Small Business Banter

Overcoming Small Business Burnout: Why You Need Simpler Systems, Not More TechWelcome to another episode of the Owner to Owner Podcast. If you've ever wondered how to reduce small business burnout, the answer often starts with simplifying your small business tech stack. Are you feeling overwhelmed by the endless apps, subscriptions, and communication channels required to run your business today? You aren't alone.In this episode, Michael sits down with Elise Balsillie, Head of Thryv ANZ, to unpack why modern technology often adds complexity instead of freedom for small business owners. They explore the best systems for service based businesses and dive deep into the burnout epidemic. You'll learn exactly how to build a business that runs without you, which is the ultimate key to reducing owner dependency for business sale and preserving your day-to-day sanity.Whether you want to learn about using AI for small business marketing, improving local visibility for contractors, or leveraging Thryv for small business growth, this conversation covers the practical steps to get your time back.In this episode, you'll discover:The Burnout Reality: Why Thryv's recent research shows 45% of Australian small business owners have considered stepping away due to workload pressure.The "Mishmash" Tech Stack: Why stringing together too many isolated tools creates process gaps rather than fixing your core problems.The 3 a.m. Rule: How to stop trying to fix everything at once and focus strictly on the one issue keeping you awake at night.Real-World Success: How Booth Contracting saved 10 hours a week and scaled from a single van to a national operation using better local SEO and lead generation.Building for the Future: Actionable ways to reduce owner dependency to boost both your current profit and your eventual exit valuation.Practical AI Adoption: How to take practical, baby steps into AI to save time on everyday tasks without feeling overwhelmed.Episode Chapters:00:00 – The modern small business trap: Why tech promises freedom but delivers pressure05:22 – The "mishmash" tech stack and how to solve your 3 a.m. problem09:06 – How Thryv helps service businesses grow (featuring the Booth Contracting case study)18:37 – Surprising data from the Thryv Business Index: Burnout, rising costs, and wearing too many hats25:29 – Reducing owner dependency to improve saleability and transition out of the day-to-day30:22 – Building AI-powered marketing systems that outlast the owner38:24 – The future of online discovery and how AI is changing local search43:30 – Elise's final advice for overwhelmed owners and how to take the first step Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

In this episode of the Owner to Owner Podcast, Michael sits down with Bill Lang—Chair of Small Business Australia, Co-chair of Harvard Alumni Entrepreneurs for Oceania, and a seasoned business founder and advisor. They dive deep into the rising trend of "entrepreneurship through acquisition," exploring why buying an established business is becoming an increasingly popular and less risky alternative to the traditional startup model. Bill shares fascinating insights from his recent Harvard Business School reunion, highlighting the explosive impact of AI on the "solopreneur" movement and how technology is fundamentally lowering the barriers to entry for new business owners. Beyond trends, Bill delivers practical, hard-earned wisdom for current SME owners. From the critical importance of documenting your business processes and preparing for unexpected succession, to managing cash flow and learning from Other People's Mistakes (OPM), this episode is packed with actionable advice for building and sustaining a successful business. What You'll Learn in This Episode: Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition: Why buying an existing business is often a smarter, lower-risk strategy than building a startup from scratch. The AI Revolution: How artificial intelligence is empowering a new generation of "solopreneurs" to launch fully functional businesses in minutes. Succession Planning: Why documenting your business processes is vital for attracting buyers and protecting your family in case of unexpected life events. Regional Business Hubs: The essential role of Australia Post Licensed Post Offices (LPOs) in supporting regional and rural small business economies. Surviving the Journey: Bill's golden rules for small business survival, including why "cash is king" and the immense value of learning from other people's failures. Policy Reform: Bill's vision for a simplified employment structure and tax incentives to fuel a small business revolution in Australia. Chapters: 01:20 The Evolution of Entrepreneurship 06:24 Changing Perspectives on Business Ownership 11:34 The Rise of Solopreneurs and AI 16:29 Navigating the Landscape of Business Acquisition 21:36 Preparing for the Unexpected in Business 26:36 Lessons from Past Acquisitions 26:58 The Impact of Capital on Startups 30:04 Navigating Tax Changes and Business Opportunities 32:02 The Future of AI in Business 34:54 Leveraging AI for Small Business Growth 38:43 Aussie Post's Role in Supporting Small Businesses 42:23 Lessons from a Small Business Journey 46:52 The Need for Practical Experience in Politics #SmallBusiness #Entrepreneurship #BusinessAcquisition #Solopreneur #SmallBusinessAustralia #BusinessAdvice #AIforBusiness #SuccessionPlanning #BusinessStrategy #PodcastSEO Small Business Australia: Connect with Bill Lang and find resources to support your business journey at smallbusinessaustralia.org. Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Why every business owner needs to build authority. Michael sits down with Trevor Young—PR and communications advisor, coach, mentor, writer, author, and podcast host—to unpack why building authority is a strategic business asset for SME owners. They discuss how founders can build credibility, visibility, and trust without falling into noisy self-promotion. The conversation also gets practical about content, earned media, owned media, and how all of this affects growth, reputation, and even business saleability. In this episode: The real job of PR: Trevor reframes PR as building a deeper connection, trust, and reputation with the people who matter most to a business, rather than just chasing press hits. Why good owners stay invisible: A look at tall poppy syndrome, analogue mindsets, the fear of bragging, and the discomfort many owners feel about putting themselves out there. Content-led communications: Trevor breaks content down into four distinct buckets: Utility content Thought leadership content Personal content Brand content Why owned media matters: The case for email newsletters, websites, podcasts, and other channels you control, rather than relying solely on platforms that can change their rules overnight. Pick fewer channels and do them well: Why you shouldn't try to be everywhere, and how to build a strong base on just one or two channels (usually LinkedIn plus an owned channel). Matching format to founder: How video, writing, and audio all have a role, and why the best format depends on the founder's strengths, the audience, and the business model. Thought leadership > generic utility: While answering common questions is useful, the stronger opportunity is to express a point of view and challenge the status quo. Trust takes repetition: Why people often need to see you 7 to 12 times before they factor you into their thinking. Authority helps sales and exits: How personal brand, business brand, and strategic communications affect acquisition, talent attraction, and the ability to build a business that can run without the founder. Timestamps 00:00 - Why business owners need to build authority 00:58 - Trevor's background in journalism and PR   02:12 - Why he works with credible founders and experts   05:31 - Tall poppy syndrome and the fear of visibility   07:25 - Why content paralysis happens in a noisy media landscape   09:24 - Why owners already know they need to act   11:45 - Content-led communications across owned, earned, and paid media   13:27 - PR versus marketing and why the distinction matters   16:22 - Choosing the right content format: writing, video, audio, visual   17:42 - A property company's 350 video and live stream playbook   19:10 - Why owned media beats platform dependence   21:14 - Personal brand websites, books, and digital ownership   22:52 - The reality of omnipresence and big creator teams   24:42 - Why most business owners should focus on fewer channels   27:05 - Utility content versus thought leadership   28:30 - Why a contrarian point of view can matter more than FAQs   31:27 - How repeated exposure and personal stories build trust   34:19 - The four content buckets, including brand content   35:22 - The 80/20 rule for promotion versus value   39:42 - Why newsletters still matter, even if they are simple or curated   41:20 - Why YouTube is a major opportunity for business owners   42:42 - Building a show instead of random videos   45:57 - Beehiiv and newsletters as business assets   49:49 - Why human stories beat AI and how earned media helps discovery   51:34 - How AI tools use earned media and websites to verify people   55:38 - Why companies should make internal people into stars   57:06 - Michael Hyatt's move from personal brand to business brand   62:49 - Using back channels and case studies to support sale readiness   64:42 - Creating heat around a brand through visibility and speaking   67:19 - Talent attraction, retention, and employer brand   68:42 - Adam Robinson's LinkedIn growth and startup content strategy   71:41 - What Trevor would do if asked to lead small business policy   74:09 - Where to find Trevor's website and newsletter       Notable quotes “We want to hear from the genuine people who have got something to offer.” “If you just do rollout paid ads and you have nothing underneath to back it up, you're gonna have to put your hand in your pocket for a lot longer.” “If you want to grow quickly from a low base, it's all personal brand. If you want to build to sell, it's the business brand first.” Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

What does it take to build a thriving independent brewery in the shadow of multinational giants?  In this episode, Peta Fielding, co-founder of Burleigh Brewing, takes us behind the scenes of her nearly 20-year journey crafting one of Australia's most beloved indie beer brands. From buying a brewery out of Chapter 11 bankruptcy to mastering long-term strategy and fostering deep brand loyalty, Peta shares the highs, lows, and crucial decisions that fueled their growth.  Whether you're a craft beer enthusiast or an aspiring entrepreneur, this episode is packed with practical insights on passion, resilience, and scaling up while staying true to your community values. Key Topics & Takeaways: Building and sustaining an independent craft brewery in Australia Navigating early hurdles, including acquiring a bankrupt business Competing against multinational beverage giants The power of venue dynamics, brand loyalty, and community engagement Strategic growth, funding, and leadership for the long haul Chapters: 00:00 – Introduction to Peta Fielding & Burleigh Brewing 02:27 – The Origins: From Hawaii MBA to Burleigh Heads 05:55 – Buying a Brewery Out of Chapter 11 Bankruptcy 07:36 – Building a Business with Values & Community Focus 12:38 – Scaling Up: From Small Units to a Production Brewery 18:16 – Funding, Investors, & Business Growth 25:49 – Current Capacity & Future Expansion 37:27 – Venue Role & Community Engagement 43:44 – Industry Challenges & Multinationals in Australia 54:22 – Leadership, Succession, & Long-Term Vision 1:07:38 – Future Outlook & Maintaining Independence Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

As thousands of Australian small business owners approach retirement in the coming decade, the question of succession looms large.  Selling to a competitor or on the open market are familiar paths, but what about selling to the people who know the business best—the employees? @Andrew Clements from @employeeownershipaustralia talks about; The critical differences between traditional share schemes and EOTs,  How to overcome the regulatory hurdles holding Australia back, and  Why transitioning ownership to your team can boost productivity and preserve your business legacy. Whether you are looking to retire in five years or simply want to build a more engaged workforce today, this episode provides a clear roadmap for exploring employee ownership. In This Episode, We Cover: The looming SME succession crisis and why traditional exits aren't working for everyone. The fundamental differences between allocated employee share schemes and unallocated EOTs. How overseas markets like the UK and Canada have successfully mainstreamed employee ownership. Why EOTs are a perfect fit for professional service businesses, and how to structure them for asset-heavy businesses like farming. The "tax dodge" stigma and the urgent need for clear ATO guidance and legislative recognition in Australia. How employee ownership drives remarkable productivity and builds stronger local communities. Andrew's top three actionable tips for founders looking to transition out of their business in the next five years.   TIMELINE: 00:00 Introduction: The Looming SME Succession Challenge  01:12 What's Changed in Employee Ownership in the Last 5 Years?  07:40 Understanding Employee Share Schemes: Allocated vs. Unallocated Plans  14:55 Are EOTs a Genuine Asset Class for Small Business?  21:19 The Push for Legislative Recognition and ATO Guidance  27:39 Building Community and Retaining Local Businesses  31:33 Why Professional Service Businesses are Perfect for EOTs  38:13 Financing the Exit: Staged Sell-Downs and Managing Risk  45:22 Boosting SME Productivity Through Employee Engagement  49:23 Structuring EOTs for Asset-Heavy vs. Low-Capital Businesses  55:46 The Gap in Professional Advisor Awareness  59:28 Top 3 Tips for Founders Retiring in 5 Years  01:01:20 Andrew's Vision for Simplifying Small Business Regulation About Our Guest: Andrew Clements is the Co-Chair of Employee Ownership Australia (EOA), an advocacy group dedicated to facilitating and promoting employee ownership across the country. Andrew is a passionate advocate for reducing regulatory complexity and creating simple, robust succession models for Australian SMEs. Read the full, searchable transcript of this episode here:  https://ownertoownerpodcast.com.au/episodes Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Important Note for Listeners: This episode contains a discussion regarding mental health and the professional challenges—including suicidal ideation—faced by dental practitioners. We believe these conversations are vital for industry transparency and support. If you or someone you know is experiencing distress, please reach out to one of the following confidential, professional services: Dental Practitioner Support: A 24/7, independent, and free national support service specifically for dental practitioners, students, and their families. Phone: 1800 377 700. Lifeline Australia: 24/7 crisis support and suicide prevention services. Phone: 13 11 14. Beyond Blue: 24/7 mental health support and resources for all Australians. Phone: 1300 224 636. The Essential Network (TEN): Specialized mental health support for health professionals, developed by the Black Dog Institute. Episode Overview: In this episode, we explore the structural and cultural shift of moving a small business toward an employee-owned model. Our guest, Monica O'Malley, shares her journey in restructuring her dental practice, focusing on how this model fosters professional agency, eliminates traditional hierarchical friction, and builds long-term organizational resilience. We discuss the tangible impact of ownership on team motivation and the intentional steps required for leaders to build a lasting, purpose-driven professional legacy. Key Topics Covered: The Case for Shared Agency: Moving beyond top-down management to increase team engagement and problem-solving capabilities. Building Institutional Resilience: How employee ownership acts as a buffer against industry turbulence and "perma-crisis." Cultural Transformation: Practical steps for shifting the internal value system of a firm toward transparency and shared vision. Legacy Planning: Strategies for leaders looking to transition power and ensure the long-term health of their practice.   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Building a Purpose-Driven Business as a Mumpreneur with Marie Carillon In this episode, Marie Carillon, founder and podcast host of the Business Mum Compass, shares her insights into how mothers can create impactful, flexible businesses that align with their lifestyle and values. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity, personal branding, and clear definitions of success, especially in the evolving online economy. Key insights include: How Marie transitioned from broad entrepreneurship content to focusing on mumpreneurs upon realizing their unique needs. The significance of personal branding for online success and the role of authenticity in building trust. Strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome and mindset blocks, especially for mothers balancing family and business. The importance of defining success on your own terms and regularly revisiting your goals. How online businesses offer greater flexibility, making it easier to balance motherhood and entrepreneurship. The necessity of showing up consistently online, even when results aren't immediate. Reflection on the journey of entrepreneurship, learning from failures, and the value of persistence. The influence of AI and digital tools in scaling small businesses and personal branding. The ongoing need for support systems and accessible education for mumpreneurs, including affordable childcare and mental health resources. Practical steps for aspiring mompreneurs to start their journey with confidence and authenticity. Chapters: Introduction to Marie Carillon : Her work at the intersection of motherhood and entrepreneurship Transition to Mumpreneurs : From general entrepreneurship to a niche focus Mindset Challenges : Overcoming imposter syndrome Aligning Business with Motherhood : Balancing goals and realities Coaching and Confidence : Overcoming mindset blocks Personal Branding : Key to online success AI and Digital Tools : Impact on business scaling Authenticity Online : Building trust and relatability Engaging Content Creation : Tips for founders Offline vs. Online Branding : Current landscape Evolving Business with Family Needs : Defining success Purpose and Passion : Sustaining motivation Trial and Error in Entrepreneurship : Learning from failures Avoiding Burnout : Setting realistic expectations Online Business Models : Flexibility and growth Aligning Business with Passions : Core values Marie's Entrepreneurial Journey : Lessons learned Misinformation about Success : Importance of authenticity Persistence and Results : Long-term success Podcast Evolution : Focus on mumpreneurs Embracing Change : Overcoming fear of pivoting External Opinions and Resilience : Influences on business Supporting Mums in Business : Education and childcare Societal Role of Mums : Through entrepreneurship Success Factors for Small Business : Consistent effort and support Future of AI in Branding : Growth opportunities Integrating Business Education : Practical advice Resources & Links: The Business Mum Compass Podcast Marie Carillon - LinkedIn Marie Carillon - Instagram Business Mum Loveable Website Connect with Marie: LinkedIn Instagram Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Most rural communities are facing a critical crossroads: how to preserve essential local businesses when traditional ownership models are failing. What if communities could take ownership themselves—reclaiming their future one business at a time? Matt Pfahlert founder of Community Owned Australia, explains how regional communities can take a step towards buying and operating the assets they can't afford to lose.  Drawing on successful models from Australia and overseas, Matt shares practical lessons on community ownership, social enterprise, governance, funding and long-term sustainability. This conversation explores what happens when ownership transition fail, how communities can identify opportunities worth saving, and why entrepreneurial thinking remains essential even when profit isn't the only objective. If you're interested in business ownership, succession, regional development or the future of rural Australia, this episode offers a fresh perspective on keeping communities alive and thriving. Key Topics The role of community ownership in preventing the closure of essential local businesses The powerful concept of "recombinant innovation"—bringing proven strategies from overseas and adapting them to local contexts. How rural communities can leverage local networks to acquire assets The importance of entrepreneurial mindset and operational discipline in community-run businesses Examples of related models from overseas Practical steps for communities to start their ownership journey using the Community Owned Australia framework The significance of long-term planning, succession, and shared services to sustain rural businesses Policy insights for government support, including easing regulations around superannuation and incentivizing rural investment Timestamps 00:00 - Introducing the importance of community ownership in rural Australia 01:11 - The risk of losing key community assets and the concept of community buyback 01:55 - Matt's background growing up in rural communities and early entrepreneurial ventures 04:19 - Lessons from youth entrepreneurship and trading in small towns 05:30 - Moments that highlighted the need for alternative ownership models 07:45 - How overseas models inspire Australian solutions 09:44 - What  Recombinant Innovation  means for community-led ventures 11:30 - The principles and scope of  Community Owned Australia 12:09 - Diagnosing community needs and supporting local enterprise creation 14:02 - Building feasible business models with technical support and grants 15:20 - The importance of community governance, local investment, and co-ownership 17:23 - How to leverage external networks and mentorship for rural projects 20:05 - Changing community perceptions and motivation for local ownership 21:28 - The impact of local small businesses on retaining population and improving local appeal 22:39 - Identifying the types of businesses suited for community ownership 23:57 - Stages of community readiness and initial steps for engagement 26:11 - Role of entrepreneurial discipline and operational excellence in community ventures 28:00 - The significance of professional management and governance roles 29:32 - Innovative ideas like renewable energy projects to boost local economies 32:48 - Strategic planning, business succession, and understanding local business ecosystems 35:53 - Financing, valuation, and overcoming bank reluctance in rural asset ownership 38:04 - Engaging local champions—women, community leaders, and long-term residents 39:21 - The shifting mindset: from curiosity to motivation for rural community ownership 43:39 - Examples of successful buy-backs and their long-term asset value 44:40 - How communities can initiate with minimal risk through expressions of interest 47:21 - Hypothetical: What Matt would do as Australia's small business minister 48:48 - Final thoughts and how to get involved with Community Owned Australia   You can register your interest here  Community Owned Australia Other resources & Links Development Trust Association of Scotland Plunkett UK Kerr Capital   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Most business owners dramatically underestimate what it takes to sell successfully—until it's finally too late.  @Tony Brown founder of @DMA is a seasoned expert in Australia's mid-market transactions. We talk about hidden pitfalls that lead to owners leaving money on the table, and the critical steps in preparing your business two years before selling.  We break down how owner dependence, cultural fit, and timing can make or break your sale.  And, you'll learn about why cleaning up your balance sheet, structuring flexible exit options, and keeping key staff informed is so important. The episode is very timely for an owner on the cusp of selling. In this episode: The common surprises owners face in the sale process Why understanding your business's true value is crucial early on The differences between small and mid-market sales—what you need to know How strategic buyers think and what influences their offers The importance of owner readiness and timing (two years out, ideally) How to make your business more attractive and less risky for buyers Owner dependence and succession planning secrets The critical role of info memoranda, data rooms, and due diligence Protecting your legacy, staff, and your own peace of mind Practical tips for entrepreneurs aiming for a smooth, profitable exit   Timestamps: 00:00 - Why most owners leave money on the table in a business sale 02:10 - The importance of viewing your business from an outsider's perspective 04:23 - How due diligence can turn your business upside down 05:25 - Defining the mid-market: what most Australian businesses look like 07:11 - Why a business is more like a virtual walkthrough than a house 09:42 - The crucial difference owner-operator mindset vs. strategic buyers 12:19 - The sweet spot: industry focus and the role of strategic vs. financial buyers 14:43 - How owner emotional ties influence negotiation and sale strategy 16:34 - The significance of cultural and strategic fit over price alone 18:55 - How foreign acquirers and local sellers can align interests 20:19 - The importance of owner transition planning 22:53 - Why your business "value" depends on owner involvement and planning ahead 24:54 - The power of structure: minority shareholdings, options, and de-risking deals 26:48 - Transitioning to a project-focused exit and meaningful post-sale work 28:28 - The rise of industry-specific, project-based advisory boards 30:24 - How industry giants buy and what that means for small business owners 33:34 - Protecting your business from over-sharing and maintaining confidentiality 37:07 - The risks of rushing a sale—what owners often screw up 40:34 - Preparing your balance sheet and operations two years prior to sale 43:24 - The common pitfalls when owners get overattached to systems and tech 45:39 - The underrated value of intellectual property and brand assets 48:29 - Envisioning a better small business environment—less regulation, more supportIf you want to walk away with a clear game plan, more confidence, and less risk in your exit strategy—this episode is a must-listen. Tony Brown's insights aren't just theory—they're battle-tested, real-world truths that could maximize your sale and protect your legacy. Resources & Links: Tony Brown's LinkedIn DivestMergeAcquire Connect with Tony: Email: tony.brown@divestma.com @kerrcapital.com.au    Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Jacinta and Jesse from JC and the Tree have built their version of freedom, in music and in life. They have 3 years of touring Australia to prove it. From the road, gig by gig, they've had a a red hot crack at running a fully DIY music business while travelling Australia. This is a grounded look at what that actually takes: long drives, small crowds, constant admin, and making the numbers work through gigs, merch, and multiple income streams. They share how they stay organised, why community matters more than scale, and the trade-offs most people underestimate. It's a bit romantic, and a lot about being practical, disciplined, and deliberate. A useful and entirely motivating case study for anyone thinking about taking the leap to 'do a lap' and maintain or indeed start a new business. The message - get out and have a crack! Here's a couple of tracks to get your trip started. Outrun the Sun Wide Open Plain Made to Roam Main Insights: The daily grind of touring they call “no routine,” balancing gigs, admin, and sanity How small shows foster a strong community and why passion outweighs crowd size The leap from traditional jobs to full-time artist on the road, fueled by necessity and dreams The art of DIY—building a van, managing finances, marketing, and staying organized Income streams: gigs, merch, streaming struggles, and the promising world of sync licensing The mental health camaraderie among musicians on the road and the importance of support networks How living minimally on the move enhances life and art The future of independent artists: adaptability, passive income, and making space for creativity Policy fixes for small businesses, echoing the duo's call for fairness and ecosystem support Timestamps: 00:00 - The transformative power of living and working in a DIY artist community 01:02 - A typical day on the road: exercise, driving, gigs, and admin chaos 03:43 - The magic of small crowds: intimacy and authenticity in live music 05:08 - Moving from full-time jobs to chasing music dreams: risk, burnout, and breakthroughs 07:55 - The real costs: gear, recordings, and building a sustainable music business 09:11 - Breaking free from expensive rent, embracing a van life for freedom and purpose 13:13 - Skills beyond music: craftsmanship, bookkeeping, and digital literacy 17:50 - Streaming vs. traditional income: the harsh realities and future promises 21:28 - The potential of sync licensing—turning creative work into passive income streams 25:44 - The resilience of community: mental health, support, and the shared journey 27:23 - The evolving Australian live music scene: opportunities for indie musicians 29:42 - Challenges of balancing passion, business, and personal wellbeing on the road 36:35 - The pros and cons of platforms like Bandcamp, Spotify, and the quest for fair revenue 42:43 - Artistic passion vs. business acumen: living the lifestyle and sustaining the craft 51:45 - Imagining policy initiatives: fairness, tax accountability, and supporting small businesses 55:12 - Final words: the importance of community, resilience, and bold choices in art and life Resources & Links: Michael West Media - Investigative Journalism on Tax Cheats Spotify Streaming Platform Bandcamp for Artists & Musicians   JC and the Tree  Facebook Instagram    Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr and @Andy Farquharson dive into #employeeownershipAndy founded @abettermonday  and hosts the @alternativeexit podcast. They discuss;Why Employee Ownership is such a viable exit strategy for small business owners The benefits of EO for;How EO has the potential to bridge wealth disparities and enhance productivityThe conversation also covers what's needed to increase the number of successful EO transitions, including;The importance of engaging employees in the ownership transition processThe need for a supportive regulatory framework, and The cultural shifts required for successful implementation. Key takeawaysEmployee ownership can sustain small businesses and local economies.There is a significant productivity increase in employee-owned businesses.Employee ownership requires a cultural shift within organizations.Education and access to data are crucial for employee engagement.Employee ownership can help bridge wealth disparities in communities.Transitioning to employee ownership needs capital and management expertise.The regulatory environment must support employee ownership models.Employee ownership is viable for various types of businesses.Engaging employees early in the ownership conversation is essential.Local investment can enhance the success of employee-owned businesses.Chapters00:00 Exploring Employee Ownership as an Exit Strategy03:15 Andy Farquharson's Journey to Employee Ownership08:04 The Benefits of Employee Ownership for All Stakeholders10:33 The Role of Benevolent Owners in Employee Ownership15:33 Addressing Wealth Disparity and Worker Disengagement19:11 Implementing the Owner Operating System24:10 Common Misunderstandings About Employee Ownership26:24 Engaging Owners in the Employee Ownership Conversation29:44 The Importance of Open Communication in Business Sales30:36 Aligning Incentives for Employee Engagement32:35 Preparing Businesses for Sale: Cultural Changes34:25 The Psychological Barriers of Exit Planning35:04 The Challenge of Business Improvement36:25 Employee Ownership: A Fit for All Businesses?39:48 The Continuum of Employee Ownership Models42:00 The Role of Small Business Owners44:39 Engagement Levels in Employee Ownership45:25 Bringing European Employee Ownership Models to Australia47:19 The Impact of Employee Ownership in Regional Communities49:27 Key Conditions for Successful Employee Ownership51:00 Top Priorities for Small Business Policy54:18 OTO outro 15-4-25.mp3@kerrcapital  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Rebecca Barnett serendipitously acquired the @Maldon Bakery  The Bakery is 154 years old and also the oldest continuously running bakery in Australia. It's a hell of a legacy to take on!Find out how serendipity led her to this historic gem, her challenges in reviving its legacy, and the continuous improvement model that drives her success. From leveraging family history in baking to navigating the complexities of running a business, Rebecca shares her insights on;entrepreneurshipthe importance of community supportthe value of mentorshipthe art of baking Tune in to learn how passion and vision can turn a dream into reality.@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr talks with @Nigel Purchase founder of Chase Basketball. Nigel and his team have just celebrated a 25 year business birthday. A mighty fine effort for this #familybusiness.  Nigel is all in on his business. It's his passion, it's his superannuation and he still loves going to work!In the discussion Nigel reflects on the 25-year journey, talks about his still strong passion for coaching and the positive impact it has on young athletes. He discusses the challenges he faced in the early days, the importance of mentorship, and the unique dynamics of running a family business. The conversation also touches on;the significance of communityhis own business philosophythe joy of doing what you love and the importance of building a supportive team.Takeaways;Early challenges included navigating the popularity of basketball in a competitive sports market.Mentorship played a crucial role in his business development.Family involvement is key to the business's culture and success.Community and belonging are central to the mission of Chase Basketball.Growth is important, but it should not compromise the quality of the programs.A positive work culture is fostered through recognition and supportContentment with one's business and life is a significant achievement.   Chapters00:00 The Journey of Chase Basketball09:19 Challenges and Growth in Business12:36 The Importance of Mentorship16:08 Family and Community in Business20:22 Future Generations and Legacy23:32 Finding Fulfillment in Business28:41 Reflecting on Purpose and Value30:02 Business as a Personal Superannuation32:33 The Balance of Growth and Contentment35:35 Finding Joy in Business and Community39:04 Future Aspirations and Growth in Basketball43:46 Philosophy of Business and Leadership49:10 Navigating Politics and Small Business Challenges@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Host @Michael Kerr and guest @Elise Heslop talk through how and why Elise transitioned from a 'safe and secure' corporate role to life as an entrepreneur. After taking a family sabbatical in Italy, she founded Ply Room, a values-based furniture business. After she successfully sold Ply Room she's headed back to a new role in Corporate as Head of Marketing for @earlypay. A full circle with lots of challenges overcome, lessons learned, and pivotal moments. We dig deep into her experiences of being a solo founder and owner of a #smallbusiness;The importance of trusting your instincts to the realities of running a small businessFinding resilience and adaptabilityThe highs and lows of business ownershipThe courage it takes to follow your own pathElise's family sabbatical in Italy as a pivotal moment in her careerThe realities of small business ownership - loneliness, stressTrying to find balance between business and personal lifeElise shares insights on finding a supportive networkWhat it's like to start then sell a business Chapters00:00:00 Introduction to Elise Heslop00:03:00 From Corporate to Entrepreneurship00:09:00 Founding Ply Room00:15:00 Challenges and Lessons Learned00:21:00 The Importance of Instincts00:27:00 Balancing Business and Personal Life00:33:00 Conclusion and Reflections@kerrcapital   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

In this compelling episode of "Owner to Owner," host Michael Kerr dives deep with Dr. Craig West, the visionary founder of Succession Plus. Together, they unpick the transformative power of employee ownership programs and their profound impact on business value and succession planning. Discover how and why these strategies not only enhance business resilience but also foster community well-being. Dr. West shares invaluable insights on;How employee ownership programs can significantly enhance business value.Why early exit planning is crucial for business success.How employee share plans help retain key staff and improve business resilience.Why understanding business value is so essential for business owners.How succession planning benefits both businesses and communities.Employee ownership as a strategic exit option.Why employee share plans are gaining popularity in AustraliaChapters00:00:00 Introduction to Employee Ownership00:00:00 Benefits of Employee Share Plans00:00:00 Valuation and Exit Planning00:00:00 Succession Planning in Australia00:00:00 Community Impact and Business Resilience  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Gabe Villarreal founder, business buyer and business growth adviser on scaling a liquor business to a million dollars in monthly revenue. We discuss strategies for over coming the practical challenges of scaling and exiting businesses, as well as the merits of 'holding' businesses rather than selling. He stresses the importance of imperfect action, learning from failures, and having options in business. Gabe also talks about his experiences in different industries and countries, and the significance of building a business with an exit strategy in mind.TakeawaysThe importance of imperfect action over waiting for perfection.Learning from failures.Having options in business is more important than the exit itself.Building a business with an exit strategy in mind is essential.Cash flow management is critical for business survival.Acquiring an established business can be more efficient than starting from scratch.@michael kerr @kerr capital   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Jacquie Riddell is an experienced #NFP leader and current chair of the @CBAA. The NFP or #ThirdSector is presenting huge challenges to leadership, employees and the many volunteers. Jacquie and host @Michael Kerr talk about;Financial sustainabilityMergers & Acquisitions in the NFP sectorThe impact of overcrowding in the charity sectorThe need for adopting new and better business models and #tech to improve effectivenessGovernance, collaboration, and the role of philanthropyThe future of charitiesThe phenomenon of 'accidental retirement' (read Jacquie's article on this here https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7334094500333531138/How professionals can transition from corporate roles to the not-for-profit sectorSome key takeawaysNot-for-profits need reliable cash, not just goodwill.The charity sector is overcrowded with over 60,000 charities in Australia.Passion alone is not enough; capability is essential.Successful charities adopt business models similar to for-profits.Governance is critical for the growth of not-for-profits.Mergers and collaborations can enhance sustainability in the charity sector.Philanthropy is a major opportunity for charities, especially during wealth transfer.Post-COVID challenges include reduced revenue and volunteerism.B Corps represent a growing trend in socially responsible business.Chapters:00:00 The Role of Not-for-Profits in Society05:15 Challenges and Opportunities in the Charity Sector10:08 Adopting Business Models in Not-for-Profits15:06 Governance and Capability in Charities20:25 Social Enterprises and Merging Opportunities25:18 Collaborative Solutions in Community Broadcasting27:04 The Importance of Sustainable Revenue28:59 The Rise of B Corporations and Social Responsibility31:11 Governance and Effective Leadership in Nonprofits33:22 The Reality of Nonprofit Work and Organizational Capacity35:36 Funding Challenges and Opportunities for Charities37:54 Navigating Post-COVID Challenges in the Charity Sector39:33 Accidental Retirement: A New Perspective on Career Transitions41:10 Policy Recommendations for the Charity Sector@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr welcomes @David Brudenell Executive Director from @decidr.ai discuss the challenges and opportunities for Australian SMEs in adopting AI strategies. They explore the National AI Readiness Index launched by Decidr,  the importance of system design, and how AI can transform small businesses. The conversation delves into the potential of AI to provide #SMEs with the equivalent of thousands of employees, the role of agentic platforms, and the need for businesses to adapt to the fast-paced AI landscape.Takeaways:SMEs need a system built for action, not just beliefMost businesses lack a plan to integrate AI effectivelyAI can provide SMEs with the equivalent of thousands of employeesSystem design is crucial for successful AI integrationAI is a horizontal technology that thrives on contextAgentic platforms can unshackle businesses from administrative tasksAI can transform hospitality by handling bookings and customer serviceSMEs have the most to gain from AI but are at risk of being outpacedAI can help businesses scale and become more resilient@kerrcapital  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr speaks with @Vicki Likoudis from True North Buyers Advocates about the opportunities for tenants and buyers in favorable commercial property market cycle. Vicki sees the opportunity being available for another 6-9 months.They discuss how small business owners can take advantage of this cycle to negotiate a better lease or acquire a commercial property.It's a tenant's market right now, making negotiation crucial.Vicki shares her extensive background in small business and her role as a buyer's advocate, emphasizing the importance of understanding the market cycle, negotiation strategies, and the emotional aspects of property acquisition. They discuss;How buying advocacy can help clients navigate property purchases and leases.The challenges and opportunities presented by the current market conditionsThe significance of community ownershipWhy Commercial property can be emotional for business owners.Government support is needed for small business funding and mental healthNegotiation strategies can lead to significant savings for tenantsChapters 00:00 Introduction to Commercial Property Opportunities01:01 Vicki's Background in Small Business04:51 Understanding the Role of a Buyer's Advocate08:13 Current Market Cycle for Commercial Property11:10 Navigating Vacant Commercial Properties13:59 Exploring Off-Market Opportunities15:28 Consultative Approach to Property Acquisition18:29 Benefits of Buying vs. Leasing Commercial Property20:57 Landlord-Tenant Relationships and Negotiations22:21 Negotiating Commercial Leases: A Win-Win Approach25:09 Regional vs. Metro: Understanding Property Dynamics28:06 Community Ownership: A New Model for Local Businesses31:03 The Challenges of Community-Driven Business Models33:33 The Importance of Local Businesses in Regional Economies37:13 Government Support for Small Businesses: A Call to Action  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr and @Farhan Rehman, co-founder of @Habibi Chicken,  a family business founded in #WaggaWagga. Farhan shares 'the journey' of creating, expanding, taking on Melbourne and building a community based, legacy business. We talk about;the challenges and triumphs of entrepreneurshipthe importance of communitythe drive to create opportunities in regional areashow diverse talent and cultural exchange contribute to building resilient businesses and vibrant communitiesregional entrepreneurshipimmigration policy and economic development, and leveraging these dynamics for sustainable growthresilienceskills shortagescreating a brand with purpose and legacy@Habibi Chicken @kerrcapital@rehmansheriffgroup  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr welcomes @Stephen Greenwood, Global CEO of @Valloop, and @Hunter Page, Australian Director of Valloop, to discuss the transformative power of employee ownership. Valloop via its @platform is reshaping the landscape for SMEs, offering innovative solutions for business transitions, and empowering employees to become legitimate buyers.We talk about;The rise of employee ownership and its impact on SMEsWhy employee ownership is becoming a vital consideration for business owners worldwideValloop's unique platform and its role in facilitating business transitionsThe benefits of employee ownership for businesses and local communitiesThe rise of employees as business buyers successfully acquire and manage businesses.The need for better and wider education on Employee Ownership   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Phil Gregory from @EWaterSystems joins host @Michael Kerr. They discuss Phil's  journey from various jobs to creating a sustainable cleaning technology company tackling a global problem from Australia. This is valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and covers;the importance of purpose and profitraising capital and funding growthtechnology licencingnavigating big competitorsthe importance of exit planning, andthe significance of becoming a B Corp.TakeawaysHow Phil Gregory's diverse career path led him to start eWater Systems.The importance of purpose and profit in business.How Phil's personal experiences with environmental issues fueled his passion for change.Building strong client relationships is crucial for business success.Navigating competition from established chemical companies is a significant challenge.Having a clear exit strategy can guide business growth and decisions.Becoming a B Corp aligns with eWater's mission of sustainability.The future of eWater Systems involves expanding awareness and market presence.Government regulations can create unnecessary challenges for small businesses.It's a really informative listen on the what's and how's that have  propelled eWater Systems to the forefront of sustainable innovation.Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more insightful episodes! Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Join @tracy fryer from @designstudioperth and @michael kerr as we explore the art of branding. Tracy shares her journey from a creative entrepreneur to a branding expert, offering valuable insights into how small businesses can craft a compelling brand identity. Learn about the essential elements of branding, the importance of understanding your target audience, and how a strong brand can drive business success.Key Highlights:Tracy's entrepreneurial journey and the birth of Design Studio PerthThe three pillars of effective branding: messaging, visual identity, and media. Real-world examples of branding success and challenges.Takeaways:Brand Identity as a North Star: A well-defined brand identity serves as a guiding compass for all marketing efforts, ensuring consistency and clarity in messaging and visuals.Understanding the Ideal Client: Identifying and focusing on your ideal client is crucial for creating a brand that resonates and attracts the right audience, leading to more effective marketing strategies.Beyond Logos: The Three Pillars of Branding: Successful branding encompasses messaging, visual identity, and media, all aligned to create a cohesive and compelling brand presence.Branding as a Growth Catalyst: A strong brand not only differentiates a business in a crowded market but also adds value, enhancing business growth and sustainability.Emotional Connection and Trust: Branding is about evoking emotions and building trust with your audience, which can lead to increased loyalty and long-term success. Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr and @Graham Stephen, founder of @BizVal Global, discuss #businessvaluation for small and medium enterprises (SMEs). With "85 to 95% of small businesses not sellable" we discuss the imperative for owners and advisers to understand business value today so they can begin proactively increasing it from tomorrow. Graham explains why forward-looking valuations are the key to helping business owners make informed decisions.They explore Graham's journey into entrepreneurship and his fascinating global perspective on business valuation,TakeawaysBusiness valuation is often overlooked until a sale is imminent.Many business owners do not understand the true value of their business.Regular valuations can help business owners make informed decisions.Owner dependency is a critical factor in business valuation.Valuation should be a forward-looking process, not just historical.Understanding cash profits is more important than revenue figures.The compliance aspect of valuation can limit its effectiveness.Data accuracy is essential for credible valuations.Removing red tape can foster a better environment for SMEs.Access to funding is crucial for small business growth.Chapters00:00 Introduction to BizVal Global and Its Purpose02:32 Graham's Journey to Entrepreneurship05:27 Understanding Business Valuation Importance08:43 The 85% of Unsellable Businesses12:13 Global Perspectives on Business Valuation14:25 Choosing the Right Valuation Approach18:43 The Valuation Process Explained21:40 Key Valuation Drivers for Business Owners24:39 The Role of Accountants in Valuation27:36 Valuation Multiples and Their Implications30:39 Understanding Business Valuation: Buyers and Multiples34:30 The Impact of Business Age and Owner Dependency38:33 Mitigating Risks: Insurance and Business Preparedness39:28 Data Sources and Valuation Challenges43:21 Valuation Process: A Comprehensive Approach49:23 Valuation Gaps: Realistic Expectations and Deal Structures52:10 Improving Australia's SME Landscape: Key Recommendations@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

In this conversation, @Michael Kerr and @Amy Christopherson, founder of @Grounded HR, discuss her pathway into small business ownership, the importance of HR in small businesses, and the challenges faced by business owners. They explore the significance of leadership in employee engagement, navigating difficult conversations, and building a positive workplace culture. Amy shares insights on #exit planning, #employee ownership, and the impact of #remote work on business operations. The discussion emphasizes the need for a growth mindset and the importance of focusing on people within organizations.Takeaways;Amy started Grounded HR while traveling Australia.HR should be accessible to small businesses from day one.Disengaged employees can sacrifice profit.Business owners need to learn people management skills.Difficult conversations are acts of kindness.Small gestures can build a positive workplace culture.Remote work has changed employee expectations.Exit planning is crucial for business resilience.Employee ownership can be a viable transition strategy.A growth mindset is essential for business leaders.  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Host @Michael Kerr speaks with @Honor Northam about her journey in business ownership and her advocacy for employee ownership. They discuss the challenges and benefits of transitioning to employee ownership trusts (EOTs), the impact of small businesses on local communities, and the cultural barriers that hinder the adoption of employee ownership in Australia. Honor shares her experiences with her bakery, @Honorbread, and how with limited formal business qualifications she has successfully run multiple businesses.The discussion covers;the upside of employees having a real stake in the companies they work for#employeeownership as a way to reward those who contribute to a business's success.how transitioning to an employee ownership trust can be financially beneficial for business ownerswhy #communityimpact is a significant consideration for small business owners when thinking about #exitplanninghow small businesses play a crucial role in supporting local communitieswhy understanding #EOTs is essential for business transitions.why cultural perceptions of ownership can hinder the adoption of employee ownership models.why regular business valuations are important for planning transitionshow the future of employee ownership in Australia is promising but requires more advocacy and understanding.Chapters00:00 Introduction to Employee Ownership02:47 Honor's Business Journey and Employee Ownership Experience05:59 Challenges and Misconceptions in Employee Ownership09:09 Financial Benefits of Employee Ownership11:56 Transitioning Businesses to Employee Ownership15:01 Community Impact and Responsibility18:01 Supporting Local Youth and Employment20:52 The Complexity of Business Succession24:09 Opportunities in Employee Ownership26:09 Exploring Employee Ownership Trusts (EOTs)29:20 Challenges of Employee Buy-In32:30 Cultural Perceptions of Employee Ownership37:43 Valuing Business Equity and Its Implications  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Rosy McEvedy founder of @IV League Drips, shares her entrepreneurial journey.Rosy founded the business in 2018 and has grown it to nearly 200 licensees.She faced two major setbacks in her entrepreneurial journey.The first setback was a partnership that ended poorly due to lack of compatibility.Rosy's background in pharmacy and nursing influenced her business direction.Rosy shares her personal take on the;Importance of #resilienceComplexities of #businesspartnershipsValue of self-awareness in businessNeed for thorough research and understanding when entering partnerships and the significance of hiring the right people to fill gaps in a business.The conversation covers Rosy's innovative licensing model in the health industry, aiming to make preventative health services accessible across Australia. TakeawaysShe highlights the importance of hiring over partnerships for business growth.Rosy's resilience and determination have been key to her success. Every business owner faces moments of doubt.Support from friends and mentors is crucial.Learning from setbacks builds resilience.Purpose should drive business decisions.A strong network can lead to opportunities.Financial health is vital for business growth.Mentorship can provide invaluable guidance.The importance of a purpose-driven approach.Building a sustainable business model is key.Networking can open doors to new opportunities.rosy@ivleaguedrips.com @michael kerr @kerrcapital Chapters00:00 Introduction to IV League Drips02:23 Rosy's Journey and Business Background10:00 First Major Setback: The Partnership24:40 Second Setback: Financial Distress and Lessons Learned28:03 Overcoming Financial Setbacks34:00 The Importance of Support Systems38:57 Purpose-Driven Business50:56 Mentorship and Guidance for Growth Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr and @Jon Manning on why #pricing is the biggest lever for improving profitability. They discuss using pricing strategies as a highly effective way to increase small business profitability. They explore the #psychology behind pricing, the common hesitations business owners face when considering price increases, and the importance of effectively communicating these changes to customers. They cover innovative pricing tactics, the significance of choice architecture in proposals, and the necessity of establishing a systematic pricing cadence.Key takeouts;the need for businesses to understand their value propositionhow and when to reassess pricing models to ensure sustainability and growthwhy business owners need to engage in meaningful discussions with their customers about value and pricingthe importance of understanding the different 'business unit' within a business when considering price changesthe psychological aspects of pricing that affect customer perceptionshow reframing pricing discussions as value conversations can helpChapters00:00 Introduction to Pricing Strategies09:37 The Psychology of Pricing and Business Owner Hesitation18:34 Communicating Price Changes Effectively23:07 Understanding Customer Value and Pricing Conversations31:08 Reassessing Pricing Models for Profitability37:41 Understanding Pricing Complexity40:00 Innovative Pricing Tactics47:12 The Power of Choice Architecture55:48 The Psychology of Pricing01:01:39 Establishing a Pricing Cadence01:10:26 Government and Pricing Dynamics@kerrcapital@pricing prophets   Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Marama Carmichael shares her pathway  that started in science and now sees her as founder and CEO of @Oracle Tree, a full-stack digital marketing agency. She discusses the pivotal moments that led her to start Oracle Tree, emphasizing the importance of empowering business owners and better understanding their needs. Marama highlights the challenges many business owners face, including the tendency to create 'Frankenstein' businesses that are reactive rather than strategic. She advocates for financial literacy, mentorship, and the need for external perspectives in business. The conversation also touches on her book, 'Fixing Frankenstein,' which aims to help business owners take charge of their operations and make informed decisions.Marama's journey reflects the importance of adaptability in business.Empowering business owners is at the core of Oracle Tree's mission.Asking 'why' can lead to deeper insights for business owners.Many business owners create reactive 'Frankenstein' businesses.Financial literacy is crucial for business resilience.Mentorship can provide valuable external perspectives.Strategic marketing spending is essential for growth.Curiosity can drive innovation and improvement in business.Understanding client needs is key to effective marketing.Creating a supportive business environment fosters success.@michael kerr@kerr capital 00:00Introduction to Marama Carmichael and Oracle Tree02:29Marama's Journey: From Natural Therapies to Digital Marketing05:12Empowering Business Owners: The Philosophy Behind Oracle Tree07:45Understanding Client Needs: The Importance of Asking 'Why?'10:28The Challenges of Business Ownership: Navigating Flux and Reactivity13:24Creating a Sustainable Business: The Role of Strategy16:18Choosing the Right Clients: Culture Fit and Business Success19:01The Importance of Self-Reflection for Business Owners21:48Oracle Tree's Services: A Comprehensive Approach to Marketing28:05Strategic Financial Management in Business30:23The Importance of Mentorship and Guidance32:49Understanding Business Structure and Roles37:21The Need for Holistic Business Perspectives39:03The Value of External Insights and Mentorship43:48Curiosity and Continuous Learning in Business47:27Key Priorities for Small Business Resilience Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@bill withers is founder of @the Adapt Way and author of 'Succession Thinking'. In this conversation, Michael and Bill discuss the challenges and strategies for building resilient businesses, emphasizing the importance of shifting from a short-term profit mindset to a long-term vision. Bill shares his journey from a challenging upbringing in #Kununurra to becoming a successful entrepreneur and business leader. The conversation delves into key themes;the importance of stewardship in small and medium enterprises (SMEs), the lessons learned from selling his business Acquire, the vision behind his current venture, ADAPT, which aims to support SME owners in building resilient businesses,the need for leadership development within SMEs, and the significance of creating a supportive community for business owners. They explore the need for;Role clarity, Trust in business culture, and The legislative changes required to support small and medium enterprises (SMEs). Bill highlights the significance of decision-making infrastructure and the need to rethink capital distribution to empower SMEs. The discussion culminates in the idea that business owners should focus on creating options and flexibility rather than viewing selling as the only exit strategy.Takeaways;Stewardship is crucial for the success of SMEs.Business owners often feel overwhelmed and isolated.Leadership development is essential for SME growth.The sale of a business should be approached strategically.Bill's upbringing influenced his passion for supporting SMEs.ADAPT aims to create a supportive community for business owners.The distribution of wealth and power is vital for a healthy economy.Business owners need to clarify their roles for better outcomes.Building capabilities is key to successful business ownership. It's a binary thing; working hard doesn't guarantee success.Return on vision is often more important than return on investment.Building a resilient business requires new practices and habits.Role clarity is essential for effective decision-making.Trust is the key to optimizing business culture.SMEs need different legislation than large corporations.Capital distribution must be rethought to support SMEs.Culture is built on trust and authenticity.Business owners should focus on choices, not just selling.Maximizing the probability of achieving business goals is crucial.@kerrcapital@Michael Kerr  Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@jaryd krause is an Online Business M&A Advisor with deep experience growing 7 & 8 Figure Online Businesses. In this discussion we talk about the huge potential for offline business owners to leverage online assets for grow, and also how to take advantage of the opportunities.Jaryd shares his personal back story. From starting as a plumbing apprentice to becoming a leading M&A advisor in Online Businesses.The conversation covers how traditional businesses can;leverage online platformsresolve major business challenges, including lead generationcreate new revenue streamssave time and resources with a smart acquisitionWe also talk about;Why marketplaces like @Flippa are valuable resources for buying online businessesthe evolution of business models and the opportunities being created as a consequence the critical aspects of assessing online business opportunitieslearning from past mistakes, and strategies for small business growththe significance of mentorship and the need for small businesses to innovate and share best practices for successassessing financials and traffic sources when buying online businessesChapters00:00Introduction to Online Business Acquisition02:59Jared's Journey from Plumbing to Online Business06:09The Synergy of Online and Offline Businesses08:56Acquisition Strategies for Business Growth11:46Leveraging Online Assets for Offline Success15:06Exploring Marketplaces for Online Business Acquisition18:01Understanding Business Valuation and Multiples21:10Navigating the Online Business Landscape23:51The Future of Business: Online and Offline Integration26:42Diversifying Business Models32:06Assessing Online Business Opportunities36:03Learning from Mistakes in Acquisitions40:12Strategies for Small Business Growth44:05Empowering Small Businesses for Success Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@gabe enslin from @the adapt way and @michael kerr discuss the importance of building resilience in small and medium businesses. They explore Gabe's diverse background, the Adapt mission, and the critical role of business owners in shaping their companies' futures. The conversation covers;the need for owners to clarify what they want from their business and then align their business strategies accordinglythe importance of resilience, culture, and role clarityGabe shares case studies of successful business transformations, emphasizing the need for a high-performance culture and effective ownership frameworks. They explore the vision for the future of ADAPT, along with policy recommendations to support SMEs. The discussion highlights the significance of understanding employee needs and fostering an engaging work environment to drive business success.Some key takeaways;Many owners desire time back rather than just growth.Understanding the owner's vision is key to business success.Clarity of purpose can transform business strategies.Resilient businesses are more valuable than those set up solely for sale.The impact of a business extends beyond financial metrics.Owners often want to contribute positively to their communities.Effective communication of desires is essential for business alignment. Having clear conversations about what you want is crucial.Building a resilient infrastructure enables sustainable growth.Cultural metrics can improve even during rapid growth.Role clarity is essential for high-performing teams.Engaged employees lead to better business performance.Creating a high-quality entry for new hires is vital.Understanding employee aspirations enhances retention.Partnerships can alleviate the loneliness of business ownership."It has to start with the owner""What do you want?""I want time back"Chapters00:00Introduction to the Owner to Owner Podcast01:46Gabe Enslin's Journey and Background12:51Understanding the ADAPT Way16:12The Importance of Owner's Vision20:01Identifying Owner's True Desires22:49Aligning Business Strategy with Owner's Goals30:22Building Resilient vs. Sellable Businesses33:10Navigating Business Transformation34:29Case Studies of Success36:56Building Resilience in Business38:07The Importance of Culture40:33Role Clarity and Employee Engagement42:28Creating a High-Performance Culture44:33Stewardship and Ownership Dynamics46:42Designing Ownership Frameworks49:39The Journey of Business Partnerships54:29Vision for the Future of ADAPT55:31Recommended Reads for Business Owners57:02Policy Recommendations for SMEs Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

In this episode of Small Business Banter, @Michael Kerr and @Mark Fletcher discuss the evolution and future of independent retailers, particularly news agencies. Mark shares insights from his experience with News Express and Tower Systems, emphasizing the importance of adapting to change, leveraging technology, and understanding market dynamics. The conversation highlights the critical role of independent retailers in communities and the need for them to embrace innovation to thrive in a competitive landscape. In this conversation, Michael and Mark Fletcher discuss the journey of transitioning a long-standing business, the importance of local businesses in building sustainable communities, and the complexities involved in selling a business. Mark shares his experiences with various acquisition processes, the significance of maintaining business performance during transitions, and the emotional challenges of business ownership. They also touch on the need for government support for small businesses and the potential benefits of politicians gaining firsthand experience in small business operations.Takeaways;Independent retailers are crucial for community engagement.Evolving product offerings is essential for survival.Technology can significantly enhance retail operations.Retailers must adapt to changing consumer preferences.Online presence is vital for modern retail success.Data-driven decisions can improve profitability.Successful retailers embrace change and innovation.Community-focused businesses can thrive despite challenges.Understanding market trends is key to growth.Retailers should leverage insights from their point of sale systems. Building sustainable communities relies on thriving local businesses.Navigating the complexities of business transitions requires careful planning.Timing is crucial when considering the sale of a business.Maintaining business performance during a sale is essential for value.Defining roles post-acquisition can help ease the transition.Business ownership can be a lonely journey, requiring support systems.Preparing for a business sale should be an ongoing process.Legislating for small business awareness can change political perspectives.Reforming government procurement can better support small businesses.Small businesses play a vital role in providing employment and community stability.Sound Bites"Retailers need to embrace change.""I love your pathway out of school.""Make every day a payday.""Small businesses give people a start."Chapters00:00The Evolution of Independent Retailers15:10Adapting to Change in Retail29:59Leveraging Technology for Growth28:52Navigating the Complexities of Business Transition32:36The Importance of Timing in Business Sales34:48Maintaining Business Performance During Transition39:31Defining Roles Post-Acquisition42:08The Loneliness of Business Ownership44:25Preparing for a Successful Business Sale48:22Legislating for Small Business Awareness50:27Reforming Government Procurement for Small Business Support@kerrcapital @ownertoownerpodcast.com.au    Thanks for listening. Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Geo George from @Mayfly Ventures discusses the innovative approach of his venture studio, focusing on investing in both new and existing businesses. He emphasizes the importance of navigating uncertainty in the startup world and how AI can serve as a transformative tool for businesses. The conversation also highlights the value of 'boring businesses' and how they can be revitalized through technology and strategic partnerships. Geo shares insights on successful ventures in hospitality and MedTech, and offers practical advice for small businesses looking to leverage AI for growth."We're aiming to do things 2% better, but thousands of times."TakeawaysMayfly Ventures focuses on the intersection of strategy, creativity, and technology.The venture studio model increases the chances of success for new startups.Navigating uncertainty is a key aspect of the startup mindset.AI can enhance business processes and drive efficiency.Boring businesses often hold significant value and potential for growth.Successful ventures often stem from deep domain expertise and understanding of customer needs.The integration of AI into business processes is crucial for staying competitive.Small businesses can leverage AI for customer service and marketing.Documentation and understanding of business processes can lead to meaningful improvements.Investors are increasingly interested in businesses that can demonstrate execution capability."Boring businesses are great businesses."Chapters00:00 - Introduction to Mayfly Ventures and GA George02:50 - The Venture Studio Model: Investing in New and Existing Businesses06:01 - Navigating Uncertainty: The Startup Mindset08:50 - The Role of AI in Business Transformation11:53 - Boring Businesses: The Hidden Gems of Investment15:02 - Case Studies: Successful Ventures in Hospitality and MedTech18:11 - Practical Steps for Small Businesses to Leverage AI21:09 - Conclusion: Embracing Change and Innovation@michael kerr@kerr capital   Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@tamara simon discusses the challenges owners face, the value of financial awareness, and the necessity of breaking the cycle of overwork to achieve a more profitable and enjoyable business. Tamara shares insights from her book, 'The Five Little Business Pigs', which outlines strategies for building a successful business. The discussion highlights the importance of reflection and understanding one's business dynamics to foster growth and sustainability. In this conversation, Tamara and @Michael Kerr cover;the importance of clarity in rolesthe necessity of #businesscoachingthe need for strong foundational systemsthe impact of leadership behavior on staff morale and productivity.Some takeaways;Success in business is often a jagged line, not a straight path.Many small business owners have expensive hobbies instead of profitable businesses.There is a system in everything; it's about finding it.Owners should aim to work in their sweet spot 80% of the time.Time management is crucial for small business owners.Turnover is not the only measure of success; profitability matters more.It's important to consciously choose the price of your commitments.Most businesses have room for improvement. Every business should have a coach.Understanding your numbers is crucial for success.Business systems are essential for clarity and productivity.Behavioral change in leadership is key to business success.Small business owners should embrace their role with pride.Reflection on business viability is necessary for growth.Coaching provides a sounding board for business frustrations.Strong foundations are built on clear roles and responsibilities.Employee engagement is vital for a thriving business.The journey of business ownership requires bravery and commitment.@kerrcapital  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

Host @Michael Kerr and @Ronan Leonard  a certified innovation professional and business mentor discuss Ronan's journey from an accidental entrepreneur to mentor in the small business space. The conversation delves into the; how to overcome the daily challenges faced by small business ownersneed for innovation and adaptation in a rapidly changing marketnavigating stagnation in businesssignificance of allocating time and resources for innovation, and the various business models that can be exploredvalue of networking and learning from peers to drive business growth. In this conversation, Michael and Ronan explore various strategies for business growth;AI toolsEffective delegationMarketing and innovation Ronan shares insights from his 100-day startup challenge ( https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/start-up-to-profit-in-100-days-7231519804916912128/ ) TakeawaysInformation is abundant, but context is often lacking.Business owners often need an external perspective to see new possibilities.Taking a step back can lead to greater long-term success.Understanding different business models is crucial for growth.Networking with peers can provide valuable insights and solutions.Allocating time for innovation is essential for sustainability.The market evolves, and businesses must adapt to stay relevant.Intrinsic motivation drives small business owners to push through challenges. There are various ways to bring expertise into a business without hiring full-time employees.Insourcing allows businesses to utilize external resources intelligently.AI has the potential to disrupt job markets significantly.Business owners should explore AI tools to enhance productivity.Delegating tasks can free up time for business owners to focus on their strengths.Real-world applications of insourcing can lead to significant cost savings.Creating content efficiently can be achieved through effective team collaboration.Marketing and innovation are crucial for business growth.Community engagement and mentorship can enhance business success.Learning from mistakes is essential for business development.@kerrcapital  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Claude Trimboli from @charlesandco talks about the complexities of business liquidation and restructuring. The discussion covers the critical importance of understanding cash flow, the role of early intervention in financial distress, and the emotional toll on business owners facing insolvency. Claudio emphasizes the need for proactive measures, mental health awareness, and the collaborative approach necessary for navigating these challenging situations. The discussion highlights the significance of having a solid grasp of financial numbers and the value of seeking help from trusted advisors.Other important discussion topics include;the responsibilities of business ownersproactive measures to avoid insolvencythe importance of engaging with the #ATOthe new #smallbusinessrestructuringregime  that allows owners to maintain control while addressing their financial challengesthe legal obligation not to trade while insolventwhy understanding financial numbers is crucial for business healthCloud accounting tools to provide better financial insightswhy and how business owners should not be defined by their financial strugglesprioritising mental health and physical well-being@michaelkerr@kerrcapital https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2020-12/simplified-debt-restructuring-fact-sheet_0.pdf Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

Olga Koskie from Tax Assure updates us on the ATO's plan to recover outstanding tax  debts owed by Australian businesses.Post covid19 the ATO is now actively chasing $52B in outstanding business tax debt. "The ATO has had a huge public shift and an internal shift that they're back to an active collection mode."If you're carrying ATO debt (that's been around longer than the last few months) and have treated them as a financier over recent years you're likely now in the firing line to be chased down The consequences of not actively managing this debt down, in conjunction with the ATO, are dramatic e.g. Director Penalty Notices, garnishing of bank accounts, statutory demands, and even bankruptcy. In this episode Olga talks about;the importance of taking proactive actionthe next steps you need to takewho you can engage to helpthe  and seeking help to address the debtthe need for business owners to understand their cash flow and work with specialists to develop tailored payment plans that are sustainable and match their financial situationOlga also encourages business owners to be kind to themselves and not feel ashamed or embarrassed about their debt."If you don't do anything, they won't put you on a payment plan. They will initiate recovery action against you."Michael KerrKerr Capital Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@James Meldrum, co-founder of @Whole Kids, shares the journey of starting and growing a purpose-driven business in the organic food industry. He talks about how he and his co-founder wife Monica tackled the many challenges they faced over 18 years and up until entering Voluntary Administration late in 2023. "We lost about a third of our revenue overnight because we were servicing the airlines with kids meals and special meals."Like a lot of startups the business was initially self-funded with some contributions from family and friends. Later they tapped into bank lending and debtor finance to support their growth. Eventually, they conducted a successful crowdfunding campaign to bring in more investors. The discussion spans; 3 potential sales of the business - the emotional highs and distraction they bring to founders dealing with the pressures of growththe impact of external events like COVID-19, and the importance of personal well-being. James shares his insights on the need for founders to prioritize their own mental health and find a balance between business growth and personal valuesJames'  plans to help other founders and startups through his consultancyOverall, the conversation highlights the highs and lows of entrepreneurship and the lessons learned along the way.Key takeawaysWhy starting a purpose-driven business in a niche market requires perseverance but also a strong alignment of personal values with the business missionThe extra challenges female co-founders need to deal withFocus on finding investors who understand and appreciate the business's purpose and valuesPotential acquisition discussions can be complex and require careful consideration of cultural fit and alignment of valuesHanding over a business to a good home can provide an opportunity for founders to take a step back, capitalize on their hard work, and focus on personal and family prioritiesHow dealing with the pressure to constantly grow can adds complexity and stress to a businessFocus on a growth rate that is sustainable and aligned with personal valuesExternal events like COVID-19 can have a significant impact on a business, and being financially strong and structurally sound can help weather the stormFounders should prioritize their own mental health and well-being, and seek support from trusted friends or advisors who can provide a listening ear and guidanceBusinesses can make a positive impact and thrive by aligning their purpose and values with their operations, and focusing on both profit and impact.Sharing experiences and lessons learned can be valuable for other founders and startups, and providing support and guidance can help them navigate the challenges of entrepreneurship"Even if you're looking at employing someone or bringing on someone as an investor, if you think you can sit next to this person on a plane for three hours and have great in-depth conversations, then they're the right person to bring in."  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Natasha Hawker  founder of @Employee Matters discusses the importance of employees in small businesses, and the impact they have on business performance. Natasha emphasizes the need for exceptional HR practices and the role they play in driving business growth and sustainability. She also discusses the current employment relations landscape and the importance of compliance. Natasha provides insights into the red flags that small business owners should be aware of and the benefits of outsourcing HR services. She concludes by discussing the significance of employee ownership and the role it plays in business success and potential sale. The conversation explores;the importance of investing in personal and professional development for both business owners and employeesthe need for business owners to have a growth mindset and actively seek opportunities to learn and improvethe benefits of employee ownership and how it can increase engagement and motivationthe significance of creating a compelling employee value proposition and fostering a transparent and inclusive work environmentthe use of advisory boards and networking with other business owners is also recommended as a way to gain valuable insights and support.Natasha made it very clear how your employees have such a significant impact on the performance and success of small businesses. This short video beautifully categorises the 4 types of employees and provides a framework for business owners to better manage their #employeeassets. https://share.vidyard.com/watch/qVFVgq3EKyYakjSjQkGCEN?vyetoken=fa04c069-8443-4adb-b9b9-c9ca0dae4ae4&portalId=20625731TakeawaysExceptional HR practices are crucial for business growth and sustainability.  For more information on better managing the 7 main HR risks you should read this ebook from Employee Matters (https://app.hubspot.com/documents/20625731/view/791072601?accessId=a9b9bb)Small business owners should be aware of red flags such as pay secrecy and compliance with employment relations legislation.Outsourcing HR services can provide expertise and support for small businesses without a full-time HR resource.Employee ownership can contribute to business success and potential sale. Investing in personal and professional development is crucial for business owners to improve their skills and knowledge.Employee ownership can increase engagement and motivation among employees.Creating a compelling employee value proposition and fostering transparency and inclusivity are important for attracting and retaining high-quality employees.Advisory boards and networking with other business owners can provide valuable insights and support.@kerrcapital@michaelkerr  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Ken Matthews, founder of @Matthew Steer, shares the long but successful journey from growing to selling a mid-tier financial services firm. He talks about the importance of scaling, the three stages of growth and the challenges of transitioning from a sales-driven mode to an operational mode. "Stepping back and becoming a CEO is a significant step and not an easy one for any entrepreneur."Ken and I talk a lot about the process of selling, and what he sees as the most critical for getting a successful result;the  value of finding the right buyer.the need for consistency and a shared vision when entering into joint ownership modelthe importance of strategic planning and financial analysisusing an #advisoryboardsknowing their retirement numberconstantly work on improving the value of their business, andthe importance of having a strong support network, including mentors and advisory boards.Ken has dealt with many business owners over many years. The triggers for them seeking his services can range from;recognising that their current strategies are no longer working and realising they need to become more sophisticated in their operationsconcerns about succession planning, tounexpected approaches from potential buyers.Key Takeaways;Scaling is crucial in the financial services sector to attract and retain talent and provide a broader range of services to clients.Transitioning from a sales-driven mode to an operational mode requires letting go and delegating responsibilities to focus on running the business.When selling a business, it is important to find a buyer who aligns with the company's culture and vision.Joint ownership models can provide opportunities for growth and innovation, but it requires compatibility and consistency between partners.Advising small business owners involves conducting a deep dive into their financials, creating a strategic plan, and implementing corporate governance to drive growth. Business owners often seek help when their current strategies are no longer effective and they need to become more sophisticated in their operations.Triggers for seeking advisory services can include concerns about succession planning and unexpected approaches from potential buyers.It is important for business owners to know their retirement number and constantly work on improving the value of their business.Having a strong support network, including mentors and advisory boards, can provide valuable guidance and help navigate the emotional roller coaster of selling a business.@kerrcapital@familybusinessaustralia  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Darren Clark is the founder at @Dazlab where he and the team work with  founders, business owners, creatives, technology people, and investors to get digital products off the ground and to market. Darren started because he knew there was a better way to build digital products for people with great business ideas who needed help to build their vision. And he brought significant personal business experience, and some battle scars to starting Dazlab;co-founded a digital creative agency, called Webling, where we won many, many local and international awards over a decade.founded real estate startup (Kohab)  in the USAIn this episode Darrenshares his experiences as a multiple business founder, and the impact of exiting or near-exiting businessesdiscusses the importance of building custom software to create revenue and assets for small businessesreflects on the lessons learned from selling a business and the process of starting a new ventureemphasises the need for efficiency and specialization in business operations, and the importance of considering an exit planhighlights the value of external advice and emotional support during the sale process and the importance of building relationships with potential acquirersdiscusses the value of automating business processes and how it can make a business more efficient and profitableshares case studies and highlights the importance of playing to your strengths and seeking professional help when neededrecommends @Startups for the Rest of Us podcast@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

Host @Michael Kerr and @Martin Cattach , founder of Finance for Business, discuss the stranglehold the big four banks on small business lending, and explore alternative options for financing. Martin outlines alternative #financing options, especially the diverse and fast growing range of #fintechlenders for #smallbusinessesWe cover;The role of #workingcapital in business growthThe entanglement trap that owners often find themselves inThe importance of understanding your financial positionHow to get more value from your accounting software package and bank account dataPlanning ahead to avoid cash flow problemsThe role of fintech lenders in providing quick and flexible funding solutionsMartin shares examples of clients he has worked with and the positive impact alternative financing has had on their businesses.@kerrcapital@finforbiz Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@MarkRubbo from @readingsbooks shares his personal take on buying and building this iconic business. We cover a lot of ground including;How the opportunity to buy Readings came aboutLaving the music industry (Professor Longhair) for book retailingThe linkage of Marks business ambitions with the impact on;the Australian book industrythe broader literary community (writers, publishers)the local communityMark's ambition and opportunistic mindset to expanding Readings into multiple other locations, and the establishment of an online presenceThe importance of community engagement, author events and creating a vibrant bookstoreThe physical bookshops as a unique experience, with the opportunity for discoveryWhy Government support for bookshops is crucial in preserving the cultural value they bring to communitiesTransitioning out of the CEO role and ensuring a smooth succession to maintain the unique flavor of ReadingsThe challenges and rewards of running an independent bookstoreThe impact of Borders Books when it opened directly opposite in Lygon St in the early 2000'sThe impact of online retailers like AmazonHis experiences of succession planning, and advice for other small bookshop owners - to ensure the continuity of their business and to pass on their legacy.He also talks about his current projects;The Book Sellers podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-booksellers-podcast/id1683259417#Indigenousarts#literaryprizes@beyondblueAnd finally what it's really like to 'move on', and hand over day to day managementQUOTES:"Sometimes founders rightfully wrongly put everything they've got into it and other people get to benefit from it.""I hope Readings has been a sort of community focused business." Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Earl Eddings  has started, sold and acquired multiple businesses. Along the way he's had high profile roles including as Chair of Cricket Australia, and served as Non Executive Director, Advisory Board member, Adviser and Mentor to other business owners and businesses. He's had wins. He's also learned a lot from experiences where things didn't go to plan. These experiences were however formative and continue to shape how he continues to approach his work,  the support he provides to other business leaders and business owners.   In our discussion we cover;Earl's background and his journey as a business owner, including his first owned business and its saleTurning around businesses and the importance of planning for an exitThe key factors to consider when selling a business, such as having a clean balance sheet and strong systemsThe significance of trust, open communication and integrity in mergers and acquisitions, as well as the importance of proper due diligenceThe importance of expert advice and representationManaging expectations to avoid unrealistic valuationsPlanning for an exit and the starting point, and the future visionWays to increase the value of the businessThe importance of identifying potential buyers and scanning the market is highlightedMitigating risks and ensuring sustainability Working with the buyer and transitioningThe use of non-binding indicative offers and deal negotiationsWhy to avoid lengthy exclusivity periods is emphasizedThe vital importance of personal aspirations and family considerationsThe role of  non-executive directors and advisory boardsWhy seeking guidance and building networks is encouraged as a way to navigate the complexities of selling a businessSome of the key takeaways;When starting a business, it's important to have an exit plan in mind and be prepared for a potential sale.#Culturalfit and alignment of strategic intent are crucial considerations in mergers and acquisitions.Plan for an exit by starting with a clear vision of the future.Identify potential buyers and scan the market to find the right fit.Consider personal aspirations and family dynamics when planning for an exit.Engage non-executive directors and #advisoryboards for guidance and support.Build networks and seek guidance from experienced professionals.@kerrcapital @michaelkerr Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Pete Seligman talks about and #eta (Entrepreneur through Acquisition) and #searchfunds and their impact on small business owners. He's an investor and co-owner of multiple businesses. Pete explains the concept of search funds and how they provide a vehicle for investors to back #acquisitionentrepreneurs. We talk about;the importance of finding the right fit between the entrepreneur and the businesscurrent market challenges and opportunitieshow business owners should handle an approach from  a search fund or investorsthe role of #earnouts in business sales and how they can bridge the gap between buyer and sellerthe common misunderstandings in relation to earnouts, and the potential benefits they can offercreative deal making and risk sharing to improve the prospects for getting a successful transactionwhy business owners need to augment their existing advisors with subject matter experts for a sale processthe importance for owners to reflect on their mission and have honest conversations with co-owners to align their goalsTakeawaysSearch funds provide a pathway for entrepreneurs to buy existing businesses instead of starting one.The fit between the entrepreneur and the business is crucial for success.Business owners should be open to conversations with search funds and investors, as it can lead to new opportunities.Co-investing and joint ventures can be options for owners who want to grow their business with additional capital and expertise.Owners should be prepared for potential exit opportunities and have a clear understanding of their role in the business. Earn outs can be a valuable tool in bridging the gap between buyer and seller in a business sale.Creative deal making and risk sharing are essential for a successful transaction.Owners should consider the potential benefits of earnouts and not reject the concept of deferred payment outright.Business owners may need to augment their advisors with additional expertise for a sale process.Reflecting on the owner's mission and having honest conversations with co-owners are crucial for aligning goals.@kerrcapital Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Sandy Chong brings 39 years experience as a salon owner to her current role as CEO at @The Australian Hairdressing Council. She's the current @cosboa #smallbusinesschampion and has multiple other board and advisory roles that involve advocacy and improving effectiveness for industry bodies.Sandy sold her own salon during 2023 to focus on her CEO role. In that role she is actively involved in advocating for small businesses and shaping the future of the industry. Her extensive background as a business owner gives her valuable insights to guide those aspiring to venture into entrepreneurship and business ownership after completing their trade apprenticeships.In our discussion we talk about;the crucial role industry bodies play in supporting and advocating for small businessesthe importance of education and training in helping #apprentices become skilled professionals, and then business ownershow vital apprenticeships are for the growth and sustainability of industrieswhy small businesses, like hairdressing salons, have such a significant impact on the community and contribute to people's self-esteem and mental wellnessnurturing and developing homegrown talentnavigating the impact of Government Regulations on hairdressersaddressing #skillshortages and Workforce Sustainability in tradeswhat she learnt running a salon with up to 45 staff (all but 1 apprenticed by Sandy!) over 39 yearsshedding light on the unique challenges and opportunities within the hairdressing industryinspiring entrepreneurs in the trades industryI think hairdressers often give back and I think that's one thing that really stands out for me, is they have really incredible business structures. They're incredibly generous to their staff, but it's the community generosity. - Sandy ChongVisit the Australian Hairdressing Council website at www.ahc.org.au to learn more about the organization and its initiatives.Timestamped summary of this episode:00:00:12 - Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast Michael Ker introduces the Small Business Banter podcast and its relevance to business owners, especially those looking to sell or buy a new business. He emphasizes the stress, emotions, and challenges involved in these processes.00:01:21 - Sandy Chong's Background and Role Sandy Chong shares her extensive background as the CEO of the Australian Hairdressers Council and her experience as a past salon owner for 39 years. She highlights the importance of developing relationships with clients and the unique challenges of the hairdressing industry.00:07:20 - Career Opportunities in Hairdressing Discussion on the potential career opportunities in the hairdressing industry, including the potential for financial success, international work, and diverse roles beyond salon ownership. Emphasis on the importance of education and training for career growth.00:09:50 - Apprenticeship and Business Ownership Sandy Chong reflects on her commitment to apprenticing her staff and the importance of finding the right buyer for her salon. She discusses the need for a pathway to guide talented practitioners toward business ownership and the challenges of running a business.00:14:59 - Industry Support and Sustainability Sandy Chong emphasizes the role of industry associations in educating and supporting business owners, particularly in navigating complex issues such as industrial relations and HR. The importance of belonging to an association for access to industry-specific information and support is highlighted.00:16:25 - Migration Review and Industry Concerns Sandy discusses the release of the migration review and expresses concern for the hairdressing industry's exclusion due to high sponsorship costs. She highlights the industry's need for sustainability and lower tismet.00:17:37 - Challenges and Solutions for the Industry Sandy addresses the skill shortage in the predominantly female hairdressing industry and emphasizes the importance of investing in apprenticeships and adapting to the changing preferences of younger workers. She also mentions the potential benefits of new jobs and skills councils.00:19:38 - Encouraging School-Based Apprenticeships Sandy discusses the potential of school-based apprenticeship programs and the benefits of group training organizations for higher completion rates. She also highlights the challenges faced by single operator salons and the financial barriers for young people entering the industry.00:21:41 - Financial Management and Small Business Challenges The conversation shifts to the financial challenges faced by small business owners, particularly in managing cash flow, profit and loss, and the complexities of industrial relations. Sandy emphasizes the need for education and support in understanding basic finances and business value.00:32:01 - The Value of Small Businesses in Communities Sandy and the host highlight the vital role of small businesses, including hairdressing, in supporting community well-being and mental health. They emphasize the personal and social aspects of the hairdressing experience, going beyond just a haircut.00:33:05 - Passion for Small Business and Cosboa Small Business Champion Award Sandy Chong discusses her deep passion for small business and receiving the Cosboa Small Business Champion Award in April. She highlights her role as an ambassador and her commitment to lobbying and advocacy work for small businesses.00:35:36 - Driving Force behind Small Business Ownership Sandy Chong shares her motivation for becoming a small business owner, emphasizing the inclusivity and culture of the hairdressing industry. She also discusses her desire to be a successful business person and contribute to the industry through education and training.00:37:01 - The Mindset of Small Business Owners The conversation delves into the mindset of small business owners, highlighting their humble beginnings, lack of strategic planning, and the drive to seize opportunities. The discussion also touches on the purpose, financial benefits, and challenges of small business ownership.00:40:38 - Small Business Heroes and Inspirational Figures Sandy Chong mentions several inspirational figures in the hairdressing industry, recognizing their ethical standards, charitable work, and community generosity. She emphasizes the impact of these individuals on the industry and their ability to inspire the next generation of small business owners.00:43:22 - Reaching Out to Sandy Chong Sandy Chong provides information on how to reach out to her as the CEO of the Australian Hairdressing Council and the current small business champion. She encourages individuals to visit the council's website and emphasizes her accessibility for inquiries and support. Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@JonathanRoberts  co-founded @OneRabbit with 2 partners 10 years ago.  He'd worked with those same partners for 17 years prior in a marketing and design business, which ultimately morphed into One Rabbit.  Along the way he's founded, owned and exited multiple other businesses. In this episode and based on that deep experience as an entrepreneur Jonathan shares high value insights on the challenges and rewards of making a strategic exit.  Specifically he talks about;how 3 partners exited their marketing firm with friendship Intactthe importance of recognizing when passion and energy wanehow assessing one's satisfaction and enthusiasm regularly can be pivotal in determining the right time for a changethe significance of exit planning, building systems into the business, diversifying income streams, and maximizing profitshis unconventional approach to exit planninghis success in transitioning to new ventures@ZeroWasteProject@fridgefriendthe value of finding new passion and purpose beyond the businessA must-listen for potential business sellers and entrepreneurs seeking to exit on their terms and with confidence."Enjoy it, stay there while you enjoy it, make it as profitable as you can. And then when you stop enjoying it, pull the trigger, move on." - Jonathan RobertsRESOURCES:Visit www.zerowasteproject.com.au to explore the Zero Waste Project and learn more about their products and initiativesSearch for www.fridgefriend.com.au to find the domestic product offered by Zero Waste Project and discover how it can help reduce food waste at homeConnect with Jonathan Roberts on LinkedIn for further insights and updates on his entrepreneurial journey and business ventures.Timestamped summary of this episode:00:00:06 - Introduction and Purpose of the Podcast Michael Kerr introduces the Small Business Banter podcast and discusses its focus on business owners at different stages of ownership, such as selling, being approached by potential buyers, or aspiring to buy a new business.00:01:13 - Guest Introduction and Business Background Jonathan Roberts shares his extensive background in sales and marketing, including founding and growing One Rabbit, a professional services marketing firm. The discussion touches on the unique approach taken by One Rabbit and its transition into a consulting firm.00:05:42 - The Transition to One Rabbit and Business Philosophy Jonathan explains the transformation of One Rabbit, emphasizing the decision to focus solely on professional service firms. The discussion also delves into the philosophy behind the name "One Rabbit" and the shift towards a no BS approach in marketing.00:09:27 - Knowing When to Wind Up a Business Jonathan discusses the natural progression towards winding up One Rabbit after 27 years, citing a loss of enthusiasm and a desire to pursue other business interests. The impact of COVID-19 and the exploration of potential alternatives, including selling the business, are also mentioned.00:16:55 - Navigating Business Partnerships and Personal Reflection The conversation touches on the dynamics of business partnerships, personal attachment to a business, and the gratitude for accomplishments over 27 years. Jonathan shares insights on communication within partnerships and the departure of co-founders.00:17:23 - The Importance of Conscious Business Decision-making Jonathan discusses the importance of conscious decision-making when it comes to exiting, not exiting, or selling a business. He emphasizes the need to have a plan and be aware of the options available.00:19:27 - The Trade-off in Exiting a Business Jonathan shares his experience of stepping away from his business after 27 years. He discusses the factors that led to the decision, including being passionate about other business opportunities and feeling less motivated in the current one.00:25:32 - Renewed Purpose in New Ventures Jonathan talks about his new business ventures related to reducing food waste and the positive impact it has. He highlights the renewed vigor and purpose he feels in his current endeavors, compared to his previous consulting business.00:28:51 - The Entrepreneurial Spirit and Continuous Growth Jonathan discusses his entrepreneurial spirit and the excitement of building new businesses. He emphasizes the importance of continuously investing time and energy into new ventures and the satisfaction it brings.00:31:23 - Maximizing Earnings and Exit Planning Jonathan advises business owners to maximize their earnings while in the business and invest in exit planning. He acknowledges the challenges of selling a business and the need for conscious decision-making throughout the process.00:34:27 - Building Business Systems Jonathan reflects on the need for more business systems in their knowledge-based business to diversify income streams and maximize profits. He emphasizes the importance of smart marketing and working with enjoyable clients.00:37:18 - Becoming an Expert Jonathan discusses the bravery required to say no to clients and the importance of becoming an expert in a specific niche to command higher fees and provide better service.00:38:05 - Exit and Succession Planning Jonathan shares his perspective on exit planning, emphasizing the importance of enjoying the business, making it profitable, and recognizing the right timing to move on.00:39:40 - Finding Jonathan Jonathan provides information about his website and encourages listeners to connect with him for further discussions or inquiries about his business.00:40:46 - Wrapping Up The host, Michael Kerr, concludes the episode, encourages listeners to subscribe, and offers personal assistance through the website. He also announces the release of new episodes every couple of weeks.  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@ShaneCheek is the CEO of @ContinuaSoftware which is a private company that specialises in acquiring, operating and growing B2B software companies.Shane is an experienced founder, builder, business seller and investor. His  expertise and practical insights make this episode a must-listen for #businessowners who are potential sellers looking to understand the best strategies to sell their business, especially when they are selling to an industry buyer. In this episode we cover;how to best manage the process of selling your business to an industry buyerthe fast growing trend of #searchfund buyers making direct approaches to business ownershow to best prepare for a direct approach preparing for sale negotiationsunderstanding the value of your companythe importance of building relationships with potential acquirershow to effectively qualify incoming inquiries from a search fund or industry buyer navigating negotiations with #privateequity buyers like a propreparing for a fulfilling life after sellingthe crucial role of trusted advisors in the selling process"People are messy, businesses are messy, people are imperfect, and businesses are imperfect as well. Acknowledging that and then approaching any potential transaction or sale with that as a realization makes things smoother and hopefully more enjoyable and fun along the way as well" - Shane CheekVisit @continuasoftware.com to learn more about Continua Software and their focus on acquiring businesses in the software and technology space.Contact Shane at Shane@continuasoftware.com to connect with him regarding business opportunities or discussions related to small businesses in the software and technology sector.Timestamped summary of this episode:00:00:06 - Introduction to Small Business Banter podcast Michael Kerr introduces the Small Business Banter podcast, highlighting its focus on business owners and their advisors at various stages of business ownership.00:02:34 - Continua Software and Outreach Model Shane Cheek discusses Continua Software's focus on acquiring B2B software companies and their outreach model to directly connect with business owners. He emphasizes the importance of building relationships and understanding the people behind the businesses.00:10:14 - Reasons for Considering an Exit Shane highlights the reasons why business owners consider selling their businesses, including reaching a plateau, feeling tired, and personal factors such as upcoming travel or personal fulfillment.00:14:30 - Importance of People in Acquisition Shane emphasizes the significance of prioritizing people in business acquisitions, focusing on aligning values and building rapport with business owners. He discusses the importance of understanding owner's goals beyond financial aspects.00:17:22 - Flexible Operating Model and Partnership Shane explains Continua Software's flexible approach to business acquisition, accommodating varying levels of owner involvement post-acquisition. He emphasizes the importance of aligning owner's strengths with the business's needs for mutual success.00:20:46 - Challenges in Business Transition Shane discusses the tensions and challenges in making new business decisions, especially for sellers who have built successful businesses.00:23:39 - Key Elements of a Good Business Opportunity Shane highlights the importance of consistency, predictability, and clarity of roles and responsibilities in evaluating a business opportunity.00:27:28 - Importance of Building Relationships Shane emphasizes the importance of building a relationship with the owner of the business, comparing it to dating and marriage, and the role of a good advisor in the process.00:31:48 - The Role of an Advisor in Selling a Business Shane discusses the significance of having an advisor to guide the seller in the sale process, and the impact of having an advisor on the certainty of closing the deal.00:39:32 - Managing Inquiries and Interest Shane addresses the increasing inquiries to owners from various sources, emphasizing the need for credibility and genuine interest in potential buyers, and the importance of managing the pipeline effectively.00:41:47 - Qualifying Inbound Inquiries The owner needs to quickly validate the quality and intentions of inbound inquiries. Key questions to ask: Why do you want to buy my business? What is your capital source? What are your values and alignment?00:44:28 - Evaluating Potential Buyers It's important to assess the track record and intentions of potential buyers. Owners should approach incoming inquiries as they would a long-term sales prospect or a potential business partner.00:47:48 - Initial Steps in the Sale Process After an initial conversation, gathering historical financials, customer lists, and staff lists is crucial. Advisors can help prepare the business for sale by cleaning up and organizing key information.00:55:53 - Reflecting on Business Performance Owners should reflect annually on their business performance, similar to the process of preparing for an exit. Making 1% improvements in the business can have a significant impact over time.01:01:34 - Understanding the Buyer Understanding the motivations and playbook of potential buyers, such as private equity firms, is crucial in the sale process. Each buyer may have a different approach and set of expectations.01:02:14 - Private Equity Playbook Shane explains the private equity playbook, including initial approach, attractive evaluation, period of exclusivity, and strict due diligence process.01:03:24 - Understanding the Buyer Shane emphasizes the importance of understanding the type of buyer and being prepared for potential retrading, annoyance, and invasive due diligence process.01:04:50 - Post-Sale Considerations The discussion focuses on the emotional impact of selling a business, filling the void after the sale, and the importance of planning for life after the sale.01:07:18 - Setting a Walk-Away Number Shane advises on setting a walk-away number and emphasizes the significance of understanding the cash flow implications of the headline offer.01:13:03 - Embracing Imperfections Shane discusses the importance of acknowledging the imperfections in businesses and how being upfront about them can lead to smoother transactions and problem-solving approaches.  Thanks for listening. Visit the Small Business Banter website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show. Search @SmallBusinessBanter on your favorite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes. Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business. michael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.au www.smallbusinessbanter.com.au

@Ben Tuszynski from @Judo Bank, shares his insights on the importance of banking relationships for small business owners. Ben is currently the Managing Director of Judo Bank in Victoria and Tasmania. He has over a decade of experience in the banking and finance sector. Joining Judo in 2017 as one of the pioneering employees, Ben has played a pivotal role in the bank's substantial growth over the years. His primary focus lies in supporting small and medium-sized enterprises, aligning with Judo's commitment to providing tailored financial solutions to businesses, in an age of #industrialisedbanking. Our conversation covers;Judo's  nimble and responsive approach to #smebankingThe four C's of creditBen's tips for business owners, such as the value of having open discussions with banking professionalsWhat to do if you're feeling frustrated by the lack of support and opportunities from your current bankTrusted advisors for small businessesVendor finance in #businesstransitionsExplore better banking relationships through skilled finance brokers"No one business is the same from the other, so how do you industrialize that whole process? We really want to have a look at what's their management experience, what's their skill set, how have they gone through the ups and downs of the economy and weathered those storms?" Ben TuszynskiTimestamped summary of this episode:00:00:14 - Introduction and Technical Difficulties Michael and Julie from Judo talk about technical issues regarding Ben's recording for the podcast.00:03:13 - Catching Up and Personal Background Ben and Michael catch up on their personal backgrounds, discussing Ben's move back from Perth and his role at Judo.00:07:02 - Judo's Mission and Target Audience Ben explains Judo's mission and target audience, focusing on small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) with turnover up to $100 million.00:13:07 - Judo's Approach and Importance of Personalized Banking Ben elaborates on Judo's approach, highlighting the importance of personalized banking relationships for SMEs and the industrialization of the banking market.00:17:21 - The Importance of Reviewing Banking Relationships Michael and Ben emphasize the importance of reviewing banking relationships and the role of a trusted banker in supporting the growth and success of SMEs.00:20:02 - Importance of Collaborating with Accountants and Business Coaches Ben emphasizes the importance of engaging with accountants and business coaches to navigate complex business situations and provide added value to customers.00:21:48 - Judo's Customer Base and Industry Focus Ben discusses Judo's industry-agnostic approach, catering to SMEs across various sectors such as accommodation, manufacturing, financial services, and property investment.00:25:17 - The Four C's of Credit Ben explains Judo's credit assessment framework based on character, capacity, capital, and collateral, with a focus on character and the ability to walk the factory floor for a deeper understanding of the business.00:29:39 - Importance of Credible Cash Flow Forecasts Ben emphasizes the significance of credible cash flow forecasts and the business owner's ability to endorse and explain the assumptions, fostering trust and communication in the lending relationship.00:33:29 - Funding Opportunities for Growing Businesses Ben highlights Judo's approach to lending against trading businesses, supporting growth plans beyond traditional equity in property and enabling businesses to access funding based on their strong balance sheet and income generation.00:35:25 - Understanding Debt Servicing Capability Ben explains the importance of understanding a client's capability to service debt on a case-by-case basis. He emphasizes the need for deeper conversations and not missing out on growth opportunities.00:36:43 - Business Growth and Financing Ben discusses the dynamics between business owners and potential buyers when it comes to taking on debt for growth. He highlights the role of trusted relationships and the importance of considering alternative financing options.00:40:54 - Vendor Finance and Business Sales Ben and Michael explore the concept of vendor finance and its potential in facilitating business sales. They emphasize the need for effective structuring and collaboration between the buyer, seller, and banker.00:43:32 - Loyalty Tax and Customer Relationships Ben delves into the concept of "loyalty tax" and emphasizes the importance of delivering strong relationships and support to existing customers. He also discusses the role of finance brokers as an effective channel for improving banking relationships.00:47:34 - Economic Outlook and SME Support Ben shares his views on the economic outlook for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), highlighting factors such as labor market conditions, property market trends, and sector-specific considerations. He reaffirms Judo's dedication to supporting SMEs.00:53:09 - Building Trust and Long-Term Relationships Ben discusses the importance of building long-term relationships with customers and becoming Australia's most trusted SME bank. The focus is on delivering quick and confident solutions to customers for their business needs.00:53:46 - The Value of Banking Relationships Ben emphasizes the importance of evaluating the effectiveness of banking relationships and suggests reaching out to judo or a finance broker for a better understanding. The conversation highlights the mission of fintechs like judo in providing special opportunities to clients.00:54:19 - Experienced Business Bankers at Judo Ben reinforces the fact that judo, as a new bank, is staffed with experienced business bankers. He encourages businesses to start chipping away at any loyalty tax they may be paying and acknowledges the efforts of other fintechs in the industry.00:55:11 - Access to Opportunities and Different Ways of Financing The conversation touches on how judo and other fintechs have enabled clients to tap into opportunities that may not have been accessible before. The focus is on freeing up capital and exploring different ways of financing for businesses.00:55:33 - Ways to Reach Out to Judo Ben shares the various ways to reach out to judo, either through their website, phone, or LinkedIn. He emphasizes their willingness to help and collaborate with businesses, concluding the conversation with a message of appreciation for the opportunity to share insights about judo.  Thanks for listening. For any questions contact Michael Kerrmichael.kerr@kerrcapital.com.auwww.smallbusinessbnater.com.au

@Stu GregorStu and his @fourpillarsgin co-founders recently sold the last 50% of their business to Vanguard Luxury Brands, the Lion-owned distribution business. Four Pillars is an Australian success story. Stu's has a lengthy background in food, wine, hospitality and travel. His other business and personal experiences include;Founding  @LiquidIdeas in 2013 - Australia's leading communications agency for food, drink, travel and lifestyle brandsCo-owning of luxury travel business Gregor & Lewis Bespoke TravelPresident of the Australian Distillers Association (2014-current)Director RUOK Day and OzHarvest for nine yearsFormer panellist on ABC's Gruen and regular media commentatorMasters in Marketing from the Melbourne Business SchoolDiploma in Wine Marketing from Adelaide UniversityGraduate of the AICD.Has a daughter, a son, a wife and a passion for every sport imaginable.We discuss;starting a business,going through an exitcontemplating life after that businessthe power and importance of marketingthe value of external counsel in important business decisionshow to prepare for a business exit and ensure a smooth transition when the time comes to move onthe importance of passion in small business - learn how to harness your enthusiasm and drive to create a thriving and fulfilling venture.Stu opens up about the emotional aspect of selling a business, the need for a strong plan for what comes next and debunks a some myths. Myth #1: Exiting a business means you've made it and can retire happily. Myth #2: Life after a business exit is all relaxation and no challenges. Myth #3: The traditional concept of work-life balance  Timestamped summary of this episode:00:00:01 - Introduction Stu Gregor is the guest on the Small Business Banter Podcast. He discusses his recent sale of Four Pillars gin and his role as co-founder of Liquid Ideas.00:02:16 - Background and Experience Stu shares his journey from journalism to the wine industry and eventually founding Liquid Ideas, a communications agency. He highlights the value of being both an advisor and a doer in business.00:07:08 - Lessons Learned from Four Pillars Stu reflects on his experience with Four Pillars gin and the lessons he learned as he built the brand. He acknowledges the value of lived experience and how it enhances his advisory role.00:09:09 - Transition and Future Plans Stu discusses the challenges of transitioning out of Four Pillars and the conflicting advice he receives about what to do next. He expresses his energy and excitement for new ventures and ideas.00:10:45 - Uncertainty and Possibilities Stu shares his current state of uncertainty and the various ideas he has for his future endeavors. He highlights his desire for change and the constant generation of new possibilities.00:15:13 - The Role of the Ex Co-founder Stu Gregor discusses his role as the ex co-founder of Four Pillars and compares it to being a loose player in the back line in the AFL. He highlights the freedom he had to roam and go where he pleased, without an official role.00:18:29 - The Genesis of Four Pillars Stu shares the story of how Four Pillars started in the back of a friend's shed in the Yarra Valley. He explains how they raised money from 20 investors and focused on building the best gin distillery business, without initially considering an exit plan.00:21:18 - Building Something Worthy of Attention Stu emphasizes the importance of building something successful before considering an exit plan. He cautions against starting a business with the sole intention of getting out, and highlights the need to be all in and passionate about what you're building.00:23:35 - Timing and Luck Stu acknowledges the role of timing and luck in the success of Four Pillars. He mentions that they entered the gin industry at a time when there were fewer competitors, giving them an early mover advantage. He also highlights the need for a world-class product to stand out in a crowded market.00:26:04 - Expertise and Industry Knowledge Stu emphasizes the importance of expertise and industry knowledge, citing their combined 50 years of experience in the drinks industry as a major advantage. He advises aspiring entrepreneurs to assess00:31:37 - The Beginning of Four Pillars Gin The guest talks about how Four Pillars Gin started gaining recognition, winning awards, and expanding its distribution. They emphasize the importance of not just having a great product, but also marketing and selling it effectively.00:32:57 - Building a Business The guest explains that their goal was to create a viable business that would employ many people and contribute to the development of the gin category. They reflect on their success in creating unique gin flavors and establishing themselves as a leading brand in Australia.00:34:21 - Attracting Attention The guest shares that larger spirits companies, like Diageo, started taking notice of Four Pillars Gin's success. They had meetings with representatives of these companies, who expressed interest and admiration for their brand. This sparked the guest's curiosity about potential opportunities for the business.00:37:02 - Seeking Advice The guest realizes the need for external advice and engages the services of Canterbury Partners, an advisory firm specializing in mergers and acquisitions. They stress the importance of getting expert guidance in navigating the complex process of potential acquisition or investment.00:40:58 - Getting Expert Counsel The guest emphasizes the value of having external counsel during negotiations with potential buyers. They believe that having a third party advocate for your interests can help maintain a positive relationship with the buyer and prevent conflicts that may arise during the negotiation process.00:46:55 - Building a Strong Relationship with the Buyer The guest discusses the ups and downs of the deal but emphasizes the importance of having a strong relationship with the buyer, which provides comfort and allows for continued investment in the business processes.00:47:30 - Challenges and Distractions in 2019 The guest shares that finalizing the deal in 2019 was a stressful process as it required a lot of time and expertise. They also mention their decision to sell only 50% of the business and work on unfinished projects.00:49:13 - Navigating the Challenges of 2020 The guest discusses the impact of the pandemic on their business, with international markets and on-premise markets closing down. They had to adapt by selling gin online, delivering cocktails, and even making hand sanitizer.00:51:23 - Negotiating the Second Tranche of the Sale The guest talks about how the pandemic affected the mechanics of the second tranche of the sale and the need to renegotiate the terms. It took several months to reach an agreed price that would benefit both parties.00:54:57 - The Importance of Building a Brand The guest emphasizes that a brand is the most valuable asset in the industry. Buyers are not just interested in physical assets but also in the brand's customer loyalty, awareness, and love. Building a brand can differentiate a business and make it more attractive for sale.01:04:02 - The Challenges of Small Business Stu emphasizes that starting and running a small business is challenging but incredibly satisfying. He encourages people to pursue their passions and find work that stimulates and fulfills them.01:05:21 - Work-Life Balance and Personal Growth Stu discusses the concept of work-life balance and suggests that if work is enjoyable and fulfilling, the need for balance diminishes. He shares how his experiences in small business have helped him grow as a person and become a better human.01:06:30 - The Relentless Slog of Small Business Stu acknowledges that running a small business is a relentless and challenging journey. However, he highlights that the hard work can be highly gratifying and invigorating, especially if you are passionate about what you do.01:07:17 - Leaving with Grace and Planning for the Future Stu advises that when the time comes to exit a small business, it's important to do so gracefully and not criticize or undermine those who take over. He also emphasizes the need to have a plan for what comes next to maintain a sense of purpose and fulfillment.01:08:21 - Reaching Out to Stu Stu shares that anyone interested in connecting with him can reach out to him on LinkedIn. He thanks Michael for the conversation and expresses his enjoyment.