Podcasts about msp

The dominant structural shift highlighted is margin pressure and business model viability for MSPs due to workforce reduction driven by AI automation. This is exemplified by Microsoft's introduction of Agent365—an enterprise product licensing AI agents rather than human users—and industry reports forecasting that 30–50% of white-collar jobs may be replaced by AI technologies, according to publication summaries referenced during discussion. The shift fundamentally threatens the per-seat managed services pricing model that has anchored MSP revenue. Evidence of mounting financial risk is provided by the scenario where clients may halve their seat counts within a two-to-three-year window. As stated, this adjustment would immediately cut monthly recurring revenue (MMR) for MSPs. The discussion connects this trend to Microsoft's evolving licensing model and notes an industry-wide consensus reflected in a Capterra survey, which found all surveyed MSPs in 2024 facing significant increases in local competition. The implication is that margin pressure from both automation and intensifying competition is occurring simultaneously. Additional developments reinforce the risks to stability. Security complexity and associated liability are increasing, as non-specialist teams—originally tasked with legacy IT functions—are now expected to take responsibility for security operations without adequate expertise. This burden is heightened by the emergence of unmanaged AI adoption at client organizations, creating new avenues for data exposure and regulatory risk. Surveyed business owners are considering exit or consolidation, citing inability or unwillingness to restructure business models to accommodate these changes. Peer group participation is recognized as widespread but not a direct countermeasure to these structural challenges. For MSPs and IT service providers, the practical implications are clear: reliance on the per-seat model is a growing contract risk, with revenue volatility linked to workforce automation outpacing both the speed of traditional service adaptation and client technology adoption. Accountabilities around AI risk, security governance, and compliance are expanding—often without a corresponding increase in compensable scope or staff capability. Operators must assess vendor dependency (especially in rapidly shifting software licensing models), realign service portfolios towards advisory, compliance, and security, and prepare for sustained market turbulence marked by shrinking margins and rising operational complexity. Supported by:  Small Biz Thoughts Community Sign up for the SMB Online Conference: www.smbonlineconference.com

Send us Fan MailClayton Mouney joins Joey Pinz for a powerful conversation on leadership, accountability, entrepreneurship, and where the MSP industry is heading next.

MSP at the bottom of a list (for once), another show coming to the new Mystic Lake Amphitheater and thanks for filling up Target Field, Dodgers fans!??! See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The 7 Principles of Successful Partnering in the Age of AI Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this engaging session, Vince Menzione reflects on his extensive career transitioning from direct enterprise sales to building massive channel ecosystems, while unveiling the seven core operating principles essential for modern partnering. Highlighting tectonic industry shifts—from the PC and Cloud eras to the current AI revolution—Vince explains how traditional playbooks are becoming obsolete and why adopting a growth mindset, modeled by leaders like Satya Nadella, is critical for survival. He delves into the rising importance of hyperscaler marketplaces and co-selling, urging leaders to cultivate adaptability (AQ), emotional intelligence (EQ), and mutual trust to thrive in this rapidly changing tech landscape. https://youtu.be/5n8dqiamnmE Key Takeaways Traditional industry playbooks are outdated almost immediately due to the rapid acceleration of AI and market changes. Implementing a “growth mindset” is a foundational operating principle that can transform corporate culture and drive massive valuation increases. Executive commitment and clarity of vision are mandatory for aligning an entire organization around successful partnering. Building a strong brand story and maintaining a maniacal focus on OKRs turns strategic vision into executed results. The technology landscape has experienced massive tectonic shifts from the PC era to the Cloud, Mobile, and now AI, requiring high adaptability (AQ). Mutual trust remains the non-negotiable foundation for any successful professional relationship or partnership. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Vince Menzione, growth mindset, Satya Nadella, channel building, tech ecosystem, tectonic shifts, AI revolution, co-selling strategies, hyperscaler marketplaces, organizational alignment, executive commitment, OKRs execution, AQ strategy, mutual trust, B2B technology Transcript [00:00:00] Vince Menzione: Because I think we’re all paralyzed by AI and all the changes that are going on in our world, and playbooks are no longer good because they’re outdated the week after they come out. [00:00:12] Vince Menzione: We just came back from Ultimate Partner live in Bellevue, Washington, where we hosted incredible leaders for two amazing days. Come join us for this next session where we explore the tectonic shifts we’ve all been seeing. What a list. Oh my gosh. I gotta tell you, I was just going back this morning and, and looking to see first of all the number, the sheer number is incredible. [00:00:36] Vince Menzione: But look at, look at all these top executives. These are, these are like market movers. The game changers. These are people that are doing more in our world, in our ecosystem than most others. And we are very fortunate to have the representation from these organizations. From these leaders in the room, and we try to curate an event that is more than a, a sales pitch. [00:01:00] Vince Menzione: We’re, in fact, we, we’re not a sales pitch. We’re all about, you know, helping you achieve more. And we try to frame that around operating principles. So, uh, a little bit of a roadmap lately. I mean, this started out like how did we get here in like, maybe five spots along the way. But, uh, for those of you who don’t know me and my background, and I’ve had an incredible career, I’ve been very blessed. [00:01:20] Vince Menzione: I did a startup that we grew from 6 million to 125 million. Went public on the Toronto Exchange. I’m still friends with the CEO, by the way. Helped, helped him grow and exit that company. Uh, I then followed one of the leaders there to go do a turnaround with Golden Gate Capital, and we took that and that’s where I built my first channel. [00:01:37] Vince Menzione: I went from doing enterprise sales as a direct seller, direct sales leader, VP to then going to building a channel. During nine 11, uh, this company was selling rugged notebook computers. Our biggest competitor was not a US company, and I spent a lot of time on Capitol Hill. I met with several congressmen and senators at a time when people did that, and they talked to each other. [00:01:58] Vince Menzione: And, uh, I built a channel. I got its a GSA schedule, and I understood. So I understood intuitively, even from that point in my career, how to move, how to shift from direct selling to building a channel, building a business around that. We became the growth engine of the company. One of my partners was one of the largest defense contractors, general Dynamics. [00:02:19] Vince Menzione: They had the big contract if you were selling to the US Army. And I knocked down the door basically and said, you got a partner with us. And that’s how we got the relationship established. And they wound up buying us for like 10 x what Golden Gate Capital had had spun us out for. And then Microsoft recruited me. [00:02:36] Vince Menzione: And for almost 10 years I was the GM of public sector partner strategy. And so I was, I was there and we’ll talk about Satya and other things, but I was there when we started the cloud. I was there when we pivoted the business from the old model and working with OEMs and trying to, to do things a different way to the cloud and co-selling and things like that. [00:02:56] Vince Menzione: And, uh, had a great experience. And then when I left I was like, oh, I’m just gonna go work for another big tech company. I started a podcast. I had a friend who said, you should do a podcast on partnering. You know a lot about this more than you probably think you do. And almost 10 years ago, I started a podcast in a spare bedroom. [00:03:13] Vince Menzione: And you know, it, it was, it built a following and there’s a lot of work, by the way, people, a lot of people do podcasts today. It was a lot of work for those of you. I congratulate anybody doing that. Uh, I went back inside for two years because I felt like I needed to go back into a big corporate environment. [00:03:29] Vince Menzione: And then I left during COVID and I learned a lot being at a big corporation about how hard it was to partner. Like it’s still hard. I don’t know how many people in the room feel this way. I know, I know the numbers are much better and Jay will talk through the numbers, but it’s not easy and a lot of organizations don’t understand it. [00:03:47] Vince Menzione: And that’s what we talk about here and we try to help people to achieve more and how to, how to get that mindset in the right place. But anyway, so. We started, we started doing the podcast after COVID, it took off. We did an event. Uh, there’s actually four of the five people that did partner. We called it Partner Mastermind. [00:04:06] Vince Menzione: We did an event about four years ago, uh, separately. And that led to Ultimate Partner. And it’s a long, the long history in the last four years of 10 events, like it’s been an incredible blast. And I want to thank each of you for being along this, this incredible ride with us as we continue to grow and expand. [00:04:24] Vince Menzione: We’ve been doubling every year for the last four years and um, I feel very blessed to be part of this. So I did wanna spend a minute with you on this. I don’t like the drain this slide, but I do wanna identify what I believe are seven operating principles of what makes successful partnering. And you know, you might say there’s eight, you might say there are other things I think about principles as opposed to tactics. [00:04:50] Vince Menzione: Tactics are transactional. They’re temporary and a point in time, and it’s how you respond and react to a situation. Principles are things you take with you, and that’s what we hope to do at Ultimate Partner. Take those things with you and then, then apply some of the things to the tactics that we need to have. [00:05:06] Vince Menzione: And so we talk about growth mindset. Uh, you know, depending on where you stand about Microsoft, these days, when this guy came in, stock was $36 a share. Okay. It’s in the four hundreds now. It was up to over 500 not long ago. He applied a different mindset. The first three things he did, Le got a copy of Carol Dweck’s book about mindset. [00:05:28] Vince Menzione: Growth mindset versus fixed mindset. Uh, he brought in Dr. Michael Vet, who’s a leading sports psychologist, like in, in the industry, who was the Seattle Seahawks sports psychologist. Mike’s been a podcast guest of mine. I’ve been to his studio. Um, and then he, we, he, he changed, he, he brought down, he took down the walls of the way Microsoft operated because leaders fought with each other. [00:05:51] Vince Menzione: They competed with each other for resources, for monetization, for everything. And he changed the mindset. Nobody’s a perfect CEO, but if I was to say to you who I think the best CEO of the last 10 years were, I’d give it to Saja Nadella, but it’s about mindset. It’s about changing or having the right mindset and applying that growth mindset to a successful partner. [00:06:12] Vince Menzione: Executive commitment, I talked about that. Other organizational will go nameless, but if you don’t, you can have the CEO down to the selling floor. Everyone needs to speak partnering, like in order to get it right in an organization. The whole company, the resources, the investments, the alignment, all has to align around partnering. [00:06:32] Vince Menzione: Executive commitment is incredible. Tony Saan took a small MSP to a half a billion dollar exit, took them to go, uh, Google Partner of the Year, seven straight years in a row. I think they’re eight this year. Uh, but Tony’s a good friend of mine. He is also been a guest on the podcast and, uh, somebody I’ve admired and worked with. [00:06:50] Vince Menzione: This is Dr. Michael Dravet. We talk about clarity, like once you get your mindset, once you get executive commitment, you then need to determine like how, what’s the vision? How do we drive success together? You need to turn, you need to know internally how to go do that. Then you lock arms with another organization and then you apply it to that partnership. [00:07:10] Vince Menzione: So that’s incredibly critical. Then, then you gotta do everything right? Like I always kid around about my days at Microsoft, we’d have these incredible meetings with leaders. They’d come meet with us at partner conference. I would literally go back to back for several days in the room. Slide deck after slide deck. [00:07:27] Vince Menzione: We’re high fiving at the end. [00:07:29] Vince Menzione: We’re gonna go do it [00:07:31] Vince Menzione: six months later. Crickets. Nothing happens, right? This happens a lot in partnering. Unfortunately, like we, we set up the right situation. We line everybody. We’re gonna go execute, we’re gonna drive results. You have to apply maniacal, focus, OKRs, everything to everything you do. [00:07:48] Vince Menzione: You need to apply. And by the way, you’re gonna hear from a lot of leaders here that do this type of work. So this is incredibly, uh, critical to success, brand and story. Like I wanna work with Microsoft. There’s gonna be probably 40 plus Microsoft leaders in the room, some of ’em sitting here and around the room. [00:08:06] Vince Menzione: How do you do that? Right? This is Ducks Raymond S. Good friend of mine at Point. I knew at point when they were just starting out. Scott Sackett is here. He’ll be up on stage. Uh, this man was expert on brand and story. Learn from people that are successful, how to be successful yourself, if you wanna be a top partner, if you wanna grow your business, whether you’re working with Microsoft, Google, Amazon, or any of the other partners in this room. [00:08:30] Vince Menzione: You need to be very clear about your brand, articulate it well, and drive a story against that. And that’s really super critical for success. And then once we do all those things, we start driving a flywheel of success. Aaron Feiger and some of the other people in the room, Reese Barry, are gonna be talking about how they do that. [00:08:47] Vince Menzione: They will help these organizations be successful. Pick putting that stake in the ground and driving it. And then what happens is after you drive this incredible success, what does my partner do? My tech giant, the company I’ve been working with, they go change everything. The market changes, the dynamics change. [00:09:05] Vince Menzione: This thing in November of 2022 called AI Happens, Chad, GBT hits the market. How do I respond and react to that? I need to be adaptable. I need to drive an AQ strategy on top of my EQ and iq, and we’ll talk more about that. So these are the operating principles, and we lay it out as a, as a diagram. And by the way, you see mutual trust. [00:09:26] Vince Menzione: Trust has to be in every room without trust, you have no partnerships, without trust, you have no business success. Like you can get buy in business, you can get buy in life, but trust is foundational. And I was very blessed to have that like grain ingrained in me as a young boy. Uh, so that’s our, that’s our operating principles. [00:09:48] Vince Menzione: Um, I’m working on a book right now. It’s almost done though. We’re, we’re talk, we’ll talk about that more, but that’s, that’ll be in the book. Um, and then we’ve been talking about tectonic shifts and I don’t know who said it first, Jay or, or me, but I know who you said it in the studio several years ago. [00:10:04] Vince Menzione: Jay’s been in our, our Boca studio many, many times. But we’ve been talking about tectonic shifts and Oh my gosh, right? So think about, I want everybody to think about this for a second. If you’ve been around tech for a while. We’ve gone through several, like these 10 year phases, the PC era, the cloud era, the well, the cloud. [00:10:23] Vince Menzione: We had client server, pc, client server, we had cloud, we had mobile, and now we hit ai. Those eras all took a period of time, right? They didn’t happen overnight. Like there was a trend like five, six years, seven years, maybe eight years, and then COVID happened, and I believe that COVID was the acceleration point because. [00:10:44] Vince Menzione: We were all forced to do things we didn’t do before. People went out and bought PCs that didn’t have them. Kids had to learn from home. Healthcare was administered tele telehealth, we didn’t do telehealth before. We had like 5% of the population to telehealth before that, uh, our work environment changed, right? [00:11:02] Vince Menzione: We were doing Zoom calls or teams calls back when I was at Microsoft Days, but the world started doing it. Our life started to change. That’s why being in the room places like this is so important. And so that really has accelerated everything. And this, you know, all these things have been accelerating over time and these are significant shifts. [00:11:22] Vince Menzione: We have the three leaders of the three marketplace organizations coming on stage here. Uh, the three hyperscalers, because marketplace went from, we were talking about it like, this is really cool. You need to go do it. A few years ago. So Microsoft lowering the rates on it, and then everything changed and then everybody started accelerating and it became the fungible token. [00:11:43] Vince Menzione: ’cause we used to, we used to partner, we used to take spreadsheets and put ’em up against each other and try to figure out deals and fax copies of deals that came in and say, we want credit for this one. And then Marketplace became a way to create a fun non fungible token. And really drive your success. [00:11:59] Vince Menzione: And so we have all the leaders that are running marketplaces in this room, by the way. So this is gonna be like the most incredible rich conversation. Co-selling. Co-selling is a, you know, a non-starter day. You have to co-sell it. People, we used to do vendor channel, which means I had somebody selling my stuff that’s not happening anymore. [00:12:19] Vince Menzione: And Jay, we’ll talk about the seven seats at the table. But this is all, these are all the things that have been changing. And of course, ai. I think that we are sitting here and I, I, I’ll share, and I’m stressing this, like this is, you need to be in this room because you’re gonna hear from leaders about what the next steps are. [00:12:35] Vince Menzione: ’cause I think we’re all paralyzed by AI and all the changes that are going on in our world and playbooks are no longer good because they’re outdated the week after they come out. So I need to, I need to follow this in real time. I think this is super important that you do, and it’s why we exist and it’s why this time is like no other. [00:12:53] Vince Menzione: I think, you know, we said maybe a generation, maybe it’s a lifetime in terms of the shifts that we’re seeing. So I, I kind of started here and I wanted to end here, uh, just because the light doesn’t go out. That’s what it’s all about. And this is it. This is it for me, right? This is my, my last run. I’m not gonna go work for a company after this. [00:13:16] Vince Menzione: I’m not gonna go into become a consultant. And I want this truly to be like special. And I want you to all feel like you’re part, you are part of it, and however much you wanna lean in and be part of it in the future, we want to grow this in the right way. I, I feel that we have an a unique opportunity. [00:13:34] Vince Menzione: Because we’re not a vendor, we’re not selling anything. I feel like we’re a platform. We’re that we’re that lighthouse and others can come in that are experts and I feel like more and more of ’em are showing up. And you know, the PDG guys did a great job today and others in the room and people that have been friends and supporting us for for years as on that sponsor slide. [00:13:56] Vince Menzione: And so we just want to continued this journey with each of you. Um, and so I want your feedback on what we’re doing. I want, I love your support. I love your passion. I love the fact that you’re still here in the room talking with, with or being here, listening to me today. Um, this is, that lighthouse is, you can see these pictures. [00:14:15] Vince Menzione: These are all family photos. Um, we go to that lighthouse, not because it’s a lighthouse, but uh, it happens to be like a landmark in our town. And, uh, it’s kind of cool. And actually the re Joe Namath has owns the restaurant across from the lighthouse, so we, we’ve got to see him a couple of times, which is kind of cool. [00:14:34] Vince Menzione: But I, I, I, I was posting this lighthouse when I started the podcast. And I was, yeah. ’cause that’s where I live and it’s my hometown. And I think about Dakota Rings and I think about other things. But, um, this is what matters. This is what matters is helping others. And we all are gonna need each other in this world because AI is gonna change our lives. [00:15:00] Vince Menzione: And dramatically it’s, I I think this is a once in a lifetime thing. But I think having people that you trust and being in the room with others where you can learn and grow and adapt, adaptability is so important. So, um, analog is the new digital as my, my good friend Gary V now says. And I think there’s this huge opportunity around what we do as ultimate partner to help everybody reach their pinnacle to everybody. [00:15:26] Vince Menzione: Be the ultimate partner. And I want to thank you for coming. I want your, thank you for your support, friendship, love. And, uh, you’re just an incredible group. Thank you. [00:15:41] Vince Menzione: Until next time, we’ll see you in person. Hopefully at our next event.

Vendor channel consolidation, specifically through peer and family-owned acquisitions, is driving a fundamental shift in the operational landscape for MSPs. This episode analyzes the case of NetSciences, an MSP based in New Mexico, which was acquired by Qual IT—a family-owned operator with over two decades in the space. The MSP market now includes multiple buyer categories: peer acquisitions, roll-ups, and private equity (PE) players, each with distinct approaches to valuation, integration, and operational continuity. The transition of NetSciences to Qual IT illustrates that smaller MSPs increasingly face decisions about optimal sale pathways. According to Joshua Liberman, roll-up buyers and PE investors often introduce rapid shifts in deal terms and operational models, with PE offers described as subject to abrupt valuation changes (drops up to 67% noted by Liberman), creating a higher risk profile for sellers seeking stability and legacy preservation. By contrast, the peer acquisition model (as executed through platforms such as ASCII's peer-to-peer review process) is allowing some MSPs to complete sales with greater continuity and cultural alignment, though post-sale integration often defaults to the acquirer's systems and standards rather than blending best practices. Secondary developments reinforcing this shift include persistent market focus on monthly recurring revenue (MRR) metrics and the operational tradeoffs of pursuing high MRR percentages. Liberman maintained a 50–60% MRR intentionally, arguing that chasing 80%+ MRR metrics can distort business health and does not universally suit all MSP models. Discussion of cybersecurity underscores the need to reposition technical services as business outcomes—security is described as foundational, permeating every operational and client decision, yet is often misunderstood or negotiated away to the detriment of risk posture. Operationally, these trends imply that MSPs must be highly selective about both client and acquirer fit, balancing growth trajectories against risk aggregation and cultural alignment. Attempts to homogenize client environments and enforce consistent security baselines are necessary but limit scale and acquisition appeal. Failure to assess how integration will shift toolsets, processes, and staff autonomy can result in loss of operational maturity and control post-sale. Additionally, the unchecked adoption of tools such as AI—without oversight or documented process—exemplifies emerging areas of governance risk that technology leaders cannot overlook. Supported by: ScalePadTimeZest Sign up for the SMB Online Conference: www.smbonlineconference.com

Elan Jones and Bradley Robinson are two of the best MSP salespeople in the country — and they work at the same company. Elan sold beer and cannabis before walking into IT sales the month the world locked down, then won MSP Salesperson of the Year. Bradley came from operations and project management, had never really sold, and became a two-time national Sales Champion finalist. Neither came from tech.This one's a first for the show: two sellers from the same shop, eCreek IT in Denver, breaking down a sales process repeatable enough to mint champions out of totally different people. We get into selling with confidence, why price objections are usually a value problem, how they keep a discovery call conversational without abandoning the checklist, the camaraderie of a two-person sales team, and where AI actually helps versus where it's just noise. If you're an MSP owner trying to build a sales engine that doesn't depend on you, this is the playbook.What You'll Learn• Why most price objections are really value problems from a weak discovery call• How to keep a discovery call conversational without abandoning the checklist• What it actually takes for an MSP owner to replace themselves in sales• Why drive beats credentials every time (and the camping story that proves it)• Where AI genuinely helps in sales — and where the human-first approach still winsBooks & Resources Referenced• Myers-Briggs Type Indicator — Elan and Bradley both tested as ENTJ despite their different backgrounds. - https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/• Calendly (referenced as "Calum"/scheduling tool) — automated meeting reminders and follow-ups. - https://calendly.comGEO (Generative Engine Optimization) — the emerging practice of optimizing to be recommended by AI search, discussed re: getting surfaced by ChatGPT for "IT providers in Denver."

Becky Cross, VP of Client Partnerships at FIT Technologies, recaps key themes from the Pax8 Beyond Conference in Salt Lake City with Jason Collins (CISO) and Ali Tubbs Amato (COO), focusing on moving past AI hype to practical execution. Ali discusses how to operationalize AI by starting with clear pain points, measuring time savings and ROI, and using automation to remove remedial tasks so people can focus on more impactful work, noting that similar fears accompanied earlier technology shifts.Jason emphasizes that secure AI adoption starts with visibility—knowing what AI tools and automations exist, what they can access, and governing them like new identities—highlighting a session on identifying and mitigating AI risk through repeatable processes. The group also explores an industry shift from managed services to “managed intelligence,” and closes by stressing the importance of relationships, community, and sharing experiences across the MSP ecosystem.

Wie positioniert sich ein 30 Jahre altes, bootstrapped Softwareunternehmen aus Indien mitten im deutschen Channel – und das ausgerechnet in einem Markt, den Microsoft seit Jahren dominiert? Darum geht es in dieser Episode. Johannes Kapfer spricht mit Martin Schwarz, Marketing Manager DACH bei Zoho, über den Wandel im IT-Channel, die Rolle von KI im Tagesgeschäft und die Frage, warum Datensouveränität gerade jetzt zum echten Wettbewerbsargument wird. In dieser Episode: • Warum der klassische MSP zum KI-Advisor wird – und welche Partner diesen Schritt wirklich schaffen • Was agentische KI im Alltag bereits leistet – und wo ihre Grenzen noch liegen • Wie Zoho One als integrierte Plattform den Einstieg für KMU vereinfacht und warum ein gemeinsamer Datenpool die Voraussetzung für funktionierende KI ist • Weshalb Zohos Bootstrapping-Modell heute zum Stabilitätsargument gegenüber Partnern und Kunden wird • Und: Was Systemhäuser und Service Provider in den nächsten 12 Monaten wirklich anpacken müssen

In this episode of The IT Experts Podcast, we explore one of the most powerful leadership skills any MSP owner can develop: self-awareness. While many business conversations focus on strategy, sales, systems, and growth, this discussion takes a different path. I am joined by leadership coach Julie Hutchison and Managing Director of Mark1 IT Mark Stevens to unpack how self-awareness impacts you, your team, and ultimately the success of your business.     The conversation begins with Mark sharing his own leadership journey and the challenges he experienced as his business grew. Like many MSP owners, he found himself frustrated when team members did not perform in the way he expected. He wanted people to move at the same speed, think in the same way, and approach challenges with the same intensity. Over time, that created pressure, frustration, and a growing disconnect between what he wanted from his team and what they were able to deliver.     What makes this episode particularly valuable is Mark's honesty. Rather than focusing on what was wrong with his team, he reflects on what he discovered about himself. Through coaching, reflection, and experience, he began to understand that many of the challenges within the business were connected to the way he was showing up as a leader. This realisation became the starting point for meaningful change.     Julie explains that self awareness is not simply about understanding your personality. It is about recognising the impact your behaviour has on other people. Every leader influences the confidence, motivation, and performance of their team. When leaders become more aware of how they communicate, react under pressure, and set expectations, they create an environment where people can thrive.     A key moment in the discussion centres around behavioural profiling and understanding different communication styles. Mark shares how learning about his DISC profile helped him recognise that not everyone thinks, works, or processes information in the same way. What felt obvious and straightforward to him often felt overwhelming or unclear to others. Developing greater self-awareness allowed him to adapt his communication and lead people more effectively.     The conversation also explores the relationship between self-awareness and emotional intelligence. Mark talks openly about recognising the impact of stress, fatigue, and even lifestyle choices on the way he interacted with his team. Rather than allowing frustration to dictate his behaviour, he learned to pause, reflect, and respond more intentionally. This shift created stronger relationships and helped build trust throughout the business.     One of the most powerful themes throughout the episode is the idea that leadership starts with personal responsibility. It is easy to blame team members when results are not where you want them to be. It takes courage to hold up the mirror and ask what role you might be playing in the situation. Julie introduces the concept of "Can't, Won't, Don't", a framework that helps leaders understand whether team members lack capability, confidence, motivation, or clarity. Instead of assuming people are underperforming, leaders are encouraged to become curious and seek understanding.     As self-awareness increases, leaders become better equipped to identify the real barriers holding their teams back. They stop reacting emotionally and start creating conditions where people can succeed. This leads to improved communication, stronger accountability, and greater engagement across the organisation.     Mark also shares how greater self-awareness transformed the culture inside Mark1 IT. What was once a source of frustration became a business environment he genuinely enjoys. Team members became more confident. Conversations became more productive. The business became more structured and aligned. Most importantly, people started taking ownership and making decisions with confidence.     The discussion highlights another important lesson for MSP owners. Self-awareness is not a destination. It is an ongoing process. Every stage of business growth brings new challenges, new responsibilities, and new opportunities for personal development. The leaders who continue to learn, reflect, and adapt are the ones who create sustainable success for themselves and their teams.     Throughout the episode, Ian, Julie, and Mark remind us that people are the most valuable asset in any business. Systems, technology, and processes all matter. Yet the way leaders think, behave, and communicate has a profound impact on everything else. When leaders invest in their own growth, they create ripple effects that influence culture, performance, and long-term business results.     If you have ever found yourself frustrated with your team, questioning why people are not taking ownership, or wondering why progress feels slower than it should, this episode offers a valuable perspective. It provides practical insights, honest reflections, and powerful reminders that leadership begins with understanding yourself first.     Self-awareness creates clarity. Clarity builds confidence. Confidence helps people perform at their best. When leaders embrace that journey, they create stronger businesses and more fulfilling places to work.    Connect with Mark Stevens through LinkedIn and his website.    Make sure to check out our Ultimate MSP Growth Guide, a free guide that walks you through a proven process to take your MSP from stuck to scalable, without working even more hours. It's 44 pages rammed with advice, insights and inspiration to help you decide what support is available to you now if you want to grow and scale your business. Click HERE to get your copy.    Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK    And when you're ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you'll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.    If you're serious about growth and want to explore what this could look like for your MSP, you can book a Right Fit Clarity Call with us HERE.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I'll catch up with you soon!   

In this episode, we unpack the biggest mistakes founder-led businesses make when trying to scale, what it really takes to step out of day to day, and the critical piece most businesses overlook when chasing sustainable growth. If you are ready to build a business that grows with intention, this conversation will give you the clarity and direction to start making that shift. >>> Here are 4 ways we can help you reach your revenue goals faster...#1 Unlock the full potential of your marketing engine. We'll provide you and your team with the direction, insights, and tools necessary to excel in the complex landscape of modern marketing. - Marketing Advisor On Call#2 Discover the marketing strategies & tactics that will guide your next quarter and unlock explosive growth in 90 minutes. - Quick-Start Marketing Strategy Game Plan#3 Discover a tailor-made strategy for unprecedented growth to transform your marketing in 30 days. - Unlock Your Growth Opportunities#4 If you need guidance on the most effective direction for your marketing, then schedule a call with us today! - Get Your Free Discovery Call Now

In IT services M&A, depending on a single platform or channel partner is a valuation risk, not a strength. This episode breaks down what happens to your firm's value when a vendor changes its pricing, partner tiers, or lead flow, and what the most acquirable IT services firms do instead. Chapters (verify exact times against the final cut) 0:00 Cold open 0:30 Why channel partners matter, and why dependency is risky 3:30 Vendors act in their own interest first 8:00 The "$5M consultancy" problem: when the rules change overnight 11:30 Specialize or diversify? The verticalization hedge 17:30 When the leads dry up 20:00 The future partner role: final-mile and the "service garage" 23:30 "My partner program just changed": what to do first 27:30 What program changes mean for M&A and consolidation 34:00 Services as software: the opportunity ahead In this episode • Vendors optimize for vendors; partner programs have trended toward fewer partners and lower payouts for 20+ years • Buyers discount single-vendor dependency the way they discount customer concentration • Verticalized expertise naturally makes you multi-vendor and harder to disrupt • The durable partner role is implementation, integration, and ongoing service • Program upheaval accelerates consolidation; well-run, profitable firms stay attractive Links • Read more on our blog: https://www.revenuerocket.com/blog/ • What's your firm worth? Valuation calculator: https://www.revenuerocket.com/valuation-calculator/ • Schedule a confidential conversation: https://www.revenuerocket.com/contact-us/ • Listen to Shoot the Moon on your favorite platform: https://www.revenuerocket.com/podcast/ • More from Revenue Rocket: https://www.revenuerocket.com/ About Revenue Rocket — Revenue Rocket is a sell-side and buy-side M&A advisory firm focused exclusively on IT services companies, including MSPs, cybersecurity, cloud, custom application development, and VARs. For 25+ years we have helped founders grow, position, and sell their firms. Thinking about your next move? Schedule a confidential conversation: https://www.revenuerocket.com/contact-us/ Listen to Shoot the Moon on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.Buy, sell, or grow your tech-enabled services firm with Revenue Rocket.

AI readiness doesn't start with AI; it starts with the infrastructure most organizations overlook. In this episode of #shifthappens, Lior Bela, Business Director for Microsoft Intune, breaks down what it actually takes to prepare managed service providers (MSPs) and their customers for AI adoption, and why skipping the foundation creates more risk than it solves. Lior explains why cloud-native environments are the prerequisite, not the afterthought, for AI success — comparing the journey to paving a road before driving a car on it. He discusses how legacy tooling and on-prem comfort create a growth ceiling, why AI agents should be governed with the same guardrails as employees, and what happens when organizations fail to offer sanctioned AI tools: shadow AI fills the gap. The conversation also covers the three-tier path to AI maturity, from baseline alignment to assisted automation to full autonomy, and why building trust in AI follows the same arc as trusting a driverless car. Lior closes with a practical 30-day action plan any MSP can follow: learn, experiment in a sandbox, and deploy on low-risk, high-impact processes.

A significant regulatory development affecting MSPs was discussed: the US Government ordered the suspension of access to the Fable 5 and Mythos 5 AI models by any foreign national, including those inside and outside the United States, citing national security authorities. As reported in the Anthropic company statement, this directive forced abrupt discontinuation of these AI tools for all customers, regardless of business impact. The decision resulted in the sudden loss of access to custom-built AI applications and business process automation tools that MSPs and their clients had integrated into daily operations. Immediate disruptions included the cessation of SEO and analytics engines, RMM automation, and bespoke backup solutions that relied on the now-restricted AI platforms. Further clarification showed these suspensions are tied to concerns about potential backdoor access, disputed by Anthropic but acted upon due to US Government findings. Additional context revealed Amazon—the largest investor in Anthropic and a direct competitor—alerted federal authorities to the supposed vulnerability. Stock prices of competitive AI offerings in China reportedly rose by 48% following the announcement, indicating market reactivity to perceived US regulatory risks. The episode underscored that AI model dependencies—whether managed internally by MSPs or by third-party vendors—can introduce sudden continuity hazards if access or legal standing is rapidly altered. Adjacent discussions evaluated operational models for MSP service offerings. Contrasting perspectives highlighted the tradeoff between providing a single comprehensive managed services plan, designed for streamlined staff training and high-touch customer experience, versus offering a tiered set of plans (“good, better, best”) that, according to shared data, can result in about 70% higher revenue through client segmentation and option-based sales. The choice was framed as fundamentally cultural, influencing both workforce structure and scalability, with differing risk and complexity profiles for technical delivery and sales management. Key implications for MSPs and IT leaders include the need for explicit risk assessments around reliance on AI platforms and third-party tools. Business continuity planning should contemplate not only technical redundancy but also legal and regulatory exposures to abrupt vendor or governmental action. When building service portfolios, organizations should align plan standardization or diversification with internal capacity, capability for sales-driven growth, and staff training. Establishing clear governance for evaluating the ongoing viability and risk exposure of both internally developed and vendor-supplied technology is critical for operational resilience in an environment of rapid regulatory change. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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A pronounced infrastructure dependence on third-party AI models has emerged across the MSP ecosystem, largely due to the rapid adoption and integration of AI-powered features within vendor products. This structural shift is increasingly opaque, as providers are sold features rather than transparent access to underlying models, leaving MSPs exposed to changes in technologies and policies enacted upstream by vendors or regulators. The episode highlights how this dependency extends to delivery teams and end clients, with operational continuity tightly linked to decisions and actions outside the MSP's direct control. The most consequential development referenced is Anthropic's release and rapid withdrawal of its Fable 5 AI model following a directive from the U.S. Commerce Department, which ordered a cutoff of model access to foreign nationals within 72 hours of public launch. According to published benchmarks, Fable 5 surpassed GPT 5.5 in performance, but the government-mandated suspension exposed how quickly model access can be rescinded. The policy move immediately impacted any MSP or client with offshore or nearshore staff relying on AI features invisibly powered by that model. Further supporting the central theme, companies such as PAX8, Enforcer, and CloudRadio are embedding AI capabilities into platforms used by MSPs to manage Microsoft 365 environments, automate ticketing, and support scalable client operations. In parallel, vendors like Proofpoint are integrating compliance solutions directly with AI model APIs, further entwining risk management tools with the same core AI infrastructures. A Netrio survey cited in the episode found that while 82% of mid-market IT leaders have AI in production, only 26% report organization-wide governance, highlighting an accountability and visibility gap. Operationally, MSPs face heightened contract and vendor risk. Most lack an accurate inventory of which AI models underpin their services and how rapidly these dependencies can be affected by regulatory directives or vendor shifts. The discussion underscores the need for explicit procurement protocols, delivery mapping, and outage runbooks that account for opaque model dependencies. As clients seek greater transparency and contractual assurances regarding model use and continuity, MSPs who anticipate and document these dependencies may be positioned to reduce exposure and establish clearer accountability. 00:00 Switched Off  03:19 Painted Over 05:20 Govern or Absorb 08:41 Why Do We Care?  Supported by: Pax8 Sign up for the SMB Online Conference: www.smbonlineconference.com

Recorded live at the Pax8 Beyond 26 Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah, these back-to-back conversations with Chris Marks, VP of Marketplace Innovation, and Chance Weaver, Global Vice President of AI Adoption, offer a powerful glimpse into the future of the IT channel and the evolution from Managed Service Providers (MSPs) to Managed Intelligence Providers (MIPs). Together, they share how Pax8 is helping partners navigate one of the most significant technology shifts in decades by combining innovation, community, education, and practical AI adoption strategies. While Chris focuses on the vision, leadership, and marketplace transformation required to unlock new opportunities, Chance provides a tactical roadmap for turning AI into measurable business outcomes and recurring revenue streams. Discover why AI is not simply another tool, but a catalyst for deeper client relationships and strategic business transformation. Key themes include the importance of moving beyond technology conversations to business outcome discussions, embedding AI into workflows rather than treating it as a standalone solution, leveraging community to accelerate learning, and embracing curiosity, adaptability, and servant leadership in times of rapid change. Chris highlights the tremendous opportunity for MSPs to become trusted business advisors, while Chance demonstrates how partners can start immediately by having AI conversations with clients, identifying business challenges, delivering quick wins, and building long-term value. Together, their insights reinforce a powerful message: the future belongs to technology leaders willing to innovate, educate, and guide their clients. Key Highlights: The evolution from MSP to MIP and why business advisory services are becoming a critical differentiator. AI creates new opportunities for growth, efficiency, and recurring revenue when tied to measurable outcomes. Community, collaboration, and continuous learning are essential for navigating technological disruption. Practical strategies for introducing AI to clients, addressing governance concerns, and demonstrating ROI. Leadership lessons centered on curiosity, empowerment, servant leadership, and enabling teams to innovate. How Pax8 is building the programs, tools, and ecosystem partners need to thrive in the AI-driven economy.   Be sure to register for Beyond 27 in San Diego, California, and visit pax8.com to learn more about the marketplace.

Most first acquisition offers are not the best offers. If a buyer has approached your MSP or IT services company out of the blue, this episode walks through how to evaluate that offer, what a letter of intent actually binds you to, and why bringing in an advisor before you sign protects both your price and your optionality.   CHAPTERS 0:00 Why most first offers are not the best offer 1:45 What changed: a seller's market and nonstop inbound offers 4:45 "I already have an offer" — what an LOI really binds you to 7:00 Why the first offer usually is not optimized 10:15 Mistakes founders make running their own deal 14:50 When to bring in an M&A advisor 18:00 Deal facilitation vs. a full sell-side process 22:00 Control vs. leverage: what an advisor actually does 24:15 The first thing to do when an offer lands 26:30 Wrap-up   KEY TAKEAWAYS Most first offers are not optimized. Without competitive tension, you usually leave price, terms, and strategic fit on the table. In an LOI, the no-shop clause is typically the only binding provision. The number can still move significantly in diligence. There are roughly 150 things to negotiate between LOI and close, from working capital to earnout structure to reps and warranties. "Deal facilitation" meets you where you already are  with a buyer or signed LOI, and helps you get to close at a lower scope than a full process. An advisor does not take control. They add leverage, while you make every final decision. Before you respond to any offer: don't engage emotionally, validate the buyer's credibility and certainty to close, and protect your optionality.   LINKS Read more on our blog: https://www.revenuerocket.com/blog/ Estimate your company's value with our Valuation Calculator: https://www.revenuerocket.com/valuation-calculator/ Schedule a confidential conversation: https://www.revenuerocket.com/contact-us/ Listen on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/shoot-the-moon-with-revenue-rocket/id1478519505 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6y7u9KuOjaplhScHtINGZU More episodes: https://www.revenuerocket.com/series/shoot-the-moon/ Website: https://www.revenuerocket.com   ABOUT REVENUE ROCKET Revenue Rocket is a sell-side and buy-side M&A advisory firm focused exclusively on IT services companies, including MSPs, cybersecurity, cloud, custom application development, and VARs. Based in Bloomington, Minnesota, the firm has advised technology and IT services founders on mergers, acquisitions, and exits for 25+ years.Shoot the Moon is hosted by Revenue Rocket partners Mike Harvath, Ryan Barnett, and Matt Lockhart.

The episode highlights a structural shift from automation that suggests actions to automation that executes actions autonomously, thereby transferring substantial operational risk and accountability to technology vendors and their AI-driven platforms. This transition is exemplified by Atera's deployment of their autonomous AI agent, Robin, which is positioned to handle a significant proportion of Tier 1 and complex Tier 2 IT tickets for managed service providers (MSPs). The company's commercial strategy, including performance guarantees, signals an increased expectation that AI can assume core IT operational responsibilities that were traditionally reserved for human engineers. Atera has introduced a policy wherein Robin is guaranteed to autonomously close at least 50% of all Tier 1 and complex Tier 2 tickets within 90 days of onboarding, or fees are waived. According to Atera, this commitment is supported by a backend analysis of MSP tickets and live demonstrations using historical data. The company asserts that Robin's mean time to repair is approximately 120 seconds, that onboarding is managed collaboratively, and that the rollout is more akin to hiring and training a human engineer than a standard software deployment. This approach is backed by patent filings and a business model integrating AI as the foundation rather than an add-on. The episode further examines the implications of mandatory AI bundling in Atera's redefined RMM and PSA platform offering. The company has faced pushback from segments of the MSP community dissatisfied with bundled AI services and associated pricing changes, particularly from those wishing to maintain control over their technology stack. Atera responds by describing a re-conceptualization of their platform as inherently AI-driven, distinguishing between “platform AI” and the autonomous Robin agent, and clarifying that preexisting AI users would not incur additional costs. There is also discussion around the impact of automation on human roles and the need for new approaches to training and accountability, particularly for junior staff. For MSPs and IT service providers, these developments signal an increase in infrastructure dependency on vendor-managed AI agents, as well as new layers of contract risk linked to performance guarantees and platform integration. The operational reality described involves a significant reduction in required headcount, a shift in staff responsibilities from routine incident response to higher-order business and security tasks, and the necessity for designated internal management of AI tools. There remain unresolved concerns about skill degradation and the long-term risks of over-automation, including the narrower pathways through which junior personnel may acquire foundational experience. Sponsored by:  ScalePad https://scalepad.com/dave/ Nerdio https://nerdio.co/MSP-Radio Sign up for the SMB Online Conference: www.smbonlineconference.com

Automation as Core Strategy: Aarin Bailey on RPA, AI, and Scaling MSP OperationsOn the Evolved Radio podcast, Todd interviews Aarin Bailey, COO at Webit Services and former COO at MSP Bots, about treating automation as a core MSP operating strategy. Aarin describes how his automation focus accelerated around COVID by chaining PowerShell scripts, later expanding into Python, GUIs, and modular systems connected via RESTful APIs, with much of the computation running outside the RMM on servers (including SQL and Python) while the RMM remains mainly a monitoring and job-push layer. They discuss whether RMM is a “zombie product,” the ongoing role of PSA/ticketing as a system of record, and managing complexity through separate modules and staff literacy in Python/RPA. Aarin explains build-vs-buy decisions driven by ROI and fit, cites automated triage/dispatch with ~98% accuracy and shifting token costs, argues AI should augment rather than replace humans, and emphasizes documentation, playbooks, and focusing on operational “bad” anomalies. They also cover client tolerance for AI, limiting client-facing AI after hallucinated ticket notes, skepticism about voice AI, and concerns about AI economics and subsidies.This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. (00:00) - Automation First Mindset (01:10) - Aaron Origin Story (05:04) - From Scripts to Platforms (05:41) - Beyond the RMM Beehive (08:35) - Is RMM a Zombie (12:14) - Managing Complexity Safely (14:33) - Build vs Buy ROI (19:39) - Token Costs and Pair Coding (23:49) - AI Security Reality Check (27:34) - Scaling with Playbooks (30:12) - Hunt the Bad Stuff (30:59) - Blueprints Before Automation (32:46) - Ticket Volume and Vision (33:32) - Saying No as Integrator (35:44) - Healthy Disagreement Dynamics (37:08) - Client Facing vs Backend AI (40:05) - AI Hallucinations and Guardrails (43:05) - Voice AI and Live Answer (46:06) - Costs and Subsidized AI Era (49:26) - Outcome First and RPA Focus (51:36) - Wrap Up and Thanks

In this episode of the IT Experts Podcast, we explore one of the most overlooked opportunities for MSP growth: exhibitions and events. If you have ever invested time and money into a trade show, only to come away wondering whether it was worth it, this conversation with Steve Lloyd is essential listening.     Many MSP owners know they need to get out into the market, meet potential clients, build relationships, and generate fresh opportunities. The challenge is that exhibitions can often feel uncomfortable, especially for technical founders who are far more confident discussing technology than approaching strangers in a busy exhibition hall. The result is that many businesses turn up with a couple of banners, a table full of brochures, and a hope that the right people will stop by. According to Steve Lloyd, that approach is exactly why so many exhibitors fail to see a return on their investment.     Throughout this episode, Steve Lloyd shares a completely different way of thinking about exhibitions. Rather than viewing them as a one-day event, he encourages MSPs to see them as part of a much larger business development process. Success begins long before the doors open and continues long after the exhibition has finished.     One of the most powerful insights from the conversation is the idea that you are not simply renting a stand. You are creating a temporary shop inside a temporary shopping centre. When viewed through that lens, everything changes. You start thinking about customer experience, visibility, engagement, staff preparation, and follow up. You begin asking better questions about what success actually looks like and how you can create meaningful conversations with the people who matter most.     Steve Lloyd explains that many exhibitors make the mistake of accepting the standard setup provided by the venue. Tables become barriers. Brochures create clutter. Team members sit behind their stand waiting for visitors to approach. Unfortunately, that approach rarely creates energy, excitement, or engagement.     Instead, Steve Lloyd encourages businesses to take ownership of their space. Every element of the stand should support a clear message. Visitors should immediately understand who you help, what problem you solve, and why they should engage with you. Simplicity becomes a competitive advantage. Clear messaging consistently outperforms complicated explanations and technical jargon.     The discussion also highlights an important challenge many MSP owners face. Technical expertise does not automatically translate into effective communication. It is easy to fall into the expert trap and overwhelm prospects with information. Steve Lloyd explains that successful exhibitors learn how to simplify complex ideas and connect with people who may have very little technical knowledge. Confidence comes from clarity, and clarity helps create stronger conversations.     Another key theme throughout the episode is preparation. Steve Lloyd introduces what he calls the Exhibition Life Cycle, a framework built around preparation, promotion, execution, and follow up. Each stage plays a critical role in determining the overall success of an exhibition.     Preparation involves far more than ordering banners and booking accommodation. It includes defining objectives, developing messaging, planning customer journeys, training staff, preparing follow up processes, and ensuring there are no surprises on the day. The more preparation that happens in advance, the more confident and effective your team becomes during the event itself.     Promotion is another area where many businesses leave opportunities on the table. Steve Lloyd encourages exhibitors to build anticipation before the event begins. The most successful stands create awareness and excitement before visitors even arrive at the venue. This helps maximise engagement and creates momentum throughout the event.     When it comes to execution, the conversation focuses heavily on human interaction. While games, competitions, and attractions can help capture attention, Steve Lloyd believes that well trained staff remain the most valuable asset on any exhibition stand. Great conversations consistently outperform gimmicks when it comes to building trust and generating quality leads.     The discussion also challenges the traditional approach to exhibition competitions. Rather than offering prizes that attract everyone, Steve Lloyd recommends prizes that attract the right people. A free workshop, assessment, training session, or educational event creates far more value than generic prizes that have no connection to your expertise. The goal is to bring prospects into your world and allow them to experience the value you provide.     Perhaps the most important takeaway from this episode is that exhibitions are not about making immediate sales. They are about starting meaningful conversations with the right people. Every interaction becomes part of a larger relationship building process that continues long after the exhibition has ended.     If you want to generate better results from your next event, this conversation with Steve Lloyd provides a practical framework you can implement immediately. From creating stronger messaging and improving stand design to building effective follow up systems, the advice shared in this episode will help you approach exhibitions with greater confidence, structure, and purpose.     Whether you are attending your first trade show or looking to improve the return on events you already invest in, the lessons from Steve Lloyd offer a clear roadmap for turning exhibitions into a powerful growth channel for your MSP.    Connect with Steve Lloyd through LinkedIn and his website.    Make sure to check out our Ultimate MSP Growth Guide, a free guide that walks you through a proven process to take your MSP from stuck to scalable, without working even more hours. It's 44 pages rammed with advice, insights and inspiration to help you decide what support is available to you now if you want to grow and scale your business. Click HERE to get your copy.    Connect on LinkedIn HERE with Ian and also with Stuart by clicking this LINK    And when you're ready to take the next step in growing your MSP, come and take the Scale with Confidence MSP Mastery Quiz. In just three minutes, you'll get a 360-degree scan of your MSP and identify the one or two tactics that could help you find more time, engage & align your people and generate more leads.    If you're serious about growth and want to explore what this could look like for your MSP, you can book a Right Fit Clarity Call with us HERE.  OR   To join our amazing Facebook Group of over 400 MSPs where we are helping you Scale Up with Confidence, then click HERE  Until next time, look after yourself and I'll catch up with you soon! 

Vendors supplying AI-driven technologies are experiencing sustained margin pressure from high operational costs and underwhelming business-level returns, leading to the rapid creation of new product categories that are pushed into the MSP channel. Companies such as Atomic Work, Silverfort, and Guards are releasing governance tools for managing AI agents, while Connect Secure is offering patch management products targeted at MSPs. These launches are not indicators of competitive differentiation, but of structural cost challenges being passed from vendors to their partners.   Business media reports and internal industry data reveal that while individual productivity from AI implementations increases—for example, by accelerating engineer output—the promised business-level gains in productivity, revenue, and profit have not materialized to the extent vendors projected. According to analysis cited by Dave Sobel, high operational costs are forcing large firms like Microsoft, Google, Amazon, and Uber to restrict or cap AI usage internally, reflecting an industry-wide retreat from premium pricing models due to an unclear return on investment at the organizational level.   Additional developments reinforce this margin-driven shift. The federal Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) has mandated 72-hour patching of high-risk vulnerabilities, underscoring heightened compliance requirements. Simultaneously, vendors are accelerating the rollout of governance, identity, and patch velocity tools. However, a study analyzing over 13,000 US MSPs found that those surpassing $1 million in revenue are distinguished by market positioning, online visibility, and business maturity, not by the breadth or novelty of their toolsets.   For operators, the implication is clear: stacking up new vendor products is now a baseline requirement rather than a path to competitive advantage. Firms that rely solely on vendor frameworks and toolsets risk absorbing more complexity without improving margin or differentiation. Practical separation will come from owning the "judgment layer"—defining, governing, and pricing how AI functions within client environments—rather than reselling tools. Positioning, documented governance, and clear operational standards will be more defensible than investing exclusively in vendor-driven offerings. 00:00 Manufactured Urgency  03:58 The Cost Confession 06:09 Out-Buy vs. Out-Position 08:35 Why Do We Care?    Supported by:  Nerdio  Sign up for the SMB Online Conference:  www.smbonlineconference.com

For this episode, I spoke with Jay Mellon, the co-founder and owner of AtNetPlus, a top-ranked MSP serving SMBs across Northeast Ohio and South Carolina, about the evolution of MSPs and the small to mid-sized companies they serve, and how AI, security and collaboration are driving this evolution. You can find more information about my guest on my blog at buckleyplanet.com/

Vendor channel consolidation continues to restructure the MSP landscape, with private equity-backed rollups driving both market concentration at the top and increased deal volume. This episode centers on the sale of Worksighted, a 25-year-old, $27 million revenue MSP with strong vertical focus in healthcare and construction, to Thrive in a 35-day close. The structural mechanism at play is an increasing market segmentation where larger MSPs systematically acquire or merge with similarly sized providers, often leaving a gap for smaller operators as larger entities move upmarket. Primary evidence for this consolidation includes direct transaction data and workflow. According to Abraham Garver, his team handled 132 vetted buyer candidates for Worksighted, resulting in eight competitive offers after 76 signed NDAs. Thrive, having completed 27 MSP acquisitions, was able to accelerate the deal's timeline due to deep experience and preparation by both buyer and seller. The trend is further supported by Q2 market updates indicating 22 U.S. MSPs likely to come to market in 2026 and over 120 M&A transactions in Q1 alone, as reported by Drake Star. Related developments highlight the bifurcation of deal opportunities by provider size and the associated liquidity for MSPs. Private equity buyers increasingly favor acquisitions with a minimum of $3 million in revenue and $500,000 in EBITDA, while smaller MSPs are more commonly left to pursue peer-to-peer mergers or organic growth strategies. The episode also addresses the operational pitfalls of optimizing solely for high recurring revenue percentages, with evidence suggesting buyers offer premiums for organic growth and new client acquisition rather than rigid recurring revenue thresholds. For operators, these dynamics generate clear tradeoffs and risks. Larger MSPs face the challenge of integrating acquired firms and potentially divesting smaller clients who do not meet their revised minimums. Smaller MSPs may find opportunity by acquiring divested clients or targeting niche segments that fall beneath larger consolidators' thresholds. For all providers, the importance of thorough preparation, clean financials, and strategic clarity on post-transaction roles emerges as a key safeguard against value loss and disruption. Rigid adherence to target metrics not grounded in buyer behavior—such as focusing excessively on monthly recurring revenue—carries the risk of reduced flexibility and diminished exit prospects. Sponsored by:ScalePad ABCS Sloutions LLC

A central discussion in the podcast focused on the applicability of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) for small Managed Service Providers (MSPs). Divergent perspectives were presented regarding whether the EOS framework is suitable for MSPs with very few staff. The conversation highlighted that while EOS provides accountability, transparency, and structured communication, some very small organizations (e.g., four employees or fewer) may find the framework's meeting cadence and process requirements disproportionate to their operational needs. It was noted that EOS promises value in promoting ownership and alignment but that this benefit is more likely realized when an organization reaches a scale where individual ad hoc communications become inefficient. Supporting these observations, it was emphasized that EOS, as detailed in resources such as Gino Wickman's book and related summaries, is designed with flexibility to span small, medium, and large teams. Examples were offered indicating that even companies with four employees have derived benefits through formalizing updates and consolidating communication, provided their baseline culture supports collective knowledge sharing. However, one position outlined that simply reading EOS materials may be sufficient for the smallest organizations to improve focus without fully implementing the structure, especially when daily meetings or formal processes are not otherwise necessary. The episode additionally examined risk management and operational best practices surrounding MSP business growth and eventual sale. The dialogue discouraged running a business constantly as if preparing for immediate sale, citing the need for risk-taking during growth phases. Factors such as maintaining diverse client portfolios, implementing clear master service agreements (MSAs), reducing owner dependency, and minimizing client concentration risk were underscored as practices that support both ongoing scalability and future valuation. A case was discussed in which valuation was negatively impacted by an overreliance on non-contracted, concentrated clients and a lack of W2 employees, illustrating the risk implications of operational decisions. For MSPs and IT service leaders, the discussion underscored the importance of regularly reviewing operational frameworks and business hygiene regardless of size. The tradeoffs between structure and agility require clear-eyed evaluation, particularly in managing risk, scaling sustainably, and ensuring future options for valuation or exit. While formal systems like EOS can strengthen accountability and communication, overengineering processes in very small teams may reduce efficiency. Careful attention to client diversification and contractual commitments is essential for risk reduction and maximizing enterprise value.   Title:    Is EOS good for a small MSP?What are we talking about today: MSP Question of the week: EOS framework in your business – is this good for MSPs? First introduced by Gino Wickman in his book Traction, the EOS framework focuses on aligning teams and driving execution  What the Heck is EOS? (shorter book)  AMYS NEW BOOK!!!   Top 20 questions - Should you run your business like you're going to sell it? Image of Amy's book  Amy's Book: https://amzn.to/4dSYOcR MSP struggle hiring good people – what do you do when you hire a mediocre employee?  Article reference: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/timothykoirtyohannsphr_their-new-hire-was-fired-after-28-days-share-7361376947848843264-5UwS/ What is your quote turnaround time? Tales from the Field: I was doing a valuation this week and shared the results with the owner --  Good revenue 1.5m, good NI 375K, GREAT MRR 75%, good location and team.   No contracts, no office, no employees only 1099, 1 client represents 50% of revenues, and owner wants full exit. Amy and James Events: SMB Online Conference- June 25th panel. Free registration for SMB Online Community members. Register at www.smbonlinecommunityconference.com Mastermind Event – July 30-31st, 2026 in Omaha, NE. Register at  https://kernanconsulting.com/mastermind-event/ Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Patch Tuesday goes big. Congress looks to harden critical infrastructure. A new Windows zero-day drops. Mobile AI creates security blind spots. AI agents fall for phishing. Browser extensions expose millions. Spammers hide behind Google Cloud Storage. CISA crowns its cyber champions. Our guest is Joe Sykora, CEO from Coro, discussing the MSP space and how to address it. Relentless robocalls retreat. Remember to leave us a 5-star rating and review in your favorite podcast app. Miss an episode? Sign-up for our daily intelligence roundup, Daily Briefing, and you'll never miss a beat. And be sure to follow CyberWire Daily on LinkedIn. CyberWire Guest On today's Industry Voices segment, we are joined by Joe Sykora, CEO from Coro, discussing the MSP space and how to address it. If you enjoyed this conversation be sure to check out the full interview here.  Selected Reading Microsoft's biggest-ever Patch Tuesday fixes 206 bugs, including 3 zero-days (Malwarebytes) ICS Patch Tuesday: Vulnerabilities Fixed by Siemens, Schneider, Phoenix Contact (SecurityWeek) Adobe Patches 123 Vulnerabilities (SecurityWeek) Warner proposes overhaul of critical infrastructure cyber plans as AI threats rise (Nextgov/FCW) New Windows Zero-Day Exploit 'RoguePlanet' Released (SecurityWeek) Lookout Study Reveals 93% of CISOs Blinded by False AI Confidence as 59% of Mobile AI Traffic Flows "Dark" (Lookout) Phishing for Lobsters: How We Tricked OpenClaw into Spilling Secrets (Varonis) MaXSS & Spyder: How two Chrome extensions allow websites to compromise over 10 million browsers (Rebora) How Spammers Are Hiding Behind Google and the New York Times (Comparitech) CISA names winners of seventh annual President's Cup cybersecurity competition (Industrial Cyber) U.S. Consumers Received Just Over 4.1 Billion Robocalls in May, According to YouMail Robocall Index (PR Newswire) Share your feedback. What do you think about CyberWire Daily? Please take a few minutes to share your thoughts with us by completing our brief listener survey. Thank you for helping us continue to improve our show. Want to hear your company in the show? N2K CyberWire helps you reach the industry's most influential leaders and operators, while building visibility, authority, and connectivity across the cybersecurity community. Learn more at sponsor.thecyberwire.com. The CyberWire is a production of N2K Networks, your source for strategic workforce intelligence. © N2K Networks, Inc. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us Fan MailWhat does it really take to perform at the highest level—on the field and in business?

Send us Fan MailWhat happens when a former elementary school teacher steps into the fast-paced world of tech sales and MSP project management?In this episode of Joey Pinz Conversations, Andrea McGlothin shares a powerful journey from teaching first graders how to read to helping MSPs structure projects for real profitability and success.

Send us Fan MailWhat separates a strong operator from a true leader—and how do you scale success across multiple companies?In this episode of Joey Pinz Conversations, Joey Pinz sits down with seasoned tech executive Jim Lippie to break down decades of experience across MSPs, SaaS companies, and multiple successful exits. From early days in the MSP space to leading SaaS growth and navigating acquisitions, Jim shares practical insights on leadership, metrics that matter, and what most operators overlook.

In this special episode of MSP 1337, CJ is joined by Brooke Lee (Rev.io) and Stacey Whitley (GTIA) to unpack how ITSPs can translate industry engagement into measurable outcomes. Attending events is easy, but most organizations struggle to turn what they learn into real operational outcomes. Brooke and Stacey share how their collaborative event recap initiative is helping bridge that gap by distilling key takeaways from major channel events into practical, accessible insights. More importantly, they highlight how GTIA serves as the connective tissue that sustains momentum beyond the event, enabling peer accountability, ongoing education, and real community engagement.The discussion reinforces the business value of GTIA membership beyond networking. From structured onboarding and mentorship to role-based education and vendor-neutral collaboration, GTIA provides a scalable approach to developing teams, reducing isolation, and accelerating organizational maturity. Brooke's perspective on embedding GTIA into Rev.io's onboarding model illustrates how intentional engagement can drive adoption and long-term ROI. Cybersecurity is a central theme, with a focus on GTIA's Cybersecurity Resource Hub, ISAO, and the GTIA Cybersecurity Trustmark Best Practices. Stacey emphasizes the importance of community-driven intelligence and real-time peer support, particularly during incidents, capabilities that many ITSPs struggle to access independently. The episode closes with a candid look at how authentic, experience-driven content, rather than polished production, builds trust, strengthens relationships, and lowers barriers to participation across the channel.Bottom line: GTIA is more than membership, it is more than a community, and as an association, it is greater than the sum of its parts. GTIA is a force multiplier for learning, accountability, and cybersecurity maturity when actively leveraged.

In this episode of MSP Business School, host Brian Doyle engages in a dynamic discussion with John Harden, a pioneer in the AI realm within the MSP industry. With an impressive 17-year tenure in the sector, John Harden brings an expert perspective on the rapid evolution of AI technology. As MSPs grapple with AI's practical applications and benefits, Harden provides insights into achieving scalability, responsibility, and repeatability with AI solutions. John also shares his experience of launching Lemhi, a new venture focused on guiding MSPs to effectively harness AI for service improvements and operational excellence. John Harden and Brian Doyle highlight how AI is transforming the landscape for MSPs. Through engaging dialogue, they discuss tooling, responsible deployment, and strategic implementation of AI to boost client relations and service offerings. They emphasize the importance of establishing a repeatable sales motion and developing a robust, manageable AI framework. Harden's Lemhi is positioned to directly address this by providing the necessary resources and expertise to integrate AI into MSP operations effectively, focusing on incremental value creation across all levels of client relationships. Key Takeaways: AI Strategy and Deployment: Successful AI integration requires repeatable, responsible, and scalable strategies, as articulated by John Harden based on his extensive research and experience. MSP Transformation: MSPs have an unprecedented opportunity to evolve into Managed Intelligence Providers, offering AI-driven solutions that enhance service offerings and deepen client engagement. Project vs. Ongoing Engagement: Rather than viewing AI implementations as one-off projects, MSPs can achieve greater value by adopting a continuous, relationship-focused approach that caters to individual job roles within client organizations. Lemhi's Offering: The launch of Lemhi aims to help MSPs initiate a repeatable sales motion around AI, supporting them with tools and frameworks for effective AI rollout and management. Open Engagement Opportunities: John emphasizes building in collaboration with design partners and actively encourages MSPs to engage with Lemhi for better alignment and co-development. Guest Name: John Harden LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-harden/ Company: Lemhi Website: https://www.lemhi.com/ Show Website: https://mspbusinessschool.com/ Host Brian Doyle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandoylevciotoolbox/ Sponsor vCIOToolbox: https://vciotoolbox.com

Description The Future of Tech is Here. Subscribe to our Newsletter:https://theultimatepartner.com/ebook-subscribe/ Check Out UPX:https://theultimatepartner.com/experience/ In this presentation from Ultimate Partner Live, industry analyst Jay McBain breaks down the monumental macroeconomic shifts rewriting the tech sector in 2026. https://youtu.be/r0qTDyw97Gs As the industry rapidly approaches a $6.07 trillion valuation, driven by massive AI infrastructure investments from Sam Altman and the “Magnificent Seven,” traditional sales and channel models are fundamentally collapsing. McBain reveals how buyer demographics have transformed to an integration-first millennial base, why marketplace ecosystems now command over half of all partner-funded deals, and how a tiny elite of just 1,000 tech service providers control two-thirds of global tech revenue. Learn the exact mechanics behind how Microsoft out-partnered AWS to win 26 straight quarters of dominant growth and how your business can deploy an algorithmic early warning system to capture massive wallet share before competitors even step into the boardroom. Key Takeaways Over half of the Fortune 500 companies vanish every 20 years because their leadership fails to anticipate macroeconomic technological cycles. The true opportunity in the $6.5 trillion AI boom lies not in single vendor products, but in the hardware, software, services, and telecom ecosystem surrounding them. Indirect tech sales are undergoing a structural shift toward direct cloud hyperscaler models driven heavily by Nvidia's core infrastructure client base. Modern business deals are won or lost months before the point of sale based on the average of 6.3 partners surrounding a customer’s environment. Over 51% of tech buyers are now millennials who prioritize software integration capabilities and digital marketplaces over traditional human sales interactions. Tech service economics are pivoting aggressively away from upfront margins toward point-based multi-partner funding across subscription cycles. If you're ready to lead through change, elevate your business, and achieve extraordinary outcomes through the power of partnership—this is your community. At Ultimate Partner® we want leaders like you to join us in the Ultimate Partner Experience – where transformation begins. Key Tags Nvidia AI buildout, $7 trillion AI opportunity, cloud ecosystem decade, Microsoft vs AWS growth, multi-partner cloud deals, digital marketplace migration, millennial B2B buyers, B2B tech subscription economics, tokenized micro consumption, tech services wallet share, hybrid cloud infrastructure, 28 customer moments, IT services industry growth, telecom spend breakdown, channel chief strategy, managed service providers MSP, global systems integrators GSI, software integration first, point-based vendor incentives, automated co-selling workflows Transcript JAY McBAIN AUDIO PODCAST [00:00:00] Jay McBain: So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book, but chapter one is always you Blame the CEO. [00:00:13] Vince Menzione: We just came back from Ultimate Partner live in Bellevue, Washington, where we hosted incredible leaders for two amazing days. Come join us for this next session where we explore the tectonic shifts we’ve all been seeing. With that, I am incredibly blessed to invite a friend of mine to the stage. I have a quick little side note, like I found an old LinkedIn post from this gentleman from like many years ago, like 20 years ago. [00:00:39] Vince Menzione: And I wasn’t really that nice to you on that LinkedIn post. Like, oh, like this is before Jay became the Jay, that we all know Jay to be j. But he was in the space and I was at Microsoft doing something and he reached out about something. It was kind of rude, Jay. I was like, oh my gosh. I can’t believe. But Jay has been a great friend. [00:00:54] Vince Menzione: When we started the podcast back up, uh, during COVID we started doing podcasts together. When we moved to the studio, Jay was the first person in the studio. He’s always got a spot, uh, at our events. He’s s Spot Art, and, and he’s a great friend and supporter of Ultimate Partner Jay McBain. For those of you who don’t know him, Jay, welcome. [00:01:13] Vince Menzione: Thank you, sir. [00:01:22] Jay McBain: 31 days ago, we landed Artemis two. The furthest humans have ever been away from the planet Earth 57 years ago. We landed on the moon in the 56 years. Between those two moments, the tech industry has been the fastest growing industry in the world. Every single year we moved from the space race to the technology race, and we’re just getting started. [00:01:46] Jay McBain: If you’re old enough, you’ll recognize the mainframe and mini era for 20 years. You’ll recognize a young disheveled Bill Gates showing up in Boca Raton, Florida for, uh, August the 12th, 1981 launch, where Bill thought that every one of us would’ve a PC in our home, and IBM thought they were gonna sell 10,000 of them to hobbyists. [00:02:12] Jay McBain: 1999, a small startup from an executive who just left Oracle in San Francisco named Mark Benioff. A couple of years later, Jeff Bezos went into a boardroom and said, listen, we’ve spent a lot of money building infrastructure to our busiest day, Christmas, black Friday. You’re telling me this stuff sits idle 10 or 20% for the rest of the year. [00:02:35] Jay McBain: Why don’t we rent that out to others? Got laughed outta that boardroom and then got made of fun of on magazine covers. Maybe you should just tend the store, let the adults talk about technology. In March of 2023, our neighbors, our friends, our family saw DeepFakes. They saw poetry, they saw music, and they came to us as tech people and said, did we just light up Skynet? [00:03:03] Jay McBain: Now every one of these 20 year eras, this is the Taylor Swift version of our industry. Every single one of these eras triggers the fastest growing product in history. Today it’s actually Chacha bt first to a billion users. It triggers a new, richest person in the world, bill Gates, to Jeff Bezos. Now, Elon Musk is the first to sign a trillion dollar pay package, and it’s not for car. [00:03:27] Jay McBain: It’s not for cars. It also triggers a most valuable company in the world change. And today that’s nvidia. These are monumental changes in our industry and they’re monumental changes in partnering every single time. And it also links to our customers. If you take a 20 year view of business, one era, and, and think about the AI era, you know, at the start of it here, if you’re to grab the Fortune 500 magazine from 20 years ago and start to flip through it, 53% of the companies in there no longer exist. [00:04:06] Jay McBain: Every 20 year cycle, we lose over half of the biggest companies in the world. These are the companies that have very deep pockets to buy their way outta problems. If you’re not in the Fortune 571% of tech companies don’t make it 10 years. These are the changes that cost industries. There are changes that cost really big companies and the decisions we make, the trends we’re in right now, in 2026 will be written about in the future. [00:04:39] Jay McBain: This new era, a lot of big numbers being thrown around. Vince’s best friend talk about a six and a half trillion dollar AI opportunity, but it’s not Microsoft’s tam. Microsoft is chasing about a trillion dollars of this. And the ecosystem, the hardware, the software, the services, the telecom is gonna make up the rest. [00:05:04] Jay McBain: It is an ecosystem. Every time these big numbers are thrown, the word ecosystem is always thrown around it. Not to be outdone, Sam Altman’s talking about a $7 trillion build out. The world economy this year, the world GDP will be 126. These are material numbers to world GDP, but even better, they’re both larger than our entire industry is today. [00:05:27] Jay McBain: So what took 56 years of the fastest growing industry this year will be $6.07 trillion. Big numbers, but it’s easier to think about it in terms of a dollar that our customers spend in that dollar. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on hardware. They’re gonna spend 25 cents on software. So for anyone that read the memo 15 years ago, that software’s gonna eat the world, there’s still a dollar a hardware to run every dollar of that software. [00:05:57] Jay McBain: And whether you’re thinking humanoid robots or whichever future you’re envisioning, there’s going to be a dollar of hardware to run every dollar of software for the next 20 years. There’s over 25 cents now in IT services, and in many cases, these services are growing faster than the product categories and just under 25 cents in telecom, that’s how it breaks out today. [00:06:19] Jay McBain: And this industry, which took 56 years to get to this point, is gonna double in size in the next three to five years. We already have two and a half trillion of that seven raised and being spent. Part of the reason Nvidia is the most valuable company in the world. Now our industry, uh, you talk about ultimate partnerships. [00:06:40] Jay McBain: Our industry traditionally, and world trade by the way, is 75% indirect. The dealerships, the agencies, the brokers, the resellers, the retailers, the franchisees, the gas stations, the grocery stores, the pharmacies, all 27 industries sell indirect. You gotta think back the last time you bought something direct. [00:07:01] Jay McBain: Well, I bought a Dell from that dude in the nineties. Cool. Well, Dell Technologies is now 60% indirect. Well, I bought insurance. Direct is 15 minutes. Could save me 15%. Well, Geico last year sold more insurance through agencies and brokers than they did direct. This is the world now. We used to be 75% indirect four years ago. [00:07:26] Jay McBain: Then it went to 73.2, then it went to 70.1 and it then it went to 66.7. By the way, marketplace is in these numbers indirect. It’s not marketplace causing this change. It’s one company, Nvidia. Nvidia has seven customers. The magnificent seven, uh, half of them are in the room right now that every morning we wake up to a hundred billion dollars press release about this $7 trillion buildout. [00:07:56] Jay McBain: What’s interesting is indirect sales in our industry is growing by revenue. It increases every year, just not at the pace that this AI build out is happening direct with seven companies. But the reason we’re all here, and I think the core reason that Vince is building this community is this, you know, Microsoft forever has measured and been very vocal. [00:08:21] Jay McBain: About 96% of their deals have partners in them. Kind of who cares, who collects the money. We care about the moments, the 28 moments before the customer makes a purchase. We care about every 30 days forever, because two thirds of our industry, over $4 trillion now is subscription consumption based. Winning a customer today is only winning the first 30 days. [00:08:46] Jay McBain: We care about this cycle. We care about who surrounds our customer. So six years ago, I stood on a big stage and said, you know, we went through a decade of sales. You know, in 1999, you thought you were born to be a salesperson. You’re managing your territory with your gut. Well, a few years later, you were introduced to the science of selling. [00:09:07] Jay McBain: You know, 10 years later you thought as a marketer, you sit around a cocktail party joking with your friends, 50% of my marketing dollars are wasted. I just don’t know which 50%. Really funny. In 2009 until every 58-year-old CMO got replaced by a 38-year-old growth hacker. Coming in with Marketo and Eloqua and Pardot and HubSpot, and 15,505 as of yesterday, MarTech and iTech tools, ninjas in marketing, they wouldn’t let a nickel go through without measuring. [00:09:43] Jay McBain: Now we understand 96% of deals and partners that surround it. No deal is gonna be won or lost in this era without partnering effectively. So we had to have this decade of the ecosystem. One of the ways we’re tracking is by outsiders. You know, Salesforce every year publishes the state of sales and they’ve got, you know, the number one CRM in the world. [00:10:05] Jay McBain: So they get to go talk to all the CROs, all the salespeople in the world. And as of this year, a couple months ago, 94% of every salesperson in every industry in the world uses partners every single day. You wanna see what this number was six years ago. Also, 89% of salespeople around the world don’t think they’re going to club this year without partners. [00:10:29] Jay McBain: So this is a big moment for us, halfway through the decade ecosystem, but we’re only halfway through. We’re starting to understand now at a more granular level. What partnering means. It’s not theory, it’s not flywheels. It’s not really cute. McKinsey slides that we keep showing to our board saying how important partnering is. [00:10:51] Jay McBain: We’re trying to get to the very specific level of the 6.3 partners on average that surround the deal and what they’re doing. How their business model works, and that’s average if I’m working on a public sector deal. I was at a Red Hat conference yesterday talking sovereignty. If I’m in an enterprise or a large public sector deal, it’s north of 10 partners in the deal. [00:11:15] Jay McBain: So we’re starting to understand what used to be this, this, you know, you’ve been the fastest growing industry for 56 straight years. Every single professional services person in every industry has come in to join the fund. Over 90% of accountants are tech services firms. Over 90% of marketing agencies are tech services agencies. [00:11:36] Jay McBain: All of this 250,000 software companies, a million emerging comp tech companies, the half a million VAR that have been in that traditional channel. The managed service providers, all of these 20 different partner types, millions of companies, tens of millions of people competing for 6.3 spots. Around the customer. [00:11:58] Jay McBain: That’s it. Luckily, there’s 141 million global customers to compete for. There’s, there’s some open slots that you can go find, and that’s the point. Our industry never had our own Fortune 500. We always talk to, you know, these partners and GSIs are doing this and SI are doing that. And we never really had a view of capability and capacity or what our own TAM was inside of that partnering. [00:12:25] Jay McBain: And so we set out and we would’ve loved, you know, chat GPT or Gemini or Claude or any of those tools to do this. But there’s one problem in partnering with AI is that it doesn’t know one partner from the next. There’s a big digital sameness problem in our industry that every single partner, whether it’s Larry in the White van or Accenture, with 786,000 employees all say they do all things to all people all the time. [00:12:53] Jay McBain: 98% of them, 99% of them are private companies that don’t share their p and l. You can’t go into Microsoft’s LinkedIn system and find out how many employees, ’cause it’s a block system, it AI can’t see into it. So it just sees, and it’s a great pattern matching. Google, SEO can’t figure out who’s who, nor today can the large language models. [00:13:14] Jay McBain: ’cause all the things they’re trying to match, the transformers are trying to match. It all looks the same. Every tweet, every ebook, every website, every digital history looks the same. So this took us thousands of people hours across two years to do, to dig into every p and l to dig into every dollar of what they’re doing. [00:13:33] Jay McBain: But what was interesting is only a thousand partners in our industry do two thirds of all tech services. When you get into enterprise, it goes up to 80 to 90%. The partners in the middle, in Blue do more tech services. The 30 of them than the 970 partners in white on the outside, the 970 partners in White do more tech services than the next million combined. [00:14:03] Jay McBain: This is our industry in a nutshell. Every time we talk to a a vendor, every time we talk to a partner, every time we talk to a distributor, we’re now talking names, faces, and places. You you wanna talk sovereignty. Yesterday in Atlanta, 90% of sovereign conversations in public sector in the globe is handled by these companies here. [00:14:26] Jay McBain: Forget about how much you do with these partners today. You wanna chase the next column, which is the wallet share. And I was a channel chief for 17 years. I get the weekly report and I see a million dollar partner, another million dollar partner, sorted top to bottom. You don’t know which partners which, which of those million dollar partners is doing 1.2 million in your category. [00:14:46] Jay McBain: They deserve a baseball cap and a front row seat at your event as an MVP. The next partner right next to them is doing 10 million in your category. They’re only doing a million with you. ’cause customers are pulling them into it. Nine times outta 10. They’re leading with your competitor. So I don’t want that list anymore. [00:15:03] Jay McBain: I want the new list, which is showing me those $9 million opportunities. And I as a board member, as A CEO, as a CFO, as a CRO, I wanna see this list. And then I want to talk people, processes, programs, technology. What are we gonna do to go get our fair share of that 9 million? Where’s our lowest hanging fruit? [00:15:24] Jay McBain: How do we double our pipeline? How do we double the size of our company in three years? It’s all right here. Let’s have very specific conversations and move away from flywheels and move around from force multipliers and and things like that in partnering. Let’s figure out how this partner community is surrounded. [00:15:45] Jay McBain: What do 10 million people who have to be smart in front of their customers every single day, what do they read? Where do they go and who do they follow? It’s the law of a few. This is the old Malcolm Gladwell of tipping point 10 million people in the broader channel. A hundred percent of our TAM comes down to only a thousand watering holes. [00:16:08] Jay McBain: 12% of that entire audience. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but it’s over A million. People love podcasts. Number one way they learn the Joe Rogan effect. In our industry, there’s 121 podcasts. These are all public lists. You can go get on my LinkedIn newsletter on canals, oia. But there’s 121 podcasts that drive him forward. [00:16:28] Jay McBain: Really high up on that list, actually number one on the list is ultimate partner, Vince. That’s how I met. ’cause I asked people, 10 million people, you love this. You walk your dog, you drive to work, you listen to podcasts. I’m not the biggest podcast fan. It’s not number one on my list, but it’s number one on theirs. [00:16:44] Jay McBain: They say, you know, you gotta meet this guy, Vince. It’s unbelievable how great these podcasts are. They’re ultimate. [00:16:54] Jay McBain: Then I talked to Vince and said, but Vince, you know, 35% of your community, the 10 million people love to come to events like this one. The hallway conversations, the hotel lobby bar last night. This is what we love to do, especially post pandemic. It’s the number one way we learn. We learn from our peers, we learn from those around us, and, and the learn from the conversations we have here. [00:17:17] Jay McBain: We always remember these moments, you know, years and years later. There’s 352 choices. I’m going to five of them this week in five different cities. It’s a lot of coverage, but again, it’s a tighter li list of how people work. The magazine lists 106 of them associations like Conter. Now the GTIA peer groups, there’s 15 different spheres of influence, but only a thousand places. [00:17:43] Jay McBain: I could walk you through billionaire, after billionaire, after billionaire in this industry and show you how they did this. How did Arne Bellini at ConnectWise? How did Austin McCord at Datto, how did Nerdio become a unicorn? How did threat locker and huntress move away from 6,500 cyber companies and become unicorns over and over and over again? [00:18:05] Jay McBain: It’s only one slide. Unicorns and billionaires are made here, and a lot of people don’t get it. So walking away from Bellevue, a thousand partners, top down, a thousand watering holes, bottoms up. You’ve covered a hundred percent of your tam. You do it better than 10% of your competitor, 10% better than your competitors. [00:18:27] Jay McBain: You win. You carry that on your resume into the next company. You get a bigger job at a bigger pay scale. Let’s just walk through some examples. Cyber 91.7% of it goes through the channel. Huge channel audience. You know, if you’re in MarTech, it’s only 10%, but this one happens to be all channel, but that’s not the story. [00:18:48] Jay McBain: For every dollar that the 6,500 cyber companies are trying to close, there’s $2 in services. Plot twist, the products are grown at 11, the services are grown at 12.6. Your partners are growing faster than you are, and they will continue to for the next, at least five years, probably 10. So when I’m here, five years from now, you’ll hear in me talk about a three to one split in cyber and then a four to one split in cyber. [00:19:18] Jay McBain: Now, when we’re in Miami a couple days ago is CrowdStrike, they’re talking about a $7 and 5 cent multiplier, chasing that two to one up higher. You look at managed services. Here’s a fun story. Managed services. 82% of customers who are man, uh, outsourcing more this year than last year. 650 billion in size. [00:19:38] Jay McBain: This is bigger than the entire SaaS industry. Salesforce, ServiceNow, Workday, Marketo, NetSuite, HubSpot, 250,000. Others. This is bigger. It’s also bigger than all the Hyperscalers combined, not just AWS, Microsoft and Google, but Alibaba and Oracle and everybody down the list. This is a massive market also growing at double digits. [00:19:59] Jay McBain: So these are some big things and obviously we’re watching, you know, week in and week out, quarter in, quarter out, the Battle of Software and Battle of the Hyperscalers and things like that, and who’s growing at what pace and, and how partnering is connecting to all of this. You know, we watched a moment really early in the pandemic where Microsoft started growing faster than AWS and they haven’t stopped since 26 straight quarters. [00:20:27] Jay McBain: And you ask customers and say, you know, does Microsoft have a better product? And in most cases they say no. You know, AWS had a five year head start. Well, did they have a better price? Well, no, actually most cases Microsoft’s more expensive. Well, did did they have better promotion? Was their Super Bowl ad better? [00:20:44] Jay McBain: No, they’re both kind of crap. So you kind of ask the questions of what’s the only difference that could create growth above the leader in the market? Well, it’s place. More of the 6.3 partners are walking into those keyboard room meetings and drawing clouds up on the wall and labeling the Microsoft than they are AWS. [00:21:03] Jay McBain: Very simple. It’s never been about product. The best product in our industry has never won. And now the best way forward is that partnering moment, and this is the moment. So to go back to that story about the 53% of companies who are gonna fail, one of us is gonna be asked to write the book. And it could be the book like Kodak, they invented the product that ended up killing them. [00:21:26] Jay McBain: And it’s a woe is me story, but chapter one is always you blame the CEO. How could they not see those trends happening in 2026? How could they, you know, were they blind? Were they stuck in their own, you know, innovation chamber? Innovator’s dilemma, were they stuck in their own boardrooms? Why couldn’t they see? [00:21:46] Jay McBain: Well, chapter two, you, you blame the board. They have fiduciary responsibility, outsider view, and how could they not see it? But really, this is the future right here. If you take this slide and apply it 10 or 20 years from now to every failure and every success, these are the chapters of the book. Your buyer is now a millennial. [00:22:05] Jay McBain: As of last year, the 51% of our market is bought by people born after 1982. Different psychology, different behavior, different journey, different criteria, their integration. First buyers. The buy a product, 80% as good as the next one. If it works better in their environment. 94% of people won’t buy a car unless it has CarPlay or Android Auto. [00:22:26] Jay McBain: New Buyer. You have to be more integrated than your competitors. That’s a partnering story. The 6.3 partners. If you heard cyber, you need some great channel partnerships, but you need the other 5.3 partners as well, the consultants, the advisors, the designers, the architects, the implementers, the integrators, the manner service, all of the other partners. [00:22:44] Jay McBain: You need to know more of them than your competitors do, and have them label clouds with your name in them. You need better alliances. Even if you compete, you only compete in the morning. You’re best friends by the afternoon. You have to be tight with the hyperscalers, tight, with the big SaaS platforms, tight with cyber, tight with distribution, there are layers, seven layers to every deal. [00:23:04] Jay McBain: You gotta be tight in and have better alliances than your competitors. And then it all comes to the 28 moments, which I’m gonna end on, but the go to market of all of this, the co-selling, co-marketing, co-innovation, co-development, co keeping. This is it. Your product has to be good enough that somebody’s gonna renew it. [00:23:21] Jay McBain: Your Super Bowl has to be, you know, ad has to be good enough that people don’t, you know, shame you on social media. Your pricing has to be somewhere in a country mile of the bell curve of what the customer wants to pay. But successor failure is just here and platforms are synonymous with partnering. [00:23:40] Jay McBain: It’s our role now in the decade of the ecosystem to drive our companies forward. Marketplace. It’s probably the most predict, you know, great prediction we ever made. You know, growing at 82% compounded, it’s hard to predict ’cause it doubles almost every year. We were almost exact to the decimal point. Five years later now till 2030, we’re watching a second story, which is more interesting. [00:24:02] Jay McBain: If 96% of all deals have partners inside of them and there’s private offers and multi-partner offers and distributor sellers record all these funding mechanisms or services as a product. As of last week, over 50% of all deals in marketplaces now have partner funding. It means that while money changes hands differently, the respect and the recognition of what partners do is in the deal. [00:24:26] Jay McBain: We think that’s going to 59, but at some point, that’s gonna have to hit 96. ’cause to run the best programs, whether it’s an indirect sale, whether it’s a direct sale, whether it’s a marketplace deal, it doesn’t matter how money changes hands. What matters is we recognize the 6.3 partners. They’re not only making the deal happen bigger and faster, but renewing and enriching that every 30 days forever. [00:24:48] Jay McBain: When we watch, you know, billion dollar clubs and when we read all the press releases and all the hubbub about how fast this is growing and who, which companies are behind all this. When I’m quoted in some of these press releases, it’s because of this. You know, CrowdStrike, you know, brags are a billion dollars in a single year, but inside of that, they’re showing that 91% growth in marketplaces, which is pretty phenomenal for any company to almost double in size every single year. [00:25:17] Jay McBain: What’s more phenomenal is they’re growing the channel piece of it, 3548%. That green part of it is growing. Companies that understand platform and have people and processes and programs and technology to do it are winning. And they’re getting recognition and partners are starting to join the Billion Dollar Club who don’t sell a product, but are also winning at Extreme Scale. [00:25:44] Jay McBain: So talk about those partner 1000 and who are leaning in to win at this level. As well as everything changes, traditional billing moved into subscription models, moved into consumption models. Now we’re being tokenized to death multi it’s, it’s in this mode of micro consumption. There’s no chance there was little chance in subscription consumption that would be resold. [00:26:09] Jay McBain: You don’t buy Netflix from the cable guy in the white van. There’s zero chance when you’re buying tokens at a buck a piece that that’s going through any indirect sale. This continues to grow. Now the tectonic shifts is what happens when money changes hands differently. These old programs that we used to all write hundreds of different boxes, we checked every day on deal reg and trainings and all the other things are changing. [00:26:35] Jay McBain: To this, you’ll get these slides, by the way, in high res, inside of this now is the customer. For the first time ever, 45 years later, we have the customer in the middle of what we do, the 28 moments in green before they buy the seven layer stack and the partners inside it. The implementation. The integration, the managed services in a cycle that never ends, and two thirds of our industry. [00:26:55] Jay McBain: With the customer in the middle, we can now move money around to the different moments. It’s not all landing in front or backend margins or market development funds or new customer bonuses or spiffs. It’s landing where it needs to land. Over 400 companies now, pretty much led by Microsoft 400 companies are in a point system right now and 400 more. [00:27:18] Jay McBain: We’re working kind of behind the scenes to get that announced in the next 12 months. This is a total changeover in terms of how economics work and partners are yelling over half of us. I don’t care. Don’t call me a VAR anymore. Don’t call me an MSP. Don’t call me a regional system integrator. I do the consulting over half the time. [00:27:36] Jay McBain: I do the design, I do the implementations, I do the managed services, and 44% of us are vibe coding. On weekends. We’re not happy. Just on the services side. We wanna join the seven layer tech stack as well. These are partners growing faster than their vendors by understanding this cycle and where to show up and where the money is in ai. [00:27:56] Jay McBain: And the number one thing they’re asking for is not more leads, which they did for 45 years. The number one thing is now recognized for what I do. I’ve never just been a cash register. We’re completely now past this idea of a channel being a channel of distribution, and now a channel being this platform for the future. [00:28:16] Jay McBain: As we lay that on top of ai, the first couple of years of AI has really been consumer driven. The 95% failure rate that MIT reported last year is now 70%. That’s the failure to get from proof of concept to production. That 70 will be 50 by the summer we’re moving now in business, the maturity rates are going up at the end customer and in 88% of cases, that’s because of the channel. [00:28:43] Jay McBain: They’re working with partners. They’re not vibe coding themselves and working in little skunkwork groups. They’re working with partners to make it happen, and it now becomes the partner’s number one growth opportunity. I can grow at 11 or 12% in cyber every year. Compounded I can grow in 10% in managed services. [00:29:03] Jay McBain: You know, those are great double digit growth ’cause my customers are growing at 2.7% and I can go four x my customer, but I can go 10 x my customer if I have the right services built around ai. And this compounded growth rate and that big number in 2 20 32, 267 is what’s got those top 1000 partners obsessed. [00:29:25] Jay McBain: And your companies are leading with ai. Now you need to connect to those AI services. You need to get partners on this scale of growth. And they will be adding your name inside every cloud. They write on every whiteboard, but 82% of partners around the world, you know, we survey 25,000 of them aren’t ready, and they’re blaming vendors for not being ready, and they’re telling them exactly the workshops and the training that they need to get ready for this cycle. [00:29:53] Jay McBain: 82% of our entire partner, tens of millions of people, aren’t ready to grow at 35% and they need our help. Last thing I’ll say about AI is it’s the first time from client server to cloud, edge to cloud that it’s been segment driven. SMB alone has one, you know, six different segments, one to nine, 10 to 24, 25 to 49, et cetera. [00:30:18] Jay McBain: Mid-market into enterprise. No one that runs a restaurant is calling Jensen to buy a GPU to put next to the stove. No one’s calling Sam or Dario or anyone at Anthropic or OpenAI directly. They’re waiting. If you run a restaurant with all the people running around with tablets, you’ve invested in toast or square or clover or one of the platforms to run your business. [00:30:41] Jay McBain: A hundred different things. And you’re gonna wait for toast to work with a hyperscaler and build out the capabilities genetically. So when they see a spike in Uber Eats orders, they automatically place a food order and automatically change the staffing to deliver on it. That’s what the restaurant’s waiting for, and there’s no one calling and having a big a agent conversation. [00:31:03] Jay McBain: But even if you go into hundreds of people in medium sized business, every one of the vice presidents have their tech stack already built. I talked about the marketing person already, but the HR leader has one, and everybody’s got their seven layer stack. They’re not calling to buy a GPU and they’re not calling to, you know, bring in open AI directly or, or anthropic. [00:31:22] Jay McBain: They’re waiting for the platform they built to integrate together ag agenta capabilities. Everybody’s in wait mode up until enterprise and public, large public sector. So we are looking at this market and at 90% of that AI market is run by those thousand companies, and the rest of the millions of partners are helping in terms of how these businesses are gonna change at that level. [00:31:46] Jay McBain: Here’s where I end. You know, the 28 moments used to be a theory. It used to be a flywheel. How do we buy a car? [00:31:55] Vince Menzione: Well, we Google it, [00:31:57] Jay McBain: 81% of us now, 94% of us use large language models. We find out that there’s 365 brands of car. I’d have to test drive one every day of the year to get through them all. So we start narrowing these things down. [00:32:09] Jay McBain: We configure it. We put our rims on it, we color it. We download the invoice price. We download the backend rebates this month, whether I buy it in May or June, we find out what 5,000 people paid for our exact car within 50 miles of us. And then we don’t wanna go to the dealer because we know more than the salesperson, the manager ever will. [00:32:26] Jay McBain: We know what we’re gonna pay within, you know, dollars or cents. Just carvana the car. Hand me the keys. Let’s just forget the whole eight hour back and forth. I’ll get you a deal thing. I’m smarter than you in technology. Our customers are smarter than us, smarter than salespeople. That’s why 75% of millennials don’t wanna talk to a salesperson. [00:32:48] Jay McBain: They want to end digitally, and by the way, they’re not gonna send a fax after 28 digital moments. They’re gonna end on a digital marketplace. This is all demographics. It’s not hard to see where it’s going, but we’re getting into names, faces, places again. What if every dollar of your tam, the board, the CEO, runs around with their big multi-billion dollar number, they’re chasing? [00:33:09] Jay McBain: What if every single deal looks the exact same? This is a deal with AstraZeneca, A real deal, real customer spending millions of dollars. We know it starts in October, it ends in April. It’s a six month cycle. We see what they read, the MQ ls at the beginning. We see the sales demo moments. We see ISV, but we’ve never had the light blue boxes. [00:33:30] Jay McBain: What if we as a team could overlay the 6.3 partners in this deal? And when you find out a couple things. Here’s where I end. In December, five deals were one, three of them by NTT. The person at NTT probably coaches AstraZeneca’s, you know, kids’ soccer team. They probably have a cottage together at the lake. [00:33:50] Jay McBain: For the last 20 years, if the person at NTT worked at Deloitte, Deloitte would’ve run this deal. But Software One and Yash are both there, so we understand that when they were drawing clouds up on the wall in the boardroom in December, this deal was won and lost there. It was not won and lost at the point of sale. [00:34:09] Jay McBain: So what if you knew more about this and could see every dollar in your tam? You had an early warning system that this was happening. Two things jump out at this now that we’re in Bellevue. AWS was touched twice in this deal, directly in the marketing cycle and the sales cycle. AWS lost this deal. Here’s an example of Microsoft winning a deal with Microsoft never being touched. [00:34:34] Jay McBain: For some reason, NTT who won, who won AWS’s partner of the year a couple years ago led with Microsoft, so did Software one, Microsoft’s biggest reseller in Europe, and as did Yash, they all led with Microsoft and without Microsoft, knowing Microsoft took a multimillion dollar deal away from their competitors by winning in December. [00:34:53] Jay McBain: That’s one. Second. These partners didn’t just show up other than soccer and cottages. They didn’t show up in December. It went closed one in their CRM system. Back in the summer, August, September, we already knew AstraZeneca was in market, spending millions of dollars. We didn’t need them to read an ebook or go to an event to find that out. [00:35:17] Jay McBain: We knew it because it was closed one. They’re spending hundreds of thousands of dollars times five in December to know what to do at the end. This is an early warning system that’s better than any MQL, better than any SQL. And if you could give your company these level of view into their pipeline with an early warning system that I can work with those partners for months before they ever show up at the customer’s boardroom. [00:35:44] Jay McBain: This is it. Talk about 47% winners. This takes you from not only surviving the AI era to being a top five platform winner. Thank you very much. [00:36:01] Vince Menzione: Until next time, we’ll see you in person. Hopefully at our next event.

Have you noticed that the smartest people aren't always the best communicators? What if the key isn't sounding more impressive, but being easier to understand?Tune in to my conversation with Chris Farr and learn:Why it's crucial to use simple language when you share complex ideasHow to translate technical or complicated ideas into language people can act onHow not to avoid hard conversationsHow to make difficult conversations not so dreadfulHow to be direct and at the same time respectfulHow direct and honest feedback improves relationships and productivityThe difference between sounding confident and actually building confidence as a leaderThe biggest mistake in communication leaders make nowadays Chris Farr is a technology leader, author of Built In The Trenches, and Vice President of Operations at Invision Technologies. With more than 20 years in IT and a decade leading in the MSP space, Chris helps leaders communicate with more clarity, confidence, and accountability, especially when the pressure is high and the conversation matters.Check out Chris's book: https://a.co/d/07cWi822Connect with him: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-farr-409b3585

Victor Lopez on Fixing Broken MSP Financial Plumbing with AI Todd interviews Victor Lopez, a former attorney and private credit professional at Blue Owl Capital who co-founded Flexpoint after seeing how clunky MSP financial tools were. Victor traces his "aha" back to Blue Owl financing Thoma Bravo's 2018 acquisition of ConnectWise, which led him to question why PSAs mix ticketing/project work with invoicing while still requiring separate accounting software. They discuss how most AI talk in the MSP industry centers on service delivery, but Victor argues owners should also apply AI to operations like accounts receivable/payable, collecting and making payments, payroll, and other non-revenue tasks that often fall on owner-operators (especially in sub-$1M MSPs).  Victor describes AI agents, including voice AI for overdue invoice calls, and emphasizes human-in-the-loop controls, segmenting which customers are contacted, and escalation to a human to protect relationships while improving efficiency and owner quality of life. This episode is brought to you by Opsleader Pro. A place for MSP owners and managers to get the systems and tools they need to build a stable and growing MSP. Part group coaching, part peer group, everything you need to run a successful MSP. 00:00 Meet Victor Lopez 01:20 From Law to Flexpoint 02:02 ConnectWise Deal Spark 02:57 Why PSA Billing Exists 05:35 AI Beyond Tickets 08:13 Operational AI Wins 14:09 Agentic AI for AR 16:50 Join Opsleader 17:26 Controls and Oversight 22:09 Voice Agents Calling Clients 28:27 Owner Time and Quality 32:20 Wrap Up and Takeaways

Trooper Michael Proctor is back in the news for all the same reasons you would expect. More and more examples of how truly vile he and others in the CPD & MSP actually are have been revealed in a new lawsuit brought against them by Karen Read and her team. We censor a lot but still be advised.Follow us on Instagram @MAFPodcastShowEmail us at MAFPodcastShow@gmail.com

Michael Amiri joins MSP Unplugged to break down the emerging model of MSP-as-a-Service (MSPaaS) — a game-changing approach that's helping MSPs scale faster, reduce operational overhead, and deliver better outcomes to clients. In this episode, Michael shares: What MSP-as-a-Service really means and why it's gaining traction in 2026 How MSPaaS differs from traditional managed services models The biggest benefits and challenges of adopting an MSP-as-a-Service delivery model How MSPs can leverage platforms and partnerships to operate more efficiently Practical insights on transitioning your MSP toward this modern service model What the future holds for MSPs who embrace MSPaaS vs. those who don't Whether you're looking to modernize your MSP, reduce burnout, improve scalability, or stay competitive in a rapidly evolving market, this conversation delivers clear, actionable insights from someone deeply involved in the MSP-as-a-Service space.  

Can businesses still rely on cybersecurity strategies that were designed for a very different threat environment? In this episode of Tech Talks Daily, I speak with Matt Knell from ESET about why many managed service providers and businesses are being forced to rethink what effective cybersecurity looks like in 2026. As cybercriminals become faster, more sophisticated, and increasingly powered by AI, many of the approaches that once provided reassurance are struggling to keep pace. Matt shares why the idea of "good enough" security is becoming increasingly difficult to defend. While endpoint protection remains an important part of any security strategy, he explains why technology alone is no longer enough. Organizations must continually review, update, and strengthen their defenses rather than assuming that yesterday's protections will be sufficient tomorrow. Our conversation explores the lasting impact of ransomware and the lessons businesses continue to learn from high-profile incidents. From major retailers to global manufacturers, attacks are creating operational disruption, financial losses, and reputational damage on a scale that few organizations would have imagined a decade ago. We also discuss one of the industry's most persistent challenges: the cybersecurity skills gap. Finding experienced security professionals remains difficult, while retaining talent has become equally challenging. Matt explains how managed detection and response services are helping MSPs extend their capabilities without having to build and maintain large security operations teams. AI naturally plays a major role in the discussion. While cybersecurity vendors use AI to improve threat detection and response, attackers are also leveraging the technology to accelerate and sophisticate phishing campaigns, social engineering, and other forms of cybercrime. Matt explains why businesses must remain realistic about both opportunities and risks. Another theme throughout the episode is the growing expectation that cybersecurity should be treated as a business issue rather than purely an IT concern. Regulations, cyber insurance requirements, supply chain scrutiny, and customer expectations are all increasing pressure on organizations to demonstrate stronger security practices and greater resilience. We also discuss ESET PRIVATE and why more organizations are seeking security services tailored to their specific operational needs. Rather than relying on a standard package, many businesses are looking for solutions that align with their industry requirements, compliance obligations, risk profile, and long-term objectives. Finally, Matt reflects on the conversations emerging from ESET's recent partner conference and shares his perspective on the topics shaping cybersecurity priorities for the coming year. AI, resilience, compliance, and business education continue to dominate discussions as organizations look for practical ways to strengthen their defenses. If you're an MSP, IT leader, business owner, or anyone responsible for protecting digital operations, this episode offers a timely look at the challenges facing organizations today and the steps many are taking to prepare for what comes next. Is your organization still relying on security strategies designed for yesterday's threats, or have you adapted to today's cyber risks?

Use code EDB at https://jonesroadbeauty.com to get a Free Gift with your first purchase! #JonesRoadBeauty #ad Watch the full coverage of the live stream on The Emily D. Baker YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/OLiagNatxIE  This Case Brief provides a deep dive into the intensifying legal battles surrounding the Karen Read case, featuring an analysis of a contentious civil hearing where the judge expressed extreme frustration over discovery delays and the minimal number of depositions completed to date. Emily also details a major new federal lawsuit filed by Read against the Massachusetts State Police and the Town of Canton, which alleges a deep-seated culture of bigotry and institutional rot, citing horrific and graphic text messages exchanged between former investigators Michael Proctor and Sergeant Sean Goode. The discussion also covers the sudden resignation of Sergeant Goode following an internal misconduct probe and the revelation of Proctor's extensive iCloud data—dating back to 2013—containing racial slurs, misogynistic remarks, and discussions of planting evidence. Ultimately, the speaker reflects on the systemic failures that have hampered a just investigation into the death of John O'Keefe, leaving his family without the clear answers they deserve. RESOURCES Karen Read v. MSP & Canton -- https://emilydbaker.com/readvmsp  Karen Read 2025 Retrial Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsbUyvZas7gL3CbMJHvrKiAD1aDNcblnO  Karen Read 2024 Mistrial Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsbUyvZas7gKUeCUzApgsEuQRXu5IXeTS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The episode examines a structural shift in the MSP business model driven by the introduction of AI-linked consumption-based pricing layered on top of traditional per-seat fees. This emerging mechanism, typified by Microsoft's E7 license, adds variable AI consumption charges to otherwise predictable monthly service costs. Vendors are restructuring partner payment models, with Microsoft's move closely watched by others, signaling a wider potential for volatility in the recurring revenue foundations of MSPs, according to analysis from Jay McBain and recent channel data. The most consequential development is Microsoft's E7 pricing, which explicitly adds an AI consumption cost to the standard per-seat license. This move introduces variability at “machine speed,” in contrast to previous examples such as cloud storage, where consumption remains predominantly human-driven and thus more predictable. Analysts note that similar micro-consumption models—charging per conversation, process, or API call—are being adopted by hundreds of companies. Market data from Omnia and referenced industry research places the global IT spend at $6 trillion in 2026, with two-thirds delivered by channel partners and a rapid shift from fixed, subscription models toward micro-consumption billed at a granular, usage-based level. Supporting evidence includes the lack of sufficient vendor-provided controls for variable consumption, leaving MSPs exposed to unplanned cost spikes. While large enterprises are introducing robust FinOps practices and loading up cloud credits, smaller MSPs serving SMB customers are not prepared with similar governance structures. There is also vendor-led encouragement for AI adoption—such as persistent in-app assistants—that drive up consumption before adequate controls or cost-passing mechanisms are established. The sustainability of current pricing models is further questioned by the fact that providers like OpenAI and Anthropic are themselves subsidizing significant portions of token usage, distorting true costs throughout the value chain. For MSPs and IT service leaders, these developments mean greater exposure to unpredictable costs, potential margin pressures, and increased contractual risk tied to AI consumption. Operators cannot rely on vendors to provide spend caps or consumption governance today; failure to build internal controls or pass-through mechanisms may result in absorbing unpaid liabilities. Accountability for AI-driven actions, remediation, and configuration changes will rest with the MSP, elevating both operational complexity and liability exposure. The current environment requires building governance, audit trails, and spend management capabilities now, ahead of broader market adoption of AI consumption models. Supported by: CometBackup

Discussion centered on the evolving role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in the MSP technology stack, emphasizing the necessity for MSPs to deploy tools that can comprehensively manage AI, particularly concerning security and shadow IT. Multiple participants highlighted the lack of current solutions that aggregate and control AI activity via a single interface, with an explicit focus on the requirement to educate clients about AI privacy, security, and usage costs. The practical challenge of MSPs asserting thought leadership in AI was underscored, as was the complication of usage-based AI billing models leading to unexpected customer expenses. Supporting details were drawn from the recently released Kaseya State of the MSP report, which showed that customer acquisition remains the sector's main challenge, with 71% of surveyed MSPs identifying it as their top concern. The report further found that only a minority of MSPs are executing effective sales and marketing strategies to educate clients. Additionally, 48% of respondents reported AI and automation as top client needs, yet a significant drop was observed in customers spending more than $25,000 a year with MSPs, falling from 75% to 41%. This reduction is attributed to clients undertaking technology initiatives independently, diminishing the perceived value of MSP services. Adjacent discussions addressed common issues around automation and AI adoption. Several practitioners noted a prevailing trend of automating legacy processes rather than leveraging AI for forward-looking transformation. It was emphasized that most AI implementations among peer groups are focused on operational efficiencies for past tasks, such as help desk and marketing automation, with few examples of innovative new service offerings. The dialogue also covered practical, risk-related aspects of managing client relationships, particularly when enforcing security measures such as multi-factor authentication in the face of client resistance. Implications for MSPs and IT leaders include the need to strengthen governance around AI adoption and service stack adjustments, actively communicate the value of AI security and management services, and anticipate client concerns about cost control and privacy. The observed decrease in customer spending points to operational and strategic risks around client engagement and service value. MSPs are advised to ensure that automation efforts align with future requirements, not just past service models, and to enhance accountability in both vendor and client-facing operations.   Title:    Should I Adjust My Stack for AI?  MSP Question of the week:  How should I adjust my stack for AI? Kasaya State of the MSP report is out: Running an MSP is harder than ever is the headline. https://www.kaseya.com/blog/msp-growth-challenges-2026/ Question for you! Amy had a post on LinkedIn last week telling MSPs that they are doing AI wrong. The final question was, are you adopting AI for the future or just automating the last 10 years. Where is your focus?. https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/05/31/most-msps-are-using-ai-wrong/ M&A: When is the best time to sell an MSP? Chapter 2 from Amy's book. https://amzn.to/4dSYOcRAmy and James Events Mastermind Event – July 30-31st, 2026https://portal.kernanconsulting.com/mastermind-event Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Send us Fan MailWhat does it really take to scale a company without losing your people, your culture, or your margins?In this episode of Joey Pinz Conversations, we sit down with a CEO who made the leap from COO to leading one of the top MSP organizations in Canada—sharing real insights on leadership, growth, and what most companies get wrong.From building high-performing teams to navigating tough leadership transitions, this conversation goes beyond theory. It's about real-world execution, accountability, and making decisions that actually work.Jennifer also opens up about her personal transformation, losing over 160 pounds, and how small changes compound into massive results—both in business and life. 

Outcome-based managed security and attached vendor warranties are driving a new form of coverage-based vendor lock-in for MSPs and IT service providers. Vendors such as Intezer and SPECTRA are introducing performance guarantees, SLAs, and cyber resilience warranties that require MSPs to fully standardize on their architectures. This evolving model shifts accountability for enforcement and risk management from the individual MSP to the vendor's operating model, thereby altering the independent role of the MSP within client environments. A notable example is Intezer's Amplify Partner program, which asserts that its platform can process 100% of security alerts while escalating fewer than 2% for human review—claims the company frames as outcomes rather than product specifications. SPECTRA's use of certification-linked warranties, distributed via Ingram Micro, establishes channel-distributable assurance products with explicit conditions attached at every level. According to a Check Point report, while 77% of organizations report having adopted AI for cloud security, only 26% feel capable of enforcing those strategies, revealing a gap between security intent and operational ability. This structural shift is further illustrated by Merlin Cyber's FedRAMP managed service offering, Lumen's MDR enhancements targeting mid-market MSPs, and Trustlogix's addition of intent-based authorization controls. The FBI's announcement regarding Microsoft 365 OAuth token hijacking and recent vulnerabilities in widely used platforms like ConnectWise Automate underscore the real-world risks of automation platforms being targeted. These developments collectively point to growing operational complexity, rising compliance burdens, and the need for MSPs to separate their commitments from upstream vendor claims. For operators, the trend demands increased scrutiny of warranty terms, claim denial conditions, and SLA language before making any client-facing assurances. MSPs risk absorbing liability if they repeat vendor marketing claims without contractual clarity or operational control. Effective governance now requires independently produced, audit-ready evidence that documents compliance and enforcement separate from vendor portals. As assurance sales proliferate, the operational gap between acting as an underwriter versus a reseller will drive market differentiation, affecting both pricing structures and eligibility for vendor-backed coverage. 00:00 Channel-Ready Security 03:41 Policy vs. Reality 05:59 MFA Isn't Enough 09:12 Why Do We Care?    Supported by:  ScalePad Moovila   

A fundamental structural shift underway is the movement of AI from isolated features to operationalized, production-level workloads in MSP tooling and client environments. This transition is not primarily about the capabilities of individual AI models but about their integration into existing operational platforms and workflows. Companies such as PDQ, Senteon, Domotz, and Zoom are incorporating AI agents directly into management layers, endpoint automation, and workflow orchestration, thereby increasing both the scope and complexity of AI impact. The locus of value is shifting from features to workflow control and integration, creating new demands for governance, consumption monitoring, and exit strategies. The most consequential development referenced is the transition in AI billing and operational models from static user or seat licenses to variable, usage-based consumption. He cites TechCrunch's coverage of GitHub Copilot's move to token-based billing and Semafor's reporting of Uber's rapid exhaustion of its 2026 AI budget in four months due to unbounded consumption by generative tools. F5's State of Application Strategy report is referenced to confirm that multi-cloud and parallel model operations are now common, with significant instances of AI-related security incidents already reported. Secondary developments reinforce this structural realignment of risk and accountability. PDQ, for instance, is expanding multi-tenant management and integration capabilities, while Senteon enables endpoint hardening and drift control directly in Rewst's platform. Domotz's MCP server allows AI agents to operate across 40,000 networks globally, and Zoom is packaging AI context protocol features for workflow automation. Each of these changes is designed to increase operational efficiency, but also expand the surface area for unintended consequences, elevated operational complexity, and potential budget overruns. For MSPs and IT leaders, the operational implications center on governance, spend control, and clear accountability over AI-driven tools and workflows. The risk is that without adequate monitoring, policy setting, and contractual clarity—especially around data portability and exit costs—MSPs may face liability for unplanned consumption, misconfigured automation, or governance gaps. The evidence indicates the need to proactively audit AI integrations, set usage thresholds, instrument logging and budgeting controls, and renegotiate vendor contracts to ensure service boundaries and oversight mechanisms are in place before workflows become too deeply embedded. 00:00 MSP Stack Resets  04:09 AI Needs Governance 06:45 Govern AI or Pay 09:22 Why Do We Care?  Supported by:  Nerdio Zero Networks   

What happens when the person building your phone technology has actually spent time on your side of the desk? Jason sits down with Veronika Perkowski, Senior Manager of Corporate Strategy at LightSpeed Voice, to dig into how voice technology is evolving, what Nova Pro brings to agency workflows, and why today's AI voice agents may be doing more harm than good. Key Topics: Veronika's path from media strategy and an AI startup to LightSpeed Voice How LightSpeed Voice builds products by staying close to agents How LightSpeed Voice's in-house infrastructure translates to faster fixes and fewer outages LightSpeed Solutions: the MSP and cybersecurity arm rooted in LightSpeed Voice's origins Nova Pro: more agency control over workflows, data capture, and team measurement Call Queries: up to 20 preset fields that auto-extract from every call transcript Jason's real-world AI voice agent test during the ERIE cyber attack and why it backfired Why outbound AI voice is riskier and voice delineation is still too costly for most agencies Veronika's take: AI dominates calls short-term, but human interaction becomes novel again long-term Why agencies should restructure around four workflow stages instead of relying on AI receptionists Reach out to: Veronika Perkowski, Jason Cass Visit Website: LightSpeed Voice LightSpeed Solutions Agency Intelligence Produced by PodSquad.fm

Julie Thiel of TTS Company explains why MSPs need to treat retention as a business-building discipline, not a last-minute response to resignations “Turnover doesn't start when someone leaves,” says Julie Thiel of TTS Company. “That's just when you get the wake-up call.” In this episode of Technology Reseller News, Doug Green is joined again by Julie Thiel of TTS Company for the latest conversation in an ongoing series designed to help MSPs understand the human resources side of building a stronger business. The discussion focuses on a common issue for growing MSPs: employee turnover. But rather than treating turnover as something that begins when an employee gives notice, Thiel argues that the warning signs often appear much earlier. Retention, she explains, is tied to leadership, employee experience, culture, communication, expectations and whether team members see a future inside the organization. For MSPs, the stakes are especially high. Losing a strong technician, account manager or operations leader can disrupt customer relationships, reduce service quality and put added strain on the rest of the team. Turnover is not only an HR problem. It can become a customer experience problem, a profitability problem and even a business valuation problem. Thiel says MSP owners should think about retention as part of building equity in the company. A stable, engaged team helps create better customer outcomes and a stronger operating model. That means leaders need to pay attention before someone starts looking elsewhere. The conversation also explores the limits of compensation alone. Thiel notes that while another employer can always offer more money, pay is not the only factor that keeps people in place. “Anyone can offer more money,” Thiel says. “I've gone to jobs where I made a lot more money and it was a terrible experience. It was combat pay.” Her point is that MSPs need to make it harder for good employees to leave by building an environment where people feel valued, supported and connected to the mission of the business. More money may get someone's attention, but a healthy workplace can be the deciding factor in whether they stay. TTS Company, originally founded as Thiel Talent Strategy, works with businesses on the people side of growth. Thiel says her goal is to make HR less intimidating for business owners who may know they need help but are unsure where to begin. “I want HR to not seem so scary,” Thiel says. “We're non-scary HR.” Learn more at thettscompany.com.

The structural shift highlighted in this episode is a move from simple AI enablement to a managed service model centered on agent governance, enforcement, and workflow automation within IT environments. The episode identifies unmanaged AI agents as a source of escalating risk, citing vendors like Scalepad shifting from remote monitoring to SaaS and AI usage discovery, and referencing research and audits from SNCC and Verizon that identify tangible security flaws and unapproved AI activity within organizations. Managed service providers are increasingly positioned as the operational layer that defines and enforces governance over automation systems, rather than simply deploying AI tools. The primary evidence for this shift is found in audit findings and market reports. SNCC's audit of 4,000 AI agent skills showed over a third had at least one security flaw, while Verizon's data cited by The Register noted a fourfold increase in employees using unauthorized generative AI, with 28% of data loss prevention violations involving code or proprietary data submitted to AI platforms. Gartner, as reported by The Register, predicts 40% of organizations will demote or remove AI agents due to failed governance efforts—attributing the problem to all-or-nothing approaches that lead to operational and compliance failures. Secondary developments reinforce the move toward operationalized governance. Scalepad and Watchguard are bringing AI and SaaS governance capabilities to the MSP channel, with product releases focused on real-time discovery, policy enforcement, and automation control. Incidents like Anthropic's leak of its full source code for Claude Code, exposing permission and sandboxing details, illustrate how transparency in AI agent operations can also create attack vectors—emphasizing the need for robust operational controls and ongoing auditability. The market is shifting to sell "coherence"—packaging identity, permissions, and workflow automation—rather than just technological capability. Operationally, the consequences for MSPs include increased responsibility for defining and enforcing permission boundaries, approval rules, and evidence collection. Failure to address agent governance will expose providers to operational ambiguity, unpriced liability, and recurring support burdens. The guidance is to move beyond AI enablement projects and toward agent operation retainers that include clear workflows, permission maps, execution logs, and contractual clarity on responsibility and incident management. MSPs that cannot prove and control agent behavior risk inheriting the complexity and fallout from system failures or misuse. 00:00 Shadow AI Surge  05:01 Context Is Infrastructure 07:46 Agent Control Plane 11:16 Why Do We Care?  Supported by:  JumpCloud TimeZest 

The episode reveals a growing governance gap as the central structural shift in the IT services sector, driven by accelerated AI adoption and increasing automation. Companies such as OpenAI, Anthropic, Veeam, and Auvik are reframing their market positions around the operational risks and requirements introduced by AI agents, data automation, and new service delivery models. This evolution is underscored by the rising number of AI agents—projected by IDC to reach 2.3 billion by 2030—operating largely outside of current oversight and frequently with excessive or inappropriate permissions. The principal development discussed is Veeam's announcement of its Data AI Command Platform. According to Dave Sobel and Rich Freeman, this platform is intended to address data-centric failures beyond traditional ransomware or accidental deletion. Veeam's platform is designed to handle issues such as AI-generated data hallucinations, inappropriate data exposure, and policy enforcement failures. The platform's architecture builds on the acquisition of Security AI, combining data security posture management with backup, compliance, and governance capabilities, although, as of now, key remediation features are only available for Microsoft 365, with further expansion expected over the coming months. Supporting developments include Auvik's expansion of automated network management based on a large historical dataset and the simultaneous entrance of OpenAI and Anthropic into direct services for mid-market clients, backed by billions in private capital from entities such as Goldman Sachs and Blackstone. Both companies now embed applied AI engineers at client sites, bypassing traditional channel partners. Channel operator feedback, reflected in research by Techisle and discussions at vendor conferences, indicates a lack of MSP readiness and a slow response to developing governance and compliance services, despite evidence from end-user data pointing to significant unmet demand and risk exposure. Operationally, MSPs face a growing liability trap where the speed and delegation of decisions to AI systems increase the potential for unnoticed errors or breaches. There is a disconnect between customer demand for governance, compliance, and data controls, and the preparedness of MSPs to deliver those services. This exposes providers to heightened contractual, operational, and reputational risk, particularly as vendors and large AI companies move directly into the mid-market service delivery space. Practical safeguards, clear accountability frameworks, and objective benchmarks for automation and governance effectiveness will be required to mitigate exposure and support safe, durable service offerings. Supported by: CometBackup HaloPSA Moovila 

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Send us Fan MailWhat does it take to scale in today's fast-changing MSP and cybersecurity landscape? In this episode, Joey Pinz sits down with a global tech leader to explore how MSPs can adapt, grow, and lead in an era defined by AI, cyber threats, and increasing competition.From real-world ransomware scenarios to the evolving role of AI tools like Copilot, this conversation highlights how technology is reshaping decision-making, customer relationships, and operational strategy. The discussion also dives into why traditional high-volume sales tactics are losing effectiveness—and how peer-to-peer engagement and in-person experiences are becoming the new competitive advantage.Beyond business, this episode brings a personal edge—covering routines, health challenges, and the importance of balance while managing global teams and family life.