a chatbot and encourages you to talk with it, to ask for recommendations. In the beginning Rufus was really terrible, but now I recommend authors play with it. In general, I recommend when it comes to AI discoverability that authors play with all the AI search tools. So it's going to be Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, Google's AI Overviews and AI Mode, Rufus within Amazon. Just like we talked about comp titles, right, ask for something like, “What would you recommend for fans of this book? Which other books would you recommend?” Or if you're looking for something specific that describes your book, what books would you recommend on… I think one of your examples was fiction around masonry or something like that, right? Jo: I always say, for example, if you ask for action adventure thrillers on pretty much anywhere, you're going to get 20 books by male authors. For those of us who are female authors, but also who have female main characters, you can then be far more granular. That's just not something that necessarily works on Amazon. So, action adventure thrillers with female protagonists written by female indie authors, which is very specific. That will work in AI, whereas that definitely won't work on Amazon. Ricardo: Exactly. So one of the great things about AI search, and terrible things at the same time, is that the concept of keyword is lost, right? So we title our books How to Market a Book because the keyword that people would search for is “how to market a book”, or “book marketing for authors”. Those were the two keywords that had the biggest search volume if we looked at Google Keyword Planner, or any search tools that give you keyword volume. When it comes to AI search, since it's conversational, and it's very personalised, and it can go as niche as you want, keywords are going to disappear, and search volume as a metric is going to disappear. The search you just told me about, maybe there are 10 people who are going to run it exactly. Most people are going to run variations of that. Since you can go as granular as you want, it's going to be very long phrases, very long sentences. So the whole concept of keywords, search volume, SEO, is going to disappear in favour of what some people call GEO, generative engine optimisation, AIO, AI optimisation, AI search optimisation. There's a bunch of names for it, but it is a different discipline. It still works on the basis of Google SEO because what most of these search engines will do is they're going to search the internet, right? They've been trained on a lot of information, but not all of that information is current. Most of these models have been trained on documents and web pages before 2021. That's why when you used the very early versions of ChatGPT, and you asked it about current events or current books, it didn't find it. It didn't have that information. Now all these models have the ability to search the web, and they do that really effectively. So the first thing they're going to do if you run a search like that is they're going to run dozens of different searches on Google or a similar search engine. Action thriller books with female protagonists. Action thriller books with female protagonists by indie authors. Action thriller books by indie authors. They're going to create what I call a corpus, so a massive document of information with candidates, books that probably meet those criteria that they have found through regular web searches. Then they're going to go through all those books and determine which are the most relevant to recommend, and they'll return with that. Then they'll usually have a verification layer as well, which is, okay, I have these five books that I want to recommend to this user, but I just want to make sure first that they are written by indie authors, that they do have a female protagonist, et cetera. And if I'm not able to verify that, I'll flag it in my answer to them. So there are these three layers. Web search, then ranking of the book candidates, and finally a verification layer, and then they serve you the answer. Obviously, that's really powerful. If that's the way that search is headed, which I firmly believe, then we as authors need to learn how to get our books in there. Jo: Yes. It's so interesting, and I do this all the time. Really niche stuff, like a thriller about anatomical Venuses, which are these models from anatomy museums and stuff like that, with an edge of the supernatural. What is brilliant is that you can find the books that come up. I actually got one that I read and reviewed, and it was fantastic. So I love the more granular thing, but we're really in the very long tail now, right? It feels like you can write a very nuanced book, and it will be surfaced, but only by a few people. So do we have to write our books and then try to not even retrofit them in the way that we used to? We used to try and figure out the seven keywords and all of that kind of thing, and now I almost feel like we just get to be grownups, where you just get to write the book and put it out there, and these things are more intelligent than the search terms. Ricardo: Yes, absolutely. I think in terms of the variety of books that are going to be read and discovered, that's amazing. A little bit like the whole indie publishing movement was amazing, because if you remove the traditional publishing gatekeepers, then suddenly zombie books aren't dead anymore. Zombies are alive again. They've… Jo: Come to life. Ricardo: They've come alive, and so you get a bunch of zombie books again. It's not a small niche audience. It's actually a pretty big niche audience that loves zombie books, and suddenly they have those to consume. This is a little bit similar on a much, much bigger and more granular scale, because anyone can find exactly the kind of book that they're looking for, with the tropes they want, with the type of characters they want, with the type of author they want, and you can basically use any kind of filter. So for discoverability on the side of the reader, that's great. For the authors, it doesn't mean that you can just write whatever you want and then rest, and readers will find them. Because your books still need to have generated a certain internet footprint and a certain review footprint in order to become interesting or recommendable to AI search engines, right? Unless you're the only book that an AI search engine can recommend for that specific search, and yours was very specific, so it might have been the only one. If there are other candidates, the AI search engines are pretty smart. They're going to recommend the candidates that have more reviews, better reviews, or are more famous, that have more, when I talk about internet footprint, more pages talking about them on the internet. That's for me the big finding I've seen. The more pages you have on the internet talking about your book, so that could be book review sites, that could be Goodreads lists, Listopia lists, anywhere on the internet where your book is mentioned, that creates a footprint for it. The more footprints, the more famous your book looks to AI search engines, and so the more worthy of recommendations it is to them. Jo: Yes, and this is one reason why I now ask people, especially when you sell direct, or say you have a Kickstarter and you want reviews, I ask people if they can review on Goodreads. Obviously Goodreads is owned by Amazon, but it is far more searchable by the bots than Amazon is. I sometimes find that Amazon gets blocked. Or Amazon blocks some of the bots, let's put it that way. They might change over time. They own 15% of Anthropic or something. But Goodreads I feel like does get indexed, and I'm not willing to engage on Reddit. I know Reddit is another popular one. Just be very clear on social media, because some people think, oh, I just need loads of influencers to talk about my book, and that will impact the AIs. But I find that social media just almost isn't even there. Ricardo: It depends on which social media. For me, Reddit is a social medium, right? It's a very weird one, but it's obviously the number one social medium used by AI search engines, and it's pretty dodgy stuff with lots of conflicts of interest, because Google has a paid partnership with Reddit. I think Sam Altman has shares in Reddit. So both OpenAI and Google Gemini heavily rely on Reddit for their AI answers, right? If you ask anything from ChatGPT or Gemini, I'd say there are very high chances that in the sources and the citations of the answer, you're going to find Reddit, right? That goes for books as well. Every time you ask for book recommendations, Reddit is going to be big for those two AI search engines. Claude, it's a little bit different. They do have a little bit of a relationship with Reddit, but I don't think it's as big. I found that Claude relies heavily on Goodreads, not Reddit. To me, Goodreads is another social medium at the end of the day, right? It's not the kind of social medium we think of, like… Jo: It's not TikTok. Ricardo: It's not TikTok. TikTok is surfaced a little bit, but not that much. It might become more surfaced in the future, but right now what I've found is, it's really Reddit and Goodreads. Facebook, LinkedIn, but LinkedIn is big for nonfiction topics more than fiction, because there are just not a lot of fiction readers, sorry, talking about their favourite books on LinkedIn. They usually go to other places for that. Jo: Yes, it's really interesting. So obviously TikTok has its own BookTok thing, so some people are finding books on BookTok, and some people like me are finding books through asking Claude, and that's just my overwhelming feeling about the industry. We talked earlier about what's changed. When I started, so 2006, there wasn't even KDP, and then KDP arrives, then you came in 2014, and probably until maybe a few years after that, there was one way to self-publish. Then what's happened since is this kind of splintering. There are so many ways to self-publish. There are so many ways to reach readers. There are so many ways to market. So someone, for example, could sell direct on TikTok Shop, only market through TikTok, and you wouldn't even know that they existed over in another ecosystem, right? So do you feel like that's happened too, this total splintering? Ricardo: Absolutely. I think there are so many different ways in which you can reach your audience now and monetise it as well, that it's absolutely possible. We both know examples of authors who are only visible to their TikTok niche, right? I think the big difference is also monetisation, because earlier you also had different ways of becoming well-known. Like you had Facebook, you had potentially Twitter, back when it was Twitter. Various social media, word of mouth. But where people bought books was Amazon. So that was your monetisation. It was either selling your book on Amazon, or potentially getting KU reads after that when KU launched. Now you can sell on TikTok, you can sell direct, you can run Kickstarters, you can start a Patreon or Substack and make your money through there. There are pretty much infinite ways through which you can monetise your content as a creator. Most of those places will also have a discoverability engine built in, so you can not only sell through there and make money through there, but also grow an audience there. That's probably the biggest competition that Amazon has ever had to face, is this sort of splintering. For us authors and content creators in general, it's amazing, because it's a bunch of different opportunities. Jo: Yes, and I think probably that's circling back to marketing. As we've said, some things have changed, some things stay the same. Is the email list still the number one way to market, do you think, for authors who want a long-term career? Ricardo: I think so. It's just the one thing you really own that allows you to communicate with readers, right? Because even if you build a following on TikTok, TikTok can change. The things we said about Facebook 10 years ago, if you build your Facebook group, Facebook can change, and Facebook changed. Facebook destroyed the reach of pages, and now groups also aren't amazing, et cetera. So the same thing that happened to Facebook can happen to TikTok, can happen to any other social media. Substack is a bit of a hybrid because it is a newsletter, it is a mailing list, but it also has a discoverability engine built in. So I still wouldn't really go all in on Substack. The great advantage there is that you do own the emails, right? So you can move away from it at some point. For me, the email list is the one thing that you are completely in control of. Personally, the main thing I check is my emails every day. I spend more time in my inbox than anywhere else, and I think that's probably the case for most people. So I do think, despite the influx of mails that readers are getting in their inbox, I still think it's one of the most important marketing tools for authors. Jo: Yes, and I still remember when I started my list in December 2008, and I still have people on the list who've been with me that whole time, and have moved email list services several times as well. So I think that's important too. The care of that list too is so important. One of the things that I am annoyed about with Substack, I don't have a Substack, but when I follow some people's, it's always constantly trying to get you to sign up to other people's lists, trying to subscribe you to this or that or the other. I'm like, “That's so annoying.” Now I've found on all these email services they're trying to pair you with other creators and cross-promote and all of this. So it feels like even the email list is becoming a difficult place unless you really protect it. So just protecting your list, I think, and remembering that those are people. Those are people who've bought your books, or people who read your emails. Like people listening to this, these are humans. Sure, some bot might be looking at the transcript, but humans listening to this are individual humans with individual email lists. We tend to forget that, don't we, as you get a bigger list. You think about it as a big number, whereas it's still individual people. Ricardo: Yes, it becomes a number, it becomes metrics, the open rate, the click rate, and all that. But the great thing about email is that you get replies in your inbox. There you remember that they're actual human beings who write you back. I think for readers, the ability to write back to an author and get a response is just amazing, right? If you write to your favourite author and they write back to you, that's the best feeling ever as a reader. So I think email is still one of the best ways to turn your readers into fans and into super fans of your brand, by just interacting with them and answering them. Because yes, you can answer comments on TikTok, Facebook, and all those places, but it doesn't feel the same as an author answering you in your inbox, I feel. So you do get that ability to create a real connection with readers directly through email. Jo: Yes, and I think that trust and the reputation is so important. Just in terms of seeing the authors that you've seen over the years, like I said, you've been going to a lot of the author conferences. You know a lot of the authors in the industry. A lot of people will know you from events. But you've also seen authors come and go, and you've seen vendors come and go. Both of us have seen people arrive, and we'd be like, “Oh, yes, I wonder how long they're going to last.” Then some people do and some people don't. So what are some of the elements that you've noticed about the businesses that last more than a decade? Ricardo: I think they need to solve a genuine problem, or offer a genuinely better solution than one that already exists. I see a lot of businesses come in and they do what another vendor already does, without doing it necessarily better. Those businesses tend to disappear, or linger there, but you don't really hear about them again. When they solve a real need… I still remember when BookFunnel came out, and they've since become massive with one very, very basic thing, which is, “We will take care of delivering your ebook files to readers.” That's how they started, and that's how they became massive. To me at the time, I was like, “That seems like a very small problem,” because I can just email an ebook file. I didn't realise that it was so complicated for a lot of readers to upload files to their Kindle or other devices, and that having a service that takes care of that for you is just massively helpful. I realised that when I published my books, actually. So businesses that solve even micro or apparently very small problems, but they really solve them effectively, they stay. Others that surf on trends, they tend to disappear when the trend disappears. When there's a new marketing trend, and that trend stops working, then those businesses tend to go. Jo: Yes, and what about the authors who last? Because let's face it, most of us don't solve a problem in a different way. Maybe you could say we solve your entertainment problem in a different version to your last book. What about the authors who last long term? What have you noticed about them? Ricardo: Two things. So the first one… Maybe three things. First one is passion. I always say to people who are looking to start self-publishing, I always say that publishing in general is probably one of the worst ways to make money. It's awful. You can pick up any other occupation and it's probably going to be easier to make money. So writers who make a career do it because they need to write, because they have a passion for writing. So a lot of people who come into the industry thinking, “I've heard about all these self-publishing success stories. Surely I can write a book and I can market it. It's not that hard. So that's going to be a great way to make quick bucks,” those generally don't last, because they don't have that genuine passion. The first hurdle they're going to face—and there's going to be a bunch of them along the way—they're going to quit. The second thing is business sense, or business education, the basics of business, right? Thinking in terms of marketing, thinking in terms of who's my reader, unit economics. If I'm selling my books at $3.99, I shouldn't be spending a ton of money. If I just have one book at $3.99, I cannot afford to pay $5 on ads to generate a sale. So those kinds of basic economics or business knowledge, I think, if not a requirement, it's a massive plus. The third thing is resilience. The industry has changed a lot, as you mentioned. There are a bunch of ways now to reach an audience. There are a bunch of ways to make money. It can also be distracting, because you go to one of these conferences and you go back thinking, “Oh, I've got to create my own website, sell direct. I've got to launch my Substack. I have to use Claude Code for my ads,” and three more things, “and I have to set up my TikTok Shop and do TikTok Lives to sell books,” right? Jo: All of those by next week. That's why we go to the conference. Ricardo: Exactly. All those by next week, right? And during that one week after the conference, you have the energy to start implementing all those things, but afterwards you lose that energy and you go back to, “I just want to quit.” So you need to have some sort of resilience, and the business sense of, “Okay, I'm going to try this for the next six months, and I'm going to stick to it, and I'm going to see whether it works or not. And if it doesn't work, I'm not just going to despair. I'm going to try something else.” That goes for marketing tactics, but also goes for books. Most authors I know who make a living writing, they didn't get there with their first book or even their first series. A lot of times I see authors who write a couple of series, and those series do okay. They sell a little bit, but not much, and it doesn't afford them to quit their day job. Then suddenly, based on what they've learned with those first two series and what they've learned potentially going to conferences or listening to podcasts like this, et cetera, they write a third series that's a hit. That's a hit, and that's instantly much easier to market, and that's when they can afford to go full time and write full time, because they've found that sort of product market fit. And product market fit for me is the main thing for marketing in general and for authors in particular. Until you find that, everything is really difficult from a marketing perspective. But finding it usually requires writing more than one book and more than one series, because you're rarely going to get the big lottery ticket on the first try. Jo: Or ever. I think it's really important. I've never had a breakout book, but I've made good money every year. I think, and Hugh Howey said this, that the real story of self-publishing is not the people who make seven figures a year, it's the people who can go on a holiday once a year, or the people who can just put a bit towards their mortgage or whatever. So you may never have a breakout series. I think that's really important, too. Ricardo: That's true. Jo: That's true. You can just keep writing and make all right money and be what we call in the mid-list. Ricardo: Yes, but you've got to keep going. You've got to have that resilience to keep going, probably because it's your passion. Exactly. You're not chasing that seven figure series. You're writing because you need to write. Jo: Yes, and you can't stop, and you get the bug. I think when you're writing that first book, I'm not sure if people understand that you either get the bug or you don't, I think. You've written a couple of books now. Do you think you have the bug, or is it more about the business? Ricardo: I don't have the bug. I definitely don't have the bug. I would've kept writing otherwise. Jo: You're a technologist, right? Ricardo: Yes. I'm more of a technologist, more of a marketer. To write my first book, How to Market a Book, I actually had to write newsletters, because that I can manage, right? One newsletter a week. Now I don't even manage that. I send it once every two weeks when I can even manage that pace. But back then I did one newsletter a week, and that's how I wrote my first book. I then put all these newsletters together, and that was before the age of AI, so I couldn't just dump all that into ChatGPT and tell it, “Create me a book based on that.” I had to do it myself. Jo: Oh, terrible. Ricardo: Terrible, I know. The days when we had to work. No, but that was a really good experiment. The second book, Amazon Ads for Authors, I actually wrote it from scratch, and I didn't love the experience. I loved the finished product, I'm very proud of it, but I didn't enjoy the experience of writing it. Amazon Ads is not the most exciting topic in the world. Even for people like me, who actually enjoy Amazon Ads, it's not super exciting to write about. The fact of having to write that whole book from scratch, I didn't love the experience. So now I do want to write a third book at some point, but I think it'll probably be in the format of the first one. Like, when I finish my series of newsletters on AI search and AI discoverability, I might do a booklet or something around it, but we'll have to see. It's not my favourite thing. It's a good thing I don't need to. Good thing I'm not an author, basically. Jo: No, but I think that's really great to recognise. You actually have written books that support your business, and that is very common for nonfiction writers. That's completely normal for nonfiction authors. So I think that's another important thing for people to recognise, is that the reasons we write are different, the reasons we market are different, and we all have different approaches. As we wind up, and obviously you talked a bit there about how easy it is to generate books with AI, and that is probably one of the biggest things that people are worried about. Now, those of us like you and I have been talking about AI at conferences and things for years now. Neither of us are afraid of it, I think basically because both of us use it, and we're technologists, so we just get on with it. There is so much fear in the community. There's so much negativity. You mentioned Substack, and now they've integrated Pangram, which is renowned for false positives around what is written with AI, and so people are very worried. If we look forward and we look at the next decade, this is not going away. This is going to change a lot of things. So how should authors be thinking about AI, do you think, if they want to prepare for the next decade? Ricardo: I think they need to play around with it, because you and I know that until you actually use it, you don't realise what it's capable of. We've both had these moments of “Oh my God, I'm going to be out of a job,” or “Oh my God, this is incredible,” the kind of things it's able to do. You also realise by using it the things it's not great at, or the things it can be good at but needing a lot of human input. There are courses out there, there are books, there are a lot of things, but for me, the most important thing is to start playing around with it. So you can pick one specific topic to play around with. Either something that you've been meaning to get into for years and haven't done, or something that really annoys you. Looking at the results of your Facebook ads, for example. If you run Facebook ads in the first place, and when you log into your Meta dashboard you cannot make sense of it, take screenshots or download the data, feed it to an AI chat, and talk with it. One of my biggest tips when talking to AI chats is asking them questions rather than asking them for things to do. Because if you just feed it your advertising data and you tell it, “Tell me what I should do,” the chat has no context about what your ads are about, what your goal is, et cetera, et cetera. If you feed it just a screenshot and you say, “Here are my ads. I would like you to help me make sense of them. What do you need to know from me in order to help me with this?” Then it's going to start asking you questions. “Okay, what are you advertising?” They're books. “Okay, what kind of books? Where are you selling? Are your ads going straight to Amazon or retailers, or are they going to your website? If you sell direct, okay, are these conversion ads?” Et cetera, et cetera. So you build that context, and they can help you with it. So that's just one example, but I would pick one thing that you want to test AI with, with zero expectations. Don't expect that by the end of the week you'll have a full system for understanding your Meta ads thanks to AI. You might get to that or you might not, but at least you'll play with it and you'll understand its capabilities, and have a sort of understanding of how it works and how you can potentially use it for other things. I think that's the best way to adapt, because once you play with it, you start thinking. You're walking the dog and you're just thinking, “Ha, I could maybe use it for this thing or that other thing,” and that's how you progressively become more familiar with it. I think there are a lot of worries around AI, but as you say, it's there to stay. So far, I think I was looking at data this morning, and the unemployment rate in the US has stayed stable ever since ChatGPT was introduced two years ago. So there are a lot of narratives out there around how it's going to replace humans, it's going to replace jobs, et cetera, which it might do. I'm not great at predictions usually, but so far it hasn't. What it will definitely do, however, is completely change the way we work. Obviously AI was one of our big reckonings at Reedsy, because we run a marketplace. Our main business model is the marketplace, where authors come in and look for editors, for marketers, for cover designers, for translators, and some of these domains and services are being transformed by AI, right? AI translations are massive right now. We haven't really seen a decline at all on the Reedsy marketplace, but we're prepared for it. It might very well happen, but what we think is happening, or is going to happen, is professionals using AI tools to provide a better output or a faster output or a cheaper output, or all three of these things. So for example, we now have literary translators who say they're open to editing AI translations, right? So you can come in, you can have your book translated with AI, whichever tool or method you choose for that. Then if you want a set of human eyes on it, you can hire a literary translator who's open to working on an AI-translated manuscript, and that's obviously going to be much, much cheaper than paying 10 cents per word from scratch for a literary translator. I'm not necessarily recommending you completely bypass literary translators, or that you go this way, but you have options, right? You have options for different sets of budgets. I think all these human editors, narrators, translators, designers, et cetera, they're not going to disappear, but they might have to reinvent the way they work in the future. Jo: As we all are doing. As you say, for me mostly it's the business side, getting Claude to help me with business stuff. Like even bookkeeping. There are bills that we've all been paying for years that we can now maybe reduce, and reducing costs as well as increasing profit is obviously good business sense. So, interesting times. But just as we wrap up, what are you excited about in what's coming? How do you see Reedsy shaping up in the next decade? What is coming for you and Reedsy? Ricardo: We're really excited about the decade to come, because obviously 10 years for a startup is a long time. I think most startups after 10 years, the founders are gone. Jo: Yes. Ricardo: Or they've exited or they've sold or whatever. We've stayed, we're the same founders, and we're still as excited because I think we have new products, right? We're working on new things. As I mentioned at the beginning of the episode, Reedsy Studio, our writing tool, is probably one of the things we're most excited about, because first, it's getting adopted very fast. It has startup-like growth that we hadn't seen for other products in a long time, and it has very cool technology built in. We probably have a team of 10, 15 engineers now working full time on it and adding a lot of things. So we've added templates for plotting your book, with relationships within different characters and places and magic systems and things like that. We've added writing goals and writing statistics. We still have the free exports. One very cool thing we've added is real time collaboration. So just like Google Docs, you can write in real time with a co-author, or you can get an editor to work in there live with track changes. So you could have an editor working on chapter one while you're writing chapter three, for example. That kind of thing. It's really powerful technology, and that's one of the things we're really excited about for the future. A business, just like authors, we've got to reinvent ourselves. We've got to find ways to keep things exciting and keep motivated, and that is definitely one of them. When adoption goes along with it, then that's obviously super satisfying. Jo: Brilliant. So where can people find you and Reedsy online? Ricardo: So Reedsy you can find at reedsy.com, R-E-E-D-S-Y.com. And there you'll find the whole suite of tools and services. For me, you can find me mostly by email, as I mentioned. That's the one place I check consistently every day, and my email address is ricardo@reedsy.com. So again, R-E-E-D-S-Y.com and ricardo@reedsy.com. You can email me any questions you have about this episode, about AI book discoverability, about marketing, about Reedsy. I always try to answer every email I get, because I think when we started Reedsy, I really appreciated people like you, and some other agents and editors and authors we contacted who were influential in the industry, who actually answered us and took the time to do that. So now I try to answer every email I get, because I feel like we've been very lucky in the beginning to have those people answering our emails, so we should do the same. Jo: Oh, well, thanks so much for your time, Ricardo. That was great. Ricardo: Thank you, Jo. Thanks for having me again.The post Book Marketing, AI Book Discoverability, And Resilience, With Ricardo Fayet first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Let's choose one primary 90-day book marketing goal and clarify why it matters to you. That way you can make wise choices with your time, energy, and opportunities as you faithfully serve the women God called you to reach on podcasts.

Could the real reason you're avoiding book marketing have nothing to do with marketing?You know you need to talk about your book, yet every time you think about promoting it, reaching out, or asking for the sale, something inside you pulls back.This week's guest is Judy Kane, author of Your Four Truths: How Beliefs Impact Your Life and an expert in uncovering the subconscious beliefs that shape our choices.Judy explains how fear of visibility, rejection, criticism, and selling can quietly hold authors back, even when they believe deeply in their books. You'll discover how to recognize the stories driving your resistance, fact-check assumptions that may no longer be true, and use visualization to create a more confident response to marketing.We also explore how early beliefs about money, self-worth, and success can affect your willingness to sell, charge for your work, and receive the opportunities your book creates.What You'll Discover:Why marketing can feel more threatening than it isHow to challenge the stories holding you backWhy reconnecting with your purpose changes marketingHow visualization can build confidenceHow money beliefs influence sellingTune in to uncover the hidden beliefs that may be holding your book back and discover how to move forward with greater confidence.Here's how to connect with Judy:WebsiteLinkedInBuy a copy of her book: Your4Truths: How Beliefs Impact Your LifeBook your 15 minute free consultation*************************************************************************What Should I Do When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming?You poured your heart into writing your book because you wanted to make a difference. It deserves to be discovered.If marketing feels confusing, frustrating, or like you're spinning your wheels, the Author Influencer Circle will help you build authority, attract opportunities, and market your book with clarity and confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and discover how your book can open doors to speaking, clients, partnerships, and meaningful income.*************************************************************************

Today on the Community podcast, Kristina is joined by bestselling author, book coach, and publishing expert Jake Kelfer to talk about how writing a book can help you build authority, create opportunities, and grow your business.Jake shares how writing his first book changed the direction of his career and why entrepreneurs don't need a huge audience, decades of experience, or a perfectly polished story to become an author.Tune in to hear:Why you don't need to be the world's leading expert to write a great book.How to move through imposter syndrome and confidently share your perspective.Why writing a book can be a powerful tool for business growth beyond book sales.Jake's ROI trifecta of purpose, platform, and profit.How a book can generate clients, speaking opportunities, visibility, and authority.The three things Jake believes every successful book needs.If you've ever thought about writing a book but questioned whether you're ready, this episode will give you the encouragement and practical advice to start.Tune in now and discover how writing a book can become a powerful asset for your brand and business growth!Connect with Jake:WebsiteFollow Jake on InstagramRead Big Idea To BestsellerMentioned in this Episode:Ready to make your marketing work harder? Partner with Merit Media to scale your growth with strategic paid ads at  https://www.meritmedia.com/Send me a text!PodMatchPodMatch Automatically Matches Ideal Podcast Guests and Hosts For InterviewsSupport the showFor Your Information:• Host your podcast on Buzzsprout!•Join The High Vibe Women Online Community!• Join our favourite scheduling platform Later• FLODESK Affiliate Code | 25% off your first year!• Connect with Kristina  Don't forget to come say hi to us on Instagram @thesocialsnippet, join the Weekly Snippet or follow us on any social media platform! Website . Instagram . Facebook . Linkedin

✍️ Want to start writing online? Download this free Ultimate Guide to get started: https://yt.startwritingonline.com 

How can you tell where the real innovation in publishing is happening right now, and why is it emerging from the indie side first? How do you market your own book when you've spent 35 years marketing everyone else's? John Bond talks about Going Indie and what he's learned about authors who last. In the intro, my thoughts on writing with AI, Charles Dickens and encouragement for the 3-year-old dancing to K-Pop at the wedding, UK copyright law, The end of an era — Hugh Howey; Notre Dame, Paris; Today's show is sponsored by Bookfunnel, the essential tool for your author business. Whether it's delivering your reader magnet, sending out advanced copies of your book, handing out ebooks at a conference, or fulfilling your digital sales to readers, BookFunnel does it all. Check it out at bookfunnel.com/thecreativepenn This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn John Bond is the co-founder of Whitefox, a premium publishing services agency, and has over 35 years in traditional publishing, from bookselling to marketing and management. He's also the co-author of Going Indie: Publishing Your Book Your Way, with James Silver. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Show Notes Why 2012 was a watershed moment for publishing in the UK Whether the snobbery around self-publishing has finally gone How to co-write a book with someone, and why there's no formula The pride swallowing involved in getting endorsement quotes for your own book The shadow economy of indie sales that no industry chart measures The hallmarks of writers who build a long-term career You can find John at wearewhitefox.com. Transcript of the interview with John Bond Jo: John Bond is the co-founder of Whitefox, a premium publishing services agency, and has over 35 years in traditional publishing, from bookselling to marketing and management. He's also the co-author of Going Indie: Publishing Your Book Your Way, with James Silver. So welcome back to the show, John. John: Thank you, Jo. Thanks so much for having me. Jo: You were last on the show in 2022. You've been on a couple of times, but just set the scene. Tell people a bit more about you and your long background in publishing. John: I suppose I could say I started as a marketing manager at Penguin back in the early 1990s in London, and that role eventually evolved into running sales and marketing, as it often does. I did that at Penguin and at HarperCollins. Then I ran one of the publishing divisions at HarperCollins, including 4th Estate, and published Hilary Mantel and Jonathan Franzen and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie and others. I left that in 2011 and set up Whitefox in 2012, and it's a classic startup story. It was somebody I worked with at HarperCollins. We sat around a kitchen table, came up with an idea for a business, which was Whitefox, and that's grown into the creative agency that it is today. Jo: So back then, did you think, “I can do this better”? Was that the impetus, “I can do publishing better than Penguin and HarperCollins”? John: No, I thought we would solve a problem. There's something very attractive about that whole startup mentality and beginning something from scratch. I mean, I was in my early 50s. I'd had a long career in traditional publishing. On the plus side, I knew a lot of people, and I thought I could get meetings, people would reply to my phone calls or my emails. On the downside, I didn't necessarily have the energy of a 20 to 25-year-old. I knew a lot of people and I knew quite a lot of things, and I also knew what problems something like Whitefox could solve. We set up with this idea that if we could galvanise and organise the diaspora of freelancers in the publishing space and make them available to anybody that wanted to make a book, that that would be quite a powerful thing. These incredibly creative, wonderful people who were below the radar and were not particularly valued or managed or utilised properly. I thought if we could access that and make that available not just to traditional publishing people who know about these people, but to individual authors, businesses, brands, people that wanted to make a book, and if you added a layer of our expertise from traditional publishing, that could be quite powerful, I suppose. That's what I was thinking back then. Jo: It's funny, though. You said these wonderful freelancers who were not particularly valued or managed or utilised properly. That could also apply to a lot of authors in traditional publishing. John: Totally. Totally. But if I'm honest, I don't think I was thinking about that. What's really evolved since we started, even in that 2011, 2012 period, is so much has happened to independent writers, indie authors. The whole ecosystem has become much more vibrant, and what is accessible to those writers is much greater. I'd like to think we've played a part in that. What that's done is put power back into writers' hands, and that quickly became apparent in the business as a byproduct of what we'd set up. Jo: Yes, and 2012 I do think in the UK was a pivot point, because I got into self-publishing in 2006/2007 when the Americans did with the beginning of the Kindle and the iPhone. Really the American ecosystem grew first. I happened to be in Australia, and so I think I was able to escape the negativity of the vortex in the UK, which took a number more years to embrace self-publishing as a force to be reckoned with as opposed to an embarrassing thing in the corner for vanity press. Do you see 2012 as a changing point in UK publishing? John: I think we'd just come out of the Kindle moment, hadn't we? There were all sorts of conversations going on about how that was going to change things forever. I think no one quite knew what the upshot of that was going to be, but we knew that it was incredibly disruptive. In 2012, Penguin, as it was then, before Penguin Random House, had offered to buy Author Solutions for $115 million, presumably seen as some kind of defensive measure as to what the market was going to evolve into. I think it felt like a real period of change. In the UK, James Daunt took over running Waterstones, and he was then ultimately going to run Barnes & Noble. It felt like a bit of a watershed. I think we were lucky in that sense, that maybe in the UK and in London, what we were creating coincided with an opening up of opportunity and creativity, and people wanting access to more tools to be able to do things themselves. Getting this idea that you invest in your own talent and what that could mean for your ability to do things quicker, better. Some of it was happenstance, but lucky for us. As you say, we then became aware that in a sense a lot of these things had come to fruition earlier on the US side. In London, that whole idea of setting up something that wasn't a traditional rights-owning model, but where you wanted to be working with people creatively, felt actually really exciting and timely. Jo: And when you started to work with independent authors, probably a couple of years after that, you started to work with a lot more indie authors and things really started to change in terms of the business side. Did you feel any of the snobbery from the traditional industry? Like you mentioned, you have a lot of contacts, a lot of connections. I came to your wonderful launch party and there were just people from all over the industry. I wondered if you got any kickback, or if anyone raised their eyebrows a little bit at who you were choosing to work with? John: Oh, definitely. And I would say I really think that's gone. You may think differently, Jo, but from my perspective, I think there has been such an evolution in the nearly 15 years that we've been going. So any of that residual snobbery, looking down your nose at people that were going DIY, producing multiple books, learning from every single publication. We've spoken about this before. I remember you sat on the panel of a FutureBook conference in the UK, which was run by a trade magazine, with this idea of looking at the, in quotes, “digital future of the business.” It felt like there were a lot of things being talked about, but not a lot of action on the traditional side. I suppose some sort of awe that there was some magic going on with people who were making a success of self-publishing. But then quite a lot of people looking down their noses at things that shouldn't get through the gatekeepers. I do think that's gone. Or if it's not completely gone, I can see it on the way out of the door, because there's no room for that when agents are struggling to sell books to publishers because publishers are looking at the next indie author, the next Freida McFadden, the next Sarah J. Maas, the next Rebecca Yarros. So whoever it may be, or wherever they're publishing, whatever they're doing now, wherever they may be, knowing that a lot of those people will already be publishing and be on not their first, second, third or fourth, but potentially their 10th or 11th book. It's a race to see who can help those authors, as a traditional publisher would see it, amplify what they're doing. I think the idea that there's an us and them, if it did exist then, which it certainly did in certain publishing quarters, is gone. I used to go to those conferences, like the FutureBook Conference, and certain publishers would talk about publishing, and when they meant publishing, they meant a really tiny area of quite literary, traditional imprints. That's what publishing meant. They didn't even mean publishing to mean educational publishing, or children's publishing, or academic publishing, and certainly not Kindle or POD or whatever. So I think that's had to change for very good, sound, commercial, economic reasons. Jo: Yes, you're right. I definitely have heard, as we go to similar events sometimes, and you do hear agents used to talk a lot more about finding books very occasionally in a slush pile, or doing courses so you could meet people and do pitch events and all this. Now it's often build an audience on BookTok or whatever, and sell lots of books, and traditional publishing as an amplifier, as you said. That's how I always hear them pitch it now, the question of— What can traditional publishing still do when indie authors can do so much? It does seem to be, well, we can amplify you, we can get you into traditional press, we can get you in traditional bookstores, we can help you with film and movie deals, that kind of thing. So that's really interesting, because that's actually changed quite a lot. They don't now seem to say, “Oh, well, we can make sure we pay you,” or, “We are editorial success as such.” John: I think they don't say editorial success or quality or indeed marketing, because that was what used to be said. I think there's an understanding that a lot of indie writers are better marketeers of their own books than traditional publishers, and if you go into the publishing machine, then you'll get your slot. It lasts for a certain period of time and then that moves on to another book. Whereas obviously if you're writing your own book and you're marketing your own book, you're able to do that yourself 24/7 wherever you are in the world, and you will know more about your readers and your audience and how that evolves than a traditional publisher would. What they probably mean now is, as you said, as much as anything, distribution, or even physical distribution. Because to be part of that process, I think that is still where a large conglomerate is able to wield some muscle, with this idea that if you physically want to see your book in bricks and mortar retailers in X outlets around the world, that's potentially easier to do if that is your aim, via a traditional publisher. So it is constantly evolving, because it used to be that marketing was the silver bullet, and I don't think that's the case anymore. Jo: No. We'll come back to marketing, shall we? Struggling with marketing. So let's get into your book. You recently co-wrote Going Indie with James Silver, Publishing Your Book Your Way. Obviously you already knew a lot about indie authors, so I wonder, what did you discover in the process of researching the book and the interviews you did? And I was one of your interviews. Did anything come up that surprised you, since you're already pretty embedded in the world? John: I would say some of it was reinforcing what I knew. So how everything is so intertwined, how in some ways unlinear everything is. People are doing lots of things in a different order to the way that traditionally writers would perceive this relay race of a manuscript gets passed to an editor, an editor passes on. That's just not how it is or needs to be anymore. I still think there is—not even a misconception—but I think there's a received wisdom that when you're talking about self-publishing, you're talking about fiction. The majority of books that Whitefox produces are not fiction, they're non-fiction. Some of them are quite mainstream, some of them are quite niche. That idea of connecting to your audience and your followers, and being slightly more scientific about how you find readers in your non-fiction niche, I think is still unspoken about in a way, in that genre fiction tends to be what people automatically assume the conversation is about. This probably doesn't surprise you, but I was pleasantly surprised to have it confirmed to me quite how much swapping and sharing there is of skills and knowledge in that space. I'm not saying indie writing is egoless at all, but there's quite a lot of sharing of knowledge and what works, and collaboration, which I think is great to see. Again, if you've, as I did many years ago, come out of corporate conglomerate publishing, traditional publishing, there's less of that by the very nature of the kind of organisation. And look, we just talked about marketing a little while ago. I do think this whole idea that the cutting edge of experimentation, it's not traditional publishing, it's indie writers. They are looking at not just how to find readers, but how to fulfil orders, how to make commercial sense of what they're doing from the absolute outset and get-go of what they're doing. And just how now the lines are blurring between what would be classified as traditional digital publishers and the writers who are doing their own thing, or doing their own thing on behalf of a few other writers. Those lines have completely blurred. There used to be this traditional hardback, paperback, X number of books a year, a year after hardback there's a paperback. This is the model we have been doing for centuries, and people doing things on their own. I think that's blurring massively, and the Venn diagrams of people's areas of expertise are just overlapping massively. Jo: Well, I think you're right there, and certainly the hardback special editions with sprayed edges and foil. A lot of us now are doing that first and not putting out the other, or putting out the rest of it at the same time. I dare say probably there are more indie authors with sprayed edge hardbacks than there are traditionally published authors. John: I'm sure that's right. And what's interesting is if you go to a traditional book printer, they are loving the direct communication with writers, that's not coming through traditional channels and traditional relationships. It's great business, it's interesting. I think that's something that's even developed in the last couple of years, that cutting out of some of the middle men required. Jo: Yes, and in terms of supporting freelancers and small publishing houses and printers and stuff, the other thing I've heard is that indie authors pay upfront, or they pay quickly, compared to some of these big publishers who are asking for long lead times and steep discounting. So actually a lot of these independent businesses are doing better under indie author work than they were under traditional. John: I think that's right, and that's what I mean also about the sharing of information and this collaborative idea of sharing creative knowledge. I mean, I'm making it sound like a kind of 19th century cooperative, which it isn't. I'm not suggesting that for a second. It's this idea that there's a lot of people learning a lot of things and there's a keenness to share some of that information, because if you've developed your own readership for your unique creative product, some of those learnings are very exciting. The printers I've spoken to love working on those kinds of things, because they are also being challenged to come up with new ways of developing ever more innovative physical product. Jo: Yes, I think it's a fun, creative time for sure. Things like Kickstarter, which you came on and talked about crowdfunding years ago, and I've obviously done. I think, what am I on now? Seven? I've just done my seventh. John: Wow. Jo: It's so much fun. But now what's happening is traditional publishers are arriving on Kickstarter and all that kind of thing. So we really see a blurring. Let's come back to your book, so Going Indie. You co-wrote it. Now obviously there are lots of positive sides of collaboration, but in terms of any challenges with collaboration and co-writing and the writing process of doing this? Because I've done this several times and I've found it very challenging. So tell us about the collaborative writing process. John: We thought a lot about it before we took it on. What I would say, having done it, is I am assuming there is no formula for how you do this. At Penguin I worked with a married couple who were crime writers, and they wrote books together. They merged their names so it appeared to be one name. I could not tell you, and they didn't share what that process was, whether they were writing different chapters or … I don't know. So I can only speak from my own experience. James is an established journalist. He's great with deadlines. He was very good at chivvying me along when I needed to be persuaded to hit the deadlines that I'd promised. I write blogs, I write newsletters, I write content for our website, but this is my first book. I've never written anything of this length. So in a way it started with the structure. It started with this idea that we would play to what we perceived as our respective strengths in terms of writing. We absolutely were not each writing every third word or anything like that. It was a process of trust in different parts. I thought, James had done some research and will be better at writing that. He deferred to me on areas that he took to be my areas of expertise. We did every interview for the book together. We went over the notes from those before they became part of the interviews for the book. And some of the book's elements are diagrammatic, so those are very easy to collaborate on. I think we tried to be professionally, creatively constructive with each other. So it was raising an eyebrow rather than shouting at each other if we didn't agree about something. A lot of it was down to the editing, and I don't know what your experience was like with a co-writer, but a lot of it came down to: here is something which is quite baggy. How do we, between us, make this as tight as we possibly can? I don't mean copy editing or proofreading. I mean the actual sort of, how do we get this into a pithy, usable, practical but discursive book? We didn't ever set out for this to be a pure reference book at all. We wanted to take a snapshot of what was going on. So a lot of it was genuinely trying to do some research and get people to feed into what was going on from lots of different perspectives, which is why we wanted to get mainstream traditional publishers, we wanted to get agents, we wanted to get indie writers, we wanted to get people who have all sorts of experiences and perspectives. That's what makes it what it is, which is, here's what we think are some of the interesting discussion points of what's going on now. Jo: It is a fantastic snapshot. I think it's really interesting—and obviously you also have seen my book, Successful Self-Publishing, which is on its fourth edition—this is one of the difficult things with snapshot type books. So have you already thought about that? I know this one has just come out, but have you thought, “Oh no, in five years we have to do it again”? John: Well, I think we thought we're going to have to address AI, which we do in the book, and we really tried to caveat that with saying, look, so much may change so quickly, and here we are talking about what we know now. We obviously tried to set the context for where we are now, and we tried as much as possible to make something which would last as long as we can. I think what we did think was, we have tried to make it as international a perspective as possible. But at the same time, we are a London-based agency, and a lot of the views will be from people based in the UK. So I think what I would like to explore is something that looks at potentially somewhere like the US, where I think there'll be different people that would perhaps have different perspectives on different things. So I think we thought about potentially there being future iterations of the book, but not yet. Jo: Not yet. This is the challenge with non-fiction, of course. On that, I would say what you just said around the US and stuff, the successful UK authors all use the same systems as the US. So I wouldn't say that the US … I mean, we all have the US companies we all use. I say Kobo is obviously Canadian, but I would say that we use the same ways of doing things. Obviously you might interview a different author, but … John: That was all I meant. I meant interviewing. Because we've interviewed agents and authors and publishers and they are largely UK based. So it was the idea that maybe there are some perspectives on things rather than systemic. Jo: Differences. John: Yes. Just that. Jo: So then I guess another challenge, we've kind of nodded to it so far, is marketing. So let's talk about the challenges of getting this book out in terms of publishing and marketing. Because you've been on the inner circle side, trying to do that for other people's books, but your own book, this is a whole nother thing. So tell us about that. John: Well, how do you do it, Jo? I mean, honestly, I've loved some of it. I get how you become completely obsessed with your book and trying to make sure that you can get it into the hands of the people that you want to get it into the hands of. We've got some great endorsement quotes, which was a task that, how can I say this? I would call it pride swallowing. The idea that you really try and get people to say nice things about your book and, if they don't reply, you think, “How much do I pester them? How much do I annoy them by asking them again nicely?” And the absolute sheer unadulterated joy when they come back with something positive that you can use and utilise in some way. So that whole process of waiting for feedback, I suppose, and hoping that people are going to like what you've done and help you spread the word for it. We had a launch event, we've given books away. We've published the book as ebook and POD. I think one of the great things about that is it's enabled us to be completely adaptable and make changes right up until the last minute. That drove everybody in my team completely crazy because we were making changes up until the last minute. So, is the book definitely going to be available on publication date? What's it going to do? You know, all of that kind of stuff. Also, just getting this idea that I suppose you can never stop. Is that a very obvious thing to say to a writer? It probably is. You just can't stop, because if you go, “Right, well, I've done it,” complacency is the enemy. Just as soon as you've got that quote, or someone said that they're going to give you an opportunity to talk about it on a platform, it's just another day and you've got to keep thinking about how you can spread the word and tell people that it exists. Jo: Yes, well, I think that's right, and particularly non-fiction, which unless it's very timely and you must get it out right now. But other than that— Most books you just have to keep marketing for years. Then just as you say, when do you stop? Well, you kind of never stop unless you want to, unless you want to retire and just give up, basically. Dean Wesley Smith, who's a big writer in the US and a kind of a mentor of mine in past years, he talks about it as this massive sea of books. And when a book arrives, he pictures it coming down and landing on the water. So the day you launch, it's landed on the water, and then it begins to sink. Then there are all these other books coming down. It's like this rain of books, and your book is sinking as soon as it lands. And your job is to keep it afloat somehow. John: Keep it afloat. Jo: Yes. John: I think you're right, and it's such an interesting perspective for us, who work with a lot of people who have one book. You know, they've spent 10 years writing it. It's their life story. It's their memoir. It's their self-help book. It's their book that accompanies them on their speaking journey, or whatever. Then there are the people who are writing constantly and can't stop writing because they're exercising that creative muscle all the time and wanting to get better, and wanting to improve and learn and understand why this works and why that hasn't worked. Just getting a glimpse into what it must be like for that person for whom writing is not a hobby. I kept saying to myself, “This is not something you're doing as a hobby.” I want this book to be of value to people, and if I'm investing that time and effort into something that I want to get out there, you've got to commit to whatever it is you need to do to make sure you're not sinking. Jo: Yes. John: I will now not be able to get that image out of my head. Jo: Yes. I know there's people listening who don't have a mind's eye, which I always find fascinating, but for those of us with a mind's eye, you can now picture that and you will never forget it. The other thing, I guess, is that, having done a lot, over 40 books now, the inevitable thing is you cannot keep pushing all of those books back up to the surface. So when you do get the bug as such of writing, the most interesting thing for all of us is always the next book. It's always like, ooh, the next thing I'm doing, I'm very excited about. So you do have to pick your battles on marketing. So have you got the bug, do you think? Are you thinking of other books in general? Because as you said, you must be, I guess, in your 60s. John: I am. Jo: You could retire. John: I am. You were talking about that long career. I could. I mean, I really love doing it, and I would love to do more. I think one of the things that surprised me was just how many ideas came up while we were doing the book about tangents that one could take it. I have no desire to write a novel. I don't want to do that. I wouldn't be very good at that. I do think there are some interesting spaces around where there's a kind of intersection of creativity and learning, and how you can develop books that would help people who are trying to achieve different things in different sectors of publishing. So without getting too granular about it, this book doesn't really address brands who want to become publishers, and I think that is something that our business has developed into working with, not just individuals, but businesses and brands. I think there's definitely spin-offs of this book which are not about repeating what we've done so far. And this whole idea of what you've been doing for a long time, what we've been doing since 2011, 2012, it's evolving now at such a speed. I mean, who would have known what was going to come out of TikTok? As you talk about TikTok to Shopify, that whole kind of new ways of finding readers, of taking books to market. As you said, Kickstarter, crowdfunding. There's all sorts of things that I think will emerge, because in a funny sort of way traditional publishing at the moment feels quite conservative with a small c. I mean, the bestsellers. Dan Brown is number one in the bestseller list this week in the UK as I speak, who has been a bestseller forever. And obviously new writers come along the whole time, but the market feels a little bit as if it's waiting now for innovation. I think if that innovation's going to happen, it's probably going to happen in the indie space before it happens in mainstream publishing. So people are coming to us and thinking, does that represent a trend? Does that represent something which could be a way of looking at something a little bit deeper, doing some research around and creating something which is not a long book, not a massive thesis, but something which is indicative of something which could be useful for people. Jo: Just coming back on the Dan Brown is in the bestseller list. I think this is completely to do with the way that traditional publishing measures things. For many years, more than a decade, probably since the beginning of Kindle, certainly the beginning of Kindle Unlimited, there is a shadow economy, I call it, or a parallel economy. I would say that almost zero of my own personal sales are measured by any industry standards. Anyone who makes any money from Kindle Unlimited or Kickstarter or Shopify, or selling direct in any form, or selling books at conventions, none of this is measured by any traditional things. As you know, the New York Times list, for example, does not include Amazon sales in their bestseller list. So you've got indie authors in the UK who are incredibly successful who have to decide, say, someone like LJ Ross, for example, decides, “Okay, I'm going to set up a proper imprint with Gardners or whatever so that I can get in bookstores so that I can hit a Sunday Times list or something.” So I would say that seeing things like Dan Brown on a bestseller list has almost no meaning in the shadow indie economy. John: No, you're absolutely right. We're not even able to see audiobook sales. Jo: Yes, audio. Any kind of borrows, like Spotify. John: No, you're completely right. I suppose I was making a broader cultural point, that it doesn't feel like there's an enormous amount of innovation going on or risk taking within what I would call mainstream trade publishing. And there doesn't seem to be the need to be, because there will be more consolidation. Small companies will be bought by big companies, so there's growth through acquisition. There's still a hope that something will take off that is a surprise, and there's still an enormous reliance on established brands who, even through the traditional metrics of how you measure them, are probably selling less, but still at the top of the pile. I suppose that's what I was meaning. Jo: Yes, and I agree with what the industry looks at as signals. It's just, as we said, a lot of these signals are invisible. So coming onto innovation, at London Book Fair this year there were a lot of sessions on AI, and you mentioned AI briefly, and there is a chapter in Going Indie on generative AI. And of course there's a lot of negativity and drama and lawsuits and this, that and the other. But at the same time, at London Book Fair, a lot of traditional publishers talking about using it, and of course they always say, “Oh, we use AI only in marketing and business, not with the creative or editorial.” Everyone makes this distinction. What are your thoughts on what's happening and where's it going with AI? Is a lot of this stuff not happening in public and just going on behind closed doors? John: I think so. We do have a chapter in the book on AI. We've generated summaries of every chapter using AI, which we explicitly said in the book as well. We've got our Ten Commandments of what we think are useful guidelines. I think that there has to be an enormous amount being done, whether it's experimentation or speeding up for efficiency's sake, or things that slow you down, within mainstream publishing. There has to be more than just the guardrails around the creative process. And clearly when we're talking about metadata, book description, cover copy, presumably royalty calculations, presumably if you're trying to grow your newsletters. There has to be an enormous amount of activity going on. We're driven by the market, so we do not commission. Writers come to us and they either want to work with us and we want to work with them, or that doesn't happen. So we're in a sense seeing what the market is seeing, and that is a whole range of things. As I've said before, there's a lot of sweeping generalisations out there, which if you look back to that Kindle moment, we were talking a little while ago about what was going on in 2010/2011, about the enormous broad brush strokes that were being perceived as a result of Kindle. Kindle has affected some areas of publishing, it's affected some not at all. I think it will be absolutely fascinating when the sweeping generalisations stop and there becomes, I suppose, even more transparency. The thing that people are looking for, isn't it? A little bit less opaqueness as to what is really being done. Because everybody's being so careful about what they say they're doing and what they're not doing. I suppose ElevenLabs is the one where people are openly engaging on the audio side. I mean, everyone is being so careful and cautious. Jo: Me too. John: What do you think? We spoke a bit about AI within the book, and I'm interested to know what you think. Jo: Well, I've obviously been openly talking about it since 2016. I openly talk about using it, and I've got my Patreon community where we talk about how we're using it, and tips on how to use it. But then, because I have been writing and publishing since 2007, 2008, I'm very strong in my creative voice. I'm very strong in my understanding of what I consider to be my level of output, and what I publish under my own name is what I publish under my own name. John: Totally. Jo: So the problem is for people who are less confident, I think, in what they're doing creatively perhaps. I know some people feel like they're scared it will take over or something. When you're as strong-minded as me, it's not taking over anything. John: It's not going to take over anything. And the other side of the coin is how many people are finding Whitefox using ChatGPT. Jo: Mm. John: I'm thrilled that we are emerging, through very detailed briefing of AI, as something that is worth engaging with. Jo: Positive marketing. John: Yes, exactly. As you say, I think there's a lot of negativity, and I think it will settle down eventually. I think less hysteria. Jo: Yes, hopefully sooner rather than later. So as we come to an end, you've been in the publishing industry a long time and seen a lot of people who have disappeared, but also those who've lasted. I wondered if maybe you could comment on those who last, because I definitely feel like I'm in my 50s now, and I want to keep doing this. I'm pretty obsessed with— What are the hallmarks of people who have a long-term career? So reflections on that. John: Oh, that's such a good question. I think there's some common characteristics and themes. So I think authenticity, I think this idea of being continually curious. I think there are people who can't help but create, and this idea that once you've sort of expelled once, that's enough. I think there's people that just can't stop creating, whatever you do with it. But this idea that the more you do, the better you get, the more you evolve and keep an open mind. I think there's definitely entrepreneurial writers who love this idea of keeping their readers engaged, and how that conversation is something that evolves and that collaboration evolves, is fascinating. I think if you love that, and you listen, there's always an opportunity to keep building on what you do. I love the writers who we work with. I can think of a writer who we're working on his fourth novel at the moment, and he is a bundle of positivity. No matter the trials and tribulations, the things that have gone wrong, his expectations definitely not being met with his first book. He definitely has this idea that he wants to keep writing, he wants to get better, and he is getting better. It isn't a journey that has a beginning and an end. It's something that will continue for as long as he wants to write. Every single book that he has published, he has learned and gained confidence, gained a network of connections that he's utilised himself now to not make the first half a dozen mistakes he made on the first book. Who knows where it will end up? But certainly the satisfaction he's getting, and the sales he's getting, are growing as he becomes savvier and quicker to make the right choices and decisions. So I think that's my honest answer to that. I think there are definitely people who think, “Phew, I have really wanted to do this book. Now I can rest easy. I've done my book.” Then there are people who really, whatever their objective, whatever the definition of success is from the get-go, just can't help creating. I do love that and respect that. I don't think our book falls quite into that category, because I think it's a slightly different thing. I think there are people who are still making a success of what they do and redefining that as they go on, and who are really open to ideas and input from different people and are not closed off. I love working with those people. Jo: So where can people find Going Indie and everything you do online? John: Well, Going Indie is available online at all good bookshops. It's available at Amazon and anywhere you buy books online as ebook and POD. Our website is wearewhitefox.com, and you'll find information about not just our book there, but a lot of other things that we're doing on that site. Jo: Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for your time, John. That was great. John: Thank you so much, Jo. It's been a pleasure. The post Going Indie, Publishing Innovation, And The Challenges Of Book Marketing With John Bond first appeared on The Creative Penn.

What if instead of asking "how do I sell this book?" we asked "who did God call me to serve, and how do I build a real relationship with her?"Thanks for helping me give glory to God for five years of podcasting and serving you in 145 different countries.

Are you tired of chasing clients, posting constantly, and wondering whether any of it is actually helping your book or business?What if the right clients could discover you, learn from you, and decide they want to work with you before you ever speak?This week's guest is Helmi Hasan, an engineer-turned-marketer and founder of a thriving consultancy that helps non-technical entrepreneurs use AI and YouTube to attract clients without paid ads or becoming full-time influencers.Helmi explains why YouTube isn't just another social media platform demanding more content. Used strategically, it can become a searchable library of your expertise that continues building trust long after you publish each video.During our conversation, you'll discover how to turn the ideas already inside your book into valuable videos, make your online presence easier for both people and AI to understand, and position yourself as the expert clients are already looking for.You'll also learn:Why attracting clients requires a very different mindset from chasing themHow to use your book as a ready-made source of YouTube contentWhat might be confusing potential clients about your online presenceHow AI can help you uncover the questions your audience is already askingWhy you don't need to become an entertainer to succeed on YouTubeHow podcast interviews and testimonials can strengthen your credibilityWhat helps AI tools recognize and recommend you as a trusted expertCould the content you've already created become the reason your next client finds you?Listen in to discover how YouTube and AI can help turn your expertise into a steady source of visibility, authority, and inbound opportunities.Here's how to connect with Helmi:WebsiteYouTubeLinkedInFree offers from Helmi:Skool - How to Start a YouTube channel that makes you the authority in your niche.Video starter kit*************************************************************************What Should I Do When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming?You poured your heart into writing your book because you wanted to make a difference. It deserves to be discovered.If marketing feels confusing, frustrating, or like you're spinning your wheels, the Author Influencer Circle will help you build authority, attract opportunities, and market your book with clarity and confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and discover how your book can open doors to speaking, clients, partnerships, and meaningful income.*************************************************************************

If you're preparing to publish a book but have no email list, few followers, and no established readership, this episode gives you a clear place to start. Jenn breaks down a practical 90-day book marketing plan for building your author platform, connecting with your ideal readers, growing your email list, and creating interest in your book before launch. You'll learn what to focus on during each 30-day phase, what you can safely postpone, and why you don't need a massive audience to launch your book successfully.LINKSThe Book Marketing BlueprintThe New Author Marketing PlaybookDone-WITH-You Sessions

✍️ Want to start writing online? Download this free Ultimate Guide to get started: https://yt.startwritingonline.com 

My guest today on the Online for Authors podcast is Kevin M Hall. He is the author of Book Marketing on a Budget and will chat with us about inexpensive marketing strategies. Kevin M. Hall is a memoirist, storyteller, and independent author. He is the author of multiple books including Ilion: My Childhood, My Memories, My Rosemount MN Memories, SIGNS – The Veil is Thinner Than We Imagine, and Book Marketing on a Budget – Simple Steps for New Authors.   Kevin began writing after his grandchildren repeatedly asked what life was like when he was growing up. That simple question opened a door to stories that blend memory, history, spiritual awakening, and practical insight—and sometimes a bit of humor only hindsight can provide. Kevin is an author who favors lived experience over theory, and steady progress over hype for readers who value authenticity. He writes reflective, practical books drawn from real life—helping readers find meaning, clarity, and steady progress without false promises.   Kevin's writing style has been described as easy to read, atmospheric, and reminiscent of The Wonder Years and Boy Meets World. His books are sprinkled with photographs, well-chosen quotes, and historical tidbits that bring each story to life, making readers feel both nostalgia and connection.   Kevin also writes practical nonfiction for self-published authors. His book, Book Marketing on a Budget – Simple Steps for New Authors, shares real-world strategies for helping writers find their audience, grow readership, and expand recognition without spending a fortune. Drawing on his own experience, Kevin shows how clarity, consistency, and thoughtful promotion can turn a personal project into a book that actually reaches the readers it was written for.   Kevin is a husband of nearly fifty years, a father, and a grandfather. He lives with his wife in Rush, New York, just outside Rochester, surrounded by family, laughter, and the occasional grandchild chaos. Before becoming an author, Kevin worked as a programmer and project manager and is the holder of U.S. Patent 8,156,416 B2 related to enhancement of document security.   In my book review, I stated Book Marketing on a Budget is a fantastic marketing resource written by ​Kevin M Hall​. If you are a new/newer author and don't know where to start marketing or have tried a few things but don't know where to go from there, then this is the book for you.   Kevin provides 19 free or inexpensive marketing tips complete with step by step instructions and even samples of his own use of the tips. He even helps you see where to start and where you can eventually move to as you "graduate" from elementary marketing. I really love his one month marketing plan that will guide authors on their journey toward getting their book out in front of their readers.   This is a great book for authors who need some inexpensive marketing tips. Don't miss it.   Subscribe to Online for Authors to learn about more great books! https://www.youtube.com/@onlineforauthors?sub_confirmation=1   You can follow Author Kevin M Hall. He is the Website: https://kevin-hall.com/ FB: @Kevin Hall LinkedIn: @khall4   Purchase Book Marketing on a Budget on Amazon: Paperback: https://amzn.to/3Semi4O Ebook: https://amzn.to/4usismd   Teri M Brown, Author and Podcast Host: https://www.terimbrown.com FB: @TeriMBrownAuthor IG: @terimbrown_author X: @terimbrown1   Want to be a guest on Online for Authors? Send Teri M Brown a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/member/onlineforauthors   #kevinmhall #bookmarketingonabudget #authorcraft #marketing #terimbrownauthor #authorpodcast #onlineforauthors #characterdriven #researchjunkie #awardwinningauthor #podcasthost #podcast #readerpodcast #bookpodcast #writerpodcast #author #books #goodreads #bookclub #fiction #writer #bookreview *As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

How do you make marketing your book work for you? The inclination can be to get it in front of as many people as possible, with as much exposure as you can. But does that actually work? Microcosm's own Marketing & Publicity Specialist, Daley Farr, is back on the pod this week with Joe and Elly to talk about marketing, why knowing your target audience is better than just getting into Target,  and how the media landscape is changing.************Thank you for catching the People's Guide to Publishing vlogcast!  We post new episodes every Thursday about publishing, authors, and the book industry. You can also listen via your preferred podcast app, or by visiting linktree.com/microcosmGet the book: https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/3663Get the workbook: https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/10031More from Microcosm: http://microcosmpublishing.comMore by Joe Biel: http://joebiel.netMore by Elly Blue: http://takingthelane.comSubscribe to our monthly email newsletter: http://eepurl.com/gIXT6vFind us on social media:Facebook: http://facebook.com/microcosmpublishingBlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/microcosm.bsky.socialInstagram: http://instagram.com/microcosm_pub************

Most authors have plenty of ideas, but struggle to turn those ideas into a book that is both authentic and successful. Today's guest, Steve Kidd of Thriving Bestsellers, has spent over 40 years helping entrepreneurs uncover their true voice and transform it into bestselling books. He's worked with more than 5,000 authors and contributed to 42 #1 international bestsellers, giving him a rare depth of insight into what it really takes to stand out in a crowded marketplace. In this episode, Steve dives into why self-discovery is the critical first step in authorship. Steve explains that most people are writing from the identity others assigned them; parents, teachers, spouses, instead of the person they actually are. He shares why your book becomes a powerful tool for transformation when it's rooted in your authentic self, not in borrowed quotes or imitated styles. Rather than staring at a blank page, Steve recommends writing your book via interview, capturing real, spontaneous stories and insights that sound like you, then shaping that raw conversation into a compelling manuscript. Steve tackles the rise of AI in writing head-on. Steve isn't anti-AI; in fact, he shows how it can be incredibly powerful when you feed it deeply personal, accurate information about who you are and who you serve. But he warns that most AI-generated books are “garbage in, garbage out” generic content stitched together from other people's work, with no real voice or originality. The difference between a soulless AI book and a powerful, AI-assisted bestseller is whether you've done the hard work of knowing yourself and clearly defining your reader. From there, the conversation shifts to the part almost no one plans for: real book marketing. Steve explains that a book is a product like any other, and it needs both a marketing plan and a marketing budget to perform. He breaks down why simply “hitting bestseller” on launch day is not a strategy, and why most authors stall out after release because they have no follow-up campaign. Steve shares how verified purchaser reviews, ongoing promotion, and a realistic ad budget (or equivalent time investment) make the difference between a book that quietly disappears and one that consistently brings in readers, clients, and opportunities. https://youtu.be/v59jrjgMpAg?si=H8oXoO8ZYFvRPApP If you've ever thought, “I'll just let AI write my book,” or assumed that if you “build it, they will come,” this episode will challenge those myths and give you a grounded, hopeful path forward. Whether your book is just an idea, half-finished on your hard drive, or already published and underperforming, Steve offers a practical, encouraging way to bring your real voice to the page, and then get that book into the hands of the people who need it most. To explore your options for done-with-you or done-for-you support, head over to AskSteveKidd.com (that's Kidd with two Ds) and see how Steve and his team can help you turn your message into a true bestseller. Quotes: “Most of the biggest problem people have with the book they write is they're thinking they're supposed to write a specific book because of a trend or something somebody told them to do.” “Step one is knowing who are you, who are you writing to, and then what do they need; knowing those three elements before you do anything else.” “Every product has to have a marketing plan and a marketing budget, whatever that is, and most people launch the book, hit bestseller, get excited, and then do nothing to follow it up.” Contact Details: Visit the Thriving Best Sellers Website to Start Your Publishing Journey Today Connect with Steve Kidd on LinkedIn for Proven Bestseller & Business Growth Strategies Your Bestselling Journey Starts Here; Follow Steve Kidd on Instagram Today Ready to Become a Bestselling Author? Follow Steve Kidd on Facebook Get Expert Publishing Guidance; Book Your Personal Strategy Session with Steve Kidd

We are joined by authors Jon McBrine, Jessica Martini, Laura Morris, C.K. Scott, Michael Vadney and Cyndi Brec to talk all things Marketing. We discuss things that work, social media tricks and a whole lot more.   Guest details: Jon McBrine - Website: jonmcbrine.com   Jessica Martini - website: jessicamartini.com.au   Laura Morris - Website: lauramorriswriter.com Laura's book: https://hawkeyebooks.com.au/products/the-wall-within  Laura's upcoming events:  Sunshine Coast Book Launch: https://www.trybooking.com/events/landing/1608584 Brisbane Book Launch:  https://www.trybooking.com/events/landing/1608584   CK Scott - IG: @authorckscott CK's Linktree: https://linktr.ee/authorckscott   Michael Vadney - Website: michaelvadney.com   Cyndi Brec - Website: https://cyndibrecauthor.wordpress.com/   Support the Rings Of Adventure Kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rvb1/rings-of-adventure-anthology     Podcast Website: thetrueandthefictional.com Contact the show: thetrueandthefictional@gmail.com Support the show: Buymeacoffee.com/sttatf Buy Merch: Jabryden.printify.me   Follow us on the socials: FB: Facebook.com/storiesthetrueandthefictional IG: @stories_podcast X: @stories_ttatf Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzIXhRcUvPPAzpCL-_a9N4w   Dropbear/logo designed by Mike Crumbs: Cartooncrumbs.com   Sponsor 1: Rebecca Cassells Buy her books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/.../e/B08WCH6RHG/ X: RACassells_auth IG: Rebecca.cassells.92 FB: Facebook.com/RebeccacassellsbooksTikTok: @rebeccacassellsauthor   Sponsor 2: J.A. Bryden  Website: Jabryden.com Socials: @jabryden   Indie Book Award Winners 2025:   Janelle Schiecke: Socials: J_Schiecke Buy her books: https://www.amazon.com.au/stores/author/B0CCXHKVGH/allbooks?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=aufs_ap_ahdr_dsk_ab&pd_rd_w=XSV9m&content-id=amzn1.sym.b4344408-bcb0-46d7-b9b0-ac31160009fa&pf_rd_p=b4344408-bcb0-46d7-b9b0-ac31160009fa&pf_rd_r=358-0097934-1431222&pd_rd_wg=8hy1R&pd_rd_r=f0f7368c-365a-4c1c-8cc2-4a75595b0f92   Alexander Rob: Socials: @TheStarwald Website: Alexanderrob.com   #indieauthorpodcast #meettheauthor #books #indiebooks #booktube

What if finishing your book isn't the finish line—but the starting line?Most writers learn how to complete a manuscript.Far fewer learn how to build a lasting writing career, develop a loyal audience, and create momentum that continues from one book to the next.In this episode of The MISOGI Method, Jody B. Miller talks with award-winning author, ghostwriter, editor, and publishing expert Lana McAra.Lana has written or ghostwritten more than 50 books, sold over one million copies, and earned numerous honors—including the national Christy Award, the Global Book Award, and the Silver Royal Palm Literary Award.Her Colorado mystery series alone sold more than 250,000 copies.She is also the founder of Vendela Publishing, an author-owned, “UN-traditional” publishing company with global distribution that keeps no royalties and holds no rights.Lana reveals why excellent books often remain invisible, what professional authors understand about building a body of work, and how writers can create genuine relationships with readers—without depending entirely on social media algorithms.She also shares how she wrote 27 books while homeschooling seven children, and why a writer's deepest secrets may become the emotional key to a powerful story.In This Episode, You'll Discover:• Why writing one book is different from building a writing career• The three foundations of becoming a successful career author• Why many genuinely good books never find their readers• How to create a connected body of work that builds momentum• The importance of audience alignment before publishing• How reader experience turns interest into emotional investment• How to convert first-time readers into loyal fans• Why authors need a support network instead of doing everything alone• How Lana wrote 27 books while homeschooling seven children• Practical ways to keep writing when life is already full• Why vulnerability and personal truth create memorable stories• How writers can use painful experiences without revealing everything• What separates an amateur manuscript from a professional book• The questions every author should ask before signing a publishing agreement• Why authors must understand their royalties, rights, and distribution• The creative opportunities available to women over 50• Lana's advice for anyone who believes it may be too late to write a book• The first steps aspiring authors can take to begin building a lasting careerAbout Lana McAraLana McAra is an award-winning, international bestselling author and ghostwriter of more than 50 books, with over one million copies sold.She has taught fiction writing for more than 20 years and works professionally as an editor, book coach, ghostwriter, and publisher.Her honors include the national Christy Award, the Literary Titan Silver Book Award, the Book Excellence Award, the Global Book Award, the BookFest Award, and the Silver Royal Palm Literary Award.Lana is the founding president of Vendela Publishing, an author-owned publishing company offering global distribution while allowing authors to retain their rights and royalties.Connect With LanaWebsite and free resources:https://LanaMcAra.com Download Lana's free video and ebook:Your Novel Notebook: How to Organize Your Materials and Take Your Novel to the Next LevelVendela Publishing:https://vendelapublishing.com/The Fiction Writers Podcast:https://fictionwriterspodcast.com/YouTube—The Writer's Chair:https://www.youtube.com/@thewriterschairAmazon author page:https://www.amazon.com/stores/Lana-McAra/author/B0BL8SKS9TLinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/lanamcara/Instagram:https://instagram.com/lanamcara2Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-misogi-method-experience-a-new-comfort-zone--2910681/support.

Matty Dalrymple talks with Kevin Hall about BOOK MARKETING ON A BUDGET, including how to pitch print publications, radio stations, and libraries with a brief, targeted email; why alumni associations are an overlooked goldmine for book exposure; how to navigate paid media opportunities; and the three Cs—collaboration, community, and consistency—that underpin sustainable, low-cost author marketing.   Interview video at https://www.youtube.com/@TheIndyAuthorPodcast/podcasts Show notes at https://theindyauthor.substack.com/ (subscribers get exclusive content and benefits).   If you find the information in this video useful, please consider supporting The Indy Author! https://www.patreon.com/theindyauthor https://www.buymeacoffee.com/mattydalrymple   Kevin M. Hall is a memoirist, storyteller, and independent author of four multi-genre, non-fiction books, including his latest: Book Marketing on a Budget – Simple Steps for New Authors. After a 40+ year career in corporate America he began writing, inspired by his grandchildren's questions about what it was like when he was growing up. He favors lived experience over theory and steady progress over hype, sharing practical, low-cost strategies that help authors reach readers through outreach, relationships, and consistency.   Matty Dalrymple is the author of the Lizzy Ballard Thrillers, beginning with ROCK PAPER SCISSORS; the Ann Kinnear Suspense Novels, beginning with THE SENSE OF DEATH; and the Ann Kinnear Suspense Shorts. She is a member of International Thriller Writers and Sisters in Crime. More at mattydalrymple.com. Matty also writes, speaks, and consults on the writing craft and the publishing voyage, and shares what she's learned on THE INDY AUTHOR PODCAST. She writes nonfiction books for authors; her articles have appeared in Writer's Digest magazine; and she is a Partner Member of the Alliance of Independent Authors. More at theindyauthor.com. She also guides professionals in building their presence through a sideline or second act through her platform From Expertise to Authority. More at theindyauthor.com/authority.

In this solo episode of the Thriving Authors Podcast, I'm diving into how to create a marketing plan for your book. Marketing, promoting and launching feel so much less overwhelming when you have a plan in place!I share a few journal prompts that are really helpful to brainstorm and also explain:How to avoid getting completely burned out and not wanting to do any marketing.The best sort of publicity that you can get that will lead to book sales.A menu of ideas that you can get excited about when creating your plan.A mindset shift so you don't feel icky or salesy when sharing about your book.Examples of special little extra goodies you can send to everybody who preorders your book.What materials are really helpful to have ready when you're pitching different media marketing opportunities.And more!And if you are an entrepreneur who wants to write and publish the book inside your heart, I'd love for you to join me in my free Facebook group Women Entrepreneurs Becoming Best Selling Authors. We discuss the podcast episodes, I host free challenges and you may even meet your new writing partner to swap pages with!

Send us Fan MailEveryone tells authors they need a platform—but what does that actually mean in today's publishing landscape?In this episode of Talking Book Publishing, Kathleen and Adanna sit down with podcasting and content marketing expert Tracy Hazzard to unpack what an effective author platform looks like today. Tracy explains why social media followers aren't the same as a true platform, why your website should serve as the foundation of your marketing, and how creating consistent content can build lasting authority that continues working long after a single post disappears from a social feed.The conversation also explores practical ways authors can begin building a platform before their book launches. From choosing the right content format—whether that's blogging, podcasting, video, or Substack—to establishing a consistent publishing rhythm, Tracy shares actionable strategies that help authors attract readers, increase discoverability, and build credibility in an increasingly competitive marketplace. If you've ever wondered where to start with book marketing, this episode offers a clear roadmap focused on building your audience rather than chasing algorithms.In this episode, you'll learn: Why your website—not social media—is the foundation of your author platform.  The difference between building followers and building an audience you own.  How consistent content improves discoverability and builds authority.  Why authors should choose the content format they enjoy most.  Practical first steps for creating a sustainable marketing platform before your book launches.Connect With UsKathleen: kathleenkaiser.comAdanna: maddannastudio.comPodcast listeners receive a special 20% off all ProBookLaunch products. Use code TBPLISTENER20 at checkout.Have a topic or guest suggestion?Email us at podcast@talkingbookpublishing.todayJoin the conversation on Instagram: @writerspubsnet

You know what to do. So why aren't you doing it?You want to finish your book. Pitch podcasts. Reach out to organizations. Speak on more stages. Yet somehow, something keeps getting in the way.It's easy to blame a lack of time, confidence, or motivation.But what if the real obstacle is hidden beneath the surface?This week's guest is Nancy Linnerooth, Harvard-trained attorney, licensed therapist, and EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) expert. She explains how subconscious beliefs formed years ago can quietly influence your decisions today, keeping you stuck, invisible, and playing smaller than you're capable of.If you've ever wondered why you procrastinate, second-guess yourself, or hesitate to promote your book, this conversation may give you the missing piece you've been searching for.In this episode you'll discover:Why you keep procrastinating even when you know exactly what to do. The answer may have nothing to do with discipline.The hidden beliefs that stop authors from becoming visible. Fear of criticism isn't the only reason many writers stay in the background.Why success can feel just as frightening as failure. Discover the subconscious fears that can quietly sabotage your best efforts.How tapping (EFT) helps break the cycle of self-sabotage. Learn why this simple technique has helped thousands move past limiting beliefs.How to stop fighting yourself and start moving forward with confidence. Sometimes your subconscious isn't trying to hold you back. It's trying to protect you.If marketing your book feels harder than it should, this episode may help you understand why—and show you a path forward with greater confidence, clarity, and ease. Tune in now to find out.Here's how to connect with Nancy:Download your complimentary Procrastination Breakthrough KitWebsite: https://UnblockResults.comLinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/nancy-linnerooth/Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/nancy.linneroothInstagram:https://www.instagram.com/eftbreakthroughs/*************************************************************************What Should I Do When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming?You poured your heart into writing your book because you wanted to make a difference. It deserves to be discovered.If marketing feels confusing, frustrating, or like you're spinning your wheels, the Author Influencer Circle will help you build authority, attract opportunities, and market your book with clarity and confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and discover how your book can open doors to speaking, clients, partnerships, and meaningful income.*************************************************************************

You can write a great book, have a strong message, and still struggle to gain traction after publication. Why? Too many authors treat their launch as a marketing event instead of a relationship-building opportunity. That's where a launch team changes everything. A launch team is not just a group of people who buy your book. It's a carefully chosen community of readers, supporters, likely prospects, and referral partners who help create momentum before and during your launch. They help generate reviews, spread the word, and create early engagement that gives your book credibility and visibility. But the real magic goes beyond Amazon reviews. A thoughtful launch team strategy helps wake up your network. It creates conversations with people who may not have heard from you in a while. It opens doors to podcasts, speaking opportunities, collaborations, and future clients. Done well, a launch becomes more than a moment. It becomes the beginning of a stronger pipeline from your book to your business. That's the strategy I teach in my fourth book, “LAUNCH Your Book! An Entrepreneur's Guide to Reviews That Drive Revenue.” If you want to build a launch team that creates revenue opportunities, you can find the book, bonus content, and an invitation to schedule a complimentary 30-minute book launch brainstorming session at www.BookLaunchBrainstorm.com. And now, let's meet this week's author panel: Jenn T. Grace wrote "Promote Your Purpose: A Strategic Guide to Book Marketing for Nonfiction Authors Who Want to Grow Their Impact, Influence, and Income," a practical and empowering resource that helps nonfiction authors market their books strategically so they can expand their visibility, strengthen their authority, and create meaningful business growth. Stephen Shapiro wrote "You're Not Playing with a Full Deck: Why the Coworkers Who Drive You Crazy Are Your Unfair Advantage," a thought-provoking leadership book that explores how different thinking styles and workplace personalities can become a source of innovation, collaboration, and stronger team performance. In this episode, we discuss the following:

Your ideal readers may already be looking for your book. So why aren't they buying it?The answer may surprise you.Most authors write and market to people who think just like they do. It feels natural. Unfortunately, it also means they're unintentionally overlooking a large part of their audience.This week's guest is Sheila Glazov, award-winning author, internationally recognized personality expert, and creator of the Brain Color Method. She shares how understanding the different ways people think, communicate, and make decisions can completely change the way you market your book.Imagine knowing why one reader is motivated by facts, another by relationships, another by creativity, and another by action. When you understand these differences, your marketing becomes more effective because you're speaking your readers' language, not just your own.Whether you're writing website copy, networking, speaking, or promoting your book, Sheila offers practical ideas you can start using immediately.In this episode you'll discover:Why your marketing may only be attracting people who think like you. Learn how to spot the readers you're unintentionally leaving behind.The simple shift that helps your book appeal to more people without changing your message. Reach different personality types while staying authentic.How the four Brain Colors influence buying decisions. Discover why some readers want facts, others want stories, and others want possibilities before they say yes.Why knowing your own Brain Color could become your greatest marketing advantage. Your strengths can help you shine, but they can also create blind spots.How to build stronger relationships everywhere you market your book. Sheila shares a memorable strategy that can improve networking, conversations, and even difficult situations.If you've ever wondered why your message resonates with some people but falls flat with others, this conversation could change the way you think about book marketing forever.Tune in for a fresh approach to audience connection and actionable advice you can use today.Here's how to connect with Sheila:Buy your copy of What Color Is Your Brain? Website: https://www.sheilaglzov.comFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/sheilaglazov/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheila-n-glazovaa96237 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sheilaglazov/Blue Sky Social:https://bsky.app/profile/authorsheilaglazov.bsky.social*************************************************************************What Should I Do When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming?You poured your heart into writing your book because you wanted to make a difference. It deserves to be discovered.If marketing feels confusing, frustrating, or like you're spinning your wheels, the Author Influencer Circle will help you build authority, attract opportunities, and market your book with clarity and confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and discover how your book can open doors to speaking, clients, partnerships, and meaningful income.*************************************************************************

What's the key to choosing comp (comparative) titles that pique an agent's curiosity? Should you use films or tv shows? What about huge bestsellers — would those make good comps, and if so, in which circumstances? In today's episode, Kathleen and I discuss an upmarket speculative thriller and discuss comp title choices, killer opening lines and, you guessed it ... exposition! And if you want to read the query letters and first 10 pages writing samples we discuss in these Hook Your Reader episodes, be sure to subscribe to my mailing list. -V. Submit your query letter and first 10 pages writing sample at storynerd.ca.For access to writing templates and worksheets, and more than 70 hours of training (all for free), subscribe to Valerie's Inner Circle.To learn to read like a writer, visit Melanie's website.To subscribe to Kat's Keynotes (Substack), click here.Watch us on YouTube!

In this episode of Brave New Bookshelf, hosts Steph Pajonas and Danica Favorite sit down with bestselling author and CEO of Novel Publicity, Melissa Storm, to explore her fascinating transition from an AI skeptic to a pioneering AI tool creator. Melissa shares how she deconstructed her fifteen years of copywriting expertise to build her signature "Manuscript to Marketing" tool, while also discussing how she trains custom AI personas to preserve her authentic voice. From using AI as an assistive technology for neurodivergence and aphantasia to leveraging the "clunky is sexy" approach for modern Meta advertising, Melissa discusses using technology to amplify—rather than replace—your humanity. Visit our website https://bravenewbookshelf.com to view the full episode notes, links and apps mentioned in the episode, and the full transcript.

What if the secret to selling more books isn't reaching more people, but building deeper relationships with the right people?This week's guest is Elizabeth Henson, CEO of Elizabeth Henson Inc. and founder of the Community Growth Lab. Elizabeth has helped entrepreneurs and creators grow thriving businesses by focusing on one thing many marketers overlook: community.In this conversation, Elizabeth shares why authors don't need massive audiences to make a meaningful impact. Instead, they need genuine connections, consistent engagement, and a willingness to bring readers along for the journey.If you're tired of chasing algorithms, struggling to grow your platform, or wondering how to create loyal readers who eagerly support your work, this episode offers a refreshing and practical approach.Key TakeawaysWhy a Small Community Can Outsell a Large AudienceDiscover why a handful of engaged supporters often generates more book sales, referrals, and opportunities than thousands of passive followers.The Book Launch Strategy Most Authors MissLearn how inviting readers into your writing journey long before publication can create anticipation, trust, and a ready-made launch team.The Surprising Power of Showing Up ImperfectlyFind out why polished marketing isn't always the answer and how sharing real stories and struggles can strengthen your connection with readers.Stop Chasing Every PlatformLearn how to identify the platform that best fits your personality and strengths so you can build momentum without spreading yourself too thin.The One Question That Sparks Better ConversationsDiscover how asking thoughtful questions can turn followers into participants and create a community that actively engages with your message.The Elevator Pitch Test Every Author Should PassLearn how to talk about your book in a way that sparks curiosity, starts conversations, and makes people want to know more.Tune in now!Here's how to connect with Elizabeth:Download Elizabeth's your free gift from ElizabethWebsite: https://elizabethhenson.co/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethhensonco/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ElizabethHenson.coInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/elizabeth.henson/*************************************************************************What Should I Do When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming?You poured your heart into writing your book because you wanted to make a difference. It deserves to be discovered.If marketing feels confusing, frustrating, or like you're spinning your wheels, the Author Influencer Circle will help you build authority, attract opportunities, and market your book with clarity and confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and discover how your book can open doors to speaking, clients, partnerships, and meaningful income.*************************************************************************

Season 6, Episode 761: Embracing the Forbidden, Dark Desires, & Creative Freedom with Author A.A. Powers with a dark spicy romance book excerpt at the end of the author interview!  Discussion Topics:  Dark Romance, Paranormal Romance, Spicy Romance, Author Interview, Book Series, The Devious Bonds Series, Character Development, Writing Process, Fantasy Fiction, Self-Acceptance, Emotional Healing, Storytelling, Indie Authors, Reader Engagement, Sex Positivity, Creative Writing, Women authors who write romance, spice, and smutty fiction, Minnesota Authors, Book Marketing, Writing Community, Self-Publishing Be sure to listen to Season 6, Episode 760 to get right into the excerpt: A Devious Awakening, A Dark Paranormal Demon Romance Excerpt from a spicy fiction novel written by A.A. Powers, book excerpt narrated by podcast host Ruan Willow. Listen to the author interview with A.A. Powers coming Friday, June 26, 26. A Devious Awakening, get the book (affiliate link) https://amzn.to/4akQnpM Author bio:  A.A. Powers is the author of The Devious Bonds series, a dark paranormal romance series that explores love, obsession, power, redemption, and the complexities of human desire through fantasy. By day, she works as a procurement analyst and lives in rural Minnesota with her family. By night, she writes stories filled with demons, fated mates, found family, and morally complicated characters. As both a reader and author of dark romance, Ashley is fascinated by the intersection of fantasy, shame, self-acceptance, and the ways fiction allows readers to safely explore parts of themselves that are often misunderstood or judged. Learn more about Author A.A. Powers: https://aapowersauthor.com/ Ruan's New Release, a Dark Romance Suspense Thriller with erotic storytelling: Ruan's New Novel One of Ruan's fave brands of adult pleasure toys: Affiliate link Pearl Toys from Kiiroo: Get 10% OFF ENTIRE ORDER (min. purchase $69, no usage limits) with affiliate code RUANWILLOW10 on pleasure sex toys at https://www.kiiroo.com/ https://offers.feeliate.com/to92wTJh Support the show Newsletters https://subscribepage.io/ruanwillow https://linktr.ee/RuanWillow Minnesota Book Fair for Grownups hosted by Inbound Brewing, Minnesota State Fair Grand Stand July 11, 2026. Use discount code RUAN202 for 50% off. Get tickets: buy tickets to the book fair PodNation Podcast Affiliate link, Get 15% OFF with code podna15 on Ryze Coffee at ⁠https://www.ryzesuperfoods.com/ Neighborhood Sex Secrets novel: https://books.ruanwillowauthor.com/neighborhoodsexsecrets Copyright 2026 Pink Infinity Publishing. All Rights Reserved.

Send us Fan MailThink publishing your book is the finish line? Think again.Many authors unknowingly make small publishing decisions that lead to poor discoverability, lost sales, rejected bookstore submissions, or even leave their work vulnerable to theft. The good news? Most of these costly mistakes are completely avoidable—if you know what to look for.On this episode of Talking Book Publishing, Kathleen and Adanna welcome Juliet Clark of Superbrand Publishing to discuss the publishing and marketing mistakes she sees every day, from copyright protection and metadata to author branding, Amazon optimization, and the scams targeting today's authors.In this episode, you'll learn:Why registering your copyright mattersThe difference between ISBNs, Library of Congress registrations, and Amazon product codesHow cover design affects discoverability and salesWhat makes effective back cover copyWhy every author needs a consistent brandHow Amazon A+ Content helps readers understand your bookWhy metadata and categories are critical for discoverabilityThe importance of building your author platform before launchHow lead magnets grow your email listHow to recognize and avoid common publishing scamsWhether you're publishing your first book or looking to improve the performance of an existing one, this episode is full of practical advice that can help you publish smarter and market with confidence.Connect With UsKathleen: kathleenkaiser.comAdanna: maddannastudio.comPodcast listeners receive a special 20% off all ProBookLaunch products. Use code TBPLISTENER20 at checkout.Have a topic or guest suggestion?Email us at podcast@talkingbookpublishing.todayJoin the conversation on Instagram: @writerspubsnet

Ever wonder how a debut novel can open doors far beyond book sales?This week's guest is Kailey Holbrook, award-winning filmmaker, author, and film student at USC. Kailey published her first 500+ page novel while still in high school. Since then, she's built an engaged online following, navigated the worlds of publishing and filmmaking, and learned firsthand what it takes to connect with readers in a crowded marketplace.In this conversation, Kailey shares how she found her audience, built a creative community, and leveraged storytelling skills across multiple platforms. Whether you're writing fiction or nonfiction, you'll discover practical lessons on visibility, audience growth, and creating opportunities that extend well beyond your book.Key TakeawaysWhy a Book Can Become Your Biggest DifferentiatorDiscover how publishing a book can create unexpected opportunities, boost credibility, and help you stand out in ways most people never consider.The Audience Mistake Many Authors MakeLearn why trying to reach everyone often leads to reaching no one, and how identifying the right readers can transform your marketing results.What Social Platforms Are Really Telling YouFind out how Kailey uses TikTok, Instagram, and Goodreads to learn what readers care about and build genuine engagement without feeling promotional.The Hidden Power of Creative CommunityExplore how surrounding yourself with fellow creators can spark new ideas, fuel motivation, and help your work reach a wider audience.What It Takes to Turn a Book into a ScreenplayGet an inside look at the biggest differences between writing a novel and writing for the screen, plus the skills every aspiring screenwriter should develop.Why Successful Authors Stay FlexibleLearn how adapting your writing, marketing, and creative process can help you stay relevant as your audience and goals evolve.Tune in now!Here's how to connect with Kailey:Tik Tok: @kaileyholbrookauthorYoutube: @KaileyHolbrookAuthorInstagram: @kaileyholbrookLinkedIn: Kailey Holbrook*************************************************************************When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming, Clarity Changes EverythingIf you know your book deserves more visibility, but marketing feels confusing or inconsistent, the Author Influencer Circle helps nonfiction authors build authority, attract opportunities, and market with confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and turn your book into money making opportunities!*************************************************************************

Book marketing is changing, and authors can no longer rely on the same tactics that may have worked in the past. With more content, more competition, and the rise of AI, it is becoming even more important for authors to know their audience, build trust, and create meaningful connection.In this episode of Your Path to Book Publishing, we wrap up the recent book launch series by looking at key takeaways from conversations with Josh Porter, author of The Last Human Marketer, and Marissa Eigenbrood, president and partner at Smith Publicity.This episode explores why knowing your audience is still one of the most important parts of book publishing and book marketing. It is not enough to know basic demographics. Authors need to understand what their readers care about, where they spend time, what content they pay attention to, and what transformation they are seeking.You'll also hear why your book should be viewed as more than just a book. It is your content, your intellectual property, and a tool that can support speaking, consulting, coaching, thought leadership, and long-term brand building.The episode also looks at why authors need to have a clear opinion in their content. In a world where information is easy to find and summarize, your perspective, meaning, and expertise are what help you stand out.In this episode, you'll learn:Why knowing your audience is essential for book marketing todayHow AI is changing the way readers discover and engage with informationWhy authors need to build trust, share their perspective, and create real connection beyond the book launchLearn more about Your Path to Book Publishing by visiting Juxtabook.com  and discover if traditional publishing, self-publishing, or hybrid publishing is right for you. Liked this episode? Share it and tag us on Instagram @juxtabookpressConnect with the Host on LinkedIn: @ZachKristensenLove the show? Leave a review and let us know!CONNECT WITH US: Website | Instagram | Facebook 

Most authors overlook one of the most powerful marketing opportunities they already have: their local market. While everyone else fights for attention online, smart authors are building visibility, reader loyalty, and consistent book sales right in their own backyard — often with far less competition and far better results.In this episode, Penny Sansevieri and Amy Cornell unpack the local marketing strategies that actually move books. From wine bars hosting “books and bubbly” nights to thriller-and-whiskey pairings, cookbook tastings, boutique retail partnerships, fitness collaborations, farmers markets, seasonal festivals, and school appearances, we break down how authors can create events and partnerships that feel engaging, profitable, and easy for businesses to say yes to.We also talk about why local visibility matters far more than most authors realize. Community exposure can fuel Amazon traffic, strengthen word-of-mouth marketing, create stronger reader trust, and open doors to media, speaking opportunities, and long-term platform growth. The authors seeing the best results are often the ones creating visibility in places their competitors never think to look.You'll hear practical strategies for pitching businesses that have never stocked books before, setting up simple consignment arrangements, building collaborative events that benefit everyone involved, and turning small local wins into momentum that compounds over time.Plus, we share overlooked “micro marketing” tactics with surprisingly big payoff, including QR-code bookmarks, local networking opportunities, seasonal tie-ins, collaborative giveaways, and smart ways to move readers from in-person discovery into your long-term digital funnel.If online marketing feels crowded and exhausting, this episode will show you why local visibility may be the smartest — and most underused — book marketing strategy available to authors right now.Send us your feedback!Help shape our 2026 content by taking our 30-second listener poll!

Want more book sales, visibility, and credibility? Speaking may be one of the fastest ways to get there.But how do you land speaking opportunities if nobody knows who you are? Do you need a polished keynote? A speaker reel? A big platform?In this episode, I sit down with Steve Markman, founder of Markman Speaker Management and a respected insider with more than 35 years in the speaking and conference world. Steve pulls back the curtain on what really gets authors booked and what quietly ruins opportunities before they begin.If you've ever thought, I'd love to speak, but where do I start? this conversation is for you.Steve shares practical advice on how nonfiction authors can use speaking to grow authority, open doors, sell more books, and create new opportunities without feeling pushy or self-promotional.In this episode, you'll discover:Why speaking can change the trajectory of your bookWhat happens when people hear you speak before they buy your book? Why do some authors gain momentum while others stay invisible?The surprising truth about getting your first speaking gigDo you need to get paid right away? Where should you start? Steve explains why some of the smartest opportunities may not pay a fee at first.What meeting planners secretly look forWhat makes someone an easy “yes”? The small details that can move you from overlooked to booked.The mistake that can kill speaking opportunities fastOne habit turns audiences and planners off almost instantly. Are authors making this mistake without knowing it?The simple assets that make you look more credibleDo you really need a speaker one sheet? A video reel? A polished bio? Steve shares what matters and what may not.If speaking has been sitting on your someday list, this episode may change how you think about what's possible.Here's how to connect with Steve:EmailWebsite*************************************************************************When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming, Clarity Changes EverythingIf you know your book deserves more visibility, but marketing feels confusing or inconsistent, the Author Influencer Circle helps nonfiction authors build authority, attract opportunities, and market with confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and turn your book into money making opportunities!*************************************************************************

Be sure to check out Becky's website at https://www.beckythebookcoach.com/. Get on her newsletter and check out her free resources.Today we are talking about the things that you can do this summer to practice or start your marketing. Please tag Becky (@beckythebookcoach) and me (@author_katcaldwell) if you are trying social media this summer! We would love to support you!Here are some things that I use in my social media that you can check out. These are affiliate links through Amazon.Tripod: https://amzn.to/3Q3O2IZMicrophone: https://amzn.to/43EclQNLight for phone: https://amzn.to/4xrMGIESign up for my writers' newsletter to learn more about the craft of writing, know when my workshops are and be the first to get exclusive information on my writing retreats. https://katcaldwell.com/writers-newsletterWant more information on my books, author swaps, short stories and what I'm reading? Sign up for my readers' newsletter. https://storylectory.katcaldwell.com/signup You can always ask me writing questions on instagram @author_katcaldwell

Could using AI in your book create a legal problem you never saw coming?What if parts of your manuscript are not actually protected by copyright? And what should authors know before using AI for research, outlines, editing, or content creation?In this eye-opening conversation, legal expert Elissa Hecker breaks down what nonfiction authors need to understand about AI, copyright, contracts, and protecting their intellectual property in a fast-changing publishing world.This episode answers the questions many authors are afraid to ask.Key TakeawaysCan You Copyright AI Content? The surprising truth about what parts of AI-assisted work may not be legally protected.Are You Using AI Safely? Smart ways to use AI without risking ownership, credibility, or control of your content.The Contract Clause Authors Cannot Ignore Why publishers are paying attention to AI use and what disclosures may soon become standard.Your Biggest Competitive Advantage in an AI World Why your voice, experience, and originality matter more than ever and how to protect them.One Copyright Mistake That Could Cost You The difference between “having copyright” and protecting it when problems arise.If AI feels exciting, confusing, or a little intimidating, this conversation will help you separate hype from reality and make smarter decisions about your book, your ideas, and your intellectual property.Here's how to connect with Elissa:Email Elissa for your complimentary 30-minute consultationWebsiteResources: US Copyright OfficePatent and Trademark Office*************************************************************************When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming, Clarity Changes EverythingIf you know your book deserves more visibility, but marketing feels confusing or inconsistent, the Author Influencer Circle helps nonfiction authors build authority, attract opportunities, and market with confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and turn your book into money making opportunities!*************************************************************************

If you have more than one book out and you've been treating each one as a separate marketing project, this episode is going to change how you think about your entire author platform. Jenn breaks down why multi-book marketing requires a completely different strategy than single-book marketing, what fiction and nonfiction authors each need to do differently, and the one shift that gets your backlist working for you instead of quietly fading in the background. If your books aren't selling together the way they should, this is why.LINKSFREE Book Marketing BlueprintThe 90-Day Book Sales SystemDone-WITH-You Services:Social Growth SessionsNext Level Marketing Sessions

What if the worst season of your life became the catalyst for your greatest creative work? Are you stuck in grief, burnout, or retirement drift, wondering if your story is “too ordinary” to ever matter to anyone else? Have you poured your savings and your soul into a book, only to discover that writing it was just the beginning, and now you're drowning in marketing advice you can't afford to follow? In this episode, retired West Virginia teacher turned romantic thriller author Robin Beamer Dalton shares how the loss of her husband, the shock of suddenly living alone after 27 years together, and the looming dread of dark winter evenings pushed her to finally write the book she'd always dreamed of. In just five intense months, she turned ten-hour writing days into Threads of Obsession, an action-packed, twist-filled romantic thriller that keeps the predator in the heroine's life from the first chapter almost to the very end. https://youtu.be/A42sEnjJ6VY?si=DeC0bSugA417DJ71 Robin is uniquely qualified to talk about transforming pain into purpose. She spent 33 years teaching everything from physical education to reading, served as a reading specialist and adjunct instructor at Marshall University, and has been a voracious reader since childhood. She's channeled that lifelong love of story, plus her own experiences with grief, caregiving, and small-town life, into a compelling novel and a tireless grassroots marketing campaign. If you're an aspiring or struggling author, or someone wondering whether it's “too late” to reinvent yourself, Robin's journey will show you exactly how to turn your life experience into a powerful, marketable story without a massive budget. Quotes: “I got my computer out, I prayed over it, and just started writing, and I worked about 10 hours a day on it for about five months.”  “I didn't know what I was going to write till I was writing. I didn't have an outline on paper or in my head, and when I'd get to a point I'd think, this is the perfect place to throw a kink in the story.”  “I decided I would turn the tables and write where she actually would have been the first one never to leave the coal camp in the story. She was single, she didn't have a husband and children, so I could send her out into the world in a way real life never allowed.” Contact Details: Connect with Robin Beamer Dalton on Facebook Visit Robin Beamer Dalton's Official Website Follow Robin Beamer Dalton on Instagram Threads of Obsession on Amazon

Do you know why some authors struggle to market their books even when they have a powerful message?This week's guest expert is April Adams Pertuis, award-winning journalist, producer, and founder of Light Beamers. After conducting more than 10,000 interviews over a 30-year career, April has learned one truth most authors miss: storytelling is not separate from marketing. It is the marketing.In this eye-opening conversation, you'll discover how to use your personal stories to build trust, spark curiosity, and create stronger connections with readers. April also shares how AI can help uncover and organize your stories without replacing your authentic voice.If marketing your book feels forced, awkward, or exhausting, this episode may completely change the way you think about promoting your work.Key Takeaways: Storytelling makes marketing feel human. When you stop “selling” and start sharing meaningful stories, people pay attention.  Your “why” matters more than your pitch. Readers connect with the reason behind your book before they connect with the book itself.  AI can help uncover your stories. Used the right way, AI becomes a creative partner that helps you organize ideas and discover stories you may have forgotten.  Create a story bank. The best authors collect stories from their life, work, and experiences so they always have meaningful content to share.  Authenticity builds trust. Real stories, challenges, and lessons create deeper audience connection than polished marketing language ever will. Don't miss this episode if you want your marketing to feel more natural, more engaging, and far more effective. Tune in now!Here's how to connect with April:WebsiteFree gifts for listeners:Your Story Formula: www.lightbeamers.com/formulaYour Story Formula Quiz: www.lightbeamers.com/quizLinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/lightbeamersInstagram: www.instagram.com/lightbeamersFaceBook: www.facebook.com/apriladamstv*************************************************************************When Book Marketing Feels Overwhelming, Clarity Changes EverythingIf you know your book deserves more visibility, but marketing feels confusing or inconsistent, the Author Influencer Circle helps nonfiction authors build authority, attract opportunities, and market with confidence.Learn more about the Author Influencer Circle and turn your book into money making opportunities!*************************************************************************

What if in the age of AI generated content, the most important part of being visible online is just being a human? In this episode of The Publishing Playbook, host Sarah Russo sits down with Louise Brogan to talk about how the most powerful book marketing tool accessible to authors isn't Instagram or TikTok — it's LinkedIn. Louise is a LinkedIn expert, digital marketing strategist, author of "Raise Your Visibility Online," and host of a YouTube channel with the same name. Sarah and Louise discuss how authors can stop overlooking LinkedIn and start using it strategically. And they cover it all, from optimizing your profile and beating the algorithm to repurposing book content and building a newsletter audience. Louise also explains that as AI content grows on social media, authentic human voices matter more than ever. If you work in publishing marketing or PR — or you're an author trying to build your platform — this episode is essential listening. For more information on Louise's work, visit her website: Louise's Website Books mentioned in this episode: “Raise Your Visibility Online” by Louise Brogan “The Barbecue at No. 9” by Jennie Godfrey Key Moments 01:11 — How Louise Brogan Built a LinkedIn Empire

If you've paid for book marketing help before, did the work, and still didn't see results. Your skepticism is valid, and this episode is going to honor that. Jenn breaks down the three real reasons book marketing programs don't work for most authors, what's actually missing when tactics don't land, and what needs to be in place before any strategy can do its job. No overselling, no shortcuts, just an honest conversation about what's different when marketing is built on the right foundation.LinksThe 90-Day Book Sales SystemDone-WITH-You Services:Social Growth SessionsNext Level Marketing SessionsWatch the video on YouTube

318 / How do you craft a pitch that gets Hollywood's attention and translates your book to the screen—or just want to network and pitch yourself more effectively as an author? Story coach Lindsay Hughes shares insider strategies from the entertainment industry and lessons from Hollywood.Lindsey's "cocktail pitch" formula that grabs attentionHow to talk about your story in a way that intrigues (good for pitching or writing blurbs)Why authors should balance craft development with marketingUnderstanding how Hollywood evaluates books and storiesThe real-world impact (and limits) of social media on book salesTrends in AI, indie publishing, and what's next for authors and adaptations

Do readers judge a book by its cover? Absolutely. And if your book looks self-published, readers notice before they read a single word.This week on the podcast, book designer extraordinaire Victoria Wolf pulls back the curtain on what makes a book look polished, credible, and impossible to ignore.With more than 30 years in the industry and 500+ books designed, Victoria shares the design choices that separate books people buy from books people scroll past.We talk covers that instantly signal quality, interiors that keep readers engaged, and the subtle design mistakes that quietly kill credibility. You'll also hear why many nonfiction authors sabotage their authority with amateur visuals without even realizing it.If your book is supposed to open doors, your design can't afford to whisper.Key takeways from this week's episode; Why interior design matters far more than most authors think  The typography and layout choices that make books easier to read and harder to put down  The real job of a book cover and why most self-published covers miss the mark  When your author photo helps your brand and when it hurts it  The tiny design tweaks that instantly make a book feel professionally published  How strong design builds trust, authority, and sales before readers even open the book If you want your book to compete with traditionally published titles instead of looking like an afterthought, don't miss this conversation. Tune in now!Here's how to connect with Victoria:Website:  Wolf Design and Marketing,LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriawolf/LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/wolf-design-marketingFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/wolfdesignandmarketingYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WolfsOnBooks*************************************************************************When Visibility Feels Hard, Podcast Guesting Changes the GameIf you know your book deserves more reach but visibility feels like a struggle, podcast guesting can open the right doors.Podcast Connections gets you in front of the audiences who need your message and your expertise.Contact them at PodcastConnections.co*************************************************************************

This episode is for the author who is already showing up, already trying, and still not seeing her marketing move the needle. Because the problem isn't the effort. It's where the effort is going. Jenn breaks down why most authors aren't losing time to marketing. They're losing it to the chaos around marketing. And what actually changes when you have a clear system underneath everything you create. If you've been telling yourself you'll get serious about this when things slow down, this one is worth your time right now.LinksBook Marketing Blueprint FREE downloadThe 90-Day Book Sales System

This week on Craft&Connect we continue our chat about Ideal Readers, this time focusing on where to find themIf you missed the worksheet from last marketing episode, you can find that here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kBQ9FpRY0EztvNELzTCqFb0q7N3AuMIf/copyThe worksheet for this week is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pDpNfIl08-IZUyKXakWhBq6zCM6jWq9f/copyCheck out Bookfunnel.com, Storyoriginapp.com and bookclicker.com as places to look for collaboration with authors. If you haven't started your author newsletter, I have a mini-course on how to do that and how to use it to discover other authors and readers. You can find that here for just $17. https://www.curios.com/c/V148YLSign up for the next Craft&Connect LIVE on June 12, 3pm EST here: https://tidycal.com/writeyourlife/craft-and-connect-live-q2Find out more about Becky at https://www.beckythebookcoach.com/Sign up for my writers' newsletter to learn more about the craft of writing, know when my workshops are and be the first to get exclusive information on my writing retreats. https://katcaldwell.com/writers-newsletterWant more information on my books, author swaps, short stories and what I'm reading? Sign up for my readers' newsletter. https://storylectory.katcaldwell.com/signup You can always ask me writing questions on instagram @author_katcaldwell

317 /  Debut author Michelle Park Lazette shares how she's building a brand along with the lessons she's learned about writing, marketing, and connecting with readers as a debut author.Building buzz for your bookStarting a newsletter list and finding ARC readersHead hopping and point of view issuesChallenges with interiority and emotionUsing analytics for book promotion✨ May Pod-Pal Shout-Out: Two Authors' Podcast - Psychology of a Psychological Thriller with Robyn Harding*Don't miss our recent supporter episodes:What Asian Dramas Teach Writers About Conflict And Emotion More Truth about Book Marketing: 5 More Publishing MythsBecome a supporter to get all 20+ supporter episodes: https://wishidknownforwriters.com/support or https://wishidknownthenpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode, Matt & Lauren examine the ways book marketing has changed in an AI and algorithm-driven world. We identify a few of the biggest shifts we've seen, like prioritizing trust signals over keywords, and share our insights into:

If you write in a niche genre and you've been told (or have started to believe) that your book is just too specific to market effectively, this episode is for you. Jenn breaks down why niche isn't the obstacle it feels like, why generic book marketing advice fails specific authors, and what a marketing strategy actually looks like when you write for a very particular reader. Whether you write in a niche genre, across multiple genres, or for a deeply specific audience, this one will change how you think about finding your readers.LinksThe 90-Day Book Sales System includes the New Author Marketing Playbook, built specifically for pre-published authors who want a real plan before their book comes out.Social Growth Sessions

Why do some nonfiction books get read… and others get put down halfway through?If your book isn't connecting the way you expected, it's probably not a marketing issue. It's how the message is landing on the page.This week's guest expert, Corey Radman—editor and ghostwriter for memoir, self-help, and business authors—breaks down what actually makes a book resonate.Because readers don't stay for information. They stay for how it makes them think, feel, and see themselves.If you want your book to do more than inform—if you want it to stick—this conversation will show you what's missing.There's a Real Person on the Other Side of the Screen: The one mindset shift that makes readers feel like you're writing just for them.The Boring Topic Is a Myth: Why the driest subject in the room is secretly the most powerful story waiting to be told.A Vignette Is a Knife, Not a Blanket: The overlooked rule about story length that separates forgettable writing from writing that sticks.Some Stories Aren't Only Yours to Tell: The question every writer should ask before hitting publish — but almost nobody does.AI Is a Brilliant Brainstorming Buddy With a Lying Problem: How to use AI in your writing without letting it quietly sabotage your credibility.If your book isn't landing the way you hoped, it might not be a marketing issue.It might be how the message is being experienced on the page. Tune in now to find out more.Here's how to connect with Corey:WebsiteLinkedIn*************************************************************************When Visibility Feels Hard, Podcast Guesting Changes the GameIf you know your book deserves more reach but visibility feels like a struggle, podcast guesting can open the right doors.Podcast Connections gets you in front of the audiences who need your message and your expertise.Contact them at PodcastConnections.co*************************************************************************

Most authors can tell you their royalties but not their net profit per book. They spend money on ads, see sales come in, and assume things are fine. But are they? Sales and profit are not the same thing.How can you find out if you're making money or just making sales?In this week's episode, you'll hear from Eiri Theodorou, founder of Publisher Champ, an analytics platform used by over 25,000 authors.You'll learnHow one of Amazon's metrics is somewhat misleading (and how to find the truth)How you can track real-world marketing (like speaking and interviews) in a dashboardHow to find out if your best-selling book is masking problems with your other books.If you want to stop guessing about your profitability, listen in or read the blog version. You'll be able to invest in marketing with more certainty and become truly profitable.Support the show

Are you tired of the hustle-harder approach to book marketing? What if a quieter, more creative strategy could work just as well — and feel a whole lot better? How can special editions, physical letters, and library outreach bring readers to your books without the daily grind of ads and social media? Sara Rosett shares her low-key approach to marketing, direct sales, and the creative business of being an indie author. In the intro, dealing with uncertainty, and Becca Syme's Quit books; The Successful Author Mindset; Building resilience and the creative lies that writers tell themselves [Wish I'd Known Then]; On Writing – Stephen King; Big Magic – Elizabeth Gilbert; This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors. This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn Sara Rosett is the USA Today bestselling author of over 30 books across 1920s mysteries, cosy mysteries, and travel mysteries, as well as nonfiction for authors. She's also the co-host of the fantastic Wish I'd Known Then podcast. In this episode: Why low-key, personality-driven marketing can be more sustainable than aggressive advertising How to pitch your books to libraries using a simple email strategy The pros and cons of special editions, physical letters, and Kickstarter campaigns Shifting from retailer-first releases to direct sales through a Shopify store Co-writing nonfiction and the power of series bundles for reader discovery Drawing creative inspiration from other industries and international storytelling trends You can find Sara at SaraRosett.com and at WishIdKnownForWriters.com Transcript of the interview Jo: Sara Rosett is the USA Today bestselling author of over 30 books across 1920s mysteries, cosy mysteries, and travel mysteries, as well as nonfiction for authors. She's also the co-host of the fantastic Wish I'd Known Then podcast. Welcome back to the show, Sara. Sara: Hi, Jo. Thanks for having me. It's great to be back. Jo: It is great to have you back. You were last on the show five years ago, around February 2021, and we talked about writing a series — and you have a great book on that. But first up, give us an update. What does your author business look like right now, and what are you up to with your writing? How Sara's author business has evolved Sara: Well, it's changed a lot. I sat down to think about this and I thought, yes, I have got into direct sales. I've done Kickstarters. I have a Shopify store now. I've really shifted from releasing first on the retailers. I don't really do that anymore. I've done some special editions, some physical things — I'm sure we'll talk about those later. Still doing the podcast with Jamie, the Wish I'd Known Then podcast, we're still doing that. I also have a Mystery Books podcast, which is an episodic podcast that comes out in seasons. I do a short season, about one a year, so I keep doing that. Writing some nonfiction. I did the trope book with Jennifer Hilt for mystery and thriller. And writing-wise, I've created a spinoff, a short spinoff in the 1920s series. I'm still loving the 1920s timeline. But I've slowed down a little bit on the releases. Busy, but good. Jo: Busy, but good. All right, we're going to get into all of those things. Although I must say I had forgotten about your Mystery Books podcast and going to seasonal. I also had my second podcast, Books and Travel, which is now on a kind of hiatus, but going to a seasonal approach is actually really interesting. Do you find that listeners come back to that podcast? The power of a seasonal podcast Sara: Yes, and it surprises me because I've always thought you have to be weekly with a podcast to gain any traction at all, which I think is the best way to do it. You can build an audience quickly then, but I just knew I couldn't sustain that. So when I set out, I started with maybe seven to ten episodes and I did them each year — each year has had a season — and I do five to ten episodes. Readers find it, and I have highlighted specific books. I think maybe they're searching for a podcast about the Thursday Murder Club or something like that. They find it that way, and I get downloads, just steady downloads throughout the year, and I don't do much. I do some Pinterest pins for that, and that's about all I do. This is one of those things — it's the kind of low-key marketing that's low threshold, but it does work. I think if your readers are looking for stuff to listen to about the topic you write about, it could be a good way to do some low-cost, long-tail marketing. I love it. I keep doing it because I love it. Jo: That's great. Low-key marketing that fits your personality Jo: As you mentioned, I really wanted to talk to you about this low-key, non-hype marketing. We've met in person a number of times, and I think we're quite similar — we're quiet, reserved. We are quite low key. I just put content out, and yes, I do some paid ads or whatever, but I just don't find the hype marketing something I want to do. I like the attraction marketing, and I feel like I do intuitive marketing. So how does your low-key marketing fit with your personality? Sara: Well, I did try some of the more promotional marketing. I tried to have a street team back when I heard authors talking about that. I thought, oh, I'll do a Street Team, and that doesn't really match with my readers. My genre — that's just not a thing that happens a lot there. So I backed off of that, and I've tried ads. Not really interested in those. I'm not really good at them, and I don't really want to get good at them. So I've searched for ways that I can find readers that don't rely on ads. I've really focused on my newsletter, and I have two of those. I have a main one that goes out to my readers who sign up in the back of the book. And then I have a New Release in Historical Mysteries newsletter that goes out about twice a month most of the time. That's just curation. I'm saying, hey, these are the new books that are out. I feel like those are easy to do. They fit with my personality, which is like, here, let me give you some information about what's going on in this genre. I do newsletters, the promo sites, the smaller promotional paid ads — I do those occasionally. I have a rotation that I go through, and I try to get a BookBub. If I can, that's great. I've just done things that are leaning into what I feel comfortable doing. Pitching books to libraries Sara: A lot of it is finding small sites where I haven't run an ad. Let me see if there's anybody who wants to sign up or get a free book through me here. I've done some BookFunnel marketing, where you can join the group promos. I like those. And I've reached out to libraries because I feel like my books appeal to libraries. They like the 1920s historicals. It's an easy way to reach people — it's attractive to libraries. So I had a list of libraries in my state, and I have an assistant who helps me out. She emailed down the list. She picked a few every week and messaged them and said, hey, this is a local author. She lives in this state. Here are some books you might enjoy from her. And I have, because of you, large print — I got into that when you started talking about large print a couple of years ago. So I have large print case laminate books that libraries like. I just do things like that, things that are not the norm. Hardly anybody is talking about marketing to libraries. But I try to do that. Sometimes I'll just think of something. I was at the library and I thought, wow, look at all these hardcover case laminate books they have in this large print section. Maybe I should try that. And then I search out and try to figure out if I can do it. Jo: And just for people who don't know, case laminate is a hardback. Sara: Yes. Jo: That's really interesting. You mentioned the libraries and the list. Was that a list you were able to buy? I remember years ago I had someone on the show who was doing that kind of thing. Or was it that your assistant had to go through and find all the libraries, find an email address, that kind of thing? Sara: I think I found it through Sisters in Crime, which is a mystery writers' organisation, and I think they had a contact list — you could get libraries and bookstores in your area. I think I started with that and then just research. And I'm sure now with AI, you could put in where you are and say, in a radius of 250 miles, what is near me? And you could probably get a great list. Jo: Absolutely. And when the assistant is emailing, is it just information about you and then saying, would you like to buy? Because you have a big backlist, and we don't want to be sending loads of expensive hardbacks to libraries unless they're actually going to buy. What's the process to actually sell to them? The library email approach Sara: I wrote up an email and introduced myself. I leaned into the “I'm local — I live in the same city or state that you're in.” Then I described my most popular series and said the first book is this. I put a link to a PDF that they can go look at. I think it's on my website, and they can go see the books. They can print that out, of course, and it has the ISBNs. I make sure they know they can order them from Ingram, and that's all I do. Then when I had a new release, we switched it up and put that at the top. But I have all the books in the series so they know it's a series. Jo: That's fantastic. I love that. Set-and-forget promotional marketing Jo: A lot of what you were talking about was newsletter, email marketing, some ads, but nothing aggressive — as in you're not monitoring it every single day. The email pushes, like a BookBub or free books, bargain books — you can book it and then it's almost set and forget, isn't it? You don't have to log in every day to check the results. Is that what you mean? Sara: Yes. And I like those because they are set and forget. You just have to remember to drop the price and then reset it on Amazon, and then they send it out to their list and hopefully you get some traffic from that. I like that much better than Facebook ads, because with ads I feel like you have to go in and monitor the comments and check on how they're doing. It's a more full-time type job. If you're doing a lot of ads, it's a couple of hours — for me anyway, because I'm not very savvy with it and I'm not as experienced. So it would take a long time to increase my knowledge there. Jo: To be fair, both of us have had many years when we could have become experts, but the fact is it doesn't suit our personalities. I am now working with Claude Code a bit more to do Amazon ads, but even then we go in once a week and Claude does a few things and then we log out again. I'm not doing this daily stuff, and I may eventually get back into doing it for Meta. But in terms of what I mean by low-key marketing — it's lower stress when you don't have to do stuff every day. And I guess what you're doing with the Mystery Books podcast, with the library pitches, with the batching — is that what you're doing? Putting aside time for marketing occasionally? Sara: Yes. And that's what I do. I'll think, oh, I haven't checked Kobo promos, so let me go check that, because I do use those too. I'm wide, so I'm trying to find things that bring my books to readers everywhere. I use the Kobo promos, I use Kobo Plus, I use Draft2Digital to get digital books into libraries. I'm always running — if they have a library sale anywhere, I sign up for it and I just do these occasional things. It's not every day, and I like doing things in phases. I like doing a special edition and working on that and then being done with that and putting that away and going back to writing or whatever. I don't mind doing promo for a little bit, but then I don't want to do it every day. A project-based approach to the author business Jo: We are similar in so many ways. I also have this project approach to life and business. If I'm writing a first draft of a new book, pretty much everything else goes out the window. Sara: Yes. Jo: Exactly. I just don't have the bandwidth. I'm not in that head space. And then, as we record this, I've got a Kickstarter coming up for Bones of the Deep and yesterday I did the book trailer, and I'll do the push for the Kickstarter and then I'm just going to stop. Sara: Well, the positive way to look at that is it's focus, right? We can focus for two weeks or a month or whatever — two months doing a Kickstarter or whatever — and then we're done with it, and then we move on. Jo: That just seems more sustainable to me. I didn't like doing everything every day or every single week. Sara: Me either. I like switching it up, and I do enjoy the different phases of writing. I like the research and then I like doing the — well, I don't like the drafting that much, but once I get a draft done, I like the editing. And then when it comes time to promote it or do a special edition or whatever, I enjoy that part. Finding whatever I'm going to use for the interior photos and stuff — just things like that. I enjoy each phase and I like switching it out. Jo: I think that's really good. Some people think this writer's life is you write new words every single day and you manage your ads every single day. That seems to be what some people do, but that's certainly not us, is it? Sara: No. And that's great if you want to do that. I just don't want to. And I think we've come to the point now where each person can do this as they want. Hopefully people don't feel the pressure to meet these self-imposed deadlines or parameters that don't exist. There's no rules for writing or publishing. You can do whatever you want. Social media — or not Jo: Let's just mention social media then. What are you doing for that? Sara: Not much! Jo: Nor me! Sara: I'm dabbling in Pinterest because I think that could have the longer tail. I do a little Instagram, but that is about it. And I really considered just leaving it altogether. I'm never on Facebook. We were talking earlier about saying no, and I don't want to join any more Facebook groups. I don't care what information they have. I figure I'll hear about it on a podcast if it's great. I think social media has changed so much. In the beginning, it was great — you could find readers. Now it's just much harder to connect with readers there. I want to have a presence so that if people go look for me, they'll find my books and hopefully find a link to download a free book and read it or an audiobook and listen to it. Then they can get on my newsletter and connect with me there. That's my philosophy. Jo: I think so too. I am on Instagram @jfpennauthor in that I do post pictures there, and even very recently I've discovered how to do a reel, which is just hilarious — I'm only about seven years late. But I don't check my DMs, so if anyone messaged me on Instagram or Facebook, I'm just not getting them. Sara: I know. And I feel like there's so many places people can connect with you. I put up a post on Facebook and said, I'm not going to be here much anymore. If you're looking for me, you can find me on Instagram maybe, or sign up for my newsletter to really stay in touch. Jo: I think that's what we have to do. But our idea of this project-based approach to the author life and the author business doesn't suit social media, because the people who are really good on social media are on it multiple times a day, creating content multiple times a day. It just suits some people and not others. Sara: I do things and I take pictures and think, oh, I'll put this on Instagram. And then I don't ever do it. One time we went on a road trip and I took a bunch of paperbacks and dropped them off in the free little libraries. I took a picture at each one and I never posted those ever. I ran across them years later and thought, oh yeah, I did it but I didn't post it on social media. That's just not my thing. Special editions and physical design Jo: Although you did just say that you like doing the art and the photos, and you've done some beautiful special editions. You've done letters, you do a lot of physical design for your books. So talk about that — why you're doing that, why it's fun, and the pros and cons, because it can be a time suck and a money suck. Sara: Yeah. I think you have to figure out where your gauge is for that, because you can go all in and do everything for the special editions. I've come to the conclusion I'm going to survey my readers before I do another one and say, what do you really like about them? Because I do mine and release them on my Shopify store first — is it just that you're getting it first, or do you like all the bells and whistles? I enjoy doing the endpages and the ribbon, and I've done character art for them. But since my books are set in the 1920s, there's a lot of photos from that time period that are available. In Deposit Photos, you can go in and search for those. The last two books I did, I used photos that I thought captured what the characters would look like. That was a lot of fun to find and just include photos instead of character art. And it was a lot faster than waiting for character art too. The pros are that it's fun and you get to do things you don't normally get to do — finding beautiful illustrations for the endpages, doing the sprayed edges, just making it really special. Storytelling through letters Sara: I enjoy doing things that you can't do on Amazon. You just can't do letters on Amazon. With both Kickstarters, you could get three physical letters in the mail. They were a story told through letters, and they had art. The first one was black and white, and then the second set was colour. Since then, I've done colour, and it's a challenge to write those because it's a totally different type of writing. It's a 1,000 to 1,500 word little snippet, and where you end is important so that readers will be looking for the next one. Including art — whether it was a map, illustrations of what the view looks like, what the house looks like. Not that I illustrated it — I had somebody else help me do that. It's fun to think about how stories can be told in different ways. I love novels, but 70,000 words is a lot of words. That's a big project. Sometimes it's nicer to have a shorter project. The letters were shorter and a shorter time investment. I enjoyed them for that. For the cons — it's just a longer ramp up to get it going. If you want to do a special edition or letters or book boxes or anything like that, just estimate how much time you think you need and then multiply by three or five, because it's going to take so much longer than you think. Would you agree with that, with your special editions? Jo: Yeah. Although I think now I've got a process for it. Although, I did my book trailer for Bones of the Deep yesterday, and it reminded me — the book trailer is 30 seconds, and it took me nearly ten hours! Sara: I do believe that though. I completely believe it. Jo: Because I'm a bit of a control freak. I love working with Midjourney. I say I think I'm a control freak — of course I am. We all are as indie authors. But I'm a very visual author, and you sound like you are as well. I see the book, and if I'm generating pictures of the characters or the ship or what happens in the storm or whatever, then it needs to look like what's in my head. So I end up generating and generating, and then I did music and then — yeah, it's very creative, but it takes a heck of a long time. From Kickstarter to Shopify store Jo: Coming back to your letters and your Kickstarters — I did go check. It's been a while since you've done those. Have you changed to using your Shopify store, and will you do another Kickstarter? Sara: I may do another Kickstarter. I do feel like I found new readers on Kickstarter. That's a pro definitely — people will see your work that maybe would never see it on Amazon. It's a much smaller pool to stand out in. Whereas on Amazon there are thousands and millions of books, on Kickstarter there might be five historical mysteries or two at that moment. So it's easier to stand out. I'll probably do another Kickstarter, but to me it was difficult with the prep that went into it. Then the launch, and the launch kind of stressed me out. I know we talked to you on our podcast before your first Kickstarter and you were a little stressed, so I'm not as stressed as I would be with the first one. But it is a lot to prepare, and I do feel some pressure that I want this one to do well. And then the fulfilment — I like to do things in phases, so I felt like it was hard for me to move on to anything else while I was waiting for the books to arrive, because I didn't feel done with that until I had sent out the books. It just seemed like it took quite a bit of time. So with my next release, I thought, I'm going to launch this on my Shopify store and see how it does. I still did the special edition and I still did a lot of the things I learned to do with Kickstarter, like emailing my list a little more often and highlighting these special things. And coordinating with a couple of other authors in my genre to say, hey, I have a book out and it's a special edition — you might be interested. And then share their stuff when their book comes out. The first one I did, I had the book sent to me. I signed them, packed them, and sent them out. But the second one, I said, to save time and money, we were just going to do a digital signature. I had them shipped directly from Book Vault to the reader, and that just helped simplify things so much. Launching on my store, I didn't see quite as many sales or bring in quite as much money as I did on Kickstarter, but it took a lot less time. I feel that was a good trade-off. It simplified the time it took to do it, so I was able to get back to writing more quickly. The second one I launched on my store as well. I've done the spinoff series on my store — it's a three-book series — and I'll probably do the third book on my store too. Then maybe when I go back to my original 1920s series, which is the one that does the best and is my most popular, I may go back to Kickstarter with that one. I think it's nice to have the choice to launch on my store or Kickstarter. I can choose — do I have enough time to do it the way I want to on Kickstarter? Scarcity, direct sales, and training readers Jo: I feel like launching on my store, there's less of a time pressure. We don't really have scarcity in our business, and the only way to make it scarce is to have a limited-time offer. Which to me, Kickstarter by its very nature is a limited-time offer. Obviously it's easier for me because I'm near BookVault, so I go up there and physically sign the books, and I like doing that occasionally. But I hear you with the direct store, and I also presume it trains people to buy from your store. So how has your revenue shifted from the big stores like Amazon, Kobo, to Shopify, Kickstarter, direct sales? Sara: It's shifted a lot. I do the Shopify store just like I do everything else — in phases. I'm like, hey, I have a new release. Go buy it at my store. And I have a lot of sales. I also launched a third set of letters last year around October, leading into November. I said, you can get this series of letters — two a month all year in 2026. Go to my store, sign up for it, buy it there. They'll be launching in December. I push it, I talk about it. I do a podcast about the letters or the special edition on Mystery Books podcast. I ran a couple of ads, got the word out, saw some sales, got everything done, and then it just kind of tapers off. What I need to do is continue to market it, especially to my list — hey, did you know I've got these bundles? Did you know you can get bundles of paperbacks or audiobooks over here from me at a discount? I need to work that into my newsletter strategy. It's kind of like I use it in phases. I still have books on all the retailers and still promote those and link to them. But that's not my focus now. If I'm going to send traffic anywhere, I'm going to send it to my store. My mindset is more on direct sales and the special things I can do — the special editions, the unique things they can only get from me. I'll still do a BookBub if I can get one, and push that to the retailers. The smaller newsletter sites — I use those to reach readers there. But my focus is definitely on the special editions and doing things on my store that you can't get anywhere else. Beyond ebook, audiobook, and paperback Jo: A lot of people, new authors particularly, are thinking about ebook, audiobook, paperback. And all of those you can get anywhere — for both our books, you can get them in those formats anywhere. And large print as well. I have large print paperback, and I actually remember, it was probably five years ago when you were here and you mentioned large print hardback. And I was like, oh yeah, I should do that. Of course, I never did. You can't do everything. Sara: You can't do everything. Jo: You can't. But I think you probably can do a large print hardback on Amazon now with KDP Print — you can do hardback — but none of them are as good quality as the printing we get elsewhere. Also, as you say, all those special things — you actually can't sell them on Amazon. People can sell them secondhand or whatever, but you just can't do that. So I think that's the creative fun of having your own store or doing Kickstarters or selling direct — just all the other fun things that satisfy us creatively too. Because it's not all about the readers, is it? Sara: Right, because we want to be enjoying what we're doing. We don't want it to be a slog. Jo: What's the fun in that?! How long Sara has been an indie author Jo: Just remind us how long you've been doing this now. Sara: My first book came out in 2006. It was traditionally published, and I had a series of ten books with a traditional publisher. Then as that one was getting near the end, I was experimenting with indie — was a hybrid for a while. Then I went all indie pretty much. Jo: In what year? Sara: That was probably — I think my first indie book came out in 2012. So for a while I was trying to do indie and a traditionally published book, and that was very — I felt like I was torn in all kinds of different directions. I thought it was going to be so much simpler just to do this all myself. Maybe not, but — Jo: Pros and cons, as we said. Co-writing the Mystery and Thriller Trope Thesaurus Jo: One of the things you've done recently is co-written a Mystery and Thriller Trope Thesaurus with Jennifer Hilt, who's been on this show as well as your show. Tell us about co-writing, because I don't think you've done much co-writing. Sara: No, I hadn't. That was the first co-written book I'd ever done. And it was a great experience. Jennifer Hilt made it so easy. She has several books in this Trope Thesaurus series, so she had a format and we just used her format. We took the tropes and divided them up. She took half and I took half, and we went off and wrote on our own and came back together and then we would trade. It was really easy. I don't know that this is the way co-writing usually goes, but we did have a contract and we started out with all the normal things — a plan and a contract. We had to decide who was going to coordinate everything for the cover and the copy editing and all that. When we got done, we used Draft2Digital and did the payment splitting, which made that part easy. It's been a great experience, and I think it's just because Jennifer has done this before and she's really easy to work with. I highly recommend co-writing if you can find somebody like Jennifer who's already done it and can take you through the system. Jo: I think that's the point — if you have someone like Jennifer who has a layout, it's a bit like the For Dummies series. I had an opportunity to do something with them at one point, and it's so formulaic in terms of doing it, and then you're filling it in. Clearly Jennifer's managing that really well. The co-writing I've done with various people has been pros and cons, but it's not been in an established series. I love that you say that, but just to warn people — that might not be your experience. Sara: Yes. And I think it's so much about personality and how you work together, how you each write, and your deadlines. If you try to set a really close deadline — we pushed our deadline out. We had planned to do a Kickstarter with the launch of the trope book, and then she ended up moving and I had a bunch of stuff going on. We were like, you know what, that's fine. We won't do a Kickstarter. And it was okay. You just have to figure out how it's going to go. And if you have someone that's flexible when you need to be flexible, that's so important. Jo: Adjusting is the reality of life, isn't it? And I feel like the Trope Thesaurus — it's not going to necessarily have a spike sale and then disappear. It is an evergreen book, right? Sara: Yes. People will find it when they find the series. It's not something that has to be pushed during a certain time period and then we're done. It's a long-term, evergreen type book. The role of series and bundles Jo: Talking of series, you've obviously got multiple series. People should definitely go look — you've got great branding and your series are so clear. What part do series and bundles play in marketing in general, and in your direct sales? Sara: I like to bundle them for my direct store because I figure I need something special about my store — a reason for people to go there. They can get the books on Amazon and Audible and Spotify and all these places, so why would they go to my store? I've really leaned into bundles for the store, so they can get a three-book audiobook bundle or the whole series in pretty much all my series. They can do the paperback bundling. I've done a paperback starter series bundle where they can get each book one in my first three series bundled together through Book Vault. I thought I really need to do that with the audiobooks. That's on my list — to create a starter audiobook bundle. Bundles do well on Kobo. They draw readers in over there. And for the rare times I can get a BookBub, I think bundles seem to appeal to BookBub. If I'm going to pitch something, it seems like they like bundles. Readers like them too. Part of it is the convenience. You've got the whole series together and you can just read one after another. You don't have to go find it and figure out what order they're in. Jo: They do. And I love offering bundles in the Kickstarter as add-ons and on my Shopify stores as well. Because I'm always surprised — somebody's just found me and then they order the 13 ARKANE thriller paperback bundle, and I'm like, okay, wow. That just feels like a win. Sara: Yes. I love to see those come in and you think, oh, I wonder how they found me. Why they would dive in with the seven-book series. That's fantastic. Jo: It is interesting. With the paperbacks and the shipping, you drop some money for a complete print series. And then obviously it's usually a bit less on things like audio and ebook bundles, but it's still a real commitment. So yeah, everybody, we love bundles. Sara: We do. What Sara is excited about next Jo: I wanted to come back to the podcast, Wish I'd Known Then, which is brilliant. I often refer to it on this show. Hopefully we share quite a few listeners, and you and Jamie talk about industry changes, personal things. Given all the stuff that's going on, what are you excited about? What are you experimenting with? What changes are you seeing that you're enjoying? Sara: We appreciate the shout-out. Every time you give us a shout-out — and I do think we share a readership. I think you are our most frequently mentioned other podcast. We are always referring to you on Wish I'd Known Then. What I'm looking forward to is — I like seeing what other businesses or industries are doing and seeing if I can apply that to writing and books. That's how I came up with the letter idea. I saw some people doing that. I found out later there were some mystery-related mystery letter subscriptions, but I didn't know about them and they weren't well known. I thought, oh, I could try that. So I'm looking forward to doing more creative things that we haven't had the opportunity to do, but now we are going to have the tech and the fulfilment to do. Merch could be fun. I haven't ever delved into that. Translations — I didn't even mention translations earlier. I've done a couple of languages in my historical series, and I think it's really interesting the options we have now in translation. The books could go into so many more languages, so much easier. So I'm looking into that. Just reaching out and trying some of these new things that are on the horizon. You're much more futurist than I am. I'm much more about looking back at the past and going, oh, that was cool. Maybe we can do something similar, but different now. Finding creative inspiration from other industries Jo: That's interesting. How are you finding out that information about what other industries are doing? Because the curation of the information stream is hard for all of us. Sara: I don't know. I seem to run across things. I'm always reading and browsing online and seeing what people are talking about. I did see a post years ago about a company that was doing special edges — limited-edition special edges. When I saw that, I thought, oh, I wonder if I could do that. And I hand-stamped snowflakes on a Christmas book. Jo: Oh, I remember that. I actually bought a stamp. I got a (skull) stamp made. Sara: Oh, awesome. Jo: I never used it! Sara: Well, it's a lot of work. It takes time. But they're very special. Each one is unique, just like a snowflake. Each book has all these different types of snowflakes and ink colours on it. I'll see something and think, oh, I wonder if I could do that. And then I'm always consuming really quirky media. I'm into Asian dramas — Korean dramas, Japanese dramas — and I'm seeing trends over there for storytelling. The vertical dramas they're putting out, super short. I just wonder what that's going to turn into in the future. I'm not a video person, but in the future I think there could be short little videos that we could make of our books. That would be just crazy. I don't know that I would have the skills to do that, but we might be able to hire somebody to do that for us. Korean dramas and new storytelling trends Jo: There are lots of AI apps that are already helping with that. I do love making book trailers. And I have also thought about my short stories particularly — turning them into short videos. I've written a few screenplays, so I'm also thinking about that kind of visual-sized content. I also watch a lot of Korean shows. Sara: Oh, do you? Jo: I love Korean shows. Sara: Oh, we have to talk later. Jo: They're very good. I also like the Korean sports stuff and the cooking stuff, and they're just so good at hooking you in. Sara: Yes, they are. Jo: They are so good. Sara: They're really good at blending genres. And I've noticed with their storytelling, they're doing a lot of these stories they call isekai stories, where the main character falls into a story. I heard somebody talking about it, saying they think that's popular because we're so familiar with media entertainment — we kind of know where the story's going. So that's a new way. If your character falls into a fictional mystery and knows who the bad guy is and is trying to prevent a death or something, that's a completely different story than just a straight mystery. Jo: That's interesting. In a way, the LitRPG genre where the character goes into a game, or the character is in a game — I suppose it's got some relationship to that. But I think K-Pop Demon Hunters is like the most successful film and music and all of this kind of thing. It's clearly coming to more Western audiences. Sara: Yes. It's becoming much more mainstream than it used to be, I think. Jo: That's really interesting given that you're mainly a historical author. Are we going to get 1920s Korea? Sara: Oh, maybe. That's an interesting time period. Maybe my character needs to travel there. Jo: You have a travel series, don't you? Sara: Yes. I have a modern, cosy kind of travel series, and then in my 1920s series, it takes place mostly in England, but I have a spinoff with a character who's gone to Egypt, and I have three books set in Egypt. Jo: Well, you never know. Sara: I know. Maybe they need to travel. Jo: I love it. Okay, where can people find you and your books and your podcasts online? Sara: Thanks for having me. This has been so much fun. You can find me at SaraRosett.com. My store is SaraRosettBooks.com. You can find the podcast with Jamie and me, Wish I'd Known Then — it's everywhere, Apple, Spotify. We're even on Substack now. Yeah, that's where everything is. Jo: Brilliant. Well, thanks so much for your time, Sara. That was great. Sara: Thank you.The post Special Editions, Seasonal Podcasts, and the Art of Low-Key Book Marketing with Sara Rosett first appeared on The Creative Penn.