Podcast appearances and mentions of joseph grenny

How victim, villain, and helpless stories sabotage our most important conversations.The hardest conversations aren't just about what you say to the other person. According to Joseph Grenny, critical conversations begin with the stories that you tell yourself.As a leading expert on business performance and communication, and a New York Times bestselling co-author of Crucial Conversations, Grenny explains that navigating high-stakes communication starts by examining the internal narratives we bring into these situations. “You and I use three consistent types of stories in these moments that don't serve us well,” he says: Victim stories (emphasizing our innocence), villain stories (demonizing the other person), and helpless stories (justifying our poor responses). "Those three kinds of stories are what amp up our emotions and justify us in our unhealthy responses," he says.In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Grenny joins Matt Abrahams to share practical strategies for mastering difficult conversations through what he calls "TLC" — truth, love, and competence. From recognizing your motives during conflict to accepting your role in creating it, he offers tools for staying focused on what you really want rather than getting hijacked by short-term emotional impulses.To listen to the extended Deep Thinks version of this episode, please visit FasterSmarter.io/premium Episode Reference Links:Joseph GrennyJoseph's Book: Crucial Conversations  Ep.105 Radical Candor: The Communication Shift That Can Transform Your CareerEp.148 Conviction and Compassion: How to Have Hard Conversations  Connect:Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart PremiumEmail Questions & Feedback >>> hello@fastersmarter.ioEpisode Transcripts >>> Think Fast Talk Smart WebsiteNewsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>> FasterSmarter.ioThink Fast Talk Smart >>> LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTubeMatt Abrahams >>> LinkedInChapters:(00:00) - Introduction (02:16) - Influence & Why It Matters (04:15) - Truth & Love: The Foundation of Accountability (06:35) - Showing You Care & Respect Others (08:19) - Recognizing Motives in High-Stakes Moment (14:13) - Managing Emotions in Crucial Conversations (20:08) - The Final Three Questions (25:24) - Conclusion    ********This episode is sponsored by Grammarly. Let Grammarly take the busywork off your plate so you can focus on high-impact work. Download Grammarly for free today Become a Faster Smarter Supporter by joining TFTS Premium.   

Tricia Bertram Gallant and David Rettinger discuss The Opposite of Cheating: Teaching for Integrity in the Age of AI on episode 568 of the Teaching in Higher Ed podcast. Quotes from the episode It is true that people cheat, and that's the reason we have rules in the first place in our lives. -David Rettinger There are always going to be social, personal, and individual pressures on us that cause us to do things that either we didn't realize were wrong, or that we perfectly well know that are wrong, but that in that moment seem like a reasonable trade off to our behavior. -David Rettinger Take care of yourself first, whatever that looks like. You're never going to help somebody else if you're not on firm ground yourself. -David Rettinger You can treat people with dignity and respect even as you're calling out their mistake. You can challenge them while being respectful. -Tricia Bertram Gallant It is important for us to remember to give grace to ourselves. -Tricia Bertram Gallant Resources The Opposite of Cheating: Teaching for Integrity in the Age of AI, by Tricia Bertram Gallant and David A. Rettinger Doing School: How We Are Creating a Generation of Stressed-Out, Materialistic, and Miseducated Students, by Denise Clark Pope The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom, by Don Miguel Ruiz Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler and Emily Gregory Authentic Assessment Phil Dawson at Deacon University How Van Gogh Informs my AI Course Policy Taking A Mosaic Approach to AI in the Writing Classroom- Episode 555: A Big Picture Look at AI Detection Tools Good Robot Podcast Forever Chemicals, Forever Consequences: What PFAS Teaches Us About AI International Center for Academic Integrity Make It Stick: The Science of Successful Learning, by Peter Brown, Mark A. McDaniel, and Henry L. Roediger Study Like a Champ, by Regan a. R. Gurung and John Dunlosky The Residence Galatea 2.2: A Novel, by Richard Powers Tulsa Oklahoma

Thinking about the best hire for your business? Look no further - it's a CFO! In this episode, Deborah sits down with Ahuva Gruen, a seasoned fractional CFO who has helped countless businesses achieve financial clarity, scalability, and success. Tune in now and discover why this role might be the game-changer your business has been waiting for! Here are the things to expect in the episode:What is a fractional CFO?The difference between a regular CFO and a fractional CFO.Why hiring a fractional CFO might be the best financial decision for your business.Common challenges that most small businesses face.Specific examples of how Ahuva helped clients improve their businesses.And much more! About Ahuva:Ahuva is a seasoned Fractional CFO with over 20 years of experience, dedicated to transforming businesses and unlocking their financial potential. Leveraging her CPA and CFO expertise, she provides clarity to entrepreneurs, helping them optimize pricing, secure financing, and eliminate obstacles. As the founder of her own business, Ahuva partners with clients as a strategic advisor, empowering them to achieve growth, profitability, and long-term success through informed financial decisions and visionary guidance. Connect with Ahuva Gruen!Website: https://www.agfinancialcpa.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ahuvagruen/ Book Recommendations:Who Not How: The Formula to Achieve Bigger Goals Through Accelerating Teamwork by Dan Sullivan and Benjamin Hardy Great at Work: The Hidden Habits of Top Performers by Morten T. Hansen Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High by Al Switzler, Ron McMillan, Joseph Grenny, Emily Gregory, Kerry Patterson   Connect with Deborah Kevin:Website: www.deborahkevin.comSubstack: https://debbykevin.substack.com/Instagram: www.instagram.com/debbykevinwriterLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deborah-kevin/Book Recommendations: https://bookshop.org/shop/storytellher Check out Highlander Press:Website: www.highlanderpressbooks.comTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@highlanderpressInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/highlanderpressFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/highlanderpress

Today, Todd sits down with Tony Acosta—real estate pro, entrepreneur, and team leader—to dig into what it really takes to lead a successful sales team. From training and building a high-performing group to becoming the kind of leader people want to follow, Tony shares what works, what doesn't, and why taking action is everything. Because let's face it—anyone can read a book or take a course, but if you never execute, you're just spinning your wheels. If you want real results, it's time to step up. Pillars of Wealth Creation 1. Ability to choose 2. Finances 3. The health, physical, and emotional state of the people living in your house Recommended Book 1. Shoe Dog By Phil Knight 2. Crucial Conversations By Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, and Ron McMillan 3. Unreasonable Hospitality By Will Guidara 4. How to Win Friends and Influence People By Dale Carnegie Tony Acosta is a real estate broker with 13+ years of experience and Director of Agent Development at The Perry Group, a top team at Real Broker. He coaches agents on scaling their businesses and created ELEVATE, a six-week training program focused on lead generation and business systems. A Forbes Real Estate Council member, TEDx speaker, and host of the How to Be a Realtor Podcast, Tony is passionate about leadership, education, and empowering real estate professionals. You can connect with Tony through social media: https://www.instagram.com/tonyacosta.co/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyeacosta/ Welcome to Pillars of Wealth Creation, where we talk about building financial freedom with a special focus on business and Real Estate. Follow along as Todd Dexheimer interviews top entrepreneurs, investors, advisers, and coaches. YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/PillarsOfWealthCreation Interested in coaching? Schedule a call with Todd at www.coachwithdex.com Listen to the audio version on your favorite podcast host: SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-650270376 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/.../pillars-of.../id1296372835... Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/.../aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZ... iHeart Radio: https://www.iheart.com/.../pillars-of-wealth-creation.../ CastBox: https://castbox.fm/.../Pillars-Of-Wealth-Creation... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0FmGSJe9fzSOhQiFROc2O0 Pandora: https://pandora.app.link/YUP21NxF3kb Amazon/Audible: https://music.amazon.com/.../f6cf3e11-3ffa-450b-ac8c...

Laurie Stewart, CEO of Peacemaker Ministries, joins Matt and John to discuss the origins of conflict and how to handle conflict. Resources Peacemaker Ministries (organization) Arbinger Institute (organization) The Colossian Forum (organization) Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny (book) The Anatomy of Peace from The Arbinger Institute (book)

Send us a textEver feel like your business can't run without you? In this episode, Madi Waggoner shares how to escape the daily grind, build a business that thrives in your absence, and finally take that well-earned break—without everything falling apart.What's Covered:✅ The #1 mistake entrepreneurs make that keeps them stuck in the day-to-day✅ How to build systems that allow your business to run without you✅ Why delegation isn't just about offloading tasks—it's about creating real freedom✅ The essential mindset shift to go from overwhelmed operator to strategic leader✅ Real-life examples of business owners who successfully stepped away without losing momentumMadi is a consultant who helps entrepreneurs fire themselves from the day-to-day so they can finally take vacation, parental leave, or a long desired sabbatical. She's partnered with more than 40 businesses across tech startups, influencers, medical professionals, course creators, and online entrepreneurs to address the problems plaguing their businesses.

"Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High"

In this episode of Orbital Convergence, co-hosts Brian Fox and Gordon Deng shift the conversation from innovation to leadership—specifically, leadership through influence. Drawing from Joseph Grenny's Influencer: The New Science to Leading Change, they explore the principles that make leadership impactful across any era. Brian and Gordon discuss what it truly means to lead, how influence drives transformation, and why the ability to inspire change is critical in government and defense. Whether you're in a leadership role or striving to make an impact from within, this episode offers valuable insights into the science of influence and the strategies that shape successful leadership.

"Water is a limited resource, and in this refinery, every gallon saved is a win for sustainability." – Juan Meneses Water is a critical resource in industrial operations, and improving efficiency is a top priority for many companies. In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O, returning guest Juan Meneses, District Manager at Nalco Water, an Ecolab Company, discusses how a Western refinery optimized its water footprint using advanced treatment technologies.  This episode is packed with insights on water conservation strategies, sustainability goals, and the role of advanced monitoring technologies like 3D TRASAR in maximizing operational efficiency while minimizing environmental impact.  Key Topics Covered:  The Challenges of Water Usage in Refineries  This refinery faced rising water costs and increasing sustainability pressures. With water sourced from the city, costs were projected to rise by 5% annually, with wastewater discharge costs climbing even faster. Finding ways to reduce water consumption while maintaining efficiency was a top priority.  Optimizing Cooling Towers for Maximum Water Efficiency  Cooling towers presented a key opportunity for conservation. The team aimed to increase cycles of concentration to reduce water waste without compromising system integrity. By using 3D TRASAR technology, they monitored real-time conditions, allowing precise adjustments to prevent scaling and corrosion.  Implementing Smart Water Treatment Strategies  To sustain higher cycles, the refinery introduced dual cathodic inhibitors and high-charge polymers, enhancing corrosion and scale control. pH adjustments ensured effective biocide performance while maintaining system reliability. This strategic shift allowed for significant reductions in water and chemical use.  Results and Lessons Learned  By increasing cycles from 5.5 to 9.3, the refinery saved 52 million gallons of water annually while cutting wastewater discharge and chemical consumption. The biggest takeaway? Real-time monitoring and proactive pH control are essential for maintaining efficiency at higher cycles.  Best Practices for Industrial Water Optimization  Collaboration between plant operators and water treatment professionals is key. Regular monitoring, data-driven decision-making, and advanced automation tools can help refineries maximize efficiency while meeting sustainability goals. Water conservation is good for business and the environment. Could your facility save millions of gallons? Explore advanced water treatment strategies today. Learn more at ScalingUpH2O.com. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!  Timestamps   02:14 – Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals   08:02 – Water You Know with James McDonald  10:20 – Interview with returning guest Juan Meneses, District Manager at Nalco Water about Western Refinery Water Efficiency   11:06 – The biggest water challenges faced by the refinery  12:11 – Strategies for optimizing water footprint and sustainability goals  14:07 – How 3D TRASAR and modeling software improve water efficiency  24:50 – Water savings achieved: 52 million gallons saved  29:21 – Best practices for communicating water optimization goals  Quotes  “The way that we can reduce water in the cooling tower is to increase cycle of concentration.” – Juan Meneses "A good implementation of this project, if you can, with good and advanced monitoring and automation. You can optimize your chemical treatment by modeling the condition.” - Juan Meneses “About the teamwork, foster collaboration and communication with the customer are key component of that and focus on sustainability.” - Juan Meneses   Connect with Juan Meneses  Phone: 337.309.9619  Email: jmeneses@ecolab.com  Website: Reinventing the Way Water is Managed | Nalco Water  LinkedIn: Juan A. Meneses | LinkedIn  Click HERE to Download Episode's Discussion Guide    Guest Resources Mentioned   CH 2029 Western Refinery Optimizes Water Footprint Using 3D Trasar Technology for Cooling Modeling Tools paper  Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, Second Edition: Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler   Good Profit: How Creating Value for Others Built One Of The World's Most Successful Company by Charles Koch  The 4 Disciplines of Execution: Achieving Your Wildly Important Goals by Sean Covey (Author), Chris McChesney (Author), Jim Huling (Author)      Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)   IWC (International Water Conference)      Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses  Submit a Show Idea  The Rising Tide Mastermind   405 Cooling Water Innovation: Harnessing Wastewater for Sustainability 164 The One With Chris McChesney    Water You Know with James McDonald  Question: What effect will the water temperature have on softener backwash during regeneration?    2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we've listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.   

What do you do when things go wrong–when you're hurt, insulted, offended or let-down? How do you move forward without falling apart? This week, we're talking about the importance of handling conflict, and we're exploring the steps that lead to reconciliation. The Process: 1. Know your motive.2. Know your story.3. Share your motive.4. Share your story.5. Listen to their story.6. Own your part in the story.7. Ask for what you want.8. Take action.List adapted from: Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler and Emily Gregory ➡️

In this episode of Scaling UP! H2O podcast, host Trace Blackmore dives into a conversation with Juan Meneses, District Manager at Nalco Water, An Ecolab Company to explore a groundbreaking innovation in industrial water treatment. Discover how Juan and his team harnessed treated wastewater to transform cooling tower systems, achieving a remarkable $4 million reduction in operational costs while championing sustainability. This episode highlights the challenges, strategies, and ultimate success of using treated sewage effluent—a game-changer for industries navigating water scarcity and operational efficiency. What You'll Learn in This Episode The Steps to Integrating Treated Wastewater into Cooling Tower Systems  Discover how Juan Meneses and his team approached the integration of treated sewage effluent into a refinery's cooling tower system. Learn about the initial assessments of water quality, the detailed planning process, and the role of collaboration between industry experts and stakeholders in ensuring a seamless transition. From analyzing water chemistry to implementing treatment solutions, this episode walks you through every critical step. How to Overcome Challenges Like Biofouling, Corrosion, and Scaling  Integrating wastewater into industrial systems is no easy task. Juan Meneses shares the real-world obstacles his team encountered, such as high organic content, ammonia levels, and variations in water quality. Hear about the innovative strategies they used to combat biofilm formation, prevent corrosion caused by harsh chemicals, and minimize scale buildup—all while maintaining system reliability and efficiency.   The Pivotal Role of Automation in Water Quality Management  Learn how advanced monitoring systems and real-time data collection were game changers in this project. Juan explains the importance of automated sensors in detecting water quality fluctuations, adjusting chemical dosages, and ensuring that all parameters remained within operational limits. This segment highlights how technology can simplify complex processes and prevent costly errors.   Real-World Examples of Achieving Sustainability Goals and Operational Excellence  This case study is a testament to the power of innovation in addressing both environmental and business challenges. Juan outlines how his team's efforts not only reduced freshwater usage and wastewater discharge but also saved the refinery $4 million in operational costs. This section offers practical insights into balancing sustainability objectives with financial performance, showcasing what's possible with a forward-thinking approach. This episode demonstrates how innovative water reuse strategies can align cost savings, operational reliability, and environmental stewardship. Stay engaged, keep learning, and continue scaling up your knowledge!  Timestamps  05:07 - Upcoming Events for Water Treatment Professionals  09:23 - Interview with Juan Meneses, District Manager from NalCo Water 15:18 – About the case study: using treated wastewater in cooling towers  20:32 – Automation and Innovation in Water Treatment 33:05 – Lesson learned and reflections from the project 42:42 – Water You Know with James McDonald Connect with Juan Meneses  Phone: 337.309.9619 Email: jmeneses@ecolab.com Website: Reinventing the Way Water is Managed | Nalco Water LinkedIn: Juan A. Meneses | LinkedIn Click HERE to Download Episode's Discussion Guide Guest Resources Mentioned  IWC (International Water Conference)    Freakonomics Radio Podcast  Today, Explained Podcast  CH 1979 Innovation Synergies Enable Reliable Wastewater Reuse in Cooling Towers At 4 million Lower TCO paper Good Profit: How Creating Value for Others Built One Of The World's Most Successful Company by Charles Koch  Crucial Conversations Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High, Second Edition: Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler  The 4 Disciplines of Execution: Achieving Your Wildly Important Goals by Sean Covey (Author), Chris McChesney (Author), Jim Huling (Author)  Scaling UP! H2O Resources Mentioned  AWT (Association of Water Technologies)    Scaling UP! H2O Academy video courses Submit a Show Idea The Rising Tide Mastermind  The 12 Week Year: Get More Done in 12 Weeks than Others Do in 12 Months 164 The One With Chris McChesney Water You Know with James McDonald Question: What do you call sections in a water system with low or no flow due to system design and/or operation?   2025 Events for Water Professionals  Check out our Scaling UP! H2O Events Calendar where we've listed every event Water Treaters should be aware of by clicking HERE.

Hey, friends!

The Canadian Hydrogen Association's President and CEO, Ivette Vera-Perez, in conversation with Francis Bradley about the hydrogen industry in Canada today, what the value chain looks like, the rainbow of different types of hydrogen, and what we are using hydrogen for, including mobility. They also talk about the future of hydrogen and the need for investment tax credits, regulatory alignment, and infrastructure development to support hydrogen's role in decarbonization and economic growth. They close the conversation with a recommendation for a book to add to the Flux Capacitor Book Club. Canadian Hydrogen AssociationIvette Vera-Perez at the Canadian Hydrogen AssociationIvette Vera-Perez on LinkedInBook recommendation:Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High, by Kerry Patterson, Stephen R. Covey, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan and Al Switzler

In this episode, we dive into "Crucial Conversations" by Patterson, Grenny, McMillan, and Switzler, exploring essential techniques for handling high-stakes discussions in both professional and personal settings.Whether you're a team leader, product manager, or looking to improve your interpersonal skills, this episode offers practical strategies to transform challenging conversations into opportunities for growth and collaboration.Listen as we discuss:Creating safety in dialogueManaging emotions and storiesThe STATE method for persuasive speakingDecision-making processes in teamsReferences:Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al SwitzlerThinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel KahnemanEmpathy: A Handbook for Revolution by Roman KrznaricThe Lean Startup by Eric RiesINSPIRED: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love by Marty Cagan#CrucialConversations #CommunicationSkills #LeadershipDevelopmentcrucial conversations, communication skills, leadership, team management, conflict resolution, emotional intelligence, decision making, agile, product management, workplace communication= = = = = = = = = = = =YouTube= = = = = = = = = = = =Subscribe on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8XUSoJPxGPI8EtuUAHOb6g?sub_confirmation=1Applehttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/agile-podcast/id1568557596Spotifyhttps://open.spotify.com/show/362QvYORmtZRKAeTAE57v3Amazonhttps://music.amazon.com/podcasts/ee3506fc-38f2-46d1-a301-79681c55ed82/Agile-Podcast= = = = = = = = = = = =Toronto Is My Beat (Music Sample)By Whitewolf (Source: https://ccmixter.org/files/whitewolf225/60181)CC BY 4.0 DEED (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/deed.en)

Audiologists and practice owners often avoid tough conversations about underperformance or conflict, leading to unresolved issues and workplace tension. Addressing these challenges is key to improving team dynamics, retaining talent, and fostering practice growth. After a decade in corporate, Gene Hammett built a $7 million online business, only to lose it all when a deal went sour. From this setback, he discovered a passion for coaching CEOs to develop strong leaders and address limitations. In this episode, Gene joins Kevin to share actionable strategies to enhance leadership and navigate tough conversations for a thriving audiology practice. Gene Hammett is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and executive coach who helps founders and CEOs develop strong leaders at every level. Over 1 million business leaders have used his advice to improve their leadership and grow their companies. In this episode, Kevin and Gene will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (00:46) Pivoting from Corporate Life to Entrepreneurship (01:51) Growing His Sports Tour Business from Zero to $7 Million (03:14) Rebuilding From Scratch After Losing Everything (05:35) His Journey to Becoming a Top Leadership Coach  (10:50) Transforming Leadership Styles for Better Results (14:35) Why Mission-Driven Practices Attract and Retain Top Talent (16:08) The Power of Tough Conversations in Team Growth (23:08) How Leadership Styles Impact Tough Conversations (26:25) Mastering Difficult Conversations in Four Simple Phases (32:08) Gene's Straightforward Guide to Leading with Impact (34:50) The Framework for Handling Tough Conversations (40:20) Why Every Hard Talk Needs a Follow-Up  (43:52) Connecting with Gene Gene Hammett is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and executive coach who helps founders and CEOs develop strong leaders at every level. After studying the leadership of fast-growing businesses on the Inc. 5000 list, he discovered strategies that help companies grow. Gene is also the founder of the Growth Think Tank podcast, which is recognized as a top resource for leaders. His work has appeared in publications like Inc., Entrepreneur, and Success magazines. Over 1 million business leaders have used his advice to improve their leadership and grow their companies. Connect with Gene: Gene's Website: https://genehammett.com/  Gene's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genehammett/  Resources Mentioned: Gene's Book, How to Have Tough Conversations: The Framework for Great Leaders to Say What Needs to Be Said When the Pressure Is On: https://www.amazon.com/How-Have-Tough-Conversations-Framework-ebook/dp/B0D7WFLZL5  Start With Why by Simon Sinek: https://www.amazon.com/Start-Why-Simon-Sinek/dp/1591844517/  Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity by Kim Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509  Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, et al: https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-Conversations-Tools-Talking-Stakes/dp/B09BK342ZW/  The Only Thing: If you're an audiologist and want to grow your practice – we've got a FREE, expert guide to help you achieve your goals. It's called The Only Thing.  This expert guide will show you how to increase new patient calls by 5 to 57 a month, schedule more new patients each week, help more people, and increase revenue. It's the best resource I know for growing your audiology practice. Get your copy for free at http://medpb.com/mastery

Robert Finan: Why Agile Teams Need the Right Support, And How We Can Help Them Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Robert shares a story about what happens when teams lack management support and the right environment to succeed. He emphasizes the importance of 1-on-1 conversations, addressing individual resistance, and focusing on what can be changed. Slowly building the right environment for our teams - Robert explains how - is how we help them succeed! Featured Book of the Week: Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny et al. Robert recommends Crucial Conversations, which offers practical tools for handling high-stakes conversations in both personal and professional contexts. As facilitators, Scrum Masters can use this book to address situations where team members feel threatened, fostering better communication and collaboration. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]

This is a free preview of a paid episode. To hear more, visit www.ktfpress.comIn this month's bonus episode, we talk all about why and how to have difficult conversations about important political subjects with people who disagree with you. We get into:- What are goals are in these kinds of conversations- Strategies for regulating our emotions and achieving those goals- The power dynamics to keep in mind when having these conversations- And afterward, our segment Which Tab Is Still Open?, diving into a fascinating conversation with Rev. William Barber about what Democrats could gain if they paid attention to poor votersYou can find the video of the portion of this episode that we recorded live at ktfpress.com.Mentioned in the episode- Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell- The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas- Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero- When Helping Hurts by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert- Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Shila Heen- Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, and Ron McMillan- John Blake's interview with Rev. William BarberCredits- Follow KTF Press on Facebook, Instagram, and Threads- Follow host Jonathan Walton on Facebook Instagram, and Threads.- Follow host Sy Hoekstra on Mastodon.- Our theme song is “Citizens” by Jon Guerra – listen to the whole song on Spotify.- Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess – follow her and see her other work on Instagram.- Editing by Sy Hoekstra- Transcripts by Joyce Ambale and Sy Hoekstra.- Production by Sy Hoekstra and our incredible subscribersTranscriptIntroduction[An acoustic guitar softly plays six notes, the first three ascending and the last three descending – F#, B#, E, D#, B – with a keyboard pad playing the note B in the background. Both fade out as Jonathan Walton says “This is a KTF Press podcast.”]Sy Hoekstra: Hey everyone, it's Sy. Quick note before we start. Stay tuned after this recording of our conversation, which we did on Substack Live because we recorded our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, separately due to some time constraints we had. Thanks so much for listening, and the episode officially starts now.Jonathan Walton: If your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place, because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day.[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Jonathan Walton: Welcome to Shake the Dust, seeking… [long pause] Jesus, confronting injustice. I am Jonathan Walton [laughter], and we're live on Substack.Sy Hoekstra: Jonathan starts the live by forgetting our tagline [laughter].Jonathan Walton: It's true. It's true. So welcome to Shake the Dust. My name is Jonathan. We are seeking justice, confronting injustice. See, this is live. Live is hard. Go for it, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you for being here, Sy.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, sure. I'm Sy Hoekstra, that's Jonathan Walton.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live, if you couldn't tell. This is a live recording of our podcast. We are gonna ease into it, and then we'll be good. Don't worry.Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We're doing this live as a recording, and then we will be releasing the audio and the video later to our paid subscribers. So if you're listening, welcome. Alright, we are gonna be talking today about a subject that comes to us from a listener that came in as a question on our finale episode, but it came in a couple hours too late, and I missed it before we started recording. But it was such an interesting question that we decided to make a whole episode out of it. So thank you to Ashley, our listener, who sent this in. We will be talking about basically, how to regulate yourself and actually strategies you can employ when having difficult conversations with people you disagree with on important subjects, the power dynamics and everything all around it, and literally just how to do it, which is actually kind of something that a lot of people have been asking us.Ashley comes at it from a really good angle that we'll be talking about too. So we'll get to all that in a moment. We will also be talking, as we usually do in our episodes, doing our segment, Which Tab Is Still Open, diving a little bit deeper into one of the recommendations from our newsletter. And this week, we will be talking about a really great interview with William Barber, the Reverend William Barber, and basically how poor people can but often don't affect elections because of the ways that the Republican and Democratic parties approach poor people. So we will get into all that in a second. I will apologize for my voice still sounding like I have a cold. It sounds like I have a cold because I have a cold, and [laughter] I have the eternal fall-winter, father of a two year old in daycare cold [laughs]. So bear with me, and I appreciate your patience. Before we get into all this, Jonathan Walton, go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, if you are listening live, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for tuning in, and I just wanna encourage you to become a paid subscriber of our Substack. If you do that, you get access to video and audio of this conversation afterwards, you also get bonus episodes and our entire archive of bonus episodes as well. Plus, when you become a monthly paid subscriber, you also get access to our monthly Zoom chats, and you'll be able to comment on our posts, communicate with us on a regular basis. And so that would be great. Plus, you'll be supporting everything that we can do to help Christians confront injustice and follow Jesus. And so that's particularly in the areas of political discipleship and education, as we try to leave behind the idols of the American church. And for everybody, if you do listen to this, please go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you might listen, and give us a five-star rating. If you wanna give less than that, you can also but you can keep that to yourself.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Thank you so much for your support and encouragement. We really appreciate it.Sy Hoekstra: Four stars and below, give us those ratings inside your head [laughter]. Also, if you have any questions and you are listening live, feel free to put them in the chat. We can answer those as we go. And alright, Jonathan, let's jump right into it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: We got this question from Ashley. She comes at it from an interesting angle. I wanted to talk about the things that she doesn't wanna do, and then get into her questions. So she said, when she's talking about people that she disagrees with on important political or religious subjects, there's a couple of things that she did growing up. One of which was the only reason that you're engaging in these conversations as a conservative Evangelical, is to change people into you [laughs]. Is to win people over to your point of view and make them the same as you. That's your goal. Then she said she kind of grew up a little bit, went to college, became what she called it, an ungrounded liberal arts major [laughs] and started getting into what she described as the sort of millennial slash Gen Z cusp age that she is.Just it being cool to shut people down and just defeat them, destroy them in an argument. So she's just like, “I don't wanna be there just to make people into me. I don't wanna be there just to destroy people.” But she said now she finds herself in a position where most of the people around her largely agree with her on important subjects, and she just doesn't spend a lot of time around people who don't. So just kind of wants to know how to get into that, because she thinks it is important. She was saying some political organizers really convinced her that it is important to be doing that. And she just wants to know how you regulate yourself, how you go about it, and all that.What's the Goal When You're Having Difficult Disagreements on Important Subjects?Sy Hoekstra: And although that question was really interesting, and we're gonna jump into the actual strategies, I think Jonathan, the place to start is when you're having these conversations with someone, if you're not trying to cut them off, if you're not trying to turn them into you, and you're not trying to shut them down, what are you trying to do? What's the actual goal of what these conversations are? And for those of you who might be listening live or listening to us for the first time, this is Jonathan's wheelhouse [laughter]. This is right in what Jonathan does all the time. So Jonathan, go ahead, tell us what is the actual goal of these conversations?Jonathan Walton: Yes. So I wanna start off by saying that none of this is easy.Sy Hoekstra: For sure.Jonathan Walton: I'm giving you a cookie cutter, boxed up wonderful version of a cake that you don't… Like all the ingredients are in there, all you need to do is add water. And life is not like that.Sy Hoekstra: Yes.The Goal Should Be Connection, not Cutting off or ColonizingJonathan Walton: But if you're not trying to colonize someone or make them into you, and you're not trying to cut someone off just because they disagree with you, or you're not trying to cancel them, shut them down, hold them accountable in a way that leaves them feeling like a puddle of ignorance in front of you, then what you're actually trying to do is connect with them. And so I think that God made us to be in relationship with other people, and being in relationship with other people means that we're able to sit before them, to see and be seen, without trying to consume or control the other person. It's impossible to connect with someone that you're trying to control. It's impossible to connect with someone, to love someone that you're trying to consume, like to be enmeshed with and turn into yourself.And so I think one of the ways that we, what we're actually trying to do, instead of colonizing someone, instead of consuming someone, instead of controlling someone, is to connect with them. And so the foundational question that we need to ask ourselves when we're in conversations with someone who we disagree with is, “What do we want from the relationship?” So, yeah, we want to connect. And then we ask ourselves the deeper questions, hey, Ashley, [laughter] a deeper question of, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?” So for example, I know a couple. They voted differently in the election.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Than each other, or than you?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Than each other.Sy Hoekstra: Okay.Jonathan Walton: I don't know if how I voted will even come up, because that wasn't the premise of the conversation.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: But this couple, their actual argument is not about like you voted for Trump and you wanted him not to vote for him. The actual thing is, how do we love each other amidst a disagreement? Because they don't know how to hold the reality that I believe something different from you and we can still remain connected. The only option they have is to consume the other person or calling them out, “You need to think like me.” Or be consumed, “I need to think like you.” Or, “Do we need to get a divorce?” Like, no. It is possible to remain connected to someone while being in disagreement, even vehement disagreement. I think what we actually need to agree on is, how do we wanna be connected? I think that's the foundational question.Connection Versus ConversionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I like that a lot. It's funny, when we were talking about this, this did not… I don't do emotional health and relationship discipleship and all that kind of thing that Jonathan does all the time. And your answer did not immediately occur to me [laughs]. I was thinking about Ashley's question, and I was like, “Wait a minute, what is the goal? I don't even know.” Anyways, I think the framework of connection is super, super helpful, and I appreciate you laying it out for us. And it's helpful for a couple of reasons. One is, it roots us in actual relationships, meaning your real life circumstances are what's guiding you. Your goals in your relationships is what is guiding you in how you approach the question of how you have these conversations.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then it's something that is sort of an antidote to that evangelical tendency to try to convert everyone, like you were talking about.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Meaning, it's like, if you have a separate goal, then you can leave those other goals behind. But those other goals, if you don't have a new goal, those goals always stick. How you were raised is not going to change or move or be as prominent in your mind if you're not replacing it with something else.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, yeah.Sy Hoekstra: It's something that you can focus on, that you can actually do. Meaning you can make as much of an effort as you can to connect with someone, and they might not work, but you know that you did everything that you could, as opposed to trying to change someone. If your goal is changing people or defeating people, that never works. It very rarely works. And this is a weird thing that a lot of, I've realized growing up in evangelical churches, you couldn't face this directly, the fact that the overwhelming attempts that you made to evangelize someone didn't work [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Right.Sy Hoekstra: That was just a reality that you had to ignore. The vast majority of the people that you tried, they ignored you and walked on their way. And you couldn't just stop and go like, “Maybe the thing that I'm offering them is actually not all that attractive [laughs]. Maybe the church or the community or whatever, is getting in the way of…” That stuff you couldn't face. You had to believe that you had the best way, and you had to change people, or you had to shut them down. You had to shut down your opponents if you were talking about, atheists or whatever. And that stuff, it leads to constant anxiety, because you don't control the outcome, but you want to.You feel like you have to control the outcome, but you do not control the outcome. And when it comes to connection, again, you don't control the outcome, but the goal is that you attempt, you do everything that's in your power to attempt to reach your goal of connection with this person.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And then it also filters out the people that you don't need to have a connection with [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You don't have to respond to trolls. You know what I'm saying? You don't have to convert everyone. Because you're not trying to do all those things, it takes a lot of pressure off you. But I'm sorry, you were trying to say something. Go ahead.Jonathan Walton: Well, no, I think just to give some other resources, I'm pulling from Disarming Leviathan by Caleb Campbell. I'm pulling from Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas. I'm pulling from Emotionally Healthy Spirituality by Pete Scazzero. I'm pulling from Difficult Conversations. There's like, Crucial Conversations and Difficult Conversations and I get them mixed up.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: And also I'm pulling from When Helping Hurts. Because, oftentimes too, When Helping Hurts, I think it's really good, because we can start out with really good intentions, with trying to do something, quote- unquote, good for someone, when I think in reality what Sy was saying is true. We can only control what we desire, how we communicate that desire, and then pursuit of that desire.There is Vulnerability in Pursuing Connection as a GoalJonathan Walton: And then the other person actually gets to respond to that. And what's difficult about being vulnerable in connecting is that if you're trying to convert someone or control someone or colonize someone, they are rejecting a message or an idea. Or is it whereas if you are trying to connect with someone, you could feel rejected.And I think it's easier to try and persuade someone, or convince someone of an idea, rather than it is to connect with you as a person. I've been rejected by people, not just romantically [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: That too, though.Jonathan Walton: And it hurts. That as well. It's true. Tears.Sy Hoekstra: Sorry [laughter].Jonathan Walton: But one of the things is… No, it's cool. It's alright. Things worked out, praise God. But I think there's a vulnerability in, let's say I'm having a conversation with someone and they say, “Hey, Jonathan, I don't actually believe that police reform should happen. I think it's a few bad apples.” I have a few ways to go in that conversation. I could say, “Hey. Have you seen these statistics from this magazine and these FBI reports?” And go down deep into why Memphis is rejecting federal oversight. I could do that. Or I could say, “Oh, I feel afraid when you say that, because the results of that are, I'm afraid to walk outside my house because there aren't people actively pushing for reforms in the police department that occupies my neighborhood.”And that is vulnerability, because they could then invalidate my fears with their response, or whatever the thing is, but I think that that's the costly work of following Jesus in those moments.You Don't Need to Have Conversations with People Whose Goals Are Not ConnectionSy Hoekstra: Yeah. And just one more note on the goal, because we're starting to get into how these conversations actually work. But I did just wanna say one more thing about the overall goal of connection first before we move into that, just because I think this one is important. Especially for people who do ministry work of some kind, or talk about the kind of things that we talk about publicly, is if your goal is connection and the other person's goal is not connection, that's another reason that you don't have to talk to them [laughs]. Meaning, here's what I'm talking about here. I've seen you, Jonathan, in situations with people who do the kind of classic Christian thing when they disagree with something you're saying in public. They come to you and they say, “Hey, I've heard you talking about, let's say, police brutality. And I have some thoughts, I was wondering if we could just talk about it. Could we set up some time to have a Zoom?”And I've seen you go like, say to this person in not so many words basically, “I don't actually think that your goal is to have a conversation right now. I think you're upset with what I'm saying and you want to try and change me. Is that correct?”Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: You just said that to them, and not rudely. You put it in kind words, but you're just like, “Am I right in thinking that that's really what you want here?” And if they can't say no, then you will say, “Okay, I'm sorry. I don't really think I have time for this,” [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And move on. Which is something that I don't think a lot of ministers feel the need to do. But if someone is cutting off the possibility of connection from the jump, and all they're saying is, “I want to change you,” or they're refusing to not say that all they want is to change you, [laughs] you don't have to talk to them. You have no responsibility to talk to that person because you don't have a responsibility to get into an argument with anyone. Even as a pastor. Your responsibility is to shepherd people and to lead people, and if our conversation is just going to be an argument, you don't have to talk to them. You may still want to, everything I say is subject to your personal relationships with people and your individual circumstances, but that's an option, and I want more people to know that [laughs], because I think a lot of people spend a lot of time trying to just win arguments when they don't need to be having them.Winning Arguments Is Not What Leads to RepentanceJonathan Walton: Yeah. And also too, I think we've misidentified what the fruit of a won argument is.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: So for example, if I preach a sermon, or I have a conversation with a small group of people and I give a call to faith, and someone decides to follow Jesus, I did not win an argument. They're not saying I have the best ideas, or I presented things in a really compelling way, none of that is happening. What's happening is the Holy Spirit is working within them for them to respond in some way. It's the kindness of God that leads to repentance. The Gospel is the power and transformation. I can't say, “You know what? What I drew on that napkin, or what I put in that card, when the PowerPoint slide opened and everybody went, ooh,” like, no. That was not the power. It is the power of God that draws people nigh into himself.Sy Hoekstra: Nigh unto himself [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. KJV baby. KJV [laughter].How Do We Achieve Connection in Difficult Conversations?Sy Hoekstra: So let's get into then the actual strategies and kind of the meat of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: That's it. Let's get into, how do you regulate yourself and what do you actually do to achieve the goal of connection?We Have to Know Ourselves to Connect with OthersJonathan Walton: Yeah, so I think the first thing is that we can't know other people unless we know ourselves. So for example, if… let's say I was having a conversation over the weekend with someone, and they said to me, “Well, I can't believe they would think that way.” And then I said, “Well, if I were in your situation, I would be pretty angry at that response. Are you upset? Do you feel angry?” I have to know, and be willing to name that I would be angry. I have to know, and be willing to imagine, like how to empathize. Like I'm listening to them, then I wanna empathize with how they're feeling, and then ask them, “Does that resonate with you?” To build some sort of emotional connection so that we stay grounded in them as an individual and not stepping up to the argument. Like “Oh, yeah. Absolutely, what they did was wrong.”I don't wanna participate in condemning other people either. I wanna connect with this person. We could commiserate around what happened, but I think we should prioritize what is happening for the person right in front of me, not just rehashing what happened to them. You know what I mean? Like figure out what's going on. So I think we have to know ourselves to be able to know other people, which includes that emotional awareness and intelligence. And then I think after that, we should affirm what's true about that person. And then, if we've done that, then be able to ask some questions or share our own perspective.Sy Hoekstra: Or what's true about what they're saying.Jonathan Walton: Yes, what's true about what they're saying, yeah. And then be able to lean in there. And if there is an opportunity and the person desires to hear what you think about it, then that's great, but I guarantee you, they will not wanna hear about what you're saying if you don't connect with them first. And so creating or building a foundation of trust that you're not trying to just convert them or consume them or colonize them, but you are trying to connect requires that first part. So slowing down, then knowing how we feel, and then being able to connect around that level is a great place to start.Connect with Whatever Is True in What the Other Person Is SayingSy Hoekstra: Can you tell us what finding what's true and what someone is saying and then affirming that value, what does that actually sound like?Jonathan Walton: Yes, absolutely. So let's go to a different script. There was a woman that had a conversation with me and was very upset that Black people could vote for Trump. This was a racially assigned White woman saying these things. And she was, I mean, raising her voice very loud, and so I said my goal… I did actually speak over her. I said, “So my goal in this conversation is for us as a group to remain connected and aware of each other and ourselves. What is your goal in what you're saying?” And I think that kind of threw cold water in her face because she didn't know what to do with that. And so she slowed down, then she said, “Well, I don't know. I haven't processed anything,” that was kind of what she blurted out.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I knew that, actually [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I said, “It's great that like you need… this is a space to process.” I said, “What I would love for you to do is to slow down and tell us what you want, because I don't think you want me to be angry, and that's actually how I'm feeling right now. Was that your goal, was for me to feel angry and disconnected from you?” And she goes, “Well, you shouldn't be mad at me.” I said, “I can own my feelings. I didn't say you made me angry. I said my feeling in what you're saying is anger. Is that your intention? Is that what you're trying to foster? Because I would actually like to have my emotional response match your intent.” And it was not an easy conversation, but she did say after about 15 minutes of this kind of back and forth, she said, “I wanted to just close my computer,” is what she said, “But I didn't.” And then I said, “I'm so glad you chose to stay.”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: “I'm so glad you chose to remain in our group. And to affirm again, you are valuable here, we desire your contribution and things like that.”Sy Hoekstra: And you were specifically in like a cohort that you were leading.Jonathan Walton: And I think it is hard to move towards someone who… Yeah, I was leading. I was leading. And everybody else was silent. They were not saying anything, but I had follow up conversations with one person after that, who said they were very grateful that I did that, because they were like, “I didn't know that you could be patient like that with someone so animated.” They were like, “I don't understand how you were calm in that situation.” I said, “Well, I was calm because I knew who I was. I was facilitating the conversation. I was leading the dialogue.” And I said, “When I'm with my mom,” not my mom, my mom passed away. “But if I was with my dad or my brothers in that conversation, I would have to do the same thing, but it will require more work because of the emotional history that's there. This history of my family and stuff under the bridge.”So each relationship is gonna bring with it its own porcupine quills, if you will, but that doesn't mean our steps change. I think our goal is to love our neighbor as ourselves. And if we don't know ourselves, we can't love our neighbors. So in the way that we would want patience and want grace and want respect, I think we need to extend that as best as we possibly can by trying to build a connection.Sy Hoekstra: And if you're talking about, I think that's really good for a discipleship situation. Anybody who disciples people, I hope you just learned something from that story [laughs]. But if you're having, by the way, Jonathan, I've noticed as we're talking, there's a very long delay. So I apologize.Jonathan Walton: No worries.Sy Hoekstra: I just interrupted you with something that was related to something you said like three sentences later, I'm sorry [laughs].Jonathan Walton: You're all good [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: So I think when it comes to a political issue, if you're talking to someone who's saying something that you find very hurtful or very upsetting or whatever, which is where I think a lot of these questions come up for people. For a lot of people it's, “How do I talk to a Trump supporter?” That's kind of the question.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And then, like Jonathan said, it's going to be very hard. It's going to depend on your relationship with that person. And this work can be hard. It's very hard to get people to talk about their emotions, but that's what we need to do when somebody's talking… if they're being very anti-immigrant. You need to find a way into how they're communicating and what they're saying as angry as they are, whatever. An underlying thing might be, “I feel insecure about the economy of our country, I feel insecure about my job. I feel like I'm not gonna be able to provide because somebody's gonna undercut me in wages or whatever.” All that stuff. And the way to connect with that person is to say, “That makes sense, that feeling. And if I felt that that was happening to me, I would also be insecure.”Maybe it is also happening to you, you know what I mean? You have to just find a way into that feeling, and then say, “But the way that I feel secure is X, Y and Z, about…” If you want to talk about solidarity and lifting everyone up actually makes all of us more secure. You can get into the nitty gritty of immigration and economics, if you know that stuff, and say [laughs], “Actually, in general, immigrants really help us economically. And so I actually feel more secure. I know that immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens. And I trust the numbers that say that, and that comes from police departments. We can go look at your police department stats. So immigrants coming in actually lowers crime. I know that's a shock, but. So I feel more secure.” All that kind of like, you try and find a way to connect on the emotion and speak in a… What I'm doing right now is summarizing and being slightly glib, but [laughs] I think that's the best you can do.People You Connect with May Not Change, or Take a Long Time to ChangeSy Hoekstra: And I know to some people, if you have a really obstinate person that feels hopeless and impossible, and I think what we're saying is you give it your best shot, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And there's nothing you can do about it not working. And it might also be something, by the way, where you talk to them now and that's the beginning of a 10-year process of them changing.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: You don't know. This is why I said that stuff's out of your hands, is what I mean. So that's where we need to find our own internal piece about it. And then, I don't know, there's a number of other thoughts I have about what you have to do to prepare for all that, like the prep work that goes into it. But do you have other thoughts about that, Jonathan?Jonathan Walton: Well, I mean, I think just all of what you said is true, and I just wanna lean into what you said about, you cannot rush the process of that relationship. Because if your relationship is broken by what you think about trans rights, then I think we need to examine what kind of relationship you had in the first place. Because I think our relationships have to be much more than our opinions about the latest political topic of the day. We've got to be able to have conversations with people that are deeper and contain the multitudes that a person holds, as opposed to the latest tweet or share that they had.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: We're talking with people, we're not talking with a minimally viable product that's before us like, “Do I want this or not in my life?” And so I think even in the, let's take the example, like Caleb Campbell did a great example of this immigration. If someone actually believed that they were going to be invaded, I'm making quotes with my fingers, but invaded and they're gonna lose their job and they're gonna lose their emotional and spiritual and social security, not Social Security like the actual entitlement program, but social security like their feeling of social safety, that is objectively terrifying. If that is the narrative, then we can actually connect with people around why they're afraid.And if we connect with them why they're afraid, not convince them why they shouldn't be scared, then you actually have the opportunity to share with them why they may not need to be afraid. Because, as Sy said, immigrants crime actually goes down. Immigrants actually pay billions of dollars in taxes. Immigrants actually start businesses at a higher rate than our native population. All those things, but we can't get there unless we're connected. We cannot correct people without connecting with them. So, yeah.Getting Good at Connection Takes PracticeSy Hoekstra: Yeah. I think this takes a ton of practice.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You will be bad at it at first, and that's [laughter]… So I think another part of it is you have to know why it's important to you. That's another thing, and that's a personal thing. But you have to understand why connection with someone whose political beliefs or whatever you find kind of abhorrent [laughs] is something that is important to you, that work has to be done on your own and ahead of time.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: You also have to take into account… sorry. You'll just get better at it over time. So meaning it, I'd say it's only like in the last few years that I've really been able to participate in extremely difficult conversations about politics or whatever, and just be okay [laughter], no matter what the consequence of it is. And sometimes that's still not true, depending on the relationship I have with the person, but I don't know. You've got to remember that people… actually, at the beginning I remember I told you she talked about, as a young person or as millennials and Gen Z wanting to shut people down. And I actually don't think that's a generational thing. I think that's just a young people thing.I think when I was 22 I thought it was awesome to shut people down [laughs]. And I think all the most recent, this is something I know from justice advocacy work, but all the recent neurology science basically tells us you don't have an adult brain until you're like 25 [laughter]. You don't have your impulse control, you know what I mean? It's just hard.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And it just takes time to retrain yourself to do something, It can take years. So fear not, is what I'm saying, if you think you're bad at this.Being Aware of How Much You Know about a SubjectSy Hoekstra: And then I think something that's kind of deceptively emotional is the things that don't seem emotional, like knowing your facts and being able to bow out of conversations when you don't know your facts [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: Like if you have a feeling that something's wrong, but somebody's saying something wrong, or bigoted, or whatever, but you don't have the information, A, it's gonna make you much more comfortable if you do have the information, if you've read up on it, if you know the subjects. Because you find as you dig deeper into different political issues and hot button topics, there really are only so many opinions that people have, and they're usually based on relatively shallow understandings of information. So you can know a lot of the arguments ahead of time. You can know a lot of the important facts ahead of time. You've just kind of got to pay attention and that's something that happens over time.And then if you don't know that stuff, and you try and engage anyway just based on instinct, you're gonna have a lot of times where you say stuff that you regret later [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You're gonna have a lot of times where you maybe even make up something just because you wanna be right and you wanna win.Jonathan Walton: Yes, you wanna win.Sy Hoekstra: And then bowing out and letting someone believe their terrible thing without you fighting against it, sometimes that can be really hard, but that's an emotional issue, that's something about you being…Jonathan Walton: Right. That's a feeling. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. It's always gonna be feelings, and that's why you got to have your goals clear, and whenever you can, know your stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. Adam just said something, really quick. He said, “I've literally had notification of high heart rate from my Apple watch during such conversations.”Sy Hoekstra: [laughs] Yes.Jonathan Walton: And being able to have conversations without a high heart rate notification is becoming more normal.Sy Hoekstra: Yes. Good.Jonathan Walton: Yes, that has happened to me so many times. And it's true. It's fewer, it's less than what it was before that.Sy Hoekstra: That's so funny. I don't have a smart watch, so that's never happened to me, but that's so funny. And I'm glad that it's improving for both of you [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And it's a way to track if your spiritual formation's actually forming you [laughter].Sy Hoekstra: True.Engaging in Hard Conversations with Connection as a Goal is ExhaustingSy Hoekstra: So one more thing though is, this is exhausting.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: One of the reasons it's exhausting is not just because the whole thing is hard, but the issue is no one's ever gonna come to you, again, I guess, unless you're a pastor, and say, “Hey, next Wednesday at 4:00 pm I wanna talk to you about immigration.”Jonathan Walton: Right [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: They're going to come to you, you're gonna be having a dinner, and there's gonna be a completely random out of nowhere comment that you do not expect coming and your instinct may be in that moment to get angry or to just let it pass because you don't wanna deal with right now or whatever. And all that you have to take that into account. Again, over time it'll get easier to respond to random acts of racist bigotry, whatever. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: But it is something that's hard to do for anyone, and so you need to take the exhaustion of constantly being on alert into account when you think about, how do I wanna connect with this person? Because if it's someone where you have to be on alert the whole time and ready to go at any moment [laughs], that's difficult. And that's somebody that you might need to hang out with less or whatever.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: You have to make those decisions for yourself. And so I'm just saying, be willing to take that into account. Be alert to that way that you can become exhausted. Because, again, if you're really tired and you just have a snap reaction, you can say stuff you regret later.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Yes.Sy Hoekstra: Alright, Jonathan. Do you have… Yeah, you have thoughts. Go ahead and then we'll get to...Jonathan Walton: No, I was gonna say, off all of that, I think is mitigated by asking myself, “What kind of connection do I want with this person?”Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And all of us have relationships that are not as healthy as we'd like them to be. And if my goal is not to convert someone or I don't feel this like abnormal, huge weight of this person's salvation, because that's not my responsibility, then I can say, “You know what? I just can't be with that person right now. I just can't do that.” And be able to enter into that in a healthier way, and it'll be a more loving thing.The Power Dynamics of Difficult ConversationsSy Hoekstra: Yeah, absolutely. Let's just get into, I think that's a lot of the meat of it, but let's talk about just some of the power dynamics and other things that are going on during these conversations. Jonathan, I'm happy to start if you want, but you can go ahead if you have some things you wanna flag for people.Jonathan Walton: Well, I think if we're not thinking about power dynamics then we're missing what's actually happening. So when men to women, able-bodied to disable-bodied, rich to poor, educated to uneducated. All of these things are playing all the time. So somebody's like, “Oh, you're playing the race card, or you're being ageist,” that's just the table. It's not a card. That's just the society we live in. We live in a segregated, stratified society. And so to be able to be aware of that, I think respects whether you are in the ecosystem or whether you've been lifted up by the ecosystem because of the hierarchies that we live in. I think that's just something we have to take into account of where we are and where the person that we are engaging with is or is perceived to be, then that can be a gift, just in the conversation. Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: So that's sort of like keeping in mind whether you're talking to someone who's basically [laughs] above or below you on different hierarchies, which is gonna be important. Like, if you're talking, if I as a White person am talking to a Black person about race, I have to understand the dynamics. For me, at least, what I'm thinking about is I have to be personally familiar with the stuff that Black people hear all the time [laughs], and how it is often heard, and that sort of thing. Not because I need to apply a monolithic understanding of race conversations to any individual, but just to know that that individual is probably going to hear something I say this way, or feel this way about something.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: I'm sorry about the sirens in my background. I live in Manhattan [laughter]. So I think that's one thing. But then the other way is I as a disabled person, if I'm trying to talk to an able-bodied person about disability stuff, I just need to take into account how much more tiring that's going to be, and the work that I may have to do after the conversation to process whatever terribly insulting thing was said to me [laughter].Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And I do that all the time. That's something I have to do when I get home from dropping my daughter off at daycare. It just depends on what happened on the way there, or whatever. Another thing is that the, a person you're talking to can always walk away [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: Nobody needs to be in this conversation, and that you need to be able to accept that. You need to be able to let people go the way that Jesus did when they rejected his teachings. Because if you don't do that and [laughs] you try and force them into conversations with you, again, that's what we're trying to avoid doing, is panicking about the results and trying to make somebody like you because you think the world needs to be the way that you are. That's the colonialist mindset [laughs].Jonathan Walton: Yes [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: And then I think one other thing for me is how the person… this is back on the hierarchy thing. How what somebody else is saying is affecting other people around you, or the other person that that person has to interact with. Meaning the person that you're trying to connect with might be someone, like not the person you're talking to. It might be somebody who's sitting next to you, it might be somebody who's not there.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: So that's just the other thing to keep in mind, because you might be trying to show somebody else that they have support, that's a huge thing. That's the person who you have a conversation with after your cohort call that you were talking about earlier. And it might be just like, if I'm talking to another White person and I know, actually doesn't matter if I know them or not, but if I'm talking about connection, if I know people of color who have to talk to this person and they're saying something that I think I can head off or correct in some way, then I should do that. And I should keep in mind my connection with that White person, but I've also top of mind it's gonna be the connection that I have with people of color who interact with that person too.Okay, those are my thoughts on that big question. Jonathan, do we have anything else to say about these conversations before we move to Which Tab Is Still Open?Jonathan Walton: [laughs] Well, I don't have anything more to say about that conversation. I do have two problems that our live audience will get to engage with.Sy Hoekstra: [laughs].Jonathan Walton: One is that I need to get… it's one o'clock.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And so I have a time stop.Sy Hoekstra: Right now?Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And my phone is also telling me, yeah, because I was thinking, I didn't know we're gonna talk past one o'clock, but…Sy Hoekstra: [laughter] Well, we started like 12:15 so.Jonathan Walton: We did. We did, we did. And then my phone as we entered into this conversation is on the red.Sy Hoekstra: Is about to die. Alright, cool. So then I think what we'll do, Jonathan, is we'll record the Which Tab Is Still Open separately, and just add that to the bonus episode.Jonathan Walton: Absolutely.Sy Hoekstra: So again, everybody, if you wanna hear the recordings of this afterwards, and now I guess the extended version of this episode, become a paid subscriber at KTFPress.com, or just on, you're on Substack right now if you're listening to us. Become a paid subscriber, that would be amazing. If you wanna get our newsletter that's actually free, you can follow us on the free list and get us that way. Thank you so much for joining us today, we really appreciate it. Give us a five-star review on Apple or Spotify and we will see you next month. We do these once a month now that we're in the off season. And our theme song is “Citizens”, by Jon Guerra. Our podcast art is by Robyn Burgess. Joyce Ambale does the transcripts. I'm doing the editing right now and the production of this show, along with our paid subscribers. Thank you all so much for joining us, and we will hopefully see you next month or on the paid list.Jonathan Walton: Yep, bye.Sy: Bye.[the intro piano music from “Citizens” by Jon Guerra plays briefly and then fades out.]Which Tab Is Still Open?: Rev. William Barber and Poor VotersSy Hoekstra: And now this is the separate recording of Which Tab Is Still Open. We're gonna dive a little bit deeper into one of the articles from the newsletter that Jonathan brought up recently. Jonathan, why don't you tell us about the article, and we'll get into a little discussion about it.Jonathan Walton: Yes. So our good friend, John Blake, award winning journalists and former guest on this podcast interviewed Reverend Dr William Barber on his thoughts after the election. It was one of the most interesting things I read post-election, because Dr Barber has a perspective most politicians and pundits just don't. He takes a perspective of poor people seriously, like Jesus [laughter]. And so one of the things he argues was that about 30 million poor people who are eligible voters usually don't vote because neither party is addressing the issues that are important to them, like minimum wage, affordable health care, strengthening unions, etc.There was talk about strengthening unions, but not in the ways that communicate about the needs and priorities of low wage and poor workers. Republicans mostly blame poor people for their poverty, that is a consistent thing over the last 60 years. And Democrats ignore them altogether because they see them not as a viable voting block to mobilize, we should get middle class voters, which is not the same as the working poor. Barber has a history of successfully organizing multiracial coalitions of poor working class people in North Carolina to make real difference in elections. So it's not just a theoretical thing, like you can actually win elections by doing what MLK did, which Barber is in the tradition of you can have a multicultural coalition of impoverished or economically impoverished, marginalized people in the United States and actually have and hold power in the country.So even as Kamala Harris lost in November in North Carolina, voters elected a Democratic Governor and Attorney General and got rid of the veto-proof majority in the state legislature, even with all of the nonsensical gerrymandering that exist there. So Sy, what are your thoughts on all this?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. I'm very happy that somebody in the mainstream news is actually talking about this [laughs]. That's one thing. I just haven't heard... This is one of those things where if somebody, if the Democrats got this right, they could win a lot more. I don't know how much more, Reverend Barber is very optimistic about it. I haven't dug into the numbers the way that he has as a political organizer, but he basically says if you swing like 10 percent of the poor vote in any direction in many states, and you could change a whole lot of stuff.Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: I mean, you can read the article for his exact arguments. But it is definitely true that we don't address poor voters any real way, like we get stuck on, I've talked about this before, the bias toward, quote- unquote, real America, which sort of amounts to working and middle class White people and really does not address actually impoverished people. And the average, Reverend Barber is very sensitive to this, which I think is why he's effective, is the average welfare recipient in the United States today is still White. That hasn't changed. Welfare recipients are disproportionately Black and Brown. But the demographics of this country are such that you can be disproportionately high as a racial minority, but White people are still gonna be the majority of the welfare recipients.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And the potential interest alignment between those groups has always been intentionally broken up by elites in this country. And the thing that this raises for me is our constant, throughout our whole history, our belief that basically, poor people's opinions don't matter, that poor people's interests don't matter, and maybe poor people shouldn't even be voting in the first place. We had to have a movement in this country for universal White male suffrage [laughs] in the first few decades of this country, that was a fight. And the reason was they did not want you voting originally, if you didn't own property. And the belief behind that was, if you don't have property, then you don't have a stake in society. You don't have a sufficient stake in society to, I don't know, uphold the responsibility of voting.And in a lot of different ways that bias or that bigotry, frankly, has shot through a lot of different ways that we think about economics and politics. And just the idea like, it does not make sense to start with. If anything, the people with the most stake in how the government treats them are the people with the least power, with the with the way that society is run, are going to be the people who suffer the most when society is run poorly [laughs]. And the people who have the most independent wealth and power, meaning they can, regardless of what the government is doing, they're going to be generally alright, because they are wealthy landowners, if we're talking about the beginning of this country. They're actually kind of the least interested in how society runs, and maybe the most interested in maintaining the status quo and not having things change, which I think is what we're actually talking about.I think we're actually talking about not having significant change [laughs] in our economics, when we talk about the people who have the most quote- unquote, responsibility or the most sense of responsibility for how the society goes. And I think all of that bleeds into how both parties think today, because both parties are made up of elites. And I think there was this huge and terrible reaction to the CEO of United Healthcare being assassinated. And I was reading some stuff about it that basically said, if you're talking about healthcare, which is one of the issues that William Barber brought up, I think the reason that a lot of people don't understand the anger and the glee over the fact that this guy was killed online, which there was a ton of, which I don't support.But if you're trying to understand it there's so many elites who are the healthcare CEOs themselves, the politicians who write healthcare policy for whom, the biggest problem that health insurance is ever going to be is maybe a significant amount of paperwork. Maybe you get something declined or not covered, and you have to fight a little bit and then you get it covered again. It's not something that's going to bankrupt you or kill you. But that's a reality for many, many people around the country.Jonathan Walton: Yes.Sy Hoekstra: And if it's not bankrupt or kill, it's long, grinding trauma over a long period of time.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And it's just so easy for us to lose sight of stuff like that and then not understand as a political party, why addressing those problems directly wouldn't matter. And when I say us in that case, I mean people who are economically comfortable and who have educated and are doing okay in this society. And so all this is what Barber's comments bring up for me is, he is trying to pay attention to real needs that real people have, and alert his party, the Democrats, to the fact that if they understood and paid attention to and took those needs seriously, they would have a ton of voters who nobody's counting on right now. Like there's no strategy around them.It's not you would be stealing voters from the Republicans, you would be bringing in a whole bunch of new voters and doing something that no one is expecting, and you'd be able to [laughs] actually make a big difference that way. Jonathan, if you have any thoughts or just your own responses to me, or your own thoughts.Jonathan Walton: Well, I think there's a there's a few things like, yeah, I'm grateful for John Blake and for media personalities that take the time to center the most marginalized people, because that was not the conversation. All the post mortem of the Democratic Party and the celebration of what Trump did, neither one of those things included real solutions for materially impoverished people in the United States. They were not a group of people that were, when you said, counted, it's literally they're not counted. They do not count in that way. There isn't analysis, there isn't engagement. And so that I think is deeply saddening. So I'm grateful for John Blake for highlighting it. I'm grateful for Barber for the work that he does.I think one of the things that highlights for me is the… because you use the word elite, and I think there was an essay a while ago that I read about the word elite and what it means and how we use it. Like Tucker Carlson says the elites, when in reality he is elite. Elite is Hell.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: The money that he makes, the universities that he went to, the position that he holds. Me and you are elite. We both have Ivy League educations, we both have graduate degrees. We are both financially secure, we are both educated and well connected. And the majority of, some of that, that I realize is that if I have those things I am insulated from the suffering that millions of people experience around health insurance. And because our classes in the United States are segregated and our churches are also often segregated, we are not going to have relationships with people that are struggling with these things. It's very difficult, at least for me, to live in Queens, to have conversations and relationships that are cross class.My children participate in activities that cost money. That's a proxy for a class decision. I drive, I do not take the train. That is a class communication. I live in a home and I own it, I do not rent. That's a class. I drive to a supermarket like Costco. You have to pay for a membership to be in Costco. These are all economic decisions, and there are going to be certain groups of people that I do not interact with every single day, because I have more money. And so I think if we stretch that out across the Democratic, Republican independent leadership in our country, the majority of us do not interact with people that are from a different class, higher or lower. And so we have these caricatures of what life looks like, which is why an executive can say it doesn't matter if we deny or defend or depose or delay or all the things that were written on these bullets that came from the person that killed the United Healthcare CEO.The reality is, I think we do not… I don't think, I know this, we do not prioritize the poor in this country. And to what you were saying, it's not that we don't prioritize poor and marginalized people, it's a strategic, intentional exclusion of them. So [laughs] like you said, the reality is, if you were not a wealthy land-owning White person, you were not allowed to vote or hold elected office. And so that's a reality. So each time a tier of people wanted to be included, there was an argument, there was a fight, there was war, there was violence. And so I believe that there is an opportunity that Barber is talking about too. It does not have to be violent to include people who are poor and marginalized.It's really just a decision to and the time and intentionality to do it. And I wish that the church did that. I wish that politicians did that. I wish that we did that as a society. And I recognize in my own life it is even still difficult to do because of how our society has set up invisible and very real fences between economic communities.Sy Hoekstra: And it's remarkable for you to say that in some ways. I mean, it makes sense that you would be the person to notice it, but it is remarkable in some ways for you to say it because you grew up as you've talked about many times, quite poor in the rural south.Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And you are actually directly connected to people who don't have a lot of money, right?Jonathan Walton: Right.Sy Hoekstra: And that's still your reality that your day to day life does not involve that many poor people.Jonathan Walton: Right. And that is, to be totally transparent, that is one of the hardest things about getting older and having children. When we go home, when I say home I'm thinking Brodnax.Sy Hoekstra: The small farming town in Virginia that you're from.Jonathan Walton: Yes. Where I'm from. It's exceptionally clear to me that the access that I have to resources, the decisions that I'm making each day are infused with the wealth and resources that surround me, just by virtue of the location that I live in. So we have to do really, really, really hard work to include people who are across classes in our lives, so that when we consider what we're going to do with our power, they are included in that decision. And I think Barber did a great job of explaining why that is strategically important as well.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah, so two points. One is, thank you for talking about that. For those of you who don't know, Jonathan and I are good friends. That's why I can say, “Hey Jonathan, let's talk about [laughs] your background as a poor person.”Jonathan Walton: Yeah [laughs].Sy Hoekstra: We've talked about this a ton on the show before, Jonathan is very open about it in public. And that, I actually think, hearing you talk about the tension and how your hometown is versus your new adopted home, a lot of that is actually part of the answer. Just people being willing to be totally open about their own financial circumstances, and the differences they see between places, because that is something that we hush up and we talk about, we make it shameful to talk about your money. We make it shameful for everyone to talk about their money. You're not supposed to talk about it if you're rich, you're not supposed to talk about it if you're poor [laughs]. You're basically only supposed to talk about it if you're right where the Republicans think real Americans are [laughter]. You know what I mean?Jonathan Walton: Yeah.Sy Hoekstra: And yeah, just being willing to talk about it openly and in a not ashamed way actually goes a long ways to breaking some of the taboos that hold the silence on these issues. That's one thing. The other thing is, you said at the end just now, that William Barber would argue that it is strategic to basically address the needs of the poor voters who are not voting. But earlier you said it is a strategic exclusion, or like a strategic that they're evading talking about these issues.Jonathan Walton: Oh yeah. So in the Constitution, there is a strategic exclusion of poor, marginalized, non-White-land-owning-educated-well-healed people. There's the intentional strategic exclusion of those people for the maintenance of power and dominance, right?Sy Hoekstra: Yeah.Jonathan Walton: And I think there needs to be a strategic, intentional inclusion of those people, and the intentional redistribution, and I know people hate that word, redistribution [laughs] of resources, so that people can be included in our society in a meaningful way.Sy Hoekstra: Well, Jonathan's a communist. You heard it here first.Jonathan Walton: [laughs] It's not the first time I've been accused of loving the Marx.Sy Hoekstra: Loving the… [laughs]. But I think the other aspect of it is just, the reality is that the donors that support both parties, these are not priorities of theirs. In fact, a lot of times they're opposed to the priorities of theirs. They are the healthcare CEOs. They are the people who have to negotiate against the unions. They are the people who would have to pay up the higher minimum wages. So that's part of the thing that makes it challenging. But Barber's been able to do the work [laughs] in North Carolina and make a difference there. And it's not… and he was one of the people, organizing like his is what made North Carolina a swing state in the first place from a traditionally deep red state. So it's worth trying, guys [laughs].Jonathan Walton: It is.Sy Hoekstra: Take a look, Democrats.Jonathan Walton: Worth trying.Sy Hoekstra: It's worth trying [laughs]. It's not just worth trying for political victories either. It's also worth actually addressing poor people's needs [laughs], to be clear about what I'm saying.Jonathan Walton: Yeah. And I think I was convicted. Like, Shane Claiborne said this and others like Merton has said this, and Howard Thurman said this, and MLK said it, and Jesus said it. The center of the church should be marginalized people. That should actually be the thing. “The poor will always be with us,” is not an endorsement of poverty. That's not what that is. You know what I mean? [laughter] Some people were like, “Well, people are supposed to be poor, and I'm supposed to…”Sy Hoekstra: I know. I know. Or, the poor will always be with us, and that means that we should not try to end poverty, because Jesus said you can't end it.Jonathan Walton: Yeah, right. That, no. But the reality that that is a broken, tragic theology that aligns with White American folk religion and requires no sacrifice from people who are on the upper end of a dominant hierarchy. That's what that is. Yeah. I hope that even if the political parties of the United States do not pay attention to what to what Barber is saying, that the Church will. That would be great.Sy Hoekstra: Yeah. Amen to that. Alright. I think we're just gonna end it there. I already did the outro and everything, the credits and all that stuff in the Live episode, so I think Jonathan and I at this point are just going to say thank you all so much for listening. We will see you in January for the next episode. Goodbye.Jonathan Walton: Thank you. Bye [laughter].[The song “Citizens” by Jon Guerra fades in. Lyrics: “I need to know there is justice/ That it will roll in abundance/ And that you're building a city/ Where we arrive as immigrants/ And you call us citizens/ And you welcome us as children home.” The song fades out.]Sy Hoekstra: How what somebody else is saying is affecting other people around you, or the other person that that person has to interact with, meaning the person who youJonathan Walton: [burps].Sy Hoekstra: [laughs], remember, I can't mute you if you just burp into your microphone.Jonathan Walton: Yes, sir. My apologies. [laughter] Welcome to live everyone.Sy Hoekstra: Welcome to live Substack.Jonathan Walton: I drank a ton of water. They saw me just do that [laughter].

Send us a message - we'd love to hear from youEver wondered how avoiding difficult conversations could be sabotaging your relationships and your career? Join us as we explore the art of timely communication, inspired by insights from Joseph Grenny's "Crucial Conversations." We delve into the reasons we shy away from those essential talks, whether it's fear, procrastination, or the pressures of a fast-paced environment. We share personal anecdotes and reflect on our own internal battles that hold us back from addressing critical issues. We'll guide you through the complexities of workplace communication and trust, and provide practical advice for maintaining your core values and assessing your role if you're consistently avoiding necessary dialogues at work.We want to thank the team that continues to support us in producing, editing and sharing our work. Jonah Smith for the heartfelt intro music you hear at the beginning of each podcast. We LOVE it. Hillary Rideout for writing descriptions, designing covers and helping us share our work on social media. Chad Penner for his superpower editing work to take our recordings from bumpy and glitchy to smooth and easy to listen to episodes for you to enjoy. From our hearts, we are so thankful for this team and the support they provide us.

This week, we are so thrilled to bring you a conversation with Joseph Grenny. If you've ever read Crucial Conversations, Influencer, or Change Anything, then you already know the immense impact of Joseph's work. His books have sold millions of copies and become essential texts for building trust, improving relationships, and transforming the way we communicate in every area of life—from families to Fortune 500 companies.Joseph is more than an author. He's a social scientist, a business leader, and a force for good. He's co-founded organizations like VitalSmarts and The Other Side Academy, the latter of which has redefined what it means to help people rebuild lives after addiction and incarceration. Joseph's work is deeply practical and profoundly humane—it's about understanding the moments that shape us, the conversations that define us, and the courage it takes to truly connect with each other.In this episode, we explore how to navigate the most emotionally charged and high-stakes conversations—what Joseph calls "moments of disproportionate influence." He shares insights on why avoiding hard conversations only compounds harm, how to speak honestly without losing relationships, and the unexpected ways crucial conversations can lead to healing and deeper connection.Joseph even offers tools for the moments we dread most: when values clash, when trust has eroded, or when we're afraid our words will only make things worse. This conversation is full of wisdom, heart, and, yes, practical strategies you can use right away. Whether you're looking to strengthen a marriage, or navigate a family faith transition, or just get better at work relationships, this one's for you.We are so grateful Joseph joined us to share his hard-won insights, and we can't wait for you to hear this. And with that, here's our conversation with Joseph Grenny.

Giving constructive feedback is one of the best ways to help people grow and keep teams aligned. Yet, many people I work with struggle with giving constructive feedback effectively - including me earlier in my career! This short 7-minute video will explain a few reasons why leaders struggle and the unintended bad consequences that occur when they don't share feedback well. Also, learn a simple 3-step framework that will positively transform your ability to give effective feedback, enabling you to do so regularly and comfortably. Jamie refers to this book, Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High by Joseph Grenny and Kerry Patterson. Executive Access is produced by The Ideal Life, a platform that provides coaching, community, and content for people to grow both personally and professionally.

If you're struggling to keep people engaged and loyal in your product or business, check out my FREE gamification course to learn how to do just that: bit.ly/freegamificationcourse-web We discuss how to use gamification to help students overcome math anxiety. This is how Dr. Aditya Nagrath, founder of Elephant Learning Mathematics Academy, makes education engaging and effective through gamification. By incorporating engaging and playful elements, Elephant Learning enables students to expedite their math learning significantly. This episode highlights how gamified educational platforms can make challenging subjects more approachable, motivating, and less intimidating for students. Dr. Nagrath helps students overcome mathematics anxiety. Aditya is the creator and founder of Elephant Learning Mathematics Academy which helps students learn years of mathematics over the course of a few months using their system just 10 minutes per day, 3 days per week. With a PhD in Mathematics & Computer Sciences, Dr. Nagrath has spent over 30 years in the industry as a software engineer, author, leader, speaker, and serial entrepreneur working on everything from atomic clocks to iOS and Android apps to Amazon's Kindle Fire. As the Founder of Elephant Head Software, which won the prestigious JD Edwards Innovation Award in 2015, he has also done software projects for Pearson, Verizon, Telefonica, JD Edwards (Oracle), and other billion-dollar companies. Rob is a host and consultant at Professor Game as well as an expert, international speaker and advocate for the use of gamification and games-based solutions, especially in education and learning. He's also a professor and workshop facilitator for the topics of the podcast and LEGO SERIOUS PLAY (LSP) for top higher education institutions that include EFMD, IE Business School and EBS among others in Europe, America and Asia.   Guest Links and Info Website: elephantlearning.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/adityanagrath Instagram @dradityanagrath Books: Treating Mathematics Anxiety Rethinking Math Learning   Links to episode mentions: Proposed guest: Steve Jobs Recommended books: Influencer by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, David Maxfield and others Hooked by Nir Eyal Favorite game: Skyrim Series (The Elder Scrolls)   Lets's do stuff together! Get started in Gamification for FREE! LinkedIn Instagram TikTok YouTube Twitter Facebook Ask a question

Send us a textStruggling to juggle the demands of work and family while trying to lead effectively? In this episode, I'm thrilled to chat with Josiah Fogle, a dynamic author and entrepreneur who's mastered the art of retaining 100% of his team. Josiah's story—from his upbringing in the Philippines to becoming a leading figure in his field—illustrates the profound impact of mentorship, resilience, and creating a supportive work culture.Join us as we explore the vital balance between meaningful relationships and family time. Josiah's journey with Southwestern Advantage and his leadership strategies reveal how prioritizing personal growth and team collaboration drives exceptional results.We also delve into insights from Cameron Harreld's "Second in Command," offering valuable perspectives on how to support and complement the primary leader's strengths. Discover how setting clear family and business goals can guide your decisions and actions, fostering both personal and professional success.Tune in to learn how intentional leadership and balance can elevate your effectiveness at work and enrich your personal life.Connect with Josiah Fogle:To connect with Josiah Fogle, email him directly at josiahfogle@gmail.com. For more information on ghostwriting, collaborative writing, or to discuss your book ideas, visit his website at mystorybuilders.com, where you can schedule a call with his team.Books Mentioned: Second in Command by Cameron HarreldNever Split the Difference by Chris VossCrucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al SwitzlerHow to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale CarnegieReady to Finish 2024 Strong?Don't wait until December to address your challenges. There's a few months left in 2024, now is the time to plan for a strong finish! Book a free strategy call with Dr. William Attaway to create a plan for impactful results. Support the showJoin Dr. William Attaway on the Catalytic Leadership podcast as he shares transformative insights to help high-performance entrepreneurs and agency owners achieve Clear-Minded Focus, Calm Control, and Confidence. Free 30-Minute Discovery Call:Ready to elevate your business? Book a free 30-minute discovery call with Dr. William Attaway and start your journey to success. Special Offer:Get your FREE copy of Catalytic Leadership: 12 Keys to Becoming an Intentional Leader Who Makes a Difference. Connect with Dr. William Attaway: Website LinkedIn Facebook Instagram TikTok YouTube

We have decided to share with you  2-3 sessions from our recent Restore gathering to give you a taste of what took place during this amazing weekend. Last week we shared Joseph Grenny's incredible message. It was an instant classic. . Today, we're honored to bring you another really special moment from Restore. In a powerful, unflinching, and faithful presentation, our friend and community leader Neylan McBaine addressed an “elephant in the room” that so often goes unnamed: our experience with patriarchy in our faith communities. We think it's important to note that many members don't necessarily experience patriarchy as a big problem, but many do, so our hope is that what Neylan shares here can offer new understanding and illustrate the frustration and pain that many women, perhaps especially younger women, experience in our patriarchal church organization. In 2014, Neylan published her book Women at Church. In this address, she looks back at the decade since the book's release and explores the tension between the way many women experience Church and a deep commitment to our faith and community. It's an invitation to wrestle with complexity, to hold space for discomfort, and explore how we can do better in bringing womens gifts more fully into the body of Christ.We also want to mention that there is a part 2 of this conversation where Neylan is joined by therapist and podcaster Valerie Hamaker. Valerie offered insights into the empowering inner work of differentiation—how women can hold on to our spiritual authority while also staying engaged in the community we love. It's the practical application part of this session. That part two will be available as part of the digital access to Restore which you still can get digital tickets to at faithmatters.org/restore. As always, we encourage you to watch these episodes on the Faith Matters Youtube channel to get the full experience. Make sure to go to youtube and subscribe. We truly hope you find as much wisdom and inspiration in this conversation as we did. And with that, we'll hand it over to Neylan McBaine at Restore.

This week, we're going to share what we think was an “instant classic” from last week's Restore Gathering; a deeply personal and thought-provoking message about family, faith, and the complexity of life from Joseph Grenny, author of Crucial Conversations and co-founder of many organizations, including The Other Side Academy, Drawing from his own experience with his own “messy” family, Joseph speaks openly about moments of despair, including the heartache of watching loved ones, including his own children, struggle with addiction, estrangement, and other crises.But at the heart of his message is a radical idea: that the phrase "All is well" can be true even in the face of chaos and imperfection. He challenges the traditional "brochure" image of family success, reminding us that not even the families in our sacred texts had it all together. Through powerful stories of redemption, both from his own family and the lives transformed at The Other Side Academy, Joseph encourages us to rethink what it means to succeed as families, and to embrace waiting as part of God's divine work.We think this conversation will resonate deeply with anyone who has felt the pain of seeing a loved one struggle, and we hope it offers both comfort and inspiration. We loved seeing many of you at Restore and wanted to give a little taste of it to those that weren't able to attend. So with that, we'll pass it over to Joseph Grenny.

Have you ever been in a situation where you need to have a crucial conversation, but opinions are strong, stakes are high and emotions are rolling like Niagara falls?  We try to handle conflict God's way using Matthew 18, but how many times does it seem like our approach fails miserably and we either can't solve the problem? We make it worse by hurting others or by trying to keep ourselves from being hurt. In today's episode, we are doing a review of the book Crucial Conversations - Tools for Talking When Stakes are High. by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler.  Listen now to find out why you should add this tool to your leadership repertoire!   James 1:19-20  Be quick to listen, but slow to speak. And be slow to become angry Find it here on Amazon - https://a.co/d/7iy42lo   Next Steps:  Schedule a coaching call:  https://calendly.com/leadyourhomeschoolco-op/coaching-call?month=2024-03 Join our Facebook group- Lead Your Homeschool Co-op https://www.facebook.com/groups/72507320516066 Become a Lead Your Homeschool Co-op Insider and get first dibs on valuable resources to help you lead, organize, and connect your community.   https://www.homeschoolcommunitybuilders.com/  

Chapter 1:Summary of Influencer: The New Science of Leading Change"Influencer: The New Science of Leading Change," written by Joseph Grenny alongside Kerry Patterson, David Maxfield, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler, is a comprehensive guide on the psychology and strategies behind effective leadership and change management. The book seeks to equip leaders, individuals, and organizations with the tools to successfully navigate and implement change.Key concepts outlined in the book include:1. Focus on High-Impact Behaviors: Instead of attempting to change many aspects at once, the book recommends focusing on a few vital behaviors that will have the most significant positive impact on the situation.2. Engage All Six Sources of Influence: The authors identify six sources of influence that affect human behavior, which leaders can target to implement change effectively:- Personal Motivation: Make the undesirable desirable.- Personal Ability: Surpass your limits.- Social Motivation: Harness peer pressure.- Social Ability: Find strength in numbers.- Structural Motivation: Design rewards and demand accountability.- Structural Ability: Change the environment.3. Measure Results: Monitoring progress is crucial to understand the impact of the changes, enabling adjustments to strategies as needed.4. Create an Environment that Supports Change: Changing the physical environment can also influence behavior significantly, encouraging or discouraging certain actions.5. Leverage Peer Pressure and Influence: Social networks and norms significantly impact behavior, thus, influencing the right group dynamics can help reinforce the desired change.6. Motivate Through Incentives: While intrinsic motivation is important, appropriate use of extrinsic rewards and penalties can play a big role in effecting change.7. Develop Mastery through Practice: Building ability, both through training and practice, is essential for sustainably adopting new behaviors.8. Focus on the Impact of Change: Leaders should clearly communicate the importance of change and its impact on both organizational and personal levels.The authors provide numerous case studies and real-world examples to illustrate how even the most formidable challenges can be overcome by influencing human behavior effectively through these principles. The book asserts that anyone can learn to become an effective influencer, philosopher, and a change-maker within their own environments by systematically using the strategies outlined."Influencer: The New Science of Leading Change" is both a theoretical framework for understanding the process of change and a practical guide to applying its principles in a variety of situations, making it a valuable resource for leaders in any field.Chapter 2:The Theme of Influencer: The New Science of Leading Change Key Plot Points:1. Definition of Influence: The book starts by exploring the concept of influence itself, redefining it as a leadership tool that can drive significant changes. This sets the stage for a deeper examination into how influence can be strategically exercised.2. Six Sources of Influence: The authors introduce a model that incorporates six key sources of influence, which they argue are necessary for successful change. These sources encompass personal and social motivation, personal and social ability, structural motivation, and structural ability. 3. Real-World Examples: Each principle is backed by real-life case studies, ranging from reducing crime rates to improving healthcare practices. These serve as plot-like exemplifications of how theoretical principles are applied practically.4. Skills Development: The narrative progresses to discuss how individuals can develop skills across all six sources of influence to maximize their...

In the Life Help section on the website for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we are reminded that, “Everyone needs help sometimes. Life is like that. In fact, God planned it to be that way.” For social scientist, New York Times bestselling author and Church member, Joseph Grenny, helping others has become his career and a personal calling. Through thorough research, a variety of business endeavors and personal experiences, Grenny says he has learned the value of practical and spiritual influences that spark change in even the most dire circumstances. In 2015, he and his colleagues founded The Other Side Academy, a free residential life skills program for those with long histories of crime, addiction and homelessness. And this work has recently expanded to the The Other Side Village project and more. He joins this episode of the Church News podcast to share his hope in the betterment of humanity and testimony of the unmatched, positive influence of the gospel of Jesus Christ.  The Church News Podcast is a weekly podcast that invites listeners to make a journey of connection with members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints across the globe. Host Jon Ryan Jensen, editor of The Church News, shares a unique view of the stories, events, and people who form this international faith. With each episode, listeners are asked to embark on a journey to learn from one another and ponder, “What do I know now?” because of the experience. Produced by KellieAnn Halvorsen.

This week, Shawn Wilkie and Dr. Ivan Zak chat with Dr. James Barr, Chief Medical Officer for Mars Petcare's Science & Diagnostics division, about the challenges and strategies of prioritizing innovation within a large organization. Dr. Barr discusses the impact of AI and other advanced technologies in veterinary diagnostics and care.   Discover the leadership practices with Simon Sinek's TED Talk. Dr. James Barr recommends “Crucial Conversations” by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler.

In our daily lives, we often face challenging conversations that can make or break relationships and outcomes. Many of us believe the choice is between speaking up and staying silent, but there's a crucial third option we often overlook. By mastering the art of crucial conversations, we can transform potential conflicts into opportunities for growth and understanding. Joseph Grenny shows how self-honesty and effective communication skills can help us navigate these pivotal moments, using a real-world example from healthcare to illustrate the power of speaking up.

Our guest Colton Pace, took the lessons he learned working for billionaires and turned them into a thriving business Ownwell. Colton discussed the challenges of founding a start-up and the keys to his success. Book: Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler 3 Pillars 1. Surround yourself with people smarter than you 2. Taking big enough risks 3. Keep learning Colton is the CEO and Co-Founder of Ownwell, a proprietary software that automatically identifies property owners who are overpaying on real estate expenses, reducing their costs of owning real estate, Colton has managed billions of dollars across several asset classes such as real estate and venture capital. You can connect with Colton on LinkedIn or by visiting www.ownwell.com Welcome to Pillars of Wealth Creation, where we talk about building financial freedom with a special focus on business and Real Estate. Follow along as Todd Dexheimer interviews top entrepreneurs, investors, advisers, and coaches. YouTube: www.youtube.com/c/PillarsOfWealthCreation Interested in coaching? Schedule a call with Todd at www.coachwithdex.com Listen to the audio version on your favorite podcast host: SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/user-650270376 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/.../pillars-of.../id1296372835... Google Podcasts: https://podcasts.google.com/.../aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zb3VuZ... iHeart Radio: https://www.iheart.com/.../pillars-of-wealth-creation.../ CastBox: https://castbox.fm/.../Pillars-Of-Wealth-Creation... Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0FmGSJe9fzSOhQiFROc2O0 Pandora: https://pandora.app.link/YUP21NxF3kb Amazon/Audible: https://music.amazon.com/.../f6cf3e11-3ffa-450b-ac8c...

Joseph Grenny joins Boyd to talk about the skills required to have crucial conversations with each other. The choice is not between talking it out and staying silent. It is actually between talking it out and acting it out. We need to be honest with ourselves and ask, “What are the consequences of not speaking up?” By weighing the consequences and  talking through things, we can learn how to disagree better and engage in better dialogue with one another.

Finish this week of news with Boyd Matheson! Boyd dives into the NATO Summit and President Zelensky’s remarks on the National Governors Association meeting. Tom Nichols weighs in on the accusations of the double standard in the media surrounding Biden and Trump. Dive into how we cannot rely on the Supreme Court to solve all of our problems with James Phillips. Veronique de Rugy shares the GOP’s fiscal goals in 2024 and how they would play out in reality. Learn the skills to have crucial conversations with Joseph Grenny and More!

Many listeners of this show often ask how they can better have crucial conversations in their own lives. So, Boyd and friend of the show Joseph Grenny are modeling how to conduct crucial conversations between loved ones, friends, and communities. It's based off of the award-winning book co-authored by Joseph Grenny called "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When the Stakes are High".

Boyd gives a fresh perspective after last night's disappointing presidential debate. Teenage journalist Wyatt Sharpe is an incredible example of a young professional in journalism. Boyd and Joseph Grenny give their model for engaging better in crucial conversations. 

Finish the week by looking past Friday’s headlines with Boyd Matheson! Matthew Petti helps answer the question, “What do the Palestinian people really want?”. See the crucial importance of engaged fathers with Dr. Jason Carroll. Niall Stanage reports on the growing crisis on Israel’s border against Hezbollah and its implications. A new segment, Crucial Conversations with Joseph Grenny and Boyd Matheson, digs into how people need to speak out rather than letting your emotions lead to hurtful actions and More!

We always stress the importance of having more crucial conversations about issues on this show. Starting today, and moving forward on Fridays, Boyd is going to try to provide a template for having crucial conversations that will encourage others to follow. It will take most of us outside of our comfort zone, but that is part of the point of doing this. Being able to reach out and engage with someone on a real issue, be able to really listen, and articulate our own views is essential to moving forward on the many issues and challenges facing us as a nation.  Today, Joseph Grenny from Crucial Conversations joins Boyd to talk about how the choice is not between talking about it and staying silent, it is between talking and acting it out.

Join Robby as he welcomes Brit Myers to the podcast. Brit, currently thriving as the VP of Engineering at System Initiative, discusses the intricacies of maintaining software. She emphasizes the importance of navigable software, where the ease of tracing the code and understanding its structure is paramount. Brit highlights the significance of clear naming conventions and inline documentation, as they help in maintaining a cohesive narrative within the software. The conversation touches on the challenges posed by discrepancies in vocabulary between product management and engineering, and how glossaries can bridge these communication gaps. Brit advocates for the use of glossaries more as a reflective tool rather than a proactive one, given the dynamic nature of software development. She also delves into strategies for managing legacy code and technical debt, proposing a pragmatic approach where wrapping and modularizing legacy components can mitigate risks. She discusses the balance between immediate feature delivery and long-term code health, stressing the importance of aligning technical risks with business objectives. The episode explores the impact of company culture on development practices, the benefits of synchronous work environments, and the evolving landscape of DevOps. Tune in to tap into Brit's valuable wisdom.Book Recommendation:Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High By Kerry Patterson, Stephen R. Covey, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al SwitzlerHelpful Links:System InitiativeBrit on LinkedInSPACE FrameworkDORA metricsThanks to Our Sponsor!Turn hours of debugging into just minutes! AppSignal is a performance monitoring and error tracking tool designed for Ruby, Elixir, Python, Node.js, Javascript, and soon, other frameworks. It offers six powerful features with one simple interface, providing developers with real-time insights into the performance and health of web applications. Keep your coding cool and error-free, one line at a time! Check them out! Subscribe to Maintainable on:Apple PodcastsSpotifyOr search "Maintainable" wherever you stream your podcasts.Keep up to date with the Maintainable Podcast by joining the newsletter.

Joseph Grenny is the coauthor of four New York Times bestsellers, including Crucial Conversations, Crucial Accountability, Change Anything, and Crucial Influence. His work has been translated into 28 languages, is available in 36 countries, and has generated results for more than half of the Forbes Global 2000. Joseph is also a globally sought after keynote speaker, and has shared the stage with Jack Welch, Brené Brown, Jim Collins, and General Colin Powell among others.  In addition to his writing and speaking, Joseph serves as chairman of the board for the Other Side Academy, a peer-run residential school for people with long histories of crime, homelessness, and addiction. In this episode we discuss the following: At the heart of most disappointment in organizations are conversations that people are either not holding or not holding well, in part because many of us think that there are just some conversations that we can't have. But Joseph's work shows that you can talk with almost anyone about almost anything as long as you create enough safety. If people feel safe, and that you're motives are appropriate, then they'll let you say almost anything you need. Joseph witnessed this firsthand when he intervened during a fight at the airport. By showing the aggressor that he understood and cared for him, Joseph was then able to deliver the truth that the man's behavior was unacceptable. In seconds the man moved from aggression to apology. Follow Joseph: X: https://twitter.com/josephgrenny LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joseph-grenny-a89081b/ Follow Me: X: https://twitter.com/nate_meikle LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natemeikle/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nate_meikle/  

"Tools for Resolving Violated Expectations, Broken Commitments, and Bad Behavior"

How do you handle stressful conversations? Do you know how you're likely to react? Do you default to being aggressive or combative? It's crucial that you understand how you react—i.e. your “style under stress”— in tense situations to change how you show up in the moment. Navigating these conversations is Joseph Grenny's specialty. He shares where to get started in this throwback episode of Negotiations Ninja. 

Hello and welcome to Season 13! This season is different because ½ of the 8 episodes are going to be focused on AI. However, there are a few episodes that aren't focused on AI including today's. While understanding AI is important, we also need the EQ that occurs in between skilling up and one of those huge skills is navigating difficult conversations. As Jennifer says, contact and context before content! This episode is the pep talk you perhaps didn't even know you needed. Jennifer empowers us to tackle our challenges head on, eliminate negative self talk,  and take care of ourselves throughout the process. We go through three real life examples and Jennifer talks through how she would handle them. These examples were submitted by real life listeners with their real life challenges. Jennifer Zaslow is an Executive Coach who believes that harnessing your full potential begins with finding your voice. She began her professional life in New York as an aspiring opera singer, an experience that led to a twenty year career as a leader and senior fundraiser in the non-profit sector.  Today, as Partner at Clear Path Executive Coaching, Jennifer's signature mix of intuition, directness and humor enables her to work successfully with clients ranging from CEO's to young leaders, helping individuals to reach their full potential, and organizations to achieve their strategic goals.   Jennifer has worked with leaders and teams from a wide variety of sectors, including higher ed (Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, University of Pennsylvania), arts and culture (The Metropolitan Museum of Art, The New York Public Library, The Metropolitan Opera, New York City Ballet, BAM, The High Line), sports/media/entertainment (The NFL, Sundance Institute, BuzzFeed, WNYC, KCRW) and tech/startups (Google, CHIEF, Angi, and TodayTix).   Prior to coaching, Jennifer held the chief development officer role at three New York City cultural institutions: Manhattan Theatre Club, New York City Opera, and The New York Public Library.  There, she successfully completed a $500 million capital campaign during the 2008 recession and grew the Library's endowment to over $1 billion.    Jennifer holds a B.A. cum laude from Wesleyan University and a CPCC coaching certification from CTI. She is certified in the Myers Briggs Type Indicator, is a Gallup Clifton Strengths Coach and is a recipient of Harvard Law School's PON certificate in Mediation and Conflict Resolution. She is also Director of the Floria Lasky Institute for Arts Leadership, sponsored by The Jerome Robbins Foundation.  She lives and practices in New York City. Resources: 1. Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury 2. Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen 3. Crucial Conversations by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler, Emily Gregory 4. How to Work with Anyone (even difficult people) by Amy Gallo --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/devdebrief/support

Chapter 1 What's Change Anything Book by Kerry PattersonChange Anything: The New Science of Personal Success is a self-help book by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, David Maxfield, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler. It provides a framework for making successful and lasting changes in one's life by identifying and addressing the six sources of influence that can hold individuals back from achieving their goals. The book offers practical strategies and techniques for modifying behavior, changing habits, and effectively overcoming obstacles to personal success.Chapter 2 Is Change Anything Book A Good Book"Change Anything: The New Science of Personal Success" by Kerry Patterson has received positive reviews from readers and is popular for its practical advice on creating lasting change in various aspects of life. It combines psychology, sociology, and personal anecdotes to provide a comprehensive guide for changing habits, relationships, and behaviors. If you are interested in self-improvement and personal development, this book may be worth a read.Chapter 3 Change Anything Book by Kerry Patterson Summary"Change Anything: The New Science of Personal Success" by Kerry Patterson offers a comprehensive guide on how to make lasting changes in your life. The book introduces the concept of the “six sources of influence” that affect our behavior: personal motivation, personal ability, social motivation, social ability, structural motivation, and structural ability.Patterson explains how these sources of influence can be leveraged to create lasting change in any area of your life, whether it's improving your health, relationships, or career. The key to making meaningful changes, according to the book, is to identify the specific behaviors that need to be changed, and then systematically address each source of influence to support those changes.Through real-world examples and practical strategies, Patterson demonstrates how readers can overcome common obstacles such as lack of motivation, self-doubt, and environmental factors that hinder progress. By understanding and applying the principles outlined in the book, readers can take control of their lives and achieve their goals.Overall, "Change Anything" provides a roadmap for creating meaningful and lasting change, offering readers the tools and strategies they need to overcome challenges and achieve personal success. Chapter 4 Change Anything Book AuthorKerry Patterson is an American author, speaker, and management consultant. He is known for co-authoring several bestselling books on communication, influence, and change management. The book "Change Anything: The New Science of Personal Success" was released in 2011 and was co-authored by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, David Maxfield, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler. Some of Kerry Patterson's other notable books include:- "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High" (2002)- "Crucial Accountability: Tools for Resolving Violated Expectations, Broken Commitments, and Bad Behavior" (2013)- "Influencer: The Power to Change Anything" (2008)Among these books, "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High" is considered one of the most popular and impactful editions, receiving critical acclaim for its practical advice on effective communication in high-stakes situations.Chapter 5 Change Anything Book Meaning & ThemeChange Anything Book Meaning"Change Anything" by Kerry Patterson is a self-help book that explores the power of...

In this episode of Moonshots Podcast, we dive deep into mastering crucial conversations.Delve into the key concepts from the book "Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes Are High" by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler, and Emily Gregory. By the end, you'll have practical insights and tools to confidently tackle even the most challenging conversations.Buy The Book on Amazon https://geni.us/XkTiAjSGet the summary https://www.apolloadvisor.com/summary-crucial-conversations-by-joseph-grenny-et-al/Become a Moonshot Member https://www.patreon.com/MoonshotsWatch this episode on YouTube https://youtu.be/k4Sw75xxGvMOpening with a gripping example set in an Airport in Bangladesh, Grenny lays the foundation by illustrating the complexities involved in these high-stakes dialogues, setting the stage for a conversation that could change how you approach difficult discussions (3m37).Gregory, from Crucial Learning, joins the conversation with a powerful insight. In just 1 minute and 24 seconds, she shares a transformative tip on "How to Start a Crucial Conversation" when anxiety grips you, providing listeners with practical tools to navigate those nerve-wracking initial moments (1m24).The hosts then turn to Productivity Game, which unpacks the essence of crucial conversations and why they are indispensable in our lives. Focusing on defusing tension, they shed light on the vital skill of "Keeping the Dialogue Going," emphasizing the importance of continuous, respectful communication even in the face of conflict (3m40).As the episode draws close, Ron McMillan takes the spotlight, leaving listeners with his profound wisdom on "Crucial Accountability." His advice serves as a compass, guiding you on when it's essential but imperative to have those crucial conversations (1m28).Join Moonshots Podcast in this transformative episode as they explore crucial conversations' nuanced art, providing valuable insights and actionable strategies that can revolutionize your approach to difficult dialogues. Don't miss out on this empowering episode, filled with wisdom and practical tips that could change how you navigate conversations forever. Tune in now and unlock the secrets to mastering the art of crucial conversations. Thanks to our monthly supporters Diana Bastianelli Andy Pilara ola Lorenz Weidinger Fred Fox Austin Hammatt Zachary Phillips Antonio Candia Dan Effland Mike Leigh Cooper Daniela Wedemeier Bertram O. Gayla Schiff Corey LaMonica Smitty Laura KE Denise findlay Krzysztof Wade Mackintosh Diana Bastianelli James Springle Nimalen Sivapalan Roar Nikolay Ytre-Eide Stef Roger von Holdt Jette Haswell Marco Silva venkata reddy Dirk Breitsameter Ingram Casey Nicoara Talpes rahul grover Evert van de Plassche Ravi Govender Andrew Hyde Craig Lindsay Steve Woollard Lasse Brurok Deborah Spahr Chris Way Barbara Samoela Christian Jo Hatchard Kalman Cseh Berg De Bleecker Paul Acquaah MrBonjour Sid Liza Goetz Rodrigo Aliseda Konnor Ah kuoi Marjan Modara Dietmar Baur Ken Ennis Bob Nolley ★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

Chapter 1 What's Crucial Confrontations Book by Kerry PattersonCrucial Confrontations: Tools for Resolving Broken Promises, Violated Expectations, and Bad Behavior is a book written by Kerry Patterson, Joseph Grenny, Ron McMillan, and Al Switzler. It was published in 2004 and provides practical strategies for handling crucial confrontations in both personal and professional settings. The book emphasizes the importance of effectively addressing difficult conversations and conflicts in order to improve relationships and achieve positive outcomes. It offers step-by-step guidance, case studies, and practical tools to help individuals navigate high-stakes conversations and resolve underlying issues.Chapter 2 Is Crucial Confrontations Book A Good BookThe book "Crucial Confrontations" by Kerry Patterson is generally well-regarded and has received positive reviews from readers. It provides techniques and strategies for effectively handling crucial conversations and confrontations in both personal and professional settings. It offers practical advice on improving communication, building trust, and resolving conflicts. However, the assessment of whether it is a good book ultimately depends on the reader's personal preferences and needs.Chapter 3 Crucial Confrontations Book by Kerry Patterson Summary"Crucial Confrontations: Tools for Resolving Broken Promises, Violated Expectations, and Bad Behavior" by Kerry Patterson is a book that provides practical strategies for dealing with high-stakes conversations and resolving conflicts effectively. The book is based on extensive research and provides a step-by-step guide to help individuals and teams navigate tough conversations.The main focus of the book is on crucial confrontations, which are defined as important discussions where emotions run high, opinions differ, and the stakes are significant. These confrontations often occur when someone violates an important expectation or breaks a promise, leading to negative consequences and strained relationships.The book offers a framework for addressing crucial confrontations by emphasizing the importance of mutual purpose and mutual respect. It provides a series of tools and techniques to:1. Start with heart: This involves examining one's own motives and ensuring that the intention behind the conversation is genuine and focused on finding a solution.2. Master your stories: This tool is about understanding the stories we tell ourselves about the situation and discovering how they may be influencing our emotions and behavior. By challenging these narratives, individuals can gain a clearer perspective on the issue at hand.3. State your path: This tool focuses on effectively communicating one's concerns and expectations without resorting to aggressive or passive-aggressive behavior. It emphasizes the importance of using dialogue rather than monologue to create a safe and productive environment for discussion.4. Make it safe: Creating a safe space for dialogue is crucial to ensure that all parties feel comfortable expressing their views and concerns. The book provides techniques for promoting safety and trust during crucial confrontations.5. Move to action: This tool focuses on achieving tangible results by identifying solutions, establishing commitments, and setting up accountability mechanisms. The book provides strategies for making agreements and following through on them.Throughout the book, Patterson uses real-life examples and case studies to illustrate how the tools and techniques can be applied in various situations. The book also emphasizes the importance of using these skills consistently to improve relationships and resolve conflicts proactively.In summary, "Crucial...

The hosts begin a two-part series based on the book Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, et al.https://www.amazon.com/s?k=crucial+conversations%27&i=stripbooks&hvadid=580696784314&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9027500&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7391910392771135541&hvtargid=kwd-6742378241&hydadcr=22562_13493218&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_5r5m2aw19o_e

“People are dying to tell you their life story. They just need to be asked.”  So says author, columnist at The New York Times, and writer at The Atlantic David Brooks on a new episode of The Russell Moore Show. Moore and Brooks' conversation explores the themes in Brooks' new book, How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen. They talk about what it means to view people according to the inherent value and dignity of their souls, how love shapes us, and the cultural vocabulary around trauma. Moore and Brooks discuss marriage and the power of compassion. Their conversation covers the Hamas attacks, political volatility, and how to get through 2024 without increasing division. Tune in for an episode that cuts straight to the heart of what it means to be human and to honor the humanity in others.  Resources mentioned in this episode include: Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America by Russell Moore How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen by David Brooks Weave: the Social Fabric Project Telling Secrets: A Memoir by Frederick Buechner  Michael Gerson's sermon at Washington National Cathedral Man's Search for Meaning by Victor E. Frankl The Angel That Troubled the Waters by Thornton Wilder Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking When Stakes are High by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson, Ron McMillan, Al Switzler, and Emily Gregory  Do you have a question for Russell Moore? Send it to questions@russellmoore.com. Click here for a trial membership at Christianity Today. “The Russell Moore Show” is a production of Christianity Today Executive Producers: Erik Petrik, Russell Moore, and Mike Cosper Host: Russell Moore Producer: Ashley Hales Associate Producers: Abby Perry and McKenzie Hill Director of Operations for CT Media: Matt Stevens Audio engineering by Dan Phelps Video producer: Abby Egan Theme Song: “Dusty Delta Day” by Lennon Hutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Feel like you're balancing ALL the things this holiday season? Us too. Well, we're going to add one more thing to your list… to the TOP of your list actually. Yes, it's that important: Communicating with your partner! It's no secret that this time of year can be absolutely magical for our kids, and stressful for adults. The good news: it doesn't have to be! One way we've found to combat the holiday hellscape is by working with your partner to plan and enjoy this special time of year. Yes, visiting in-laws can be stressful (ugh… that pullout couch sofa, the lack of privacy!) and coordinating schedules for concerts, parties, and gift exchanges can make your head explode. But you shouldn't do it alone. Take time today to listen to our tips and tricks for working with your partner and making this time of year truly wonderful. Sit back, relax, and enjoy! Resources We Shared In This Episode: Join our newsletter! Get connected to No Guilt Mom and get our Home Responsibility Calculator absolutely FREE, so you can make a plan to delegate the work. No Guilt Mom YouTube Channel Check us out and subscribe to be notified every time we have new videos added for parents and kids, as well as video footage from our podcast episodes! Crucial Conversations: Tools for Talking when the Stakes are High by Joseph Grenny, Kerry Patterson et al Read the transcripts HERE Check out our favorite deals from our sponsors here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Joseph Grenny is a lifelong student of social science whose writings are references in major universities around the world. He is a New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including leadership, influence and communication classics Crucial Conversations, Influencer, Crucial Accountability, and Change Anything. His books are available in over 30 languages and have sold over six million copies. Joseph is a co-founder and current board chair of Unitus Labs, an international nonprofit that has helped over 15 million of the world's poorest to move toward self reliance. In 2015 he and his colleagues started The Other Side Academy, a 2.5-year school for those with long histories of crime, addiction and homelessness. The Other Side Academy is free, requiring only a desire to change for admission. In April 2021, Joseph and the leaders of The Other Side Academy announced their intention to build The Other Side Village, a 400-home community for those who are chronically homeless based on principles of self-reliance and peer accountability. Joseph is married to the former Celia Marie Waldron. They have six children and eight grandchildren and live in Salt Lake City. Highlights 02:45 Introduction to Joseph Grenny 04:20 Moroni's war on addiction 06:10 Joseph's work with addicts. Satan makes addiction look so attractive that all of us are falling to it. 10:30 The definition of addiction and modern addictions that interrupt our ability to feel the Spirit 11:30 The word of wisdom isn't so much about substances but the evil designs of conspiring people. People that manipulate us in order to invade our agency. 13:00 Joseph's son Seth's story. His addiction to heroin. 19:50 Even with Joseph's background he couldn't help his son with his addiction. He couldn't understand it. He turned to the scriptures and learned profound truths from Moroni. Saving Principles from Joseph's book, Moroni's War on Addiction. 26:30 Satan wins when you hide the problem so rally your troops. 32:00 It's ok to make mistakes. You are a small-s savior not the capital-S Savior. 35:10 Victory has nothing to do with the strength of the enemy. 40:40 The best way to motivate the rebellious is to get out of God's way. 50:00 You are commanded to feel joy while the war is raging. You do this by looking for tender mercies and practicing gratitude. 54:10 A lot of us at one point heard the phrase, “No good parent is ever happier than their least happy child.” If this is true then Heavenly Father must have a miserable life. The truth is that Heavenly Father is the happiest person. 1:01:00 Joseph shares his final testimony and how his son is doing now. He now works with hundreds of addicts at The Other Side Academy. 1:05:10 You never know how many attempts it's going to take to overcome an addiction. There is no key. As a loved one you just have to surrender and let them deal with the consequences. It's not your responsibility to fix or save someone. 1:08:40 What do people need from their ward or bishop that are going through addiction? 1:10:10 Showing up authentically. “I've sat in far too many priesthood meetings where we're talking about abstract concepts when people are dealing with concrete problems in the room…” 1:11:10 A lot of rehabs just don't work. The Other Side Academy isn't your typical rehab. It's a 2-year program, not just a 30-, 60-, or 90-day program. It's a long-term program for long-term problems. 1:14:14 Parents of a teenage addict. What is the approach there? Links Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Moroni's War on Addiction: A Scripture Hero's Strategy to Win Today's Battle for Souls The Other Side Academy Are we Losing?: A Gospel Perspective on Imperfect Families Jacob's Answer to Parental Despair: The Olive Tree and the Antichrist Read the TRANSCRIPT of this podcast The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit ...

Joseph Grenny is a lifelong student of social science whose writings are references in major universities around the world. He is a New York Times bestselling author of eight books, including leadership, influence and communication classics Crucial Conversations, Influencer, Crucial Accountability, and Change Anything. His books are available in over 30 languages and have sold over six million copies. Joseph is a co-founder and current board chair of Unitus Labs, an international nonprofit that has helped over 15 million of the world's poorest to move toward self reliance. In 2015 he and his colleagues started The Other Side Academy, a 2.5-year school for those with long histories of crime, addiction and homelessness. The Other Side Academy is free, requiring only a desire to change for admission. In April 2021, Joseph and the leaders of The Other Side Academy announced their intention to build The Other Side Village, a 400-home community for those who are chronically homeless based on principles of self-reliance and peer accountability. Joseph is married to the former Celia Marie Waldron. They have six children and eight grandchildren and live in Salt Lake City. Highlights 02:45 Introduction to Joseph Grenny 04:20 Moroni's war on addiction 06:10 Joseph's work with addicts. Satan makes addiction look so attractive that all of us are falling to it. 10:30 The definition of addiction and modern addictions that interrupt our ability to feel the Spirit 11:30 The word of wisdom isn't so much about substances but the evil designs of conspiring people. People that manipulate us in order to invade our agency. 13:00 Joseph's son Seth's story. His addiction to heroin. 19:50 Even with Joseph's background he couldn't help his son with his addiction. He couldn't understand it. He turned to the scriptures and learned profound truths from Moroni. Saving Principles from Joseph's book, Moroni's War on Addiction. 26:30 Satan wins when you hide the problem so rally your troops. 32:00 It's ok to make mistakes. You are a small-s savior not the capital-S Savior. 35:10 Victory has nothing to do with the strength of the enemy. 40:40 The best way to motivate the rebellious is to get out of God's way. 50:00 You are commanded to feel joy while the war is raging. You do this by looking for tender mercies and practicing gratitude. 54:10 A lot of us at one point heard the phrase, “No good parent is ever happier than their least happy child.” If this is true then Heavenly Father must have a miserable life. The truth is that Heavenly Father is the happiest person. 1:01:00 Joseph shares his final testimony and how his son is doing now. He now works with hundreds of addicts at The Other Side Academy. 1:05:10 You never know how many attempts it's going to take to overcome an addiction. There is no key. As a loved one you just have to surrender and let them deal with the consequences. It's not your responsibility to fix or save someone. 1:08:40 What do people need from their ward or bishop that are going through addiction? 1:10:10 Showing up authentically. “I've sat in far too many priesthood meetings where we're talking about abstract concepts when people are dealing with concrete problems in the room…” 1:11:10 A lot of rehabs just don't work. The Other Side Academy isn't your typical rehab. It's a 2-year program, not just a 30-, 60-, or 90-day program. It's a long-term program for long-term problems. 1:14:14 Parents of a teenage addict. What is the approach there? Links Recovering Saints Virtual Conference Moroni's War on Addiction: A Scripture Hero's Strategy to Win Today's Battle for Souls The Other Side Academy Are we Losing?: A Gospel Perspective on Imperfect Families Jacob's Answer to Parental Despair: The Olive Tree and the Antichrist TRANSCRIPT coming soon The Leading Saints Podcast is one of the top independent Latter-day Saints podcasts as part of nonprofit Leading Saint...