Podcasts about decolonizing wellness

Melissa (she/they) is a first-generation Indian-American yoga therapist that deeply believes in applying the culture and teachings of yoga to bring to light the long standing disparities in wellness spaces. She is passionate about bringing yoga and Ayurveda back to its roots, and reclaiming representation within the wellness community. Originally from Lenape land (Queens, NY) she currently lives on Tongva + Chumash land (Los Angeles) where they work to make yoga accessible through yoga therapy, mentoring yoga teachers, mantra, pranayama, and providing holistic yoga education for community organizations Melissa also utilizes her background in public health to integrate yoga into schools and clinical settings.In this episode, we discuss the topic of representation in yoga and the wellness spaces, how professionals can do their part in decolonizing wellness, the healing powers of connecting with one's body, and more.FOLLOW MELISSA: INSTAGRAM: @findyourbreathWEBSITE: Find Your Breath - Yoga MembershipSTAY CONNECTED:INSTA: @trustandthriveTIKOK:@trustandthriveTWITTER: @trustandthriveFACEBOOK: bit.ly/FBtaramontWEBSITE: www.tara-mont.com EMAIL: trustandthrive@gmail.com

⁠Shirin⁠ is a dedicated teacher, facilitator, and guide specializing in mindfulness and mindset. She has been featured as a wellness expert on the Today Show, The New York Times, Shape, and Cosmopolitan Magazine. After a decade as an award-winning opera singer, performing at prestigious venues like the Metropolitan Opera and Carnegie Hall, Shirin was burnt out and unhappy. This experience taught her that true fulfillment comes from within, not from external achievements. Through the practices of mindset and mindfulness, Shirin rediscovered her joy, resilience, and motivation. Now, as a coach, she helps others achieve both inner and outer fulfillment as they pursue their goals. She believes that we all have the power to heal, teach, and lead ourselves, and her mission is to empower women to reconnect with their inner wisdom. Shirin is certified by the International Coach Federation and integrates her background in meditation, spirituality, and the arts into her holistic approach to transformation. She has even developed her own coach certification program ⁠Wholehearted Life Coaching Certification: A decolonized approach to heart-centered coaching.⁠ A captivating speaker, she has presented at various events, including ALT Summit, Ignite Women Summit, Well Summit, Heal Haus, and the Assemblage. Additionally, she is the co-founder of The Glow Up and Brown Girl Brunch and hosts two podcasts, Wholehearted Coaching: The Podcast and Two Girls Talking Shit. ___________ Work with me, your host,  here: ⁠Thelovelyalea.com⁠  Get my free MAGIC MENTOR guide at ⁠thelovelyalea.com⁠ Become a Patreon Member to get behind the scenes, extra content, and workshops.⁠patreon.com/thelovelyalea⁠ Follow me on Instagram ⁠instagram.com/thelovelyalea⁠ ( Remember I will never DM you for readings - watch out for Scammers ! ) Check out my workshops at ⁠Spiritualshitschool.com⁠ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thelovelyalea/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thelovelyalea/support

Episode 112. It's official. It is here. This week's episode is all about the new podcast, The Innovative Therapist Podcast. This name and shifting of the podcast reflects my internal shifts, and who I am becoming and permission for all of us to think more creatively with regards to how we think about healing. In this episode, I will tell you what to expect in the new podcast. What will be different and what will be the same. I will also share how I am different, and some of the experiences and people that led to those shifts. I cannot wait to share it with you! What to Expect in this episode: My reason for changing the name of the podcast to The Innovative Therapist Podcast Who it is geared towards (FYI: it isn't just for therapists, but for anyone interested in thinking deeply and creatively about innovative approaches to healing) Why I am probably not going to be recording in the same space anymore, and why How the shifts you see in this podcast and other aspects of my business reflect internal shifts happening in me, and me learning to listen to and trust my body more and more (aka "walking the walk," if you will) What to expect in the future (e.g., more interviews with therapists who have paved their way and began doing meaningful work outside of the traditional 1 on 1 client work, among other creative guests and solo topics), more interviews with therapists and other professionals willing to challenge the status quo and question our traditional way of doing things (e.g., like my conversation with Dr. Adia Gooden a long time ago where we talked about sharing about ourselves as psychologists and how it's so different than what we learned to do in training) The book I'm reading right now, Decolonizing Therapy by Dr. Jennifer Mullan, and what I'm learning from it so far and how it's helping me think creatively about our role as helping professionals and some of the reasons the traditional therapy model never felt quite right to me (and how this book is adding to the learning I got from reading Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey, Check out my conversation with Dalia Kinsey to explore this) How and why I'll be continuing to explore evidence-based approaches as well as other "alternative" healing modalities (with less official research backing, but equally as important explore with an open mind) What I'm thinking in terms of the motivation questions at the end, and the music for the podcast, and how I'm letting a lot of this evolve naturally (and how incredibly different that is from my prior approaches) Things coming up in my world that I'm excited about! The Innovative Therapist Retreat Oct 7-10th in Norton Shores, Michigan, Local Outdoor Therapist Meetups in West Michigan, sign up for updates here! DrHondorp.com/Meetups, and other community building online offerings coming soon! Other Mentors & Resources Mentioned Natalie Miller and The Mind Witchery podcast Randi Rubenstein and Mastermind Parenting What is The Innovative Therapist Podcast All About? The Innovative Therapist podcast is for you if you want honest conversations about what works and what doesn't for learning to trust our bodies and doing deeply healing work (for our clients and ourselves) It's about having honest conversations with therapists and other professionals about their journeys and how they learned to listen to themselves and pursue work that felt deeply meaningful and energizing to them “I know I shouldn't focus on weight loss, but…” (Polarized Parts Alert!) Are you feeling unsure how to guide a client who wants to improve their relationship with food, but also wants to lose weight? We offer this super cool transformational exercise that can help your clients work to understand their polarized parts, build self-trust and listen to their intuition! This free PDF gives step-by-step instructions for doing one of my all-time favorite exercises (based on Internal Family System...

Episode 100: Celebrating a Journey of Inspiring Insights and Life-Changing Quotes If I had a dollar for every time I thought about or referenced something one of my podcast guests said, I'd be a very rich woman. Over the course of this podcast, I've had the privilege of meeting and learning from some truly incredible humans, and today, I'm thrilled to celebrate them by sharing some of my favorite moments and quotes with you. Buckle up, because this is going to be a fun one! In this special episode, we'll dive into the heart of our conversations, unpacking some of the most impactful topics and quotes that have stuck with me, and you, over these 100 episodes. Join Our Upcoming Workshop! Sign up to join today! What to Expect in this Interview First up, we'll explore the nuanced world of weight and health with some key quotes from the wonderful Jenn Radke of the Fat Girl Book Club podcast and Marie-Pier from The Balanced Dietitian. Their insights shed light on the importance of understanding the complexities of body weight and health without judgment or oversimplification. Next, we'll jump into the complex (and yet also simple) realm of Intuitive Eating. Samantha Barash and Dr. Kim Daniels will share their wisdom, breaking down what Intuitive Eating truly is and what it isn't. You'll discover when it works wonders and why it might not be the right approach for everyone. In the section on challenging the status quo, we'll hear diverse perspectives on courageously questioning the norms and biases in research. Dr. Michelle Segar, the author of No Sweat and The Joy Choice, will share her process with what it took to share her groundbreaking work that challenged ideas what "counts" for exercise. Then, Dalia Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness, will shed light on the ways research often overlooks the experiences of marginalized folks, particularly people of color. My personal favorite topic comes next – navigating the nuance of eating and weight concerns. You won't want to miss the profound insights shared by my guests on how to approach this field both as individuals and professionals. It's a transformative section that will enrich your understanding and practice. We have a star-studded lineup of guests that you'll get to hear from in this section: Dr. Jillian Murphy will kick things off, and her interview impacted me so deeply that I've already played it twice on the podcast before today. Shadoe Ball will share her personal story about the challenges of implementing Intuitive Eating, providing a relatable and eye-opening perspective. Amy Braden opens up about her journey through weight-inclusive care and Intuitive Eating, following her decision to pursue weight loss surgery. Jessi Holden, MS, RD, will discuss why she advises her Intuitive Eating clients to sometimes unfollow Intuitive Eating social media accounts, sparking an intriguing conversation. Dr. Yami of The Veggie Doctor Radio will engage in thought-provoking discussions about food addiction, vegan diets, and navigating the worlds of Intuitive Eating/Health at Every Size and Whole Food Plant-Based living. Dr. Robyn Pashby will share her perspective on the term "obesity" and how it can be used to reduce weight bias, rather than perpetuate it. Racheal Rickabaugh will take us through her experiences with an obesity medicine doctor, leading to a profound turning point in her health journey. Last but not least, we'll hear from Dr. Adia Gooden, who will share insights into achieving unconditional self-worth and navigating the path to personal growth. This interview is packed with valuable wisdom, so get ready to be inspired and uplifted! Many of these conversations have stuck with me, and I still find myself revisiting them when needed. So, join me as we celebrate the incredible journey of 100 episodes and the lasting impact these guests have made in the lives of me and countless listeners.

When I read the book “Decolonizing Wellness, A QTBIPOC Centered to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image and Achieve Body Liberation”, I know Dalia needed to be on the podcast! After this interview I wanted more, and you better believe Dalia will be back, as the interview could have gone for so much longer.  […] The post Decolonizing Wellness, with Dalia Kinsey RD, LD appeared first on Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, Intuitive Eating Columbus OH.

On this episode of the “Better Than Fine” podcast, host Darlene Marshall is joined by featured guest, author, activist, and Registered Dietician, Dalia Kinsey.   Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness, shares a vision of nutrition as self-care and personal empowerment, rejecting diet culture, and the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice. The most trusted name in fitness is now expanding into the wellness world. Become an NASM Certified Wellness Coach and you'll be able to guide and motivate clients to make lasting changes through mental and emotional well-being, recovery, and more. https://bit.ly/3B3lnIL

Join us as we chat about the things in life that seem to be the most difficult to shop for: bathing suits, shoes, glasses, and life partners! Sandy's been ruminating a bit about the word “should” and we decide that we should definitely talk about it a bit more. Finally we debate whether you should eat the most delicious thing on your plate first or if you should save the best for last. What do you do?   **Show Notes** Podcast we mentioned: We Can Do Hard Things Book we mentioned: Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey

"We have offered a model, the seven circles, that helps people to understand that it's not just food and fitness, which so many wellness practitioners purport. It's not just diet and exercise. It's not just the way that you look on the outside or the $90 yoga pants that you can afford, or the fancy studio class or the 25 ingredient smoothie that costs $25. You know, those are unfortunately the images that we have now when it comes to wellness. And that's why so many people continue to feel excluded and uninterested in wellness. It seems so superficial. And so what I hope is that we have incorporated all these other elements to show people that not only can they be a wellness person who participates or who practices wellness, but they are already. We are all on this journey to some degree already." So says Chelsey Luger. Luger and her husband Thosh Collins are wellness teachers, authors, and the founders of the indigenous wellness initiative, Well for Culture. Launched in 2013, Well For Culture was established to reclaim ancient Native wellness philosophies and practices to promote the wellbeing of the physical, spiritual, mental, and emotional self. From their exploration and practice, the two have developed a holistic model for modern living which they share with us in their first book, The Seven Circles: Indigenous Teachings for Living Well.  According to Luger and Collins, these seven circles—food, movement, sleep, community, sacred space, ceremony, and connection to land—are interconnected, working together to keep our lives in balance. In our conversation, we begin to explore these many aspects of health, as Luger and Collins explain how their teachings can be adapted to every life, and how to do so while maintaining respect and reverence for the Indigenous origins of the wisdom and practices they share. We discuss their work to reframe wellness, how to integrate spirituality into movement through intention, and the power of the hollow bone mentality. Healing and wellness is not just a journey of one, they tell us, but rather a journey of family and community: When we take the important steps to heal ourselves, we contribute to the health of all. I was very moved by this conversation, which we'll turn to now. EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: Creating a true connection to movement… Misappropriation… Fools Crow and the Hollow Bone Theory… Creating agreements with ourselves around technology… MORE FROM CHELSEY & THOSH: The Seven Circles: Indigenous Teachings for Living Well Check out their initiative: Well for Culture Native Wellness Institute Follow Thosh on Instagram  Follow Chelsey on Instagram To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What was your relationship to food and body image like in college? Many clients report their disordered eating behaviors began or worsened during the college years. And many did not receive care or support during this time which is why, in part, they still struggle with food and body image today. What is the impact of diet culture on college students? In what ways does the college environment impact students from marginalized communities differently? Especially for those in bigger bodies who were routinely prescribed and praised for their (often harmful) weight loss efforts during the college years: what are ways you can heal from disordered eating, even years after you've graduated? In today's episode, Melissa interviews Dr. Hortencia Jimenéz, professor, sociologist, and health coach to discuss her perspectives on: What it means to consider eating disorders and anti-diet work from an anti-oppressive lens How generational diet trauma gets tangled up with college educational systems and environments How to make meaning of your own disordered eating behaviors during your college years so you can experience healing today 3 ways community care can impact and support individuals at risk for eating disorders and disordered eating in the college setting Episode Resources: Follow Dr. Hortencia Jimenéz on Instagram @drhortencajimenez Support Hortencia's work on Venmo with a donation: https://account.venmo.com/u/Hortencia-Jimenez-4 Read about White Supremacy Culture: https://www.dismantlingracism.org/uploads/4/3/5/7/43579015/okun_-_white_sup_culture.pdf Hortencia mentions the book “Decolonizing Wellness” by Dalia Kinsey - available on Amazon Join the Break the Diet Cycle Podcast Community: @break.the.diet.pod Connect with Melissa on Instagram: @no.more.guilt This episode was sponsored by No More Guilt with Melissa Landry Get the 3 Steps to Eat without Guilt Guide: https://mailchi.mp/d9207e0baf90/nomoreguiltguide Want coaching support for a life of No More Guilt? Right now, Melissa is only accepting 1:1 clients. You can apply at www.melissalandrynutrition.com or message her on Instagram @no.more.guilt to learn more. Group coaching programs are currently on hold, but Melissa may entertain bringing back groups in time for 2023 for the right set of women really ready to do this work! If you are interested in staying in the loop of any upcoming groups, you can put your name on the waitlist here: https://mailchi.mp/5d3986bd6987/nomoreguiltgroups --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/breakthedietcycle/message

Yael R Rosenstock Gonzalez (she/her) is a sex educator, sex coach, researcher, author, speaker, curriculum developer, and workshop facilitator. As a queer, polyamorous, white-presenting Nuyorican Jew, Yael has always been interested in understanding the multi-level experiences of individuals. This led her to found Kaleidoscope Vibrations, LLC, a company dedicated to supporting and creating spaces for individuals to explore and find community in their identities. Through her company, she facilitates workshops, develops curriculum, offers Identity Exploration Coaching, and publishes narratives often left out of mainstream publishing.This episode we explore:Honoring boundaries in community spaces and navigating POC spaces as a white presenting personFinding belonging and claiming identity as a multi-ethnic personDiversity in the Jewish diaspora Promoting inclusive representations of human experience in publishing Episode ResourcesDecolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationBali Retreat March 19-25 2023https://kvibrations.com/https://www.sexpositiveyou.com/https://www.instagram.com/yaelthesexgeek/https://www.tiktok.com/@yaelthesexgeekHello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host, Dalia Kinsey, holistic registered dietitian, and the author of Decolonizing Wellness.My work is centered on amplifying the health and happiness of LGBTQI+ and BIPOC people. And that is also what we do here at Body Liberation for All. I wanna remind you, I am hosting the Decolonizing Wellness Eco-Luxury QTBIPOC retreat in Bali in March. So if you are a person who loves the plan way in advance, like I do. This is when you want to book. This is a great time to give yourself plenty of room to break the trip into payments and to get all of your ducks in a row. If you aren't going to be able to join us, but you know someone who this retreat could be life changing for, please make sure you share it. Substack makes sharing so easy on their platform. So if you visit daliakinsey.substack.com to listen to this episode you'll see it's just a click of a button. Today's guest, the Yael Rosenstock has so much knowledge in different areas that we cover a lot of territory in this conversation. There was still so much more that we could have dug into that hopefully at a later date we'll get to revisit. Today we explore a little bit of the lived experience of being a white presenting person who lives shoulder to shoulder with POC within the family, but out in the world is not having the same experience as the family members that have a darker complexion. Since we already know race is not actually real from a scientific perspective, it's totally a social construct, your skin color itself will to a large extent determine how much lived experience you have as a person of color or as a white person, regardless of what the socialization inside of your house is like because so much of the POC experience, if you're living in a colonized country, if you're living in a country that has its roots in white supremacy, so much of the experience is informed by the anti-Blackness or the anti-POCness that you're going to encounter out in the world.That does not in any way invalidate the cultural uniqueness of people who are in these very blended families and happen to have pale skin or white skin. So it's interesting to me to hear directly from somebody having this experience. It's an interesting concept to look at on an individual level. What does the fact that race is fictional and totally social have? How does that all play out - when you know you are culturally different from the white folks who do not have POC blood relatives that they live with and are close with but at the same time you know that you're not experiencing the same level of marginalization. What is that like? I rarely bother to claim my Latinx heritage. Because the anti-blackness that I have encountered in a lot of Spanish-speaking circles here in the US is so intense it doesn't make any logical sense for me to keep trying to be somewhere that I don't feel welcome.Some of these themes that Yael shares, the feeling of not enoughness when you are more than one thing or when you've only been presented with a narrow definition of what it means to hold a particular identity, is so relatable. I know not just to us, it's so relatable to so many people, because the ways that we define certain identities are so narrow it naturally leaves out a large number of people. The work that Yael is doing to promote the authentic representation of a wide variety of human experience at her publishing company feels like such a natural extension of this lived experience that she has of knowing how difficult it can be to really claim and embody our identities when we haven't seen anything similar reflected back to us. I love this. Entire conversation. I know you will too. Let's jump right into it. Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence.  This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: I definitely wanted to cover the concept of white passing fragility. But then I want to definitely talk about your other projects and just what you're doing with intersectionality.Yael: Okay. I do want to warn that there's a very good chance that that will not. Some people will really like that idea of the white passing fragility, but others won't because right. The author of that book has become super famous and super rich off of a book around racism as a white woman. And just giving you a fair warning that this may or may not be taken so well.Dalia: And then that's so interesting too, because it seems like people should be compensated for good work or things that they do with good intentions.Dalia: But so often people who are in social justice are on the struggle bus financially, but, and that almost seems to be the expectation. Like you have to be a martyr to break down systems of oppression. But then I also am conflicted because it seems like all the time, white people continue to profit off of pain from people of color and especially Black people in this country. Even when you look at who makes money off of depictions of just Black suffering in general, whether it's another movie about slavery, even if it's a "fun" spin on it, like the Django or something, which I refuse to watch, I just don't understand how we're not seeing how problematic that is, but at least hers originally started out with intentions that seemed more educational.Dalia: Like I think it's a little more sketch to create a film or a piece of entertainment that centered on Black pain. And then all the money goes to somebody who's not Black. I mean, not at all, but the majority, most of it, right. It seems less sketchy, but it is sketchy nonetheless.Dalia: And I've been having a lot of feelings around these white savior complexes that are popping out these days. And people not understanding that, hey, maybe people want to be the hero of their own damn story and guess what, maybe they are ready are.Yael: But you're in the wayDalia: I know. Right? Or like you just exhausting people showing up to the March and explaining to everybody how, you know, you're being white the right way. I don't know if you've seen that play out in real life where people try constantly schooling other white people on how to be more. Down, I guess is the expression, but it doesn't really translate, but it's so rare that people confront people like that because their competition or the people that you have to compare them to you sometimes are so problematic that by comparison, they seem amazing.Yael: Yeah, I like this better.Dalia: So it's like, should I even say anything?Dalia: So I don't know.Yael: Considering that most of my spaces are POC and or Latin. I don't have that many white saviors.Dalia: Smart. Okay. Is that by design or is that coincidental?Yael: Well, I think at first it's coincidental, right? Just like growing up in a mixed neighborhood with a mixed family.Yael: It just is what happened. I was in a school with folks of different groups. And so that just continued. And then when I did reach middle school and there were white people who were just white, not Latin, like, I mean, there were a couple in elementary, but not many. And. I just felt really uncomfortable in the space.Yael: And that was like my assigned group. Cause I wasn't dark enough to be in the Latin group, I think. And also like the Latin group was like ghetto fab. Like I also wore my hair back slicked back. I also had the lip liner, and I had the big hoop earrings as well,Dalia: But like it wasn't enough.Yael: It was a, it was a browner Latin group. And so I felt like I shouldn't be part of it. Like I was friends with them, but I shouldn't be part of it because I didn't look the same. And so I just like ended up, even though I was friends with all the other groups, I ended up in the white girl group and I was just like, this is uncomfortable. Like, I don't agree with the things they say.Yael: I like rebelled a bit and basically got kicked out. And so I think after that, I was just like, I'm going to try and choose. So I don't think I've ever been like, I'm unwilling to be friends with white people because that doesn't seem nice either. But the same reason that folks have affinity groups, right?Yael: The same reason we hang out with queer people as queer people, the same reason you hang out with Latin people if you're Latin or Black and Black is because you don't want to have to explain certain things. And I'm tired. And so I don't go into all white spaces cause I get nervous about why are they all white?Yael: Like what's the intention behind this group. Is there an ulterior motive and I, yeah, I just like, I don't want to have to explain things that I end up becoming that white person, the white savior being like, that's not how. I joined a book club once. And they were talking about how, like, it didn't make sense that this person was referencing their dreams.Yael: Like it's not like a real thing. And I was like, this person is Mexican. And I don't know that much about Mexicans, but in like Caribbean culture dreams can be really important.Dalia: Oh wait. They were saying like a literal dream, not goals that they were struggling with finding meaning in their dream and they thought that was weird?Yael: Yeah. He was writing a memoir and he was referencing how he thought his dream was related to the, like what was happening in his life and that he had seen a Wolf or something. Right. He has indigenous culture roots, right as a Mexican-American. But they were just like, no, that's like, he's just making that up from the memoir.Dalia: But no, because that's extremely common.Yael: Yeah. Like they couldn't fathom it.Dalia: That is fascinating. So this is so interesting, can you share your marginalized identities? Because I think the experience of being white presenting is interesting in that you may be exposed to things that I might never hear, because I didn't even know that, I didn't even notice that white people weren't doing that all the time too.Dalia: Because at work at the moment I'm working in a majority Black office. And people are constantly talking about, you know, oh, I saw this, I wonder if it's a sign and we all have different religious backgrounds too. Somebody even started wearing a hair net because they're afraid somebody might get some of their hair that was shedding and put roots on them. None of us thought that was weird. We were all like, oh, if you feel it's necessary, you do that. You make sure you're not,Yael: You save yourself. It may or may not be real. It may or may not be. I'm always like, I rather be careful then sorry.Dalia: Exactly. Absolutely. Nobody said anything when I came into the room to sage it because I thought that we had some bad mojo in there.Dalia: People said, make sure you get my desk.. Someone came in with holy water. Like we had a very problematic coworker , and we were like, get all the stuff we're clapping in the corners.Yael: I was friends with one of the custodians where I used to work and she's an older woman. She was like the age of maybe like between mother and grandmother.Yael: And she brought me a bracelet because she was. You're very joyful and you're pretty. And I just think that someone's going to send you a curse. made me a bracelet to protect me from maldiciones. She just didn't want me to get hurt.Dalia: And you immediately put it on. You're like, okay, thanks.Yael: I mean, first off, like I appreciate that you're caring about me and no, I don't think it's weird.Yael: I've worn, evil eyes before, you know, like, to me, I think that the bigger thing for us is like whether or not we participate or whether or not we're like, yes, this is real when I talk about ghost stories, I share all the ghost stories. I know. Was I there? No. Was it real? I don't know. Cause I wasn't there, but it could be .Dalia: It's so dismissive to be like, oh, that's so dumb. What? Who says that -only people who are very sheltered and are under the impression that their way is the only way.Yael: This was a group about social justice. The people are lovely and the ones who hosted, I actually adore. They are fantastic.Yael: And they weren't the ones who were having this question, but I remember one person in particular, she was just totally dismissive. And I was just like, I don't understand. And I didn't show up for a couple of years, but then I came back and I was like, okay, my role is going to be giving the perspective of not these people in the case that this comes up again, because they keep reading books by people of color. And like, I don't have the same perspective. Like I said, I'm not Mexican. I don't know what they do. But I have a feeling that this is like something that's shared, like it's a native American thing.Yael: It's a Latin thing. It's a Black thing. Like I just feel, you know, Asian cultures, everyone, actually.Dalia: I know this is whats so bizarre.Yael: There are definitely white people who also have that as a practice and Jews, a lot of us who do pass it are white or pass as white, like that's also part of our culture.Dalia: And that's another thing. So this is one of my big questions. So, you identify as Latin X?Yael: Yes, I'm LatinaDalia: You're Latina and you're Jewish. And so does that mean your mother is your Jewish parent.Yael: That is actually, so...Dalia: does that matter or is that like out of date or…Yael: No, that is an excellent question. My parents tried to enroll me in what's called Yeshiva because they didn't like the local public school.Yael: And so they wanted to put me in a Jewish school and I got rejected because my mother is Catholic and my father is Jewish. And as you like are insinuating, like the religion follows the mother. Now that school accepts muts like me of my form. They no longer discriminate against us, but because my parents couldn't put me in the Jewish school.Yael: I went to an Episcopalian school.Dalia: Oh, wow, you were all over the place.Yael: Yeah. So I got a good Christian education .Dalia: Oh, and how did your dad manage,, was he a little heartbroken? Like, Ooh, not what I had in mind.Yael: Well, it was a small school. There wasn't a religion class, but like every morning we started with prayers and every Wednesday we had mass and I just, I didn't know they wanted me to be Jewish. I thought they were saying, here are our religions. You go to Sunday Jewish school. You go to day school with Christians. Figure out your path. And so I very confidently figured out my path. I was like, I am Jewish. And like, I am now very knowledgeable about Christian stuff. But actually they did want me to be Jewish and they had warned the school that that was what they wanted.Dalia: I was under the impression, and this may not be accurate. Is that like a modern Jewish person may be a little more secular and maybe they know some of the traditions and then maybe they go to synagogue for special events or, but still feel that strong cultural identity.Dalia: And then don't really feel, I feel like they should be dropped into that white American bucket with everybody else because they're separate as an ethnic group. Whereas other white ethnic groups (in America) gave up their separateness for the most part.Yael: Interesting. So I haven't done much study into the question, but I have a friend who sent me, who sends me lots of articles, Catherine.Yael: And she sent me an article about whether or not Jews are white and my coworker, Asia Gray, who does our anti-racism curriculum and what have you. One of the books was, how antisemitism was the original racism. And so that's part of the way that she talks about oppression and like structural oppressions and what have you.Yael: And she starts that story there and it's like Jews became white if you are white, but there are Black Jews. There are like plenty of Middle Eastern Jews that have more color there are Russian Jews, the Sephardic Jews, the Mizrahi in general. So there are plenty of Jews of color and then they're like me Ashkenazi, which are of German roots, right. German and certain parts of Russia, roots and Poland and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah. Yes, it is a different, I agree. It's different ethnic group. Like you can trace us back when I did that blood test, I literally come out 49% Ashkenazi. I'm from Germany, even though I can, I can trace my roots on a family tree that's physical to the 15 hundreds. It says I'm Ashkenazi. Wasn't mentioned Germany because the Jewish blood is what it picks up. And so, yes, I agree. Like there's like this ethnic thing there and that's why you can be a secular person of a religion.Yael: I mean, there are plenty of secular Christians, right. That celebrate Christmas and what have you. But there's like this certain level of like the foods that you eat and the mannerisms that you have and like certain cultural values. I don't identify it as a secular Jew I identify as reform, which is like a less observant Jew.Dalia: Now, how did you feel your queer identity meshes with Judaism? It's rumored to be an easier mesh. Is that true? Are Christians just being jealous?Yael: I think it is an easier, easier. I mean, I know plenty of Christians that are queer, but my synagogue, I don't remember how old I was, but she bat mitzvah'd me so young enough for that had a lesbian rabbai.Yael: And she got married at our synagogue and we were just a regular reform synagogue. Right. We weren't like, ah, where the most social justice progressive synogauge, we were just a reform synagogue. And we did lose some of the older parishioners and I imagine some other age ones, when she joined as the rabbi, but for the most part, everyone was like, love who you love.Yael: Right? Like that's not an issue. And she was a woman rabbi and my next rabbi was also a woman, right? So like that's super common. It's even starting very slowly in the Orthodox community, which is one of the more observant sects of Judaism to have women rabbis. And so overall I think that shift is, is more common in our space .Dalia: The idea of there being Jewish people of color is interesting to me, because it seems like in the states, people are under the impression that that's not a thing. Can you tell us about the work that you're doing for representation, and as far as intersectionality goes as a very fair skin person of color.Yael: Sure so I think the most thing that the thing that directly relates is that I'm part of the diverse bodies project. The idea is a nude photo interview series, intended to increase representation of who gets seen and photograph naked and how you want to be represented.Yael: So it's not that you had to do a sexy shot or you had to do a serious shot that people get to bring their personalities in through the photographs and show who they are. And that was really important to us and something that we did because it's been taken us forever. But the mini books that we've already released is the Jews flying the rainbow flag mini books.Yael: And so it's got five different Jews and we had plenty of Jews participate but featured five different Jews ranging from like early twenties to, I think, sixties and out of the five of them. Two of them are Black. One of the Black Jews is also Latin, so she's Afro Dominican. And the point of that was to be like folks exist, you know, and it's so common for you to be like, this is what a Jew looks like when.Yael: Yeah, sure a lot of us do look like me. There are Black Jews. There are Latin Jews, there are Asian Jews, there are all the types. And so that was really important to us that we highlight that these are two queer Black Jewish women and they get as much space in this little book as anyone else.Yael: I will say part of my work and that's what we got into the white white passing fragility talk is that I don't identify as a person of color. And who knows, maybe I'll change that at some point. I choose not to identify that way. Cause it feels appropriative. And to be like, just because I have another language or just because my family may have a bunch of people of color and it doesn't mean that I'm existing as a person of color.Yael: And so when I walked through the street, people see me as white and that's just true. But I do enter, and I was asked this question recently, so why do I enter people of color spaces? And it's cause I'm, I'm feel safer there. I feel more connected there. I don't feel blegh there. And so if people are willing to have me, which they generally are, most people of color spaces are open to white presenting Latin folk. Then I just asked permission and I join.Dalia: That's interesting and I knew that, and I forgot that when I said that, because I know I'm very used to- anybody who says they're a person of color. I was just like, okay, like, it's the response? Because especially, you know, Black American, no, actually.Dalia: Latin people even more than Black Americans come in all kinds of shades and colors, and you can't look at somebody and have any clue what even their parents look like. And that a lot of times really informs their experience as far as how they were treated growing up, because it is funny to me how depending on who you're sitting beside, people may perceive your color differently, which just goes to show how arbitrary our understanding of race is..Dalia: Like number one, we know it's not a real biological thing, but like you said, it's the experience that creates the cultural differences. It's the lived experience that matters. So if, when you are out in the world, people treat you as though you are white well then you are having the white experience.Dalia: And that is really the key difference. But I have biracial friends who, if they were with their brown parent, they get treated differently and are even perceived differently versus with the other parent, which I just think is fascinating.Yael: Well, my parents are both white. My dad is white Ashkenazi and my mother is a white presenting Latina.Yael: My uncle, my abuela they would have been identified as POC, but not my mother. And so when I'm with my mother, it was the same thing. People don't realize she speaks Spanish. She's been spoken about by people who were like checking her out.Dalia: Well, it's just interesting to me. And I don't know if this happens everywhere or if it's some of our American brainwashing, but like all the time people act as though Spanish is. Secret language. And I'm like, what is wrong with you? It is so, so common. And the people who speak it look so many different ways and you don't have to only speak English, your heart language, or your first language.Dalia: Like, that's another thing I'm like, you do realize that maybe she can speak Spanish as a second language or not all latin people look the same. I really don't understand the disconnect with that because I've been spoken about in Spanish to my frigging face so many times, and I do speak Spanish. And usually, I mean, unless they're saying something really rude, usually people are trying to guess whether or not the person I'm with is my husband or my what's the male form of mistress.Dalia: I bet there isn't one, right? Oh,Yael: LoverDalia: Yeah, it just goes to show like, if there isn't a word that connotes, not a legitimate partner, because you're not married to them that's some more sexist shenanigans, but yeah, it's just interesting to me that people make that assumption so often. So what has your experience been like trying to stay connected to your Latin roots when so often people are very narrow about what they consider to be Latin?Yael: So it's funny because all of our countries have folks, all the Latin countries have folks that look like me. And like most of the countries have folks that look like you, right? It's not, we're not anomalies in these spaces.Yael: And so I actually, I was convinced I needed to prove myself. Like my mother, I felt counted as real Latina because she was raised in Puerto Rico. Her first language is Spanish. Like that seems to me like check that counts. But me I'm half Ashkenazi. I look, the way that I do my Spanish for awhile was pretty crappy.Yael: And so I, I felt the need to prove myself. All my friends were Latina and I was like, I must be more Latina. I must speak this fluently. And I must eat the food. And I am an incredible salsa dancer at this point. So, but that was all me. Right. And perhaps white people and perhaps Black people who weren't Latin.Yael: Right. And that, if I said I was. The response was always like, oh really? Unless I turned around and then they're like, I see it in your butt now I know that you're Latin because of your butt, like, literally the number of times people have been like, I believe you because of your shape. Otherwise I wouldn't have counted you.Yael: Whereas on the flip side with Latin folks, there's really not much surprise. They don't assume I'm Latina. But if I start speaking Spanish or they see me dancing or whatever, like they ask me, where are you from? They don't ask me, are you at the end of the ask me? Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. Assume that I am. And they're right, because for them, it's not so surprising to see someone who looks like me, but I think, and it's when you think of immigration, you're going to assume that more white Latins are going to migrate because of mean.Yael: Whereas you have browner and Blacker people migrating because of need. And so if you're hanging out with folks from your same social class, which will end up being also your same racial categorization, because those are very linked to whether or not we all want to admit it in the Americas as well.Yael: And all the Americas. So like, I think that that's part of it, right? You're used to hanging out with other brown people. And so even though your country has plenty people who look like me, you never associated with associated with them. Either. They were from a different region or they were from a different social class.Yael: And so they went to different schools and they had different access. And so I think that's more it, but like Latin people never not include me.Dalia: Oh, that's interesting. So it was really more just internal.Yael: Yeah. I was like in TV, none of the Latinas looked like me. All of my friends were darker than me.Yael: And so I was like, I need to be darker. And my abuela ? When I went to go visit her, she was like, no sunscreen. We need to get you more dark.Dalia: That is so interesting to me because that I've seen more often the opposite experience. So first I think when I turn on Univision, everybody's white and the housekeeper looks like she has some indigenous ancestry.Dalia: She doesn't get to say anything, except like, let me get that for you.Yael: They're white almost. They're like what I call exotic white. Like they have, what's considered what I consider the stereotypical, Latin of means look, which is like, they have very heavily European race roots, but they were at some point mixed with other races.Yael: And so they have like olive tone skin, dark hair, like certain whatever. And I don't have. It's like, I'm actually just white passing.Dalia: Yeah. Oh yeah. That makes sense. That distinction. Yeah. I can see that for sure. Like a Sophia Vergara type of, yeah.Dalia: But at the same time I'm sure when she is home, she would be called white, but it's just, when you weave and you come here, then you you've turned into some exotic white.Yael: Yes. And that like that to me is like an interesting thing too. Like if in your own country you are white and then you come here and you're like, I'm a person of color.Yael: What changed? And it's true. Our racial dynamics are very different in each country, but it's interesting to me that, like, I mean, you don't necessarily, people don't identify necessarily as white or Black or what have you. That's not part of, most of the country's ways of self. They just don't do that. And then some countries that like became illegal like you don't put that stuff on the birth certificates, like you just don't name race. But in my head, I'm like you can recognize hopefully that people look different in your country and that you're having different experiences based on that. So when you come to this country, why do you claim this identity?Yael: Or if your family came to this country, why do you claim this identity when you were still white passing?Dalia: Well, yeah, that is really interesting. And what is funny to me, especially for Dominicans, just because I hear this from them more than anybody else, that your race, it feels like it did change during the flight because your treatment was completely different.Dalia: And maybe back home, you were part of the dominant group culturally and power structure wise. And this is the first time people are treating you as though you're an other. And so maybe your identity will shift them because race really is a social construct. So you can make a flight and your race changes.Yael: Yes, totally agree. But also those are Afro Dominican, right? Then being put into a category that is on the lower end of, or possibly the lowest end of our racial categories in the U S. And so they're going from being the norm to going to being the most marginalized population in the country. Whereas if you are a light skinned or white passing Latina you were going from being the highest, probably social class in your country to be not too far down. You might feel like you're all of a sudden, like super oppressed, because you're not used to any form of oppressio nDalia: that see, that really says a lot. And it is the author, speaking of white passing fragility, the writer of white fragility says, you know, like 97% feels like a horrible loss or injustice when you're used to a hundred percent.Yael: Oh, wow. Nice quote.Dalia: And I say that, and I'm like, she probably said some other numbers, but don't look it up. Trust me. I love the idea of that perspective of asking for permission to go into these other spaces because you feel comfortable, but then also not internalizing the rejection. If somebody says, I really, I don't think it's a fit.Dalia: How did you get to that point? And how do you suggest other people who are white presenting, but feel more comfortable in browner spaces? How should they reconcile that?Yael: So I think there's like tying back with like that white savior thing that like, I need to be here.Yael: Don't get me wrong, communities are important. And again, like a lot of my community is POC and that is important to me. And also I recognize that not every space is for me. If you were going to have a men's group, I don't belong in it. When I was helping facilitate a peer sex education group, I was like, we need a leader for the abstinence and virginity group, because I am neither abstinent nor identify as a virgin, but I am a super sexual human being.Yael: And so I don't belong in this space. It does not make the space safe. This is a group led by and for folks with a certain experience. And so when you recognize that that's the point, right? Like women's groups, you don't want men. And normally we don't question that we're not like, oh, how exclusionary what's exclusionary is if you don't allow all women.Yael: All women belong in women's groups, whether they're CIS or trans. But you don't allow men because it's a woman's space. And the point is to create a space that feels safe for that population. So they can be heard, feel seen and not have to explain things that they would have to explain to someone who doesn't understand.Yael: And so to me, that is what often POC spaces are. And there's so much I can understand because I'm surrounded by POC and because my family has POC and there's so much I can't understand because I will never live it.Yael: And so if the space would be safer without my presence, then why would I want to put myself in a spot that will cause others harm when then the intension is for them to have a good space.Yael: Not every space is like that, right? Like if you go to school, if you go somewhere most spaces, unless you're like at historically Black university, right? Like you're going to be surrounded by white folks and like, no, one's questioning that. And so why shouldn't you get to be surrounded by the people you want to be surrounded with for this time period that is yours. It's your time, it's your space. And so I think for me, it's just like thinking about what is your intentions about entering it? Are you trying to contribute in a way that is helpful and wholesome and caring and supportive. Great. Is it wanted? Yes. Enter. Is it not. Go somewhere else. You can still hang out with those same people just not in that particular space that was designated at this time for this purpose.Dalia: And when you say it that way, not at this time and not this space, because I feel like a lot of people who seek out those spaces, that isn't how most of their day is, you know, it's just a little refuge and it certainly isn't that they don't want to have a fully integrated intersectional life.Dalia: Like you said, it's a break from having to explain certain things. And what's interesting is when sometimes you try and make things more and more broad. There's just more potential for issues because I have seen more on reality TV than in real life. Yes. White presenting, Latin people using certain racial slurs saying it's okay for them because they're down or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, but you're not of the group that gets to use that word and they just kept on defending it. I'm just like, okay, we're just, you're canceled. We're moving on. So there are, there can be issues where people who you would expect to not be problematic come in and are.Dalia: And so maybe some people have been burned. A few times, and now they're just, they're exhausted and they don't want to put the energy into fielding out who is safe and who is not safe.Yael: And there's nothing wrong with that. Like it's not necessarily personal, it could be personal if you're one of those people, but even the question, right?Yael: Like I wanted to advertise a job position and so I seek to advertise them first in places of color and queer spaces. And so I contacted several different groups. Oh. And then, sorry, I remember there was a posting for a DEI position at a Jewish organization. And so I started to contact the admin of different POC, Jewish groups, like a Black Jewish group, or what have you.Yael: And I said, listen, I filled out their form to enter, but I was like, I don't actually want to enter. I'm wondering if you can share this link. So folks can see the job. I am a white presenting, a Latino Jew. I ended up getting messaged even by the Black group. And they're like, oh, you can join. I was like, Black is not part of my identity.Yael: Like we, because of the Caribbean, we have those roots as well. But like I don't claim that.Dalia: It's funny. I do feel like Black people in my experience. That's why I was so I've been surprised when people have told me, they were bullied. Black kids in school who are other POC is it's always surprising to me because the town that I was raised in and the part of the south that I'm from, people still were in that space of, if you we're different enough to maybe not be able to get into a whites only area, or if the clain would have targeted you too, cause clan is not down. They're very antisemitic, they're anti everything. But then you were welcome. Like if you wanted to sit at that table, you were always welcome. Just anybody who is being othered the policy was come on in. If you have nowhere else to go, we'll take you.Yael: That's lovely. I definitely know that that's not always true. And again, it's okay. I mean, the bullying is not okay. Deciding who's in your space is, but yeah, exactly. So like I was welcomed and obviously everyone's Jewish because it's a Jewish group.Yael: And so it's, it was specifically a space built for Jews, Black Jews and some Jews of color to have a reprieve from the white Jews. White Jews often mean, well, right? Like we fill up social justice spaces, like hardcores. I've spoken to people about this, that like insofar as percentage of folks who are involved in social justice by group, I imagine that our group is one of the most heavily social justice oriented.Yael: Cause we're so small and people are like you're everywhere, but it doesn't mean that we're doing it well or that we're doing it right. And so it can be exhausting to have white Jews around because we are those white saviory types.Yael: And yeah. So I was, I was surprised and I was like, well, okay. Like I will post it myself then afterwards. And she had, she had posted already and she had written my name and giving me credit. And like I said, this person wanted to let us all know about this job.Dalia: That's very cool. It's nice to find community, but it's also very nice to know that when you're trying to create a safe space around certain parts of our identity, that there are people who understand and support, because I'm sure it's hard for some people to hold that space.Dalia: And to not feel guilty about saying no sometimes. So it's nice to know that even if not everybody understands, some people totally understand and they're not gonna lose any sleep over it. They're just going to move on to the next Facebook group and they'll be fine. And maybe you'll run into each other in another space.Dalia: That's centered around an identity that you have in common.Yael: Yeah. Exactly. And so I think that's just like, it's kinda like building resilience and you might actually be in another POC group together, but not necessarily that one.Yael: And make everybody safe because I would hate to go into a space where I was told, Hey, women are welcome. Like this happens a lot. Well, not now that everybody's at home groups are really growing and there's like a group for everything. But previously it just felt like, like in the nineties, everything that was gay or LGBTQ was CIS male dominated.Dalia: Tell us about your company and what made you want to form a publishing company and what your vision is for that company?Yael: Sure. So my company's name is Kaleidoscope Vibrations, LLC . And for anyone who's an owner, kaleidoscope is it's like this toy that had all these like gems on the bottom and you'd move your hands in opposite directions around this tuby thing. And you'd look inside and it would be create new, pretty color combinations.Yael: And so the idea is that every vibration or event in your life creates a new beautiful you, and that our identities are always forming and they're always developing. And the reason I created this company was because I was this like Jew that wasn't Jewish enough. I was this Latina that I didn't think that I looked enough or counted enough.Yael: I was queer, but not queer enough. You know, like there are all these ways and this, I, I didn't feel like I should count. And that's, that's different, right? Like that's different than choosing whether or not you belong in a space as to whether or not you feel like you matter enough to be in a space or if you, you belong.Yael: And so I created this company to help people find confidence in their identities and find their communities. So maybe. You don't belong to blank community, but you do belong to another one and then you can find the people that you need so you have a supportive, loving environment that understands you.Yael: And so I do workshops, I do identity coaching, curriculum development like inclusivity in the workspace across different identities and what have you. But we also have a publishing sect, and that's the purpose is to uplift different narratives that aren't necessarily heard. And so the first book was mine, which is An Intro Guide to a Sex Positive You.Yael: Sex is not necessarily something you think of and you're like, oh, this is not inclusive, but it really is. And so my book, I know I had someone read it, who was like, I've been looking for a book that validated my experiences as a queer person while reading it that wasn't heteronormative, right. That wasn't geared towards straight people.Yael: And it's not that my book has hetero exclusive. You can be whatever matched you with. I just don't assume what you're going to match. And so I don't add genders into my conversations in the book and that like that in and of itself, apparently at the time was somewhat revolutionary for some folks. And the next book was Luna, Luna Si, Luna.Yael: Yes. Maybe it's that Luna? Yes. Luna Si. And it is a book about two little sisters who are Latino it's in English and in Spanish. And the younger sister has autism. And she is 40% verbal. And so we often see representations of savants, right? So, and they tend to be white males. And so you have these kids who have really incredible abilities to count numbers or to memorize things, or what have you.Yael: And they often do have very good verbal capacities. They have awkward social cues because they have trouble reading it, but that's like the extent to how they represent autism. Whereas in this case, like you see how she, how she is able to communicate the form that her language takes. And you do learn about like the kinds of things that she can do.Yael: You learn about stems. So like ticks that people do to keep themselves calm and well. And that was the intention, right? link that autism comes in all colors, all ethnicities, that there are varying levels of how much people can communicate and what, you know, how much need or help they might require.Yael: And yeah, and it just, that's, it it's a story about sisters and how they love each other and how they communicate and also one of them has autism. And so that intention of bringing those to the surface and yeah, we're working on a bunch of other different possibilities as well. Another one's about anxiety.Yael: So another bilingual book, but a little girl's anxiety and what that's looked like for her.Dalia: That's really helpful. I think that more and more children are experiencing anxiety earlier. So that's definitely needed. And it is interesting how ableism racism, xenophobia, how it all plays together and how you really don't see representation of people living with a diagnosis that aren't white it's. I mean, it's almost always going to be white to the extent that when you meet someone with something as common as down syndrome, who's Asian, you're like, wow. Like, oh, I didn't know. Obviously we can all get whatever we can be born, any kind of way, human diversity, it's just what we choose to feature. That makes it seem like we aren't as diverse as we are.Yael: But then it's also the like racism that exists within the publishing space. And so even when you do have some books that are more representative in that, like the pictures have kids of all different colors, it doesn't necessarily that the author is a person of color.Yael: And so with my company, you have to have either the identities that you are discussing or someone in your like close family, someone in your close life, and you have lived this with them, right. That you are experiencing this with them. So like the author of the book autism, t he person with autism, didn't write this.Yael: She doesn't write. But her sister wrote it. And so she has lived with her sister, her, the younger one's entire life, the one who has autism so entire life. And so that was like the perspective that we were able to take. And so it's very important to me that the people who are writing the stories also have lived experience.Yael: And it's not just about like, oh yeah, we need to mix A and B and with number 3 so that we can count in this diversity world where like, you're supposed to do this. Now it's about like, this is my story, and I want you to hear it.Dalia: And the way that people tell their own story is so different from how it's told by an observer.Dalia: And people can feel that difference. Sometimes it's so subtle, but you definitely, some things just they're very difficult to fake and so right now, a lot of companies. In all sectors, not just publishing people are faking the funk right now, and it's not pretty. So it falls flat. It's all kind of, oh, this just came to me.Dalia: Did you see that woman who has been saying that? She's...Yael: who said that she was Black from the Bronx in the Bronx and is a white Jew from Kansas.Dalia: Yes, she got the hoop earrings, she got the tan and she was like, I'm ready to rock. I do not understand how this has happened more than once in such a widely publicized way in my lifetime.Yael: So I actually, let's, let's break that down a bit. So first off, she's a, she is a white Jew, right? My friend is also a white Jew. Neither of them actually presents white. Like, if you look at them, that's not the identity you're going to give them because they were darker skin tones. Right. And so it's also interesting how whiteness works that like, because they are Jewish, they are given.Yael: Right. It just, that is also so interesting. But I remember someone commented, like how did no one realize like Afro Latinas don't come that light? And I was like, hold up a second way lighter than that woman. Right. There are people who identify as Black. That is their identity. Who are way lighter than this faker.Yael: And so my thing was, you should not fake who you are, but the fact that people believed her makes total sense to me.Dalia: But it seemed like to me, what was the most damning is how. Some of her clothing choices and accessory choices, maybe they speak to her, they were so sterotypical. It just seemed a little performative.Yael: She faked three different identities.Dalia: Oh, I didn't see that part.Yael: Afro Latina was her latest identity. The one before that was Black American, the one before that was north African. Okay. She moved across the globe.Yael: No one tracked this?! Like at one point she was north African and now she's Black and now she's Afro Latina from the Bronx specifically.Dalia: That's interesting too, that extra, that, that was so important for her to feature that what trips me out about it. And I think what really troubles a lot of people about it is to know that.Dalia: Race is not real to the extent that whatever you say could literally change your experience. You just have to keep saying it and buy some hoops and you can be another person. Like, it just, she went overboard with the, just so stereotypical, but you're right. It easily could have been true going off of skin color alone.Dalia: And some people do still dress that way, even though it's not the nineties anymore.Yael: But I love my hoops in the nineties.Dalia: I did too, you know, but they're like more modern with the embellishment. It has that like handcrafted feel. I don't know what happened with the hoops. It went out for me with letting my eyebrows finally try and grow back in, but I did use to be so, so into that. But at one point I also had a Jheri curl.Dalia: So I really shouldn't talk about anybody else's since its style, I've made many mistakes over the years. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and coming on. Where can people find you? Sure.Yael: So my main thing is that I'm @yaelthesexgeek I'm a sexologist, sex coach, a sex educator.Yael: @yaelthesexgeek on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. My website is sexpositiveyou.com, so pretty easy. And then my company is kvibrations.com. And so you can find most of my things through there.Dalia: Awesome. You are doing so many different things. We didn't even touch on the sex positivity, maybe that's for another day.Dalia: Are you thinking of revisiting that book now that you know, we're kind of all in a different place as a country and as queer people? Or are there things you'd like to add? Are you going to revise that addition or write something new?Yael: Yeah. So the book is only two years old, but things change and shift so much, right? Like now there is so much more language outside of queer spaces around pronouns, but I think even in 2018, like the idea of talking about pronouns outside of queer spaces was still foreign for most, so. Yes, there are definitely, I've looked back and I'm like, oh, overall, I'm like, this is a good book.Yael: Just so you know, like people love my book and I go back, I'm like, oh, this was, this was better than you thought it was. Yes, there are, of course things I want to change, but I I'm looking into doing a teen workbook version of it. Because I wrote it for my 14 year old self, but I don't think parents of 14 year olds would be thrilled to have their kids read this book..Yael: And I think it's more of like a 16 and up kind of book. And I want to be able to reach people when they're younger because sexual trauma and boundary making and self pleasure and all of that is important before you are 18 or 16. And I also started, but I'm not going to have time right now, the nerds guide.Yael: So this is the intro guide and the nerds guide goes into the socio historical and psychological backgrounds. And so when you talk about things, Gender. I want to be able to talk about that are six sexes and genders are present in the Talmud in ancient Jewish text, rich and written 1500 years ago. I want to talk about the hijra in India, and that they have like that as a third gender that's established that how different native American communities have two spirit or don't have two spirit identities.Yael: And like, what does that mean and how do they conceptualize it? And just like, recognizing that there's so much more beyond what we talk about.Dalia: Yeah, that sounds really fascinating.Yael: Yeah. But that's going to take awhile. It's going to take research and I'm doing a PhD right now.Dalia: The list just keeps going.Yael: And that's on the back burner, that's like maybe if someone gives me a book deal, I'll work on that.Dalia: I love it. Oh, excellent. Thank you so much for coming on.Yael: Thank you for having me.Yael: I always, I really enjoy talking with you and Dalia.Dalia: Same here. Same here. You'll have to come back when you finish your nerd book or I'm sure, actually you're doing many things. I'm sure it'll be before then. Sounds good. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

Nhakia Outland (she/her/hers) is the founder of Prevention Meets Fashion Inc. She is a Black, queer, single mother of three. She is a social worker, sex educator, sex therapist in training and professor at Temple University with an extensive background in advocacy, consulting and community organizing who is passionate about finding creative ways to engage Black, LGBTIA+ communities. Nhakia's work focuses on addressing stigma and inequalities in sexual health and reproductive health (SRH) through fashion, advocacy, community and education (F.A.C.E).This episode we exploreThe impact affirming clothing can have on mental healthFinding and celebrating your aestheticThe connection between sexual health and fashion Episode Resourceshttps://www.preventionmeetsfashion.org/https://www.thecrownact.com/Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationBali Retreat March 19-25 2023Hello, and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host, Dalia Kinsey holistic registered dietitian and author of Decolonizing Wellness.This show and my work overall is dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ people.Today we're joined by Nhakia Outland. The founder of Prevention Meets Fashion. She's a black queer, single mother of three. She's a social worker, sex educator, sex therapist in training, and a professor at Temple University with an extensive background in advocacy consulting and community organizing. She's passionate about finding creative ways to engage Black, LGBTQ+ communities.Nhakia's work focuses on addressing stigma and inequalities in sexual health and reproductive health through fashion advocacy, community, and education.Nhakia and I had this conversation quite a while ago, so I'm excited to be able to bring it to you today. At the time of the episode was recorded the website for Prevention Meets Fashion wasn't up but now it is. So you can see that in the show notes and check out the events calendar. I love that the condom streetwear fashion show is an annual event.Nhakia has a lot of fabulous things going on through this nonprofit. And it was really interesting to hear about her creative process and what brought her to form the nonprofit.Before we jump into that conversation. I want to remind you that I will be hosting my first in-person retreat in Bali next March, that's March 2023. If you're hearing this and it's pre March, 2023, there may still be space. So be sure check out daliakinsey.com/retreat to see the details. It's going to be an amazing event. As always it will be centered on LGBTQIA+ BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color). However, if you are not an LGBTQIA+ BIPOC person, that doesn't mean that you can't come to the retreat.There will be a couple of healing circle events. That'll be sacred spaces for QTBIPOC folks. So those will not be events where everybody can come in and take up space. However, there will be plenty of other events that are for everyone. So if you were interested in taking a more liberatory approach to your wellness and you've done a lot of work on your own and you feel like this could be a catalyst for your growth then definitely check it out. It isn't going to be a beginner oriented event as far as healing work goes. If you've never done therapy, if you've never, read a self-help book, if you've never been in any sort of coaching situation and you're kind of new to the concept of systemic oppression having an impact on your wellness, then it's probably not the place for you to start.The retreat really is designed for people who already have an awareness of these things and are wanting to dig deeper and really wanting to be in a space where they can totally unwind and focus on the physical experience of comfort and freedom in their body. So that it's something we'll be able to re-create with ease when we get back home. The facilities are gorgeous. We'll have a chef cooking for us three meals a day. There are lots of excursions planned. We'll have one-on-one time with a Balinese healer. There will be massages. It's going to be really luxurious, but then at the same time, a little crunchy, which is totally my vibe. We'll have a touch of the outdoors. We'll be in an eco-friendly setting, but then at the same time, we're going to have access to all of our creature comforts.It's going to be great. If you can join us, you absolutely should. Go to daliakinsey.com/retreat to reserve your spot. Alright, let's get on into this conversation.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence.  This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.My name is Nhakia Outland. I am the founder and president of Prevention Meets Fashion Incorporated. We are a 501C3 nonprofit based in Philadelphia, but we will go anywhere. And our mission is to increase sexual health and knowledge in communities of color Black, LGBTQIA and nonbinary communities through fashion advocacy, community education, which stands for FACE. It is a model that I created to be able to look at the intersections of sexual health, reproductive health, racial injustice, disability rights all of these other what I call social determines of health as well into one model, instead of just naming them all the time.We look at the intersections of how many of those can be placed in fashion. How any of those could be placed in advocacy and in community and education, which to our advantage came out as face, which is a ballroom category. Which we're very excited about because my favorite category in ballroom is face.I just love when the community comes out and shines that way like, it seems like nothing else matters, but that person's face. And to see that in community that's really been, you know, hurt so many times again and again especially Black LGBTQ folks that just lights my world up when I go to ballroom competitions.But yes, I'm so excited to finally be a nonprofit. What a lot of people don't know is that we've actually been around for four years. Once I really started getting into the nitty gritty of Prevention Meets Fashion, I realized that it would, it would be so much better in a nonprofit structure to be able to open ourselves to getting grants, to getting more support to writing more curriculum and programming. So a lot of folks that follow us on Instagram and they just, you know, sometimes think that we just post, but that's the labor of love of hours of research putting snippets together to have those words in the little, in the little caption.I actually take the time my interns take the time my volunteers take the time to research things, to make sure that we're getting our perspective right.To make sure that we're getting voices heard. On our Instagram, we take it very seriously, I once said when I started this, that to me, that Instagram is just not a place for us to post pretty pictures it really is more than that for us.I remember when I first started, I talked about how I used fashion come out to my family over a certain, a number of years as queer.And I showed a picture of when I got my hair shaved on one side and how freeing that was to me for many aspects for one, I had just lost my partner.So you weren't a kid, you were an adult living outside of the home.Yes. And so I had just lost my partner and, you know so when I had shaved the side of my head, it was a freeing moment. Not only for me verbalizing my queer identity, but also that that I was shedding something that reminded me of my partner, cause they always liked my hair. So I was talking about that and someone took my whole face, whole caption, put it on there, their Instagram and people were tagging me like this is your face.And I'm like, do you know that I'm a real person? And they literally were using it. The message was correct. I think before that, but I'm a real person like you use my whole face and my whole story.Was this person, a member of the community? Yes! This person was a member of the community and a fellow, a sex educator. And this was not the first time that they did this. They actually. Took other posts and I had to call him out on it, you know, and I don't what to do that, but at least give me my credit, especially when it's my face. So I stopped a little bit from actually using my images. And the purpose of me using my images, was one, for people to know that I'm a real person, but for, two to show representation to y'all queer Black folks out there that that don't get seen as much.And to let them know that, you know, we're here, we're in every profession. You know, come and visit us, you know, and as I was like, really taken back by this, so I stopped showing my image for a while, but then the pandemic happened and people were, were like, you know, I don't think people know that you're Black owned or queer owned at all because you don't have no pictures of yourself anymore. So I began posting pictures of myself, again, posting pictures of my interns, posting pictures of my community stuff that I was doing. I do admit that I am a little bit shy and I don't give myself enough credit with Prevention Meets FashionI'm a social worker by trade and I decided to take everything, all of my experience and I absolutely adore the meaning behind fashion. And how has been used in black communities. How is being used in queer communities? Oftentimes when our voices were silenced, our clothes were loud.Interesting that you made the point though, that people don't understand how damaging it is to a small creator, small business to steal ideas, but that is the story of the Black creative's life. Like that's the story of small queer businesses. Cause you think about all the ways in which queer folks, especially queer folks of color lead the way with culture and with fashion.And how often is that stolen? And the original designer creator doesn't ever see the profits that come from their original baby, their original idea.And I, I struggled too, along the lines, just to piggyback off of that. I struggle with the Black designers who have made it.And a lot of them, you listen to a lot of them speak and how they built this from the ground up. And then they make it sort of speak and then they give credit to the Italian designer. So the white designer, oh, about what's underneath their fish and house. Then my name wouldn't be out here. The same thing with music.Like why do we feel like we have to partner with someone that don't look like us to make us big. Right. And I struggle with it. Can you speak to that? Because I've seen that issue even in myself, even as I've decided to center my show, to center my work around my queer identity and my POC identity, I still find myself being drawn when people like dangle something in front of me, that's not serving the community that I believe I'm meant to serve and I'm called to serve. I still feel like, oh, it's a shiny object because I, like so many people, was raised to think proximity to whiteness is proximity to success. And even though, especially the way things are shifting now, we definitely don't need them.People need us, but because we're the ones who've been socialized to believe the opposite, we keep falling for it. So what do you do when you see that in yourself? Is that something that can only be addressed on a systemic level? Where you never affected by that?I think I would be lying if I say I wasn't affected by that. Even if you look at my identity as a social worker, right. I was trained as a social worker, a lot of the curriculum is based on white supremacist thoughts and ideas and racism. And it wasn't until last year that I found out that there is a whole curriculum around African centered social work. I've been a social worker for over 15 years and I never, ever outside of the Black NASW (The National Association of Black Social Workers), I never knew it was a social work curriculum around African centered and how to work with Black and African community.And so I started taking those courses and webinars during the pandemic to help myself unlearn the white supremacist culture and ideologies, that I was perpetuating, you know. The whole fact that white supremacy culture values, individualism, right? And then you make it and worry about everything else later. For Black community and Black queer communities, what's innate to us is to have a village behind us, but yet I was pushing back on this because it's like, I was conditioned and raised to you're an individual. We get on the young rappers, these young kids when they make it and they bring their village with them. Yes. It's some folks that you don't necessarily need to bring with you and that's a different story, but the fact that we get on known for bringing their community with them, that's something that's innate to them and they don't know it.You know? I was even talking about how we was taught to look at pouring liquor out as being something bad. Right. And it wasn't until I started really looking into our culture that we did this historically, we did this to our ancestors. We do that when we do libations right. I've even looked into fashion and, and death and how cultures around the world use fashion to symbolize death and how our young folks do that with t-shirts.Right? So the t-shirts is so much more powerful. And I, I talked about this on my Instagram and how a t-shirt is not just a t-shirt. It has a lot of social justice and a lot of racism behind the t-shirt. Because if you think about it, t-shirts were made out of cotton Black folks pick the cotton, what Black folks couldn't afford to have the whitest of the white.So when you could afford the whitest of the white, you know, it was valued. So you, you didn't go outside, you didn't get dirty. And those, you know, those was your Sunday's best. That was for you dressing up to put on this image that we're not poor, that we're not these feeble-minded people, that people, that don't look like us, that we were.So if you look at that today, think about how we get dressed up to go to work. Think about how we get dressed up to go in, in town. You know, all of those things, whether it be young folks or either of us know that we're doing it, it has historical roots and that's what we want to bring to Prevention Meets Fashion.And we really want folks to understand that fashion is not frivolous. It means a lot. And to look at it as such is doing it a disservice, you know us wanting nice things comes from a historical racist background, you know, we want it, our parents, our grandparents, our great, great grandparents wanted us to have nice things.Nice things meant something.I don't know if you've had a chance to visit the African-American history museum in DC. So there's the way they've got it set up. It's basically, you start out at the lowest/roughest points in Black American history. And then as you go up in the building, you know, we bounce back. So you're like traumatized at the start. Then they have this resting area it's really pretty where people break down, you know, there's water flowing where you can just relax and recover and then you continue on up and you get to where people are clearly developing their own culture, which is a blend of who we were before we were brought to the United States and who we became here.And there's this big section on fashion after the civil war, among Black Americans being so incredibly important as not just a status marker, but part of that desire to prove and validate your humanity through things that people can see as soon as they look at you. So part of that was definitely beautiful when you think about the intentions behind it, but then heartbreaking when you think about how many of us internalize that belief that we have to prove and validate our humanity instead of just letting white supremacy be a white supremacist problem. But it really explains why that's such a big part of Black American culture to be well-dressed and why we still give people the side eye when they come to church and holey jeans and flip flops, how that's like beyond most Black folks comprehension, but you see it all the time and white American churches, but they don't have to validate their humanity.So they don't have that same tradition of you need to try and wear your status markers.Last month on the 20th, we had our annual fashion condom show and our theme was Wearing Social Justice. And so we had the designers who are novice designers from the community. Everything that we do at Prevention Meets Fashion is community based and community led.And so we had these designers and we wanted to see their interpretations of wearing social justice. So folks picked to do condom designs as bell-bottoms condom designs as denim, as pocketbooks that resembled like the disco ball for music and the best in hair, because, you know, right now we're going through hair discrimination laws, and in Pennsylvania, they still haven't signed on to the Crown Act.And so it was amazing. What is that? I don't think I know about that.So the Crown Act is a bill that is trying to get passed in each state to ban hair discrimination among black folk. So the right to wear our own hair. So we have to get a law to have to be able to on hair and to be able to close this out that we created for creativity, for style or survival, we have to have a law to be able to do that.Wow. I mean, I knew that that was needed. I didn't think we were anywhere near that point. So I didn't even know because you see, I have my hair dreaded, but I live in a very black area and a lot of the stigma has fallen away. But I know when I first dreaded my hair, people still told me, oh, you won't ever be able to get a job with your hair dreaded.But I actually told HR I was doing it before I did it, which is ridiculous that I would have to, because it's such a natural style, but it was never an issue. But everyone around me kept saying it would be. And that wasn't because they were paranoid. That was based on real experiences they had.Yeah. And, and like what you said, like unpacking what you said about you having to go to HR to see if you could lock your hair. And I don't ever think I've heard of a conversation where someone that wasn't black had to go to HR and say, can I dye my hair blonde? We think about things like that.I remember when I first started coloring my hair, which I was well into my career. I've always wanted to color my hair, but that held me back because I needed a job. You know, I had kids I needed to provide for myself when I got to this point in my life where I just said F it, like, I want to color my hair.So I went to the extreme, the first thing I did was dye my hair blue, and then it went to green and then it went to blonde. I was affirmed at my job because it's an LGBTQ organization, but I don't think if I would've stayed in counseling, that would have been appropriate. Right. And I don't know if I would have been as happy because that's the way I express myself through my hair. I express myself through my clothes. So those jobs where I had to wear suits and shoes all day, I just couldn't do it.I really couldn't like I have no problem wearing a suit but I want to put on sneakers with it, you know, on a platform with it. Or I want to wear a military boot. I don't want to have to, to look at or to appear as people think women identifying folks shouldlook.Yes. Well, and that's a whole nother layer. I think with identity and clothing is if you don't identify in this super binary way that. It creates even more anxiety for you to be in work environments that are really rigid about how they want people to dress, because it's an important, maybe to some people it's not important at all. But to me, even the fact that I've really like plain clothes is a big part of my identity.It required some level of awarenesst about how much I detested dresses to get to this plain point that we're at right now. This was a process. So in your experience professionally, how much does the stress of having to dress in ways that don't suit you? How negative of an impact can that have on people?Well, it definitely could have a negative impact on your mental health. I mean, it does have an impact on your mental health, right? Because I think we throw around a term if you look good, you feel good a lot, but it's actually true. It's actually when you look good and feel good, it's actually science behind it and the endorphins and everything that's in your, that feel good in your body.It increases it. You know? I know that when, you know, my eyebrows are not done or my hair not done, I feel completely down and you can tell in my clothes because I dress that way as well. And then when I get my eyebrows done, I feel like everything is better.It definitely has a connection. And I've talked about it numerous times on our Instagram and in person. And so, so even like what you said, even the folks who get up and don't want to iron and just throw something on you're intentionally thinking whether you realize it or not, that's your aesthetic, you're intentionally doing that.That's what you like to wear, you know? So I, I really don't like when folks say, they can't dress. Some folks dress to what they think they should be dressing like or what someone told them, they look nice in and then they keep repeating it over and over. Instead of looking inside and figuring out what do I like, what do I look nice in and taking that component and then building upon it.So, what we want to teach people to do is what, first off, like what, what makes you feel good? Let's start there, right? Don't look in this magazine or social media or whatever you're looking at. And, and copy someone else's feel-good outfit because most of the time that's a stylist put that on that person.They might not even like what they, what they put on a stylist, put that on them. Right. So what makes you feel good? And let's build upon that. And this is your look. There is no one way to be or dress queer. And I think when we Google, how to dress queer, you get white, skinny folks, you know, you don't get, or if you do get a Black image is always us in this masc of center look right.You don't get that androgynous type person. And I consider my aesthetic very androgynous and athletic. You don't get that. I'm a chameleon, my clothes you will get anything from super sexy to super athletic wear. And I merge them somehow because that's me, you know, but it took me years to figure that out.It took me years to be comfortable with it.Tell me more about your journey to this point, because I know for a lot of people, fashion is so problematic because it's been linked to promoting only one body type as attractive. Promoting a lot of classism and a lot of fixation on really just keeping the fashion machine going.So we think about fast fashion and there was a time in US history where it would have been normal to get clothes from someone who made them in the community. And these would be clothes that would last you a very long time. They were probably cut to fit your particular body, the way you wanted it to fit.And you could wear it for years. Whereas now you see a lot of manipulation in the marketing to push people to say, this is what you should be wearing right now. And it just doesn't feel like a good place to a lot of people when it comes to self-expression. So what was your journey like with your relationship with fashion and when did you see the connection between your social work and the sexual health background that you have and what you're doing now?My connection to fashion began early on. My parents were military parents. And so when they got out the military and I was old enough to be able to look at things and, and see and understand their military background, we would look in these huge photo albums. And I would just like adore my mom and like her bell bottoms and her afro, I have finer hair, as you can see really loose wave, like type thing.My mom has really coarse hair. I always envy not being able to have an Afro, I've never had that type of hair, like, you know? And so and I joke my dad doesn't have hair anymore, but my mom, like, you have his side of the family hair.And so I'm like, okay. I grew up looking at these photo albums and looking at my mom and bell bottoms and, you know, clogs and artists other stuff. So I would like, I immediately gravitated towards all of that because of course I wanted to look like my mom. But slowly but surely my mom took this to the extreme and started putting me in girly, girly stuff.Like, you know, all the lace and everything was one color. And I rebelled. And so she started taking me to the store and like, what do you want? And I'm very close to my brother. And so I'm like, I want to look like my brother. And so I would pick out sweatpants and like a real big shirt and I had body self-conscious issues. I didn't realize until I got older, like why boys and men like, now I know that they were sexualizing me.So I didn't like that attention. I started putting on baggier clothes, but yet I would still put on a heel. So I would wear the baggy, this is the style you see now I did back in the nineties. Right. And so I didn't see that it's a Mary J came out and I literally broke down and cry because I was like, here's this woman who was like wearing baggy jeans, wearing baggy shirts. But people still liked her.I didn't even think of that as a turning point, but yeah. Now that you say it, that totally resonates. So, you know, it was first that Little Kim stage, that overly sexy stage. I went through that and my mom allowed me to, like, I credit my mom a lot for allowing me to, to develop who I am today. Overtime. I, again, I started coming into my fashion aesthetic, which obviously I went back to the athletic wear. But as I was developing, that was where I was leaning towards. And it was this point in my life where I know I started realizing that I was attracted to other genders other than the opposite gender.I didn't really act on it when I was younger. Because Me wearing the sweatpants and shirts. Like I remember the first time someone called me a dyke and I cried. So I stopped dressing like that and went overly sexy again.Right. Totally not me. And I was trying so hard.And that was even before you started noticing that you were also attracted to women. Oh, that's interesting.And so then, you know, it was my brother who was like, you know, stop this, you know, he's younger a year younger than me. He's like, stop this. You be you.Like, so what, like, if they call you a dyke, you be the best dyke. it doesn't even matter. Like you, you be, you, you don't, you don't change for no one else. You don't do you. You dress the way you want to dress. So then, you know, I started dialing down the bagginess and came to a happy medium.But over that time, I started realizing that I was using my fashion to come out. I was using my fashion to display my mood. Fashion would actually help my mood. I was really depressed when I was younger.I was a teen mom twice, but when I became a mom at 17, of course, that dialed back because now I had to put that money into my child. And I remember friends that went to high school with me was like oh, she fell off, you know, I knew it wasn't going to last, like, it was almost like they was waiting for it to like, I knew that wasn't going to dress this way anymore.You know, now she's a mom and I'm like, no, it's the opposite. I could still afford it, but is it worth it? You know, my priorities started to shift now it was on to my two children that I had to raise. Right. And so it wasn't that I fell off.I grew up. I think folks they grow up at their own. And so when I see folks spending all this money on stuff and making them happy,I'm like, do you, who cares what anyone else is saying? You want to spend $400 on a belt spend it, you know, but just make sure that your priorities, they're straight as well.As a social worker, how do you tell the difference between a maladaptive coping mechanism that is hurting the person and they probably actually need something else, something more sustainable and something that just, it doesn't hurt, you know, or it really is something that brings them joy? How do you recognize the difference in yourself even?I mean, well, of course I did self-assessment but for clients, I do a little assessment. Right. And I don't shame them. I remember it was this client who, and I just told this story, but I remember it was a client who just got diagnosed with HIV. I remembered this and she was a young mother, had three cute little boys and she was living in an abandoned minivan and she just wanted to keep buying her sons these Jordans.And of course Jordan's are a hundred dollars to, depending on the size of your feet, a piece. So she was spending close to $500 every couple of months or sneakers, but yet living in abandoned minivan. And so I didn't shame her for it, but when she came in, I, you know, I said, oh, those are really nice sneakers, but what would that look like if you had took just a hundred dollars a day and went to the sneaker store and let's say for some Nike, some $40 Nike's for each of your kids or target some light up sneakers.Cause they were little. What would that have looked like? And then save the rest for you to be able to get a hotel room. So you can have all your kids in one space or save up to get an apartment so that you can have running water and heat. What would that have looked like? So I challenged this client without shaming them to look at how they were spending their money.Yes. That made you feel good because you needed that you needed to feel good about your situation that you was in. So it made you feel good to be able to buy your kids, these sneakers, to be able to have your kids look like other kids, but in the interim, you were hurting yourself and you were hurting your kids because you really didn't have it.And so I take approaches like that with clients, especially when they use fashion as a coping tool. Fashion does not solve everything. You can put on a million dollars worth of clothes and still be sad and depressed or hate your body. We need to fix that. And then you can add those other layers on for some folks, you know, clothing protects them, but that protection is temporary.When you take that off, then what you just, you, you have to be satisfied with who you're looking at in a mirror. So it is definitely as much deeper, you know, and so through that we created our Affirming Fashion program, which is a program where we give clients clothing on emergency basis.So we don't have an income threshold or anything. If you need clothing, you need clothing, and if we have it, we're going to give it to you. We also do groups about affirming fashion and surveys to get the community feel on what affirms you. You know, we have a lot of gender non-conforming non-binary folks that follow us and it's affirming to them to have fashion that affirms their identity.And so we want to do that. We want to be this resource. So we, we definitely talk about how fashion is affirming, how fashion is self-care and how fashion is more than a look at Prevention Meets Fashion.I think affirming clothes can be really tough if you're still a kid and you don't get to make those decisions, or maybe you just don't have the money to dress yourself the way you want to. I've seen a couple of nonprofits helping with things like binders, but then I've also wondered for younger kids too how do you guide people on dressing in a way that affirms your gender that can't also hurt you? Because some people are so deeply uncomfortable and they're not in a position to get surgery now and they want to bind 24 hours a day.You know, does the nonprofit also deal with education around that piece? Sometimes you can't get a hundred percent there with what it's going to take for you to really be comfortable and be yourself, but in the meantime, you don't want to hurt yourself. Yes, we actually do, but we actually bring folks in to talk about that. I could read a million books on binding and what it's like, but part of being a community organization is getting those folks with that lived experience. So we absolutely bring folks in or connect folks to resources that they can then ask those questions to someone. I never want to speak on something that I haven't really experienced or feel that I don't know enough about.And binding is one of those things. Like I know that it can be affirming, but I also know from the medical side, how damaging it can be. Right. So I definitely connect folks to the needed resources that they need to get those questions, especially with younger kids, because they shouldn't be binding 24 hours a day.You know, I do know that it's a time limit depending on how old you are with how long you should be binding or even if it is appropriate to bind at that age, whatever age it is. As far as clothes go, I really haven't hit any younger parents really talk to me about that is mainly teenagers and up, but younger folks, I really haven't had anyone.And now that you brought it up, but watch I get a call I really haven't had any younger folks or parents talk to me about how they can dress their younger kids and affirm from them. For one, I commend a parent if they do reach out to me, because then that means that they are a step ahead of parents who absolutely will not be having it at all.Right. And so I definitely want to guide them in the right direction. As far as affirming fashion and, and wearing the clothes that affirms the youth, but also we got a small grant to hire community members to teach technical skills, such as sewing and crochet. The premise behind it was to also get LGBTQ folks and Black folks involved in stem and how STEAM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) can be a part of fashion, you know, taking that A and doing something with it, but also to give folks a starter for how you can make your own clothes, if you can't afford.Because that's beyond, as affirming clothes cost a lot, you know, androgynous type clothes or all those clothes. They cost a lot. Yeah. There was a time in the nineties when remember almost everybody still was sewing as a hobby and there were craft stores everywhere, and fabric was not expensive, but as fast fashion got cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, it became more expensive to make your own clothes. There were always clothes that you could of course shop in the men's section, which I used to do a lot before puberty, before these inconvenient curves got in the way that make men's wear implausible sometimes without altering. Altering is a really, really handy skill because if you thrift, then you could alter your clothes to make them more gender-affirming.And that's the premise behind the sewing. And so Daisy is our instructor who's coming on board and they use, she, and they pronouns.They are all about like teaching mending and how to up-cycle. And that's something that we want because let's say you get clothes from my Affirming Fashion program, or you go to another, like a trans clothing closet or a thrift store or whatever. And you want to make it your own. Now you have these soft skills to be able to make this outfit your own using other stuff that's in your house. So they talk about how you can take a t-shirt apart and use parts of it to make this how you can. If you have jeans that are really old how you can take the pockets off and make something else out of it, or make a pocketbook out of it, or a book bag or bag or whatever you want to call it.So using what you have to be able to lessen that financial barrier that's out there. Because right now, as you said, a few minutes ago, it's very performative. Every designer right now has a genderless fashion line right now, because again, they think that folks like you and I are trends and we're, we're not.It's heartbreaking to know that if you're someone who may be hasn't thought it through, or you're kind of new to the concept that like this always happens, you know, a smaller group of people has a need and the dominant culture refuses to fill it or address it. And the smaller group creates their own solution. And then everybody sees the sales and swoop in and put the smaller companies out of business.So I could see some people thinking, oh, this is great. Look at what Zara is doing all of the sudden and thinking, oh, this company supports me. They see me. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't like, I'm not trying to throw any shade at them in particular. But think of all the other companies who have to charge higher prices because they've got smaller production and maybe also they have ethical production, it just happens to cost more money.There are so many levels to the benefits and really thinking about, oh, what's a garment that's going to last once your sense of fashion kind of levels out. I mean, there are some people who just love to continually buy accessories, but I feel like as I've gotten older now that I know exactly what I feel best in, I don't really have any desire to keep adding things to my wardrobe.I pretty much wear things til the wheels fall off and then replace them with something that almost looks exactly the same.Well, you definitely I'm blanking on the term, but I think it is called a repetitive fashion and you're not the only one that does it. Like Simon Cowl does it. Right. White t-shirts basic pants. Right. You're not the only one that does that. And this is actually the psychology behind why folks do that, you know, it's cause people remember that. That's your brand, that's your look. So people think that they think that they're being not intentional, but they are being intentional, if that makes sense. And another thing about the pandemic, like over pandemic, I started posting about shopping your own closet, right? So a lot of times we have those staples in our closet. But because we keep adding stuff on top of stuff, they get buried, they get buried. So I've challenged people to go into their closet, take everything out and look at everything right.And put it into I wore it. I don't wear it, you know, needs to be donated type of piles. And I've even challenged myself to do it. Cause I'm one of those people that see something like, oh, I don't have this. And then I go in my closet and like, oh shoot. I do, you know, because I wasn't organized. And so I challenged myself to get organized and to look at what I had in my closet and just add staples that I didn't have instead of rebuying, rebuying and rebuying.And I donated a lot. I gave a lot as well. I am a fan of clothing swaps, but of course when COVID happened, a lot of folks, you know, weren't able to do that. A lot of folks. Especially with the information going out that COVID can live on your clothes. It couldn't, you know, people were really afraid to like swap clothes and stuff like that, but I'm a fan of it.Because you know, I can give someone something that I no longer wear and gets something that's essentially new. Cause that's what you're looking for. Right. That's the feeling that you're looking for, that you're getting something new that you're getting a package. And I know you asked earlier, how does that lead to sexual health?And that is one of the love languages, right to receive stuff. So I think that's why also gravitate towards fashion and, and stuff like that because that's something you can receive. And I noticed my love language I love to receive and I love to give right. So that's how it also relates to sexual health.But also we've been talking about how it relates to sexual health since we began this conversation since we're talking about identities and expression, and all of that is tied up with sexual health. Sexual health is not just about sex. It's about the mind, body and spirit it's about everything. And so when you look good, you feel good when you're comfortable in what you're in, you're able to express that and have that confidence with your partner or partners.You know, a lot of times people don't wear lingerie or don't wear, you know, cute underwear because they're not happy with their body. Right. And what would that look like to have a partner? That's been like, you know what? You, you look nice in those boxers. It doesn't have to be based on what you see on TV or any of it.You look good in those boxers. And just that one little thing could change someone's whole mood and feeling, you know, instead of them looking at what society projects as appealing or whether it's, you know, a male or female gaze, you know? I know I've had to personally check people because I don't like to see cutesy underwear.I don't like it. Give me a pair of boxers in a heartbeat. I will, I will wear boxers. Like I like boys shorts. I like boxers. I like full-coverage underwear. I don't have thongs. And, and again, as a, as someone who studies sexual health, that's not good for folks with vaginas anyway it can cause micro lesions, like it's just not sanitary.Oh. So underwear like that, that's not good for vaginal health could probably increase your risk for STI because you'll have more tiny cuts that you can't say. Now that's a bigger sham. That's a, I think of all the layers, because the part of the country where I was raised in sex ed in the school system was basically abstinence.And that was also kind of the story at home. So certainly didn't get any kind of sex ed that would be useful for same sex couples. And even when you go to a physician, even now in 2021, No one seems to know anything about STIs between women. No one seems to know, like there's just not enough research there, or maybe people aren't going to continuing ed classes.I don't know what's going on, but there are so many knowledge deficits that I feel we have. And then there's so many things that culturally cis women in particular have been trained to do that compromise your sexual health even further, like removing all of your pubic hair. That was another barrier that could help prevent STI and oh wow.And nobody tells you this stuff before you remove it. And what if you removed it permanently? Which a lot of people did when that becameWell people to today still don't care. I go in our, during our condo Fisher show, I did a condom party and I talked about. All things condoms. Cause we always do that for our condom party. And someone that was on the Zoom was like, well, I was showing them a dental dam and showing them how to use a dental dam. And they were like, well, the person I'm with need to remove their hair. And I said, why? You know? And they couldn't tell me why, because I just always thought they need to remove their hair before oral sex.Right. I'm like, no, do you remove your hair before you ask for oral sex? This was a male, someone with a penis and I'm like, do you remove your hair before you ask for, so why are you asking your partner, who they disclose was a cis female to remove their hair? If you're not removing your hair? When like, think of the double standards there.You know, and this is also what images you see. Right? You see you see these images of getting waxed then and everything for female-identified folks, but you never see melody, identify folks get waxed. And if you do, they put them in, they automatically put them into the gay category. They're get like, no, you know, waxing is not an identity.Right. You know, it's a choice, like either you wax or you don't, but that should be someone's choice. I've told people too, if that's something that you want to do wax or shave, use it as a partner activity, like use it as eroticism. Like you shave me, I'll shave you.Like, you know what I mean?Well, I had a question about that, so, and this may be completely bogus or outdated, but. Back in the day, they used to say don't shave don't floss the day before an encounter with a partner that you're not in a closed relationship with or who you've been tested with. Is there any truth to that? It is. It actually is. So again, when you're, when you get waxed or you shave, you want to at least give yourself 24 to 48 hours, because again, you don't know nicked yourself anywhere. You want to give the skin a chance to heal a little bit because you can get infections flossing, your gums, and brushing your teeth.Yes, we do say don't do that as a risk reduction, even though it's a low, a low risk when you're looking at the HIV scale. So it was high, medium, and low. It's a low. It's still a risk. And so, you know, you want to make sure that you're giving people all the information too, so that they can make an informed decision.And I think that's why I don't carry the line anymore, but I used to carry a line of flavored lubes and this particular company actually worked with a dental hygienist to come up with do, that was flavored. That was actually good for your teeth and gums and stuff, because people were worried about their breakfast stuff like this.So they actually came up with one that was really good for oral sex that, so that people wouldn't have to worry about the, the breath,Oh, after tasting like that after,So you ate something or whatever like that it was, it was, yeah. So I thought that was really cool. I, I don't carry them anymore because it upends them mimic.Like I just wasn't, you know, pushing products and I don't have a website anymore. So hopefully once I get my website up and running, I could be able to offer tools like that. Cause I don't think people know that there's options out there, like what it is. Actually. I love debunking myths and you know, a lot of myths come with truth.And if people just know the right thing, then you know, you're doing your due diligence,Yeah. I mean, it's really helpful to have all the information because to me, things that you do to groom your body and fashion, like it's all part of the same thing and everybody has their own aesthetic, but then you, sometimes you form these preferences without knowing what other things you might be sacrificing.So for you, if you can still grow your bush back, you might want it. Like, I don't know, once you weigh it all out, plus, you know, fashion goes in cycles. There was a time when everybody wanted to be totally bare and then people started doing more designs and then some people just want to go all the way back natural. It's interesting though. Once you think about all the different images we're exposed to about this is the ideal body ageism is definitely is a big issue because I don't know that I've ever seen gray body hair depicted anywhere. People get gray hair everywhere, but you just never see it. It seems like people usually don't discover that that doesn't click until they get their first gray body hair and they're like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't know this was going to happen.Or they shave or they dye it. You know, it's just like this, this scary thing to people that you're aging. And I never looked at it that way when I was little, I used to tell my grandma, I can't wait to get, you know, salt and pepper hair like you.And everybody's like, well, I would dye my hair and I'm like, no, like I love my grandma. I can't wait to look like my grandma. Right. But people try to hide things. And of course I had, I was so happy when I got like two strands and then I cut my hair and it went away and never grew back. So hopefully, hopefully as I age, I get my grandma's salt and pepper hair.I would love that, you know you know, also as remembering her, she passed away, three years ago in April. So yeah, I would love that, you know, I've always embraced my body hair, which I had a conversation with someone is really a touchy subject for me because I'm Muslim and you really can't have body hair.And so it's, so, you know, when I chose to have or keep my body here and my, and if my partners was Muslim, that was an issue. Right. Men and women, both can't have body hair. And so and so that was a huge issue for me in advocating, especially in the sexual health space, where you have advocates, like, yeah, keep your hair. And I'm like, you're not, again, you're not thinking culturally on how something. Cool because of religion.I literally never heard of that before. And I know so many Muslim people.Cleanliness and being clean cleanse for your partner, for your, so yeah, I definitely struggled with things, you know a lot. I get dinged every now and again on it, but yeah, but again, being in public health is like, is, is needed, right?I am a person with a vagina. I don't want infections. I don't want any bacteria. When I'm in the community, I'm walking more. So now you have sweat and, you know materials rubbing against, and that's a barrier. I don't want to shave it. You know, all these different things that you know, that we don't think about. Pubic hair does for us and shields us from.Right, right. That's a really good point. That's so, it's so interesting too. When you think about the things that are going to change in the body as you age, that people don't generally discuss, because they're so cagey about aging, it's it can be very handy for other reasons, too, just as all muscles begin to relax, you know, not everything is going to stay in the same position it was when you were a teenager. So just something else to think about.Where can people connect with your brand now? And when you have people come in doing the tutorials, you said you're not just bound to your state, are these something that people can sign up for online?Yeah. So right now where, you know, obviously I'm trying to raise money so that we can create a website and have a more.This have more of a reach for folks, but right now we're on Instagram, @preventionmeets fashion, and we have a link tree and all of our events all of our donation buttons, everything that we're doing is, is dumped into our link tree. Also you can find me on LinkedIn under my name, Nhakia T Outland MSW.I believe that's how it is on here. Fun fact, I had to change it because I started getting messages from young, white teenagers, like on, on LinkedIn and come to find out, we laughed about it. I met the young man, but he had the same initials as me, cause mines used to be N T Outland and he had the same initials.So all his friends were like DMing me and stuff. So it was really cool. We all got to meet. So now is NT Outland MSW. But yes, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find my business on Instagram @preventionmeetsfashion.And we look forward to connecting with folks and following us and being in community. I love being around people.Thank you so much. If there was one thing that you could share with everyone and they would instantly understand it, internalize it and carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you want to tell people? What would you want people to know?I think what I will want people to know is something I say all the time and that's, be yourself. There's nothing wrong with being yourself. Society tells us so much that we need to be and act like someone else, but what would it look like if we all just were ourselves? I say that all the time, you know, just be yourself. Personally with me, I always say, I am me and people be like, oh, that's problematic.It's not because I am me. I bring me everywhere. I bring me to corporate meetings. I bring me to community meetings. I bring me to parent teacher meetings. I bring me to the bar. You're getting Nhakia. Like you don't get a different version. You're getting me. And that's easiest for me because I don't have to worry about code-switching or remembering what I said or didn't say here or whatever like that. The only thing you might get as you heard on this call is you might get a different outfit. That's about it. You might get a different hair color or a different look. But other than that I'm just me.I love that. Oh, that's beautiful.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence.  This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

Malori (they/she) is a Black, queer, and non-binary person currently in pursuit of their doctorate in acupuncture and Chinese medicine. In today's episode, Malori discusses her experiences as a Person of the Global Majority in an Americanized institution of learning these wellness and healing practices. This conversation encompasses self advocacy, challenging the cishet and whitewashed systems in place, and listeners can learn a little bit about acupuncture and Chinese medicine as well.Content Warning: a brief mention of experiences with sexual assault toward the end of the episode. Find Malori on Instagram.

Can oil massage alleviate racing thoughts? Can adding coriander to your food cool you down? And how can we engage with wellness practices with integrity? In this episode, Laura chats with Jyoti Chadda, founder of My Wellness Company and host of the Decolonizing Wellness podcast about the complex system of Ayurveda, the doshas, her journey back to her roots, and the 3 Rs of decolonizing wellness. Learn more about Jyoti's offerings on her website, follow her on Instagram, and listen to her podcast.Follow Calm The Hell Down on Instagram: @calmthehelldowncoSign up for our weekly newsletter where we share what's calming us down. Think puppy GIFs, great new songs, interesting articles, pottery videos, and calming products: https://www.calmthehelldown.co/newsletter On a different note, need digital marketing support? Check out Laura's website or email her at laurasmaurer@gmail.com.

Angela Ocampo is an intuitive guide, Curandera in training, ancestral wisdom keeper, healer, writer, and old soul. She is devoted to activating, facilitating, and opening portals for others to remember the truths and medicine that lie within us. Through intuitive channeling, energy work, ritual, ancestral healing, Earth medicine, shadow love, and embodiment, Angela works to help others explore and reclaim the forgotten divine parts of the self, including peace, mysticism, ancestral gifts, power, light, and liberation. This episode we exploreSitting with the truth of combined colonized and colonizer ancestryUsing ancestral remembrance to unearth the ancient wisdom that lies within you Using embodied grounding tools Connecting to the body as a source of power Episode Resourceshttps://www.instagram.com/iamangelajo/https://www.subscribepage.com/ancestralconnectionDecolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationBali Retreat March 19-25 2023I was raised in a super conservative, slightly fundamentalist Christian situation and over the last five years or so, it has brought me so much joy to pursue traditional spiritual practices that are more connected to my ancestry and that aren't directly connected to colonization and the transatlantic slave trade that said there's a lot of resistance in my part of the world anyway, to ancestor veneration or ancestor worship or ancestor remembrance practices. I have found that while ancestor veneration exists all over the world, people's understanding of it really varies from culture to culture and from person to person, quite frankly, whether or not people actually believe their ancestors can hear them and are directly responding to them, whether people see their ancestors as intermediaries between people who are living and actual deities, or whether people think it's just something that you do that is deeply embedded in the culture and that it is good for you psychologically to remember the people that came before you, but no one can actually hear you. So it certainly varies, but I personally I've gotten so much comfort and joy from exploring ancestor veneration that I'm thrilled to have Angela Ocampo with us today who's going to introduce us to ancestor remembrance practices. Angela is coming to us from an indigenous Colombian perspective. And she is going to share with us, her understanding ofancestor remembrancee practices. The value that it’s had in her life and the healing potential that it has. Angela is an intuitive and uses embodiment work and dancing to reconnect people to their own intuition and to their own truth. A lot of times when you feel like you don't know which way to go in life and what's up and what's down. The truth is you do know, but you no longer are feeling confident in acknowledging what you know intuitively and you're seeking ways to validate or prove your opinions rather than just feeling them and going with them. So one of Angela's gifts is helping people get around that feeling of stuckness. So this is an excellent episode. Near the latter portion of the episode, Angela even shares a short meditation with us. So when you get to that section, you're going to want to make sure you're not driving. And that you're in a position where it's going to be safe to get a little relaxed and comfortable. And even though the meditation is brief, don't worry Angela's website is up now and you can visit https://www.angelaocampo.com/ and get a longer version of that meditation. I also have a pretty exciting announcement. I will be hosting my first ever in-person retreat in Bali next March. So that'll be spring break for a lot of people. So hopefully you have that time off and you'll be able to join us as well. There are a lot of exciting excursions planned its going to be focused on teaching you to relax your nervous system and to recover more quickly from any of the stressors you might encounter at home or at work. And for you to really develop recovery practices so that while you're feeling totally relapsed, Totally calm, totally at home in your body, on the trip. You don't have to worry that when you go back home when you fight your way through the airport, you'll completely lose all of that peace. No, you'll be going home with recovery practices. So you can keep returning to that sense of calm so that your nervous system. can stay in the zone that it's meant to be in. We're not meant to constantly be keyed up, stressed out, clenching your teeth, waiting for the other shoe to drop. So it's going to be a wonderful week. It is very far away if you live on the east coast of the us, but I know it's going to be so beautiful and so refreshing. There'll be more details to come. But if you are super excited about the idea of actually hanging out in a wellness space, that's centered on people of color and queer folks and you want to go ahead and check it out and put your deposit in, just visit https://www.daliakinsey.com/retreat, and you'll see the details there. Al right. Let's get on into today's episode. Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence.  This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: Hi, Angela. Thank you so much for coming on.Angela: Hi, thank you so much for having me.Dalia: When I got your email, I signed up for it and listened to the meditation for connecting to your ancestors. I immediately thought people needed to know about this and needed to hear about the work that you're doing.Dalia: Let's start with, what are your marginalized identities and what does connecting to your ancestors mean for you?Angela: Yeah. So I am, a cisgender woman. I'm heterosexual as well. I come from Columbia, I'm a woman of color. I also have indigenous ancestry. So for me, it has been kind of like a rediscovery journey to meet with my ancestors and connect with them. Because my indigenous ancestry was colonized, a lot of their culture was taken away from them.Angela: And so a lot of the things weren't passed down to, to my family, to my lineage. So I think there was always a disconnect for me where I felt called, you know, to be on the earth and be outside. But I, I just didn't know why. And maybe like a little bit of stories from my family was passed down, but I, I just always felt called.Angela: So when I found ancestral work, I just felt into my body. This is what I need. As, as someone who, you know, was on a spiritual journey anyway, I was always somewhat of a seeker I always wanna find out the truth and just go deep.Angela: So ancestral healing has, has been able to connect me again with like my roots and where I come from. And it creates this sense of belonging. And it creates a sense of just peace in a way, because you are You are discovering who, who you really are, what is your blood?Angela: And you're creating these pathways of remembrance. And that will not only help you, but it's gonna help the generations that come after you.Dalia: Now that's fascinating because almost all of us are descendants of people who were colonized. When you look at how much of the planet was colonized it is mind boggling.Dalia: As their children, we are both descendants of the colonized and the colonizer.Dalia: Did you feel any sort of conflict around that when you connect to your ancestors, do you feel like you belong to them, but you don't feel called to connect to colonizer ancestors?Angela: Yeah. That is a duality that I have been facing. Right. It's it's a confronting duality. And I think I pushed it away for so long. I only wanted to see, yeah, yeah I have indigenous blood, but then that was like the other side, like I needed to face it because that is part of me.Angela: And so I do feel like before I felt more resistance to it and I feel that for, for some reason I have a really strong connection to my indigenous ancestry more it's probably because the stories that I know are mostly from that side of the family. And I feel that the more that I connect with that side I'm opening up the pathway of connecting to that other side, who is the colonizer.Angela: And I feel there's a sense of kind of like reclamation. And I do feel It's kind of confronting because the colonizer had, you know, they didn't have great intentions, you know, there was violence and there was just a lot of harmful things to, to our colonized ancestors.Angela: So I think approaching it in a way where it's it's intentionally saying to, to the energies, like, I wanna connect with the ancestors who have divine intentions and that in a way already sets like the boundaries and knowing that, you know, when people cross over, they. They tend to, you know, like it's, it's a clearing, right?Angela: That they have like kind of like the karma falls down and, and they, they could become pure, but at the same time, some people don't like some, some, some souls, you know, get stuck or so I feel that it's important, even when. When I do get to that point about my social remembrance journey to connect with the colonizer side, to know that I have protection over my own energy.Angela: I have protection of what I live in and I can choose to connect to the good side of them because I like to believe that there was some good in them regardless, and, you know, they did horrible things, but they're still part of me. So I have to like come to terms with that as well.Dalia: I like that framing and that you can set a boundary for what type of energy you want to draw in and which ancestors you want to hear from.Angela: I think that that's helpful to know too, because I think ancestral healing is sometimes it, it can be scary for people because of the fact that a lot of us have ancestors who weren't, you know, the most pure people on the earth, right? Like they, they probably did a lot of harmful things and and so it can, it can bring up a lot.Angela: And that's why I'm also a huge advocate while doing ancestral healing work to have some sort of tools that ground you and that will help, you know, clear any energy that is moving through you because a lot of it can be confronting, especially if you're just new to it. And so that's like, tools basically like dancing I love dancing and it connects me to my ancestors as well.Angela: And so anything that, that allows you to release anything that may come up. I believe our bodies hold so much wisdom and our bodies have our ancestors' blood. So I really love working with the body to, to come to a neutralized point of when you're doing that ancestral work, cuz a lot can come up for sure.Dalia: Would you say that the greatest tool that you have for connecting to your ancestors is your own body?Angela: I actually, I do believe that because I like to believe that I'm very in tune with my body and I think everyone can get there. I think society kind of programs us into thinking like, oh, we're so disconnected or our intuition is, is wrong.Angela: But really like, as, as if you're being, when you came to this earth, like you. As a baby, like you, you knew what your body needed and that's why you like cried and you were hungry. Ever since we come out out of the womb, like we are very in tune with our bodies and it's just that programming and conditioning that disconnects us.Angela: The oppressor wants us to be disconnected from our bodies because that is how we lose our power. So I believe getting into our bodies and using it as a tool for ancestor work is a way that we take our power back. And I feel that also meditation, like going through deep meditations allows me to use my body to kind of just like spark that, that like connection.Angela: Like I mentioned, it brings, it has so much wisdom sometimes. I like I'm in, I'm in nature or like, I listen to a song and like, I feel it, and my body, like this deep, like a tingling sensation. It's, it's not something that my mind can really like give a meaning to, but it's like my body knows first.Angela: Right. I feel too that because our soul is, is connected to our body. It it's like holding our body. The body is one of the, the greatest allies, because it speaks directly. Like it doesn't allow the mind, the mind that allows, that sometimes tells us that we're overthinking it, or, you know, it puts like doubts in our head.Angela: I think the body comes from a place of pureness.Dalia: Hmm. I love that framing because my first thought was, well, how do you know that you can connect to your ancestors? So my first reaction was how do we process this intellectually? How do we know that we can even do this? And that ancestral work is something that we can all access. Because when you don't have access to a lot of the traditions that your ancestors practiced.Dalia: I know, sometimes you feel anxiety around, like, am I doing this correctly? Can I recreate traditions that are lost? But what is your take on that? I would imagine that if the body is the guide, then there are many ways, even if you don't have any way to know the exact traditions that were used, that there are many ways to tap into this power.Angela: Correct. Yeah. I, I believe our intuition is our biggest guide. And the body, like the body, what it feels the sensations. So for anyone that doesn't have access to, you know, who your ancestors were, I say, the first thing is like, what do you feel inclined to? That is the first thing that you wanna attempt into. A lot of us have, we love things that don't have.Angela: Maybe we just don't realize like why we love what that certain thing, but we just do. So like tapping into that because we we hold so much wisdom that we might not be conscious of, but sometimes we're just drawn to things. So I would say for those people that don't have accesses to really lean into what you're drawn to, what calls your attention and really experiment, right?Angela: If, if you know, for example, if you know, you, you have ancestry from Africa, start listening to some African music. What are you called to, there's just so much music that you, that you can tap into and there's different kinds. So like start tapping into that. Maybe seek out some recipes and start seeing like what you really love, what you don't really like.Angela: And, and maybe like seeing maybe if you really love a dish or a certain song, like start researching the roots, where does it come from? Who are the artists that created it? So I think we can really use our intuition to see what we're naturally drawn to, because again, our ancestors are in our blood they're even if we're not conscious of it, they're guiding us and they're speaking through us.Angela: Even if it seems like we're, we're not, we're not in communication with them. They're always trying to, to tap in. So that's what I would recommend to start like diving in for sure.Dalia: I love that- so approachable. When you say the ancestors always speaking through us and guiding us, does that communication go in both directions?Dalia: Do you think it matters how you live your life as far as resolving previous hurts that maybe your ancestors weren't able to resolve in their lifetime?Angela: Yeah. So yes, I think it is, it is both ways. I actually believe in calling them in intentionally and that is how I started on my journey I did a meditation that kind of like opened up the portal for me.Angela: And from there, I just started to call them in and speak to them, pray to them. It's like another relationship, it has to be nourished. It takes some work to, to, to let them in, like you have free will as a human. So they're not going to just be like, Hey, you know, and barge in on you.Angela: You have to open up that door and you have to open up the lines of communication. If you wanna have consciously a relationship with them. And so in terms of like healing, the wounding, I think it's, it's gonna be definitely a journey and it's not gonna happen overnight.Angela: I think it's, it's something that if you feel called to ancestral work, this is definitely like you were chosen by your ancestors because they're. There are things and, and resources that they didn't have in order to heal. And now, as a, as a generation that has a ton of resources, you know, we have resources to therapy to just reeducation.Angela: I feel Google is just a resource on its own. We're also coming into this time of, of awakening just as a society, as a collective and as a wanting to also liberation, especially for BIPOC people. And so I think. That's why so many people have been wanting to connect with the ancestors because they know that they will give them the strength and the wisdom and the guidance that they need to heal those woundings that have permeated so much of their familial lineage. I think that's why we crave that connection, because again, it gives us a sense of belonging. It gives us a sense of strength and a wisdom that, that maybe, you know, if, if you're just starting your spiritual journey or like your reclamation journey maybe you haven't found it anywhere else.Angela: And I feel like ancestors give you just. Very grounded and, you know, they come from the earth, right? So they give you a very grounded wisdom and strength. And so I really believe yeah, that, that they support you on healing, that those booming, and we can definitely call them in and call their energy in it simply starts by opening yourself up to that, to that relationship.Dalia: Have you learned any of the names of your ancestors? Did you do a combination of trying to call them in and accessing information you could find about them?Angela: Yeah, so I actually have a spirit guide. Spirit guides for me are just a team of souls of spiritual souls that, that protect me and support me.Angela: And so we all have this, we all have a team. And so sometimes we have ancestors who are also our spirit guides. So I have one her name is Esmeralda and she is my ancestor from a very long time ago. So from the indigenous lineage and I met her through going through a meditation and wanting to meet other people in my spirit team.Angela: I had already met a few of them, but I knew I had a feeling that there was an, a sister there and I really wanted to tap into her energy. So, so that's how I met her. And other than that I've been doing also research. I actually just found out where my grandma from my mom's side was born was the land that she was born on.Angela: And she's the one that carries that, that indigenous blood. And so I was doing some research on the plants or just like anything, anything that I could find to connect me. So I'm actively trying to find more names. Sometimes I do get like, when I'm doing deep meditations or just like breathwork, breathwork is really great too in taking you really deep.Angela: Sometimes I don't even go intentionally trying to meet with my ancestors. They just find a way to, to enter because I have this open portal for them and they're welcome to come into my energy. So, so I have encounters with them like that.Angela: And I've, I've been able to get some, I can't remember now the exact name, but I, they do have very tribal indigenous names. And so it's been really healing and just also very empowering and, and beautiful to, to have those experiences with them and, and kind of like see a part of myself reflected in them.Dalia: So that brings up a couple of questions for me. I had wondered how do you get into that deeper meditative state? When you say breath work, what does that mean?Angela: Yeah, so breathwork is is just, it's another modality. There are breathwork practitioners. So it's it's I do it like that. Breathwork where you're taking three breaths. So you take the first breath taking an air from your belly, then your chest, and out through your mouth. And it takes you into a very meditative state.Angela: You just kind of get out of your head. And so these processes are usually around 30 to an hour. And so. There are breathwork tracks online that you can try. I found some on YouTube and I also have friends who are breathwork practitioners who, who use this service as a healing modality. So I recommend that because it's really powerful and using our breath to really get into our bodies and get out of our heads. And it's also a very healing modality for also any trauma that you have experienced. So I really I'm a fan of breath work and in terms of another modality that I really love any deep meditation. I find them on YouTube.Angela: For people that are maybe just starting out, maybe a guided meditation would be the best way to just, you know, maybe not, not one with a lot of words or just something to get you in the deep like relaxed state. And I think before you go to bed is like one of the best things, maybe like creating like a little nighttime routine. Yeah, maybe sitting at the edge of your bed before going to sleep. I think the nighttime is like a really good time to, to take advantage of just like your body is already getting into a meditative state because sleep is a meditative state.Angela: And even saying like a prayer. Call in your ancestors before you go to sleep and invite them into your dreams. Cause they can come into your dreams and kind of just do the work for you. You don't really have to do a meditation. Those are three ways that I would recommend to, to go into a deep meditative state.Dalia: When you're looking online for meditations how can you tell the difference between one that will take you deeper and maybe something that's more superficial, or what is the opposite of a deep meditation?Angela: Yeah, I personally don't like the ones that are short, the ones that are just like five to 10 min 10 minutes, because I feel like I need more time to, to really dive in.Angela: So the, the longer ones that have they usually have the music like singing bowls . So I think those, so I would look for ones that are around.Angela: I would say at least 25 minutes. Because that really allows you to give your mind time, to really soak, soak it and, and, and sit into that meditation. And so that's what I look for. And I look for ones that. I don't have so much of words, so many. I, I like to kind of go on my own and I like to create my own imagery in my head.Angela: But if people do like the guided ones, if that works better for you, then, then that's something that you can do. Just anything that maybe takes you into a relaxed day that creates some peace would be helpful.Dalia: Can you describe your concept of the afterlife? when you are calling the ancestors, what do you imagine they're doing? Are they not going to move on to some other place or some other thing? Where are they?Angela: Yeah. So that's a really great question. So I think when people move on into the afterlife, they become an infinite kind of energy. So they can really be everywhere at once. So I believe that they, they come into the energy that when they are invited into the energy. Once I really started to, okay, I'm going through a spiritual awakening and I'm really gonna dedicate myself to it.Angela: And once I made that decision, that's when. All the ancestral healing just like, started to, like, I started seeing it's just coming everywhere. And so it was signs, right? I think as soon as I opened myself up to they started to enter my energy space.Angela: When I call them in, because I know that they can be everywhere at once. They're just kind of like there, but when they, when I call on them I can feel them. Because I am so tuned into that. That's how I view what happens to a soul after and afterlife.Angela: It's about that opening being open to, to know that their energy is infinite. Hmm.Dalia: Now the people that are around you or the spirits that are around you that are a team that guide you, are they all blood relatives or can you have no children while you're here and end up as an ancestor.Angela: For me, it's it's mostly my family, but I, I tend to connect mostly with my. The ancestors that lived a very long time ago. So the indigenous ancestors I can connect with with the people that let's say my grandma from one generation ago, but I, I feel that. The I'm for some reason, I feel very connected to the indigenous part and that's probably cuz something in me wants to be activated through that.Angela: My work usually involves the family, like the, the blood relatives, but I have heard other. Other people that do ancestral work and ancestral remembrance that also consider the people that steward their land like ancestors or just people that were close to the family. So it doesn't necessarily have to be blood relatives.Angela: I do know other people that are considered ancestors that are exactly related to blood. So I think it's really anyone that you, that you, that you or your family, or just anything that, that was surrounding that you felt very connected to. I think a big thing is also like the ancestors of the land.Angela: I would definitely consider, you know, the people that steward the land that I stand on as ancestors, because they took care of our land and they, we have this place to live because of them.Angela: And so I think it's like an emotional connection there. I think ancestors don't have to be necessarily blood it just needs to have a connection. Like what connection do you have there with them?Dalia: You mentioned that you do readings for people. Can you describe your gifts to us more and how you use them to help other people and to guide you in how you live your life?Angela: Yeah, so I connect with the energies around you. So I can connect to your spirit guides. I can connect to your ancestor lineage or through mediumship or an a past ancestor. I can also connect to your highest self, your soul. I use this as a way to kind of gain clarity for people so people come to me when they're not sure, they're kind of like a little bit in their heads and, and they feel kind of disconnected, they're not sure if they're the right path or how to really embody more of their soul.Angela: I use my gifts to tap into their spiritual team and to give them the guidance right from a pure place, from a place that knows them all and, and supports them in everything. A lot of the time the, the spirits are funny because, or just like the spiritual realm, because they tend to like lead you back to yourself.Angela: It's kind of like, you know the answer and you have the answers inside of you, but they do try to, you know, give you the, the clarity and the direction that you need to find a way. So I feel like the, that journey, they always seem to have this saying where it's kind of like you are right here right now for purpose and this obstacle, this challenge that you're going through right now it's taking you to where you need to go. It's kind of like the journey is needed here so you can get to your highest self , to your true self and to your most pure self, to your most whole self.Angela: So that is what I do in my readings. I go with the intention of the client, what they need if they're going through a transition or if they really wanna reconnect with, you know, their lineage. So we go in there and we get as much information as we can to really give them that clarity and also the comfort in knowing that they are supported.Angela: And they're actually a pure being that has so much guidance available to them.Dalia: That sounds incredible. I know today you came prepared to offer us a little entry point into a meditation or having an ancestral remembrance practice. Can you introduce us to that?Angela: Yes. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Okay. So. Let's dive right in.Angela: So if you can I invite you to close your eyes. If you can't close your eyes, just simply focus on a certain spot around you. And I want you to invite you to go ahead and take three deep breaths.Angela: And when you exhale, I want you to make a sigh or make an audible sound.Angela: Alright now, I'm gonna invite you to go ahead and just move your body the way that it wants to just give yourself a little wiggle. Maybe you have some tight spots. Maybe you've just been sitting after a long day. Just give yourself some movement so we can really get into the body and allow spirit to move through us.Angela: When you're ready, I want you to go ahead and just place your hands, wherever it feels right. So maybe, maybe on your heart, maybe on your stomach, maybe on your legs, whatever makes you feel most comfortable. And I want you to go ahead and imagine a white light coming in from the crown of your head all the way down to your toes.Angela: So you're gonna imagine it slowly cleansing your entire body. So going through your throat, going through your heart, through your stomach, through your legs, and exiting out through your toes.Angela: And from here, I want you to imagine a yellow golden light right in the middle of your eyebrows. And this is where your third eye lies, this is where your intuition lies, and you're gonna notice this light just permeating your entire forehead, then you're gonna see it extend out into your body. And now to the surroundings, and you are gonna see it extend out as far as you can imagine out into the earth.Angela: And as you see it connect to the earth, you're going to thank the earth just internally for her healing presence for supporting you and supporting your lineage and activating this connection that we're about to embark on.Angela: And now that the earth has reflected this beautiful energy back into your aura. You're gonna see this light coming back into your surroundings, coming back into your body, coming back into your aura, and coming back into your third eye.Angela: And now I'm gonna invite you to do a prayer, to call in your ancestors. So you can repeat this prayer internally or externally. Do whatever feels right. Whatever feels right is perfect. So we're gonna go ahead and say, I invite in my ancestors right now. I call in their presence. I call in their guidance. I call in their strength.Angela: I call in their wisdom.Angela: I invite the ancestors with divine intention to make contact with me in the way that they know they can. I open up myself to receive their wisdom and their guidance and any moment that is available to me.Angela: I trust that I am supported and guided by my ancestors, who long to make connection with me. And I open myself up to receive their magic.Angela: And just let that permeate every inch of your being.Angela: And now I invite you to simply say, thank you. Thank you for this moment. Thank you to your ancestors for bringing you here. In this moment for giving you what you have for giving you the wisdom and the strength to make it to where you are today.Angela: And now from here, you can trust that this relationship with your ancestors is officially opened. As you have opened up your heart to them and to receive their guidance.Angela: Alright. So we're gonna just go ahead and quickly close by taking another, just three deep breaths. And remember to just make a sound to just let out any energy that might have moved through when you exhale.Angela: Alright. When you're ready, just go ahead and open your eyes and come back into the space.Dalia: Thank you so much for that.Angela: You're welcome.Dalia: You mentioned you're welcomed that dancing could be a way to ground yourself. Can you give us a couple of other things that can ground you?Angela: Yes. So I do have some tools in my toolbox, so I really love just simply breathing. Like we just did the breathing, filling up your belly and bringing it up to your chest and, and exhaling with a sound has been so grounding for me, especially because I noticed that throughout the day my breath is very shallow.Angela: And so really taking the moment to just let the breath fill my body up with life is one, one beautiful way to ground yourself. And especially if you find yourself in triggering moments breath bringing your attention back into the breath is, is really grounding. Another thing for me, I, I also recommend music, music, especially something that, that is tied to your ancestral lineage.Angela: So anything that, that kind of just reminds you of home is, is something that I love to. To just, you know, put everything away and just kind of like sit in my bed and listen to music. I feel so grounded in that as well as nature. Nature is a natural resource. If you don't live in the city, you can just go outside and just be like on the grass. Taking off your shoes and putting your your feet on the earth is, is incredibly healing because you're taking in that the Earth's frequency. So those are like my few favorite ways. I also obviously like meditation as well, and just sitting in silence and noticing, you know, I think people have the misconception that meditation is about clearing your mind. I really just like to, to use it as a way for self self-awareness when I'm just doing meditations by myself. because it just allows me to drop in. Okay. Like what's in my head right now.Angela: How can I bring myself back to center? And it just kind of creates this again, this relationship with myself. So those are like a few of my tools to get grounded.Dalia: that is so helpful. Where can people find you if they'd like to learn more or wanna know how to work with you? Yeah, so I hang out a lot on Instagram.Angela: My Instagram handle is @iamangelajo. It stands for my middle name. And then I am working on my website. I don't ha I don't have website currently, but on Instagram you can find any links and, and you can find out how to work me, work with me there.Dalia: Perfect. Thank you so much. Angela: Thank you so much for having me.I hope you enjoyed that and that you will take out the time to connect with Angela's work. If you are still on Instagram, check her out there, or you can just jump on her mailing list, visit her site and grab that meditation. I loved the invitation to the ancestors to connect and that she included that prayer for us really resonated to me and felt really helpful. You would think when it comes to spiritual things, we wouldn't be worried about doing things the right way all the time or thinking that things need to be prescribed. But a lot of the religious traditions that we have grown up with are very prescribed and they don't feel accessible. And there was generally another person there to tell you precisely how things should go or someone who serves as an intermediary. So it is a little bit of a reach sometimes when you start exploring spiritual practices that are more independent. And that actually allow you more freedom. Sometimes you get freedom at you don't know exactly what to do with it. So I really appreciate that she modeled that for us. And that she offered such a simple entry point to starting to explore ancestor remembrance practices. If that's something we feel called to do. Remember if you haven't already picked up your copy of Decolonizing Wellness it is now available all over the place. The book is full of helpful exercises that you can do to feel more present in your body to feel more connected to your intuition and to your whole self, instead of just little parts of ourselves that have been deemed worthy or acceptable by the world around us. If you are listening to this episode on a podcast player, and you're not listening to on Substack. I highly encourage you to follow the show on https://daliakinsey.substack.com/ because, in addition to getting this episode every month, there is a blog post on the 15th of every month. And for people who are supporting members of the show, there's also a bonus. As always, thank you so much for being here. I'll see you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

Philip spends time Dalia Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness. In their conversation, they dissect the challenges and limitations of the wellness industry for people of color and the LGBTQA+ community. They look at the historical roots of our cascading health crisis and how it intersects with racism and capitalism. The Drop – The segment of the show where Philip and his guest share tasty morsels of intellectual goodness and creative musings. Philip's Drop: Watership Down (novel) – Richard Adams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watership_Down) Watership Down (original animated movie via HBO Max) (https://www.hbomax.com/feature/urn:hbo:feature:GXmlSugJS354_wwEAADDV) Dalia's Drop: Persimmon Takes on Humanity – Christopher Locke (https://www.amazon.com/Persimmon-Takes-Humanity-Enlightenment-Adventures/dp/0990419703/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1656466096&sr=8-1) Special Guest: Dalia Kinsey.

Shayla Raine is a Cree author from Maskwacis, Alberta. Her book, The Way Creator Sees You, is about a Plains Cree boy who struggles to accept his Indigenous features after facing adversity at school.  In this conversation, Shayla shares her experiences growing up, and her journey into writing and publishing The Way Creator Sees You. Her book has been highlighted by Indiginews, the Toronto Star, APTN News and CBC. Aaron Pete asks about her childhood, experiences in the Canadian military, the journey of writing her first book, and the documentary series she is working on that releases in 2022. Shayla Raine used writing as a creative outlet growing up, and now uses writing as a form of healing. Shayla self-published “The Way Creator Sees You” on Amazon in January 2022. The poem was a creative side-project Shayla did while editing her manuscript, Mimikwas. Shayla is currently finishing the editing stage of her fiction novel which is about a Cree girl that uses physical activity as a form of healing from trauma. Shayla is currently working on a documentary called Decolonizing Wellness with her partner, Ryan Oliverius. The docuseries can be watched on Telus Optik near the end of July 2022. Buy her Book: https://www.amazon.ca/Way-Creator-Sees-You/dp/B09PW14BW9 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7jl39CsCYhImbLevAF6aTe?si=dc4479f225ff440b  Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/bigger-than-me-podcast/id1517645921  Listen on Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5idXp6c3Byb3V0LmNvbS8xMDc3MjYyLnJzcw?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA8JKF2tT0AhUPmp4KHR2rAPkQ9sEGegQIARAC Chapters: 0:00:00 Personal Background 0:28:52 Making Comic Books 0:39:28 Entering the Canadian Military 0:53:53 Reaching Your Full Potential 1:59:36 Mimikwas (Upcoming Book) 2:03:12 Upcoming Indigenous Documentary

Episode 72. I've said it before and I will say it again, I am often profoundly changed by the impact of the conversations I have on this podcast. I still remember quotes and concepts from people I interviewed a year ago, and I still sometimes re-listen to the conversations to remind myself of the lessons I learned from them. This conversation with Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, was extra special though. And I'm actually having a hard time putting into words why exactly that is. I think part of it is Dalia's presence, and the generosity and vulnerability that is shared, including the process from behind the scenes of this week's. Beyond that, however, Dalia's compassion for others, myself included, who have very much missed the mark with wellness, health, and lack of diversity in related fields, made this conversation all the more meaningful. Inviting Dalia on the podcast was important to me because I truly believe that moving towards true wellness and health means we must un-learn a lot of what we have been taught. Not only about what is healthy from a weight-centric model, but so much of what we have been taught about race, sexuality, and generally how so many of our systems, educational models, and structures are set up to serve white people, not persons of marginalized backgrounds. I'll admit: I have total imposter syndrome when I talk about or write about topics related to diversity. I'm afraid I'll mess things up, like say the wrong things or offending someone (my deepest fear). But I know deep down it's a privilege to be able to choose to learn about and talk about these topics or not, and I am working on continuing to choose the (typically mild) discomfort, so I can continue to learn and grow. I hope you will listen in on this conversation and hear the incredible gift that Dalia has given to the world by sharing this book with the world. I truly believe what I said, that I think this book truly benefits anyone who wants to learn about wellness and inclusion as an individual or as a healthcare provider. I hope wherever you are in your journey of learning about diversity and where we in the US and other countries have greatly missed the mark, that you will remain open, curious, and humble and continue to be open to learning more. And remember that (as I often have to remind myself) you don't need to know it all, you just need to ask question and listen. There's so much value to be gained from learning about the amazingly diverse experiences of humans and I'm incredibly grateful that Dalia shared with us via Decolonizing Wellness, but also that I was able to have this incredible conversation as well. What To Expect in This Interview: We cover the following topics: How Dalia came to doing this work, and the courage it took for Dalia to write Decolonizing Wellness, and the incredibly vulnerable process of doing soSome examples of the many ways that health and wellness spaces miss the mark when it comes to persons of diverse and/or marginalized identitiesWhat Dalia means by "When you queer anything it becomes more inclusive" (and why I've never been more convinced of this after talking to Dalia and reading Decolonizing Wellness)What Dalia wishes more people understood about these topicsAnd much more! Who is Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD? Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice, continually creating wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable —...

Julie and Yeli chat about Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation by Dalia Kinsey. Listen for thoughts on food as an entry point to body liberation, unconditional permission to eat, and more. Subscribe and leave a review here in just seconds. Mentioned in this episode: Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey / Dalia Kinsey's website / Decolonization is Not a Metaphor article / Intuitive Eating / Anti-Diet / Belly of the Beast / The Body is Not an Apology / Fearing the Black Body Food peace resources: Julie Dillon RD blog / PCOS + Food Peace Free Roadmap / PCOS + Food Peace Course / Food Peace Syllabus / 6 Keys To Food Peace / My PCOS Manifesto If you're curious about what it looks like to stop pursuing weight loss, click here for some fabulous freebies that will help guide you in your journey! Do you have a complicated relationship with food? I want to help! Send your Dear Food letter to info@juliedillonrd.com.  Click here to leave me a review in iTunes and subscribe. This type of kindness helps the show continue! Find FREE food voice resources here. Thank you for supporting Find Your Food Voice!

Episode 69. Frustrated with emotional eating and not sure where to turn? Have you tried all the things, all the diets, all the "lifestyle" change programs only to worry that you "self-sabotage" by emotional eating? Do you feel like if you could just "stop emotional eating" then all would be writh in the world? Well, today we will touch on what's keeping you stuck, and my top favorite books to help pull you out of the ineffective (and incredibly draining cycle). Today I'm doing a review of my very favorite books to improve your relationship with food and stop binge eating. In fact, binge eating is actually the best term to use instead of emotional eating. Because guess what? Food is emotional and we should have an emotional relationship to food. But I know you want to feel more in control, so that's what we are covering today. Are you ready!? Let's dive in. What to Expect In This Episode The top 6 books I recommend most to help you improve your relationship with food and stop emotional eating or binge eatingGuidance on which books are best for which type of person. Do you like science? I've got a book for you. Or maybe you are more of a story person? Don't worry, there's a great recommendation for each of you.When to know if self help books aren't enough Taking that First Step Have you been caught in the binge-diet cycle, or felt like an emotional eating your whole life or for many years? You might be understandably skeptical that a book could help with such a lifelong problem, and you may be right... However, buying one of these books and reading it may in fact but the first crucial step on a path of healing. Here me out. The Way We Are Doing Things Isn't Working The standard approach to weight management and even treatment of binge eating disorder or emotional eating is not working for the VAST majority of people. Top Books to Improve Your Relationship With Food 6. The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown 5. The Joy Choice and/or No Sweat by Michelle Segar, PhD, MPH - List to my conversation with Dr. Segar here! 4. Health at Every Size by Lindo Bacon, PhD 3. Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD 2. The Diet-Free Revolution by Alexis Conason, PsyD and/or The Mindfulness-Based Eating Solution by Lynn Rossy, PhD - Listen to my conversation with Dr. Conason here! 1. Intuitive Eating by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch How to Know When Books Aren't Enough You continue to doubt the process, whether it's working, and if you are on the right path.You are reading the information, but not implementing it. And you still feel out of control and are still emotional eating.You still feel a tremendous amount of shame about your struggles.If you have a significant eating disorder (e.g., really are struggling to eat more food throughout the day, have very engrained thoughts about your body, are bingeing/purging or excessively exercising or doing other things to get rid of calories) please call the National Eating Disorders Helpline here. Remember that eating disorders can and do occurs in all body sizes. Options for Next Steps If you are finding that books aren't enough, or you are just wanting more support and to make progress faster, look into finding more support. Friend level support. Find a friend (or two) to do a book club with. Read one of the above books and meet regularly to discuss it and how you will apply it.Find a Health at Every Size aligned dietitian and/or therapist (counselor, psychotherapist, psychologist). If you can't find someone with their specific training, consider finding a therapist who might be willing to learn with you as a first step. Support Independent Bookstores Near You! Did you know that that if nothing slows their momentum, Amazon will have almost 80% of the book market by the end of 2025? Look, I love the convenience of Amazon, but I've got a super cool way that you can support local bookstores and my blog and podcast si...

Today we're joined by Jade Eloise. Jade self identifies as a fat Black, queer, artist, writer, and spiritual healer. Jade breaks down for us in this episode what body positivity truly means, what its roots are. Jade is a mental health and self-love advocate, but in this episode, breaks down the distinction between self-love and body positivity in its truest form.This episode we explore:The true definition of body positivitySeparating our worth from productivityIntersections of identity and creative freedomPushing back against social programing/conditioning This episode is too good to keep all to yourself. Episode Resourceswww.etsy.com/uk/shop/ArtbyBodiposipoet www.instagram.com/reclaimingbopo/Get your copy of Decolonizing Wellness A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationDalia: Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonized wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame and self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.Today we're joined by Jade Eloise Jade self identifies as a fat Black, queer, artist, writer, and spiritual healer. A bunch of my favorite things there back-to-back. So, this is a fabulous conversation, Jade breaks down for us in this episode what body positivity truly means, what its roots are. Jade is a mental health and self-love advocate, but in this episode, breaks down the distinction between self-love and body positivity in its truest form. This was a really informative interview when it was originally recorded and listening to it again.So that I could transcribe it before it posted it here on sub stack. I got so much more out of some of these observations Jade shared about entrepreneurship.I've been learning so much about myself in terms of what a affirming business space looks like for me and what type of marketing feels authentic and genuine and natural for me as I continue to promote Decolonizing Wellness, I have had such a time reckoning with the difference between what success is in terms of what I wanted from this project- which is to share, to use it as another tool, to reduce the suffering of all kinds of folks with marginalized identities that have a difficult relationship with their bodies because of the systems that we've been raised in but then also having a lot of residual hang-ups from how I was taught to measure success as a child in the public school system, in the United States and in general as a working class person. So. It has definitely uncovered a lot of areas for more growth. And while I've accepted that growth as an ongoing thing, it's even something that I discussed in the book that it's really crucial for us to get comfortable with that fact that there is no finish line in order for revolutionary change to really have a chance to take hold in our lives.But still I've been finding this particular experience to be a real catalyst for growth sometimes in an uncomfortable way but listening back to Jade's take on what it really looks like to do something creative or entrepreneurial was really helpful for me. So, I hope you enjoy this episode as well.If you love it, please be sure to share it with other people. Now that the podcast is on the Substack it's so easy to forward this episode to others. Alright, let's get right into it.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence.  This show is for everyone. So I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia:  Hello. Thank you so much for taking out the time to come on the show.Jade: Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here.Dalia: When we did the livestream, I had nothing but positive feedback and there was just so much more that we could get into. But, you know, I didn't want us to make like a massive four-hour recording.So, I'm so grateful that you're able to come back again. So, we could talk about a couple of other areas. So, we already know that you're a gifted artist and that you are really leading the way and helping us reclaim body positivity. Can you give us a little bit of a rundown of where body positivity started?Then what happened to it? Like how it got hijacked and what you're working on now?Jade: Yeah. So, I think the general kind of misconception about body positivity is that it is synonymous with self-love. It's all about reclaiming your body image for yourself and learning to love yourself. And obviously self-love is so, so important.I'm a huge advocate for self-love. And I know how it affects your wellbeing. Actually, learn to love yourself. But body positivity is not in fact similar sort self-love. What if acidity is born from fat liberation movements which started to kind of back in the 20th century mid to late and it was mostly led by Black fat women and fat women in general as well, just leading the way in actually reclaiming their bodies.And just making the world know that they were tired of not having their needs as fat woman looked after of you know, medical discrimination, stopping them from getting the care that they needed of constantly being told that their bodies were wrong and needed fixing And, you know, moving into kind of the early 2000s, and then obviously the rise of social media platforms and Instagram in particular, that sort of led to this movement of Black fat women and fat women and femmes and people who lived in marginalized bodies actually saying, do you know what, we want to show people what our lives are like, that we're proud to live in our fat bodies and that we're reclaiming them for ourselves. So, then body positivity was then born into this community of people online just saying we're here. We deserve to be here. And look at us just living our best lives in our bodies exactly as they are.Which was beautiful for the time that it lasted. But with a lot of big movements, it always comes to the point where capitalism sweeps in, and corporations always try to find ways to make money out of movements. And I think, you know, that was the start of the decline of body positivity where of course, you know, we want fat people to get the bag and, you know, making their money from their movements.And that was great at the start, but actually as it started to being capitalized on, it also started being co-opted. And that was when we started to see the body positivity that we have today, where if you search body positivity online, you're mostly see slim white able-bodied women claiming self-love and claiming body positivity without knowing what body positivity really means.Dalia: That just makes so much sense. And it brings up a really big question. When it comes to people who are trying to do work, you're part of a movement. It affects you. It affects a population you belong to, but as we all know anybody who's trying to affect change in the world around them it can be very time-consuming.So, for it to be sustainable, it's really helpful if you're also able to earn an income working in that area. But how do you strike that balance of the need to survive, the fact that we all deserve to be able to take care of ourselves and live somewhat comfortably, and the desire to stop capitalism from completely running our lives.Someone made a point to me online recently that they personally didn't believe that there's any way to ethically make money because you're participating in a really broken system. But I also thought that was very convenient for them to say, because they have access to generational wealth. So, they technically can opt out of actively trying to support themselves.And so, it's like, okay. So where does that leave the rest of us who also know what it's like to live with intergenerational poverty and knowing that that is not it. Like that is not where we want to be.And you're also so limited as far as how much energy you can put into effecting larger change when you don't know where your next meal is coming from or how to keep a roof over your head from one week to the next.Jade: Yeah, I think, you know, that is a lot of problem for a lot of activists and advocates in all sorts of movements. There is no one right answer. Honestly, everyone is just doing their best to stand by their beliefs and their morals and the goals that they have. Whilst also caring for their own needs and the needs of their family.I think for me, I've realized that when I first started within self-love and then into body positivity movements. I was in that mindset of, you know, any opportunity that comes my way. I just want to grab it because I'm helping to perpetuate the message that I want to get out there whilst also looking after my financial needs.But then actually there's a beautiful woman on social media @michellehopewell over the last year. She's really inspired me to be looking at, actually am I questioning the companies and the people that I want to work with and looking into what are their morals, what are their ethics? Are they standing by the communities they claim to be standing by what are the motivations behind the campaigns and the things that they want to be running?And actually, realizing that I'm empowered to question that and by questioning that and by looking into in great depth the people that I want to work with, I can be selective about the work that I take on. And actually, you know, choose to work with communities and seek out communities that I want to work with.But of course, again, I understand that there's a huge amount of privilege within that, to be able to pick and choose who you work with. I would say to people, if you have that ability to actually turn down work, when it comes up if you feel like that there's some ethical issues surrounding that, then that is a choice you might consider it.But at the end of the day, it's all about you as an individual and what you're doing for the communities that you're trying to work for. So as long as you're standing by the morals and as long as you're conveying those within your work. I think that's the most you can do.Dalia: I think that answer's really helpful. And the nuance there, that's one of the biggest differences between kind of a white supremacy culture, very misogynistic or patriarchal way of viewing everything is that under that system, there's a definitive right, a definitive best. And then everything else is trash, right?When in reality, everything is more nuanced than that. And all of our lived experiences are so distinct. We need to give ourselves room to make individualized decisions and understand that maybe the right answer for you will shift and change over time as you have changes in other areas of your life, maybe with income, maybe with having better support, having better options.And that's okay too. It doesn't really serve us to beat ourselves up for trying to do good things worrying, am I doing good things the absolute perfect way, the right way?There is no absolute perfect or right way to do much of anything. So, yeah, I think that's a really helpful answer is to understand that there is no one answer.Jade: Yeah, I think we've lost this understanding and you know, honoring the gray area in a lot of topics there is everything isn't always yes or no, black or white, it isn't always, you know, there was a correct answer and there's a wrong answer in reality that everything in life, it's a spectrum. And, you know, we can only do our best to seek out the right answer for us.We can only do our best to stand by our communities. You know, and also, you know, the whole idea of cancel culture and, you know, you did one thing wrong and now you instantly have to be ashamed of yourself and there is no redeeming yourself from it. We're always learning. We're always growing. And I think so long as we're always striving to do our best, and it's almost, we're always willing to listen and learn and always do better than that is the best that we can do.Dalia: Yeah. And I think it's really helpful when, when your goal is to communicate with someone or to try to do something collaborative with someone and, you know, you'll have to deal with them on an ongoing basis. So, let's say. You know, it's a coworker or it's a family member or someone that, you know, you can't just cancel them and keep it moving.We really want to call people in and give people room to make mistakes and be imperfect. And at the same time, I'm all about the accountability, like you said with companies and individuals reaching out to you, being able to look and see, do you really seem sincere based on your previous behavior? And even then you're looking at a pattern of behavior, not necessarily cutting off opportunities or people based on one thing, but just the same, you know, if it feels like a hard no for you and a boundary, and it's not like this person or entity or organization has to be in your life, you know, you can dismiss them and make more room for other folks. So again, it's like, both its yes and instead of just one or the other, which is really interesting to me, I saw some, well, you're always seeing so much pushback and back and forth about the concept of cancel culture and some people really just wanting to never be held accountable for anything.But at the same time also seeing some people going over the top and asking people who are being preyed upon by a system to be held responsible for responding to the system. So again, so much more nuanced and complicated than what most people want to deal with.Yeah,Jade: absolutely. I think things like that, they always have their place, you know, we do have to hold people accountable and people should want to be held accountable as well, because again, If you're striving to be better and do better in everything you do, you cannot expect to be above reproach and actually, you know, be told what you're doing in this situation isn't okay where you can do better. If you're not open to that I would question why I would question why, and are you really aware of the privilege that you hold in these situations? You know, so it, I definitely think that it does have this place It's again, it's, it's just nuances. It's about understanding that everything is not yes or no. It's like you say yes, and.Dalia: Yeah. Speaking of everything not being yes or no. Before the call started, we were talking about the beauty and the challenges of trying to be self-sufficient in your business, living off of your talents or your gifts and it always being put out there at least to millennials and gen Z as the ultimate dream, because, you know, later in the gen X era, people were starting to have the freedom and the time to even think about, maybe my work should light me up.Maybe my work should be an extension of my life's purpose. Right. And then we lead even harder into that. And we're like, if this job doesn't light me up, I got to get out of here. It's trash and I need to be self-employed and everything's going to be great once I'm self-employed. And then once we actually get into trying to live the dream. We realize it's really challenging as well. And yeah. Can you speak to a little bit of your journey with realizing number one, that your art could be used to support a bigger social movement? And even maybe before that realizing that art was going to be a big part of your life, what did that look like for you?Jade: Oh, well, I never thought that art would be a big part of my life in terms of my personal wellbeing and my mental health it always has been because it's always been an escape for me and a way to express myself. I mean, even when I was a child I did art therapy for a time just to help me cope with the feelings and emotions I didn't necessarily understand always been quite artistic as opposed to a more logical person so in that respect, it has always been important to me, but in terms of my financial security, I never felt that art would play a part in that because it was kind of drilled into me that that was impossible.In terms of schooling and things like that, you know, it was always look for the logical career options. You know, the types of careers that people are expected to go for rather than the creative type, you know, that sort of wishy-washy career, as people seem to think it is, especially here in the UK. So, you know, I didn't think that I'd be able to do art as a career and actually it was only when I think about a year and a half ago, I started to get back into my art. And at the time I was teaching myself, I didn't have to be a perfectionist and that I could love my art for what it is rather than trying to make it something that it just wasn't. And I just had a real sense of fulfillment from just allowing myself to express myself through my art.And you know, I had people express that they actually really appreciated my art for what it was, and that was really affirming for me. Okay, well, maybe there might be more people out there who might be interested in what I do. And so, as a creative expression medium body positivity obviously is incredibly important to me.So, it just felt natural to incorporate the two. In fact, I didn't even realize I was doing it until people were saying to me, wow, you know, I haven't seen fat bodies and Black bodies depicted in this way before, or at least not as much as we should be seeing it. And I was like, wow, I didn't even realize I was doing it.Dalia: Oh, that is so, so cool. That's definitely not the answer I expected, but then when you make the point that, of course everyone had told you, like artists starve, I don't know why that didn't occur to me because I keep seeing people make it work. Maybe like over the last 10 years, I almost forgot that that's what we were all told.I wanted to be a writer since elementary school, even though I grew up in an incredibly racist public school system, even in that environment, teachers kept telling me, oh, I feel like, you know, she's going to be a writer, but all of the adults in my life are like, ha ha. Why? Because you want to starve like that doesn't even make sense.Don't listen to them. They're just blowing smoke. Don't pay attention to that and it's taken almost. 30 years to come back around to what I wanted to do in the first place, which is very, very strange. So, kudos to you for coming back so quickly before you got like deep, deep, deep, into a career that maybe didn't light you up as much. The way it's usually depicted in movies and in books is that artists have a tortured relationship with their art. And since you were using art as a self-expression and self-soothing tool, have you had any stickiness around your relationship with your art?Jade: I think in terms of art was always really personal for me.So, I'm trying to make it into a career and make it productive. Oh, I hate productivity. I hate it with a passion. So, you know, when it sort of felt like I had to do things on a schedule and I had to jump. Create create, create and create for other people rather than creating for myself. I had a moment of do I even want to do this anymore?But actually, I tried to pull myself back out of that again, and I'm not creating to a schedule. My Etsy store I had planned to update it every two months. It has been three. I still have not updated it because, you know, I haven't created what I want to create yet. And I'm just leaving space for myself to create as I want to.And not as I feel like I should, or I have to because I always find that the art that I create on a whim is art that other people appreciate the most. And the art that I love the most. So. I'm sort of sticking to that, but of course, in terms of actually being financially sustainable, that's, you know, not quite as sustainable as I would like it to be, but, you know, again, that's what we were talking about before people don't talk about those elements of creative careers in terms of, you know, living the dream, you know, if you're self-employed, then you're living the dream, but actually in reality it is very stressful and very unpredictable.And there's parts of that I absolutely love, but there's parts of it that keeps you up at night, completely stressed out of my mind. So, you know, there's two elements to it.Dalia: Yeah. I can understand now why some people, they have their passions, but they know for a fact that they want to work for someone else.They know that they want to be able to demand their paycheck when its due regardless of what has changed in the world around them, right? Like you don't get to decide whether or not you pay your employees. They know that check is coming on a schedule. And when you're self-employed, you know, there's just so many different things that can affect what your income is going to be like from one month to the next.When I was a kid, my parents always it's, it's funny because. It seems like, no matter what your parents tell you, you're probably going to be skeptical about it. Like, so you hear like some kids who are raised by very creative parents who always lived off of their own talents, pushing their kids to do the same.And they're like, I don't know about that. And then they decide I want to go work for the man and then vice versa. But my dad had a really stable job, but it was for fairly large organization. And so when they went through a period of deciding to tighten their belts and get rid of people who had more experience, so they could pay younger people half as much to do the same thing, he ended up deciding to go his own way, took his severance package and decided self-employment was a better fit for how he and my mom wanted to live.And they've always tried to stress us that the security you feel when you're waiting on that one check from your company is an illusion, like we've seen living through this global pandemic. Checks that seemed really, really dependable evaporated into thin air. And in theory, when you work for yourself and you have multiple clients or multiple contracts, you lose one, but you're not down to zero income, but at the same time, it just is a lot of mental work to accept that instability and flexibility are normal and have to be part of our lives as adults if we ever want to have any sense of peace around our income. It's such a struggle because when you do work for someone else and you get that check at the same time every month, you completely buy into the illusion that you have security.Jade: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I just, I think there is no one right answer when it comes to either working for yourself, working with someone else or finding that balance between the two. I think for me having a bit of both works really well because the stresses I get from one or alleviated by the other and vice versa.So, I worked part-time for someone else and I worked part-time for myself. And I always know, as far as I'm aware that I'm getting my monthly to check from working for someone else, but I always have my business to fall back on should that something ever go wrong with that role. And you know, when it comes to creating, it does give me more creative license. Because it means that I'm not relying on my income from my own business, you know, to get me through the month. And I think we have this sort of expectation on people when they are self-employed that, you know, you have to focus, you always see those things, you know, those like motivational quotes and things online when they're like, you know, you have to dedicate your whole time, like stop splitting your focus, just focus on the thing that you want.Go out there, grab it, manifest it, all these other things. And you know, it's like, that's great. I love that mentality, but is it realistic? Because I know the stresses that my business brings me and, you know, If I focused on it full time, I don't know if I could deal with that overwhelming stress of not knowing if I was financially, financially secure.So, I think you have to have a little bit of understanding for people, regardless of what a job is, regardless if they're working for someone else or work for themselves, it's great to have dreams and hopes and motivations, but I think realism also does play a part. And you know, not just expecting people to give up security for the sake of creative freedom, I think it is no, it's just.You can't, it's not sustainable and it's a lovely dream, but I just don't know if we can always obtain it straight away. But we can take those steps to obtaining it further in the future.Dalia: Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest gaps is that it's presented as something that we can make happen in a really narrow window of time when I think in reality it's normal for a business to be in the red and the negative for maybe the first three years. Like that used to be an understanding that that's normal, but because the internet supports the illusions that are like, zeitgeist we think that people wake up one day and realize, you know, that the hustle culture is where it's at and the magically by the end of the week, they're making millions of dollars.And I don't think that's really a thing. And it really makes sense to me, especially for people who hold identities that are being marginalized in that environment, that they're living in to understand that if you are under a lot of stress or pressure, that may be additional stress from having to work through fears around security and stability is going to be a major obstacle for you. That may be the person who wrote that post about like staying focused and manifesting your dreams. Maybe they didn't have those other factors. And that statement made perfect sense to them and their life. And you even think about how will people regard you if you're in a large body and you have brown skin and you are an artist and you're living off of that art and things, don't go quite as planned and you go to get support from some social system or safety net that exists in your country, how will you be perceived versus someone doing exactly the same thing as you and a smaller body with white skin? You know, even the reluctance to be in a position where you might need help is influenced by our identities.ItJade: really is. I mean, you know, up until.Literally this month I was on benefits. I was on called universal credit. And you know, in a lot of ways, if I wasn't on benefits, I wouldn't be able to start my business because they actually helped me to get the initial funding to do that. But that was a source of shame or embarrassment for me because I'm very much hyper aware of how people might perceive me because of my body. And I didn't want to live up to that fat, lazy stereotype of, oh, you'd rather just live on benefits rather than working hard. I think for me, because I, I am disabled. I have chronic illnesses. And also, I am, you know, I have a creative mindset, you know, I'm, I'm not someone who can be hyper-focused on manual activities my brain just doesn't work that way.And, you know, people might think that's an excuse, but really that is just how my brain works and how my body works. We're all different in those ways. So, for me, you know, working for myself has provided me with the opportunity of working in a way that suits me and looks at myself. No, I'm not interested in hustle.And I think people would be horrified, but you know, oh, you don't want to work hard. You just want to be lazy, whatever. And again, I feel that stereotype, especially living in a larger body and especially with being disabled as well, because again, I know within the working classes in the UK, there is this idea of if you're on any sort of disability benefit that you're just trying to scam the government out of money.So, there's all these stereotypes around different body types. Hustling doesn't interest me. I think we have this very odd colonialist mindset that you have to work yourself into the ground, but you have to work until you, you, your health has just deteriorated and only then are you benefiting society only then are you worthwhile.My wellbeing matters to me. I'm not interested in stressing myself out in making myself ill. So yeah, I want to work hard, but my perception of what working hard is not someone else's perception. And I think when it comes to things like being self-employed, there's this idea again, that if you're not working 60, 80 a hundred-hour weeks that you're not working hard enough. So, your failures are caused by you. It's no, that's all I can say to that. No, because we have to look after ourselves. You know, we're not just here to be placed on this earth to work. And then for that to be it, we have to live. We have to look after ourselves.We have to find purpose in whatever way it works for us. So, hustle is great if someone's, if someone loves hustling absolutely go for it. Do that thing. For me, I want to look after myself. I want to enjoy whatever it is that I do in all capacities. And often that just means slowing down.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that's such a, that is a whole word like that is such a crucial message.And what's so funny is when you really look at how people perform at their peak, following your body signals and knowing when to slow down and knowing when you're just not feeling it, you know, you sit down to write something, you sit down to record something, and your energy is not there. If you make yourself sit there for eight hours, it doesn't get any better.Sometimes what you need to do to get the best product is to leave. Stop what you're doing. Go do something different. Do something that activates a different part of your consciousness. Relax. Sometimes you find, when you sit down to do something that you thought you'd been putting off, you'd actually been ruminating on it in a positive way, in the back of your mind all week.And then when you sat down all the information you have been kind of letting simmer comes back to the surface. So sometimes even, or concepts of what is working, it doesn't fit the reality of the situation. You don't have to be working in a way that someone walking by would be able to validate, you know, if you have your own creative process and you honor that and you're willing to respect yourself enough to tailor your life to what works for you. Then your productivity may actually surprise you like how much better your productivity is when you respect your body.Jade: Yeah. And I also think it's really important to have a really strong sense of self and to work on understanding of self, because a lot of people, again, will look at you and tell you things about yourself.You know, you're not working hard enough, you're not working in the right way, but if you understand yourself, you can acknowledge those times when you are actually, you know, being productive without being physically productive.And also knowing the ways that you work might be different to other people and that those ways are completely valid. So, you know, a lot of things, when I was younger things that people would say, speak of me, quite negative things about the way I worked. But for instance saying that I'm, you know, flaky or I don't commit to certain projects and I felt that for a long time and I am still working through those feelings now, but what I recognize now is those things that might make someone consider me to be flaky or to not commit are also the things that on new projects get me to absolutely push through and bring ideas together and pull them into something and, you know, birth them into the world in a way that I wouldn't have been able to perceive if I didn't have those qualities, they allow me to multitask.They gave me the energy and the drive. You know, when I have short deadlines, I am never more committed when I have a short deadline, because that's how my mindset works. So, we all work in different ways and all those ways are completely valid. And actually, when it comes to then collaborating on projects, you know, you get to work with people who have work in different ways to you and you all compliment each other.So just because you don't work in the same way that someone else does doesn't mean that you're not valid, actually it makes you an amazing team member and an amazing contributor once you know what those qualities are and how to make them work for you for the better.Dalia: That's the key is knowing what those qualities are.And I appreciate that you acknowledge that maybe you've been trained to devalue working style or your creativity, maybe that is not just something you're going to be able to wake up and say, oh, now I know that this is valid. Maybe it will be a process. Maybe you'll really have to push to work through it.And with some of the obstacles, we have mindset obstacles from childhood. This may be something we're always working through. You know, you kind of go in cycles, you go through phases where you understand your worthiness and then something rocks you and you take a couple steps back and then a couple of steps forward.That's natural too. Thinking we're going to magically erase everything that conditioning has done to us up until now isn't really realistic. And I think that also ties back into how there's no nuance in a lot of the bod pos things we see out there that you're going to erase all of your conditioning and love yourself completely every single day and want all these pictures of yourself from strange angles and want to share them with the world. Like that’s just, just not the reality for most people. It may not even be the reality for the people posting those photos and some people. And I don't say this to be a hater, but some people aren't even posting images that they haven't tampered with.So that's something to consider too, just because someone puts out an image and they use all the right hashtags and it looks like, oh, they're revealing something that it's brave of them to show like that one roll. That doesn't mean there was no airbrushing in other areas. Everything could be an illusion, right.And whatever that person is comfortable with, that's fine. But at the same time, if we internalize that I have to be at this point where I've just going to take pictures from all these angles and post them and feel great about it not understanding that that person curated that image too, that puts you in a really tough spot.And you will end up being too hard on yourself as you try and work toward greater self-acceptance.Jade: Yeah. And you know, like in terms of social media it’s a highlight reel, regardless of the types of content that people are posting, you know, whether it be body positivity and all the different forms of what people perceive as body positivity.People are posting the highlights of their journey with their bodies and with the, you know, overcoming conditioning they don't share those moments when they've actually, you know, reverted to an old mindset, or they're still trying to overcome old patterns because it doesn't fit into the image of ourselves that we've curated online. And actually, this idea that we overcome conditioning, but we're still living in that conditioning. It is constantly being forced at us all the time. So, I think there's no way to overcome the conditioning all we're doing is constantly pushing back against it and finding ways to rewrite the narrative for ourselves and for others in particular within body positivity.And I think, again, that's another mistake that people make in this comparison to body positivity and self-love because if I was gonna compare body positivity to anything, which I don't like to do, but if I was going to, it would be body neutrality. Body positivity is the understanding that all bodies are equal and deserve to be treated equitably within our society.There is no good or bad within body positivity. It's not about creating a beauty ideal, in which all bodies are accepted. What it's actually about is removing the body ideal understanding that we shouldn't be hierarchically categorizing bodies. Bodies are just bodies. You know, they don't define us, and we can't put moral value on them.And I think body neutrality is far more important in that sense than self-love because it's understanding that you don't have to look at yourself every morning and go, oh my God, I love myself. Let me take a selfie immediately from all these different angles. It's not actually saying I am neither here nor there about my body, because I'm know that I'm more than my body.I am most important. And people might perceive things about me because of my body but as long as I understand how I perceive my body is enough, that is what matters. And as long as I am carving out space, for my body to be seen and heard and valued for exactly what it is and as long as I'm searching for equal treatment within any space that I take up, that is what's important.So, I think, you know, even if we take away the fact that body positivity has been co-opted, the fact that it's being compared to self-love again, is really problematic in that sense of making people feel like they have to love themselves in order to be body positive. Cause they don't.Dalia: That's such a helpful reframe and that makes so much more sense with the reality of our lives and the fact that we're still in environments that are hostile to our bodies. So pushing back is the goal like, and that is as far as it's probably going to get for a while and seeing the ways in which corporations and other people want to use our sense of self to commodify us is really helpful when it comes to understanding that it's most important that we have a strong relationship with our sense of self and knowing that we are more than our body and more than these individual things that marketers want us to focus on correcting and taking your body back and really living in it on your own terms. It's a vehicle for you to do all the things that you're on this planet to do it isn't a self-improvement project to spend all your days on.Jade: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I know that's a concept that when I'm talking to people about body positivity, I often try to get them to understand that your body is a vessel. It is a vehicle for navigating with the world, for communicating with the world.It is not the be-all and end-all of who and what you are. We place so much worth on aesthetics of a body when the ascetics of the body are the least important, part of all the functions that it has for us. And sure, I think that's a deeper conversation that doesn't really go into body positivity, but in terms of understanding self-worth and having a strong sense of self, it is a really important concept to grasp.Because on days when I am not happy with my body because I understand that it doesn't fit into these Eurocentric beauty ideas that we have and that, you know, for the rest of my life, I have to deal with the fact that maybe we'll never get to a point within society in my lifetime where my body is accepted. But what I can do for myself is understand that regardless of what society is telling me about my body and about my worth because of my body, I can push back against that because I understand deeper than that, that the conditioning that we are facing does not define us.Dalia: Yeah, that's extremely helpful when it comes to work. In online spaces, knowing that it's a highlight reel and also knowing that people are in different stages of their journey toward understanding the things that you're teaching about, how do you navigate creating boundaries and creating safer spaces for the people in your community?Jade: I think the first thing is that I don't engage in any kind of troll like behavior. I used to, I used to feel like because of the privilege that my body holds in certain senses I want it to have the capacity to be able to speak for those who might not be able to have the resources and tools to speak for themselves in these situations and actually try and reeducate people wherever possible in whatever way they were coming at me.So, when I used to have people comment on the things that I was doing online or engaged with members of my community, under my posts, I would always try and reeducate and engage in conversation. But I realized that there are people who don't want to engage in these conversations they're either so wrapped up in the conditioning that they've faced, that their self-hatred is pouring outwards onto other people or, they really do have a deep disdain for my communities. That's, that's none of my business, you know, if, if that is how they want to present themselves to the world, I don't need to engage with that. So, I've set a really strong boundary in that sense of actually saying it's not my responsibility to engage with that person.So, I don't at all. I block any comments that come up, which are clearly antagonistic. And I focus my energy on engaging with the people who want to be there and who are searching for better for themselves. And it's also not just to protect me, but it's to protect anyone who comes onto my page because they don't need to be subject to the nasty, cruel comments that people feel the need to express.So that's sort of a hard boundary that I have recently had set in the last year, kind of a firm for myself that that's not my business to be doing that. And then in terms of, you know, sometimes I don't have the tools and resources to help people through something because I'm working for it myself.And often you'll find in community spaces that you're always triggering things for each other areas of your life that need healing, which is wonderful and it's really important for continued self-growth and self-development. But also, you have the hold space to yourself first. So, in those instances, I'll often say to people, I really appreciate you coming to me with this.Unfortunately, I can't help you with this right now, but you know, please continue to be in this space and it's not because I don't want to be there for you in this moment. It's just that I don't have the resources myself to do that.Dalia: That's really helpful knowing that you have to hold space for yourself first and knowing that that is the nature of community, is that we continually hold up mirrors to other people and trigger growth in them, and sometimes it doesn't feel great. So that can make being in community a challenge, but it really is a place where so much healing happens, but where I've seen it go kind of off the rails is where you don't have someone who's leading the conversation who can help guide the community with community agreements, community standards, like what we don't entertain here, what the space is not for.I've seen a lot of people lately, especially who say they want to grow. And I believe they believe they want to grow, but they're going to all the wrong places, asking for people to guide them when there are so many people who have created resources meant for those folks who are on that one-on-one level stuff with their anti-racism, with their body liberation, with their fat liberation.There are places dedicated to that. There are resources dedicated to that. And when you jump into a community where people have gotten beyond the concept of, oh, are these types of humans worthy of care and respect? That's not the place for you to show up asking, like, but are you sure though? Because I heard that bodies have to be this one way to be worthy of belonging and respect.Jade: Yeah. And I think, you know, I would hope, expect, I guess, from any community members that show up in my space, that they have an understanding of that. And obviously that's not always the case. And depending on what's been going on for me and how many instances I've had of people maybe overstepping their boundaries in certain spaces.I do have time to talk to people and just say, you know, maybe it's good for you to go away and do some research on this before you come back into this community space, because we've moved beyond this conversation. Sometimes I don't have the kind of emotional freedom and I don't have the emotional capacity to be able to have those conversations.In which case I just step away from it. Because again, I, I created this space for myself first for my own self-healing first, and then it moved beyond that and it moved into advocacy, but I will never put my mental health into detriment because of dealing with other people. But again, that's not to say that people can't get things wrong sometimes, which is why I always try and give people the benefit of the doubt.But, you know, if someone's continuing to show up into a space and they've been told multiple times, we're not having this conversation and they continue to have that conversation. Yeah, I just, you know, I have, I have a limit when it comes to that.Dalia: That's a good model for the rest of us, that it is okay and crucial if you want to do advocacy work and if you want to lead community spaces to prioritize your own wellbeing. Because the work is not sustainable without that.Jade: Yeah. And I would expect. Or hope for that for anyone sharing the body positivity space and the online space. I think we do have to be looking after our mental health, because it can become overwhelming.We can expect too much from ourselves. We can expect perfection from ourselves. And I think when it gets to that point of expecting perfection from ourselves, I've seen instances where people start to create another false sense of identity where they don't even realize when they might be causing problems and being problematic within the communities that they are trying to be a voice of reason within.So, checking back in with yourself and reconnecting with yourself and understanding, you know, maybe I don't have the right words, the right tools for this situation, because we're never going to be completely perfect, we're always learning. I don't know everything about body positivity because I wasn't around for its conception.I've had to learn and research all the things that I know about it as a community member and grow with it over time. So, when there are instances where I don't know things, either I go out of my way to research it and bring back the information that I found or I just have to turn around and say, I don't know.I really don't know. I need to do this work for myself before I can bring you into this space with me. And you do see instances of people in different communities, not just body positivity where that's not being done, because we trick ourselves into this thinking, we have to be perfect. And we have to know everything because this expectation has been placed upon us.It's not, it's just not realistic. And I think reconnecting with yourself and holding space for yourself helps to prevent that as much as possible. And also, then being open to accountability and being open to being told, maybe you're wrong in this instance is also important for keeping our privilege in check and for making sure that we're doing the work that we want to be doing rather than what we think we're doing.Dalia: Yes, do you have any practices that you can share that are good for restoring your sense of being grounded? Like after you've had a negative interaction with somebody onlineJade: For me, I, I have lots of little silly sort of practices that I do because I think they're so human that they sort of, they just make sense to me.They might not make sense from people, but little things. Like whenever I pass a mirror, I always make sure to make a face at myself. And this seems like such an odd thing when I tell this to people. It takes away the seriousness of all connection mural reflection, because I don't think it's normal for us to see our reflection as much as we do.It's not really. Ingrained within us to be staring at mirrors all the time or seeing pictures of ourselves all the time. So, whenever I see my reflection, I'll just pull a face or a smile at myself. Just little things like that, that creates a positive interaction with my reflection and grounds me within myself to be like, whatever stresses are going on, whatever kind of negative interactions that I've had that might make me feel negatively about my self-worth or about my body they're sort of irrelevant on the grand scheme of things. That one interaction does not define me, does not define my work. And so just doing little small things like that to connect with myself really make a big difference. And then as kind of a spiritual healer for me doing things like meditation and doing things like you can visualize body scans and connecting with your body and just feeling at home in your own skin.Those sorts of things are really great for just feeling grounded within yourself. And also, being outside whenever possible, obviously is really helpful as well, just for connecting with the world on a wider scale, rather than focusing on the internet, because it is still a very small community, even though it seems like it connects us to everything, it can become a bit of an echo chamber.So, stepping outside of that and back into the real world is definitely, really helpful as well.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that really resonates with the body scans. Do you guide people through those or is it, can you show us how to do that?Jade: It's a little bit of a longer process that I'd be able to share with you right now.But in terms of I was running meditation classes and it will be something that I'm doing again. But you can find body scans and guided meditation during a body scan online. Or if you just search on YouTube, there's lots of wonderful ones. When it comes to meditation, I think the voice is the most important.So, finding a voice that resonates with you and that you feel comfortable and secure with, because it is mostly auditory led. So, you have to find one that works for you. Often people find one meditation, don't connect with it and then think they hate meditation. But in reality, it's just, they haven't connected with the right person.So just keep searching for one that works for you or write your own, just focus on connecting with the body, the sensations that are around you. I like to imagine my energy coming together as a ball of light in my chest, and then that light moving to different areas of my body and just allowing myself to feel that, connecting with the ground, those sorts of things.They just help to center you. And help you see your body as more than its aesthetics and actually understanding all the things that our body does for us on a day-to-day basis. And that's, you know, as someone with chronic illnesses, it can be difficult to appreciate your body when you feel like it's almost working against you.But those little moments of connecting back with myself really helped me to have appreciation for all the things that my body does do as opposed to kind of berating it for the things that it doesn't do.Dalia: That's really helpful. Where do people keep up with you so that they can be in touch when you start offering those again?Jade: So, I do have a Facebook page it's called a Safe Space to Grow. There hasn't been much on there for a few months. Cause we were talking about before we started I kind of needed to create space for myself to focus on certain projects. So that has taken a back seat to now. I do also share sort of mini meditations to my Instagram page @bodiposipoet. I'm hoping to start showing them short.Really short one-minute snippets as well to TikTok at some point, just to add a little bit of sort of body positivity and grounding into that space as well, because it can be a little bit chaotic at times.Dalia: Yeah, absolutely. Just a few people who've done that really creatively since, you know, the video just starts over and over again, the way they did it, it feels like a full meditation, like as long as you want it to be because of where starts over. So, I love that idea. We'll be looking out for that. Are you, is it the same handle on TikTok?Jade: Yes. It's actually @artbybodiposipoet, because I was originally using it for my artwork and will continue to use it for that purpose as well. But yeah, I'm sure if anyone wants to find it, they should be able to.Dalia: Wonderful, thank you so much for coming on. I'll definitely have the links to your Etsy store and all of those other places.Jade: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I love that every time we talk, there's always something new and different that comes out of the conversation. So, yeah, I've loved it. Thank you so much.Okay. I know it wasn't just me. Was that, or was that not just packed full of gems? Jade really dropped a lot of knowledge on us in this episode. Be sure to look for Jade on TikTok and on Etsy. I am really pulling back with social media these days thinking about how to use my energy in the most effective way for all of the things that I want to do so you probably won't find me on social media.But you will be able to find me in the comments on Substack. I'm working on building community there, doing coaching asynchronously there because that's a way to make myself accessible to a lot more people at once. So, I hope you will check out that option that is for the supporting members. Of the show and the body liberation for all community in general.I will have links below in the show notes to give you more details about that. If you feel called to check it out. Thank you so much for joining me. I will talk to you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

tumeric lattes, yoga, chia anything, shea butter - all wellness trends that are hot right now. Amal unpacks what it means when we participate in these trends and why it's problematic. This show was broadcast on OAR 105.4FM Dunedin oar.org.nz

This week, my guest is Dalia Kinsey, a nutritionist, speaker and author, who works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice. Dalia and I talk about: Identities, how we identify and how the language of identities is personal and changes over time. Health vs healthcare and how our daily experiences and emotions including joy impact our health behaviours.  Why Dalia wrote a book specifically for BIPOC and LGBTQIA folks. How Dalia worked up the courage to write a book proposal and get a traditional publishing deal. And so much more.  You can check out season 1 and other season 2 guests of Writing Black Joy over on https://www.writingblackjoy.com/ You can find more about Dalia at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ If you want to support us you can join our Patreon community over at https://www.patreon.com/safiyarobinson If you are outside of Barbados, you can find Dalia's book Decolonizing Wellness on Amazon. Use this link, or find the region that is closest to you  You can follow me on Instagram on https://www.instagram.com/safiyarobinson77 If you want to know about working with me, go over to https://www.safiyarobinson.com/  

Decolonizing Wellness: The Podcast is a place for people who want to engage in wellness practices with integrity. Join Jyoti, Founder of My Wellness Company, and her incredible guests as they explore indigenous wellness practices by delving into their history & roots, understanding how we can appreciate rather than appropriate and how, once we know better, we can do better. You can learn more about your host over on IG: @mywellnesscompany or by visiting her website where you will find an array of free wellness resources. With special thanks to Hanna Francis who has written & performed the music & song for this podcast Connect with Hannah on her website or on IG: @selfhelpsongwriter --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/jyotichadda/message

Dalia Kinsey is a non-binary Queer POC who joins us this week to discuss Dalia's book: Decolonizing Wellness: A Qtbipoc-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation.  Join us as we discuss a host of topics both financial and well-being that can help all of us thrive.  Remember to subscribe to the weekly show notes newsletter for a chance to win a copy of Dalia's book.  For the resources and to connect with our guests, get the show notes at: https://queermoneypodcast.com/subscribe

This episode is a gift. Charlotte James and Dre Wright, the co-founders of The Ancestor Project share their knowledge of using sacred earth medicine as a tool for liberation. Dre and Charlotte make it clear that there is no such thing as a magic pill/cure all for the ills that systemic oppression cause us, but sacred earth medicine can be a life changing catalyst for growth. In the end the magic is within you. But if you’ve been feeling called to discover what role plant medicine can play in your healing journey you are going to love this episode. This episode we discussUsing plant medicine or sacred earth medicine in your healing journeyRadical self-love as a major step in spiritual workSafety and the importance of BIPOC integration circlesCatalysts for growth vs magic pillsRecognizing your lineage and ancestral healing tools Dalia: Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonized wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame and self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.I have been interested in instant enlightenment for a really long time and through research and personal growth, I realized that there's no such thing, but that doesn't stop me from being distracted by or enthralled with any promise of short cutting personal and spiritual growth. So when I started hearing more about plant medicine and hearing all these over the top dramatic stories about how it's changed people's lives in one session, of course, I was interested.So this has been something I have had some personal lived experience with. And what has become really clear is that just like any area of wellness, where people have monetized something that does have true healing potential, you have to be an educated consumer. It's extremely helpful from the standpoint of a healer to encourage people, to keep their expectations in check, because just the way the human brain works and how susceptible so many of us are to suggestion there is massive potential for disappointment when we create specific expectations fir experiences that yield wildly varying results. I'm so happy today to share with you a conversation with two healers that really are invested in the liberation and the growth of the people that they work, who aren't just out here selling big promises. They're about the healing work and transformation. Dre and Charlotte from The Ancestor Project, give us some really helpful tips in this episode that I think will help anyone who's considering using plant medicine or sacred earth medicine to continue moving forward in their healing journey.I'm sure you're going to enjoy this conversation. Let's jump right.Theme SongYeah, they might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept. When the world is tripping out, tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them. Live your life just how you like it. It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard.Look in the mirror and say it’s time to put me first, you were born win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone, so I thank you for tuning in. Let's go!Dre: I am a spiritual being, having a human experience. My fundamental nature is pure creative power and unconditional love. I'm Dre a co-founders of the Sabina Project and we actually changed our name to The Ancestor Project, but we're honored to be here and yeah. Thank you.Charlotte: And I am Charlotte James, the co-founder of the now Ancestor Project.Dalia: Thank you so much for being here. That new name really resonates. I had to do a little research to try and understand where Sabina was coming from, but can you tell us about that? And what made you feel like a name change was more in alignment?Dre: You know, as healers, a big part of, being in our opinion to be an effective healer is to do a lot of self-reflection.So when we came up with the name, The Sabina Project, who was because we were Charlotte was at a talk and there was, uh, there was a mention of Maria Sabina. But it was mentioned in a very, like, they, they spend a lot of time deifying and all these white men and, you know, acting as if they discovered mushrooms and the, and these traditions and oh yeah we want to give a shout out to Maria Sabina. Right. And there's a, there's an important backstory behind that actually, you know, see there was a tremendous amount of pain and suffering. That she experienced, uh, after sharing this medicine with Watson who lied to her to get her to share a ceremony. You know, one of her children was murdered. The house was burned down. The Mexican government treated her like a drug dealer. It wasn't a good experience. Right. Watson came down there. He had an experience. He was supposed to keep it secret, but then he wrote this article in Life magazine and then all these westerners besieged her home village.And that was not good for the family. So knowing that, Charlotte stood up and started breaking this down. Like, oh, we couldn't, you need to do a little bit better job of venerating this ancestor. And so after the talk we were thinking about a name, she was like we wanted to name it Sabina Project.This was a great example of cultural appropriation, right. And how the west takes advantage. However, we didn't ask Sabina for permission to use her name. Right. We thought it was a good idea. And even though our intentions were good, we were in fact doing the same thing we're calling out in other individuals.So in self-reflection the changing. Charlotte: Yep. Yeah. It is some soul searching, some ego checking. Um, and yeah, we want to continue to be an example, um, in the psychedelic space and to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And also, you know, as we expand in this work, the truth is that the traditions that we practice, that we learned from that we venerate and that we come from are not just one tradition.And so we wanted to have a name that was more inclusive of all of the ancestors that brought us to where we are now. So yeah, we're The Ancestor Project.Dalia: That's fascinating that it came up for you in that context. What initially led you to be interested in using plant medicine as a healing tool?Was it first a tool you used personally? Or something you just wanted to explore because of some other reasons.Charlotte: So we definitely work off of the mindset that the medicine calls you in, and it happens in a number of different ways for different people. We both have really seemingly like on the surface, very different introductions into our path in this.I first started using cannabis when I was 14. I know that it was incredibly supportive in helping sort of chill out some unrecognized, high functioning anxiety tendencies. And really supported me and like moving through high school and college I think at that point, my mind was already very open.Uh, I had had a lot of mind expanding experiences. And so when other psychedelics or plant medicines like were offered up, I was open to the idea of exploring that. And yeah, whether I was doing it incredibly intentionally back then, it certainly was like key to getting me into where I am as a person today.Dalia: I know for me personally, it's always felt like everyone around me who is part of the dominant culture uses drugs recreationally at some point in their lives without fear of it completely changing the course of their life. But I always felt like I better not touch any of that with a 10 foot pole because the minute I even think about something that's restricted, I imagine the man's just going to pop through a wall or something like that.That was always my concern. And it feels even more outrageous that a lot of these medicines were in the hands of the people that now are not allowed to use it. On a level, the narrative is still that, oh, this is restricted, but no, it's only really restricted for some people. So how do you encourage folks of color who want to access the healing potential of plant medicine to do so?Because they know there are some things that are legal here in the states that maybe aren't as highly publicized, that could also be useful. And then there are places you could travel to where you can explore other types of medicine without as much worry. And then there's different worry about like, can you trust the provider? How do you set the setting? What advice would you give someone who is just starting to think about possibly exploring plant medicine?Dre: Good question. Great question. And then, you know, the answer is layered.You know, back to what Charlotte said before the medicine calls you when you're ready to answer, right? These medicines are millions of years old and wise. So that’s the first thing, the second thing is understand that all of the information that you have learned has been information that's been shared to you by the person who did and is currently imprisoning your black body, right. So why would you trust them? Right. And you should start asking the question. Why, why is it that, you know, an African-American male has, is 900% more likely to be arrested for simple possession of cannabis in the state like Maryland used to before it was legal.When in the United States, we use cannabis at a lower rate. So the reality is too, that there is a significant difference in the types of punishments that we receive or how these laws are enforced. Right. On the other hand we will not liberate ourselves from this oppression logically, right? We have to use both sides of our brain.Our superpower is from getting connected with these medicines. It is the path to our collective liberation. So if you want to spend another generation, explaining to your children, why they have to act differently and be treated differently because of their color, then you go ahead and do that. If you want to be on the liberation train, you're going to have to use some tools outside of the ones that we've all tried that have not worked.We've had a black president we've, you know, how much evidence do we need to have before you, before we realized that what we're doing, protesting and all that in fact, that's not really the answer, right. But there is an answer, right? And it's, it is our ancestors. This medicine comes from my ancestors.And they will get us to a place of liberation. Right? If that's important to you and some folks, you know, this lifetime, some aren’t ready to be liberated for those that are, this is the way this is the path.And then how do you approach these medicines? Well, I would say surrender to the idea that these medicines can support you and then you will, well, what tends to happen is the universe will open up for you and provide you with access. The pathways will come to you. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear, the first thing that you have to get past is the fear of these constructs.You know, this is the same government, if you think about most of the medications that you've been given that, that call quote unquote alright. Again the thought process and the belief systems that you have in you have been inculcated with nonsense.For example, they spread ideas like black people are lazy. But they used our black bodies for free to work. So clearly, you know, its the transfer of their sins onto us. So we've got to stop believing or at the very least question, their ideas, philosophies, and belief systems and start seeing them for how corrupt they really are. I would say that would be the first step, right. It's just like really, you begin to deconstruct your colonization. They don't have to actually control your body anymore. They've got control of your mind.Dalia: So is that why for you this is such a key part of the liberation process is because at this point, a lot of the feelings of imprisonment are just ingrained mentally and they're not physically there anymore.A lot of the barriers are gone, but it's hard to see them. Dre: Colonization is self-replicating. Patriarchy is self-replicating. These abuse constructs are self-replicating. So all you need to do is brainwash one generation. We still, as people of color, talk about light skin and dark skin in our communication.In so many dysfunctional ways, you know, we still, we are more religious about Abrahamic traditions, we hold on to those traditions tighter than they do. Right. We've got to take deep breaths. Right. And just realize that you can make different choices in our lives.And then once you start tapping into that stream of consciousness, all the opportunities that connect with these medicines, will be available.Dalia: You radiate calmness. This has been a really trying time for everyone. And you're also working as healers experiencing a lot of stress because of what people bring to you. And also because people want to block you from doing your work. There’s so many levels in what you just shared. I can hear the balance. In the last webinar that I attended, I saw that there were clearly colonizer descendants present as well, but you're able to face the fact of the horrors of the damage that colonization has done and allow descendants into the space. How do you find that place of, I guess, equanimity where you can hold room for both.Charlotte: If I could start on that one.I think part of what we recognize and also teach, especially when we focus on anti-racism work is that we have actually all been colonized away from our animistic and indigenous shamonic traditions. And this is oftentimes the root cause of cultural appropriation to bring it full circle is that folks are so disconnected from their own traditions that they begin to take from others and do so in a disrespectful and non reverential way.So we hold, you know, our like first true. community offering that we still carry through is our BIPOC integration circle that we do twice a month. And that's a time for us to come together with our BIPOC family and just talk about our experiences with the medicine and our experiences in the world.Reintegrating, the insights that the medicine gives us into a world in which we do exist within structures that are built to oppress us. Outside of that, our space is open to those who are willing to sit in their discomfort and face the role that their ancestors played in getting us into the place that we are now, and also the role that they play in perpetuating it.I know you, I think you came to the microdosing to dismantle oppression, workshop or masterclass, and you know, the whole, our conversation around working with these medicines for personal transformation is working to dismantle the systems of oppression that we've internalized so that we can stop projecting them and replicating the systems of abuse externally.And so, you know, we keep our community open to that conversation. I also, you know, I'm a biracial person and so I have to contest with that in my own identity as well. You know, I think it's important to be authentic to our lineages and our experiences in this space as Black folks with many different backgrounds and nationalities and heritages.Dalia: Yeah, I was recently reading, you know, the historian and the person who specializes in genealogy, that's always on PBS with famous folls, I think it's Henry Louis. Right? So it's so interesting in his book, he points out that so many Black families have these stories of Native American or first nations ancestry.And it's almost never the case. It's almost always European ancestry. And so this is something that a lot of Black Americans struggle with reconciling that no one is a hundred percent anything. That's just literally not a thing. And because of how binary race is seen in the states in particular, that can be really difficult for people to deal with because how we're socialized is typically going to be one or the other, like people don't let you just fully be yourself.So how has the medicine affected your ability to maintain your peace every day dealing with all the layers and all the work that you have to do to fully accept yourself in a world that makes that a little tricky.Dre: Yeah. Some, some good questions today. I got this Black dude, you know, the word that keeps coming up for me, the question, the last question is low, right?So we start from there. We are homo sapiens so 4% or so of our DNA might be Neanderthal. We are homo sapiens the species. Okay. We are also carbon based creatures and everything in the universe is mostly carbon. Every one of us is relatives.At the end of the day, this, the conversation we'll have is specifically now is about a 3d reality. The illusion that we walk around, the walking dead, I like to call it this, this illusion, we do live in a very abusive experience.Right. But we have the ability to transcend this reality, right. And then bring back that power back to this 3d world. Instead of us being the genius that the genius moves through us. Right. And for us, and that the universe inspires on, our behalf. Right. I think one of the reasons why the Abrahamic traditions and colonization have been so successful is that they got us disconnected from the other part of our brain.You've been using that logical, linear pathway that only distorted information and got us disconnected with the other side of ourselves. Right. And so what we are encouraging every human to do is understand the name that you chose before your parents were born. Right. And this reality, right? Yeah. So I think really at the end of the day, deep healing starts with having deep radical self-love for yourself, not defining yourself by anyone else's ideas, except for yourself, your true essence, right? And then when you are radically deeply in love with yourself, they have so much compassion and love. Most of the trauma that we are experiencing in humans most is from other humans is not from disease.And most of that trauma is simply the word. That another human uses towards us. Right? It's that? It's that dad, your dad not telling you, he loved you when you were six and now you're 80 and you're still traumatized by that experience. That's when most of us, so we'll want to get deeply in love with ourselves, right?And then once you’re loving yourself and really understanding your true essence, the medicines allow you to get out of your own way and allow you to heal the experience.Dalia: That sounds like deep spiritual work. Does it matter what traditions accompany this type of healing?Well, first, can you kind of tell us what animism is because that isn't something we hear about a lot in the west.Dre: So the easiest way to think about it is this is begin to seeing yourself as part of this great collective that we call the earth. I, and you you're one of many different organisms and you're related to all these things, right.And to develop a deep reverence and respect for those things for yourself. That's what all hunter gatherer traditions share, connection. Some of it was aligned with the food they were eating as well and how they survived. There was a deep connection and reverence for yourself. And then the other part of that was.So if you have both of those two things aligned, that's the practice. Find our ancestors practice, these ways, the flow. Charlotte: Yeah.That's this idea that every living and even what we would consider a non-living beings on this planet is alive and that we are an intrinsic part of that. I don't know if you've ever seen the graphic and it's like one side will say ego and there's like a little person on top and then various different kinds of animals underneath the person.And then on the right side, it will say eco. And it's like the person as part of, in a circle with all of these. Beings. And so it's the idea. Shamanism is really the idea of going from a dominion model, which is your right, like where there's a dominant culture, there's norms that are accepted as a dominant way of life to living in.I forget the term that, that like shamanism uses. To living in, in equanimity with everything around us. And you can find that tradition on the continent of Africa, in the Amazon, and also in Nordic tradition and Viking tradition in Russian tradition. So that's not something that is specific to Black and brown cultures, something that was specific to indigenous culture and there's indigenous culture around the world.But I thought that the question you asked around, like, does it matter what traditions you focus on in this like realm of healing or sort of sacred earth medicine healing space. I think a lot of what we talk about is educating folks on the lineages that these medicines and traditions come from, because you'll see now that there's a lot of research being done around how these medicines work and what they heal and can cure.And really our ancestors already did the research on how to safely and effectively use these medicines to support our collective liberation. And so for us, it's important to learn from these traditions to understand the context of the medicine. But again, circling back to this, you know, idea that we all now are very, like, sort of pluralistic in our identity.It also means that you can work with more than one tradition and there is not any sort of dogma around that aspect of it. And there's not even that much dogma within the traditions frequently.Dalia: Thats refreshing. And that's very different from like a colonizer perspective. Everything's always very one or the other confined. So I have noticed that, especially here in the states, it just seems like members of the dominant culture are running this healing space. What have you noticed is the difference in how folks of color, or maybe not even folks of color in general, just how you specifically, how is this tool different when it comes to.Through you basically tired of being at odds with your body, sick of diets and weight cycling that make you feel like trash. Would you like to finally make peace with food so that you can focus on what your actual purpose in life is? What would your life look like if you trusted your intuition and let your true desires guide your actions.This episode is brought to you by the master intuitive eating and self-trust total transformation package. This is the program for you if you're ready to heal your relationship with food once, and for all this, isn't another generic bod pos coaching program. This program, centered on liberation, will free you from chronic dieting, poor self image and self doubt. Nutrition is the tool that we use to reconnect to your inner wisdom and your sense of self-worth. This three month coaching program will give you the sustainable results you've been looking for by the end of our time together, you'll have a firm grasp on intuitive eating, you’ll be at peace with your body, and aligned with your purpose, and your true desires. If that sounds good to you just visit daliakinsey.com/coachingDre: Ancestral practices. You know, we, both of us had been in the dominant white spaces before, and there's a lot of forms of sensationalism, the medicine itself and the proper what's the dose. And I saw this, but when you get around predominantly BIPOC there tends to be a conversation around practice, around respect, around reverence and connection with your ancestors, which is really beautiful and fresh.And I don't think we've done last year. We did. I dunno, we did every first and third, Sunday, we do integration circle and I don't think we've ever had a conversation about an experience asking what was the dose and all that type of stuff, you know, sensationalized experience.Dalia: Well, my partner checked me yesterday.I think it was a few days ago because they are part of the dominant culture. And they're like, every time I walked by the off you are saying something about colonizers. He didn’t feel like it’s a blanket term people can connect to now. And I said, well, maybe I need to start looking for ways to address the reality of the situation is that we are dealing with fallout from colonization.But then also, like you said, it happened to everyone really but I think it's clear who is suffering on the more violent end. But everyone is suffering. So I'm experimenting with that, that term.Dre: Yeah. It's also interesting because we are using, you know, that try to have these conversations, but ultimately they used in our colonization.Right. Which is very unlimited. Right. And it ultimately pushes us to put ourselves in these silos where we separate, you know, like whiteness is not actually real and we've been perpetuating this nonsense, black and white forever. And it just separates us and keeps us from not focusing, you know, that the reality is that even your light brothers and sisters out there, most of those folks, all those folks have been victims of colonization.If you think about, you know, what the pilgrims suffered, right before they came over here, they were setting those folks on fire and putting them on crosses for their belief systems. Right. So we've all suffered the tremendous amount of abuse. And then what happens is, you know, the usage is heavy and it's tremendous.And so you, you begin to see. When we notice in our own communities where folks have self-hatred and they treat their own folks worse, than the perceived dominant culture does. Dalia: There's so many levels.When did you become clear on your personal dedication to being liberated? And wanting to liberate othersDre: When I get there, I’ll let you know. Now every day, every day I realize in how many ways I am complicit in the abuse. Just a real simple example, for years, I would teach young men how to survive a police encounter, you know, roll, crack your window, put your hands on the steering wheel, ask for permission, you know, how to survive a police encounter. And during that time, it must've been like 10 years. I was teaching straight, very proud of all this training and never occurred to me that in addition to doing that, I should be dismantling the system that causes me to have to teach Black boys to act differently in a police encounter.Right. So we all completely, I joined the military, right. So, you know, I've been brainwashed just like the rest of us, you know?Charlotte: I feel like that's part of, even that is part of this narrative, right. That we like compare our trauma to each other, to say who was more or less traumatized. And that means I should be in this place or that place on my journey.No, we all respond to trauma differently. And we all have been tried in the same way. We've all been colonized. We've all been traumatized at different degrees. I think it's just like we are we're humans, you know, like we, we may do medicine work or be at a different place in our medicine journey, but like we still come back to the 3D every time and have to deal with the human stuff.Dalia: Yeah. I think that's really helpful because sometimes from the outside, you think that people who seem really far ahead of you in their spiritual journey have an easier time, or maybe we're less traumatized and less brainwashed than youCharlotte: Actually this story circles back to one of your earlier questions that we didn't necessarily answer completely, which was this question of like how you begin a relationship with the medicine or how you find a practitioner or a facilitator or a scent, a retreat center that is going to be safe and support.So we do our virtual BIPOC circles twice a month. We do masterclasses for surely around once a month. And sometimes you do series as well and then in person, we work with Kambo medicine and Rapé which are two legal, sacred earth medicines. And so they support us in being able to support our community and in a way that we can like talk about very publicly because they are legal medicines and Rapé is a medicine that you can begin building a relationship with on your own.So we do virtual ceremonies where we send out medicine to people, and then we gather together on Zoom. Teach them how to administer that medicine and work with it.Dalia: Tell me about the services that you have available right now and what people who live in your area can do with you and what people who are farther away can work with you on.Charlotte: So I think it's a couple of things. It's funny what you said. There's that meme of like a kid trying to step like six steps up the stairs at once. And you know, the first couple of rungs are like meditation drinking a gallon of water a day, breath work, and then like rung six is psychedelics. And he's like trying to hop through.Nothing's a magic pill and that is why we focus a lot on the preparation and integration because it's about taking the downloads that you receive in ceremony and then turning those into daily action, because what we are not encouraging is like constantly running back to the medicine without doing the work, to integrate the lessons.So, yeah, there's question around being committed. Once you answer the call of the medicine, making a commitment like a holistic commitment to your wellbeing is what is going to move the journey along, but like coming to the medicine and then not changing any of your habits or behaviors or belief systems is like not, not going to work.Dalia: Now with that type of plant medicine, the experiences that you're going to have, are they more subtle? And it's more like a supportive aid versus there's some other things, you know, everybody always wants to shortcut and myself included. There's some things that you fantasize that, oh, I'm going to take this thing and we're going to go on this retreat and I'm going to be enlightened by the end of the weekend.Pretty sure that is not a thing ever. What do you find people have the most resistance around? Is it that it's still a journey? That it's still a lot of work or that we have all these really hyped up fictional perceptions of what plant medicine is going to be like?Dre: I mean, we have that example today, right?Just lots of people in the I'm not comfortable with the word dominant, what you see is people doing lots of psychedelics and lots of mushrooms and LSD and all those types of things. And then they create companies that churn out more abuse, right. They, you know, like in silicone valley is it's popular to do, to microdose so that you can work harder, longer, right.And create more apps to create more addictions to us. So clearly doing these medicines without the right set and setting the right guidance is not effective. And the difference, the big difference is in the west, what you have is young people, traditionally experimenting or leading the way in this conversation. Our ancestors, the elders would bring the young ones to a right of passage, when it’s time for you to take on a new role and responsibility as part, a member of this community and they would do ceremony to move them to that next level. So there was a reason, there was a why, and there was a how to do these things, not folks, you know, dropping acid and drinking alcohol.There is no magic. And just like the movie matrix, you know, why don't you take that pill? And you realize how you are complicit in everyone's abuse to include your own trauma that you're reliving daily, the stories that you tell yourself, the poison that you've ingested and that you're living in and the embodiment of that poison over and over again, the person told you you were unloved, unlovable, and unworthy.And now every morning when you wake up, you tell yourself that story over and over again, you reinforce it. But is that the reality? So you could potentially have what they call a rebirth experience, your very first ceremony. Sure, but all that would mean is that you would realize how many more layers of work you need to do.And then there's your ancestors you need to support. Lets say your parents, and their struggles and your ancestors and there's the rest of the community that needs to be healed. We encourage you to take the pill, but it is definitely not a magic pill. It's just the beginning.It's just the beginning of many, many layers of learning how to love yourself, deeply compassionately and love other people deeply compassionately and passionately at the same time.Dalia: .Where are the downloads coming from when you're in ceremony? Is it from you and your subconscious or to some part of you that's connected to something bigger like an ancestor or like a God?Dre: Yeah. So I'm not going to just say, normally this is the first time I've done this. We're not going to answer that question because I think it's like a spoiler, right? Right. I think the west has this tendency of asking what’s right. But in a number of practices, you know, your job is to experience. You spend years watching and listening and observing, right.This is the thing it's about the experience. The experience will, will clarify me so, right, but I don't want to give you too much information. And then you, and then it becomes a, well, I just heard it someplace. So maybe this is how do I know that this is even real for me. Right? Cause I heard it. So, you know, what I can tell you is is that every person who has had a mystical experience with these medicines say it as one of the top five experiences in life. I will tell you for me as a person, the birth of my daughter was a greatest honor and privilege of my life to see her being born. the first five minutes of skin to skin.It was a seminal experience, but sitting down with ayahuasca was the most important decision I've ever made. I would not be half the father I am, or the human I am if it was not from sitting with and surrendering to these medicines.Charlotte: Yeah, thank you for, for saying that joy, because I think this goes back to, you know, the difference of what we see in our integration circles. And one of our key group agreements, not interpreting other people's journeys, but I think we also don't really hear it. Like in circle, people are not really saying, like giving a play by play of what they saw, what they heard, what they, whatever.It's so much more about building this relationship of trust with yourself and the medicine, so that you're open to receiving whatever the medicine brings. And the medicine always brings what you need, not necessarily what you want. It can be challenging, but it does always bring you what you need.Dre: Yeah, for sure.Absolutely. Now I will give you a little hit. Right. So part of what this is about is asking a better question. And the question is what are the habits, beliefs, ideas, and people that no longer serve me, that I'm excited to let go. And what are the habits, beliefs, people, and ideas I'm excited to attract. Notice it's not you doing something like you creating something.It’s simply just allowing the universe to conspire and attract those things into your life. So that question is how do you begin to develop a deep and powerful intention in your ceremony? And then after you have the awareness, then you're now it's time to do the work.Charlotte: Yes. Thank you for saying that. That is what I like distracted myself, but I think also in not answering that question too directly, it's like, we don't want to set expectations because the whole purpose is to come with strong intentions and have no expectation of the medicineDalia: When people are trying to do their integration do they ask themselves those questions again, or look for ways to just get clear on what revelations they think they had?Dre: Great question. So if a person is privileged enough to do a ceremony, part of it is that you come to it with lots of reverence and a little bit of concern.This is a big, it's a big deal. And thoughtfulness a tremendous amount of thoughtfulness in the setting and getting prepared for this thing. And then the goal is to live a life of ceremony, right? Live a life of thoughtfulness and prayer and reverence and connection to yourself, the daily.It's the paying attention to your compulsion's and not reacting to compulsion's when reacting to the thing isn’t the highest best choice for yourself. And to these medicines, we're hoping, again, to understand the name that you chose before your parents were born. The ego part of ourselves, is the self that can be the deceiver. Oh, I really need that sugar or I need alcohol. All those are things because I'm feeling I need to fill a hole. Right. And to take some external source to do it, but then when you're radically in love with yourself, that isn't it. There's no hole to fill, I'm in love.Listen, the only thing I need, continuing to nourish myself and connect with others in creating an environment a nourishing one. That's my role. Okay.Dalia: Is that the purpose of your life, do you feel?Dre: All of our lives. And then, you know, the question, those questions you asked me, I would say you ask that question daily.Like this was the daily inventory. A good morning practice when you get up is to do an inventory of all those aspects of yourself, really beautiful when you realized that you are now not all on autopilot, right? Just going, you know, just living the life that other people told you. And now you're in control of your movie, your story, your experience today, that's really super exciting and also scary too.Because now you can't point things to anybody else.You have to really take new steps. It is nuanced though, because remember in the 3D reality that we live in the are still structures, there is a governmental system that, you know, is quite oppressive towards people of color.And so that is not just here in America, but all over the world. So all this will have to pay attention to that reality as well.Dalia: If there is just one thing you could say to the listeners and they would understand it instantly and carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you want for people to know?Dre: Every one of us has super superpowers. It is true that you're probably never going to tap into those superpowers until you can connect with these plant medicines and surrender. They're older and wiser than you as a homo sapien will ever be, they have knowledge and traditions and teachings enlist them as your oldest relatives.So sit with those relatives and they will open a doorway or pathway to healing and liberation like you never could dream it. We don't need to continue to perpetuate this idea that we are victims. We’re kings and queens that have to step into our power.This is your path.Charlotte: I would say, give yourself the gift of living your life. Dalia: That's really powerful. That was so good. Thank you so much for coming on. How do you think is the best way for people to connect with you?Charlotte: Right now you can find us on Instagram as @thesabinaproject and our site ihttps://www.instagram.com/theancestorproject/https://www.theancestorproject.com/That will be changing soon, but you'll still be able to find us it'll reroute to where you need to go.Dalia: Okay. Perfect. I’ll make sure to put those in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for being here. Dre: Yeah. Thank you for having us. We're honored to be here.fDalia: I love how grounded and realistic the insights and advice Dre and Charlotte offered are. I encourage you to check out The Ancestor Project on social media and also check out their integration service. That's specifically for BIPOC who are working with plant medicine, maybe on their own, and need a place to get the most out of their experiences and to fully integrate what they've learned in their daily life.Remember the only cost for the show is that you share it with others anytime you hear something useful. These days, I'm confident, that is every episode. So feel free to take a screenshot and share that you've been listening to on Body Liberation for All. What was your takeaway from this episode?Remember that Decolonizing Wellness is now available for pre-order and if you're listening to this after February, 2022. It's just available. It's out in the world. Please check out the show notes and go ahead and order your copy. All right. Thanks for joining me. I'll see you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

Chelsea talks to Registered Dietician and Inclusive Wellness coach, Dalia Kinsey about feeling seen, working on really seeing other, getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, white supremacy, listening for understanding, activism and SO MUCH MORE! You can connect with Dalia via her website daliakinsey.com, connect with her on social media via her facebook group @decolonizingwellness, and listen to her podcast, Body Liberation for All on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and buy her book Decolonizing Wellness here!  And don't forget! If you pre-order Chelsea's Book Inexplicably Me and either email her your receipt (chelsea@chelseaaustin.com) or post your receipt and tag her on social media (@chelseaaustinmdw on Instagram @thegirlwithfivenames on Facebook) to receive a personalized thank you, a bookmark, AND 25% off Chelsea's Flip The Script course in 2022!

Ian Kumamoto (he/they) is a journalist, a queer person and a Chinese-Mexican who is active on social media sharin what's actually going on in his part of the world and serving us truth. Ian was born and raised in Mexico and speaks fluent Spanish and moved to the US  and spent some time in their childhood in Spain. He graduated BA. in Print Journalism and Globral Liberal Studies from NYU in 2019 and shortly after, co-founded, Chaos+Comrades, a magazine by and for queer people of color.In addition to their freelance work, they are current a writer for Mic, covering  health, identity, sex, drugs, money, career, and travel.This episode we discuss:🌈 Finding your own unique way to get through educational systems that don't support you🌈Writing in English as multilingual person🌈 Love-hate relationship with social media platforms🌈Reclaiming your identity outside of racialized sexual objectification as a queer man of color🌈Healing race based body dysmorphiaEpisode ResourcesOrder your copy of Decolonizing Wellness and grab exclusive access to my author lead bookclub  https://www.daliakinsey.com/bookConnect with Ian KumamotoTikTok: @chino_cholohttps://instagram.com/ian.kumahttps://www.jikumamoto.com/https://chaosandcomrades.com/--- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/bodyliberation/messageSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/bodyliberation/support Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe

Today's podcast take over episode we are hearing from Dalia. (No pronouns non binary) An advocate for the QTBIPOC community and more. This episode is an experience not just a valuable episode. This is an episode you can come back often as a meditative retreat too. If this is a taste of the value the book will be - what a gift that will be. In Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation, registered dietitian and nutritionist Dalia Kinsey will help readers to improve their health without restriction, eliminate stress around food and eating, and turn food into a source of pleasure instead of shame. A road map to body acceptance and self-care for queer people of color, Decolonizing Wellness is filled with practical eating practices, journal prompts, affirmations, and mindfulness tools. Ultimately, decolonizing nutrition is essential not only to our personal well-being but to our community's well-being and to the possibility of greater social transformation. https://www.daliakinsey.com/book (Here is the link to purchase book today! ) https://www.daliakinsey.com/about (More about Dalia.) https://www.daliakinsey.com/privatecoaching (Work with Dalia.) Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/zimpzon/calm (https://uppbeat.io/t/zimpzon/calm) License code: C8RVVURUZSRRZXIP

TRIGGER WARNING: This episode is a really heavy discussion about discrimination and racism.  Please take your self-care into account and skip this episode if necessary.  I promise I won't be offended.  If you've been a long time listener you know I don't have authors on the show (or at least it is really rare), but I've made a big exception in this case because of the topic matter.  Dalia Kinsey's book is written specifically for the QTBIPOC community.  It discusses the marginalization and discrimination that QTBIPOC people face in wellness spaces.  While I am cis-gendered and white, I realize that this is an important topic and one that deserves a spotlight.  I brought Dalia on because we need to be hearing these voices.  You may also recognize Dalia's name.  Dalia Kinsey has been on the show before.  We discussed Body Respect by Lindo Bacon and Lucy Aphramor.  In that discussion, Dalia talked about writing a book and Decolonizing Wellness is the full circle to that discussion!  I was sent a digital copy of the book and it is truly spectacular.  Here are a few of the things we discussed:The full circle momentWhy this book is importantWriting about traumaYou can't buy your way out of racismRacism is everywhereQTBIPOC stress and why it is harmfulThe problem with Gone with the WindCentering yourself and honouring your emotionsWhat decolonizing wellness meansThe importance of helping people answer, "but how?" when it comes to self-lovePositive thinking has its limitsWhat transformation does this book support?What allies can get out of this bookKeep reading everyone!Dalia's LinksDalia's websiteDecolonizing WellnessFat Girl Book Club LinksYour Better Body Image ChecklistFB groupPatreonFat Girl Book Club Pod IG

Our next guest is not only the author of a book we both can't wait to read - Decolonizing Wellness - but also talks specifically to those individuals who are at the intersection of BIPOC and LGBTQ identities. When you think about bodies, beauty, and self-care, that's often a group that gets lost, not only in popular consciousness but also in media portrayals of what is considered desirable or attractive. And, when you're struggling to be seen, or fit in, or even survive - this can be devastating. This was yet again one of those conversations that we didn't want to end, and each of us walked away with different ways to think about not only our own bodies, but what we put in them, how we interact with those around us with regard to wellness - especially kids, and ways in which we can better support and understand the struggle of marginalized individuals when it comes to preconceived notions of health and beauty. Have questions, comments, or concerns? Email us at hello@dearwhitewomen.com What to listen for: How cisgender, heteronomative, Eurocentric standards of beauty that we see in mass media add to the body image concerns of queer people Additional challenges to body positivity when it comes to people who are both BIPOC and LGBTQ+ Knowing and listening to our own bodies better, including what we put into them Kids, nutrition, and diet culture About Dalia: Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian and Inclusive Wellness coach with over 10 years of experience working at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice in public and private sectors. Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia leverages years of experience creating safer spaces for clients to help teams build communication skills that create a solid foundation for inclusion and belonging. Host of the Body Liberation for All podcast and author of Decolonizing Wellness: How to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation; A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Self-Love, Dalia continually creates wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable, individuals that hold multiple marginalized identities. Dalia's work can be found at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ Connect with Dalia: Instagram    Where to order your copy of Dear White Women: Let's Get (Un)comfortable Talking About Racism: https://thecollectivebook.studio/dear-white-women Like what you hear?  Don't miss another episode and subscribe! Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter – and even more opinions and resources if you join our email list.    

We are so excited that Dalia Kinsey is joining us today on Chatting Over Chowder! Dalia and I met when I was offered an opportunity to cohost a Clubhouse with them for WOC Podcasters. Since the first time we chatted, I knew I wanted to have them on the show! Before we begin, things you should know: Dalia's voice is BUTTER! Secondly, they have a new book that you should purchase immediate: Decolonizing Wellness. Now, let's get to the chatting. Join us as we chat about: How a 7 year old child has the sales skills we all need Sharoline had the entrepreneur spirit for design since she was a wee lass Dalia's very early experience with audio How they accidentally was drawing the wrong people into their space Responding to trauma in the workforce Why everyone needs to know Race isn't real The different aspects of being black in this country Where you can find Dalia:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daliakinseyrd/ Website: https://www.daliakinsey.com/links Podcast: Body Liberation for All Book: Decolonizing Wellness Free Guide Decode Your Hunger Podcasts that Dalia recommends: Couples Therapy Nosy Neighbors  

The Womxn of Color Summit® is an equitable community organization focused on creating brave and inclusionary spaces for womxn and non-binary people of color to share stories and knowledge, as well as make impactful change. The Womxn of Color Summit was co-founded by Harpinder Mann (she/her), a Sikh-Buddhist Punjabi-American yoga and meditation teacher currently living on Tongva Land, and Irene Lo (she/her), a Taiwanese-Canadian Asana Facilitator and Tarot Reader who lives on the unceded territory of the Coast Salish People. Learn more about the Womxn of Color Summit here Check out the Womxn of Color Summit Instagram: @womxnofcolorsummit Follow Harper on Intsagram: @harpindermannyoga Follow Irene on Instagram: @ireneyogaflow . . . Through The Institute of Integrative Nutrition, you can become a certified health coach to transform your relationship with food and health, live your dreams, earn while you learn, and embark on a new future. Receive $2,000 off when you pay in full (or $1,500 off payment plans) by following this referral link here, or by mentioning my name, Samantha Nagel. Apply for 1:1 Coaching Follow me on Instagram @empowered.spirituality I am a self-employed team of one and have a mission to create content and resources for everyone at all levels. If my work has helped you in some way, and you feel called to give an energetic exchange, or you would just like to do an act of kindness, buy me a cup of coffee! :) This podcast is for educational purposes only. The host claims no responsibility to any person or entity for any liability, loss, or damage caused or alleged to be caused directly or indirectly as a result of the use, application, or interpretation of the information presented herein. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/empoweredspirituality/message

We live under so much stress and exhaustion because of systemic oppression and racism. Up until 2020 and the outspoken racial tension in the U.S.A., everybody was telling us this wasn't real. That was a lie.  What's worst, is when you'd seek out safe spaces to heal only to encounter that same feeling of oppression. Is decolonizing wellness the answer?Dalia Kinsey and author of the upcoming book, Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation, and this week's guest thinks it will help. But does it mean to decolonize wellness? And what does that look like? Join us in an open discussion on how we can begin to heal the wellness space and reclaim what is ours from a cultural and indigenous perspective. Show notes:  https://hellawellwithdanielle.com/podcast/decolonizing-wellness/ ‎Be sure to also join the Hella Well With Danielle newsletter for my biggest ah-ha moments from each episode and special announcements. Sign up at http://hellawellwithdanielle.com/join-wellness-revolution/.Thanks so much for listening! If you like this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review. 

Alright friends, today we have Navi Gill on the pod. Navi is a holistic wellness educator who uses her ancestral knowledge of Yoga, Ayurveda and meditation to bring new light into the lives of her clients and her community. Not only does she bring light, she sheds light on how the wellness industry, although well intentioned, may be contributing to colonialism and therefore causing harm. A lot of our conversation focuses on the often unseen underbelly of an industry dedicated to making people well. Navi pulls back the curtain and asks, who is this wellness for? Who is missing from the industry, and why?This conversation from from Navi's upbringing, her teenage years navigating multiple worlds and identities, to finding her place in the world of Ayurveda and her ancestral medicine. We are so fortunate to have had this conversation with Navi. She is a lot of fun, and has some very powerful and important insights for us!We hope you enjoy this episode! Listen on Spotify, Apple or wherever you find your podcasts. And don't forget to follow and subscribe so you don't miss out on future episodes.Z&D​​Looking for a little more? Visit our Website & follow us on InstagramEpisode Resources:Navi Gill: Instagram / WebsiteConsultation: Ayurwellness Lifestyle Consultation by Navi GillArticle: "Finding Your Why" by Navi Gill Article: "The Land Where my Heart Lies" by Navi GillVideo: How to Connect to Your Authentic Self (Navi Gill)Podcast Episode: Spirituality + Activism with Navi Gill Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dayanara has  made our health her business, literally. Her company and brand iWoke Wellness brings equity and healthcare to Black and brown people, who have been disproportionately, grossly, and systematically prevented access to good healthcare. She talks to us today about decolonizing wellness, achieving alignment in our life, and how to be more fully present with ourselves and those around us.iWoke Wellness Links: https://linktr.ee/IwokewellnessiWoke Wellness Instagram

Hey Sis!  I've been gone for a few weeks resting, regrouping, and prepping for a dope new season!  This season we're exploring topics like cannabis as self-care, the power of traditional medicine modalities such as acupuncture, real body positivity, conscious parenting, sisterhood, the complexities of modern relationships, self-image, and so much more.  As always, I’ll share my struggles and triumphs as I navigate my own wellness journey  along with wellness finds in the On my radar segment.  This season, I'm also debuting a new book segment called Be Well Sis Reads where I’ll give you my 2 cents on a book and whether or not it’s a must-read.  Look- I may have been gone for a second- but I’ve been working tirelessly to bring you an even better experience! Looking forward to chatting with again with you soon! In the meantime, be kind to yourself and Be well, Sis.  *Start your Audible trial now!   Join the tribe on IG!  Sign up for our newsletter :)    Be Well, Sis.

ep. #21 In todays episode, Ashley interviews Tania Laisuna, David Coral, and Lorena Rodriguez. Tania and David call in from the Putumayo region of Columbia where they live, and work on a community project that fosters the continuation of ancestral knowledge and the transition to a more sustainable way of living.They weave an exploration of "buen vivir", an indigenous concept from South America that expands colonized perspective of wellness. This episode of full of beauty and life! We hope you enjoy :)This episode includes full translation in Spanish and English!¡Este episodio incluye traducción completa en español e inglés! Topics we touch on:Broadening our understanding of wellness to include cycles of the earth and ethical codes of community and relationship to ecosystem. This concept of wellness, or buen vivre, as intrinsically related to our contact with all living beings Morning practice of greeting yourself The interrelationship between how inner waters and outer waters History as a living thingTrue wellness integrates history of place and of peopleGiving back to the people are were mistreated and harmed is part of wellnessBuilding relationships to native plants as a pathway to reconnectionBuilding relationships with the indigenous people and stories where plants medicines originate.Sacred medicines like tobacco, chicha, cocoa, alcohol Circling as a process for inquiry and as a way to build relationships with medicine  The continued effort it takes to heal and create wellness. Their home, life and project:https://www.larealidad.org/Instagram:  @eslabon_la_realidad/PayPal Donations to the land and Community Project!Nuh Jay Music:https://nuhjay.bandcamp.com/Kun Music:https://soundcloud.com/kun-hilando-el-sonido......................................................................Ashley's websiteAshley's InstagramAshley's Water Mama CircleMallika's websiteMallika's InstagramMallika's Embodied Therapeutic Art ProcessSupport the show (https://www.thewildandwise.com/donate)

Welcome to Self-Mastered 2021! Dalia Kinsey and new co-host Stefanie Giannini discuss the future of the Self-Mastered podcast. We break down how we plan to combine our passions of wellness, self-help, and leadership to help listeners work towards a life of success and meaning. Join this episode to get inspired for your future. Reach out and let us know what your personal goals for 2021 are. Self-Mastered (originally School Nutrition Dietitian) has come to an end Keep in touch with Dalia Listen to my new show Body Liberation for All https://www.youtube.com/daliakinsey Purchase a copy of Decolonizing Wellness https://www.instagram.com/i.v.a.t.i/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/selfmastered/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/selfmastered/support

My guest this episode is Lauren Reid, PhD.  Dr. Reid is an Assistant Professor of Counseling and coordinates the multicultural curriculum for the Graduate Program in Counseling at Arcadia University in Pennsylvania. Her research uses a mixed methods design to explore the relationship between cultural factors and coping of Black and Brown folx. She also conducts research on multicultural training and counselors' development. Dr. Reid is a licensed psychologist; her private practice specializes in working with biracial/multiracial people and women of color.This conversation centered around her research and work with biracial clients but dovetailed into topics like decolonizing therapy, disrupting systems of oppression and white supremacy, motherhood, and even President Obama. Mentioned in this Episode:The Gifts of Imperfection, by Dr. Brene BrownDecolonizing Therapy, Dr. Jennifer MullanInclusive TherapistsTherapy for Black GirlsSonya Renee Taylor, The Body Is Not An Apology: The Power of Radical Self-LovePrentis Hemphill Podcast, Finding Our Way

The last in the current series, published July 4 2019, this is an incredibly fitting episode to end on. It features an in-depth interview with Janet MacGillivray and Eryn Wise of Seeding Sovereignty, an organization that rose out of the encampments at Standing Rock with a mission to amplify the voices and the stories of indigenous American youth. Janet, and environmental lawyer formerly affiliated with the EPA, begins by sharing the origin story of Seeding Sovereignty, and why this was a call to find truly impactful and sustainable ways to do her work in the world. We then move into a wide-ranging conversation about the true meaning of healing, looking at how modern wellness communities and practices are often doing more harm than good—and how to address this. In this episode Eryn and Ruby also discuss: Why it is time to work in partnership with indigenous peoples to tackle environmental issues What it means to be a spiritual activist The power of storytelling and deep listening as tools for healing Why decolonization begins with the individual—and means acknowledging the atrocities of the past How to engage respectfully with indigenous healing traditions How social media feeds narcissistic thinking that says some people are better than others Ways listeners can support the work of Seeding Sovereignty Discover more about Seeding Sovereignty and their work HERE and follow them on Instagram @seedingsovereignty