Podcasts about GPG

In this Summer Coolers edition of NHL Wraparound, hosts Neil Smith and Vic Morren review the offseason, roster structure, and playoff hopes of the Columbus Blue Jackets—a team that came painfully close to breaking their five-year postseason drought in 2024–25.The Blue Jackets finished with 89 points, just two shy of the final wild card spot, and were eliminated by a regulation win tiebreaker after going winless against the St. Louis Blues in the season series. Despite the heartbreak, the Jackets were one of the NHL's surprise teams, boasting an offense that tied for 7th in the league (3.26 GPG) and scoring six or more goals in 16 games.This episode examines Columbus's offseason decisions, including the high-profile Charlie Coyle–Miles Wood trade with Colorado, the questionable seven-year, $8.5M deal for Ivan Provorov, and the tragic loss of Johnny Gaudreau, which emotionally galvanized the team early in the season.Can this team stay healthy and consistent for all 82 games? And does head coach Ken Evison have another motivational gear without the emotional backdrop of last year?IN THIS EPISODE:[00:00] Columbus recap: Falling short of the wild card[00:38] Offensive strides and surprising firepower[01:00] Coyle & Wood in, Brindley & picks out in trade with Colorado[01:45] Reviewing free agent signings: Hudson Fasching and re-signings[02:30] The shock of the Provorov deal: 7 years, $8.5M AAV[03:30] Tragic loss of Johnny Gaudreau and impact on locker room[04:00] Goalie update: Jet Greaves promoted behind Elvis Merzlikins[05:00] Deadline departures: Tarasov, Kuraly, JVR, Danforth, Harris[06:00] What might have been: injuries to Monahan and Jenner[06:30] Playoff odds: Can they push over the line this time?[07:00] Shoutout: Matthew Olivier's breakout year and fan favorite statusKEY TAKEAWAYS:Columbus made strides offensively last season but lacked late-season consistency, finishing the final stretch 4–11–1 before winning six straight.The Provorov contract surprised many: a long-term, high-AAV commitment for a player with declining impact.Injuries to Boone Jenner and Sean Monahan derailed what was shaping up to be a playoff-bound season.Players like Kent Johnson, Marchenko, Fantilli, and Sillinger will need to continue developing for the team to reach the next level.Matthew Olivier and Miles Wood are expected to form one of the toughest fourth lines in the NHL, offering a physical edge.In a crowded Metro Division, the Blue Jackets' playoff hopes are real—but so are the risks of another near miss.RESOURCE LINKS:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgBj1LV0-DMfBhcRPSJZLjAX (Twitter): https://twitter.com/NHLWraparoundNeil Smith: https://twitter.com/NYCNeilVic Morren: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vic-morren-7038737/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nhlwraparound/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nhlwraparoundFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61555451139787#NHL #Hockey #Podcast #ColumbusBlueJackets #CharlieCoyle #MilesWood #GavinBrindley #HudsonFasching #IvanProvorov #DanteFabbro #OwenSillinger #DmitriVoronkov #DaemonHunt #JohnnyGaudreau #MatthewGaudreau #DeanEvason #SeanMonahan #KirillMarchenko #YegorChinakov #AdamFantilli #KentJohnson #BooneJenner #ZachWerenski #DaniilTarasov #ElvisMerzlikins #JetGreaves #SeanKuraly #JordanHarris #PatrikLaine #JustinDanforth #JamesvanRiemsdyk #MathieuOlivier

There was a bug in an OpenPGP library which finally gave us an excuse to tear encrypted email via PGP to shreds. Our special guest William Woodruff joined us to help explain the vuln and indulge our gnashing of teeth on why email was never meant to be encrypted and how other modern tools do the job much, much better.Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoL3LfIozJoTranscript: https://securitycryptographywhatever.com/2025/08/22/stop-using-encrypted-email-with-william-woodruffLinks:- William Woodruff: https://yossarian.net/- https://www.latacora.com/blog/2020/02/19/stop-using-encrypted/- https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4880- https://codeanlabs.com/blog/research/cve-2025-47934-spoofing-openpgp-js-signatures/- https://www.mailpile.is/blog/2014-10-07_Some_Thoughts_on_GnuPG.html- https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9580.html- https://www.tumblr.com/accidentallyquadratic- https://www.w3.org/TR/xmldsig-core/- https://support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/articles/360013790259-Using-Your-YubiKey-with-OpenPGP- https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9580.html#name-signature-packet-type-id-2- https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9580.html#name-key-derivation-function- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/MIME- https://delta.chat- https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/- https://phakeobj.netlify.app/posts/gigacage/- https://x.com/dakami-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----"Security Cryptography Whatever" is hosted by Deirdre Connolly (@durumcrustulum), Thomas Ptacek (@tqbf), and David Adrian (@davidcadrian)

This show has been flagged as Clean by the host. Standard UNIX password manager Password management is one of those computing problems you probably don't think about often, because modern computing usually has an obvious default solution built-in. A website prompts you for a password, and your browser auto-fills it in for you. Problem solved. However, not all browsers make it very easy to get to your passwords store, which makes it complex to migrate passwords to a new system without also migrating the rest of your user profile, or to share certain passwords between different users. There are several good open source options that offer alternatives to the obvious defaults, but as a user of Linux and UNIX, I love a minimal and stable solution when one is available. The pass command is a password manager that uses GPG encryption to keep your passwords safe, and it features several system integrations so you can use it seamlessly with your web browser of choice. Install pass The pass command is provided by the PasswordStore project. You can install it from your software repository or ports collection. For example, on Fedora: $ sudo dnf install pass On Debian and similar: $ sudo apt install pass Because the word pass is common, the name of the package may vary, depending on your distribution and operating system. For example, pass is available on Slackware and FreeBSD as password-store. The pass command is open source, so the source code is available at git.zx2c4.com/password-store. Create a GPG key First, you must have a GPG key to use for encryption. You can use a key you already have, or create a new one just for your password store. To create a GPG key, use the gpg command along with the --gen-key option (if you already have a key you want to use for your password store, you can skip this step): $ gpg --gen-key Answer the prompts to generate a key. When prompted to provide values for Real name, Email, and Comment, you must provide a response for each one, even though GPG allows you to leave them empty. In my experience, pass fails to initialize when one of those values is empty. For example, here are my responses for purposes of this article: Real name: Tux Email: tux@example.com Comment: My first key This information is combined, in a different order, to create a unique GPG ID. You can see your GPG key ID at any time: $ gpg --list-secret-keys | grep uid uid: Tux (My first key) tux@example.com Other than that, it's safe to accept the default and recommended options for each prompt. In the end, you have a GPG key to serve as the master key for your password store. You must keep this key safe. Back it up, keep a copy of your GPG keyring on a secure device. Should you lose this key, you lose access to your password store. Initialize a password store Next, you must initialize a password store on your system. When you do, you create a hidden directory where your passwords are stored, and you define which GPG key to use to encrypt passwords. To initialize a password store, use the pass init command along with your unique GPG key ID. Using my example key: $ pass init "Tux (My first key) " You can define more than one GPG key to use with your password store, should you intend to share passwords with another user or on another system using a different GPG key. Add and edit passwords To add a password to your password store, use the pass insert command followed by the URL (or any string) you want pass to keep. $ pass insert example.org Enter the password at the prompt, and then again to confirm. Most websites require more than just a password, and so pass can manage additional data, like username, email, and any other field. To add extra data to a password file, use pass edit followed by the URL or string you saved the password as: $ pass edit example.org The first line of a password file must be the password itself. After that first line, however, you can add any additional data you want, in the format of the field name followed by a colon and then the value. For example, to save tux as the value of the username field on a website: myFakePassword123 username: tux Some websites use an email address instead of a username: myFakePassword123 email: tux@example.com A password file can contain any data you want, so you can also add important notes or one-time recovery codes, and anything else you might find useful: myFake;_;Password123 email: tux@example.com recovery email: tux@example.org recovery code: 03a5-1992-ee12-238c note: This is your personal account, use company SSO at work List passwords To see all passwords in your password store: $ pass list Password Store ├── example.com ├── example.org You can also search your password store: $ pass find bandcamp Search Terms: bandcamp └── www.bandcamp.com Integrating your password store Your password store is perfectly usable from a terminal, but that's not the only way to use it. Using extensions, you can use pass as your web browser's password manager. There are several different applications that provide a bridge between pass and your browser. Most are listed in the CompatibleClients section of passwordstore.org. I use PassFF, which provides a Firefox extension. For browsers based on Chromium, you can use Browserpass with the Browserpass extension. In both cases, the browser extension requires a "host application", or a background bridge service to allow your browser to access the encrypted data in your password store. For PassFF, download the install script: $ wget https://codeberg.org/PassFF/passff-host/releases/download/latest/install_host_app.sh Review the script to confirm that it's just installing the host application, and then run it: $ bash ./install_host_app.sh firefox Python 3 executable located at /usr/bin/python3 Pass executable located at /usr/bin/pass Installing Firefox host config Native messaging host for Firefox has been installed to /home/tux/.mozilla/native-messaging-hosts. Install the browser extension, and then restart your browser. When you navigate to a URL with an file in your password store, a pass icon appears in the relevant fields. Click the icon to complete the form. Alternately, a pass icon appears in your browser's extension tray, providing a menu for direct interaction with many pass functions (such as copying data directly to your system clipboard, or auto-filling only a specific field, and so on.) Password management like UNIX The pass command is extensible, and there are some great add-ons for it. Here are some of my favourites: pass-otp: Add one-time password (OTP) functionality. pass-update: Add an easy workflow for updating passwords that you frequently change. pass-import: Import passwords from chrome, 1password, bitwarden, apple-keychain, gnome-keyring, keepass, lastpass, and many more (including pass itself, in the event you want to migrate a password store). The pass command and the password store system is a comfortably UNIX-like password management solution. It stores your passwords as text files in a format that doesn't even require you to have pass installed for access. As long as you have your GPG key, you can access and use the data in your password store. You own your data not only in the sense that it's local, but you have ownership of how you interact with it. You can sync your password stores between different machines using rsync or syncthing, or even backup the store to cloud storage. It's encrypted, and only you have the key.Provide feedback on this episode.

We hit a milestone today as this is our 50th Podcast Episode! A Big thank you to You, our listeners for your continued support!* Kali Linux Users Face Update Issues After Repository Signing Key Loss* CISOs Advised to Secure Personal Protections Against Scapegoating and Whistleblowing Risks* WhatsApp Launches Advanced Chat Privacy to Safeguard Sensitive Conversations* Samsung Confirms Security Vulnerability in Galaxy Devices That Could Expose Passwords* Former Disney Menu Manager Sentenced to 3 Years for Malicious System AttacksKali Linux Users Face Update Issues After Repository Signing Key Losshttps://www.kali.org/blog/new-kali-archive-signing-key/Offensive Security has announced that Kali Linux users will need to manually install a new repository signing key following the loss of the previous key. Without this update, users will experience system update failures.The company recently lost access to the old repository signing key (ED444FF07D8D0BF6) and had to create a new one (ED65462EC8D5E4C5), which has been signed by Kali Linux developers using signatures on the Ubuntu OpenPGP key server. OffSec emphasized that the key wasn't compromised, so the old one remains in the keyring.Users attempting to update their systems with the old key will encounter error messages stating "Missing key 827C8569F2518CC677FECA1AED65462EC8D5E4C5, which is needed to verify signature."To address this issue, the Kali Linux repository was frozen on February 18th. "In the coming day(s), pretty much every Kali system out there will fail to update," OffSec warned. "This is not only you, this is for everyone, and this is entirely our fault."To avoid update failures, users are advised to manually download and install the new repository signing key by running the command: sudo wget https://archive.kali.org/archive-keyring.gpg -O /usr/share/keyrings/kali-archive-keyring.gpgFor users unwilling to manually update the keyring, OffSec recommends reinstalling Kali using images that include the updated keyring.This isn't the first time Kali Linux users have faced such issues. A similar incident occurred in February 2018 when developers allowed the GPG key to expire, also requiring manual updates from users.CISOs Advised to Secure Personal Protections Against Scapegoating and Whistleblowing Riskshttps://path.rsaconference.com/flow/rsac/us25/FullAgenda/page/catalog/session/1727392520218001o5wvhttps://www.theregister.com/2025/04/28/ciso_rsa_whistleblowing/Chief Information Security Officers should negotiate personal liability insurance and golden parachute agreements when starting new roles to protect themselves in case of organizational conflicts, according to a panel of security experts at the RSA Conference.During a session on CISO whistleblowing, experienced security leaders shared cautionary tales and strategic advice for navigating the increasingly precarious position that has earned the role the nickname "chief scapegoat officer" in some organizations.Dd Budiharto, former CISO at Marathon Oil and Philips 66, revealed she was once fired for refusing to approve fraudulent invoices for work that wasn't delivered. "I'm proud to say I've been fired for not being willing to compromise my integrity," she stated. Despite losing her position, Budiharto chose not to pursue legal action against her former employer, a decision the panel unanimously supported as wise to avoid industry blacklisting.Andrew Wilder, CISO of veterinarian network Vetcor, emphasized that security executives should insist on two critical insurance policies before accepting new positions: directors and officers insurance (D&O) and personal legal liability insurance (PLLI). "You want to have personal legal liability insurance that covers you, not while you are an officer of an organization, but after you leave the organization as well," Wilder advised.Wilder referenced the case of former Uber CISO Joe Sullivan, noting that Sullivan's Uber-provided PLLI covered PR costs during his legal proceedings following a data breach cover-up. He also stressed the importance of negotiating severance packages to ensure whistleblowing decisions can be made on ethical rather than financial grounds.The panelists agreed that thorough documentation is essential for CISOs. Herman Brown, CIO for San Francisco's District Attorney's Office, recommended documenting all conversations and decisions. "Email is a great form of documentation that doesn't just stand for 'electronic mail,' it also stands for 'evidential mail,'" he noted.Security leaders were warned to be particularly careful about going to the press with complaints, which the panel suggested could result in even worse professional consequences than legal action. Similarly, Budiharto cautioned against trusting internal human resources departments or ethics panels, reminding attendees that HR ultimately works to protect the company, not individual employees.The panel underscored that proper governance, documentation, and clear communication with leadership about shared security responsibilities are essential practices for CISOs navigating the complex political and ethical challenges of their role.WhatsApp Launches Advanced Chat Privacy to Safeguard Sensitive Conversationshttps://blog.whatsapp.com/introducing-advanced-chat-privacyWhatsApp has rolled out a new "Advanced Chat Privacy" feature designed to provide users with enhanced protection for sensitive information shared in both private and group conversations.The new privacy option, accessible by tapping on a chat name, aims to prevent the unauthorized extraction of media and conversation content. "Today we're introducing our latest layer for privacy called 'Advanced Chat Privacy.' This new setting available in both chats and groups helps prevent others from taking content outside of WhatsApp for when you may want extra privacy," WhatsApp announced in its release.When enabled, the feature blocks other users from exporting chat histories, automatically downloading media to their devices, and using messages for AI features. According to WhatsApp, this ensures "everyone in the chat has greater confidence that no one can take what is being said outside the chat."The company noted that this initial version is now available to all users who have updated to the latest version of the app, with plans to strengthen the feature with additional protections in the future. However, WhatsApp acknowledges that certain vulnerabilities remain, such as the possibility of someone photographing a conversation screen even when screenshots are blocked.This latest privacy enhancement continues WhatsApp's long-standing commitment to user security, which began nearly seven years ago with the introduction of end-to-end encryption. The platform has steadily expanded its privacy capabilities since then, implementing end-to-end encrypted chat backups for iOS and Android in October 2021, followed by default disappearing messages for new chats in December of the same year.More recent security updates include chat locking with password or fingerprint protection, a Secret Code feature to hide locked chats, and location hiding during calls by routing connections through WhatsApp's servers. Since October 2024, the platform has also encrypted contact databases for privacy-preserving synchronization.Meta reported in early 2020 that WhatsApp serves more than two billion users across over 180 countries, making these privacy enhancements significant for a substantial portion of the global messaging community.Samsung Confirms Security Vulnerability in Galaxy Devices That Could Expose Passwordshttps://us.community.samsung.com/t5/Suggestions/Implement-Auto-Delete-Clipboard-History-to-Prevent-Sensitive/m-p/3200743Samsung has acknowledged a significant security flaw in its Galaxy devices that potentially exposes user passwords and other sensitive information stored in the clipboard.The issue was brought to light by a user identified as "OicitrapDraz" who posted concerns on Samsung's community forum on April 14. "I copy passwords from my password manager all the time," the user wrote. "How is it that Samsung's clipboard saves everything in plain text with no expiration? That's a huge security issue."In response, Samsung confirmed the vulnerability, stating: "We understand your concerns regarding clipboard behavior and how it may affect sensitive content. Clipboard history in One UI is managed at the system level." The company added that the user's "suggestion for more control over clipboard data—such as auto-clear or exclusion options—has been noted and shared with the appropriate team for consideration."One UI is Samsung's customized version of Android that runs on Galaxy smartphones and tablets. The security flaw means that sensitive information copied to the clipboard remains accessible in plain text without any automatic expiration or encryption.As a temporary solution, Samsung recommended that users "manually clear clipboard history when needed and use secure input methods for sensitive information." This stopgap measure puts the burden of security on users rather than providing a system-level fix.Security experts are particularly concerned now that this vulnerability has been publicly acknowledged, as it creates a potential "clipboard wormhole" that attackers could exploit to access passwords and other confidential information on affected devices. Users of Samsung Galaxy devices are advised to exercise extreme caution when copying sensitive information until a more comprehensive solution is implemented.Former Disney Menu Manager Sentenced to 3 Years for Malicious System Attackshttps://www.theregister.com/2025/04/29/former_disney_employee_jailed/A former Disney employee has received a 36-month prison sentence and been ordered to pay nearly $688,000 in fines after pleading guilty to sabotaging the entertainment giant's restaurant menu systems following his termination.Michael Scheuer, a Winter Garden, Florida resident who previously served as Disney's Menu Production Manager, was arrested in October and charged with violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA) and committing aggravated identity theft. He accepted a plea agreement in January, with sentencing finalized last week in federal court in Orlando.According to court documents, Scheuer's June 13, 2024 termination from Disney for misconduct was described as "contentious and not amicable." In July, he retaliated by making unauthorized access to Disney's Menu Creator application, hosted by a third-party vendor in Minnesota, and implementing various destructive changes.The attacks included replacing Disney's themed fonts with Wingdings, rendering menus unreadable, and altering menu images and background files to display as blank white pages. These changes propagated throughout the database, making the Menu Creator system inoperable for one to two weeks. The damage was so severe that Disney has since abandoned the application entirely.Particularly concerning were Scheuer's alterations to allergen information, falsely indicating certain menu items were safe for people with specific allergies—changes that "could have had fatal consequences depending on the type and severity of a customer's allergy," according to the plea agreement. He also modified wine region labels to reference locations of mass shootings, added swastika graphics, and altered QR codes to direct customers to a website promoting a boycott of Israel.Scheuer employed multiple methods to conduct his attacks, including using an administrative account via a Mullvad VPN, exploiting a URL-based contractor access mechanism, and targeting SFTP servers that stored menu files. He also conducted denial of service attacks that made over 100,000 incorrect login attempts, locking out fourteen Disney employees from their enterprise accounts.The FBI executed a search warrant at Scheuer's residence on September 23, 2024, at which point the attacks immediately ceased. Agents discovered virtual machines used for the attacks and a "doxxing file" containing personal information on five Disney employees and a family member of one worker.Following his prison term, Scheuer will undergo three years of supervised release with various conditions, including a prohibition on contacting Disney or any of the individual victims. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit edwinkwan.substack.com

In this 50th episode of B2B Sales Trends, host Harry Kendlbacher goes solo to reflect on one of the most urgent challenges in B2B sales today: declining win rates. Drawing on insights from the past 49 episodes—and 25 years of sales leadership—Harry breaks down the five steps of GPG's proven Win Rates framework. Learn why 60% of B2B deals are lost to “no decision,” and how sales teams can shift from surface-level conversations to outcome-focused strategies that actually move the needle. What You'll Learn in This Episode: - How to qualify early for impact—not just fit - Why stakeholder mapping is critical in complex deals - How key agreements can replace guesswork with alignment - What it takes to create urgency through Cost of Inaction - How to close without compromising margins If you're a sales leader looking to win more deals faster—and with higher profitability—this solo episode is packed with practical insights to help you get there.

Let's go on a holiday! GPG gives Poncho 5 movie holiday destinations, with a twist... they all need to be bad locations!If you have something you'd like us to discuss then please:Get in contact with the us via email at themovietreepod@gmail.com or via Facebook Messenger.Feel free to write in with suggestions for movies or topics you'd like to see us cover in future episodes.Also FEEL FREE TO WRITE IN WITH SUGGESTIONS FOR MOVIES YOU'D LIKE TO SEE US COVER IN FUTURE EPISODES!!We mean it. Please write in. We'll send you some free stuff.Check out our weekly videos on YouTube, TikTok and Facebook, most of them are absolute deadset bangers.If you know someone who might like this episode, or the last episode, or even any of the episodes then please hit Share on your podcast app of choice and let them know about all of the goodness that is a Movie Tree episode.As is the cliche - please like, subscribe, comment and review! Would be lovely to build on our 4 reviews we've had so far.Adios bitches. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kate Flannery is an actor, singer, and writer best known for her nine seasons as Meredith on NBC's hit show “The Office.” She was also a fan favorite on ABC's “Dancing With the Stars,” and wowed viewers as Starfish on The Masked Singer.  She's also co-starred recently with Rita Moreno in The Prank, currently streaming on Apple TV. Other credits include appearances on Young Sheldon, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and New Girl, plus indie films like the hit Golden Arm (100% Rotten Tomatoes). She's also a proud alumni member of Chicago's Second City.   We covered the following topics: Second City & Improv Favourite Memories from Second City Landing the Role of Meredith on ‘The Office' “Do Nothing!” – Auditioning for ‘The Office' Creating Meredith Palmer What Made ‘The Office' Special Working With Steve Carell Working With Rainn Wilson Working With John Krasinski Favourite Memories of ‘The Office' Doing My Own Stunts Guest Staring on Other Shows Working on Independent Films Dancing With The Stars Working With Rita Moreno  What I'm Most Proud Of Following Your Dreams Is Sacred My Three Dinner Guests Every week, the RUN GPG Podcast aims to provide inspirational stories from people who made a mark in entrepreneurship, entertainment, personal development, and the real estate industry. It is produced by the GREATER PROPERTY GROUP to help the audience grow and scale their business and their life. Know more about GREATER PROPERTY GROUP and the RUN GPG Podcast by going to www.rungpg.com or by getting in touch with us here: info@greaterpropertygroup.com. Contact Kate Flannery: Instagram: instagram.com/therealkateflannery Facebook: facebook.com/therealKateFlannery Contact David Morrell: TikTok: tiktok.com/@morrellionaire Instagram: instagram.com/thegreaterdavid/ Twitter: twitter.com/fearofdavid Subscribe & Review The RUN GPG Podcast Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the RUN GPG Podcast! Please leave us a review on iTunes. This will help us continue delivering beneficial content for you and our listeners each week!

Naturgy has secured $2.3 billion in financing to boost its Australian portfolio, MARA Holdings will acquire a wind farm in Texas, and TotalEnergies which will acquire VSB Group for €2 billion. Sign up now for Uptime Tech News, our weekly email update on all things wind technology. This episode is sponsored by Weather Guard Lightning Tech. Learn more about Weather Guard's StrikeTape Wind Turbine LPS retrofit. Follow the show on Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Linkedin and visit Weather Guard on the web. And subscribe to Rosemary Barnes' YouTube channel here. Have a question we can answer on the show? Email us! Pardalote Consulting - https://www.pardaloteconsulting.comWeather Guard Lightning Tech - www.weatherguardwind.comIntelstor - https://www.intelstor.comJoin us at The Wind Energy O&M Australia Conference - https://www.windaustralia.com Welcome to Uptime News Flash. Industry news, lightning fast. Your hosts, Allen Hall, Joel Saxum, and Phil Totaro, discuss the latest deals, mergers, and alliances that will shape the future of wind power. News Flash is brought to you by Intel Store. For market intelligence that generates revenue, visit www.intelstor.com. Allen Hall: Big news this week, Naturgy has secured 2. 3 billion Australian dollars in financing to boost its Australian renewable portfolio. The financing operation has been formalized with 11 international banks. Global Power Generation, which is a subsidiary of Naturgy. Closes 2024 with a portfolio of one gigawatts of projects in operation. Now, Phil, a lot of things are happening on Australia on their noble energy front, and particularly in wind at the moment. Philip Totaro: This is another one. Well, and this is an important one for GPG because they're trying to build three projects right now two wind farms, the Ryan Corner and the Crookwell Three projects, and then also a, a hybrid project called the Cunderdin. Hybrid plant that's gonna include some solar PV so they're immediately going to be deploying this 2. 3 billion Australian dollars and, and put it to good use, building a significant amount of, of new capacity. So, good on them. Allen Hall: For you Bitcoin lovers, Marathon Digital Holdings will acquire a wind farm in Hansford County, Texas with 240 megawatts of interconnection capacity. Now the site includes 114 megawatts of operational wind currently and Marathon Digital Holdings will develop a behind the meter data center power Buy wind energy. And this allows them to do Bitcoin mining, Phil. Philip Totaro: Yeah, this is actually the first of its kind in terms of this type of a deal structure where a, a Bitcoin miner specifically, I mean, there's other companies like Amazon that have bought into wind farms or, or co developed and built wind farms. And agreed to take the power and feed it into their, their data centers but this is the first time, as you just mentioned, that they're going to do a behind the meter data center where they can avoid So yeah. And agreed. Agreed. A lot of the issues you get in, in ERCOT and in Texas in general, where you've got, periods of negative pricing or what have you, where you've got to dump a lot of power. They're at least taking the power that they would otherwise dump and putting it into their, their Bitcoin mining operations, which, is, is increasingly power intensive. I, I remember setting up a small Bitcoin mining operation on my laptop about ten years ago. I ended up getting about 80 bucks. So that's, that's the best I could do. These guys are going to be doing, a lot more with a lot more power. Joel Saxum: But I think you'll see a lot more of this happening in specifically, like Phil said, in the Texas, in the ERCOT market down here, because it's a triage market. When you look at it, you can see negative prices, positive price. You have a bad winter storm or some things come offline. All of a sudden power is 3, hour in a wholesale market. Like you see a lot of changes.

GPG attempts the impossible and recasts The Fellowship Of The Ring.If you have something you'd like us to discuss then please:Get in contact with the us via email at themovietreepod@gmail.com or via Facebook Messenger.Feel free to write in with suggestions for movies or topics you'd like to see us cover in future episodes.Also FEEL FREE TO WRITE IN WITH SUGGESTIONS FOR MOVIES YOU'D LIKE TO SEE US COVER IN FUTURE EPISODES!!We mean it. Please write in. We'll send you some free stuff.Check out our weekly videos on YouTube, TikTok and Facebook, most of them are absolute deadset bangers.If you know someone who might like this episode, or the last episode, or even any of the episodes then please hit Share on your podcast app of choice and let them know about all of the goodness that is a Movie Tree episode.As is the cliche - please like, subscribe, comment and review! Would be lovely to build on our 4 reviews we've had so far.Adios bitches. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Why do efforts to build effective states and deliver services to citizens so often go wrong? And how can understanding the inside of the political mind empower us to achieve better results? In this podcast, Nic Cheeseman talks to Greg Power about his important new book, based on the experience of working with hundreds of politicians in more than sixty countries. In Inside the Political Mind: The Human Side of Politics and How It Shapes Development (Oxford UP, 2024), Greg explains why individual politicians and norms of behaviour and more powerful than formal rules and institutions, and why practical challenges so often encourage citizens and politicians to go around the state rather than working through it. This leads to a radical new way of thinking about state-building and development that works from the bottom-up on the basis of what leaders and their people want, rather than what the international community assumes they need. Guest: Greg Power is the founder and Board Chair of Global Partners Governance Practice (GPG), a social purpose company that provides support to politicians, ministers and officials to strengthen their systems of governance. He is well known for having worked in a remarkable variety of countries including many – such as Iraq – during periods in which political systems and state institutions were under the most intense strain. He was previously a special adviser to British ministers Rt Hon Robin Cook MP and Rt Hon Peter Hain MP, working on strategies for parliamentary reform, constitutional change and the wider democratic agenda in conjunction with the Prime Minister's Strategy Unit and Downing Street policy staff, and was awarded an OBE for services to parliamentary democracy and political reform in the January 2023 New Year's Honours. Presenter: Nic Cheeseman is the Professor of Democracy and International Development at the University of Birmingham and Founding Director of CEDAR. The People, Power, Politics podcast brings you the latest insights into the factors that are shaping and re-shaping our political world. It is brought to you by the Centre for Elections, Democracy, Accountability and Representation (CEDAR) based at the University of Birmingham, United Kingdom. Join us to better understand the factors that promote and undermine democratic government around the world and follow us on Twitter at @CEDAR_Bham! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/political-science

Why do efforts to build effective states and deliver services to citizens so often go wrong? And how can understanding the inside of the political mind empower us to achieve better results? In this podcast, Nic Cheeseman talks to Greg Power about his important new book, based on the experience of working with hundreds of politicians in more than sixty countries. In Inside the Political Mind: The Human Side of Politics and How It Shapes Development (Oxford UP, 2024), Greg explains why individual politicians and norms of behaviour and more powerful than formal rules and institutions, and why practical challenges so often encourage citizens and politicians to go around the state rather than working through it. This leads to a radical new way of thinking about state-building and development that works from the bottom-up on the basis of what leaders and their people want, rather than what the international community assumes they need. Guest: Greg Power is the founder and Board Chair of Global Partners Governance Practice (GPG), a social purpose company that provides support to politicians, ministers and officials to strengthen their systems of governance. He is well known for having worked in a remarkable variety of countries including many – such as Iraq – during periods in which political systems and state institutions were under the most intense strain. He was previously a special adviser to British ministers Rt Hon Robin Cook MP and Rt Hon Peter Hain MP, working on strategies for parliamentary reform, constitutional change and the wider democratic agenda in conjunction with the Prime Minister's Strategy Unit and Downing Street policy staff, and was awarded an OBE for services to parliamentary democracy and political reform in the January 2023 New Year's Honours. Presenter: Nic Cheeseman is the Professor of Democracy and International Development at the University of Birmingham and Founding Director of CEDAR. The People, Power, Politics podcast brings you the latest insights into the factors that are shaping and re-shaping our political world. It is brought to you by the Centre for Elections, Democracy, Accountability and Representation (CEDAR) based at the University of Birmingham, United Kingdom. Join us to better understand the factors that promote and undermine democratic government around the world and follow us on Twitter at @CEDAR_Bham! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/economics

From Cloud Chaos to FreeBSD Efficiency, August 2024 Foundation Update, Email encryption at rest on OpenBSD using dovecot and GPG, Workarounds are often forever (unless you work to make them otherwise), Remote Desktop using RDP and VNC, Iconography of the X Window System: The Boot Stipple, Plan 9 is a Uniquely Complete Operating System, and more NOTES This episode of BSDNow is brought to you by Tarsnap (https://www.tarsnap.com/bsdnow) and the BSDNow Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/bsdnow) Headlines From Cloud Chaos to FreeBSD Efficiency (https://it-notes.dragas.net/2024/07/04/from-cloud-chaos-to-freebsd-efficiency/) August 2024 Foundation Update (https://freebsdfoundation.org/news-and-events/newsletter/august-2024-foundation-update/) News Roundup Emails encryption at rest on OpenBSD using dovecot and GPG (https://dataswamp.org/~solene/2024-08-14-automatic-emails-gpg-encryption-at-rest.html) Workarounds are often forever (unless you work to make them otherwise) (https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/WorkaroundsAreForeverByDefault) Remote Desktop using RDP and VNC (https://www.tumfatig.net/2024/remote-desktop-using-rdp-and-vnc/) Iconography of the X Window System: The Boot Stipple (https://matttproud.com/blog/posts/x-window-system-boot-stipple.html) Plan 9 is a Uniquely Complete Operating System (https://posixcafe.org/blogs/2024/07/27/0/) Tarsnap This weeks episode of BSDNow was sponsored by our friends at Tarsnap, the only secure online backup you can trust your data to. Even paranoids need backups. Feedback/Questions Send questions, comments, show ideas/topics, or stories you want mentioned on the show to feedback@bsdnow.tv (mailto:feedback@bsdnow.tv) Join us and other BSD Fans in our BSD Now Telegram channel (https://t.me/bsdnow)

Como firmar, cifrar y descifrar archivos en #Linux y #Android con GPG. Como subir paquetes a tu PPA con #GitHub Actions y mucho mas Estos días he continuado con el tema de las GitHub Actions que te conté en el anterior podcast. La cuestión es que quería automatizar determinados procesos, para mejorar sensiblemente mi flujo de trabajo con las aplicaciones que durante estos años he venido desarrollando, y para eso he tenido que recurrir a GPG, firmas, cifrados y Android. Esto es uno de los problemas que con mas frecuencia me encuentro. Aquellas operativas que no realizo a menudo. ¿Donde encontrar esa información?. ¿Como se hacía?. ¿Que es lo que tengo que hacer?. En fin, un montón de preguntas que me hago y que me llevan a perder un montón de tiempo. Así que de nuevo, esto me lleva a publicar un nuevo artículo en este caso en el blog, para que no se me olvide y para que en el futuro, si me vuelve a pasar, tenga una referencia rápida y sencilla. Y por su puesto para que tu también lo puedas utilizar. Pero no solo esto, de paso, también he cambiado de cliente de correo electrónico en Android, que me ha permitido mejorar sensiblemente mi flujo de trabajo. Pero bueno, no te adelanto mas, escucha el podcast y me cuentas. Más información, enlaces y notas en https://atareao.es/podcast/626

Please follow Arthur on Twitter and check out his blog! Thank you for just summarizing my point in like 1% of the words-Aaron, to Arthur, circa 34:45Summary(Written by Claude Opus aka Clong)* Aaron and Arthur introduce themselves and discuss their motivations for starting the podcast. Arthur jokingly suggests they should "solve gender discourse".* They discuss the benefits and drawbacks of having a public online persona and sharing opinions on Twitter. Arthur explains how his views on engaging online have evolved over time.* Aaron reflects on whether it's good judgment to sometimes tweet things that end up being controversial. They discuss navigating professional considerations when expressing views online.* Arthur questions Aaron's views on cause prioritization in effective altruism (EA). Aaron believes AI is one of the most important causes, while Arthur is more uncertain and pluralistic in his moral philosophy.* They debate whether standard EA global poverty interventions are likely to be the most effective ways to help people from a near-termist perspective. Aaron is skeptical, while Arthur defends GiveWell's recommendations.* Aaron makes the case that even from a near-termist view focused only on currently living humans, preparing for the impacts of AI could be highly impactful, for instance by advocating for a global UBI. Arthur pushes back, arguing that AI is more likely to increase worker productivity than displace labor.* Arthur expresses skepticism of long-termism in EA, though not due to philosophical disagreement with the basic premises. Aaron suggests this is a well-trodden debate not worth rehashing.* They discuss whether old philosophical texts have value or if progress means newer works are strictly better. Arthur mounts a spirited defense of engaging with the history of ideas and reading primary sources to truly grasp nuanced concepts. Aaron contends that intellectual history is valuable but reading primary texts is an inefficient way to learn for all but specialists.* Arthur and Aaron discover a shared passion for rock climbing, swapping stories of how they got into the sport as teenagers. While Aaron focused on indoor gym climbing and competitions, Arthur was drawn to adventurous outdoor trad climbing. They reflect on the mental challenge of rationally managing fear while climbing.* Discussing the role of innate talent vs training, Aaron shares how climbing made him viscerally realize the limits of hard work in overcoming genetic constraints. He and Arthur commiserate about the toxic incentives for competitive climbers to be extremely lean, while acknowledging the objective physics behind it.* They bond over falling out of climbing as priorities shifted in college and lament the difficulty of getting back into it after long breaks. Arthur encourages Aaron to let go of comparisons to his past performance and enjoy the rapid progress of starting over.TranscriptVery imperfect - apologies for the errors.AARONHello, pigeon hour listeners. This is Aaron, as it always is with Arthur Wright of Washington, the broader Washington, DC metro area. Oh, also, we're recording in person, which is very exciting for the second time. I really hope I didn't screw up anything with the audio. Also, we're both being really awkward at the start for some reason, because I haven't gotten into conversation mode yet. So, Arthur, what do you want? Is there anything you want?ARTHURYeah. So Aaron and I have been circling around the idea of recording a podcast for a long time. So there have been periods of time in the past where I've sat down and been like, oh, what would I talk to Aaron about on a podcast? Those now elude me because that was so long ago, and we spontaneously decided to record today. But, yeah, for the. Maybe a small number of people listening to this who I do not personally already know. I am Arthur and currently am doing a master's degree in economics, though I still know nothing about economics, despite being two months from completion, at least how I feel. And I also do, like, housing policy research, but I think have, I don't know, random, eclectic interests in various EA related topics. And, yeah, I don't. I feel like my soft goal for this podcast was to, like, somehow get Aaron cancelled.AARONI'm in the process.ARTHURWe should solve gender discourse.AARONOh, yeah. Is it worth, like, discussing? No, honestly, it's just very online. It's, like, not like there's, like, better, more interesting things.ARTHURI agree. There are more. I was sort of joking. There are more interesting things. Although I do think, like, the general topic that you talked to max a little bit about a while ago, if I remember correctly, of, like, kind of. I don't know to what degree. Like, one's online Persona or, like, being sort of active in public, sharing your opinions is, like, you know, positive or negative for your general.AARONYeah. What do you think?ARTHURYeah, I don't really.AARONWell, your. Your name is on Twitter, and you're like.ARTHURYeah. You're.AARONYou're not, like, an alt.ARTHURYeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I. So, like, I first got on Twitter as an alt account in, like, 2020. I feel like it was during my, like, second to last semester of college. Like, the vaccine didn't exist yet. Things were still very, like, hunkered down in terms of COVID And I feel like I was just, like, out of that isolation. I was like, oh, I'll see what people are talking about on the Internet. And I think a lot of the, like, sort of more kind of topical political culture war, whatever kind of stuff, like, always came back to Twitter, so I was like, okay, I should see what's going on on this Twitter platform. That seems to be where all of the chattering classes are hanging out. And then it just, like, made my life so much worse.AARONWait, why?ARTHURWell, I think part of it was that I just, like, I made this anonymous account because I was like, oh, I don't want to, like, I don't want to, like, have any reservations about, like, you know, who I follow or what I say. I just want to, like, see what's going on and not worry about any kind of, like, personal, like, ramifications. And I think that ended up being a terrible decision because then I just, like, let myself get dragged into, like, the most ultimately, like, banal and unimportant, like, sort of, like, culture war shit as just, like, an observer, like, a frustrated observer. And it was just a huge waste of time. I didn't follow anyone interesting or, like, have any interesting conversations. And then I, like, deleted my Twitter. And then it was in my second semester of my current grad program. We had Caleb Watney from the Institute for Progress come to speak to our fellowship because he was an alumni of the same fellowship. And I was a huge fan of the whole progress studies orientation. And I liked what their think tank was doing as, I don't know, a very different approach to being a policy think tank, I think, than a lot of places. And one of the things that he said for, like, people who are thinking about careers in, like, policy and I think sort of applies to, like, more ea sort of stuff as well, was like, that. Developing a platform on Twitter was, like, opened a lot of doors for him in terms of, like, getting to know people in the policy world. Like, they had already seen his stuff on Twitter, and I got a little bit, like, more open to the idea that there could be something constructive that could come from, like, engaging with one's opinions online. So I was like, okay, fuck it. I'll start a Twitter, and this time, like, I won't be a coward. I won't get dragged into all the worst topics. I'll just, like, put my real name on there and, like, say things that I think. And I don't actually do a lot of that, to be honest.AARONI've, like, thought about gotta ramp it.ARTHUROff doing more of that. But, like, you know, I think when it's not eating too much time into my life in terms of, like, actual deadlines and obligations that I have to meet, it's like, now I've tried to cultivate a, like, more interesting community online where people are actually talking about things that I think matter.AARONNice. Same. Yeah, I concur. Or, like, maybe this is, like, we shouldn't just talk about me, but I'm actually, like, legit curious. Like, do you think I'm an idiot or, like, cuz, like, hmm. I. So this is getting back to the, like, the current, like, salient controversy, which is, like, really just dumb. Not, I mean, controversy for me because, like, not, not like an actual, like, event in the world, but, like, I get so, like, I think it's, like, definitely a trade off where, like, yeah, there's, like, definitely things that, like, I would say if I, like, had an alt. Also, for some reason, I, like, really just don't like the, um, like, the idea of just, like, having different, I don't know, having, like, different, like, selves. Not in, like, a. And not in, like, any, like, sort of actual, like, philosophical way, but, like, uh, yeah, like, like, the idea of, like, having an online Persona or whatever, I mean, obviously it's gonna be different, but, like, in. Only in the same way that, like, um, you know, like, like, you're, like, in some sense, like, different people to the people. Like, you're, you know, really close friend and, like, a not so close friend, but, like, sort of a different of degree. Like, difference of, like, degree, not kind. And so, like, for some reason, like, I just, like, really don't like the idea of, like, I don't know, having, like, a professional self or whatever. Like, I just. Yeah. And you could, like, hmm. I don't know. Do you think I'm an idiot for, like, sometimes tweeting, like, things that, like, evidently, like, are controversial, even if they, like, they're not at all intent or, like, I didn't even, you know, plan, like, plan on them being.ARTHURYeah, I think it's, like, sort of similar to the, like, decoupling conversation we had the other night, which is, like, I totally am sympathetic to your sense of, like, oh, it's just nice to just, like, be a person and not have to, like, as consciously think about, like, dividing yourself into these different buckets of, like, what sort of, you know, Persona you want to, like, present to different audiences. So, like, I think there's something to that. And I, in some ways, I have a similar intuition when it comes to, like, I try to set a relatively strong principle for myself to not lie. And, like, it's not that I'm, like, a Kantian, but I just, like, I think, like, just as a practical matter, the problem with lying for me at least, is then, like, you have to keep these sorts of two books, sets of books in your head of, like, oh, what did I tell to whom? And, like, how do I now say new things that are, like, consistent with the information that I've already, like, you know, falsely or not, like, divulge to this person. Right. And I think, in a similar way, there's something appealing about just, like, being fully honest and open, like, on the Internet with your real name and that you don't have to, like, I don't know, jump through all of those hoops in your mind before, like, deciding whether or not to say something. But at the same time, to the, like, conversation we had the other night about decoupling and stuff, I think. I think there's, like, it is an unfortunate reality that, like, you will be judged and, like, perhaps unfairly on the things that you say on the Internet, like, in a professional sphere. And, like, I don't know, at some level, you can't just, like, wish your.AARONWay out of it. Yeah, no, no, that's, like, a. Okay, so I. This is actually, like, I, like, totally agree. I think, like, one thing is just. I, like, really, honestly, like, don't know how, like, empirically, like, what is the actual relationship between saying, like, say, you get, like, I don't know, like, ten, like, quote tweets, people who are, like, misunderstanding your point, like, and, like, I don't know, say, like, 30 comments or whatever replies or whatever. And, like, it is, like, not at all clear to me, like, what that corresponds to in the real world. And, like, I think I may have erred too much in the direction of, like, oh, that's, like, no evidence at all because, sorry, we should really talk about non twitter stuff. But, like, this is actually, like, on my mind. And this is something like, I didn't. Like, I thought about tweeting, like, but didn't, which is that, like, oh, yeah, I had, like, the building underground tweet, which, like, I think that's a good example. Like, anybody who's, like, reasonably charitable can, like, tell that. It's, like, it was, like, I don't know, it was, like, a reasonable question. Like, and we've mentioned this before, like, this is, like, I don't want to just, like, yeah, it's, like, sort of been beaten to death or whatever, but, like, I feel like maybe, like, I came away from that thinking that, like, okay, if people are mad at you on the Internet, that is, like, no evidence whatsoever about, like, how it, like, how a reasonable person will judge you and or, like, what will happen, like. Like, in real life and, like, yeah, maybe I, like, went too hard in that direction or something.ARTHURYeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, to, like, agree, maybe move on to non twitter, but, yeah, like, to close this loop. I think that, like, I agree that any. Any one instance of individuals being mad at you online, like, it's very easy to, like, over react or extrapolate from that. That, like, oh, people in the real world are gonna, like, judge me negatively because of this. Right. I think in any isolated instance, that's true, but I just. I also get the sense that in the broad world of sort of, like, think tanks and nonprofits and things where, like, your position would. Especially if you're, like, in a research position, like, to some degree, like, representative the opinions of an employer. Right. That there's a kind of, like, character judgment that goes into someone's overall Persona. So, like, the fact that you have, like, one controversial tweet where people are saying, like, oh, you think, you know, like, poor people don't deserve natural light or something like that. Like, that. Any one instance, like, might not matter very much, but if you, like, strongly cultivate a Persona online of, like, being a bit of a loose cannon and, like, oh, I'm gonna say, like, whatever controversial thing comes to mind, I can see any organization that has, like, communicating to a broader audience is, like, an important part of their mission. Like, being hesitant to, like, take a chance on a young person who, like, is prone to, you know, getting into those kinds of controversies on, like, a regular basis.AARONYeah, yeah. And actually, like, maybe this is, like, sort of meta, but, like, I think that is totally correct. Like, you should 100% up. Like, up if you're an employer listening to this. And, like, I don't know. Who knows? There's, like, a non zero chance that, like, I don't know, maybe, like, not low. Lower than, like, 0.1% or something like that. That will be the case. And, like, no, it is totally true that, like, my. I have, like, subpart. Wait, you better. I'm gonna, like. No, no quoting out of context here, please. Or, like, not know, like, clipping the quote out of, like, so it becomes out of context. But, like, it is, like, I have definitely poor judgment about how things will be, um, like, taken, uh, by the people of the Internet, people of the world. I, like, legitimately, I think I'm below not. Probably not first percentile, probably below 50th percentile, at least among broadly western educated, liberal ish people. And so, yes, it's hiring me for head of communication. I mean, there's a reason I'm not. I wouldn't say that I'm not applying to be a communications person anywhere, but I don't know, it's not crazy that I would. If you want to. Yeah, you should. Like, it is, like, correct information. Like, I'm not trying to trick anybody here. Well, okay. Is there anything else that's on your mind? Like, I don't know, salient or, like.ARTHURThat'S what I should have done before I came over here, but nothing, like, on the top of my head, but I feel like there's, I don't know, there's all kinds of, well, like, there's something you've, like, wandered into.AARONYeah, like, I think you have bad cause prioritization takes.ARTHUROh, right.AARONLike, maybe we shouldn't just, like, have the AI versus, like, I don't know, it's like my, like, the AI is a big deal. Tribe is like, yeah, not only winning, but, like, pretty obviously and for obvious reasons. So, like, I don't know, I don't, like, really need to have, like, the, you know, the 70th, like, debate ever about, like, oh, it's like, AI.ARTHURWait, sorry. You mean they're winning for obvious reasons insofar as, like, the victories are apparent or that you think, like, the actual arguments leading to them.AARONOh, yeah.ARTHURBecoming more prominent are obvious.AARONYeah. Setting aside the. In the abstract, what, non, like, empirical or empirical, but, like, only using data, like, pre chat, GPT release, like, setting aside that whole cluster of arguments, there is the fact that, like, I don't know, it seems very, very apparent to, like, the chattering classes of people who care about this stuff that, like, AI is, like, both the overt has expanded tremendously, like, also moved. It seems like the AI is as big of a deal, like, as the Internet is, like, the lower bound and, like, much, much more important than that. Is, like, the upper bound. And so, like, and, like, that's a. That's like, a significant shift, I guess. One thing is just, like, there have a lot been a lot of conversations, like, in EA spaces, and, like, I'm just, like, thinking about the AdK podcast. I feel like I've heard it multiple times, but maybe I'm making that up where it's like, one person is, like, makes the case for, like, I don't know, taking AI or, like, thinking that, like, yeah, AI broadly is, like, the most important altruistic area, right? And then the other person says no, and then they do the same, like, five discussion points back and forth.ARTHURYeah.AARONSo, like, I don't think we should do that.ARTHURSure.AARONThat was a really long winded way of saying that.ARTHURI see. So, so, but, but you're, you're trying to emphasize that, like, the kind of, like, reality of the pace of, you know, improvement in artificial intelligence and the fact that it is going to be, like, an incredibly important technology. Like you said, the lower bound being, like, as important as the Internet, I think, of the upper bound is like, I don't know, something like electricity provided we're not gonna, you know, all die or something. Or maybe more transformational extra. But. But I guess we're trying to say is that, like, the Overton window has, like, shifted so much that, like, everyone kind of agrees this is a really transformative technology. And, like, you know, therefore.AARONWell, I guess I. Sorry, wait, I interrupted. I'm an interrupting person. I'm sorry.ARTHURThat's good. It's a natural part of conversation, so I don't feel bad.AARONContinue.ARTHUROh, oh, no, no. I just. I like, like, yeah, maybe we don't need to rehash the, like, whether or not AI is important, but I'm curious, like, what you think. Yeah, like, what do you think is sort of wrong about my.AARONNo, I was just about to ask that, like, when I interrupted you. I actually don't fully know what you believe. I know we, like, go into different, like, vibe camps or, like, there's another. There's like, a proper noun, vibe camp. This is like a lowercase letters.ARTHURVibe count, vibe sphere.AARONYeah, yeah. And, like. But, like, I don't know, do you have, like, a thesis?ARTHURYeah, see, okay. I don't. I think in many ways, like, maybe just to lay out, like, I think my lack of a thesis is probably the biggest distinction between the two of us when it comes to these kind of cause prioritization things.AARONRight.ARTHURBecause, like, I think I, like, over the years have, as I became more interested in the effect of altruism, have sort of changed my views in many different directions and iterations in terms of, like, my basic moral philosophy and, like, what I think the role of EA is. And I think over time, like, I've generally just become, like, more kind of pluralistic. I know it's a bit of a hand wavy word, but, like, I think I have sufficient uncertainty about, like, my basic moral framework towards the world that, like, this is just a guess. Maybe we'll discover this through conversation. But I think, like, perhaps the biggest disagreement between you and I that, like, leads us in different directions is just that I am, like, much more willing to do some kind of, like, worldview diversification sort of move where like, just, you know, going from, like, a set of assumptions, you know, something like hedonistic utilitarianism and, like, viewing ea as, like, how can I as an individual make the greatest, like, marginal contribution to, like, maximizing this global hedonistic welfare function, right. I think, like, I hold that entire project with a little bit of, like, distance and a little bit of uncertainty. So, like, even if, you know, like, granting the assumptions of that project that spits out, like, okay, AI and animals are, like, the only things that we should care about. I think, like, I'm willing to, like, grant that that might follow from those premises. But I think, like, I hold the premise itself about, like, what the kind of EA project is or what I, as an individual who's, like, interested in these ideas should do with my career at, like, sufficient, you know, distance that I'm, like, willing to kind of, like, entertain other sets of assumptions about, like, what is valuable. And, like, therefore, I'm just, like, far less certain in committing to any particular cause area. I think before, before we get deeper into the weeds about this, just to put like, a sharper point on the, like, more meta point that I'm trying to make is that, like, so I think, like, I don't know if there was this ADK episode from like, a long time ago about solutions to the Fermi paradox. And I know this sounds unrelated, but I'm gonna try.AARONNo, no, that's cool.ARTHURAnd one of the things he talked about was like, you know, basically, like, the Fermi paradox isn't actually a paradox if you, like, understand the ways that, like, essentially, like, when you have uncertainty in, like, a bunch of different point estimates, those uncertainties, like, when combined, should yield like, a probability distribution rather than just like, the headline is often, like, the point estimate of, like, oh, we should expect there to be like, so many aliens, right? But it's like when you have uncertainties on, like, each decision, you know, like, each assumption that you're making in all of the parameters of the equation, right? Like, so I think, like, I guess to apply that a little bit to kind of my, like, sort of moral philosophy is, like, I think, like, the reason why I just am very kind of, like, waffly on my cost prioritization and I'm, like, open to many different things is just that, like, I start from the basic assumption that, like, the, you know, the grounding principle of the EA project, which is like, we should try to do good in the world and we should try to do, like, you know, good in the world in ways that are, like, effective and actually, like, you know, have the consequences that we, we want. Right. That, like, I am very bought into that, like, broad assumption, but I think, like, I have sufficient uncertainty at, like, every chain of reasoning from, like, what does good mean? Like, what, you know, what is the role of, like, me as an individual? Like, what is my comparative advantage? What does it mean to be cause neutral, like, at all of these points of decision? I feel like I just have, like, sufficiently high level of uncertainty that, like, when you get to the end of that chain of reasoning and you arrive at some answer of, like, what you ought to do. Like, I think I hold it sort of very lightly, and I think I have, like, very low credence on any, like, one, you know, conclusion from that chain of research.AARONYeah, yeah. That's what cut you off too much. But, like, but, like, I think there's, like, a very, like, paradigmatic conversation which is like, oh, like, should we be pluralistic? And it's happened seven bazillion times. And so, like, I know I want to claim something different. So. Sorry. I guess there's two separate claims. One is like. And you can tell if, like, I sort of. I was sort of assuming, like, you would disagree with this, but I'm not sure is, um. Yeah, like, even if you just, like, purely restrict, um, you're, like, philosophizing or, like, restrict your ethics just to, like, um, humans who are alive right now and, like, like, basically, like, have the worldview that, like, implies malaria nets. Yeah, um, I, like, think it's, like, very unlikely that, like, actually, like, the best guess intervention right now, like, is the set of, like, standard yay interventions or whatever. And, like, another, like, very related, but, like, some, I guess, distinct claim is, like, I don't know exactly. I don't. Yeah, I really don't know at all what this would look like. But, like, it seems very plausible to me that even under that worldview, so not a long term is worldview at all, like, probably doing something related to, like, artificial intelligence. Like, is, like, checks out under. Yeah, under, like, the most, like, norm, like, normal person version, like, restricted version of EA. And, like, I don't know.ARTHURI think I. Yeah, so I think I am inclined to agree with the first part and disagree with the second part. And that's why I want you to spell this out for me, because I. I actually am sympathetic to the idea that, like, under sort of near termist restricting our class of individuals that we want to help to human beings, like, who are alive today. Right. Under that set of assumptions, I similarly think that there's, like, relatively low likelihood that, like, the standard list of sort of, like, give well, interventions are the best. Right.AARONWell, not.ARTHUROr.AARONYeah, yeah, or, like, I'm telling you, like, yeah, if you think. Sorry. Um, yeah, my claim was, like, stronger than, like, that. That. Or, like, what one would interpret that as, like, if you just, like, take it like, super literally. So, like, I think that, like, um, not only expose, like, they're not even our, like, real best guesses, like, like, an actual effort would, like, yield other best guesses. Not only like, oh, yeah. Like, this is our, like, this is like a minority, but like, a plurality of the distribution, if that makes sense.ARTHUROkay, then. Then I do think we disagree because I think where I was going to go from that is that I think to me, like, I'm not as informed on these arguments as I should be. So, like, I will fully admit, like, huge degree of, like, epistemic limitation here, but, like, I think my response was just going to be that I think, like, the case for AI would be sort of even weaker than those givewell style interventions. So even though they're, like, unlikely to be, you know, the best, like, you know, like x post in some, like, future where we, like, have more information about other kinds of ways that we could be helping people. Right. They're like, still, you know, better than the existing alternatives and.AARONYeah, yeah, I'm gonna.ARTHURSo what is the case for, like, near termist case for AI? Like, what if you could.AARONYeah, yeah. Just to, sorry. I like, promise I will answer that. But like, just to clarify. Yeah, so I'm like, more confident about, like, the give world charities are, like, not the ex ante best guess than I am that the better, like one of the best. Like, in fact, ways to help only humans alive right now would involve AI. So, like, these are related, but like, distinctive and the AI one I'm like, much less confident in and haven't, I guess, in some sense, just because it's so much more specific.ARTHURActually, let's do both parts because I realized earlier also what I meant was not ex ante, but ex post. Like, with much larger amount of information about other potential interventions, we might determine that something is better than Givewell. Right. But nonetheless, in the world that we actually live in, with the information that we currently have, the evidence is sufficiently strong for impact under the kinds of assumptions we're saying we're operating under. Right. That, like, you know, other, other competing interventions, like, have a very high bar to click. Like, maybe they're worthwhile in, like, a hit space giving kind of way. Like, in that, like, it's worth, like, trying a bunch of them to, like, see if one of them would outperform givewell. But, like, for the time being, you know, that whatever givewell spreadsheet says at any current time, I think is pretty, like, is pretty compelling in terms of, like, you know, higher certainty ways to help individuals.AARONYeah. So, um.ARTHURSo, so one, I want to hear, like, why you disagree with that. And then two, I want to hear, like, your case for, like, AI.AARONYeah, okay. I think I'm responding to this. Like, you can cut me off or whatever. Um, so, like, fundamentally, I want to, like, decouple. Haha. Or. Yeah, this is something I like doing and decouple, um, the, like, uh, yeah, who we care about. And, like, um, how, like, how aesthetically normal are we gonna be? So, like, I want to say, like, okay, even, yeah, if you. If you're, like, still in the realm of, like, doing analytic philosophy about the issue. And, like, you just, like, say, like, okay, we're just, like, gonna restrict, like, who we care about to, like, humans alive right now. There's, like, still a lot of weird shit that can, like, come out of that. And so, like, my claim, I think actually, like, what's what. Maybe this is, like, somewhat of a hot take, whatever. But I think, like, actually what's happening is, like, there is, like, a, quote, unquote like, worldview that, like, vibe associates and to some extent, like, explicitly endorses, like, only just like, for whatever reason, like, trying to help humans who are alive right now, or, like, maybe, like, who will become alive in the near future or something. But, like, this is always paired with, like, a default, like, often non explicit assumption that, like, we have to do things that look normal. Or, like. And to some extent you can. Some extent you can, like, formalize this by just, like, saying you, like, care about certain deep impact. I think there's, like, not even that technical, but, like, mildly, like, technical reasons why. Like, if you're still in the realm of, like, doing analytical philosophy about the issue, like, that doesn't check out, like, for example, you don't actually know, like, which specific person you're gonna help. I'm, like, a big fan of, like, the recent reaping priorities report. So I spent, like, five minutes, like, rambling and, like, doing a terrible job of explaining what I. What I mean. And so the idea that I'm getting at is that I think there's like a natural, like, tendency to think of risk aversion in like, an EA or just like generally, like, altruistic context. That basically means, like, we like, understand like, a chain of causality. And there are like, professional economists, like, doing RCT's and they like, know what works and what doesn't. And, like, this isn't, like, there's like, something there that is valuable. Like, doing good is hard. And so, like, you know, careful analysis is actually really important. But I think this, like, doesn't, there's a tendency to, like, ignore the fact that, like, these type of, like, give well style, like charities and give well, style, like, analysis to identify the top charities. Basically to, as far as I know, almost exclusively, like, looks at just one of, like one of like, the, the most salient or like, intended, like, basically first order effects of an intervention. So we, like, it's just not true that we know what the impact of like, giving $3,000 to the gens malaria foundation is. And, like, it's like, you know, maybe there are, like, compelling, compelling reasons to, like, think that basically it all washes out or whatever. And, like, in fact, like, you know, reducing deaths from malaria and sickness is like the absolute, like the single core effect. But, like, as far as I know, there's, like, not, that seems to be mostly just like taken as a given. And I don't think this is justified. And so I don't think this, like, really checks out as like, a type of risk aversion that stands up to scrutiny. And I found this tweet. Basically, I think this is like, good wording. The way to formalize this conception is just have narrow confidence intervals on the magnitude of one first order effect of an intervention. And that's an awfully specific type of risk aversion. This is not generally what people mean in all walks of life. And then I mentioned this rethink priorities report written by Laura Duffy first, Pigeonhauer Guest. And she basically lists three different types of risk aversion that she does in some rating priorities, like analysis. So, yeah, number one, avoiding the worst. Basically, this is the s risk style or modality of thinking. The risk. The thing we really, really want to avoid is the worst states of the world happening to me. And I think to many people, that means a lot suffering. And then number two, difference making risk aversion. Basically, we want to avoid not doing anything or causing harm. But this focus is on, like, not on the state of the world that results from some action, like, but like your causal effect. And then finally, number three, ambiguity aversion. Basically, we don't like uncertain probabilities. And for what it's worth, I think, like, yeah, the givewell style, like, leaning, I think, can be sort of understood as an attempt to get to, like, addressed, like, two and three difference making an ambiguity aversion. But like, yeah, for reasons that, like, are not immediately, like, coming to my head and like, verbalize, I, like, don't think. Yeah, basically for the reasons I said before that, like, there's really no comprehensive analysis there. Like, might seem like there is. And like, we do have like, decent point estimates and like, uncertainty ranges for like, one effect. One. But like, I. That doesn't, as far as I can tell, like, that is not like, the core. The core desire isn't just to have like, one narrow, like, nobody. I don't think anyone thinks that we, like, should intrinsically value, like, small confidence intervals. You know what I mean? And this stands in contrast to, as I said before, also s risk of french organizations, which are also, in a very real sense, doing risk aversion. In fact, they use the term risk a lot. So it makes sense. The givewell vibe and the s risk research organization vibes are very different, but they, in a real sense that they're at least both attempting to address some kind of risk aversion, although these kinds are very different. And I think the asterisk one is the most legitimate, honestly. Yeah. Okay, so that is a. There was sort of like a lemma or whatever and then. Yeah. So, like, the case for AI in like, near term only affecting humans. Yes. So, like, here's one example. Like, this is not the actual, like, full claim that I have, but like, one example of like, a type of intervention is like, seeing if you can make it basically like, what institutions need to be in place for, like, world UBI. And let's actually try to get that policy. Let's set up the infrastructure to get that in place. Like, even now, even if you don't care about, like, you think long termism is false, like, don't care about animals, don't care about future people at all, it seems like there is work we can do now, like, within, you know, in like, the realm of like, writing PDF's and like, building. Yeah, building like, like, political institutions or like, at least. Sorry, not building institutions, but like, affecting political institutions. Like via. Like, via, like, I guess like both like, domestic and like, international politics or whatever that, like, still. And sorry, I like, kind of lost like, the grammatical structure of that sentence, but it seems plausible that, like, this actually is like better than the givewell interventions, just like if you actually do like an earnest, like best guess, like point estimate. But the reason that I think this is plausible is that all the people who are willing to do that kind of analysis are like, aren't, aren't restricting themselves to like, only helping humans in like the near future. They're like, I don't know. So there's like a weird, like missing middle of sorts, which, depending on what the counterfactual is, maybe bad or good. But I'm claiming that it exists and there's at least a plausible gap that hasn't really been ruled out in any explicit sense.ARTHUROkay, yeah, great. No, no, that's all very useful. So I think, I guess setting x risky things aside, because I think this is a usual way to get at the crux of our disagreement. Like, it's funny, on the one hand, I'm very sympathetic to your claim that sort of like the kinds of things that give, well, sort of interventions and, you know, RCT's coming out of like development economics are interested in, like, I'm sympathetic to the idea that that's not implied by the kind of like basic near termist EA, philosophical presupposition.AARONThank you for just summarizing my point in like 1% of the words.ARTHURYeah, yeah. So I'm like, I actually strongly agree with that. And it's precisely why, like, I'm more open to things that aren't like givewell style interventions, why I'm very sympathetic to the economic growth side of the growth versus RCT perennial debate, all that. That's maybe interesting side discussion. But to stay on the AI point, I guess putting existential risk aside, I want to make the standard economist argument for AI optimism and against what you were just trying to say. So like, to me, like, I think it is like plausible enough that we should be concerned that, like, increasing AI progress and dissemination of AI technologies decreases returns to labor in the global economy. I think it's plausible enough that we should care about that and not dismiss it out of hand. But, like, I think it's far less likely that, like, or sorry, not. Well, I want to be careful with. I think it's potentially more likely that almost exactly the opposite is true. So, like, if I look at like the big picture history of like global economic growth, like the classic, you know, hockey stick graph where like GDP per capita for the world is like totally flat until, you know, like about 200 years ago. Right? Like, I think the standard, like this is a super interesting rich topic that I've been like learning a lot more about over the last few years. And I think, like the devil is very much in the details. But nonetheless, I think the kind of like classic, you know, postcard length summary is basically correct that like, why did that happen? That happened because like productivity of individual workers, like dramatically increased, like orders of magnitude due to technological progress, right? And like, whether that to what degree that technological progress is sort of like political institutional technologies versus like direct, like labor augmenting technologies is like, you know, whatever, way too deep to get into in this discussion. I don't have like good informed takes on that. But like, nonetheless, I think that, like, the basic like, sort of lump of labor fallacy, like, is strongly at play at these worries that AI is going to displace workers. Like, I think if like, you look at all these, you know, previous technologies, like the, you know, Luddites destroying the power looms or they weren't really power looms, but they were like this more like, you know, better kinds of handlers or whatever. Right, right. Like, I think the worry that people have always had, and again, I get, I'm giving the standard economists soapbox thing that everyone has heard before, but like, I just don't see why AI is categorically different from these other technological advancements. And that, like, at a glance, like, for me as an individual, like trying to build a research career and like get a job and stuff, my ability to access GPT four and Claude, like has I think, like dramatically increased my marginal productivity and like would presumably also increase my wage in the long term because I can just do a lot more in the same amount of time. So, like, it seems to me like just as if not more likely that the better AI technology gets, you have people that are able to produce more in economic value with the same amount of labor and therefore are going to increase economic growth and increase their wages rather than just somehow displace them out of the labor market. And I think there is something that I think EA should maybe paying more attention to, but like maybe they're too concerned with existential risk. There is some interesting experimental economics research already, like looking at this question, which is like having people who work in kind of like standard sort of like, you know, operations and middle management sort of office jobs, like using AI in their work. And I think one of the interesting findings seems to be like a lot of these experiments are finding that it has sort of an equalizing effect, which is like for the most productive employees at a given task, their productivity is like only very modestly improved by having access to large language models. But like, the least productive employees see like very large improvement in their productivity from these technologies. So, like, in my opinion, it seems plausible that like, you know, better access to these sorts of technologies would, if anything, make your, like, standard, you know, employee in the global economy, like, you know, not only more productive, but have this sort of like leveling of the playing field effect. Right. Where like people who, who do not have the current capacities to like produce a lot of value are sort of, you know, brought up to the same level as like.AARONYeah. So, like, I think these are all reasonable points. I also think, um, sorry, I think I have like three, like points, I guess. Yeah. On the object level, I like, don't think I have anything to like, add to this discussion. The one thing I would point out is that it seems like there's, as far as I can tell, like no disagreement that like in principle you can imagine a system that is better than all humans at all tasks that does not have the effect you're talking about in principle, better than humans, better than, better and cheaper than all humans at all tasks.ARTHURRight. With no human input required.AARONYeah, in principle, yeah.ARTHUROkay.AARONYeah, yeah. Like, I don't think this is a radical claim. So like, then there's like the now moving away from the object level. Like, okay, so we've like set this now. Like the normal, like default thing is to like have an debate where, oh, you make some more points in the direction you just said. And I said makes more points. I just said. But like, the thing I want to point out is that like this discussion is like absent from near termist EA because all the people who are taking ideas seriously have already moved on to other areas. And there was one more, but just.ARTHURTo jump on that for a second. But I think I totally take your point that then maybe a lot more people should be thinking about this. Right. But to me, like, whether that's possible in principle, like, like, and I think you're obviously going to agree with me on this. Like, to what degree that's relevant depends on like whether we are living in a world where like those systems are on the horizon or are going to exist in the near term future. Right. And like, to what degree that, you know, imprincible possibility, like, represents the actual path we're heading on is like sort of the real crux of the issue.AARONOh, yeah. Okay. Maybe I actually wasn't sure. Yes, because we're living in a more.ARTHURStandard story where like this just increases the marginal product of labor because everyone gets more productive when they, like, learn how to use these technologies, and it doesn't mean it's not going to be disruptive, because I think there's a lot of interesting IO research on how, with the implementation of computer technologies in a lot of workplaces, it was very difficult to train older employees to use the new systems. So really, the only solution for a lot of firms was essentially just, like, fire all of their old employees and hire people who actually knew how to use these technologies. But presuming we get past the disruptive transition where the old people get screwed or have to learn how to adapt, and then the young people who grew up learning how to use AI technologies enter the workforce, it seems very possible to me that those people are just going to be the most productive generation of workers ever. Accordingly.AARONYeah. Yeah. Again, I think there's, like, sorry, I, like, don't. I guess I was about to just, like, make this. It make the same point that I. That I was before. I guess, like, put a little bit more, like, yeah, be a little bit clearer about, like, what I mean by, like, this debate isn't happening. It is, like, it doesn't seem. Maybe I'm wrong, but, like, like, reasonably confident that, um, givewell isn't doing the thing that, like, the long term esteem on open philanthropy is where they're like, try to answer this question because it's really fucking important and really informs and really informs what kind of, like, what the best near term interventions are. And, like, maybe that's, like, I don't want to pick on Givewell because, like, maybe it's in, you know, givewell is, like, maybe it's, like, in their charter or, like, in some sense, just like, everybody assumes that, like, yeah, they're going to do, like, the econ RCT stuff or whatever, but, like, well, but there'd be value.ARTHURThat, like, that would be my defensive give. Well, like, is that, like, you know, you, like, comparative advantage is real, and, like, you know, having an organization that's like, we're just not gonna worry about these. Like, they don't even do animal stuff, you know? And I think that's a good decision. Like, I care a lot about animal stuff, but I'm glad that there's an organization that's, like, defined their mission narrowly enough such that they're like, we are going to, like, do the best sort of econ development rct kind of stuff. And if you're, like, into this project, like, we're gonna tell you the best way to use your.AARONYeah, I think that like, I don't know, in the abstract. Like, I think. I guess I'm, like, pretty, pretty 50 50 on, like, whether I think it's good. I don't think they should, like, if anybody's deciding, like, whether to, like, give a dollar to give well or, like, not give well with Nea, I think, like, yeah, it's like, don't give a dollar to give well. Like, I don't think they should get any funding, EA funding or whatever. And I can defend that, but, like, so, yeah, maybe that particular organization, but I. Insofar as we're willing to treat, like, near term sea as, like, an institution, like, my stronger claim is, like, it's not happening anywhere.ARTHURYeah, well, I mean, I, like, you're right. At one level, I think I more or less agree with you that it should be happening within that institution. But I think what, at least to me, like, your broad sketch of this sort of near termist case for AI, like, where that discussion and debate is really happening, is in, like, labor economics. You know what I mean? Like, it's not that aren't people interested in this. I just think the people who are interested in this, like, and I don't think this is a coincidence are the people that, like, don't think, you know, the paperclip bots are going to kill us. All, right? They're like, the people who are just, like, have a much more, like, normie set of priors about, like, what this technology is going to look like.AARONYeah, I do.ARTHURAnd, like, they're the ones who are, like, having the debate about, like, what is the impact of AI going to be on the workforce, on inequality, on, you know, global economic growth, like, and I think, like, but, like, I guess in a funny way, it seems like what you're advocating for is, like, actually a much more, like, Normie research project. Like, where you just have, like, a bunch of economists, like, being funded by open philanthropy or something to, like, answer these questions.AARONI think the answer is, like, sort of, um. Does some extent. Yeah, actually, I think, like, I. Like, I don't know. I'm, like, not. Yeah, I actually just, like, don't know. Like, I don't, like, follow econ, like, as a discipline. Like, enough to, like, I, like, believe you or whatever. And, like, obviously it's, like, it's, like, pretty clearly, like, both. I guess I've seen, like, examples I've thrown around of, like, papers or whatever. Yeah, there's, like, clearly, like, some, like, empirical research. I, like, don't know how much research is, like, dedicated to the question, like, yeah, I guess there's a question that's like, if you know, like, yeah. Is anybody, like, trying to. With, like, reasonable. With, like, reasonable parameters, estimate the share of, like, how, like, late the share or the returns to, like, labor or whatever will, like, change in, like, the next, like, ten years or five? Not. Not only. Not only, like, with GPT-3 or, like, not. Not assuming that, like, GPT four is going to be, like, the status quo.ARTHURYeah, I mean, to my knowledge, like, I have no idea. Like, basically I don't have an. All the stuff that I'm thinking of is from, like, you know, shout out Eric Brynjolfsson. Everyone should follow him on Twitter. But, like, like, there's some economists who are in the kind of, like, I o and, like, labor econ space that are doing, like, much more, like, micro level stuff about, like, existing LLM technologies. Like, what are their effects on, sort of, like, the, like, you know, I don't know, knowledge work for lack of a better word, like, workforce, but that, yeah, I grant that, like, that is a very much more, like, narrow and tangible project than, like, trying to have some kind of macroeconomic model that, like, makes certain assumptions about, like, the future of artificial.AARONYeah, and, like, which maybe someone is doing.ARTHURAnd, I mean, I.AARONNo, yeah, I'm interested. People should comment slash dm me on Twitter or whatever. Like, yeah, I mean, I think we're just, like, in agreement that. I mean, I mean, like, I think I have some, like, pretty standard concerns about, like, academic, like, academia, incentives, which are, like, also been, like, rehashed everywhere. But, like, I mean, it's an empirical question that we, like, both just, like, agree is an empirical question that we don't know the answer to. Like, I would be pretty surprised if, like, labor economics has, like, a lot to say about. About fundamentally non empirical questions because, like, it doesn't. Yeah, I guess, like, the claim I'm making is, like, that class of research where you, like, look at, like, yeah. Like, how does chat GPG, like, affect the productivity of workers in 2023? 2024? Really? Just like, I mean, it's not zero evidence, but it's really not very strong evidence for, like, what the share of labor income will be in, like, five to ten years. Like, yeah, and it's, like, relevant. I think it's, like, relevant. The people who are actually building this technology think it's going to be, like, true, at least as far as I can tell. Broadly, it is a consensus opinion among people working on building frontier AI systems that it is going to be more transformative or substantially more transformative than the Internet, probably beyond electricity as well. And if you take that assumption, like, premise on that assumption, it seems like the current. I would be very surprised if there's much academic, like, labor economics that, like, really has a lot to say about, like, what the world would be, like in five to ten years.ARTHURYeah, I think I was just gonna say that I'm, like, sufficiently skeptical that people, like, working on these technologies directly are, like, well positioned to, like, make those kinds of. I'm not saying the labor econ people are, like, better positioned than them to make those progress, but, like, I think.AARONNo, that's totally fair. Yeah, that is really to be fair.ARTHURAlso that, like. Like, I think some of this is coming from, like, coming from a prior that I, like, definitely should, like, you know, completely change with, like, the recent, you know, post GPT-3 like, explosion these technologies. But I just think, like, for, like, just if you look at the history, like, I'm not. I'm not saying I endorse this, but, like, if you look at the history of, like, you know, sort of AI, like, not like optimism per se, but, like, enthusiasm about, like, the pace of progress and all this, like, historically, like, it had a, like, many, many decade track record of, like, promising a lot and failing that, like, was only, like, very recently falsified by, like, GPT-3 and.AARONI mean, like, I think this is basically just, like, wrong. It's like, a common misconception. Not like you're. I think this is, like, totally reasonable. This is, like, what I would have. Like, it seems like the kind of thing that happened. I'm pretty sure, like, there have been some, like, actually, like, looking back analyses, but it's, like, not wouldn't. It's not like there's zero instances, but, like, there's been a real qu. It is not, like, the same level of AI enthusiasm, like, as persistent forever. And, like, now we're like, um. Yeah, now it seems like. Oh. Like we're getting some, like, you know, results that, like, that, like, maybe justify. It seems like, um. Yeah, the consent, like, people are way. Hmm. What am I. Sorry. The actual thing that I'm trying to say here is I basically think this is just not true.ARTHURMeaning, like, the consensus was like, that.AARONLike, people didn't think Agi was ten years away in 1970 or 1990.ARTHURWell, I mean, some people did. Come on.AARONYeah. So I can't.ARTHURYou mean, just like, the consensus of the field as a whole was not as I like.AARONSo all I like, I have, this is, like, this is the problem with, like, arguing a cast opinion. Like, my cashed opinion is, like, I've seen good, convincing evidence that, like, the very common sense thing, which is like, oh, but AI, there's always been AI hype is, like, at least misleading and, like, more or less, like, wrong and that, like, there's been a, like, a, yeah, and like, I don't actually remember the object level evidence for this. So, like, I can try to, like, yeah, that's fine.ARTHURAnd I also like to be clear, like, I don't have a strong, like, strongly informed take, like, for the, like, AI. Yeah, hype is overblown thing. But, like, putting that aside, I think the other thing that I would wonder is, like, even if individuals, like, who work on these technologies, like, correctly have certain predictions about the future that are pretty outside the window or that people aren't sufficiently taking seriously in terms of what they think progress is going to be. And maybe this is some lingering, more credentialist intuitions or whatever, but I think that. I am skeptical that those people would also be in a good position to make kinds of economic forecasts about what the impacts of those technologies.AARONYeah, I basically agree. I like, yeah, it's, I guess, like, the weak claim I want to make is, like, you don't have to have that high a percentage on, like, oh, maybe there's, like, some, like, maybe these people are broadly right. You don't have to think it's above 50% to, like, think that. Like, I think the original claim I was, like, making is, like, um, is like, why probably, like, standard, like, labor economics, like, as a subfield. Like, isn't really doing a ton to, like, answer the core questions that would inform my, like, original thing of, like, oh, like, is ubi, like, like, a better use of money than, like, I give you against malaria foundation or whatever? Um, I, like, yeah, I just, like, don't. Yeah, maybe I'll be, like, pleasantly surprised. But, like, yeah, we could, we could also, I don't know. Do you want to move on to.ARTHURA. Yeah, yeah, sure.AARONSorry. So I didn't mean to. You can have the last word on.ARTHURNo, no, I don't. I don't think I have the last word. I mean, I think it's funny, like, just how this has progressed in that, like, I think, like, I, I don't completely, like, I think, I don't completely disagree, but I also don't feel like my, like, mind has been, like, changed in a big way, if that makes sense. It's just like, maybe we're in one of these weird situations where, like, we kind of, like, do broadly agree on the, like, actual object level, like, questions or whatever, but then there's just some, like, slight difference in, like, almost, like, personality or disposition or, like, some background beliefs that we, like, haven't fully fleshed out that, like, that, like, at least in terms of how we, like, present and emphasize our positions. Like, we end up still being in different places, even if we're not actually that.AARONNo, something I was thinking about bringing up earlier was, like, oh, no. Yeah, basically this point. And then, like. But, like, my. My version of, like, your defensive of the, like, I guess, like, the give. Well, class is, like, my defense of donating to, like, the humane league or whatever, and, like, maybe it doesn't check. And, like, I don't know. I just. Yeah, it's for whatever reason, like, I. I, like, yes, something. I'm still, um. I guess I still don't. Sorry. I just did, like, a bunch of, like, episodic, like, jumps in my head, and I, like, I always forget, like, oh, they can't see my thought patterns in the podcast. Yeah, it seems, like, pretty possible that a formal analysis would say that even under a suffering focused worldview, yet donating to s risk prevention organizations, beats, for example, are at least beats like the Humane League or the Animal Welfare Fund, which we recently raised funds for.ARTHURDo you want to talk? So, there's many things we could talk about. One potential thing that comes to mind is, like, I have a not very well worked out, but just, like, sort of lingering skepticism of long termism in general, which, like, I think doesn't actually come from any, like, philosophical objection to long termist premises. So, like, I think the.AARONYeah, I think.ARTHURI don't know what you want to talk about.AARONI mean, if you really want. If you're, like, really enthusiastic about it.ARTHURI'm not.AARONHonestly, I feel like this has been beaten to death in, like, on 80k. There's cold takes. Like, there have been a. Sorry. I feel like we're not gonna add anything. Like, I'm not gonna add anything either.ARTHUROkay. I don't feel like I would.AARONI mean, we can come. Another thing is, like, yeah, this doesn't have to be super intellectual. Talk about climbing. We're talking about having a whole episode on climbing, so, like, maybe we should do that. Like, also anything. Like, I don't know. It doesn't have to be, like, these super, like, totally.ARTHURNo, no. That was something that came to mind, too, and I was like, oh, the long term isn't thing, but like, it would be fun to just like, talk about something that's like, much less related to any of these topics. And in some ways, given both of our limitations in terms of contributing to these object level EA things, that's not a criticism of either of us, but just in terms of our knowledge and expertise, it could be fun to talk about something more personal.AARONYeah, I need to forget that it's. Yeah. I don't know what is interesting to you.ARTHURI'm trying to think if we should talk about some other area of disagreement because I feel like, like, I'm like, this is, this is random and maybe we'll cut this from the podcast. This is a weird thing to say, but I feel like Laura Duffy is one of the few people that I've, like, met where we just have like a weird amount of the same opinions on like, many different topics that wouldn't seem to like, correlate with one another, like, whatsoever. And it's funny, like, I remember ages ago, like, listening to y'all's discussion on this podcast and just being like, God, Laura is so right. What the fuck does Aaron believe about all these things?AARONAnd I'm willing to relitigate some if it. If it's like something that hasn't been beaten to death elsewhere.ARTHURSo I think we should either talk about like, something more personal, like we should talk about like rock climbing or something, or we should, like, now I.AARONHave to defend myself. You can't just say, you know, yeah. Was it the, like, oh, old philosophy is bad.ARTHUROld philosophy.AARONOld philosophy is fucking terrible. And I'm guessing you don't like this take.ARTHURI do not. Well, I find this take entertaining and, like, I find this take, like, actually, like, I mean, this totally, like, this sounds like a huge backhand compliment, but, like, I actually think it's, like, super useful to hear something that you just, like, think is, like, so deeply wrong, but then you, like, take for granted when you, like, surround yourself with people who, like, would also think it's so deeply wrong. So I think it's, like, actually, like, very useful and interesting for me to, like, understand why one would hold this opinion.AARONAlso, I should. I guess I should clarify. So, like, I. It's like, this is like, the kind of thing that, like, oh, it's like, kind of is like, in my vibe disposition or whatever. Yeah. And, like, also, it is not like, the most high stakes thing in the world, like, talking in the abstract. So, like, when I said, like, oh, there, it's fucking terrible. I was, like, I was, like, being hyperbolic.ARTHUROh, I know.AARONI know. No, but, like, in all serious, like, not in all seriousness, but just, like, like, without being, I don't know, using any figurative language at all, I'm, like, not over. There are definitely things that I'm, like, much more confident about than this. So, like, I wouldn't say I'm, like, 90. Oh, it's a. Me too.ARTHURI'm, like, pretty open to being wrong on this. Like, I don't think I have, like, a deep personal vested stake.AARONYeah, no, I don't think.ARTHURIt's just, I think. Okay, so this is something. Or actually maybe. Maybe an interesting topic that we are by no means experts on but could be interesting to get into is, I think, like, a lot of the debates about, like, what is, like, the role of, like, kind of higher education in general or, like, somewhat hard to separate from these questions of, like, oh, yeah, old text. Because I'm sort of have two minds of this, which is, like, on the one hand, I think I buy a lot of the, like, criticisms of, like, the higher ed, like, sort of model. And that I think, like, this general story which is not novel to me in any way, shape or form, that, like, we have this weird system where, like, universities used to be a kind of, like, the american university system, like, you know, comes in a lot of ways from, like, the british university system, which. Which, if you look at it historically, is sort of like a finishing school for elites, right? Like, you have this, like, elite class of society, and you kind of, like, go to these institutions because you have a certain social position where you, like, learn how to, like, be this, like, educated, erudite, like, member of the, like, elite class in your society. And there's, like, no pretense that it's any kind of, like, practical, you know, skills based education that'll help prepare you for the labor force. It's just like, you're just, like, learning how to be, like, a good, you know, a good, like, member of the upper class, essentially. Right? And then that model was, like, very, like, successful and, like, I think, in many ways, like, actually important to, like, the development of, like, lots of institutions and ideas that, like, matter today. So it's not like, it's not like, you know, it's, like, worth, like, taking seriously, I suppose. But, like, I think there's some truth to, like, why the hell is this now how we, like, certify and credential, like, in a more kind of, like, merit, like, meritocratic sort of, like, world with more social mobility and stuff. Like, why is this sort of, like, liberal arts model of, like, you go to, like, learn how to be this, like, erudite person that, like, knows about the world and, like, the great texts of the western tradition or whatever. Like, I think there's something to the, like, this whole thing is weird. And, like, if what college is now supposed to do is, like, to train one to be, like, a skilled worker in the labor force, like, we ought to seriously rethink this. But at the same time, I think I do have some, like, emotional attachment to, like, the, like, more flowery

Recent bans and regulations, globally and nationally, on agriculture have caused negative impacts. Chief Strategy Officer at Kansas Farm Bureau Joel Leftwich paints the reality of the aftermath involving negative regulations on agriculture and how we should be more strategic in targeting the voter. Dairy Stream host Joanna Guza dives into the topics below with Joel: 1:40: Global examples of negative bans/regulations on agriculture 7:25: National examples 9:25: Hindsight, what could have been done differently 10:58: Strategic about which voter 13:43: Why the farmers voice is trusted 16:40: How to better engage voters on agricultural topics 20:21: Platform to use to engage voters 24:40: Topics to cover with voters 26:56: Situation like Prop12 happen again? 29:55: How to include engaging voters in your business model 33:21: How do agriculturalists stay in engaged on trends Special thanks to the Animal Agriculture Alliance for sponsoring this episode. Joel will be speaking at the Animal Agriculture Alliance Stakeholders Summit on May 8-9 in Kansas City, MO. It is a one-of-a-kind conference attended by a diverse group of decision makers, including representatives from farms, ranches, allied industries, food processors, restaurants, grocery stores, legislatures, universities, government agencies and media. Registration is available through May 1, learn more here. About the guest Chief Strategy Officer Kansas Farm Bureau President U.S. Agriculture Partnership Fund Joel Leftwich joined Kansas Farm Bureau in 2021 as the organization's Chief Strategy Officer. Prior to joining Kansas Farm Bureau, Leftwich worked in Washington, D.C. for nearly twenty years with public and private sector experience in food and agriculture policy. Leftwich spent most of his time as staff to Senator Pat Roberts (R-KS) serving in the personal office and then on the Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry Committee as Majority Staff Director. He also worked for Rep. Jim Ryun (R-KS) and the USDA during President George W. Bush's administration. His private sector experience includes positions with global food and agriculture companies PepsiCo and DuPont. Additionally, he was a Managing Director for the Glover Park Group's communications and government affairs consulting firm's Food Team. GPG's Food Team clients included international food, beverage, animal health, and innovative agriculture companies. As CSO for the Kansas Farm Bureau, Leftwich works with organizational leadership and members to develop and implement new programs and strategies to accomplish KFB's mission. Examples of KFB's new initiatives include: Engaged Kansas, a nonpartisan coalition dedicated to recruiting and training candidates for local public service; Rural Kansas Apprenticeship Program, where KFB serves as a federally Registered Apprenticeship Intermediary working with agricultural and rural employers to develop registered apprenticeships; and the U.S. Agriculture Partnership Fund, a 501(c)4 organization focused on public education of the importance of keeping the U.S. food supply safe and affordable. Leftwich received his bachelor's degree in political science and history from Friends University and a master's degree from Loyola University of Chicago in political science.  This podcast is co-produced by the Dairy Business Association and Edge Dairy Farmer Cooperative, sister organizations that fight for effective dairy policy in Wisconsin and Washington, D.C.  Become a sponsor, share an idea or feedback by emailing podcast@dairyforward.com. 

The Dairy Streamlet is a condensed version of a long Dairy Stream episode and covers just the high-level points of the conversation. If this topic interest you, then listen to the full episode on March 13. Past events, like Europe's Farm to Fork policy and California's Proposition 12, have negatively impacted the food supply chain. How can we learn from these events and better engage the voters? Join Dairy Stream host Joanna Guza and guest Joel Leftwich, Chief Strategy Officer at Kansas Farm Bureau, as they discuss the past situations that negatively impacted agriculture and how we can better engage with voters.  Special thanks to the Animal Agriculture Alliance for sponsoring this episode. Joel will be speaking at the Animal Agriculture Alliance Stakeholders Summit on May 8-9 in Kansas City, MO. It is a one-of-a-kind conference attended by a diverse group of decision makers, including representatives from farms, ranches, allied industries, food processors, restaurants, grocery stores, legislatures, universities, government agencies and media. Registration is available through May 1, learn more here. About the guest Chief Strategy Officer Kansas Farm Bureau President U.S. Agriculture Partnership Fund Joel Leftwich joined Kansas Farm Bureau in 2021 as the organization's Chief Strategy Officer. Prior to joining Kansas Farm Bureau, Leftwich worked in Washington, D.C. for nearly twenty years with public and private sector experience in food and agriculture policy. Leftwich spent most of his time as staff to Senator Pat Roberts (R-KS) serving in the personal office and then on the Senate Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry Committee as Majority Staff Director. He also worked for Rep. Jim Ryun (R-KS) and the USDA during President George W. Bush's administration. His private sector experience includes positions with global food and agriculture companies PepsiCo and DuPont. Additionally, he was a Managing Director for the Glover Park Group's communications and government affairs consulting firm's Food Team. GPG's Food Team clients included international food, beverage, animal health, and innovative agriculture companies. As CSO for the Kansas Farm Bureau, Leftwich works with organizational leadership and members to develop and implement new programs and strategies to accomplish KFB's mission. Examples of KFB's new initiatives include: Engaged Kansas, a nonpartisan coalition dedicated to recruiting and training candidates for local public service; Rural Kansas Apprenticeship Program, where KFB serves as a federally Registered Apprenticeship Intermediary working with agricultural and rural employers to develop registered apprenticeships; and the U.S. Agriculture Partnership Fund, a 501(c)4 organization focused on public education of the importance of keeping the U.S. food supply safe and affordable. Leftwich received his bachelor's degree in political science and history from Friends University and a master's degree from Loyola University of Chicago in political science.  This podcast is co-produced by the Dairy Business Association and Edge Dairy Farmer Cooperative, sister organizations that fight for effective dairy policy in Wisconsin and Washington, D.C.  Become a sponsor, share an idea or feedback by emailing podcast@dairyforward.com. 

Beating Forest, and drinking from the cup of their salty tears, was amazing.  The rising panic of no wins in what seemed like months has subsided.  To have Ivan Toney back, along with a host of others, has cheered the Gtech right up.Today we talk with Trevor Inns, who runs the Griffin Park Grapevine website and is such a insightful and interesting guest.  To new fans of Brentford FC:  If you've not logged onto the GPG...I'll wait while you create an account...A special shout-out to Greville Waterman.  He's had to take a week off, and we sure missed his knowledge and his general passion.   The staff at ASFB looks forward to getting back to discussing all things Spursy in the next week.

Topics covered in this episode: logmerger The third and final Python 3.12 RC is out now The Python dictionary dispatch pattern Visualizing the CPython Release Process Extras Joke Watch on YouTube About the show Sponsored by us! Support our work through: Our courses at Talk Python Training Python People Podcast Patreon Supporters Connect with the hosts Michael: @mkennedy@fosstodon.org Brian: @brianokken@fosstodon.org Show: @pythonbytes@fosstodon.org Join us on YouTube at pythonbytes.fm/live to be part of the audience. Usually Tuesdays at 11am PT. Older video versions available there too. Brian #1: logmerger Paul McGuire logmerger is a TUI for viewing a merged display of multiple log files, merged by timestamp. Built on textual Awesome flags: --output - to send the merged logs to stdout --start START and --end END start and end time to select time window for merging logs Caveats: new. no pip install yet. so clone the code or download perhaps I jumped the gun on covering this, but it's cool Michael #2: The third and final Python 3.12 RC is out now Get your final bugs fixed before the full release Call to action: We strongly encourage maintainers of third-party Python projects to prepare their projects for 3.12 compatibilities during this phase How to test. Discussion on the issue. Count down until October 2nd, 2023. Brian #3: The Python dictionary dispatch pattern I kinda love (and hate) jump tables in C We don't talk about dictionary dispatch much in Python, so this is nice, if not dangerous. Short story: you can store lambdas or functions in dictionaries, then look them up and call them at the same time. Also, I gotta shout out to the first blogroll I've seen in a very long time. Should we bring back blogrolls? Michael #4: Visualizing the CPython Release Process by Seth Larson Here's the deal (you should see the image in the article

On this week's episode, The Athletic's Jay Harris returns for some discussion around the 1-0 loss to Newcastle, questions from Twitter and the GPG, and Everton this weekend... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Green Bay Packers are 1-1 through their first two games of the 2023 season. They went on the road to Atlanta, blew a 24-12 fourth-quarter lead, and fell 25-24 to the Falcons. In this quick-hitting podcast episode, I react to the first two games and calm Packer nation down as the new Jordan Love era is still extremely young. I hit on the performance from yesterday, including Joe Barry, the run defense, mistakes in the secondary, and more. I'll be back AFTER the MNF game in Vegas before the bye week on Oct. 10. GPG. Thanks for reading Ethan Carter's Newsletter! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit ethancartersports.substack.com

On this week's episode, Mike and Callum discuss the 2-2 draw against Bournemouth, questions from Twitter and the GPG, and a trip to the North-East this weekend... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week's episode, Mike, Clayton and Callum dissect Saturday's 3-0 decimation of Fulham, answer some questions from the GPG, and preview Crystal Palace at home this weekend... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On this week's episode, Mike, Tias, Clayton and Nile review Brentford's exploits in The States, the transfer business so far, and some questions from Twitter and the GPG... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Joseph Barbuto, economic historian and forecaster, and proponent of The Economic Longwave Theory. We discuss the key elements of Longwave, some of the signposts we've seen, key reasons for inflating Canadian housing, testosterone replacement therapy, and much more. We thank Joseph for his time, and very much look forward to having him back on The CBP. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Join our Discord group for more CBP and a great community! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Ryan MacLeod, @NuclearBitcoinr, for a discussion on nuclear energy, Bitcoin and more. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Ivan Makedonski, Chief of Staff for Breez, for a wide ranging discussion on Lightning economics, the future of payments, and much more. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: Larry Fink's About-Face Kids Stealing Millions Ledger Forces The Recover Update KuCoin Shotgun KYC Binance and BUSD Wobbling BRICS, USD, Failure to Launch One Trillion in 34 Days And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Drew Armstrong, President and COO of Cathedra Bitcoin (TSXV: $CBIT) for a discussion on the wild 18 months that was, the vertically integrated miner, the importance of innovation, and the male urge to conquer. We thank Drew for his time, and will absolutely have him back in the future. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: ETF Dialogue Begins What Becomes of Coinbase Post-ETF Swan/Custody Canadian Rebate Season The Cost of Green Energy France Riots The Environment for Bitcoiners Going Forward And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Natalie Smolenski who makes her CBP debut. Natalie has become an important voice in Bitcoin for her ideas and warnings related to CBDCs, the transition to digital dollars, and more. We thank her for her time, and look forward to having her back. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Luke Broyles. Luke is a relatively new Bitcoiner working on a film to help orange pill as many as possible. You can support his work here. We appreciate Luke making time for a late evening rip! As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: The UK Stimulates, Blames Zelda Blackrock and Self Custody Ledger Continues to Fail Its Users Bank Error in Ukraine's Favour Prime Trust Deal Evaporates Apple vs Damus CBDC Debate Intensifying Taleb Blows It And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Nick AKA NobodyCaribou, who needs no introduction anywhere in the Canadian Bitcoin space. Nick and Len discuss all things Bitcoin and Freedom. A big thanks to Nick for his time, we look forward to having him back on The CBP. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: The Canadian Bitcoin Conference Wrap Up The ETF Debate Funnels for New Bitcoiners Canadians Living In Debt Based Poverty Taiwan and US Weakness And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. A little pre-conference cross-over with Green Candle and friend of the show Mark Jeftovic - some bonus content just a bit outside of the usual schedule for CBP. Enjoy! As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

Our guest is Nick Wooster who's bio and experience reads like a roll call of top American fashion brands and stores. Nick's tenure in the menswear space has spanned over 30 years and has included work as a consultant, buyer, designer, creative director and advisor with companies and brands such as Barney's New York, Bergdorf Goodman, Neiman Marcus, Calvin Klein, Ralph Lauren and more.  He was named to Vanity Fair's ‘International Best Dressed List' as well as GQ's ‘International Man of The Year' while making numerous appearances on the covers of your favourite fashion magazines.  Nick is currently consulting for a handful of global fashion brands while cultivating an enviable digital presence with a large social media presence as a fashion authority who pushes boundaries through his distinctive personal style. We talked about Nick's personal journey as well as branding, design, personal development, the life of a fashion influencer as well as his thoughts on the current state of the fashion world itself and the following topics:  A Modern Day Rennaissance Man Growing Up In Kansas  Moving To New York Nick's Fashion Career  Working With Ralph Lauren Social Media & Personal Branding Why Nick's Style Appeals To So Many Men What Every Man Should Have In His Closet   The Death Of Suits? The Current State Of Fashion Balenciaga & The 'Derelicte' Campaign From Zoolander  Pricing In Fashion Is Beyond Offensive Lunch With Fran Lebowitz  Being Mistaken For David Beckham Success Over 50 Years Old How To Stay Young Every week, the RUN GPG Podcast aims to provide inspirational stories from people who made a mark in entrepreneurship, entertainment, personal development, and the real estate industry. It is produced by the GREATER PROPERTY GROUP to help the audience grow and scale their business and their life. Know more about GREATER PROPERTY GROUP and the RUN GPG Podcast by going to www.rungpg.com or by getting in touch with us here: info@greaterpropertygroup.com.   Contact Nick Wooster: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nickwooster Website: https://www.nickwooster.com/   Contact David Morrell: TikTok: tiktok.com/@morrellionaire Instagram: instagram.com/thegreaterdavid/ Twitter: twitter.com/fearofdavid   Subscribe & Review The RUN GPG Podcast Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the RUN GPG Podcast! Please leave us a review on iTunes. This will help us continue delivering beneficial content for you and our listeners each week!

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week we welcome Blake Davis and Danny Condon of Blockware Solutions. Blockware is an all-encompassing mining solution, with owned data centres, more than 300,000 rigs sold, and a boatload of in-house expertise. Thanks to the two men for their time this evening. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: The SEC Goes After Coinbase The Issues for Both Sides The SEC Failing Americans Defending BNB? Prime Trust Issues Wealth Gap Fallout for Under 35s BoC Raises 25bps And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

This week we investigate the mystery of failing GPG signatures for the 16.04 ISO images, plus we look at security updates for CUPS, Avahi, the Linux kernel, FRR, Go and more.

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above (mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp) for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week Greg Foss stops in to talk about a surpsie quarter point from Tiff and the team, Canadian bank safety, a conference preview, and much more. Big thanks to Greg for coming on with barely any notice, we had a great chat with tons of solid commentary on the current state of affairs. As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! Sponsored by Bull Bitcoin! The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. With their new kyc-free options, there's never been a quicker, simpler, more private and (most importantly) cheaper way to acquire private Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 on your first buy, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer. This week: New sponsor - we're joined by Francis Pouliot Binance in the Crosshairs Frozen Assets and 3rd World Problems Shakepay Licensing The Demise of Custodial Exchanges El Salvador Ups and Downs Self Custody Hurdles and a Conference Preview And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

On this week's episode, Mike and Clayton discuss a league double over the champions, some questions from the GPG, and a second season in the top flight... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of ⁠The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast⁠. ⁠Sponsored by EasyDNS!⁠ All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! This week we're joined by Jared and Ragnar for a discussion on Acceleration Theory, which was covered in an article penned by Jared several weeks ago (https://accelerationpleb.substack.com/p/what-is-acceleration-theory). Enjoy! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! This week: Debt Ceiling Deal The Higher-Taxes Fly-Wheel ARK The LN Killer? Ledger Pauses Recover Tresor In the Crosshairs Insane Potential UK Pension Changes Canadian Real Estate Update and Debt-to-GDP And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of ⁠The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast⁠. ⁠Sponsored by EasyDNS!⁠ All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! This week we're joined by Mitchell and Ray, two Canadian farmers who shared their opinions on the current state of affairs in Canadian agriculture, and where Bitcoin can make a difference. These guys will definitely be back on The CBP in the future, and we appreciate their time. Enjoy! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of ⁠The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast⁠. ⁠Sponsored by EasyDNS!⁠ All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! This week we're joined by Dave Bradley of Bitcoin Well. $BTCW has news regarding coverage of their stock, we discuss what's next, and then get into the Miami Conference wins and losses, upcoming Canadian conferences, and finally Bitcoin's role in The Fermi Paradox. Enjoy! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

FRIENDS AND ENEMIES Welcome to another recording of The Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast. Sponsored by EasyDNS! All of your web hosting, GPG email, VPS hosting (for your Bitcoin Node, BTCPay Server or Nostr Relay) and more. Use code "CBPMedia" for a juicy discount! This week: Ledger's Nightmare Disagreeing on Better vs Best BTC Miami - The Good, The Bad, The Dancing How Should We Feel About RFK? Bitcoin Pizza Day Debt Ceiling And much more As always, leave us some feedback on Apple Podcasts - your ratings and reviews help the show grow - or reach out to Joey and Len on Twitter, leave us a note on our Reddit posts, or drop a comment on our YouTube channel. We appreciate all the support and feedback, and hope you'll come back for more! Don't forget about the TWO Canadian conferences debuting this year! https://canadianbitcoinconf.com/ https://bitcoinrodeo.com/ Grab some tickets, meet some Bitcoiners, have a good time. You know the drill. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/canadian-bitcoiners/message

On this week's episode, Mike, Clayton and Nile are joined by Ealing Road debutant, @callummaguire96 to discuss the win against Steve Cooper's Nottingham Forest, and a trip to Anfield this weekend. All that, plus Away Days and your questions from the GPG and Twitter... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

PyPI has been in the news for a bunch of reasons lately. Many of them good. But also, some with a bit of drama or mixed reactions. On this episode, we have Dustin Ingram, one of the PyPI maintainers and one of the directors of the PSF, here to discuss the whole 2FA story, securing the supply chain, and plenty more related topics. This is another important episode that people deeply committed to the Python space will want to hear. Links from the show Dustin on Twitter: @di_codes Hardware key giveaway: pypi.org OpenSSF funds PyPI: openssf.org James Bennet's take: b-list.org Atomicwrites (left-pad on PyPI): reddit.com 2FA PyPI Dashboard: datadoghq.com github 2FA - all users that contribute code by end of 2023: github.blog GPG - not the holy grail: caremad.io Sigstore for Python: pypi.org pip-audit: pypi.org PEP 691: peps.python.org PEP 694: peps.python.org Watch this episode on YouTube: youtube.com --- Stay in touch with us --- Subscribe to us on YouTube: youtube.com Follow Talk Python on Twitter: @talkpython Follow Michael on Twitter: @mkennedy Sponsors RedHat IRL Podcast AssemblyAI Talk Python Training

Episode Notes Episode summary Margaret talks with Elle an anarchist and security professional about different threat modeling approaches and analyzing different kinds of threats. They explore physical threats, digital security, communications, surveillance,and general OpSec mentalities for how to navigate the panopticon and do stuff in the world without people knowing about it...if you're in Czarist Russia of course. Guest Info Elle can be found on twitter @ellearmageddon. Host and Publisher The host Margaret Killjoy can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Show Links Transcript Live Like the World is Dying: Elle on Threat Modeling Margaret 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like The World Is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host, Margaret killjoy. And with me at the exact moment is my dog, who has just jumped up to try and talk into the microphone and bite my arm. And, I use 'she' and 'they' pronouns. And this week, I'm going to be talking to my friend Elle, who is a, an anarchist security professional. And we're going to be talking about threat modeling. And we're going to be talking about how to figure out what people are trying to do to you and who's trying to do it and how to deal with different people trying to do different things. Like, what is the threat model around the fact that while I'm trying to record a podcast, my dog is biting my arm? And I am currently choosing to respond by trying to play it for humor and leaving it in rather than cutting it out and re recording. This podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero network of anarchists podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show on the network. Jingle Margaret 02:00 Okay, if you could introduce yourself, I guess, with your name and your pronouns, and then maybe what you do as relates to the stuff that we're going to be talking about today. Elle 02:10 Yeah, cool. Hi, I'm Elle. My pronouns are they/them. I am a queer, autistic, anarchist security practitioner. I do security for a living now that I've spent over the last decade, working with activist groups and NGOs, just kind of anybody who's got an interesting threat model to help them figure out what they can do to make themselves a little a little safer and a little more secure. Margaret 02:43 So that word threat model. That's actually kind of what I want to have you on today to talk about is, it's this word that we we hear a lot, and sometimes we throw into sentences when we want to sound really smart, or maybe I do that. But what does it mean, what is threat modeling? And why is it relevant? Elle 03:02 Yeah, I actually, I really love that question. Because I think that we a lot of people do use the term threat modeling without really knowing what they mean by it. And so to me, threat modeling is having an understanding of your own life in your own context, and who poses a realistic risk to you, and what you can do to keep yourself safe from them. So whether that's, you know, protecting communications that you have from, you know, state surveillance, or whether it's keeping yourself safe from an abusive ex, your threat model is going to vary based on your own life experiences and what you need to protect yourself from and who those people actually are and what they're capable of doing. Margaret 03:52 Are you trying to say there's not like one solution to all problems that we would just apply? Elle 03:58 You know, I love... Margaret 03:58 I don't understand. Elle 04:00 I know that everybody really, really loves the phrase "Use signal. Use TOR," and you know, thinks that that is the solution to all of life's problems. But it actually turns out that, no, you do have to have both an idea of what it is that you're trying to protect, whether it's yourself or something like your communications and who you're trying to protect it from, and how they can how they can actually start working towards gaining access to whatever it is that you're trying to defend. Margaret 04:31 One of the things that when I think about threat modeling that I think about is this idea of...because the levels of security that you take for something often limit your ability to accomplish different things. Like in Dungeons and Dragons, if you were plate armor, you're less able to be a dexterous rogue and stealth around. And so I think about threat modeling, maybe as like learning to balance....I'm kind of asking this, am I correct in this? Balancing what you're trying to accomplish with who's trying to stop you? Because like, you could just use TOR, for everything. And then also like use links the little like Lynx [misspoke "Tails"] USB keychain and never use a regular computer and never communicate with anyone and then never accomplish anything. But, it seems like that might not work. Elle 05:17 Yeah, I mean, the idea, the idea is to prevent whoever your adversaries are from keeping you from doing whatever you're trying to accomplish. Right? So if the security precautions that you're taking to prevent your adversaries from preventing you from doing a thing are also preventing you from doing the thing, then it doesn't matter, because your adversaries have just won, right? So there, there definitely is a need, you know, to be aware of risks that you're taking and decide which ones make sense, which ones don't make sense. And kind of look at it from from a dynamic of "Okay, is this something that is in my, you know, acceptable risk model? Is this a risk I'm willing to take? Are there things that I can do to, you know, do harm reduction and minimize the risk? Or at least like, make it less? Where are those trade offs? What, what is the maximum amount of safety or security that I can do for myself, while still achieving whatever it is that I'm trying to achieve?" Margaret 06:26 Do you actually ever like, chart it out on like, an X,Y axis where you get like, this is the point where you start getting diminishing returns? I'm just imagining it. I've never done that. Elle 06:37 In, in the abstract, yes, because that's part of how autism brain works for me. But in a, like actually taking pen to paper context, not really. But that's, you know, at least partially, because of that's something that autism brain just does for me. So I think it could actually be a super reasonable thing to do, for people whose brains don't auto filter that for them. But but I'm, I guess, lucky enough to be neurodivergent, and have like, you know, like, we always we joke in tech, "It's not a bug, it's a feature." And I feel like, you know, autism is kind of both sometimes. In some cases, it's totally a bug and and others, it's absolutely a feature. And this is one of the areas where it happens to be a feature, at least for me. Margaret 07:35 That makes sense. I, I kind of view my ADHD as a feature, in that, it allows me to hyper focus on topics and then move on and then not come back to them. Or also, which is what I do now for work with podcasting, and a lot of my writing. It makes it hard to write long books, I gotta admit, Elle 07:56 Yeah, I work with a bunch of people with varying neuro types. And it's really interesting, like, at least at least in my own team, I think that you know, the, the folks who are more towards the autism spectrum disorder side of of the house are more focused on things like application security, and kind of things that require sort of sustained hyper focus. And then folks with ADHD make just absolutely amazing, like incident responders and do really, really well in interrupt driven are interrupts heavy contexts, Margaret 08:38 Or sprinters. Elle 08:40 It's wild to me, because I'm just like, yes, this makes perfect sense. And obviously, like, these different tasks are better suited to different neuro types. But I've also never worked with a manager who actually thought about things in that way before. Margaret 08:53 Right. Elle 08:54 And so it's actually kind of cool to be to be in a position where I can be like, "Hey, like, Does this sound interesting to you? Would you rather focus on this kind of work?" And kind of get that that with people. Margaret 09:06 That makes sense that's.... i I'm glad that you're able to do that. I'm glad that people that you work with are able to have that you know, experience because it is it's hard to it's hard to work within....obviously the topic of today is...to working in the workplace is a neurodivergent person, but it I mean it affects so many of us you know, like almost whatever you do for work the the different ways your brain work are always struggling against it. So. Elle 09:32 Yeah, I don't know. It just it makes sense to me to like do your best to structure your life in a way that is more conducive to your neurotype. Margaret 09:44 Yeah. Elle 09:45 You know, if you can. Margaret 09:49 I don't even realize exactly how age ADHD I was until I tried to work within a normal workforce. I built my entire life around, not needing to live in one place or do one thing for sustained periods of time. But okay, but back to the threat modeling. Margaret 10:07 The first time I heard of, I don't know if it's the first time I heard a threat modeling or not, I don't actually know when I first started hearing that word. But the first time I heard about you, in the context of it was a couple years back, you had some kind of maybe it was tweets or something about how people were assuming that they should use, for example, the more activist focused email service Rise Up, versus whether they should just use Gmail. And I believe that you were making the case that for a lot of things, Gmail would actually be safer, because even though they don't care about you, they have a lot more resources to throw at the problem of keeping governments from reading their emails. That might be a terrible paraphrasing of what you said. But this, this is how I was introduced to this concept of threat modeling. If you wanted to talk about that example, and tell me how I got it all wrong. Elle 10:07 Yeah. Elle 10:58 Yeah. Um, so you didn't actually get it all wrong. And I think that the thing that I would add to that is that if you are engaging in some form of hypersensitive communication, email is not the mechanism that you want to do that. And so when I say things like, "Oh, you know, it probably actually makes sense to use Gmail instead of Rise Up," I mean, you know, contexts where you're maybe communicating with a lawyer and your communications are privileged, right?it's a lot harder to crack Gmail security than it is to crack something like Rise Up security, just by virtue of the volume of resources available to each of those organizations. And so where you specifically have this case where, you know, there's, there's some degree of legal protection for whatever that means, making sure that you're not leveraging something where your communications can be accessed without your knowledge or consent by a third party, and then used in a way that is conducive to parallel construction. Margaret 12:19 So what is parallel construction? Elle 12:20 Parallel construction is a legal term where you obtain information in a way that is not admissible in court, and then use that information to reconstruct a timeline or reconstruct a mechanism of access to get to that information in an admissible way. Margaret 12:39 So like every cop show Elle 12:41 Right, so like, with parallel construction around emails, for example, if you're emailing back and forth with your lawyer, and your lawyer is like, "Alright, like, be straight with me. Because I need to know if you've actually done this crime so that I can understand how best to defend you." And you're like, "Yeah, dude, I totally did that crime," which you should never admit to in writing anyway, because, again, email is not the format that you want to have this conversation in. But like, if you're gonna admit to having done crimes in email, for some reason, how easy it is for someone else to access that admission is important. Because if somebody can access this email admission of you having done the crimes where you're, you know, describing in detail, what crimes you did, when with who, then it starts, like, it gets a lot easier to be like, "Oh, well, obviously, we need to subpoena this person's phone records. And we should see, you know, we should use geolocation tracking of their device to figure out who they were in proximity to and who else was involved in this," and it can, it can be really easy to like, establish a timeline and get kind of the roadmap to all of the evidence that they would need to, to put you in jail. So it's, it's probably worth kind of thinking about how easy it is to access that that information. And again, don't don't admit to doing crimes in email, email is not the format that you want to use for admitting to having done crimes. But if you're going to, it's probably worth making sure that, you know, the the email providers that you are choosing are equipped with both robust security controls, and probably also like a really good legal team. Right? So if...like Rise Up isn't going to comply with the subpoena to the like, to the best of their ability, they're not going to do that, but it's a lot easier to sue Rise Up than it is to sue Google. Margaret 14:51 Right. Elle 14:51 And it's a lot easier to to break Rise Up's security mechanisms than it is to break Google's, just by virtue of how much time and effort each of those entities is able to commit to securing email. Please don't commit to doing crimes in email, just please just don't. Don't do it in writing. Don't do it. Margaret 15:15 Okay, let me change my evening plans. Hold on let me finish sending this email.. Elle 15:23 No! Margaret 15:25 Well, I mean, I guess like the one of the reasons that I thought so much about that example, and why it kind of stuck with me years later was just thinking about what people decide they're safe, because they did some basic security stuff. And I don't know if that counts under threat modeling. But it's like something I think about a lot is about people being like, "I don't understand, we left our cell phones at home and went on a walk in the woods," which is one of the safest ways anyone could possibly have a conversation. "How could anyone possibly have known this thing?" And I'm like, wait, you, you told someone you know, or like, like, not to make people more paranoid, but like... Elle 16:06 Or maybe, maybe you left your cell phone at home, but kept your smartwatch on you, because you wanted to close, you know, you wanted to get your steps for the day while you were having this conversation, right? Margaret 16:19 Because otherwise, does it even count if I'm not wearing my [smartwatch]. Elle 16:21 Right, exactly. And like, we joke, and we laugh, but like, it is actually something that people don't think about. And like, maybe you left your phones at home, and you went for a walk in the woods, but you took public transit together to get there and were captured on a bunch of surveillance cameras. Like there's, there's a lot of, especially if you've actually been targeted for surveillance, which is very rare, because it's very resource intensive. But you know, there there are alternate ways to track people. And it does depend on things like whether or not you've got additional tech on you, whether or not you were captured on cameras. And you know, whether whether or not your voices were picked up by ShotSpotter, as you were walking to wherever the woods were like, there's just there's we live in a panopticon. I don't say that so that people are paranoid about it, I say it because it's a lot easier to think about, where, when and how you want to phrase things. Margaret 17:27 Yeah. Elle 17:28 In a way that you know, still facilitates communications still facilitates achieving whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish, but sets you sets you up to be as safe as possible in doing it. And I think that especially in anarchist circles, just... and honestly also in security circles, there's a lot of of like, dogmatic adherence to security ritual, that may or may not actually make sense based on both, you, who your actual adversaries are, and what their realistic capabilities are. Margaret 18:06 And what they're trying to actually accomplish I feel like is...Okay, one of the threat models that I like...I encourage people sometimes to carry firearms, right in very specific contexts. And it feels like a security... Oh, you had a good word for it that you just used...ritual of security theater, I don't remember...a firearm often feels like that, Elle 18:30 Right. Margaret 18:31 In a way where you're like," Oh, I'm safe now, right, because I'm carrying a firearm." And, for example, I didn't carry a firearm for a very long time. Because for a long time, my threat model, the people who messed with me, were cops. And if a cop is going to mess with me, I do not want to have a firearm on me, because it will potentially escalate a situation in a very bad way. Whereas when I came out and started, you know, when I started getting harassed more for being a scary transwoman, and less for being an anarchist, or a hitchhiker, or whatever, you know, now my threat model is transphobes, who wants to do me harm. And in a civilian-civilian context, I prefer I feel safer. And I believe I am safer in most situations armed in that case. But every time I leave the house, I have to think about "What is my threat model?" And then in a similar way, sorry, it's just me thinking about the threat model of firearms, but it's the main example that I think of, is that often people's threat model in terms of firearms and safety as themselves, right? And so you just actually need to do the soul searching where you're like,"What's more likely to happen to me today? Am I likely to get really sad, or am I likely to get attacked by fascists?" Elle 19:57 Yeah. And I think that there is there's an additional question, especially when you're talking about arming yourself, whether it's firearms, or carrying a knife, or whatever, because like, I don't own any firearms, but I do carry a knife a lot of the time. And so like some questions, some additional questions that you have to ask yourself are, "How confident am I in my own ability to use this to harm another person?" Because if you're going to hesitate, you're gonna get fucked up. Margaret 20:28 Yeah. Elle 20:28 Like, if you are carrying a weapon, and you pull it out and hesitate in using it, it's gonna get taken away from you, and it's going to be used against you. So that's actually one of the biggest questions that I would say people should be asking themselves when developing a threat model around arming themselves is, "Will I actually use this? How confident am I?" if you're not confident, then it's okay to leave it at home. It's okay to practice more. It's okay to like develop that familiarity before you start using it as an EDC. Sorry an Every Day Carry. And then the you know, the other question is, "How likely am I to get arrested here?" I carry, I carry a knife that I absolutely do know how to use most of the time when I leave the house. But when I'm going to go to a demonstration, because the way that I usually engage in protests or in demonstrations is in an emergency medical response capacity, I carry a medic kit instead. And my medic kit is a clean bag that does not have any sharp objects in it. It doesn't have anything that you know could be construed as a weapon it doesn't have...it doesn't...I don't even have weed gummies which are totally like recreationally legal here, right? I won't even put weed in the medic kit. It's it is very much a... Margaret 21:52 Well, if you got a federally arrested you'd be in trouble with that maybe. Elle 21:55 Yeah, sure, I guess. But, like the medic bag is very...nothing goes in this kit ever that I wouldn't want to get arrested carrying. And so there's like EMT shears in there. Margaret 22:12 Right. Elle 22:13 But that's that's it in terms of like... Margaret 22:16 Those are scary you know...the blunted tips. Elle 22:21 I know, the blunted tips and the like safety, whatever on them. It's just...it's it is something to think about is "Where am I going...What...Who am I likely to encounter? And like what are the trade offs here?" Margaret 22:37 I remember once going to a demonstration a very long time ago where our like, big plan was to get in through all of the crazy militarized downtown in this one city and, and the big plan is we're gonna set up a Food Not Bombs inside the security line of the police, you know. And so we picked one person, I think I was the sacrificial person, who had to carry a knife, because we had to get the folding tables that we're gonna put the food on off of the top of the minivan. And we had to do it very quickly, and they were tied on. And so I think I brought the knife and then left it in the car and the car sped off. And then we fed people and they had spent ten million dollars protecting the city from 30 people feeding people Food Not Bombs. Elle 23:20 Amazing. Margaret 23:22 But, but yeah, I mean, whereas every other day in my life, especially back then when I was a hitchhiker, I absolutely carried a knife. Elle 23:30 Yeah. Margaret 23:31 You know, for multiple purposes. Yeah, okay, so then it feels like...I like rooting it in the self defense stuff because I think about that a lot and for me it maybe then makes sense to sort of build up and out from there as to say like...you know, if someone's threat model is my ex-partner's new partner is trying to hack me or my abusive ex is trying to hack me or something, that's just such a different threat model than... Elle 24:04 Yeah, it is. Margaret 24:05 Than the local police are trying to get me versus the federal police are trying to get me versus a foreign country is trying to get me you know, and I and it feels like sometimes those things are like contradictory to each other about what isn't isn't the best maybe. Elle 24:19 They are, because each of those each of those entities is going to have different mechanisms for getting to you and so you know, an abusive partner or abusive ex is more likely to have physical access to you, and your devices, than you know, a foreign entity is, right? Because there's there's proximity to think about, and so you know, you might want to have....Actually the....Okay, so the abusive ex versus the cops, right. A lot of us now have have phones where the mechanism for accessing them is either a password, or some kind of biometric identifier. So like a fingerprint, or you know, face ID or whatever. And there's this very dogmatic adherence to "Oh, well, passwords are better." But passwords might actually not be better. Because if somebody has regular proximity to you, they may be able to watch you enter your password and get enough information to guess it. And if you're, if you're not using a biometric identifier, in those use cases, then what can happen is they can guess your password, or watch, you type it in enough time so that they get a good feeling for what it is. And they can then access your phone without your knowledge while you're sleeping. Right? Margaret 25:46 Right. Elle 25:47 And sometimes just knowing whether or not your your adversary has access to your phone is actually a really useful thing. Because you know how much information they do or don't have. Margaret 26:01 Yeah. No that's... Elle 26:03 And so it really is just about about trade offs and harm reduction. Margaret 26:08 That never would have occurred to me before. I mean, it would occur to me if someone's trying to break into my devices, but I have also fallen into the all Biometrics is bad, right? Because it's the password, you can't change because the police can compel you to open things with biometrics, but they can't necessarily compel you...is more complicated to be compelled to enter a password. Elle 26:31 I mean, like, it's only as complicated as a baton. Margaret 26:34 Yeah, there's that XKCD comic about this. Have you seen it? Elle 26:37 Yes. Yes, I have. And it is it is an accurate....We like in security, we call it you know, the Rubber Hose method, right? It we.... Margaret 26:46 The implication here for anyone hasn't read it is that they can beat you up and get you to give them their [password]. Elle 26:50 Right people, people will usually if they're hit enough times give up their password. So you know, I would say yeah, you should disable biometric locks, if you're going to go out to a demonstration, right? Which is something that I do. I actually do disable face ID if I'm taking my phone to a demo. But it...you may want to use it as your everyday mechanism, especially if you're living in a situation where knowing whether or not your abuser has access to your device is likely to make a difference in whether you have enough time to escape. Margaret 27:30 Right. These axioms or these these beliefs we all have about this as the way to do security,the you know...I mean, it's funny, because you brought up earlier like use Signal use Tor, I am a big advocate of like, I just use Signal for all my communication, but I also don't talk about crime pretty much it in general anyway. You know. So it's more like just like bonus that it can't be read. I don't know. Elle 27:57 Yeah. I mean, again, it depends, right? Because Signal...Signal has gotten way more usable. I've been, I've been using Signal for a decade, you know, since it was still Redphone and TextSecure. And in the early days, I used to joke that it was so secure, sometimes your intended recipients don't even get the messages. Margaret 28:21 That's how I feel about GPG or PGP or whatever the fuck. Elle 28:24 Oh, those those.... Margaret 28:27 Sorry, didn't mean to derail you. Elle 28:27 Let's not even get started there. But so like Signal again, has gotten much better, and is way more reliable in terms of delivery than it used to be. But I used to, I used to say like, "Hey, if it's if it's really, really critical that your message reach your recipient, Signal actually might not be the way to do it." Because if you need if you if you're trying to send a time sensitive message with you know guarantee that it actually gets received, because Signal used to be, you know, kind of sketchy on or unreliable on on delivery, it might not have been the best choice at the time. One of the other things that I think that people, you know, think...don't think about necessarily is that Signal is still widely viewed as a specific security tool. And that's, that's good in a lot of cases. But if you live somewhere, for example, like Belarus, where it's not generally considered legal to encrypt things, then the presence of Signal on your device is enough in and of itself to get you thrown in prison. Margaret 29:53 Right. Elle 29:53 And so sometimes having a mechanism like, you know, Facebook secret messages might seem like a really, really sketchy thing to do. But if your threat model is you can't have security tools on your phone, but you still want to be able to send encrypted messages or ephemeral messages, then that actually might be the best way to kind of fly under the radar. So yeah, it again just really comes down to thinking about what it is that you're trying to protect? From who? And under what circumstances? Margaret 30:32 Yeah, I know, I like this. I mean, obviously, of course, you've thought about this thing that you think about. I'm like, I'm just like, kind of like, blown away thinking about these things. Although, okay, one of these, like security things that I kind of want to push back on, and actually, this is a little bit sketchy to push back on, the knife thing. To go back to a knife. I am. I have talked to a lot of people who have gotten themselves out of very bad situations by drawing a weapon without then using it, which is illegal. It is totally illegal. Elle 31:03 Yes Margaret 31:03 I would never advocate that anyone threaten anyone with a weapon. But, I know people who have committed this crime in order to...even I mean, sometimes it's in situations where it'd be legal to stab somebody,like... Elle 31:16 Sure. Margaret 31:16 One of the strangest laws in the United States is that, theoretically, if I fear for my life, I can draw a gun.... And not if I fear for my life, if I am, if my life is literally being threatened, physically, if I'm being attacked, I can I can legally draw a firearm and shoot someone, I can legally pull a knife and stab someone to defend myself. I cannot pull a gun and say "Back the fuck off." And not only is it illegal, but it also is a security axiom, I guess that you would never want to do that. Because as you pointed out, if you hesitate now the person has the advantage, they have more information than they used to. But I still know a lot of hitchhikers who have gotten out of really bad situations by saying, "Let me the fuck out of the car." Elle 32:05 Sure. Margaret 32:06 Ya know?. Elle 32:06 Absolutely. It's not....Sometimes escalating tactically can be a de-escalation. Right? Margaret 32:17 Right. Elle 32:18 Sometimes pulling out a weapon or revealing that you have one is enough to make you no longer worth attacking. But you never know how someone's going to respond when you do that, right? Margaret 32:33 Totally Elle 32:33 So you never know whether it's going to cause them to go "Oh shit, I don't want to get stabbed or I don't want to get shot," and stop or whether it's going to trigger you know a more aggressive response. So it doesn't mean that you know, you, if you pull a weapon you have to use it. Margaret 32:52 Right. Elle 32:53 But if you're going to carry one then you do need to be confident that you will use it. Margaret 32:58 No, that that I do agree with that. Absolutely. Elle 33:00 And I think that is an important distinction, and I you know I also think that...not 'I think', using a gun and using a knife are two very different things. For a lot of people, pulling the trigger on a gun is going to be easier than stabbing someone. Margaret 33:20 Yeah that's true. Elle 33:21 Because of the proximity to the person and because of how deeply personal stabbing someone actually is versus how detached you can be and still pull the trigger. Margaret 33:35 Yeah. Elle 33:36 Like I would...it sounds...it feels weird to say but I would actually advocate most people carry a gun instead of a knife for that reason, and also because if you're, if you're worried about being physically attacked, you know you have more range of distance where you can use something like a gun than you do with a knife. You have to be, you have to be in close quarters to to effectively use a knife unless you're like really good at throwing them for some reason and even I wouldn't, cause if you miss...now your adversary has a knife. Margaret 34:14 I know yeah. Unless you miss by a lot. I mean actually I guess if you hit they have a knife now too. Elle 34:22 True. Margaret 34:23 I have never really considered whether or not throwing knives are effective self-defense weapons and I don't want to opine too hard on this show. Elle 34:31 I advise against it. Margaret 34:32 Yeah. Okay, so to go back to threat modeling about more operational security type stuff. You're clearly not saying these are best practices, but you're instead it seems like you're advocating of "This as the means by which you might determine your best practices." Elle 34:49 Yes. Margaret 34:49 Do you have a...do you have a a tool or do you have like a like, "Hey, here's some steps you can take." I mean, we all know you've said like, "Think about your enemy," and such like that, but Is there a more...Can you can you walk me through that? Elle 35:04 I mean, like, gosh, it really depends on who your adversary is, right? Elle 35:10 Like, if you're if you're thinking about an abusive partner, that's obviously going to vary based on things like, you know, is your abusive partner, someone who has access to weapons? Are they someone who is really tech savvy? Or are they not. At...The things that you have to think about are going to just depend on the skills and tools that they have access to? Is your abusive partner or your abusive ex a cop? Because that changes some things. Margaret 35:10 Yeah, fair enough. Margaret 35:20 Yeah. Elle 35:27 So like, most people, if they actually have a real and present kind of persistent threat in their life, also have a pretty good idea of what that threat is capable of, or what that threat actor or is capable of. And so it, it's it, I think, it winds up being fairly easy to start thinking about things in terms of like, "Okay, how is this person going to come after me? How, what, what tools do they have? What skills do they have? What ability do they have to kind of attack me or harm me?" But I think that, you know, as we start getting away from that really, really, personal threat model of like the intimate partner violence threat model, for example, and start thinking about more abstract threat models, like "I'm an anarchist living in a state," because no state is particularly fond of us. Margaret 36:50 Whaaaat?! Elle 36:51 I know it's wild, because like, you know, we just want to abolish the State and States, like want to not be abolished, and I just don't understand how, how they would dislike us for any reason.. Margaret 37:03 Yeah, it's like when I meet someone new, and I'm like, "Hey, have you ever thought about being abolished?" They're usually like, "Yeah, totally have a beer." Elle 37:10 Right. No, it's... Margaret 37:11 Yes. Elle 37:11 For sure. Um, but when it comes to when it comes to thinking about, you know, the anarchist threat model, I think that a lot of us have this idea of like, "Oh, the FBI is spying on me personally." And the likelihood of the FBI specifically spying on 'you' personally is like, actually pretty slim. But... Margaret 37:34 Me? Elle 37:35 Well... Margaret 37:37 No, no, I want to go back to thinking about it's slim, it's totally slim. Elle 37:41 Look...But like, there's there is a lot like, we know that, you know, State surveillance dragnet exists, right, we know that, you know, plaintext text messages, for example, are likely to be caught both by, you know, Cell Site Simulators, which are in really, really popular use by law enforcement agencies. Margaret 38:08 Which is something that sets up and pretends to be a cell tower. So it takes all the data that is transmitted over it. And it's sometimes used set up at demonstrations. Elle 38:16 Yes. So they, they both kind of convinced your phone into thinking that they are the nearest cell tower, and then actually pass your communications on to the next, like the nearest cell tower. So your communications do go through, they're just being logged by this entity in the middle. That's, you know, not great. But using something... Margaret 38:38 Unless you're the Feds. Elle 38:39 I mean, even if you... Margaret 38:41 You just have to think about it from their point of. Hahah. Elle 38:42 Even if you are the Feds, that's actually too much data for you to do anything useful with, you know? Margaret 38:50 Okay, I'll stop interuppting you. Haha. Elle 38:51 Like, it's just...but if you're if you are a person who is a person of interest who's in this group, where a cell site simulator has been deployed or whatever, then then that you know, is something that you do have to be concerned about and you know, even if you're not a person of interest if you're like texting your friend about like, "All right, we do crime in 15 minutes," like I don't know, it's maybe not a great idea. Don't write it down if you're doing crime. Don't do crime. But more importantly don't don't create evidence that you're planning to do crime, because now you've done two crimes which is the crime itself and conspiracy to commit a crime Margaret 39:31 Be straight. Follow the law. That's the motto here. Elle 39:35 Yes. Oh, sorry. I just like I don't know, autism brain involuntarily pictured, like an alternate universe in which in where which I am straight, and law abiding. And I'm just I'm very... Margaret 39:52 Sounds terrible. I'm sorry. Elle 39:53 Right. Sounds like a very boring.... Margaret 39:55 Sorry to put that image in your head. Elle 39:56 I mean, I would never break laws. Margaret 39:58 No. Elle 39:59 Ever Never ever. I have not broken any laws I will not break any laws. No, I think that... Margaret 40:08 The new "In Minecraft" is "In Czarist Russia." Instead of saying "In Minecraft," because it's totally blown. It's only okay to commit crimes "In Czarist Russia." Elle 40:19 Interesting. Margaret 40:23 All right. We don't have to go with that. I don't know why i got really goofy. Elle 40:27 I might be to Eastern European Jewish for that one. Margaret 40:31 Oh God. Oh, my God, now I just feel terrible. Elle 40:34 It's It's fine. It's fine. Margaret 40:36 Well, that was barely a crime by east... Elle 40:40 I mean it wasn't necessarily a crime, but like my family actually emigrated to the US during the first set of pogroms. Margaret 40:51 Yeah. Elle 40:52 So like, pre Bolshevik Revolution. Margaret 40:57 Yeah. Elle 40:59 But yeah, anyway. Margaret 41:02 Okay, well, I meant taking crimes like, I basically think that, you know, attacking the authorities in Czarist Russia is a more acceptable action is what I'm trying to say, I really don't have to try and sell you on this plan. Elle 41:16 I'm willing to trust your judgment here. Margaret 41:19 That's a terrible plan, but I appreciate you, okay. Either way, we shouldn't text people about the crimes that we're doing. Elle 41:26 We should not text people about the crimes that we're planning on doing. But, if you are going to try to coordinate timelines, you might want to do that using some form of encrypted messenger so that whatever is logged by a cell site simulator, if it is in existence is not possible by the people who are then retrieving those logs. And you know, and another reason to use encrypted messengers, where you can is that you don't necessarily want your cell provider to have that unencrypted message block. And so if you're sending SMS, then your cell, your cell provider, as the processor of that data has access to an unencrypted or plain text version of whatever text message you're sending, where if you're using something like Signal or WhatsApp, or Wicker, or Wire or any of the other, like, multitude of encrypted messengers that you could theoretically be using, then it's it's also not going directly through your your provider, which I think is an interesting distinction. Because, you know, we we know, from, I mean, we kind of sort of already knew, but we know for a fact, from the Snowden Papers, that cell providers will absolutely turn over your data to the government if they're asked for it. And so minimizing the amount of data that they have about you to turn over to the government is generally a good practice. Especially if you can do it in a way that isn't going to be a bunch of red flags. Margaret 43:05 Right, like being in Belarus and using Signal. Elle 43:08 Right. Exactly. Margaret 43:10 Okay. Also, there's the Russian General who used an unencrypted phone where he then got geo located and blowed up. Elle 43:23 Yeah. Margaret 43:24 Also bad threat modeling on that that guy's part, it seems like Elle 43:28 I it, it certainly seems to...that person certainly seems to have made several poor life choices, not the least of which was being a General in the Russian army. Margaret 43:41 Yeah, yeah. That, that tracks. So one of the things that we talked about, while we were talking about having this conversation, our pre-conversation conversation was about...I think you brought up this idea that something that feels secret, doesn't mean it is, and Elle 43:59 Yeah! Margaret 44:00 I'm wondering if you had more thoughts about that concept? It's not a very good prompt. Elle 44:05 So like, it's it's a totally reasonable prompt, we say a lot that, you know, security and safety are a feeling. And I think that that actually is true for a lot of us. But there's this idea that, Oh, if you use coded language, for example, then like, you can't get caught. I don't actually think that's true, because we tend to use coded language that's like, pretty easily understandable by other people. Because the purpose of communicating is to communicate. Margaret 44:42 Yeah. Elle 44:43 And so usually, if you're like, code language is easy enough to be understood by whoever it is you're trying to communicate with, like, someone else can probably figure it the fuck out too. Especially if you're like, "Hey, man, did you bring the cupcakes," and your friend is like, "Yeah!" And then an explosion goes off shortly thereafter, right? It's like, "Oh, by cupcakes, they meant dynamite." So I, you know, I think that rather than then kind of like relying on this, you know, idea of how spies work or how, how anarchists communicated secretly, you know, pre WTO it's, it's worth thinking about how the surveillance landscape has adapted over time, and thinking a little bit more about what it means to engage in, in the modern panopticon, or the contemporary panopticon, because those capabilities have changed over time. And things like burner phones are a completely different prospect now than they used to be. Actually... Margaret 45:47 In that they're easier or wose? Elle 45:49 Oh, there's so much harder to obtain now. Margaret 45:51 Yeah, okay. Elle 45:52 It's it is so much easier to correlate devices that have been used in proximity to each other than it used to be. And it's so much easier to, you know, capture people on surveillance cameras than it used to be. I actually wrote a piece for Crimethinc about this some years ago, that that I think kind of still holds up in terms of how difficult it really, really is to procure a burner phone. And in order to do to do that safely, you would have to pay cash somewhere that couldn't capture you on camera doing it, and then make sure that it was never turned on in proximity with your own phone anywhere. And you would have to make sure that it only communicated with other burner phones, because the second it communicates with a phone that's associated to another person, there's a connection between your like theoretical burner phone and that person. And so you can be kind of triangulated back to, especially if you've communicated with multiple people. It just it is so hard to actually obtain a device that is not in any way affiliated with your identity or the identity of any of your comrades. But, we have to start thinking about alternative mechanisms for synchronous communication. Margaret 47:18 Okay. Elle 47:18 And, realistically speaking, taking a walk in the woods is still going to be the best way to do it. Another reasonable way to go about having a conversation that needs to remain private is actually to go somewhere that is too loud and too crowded to...for anyone to reasonably overhear or to have your communication recorded. So using using the kind of like, signal to noise ratio in your favor. Margaret 47:51 Yeah. Elle 47:52 To help drown out your own signal can be really, really useful. And I think that that's also true of things like using Gmail, right? The signal to noise ratio, if you're not using a tool that's specifically for activists can be very helpful, because there is just so much more traffic happening, that it's easier to blend in. Margaret 48:18 I mean, that's one reason why I mean, years ago, people were saying that's why non activists should use GPG, the encrypted email service that is terrible, was so attempt to try and be like, if you only ever use it, for the stuff you don't want to be known, then it like flags it as "This stuff you don't want to be known." And so that was like, kind of an argument for my early adoption Signal, because I don't break laws was, you know, just be like," Oh, here's more people using Signal," it's more regularized, and, you know, my my family talks on Signal and like, it helps that like, you know, there's a lot of different very normal legal professions that someone might have that are require encrypted communication. Yeah, no book, like accountants, lawyers. But go ahead. Elle 49:06 No, no, I was gonna say that, like, it's, it's very common in my field of work for people to prefer to use Signal to communicate, especially if there is, you know, a diversity of phone operating systems in the mix. Margaret 49:21 Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, it's actually now it's more convenient. You know, when I when I'm on my like, family's SMS loop, it's like, I constantly get messages to say, like, "Brother liked such and such comment," and then it's like, three texts of that comment and...anyway, but okay, one of the things that you're talking about, "Security as a feeling," right? That actually gets to something that's like, there is a value in like, like, part of the reason to carry a knife is to feel better. Like, and so part of like, like anti-anxiety, like anxiety is my biggest threat most most days, personally. Right? Elle 50:00 Have you ever considered a career in the security field, because I, my, my, my former manager, like the person who hired me into the role that I'm in right now was like, "What made you get into security?" when I was interviewing, and I was just like, "Well, I had all this anxiety lying around. And I figured, you know, since nobody will give me a job that I can afford to sustain myself on without a degree, in any other field, I may as well take all this anxiety and like, sell it as a service." Margaret 50:33 Yeah, I started a prepper podcast. It's what you're listening to right now. Everyone who's listening. Yeah, exactly. Well, there's a value in that. But then, but you're talking about the Panopticon stuff, and the like, maybe being in too crowded of an environment. And it's, and this gets into something where everyone is really going to have to answer it differently. There's a couple of layers to this, but like, the reason that I just like, my profile picture on twitter is my face. I use my name, right? Elle 51:03 Same. Margaret 51:04 And, yeah, and I, and I just don't sweat it, because I'm like, "Look, I've been at this long enough that they know who I am. And it's just fine. It's just is." One day, it won't be fine. And then we have other problems. Right? Elle 51:18 Right. Margaret 51:19 And, and, and I'm not saying that everyone as they get better security practice will suddenly start being public like it... You know, it, it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Like, a lot of the reasons to not be public on social media is just because it's a fucking pain in the ass. Like, socially, you know? Elle 51:36 Yeah. Margaret 51:36 But I don't know, I just wonder if you have any thoughts about just like, the degree to which sometimes it's like, "Oh, well, I just, I carry a phone to an action because I know, I'm not up to anything." But then you get into this, like, then you're non-normalizing... don't know, it gets complicated. And I'm curious about your thoughts on that kind of stuff. Elle 51:56 So like, for me, for me personally, I am very public about who I am. What I'm about, like, what my politics are. I'm extremely open about it. Partially, because I don't think that, like I think that there is value in de-stigmatizing anarchism. Margaret 52:20 Yes. Elle 52:20 I think there is value in being someone who is just a normal fucking human being. And also anarchist. Margaret 52:29 Yeah. Elle 52:30 And I think that, you know, I...not even I think. I know, I know that, through being exactly myself and being open about who I am, and not being super worried about the labels that other people apply to themselves. And instead, kind of talking about, talking about anarchism, both from a place of how it overlaps with Judaism, because it does in a lot of really interesting ways, but also just how it informs my decision making processes. I've been able to expose people who would not necessarily have had any, like, concept of anarchism, or the power dynamics that we're interested in equalizing to people who just wouldn't have wouldn't have even thought about it, or would have thought that anarchists are like this big, scary, whatever. And, like, there, there are obviously a multitude of tendencies within anarchism, and no anarchist speaks for anybody but themselves, because that's how it works. But, it's one of the things that's been really interesting to me is that in the security field, one of the new buzzwords is Zero Trust. And the idea is that you don't want to give any piece of technology kind of the sole ability to to be the linchpin in your security, right? So you want to build redundancy, you want to make sure that no single thing is charged with being the gatekeeper for all of your security. And I think that that concept actually also applies to power. And so I...when I'm trying to talk about anarchism in a context where it makes sense to security people, I sometimes talk about it as like a Zero Trust mechanism for organizing a society. Margaret 54:21 Yeah. Elle 54:21 Where you just you...No person is trustworthy enough to hold power over another person. And, so like, I'm really open about it, but the flip side of that is that, you know, I also am a fucking anarchist, and I go to demonstrations, and sometimes I get arrested or whatever. And so I'm not super worried about the government knowing who I am because they know exactly who I am. But I don't share things like my place of work on the internet because I've gotten death threats from white nationalists. And I don't super want white nationalists like sending death threats into my place of work because It's really annoying to deal with. Margaret 55:02 Yeah. Elle 55:03 And so you know, there's...it really comes down to how you think about compartmentalizing information. And which pieces of yourself you want public and private and and how, how you kind of maintain consistency in those things. Margaret 55:21 Yeah. Elle 55:22 Like people will use the same...people will like be out and anarchists on Twitter, but use the same Twitter handle as their LinkedIn URL where they're talking about their job and have their legal name. And it's just like, "Buddy, what are you doing?" Margaret 55:37 Yeah. Elle 55:38 So you do have to think about how pieces of data can be correlated and tied back to you. And what story it is that you're you're presenting, and it is hard and you are going to fuck it up. Like people people are going to fuck it up. Compartmentalization is super hard. Maintaining operational security is extremely hard. But it is so worth thinking about. And even if you do fuck it up, you know, that doesn't mean that it's the end of the world, it might mean that you have to take some extra steps to mitigate that risk elsewhere. Margaret 56:11 The reason I like this whole framework that you're building is that I tend to operate under this conception that clandestinity is a trap. I don't want to I don't want to speak this....I say it as if it's a true statement across all and it's not it. I'm sure there's absolute reasons in different places at different times. But in general, when I look at like social movements, they, once they move to "Now we're just clandestine." That's when everyone dies. And, again, not universally, Elle 56:40 Yeah, but I mean, okay, so this is where I'm gonna get like really off the wall. Right? Margaret 56:46 All right. We're an hour in. It's the perfect time. Elle 56:50 I know, right? People may or may not know who Allen Dulles is. But Allen Margaret 56:54 Not unless they named an airport after him. Elle 56:56 They Did. Margaret 56:57 Oh, then i do who he is. Elle 56:59 Allen Dulles is one of the people who founded the CIA. And he released this pamphlet called "73 Points On Spycraft." And it's a really short read. It's really interesting, I guess. But the primary point is that if you are actually trying to be clandestine, and be successful about it, you want to be as mundane as possible. Margaret 57:22 Yep. Elle 57:23 And in our modern world with the Panopticon being what it is, the easiest way to be clandestine, is actually to be super open. So that if you are trying to hide something, if there is something that you do want to keep secret, there's enough information out there about you, that you're not super worth digging into. Margaret 57:46 Oh, yeah. Cuz they think they already know you. Elle 57:48 Exactly. So if, if that is what your threat model is, then the best way to go about keeping a secret is to flood as many other things out there as possible. So that it's just it's hard to find anything, but whatever it is that you're flooding. Margaret 58:04 Oh, it's like I used to, to get people off my back about my dead name, I would like tell one person in a scene, a fake dead name, and be like, "But you can't tell anyone." Elle 58:15 Right. Margaret 58:16 And then everyone would stop asking about my dead name, because they all thought they knew it, because that person immediately told everyone, Elle 58:22 Right. Margaret 58:23 Yeah. Elle 58:24 It's, it's going back to that same using the noise to hide your signal concept, that it...the same, the same kind of concepts and themes kind of play out over and over and over again. And all security really is is finding ways to do harm reduction for yourself, finding ways to minimize the risk that you're undertaking just enough that that you can operate in whatever it is that you're trying to do. Margaret 58:53 No, I sometimes I like, ask questions. And then I am like, Okay, well don't have an immediate follow up, because I just need to like, think about it. Instead of being like, "I know immediately what to say about that." But okay, so, but with clandestinity in general in this this concept...I also think that this is true on a kind of movement level in a way that I I worry about sometimes not necessarily....Hmm, what am I trying to say? Because I also really hate telling people what to do. It's like kind of my thing I don't like telling people what to do. But there's a certain level... Elle 59:25 Really? Margaret 59:25 Yeah, you'd be shocked to know, Elle 59:27 You? Don't like telling people what to do? Margaret 59:31 Besides telling people not to tell me what to do. That's one of my favorite things to tell people. But, there's a certain amount of. Margaret 59:38 Oh, that's true, like different conceptions of freedom. Elle 59:38 But that's not telling people what to do, that's telling people what not to do. Elle 59:44 It's actually setting a boundary as opposed to dictating a behavior. Margaret 59:48 But I've been in enough relationships where I've learned that setting boundaries is the same as telling people to do. This is a funny joke. Elle 59:55 Ohh co-dependency. Margaret 59:58 But all right, there's a quote from a guy whose name I totally space who was an old revolutionist, who wasn't very good at his job. And his quote was, "Those who make half a revolution dig their own graves." And I think he like, I think it proved true for him. If I remember correctly, I think he died in jail after kind of making half a revolution with some friends. I think he got like arrested for pamphleteering or something, Elle 1:00:20 Jesus. Margaret 1:00:21 It was a couple hundred years ago. And but there's this but then if you look forward in history that like revolutionists, who survive are the ones who win. Sometimes, sometimes the revolutionists win, and then their comrades turn on them and murder them. But, I think overall, the survival rate of a revolution is better when you win is my theory. And and so there's this this concept where there's a tension, and I don't have an answer to it. And I want people to actually think about it instead of assuming, where the difference between videotaping a cop car on fire and not is more complicated than people want you to know. Because, if you want there to be more cop cars on fire, which I do not unless we're in Czarist Russia, in which case, you're in an autocracy, and it's okay to set the cop cars on fire, but I'm clearly not talking about that, or the modern world. But, you're gonna have to film it on your cell phone in order for people to fucking know that it's happening. Sure. And and that works absolutely against your best interest. Like, on an individual level, and even a your friends' level. Elle 1:01:25 So like, here's the thing, being in proximity to a burning cop car is not in and of itself a crime. Margaret 1:01:33 Right. Elle 1:01:34 So there's, there's nothing wrong with filming a cop car on fire. Margaret 1:01:41 But there's that video... Margaret 1:01:41 Right. Elle 1:01:41 There is something wrong with filming someone setting a cop car on fire. And there's something extremely wrong with taking a selfie while setting a cop car on fire. And don't do that, because you shouldn't do crime. Obviously, right? Elle 1:01:42 But there's Layers there...No, go ahead. Margaret 1:02:03 Okay, well, there's the video that came out of Russia recently, where someone filmed themselves throwing Molotovs at a recruitment center. And one of the first comments I see is like, "Wow, this person has terrible OpSec." And that's true, right? Like this person is not looking at how to maximize their lack of chance of going to jail, which is probably the way to maximize that in non Czarist Russia... re-Czarist Russia, is to not throw anything burning at buildings. That's the way to not go to jail. Elle 1:02:35 Right. Margaret 1:02:35 And then if you want to throw the thing at the... and if all you care about is setting this object on fire, then don't film yourself. Elle 1:02:41 Right. Margaret 1:02:41 But if you want more people to know that this is a thing that some people believe is a worthwhile thing to do, you might need to film yourself doing it now that person well didn't speak. Elle 1:02:53 Well no. Margaret 1:02:56 Okay. Elle 1:02:56 You may not need to film yourself doing it. Right? Because what what you can do is if, for example, for some reason, you are going to set something on fire. Margaret 1:03:09 Right, in Russia. Elle 1:03:09 Perhaps what you might want to do is first get the thing to be in a state where it is on fire, and then begin filming the thing once it is in a burning state. Margaret 1:03:25 Conflaguration. Yeah. Elle 1:03:25 Right? And that can that can do a few things, including A) you're not inherently self incriminating. And, you know, if if there are enough people around to provide some form of cover, like for example, if there are 1000s of other people's cell phones also in proximity, it might even create some degree of plausible deniability for you because what fucking dipshit films themself doing crimes. So it's, you know, there's, there's, there's some timing things, right. And the idea is to get it...if you are a person who believes that cop cars look best on fire... Margaret 1:04:10 Buy a cop car, and then you set it on fire. And then you film it. Elle 1:04:15 I mean, you know, you know, you just you opportunistically film whenever a cop car happens to be on fire in your proximity. Margaret 1:04:23 Oh, yeah. Which might have been set on fire by the person who owned it. There's no reason to know one way or not. Elle 1:04:27 Maybe the police set the cop car on fire you know? You never know. There's no way to there....You don't have to you don't have to speculate about how the cop car came to be on fire. You can just film a burning cop car. And so the you know, I think that the line to walk there is just making sure there's no humans in your footage of things that you consider to be art. Margaret 1:04:29 Yeah. No, it it makes sense. And I guess it's like because people very, very validly have been very critical about the ways that media or people who are independently media or whatever, like people filming shit like this, right? But But I think then to say that like, therefore no, no cop cars that are on fire should ever be filmed versus the position you're presenting, which is only cop cars that are already on fire might deserve to be filmed, which is the kind of the long standing like film the broken window, not the window breaker and things like that. But... Elle 1:05:29 I think and I think also there's, you know, there's a distinction to be made between filming yourself setting a cop car on fire, and filming someone else setting a cop car on fire, because there's a consent elemenet, right? Margaret 1:05:34 Totally. Totally. Elle 1:05:47 You shouldn't like...Don't do crime. Nobody should do crime. But if you are going to do crime, do it on purpose. Right? Margaret 1:05:55 Fair enough. Elle 1:05:55 Like that's, that's what civil disobedience is. Civil disobedience is doing crime for the purpose of getting caught to make a point. That's what it is. And if you if you really feel that strongly about doing a crime to make a point, and you want everyone to know that you're doing a crime to make a point, then that's, that's a risk calculation that you yourself need to make for yourself. But you can't make that calculation for anybody else. Margaret 1:06:25 I think that's a great way to sum it up. Elle 1:06:27 So unless your friend is like, "Yo, I'm gonna set this cop car on fire. Like, get the camera ready, hold my beer." You probably shouldn't be filming them. Margaret 1:06:38 See you in 30 years. Elle 1:06:39 Right? You probably shouldn't be filming them setting the cop car on fire either. Margaret 1:06:43 No. No Elle 1:06:44 And also, that's a shitty friend because they've just implicated you in conspiracy, right? Margaret 1:06:49 Yeah. Elle 1:06:50 Friends don't implicate friends. Margaret 1:06:53 It's a good, it's a good rule. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, I that's not entirely where I immediately expected to go with Threat Modeling. But I feel like we've covered an awful lot. Is there something? Is there something...Do you have any, like final thoughts about Threat Modeling, and as relates to the stuff that we've been talking about? Elle 1:07:18 I think that you know, the thing that I do really want to drive home. And that honestly does come back to your point about clandestinity being a trap is that, again, the purpose of threat modeling is to first understand, you know, what risks you're trying to protect against, and then figure out how to do what you're accomplishing in a way that minimizes risk. But the important piece is still doing whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish, whether that's movement building, or something else. And so there there is, there is a calculation that needs to be made in terms of what level of risk is acceptable to you. But if if, ultimately, your risk threshold is preventing you from accomplishing whatever you're trying to accomplish, then it's time to take a step back, recalculate and figure out whether or not you actually want to accomplish the thing, and what level of risk is worth taking. Because I think that, you know, again, if if you're, if your security mechanisms are preventing you from doing the thing that you're you set out to try to do, then your adversaries are already winning, and something probably needs to shift. Margaret 1:08:39 I really like that line. And so I feel like that's a decent spot, place to end on. Do. Do you have anything that you'd like to shout out? People can follow you on the internet? Or they shouldn't follow you on the internet? What? What do you what do you want to advocate for here? Elle 1:08:53 If you follow me on the internet, I'm so sorry. That's really all I can say. I'm, I am on the internet. I am a tire fire. I'm probably fairly easy to find based on my name, my pronouns and the things that I've said here today, and I can't recommend following my Twitter. Margaret 1:09:17 I won't put in the show notes then. Elle 1:09:19 I mean, you're welcome to but I can't advocate in good conscience for anyone to pay attention to anything that I have to say. Margaret 1:09:27 Okay, so go back and don't listen to the last hour everyone. Elle 1:09:31 I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do. Margaret 1:09:34 I am that's my favorite thing to do. Elle 1:09:36 I mean, you know, this is just like my opinion, you know? There are no leaders. We're all the leaders. I don't know. Do do do what you think is right. Margaret 1:09:55 Agreed. All right. Well, thank you so much. Elle 1:09:59 Thank you. I really appreciate it. Margaret 1:10:07 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, you should tell people about it by whatever means occurs to you to tell people about it, which might be the internet, it might even be in person, it might be by taking a walk, leaving your cell phones behind, and then getting in deep into the woods and saying," I like the following podcast." And then the other person will be like, "Really, I thought we were gonna make out or maybe do some crimes." But, instead you have told them about the podcast. And I'm recording this at the same time as I record the intro, and now the