Podcasts about optoro

Casey Chroust, Chief Operating Officer at Optoro, joins Mariah Parsons to discuss the evolution of returns management in retail. He highlighted that returns are a $750 billion problem in the US, emphasizing the need for technology to streamline the process. Chroust noted that high returners often are the best shoppers and advocated for personalized returns policies. He introduced trends like wardrobing and bracketing, where shoppers buy multiple sizes or items with the intention to return. Chroust also stressed the importance of instant exchanges and frictionless returns to enhance customer experience and drive sales. He concluded by underscoring the environmental benefits of efficient returns management. Optoro 2024 Returns Unwrapped Report: https://4771362.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/4771362/Optoros%202024%20Returns%20Unwrapped%20Report.pdf Podcast Website: RetentionChroniclesPodcast.com Malomo Website: GoMalomo.com Episode Timestamps: 2:23 Transition from Brand Side to Tech Side 6:27 Challenges and Rewards of Tech in Retail 9:00 Overview of Optoro and Its Mission 13:00 Trends and Insights in the Returns Industry 31:47 Innovations in Returns Management 33:09 Data and Visibility in Returns Management 39:53 Sustainability and Environmental Impact of Returns 46:40 Strategies for Healthy vs. Unhealthy Shoppers

On today's podcast, Amena Ali, CEO of Optoro, discusses the challenges of retail returns management, emphasizing the need for a seamless customer experience. She highlights how returns are a critical touchpoint that can make or break customer loyalty. Ali outlines strategies such as leveraging technology to streamline processes, using data analytics to predict return patterns, and improving sustainability by minimizing waste. These approaches help retailers reduce costs while delivering a hassle-free return experience, fostering customer satisfaction and brand loyalty. About our guest, Amena Ali: Amena Ali has an exceptional track record with more than 25 years experience in delivering value for customers, spearheading software innovation, and growing SaaS and software businesses. As CEO of Optoro, the leading software platform for retail returns, Amena is leading the company to record growth, overseeing new product launches and partnerships, and major customer wins. Optoro's Returns Management System, used by retail's most iconic brands, such as GAP, American Eagle and Best Buy, recently surpassed 200M returns. The company's software platform makes retail returns simple and efficient, reducing waste and enabling circularity. In 2023, Amena was named to the Forbes 50 Over 50 Innovation list, and recognized as one of DC's Tech Titans. This year, she was named a Washington Business Journal Diversity in Business Award honoree. Amena previously served as CEO of Airside Mobile and VividCortex. Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amenaali/ Website: https://www.optoro.com/ About Retail Corner Podcast: Host: Cole Koumalats Producer: Sachin Kumar Bhate Podcast Sponsor: Proxima360 Listen to other podcasts at: https://proxima360.com/retail-corner.podcast or https://retailcorner.live Subscribe our Podcast: Apple iTunes: https://apple.co/3eoeUdT Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3dvjpDJ Google Podcast: https://bit.ly/3DFHXHw Amazon Music: https://amzn.to/3tkbhk1 Interested in being on our podcast? Submit request at: retailcorner@proxima360.com

ABOUT THE GUESTAmena Ali is the CEO of Optoro, a leader in reverse logistics technology. With a career that spans over 25 years, she has held pivotal roles in companies like MCI, Bain & Company, and several software firms. At Optoro, Amena leads the charge in tackling the multi-billion-dollar returns problem, working with major retailers such as Gap and Best Buy. Her expertise in product marketing, finance, and business development makes her a thought leader in logistics innovation, helping retailers and brands optimize their return management systems for better customer experiences and sustainability.HIGHLIGHTS[00:01:30] – Growing returns problem and its environmental impact.[00:02:30] – The surge in return rates since the pandemic and the need for retailers to adapt.[00:04:00] – Amena's career journey.[00:08:47] – Returns Management System (RMS).[00:14:58] – The "art and science of dispositioning".[00:27:30] – The role of AI, robotics, and data science in reducing return processing costs.[00:36:30] – Addressing fraud and authenticity with data capture and blockchain technology.QUOTES:[00:01:31] – "The trends are pretty stark since the pandemic. Returns are up 3.5x, with rates as high as 30% for some goods. It's a monumental problem that's not going away." – Amena Ali[00:02:30] – "We need to come up with a win-win-win solution: a win for shoppers, retailers, and the environment." – Amena Ali[00:06:09] – "Work-life balance isn't the goal anymore; it's about finding a sustainable work-life integration." – Amena Ali[00:14:58] – "Returns are two to three times more labor-intensive than forward logistics. The longer it takes to process, the more you lose in recovery." – Amena Ali[00:36:37] – "You need data to spot who's a trustworthy shopper and who isn't." – Amena Ali FIND MORE ABOUT THE GUEST:Website: OptoroLinkedIn: Amena AliWhite Paper: WMS vs RMS: A Guide to Return Management

ABOUT THE GUESTSAmena Ali, CEO of Optoro, has 15+ years of experience in returns and reverse logistics. Optoro provides a complete returns management platform, helping major brands manage returns more efficiently, focusing on sustainability and circularity.Jonathan Poma, Co-founder and CEO of Loop, leads a platform that handles return management for Shopify merchants, processing millions of returns every month and routing products back into resale channels.Gayle Tate, Former CEO of Trove, drives innovation in the resale space by enabling brands to power trade-in and resale programs, helping them recapture value from returned items and reduce environmental impact.Kyle Bertin, Co-founder and CEO of Two Boxes, focuses on improving return processing in warehouses through advanced, agnostic technology, optimizing efficiency and sustainability for brands across North America.Julian Mitchell, Co-founder and CIO of G2 Reverse Logistics, brings a deep focus on using data analytics and AI to help brands optimize returns processes, reduce costs, and re-commerce products.HIGHLIGHTS[00:06:00] Gayle Tate highlights the revenue potential of resale programs.[00:12:00] Ninaad Acharya expands on the multi-layered nature of reverse logistics.[00:24:00] Gayle Tate discusses the importance of data-driven decision-making.[00:32:00] Jonathan Poma discusses the growing challenge of returns fraud in ecommerce.[00:41:00] Julian Mitchell points out the hidden costs of “free” returns for retailers.QUOTES:[00:07:00] – "Recommerce captures new customers by reselling returned items at a lower price, adding value for brands." – Gayle Tate[00:25:00] – "We need a flexible platform that integrates across WMS, TMS, and other logistics systems to truly optimize reverse logistics." – Amena Ali[00:32:00] – "Returns fraud and returns abuse is like a hundred-billion-dollar problem in the US." – Jonathan Poma[00:33:00] – "Automation creates new fraud vectors, but we can use AI and data analytics to predict and prevent these frauds." – Jonathan Poma[00:40:00] – "There are bad actors not just on the consumer side, but within warehouses, and brands need more data to detect and prevent fraud at every level." – Kyle BertinFind More About the Guest Panelists:Amena AliLinkedIn: Amena AliWebsite: Optoro.comJonathan PomaLinkedIn: Jonathan PomaWebsite: LoopReturns.comGayle TateLinkedIn: Gayle TateWebsite: Trove.comKyle BertinLinkedIn: Kyle BertinWebsite: TwoBoxes.comJulian MitchellLinkedIn: Julian MitchellWebsite: G2RL.com

Send us a Text Message.This episode will change the way you think about brand reputation in modern marketing.  Estimates are that 90% of buyer activity is happening before buyers even talk to a sales person.  What do marketers need to do to win in the modern buyer journey?In this episode, Eric interviews Larisa Summers, a seasoned Chief Marketing Officer with over 20 years of experience in various industries, mainly focusing on technology and SaaS businesses. Larissa shares insights into her journey, highlighting the importance of storytelling and human connection in marketing. She recounts a notable marketing campaign during her time at Optoro, where handling product returns was turned into an opportunity for viral marketing through the creation of unboxing videos. This initiative not only promoted the brand but also inspired a wave of entrepreneurs. The conversation then shifts towards future marketing trends, emphasizing the potential of AI while cautioning against its overuse, which can lead to a lack of authenticity. Larissa advises on the importance of creating genuine, human-centric content to stand out. The episode concludes with a discussion on the crucial role of a company's online reputation and the changing dynamics of buyer research and decision-making.01:19 A Marketing Success Story: Turning Returns into Revenue06:07 Exploring Marketing Trends for 202408:00 The Importance of Authenticity and Reputation in Marketing14:37 Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

Americans are doing a lot more of their shopping online, and thanks to generous return policies we're also sending back more of the stuff that doesn't fit, doesn't work or just doesn't look like its JPG. Many of us even regularly buy clothes in multiple sizes and colors and simply send back anything that we don't like the look of. But very little of what we return, from bathing suits to defective barbeque grills, is repaired or resold as new. Returned inventory created 9.5 billion pounds of landfill waste last year, according to one estimate. And the shipping of returned inventory in the US, to retailers, resellers and repairers, emitted over 24 million metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2022. We'll talk about the logistics of the reverse supply chain and the environmental consequences of all the stuff we buy and don't want. Guests: Amanda Mull, staff writer, The Atlantic. She writes the column “Material World” on American consumerism Tobin Moore, co-founder and principal, Optoro, a returns technology company

⭐ My guest today is Lila Preston, Head of Generation Growth Equity. Generation Growth Equity is a part of the larger Generation Investment Management, an investment management firm founded in 2004 by former US Vice President Al Gore and Goldman Sachs' Asset Management head David Blood, with a focus on sustainable investment options. They now manage about $40B. Generation Growth Equity invests globally in growth-stage, private companies with proven technology and commercial traction, run by talented, mission-driven management teams. They take active minority positions in companies that are driving broad-based, system-positive change. They're now investing out of their fourth fund, a $1.7B vehicle. Lila joined Generation in 2004. Previously, she was a director of finance and development at VolunteerMatch in San Francisco and was also a Fulbright Fellow in Southern Chile. She received a BA in English and Latin American Studies from Stanford University and an MBA from London Business School. She serves on the board of Nature's Fynd and as a board observer for CiBO Technologies, Optoro, and Pivot Bio. She is also on the Board of Advisors at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health and is a Young Global Leader of the World Economic Forum. ---

Americans are doing a lot more of their shopping online, and thanks to generous return policies we're also sending back more of the stuff that doesn't fit, doesn't work or just doesn't look like its JPG. Many of us even regularly buy clothes in multiple sizes and colors and simply send back anything that we don't like the look of. But very little of what we return, from bathing suits to defective barbeque grills, is repaired or resold as new. Returned inventory created 9.5 billion pounds of landfill waste last year, according to one estimate. And the shipping of returned inventory in the US, to retailers, resellers and repairers, emitted over 24 million metric tons of carbon dioxide in 2022. We'll talk about the logistics of the reverse supply chain and the environmental consequences of all the stuff we buy and don't want. Guests: Amanda Mull, staff writer, The Atlantic - who writes the column “Material World” on American consumerism Tobin Moore, co-founder and principal, Optoro - a returns technology company

In this engaging episode of Talk Commerce, Brent Peterson sits down with Amena Ali, CEO of Optoro, a company specializing in optimizing returns and reverse logistics for businesses. They delve deep into the world of e-commerce returns, discussing how an effective returns management process can greatly enhance customer experience and loyalty. Amena shares insights on how retailers can manage returns to improve their bottom line, using AI to evaluate fraud risks and facilitate instant exchanges. She sheds light on the importance for businesses to adopt a customer-centric returns policy similar to Amazon's and the role of technology in making this happen. From discussing the importance of efficient inventory restocking to the increasingly critical role of reverse logistics, Amena provides merchants with valuable advice on enhancing their e-commerce strategy. This episode is an eye-opener for retailers seeking to upgrade their returns management system, raise customer satisfaction and ultimately, increase sales. Whether you're a small-scale e-commerce business owner or an enterprise-level retailer, this candid conversation with Amena Ali offers valuable insights into transforming returns from a problem into an opportunity.

Welcome to a special Shoptalk 2023 Bonus episode of the Remarkable Retail podcast, presented by MarketDial, recorded live beachside in the Wizeline podcasting studio at Mandalay Bay Beach, Las Vegas.In this episode, we meet with Amena Ali, Chief Executive Officer at Optoro. Optoro is a leading provider of returns technology for retail brands, using data science and real-time decision-making automation to make returns better for customers, retailers, and the planet. We wanted to explore their innovations in and around product returns. Amena is new to the business and the retail industry, so with a fresh perspective, Steve and I were curious about what Amena and Optoro were up to.  About AmenaAmena Ali is a proven leader with more than 20 years experience in delivering value for customers and successfully growing software businesses.Amena has an exceptional track record of scaling high-growth technology businesses in SaaS and enterprise software, including at her two recent CEO roles. She has led successful revenue generation at startups, middle market, and public companies.Amena most recently served as CEO of Airside Mobile, a leader in digital identity verification technology. Previously, Ali was CEO of database monitoring company VividCortex, where she led the company to grow ARR by 80% in 17 months. She has held several senior leadership positions, including at Earth Networks, Softek Storage Solutions (acquired by IBM) and Legato Systems (acquired by EMC). She serves on the board of database DevOps company Liquibase. Amena started her career as a management consultant at Bain & Company. She holds an MBA from the Yale School of Management and a Bachelor's Degree from Wesleyan University.Outside of work, Amena enjoys traveling, her family, yoga, and “a good walk spoiled”, aka chasing a small white ball with a long stick on rolling greens.About UsSteve Dennis is an advisor, keynote speaker and author on strategic growth and business innovation. You can learn more about Steve on his       website.    The expanded and revised edition of his bestselling book  Remarkable Retail: How To Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption is now available at  Amazon or just about anywhere else books are sold. Steve regularly shares his insights in his role as a      Forbes senior contributor and on       Twitter and       LinkedIn. You can also check out his speaker "sizzle" reel      here.Michael LeBlanc  is the Founder & President of M.E. LeBlanc & Company Inc and a Senior Advisor to Retail Council of Canada as part of his advisory and consulting practice.   He brings 25+ years of brand/retail/marketing & eCommerce leadership experience, and has been on the front lines of retail industry change for his entire career.  Michael is the producer and host of a network of leading podcasts including Canada's top retail industry podcast,       The Voice of Retail, plus  Global eCommerce Leaders podcast, and The Food Professor  with Dr. Sylvain Charlebois.    You can learn more about Michael   here  or on     LinkedIn. Be sure and check out Michael's latest venture for fun and influencer riches - Last Request Barbecue,  his YouTube BBQ cooking channel! 

In this episode of the Sustainable Minds podcast, Meagan Knowlton, Director of Sustainability at Optoro, joins Gary Baker and Roxanne "Rocket" White to discuss a sustainability strategy that focuses on driving the circular economy in the retail industry. Meagan is a sustainability professional who currently drives the circular economy in the retail industry and leads cross-functional teams to develop and operationalize strategic sustainability programs. Some of her previous roles at Optoro include being part of the Leader, Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion Committee, where she co-developed Optoro's first DEI strategy and goals, and as Optoro's Sustainability Manager. Before Optoro, Meagan worked at Swire Coca-Cola as a Corporate Sustainability Manager and as a Communications Consultant at Duke University Nicholas School of the Environment.

In this episode, Kaitlyn Allen talks with Meagan Knowlton, Director of Sustainability at Optoro, a returns technology company based in Washington, DC. Meagan leads initiatives that enable retailers and brands to build circular business models and reduce waste and emissions in the reverse supply chain. Prior to Optoro, she managed sustainability programs in the Coca-Cola bottling system, focusing on water, energy, and waste in manufacturing and logistics. Meagan holds a Master of Environmental Management from Duke University and a B.S. in Environmental Science from Tulane University. What is a Reverse Supply Chain, you may ask? In the context of this episode, listen as Kaitlyn and Meagan discuss merchandise returns in the retail industry. As consumers, we are often concerned with returns from the perspective of a company's policy and the number of days we have to return a purchase. Many of us do not consider the environmental concern our returns are causing, to the tune of 760 billion dollars' worth of returns in the US in 2021. Retailers are still learning the most effective ways to process returns without stretching the limits of human capital and in the hopes of disrupting the new merchandise to landfill pipeline. Learn measures that companies are taking to process returns with sustainability in mind and discover how consumers can play a significant role in the solutions. The data and information shared in this episode may cause you to take a hard look at your purchasing and gift-giving habits to better align them with your ESG perspectives. Resource Boosts include: Optoro www.optoro.com MendIt www.mendit.app Bulq – www.bulq.com Subscribe to ESG Decoded, where you consume your podcasts and connect via social media to share your feedback and topic suggestions. Enjoy this episode!

In this episode, Max speaks with Meagan Knowlton of Optoro, a tech company whose mission is to make retail more sustainable by eliminating all waste from returns. Tune in as Meagan shares insight on how retailers can improve outcomes across all points of the returns lifecycle.https://www.optoro.com/This episode was produced and mixed by Daniel Reza.

https://www.optoro.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/meagan-knowlton-600a8977/Did you know we produced 9.6 billion pounds of waste from returns in 2021? The return rate rose from about 10% to 16.6% in one year! Are you ready to return an item without having to pack it up yourself? https://www.landsberg.com/https://ororapackagingsolutions.com/Looking to improve the sustainability of your packaging today? Check out: https://www.landsberg.com/The views and opinions expressed on the "Sustainable Packaging with Cory Connors" podcast are solely those of the author and guests and should not be attributed to any other individual or entity. https://specright.com/ This podcast is an independent production and the podcast production is an original work of the author. All rights of ownership and reproduction are retained—copyright 2022. https://www.amazon.com/dp/1329820053/ref=as_sl_pc_qf_sp_asin_til?tag=corygat

Listen as Meagan Knowlton, Director of Sustainability at Optoro, shares her smart insights on leveraging AI to fuel reuse, building sustainable systems to help brands make smart decisions, why finding an item's next best home is critical, and more. #NothingWastedPodcast Like this episode? Make sure to leave it a ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ review and hit subscribe, so you never miss when a new episode drops!

There’s a term one hears to describe the venture capital market in 2021—frothy. What does that actually mean and what does it mean in the larger historical context of Venture Capital? We speak with Phil Boyer, a partner at Crosslink Capital since 2014. Crosslink was founded in Silicon Valley in 1989 and has institutional memories of the beginning and end of Dot-Com bubble 20+ years ago and the global financial crisis in 2008. How does the firm’s deep history inform what is happening today, what is the outlook for the future, and how can founders pitch their companies to funds like Crosslink.About Phil Boyer:Phil brings over a decade of experience as a technology investor with deep sector expertise within enterprise and vertical software (AI, cloud, developer tools, SaaS, security). He is passionate about serving as a partner with early-stage founding teams, with an eye towards helping strong technical teams build category-defining companies. At Crosslink, Phil’s investments include Armory, BetterUp, Iron Ox, Molekule, Overjet, Verodin (FEYE), and Weave (IPO NYSE: WEAV), among other companies.Prior to Crosslink, Phil was an investor with NYC-based venture capital firm Tenfore Holdings, with early investments in Optoro and Trulioo during his tenure. Before beginning his venture capital career, Phil wrote and published research on the technology sector at Credit Suisse and RBC, where he covered companies such as Google, Amazon, LinkedIn, eBay, Priceline, Yelp, and many others.A word from our sponsor:Ripple Ventures is always focused on helping our founders and CEOs find the best partners to work with. But before we introduce any provider to our companies, we always make sure we try the product first. And when it comes to managing business expenses at Ripple, we were super excited when the team at Jeeves came knocking on our door.Jeeves helped get me and my team setup with physical and virtual credit cards in days. I was able to allow my teammates to expense items in multiple currencies allowing them to pay for anything, anywhere at any time. We weren’t asked for any personal guarantees or pay any setup or annual fees either. Not only does Jeeves save us time, but they also give us up to 3% cashback on our purchases including expenses like Google, Facebook or AWS every month. The best part,  Jeeves puts up the cash, and you settle up once every 30 days, unlike some other corporate card companies that make you pre-pay every month. Jeeves offers a truly all-in-one expense management corporate card program for international startups and we at Tank Talks could not be more excited to partner with them. Listeners of Tank Talks can get set up with a demo of Jeeves today and take advantage of a $700 discount and skip the waitlist  by visiting tryjeeves.com/tanktalks to learn more.In this episode we discuss:02:49 The evolution of metrics founders need for later round financing07:34 Why Team is so important to investors at the series A round12:17 How growth velocity can be just as important as size of ARR16:27 What is Net Dollar Retention and why is it important to investors22:49 How to properly calculate CAC/LTV25:03 Deal velocity and speed to close as a metric28:17 Is it better to land and expand deals or to hunt for bigger deals from an investor perspective32:06 Conviction in your model is important and knowing what you want to build33:49 How the speed of venture rounds is affecting the market and larger considerations for founders36:46 How Crosslink is dealing with the market39:55 The Crosslink Alpha network and how it brings value to its foundersFast FavoritesAcquiredHow I Built ThisNewsletterWhat’s Hot in Enterprise IT by Ed SimTech GadgetAirpodsTrendxOpsBookThe Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben HorowitzLife LessonThe only thing that stays constant is change.Follow Matt Cohen and Tank Talks here!Podcast production support provided by Agentbee.Agency This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit tanktalks.substack.com

Jess Szmajda current GM of VP at AWS is the former CTO of Axios Media and Co-Founder of Optoro.  She shares how going through major life changes can shift our perception and has taught her that we can do hard things  Follow Phillip on LinkedIn Follow On Instagram Sign Up for our Leadership Letter

Key takeaways: Focusing on solving the right problem, not the most difficult Define the “north” star Seeing the most impactful project Positioning the need to deal with the “plumbing” before you seeing the reporting Meet: Mike Ganz is a leader in the data space, currently serving as Senior Director of Data & Analytics at Optoro. There he focuses his time on differentiating Optoro's products through data and ensuring that the most difficult returns problems retailers and the environment face today are met with dynamic and robust data solutions. Prior to joining Optoro, Mike worked as an Engagement Manager at Applied Predictive Technologies, which was later acquired by Mastercard. In that role he helped Fortune 500 companies across a variety of industries design, implement, and measure the impact of business experiments. Mike holds a BSE in Systems Science & Engineering from the University of Pennsylvania. If you have any questions for Mike, please feel free to reach out via: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-ganz-23989955/ I hope you enjoyed the episode, the best place to connect with me is on Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/amirbormand (Amir Bormand). Please send me a message if you would like me to cover certain topics with future guests.

01:22 - Jess’s Superpower: Playing ANY Instrument * Music & Technology * Cultural Expoloration 06:03 - Language Community Ethos (MINASWAN (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/MINASWAN)) * Human-Centered Design * The Joy of Programming Meetup (https://www.meetup.com/Joy-of-Programming-DC/) * Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/psychology/sapir-whorf-hypothesis) 13:24 - Inclusive Language: Language Matters * Valheim (https://store.steampowered.com/app/892970/Valheim/) 17:19 - Active Listening and Expressing Point-of-View, and Using Loudness * Vocally For * Vocally Against * Quiet For * Quiet Against 21:51 - Shining Light on Marginalized People & Voices * BULQ (https://www.bulq.com/about-us/) * Metacognition: Asking ourselves, “What are we not thinking about?” * Leadership * Changing Mental Patterns; Take a Different Path 31:30 - Benefits of Having Diverse Teams (Resources) & Risks of Homogeneity * Diversity wins: How inclusion matters (https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/diversity-wins-how-inclusion-matters) * Why diversity matters (https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/organization/our-insights/why-diversity-matters) * The Chevy Nova That Wouldn't Go (https://www.thoughtco.com/chevy-nova-that-wouldnt-go-3078090) * Google Photos labeled black people 'gorillas' (https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/07/01/google-apologizes-after-photos-identify-black-people-as-gorillas/29567465/) * From transparent staircases to faraway restrooms, why these benign design details can be a nuisance for some women (https://archinect.com/news/article/150073631/from-transparent-staircases-to-faraway-restrooms-why-these-benign-design-details-can-be-a-nuisance-for-some-women) 37:29 - Storytelling * Representation Matters * Normalization Reflections: Jess: We are feeling beings that rationalize. Damien: How technology impacts culture. Casey: Taking loudness for diversity, equity, and inclusion with people who don’t always talk about it. Who is more open to it or not? This episode was brought to you by @therubyrep (https://twitter.com/therubyrep) of DevReps, LLC (http://www.devreps.com/). To pledge your support and to join our awesome Slack community, visit patreon.com/greaterthancode (https://www.patreon.com/greaterthancode) To make a one-time donation so that we can continue to bring you more content and transcripts like this, please do so at paypal.me/devreps (https://www.paypal.me/devreps). You will also get an invitation to our Slack community this way as well. **Transcript:: DAMIEN: Welcome to Episode 233 of Greater Than Code. I’m Damien Burke and I’m joined here with Casey Watts. CASEY: Hi, I’m Casey! And I’m here with our guest today, Jess Szmajda. Jess is currently a senior leader at AWS in the EC2 Networking organization. Previously, she was the first female CTO of a major media organization, Axios, and before that, the co-founder and CTO at Optoro, which helps top tier retailers nationwide handle their returned and excess goods. Jess got her start in tech in the 90s writing Perl to configure Solaris machines. Over the years, she’s contributed to Open Source and organized a number of communities. These days, focusing on the DC Tech Slack and the DC-based Joy of Programming Meetup. Outside of the tech world, Jess is a singer-songwriter, an improviser, a gamer, a proud member of the LGBTQ+ community, and a Mom to the most wonderful, Minecraft-obsessed 6-year-old imaginable. Welcome Jess. DAMIEN: Welcome to Greater Than Code, Jess. JESS: Thank you! It's nice to be here. DAMIEN: So I know someone has prepped you with our first question. What is your superpower and how did you acquire it? JESS: My superpower is that I can play any instrument you hand me and I – DAMIEN: Oh. JESS: [laughs] I acquired it by being a giant nerd. [laughs] I went to a special music high school here in the DC area called Suitland High School and I played all kinds of different instruments. I was the principal bassoonist of the DC Youth Orchestra for a while. Music's always been a lifelong love of mine and it's been a mission to find every strange instrument I can find to figure out how it works. So it's challenge [chuckles] to find something that I can't play. [laughs] DAMIEN: Oh, I'm so tempted and of course, the first thing I would have gone with is the double reed bassoon and oboe, but that's too easy. JESS: That’s right. DAMIEN: Banjo, of course, you’ve got steel drum. JESS: Steel drum and plate, yeah. DAMIEN: Cajon. JESS: Cajon. Oh, I have heard of it. DAMIEN: Aha! JESS: I haven't actually touched one. I'll figure it out. [laughs] DAMIEN: It's particularly easy. JESS: Nice. [laughs] CASEY: I don't know very many people who play more than just an instrument, or two. I think it might be like you and I are the two that come to mind for me, honestly. [laughter] I have an instrument in every color, by the way. That's the way I collect them. [laughter] JESS: Nice. CASEY: I’ve got a white accordion. How do you feel like this breadth of instrument ability has affected your life in other ways? JESS: I don't know. That's an interesting question. How has it affected my life in other ways? I mean, there's the obvious tie into music and technology. There's such an incredible confluence of musicians who are engineers and vice versa. I was actually talking to someone at the office earlier about that and she was theorizing it's because all of the patterns and rhythms that we think about and how that ties into a regular patterns and systems that we think about as engineers and I think it's a really interesting way to think about it, for sure. I do think that there's a certain element of cross-culturalism that you get from learning other cultures instruments. Certainly, the berimbau, the Brazilian martial art? [laughs] DAMIEN: Capoeira? JESS: Capoeira, yeah. The capoeira, the berimbau instrument that has the long string and you have the little – I think you learn a lot about what led to developing an instrument so relatively simple, but creating such an incredible art form in the culture where people just wanted to dance and share their heritage with each other and picked up whatever they could find that would make interesting and fun sounds and created an entire culture around that. So for me, it's as much cultural exploration and understanding as it is anything. I think it's wonderful. DAMIEN: Yeah. That's really amazing. I had a tiny insight on this recently. I saw an amazing video about a Jimmy Hendrix song with the basic premise being, what key is this song in? It's a really difficult question because—and I'm going to go a little bit music nerd here—the tonic is e, but the chord progressions and the melodic signature doesn't really fit that. Amazing 20-minute video, but the end conclusion is that using Western art music tonality to describe blues music, American blues music, it's a different tonality. So it doesn't really make sense to say what major key is this in, or what minor key is this in. JESS: Yeah, totally. My partner and I, this morning, we were watching a video about Coltrane's classic—my favorite thing is interpretation in the 60s—and how he's basically playing between these major and minor tonalities constantly. It's not necessarily tonal from the Western sense, but it’s certainly beautiful and I think it's certainly approachable and understandable to any ear regardless of how you decompose it. Anyway, giant music nerd, sorry. [laughs] DAMIEN: Yeah, but it ties so closely to what you were talking about as an instrument being cultural. The guitar, the five-string guitar, is tuned for American music, which is a slightly different tonality from Western European music. So when you think about “Okay, well, that's very slightly different. Now, what is it like in Africa, in Australia, in Asia?” Then it gets all, it's got to be very, very different. JESS: Oh, yeah. I saw this guy in Turkey, he's modified a guitar to add quarter tones to it because a lot of Turkish music uses quarter tones and so, it's just like the fretboard is wild. It has all of these extra frets on it and he plays it. It's absolutely incredible, but it's wild. It's amazing. DAMIEN: So I want to tie this into different cultures, frameworks, and technology. How about that? JESS: Yeah, you bet, let's do it. [laughs] CASEY: Good segue. JESS: So actually, that's something that's been on my mind is this Ruby community diaspora in a way. I know Greater Than Code has a lot of Ruby folks on it and I'm not sure about the latest incarnation, but definitely a lot of Ruby roots. I think that we've seen this incredible mixing of culture in the Ruby community that I haven't seen in other places that drives this – well, I think [inaudible], it's a really fantastic way to sum it up like, math is nice and so we are nice. As much as that might be a justification to be nice, be nice anyway, but it's still this ethos of we are nice to each other, we care, and that is baked into the community and my journeys and other language communities, I think haven't shared that perspective that it is good to be nice in general and some of them even are, I think are focused on it's good to fight. [laughs] So I've been really curious about this movement, Rubius’s movement into other language areas, like Go, Rust, and Alexa, et cetera, et cetera, how much of that carries forward and what really can we do to drive that? DAMIEN: Yeah. So my question is how does a technological community, what is it about the community? What is about the technology? Why is it different? You and I both wrote Pearl in the 90s and so, that is a very different community. I look at Ruby and I write mostly Ruby now and I go, “Why is it different? What's different about it?” JESS: Yeah, no, it's a good question. A lot of the early conversation that I remember in the Ruby community was—and just contextually, I've been using Ruby since 2006, or so, so that era. A lot of the early conversation I remember was about develop the language to optimize for developer happiness. I think that's a really unique take and I haven't heard of that in any other place. So I'm wondering how much that might've been the beginnings of this. I don't know. DAMIEN: Something came up in a Twitter conversation, I saw a while back where they compared Ruby and Pearl, I'm pretty sure it was Pearl and well, one of the defining features of Pearl was that there's more than one way to do it and Ruby has that same ethos. Literally, in the standard lib, there’s a lot of aliases and synonyms. It's like, you can call pop, or drop and I can't keep it straight. [chuckles] But anyway, then I thought to myself, “Well, in Pearl, that's an absolute disaster.” I pull up a profile and I'm like, “I don't know what this is because I don't know what's going on.” Whereas, in Ruby, I've loved it so much and so, what's the difference and the difference pointed out to me was that in Ruby, it was for expressiveness. Things have different names so that they can properly express, or better express the intention and in Pearl, that wasn't the case. JESS: Yeah, no, totally. I think actually looking at Ruby and Python, I think were both heavily influenced by Pearl and I think Python definitely took the path of well, all of this nonsense is just nonsense. Let's just have one way to do it. [laughs] Having worked with some Python developers, I think that perspective on there is one correct path really drives that community in a lot of ways. I think some people find that releasing really simplifying for them because they're like, “I got it. I know the answer.” Like it's a math problem almost. As a Rubyist going into the Python community, I was like, “Oh, I'm so stifled.” [laughs] Where is my expressiveness?! I want to write inject, or oh, I can't even think of the opposite of inject. Collect. [laughs] Those are two different words for me. I want to be able to write both, depending on what I'm doing so. It's also interesting, like I see a lot more DSL development in Ruby than I see in any other language and maybe Alexa also. But I think that also comes from the same perspective of there is not one right way to do it. There's the best way for this problem and there's the best way for this kind of communication you're trying to drive. It's interesting, as I'm talking myself into a corner here a bit, Ruby almost emphasizes the communication of code more than the solving of the problem and I think that might actually help drive this community where we care about the other humans we're working with, because we're always thinking about how we communicate with them in a way. CASEY: I think about the term human-centered design a lot lately and that's becoming more and more popular term, a way to describe this thing. Ruby totally did that. Ruby looked at how can we make this easy for humans to use and work with and I think that's beautiful. I keep thinking about a paper I read a long time ago that a professor made-up programming language and varied features of it like, white space matters, or not, and a whole bunch of those and measured which ones were easier for new people to learn and which ones were harder for new people to learn. As a teacher, I want to use whatever is easy for the students to learn so they can get their feet wet, so they can start learning and building and doing things and get excited about it, not get hung up on the syntax. So human-centered design baked into Ruby is, I think partly why the community is so human-centered. I think you're exactly right. JESS: Yeah. That's really interesting. That's a large part of why the Joy of Programming Meetup, I think has been really fun is we get to learn from how different language communities build things. I think it was founded on that kind of thinking is the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis for better, or worse theorizes language shapes thought and I think that that is to some degree, at least true in how we think about writing code and solving problems. So the kinds of solutions that you see from different language communities, I think very incredibly. I don't know, even just as simple as from like J2EE, which is the ivory tower of purity in XML [laughs] to obviously, I don't want to pick on Rails, but Rails is an open system. [laughs] An interpretive dance, perhaps. I think it's really interesting, the web frameworks even I see in Haskell almost feel like I'm solving a math problem more than I'm creating an API, or delivering content into somebody. So it's hard for me to separate, is this a community of thought of people who are attracted to a certain way of solving problems? Is this driven by the structure and format of the language? I don't know. DAMIEN: I know you mentioned the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis and their research has been shown to be problematic. JESS: Yeah, for sure. DAMIEN: [laughs] But I will say that the hypothesis is that language shapes thought and I would say that the correct state – correct [chuckles] a better description for me is that language is thoughts and so, the language you use is the sort of things you're thinking about. So if you say inject when you mean collect, those are different things, you're going to get different things out of them. This is why we use get annotate instead of get playing. JESS: For sure. Exactly. So at AWS, this is big drive and I'm not speaking for AWS on this, I'm just speaking for me. But I'm noticing this drive for inclusive language and I think it's really beautiful. Connecting that drive, frankly, in the broader tech community to everything that's been going on in this last year in how we interact with each other as humans from different backgrounds, et cetera. It's like, what kinds of dominant culture paradigms have we baked into our code beyond even the very obviously problematic statements, but just the way that we think about, I don't know. Part of me is like, “Well, is object-oriented design driven by certain cultural expectations that we have, or functional?” I don't know. What paradigms would we get if we'd have had a different dominant culture developing technology? I don't know. It's fascinating. DAMIEN: Yeah, and [inaudible] is an excellent example of that. It's a punishment. This is wrong. I did a whole talk several years ago about specifications versus tests. I don't want you to write tests for your code; tests are something you do afterwards to see if something is suitable. Write a specification and then if the code and specifications don't match, well, one of them needs to change. [laughs] JESS: That's right. I love that. That's also kind of like the Pact Contract Testing space. It's like, I like this framework because it allows a consumer of an API to say, “This is what I expect you to do,” and then the API almost has to comply. Whenever I've talked about Pact, I think with a lot of developers, they're like, “Wait, what? That doesn't make any sense at all.” I'm like, “Well, no.” In a way, it's like the API’s prerogative to deliver what the customer expects and to be always right. The customer is right here, in this case and I think it's a really great way to look at this differently. CASEY: That should totally be the tagline for Pact: the consumer is always right. JESS: I love it. [laughs] CASEY: Another way language shapes things, I noticed lately is Valheim is a super popular game where you're a Viking and building houses. There's a command you can type called “imacheater” that lets you spawn in equipment and building materials. On all the forums online, people are harassing each other for doing their own creative mode for spawning stuff in because of that language, I suspect. So in a recent patch, they changed it from imacheater to devtools, or something like that and the forums have rebranded. There's a new moderator is posting things and the culture is completely changing because the devs changed that one word in the changelog and it's just so cool to see language matters. JESS: That's amazing. That's so cool. Actually, I'm totally hooked on Valheim also along with probably everybody else. I have my own little server with some friends. Anyway, we noticed on the Valheim server that there was somebody who sort of redid the loading screen and they really hypersexualized the female character in the painting and actually got a surprising amount of feedback like saying, “Please don't do that. We love Valheim because it's not clearly gendered, or particularly one way, or the other,” and the artist actually took that feedback to heart and put together a much better version of the thing where the woman was very well armored and looked ready for battle and it was really cool. I've been thinking about the whole tech community and there's so many connections to the gamer community as well. Ever since Gamergate, I think we've been putting a really hard light on this whole world. It's just so heartwarming and incredible to know that like this Viking destroying trolls game has people who actually care enough to say, “No, let's pay attention to what that woman's wearing. Make sure she wears something that's actually reasonable.” That's cool. We've come a long way. I mean, not perfect, but it's a long way. CASEY: Yeah, a long way. I always think about progress in terms of people in four groups. There's like people who are vocally for something like they would speak up in this case, people who are vocally against it, and then quiet people who are for, or against it. We can see the vocal people who are supporting this now and I love to think about how many people are moving in that direction who are quiet; we can't see. That's the big cultural shift under the covers. JESS: Yeah. That's a big question. That makes me think about when I was at Optoro, we were trying to understand our employee engagement and so, we used this tool, Culture Amp, which I imagine a lot of people have seen. We did a survey and we got all this data and it's like, “Hey, everybody's really engaged. Maybe there's a couple of minor things we can fix.” But then we were talking to some of our Black employees—those of you who can't see me, I'm white—and there was just a lot of like, “Wow, this doesn't represent us.” Like, “What are you doing? We actually aren't don't feel like this is a really great representation.” We're like, “Well, the data says everything's fine.” So what we actually did, the next survey we ran, we included demographic data in the dataset and then we were able to distribute the data across racial demographics and we saw, oh no, our Black employees are pretty much all pissed off. [laughs] We've done a really bad job of including them for a lot of reasons. For example, we had a warehouse and most of our Black employees worked in the warehouse and it turns out that we had a very corporate-based culture and we didn't pay enough attention and we didn't really engage everybody. The fact that they were basically all in the warehouse is kind of also a problem, too. So there was a lot of really great eye-opening things that we got to see by paying attention to that and looking not just at our Black employees, but all our different demographics. We learned a lot and I think we had a real humbling moment and got to listen, but it's really this quiet – either people who don't use their voice, or can't use their voice, or maybe don't know how to use their voice in a lot of different ways. These people, I think make such an incredible impact on the true feeling of a place, of a community, of a company and really sitting down and listening to those people, I think can be really hard in any position. So I was really happy we were able to do that, but I think you're totally right, Casey, that it's not just moving the vocal people to really change the Overton window, I suppose on what's acceptable in a community. But it's fundamentally, how do you change the people who you aren't hearing from? How do you frankly even know? CASEY: Yeah, it's a big question. There's no easy answer. There's a lot of approaches. I'm glad people are talking about that in the meta sense, that's huge. We want to do this as a community, but there's work to be done and then even once people are comfortable expressing their point of view, there are then further tiers we're going to have to go through like that other people around them understand. They're actively listening and they internalize it. And then beyond that, actually acting on it. I've had experiences at work where I'm usually very confident, I'll say my point of view regardless of the context. I like being outspoken like that and represent quieter people, but often leadership and other people around me don't understand, or even if they do, they don't incorporate that into the plan and then everybody is still very frustrated, maybe even more so in a way, because a light is shining on this problem. And that's the same for marginalized voices. If they can just be heard, that's great, but we have to go farther than that, too. JESS: I couldn't agree more. This is the thing that I struggle with sometimes. I love people. I'm very extroverted. I'm very gregarious, [laughs] as I imagine you can tell, and I like to engage with people and I try to listen, but I find that sometimes I have a big personality and that can be tough, [laughs] I think sometimes. So I super value people you Casey, for example, who I think are much better listeners [laughs] and are willing to represent that. So that's huge. I also, though on the flip side, I know that I can use that loudness to help represent at least one aspect of marginalized people. I'm trans and I'm super loud about that and I'm very happy to make all kinds of noise and say, “Don't forget about trans rights!” [laughs] Frankly, I think it's kind of a wedge into I'm one kind of marginalized community, I represent one kind of marginalized community, but there's a lot more and let's talk about that, too. Not to toot my horn, but like I think those of us who are allowed to have a responsibility to use our loudness in a way that I think supports people and also, to listen when we can. DAMIEN: Can we explore a bit into the into the metal problem of hearing from marginalized voices? I'm an engineer at heart, first and foremost, and so, how do we solve this meta problem? You gave a good example with the survey separated by demographics knowing that racial and gender demographics, or well, finding out that [chuckles] racial and gender demographics were important factors than you think, but how do we solve this on a broader issue? I don't know. JESS: No, that's a great question. I think we have so much calcified thinking that at every organization and every place in the world, there's so much like, “Well, this is the way we've done things,” and frankly, it's not even, “This is the way we've done things.” It's just, “This is the way it works and this is what we do,” and just thinking outside the box, I think it's hard. Finding these areas that we are being blind to in the first place, I think it takes a certain amount of just metacognition and patience and self-reflection, and that's very difficult to do, I think for any human. But driving that shows like this, for example, making sure that people care and think about these kinds of problems and maybe take a second. You as a listener, I'm going to challenge you for a second, take a minute at the end of this podcast and think about what am I not thinking about? I don't know, it's a really freaking hard question, but maybe you might find something. But it's politicians, it's media, it's our leaders in every aspect making sure that we shine a light on something that is different, something that is marginalized, I think is incredibly valuable. That's a first step. But then playing that through everything else we do, that's hard. I think it falls on leaders in every realm that we have like, community leaders, conference organizers, people who lead major open source projects. Making sure that people say, “I believe that Black Lives Matter.” “I believe that we should stand against violence against the Asian community.” Those, I think are powerful statements and saying, “Hey, have we heard from somebody that doesn't look like us lately, who doesn't come from our same socioeconomic educational background?” It's tough. I had food, but I grew up relatively poor, and I think even that is such a huge difference of experience and background to a lot of people that I end up working with and I've been able to talk about like, “How are we setting prices?” Well, who are we actually thinking about? We're not thinking about ourselves here. We're thinking about a different market. Let's make sure we talk to those people. Let's make sure we talk to our customers and make sure that this actually works for them. I was really proud. At Optoro, we built a new brand called BULQ where we took – so 2 seconds on Optoro. We took returns and excess goods from major retailers and helped them get more value out of it and a a lot of the time, we built great classification systems to say, “Oh, well this is a belt and I know how to price belts because I can look on eBay and Amazon and determine, et cetera.” But a lot of the times we couldn't build these kinds of models, like auto parts, for example, were notoriously difficult for us. So we could say, “Oh, this is an auto part. But I don’t know, carburetor, manifold? Who knows?” [laughs] So we were able to classify them as auto parts and then we put them into these cases, maybe like 3-foot square large boxes, and then we were able to sell those in lots to basically individual people who had time to learn what they were and then could resell them. The story that I love to tell here is they're a laid-off auto factory worker, knows a ton about auto parts, and can probably scrounge up enough money to afford this $200 to $300 box, brings it to their house, knows exactly what these parts are and knows exactly what the value is and then can resell them for like 3x to 5x on what this person bought them for. I was so proud to be able to have created this kind of entrepreneurial opportunity for people that we would otherwise often forget about because so much of tech, I think is focused on us. So, it's an interesting thing kind of being at AWS, which is very much a tech for tech company. I love it, don't get me wrong, but sometimes I think these opportunities to listen to the rest of the world, we miss out on. DAMIEN: Yeah. You challenged us to ask ourselves the question, what are we not thinking about and that level of metacognition sounds impossible. It might be impossible. It's close to impossible, if it's not. So I can't help to think the only way to really get that knowledge, that insight is to get people who are different from me, who have different backgrounds, who have different life experiences. You got a great example of someone who knows a lot about car parts, bring them in, they have years of experience in car parts and they can do this stuff that you can't do. But then also, along every axis, if you look around. If you look around the leadership and go, “Oh, there's nobody in leadership here who has this type of experience,” that knowledge, that insight and people like that are not going to be served because it's impossible for them. They don't even know. They can't know. JESS: Could not agree more and it is leadership. Absolutely. You're absolutely right. So many times I've seen, having been a leader, ultimately, you end up in a room with other leaders and you end up making decisions. And if you don't have other voices in there, if you don't have diverse voices, you don't get that benefit. Even if you've gone to the trouble of paying attention to diverse voices beforehand, there's always some data, some argument that comes up and it's like, “Oh, well, maybe, maybe not.” Yeah, I cannot agree enough. This is the other flip side of that is that as a business leader, I have to think about prioritizing the outcomes of the business, it is a fact of my position and I like to think that I work in a lot more data to what that means than other business leaders perhaps. Like, impact on the community. [laughs] Impact on the people. But a lot of times, we'll be having these discussions about who to hire and maybe we'll have done a really great job—and this isn't specific to any particular company that I'm talking about, but I know that this kind of thing happens. Maybe we've done a really great job of getting a diverse pipeline and having talked to a bunch of different kinds of candidates, but when it comes down to it, we're trying to make often the lowest risk decision on who to hire and so often, we are too risk averse to somebody whose background doesn't quite line up to what we're expecting, or to what we think we need. I like to think that I push hiring communities in conversations like that and say like, “Look, let's think beyond what's risky here and factor in more of these aspects to the conversation of getting diverse voices.” But too often, it's very easy, I think for leaders to think, “Well, we’re just going to hire the known quantity,” and I think that is again, on the meta, a major thing that we need to fix. There's so much more to being an effective leader than having the standard pedigree. DAMIEN: Well, there's also, like you mentioned, the risk aversion to not want to hire somebody who's not like all the other people, but then what are the huge risks of having only people who are alike in certain aspects? JESS: Exactly. Couldn't agree more. I think there's tons of examples. If we Google right now, we'd find like companies have made really dumb mistakes because they didn't have somebody in the room who could be like, “That?” The first one that comes to mind is the Chevy Nova, they tried to sell that in Spanish speaking countries, [laughter] “doesn't go,” “not going anywhere.” [laughs] I mean, like that could have been avoided, right? [laughs] CASEY: Nova. JESS: Nova. That might be a trivializing one, but there's been a lot worse and that's a major business risk and I think those arguments carry some weight. I love that so many organizations are prioritizing hiring more diverse leaders, especially, but this is deep pattern that we've gotten into. So that actually comes to mind when you're thinking about how to change your mental patterns. I'm an improviser, I'm all about trying to change my mental patterns all the time so I can try to be creative. Obviously, there's plenty of silly improv games that you get into, but something that's simple, I think that anybody can do is go for a walk and take a different path. Just turn a different way than how you used to. We, humans love to get into patterns, especially engineers, which I find to be highly ironic. Engineers are all about creating change, but don't like change themselves typically. [laughs] But do something a little different, turn left instead of right today, look up instead of down. Those, I think subtle physical changes really do influence our mental states and I think that can actually lead us to thinking in new ways. CASEY: I love it. That's very actionable. I've been doing a lot of walks and hikes and I actually try to go to a different hiking location each time because of that. I think about that idea all the time, take a different path, and it is great. Every time I do it, I feel amazing. I don’t know, more flexible, I think differently. Yeah, try it, listeners. I dare you. JESS: I love it. CASEY: I'm sure there are papers written showing that having diverse teams have very measured effects, a whole bunch of them, more than I know more, than I've read. Well, I guess first of all, I don't know that the data has been collected in a single spot I can point people to and that would be pretty powerful. But then secondly, even if we had that, I'm not sure that's enough to change minds at companies in any widespread way. It might just help some people, who already care, say their message very clearly. Do you know of anything like that Jess, or Damien, either of you? What's the one resource you would send to someone who wants to be equipped with diversity and inclusion data? JESS: Yeah. This study McKinsey did a while ago that, I think gets a lot of traction here where they demonstrated the companies have better total performance with more diverse groups of people and went into some depth with data. I think it's a fantastic study. It's definitely one that I reference often. I've used it to change minds among people who were like, “Wow, what's it really matter?” No, I’ve got data. [laughs] I know. I can see Casey here on video and Casey's mouth just went open [laughs] It's like, “Yes, no, it's, that's real.” No shade on the people I've worked with, I love them, but like, this is such a thing. There are cynics in corporate leadership who want to focus on profit and sometimes, you have to make a cynical argument in business and a cynical argument can come down to data and this data says, “No, look, if we get more people in here who look different from us, we're going to make more money and that's good for you and your bottom line.” So sometimes you have to walk the argument back to that, even if it feels gross and it does, it's like, “No, this actually matters to your bottom line.” DAMIEN: That's a great argument and it's a positive argument. In my view of corporations, I feel like the larger they get, the more you have an agency problem where people aren't looking to take risks to get the positive benefits, they're going to do things to avoid backlash and negative things. So I think larger company, more middle management, more people you’re answerable to, especially on the short-term, the more people are better motivated by fear. So for that, I want to pull out like, what are the risks of homogeneity? You mentioned the Nova. You mentioned like, oh, there was – [laughs] I pull this out far too often. There was an AI image classifier that classified Black people as gorillas. There was a store. Oh goodness, I think it was an Apple store. Beautiful, beautiful architecture, glass everywhere, including the stairs. These are all the harms that come from homogeneity. [laughs] What was the expensive fixing those stairs? It couldn't have been cheap. JESS: Oh my gosh. [chuckles] I don't even wear skirts that often. [laughs] DAMIEN: And I know that's a problem because when I heard that story, I was multiple paragraphs in before I realized the problem. I wear skirts less than you, I'm sure. [laughter] JESS: For sure. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, I think those stories are really important for us to be able to tell and to share with each other because diversity matters. I think it's easy to say that and especially among people who care, people who prioritize it. We almost take it as like a, “Well, of course,” but I think there is still, getting back to that quiet group of people who don't say what they actually think, there's a lot of people who are on the fence, or maybe frankly disagree. It's like, “Well, you can disagree and I respect your disagreement, but here's the data, here's the results, here's the impact. Let's talk about that. Do you have a better way to handle this? Because I don't.” DAMIEN: So I think the risk is especially acute in tech companies and in tech for tech companies where things are far more homogeneous. Next week on how to pronounce these words. [laughs] So what can we do? Is there anything special that we can do in those sort of environments? JESS: Yeah. Well, besides have the conversation, which I think is something we can all do. Not to fangirl too much about Amazon, but I really do like the company and I'm really enjoying my experience. A lot of it comes down to how we've expressed our leadership principles. We say this is our culture and our values and we actually apply it constantly like, if you ever come to talk to an Amazon person, I'm going to tell you about how I've disagreed and committed and what I'm doing to think big and how I'm customer obsessed. I'm going to talk about those things directly. To this, we say one of our leadership principles is that leaders are right a lot and that feels weird, right? Leaders are right a lot? “Oh, I just happen to know everything.” No, that's not what that means. We actually go into it in more depth and it's like leaders look to disconfirm their beliefs and seek diverse perspectives and we bake that right into one of our core cultural values. I think that that is absolutely critical to our ability to serve the broader tech community effectively. The fact that we hold leaders to being right through having gone through a crucible of finding out how they're wrong, I think is magical and I think that's actually something that a lot more companies could think to do. It's like, you as a tech person and you think, “Oh, I'm going to go sell this great new widget to all of my tech buddies.” Okay. You might be right. But how could you make that bigger? How could you make that better? Like go, try to find out how you're wrong. That should be something we value everywhere. It's like, “No, I'm probably wrong. I want to be right.” So the way to get right is to find out every way I'm wrong and that means talk to everybody you can and find out. CASEY: From our conversation here, I'm picking up a couple of tools we have to help persuade people to get them to be louder, or more proactive at least. Data is one. Telling stories from other companies is another one. And then here, I'm picking up get your own stories that you can really tell from your point of view and that's maybe the strongest of the three, really. The change is you, too. I love that idea. JESS: Yeah. We had a internal conference this week, the networking summit, and there was a great session last night from somebody talking about what customers love and what customers hate about our products. He was just telling story after story about customers saying, “Oh, I'm so frustrated with this.” “I would love to change that.” Those stories, I think have so much more weight in our minds. Humans are evolved to tell the stories to each other. So if we have stories to tell, I think those are so much – they connect at a deeper level almost and they help us think about not just that top of brain logical, almost engineering, binary yes, no, but it's more this deeper heart level. “I understand the story that led to this position. I understand the human that feels this way.” Personally, I think no matter how logical we think we are; [chuckles] we’re still walking bags of meat [laughs] and there's a lot to be said to respect that and to connect with that. So yeah, storytelling is huge. DAMIEN: You brought up, earlier in our conversation, about how things might be different with a different cultural paradigm. This is an enormous example of this. White Western culture overvalues logic and objectivity. It's a by-product of the culture and there's a conflation between objectivity and rationality and rightness. Weirdly enough, in my experience, that makes people less able to be rational and objective. It's quite amazing, ironic, and tragic. But if you follow the science, you follow the logic, you follow the rationality; what you'll discover is that humans are not naturally logical, rational beings. We are not rational beings that feel; we are feeling beings that rationalize. From the beginning from the birth of humans as a species, stories and communication have been how we navigate the world, how we see the world, how our beliefs and behaviors change and you can see that throughout all of history and it's the narratives that change everything. So that's something that is super important to have, to know and especially if you want to be effective. Having grown up in this culture, though, it amuses me to no end how little I use that knowledge. [laughs] I argue with logic and facts and wonder why don't people don't understand when I have all the logic and facts that tell me that that's not going to change what they do. [laughs] JESS: Oh, yeah. Honestly, I think our political climate right now is representative of that because it's like, I don't know, I feel like it's so logical and factual, my political perspectives, and then I'll talk to somebody else and they feel the exact same way. Having been in media, I've seen like a lot of what we end up believing is how we sold it to ourselves and the stories that we've told around it and what we've paid attention to. We've listened to it. It's so easy to develop this cognitive filter on the stories that don't line up to your expectations. I don't know. This is, I think an area that engineers really overlook time and time again, is the power of media and the power of the stories that we tell. Being a trans person, I didn't come out until I was in my late 30s because the stories, I grew up with of trans people were stories of serial killers, rapists, murderers, and people who were at the very edges of society and like, I'm like, “Well, I'm not that. I can't be trans.” [laughs] It wasn't until we had these news stories of love, or hate. Caitlyn Jenner, I think set a new story on the world and a lot of things changed around then where we were able to see ourselves in a light that wasn't just pain and I think that we've seen a lot more trans people come out because they're able to see themselves in these happier stories and better stories. So we need more stories like that. Like Pose, I think is amazing and great stories of standing up in a hard place and owning your power, even under all this adversity, I think it's incredible. Those set of stories, I think are just so incredible for everybody and we just need so much more. I could rant for a while. [laughs] CASEY: Yeah. I'm totally on board with this as a queer man, I wasn't comfortable for a lot of my life being that because of the representation. I'm not into drag, but that's not a requirement. [chuckles] A friend of mine just shared a list of children's books that are incidentally queer and I just think that's so cool. The phrase, even. They're just regular storybooks, not about being queer as a topic, but just people doing normal stuff that happened to have including queer characters. JESS: I love that. CASEY: The world is changing. JESS: Yes, and I think we have a responsibility to be a part of that storytelling. Let's tell stories and it doesn't have to be a big deal that the person you’re talking about is a female engineer. No, she just happens to be an engineer. Let's tell stories where he has a husband. Who cares? He has a husband, it's great. It's not the focus of the story. It's just a part of the whole, the melior that we're in. That's really important. So, I think a lot of normalizing – a lot of acceptance comes through normalization and honestly, it's so complicated because there's this tendency to whitewash when you go into this normalizing place. It's like, “Oh, I don't see skin tone.” No, I think that's not the way to do it. I think it's like there are differences in us, in our backgrounds, in our cultures, in our experiences, and that is incredible and that is wonderful, and it's not the story, but it's a part of the story and that's an important part. DAMIEN: Yeah, as a Black man, I've definitely seen this. I like to say Black Panther was the best thing that happened to African-Americans in the history of cinema. Get Out is another example. It's very much about the Black experience, but it's not the old story of what being Black in America is like and so, it's very different. JESS: Definitely. Yeah. CASEY: We're getting near the end of time we have today, let's shift gears into what we normally do at the end, our reflections. What's something that you're going to take away from this conversation? Jess, or Damien, who wants to go first? JESS: I'll start because I already wrote it down here. Damien, you said, “We are feeling beings that rationalize.” That is going to stick with me. That was profound. I love that and it's so obvious, I think but I'd never thought to think of it that way, or to say it that way. So I’ve got to think about that one for a while, but that's, I think really going to stick with me. Thank you. DAMIEN: Thank you, Jess. That's quite an honor. I can drag out like probably a half dozen off the top of my head, or a dozen probably store of scientific studies that show that. [laughs] I never get enough of them mostly because I've been rationalizing more. Anyway, my reflection is really on how technology impacts culture, both within the technologists and how that relates to storytelling, communication, and language. All those things are creating culture and all those things exist in technology, in between technologists, and that's how we can make our culture. It's something that I want it to be, or more like something I want it to be. So thank you. JESS: That's awesome. CASEY: I think my takeaway is I'm noticing that I said I'm very loud and outspoken about a lot of stuff, and I care a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, especially when I’m groups of people talking about it, I talk about that all the time. But can I and how can I take that loudness for diversity, equity, and inclusion with people who don't always talk about it? Who can I approach and how can I tell who is more open to it or not? That's always a big open question for me. I guess, I'll be thinking about that especially this week. JESS: Well, this was a pleasure. Thank you for having me. DAMIEN: This was great, Jess. Thank you so much for joining us. JESS: Yeah, it was delightful. DAMIEN: I suppose this might be a good time to plug our Slack community, which is available to all Patreon for the podcast and also, all of our guests. So Jess, if you want to join us there and we can nerd out some more. I’ll keep throwing you instruments to try and stump you. JESS: Yes! Bring it on! [laughs] Special Guest: Jess Szmajda.

Tobin Moore talks about crisis planning, shutting down, and how his business has shifted dramatically during the pandemic. Tobin is the co-founder and CEO of DC-based Optoro. Under his leadership, Optoro has expanded from a scrappy start-up to a major industry player, helping the nation’s top retailers address the $500B market of returned and excess goods. During this special DC Startup Week edition of Founders Focus, Tobin explains the origins of Optoro and how the company has pivoted and prioritized its operations during the pandemic.Have feedback? Connect with Scott Case on LinkedIn.Visit foundersfocus.com to join the live video sessions, watch past sessions, and see what topics are up next.

Meet: Phillip Schafer leads the data science team at IronNet. He has a PhD in physics from Penn State, where he developed voice recognition algorithms modeled on the human brain's processing of speech. He previously worked on algorithms for pricing and dispositioning returned retail goods at retail startup Optoro. At IronNet, he has implemented machine learning models to help enterprises defend themselves against sophisticated cyber attacks. He lives in Columbia, Md., with his wife and two-year-old son. What you'll learn: Moving from academia to the business world Data science challenges within the cybersecurity industry Transitioning to a management role and moving away from being an individual contributor If you would like to reach out to Phillip about anything he discussed on the podcast, please reach out to him via LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillip-schafer/

Going Green had the chance to interview Ann Starodaj, the Senior Director of Sustainability at Optoro, to learn more about what goes on behind the scenes at some of the biggest companieson the planet. A lot of organizations are working to be more environmentally friendly, and Ann was at the front lines of making this happen. We are excited to have Ann on the podcast, and dive a little bit deeper into sustainability in the corporate world.Support the show (http://www.GoingGreenShow.com)

Data on Kubernetes community virtual meetup #2 with Zach Dunn Senior Direct of Platform Operations, Optoro. We talk today about how the team at Optoro has implemented stateful apps on Kubernetes and what they have learned along the way. Let's talk about storage. Optoro has moved to running stateful stores on Kubernetes. It's a challenge, but it has a lot of value. Let's talk about how we chose to do it, and what we figured out along the way. Key takeaways: Learn about how Optoro chose to run stateful services on kubernetes. Laugh at other people's mistakes! Cry with us over our pain. Maybe question some of the assumptions around storage in k8s. Wonder about the future of data in Kubernetes. Bio: Zach's spent most of his tech career in something that vaguely resembles production infrastructure. This has ranged from hot aisle drudgery to professional nerd herder and budget owner. Once an individual but now is he collectively just known as "Arabella's Dad" or on occasion "William's Dad". He currently is the Senior Director of Platform Operations and CISO at Optoro helping teams build and deliver modern software for enterprise clients Join our slack: https://join.slack.com/t/dokcommunity/shared_invite/zt-g3ui5r0g-jDKz5dhh2W1ayElqwKYYAg Follow us on Twitter: @dokcommunity Connect with Demetrios on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpbrinkm/ Connect with Zach on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zach-dunn-11507217/ This meetup is sponsored by MayaData, which helped start the DOK.community and remains an active supporter. MayaData sponsors two Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF) projects, OpenEBS - the leading open-source container attached storage solution - and Litmus - the leading Kubernetes native chaos engineering project, which was recently donated to the CNCF as a Sandbox project. As of June 2020, MayaData is the sixth-largest contributor to CNCF projects. Well-known users of MayaData products include the CNCF itself, Bloomberg, Comcast, Arista, Orange, Intuit, and others. Check out more info at https://mayadata.io/

Zoe Sharp, a 2003 graduate of Stanford Law School, is assistant general counsel at Optoro, a software company that keeps her busy in many areas of law. This episode is hosted by Kyle McEntee. It's sponsored by LSAC, the Law School Admission Council.

From the Simplr studios in San Francisco, this is your daily briefing.  IntroductionWith your Retail E-Commerce Briefing for today, Tuesday, December 10th, I'm Vincent Phamvan.Rent the Runway just formed a partnership with W Hotels to create a unique clothing rental experience. The company has embraced partnerships as they’ve continued to grow and it’s since influenced how traditional retail players innovate.  First, here are some retail headlines.  IKEA Buys Majority Stage in OptoroIKEA announced it bought a majority stake in U.S. startup, Optoro. The tech startup helps retailers manage returns more efficiently, which is a growing need as shopping moves online and return volumes grow. IKEA will roll out Optoro’s functionality to distribution centers, stores, and its customer support center in the United States, and will look at taking it to other markets. In a statement, a company executive said,  “Optoro’s solution will enable us to eliminate much of the waste created in the reverse supply chain, from minimizing the carbon emissions released in return shipping to finding the best next homes for returned items.”  Target Plans Times Square Small-Format StoreTarget announced its plans to open a new small-format store in Times Square. Expected to open in 2022, the store would be the retailer’s 10th opened or planned small-format store in Manhattan, which the company describes as a priority growth market for the company. Target has found success opening its small-format concept stores, with the company’s COO John Mulligan noting the retailer opened seven small format stores in the third quarter and another six in November with plans to open 30 small-format stores per year. On a conference call, Target CEO Brian Cornell said the expansion of its smaller stores was taking Target into new neighborhoods.  “Those are guests that were not shopping Target on a regular basis before, they are now.. Target has been stealing market share and expanding sales this year, posting improved performances with each quarter. The store’s growth stems from the retailer’s investments in both its private labels and its stores.Crocs CEO Says Teens are Loyal CustomersAccording to Crocs CEO, Andrew Rees, teen shoppers are more loyal than you’d think. Rees said, “When they’re buying something that provides a lot of value, they stick with it.”  Teens are choosing to wear Crocs more and more. The company ranked as the seventh most popular footwear brand among teens this fall, its highest ranking ever, according to a survey from Piper Jaffray. Last fall, Crocs ranked 13th. According to Rees, teens are important because they influence parents and siblings, along with sharing on social media. They’re an important consumer because they’re able to bring more people to the brand.  Rent the Runway and W Hotels Create New Rental ExperienceRent the Runway has partnered with Marriott International’s W Hotels to create a truly unique rental experience. At four W Hotels locations, visitors will have the option to pay a $69 dollar fee and pick four styles from Rent the Runway’s curated selection to wear during their stay. The clothing options will take into account the climate of the area and surrounding activities like skiing or swimming. Rent the Runway will ship the items to W Hotels where they’ll be delivered to people’s hotel rooms. At checkout, the clothes can be left behind in the room. Rent the Runway will also have mini closets stocked with outfits at the four hotels in case sizes don’t work or customers want additional items during their stay. Rent the Runway COO, Maureen Sullivan, said the plan is to grow to other properties in W Hotels’ portfolio over time.  Rent the Runway how been expanding on its partnerships recently. It has drop-off boxes in select WeWork and Nordstrom locations, along with a growing number of stores in New York, San Francisco, Chicago, and Washington D.C. The apparel rental service has also been expanding outside of its original category, adding home goods and kids apparel to its portfolio. Earlier this month, the company announced it would be renting out athletic apparel and ski attire from brands like Lululemon and Aztech Mountain.  When any company experiences rapid growth like Rent the Runway has, issues are bound to happen. In September, the company briefly stopped taking new customers due to a supply chain issue causing systemwide slowdowns. Customers complained about canceled and delayed orders, but by October, the company seemed to be back on track. Sullivan said, “If we are going to have problems, I want them to be growth-driven problems...It’s a privilege as a company we play this role in our customers’ lives.” .With sustainability and affordable value at the forefront of consumers’ minds, disruptor brands like Rent the Runway, thredUP, and StitchFix have challenged traditional retailers, forcing some players to shift their focus. More consumers are opting for rental or resale options instead of restocking their closets with items they won’t wear often. Urban Outfitters, Express, and Gap’s Banana Republic are just a few of the brands that have since launched their own rental platforms.  Rent the Runway hit a $1 billion dollar valuation earlier this year and was also named number five on CNBC’s Disruptor 50 list for 2019.ClosingFind out how Simplr can cut your customer service response time through cutting-edge technology and on-demand talent at simplr.ai. That’s S-I-M-P-L-R.ai.Thanks for listening to this latest episode of the Retail E-Commerce Briefing. See you tomorrow. 

This week on the pod, Thom Byrne speaks to Daniel Oros, co-founder of G2VP. Byrne and Oros discuss the state of venture capital and the sustainable companies G2VP invests in. In 2009, Daniel joined Kleiner Perkins and led investments for the Green Growth Fund before co-founding G2VP. Daniel’s primary focus has been on rapidly growing technology companies in the industrial, consumer, and financial services sectors. Dan is a Board member at Fictiv, an observer at Turvo, and led G2VP’s investment in Carbon. He also serves as a Board member at Optoro, a Green Growth Fund portfolio company. Prior to this, Mr. Oros was a Vice President of the Goldman Sachs Special Situations Group and a founding member of its Alternative Energy Investing team. Mr. Oros holds a B.S. degree, with distinction, in Management Science and Engineering from Stanford, with a concentration in Financial and Decision Engineering. Experts Only is hosted by CleanCapital. Learn more: www.cleancapital.com/experts-only Follow on Twitter: @CleanCapital_ To learn more about G2VP’s investment Portfolio check out: https://www.g2vp.com/

Omni Talk sits down with Optoro SVP of e-commerce, Larisa Summers live from Shoptalk to discuss the rapidly evolving returns space and how it can make or break a retailer's business. **Sponsored Content**

Optoro uses data analytics to help brands determine the best way to sell off excess inventory. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/ecommerceminute/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/ecommerceminute/support

This week Chris highlights the rash of retail investor news, like The RealReal’s latest round, SoftBank’s investment in Brandless, Optoro’s new $75M raise, and Google’s investment in Scandit. — Omni Talk is a production of RedArcherRetail.com and OmniTalk.blog, hosted by leading omnichannel retail expert, Chris Walton. Chris is the founder of the retail start-up, Red Archer Retail and author of one of the fastest growing blogs in retail -- OmniTalk.blog. His Fast Five podcast dives into the top retail news headlines of the week in just five quick minutes, all in Chris’s signature candid and humorous style. including serious and sometimes comic musings on the past, present and future of retail. Want more? Be sure to check out the After the Five podcast, where Chris and fellow omnichannel enthusiasts, Anne Mezzenga and Carter Jensen, go even deeper into the headlines and what they could mean for the future of retail. If you enjoy these podcasts, please also be sure to visit OmniTalk.blog to subscribe to Chris’s blog and to get all the retail commentary you could ever want, and more, delivered straight to your inbox. Music from HookSounds.com

Jess Szmajda is the CTO of Optoro, the creator of the DC Tech Slack, and the organizer of the Joy of Programming meetup. She has a long history in tech and talks to us about how her life has changed from tech geek to CTO!

Today’s online shopper wants what they want when they want it. But they also want to return whatever they want whenever they want. The problem? Too many companies focus on that first reality while ignoring the latter challenge, Toby Moore, co-founder and CEO of Optoro, argues. In this episode, the leader of the reverse logistics company explains how an innovative returns approach creates return customers. Consumers today want to return any item – no questions asked. But we have plenty of questions for Toby: How did he start Optoro from his college dorm room? What happens to a returned package? How can a data-driven returns strategy shape a more sustainable future? And what exactly is a modern dumpster diver?

A bellwether for the region's tech community is a company that helps retailers and manufacturers manage and resell excess merchandise. As a circular economy company, heavy sustainability focus, Optoro has a finger on the pulse of the areas tech industry, according to Josh Szmajda, Optoros Chief Technology Officer.

In this week's episode of The New Stack Analysts, we dive into a discussion surrounding migrating from Amazon EC2 to containers, the shift toward container-based infrastructure, and how Joyent has helped reverse logistics solution platform Optoro to achieve its own API-driven infrastructure while remaining on premise. The New Stack Founder Alex Williams and co-host EBook editor Benjamin Ball spoke with Optoro Director of DevOps Zach Dunn for an in-depth discussion surrounding these topics and more. Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzlNyWBmIdQ Learn more at: https://thenewstack.io/tns-analysts-show-107-exploring-economics-containers/