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Resolute Mindset and Laughter Have An Inherently Positive Correlation Featuring Cathy Nesbitt Laughter might be a miracle cure for a lot of things that ail us. The best parts are that it's free and contagious. When we laugh a deep belly laugh it makes us breathe in very deep bringing more much-needed oxygen. A lot of breath to shallow anyway. You actually burn calories as well kicking your brain into high gear. Also leads to an endorphin boost. About Cathy Cathy Nesbitt is a Worm Advocate & Founder of Cathy's Crawly Composters (est 2002). This environmental business specializes in vermicomposting. Laughter wellness is her latest offering. Simple solutions for today's challenges. Worm composting, sprout growing, and laughter yoga. Cathy Nesbitt is a certified Laughter Yoga Leader, Teacher. Appointed Laughter Ambassador in 2017 by Dr. Madan Kataria (founder of Laughter Yoga est 1995) Since 2015 Cathy has been leading Laughter sessions at assisted living facilities, summer camps and other venues. She shares her energy, passion, generosity and vast professional experience to help you take advantage of the natural health benefits of laughter yoga. Cathy chose Laughter Yoga because of the profound benefits she has experienced when she first discovered this unique, fun and easy exercise modality. This is a simple exercise system that anyone can participate in that will increase one's overall feeling of wellbeing while decreasing feelings of stress. Wonder of Worms and Simplicity of Sprouts We offer simple solutions for today's challenges. Worm composting for amending the soil, sprouts for eating, laughter for overall health and wellness, and now Organo Gold, reishi mushroom-infused coffee and tea. Vermicomposting is a great way to make the world's best soil. Discover how worms convert organic matter into nature's finest soil amendment known as castings. Worms are going to play an ever-increasing role in waste management, soil production and therefore food security. Sprouts are considered nature's superfood. Grow sprouts at home, school, work. Laughter wellness is our latest offering. Discover the magic of laughing for no reason. Cathy's Club Website www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below   Resolute Mindset and Laughter Have An Inherently Positive Correlation Featuring Cathy Nesbitt Sun, 7/11 11:36AM • 59:19 SUMMARY KEYWORDS laughter, laughter yoga, people, laugh, worms, sprouts, cathy, stress, thinking, cuckoo, important, called, life, terry, mung beans, enzymes, roy, tapping, composting, assisted living SPEAKERS Cathy, Terry, Roy Barker   Roy Barker  00:00  Hello and welcome to another episode of Feeding Fatty This is Roy necessary so we are talking about this podcast consist of chronicling our journey through wellness and you know in the beginning we started out with more of what we ate our diet not a diet but our diet and we've kind of moved you know into exercise and now we've really focused a lot on mindset because making any sustainable changes you know it just has to begin in our mind before we can really achieve it over long periods of time and that's one thing you know we talked about we struggle with we can do most anything for a month two months, three months but you know, we need to do things and put it together for many many years to come. So anyway, from what we do is we have guests on periodically experts in the field and then we also do you know some of our updates as well when those are needed but today is no different. We have an awesome guests, Kathy and I will let Terry introduce her.   Terry  01:10 Hi Cathy Cathy Nesbitt is a health and wellness advocate. She's the founder of Cathy's Crawley composters, Cathy sprouts and Cathy's laughter club. She is a certified laughter yoga teacher appointed laughter ambassador. And since 19 or since, excuse me since 2015. Cathy has been leading laughter sessions at assisted living facilities, summer camps and other venues. She shares her energy passion, generosity and vast professional experience to help you take advantage of the natural health benefits of yeah laughter yoga. She's she is a worm advocate and founder of the Cathy Crawley composters, which I mentioned recently or earlier. This environmental business specializes in Vermont composting, I've been practicing that word left. Laughter wellness is the latest offering. Cathy, welcome to the show. I just butchered all of it. I was trying to read from everywhere because you have so many things going on. But I want to get the verb vermicomposting. How are you doing today?   Cathy  02:22 Thank you. Thank you. I'm so excited to be on your podcast.   Terry  02:25 Thank you. Oh, my gosh. I also wanted to mention you're a multi award winning environmental innovator.   Cathy  02:31 I love that bio that I wrote.   Terry  02:37 Well, you did and then I kind of picked it out here. So how did you get started with? Well, start wherever you want to you want to start with the words.   Cathy  02:48 Let's just start Let me tell you what my working title is. Okay. Please. My working title is Cathy Crawley laughing being queen. So waiting for all of that you just offered right worms for amending the soil sprouts for eating and laughter for overall health and wellness. So I started my worm enterprise back in 2002. And just quickly to get into how that happened. I'm located in Canada, just north of Toronto, largest city in the country. Our landfill closed in 2002. you sitting down? I see you are starting. We started shipping garbage to Michigan from Canada. Oh, sorry. I know not my fault. Not me, the government. My government and your government by the way. Yeah, yeah. No, no, they didn't do right. They made in a business arrangement. So we So shame on us as Canadians for shipping our garbage out of the country, almost 200 garbage trucks every day from the Toronto to Michigan. like Wow, thank you. Well, it's shopping 1000 trucks a week like holy. What are we thinking as people? So shame on us for shipping our garbage out of the country but double shame on the Americans for accepting our garbage for cash? Like what? Who would who would? Oh, let's take the Canadian garbage because they got to get rid of it. There's this right. We're only the second largest country in the world.   Terry  04:17 Running anywhere. Apparently,   Roy Barker  04:19 I was just gonna say it's not like we don't have enough of our own garbage that we can't deal with.   Cathy  04:24 Anyway, I'm not for that like that. That's the shameful part. That's the part that's the base. That's what gave me my driver that time like that is what is happening. And as of guard, avid gardener and composter, I knew that I had a solution and indoor solution in Canada we have winter people don't want to compost outside in the winter. So this is indoor composting worms in the house. So in hot places like Texas. Right. Outdoor composting can be a challenge because it gets too hot. It dries out right So indoors the perfect solution, if you live in cottage country and you have bears or cougars or some kind of wildlife, you don't want to compost outside sending your Okay kids go put the stuff in the compost, or you might be taking your own life inheritance. So this is a solution for everywhere. So back to Toronto. So 6 million people in the Greater Toronto Area, half living in condos, townhouses without space for outdoor composting. So they don't even have a solution. And yeah, so In came the worms, and I started my worm enterprise, like a whole series of things lined up for me to start my business in 2002. And by the way, that's the same year I started sprouting. So not everybody knew about worm composting, they still don't 19 years in. I'm doing my best. Yeah, so in 2002, my very first exhibit I was exhibiting, you know, at some kind of trade show, there was a gentleman selling this broder that I sent you, and it was flying off the shelf, it looks like a spaceship, right. And so I was like, Huh, why is everyone buying that thing? And they're not buying my worms. Like, you know, I really believe that I had a solution. And everybody needed what I had, but they didn't want what I had. They needed it, but they didn't want it. thing. It just is right. So there I was. I'm like, Oh, I have a solution. I got this. Okay, I've got this garbage crisis solved. Yeah, come on. And then it's like, oh, well, you know, all the naysayers. Like, oh, what if the worms get out? Is there smell that or do worms? And that was like, cool. Anyway, oh, so back to Tony. So back to the sprout growers. So when I saw I said to him, Hey, how come everyone's buying that? What is that thing? I didn't know anything about sprouts are sprouting. And he told me all the magic about sprouts. And I'll get into that in a moment. But so I was like, Oh, 2002 was a huge year in my life. And I hope that people that are listening, realize when you hear something that pings in your heart, you're like, Oh, what's that? That's, there's a message for you. There's something there for you. So I was like, Oh, this guy 72 at the time, he's 92. Now 92 still living on his own still in the business still, like super healthy. Okay, that's enough about him. It's all about me. 72 ballroom dancers. So like, super healthy, like still working 72 still working those shows. It's hard work. When out there being in standing in front of the public, right? Like, people always want to deal and you know, it's it's not easy being an entrepreneur. And I was like, wow, okay, so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do that. So he said, if you're gonna do this, start your day with with two tablespoons of the sprouted mung beans. Here they are. Have a container here. Yummy. Day with two tablespoons every day for the enzymes. I know. We're all over the place. I hope this Okay.   Terry  08:03 Here we go.   Cathy  08:03 Yeah. Yeah, so So I started my own business and started eating sprouts, which is being my health plan. I didn't know but I didn't. I didn't even know that I would have a business. You know, when I worked. I would change jobs every year because I got bored. I didn't know I was an entrepreneur. I didn't have any entrepreneurs in my family. You know, I just was like, I was a secretary. And I was a great secretary, because I was chatty. And I connected everybody. And I thought that was my lot in life. So I was good at it. But I got bored. So I needed to always like, you know, I was always just looking for the next job to to conquer.   Terry  08:48 I can relate to that. Oh my gosh, I've done that too. I have I have had every kind of job you can imagine. And oh, it's crazy. It's experience it is it is experience and nothing's a failure. Everything's a lesson right?   Cathy  09:04 Yeah, whatever jobs that people have where it's like oh, that's it. I don't even want to say a job because all jobs are meaningful and serve a purpose at the time. And it really gives you a good training ground even if you're like oh my boss is so mean good if you're ever a boss, don't be mean.   Terry  09:20 Right? Right. Oh my gosh. Kathy Crawley Laffy been queen. I love that. Okay, let's talk about I know I want to go back to that too. But we're here we are bouncing I want to talk about the laughter the lacquer, how important is laughter in life.   Cathy  09:39 Oh, during this cuckoo time more important than ever really more important than ever and the laughter how I came to the last so I talked about how I got to worms. That's how the laughter came about. So here I am merrily going about wanting to put worms in every living space. I can do it. I got it. You know, it's important. People need what I have. So of course they'll eventually find that out. They'll figure it out. They're still not but okay.   Terry  10:06 We have to help them assess that, you know?   Cathy  10:08 Yeah. So about 10 years in, I think was about 2012. Like one more person said no worms in the house. So I was like, Oh my gosh, how am I ever gonna put worms everywhere? If people are still saying, oh, and I was just thinking, maybe I should just get a job like, it would be easier, right? Like, why am I trying to save the world? Why? Why am I doing this? Why am I caring? Like, I'm the one that put this big mission on my shoulders. I could take it off to like, okay, but worms, nope, no longer. But that, but but I know that that it's really important. So anyway, I was at a business meeting and the speaker, the first speaker introduced laughter yoga, and I don't even do yoga. I don't do yoga, like it's but I was like, laughter yoga. I love laughing, huh. So I was intrigued. And then I was at a business networking event that same week, and there was hundreds of people there. The very first woman I met was a laughter yoga teacher. Oh,   Terry  11:05 wow. Okay, there you go. There's your sign.   Cathy  11:09 There's your sign, right. So I'm very, I listened to those things. You know, I'm 58. Now. So after decades of not listening, you listen.   Terry  11:19 I'm getting there. I'm almost.   Cathy  11:22 So So I was like, wow, I said to her, oh, laughter yoga is mainstream, because I heard about it twice in one week. So you know, somehow these messages come to me sooner than other people or I hear them before other people. I don't know what what it is. But the worms, you know, sprouts, laughter all these things are here. I didn't invent any of them. I'm just marketing them better than anybody else. I'm bringing it. I'm the messenger. Yeah. So I was like, Oh, I love this. And then that woman happened to have. Toronto is a huge city. she happened to have a laughter yoga club laughter club, in the same neighborhood where my mother in law lived. And I love my mother in law. She just she recently just passed. No, it's fine. Because I came to her laughter yoga because of her. So now when I do laughter, yoga, she's there with me. So it's, don't be sad for me. So I was like, Well, hey, Mary, you want to go to this thing? And she trusted me like, even though I do these cuckoo things. She always trusted me. Right? She was like, I don't know where I'm going to go. Whenever Kathy asked me to do something, I go, because it's always going to be different. So I said, Hey, do you want to go to laughter yoga, she's like, what's that? And I said, I don't know. Let's go check it out. So we went for dinner, and she said, we better not have garlic. I said, that's their problem. So we went had dinner went to laughter yoga was weird. Like, it is an awkward. You came to my club Terry, like it's it's kind of an awkward thing, like laughing It's not jokes, or comedy or anything. It's like, Huh, but once you do it, and you actually allow yourself permission, and I will talk about it in a moment. So we went we had fun and then you know, you sleep. Well, you did. So we would go every every month that was once once a month only. Not enough but once a month. And then the club kept getting smaller and smaller. And in Toronto, it was in at one of the busiest corners like condo Ville everywhere. So 10s of 1000s of people at that corner. They just didn't know, they didn't know there was this laughing club they didn't know. So she had to close her club because she rented space and she wasn't making money, right? I mean, she was she was not a charity. So she closed her club I got sad. I was like, Okay, I need to do this. I got trained as a leader. I loved it so much. I got trained as a teacher. And now during again during this cuckoo time. I'm being called to do it so I'm doing laughter yoga, I'm getting paid gigs. My my laughter yoga has almost my income has almost replaced my worm income. Wow. Wow. Because we need it we have this mental health tsunami It was here before it's just being visible now. Now the people that are really struggling are struggling even more now because they're just on their own. They can't go any they can't see anyone or   Roy Barker  14:11 and I think as we come out of this, it's it seems to be more amplified here that there's just a lot more, you know, bad acting of things. And anyway, I think, you know, I think we had some help and support through this. And then as we come out of it, it's just gonna really amplify it even more. So I think it's, it's timely. And the other part I didn't know when you're doing the introduction, I kind of went oh, wow, is delivering that into assisted living. I mean, what a great What a great thing that you know, they need that laughter because, you know, I'll just tell our personal story right quick that Terry signed up for one of your I don't know if you call them sessions or times class, so she signed up for class and, you know, I was over on the other side of the room working but I I heard her start kind of laughing and being a little hysterical. And I saw I kind of, you know, started paying more attention and just hearing the laughter. And it just made me start laughing, even though I wasn't participating. But I think the biggest thing that has come out of this is as we're out in life, and you know, something happens is like, I you know, I'm probably a little more wound tight tighter than Terry. So I'm the first one to be like, true, you know, and he can, she can see my blood pressure. Yeah, exact steam   Terry  15:33 coming out of his, his collar, all that,   Roy Barker  15:35 yeah. So she can recognize it, and then she will just bust out into laughter. And then it makes me start laughing. And then you forget about whatever it was. And so it's actually it's an awesome therapy, to use with other people, you know, around you in your life to kind of break that.   Cathy  15:56 Oh, it's thank you for sharing. It's a magic. It's a magic potion that, you know, laughter actually was squished out of us by the ancient Greeks. Because when people are laughing, and they're connecting, and they're just like, having so much fun, you can control them. Interesting, right? So don't laugh at church. Don't laugh in school. What do you kids laughing out? Like, what are you doing? They're just laughing. They're just like, laughing that's it. Let me join them.   Terry  16:22 And it was something that I mean, I didn't even know that I needed it. Kathy. I really didn't. And just and I was a little apprehensive. I mean, I am not I don't do yoga. I mean, I do a little but not, not that, you know, not like a whole class or anything like that. And I'm like, okay, laughter I love Laughter But the yoga part mom, maybe I should. And then when I when I came on, I would just like, okay, these guys are kind of kooky. Everybody's laughing there's nothing there. They're not laughing for a reason, in particular, except for it's contagious. It's just contagious. And it really did bring me a lot of energy. So every morning after I probably for the whole week, after I just, you know, in the morning, I would just go you know, and Roy, and I would just start going and did not stop for a few minutes, you know, and just periodically throughout the day, and I mean, that laughter just really does bring you a lot of energy. And you have there's an acronym DOS, what does that stand for? If that laughter brings?   Cathy  17:29 Yes, laughter is the best medicine. We've all heard it and I say have you had your daily dose dopamine, oxytocin, serotonin, and endorphins, the left drugs, the left drugs, versus when we're stressed, we're not breathing properly and decreasing cortisol? You know, we need a little bit of cortisol to get us off our butts. But we're in a really stressful time. And North America even is even more tightly wound to use your word ROI than other places like we're, you know, we only get two weeks holiday.   Terry  18:06 Yeah, if even that, I mean, you have to work up to that. Right.   Roy Barker  18:10 Well, there's so many people that just give it back. I mean, we're in I think it's, we're in a position people feel like they can't take off because they're gonna lose traction, or, you know, their boss is gonna say, well, you're not very dedicated you're taking off for and I think you'd be surprised how many people give back their days every year even that they have not because it's like, I don't have anywhere to go or you know, because even staying at home a staycation still fun still. But I think it's that pressure that we feel that we just can't do. A lot of people can't do it   Terry  18:43 that we're replaceable. Everybody,   Cathy  18:46 how what what a way to live our life. That's like that's living from fear from scarcity, right? With abundance. We really do need to rejuvenate, right? Yeah. Like we're important not like put your oxygen mask on first, when you're flying the flight attendant, say it every time.   Terry  19:04 Flight Attendant that was one.   Roy Barker  19:07 Know, even as adults, and being a parent having kids, there's nothing more satisfying and peaceful than sitting out in the backyard and listening to your kids run and play and laugh and, you know, just that are going to a school and hearing the laughter So, you know, why do we somehow we feel like we have to grow out of that as adults? I don't know. I don't think it's that. It's, we think it's not acceptable. But I guess because we are so wrapped up in so many other things. It's just one we forget to do.   Cathy  19:42 It's so serious. We really are a serious society. It's just you know, again, the competition. We got to do better. We got to do more, make more, be more. Yeah, have more, right instead of just like ha, I mean, even during this cuckoo time. How often does Somebody asked me if you've taken your vitamins Did you get outside for a walk? You know, did you connect with somebody today? Like, I'm just concerned that nobody's asking about our health. They're just not asking about our sickness.   Roy Barker  20:14 Yeah, well, more is that sometimes the, the other thing is less is more. You know, and we've, in the last few years, you know, we've made a conscious decision to downsize from the things that we had, you know, especially when we had kids around, it was a different life. But now, it's like, we don't need all that stuff and things and, you know, barns full of things that we've accumulated, never use. And it's very liberating when we can break that cycle and just try to focus more on us instead of things.   Cathy  20:51 Absolutely. You know, when we have a lot of stuff, then we need, like barriers to keep our stuff safe. Right? Somebody might take our stuff, or you know what I mean? Like then. So then we're thinking about all of that stuff that we have. It's, it's so liberating. To to yes to doff your stuff.   Roy Barker  21:13 Yeah, that's the other thing is that whole, the importance part of you know, I never locked my door until Terry came around, and she kind of was a little freaked out about it. Like, there's really nothing in here that, you know, I would rather than take what they want, and I don't have to replace the door. No, because then it's like, you know, they break the door down. And then thanks, Devon, then. But anyway, I just think it frees us up to really concentrate on on us and our relationships. And you know, and that and that, I think that counts our relationship with ourself. We are usually the hardest on ourselves. Now, I'll cut Terry, a lot of slack. You know, don't worry about this, don't worry about that. But for me, I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you know, and it's internalized. But it's like Lana, got a lot done yesterday. But there's like five more things that I should have done. And in not celebrating, taking the time and physically celebrating what we did accomplish.   Cathy  22:14 We're not we're not taught to celebrate our small wins, we're really not where we are taught write the list. And then you've got this list, but then you've got the list that you're always looking at, like you might have done those two things. But now there's two still 12 more things to do. Like, oh, I'm still a failure. You know, just like on social media, you might post something and then, like, 50 people are like, whoo, that hey, right on, that's so great or good. Congratulations. And then one person's like, you suck. And you're like, Oh, I suck. You know, like, somehow we that one person is able to burst our balloon. I don't know why   Terry  22:51 kill the joy.   Roy Barker  22:52 Yeah, well, and the other thing too, is that sometimes even when we achieve success, and we're on top, we can enjoy it. Because it's like, you're looking around, like, Who's gonna knock me off of this? Or how do I stay here? I can't slip back. And so it's just a, it's a perpetuating cycle of stress, to be honest. Yeah.   Cathy  23:13 This is put on by ourselves, though. This is all self imposed. Right? Once we understand that it's self imposed. This this cuckoo time has allowed me Of course, like everybody a lot of time to contemplate. Contemplate tomorrow. You know, but it really is about not comparing to anybody else. It doesn't even matter what everybody has, we don't even know their story. Like it's like, oh, look at how successful they are. Who gives a crap? Are they happy?   Terry  23:45 Yeah. Yeah.   Roy Barker  23:46 Well, but do we really know because that's, you know, the, the joy of social media is we get to share a lot of stuff. But the other part of social medias, we don't know what's behind the scenes, like this new yacht, and I'm standing in front of in my Instagram picture. It's not even mine. I mean, I'm just I'm walking down the harbor and got in front of me, like, hey, look at my new yacht. I just bought her, you know, go to the car dealership and stand by the new car. You know, we don't know. And like you said the other bigger part is even if people have that stuff, they really happy. Yeah, who cares? Right. And we have to stay in our own lane, run our own race. If you know, we can try to get better every day and achieve those things. But it shouldn't be. You know, it's kind of like we focus on us and what are we going to do to be happy? What can we do for ourselves? Not selfishly, but healthily, I guess health wise, you know. But you know, like breathing, water, eating right, sleeping, right. You know, try to do all of those things and really focus on that and it to me, it brings us so much happiness. You know, like yesterday, we had a we had a taping in the afternoon. canceled and so, you know, I was like, go out in the backyard and trim some trees. I got this I got you know, this to my alarm. But I just had a thought that you know what, why don't we just get the dogs and go for a walk and we went and walked over to this really beautiful place and just made an act, you know, a couple hours of it and it was the very best thing taking time for us.   Terry  25:22 It was nice. Yeah, free time. All right. Love it. Yeah, you never get that. Yeah. Ever   Roy Barker  25:29 quote. I'm more a little more curious about the some of your results, not only from, you know, regular, what I'd say middle aged people or not, you know, younger people versus the what have some are your results been taken this into assisted living?   Cathy  25:50 Thank you. Thank you for bringing it back to assisted living. Yes, I it's before my worm business, I was a social worker working with folks in assisted living. And I loved it. I had challenged with management, but you know, everyone's the expert. When you're on the front line, you got to just do stuff. But anyway, okay. But I love that leave when I left, that I was like, felt like a piece of my heart was being left there. So now I'm coming back home. And I am very intuitively guided. I was walking in the forest and got a message that I was because before COVID I was working with assisted living. And let me tell you this fabulous story. And then I'll get back to the forced walk. I hope so. If I remember down here. So there was a few nonverbal folks. And on laughter day, you know, some of the folks were by the window like, like little puppy dogs waiting. You know, they're so excited. Here she comes. Oh, it's so exciting. But they're talking. And then we get into laughing one of the activities is we blow up like a balloon like so you have your hands like this, and you breathe and breathe in breathe. And then you have this big full balloon. And what one of the nonverbal boys young men said when we got here, he was like, bang, bang, he doesn't talk.   Terry  27:17 My gosh,   Cathy  27:18 wow, we were just like, right, his brain was fully oxygenated. He could verbalize it was just like, wow. So anyway, that was very positive experience. Then Then COVID hit and I was like, is this gonna be able to? Can I do laughter online? I don't know. Who knows, right. And it's been so successful. I'm doing work with Alzheimers. I grew up that our early, like early onset 40s 50s 60s. And now we do it online. And we can reach people that couldn't come before they didn't have access or across Canada, people can come or even into the states, if you want to go you know, it's so beautiful. So it does make access for more people. And then so back to the forest. So I'm walking in the forest. And I was given this whole vision. And I still don't know, it's still forming. Like, I don't know how to do it, but it was given to me. Here it is your what's Here's what's coming. Okay. So I was doing laughter yoga was trade doing a training, because I'm a teacher, teaching folks with special needs. And I saw if I don't want to offend anybody with the proper term, and specifically folks with down syndrome, and I was I was actually training a friend's daughter and I haven't met her daughter. I know of her, but I didn't I don't know the daughter. So I was like, That's funny. Weird. I mean, I don't I didn't know what to make of it. But I was training that group of folks with the intent for them to train or to lead laughter sessions for their demographic. Okay. And I was like, because in Canada, I think it's at either 18 or 21. They are kicked out of school, like thanks for stopping by, then they get put on. It's like a disability pension. And it's very small amount of money. It's you can't live on that amount of money, by the way. And if they work, the money is taken off their pension. So there's no incentive to work, but they don't want to work for the money. It's to be part of society. Anyway, so that's my big goal. Anyway, so I phoned up this woman and I said, I had this weird dream, or vision or whatever you might call it in the forest. I don't know what you're gonna think of this, but I feel like I need to share it. So she connected me her daughter attends a group called San it's full access network. And it's a daily club for folks that are out of the school system, so young adults, and she hooked me up with this man who is so dedicated to these people. He just loves them so much and wants them to survive and thrive in life. So when I told him my mission, he was like, wow, okay, let's do something. I don't know if it's gonna work. So I said, let's do something for free. Let's see. Let's see if they're gonna like it. And they loved it so much. We're now in our third month, every Friday, we get together, you know, now we're just introducing it like we're just teaching them laughter yoga right now, like, not talking about training anybody right now, let's just see if anybody like it is getting benefits. The parents are loving it, that their you know, their kids are easier to get along with. They're not having flare ups. I'm giving them tips on when you do get stressed when you're just like, ah, why don't they get me that I'm teaching them to just laugh and that and doing techniques like when we get stressed the blood, lymph, oxygen leaves our brain. So these are the conductors, right? We are electricity, putting your hand on your neuron, sometimes when we're stressed, right? Where we're like, ah, how am I going to do all this stuff? overwhelmed, right? Oh, there's so many things are neurovascular is are here. So when we put our hands sometimes when people are thinking they do this, that those are the neural, right. So you just automatically so I teach them you do this, you can close the loop, putting on your on your back of your head, and then you take deep breaths. And that calms you right down. I tell people to do that before they respond on social media to interesting like, you're like, Ah, it's like, Okay, calm down, because now you're in fight, flight or freeze. Like you've gone into reptile mode. Get out of there, because that's not helpful. As soon as you press send, now you've opened up the floodgates for negativity. Right? If you're responding to something, right,   Roy Barker  31:41 I just say if you think about it, really laughter is a universal language. It's something everybody knows. And even like you said, if you're non verbal, they can still probably laugh. And in that the other thing I was thinking about the for, you know, like the dementia is, is probably good for the caregivers, to know as well. Because when they you know it's in Terry can speak to it more than I can. But I know that it's a very tedious, it can be very stressful at times. And so instead of letting that stress, overwhelm you, is just laugh with.   Terry  32:18 Yeah, just let it out. Because it does get, you know, you just don't think about taking care of you, especially if you're a caregiver, and all of us are in some form or another. But if you're caregiving for a dementia patient, patient on Alzheimer's patient for special needs child things, you know, you just don't take care of yourself. And it's so important that you do because who's going to take care of that person? If you're not around to do it, and you won't be you don't take care of yourself?   Cathy  32:46 Absolutely. Before COVID I was actually going into long term care now, with you know, the, I don't not sure what's happening in the States, but in Canada, they're still not really allowing outdoor activities really, or like outdoor people coming in. But I was going in and they would say, you know, how many people would you like, and they kind of wheel everybody in or people would come in. So it was seated on like my classes that are and so one woman was wheeled in. And she was sleeping like she was kind of like hunched over and she was kind of sleeping, it seemed like she was sleeping her worker stayed with her the whole time. And at one point, so we're, you know, playing along doing our thing. And at one point, the worker said, look at it, she's smiling. So she wasn't playing, she didn't you know, wake up at all. She didn't open her eyes, but at one point she was smiling. So it's like, maybe she was somehow receiving that beautiful laughter energy. It's high vibration, right? When you're stressed when we're afraid when we're in a pandemic. We're just like, worried about we're afraid. And if we watch the news, we get more afraid. Like so you know, just limit your intake of news is one way but so you know, that's not helpful when we're when we're afraid I'm and by the way we cannot heal when we're in stress mode. Because we're in stress mode, we need to get like so when we're in sympathetic mode. We're not we're just again in fight flight or freeze, we need to get into parasympathetic, like, so we need to get into relaxation mode. And that's the only time that we're healing. So even if we're, if we're stressed, and we're still drinking the water eating the good stuff, we're moving exercising, we are still not doing our body any benefit, not not what we're doing benefit, but not, you know, our body's not going to receive the best benefit if we're in stress mode.   Roy Barker  34:38 Yeah, definitely. And it's funny, I need to keep harping on it. But I don't think if you never do this, you don't understand the power of when Terry starts laughing. I can't help but follow along. I mean, no matter what just happened is is so infectious that you just can't not join in. And then when you do it's like You know, I guess all this luck, the dose that you were saying everything that's released, it's like, all of a sudden what you were worried about, it's really not that important anymore. All of a sudden, you're talking about this crazy person laughing.   Terry  35:14 What's going on? That's around. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And Roy has an awesome I mean, he, he has a full body and laughter I'm telling you, he just goes, and I feel like I'm like, sometimes it's in my head. Sometimes it's in my diaphragm. Sometimes it's my belly. When I get a good belly laugh. That's, that's what's the most important right there. That's what really makes me feel high energy.   Cathy  35:42 You want to know why? Here's why. Here's why. The more I learned about laughter, I mean, now I've been laughing full on since 2013. And you know, now the more and more and so every day, I really make sure I get a good belly laugh. And we have, we have blood. So we our heart pumps our blood, we have another fluid called lymphatic fluid. And lymph fluid only moves when we move. And we don't move very much, right? We're very sedentary people now. And so I just recent, so we got to move to move our lamp, which is really great. I've recently learned that our lymphatic fluid also moves when we do deep diaphragmatic breathing. It's kind of our diaphragms, like a pump for our limp. Yeah, so that's why so when you you know, if we're feeling tired and and, you know, depressed if we're depressed, we're not taking up very much space, right? We're small, we're maybe holding ourselves like, we're just like, take, we're just small, we're just sad. And because our cells are depressed, we don't have enough oxygen in our body. So all we need to do I mean, not all there's you probably got to deal with whatever it is that caused you to depression but but if you and not to laugh at that, I don't mean to laugh. Everything's funny. But you know, you just really got to open up you got you got to open up and then just take up more space, like, you know, just be I'm making up for it. If it's anyone listening just to the audio version, I'm opening up my whole body and you got to jump around. Like if you have a rebounder jump on that or a trampoline, or you can even just pretend like you have one. And just like bounce up and down and then your body is having, right, we can live without food and water for a few days. So I get excited. You can live without food and water for a few days. You might be grumpy and uncomfortable. We can only live without oxygen for a few minutes. And laughter forces us right Haha, you can't just Haha, you're only expelling you have to go. Yeah. I'm gonna pause.   Roy Barker  38:06 But yeah, I never really thought about it. So you said that but you know, sometimes when you are in that stress, you know, you're kind of hunched over in just tighter Krillin frame. Yeah. But when you do laugh it it kind of makes you throw your shoulders back, your chest puffed out and just take up more space. Yeah,   Cathy  38:26 yeah, just take up more space. Because then you're you're right, then your cells are taken up more space. That's, that's what we want.   Terry  38:35 I love it.   Roy Barker  38:35 Yeah, no, I think this is awesome. And we need to, it's like, we all need to do it. The other thing it does is it kind of gives us a break from taking ourselves and our life so serious for just about five minutes,   Terry  38:51 wrapped up in your own stuff and, and everybody else's around you that you just don't realize that you're not breathing and, and opening up. You're just curling back into your ball, you know?   Roy Barker  39:04 Well, I used to have a sign on my desk that people would laugh about. I had like, I don't know, 10 things, you know, sweat for the day, learn something new laugh and then I had breathe. And people say, Oh, you got to remind yourself to breathe and be like, No, but I have to remind myself to breathe that deep breath in. Because, you know, I think a lot of us are very shallow breathers. And so getting that oxygen and getting it that deep breath, you know, into our full body. It's very important.   Cathy  39:36 It's so important. It's so important. You know, and just like any modality, you know, as a laughter yoga teacher, I bring all kinds of things. I'm a learner, I love I love new experiences and trying new things and, you know, whatever it is, I just like to try different things and so I during this time I've done all kinds of energy work. And I've incorporated that into Well, I mean, not just this time actually, since I've been doing. Do you have you heard of tapping or Emotional Freedom Technique?   Terry  40:10 Yes, I have, I've kind of read a little bit about it, but I haven't gone deep.   Cathy  40:16 I've been tapping since 1999. I'm so happy that it's mainstream. It's just like, the simple thing. So I get when you I don't know when you attend to my class if I did this, but there are four spots that we really ought to tap on every day. And it's here under your eyes, two fingers, just let gently This is your stomach meridian. This grounds you so then you take a couple of deep breaths here. And then release, you can release with a sigh ha, that's what I do in my class. So that's your stomach, and then your collarbone, you can either rub here or you can tap, this is your kidneys. This is k 27. You don't need to know this. But some people want to know stuff. So this is really good. And we're talking about lymph, our lymph only goes in one direction, and then it ends up here. And this is the gateway and then it dumps into our cardiovascular Can you imagine not to get into the whole cycle of the limp. That's really another whole topic. But if we, if we don't open up this gateway, then our lympho pool here. And this is not anything new. But most heart attacks happen Monday morning. About nine o'clock in the morning, that's the cycle when when the length is and the limp doesn't have a pump. So if it's blocked here, it's not able to go so then the cardiovascular cycle buggers up. Right, so so this is a really great one. And this gives you energy to so that's just do that every day. If nothing else do that. And the next one is will just stand is like on your thigh mm. So Lena how apes do this. They do that because that's your thymus. As we age, our thymus shrinks. And that's to make T cells. So anyone watching that has cancer, tap on your thymus, this isn't and then deep breathe while you're tapping. And then the last one is about a palm with down from your armpit, on your right on your ribs on both sides. That's your spleen. And so those four spots really, really great every day, attend my class. And you'll remember because   Terry  42:27 now, anybody enough times that just go, just go It is an amazing experience.   Cathy  42:33 Yeah. And again, I bring all those other moding healing modalities, the different things I help people like how to sleep, how to get out of stress, you know, just as one example of one way that I've incorporated laughter yoga into my life when I'm driving around, before when there was more traffic. And so I'm driving if somebody cuts me off, I've trained myself that when they cut me off, it's not like, Oh, so why did they bite you? They cut me off. You know, it's never personal, right? It's never personal, although we take it personal. Right? So I'm like, Oh, they cut me off. It cues me to do my laughter yoga. So I'm like, right. So the person thinks that I'm angry because I'm flailing around. And so they're looking I so I get I'm not kidding. I get extra space. Because they're like that, that chicks Cuckoo. And I arrive at my destination. I'm like, Ah, good. I feel great. I'm arrived. I'm like, yeah, ready for my meeting?   Terry  43:41 Brian, I'm gonna be waiting for you to give him   Cathy  43:47 It changes everything. It changes everything. And you know, it's not laughing at a negative situation. Now, there's a documentary that I would encourage people to watch. It's called laugh ology. And it's by by by Albert neuro nurnberg. Yeah, I think that's his name. Sorry, Albert. If I didn't say your last name, right. He was doing this documentary and he went to India to interview Dr. Medan. cutera, the founder of laughter yoga to 26th anniversary. I don't think I said all this yet. So he went to interview him about laughter yoga, and it was the day after the Mumbai bombings. Oh, so he was like, oh, like Ah, I guess I guess we can't and it was in Mumbai there was gonna be so it's like I guess we can't do it. So you'll see if you watch the documentary and it's online. I think you can watch it online for free. You'll see it they the the bombings are in the background how to do and Doc, Dr. Qatari was like no, we have to do it. We have to do it because we need we need this right now. We're really stressed and we need to bring a little bit of levity even though it's not laughing at the bombings. It's laughing because of the bombings so that they could heal from it.   Roy Barker  45:00 Powerful. Yeah, I know he is. And I don't think we, you know, there's a lot of science on that, like you said, holding that stress in from whether it's the bombings or a driver or bad service somewhere that we hold that in and it can make us it can really advance illnesses that we have, it doesn't let us heal, like you said, and then it can actually cause us to be sick. I mean, a lot of people just carry so much stress around that they just perpetually sick, more susceptible to, you know, colds and viruses and things like that. So, a lot of science behind this just, you got it, we got to laugh it off and get out of that stressful place that we're in, nothing helps more than, and, you know, I'm blessed to have Terry in my life that it because it's even better when you have somebody to laugh with. Because, you know, sometimes we're not always aware that we really needed or that we're going into that bad place where our partner can be like, hey, let's, let's have a little laughter here. We got to get break out of this for just a minute.   Terry  46:03 And laugh at. I mean, you know, me, I laugh at myself, I you know, I laugh at myself all the time. Mostly, it's, I would say, a little bit of it is self deprecating, but it you know, I can laugh at myself, but I can laugh at Roy to it. Especially laughing You know, he is just he's just funny. He's just, he's just funny and he doesn't even know it. And I know I don't mean that in a bad way.   Cathy  46:37 You know, earlier, Roy when you said that you didn't used to lock your door and then until Terry came along, I thought you had precious cargo then keep you safe. You know what happens when we you were talking about people carrying around stress? Here's what happens. Here's what happens. Let me tell you what happens when when we have when we experience some kind of traumatic experience, experience experience twice a month since that's. So what happens is we take a deep breath in like, like something was shocking. So it gets and then it gets into our body if we don't deal with it at that moment, or very shortly after, it just becomes part of our belly. And then the next one on top and on top and on top. So when a rabbit gets chased by a predator if it survives, it will go under a tree and shake because you know that's pretty traumatic. You well you made you escaped that one, rabbit. So they shake that trauma energy off. We don't we don't shake we just hold it in. We're like, Oh, no, I'm good. I'm okay. into Sigmar Wow,   Roy Barker  47:54 I guess that once it once that settles in our belly, it probably just compounds and I mean I'm, I'm just thinking about like myself because I'm the worst at that, you know, you just suck it in, deal with it, move on. And, you know, that can probably be a lot of calls for you know, weight flow weight gain as well.   Cathy  48:13 That's where I was headed. Right? Because then, then you're like, Oh, I want to be safe, like, you know, then so then you might eat things that might not be the best or you might not move as much because you're like, then you just start getting in into not into your body then you're just in your head and then your body is kind of just an appendage. Oh,   Roy Barker  48:39 interesting.   Cathy  48:40 I have rock hard ABS by the way and I don't do and that's just from laughter yoga. If you were here, I'd let you touch my abs   Terry  48:47 gosh no, I mean if you're gonna show those off Yeah, I have to make some take a photo shoot. Coming up that kind of shows the   Roy Barker  49:08 you know when you do laugh like that that full belly though it works your core i mean you can feel it all the way down three so I never really thought about that side benefit of it.   Cathy  49:17 And and cheeks right cheek. Anyone that's had a good belly laugh your cheeks your maybe that you're cleaning your eyes because you're rolling down. Your cheeks are hurting. Right like look at my skin. I'm 58 I look pretty good. God.   Terry  49:32 Oh my God. You do? I love that. I know. I want to make sure I know. We're kind of running up against time but I want to make sure that we talk about your sprouts too. Oh, yes, please. I have my sprouter right here. Yes ma'am. So strokkur it's Yeah, go ahead. No, no, I would please go.   Cathy  49:55 Oh, so there's so the sprouts are just so that's the what I say Kathy Crawley laughing being Queen That's the being Queen part. Oh, that's right that we're talking about. Yeah, that's perfect. And so it's so sprouting is really, sprouts are the original fast food. There's like the mung beans will germinate, especially in a warm climate and overnight, you've probably experienced that. So when the, the, the root is the size of the beam, that's when they're ready. That's when they're most nutritious. So everything's there to grow that little sprout into a full, full grown plant. So it just makes sense that it's more nutritious than the full grown plant. And the mung beans are the ones that that I have as my health plan just because they are super fast. They're juicy, they're tasty. And so let me tell you some really, I'm gonna sound so smart, but here's some really wonderful words about what sprouts are. hydrating alkalizing regenerative biogenic, and they contain up to 100 times more digestive enzymes than raw vegetables. Wow. Oh,   Terry  51:01 wow.   Cathy  51:03 So here's the thing about enzymes and I think that's the really important piece because we could take a multivitamin if we wanted, we could eat fiber, we could do those things, all those those are all in your mung beans. Those are all in your sprouts, but the the enzyme so when we're born, we're given a certain amount of enzymes, when we're eating, if we're not eating salad or you know, sprouts, then our body's using our reserves and as we start to age we get digestive issues. We go to the doctor the doctor says here's a prescription for enzyme pills. Instead of taking a pill, like eating the like growing your own you save money you know it's healthier and these are so full of fiber that like it's like you can eat as much as you want. Oh, you can't because you actually fill up with nutrients no   Terry  51:52 interesting Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean we've been trying well we've been eating as we've been eating plant based probably how long right   Roy Barker  52:02 probably about two months maybe   Terry  52:05 like probably since April.   Roy Barker  52:08 Yeah, time is really good.   Terry  52:09 I don't know you know, it's yeah times relative. But But since April as much as we can you know, at first we went full force and then it was like okay, well we can't be that stringent, you know, we got to add a little bit here and there so you know, more Mediterranean but a lot of plant based as much as we can and know that we notice a huge difference. So adding the sprouts I mean and and when I started purchasing you know groceries for that, for the plant based eating everything that cane wha all the lentils and all of the everything was like sprouted, sprouted, I'm like, Okay, do I want to sprout it? I don't know if I want sprout it, I didn't really know much about it. And I still kind of don't, but I'm just going with it. So the sprouts are that they add the enzymes and help with digestion. What? What else? What else help me.   Cathy  53:09 So sometimes people will eat beans, and now they're like, Oh, am I gonna get you know, bloated and flatulence and all of that like, gains but I don't like the after effect. It's like so what happens is seeds and beans have a coating on them called phytic acid pH Why? And it's that acid that's a protection for the cedar bean. So if it gets eaten by a bird or an animal, and passes right through and then it can still grow. So so if we eat those pains, if we cook those beans without soaking them and getting rid of that so quarter or sprouting them, that coating is still on there. So the beans are good, but that acid our body doesn't know what to do with it. So then it causes bloating or you know, flat Okay, never and challenges. So when you soak them, they're called oligosaccharides. Again, I sound so smart, don't. Those are the sugars. Those are the sugars that cause flatulence, the oligosaccharides so when you when you sprout your seeds, there's fewer of those. Ah, okay. Yeah. And it opens it up. It really makes it sort of like, the seeds, like a little rock. It's like, everything's, you know, jammed in there. It's Yeah. So then you you sprout it and it just starts to come alive. And it's like, okay, now it's something   Roy Barker  54:28 interesting. All right, Cathy. Well, we were running way long and not your fault. We were very interested. This is all really good information. And yeah, we appreciate you staying around a little bit longer and telling us telling us all about it. It's been great. So before we do get away a couple things, first off, what is a tool or a habit? Laughter let's put laughter aside because I know that that's something you do every day. But what is something that you do every day, that adds a lot Value either professionally or personally,   Cathy  55:03 I start my day, I actually bookend my day with a little exercise routine, like just kind of some gentle stretches, some of the tapping every morning, some really gentle breaths, it only takes a five minute routine. And I do that as well before I go to bed. And those are two things that I do every day and then drinking enough water, I   Roy Barker  55:30 can't even put up, I can't even tell you, I have to throw myself under the bus, say I'm the worst I can make myself do it for a few days. And then I just fall completely off the wagon on that. And it's so important. And for so many different things. It's not just for one thing, but for so many different things. So drink that water, start your day with exercise. Good advice. So tell us how well go through, I think at least three or four different things, but talk about, you know, the things that you are into how people can reach out and either purchase the product or get ahold of you if they want to partake, like in the laughter, yoga, things like that.   Cathy  56:12 Yeah, I would love for people to come and experience my Tuesday laughter club. It's 930. Eastern on zoom at this time, and it's free. That's that's probably the best offering that I have. At this time, because it's so easy. And I am looking for people that are in assisted living or people that are like funders, because I am looking to do a pilot project I would really, you know, about my mission that my upcoming mission that I'm going to do that i don't know how i did contact the founder of laughter yoga, and I said, Is anybody in the world doing this? Is anybody in the world teaching people with special needs to lead laughter classes? And he said, No. So I'll do it. In my spare time, I'll do that. I would like to end by just saying I believe with my, my three branches. I have world hunger solved. And I have world peace solved.   Roy Barker  57:13 Awesome. We need to get on that train. So how can they How can they reach out and get a hold of me?   Cathy  57:20 I'm Cathy's club is my website for laughter Cathy's Cathy's composters.com is my worm website. And I'm all over social media like Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter.   Roy Barker  57:33 Yeah. And that's we'll put all this in the show notes. But that's Cathy with a C. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. All right. Well keep us informed. We, you know, we want to know how this is going. I the the laughter part is just everybody needs to partake in that. I don't think you really understand the power of it unless you do it a few times. And then you know, taking this to the different communities like the aging community and special needs. I think that's even even a great mission. I think that's awesome. Good   Terry  58:05 for you can't see. Oh my gosh, I love it. And I'm coming back. I need I need another dose. I always need one but I'm coming back.   Roy Barker  58:14 Oh, that's what I was gonna say is that you'd be surprised how this works. distance, you know, remotely through zoom or you could do a FaceTime. Anyway, I guess you could even just do the audio version. It's nicer to see people but Oh, yeah, yeah, don't let the distance scare you off. You can really get a lot of benefit out of it virtually as well. Alright, then that's going to do it for another episode of Feeding Fatty Of course. I'm   Terry  58:42 your host, Roy and Terry,   Roy Barker  58:44 you can find us at www.feedingfatty.com we're on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, if we're not a one that you listened to reach out we'd be glad to add it. Also, we're on all the major social media platforms probably hang out mostly on Instagram. That's where you can find us if you want to reach out we also will have a video of this when this episode when it goes live you can find on YouTube as well. So Till next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health. www.cathysclub.com www.feedingfatty.com

How To Start Living Your Best Life After 50 with Jan Malloch I realized there was a huge, huge gap in the market because there weren't personal trainers who are older, who could, you know, really empathize and whatnot with older men and women for that matter. Because, you know, you'll find older people will go to a personal trainer, and they'll be in their 20s, maybe their 30s. About Jan I'm a Fitness and Lifestyle Transformation coach for professional women over 50. I totally transformed my life at 62. I lost weight and qualified as a personal trainer specializing in helping older women to be fitter. Prior to this change, I never fully appreciated the importance of health and fitness, especially as you get older. I worked at a desk job, and was sedentary most of the time. Doing any form of physical exercise never entered my mind. I then came to the stark realization that my poor eating habits and lack of mobility were killing me. That's when I made the decision to do something about my life. The thought of ending up in a care home, sitting in the corner dribbling and being immobile really scared me. Unlike the vast majority of personal trainers, I know exactly how it feels to struggle to lose weight and how exhausting it is to be unfit. I also know how it feels to be older! All of these experiences have given me a much better understanding and empathy with my clients. I can personally relate to all of the women I work with – and they in turn relate to me. Let me ask you…do you relate to any of the following? Perhaps, as an older woman, you focus too much of your time on your work and families, to the detriment of your own health and well-being. Returning from work after a hectic and stressful day, you are then faced with trying to sort out the problems that your husband and kids are going through. A feeling of exhaustion and overwhelm often results in reaching for that wine bottle and ordering a takeout meal – just to escape from the havoc that is enveloping you. Much of the evening is spent in front of the TV. You continually make poor lifestyle choices regards your health, which leads to weight gain, lethargy and fatigue. And the more weight you put on, the more fatigued and stressed you become. My role is to stop this vicious cycle. I help older women to appreciate the critical importance of prioritizing their own health and fitness so that they can enjoy a dramatically improved healthy quality of life. Jan Malloch Website www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below   How To Start Living Your Best Life After 50 with Jan Malloch Sun, 6/27 2:12PM • 53:06 SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, talking, day, walk, gym, personal trainer, weight, eat, overweight, healthy, jan, minutes, bit, work, life, age, lose, bad, adds, habit SPEAKERS Jan, Terry, Roy Barker   Roy Barker  00:07 Hello, and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty. This   Terry  00:09 is Roy, this is Terry. So   Roy Barker  00:10 we are the podcast that we're chronicling our journey through getting healthy can include, you know, our diet, what we eat our exercise, and of course, we have changed in, you know, talk a lot about mindset these days. So well, on our Tuesday releases, we usually have professionals, other people that are in the industry.   And then on Thursdays, we have been releasing, you know, kind of our personal stories where we are in our journey. And we've been talking a lot about diabetes, just because that is something that I deal with a lot. So anyway, without further ado, Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Jan   Terry  00:50 Jan Malloch is a fitness and lifestyle transformational coach, for professional women over 50. She worked a desk job and was sedentary most of her life. She has a varied background, work and education. And is she is a coach. So, Jan, I just would love for you to, we'd love for them to hear from you as far as your background and how you found yourself in this position.   Jan  01:21 Well, I mean, certainly, I mean, I qualified as a personal trainer about three years ago, that was when I was 62. So doesn't take a mathematician to know I'm now 65, right?   Terry  01:31 Where you would have to help me with.   Jan  01:35 But I tell you how my journey started not because, you know, as you'd said, I'd always been sort of, you know, sitting in an office and all the rest of it. And I really didn't care too much for fitness or going to the jammer. And that because, you know, when you were younger, you didn't really bother, you know, because everybody's everybody's fit, everybody can do what they need to do and all the rest of it. But as I was getting older, FM certainly when I was in my early 50s, I thought I'm gonna have to watch you know what I'm doing, you know, health wise.   Now, my parents, and I have to say this better my parents, both of them died in their 50s. Yeah. Which was not good. And the thing was that both of them died because of their own poor lifestyle choices. That was that they both drank to excess, and they smoked to access. And they really just did not look after themselves. So my father, he died when he was 54. My mother was 59. And what I discovered was really, it was a case of Do you know what I'm now 52.   I don't want this to happen. Yeah. So basically, I stopped drinking, I stopped smoking. And that was that. But as the years went on, I found that I was still putting on weight. And I thought, you know what, I'm gonna have to do something about my weight. Because as we know, weight problems now are pretty well, as bad as being a smoker. In the olden days, if you don't realize how bad it is. So what I did was I started to lose weight.   And what I did was, I thought, you know, what, I really need to, you know, get some exercise, go to the gym, and all the rest of it. But again, I joined gyms before, but you know, you pay your monthly membership, you never actually go, but you feel as if you've done something by paying   Terry  03:33 for it.   Jan  03:36 So, you know, I got and I got this idea of what I could do is, if I really want to sort of try and get myself to go to the gym, they actually had a they had a volunteer program, and it was an actually aging Well, it was called. And it was noted to help people over 50 to be you know, Fisher. And I thought if I volunteer for this, this might encourage me to go to the gym. Yeah. Now, of course, the thing was, I didn't know what sort of volunteer work I'm going to do.   Because I thought, right, I'll meet with this woman and she'll say, Well, how about Chang can fix our computers or we can do a bit of receptionist work or something of that, you know, something that was more based on what I had done before. But she, she sort of talked to me and she said john, do you fancy training to do seated exercise for frail older adults? And I thought, Oh, I could do that. So that's where I started on my fitness journey.   And then I thought, right well, what I'm gonna do is I'm because I'm just beginning to lose weight because of, you know, the the exercise I was doing, and I thought, let's become a gym instructor. And then when I became a gym instructor, they said to me on the course john, you need to be a personal trainer. That's what you need to do. And that's what I did. And then I focused on older people. But the thing is that I So I've lost track of what we were talking.   Roy Barker  05:06 Now you were just talking about how your, your path to becoming that person, you   Jan  05:09 know you well, this is it? Yes. Basically, I think I'm really, I think it's a case of whenever you get opportunities, you don't know where they're gonna go. And what you want to do is grab hold of those opportunities. Because obviously, if I hadn't have gone along to volunteer with the gym, I would probably still be sitting in an office somewhere still overweight, not looking after myself.   Terry  05:35 Yeah, new opportunities just breed possibilities for new life.   Roy Barker  05:40 I mean, exactly, exactly. You have to be open to them. That's the main thing is we have to be open and willing to take that chance willing to learn,   Terry  05:48 willing to learn Yeah, no, I   Roy Barker  05:50 think that's awesome. You know, we, I think a couple things I was writing down while you were talking there is that, you know, sitting is the new smoking. And that's why, you know, so many of us now are tied to a computer, and then then a lot of people that made a transition from working in an office to working from home.   And it's, it is hard to realize this, and this is no lie, that working at home, if I don't make an effort to actually do something else, I can usually end up the day with maybe three to 500 steps total, you know, walking from the bedroom, bathroom, desk, kitchen, desk, back to the bedroom. And that's it. And so, you know, I think it's just become more Paramount that we have to actually be conscious of this. So we can take that extra effort to do things, you know, get up because it's going to catch up with us.   Either orthopedically, you know, setting on our hips and our back and everything else or the weight that we've gained, because I'll have to say I've put on a few, you know, COVID pounds myself. But we really have to make that effort to say we've got to we got to move today, because it really doesn't matter how eight how old we are. It's gonna catch up with us eventually. There's just no.   Jan  07:12 It's interesting to Roy, because you were talking about, and it's funny how this has now come into our language. COVID pounds, that's now a part of our everyday language, isn't it? But the thing is, there are a lot of people who they've actually taken advantage of the situation and they've actually become better. Oh, no, because, you know, they're working from home. So therefore, they don't have all this commute and all that. So they might have a bit more spare time. So they are looking after themselves. But I would say the vast majority of us aren't. We've everything slide.   Roy Barker  07:48 Somebody was telling me that, you know, they they say they called the COVID-19 that they not team pounds I put on my wall. I'm an overachiever. I have the COVID 38. Because I think probably I've doubled that for sure. But it's uh, you know, our gyms were shut down for a little bit. And that, you know, that, you know, a lot of people catch me like, Well, you know, you don't have to work out to lose weight.   You know, it's all 80% your diet, which I get that, but for me personally, I think they're all intertwined and tied together that, for me to feel good. And for me to, to be able to walk by something that is not healthy. I need to be moving and feel healthy feel like I'm doing because if I'm just sitting around the house not doing anything. To me, it's so much easier to eat bed.   Jan  08:41 Well, the thing is, exercise isn't just for trying to lose weight, exercise, it's just to stay healthy. That's the important thing is   Terry  08:50 important for mindset, important for mindset, right? Isn't that and   Jan  08:55 what is it? Well, this is obviously, in this COVID thing. I mean, a lot of people are suffering from really bad mental health issues, stress, anxiety, all the rest of it. And the thing is, if you're locked away in your own house, in those four walls, you're going to get really feeling low, you're going to feel depressed. But if you can just go out and at least have a bit of a walk out in the fresh air. Think about things, you know, just even look at a tree and say, Wow, that's amazing. You know, I couldn't build a tree. You know, things like that, you know, it's just to focus in and really start appreciating what you've got out there. That's the thing.   Roy Barker  09:36 Yeah. Yeah. And for me creativity, you know, like I do a lot of, you know, problem solving. So if I get kind of jammed up or whatever, it's amazing just going out and taking that 15 minute walk, how it clears my head. And it also, I guess it kind of sparks my creativity because not only I'm working on but Luckily for Terry, it gives me a chance to think about other ideas for her to implement. He's like, I gotta go walk with you. So I can talk with you. So you don't think it's   Terry  10:10 a great idea. Think about all these other things that he wants to end.   Roy Barker  10:15 But, but even going with that, with that theory that the other part I think that troubles me is I love to go to the gym. But when I go to the gym, I love to stay for two or three hours, because I like to do some cardio, I like to do the weights. If they have a punching bag, or you know, do whatever, just a little bit of everything. And but sometimes you get in this this rut of Well, I don't have two hours to go spin. But yeah, it's not really about that. I mean, I have to refocus and say, you know, what, if I could just go get 15 minutes in two things. It's 15 minutes, I'm moving, but it's 15 minutes, I'm not sitting in front of a TV eating something that I shouldn't be eating.   Jan  11:00 Exactly, yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. I mean, obviously, if you're trying to get out of habits of, you know, I mean, people say, oh, what I do is I sit in front of the TV, and I eat all this junk food and whatnot. And they'll start saying, Well, what could I eat instead? well forget about eating altogether. Think about what else could I do? That's the important thing.   Roy Barker  11:25 Yeah, being in motion. And, you know, we think that we've talked about, you know, we talk pre show about some other stuff, but you know, about the, you know, my watch that I'm wearing now, cuse me to try to get 250 steps in every hour, instead of waiting, you know, to the end of the day, because we've talked that, for me, it's easier to commit to.   I can get up for two or three minutes, every hour to take a few steps. versus if I wait and say, Okay, I'm going to the gym or even get out in the neighborhood and walk tonight. So many things that can come up between now and tonight. Like, don't feel like it anymore. Maybe it starts to rain, you know, a million things, but we need to that little incremental stuff, it really adds up and is probably a much better plan. Would you say?   Jan  12:17 Oh, definitely. I mean, it's amazing how many excuses you can come up with, not to do particular things. Especially I mean, if you're talking about an hour or two hours, that's a huge chunk of your day. But if you knew you were just getting up from two, three minutes, even five minutes, it's no big deal. You know, you can do it. it's manageable. That's the thing. I think a lot of people when they're saying, oh, I've got to do all this stuff, I've got to go to the gym, and I've got to dedicate hours and hours and hours. No, you don't. You've got to start somewhere. And always start small, and do things that you enjoy doing. That's the important thing.   Roy Barker  12:57 Yeah, yeah. And we'll kind of keep on top of that consistency. Because, you know, if you will do those small things every day, over a length of time, you will start to see the compounding effect of that. Whereas, you know, if you make a commitment to get up and walk for a couple minutes for a day, you're not gonna see much effect of that. So that consistency factor is, and that's hard. You know, that's hard. that's usually where we fail with a lot of things is, we can do it for two or three weeks.   But it's trying to make that mindset change to where, you know, this is a life style change, this isn't permitted thing. And I think if we, I may, I'm gonna ask this as a question. But if we try to visualize the change that we want, in the incremental steps, not in this huge package, it makes it much easier for us to achieve, you know, what do I actually need to do today? worry about that knot. I've got all this, you know, I want to do all of this within a year, but you know, maybe what do I need to do today to be held   Jan  14:03 up? It's really a case of you break it all down into tiny, tiny chunks. That's it, you know, so, you know, don't be sort of thinking, right, okay, in a year's time, I want to lose 100 pounds in weight, something like that. I don't think that's way too big a goal to be looking at. What you want to be doing is saying every day, Well, today, I'm going to eat more vegetables. I'm going to forget that cake or whatever. And I'm going to keep doing it. And you know what, before you know what, you've actually lost that 100 pounds without really having to sacrifice too much in your life. That's the important thing. Yeah,   Terry  14:43 read there. I'm gonna I'm gonna remember that. Forget the cake. I'm gonna keep saying that's gonna be my mind. From now on. Forget the cake.   Jan  14:53 Well, you know one thing you know, it's very easy nowadays. You go into the supermarket and everything's there. And not only Is it there? But, you know, they're making it so cheap, you know, for all these, this junk food is just so drastically cheap, it's ridiculous. And you go and buy it, they're even thinking, and you know what? Well, let's reverse this try and say, Well, if I want a cake, then I'm gonna have to buy the flour, the eggs, the milk, I'm gonna have to find your recipe, and I'm gonna have to bake this, you know, think about that. Yeah. And then at least it's a bit of effort you're having to put in, rather than just reaching into the cupboard and eating.   Roy Barker  15:33 I don't think about it in those terms. But you're right, it's so easy for us to eat bad these days. because like you said, everything's ready made.   Terry  15:41 Yeah. All together, you don't have to, you don't have to use your time to do with the prep work.   Roy Barker  15:47 Yeah, or the drive throughs. You know, we were we were talking to, you know, another young man this morning. And that was kind of what he was saying that, you know, he plays in a band. And when he left, he had a long drive home. And he said, he always had to go by a particular restaurant with the drive thru. And it was very easy for him to pull in. And then it was kind of like, satisfying his boredom while he had this long drive. And he said, you know, eventually, he could see that, that started taking a toll on him.   Jan  16:16 And that was definitely a habit, because what he would have been doing is in a particular part of his journey, he would say, Oh, I'm just approaching this driving, which we will not name. That's just approaching this. So your mind then says, okay, right. That means you have to buy this, and we're going to have to eat this. And so the habit soon came into to action, whether he was wanting it or not, it was gonna happen. Yeah,   Roy Barker  16:44 yeah. In the intro, I taught I've begun to mention this more is that, you know, we started out this talking about changing some of our eating habits, and then like, trying to get consistent with our Yeah, be more consistent with the exercise and things that we did through the day. But we've really migrated to mindset because, again, you know, some things that you've mentioned, like having the big 100 pound goal in a year, it's daunting.   And if you think about that, it makes you want to go eat something, whereas you think about, I just need to get these steps in, you know, in sometimes maybe we take it minute by minute, if I got a couple minutes, I need to get some steps in it's better than eating. But the mindset portion of this very important, not only to get started, but then that sustainability as well.   Jan  17:34 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think actually talking about that, you really need a good, good reason why you want to lose the weight. That's the thing. Yeah. And it has to be an internal thing. You have to, you know, do this for yourself, you know, you there's no point in your husband and wife, or whatever, saying, Oh, you know, you're getting all fat, you've got to lose weight. That's not helping you. Because you're not you haven't bought into that idea. You've got to buy into it.   And you've got to list all the reasons why you want to lose the weight. I mean, for instance, I mean, I did lose 70 pounds, but I'm sure you're thinking well, I lost 70 pounds, because I want to be healthy. I've got two young grandkids, I want to be able to be at their weddings, I want to be able to dance, their weddings and all that. So health is absolutely crucial for me. So what you do is you find that if there are any sort of weak moments that you have, what you do is you just remind yourself of these flies, and that keeps you going.   Roy Barker  18:41 Now I will say Terry is very slender, and very nice figure. But I have not lived this long by being dumb and saying, Hey, honey, you've got to put on a few pounds. Maybe you need to hit the gym over there. Something like that. Yeah,   Terry  18:55 I say it. It's one thing, but I might have to whack you over the head find me very well,   Roy Barker  19:03 I am somewhere.   Jan  19:04 Interesting thing is, and this happened to Oh, this was a good 10 years ago or so that my husband said, john, it's this since when I was big. And he said, john, you know, why is it that you whatever goal you set yourself, you can achieve it. But you're still so heavy. And that actually set me on the road to thinking I'm gonna prove him wrong. So now this doesn't work with everybody, but it certainly worked with me. I thought I'll show him I will. I'm gonna go and lose this weight. You know?   Terry  19:39 Isn't that something? Oh, I love that. I mean, I you know, and I have not. I carried probably for about 1520 years I I carried a good amount of weight and about three years ago. I start I mean made myself go work at a farmers market? out, I wanted to be paid to go be fit and go do exactly, you know, I wouldn't get paid a lot, but I knew that something had to motivate me to do it. And I needed to do it. So I was able to lose at like 8590 pounds.   Roy Barker  20:18 Wow. Yeah. And she you know, every day she would, I don't know, you probably got a minimum of 12,000 steps. But you were, you know, bending over lift and stuff move into it. You know, it's just constant motion all day long. Which That's awesome. And you were you are getting paid to be fit?   Terry  20:37 Yes, me Yes, fit. And then I had a goal, I figured out a way to make it hat and I didn't think about I've just thought about I wanted to be fit, I wanted to lose a little weight. I didn't think about the overall picture, I just these little steps. And that's exactly what happened. Oh, it's just clicking. It did. Yep.   Jan  20:57 Yep. So you found the solution. That's the thing, don't be focusing on the problems. And I think a lot of people just focus on problems, what you want to do is come up with a solution. That's the idea. And you achieve that really well, without having too much of a stack base, and even got a few pennies at the end of the week as well.   Terry  21:18 A few, very few, but I got so that was the main thing.   Roy Barker  21:23 The Um, so starting out, everybody is different. And this is one thing that we talk about frequently is that, you know, if you're going to work with somebody, if they say, hey, I've got this great plan that's worked for 50 other people, that may be a little bit of a red flag for me, because I want somebody to ask questions to try to make, you know, like, I don't like to run, I don't mind walking the weights and all that, but I'm not much of a runner.   So if you came at me and said, Hey, the great solution for you is run 10 miles every day or something. I mean, I'm not make it for a day, but that that's gonna be it. So how do you start out? You know, if somebody was to ring you up and say, Hey, I'd really like to work with you. How do you start out with that?   Jan  22:08 Well, really, it's it's a case of obviously asking a lot of questions. I mean, obviously, you have to get to know the person first. Because you have to build up that rapport, where you know, that you will work together? Well, because remember, I'm basically taking responsibility for helping them to be healthier. Yeah. And they have also got quite a responsibility to do what I'm asking them to do. That's the thing. So the thing is, as you were saying, right, everybody is totally different. Everybody's got different goals. Everybody's got different requirements.   So it's really a case of right. What do you actually want to achieve? Yeah, let's see where you are. This is point A, let's see what you want to do at point B. And let's see what we can do to make this happen. Yeah. So then, yeah, as you say, if somebody says, There's no way I want to do any running or anything, so therefore, you obviously wouldn't get them to train for the marathon. That's it. Right? Whereas a lot of people would say, Oh, that's the only way to lose weight is to run a marathon and things like that, well, that's a load of nonsense, you know.   So you have to finely tune it to that particular person and their needs. Because Do you know, exercise if we can start thinking about this as more like play because obviously, as a kid, you were out playing all the time, and you enjoyed it, you were physically active, because you were playing, you did what you enjoy. So this is what you want to do with exercise, trying to think of it as more like play, and you're wanting to do what you want, not what you're being told to do   Roy Barker  23:47 right now. Yeah. And you can flip that switch by instead of the oh my gosh, it's time for me to go to the gym, I have to go again. We we should turn that around and say, You know what, I get to go I mean, because it's if you think about other people who are in worse physical shape, or may have even died from not being in good health, it's actually a privilege that you can actually go and so kind of flipping that switch was is exactly the right way to think about that.   Jan  24:17 Wow, that is brilliant. I've got your number now. Wow, I mean, that's it because you'll say Well, hold on. I can go to the gym because I can I physically can go to the gym. That's right.   Roy Barker  24:32 Yeah. When you get to be a certain age like myself, it's uh, you know, you look around a lot of people that haven't made it this far or that are in so much worse, worse health, that just can't they wish they could and then here I am perfectly healthy and think that it's a chore that I have to do so. But also talking about the, you know, selecting somebody to work with. It's good to have this trust because you're going to ask me to do things that I need to have this trust and a connection with you.   To be like, okay, she knows what she's doing and not be resistance and put up like, yeah, you know that fuss with you about, Hey, I just need to do what I'm asking I'm gonna get an outcome. And then also you have that cheerleader, the accountability and that you know, because there are going to be days that even the most active person is going to be like, I'm tired. I don't really feel like it. But that's where you can kind of be that the voice of reason. therapist, yeah,   Jan  25:31 yeah. But yes, you meet, you actually need that accountability. I mean, I have my I have a personal trainer. Now I only trained with him once a week. But you know, a lot of people say, you got a personal trainer, you are a personal trainer, you could just make out of your own workout programs to go along to the gym and all that. And I say, Well, I'm not necessarily wanting to go to the gym. That's a problem.   Yeah, right. But if I know, at half past two and a Monday afternoon, I'm seeing my personal trainer. Well, I think of myself as being a reliable person. So I don't want to let him down. I don't want to let me down. So therefore I go. And the thing is, once you're there, it's brilliant. And of course, obviously, he builds up my confidence and all the rest. And, you know, you'll say, Oh, well, I want you to look this certain way, you know, this week? And you'll say, you'll say to yourself, no, I don't know if I could do that. But he'll say, Oh, yes, you can. And before you know what, you have actually done what he reckons you can do. That's great.   Roy Barker  26:36 Yeah, no, that's a good point that, you know, even trainers have to have trainers, because it's like a, you know, a barber, a barber can't cut his own hair. And then, you know, with warriors, they say any lawyer that tries to represent himself has a fool for a client. So you know, it only makes good sense that you know, that we all need that help. And that encouragement no matter what position we're in. Exactly, yes, yes.   Terry  27:00 Yeah. And I don't like I mean, I, I have never had a trainer or coach or anything. Maybe that's what I'm, I need one. But I don't like to be told what to do. And there's a fine line there. Right? I don't they don't tell you. They encourage Yes,   Roy Barker  27:17 I strongly. Yeah, the nice thing about the trainer too, is I had one that actually came to the house. So you know, there was no escaping this guy. Because if I was on the phone talking with somebody, and he like did a little Knock, knock. If I wasn't on the door, immediately, he was like banging on the windows, like, I know, you're in there, you're not I'm not going away. But he really made sure that I got this. And that was the beauty of having him come to the house is I didn't have to make a decision to get a car and to drive somewhere.   And the other cool thing about it is, you know, kind of like you do It's like he wasn't just standing, we weren't going to a gym, and he was standing there counting reps on a machine working on. I mean, like he personally designed. We're, you know, kind of odd stuff for me to do you know, if we worked with the big one of those big old bouncy balls rolling on it, and they had some other things that he would bring in the house. And it just just wasn't routine. Yeah, yeah, not the same thing every day. But it was also like trying to work on building core, as well as extremities, but not just, you know, going in and saying, Okay, give me 10 you know, give me 10 on the arms and then one.   Jan  28:32 Yeah, that that's interesting. Because my, my personal trainers like that, he will always give me a variety of different things to do. And, you know, I remember when I started with, and this has been 18 months ago when I started working with him. And I said to him, are you going to tell me what we're actually going to do today? You said no. Good answer. I told you what we weren't gonna do, you would probably just walk out the door.   Roy Barker  29:02 Yeah, when I would hear my god drive up, I'd look out the window and see what he was getting out of his truck that day that we're gonna have to go through. But yeah, it's important because it's the again, we're looking for that consistency, you know, taking smaller steps. And that's the great thing about asking the questions, finding out where I am in this journey, you know, am I overweight? And have I been active because then you can design something to start me out slow.   And I think one one thing you talked about with some of your clients that are especially that are aging, some is one of your assessments is like how many times can you get up and down out of a chair, which is impressive. Yeah. Because the you know, no matter what we're all at this. We've all got something especially the older we get, we all have something that may be a little bit quirky about us that, you know, maybe bad hip, bad arm or whatever, but that allows that kind of personalization of what we're going to do.   Jan  30:00 Yeah, I think actually, although, you know, you're talking about sort of, you know, if I were dealing with older people, which I tend to do, but remember now, people in their 20s 30s can be extremely overweight. Yeah. And they might as well be in their 60s or 70s. Because of their lack of mobility. That's the thing. You know,   Roy Barker  30:22 are you seeing a lot of that? Oh, yes, yes. Okay. You know, now that you mentioned it, I think I did read something not long ago about that. They, they're kind of worried about this being an epidemic of the younger people being overweight and then having the diabetes as well.   Jan  30:40 Well, this is what they're saying. Because you think about it, if you have a whole load of young younger people who are totally overweight, who, who are going to be our policemen, or firemen. Yeah, all these jobs that need you need to be physically fit to do and it really is really worrying, you know, when you think on it, because we've got, and it's the same boat in the States or Britain or wherever you are, two thirds of the population is overweight or obese. Wow. And that only means we've only got a third of the population that are what would be classed as healthy enough to do physical dopes? Yeah, yeah, we   Terry  31:21 need those youngsters to stay fit and in shape, so they take care of us. I mean, we need to be fit, we're gonna be so healthy, we'll be looking at that. Right, we're gonna have to do it ourselves.   Roy Barker  31:36 A great time in life. For me, because I grew up in the age of, you know, you went outside and you had a rock and a stick. And that was how you entertained yourself. Today, you know, we rode bicycles, we played football by you know, just like pickup games in the neighborhood. But it was constant activity. We didn't have a video game. I think in the end, my later years maybe Pong came out but it you know, we had little things that slid up and down. But you know that I got pretty old after a while. But, you know, swimming, we always had places to go hunting, fishing. I mean, goodness, we were just it was constant activity.   And then, you know, that's one thing that really hurt me when I got to, you know, be in my 20s settle down, start having a family and a job then, you know, all that went away. And that was kind of when I started adding a little bit of weight. But you know, the good news is now I've kind of transitioned that we have all this technology at our hands and we can talk about that a little bit but unfortunate some of the other thing was the freedom to be on Rome. Our parents didn't really have to worry if we were coming home sometimes they more were worried that we make found our way home,   Terry  32:48 which is by darn by the time the streetlights Come on. Just get home. Yeah, but you know, now finally now. I   Jan  32:55 mean, you're talking about you know, how it was before I took my two I've got a grandchild, I'm sorry, two grandsons. One is age two, one is age six. Oh, and what I did was, and a lot of their time is spent in front of screens. That's it. But I thought one afternoon, I thought no, we're going to go out. And I'm going to show them just as I did when I was a girl, how to make bows and arrows. Yeah. So we literally went out.   And we chose the sticks. And I brought the twine, and I had my my pen knife thing and all that sort of thing. And we made bows and arrows. And I tell you, we were walking back. And every person that we came across, my grandson would say we've just made our own toys, and it didn't cost us anything.   Terry  33:46 Oh, that's awesome.   Jan  33:47 Yeah, that was so that's bringing the true value of what it was when we were kids, you know, because we had to make our own entertainment. You know, that was it?   Roy Barker  33:56 Yeah. And, you know, just like us. You know, we even rode our bikes to and from school, or we walked, you know, there was usually a bunch of us, but you know, like my kids, they weren't allowed, you know, things that changed enough by then that they weren't allowed to just do that by themselves. Now, if I had a day off, and I could ride over there with him, then somebody would come pick, pick us up, you know, pick up the bikes, but, you know, the world has just changed so much that that.   So it's just not an option for a lot of kids, single parents, I have to work a lottery, families working a lot just to survive. And so and then, you know, we've got the digital screens to entertain them, you know, at that age, so I guess it could, I guess it really could be a big problem.   Jan  34:41 Mind you, when you talk about the 50s and the 60s, we had what we still have television, and they were worried about that, remember?   Terry  34:49 Yeah, yeah. Well, and we were there remote controls to we were an old time Yeah.   Roy Barker  34:58 Yeah. Yeah. So now we've made it That's how we got fit. So now we've made a screen that travels with the right. Price, right? Yes, yes. Well, um, so, I guess, one, let's talk about that instance for a minute is that, you know, so what do you suggest for somebody that is way, way out of shape? You know, maybe overweight? And maybe he hasn't been that active?   I mean, kind of how do you start them off, where you can, you know, not run them off, because you got, I guess that's a challenge that you have is that you have to set something up, to help them out where they're bettering themselves, but not overload them where they just give up?   Jan  35:42 Yeah, that's it. Again, it's all about starting small, you know, you'd say, I mean, again, it depends on how old the person is what how much weight they're carrying, because a lot of people might find walking three or four minutes is more than they can handle, you know. So basically, what you're saying is, you know, just get up out of your chair, just walk around the house, Tibet for as much as you can, that's the thing. It's all about getting moving.   That's it. Now, there'll be a lot of people who are more than fit enough to actually go and have a good half hour walk, you know, but they choose to sit on a couch all the day, you know, but it's the case of just let's just see how you can do it. Even if it's 10 minutes spurts, just get up and then once you start this as a habit, you are going to feel the benefits, and therefore you're going to keep wanting to do it. That's the thing.   Roy Barker  36:38 Yeah. So what was it?   Terry  36:40 I'm sorry, I was just gonna say, What do you have? Do you have something that you say to them, that makes them more confident that they can achieve their goals, their, their small habits, their larger habit? What would you do? Again, it   Jan  36:57 depends on who the person is. But, uh, you know, again, individual, that's the thing, you know, you know, so that's, you know, again, I don't have a cookie cutter answer for that, because I know, we don't deal with cookies.   Roy Barker  37:15 I shouldn't be dealing with them either. But every now and then I do.   Jan  37:20 Yeah, really, it is. It's really a case of motivating, encouraging, trying to persuade, if you like, you know, talking about you know, you will, it's probably sounds really hard, but you really give it a try. Let's see, you know, you really will feel the benefits, you   Terry  37:37 know, you'll be surprised at what you can achieve, you know, yeah, exactly. When things get out of their reach. And then they start doing   Jan  37:45 again, we're talking about the mindset because somebody is closes their mind off right away and says, No, I cannot do this. You know, you have to sort of say, You know what? I bet you I bet you could, you could?   Roy Barker  37:58 Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and they have to really believe that or, you know, it's like pushing an elephant up a set of stairs, if they don't, because they've got, you know, I'll speak for me, I have to buy into the process that this is good for me. And this is what I want before. I can take anybody else's advice or any direction from that. But one thing I was going to ask you is like, Why do people come to you?   Or what do you think, is the most reason that people tell you? Is it because I don't look good? In my dress clothes, or because my clothes are tight? Because I walked up the flight of stairs and had to stop and huff and puff before I could walk up the next slide. What do you see that most people tell you why they come to you?   Jan  38:44 Well, certainly, everybody who comes to me is because they're overweight in some, some shape or form. But do you know what it's the main thing is because they lack of energy, they don't have the energy to do anything. Yeah. And the thing is more junk food you eat, the more energy is sapped out of your system. And it's funny, a lot of people think that the more rubbish but just the more you eat, the more energy you'll have. totally opposite. totally opposite. And a lot of people think the more I move, the less energy I'll have. Again, it's a total reverse.   Roy Barker  39:22 Yeah, because there are days when, you know, I start dragging, and if we will get out and just go for a little 1015 minute walk. It just really seems to perk me up. I come back just a lot more energized and ready to sit down and get after it.   Jan  39:36 Yeah, it's a lot of things are it's totally counterintuitive. You know, you think the more physically active I am, the more exhausted I would become, can be off in the desert, you know, totally different. Or the more I the more energy I'm gonna have no opposite.   Roy Barker  39:52 Yeah, and we talked a lot about the balanced approach. And I used to have a sign hanging over my desk for a lot of years that I had. Of course, you know, eat rot. But sleep is huge. And sleep is something that I found is the biggest catalyst for me to go totally off the reservation that you got to get that sleep. Because when I wake up feeling a little bit like that, then it's like, you know, you do what you say you try to go eat for that quick pick me up, which, to me, it'll help me for about 1015, maybe even 30 minutes, but then you get that crash, you know, an hour or two later, you start losing it.   Whereas, you know, getting the sleep. And the other thing is water, I don't drink water, and then breathe in deep. I'm a shallow breather. So those are things that you know, we tried to do too, because getting that oxygen in is refreshing. And you know, I've had actually had people comment on that. If you're doing something well, yeah, I'll be like, one of them. The worst one was we were at a, we call those a painting paint, you know, they have the painting instructor at the front of the room. And yeah, painting and I'm sitting there painting.   And this lady walked by the instructor after she got us going, she walked by I said, It's okay, if you take a breath. And that, you know, obviously she could tell from wherever she was that I wasn't breathing. But if I do I find that, you know, not only the stress full, but concentration, if I'm really concentrating, you know, so you just need to make yourself stop. There's all these little things, I think that help us, we just have to   Jan  41:32 And this is interesting, because you're talking about increasing your amount of sleep, talking about breathing, these are things that cost us nothing. But we have to be more aware of what we're doing. And we have to be looking after ourselves. That's the thing. I mean, a lot of people they live very, very stressful lives. And of course, the thing is that the less sleep you have, the more stressed you're going to be. And you know, it's funny, because people will say, Well, I'm just going to fight on regardless, I'm just going to keep working, I'm going to keep working even though I'm really tired. But your productivity levels just absolutely love.   Terry  42:08 Oh, wait that way I was going back.   Roy Barker  42:11 I wish I could attend just doesn't work. Was that gonna turn Terry's headphones off right before you just had me we've just had this conversation over the last a few days a week or so like, Oh, my gosh,   Terry  42:26 repeat, repeat, repeat, rewind. But   Roy Barker  42:30 it's very important, you know, to try to wrap all these things together, they just because they're so interdependent. And, you know, we talk, we have another show the for kind of the aging and caregivers. And this is something that we talk about on there a lot is that self care, because you can't help anybody else, if you aren't at the top of your game.   And then it's like, it's like emergency responders, you know, the fire department, when when they go in to a dangerous situation like a drug lab or shooting, you know, they're always told, well, we need to make sure it's safe. Because if you go into a bad situation, now we've got to come find somebody to help save you. And it's kind of the same way in our health if we have to have we can't look after other people in our life, if we have to have somebody looking out after us.   Jan  43:19 Yeah, yeah, I think this is the thing that people as you know, we do tend to look after other people before we look after ourselves. And we really have to, you know, just sort of get a grip and say, No, you have to start looking after yourself. It's you that's responsible, you know, responsible for your own health. So and once you know that you're going to be healthy, then you can help other people.   Roy Barker  43:47 Yeah, kind of like the thing in the, the airplane to you know, put your mask on first before you start helping everybody else. And I think it's, it's very true in this in this health arena as well. You know, we have to, and we just want to live our best life and we can't live our best life if we're not feeling the best. And then, you know, one thing we've talked about before as well is that, you know, I'm get to this point, I worry about what am I gonna be like in 1020 years?   Because I think if you go into older age, not as healthy as you could be, you really set yourself up for some things to go bad. You know, yeah. And I don't think anybody wants to be, you know, a burden to your family or to your loved one that somebody has to take care of you so that I think that's really something that over the last two, three years that has really sparked me to take   Jan  44:44 this thing because it's not only life expectancy, it's healthy life expectancy. A lot of people are spending 20 sorry, a fifth of their lives being unhealthy, you know, they might live To be some in the 80s or whatever, but if you're talking about a fifth of your entire life just being unhealthy, yeah, that's not helping anybody. Yeah.   Terry  45:10 Yeah. No. And I think the ultimate goal? Well, I don't know, I think everybody's ultimate goal is to help each other I think, yeah. Especially family, for sure. But as a community, so we can all be successful and lift each other.   Roy Barker  45:24 Yeah, we started talking. And one of our things we talked about a little bit is not outliving your health. And that's unfortunate. So many times we do that, you know, it could be we have a good mind, but our body doesn't work. And you know, you think about that, what, what kind of a sentence is that? To have a mind that's well working, but you can't you don't have a body to get up and do things or, you know, vice versa. A lot of times now, the, you know, we well,   Jan  45:52 you know, I, it was a lady I'm speaking to and this was so sad the story because she had the, you know, been both The couple have both worked and all the rest of it. And they had this dream about when they retired, you know, they would go and buy a house in this. I don't know where it was, but they wanted to buy a house in this particular place. And they had enough money and they bought the house. Yeah. And of course, all they had all these plans, what they were going to do in their retirement. But in the meantime, they had actually put on so much weight. While they were working that yes, they managed to buy the house, but they could not do any of the things that they had planned to do now.   Terry  46:35 Yeah, that's, that's amazing. I mean, I would hate hate to be in that situation, but you just don't, you know, you got to think you have, like you said earlier, you have to be more self aware of what's going on. So   Roy Barker  46:50 you can address it. Yeah, and we challenge people to start earlier, because when you're in your 20s, and 30s, maybe even 40s, you don't think about it a lot, you know, you're you can, you can eat worse, and it not affect you as much. But then, you know, it's this compounding effect that we've talked a little bit about that, you know, all these bad habits start adding up. And then when you get to be a little bit older, it's hard to break these habits and make a switch.   And sometimes, already, you know, like the diabetes and things, sometimes we've already became ill or you have a disease that we can't turn around or you know, it has negatively affected us in some other way that we can't recover from that. So, you know, get started early think about these decisions, because they're going to live with you the rest of your life. Exactly. Yeah.   Terry  47:39 And tomorrow minute. I mean, tomorrow may never come Don't put it off. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Sound like a commercial.   Jan  47:47 Well, the thing is that so many things nowadays, you know, whether it's diabetes, or heart disease, or whatever, a lot of it is, it's within our control. Yeah, if we can look after ourselves, you know, it's not like COVID or something like that, which you really cannot control, you know. So it's really our own lifestyle that makes what the quality of our life the end of the day.   Roy Barker  48:11 Yeah, I think go to a doctor and get checked out. Because just like myself, I just happened to find out that I was diabetic, and I wasn't that bad off. able to catch it soon enough. But it was an accident. I didn't think you know, wasn't feeling sick. And, you know, we had another guest. It's been quite a while. JOHN, I can't think I can't Alaska Cove Alaska, he he had a really poor diet. And he actually passed out, you know, at work from a diabetic coma, I guess and was taken to the hospital. And so anyway, just   Terry  48:43 don't even know he I mean, he had no idea that he had diabetes.   Roy Barker  48:47 I think his blood sugar was what in the four or five hundreds and anyway, yeah, it was something that he was able to catch and turn around. And but again, if you go to the doctor, find this stuff out in free screenings, you know, we're going to talk about that. We went to a free screening with something, but there's all kinds of things that you can do to try to find out where you are. So you can get yourself on a better course, if necessary, you can get   Terry  49:14 hold of Jan and talk to her about figure it out. Yeah, she's very motivational. Yeah, I can get you going. Well, speaking   Roy Barker  49:23 of that, we're gonna wrap Jan, do you have anything else that you want to add before we get away?   Jan  49:29 No, I it's been a pleasure being on the program. It's been great. Well, thanks. I mean, I think really, I think people just have to remember that it's really our responsibility for our own health, you know, and, you know, it's just trying to think of what you're doing, be more aware of what you're doing, and think of what the future is going to be. Do you want to have a healthy future or not? Yeah, that's really it, you know, and really start looking at yourself.   Roy Barker  50:00 Yeah. Alright. Jan, well, thanks a lot. Do you have a Is there a habit or a tool, something that you use in your daily life that really adds a lot of value that you think,   Jan  50:13 okay, I mean, certainly I always start my day off in a positive note, alright. That's why they call me the positively pink personal trainer. So really, what you want to do is, and my advice is achieve something every single day, it doesn't matter what it is, you know, clearing out a desk or clearing out a kitchen drawer. It doesn't have to be anything big, or even just making a decision to say, you know what, I'm going to start looking after myself. And you're going to say to yourself, Well, let's think of the solutions on how I can do that. Yeah,   Roy Barker  50:51 I love that we need to be nice to ourselves, too. Because just thinking to be kind, because I'm the worst. If I've got 10 things on my to do list, if I get seven done, I'll drag around being upset about these three. So you know, if you get up and you make these accomplishments, even if they're small, celebrate them. It's something that you've done, and you need to be happy, and it's motivating. I think it'll motivate Oh, yeah. Next thing?   Terry  51:17 Yeah, like that.   Roy Barker  51:18 Yeah. All right, Jen. So tell everybody who do you like to work with? How can you help them? And of course, how can they reach out and get a hold of you?   Jan  51:25 Well, I really I specialize in older women over the age of 50. Certainly, because that's because I am somebody over 50 that I have a rapport with these people. So that's the people I tend to tend to work with. They are certainly people who are overweight. Yeah. And they need to get fitter. That's the important thing. Yeah.   So really, probably the best, the best way to get ahold of me is if you go to my website, Jan Malloch.com. And you can see what I've got to offer and whatnot. And then obviously, you can contact me via email, or go on to Google and look up Jan Malloch. And you'll find my Facebook, my LinkedIn, my Twitter, my all my different connections. So connect with them as they are.   Roy Barker  52:07 Yeah. Okay, awesome. And that the spelling of that last name is m a l l o c h. Yeah, and we will include all that in the show notes, but just in case you're having them road and pull over and want to jot that down. Get over now   Terry  52:24 Don't cry.   Roy Barker  52:26 All right, well, thanks so much. We appreciate our listeners as well. Again, this is gonna do it for another episode of Feeding Fatty Im Roy. of course you can find us at www.feedingfatty.com We're on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify for not only one that she listened to please reach out we'd love to get it added make it easier for you to listen to us every week.   Also, we're on all the major social media platforms probably hang out a little bit more on Instagram than others. And a video of this interview will go up on YouTube when it gets goes live. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health. Thank you Jan Malloch Website www.feedingfatty.com

Managing Stress Is Important To Achieving Emotional and Physical Wellness with Elizabeth Di Cristofano It was such a week such a hectic, exhausting week that, I think it is building into the day today. But, you know, we we have the control over it. It's how literally how we could talk now we talk to ourselves with switch that mindset of Yes, we're having a crappy morning, but you know, what we have the rest of the day. About Elizabeth As a Functional Medicine Certified Health Coach, Elizabeth sets out to inspire women, specifically women over 40, to take back their life and vitality by getting to the root cause of their overall health. Health and wellness has been in Elizabeth's world for the last decade and has evolved as soon as she turned 40. Elizabeth's career was mainly in the apparel corporate world, working for companies including a New York designer brand and a Fortune 500 company. A career that was not sustainable and in the midst of her starting her own health journey she experienced burnout. Taking on a mind/body approach, Elizabeth started incorporating optimal nutrition, meditation, journaling, daily workouts and movement and practicing setting boundaries all in which helps her thrive in everyday life.  But that was not always the case in her life. She battled an eating disorder when she was 15 which showed back up again recently and is just now in recovery. Elizabeth started building her own business in her forties and offers her services as a Health Coach to help high achieving and high performing entrepreneur female 40-60 years old who needs to operate at peak state in order to meet the high demands of corporate, family and social life – an area in which she is really familiar with. She is a host of an alternative health and wellness podcast called The Root Of Our Health, which ties in with her mission of changing behaviors by empowering entrepreneurial women in their 40's and beyond to know their self worth! Even her message at the end of every podcast episode is “You are worth it” Her motto she lives by is love, laughter and to live la dolce vita! Elizabeth Di Cristofano Website The Root of Our Health Podcast Listen to more great episodes of Feeding Fatty here www.elizabethdicristofano.com www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below   Managing Stress Is Important To Achieving Emotional and Physical Wellness with Elizabeth Di Cristofano Sat, 5/29 10:17AM • 46:16 SUMMARY KEYWORDS stress, thinking, elizabeth, people, happening, adrenal fatigue, podcast, adrenal, thyroid, day, throw, talking, hard, eating, functional medicine doctor, good, feel, test, amazon, deal SPEAKERS Terry, Elizabeth, Roy Barker   Roy Barker  00:05 Hello and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty This is Roy necessary. So we are the podcast of course we are journey chronicling our journey through this wellness through eating better exercise, getting more exercise, reducing stress, all those great things that we need to do in order to live a more, you know, happy fulfilled, healthier life. And so also too from time to time we have guest on and after the morning we've had we had to make emergency phone call to Elizabeth and I'm gonna let Terry in very introducer   Terry  00:41 Elizabeth DiCristofano know sets out to inspire women as a functional medicine as functional medicine certified health coach, specifically women over 40 to take back their life and vitality by getting to the root cause of their overall health. Health and Wellness has been an Elizabeth world for the last decade and has evolved as soon as she turned 40. Elizabeth started building her own business in her 40s and offers her services as a health coach to help high achieving and high performing entrepreneur, female's 40 to 60 years old. She's the host of an alternative and wellness podcast called the root of our health which ties in with our mission of changing behaviors by empowering entrepreneurial women. You are worth it is her motto, Elizabeth? Thank you. Oh my gosh, do we need you? We need you. Oh especially today, I was not good today.   Roy Barker  01:37 It was funny because I know you like to talk about stress. And then you know, before the show we were talking about I think we all had a rough week and then for some of us this morning has started off just where we left off yesterday was like Okay, let's deal with this stress. So we don't run the rest of our day and we don't run the rest of our our health and wellness.   Elizabeth  01:59 Yeah, yeah, no, and I you know, like you said, it started started out that way so minded too. I you know, it was such a week such a hectic, exhausting week that, you know, I think it is building into the day today. But, you know, we we have the control over it. It's how literally how we could talk now we talk to ourselves with switch that mindset of Yes, we're having a crappy morning, but you know, what we have the rest of the day. So how are we going to spend it? So yeah,   Roy Barker  02:34 yeah, you know, I'm, I'm gonna mute. I'm gonna I'm gonna mute Terry. So jump in here. But yeah, for the last, you know, 30 minutes or an hour, it's just been terrible. And, you know, I think that same thing, I think, I don't want this to ruin the rest of my day. I've got other stuff because you know, when it's just seems to just have piled on. And so what I want to do when it piles on like that, is of course, I just want to sit down and find something to eat is not, that is not the way to handle that. And so, you know, that's part of what we are, I'm gonna say me, that's part of what I'm working on, is trying to figure out, okay, you know, this has happened, I can't go back and change it, it's gonna mess up the trajectory of my day, and probably the weekend, so you know, how to deal with it. One thing I have found is that's interesting is sometimes when we go through these, it happens for a reason that we come out on the other end, and we're like, Okay, I'm better off than I probably would have been had things happen the whale, but as we're going through it, you know, that is just difficult. That's not an easy thing to think about.   Elizabeth  03:46 Yeah, no, and you're right, right. It's like, you know, going through it. You're, you're you're wondering, Well, what the hell is going on? You know, why? Why am I doing this? Why am I feeling this, and sometimes you just surrender to, to like the foods and surrender to things because you're so freakin tired. And you're so like, you're just you're just wanting to, you know, like, get get away from that pain, really. So that's what happens is when media stress, we're not thinking clearly, we're just surrendering to whatever is coming up in our lives. You know, and it's tough. It is tough. And now you your Outlook, though, of, you know, getting out on the other end, seeing seeing a different light of, you know, the reason why it happened. That's a good outlook. A lot of people don't even have that a lot of people have this, like, Oh, well, you know, it happened to me, it happened, you know, and it's just a loss. But understanding you know, things do happen in our lives, whether it's stressful or or great. That you know, sometimes you got to go through that pain to understand the good. Yeah,   Roy Barker  04:58 yeah, and it's the way You know, when you're in the moment, it's, it's hard,   Terry  05:03 hard to break. And yeah,   Roy Barker  05:04 you know, now once I kind of like came through, and it took a couple deep breaths, and that's something I've learned too is over the last month or two, you know, we've done the Riki wreck, whatever it is, whatever that word is, you know, we've done that we've tried to do more meditation, have some quiet time, even just for a few minutes to be more one. And so you know, realizing what's going on, taking four or five deep breaths to try to you know, rebalance and recenter is good. But you know what, I guess one thing that's frustrating for me, and it's my own fault, because I have so much that needs to be done. But it's like, okay, I really didn't have time to do stuff that I need to do today, tomorrow and the next day. So now, I'm going to take for things I should have been doing or needed to do today. And I'm going to push them out two days when didn't have enough so that some of that is self inflicted, I get that. But then on the other hand, it's like, it's just, it's things that need to be done. And it's not, you know, it's not like a choice, like, you know, I was gonna paint the fence today and say, Okay, well, I'm just not gonna do that. I mean, these are, to me, they're critical deadlines that just have to be met. And there's no, you know, the only way to do that, and then this is where I really go out of control, because then the next thing is the eating, then the next thing is staying up till two in the morning trying to get it done, and then you're tired. And then you want to eat, I want to eat more for fuel to wake me up. Anyway, that's a bad sign. Like,   Elizabeth  06:38 yeah, it is a vicious cycle. But let me ask you a question is this are these tasks, like, the hard tasks that you don't want to do? Are these you know, or these things that you find fun?   Roy Barker  06:53 Well, if, if things went right, it's fun. Okay, when things start to go bad, it's when they become not fun and become drudgery. And then, I have to admit, and then you wake up the next day, kind of, you know, all balled up, like, what's gonna, what's gonna happen today, and then it's like, do I even want to start down this path and like, get, you know, get hit in the head with somebody throwing rocks at you, when I could just not do anything. But that's not an option. I mean, it's stuff I'm got to do so. So both. So   Elizabeth  07:31 you know, and the reason why I asked him because that's, that's our, that's our default. When we have hard things, you know, we have a to do list, right. And we have these very hard thing door is that even hard, but it's like things that are, you know, if we have a creative mind, and these are just like, the processes and the things that we're not loving to do, um, we tend to kind of put them off, just because obviously, we don't love them. But what ends up happening, obviously, it's just like, goes and goes and goes, Okay, I'll do that tomorrow. I'll do that tomorrow. And then we procrastinate. And then until, like you said that last minute that you really, truly need to get it done, because it's a deadline, then you're stressed out, then you're like, eating, trying to stay up cuz it is a deadline, right? Before what I learned is that doing those hard things, or doing the things that don't like to do first, right, to get them out of the way? And yes, you know, sometimes, like you said, things could go wrong, and it has, especially if you're, you know, doing something that's technology bound, you know, it's like, something can't Yeah, right? Something can go haywire. And all of a sudden, that one hour that you you, you know, put on your calendar for that one task is now two or three hours. Yeah, that gets frustrating, right? Yeah.   Roy Barker  08:53 And that is the I think that's what kills me more than not wanting to do stuff because like I said, if, if I could just do it, and work through it, I'm really good with that. And I don't mind it. But what happens is, you know, just we can use today as an example. You know, we wake up, got woke up. About that's the worst. Yeah, this morning, I was thinking, Oh my gosh, we might get to sleep in a little bit. You know, we get a call from the Amazon delivery guy. And then, you know, while I'm up trying to sort this out, they just throw the package out at somebody else's house. So now spent, you know, 3045 minutes on the phone dealing with them, not going to get the thing and then of course, you know, we have some technical issues trying to even get this call up again, then it just you know, it's frustrating because I hate to waste our guests time and that's, that is my you know, I don't like to waste our time and we're tight schedule, but man when it bubbles over and affects somebody else out of my sphere, then you know that I hate that because, you know, I know that you Your time is by and your your very gracious, you haven't lost that. make that clear. You came home with a smile and did everything he needed to do, but I'm just saying it's just, uh, you know, and the good news is, I think we can we can say this now is that, you know, we were having some terrible internet issues for the last, I don't know, month, month and a half where, you know, we actually had a few episodes that we just had to quit taping mid conversation because the quality was terrible. So anyway, we finally got a new cable placed in the house and we got it turned up last week. But then again, it's been it's had consistent problems, you know, every day, when it works, it's awesome. But you know, when it does and then you know, at&t wants me to spend an hour or two on the phone with them trying to troubleshoot and so you know, that just it just, I guess it just starts compounding you know, with people. It's I it's not that they want my time frivolous frivolously it's just that they need my time, which is fine, but it's like I had zero time in my calendar today to mess with Amazon and to mess with 18th it was just weren't even on my radar. And now they have taken over my entire morning so far.   Elizabeth  11:20 Yeah. And that's, that's that's the thing, you see external. Relax with the better word crap that you noticed. It's like, you weren't expecting that. It's something that Okay, now you just woke me up out of the, you know, of something that I was trying to relax, right. So that external stress just came at you and of all things that didn't even turn out. Right. So if you've got the package, then I can see it being like, Okay, well, you know, it was it was for something, but it was nothing. Yeah. And then you still have to contact them to reorder I'm sure. And I mean, I've been there. And I think that's the The other thing we were talking about off off off camera was that, you know, I, again, I was I actually order two things. And those two things said attempted delivery. Well, no, I have to and I did already twice go back out to read deliver and they read delivered and still says   Roy Barker  12:24 attempted Oh my gosh.   Elizabeth  12:29 I'm stupid post office. But I I'm just saying you know, I get it. I get it. It's like those things to where you have a lot on your plate, you have your schedule full. And all of a sudden these outside stressors come to you. And it's like, I can't deal with you people. Yeah, you guys are just ruining my day ruining my world. And it's it's frustrating, but how are you? How are you dealing with it? Like, are you? Are you using your meditation at all for this? And   Terry  13:01 you? Well, different types of meditation   Roy Barker  13:07 was more using my Tourette's I think at the time. Yeah, well, you know, the reality is it was still bubbling over, like, you know, right when we were getting on this call. So that's part of the deal. I just haven't had time to deal with it. And you know, what I will say, at this point is like, you know, when you actually start verbalizing this, then you become like, Oh, my gosh, you mean I'm wasting my time even thinking about this, because, you know, it's like, it's kind of like the, it's like really is at the worst problem mean, there's people that are sick, there are people that are have financial issues. You know, they're people that are in accidents, or, you know, there's all kinds of Mayhem going on in the world, and you're frustrated about my Amazon package didn't get here,   Terry  13:53 and then you start thinking about the guilt. These other people are going through all this stuff. And then the guilt piles, I don't know if that's the mom thing, or that's the dad thing. I don't I don't know.   Roy Barker  14:04 It's just a thing, because I'm old enough to remember when you actually had to get in the car and go to the store to buy stuff. So now like, Okay, well, I was too lazy to get in the car to go buy this thing. So I ordered it for delivering and now I'm worried that I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna get it for 24 more hours. It's   Terry  14:24 so like, on demand. Yeah, and everything on demand. Right now drive thru service. Yeah.   Roy Barker  14:30 And, you know, again, when you're going through that you don't think about it but having a minute to take a break and really, you know, talk with y'all to is like, Oh my God, this sounds so corny, but I'm sure there are other people that are going through it as well.   Elizabeth  14:44 No, and you know, it's, it's the it's the times right. And that is why stress is like huge. It's a huge epidemic. Now it's because we want everything now. And no matter I'm I'm Gen X as well. So I know all about your the Hard times not the hard times the just the times where we actually had to have pick up a phone that's in your house and you didn't have a cell phone. You didn't have you didn't have these things deliver tea, you actually had to go out and especially I'm from, you know, Chicago, in the snow. You know, getting tracking in like Orpheus No, not really, I'm being dramatic, but, you know, just just picture that just picture like the kids and people nowadays try to do what we were doing back then. But it is I mean, but it switches your brain like that to it. See, it's the, like you said on demand, give me Now give me now I want it now. And when you don't have it, it's like, Ah, that's it. My life is over.   Roy Barker  15:45 Right. Exactly. Yeah.   Elizabeth  15:49 So there's one one thing I wanted to mention that to kind of keep going on this, but you mentioned that, you know, our problems aren't really, you know, big problems. You know, like, of the world of, you know, like, there's a lot of people suffering, there's a lot of people, and it goes through and through difficult things. I was just listening to a podcast, and it was one of these. Um, I don't know if you heard of Tim Ferriss, but podcast? Yeah, yeah.   Terry  16:17 I've been on a kick this week.   Elizabeth  16:19 Right. Okay, good. So I don't know if you've heard this one. But it was with a I don't know his name offhand. But basketball players, he's a big time basketball player. And he just mentioned that, you know, when you throw because, you know, we're all complainers, right? We all complain, complain. So when you throw your complaints on the table, and you have everybody else share their complaint, you quickly like, Oh, I'm gonna take this back. It's like that what you guys are going it's like, you know, 10 times worse or 100 times worse. And if we're not comparing, but it's understanding that you know, what, we've got a good we got we got a good, so it's more or less, like getting the energy out of what we're feeling. And they'd be like, Okay, I'm done, then, you know, then we can go on. But yeah, yeah,   Roy Barker  17:13 I think that's it sounds like a, I guess now I feel like I've thrown my tantrum. And I'm gonna try to, you know, pick up and move on. Yes, let's try to pick me up off the floor and say, Hey, quit throwing your gun along here. Hey, we all do it. You know, so I've read something that was really, it was really, to put things in perspective the other day, because it was a, I guess it was a lady that was just talking about, you know, how these seniors this year have had it so bad, and all of the stuff that's going on, and they miss their dances, and I get that in a senior, you know, when you're that age in that world? Yeah, it's a big thing. But then somebody replied to her is like, Well, I was telling my husband about this. And he said, Well, yeah, but you know, for those of us that graduated from 1964, to 1970, our senior trip was to Vietnam. And so I was like, wow, yeah. Yeah, you know,   Terry  18:17 yeah. Yeah. Just trying to find perspective is, and and when you're going through it, like, you don't really think about, think about sitting there and just being with the issue, and risk, you know, just just being with it. It's afterward when you're like, Oh, well, I just wasted all that time, then you think, Oh, my God, I just wasted all that time. So what, you know what now? Now, I'm mad that I wasted the time thinking about it. Well, there's a reason for that. Okay, what is it a loser? I'm gonna tell you.   Elizabeth  18:53 So what happens when we're stressed out like that is, it's called the amygdala hijack. So what happens is your amygdala is the one that processes all the information, you know, stress response, you know, stuff like that, like all of these, you know, basically, your smart brain, your smart area, right? And what happens is it just shuts down. So you don't think clearly, when when you have you know, when you're either angry or just stressed out or something like that. And then what happens is your cortisol levels go up, your adrenaline goes up. So when your brain shuts down in your journal goes up, that you're not thinking properly. You're not you're not you're just going through what you want to get achieved at that moment. Right. And, you know, it's like from a long time ago, this is what happens to fight flight or freeze, like, really the fight or flight is from the olden times of Paleolithic times where saber toothed Tiger runs after you What are you going to do? Either you're going to fight it or you're going to you're going to flee. You're going to run So that is where now the saber toothed Tiger is our stressors like that Amazon dies, your stressor. So you're, you're fighting it, you're you're putting all your energy in fighting this, this one stress. And so your amygdala is shut down, and you're not really thinking clearly until it just, you know, you rest that you are calming down after. And then you're like, oh, okay, I shouldn't, you know, I should have said this, I shouldn't have done this, you know, blah, blah, blah. So that's what's happening is, when you have that, that stress response versus that rest and digest, it's kind of like you're doing, you're going your action, and then you're actually thinking about afterwards. So,   Roy Barker  20:43 so what can help us slow our roll, though? Or is there anything that can, you know, help us from going from like, you know, zero to 60. And then spending that time going through that, and then trying to come back down? I mean, that because that's what I was thinking are very, is just, you know, if I could have just not launched on these numbers, like, like, multiple things is like, kept coming, kept coming. And, you know, it's like that, and then that doesn't help that escalates it, because then I'm thinking, not only my thinking about these issues to deal with and process and figure out, but then it's like, Okay, well, I have these other four things on my schedule this morning that I am not addressing at all. So that's the, I think, you know, for me, that's what I want to figure out is just like, recognizing that in the beginning, and maybe I should have done it, maybe I need to be more conscious of that emotion climbing and just say, Okay, I gotta step away, sit down and just do my little 10 minute, you know, meditation or breathing?   Elizabeth  21:47 Well, you said it right there. I mean, it's, it's not it's not easy. I, you know, I mean, we all go through it just because it's, it is it piles up, you get overwhelmed, and it's like, you know, I have this, this and you're thinking in the future, right? You're, you're thinking you're going through your present, you know, turmoil or stress, you're thinking of what's happening? What, how is this going to affect the future? And that's even causing more stress, right. So you just mentioned, you know, stepping out of it, and kind of getting into maybe, breathing, you know, breathing. So when we breed, we kind of, you know, slow it down. It's easier said than done. You know, people think, Oh, you know, I breathe every day. But when you get stressed out what happens? You don't, you Your, your breathing is shallow and or you don't read, so yeah, stop. And like, when you're talking to that guy, or when you know, or female or whomever, as they're talking, instead of thinking about it, kind of be mindful of how you're reacting to it. And then taking a deep breath while they're talking, whatever they have to say, and then kind of like, address the issue. So that's, you know, it's, again, it's being mindful of the situation before it takes control of you. Yeah, um, again, it's easier said than done. But you know, practice, we have to practice it, it's all   Terry  23:17 well enjoy you. You are really, I have to give you kudos, because you are really good at helping me recognize when that is happening to me. And it happens a lot, because I just, especially with technology, I am not I just do not have a technological brain at all. And I want it to work like it should. Like I think it should, yes, but but you I mean, you're you are always Okay. Take a deep breath, step back, let's evaluate the situation. You need to be kinder to yourself, and maybe offer yourself a little grace in that process.   Roy Barker  23:57 Yeah, it's it's hard. And I but I think it's like, it's like the, it's like eating or, you know, it's like, I think we talked before about you know, that one time that I just kind of, I was working and then hates I woke up because I was awake. But it's like, the realization came up that well, I'm standing here at the cabinet with my hand in these, this was, luckily was chickpeas, it wasn't chips, but I'm standing here with my hand in a bag of something, do I really need that. And so I think that mindfulness or being in tune with yourself translates into these situations is you kind of have to feel yourself in that escalation and try to, the sooner we can get to it, the better off we are, to mitigate it instead of you know, letting it get to the point where I was while ago just totally out of control. Because then it's a lot harder to it's a lot harder to make that turn and then the other thing I was gonna say is that you know, I've got some good advice, one time from From my priests, then he just, we were talking about the mindset and stuff. And he just said, Look, it's our choice. What we, you know, our mind is a grinder, and it's our choice of what we grind. And that's a, it's a good analogy. So what I'm trying to think of now is like, instead of grinding on this Amazon and 18 t thing all day, you know, I've got to somehow get past that. And think about all the other great stuff that's going on, you know, the other opportunities, focus on the good stuff.   Elizabeth  25:31 Yeah, no, that's exactly it is you hit it on the head, because it's, it's how you how you think, you know, determines how you feel, and you've determined your actions, right? So as you keep thinking, the negative, you know, and being angry, and all of that, that's gonna, it's gonna go throughout your day, and it's gonna also whatever you touch or whatever, you know, things happen. They're going to be negatively there. So so you know what I'm saying? Like, say, for example, you're, you're still going right? You're still you know, kind of, you know, on that that stressed moment, and then after this call, you're still stressed? Well, what do you think is going to happen, these are going to stay stressful for you, because you're, that's your, that's what you're thinking what you think you attract. So you're going to attract, stressing, you know, situations, and you're just gonna be like, Oh, my God, this day just sucks. That's it. But ya know, your, your previous was right on and having, it's kind of like pulling, pulling yourself outside of that situation, you're kind of looking in a different perspective. And like, kind of overhead and seeing, like, kind of an out of body experience. I've seen what you're, you know, how you are, how you're clenched up, how you're physically, how you're speaking how you're mentally? And then it's kind of like, Okay, well, I don't have to be this way. And doing like you said, that choice. So yeah,   Roy Barker  27:05 yeah, then the other thought is about the wasted time. And this is what I'm gonna try to think of next time. It's like, I can waste this hour or so, you know, being upset. And then, you know, kind of have one of these revelation moments where it's like, well, in the scheme of life, it's really not that big a deal. And we can't change it. So there's no use worrying about it, it's done. Let's move forward. Trying to think that earlier in the event, because then it's like, we don't have to waste. You know, there's no use wasting that time being upset, but I can feel it. Like, it just starts in your stomach. And so many people say everything, you know, most 80% of our stuff starts in a slump, like I feel it starting there. And it just like rushed up, you know, through my chest and into my head. You could just feel the pressure. You know, it's just like a pressure cooker of boiling water, I guess. Yeah. Physically. Yeah. You know, 10 stuff. Yeah. So then you have to think about, you know, having to think about how to fix Terry because she said, No, we're, you know, six feet. So I know that she was like, Oh, my God, do I need to do I need to run inflammatory? You know, what am I gonna do here? But then also those poor people on the other lady on the on the Amazon, I was pretty nice to her. I'm like, you were very nice. I told her. I said, Tell your drive to get it. Right. And that way, you don't have to talk to crazy people. Like   Elizabeth  28:29 that's a good thing, knowing that that, you know, she couldn't really it's not her fault.   Roy Barker  28:34 Yeah. And that's the unfortunate part is, you know, most of the time, we tend to take it out on people that are closest to us, or that really can affect I mean, you know, they just they can't so yeah, anyway, trying to recognize that earlier, so just don't have to go through all this because I can only imagine like, what does that do to our insides? Yeah, you you've been doing good said segue. You've been? You've mentioned adrenal adrenal glands. You just did a four part series on your podcast.   Elizabeth  29:08 Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it does. Physically, you know, in your body. It does a lot to you. So the reason why I bring up adrenal, adrenal is and and actually more specifically Adrenal Fatigue is because that is what I actually went through. Two years ago, I mean, I am a high stress person, I'm, it is what it is, I'm, you know, type a, you know, control freak, all of that. So, I'm a high stress person. So what I'm teaching, usually I need to learn, right? That's what you tend to do. You tend to teach what you really need to learn yourself and going through the process going through, you know, all of these things. So, so yeah, two years ago, um, you know, I was going, I don't know what I basically I put a lot of stress on myself. So one thing is is, you know, there was Outside stressors I was just doing, I was trying to get a business going. And I was putting a lot of stress on myself. And it was at the same time when, you know, I was like, I was 41. And I'm and I just started getting bloated and getting irritable, crying all the time. I'm yelling, like yelling at my husband, and just just overall, like, my face was puffy. Um, I was feeling exhausted after my workouts. So I was like, okay, something is going on. And I and I felt that at my age, I was a little too young to have perimenopause. So then I was like, Alright, I heard about this thyroid thing. Let me you know, let me go to a doctor and check it out. Now, I don't know if I spoke about this before. But, um, I didn't want to go to an allopathic Doctor Doctor, like a regular, you know, conventional doctor, just because, from what I heard, they don't do a thorough fiber test. Like, you know, you if you're the baseline, you're okay, you're, you're there's nothing wrong with you. But I know I knew better. So I went to the functional medicine doctor and got the thorough thyroid panel done. And he basically said, You have adrenal fatigue. And, you know, the symptoms that, you know, showed up and showed up in my life, like, for the longest time was low blood sugar. So I would think I would, you know, get dizzy after, you know, standing up and doctors took, you know, the test, and they're like, you have low, low blood sugar, nothing   Terry  31:31 like, Okay,   Elizabeth  31:32 and then low blood pressure. So all of that is low. So what ends up happening is when you're stressing out your body, and my, my doctor told me this, but you have these reserves, your adrenals basically sit there small glands that sit on your kidneys, right, and they're on the upper and upper abdomen. And what happens is, when you're when you get that stress your thyroid, you get low thyroid, and then what happens is you're you're stressing out your adrenals. And then you're, it's just basically depleting your adrenal and your adrenals are there to kind of keep you like energy and all of that stuff. So I was depleting everything. And not only was it because of the stress was because I thought, you know, doing the hard workouts, high intensity was, you know, was good. It was supposed to relieve your stress, right? If you do hard and high intensity workouts, while you're going through this, it's actually stressing your body even more, and that's why I was exhausted. So that is why when you get stressed out chronic stress Now I'm not saying you know, like the acute stress is that you can, you know, have ever known them. But if you have chronic stress day in and day out. And this has to do not only physically what you're doing to your body, but mentally what you're telling yourself, and that's why we were talking, what you say to yourself is, you know what ends up happening as far as actions go. So it really depleted in my body into where I literally had to get off of caffeine, and I'm still on caffeine. And I, you know, had to change my diet. I was, you know, I was on this other diet that it was so stupid. I was on that carnivore diet. It was stupid. It was like one of the things that I said, you know, somebody on Instagram was a lady. Oh, yeah, you know, I cured my bloating this or something like that, my IBS. And I'm like, Oh, well, I'm bloated. Maybe I could try that. It was stupid. Anyway, so um, the reason why I say that is because I was the nutrients you know, that I needed in my body that I actually wasn't digesting, either. So your digestion is, when you're stressed, obviously is not going to be on point because you're eating quickly. You're not you know, being mindful of what you're eating. So I was always eating in front of a, you know, computer, it's stressed out because my job was stressful, yada yada, yada. So your digestion is is not as poor. And so then I had to get you know, digestive enzymes and you know, all of this stuff. And finally, I was like, I was like, I was great afterwards. So what um, yeah, so what ends up happening is your stress levels can affect and does affect its product stress and don't get it, you know, checked out and astruc excuse me distract your hormones. So your thyroid and your adrenals all of those. It definitely takes a toll on them.   Terry  34:33 So were you so were you diagnosed with hypothyroidism? it?   34:39 Oh,   Terry  34:39 I you know,   Elizabeth  34:41 I wasn't per se but it does go hand in hand because your thyroid and your adrenals are like brother and sister glands. So if you have hypothyroidism you for sure have adrenal fatigue or and then even worse adrenal, so there's adrenal fatigue and adrenal insufficiency and So again, if you don't get that adrenal fatigue checked out, chronic adrenal fatigue can lead to adrenal insufficiency, which I don't know if you guys have heard or maybe research, there's a thing called Addison's disease. And that is where, again, if it's a, you know, chronic it can get to that point to where you're just   Terry  35:19 laying on the floor, you know,   Elizabeth  35:21 you have nothing. I mean, you have nothing in you know, so yeah, there. I'm kind   Terry  35:27 of there. And I have taken levothyroxine for probably 20 years. I mean, I, I quit taking it for about a year and a half, two years. I mean, I just took quit taking all of my medication, and then I lost a bunch of weight. And I don't know how big Well, I do. I did I wasn't eating junk, as much. Anyway, I was eating some but yeah. And then, and then I started taking it again. And I don't know, I am just exhausted all the time. I don't feel well, physically, I just feel I it's just, we're just at where and we're at work, we're kind of going through a hard time, you know, stay in on our diet. We tried, we tried to start eating plant based and trying to get back into that mode. It's like, you know, we had one bad day and then led to another one and another one. It's like, Oh, forget it thrown in the towel. I mean, what we can get back on it. But I am, I am definitely tired. I'm thinking I may need to go do the,   Elizabeth  36:34 you do need to you do that test. I I recommend for anybody really, um, even at checkout kind of thing, because you don't know. And I, you know, I never knew that I was I had no vitamin D in me none. So it was, you know, obviously digestion and everything. So yeah, get that thyroid, you know, test into the full thyroid test? because that'll go through, I forgot what, you know, I'm not a practitioner. So I don't know exactly. You know, the difference of what they leave out, all I know is that there are certain things that kind of go deeper into your thyroid, and you know, checks a little bit. It, you know, more in the full thyroid panel.   Terry  37:23 I'm gonna have to do that. That's, um, that's, um, that's on my list. I'm putting it at top.   Elizabeth  37:28 Yes, do that. And just, you know, if you can't see a functional medicine doctor, that's fine. You can actually do it at home. But you know, there are I don't know, you know, offhand the best. You know, companies out there that do this, I know that there are some that are safe, that are very thorough. And I think, um, once you get that done, you definitely have to have it kind of, you know, go through with, like a practitioner or somebody even, you know, I can I do it too. As a health coach. I'm kind of, you know, walkthrough of what each, what each thing means. Okay, yeah,   Terry  38:12 okay. Well, I'm doing it. I'm doing it. Don't laugh. What are you laughing? No, that's good. You need to do yeah.   Elizabeth  38:21 And that's a good baseline, you know, it's understanding what is off. I mean, you can be, you know, either estrogen dominant and you don't know that you could, you know, again, have all these vitamins that you think that you're getting, because you're plant based and you're not, your digestion couldn't be off. So a lot of things that, you know, we think that we take for granted. We don't know, I think this This test will definitely open your eyes and tell you.   Roy Barker  38:50 Okay, awesome. All right. Well, good. Well, I know we've run way over Elizabeth, so much. Yeah, no, I was gonna say, we, that's why we have had you back on again, because I think we ran we bumped up against some time last time. A couple things before we let you go. We we didn't really get to get the particular. So Terry, Terry told me that you had somebody on a special guest on one of your recent shows that we may know from a commercial that's out there.   Elizabeth  39:25 Yeah. So next, actually, it's next Thursday. It's going to be released. So DC line, sir. So he is the second half of the duo group tag team. I don't know if you guys know back in the 90s. You know, weren't there it is. Yeah. Well, there. He's back and they're back for that Geico. Commercial scoop. There it is. Yeah, yeah.   Terry  39:47 Yeah, I mean, every time   Elizabeth  39:50 Yeah, that commercial gets you it's in a got you got me and so he's doing his rounds only because, you know, he has a great day. Like, thinking he's very inspirational. Okay, cool. Very. I mean, I couldn't stop listening, then he basically talked throughout the whole thing, because it was very inspirational. You know, like, kind of, like a do it attitude, you know, like, you can go through doing your selling, you can go through any adversity and get out the other side. So it's very inspirational. And you know, obviously what he's him and his partners doing. Yeah. So thank you for bringing that up. So June 3, which is Thursday, it will be released.   Terry  40:40 Yeah, we can either. Oh, my gosh, I'm ready. Yes, yes. Then you are also,   Roy Barker  40:46 I think this has been a little bit back in time. But you talk with one of our friends as well. Dr. Carol?   Terry  40:51 activecare. Yes. Very.   Elizabeth  40:53 Yes. She was a delight. I love talking with her cheated her knowledge. And we actually, you know, kind of had a great conversation, obviously, because we were under the same functional medicine paradigm. Right. So it was, like I said, I can talk about this all day. And so yeah, it was a great conversation. I think that's going to be released. A few weeks? I don't know off the top my head right now. But it is going to be released in June, though. Okay.   Terry  41:22 Well, yeah, that's an inspiration just to hear about her combat and you know, being diagnosed with a brain tumor. Yes, having to relearn everything being in a wheelchair. And she said, she aged before her time, you know, when she was 15, she found out what it was like to be at, you know,   Elizabeth  41:39 yeah, yeah. And again, that's the, that's the adversity that we have to think about when we, when we do go through our own stuff. And it's not to say that our own stuff isn't, you know, that we shouldn't care about it. But I think, you know, understanding the adversity and the, you know, that people go through, and how resilient we all are. And we can you know, and it's just how you think about things.   Terry  42:08 So yeah, yeah, sharing and, and just being able to be inspired by other people's stories and knowing that you're not alone in this. Right. That's a big thing.   Roy Barker  42:19 Yeah. All right. Well, before we get out of here, tell us also, what is a habit or tool, something that you've been using here lately, that really helped add value to your life professional or personal either one,   Elizabeth  42:35 sitting on this bouncy ball? Oh, does it help with your posture? It houses my posture? Yes. I it's not one of those because I know they have one of those to where it has seating, you know, but this is an actual one that you can exercise. And I had it a long time ago. And I'm, you know, creating this office space and everything. And I gave my husband the the chair that I actually ordered for myself. I'm like, let me see if I can use this. And it's been I love it. I just, you know, I don't like when I do my work. I've had my music on and I'm dancing around and you're just you're moving? Yeah. So that's, that's something that's actually helped me kind of get through the day too.   Roy Barker  43:16 Yeah, because I use I actually did that it's been years ago, but it actually helps your core and your balance. But I will say if you're not careful, you will get bucked off every now and then like this, I go like this, and I roll up. Oh, that's not good.   Terry  43:34 Maybe we can get Is there a frame that you can put underneath that so it won't slip out? from under? Yeah, maybe, um,   Elizabeth  43:41 if you do, then you don't grow. It's like it stays put then then you get to enroll. So you just have to be careful. That's all.   Roy Barker  43:49 Alright. Well, Elizabeth, until everybody of course, how can they reach out to you? And then, you know, who do you like to work with? What can you do for them how they can reach out but also tell us about the podcast how they can find the podcast.   Elizabeth  44:03 Okay, well, the podcast is the root of our health. And, you know, the audience really is women over 40. But I do have topics that anybody can listen to men, women, you know, any age, but there are some topics that you know, menopause that we speak about a lot, and just in general for women over 40. So it's an alternative health and wellness because that's, you know, who I who I am and what I love to do. So that's the podcast and they can get that, you know, Spotify, iTunes, Stitcher, I believe it's on. So yeah, and my website so you can also get my podcasts on my website, which is Elizabeth DiCristofano.com. And so that's my website and my Instagram is Elizabeth.DiCristofano . No, you know, that's the handout. The other place I live on is LinkedIn. So if you can find me my first and last name, pull me up.   Roy Barker  45:05 Okay. Yeah, we'll be sure to include all that. Sure. The spelling in the show notes form as well. Yeah. All right. Well, as usual, I'm going to thank both of you ladies for bringing me back here. I feel much better. Do you feel relieved? Yeah. Dawn, we can reboot this day and get on with it. Have a good day.   Elizabeth  45:26 Good day. Good weekend. Long, guys. Yeah, yeah, Mom. Yes. Memorial weekend. holiday. Yes, yes.   Roy Barker  45:34 All right. Well, yeah, y'all have a good weekend. There where you're at as well. And we appreciate you being back on so   Terry  45:42 thank you, Elizabeth. As always, it's a pleasure.   Roy Barker  45:46 So that's gonna do it for another episode of feeding fatty Of course, you can find us at www.feedingfatty.com. We are also on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google Spotify, we are also a video of this interview will go up on YouTube as well and you can find us on all the major social media platforms. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health. Bye. Elizabeth Di Cristofano Website The Root of Our Health Podcast www.elizabethdicristofano.com www.feedingfatty.com

The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting with Cheryl McColgan Is low carb and Keto really sustainable? Cheryl has been doing low carb for the last five years and Keto for four with great results. She lost some weight, along with improvement in long-term anxiety, depression, sleeping, and brain fog. Cheryl also talked about the benefits of intermittent fasting. Giving our bodies time to heal and decreasing inflammation. About Cheryl: Cheryl is the founder and editor of Heal Nourish Grow, an ultimate wellness, healthy lifestyle and advanced nutrition site. She helps others develop the confidence and habits to create lasting change and greater health by sharing her wealth of knowledge and over 25 years of experience in psychology, addictions studies, fitness, nutrition, yoga, health and wellness. Coaching others to reach their personal version of ultimate wellness is her passion. Cheryl came to low carb and keto in 2016 after a particularly difficult time in her life in which she was gaining weight, not sleeping well and overly stressed, despite lots of healthy behaviors. Once she began low carb, there was a huge shift in her health and outlook. Not only did she lose the weight she gained, but long term anxiety, depression, sleep and brain fog greatly improved. At nearly 48 she’s feeling better than ever and uses her experience and research into keto to educate and coach others to greater health and wellness. She posts keto food ideas daily on her Instagram stories and recipes, research and wellness content at HealNourishGrow.com. www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below  Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (00:01): Hello, and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty. I'm your host, Roy Terry. So where the podcast, you know, we're journaling our, we are kind of chronicling my journey through the health and wellness, trying to become, uh, more, more healthy and have more wellness through, uh, nutrition, physical fitness, uh, mindset, just, uh, you know, kind of well-rounded well-balanced is we're not necessarily, uh, you know, doing anything that's off the charts. And from time to time, we also bring guests that are professionals in this field. And today we're a fortunate, fortunate enough to have Cheryl McCall going with us. She is the founder and editor of heal, nourish grow, and ultimate wellness, healthy lifestyle, and advanced nutrition site. She helps others develop the confidence and habits to create lasting change and greater health by sharing her wealth of knowledge and over 25 years experience in psychology, addictions, addiction, studies, fitness, nutrition, yoga, health, and wellness. Cheryl, thanks so much for taking time out of your day to be with us. We certainly appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks so much. You bet. If you wouldn't mind, tell us a little bit about your journey. I know that, uh, you know, we've talked a little bit about in 2006, you kind of came to the low carb and keto after, um, you know, some particular, a particular time in your life. So if you could just give us a little background on that, that would be great. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (01:35): Yeah. I think it's actually 2016 or something like that, but we can, Oh yeah, no worries. We'll give you the timeframe, just cause some people like to know how long you've been doing this because you know, a lot of things you hear in the media is media is like is low carb and keto, is it really sustainable? Well, I've been, you know, low carb for five years at this point in keto for four. So I would venture to say it's pretty darn sustainable. Um, but how I got into it from a health perspective is, um, I had, you know, like everybody getting a little older was working a really stressful job and was starting to put on some weight. And I was not super happy about that because my whole life I've been focused on health and wellness. Right. And I wasn't really eating anything substantially different or doing anything, but I wasn't sleeping well. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (02:20): And I had a lot of stress in PS for people out there, weight loss as a goal, getting stressed and sleep under control is a bigger component of that than anybody likes to talk about or wants to think about, but it is don't we know. Um, so anyway, once I started kind of digging around and I'd done it all at this point, so I'm going to be 48 here shortly. And I grew up in the nineties where it was a low fat craze still and you know, all through my teenage years. And I don't think I ever like touched butter for years and years and years because I was so, you know, low fat and then I was vegetarian for seven years. So every time I would come across a paradigm where I thought it was, you know, the healthiest thing, right. Uh, I would, I would do that and I'm pretty committed. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (03:05): So I built for awhile, but, uh, I think one of the benefits is I'm also very science-minded and open to learning about new things. And so whenever I'm faced with new information, new studies, new research, that kind of goes against what I might've previously been doing. Aren't willing to take that on. And so when I started reading about keto and low carb and, um, you know, when I first started there, wasn't nearly as many resources and things as there are now. Um, but I've read enough that it, it convinced me that, yeah, this is what I need to doing. This makes a lot of sense if I think about it in, you know, how we eat or how we should eat from an evolutionary perspective, um, you know, it made perfect sense. And so I kind of just jumped right in and really, really quickly started feeling a lot better. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (03:53): I lost the weight that I had put on. Um, had a lot of really amazing brain benefits. I actually think that's one of the biggest reasons that people should, um, you know, be watching their carb and sugar intake is because the effects long-term effects it can have on your brain. Um, so yeah, so I don't know if that answers your question. That's how I got into it. And I've taught yoga for over 10 years and was a runner and all this crazy stuff. So all this health and wellness stuff has just been a part of my life for really, you know, my whole adult life now. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (04:22): And you have a, um, a health issue as well. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (04:26): I did. So I actually make it as short as possible. I had had a fibroid tumors and by the way, if I knew what I knew now, I probably would've changed my diet then, because those kinds of gross and things in your body can really be fueled by glucose and sugar. But I had a ton of proprietaries, a lot of pain ended up having a partial hysterectomy. Um, and then a few years later it started having some more problems and long story short of how they did the surgery. It, it, the fibroids ended up in planting all over my abdomen. So then I, they thought I had cancer for a while. I to live for two months thinking I had cancer before I went to the Mayo clinic and they took them all out. Thankfully, no cancer. It really was a huge wake up call. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (05:09): Uh, like I said, I, you know, I'd been involved in all these health and wellness practices for years and years for up to that point. Um, but then to still realize like, Hey, I, you know, I'm doing all these healthy things, but I still have this major problem. What else is there? And that's kind of when I started going off the deep end with the research and sort of the, um, you know, biohacking type of things, these kind of more advanced methods, um, to work on, you know, getting your health back in particular metabolic health. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (05:41): Yeah. And that's, you know, a good point that you bring up is, uh, so much has come to light here about the inflammation and how it's, uh, you know, I, I may be over-exaggerating this, but it seems that inflammation team tends to be a catalyst for so many things for it to go wrong with us. And I think that the, if I'm not mistaken, the carbs and the sugar, they actually can fuel that inflammation even more. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (06:08): Absolutely couldn't agree more. I mean, the more and more I read it and research and listened to other doctors that work in these fields and talk about it. Um, the inflammation is the root over in, I mean, inflammation in and of itself is not a negative cause it's your body's response to a pain process or a, for something insult right. And it's actually needed for healing. But the problem is we're more state of information all the time. Right. And carp Kroger certainly do that a lot as do you, um, polyunsaturated that's, they're finding a lot of these vegetable things like soy and corn oils are very, very inflammatory and people as well. So there's this whole other side that you can go to neon just, um, you know, restricting carbs and sugar is, you know, these other ingredients that are also kind of harmful to us and also environmental factors, different chemicals. I mean, there's just so much it can be overwhelming sometimes. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (07:01): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you know, the other thing about carbs is, um, the addiction factor. You know, we talked a little bit about this when we had a conversation the other day, and it's, it's important that people realize that my opinion, again, carbs are basically like, uh, smoking alcohol crack, crack crack, you know, it's, it's, it's an addiction and we don't realize, I don't think we give ourselves enough of a break to say, we've got to, um, it's gonna take some time to move away from eating this heavy carb. And you, you're probably in a better position to explain that, um, also the carbs and the sugars they release, I guess the, the good endorphins. So you go back to your sleep, you know what you said? And, um, we, we seek that for energy, but we also seek it when we need to have a little bit of a emotional lift, I guess. Yeah, Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (08:05): Yeah, absolutely. Because when you eat sugar sweets and particularly the food industry has at this point designed food that is perfectly the amount of salt, sugar fat in it, that lights up your brain. And so it is addictive in a very, very real way. Uh, you know, you eat some sugar, you get a dopamine release in your brain. Dopamine is happy. Uh neuro-transmitter right. So it's, uh, there's every reason to believe that it's truly addictive, not only in a physiological way, but also just, uh, uh, habit and emotional way is like, it's what we tend to reach for when we're celebrating or when we're sad or when we're, everything is really around food, you know, greens and everything. So, and that's the sad thing about it in comparison to other addictions is for example, you don't need alcohol to live, right? In fact, most of us will be better off without it, even though I love it red, line's good. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (09:04): The beauty of those kinds of addictions, like cocaine or alcohol or whatever it is, you don't need those to live. You can go cold Turkey, you can leave those behind and your body functions even a thousand times better without it. But that's not the case with food. You still have to eat something. Um, so you can't, you can't go cold Turkey. You can't just stop eating. I mean, although we are going to talk about fasting today kind of later, but, um, you know, that's the challenge with the food addiction is that you do actually have to still eat. And that is one thing that really low carb or keto helps with is that it puts your hormones, ghrelin and leptin or your hunger hormones. Right. So Raelin, I always like to think of it as, you know, the little gremlins that from the movie back in the eighties, like crazy after dark, if you feed them. So that's your hug. And that's how I remember that one. And then leptin is more the satiety hormone. So what happens as you do keto over time is that these hormones balance out a lot more. And so it becomes easier for people to avoid the carbs and sugar because they're not hormonally being signaled to constantly eat that food again. So I think that in that regard, it's really a great way of eating for people to have a true food addiction. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (10:17): Yeah. And the other thing, uh, what I've noticed is, um, you can actually have a carb or I guess maybe people react different, but I've actually felt like I've had carb hangovers before where, you know, you get up in the morning and, um, well you just, your head feels stopped up. You just feel cloudy and, you know, you can trace that back to some, you know, around here going out and eating, uh, you know, Mexican food with chips and very carb heavy. And, you know, I noticed the cleaner I eat, I wake up in the mornings, much clear headed and just not congested in all stopped up and probably some food allergies in there as well. Not saying it's all that, but I, I guess I feel like I've kind of linked that back to, you know, if I eat a heavy carbs the previous day, I can expect that next morning that it'll take me a couple of hours to get out from under it. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (11:12): Yup. I definitely heard the same thing from other people. And I think it, you know, everybody is a little bit bio-individual and so somebody, maybe if you eat a whole food carb, like sweet potatoes, for example, might have a different effect than some of the more processed things. But, you know, that's just something people kind of learn over time what really works. Yeah. But in general, I would say would be better with anything that's whole foods, even if it's more carby that, that tends to agree with people's systems a little better. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (11:42): Yeah. And I was talking about the totally bad carbs in, uh, you know, fried, fried, fried phase. Is that, yeah, it's like a carbon, a good sweet potato. Uh, uh, probably not as much, Oh, Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (11:56): Ever feed hard to, uh, you know, really gain weight or, or have a whole lot of trouble. You're really, truly only eating whole foods. So I think, you know, for a lot of people that think that they can never, you know, give up, totally give up carbs. It's like, well, you know, we're not saying do this forever. We're saying, you know, depending on what your goals are and where your health status is, I think you shared with me when we had our pre-call that you had diabetes. So obviously you have some different things, different goals there, then maybe some other people that are, you know, safe, your only need to lose weight and you're not diabetic, you know, you might be able to enjoy carbs a little bit more. I think it's always like, what are your goals is what I always go back to. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (12:35): Yeah. And I just, you know, I have to be careful with the carbs because they do, you know, I can check your blood sugar enough, you see that they, especially the bad ones. And that's what I'm talking about is just eating really poor, poor choices, junk. You know, I can see that it just drives me up where, you know, you can eat more of the better carbs or the other thing too. I think if you, um, if you mix it with a fiber, I don't know, there's all kinds of combinations that you can do to make it a little better, but trying to get out and take a walk. That's another thing that I've done is, uh, you know, after a meal, just trying to get out short 10 minute walk or something to kind of walk that down helps a lot as well. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (13:18): No, there's definitely this idea of, you know, glucose disposal. And so, uh, walking or exercise after eating a higher carb meal is a great example of that because it drives your blood sugar down more quickly. Uh, there's also a supplement that I'd like to mention for people that might not be familiar with it called berberine. Um, there's been some studies on that and that is actually almost as effective as Warman in controlling glucose, after party meals. So if you're a person we're saying love Mexican food, and you know, you're going to have some chips that night and maybe some of the beans or whatever, then it might be a good idea to take some berberine with that meal so that it mitigates some of the impact of the carbs. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (14:00): Okay, cool. I'll write that down. Yeah. All right. So, um, Terry - Feeding Fatty (14:04): So you mentioned fasting, sorry. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (14:06): No, no. That's where I, that's where I was actually going to go there. Yeah. Terry - Feeding Fatty (14:08): Okay. So you mentioned fasting. What are the benefits of fasting? I mean, there are so many different time. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (14:16): I think he might still be muted. I can't hear you. Can you hear me now? Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (14:20): No. Um, it's look like we've lost. Can you hear me? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (14:26): I can hear you now. And now they're curious. Oh, Whoa. Terry - Feeding Fatty (14:30): I don't like not being all excited. I was like, I was like, fascinating, fascinating. So can we talk about the benefits of fasting and then there's so many different times, you know, you know, from four hours to 12 to 16, and then you said 60 other day and my eyes Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (14:52): Almost popped out of my head. Um, so can we talk about that? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (14:57): Absolutely. And this is one of the things I am most passionate about for a variety of reasons that we'll probably get to at some point, but I really feel like it's one of the most powerful health tools that we have outside of your diet. So if you have somebody that's really resistant to ever, you know, going low carb or really changing their diet, if they can just incorporate fasting, it has got a huge impact. And, um, the thing is it's, it's, it's slightly more challenging when you aren't eating low carb to fast because you haven't even got that blood sugar. So you're going to have those spikes and you're still going to be getting all these hormonal signals to eat, which makes it, it just makes it more challenging. Uh, once you become low carbon, you've done it for a long time. Your body becomes what we call fat adapted, which means it's very trained and all of your medic metabolic processes have upregulated in order to be able to use fat for fuel. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (15:46): And so if you don't eat, that's fine because your body has, you know, even the thinnest among us has a ton of body fat that you could live off of for days if you needed. Um, so I think it's still doable. I've had plenty of people do extended fast that are not keto or not low carb, and it's just, they can do it. It's just more challenging. So before we get into the different types, like you said, though, I kind of just want to like touch on this idea of why fasting is so powerful and also why local Speaker 4 (16:21): Amazon's here. Amazon's here, Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (16:34): Come here, come here, honey. At the door. It was Amazon one last bell. Whoops. He is, Oh my gosh. Terribly behaved dogs. They're very protected. Cut off. Wait, gosh. Oh my gosh. Now, where were we fast? Yeah, you were going to, you know, let's just back up and talk a little bit about, you know, what, what it is, and then you were going to say, you know, what are some of the benefits that we can gain from that? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (17:08): Yep. So the, before all that, just a little backstory, there's kind of two ideas of, uh, weight loss at this point are two theories, right? And calories in calories out. We all know that women that's, what's been hammered into us for years, eat less, move more. It's all about the calories. Right, right. Um, and there are plenty of people that will just hammer that until the day they die. But the true why is somewhere in between, it's not just calories in an inner energy expenditure. There's this other side that's hormonal that we kind of touched on a little bit. Um, but what happens with keto and fasting is that you regulate some of these hormones out and that contributes weight loss as well. And then there's kind of this other one that's been coming around the keto space lately. And that's this idea of polyunsaturated fats, which I mentioned before, the bad vegetable oils that create inflammation there, they actually, the two guys that do this are super techie and super scientific, but I'm going to say it in the most basic way that basically mucks up your mitochondria. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (18:10): So your mitochondria or the part of your cell that generates energy. And when you have too much polyunsaturated that it just kind of messes that whole system up and it doesn't allow you to burn fat as easily. Um, so there's a combination of factors. It's not just move more, eat less. That's not the end of the story. There's sleep, there's hormones. There's all these things that we've already talked about. Right. But as far as the fasting, what, why fasting helps in this process? Of course, because you're not eating, you're reducing calories. So if you believe in the calories in calories out, yes, you're going to lose weight for that because you're going to eat less food. Um, but there's also all of these other amazing benefits. And there's, by the way, the whole article on this, on my site with all the citations about the benefits of fasting, because there's so much, I love it. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (18:57): Um, but I really started doing it. So like I said, I've been in yoga and all this craziness. I mean, I've done all kinds of fasts. You guys, you guys are the age group. You might remember the master cleanse. Remember when that was real big, it's just like lemon. Okay. So, I mean, I've done that. I've done these argumentative. Kitchery cleanses, I've done juice staffs. I mean, I've, I've tried it all and I've, I always have done fasting in some shape or form mostly from being around the yoga community. But then in 2016, I think this is why I've been where you got that. One of the dates we were talking about is that I learned about the Nobel prize for autophagy and basically autophagy is your body's cellular cleanup process. And it happens most strongly when you're not eating food. Right. So, because I had had those tumors and because there was a lot of cancer in my family, I was like, Hey, well, I've, I've done bassing before I can do that. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (19:47): And it does all these amazing things in my body. I should probably do that on a more regular basis because of those health benefits. So autophagy is one of them. And that typically kicks in anywhere after 24 hours, it's happening to some degree all the time. So even when you wake up in the morning after an overnight fast, your, and then there's also the fact that it increases your human growth hormone. So as we age human growth, hormone declines, and that is one of the things that really helps you maintain and build muscle. And the more muscle we have as we get older muscle is the most metabolically active things. So I think we just lost Terry, but, um, but the it's most metabolically. So it helps you burn more calories if you have more muscle. So human growth hormone for that reason is a very good thing. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (20:54): Um, that's about 48 hours and longer. And then after 72 hours, we have this immune regulation regeneration thing that happens. Um, again, that's on my site and I've got the study cited. And then anything after that, it's debatable. Whether anything beyond 72 hours is necessary, but again, it depends on your goals. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish. There still benefits there's. Um, and if you're not in ketosis already, just by fasting for 18 to 24 hours, you'll go into a state, usually of a low-level ketosis. So that's just some of the, there's a whole bunch more on the thing, but that's all the benefits. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (21:30): Well, so, um, is this, is this like building up to run a marathon? Is that, I mean, do you want to fast for, you know, 10 or 12 hours a few days or a few times, and then work your way up into the, the 60 hours? Or is it something that you can just say, Hey, I'm doing 24 hours and just jump in and do it? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (21:53): Well, the marathon one is a great analogy because I think if you want to make it the easiest on yourself, it's kind of like using a muscle or working out or flexible, you know, the more you do it easier yet. So some of the initial times you do it, it might be a little bit more challenging, especially if you're not used to doing it. So I would definitely recommend yes, build up to it. Um, I'd like to see everybody do a minimum of 14 hours a day, which is mostly accomplished while you're sleeping. So let's say you cut, you eat dinner by six, you stop eating, you go to bed, you might not eat for an hour or two in the morning. And then you're good. You've already accomplished 14 hours and you're going to get some amazing benefits just from that, because, you know, we've all been around. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (22:35): I mean, I think the bodybuilders kind of brought this into saying, it's not to say it's wrong, but again, depends on your goals. But you know, this eating every two hours and constant snacking and all of this, all it does is raise your insulin every time you consume something. And if you bind it, this hormonal theory, all that's doing is creating those crashes and burns all day. That stimulates hunger that creates all these metabolic effects that are not beneficial basically. So if you can get a solid 14 hours without consuming anything, that's, that's an amazing start. And you can, like I said, do most of that while you're sleeping. So it's really for that, most people is not that challenging except for the not snacking, like for dinner. I know a lot of people like to do that. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (23:14): Yeah, yeah. That was my, you know, the evening in, this is a bad habit I developed years ago, but you know, that nine, 10 o'clock at night, if I don't go to bed early, then all of a sudden, you know, I'm wanting to go up to the convenience store and tell Terry, I said, I'll go up there for you. If you want a candy bar, be glad to go up there and get that for you. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (23:40): I'm almost going to talk about the, um, the, the low carb, uh, uh, I guess I'm going to pose this as a question, not a statement. So, uh, you know, there's, there is research around the fact that our brains work off of, um, the carbs, the carbs fuel our brains. And, but listening to some, uh, some other keto podcast and, and these were some medical experts. These weren't just the, you know, kind of the guy off the street telling me what he thought, but they were, um, medical experts saying that really our brains were designed to run off of fat. And so with the KIDO, we're kind of switching that back over from our, from our brain running on carbs, to running on fat myth. Can you, uh, can you, uh, elaborate on that a little bit? Is that the truth Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (24:34): Stand sheet, these places? So your brain does actually need, I think it's 120 grams of glucose every day to survive. Well, here's what nobody ever says. Your body can make all that glucose. You don't have to consume 120 grams of glucose, because think about it. If that would have been the case, we'd all be dead. We never would have evolved if your brain couldn't function without carbs, that makes no logical sense. Right? So that we can just throw that out the door. There's also evidence that, and actually I love this study. This excites me so much, and I need to learn this lady's name, but I can send you the link later. She's a Harvard researcher, super smart smarty pants lady. And one of her research things is about glucose utilization in the brain. So one of the things that they think is happening in people that have Alzheimer's and dementia is that they can't can't process glucose in their brain very well anymore. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (25:27): Or they're starting to call Alzheimer's type three diabetes. Actually, this is how attached to glucose it is. So, um, but what she discovered through her research is even in brains, and this happens by the way, and this is why I'm so interested in this. Um, my psychology degree, I went to grad school. I was in clinical neuropsychology. So I've always been into the brain stuff, but it, um, your brain never loses the ability to use ketones for fuel. So even if you get a brain, that's like a dementia brain that has already had some neuronal die-off. So you're, if you remember back to high school science, like the neurons kind of come together and there's a space in between, but anyway, the neurons are what helps your brain communicate basically, and those die with dementia or get damaged. Um, so, and they can't use glucose anymore because they've been so abused, but they can always still use ketones. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (26:16): So I just think the implications for that are amazing because they, at this point they really don't have any good Alzheimer's drugs. Um, and so if you look at that, that's for an extreme example, but if you look at the rest of us, we just have an aging brain that this happens a little bit naturally over time that your brain is not quite as quick. And we can't remember quite as well. Well, some of that could be because of carb problems over the years. Right. Um, so both my husband and I both found this. He keeps saying that he feels like his brain just keeps getting sharper the longer that he does, uh, low carb. And then we both, um, use a little supplement in the morning and it goes in our coffee that has MCT oil in it. And MCT oil actually helps your body produce more ketones. Um, probably the caffeine is obviously giving you a little jolt too, but the clarity that comes when your brain runs on ketones is just amazing to me. I can't describe the difference. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (27:15): Yeah, no, that's, that's true. And that's kind of about the, you know, what a part of that carb hangover I was talking about earlier is when I watch mine and do very well, I just seem so much clear thinking more creative, not bogged down, not, you know, not that it's hard to remember, uh, you know, Terry's name or not crazy stuff like that, but you know, when you're working through complex problems at work, sometimes you can be a little slower or just not be, feel like you're on your game. And I feel like carbs for me personally. Uh, I think they add to that cloudiness, dull, everything. Yeah. And, and you mentioned something else. We talked a little bit about that. The type three diabetes, uh, you know, is the, um, Alzheimer's, I guess the, and, um, I don't want to put you on the spot, but if you do know this is that. So as if we are diabetic, uncontrolled, th you know, for many years do, is this, does the study say that that's kind of what is leading into the, the, the Alzheimer's Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (28:25): That, that's my understanding of it. And just to reiterate for people here, I'm not a medical professional, I'm a psychologist, but I do read a lot of research. Yeah. It's my passion. And this is write about this stuff all the time. That is my basic understanding of it is that this, you know, uncontrolled blood sugar, even, not even, maybe in a diabetic, I read some, a new study that just came out that said even, uh, pre diabetes, I think this was in relation to heart disease actually. Um, but they found a link even between just pre-diabetes just to pre-diabetes and these problems. So, um, but yes, that is, it is this glucose inability to process glucose because we've kind of damaged ourselves metabolically. And if you, again, just going back to pure logic, if you think about evolution, so we can't keep up, like we're not evolved to eat what we're putting in our bodies. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (29:18): The last 150 years we're evolved eat, you know, meat and whatever we can forage basically is what we're designed to eat. Meanwhile, we've added all this stuff to our diets that just doesn't make any sense. It's highly processed. It's things that your body can't recognize. The two guys I was talking about before that talk about the polyunsaturated fats are like, well, part of the issue is body has made all of saturated that it doesn't recognize this thing that we're putting in there. And that's, what's mucking up the system. That's what I keep that's again, my basic [inaudible] bucket. Terry - Feeding Fatty (29:53): It's a Midwestern term. I used to say that. Yeah, Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (29:56): Totally. Um, or my dad's hog barn when I was a kid probably, but lucky me. Yeah. So I just think if you think of it from a very logical perspective, what we're putting in our bodies were not designed to, it makes sense that it would cause some problems for us down the road, whether that's, I mean, just about anything you can name, as you mentioned before, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, all of these things are just so related to what we're putting in our body. That's not natural. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (30:25): And I guess the point I was hoping to make with that is that if you're not worried about losing a toe or losing your eyes side and all the other complications that go along with diabetes, this new, you know, link between, uh, diabetes and Alzheimer's, you know, that is kind of a life sentence. And hopefully, you know, if you do have to struggle with it, it's, uh, later rather than sooner, but we don't always have, we don't get to make that choice. And so I guess I just, if you can just kind of drive home that, you know, the importance of making sure that if you are diabetic, your sugars under control it's that makes it even more important to me. And that's what, you know, it's been kind of a wake up call, uh, since we talked earlier in the week about, because that's, that's something that I had had known and had lost, didn't think about, but definitely makes me, uh, you know, want to want to do better. Cause that's, Terry - Feeding Fatty (31:20): It's never too late to start. I mean, it at least just start, especially if you are hearing what, what Cheryl's talking about. Um, I mean, the Alzheimer's, part's scary, you know, that's the one thing that everything's scary, but when you age, but losing, uh, the brain function and all of that and forget it, you know, forgetting who your family members are and all of that, that's a really scary thing. And my dad had it for a good 10, 12 years. Um, and he passed away about five years ago, but, uh, it was, uh, it was just a sad thing to watch and hear all of his siblings had, he had four siblings, all of his siblings had, I think one had dementia. The rest of them all had Alzheimer's. So, um, it's, it's, it's a real thing for me, for sure. So Quito sounded really good right now. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (32:16): The other thing, um, you know, I hate to belabor the point, but since we've kind of came here, the other point about this is the, um, uh, well, it just slipped my mind. Oh my gosh. I had something to really go in there, but Terry - Feeding Fatty (32:32): Well, Cheryl was going to say said ahead, maybe Cheryl she's young enough. She can remember, Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (32:39): Well, I don't know where you were going with that. But I guess sometimes when I talk about this stuff, I get really worried that people would just think, well, it's all doom and gloom and what the hell can I eat? I think the, I think the beauty thing in all of this that we're talking about is that the solution, I'm not going to say it's easy, but the solution is simple. The solution is carb restriction and fasting, and most people can do at least part of that to some degree. Um, it's not that difficult. I'm not going to say you have to be perfect all the time, but it's just like moving in that direction and over time, like, I'm sure you've experienced with after learning that you had diabetes, like, Oh, well what do I do now? And then it's starting to make these changes. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (33:23): And it just, you know, it takes time. So give yourself some grace. But I think, I think the exciting thing part of it is that it's, it's changeable. Like they didn't used to think this, they thought diabetes was like, there's nothing they can do is just keep giving you more insulin and insulin until you get an amputation and die. I mean, it was like before that, that was scary to me now to say to somebody, if we can just keep getting the word out there more like it's actually controllable and I'm not, I would say some people don't agree with this in the medical community, but I think it's curable with the, of eating that you reverse for sure. Yes, absolutely. At least reversible. I just think that's so exciting and I think it should be, it should be a real positive thing to know that you can avoid some of these really bad negative effects from having, you know, diabetes or getting brain problems or anything. I mean, Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (34:12): We've interviewed a lot of, I'll say a lot. We've probably had four or five people that have come on the show that, you know, had out of control diabetes and now it's, uh, their glucose was, you know, we had a guy that I think he went into a coma. I think his was over 500 and that's like I said, can you repeat that 500? And he actually passed out at a restaurant and, uh, yeah, it's an awesome episode as soon as he wants to go back and listen to it. You can't, but anyway, never been diagnosed with diabetes before he had that, that pass out. Yeah. But he cleaned him, he cleaned his eating up and he is off all his medication and doesn't take it. So, yeah, I guess as, as you said, we're not medical professionals, but I think there's enough evidence out there that some people can start change. They can change their lifestyle and it can make a huge difference with their glucose. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (35:06): That's right. Absolutely. And it's not just, I mean, there's a ton of anecdotal evidence at this point, but there have been new studies that have come out fairly recently showing how low carb can control and reverse diabetes very quickly. This happens in weeks for people once they really get it down and get with the program and we'd be like, yes, I'm doing this whole low carb thing. I mean, their sugars come down within weeks. It's amazing. Yep. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (35:30): W I, I did write down, I remembered what I was going to say earlier is that, um, when we were talking about Alzheimer's and excuse me, you know, so, um, I, I used to write, um, some original content for an aging website that we have, and I had found a theory that the spike that we see now in Alzheimer's can be traced back to the low fat craze of the, um, seventies coming into the eighties. And so it's interesting because, you know, we worry about, uh, carbs fuel in the brain. But some of the studies that I had said is that, you know, when we cut that fat, that the fat in the brain is what, um, helps keep everything connected. I guess, the, the neurons that you were talking about earlier in their connections, the fat, um, kind of keeps them gel together. Can you elaborate or would you care to elaborate on that? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (36:30): Yeah, I think that idea interesting one and I don't have, so there's this old movie called the Renzo's oil. I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but, um, so the idea is, so that nerves nerves, including the nerves in your brain and stuff, they all this sheath called a myelin sheath over them. And this kid in the movie had a disease where his myelin sheath was degenerate. And basically once the sheath goes, then your nerves can no longer communicate and you're, you're done. Like, that's just, that's the end of the story. Um, so what they were doing was they kept giving him oil and I don't know what kind of oil they used in the movie. I'm going to assume some kind of saturated fat. If what we've been talking about is all related and true. Um, it was able to, they kept giving him, uh, such a quantity of oil to kind of combat this, um, problem with the sheath and so that his nerves could still communicate. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (37:23): So I think that there is definitely something there. I think, you know, a higher fat diet allows your body to naturally produce more ketones, particularly MCT MCT is like really easily transferable from that form of fat into ketones and my own personal experience. I said, you know, growing up when I did the whole low fat thing, I really struggled with depression and anxiety, most of my adult life until I went keto. And you know, now I, um, liberal with the saturated fat, um, and my brain just, I think dual purpose, I think because of the ketones themselves acting in my brain, but then also, um, you know, additional fat in my diet. I just think it's just healthier for you on so many levels, especially for us as women, you know, you really need a proper amount of fat in your diet to produce good hormones. And it wouldn't surprise me if all that, you know, fibroid problems that I had in the past had to do with, you know, my hormones being out of whack because I didn't eat any fat. I just think that's so silly, um, that we still try to teach people that that's, that's, uh, a reasonable thing to do. It's not being low. Fat is difficult and very harmful. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (38:37): And there's a study this well, there's some studies that are going on. Um, it was a very limited the story that sparked the studies, let me put it that way is that, um, a lady, her husband had Alzheimer's and, you know, one of the ALS Hymers test is that you draw the clock face and have the person, you know, try to put the one, two, three, four round and see how it, and so anyway, this guy's initial clock was like, all the numbers were down at five. And, um, I don't know why she started doing this, but she started giving him three tablespoons of coconut oil every day. And, uh, after about six weeks, he was able to pretty much label the clock correctly. And, and, uh, you know, I want to clarify this by saying one person that I know of, but there was a doctor, uh, a research PhD that came out and talked to a group of us. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (39:33): And she said that there was enough evidence that there were three or four longitudinal longitudal studies that were launched because of that, because I guess there's some, there's more evidence that they may help, but, you know, again, we get back to the fat in the fat, in the diet and there's ways to mix it in. You just have to be careful because it's very high calorically. And so it's about 130 calories per tablespoon, but we mix it in our smoothies and try to try to use it in different ways, uh, you know, to hide it in food as we go through our day. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (40:09): Yeah, I think, and I think you make an excellent point there and just for your listeners, if they are more interested, you're talking, I believe you're talking about Dr. Mary Newport, because he is, she has that exact story. It was her husband that had Alzheimer's. She is actually, I believe a pediatrician or some kind of a doctor that had to do a children's. She wasn't originally involved in brain function, but when her husband got it, she started looking into clinical trials and like, how are we going to help him? And what she came across with some trial that was going on that was to work on Alzheimer's with a food supplement. Well, she called them and explained, and she found out that food supplement was indeed MCT oil, coconut oil. And so that's how she started giving it to him. And now she kind of has been all around the research and speaking circuit, uh, kind of sharing her story. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (40:54): She has a couple of books out. Um, but her, yeah, her research is so interesting. And I think the point that you made about MCTV very caloric is a good one because, you know, obviously a lot of people, they come to this, one of their goals is weight loss. Um, but I would say the thing about including more fat in your diet is that it's more satiating. So, and it tends to, again, like even out that there's hunger signals. So even if you have a meal that you add the MCT or a little higher calorie with that fat, I would say you'll probably end up eating less overall, just because you're more satisfied in your feeling, you know, the nice brain effects from that MCT boosting your ketones. Right? Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (41:34): Yeah. And now's a good time to kind of mention, and again, I'm going to pose this as a question to you, but, you know, we still have to watch our protein intake and we still have to watch that fat intake just because of the caloric value, but something I heard interestingly enough, on, um, this was a keto based podcast, is that if we eat enough protein, our, I guess our body is able to translate that into carbs. And so it's, um, I guess because there's at some limit, we can just overdo it. It's like anything at some limit, we can overdo anything, no matter how healthy. So I guess the point is that we, even though we're doing the low carb, we still have to pay attention to our levels of protein and the caloric intake that we have from the fat that we're eating. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (42:28): Yeah. And I think some people would take, some people would argue that with you. And I think, again, it's kind of just learning your personal tolerance, but for the protein. So what you were mentioning, your, your body can make glucose out of protein if it needs through, through this process called gluconeogenesis. And so there has been some talk in the keto space, like if you overeat protein, does it, you know, spike your glucose or kick you out of ketosis or these kinds of things? Well, there's two schools of thought. One says it's demand driven so that your body will only take protein and make it into glucose if it really, really needs it. So are most people, they think that it's probably not that much of a concern. There's, there's also this other concern. That, again, I'm very focused on aging cause I'm towards 50, but there's this other, there's this other idea of, um, you know, there's two ways to build muscle. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (43:23): We all know about weightlifting resistance training, but you can also just by prioritizing protein in your diet can help you maintain and even build muscle mass. Um, there's this one keto podcast that I listened to and she kind of did an experiment on herself with carnivore and without really working out over a couple of years of just prioritizing protein, she put on something like eight pounds of lean mass just through prioritizing protein. So I think for a lot of people, it's kind of a non concern. It's very difficult to overeat protein. I'm really focused on eating more for those reasons I just described. And I find it challenging to get a hundred grams of protein a day. I mean, I just did, and I'm not eating much else protein to start with. So, um, I think for most people it's probably not a super big concern. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (44:12): I think again, if you are diabetic and you're checking your sugars and you notice, Hey, if I eat a big steak and my glucose does do something a little funky, I think for most people that that might just be the quantity of food sometimes too, causing that larger spike, not just that it was protein. So I don't know. I think there's a lot of different schools of thought on right now. There's a sky and it's, I can't remember 10 name and it's the one that do this. It's it's called the PE diet. So his is promoting a much higher protein, uh, paradigm. And then, you know, there's people that'll say, well, ketos, just a moderate protein. You don't need as much protein because Quito in and of itself is very protein sparing. So again, I think it comes back to your goals like me, I'm focused on keeping the muscle I've got and trying to build more as I get older. So I'm tend to be a little more on the protein heavier side, but if it negatively affects your blood sugar and you're diabetic, maybe you want to moderate again. I think it's go back to what are your goals is what I always have to ask. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (45:09): Yeah. And I think you bring up a good point about what we eat at a setting because you know, one thing about myself I notice is, you know, I, I try to be around 40 to 60 carbs a day generally. And um, if I eat all 40 at one meal with the big old baked potato and some bread, of course, you know, I see that the big spike, whereas if I would just spread those 40 out over, uh, you know, a days period doesn't have near as much effect. So I think that, I think that's a good point to bring up is while we can have a lot of things, sometimes it may be the quantity in which we eat them. Or the other part of that is eating a big carb heavy meal right before bed, you know, eating and then going to bed and a couple hours. So at least, you know, for me, if I eat those carbs earlier in the day, it gives me a chance to burn them off. And so what I try to do is eat, you know, heavier carbs in the morning and just try to taper those off as I come through the day. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (46:08): Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (46:10): Yeah. All right. Well, uh, Terry, do you have anything else? Terry - Feeding Fatty (46:14): I just wanted to make sure to mention that you have some, um, delicious looking recipes on your website also there's is a pistachio Crested. Um, is it Cod? Yeah, that's a good one. Oh my gosh. I have, I have, uh, some mahi mahi. I wonder if, could I do the same thing, maybe I'll do that. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (46:34): I would totally do it with the Mahima it's and it's, um, it's really quick and easy too, because, you know, especially when you get a coddler and they tend to be pretty thin, so they can be cooked really quickly. Um, but when I, you know, I make recipes for the website because that is part of what I do, but on a day-to-day basis, I'm super boring. And I actually think that, you know, a lot of people want to overcomplicate low carb. It's just like pick a protein, pick a low carb, veggie, put some butter on it. So a little salt you're done basically. I mean, all the recipes are great and nice. And I have a lot of fun doing that, but, um, I think, you know, for the day to day basis is like, just don't, don't make it too hard for yourself. Just, you know, go for the easy things, like a chicken breast and some whatever, or a steak and some Brussels sprouts or whatever it is, you know? Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (47:23): Yeah. And even when you go out to eat one thing that, you know, I found over time is that if, even if you don't see the straight chicken breast, grilled chicken breast on the menu, typically one of their meals has something that includes a grilled chicken breast that they do something else with. If you just ask for it, they are more than happy to just bring you some, uh, you know, the grilled chicken breasts and some cauliflower or some, you know, broccoli or something like that. So always ask don't, don't not go out and have fun just because you think that you can't eat at the restaurant you're going to right. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (47:58): Yeah. Actually, I mean, this is the easiest way of eating I've ever done. And I can, I mean, I eat out a fair amount with, we try not to do it too much, especially with this whole polyunsaturated fat thing. Cause that's, that is the one challenge in a restaurant is they're always going to have soil and Cornwell and all this crappy oil and what I will say, like it was, you know, it's about 10,000 times easier than being a vegetarian, right. Go out to eat. Gosh. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (48:23): Right. Well, we have taken a lot of your time and it was such a good conversation. I apologize. We've gone so far over, but a lot of great information. So if you don't mind, uh, well, first off, before we go too far is what is a tool or a habit, uh, something that you do every day, personal professional that adds a lot of value to your life that you couldn't do without Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (48:47): Well, um, I would have to say, well, I have a lot to say about this because I actually have this whole, um, article about five things you need to create better habits. Nobody wants more, I'll keep it to one but more information on that. Um, but I would say the thing that I personally feel like is good for me every day is the intermittent fasting. I, so I, I generally try to keep my eating window to six to eight hours a day, which means I have a 16 to 18 hour fast every day. Uh, so I'll typically try to be finished eating by 6:00 PM as often as possible. Sometimes it goes a little later, but, um, and then I'll just, you know, do my routine in the morning, um, have a little fat in my coffee, the idea of, so a fast for a tough a, you really don't want to consume anything a fast, that's more just for keeping your insulin balanced. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (49:39): If you want to have a little fat in your coffee in the morning, that's fine. It's not going to, um, you know, you know, the whole, the whole conversation about breaking your fast is another whole long conversation. So I like to have little, you know, little fat in my coffee. And then that helps me extend my time to my first meal. So then I'll eat around noon or whenever I start to get hungry. Um, but I just think that particularly in that morning hours, so you've had your overnight fast, uh, your brain is like you said, you've experienced, it's like the opposite of when you have that carby meal the night before you stop eating at six, you don't snack before bed. You go to get as good sleep. You wake up in the morning and you're like, your brain is like, I'm ready to rock this. You know? And I have that little coffee with my fatty thing in, and I'll like, get so much production and work done in the morning. Um, so I think for me that intermittent fasting, it's just, I know it's good for my health, but it also makes me more productive. So that would be my hope. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (50:30): Okay. Yeah. And the coffee, what do you have in your, I used to drink, um, something in my coffee. It's kind of like butter, but it's, uh, it's really solid. Oh, Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (50:43): [inaudible] the product I use is called Quito cream and it's got collagen and MCT. Um, but there's, there's a bunch of different ones out there. And certainly the one thing I would say to your point earlier about if, you know, if your goal is weight loss, I wouldn't go putting Eli like two sticks, but I mean, some of these fatty coffee things, I've seen assembly 400 calories. I, what I do, I'm talking about, it's like a hundred calories, but I would be careful with that, uh, as, as like just chloric dense, but then there are delicious these fatty coffees. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (51:19): Yeah. This is like a butter, a butter SA G yeah. G that's what they used. What, uh, somebody, one of the keto podcasts that suggested is have a little bit again in your butter. I mean a little getting coffee [inaudible] all right, Cheryl. Well, uh, tell everybody, uh, who is your client? What can you do for them? And of course, how can they reach out and get ahold of you? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (51:43): So I do health and wellness coaching. Of course, all of the content that I create is available. Well, most of it is available for free on my website, Heald nourish, grow.com. Um, I'm heal, nourish, grow all over social media. So if you just look for me on any of those things, there's, I mean, there's so many ways to get in touch with people now, direct messages or email or whatever. Um, but I just, I look for people. I mean, a lot of people come to me for Quito related, obviously, but I have this whole other, um, side of the health and wellness. Like I like to approach it in a very holistic way. Um, like for example, I mentioned the sleep and the stress, like if somebody is going to come to work with me on weight loss, I'm going to be asking a lot more questions, not just it's about what you ate and not asking about the top going, how's your relationship? Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (52:34): How's your, are you sleeping? You know, there's, there's just so many things that can create a picture of health and it's different for everybody. So if you go to my site, I have this, this page is called what is ultimate wellness. Okay. And that's part of my, you know, hashtag that you are my tagline that you said on my website. And that is to say that it's different for everybody. Like my version, my personal version of ultimate wellness is going to be very different from yours. Very different from Terry is very different brevity. So first part of the thing I like to have people do is, you know, identify some of their core values and goals and things like that. And so, um, so the people that I'm working with generally there, I try to tell them this before, because some people are like, just tell me what to eat. Cheryl - Heal Nourish Grow (53:17): And that's probably not my perfect client, because I just don't think that that's going to generate the most amount of success or happiness for a person. If that, if they're not ready to delve into some of this other stuff, which I get it, everybody's in a different place. Um, but for me, that's the people I get most excited about working about is like, they're like, yeah, I'm ready to tackle this whole thing. And I realize it's not just what I eat. Like I've got to look at some of this other stuff too. So I think that was, Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (53:44): Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a, you know, for us, we look at it, well-rounded like, it's not only what we eat, but it's that sleep component. It's the water intake. It's reducing the stress. It's, you know, just putting yourself in a better position on that Terry - Feeding Fatty (53:57): Mentally mindset, all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (54:02): Well, thank you so much. Uh, that's going to do it, I guess, for another episode of feeding fatty, uh, we, you can find us of course, at www.beatingfatty.com and we're on the social media as well. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and then also this interview will go, the video portion will go up on YouTube when the episode is released. So we also are on iTunes, Google, Stitcher, Spotify. We're not on your favorite podcast platform. Let me know. And we'll be sure and add you. So Cheryl, thank you so much for giving us all this extra time. We certainly do appreciate it. Terry - Feeding Fatty (54:37): Thank you, Cheryl. You've been very helpful. Oh my gosh. So many things that we haven't talked about yet. Roy - Feeding Fatty - The Benefits of Eating Low Carb and Keto with Intermittent Fasting (54:44): Yup. Y'all reach out and see how Cheryl can help. Y'all all right. Until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health. Bye.   HealNourishGrow.com. www.feedingfatty.com    

Lead Generation with Roy Harmon Roy Harmon is an experienced marketer with a demonstrated history of generating leads in the legal, political, automotive, higher education, software, and healthcare industries. His efforts have mobilized voters, enticed customers, and persuaded donors. Advertoscope isn’t your typical lead generation company. Most of the time, business owners searching for lead generation services end up fighting for leads generated by third parties. Those leads are sold to multiple competing businesses, and anyone buying them has to hope that: the lead is qualified their sales rep gets to the lead first their sales rep closes the lead before the competition bombards them with other offers You won’t have that problem with Advertoscope. We help businesses generate their own leads. We’ll work with you to generate a detailed customer profile so you know the leads you receive are highly qualified and ready to close. For more information, shoot Roy Harmon an email at roy@advertoscope.com. www.advertoscope.com www.seniorivingsalesandmarketing.com Full Transcript Below  Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (00:03): Hello, and welcome to another episode of senior living sales and marketing. I'm Roy. Yeah. This is the show where, you know, we try to focus our efforts on the senior living industry and specifically the sales and marketing. Uh, some things that we are seeing are things that may be able to help your community actually increase your occupancy or do it, uh, at a more reasonable rate, try to, you know, find cost-effective ma uh, lead generation devices. And so, uh, which brings us to our guests today, Roy Harmon, we're going to talk about lead generation and he's been in multiple industries. He's been in healthcare. Uh, he's been in the, uh, SAS law, politics, automotive and higher education as well. So, um, Roy, without further ado, we'll just bring you on and we'll get talking. How's your morning going Roy Harmon (01:01): One. Great. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me on. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (01:04): Good, good. Yeah. Thanks for taking time out of your day. So yeah, lead generation, uh, you know, that's important an important part of, uh, the S uh, in senior living for sure, because, you know, when somebody moves out, hopefully we've got a waiting list, but as things go, sometimes the people at the top of the list aren't always ready to go. So we, you know, have to have an, uh, some way, not only to keep that wait list full, but also have, um, some method in place where we can constantly have leads coming in just to make it easier, you know, any, um, you know, a day with the, uh, with an empty room. We never recapture that revenue. So very important to, you know, cut that down as well. So first off, kind of, how did you get here? And I, I know that you've been in politics and I'm actually a lawyer as well. So kind of tell us a little bit about how you got here. Roy Harmon (02:04): Yeah, well, so I did, I graduated from law school, but I realized my mistake before I actually took the bar. So not actually not actually a lawyer, but, um, but I had the pay off the same student debt as the rest of them. So, um, yeah, I, uh, I started out in politics doing political marketing Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (02:27): And Roy Harmon (02:29): Ma you know, a lot of grassroots stuff, mobilizing voters and things like that. And I really enjoyed that and I realized that that was easily applicable to anything else. So, you know, whether you're trying to get a donor to make a donation or a vote, or to show up for a, um, for a signed wave or to make a phone call any time that you're trying to get somebody to take action that's to the principals are going to be very similar. Right. And so I went from there to automotive and worked for an agency that did, um, did, did advertising for a tier three automotive dealerships. And from there just went to a number of different industries and, and found that I, my initial suspicion was correct. And these, these principles really do apply, uh, broadly across multiple industries. And, um, over that time, one of the areas where I found that it could really benefit from this kind of thinking is senior living, where a hundred percent occupancy is such a big, uh, important factor and the idea of having a full pipeline or having a, you know, having a waiting list, having these people who are familiar and ready to, to actually, uh, come on and become a, a resonant is something that's important because it's not a, it's not a short sales cycle on necessarily mean people are, there's a pretty big decision, right. Roy Harmon (04:11): And the longer the sales cycle, the longer the decision-making process, the more important it is to have these marketing efforts in place. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (04:22): Yeah. Well, I'm just gonna needle you just a little bit about being, being out of politics before this cycle. That was probably a blessing in itself. Roy Harmon (04:35): I've, I've always, I've always done a pretty good job of, uh, of knowing when to move to the next area. And so I got out of that, I'd say just in time Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (04:46): And that was it. Yeah. I was going, it doesn't matter what side you're on today. Uh, everybody pretty much took a beating. So yeah, no, I think the importance of what you're saying is, um, can't be stressed enough is that we've got to keep that pipeline full and, and I don't ever want to, um, I guess inbound and outbound are complimentary when we'd never say, Hey, we're not going to do, we're going to do inbound. We're not doing any outbound or we're not, we're going to do outbound, no inbounds whatsoever. I think there has to be a good combination because, you know, Indiana, we got to pick up the phone, we got to build relationships, talk to people, do things like that. But the, um, what I like about inbound is number one is I think the, um, it works for you 24 seven. So if an adult child, you know, we, uh, adult children are, you know, I'm blessed because my kids are older. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (05:46): So I'm not that sandwich generation, but, you know, adult children, they got jobs. They're working all day. You know, they come home at night and maybe, you know, there's nobody at the community they're interested in at 10 o'clock at night when they're doing the research. So they're able to, you know, go on the internet, wherever websites, social media, to look around at the different places. But also, um, I think it's easily eat easily, uh, scalable too. So we can start out find something that works. We can ramp it up versus, uh, you know, having to add employees. So, um, let's just talk to those two points. First off, we can talk about it, you know, work in 24 hours for us working 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Roy Harmon (06:35): Yeah. Well, and the great thing about it is you can automate it so much of it can be automated as long as you're creating the content and creating the, putting the processes in place. Most of this can be automated and then it can serve your outbound efforts as well. So they, they, they tie together in a way that each one together is going to be better than it would be on its own. Um, but so, yeah, that's, that's a really great thing about it. And it doesn't even require necessarily the investment in some really expensive marketing automation platform. There's some fairly automated things you can do just with, within the Facebook ads platform or within Google displays ad platform. If you're, if you're creating content and you say, let's just say, you've got you, let's keep it simple and say, you've got two personas. Let's say, you've got, you want to find your people who are, um, who are actual the parents who would actually be moving in. Roy Harmon (07:44): And then you also have your people who are, uh, the, the caretakers, the, the children who are providing care for the apprentice. Uh, you know, you want to have different content for each person, right? And as they go through the, the buyers journey as HubSpot calls, that they're going to have different questions, different problems that they're dealing with. And, and you want to answer those questions with your content. Then on Facebook ads, you can set up your audiences and based on what content they've gone to, you can, you can know about where they're at in the process and tailor your messaging based on that. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (08:26): Yeah, that, that's a good point if, uh, somebody's spending a lot of time on the care component or aspect, then, you know, that would be a good touch point to talk about, you know, the safety, the meals, whatever they're interested in, whatever their needs, but also, you know, if they're looking at the amenities activities, you know, if it's more of a independent, active community, then, uh, you know, we can target them with that because it's important, everybody. Um, I think it's a good distinction to make that everybody has their kind of their own unique need for wanting to make changes, not just in senior living, but in any company. I mean, excuse me, with any product it's like different motivations. So it's so important that, um, we be able to, I guess it makes us sound intelligent, but also it, uh, you know, we can, without having to grill people to ask a lot of questions, we can get right to the point to address whatever their needs are. Roy Harmon (09:28): You're providing more value to them. You're, uh, and you're also not hitting them with irrelevant information. Right. Um, and just one thing that, that you, you kind of touched on, uh, there briefly is that it really it's important when it comes to these buyer personas. You have to understand who you're marketing to. Uh, you know, I mean, if it's a memory care facility it's going to be, you know, the people who you're, you're looking at, it's going to be entirely different. You know, the, the amount of direct marketing you're going to do to, to a resident in that case may be very low, but maybe you're, uh, you know, there, but there's still going to be different factors that come into play, and you have to know who you're marketing to, uh, in order to do that effectively. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (10:19): Yeah. And we've talked a lot about that, that it's, it's very good to sit down, especially at the beginning of a campaign or when you're retooling a little bit and give a lot of thought to, you know, who is our customer, what is the avatar, you know, back in the day, we, you say, create an avatar of that, that buyer persona. And the other thing another we've taught prior to this about, uh, sometimes that the person that we are sometimes the person that we may be, uh, need to message to may not be the buyer, you know, especially with kids, kids products, we, you know, we may get them hooked in the same thing with senior living. It's just like, you know, my mother, she is, um, you know, we're starting to talk about that, but she's going to be a very big part of that. So, you know, we need to reach her, communicate the message that she needs to hear, but then also, you know, as the adult children, me and my sister will be very heavily involved in that decision. And so, um, you know, we have to get our own messaging about the safety and things like, you know, she's worrying about playing cards and social activities and doing all that stuff where we're worrying about, you know, safety care Roy Harmon (11:38): And 10 that's where inbound marketing is, is really powerful because you have the opportunity, the opportunity to speak to people on that one to one level. Right. Whereas where, you know, when they actually show up for a tour, I mean, you know, you have things in place to try to kind of like maybe, uh, maybe you'd have an opportunity to do that a little bit, but it's never going to be as direct as when somebody is out there trying to find the answer to their problem. And you can be there anytime of the day and have the answer and have your name be associated with, um, with that moment where they, they found that information that either gave them comfort or, you know, settled their mind about something or, you know, whatever the case may be. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (12:27): Right. Right. Yeah. So, um, you know, in handling these leads, that's another thing is, uh, when you set up these campaigns, you have to be ready. Cause sometimes we get surprised with the overwhelming response that we may have. And so if people are taking the time to respond in some manner, uh, us as the, the marketing sales and marketing team, we have to be able to respond to those in a timely manner because we never know really, if this is a needs driven or, you know, a lot of it is typically somewhat needs driven, but some of it more urgent than not. And so, you know, being sure that we can have a response to that. It's an important part of that equation as well, because we want to feel like, Hey, I've took the time to research this company. I've took the time to reach out. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (13:20): And then, you know, for me personally, having somebody take a, a day or two, or I actually had one the other day where it's been like three or four months since I reached out to them and I got an email from the guy like, well, I've already bought it, moved on and maybe fixing to make another decision, but now, so right now we just have to be sure and take, you know, leads or leads or just like manna from heaven. And so when we get one, we have to be sure and take care of it and nourish it. And, um, which kind of gets us to the, uh, you know, we'll go with the aggregate aggregation, uh, model of, uh, plant, uh, you know, we so nourish or cultivate, and then we harvest. And so with any campaign, we may get lucky and get some bumps. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (14:08): But I think that we need to take a long-term approach to this and realize that w we're not only looking for that low hanging fruit of today, but we're also trying to build that pipeline of, like you said, maybe, uh, maybe you don't really have, maybe you've begun to think about it for your parents or, uh, something happens like a thought in the back of your mind. So you're not ready today, but if, um, you know, kind of dripping on you and have these campaigns in six months from now, when things really change, I've been in front of you enough that you feel like you have some knowledge of my company, my community, our service. So let's talk a little bit about, you know, how we, the, you know, making sure that we not only have patients, but we think about the long game as well. Roy Harmon (15:00): Yeah. Really crucial element of it. Then the, the biggest value of the inbound. Well, well, I mean, there's so many, so many benefits, so, well, let's just say one of the big, one of the big benefits is that unlike with advertising or leads that you get from somebody else, some, you know, like maybe you buy a mailing list and you're only allowed, but they tell you, you can, you can send them, uh, you can send a mailer to this group one time or two times, or however much you pay for. But anytime you want to contact that mailing list, you have to pay again. Right. Um, if you have a remarketing list through, you know, Facebook or Google or any other platform, you can advertise it to that and remarketing lists, but you don't have any other access to it. So the great thing about inbound is that you bring these people in, you provide value, and you say, if you'd like further value, give me your email address and I'll, I'll send you this, uh, maybe it's a downloadable offer, or if there's the bottom of the funnel, or maybe it's having them come in for a tour or getting a phone call for more information, but then you have the ability now, depending on how much information you get, you can, at the very least you should be able to email them. Roy Harmon (16:25): You can potentially call them. You may have, uh, you may even have their mailing address and be able to send them as much mail as you want. And, and that's the lead nurturing process, you know, that's, once you, that you now have the ability to cost-effectively nurture those leads, instead of just hoping that the you're the one they remember when the time comes, you're actually proactively ensuring that that you're there, that you're top of mind, uh, when they're ready to make a decision. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (16:56): Yeah. And our it's a, it's a high percentage play are higher percentage play as well because these, what you gather from your own inbound marketing through those, you know, lead gathering or what I would consider warm leads, because somebody has reached out to you versus that list that you've purchased. I mean, a lot of times we don't know where they are, you know, maybe, maybe that name was a good, uh, lead two years ago, but now you're, you know, they've already made a decision. And so you can spend a lot of time and effort, not really knowing the quality of what Roy Harmon (17:33): And third party data, for example. And I'm a big believer in third party data through programmatic advertising and things like that. But you have to look at the duration because some of those lists there, you know, can be, this person has been in market for this since six months ago. Yeah. And well, I mean, you know, that may be really effective for some, um, for some air, you know, industries, but if somebody is, for instance, really meaning to put their mother, for instance, in a memory care facility, they may not be able to wait around six months. And so you may be, you may be hitting a hit and a bunch of people who were like, Oh yeah, I actually already made a decision. And, uh, on another note, some of these companies where they'll, they'll give you leads or sell, you leads, there's some, a little bit of five people at one time, right? Roy Harmon (18:35): So first of all, you're not controlling the messaging from the start, right. Because they're coming in through somewhere somewhere else. And then you're fighting with, you know, three, four, five other people to get that business. And that's not to say you shouldn't, you, I I'm, I'm a, I'm a big believer in using everything that makes sense financially, if you're, if you get leads and they're, uh, you know, through some website and they're converting at a profitable rate, then I would say, continue to do that. Right. But you also want to keep an eye on, on your ROI and make sure that you're looking towards the future to have this pipeline in place that we've been talking about. Um, so that you're not fully reliant on, on somebody else on, you know, being able to out-compete these people, uh, when it comes to, you know, making these phone calls, which mean, you know, if you're buying leads like that, you need to be calling them back within five minutes. Um, so that's something to think about when you're, when you're making your decisions about how to allocate your marketing budget. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (19:47): Yeah. It was kind of a funny story. We had a client, this has been a few years ago that they had actually got a lead. And as we were looking down through some of the names, it's like, they, it was a smaller market, so it wasn't a big city, but looking down through the names are like, Oh yeah, both of these people are Hardy residents here. So, you know, the it's not. And like you said, I think it needs to be a part. We just, if we can build this really good inbound marketing machine where we have control, uh, you know, I think our, I think we would see that the conversion rates are going to be much, much higher. Right. Roy Harmon (20:23): Well, and if you're paying somebody like the first month, if you're paying the first month rent or, you know, to somebody, um, you know, the, there may be a more profitable way to get those people in the door because that could be sometimes it's just a huge expense for those kind of weeds. Right, right. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (20:49): Yeah. So what are, um, you know, there's so many different channels out there, but give us an example of, you know, maybe, uh, a strategy that somebody could put into play. Of course, content, I think it, it's gonna all pretty much start with good content. No matter if we're talking about our website, if we're talking about messaging on, uh, social media platforms, or even a snail mail, you know, whatever we choose to do, we really need to have good thoughtful content. Roy Harmon (21:29): Yeah. And so one thing that, um, that I think is pretty interesting way to go is direct mail retargeting. So based on what, where people go on your website, if they don't convert, you can send them a postcard. Right. Um, and if you are creating the content, like we've talked about where, you know, the kind of person who's going to be looking at it and where they're, if they're looking at a content X, they're probably at the top of the funnel, and they're probably this persona, so these, this is the kind of messaging we want to send them. And if you can do that for each stage of the funnel, and let's say you just divided in the three, uh, top, middle and bottom of funnel, you can not only be generating that, that SEO by answering people's questions, providing value in a way that will eventually rank, but you can also send traffic there through Facebook ads. Roy Harmon (22:36): Like we talked about earlier, creating those audiences, then you can add on the direct mail retargeting aspect to where not only did they see your Facebook ad and then look at your content that was relevant to them, but then they received a postcard with further information. And you can do that down the line throughout the funnel until you get to the point where maybe at the bottom of the funnel, you have some sort of an offer or something like that to get them to come in for a tour. And, um, you know, just really hit them, have a lot of touch points where your, your brand awareness is just topically, you know, really top of the charts at that point. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (23:24): Yeah. And, you know, direct mail still works fairly well. I know, um, I was involved in the, uh, it's been a few years ago, but we had a smaller, uh, church congregation and, you know, we didn't do a lot of outreach, but one of our members was, you know, fussing one day. He's like, I get mail from this church up street, you know, all the times that I know more about what's going on in that church than I do, what's going on here. So, you know, uh, it's important to realize that everybody gets their, receives their information in so many different ways. There are people that love the mail. They wait by the door every day for the mailman to come. You know, some people are more email centric or a text or whatever. So, you know, we, we got to, I think we have to work to kind of, uh, spread that message out over a lot of different, um, channels, just to see what works best. I mean, you never know. Roy Harmon (24:24): Well, and something to note about direct mail re-targeting is it can be a lot more affordable. Uh, the company I use does, um, it's like 81 cents a postcard. Yeah. And they only charge you when a postcard is sent. So depending on your traffic, I mean, you may not be spending that much on it, but you're able to get that extra touch point for less than a dollar. Right. And, uh, you know, sort of be able to capitalize on the other things you've been doing. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (25:01): Yeah. And our touch points too. You know, we kind of mentioned that earlier about the, um, you know, being sure that we cultivate our leads, that it can be, I've read anywhere between, you know, eight to 12 touches for a typical buying. And that's across a lot of industries. I know, but th unless it's somebody who is very, very needs driven, they have an immediate need today. You know, you need to expect to be able to touch people eight or 10 times at a minimum, which kind of leads us into not what, this is not what this conversation is really about, but I think that it amplifies the need, uh, for CRM. And I know that, um, there's a lot of pushback. People don't want to take the time, don't have the time, but I think it's just one of those tools that you have to live and die by when you, especially when you have these campaigns going, because you got to know, well, who's queued up for me to send something to what's my next touch point time. What was the last thing I said to them? Because if you are good about writing your conversations down, you may pick up other things that are good, uh, touchpoint items Roy Harmon (26:20): They're going to, yeah. You're going to have more ideas for things to content, to create. You're going to know more about, I mean, that the CRM, to me, that's a no brainer and a must have, because when they come in, you need to remember the things that they've said to you, you need to, they need to feel like, you know them and you need to have everything. Um, I think one thing that sort of turns people away from the CRM is that it can be difficult to, to implement, but, you know, you just, it's definitely worth it. Whether you have to find somebody who, who can set that up for you initially and let it pay dividends for forever, or whether you just sit down and say, I'm going to watch, HubSpot's free training on it and learn it. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (27:09): Yeah. Yeah. And it's a good point because I've tried four or five over time and, uh, some of them are beating, but, you know, hubs to me, I use HubSpot and it's very, user-friendly, you know, I can sit here while I'm having a conversation and type in notes. I think you bring up a good point too, that if, uh, I've talked to five people this week and they've all asked the same question, or, you know, the similar topic has come up with them, then that may be somewhere where we're short on our content, that we can create that piece of content that, uh, you know, may answer these questions. But, um, yeah, I think that don't want to overemphasize it, but I just feel like we have to, um, we have to utilize the CRMs that are available. And, you know, I guess kind of a note to management is that, you know, I think, uh, w w found a lot of times are found a group that, you know, they were manipulating their numbers because they were just getting beat up by management over their numbers. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (28:17): And I don't, um, I think we need indices. We need to measure results. We need all that, but we've gotta be careful on the management side about not using our, um, our results measurements as a stick, to beat people up. I think we have to use those as a utilization tool. And especially when we have these campaigns, because if we, if we're putting our money in the wrong place, we may have a lot of phone calls, but, you know, if we're getting phone calls from 20 somethings that are, you know, looking for something else, or they thought it was something else, then we can conclude that. Obviously we have done not done something right. With our messaging. And we, you know, that that's the bad thing is in, and in my CRM, it looks like, wow, he handled, you know, a hundred leads this week and sold zero. Yeah. But if they were all, you know, teenagers or 20 somethings then, yeah. Roy Harmon (29:13): Where are they? Good leads? Are they qualified where they all, you know, where they, you know, like stale, I bet all different kinds of theirs. Cause you know what I mean? Sometimes marketing just didn't do a good job. Or sometimes, I mean, there are times where, whether it's seasonality or something else, you know, varies by industry. But, um, I haven't seen where sometimes people are almost, you want everybody's incentives to be aligned so that everybody is working in the same direction and you don't want to, um, you know, you want to make sure you're being fair because a lot of times there's only so much the, you know, your sales team can do. Yeah. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (29:57): And our marketing team needs to be sure. And this is where cohesiveness is so important because a lot of times those people are the same people, but it may be somebody at a corporate is doing the messaging. And that's where it's important for marketing to reach out to the frontline sales people to say, what are your results telling us, you know, are we, is this messaging good? Are we putting it in the right place? Have you had some traffic? Uh, you know, we have to ask those questions because we always want to be tweaking these campaigns as we go forward. Uh, you know, doesn't matter if it's a really good one. I think we can always make it a little bit better. So, uh, yeah, it was great to, uh, you know, kind of tie all this together every week. I don't know that we, we talk about things in kind of in silos a lot, but you know, this is really a team effort. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (30:50): It starts at the very top and it runs to the receptionist. You know, they are one of the Mo more important individuals in, in the community, first voice on the phone. First person you see, when you come in. And so, you know, we all have to take all that into account and it's always good to, if we're running some kind of a special campaign to let everybody be on the same page, there's nothing more embarrassing than somebody walking in and mentioning this thing they saw on an ad and everybody at the community levels are, huh, wait, what are you talking about? We didn't even know anything about that. So good communication. It's always important to make our, you know, our marketing programs work as best as they can. Yeah. Well, Roy, thanks again for taking time out of your day to be here with us, uh, before we let you go, a couple of things first off, what is the tool that you use either in your professional life or personal life that you just couldn't live without? Roy Harmon (31:55): I really, these days. So I've started doing a daily newsletter and I've been using mailer Lite, just their free version. And I have I'd loved it. It has marketing automation that I would not expect to have available for free. And so I've really, I've been enjoying that and it's been fun to use. And, uh, so far people, um, once I moved to the daily newsletters, I was wondering, are people going to want to hear about lead generation every day? Um, and so far it seems that Mo the vast majority of people do so. Yeah, it's, that's good. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (32:40): Good. All right. Well, tell everybody, uh, who's your customer, what you can do for them, and of course, how they can reach out and get ahold of you. Roy Harmon (32:48): Yeah. So I work with companies that are, you know, anybody who's got a, a longer sales cycle needs to do more, um, really has, uh, something where they need to educate people along the way, and really make sure they, they understand so that they they're increasing their sales velocity, their, their leads are qualified. They're getting the right people in their pipeline. And, uh, people can find me on LinkedIn, um, or at, at Virta scope.com where I write about lead generation and digital marketing, and a lot of the stuff that we've been talking about today. Roy - Senior Living Sales and Marketing (33:29): All right. Awesome. Well, thanks again. And just to our listeners, thanks for listening. You can find us@wwwdotseniorlivingsalesandmarketing.com. Also we're on all the major platforms, iTunes, Google play, Stitcher, Spotify. Uh, so if we're not on the platform that you listened to send me an email and I'll be sure and get us submitted until next time, keep selling.  

Shamekka Garnette found in Rapides Parish and William Lyles found in the Vermilion River in Lafayette Parish Louisiana. Shamekka Garnette was last seen August 13, 2004, when she left with a friend for a night out. She was found four days later in a drainage ditch off I-49. William Lyles was last seen at approximately 3a on September 10, 1995 and was found approximately 6 hours later in the Vermillion River close to I-10. While the cause of death was drowning, he had injuries consistent with a beating.  www.mysteriesofthebayou.com Full Transcript Below  Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (00:03): Hello, and welcome to another episode of mysteries of the Bayou. I'm Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou got a couple of a couple other short cases to cover today. Uh, the first one is going to be, uh, Shameeka, Garnette. Uh, Shameeka was, uh, 20 years old. She was last seen October 13th, 2004. This was just a few days prior to her 21st birthday. Uh, she is from the Alexandria Louisiana rapedmy parish area. So, uh, she was last seen, seen leaving home at approximately 11:30 PM with a friend in their vehicle. Uh, the vehicle was later abandoned on Lee street on the Lee street on ramp two 49 near, uh, base road. Um, the weird thing about this case is that there wasn't any other information that I could find that talked about her friend. It sounded said the car was abandoned, but they never talked about either finding this other individual, questioning them if it was man, woman or anything about it. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (01:19): So I did feel like that was a little bit strange. The, um, so, uh, on August the 17th of 2004, about four days later, her body was found in a drainage ditch off of old Boyce road. Now, um, it's uncanny. It's the other thing that's strange about this is it's very unclear who is investigating this case. When you look at most of the coverage that this received in the media, on the internet, it was credited with repeat Sheriff's department, but, um, in contacting them for more information on the case, they expressed explicitly said that the Alexandria police department was handling it. So, um, what I did was reached out to the Alexandria police department for an open records request. And they, after talking with three or four people in that, that, uh, jurisdiction told me that, that they were not handling this case. So it's a little bit strange that neither one of these, uh, agencies and, you know, before I kind of get off on a rant, I want to make sure that I'm very clear that I'm very pro law enforcement. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (02:42): I know these guys do a great job. A lot of the times there's not much to go on. And so some of these cold cases go cold, not because there really wasn't much effort. There just wasn't much to go on. But having said that, I do believe in, I do believe in, uh, law enforcement agencies honoring the open request, open records, open, you know, information requests from the public as per the statute of the state. In this case, it's our S 40 four.one. And it lays it out in very clear what is considered, um, public information now in ongoing investigations, of course, you know, they always want to hold things back. They don't want to, uh, uh, do something to jeopardize the, uh, investigation in case they worked to arrest somebody in the future. But the reality is that, that there is still information that can be released. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (03:48): And, uh, not only did they not release it, but I really felt like, and going back to the case that we had last week with, uh, Teresa Gil crease, I really feel like that the repeat Sheriff's department was just playing games. And I actually reached out to the Louisiana attorney General's office. And of course they acted like first off, they acted like they didn't know what was going on. They said they don't represent individuals. I explained to the young lady that this was a state statute, that they are the lawyers for the state and that they should be enforcing the statutes that the legislature deems necessary to put out. So in turn, they should be making sure, and then they should be investigating when agencies aren't being transparent and aren't releasing public information as they should. But needless to say, I never heard back from the investigator, supposedly that was assigned to this through the attorney General's office. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (04:55): So it's easy to understand why families get very discouraged because of the lack of information and understand have a much better understanding. Now, a while a lot of people that I know, uh, out of the Louisiana area are very distrustful of local law enforcement and of the Louisiana government structure altogether. I have, I can officially say that I have bumped into that, excuse me. And I know exactly what they're talking about, and it's just a little bit fishy that nobody knows who's got the investigation. And, um, the other thing, I guess, I kind of feel like, you know, we are trying to help the families by putting the information out there, again, giving a different format, different listeners, whatever you might call it, but, you know, we just want to help them find the answers to these questions. So if you've got as a law enforcement agency, if you have somebody that is wanting to help you publicize a 15 year old murder unsolved murder case, I would think that they would do everything that would be possible to not only help get the coverage, but to be involved and provide some details. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (06:14): And of course they were extended an offer to be on the show and turn that down as well. So anyway, sorry for the rant. Just, uh, like I said, you know, we've kind of bumped into a little bit of problems up until this point. Nothing, nothing like this. So it's just very strange, you know, the other one is that, uh, you know, we've got the Gill crease that we covered last episode, but the other thing I saw doing a little bit more research on this is that again, this is not coming from law enforcement. I think it's coming from a family member, but they said, uh, my understanding that, uh, Shameeka Garnette and Courtney Coco were friends and we haven't covered Courtney's case yet kind of in, it's been on the, uh, it's been on the agenda to take a look at, but the, um, it has been covered a lot. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (07:16): So, you know, it's kind of a deciding factor for, you know, actually taking that case on. And hopefully it will be covered in the near future on mysteries of the Bayou. But, uh, Courtney lived in from what detail little details I have, she was from Alexandria, she was going to school. Um, and it's kind of unclear where she went missing from school or home, but they found her over in Beaumont between Beaumont and Houston and then found her car in Houston. I think so, uh, it's strange, but I think that, uh, Courtney's mother and, and Courtney's death happened, uh, four months after Shameeka. And so Courtney's mother feels very strong that they were connected in some way, just because they were friends and then just the way things happen. But again, the, from what I read the repeat Sheriff's, uh, parish Sheriff's office declined to confirm that these may or may not be related. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (08:32): Anyway, if you have any information on Shameeka Garnette, uh, last seen in August of 2004, please, uh, call both the Alexandria police department and the repeat Sheriff's office, somebody, uh, hopefully we can find somebody take that information if not get ahold of the state police and let them know that you have information, uh, regarding Shameeka Garnette, or Courtney Coco or Theresa Gill crease, uh, any of those let them know for sure. So let's move on to our next case. Um, this one is William Thomas Lyles, and he was, uh, born in 1974 in Cottonport Louisiana. The, he graduated from bunkie high school and he was found deceased on September 10th, 1995, which would have made him 21 years old. He was a sophomore in college attending the university of Southwest Louisiana, Lafayette. Um, he died in, uh, he died from drowning, but it has been considered a homicide with no suspects. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (09:57): He was found early on, early on a Sunday morning in the Vermilion river, close to interstate 10, a passer-by noticed his car was partially submerged in the water and his body was found near the car, an autopsy. You know, as I said, an autopsy showed that he was a victim of drowning, but his cause of death may have been due to head injuries that were consistent with the beading. Now, uh, detectives, uh, said that they believed that his car and his body did not go into the river at the same time. The, um, witnesses had reported, uh, talking to William sometime between around 3:00 AM on Sunday morning. So there's a gap between those people that said they talked to him at 3:00 AM and him being found around 9:00 AM on September 10th. Uh, sad thing is that his mother Sharon K rentals passed away in 2012, never knowing the truth about what happened to her son. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (11:12): So again, uh, reached out to the Lafayette police department, the, uh, parish Sheriff's office said that the, uh, city police was handling it, of course never heard back from them. I think there again, there were some other red tape that they didn't want to supply the information over the internet. They wanted somebody to either come in or some kind of a deal like that. But anyway, both of these, again, uh, you know, William Thomas Lyles, this has been since 1995. So, uh, going on, uh, 25 years or just past 25 years, it would be great if we could get some information again, reached, tried to reach out to some family members and did not have any, uh, any luck in getting a hold of them, or they didn't want to speak with us either way. But if you know a family member, if you are a family member, if you're a friend, somebody that may have gone to school with either one of them, uh, you know, we, again, would be interested in speaking I'm with you to try to gain a little bit more clarity on the information surrounding the time leading up to the deaths. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (12:32): I'm sure there, uh, you know, there may have not have been anybody else that witnessed it, but again, if we could build the puzzle of it, of the, uh huh. You know, the timeframe and the events that led up to both of these deaths. Yeah. We may be able to, uh, you know, at least provide law enforcement with some other clues where they can continue in the investigation. So anyway, uh, first one Shameeka Garnette last seen, uh, August, 2004 out of Alexandria, Louisiana, or repeat, uh, parish. And again, she was found in a drainage ditch off of old Boyce road. She left home at approximately 11:30 PM with a friend in the friend's vehicle and not much other information on that. So if you can help shed some light on that, please give them a call. The second one again, William Thomas Lyles. This is from 1995, uh, found in the Vermilion river. Roy with Mysteries of The Bayou (13:39): He was a student at the university of Southwest Louisiana off yet. Um, it did look like that. He probably, I had been in a fight or just beaten, uh, prior to being thrown into the river where his car was submerged as well. Like I said, D there were witnesses that said that they had talked to him at 3:00 AM in the morning, but there's a six hour gap between 3:00 AM and 9:00 PM 9:00 AM when he was found. Uh, again, this is out of, uh, Lafayette, fairly certain the Lafayette police department is handling it. But if you have information, either reach out to Lafayette police, or you can reach out to the Lafayette parish Sheriff's office that is going to do it for this episode, I've got a couple more cases putting together for our next, the one. Um, again, you can find us@wwwdotmysteriesofthebayou.com. Of course we are on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and also on, uh, have a YouTube channel where you can go actually see the, the episodes as they've been videoed. So if you have any case submissions, please, uh, email those to me@Roy with Mysteries of The Bayouatmysteriesofthebayou.com calm, or you can reach out through any one of the social media channels. Be glad to take a look again, if you or a family member know a family member or friend of Shameeka Garnette, William Laos would be interested in speaking with you about that and run a special episode with whatever information that you could provide until next time, take care of yourself, please.  

Personal Training or Group Workouts What works best for you? with Mark Greenwood I've had a passion for helping others live a healthy lifestyle for a long time.   I began as a Physical Education Teacher  21 years ago.  I have a tremendous opportunity to help lead kids toward an active, healthy lifestyle.  Around 17 years ago, I  decided to share my love of exercise and fitness with adults who struggled to do it on their own. From this came NLFF - New Life Family Fitness. I've seen and participated in all kinds of exercise programs and workouts.  My goal is to provide a way to help improve families' health and fitness but to do it in a way that is family-friendly, fun, and impactful. There is nothing quite like the satisfaction of seeing individuals begin that "new life" of health and fitness, individually and with their families. www.newlifefamilyfitness.com www.feedingfatty.com Full Transcript Below  Roy (00:01): Hello, and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty. I'm Roy I'm. Terry. We've got another great guest today. Well, first off you can find us at www dot feeding, fatty.com, uh, on, uh, Twitter, uh, C at feeding fatty pod, and we're on Instagram as well as Facebook. We have a group, so join us there. Uh, today we have a fantastic guest. I think I've known him probably about 10 years now, Mark Greenwood with new life family fitness. And a reason we got Mark on here is, well, not only is he an awesome trainer. He trained me for a long time, but he has gotten, uh, he got into the boot camps and then they did a reboot last year to where they focus on family, uh, family workouts. And I think it's in a boot camp type setting where they're out of a gym, but also, um, Mark is a fabulous trainer that, um, you know, the, he's not one of those guys that will stand out machine and count reps while you're doing, let me, I actually mixes up all the workouts, which makes it it's interesting fun, but it works, uh, your entire body, not just, uh, you know, one thing at a time. Roy (01:18): So, uh, Mark welcome and thanks for taking time to be with us today. Mark (01:23): Uh, appreciate it, Roy Terry, thanks for having me on. It's great to be here. Yeah. Roy (01:28): Just, uh, I'll let you tell, tell the history, but basically you've been, uh, uh, uh, physical ed teacher in our local school district for approximately 23 years. And, um, you know, it kind of tells how you invol evolved into the, uh, you know, I know that you were an athlete in high school and college and then kind of evolved into the personal training aspect. Mark (01:52): Yeah. Um, absolutely. I always enjoyed sports, uh, growing up and, uh, uh, as big football guy all through high school and ended up, uh, playing in college and just, uh, was always working out anyway for that. And, uh, once, uh, that was over with my football career, I just, uh, uh, that's when I moved to moved down here to Fort worth and, and, uh, really didn't know too many people. So I spent a lot of time in the gym and continue to work out and just always love exercising and just, uh, uh, feeling good from, uh, trying to stay in shape. And, and, uh, so I spent a lot of time in the gym and then I met my wife and she thought, uh, um, I might make a good trainer, just, uh, I guess, cause it looked like I knew what I was doing. Mark (02:43): And so through her encouragement, uh, I was like, okay, well we'll try it out. Then I just fell in love with it. After that it was kind of a, um, or then again, going back to my physical education career, a kind of, uh, was a unique perspective of seeing the kids that I deal with and then seeing adults that struggled, uh, with their health and trying to kind of close that gap so that, uh, at school I'm trying to, uh, get the kids prepared to take care of themselves and keep themselves healthy, but then try to work with the adults at some, somewhere along the way, just kind of, uh, it slipped away or maybe they had a bad experience when they're younger or whatever it might've been, but to just try to, to bridge that gap, um, between the two. So, uh, I, but I just fell in love with it and fell in love with, uh, just, just telling other people about, um, the benefits of it. Mark (03:47): Um, uh, I always get excited to see people improve and, and to, to reach their goals and stuff. So, uh, but yeah, I just fell in love with it and it's, uh, and the rest is history. So, um, it's evolved, it's evolved over the years, um, in just keeping it kind of keep changing with the times and, but, uh, the, the, the people out there that, that, that struggle and need help, um, it's always the same. Um, you're still helping them, uh, reach, go down that path where they reach their goals and feel better about themselves. So, um, yeah, and the rest is history. That's where we are today. Roy (04:30): Yeah. And what would we do? We'd be lost souls if we didn't have good women behind us, I can say that for sure, for some brownie points here. And she reminds me all the time. That is to say you've been personal training for what'd you say 18, 18 years. Is that what you're telling me? Mark (04:53): 18 years, 18 years. Um, I started to actually, she pushed me towards it, um, before we got married. Um, and then I worked in a corporate setting, a corporate gym for three years and, uh, just got to the point where I felt like, um, what they were charging people, uh, was a little ridiculous in that I could go and help people on my own, uh, by making it, uh, um, simple, just go to their houses and make it cheaper on them and be able to connect with them better and give, give them the convenience of doing it on your own homes. And it just seemed like, uh, such a better situation to be able to help people like that and make it easier on them, um, to get that help, uh, then it was in the, uh, corporate GM setting. So yeah. Roy (05:54): And I can tell you from experience that the, that you don't feel like working out, he, he kept knocking until he finally answered the door. He wouldn't just go away Mark (06:06): And, you know, and that's, that's how it is for so many people. Um, it's tough, it's tough to stay motivated, but when you got somebody knocking on your door, you got to get up and you got to do it. Terry (06:17): Yeah. If you rest just for a minute, I mean, it turns into, you know, a couple of days and then it's like, Oh my gosh, it's been a week or two before you realize that you haven't been working on your fitness and it's like, ah, it's hard, hard to get back into it. Mark (06:37): Absolutely. And, uh, and it was interesting being at a, at a, at a corporate gym. Uh, you know, you had the people that you work with personally one-on-one, but then you also get to, you get to see all the other members they come in and just work out on their own. Um, you know, it was a yearly cycle where, uh, you would see some coming in and after a month, month and a half, and you never saw them again. And, uh, whether it was through just getting discouraged or not knowing what to do, uh, whatever it was that it was just a cycle every year. And you could get to see so many examples of, of just the membership coming in and just not really knowing what to do and they get discouraged and quit. And so, uh, yeah, just to have that person knocking on your door and you don't have to think about it, you just do what they tell you to do and, uh, Terry (07:30): And answered the door, hope the answer to that. Roy (07:34): Well, and the other cool thing is that, um, you know, I never knew what you were bringing over. I mean, every time, every time he'd come over, it'd be like getting unloading stuff looked like he had had a rummage sale in the back of his car and he was bringing all this stuff in and then, and stuff he made me do. And I always tell the story. I can't remember exactly what we use, but I think it was like a S uh, I think it was like one of those snow disc. And he tied a rope around my waist and made me pull them around the backyard made laps around the backyard. But, you know, that's the, um, you know, I think that's the important aspect of finding some, uh, personal trend. And I don't want to knock the big box stores because I'm sure they've got some awesome people, but there's a difference between a personal trainer and a guy that just sets their accountant, uh, reps on a machine. Roy (08:27): And, uh, I'll, I'll let you explain that, but you know, like the going out in the yard and doing things, and I know that you had that, um, it was like a half of a ball with, uh, uh, a platform on it that you could stand on the platform or turn it over and stand on the ball, but doing those kinds of things. Well, let's go back to the weight machine. They typically work one muscle or one group of muscles where, when you use these other devices that you implore that, uh, you're not only getting a core, but it's working out a bunch of other muscle groups as well. Could you kind of talk about that a little bit more? Mark (09:09): Yeah. Um, it's interesting. You talk about the edge. Um, I, uh, heard this quote a few years back and, uh, somebody said that people don't stop playing because they get old, they get old because they stop playing and, uh, yeah. And, and it goes for any age, um, you know, if you just keep doing the same stuff over and over, you get bored with it. And, um, you're probably not going to continue doing it. So, uh, but absolutely, um, having somebody there that, um, is going to just keep you guessing, uh, when, when they come in and I'll be totally honest with you there, uh, lots of great trainers out there. Uh, lots of great equipment out there. Um, but I, yeah, I've, I've been around a lot of trainers that I was just like, what are you doing? You're standing there watching them. And you're counting just like you said, and the retention rate was not very good and the results weren't very good. Mark (10:19): So, yeah, just, just to, uh, and again, I, I kind of go back to my teaching. I, uh, right now I'm teaching my students in elementary school to use, uh, much of that equipment that they're using now in the gym, so that they will understand how to use it safely. And bill went to, uh, to work with that stuff as they become adults. Um, but just to, to take things like that and make it unique and make it different because, you know, anybody can, uh, you know, I just had to do an, a machine all the time. You can go buy the machine yourself and do it. Um, but to change it up and give you, uh, different things where, um, you're always surprised which you're going to do that day. And of course, you know, as a personal trainer, um, we know that your body's also going to get used to doing the same stuff over and over. Mark (11:13): And when it does adapt to it, uh, then you're not going to get the results that you, you should be getting. So by changing it up all the time, then you're going to continue to get results. Your body's not going to get used to it. You're not going to get used to it. And, uh, and you're gonna more likely stay with it. So, yeah. And then there's the, the safety aspect of it. Um, having us to, to sit there and watch every movement and make sure, you know, you're, you know, if you're doing squats and your knees are an inch or two out past your toes, uh, that's a problem. And if I'm not there watching you and telling you that, Hey, you need to make sure that your knees aren't going forward. You have to going backwards. That person, you ended up with knee problems, you know, in a year or two. Mark (12:00): So, uh, it's, uh, it's about helping them do it safely. It's about making it fun and enjoyable. And again, that's a, another thing that I take from my teaching is I have 50, 60 kids at once. I've got to keep them engaged and make it fun so that they're actually exercising, but they don't feel like they're exercising. Right. And that's what I tried to do in my workouts is just to try to keep it fresh, keep it fun, do different things, whether it's games, whatever it is to keep that person, you know, not so focused on, Oh my gosh, this is so hard. I'm dying. You know, when is this over? But, you know, Whoa, where'd all the time to go. And I just got a great workout and using all the different, uh, equipment, um, as a great way to, to do more functional training also just to get your body, uh, strengthened and enabled to do everyday activities, not just, you know, he's going to go out and squat during, during the job, most of us that aren't going to do that. Uh, but to, to be able to do functional movements where that's going to help you, when you go out on the weekends and try to do things, would you friends or family, um, and you're going to feel better doing it and stronger doing it. Uh, those are the types of things that are going to get people, um, not just closer to their goals, but feeling better and feeling better about life and getting out and doing stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. Roy (13:31): You bring up a good point too, that I tend to kind of harp on this is that a form form is important versus wait. You know, we, we go to a gym and we see these guys that, you know, they load up their weight stack and they're grunting and grown in. And, uh, you know, like a lap pool, you know, where you got the bar over your head and you're pulling it straight down, but they, you know, they jumped back with their back with their legs are just doing all this crazy stuff that, well, first off you get hurt doing that. But second off, you're not working the muscles that you really want to be working. So, uh, you know, that's the other great thing about having somebody like Mark watching you is that, you know, when you get a little bit out of shape, he can correct you where not only you don't hurt yourself, but you, you know, you get the results that you're really looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the other thing, Oh, no, go ahead. I'm sorry. Mark (14:27): Well, I mean, and it's just, it, it just makes it more efficient too, because, um, it's, it's like I tell everybody, I would rather, you do five great pushups with good form than 50 bad ones. Right. Cause those five correct ones are going to help you. And, you know, and, and then you say that extra five minutes that you had to use to do all those extra wrong ones you've already gotten done, and you've worked at the muscle correctly, safely, and you got more out of it than doing a bunch of reps with bad form. So yeah, it's just, you know, you're talking about saving time in the gym. A lot of people don't have the time, uh, to go spend an hour and a half. Um, but some people will because they, they spend that extra time doing high reps the wrong way, instead of just getting it in there, being efficient with what you're doing and safe with what you're doing and getting it done. Roy (15:20): Yeah. And the other, uh, kind of to that point, another thing I feel like that you taught me was to, uh, you know, make every minute count. So especially today with the proliferation of smartphones is, you know, somebody will do a rep and they'll sit there and play or text or do whatever they do for 10 minutes in between reps. But I remember that, um, you know, what one of our keys was that, you know, when we were on the machine, uh, hit the machine, but when you're done with your reps, get up and do step ups on the little platforms or, uh, jog in place or walk or do something to keep your heart rate up. Mark (16:04): Yeah, absolutely. Uh, you get, you get the benefit of, of, you know, a lot of different things. And there's so many studies now that, uh, that show how beneficial, um, hit workouts are high intensity interval training. Uh, and that's the whole concept though, is just, uh, short rest breaks, uh, very short rest breaks. And just, you just keeping it going, right. The high intensity levels, you get more out of it, you get it over with faster. Um, but yeah, um, just, just to stay moving, so you've got the cardiovascular benefit and then you're still, um, and if you, if it's planned out, I know the benefit of having a personal trainer, if you, if it's planned out right, then, then, uh, if you just get finished with the lower body exercise, then while it's resting, you can move to, uh, an upper body exercise. And so you still have the energy to be able to do it, um, as well as you want to, and as vigorously as you want to. Um, and, and just keep on going, you keep on going keep that heart rate up and, and you get so much more done in such a more of an efficient workout, uh, by doing that than just sitting around doing one, uh, exercise for one muscle group and then failing your phone. Absolutely. Terry (17:25): So Mark new life, family fitness is the name of your company. Do y'all have, what kind of services do you have? Do you offer still individualized personal training group training? Um, the family training. Can you tell us a little bit about those? Mark (17:44): Yeah, so we, uh, we started off with in-home personal training. Um, we still do that, um, with the COVID-19 of course it's changed around a little bit. Um, um, but we still do that. Uh, I still have one or two, uh, clients that I go to their home. Um, but with the COVID-19 is also, uh, I think with everybody it's, we've had to learn new avenues of, uh, training and we can't go to their homes. So, uh, we've uh, as a lot of other people have we've started doing it virtually. Um, so I have, uh, another client that I, I train, um, just over zoom calls, um, and Roy (18:32): Wow. Technology technology is awesome. I never thought about doing that makes everything so convenient, isn't it? Mark (18:38): Yeah. Uh, and that was huge for me in the old big grand scheme of things, because, you know, I always have family time in the back of my mind. Um, but that allows me to be home and then just jump on there and do a workout with someone. And then I'm brought back to where I was at home with my family. So that's been a big blessing, you know, just to, to, to learn this new technology. And, uh, so I, uh, but I still do a one-on-one training, uh, virtually still go to homes and, um, and work with them. Um, then also my group camp right now is virtual. So, um, and it's been, uh, at the beginning of the quarantine. Um, I, again, I had to learn all this technology. I didn't know this stuff was out there. I'd never heard of her zoom and never heard of bugle needs, uh, any of this stuff. Mark (19:33): So yeah, I was actually, I had to learn it for my teaching. And then, uh, once I learned it for that, I was like, Hey, you know, this is all right. And so, um, my family, uh, fit campus, I call it now fit, fit families in training camp, um, started out outdoors. So, uh, once we got hit with the corn G and everything, where you went to the zoom and they just love it, they love being at home and being able to do exercise and run to the bathroom when they need to, or, uh, lay underneath the fan and sweat if they need to. Um, so that's been really nice and, uh, and it's actually, uh, business, uh, through our fit camp is it's picked up really, uh, really quickly last month, month and a half. Um, just people that, uh, are kind of stuck at home or don't want to go to the gyms yet. Um, they're looking for ways to, to stay fit and healthy and not have to go out amongst all the stuff out there. Um, and, and, and we're able to do that for them. So, um, yeah. Uh, that's, that's, we, we still do a small group training, um, and this a little bit of everything. Um, but we're, we're really trying to focus, uh, more and more on just giving these, uh, these families to, to try to get healthier together. So we do still doing a little bit of, uh, of it all. Roy (21:07): Yeah. And that may actually be something that stays with us after the fact is the, uh, the group over zoom, I guess they, you know, like the Peloton or however you say that word that I think that's kind of the way they do it. They have a instructor somewhere else. And so, uh, yeah, that's kind of interesting that some things that we've learned through COVID may actually stick around, you know, even after it's gone, it may be more efficient for a lot of people to not have to get out and drive to, you know, wherever the gym is or to the place where the group is. So the virtual would be a great answer for that. Terry (21:45): Yeah. I was going to ask Mark. I was going to ask you, do your kids ever get involved in your classes? I mean, do they come and try to take over and be in charge? Are they the teacher? Mark (22:01): Uh, they would actually come up there and they would work out with them, um, because my, you know, my kids were born Jean also. Um, but they're also homeschooled. Um, so, uh, yeah, they would come along with me or ride with me up there and he'd get out there with everybody else. And, uh, a lot of times, uh, you know, I would look up and they would be, you know, racing other kids around, um, and you know, things like that and doing, doing the exercises that, uh, that all the grownups are doing because it's, it's, um, planned out where the kids can do the same thing, the same exercises, everything that the parents can. So, um, Oh yeah, they got out there with it and, uh, um, it has been a little bit tougher on them since we started going virtual. Um, because, uh, we just, we just moved a couple months ago from a smaller space, so they had a tough time getting in there and doing it, but, uh, that was, that was a lot of their activity during the day was because they couldn't get outside a lot, so they would jump on there with us and, um, and just get after it in the floor. Mark (23:11): So, Roy (23:13): Yeah. So Tom, I know that, uh, you know, it's probably been, um, ah, should, I was trying to think back, think about six, seven, eight years. You kind of started into the group fitness and, uh, you know, I see these guys a lot though, have a, a group, some of them meet on the side of the road or in front of a restaurant or whatever. So what is the benefit or what, I guess, what is the difference for the participant that versus going to a gym and I guess just kind of a compare and contrast, you know, what they come for and what they get out of it. Mark (23:53): Yeah. You know, and I think it all depends on the individual. Some people just don't, they're not in the group stuff, they're not in their to group workouts. Um, they, they feel like, um, they don't want other people to watch them work out, uh, for, you know, for whatever reason. Um, and that's fine. Um, you know, a lot of times those are the people that want me to come to their home and that's great, but, um, you know, for, for that comradery, that, that, that group feel, um, you know, I've always been, been blessed with just a great, bootcamper a group fitness members where they're all very encouraging. Um, and when they get out there that, you know, 95% of them all had the same goals, uh, and, and they get out there and, and, you know, I, I'm not a big yeller and you know, this, I I'll push you and work you hard, but I'm not a big yeller in your face, yeller. Mark (24:51): Um, and a lot of times, you know, the, their, their peers are the ones out there cheering them on because I get tired of listening to me sometimes, you know, I'm sitting there, John, keep your act, keep your apps, uh, you know, make sure you're doing this and do this. And, and, you know, and they're there, the person working out in beside them is, come on, come on. And you, can, you got this? You know, and, and for me, this witnessing is just, uh, something special just to watch that, that group of people that didn't even know each other before they came in and became a part of this, they're, they're pushing each other, they're encouraging each other, the clap and for each other. Um, and, and you just, you know, it's just something about that, uh, to have people that are on the same mission you are to be out there sweating and grunting and talking trash to the Mark. Mark (25:47): And just to have other people that are, are having to work as hard as you are to drive, to do something about their health. And this has been such a blessing to sit there and see, you know, when, uh, sometimes during, uh, oxygen breaks is I call it anybody, uh, anybody have, uh, some results to share with us or anything, and some biology, you know, pop up and say, well, my, my, uh, pants had a little bit baggier this week and everybody just starts cheering. It's amazing. It's just amazing just to sit there and be a part of that, just to see everybody, uh, you know, the rejoice and, and people, uh, you know, improving their health and getting results and just feeling better. And, and, uh, and that's what makes it so, uh, nice. What I do is, is just being a part of that, you know, it's very to see people that, um, um, just get out there and work hard with others, just, uh, you know, towards the same goal. So yeah, it's, it's pretty awesome, but it's, um, and everybody's not into it, but the ones that are just, you know, they, they feed off of that. Terry (27:00): That's pretty cool that you can carry that over and into, you know, from, be in your you're the PE teacher at school and having all those kids, and then the families and the groups of adults, uh, all of it's encompassing and being able to, uh, see all that encouragement and acknowledgement. And that just must be really rewarding. Mark (27:28): Yeah, it is. And, you know, uh, I always try to tie everything I do together, and that's one of those things where, uh, again, you know, uh, you get old because you stop playing and even adults like to play. And when they get out there with their kids, you know, we're playing and we're running around and they're, they're breathing hard and their heart is pumping out of their chest, but they're not really worried about it because they're playing with their kids or they're just having fun, you know? Uh, I always tell my students, if you, if you walk out of here with a smile on your face and we're good, and, and for them to, to come in with their families, or just by themselves and work hard and sweat and do what they need to do, but they, you know, at the end, they're smiling and, um, then, then it's all worth it for me. And I tell them it's all gonna be worth it for them too. So, Roy (28:20): Yeah. And that's one aspect of the, um, you know, of the, uh, group that I just didn't think about was that comradery. And, uh, almost like a, you know, a team sport, football, baseball, basketball that, you know, you're always there to pick up each other and encourage him. And, uh, you know, there's always days we don't want to be there, but we show up anyway. So it's always good to have somebody to kind of help you get through that. Terry (28:44): Yeah. Accountability for sure. You know, that, that seems to help a lot. Roy (28:51): Yeah. I guess also too, you probably have a lot of, uh, friends that come kind of partner up, like to, for the accountability issue to make sure, make sure they both show up every time. Mark (29:03): Yeah, we do. And we have even, yeah, just, uh, family members or, uh, yeah. People that know each other from church or, you know, whatever. Yeah. They, uh, and that even makes it makes it funnier sometimes because they're the ones that gets out there and talks trash to each other, each other and, and, and challenges each other. And I'm all for it. I ain't heard that, Hey, Nope, keep it clean and talk, track each other and make each other work. Um, and they just, they just love it. Um, it's, it's really cool to watch. Yeah. Roy (29:37): Yeah. And then, uh, you know, you've touched on it a little bit, but transition that y'all made last year was kind of focus focusing on the families. And, uh, so how, how is that dynamic, I guess, you know, mom, dad, the kids, and, uh, you know, we've talked a little bit about it that unfortunately the, um, you know, unhealthy children, they learn that at home from unhealthy adults. So I guess this is nice because it gives everybody a chance to get healthy, but also support each other and spend that family time. I mean, it's like instead of me going to the gym and doing my thing and the kids running down the street, this is a good, uh, it's a good bonding experience. Mark (30:22): Yeah. Um, and, and that was that, that was one of the things we talked about when crystal came with the idea is we have a lot of people over the years. It just couldn't work out because they didn't have any place for their kids to get to go or anything for them to do or any, anybody to watch him. So they couldn't go work out anywhere because of their kids. And so that was also another thing that we talked about. She came on a deal was, you know, there, they just bring them with them. No excuse. So you remove that excuse from it. But, um, yeah. You know, um, it's not perfect. There's, there's families that start out on there and their kids, um, um, you know, that they, the kids struggle a little bit and sometimes the kids don't want to work out that day with them. Mark (31:11): Um, but I just, I just keep reminding the parents that, you know, what the, the best thing that you can do is just be a good example for the kids. You know, if they're struggling with it and maybe, you know, sometimes kids are lazy and that's just how it is, and that's how kids are, and that's okay. Uh, but if you, if you start taking care of your own health, if you make your own health important to you, then they're going to see that. And you're going to set that example for them. And when you start setting that example and you start feeling better and you start losing a little weight or, or whatever it is, and, and, and you start feeling better, better about yourself, then all of a sudden now you're, you're making better choices at what you fix for your family at dinner time and things like that. It's just going to run in to the rest of the family. But sometimes it's just a matter of starting with yourself first and, uh, being a good, good example for the kids. You know, it's not always perfect. They don't always just get on there. And, Oh my gosh, they just all working hard and the kids are smiling and the parents are smiling and everything's just great. It's a struggle for some of them. And it's because they've been in that rut for so many years. Right. Roy (32:28): Right. Well, not just like me, even on those days when I just make it to the gym, I may not work out as hard as I wished I had, but I always look at flip side is if, at least if I'm there doing nothing, I'm not at home sitting on the couch, you know, eating a bag of chips or candy bar. So there's always that benefit to just getting out there, no matter how things go. Uh, and if you do, if you're consistent and you do it, it finally will come around. Mark (32:59): Yeah. It's, it's tough for some of them, but, uh, you know, th they'll as they get a little bit older, you know, they'll, they'll watch you and they'll, they'll see what you do. And, uh, you know, they'll pick up things. So they get things, whether it's, you know, the little habits that you, you change or just, uh, you know, you started taking a walk more throughout the day. Just things like that. And honestly, I'd been a teacher, a physical educator that those are the things that we're trying to teach them and, and hope that they, uh, carry throughout their, their teenage and in as grownups. Uh, but it doesn't always happen. Right. So, um, yeah. Roy (33:44): Well, Mark, we appreciate your time today. Um, if you wouldn't mind, tell us one tool or one, uh, habit, one ritual that you have every day, either in your work or personal life that you just don't think that you could live without. Mark (34:02): Uh, honestly I tell ya, um, I, I have, I have a wonderful family and probably I'd probably say it was just my wife, my wife prays for me every day and encouraged me and pushes me sometimes, but I don't want to be pushed. Um, and, and if I don't think something's working, she just pushes me even more. And so just, just having to her and, uh, uh, praying for me all the time and encouraging me and, and, and always, you know, always just try to make sure that, that I spend as much time as I can with my family. Um, and, and balancing that out, uh, with, with the business and with my career and everything. Um, that that's just the most important thing that keeps me going. Um, so when I get home every day, I got them and their support. So, yeah, Roy (34:56): And that's, uh, even though I would say it, if she wasn't sitting across the table from me here, that, you know, it's, uh, it's, it's good to have that support system at home. It goes both ways. Hopefully we can, uh, support these ladies the way that they support us. But, um, if you don't mind tell us basically, you know, who, who your client is, what you can do for them. And then, uh, you know, tell everybody how that they can reach out and get ahold of you. Mark (35:26): Okay. Uh, well, uh, we, we work with pretty much all fitness levels. Um, if you haven't done it for a while or ever, we're going to work with you, uh, we work with everybody at their own fitness level. Um, it doesn't matter if you're all in the same, uh, fit camp or group camp with a bunch of people that have been doing it for a while. We're gonna, we're gonna make it work for you. Um, so, uh, also have a couple of senior clients, uh, right now I have one is 86. Oh my God. Awesome. Yeah. And he just re and he's just recovered from COVID. So, uh, you know, people can tell me all they want, but I believe part of it is just because he, he exercise and, uh, was probably in a little bit better safe than most 86 year old. So, um, Oh, sure. Mark (36:21): Yeah. Yeah. We, we, we work with seniors, uh, kids just pretty much any anybody, uh, at any fitness level. Um, and, uh, you can reach us a new life, family, fitness.com and check us out there. Uh, give us a call, send us an email, whatever we are on, uh, Instagram and Facebook, and look us up on there. And, uh, again, the, the beauty of this, uh, I, don't not to save the beauty of the COVID-19 this time in our lives. Uh, you know, last year somebody live in another state, well, you, weren't going to be training with me, but that's, that's not a problem now. So, uh, you can do it from anywhere and that's, uh, that's been a big thing just that nobody has any excuses anymore. Right. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just get it going, but, uh, yeah, give us a holler and, uh, and, uh, we'll get you towards your goals, whether it's losing weight or losing inches, or just maintaining a, if it's a senior know, a lot of times they're just wanting to improve that bone density and keep up their strings so they can get around. Um, so, uh, whatever it is, we'll, uh, we try to get you there. Roy (37:47): All right. Well, Mark, again, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom with us. Uh, you can find us at www dot feeding, fatty.com. We're on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, and Google play, and be sure and share with your friends. We'd also love to have you join the Facebook group, try to start a conversation there and, uh, know we just want to help everybody get healthy. Uh, we, you know, we want to take that balanced approach, no gimmicks. We want this to be a, you know, a lifelong changing, uh, changing of a lifestyle, basically. So if you have Instagram as well as Twitter as well. Yep, yep, yep. Yep. Also Instagram. That's my favorite. All right. Well until next time everybody I'm Roy and Terry. Thanks, Mark. Mark (38:41): You're welcome.

In this episode [FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW] of Boca Behind the Scenes, Public Relations Specialist, Anne Marie Van Casteren and Communications Manager, Chrissy Gibson, chat about all the different facilities, parks, programs and resources for those in the community with special needs and abilities. Listeners, will also have the chance to listen to Recreation Services Director, Michael Kalvort and Community Events Specialist for Sugar Sand Park, Stacee Lanze, regarding new ADA accessible updates and enhancements the City's parks and about the upcoming Especially for Kids event coming up May 18. For more information, check out the City's website by visiting www.myboca.us.CONNECT WITH US

S.F. Lighthouse is Creating Opportunities While Enchanted Hills Camp Rises from the Ashes – Meet Will Butler – Tactile Maps Anyone?   Full Transcript Below   It was an honor to meet up with Will Butler, the Communications Director of the San Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired. Will gives us an update on the Enchanted Hills Camp located in Napa and people are returning and continuing the tradition that started over 6 decades ago. Jeff talks about the wood working classes he will be teaching along side of George Wurtzel and Brian Buhrow for beginers and a second session for advance wood workers. Scott Blanks gives us a review of the Tactile Maps and how they can provide added information when mind mapping one’s location. The Lighthouse of SF will soon make it possible to order your maps on-line. Will tells us how to subscribe and find out more about theSan Francisco Lighthouse for the Blind and visually Impairedand Enchanted Hills Camp. You can subscribed to their newsletterand follow them on Facebookand follow on Twitter@Lighthouse-SF You can find out more about Aira on the web at www.Aira.io Image of the Aira Logo Your Life, Your Schedule, Right Now. If you want to know more about Aira and the services they provide, check them out on the web and become an Aira Explorer today! www.Aira.io Using augmented reality, Aira connects people who are blind or low vision to a trained professional agent who is dedicated to further enhancing their everyday experience – completely hands-free assistance at the touch of a button. Thank you for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store. Get the Free blind Abilities App on the Google Play Store Full Transcript: S.F. Lighthouse is Creating Opportunities While Enchanted Hills Camp Rises from the Ashes – Meet Will Butler – Tactile Maps Anyone?   Speaker 1: Welcome to the Blind Abilities coverage of the 2018 National Federation of the Blind convention, sponsored by Aira.   Speaker 2: Aira, your life, your schedule, right now. Jeff Thompson: In this coverage of the National Federation of the Blind 2018 Orlando, Florida, I meet up with a virtual friend of mine. I've conversed with him many times. His name is Will Butler. He's the Communications Director at the San Francisco LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired. Such a great opportunity at these conventions to meet up with people you've only virtually met. I was really honored to be able to finally meet up with Will Butler and talk about the San Francisco LightHouse, the opportunities and events that they've created out in San Francisco not only for California but people worldwide. Jeff Thompson: I also met up with Scott Blanks, and he gave a little description of the TMAPS that they were giving away at the convention.   Speaker 2: Aira, a description of life. Jeff Thompson: Welcome to Blind Abilities, I'm Jeff Thompson. I'm down here in Orlando, Florida Convention 2018 and I came across the San Francisco LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired booth. And I ran into Will Butler and he's the Communications Director. How you doing, Will? Will Butler: Excellent, how you doing, Jeff? Jeff Thompson: I'm doing good thank you. Can you- Will Butler: Finally face to face with the great Jeff Thompson. Jeff Thompson: I don't know about the great part but I'm here and it's really exciting to be here. It's really hot down here. Will Butler: Well, you got to wear a sweater inside because you're going to freeze inside. Jeff Thompson: Oh yeah. Well in the northern part of California it doesn't really get this hot right? Will Butler: Every year it's hotter and hotter up there. But where it really gets hot is out in Napa. Jeff Thompson: Yes up on Veeder Mountain where the Enchanted Hills camp part of San Francisco LightHouse is. Will Butler: That's right, yeah. We have our camp out there in the hills of the Wine country and it's, gosh, I don't know in its 68th year I think. And it almost was its last year earlier this fall because the fires that came through Northern California came and ripped through the area and tore down about half of our camp, including all the cabins where the kids stay every year. So we are just barely recovered from that and we're lucky enough to be able to launch a camp season again for June. Jeff Thompson: Yeah. The doors are open up there. Will Butler: They are, they are indeed and there are a lot of blind kids and families who are really happy about that because they didn't want to miss a year. Some people haven't missed a year in generations. Jeff Thompson: Oh, that's awesome. All the way from Africa. There's people coming from Poland, people from Australia are volunteering up there. Will Butler: I hear you're going to spend a couple of weeks up there. Jeff Thompson: I'll be up there with George Wurtzel. Woodworking for the blind, they hold their annual event and Enchanting Hills does such a great job of that where we go up there, we have a beginners class and then we have a advanced woodworkers class. I'll be up there from the 6th starting with the music camp that you guys run up there. That's great opportunity for people to be- Will Butler: Playing some music, running some power tools. You're a pretty hands on guy, huh? Jeff Thompson: I worked at Blind Incorporated when I went there as a student they gave me a click ruler and I was able to figure it out. It all came back to me so fast that they hired me to teach it and from there on it's just been fun to do stuff that people really didn't expect me to do. Will Butler: What do you think about maps? Jeff Thompson: Maps? That's what you guys got here, right? Will Butler: Yeah. Do you want to see what we got here at the table? Jeff Thompson: Sure. Will Butler: Here, come on over. Okay so what we got here what we're showing off at the convention in particular this year is TMAP. And TMAP are our Tactile Map Automated Production. One of the big things we do at LightHouse in the map lab is we make maps for people to order. Like someone would say, "I need a map of my neighborhood, I need a map of my whatever." And we'll turn it into a tactile graphic that they can feel and use to get around. But we figured that's not really super scalable because it's just our time and resources. So we created software that actually allows you to type an address in and print with an embosser auto print a tactile map on demand. Jeff Thompson: Really. Will Butler: Yeah. In some ways if you have access to an embosser it's like the Google Maps experience to be able to like just type an address in and get an aerial view of the area around your point of interest. And really get to know an area by exploring rather than turn by turn directions. Jeff Thompson: Well, I remember when I first lost some eyesight and I was trying to draw these mental maps. I always wanted something that I could put my finger on and actually get an idea of what the big picture looks like. Will Butler: Yeah. Yeah, well I don't know, do you want a map of your neighborhood? They're free. Jeff Thompson: Sure. Will Butler: Okay. Jeff Thompson: So this is something that you offer all in San Francisco as well? Will Butler: Yeah and actually pretty soon you're going to be buy these on demand maps from us. You'll be able to just go on the LightHouse website, type your address in and we'll send you a map wherever you want. Jeff Thompson: What website is that? Will Butler: That's lighthouse-sf.org. Jeff Thompson: That's really great. I was feeling these yesterday. I found Market Street on San Francisco on that you are here button. It was really good. So what else has San Francisco LightHouse offer to people in California? Well wait, I shouldn't say California because I've been out there three years in a row and I'm from Minnesota. Will Butler: Right, exactly. Yeah we definitely love the idea that people are starting to come from all over the country and all over the world to take advantage of the services that we offer and the fun programs that we have. We've got these dorm style short term residences now in our San Francisco building, which house 29 people at a time. And they're actually quite nice dorms. They're better than your college dorm for sure. And so people can come out and for immersion classes and week long retreats and what not. And really stay with us and kind of get immersed in whatever the program is. Will Butler: So we offer employment immersions for youth ages 16 to 24 every summer. The youth stay with us for three weeks and they get job experience in the community, in the San Francisco area. They get to go to work for a few days out of the week. They have workshops, and then culminates with a conference all together. They really get to bond over that over a period of a few weeks. And then we have also similar youth employment programming throughout the year for anyone in the Bay area or anyone who can make it out on the weekends. Jeff Thompson: And people can get that newsletter from the LightHouse. I get one once a week maybe. Will Butler: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah we affectionately call it LightHouse Lately where we just update folks on what's been going on. It's usually about four things every week. It is about our programs but it's also about things that I think would appeal to people globally in the blindness community. It's where we might give you the latest update about the Holman prize. It's where we might talk about new initiatives or accessibility related. Advancements that have been made, or projects that we've worked on. We worked on a project recently with Microsoft called Soundscape which was a really cool app that helps blind people navigate just with sound and 3D beacons. And the Holman prize, we're about to announce the winners of the Holman prize next week. Jeff Thompson: I know I'm excited. I watched the countdown. You had the I believe it was 50 and then down to the 10 plus the one. Will Butler: That's right so we have three winners just like last year. Jeff Thompson: Is that embosser? Will Butler: Yeah let's go over there and listen to that embosser.   Scott:she was really well prepared. Will Butler: What are we printing over here?   Scott: Alright. Well thanks Jeff for getting us on. We are just finishing a TMAP. Street map for someone here at the table. I'm not going to give you the whole address. This is a free giveaway that we're doing here at the convention basically is just a tactile street map. What we sell in our San Francisco store, and stop me if Will's already covered this, is a package that includes three scales of the address that you request. And not just tactile but also print. So we want to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to benefit from these maps. So you'll get those three scales, the key and an intro page that gives you a simple description of what you are about to lay your hands on or your eyes. Will Butler: Describe what the embosser just spat out for you and what you're doing?   Scott: Yeah, so the embosser is a tractor-fed embosser. And what we have is two pages. The first page is a map with the address at the top, the streets, and abbreviations at the edge of the map. And then the second page is the map key which gives you the abbreviation, the full street name and the directionality so east/west, north/south, northeast/southwest, etc. And so then I'm just going to staple it up and hand it over to the lucky person who requested it and they'll have a little piece of their world unlocked and maybe grab a little more independence because of it. Will Butler: How long did it take you to print that?   Scott: Oh, from the time we got the address to the finished product that was maybe three minutes. Jeff Thompson: Three minutes.   Scott: We mean it. On demand is the real thing. ' Speaker 6: Thank you.   Scott: Your welcome. Jeff Thompson: Thank you, Scott.   Scott: Handed it off. Will Butler: Thanks Scott. Jeff Thompson: If people want to find out more about San Francisco LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired out there in California how would they get a hold of you? Will Butler: Yeah, obviously you can just type LightHouse on Facebook and we're one of the first ones that comes up. There are other LightHouses around the country but we're the one in the Bay area. You can find Enchanted Hills Camp on Facebook. They have a very active camp related Facebook page. And you can go to our website at lighthouse-sf.org. Lighthouse-sf.org and explore everything there. If you want to learn more about TMAPs you can go to lighthousesf.org/tmap. If you want to just go directly to subscribe for our newsletter you can go to lighthouse-sf.org/subscribe. Jeff Thompson: Alright. We've been talking to Will Butler he is the Communications Director out at San Francisco LightHouse for the Blind and Visually Impaired San Francisco. Thank you very much for taking the time. Will Butler: Thank you Jeff, it's always be a dream of mine to be on your podcast. I appreciate it. Jeff Thompson: Thank you. While waiting for my map I had to ask the embosser, what kind of embosser are you using?   Speaker 7: The one we brought today that's a ViewPlus Columbia. Jeff Thompson: So you must be pretty confident that you would bring it to the convention.   Speaker 7: Yeah that's exactly why we brought it. We've been doing this grind for a while. The last few conferences we're actually doing swell papers so we were bringing PIAFs and Zychems, but those things are fragile. They don't like to travel, they don't like to be handled on the road. They break. So we tried this instead. They're inexpensive, seems to be reliable, just cranking them out.   Speaker 7: Back at the shop we're actually using a ViewPlus EmFuse which is pretty esoteric because it does the ink print as well as the braille. But those are really big units. You're not going to want to pack that up in a road case and bring it on tour. Jeff Thompson: This one seems like something that you could move around a little bit.   Speaker 7: Oh yeah, they're light, they're small. It's designed for the home pretty much.   Speaker 8: Alright Jeff, I have your map for you. Jeff Thompson: Yeah exactly. Alright.   Speaker 2: Aira, independence like never before.   [Music]  [Transition noise]  -When we share -What we see -Through each other's eyes...   [Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence]   ...We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities. Jeff Thompson: For more podcasts with a blindness perspective check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com. On Twitter @blindabilities. Download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that's two words. Or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening.      

JobInsights 7: The Job Hunt – Resources, Resumes and Strategies   Full Transcript Below   Welcome to Episode 7 of Job Insights with Serina Gilbert and Jeff Thompson. We focus on Employment, Careers, enhancing opportunities and bringing you the latest innovations from across the Vocational  Rehabilitation field to ensure your choices lead you down the career pathway that you want and succeed in gainful employment. From getting started with services, to assessments, Individual Plan for Employment (IPE) to gaining the skills to succeed and tools for success, Job Insights will be giving you tips and tricks to help your journey to employment and break down the barriers along the way. Job Insights Episode #7 is all about the Job Hunt. Serina and Jeff talk about resources, resumes, strategies and their own experiences while in the hunt for the Job you want. A couple of apps were mentioned that can help you enhance your job hunt experience: InDeed Job Searchis and app and is on the web at www.InDeed.com and offers searchable job listings with the ability to set alerts for listings in your selected fields. Career Connectis an app from the American Foundation for the Blind and has many resources that will help you navigate your pathway to the career you want. Thanks for listening! You can find out more about Job Insights on the web at BlindAbilities.comand follow Job Insights on Twitter @JobInsightsVIPSend us your feedback and suggestions by email. Thank you for listening! You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store. Get the Free blind Abilities App on the Google Play Store   Full Transcript: JobInsights 7: The Job Hunt – Resources, Resumes and Strategies   Serena Gilbert: When you're making some cold calls, I know it sounds super old school, but it's very effective. Jeff Thompson: Job Insights, a podcast to help you carve out your career pathway and enhance the opportunities for gainful employment. Serena Gilbert: Yeah, I especially love Indeed. It's an app as well as a website, it's indeed.com. Jeff Thompson: To help you navigate the employment world and give you job insights and enhance the opportunities to choose the career you want. Serena Gilbert: Somebody once told me when it comes to a resume that even Colin Powell has a one page resume and that resonated with me because I'm like, "If he can get it down to one page, surely I can." Jeff Thompson: Sometimes some job interviews or some process that you go through is just gaining experience, so you can do better at the next one. Serena Gilbert: Exactly. Jeff Thompson: You can find the Job Insights Podcast on blindabilities.com. Part of the Blind Abilities network with host Serena Gilbert and myself, Jeff Thompson, and you can contact us by email at jobinsights@blindabilities.com. Leave us some feedback or suggest some topics that we cover on Twitter @jobinsightsvip. Checkout the Job Insights Support Group on Facebook where you can learn, share, advise, and interact with the Job Insights community. Serena Gilbert: You are interviewing them as well. It might not feel like it, but you are. Jeff Thompson: Yeah, it's a two way street. Jeff Thompson: And now please welcome Serena Gilbert and Jeff Thompson with Job Insights. Serena Gilbert: When a job opened and they saw my name, they could place a face with that name and know that I took that extra step to want to be with that agency. Jeff Thompson: How are you doing, Serena? Serena Gilbert: I'm great Jeff, how are you? Jeff Thompson: I'm good, I'm getting ready for conventions coming up. Serena Gilbert: Very nice, I'm jealous, because you get to go to Orlando. Jeff Thompson: Oh, yes I did attend the National Federation of the Blind convention in Orlando 2018. It was a great time, got to meet up with lot of people, attended a lot of the employment breakouts led by Dick Davis from Minnesota and our very own Hadeisha Van Alstine was down there working with the employment groups. I had a great time, got some great content for some future podcasts and here we are, back in the studio talking about the job hunt. Serena Gilbert: I know summer is well underway and I know we have a lot of graduates that might be looking for some job hunting tips. So we thought we'd take today's podcast to talk about a lot of different techniques and resources to help you with your job hunt. Jeff Thompson: Yeah the job hunt can be very challenging. A lot of up and downs. But remember this is an experience, you're going to learn from it and experience is the best teacher. Serena Gilbert: Job hunting is definitely a full time job. It kind of feels overwhelming, I'm sure, and I hope that some the things that we chat about today will help break it down and give you some systematic steps that might help you identify some jobs that aren't even posted that might be perfect for you. Jeff Thompson: So I think one of the first things you want to do is identify the type of job that you want. Serena Gilbert: Exactly. If the type of job that you want is technical in nature, think outside the box. For example, maybe you're going into web design. Think about the biggest industries that are in your market that might still need a web designer. For example, some of the top industries I know here in Colorado, and probably pretty much nationwide, are healthcare, education and government. So everyone in those three particular areas would probably need some web design type of experience in order to run their company because they're such large organizations there's a seat for everyone. So I would start by identifying some of those places that maybe some other people wouldn't think about when you're looking at your skillset to start making a list of companies you want to look into. Jeff Thompson: And I always suggest to people when they're looking at the companies to go online, check out their about page, check out their mission statement because that will identify what the company is about. It's always nice to have some of their keywords if you get into an interview to have that to be able to utilize and use that during your conversation. Serena Gilbert: And that will help too with, and I know this next thing will get some people a little bit nervous, but that will also help with when you're making some cold calls. I know it sounds super old school but it's very effective. A lot of companies do not even advertise a great deal of their jobs because maybe they know that there's an opening coming but it just hasn't been posted yet. And if you can call and get your name in front of a hiring manager before they even posted that job that decreases the competition for that job and increases your likelihood of being seen by that hiring manager. Jeff Thompson: That's great information. It's who you know sometimes and getting your name in there really works. Get your resume and your application right to the top. Serena Gilbert: Exactly. And don't be afraid to volunteer at an organization that you want to work for as well. Because a lot of organizations, especially maybe a hospital or something like that, might hire from their volunteer pool before they would go into the applications that they received from candidates. Jeff Thompson: You know, volunteering is such a key part because if you're not working that's a void in your resume. So when you have volunteering in there a lot of companies look at that as a plus. Serena Gilbert: Exactly and you're still building your skill set, and more importantly, you're networking and you're keeping yourself busy as well. I know one of the topics that we're going to talk about on our upcoming podcast is talking about mental health and vision impairments and things like that and also some self-care tips. Getting out of the house will certainly help with keeping that balance for yourself and also keep that positive, optimistic outcome coming out. Jeff Thompson: So once you identified a company that's when you start honing in. If you have two, three companies you start, as Serena said, the cold call, you explore their job opportunities. And on most website they might have an area that is employment and you can go in there and check. Some places do post four, five, six different jobs, different areas and check out the area that you're interested and see if there are some opportunities right there too. Serena Gilbert: And also look up not only just their website but do a quick Google news search on that company. See what kind of things they have up and coming because that will help you with if you do get to make a cold call and speak to a hiring manager that'll give you some talking points to mention. For example, I saw that you guys are launching a new product. I wanted to let you know that I have just recently graduated from UCLA and I have some significant web development skills and I wondered if you had any openings for me to be able to utilize those skills at your company. That shows you that you dedicated some time to look at their webpage, look at some news clippings. And it also shows that you've been pretty thoughtful about how your skills might fit into the company and where they're going next. Jeff Thompson: And if you want to learn more information about searching for jobs and some ideas to have, there's apps out there that will help you like CareerConnect is one of them from the American Foundation for the Blind. There's another one from Indeed and this just gets you into that groove. You start looking through this stuff it might spark some ideas in yourself. Not that these are total answers for getting a job but it does enhance your own possibilities because you're reading stories or you're reading about other jobs and tips and tricks for the interviews. So don't shy away from these apps, they're a good resource of information. Serena Gilbert: Yeah I especially love Indeed. It's an app as well as a website, it's indeed.com. And the very nice thing about Indeed is it's obviously very much accessible as screen readers. And it filters out a lot of those spam type postings that you see sometimes on other job boards that maybe aren't so legit and it still pulls in jobs from the government websites such as USA Jobs or your state government or even your county or city government. So you're seeing virtually every job that's posted that meets the search results that you're putting in. And it also allows you to set up job alerts. You can enter your email address, enter the keywords and every day it'll send you all the postings that match those job alerts. And you can also save your resume on there. Jeff Thompson: One thing I really liked about these apps, these are not apps for just the blind. CareerConnect might have a twist to it and help you out with some hurdles or obstacles that you think might be in the way. But Indeed is just listing the jobs that are available and that's some frame that you have to be in that you can do these type of jobs and why not. Serena Gilbert: Exactly. That's half the battle right there because, and we'll talk about this again in an upcoming podcast, but if you go into the job search thinking, "Well maybe I can do this, maybe not," it's going to definitely impact you when you're called for that first interview and you're asked very specific questions about how you're going to perform duties or react in particular situations. So we got to remember to be really optimistic about what we can and can't do as well as think of the ways that you can get accommodations for what you'd like to be able to do. Jeff Thompson: Yeah, we were talking earlier about volunteering you mentioned that what positive that is on your resume. You might be doing a resume and you might have some gaps in there. The thing is volunteering can fill those gaps. Serena Gilbert: Well we talked a little bit about volunteering and I know that sometimes individuals think, "Why would I want to volunteer? I'm really trying to get paid, I don't really have the benefit being able to volunteer my time." I see that as an investment in your future. I know that sounds really cheesy and kind of corny but in order to get where you want to be sometimes we have to do some things that we don't really necessarily want to do and make some sacrifices but in the long term that will certainly pay off. Because those volunteering opportunities, like we said, will most likely, especially if you're doing them in the field that you're interested in, will put you in touch with lots of individuals that maybe work in the field or the company that you would like to work for. And they've seen your work ethic and seen how you can do things. And that will help get you that paid employment down the road. Serena Gilbert: Even when I started with vocational rehabilitation here in Colorado, I took one of my personal days off of my regular job to literally chat all the counselors in the office for an entire day and meet with the supervisor that was at that office. So they knew who I was. When a job opened and they saw my name they could place a face with that name and know that I took that extra step to want to be with that agency. Jeff Thompson: I think another thing that volunteering does it gives you experience that you are not probably expecting. Because when I was teaching, I taught woodworking at a blindness training center. I also did a teen night, a volunteer thing that I kind of created on a Friday night. And the teens kept coming back, 10 to 12 of them for four years straight. And it was just interesting because I wouldn't never got that experience to just like freelance time, three, four hours, with a group of teens that kept coming ... I didn't know why they kept coming back. But the experience I got from that was like I could be innovative, I could be creative and to keep their attention. That experience is a lifetime and I've taken that into my other jobs. You do gain a lot of experience from volunteering. Serena Gilbert: And you mentioned gaps in a resume before and along with gaps in resumes comes some gaps in current professional references. And most employers when they're looking at candidates would like at least three professional references. And they like them to be people who have recently worked with you. So again, that volunteering opportunity could give you an option to be able to build new references that you can then use to apply for paid positions down the road. Jeff Thompson: And if you've had plenty of jobs and moved around and planning on volunteering there's a limit to how many you may want to list that keeps it relevant. Serena Gilbert: That takes us right into resume writing. And there's so many theories on resumes. I have my own personal theories. I am very traditional in the way that I approach resumes. And by traditional, I don't mean as far as the formatting or the layout, because there's lots of different layouts that you can use that are very effective. But somebody once told me when it comes to a resume that even Colin Powell has a one page resume. That resonated with me because I'm like, "Well holy cow, he's done all kinds of stuff." And if he can get it down to one page, surely I can. I know it's a little different nowadays because yes there's computers that are looking at your resume and scanning for specific words and things like that. But even when you're in front of the interview panel they might not look at every single page on your resume and if there's some really cool experiences that you want to make sure that they see but they're on page two or page three that's not going to work to your benefit sometimes. Jeff Thompson: Put it all on the front page. Serena Gilbert: And there's lots of ways to creatively do that because there's skills-based resumes which is more so at the top of your resume listing different categories and then sub bullets of very specific skills related to the job that you're applying for. Or you can do the traditional chronological, there's all kinds of different ways. But especially if you're career changing maybe you're having some vision loss a little bit later in life and you're moving into a different type of career, you'll want to do more so of a skills-based type resume. Because that will allow for you to show your transferrable skills to open the employer's eyes to what you've done in the past that will also work to their benefit on the new position. Jeff Thompson: That's extremely important because the stuff that is relevant is stuff that you done lately, the stuff that they see will help you succeed at the job that they need to get done. And when you frame it that way that makes perfectly good sense, because if I went chronologically, wow, we're talking page four, page five. But if you- Serena Gilbert: That's it Jeff? Jeff Thompson: That's just the introduction. But that's one way to bring it all to the front because they want to find the important stuff. Because they're looking for someone to fill a job tomorrow. If you put those skills right up front, they're interested. Serena Gilbert: And somebody once told me, and obviously being visually impaired this is really hard to kind of wrap my mind around, they said that it's easier for employers to read your resume if there's a lot of white on it as opposed to a lot of big chunks of text. So for example, when you're writing a bullet maybe keep it to five, six, seven words instead of three lines because they want to be able to visually just scan down it, see the highlights. Use a lot of bold, italic, that sort of thing, for different sections because they're not going to read it word for word. Jeff Thompson: Right, sound bites we call that. I had a teacher that said, "We become a society of sound bites." And this was years ago where people don't read paragraphs. Well they don't. You got about seven seconds to get someone's attention with the beginning of a podcast, with beginning of a story. Even a song or a jingle, those little catch phrases, that's what you want your piece of work, your resume. When you're talking about the job description and your skills that's where you're going to find all the stuff they're looking for. The job description, bang bang, you're going to look at that, dissect it and bring all your skills that fit that to the forefront. And the keywords that they're using in there because you want to use those keywords, probably an algorithm that's going to go through there and search for those and move your resume to the top. Serena Gilbert: It's almost like taking a chemistry test but having all the notes and the book right there beside you. You got the job description, you have the internet to research every single thing you could possibly want to know about a particular company to be able to tailor your cover letter and your resume to at least catch someone's attention. So that they see, "Oh my gosh, I said I needed all these great things and look this person's perfect." And it's okay to use the same words as them. I wouldn't say copy/paste the job description into your resume because they'll notice that, but it's okay to use some of the same keywords. Like if they're looking for specific software or specific programming languages or whatever your field may be make sure that's on your resume if you have those skills. Jeff Thompson: Exactly. Serena, I really think you hit the nail on the head here with tailoring. Because if you're going to apply to two, three different companies they might have job descriptions that are similar but a little bit different. You want to tailor each application that you put in, each resume that you submit, you want that to be tailored to that specific job. And it's not just something you make three copies and send to three companies, so I really like how you use the word tailoring your resume. Serena Gilbert: In order to make it as easy as possible for you to be able to customize and tailor that resume make sure that you have a master copy of your resume that's in an easily accessible format for you to be able to switch it around and copy/paste or do whatever you want to do. Make sure that it's saved maybe in ... I would suggest, highly suggest a Word version. Even if you do use a Mac computer, most people in the business world do not use Mac computers when they're accessing things. So even if you do create it in Pages make sure you're saving it as a Word document. Jeff Thompson: And this final resume that you do come up with, your master, I would suggest, and some people may debate this, we might get some fan mail or some other kind of mail about this, is having someone take a glance over, a once over. Someone that is familiar with checking out resumes. One of your people that you put down as a reference. Maybe you can send it to them and say, "Hey, what do you think?" You may not be saying that, "Hey, I can't see the resume I want you to check for format." But they'll just glance at it and if there's something obvious that just strikes them they'll probably suggest, "Oh, you might want to do this or do that." There's ways of actually having someone check out your resume, and I highly suggest you have someone check it out. Serena Gilbert: Well unsighted or not it's always a good idea to have a second person take a look at your resume. And spell check, spell check, spell check, and then spell check again because the worst thing you can have happen on your resume when you're submitting it is there to be a glaring typo or grammatical error that will immediately eliminate you. Serena Gilbert: I know that we have a lot of listeners that are looking to enter into employment in the federal government. So I wanted to take some time to chat about that because that's a whole different beast to tackle and there's some tricks and things that might help out with that. So usajobs.com is where all of the federal government jobs are posted, including what's called non appropriated fund jobs which are the types of jobs that aren't tied to the federal budget. So I'm not sure if people follow politics but I feel like every six months or a year the federal government is threatened with a shutdown. The non appropriated fund jobs are jobs that would not be affected by budget because they're essentially self-supporting with the money that they bring in. So those are jobs, for example, at the child development centers. They're recreation centers like the gyms or the bowling alleys. Overseas, there's actually some casinos. Things like that. And they are still federal jobs, you still have all the federal benefits it's just a separate type of department. And then there's also the traditional USA jobs that are federal positions that are tied to the budget. Serena Gilbert: But one thing to remember about these types of jobs is that they have certain hiring I guess priority categories would be the best way to discuss it. So for example, usually on a position the first classification that is considered for a job is a disabled veteran. And then it's usually military spouses, and then individuals with disabilities is I believe the third category that gets a special hiring authority assigned to it. The reason this is important is because in order to be considered an individual with a disability is you have to have what's called a Schedule A letter. And a Schedule A letter is basically a document that you get from a professional, typically your vocational rehabilitation counselor that certifies that you are in fact an individual with a disability that qualifies for special hiring authority under Schedule A. It's a very simple letter, it doesn't even say your specific disability or anything. It could not be more general. It says, "This individual is an individual that has a disability that might be mental, physical, whatever." It's not specific at all. But it's something that has to be attached with your application in order to be considered in that special authority hiring. Jeff Thompson: And I know in some federal jobs and even state jobs that they are looking for people with disabilities because they do want to increase that category of hiring. Serena Gilbert: Well, and it's not just the federal and the state it's actually the contractors with the Feds as well. They're required to hire a certain percentage of individuals with disabilities as part of their contracts with the federal government. Jeff Thompson: Yeah keep your eyes open for all sorts of opportunities. It's now popular for companies to be out there saying that we're inclusive, we're looking for people with disabilities and creating those opportunities. So be aware, take a look around and you might be surprised. Serena Gilbert: For sure, I mean, definitely the companies that are really smart are looking for inclusiveness. Because the reality is if you look statistically, people with disabilities don't typically leave positions that they get because we worked so hard to get them. We worked so hard to get our accommodations. And frankly, it's usually a really good fit if we gotten the accommodations that we need. We're not typically trying to look for the next best thing. I think that some companies are finally starting to recognize that value. Jeff Thompson: It is, it's a good time to pay attention to the jobs, the opportunities that are out there. And check our show notes, check out the links to Indeed, CareerConnect. Dive in, dive in and start looking into resumes. And if you have friends that have done resumes before talk to them. Like Serena said earlier, there's not one size fits all for a resume. Serena Gilbert: Unfortunately, the job hunt can be an incredibly frustrating process. We're going to hear way more no's than we're going to hear yes's. That's just the reality of the process. Just remember as long as you are continuing to submit applications and you're continuing to network and talk to people about the fact that you're looking for employment, you're still moving forward. And yes I know this sounds, again, a little cheesy, I'm a little sentimental, but all you need is one person to say yes. That's all that it takes. And you're not going to hear that yes unless you put in a ton, a ton, a ton, a ton of applications. Jeff Thompson: Yeah, and experience is the best teacher so sometimes ... And someone, I think it was Cindy Bennett told us, "Sometimes some job interviews or some process that you go through is just gaining experience so you can do better at the next one." Serena Gilbert: Exactly, and that's great advice. Jeff Thompson: We hope this helps with your job hunt. In our upcoming episode, we'll be talking about- Serena Gilbert: The job interview. The scariest part of the whole job search, right? Jeff Thompson: ... Swimming with the sharks. Serena Gilbert: Oh I thought that was a Jaws reference. Jeff Thompson: Oh yeah, well okay there you go. There is so many aspects with the job interview, preparing for mock interviews. So there's a whole bunch of topics that we're going to throw at you and give you a chance to think about on the job interview episode. Serena Gilbert: I can't wait to talk about that because I truly think that that is actually the hardest part of everything, especially figuring out the disability part of it. Like we talked about with the disclosure piece of it. But even just, "Oh how do I answer what's my greatest weakness?" And not say a really bad weakness. We'll talk about that and work through some questions and different tips and tricks. Jeff Thompson: And like we've been talking about looking at their about page or their mission statement. That is where some of those questions that they might throw at you or questions you ask them about where you can gather some of that information as well. Serena Gilbert: Exactly because you are interviewing them as well. It might not feel like it but you are.   Jeff Thompson: Yeah, it's a two way street. Serena Gilbert: Well, Jeff. Jeff Thompson: Well, Serena. Serena Gilbert: Well, Jeff. Jeff Thompson: Serena and everybody I hope you enjoyed the show and until next time. Serena Gilbert: See you next time. Jeff Thompson: Bye bye. Serena Gilbert: As always, if you have any questions or topics that you'd like us to follow, you can give us a message on Twitter. That's @jobinsightsvip or on our Facebook page which is Job Insights. And we also have a Job Insights support group on Facebook. Just search Job Insights support group. See you next time.   Jeff Thompson: For more podcasts with a blindness perspective check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com. On Twitter @blindabilities. Download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that's two words. Or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening.   [Music]  [Transition noise] When we share what we see through each other's eyes... [Multiple voices overlapping, in unison, to form a single sentence] ...We can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations, and the realities of Blind Abilities. Jeff Thompson: For more podcasts with the blindness perspective: Check us out on the web at www.BlindAbilities.com On Twitter @BlindAbilities Download our app from the App store: 'Blind Abilities'; that's two words. Or send us an e-mail at:info@blindabilities.com Thanks for listening.  

Job Insights Episode 2 - Vocational Rehab 101: Demystifying the Myths and Planning For Employment Welcome to the second episode of  Job Insights with Serina Gilbert and Jef Thompson. We focus on Employment, Careers, enhancing opportunities and bringing you  the latest innovations from across the Vocational  Rehabilitation field to ensure your choices lead you down the career pathway that you want and succeed in gainful employment. From getting started with services, to assessments, Individual Plan for Employment (IPE) to gaining the skills to succeed and tools for success, Job Insights will be giving you tips and tricks to help your journey to employment and break down the barriers along the way. In Episode 2 of Job Insights Serina and Jeff break down Vocational Rehab services from eligibility, intake, personal adjustment training, training centers, and your responsibilities as well. Navigating the services may seem daunting at first but with a little bit of information and explanation you will soon fine your pathway to gainful and meaningful employment does not have to be a solo journey. Your Voc-Rehab team wants you to succeed and is their for you all the way.   Full Transcript Below   We hope you enjoy this Job Insights episode and you can send your feedback and suggestions to the Job Insights team by email at JobInsights@BlindAbilities.com Follow the Job Insights team on twitter @JobInsightsVIP Job Insights is part of the Blind Abilities network. A big Thank You goes out to CheeChau for his beautiful music!   Thank you for listening. You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store.   Transcription:   Job Insights Episode 2 - Vocational Rehab 101: Demystifying the Myths and Planning For Employment   Serina: I know sometimes that a lot of individuals can be a little bit overwhelmed by applying for services with vocational rehabilitation and we'd like to hopefully demystify some of the myths and help you learn a little bit more about the process. Jeff: Job Insights, a podcast to help you carve out your career pathway and enhance the opportunities for gainful employment. Serina: Helping you with independent living skills, helping you get around town, helping you with cooking, money management, all those things that you need in order to be successful on a job. Jeff: Learn about resources for training, education, and employment opportunities, to see what best suits you to see if you're prepared to move on to the next step. Serina: Correct. Jeff: Thus it's an assessment. Serina: Correct, it helps the counselor out and it helps you out too. Jeff: We will hear from people seeking careers, employment from professionals in the educational field, teachers and innovators in this ever-changing world of technology to help you navigate the employment world and give you Job Insights, and enhance the opportunities to choose the career you want. Serina: We would hate to see you move forward with an employment goal that you thought you would absolutely love, only to find out maybe three months into the job that you obtain, that you really don't like it so much, so it helps us save a little bit of time and prepare you for realistic expectations on the job. Jeff: You can find the Job Insights podcast on BlindAbilities.com, part of the Blind Abilities Network, with host, Serina Gilbert and myself, Jeff Thompson. And you can contact us by email at jobinsights@blindabilities.com, leave us some feedback, or suggest some topics that we cover, you can also follow us on Twitter at Job Insights VIP, and check out the job inside support group on Facebook where you can learn, share, advise, and interact with the Job Insights community. [Music] Serina: Sometimes it might be getting more evaluations done with an orientation and mobility specialist, or a vision rehabilitation therapist to see what kind of personal adjustment training you might need. Jeff: And now please welcome Serina Gilbert and Jeff Thompson with Job Insights. Serina: Hi Jeff how are you? Jeff: I'm doing good how are you Serina? Serina: I'm doing great, how was your week? Jeff: It was good, it was good, the sun has come, spring is finally here. Serina: I don't know, I think you might get some more snow. It's not May yet. Jeff: We're just so glad to have it, I already got the patio furniture out, so I'm excited, I'm excited. Serina: You gonna be barbecuing for me? Jeff: We did that yesterday. Serina: Nice! Jeff: And I didn't even let you know did I? Serina: No you didn't even invite me, even though I'm, I don't even know how many miles away from you. [Laughter] Jeff: I'll waft the barbecue smell west. Serina: Send it over with an Amazon drone you know. Jeff: There we go. I wonder what that sound will be? Serina: They'll probably have like a special Amazon Prime sound for us all. Jeff: Oh yeah so it's recognizable. Serina: Everyone's jealous because we got something from Amazon. Jeff: The dogs will whine just a little bit, it is exciting though when a package comes. Serina: So I heard that we got a ton of positive feedback on our very first introductory episode to Job Insights? Jeff: Yes we did, it did not come by drone, but we got so much positive feedback, it's really exciting. Serina: I think that's great. I know today we were talking about vocational rehabilitation 101, and we'll chat a little bit about the process, what to expect. I know sometimes that a lot of individuals can be a little bit overwhelmed by applying for services with vocational rehabilitation and we'd like to hopefully demystify some of the myths and help you learn a little bit more about the process. And I know, as I talked about on the previous podcast, I was also a client of vocational rehabilitation and I believe you were as well right Jeff? Jeff: Yes I did, but unlike yourself Serina, my ophthalmologist did not send me there, so getting started with State Services was interesting. Serina: At least you got connected, that's that's the biggest part. Jeff: Mm-hmm. Serina why don't we start out by telling the listeners a little bit about what it takes to qualify for services, and if it's a federal or state standard that they go by. Serina: So it's a federal mandate, the eligibility requirements for vocational rehabilitation systems, in general, you have to have a documentable disability that poses some sort of barrier towards you entering into employment, keeping employment, or advancing in the current position that you have. You also have to be able to basically benefit from the services and that's a presumption that most agencies make. Jeff: A presumption? Serina: A presumption of eligibility. Jeff: Hmm? Serina: Another eligibility criteria that helps is, I believe if you receive SSI or SSDI then you are automatically eligible for vocational rehabilitation services. Jeff: So that's usually a process when you go there for services then you probably have to get it to go to a doctor so it's documented. Serina: Well, you can go to a doctor, but if you do not have documentation of your disability, vocational rehabilitation can actually either send out for the records, or send you for evaluations in order to obtain that documentation. Jeff: And that's just one of the steps of the intake process. Serina: So that first step is your intake appointment, which your counselor will go over a ton of different paperwork with you, you'll sign some releases of information for them to be able to talk to necessary individuals that might be working with you on the case, or to obtain medical records, or again refer you for those necessary evaluations, and from that time frame of the first date that you officially apply for services your counselor has up to 60 days to determine you are eligible for services. It can take that long depending on the counselors caseload, but sometimes it's faster, it just depends on the documentation that you already have, and what that counselors caseload looks like. Jeff: Is that the same for when agency is on order of a selection? Serina: Correct, they still have the same 60 days eligibility determination requirements, even if they do have a waitlist or order of selection. Jeff: So if they determine on the intake that you're in, then what's the next step? Serina: The next step is what's called the comprehensive assessment. What happens in this stage is you and your counselor are working together to identify a reasonable and suitable employment goal and also identify the necessary services that might be provided to you in order to help you achieve that employment goal. Sometimes this process could include you trying out work, doing what's called a situational assessment, and that would involve you going to a worksite and trying out the job to see if you like it, see that the duties are something that work well with your personality, in your disability, and also to help you with networking. Sometimes it might be getting more evaluations done with an orientation and mobility specialist, or a vision rehabilitation therapist to see what kind of personal adjustment training you might need. Jeff: Serina, personal adjustment training, can you break that down for our listeners? Serina: Definitely, personal adjustment training might include helping you with independent living skills, helping you get around town, helping you with cooking, money management, all those things that you need in order to be successful on a job. Jeff: And typically you could be sent to a blindness training center or a vendor of the agency? Serina: It depends on this state, some agencies do use the blindness centers, some do have in-house service providers that work specifically for DVR, or third-party vendors like you mentioned, and then I'm not sure about other states, but here in Colorado we do actually have a center based program that the vocational rehabilitation program staffs as well. Jeff: And in Minnesota were fortunate to have three adjustment to blindness training centers, Vision Loss Resource in Minneapolis, Blind Incorporated in Minneapolis, and in Duluth we have the Lighthouse for the Blind, plus State Services for the Blind, and various vendors that will provide specialized services as well. You mentioned doing a situational type of thing where you go to an employer and they do an evaluation, would that be set up with your employment specialist to see if this is an interest of theirs or to see if they like it? Serina: It can be set up through an employment specialist if the state that you work in is structured in that manner, sometimes it's your vocational rehabilitation counselor that's setting it up, and sometimes it can even be a third party vendor that you're working with that is providing that assessment service for us. Jeff: And this is all in an attempt to see what best suits you to see if you're prepared to move on to the next step. Serina: Correct. Jeff: Thus it's an assessment. Serina: Correct, it helps the counselor out and it helps you out too because we would hate to see you move forward with an employment goal that you thought you would absolutely love, only to find out maybe three months into the job that you obtained that you really don't like it so much, so it helps us save a little bit of time and prepare you for realistic expectations on the job. Jeff: So if you do need some soft skills, if you do need some technology skills, and it's determined that you should go to a blindness training center of some sorts, that might set you back six to nine months or whatever it takes right? Serina: That's correct, the blindness training centers are not super short programs, I think the shortest program that they have is the summer youth program for those that are still in either high school or college perhaps, and I believe that's even eight weeks. Jeff: And that's basically like a step program to bridge you into college preparedness? Serina: Correct. Jeff: And if you're planning on going just straight into the workforce then a training center might give you the skills that are needed to help gain employment. Serina: Correct, they work on every skill that you can possibly think of from independent transportation, orientation and mobility, independent living, I do believe they do some self-advocacy training, as well as working on basic social skills because you are living on campus with lots of other people and there's gonna be times when you disagree and you're gonna have to use those conflict resolution skills which will help you for sure once you start working. Jeff: I know we talked about transition aged students quite a bit, but there's also other people adults that have vision loss and they want to get their employment back and so these training centers do adult programs as well. Serina: And it can be quite helpful because I know last time we talked a little bit about an individual maybe who's coming in that has lost sight a little bit later in life but still really wants to work, that's a hard transition coming from having a driver's license and being able to independently transport yourself and work on a computer, to all of a sudden not having those skills anymore and abilities, and those centers and also other field based programs through vocational rehabilitation can certainly help with that transition, and also help you connect with different support groups and things like that so that you can start networking with individuals who've maybe been there as well. Jeff: However, before you move on to this step you must set up an individual plan or employment. Serina: That is correct, and all of the individualized plans for employment can only have services on it that the counselor and you agree are necessary and appropriate, and then they are always purchased at the least possible cost. So there might be times when there's certain products that you really really would like, but the counselor has to follow certain policies and purchase things at the lowest possible cost that is still appropriate for what you need the items for. Jeff: But typically the items will get you to your destination? Serina: Exactly, like as an example, there's lots of different types of computers now, we have our personal computers that maybe would run a screen reader or screen magnification software, and we have our Mac books that also have that same type of software built into it. Typically vocational rehabilitation is going to look at purchasing personal computers more so because we're looking down the road at employment and most employers still use personal computers, so it makes the most sense to get you used to using that type of a technology if you're going to be working in an office environment down the road. Jeff: And when you're saying personal computers, you're talking about Microsoft based platform. Serina: Correct, like a Windows computer. Jeff: Mm-hmm, Serina, can you tell us how flexible and IPE, individual plan for employment is? Serina: Yes, it's a plan, yes it's written on paper, but that doesn't mean that it can't be changed. So it's really important to communicate with your counselor if you feel that something's not going the way that you want it to go, or that you want to try something different, because that plan can definitely be amended, it's actually quite rare that we have the exact same plan from start to finish. Jeff: Okay someone goes through the process and they get their training, making progress, and you're checking the list and moving forward and now they're going to college and they are succeeding, according to the plan, and it comes time to where they start thinking about the job and job resumes, and job interviews, and all that, is there any services for that type of area? Serina: Definitely, it can be considered part of vocational counseling and guidance, which is on every single plan for employment across the country, I don't think there's any plans that don't have that, but it's also part of what we call job seeking skills training, which would be, you either working with your counselor, or perhaps a third party vendor to develop that resume, develop a general cover letter, and also start doing mock interviews, and begin talking about how do you want to handle the interview, how do you want to disclose your disability, if you want to do that at all, and how do you advocate for yourself during that interview. For example if you need an accommodation for testing and things like that as part of the interviewing process. Jeff: Now when it comes to disclosure, there's so many debates about it, and there I don't think there is any one answer, one fits all for this topic. Serina: Correct and I know we're probably gonna talk about that, maybe that'll be our next episode, because that's a hot topic of how do I disclose my disability, and what when and where, am I going to get discriminated against, things like that, I know people are very fearful of that, that definitely will warrant a full episode. Jeff: And that's a big one, so is writing your resume, because a resume is a work in progress, because if you're looking at one job, looking at a next job, it has to form to the job, the keywords and everything, so it's a good skill to have and a good thing to have a template to be able to adjust it for the job you're seeking. Serina: Exactly, we call it tailoring your resume because if you're not putting in specific keywords, a human's not even going to see your resume because there's so many electronic ways that they use, optical character recognition, and scanning the resume that you've submitted either online or even email, where they just scan to see specific keywords and skills and if it doesn't meet that, then it automatically gets denied. Jeff: Optical character recognition, it was such a gift and now it's working against us. Serina: Yep, sound familiar though right? Jeff: Mm-hmm, Serina with all your experiences, what tips would you have for someone who's receiving services and working with the counselor? Serina: So during the vocational rehabilitation process it's really important that you stay in close contact with your vocational rehabilitation counselor. There will be a lot of times when they're going to be asking for tons of paperwork that you might find cumbersome or even redundant. I promise you they wouldn't be asking you for it if they didn't need it because we get a lot of paperwork, if we didn't need it, we wouldn't be asking for it for you. So especially if you're on/in a plan for employment that includes training, every semester we're going to be looking at what grades did you get, what classes are you registering for next semester, do you need any books, did you apply for your federal financial aid? All of those things are things that are required before we can say yes we will pay for your tuition this semester at the school. If your counselor sends you an email asking for something, the quicker you reply the quicker things can move, and just know that sometimes things can't move overnight, if you call us and for specific piece of technology, we might not be able to get that for you immediately, especially if it's not included on your plan for employment, there might be some paperwork things that have to be done and ordering processes and things like that. So we ask that you're a little bit patient with us, but also the more you communicate with us, the better service provisions you will have. Jeff:And staying ahead of the game is the whole thing. Serina: Exactly. Jeff: Yeah, being on the State Rehab Council I get a lot of documents about this it's agencies and I see that one of the highest percentage of closures is because of lack of communications by the client back to the agency. Serina: That's probably actually pretty accurate because especially with my caseload I work with a lot of young adults, so they're still learning how to keep in touch so I do give them quite a few chances but it never fails that as soon as I close a case because I haven't heard from them despite multiple attempts on my end, about two weeks later is when they call me back and say, well I didn't know that you were gonna close my case. And obviously yes you can go back through the process and we can open it again but it's much more efficient even if you just send me a text message saying, everything's all right, I'm still out here, and that'll keep things going for you, but we have to remain efficient and show that the people that were working with are making progress in order to meet our goals and outcomes. Jeff: Serina, this is a lot of great information for someone who is going through vision loss, what advice would you have for someone who is seeking services from their division of vocational rehab or their State Services for the Blind? Serina: If you are a transitioning student and you're at least 15 years old and you are definitely starting to think about employment and what's next and actually some states that's as little as 14, but most states is about 15 or 16, but if you're starting to think about employment, I would say do not hesitate to contact your local vocational rehabilitation, talk to them about services, even if you call and you meet with them and it's not quite the right time, you are at least ahead of the game and knowing what to expect when you do decide that it's the right time for you. If you're an individual that's lost sight a little bit later in life or maybe have never heard of vocational rehabilitation and you're struggling with some vision difficulties, pick up the phone and give them a call, especially if you're looking into employment. All of our services at vocational rehabilitation are for sure geared towards employment now, so any services that we provide do you have to be tied to an employment goal with an eventual goal of being employed in the long-term. Jeff: You know Serina when I first lost my eyesight, I was skeptical you know, I was like worried about what's gonna happen and I didn't know, I didn't know where the blind were, I didn't know anything and I kind of felt like State Services, the agency was kind of a safety net, so I was gonna go out there and forge my own path and if I failed I would head towards the agency and get services, but now today, the more I know about it, it seems like it's a vehicle towards a future, and I've said this many times, but it is, it's it's, it's a resource, it's a place to go to learn about the pathways that you can take towards employment. Serina: And I'm curious what was your experience on the client side? I know you're on the state rehab Council and things like that, but do you remember being your very first experience when you first applied for services? Jeff: You know this is a great question for me because my experience was quite unique I think because when I first lost my eyesight I sold my pickup truck and I bought a brand new computer, I bought jaws and I started doing things the way I thought was best, I did things my own way. I did not understand that State Services for the Blind with an IPE, an individual plan for employment would have set up something of the nature to provide me the tools for me to succeed according to the plan and my goals, and once I understood that there were services as such, I then meticulously figured out what I would have to do for myself, and what they could do for me, and together we could reach the goals that we both set up. So I think part of the demystification of this is, they won't buy you everything, it's not a toy store, but they will assist you in succeeding, and those services do range from, you know, picking the right college that best suits your field, the technology that you'll need to succeed in college or in the workplace, there's so many services that are available there, you just have to make that call, like you said Serina, make that call and find out what they can do for you, and what you have to do as well. Serina: Well and that, someway just popped a thought into my head, I know that some individuals, most you know, most likely receive SSI or SSDI, some sort of Social Security benefits and it can be a little nerve-racking wondering, what if I start work and then it doesn't work out, how are my benefits impacted, there's lots of different rules related to social security and work. So I'm thinking that might be a really good idea for another future topic as well. Jeff: Absolutely, and when a person is going through vision loss it doesn't mean that they're totally educated on all the intricacies that are involved from your State Services, from your DVR, from the government, from Social Security, all these things have to be learned and dealt with and that's why talking with your counselor to learn, to educate yourself, so you can better be prepared for the opportunities that are ahead of you, and I think calling your State Services is one of the best things that a person can do, and that's why they call it a informed choice. Serina: Exactly, so many topics Jeff, we're never gonna end. [Laughter] Jeff: Hmm, that's job security huh? Serina: For sure, how insightful. [Laughter] Jeff: Speaking of something that never ends, I thought winter was the same way around here, but we got grass out back now and the trees are starting to bud, I could feel that a little apple trees with the little buds on them. Serina: That's awesome, you'll start sneezing pretty soon here. Jeff: Mm-hmm, I'm just glad I planted apple trees because I don't think they make PC trees. Serina: Ba dump bum[Imitating comedic snare drum] [trumoet sound effect] Well that concludes today's podcast, but next week we will be tackling that tough topic of disability disclosure, and the job interview. If you have questions you can email us at: Jeff: JobInsights@BlindAbilities.com. Serina: Or follow us on twitter: Jeff: at Job Insights VIP. Thank you CheeChau for your beautiful music, that's @LCheeChau on Twitter. [Music] We really hope you enjoyed this podcast, thanks for listening, and until next time bye-bye. [Music] [Multiple voices] When we share what we see through each other's eyes, we can then begin to bridge the gap between the limited expectations and realities of blind abilities. Jeff: For more podcasts with the blindness perspective check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter at Blind Abilities, download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that is two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com. Thanks for listening!

Many of Mountains and None to Grand for Katheryn Menne: Over Coming Bullying and Low Expectations (Transcription Provided)  Conquering mountains is quite an accomplishment yet sometimes the mountain is not high in the sky and sometimes it lies very low and unnoticed. Bullying is a steep mountain to navigate when all you wanted was acceptance and inclusion. Katheryn Menne has transversed a journey of bullying, low expectations and low vision since her childhood. She has used the services of State Services for the Blind and has landed a job as a Certified Nursing Assistant. Katheryn tells her story and she knows that the mountains ahead are coming with her changing vision, but she also knows that she can overcome any challenge she will face as the lessons from her pass has made her more confident than she had ever expected.  Join us as her story unfolds and her outlook grows. Transcription below.   Check out your State Services by searching the Services Directory on the AFB.org web site.   State Services for the Blind of Minnesota We offer tools and training for employment and for helping seniors remain independent and active. As Minnesota’s accessible reading source we also transcribe books and other materials into alternative formats, including audio and braille. We assist Minnesotans who are blind, DeafBlind, losing vision, or who have another disability that makes it difficult to read print. I hope you find what you need here. If you’d like to apply for services, learn more, or have more questions, just give us a call. You’ll find contact information for all of our offices on our contact page, or you can call our main office at 651-539-2300.   Full Transcript Below   Thank you for listening. You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store.

Take Full Advantage of Transition Services: Enhancing Opportunities for Success - Meet Kylee Jungbauer (Transcript Provided) Kylee Jungbauer is a rehabilitation counselor at state services for the blind. Her concentration is transition age students. We talked to Kylie about what services they provide for students.  Transitioning from high school to college and to the workplace. State services for the blind has a Transition Unit that facilitates a path for students, providing guidance and opportunities for success. From assessments to training, the transition Team offers as much or as little help as needed while promoting self advocacy and independence along the way. Kylee talks about the importance of Summer Programs and how the Transition Team provides opportunities with employment, career exploration and access to training on the tools that will help bring about a successful transition.   Full Transcript Below   Check out below for a list of Summer opportunities and programs.   Check out your State Services by searching the Services Directory on the AFB.org web site.   State Services for the Blind of Minnesota We offer tools and training for employment and for helping seniors remain independent and active. As Minnesota’s accessible reading source we also transcribe books and other materials into alternative formats, including audio and braille. We assist Minnesotans who are blind, DeafBlind, losing vision, or who have another disability that makes it difficult to read print. I hope you find what you need here. We've also created a Tips for Using Our New Website page. If you’d like to apply for services, learn more, or have more questions, just give us a call. You’ll find contact information for all of our offices on our contact page, or you can call our main office at 651-539-2300.   2018 Summer Opportunities for Teens Learning skills related to blindness, low vision, and DeafBlindness The programs listed below are of varying lengths during the summer. They offer training in independent living and job readiness skills. The program descriptions that follow are taken from each organization’s website. If you’d like to pursue any of these opportunities, please speak with your SSB counselor:   BLIND Incorporated  (Blindness: Learning in New Dimensions) offers an 8-week Post-secondary, Readiness, Empowerment Program (PREP) designed to prepare students for academic, employment, and social success.  The PREP curriculum is designed to empower blind youth with the alternative techniques of blindness they will need to be successful in the college and the career fields they choose, and to give them the confidence and belief in themselves they need to find and keep a job. Additionally there are three one-week summer programs focusing on independent living, post-secondary success, and navigating the world of work.      Career Ventures, Inc . offers resources in: Job Seeking Skills training, Volunteer opportunities, Paid-work experiences, Job Shadows, Internships (on a case by case basis), Job Placement, and Job Coaching. Contact Wendy DeVore at wdevore@careerventuresinc.com for more information.   Courage Kenny SHARE Program  is a resource that provides people of all ages and abilities the opportunity to achieve physical and emotional fitness - and just have some fun. SHARE is a service of Courage Kenny Rehabilitation Institute, part of Allina Health, but our list of services includes those offered by other organizations. It's a one-stop shop for activity listings and registration details in Minnesota and western Wisconsin.    Duluth Center for Vision Loss  offers summer camps designed to sharpen skills needed for success, including Workforce Readiness, College Readiness, Self-advocacy, Mobility, Technology, Independent living, and much more. Students will learn core workforce readiness and adjustment to blindness skills.  They will also be given the opportunity to socialize with peers from across the state and to participate in a wide array of recreational activities. The Lighthouse Transition Program is built on the understanding that “now is the time” that youth need to be developing certain core skills that are essential for their future    Helen Keller National Center  offers programs to students who are DeafBlind which enable each person who is deaf-blind to live and work in his or her community of choice. HKNC offers individualized evaluation and training which will assist students in achieving their own definition of success. The emphasis for the student in the program is to participate in learning opportunities which will lead to successful employment and a full, enriched and independent life in the community. The philosophy of the Center is one of self-determination for all.   Minnesota State Academy for the Blind  (MSAB) offers Summer School programming for elementary, Middle school and high school age students.  Elementary School programs focus on elementary level academics as well as individual goals identified in student IEP’s. Middle and High school students will participate in activities encompassing the three areas of transition (postsecondary, employment, and independent living).  National Federation of the Blind offers of variety of local and national opportunities. The NFB BELL Academy is designed to provide intensive Braille instruction to blind and low-vision children during the summer months. EQ is a week-long learning opportunity that gets blind students excited about STEM by offering hands-on learning experiences. Visit www.nfb.org and www.nfbmn.org for more information.    Stone Arch Employment Solutions, Inc. Email Cori Giles at cori.giles@comcast.net for information.   Summer Transition Program (STP) provides experiences to address the specific transition needs of students who are Blind, Visually impaired or DeafBlind. STP complements each student’s core curriculum at their local school by providing individualized opportunities in the three transition areas identified in their Individualized Education Program (IEP). These unique transition activities, as part of the Expanded Core Curriculum, give each student the opportunity to increase independence in their school, home, community and work environments. Dates for 2018 are June 13-25.  Email Julie Kochevar at julie.kochevar@ahschools.us for information.   Thank you for listening. You can follow us on Twitter @BlindAbilities On the web at www.BlindAbilities.com Send us an email Get the Free Blind Abilities App on the App Store.   Transcript   Take Full Advantage of Transition Services: Enhancing Opportunities for Success - Meet Kylee Jungbauer (Transcript Provided) Kylee: State Services for the Blind can be included in on that plan but then we will also have an employment plan for the students as well. Jeff: Kylee Jungbauer, Rehabilitation Counselor for Transition Age Students. Kylee: We like to keep our students busy during the summer, that's what I tell all of my students so yep, if you're working with us we expect that you're working your plan and obtain that job goal. Jeff: Voices from the success stories of transition age students. Student 1: State Services for the Blind played a role in helping me figure out, for one thing what I wanted to do after high school, and then where I wanted to go to college, and then also they assisted me with helping me find a job. Student 2: Training in stuff relating to technology and all your use of computers and phones, what's the best way that works for you. Student 3: So I was very lucky to have an IEP team that was familiar with working with a blind student. Jeff: Learn about the transition unit at State Services for the Blind. Kylee: I think another way a parent can be involved is just to have that expectation of their student that they will work, and have that expectation that okay yes, they need to learn how to cook, how to do their own laundry, how to clean because the parents aren't gonna be around forever right. Jeff: Kylee is part of a team at State Services for the Blind in their transition unit. Be sure to contact your State Services and find out what their transition team can do for you, and for more podcasts with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on Twitter at Blind Abilities, and download the free Blind Abilities app from the app store, that's two words, Blind Abilities. Kylee: But I think more importantly, is taking a step back and saying, okay, do you have the skills to actually go to college, do you have you know, the advocacy skills, do you have the technology skills, do you have the technology that you actually need? Jeff: Kylee Jungbauer. Kylee: Yep. Jeff: Is that right? Kylee: Yep, yep. Jeff: Welcome to Blind Abilities, I'm Jeff Thompson. Transitioning from high school to college to the workplace, it's a journey that most of us have taken, or some of us are looking forward to, and we'll be talking to Kylee Jungbauer. She's a transition counselor at State Services for the Blind. Kylee is going to talk about the services that you can receive to enhance your opportunities whether in college or gaining employment in the workplace. She's going to talk about the transition unit at State Services which will help you navigate your transition journey and make available all the resources, training, and skills, and confidence that you'll need for the journey. Kylee welcome to Blind Abilities how are you doing? Kylee: I'm great, how are you? Jeff: I'm doing good thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to come down to the studios to share with us what you do for clients of State Services for the Blind. Kylee: Yes of course. Jeff: So Kylee, what is the transition unit at State Services for the Blind? Kylee: We work with youth about 14 to all the way up to 24, so college students as well, and we help them move through their transition from high school to either college or high school to just starting off with their first couple of jobs, we look at what their job goal is, or if they don't have a job goal, bringing them to that, with looking at different interest, inventories, or getting different work experiences so they can try different jobs and see what they really like. Jeff: When you say 14 to 24, so 14 you're talking about students who are in high school? Kylee: Correct yep, so when they're in high school we work with in conjunction with their schools and their TBVI's to supplement what they're already getting or maybe give suggestions, expose them to some different technology, and things that maybe they aren't getting in their school. Some schools provide a lot of adjustment to blindness training, and some schools do little, so we like to supplement especially during the summer when they're out of school. Jeff: And why is that? Kylee: Just to get them prepared for life, like I said transitioning out of education, you know high school, a lot of the services are provided for them, they aren't really having to advocate hopefully too hard for those services versus when they're an adult, they're kind of on their own and they have to learn how to do those things and advocate either in college or in their first jobs. Jeff: And what kind of options are there for the summer? Kylee: We have a lot of summer programming that some of it we provide, a lot of it the various vendors provides anywhere from more social to adjustment to blindness training, where, you know learning Braille, learning orientation mobility skills, a lot of Technology in Duluth, since it's so far away they have some online courses where you can work with them remotely I guess from anywhere in within Minnesota, so there's a lot of different options. Jeff: When you were talking about the TVI's teachers for the visually impaired, you're talking about the district teachers? Kylee: I don't know if they're considered district teachers or not but the district's hire them, yeah the schools provide that service. Jeff: And that's where they start their individual educational plan. Kylee: Yep yep, the TBVI's, they're included in it, the students will also have a case manager that kind of runs the whole thing and makes sure that the goals that are written on the education plan are being obtained or maintained or changed as needed, and State Services for the Blind can be included in on that plan but then we will also have an employment plan for the students as well with their job goal, or if there isn't a job goal then we, we just put something generic while we're exploring different careers. Jeff: So they actually have a simultaneous education plan segueing into a employment plan? Kylee: Correct yep, they'll have an education plan and an employment plan at the same time up until graduation of course, and then it will just be an employment plan with State Services for the Blind, and that will bring them through either their first job or college. Jeff: Well that's a good segue. Kylee: Yeah. Jeff: How does State Services or the transition work with the districts or the Department of Education in Minnesota? Kylee: We like to be invited to all of the IEP meetings so please invite us, that doesn't always happen, just because sometimes they get thrown together really last minute and as long as the parent and the student can make it they kind of just go on with it but, it's good for us to be there so we can see what the school is providing and maybe advocate for more, maybe make suggestions, or see where we can supplement in during this school year, you know sometimes students have time on weekends or after school, or especially during the summer time when they're on break. We like to keep our students busy during the summer that's what I tell all of my students, so yep if you're working with us we expect that you're working your plan and obtain that job goal throughout the school year and then especially during the summer when you're on break and you have that extra time, Jeff: Are there internship programs available to transition-age students in the summer? Kylee: Yes definitely we can work with a vendor but we also have our work opportunity navigator, Tou Yang, and he works with a lot of the students that I'm working with to get them internships, paid summer jobs, if they're interested in working during the school year that's great too, or doing Job Shadows so they can check out different jobs. Some students have this career goal, they know they want to do it but they haven't really talked to somebody who's in the work field actually doing that job, and they may find that oh it looks like it's a lot more data entry and paperwork versus client contact and so maybe they don't want to do that, or maybe they want to be a photographer but they don't want to have to figure out their own taxes or anything like that, so they'll look into working for a company versus going out on their own. So different things that they just don't know because they haven't had that experience. Jeff: Experience that will help them formulate their career goals. Kylee: Right exactly, yep so each career goal on our end has to be looked at, explored, and we have to determine if it's feasible, so if we have a student who wants to be a dolphin trainer for instance but doesn't want to leave Minnesota, that's probably not going to be something that SSB will support just because once they graduate you know, they won't be able to find a job here in Minnesota, so yep. Jeff: Maybe moose training or something but not dolphin training. Kylee: Yes. [Whoosh Sound Effect] Jeff: So if someone wants to explore a career, is there a resource here to help them do that? Kylee: Yep work with Tou, and also we've got a couple different websites that we can either send to our students or sit with them and work one-on-one with them to do some exploration that way, and hopefully the student are getting that in their school as well, hopefully. Jeff: So Tou, you say he's the employment navigator, he actually contacts companies, works with companies to know what they want and educate them on what to expect probably, and then brings people in for opportunities? Kylee: Yep, yep he has a background in working and doing job placement for other companies in the past so he has those employer connections which is great as well, but yep he brings students out to look at people out doing the actual job that they may be interested in so they can see the intricacies of it and still interested in that after learning the ins and outs or if maybe it's not for them and they want to explore other options. Jeff: So Kylee, how do parents get involved, do you have contact with parents of transition students? Kylee: Definitely, parents can be as involved as they want to be of course if their student is a minor, they have to be there for any signing of documentation, but after that they can be as involved as they want to be, kind of feel that out with both the student and the parents. Sometimes I just meet with my students one-on-one during the school day or whatever is convenient for them, but sometimes the parents want to be there, sometimes I can send an email to the parents after a meeting just giving them a recap. If I'm sending internship opportunities or things that need to be filled out with the student and maybe the student isn't the most responsive, I'll just CC the parents on the email just to make sure that everybody saw that it needs to be sent back. But I think another way that parents can be involved is just to have that expectation of their student that they will work, and have that expectation that, okay yes they need to learn how to cook, how to do their own laundry, how to clean, because the parents aren't gonna be around forever right, and they also hopefully won't be following their student to college, so if they need those skills just like any other person. But on the flip side of that, we understand that for a college student, or college bound student it is normal for them not to have those skills. I think college bound students kind of figure out how to do their own laundry once they show up and they dye a white shirt red for the first time and then they're like, okay maybe I need to figure this out, so that's totally normal but I think yeah, for parents to have that expectation that their students work and most people I know had to have a summer job so they could pay for their gas, pay for their the clothes that they want, or the new phone, or you know what have you, so yeah just having that expectation that their student will go on in transition just like any other visual person, so yeah. Jeff: You brought up a good point about you know, the parents are probably their first advocate that they have coming along in life, and there's comes a point in that transition process where a student has to start considering taking over that advocacy, advocating for themselves, like when they don't get a book on time that they can't always depend on their TBI or disability services, they get to a point where they start to have take responsibility for laundry like you said, all that stuff. Kylee: Yep yep, we have a whole Student Handbook that we go through and it has expectations of you know all the documentation that we need before semester starts, but I think more importantly is taking a step back and saying, okay do you have the skills to actually go to college, do you have you know the advocacy skills, do you have the technology skills, do you have the technology that you actually need, the knowledge of the different apps, you know to get your books online, right now it's Jesse that's working with all of our students, but getting our transition tech involved and they come in for a tech assessment to see what they have right now and what they'll need with both technology and technology training. So I have a student right now we're getting her tech package in but also we're planning for the training that she'll need in preparation for going off to college because surprisingly, her typing skills aren't that great, so that's something she knows she really needs to work on because all of those papers that she's gonna be writing, she's gonna need those skills, yeah super exciting, skills that you'll need right. [Whoosh Sound Effect] Jeff: I've seen reports where like colleges said that people are coming in and they're not prepared, and I've also seen where people come in but they end up being like a week or two behind because they're just trying to use this new technology that they don't understand yet and you have to be able to hit the ground running when you enter college. Kylee: Right yes, I talk a lot about that you know, college is high school times ten, you know you don't have a whole week to learn about one chapter in a book, and then have a test on it maybe a week later, it's like five chapters in one week, so you have, yeah right exactly, you have to be able to hit the ground running. So making sure that they're connected with the disability services at their college and they know the ins and outs of how they ask for accommodations, if they need extra time with test taking, anything like that, knowing how to get all that stuff before they go into college. I talked to my students about how some teachers are fabulous with accommodations and some just don't want to deal with it, or they haven't really had to deal with it in the past, so having those advocacy skills are huge. Jeff: Yeah I always suggested when I went in, I learned right away that, send in an email to each teacher, each professor, six weeks in advance if you get that opportunity, to start setting up that communications, and get that underway, rather than trying to set something, because everyone's busy that first week. Kylee: Definitely yeah. I know when I went off to college for the first time, I was terrified to talk to any of my professors, but you don't have that you know option when you need accommodations, you just have to go for it, and feel you know, be comfortable, or maybe you don't have to be comfortable with it, but you have to be able to at least do it, so yeah having those skills is huge. Jeff: Yeah and it does get more comfortable, and as long as you do get comfortable with it, it just puts it back, you just move forward from there. Kylee: Right exactly. Jeff: What words of advice for someone who is transitioning from high school to college to the workplace? Kylee: I would say make sure that you have all of your technology training down, your orientation and mobility, make sure that you're comfortable with that. I think a lot of students are comfortable in their school settings, so some that have some vision may not even use their cane, but I think it's important when you're out in public especially when you're learning new locations to have those orientation mobility skills down, because yeah you will need them. Advocacy skills as well because you need to be able to talk to your employer and let them know what you need and feel comfortable with that, yeah it's very important. Jeff: Yeah because most colleges aren't that one building school. Kylee: Exactly yep, and a lot of the students that I work with we offer orientation mobility skills, multiple semesters so they can learn their new path, you know each time. After a student's been on campus for a couple of years they pretty much know the layout but, I have no problem each semester bringing in orientation mobility, you, just right away so they feel comfortable with where they're going. Jeff: Well that's great, Kylee how does someone get in contact with State Services for the Blind for the first time? Kylee: The best way to do it is to contact, if you're in the metro to contact our St. Paul office, and they will get you connected with Meredith Larsen, and Meredith does all of our orientation and intakes, and orientation is provided twice a month at different times, so you can come in, learn about all of our services and decide if this is the right program for you. If so then she'll meet with you one-on-one and do an intake and have you sign an application at that point and that kind of, your signing saying yes I'm dedicated to this program, and then from there you'll start working with a counselor. If your you're in the metro it'll be either me or Ashlyn, and if you're in Greater Minnesota there's different counselors out in those areas that also work with our transition youth. Jeff: That's perfect, well Kylee, once again thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come down to the studios here and sharing with us, believe me it's been a wealth of information, so thank you very much. Kylee: Yep, thank you. Jeff: It was a real pleasure talking to Kylee and be sure to check out the show notes where you can find out how to contact State Services for the Blind, and you can find the summer programs that are listed, and some job opportunities you could have for helping out at the summer programs, and to contact State Services in your state be sure to check out AFB.org where they have resources where you can find the services offered in your state. This podcast is produced in part by State Services for the Blind, live, learn, work, and play. [Music] And a big thanks goes out to Chi Chow for his beautiful music, and that's LChiChow on Twitter. Thank You Chi Chow. Once again, thanks for listening, we hope you enjoyed, and until next time, bye-bye. [Music] [Multiple voices] When we share what we see through each other's eyes, we can then begin to bridge the Gap between the limited expectations and the realities of Blind Abilities. For more podcast with the blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on twitter at BlindAbilities, download our app from the app store, Blind Abilities, that's two words, or send us an email at info@blindabilities.com, thanks for listening.

TVI Toolbox - Tools for Success: Meet Devin and Lisa, Son and Mom, Experiencing State Services and the BEP #SuccessStories Blind Abilities presents the TVI Toolbox. Where the collaboration between Teachers, Counselors, Parents, Agencies and the Students themselves help enhance the opportunities for success. Transitioning from high school to college and the workplace is  a major step and the beginning of lifetime goals and aspirations. As Devin , this month’s featured interview in the Success Stories portion of this podcast, experienced the workforce through an internship with the Business Enterprise Program (BEP). The BEP Director John Hulet talks about what to expect and how to get involved with BEP. Devin’s mom, Lisa Ferguson, takes us through her experience as a mom of a child with vision loss and working with State Services for the Blind (SSB). Her perspective along with Devin’s gives us a good idea of how Devin became a member of the workforce at age 15. Job experience, resume writing, learning the public transit system as a means of transportation and developing a relationship with a business owner and the Transition Team at SSB gives Devin and Lisa a wealth of experience moving forward. Full Transcript Below.  From the TVI’s to the Agency counselor’s and program specialist, working together along with parents as well, is creating more opportunities and successes for Transition age students. Sharing experiences through Success Stories, sharing programs that make a positive impact, sharing ideas, findings, upcoming events and the Tools for Success all play a part in making the transition process a natural progression and better understood by all.   Here are the links to the information we bring to this episode.   Transit Tracker App on the App Store https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/transit-tracker/id659183692?mt=8   Join.Me- Screen Sharing Service on the Web. Getting everyone on the same page is easy – so long as join.me instant screen sharing is involved. When you start your join.me meeting, simply press the “Broadcast” button and you’re ready to go. It’s that simple.   Check out your State Services by searching the Services Directory on the AFB.org web site.   State Services for the Blind of Minnesota We offer tools and training for employment and for helping seniors remain independent and active. As Minnesota’s accessible reading source we also transcribe books and other materials into alternative formats, including audio and braille. We assist Minnesotans who are blind, DeafBlind, losing vision, or who have another disability that makes it difficult to read print. I hope you find what you need here. We've also created a Tips for Using Our New Website page. If you’d like to apply for services, learn more, or have more questions, just give us a call. You’ll find contact information for all of our offices on our contact page, or you can call our main office at 651-539-2300.   You can submit to the On The Horizons segment by emailing jessica Hodges   Full Transcript:   Narrator: TVI toolbox is a tool for teachers, for agencies, for clients, to enhance the opportunities and the understanding of transition services; professionals talking about the services they provide, teachers of the visually impaired talking about topics of transitioning from high school, to college, to the work place. Students talking about their journeys, their successes, and some of the barricades and brick walls that were in their way, and solutions, tips, and tricks, on how they got through it. On this episode of TVI toolbox, we have John Hulet, director of the Business Enterprise program from state services for the blind. We also have Devin and Lisa. Devin is a high school student who took part in the Business Enterprise program internship. And Lisa is Devin's mom, and Lisa's going to talk about Devin's experience, and her experience with state services for the blind. And in tools for success, we have a demonstration of transit tracker, an application for busses, trains, timings, and routs, and it's totally accessible. And for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on twitter @blindabilities, and download the free app from the app store. That's two words, blind abilities. This podcast was produced in part by state services for the blind, live, learn, work, and play. And now, here's John Hulet, director of the Business Enterprise Program at state services. So John Hulet, what qualities makes a great business Enterprise program operator?    John: some of the most important attributes would be an individual who's motivated, who's a selfstater, who's willing to learn how to do things, who comes into the program wanting to work and is excited about the idea of operating their own business, but recognizing at the same time that there's a lot of work in operating ones own business.    Narrator: That was John Hulet. They opened up an internship in the Business Enterprise program to a high school student, and we got the opportunity to talk to Devin, and his mother Lisa. She's going to give us the perspective of a mom working with state services for the blind and  the Business Enterprise program.    Lisa: My name is Lisa Ferguson, I'm Devin Westmiller's mom who worked this summer for the BEP through SSB   Narrator: mhm, that's great. How did you first get connected with state services for the blind?    Lisa: I was told about it by his vision teacher Sophie Chaven   Narrator: mm, so the school districts teacher   Lisa: yes   Narrator: And when you contacted them you found opportunities? It seems like he really enjoyed the vending program this summer.    Lisa: oh, for sure, I actually enquired to see if he could do the vending, like go to school and get the certificate for the vending, but as far as I know, or what I was told, he is the youngest one to actually utilize and work through the BEP program.    Narrator: That's great   Lisa: Yeah, so he's a very young fifteen year old, he just turned fifteen   Narrator: So with that experience maybe next summer he can do a little more, and have something lined up for him right upon graduation?    Lisa: Oh, definitely, actually one sooner than that now we can actually make him a resume. We actually did make him a resume and he applied for another job at SSB.    Narrator: And did you use the online Minnesota online job application process?    Lisa: Yes, we did   Narrator: How'd that go?    Lisa: It went good. It was definitely a good learning experience.    Narrator: So what's it like for you to experience state services for the blind?    Lisa: It's been really positive and my, I guess our counselor, Tou Yang has just been on top of this and got a new position, and learning himself on the way, ends up being kind of like a mediator,  person who can kind of make it easier for the main counselor Ashlyn to make everything successful for us. Without him I'm not sure what or how I would have done it, so that was extremely important.    Narrator: The middle man    Lisa: yeah, the middle man is very important. And I"am not saying maybe Ashlyn could have done the same thing, I just dealt with Tou   Narrator: Well, in his position, that exactly, what he's there to do. Ashlyn has other clients, so when someone's in the position that Devin was in, he moves in and segways them into companies or other people where the opportunities are. He's kind of that bridge. So he's a tool of Ashlyn's.    Lisa: Yeah, definitely, I mean he's the one that came to the school like every week, for a while, or a couple times a month, and did those intense assessments, so Devin was able to get to know him, and wen Devin first told me about it, he kind of brought it up, and a few weeks went by, and summer was coming, and he said "I really want to do that vending thing.That was really difficult fro me because we're in the suburbs, and had to go to saintpaul every morning, but we made it work, and he learned how to use the bus, so it was a big learning experience as well using mass transit.   Narrator: Experience is one of the best teachers, so this is something that's going to stick with him for quite a while.    Lisa: Yes, definitely.    Narrator: Yeah, the BEP program in Minnesota is a really good, and you learn a lot from it and see just how business is done, all from a machine, or from the store, which ever you experience, so that's great   Lisa: And eh really liked, what did they call it, Eric Farms was his mentor,    Narrator: Oh, Eric   Lisa: Since he had the stores and the vending machines and he really enjoyed working with Eric, Eric was a great mentor, so that was another big part of the connection experience that we had through SSb meeting Eric and having Eric be completely blind. Devin is legally blind, and doesn't need a lot of the adaptations, but  Eric just was incredible with my son, so. And he's very open to let other people come in, you know, there was other people that Eric has working for him through these programs, it's pretty special.    Narrator: So it's worked out pretty good?    Lisa: Yeah, it's worked out great   Narrator: That's good, and now he's going out and resume building, and filling out a job application, and hopefully a job interview coming up, and that experience, and lots of good stuff. That's great. So what advice would you have for other parents who are experiencing a child that is loosing vision or has vision loss?    Lisa: Take advantage of the services that are out there. Take advantage of SSB, and the Bep program, and put your fingers to the keyboard. Ask questions at the IEP meeting, ask questions to follow it all through. I mean, that's really what it is. You have to really be engaged, and partake in helping find the resources that around as early as possible, and once that's done, you get it in earlier, and they kind of have a path to start from.    Narrator: You mentioned the IEP, the individual education plan?    Lisa: Yes   Narrator: Can you explain that to some parents that may not know what that is?    Lisa: It's a plan that's kind of to, it's through the school that has these special education program, and you need, it's an independent education plan that a group of people or support group at the school get together, and it becomes regulated in the school. If your child needs adaptation needs or specific needs, like my son can wear a baseball hat at school if it's too bright in the room. Just certain little tweaks and things like that that can really help your kid. I mean the latest example is Devin is in tenth grade and taking statistics, and he has to get a calculator, and the calculator, even though he can see, he is limited on his certain vision, looking on a very small screen is difficult, and strain. so I said that's not going to work, we need to find a solution, and so the people that were in the group of the IEP helped me to get an application that he can use on his computer. So he can actually look at the graphing app on his computer instead of a tiny little screen. It just makes the people behind him in the special education program on top of it.    Narrator: Keeps everyone on the same page.    Lisa: Yeah, as long as everyone's engaged, that's the best thing for your child.    Narrator: Now I myself am visually impaired, I wouldn't know what it's like to have a child that lost his eye sight, did you know you would be his best advocate?    Lisa: It came as a bit of a peculiar circumstance, because I am deaf. I wear two hearing aids. Without my hearing aids I'd be eighty percent deaf. I have to do ASL, but luckily I have some really good hearing aids, and so I knew also had special education. Back then they didn't call it special education, they didn't call it IEPs, but we had support, and additional person, at least I was given speech therapy and things like that that I had requested through elementary school, and junior high, and high school. So I know some of the difficulties, having a different kind of disability, and I kind of became my own advocate really young. I didn't really have somebody else to speak for me, so I  had to speak for myself,  I can't hear, I need to sit in the front, I don't know what's going on. And the special education tutor outside of the classroom was very helpful! So it was the same type of thing that we go through we need to lift a helping hand.    Narrator: so you've almost become a roll model too, I mean your achievements, he sees as successful, and now he's getting some success, last summer was a big success, it seems like you guys are on the right path.    Lisa: he wants to...I can't get him a job fast enough.    Narrator: There you go. Now, back in the day people looked at state services for the blind as kind of a last resort if you can't do it yourself, like a safety net, and I'd like to think that we're blowing some good, fresh wind into the place, and they're doing a good job. Like Tou is there, and the whole transition department there has really grown and expanded and put some good focus on getting the job experience that is needed, and it becomes a vehicle for your future.    Lisa: I agree. I guess I, when you were first saying that it was a last resort, absolutely not, it's a first resort   Narrator: That's a great way of putting it because it used to be, back in the day like, you can't pull your bootstraps up, then you go there, and the image is really changed, and that's part of why we're doing some of these podcasts to cast, let people see that  by going to state services for the blind you have opportunities that are created and experience, and you set a foot forward on the right path to succeed   Lisa: yeah, definitely, without a doubt   Narrator: If you actually break down that "Can I do it?" and actually say yes I can.    Lisa: Well I think one of the things is I'm here for Devin, so I can help him . I mean obviously I'm getting the resources to him because he wouldn't know how to ask for them, so I'm guessing there's plenty of people who don't have that extra person do you know what I mean, that can't be reached the way that Devin... you know, luckily we have an IEP, we have a vision teacher, we have somebody to connect us. So I can see it being difficult for people who don't have that person to help them out. And if they don't have a parent or guardian or somebody, whoever they're working with needs to really, I guess, share the information.    Narrator: I've got to hand it to you for being effectively involved in his journey. It's really great that you've had the experience kind of knew the ropes a little bit.   Lisa: Yeah, for sure.    Narrator: You've got to get out there and find them too.    Lisa: Yeah, and I keep searching. I mean, it doesn't end with SSB, but SSB is huge and we're going to continue to use them in the future for connections, job opportunities, living opportunities, training,    Narrator: Training, life skills, orientation and mobility, how to use the transit systems, from all levels, to legally blind to totally blind there's something there, a division there that can help anybody, all the way to seniors, and all the way to, I think Devin's one of the younger ones, I think 14 is the start, or fifteen, and he's already done some work in the summer, so he's got a great start, good job to both of you.    Lisa: Thank you. Yeah, he is   Narrator: It's a team over at SSB.    Lisa: Yeah   Narrator: Lisa thank you for taking the time and coming onto the podcast, and you're doing a great job, you and Devin, and congratulations to all the success you guys have had so far.    Lisa: And thank you for what you're doing for my son, and thanks SSB   Narrator: It's always good to get a perspective of a mom of a child going through state services for the blind, especially the business enterprise program. And now, here's Devin, talking about his experience on the job. And today we're talking to Devin Wesmeller, how are you doing?    Devin: Good    Narrator: Good, could you tell our listeners at blind abilities about who you are, what you do, and what you did last summer?    Devin: I'm a tenth grader, sophomore in high school. I just started the school year. I'm trying to focus.    Narrator: What was it like starting school again, fun?    Devin: Yeah, it's actually pretty good so far   Narrator: That's good. What kind of classes are you taking?    Devin: World history, statistics, history, English.    Narrator: While you're in high school do you use any alternative techniques or any devices to help you for accomplishing accommodations?    Devin: I use a web sight called join.me   Narrator: Join.me?    Devin: Yeah, it's a web sight. All my teachers have it. They sign into it, and They give me a code, and it's a screen share app, so I can see whatever's on their screen through my computer   Narrator: Oh, really! Well that's interesting. join.me, I'll look that up. All your teachers have that, so it's just something that you've come to accept as part of going to school?    Devin: Yeah, and it definitely helps a lot, so I actually like it.    Narrator: That's great. When you're in your school district you have a teacher for the visually impaired?    Devin: Yeah, I most of the time will work with my DHH teacher, but it's mostly about my vision.    Narrator: Ah, and what's a DHH teacher?    Devin: Deaf and hard of hearing teacher, because I have a slight hearing loss.    Narrator: Ok, so last summer, you worked with state services for the blind in Minnesota, and it created an opportunity for you to do some work. Can you tell our listeners a little about that?    Devin: Yeah, it was a vending company, and I worked there for like two months during the summer, and learned all about what it would be like to be a vender.    Narrator: For the business Enterprise program?    Devin: Yeah.    Narrator: That's probably pretty interesting isn't it? How'd you like it?    Devin: It was really fun.    Narrator: Does that open up again for you next year maybe?    Devin:  I hope so.    Narrator: Per sue it, maybe it could happen. Being intense and looking towards the future, have you thought about college at all?    Devin: Kind of, not that much so far.    Narrator: Any interests?    Devin: I'll be starting to think out of it my junior year.    Narrator: mhm, growing up with vision loss, how did that affect your childhood?    Devin: It was hard when I was younger because I didn't I wore special glasses, really dark to help with light sensitivity, and I had to wear big sunglass goggles, and I couldn't see very well through them. Other than that, I was fine in class, I did pretty ok.    Narrator: How  do you access your computer today?    Devin: As long as I'm close, or I zoom in a little bit I can see it.    Narrator: Is there any devices such as an iPhone, or a computer...what's your favorite a PC or a Mac?    Devin: I just use a chromebook from my school    Narrator: Ah. So do you like the iPhone?    Devin: Yeah, I like the iPhone 5S   Narrator: Do you use the accessibility feature of the zoom?    Devin: Yeah, sometimes, I need it if I can't zoom in on something.    Narrator: That's pretty nice to have that central zoom from the apple products.   Devin: Yeah.    Narrator: So Devin, what kind of hobbies do you do? what kind of stuff do you do for leisure, entertainment, and all that stuff?    Devin: I like to hang out with friends, and study hard, because I'm starting the year really good.    Narrator: In the business Enterprise program when you got introduced to that, what was your day like? When you started, when you showed up for work, until you got done?    Devin: I just started on the vending machines, started the store, made sure they were nice and stocked for the day. Because they were the best sellers.    Narrator: So you'd have to open them up and pull up the trays, and make sure all of them are full, and...   Devin: Yeah, because e they were all bought from a lot.   Narrator: There was opportunity to make some money there.    Devin: Yeah   Narrator: Did you get into some of the soda machines and the coffee machines that type of thing?    Devin: Yeah, yeah I learned how to go in the back, and stack the right way, and soda machine, and clean the coffee vending machine.   Narrator: It's not all fun and games, is it?    Devin: No, it takes a lot.    Narrator: Mhm, so do you think this will be something that other people might be get interested in?    Devin: Yeah, I think so, I thought it was really fun.    Narrator: What's the suggestions you have for other people who are looking for summer work and are visually impaired.    Devin: I think they should use state services for the blind because of the opportunities they gave me.    Narrator: And how would someone get a hold of state services for the blind?    Narrator: My mom told me she wanted to sign me up for this thing that would help me in the future and it was state services for the blind. I thought it was a good idea, because I hadn't had any work experience so I wanted to get some. We asked if their were any opportunities in the summer.    Narrator: Great. Well, Devin,thank you very much, thanks for coming on to Blind Abilities.    Devin: Thanks , thank you   Narrator: It's really great to know that Devin's got a little bit of job experience now and wants to go back. And if you're interested in getting job experience, contact your state services for the blind and see what they can do for you. Now, here's John Hulet. He's going to tell you a little bit about if you're interested in the Business Enterprise Program.    John: Well first of all, I think it's important that anybody that's listening to this is interested in the program they should contact me to talk about it. One of the things I like to talk about with folks when we're first starting out is to let them know how the program operates. Because their's a list of available vending investment opportunities in the state, and our BEP venders typically stay in the program for twenty, sometimes forty plus years, it can be challenging to know when an opportunity will become available. though this type of challenge exists, we are always excited about meeting potential participants, discussing the program in greater detail with them, and looking at potential vending business opportunities that may exist. The training is a compilation of interviews, assessments, job shadowing, online training, in house equipment training, and on the job training. This business can take six to nine months to complete.    Narrator: There you have it. If you're interested in owning your own business, want to work hard, and be your own boss, contact your state services and enquire about the Business Enterprise program. And now, tools for success. And today, we're going to be looking at an app that helps with bus routs, train routs, something you can pull out, turn it on, and it will tell you when the next bus is coming, or train, in real time. So I've opened up my iPhone, hit the icon   VoiceOver: Transit Tracker   Narrator: And here I am. It starts out, in default, I open it up, and I'm at the left hand corner, so I'm going to swipe  to the right with one finger.    VoiceOver: Transit tracker, MSP, heading.    Narrator: So it's set for Minneapolis and Saintpaul.    VoiceOver: Refresh, button   Narrator: Hitting this button will refresh all the routs populated on your screen.    VoiceOver: N features visible.    Narrator: There is a map provided, which takes up about a two inch square on the screen, and since we're using VoiceOver, it's not going to give us much information, so I will keep swiping, single finger left to right. It comes up to my location that I'm at right now   VoiceOver: East River road and 69th way.   Narrator: So now we'll continue swiping left to right, single finger,, and it starts telling me the routs that the GPS has located for me at my destination.    VoiceOver: 852, north bound 852 A Express/North town Oka tech, next scheduled departure, 1:53 PM    Narrator: So, if I swipe again,    VoiceOver: 852, south bound, 852 south bound 7nnMPLS, next scheduled departure, 1:56 PM    Narrator: So that's pretty nice. River road runs north to south, and it's telling me what's coming, and the time. So, what if I wanted to find other routs? Up in the upper left hand corner, there's a button, four finger single tap near the top will put my VoiceOver cursor right on the top.    VoiceOver: Top of screen.    Narrator: Swipe to the  left,    VoiceOver: Button   Narrator: Now this is not labeled, but I know it's the menu, and you could label this button by doing a two finger single tap and hold and then typing in, menu. So here goes, two finger double tap and hold?    VoiceOver: Alert, text field, is editing, label, insertion point at start. M, E, N, U, save, button.    Narrator: Ok, I'll try a four finger single tap near the top   VoiceOver: Transit tracker   Narrator: and a single finger swipe to the left,    VoiceOver: Menu, button.    Narrator: There it is, it's now labeled. In this method of labeling a button or something that you would like to have labeled works across the board. So remember, a two finger double tap and hold brings up the dialogue box that will label that button. So, let's go check out the menu. Single finger double tap   VoiceOver: Transit Tracker, MSP. Trip planner   Narrator: Trip planner is where you can type in a destination. You have two criteria's, the time you want to leave, and the time that you arrive the destination. So say I wanted to get there by five o'clock, it would then calculate what time I would need to leave on what route to arrive there at five o'clock. Or, if I wanted to leave here at three, it would then let me know when I'd arrive at my destination. Trip planner's a great option if you're not so sure what time it's going to take to get there, and to make sure you're on time.    VoiceOver: Routs/stops   Narrator: If I was to click on this, I could then search for any bus number that I would like. That's called a rout. If I was to choose from a stop, I could type in the stop number, and it would tell me the busses and times, and typically I'd just look for the bus number. Moving down the menu list, It will show me the forms of transportation that I have to choose from.    VoiceOver: Transit type. Selected, bus, train, northstar, amtrack    Narrator: So there you go, those are your four choices. So when you find a rout that you take frequently, or a series of routs that you take frequently, you then have the option to save it, right here in the menu.    VoiceOver: Saved.    Narrator: That's really nice, because typically, with GPS, always looking for the busses that are in your vicinity, wherever you are. So say you're two blocks away at a restaurant or coffee shop, anticipating a bus arrival. you could then go to your saved stops, and see what's happening there. So that's a little overview of Transit Tracker. Download it to your phone, check it out, and I believe for 4.99 you can upgrade to a no advertisement, the ability to save your routs, a little more, robust it makes it. I did it, and it's real worth it, but you can use the free version as well. So thanks for checking out tools for success. And remember, for more podcasts with a blindness perspective, check us out on the web at www.blindabilities.com, on twitter @blindabilities, and download the free blind abilities app from the app store, that's two words, blind abilities. 

Finding a job can take a lot of work. But what if you could get in front of a recruiter--someone who is paid to find great employees? Like a fairy godmother, couldn't a recruiter make your wish for a dream job come true? And by doing so, save you a lot of time and effort? The truth is, recruiters can make a big difference in your job search, but they can't do it all. In this 32-minute episode you will learn: What recruiters do, who they work for, and how they get paid How to find the right recruiter for you and your industry How to start a relationship with a recruiter or recruiting firm What you should (and shouldn’t) expect from a recruiter This week’s guest: Steve Potestio (@Potestio)Partner and CEO, Mathys+PotestioPortland, OR       Listener question of the week: How can I keep up with new media jobs? Do you have a question you’d like us to answer on a future episode? Please send your questions to Cecilia Bianco, Mac’s List Community Manager, at cecilia@macslist.org. Resources referenced on this week’s show: Mashable.com - 20 Tools to Show Off Your Portfolio The Deeply Graphic Design Podcast Social Media Examiner Mashable.com Inc. Magazine Forbes Technology SnapChat Canva Free Online Photo Editor Hootsuite Social Media Management Edgar Social Media Management The Business of Strangers (2001) Mathys+Potestio Find Your Dream Job in Portland (and Beyond): The Complete Mac’s List Guide If you have a job-hunting or career development resource resource you’d like to share, please contact Ben Forstag, Mac’s List Managing Director, at ben@macslist.org. -- Thank you for listening to Find Your Dream Job. If you like this show, please help us by rating and reviewing our podcast on iTunes. We appreciate your support! Opening and closing music for “Find Your Dream Job” provided by Freddy Trujillo, www.freddytrujillo.com.   FULL TRANSCRIPT BELOW:  Mac Prichard: Welcome to Find Your Dream Job. We're the podcast that helps you get hired and have the career you want, and make a difference in life. I'm Mac Prichard, your host. I'm the publisher of Mac's List. On today's show, we're discussing how to work with an executive recruiter. Looking for a job is hard work. You know that. We've all been there. Before you set on to your first application or you go to an interview, you need to confirm your career goals, and you have to update your online profiles. You need to network. You need to do lots and lots of networking. Again, that's a lot of hard work. Not surprisingly, many of us, including me, have wondered, "Isn't there another way--an easier way--that lets you cut to the front of the application line?" What if you could get in front of a recruiter, somebody who is paid to find great employees? Like a fairy godmother, couldn't a recruiter make your wish for a dream job come true, and by doing so save you a lot of time and effort? Recruiters can make a big difference in your job search, but they can't do it all. This week, we're talking to a recruiter, Steve Potestio. He's one of the best in the business. He works with digital firms and writers, graphic designers, and other creative workers all across the country. Steve is going to share with us what recruiters can do and what they can't do, and how you can make the most of that experience. First, let's check in with the Mac's List team. Joining me as always in our downtown studio here in Portland, Oregon are Ben Forstag, our management director, and Cecilia Bianco, our community manager. Hello Ben and Cecilia. Cecilia Bianco: Hi Mac, how are you? Ben Forstag: Hi Mac. Mac Prichard: Good, I'm doing well. Confess, have you had that fantasy that the phone is going to ring one day, and it will be a recruiter offering you your dream job? Ben Forstag: During my last unemployment stint, which was about four months long, I had that fantasy every day, or that hope at least. Mac Prichard: How about you Cecilia? Cecilia Bianco: I actually really haven't, but I've talked to a lot of recruiters through my job at Mac's List, and I think it's a dream a lot of people have. Mac Prichard: There is real value when working with a recruiter. They can make a huge difference, but like anything, you don't want to rely in just one strategy alone. I've never actually been approached by a recruiter about a job, though I have been contacted by different recruiters looking for candidates. Cecilia, you're out there in the community a lot. What's been your experience working with recruiters? Cecilia Bianco: They're always just looking for it seems very specific people to their agency. Anytime I get an email from one of them, they have almost an exact person in mind with certain experience. Mac Prichard: I find that too. I also find that they contact people like us, because they're looking for recommendations about trusted candidates, people who fit that criteria. Even if the phone rings, and they're not offering a job, but if it's a recruiter at the other end of the line, I think there's a real value in building that relationship. We'll talk more to Steve about that later in the show. Before we do that, let's check in with Ben, because when it comes to online career resources, Wikipedia has nothing on Ben Forstag. Every week, he explores the internet looking for blogs, podcasts, and other tools you could use in your job search. Ben, what have you uncovered for us this week? Ben Forstag: Mac, given the theme of today's show, I wanted to share two different resources that I thought might be particularly useful to anyone exploring a career in creative services, so graphic designers, writers, anyone who does creative things for a living. The first one is a blog post I found on the mashable.com website. Cecilia, I know you go to Mashable every day. Cecilia Bianco: Often. Ben Forstag: This is a site that's about all things digital and media. It's a great tool. This blog post comes from 2013. It's 20 Tools to Show Off Your Portfolio. If you're going to be working in the creative industry, that really means you need to present your work on the web so that everyone could see what you do. The online platform you use to show off your work might be just as important as the material you're showcasing. As you can imagine, it doesn't matter how good the work you put on it is if your website looks dated, or if it doesn't work. That's going to not reflect well on you as a professional. This blog, the 20 Tools to Showcase Your Portfolio, it outlines 20 different platforms you could use to showcase your art, your writing, whatever creative output you have. I'll admit, I don't have a portfolio myself. Cecilia, I know that you do. What platform do you use? Cecilia Bianco: I actually have a customized WordPress platform, but I think about every single journalism school student at University of Oregon all used this Cargo Collective. It's definitely one of the easiest tools to make one. Ben Forstag: Mac, when you're looking at candidates for contract work or vendors, is there a given platform that you prefer, or is it just whatever you find? Mac Prichard: One feature I like about LinkedIn is there is portfolio section. I don't think it's on your list. LinkedIn is always a stop for an employer who is checking on the candidate. In addition to the good ideas on your list, I would encourage candidates to think about using the portfolio section of LinkedIn. Ben Forstag: On LinkedIn, you can add projects now. I know I uploaded some magazines that I edited in my previous job there. That's a great tool as well. There are 20 different platforms here that they suggest. Some that are more known, some that might be new on the scene, tools like Carbonmade, Behance, Dribbble, that's with three Bs, Dunked to Viewbook, and Cargo Collective. Again, this is post is on Mashable. It's 20 tools to showcase your portfolio. It's another blog with a really long URL. We'll include this in the show notes, or you can Google it on Mashable. The other resource I want to share with you is a podcast I discovered recently. Mac Prichard: Another podcast, you're listening to other podcasts. Ben Forstag: I'm cheating on the podcast. When you're done with this podcast, when you've downloaded them all, and listened to them all and rated us positively, you can go check out this other podcast. It's called the Deeply Graphic DesignCast. This is a podcast for graphic designers, web designers, and visual designers. It's produced by a graphic design studio in LA called The Deep End. The episodes explore different design-related topics from finding better clients to online portfolios, hot trends in design, and making sure you get paid for your work, things like that. I've always had a fantasy of monetizing my hobby of painting, and so I like hearing these things on how other people are doing stuff in the creative arts. Don't worry Mac, I'm not going anywhere. I'd get to sell a single painting in five years. Like our podcast, they answer listener questions. The nice thing about this podcast is it's been around since 2011, and they regularly produce episodes. They've got 95 episodes. It's about one every week. It's a great resource, a fun little podcast, entertaining. I suggest you check it out. Again, the Deeply Graphic DesignCast, and we'll have the link to that in the show notes. Mac Prichard: Those are great suggestions. I didn't know that you painted. I look forward to seeing some of your paintings one day. Ben Forstag: I'll bring you over to the studio someday. Mac Prichard: Do you have an idea for Ben? Just write him. You can reach him at ben@macslist.org. We may share your idea on the show. Now, we want to hear from you our listeners. Let's turn it over to Cecilia, our community manager. Cecilia, what's the question of the week? Cecilia Bianco: Our question this week is, "How can I keep up with new media jobs?" To get a new media job, the most important skill you can have is knowing how to tell a visual story. New media has largely turned into visual communication. As we all know, in this office, we've done presentations about this. Being able to use the tools and platforms available to tell a visual story is the key thing. You want to be comfortable with video editing tools, even if it's just a simple as iMovie on your Mac computer. I know Ben is a pro at iMovie. Also photo editing tools such as the Adobe suite with InDesign and Photoshop. There's also a lot of online tools that are free and easier to manage than Adobe. Overall, the more skills and tools you master, the better off you're going to be. Mac and Ben, I'm sure you both have some go-to resources to keep up with new media. Do you have any favorites? Ben Forstag: To be honest, my resource for all thing social media are probably my teenage nieces and nephews. They know about these things well before I do certainly. I remember a few years ago when my nieces were trying to show me about Snapchat. At that time, I thought, "Well, this is the silliest thing I've ever seen. Why would you ever need to know this?" From what I've been told, this is now a platform that lots of professionals are using. I know my favorite baseball team has a Snapchat account. I know several serious journalists do Snapchat accounts. It's a serious thing. I guess what I'm saying is I should be listening more to my nieces and nephews, take what they say seriously. Cecilia Bianco: Definitely, Snapchat has become important along with a lot of other platforms. With new media, there is always a new platform that people are jumping on and using. To stay up to date with those, you need to have some go-to resources beyond your nieces and nephews probably. I would suggest a few E newsletters such as the Social Media Examiner. Ben mentioned I'm a big fan of Mashable, Ink Magazine. The Forbes technology section is also great. Mac, do you have any to add? Mac Prichard: I just want to support your point that it's so important to keep improving our skills. One trend I see in social media platforms is tools that used to be standalone applications increasingly are being incorporated into Facebook, Instagram, and the other big popular apps. As we reach out to people online, taking advantage of those tools gets a lot easier, because they're much more intuitive, and simpler, and easier to use than say Photoshop even three to five years ago. Cecilia Bianco: I agree. With some of the platforms like Canva is basically Photoshop, but it's free. It's very easy to use. You can teach yourself in an hour. It can be really intimidating to try and learn those tools, but I think if you set small goals like signing up for new newsletters, or mastering a new skill every month, it becomes a lot more manageable. Mac Prichard: That's excellent advice, breaking tasks down into smaller achievable pieces, whether it's mastering a new skill or taking the next step in your job search. Ben Forstag: I know we've talked about social media tools in previous episodes, but let me just ask you Cecilia. If you had to pick the top three that someone should be comfortable using, what would those top three social media tools be? Cecilia Bianco: I would definitely pick at least one photo editing, one video editing, and then probably one management tool. Canva for photos, iMovie for videos, and maybe HootSuite or the new Edgar social media management tool would be key. Ben Forstag: Thanks. Mac Prichard: Great advice. It's very telling and right on target that two of the three you mentioned were visual tools, because so much online communication and so much media work now is all about visuals except of course this podcast. There is that. These segments by Ben and Cecilia are sponsored by the Mac's List guides. We're the publisher of a new book, here at Mac's List. It's called land Your Dream Job in Portland and Beyond. You'll find in our guides, the tools you need to get the job you want. We tackle the questions that are on your mind. How do I find about hidden jobs? What can I do to standout when I'm competing against dozens of other people for the same position? What do I need to do next to manage my career? In our book, there are eight chapters. You'll find experts who share insight or knowledge about how they learn about jobs that are never posted, and what you can do to interview and negotiate like a pro. Check it out for yourself. You can download the first chapter of the book for free. Just go to our website. The address is macslist.org/macslistguides. Steve Potestio co-owns Mathys and Potestio. It's a recruitment firm for the creative and digital industries. His company has offices in Portland, Austin, and Los Angeles. Steve knows how recruiters work. He's worked with more than 100 agencies, and he's helped place thousands of professionals into jobs. He's also been a copywriter, a graphic designer, a project manager, an account manager, and he was the director of operations for a large digital agency during the dot-com era. Steve, that's quite a background. Steve Potestio: Thank you. Mac Prichard: Thank you for joining us. Let me start with one example I think people have in their heads when they think about recruiters. I'm going to into the way back machine. There is a wonderful movie starring Stockard Channing. It's called the Business of Strangers. It came out in the early 1990's. It's about corporate intrigue, and it reflects popular ideas about corporate culture in those years. In the plot, Channing is a high-powered executive. She hears rumors that she's about to lose her job. The first thing she does is she picks up the phone, and she calls a recruiter. They both traveled to an airport. They have a meeting in the lounge. He brings his briefcase, and he reaches into it. There he has job openings that pay six-figure salaries. They talk about what position she might take next if she indeed loses her position inside the company. That's one way people think of recruiters. What would you say to that popular image, Steve? Steve Potestio: I'm laughing because if that was the case, that would be cool that we just have a briefcase full of jobs. That's cool. That is I think a common misperception of our industry. We are actually out there beating the bushes every day trying to build relationships with companies so that we do in fact have opportunities. We're not walking around with briefcases full of them. We're not having any clandestine meetings. Actually, a good recruiter would probably do a little bit more than the recruiter in the movie. That is really establishing a relationship with the individual, and talking about their needs and what they're looking for, and what's a good fit for them prior to opening up that briefcase, and just start trotting out a bunch of jobs. Mac Prichard: Let's put aside the Hollywood image. Let's talk about how the business really works. Tell us about the recruitment business and how you look for candidates, and what you're looking for. Steve Potestio: One thing about a recruiter to realize is the recruiter serves two masters. On one side is the individual, the candidate that is looking for a job. On the other side is the hiring company, the business client. A good recruiter is trying to build relationships, and understand both equally so that they are able to put the two together successfully. Generally, the client company, the hiring company is the firm that pays our bills if you will. It is natural that recruiters could lean toward that side, and really focus more on servicing that side. I think the best recruiters really walk right down the middle of the street. Mac Prichard: You talked about the firms that you work for. They're the ones who are paying you. How do you get paid? I know there are different forms of compensation for recruiters. Steve Potestio: There are different types of recruitment. There is different types of, I guess, logistical types of jobs. You're going to see recruiters that work on full-time salary positions only. You're going to see recruiters that will also work on contract type assignments, and then recruiters that will work on both. Some of it is what situation are you looking for as an individual, and then finding the recruiter that works within those situations. If you're looking for a full-time job, the recruiter is paid if a candidate that they have introduced is selected and hired by that client company. That client company will pay that recruiter or recruiting firm a fee for having found that individual. Recruiters work on what's called contingency placements. They do not get paid until they have successfully placed someone into a job. Mac Prichard: I think the other approach is called the retainer. Can you talk about the differences between a firm that works on retainer versus contingency? Is there any advantage to a job seeker to work with one firm over another? Steve Potestio: Being a good recruiter, the candidate probably won't necessarily know the difference if that recruiter is on a retainer or on a contingency. That should be something that they don't really necessarily even have insight into. A retained search generally is limited to executive level, C level types of positions. Most companies will not pay for a retained search if they are looking for staff level or management level unless again it's an executive suite level position. For example, in my business, we haven't had a retained search in probably five years. Mac Prichard: I'm often asked when I meet with people informational interviews, and this is a question Cecilia who talks to our community all the time also receives: how do you approach a recruiter? Getting back to that image of the fellow with the briefcase, even if that's not the reality, there are advantages in having a relationship with the recruiter. Walk us through how someone should find someone in their field, and how they might approach a recruiter. Steve Potestio: One of the most important things is finding someone in your field. The reason that is so important is because the recruiter should understand you, and your background, and your experience better than someone who may be has not been exposed to the type of work that you do. Finding someone that understands the type of work that you do is pretty key. They should then also have a client business hiring company relationships in that same industry. They're going to be potentially more equipped to be able to assist you. Then it's just a matter of reaching out to that person, whether it's LinkedIn or email or a phone call. Again, I reference maybe good recruiters and maybe not so good recruiters, but I think a good recruiter is somebody who is looking out for your best interest, and maybe willing to talk to you even if they don't have something immediate that potentially fits their needs or your needs, an immediate potential job opportunity fit. A recruiter should invest the time to meet with you, get to know you, because they may have that opportunity for you in one week, or one month, or three months. Some recruiters fall into the trap of only working on what's in their immediate workload, and not looking down the road. Mac Prichard: Look for a way to establish a long-term relationship with the recruiter. Let's back up Steve. I'm just thinking of our listeners. They love actionable ideas. They want practical instruction about concrete steps they can take next. Imagine that one of our listeners is sitting in front of a computer. They want to find the recruiter in their field. What do they do next? Do they go to Google? Do they go to LinkedIn? Walk us through how you would actually identify say a recruiter in your field? I know you work with digital creatives, designers, writers, and similar professions. Steve Potestio: On my LinkedIn account, I have an ability to do advance searches. If you don't have that ability, I think you have to pay for that. I would go to Google, and I would Google and find out the companies. Then I would go to LinkedIn, and I would look at the company profiles, and I would look at the recruiter profiles, and again, trying to find individuals or recruitment firms that specialize in your area. Mac Prichard: I'm a writer. I sit down, and I Google executive recruiters, or recruiters, writers, the community where I live in, whether it's Portland, Oregon, Chicago. I know you have offices in Austin and Las Vegas as well. Up pops the name of several firms and recruiters, how do I approach these people? Do I send an email? Do I make a phone call? What's the practical way of doing that? Steve Potestio: I'll back up again too. The first thing that you should be doing is looking at your own toolbox, and making sure you're ready to contact the recruiter. That recruiter, one of the first things they're going to do is they're going to examine your resume. They're going to examine your background. They're going to go on to your LinkedIn profile. If they see things that are a mess, or they're not seeing the type of professional that they feel that they can comfortably represent, they may be less inclined to respond to your inquiry. Again, a good recruiter and a good recruitment firm will respond to every single person that reaches out to them, but many don't. Mac Prichard: What is helpful to you as a recruiter? What kind of requests do you like to receive? After people have paid attention to the basics, and they put their LinkedIn profile in order, do you like to get a phone call, an email? What works best? Steve Potestio: An email works best because that enables the recruiter or the recruitment firm to take a closer look at the individual's background, and to really assess their ability to help that person. A phone call, they're still going to ask for some time to dig a little deeper into the individual's background. I don't want to discourage people from not picking up the phone, but the recruitment firm really needs to evaluate their ability to assist the individual. If they don't feel like the individual has the right background, and they in turn don't have the right client base to assist that individual, they should hopefully be pointing them in a different direction. A lot of it is really evaluating their ability to help that person. Mac Prichard: That's the best way to approach you. What mistakes do you see people make when they attempt to work with recruiters? Steve Potestio: I don't know the mistakes that they make when they initially reach out, but I think people need to have realistic expectations of what a recruiter or a recruitment firm can do for them. We cannot manufacture job opportunities for them. We may have that briefcase full of job openings, but if none of those job openings match that individuals' background and what they're looking for, then it doesn't matter that we have a briefcase full of job openings. They're not the ones for you. People just need to be realistic that yes, we are out there doing everything we can to build relationships with clients so that chances are greater that we may have opportunities for you, but it's never a given. Mac Prichard: A number of possibilities, people can approach you all, begin to build a relationship. There might be a suitable opening, and it might actually lead to a job offer. In other instances, people may go down that path, and not get an offer, or there may not be openings at the moment. For those who don't get a job out of this process, what's the best way to build and maintain a long-term relationship with the recruiter? Steve Potestio: I'm glad you asked that. I've been doing this, gee, longer than I've carried a [inaudible 00:27:29] over close to 20 years. Smart candidates and smart recruiters do look at it as a long-term ongoing proposition. There are many people that I have placed into jobs. They have in turn called me and asked me for new hires for their department or their company. In turn a couple of years down the road, they may be a candidate again. A good recruiter would want to invest that time and would want to keep tabs on your career. I think being a good candidate working with the recruiter, you keep that recruiter up to date in terms of what you're doing on your own. Again, a recruiter or a recruiting firm is one avenue that you should be pursuing. It's definitely something to pursue, but it's only one avenue in your job search. Mac Prichard: I'm glad you made that point, because I think sometimes people tend to put all of their eggs in one basket, whether it's focusing on a recruiter or one opportunity at one organization, which could be attractive, but you'd never know what might work out. It's always good to be pursuing how to find several different opportunities. Steve Potestio: What happens when you don't is it's the old image of the person at home waiting for the phone to ring on Friday night to see if they're going to get that one date that they've been after. That one person doesn't call. Will stay home for the night? Maybe that's a bad analogy, because then that means that person is pursuing many, many, many potential suitors. Maybe that's a bad analogy, but at the same time, the job seeker does need to pursue many different avenues unless they want to just be in a long and prolong job search. Mac Prichard: That's an excellent point to stop at. Steve, how can people learn more about you and find you online? Steve Potestio: Our website is a great way to connect with us. We actually are also very active on social media. We have a very vibrant Facebook page. We do a lot of tweets. Our website actually posts a lot of information that is similar to Mac's List geared toward professional development and helping people. Really, that's the best way to connect with all of the various channels that we are trying to put information and content out to. Mac Prichard: That's terrific. Thank you for your time Steve. Steve Potestio: Thank you Mac. I appreciate it. Mac Prichard: We're back in the studio with Ben and Cecilia. There's a lot of food for thought there from Steve, wasn't there? Ben Forstag: There was. Cecilia Bianco: Definitely a lot of questions I had about recruiters, he covered it all. Mac Prichard: I just want to thank you all for nodding knowingly. I expect you don't know who Stockard Channing is. Ben Forstag: No idea. Cecilia Bianco: I have no idea. Mac Prichard: You had to be there back in the 1990's. She was huge. Ben Forstag: I was there just, I guess, not paying attention to movies. Mac Prichard: I went too far too many movies. Actually, I was looking up this movie. I couldn't find it in the Wikipedia. I had to find it elsewhere. It's obscure, but well worth the watch. It does underscore a popular image we have of recruiters. I think Steve has helped us understand that working with the recruiter can be valuable, but you don't want to rely just on recruiters. Ben Forstag: I thought the most interesting was how recruiters get paid. I didn't really know that much about recruiting. I always had this vague idea that they would take a percentage of my salary. I don't know where I got that notion, but it's good to know that the job seeker is not the person who's paying for that service. It's usually the employer. Cecilia Bianco: I agree. I have that question too. I've always wondered what the actual breakdown was. It was interesting to hear exactly where the money goes and how they make their money, because it seems in my opinion that recruiters usually cater a lot to the job seeker, but really, their paying customer is the employer. Mac Prichard: One thing to keep in mind if you're contacted by a recruiter. Steve talked about this. The recruiters that are hired on contingency, a company may work with two or three recruiters for the same position, so a recruiter can be an advocate for you. If however you don't get hired or one of the candidates doesn't get hired, they don't get paid. It can be a tough business. Again, working with the recruiters can be rewarding, and we encourage our listeners to explore that. Steve had some very practical ideas about next steps you could take if you want to do that. Thank you for listening. We'll be back next week with more tools and tips you can use to find your dream job. In the meantime, as always, visit us at macslist.org. You can sign up there for our free newsletter, where you'll find more than 100 new jobs every week. If you like what you hear on our show, help us out by leaving a review and a rating at iTunes. We're determined to crack the top 10 list in the career section of iTunes. To do that, we need your help. Please take a moment, and we'd appreciate it. This will help others discover our show and share the information. Thanks for listening.