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7 episodes with dalia kinsey
4 episodes with dalia kinsey
2 episodes with dalia kinsey
2 episodes with dalia kinsey
Episode 120. I've said it before and I will say it again, I am often profoundly changed by the impact of the conversations I have on this podcast. I still remember quotes and concepts from people I interviewed a year ago, and I still sometimes re-listen to the conversations to remind myself of the lessons I learned from them. This conversation with Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, from May 2022 was extra special though. And I'm actually having a hard time putting into words why exactly that is. I think part of it is Dalia's presence, and the generosity and vulnerability that is shared, including the process from behind the scenes of this week's. Beyond that, however, Dalia's compassion for others, myself included, who have very much missed the mark with wellness, health, and lack of diversity in related fields, made this conversation all the more meaningful. Inviting Dalia on the podcast was important to me because I truly believe that moving towards true wellness and health means we must un-learn a lot of what we have been taught. Not only about what is healthy from a weight-centric model, but so much of what we have been taught about race, sexuality, and generally how so many of our systems, educational models, and structures are set up to serve white people, not persons of marginalized backgrounds. I'll admit: I have total imposter syndrome when I talk about or write about topics related to diversity. I'm afraid I'll mess things up, like say the wrong things or offending someone (my deepest fear). But I know deep down it's a privilege to be able to choose to learn about and talk about these topics or not, and I am working on continuing to choose the (typically mild) discomfort, so I can continue to learn and grow. I hope you will listen in on this conversation and hear the incredible gift that Dalia has given to the world by sharing this book with the world. I truly believe what I said, that I think this book truly benefits anyone who wants to learn about wellness and inclusion as an individual or as a healthcare provider. I hope wherever you are in your journey of learning about diversity and where we in the US and other countries have greatly missed the mark, that you will remain open, curious, and humble and continue to be open to learning more. And remember that (as I often have to remind myself) you don't need to know it all, you just need to ask question and listen. There's so much value to be gained from learning about the amazingly diverse experiences of humans and I'm incredibly grateful that Dalia shared with us via Decolonizing Wellness, but also that I was able to have this incredible conversation as well. What To Expect in This Interview: We cover the following topics: How Dalia came to doing this work, and the courage it took for Dalia to write Decolonizing Wellness, and the incredibly vulnerable process of doing so Some examples of the many ways that health and wellness spaces miss the mark when it comes to persons of diverse and/or marginalized identities What Dalia means by “When you queer anything it becomes more inclusive” (and why I've never been more convinced of this after talking to Dalia and reading Decolonizing Wellness) What Dalia wishes more people understood about these topics And much more! Who is Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD? Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice, continually creating wellness tools and resources t...
Episode 112. It's official. It is here. This week's episode is all about the new podcast, The Innovative Therapist Podcast. This name and shifting of the podcast reflects my internal shifts, and who I am becoming and permission for all of us to think more creatively with regards to how we think about healing. In this episode, I will tell you what to expect in the new podcast. What will be different and what will be the same. I will also share how I am different, and some of the experiences and people that led to those shifts. I cannot wait to share it with you! What to Expect in this episode: My reason for changing the name of the podcast to The Innovative Therapist Podcast Who it is geared towards (FYI: it isn't just for therapists, but for anyone interested in thinking deeply and creatively about innovative approaches to healing) Why I am probably not going to be recording in the same space anymore, and why How the shifts you see in this podcast and other aspects of my business reflect internal shifts happening in me, and me learning to listen to and trust my body more and more (aka "walking the walk," if you will) What to expect in the future (e.g., more interviews with therapists who have paved their way and began doing meaningful work outside of the traditional 1 on 1 client work, among other creative guests and solo topics), more interviews with therapists and other professionals willing to challenge the status quo and question our traditional way of doing things (e.g., like my conversation with Dr. Adia Gooden a long time ago where we talked about sharing about ourselves as psychologists and how it's so different than what we learned to do in training) The book I'm reading right now, Decolonizing Therapy by Dr. Jennifer Mullan, and what I'm learning from it so far and how it's helping me think creatively about our role as helping professionals and some of the reasons the traditional therapy model never felt quite right to me (and how this book is adding to the learning I got from reading Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey, Check out my conversation with Dalia Kinsey to explore this) How and why I'll be continuing to explore evidence-based approaches as well as other "alternative" healing modalities (with less official research backing, but equally as important explore with an open mind) What I'm thinking in terms of the motivation questions at the end, and the music for the podcast, and how I'm letting a lot of this evolve naturally (and how incredibly different that is from my prior approaches) Things coming up in my world that I'm excited about! The Innovative Therapist Retreat Oct 7-10th in Norton Shores, Michigan, Local Outdoor Therapist Meetups in West Michigan, sign up for updates here! DrHondorp.com/Meetups, and other community building online offerings coming soon! Other Mentors & Resources Mentioned Natalie Miller and The Mind Witchery podcast Randi Rubenstein and Mastermind Parenting What is The Innovative Therapist Podcast All About? The Innovative Therapist podcast is for you if you want honest conversations about what works and what doesn't for learning to trust our bodies and doing deeply healing work (for our clients and ourselves) It's about having honest conversations with therapists and other professionals about their journeys and how they learned to listen to themselves and pursue work that felt deeply meaningful and energizing to them “I know I shouldn't focus on weight loss, but…” (Polarized Parts Alert!) Are you feeling unsure how to guide a client who wants to improve their relationship with food, but also wants to lose weight? We offer this super cool transformational exercise that can help your clients work to understand their polarized parts, build self-trust and listen to their intuition! This free PDF gives step-by-step instructions for doing one of my all-time favorite exercises (based on Internal Family System...
Guest: Dalia Kinsey (registered dietician and nutritionist) Dalia Kinsey, registered dietitian and nutritionist, joins Auntie Vice to talk about decolonizing health. She speaks to the experience of being a bigger bodied, queer, woman both in school and as a health care consumer. She lives with Grave's Disease (an autoimmune condition) and worked for years to figure out what was wrong. Her experience with hostile and dismissive providers drove her to pursue work to understand nutrition science and work to decolonize it to better serve marginalized communities. Sites and Socials DaliaKinsey.com Instagram YouTube
The Black Mind Garden: ReMap Your Mind! Create a Life You Design
SHOW NOTES In this week's Mind ReMapping Moment, Dalia Kinsey, a fellow black and an expert dietician, joins me. We are discussing Pronoun Mislabeling and Bringing a Space of Grace. Dalia and I had an amazing behind-the-scenes conversation during her last visit, and the feedback we received was overwhelmingly positive. So, we decided to bring her back for another engaging discussion. Dalia's work centers around BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ individuals, acknowledging the immense impact of chronic stress on their health and well-being. She emphasizes the importance of self-care and stress management, especially for those who face marginalization and discrimination in society. Her work aims to help people enjoy life despite the challenges they may encounter. Today, our focus is on the complex topic of pronouns and gender identity. Dalia shares her personal journey, including a period when she didn't use any pronouns. We explore the discomfort and challenges that come with mislabeling pronouns and names, highlighting the significance of setting boundaries and learning to respect one another. We dive deep into the fear of making mistakes, the trauma associated with mislabeling, and the need for grace and understanding when errors occur. We also discuss the broader societal context, where visibility for transgender individuals is often met with resistance. Despite these challenges, we emphasize that inclusivity and acceptance are essential and inevitable. We reflect on how similar dynamics of erasure and resistance play out in other marginalized communities, such as immigrants. Join us as we navigate the complex terrain of pronouns, gender identity, and the broader quest for inclusivity and understanding. About Dalia Kinsey Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian, host of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A LGBQTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. Dalia speaks, leads workshops, and provides tailored group and individual coaching. Dalia owns Kinsey Wellness and Communications, which teaches body-led eating as a mindfulness tool and joy in the way of eating. Her passion is to help people understand that if you feel like your body is not the way you want it to be or feel out of control around food, you have not failed. Connect with Dalia Kinsey via the following: Website: https://www.daliakinsey.com/ Email: hello@daliakinsey.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daliakinsey Follow Dr. Maiysha on social media www.facebook.com/DrMaiysha www.instagram.com/DrMaiysha www.twitter.com/DrMaiysha www.YouTube.com/DrMaiysha Hosted by: Dr. Maiysha Clairborne Check out my TEDxtalk https://youtu.be/iOboT5uRhXU Ready for the next level in your life? Join the Movement! Become a part of the Mind ReMapping Nation, an exclusive community that empowers your growth & accountability. Go to www.MindReMappingNation.com Interested to learn Mind ReMapping? Have you thought about becoming a coach? You can! Attend our next Mind ReMapping LIVE Training in Atlanta, and learn the tools to remap your mind in this transformational NLP/Hypnosis and Coach Certification training. Visit www.mindremappingacademy.com or schedule an interest call at www.remapmymind.today --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/remapyourmind/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/remapyourmind/support
Episode 100: Celebrating a Journey of Inspiring Insights and Life-Changing Quotes If I had a dollar for every time I thought about or referenced something one of my podcast guests said, I'd be a very rich woman. Over the course of this podcast, I've had the privilege of meeting and learning from some truly incredible humans, and today, I'm thrilled to celebrate them by sharing some of my favorite moments and quotes with you. Buckle up, because this is going to be a fun one! In this special episode, we'll dive into the heart of our conversations, unpacking some of the most impactful topics and quotes that have stuck with me, and you, over these 100 episodes. Join Our Upcoming Workshop! Sign up to join today! What to Expect in this Interview First up, we'll explore the nuanced world of weight and health with some key quotes from the wonderful Jenn Radke of the Fat Girl Book Club podcast and Marie-Pier from The Balanced Dietitian. Their insights shed light on the importance of understanding the complexities of body weight and health without judgment or oversimplification. Next, we'll jump into the complex (and yet also simple) realm of Intuitive Eating. Samantha Barash and Dr. Kim Daniels will share their wisdom, breaking down what Intuitive Eating truly is and what it isn't. You'll discover when it works wonders and why it might not be the right approach for everyone. In the section on challenging the status quo, we'll hear diverse perspectives on courageously questioning the norms and biases in research. Dr. Michelle Segar, the author of No Sweat and The Joy Choice, will share her process with what it took to share her groundbreaking work that challenged ideas what "counts" for exercise. Then, Dalia Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness, will shed light on the ways research often overlooks the experiences of marginalized folks, particularly people of color. My personal favorite topic comes next – navigating the nuance of eating and weight concerns. You won't want to miss the profound insights shared by my guests on how to approach this field both as individuals and professionals. It's a transformative section that will enrich your understanding and practice. We have a star-studded lineup of guests that you'll get to hear from in this section: Dr. Jillian Murphy will kick things off, and her interview impacted me so deeply that I've already played it twice on the podcast before today. Shadoe Ball will share her personal story about the challenges of implementing Intuitive Eating, providing a relatable and eye-opening perspective. Amy Braden opens up about her journey through weight-inclusive care and Intuitive Eating, following her decision to pursue weight loss surgery. Jessi Holden, MS, RD, will discuss why she advises her Intuitive Eating clients to sometimes unfollow Intuitive Eating social media accounts, sparking an intriguing conversation. Dr. Yami of The Veggie Doctor Radio will engage in thought-provoking discussions about food addiction, vegan diets, and navigating the worlds of Intuitive Eating/Health at Every Size and Whole Food Plant-Based living. Dr. Robyn Pashby will share her perspective on the term "obesity" and how it can be used to reduce weight bias, rather than perpetuate it. Racheal Rickabaugh will take us through her experiences with an obesity medicine doctor, leading to a profound turning point in her health journey. Last but not least, we'll hear from Dr. Adia Gooden, who will share insights into achieving unconditional self-worth and navigating the path to personal growth. This interview is packed with valuable wisdom, so get ready to be inspired and uplifted! Many of these conversations have stuck with me, and I still find myself revisiting them when needed. So, join me as we celebrate the incredible journey of 100 episodes and the lasting impact these guests have made in the lives of me and countless listeners.
When I read the book “Decolonizing Wellness, A QTBIPOC Centered to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image and Achieve Body Liberation”, I know Dalia needed to be on the podcast! After this interview I wanted more, and you better believe Dalia will be back, as the interview could have gone for so much longer. […] The post Decolonizing Wellness, with Dalia Kinsey RD, LD appeared first on Registered Dietitian Nutritionist, Intuitive Eating Columbus OH.
On this episode of the School of Healing, I had the opportunity to talk with Dalia Kindsey about health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC communities. Dalia shares her personal story of discrimination and how not being seen fully led her to guide and help others in the wellness industry. Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC communities, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice, continually creating wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable, individuals that hold multiple marginalized identities.CONNECT WITH DALIA:Dalia's work can be found at https://www.daliakinsey.com/GET FREE RESOURCES FROM DALIA HERE!:https://www.daliakinsey.com/freebundleLI: Connect with Dalia hereSupport the showIMPORTANT LINKS AND RESOURCES Get my NEW BOOK! Learn more about Move and Still LLC - https://movexstill.com/ New Course: GROUNDED - https://bit.ly/3LXfuU7 CONNECT WITH ME: IG - https://bit.ly/3ZmwMwT LI- https://bit.ly/3FSkl5i A GIFT FOR YOU! Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the show on Apple Podcasts to be entered into a drawing to receive my new book FREE! I will be picking one winner monthly. Just send me the screenshot at hello@movestill.com to enter.
On this episode of the “Better Than Fine” podcast, host Darlene Marshall is joined by featured guest, author, activist, and Registered Dietician, Dalia Kinsey. Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness, shares a vision of nutrition as self-care and personal empowerment, rejecting diet culture, and the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice. The most trusted name in fitness is now expanding into the wellness world. Become an NASM Certified Wellness Coach and you'll be able to guide and motivate clients to make lasting changes through mental and emotional well-being, recovery, and more. https://bit.ly/3B3lnIL
The Black Mind Garden: ReMap Your Mind! Create a Life You Design
SHOW NOTES In this week's Mind ReMapping Moment, Dalia Kinsey, a fellow black and an expert dietician, joins me. We are discussing how systemic oppression impacts body image. · How do you fix your food? · Where is the part that we can celebrate, and what part of what we are doing doesn't serve us anymore? · How are things functioning in your body? These and many more await you in this week's special episode with Dalia, Owner of Kinsey Wellness and Communications. In this episode, she will share how she empowers people to use nutrition as a self-care and personalized tool to reclaim their well-being. Today we will learn about dealing with our relationship with food regarding dieting. Trusting ourselves is foundational. How we are treated as children and the messaging we have been exposed to influences our relationship with our body, our relationship with control, our relationship with food, and our ability to trust ourselves. Trusting ourselves is foundational to having a friendly relationship with food. All about Diet Dieting has been put forth as a healing tool, something that is going to make you better. When so much research clearly shows that all dieting can do is hurt you. It helps you become obsessed with food, and in the end, it leads to weight gain. It is not that it has never worked for anybody in the world. It is that it only works for some people. What it does successfully do is cause weight gain; it cause more body dissatisfaction. Ideal Weight as Dominant Culture Norms People step on the scale daily because weight has become this dominant cultural norm of ideal weight and useless BMI. All these things become background conversations in our heads when we look at our bodies. We have an internal discussion about that, and then it drives our behavior; it drives how we eat: whether we skip a meal or have the meal. Give yourself more compassion, and understand that there are two things we are trying to hold here: your body is wise, and it is best to let it take the reins, and you are in a pressure cooker, and what is right for you can change over time, and that is OK. About Dalia Kinsey Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian, host of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. Dalia speaks, leads workshops, and provides tailored group and individual coaching. Dalia owns Kinsey Wellness and Communications, which teaches body-led eating as a mindfulness tool and joy in the way of eating. Her passion is to help people understand that if you feel like your body is not the way you want it to be or feel out of control around food, you have not failed. Connect with Dalia Kinsey via the following: Website: https://www.daliakinsey.com/ Email: hello@daliakinsey.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daliakinsey Follow Dr. Maiysha on social media www.facebook.com/DrMaiysha www.instagram.com/DrMaiysha www.twitter.com/DrMaiysha www.YouTube.com/DrMaiysha Hosted by: Dr. Maiysha Clairborne Check out my TEDxtalk https://youtu.be/iOboT5uRhXU Ready for the next level in your life? Join the Movement! Become a part of the Mind ReMapping Nation, an exclusive community that empowers your growth & accountability. Go to www.MindReMappingNation.com Interested to learn Mind ReMapping? Have you thought about becoming a coach? You can! Attend our next Mind ReMapping LIVE Training in Atlanta, and learn the tools to remap your mind in this transformational NLP/Hypnosis and Coach Certification training. Visit www.mindremappingacademy.com or schedule an interest call at www.remapmymind.today --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/remapyourmind/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/remapyourmind/support
Join us in this episode as we soak in all angles of difficult yet important conversations from decolonized wellness, loving your body, being queer, the process of coming out and how important being in community and truly connecting with people eye to eye is the way to do business that feels good for the BIPOC business owners. Dalia extensively shared with me how to be a true and active ally to LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC and how you can address someone when you're not sure - hint: just be human. Lastly, Dalia walked me through the process of coming out and how you can find safety during this phase of your life and how important mental wellness is especially during this time. Here's what was covered in this episode: Dalia's identities and how Dalia wants to be addressed Decolonized wellness and loving your body Food Diary Keeping as form of awareness What to say to LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC when unsure how to address them Difference of Sex and Sexuality Process of coming out Mental Wellness for LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC Doing business like a human being Read more: https://coachunapologetic.com/alignedandunapologeticpodcast/queerandunapologetic
Join us as we chat about the things in life that seem to be the most difficult to shop for: bathing suits, shoes, glasses, and life partners! Sandy's been ruminating a bit about the word “should” and we decide that we should definitely talk about it a bit more. Finally we debate whether you should eat the most delicious thing on your plate first or if you should save the best for last. What do you do? **Show Notes** Podcast we mentioned: We Can Do Hard Things Book we mentioned: Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey
Is closure a myth? Do we have to be emotionally open with ALL the people we know? What is a healthy amount of acceptance? These are the questions that Big Wind, Dalia, Julia, Kiam and I talked about navigating. I think we all ask these questions when trying to trust after harm and experiencing grief. What we don't always talk about is how very human and natural these experiences and thoughts are.Big Wind(they/them) was born at the headwaters of the Missouri River to A Northern Arapaho mother and Gros Ventre father in Great Falls, Montana. Big Wind was raised on the Wind River Reservation in Wyoming and enjoys being outdoors, hiking, and swimming in the nearest water way. As a Indigenous Two Spirit, they believe in the art of balancing both masculine and feminine energies, and how taping into that power, can lead to a more balanced approach to accountability and transformative justice. Dalia Kinsey(no pronouns) is a Registered Dietitian and creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, a show dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC folx. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the QTBIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture (which is rooted in white supremacy) and teaches folks how to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool.Julia Mallory(she/they) is a storyteller and grief worker working with a range of mediums from text to textiles. Their latest book, Survivor's Guilt is an archive of survivorship that chronicles generational grief through photographs, poetry, and prose. She is also the founder of the creative container, Black Mermaids and serves as the Senior Poetry Editor for Raising Mothers. Their work can be found in Barrelhouse, The Offing, the Black Speculative Arts Movement exhibition "Curating the End of the World: RED SPRING”, Stellium Literary Magazine, MadameNoire, and elsewhere. Their short, experimental film, Grief is the Glitch, premiered this spring on the film festival circuit. Kiam Marcelo Junio(they/them) (b. Philippines) is a multimedia artist, holistic wellness coach, and a US Navy veteran. As an artist, Kiam explores themes of corporeality, identity, and time. Their work eludes rigid definitions of discipline, exploring and expressing through all five senses. Kiam also coaches creative professionals committed to developing healthy habits, a confident presence, and fulfilling relationships. Their mission is rooted in helping people create changes in their inner and outer worlds by developing deep self-knowledge, sustainable self-love, and authentic self-expression. Kiam envisions a world where artists lead the way, forging new paths for future generations. CONTACT GUESTIG @BigWindRiver | Paypal AKABigWind T Website daliakinsey.substack.comIG @thejuliamallory | CashApp $Blackmermaids | Website blackmermaids.comIG @iamkiam| Venmo @iamkiam | Website mahalhealingarts.comPRODUCED BY: GoddessSUPPORT SSChttps://www.paypal.com/paypalme/GoddessSowerOfSeedsFOLLOW SSCSunseedcommunity.comFB/IG: @SunseedcommunitySubscribe to SSC here
What was your relationship to food and body image like in college? Many clients report their disordered eating behaviors began or worsened during the college years. And many did not receive care or support during this time which is why, in part, they still struggle with food and body image today. What is the impact of diet culture on college students? In what ways does the college environment impact students from marginalized communities differently? Especially for those in bigger bodies who were routinely prescribed and praised for their (often harmful) weight loss efforts during the college years: what are ways you can heal from disordered eating, even years after you've graduated? In today's episode, Melissa interviews Dr. Hortencia Jimenéz, professor, sociologist, and health coach to discuss her perspectives on: What it means to consider eating disorders and anti-diet work from an anti-oppressive lens How generational diet trauma gets tangled up with college educational systems and environments How to make meaning of your own disordered eating behaviors during your college years so you can experience healing today 3 ways community care can impact and support individuals at risk for eating disorders and disordered eating in the college setting Episode Resources: Follow Dr. Hortencia Jimenéz on Instagram @drhortencajimenez Support Hortencia's work on Venmo with a donation: https://account.venmo.com/u/Hortencia-Jimenez-4 Read about White Supremacy Culture: https://www.dismantlingracism.org/uploads/4/3/5/7/43579015/okun_-_white_sup_culture.pdf Hortencia mentions the book “Decolonizing Wellness” by Dalia Kinsey - available on Amazon Join the Break the Diet Cycle Podcast Community: @break.the.diet.pod Connect with Melissa on Instagram: @no.more.guilt This episode was sponsored by No More Guilt with Melissa Landry Get the 3 Steps to Eat without Guilt Guide: https://mailchi.mp/d9207e0baf90/nomoreguiltguide Want coaching support for a life of No More Guilt? Right now, Melissa is only accepting 1:1 clients. You can apply at www.melissalandrynutrition.com or message her on Instagram @no.more.guilt to learn more. Group coaching programs are currently on hold, but Melissa may entertain bringing back groups in time for 2023 for the right set of women really ready to do this work! If you are interested in staying in the loop of any upcoming groups, you can put your name on the waitlist here: https://mailchi.mp/5d3986bd6987/nomoreguiltgroups --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/breakthedietcycle/message
Yael R Rosenstock Gonzalez (she/her) is a sex educator, sex coach, researcher, author, speaker, curriculum developer, and workshop facilitator. As a queer, polyamorous, white-presenting Nuyorican Jew, Yael has always been interested in understanding the multi-level experiences of individuals. This led her to found Kaleidoscope Vibrations, LLC, a company dedicated to supporting and creating spaces for individuals to explore and find community in their identities. Through her company, she facilitates workshops, develops curriculum, offers Identity Exploration Coaching, and publishes narratives often left out of mainstream publishing.This episode we explore:Honoring boundaries in community spaces and navigating POC spaces as a white presenting personFinding belonging and claiming identity as a multi-ethnic personDiversity in the Jewish diaspora Promoting inclusive representations of human experience in publishing Episode ResourcesDecolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationBali Retreat March 19-25 2023https://kvibrations.com/https://www.sexpositiveyou.com/https://www.instagram.com/yaelthesexgeek/https://www.tiktok.com/@yaelthesexgeekHello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host, Dalia Kinsey, holistic registered dietitian, and the author of Decolonizing Wellness.My work is centered on amplifying the health and happiness of LGBTQI+ and BIPOC people. And that is also what we do here at Body Liberation for All. I wanna remind you, I am hosting the Decolonizing Wellness Eco-Luxury QTBIPOC retreat in Bali in March. So if you are a person who loves the plan way in advance, like I do. This is when you want to book. This is a great time to give yourself plenty of room to break the trip into payments and to get all of your ducks in a row. If you aren't going to be able to join us, but you know someone who this retreat could be life changing for, please make sure you share it. Substack makes sharing so easy on their platform. So if you visit daliakinsey.substack.com to listen to this episode you'll see it's just a click of a button. Today's guest, the Yael Rosenstock has so much knowledge in different areas that we cover a lot of territory in this conversation. There was still so much more that we could have dug into that hopefully at a later date we'll get to revisit. Today we explore a little bit of the lived experience of being a white presenting person who lives shoulder to shoulder with POC within the family, but out in the world is not having the same experience as the family members that have a darker complexion. Since we already know race is not actually real from a scientific perspective, it's totally a social construct, your skin color itself will to a large extent determine how much lived experience you have as a person of color or as a white person, regardless of what the socialization inside of your house is like because so much of the POC experience, if you're living in a colonized country, if you're living in a country that has its roots in white supremacy, so much of the experience is informed by the anti-Blackness or the anti-POCness that you're going to encounter out in the world.That does not in any way invalidate the cultural uniqueness of people who are in these very blended families and happen to have pale skin or white skin. So it's interesting to me to hear directly from somebody having this experience. It's an interesting concept to look at on an individual level. What does the fact that race is fictional and totally social have? How does that all play out - when you know you are culturally different from the white folks who do not have POC blood relatives that they live with and are close with but at the same time you know that you're not experiencing the same level of marginalization. What is that like? I rarely bother to claim my Latinx heritage. Because the anti-blackness that I have encountered in a lot of Spanish-speaking circles here in the US is so intense it doesn't make any logical sense for me to keep trying to be somewhere that I don't feel welcome.Some of these themes that Yael shares, the feeling of not enoughness when you are more than one thing or when you've only been presented with a narrow definition of what it means to hold a particular identity, is so relatable. I know not just to us, it's so relatable to so many people, because the ways that we define certain identities are so narrow it naturally leaves out a large number of people. The work that Yael is doing to promote the authentic representation of a wide variety of human experience at her publishing company feels like such a natural extension of this lived experience that she has of knowing how difficult it can be to really claim and embody our identities when we haven't seen anything similar reflected back to us. I love this. Entire conversation. I know you will too. Let's jump right into it. Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: I definitely wanted to cover the concept of white passing fragility. But then I want to definitely talk about your other projects and just what you're doing with intersectionality.Yael: Okay. I do want to warn that there's a very good chance that that will not. Some people will really like that idea of the white passing fragility, but others won't because right. The author of that book has become super famous and super rich off of a book around racism as a white woman. And just giving you a fair warning that this may or may not be taken so well.Dalia: And then that's so interesting too, because it seems like people should be compensated for good work or things that they do with good intentions.Dalia: But so often people who are in social justice are on the struggle bus financially, but, and that almost seems to be the expectation. Like you have to be a martyr to break down systems of oppression. But then I also am conflicted because it seems like all the time, white people continue to profit off of pain from people of color and especially Black people in this country. Even when you look at who makes money off of depictions of just Black suffering in general, whether it's another movie about slavery, even if it's a "fun" spin on it, like the Django or something, which I refuse to watch, I just don't understand how we're not seeing how problematic that is, but at least hers originally started out with intentions that seemed more educational.Dalia: Like I think it's a little more sketch to create a film or a piece of entertainment that centered on Black pain. And then all the money goes to somebody who's not Black. I mean, not at all, but the majority, most of it, right. It seems less sketchy, but it is sketchy nonetheless.Dalia: And I've been having a lot of feelings around these white savior complexes that are popping out these days. And people not understanding that, hey, maybe people want to be the hero of their own damn story and guess what, maybe they are ready are.Yael: But you're in the wayDalia: I know. Right? Or like you just exhausting people showing up to the March and explaining to everybody how, you know, you're being white the right way. I don't know if you've seen that play out in real life where people try constantly schooling other white people on how to be more. Down, I guess is the expression, but it doesn't really translate, but it's so rare that people confront people like that because their competition or the people that you have to compare them to you sometimes are so problematic that by comparison, they seem amazing.Yael: Yeah, I like this better.Dalia: So it's like, should I even say anything?Dalia: So I don't know.Yael: Considering that most of my spaces are POC and or Latin. I don't have that many white saviors.Dalia: Smart. Okay. Is that by design or is that coincidental?Yael: Well, I think at first it's coincidental, right? Just like growing up in a mixed neighborhood with a mixed family.Yael: It just is what happened. I was in a school with folks of different groups. And so that just continued. And then when I did reach middle school and there were white people who were just white, not Latin, like, I mean, there were a couple in elementary, but not many. And. I just felt really uncomfortable in the space.Yael: And that was like my assigned group. Cause I wasn't dark enough to be in the Latin group, I think. And also like the Latin group was like ghetto fab. Like I also wore my hair back slicked back. I also had the lip liner, and I had the big hoop earrings as well,Dalia: But like it wasn't enough.Yael: It was a, it was a browner Latin group. And so I felt like I shouldn't be part of it. Like I was friends with them, but I shouldn't be part of it because I didn't look the same. And so I just like ended up, even though I was friends with all the other groups, I ended up in the white girl group and I was just like, this is uncomfortable. Like, I don't agree with the things they say.Yael: I like rebelled a bit and basically got kicked out. And so I think after that, I was just like, I'm going to try and choose. So I don't think I've ever been like, I'm unwilling to be friends with white people because that doesn't seem nice either. But the same reason that folks have affinity groups, right?Yael: The same reason we hang out with queer people as queer people, the same reason you hang out with Latin people if you're Latin or Black and Black is because you don't want to have to explain certain things. And I'm tired. And so I don't go into all white spaces cause I get nervous about why are they all white?Yael: Like what's the intention behind this group. Is there an ulterior motive and I, yeah, I just like, I don't want to have to explain things that I end up becoming that white person, the white savior being like, that's not how. I joined a book club once. And they were talking about how, like, it didn't make sense that this person was referencing their dreams.Yael: Like it's not like a real thing. And I was like, this person is Mexican. And I don't know that much about Mexicans, but in like Caribbean culture dreams can be really important.Dalia: Oh wait. They were saying like a literal dream, not goals that they were struggling with finding meaning in their dream and they thought that was weird?Yael: Yeah. He was writing a memoir and he was referencing how he thought his dream was related to the, like what was happening in his life and that he had seen a Wolf or something. Right. He has indigenous culture roots, right as a Mexican-American. But they were just like, no, that's like, he's just making that up from the memoir.Dalia: But no, because that's extremely common.Yael: Yeah. Like they couldn't fathom it.Dalia: That is fascinating. So this is so interesting, can you share your marginalized identities? Because I think the experience of being white presenting is interesting in that you may be exposed to things that I might never hear, because I didn't even know that, I didn't even notice that white people weren't doing that all the time too.Dalia: Because at work at the moment I'm working in a majority Black office. And people are constantly talking about, you know, oh, I saw this, I wonder if it's a sign and we all have different religious backgrounds too. Somebody even started wearing a hair net because they're afraid somebody might get some of their hair that was shedding and put roots on them. None of us thought that was weird. We were all like, oh, if you feel it's necessary, you do that. You make sure you're not,Yael: You save yourself. It may or may not be real. It may or may not be. I'm always like, I rather be careful then sorry.Dalia: Exactly. Absolutely. Nobody said anything when I came into the room to sage it because I thought that we had some bad mojo in there.Dalia: People said, make sure you get my desk.. Someone came in with holy water. Like we had a very problematic coworker , and we were like, get all the stuff we're clapping in the corners.Yael: I was friends with one of the custodians where I used to work and she's an older woman. She was like the age of maybe like between mother and grandmother.Yael: And she brought me a bracelet because she was. You're very joyful and you're pretty. And I just think that someone's going to send you a curse. made me a bracelet to protect me from maldiciones. She just didn't want me to get hurt.Dalia: And you immediately put it on. You're like, okay, thanks.Yael: I mean, first off, like I appreciate that you're caring about me and no, I don't think it's weird.Yael: I've worn, evil eyes before, you know, like, to me, I think that the bigger thing for us is like whether or not we participate or whether or not we're like, yes, this is real when I talk about ghost stories, I share all the ghost stories. I know. Was I there? No. Was it real? I don't know. Cause I wasn't there, but it could be .Dalia: It's so dismissive to be like, oh, that's so dumb. What? Who says that -only people who are very sheltered and are under the impression that their way is the only way.Yael: This was a group about social justice. The people are lovely and the ones who hosted, I actually adore. They are fantastic.Yael: And they weren't the ones who were having this question, but I remember one person in particular, she was just totally dismissive. And I was just like, I don't understand. And I didn't show up for a couple of years, but then I came back and I was like, okay, my role is going to be giving the perspective of not these people in the case that this comes up again, because they keep reading books by people of color. And like, I don't have the same perspective. Like I said, I'm not Mexican. I don't know what they do. But I have a feeling that this is like something that's shared, like it's a native American thing.Yael: It's a Latin thing. It's a Black thing. Like I just feel, you know, Asian cultures, everyone, actually.Dalia: I know this is whats so bizarre.Yael: There are definitely white people who also have that as a practice and Jews, a lot of us who do pass it are white or pass as white, like that's also part of our culture.Dalia: And that's another thing. So this is one of my big questions. So, you identify as Latin X?Yael: Yes, I'm LatinaDalia: You're Latina and you're Jewish. And so does that mean your mother is your Jewish parent.Yael: That is actually, so...Dalia: does that matter or is that like out of date or…Yael: No, that is an excellent question. My parents tried to enroll me in what's called Yeshiva because they didn't like the local public school.Yael: And so they wanted to put me in a Jewish school and I got rejected because my mother is Catholic and my father is Jewish. And as you like are insinuating, like the religion follows the mother. Now that school accepts muts like me of my form. They no longer discriminate against us, but because my parents couldn't put me in the Jewish school.Yael: I went to an Episcopalian school.Dalia: Oh, wow, you were all over the place.Yael: Yeah. So I got a good Christian education .Dalia: Oh, and how did your dad manage,, was he a little heartbroken? Like, Ooh, not what I had in mind.Yael: Well, it was a small school. There wasn't a religion class, but like every morning we started with prayers and every Wednesday we had mass and I just, I didn't know they wanted me to be Jewish. I thought they were saying, here are our religions. You go to Sunday Jewish school. You go to day school with Christians. Figure out your path. And so I very confidently figured out my path. I was like, I am Jewish. And like, I am now very knowledgeable about Christian stuff. But actually they did want me to be Jewish and they had warned the school that that was what they wanted.Dalia: I was under the impression, and this may not be accurate. Is that like a modern Jewish person may be a little more secular and maybe they know some of the traditions and then maybe they go to synagogue for special events or, but still feel that strong cultural identity.Dalia: And then don't really feel, I feel like they should be dropped into that white American bucket with everybody else because they're separate as an ethnic group. Whereas other white ethnic groups (in America) gave up their separateness for the most part.Yael: Interesting. So I haven't done much study into the question, but I have a friend who sent me, who sends me lots of articles, Catherine.Yael: And she sent me an article about whether or not Jews are white and my coworker, Asia Gray, who does our anti-racism curriculum and what have you. One of the books was, how antisemitism was the original racism. And so that's part of the way that she talks about oppression and like structural oppressions and what have you.Yael: And she starts that story there and it's like Jews became white if you are white, but there are Black Jews. There are like plenty of Middle Eastern Jews that have more color there are Russian Jews, the Sephardic Jews, the Mizrahi in general. So there are plenty of Jews of color and then they're like me Ashkenazi, which are of German roots, right. German and certain parts of Russia, roots and Poland and all that kind of stuff. And so, yeah. Yes, it is a different, I agree. It's different ethnic group. Like you can trace us back when I did that blood test, I literally come out 49% Ashkenazi. I'm from Germany, even though I can, I can trace my roots on a family tree that's physical to the 15 hundreds. It says I'm Ashkenazi. Wasn't mentioned Germany because the Jewish blood is what it picks up. And so, yes, I agree. Like there's like this ethnic thing there and that's why you can be a secular person of a religion.Yael: I mean, there are plenty of secular Christians, right. That celebrate Christmas and what have you. But there's like this certain level of like the foods that you eat and the mannerisms that you have and like certain cultural values. I don't identify it as a secular Jew I identify as reform, which is like a less observant Jew.Dalia: Now, how did you feel your queer identity meshes with Judaism? It's rumored to be an easier mesh. Is that true? Are Christians just being jealous?Yael: I think it is an easier, easier. I mean, I know plenty of Christians that are queer, but my synagogue, I don't remember how old I was, but she bat mitzvah'd me so young enough for that had a lesbian rabbai.Yael: And she got married at our synagogue and we were just a regular reform synagogue. Right. We weren't like, ah, where the most social justice progressive synogauge, we were just a reform synagogue. And we did lose some of the older parishioners and I imagine some other age ones, when she joined as the rabbi, but for the most part, everyone was like, love who you love.Yael: Right? Like that's not an issue. And she was a woman rabbi and my next rabbi was also a woman, right? So like that's super common. It's even starting very slowly in the Orthodox community, which is one of the more observant sects of Judaism to have women rabbis. And so overall I think that shift is, is more common in our space .Dalia: The idea of there being Jewish people of color is interesting to me, because it seems like in the states, people are under the impression that that's not a thing. Can you tell us about the work that you're doing for representation, and as far as intersectionality goes as a very fair skin person of color.Yael: Sure so I think the most thing that the thing that directly relates is that I'm part of the diverse bodies project. The idea is a nude photo interview series, intended to increase representation of who gets seen and photograph naked and how you want to be represented.Yael: So it's not that you had to do a sexy shot or you had to do a serious shot that people get to bring their personalities in through the photographs and show who they are. And that was really important to us and something that we did because it's been taken us forever. But the mini books that we've already released is the Jews flying the rainbow flag mini books.Yael: And so it's got five different Jews and we had plenty of Jews participate but featured five different Jews ranging from like early twenties to, I think, sixties and out of the five of them. Two of them are Black. One of the Black Jews is also Latin, so she's Afro Dominican. And the point of that was to be like folks exist, you know, and it's so common for you to be like, this is what a Jew looks like when.Yael: Yeah, sure a lot of us do look like me. There are Black Jews. There are Latin Jews, there are Asian Jews, there are all the types. And so that was really important to us that we highlight that these are two queer Black Jewish women and they get as much space in this little book as anyone else.Yael: I will say part of my work and that's what we got into the white white passing fragility talk is that I don't identify as a person of color. And who knows, maybe I'll change that at some point. I choose not to identify that way. Cause it feels appropriative. And to be like, just because I have another language or just because my family may have a bunch of people of color and it doesn't mean that I'm existing as a person of color.Yael: And so when I walked through the street, people see me as white and that's just true. But I do enter, and I was asked this question recently, so why do I enter people of color spaces? And it's cause I'm, I'm feel safer there. I feel more connected there. I don't feel blegh there. And so if people are willing to have me, which they generally are, most people of color spaces are open to white presenting Latin folk. Then I just asked permission and I join.Dalia: That's interesting and I knew that, and I forgot that when I said that, because I know I'm very used to- anybody who says they're a person of color. I was just like, okay, like, it's the response? Because especially, you know, Black American, no, actually.Dalia: Latin people even more than Black Americans come in all kinds of shades and colors, and you can't look at somebody and have any clue what even their parents look like. And that a lot of times really informs their experience as far as how they were treated growing up, because it is funny to me how depending on who you're sitting beside, people may perceive your color differently, which just goes to show how arbitrary our understanding of race is..Dalia: Like number one, we know it's not a real biological thing, but like you said, it's the experience that creates the cultural differences. It's the lived experience that matters. So if, when you are out in the world, people treat you as though you are white well then you are having the white experience.Dalia: And that is really the key difference. But I have biracial friends who, if they were with their brown parent, they get treated differently and are even perceived differently versus with the other parent, which I just think is fascinating.Yael: Well, my parents are both white. My dad is white Ashkenazi and my mother is a white presenting Latina.Yael: My uncle, my abuela they would have been identified as POC, but not my mother. And so when I'm with my mother, it was the same thing. People don't realize she speaks Spanish. She's been spoken about by people who were like checking her out.Dalia: Well, it's just interesting to me. And I don't know if this happens everywhere or if it's some of our American brainwashing, but like all the time people act as though Spanish is. Secret language. And I'm like, what is wrong with you? It is so, so common. And the people who speak it look so many different ways and you don't have to only speak English, your heart language, or your first language.Dalia: Like, that's another thing I'm like, you do realize that maybe she can speak Spanish as a second language or not all latin people look the same. I really don't understand the disconnect with that because I've been spoken about in Spanish to my frigging face so many times, and I do speak Spanish. And usually, I mean, unless they're saying something really rude, usually people are trying to guess whether or not the person I'm with is my husband or my what's the male form of mistress.Dalia: I bet there isn't one, right? Oh,Yael: LoverDalia: Yeah, it just goes to show like, if there isn't a word that connotes, not a legitimate partner, because you're not married to them that's some more sexist shenanigans, but yeah, it's just interesting to me that people make that assumption so often. So what has your experience been like trying to stay connected to your Latin roots when so often people are very narrow about what they consider to be Latin?Yael: So it's funny because all of our countries have folks, all the Latin countries have folks that look like me. And like most of the countries have folks that look like you, right? It's not, we're not anomalies in these spaces.Yael: And so I actually, I was convinced I needed to prove myself. Like my mother, I felt counted as real Latina because she was raised in Puerto Rico. Her first language is Spanish. Like that seems to me like check that counts. But me I'm half Ashkenazi. I look, the way that I do my Spanish for awhile was pretty crappy.Yael: And so I, I felt the need to prove myself. All my friends were Latina and I was like, I must be more Latina. I must speak this fluently. And I must eat the food. And I am an incredible salsa dancer at this point. So, but that was all me. Right. And perhaps white people and perhaps Black people who weren't Latin.Yael: Right. And that, if I said I was. The response was always like, oh really? Unless I turned around and then they're like, I see it in your butt now I know that you're Latin because of your butt, like, literally the number of times people have been like, I believe you because of your shape. Otherwise I wouldn't have counted you.Yael: Whereas on the flip side with Latin folks, there's really not much surprise. They don't assume I'm Latina. But if I start speaking Spanish or they see me dancing or whatever, like they ask me, where are you from? They don't ask me, are you at the end of the ask me? Oh, okay. Yeah. Right. Assume that I am. And they're right, because for them, it's not so surprising to see someone who looks like me, but I think, and it's when you think of immigration, you're going to assume that more white Latins are going to migrate because of mean.Yael: Whereas you have browner and Blacker people migrating because of need. And so if you're hanging out with folks from your same social class, which will end up being also your same racial categorization, because those are very linked to whether or not we all want to admit it in the Americas as well.Yael: And all the Americas. So like, I think that that's part of it, right? You're used to hanging out with other brown people. And so even though your country has plenty people who look like me, you never associated with associated with them. Either. They were from a different region or they were from a different social class.Yael: And so they went to different schools and they had different access. And so I think that's more it, but like Latin people never not include me.Dalia: Oh, that's interesting. So it was really more just internal.Yael: Yeah. I was like in TV, none of the Latinas looked like me. All of my friends were darker than me.Yael: And so I was like, I need to be darker. And my abuela ? When I went to go visit her, she was like, no sunscreen. We need to get you more dark.Dalia: That is so interesting to me because that I've seen more often the opposite experience. So first I think when I turn on Univision, everybody's white and the housekeeper looks like she has some indigenous ancestry.Dalia: She doesn't get to say anything, except like, let me get that for you.Yael: They're white almost. They're like what I call exotic white. Like they have, what's considered what I consider the stereotypical, Latin of means look, which is like, they have very heavily European race roots, but they were at some point mixed with other races.Yael: And so they have like olive tone skin, dark hair, like certain whatever. And I don't have. It's like, I'm actually just white passing.Dalia: Yeah. Oh yeah. That makes sense. That distinction. Yeah. I can see that for sure. Like a Sophia Vergara type of, yeah.Dalia: But at the same time I'm sure when she is home, she would be called white, but it's just, when you weave and you come here, then you you've turned into some exotic white.Yael: Yes. And that like that to me is like an interesting thing too. Like if in your own country you are white and then you come here and you're like, I'm a person of color.Yael: What changed? And it's true. Our racial dynamics are very different in each country, but it's interesting to me that, like, I mean, you don't necessarily, people don't identify necessarily as white or Black or what have you. That's not part of, most of the country's ways of self. They just don't do that. And then some countries that like became illegal like you don't put that stuff on the birth certificates, like you just don't name race. But in my head, I'm like you can recognize hopefully that people look different in your country and that you're having different experiences based on that. So when you come to this country, why do you claim this identity?Yael: Or if your family came to this country, why do you claim this identity when you were still white passing?Dalia: Well, yeah, that is really interesting. And what is funny to me, especially for Dominicans, just because I hear this from them more than anybody else, that your race, it feels like it did change during the flight because your treatment was completely different.Dalia: And maybe back home, you were part of the dominant group culturally and power structure wise. And this is the first time people are treating you as though you're an other. And so maybe your identity will shift them because race really is a social construct. So you can make a flight and your race changes.Yael: Yes, totally agree. But also those are Afro Dominican, right? Then being put into a category that is on the lower end of, or possibly the lowest end of our racial categories in the U S. And so they're going from being the norm to going to being the most marginalized population in the country. Whereas if you are a light skinned or white passing Latina you were going from being the highest, probably social class in your country to be not too far down. You might feel like you're all of a sudden, like super oppressed, because you're not used to any form of oppressio nDalia: that see, that really says a lot. And it is the author, speaking of white passing fragility, the writer of white fragility says, you know, like 97% feels like a horrible loss or injustice when you're used to a hundred percent.Yael: Oh, wow. Nice quote.Dalia: And I say that, and I'm like, she probably said some other numbers, but don't look it up. Trust me. I love the idea of that perspective of asking for permission to go into these other spaces because you feel comfortable, but then also not internalizing the rejection. If somebody says, I really, I don't think it's a fit.Dalia: How did you get to that point? And how do you suggest other people who are white presenting, but feel more comfortable in browner spaces? How should they reconcile that?Yael: So I think there's like tying back with like that white savior thing that like, I need to be here.Yael: Don't get me wrong, communities are important. And again, like a lot of my community is POC and that is important to me. And also I recognize that not every space is for me. If you were going to have a men's group, I don't belong in it. When I was helping facilitate a peer sex education group, I was like, we need a leader for the abstinence and virginity group, because I am neither abstinent nor identify as a virgin, but I am a super sexual human being.Yael: And so I don't belong in this space. It does not make the space safe. This is a group led by and for folks with a certain experience. And so when you recognize that that's the point, right? Like women's groups, you don't want men. And normally we don't question that we're not like, oh, how exclusionary what's exclusionary is if you don't allow all women.Yael: All women belong in women's groups, whether they're CIS or trans. But you don't allow men because it's a woman's space. And the point is to create a space that feels safe for that population. So they can be heard, feel seen and not have to explain things that they would have to explain to someone who doesn't understand.Yael: And so to me, that is what often POC spaces are. And there's so much I can understand because I'm surrounded by POC and because my family has POC and there's so much I can't understand because I will never live it.Yael: And so if the space would be safer without my presence, then why would I want to put myself in a spot that will cause others harm when then the intension is for them to have a good space.Yael: Not every space is like that, right? Like if you go to school, if you go somewhere most spaces, unless you're like at historically Black university, right? Like you're going to be surrounded by white folks and like, no, one's questioning that. And so why shouldn't you get to be surrounded by the people you want to be surrounded with for this time period that is yours. It's your time, it's your space. And so I think for me, it's just like thinking about what is your intentions about entering it? Are you trying to contribute in a way that is helpful and wholesome and caring and supportive. Great. Is it wanted? Yes. Enter. Is it not. Go somewhere else. You can still hang out with those same people just not in that particular space that was designated at this time for this purpose.Dalia: And when you say it that way, not at this time and not this space, because I feel like a lot of people who seek out those spaces, that isn't how most of their day is, you know, it's just a little refuge and it certainly isn't that they don't want to have a fully integrated intersectional life.Dalia: Like you said, it's a break from having to explain certain things. And what's interesting is when sometimes you try and make things more and more broad. There's just more potential for issues because I have seen more on reality TV than in real life. Yes. White presenting, Latin people using certain racial slurs saying it's okay for them because they're down or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, but you're not of the group that gets to use that word and they just kept on defending it. I'm just like, okay, we're just, you're canceled. We're moving on. So there are, there can be issues where people who you would expect to not be problematic come in and are.Dalia: And so maybe some people have been burned. A few times, and now they're just, they're exhausted and they don't want to put the energy into fielding out who is safe and who is not safe.Yael: And there's nothing wrong with that. Like it's not necessarily personal, it could be personal if you're one of those people, but even the question, right?Yael: Like I wanted to advertise a job position and so I seek to advertise them first in places of color and queer spaces. And so I contacted several different groups. Oh. And then, sorry, I remember there was a posting for a DEI position at a Jewish organization. And so I started to contact the admin of different POC, Jewish groups, like a Black Jewish group, or what have you.Yael: And I said, listen, I filled out their form to enter, but I was like, I don't actually want to enter. I'm wondering if you can share this link. So folks can see the job. I am a white presenting, a Latino Jew. I ended up getting messaged even by the Black group. And they're like, oh, you can join. I was like, Black is not part of my identity.Yael: Like we, because of the Caribbean, we have those roots as well. But like I don't claim that.Dalia: It's funny. I do feel like Black people in my experience. That's why I was so I've been surprised when people have told me, they were bullied. Black kids in school who are other POC is it's always surprising to me because the town that I was raised in and the part of the south that I'm from, people still were in that space of, if you we're different enough to maybe not be able to get into a whites only area, or if the clain would have targeted you too, cause clan is not down. They're very antisemitic, they're anti everything. But then you were welcome. Like if you wanted to sit at that table, you were always welcome. Just anybody who is being othered the policy was come on in. If you have nowhere else to go, we'll take you.Yael: That's lovely. I definitely know that that's not always true. And again, it's okay. I mean, the bullying is not okay. Deciding who's in your space is, but yeah, exactly. So like I was welcomed and obviously everyone's Jewish because it's a Jewish group.Yael: And so it's, it was specifically a space built for Jews, Black Jews and some Jews of color to have a reprieve from the white Jews. White Jews often mean, well, right? Like we fill up social justice spaces, like hardcores. I've spoken to people about this, that like insofar as percentage of folks who are involved in social justice by group, I imagine that our group is one of the most heavily social justice oriented.Yael: Cause we're so small and people are like you're everywhere, but it doesn't mean that we're doing it well or that we're doing it right. And so it can be exhausting to have white Jews around because we are those white saviory types.Yael: And yeah. So I was, I was surprised and I was like, well, okay. Like I will post it myself then afterwards. And she had, she had posted already and she had written my name and giving me credit. And like I said, this person wanted to let us all know about this job.Dalia: That's very cool. It's nice to find community, but it's also very nice to know that when you're trying to create a safe space around certain parts of our identity, that there are people who understand and support, because I'm sure it's hard for some people to hold that space.Dalia: And to not feel guilty about saying no sometimes. So it's nice to know that even if not everybody understands, some people totally understand and they're not gonna lose any sleep over it. They're just going to move on to the next Facebook group and they'll be fine. And maybe you'll run into each other in another space.Dalia: That's centered around an identity that you have in common.Yael: Yeah. Exactly. And so I think that's just like, it's kinda like building resilience and you might actually be in another POC group together, but not necessarily that one.Yael: And make everybody safe because I would hate to go into a space where I was told, Hey, women are welcome. Like this happens a lot. Well, not now that everybody's at home groups are really growing and there's like a group for everything. But previously it just felt like, like in the nineties, everything that was gay or LGBTQ was CIS male dominated.Dalia: Tell us about your company and what made you want to form a publishing company and what your vision is for that company?Yael: Sure. So my company's name is Kaleidoscope Vibrations, LLC . And for anyone who's an owner, kaleidoscope is it's like this toy that had all these like gems on the bottom and you'd move your hands in opposite directions around this tuby thing. And you'd look inside and it would be create new, pretty color combinations.Yael: And so the idea is that every vibration or event in your life creates a new beautiful you, and that our identities are always forming and they're always developing. And the reason I created this company was because I was this like Jew that wasn't Jewish enough. I was this Latina that I didn't think that I looked enough or counted enough.Yael: I was queer, but not queer enough. You know, like there are all these ways and this, I, I didn't feel like I should count. And that's, that's different, right? Like that's different than choosing whether or not you belong in a space as to whether or not you feel like you matter enough to be in a space or if you, you belong.Yael: And so I created this company to help people find confidence in their identities and find their communities. So maybe. You don't belong to blank community, but you do belong to another one and then you can find the people that you need so you have a supportive, loving environment that understands you.Yael: And so I do workshops, I do identity coaching, curriculum development like inclusivity in the workspace across different identities and what have you. But we also have a publishing sect, and that's the purpose is to uplift different narratives that aren't necessarily heard. And so the first book was mine, which is An Intro Guide to a Sex Positive You.Yael: Sex is not necessarily something you think of and you're like, oh, this is not inclusive, but it really is. And so my book, I know I had someone read it, who was like, I've been looking for a book that validated my experiences as a queer person while reading it that wasn't heteronormative, right. That wasn't geared towards straight people.Yael: And it's not that my book has hetero exclusive. You can be whatever matched you with. I just don't assume what you're going to match. And so I don't add genders into my conversations in the book and that like that in and of itself, apparently at the time was somewhat revolutionary for some folks. And the next book was Luna, Luna Si, Luna.Yael: Yes. Maybe it's that Luna? Yes. Luna Si. And it is a book about two little sisters who are Latino it's in English and in Spanish. And the younger sister has autism. And she is 40% verbal. And so we often see representations of savants, right? So, and they tend to be white males. And so you have these kids who have really incredible abilities to count numbers or to memorize things, or what have you.Yael: And they often do have very good verbal capacities. They have awkward social cues because they have trouble reading it, but that's like the extent to how they represent autism. Whereas in this case, like you see how she, how she is able to communicate the form that her language takes. And you do learn about like the kinds of things that she can do.Yael: You learn about stems. So like ticks that people do to keep themselves calm and well. And that was the intention, right? link that autism comes in all colors, all ethnicities, that there are varying levels of how much people can communicate and what, you know, how much need or help they might require.Yael: And yeah, and it just, that's, it it's a story about sisters and how they love each other and how they communicate and also one of them has autism. And so that intention of bringing those to the surface and yeah, we're working on a bunch of other different possibilities as well. Another one's about anxiety.Yael: So another bilingual book, but a little girl's anxiety and what that's looked like for her.Dalia: That's really helpful. I think that more and more children are experiencing anxiety earlier. So that's definitely needed. And it is interesting how ableism racism, xenophobia, how it all plays together and how you really don't see representation of people living with a diagnosis that aren't white it's. I mean, it's almost always going to be white to the extent that when you meet someone with something as common as down syndrome, who's Asian, you're like, wow. Like, oh, I didn't know. Obviously we can all get whatever we can be born, any kind of way, human diversity, it's just what we choose to feature. That makes it seem like we aren't as diverse as we are.Yael: But then it's also the like racism that exists within the publishing space. And so even when you do have some books that are more representative in that, like the pictures have kids of all different colors, it doesn't necessarily that the author is a person of color.Yael: And so with my company, you have to have either the identities that you are discussing or someone in your like close family, someone in your close life, and you have lived this with them, right. That you are experiencing this with them. So like the author of the book autism, t he person with autism, didn't write this.Yael: She doesn't write. But her sister wrote it. And so she has lived with her sister, her, the younger one's entire life, the one who has autism so entire life. And so that was like the perspective that we were able to take. And so it's very important to me that the people who are writing the stories also have lived experience.Yael: And it's not just about like, oh yeah, we need to mix A and B and with number 3 so that we can count in this diversity world where like, you're supposed to do this. Now it's about like, this is my story, and I want you to hear it.Dalia: And the way that people tell their own story is so different from how it's told by an observer.Dalia: And people can feel that difference. Sometimes it's so subtle, but you definitely, some things just they're very difficult to fake and so right now, a lot of companies. In all sectors, not just publishing people are faking the funk right now, and it's not pretty. So it falls flat. It's all kind of, oh, this just came to me.Dalia: Did you see that woman who has been saying that? She's...Yael: who said that she was Black from the Bronx in the Bronx and is a white Jew from Kansas.Dalia: Yes, she got the hoop earrings, she got the tan and she was like, I'm ready to rock. I do not understand how this has happened more than once in such a widely publicized way in my lifetime.Yael: So I actually, let's, let's break that down a bit. So first off, she's a, she is a white Jew, right? My friend is also a white Jew. Neither of them actually presents white. Like, if you look at them, that's not the identity you're going to give them because they were darker skin tones. Right. And so it's also interesting how whiteness works that like, because they are Jewish, they are given.Yael: Right. It just, that is also so interesting. But I remember someone commented, like how did no one realize like Afro Latinas don't come that light? And I was like, hold up a second way lighter than that woman. Right. There are people who identify as Black. That is their identity. Who are way lighter than this faker.Yael: And so my thing was, you should not fake who you are, but the fact that people believed her makes total sense to me.Dalia: But it seemed like to me, what was the most damning is how. Some of her clothing choices and accessory choices, maybe they speak to her, they were so sterotypical. It just seemed a little performative.Yael: She faked three different identities.Dalia: Oh, I didn't see that part.Yael: Afro Latina was her latest identity. The one before that was Black American, the one before that was north African. Okay. She moved across the globe.Yael: No one tracked this?! Like at one point she was north African and now she's Black and now she's Afro Latina from the Bronx specifically.Dalia: That's interesting too, that extra, that, that was so important for her to feature that what trips me out about it. And I think what really troubles a lot of people about it is to know that.Dalia: Race is not real to the extent that whatever you say could literally change your experience. You just have to keep saying it and buy some hoops and you can be another person. Like, it just, she went overboard with the, just so stereotypical, but you're right. It easily could have been true going off of skin color alone.Dalia: And some people do still dress that way, even though it's not the nineties anymore.Yael: But I love my hoops in the nineties.Dalia: I did too, you know, but they're like more modern with the embellishment. It has that like handcrafted feel. I don't know what happened with the hoops. It went out for me with letting my eyebrows finally try and grow back in, but I did use to be so, so into that. But at one point I also had a Jheri curl.Dalia: So I really shouldn't talk about anybody else's since its style, I've made many mistakes over the years. I really appreciate you sharing your perspective and coming on. Where can people find you? Sure.Yael: So my main thing is that I'm @yaelthesexgeek I'm a sexologist, sex coach, a sex educator.Yael: @yaelthesexgeek on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. My website is sexpositiveyou.com, so pretty easy. And then my company is kvibrations.com. And so you can find most of my things through there.Dalia: Awesome. You are doing so many different things. We didn't even touch on the sex positivity, maybe that's for another day.Dalia: Are you thinking of revisiting that book now that you know, we're kind of all in a different place as a country and as queer people? Or are there things you'd like to add? Are you going to revise that addition or write something new?Yael: Yeah. So the book is only two years old, but things change and shift so much, right? Like now there is so much more language outside of queer spaces around pronouns, but I think even in 2018, like the idea of talking about pronouns outside of queer spaces was still foreign for most, so. Yes, there are definitely, I've looked back and I'm like, oh, overall, I'm like, this is a good book.Yael: Just so you know, like people love my book and I go back, I'm like, oh, this was, this was better than you thought it was. Yes, there are, of course things I want to change, but I I'm looking into doing a teen workbook version of it. Because I wrote it for my 14 year old self, but I don't think parents of 14 year olds would be thrilled to have their kids read this book..Yael: And I think it's more of like a 16 and up kind of book. And I want to be able to reach people when they're younger because sexual trauma and boundary making and self pleasure and all of that is important before you are 18 or 16. And I also started, but I'm not going to have time right now, the nerds guide.Yael: So this is the intro guide and the nerds guide goes into the socio historical and psychological backgrounds. And so when you talk about things, Gender. I want to be able to talk about that are six sexes and genders are present in the Talmud in ancient Jewish text, rich and written 1500 years ago. I want to talk about the hijra in India, and that they have like that as a third gender that's established that how different native American communities have two spirit or don't have two spirit identities.Yael: And like, what does that mean and how do they conceptualize it? And just like, recognizing that there's so much more beyond what we talk about.Dalia: Yeah, that sounds really fascinating.Yael: Yeah. But that's going to take awhile. It's going to take research and I'm doing a PhD right now.Dalia: The list just keeps going.Yael: And that's on the back burner, that's like maybe if someone gives me a book deal, I'll work on that.Dalia: I love it. Oh, excellent. Thank you so much for coming on.Yael: Thank you for having me.Yael: I always, I really enjoy talking with you and Dalia.Dalia: Same here. Same here. You'll have to come back when you finish your nerd book or I'm sure, actually you're doing many things. I'm sure it'll be before then. Sounds good. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
Nhakia Outland (she/her/hers) is the founder of Prevention Meets Fashion Inc. She is a Black, queer, single mother of three. She is a social worker, sex educator, sex therapist in training and professor at Temple University with an extensive background in advocacy, consulting and community organizing who is passionate about finding creative ways to engage Black, LGBTIA+ communities. Nhakia's work focuses on addressing stigma and inequalities in sexual health and reproductive health (SRH) through fashion, advocacy, community and education (F.A.C.E).This episode we exploreThe impact affirming clothing can have on mental healthFinding and celebrating your aestheticThe connection between sexual health and fashion Episode Resourceshttps://www.preventionmeetsfashion.org/https://www.thecrownact.com/Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationBali Retreat March 19-25 2023Hello, and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host, Dalia Kinsey holistic registered dietitian and author of Decolonizing Wellness.This show and my work overall is dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ people.Today we're joined by Nhakia Outland. The founder of Prevention Meets Fashion. She's a black queer, single mother of three. She's a social worker, sex educator, sex therapist in training, and a professor at Temple University with an extensive background in advocacy consulting and community organizing. She's passionate about finding creative ways to engage Black, LGBTQ+ communities.Nhakia's work focuses on addressing stigma and inequalities in sexual health and reproductive health through fashion advocacy, community, and education.Nhakia and I had this conversation quite a while ago, so I'm excited to be able to bring it to you today. At the time of the episode was recorded the website for Prevention Meets Fashion wasn't up but now it is. So you can see that in the show notes and check out the events calendar. I love that the condom streetwear fashion show is an annual event.Nhakia has a lot of fabulous things going on through this nonprofit. And it was really interesting to hear about her creative process and what brought her to form the nonprofit.Before we jump into that conversation. I want to remind you that I will be hosting my first in-person retreat in Bali next March, that's March 2023. If you're hearing this and it's pre March, 2023, there may still be space. So be sure check out daliakinsey.com/retreat to see the details. It's going to be an amazing event. As always it will be centered on LGBTQIA+ BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color). However, if you are not an LGBTQIA+ BIPOC person, that doesn't mean that you can't come to the retreat.There will be a couple of healing circle events. That'll be sacred spaces for QTBIPOC folks. So those will not be events where everybody can come in and take up space. However, there will be plenty of other events that are for everyone. So if you were interested in taking a more liberatory approach to your wellness and you've done a lot of work on your own and you feel like this could be a catalyst for your growth then definitely check it out. It isn't going to be a beginner oriented event as far as healing work goes. If you've never done therapy, if you've never, read a self-help book, if you've never been in any sort of coaching situation and you're kind of new to the concept of systemic oppression having an impact on your wellness, then it's probably not the place for you to start.The retreat really is designed for people who already have an awareness of these things and are wanting to dig deeper and really wanting to be in a space where they can totally unwind and focus on the physical experience of comfort and freedom in their body. So that it's something we'll be able to re-create with ease when we get back home. The facilities are gorgeous. We'll have a chef cooking for us three meals a day. There are lots of excursions planned. We'll have one-on-one time with a Balinese healer. There will be massages. It's going to be really luxurious, but then at the same time, a little crunchy, which is totally my vibe. We'll have a touch of the outdoors. We'll be in an eco-friendly setting, but then at the same time, we're going to have access to all of our creature comforts.It's going to be great. If you can join us, you absolutely should. Go to daliakinsey.com/retreat to reserve your spot. Alright, let's get on into this conversation.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.My name is Nhakia Outland. I am the founder and president of Prevention Meets Fashion Incorporated. We are a 501C3 nonprofit based in Philadelphia, but we will go anywhere. And our mission is to increase sexual health and knowledge in communities of color Black, LGBTQIA and nonbinary communities through fashion advocacy, community education, which stands for FACE. It is a model that I created to be able to look at the intersections of sexual health, reproductive health, racial injustice, disability rights all of these other what I call social determines of health as well into one model, instead of just naming them all the time.We look at the intersections of how many of those can be placed in fashion. How any of those could be placed in advocacy and in community and education, which to our advantage came out as face, which is a ballroom category. Which we're very excited about because my favorite category in ballroom is face.I just love when the community comes out and shines that way like, it seems like nothing else matters, but that person's face. And to see that in community that's really been, you know, hurt so many times again and again especially Black LGBTQ folks that just lights my world up when I go to ballroom competitions.But yes, I'm so excited to finally be a nonprofit. What a lot of people don't know is that we've actually been around for four years. Once I really started getting into the nitty gritty of Prevention Meets Fashion, I realized that it would, it would be so much better in a nonprofit structure to be able to open ourselves to getting grants, to getting more support to writing more curriculum and programming. So a lot of folks that follow us on Instagram and they just, you know, sometimes think that we just post, but that's the labor of love of hours of research putting snippets together to have those words in the little, in the little caption.I actually take the time my interns take the time my volunteers take the time to research things, to make sure that we're getting our perspective right.To make sure that we're getting voices heard. On our Instagram, we take it very seriously, I once said when I started this, that to me, that Instagram is just not a place for us to post pretty pictures it really is more than that for us.I remember when I first started, I talked about how I used fashion come out to my family over a certain, a number of years as queer.And I showed a picture of when I got my hair shaved on one side and how freeing that was to me for many aspects for one, I had just lost my partner.So you weren't a kid, you were an adult living outside of the home.Yes. And so I had just lost my partner and, you know so when I had shaved the side of my head, it was a freeing moment. Not only for me verbalizing my queer identity, but also that that I was shedding something that reminded me of my partner, cause they always liked my hair. So I was talking about that and someone took my whole face, whole caption, put it on there, their Instagram and people were tagging me like this is your face.And I'm like, do you know that I'm a real person? And they literally were using it. The message was correct. I think before that, but I'm a real person like you use my whole face and my whole story.Was this person, a member of the community? Yes! This person was a member of the community and a fellow, a sex educator. And this was not the first time that they did this. They actually. Took other posts and I had to call him out on it, you know, and I don't what to do that, but at least give me my credit, especially when it's my face. So I stopped a little bit from actually using my images. And the purpose of me using my images, was one, for people to know that I'm a real person, but for, two to show representation to y'all queer Black folks out there that that don't get seen as much.And to let them know that, you know, we're here, we're in every profession. You know, come and visit us, you know, and as I was like, really taken back by this, so I stopped showing my image for a while, but then the pandemic happened and people were, were like, you know, I don't think people know that you're Black owned or queer owned at all because you don't have no pictures of yourself anymore. So I began posting pictures of myself, again, posting pictures of my interns, posting pictures of my community stuff that I was doing. I do admit that I am a little bit shy and I don't give myself enough credit with Prevention Meets FashionI'm a social worker by trade and I decided to take everything, all of my experience and I absolutely adore the meaning behind fashion. And how has been used in black communities. How is being used in queer communities? Oftentimes when our voices were silenced, our clothes were loud.Interesting that you made the point though, that people don't understand how damaging it is to a small creator, small business to steal ideas, but that is the story of the Black creative's life. Like that's the story of small queer businesses. Cause you think about all the ways in which queer folks, especially queer folks of color lead the way with culture and with fashion.And how often is that stolen? And the original designer creator doesn't ever see the profits that come from their original baby, their original idea.And I, I struggled too, along the lines, just to piggyback off of that. I struggle with the Black designers who have made it.And a lot of them, you listen to a lot of them speak and how they built this from the ground up. And then they make it sort of speak and then they give credit to the Italian designer. So the white designer, oh, about what's underneath their fish and house. Then my name wouldn't be out here. The same thing with music.Like why do we feel like we have to partner with someone that don't look like us to make us big. Right. And I struggle with it. Can you speak to that? Because I've seen that issue even in myself, even as I've decided to center my show, to center my work around my queer identity and my POC identity, I still find myself being drawn when people like dangle something in front of me, that's not serving the community that I believe I'm meant to serve and I'm called to serve. I still feel like, oh, it's a shiny object because I, like so many people, was raised to think proximity to whiteness is proximity to success. And even though, especially the way things are shifting now, we definitely don't need them.People need us, but because we're the ones who've been socialized to believe the opposite, we keep falling for it. So what do you do when you see that in yourself? Is that something that can only be addressed on a systemic level? Where you never affected by that?I think I would be lying if I say I wasn't affected by that. Even if you look at my identity as a social worker, right. I was trained as a social worker, a lot of the curriculum is based on white supremacist thoughts and ideas and racism. And it wasn't until last year that I found out that there is a whole curriculum around African centered social work. I've been a social worker for over 15 years and I never, ever outside of the Black NASW (The National Association of Black Social Workers), I never knew it was a social work curriculum around African centered and how to work with Black and African community.And so I started taking those courses and webinars during the pandemic to help myself unlearn the white supremacist culture and ideologies, that I was perpetuating, you know. The whole fact that white supremacy culture values, individualism, right? And then you make it and worry about everything else later. For Black community and Black queer communities, what's innate to us is to have a village behind us, but yet I was pushing back on this because it's like, I was conditioned and raised to you're an individual. We get on the young rappers, these young kids when they make it and they bring their village with them. Yes. It's some folks that you don't necessarily need to bring with you and that's a different story, but the fact that we get on known for bringing their community with them, that's something that's innate to them and they don't know it.You know? I was even talking about how we was taught to look at pouring liquor out as being something bad. Right. And it wasn't until I started really looking into our culture that we did this historically, we did this to our ancestors. We do that when we do libations right. I've even looked into fashion and, and death and how cultures around the world use fashion to symbolize death and how our young folks do that with t-shirts.Right? So the t-shirts is so much more powerful. And I, I talked about this on my Instagram and how a t-shirt is not just a t-shirt. It has a lot of social justice and a lot of racism behind the t-shirt. Because if you think about it, t-shirts were made out of cotton Black folks pick the cotton, what Black folks couldn't afford to have the whitest of the white.So when you could afford the whitest of the white, you know, it was valued. So you, you didn't go outside, you didn't get dirty. And those, you know, those was your Sunday's best. That was for you dressing up to put on this image that we're not poor, that we're not these feeble-minded people, that people, that don't look like us, that we were.So if you look at that today, think about how we get dressed up to go to work. Think about how we get dressed up to go in, in town. You know, all of those things, whether it be young folks or either of us know that we're doing it, it has historical roots and that's what we want to bring to Prevention Meets Fashion.And we really want folks to understand that fashion is not frivolous. It means a lot. And to look at it as such is doing it a disservice, you know us wanting nice things comes from a historical racist background, you know, we want it, our parents, our grandparents, our great, great grandparents wanted us to have nice things.Nice things meant something.I don't know if you've had a chance to visit the African-American history museum in DC. So there's the way they've got it set up. It's basically, you start out at the lowest/roughest points in Black American history. And then as you go up in the building, you know, we bounce back. So you're like traumatized at the start. Then they have this resting area it's really pretty where people break down, you know, there's water flowing where you can just relax and recover and then you continue on up and you get to where people are clearly developing their own culture, which is a blend of who we were before we were brought to the United States and who we became here.And there's this big section on fashion after the civil war, among Black Americans being so incredibly important as not just a status marker, but part of that desire to prove and validate your humanity through things that people can see as soon as they look at you. So part of that was definitely beautiful when you think about the intentions behind it, but then heartbreaking when you think about how many of us internalize that belief that we have to prove and validate our humanity instead of just letting white supremacy be a white supremacist problem. But it really explains why that's such a big part of Black American culture to be well-dressed and why we still give people the side eye when they come to church and holey jeans and flip flops, how that's like beyond most Black folks comprehension, but you see it all the time and white American churches, but they don't have to validate their humanity.So they don't have that same tradition of you need to try and wear your status markers.Last month on the 20th, we had our annual fashion condom show and our theme was Wearing Social Justice. And so we had the designers who are novice designers from the community. Everything that we do at Prevention Meets Fashion is community based and community led.And so we had these designers and we wanted to see their interpretations of wearing social justice. So folks picked to do condom designs as bell-bottoms condom designs as denim, as pocketbooks that resembled like the disco ball for music and the best in hair, because, you know, right now we're going through hair discrimination laws, and in Pennsylvania, they still haven't signed on to the Crown Act.And so it was amazing. What is that? I don't think I know about that.So the Crown Act is a bill that is trying to get passed in each state to ban hair discrimination among black folk. So the right to wear our own hair. So we have to get a law to have to be able to on hair and to be able to close this out that we created for creativity, for style or survival, we have to have a law to be able to do that.Wow. I mean, I knew that that was needed. I didn't think we were anywhere near that point. So I didn't even know because you see, I have my hair dreaded, but I live in a very black area and a lot of the stigma has fallen away. But I know when I first dreaded my hair, people still told me, oh, you won't ever be able to get a job with your hair dreaded.But I actually told HR I was doing it before I did it, which is ridiculous that I would have to, because it's such a natural style, but it was never an issue. But everyone around me kept saying it would be. And that wasn't because they were paranoid. That was based on real experiences they had.Yeah. And, and like what you said, like unpacking what you said about you having to go to HR to see if you could lock your hair. And I don't ever think I've heard of a conversation where someone that wasn't black had to go to HR and say, can I dye my hair blonde? We think about things like that.I remember when I first started coloring my hair, which I was well into my career. I've always wanted to color my hair, but that held me back because I needed a job. You know, I had kids I needed to provide for myself when I got to this point in my life where I just said F it, like, I want to color my hair.So I went to the extreme, the first thing I did was dye my hair blue, and then it went to green and then it went to blonde. I was affirmed at my job because it's an LGBTQ organization, but I don't think if I would've stayed in counseling, that would have been appropriate. Right. And I don't know if I would have been as happy because that's the way I express myself through my hair. I express myself through my clothes. So those jobs where I had to wear suits and shoes all day, I just couldn't do it.I really couldn't like I have no problem wearing a suit but I want to put on sneakers with it, you know, on a platform with it. Or I want to wear a military boot. I don't want to have to, to look at or to appear as people think women identifying folks shouldlook.Yes. Well, and that's a whole nother layer. I think with identity and clothing is if you don't identify in this super binary way that. It creates even more anxiety for you to be in work environments that are really rigid about how they want people to dress, because it's an important, maybe to some people it's not important at all. But to me, even the fact that I've really like plain clothes is a big part of my identity.It required some level of awarenesst about how much I detested dresses to get to this plain point that we're at right now. This was a process. So in your experience professionally, how much does the stress of having to dress in ways that don't suit you? How negative of an impact can that have on people?Well, it definitely could have a negative impact on your mental health. I mean, it does have an impact on your mental health, right? Because I think we throw around a term if you look good, you feel good a lot, but it's actually true. It's actually when you look good and feel good, it's actually science behind it and the endorphins and everything that's in your, that feel good in your body.It increases it. You know? I know that when, you know, my eyebrows are not done or my hair not done, I feel completely down and you can tell in my clothes because I dress that way as well. And then when I get my eyebrows done, I feel like everything is better.It definitely has a connection. And I've talked about it numerous times on our Instagram and in person. And so, so even like what you said, even the folks who get up and don't want to iron and just throw something on you're intentionally thinking whether you realize it or not, that's your aesthetic, you're intentionally doing that.That's what you like to wear, you know? So I, I really don't like when folks say, they can't dress. Some folks dress to what they think they should be dressing like or what someone told them, they look nice in and then they keep repeating it over and over. Instead of looking inside and figuring out what do I like, what do I look nice in and taking that component and then building upon it.So, what we want to teach people to do is what, first off, like what, what makes you feel good? Let's start there, right? Don't look in this magazine or social media or whatever you're looking at. And, and copy someone else's feel-good outfit because most of the time that's a stylist put that on that person.They might not even like what they, what they put on a stylist, put that on them. Right. So what makes you feel good? And let's build upon that. And this is your look. There is no one way to be or dress queer. And I think when we Google, how to dress queer, you get white, skinny folks, you know, you don't get, or if you do get a Black image is always us in this masc of center look right.You don't get that androgynous type person. And I consider my aesthetic very androgynous and athletic. You don't get that. I'm a chameleon, my clothes you will get anything from super sexy to super athletic wear. And I merge them somehow because that's me, you know, but it took me years to figure that out.It took me years to be comfortable with it.Tell me more about your journey to this point, because I know for a lot of people, fashion is so problematic because it's been linked to promoting only one body type as attractive. Promoting a lot of classism and a lot of fixation on really just keeping the fashion machine going.So we think about fast fashion and there was a time in US history where it would have been normal to get clothes from someone who made them in the community. And these would be clothes that would last you a very long time. They were probably cut to fit your particular body, the way you wanted it to fit.And you could wear it for years. Whereas now you see a lot of manipulation in the marketing to push people to say, this is what you should be wearing right now. And it just doesn't feel like a good place to a lot of people when it comes to self-expression. So what was your journey like with your relationship with fashion and when did you see the connection between your social work and the sexual health background that you have and what you're doing now?My connection to fashion began early on. My parents were military parents. And so when they got out the military and I was old enough to be able to look at things and, and see and understand their military background, we would look in these huge photo albums. And I would just like adore my mom and like her bell bottoms and her afro, I have finer hair, as you can see really loose wave, like type thing.My mom has really coarse hair. I always envy not being able to have an Afro, I've never had that type of hair, like, you know? And so and I joke my dad doesn't have hair anymore, but my mom, like, you have his side of the family hair.And so I'm like, okay. I grew up looking at these photo albums and looking at my mom and bell bottoms and, you know, clogs and artists other stuff. So I would like, I immediately gravitated towards all of that because of course I wanted to look like my mom. But slowly but surely my mom took this to the extreme and started putting me in girly, girly stuff.Like, you know, all the lace and everything was one color. And I rebelled. And so she started taking me to the store and like, what do you want? And I'm very close to my brother. And so I'm like, I want to look like my brother. And so I would pick out sweatpants and like a real big shirt and I had body self-conscious issues. I didn't realize until I got older, like why boys and men like, now I know that they were sexualizing me.So I didn't like that attention. I started putting on baggier clothes, but yet I would still put on a heel. So I would wear the baggy, this is the style you see now I did back in the nineties. Right. And so I didn't see that it's a Mary J came out and I literally broke down and cry because I was like, here's this woman who was like wearing baggy jeans, wearing baggy shirts. But people still liked her.I didn't even think of that as a turning point, but yeah. Now that you say it, that totally resonates. So, you know, it was first that Little Kim stage, that overly sexy stage. I went through that and my mom allowed me to, like, I credit my mom a lot for allowing me to, to develop who I am today. Overtime. I, again, I started coming into my fashion aesthetic, which obviously I went back to the athletic wear. But as I was developing, that was where I was leaning towards. And it was this point in my life where I know I started realizing that I was attracted to other genders other than the opposite gender.I didn't really act on it when I was younger. Because Me wearing the sweatpants and shirts. Like I remember the first time someone called me a dyke and I cried. So I stopped dressing like that and went overly sexy again.Right. Totally not me. And I was trying so hard.And that was even before you started noticing that you were also attracted to women. Oh, that's interesting.And so then, you know, it was my brother who was like, you know, stop this, you know, he's younger a year younger than me. He's like, stop this. You be you.Like, so what, like, if they call you a dyke, you be the best dyke. it doesn't even matter. Like you, you be, you, you don't, you don't change for no one else. You don't do you. You dress the way you want to dress. So then, you know, I started dialing down the bagginess and came to a happy medium.But over that time, I started realizing that I was using my fashion to come out. I was using my fashion to display my mood. Fashion would actually help my mood. I was really depressed when I was younger.I was a teen mom twice, but when I became a mom at 17, of course, that dialed back because now I had to put that money into my child. And I remember friends that went to high school with me was like oh, she fell off, you know, I knew it wasn't going to last, like, it was almost like they was waiting for it to like, I knew that wasn't going to dress this way anymore.You know, now she's a mom and I'm like, no, it's the opposite. I could still afford it, but is it worth it? You know, my priorities started to shift now it was on to my two children that I had to raise. Right. And so it wasn't that I fell off.I grew up. I think folks they grow up at their own. And so when I see folks spending all this money on stuff and making them happy,I'm like, do you, who cares what anyone else is saying? You want to spend $400 on a belt spend it, you know, but just make sure that your priorities, they're straight as well.As a social worker, how do you tell the difference between a maladaptive coping mechanism that is hurting the person and they probably actually need something else, something more sustainable and something that just, it doesn't hurt, you know, or it really is something that brings them joy? How do you recognize the difference in yourself even?I mean, well, of course I did self-assessment but for clients, I do a little assessment. Right. And I don't shame them. I remember it was this client who, and I just told this story, but I remember it was a client who just got diagnosed with HIV. I remembered this and she was a young mother, had three cute little boys and she was living in an abandoned minivan and she just wanted to keep buying her sons these Jordans.And of course Jordan's are a hundred dollars to, depending on the size of your feet, a piece. So she was spending close to $500 every couple of months or sneakers, but yet living in abandoned minivan. And so I didn't shame her for it, but when she came in, I, you know, I said, oh, those are really nice sneakers, but what would that look like if you had took just a hundred dollars a day and went to the sneaker store and let's say for some Nike, some $40 Nike's for each of your kids or target some light up sneakers.Cause they were little. What would that have looked like? And then save the rest for you to be able to get a hotel room. So you can have all your kids in one space or save up to get an apartment so that you can have running water and heat. What would that have looked like? So I challenged this client without shaming them to look at how they were spending their money.Yes. That made you feel good because you needed that you needed to feel good about your situation that you was in. So it made you feel good to be able to buy your kids, these sneakers, to be able to have your kids look like other kids, but in the interim, you were hurting yourself and you were hurting your kids because you really didn't have it.And so I take approaches like that with clients, especially when they use fashion as a coping tool. Fashion does not solve everything. You can put on a million dollars worth of clothes and still be sad and depressed or hate your body. We need to fix that. And then you can add those other layers on for some folks, you know, clothing protects them, but that protection is temporary.When you take that off, then what you just, you, you have to be satisfied with who you're looking at in a mirror. So it is definitely as much deeper, you know, and so through that we created our Affirming Fashion program, which is a program where we give clients clothing on emergency basis.So we don't have an income threshold or anything. If you need clothing, you need clothing, and if we have it, we're going to give it to you. We also do groups about affirming fashion and surveys to get the community feel on what affirms you. You know, we have a lot of gender non-conforming non-binary folks that follow us and it's affirming to them to have fashion that affirms their identity.And so we want to do that. We want to be this resource. So we, we definitely talk about how fashion is affirming, how fashion is self-care and how fashion is more than a look at Prevention Meets Fashion.I think affirming clothes can be really tough if you're still a kid and you don't get to make those decisions, or maybe you just don't have the money to dress yourself the way you want to. I've seen a couple of nonprofits helping with things like binders, but then I've also wondered for younger kids too how do you guide people on dressing in a way that affirms your gender that can't also hurt you? Because some people are so deeply uncomfortable and they're not in a position to get surgery now and they want to bind 24 hours a day.You know, does the nonprofit also deal with education around that piece? Sometimes you can't get a hundred percent there with what it's going to take for you to really be comfortable and be yourself, but in the meantime, you don't want to hurt yourself. Yes, we actually do, but we actually bring folks in to talk about that. I could read a million books on binding and what it's like, but part of being a community organization is getting those folks with that lived experience. So we absolutely bring folks in or connect folks to resources that they can then ask those questions to someone. I never want to speak on something that I haven't really experienced or feel that I don't know enough about.And binding is one of those things. Like I know that it can be affirming, but I also know from the medical side, how damaging it can be. Right. So I definitely connect folks to the needed resources that they need to get those questions, especially with younger kids, because they shouldn't be binding 24 hours a day.You know, I do know that it's a time limit depending on how old you are with how long you should be binding or even if it is appropriate to bind at that age, whatever age it is. As far as clothes go, I really haven't hit any younger parents really talk to me about that is mainly teenagers and up, but younger folks, I really haven't had anyone.And now that you brought it up, but watch I get a call I really haven't had any younger folks or parents talk to me about how they can dress their younger kids and affirm from them. For one, I commend a parent if they do reach out to me, because then that means that they are a step ahead of parents who absolutely will not be having it at all.Right. And so I definitely want to guide them in the right direction. As far as affirming fashion and, and wearing the clothes that affirms the youth, but also we got a small grant to hire community members to teach technical skills, such as sewing and crochet. The premise behind it was to also get LGBTQ folks and Black folks involved in stem and how STEAM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) can be a part of fashion, you know, taking that A and doing something with it, but also to give folks a starter for how you can make your own clothes, if you can't afford.Because that's beyond, as affirming clothes cost a lot, you know, androgynous type clothes or all those clothes. They cost a lot. Yeah. There was a time in the nineties when remember almost everybody still was sewing as a hobby and there were craft stores everywhere, and fabric was not expensive, but as fast fashion got cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, it became more expensive to make your own clothes. There were always clothes that you could of course shop in the men's section, which I used to do a lot before puberty, before these inconvenient curves got in the way that make men's wear implausible sometimes without altering. Altering is a really, really handy skill because if you thrift, then you could alter your clothes to make them more gender-affirming.And that's the premise behind the sewing. And so Daisy is our instructor who's coming on board and they use, she, and they pronouns.They are all about like teaching mending and how to up-cycle. And that's something that we want because let's say you get clothes from my Affirming Fashion program, or you go to another, like a trans clothing closet or a thrift store or whatever. And you want to make it your own. Now you have these soft skills to be able to make this outfit your own using other stuff that's in your house. So they talk about how you can take a t-shirt apart and use parts of it to make this how you can. If you have jeans that are really old how you can take the pockets off and make something else out of it, or make a pocketbook out of it, or a book bag or bag or whatever you want to call it.So using what you have to be able to lessen that financial barrier that's out there. Because right now, as you said, a few minutes ago, it's very performative. Every designer right now has a genderless fashion line right now, because again, they think that folks like you and I are trends and we're, we're not.It's heartbreaking to know that if you're someone who may be hasn't thought it through, or you're kind of new to the concept that like this always happens, you know, a smaller group of people has a need and the dominant culture refuses to fill it or address it. And the smaller group creates their own solution. And then everybody sees the sales and swoop in and put the smaller companies out of business.So I could see some people thinking, oh, this is great. Look at what Zara is doing all of the sudden and thinking, oh, this company supports me. They see me. Maybe they do. Maybe they don't like, I'm not trying to throw any shade at them in particular. But think of all the other companies who have to charge higher prices because they've got smaller production and maybe also they have ethical production, it just happens to cost more money.There are so many levels to the benefits and really thinking about, oh, what's a garment that's going to last once your sense of fashion kind of levels out. I mean, there are some people who just love to continually buy accessories, but I feel like as I've gotten older now that I know exactly what I feel best in, I don't really have any desire to keep adding things to my wardrobe.I pretty much wear things til the wheels fall off and then replace them with something that almost looks exactly the same.Well, you definitely I'm blanking on the term, but I think it is called a repetitive fashion and you're not the only one that does it. Like Simon Cowl does it. Right. White t-shirts basic pants. Right. You're not the only one that does that. And this is actually the psychology behind why folks do that, you know, it's cause people remember that. That's your brand, that's your look. So people think that they think that they're being not intentional, but they are being intentional, if that makes sense. And another thing about the pandemic, like over pandemic, I started posting about shopping your own closet, right? So a lot of times we have those staples in our closet. But because we keep adding stuff on top of stuff, they get buried, they get buried. So I've challenged people to go into their closet, take everything out and look at everything right.And put it into I wore it. I don't wear it, you know, needs to be donated type of piles. And I've even challenged myself to do it. Cause I'm one of those people that see something like, oh, I don't have this. And then I go in my closet and like, oh shoot. I do, you know, because I wasn't organized. And so I challenged myself to get organized and to look at what I had in my closet and just add staples that I didn't have instead of rebuying, rebuying and rebuying.And I donated a lot. I gave a lot as well. I am a fan of clothing swaps, but of course when COVID happened, a lot of folks, you know, weren't able to do that. A lot of folks. Especially with the information going out that COVID can live on your clothes. It couldn't, you know, people were really afraid to like swap clothes and stuff like that, but I'm a fan of it.Because you know, I can give someone something that I no longer wear and gets something that's essentially new. Cause that's what you're looking for. Right. That's the feeling that you're looking for, that you're getting something new that you're getting a package. And I know you asked earlier, how does that lead to sexual health?And that is one of the love languages, right to receive stuff. So I think that's why also gravitate towards fashion and, and stuff like that because that's something you can receive. And I noticed my love language I love to receive and I love to give right. So that's how it also relates to sexual health.But also we've been talking about how it relates to sexual health since we began this conversation since we're talking about identities and expression, and all of that is tied up with sexual health. Sexual health is not just about sex. It's about the mind, body and spirit it's about everything. And so when you look good, you feel good when you're comfortable in what you're in, you're able to express that and have that confidence with your partner or partners.You know, a lot of times people don't wear lingerie or don't wear, you know, cute underwear because they're not happy with their body. Right. And what would that look like to have a partner? That's been like, you know what? You, you look nice in those boxers. It doesn't have to be based on what you see on TV or any of it.You look good in those boxers. And just that one little thing could change someone's whole mood and feeling, you know, instead of them looking at what society projects as appealing or whether it's, you know, a male or female gaze, you know? I know I've had to personally check people because I don't like to see cutesy underwear.I don't like it. Give me a pair of boxers in a heartbeat. I will, I will wear boxers. Like I like boys shorts. I like boxers. I like full-coverage underwear. I don't have thongs. And, and again, as a, as someone who studies sexual health, that's not good for folks with vaginas anyway it can cause micro lesions, like it's just not sanitary.Oh. So underwear like that, that's not good for vaginal health could probably increase your risk for STI because you'll have more tiny cuts that you can't say. Now that's a bigger sham. That's a, I think of all the layers, because the part of the country where I was raised in sex ed in the school system was basically abstinence.And that was also kind of the story at home. So certainly didn't get any kind of sex ed that would be useful for same sex couples. And even when you go to a physician, even now in 2021, No one seems to know anything about STIs between women. No one seems to know, like there's just not enough research there, or maybe people aren't going to continuing ed classes.I don't know what's going on, but there are so many knowledge deficits that I feel we have. And then there's so many things that culturally cis women in particular have been trained to do that compromise your sexual health even further, like removing all of your pubic hair. That was another barrier that could help prevent STI and oh wow.And nobody tells you this stuff before you remove it. And what if you removed it permanently? Which a lot of people did when that becameWell people to today still don't care. I go in our, during our condo Fisher show, I did a condom party and I talked about. All things condoms. Cause we always do that for our condom party. And someone that was on the Zoom was like, well, I was showing them a dental dam and showing them how to use a dental dam. And they were like, well, the person I'm with need to remove their hair. And I said, why? You know? And they couldn't tell me why, because I just always thought they need to remove their hair before oral sex.Right. I'm like, no, do you remove your hair before you ask for oral sex? This was a male, someone with a penis and I'm like, do you remove your hair before you ask for, so why are you asking your partner, who they disclose was a cis female to remove their hair? If you're not removing your hair? When like, think of the double standards there.You know, and this is also what images you see. Right? You see you see these images of getting waxed then and everything for female-identified folks, but you never see melody, identify folks get waxed. And if you do, they put them in, they automatically put them into the gay category. They're get like, no, you know, waxing is not an identity.Right. You know, it's a choice, like either you wax or you don't, but that should be someone's choice. I've told people too, if that's something that you want to do wax or shave, use it as a partner activity, like use it as eroticism. Like you shave me, I'll shave you.Like, you know what I mean?Well, I had a question about that, so, and this may be completely bogus or outdated, but. Back in the day, they used to say don't shave don't floss the day before an encounter with a partner that you're not in a closed relationship with or who you've been tested with. Is there any truth to that? It is. It actually is. So again, when you're, when you get waxed or you shave, you want to at least give yourself 24 to 48 hours, because again, you don't know nicked yourself anywhere. You want to give the skin a chance to heal a little bit because you can get infections flossing, your gums, and brushing your teeth.Yes, we do say don't do that as a risk reduction, even though it's a low, a low risk when you're looking at the HIV scale. So it was high, medium, and low. It's a low. It's still a risk. And so, you know, you want to make sure that you're giving people all the information too, so that they can make an informed decision.And I think that's why I don't carry the line anymore, but I used to carry a line of flavored lubes and this particular company actually worked with a dental hygienist to come up with do, that was flavored. That was actually good for your teeth and gums and stuff, because people were worried about their breakfast stuff like this.So they actually came up with one that was really good for oral sex that, so that people wouldn't have to worry about the, the breath,Oh, after tasting like that after,So you ate something or whatever like that it was, it was, yeah. So I thought that was really cool. I, I don't carry them anymore because it upends them mimic.Like I just wasn't, you know, pushing products and I don't have a website anymore. So hopefully once I get my website up and running, I could be able to offer tools like that. Cause I don't think people know that there's options out there, like what it is. Actually. I love debunking myths and you know, a lot of myths come with truth.And if people just know the right thing, then you know, you're doing your due diligence,Yeah. I mean, it's really helpful to have all the information because to me, things that you do to groom your body and fashion, like it's all part of the same thing and everybody has their own aesthetic, but then you, sometimes you form these preferences without knowing what other things you might be sacrificing.So for you, if you can still grow your bush back, you might want it. Like, I don't know, once you weigh it all out, plus, you know, fashion goes in cycles. There was a time when everybody wanted to be totally bare and then people started doing more designs and then some people just want to go all the way back natural. It's interesting though. Once you think about all the different images we're exposed to about this is the ideal body ageism is definitely is a big issue because I don't know that I've ever seen gray body hair depicted anywhere. People get gray hair everywhere, but you just never see it. It seems like people usually don't discover that that doesn't click until they get their first gray body hair and they're like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. I didn't know this was going to happen.Or they shave or they dye it. You know, it's just like this, this scary thing to people that you're aging. And I never looked at it that way when I was little, I used to tell my grandma, I can't wait to get, you know, salt and pepper hair like you.And everybody's like, well, I would dye my hair and I'm like, no, like I love my grandma. I can't wait to look like my grandma. Right. But people try to hide things. And of course I had, I was so happy when I got like two strands and then I cut my hair and it went away and never grew back. So hopefully, hopefully as I age, I get my grandma's salt and pepper hair.I would love that, you know you know, also as remembering her, she passed away, three years ago in April. So yeah, I would love that, you know, I've always embraced my body hair, which I had a conversation with someone is really a touchy subject for me because I'm Muslim and you really can't have body hair.And so it's, so, you know, when I chose to have or keep my body here and my, and if my partners was Muslim, that was an issue. Right. Men and women, both can't have body hair. And so and so that was a huge issue for me in advocating, especially in the sexual health space, where you have advocates, like, yeah, keep your hair. And I'm like, you're not, again, you're not thinking culturally on how something. Cool because of religion.I literally never heard of that before. And I know so many Muslim people.Cleanliness and being clean cleanse for your partner, for your, so yeah, I definitely struggled with things, you know a lot. I get dinged every now and again on it, but yeah, but again, being in public health is like, is, is needed, right?I am a person with a vagina. I don't want infections. I don't want any bacteria. When I'm in the community, I'm walking more. So now you have sweat and, you know materials rubbing against, and that's a barrier. I don't want to shave it. You know, all these different things that you know, that we don't think about. Pubic hair does for us and shields us from.Right, right. That's a really good point. That's so, it's so interesting too. When you think about the things that are going to change in the body as you age, that people don't generally discuss, because they're so cagey about aging, it's it can be very handy for other reasons, too, just as all muscles begin to relax, you know, not everything is going to stay in the same position it was when you were a teenager. So just something else to think about.Where can people connect with your brand now? And when you have people come in doing the tutorials, you said you're not just bound to your state, are these something that people can sign up for online?Yeah. So right now where, you know, obviously I'm trying to raise money so that we can create a website and have a more.This have more of a reach for folks, but right now we're on Instagram, @preventionmeets fashion, and we have a link tree and all of our events all of our donation buttons, everything that we're doing is, is dumped into our link tree. Also you can find me on LinkedIn under my name, Nhakia T Outland MSW.I believe that's how it is on here. Fun fact, I had to change it because I started getting messages from young, white teenagers, like on, on LinkedIn and come to find out, we laughed about it. I met the young man, but he had the same initials as me, cause mines used to be N T Outland and he had the same initials.So all his friends were like DMing me and stuff. So it was really cool. We all got to meet. So now is NT Outland MSW. But yes, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find my business on Instagram @preventionmeetsfashion.And we look forward to connecting with folks and following us and being in community. I love being around people.Thank you so much. If there was one thing that you could share with everyone and they would instantly understand it, internalize it and carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you want to tell people? What would you want people to know?I think what I will want people to know is something I say all the time and that's, be yourself. There's nothing wrong with being yourself. Society tells us so much that we need to be and act like someone else, but what would it look like if we all just were ourselves? I say that all the time, you know, just be yourself. Personally with me, I always say, I am me and people be like, oh, that's problematic.It's not because I am me. I bring me everywhere. I bring me to corporate meetings. I bring me to community meetings. I bring me to parent teacher meetings. I bring me to the bar. You're getting Nhakia. Like you don't get a different version. You're getting me. And that's easiest for me because I don't have to worry about code-switching or remembering what I said or didn't say here or whatever like that. The only thing you might get as you heard on this call is you might get a different outfit. That's about it. You might get a different hair color or a different look. But other than that I'm just me.I love that. Oh, that's beautiful.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It's your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
Philip spends time Dalia Kinsey, the author of Decolonizing Wellness. In their conversation, they dissect the challenges and limitations of the wellness industry for people of color and the LGBTQA+ community. They look at the historical roots of our cascading health crisis and how it intersects with racism and capitalism. The Drop – The segment of the show where Philip and his guest share tasty morsels of intellectual goodness and creative musings. Philip's Drop: Watership Down (novel) – Richard Adams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watership_Down) Watership Down (original animated movie via HBO Max) (https://www.hbomax.com/feature/urn:hbo:feature:GXmlSugJS354_wwEAADDV) Dalia's Drop: Persimmon Takes on Humanity – Christopher Locke (https://www.amazon.com/Persimmon-Takes-Humanity-Enlightenment-Adventures/dp/0990419703/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1656466096&sr=8-1) Special Guest: Dalia Kinsey.
Kris Henry (they/them/theirs) is a radical Jamaican nonbinary creative, an Obeah enby, and an Aborisha in the Lukumì tradition. Kris creates art in many forms—centering their twerk as a spiritual safe space for Black queer, trans and intersex folx. They seek to create authentically empowering, ancestrally connected healing experiences that bring a sense of agency and sovereignty back to the historically marginalized from the inside out. Kris’ first published project is a collection of poetry titled “Love LETTERS”, and their second project, Warri(O)racle, is an online chapbook. Their latest creative baby is The Spiritual Abolitionist Oracle Deck: a radical, Black and queer centered divination tool to affirm the spiritual safety and wellness of Black queer, trans and intersex folx. You can find their projects at www.thespiritualabolitionist.com and follow them on Instagram @kriswithakcreates and @thespiritualabolitionist to see what they’re up to next.This episode we explore:Connecting with your ancestors and trancestorsHonoring our queer ancestors with visibilityGender in the spirit worldProtecting your spiritual energyThis episode is too good to keep all to yourself.Hello. Welcome to another episode of body liberation for all. I'm your host, Dalia Kinsey your Black, queer, holistic registered dietitian and the author of Decolonizing Wellness A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation.Like I've covered on the show before and like I covered the book, healing, growth, there's no end to it. If you are a curious person, if you are a person who's really interested in being as free as possible, you know there is no end point. As soon as you dig in deep and heal one area of your life, another layer appears. It's never over.And something that I have been working on a lot lately is my relationship with spirituality and my reluctance to openly talk about the spiritual traditions that I feel most closely tied to and realizing that I have been socialized/ colonized to normalize Christian beliefs and to not think it's strange when someone believes wholeheartedly in the rapture or in the second coming of Christ, all of that seems perfectly normal. And all the time in the United States, you see people who are professionals, who are academics, blending their Christian belief systemand the work that they do all the time, you see therapists doing their work through a Christian lens. And I don't often find people criticizing that, but that may also be because I'm in Georgia.That said I've been taking a closer look at my reluctance to dig in, to traditional African spirituality in a public way and questioning why do I think that people may see me as less professional if I openly share my spiritual beliefs?What are the assumptions that I'm making? What are the assumptions that I have internalized that make it seem complex to me, to both be a person who believes in science and a person who believes in ancestor veneration? Why does it seem like those two things don't go together? Where does that come from? And what can I do to uproot those beliefs from my own consciousness?So, this conversation is coming from a bit of a vulnerable place because it's something I'm still working through. And I know that at some point I'll face that challenge of not feeling compelled to defend my spiritual beliefs or to counter. Any ignorant statements that imply the ancestor veneration is somehow more primitive than Christianity or somehow less logical than Christianity.Now for any of the atheist fam that's listening. I am sure that it all seems maybe about the same level of illogical. But I will say you were warned that my approach is holistic mind, body, spirit.And this episode, we're leaning heavily into the spirit aspect of that. I do think it is very important for your wellness to have a view to have a belief system that supports who you are as a full person.One of the things that is most nourishing about the traditions I've been exploring lately is that they don't have an element of proselytization. So, you are free to believe whatever affirms you and whatever feels good for you. And that doesn't affect me, and it doesn't have to affect my belief system.That is an enormous departure from the form of Christianity that I practiced in my youth. But it is a deeply liberating approach to spirituality. So, there's room for everyone. And if you already know in your gut, this episode is not for you.Then I'll see you on the 15th. Today am joined by Kris Henry.Kris is a spiritualist and they identify as an Obeah enby and an Aborisha in the Lukumi tradition. So, a lot of the insights that Kris brings us today are coming through that lens. You have to check out their site, www.thespiritualabolitionist.com If you don't immediately fall in love when you see them using twerk in place of work throughout the branding of the site and centering Black queer trans and intersex folks, I don't understand you. They are a fascinating person their book of poetry, entitled love letters, I absolutely love, and I've gotten so much value out of there oracle deck. I love using oracle decks, tarot decks as journaling prompts so that I can really connect to my own will whenever I'm at a crossroads.I've started working with Kris myself and the more I honor ancestral practices, the more empowered I feel in the present tense.I deeply resonate with their goal to create authentically empowering ancestrally connected healing practices that bring a sense of agency and sovereignty back to the historically marginalized from the inside out. Doesn't that just hit you in the heart? Their work is beautiful. This conversation was lovely.Let's get into itBody Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So, I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: Thanks for coming on the show today, Kris.Kris: Thank you for having me.Dalia: I'm so excited.I got my oracle card deck. So originally this is how we met. I saw you posted something on Facebook about your deck pre-sales being ready to go live and what really just grabbed my attention was that it's specifically from the perspective of a queer nonbinary Black person. And how many times is that even an option? Because I know even when I was just looking for a tarot deck or an oracle deck actually made by a Black person, I couldn't find, but a few. And there were others out there where they had Black characters depicted on the card, but it was clearly like exactly the same images from something else.I don't know if you've ever tried to buy a Black Santa, but anybody who has knows the struggle. So sometimes you'll find a quote unquote, Black Santa, but it is the white Santa who's been painted. And sometimes it even has the audacity to chip before Christmas is over. So, it was the same thing. Some of these, I was like, all y'all did was paint these same characters, Black or even worse.I saw a couple from non-Black artists. And it was their concept of Blackness, which we'll just say it was off. It wasn't, it wasn't accurate. So anyway,Kris: Hashtag problematicDalia: Thank you! Then I actually saw you promoting your own art. I was just fascinated. So, I would love to hear about your journey into spiritualism and how you got to the point that you created this for the rest of us, who've been dying to have something exactly like this.Kris: Oh my gosh, you don't even know how many back flips my heart just did that you said that because, I mean, I felt the same way to be totally honest with you.I was looking for a deck that really resonated with me. And I was like, I don't want to feel like a part of me is left out. Like, this is very like cis- het in premise, even though it's Black or this is non-Black, but it's queer kind of thing. And yeah, so that really just warmed my heart. I just had to say, thank you.Thank you for that. So, my journey into spiritualism, well, I was like a very devout Christian when I was in high school and nobody made me go to church or anything. I think like some part of me just knew I needed something spiritual in my life. And then in college I started having like a crisis of faith and just started really questioning a lot of things about the foundations of Christianity.So I was in more of a place where I was like, I don't know what I believe. But in that time, my father's mother passed, and I started seeing and hearing her. And that was my introduction into ancestors, I would say. And that's probably the foundation of where like all my other connections with different spirits and energies and stuff really started.Dalia: How did you feel when that first happened? Because I know me growing up in a, I was made to go to church, so difference there, and there was always a lot of fear around anything that had to do with the dead. At least what I was told was that if you think you heard a deceased, loved one, it's a demon pretending to be them.So, I would have been alarmed, had that happen to me. But what was your experience?Kris: I think what this really came down to is that I was blessed to have relationships with both of my grandmothers while they were alive. So, it was like, I knew their energies. Both of them, like when they passed, I knew it was, they knew it was me kind of thing.And like right before my grandma passed a few months earlier, when we kind of found out that she wasn't going to make it and they were like, just take her home so she can be comfortable for however long she has left kind of thing. She started saying something very like random to me about like asking me what size shoe I wear.And she was like, I just have a feeling you're going to have to wear my shoes. But she was like this hardcore prayer warrior. And there were so many things that she used to do that I didn't understand as a kid, or I thought like, she's just really, really into this and not quite as much as me kind of thing.And, but it's like, they're really like some foundations for spiritual ism and that side of my family, despite being very devoutly, Christian, they're very superstitious about things that kind of let me know. There was other things that folks started hiding in Christianity on that side of my family. So, I think between those two things, I just knew it was her.I literally felt it in the moment that she let go of her existence in this life. And I felt her come to me and then I just started feeling her. It'd be like, grab this while you're at the store. And I would need it like six months later and stuff like that. And then eventually she was like, I need you to make me, she didn't describe it as an altar.Other people call them alters, but she described it as a landing pad. She was like, I need you to make me a landing pad. I need to introduce you some other ancestors. And so that was how she basically taught me how to make an altar. And so I'm spirit taught in a lot of the things that I do, like different spirits, just kind of introduce themselves to me cause they know that like I won't get freaked out and I kind of, you know how to communicate and learn them.I think the foundation of that is that I knew her while she was alive. And so, it was like, I got to be in her energy while she was alive. And I knew it was her when she passed. Yeah.Dalia: That really resonates the idea that even in families that have become very deeply interested in Christianity or that's the only religious practice they associate with that doesn't mean that all of the old spiritual practices are gone.And it's something that I've seen pop up a lot of places, the accusation or the false idea that Black Americans who are descendants of enslaved people have no culture because slavery interrupted all of that. And somehow, we just magically became nothing but property. And there are even some Black Americans who believe that, like we have nothing, but it's not true.It may be took different forms and our culture has evolved to be something that you don't find on the continent. It has become something else, but at no point, did we become culture free or spirituality free and only have the option of what, you know, your oppressor offered you. It always becomes some kind of hybrid version of what we were before and who we are now.So, I've been reading more about hoodoo and how you can see a lot of practices you see, and who do come from specific indigenous practices that people might still practice a little bit in Africa, not as much because colonization also affected people's relationship with indigenous religions there, but you can see that people were brought here and then became like an amalgamation of all the different religious practices.It wasn't coming from one specific area. So, it becomes a reflection of the diaspora and you find it everywhere. You just don't always recognize where it came from.Kris: Exactly. And that was what I would actually go to say that that applies to Black people globally. Cause my family is actually Jamaican. And I like work with Christian spirits, but I also practice Obeah and those two things are treated like they're totally different.And Obeah is still like illegal because it's associated with curses and hexes, but people don't know that a lot of those laws came from when Obeah men were giving slaves poison to poison their masters and were giving slaves or enslaved people, rather because I'm like reprogramming that one in my brain.But we're giving them tokens for a courage to rebel and things like that. Because before that white people were still going to Obeah men in Jamaica too. So, it was just like, but it's different when you start using this stuff to mess with their systems. Right? So that's where a lot of like the witchcraft laws aroundreally began. It's like rooted in this tradition of rebellion. And I don't know, it just never felt mutually exclusive for me because both of my grandmas were Christians. And so, it's like, despite the fact that Obeah is really what connects me to my ancestors and through my ancestors connects me to a lot of other stuff.It's like, I know that like a lot of Christian spirits have my back because my grandmother is prayed over me, like to them tooDalia: So, some of these other spirits are not deceased blood relatives. They could be spirits who have been looking out for your family for a while.Kris: Exactly. And that's the thing for a lot of Black people globally like that.I really try to impart is that. You can be the one who is restoring some tradition from 600 years ago and developing a new way of relating to this spirit that could just recognize like, oh, hey, you know, you're a descendant of this like bloodline that I have like a pact with or whatever. So as a lot of people are really waking up to these things, you know, a lot of these spirits are like, oh, you might actually be open to be in the one I can talk to you now.Dalia: Now when it comes to that, was there a recognizable alter in hindsight, in your grandma's house?The one who said she needed a landing pad; did she have one?Kris: So, both of my grandmothers had like these just different like display case things with everybody's funeral programs or like a wall wave and yeah, one time actually, when my mom on. On my mom's side, she basically says like, yeah, I like to keep everybody's programs.Cause my mom used to do it. Like, and one time she saw my altar and she totally rearranged it somewhere else. She like brought me something and she didn't go, this was my author. She was just like, well, I just saw you had this right here. And I thought it made sense to do it like this. And she completely like perfectly made an altar and she knows nothing about that stuff just from seeing it so many times without a name though.Dalia: That's so interesting because I never thought about that saving the programs. And that is so interesting. Yes, absolutely. I have a ton of relatives who do that, who feel very Christian and that's all they are, but like my mother is half Jamaican and half Cuban and I know just, they worked so hard to break people away from their traditional ways that feels like even in the family members, there is this fear around all things that aren't recognizable as part of Catholicism or part of another branch of Christianity. Even the family members that, you know, in Cuba, the mixing of Santeria and Catholicism,but then some people are like, oh no. Even if their neighbors and the rest of the town says, this is normal, and this is what we do here. So have you had any tension like that with anybody in the family or you've been able to just stay focused on what you knew was right? And you were affirmed by your two grandmas?Kris: Yeah, it's definitely more so the second one, I like. I don't know that I've really been like super close to a whole bunch of my family. Like, as I just got older, because I was just more so in community where I was, and my family didn't necessarily live near me, you know? So, I wouldn't necessarily be the person who was like traveling across the country for a bunch of family events.So, in that way, it's like, I mean, if somebody does have a problem with me, they probably just keep their distance. And I don't know, but the family members that I'm close to are all really, really cool about it, but also just because they know me as a person. So, it's like, nobody's looking at me like, oh, Kris is just evil.Dalia: That's a blessing in itself. You don't need that extra, heat from family.Kris: Yeah. And so, I don't know. I feel like if I have a feeling like somebody does feel like that, I just kind of keep my distance from them. And I do think internally I had to work, lose some things like both with my queerness and with my spirituality on that front.But over time, like my sister burns ancestor money now she'll hit me up. Like, what should I do to like, thank the ancestor because this money burns has just brought in some clients, like what's going on.And I had a cousin hit me up one time was like, what's this aura cleanse business about?Definitely some of like my family's minds have open or they felt led into just trying some stuff and seeing how they can work their realities and things based off seeing me. So that's been really good.Dalia: I love that, like you said, other ancestors or other spirits in general might recognize that you are the entry point into helping the family reclaim old practices, but then it also seems like living family may recognize you are the entry point to reconnecting to something that they've lost.Kris: Wow. I hadn't really thought about it like that, but yeah.Dalia: With the queerness, when did that come into your awareness? So, you were voluntarily, actively experiencing spirituality in high school, through a Christian Church where you aware of your queerness then, or were you in a church where that wasn't a problem.Kris: So, I don't think I was really aware of my queerness in high school, at least not like consciously. I think I became aware of my friend sometime in college around my junior year of college, I would say when I was just like dating more and hoeing more so, and senior year was my first queer relationship and we were together for a little while.And so, when it became like, just kind of clear that that was serious, that I wasn't like experimenting, I was really embracing like, no, I can just, I'm like just queer, you know, I can, I can have really queer relationships. At that point, I was like, all right, well, I'm gonna have to tell my family.They, cause I'm not like I'm obviously not going to like hide my relationships and stuff like that. Like that was just my mentality at that time was just, well, if like where there's going to be some problems, we might as well just find out now, you know? But I don't think anybody was really like actively homophobic or at least not like intentionally, because I do come from a Jamaican family.Like my mom sometimes will say like really insensitive stuff and I'll be like, Ooh, that was like really hurtful. But in hindsight, I can see like, she's trying, you know, she was trying, but there's like a cultural learning curve and stuff. And she wouldn't like, when I learned how to just communicate, like this hurts me, she would adjust her behavior rather than being like super reactive.So even looking back with that, like things where I would've been like, yeah, I was dealing with homophobia and stuff from my family, it was more like from a place of ignorance, it wasn't from a place of like malice or like anybody was going to disown me or anything like that, you know? And so, yeah. And then when I came out as non-binary, that was in 2019.So that was more recently that I came out to myself and then like to my family and stuff. Oh, it was a lot harder with my pronouns. Dalia: Oh my goodness. The struggle is real. How, what was that process like for you? Because I feel like in hindsight, so I was born in 81. I'm going to be 40 this year.And so, we didn't have a lot of language that we have now in English. And its weird how language can kind of bind you. It's hard to conceive of a concept that doesn't exist in your language, but at the same time, this is the colonizer's language. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any of my ancestors’ indigenous languages, even though I speak Spanish because of my Cuban ancestry.Again, that's another colonizers language. So, I'm sure there was more room and gender wasn't as binary and some of these languages, because I know culturally the binary was not a thing in a lot of the cultures that we are linked to by blood, but for me, even trying to express, I knew I was never hyper femme. I always hated hyper fem things, but then I also thought, well, what part of this is just how we're socialized to think about femininity?And for a while, it was just like, well, I'm just a bunchy woman, but then in relationships with women, they were like, hmmm, you're absolutely not that. And then I'm like, oh, I'm an aggressive femme. Just trying to find the language and then trying to find which pronouns are mine, it's been such a journey. I find sometimes I'll even mis-gender myself, but lately what's been feeling right is no pronouns at all. And my mother growing up, even though she, her are her pronouns, she was always told us you never use someone's pronouns while they're in the room. Like, if I would say her talking about my mother, she would pop me in the head, not like super hard, but like, I'm right here.I'm your mother. I'm right here. Don't talk about me like I'm not here. And she said that it was a Jamaican thing, but I have not heard that consistently.I'm like, is it, where does that come from? Have you heard that before? Like being a thing, that even cis people say don't use pronouns while I'm standing right here?Kris: No, not in my family, but I'm so intrigued when I hear stuff like that, because it does sound like indigenous in nature.Dalia: It's weird. And then I mentioned it just someone else trying to explain, I don't use any pronouns at all, but some people, mostly straight people have been reading no pronouns as hostile to LGBTQIA+ people, but I'd heard other people saying it too.So I don't know I'm in like this weird place of like didn't we always know we were non-binary, but we just weren't using the word non-binary and isn't that just a big ass umbrella. And that's why so many of us are like, am I in the right place? Cause it's like such a big room.Kris: Exactly. Yeah. I because I think if I had the language, I probably would've started going by.Non-binary when I started going by Kris when I was 12, because I didn't have language for it, but I was like, it just sounds less like a girl's name, you know? Cause like my birth name was Kristen and so my family would call me Kristin, but everybody else in my life had called me Kris since that age, you know?And so it was like, I was thinking about it. I was like, if I would've had the language back then that probably would have been the moment that I would have been like, yeah, no, this is it's because this is like who I am and just feeling very much outside of a lot of the language and almost feeling like I existed just outside of a lot of people's concepts of what masculine feminine are and like, and I think that's divine.You know, and I think my connections with all these different spirits and all these different realms has just continued to affirm that. Like when you really start seeing the vast variety of realms that there are, it makes sense. How many of us are probably connected to all of these realms that are really just figuring out a new way to exist and new ways to express ourselves.But you're also not the first person ever I've known who doesn't use any pronouns and is just like, I know two people who just use their first initials and they're like, my pronouns are K you know.Dalia: That gives me an idea, that actually is really helpful. It can be hard for people to get used to it, not because they're trying to be difficult. It's just a bigger shift than them accepting your queerness and learning how to not be offensive to you, but asking people to use the correct pronouns when that's just not how the language has worked in their experience up until now. It's a struggle.So then when you ask somebody don't use any pronouns at all, they feel like they're saying your name entirely too much in a sentence. It feels very strange to them.Kris: Oh goodness. That's wild. Yeah. I think like, I'm just, I just know so many different queer people that I'm not programmed to just assume anything about anybody.So I'm very much like when somebody tells me, like, if somebody was like refer to me as it, I'm like, okay, that's just, you, you know,Dalia: It's not a problem with queer people because when people use Neo pronouns, I'm just like, okay, okay. I write it down. I put it next to their name in my phone and I get it. And I know to look at it again before we start talking so that I will use the correct ones.It's not that hard.Kris: Exactly. So, I think like being in community, you kind of learn to let people tell you who they are, rather than assuming anything about them. So it didn't like strike me as anything when I saw no pronouns. So I was just like, all right.Dalia: You see this is why spending time in community is so crucial. I really want to know more about when you look back, even thinking about your ancestors and the gendered language around like, oh, that was your great, great grandma, but was it, we don't know. You didn't meet, like we don't really know. Have you had any epiphanies that specific people have brought to you or once people get out of their physical body, is there less attachment to things like that?Because spirit never has a gender, right? At least that's what I thought that spirit is always gender free.Kris: Because this is a freewill universe. They can take on like any like forms and fashions that they want. That's why, like, even with our Orisha, you'll have different paths, like there's different lifetimes of them that will look different and we're different.And just because multidimensionality is a very real thing when it comes to spirits. And a lot of like, just the fact that energy does recycle in all these different ways. So you will have a lot of gender neutral entities that are like, I'm just like a universal energy. Like I don't, but then you will also have like goddesses or, you know, who are just like, no, I like really lean into what we would say is femininity now. But even within the, like, you've seen the deck, like I really break down how, like, these things are really formless energy concepts that can manifest in different ways. So there's no way to define it except to connect to it for yourself and decide what proportion of that you resonate with, you know?Just like, there's all different types of like identities that humans are realizing that we have it's very similar for spirits.Dalia: Interesting, because I had assumed that, especially when we're here in the west, a lot of times you're always dealing with some kind of male cis-gender God.I started to think it was always a projection that humans are putting on spirit, this gendered thing. But I never thought about, you know, the spirit itself or himself or herself may decide. This is the energy that I want to put out there. And then people pick up on that energy and understand this is a goddess, or this is just spirit with no gender.Kris: Right. And sometimes like, just depending on where your conception is, spirits won't necessarily have attachments to being seen a certain way. So if they have to take on a certain form to be comprehensible, then that's what they'll do. Like there's this one Veda where Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita where Krishna shows somebody Krishna’s universal form and it freaked the person out.Like the whole thing is like, I went through wonder, I went through total fear.... and then Krishna turned back into like a humanoid thing. So yeah that's like what I really look like. And you just aren't ready.Dalia: I wonder if that's why, so a while ago I got a reading, an ancestor reading. I was under the impression maybe something broke down in communication, but I thought that my ancestors were going to be, making bold, visible moves within a certain timeframe and that it didn't happen.But then when I went back for a follow-up reading, the person that had the reading, when they said, I think it's you, you are not ready and they know you're not ready and they're not here to freak anybody out. They know that if you really start hearing them and seeing them, you're going to have a little meltdown, even though you keep saying, show yourself, show yourself.They're like, ummmm, but you're not ready. So that all makes sense.Kris: Yeah, absolutely. Cause my spirits definitely know there's only certain times that I can deal with visuals. Other times it's like do not just pop up in the corner of my eye when I just woke up. Y'all like, don't do that. I don't have a problem with hearing anybody like that for some reason, that just never really freaked me out. So I'm like send a sound like before you send an image, if you see like I'm doing any meditation, I can look at you.Dalia: I love the idea of being able to set boundaries even with non-human entities.,Kris: You have to, or they'll run your life. Like they'll get away with as much as you let them get away with, but then you also have some, like, that's why I think ancestors, it's really important to connect with them before you start connecting with other entities because you are them.So they really understand your human limits a lot more than other spirits. Like some of them, it's not that they don't care, but they don't exist in this body. So they don't understand that you're tired unless you just say like, Hey, not right now, like I'm tired. Or if you're like, they don't come at me like that, like this is not a productive way to communicate.Like, okay, I understand that this is urgent, but you can't do this right now. This is hurting my ears. Like that kind of thing. You know?Dalia: How do you make sure that you specifically stick to your ancestors? Is it just by asking that only they come through or are there tools you would stay away from.Is that your experience? Are there certain tools we should save for later or save for never?Kris: So tricksters will definitely like, especially if the spirit doesn't recognize you. So it's if you haven't been initiated into something and you're like, oh, I'm just going to light this candle and summon and so-and-so and tricksters there definitely will be like, well, s**t, I'm just gonna answer cause like so-and-so's obviously not coming.Cause you don't know what you're doing. And they will just come and talk to you, like give me attention, give me energy. I think, well, number one, like either starting with somebody that you knew in life or somebody that you just heard a lot of stories about when it comes to ancestors and letting them be your entryway into other ancestors.And when it comes to branching out into other spirits, like, because when spirits realize you can hear them, a lot of different things, we'll just kind of like try to flood you sometimes. And so you do have to know how to say no . When I feel like somebody, I like haven't like consciously interacted with before it's coming.The first thing that I do is like ask, do you mean me my highest good. And if the answer is at all shaky, cause like a trickster will try to lie, but you can kind of feel, it feels like when a person's lying a little bit, you know, like there's just something shaky. You didn't know how to answer that directly.But then when I get a really direct response, the responses like, yes, like obviously like then it's like, okay, so now we can like talk.Dalia: That's really helpful. Do you, in your experience, does everyone who passes, like if you're thinking of a close relative that died, but in life they were super, super Christian and all they ever envisioned was going straight to heaven no in-between is everybody available to be called out to, or are there some people that based on what they said when you knew them.They probably have moved on and they can't hear you anymore.Kris: It really depends. Some ancestors are earth bound. Like for some reason they just couldn't cross over. They can't let go. And some really didn't have something just deeply unhealed in them. That just still plagues them as a spirit.So different situational things like that will affect even if you say like, let me speak with my honorable ancestors or my righteous ancestors, then like certain ancestors, aren't going to be able to answer that. And that is how you want to start. You don't want to start with like your unhealed ancestors giving you a bunch of discouraging advice. I think one thing when people talk about this separation though, is that eventually you can reach a point where you can do healing work with those ancestors, but you really have to have a solid foundation with the ones who mean you your highest good first, you know, so that like you can really see that distinction and know the kind of healing work that you're doing.Because a lot of the things with your unhealed ancestors are also unhealed in you. So that's a very vulnerable thing.Dalia: Can you help them do healing without directly interacting with them? If you do your own healing work does that go backwards, and forwards like with your other relatives?Kris: Yeah. I think anytime anybody heals themselves, it heals around and backwards and forwards.The present is in conversation with all things, whatever current present you're choosing is in conversation with alternate realities, it's in conversation with the future and it's in conversation with the past. And so, yeah, you can definitely do things to elevate ancestors who need elevating and help bring them peace, but you need to be in a solid place and have a solid, hold on those things within yourself first, you know?Dalia: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense to me. I've been thinking a lot lately about, well, not lately, probably like forever about intergenerational trauma and how it physically is passed on to you through DNA. But then also wondering if sometimes if you feel like a high level of rage or just general being super, super high strung in a way that indicates you're a descendant of survivors of trauma, but also could be that you're still feeling their energy and all this unresolved rage that they died with because they were subjected to countless injustices and just all the disappointment you can even imagine.If you get to a point where you're spending your time in silence and you feel like your nervous system is less agitated all the time, would that also be going out to them or does that not necessarily mean anything's happened beyond you?Kris: Oh, it absolutely does. Like, your DNA is like a continuation of that, you know?And so yeah, the intergenerational healing definitely does impact the experiences of intergenerational trauma, because it starts activating the things that the trauma deactivated within the bloodline too, you know, like these connections with all these other spirits. That's why sometimes when you move through something that does take up a whole lot of weight, because trauma is like a really heavy energy, wherever you experience it.Right. And when you clear that it makes room for like a whole lot of subtle energy that was once there before, you know.I think you said something earlier about like ancestors who conceptualize gender differently that I wanted to touch on because a lot of the people will say it was the great mothers were the original humans, but they like it when I say the great ancestors, because so many of them did not resonate with womanhood.Like there were trans men, they were folks who in today's terms would identify as non-binary. And that's why like Black queer trans and intersex folks do have like a lot of unseen forces that are so in supportive us, like being visible and being out.Dalia: That makes me wonder too, when you spoke about ancestors that are invested in the wellbeing of your family, not because you're blood relatives, but because they had a commitment with your blood line.I immediately thought that this could also be like folks who never decided to have children of their own or couldn't for whatever reason also being part of our extended family. Family isn't just blood family in this life or in any other.Kris: Yeah, absolutely. And that's where like the whole concept of trancestors comes from too.Like a lot ofDalia: Ohhh tell me about that I haven't heard that.Kris: I feel like my first trancestors were Monte Carlo and Keywan they pass they were really like really integral in the Atlanta community. But they were two of the first, like people who had passed that my ancestors were like, okay, you have to help them transition.You have to work with them and stuff like that. So I actually bonded with them, in depth and wound up really involved in doing a lot of like death doula work and helping community members like grieve and like sending messages from them and things like that. And it really has deeply connected me to a lot of trancestors who really their family and this life was community, you know?And so they, they look over communities still.Dalia: Oh, wow. That's beautiful. So the things that you offer to the community as a spiritualist, you do death doula work, and you also have created the Oracle deck for us. What are the other things that you do?Kris: I'm also just a deeply creative person, so there's a lot of like just creative stuff that I do as well. I paint, I do poetry. I've been a career spoken word artists. And so I would say that while it's not necessarily my career, it is another deep, part of my calling is to be a creative soul.But the spiritual abolitionist definitely is and the cosmic reparations fund and just making myself available as a universal, spiritual support system for Black queer trans and intersex people who sees them like for who they are, you know? And I think it's deeply meaningful to receive spiritual support and healing protection tools, prosperity tools.Everything in my shop is really geared towards things to make our lives easier, given all the s**t that goes on in this system. So when there was a lot going on with police action against Black people, I dropped the f**k around and find out protection blend was like, okay. So if a white person is trying to kill you with the cops clot then went this, you know, like, but then also like when I see people crowdfunding like, oh, Hey, here's some ancestor money burn this as you crowd fund and help manifest more funds for you.You know? The higher love potion, which is like a roll-on oil is like, I see a lot of folks going through stuff emotionally. So this is going to help with calling in your spirits who can help with emotional support, you know so it's deeply rooted. Just everything that I do. I'm open for aura cleanses and for divinations this month as well. The deck really came out of like, I was like, I can't really like divine for everybody all the time, but I think this is literally a way that I can, you know, and when I realized that like that Oracle deck did not exist, that was for like Black queer trans and intersex folks. I was like, all right, well, I need to create, it was basically what spirit was just like, it doesn't exist yet.Cause you didn't make it like you paint, you write you've been a collective channel, what's stopping you they were just like, why haven't you made it already? Dalia: I love that. I love that. And for anybody who doesn't know the difference between tarot and oracle cards, what is the difference to you as someone who actually has made it.Kris: Yeah. So tarot is a regimented system. So even though you'll have them with different themes and using different things to express them, there's still basic things about numbers and the elements and stuff that just applies to tarot and the major Arcana also. And so it's more regimented in that way, you're going to have the same number of cards you're going to have the same archetypes. Oracle decks are a lot more open-ended even in how you can read with them.with this one, they, it went through like several different editing processes kind of, because I was initially gonna like, have a lot more keys and they were just like, why? Just like, like you said, everything you need to say, like stop trying to like rub your nose against the grind stone.Basically.Dalia: When you say it could be read different ways to, how do you recommend somebody use a deck?Kris: So you can pretty much approach it anyway, that was one thing about the reason that I. Went to different primordial, just universal energies but I more so consulted the universal energies who were conscious of marginalization and of the spiritual warfare on the mental and emotional wellbeing of Black queer trans and intersex folks every day, because we're seeing it more.And I started just seeing a lot of things that folks were going to have to be dealing with in the next 10 to 25 years. And it was like, yo, I need the guidance that's really going to help, folks to do the inner work, do the outer work or whatever to be prepared. And a lot of us who can really feel that new ways of existence need to, are going to need to be existing sometime soon.You know, I was like a lot of these oracle decks are very frilly and love and lighty and don't necessarily acknowledge like, no, revolution is coming. It's really here in the spiritual realms, you know?Dalia: Oh, yeah, that resonates so deeply. So much is missing in these mainstream spiritual practices that have hijacked some indigenous traditions and over simplified them.And everything's about 'love and light love and light', and the insinuation is if you really are a spiritual person that you're only aware of positive things, and every time something negative, you know, starts to come toward you, you're just like positive vibes only. And then magically that negative force just poof disappears.We know from living in these Black bodies, that's not a f*****g thing. And that you could be bursting with positive energy and spiritual power and you will still have to deal with whatever the fuckery is of the day, whether that's somebody's homophobia f*****g up your employment situation, or somebody's transphobia f*****g you over, or somebody racism, it really is a thing.So when you just now said it's spiritual warfare, can you talk about that? Because I would love to hear from a spiritual perspective, that's focused on abolition and liberation. What is really going on?Kris: Oh, okay. I'm going to have to like talk about this kind of broadly and you're going to find this getting fucked.So my, my word that I like to use is Babylon for the powers that used to be, I'm just going to say, cause they're really scrambling to hold onto power now. Because I think so many Black people are waking up and kind of realizing when you feel very drained because of a lot of these things, your energy is going somewhere.It's powering things. And so a lot of the times, like when there's like these really subtle stories, these news stories, that these are the ones that everybody's seeing everywhere of, like, like I was telling somebody the other day, I've marched for a lot of people who did not make the news. And now all of a sudden it has to be a news story.And the video footage has to be on your timeline and stuff like that. And just things that like will fundamentally make you feel unsafe and make your spirit feel unsafe in your body. That energy goes somewhere. So that stuff is very much intentional, just like in terms of trying to degrade our mental and emotional wellness to distract us from getting messages about what we need to be doing and ways that we can be prepared and things that we're meant to be doing on this earth right now to deal with this stuff, you know. For a whileI was just like going around doing healing, work with different places in the land where there are a lot of Black American earthbound ancestors who just died in such horrific ways that they're not at peace . And so I would just go out and do healing work. That was where, like the term, the spiritual abolitionist really came from, was it felt like helping free them and free these ancestors that were bound.But those were ritual sacrifices. You see what I'm saying? Like the KKK is a ritualistic group. And so even when those things, like they're deeply embedded in a lot of the folks who are at the top of these corporations and stuff like there's ritual symbolism and things like that, that they're really trying to do to wage war on us all the time, and to keep us blind to our power, you know?But the thing is a lot of us, we are we're master manifesters or we have spirits who are master manifesters like, we have spirits who will make ways for us and stuff like that. And spirits who will give us strength like High John the Conqueror is one that a lot of people will use because he's really big on emotional uplift and on helping you find ways to outwit them and outwit situations and stuff.And so I like, as a shadow seer, I can see like certain like ritualistic things that are going on and are very background when certain things start circulating like that. And so I'll also see like, okay, this will be emotionally manipulating this kind of stuff. So then my channelings will be like, Hey, do this kind of inner healing work, focus on this in this time, you know?To try to send messages from energies that are trying to balance and neutralize and not allow certain outcomes to happen to folks. And so that also definitely went into the creation of the deck was just teaching people how to protect themselves on a small scale when people are throwing crap at you or just evil eye and stuff, but also on a larger scale with the stuff that the state is just doing every day to try to f**k with us, you know?Dalia: I've been hearing lately from almost everybody I know at this point in my life, everybody, they told you on a regular basis is involved in some kind of social justice work in some area, whether it's trying to get equal access to healthcare for fat people, whether it's trying to get people to stop murdering Asian people, everybody's in some kind of liberation work and everyone has been so demoralized lately that at the end of every conversation, it's just like, I guess my new objective is just to survive. Like repeatedly friends, keep saying, when I asked, well, how are you doing? And they know, I don't mean just give me some surface level. I mean, how are you really doing?How are you doing? They're like, well, I'm still alive. And that's about it. Early 2020, it felt like momentum and there was new life into this second wave of the civil rights movement.And then it started to feel like the constant news coverage, became an energy drain. And then you heard even well meaning folks of color saying you can't look away and don't forget their names. And basically if you don't have the strength to keep watching it, like who the f**k do you think you are? I mean, they died.Kris: It's like guilting people into consuming. Especially I dislike it when people do that to Black people and like I'm Black every day, you know?Dalia: Right, right. Do I really have to keep watching something that's going to make me feel like I don't have any energy left to do anything?Kris: And to be honest, I was an organizer before I was a spiritualist. And I think that was one thing that I saw. I was like, I can't help, but feel like the way this is modeled currently, we're not modeled to model wellness and model wellness as an essential part of doing that kind of work, you know, like modeling, having inner peace as an essential part of going to war with things. Because you can't be out of balance and those energies either, or you'll just be popping off and giving your energy to everything and mental health matters.You know, mental health is deeply connected to spiritual health. We had so many ancestral practices that were for mental, spiritual, and emotional health that I feel like are coming back in a lot of these ways. I am prioritizing, like, I've seen a lot of Hoodoo apothecaries with like, anti-anxiety herbs for Black folks, you know, and different stuff like that.I mean, in my opinion, you should be in your liberation work out of love and not obligation. If you are doing what you're doing, because somebody is telling you to feel obligated to it. That's not really coming from your heart. That might not even necessarily be what you are meant to do. I do think they try to condition us to burn ourselves out so that we're not effective.And so that is a large part of what spurred me into becoming a healer and doing aura cleanses and things like that. And helping people release those things at an energy level ,receive these visions from spirit at an energy level, you know, like cultivate that self love on an energy level so that you have like a level of psychic shielding.And you know, when to use that when you're dealing with these things.Dalia: That framing is extremely helpful. Doing the work out of love. From your posts online, you seem very intersectional, but your work is focused on the liberation of queer Black folks, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're elevating the people you're serving above other people, but that's what you were called to do.Kris: Right, I center Black queer trans and intersex folks because there's just such a big question with spiritualists all the time. Is that a safe space for me personally, as a Black queer, trans and intersex person, like, am I going to have to deal with some kind of microaggressive b******t while I'm coming to you for a healing service, you know, It's not that I don't also like do service with cis people. It's not that I don't also, you know, do service with white people. I do, I have a reparations fund and I asked that any white person who benefits from my work contribute to that consistently. Like, so if you are going to take benefit from me as a white person, I need you to be a benefit to my community by sponsoring community healing services and sponsoring products for community members.But I do think it's important as a spiritualist that I do center myself that way to always make it like clear first and foremost to community members who need that heal at work the most like I'm in a safe space for you.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that makes so much sense to me. Oh my goodness. I'm sure there's like a million other questions I'm going to of later, but...Kris: Do you want me to see if the deck has anything to say?Dalia: Yessss, let's see!Kris: Something just popped out. Dalia: Is that the one that wants to be read?Kris: Yes. So it is the birth key and for people who this is their first time seeing it, they're kind of like flashcards. So there's no books you have to sift through. When you pull a card, it's just going to tell you what it means.The birth key unveils that you can either consciously sit down or get sat down by spirit because you have a new creation to labor into existence. The only thing blocking this creation from coming to you is the fact that you are not honoring your labor and prioritizing your creative baby. Only share your energy with those who can support you in your focus and allow the universe to remove anyone else from your life.Allow spirit to use you in your co-creation process. Creation is spiritual labor surrender fully to this blessing. Focus on your focus and abundance will flow in what follows. Dalia: That might've been specifically for me. I don't know if it's for the conversation. Kris: It’s wild because it's a new moon. Yeah, it was yesterday. So that's manifestation time. So it felt like this feels kind of specific. I don't know. This might be like the perfect astrological time for you to.Dalia: Yeah, sometimes it's ridiculous how many different ways spirit tries to tell me something. And I'm still like, what do I do?I got that message a lot yesterday. And I was like, huh, I don't know. I'm still feeling lost. And now here it is.Kris: Oh, I love that. And I've been loving that with the feedback specifically for Black queer and trans folks about the deck, just like, oh my gosh, it's so straight forward. And that was my goal. I was like, I don't want this to be a super confusing deck.I want it to really just call out the energy so that you can see it like, oh yeah, likeDalia: That's so interesting. There's something about the way that it's written too. And I always, I struggled with this because I felt very disconnected from Black American culture growing up because I was raised in a very white centered church.I didn't get to engage with the music. And the church is such a big part of Black American culture. If you didn't at least get to go as a kid, I feel like you're missing out on a lot of references. There's all kinds of songs you don't know. And then so many of these songs also have messaging that bridges, spiritualism and Christianity.And so I'm always concerned that I won't get it. That something specifically for Black people might just go right over my head. But what I do find is when somebody is more connected to the diaspora in general, and your worldview is expanded because of the queerness and the focus on the trans folks and the intersex folks, that's the language that I understand. Like I maybe wouldn't have understood it if it was written by cis femme Black woman from the US who got to grow up in the church. That she might use language that I'd be like, I don't know the references, but when I've been going through the deck, I find myself asking, why do I feel like these were all written for me?Kris: Yes. And I've heard that from several Black gender expansive folks too, just like this feels really affirming with like language that I can get behind. And that was so the goal I'm so glad.Dalia: Yeah. Thank you so much for making and then modeling for everybody that there's just a lot of stuff that we're here to do, but sometimes you feel like you can't do it because you think there aren't enough people that need it.Like, you know, you could have used it, but you're like, how many of me are there out there more than you think, because people's voices are constantly being suppressed and people are still finding their way to clearly identifying who they are for themselves. Like coming out to yourself first, like you said, as a non-binary person,that is a step. You don't hear people talk about it a lot, but that's like the most important step.Kris: Exactly. And it's a process.Dalia: It doesn't happen just like that.Kris: It's a decolonization process really.Dalia: Yeah.Kris: Just decolonizing your concept of new.Dalia: Wow. That really hits. Where do we go to hear more of this? Where did we go to hear more of what Kris is putting out into the world?Kris: So I have a podcast where I do collective channelings. If it ever seems like s**t is really going to like hit the fan. I dust out my old telepathic hotline with the universe and pull out messages.And that's called The Liberation Station Podcast. you can find me at www.thespiritualabolitionist.com. There you'll find links to the podcast, to my shop, with all my products, including the deck and my art and all my different spiritual tools and the cosmic reparations fund for any white and non-Black folks who have heard this and would like to sponsor healing products and services and emergency funds for community members.All of that can be found on my website. I'm also on Instagram @thespiritualabolitionist and @kriswithakcreates. That's more so like my personal, like splash, just like putting out different creative things that I'm working on. Just for fun for. Yeah, I think that's pretty much everywhere that you can find me dropping my little gems.I try to put out different little like memes and stuff about the, how to handle the astrological weather on my Instagram.Dalia: That's what I feel like is really missing for me. A lot of times they're like a practical approach. There's so much spiritual stuff out there and sometimes it just kind of feels like you're on the receiving end of a fire hose and you're like, well, what should I do right now?Presenting it and in a meme form sounds very digestible.Kris: Yeah, I did a really, I did a really fun one with a living single scene the other day. And I was like, Max equals how I'm going to be this mercury retrograde. And it was a scene where everybody was arguing in the kitchen and Max just walked in and got handed the cookie and got handed a glass of milk and tried to reach for another cookie and just walked out.Dalia: Yeah, this is what we need. This is what we need. Understandable. Something you can internalize. Yeah, we remember Max. I keep seeing all this stuff about the Friends anniversary or reunion or whatever, andKris: you mean white Living Single?Dalia: Thank you. I'm like, oh, that thing that was a derivative form of a show that it just resonates so much more.It's funny because at the time the environment I was in, all I ever saw was Friends. And then I get to watch Living Single, as a binge, as an adult. And I'm like, wow this clearly was first.Kris: I literally can quote every single episode. I'm going to be writing an article at one day where I break down every Friend's episode.That's can you link directly back to a Living Single episode. Stay tuned. Cause that's been in the back of my head cause I grew up in a Friends household too, and I started rewatching it, but I watched living single all the time.Dalia: Yeah. That really says something for anybody who's thinking from an artistic standpoint.Oh, I can't do ... because it's so derivative. But can't you though? Because how successful was Friends? But can't you though? It really depends on who's going to be consuming it in the end.Kris: It's true. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Dalia: Thank you so much for coming on. Yeah, not that we want to encourage or validate the constant theft of Black culture.Kris: I was like white folks that wasn't necessarily for you to go appropriating anything.Dalia: If anything, all what I can say is it was on brand.Kris: So true. So trueDalia: Taking, taking, taking, taking, and what I've been seeing so much lately is how both straight Black American culture and white popular culture is just constantly stealing Black, queer cultural things like left, right and center. A friend was telling me about a show that they're enjoying, but I had decided not to watch it because the news behind the scenes was basically like, hey, there were ancestors who put in a ton of time into ballroom that got passed over vs the person we selected, you know, while they're a person of color, they're very fair skinned and they have straight hair, they're not any of the things that the people who started ballroom are. And while they are queer and I'm definitely not invalidating their queerness. It's different to be queer and not engage with the culture. It's not the same.Kris: With a lot of these celebrities that come out and it's like, okay, wait, you definitely aren't having the same experience as a lot of the rest of us.And you're not in community with all these other queer people in the streets, which is where queerness really developed. Dalia: If you were you’d have known to just sit your ass down. When this opportunity came up, if you actually were an active member of the community, it never would have crossed your mind to take this spot from a trans person with dark skin, who has been doing the damn thing since before you were f*****g born. It never would have entered your consciousness.Kris: We have that issue in academia too, with folks who develop those things in academia, who aren't actually in the streets. And don't actually have respect for a lot of the dark skinned, Black, queer, and trans folks who model these accountability, things that you're now making millions off of books about I'm side eyeing somebody with the initials AMB on that one, because your publishing team is really trying to crush it.There even is a story on that with you not compensating, dark skinned, Black, queer, and trans folks whose essays are the basis for your books. And now you're the authority on transformative justice. Dalia: Alright. Cute. It's amazing when you start to hear about the layers. You suspect there's more b******t, but sometimes you don't know, cause it's not the area you function in.That's really interesting to me and I am pan, bi/pan. Pan feels more right now, but bi is what people said a million years ago because I'm old. But I would never presume that I could lead the way in helping dark skinned trans femme folks, get liberation. If there was a show that was specifically for Black trans femmes, I would never think that that was my spot.Or even if it was something that was supposed to be centered on cis gay Black men, because their lives and their experience of homophobia and transphobia is a million times higher than what I experience when it comes to homophobia because people keep assuming I'm straight. I keep having to tell people I'm not straight and I don't have to worry about somebody throwing a brick at me if I'm holding hands with someone who, as people walk by, they think they see an opposite gender couple, it's not the same. So then why would I try and push myself to the front. Kris: Centering yourself in an experience that you’re not living in the streets. Exactly. And you can so tell, but that's why I feel like it's so important that a lot of us just manifest our own s**t at this point. That's so much of why I try to get people tapped into like getting that spiritual support to manifest in your own s**t. I was a Black queer and trans person. You know,Dalia: We’re going to leave it on that note to manifesting your own s**t everybody.Kris: That's pretty much what the birth key is all about.Dalia: Oh my God. I love that.Oh, isn't Kris, just a breath of fresh air. I would love to hear what your greatest takeaways are from this episode. Supporting members on Substack have access to group posts and that is an excellent place to share. I recently decided that social media was just taking so much more away from me than it was giving and because my energy is needed elsewhere.I just decided to let it all go.Now the best way to connect with me online is on Substack.So, if you want to chat about the episode checkout daliakinsey.substack.com and consider the supporting a member option.Substack makes it super easy for you to share episodes that you love. So if you got a lot out of today's conversation and you feel like a friend of yours would too, please be sure to forward it to them.Thank you so much for joining me. I'll see you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
Diet culture is pervasive and sometimes sneaky. As we enter into the unofficial start of summer, you will no doubt start to hear words like "beach body." You'll hear about diets wrapped in packages described as "wellness" and "health." Studies have shown that people in bigger bodies often don't receive the healthcare they need because when they get in front of some healthcare professionals, their weight becomes the focus; on top of that, people of color also contend with racial bias and women face gender bias. Dalia Kinsey, author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation, joins us.
Episode 72. I've said it before and I will say it again, I am often profoundly changed by the impact of the conversations I have on this podcast. I still remember quotes and concepts from people I interviewed a year ago, and I still sometimes re-listen to the conversations to remind myself of the lessons I learned from them. This conversation with Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, was extra special though. And I'm actually having a hard time putting into words why exactly that is. I think part of it is Dalia's presence, and the generosity and vulnerability that is shared, including the process from behind the scenes of this week's. Beyond that, however, Dalia's compassion for others, myself included, who have very much missed the mark with wellness, health, and lack of diversity in related fields, made this conversation all the more meaningful. Inviting Dalia on the podcast was important to me because I truly believe that moving towards true wellness and health means we must un-learn a lot of what we have been taught. Not only about what is healthy from a weight-centric model, but so much of what we have been taught about race, sexuality, and generally how so many of our systems, educational models, and structures are set up to serve white people, not persons of marginalized backgrounds. I'll admit: I have total imposter syndrome when I talk about or write about topics related to diversity. I'm afraid I'll mess things up, like say the wrong things or offending someone (my deepest fear). But I know deep down it's a privilege to be able to choose to learn about and talk about these topics or not, and I am working on continuing to choose the (typically mild) discomfort, so I can continue to learn and grow. I hope you will listen in on this conversation and hear the incredible gift that Dalia has given to the world by sharing this book with the world. I truly believe what I said, that I think this book truly benefits anyone who wants to learn about wellness and inclusion as an individual or as a healthcare provider. I hope wherever you are in your journey of learning about diversity and where we in the US and other countries have greatly missed the mark, that you will remain open, curious, and humble and continue to be open to learning more. And remember that (as I often have to remind myself) you don't need to know it all, you just need to ask question and listen. There's so much value to be gained from learning about the amazingly diverse experiences of humans and I'm incredibly grateful that Dalia shared with us via Decolonizing Wellness, but also that I was able to have this incredible conversation as well. What To Expect in This Interview: We cover the following topics: How Dalia came to doing this work, and the courage it took for Dalia to write Decolonizing Wellness, and the incredibly vulnerable process of doing soSome examples of the many ways that health and wellness spaces miss the mark when it comes to persons of diverse and/or marginalized identitiesWhat Dalia means by "When you queer anything it becomes more inclusive" (and why I've never been more convinced of this after talking to Dalia and reading Decolonizing Wellness)What Dalia wishes more people understood about these topicsAnd much more! Who is Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD? Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice, continually creating wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable —...
Julie and Yeli chat about Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation by Dalia Kinsey. Listen for thoughts on food as an entry point to body liberation, unconditional permission to eat, and more. Subscribe and leave a review here in just seconds. Mentioned in this episode: Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey / Dalia Kinsey's website / Decolonization is Not a Metaphor article / Intuitive Eating / Anti-Diet / Belly of the Beast / The Body is Not an Apology / Fearing the Black Body Food peace resources: Julie Dillon RD blog / PCOS + Food Peace Free Roadmap / PCOS + Food Peace Course / Food Peace Syllabus / 6 Keys To Food Peace / My PCOS Manifesto If you're curious about what it looks like to stop pursuing weight loss, click here for some fabulous freebies that will help guide you in your journey! Do you have a complicated relationship with food? I want to help! Send your Dear Food letter to info@juliedillonrd.com. Click here to leave me a review in iTunes and subscribe. This type of kindness helps the show continue! Find FREE food voice resources here. Thank you for supporting Find Your Food Voice!
Episode 69. Frustrated with emotional eating and not sure where to turn? Have you tried all the things, all the diets, all the "lifestyle" change programs only to worry that you "self-sabotage" by emotional eating? Do you feel like if you could just "stop emotional eating" then all would be writh in the world? Well, today we will touch on what's keeping you stuck, and my top favorite books to help pull you out of the ineffective (and incredibly draining cycle). Today I'm doing a review of my very favorite books to improve your relationship with food and stop binge eating. In fact, binge eating is actually the best term to use instead of emotional eating. Because guess what? Food is emotional and we should have an emotional relationship to food. But I know you want to feel more in control, so that's what we are covering today. Are you ready!? Let's dive in. What to Expect In This Episode The top 6 books I recommend most to help you improve your relationship with food and stop emotional eating or binge eatingGuidance on which books are best for which type of person. Do you like science? I've got a book for you. Or maybe you are more of a story person? Don't worry, there's a great recommendation for each of you.When to know if self help books aren't enough Taking that First Step Have you been caught in the binge-diet cycle, or felt like an emotional eating your whole life or for many years? You might be understandably skeptical that a book could help with such a lifelong problem, and you may be right... However, buying one of these books and reading it may in fact but the first crucial step on a path of healing. Here me out. The Way We Are Doing Things Isn't Working The standard approach to weight management and even treatment of binge eating disorder or emotional eating is not working for the VAST majority of people. Top Books to Improve Your Relationship With Food 6. The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown 5. The Joy Choice and/or No Sweat by Michelle Segar, PhD, MPH - List to my conversation with Dr. Segar here! 4. Health at Every Size by Lindo Bacon, PhD 3. Decolonizing Wellness by Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD 2. The Diet-Free Revolution by Alexis Conason, PsyD and/or The Mindfulness-Based Eating Solution by Lynn Rossy, PhD - Listen to my conversation with Dr. Conason here! 1. Intuitive Eating by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch How to Know When Books Aren't Enough You continue to doubt the process, whether it's working, and if you are on the right path.You are reading the information, but not implementing it. And you still feel out of control and are still emotional eating.You still feel a tremendous amount of shame about your struggles.If you have a significant eating disorder (e.g., really are struggling to eat more food throughout the day, have very engrained thoughts about your body, are bingeing/purging or excessively exercising or doing other things to get rid of calories) please call the National Eating Disorders Helpline here. Remember that eating disorders can and do occurs in all body sizes. Options for Next Steps If you are finding that books aren't enough, or you are just wanting more support and to make progress faster, look into finding more support. Friend level support. Find a friend (or two) to do a book club with. Read one of the above books and meet regularly to discuss it and how you will apply it.Find a Health at Every Size aligned dietitian and/or therapist (counselor, psychotherapist, psychologist). If you can't find someone with their specific training, consider finding a therapist who might be willing to learn with you as a first step. Support Independent Bookstores Near You! Did you know that that if nothing slows their momentum, Amazon will have almost 80% of the book market by the end of 2025? Look, I love the convenience of Amazon, but I've got a super cool way that you can support local bookstores and my blog and podcast si...
Today we're joined by Jade Eloise. Jade self identifies as a fat Black, queer, artist, writer, and spiritual healer. Jade breaks down for us in this episode what body positivity truly means, what its roots are. Jade is a mental health and self-love advocate, but in this episode, breaks down the distinction between self-love and body positivity in its truest form.This episode we explore:The true definition of body positivitySeparating our worth from productivityIntersections of identity and creative freedomPushing back against social programing/conditioning This episode is too good to keep all to yourself. Episode Resourceswww.etsy.com/uk/shop/ArtbyBodiposipoet www.instagram.com/reclaimingbopo/Get your copy of Decolonizing Wellness A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body LiberationDalia: Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonized wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame and self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.Today we're joined by Jade Eloise Jade self identifies as a fat Black, queer, artist, writer, and spiritual healer. A bunch of my favorite things there back-to-back. So, this is a fabulous conversation, Jade breaks down for us in this episode what body positivity truly means, what its roots are. Jade is a mental health and self-love advocate, but in this episode, breaks down the distinction between self-love and body positivity in its truest form. This was a really informative interview when it was originally recorded and listening to it again.So that I could transcribe it before it posted it here on sub stack. I got so much more out of some of these observations Jade shared about entrepreneurship.I've been learning so much about myself in terms of what a affirming business space looks like for me and what type of marketing feels authentic and genuine and natural for me as I continue to promote Decolonizing Wellness, I have had such a time reckoning with the difference between what success is in terms of what I wanted from this project- which is to share, to use it as another tool, to reduce the suffering of all kinds of folks with marginalized identities that have a difficult relationship with their bodies because of the systems that we've been raised in but then also having a lot of residual hang-ups from how I was taught to measure success as a child in the public school system, in the United States and in general as a working class person. So. It has definitely uncovered a lot of areas for more growth. And while I've accepted that growth as an ongoing thing, it's even something that I discussed in the book that it's really crucial for us to get comfortable with that fact that there is no finish line in order for revolutionary change to really have a chance to take hold in our lives.But still I've been finding this particular experience to be a real catalyst for growth sometimes in an uncomfortable way but listening back to Jade's take on what it really looks like to do something creative or entrepreneurial was really helpful for me. So, I hope you enjoy this episode as well.If you love it, please be sure to share it with other people. Now that the podcast is on the Substack it's so easy to forward this episode to others. Alright, let's get right into it.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: Hello. Thank you so much for taking out the time to come on the show.Jade: Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be here.Dalia: When we did the livestream, I had nothing but positive feedback and there was just so much more that we could get into. But, you know, I didn't want us to make like a massive four-hour recording.So, I'm so grateful that you're able to come back again. So, we could talk about a couple of other areas. So, we already know that you're a gifted artist and that you are really leading the way and helping us reclaim body positivity. Can you give us a little bit of a rundown of where body positivity started?Then what happened to it? Like how it got hijacked and what you're working on now?Jade: Yeah. So, I think the general kind of misconception about body positivity is that it is synonymous with self-love. It's all about reclaiming your body image for yourself and learning to love yourself. And obviously self-love is so, so important.I'm a huge advocate for self-love. And I know how it affects your wellbeing. Actually, learn to love yourself. But body positivity is not in fact similar sort self-love. What if acidity is born from fat liberation movements which started to kind of back in the 20th century mid to late and it was mostly led by Black fat women and fat women in general as well, just leading the way in actually reclaiming their bodies.And just making the world know that they were tired of not having their needs as fat woman looked after of you know, medical discrimination, stopping them from getting the care that they needed of constantly being told that their bodies were wrong and needed fixing And, you know, moving into kind of the early 2000s, and then obviously the rise of social media platforms and Instagram in particular, that sort of led to this movement of Black fat women and fat women and femmes and people who lived in marginalized bodies actually saying, do you know what, we want to show people what our lives are like, that we're proud to live in our fat bodies and that we're reclaiming them for ourselves. So, then body positivity was then born into this community of people online just saying we're here. We deserve to be here. And look at us just living our best lives in our bodies exactly as they are.Which was beautiful for the time that it lasted. But with a lot of big movements, it always comes to the point where capitalism sweeps in, and corporations always try to find ways to make money out of movements. And I think, you know, that was the start of the decline of body positivity where of course, you know, we want fat people to get the bag and, you know, making their money from their movements.And that was great at the start, but actually as it started to being capitalized on, it also started being co-opted. And that was when we started to see the body positivity that we have today, where if you search body positivity online, you're mostly see slim white able-bodied women claiming self-love and claiming body positivity without knowing what body positivity really means.Dalia: That just makes so much sense. And it brings up a really big question. When it comes to people who are trying to do work, you're part of a movement. It affects you. It affects a population you belong to, but as we all know anybody who's trying to affect change in the world around them it can be very time-consuming.So, for it to be sustainable, it's really helpful if you're also able to earn an income working in that area. But how do you strike that balance of the need to survive, the fact that we all deserve to be able to take care of ourselves and live somewhat comfortably, and the desire to stop capitalism from completely running our lives.Someone made a point to me online recently that they personally didn't believe that there's any way to ethically make money because you're participating in a really broken system. But I also thought that was very convenient for them to say, because they have access to generational wealth. So, they technically can opt out of actively trying to support themselves.And so, it's like, okay. So where does that leave the rest of us who also know what it's like to live with intergenerational poverty and knowing that that is not it. Like that is not where we want to be.And you're also so limited as far as how much energy you can put into effecting larger change when you don't know where your next meal is coming from or how to keep a roof over your head from one week to the next.Jade: Yeah, I think, you know, that is a lot of problem for a lot of activists and advocates in all sorts of movements. There is no one right answer. Honestly, everyone is just doing their best to stand by their beliefs and their morals and the goals that they have. Whilst also caring for their own needs and the needs of their family.I think for me, I've realized that when I first started within self-love and then into body positivity movements. I was in that mindset of, you know, any opportunity that comes my way. I just want to grab it because I'm helping to perpetuate the message that I want to get out there whilst also looking after my financial needs.But then actually there's a beautiful woman on social media @michellehopewell over the last year. She's really inspired me to be looking at, actually am I questioning the companies and the people that I want to work with and looking into what are their morals, what are their ethics? Are they standing by the communities they claim to be standing by what are the motivations behind the campaigns and the things that they want to be running?And actually, realizing that I'm empowered to question that and by questioning that and by looking into in great depth the people that I want to work with, I can be selective about the work that I take on. And actually, you know, choose to work with communities and seek out communities that I want to work with.But of course, again, I understand that there's a huge amount of privilege within that, to be able to pick and choose who you work with. I would say to people, if you have that ability to actually turn down work, when it comes up if you feel like that there's some ethical issues surrounding that, then that is a choice you might consider it.But at the end of the day, it's all about you as an individual and what you're doing for the communities that you're trying to work for. So as long as you're standing by the morals and as long as you're conveying those within your work. I think that's the most you can do.Dalia: I think that answer's really helpful. And the nuance there, that's one of the biggest differences between kind of a white supremacy culture, very misogynistic or patriarchal way of viewing everything is that under that system, there's a definitive right, a definitive best. And then everything else is trash, right?When in reality, everything is more nuanced than that. And all of our lived experiences are so distinct. We need to give ourselves room to make individualized decisions and understand that maybe the right answer for you will shift and change over time as you have changes in other areas of your life, maybe with income, maybe with having better support, having better options.And that's okay too. It doesn't really serve us to beat ourselves up for trying to do good things worrying, am I doing good things the absolute perfect way, the right way?There is no absolute perfect or right way to do much of anything. So, yeah, I think that's a really helpful answer is to understand that there is no one answer.Jade: Yeah, I think we've lost this understanding and you know, honoring the gray area in a lot of topics there is everything isn't always yes or no, black or white, it isn't always, you know, there was a correct answer and there's a wrong answer in reality that everything in life, it's a spectrum. And, you know, we can only do our best to seek out the right answer for us.We can only do our best to stand by our communities. You know, and also, you know, the whole idea of cancel culture and, you know, you did one thing wrong and now you instantly have to be ashamed of yourself and there is no redeeming yourself from it. We're always learning. We're always growing. And I think so long as we're always striving to do our best, and it's almost, we're always willing to listen and learn and always do better than that is the best that we can do.Dalia: Yeah. And I think it's really helpful when, when your goal is to communicate with someone or to try to do something collaborative with someone and, you know, you'll have to deal with them on an ongoing basis. So, let's say. You know, it's a coworker or it's a family member or someone that, you know, you can't just cancel them and keep it moving.We really want to call people in and give people room to make mistakes and be imperfect. And at the same time, I'm all about the accountability, like you said with companies and individuals reaching out to you, being able to look and see, do you really seem sincere based on your previous behavior? And even then you're looking at a pattern of behavior, not necessarily cutting off opportunities or people based on one thing, but just the same, you know, if it feels like a hard no for you and a boundary, and it's not like this person or entity or organization has to be in your life, you know, you can dismiss them and make more room for other folks. So again, it's like, both its yes and instead of just one or the other, which is really interesting to me, I saw some, well, you're always seeing so much pushback and back and forth about the concept of cancel culture and some people really just wanting to never be held accountable for anything.But at the same time also seeing some people going over the top and asking people who are being preyed upon by a system to be held responsible for responding to the system. So again, so much more nuanced and complicated than what most people want to deal with.Yeah,Jade: absolutely. I think things like that, they always have their place, you know, we do have to hold people accountable and people should want to be held accountable as well, because again, If you're striving to be better and do better in everything you do, you cannot expect to be above reproach and actually, you know, be told what you're doing in this situation isn't okay where you can do better. If you're not open to that I would question why I would question why, and are you really aware of the privilege that you hold in these situations? You know, so it, I definitely think that it does have this place It's again, it's, it's just nuances. It's about understanding that everything is not yes or no. It's like you say yes, and.Dalia: Yeah. Speaking of everything not being yes or no. Before the call started, we were talking about the beauty and the challenges of trying to be self-sufficient in your business, living off of your talents or your gifts and it always being put out there at least to millennials and gen Z as the ultimate dream, because, you know, later in the gen X era, people were starting to have the freedom and the time to even think about, maybe my work should light me up.Maybe my work should be an extension of my life's purpose. Right. And then we lead even harder into that. And we're like, if this job doesn't light me up, I got to get out of here. It's trash and I need to be self-employed and everything's going to be great once I'm self-employed. And then once we actually get into trying to live the dream. We realize it's really challenging as well. And yeah. Can you speak to a little bit of your journey with realizing number one, that your art could be used to support a bigger social movement? And even maybe before that realizing that art was going to be a big part of your life, what did that look like for you?Jade: Oh, well, I never thought that art would be a big part of my life in terms of my personal wellbeing and my mental health it always has been because it's always been an escape for me and a way to express myself. I mean, even when I was a child I did art therapy for a time just to help me cope with the feelings and emotions I didn't necessarily understand always been quite artistic as opposed to a more logical person so in that respect, it has always been important to me, but in terms of my financial security, I never felt that art would play a part in that because it was kind of drilled into me that that was impossible.In terms of schooling and things like that, you know, it was always look for the logical career options. You know, the types of careers that people are expected to go for rather than the creative type, you know, that sort of wishy-washy career, as people seem to think it is, especially here in the UK. So, you know, I didn't think that I'd be able to do art as a career and actually it was only when I think about a year and a half ago, I started to get back into my art. And at the time I was teaching myself, I didn't have to be a perfectionist and that I could love my art for what it is rather than trying to make it something that it just wasn't. And I just had a real sense of fulfillment from just allowing myself to express myself through my art.And you know, I had people express that they actually really appreciated my art for what it was, and that was really affirming for me. Okay, well, maybe there might be more people out there who might be interested in what I do. And so, as a creative expression medium body positivity obviously is incredibly important to me.So, it just felt natural to incorporate the two. In fact, I didn't even realize I was doing it until people were saying to me, wow, you know, I haven't seen fat bodies and Black bodies depicted in this way before, or at least not as much as we should be seeing it. And I was like, wow, I didn't even realize I was doing it.Dalia: Oh, that is so, so cool. That's definitely not the answer I expected, but then when you make the point that, of course everyone had told you, like artists starve, I don't know why that didn't occur to me because I keep seeing people make it work. Maybe like over the last 10 years, I almost forgot that that's what we were all told.I wanted to be a writer since elementary school, even though I grew up in an incredibly racist public school system, even in that environment, teachers kept telling me, oh, I feel like, you know, she's going to be a writer, but all of the adults in my life are like, ha ha. Why? Because you want to starve like that doesn't even make sense.Don't listen to them. They're just blowing smoke. Don't pay attention to that and it's taken almost. 30 years to come back around to what I wanted to do in the first place, which is very, very strange. So, kudos to you for coming back so quickly before you got like deep, deep, deep, into a career that maybe didn't light you up as much. The way it's usually depicted in movies and in books is that artists have a tortured relationship with their art. And since you were using art as a self-expression and self-soothing tool, have you had any stickiness around your relationship with your art?Jade: I think in terms of art was always really personal for me.So, I'm trying to make it into a career and make it productive. Oh, I hate productivity. I hate it with a passion. So, you know, when it sort of felt like I had to do things on a schedule and I had to jump. Create create, create and create for other people rather than creating for myself. I had a moment of do I even want to do this anymore?But actually, I tried to pull myself back out of that again, and I'm not creating to a schedule. My Etsy store I had planned to update it every two months. It has been three. I still have not updated it because, you know, I haven't created what I want to create yet. And I'm just leaving space for myself to create as I want to.And not as I feel like I should, or I have to because I always find that the art that I create on a whim is art that other people appreciate the most. And the art that I love the most. So. I'm sort of sticking to that, but of course, in terms of actually being financially sustainable, that's, you know, not quite as sustainable as I would like it to be, but, you know, again, that's what we were talking about before people don't talk about those elements of creative careers in terms of, you know, living the dream, you know, if you're self-employed, then you're living the dream, but actually in reality it is very stressful and very unpredictable.And there's parts of that I absolutely love, but there's parts of it that keeps you up at night, completely stressed out of my mind. So, you know, there's two elements to it.Dalia: Yeah. I can understand now why some people, they have their passions, but they know for a fact that they want to work for someone else.They know that they want to be able to demand their paycheck when its due regardless of what has changed in the world around them, right? Like you don't get to decide whether or not you pay your employees. They know that check is coming on a schedule. And when you're self-employed, you know, there's just so many different things that can affect what your income is going to be like from one month to the next.When I was a kid, my parents always it's, it's funny because. It seems like, no matter what your parents tell you, you're probably going to be skeptical about it. Like, so you hear like some kids who are raised by very creative parents who always lived off of their own talents, pushing their kids to do the same.And they're like, I don't know about that. And then they decide I want to go work for the man and then vice versa. But my dad had a really stable job, but it was for fairly large organization. And so when they went through a period of deciding to tighten their belts and get rid of people who had more experience, so they could pay younger people half as much to do the same thing, he ended up deciding to go his own way, took his severance package and decided self-employment was a better fit for how he and my mom wanted to live.And they've always tried to stress us that the security you feel when you're waiting on that one check from your company is an illusion, like we've seen living through this global pandemic. Checks that seemed really, really dependable evaporated into thin air. And in theory, when you work for yourself and you have multiple clients or multiple contracts, you lose one, but you're not down to zero income, but at the same time, it just is a lot of mental work to accept that instability and flexibility are normal and have to be part of our lives as adults if we ever want to have any sense of peace around our income. It's such a struggle because when you do work for someone else and you get that check at the same time every month, you completely buy into the illusion that you have security.Jade: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I just, I think there is no one right answer when it comes to either working for yourself, working with someone else or finding that balance between the two. I think for me having a bit of both works really well because the stresses I get from one or alleviated by the other and vice versa.So, I worked part-time for someone else and I worked part-time for myself. And I always know, as far as I'm aware that I'm getting my monthly to check from working for someone else, but I always have my business to fall back on should that something ever go wrong with that role. And you know, when it comes to creating, it does give me more creative license. Because it means that I'm not relying on my income from my own business, you know, to get me through the month. And I think we have this sort of expectation on people when they are self-employed that, you know, you have to focus, you always see those things, you know, those like motivational quotes and things online when they're like, you know, you have to dedicate your whole time, like stop splitting your focus, just focus on the thing that you want.Go out there, grab it, manifest it, all these other things. And you know, it's like, that's great. I love that mentality, but is it realistic? Because I know the stresses that my business brings me and, you know, If I focused on it full time, I don't know if I could deal with that overwhelming stress of not knowing if I was financially, financially secure.So, I think you have to have a little bit of understanding for people, regardless of what a job is, regardless if they're working for someone else or work for themselves, it's great to have dreams and hopes and motivations, but I think realism also does play a part. And you know, not just expecting people to give up security for the sake of creative freedom, I think it is no, it's just.You can't, it's not sustainable and it's a lovely dream, but I just don't know if we can always obtain it straight away. But we can take those steps to obtaining it further in the future.Dalia: Yeah, I think that's one of the biggest gaps is that it's presented as something that we can make happen in a really narrow window of time when I think in reality it's normal for a business to be in the red and the negative for maybe the first three years. Like that used to be an understanding that that's normal, but because the internet supports the illusions that are like, zeitgeist we think that people wake up one day and realize, you know, that the hustle culture is where it's at and the magically by the end of the week, they're making millions of dollars.And I don't think that's really a thing. And it really makes sense to me, especially for people who hold identities that are being marginalized in that environment, that they're living in to understand that if you are under a lot of stress or pressure, that may be additional stress from having to work through fears around security and stability is going to be a major obstacle for you. That may be the person who wrote that post about like staying focused and manifesting your dreams. Maybe they didn't have those other factors. And that statement made perfect sense to them and their life. And you even think about how will people regard you if you're in a large body and you have brown skin and you are an artist and you're living off of that art and things, don't go quite as planned and you go to get support from some social system or safety net that exists in your country, how will you be perceived versus someone doing exactly the same thing as you and a smaller body with white skin? You know, even the reluctance to be in a position where you might need help is influenced by our identities.ItJade: really is. I mean, you know, up until.Literally this month I was on benefits. I was on called universal credit. And you know, in a lot of ways, if I wasn't on benefits, I wouldn't be able to start my business because they actually helped me to get the initial funding to do that. But that was a source of shame or embarrassment for me because I'm very much hyper aware of how people might perceive me because of my body. And I didn't want to live up to that fat, lazy stereotype of, oh, you'd rather just live on benefits rather than working hard. I think for me, because I, I am disabled. I have chronic illnesses. And also, I am, you know, I have a creative mindset, you know, I'm, I'm not someone who can be hyper-focused on manual activities my brain just doesn't work that way.And, you know, people might think that's an excuse, but really that is just how my brain works and how my body works. We're all different in those ways. So, for me, you know, working for myself has provided me with the opportunity of working in a way that suits me and looks at myself. No, I'm not interested in hustle.And I think people would be horrified, but you know, oh, you don't want to work hard. You just want to be lazy, whatever. And again, I feel that stereotype, especially living in a larger body and especially with being disabled as well, because again, I know within the working classes in the UK, there is this idea of if you're on any sort of disability benefit that you're just trying to scam the government out of money.So, there's all these stereotypes around different body types. Hustling doesn't interest me. I think we have this very odd colonialist mindset that you have to work yourself into the ground, but you have to work until you, you, your health has just deteriorated and only then are you benefiting society only then are you worthwhile.My wellbeing matters to me. I'm not interested in stressing myself out in making myself ill. So yeah, I want to work hard, but my perception of what working hard is not someone else's perception. And I think when it comes to things like being self-employed, there's this idea again, that if you're not working 60, 80 a hundred-hour weeks that you're not working hard enough. So, your failures are caused by you. It's no, that's all I can say to that. No, because we have to look after ourselves. You know, we're not just here to be placed on this earth to work. And then for that to be it, we have to live. We have to look after ourselves.We have to find purpose in whatever way it works for us. So, hustle is great if someone's, if someone loves hustling absolutely go for it. Do that thing. For me, I want to look after myself. I want to enjoy whatever it is that I do in all capacities. And often that just means slowing down.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that's such a, that is a whole word like that is such a crucial message.And what's so funny is when you really look at how people perform at their peak, following your body signals and knowing when to slow down and knowing when you're just not feeling it, you know, you sit down to write something, you sit down to record something, and your energy is not there. If you make yourself sit there for eight hours, it doesn't get any better.Sometimes what you need to do to get the best product is to leave. Stop what you're doing. Go do something different. Do something that activates a different part of your consciousness. Relax. Sometimes you find, when you sit down to do something that you thought you'd been putting off, you'd actually been ruminating on it in a positive way, in the back of your mind all week.And then when you sat down all the information you have been kind of letting simmer comes back to the surface. So sometimes even, or concepts of what is working, it doesn't fit the reality of the situation. You don't have to be working in a way that someone walking by would be able to validate, you know, if you have your own creative process and you honor that and you're willing to respect yourself enough to tailor your life to what works for you. Then your productivity may actually surprise you like how much better your productivity is when you respect your body.Jade: Yeah. And I also think it's really important to have a really strong sense of self and to work on understanding of self, because a lot of people, again, will look at you and tell you things about yourself.You know, you're not working hard enough, you're not working in the right way, but if you understand yourself, you can acknowledge those times when you are actually, you know, being productive without being physically productive.And also knowing the ways that you work might be different to other people and that those ways are completely valid. So, you know, a lot of things, when I was younger things that people would say, speak of me, quite negative things about the way I worked. But for instance saying that I'm, you know, flaky or I don't commit to certain projects and I felt that for a long time and I am still working through those feelings now, but what I recognize now is those things that might make someone consider me to be flaky or to not commit are also the things that on new projects get me to absolutely push through and bring ideas together and pull them into something and, you know, birth them into the world in a way that I wouldn't have been able to perceive if I didn't have those qualities, they allow me to multitask.They gave me the energy and the drive. You know, when I have short deadlines, I am never more committed when I have a short deadline, because that's how my mindset works. So, we all work in different ways and all those ways are completely valid. And actually, when it comes to then collaborating on projects, you know, you get to work with people who have work in different ways to you and you all compliment each other.So just because you don't work in the same way that someone else does doesn't mean that you're not valid, actually it makes you an amazing team member and an amazing contributor once you know what those qualities are and how to make them work for you for the better.Dalia: That's the key is knowing what those qualities are.And I appreciate that you acknowledge that maybe you've been trained to devalue working style or your creativity, maybe that is not just something you're going to be able to wake up and say, oh, now I know that this is valid. Maybe it will be a process. Maybe you'll really have to push to work through it.And with some of the obstacles, we have mindset obstacles from childhood. This may be something we're always working through. You know, you kind of go in cycles, you go through phases where you understand your worthiness and then something rocks you and you take a couple steps back and then a couple of steps forward.That's natural too. Thinking we're going to magically erase everything that conditioning has done to us up until now isn't really realistic. And I think that also ties back into how there's no nuance in a lot of the bod pos things we see out there that you're going to erase all of your conditioning and love yourself completely every single day and want all these pictures of yourself from strange angles and want to share them with the world. Like that’s just, just not the reality for most people. It may not even be the reality for the people posting those photos and some people. And I don't say this to be a hater, but some people aren't even posting images that they haven't tampered with.So that's something to consider too, just because someone puts out an image and they use all the right hashtags and it looks like, oh, they're revealing something that it's brave of them to show like that one roll. That doesn't mean there was no airbrushing in other areas. Everything could be an illusion, right.And whatever that person is comfortable with, that's fine. But at the same time, if we internalize that I have to be at this point where I've just going to take pictures from all these angles and post them and feel great about it not understanding that that person curated that image too, that puts you in a really tough spot.And you will end up being too hard on yourself as you try and work toward greater self-acceptance.Jade: Yeah. And you know, like in terms of social media it’s a highlight reel, regardless of the types of content that people are posting, you know, whether it be body positivity and all the different forms of what people perceive as body positivity.People are posting the highlights of their journey with their bodies and with the, you know, overcoming conditioning they don't share those moments when they've actually, you know, reverted to an old mindset, or they're still trying to overcome old patterns because it doesn't fit into the image of ourselves that we've curated online. And actually, this idea that we overcome conditioning, but we're still living in that conditioning. It is constantly being forced at us all the time. So, I think there's no way to overcome the conditioning all we're doing is constantly pushing back against it and finding ways to rewrite the narrative for ourselves and for others in particular within body positivity.And I think, again, that's another mistake that people make in this comparison to body positivity and self-love because if I was gonna compare body positivity to anything, which I don't like to do, but if I was going to, it would be body neutrality. Body positivity is the understanding that all bodies are equal and deserve to be treated equitably within our society.There is no good or bad within body positivity. It's not about creating a beauty ideal, in which all bodies are accepted. What it's actually about is removing the body ideal understanding that we shouldn't be hierarchically categorizing bodies. Bodies are just bodies. You know, they don't define us, and we can't put moral value on them.And I think body neutrality is far more important in that sense than self-love because it's understanding that you don't have to look at yourself every morning and go, oh my God, I love myself. Let me take a selfie immediately from all these different angles. It's not actually saying I am neither here nor there about my body, because I'm know that I'm more than my body.I am most important. And people might perceive things about me because of my body but as long as I understand how I perceive my body is enough, that is what matters. And as long as I am carving out space, for my body to be seen and heard and valued for exactly what it is and as long as I'm searching for equal treatment within any space that I take up, that is what's important.So, I think, you know, even if we take away the fact that body positivity has been co-opted, the fact that it's being compared to self-love again, is really problematic in that sense of making people feel like they have to love themselves in order to be body positive. Cause they don't.Dalia: That's such a helpful reframe and that makes so much more sense with the reality of our lives and the fact that we're still in environments that are hostile to our bodies. So pushing back is the goal like, and that is as far as it's probably going to get for a while and seeing the ways in which corporations and other people want to use our sense of self to commodify us is really helpful when it comes to understanding that it's most important that we have a strong relationship with our sense of self and knowing that we are more than our body and more than these individual things that marketers want us to focus on correcting and taking your body back and really living in it on your own terms. It's a vehicle for you to do all the things that you're on this planet to do it isn't a self-improvement project to spend all your days on.Jade: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I know that's a concept that when I'm talking to people about body positivity, I often try to get them to understand that your body is a vessel. It is a vehicle for navigating with the world, for communicating with the world.It is not the be-all and end-all of who and what you are. We place so much worth on aesthetics of a body when the ascetics of the body are the least important, part of all the functions that it has for us. And sure, I think that's a deeper conversation that doesn't really go into body positivity, but in terms of understanding self-worth and having a strong sense of self, it is a really important concept to grasp.Because on days when I am not happy with my body because I understand that it doesn't fit into these Eurocentric beauty ideas that we have and that, you know, for the rest of my life, I have to deal with the fact that maybe we'll never get to a point within society in my lifetime where my body is accepted. But what I can do for myself is understand that regardless of what society is telling me about my body and about my worth because of my body, I can push back against that because I understand deeper than that, that the conditioning that we are facing does not define us.Dalia: Yeah, that's extremely helpful when it comes to work. In online spaces, knowing that it's a highlight reel and also knowing that people are in different stages of their journey toward understanding the things that you're teaching about, how do you navigate creating boundaries and creating safer spaces for the people in your community?Jade: I think the first thing is that I don't engage in any kind of troll like behavior. I used to, I used to feel like because of the privilege that my body holds in certain senses I want it to have the capacity to be able to speak for those who might not be able to have the resources and tools to speak for themselves in these situations and actually try and reeducate people wherever possible in whatever way they were coming at me.So, when I used to have people comment on the things that I was doing online or engaged with members of my community, under my posts, I would always try and reeducate and engage in conversation. But I realized that there are people who don't want to engage in these conversations they're either so wrapped up in the conditioning that they've faced, that their self-hatred is pouring outwards onto other people or, they really do have a deep disdain for my communities. That's, that's none of my business, you know, if, if that is how they want to present themselves to the world, I don't need to engage with that. So, I've set a really strong boundary in that sense of actually saying it's not my responsibility to engage with that person.So, I don't at all. I block any comments that come up, which are clearly antagonistic. And I focus my energy on engaging with the people who want to be there and who are searching for better for themselves. And it's also not just to protect me, but it's to protect anyone who comes onto my page because they don't need to be subject to the nasty, cruel comments that people feel the need to express.So that's sort of a hard boundary that I have recently had set in the last year, kind of a firm for myself that that's not my business to be doing that. And then in terms of, you know, sometimes I don't have the tools and resources to help people through something because I'm working for it myself.And often you'll find in community spaces that you're always triggering things for each other areas of your life that need healing, which is wonderful and it's really important for continued self-growth and self-development. But also, you have the hold space to yourself first. So, in those instances, I'll often say to people, I really appreciate you coming to me with this.Unfortunately, I can't help you with this right now, but you know, please continue to be in this space and it's not because I don't want to be there for you in this moment. It's just that I don't have the resources myself to do that.Dalia: That's really helpful knowing that you have to hold space for yourself first and knowing that that is the nature of community, is that we continually hold up mirrors to other people and trigger growth in them, and sometimes it doesn't feel great. So that can make being in community a challenge, but it really is a place where so much healing happens, but where I've seen it go kind of off the rails is where you don't have someone who's leading the conversation who can help guide the community with community agreements, community standards, like what we don't entertain here, what the space is not for.I've seen a lot of people lately, especially who say they want to grow. And I believe they believe they want to grow, but they're going to all the wrong places, asking for people to guide them when there are so many people who have created resources meant for those folks who are on that one-on-one level stuff with their anti-racism, with their body liberation, with their fat liberation.There are places dedicated to that. There are resources dedicated to that. And when you jump into a community where people have gotten beyond the concept of, oh, are these types of humans worthy of care and respect? That's not the place for you to show up asking, like, but are you sure though? Because I heard that bodies have to be this one way to be worthy of belonging and respect.Jade: Yeah. And I think, you know, I would hope, expect, I guess, from any community members that show up in my space, that they have an understanding of that. And obviously that's not always the case. And depending on what's been going on for me and how many instances I've had of people maybe overstepping their boundaries in certain spaces.I do have time to talk to people and just say, you know, maybe it's good for you to go away and do some research on this before you come back into this community space, because we've moved beyond this conversation. Sometimes I don't have the kind of emotional freedom and I don't have the emotional capacity to be able to have those conversations.In which case I just step away from it. Because again, I, I created this space for myself first for my own self-healing first, and then it moved beyond that and it moved into advocacy, but I will never put my mental health into detriment because of dealing with other people. But again, that's not to say that people can't get things wrong sometimes, which is why I always try and give people the benefit of the doubt.But, you know, if someone's continuing to show up into a space and they've been told multiple times, we're not having this conversation and they continue to have that conversation. Yeah, I just, you know, I have, I have a limit when it comes to that.Dalia: That's a good model for the rest of us, that it is okay and crucial if you want to do advocacy work and if you want to lead community spaces to prioritize your own wellbeing. Because the work is not sustainable without that.Jade: Yeah. And I would expect. Or hope for that for anyone sharing the body positivity space and the online space. I think we do have to be looking after our mental health, because it can become overwhelming.We can expect too much from ourselves. We can expect perfection from ourselves. And I think when it gets to that point of expecting perfection from ourselves, I've seen instances where people start to create another false sense of identity where they don't even realize when they might be causing problems and being problematic within the communities that they are trying to be a voice of reason within.So, checking back in with yourself and reconnecting with yourself and understanding, you know, maybe I don't have the right words, the right tools for this situation, because we're never going to be completely perfect, we're always learning. I don't know everything about body positivity because I wasn't around for its conception.I've had to learn and research all the things that I know about it as a community member and grow with it over time. So, when there are instances where I don't know things, either I go out of my way to research it and bring back the information that I found or I just have to turn around and say, I don't know.I really don't know. I need to do this work for myself before I can bring you into this space with me. And you do see instances of people in different communities, not just body positivity where that's not being done, because we trick ourselves into this thinking, we have to be perfect. And we have to know everything because this expectation has been placed upon us.It's not, it's just not realistic. And I think reconnecting with yourself and holding space for yourself helps to prevent that as much as possible. And also, then being open to accountability and being open to being told, maybe you're wrong in this instance is also important for keeping our privilege in check and for making sure that we're doing the work that we want to be doing rather than what we think we're doing.Dalia: Yes, do you have any practices that you can share that are good for restoring your sense of being grounded? Like after you've had a negative interaction with somebody onlineJade: For me, I, I have lots of little silly sort of practices that I do because I think they're so human that they sort of, they just make sense to me.They might not make sense from people, but little things. Like whenever I pass a mirror, I always make sure to make a face at myself. And this seems like such an odd thing when I tell this to people. It takes away the seriousness of all connection mural reflection, because I don't think it's normal for us to see our reflection as much as we do.It's not really. Ingrained within us to be staring at mirrors all the time or seeing pictures of ourselves all the time. So, whenever I see my reflection, I'll just pull a face or a smile at myself. Just little things like that, that creates a positive interaction with my reflection and grounds me within myself to be like, whatever stresses are going on, whatever kind of negative interactions that I've had that might make me feel negatively about my self-worth or about my body they're sort of irrelevant on the grand scheme of things. That one interaction does not define me, does not define my work. And so just doing little small things like that to connect with myself really make a big difference. And then as kind of a spiritual healer for me doing things like meditation and doing things like you can visualize body scans and connecting with your body and just feeling at home in your own skin.Those sorts of things are really great for just feeling grounded within yourself. And also, being outside whenever possible, obviously is really helpful as well, just for connecting with the world on a wider scale, rather than focusing on the internet, because it is still a very small community, even though it seems like it connects us to everything, it can become a bit of an echo chamber.So, stepping outside of that and back into the real world is definitely, really helpful as well.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that really resonates with the body scans. Do you guide people through those or is it, can you show us how to do that?Jade: It's a little bit of a longer process that I'd be able to share with you right now.But in terms of I was running meditation classes and it will be something that I'm doing again. But you can find body scans and guided meditation during a body scan online. Or if you just search on YouTube, there's lots of wonderful ones. When it comes to meditation, I think the voice is the most important.So, finding a voice that resonates with you and that you feel comfortable and secure with, because it is mostly auditory led. So, you have to find one that works for you. Often people find one meditation, don't connect with it and then think they hate meditation. But in reality, it's just, they haven't connected with the right person.So just keep searching for one that works for you or write your own, just focus on connecting with the body, the sensations that are around you. I like to imagine my energy coming together as a ball of light in my chest, and then that light moving to different areas of my body and just allowing myself to feel that, connecting with the ground, those sorts of things.They just help to center you. And help you see your body as more than its aesthetics and actually understanding all the things that our body does for us on a day-to-day basis. And that's, you know, as someone with chronic illnesses, it can be difficult to appreciate your body when you feel like it's almost working against you.But those little moments of connecting back with myself really helped me to have appreciation for all the things that my body does do as opposed to kind of berating it for the things that it doesn't do.Dalia: That's really helpful. Where do people keep up with you so that they can be in touch when you start offering those again?Jade: So, I do have a Facebook page it's called a Safe Space to Grow. There hasn't been much on there for a few months. Cause we were talking about before we started I kind of needed to create space for myself to focus on certain projects. So that has taken a back seat to now. I do also share sort of mini meditations to my Instagram page @bodiposipoet. I'm hoping to start showing them short.Really short one-minute snippets as well to TikTok at some point, just to add a little bit of sort of body positivity and grounding into that space as well, because it can be a little bit chaotic at times.Dalia: Yeah, absolutely. Just a few people who've done that really creatively since, you know, the video just starts over and over again, the way they did it, it feels like a full meditation, like as long as you want it to be because of where starts over. So, I love that idea. We'll be looking out for that. Are you, is it the same handle on TikTok?Jade: Yes. It's actually @artbybodiposipoet, because I was originally using it for my artwork and will continue to use it for that purpose as well. But yeah, I'm sure if anyone wants to find it, they should be able to.Dalia: Wonderful, thank you so much for coming on. I'll definitely have the links to your Etsy store and all of those other places.Jade: Oh, thank you so much for having me. I love that every time we talk, there's always something new and different that comes out of the conversation. So, yeah, I've loved it. Thank you so much.Okay. I know it wasn't just me. Was that, or was that not just packed full of gems? Jade really dropped a lot of knowledge on us in this episode. Be sure to look for Jade on TikTok and on Etsy. I am really pulling back with social media these days thinking about how to use my energy in the most effective way for all of the things that I want to do so you probably won't find me on social media.But you will be able to find me in the comments on Substack. I'm working on building community there, doing coaching asynchronously there because that's a way to make myself accessible to a lot more people at once. So, I hope you will check out that option that is for the supporting members. Of the show and the body liberation for all community in general.I will have links below in the show notes to give you more details about that. If you feel called to check it out. Thank you so much for joining me. I will talk to you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
Dalia Kinsey joins The Body Myth for a conversation about looking at the body in a holistic way, how health intersects with racial identity in the US, systemic LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC oppression and how allies in a lot of spaces tend to take center stage, why we don't need to demonize any body size, and how as a culture we spend so much time trying to control our bodies instead of using our bodies to do the things we want. Also in this episode: -ideas for reconnecting to your body -a closer look at the health at every size and fat liberation movements -the effect of generational trauma on health Dalia Kinsey is a queer Black Registered Dietitian, keynote speaker, the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, and author of Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. Dalia's work can be found at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ Listeners can register for a chance to win a free copy of the book here https://sendfox.com/lp/199d4p They can follow her on Substack to read articles she has written and listen to new episodes of her podcast https://daliakinsey.substack.com Ronit is a writer, teacher, and mom who has taught elementary school through high school and whose writing has been featured in The Atlantic, The Rumpus, Salon, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Writer's Digest, Scary Mommy, American Literary Review, and elsewhere. Her memoir WHEN SHE COMES BACK about her body image struggles and the loss of her mother to the guru Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was named Finalist in both the 2021 Best Book Awards and the 2021 Book of the Year Award and a 2021 Best True Crime Book by Book Riot. Her short story collection HOME IS A MADE-UP PLACE won Hidden River Arts' 2020 Eludia Award and will be published in 2022. She is also host and producer of the podcasts And Then Everything Changed and Let's Talk Memoir. More about Ronit: https://ronitplank.com Have a body image story you'd like Ronit to read on air or want to take the Your Body and the World survey? Follow this link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScZiXP1FklUkWaYg4T6IAqFKDRp6OIvef4be8SRHVaaWt044w/viewform Sign up for monthly podcast and writing updates: Follow Ronit: https://www.instagram.com/ronitplank/ https://twitter.com/RonitPlank https://www.facebook.com/RonitPlank Photo credit: Baran Lotfollahi on Unsplash Theme music: The Lighthouse by Sounds Like Sander
This week, my guest is Dalia Kinsey, a nutritionist, speaker and author, who works at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice. Dalia and I talk about: Identities, how we identify and how the language of identities is personal and changes over time. Health vs healthcare and how our daily experiences and emotions including joy impact our health behaviours. Why Dalia wrote a book specifically for BIPOC and LGBTQIA folks. How Dalia worked up the courage to write a book proposal and get a traditional publishing deal. And so much more. You can check out season 1 and other season 2 guests of Writing Black Joy over on https://www.writingblackjoy.com/ You can find more about Dalia at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ If you want to support us you can join our Patreon community over at https://www.patreon.com/safiyarobinson If you are outside of Barbados, you can find Dalia's book Decolonizing Wellness on Amazon. Use this link, or find the region that is closest to you You can follow me on Instagram on https://www.instagram.com/safiyarobinson77 If you want to know about working with me, go over to https://www.safiyarobinson.com/
Consider this as an invitation to take your healing journey and personal development journey to the next level.Marina Nabão is embodiment coach dedicated to supporting people through a trauma-informed journey of somatic healing and empowerment. She is a Brazilian, biracial, Black, cis-woman living in the SF Bay Area, CA.As a daughter of a psychologist and a philosopher, curiosity and the search for a broader understanding of life is her natural state. So it’s no surprise that her own search to understand her inner world and grow in all areas of life – professional, relational, affective, sexual, and spiritual – have taken her on a very rich journey.This episode we discussHow trauma remains in the bodyStages of healingHealing through meaningful self-connectionSomatic work for non-binary folxDalia: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonize wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.Today I have a special guest on the show to talk about a subject that's really been calling my attention a lot lately. I have been rereading The Body Keeps the Score and thinking about the ways that trauma and unprocessed emotions get trapped in the body.I've noticed myself some very strong reactions to seemingly minor incidents in my life at work clearly connected to previous negative experiences and racialized trauma is just like any other kind of trauma. You can have issues with purging these negative sensations from your body and having a very powerful instantaneous, negative trauma, like response to anything that reminds you of these past experiences.So, embodiment work and focusing on the body and those sensations and moving them along so that I can have a reaction that feels manageable to stressful things is what I'm focused on right now. So, I’m so excited to have Marina here, Marina works with them, body meant and trauma of all kinds. The things that Marina discusses, and this episode will be useful for everyone, but very useful for somebody working with trauma, you've already gotten other treatment for that you still aren't feeling peace around, because the embodiment piece has been missing from your healing work so far.This is such a good conversation. Let's jump right in.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So I thank you for tuning in. Let's go.Dalia: Hello. Thank you for being on the show.Marina: Yeah. Thanks for having me so excited to have this conversation.Dalia: I am excited, always to connect with other folks of color from all over the world, but in particular folks of color that do healing work that come from different cultural backgrounds, especially anybody connected to the diaspora. I just get super excited about that, because it's interesting to me to see how as you change, as you kind of become part of the country that your ancestors were pulled into and you become a blend of the different peoples that are from there. And then the people who colonize that area, we all have really interesting ways of manifesting some of the old healing traditions, you know, that we have no possible conscious way of connecting to.It's just beautiful to see how nothing is ever lost and keep coming back to the surface and it looks different on different people and in different parts of the world.Marina: Yeah. I love that cause I love that integration of the different ways that we can approach healing and really reclaiming the old ways of healing that have big been parts of generations of the original people of the planet. Dalia: Right. Right, exactly. So I know you're based in the U S now and you're on the west coast. But can you tell us a little bit about where you were raised and when you were growing up, did you have a connection to healing practices or what was that relationship like with you?Marina: Yeah. Yeah, so I was raised in Brazil that's where I'm from and I think that's part of my upbringing was connected to receiving what we can call unusual healing. There are many people who are, I don't even know how to say this in English I think it would be something like ‘the blessers’. So these old grandmas who actually developed such a beautiful connection with themselves and their intuition and their spiritual guides that they can bless other people. And we’d go there to receive a blessing. Then they share something that they feel called to share around the ways that you are treating yourself. The food you are eating the people that you're hanging out with and things that you could do so that you would find more balance in your life.So this is a big thing in Brazil, especially in communities where people are more integrated socially. So like Black communities, people who live in what we can call marginalized neighborhoods or something. And this has always been part of my life. I never even thought of a life without it.That's what you do. You feel you're feeling off. You're not so sure. You are feeling sad then you communicate with one of these grandmas, they will share their wisdom. So that is one thing, the other is that my mom was always into what we can call integrative medicine.She was always into floral therapy, healing, our body and spirit, good eating habits, macrobiotic, whole food products, and things like that. So for me, I think part of my growing up was learning that our bodies have this self-healing capacity. That it's a matter of us being patient enough and aware enough to connect with it intentionally so that we can find ways to notice what a disease is trying to tell us, what a discomfort is trying to show us. To find ways to address the environment that is creating the disease, the environment that is creating discomfort not just the symptoms. Dalia: Now it makes so much sense, but you said something really crucial it's being patient enough to wait for it to work because that I think is one of the hallmarks between western medication when we approach our symptoms that way. And sometimes those don't even work as quickly as you want them to, but typically you can expect to see a change maybe that day, maybe in a week, maybe two weeks and a lot of other approaches because you're not just putting a band-aid on one symptom, you're trying to get to the root of the problem, it can take longer. So in a culture where we feel like we don't even have time to sit down and feel unwell. We don't have time to take one day off, then what do we do? So, what has it been like for you coming to the U.S. do you feel a big difference in the pace that we're living at running counter to the way the human body actually functions and thrives?Marina: Oh my God. That was shocking. That was really shocking. To really notice this shift in the speed at which things happen here. Right. So, I don't know if I can speak for all Brazilians, but in our culture in general, we have this idea of the U.S as the land of opportunity, right? Hollywood sales that so beautifully to us.So you come here, you're nobody, you come with a dollar in your pocket and then you become this millionaire, blah, blah, blah. You know, and also the fact that in order to do so, there are no boundaries, no limits to the amount of work that you do. Because if you want to be a self-made millionaire you have to put all of yourself in it.Right? So there is this image, at least for me about the U.S. but it was not until I actually moved in here, and I didn't come here for work or anything. I came to the U.S. for love because my husband is American and that's how we ended up here. So it was very interesting to notice that everything is so fast.It's boom, boom, boom. Now, now, now, yesterday, it's not today its yesterday. And no wonder people are so stressed out. No wonder people are so disconnected from themselves. No wonder people feel so lonely because they can not even connect with themselves much less meaningfully connect with others, right?So, when you say that here people don't have the time to rest or to take a day off. I would say, well, maybe that's actually why people are getting so sick. Maybe that's actually why people are feeling so, so many discomforts on a physical level, but also on a mental health level.Dalia: Yeah. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And when we look at, when scientists look at other cultural groups that are living a lot longer than the average person in the United States, that's always a factor like prioritizing connecting to people, communicating with people and not prioritizing work over all other things, but that is a very, very American thing.If you're not working, then who are you? And even when people introduce themselves, their identity centered around, do you do? And I can understand that if what you do is something that you were called to do like if your healer, your preacher, your something that's central to your belief system.Okay, fine. I can understand that. But a lot of times people leave. Something that just signals to other people. I earn money and I work long hours because it has become a value here.You mentioned something really interesting when we were talking before the call, when we were just getting to know each other, after we'd come across each other in a group it's focused on decolonizing your mindset around business, and it's led by an American person who really has made a difference in my life in how she explains how so much of what we believe about how business must be done. It's not the only way. And talking to you and hearing about how you've noticed that people who can't seem to get into their body who have issues with embodiment and that causes problems throughout your life.And maybe on some level, I knew that, but nowhere near the level that you were explaining. So can you tell us about the work that you do and then we'll talk about how did he ended up doing this?Marina: Yeah, so I like to call myself an embodiment coach and a somatic healer. The work that I do, basically it should help people reconnect with their bodies. It is to walk back into this connection with self with intention, with awareness, with patients, with care that this body is sharing information all the time. That this body is much wiser than the mind at times and it's telling us what to do, how to do at what pace we should be doing things.If we learn to integrate that that with the mind, the work that I do doesn't mean this disregarding the mind, it's about integration. It's about the combination of mind and body, and of course, giving space to spirituality in that connection. But to really allow people to notice that we can not just function from the neck up.We can not just live our lives, thinking that we can think ourselves out of a disease, out of a discomfort out of, you know, all the things that people have been experience thing in terms of physical and mental. We actually need to be able to feel those in our bodies and from this space, learn to reconnect to make the changes that our bodies need so that we can lead a healthier life.That is the gist of it. The big part, the big picture of it. And there is the trauma healing component of my work, because if we study what research has been showing us trauma lives in our bodies, right?Trauma is not the experience. Trauma is actually our body's perception of or reaction to a life-threatening experience, to something that was too intense, too overwhelming, too difficult to handle.And then our bodies trap that information and start responding to events, freeze, fight, flight, fawn mode. So in order to heal evil trauma also should integrate the the body. We cannot talk ourselves out of trauma, right? Talking about trauma is only a piece of the healing process that happens when you're a further ahead in your healing. First it's around connecting with your body, noticing how your body's responding to traumatic experiences and then finding ways to regulate your nervous system to discharge some of the energy of that trauma so that your body can find balance again. Right? So, but the beginning has to be about embodiment. It has to start with recognizing tension in the body and then from there we develop a somatic to healing trauma. If that makes sense…Dalia: It does make sense. When I read The Body Keeps the Score. I felt like some of it, maybe we all knew intuitively, tiny bit. Right. But then to see someone study how deep the lasting effect is on the physical body when you're in a situation where you feel you have no control, or you literally have no control, and you're afraid you're going to die, that you could even lose sensation in extremities that had nothing to do with the incident. And we all heard about adverse childhood experiences and how that shortens your lifespan, not as a rule, but your chances are higher if you never have an opportunity to heal what that experience did to your body, how your body internalized, all of that fear. How did you even realize this was an area you wanted to work in? Because even if you interacted a lot with healers as a child, sometimes it's hard to see yourself that way, especially if those healers were like people almost had to live the experience, like you said, they're old grandmas, so it's like they took years and years and years to get it. So when did you understand that you, as a young person could also be working in a healing space?Marina: Yeah. Well, I think it's a combination of factors first. My mom is a psychologist, which is a healing modality in a way. So I had that beautiful example and home. And I have been to healers myself to view my body, to heal my own traumas and to actually get to know myself better because healing is also about self-development. It's not just about feeling one specific thing, right? It's about learning more about ourselves. And for me, when I started, I was always curious about so many things in life.And I started learning more about holistic sexuality. I've started doing workshops and programs and courses to learn, to recognize my body in a more loving and even spiritual perspective of this body as a sacred temple. And to for me to really tap into the deeper knowing of who I am in the deeper knowing of who I am in my mind, that leads me to reconnect with my spiritual self, right.And by doing so I've found so much healing for myself. I've found so much empowerment for myself as a Black woman in a Latin country. Empowerment is a big, big word for us, right? Because of that so many things started shifting for me in terms of how I perceived myself, how I perceived the relationships that I had not just with other men, but the relationships that I had with friends, with family, the relationships I had that work. And so I was an executive in the corporate world that is dominated by white, straight, very conservative man, interesting place. And then noticing that I didn't fit there anymore.That environment was not fulfilling me anymore. And, then I had this inner calling, this inner knowing that, you know, my life is going to change a lot and actually I want to dedicate myself to supporting other women and non-binary people who have vulvas, because that's what I understand more of the female body that the vulvaed body.And then I started transitioning and studying. I already had the business MBA because I was in business for 14 years and then started shifting gears into coaching. I did the ontological coaching training in Brazil at the same time. I got married to move here and did my sex love and relationship coaching training here.And I've been supporting people since then. And it's been fabulous. And the idea that coming back to the body and connecting with sexuality, sexual desires, eroticism, what I understood that most people would come up with, come across traumas there, you know, things even that were healed or that were forgotten, because that's how the mind works as well.Our brains protect us so much that they make us forget some of the traumatic experiences that so many of us have gone through. And this became a very big passion of mine to really be able to support women, to feel their central traumas. And it's been a very beautiful journey for me, very humbling as well. I feel very honored to be supporting people in, in this path and yeah, that's what I've been doing.Dalia: It's amazing to me, how many entry points there can be to starting to reconnect to your body and how deep the symptoms go when you are disconnected. Because even though with my work as a holistic dietitian, I'm helping people use food and listening to their hunger, physical, and emotional hunger to reconnect to what their body's trying to tell them.I had never thought about how many relationships will need to fall away if you actually start listening to what your body's telling you. And that, that in itself might be a reason why some people don't want to reconnect to their body because they wonder how will my life have to change if I actually listen to myself.And what will that feel like? Is that something that is a source of resistance you come across and peopleMarina: Yeah so much. I can see the faces of some people with shared that with me, like, oh, well who will I become then? If I go this deep into myself, I will have to face things that I am comfortably hiding under a rug, you know, so that I can live the way I've been living.It's a path of truth. It’s a path of really facing the truth of who we are. And once you've faced the truths, making that judgements that we need to make in life to live in a way that is more fulfilling, right, and more fulfilling for whatever it looks like to a given person.It's a path of tapping into one's authenticity. And I don't think everybody's prepared for that and that's okay. That's okay.Dalia: Now, how long did it take you to accept that? Because that's something I feel like I struggle with. When I'm not ready to change, then it's fine. But when other people aren’t ready to change and I see where something could be of service. I'm just like, I don't get it. I don't get it. So when did you understand that?Marina: When I really started understanding trauma, so I'm taking the somatic experiencing training, and this is focused on trauma healing from a somatic perspective. The deeper I went into understanding how trauma acts in our bodies and our minds in our behaviors in the way that we are enabled to lead our lives the more compassion I felt in my heart for myself and for those around me. So when I'm aware that trauma exists. So many people have trauma and they have no idea so there is a space in my heart that can easily understand why it is so scary to go through change.Why it is so scary to connect with your body because your body has overwhelming and difficult memories stored there. So it makes a lot of sense for me when a person shares, Well, I, I don't know if I can live more lovingly, you know, this is not good. I'm not happy, but that's the way I've been living for so many years for so many decades. And I don't wish I can make that change.When I hear someone say that for me, it's like, huh, there is some wound there that might be so scary and so painful that this person is ready to touch it. For me, that's invites my radical acceptance of who people are and where they're on their journeys. Because it is not easy, right?It's not easy repeating patterns over and over again that are painful, that are harmful, that hurts you, that keep you small and keep you in abusive relationships for that matter. But it's also not easy to break free of that. Right? I think there is a path that can only happen when people are ready.So like whenever I'm talking to someone who wants to work with me for the first time and heal child wounds, most people working with me are focusing on healing sexual trauma. My first questions is why now, so I can understand the motivation that the person has. Like some people live with a traumatic memory for 20 years, 30 years, and then they come okay, I want to, I want to look at it and I want to heal this. My question is why now?What shows you that you're prepared to deal with it right now? And a lot of times it is because people have had the opportunity to walk through a path of self-development or some lighter kind of healing and then they see that they can handle this, this big transformation.And I think that when people say, oh, I'm scared. I don't know what's going to happen. What I will become? Maybe they have some steps to take before Does that make sense?Dalia: That makes so much sense.Ad breakTired of being at odds with your body, sick of diets and weight cycling that make you feel like trash. Would you like to finally make peace with food so that you can focus on what your actual purpose in life is?What would your life look like if you trusted your intuition and let your true desires guide your actions? 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If that sounds good to you, just visit daliakinsey.com/coaching.Dalia: I saw recently online someone who does consulting, not necessarily healing work, made a point that just because someone isn't ready to work with you, it doesn't mean they don't think that what you offer is powerful or valuable.But if it's a service that requires a partnership with the client that requires them to also participate in the process, they may not want to work with you because they don't yet believe they can complete their end of the relationship. And I had never really thought about some of us offer services that are not for people at the start of their journey.And that's also incredibly important. So I see things all the time where I'm like, wow, this is so popular. Something that someone's offering, but I'm like, but it feels like it's on the surface. And for me, it wouldn't take me deep enough to get to another level, but I've been obsessed with personal development and healing since I was in my early, early teens.So of course that stuff doesn't appeal to me anymore because that's not where I am on my journey. So learning to respect where people are and to stop wanting to kind of force healing on people has been a process.Marina: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes so much sense because everybody has to start somewhere really. And also there is a part of me, I don't want people were not ready to do the work to actually hire me 'cause then it's not effective.You know, if people are not ready to take responsibility for their healing to understand that the healing process is bumpy, it's not like a walk in the park, it’s not full of flowers, right? It's, it's hard at times, depending on the amount of trauma there, the depth of the wounds it's hard.And if people don't have some of, even that stability in their lives to hold them through that. I prefer that first they do some other work. Some foundational work. And then they come when they're ready, because that's where I can serve them in my best. I can really be of service to them as opposed to someone who is not ready.Dalia: Right. What might that foundational work look like for some people? Cause I have heard from some people that are really worried about their own health, someone who's multiple people because you know, so many people have survived, sexual abuse as children. So, so many people and a lot of these people in my personal life are tired of living with the effects of having to distance themselves from their body to be safe and to feel comfortable, but they don't feel ready and they want to be ready and they don't know what that in-between space looks like.How do you bridge that gap or figure out what might be a step for you?Marina: Yeah. So I am going to use the same book.That you brought us as an example. The Body Keeps the Score, which is an amazing read Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk wrote the book. He mentioned that yoga, theater, acting classes, dancing, classes in like martial arts, things that involve the body are great ways for people to start befriending their bodies and coming back in a connection that it's not targeted at healing, their trauma.So it's not a therapeutic work, but it is bringing them back. So if you're doing yoga poses you need to be aware of what you're doing. If you're acting you're aware not just of yourself, but of the, all their actors around you, in your positioning in relation to them on stage. All of this contributes for a person to slowly come back to a possible relationship with their bodies, even when their bodies are still carrying so much memories of trauma. They're coming to a more deep work into embodiment work in somatic healing. That makes a lot of sense to me.Dalia: Yeah.Marina: For some people, it's actually some talk therapy, some workshops, women's circles, community circles, you know, things that invite people to connect little by little to who they are, their feelings, their emotions, their expectations of community, relationships. Even if it’s a more shallow level, even if it's not very deep, but it opens the way to come to an environment for somatic healing being a little bit more prepared, if that makes sense.Dalia: Yeah, that does.Marina: If you look at The Body Keeps the Score he's sharing some amazing results of clients and patients who are suffering like post-traumatic syndrome. I don't like to say disorder. I think it's an injury. It's not a disorder. And being able to know slowly come back to themselves with yoga, acting, martial arts, qigong and things like that.So that would be my suggestion for people who want to start. You know, start light, but with things that are inviting you inwards, You know, and then you go into a deeper process. If that makes sense.Dalia: That does make sense. Have you found that for people who are maybe feeling uncomfortable in their body because their gender identity and their assigned gender doesn't match are the same interventions helpful?And if so, how do people get to that point where, okay, maybe you still have other things you need to do to feel totally at home in your body, like maybe gender affirming surgeries and your future, but you can't do it now.How do you make friends with the body that you feel like isn't yours and you know?Marina: My training in somatic experience is such a beautiful invitation to reconnecting befriending and getting curious with the body and the physiology and the nervous system regulation and all of it that I can only imagine how a person who is not, who doesn’t feel this body really represents their identity and how they want to express in the world. This would be like invaluable for someone to have a space with a qualified professional to explore how they feel about their bodies. Right?So for example, for a person who was born with a vagina in actually would prefer to have a penis. Perhaps exploring the relationship with that vagina first so they can get into the core, the deepest part of their desire for a penis, then from that, knowing that it's not just a rational knowing, but it's a felt knowing in their bodies start making, you know, designing the steps to get what they want.So I know many practitioners who specialize in trans and gender nonconforming and non-binary people doing somatic work and the things that they share is like, it's amazing. It's amazing. This populations could benefit a lot from somatic work, because there's so much about the gender identity and expansion that is stuck in the body. Right.So how can we, again, how can we have these conversations while we actually ignore the body, while we actually ignore the object of our discomfort of our disalignment? Right? So if we're, if I have boobs and I'm uncomfortable with boobs, it's not just thinking about this, it’s really addressing the boobs in the body, how do you feel about it. What is some sensations that comes to you when you connect with that?Right. And from there finding what it is that this body really wants to express.And for people who cannot go and have surgery and make the changes that they want right away, I think, I think then the coaching way of addressing things. It's like, okay, what can we do now that can be helpful for now that can be supportive for now.And what are the steps that we need to take in order for you to achieve this bigger desire to do whatever it is that you want to, you know, and then I think it's really about the coaching way of reaching a goal of connecting with the desires that are within the desire that that's living the wisdom of the body.Dalia: Yeah. Oh, that makes sense to me. And I think has people don't talk about the experience of being gender nonconforming, but finding a way to still connect to your body 'cause they don't talk about it enough. It almost feels like, oh, well, what if it's not possible for me to be friendly with my body while I feel like simultaneously it betrayed me around the time of puberty, but it's encouraging to know that other people who are trans, who are non-binary are doing this work and feeling the benefits.Marina: Yeah. It's really, it is really powerful. It is really powerful because then all the transformations that you end up performing in your body come from a place of deep understanding, acceptance and love for who you are. Right. And then the body starts reflecting that.So as opposed to a place of rejection, you know, it's really all honoring who you are, your real identity. And then the body is slowly, starts conforming to the way that we want the world to perceive you, that you want to see yourself. But yeah,Dalia: That feels so subtle, but that resonates the idea that, it's just so interesting, I think it's that framing from kind of a binary perspective that it almost has to be rejection, but in reality, it is simultaneously a deep acceptance of who you are of knowing that you are not cis-gender person and allowing that to take form in your life. However it's supposed to take form for you.Yeah. That's a, that's a powerful perspective shift. Yeah.Marina: It's, it's shaped seeing through the lens of love. And for me, that's where the beauty lives. So I love who I am. And although the world thought, because I have a vagina and I should be a woman, I say no to that. And out of love for who I am, I express my gender the way that it makes sense to me, that the way that is true, not only in my life but in the core of who I am in the core of my body. And this is expressing from a place of love, pure love, radical love, actually.Dalia: Yeah. Ooh, that is powerful. In an actual session what might somatic healing look like when you do it with a guide? What is that?Marina: Yeah, it can look like a lot of things, but basically. A session can start with a conversation.So for example, if I'm working with someone keening sexual trauma, it's not a conversation about what happened, you know, revisiting the past. It's not about that. It's about noticing the patterns, how you are feeling. What are things that are working for you? What are things that are not working?So many people who experienced sexual trauma have a very and hard time with relationships with romantic relationships, with intimacy, with having sex.Right? So we will have a conversation around that and then invite the body to the conversation. So when you think about relating to someone new, how does your body react? Oh, I noticed contraction. I noticed that heartbeat goes high and I feel the temperature change.All right. And then from there addressing the sensations. Right? So giving space for those sensations first to be felt to be seen, to be prepared and also using some somatic, um, movement, sounds, breathing, making movements with your body, shaking, dancing, all kinds of things so that those sensations can have a space to, to be really well not just released, but to be moved, to be expressed, and then coming back into stillness and laying and giving space and the time for your nervous system to find some regulation, to discharge some of the energy that it is ready to discharge. And then another way, what else are we talking about and how are we going to address this? So it's, it's always, um, almost like a back and forth conversation. So the rational mind, you know, storytelling narratives and then noticing the body, what is happening here? Right?Of course, this is a very simplistic way of saying how this works, but in reality, this takes people into such a deep place of inner knowing of inner understanding. And that's where healing is. You know, healing is not in my hands as the somatic healer. Healing is inside the person looking for it.So as a somatic healer I guide the person into noticing into being. And of course, using my own way of doing that, really allowing the person to know that it's okay to feel what they're feeling. But they have confidence that they're not alone.And that the body is so wise it's so wise and knows what to do. And slowly because we're healing the present because we're healing our relationships to ourselves right here right now, slowly we build some strength in our emotional body, our physical body in the ways that we can experience intense sensations, thoughts, emotions, feelings, that's going back into past traumatic memories become possible.And then we can find integration. We can renegotiate that experience if that makes sense. So healing trauma, it's about feeling now healing the body now so that you can renegotiate what's happened in the past.Dalia: Oh yeah. That's such a clear description. I know. As we age, we stop using our bodies are moving our bodies and ways that are maybe unpredictable.So I could see you would need a guide to even do that. You can see children intuitively release tension after unpleasant things happen to them. Assuming it's a small and manageable negative experience, you know, but they do it in ways that you would never think to do in an office setting. After you have a conversation that makes you feel some type of way.So it's fascinating to know who we can go to, to recapture those skills that we forgotten and probably a bunch we've never heard of before as well. Where do people find you?Marina: I invite everybody to come to my website https://marinanabao.com/. I think you're going to type this.Dalia: I'll put it in the show notes.Marina: Yes. I'm a little bit old school. I really like keeping my website updated. All the information is there. And also Instagram @marinanabao. I'm not there every day, but I'm there every week. Sharing a little bits of inspiration, little bits of what I do. And for folks will want to get to know my work better if you are called to work with me I offer a free conversation so that we can get to know each other.I can understand what people are looking for. We can see find the best person for them and from there we can start a coaching and somatic healing process.Dalia: Thank you so much for coming on. I only have one final question. If there was one thing that you could say, and everyone would instantly understand it and internalize it for the rest of their lives.What's something you would like for everyone to know?Marina: the chains of trauma don't need to be the way that you lead your life forever. You have right here right now, regardless of what happened, regardless of how hard it was, you have the capacity to heal, to live a life that is filled with joy, with radiance, with vitality, and you can fully thrive. I think that knowing that we have this self-healing capacity and that our bodies are the key to that our bodies are pure medicine, that is what I really want people to know.Dalia: That’s beautiful.I love being able to discuss things that really aren't on everybody's radar as a healing tool, and very often and indigenous cultures you'll notice that healing work always involves a physical element, an embodied element, but because many of us live in areas where disconnection from the body is the status quo it's frequently left out of the healing process.I love the idea of reclaiming our connection to our old ways and also incorporating information from the collective. Because the African diaspora is now spread all over the world, all of us have integrated with the local cultures in many different ways. Thanks to the internet as well, we are able to create hybrid versions of healing practices that work for us that are grounded in what our ancestors did, but are also a blend of what people in our part of the world are using. This is something that can evolve over time using your intuition and doing what feels right for you.I personally use all kinds of quote unquote modern healing tools like cognitive behavioral therapy, pharmaceuticals that support mental wellbeing and embodiment work and meditation. I approach my wildness with all cylinders firing. I am interested in anything that has the potential to enhance my experience of life with a minimal to acceptable level of risk. Even holistic health practices sometimes come with a little bit of brisk, but I love how many different embodiment practices are totally gentle with minimal risk. So this is an under-utilized tool that I'm sure we're going to see more and more of.Be sure to check out Marina. I have the link to her website in the show notes. Marina is doing amazing work and is taking on clients at this time. https://marinanabao.com/Remember the only fee for the show is that you share it with others. Anytime you hear something useful, and around here, that is every episode.So feel free to share the episode on IG on Facebook, wherever you hangout online and let everybody know what you got out of the episode. Also, you can always like, and review the show on iTunes so that it's easy for other people to find.Thank you in advance for helping this message reach more folks that need it.Also Decolonizing Wellness is now available for pre-order. If you're listening to this after February of 2022, it's just available to be ordered. So check that link out in the show notes and get your copy. www.daliakinsey.com/bookDecolonizing Wellness is perfect for you if you enjoy the themes I talk about here, it's focused on QTBIPOC looking to heal their relationship with their self image and their relationship with food. Even if you feel like you have a peaceful relationship with food I go a little deeper there and look at using food and eating as a mindfulness tool and a self-empowerment tool.So there's something there for all of us.I hope you'll check it out and let me know what you thought. Okay. Thank you for joining me. I will see you next time.Body Liberation for All ThemeYeah. They might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept when the world is tripping out tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them live your life just like you like it is.It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, for my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard. Look in the mirror and say that it's time to put me first. You born to win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone. So I thank you for tuning in. Let's go. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
Today's episode is about being criticized for our work and actions! Your hosts — and fairy godmothers in Tapping — Collette Schildkraut and Lee Uehara, got today's Tap-Along idea from their friend, Dalia Kinsey, RD, LD, who just wrote the new book, Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape The Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. It's all about self-esteem today, mommas! Also, next week, you'll want to attend the Spring Energy Event: THE EFT Tapping + Wellness Retreat from Jondi Whitis, EFT Tapping Master Trainer. Lee will be there, so get your ticket -- so affordable -- and hang with her and everyone else. And, the line-up of speakers is NOT to be missed! And, BTW, Lee and Collette are on CLUBHOUSE, the new audio drop-in app! Click HERE to join them! Literally, you can log in and drop in to meet with them LIVE each Wednesday at 11:00 a.m. EST. (Sometimes they get there at 11:30am or 12:00pm, but those are rare times.) They talk about all things EFT Tapping, have guests at times — and do their famous Tap-Alongs! Join them and ask to Tap on whatever is on your mind. While the pandemic is still going on, Collette and Lee haven't been able to meet up in person to record more episodes just yet. So they thought this would be the perfect temporary solution. So again, go join them over at Clubhouse. Just click HERE to join their club, The EFT Tapping Club! You can always visit them at www.TappingLikeAMother.com, or on Instagram, or you can email them: info@tappinglikeamother.com. They'd love to hear from you!
Dalia Kinsey is a non-binary Queer POC who joins us this week to discuss Dalia's book: Decolonizing Wellness: A Qtbipoc-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation. Join us as we discuss a host of topics both financial and well-being that can help all of us thrive. Remember to subscribe to the weekly show notes newsletter for a chance to win a copy of Dalia's book. For the resources and to connect with our guests, get the show notes at: https://queermoneypodcast.com/subscribe
This episode is a gift. Charlotte James and Dre Wright, the co-founders of The Ancestor Project share their knowledge of using sacred earth medicine as a tool for liberation. Dre and Charlotte make it clear that there is no such thing as a magic pill/cure all for the ills that systemic oppression cause us, but sacred earth medicine can be a life changing catalyst for growth. In the end the magic is within you. But if you’ve been feeling called to discover what role plant medicine can play in your healing journey you are going to love this episode. This episode we discussUsing plant medicine or sacred earth medicine in your healing journeyRadical self-love as a major step in spiritual workSafety and the importance of BIPOC integration circlesCatalysts for growth vs magic pillsRecognizing your lineage and ancestral healing tools Dalia: Hello and welcome to another episode of Body Liberation for All. I'm your host and decolonized wellness and body image coach Dalia Kinsey. I help queer folks of color heal their struggles with shame and self-acceptance through nutrition and self-care so they can live the most fierce, liberated, and joyful version of their lives.I have been interested in instant enlightenment for a really long time and through research and personal growth, I realized that there's no such thing, but that doesn't stop me from being distracted by or enthralled with any promise of short cutting personal and spiritual growth. So when I started hearing more about plant medicine and hearing all these over the top dramatic stories about how it's changed people's lives in one session, of course, I was interested.So this has been something I have had some personal lived experience with. And what has become really clear is that just like any area of wellness, where people have monetized something that does have true healing potential, you have to be an educated consumer. It's extremely helpful from the standpoint of a healer to encourage people, to keep their expectations in check, because just the way the human brain works and how susceptible so many of us are to suggestion there is massive potential for disappointment when we create specific expectations fir experiences that yield wildly varying results. I'm so happy today to share with you a conversation with two healers that really are invested in the liberation and the growth of the people that they work, who aren't just out here selling big promises. They're about the healing work and transformation. Dre and Charlotte from The Ancestor Project, give us some really helpful tips in this episode that I think will help anyone who's considering using plant medicine or sacred earth medicine to continue moving forward in their healing journey.I'm sure you're going to enjoy this conversation. Let's jump right.Theme SongYeah, they might try to put you in a box, tell them that you don't accept. When the world is tripping out, tell them that you love yourself. Hey, Hey, smile on them. Live your life just how you like it. It’s your party negativity is not invited. For my queer folks, my trans, people of color, let your voice be heard.Look in the mirror and say it’s time to put me first, you were born win. Head up high with confidence. This show is for everyone, so I thank you for tuning in. Let's go!Dre: I am a spiritual being, having a human experience. My fundamental nature is pure creative power and unconditional love. I'm Dre a co-founders of the Sabina Project and we actually changed our name to The Ancestor Project, but we're honored to be here and yeah. Thank you.Charlotte: And I am Charlotte James, the co-founder of the now Ancestor Project.Dalia: Thank you so much for being here. That new name really resonates. I had to do a little research to try and understand where Sabina was coming from, but can you tell us about that? And what made you feel like a name change was more in alignment?Dre: You know, as healers, a big part of, being in our opinion to be an effective healer is to do a lot of self-reflection.So when we came up with the name, The Sabina Project, who was because we were Charlotte was at a talk and there was, uh, there was a mention of Maria Sabina. But it was mentioned in a very, like, they, they spend a lot of time deifying and all these white men and, you know, acting as if they discovered mushrooms and the, and these traditions and oh yeah we want to give a shout out to Maria Sabina. Right. And there's a, there's an important backstory behind that actually, you know, see there was a tremendous amount of pain and suffering. That she experienced, uh, after sharing this medicine with Watson who lied to her to get her to share a ceremony. You know, one of her children was murdered. The house was burned down. The Mexican government treated her like a drug dealer. It wasn't a good experience. Right. Watson came down there. He had an experience. He was supposed to keep it secret, but then he wrote this article in Life magazine and then all these westerners besieged her home village.And that was not good for the family. So knowing that, Charlotte stood up and started breaking this down. Like, oh, we couldn't, you need to do a little bit better job of venerating this ancestor. And so after the talk we were thinking about a name, she was like we wanted to name it Sabina Project.This was a great example of cultural appropriation, right. And how the west takes advantage. However, we didn't ask Sabina for permission to use her name. Right. We thought it was a good idea. And even though our intentions were good, we were in fact doing the same thing we're calling out in other individuals.So in self-reflection the changing. Charlotte: Yep. Yeah. It is some soul searching, some ego checking. Um, and yeah, we want to continue to be an example, um, in the psychedelic space and to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. And also, you know, as we expand in this work, the truth is that the traditions that we practice, that we learned from that we venerate and that we come from are not just one tradition.And so we wanted to have a name that was more inclusive of all of the ancestors that brought us to where we are now. So yeah, we're The Ancestor Project.Dalia: That's fascinating that it came up for you in that context. What initially led you to be interested in using plant medicine as a healing tool?Was it first a tool you used personally? Or something you just wanted to explore because of some other reasons.Charlotte: So we definitely work off of the mindset that the medicine calls you in, and it happens in a number of different ways for different people. We both have really seemingly like on the surface, very different introductions into our path in this.I first started using cannabis when I was 14. I know that it was incredibly supportive in helping sort of chill out some unrecognized, high functioning anxiety tendencies. And really supported me and like moving through high school and college I think at that point, my mind was already very open.Uh, I had had a lot of mind expanding experiences. And so when other psychedelics or plant medicines like were offered up, I was open to the idea of exploring that. And yeah, whether I was doing it incredibly intentionally back then, it certainly was like key to getting me into where I am as a person today.Dalia: I know for me personally, it's always felt like everyone around me who is part of the dominant culture uses drugs recreationally at some point in their lives without fear of it completely changing the course of their life. But I always felt like I better not touch any of that with a 10 foot pole because the minute I even think about something that's restricted, I imagine the man's just going to pop through a wall or something like that.That was always my concern. And it feels even more outrageous that a lot of these medicines were in the hands of the people that now are not allowed to use it. On a level, the narrative is still that, oh, this is restricted, but no, it's only really restricted for some people. So how do you encourage folks of color who want to access the healing potential of plant medicine to do so?Because they know there are some things that are legal here in the states that maybe aren't as highly publicized, that could also be useful. And then there are places you could travel to where you can explore other types of medicine without as much worry. And then there's different worry about like, can you trust the provider? How do you set the setting? What advice would you give someone who is just starting to think about possibly exploring plant medicine?Dre: Good question. Great question. And then, you know, the answer is layered.You know, back to what Charlotte said before the medicine calls you when you're ready to answer, right? These medicines are millions of years old and wise. So that’s the first thing, the second thing is understand that all of the information that you have learned has been information that's been shared to you by the person who did and is currently imprisoning your black body, right. So why would you trust them? Right. And you should start asking the question. Why, why is it that, you know, an African-American male has, is 900% more likely to be arrested for simple possession of cannabis in the state like Maryland used to before it was legal.When in the United States, we use cannabis at a lower rate. So the reality is too, that there is a significant difference in the types of punishments that we receive or how these laws are enforced. Right. On the other hand we will not liberate ourselves from this oppression logically, right? We have to use both sides of our brain.Our superpower is from getting connected with these medicines. It is the path to our collective liberation. So if you want to spend another generation, explaining to your children, why they have to act differently and be treated differently because of their color, then you go ahead and do that. If you want to be on the liberation train, you're going to have to use some tools outside of the ones that we've all tried that have not worked.We've had a black president we've, you know, how much evidence do we need to have before you, before we realized that what we're doing, protesting and all that in fact, that's not really the answer, right. But there is an answer, right? And it's, it is our ancestors. This medicine comes from my ancestors.And they will get us to a place of liberation. Right? If that's important to you and some folks, you know, this lifetime, some aren’t ready to be liberated for those that are, this is the way this is the path.And then how do you approach these medicines? Well, I would say surrender to the idea that these medicines can support you and then you will, well, what tends to happen is the universe will open up for you and provide you with access. The pathways will come to you. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear, the first thing that you have to get past is the fear of these constructs.You know, this is the same government, if you think about most of the medications that you've been given that, that call quote unquote alright. Again the thought process and the belief systems that you have in you have been inculcated with nonsense.For example, they spread ideas like black people are lazy. But they used our black bodies for free to work. So clearly, you know, its the transfer of their sins onto us. So we've got to stop believing or at the very least question, their ideas, philosophies, and belief systems and start seeing them for how corrupt they really are. I would say that would be the first step, right. It's just like really, you begin to deconstruct your colonization. They don't have to actually control your body anymore. They've got control of your mind.Dalia: So is that why for you this is such a key part of the liberation process is because at this point, a lot of the feelings of imprisonment are just ingrained mentally and they're not physically there anymore.A lot of the barriers are gone, but it's hard to see them. Dre: Colonization is self-replicating. Patriarchy is self-replicating. These abuse constructs are self-replicating. So all you need to do is brainwash one generation. We still, as people of color, talk about light skin and dark skin in our communication.In so many dysfunctional ways, you know, we still, we are more religious about Abrahamic traditions, we hold on to those traditions tighter than they do. Right. We've got to take deep breaths. Right. And just realize that you can make different choices in our lives.And then once you start tapping into that stream of consciousness, all the opportunities that connect with these medicines, will be available.Dalia: You radiate calmness. This has been a really trying time for everyone. And you're also working as healers experiencing a lot of stress because of what people bring to you. And also because people want to block you from doing your work. There’s so many levels in what you just shared. I can hear the balance. In the last webinar that I attended, I saw that there were clearly colonizer descendants present as well, but you're able to face the fact of the horrors of the damage that colonization has done and allow descendants into the space. How do you find that place of, I guess, equanimity where you can hold room for both.Charlotte: If I could start on that one.I think part of what we recognize and also teach, especially when we focus on anti-racism work is that we have actually all been colonized away from our animistic and indigenous shamonic traditions. And this is oftentimes the root cause of cultural appropriation to bring it full circle is that folks are so disconnected from their own traditions that they begin to take from others and do so in a disrespectful and non reverential way.So we hold, you know, our like first true. community offering that we still carry through is our BIPOC integration circle that we do twice a month. And that's a time for us to come together with our BIPOC family and just talk about our experiences with the medicine and our experiences in the world.Reintegrating, the insights that the medicine gives us into a world in which we do exist within structures that are built to oppress us. Outside of that, our space is open to those who are willing to sit in their discomfort and face the role that their ancestors played in getting us into the place that we are now, and also the role that they play in perpetuating it.I know you, I think you came to the microdosing to dismantle oppression, workshop or masterclass, and you know, the whole, our conversation around working with these medicines for personal transformation is working to dismantle the systems of oppression that we've internalized so that we can stop projecting them and replicating the systems of abuse externally.And so, you know, we keep our community open to that conversation. I also, you know, I'm a biracial person and so I have to contest with that in my own identity as well. You know, I think it's important to be authentic to our lineages and our experiences in this space as Black folks with many different backgrounds and nationalities and heritages.Dalia: Yeah, I was recently reading, you know, the historian and the person who specializes in genealogy, that's always on PBS with famous folls, I think it's Henry Louis. Right? So it's so interesting in his book, he points out that so many Black families have these stories of Native American or first nations ancestry.And it's almost never the case. It's almost always European ancestry. And so this is something that a lot of Black Americans struggle with reconciling that no one is a hundred percent anything. That's just literally not a thing. And because of how binary race is seen in the states in particular, that can be really difficult for people to deal with because how we're socialized is typically going to be one or the other, like people don't let you just fully be yourself.So how has the medicine affected your ability to maintain your peace every day dealing with all the layers and all the work that you have to do to fully accept yourself in a world that makes that a little tricky.Dre: Yeah. Some, some good questions today. I got this Black dude, you know, the word that keeps coming up for me, the question, the last question is low, right?So we start from there. We are homo sapiens so 4% or so of our DNA might be Neanderthal. We are homo sapiens the species. Okay. We are also carbon based creatures and everything in the universe is mostly carbon. Every one of us is relatives.At the end of the day, this, the conversation we'll have is specifically now is about a 3d reality. The illusion that we walk around, the walking dead, I like to call it this, this illusion, we do live in a very abusive experience.Right. But we have the ability to transcend this reality, right. And then bring back that power back to this 3d world. Instead of us being the genius that the genius moves through us. Right. And for us, and that the universe inspires on, our behalf. Right. I think one of the reasons why the Abrahamic traditions and colonization have been so successful is that they got us disconnected from the other part of our brain.You've been using that logical, linear pathway that only distorted information and got us disconnected with the other side of ourselves. Right. And so what we are encouraging every human to do is understand the name that you chose before your parents were born. Right. And this reality, right? Yeah. So I think really at the end of the day, deep healing starts with having deep radical self-love for yourself, not defining yourself by anyone else's ideas, except for yourself, your true essence, right? And then when you are radically deeply in love with yourself, they have so much compassion and love. Most of the trauma that we are experiencing in humans most is from other humans is not from disease.And most of that trauma is simply the word. That another human uses towards us. Right? It's that? It's that dad, your dad not telling you, he loved you when you were six and now you're 80 and you're still traumatized by that experience. That's when most of us, so we'll want to get deeply in love with ourselves, right?And then once you’re loving yourself and really understanding your true essence, the medicines allow you to get out of your own way and allow you to heal the experience.Dalia: That sounds like deep spiritual work. Does it matter what traditions accompany this type of healing?Well, first, can you kind of tell us what animism is because that isn't something we hear about a lot in the west.Dre: So the easiest way to think about it is this is begin to seeing yourself as part of this great collective that we call the earth. I, and you you're one of many different organisms and you're related to all these things, right.And to develop a deep reverence and respect for those things for yourself. That's what all hunter gatherer traditions share, connection. Some of it was aligned with the food they were eating as well and how they survived. There was a deep connection and reverence for yourself. And then the other part of that was.So if you have both of those two things aligned, that's the practice. Find our ancestors practice, these ways, the flow. Charlotte: Yeah.That's this idea that every living and even what we would consider a non-living beings on this planet is alive and that we are an intrinsic part of that. I don't know if you've ever seen the graphic and it's like one side will say ego and there's like a little person on top and then various different kinds of animals underneath the person.And then on the right side, it will say eco. And it's like the person as part of, in a circle with all of these. Beings. And so it's the idea. Shamanism is really the idea of going from a dominion model, which is your right, like where there's a dominant culture, there's norms that are accepted as a dominant way of life to living in.I forget the term that, that like shamanism uses. To living in, in equanimity with everything around us. And you can find that tradition on the continent of Africa, in the Amazon, and also in Nordic tradition and Viking tradition in Russian tradition. So that's not something that is specific to Black and brown cultures, something that was specific to indigenous culture and there's indigenous culture around the world.But I thought that the question you asked around, like, does it matter what traditions you focus on in this like realm of healing or sort of sacred earth medicine healing space. I think a lot of what we talk about is educating folks on the lineages that these medicines and traditions come from, because you'll see now that there's a lot of research being done around how these medicines work and what they heal and can cure.And really our ancestors already did the research on how to safely and effectively use these medicines to support our collective liberation. And so for us, it's important to learn from these traditions to understand the context of the medicine. But again, circling back to this, you know, idea that we all now are very, like, sort of pluralistic in our identity.It also means that you can work with more than one tradition and there is not any sort of dogma around that aspect of it. And there's not even that much dogma within the traditions frequently.Dalia: Thats refreshing. And that's very different from like a colonizer perspective. Everything's always very one or the other confined. So I have noticed that, especially here in the states, it just seems like members of the dominant culture are running this healing space. What have you noticed is the difference in how folks of color, or maybe not even folks of color in general, just how you specifically, how is this tool different when it comes to.Through you basically tired of being at odds with your body, sick of diets and weight cycling that make you feel like trash. Would you like to finally make peace with food so that you can focus on what your actual purpose in life is? What would your life look like if you trusted your intuition and let your true desires guide your actions.This episode is brought to you by the master intuitive eating and self-trust total transformation package. This is the program for you if you're ready to heal your relationship with food once, and for all this, isn't another generic bod pos coaching program. This program, centered on liberation, will free you from chronic dieting, poor self image and self doubt. Nutrition is the tool that we use to reconnect to your inner wisdom and your sense of self-worth. This three month coaching program will give you the sustainable results you've been looking for by the end of our time together, you'll have a firm grasp on intuitive eating, you’ll be at peace with your body, and aligned with your purpose, and your true desires. If that sounds good to you just visit daliakinsey.com/coachingDre: Ancestral practices. You know, we, both of us had been in the dominant white spaces before, and there's a lot of forms of sensationalism, the medicine itself and the proper what's the dose. And I saw this, but when you get around predominantly BIPOC there tends to be a conversation around practice, around respect, around reverence and connection with your ancestors, which is really beautiful and fresh.And I don't think we've done last year. We did. I dunno, we did every first and third, Sunday, we do integration circle and I don't think we've ever had a conversation about an experience asking what was the dose and all that type of stuff, you know, sensationalized experience.Dalia: Well, my partner checked me yesterday.I think it was a few days ago because they are part of the dominant culture. And they're like, every time I walked by the off you are saying something about colonizers. He didn’t feel like it’s a blanket term people can connect to now. And I said, well, maybe I need to start looking for ways to address the reality of the situation is that we are dealing with fallout from colonization.But then also, like you said, it happened to everyone really but I think it's clear who is suffering on the more violent end. But everyone is suffering. So I'm experimenting with that, that term.Dre: Yeah. It's also interesting because we are using, you know, that try to have these conversations, but ultimately they used in our colonization.Right. Which is very unlimited. Right. And it ultimately pushes us to put ourselves in these silos where we separate, you know, like whiteness is not actually real and we've been perpetuating this nonsense, black and white forever. And it just separates us and keeps us from not focusing, you know, that the reality is that even your light brothers and sisters out there, most of those folks, all those folks have been victims of colonization.If you think about, you know, what the pilgrims suffered, right before they came over here, they were setting those folks on fire and putting them on crosses for their belief systems. Right. So we've all suffered the tremendous amount of abuse. And then what happens is, you know, the usage is heavy and it's tremendous.And so you, you begin to see. When we notice in our own communities where folks have self-hatred and they treat their own folks worse, than the perceived dominant culture does. Dalia: There's so many levels.When did you become clear on your personal dedication to being liberated? And wanting to liberate othersDre: When I get there, I’ll let you know. Now every day, every day I realize in how many ways I am complicit in the abuse. Just a real simple example, for years, I would teach young men how to survive a police encounter, you know, roll, crack your window, put your hands on the steering wheel, ask for permission, you know, how to survive a police encounter. And during that time, it must've been like 10 years. I was teaching straight, very proud of all this training and never occurred to me that in addition to doing that, I should be dismantling the system that causes me to have to teach Black boys to act differently in a police encounter.Right. So we all completely, I joined the military, right. So, you know, I've been brainwashed just like the rest of us, you know?Charlotte: I feel like that's part of, even that is part of this narrative, right. That we like compare our trauma to each other, to say who was more or less traumatized. And that means I should be in this place or that place on my journey.No, we all respond to trauma differently. And we all have been tried in the same way. We've all been colonized. We've all been traumatized at different degrees. I think it's just like we are we're humans, you know, like we, we may do medicine work or be at a different place in our medicine journey, but like we still come back to the 3D every time and have to deal with the human stuff.Dalia: Yeah. I think that's really helpful because sometimes from the outside, you think that people who seem really far ahead of you in their spiritual journey have an easier time, or maybe we're less traumatized and less brainwashed than youCharlotte: Actually this story circles back to one of your earlier questions that we didn't necessarily answer completely, which was this question of like how you begin a relationship with the medicine or how you find a practitioner or a facilitator or a scent, a retreat center that is going to be safe and support.So we do our virtual BIPOC circles twice a month. We do masterclasses for surely around once a month. And sometimes you do series as well and then in person, we work with Kambo medicine and Rapé which are two legal, sacred earth medicines. And so they support us in being able to support our community and in a way that we can like talk about very publicly because they are legal medicines and Rapé is a medicine that you can begin building a relationship with on your own.So we do virtual ceremonies where we send out medicine to people, and then we gather together on Zoom. Teach them how to administer that medicine and work with it.Dalia: Tell me about the services that you have available right now and what people who live in your area can do with you and what people who are farther away can work with you on.Charlotte: So I think it's a couple of things. It's funny what you said. There's that meme of like a kid trying to step like six steps up the stairs at once. And you know, the first couple of rungs are like meditation drinking a gallon of water a day, breath work, and then like rung six is psychedelics. And he's like trying to hop through.Nothing's a magic pill and that is why we focus a lot on the preparation and integration because it's about taking the downloads that you receive in ceremony and then turning those into daily action, because what we are not encouraging is like constantly running back to the medicine without doing the work, to integrate the lessons.So, yeah, there's question around being committed. Once you answer the call of the medicine, making a commitment like a holistic commitment to your wellbeing is what is going to move the journey along, but like coming to the medicine and then not changing any of your habits or behaviors or belief systems is like not, not going to work.Dalia: Now with that type of plant medicine, the experiences that you're going to have, are they more subtle? And it's more like a supportive aid versus there's some other things, you know, everybody always wants to shortcut and myself included. There's some things that you fantasize that, oh, I'm going to take this thing and we're going to go on this retreat and I'm going to be enlightened by the end of the weekend.Pretty sure that is not a thing ever. What do you find people have the most resistance around? Is it that it's still a journey? That it's still a lot of work or that we have all these really hyped up fictional perceptions of what plant medicine is going to be like?Dre: I mean, we have that example today, right?Just lots of people in the I'm not comfortable with the word dominant, what you see is people doing lots of psychedelics and lots of mushrooms and LSD and all those types of things. And then they create companies that churn out more abuse, right. They, you know, like in silicone valley is it's popular to do, to microdose so that you can work harder, longer, right.And create more apps to create more addictions to us. So clearly doing these medicines without the right set and setting the right guidance is not effective. And the difference, the big difference is in the west, what you have is young people, traditionally experimenting or leading the way in this conversation. Our ancestors, the elders would bring the young ones to a right of passage, when it’s time for you to take on a new role and responsibility as part, a member of this community and they would do ceremony to move them to that next level. So there was a reason, there was a why, and there was a how to do these things, not folks, you know, dropping acid and drinking alcohol.There is no magic. And just like the movie matrix, you know, why don't you take that pill? And you realize how you are complicit in everyone's abuse to include your own trauma that you're reliving daily, the stories that you tell yourself, the poison that you've ingested and that you're living in and the embodiment of that poison over and over again, the person told you you were unloved, unlovable, and unworthy.And now every morning when you wake up, you tell yourself that story over and over again, you reinforce it. But is that the reality? So you could potentially have what they call a rebirth experience, your very first ceremony. Sure, but all that would mean is that you would realize how many more layers of work you need to do.And then there's your ancestors you need to support. Lets say your parents, and their struggles and your ancestors and there's the rest of the community that needs to be healed. We encourage you to take the pill, but it is definitely not a magic pill. It's just the beginning.It's just the beginning of many, many layers of learning how to love yourself, deeply compassionately and love other people deeply compassionately and passionately at the same time.Dalia: .Where are the downloads coming from when you're in ceremony? Is it from you and your subconscious or to some part of you that's connected to something bigger like an ancestor or like a God?Dre: Yeah. So I'm not going to just say, normally this is the first time I've done this. We're not going to answer that question because I think it's like a spoiler, right? Right. I think the west has this tendency of asking what’s right. But in a number of practices, you know, your job is to experience. You spend years watching and listening and observing, right.This is the thing it's about the experience. The experience will, will clarify me so, right, but I don't want to give you too much information. And then you, and then it becomes a, well, I just heard it someplace. So maybe this is how do I know that this is even real for me. Right? Cause I heard it. So, you know, what I can tell you is is that every person who has had a mystical experience with these medicines say it as one of the top five experiences in life. I will tell you for me as a person, the birth of my daughter was a greatest honor and privilege of my life to see her being born. the first five minutes of skin to skin.It was a seminal experience, but sitting down with ayahuasca was the most important decision I've ever made. I would not be half the father I am, or the human I am if it was not from sitting with and surrendering to these medicines.Charlotte: Yeah, thank you for, for saying that joy, because I think this goes back to, you know, the difference of what we see in our integration circles. And one of our key group agreements, not interpreting other people's journeys, but I think we also don't really hear it. Like in circle, people are not really saying, like giving a play by play of what they saw, what they heard, what they, whatever.It's so much more about building this relationship of trust with yourself and the medicine, so that you're open to receiving whatever the medicine brings. And the medicine always brings what you need, not necessarily what you want. It can be challenging, but it does always bring you what you need.Dre: Yeah, for sure.Absolutely. Now I will give you a little hit. Right. So part of what this is about is asking a better question. And the question is what are the habits, beliefs, ideas, and people that no longer serve me, that I'm excited to let go. And what are the habits, beliefs, people, and ideas I'm excited to attract. Notice it's not you doing something like you creating something.It’s simply just allowing the universe to conspire and attract those things into your life. So that question is how do you begin to develop a deep and powerful intention in your ceremony? And then after you have the awareness, then you're now it's time to do the work.Charlotte: Yes. Thank you for saying that. That is what I like distracted myself, but I think also in not answering that question too directly, it's like, we don't want to set expectations because the whole purpose is to come with strong intentions and have no expectation of the medicineDalia: When people are trying to do their integration do they ask themselves those questions again, or look for ways to just get clear on what revelations they think they had?Dre: Great question. So if a person is privileged enough to do a ceremony, part of it is that you come to it with lots of reverence and a little bit of concern.This is a big, it's a big deal. And thoughtfulness a tremendous amount of thoughtfulness in the setting and getting prepared for this thing. And then the goal is to live a life of ceremony, right? Live a life of thoughtfulness and prayer and reverence and connection to yourself, the daily.It's the paying attention to your compulsion's and not reacting to compulsion's when reacting to the thing isn’t the highest best choice for yourself. And to these medicines, we're hoping, again, to understand the name that you chose before your parents were born. The ego part of ourselves, is the self that can be the deceiver. Oh, I really need that sugar or I need alcohol. All those are things because I'm feeling I need to fill a hole. Right. And to take some external source to do it, but then when you're radically in love with yourself, that isn't it. There's no hole to fill, I'm in love.Listen, the only thing I need, continuing to nourish myself and connect with others in creating an environment a nourishing one. That's my role. Okay.Dalia: Is that the purpose of your life, do you feel?Dre: All of our lives. And then, you know, the question, those questions you asked me, I would say you ask that question daily.Like this was the daily inventory. A good morning practice when you get up is to do an inventory of all those aspects of yourself, really beautiful when you realized that you are now not all on autopilot, right? Just going, you know, just living the life that other people told you. And now you're in control of your movie, your story, your experience today, that's really super exciting and also scary too.Because now you can't point things to anybody else.You have to really take new steps. It is nuanced though, because remember in the 3D reality that we live in the are still structures, there is a governmental system that, you know, is quite oppressive towards people of color.And so that is not just here in America, but all over the world. So all this will have to pay attention to that reality as well.Dalia: If there is just one thing you could say to the listeners and they would understand it instantly and carry it with them for the rest of their lives, what would you want for people to know?Dre: Every one of us has super superpowers. It is true that you're probably never going to tap into those superpowers until you can connect with these plant medicines and surrender. They're older and wiser than you as a homo sapien will ever be, they have knowledge and traditions and teachings enlist them as your oldest relatives.So sit with those relatives and they will open a doorway or pathway to healing and liberation like you never could dream it. We don't need to continue to perpetuate this idea that we are victims. We’re kings and queens that have to step into our power.This is your path.Charlotte: I would say, give yourself the gift of living your life. Dalia: That's really powerful. That was so good. Thank you so much for coming on. How do you think is the best way for people to connect with you?Charlotte: Right now you can find us on Instagram as @thesabinaproject and our site ihttps://www.instagram.com/theancestorproject/https://www.theancestorproject.com/That will be changing soon, but you'll still be able to find us it'll reroute to where you need to go.Dalia: Okay. Perfect. I’ll make sure to put those in the show notes as well. Thank you so much for being here. Dre: Yeah. Thank you for having us. We're honored to be here.fDalia: I love how grounded and realistic the insights and advice Dre and Charlotte offered are. I encourage you to check out The Ancestor Project on social media and also check out their integration service. That's specifically for BIPOC who are working with plant medicine, maybe on their own, and need a place to get the most out of their experiences and to fully integrate what they've learned in their daily life.Remember the only cost for the show is that you share it with others anytime you hear something useful. These days, I'm confident, that is every episode. So feel free to take a screenshot and share that you've been listening to on Body Liberation for All. What was your takeaway from this episode?Remember that Decolonizing Wellness is now available for pre-order and if you're listening to this after February, 2022. It's just available. It's out in the world. Please check out the show notes and go ahead and order your copy. All right. Thanks for joining me. I'll see you next time. Get full access to Body Liberation for All at daliakinsey.substack.com/subscribe
CONTENT WARNING:This episode covers wanted and unwanted sexual experiences, and uses genital and sexual language.Dalia Kinsey is a Holistic Registered Dietitian and Decolonized Wellness Coach and just plain dope! We dove into how we navigated our sex lives after escaping a cult and what reclaiming our bodies can look like with a lot of support, laughs, and boundaries. Dalia also shares some radical wisdom on how the health system is not properly supporting nor educating folx in sex ed. Big congrats on your new book, Dalia! SIGN UP TO WIN A FREE COPY HERE!Listen to Part 1 of our chat, Escaping and Recovering from Cults and from High Control Religious Groups on Dalia's podcast Body Liberation for All.CONTACT GUESTFB: Groups/decolonizingwellnessIG: @daliakinseyrdMUSIC: LoFi Beats to Contemplate YT Supremacy by Cloud Stokely PRODUCED BY: GoddessSUPPORT SSChttps://www.paypal.com/paypalme/GoddessSowerOfSeedsFOLLOW SSCSunseedcommunity.comFB/IG: @SunseedcommunitySubscribe to SSC here
Chelsea talks to Registered Dietician and Inclusive Wellness coach, Dalia Kinsey about feeling seen, working on really seeing other, getting comfortable with the uncomfortable, white supremacy, listening for understanding, activism and SO MUCH MORE! You can connect with Dalia via her website daliakinsey.com, connect with her on social media via her facebook group @decolonizingwellness, and listen to her podcast, Body Liberation for All on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and buy her book Decolonizing Wellness here! And don't forget! If you pre-order Chelsea's Book Inexplicably Me and either email her your receipt (chelsea@chelseaaustin.com) or post your receipt and tag her on social media (@chelseaaustinmdw on Instagram @thegirlwithfivenames on Facebook) to receive a personalized thank you, a bookmark, AND 25% off Chelsea's Flip The Script course in 2022!
not a momma life: a podcast not just for childfree women, for childfree humans.
Today's podcast take over episode we are hearing from Dalia. (No pronouns non binary) An advocate for the QTBIPOC community and more. This episode is an experience not just a valuable episode. This is an episode you can come back often as a meditative retreat too. If this is a taste of the value the book will be - what a gift that will be. In Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation, registered dietitian and nutritionist Dalia Kinsey will help readers to improve their health without restriction, eliminate stress around food and eating, and turn food into a source of pleasure instead of shame. A road map to body acceptance and self-care for queer people of color, Decolonizing Wellness is filled with practical eating practices, journal prompts, affirmations, and mindfulness tools. Ultimately, decolonizing nutrition is essential not only to our personal well-being but to our community's well-being and to the possibility of greater social transformation. https://www.daliakinsey.com/book (Here is the link to purchase book today! ) https://www.daliakinsey.com/about (More about Dalia.) https://www.daliakinsey.com/privatecoaching (Work with Dalia.) Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/zimpzon/calm (https://uppbeat.io/t/zimpzon/calm) License code: C8RVVURUZSRRZXIP
TRIGGER WARNING: This episode is a really heavy discussion about discrimination and racism. Please take your self-care into account and skip this episode if necessary. I promise I won't be offended. If you've been a long time listener you know I don't have authors on the show (or at least it is really rare), but I've made a big exception in this case because of the topic matter. Dalia Kinsey's book is written specifically for the QTBIPOC community. It discusses the marginalization and discrimination that QTBIPOC people face in wellness spaces. While I am cis-gendered and white, I realize that this is an important topic and one that deserves a spotlight. I brought Dalia on because we need to be hearing these voices. You may also recognize Dalia's name. Dalia Kinsey has been on the show before. We discussed Body Respect by Lindo Bacon and Lucy Aphramor. In that discussion, Dalia talked about writing a book and Decolonizing Wellness is the full circle to that discussion! I was sent a digital copy of the book and it is truly spectacular. Here are a few of the things we discussed:The full circle momentWhy this book is importantWriting about traumaYou can't buy your way out of racismRacism is everywhereQTBIPOC stress and why it is harmfulThe problem with Gone with the WindCentering yourself and honouring your emotionsWhat decolonizing wellness meansThe importance of helping people answer, "but how?" when it comes to self-lovePositive thinking has its limitsWhat transformation does this book support?What allies can get out of this bookKeep reading everyone!Dalia's LinksDalia's websiteDecolonizing WellnessFat Girl Book Club LinksYour Better Body Image ChecklistFB groupPatreonFat Girl Book Club Pod IG
Our next guest is not only the author of a book we both can't wait to read - Decolonizing Wellness - but also talks specifically to those individuals who are at the intersection of BIPOC and LGBTQ identities. When you think about bodies, beauty, and self-care, that's often a group that gets lost, not only in popular consciousness but also in media portrayals of what is considered desirable or attractive. And, when you're struggling to be seen, or fit in, or even survive - this can be devastating. This was yet again one of those conversations that we didn't want to end, and each of us walked away with different ways to think about not only our own bodies, but what we put in them, how we interact with those around us with regard to wellness - especially kids, and ways in which we can better support and understand the struggle of marginalized individuals when it comes to preconceived notions of health and beauty. Have questions, comments, or concerns? Email us at hello@dearwhitewomen.com What to listen for: How cisgender, heteronomative, Eurocentric standards of beauty that we see in mass media add to the body image concerns of queer people Additional challenges to body positivity when it comes to people who are both BIPOC and LGBTQ+ Knowing and listening to our own bodies better, including what we put into them Kids, nutrition, and diet culture About Dalia: Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian and Inclusive Wellness coach with over 10 years of experience working at the intersection of holistic wellness and social justice in public and private sectors. Dalia rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool to counter the damage of systemic oppression. On a mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in the LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC community, Dalia leverages years of experience creating safer spaces for clients to help teams build communication skills that create a solid foundation for inclusion and belonging. Host of the Body Liberation for All podcast and author of Decolonizing Wellness: How to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation; A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Self-Love, Dalia continually creates wellness tools and resources that center the most vulnerable, individuals that hold multiple marginalized identities. Dalia's work can be found at https://www.daliakinsey.com/ Connect with Dalia: Instagram Where to order your copy of Dear White Women: Let's Get (Un)comfortable Talking About Racism: https://thecollectivebook.studio/dear-white-women Like what you hear? Don't miss another episode and subscribe! Catch up on more commentary between episodes by following us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter – and even more opinions and resources if you join our email list.
We are so excited that Dalia Kinsey is joining us today on Chatting Over Chowder! Dalia and I met when I was offered an opportunity to cohost a Clubhouse with them for WOC Podcasters. Since the first time we chatted, I knew I wanted to have them on the show! Before we begin, things you should know: Dalia's voice is BUTTER! Secondly, they have a new book that you should purchase immediate: Decolonizing Wellness. Now, let's get to the chatting. Join us as we chat about: How a 7 year old child has the sales skills we all need Sharoline had the entrepreneur spirit for design since she was a wee lass Dalia's very early experience with audio How they accidentally was drawing the wrong people into their space Responding to trauma in the workforce Why everyone needs to know Race isn't real The different aspects of being black in this country Where you can find Dalia: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/daliakinseyrd/ Website: https://www.daliakinsey.com/links Podcast: Body Liberation for All Book: Decolonizing Wellness Free Guide Decode Your Hunger Podcasts that Dalia recommends: Couples Therapy Nosy Neighbors
We live under so much stress and exhaustion because of systemic oppression and racism. Up until 2020 and the outspoken racial tension in the U.S.A., everybody was telling us this wasn't real. That was a lie. What's worst, is when you'd seek out safe spaces to heal only to encounter that same feeling of oppression. Is decolonizing wellness the answer?Dalia Kinsey and author of the upcoming book, Decolonizing Wellness: A QTBIPOC-Centered Guide to Escape the Diet Trap, Heal Your Self-Image, and Achieve Body Liberation, and this week's guest thinks it will help. But does it mean to decolonize wellness? And what does that look like? Join us in an open discussion on how we can begin to heal the wellness space and reclaim what is ours from a cultural and indigenous perspective. Show notes: https://hellawellwithdanielle.com/podcast/decolonizing-wellness/ Be sure to also join the Hella Well With Danielle newsletter for my biggest ah-ha moments from each episode and special announcements. Sign up at http://hellawellwithdanielle.com/join-wellness-revolution/.Thanks so much for listening! If you like this episode, please subscribe, rate, and review.
This episode we are switching things up with a fun bag of diamonds, you'll see ;) Today we have Dalia Kinsey who prefers no pronouns. This episode we have a good time and get down to some in depth convos about imposter syndrome, our experiences being black and queer, and how food and listening to the body can translate into other areas in life in powerful ways.
In this special episode, we explore a podcaster success stories thanks to our friends at Audry.io. In this replay from the Reclaim your time Off festival we meet Dalia Kinsey. A Registered Dietitian, Decolonized Wellness and Body Image Coach and the creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, a show dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of QTBIPOC folks.
Dalia Kinsey - a Decolonized Wellness and Body Image Coach, Registered Dietitian, and creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast - is this episode's guest. On the episode guest Dalia Kinsey reflects on the field of dietetics including bias and racism within the field, time in school learning about dietetics and how the wellness industry can be decolonized. We also chat about how 2020 changed Dalia's career path from a general dietitian to doing decolonized wellness coaching that focuses on BIPOC and LGBTQIA folks. Dalia and Allison talk about the things that pissed them off. Allison is fired up about the horrible, terrible Marjorie Taylor Green. Dalia is pissed about America being self righteous, but in truth has a dark history. The Who's that Lady (from History)? is Gladys Cooper Kidd Jennings, an educator and nutritionist. Resources: For Dalia's podcast, IG and services: https://www.daliakinsey.com/
The damage that colonization has done to the consciousness of over half the world's population is mind boggling. Beauty and body image have been in the eyes of the colonizer for long enough. If you want to honor and celebrate your body and stop viewing it through a eurocentric heteronormative lens, this workshop replay is for you. It's decolonization season
Welcome to Self-Mastered 2021! Dalia Kinsey and new co-host Stefanie Giannini discuss the future of the Self-Mastered podcast. We break down how we plan to combine our passions of wellness, self-help, and leadership to help listeners work towards a life of success and meaning. Join this episode to get inspired for your future. Reach out and let us know what your personal goals for 2021 are. Self-Mastered (originally School Nutrition Dietitian) has come to an end Keep in touch with Dalia Listen to my new show Body Liberation for All https://www.youtube.com/daliakinsey Purchase a copy of Decolonizing Wellness https://www.instagram.com/i.v.a.t.i/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/selfmastered/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/selfmastered/support
Despite being raised as Jehovah's Witness, Dalia Kinsey already had an awareness of diverging from the traditional framework of sexuality that was presented to her as a child. After growing up and coming out as queer, she recounts her experience of leaving the cult-and thus the community-she had known for so long in order to live her life freely. By doing the work of enforcing boundaries and continually honoring and returning to those feelings from childhood, she now implements the values of transparency and authenticity in her work as a dietician advocating for body neutrality.Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian, Inclusive Employee Wellness Specialist, and creator of the Body Liberation for All podcast, a show dedicated to amplifying the health and happiness of LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color) folx. On her mission to spread joy, reduce suffering, and eliminate health disparities in her QTBIPOC community, she rejects diet culture and teaches people to use nutrition as a self-care and personal empowerment tool.03:00: Being raised Jehovah's Witness10:00: The final straw 28:30: What it took to come out39:30: Coaching body neutralityDalia's Social MediaInstagram: daliakinseyrdYouTube: Dalia KinseyWebsite: https://www.daliakinsey.com/Facebook: (Centered Life Coaching)Instagram: (Nancy Shadlock)Website: www.centered.caWould you like to donate coming out support for a deserving person? Click this link to donate via PayPal
We are joined by New Media Marketing Expert & Registered Dietician, Dalia Kinsey as we explore not just the role Social Media plays in how we connect with our communities, but how to leverage this value medium, as well as a number of other interesting and thought-provoking topics.
Our second feed drop for the month of November is an interview Stephen had with the wonderful Dalia Kinsey of Body Liberation for All! Check her work out at: www.daliakinsey.com "Representation matters. Being treated as invisible or inconsequential in the stories told in your country is damaging. This experience is not just a black experience. This the experience of all marginalized folx. Underrepresentation and erasure are familiar to BIPOC, LGBTQIA+, and disabled folx. Anyone who falls outside of the mythical norm (white, cis, het) is only recently finding their experience reflected back at them in film. In addition to being damaging and frequently unrelatable, always getting entertainment through the same ole stale white, cis, het lens, is really freaking boring. I started to seek out different voices through literature fairly early on (90s) but still was really disappointed that there wasn't a more interesting variety of narratives in mainstream American films. The good news is the 80s and 90s are behind us and in a lot of ways the gatekeepers are gone. Thanks to advances in technology and the relentless creativity of marginalized folx you can access voices and storylines that Hollywood continues to ignore. Today's guest is a both a queer person and connoisseur of horror film. Our discussion of living and loving media that doesn't always love you back is riveting. I love the balance of depth and levity that Stephen brought to this chat." - Dalia Kinsey
Full Episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOiMp7FjifQ Join me and guest co-host Dalia Kinsey for part one of a Body Liberation For All TAKEOVER special! On this episode we join in conversation with friend of the show Jamillah Hinson about creating successful space for black & queer bodies. FOR MORE ON DALIA: https://www.daliakinsey.com/ FOR MORE ON BODY LIBERATION FOR ALL: https://www.daliakinsey.com/bodylibpod http://www.THECOMEUPwithNikWhitcomb.com
On this episode of "How's Your ePresence?" we hosted Dalia Kinsey with Kinsey Nutrition. Dalia Kinsey is a School Nutrition Specialist and Health at Every Size Registered Dietitian on a mission to make health accessible to all by encouraging body respect and joyful movement. Dalia created the School Nutrition Dietitian podcast to serve as a one stop shop for best practices and inspiration for professionals in school food service. She uses this platform to capture the wisdom of veteran employees and to stress the importance of offering students evidenced based nutrition education, untainted by diet culture. Find Dalia: www.schoolnutritiondietitian.com Facebook Company Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Company LinkedIn Twitter News in this podcast: Should you hit that BOOST button on Facebook? Find ePresence: www.epresence.me Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Twitter Find Mark Galvin: Facebook Instagram LinkedIn Twitter Some keywords from today's chat: algorithm, career, ceo, college student, company, Facebook, Instagram, job searchers, leadership, LinkedIn, small businesses, social media, strategy, students, Twitter, TicToc, nutrition, content COPYRIGHT © ePresence, LLC, 2020
I was thrilled to have Dalia Kinsey who is a registered dietitian and a Body Lead Eating Coach. She shared tips and a message of food freedom and self love. ⭐️⭐️⭐️Check out her FREE gift to all listeners: Intro to Intuitive Eating Handout which can be found at: www.daliakinsey.com/guiltfree You can also connect with her on: Her Website: www.daliakinsey.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bodyliberationrd/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daliakinsey/ The host, Chantal Cox, is the author of "Create a Life You Love: 10 Healthy Habits to Transform Your Life Now," and founder of Create a Life You Love Coaching. Chantal empowers women who want to break the chains of anxiety and depression through transformation coaching and sharing the CALYL Foundational Habits. You can catch other video episodes of The Create a Life You Love Podcast within the free Facebook Group: Create a Life You Love Community. facebook.com/groups/CALYLCommunity
"Be kind to yourself." In this podcast Registered Dietitian Expert Dalia Kinsey shares with us how we can all work on positive body liberation. Dalia shares eating tips, habits and how we should view ourselves so we realize we are good enough. I learned so many diet no no's I was not aware of. You can connect with her - www.daliakinsey.com/guiltfree She has a free gift for you! And also on IG at The Body Liberation RD Please share with a friend or family member. Thank you for listening!
The post EP 54 Dalia Kinsey: Feeding Your Student Right Without Wasting Time or Money appeared first on mAke the grAde.
We already know that being a first generation college graduate usually means your parents aren't able to help you with all of the challenges of going to college. But when your parents discourage higher education because of certain religious beliefs, it makes it even tougher. Dalia didn't let that stop her from pursuing her education, finding belonging, and validating one's self. Dalia Kinsey is a Registered Dietitian Nutritionist and School Nutrition Specialist on a mission to make nutrition and wellness simple and fun. She makes health accessible to people who hate exercise and dieting by encouraging body respect and joyful movement.The First-Gen Lounge Mixer: www.thefirstgenlounge.com/events. Join The First-Gen Family: www.thefirstgenlounge.com/family. Share Your Story: www.thefirstgenlounge.com/share. Submit A Question for the Show: www.thefirstgenlounge.com/ask. Track by The Boy: https://theboy.beatstars.com/music/tracks. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.
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