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MENÚ DEL DÍA 00:00 Quién ha venido a vernos hoy? 00:34 Bienvenida. 03:12 Pesadillas y ascensores. 04:54 Te has hecho sangre? 06:21 Just Hanging Around... 08:21 Claqué y nuevas skills. 13:27 Tropiezos y Noguera. 15:00 Toni Rovira y tú. 16:54 La Raja, con Yunez Chaib. 19:16 Monólogos. 22:24 Borracha en los hits. 25:19 Proceso de escritura. 31:08 Museo Coconut. 35:56 Visto lo visto/Rubius. 40:47 Sopa de gansos. 42:10 Hacer que el video luzca. 46:05 Flowtime. 48:05 Edgar Lledó / Salaos. 49:20 Un tio chill. 52:03 Imitaciones. 56:50 Joggini. El precio justo de Aliexpress. 1:07:15 No Todo Vale a... 1:08:05 La regalía. COSAS GRATIS: Usando el código NOTODOVALE en cualquier compra de Pampling te llevas unos calcetines by the face: https://www.pampling.com?utm_campaign=Afiliacion&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Patrocinio&utm_content=RRSS&utm_term=NOTODOVALE REDES SOCIALES: Instagram: instagram.com/notodovalepodcast Tik Tok: tiktok.com/@notodovalepodcast Twitter: https://twitter.com/notodovaletv

Hablamos de Twitch, una plataforma de vídeos en directo muy famosa entre los más jóvenes. El caso es que este servicio de TV por Internet está en horas bajas. Hace bastante tiempo que el monopolio de Twitch viene tambaleándose por diferentes motivos. Y lo peor es que el propio Rubius ha dejado ver cuáles podrían ser los clavos del ataúd de esta plataforma.

Dr. Ryan Augustin and Dr. Jason Luke discuss neoadjuvant immunotherapy and the importance of multidisciplinary team coordination, promising new TIL therapy for advanced melanoma, and the emerging role of CD3 engagers in treatment strategies. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Ryan Augustin: Hello, I'm Dr. Ryan Augustin, your guest host of the ASCO Daily News Podcast today. I'm a medical oncology fellow at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. Joining me today is Dr. Jason Luke, an associate professor of medicine and the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutic Center at the University of Pittsburgh Hillman Cancer Center. I had the privilege of working as a postdoc in Jason's translational bioinformatics lab, where we investigated mechanisms of resistance to immunotherapy in melanoma and other cancers.  Today, we'll be discussing 3 important topics, including neoadjuvant immunotherapy and the importance of multidisciplinary team coordination, the impact and practical considerations for incorporating TIL therapy into melanoma, and the current and future use of CD3 engagers in both uveal and cutaneous melanoma.  You'll find our full disclosures in the transcript of this episode.  Jason, it's great to have this opportunity to speak with you today. Dr. Jason Luke: Absolutely. Thanks, Ryan. It's great to see you. Dr. Ryan Augustin: So, to kick things off, Jason, we, of course, have seen tremendous advances in cancer immunotherapy, not only in metastatic disease but also the perioperative setting. Recent data have shown that the use of neoadjuvant therapy can provide not only critical prognostic information but can also help individualize post-resection treatment strategies and potentially even eliminate adjuvant therapy altogether in patients who achieve a pathologic, complete response. This signifies a conceptual shift in oncology with the goal of curing patients with immunotherapy. In triple-negative breast cancer, the KEYNOTE-522 regimen with pembrolizumab is standard of care. In non-small cell lung cancer, there are now four FDA approved chemo-IO regimens in both the neoadjuvant and perioperative settings. And, of course, in melanoma, starting with SWOG S1801 utilizing pembro mono therapy, and now with combined CTLA-4 PD-1 blockade based on results from the NADINA trial, neoadjuvant IO is the new standard of care in high-risk, resectable melanoma. It's important to highlight this because whereas other tumor types have more mature multidisciplinary care, for example, patients with breast cancer are reviewed by the whole team in every center, and every patient with lung cancer certainly benefits from multidisciplinary care conferences, that's not always the case with melanoma, given the relative frequency of cases compared to other tumor types.  Jason, would you say that we have now moved into an era where the integration of a multidisciplinary team and melanoma needs to be prioritized. And why is it important to have multidisciplinary team coordination from the onset of a patient's diagnosis? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, I think those are great questions, Ryan, and I think they really speak to the movement in our field and the great success that we've had integrating systemic therapy, particularly immunotherapy, into our treatment paradigms. And so, before answering your question directly, I would add even a little bit more color, which is to note that over the last few years, we've additionally seen the development of adjuvant therapy into stages of melanoma that, historically speaking, were considered low-risk, and medical oncologists might not even see the patient. To that, I'm speaking specifically about the stage 2B and 2C approvals for adjuvant anti-PD-1 with pembrolizumab or nivolumab. So this has been an emerging complication.  Classically, patients are diagnosed with melanoma by either their primary care doctor or a dermatologist. Again, classically, the next step was referral to a surgeon who had removed the primary lesion, with discussion around nodal evaluation as well. And that paradigm has really changed now, where I think integration of medical oncology input early on in the evaluation of the appropriate treatment plan for patients with melanoma is quite a pressing issue now, both because we have FDA approvals for therapeutics that can reduce risk of recurrence, and whether or not to pursue those makes a big difference to the patient for discussion early on.  And, moreover, the use of systemic therapies now, prior to surgery, of course, then, of course, requires the involvement of medical oncology. And just for an emphasis point on this, it's classically the case, for good reason, that surgeons complete their surgery and then feel confident to tell the patient, “Well, we got it all, and you're just in really good shape.” And while I understand where that's coming from, that often leaves aside the risk of recurrence. So you can have the most perfect surgery in the world and yet still be at very high risk of recurrence. And so it's commonly the case that we get patients referred to us after surgery who think they're just in totally good shape, quite surprised to find out that, in fact, they might have a 20% to 50% risk of recurrence. And so that's where this multidisciplinary integration for patient management really does make a big difference.  And so I would really emphasize the point you were making before, which is that we need multidisciplinary teams of med onc with derm, with surgery early on, to discuss “What are the treatment plans going to be for patients?” And that's true for neoadjuvant therapy, so, for palpable stage 3, where we might give checkpoint inhibitors or combinations before surgery. But it's true even in any reasonably high-risk melanoma, and I would argue in that state, anything more than stage 1 should be discussed as a group, because that communication strategy with the patient is so important from first principles, so that they have an expectation of what it's going to look like as they are followed out over time. And so we're emphasizing this point because I think it's mostly the case at most hospitals that there isn't a cutaneous oncology disease management meeting, and I think there needs to be.  It's important to point out that usually the surgeons that do this kind of surgery are actually either the GI surgeons who do colon cancer or the breast surgeons. And so, given that melanoma, it's not the most common kind of cancer, it could easily be integrated into the existing disease review groups to review these cases. And I think that's the point we really want to emphasize now. I think we're not going to belabor the data so much, but there are enormous advantages to either perioperative or adjuvant systemic therapy in melanoma. We're talking about risk reduction of more than 50%, 50-75% risk reduction. It's essential that we make sure we optimally offer that to patients. And, of course, patients will choose what they think is best for their care. But we need to message to them in a way that they can understand what the risks and benefits of those treatments are and then are well set up to understand what that treatment might look like and what their expectations would be out over time.  So I think this is a great art of medicine place to start. Instead of belaboring just the details of the trial to say, let's think about how we take care of our patients and how we communicate with them on first principles so that we can make the most out of the treatments that we do have available. Dr. Ryan Augustin: That's great, Jason. Very insightful points. Thank you.  So, shifting gears now, I'd also like to ask you a little bit about TIL therapy in melanoma. So our listeners will be aware that TIL is a promising new approach for treating advanced melanoma and leverages the power of a patient's cytotoxic T cells to attack cancer cells. While we've known about the potential of this therapy for some time, based on pioneering work at the NCI, this therapy is now FDA approved under the brand AMTAGVI (Lifileucel) from Iovance Biotherapeutics, making it the first cellular therapy to be approved for a solid tumor. Now, I know TIL therapy has been administered at your institution, Jason, for several years now, under trial status primarily for uveal melanoma using an in-house processing. But for many cancer centers, the only experience with cellular therapy has come under the domain of malignant hematology with CAR T administration. At our institution, for example, we have only recently started administering TIL therapy for melanoma, which has required a tremendous multidisciplinary effort among outpatient oncology, critical care, and an inpatient hematology service that has expertise in cytokine release syndrome.  Jason, where do you see TIL therapy fitting into the metastatic space? Which patients do you think are truly candidates for this intensive therapy? And what other practical or logistical considerations do you think we should keep in mind moving forward? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, thanks for raising this. I think the approval of lifileucel, which is the scientific name for the TIL product that's on the market now. It really is a shift, a landscape shift in oncology, and we're starting in melanoma again, as seems to be commonly the case in drug development. But it's really important to understand that this is a conceptually different kind of treatment, and therefore, it does require different considerations. Starting first with data and then actualization, maybe secondarily, when we see across the accelerated approval package that led to this being available, we quote patients that the response rate is likely in the range of 30%, maybe slightly lower than that, but a meaningful 25% to 30% response rate, and that most of those patients that do have response, it seems to be quite durable, meaning patients have been followed up to four years, and almost all the responders are still in response. And that's a really powerful thing to be able to tell a patient, particularly if the patient has already proceeded through multiple lines of prior standard therapy. So this is a very, very promising therapy.  Now, it is a complicated therapy as well. And so you highlighted that to do this, you have to have a tumor that's amenable for resection, a multidisciplinary team that has done a surgery to remove the tumor, sent it off to the company. They then need to process the TIL out of the tumor and then build them up into a personalized cell product, bring it back, you have to lympho-deplete the patient, re-introduce this TIL. So this is a process that, in the standard of care setting under best circumstances, takes roughly six weeks. So how to get that done in a timely fashion, I think, is evolving within our paradigms. But I think it is very important for people who practice in settings where this isn't already available to realize that referring patients for this should be a strong consideration. And thinking about how you could build your multidisciplinary team in a way to be able to facilitate this process, I think is going to be important, because this concept of TIL is relevant to other solid tumors as well. It's not approved yet in others, but we kind of assume eventually it probably will be. And so I think, thinking through this, how could it work, how do you refer patients is very important.  Now, coming back to the science, who should we treat with this? Well, of course, it's now an air quotes “standard of care option”, so really it ought to be available to anybody. I will note that currently, the capacity across the country to make these products is not really adequate to treat all the patients that we'd want. But who would we optimally want to treat, of course, would be people who have retained a good performance status after first line therapy, people who have tumors that are easily removable and who have not manifested a really rapid disease progression course, because then, of course, that six-week timeline probably doesn't make sense. The other really interesting data point out of the clinical trials so far is it has looked like the patients who got the least amount of benefit from anti-PD-1 immunotherapy, in other words, who progressed immediately without any kind of sustained response, those patients seem to have the best response to TILs, and that's actually sort of a great biomarker. So, this drug works the best for the population of patients where checkpoint inhibitors were not effective. And so as you think about who those patients might be in your practice, as you're listening, I think prioritizing it for primary progression on anti PD-1, again and giving it ahead thought about how would you get the patient through this process or referred to this process very quickly is really important because that lag time is a problem. Patients who have melanoma tend to progress reasonably quickly, and six weeks can be a long time in melanoma land. So, thinking ahead and building those processes is going to be important moving into the future Dr. Ryan Augustin: Definitely appreciate those practical considerations. Jason, thank you.  Moving on to our final topic, I was hoping to discuss the use of immune cell engagers in melanoma. So, similar to CAR T therapy, bispecific T-cell engagers, or BiTEs, as they're commonly known, are standard of care in refractory myeloma and lymphoma. But these antibodies engaging CD-3 on T cells and a tumor specific antigen on cancer cells are relatively new in the solid tumor space. Tarlatamab, which is a DLL-3 and CD-3 bispecific antibody, was recently approved in refractory small cell lung cancer, and, of course, tebentafusp, an HLA-directed CD-3 T cell engager was approved in uveal melanoma in 2022. Both T and NK cell engaging therapies are now offering hope in cancers where there has historically been little to offer. However, similar to our discussion with TIL therapy, bispecifics can lead to CRS and neurotoxicity, which require considerable logistical support and care coordination.  Jason, I was wondering if you could briefly discuss the current landscape of immune cell engagers in melanoma and how soon we may see these therapies enter the treatment paradigm for cutaneous disease. Dr. Jason Luke: I think it is an exciting, novel treatment strategy that I think we will only see emerge more and more. You alluded to the approval of tebentafusp in uveal melanoma, and those trials were, over the course of a decade, where those of us in solid tumor land learned how to manage cytokine release syndrome or the impact of these C3 bispecifics, in a way that we weren't used to. And what I'll caution people is that CRS, as this term, it sounds very scary because people have heard of patients that, of course, had difficult outcomes and hematological malignancies, but it's a spectrum of side effects. And so, when we think about tebentafusp, which is the approved molecule, really what we see is a lot of rash because GP100, the other tumor antigen target, is in the skin. So, patients get a rash, and then people do get fevers, but it's pretty rare to get more than that. So really what you have to have is the capacity to monitor patients for 12 hours, but it's really not more scary than that. So it really just requires treating a few people to kind of get used to these kinds of symptoms, because they're not the full-on ICU level CRS that we see with, say, CAR T-cells.  But where is the field going? Well, there's a second CD3 bispecific called brenetafusp that targets the molecule PRAME, that's in a phase 3 clinical trial now for frontline cutaneous melanoma. And tebentafusp is also being evaluated in cutaneous melanoma for refractory disease. So, it's very possible that these could be very commonly used for cutaneous melanoma, moving into, say, a two-to-four-year time horizon. And so therefore, getting used to what are these side effects, how do you manage them in an ambulatory practice for solid tumor, etc., is going to be something everyone's going to have to learn how to deal with, but I don't think it should be something that people should be afraid of.  One thing that we've seen with these molecules so far is that their kinetics of treatment effect do look slightly different than what we see with more classic oncology therapies. These drugs have a long-term benefit but doesn't always manifest as disease regression. So, we commonly see patients will have stable disease, meaning their tumor stops growing, but we don't see that it shrank a lot, but that can turn into a very meaningful long-term benefit. So that's something that we're also, as a community, going to have to get used to. It may not be the case we see tumors shrink dramatically upfront, but rather we can actually follow people with good quality- of-life over a longer period of time.  Where is the field going? You mentioned tarlatamab in small cell lung cancer, and I think we're only going to see more of these as appropriate tumor antigens are identified in different tumors. And then the other piece is these CD3 engagers generally rely upon some kind of engagement with a T cell, whether CD3 engagers, and so they can be TCR or T-cell receptor-based therapies, although they can be also SCFV-based. But that then requires new biomarkers, because TCR therapy requires HLA restriction. So, understanding that now we're going to need to profile patients based on their germline in addition to the genomics of the tumor. And those two things are separate. But I would argue at this point, basically everybody with cutaneous melanoma should be being profiled for HLA-A(*)0201, which is the major T-cell receptor HLA haplotype that we would be looking for, because whether or not you can get access immediately to tebentafusp, but therefore clinical trials will become more and more important.  Finally, in that T-cell receptor vein, there are also T cell receptor-transduced T cells, which are also becoming of relevance in the oncology community and people listening will be aware in synovial sarcoma of the first approval for a TCR-transduced T cell with afamitresgene autoleucel. And in melanoma, we similarly have TCR-transduced T cells that are coming forward in clinical trials into phase 3, the IMA203 PRAME-directed molecule particularly. And leveraging our prior conversation about TILs, we're going to have more and more cellular based therapies coming forward, which is going to make it important to understand what are the biomarkers that go with those, what are the side effect profiles of these, and how do you build your practice in a way that you can optimally get your patients access to all of these different treatments, because it will become more logistically complicated, kind of as more of these therapies come online over the next, like we said, two to four years kind of time horizon. So, it's very exciting, but there is more to do, both logistically and scientifically. Dr. Ryan Augustin: That's excellent. Thanks, Jason, and thank you so much for sharing your great insight with us today on the ASCO Daily News Podcast. Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks so much for the opportunity. Dr. Ryan Augustin: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. You will find links to the abstracts discussed today in the transcript of this episode, and you can follow Dr. Luke on X, formerly known as Twitter, @jasonlukemd. And you can find me, @RyanAugustinMD. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Follow today's speakers: @ryanaugustinmd Dr. Jason Luke @jasonlukemd   Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn   Disclosures: Dr. Ryan Augustin: No relationships to disclose Dr. Jason Luke: Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical, Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof) Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio

Llega un nuevo episodio de verano!! En el episodio de hoy tenemos a Santi (Sansaez13) a solas, secuestrando el podcast, hablando de la última polémica en el mundo del coleccionismo y el Rubius. Disfrutad del episodio!!

Dr. Diwakar Davar and Dr. Jason Luke discuss advances in the neoadjuvant immunotherapy space that were presented at the 2024 ASCO Annual Meeting, including promising outcomes in high-risk melanoma from the NADINA trial, as well as other new treatment options for patients with advanced cancers.    TRANSCRIPT Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm your guest host, Dr. Diwakar Davar, and I am an associate professor of medicine and the clinical director of the Melanoma Skin Cancer Program at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center. I am delighted to have my colleague and friend Dr. Jason Luke on the podcast today to discuss key late-breaking abstracts and advances in immunotherapy that were presented at the 2024 ASCO Annual Meeting. Dr. Luke is an associate professor of medicine, the associate director of clinical research, and the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutic Center at the University of Pittsburgh Hillman Cancer Center.   You will find our full disclosures in the transcript of this episode.  Jason, it's always a pleasure to hear your insights on the key trials in these spaces and to have you back as a guest on this podcast that highlights some of the work, especially advances, that were just presented. Dr. Jason Luke: Well, thanks very much for the invitation. I always love joining the podcast. Dr. Diwakar Davar: We'll start very quickly by talking about some advances and really interesting things that happened both in the context of melanoma but also in immunotherapy in general. And we'll start with what I think was certainly one highlight for me, which was LBA2, the late-breaking abstract on the NADINA trial. It was featured in the Plenary Session, and in this abstract, Dr. Christian Blank and colleagues reported on the results of this phase 3 trial of neoadjuvant ipi-nivo. This is the flipped dose of ipi1/nivo3 versus adjuvant nivolumab in PD-1 naive, macroscopic, resectable, high-risk stage 3 melanoma.  By way of background, neoadjuvant immunotherapy for those listening is an area of increasing interest for drug developers and development for both approved and novel agents. Neoadjuvant immunotherapy has been studied with multiple approved agents, including PD-1 monotherapy, PD-1 LAG-3, PD-1 CTLA-4, T-VEC, as well as investigational agents and multiple randomized and non-randomized studies. The benchmark pathologic response rates with these agents range from 17% PCR with PD-1 monotherapy, 45% to 55% PCR with PD-1 CTLA-4 combination therapy, and slightly higher 57% PCR with PD-1 LAG-3 has recently reported by Dr. Rodabe Amaria from MD Anderson. However, as we embark on phase 3 comparisons for various neoadjuvant compared to adjuvant immunotherapy trials and combinations, we're increasingly moving towards event-free survival as the primary endpoint for neoadjuvant versus adjuvant studies. And this was most recently studied in the context of SWOG S1801, a study that was led by Dr. Sapna Patel.  So, Jason, before we start on NADINA, can you briefly summarize the SWOG S1801 trial and the event-free survival statistic reported by Dr. Patel and her colleagues? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, absolutely. And these data were reported at ESMO about two years ago and then in the New England Journal last year. The S1801 study answered a very simple question: What would happen if you took three of the doses of standard adjuvant therapy with pembrolizumab and moved them prior to surgery? And on a high level, the study is as simple as that. And many of us were somewhat skeptical of this trial design because we thought that just moving the doses earlier may not actually have a major impact.  In the study, you alluded to the event-free survival statistic, and that alludes to what was considered an event. And so, without reading all of it, there were several different aspects that were included in terms of time, based on the date of randomization until the first of a series of events, such as disease progression, toxicity from treatment, if the patient was unable to go to surgery or had surgical complications, or if they had delay in starting the adjuvant therapy due to toxicity, and obviously, recurrence of melanoma or death from any cause. In that context, merely moving the 3 doses of pembrolizumab to the neoadjuvant setting saw an improvement in this two-year event free survival to 72% for the neoadjuvant therapy compared to 49% for the adjuvant therapy. That was quite an outstanding change. And again, noting the power of neoadjuvant treatment, really dictating the impact of anti PD-1, again, just with 3 doses moving from adjuvant into the neoadjuvant setting, and I think all of us were somewhat surprised to see that magnitude of a benefit. But it set up the current study very well, where we now look at combination therapy. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So let's move on to the phase 3 NADINA trial. Do you want to perhaps discuss the study design, particularly focusing on the EFS primary endpoint and maybe also touching on the different schedules? So, SWOG S1801 was a neoadjuvant study of 3 cycles of pembrolizumab and how did that compare and contrast to the neoadjuvant combination that was studied in NADINA? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, as you alluded to, NADINA investigated the regimen of nivolumab plus ipilimumab and compared that against adjuvant therapy with nivolumab alone. So, in the study, as you alluded, the dose and schedule of the two drugs used was nivolumab at 3 milligrams per kilogram, and ipilimumab with 1 milligram per kilogram. That was based on a series of signal finding and safety studies that had been previously done by the same group of authors identifying that as the optimal treatment regimen. And it's worth noting that's slightly different than the labeled indication that's generally used for those same drugs for metastatic melanoma, albeit that the NCCN also endorses this schedule. So, in the trial, 423 patients were randomized, 1:1 to receive either neoadjuvant therapy with those 2 doses of nivolumab plus ipilimumab as compared with standard adjuvant therapy with nivolumab following surgery.   Now, one interesting tweak was that there was an adaptive nature to the study, meaning that patients had a fiducial placed at the index lymph node, and after the neoadjuvant therapy in that arm, that lymph node was removed. And if the patient had a major pathological response, they did not go on to receive the adjuvant portion of the treatment. So it was adaptive because those patients who did very well to the neoadjuvant did not require the adjuvant portion. And in those patients who did not achieve a major pathological response, they could go on to have the adjuvant therapy. And that also included the BRAF therapy for those whose tumors were BRAF mutants.  It's also worth pointing out that the definition of event free survival was slightly different than in the S1801 study that was alluded to just a second ago. And here, EFS was defined from the date of randomization until progression due to melanoma or due to treatment. So that's slightly different than the definition in the S1801 trial. So, a somewhat complicated study, but I really applaud the authors because I think this study does mirror what we would likely be doing in actual clinical practice.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, just to briefly summarize the efficacy, and then to get your comments on this, the path response, the PCR rate was 47%. The major pathologic response rate, which is the proportion of patients with between 0% to 1/10% of residual viable tumors, was about 12%. And for a major pathologic response rate of 0% to 10% of 59%. And then the rest of the patients had either pathologic partial response, which was 10% to 50%, or pathologic non response or 50% or greater residual viable tumor, all assessed using central pathology grades. The one year RFS was 95% in the FDR patient population versus 76% in the pathologic partial response patient population, 57% in the pathologic non response patient population. So how do you view these results? Can you context the FDR rates and the EFS rates from NADINA relative to nivo-rela and also potentially SWOG 1801? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, I think these are very exciting results. I think that for those of us that have been following the field closely, they're actually not especially surprising because they mirror several studies that have come before them. When we put them in context with other studies, we see that these rates of major pathological response are consistent with what we've seen in phase 2 studies. They're relatively similar. Or I should say that the results from nivolumab and relatlimab, which was also pursued in a phase 2 study of somewhat similar design, are somewhat similar to this. So, combination immunotherapy does look to deliver a higher major pathological response than pembrolizumab alone, as was known in S1801. Which of course, the caveat being is these are cross control comparisons that we need to be careful about. So I think all of these are active regimens, and I think adding a second agent does appear to enhance the major pathologic response rates. When we look at the event free survival, we see something similar, which is that numerically it looks to be that combination immunotherapy delivers a higher event free survival rate. And that looks to be rather meaningful given the difference in the hazard ratios that were observed between these various studies. And here in the NADINA study, we see that 0.3 hazard ratio for EFS is just extremely impressive.  So the abstract then, from ourselves, out of these specific studies, what does this mean more broadly in the real world, where patients exist and the rest of the landscape for clinical trials? I think we can't take enough time to stop for a second and just think about what a revolution we've come forward in with immune checkpoint blockade and melanoma. When I started my career, now, more than 15 years ago, melanoma was the cancer that made cancer bad. And now here we say, in the highest risk of perioperative patients, we can deliver 2 doses of nivolumab and ipilimumab, and essentially half of the patients then don't need to go on, and more than half the patients don't need to go on to have a full surgery and don't need adjuvant therapy. And from what we could tell of a very, very low risk of every heavy recurrence of melanoma. Of course, there's the other half of patients where we still need to do better, but these are just fantastic results and I think highly meaningful for patients.   In the context of ongoing clinical trials, another abstract that was presented during the meeting was the update to the individualized neoantigen therapy, or V940 with pembrolizumab or against pembrolizumab alone. That's the KEYNOTE-942 study. In that study, they presented updated data at two and a half years for relapse free survival, noting a 75% rate without relapse. So those results are also highly intriguing. And these are in a similar population of very high risk patients. And so I think most of us believe that neoadjuvant therapy with this study in NADINA is now confirmed as the priority approach for patients who present with high-risk stage 3 disease. So that would be bulky disease picked up on a scan or palpable in a clinic. I think essentially all of us now believe patients should get preoperative immunotherapy. We can debate which approach to take, and it may vary by an individual patient's ability to tolerate toxicity, because, of course, multi agent immunotherapy does have increased toxicity relative to anti PD-1 alone. But we'll have to wait now for the full phase 3 results from the V940 individualized neoantigen therapy. And if those come forward, that will be an extremely attractive approach to think about for patients who did not achieve a major pathological response to neoadjuvant therapy, as well as of course to the other populations of patients with melanoma where we otherwise currently give adjuvant therapy stage 2B all the way through stage 4 resected. It's an amazing time to think about perioperative therapy in melanoma. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So this is clearly outstanding data, outstanding news. Congratulations to the investigators for really doing what is an investigative initiated trial conducted across multiple continents with a huge sample size. So this clearly appears to be, at this point in time at least, a de facto standard. But is this going to be FDA-approved, guideline-approved, or is it possible in your mind? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, that's an interesting question. This study was not designed with the intent to necessarily try to register this treatment regimen with the FDA. One would have to take a step back and say, with how powerful these data appear, it sort of seemed like it would be too bad if that doesn't happen. But all the same, I think the community and those of us who participate in guideline recommendations are fully supportive of this. So, I think we will see this move into compendium listings that support insurance approval, I think, very, very quickly. So, whether or not this actually becomes formally FDA approved or is in the guidelines, I think this should become the standard approach that is considered for patients, again presenting with high-risk stage 3 disease.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Fantastic. So now we're going to go in and talk about a slightly different drug, but also from the melanoma context, and that is the safety and efficacy of RP1 with nivolumab in the context of patients with melanoma who are PD-1 failures. So, this is Abstract 9517. And in this abstract, our academic colleagues essentially talked about these data, and we'll start by describing what RP1 is. RP1 essentially is a HSV-1 based oncolytic immunotherapy. And RP1 expresses GM-CSF as well as a fusogenic protein, GALV-GP-R-. And in this abstract, Dr. Michael Wong from MD Anderson and colleagues are reporting the results of IGNYTE, which is a phase I trial of intratumoral RP1 co-administered with systemic nivolumab in patients with advanced metastatic treatment refractory cutaneous melanoma. And the data presented in this abstract represents data from a registration directed, abbreviated as RD, registration directed cohort of RP1 plus nivolumab in PD-1 refractory melanoma. So, let's start with the description of the cohort.  Dr. Jason Luke: Right. So, in this study, there were a total of 156 patients who were presented, and that included an initial safety and dose finding group of 16, as well as the RD cohort, as you noted, of 140 patients. And it's important to point out that this was a cohort that was selected for a very strict definition of progression on anti PD-1, or a combination immunotherapy as their immediately prior treatment. So, all of the patients in the cohort had exposure to anti PD-1, and 46% of them had anti PD-1 plus anti CTLA4, nivolumab and ipilimumab as their immediately prior therapy. This was also a group of relatively high-risk patients when one considers stage. So, within the stage 4 population, the entry here included 51% who had stage M1B, C, and D melanoma. And that is worth pointing out because this is an injectable therapy. So, trials like this in the past have tended to be biased towards earlier stage, unresectable or metastatic melanoma, meaning stage 3B, 3C, 3D and then stage 4m1a. Again, to emphasize the point here, these were pretreated patients who had a strict definition of anti PD-1 resistance, and over half of them, in fact, had high-risk visceral metastatic disease.  In that context, it's very interesting to observe that the overall response rate was described in the total population, as 31%, and that included 12% who achieved complete response. And so, again, to make sure it's clear, we're talking about a treatment where the oncolytic virus is injected into one or multiple sites of recurrent disease, and then the patients administer nivolumab as per standard. And so, I think these data are quite intriguing. Again, such a high- risk population and their maturity now, with a follow-up of over a year, I think, makes this look to be a very interesting treatment option.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: I guess on that topic of mature follow-up, it probably would be important for us to inform our audience that the top line data for the primary analysis was actually just released, I think, earlier today, and wherein the central confirmed objective response rate was 34% by modified RECIST and 33% by RECIST, clearly indicating that these responses, as you noted, very treatment refractory patient population, these responses were clearly very durable. So, you mentioned that there were responses seen in uninjected visceral lesions, responses seen in both PD-1 and PD-1 CTLA-4 refractory patients. Can you talk a little bit about the response rate in these high-risk subgroups, the uninjected visceral lesions, the patients who had both combination checkpoint and epidural refractory response rate by primary PD-1 resistance.  Dr. Jason Luke: Sure. You know, I think, again, to emphasize this point in the study, we saw that there were responses in the non-injected lesions, and I think it's really important to emphasize that. Some have referred to this as a putative abscopal like effect, similar to what is described in radiation. But it implies that local treatment with the oncolytic virus is triggering a systemic immune response. In the higher risk patient population, we'll note that whereas the overall response rate in PD-1 refractory patients was 34%, in the combination of PD-1 and CTLA-4 refractory patients, the response rate was 26%. So, [this is] still very good. And when we looked at that split by stage, as I alluded to before, in the population of patients that had, what you might call earlier unresectable diseases, so 3B through 4A, the response rate was 38%, and in the stage 4 M1b through M1d, it was 25%. So slightly lower, but still very good. And that would be as expected, because, of course, the patients with visceral metastatic disease have more advanced disease, but those response rates look quite good. Again, looking at the combination refractory population as well as the more high-risk disease. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, clearly, these are very promising data and exciting times for multiple investigators in the field and the company, Replimune, as well. So, what are the next steps? I believe that a registration trial is planned, essentially, looking at this with the goal of trying to get this combination registered. Can you tell us a little bit about IGNYTE-3, the trial design, the control arm, and what you foresee this trial doing over the next couple of years?  Dr. Jason Luke: So, as this agent has been maturing, it's worth pointing out that the company that makes this molecule, called RP1, but I guess now we'll have to get used to this name vusolimogene oderparepvec as the actual scientific term, they have been having ongoing discussions with the FDA, and there is the potential that this agent could come forward on an accelerated path prior to the results being released from a phase 3 trial. That being said, the phase 3 confirmatory study, which is called the IGNYTE-3 study, is in the process of being launched now. And that's a study investigating this molecule in combination with nivolumab, as was alluded to earlier, and a randomized phase 3 design, where that combination is compared with a physician's choice, essentially a chemotherapy-based option.   In that study, it will be 400 patients with stage 3B through stage 4; patients will have progressed on anti PD-1, either as a combination or in sequence, and then come on the study to be randomized to either vusolimogene oderparepvec plus nivolumab versus that physician's choice. And the physician's choice includes chemotherapy agents, but also nivolumab plus relatlimab as another option, or an anti PD-1 monotherapy, if that's deemed to be a reasonable option by the treating investigator. And the primary endpoint of that study is overall survival. And unfortunately, in this highly refractory patient population, that's something that may not take long to identify with key secondary endpoints of progression free survival, as well as overall response rate. I'm quite enthusiastic about this study, given these data, which have now been centrally confirmed as you alluded to before. I think this is a very exciting area of investigation and really crossing my fingers that this may be perhaps the first locally administered therapy which does appear to have a systemic impact that can hold up in phase 3. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Very, very, very exciting results. And I guess it's worthwhile pointing out that this company also has got, I think, multiple studies planned with both RP1 and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma in a solid organ transplant patient population where single agent activity has already been reported by Dr. Migden at prior meetings, as well as a novel trial of potentially RP2 metastatic uveal melanoma. So we'll now pivot to Abstract 6014. So, 6014 is a drug by a company known as Merus. Essentially, it's a very novel agent. Merus essentially is a company that is specialized in making bicyclics and tricyclics. And these are not bicycles or tricycles, but rather drugs that essentially are bispecific antibodies. And Merus essentially has come up with petosemtamab. I think we're going to have to figure out better names for all of these drugs at some point. But petosemtamab, or MCLA-158, essentially is a bicyclic, targeting both EGFR as well as LGR-5. So EGR-5, of course, is a known oncogenic driver in multiple tumor types, squamous, including non small cell lung cancer, cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, but also head and neck squamous cell carcinoma. And LGR-5 essentially is leucine-rich repeat-containing G-protein coupled receptor 5, but it's a receptor in cancer stem cells and certainly highly expressed in head neck squam. And MCLA-158, or petosemtamab is a IgG one bispecific with ADCC-activity because of IgG1 backbone co-targeting EGFR and LGR5. Merus had earlier results that evaluated petosemtamab monotherapy. They defined the RP2D and second- and third-line head and neck blastoma patients with a respectable response rate of 37% investigator-assessed ORR with six months median DoR, and this was published by Ezra Cohen about a year or so ago.  In this abstract, Dr. Fayette and colleagues report on the results of the MCLA-158-CL01 trial, which is a trial of pembrolizumab plus petosemtamab in one front line head and neck squamous cell population. So maybe let's start with the description of the cohort. And it is a small trial, but we'll be able, I think, to dig into a little bit about why this might be exciting. Dr. Jason Luke: Yes. So, as alluded to, it's not the biggest trial as yet, but there were 26 patients with anti PD-1 treatment naive head and neck squamous cell carcinoma. And all the patients in the study did receive, as you alluded to, pembrolizumab plus petosemtamab. Based on the label for pembrolizumab, all the patients in this study were PDL-1 positive. So that's one point that it's worth pointing out to make sure that that's understood. This is the population of patients who would be expected to benefit from pembrolizumab in the first place. Now, in the abstract, they reported out only 10 response evaluable patients, but they updated that in the actual slides of presentation at the meeting. So among 24 patients that were alluded to, 67% were described as having had a response, although some of those were yet to be confirmed responses. And when it was evaluated by PDL-1 status, there didn't seem to be a clear enrichment of response in the PD-1 positive more than 20% group, as compared to the 1-19% group. That isn't especially surprising because that was a trend that one would see, presumably with pembrolizumab alone. But overall, I think these data are pretty exciting in terms of a preliminary study. Dr. Diwakar Davar: You know, you mentioned that the objective response rate was high, almost 60-something%. The prognosis of these patients is generally poor. The OS is typically thought of as between 6-15 months. And based on KEYNOTE-048, which was led by Dr. Burtness and colleagues, the standard of care in the setting is pembrolizumab +/- platinum based chemotherapy regimens. Allowing for the fact that we only have 10 patients here, how do you think these results stack up against KEYNOTE-048? And you made a very important point earlier, which was, by definition, pembro is on label only for the CPS. So PDL-1 score, at least in head and neck squamous cell carcinoma CPS and not TPS. But in the CPS 1% or greater patient population, where pembro is on label, how do these results stack up against the KEYNOTE-048 results. Dr. Jason Luke: Right. KEYNOTE-048 is considered the seminal study that dictates frontline treatment in head and neck cancer. And before we dive into this too far, we do want to acknowledge that here we're comparing 26 patients versus a phase 3 trial. So, we're not trying to get too far ahead of ourselves, but this is just a preliminary comparison. But in KEYNOTE-048, as you alluded to, two regimens were superior to chemotherapy. One was the pembrolizumab monotherapy, as well as pembrolizumab plus chemotherapy. So again, the study overall survival, of course, was much higher, the PDL-1 positive subgroup, which is what dictated the unlabeled use of this. But response to pembro monotherapy in that population of patients is still modest. We're talking about upwards of 20-30%. So, if you compare that to, again, preliminary evidence here from this trial of only 24 patients, that response rate of 60% seems extremely high. And so even if that were to come down somewhat in a larger data series of patients, that still looks to be quite promising as a treatment regimen, that might eventually even be chemotherapy sparing for this population of patients. I think this raises a lot of eyebrows that perhaps this dual targeting approach, EGFR and LDR-5, may bring something really important to the field that evolves it. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, what are the next steps for petosemtamab? You mentioned that the activity was interesting. Are we going to see a larger trial? Any thoughts on where things are going to go?  Dr. Jason Luke: Well, based on the phase 2 data of petosemtamab alone, even without pembrolizumab, the molecule had already been given fast track designation by FDA, which means allowing for greater communication between the drug sponsor in the FDA and designing a seminal study design. One would assume that this trial will be rapidly expanded quite greatly, perhaps to 100 or 200 patients, to try to flush out what the real response rate is in a more meaningful number of patients. But I think these data will probably also trigger the design and probably near-term evaluation or expedited acceleration of a phase III clinical trial design that would potentially validate this against the current standard of care. So, I'm pretty excited. I think we'll see a lot more about this agent in the relatively near future. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, finally, we'll pivot to the last abstract that we're going to talk about, which is Abstract 2504. It's a relatively interesting target, CCR8 monoclonal antibody. But this is the efficacy and safety of LM-108, and LM-108 is an anti CCR8 monoclonal antibody that is being developed by LaNova Medicine. And the results that are described, actually a pool set of results of combinations of LM-108 with anti PD-1, two separate anti PD-1, in patients with gastric cancer, mostly done ex-U.S., which is interesting because of this patient population, and it's a pool result of several, 3 phase 1 and 2 studies.  LM-108 is an Fc-optimized anti CCR8 monoclonal antibody that selectively depletes tumor infiltrating Tregs. The abstract reported a pooled analysis of three phase 1, 2 trials with 3 different NCT numbers that all evaluated the efficacy of LM-108 and anti PD-1 in patients with gastric cancer. So, let's start with the description of the cohort. Maybe, Jason, you can tell us a little bit about before you start, as you describe the cohort, sort of what we know, editorially speaking, about the difficulty with which Tregs depletion has been tried and obviously failed up until now in the tumor microenvironment. Dr. Jason Luke: Right. I think that's a really interesting comment. And so, for decades, in fact, targeting regulatory T-cell to alleviate immune exclusion in the tumor microenvironment has been of interest in immuno-oncology. And in preclinical mouse models, it seems quite clear that such an approach can deliver therapeutic efficacy. However, by contrast, in human clinical trials, various different Treg depleting strategies have been attempted, and there's really little to no evidence that depleting Tregs from human tumors actually can deliver therapeutic responses. And by that we're referring to CD-25 antibodies. The drug ipilimumab, the CTLA-4 antibody, was punitively described as a Tregs depleter preclinically, but that doesn't seem to be the case in patients. And so, in that background, this is quite an eye raiser that an anti CCR8 antibody could be driving this effect. Now, before we talk about the results of this trial, I will point out, however, that given the Fc-optimization, it's entirely possible that the Tregs are being depleted by this mechanism, but that more could also be going on. Because Fc gamma RII binding by this antibody that could be nonspecific also has the potential to trigger immune responses in the tumor microenvironment, probably mediated by myeloid cells. So I think more to come on this. If this turns out to be the first meaningful Tregs depletor that leads to therapeutic efficacy, that would be very interesting. But it's also possible this drug could have multiple mechanisms.  So, having said all of that, in the clinical trial, which was a pooled analysis, like you mentioned, of LM-108 in combination with anti PD-1 of a couple different flavors, there were 48 patients treated either with LM-108, with pembrolizumab, or with toripalimab, which is another anti PD-1 antibody. On the drug combination was, generally speaking, pretty well tolerated, noting grade 3 treatment related adverse events in the range of 38%, which is somewhat expected given combination immunotherapy. We talked about nivolumab and ipilimumab before, which, of course, gives even higher rates of immune-related adverse events, with the most common toxicities being anemia, lipase elevations, rash, ALC decrease; albeit, quite manageable. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, what about the objective response rate? Can you contextualize the efficacy? And as you do that, maybe we'll think about what you'd expect in the context of, say, gastric cancer, especially in patients who've never really had a prior checkpoint inhibitor before. What do you think about the ORR? What do you think about the relative efficacy of this combination? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, so, in the study, they described overall response rate in the 36 patients as 36% and described immediate progression for survival of about 6.5 months. And so that was among patients who were treatment naive. And in second-line patients, they actually described an even higher response rate, although it was only 11 patients, but they're at 64%. And so, I think those data look to be somewhat interesting. When I was actually scrutinizing the actual data presented, it was of some interest to note that the quality of responses seemed to be about as good on the lower dose of LM-108, so 3 milligrams per kilogram as compared to 10 milligrams per kilogram. I think there's definitely more to learn here to try to optimize the dose and to fully understand what the overall efficacy of this treatment combination would be.  I would emphasize that in this disease, I think novel treatment strategies are certainly warranted. While anti PD-1 with chemotherapy has moved the needle in terms of standard of care treatment, it's really only a minor subset of patients who derive durable long-term benefit like we normally associate with immune checkpoint blockade. I think these are preliminary data. They're very intriguing.   You alluded to earlier that this population of patients was an Asian data set, and it is well known that the efficacy of chemotherapy and immunotherapy does appear to be somewhat enhanced in Asian populations, and that goes to distributions of metastasis and tumor microenvironment effects, etc. Very difficult to try to tease any of that out in this abstract, other than to look at these data and suggest that this is pretty interesting, both from a novel therapeutic approach, we talked about the Tregs consideration, but also straight up on the efficacy because I think if these data could hold up in a larger number of patients, and particularly in a western population of patients, I think it would be very intriguing. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Certainly, ASCO 2024 had a lot of interesting data, including data from targeted agents, the LAURA trial, ADCs. But just focusing on the immune therapy subset, we certainly saw a lot of great advances in patients who were treated with neoadjuvant as well as relapse refractory disease in the context of RP1 and then a couple of newer agents such as this petosemtamab as well as LM-108. And of course, we cannot forget to highlight the extended DMFS data from the pembro vaccine study from KEYNOTE-942.  Jason, as always, thank you for taking a little bit of time out of your extremely busy schedule to come and give us insights as to how these agents are impacting the landscape. We really value your input and so thank you very much.  Dr. Jason Luke: Thank you for the opportunity. Dr. Diwakar Davar: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. You will find the links to all the abstracts that we discussed in the transcript of this episode. And finally, if you value the insights that you hear on this podcast, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. So, thank you.   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Follow today's speakers:   Dr. Diwakar Davar   @diwakardavar   Dr. Jason Luke   @jasonlukemd      Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on Twitter   ASCO on Facebook   ASCO on LinkedIn      Disclosures:       Dr. Diwakar Davar:     Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role (Immediate family member): Shionogi    Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, GSK, Merck, Arvus Biosciences, Arcus Biosciences    Research Funding (Inst.): Zucero Therapeutics    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231 Title: COMPOSITIONS AND METHODS FOR TREATING CANCER Applicant: University of Pittsburgh–Of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education Inventors: Diwakar Davar Filing Date: December 11, 2020 Country: United States MCC Reference: 10504-059PV1 Your Reference: 05545; and Application No.: 63/208,719 Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy       Dr. Jason Luke:    Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical, Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX    Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine    Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof)    Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio

En NordicWire, Victor y Guillem han pasado 8 meses probando a promocionar su canal de YouTube mediante clips en diferentes redes sociales, nos cuenta su experiencia. También hablamos de cómo Rubius los promocionó y sobre cómo es tener un podcast de pago. No es asunto vuestro: https://www.noesasuntovuestro.com/ NordicWire: https://www.nordicwire.com/ Documentales: https://guidedoc.tv/ Mumbler: https://mumbler.io/es/ Redes de Iñigo: @viajandosimple

Dr. Diwakar Davar and Dr. Jason Luke discuss key abstracts from the 2024 ASCO Annual Meeting that explore triplet therapy in advanced melanoma, TIL cell therapy in immune checkpoint inhibitor–naive patients, and other novel approaches that could shape the future of immunotherapy in melanoma and beyond.  TRANSCRIPT Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I am your guest host, Dr. Diwakar Davar. I'm an associate professor of medicine and the clinical director of the Melanoma and Skin Cancer Program at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center. I'm delighted to have my friend and colleague, Dr. Jason Luke, on the podcast today to discuss key abstracts in melanoma and immunotherapy that will be featured and highlighted at the 2024 ASCO Annual Meeting. Dr. Luke is an associate professor of medicine, the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutic Center, as well as the associate director for clinical research at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center.  You will find our full disclosures in the transcript of this episode.  Jason, as always, it's a pleasure to have you on this podcast to hear your key insights on trials in the immunotherapy space and melanoma development paradigm, and to have you back on this podcast to highlight some of this work.  Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks so much for the opportunity to participate. I always enjoy this heading into ASCO.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: We're going to go ahead and talk about three abstracts in the melanoma space, and we will be starting with Abstract 9504. Abstract 9504 essentially is the RELATIVITY-048 study. It describes the efficacy and safety of the triplet nivolumab, relatlimab, and ipilimumab regimen in advanced PD-1 naive melanoma. So in this abstract highlighted by Dr. Ascierto and colleagues, they report on the results of this phase 2 trial in this setting. By way of background, PD-1 inhibitors and immune checkpoint inhibitors starting in PD-1 and CTLA-4, as well as PD-1 and LAG-3, are all FDA-approved on the basis of several pivotal phase 3 trials, including KEYNOTE-006, CheckMate-066, CheckMate-067, and most recently, RELATIVITY-047. Jason, can you briefly summarize for this audience what we know about each of these drugs, at least the two combinations that we have at this time?  Dr. Jason Luke: For sure. And of course, these anti PD-1 agents, became a backbone in oncology and in melanoma dating back to more than 10 years ago now, that response rates in the treatment-naive setting to anti PD-1 with either pembrolizumab or nivolumab are roughly in the range of mid-30s to high-40s. And we've seen clinical trials adding on second agents. You alluded to them with the seminal study being CheckMate-067, where we combined a PD-1 antibody and CTLA-4 antibody or nivo + ipi. And there the response rate was increased to approximately 56%. And more recently, we have data combining PD-1 inhibitors with anti-LAG-3. So that's nivolumab and relatlimab. Now, in that trial, RELATIVITY-047, the overall response rate was described as 43%. And so that sounds, on a first pass, like a lower number, of course, than what we heard for nivolumab and ipilimumab. We have to be cautious, however, that the cross-trial comparison between those studies is somewhat fraught due to different patient populations and different study design. So I think most of us think that the response rate or the long-term outcomes between PD-1, CTLA-4, and PD-1 LAG-3 are probably roughly similar, albeit that, of course, we have much better or much longer follow up for the nivo + ipi combo.  The one other caveat to this, of course then, is that the side effect profile of these two combinations is distinct, where the incidence of high-grade immune-related adverse events is going to be roughly half with nivolumab and relatlimab, a combination of what you would see with the nivolumab and ipilimumab. So that has caused a lot of us to try to think about where we would use these different combinations. But we do see that all of these treatments can land a durable long-term response in the subset of patients that do have an initial treatment benefit. The landmark, I think, for the field has been the 7-and-a-half-year median overall survival that we've seen with PD-1 plus CTLA-4, nivo + ipi; of course, we don't have such long-term follow up for PD-1 and LAG-3. But I think that's the setting for thinking about the rationale for combining a triplet regimen of PD-1, CTLA-4, and LAG-3. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, Jason, in your mind, given the difference in the disparity and durability of the responses for the 067 regimen of nivo-ipi, and the RELATIVITY-047 regiment of nivo-rela, what is the standard of care in the U.S., and how does it change in the rest of the world, knowing that nivo-rela is not necessarily approved in all jurisdictions? Dr. Jason Luke: So this is a major complication in our field, is that there is perhaps not complete agreement across the world in terms of what the frontline standard of care should be. I think most United States investigators, or those of us that really treat melanoma most of the time, would suggest that a combination regimen, given the enhanced response rate and longer-term outcomes, should be the consideration for the majority of patients. In fact, in my practice, it's hard to think of who I would treat with a monotherapy PD-1 approach in the PD-1 naive setting. So either nivo + ipi or nivo + rela. As you alluded to however, in other regulatory settings throughout the world, combinations might not actually even be approved at this point. So PD-1 monotherapy would be the backbone of that setting. It does set up some complications when you think about a comparator arm; say you were going to look at various combinations, probably PD-1 monotherapy would be the worldwide comparator. You have to understand though, in the United States, I think that that's a less attractive option. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So in RELATIVITY-047, Dr. Ascierto and his colleagues are looking at generating a triplet. And in this case, they looked at this in the context of frontline metastatic melanoma, 46 patients. Very interestingly, the dose of ipilimumab studied here was 1 mg/kg through 8 weeks, not the 3 mg/kg every three weeks times four doses using 067, or even the low dose ipilimumab regimen that you studied in the second line setting, which was 1 mg/kg every 3 weeks for 4 doses. So let's talk about the results and specifically the implications of potentially studying lower doses of ipi. Dr. Jason Luke: I appreciate you raising that point. I think it's really important as we think about this dataset because this triplet regimen is not by any means the only version of a triplet that could be developed using these agents. So just to give the high-level numbers from the abstract, we see from these data that the overall response rate is described as 59% and 78%, a disease control rate with patients having an unreached link. So duration of response of unreached, and then the progression-free survival at about 5 months. So those are really interesting data. But as was alluded to, it's not totally clear to me that that's the best that we could do with this regimen.   Now, you alluded to this low-dose ipilimumab schedule at 1 mg/kg every 8 weeks, and it's really important to note that we have no benchmark for that regimen in melanoma oncology. And in fact, the one study that used that regimen, which was the adjuvant study of nivolumab and ipilimumab, known as CheckMate915, is in fact the only immune checkpoint inhibitor study in melanoma oncology that was actually negative. That study noted no benefit to adding ipilimumab at 1 mg/kg every 8 weeks on top of nivolumab, again, the adjuvant setting. So it's a little bit curious to then understand what it means in this study to have that amount of ipilimumab added to the rela-nivo backbone. And that manifests in a few different ways. We see the response rate here at 59%. Again, if you compare that just against the standard nivo + ipi dosing schedule, it's about the same. So is that really an advantage to having the triplet as compared to just doing standard nivo + ipi?   We do see that it manifests in a slightly lower rate of grade 3/4 immune-related adverse events, at 39%. That's a little bit lower than what we'd expect for standard nivo + ipi. But again, I think that that emphasizes to me the possibility that some efficacy was left on the table by using this very low dose ipilimumab regimen. I think that's really a concern. It's not clear to me that these triplet data really differentiate from what we'd expect with the already approved regimen of nivo + ipi. Therefore, it makes it difficult to think about how would we really want to move this regimen forward, or should there be more work done about dose and schedule to optimize how we might want to do this?  Dr. Diwakar Davar: As far as triplet therapy in the context of frontline metastatic melanoma, meaning triplet immune therapy, because there are at least several targeted therapy triplets that are FDA-approved, [but] not necessarily widely utilized. How would you summarize the future for triplet therapy? Do you think it's potentially attractive? Do you think it's very attractive with some caveats? Dr. Jason Luke: Well, I think it's attractive, and we have 3 independently active agents. And so I do think it's a priority for the field to try to figure out how we could optimize the therapy. We've had such a revolution in melanoma oncology, talking about 7.5-year median survival from CheckMate-067, but that still implies that 7.5 years, half the patients have passed away. There's more to do here. And so I do think it should be a priority to sort this out. I guess I would be cautious, though, about advancing this regimen directly to a phase 3 trial because it doesn't seem clear to me that this is optimized in terms of what the outcome could be. If we're willing to tolerate higher rates of toxicity from other dose schedules of nivo-ipi alone, then I think we should do a little bit more here to potentially explore the space that might be possible to increase that overall response rate a little more without getting into a completely exaggerated toxicity profile that would be unacceptable. So, I do think it's exciting, but there's possibly more to do before really think about going big time with this. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Great. So now we'll switch gears and move from frontline metastatic melanoma to the second line and beyond looking at a new agent and contextualizing the effects of that actually in the frontline settings. So Abstract 9505 describes the efficacy and safety of lifileucel, which is essentially autologous tumor-infiltrating lymphocyte cell therapies, also known as TIL, in combination with pembrolizumab in patients with ICI naive, so not necessarily pretreated, but ICI naive metastatic or unresectable melanoma. This is data from the IOV-COM-202 Cohort 1A oral abstract presented by Dr. Thomas and colleagues. In this abstract, Dr. Thomas and colleagues are presenting data from the 1A cohort, which is the phase 2 portion of the frontline trial that is evaluating autologous TIL with pembro in checkpoint inhibited naive metastatic melanoma.  By way of background, TIL is FDA approved on the basis of several cohorts from a phase 2 trial. The data has been presented multiple times now by Drs. Sarli, Chesney, and multiple colleagues of ours. And essentially autologous TIL, which is generated from a surgical procedure in which a patient undergoes a surgery to extract a tumor from which T cells are then grown after ex vivo expansion and rapid expansion protocol. The entire procedure was essentially pioneered by several colleagues at the NCI, primarily Dr. Steve Rosenberg, and this approach produces objective response rates of approximately 31% to 36%. And the most recent publication demonstrated that at median follow up of approximately 2 years, the median duration of response was not reached. The median OS was about 14 months and PFS was about 4 months or so. So, can you contextualize the results of the abstract in the frontline setting? And then we'll talk a little bit about where we think this is going to go. Dr. Jason Luke: So I think this is a timely study given the recent approval. And in the abstract presented here, we see an early data cut from the PD-1 naive study, as you alluded to. So here we had 22 patients and distributed across various states of advanced melanoma. Ten out of the 22 had M1C, but there also were smatterings of earlier M1A and M1B at 18.2% and 9.1%. So this is important, as we think who the treatment population is that's going to be optimized with a TIL procedure. The median sum of diameters, meaning how much tumor burden the patients have, was about 5.5cm, and I'll note that that's a relatively modest amount of tumor burden, albeit not that unusual for an early-stage trial. So of the patients that participated, 8 had BRAF mutations so that's 36%. That's not that high, but it's reasonable. And I think the important overlying number, the response rate so far in the study, with about 17 months of follow up, was 63.6%, and that includes 22% or 23% having complete response. So those are interesting data.  And another point that was made in the abstract, which we've all seen, is that responses to TIL, all of immunotherapy but especially TIL, do seem to mature over time, meaning they deepen over time. So it's possible the response rate could go up some extent as we watch this study advance. So I think these are exciting data on some level. Also, a 63.6% response rate sounds pretty impressive, but we do have to put that in the context of a double checkpoint blockade, which we just got done discussing, gives you almost a 60% response rate, 59% response rate. So then the question really is: Is it worth the amount of effort that we could go into generating a TIL product in a treatment naive patient, and put them through the lymphodepletion that is associated with TIL and the high dose interleukin 2 treatment that accompanies the reinfusion of the TIL, if you're going to get a response rate that's roughly the same as what you would get if you gave them off the shelf nivo plus ipilimumab?  At this point it's a little bit hard to know the answer to that question. I think it could be possible that the answer is yes, because we don't know exactly which populations or patients are most likely to benefit from each of these therapies. And if it could be teased out who's not going to benefit to nivo + ipi from the get-go, then of course, we would want to offer them a therapy that has that frontline potential, durable, long-term response. But I have to say, on a one-to-one with TIL therapy, you get a lot of toxicity initially with the treatment; with nivo + ipi on the back end, you get a fair amount of toxicity with the treatment. How are we going to judge those two things? And I think we probably need a larger dataset to really have a good handle on that.  So these are interesting early data, but it's not totally clear to me that even if this holds up all the way through the trial, and we're going to talk about the design of the registration trial here in a second, a 60% response rate on its own without further biomarker stratification is a little bit hard for me to see in clinical practice why we would want to do that, given we can already just go off the shelf and give checkpoint inhibitors. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So that brings us to TILVANCE-301. So TILVANCE is a phase 3 trial. It's a registration intent trial by our Iovance colleagues evaluating the pembro-TIL regimen versus pembrolizumab alone. So in this phase 3 trial, approximately 670 patients will be randomized to either arm A, which is lifileucel + pembro. And in this arm A, patients are going to be getting lifileucel with the tumor resection, non-myeloablative lymphoid depletion, the lifileucel and abbreviated course of high-dose IL-2, and thereafter, continued pembro for the study mandated duration versus arm B, where patients will be getting just pembrolizumab monotherapy per label. Arm B patients, per the design, may cross over to receive TIL monotherapy at the time of central-blinded, radiology-confirmed disease progression.   The study design otherwise is fairly routine and, per most of our registration trials these days, patients have actually been permitted to receive neoadjuvant and adjuvant therapy, including checkpoint inhibitors, as long as the receipt of the therapy was more than 6 months prior to the inclusion of the patient in that registration trial. The dual primary efficacy endpoints as stated are BICR-assessed objective response rate as well as PFS, and the key secondary endpoint is overall survival.   So Jason, what are your thoughts on the study design and potentially the regulatory implications, particularly given, one, the control arm of pembro monotherapy, and two, the role of TIL crossover to receive TIL monotherapy at the time of BICR mandated progression for arm B? Dr. Jason Luke: So this goes to a few points that we've touched on already in the discussion here. When we think about the primary endpoints for this study, with one of them being overall response rate, one has to assume that that's a given that they would get that. I feel like that's a low bar. And we go back to that cross-trial comparison. If their results end up being that the response rates are about 60%, I don't know that that differentiates necessarily from what's already available in the field with combination immune checkpoint blockade. For the purposes of the study that would mean it's a positive study, so I think that would probably be good. But again, the comparator to pembrolizumab monotherapy, I think some of us would argue, isn't really consistent with what we would do with a patient in our clinic. So it's not that it's bad per se, but I think there's going to be a whole lot of cross-trial comparison. So if the study is positive, that would be good for getting the drug available. It's still a bit hard though, based on the preliminary data that I've seen, to imagine how this would have uptake in terms of utilization as a frontline therapy.  You alluded to the crossover, and I think there, the assumption is that patients who get TIL therapy as a second line perhaps would have an attenuated benefit. But I'm not sure that's really true. It certainly looks from the data that we have, like the patients who benefit most from TIL are going to be those who didn't respond to anti PD-1 in the front line. So I'm not sure how much difference there's going to be between first- and second-line TIL therapy, but those data will kind of wait to be seen. So I think it's an important study. Of course, the accelerated approval of TIL as a later line therapy is dependent on this trial being positive. So there is some risk that if this trial ended up not being positive, that that could have regulatory implications on the utility or availability of TILs, a subsequent line therapy. But all of these, I guess we'll have to wait to see the results. We do hope for a positive trial here, although I think it'll be nuanced to sort of interpret those data given that pembrolizumab monotherapy control arm.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Fantastic. So we've learned a lot about TIL, both its use in the second-line setting and this very exciting but potentially risky frontline trial that is ongoing at some centers in the United States and certainly a lot of ex-U.S. enrollment.   So we'll now pivot to a related product which actually belongs to a much larger class of agents that are antigen specific T-cell therapies in a variety of different formats. And that is Abstract 9507, which is the “Phase 1 safety and efficacy of IMC-F106C, a PRAME × CD3 ImmTAC bispecific, in post-checkpoint cutaneous melanoma (CM).” Now, in this abstract, Dr. Omid Hamid and colleagues reported the results of this phase 1 trial. As a disclosure, I'm an investigator and the last author on this manuscript. Jason, it would be important for our audience, for us to maybe firstly, outline the PRAME as a target, and then the ImmTAC as a platform prior to discussing these results. So let's start with the target PRAME, which I think is a target that you know well. So why don't you start with the target and we'll talk a little bit about that and then the platform? Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, so I think for the audience, being aware of PRAME, or the Preferentially Expressed Antigen in Melanoma, is going to be quite important moving into the future. So PRAME as a therapeutic target is a cancer testis antigen that's overexpressed in tumor tissues. And of course the name has melanoma in it, but it's not uniquely present in melanoma. So the expression patterns of PRAME as a target are very high in melanoma. So in cutaneous disease, this is upwards of almost 100%, somewhere between 95% and 100%, in metastatic melanoma tissues. And PRAME has several different roles on a molecular level, although I don't think for our purposes here, it's so much important to be aware of them, but rather that this is a very highly expressed target, which then can make it attractive for using T cell receptor-based therapies. And so in the case we're talking about here on the ImmTAC platform, that's a CD3 PRAME×CD3 bispecific approach. But of course there are other approaches that can also be taken, such as TCR T cells that directly go after PRAME itself. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Let's now talk about the platform and how it differs from some of the other antigen targeting platforms that you have just alluded to. I think the Immtac platform is basically a fusion protein comprising engineered TCRs with a CD3 specific short chain variable fragment. And then the engineered TCR therefore binds antigens in an HLA dependent fashion. But you know quite a lot about some of these alternative platforms, and I think it'll be important to contextualize for the audience the difference between ImmTAC, which is a prototype drug that is already approved in the context of tebentafusp. But how does this differ from some of the other more nuanced platforms, such as the Immatics TCR or TCR platform and TScan TCRT nanoplasmonic platform.  Dr. Jason Luke: Right. So the ImmTAC platform as alluded to is already approved on the market with tebentafusp, which is the gp100-CD3 bispecific molecule. And the advantage of that approach is infusion off the shelf of a drug. The downside of it is that it is a weekly dosing strategy as it stands now. And there are some complicated disease kinetics associated with treatment response, which we'll come back to in the context of the PRAME bispecific. Those are, in contrast with T-cell receptor-transduced T cells, as an alternative strategy, which is a form of adopted cell transfer. So we just got done talking about TIL therapy, which of course, is trying to take lymphocytes out of the tumor and grow them up and then give them back. Here with TCR-transduced T cells, we're talking about taking leukopak from the blood and then using different transfection approaches to try to insert into the lymphocytes of the patient a T cell receptor that recognizes to a certain cancer antigen, in this case, PRAME.  So you alluded to a couple of different companies that have different platforms to do this. Immatics has a molecule called IMA 203, for which there have been data disclosed in the past year, again showing some very interesting responses in patients who have highly refractory melanoma. That process, though, again, does require lymphodepletion before you reinfuse the cells. Again, in contrast, the ImmTAC, which is an off the shelf revenue administer, there you have to make the product and then bring the patient back, lymphodeplete, and give the cells back. Immatics platform uses a viral transfection vector. The T scan approach that you alluded to before uses an approach of a mixed system on multiple HLA backgrounds to try to get past HLA-A*02:01 only, and in this case, uses a plasmid-based transfection syndrome that perhaps can be more broadly utilized given the lack of a lentiviral vector.   So this is a complicated area of technology that starts to get into immune engineering, and I think for the purposes of this discussion, we don't want to belabor it. But both of these technologies, talking about the CD3 bispecific with the off the shelf aspect of it and the adoptive cell transfer, each of these using a T cell receptor-based therapy to try to go after PRAME, I think have very high upsides, and I think we'll initially see it in melanoma over the next year or so. But this is likely to be relevant to multiple tumor types beyond melanoma.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: So let's discuss the results of this phase 1 trial. IMC-F106C, like all other ImmTAC, is administered intravenously and does require step-up dosing. You alluded to the fact that the tebentafusp was approved, and it's one of those drugs that is fortunately otherwise administered weekly, which can be difficult for the patient and requires at least the patient spend the first 3 doses overnight under some kind of monitoring, whether it's in the hospital or extended outpatient monitoring, for at least 23 hours. The efficacy of this agent and this platform appears to be surprising in that you tend to see a relatively low RECIST response rate. We'll have you comment a little bit on why that is the case and what may be the role of ctDNA, as opposed to conventional RECIST in assessing response.   At least in this trial, they mandated pre-testing, but did not require it for study enrollment. And pre-positivity was defined using immunohistochemistry with a relatively low H-score of 1%. And the molecular response definition was a 0.5 log or a 68% ctDNA reduction just prior to the first imaging assessment. So how do you contextualize the results? But maybe before you talk a little bit about the results, the ctDNA aspect, that was a recent publication by Drs. Rich Carvajal, Alex Shoushtari, and I think you are also involved in that.  Dr. Jason Luke: So, I think an interesting observation around tebentafusp has been that ctDNA may be a better predictor of long-term outcomes. And how you define ctDNA response is still something that the field is grappling with, albeit that I think is going to be an important consideration as we think about these novel therapies, these ImmTACs and other CD3 engagers moving into the future. But for the purposes of the abstract here, we see that in the population of patients treated, there were 46 patients with cutaneous melanoma. The majority got monotherapy with IMC-F106C, and that's the PRAME bispecific. So 40 patients that got monotherapy and six who got a combination with checkpoint inhibitor. All these patients had prior treatment with immunotherapy, and most of them had PD-1 and CTLA-4 antibody with a small spanner that also had BRAF inhibitors.  In terms of that PRAME testing that you alluded to, based on the immunohistochemistry H-score greater than 1%, 35 out of 40 patients were positive, so they defined 5 as negative. And we could come back if we have time, but there are other ways to do PRAME testing as well that I think may become unique for different agents, maybe an important biomarker. In the data, 31 out of the 46 patients were RECIST evaluable. The outcomes of those patients were to note that the response rate was 13%, which was four partial responses. But 35% of patients had tumor regression with a disease control rate at 65%. It was clear that there was an enrichment by PRAME positivity for both progression free and overall survival. So those patients who had obvious positivity essentially had a doubling of the PFS and more than the doubling of the OS, 2.1 to 4.1 months for TFS and landmark OS, 40% to 94%. So I think these are quite intriguing data.  It does suggest that for the vast majority of patients, we do see some induction of the antitumor effect, albeit that RECIST might undercall the effect. And so this may become another area where the ctDNA monitoring might be able to help us to understand who is likely to have really long-term benefit from this therapy. And given the number of emerging treatments that we have for melanoma, we might be able to really focus in on that group of patients in terms of optimizing how we would use this drug moving into the future. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So you talked about a response rate, and at first glance, this response rate is a little underwhelming. We're talking about 4 out of 31 RECIST evaluable patients, 13%. So it's in the double digits, but barely. So how enthusiastic are you about the results? How does it contrast with at least the publicly known data from other brain targeting approaches, such as the IMA203 agent, understanding that while they may be all targeting somewhat the same target, they are actually extraordinarily different platforms. One's off the shelf, one's highly customized. How do you contextualize the results? How would it contrast with other cellular approaches?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think it's important, again, to emphasize the point you made, which is that they're very different kinds of treatments. So even though they both target PRAME, they're going to be differently useful, and they could be quite useful for different groups of patients. And so here we see that there is a subfraction of patients who are deriving long-term benefit. And we commonly have an argument in our field about, is overall response rate really a useful monitor that describes a patient-centric outcome? While, of course, patients like to know their tumors are shrinking, what they want the most is for the tumors not to get worse and for them not to pass away from cancer. So I think I'm enthusiastic about these results, but emphasizing the point that we need to better understand who is going to benefit the most from this CD3 bispecific PRAME approach and how we're going to be able to harness that into long term benefit for patients because there's no doubt that an off the shelf therapy has a high degree of value relative to adoptive cell transfer, which sort of requires a big wind up.   So when you say, what does it contrast with? Well, the data for IMA203 has shown more than a 50% response rate in patients with more than 5 lines of therapy for metastatic disease. That really looks quite exciting. And several of those patients are now out for quite an extended period, meaning 2 years or more given only a single dose of IMA203. But again, the caveat being, you have to make the cell product for the patient, and that takes time. You lymphodeplete the patient, not all patients can tolerate that in the refractory disease setting, and then they have to be able to tolerate the reinfusion of the cells. And so this drug, IMC-F106C, looks very promising. Moving into the earlier phase trial that we'll talk about, I think the TCR T cell program has a lot of upsides for patients, especially with refractory disease. And so I think these two different approaches are really on parallel tracks. They both target PRAME, but I don't think they necessarily need to be compared one to one, as if they're going to go head-to-head with each other. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So now we'll talk a little bit about the frontline setting, because on the basis of some of these results, Immunocore is now exploring IMC-F106C frontline melanoma. This trial is actually being presented as a trial in progress at this meeting by Georgina Long and colleagues. Some of us are co-authors in that abstract. And in this study, HLA-A*02:01 positive patients with advanced unresectable melanoma will be randomized one to one to the combination of IMC-F106C, which actually, I think after this meeting will be known as bre-ni in combination with nivolumab versus nivolumab regimens, which will either be nivo or nivo-rela, investigators choice and likely dependent on region. So what do you think of the challenge of this trial? We talked about some of the challenges of the TILVANCE trial earlier. But what is going to be the challenge of this trial and in this setting, particularly given the response rates that we've seen so far? Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, so, similar to comments we had before, thinking about what the optimal control arm is for a study like this is difficult, and so that'll be important as we think about interpreting the results. One has to assume for the purpose of this conversation that it is a positive trial, and that adding the PRAME bispecific theory does lead to an improvement in progression free survival relative to those in checkpoint alone approaches. And I think the magnitude of that difference is going to be of some relevance. And then I think importantly, also figure out who needs this treatment and who's going to benefit long term are going to be really important considerations.  We alluded to how this drug requires an intensive dosing period at the get go, and so telling patients that they need to come in weekly or bi-weekly initially for some number of weeks before they switch to a longer-term intermittent regimen, that comes with real world considerations for patients, their families, their finances, etc. So the benefit has to be clearly obvious that makes it worthwhile doing that, again, because a default could be giving drugs that we've had for 10 years with the nivolumab and ipilimumab. So there's going to be a lot of cross-trial comparison that is going to necessarily have to take place here to think about what these results really mean in the context of other available therapies.  I think the study is reasonable to do. I think this is a very active agent. There's no doubt there's a subset of patients who seem to benefit a lot from it. And I would just emphasize the point that that's probably going to be the most important thing to really drill down on is under the assumption there's a positive trial, we need to know who those people are so we could optimize giving this kind of a treatment to them. Dr. Diwakar Davar: I guess one important point to underscore what Jason said about potential predictive biomarkers, I think as part of the presentation, Dr. Hamid and colleagues will be talking about a candidate predictive biomarker of this agent, which is potentially class specific and not necessarily agent specific of a T cell signature that potentially could define patients who are more likely to benefit from this agent.  So, Jason, as always, thank you for sharing your expertise and insights with the team today. We certainly look forward to catching up again for our wrap up episode after the annual meeting where we'll talk about some of the data that we could not talk about, particularly the late breaking abstracts and other key advances that will shape the future of, certainly the field of immunotherapy and melanoma, potentially the field of cancer immunotherapy at large. Dr. Jason Luke: Oh, thanks very much for the opportunity. Dr. Diwakar Davar: And thank you to our listeners today. You'll find the links to the abstracts discussed today in the transcript of this episode. And finally, if you value the insights that you hear on this podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. So thank you, and we'll see you soon.   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Follow today's speakers:   Dr. Diwakar Davar   @diwakardavar   Dr. Jason Luke   @jasonlukemd      Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on Twitter   ASCO on Facebook   ASCO on LinkedIn      Disclosures:       Dr. Diwakar Davar:     Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role (Immediate family member): Shionogi    Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, GSK, Merck, Arvus Biosciences, Arcus Biosciences    Research Funding (Inst.): Zucero Therapeutics    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231 Title: COMPOSITIONS AND METHODS FOR TREATING CANCER Applicant: University of Pittsburgh–Of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education Inventors: Diwakar Davar Filing Date: December 11, 2020 Country: United States MCC Reference: 10504-059PV1 Your Reference: 05545; and Application No.: 63/208,719 Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy       Dr. Jason Luke:    Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical, Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX    Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine    Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof)    Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio      

Doctors Vamsi Velcheti, Sandip Patel, and Michael Zervos discuss recent updates on the management of early-stage non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC), including the optimization of neoadjuvant and adjuvant treatment options for patients and the role of surgery in the era of targeted therapy and immuno-oncology in lung cancer. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: Hello, I'm Dr. Vamsi Velcheti, your guest host for the ASCO Daily News Podcast today. I am a professor of medicine and director of thoracic medical oncology at the Perlmutter Cancer Center at NYU Langone Health. On today's episode, we'll be discussing recent updates on the management of early-stage non-small cell lung cancer (NSCLC), including the optimization of neoadjuvant and adjuvant treatment options for our patients, and the evolving role of surgery in the era of targeted therapy and immuno-oncology in lung cancer.  Today, I am delighted to be joined by two renowned experts in this space, Dr. Sandip Patel and Dr. Michael Zervos. Dr. Patel is a professor of medicine and a medical oncologist specializing in lung cancer at UCSD. Dr. Mike Zervos is the clinical chief of the Division of Robotic Thoracic Surgery and Director of General Thoracic Surgery at NYU Langone. Our full disclosures are available in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures relating to all episodes of the podcast are available at asco.org/DNpod. Dr. Patel and Dr. Zervos, it's a great honor to have you on the podcast today. Welcome aboard. Dr. Sandip Patel: Great to be joining you.  Dr. Vamsi Velcheti:  Let's get started with Dr. Patel. As you know, over the last decade we've had dramatic advances in systemic therapy options for patients with metastatic non-small cell lung cancer, in both the realms of targeted therapy and immunotherapy. These have significantly improved outcomes for our patients with metastatic lung cancer. What's exciting is that more recently, we've seen the incorporation of these agents, both targeted therapies and immunotherapies, in early-stage non-small cell lung cancer. Dr. Patel, can you tell our listeners about these exciting recent advances and why do you think it's so important to incorporate these personalized systemic therapy options for our early-stage patients? Dr. Sandip Patel: I think it's a great point and a great question. And so, I think one thing to understand is that non-small cell lung cancer is actually multiple diseases. We give it one name based on how it looks under the microscope, but the vast majority of our advances to improve outcomes for patients have come from our ability to understand specific subgroups.  Many of our therapies have had activity in the advanced setting. We have our patients with metastatic or more widespread disease, which naturally led to the thought that could we utilize these therapies in earlier stage disease and potentially increase the rate of cure for many of our patients, lung cancer being the most common cancer killer worldwide. And so to your point, trying to understand how to best treat a patient really involves personalized medicine, typically driven by understanding the genomic profile of their tumor and two of the genes that have graduated from being tested for in the metastatic setting and now in the localized setting are EGFR and ALK. And these in particular are mutations that confer sensitivity to small molecule inhibitors, EGFR with osimertinib, ALK in the localized setting with alectinib based on the data that we've seen.  And so, one of the areas that's been particularly exciting is our ability to maximize a patient's chance for durable remissions by integrating these therapies after surgery, after chemotherapy when appropriate, and continuing generally for a finite amount of time, two to three years depending on the agent in the study we're discussing for these patients. Additionally, immunotherapy, which has revolutionized our treatment of patients with metastatic disease, may be particularly well-suited for the localized setting of non-small cell lung cancer as well. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: Excellent points, Sandip. You're absolutely right, in the metastatic setting, we've all come to accept molecular testing, sequencing, and biomarker profiling as a standard, but unfortunately, that hasn't quite yet percolated into the early-stage setting. Can you talk about some of the challenges that we face as we have these therapeutic options available now for more early-stage patients? Dr. Sandip Patel: So, I think there are 3 flavors of localized therapy in non-small cell lung cancer. One is the advanced, unresectable stage 3, for which the approach is often concurrent chemo-radiation followed by some form of consolidated therapy. We're about to hear the results of LAURA, which is the study looking at EGFR-mutated non-small cell lung cancer.  For other patients, historically, the treatment has been durvalumab, an anti-PD-L1 directed immunotherapy. The other two are operative treatment of localized cancer: adjuvant treatment after surgery, or neoadjuvant or perioperative, in which chemoimmunotherapy begins before surgery. And testing depends on the settings. For the stage 3 patient who's likely getting concurrent chemo-radiation, they may have a very small amount of tissue, and so often these are done by pulmonary EBUS biopsies and that's how we pathologically confirm that advanced stage 3B. There may not be a lot of tissue available for molecular testing. In fact, if you look at the PACIFIC analysis, just looking at PD-L1, which is just an IHC off a single slide, a third of patients weren't able to even get a PD-L1, let alone a genomic result. And so, I think that's one of the areas of LAURA that's going to be particularly interesting to see as we try to implement it into our practice after seeing the full data.  I think in the adjuvant setting, we're lucky because our surgeons, Dr. Mike Zervos here, will get us a large amount of tissue in the surgical resection specimen, so we tend to get enough tissue to do genomics while they're under chemotherapy, there tends to be time to wait for their genomic result. Where this really gets complicated is in the neoadjuvant or perioperative setting, where time is everything.  The most important thing we can do for a patient in the localized space is get them to the operating room, get them started on radiation, their curative local modality, and that's where we have a time pressure but also a sample pressure because that is a diagnostic biopsy. It's a very small piece of tissue. Initially, there are multiple stains that have to be done to identify this lung cancer as opposed to another tumor. And so that's an area that I think we're going to need additional approaches given that cell-free DNA tends to have lower yield in lower stage disease in giving us a result. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: Great points, Sandip. How do you deal with this issue in San Diego? The challenge is now we have a lot of trials, we'll talk about those neoadjuvant immunotherapy trials, but we know that immunotherapy may not be as effective in all patients, especially those with EGFR or ALK or some of these non-smoker, oncogene-driven tumors. So, we don't want to be giving patients treatments that may not necessarily be effective in the neoadjuvant space, especially when there is a time crunch, and we want to get them to surgery and all the complications that come with giving them targeted therapy post-IO with potential risk for adverse events. Dr. Sandip Patel: Absolutely. It is a great point. And so, the multidisciplinary team approach is key, and having a close relationship with the interventional pulmonary oncs, interventional radiology surgery, and radiation oncology to ensure that we get the best treatment for our patients. With the molecularly guided therapies, they are currently more on the adjuvant setting in terms of actually treating. But as you mentioned, when we're making a decision around neoadjuvant or perioperative chemo IO, it's actually the absence of EGFR now that we're looking for because our intervention at the current time is to give chemoimmunotherapy. Going back to the future, we used to use single gene EGFR within 24 hours, which was insufficient for a metastatic panel, but it often required five slides of tissue input. ALK can be done by IHC, and so some of these ‘oldie but goodie' pathologic techniques, and that pathologists, if I haven't emphasized, understanding what we're trying to do at a different context is so key because they are the ones who really hold the result. In the neoadjuvant and perioperative setting, which many of us favor, especially for stage 3A and stage 2B disease, understanding how we can get that result so that we can get the patient to the operating room in an expeditious way is so important. There is a time pressure that we always had in the metastatic setting, but I think we feel much more acutely in the neoadjuvant and perioperative setting in my opinion. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: Fascinating insights, Dr. Patel.  Turning to Dr. Zervos, from a surgical perspective, there has been an evolution in terms of minimally invasive techniques, robotic approaches, and enhanced recovery protocols, significantly improving outcomes in our patients post-surgery. How do you see the role of surgery evolving, especially with the increasing complexity and efficacy of these systemic therapies? How do you envision the role of surgery in managing these early-stage patients, and what are the key considerations for surgeons in this new era? Dr. Michael Zervos: Thanks, Vamsi. Thanks, Sandip. Thank you for having me on the podcast. Obviously, it's an honor to be a part of such a high-level discussion. I have to say, from a surgeon's perspective, we often listen to you guys talk and realize that there's been a lot of change in this landscape. And I think the thing that I've seen is that the paradigm here has also changed. If we were having this discussion 10 years ago, a lot of the patients that I am operating on now, I would not be operating on. It really has been amazing. And I think the thing that stands out to me the most is how all of this has changed with neoadjuvant chemotherapy checkpoint inhibition. I think, for us as surgeons, that's really been the key. Whether it's CheckMate 816 or whatever you're following, like PACIFIC, the data supports this. And I think what we're seeing is that we're able to do the surgery, we're able to do it safely, and I think that the resectability rates are definitely high up there in the 90% range. And what we're seeing is pretty significant pathologic responses, which I think is really amazing to me.  We're also seeing that this has now shifted over to the oligometastatic realm, and a lot of those patients are also being treated similarly and then getting surgery, which is something that we would not have even thought of ever. When you look at the trials, I think a lot of the surgery, up to this point, has been done more traditionally. There's a specific reason why that happens, specifically, more through thoracotomy, less with VATS, and less with robotic. Sandip, I think you guys have a pretty robust robotic program at UCSD, so I'm sure you're pretty used to seeing that.   As you guys have become so much more sophisticated with the treatments, we have also had to modify what we do operatively to be able to step up to the plate and accept that challenge. But what we are seeing is yes, these treatments work, but the surgeries are slightly more complicated. And when I say slightly, I'm minimizing that a little bit.  And what's complicated about it is that the treatment effect is that the chemo-immune check inhibition actually has a significant response to the tumor antigen, which is the tumor. So it's going to necrose it, it's going to fibrose it, and wherever there is a tumor, that response on the surgical baseline level is going to be significant. In other words, there are going to be lymph nodes that are stuck to the pulmonary artery, lymph nodes that are stuck to the airway, and we've had to modify our approaches to be able to address that.   Now, fortunately, we've been able to innovate and use the existing technology to our advantage. Personally, I think robotics is the way we have progressed with all this, and we are doing these surgeries robotically, mainly because I think it is allowing us, not only to visualize things better, but to have sort of a better understanding of what we're looking at. And for that matter, we are able to do a better lymph node dissection, which is usually the key with a lot of these more complicated surgeries, and then really venturing out into more complicated things, like controlling the pulmonary artery. How do we address all this without having significant complications or injuries during the surgery? Getting these patients through after they've successfully completed their neoadjuvant treatment, getting them to surgery, doing the surgery successfully, and hopefully, with minimal to no morbidity, because at the end, they may be going on to further adjuvant treatment. All of these things I think are super important. I think although it has changed the landscape of how we think of things, it has made it slightly more complicated, but we are up for the challenge. I am definitely excited about all of this. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: For some reason, like medical oncologists, we only get fixated on the drugs and how much better we're doing, but we don't really talk much about the advances in surgery and the advances in terms of outcomes, like post-op mortality has gone down significantly, especially in larger tertiary care centers. So, our way of thinking, traditionally, the whole intergroup trials, the whole paradigm of pneumonectomies being bad and bad outcomes overall, I think we can't judge and decide on current treatment standards based on surgical standards from decades ago. And I think that's really important to recognize.  Dr. Michael Zervos: All of this stuff has really changed over the past 10 years, and I think technology has helped us evolve over time. And as the science has evolved for you with the clinical trials, the technology has evolved for us to be able to compensate for that and to be able to deal with that. The data is real for this. Personally, what I'm seeing is that the data is better for this than it was for the old intergroup trials. We're able to do the surgery in a better, more efficient, and safer way. The majority of these surgeries for this are not going to be pneumonectomies, they are going to be mostly lobectomies. I think that makes sense. I think for the surgeons who might be listening, it doesn't really matter how you're actually doing these operations. I think if you don't have a very extensive minimally invasive or robotic experience, doing the surgery as open is fine, as long as you're doing the surgery safely and doing it to the standard that you might expect with complete lymph node clearance, mediastinal lymph node clearance, and intrapulmonary lymph node clearance. Really, I think that's where we have to sort of drive home the point, really less about the actual approach, even though our bias is to do it robotically because we feel it's less morbidity for the patient. The patients will recover faster from the treatment and then be able to go on to the next phase treatments. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: In some of the pre-operative trials, the neoadjuvant trials, there have been some concerns raised about 20% of patients not being able to make it to surgery after induction chemo immunotherapy. Can you comment on that, and why do you think that is the case, Sandip?  Dr. Sandip Patel: Well, I think there are multiple reasons. If you look, about half due to progression of disease, which they might not have been great operative candidates to begin with, because they would have early progression afterwards. And some small minority in a given study, maybe 1% to 2%, it's an immune-related adverse event that's severe. So, it's something that we definitely need to think about. The flip side of that coin, only about 2 in 3 patients get adjuvant therapy, whether it be chemotherapy, immunotherapy, or targeted therapy. And so, our goal is to deliver a full multimodal package, where, of course, the local therapy is hugely important, but also many of these other molecular or immunologically guided agents have a substantial impact.  And I do think the point around neoadjuvant and perioperative is well taken. I think this is a discussion we have to have with our patients. I think, in particular, when you look at higher stage disease, like stage 3A, for example, the risk-benefit calculus of giving therapy upfront given the really phenomenal outcomes we have seen, really frankly starting with the NADIM study, CheckMate816, now moving on into studies like KEYNOTE-671, AEGEAN, it really opens your eyes in stage 3. Now, for someone who's stage 1/1b, is this a patient who's eager to get a tumor out? Is there as much of an impact when we give neoadjuvant therapy, especially if they're not going to respond and may progress from stage 1 and beyond? I think that's a reasonable concern. How to handle stage II is very heterogeneous. I think two points that kind of happen as you give neoadjuvant therapy, especially chemo-IO that I think is worth for folks to understand and this goes to Mike's earlier point, that is this concept if they do get a scan during your neoadjuvant chemo immunotherapy, there is a chance of that nodal flare, where the lymph nodes actually look worse and look like their disease is progressing. Their primary tumor may be smaller or maybe the same. But when we actually go to the OR, those lymph nodes are chock-full of immune cells. There's actually no cancer in those lymph nodes. And so that's a bit of a red herring to watch out for.   And so, I think as we're learning together how to deliver these therapies, because the curative-intent modality is, in my opinion, a local modality. It's what Mike does in the OR, my colleagues here do in the OR. My goal is to maximize the chance of that or really maximize the long-term cure rates. And we know, even as long as the surgery can go, if only 2 or 3 patients are going to get adjuvant therapy then 1 in 10, of which half of those or 1 in 20, are not getting the surgery and that's, of course, a big problem. It's a concern. I think better selecting towards those patients and thinking about how to make these choices is going to be hugely important as we go over. Because in a clinical trial, it's a very selective population. A real-world use of these treatments is different. I think one cautionary tale is that we don't have an approval for the use of neoadjuvant or perioperative therapy for conversion therapy, meaning, someone who's “borderline resectable.” At the time at which you meet the patient, they will be resectable at that moment. That's where our best evidence is, at the current time, for neoadjuvant or perioperative approaches.  Dr. Vamsi Velcheti:   I think the other major issue is like the optimal sequencing of immune checkpoint here. Obviously, at this point, we have multiple different trial readouts, and there are some options that patients can have just neoadjuvant without any adjuvant. Still, we have to figure out how to de-escalate post-surgery immunotherapy interventions. And I think there's a lot of work that needs to be done, and you're certainly involved in some of those exciting clinical trials. What do you do right now in your current clinical practice when you have patients who have a complete pathologic response to neoadjuvant immunotherapy? What is the discussion you have with your patients at that point? Do they need more immunotherapy, or are you ready to de-escalate?  Dr. Sandip Patel: I think MRD-based technologies, cell-free DNA technologies will hopefully help us guide this. Right now, we are flying blind along two axes. One is we don't actually know the contribution of the post-operative component for patients who get preoperative chemo-IO. And so this is actually going to be an ongoing discussion. And for a patient with a pCR, we know the outcomes are really quite good based on CheckMate816, which is a pure neoadjuvant or front-end only approach. Where I actually struggle is where patients who maybe have 50% tumor killing. If a patient has only 10% tumor killing ... the analogy I think in clinic is a traffic light, so the green light if you got a pCR, a yellow light if you have that anywhere from 20%-70% residual viable tumor, and then anything greater than that, you didn't get that much with chemo-IO and you're wondering if getting more chemo-IO, what would that actually do? It's a bit of a red light. And I'm curious, we don't have any data, but my guess would be the benefit of the post-op IO is because patients are in that kind of yellow light zone. So maybe a couple more cycles, we'll get them an even more durable response. But I am curious if we're going to start relying more on MRD-based technologies to define treatment duration. But I think it's a very complicated problem. I think folks want to balance toxicity, both medical and financial, with delivering a curative-intent therapy. And I am curious if this maybe, as we're looking at some of the data, some of the reasons around preferring a perioperative approach where you scale it back, as opposed to a neoadjuvant-only approach where there's not a clean way to add on therapy, if you think that makes sense. But it's probably the most complicated discussions we have in clinic and the discussion around a non-pCR. And frankly, even the tumor board discussions around localized non-small cell lung cancer have gone very complex, for the benefit of our patients, though we just don't have clean data to say this is the right path.   Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: I think that the need for a really true multidisciplinary approach and discussing these patients in the tumor board has never been more significant. Large academic centers, we have the luxury of having all the expertise on hand. How do we scale this approach to the broader community is a big challenge, I think, especially in early-stage patients. Of course, not everyone can travel to Dr. Zervos or you for care at a large tertiary cancer centers. So, I think there needs to be a lot of effort in terms of trying to educate community surgeons, community oncologists on managing these patients. I think it's going to be a challenge. Dr. Michael Zervos: If I could just add one thing here, and I completely agree with everything that has been said. I think the challenge is knowing beforehand. Could you predict which patients are going to have a complete response? And for that matter, say, “Okay. Well, this one has a complete response. Do we necessarily need to operate on this patient?” And that's really the big question that I add. I personally have seen some complete response, but what I'm mostly seeing is major pathologic response, not necessarily CR, but we are seeing more and more CR, I do have to say. The question is how are you going to predict that? Is looking for minimal residual disease after treatment going to be the way to do that? If you guys could speak to that, I think that is just tremendously interesting.  Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: I think as Sandip said, MRD is looking very promising, but I just want to caution that it's not ready for primetime clinical decision making yet. I am really excited about the MRD approach of selecting patients for de-escalation or escalation and surgery or no surgery. I think this is probably not quite there yet in terms of surgery or no surgery decision. Especially for patients who have early-stage cancer, we talk about curative-intent treatment here and surgery is a curative treatment, and not going to surgery is going to be a heavy lift. And I don't think we're anywhere close to that. Yet, I'm glad that we are having those discussions, but I think it may be too hard at this point based on the available technologies to kind of predict CR. We're not there.  Dr. Michael Zervos: Can I ask you guys what your thought process is for evaluating the patient? So, when you're actually thinking about, “Hey, this patient actually had a good response. I'm going to ask the surgeons to come and take a look at this.” What imaging studies are you actually using? Are you just using strictly CT or are you looking for the PET? Should we also be thinking about restaging a lot of these patients? Because obviously, one of the things that I hate as a surgeon is getting into the operating room only to find out that I have multiple nodal stations that are positive. Which really, in my opinion, that's sort of a red flag. And for me, if I have that, I'm thinking more along the lines of not completing that surgery because I'm concerned about not being able to provide an R0 resection or even having surgical staple lines within proximity of cancer, which is not going to be good. It's going to be fraught with complications.  So, a lot of the things that we as surgeons struggle with have to do with this. Personally, I like to evaluate the patients with an IV intravenous CT scan to get a better idea of the nodal involvement, proximity to major blood vessels, and potentially even a PET scan. And though I think in this day and age, a lot of the patients will get the PET beforehand, not necessarily get it approved afterwards. So that's a challenge. And then the one thing I do have to say that I definitely have found helpful is, if there's any question, doing the restaging or the re-EBUS at that point to be particularly helpful.  Dr. Sandip Patel: Yeah, I would concur that having that pathologic nodal assessment is probably one of the most important things we can do for our patients. For a patient with multinodal positive disease, the honest truth is that at our tumor board, that patient is probably going to get definitive chemoradiation followed by their immunotherapy, or potentially soon, if they have an EGFR mutation, osimertinib. For those patients who are clean in the mediastinum and then potentially have nodal flare, oftentimes what our surgeons will do as the first stage of the operation, they'll actually have the EBUS repeated during that same anesthesia session and then go straight into surgery. And so far the vast majority of those patients have proceeded to go to surgery because all we found are immune cells in those lymph nodes.  So, I think it's a great point that it's really the pathologic staging that's driving this and having a close relationship with our pathologists is key. But I think one point that I think we all could agree on is the way that we're going to find more of these patients to help and cure with these therapies is through improved utilization of low-dose CT screening in the appropriate population in primary care. And so, getting buy-in from our primary care doctors so that they can do the appropriate low-dose CT screening along with smoking cessation, and find these patients so that we can offer them these therapies, I think is something that we really, as a community, need to advocate on. Because a lot of what we do with next-generation therapies, at least on the medical oncology side, is kind of preaching to the choir. But getting the buy-in so we can find more of these cases at stage 1, 2 or 3, as opposed to stage 4, I think, is one of the ways we can really make a positive impact for patients. Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: I just want to go back to Mike's point about the nodal, especially for those with nodal multistation disease. In my opinion, those anatomic unresectability is a moving target, especially with evolving, improving systemic therapy options. The utilization for chemo radiation has actually gone down. I think that's a different clinical subgroup that we need to kind of think differently in terms of how we do the next iteration or generation of clinical trials, are they really benefiting from chemo-IO induction? And maybe we can get a subset of those patients in surgery. I personally think surgery is probably a more optimal, higher yield to potentially cure these patients versus chemo radiation. But I think how we identify those patients is a big challenge. And maybe we should do a sequential approach induction chemo-IO with the intent to kind of restage them for surgery. And if they don't, they go to chemo consolidation radiation, I guess. So, I think we need to rethink our approach to those anatomically unresectable stage 3s. But I think it's fascinating that we're having these discussions. You know, we've come to accept chemo radiation as a gold standard, but now we're kind of challenging those assumptions, and I think that means we're really doing well in terms of systemic therapy options for our patients to drive increased cures for these patients. Dr. Michael Zervos: I think from my perspective as a surgeon, if I'm looking at a CT scan and trying to evaluate whether a patient is resectable or not, one of the things that I'm looking for is the extent of the tumor, proximity to mediastinal invasion, lymph nodes size. But if that particular patient is resectable upfront, then usually, that patient that receives induction chemo checkpoint inhibition is going to be resectable afterwards. The ones that are harder are the ones that are borderline resectable upfront or not resectable. And then you're trying to figure out on the back end whether you can actually do the surgery.  Fortunately, we're not really taking many patients to the operating room under those circumstances to find that they're not resectable. Having said that, I did have one of those cases recently where I got in there and there were multiple lymph node stations that were positive. And I have to say that the CT really underestimated the extent of disease that I saw in the operating room. So, there are some challenges surrounding all of these things. Dr. Sandip Patel: Absolutely. And I think for those patients, if upfront identification by EBUS showed multi nodal involvement, we've had excellent outcomes by working with radiation oncologists using modern radiotherapy techniques, with concurrent chemo radiation, followed by their immunotherapy, more targeted therapy, at least it looks like soon. I think finding the right path for the patient is so key, and I think getting that mediastinal pathologic assessment, as opposed to just guessing based on what the PET CT looks like, is so important. If you look at some of the series, 8% to 10% of patients will get a false-positive PET on their mediastinal lymph nodes due to coccidioidomycosis or sarcoidosis or various other things. And the flip side is there's a false-negative rate as well. I think Mike summarized that as well, so I think imaging is helpful, but for me, imaging is really just pointing the target at where we need to get pathologic sampling, most commonly by EBUS. And getting our interventional pulmonary colleagues to help us do that, I think is so important because we have really nice therapeutic options, whether it's curative-intent surgery, curative-intent chemo radiation, where we as medical oncologists can really contribute to that curative-intent local therapy, in my opinion.  Dr. Vamsi Velcheti: Thank you so much Sandip and Mike, it's been an amazing and insightful discussion, with a really dynamic interplay between systemic therapy and surgical innovations. These are really exciting times for our patients and for us. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise and insights with us today on the ASCO Daily News Podcast.   I want to also thank our listeners today for your time. If you value the insights that you hear today, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you so much. [FH1]   Dr. Sandip Patel: Thank you. Dr. Michael Zervos: Thank you.   Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Follow today's speakers: Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti @VamsiVelcheti Dr. Sandip Patel @PatelOncology Dr. Michael Zervos   Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on X (formerly Twitter) ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn   Disclosures:  Dr. Vamsidhar Velcheti: Honoraria: ITeos Therapeutics Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, Foundation Medicine, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Novartis, Lilly, EMD Serono, GSK, Amgen, Elevation Oncology, Taiho Oncology, Merus Research Funding (Inst.): Genentech, Trovagene, Eisai, OncoPlex Diagnostics, Alkermes, NantOmics, Genoptix, Altor BioScience, Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Atreca, Heat Biologics, Leap Therapeutics, RSIP Vision, GlaxoSmithKline   Dr. Sandip Patel: Consulting or Advisory Role: Lilly, Novartis, Bristol-Myers Squibb, AstraZeneca/MedImmune, Nektar, Compugen, Illumina, Amgen, Certis, Eli Lilly, Roche/Genentech, Merck, Pfizer, Tempus, Iovance Biotherapeutics. Speakers' Bureau: Merck, Boehringer Ingelheim Research Funding (Inst.):Rubius, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Pfizer, Roche/Genentech, Amgen AstraZenece/MedImmune, Fate, Merck, Iovance, Takeda   Dr. Michael Zervos: No relationships to disclose

Uno de los youtubers andorranos más conocidos en la esfera hispanohablante de twitch y youtube, conocido por todos por el chaval que más gritos pega en sus directos, él es: Agustin51. Agus nos abre en esta ocasión las puertas de su casa para que hablemos durante el episodio de su último conflicto en el Torneo de Fortnite de Rubius, la polémica de Elmiillor con la policía andorrana, su pasado en Mixer y Facebook y la actualidad con Kick. ¡No te pierdas este episodio! Suscríbete a nuestro canal y activa las notificaciones para recibir actualizaciones sobre los próximos episodios y contenido adicional. ¡Gracias por el apoyo y nos vemos en el próximo episodio de La Placita Amarilla! #Podcast #LaPlacitaAmarilla Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Como cada semana, tertulia en The Wild Project con las noticias más interesantes de los últimos días. En el episodio de hoy: Un abogado gana 26 casos seguidos y se acaba demostrando que no tiene ni la carrera; Un ex-almirante de la armada británica explica que nos faltan seis pasos para el inicio de una Guerra Mundial; Komanche habla de los graves problemas de salud mental que ha tenido en los últimos tiempos; xQc pierde casi un millón de dólares al hacer una mala apuesta; Amazon empieza a sustituir a trabajadores por robots; Más problemas para nuestra amiga Mia Khalifa; El Rubius causa polémica al silenciar un personaje que usaba el lenguaje inclusivo en el nuevo Spider-Man 2 de la Play5... y mucho más. ¡No te lo pierdas! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Comento siguientes titulares: - Twitter, ahora X, para eliminar la función de bloqueo - Musk - La empresa se arrepiente de tomar el trabajo de moderación de Facebook - La Guardia Civil quiere que actualices tu WinRAR: esta vulnerabilidad provoca que sólo por abrir un RAR se ejecute un malware - La computación cuántica amenaza con dejar obsoletos los sistemas de cifrado actuales: Google ya trabaja para evitarlo - La ciberdelincuencia gestiona un negocio oculto de 10,5 billones de dólares en 2023 - Una década después, ElRubius ya no es el rey: este es el nuevo youtuber más seguido de España FUENTES - https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66550959 - https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66465231 - https://www.genbeta.com/seguridad/guardia-civil-quiere-que-actualices-tu-winrar-esta-vulnerabilidad-provoca-que-solo-abrir-rar-se-ejecute-malware - https://www.xataka.com/seguridad/computacion-cuantica-amenaza-dejar-obsoletos-sistemas-cifrado-actuales-google-trabaja-para-evitarlo - https://www.eldiario.es/tecnologia/ciberdelincuencia-gestiona-negocio-oculto-10-5-billones-dolares-2023_1_10428549.html - https://www.lavanguardia.com/tecnologia/20230804/9149206/elrubius-rey-nuevo-youtuber-mas-seguido-espana-pmv.html --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/infogonzalez/message

Entrevista BobicraftEn este episodio de Hablando Pajas tuvimos la oportunidad de platicar con Bobicraft, el creador de contenido de Minecraft mas grande en Español.Bobicraft empezó hace 10 años a subir sus primeros videos y nos cuenta como ha sido todo el proceso para lograr llegar a estar donde esta hoy en día, las cosas buenas y malas que le han sucedido, todas las personas que ha logrado conocer como Rubius, Ibai, Auronplay y otros.No te olvides de suscribirte a El canal de Momo donde todas las semanas tenemos episodios nuevos de Hablando Pajas, el mejor podcast de todos! y el After con Marce y Doggy...Seguinos en las redes#minecraft #bobicraft #hablandopajasIG @elcanaldemomoTT @elcanaldemomo Queres ser parte del mejor podcast de todos? https://plus.acast.com/s/hablando-pajas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Entrevista BobicraftEn este episodio de Hablando Pajas tuvimos la oportunidad de platicar con Bobicraft, el creador de contenido de Minecraft mas grande en Español.Bobicraft empezó hace 10 años a subir sus primeros videos y nos cuenta como ha sido todo el proceso para lograr llegar a estar donde esta hoy en día, las cosas buenas y malas que le han sucedido, todas las personas que ha logrado conocer como Rubius, Ibai, Auronplay y otros.No te olvides de suscribirte a El canal de Momo donde todas las semanas tenemos episodios nuevos de Hablando Pajas, el mejor podcast de todos! y el After con Marce y Doggy...Seguinos en las redes#minecraft #bobicraft #hablandopajasIG @elcanaldemomoTT @elcanaldemomo Queres ser parte del mejor podcast de todos? https://plus.acast.com/s/hablando-pajas. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    Drs. Diwakar Davar and Jason Luke discuss KEYNOTE-716, KEYNOTE-942, RELATIVITY-047, and other key advances in melanoma, including the promise of mRNA vaccines in melanoma and potentially other cancers, as well exciting advances in neoadjuvant therapies across malignancies featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. TRANSCRIPT  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm your guest host, Dr. Diwakar Davar. I'm an associate professor of medicine and the clinical director of the Melanoma and Skin Cancer Program at the University of Pittsburgh Hillman Cancer Center. I'm delighted to have my colleague and good friend Dr. Jason Luke on the podcast today to discuss some practice-changing studies and other advances in immunotherapy that were featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. Dr. Luke is an associate professor of medicine, the director of the Cancer Immunotherapy Center, as well as the associate director of clinical research at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center.     You can find both of our disclosures in the transcript of this episode, and disclosures of all guests on the ASCO Daily News Podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod.   Jason, there was a lot of exciting data in the immunotherapy space highlighted at the Annual Meeting, and it's great to have you back on the podcast to discuss some of this work.   Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks for having me.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, the abstracts that we had selected have several key themes. We'll be covering some of the early advances in melanoma in the stage 2 and stage 2B/C space with KEYNOTE-716. I think this is a study that you know a little bit about seeing you are the presenting author and the principal investigator for the study, as well as the pivotal KEYNOTE-942 trial. And then going on to themes with using third-generation checkpoints, neoadjuvant therapy in non-small-cell lung cancer, and cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma.    But we'll start with KEYNOTE-716. So, this is LBA9505, the study which evaluated pembrolizumab versus placebo as adjuvant therapy in stage 2B and stage 2C melanoma patient population for which historically there was no real effective therapy other than remotely interferon. And these are the final results of the DMFS analysis from this phase 3 trial. So, Jason, what are your thoughts about this, and can you contextualize the results relative to the recent publication?   Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks. I think the important point to level set on this was just a few years ago; this was a population of patients that we didn't treat in clinic. In fact, sometimes they weren't even referred to medical oncology for evaluation. And that was despite the fact that we knew from historical data that the risk of melanoma-specific survival, death from melanoma, was just as high for this population of patients as it was for the patients with stage 3 melanoma, where obviously adjuvant immunotherapy has been a standard for quite some time. And so we launched this clinical trial, KEYNOTE-716. It was a global, randomized phase 3 study of almost 1,000 patients, randomizing patients to either get pembrolizumab or placebo. Importantly, these patients being those with deep primary lesions, stage 2B and 2C with negative sentinel lymph node evaluation.    People will recall that this study hit its primary endpoint on the first protocol-specified analysis at a year. And what we updated at ASCO this year was the final analysis of distant metastasis-free survival. Obviously, an important secondary endpoint because if patients eventually going to develop metastatic disease and pass away, it's the distant metastasis that we worry about. And what we saw in this trial with a landmark 36-month follow-up median of 39 months was that the benefit was increasing. In other words, the magnitude of the hazard ratio change was increasing over time as would be expected, such that at this analysis there was a 41% reduction in the risk of distant metastasis for patients treated with pembrolizumab versus placebo. And we saw a consistent benefit in the recurrence-free survival also out through that same period of time and importantly no change in the safety summary with of course the adverse event profile of pembrolizumab being what it is and well understood across oncology.    So I think these are very important data because they really kind of set the stage for the field. It is now the case that at least discussing adjuvant therapy for patients with stage 2B and 2C is the standard of care; it should be offered to all the patients. Of course, it's always a risk-benefit about whether or not patients want to pursue adjuvant therapy versus consideration of treatment at the time of recurrence. But in my clinic at least, many patients do prefer to try to eliminate the possibility of recurrence and distant metastasis as much as possible.    So I think these are very important data because they really level set the field for what to expect in this population of patients and then they also start to set the table for what's going to come after this. And that's going to be sort of the next step in our conversation here because the next generation of adjuvant studies in melanoma are now going to think about all of melanoma in the adjuvant setting as really one entity, starting from stage 2B going all the way through stage 4 resected. And that'll be relevant actually as we talk about the next abstract that will come in this discussion.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: Just to underscore, positive RFS data, positive DMFS data, and now this therapy has currently got regulatory approval in this investigation and is approved in the United States and certainly in Europe and Australia. One interesting point that we will probably have to contend with, and some of the listeners may be thinking about, is overall survival. So the last adjuvant study that demonstrated overall survival benefit was actually ipilimumab, and increasingly, the Illuminati in melanoma do not believe that we will ever see OS benefit in this disease going forward, even though it has to be an endpoint in all registration phase 3 trials. So, Jason, what are your thoughts about whether or not we'll have a positive OS readout, and even if we don't, why this is still a very important advance in this disease at this time?   Dr. Jason Luke: Your points are well taken. I think it's unclear, probably trending towards unlikely, that we would see an overall survival advantage in this trial given that we have not seen that in the stage 3 adjuvant studies. Now people can debate if, whether or not overall survival is the only meaningful endpoint for patients. I personally do not believe that's true. And to me, preventing recurrence has a value in and of itself, whether or not that's connected to overall survival. And part of the reason that I say that is that for an average patient, the median patient on a trial, of course, we can tell them treatment now, treatment later. It's a wash when you look at the overall study. And yet at the same time, for an individual person who's facing melanoma or cancer, generally they're not going to be the average patient; they're going to be one patient. And it's very possible they could end up with the type of recurrence that in fact is not highly treatable at that time.     So I think that's really the nuance that goes into those adjuvant discussions. The regulatory endpoints have been recurrence in melanoma for a long time. And I think it's important that patients understand the pros and the cons of each. The complexity in adjuvant therapy and neoadjuvant therapy is you don't necessarily know that you had to have it. You're only really going to know whether or not it didn't work if you recur later on. But to me and in my clinic, most patients are willing and interested to want to pursue those therapies in the perioperative setting to try to reduce the possibility of ever developing metastatic disease.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: Excellent. So I think key advance [is] positive DMFS data to add to the earlier reported RFS data and truly practice-changing.     So, moving on to the next study, LBA9503. This is the phase 2 trial of the Moderna vaccine. This is the trial that almost every medical oncologist knows intimately or has been called about by either the press or patients. So what is this study? This essentially is a phase 2 trial evaluating the personalized cancer vaccine PCV Moderna, made by Moderna, the mRNA vaccine, that is being studied in combination with anti-PD-1 pembrolizumab in the stage 3 BCD and stage 4 resected setting. And so there are really two very interesting results here because this is an update of the RFS data that was presented at AACR earlier this year, which was positive. What are your takes on the DMFS results, and maybe a quick blurb on how is this vaccine generated for those who may not be aware of this particular platform?    Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, certainly. So this individualized neo-antigen therapy, as we're now calling it, is a technology platform that allows us to develop an individualized treatment for each patient based on their own cancer. So taking the actual tumor specimen, whole exome sequencing is performed to try to identify changes in the DNA, and then through a reasonably complex bioinformatic pipeline, those mutations that are likely to generate proteins that can be bound within class 1 MHC molecules are then identified in the computer and then synthesized with an mRNA, very similar to the way that the COVID vaccines were made. And then that becomes the actual drug.    So in the clinical trial, which was KEYNOTE-942, about 160 patients were randomized 2 to 1 to receive either pembrolizumab for a year as per standard adjuvant therapy but then with the addition of the individualized neoantigen therapy starting with dose 3 and throughout the rest of the year versus the control arm of pembrolizumab as the standard of care. As you mentioned, the recurrence-free survival were highly positive in this trial when it was first presented earlier this year, and at the updated ASCO we see the 18-month RFS in which the hazard ratio continues to be maintained. But I think most impressively is that distant metastasis-free survival, where we saw an even greater advantage for distant metastasis-free survival – hazard ratio here being 0.35. And so that's a huge advantage for distant metastasis-free survival in this population of patients.     And very interestingly in the clinical trial, when you follow the Kaplan-Meier plots, what you see over time is that they overlap almost the entire first year. And it's really at about a year, basically after the vaccine has had time to kick in and these neoantigens have been identified, that we then start to see the separation of the curve, which looks very flat over time. And so I think this is a very, very exciting kind of technology platform and very exciting results because there was minimal increase in toxicity – just at the site of the local injection – for the addition of the individualized neoantigen therapy.    And beyond that, hypothetically, this is not necessarily just a melanoma thing. So, of course, based on these phase 2 results, a phase 3 clinical trial called KEYNOTE-V940 is going to be launching later this year to compare pembrolizumab versus pembrolizumab plus this V940 individualized neoantigen therapy. And we're very, very excited in the field to see what those results will look like because the concept here is you could really, really enhance adjuvant therapy with this kind of an approach. Meanwhile, we're just about to talk in a little bit about all the exciting things happening in the neoadjuvant space as well. And with no increase in toxicity, obviously, that looks really good.    Suffice it to say that this technology is not specific to melanoma but rather could be applied almost to any cancer where we think about an adjuvant therapy platform. So I think the results are very, very exciting. It is a phase 2 study and it does have some caveats about not being the largest study and some other things, but you can't help but be impressed by the data that have been presented here so far.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: One important plug, I guess, in addition to that is that you mentioned that there's data using the platform in other diseases. And one really exciting paper that came out recently was Dr. Vinod Balachandran's paper; for those who haven't read it, it's in Nature, and really in a very provocative proof of concept study, they studied the platform, the vaccine plus checkpoint inhibitor therapy plus chemotherapy in a highly adverse tumor patient population. So these are patients with resectable pancreatic cancer who had the vaccine generated from pancreatic cancer that was resected after Whipple surgery. And extraordinarily, out of the 16 patients who had immune responses, 8 of them did not have relapse at a median follow-up of almost a year and a half, which is really quite extraordinary given the lack of really any effective drug outside of chemotherapy in that setting.     So, the point that you're making regarding the benefit of this therapy, suggesting that it could potentially be extended to not just melanoma, potentially other tumors such as highly immunogenic tumors, and potentially even nonimmunogenic tumors such as pancreatic cancer, really suggests that this is going to be a very exciting landscape. And potentially this area, adjuvant therapy and neoadjuvant therapy, like we'll talk about, is potentially an area in which other drugs and potentially combinations will be developed.    So next, we will be discussing 3 abstracts evaluating the theme of combinations, and these abstracts are 9501, 9502, and 4010. Abstract 9501 is an evaluation of the combination of fianlimab and cemiplimab anti-LAG-3 and anti-PD-1, respectively, in advanced melanoma, specifically focusing on the post-PD-1 experience in this disease by Dr. Omid Hamid. 9502 is the updated 2-year survival results from RELATIVITY-047, which evaluated nivolumab and relatlimab against nivolumab alone in frontline metastatic melanoma. And Abstract 4010 are the results from the MORPHEUS platform study, specifically looking at tiragolumab and atezolizumab in patients with advanced unresectable HCC.    But focusing on 9501 and 9502, Jason, what do you make of the combination of fianlimab and cemiplimab post-PD-1 setting?   Dr. Jason Luke: I think the data look very intriguing for this second combination of PD-1 and LAG-3 combination. When nivolumab and relatlimab, the approved LAG-3 inhibitor, kind of burst on the scene a couple of years ago, it was somewhat to the surprise of a lot of people in the community who had really come to think that while PD-1 and CTLA-4 were core molecules for therapeutics and cancer, that we just weren't ever really going to see something else come along in checkpoint blockade. And so nivo and rela got approved. We'll talk about them again in a second. But the data now coming forward for another PD-1 LAG-3 combination, again with cemiplimab PD-1 and fianlimab LAG-3, looks very, very promising.    So in Abstract 9501, they updated a phase 1 expansion cohort, phase 2 cohort looking at patients across the various different settings. And whereas in the treatment naive frontline metastatic setting they had previously described about a 63% response rate, they saw a similar level of response rate in patients who had previously gotten adjuvant anti-PD-1, had a period of time off treatment, and then were treated again. And that was reassuring because it suggested that this is still an active combination even with prior exposure to IO in the past.     Now, the thing that I found to be the most interesting about this combination was whereas with nivo and rela, at least from the RELATIVITY-047 phase 3 trial, it looked like there was less benefit in some of the high-risk population cohorts, at least for this combination in early testing for cemi and fian; like we talk about it sometimes, we saw there was a high response rate even in patients with liver metastases and some other high-risk features. And so I think this combination looks quite potent, and I'm very excited to see what the data will look like. I think it's very unlikely we'll ever actually get a randomized trial of two PD-1 LAG-3 combinations against each other. But suffice it to say that the data we've seen so far for fianlimab LAG-3 with cemiplimab PD-1 looks very intriguing. It certainly justifies the frontline metastatic phase 3 and the adjuvant phase 3 trials that are already in planning or ongoing.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: So one thing to consider is on the RELATIVITY-020 trial – the early trial that was led by Dr. Ascierto that really took a long time to read out – the response rate in patients with prior checkpoint inhibitor therapy was quite low. In fact, the data was quite surprising, as you'd mentioned that we had even seen this movement in the frontline setting because the response rate by BICR was only about 12%. So do you feel like the 2 LAG-3 inhibitors are fundamentally different? And if so, can you speculate as to why that might be? Again, with the caveat to the fact that these are very early data and we don't have enough information. And maybe we can also talk a little bit about the 2 pending trials that are ongoing in the advanced and adjuvant therapy landscapes perspective.   Dr. Jason Luke: I think we don't have enough data yet to truly understand whether or not they're really different. The trials that have been run so far are so different that it's hard to compare things back and forth. You can notice that the dose, the milligram dosage of fianlimab in terms of anti-LAG-3 is quite a bit higher, like a log fold higher almost than with relatlimab. And so there's some question of whether or not just merely more drug-blocking LAG-3 might in fact be more efficacious relative to the dose that's approved for relatlimab in melanoma. But beyond that, I think the data hold up very well for this new combination, again noting all the caveats about cross-trial comparison to, say, it looks to be at least as potent, possibly more potent than the relatlimab combination. But again, I think probably we need to see the data from randomized trials and how that fits into the landscape when the trials actually read out because there's a lot of things going on in melanoma that are likely to change between now and then.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: So just to draw people's attention, there are actually 2 ongoing pivotal phase 3 trials: fian plus cemi versus pembro in patients with advanced metastatic and locally advanced, previously untreated melanoma, as well as an adjuvant trial of the combination against pembrolizumab. Again, highly high-risk resected melanoma. These trials are ongoing. We don't have the results yet and we are looking forward to them.    Now, 9502, a 2-year RELATIVITY-047 result presented by Dr. Hussein Tawbi.    Dr. Jason Luke: So this is the study we were just alluding to before, the randomized phase 3 study of nivolumab versus nivolumab plus for relatlimab. To me, the most useful data sort of updating with this two-year survival follow-up is to show the maintenance of benefit between the 2 arms. And so, consistent with what we saw with nivolumab and ipilimumab, there seems to be a persistent delta between the arms for both progression-free and for overall survival out over that extended period of time, where we can see with that updated data now, at 2 years, that it's 52% of patients still alive on the relatlimab combo versus 42 with nivolumab. And it does seem like this is probably a higher-risk population of patients than participated in CheckMate-067.    So it's a little bit difficult to compare the landmarks except to notice that that difference between the control and experimental groups is consistent over a long period of time and that there were no new safety signals either, and so that was also reassuring. To me, the most interesting nugget of data in the abstract, though, is to look at what happened to patients after they were on the first-line treatment. So one of the big questions in our field is really “If patients get nivolumab and relatlimab upfront, what should they get after that?” Should they then get nivo plus ipi, or vice versa? And I think we don't have an answer clearly to that question just yet.    There was an important letter to the editor of the New England Journal now going on about a year ago by Alex Menzies and colleagues that suggested that the use of ipilimumab was attenuated, the utility of it, after a prior exposure to nivolumab plus relatlimab. They quoted a response rate on the order of only about 10% for patients who got an ipilimumab-containing regimen after initial LAG-3. In the data from Hussein Tawbi at ASCO, however, in a small number of patients, caveat, the response rate was more in sort of the low 20% range, 22% to 25%. And so that would be a much more meaningful and important sort of consideration. If we do have independent activity, then lining up sequential therapies and the toxicities associated with each will become increasingly important as we think about how to maximize these kinds of treatments for our patients, but important longer-term data to show that the benefit is holding up and it's safe, and some new insights into what to do after progression on one of these regimens.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, pivoting slightly to combinations, we are going to be discussing a combination of TIGIT plus checkpoints. So tiragolumab is the FC-active TIGIT inhibitor from Regeneron-Roche and this is currently in multiple pivotal phase 3 trials, several of which have been negative, including SKYSCRAPER-01 in non-small cell lung cancer and SKYSCRAPER-03 in small cell lung cancer. The MORPHEUS platform trial essentially is a platform study evaluating multiple different combinations, in this case in liver cancer. And so we have a very interesting Abstract 4010, which is giving us an early readout of the evaluation of tiragolumab plus atezolizumab along with bevacizumab in unresectable, locally advanced or metastatic hepatocellular carcinoma giving us a result that is a little different from what we had seen from the prior negative results of TIGIT. So Jason, what do you make of these early results in the advanced HCC setting?   Dr. Jason Luke: I think these are cautiously intriguing results to really highlight the point is the third checkpoint possibly being LAG-3, now a fourth checkpoint maybe with TIGIT, but with all the caveats that you talked about. In this study, the flow is that there's a continuously accruing control arm which in hepatocellular carcinoma is a combination of atezolizumab plus bevacizumab, and then other arms are added where you add in a third agent. In this case, it's the anti-TIGIT tiragolumab. And in an intriguing fashion, the response rate to the triplet was 42.5% compared to the doublet which was only 11%. So that's a pretty big difference in this population.     Now, it wasn't the largest study, only 58 patients, but it was a randomized clinical trial. And so I think those data really make people kind of open their eyes again. It's worth a little bit of a caveat here that HCC is an unusual cancer in that what is deemed to be unresectable and therefore amendable to systemic therapy is a moving target and that requires multidisciplinary evaluation of patients. And so I think a larger number of patients would really be needed to fully understand this. But certainly, a fourfold increase in the benefit or in terms of response rate looks quite intriguing.    I think the other piece of this is to be just cautious a little bit was when the initial data in non-small cell lung cancer in the CITYSCAPE study came forward, and they looked roughly sort of like this: There was more than a doubling in the PFS and the response rate, which is what triggered all of those phase 3 studies. So to me, this is enough to continue to be very interested in TIGIT as a therapeutic target. And there are many phase 3 trials already ongoing. And so I think, I'm cautiously optimistic that some of those actually will be positive and we could see more movement around TIGIT becoming a standard of care agent.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: To your point about TIGIT being an interesting target, recent data looking at the neoadjuvant landscape in melanoma from Merck, with Merck, also FC-active TIGIT and also some data from authors looking at that TIGIT also presented in this case at ASCO specifically from the ARC-7 study. So very interesting target. Several pivotal trials have been announced. Do you know of any trials that are ongoing in the adjuvant setting in other diseases?   Dr. Jason Luke: Well, as you alluded to, the vibostolimab data in melanoma for TIGIT in the neoadjuvant setting was interesting. And in fact, that has been enough to trigger a global, randomized phase 3 adjuvant study of pembrolizumab and vibostolimab versus pembrolizumab in melanoma. And that sort of takes us back to the beginning of our discussion here, building on the KEYNOTE-716 data. So, yes, TIGIT will be moving forward in the adjuvant space in melanoma and obviously at a static setting for several different tumor types with a PD-1 or PD-L1 backbone.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: So now pivoting towards neoadjuvant therapy and non-small cell lung cancer. The standard of care in this setting was established by the CheckMate-816 trial that essentially established nivolumab plus chemotherapy in the setting of resectable non-small cell lung carcinoma path. Response rate in this setting is approximately 21%. And we have several studies that are essentially looking at novel combinations or in this case, different PD-1 inhibitors in this setting. So Abstract 8500 essentially looked at nivolumab plus relatlimab from a NEOpredict-Lung trial. Jason, do you want to tell us a little bit about this?    Dr. Jason Luke: Yes, I think this is a very interesting study and that this is sort of our first peek at targeting LAG-3 in the context of lung cancer. So obviously we talked about LAG-3 for melanoma. Although the audience is probably aware that there have been neoadjuvant data for LAG-3 with relatlimab in melanoma that substantiated the phase 3 data for the metastatic setting. So one of the questions as we start to apply the LAG-3 in other diseases would be, “Do we see it hold up in both metastatic disease and in the neoadjuvant space?” But in this study, while there were no changes in the safety profile; it didn't impact on whether or not patients could have surgery. There really didn't look to be a big difference in this study between nivolumab and nivolumab plus relatlimab, with the major pathologic response as you alluded to right around 30% for both arms.    Now, it wasn't really the biggest study, but that's certainly quite a bit in contrast with what we've seen in melanoma, where with a PD-1 inhibitor you get again 25%-30%, but with adding on LAG-3, that pushes you up closer to 60%. So I think these were very interesting data that probably put a little bit of an eyebrow raise to say, “Well, let's see what happens in the metastatic setting in lung cancer with the addition of relatlimab LAG-3 on top of a PD-1.” I think it might not be quite so straightforward as what we saw in melanoma, but we'll look forward to those results because those phase 3 trials in metastatic lung cancer should be maturing sometime in the next year or two.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: The theme of neoadjuvant therapy non-small lung cancer, LBA100, which has again previously been discussed in an episode of this podcast by Dr. Jack West and Dr. Velcheti is KEYNOTE-671. And this is a study essentially that looked at pembrolizumab or placebo with platinum-based chemotherapy doublet and followed by resection. So again, a direct parallel to CheckMate-816. What do you make of the results that were reported by our colleagues in this setting, Jason?   Dr. Jason Luke: So not to rehash this, because our colleagues in the lung cancer group have already discussed this at length and obviously they're experts in that disease, but we'll just note that there was a threefold increase in major pathologic response, which turned into a major advantage for event-free survival. And so I think this is at least the third PD-1, PD-L1 combination regimen for neoadjuvant lung cancer that looks very, very promising. It certainly, to me, seems like neoadjuvant consideration really should be the standard of care already moving forward.   To me, what the big question that is left with is “Do we still need the adjuvant component after we give the neoadjuvant?” So, some of the trials are including neoadjuvant and adjuvant, some of them are only neoadjuvant. And I think that's going to be a really important question as we move into the future, both in terms of what is that contribution of the adjuvant component, and then again, going back to earlier in our discussion here, if there could be a major advantage to adding individualized neoantigen therapy, maybe it is important to have both. But I think that's one of the big questions we have to get teased out by the field over the next couple of years.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: And finally pivoting towards cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma. We have 2 abstracts discussing perioperative therapy. So cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma is a high-TMB tumor. The median tumor mutation burden in this disease is threefold that of melanoma. This is a disease in which checkpoint inhibitor therapy is approved as a single agent both with pembrolizumab and cemiplimab on the basis of nonrandomized phase 2 trials. And increasingly, there has been early development in the perioperative setting. The first data in this space came from our colleague Dr. Gross at MD Anderson, who reported in a small, nonrandomized phase 2 trial of 20 patients, a path CR rate with two cycles of cemiplimab at approximately 50%.    A larger multi-institutional phase 2 trial demonstrated that a longer duration of perioperative therapy of four cycles or 3 months of cemiplimab did not particularly improve the path response rates. The response rates were similar at approximately 50% as well. And what we have right now are 2 other trials. The first is the MATISSE trial, Abstract 9507 ,that evaluated nivolumab or nivolumab plus epilimumab in this disease. And the other one was the NEO-CESQ trial, or Abstract 9576, that evaluated neoadjuvant plus adjuvant therapy that's cemiplimab in the high-risk patient population. So we're starting with 9507. Jason, what do you make of the ipi and ipi-nivo data reported in this setting?   Dr. Jason Luke: So I think this is a really interesting study because I think part of the intent is the clinical aspect of how you manage patients with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma. For those that don't do cutaneous oncology, many of these patients have the development of lesions, which can be actually quite difficult to resect in a way that's not otherwise mutilating or cosmetically quite problematic. And that was part of the impetus for this trial where, again, they looked at either monotherapy PD-1 or a PD-1 plus CTLA-4, and they saw great success. As was predicted based on the other data that you alluded to, response rates are more than 50% near 60%, with actually a substantial number of patients on the trial actually refusing to have surgery after they received their neoadjuvant therapy because they were so certain that they had had a good outcome.    So I think these data are quite reassuring in the context of all of this emerging data around cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma. We'll talk about this NEO-CESQ trial in just a second, but I think it really is emerging to be the standard of care very soon for the use of perioperative PD-1 for cutaneous squamous cell.   Dr. Diwakar Davar: What do you feel about the dose and schedule of checkpoint inhibitor therapy used here? So the dose of ipilimumab used was ipi-1 and not ipi-3, and they waited 4 weeks. So when patients only got two cycles of Q2 weekly nivo, and one cycle of ipilimumab, do you think the responses would have been deeper if they'd waited longer?   Dr. Jason Luke: I think it is possible that they might have been deeper, although I'm not totally sure about that. One of the other abstracts we're not directly mentioning here was a study in Merkel cell carcinoma which suggested that in fact, adding ipi and that also highly immuno-oncology-responsive tumor type did not add to the response rate. So I'm not totally sure about that. I think rather what would be most interesting here is sort of the sort of next generation of biomarker work.    As part of their presentation, the MATISSE trial team showed gene expression profiling that really strongly identified which patients were going to do well on the trial. And I think that's probably eventually going to be how we need to think about this. There are patients in the neoadjuvant setting who are going to do really well with anti-PD-1 alone. And then for those who aren't, that's where we probably really need to think about do we need combos, how long to give the treatment, etc. And I think we're really only on the cusp in the beginning of this, which is exciting as we think about moving into the future.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: Certainly, many combinations are being evaluated in this space and we are very excited for the data that it's about to hopefully come in the next couple of months to years.    So the NEO-CESQ – it's quite a puzzle as to how to pronounce this acronym – and this evaluated cemiplimab in the high-risk setting. So it's worthwhile noting that Dr. Gross's first trial looked at high-risk stage 2, 3, and 4 disease. So the context of cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma that's node-positive disease and distant metastatic disease that is in one location or patients with node-positive disease invention. And his multi-institutional cemiplimab trial of four cycles evaluated included patients with stage 2, 3, and 4 disease.    So here in a study just in stage 3 and 4 diseases, Dr. Ascierto reported the results of 2 cycles of cemiplimab and importantly, these patients had both the neoadjuvant and the adjuvant portion of cemiplimab. So, Jason, you mentioned earlier that one of the key aspects that we start thinking about neoadjuvant therapy is exactly how much do you need. Do you need both the pre-surgical therapy and the post-surgical therapy? Is the presurgical therapy enough? After all, neoadjuvant response equals cure. How much benefit are you getting from post-surgical portions? So what do you make of the results that they've seen here and what is the impact? How do you think we'll be disentangling the impact of the neoadjuvant and the adjuvant portion of the immunotherapy upon response and survival?    Dr. Jason Luke: So just to leverage those comments, I think these data are reassuring because in this higher-risk group of patients, they saw excellent outcomes very similar to what Gross et al had previously reported. So that's good. To your question about how we are going to disentangle this adjuvant versus non-adjuvant question, there's a trial in melanoma called the NADINA trial which is ongoing now in which the use of the adjuvant therapy is actually risk-adapted. So after patients have an initial neoadjuvant treatment they're evaluated, and if they have had a pathologic complete response, they're actually going to stop that treatment and they're not going to give the neoadjuvant therapy. And so I think obviously it's a slightly different disease, but those kinds of data, I think, will be very meaningful to help us sort this out.    And I'm not sure whether or not in cutaneous squamous we would need a different trial than in melanoma, although I think in a different tumor, maybe like, say, lung cancer, you probably would need a dedicated study to try to look at that because I think just the responsiveness to checkpoint blockade is going to vary quite a bit once you get outside of cutaneous oncology. But to summarize, reassuring that a similar pathologic response rate, and I think this question of adjuvant or nonadjuvant, I think that's the next question we've got to answer in the field.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: We have now come to the end of our back-and-forth discussion on these very, very exciting abstracts. So Jason, thank you for highlighting these advances and for engaging in a robust discussion.    Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks for having me.    Dr. Diwakar Davar: And thank you to our listeners today for taking the time to listen to this podcast. You will find the links to the abstracts discussed today in the transcript of this episode. Finally, if you value the insights that you hear in the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast.    Disclaimer:   The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.  Follow today's speakers:   Dr. Diwakar Davar   @diwakardavar   Dr. Jason Luke   @jasonlukemd      Follow ASCO on social media:    @ASCO on Twitter   ASCO on Facebook   ASCO on LinkedIn      Disclosures:      Dr. Diwakar Davar:     Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences    Consulting or Advisory Role (Immediate family member): Shionogi    Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, GSK, Merck, Arvus Biosciences, Arcus Biosciences    Research Funding (Inst.): Zucero Therapeutics    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231 Title: COMPOSITIONS AND METHODS FOR TREATING CANCER Applicant: University of Pittsburgh–Of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education Inventors: Diwakar Davar Filing Date: December 11, 2020 Country: United States MCC Reference: 10504-059PV1 Your Reference: 05545; and Application No.: 63/208,719 Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy    Dr. Jason Luke:      Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical , Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX    Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine    Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure    Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof)    Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio        

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Dr. Diwakar Davar and Dr. Jason Luke discuss advances in melanoma, including targeted therapy and the addition of LAG-3 inhibitors to checkpoint therapy, as well as promising checkpoint inhibitors in cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma and Merkel cell carcinoma in advance of the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting.  TRANSCRIPT Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I'm your guest host, Dr. Diwakar Davar, and I'm an associate professor of medicine and the clinical director of the Melanoma and Skin Cancer Program at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center. I'm delighted to welcome my colleague and friend, Dr. Jason Luke. Dr. Luke is an associate professor of medicine and the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutic Center at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center. He is a very, very well-renowned physician-scientist who has done fundamental work in developmental therapeutics and also in melanoma.  Today, we'll be discussing some key oral abstracts highlighting advances in immunotherapy in the cutaneous malignancy space that will be featured at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting.   You will find our full disclosures in the transcript of this episode and the disclosures of all guests on the ASCO Daily News Podcast are available in our transcripts at asco.org/DNpod.  Jason, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Dr. Jason Luke: Well, thanks so much for the opportunity. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, we will go right ahead into the abstracts and the first one we thought we'd discuss is Abstract 9502, which is the RELATIVITY-047 study, specifically the 2-year results. This is the update. This has also been concurrently published at the New England Journal of Medicine Evidence online. And so in this publication and oral presentation, Hussein Tawbi, Georgina Long, and colleagues are talking about the nivo-rela data in the context of metastatic melanoma. So what is your take on this? What is your take on the data both presented and published and how would you contextualize this for the audience? Dr. Jason Luke: Right, so the RELATIVITY-047 study, as people will remember, randomized treatment-naive patients with metastatic melanoma to either receive nivolumab as standard treatment as a monotherapy or the combination of nivolumab and the anti-LAG-3 antibody relatlimab. And that study reported out a couple of years ago showing the improvement in progression-free survival as the primary endpoint. And at the time we saw that difference was approximately a 6-month absolute difference. And eventually, we saw there was an increase in the overall response rate also, again, approximately on the order of about a 10% change. What was interesting was that the overall survival initially was immature and that was an interesting follow-up point that we wanted to see. So I think what's important in seeing now this 2-year update of these data are the maintenance of the benefit for nivolumab plus relatlimab as compared to nivolumab alone across those measurements of progression-free survival and overall response rate.  Interestingly, the overall survival in the clinical trial actually did not meet the pre-specified threshold for statistical significance. That being said, when you look at the data presented in the Kaplan-Meier plots and you think about the difference, it really does appear that there's a clinically meaningful difference between these 2 groups. And the statistical cut point only missed by about .01. And so this is one of those areas where one wonders whether or not subsequent therapies may have impacted on the overall survival calculation because obviously, patients in this trial had not received ipilimumab or a PD-1 CTLA-4 combination. So the take-home message from me in this data set was that the benefit of nivolumab and relatlimab was sustained over time and there was no suggestion of any late toxicities that might make us concerned.   One advantage of this combination of nivolumab and relatlimab is the dramatically improved side effect profile relative to nivolumab and ipilimumab. So whereas immune-related adverse events that were serious, grade 3-4 is approximately 50% for nivolumab and ipilimumab, in the RELATIVITY-047 study, we see that the incidence of grade 3-4 toxicities for nivolumab and relatlimab is 17.2%, so that's less than half. So that's pretty attractive. And when we think about frontline management of patients, I think these data really support that nivolumab plus relatlimab is a reasonable consideration for some patients. And now I think the future question is really going to be, okay, well then who should get nivolumab and relatlimab versus who should still get nivolumab plus ipilimumab? Obviously, these data do not address that, and I think that that's probably the most important question for metastatic disease that's probably on the horizon. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Thank you, Jason, those are all fantastic points. It is interesting to note that as a result of the data, or really the lack thereof, the combination is actually not being launched in certain countries. So, for example, the German Health Authority, GBA, the Federal Joint Committee in Germany has decided against the acceptance of this agent because it does not accept event-free survival (EFS) as a patient-relevant endpoint. So it's interesting that we have an agent that is now going to be FDA-approved. It's already FDA-approved and available in the United States, but it will not be at least available in Germany and there may be other countries that decide favorably or unfavorably depending on how this OS data is viewed.   So pivoting to another LAG-3 inhibitor in this case fianlimab, we're going to discuss Abstract 9501. So Abstract 9501 essentially is describing a phase II trial that evaluated the LAG-3 inhibitor, fianlimab, along with the anti-PD-1 inhibitor, cemiplimab from Regeneron. The data is slightly different from what we have seen with RELATIVITY-047, the Opdualag combination. So Jason, how would you contextualize the fian-cemi combination in advanced melanoma in the context of what we've seen with RELATIVITY-047? If you could help us with that, please. Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, absolutely. So before we dive into this specific abstract, it's, like you mentioned, probably useful to just put all of this in context. Targeting LAG-3 as an immunomodulatory approach has actually been in clinic for a decade approximately. And so the relatlimab phase 1 started quite a long time ago. And there was data for nivolumab and relatlimab in PD-1 refractory patients with melanoma that showed not a tremendously obvious level of activity. And so it was thought there that the only place they would see that activity was to go to a frontline randomized phase 2 and then phase 3 trial, as we just discussed.  In contrast to that, given all the data that had come forward about LAG-3 targeting with relatlimab, the group developing fianlimab took a different approach and rather treated a cohort of patients with treatment-naive melanoma to try to get an initial assessment right away of the activity as read out by overall response rate for this PD-1 plus LAG-3 combination, which is cemiplamab plus fianlimab.   And these authors have previously presented data about this combination from cohorts of patients who are treatment-naive who received this combination and described approximately a 64% overall response rate. And that's an impressive number in the treatment-naive setting. There's sort of a tension there to sort of say, well, wait a minute, the response rate in this single-arm study is 64%, but in RELATIVITY-047, the response rate was lower for the LAG-3 combination and I think that's not a fair comparison. We have to realize this is a much smaller group of patients that has the potential to have been somewhat biased towards a better cohort just because of where and when they were recruited to participate in this trial. All the same, I think that number does look impressive and suggest that this combination is active in the frontline.   Specific to this abstract, though, what the authors presented here was to update those previous data and then specifically also to focus on a cohort of patients who are allowed to have had previous treatment in the perioperative setting. So either neoadjuvant or adjuvant therapies. And in a subgroup of patients, they observed that even in the patients that had received adjuvant anti-PD-1 who went on to then progress later, they got actually a similar overall response rate at approximately 60% even in that group. And so I think that that seems like an exciting number as well. One would on first principles think that if patients got an adjuvant anti-PD-1, then a PD-1 LAG-3 combo could be less active. When and how the patients progressed or did not on that adjuvant therapy, however, I think makes a big difference. And given the relatively small sample size of patients that were included in this report, which is on the order of 20-ish patients who were in the previous PD-1 treated adjuvant cohort, I don't know that we can make super broad analyses trying to compare across the development programs.  What I would take from this abstract, however, is that it does appear that this other PD-1 LAG-3 combination cemiplamab plus fianlimab is also very active and certainly deserves to be investigated in similar clinical trial contexts as the nivolumab plus relatlimab combination that we previously discussed. And while it's not specifically stated here, that is happening, there is a frontline phase 3 trial for this combination of fianlimab and cemiplamab as well as adjuvant considerations, also ongoing. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, thank you. We've seen a lot of LAG-3 data this last 2 months, the phase 2/3a RELATIVITY-020 trial has just been published in the JCO, I encourage people to read that. And so that was the evaluation of nivolumab and relatlimabin the post-PD-1 patient population that Jason alluded to, where the response rate that was observed was 12%. So we've seen a lot of interesting data, a lot of interesting survival data, and now a new potential combination with LAG-3 with fianlimab and cemiplamab from Regeneron. So it'll be a very interesting next couple of years as we see whether or not this new combination, how it shakes up against the established nivu-rela combination, again, albeit with the limitations of cross-trial comparisons and also how it performs against cemiplamab in this ongoing, as you alluded to, ongoing global phase 3 trial.  So, pivoting away from melanoma, now addressing the context of another cutaneous malignancy, a very high-risk one, Merkel cell carcinoma. So, Merkel cell carcinoma for those who are not necessarily treating a lot of this is a very rare and very aggressive cutaneous tumor. It's a neuroendocrine tumor of the skin. It's a cancer that's typically associated more than about 60% of the time with a cancer-causing virus, an oncogenic virus known as a Merkel Cell Polyomavirus.   And in this setting, checkpoint inhibitor therapy has been approved for the last couple of years, initially with a PDL-1 inhibitor, avelumab, and then more recently with a PD-1 inhibitor, pembrolizumab. And, at this point in time, there are three FDA-approved agents that are checkpoint inhibitors that are available for the treatment of this disease.   And CheckMate-358 was essentially a trial of nivolumab plus/minus ipilimumab in the setting of this Merkel cell carcinoma. So, Jason, what are your thoughts on how the addition of ipi did in this setting [in Abstract 9506]?  Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, so I think this is a really interesting abstract because there's a slightly more context even than what you alluded to there. This study is an open-label, multi-cohort, but single-arm investigation where one cohort of patients received nivolumab alone and the other cohort received ipilimumab. It needs to be buttressed by a previous publication in The Lancet last year by the group at the Moffitt Cancer Center who also did a prospective study looking at nivolumab and ipilimumab. In that previous study that the Moffit group did, they got a response rate of 100%. All patients responded to the combination of nivolumab and ipilimumab in their study and that was quite provocative, suggesting that while anti-PD-1 alone has about a 50% response rate, adding ipi in that scenario then took it to 100. So these data were very much of interest because this could be a confirmatory data set to suggest for this rare tumor that perhaps a combination regimen should be preferred. Of course, one has to remember that adding ipilimumab to anti-PD-1 substantially enhances the toxicity profile. And these patients tend to be elderly that develop this kind of cancer, Merkel cell carcinoma. So that's a rather important caveat.   Just to get to the crux of what happened in this trial. As opposed to the previous Moffit trial, there actually did not appear to be a major increase in the benefit of adding ipilimumab, at least in this trial. Because again, in parallel cohorts, the NIVO monotherapy arm had a 60% response rate, which is roughly a little bit higher, but roughly in line with what we've seen previously. And the response rate to nivolumab plus ipilimumab was 58%. So, I mean basically the same. So, how can it be then, that we have this previous very high-profile publication that says 100% response? Now, we have a second publication that says adding ipi doesn't do anything - that's confusing, and I think it'll be really important to try to look at what were the differences between these two cohorts of patients. Did one of them have higher risk features, greater disease burden, et cetera? We don't really know that just yet, but trying to tease that out will be important.  This data also emphasized, though, the complexity around the dosing of ipilimumab. And in melanoma, we never really figured out what the best dose of ipilimumab was to give either alone or even in combination with a PD-1. And we don't really have time to get into all of it right away here, but there are multiple studies in melanoma that would suggest that giving ipi on an every 3-week dosing schedule is superior to giving it on a 6-week dosing schedule. In this study, they did use the 6-week dosing schedule. So, whether or not that could have made a difference, I guess, is unknown. But I would notice that in the previous Moffitt trial, they also used that six-week dosing schedule. This one's a head-scratcher for why did these data not confirm a previous data set? But for the time being, I think this emphasizes that PD-1 monotherapy really is the standard approach that should be considered for patients with metastatic Merkel cell carcinoma.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: That's great, Jason. And so, again, it's a very tough patient population. These are very rare patients. The Moffitt trial that Jason alluded to essentially was a trial that had in each arm, there were approximately 25 patients, of which 13, or between 11 to 13 patients were actually checkpoint inhibitor naive, wherein the dramatic 100% response rate was seen. And this is a trial where at least in this update, we've got about 25 patients in nivo monotherapy, I mean in 43 patients. And so, in a disease that is thought to be extraordinarily sensitive to checkpoint inhibitor immunotherapy because of the role of the virus and the high TMB that it's associated with, it is very interesting that the addition of an additional checkpoint inhibitor did not appear to improve outcomes. But as you alluded to multiple reasons, but we don't know how it's going to shake out. Next, Abstract 9507 and this is a very interesting trial known as the MATISSE trial. So, in the context of cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma is a relatively not uncommon cancer, primarily seen in older cancer patients, particularly a little bit more common in men. And in this setting, we've got checkpoint inhibitor therapy that is FDA-approved, at least two of which are FDA-approved right now, pembrolizumab and cemiplamab both were approved in the advanced cancer setting. And we do know that because of the extraordinarily high tumor mutation burden associated with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, checkpoint inhibitor therapy has got a very dramatic effect. Response rates are between 35% to 42% with pembrolizumab and 40% to 50% with cemiplamab, depending on whether or not one looks at the relapsed metastatic or the locally advanced patient populations.  And interestingly, much like we've seen with melanoma, we have migrated the use of this therapy early in the lines of patients, particularly in the setting of perioperative therapy. So, Jason, how would you contextualize the results of the MATISSE trial in relation to the existing and known data from several of our colleagues regarding the role of what checkpoint inhibitor therapy is doing in terms of organ preservation?  Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah, and I think this is an area of tremendous excitement. And as you were alluding to, the activity of anti-PD-1 really was transformative in this disease, which really can be a disfiguring and locally destructive disease. And with that activity for unresectable disease, last year, near the end of the year, there was a first report of a large neo-adjuvant clinical trial in cutaneous squamous which showed really outstanding results in terms of improving surgery and pathologic complete response using anti-PD-1 in that setting. And for this trial, this was a trial done in Europe; they took a similar tact of trying to think about giving anti-PD-1 or anti-PD-1 with anti-CTLA-4 with ipilimumab in that neoadjuvant period to see whether or not they could reduce the use of extensive surgery and/or radiation therapy.  The short version is they were able to do that. And so they described 40% of patients with single-agent anti-PD-1 and 53% of patients who received a combination having major pathologic response to treatment. And this was so much so that 10 of the patients who had pathologic responses actually withdrew their consent to go on to have surgery because they decided that they had had such a good effect of the immunotherapy, they weren't willing to put themselves through what was going to be a very difficult surgery. And I think that speaks to the upside potential of these checkpoint immunotherapy approaches in certain settings, specifically here in cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma. Moreover, they describe clinical response in neoadjuvant setting as 50% for PD-1 monotherapy and 61% for the combination and I really think that this is really ready for prime time.  With the study published in the New England Journal last year and these data now, I really think the field needs to start moving towards the use of perioperative anti-PD-1 with or without ipilimumab as a standard approach. And I think it's the case that even the NCCN and ASCO and various guideline societies are going to start acknowledging that this ought to be considered for most patients who are facing difficult surgical operations for continuous squamous cell carcinoma. Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, Jason, you bring up a fascinating point, which is the appearance of this in guidelines. So this is undoubtedly extraordinarily good data. It's confirmatory, the pathologic response rates in many ways paradoxically low. You'd expect something about 50% or so. But the reason it's low is because 10% of patients who actually benefited didn't undergo surgery. So really the degree of benefit is tremendous. It's about 50% to 60%. So the fascinating thing in the setting that we'd have is if one is going to try to get the drug FDA-approved, what we now have is the conventional setting in which one needs a definitive endpoint. And at least we know that pathological response rate is not a definitive endpoint in the context of melanoma or, for that matter, cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma. The only setting in which it is a regulatory endpoint is a non-small cell lung cancer or triple-negative breast cancer. But recently there's been some very exciting data from another PD-1 inhibitor called dostarlimab in a trial done by your former colleague Dr. Luis Diaz when he demonstrated a dramatic result of dostarlimab in the context of perioperative rectal cancer where it is micro-satellite high wherein the standard of care is typically very disfiguring abdominal perineal resection.    So in the context of some of our listeners who might be thinking a little bit about how this pertains to regulatory approval, what are your thoughts about the paradigm of avoiding highly disfiguring surgery relating to what was seen in the rectal cancer discussion to what we're now seeing with perioperative therapy in the context of cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think it's a very important question. And the easy out for diseases that have a pattern of progression that is metastasis is to use event-free survival which can include both the pre-surgical and the post-surgical period in terms of looking for whether or not the cancer comes back. And that works for diseases potentially like lung cancer, like you said, maybe melanoma. In cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma, however, that's not probably going to work because this tends to be a locally invasive and less of a metastatic disease. So here then, we really need to have sort of organization across patient advocacy, dermatology, medical oncology to come up with what the most appropriate considerations are going to be for evaluating that long-term benefit because I think we need a tangible result that we can show the FDA. Everyone is really impressed by these results, and I think that next step is to craft this into a way that we have a measurable output that we can then go to them with and say bless this so that all of our patients can get this kind of treatment. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Really great discussion, Jason. And I think this is going to be an area of particular interest going forward, given both the number of trials that have been conducted in this space and also the role of the very interesting regulatory paradigm that has now been set initially at least with the rectal cancer that is microsatellite high and now potentially we will see with cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma.   And so the final abstract that we have selected for you is Abstract 9511. And this is a trial that was conducted by a mutual colleague, Dr. Ryan Sullivan, and his colleagues. And it's essentially a trial of looking at targeted therapy with or without navitoclax in BRAF mutant melanoma patients. And part of the reason to highlight this, it's very interesting preclinical data supporting the addition of navitoclax, b but also a great example of an early trial that came through the CTEP portfolio. And so Jason, can you tell us about why this is exciting and how we might contextualize the addition of navitoclax to the targeted therapy backbone?   Dr. Jason Luke: Sure. So listeners will be quite aware of targeting mutant BRAF as a therapeutic strategy across oncology that was really initially pioneered in melanoma with the development of vemurafenib as the first selective BRAF inhibitor. But the field, of course, moved eventually to BRAF and MEK combinations across essentially all settings. We know that dabrafenib and trametinib are now approved pan-cancer for anywhere we find a BRAF V600e mutation. In the context of melanoma, looking at mechanisms of resistance, we observed that they were quite heterogeneous with reactivation of elements of the mitogen-activated protein kinase pathway, the MAPK pathway. But also there were metabolic changes in the cancer cells themselves which could drive resistance and were downstream of some of those reactivation signaling points. So one of those is the induction of anti-apoptotic machinery in the cell. So activation of BCL-2 or Bcl-xL to try to save those melanoma cells when they were under stress by blockade with BRAF and MEK inhibitors. And that observation was made now about a decade ago or more. And that raised the possibility that repurposing a drug that was being used actually in the chemo malignancy space might be useful in augmenting targeted therapy. And that's where we come in with the navitoclax as a BH3-mimetic that can actually knock down those antiapoptotic proteins, BCL-2 Bcl-xL. And so that was the context for this initially phase I clinical trial of combining navitoclax with the dabrafenib and trametinib.  And those data supported the safety of doing that and moved to this study, which was a randomized phase 2 study of that triplet regiment versus the dabrafenib and trametinib alone. And so this study started quite a long time ago, before the sort of initiation or widespread use of anti-PD-1 antibodies. And so it had to kind of undergo some various iterations throughout its course but eventually has now read out. And it had two primary endpoints, with one being focused on improving the complete response rate for targeted therapy because that's been associated with long-term outcomes as well as to look at the maximum tumor shrinkage of patients within this trial and of course to look at other endpoints like response rate, progression-free survival, et cetera.  About half the patients who participated in the trial had prior immune checkpoint blockade and they were actually distributed evenly across the two arms. So we think that probably won't impact on the outcomes. And what was observed in the clinical trial was that in fact, the triplet did improve the complete response rate for targeted therapy. So navitoclax plus dabrafenib and trametinib had a complete response rate of 20% versus dabrafenib and trametinib alone being at 15%. Both of them had an overall response rate in the 80% range, with slightly higher for the triplet at 84% versus 80% for the double-edged standard therapy. There was also a suggestion that there may be a disproportionate benefit for the triplet actually in patients with smaller baseline tumors. And we know that the efficacy of targeted therapy is more pronounced in the lower-volume disease state.   And so overall, when we look at this without really adding much toxicity, I think this is an intriguing place to look at further drug development. BRAF and MEK inhibition has been a backbone therapy in Melanoma for a long time, but we really haven't been able to move past it or augment it in any real way because of the heterogeneity of treatment resistance. And here, by going after metabolic changes, we perhaps might have the opportunity to enhance our targeted therapy somewhat further. And so we'll look forward to further results investigating this regimen in subsequent clinical trials. Dr. Diwakar Davar: Fantastic discussion, Jason. So these are all great insights. As you've heard, we've now discussed a couple of key abstracts covering major topics that will be presented, major themes of the malignancy space at ASCO 2023, including the addition of a lactate inhibitor to checkpoint in both a randomized large phase 3 trial and a smaller phase 2 trial, the context of targeted-therapy in melanoma making another forerun in the post-3c setting. And two very interesting studies I have looked at, checkpoint inhibitor therapy in the context of cutaneous squamous cell carcinoma and Merkel cell carcinoma, addressing themes that are of huge importance going forward, including the role of perioperative therapy in squam and the addition of a CTLA-4 inhibitor in Merkel. These oral abstracts are all going to be presented at the 2023 ASCO Annual Meeting. We look forward to seeing you there.  So, thank you Jason for taking the time to join us and for highlighting these important advances in immunotherapy. And thank you to our listeners for your time today. You will find links to the abstracts discussed today in the transcript of this episode. And finally, if you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Thank you for your attention. Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.   Follow today's speakers: Dr. Diwakar Davar @diwakardavar Dr. Jason Luke @jasonlukemd   Follow ASCO on social media: @ASCO on Twitter ASCO on Facebook ASCO on LinkedIn   Disclosures:  Dr. Diwakar Davar:  Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences Consulting or Advisory Role (Immediate family member): Shionogi Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, GSK, Merck, Arvus Biosciences, Arcus Biosciences Research Funding (Inst.): Zucero Therapeutics Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231 Title: COMPOSITIONS AND METHODS FOR TREATING CANCER Applicant: University of Pittsburgh–Of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education Inventors: Diwakar Davar Filing Date: December 11, 2020 Country: United States MCC Reference: 10504-059PV1 Your Reference: 05545; and Application No.: 63/208,719 Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy  Dr. Jason Luke:  Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical , Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof) Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio

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Dr. Diwakar Davar and Dr. Jason Luke, both of the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center, highlight key advances in early phase therapeutics and immunotherapy that were featured at the 2022 ASCO Annual Meeting and also address toxicities, including immune checkpoint inhibitor-associated myocarditis. TRANSCRIPT Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. My name is Dr. Diwakar Davar, and I'm an assistant professor of Medical Oncology, specializing in melanoma and phase 1 therapeutics at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center. I am the guest host of today's podcast. My guest today is Dr. Jason Luke, a colleague and the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutics Center at the UPMC Hillman Cancer Center here.  Today, we'll be discussing advances in early-phase therapeutics and immunotherapy that were featured at the 2022 ASCO Annual Meeting.   You'll find our full disclosures in the show notes, and the disclosures of all guests on the podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts.  Jason, thank you for coming on the podcast today.  Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks so much for the invitation. It was a great ASCO, and I hope everyone had a good time.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, onto our abstracts. So, the first one that we'll be discussing, and Jason as you know we've done this before. We'll be rapidly transitioning between phase 1 therapeutics, melanoma, and advanced phase 2 and 3 trials, but you know this is something you do very well. So Abstract 2504, it's a phase 1 trial of TIM-3 inhibitor cobomilab immunotherapy and in combination with PD-1 inhibitors nivolumab and dostarlimab. The AMBER Trial that was presented recently, and in full disclosure, both you and I actually are on this abstract. So, what do you think of this abstract? What do you think of the data that is discussed, and how do we contextualize this in relation to what needs to be done in this space?  Dr. Jason Luke: So, I think this is an exciting abstract because it brings forward what may be the next high-priority immune checkpoint to try to target in clinical oncology. To level-set, I think everybody listening will know about PD-1 and CTLA-4 as immune checkpoints. In the last year, we've had LAG-3 come forward as now a standard of care element of armamentarium in melanoma, and we look forward to further studies of LAG-3 and other tumor types as we think it should be a good partner where PD-1 is otherwise approved.  So here now, we hear about TIM-3, which is another negative regulatory checkpoint on a number of different immune subsets. And in this abstract, the antibody targeting TIM-3 was cobolimab. So, TIM-3 is a very interesting molecule. It has, what you might call, pleiotropic effects in the immune system. So, while in the context of this abstract, it was being targeted as another immune checkpoint on T cells, it's important to point out that TIM-3 has other regulatory roles in other immune subsets such as myeloid cells and very particularly dendritic cells, and that's important because it might bring in another element of the innate immune system to try to drive anti-tumor responses. So, it's an exciting target because it might be able to expand the groups of patients who could benefit from immune checkpoint blockade.  So, in this abstract, we see initially the phase 1 data of combining cobolimab, anti-TIM-3 with anti-PD-1 of a couple of different flavors. And what you could take from this abstract is that in the phase 1 setting, the drug was well-tolerated and combined well, and had pharmacokinetic properties that would be consistent with what we'd expect for this kind of a monoclonal antibody. I think we have to marry this abstract, which is really the phase 1 data about safety in pharmacokinetic (PK) to another abstract presented in the melanoma session, which showed an expansion cohort of patients who got cobolimab plus nivolumab or dostarlimab.  And there we did see a 50% response rate, albeit that there was heterogeneity of patients being treatment naïve versus treatment-experienced. So, what I would say to this on a high level is that I think these data are preliminarily exciting, suggesting that further investigation into TIM-3 may be valuable in terms of expanding the population of patients initially in melanoma, but there will data coming soon in lung cancer and in other tumor types with another novel checkpoint. And I think if we think ahead into the future, the question is probably going to end up being, which combinations of checkpoints for which patients. That's pretty exciting to think about. We've seen a lot of data of PD-1 plus other molecules, and I think some future biomarker stratification really will be necessary to know which patient would benefit the most from which of these combos, but for the time being, this is exciting data to see where the field is going to go over the next couple of years.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Great. And I guess, to your point, one important thing to highlight from the abstract is your point about the role of the different compartments. There was actually a very interesting dose-response relationship with the highest dose of the drug not necessarily being the most effective dose, suggesting that yes, as you escalate, you may have different effects in different compartments, and maybe therefore a broad selection of doses might be required to ensure that you have optimal engagement of the optimal target.  So, the next abstract is Abstract 3007. This is the tumor-agnostic efficacy and safety of erdafitinib. So, we now know that FGFR pathway aberrations are found from 77% of all malignancies, FGFR targets are now U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved in cholangiocarcinoma with pemigatinib, infigratinib, and as well with erdafitinib metastatic urothelial cancer. We know that these agents are not necessarily effective tests in 1 tumor type because these alterations have risen in multiple tumor types. So, the RAGNAR trial, looking at this across multiple tumor types, what do you make of the interim analysis result presented by Dr. Loriot?  Dr. Jason Luke: So, I'd say that this is probably the future of targeted therapy. And so, I think that where we have activity in 1 disease, it's very likely we would have activity in others. So, the author has described this as the largest basket trial of a molecularly defined subset that's been pursued to date. There are upwards of more than 200 patients in the study. I think it's really important, as we think about the data, to realize, though, that all FGFR alterations are not exactly the same thing. And so, in this study, they gave erdafitinib to patients with solid tumors of any FGFR altered status. And so that's FGFR1, 2, 3, 4 mutations or gene fusions. And that's a lot of heterogeneity in there actually.  And in this study, there were two-thirds fusions and one-third mutations, mostly in FGFR2 and 3. That will become relevant as we start to think about the results. On a high level, I have to say that it is impressive in pan-cancer fashion, just selecting by FGFR alteration, there's about a 30% response rate observed. I think that no matter what, that's going to be valuable considering these were patients with refractory tumors with 3 lines of prior therapy on median. I think what we need to know more is the breakdown of which specific molecular alteration and FGFR in which tumor types drove most of the benefit.  So, for example, in bladder cancer where erdafitinib is already approved, that's almost entirely an FGFR3 fusion setting. So we know the drug is effective there. And so I think there will be a further breakdown of the data. As it matures more, you really start to tease out, is it really the case that any FGFR alteration can be treated or there are some that really ought to be the high priorities that we really ought to be going after. I think it would be remiss not to also note, however, that while there's excitement about this sort of pan-cancer approach, the current generation of FGFR inhibitors are not exactly the easiest drugs to take.  And so, the in-class, hypophosphatemia and stomatitis really does lead to dose reductions in a lot of the patients. And I think that that's probably really important to emphasize is that despite the pan-tumor activity, there's still a lot of potential in this field to refine further because it's almost certainly the case that if we had less off-target toxicity, so to say, we could improve the efficacy beyond that 30% that we saw here.  All the same, I think this is exciting for the concept of a pan-cancer tumor agnostic sort of approach, and we'll really look forward to more data to come from this study over the next, hopefully, few months.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: And I guess 1 corollary to that is that we now need to start looking for FGFR alterations in multiple tumor types. So, tests, tests, tests. All right, Abstract 3004, phase 1a/1b dose escalation and expansion study of the MDM2-p53 antagonist BI 907828 in patients with multiple solid tumors including advanced, metastatic, liposarcoma. So, we've recently had data of the previously undruggable KRAS, and now we've got previously undruggable p53, for which we now have targets. So, Jason, what do you make of the p53 targeting approach, in this case, using MDM2 and this particular drug from Boehringer Ingelheim?  Dr. Jason Luke: So, I think that this is an exciting abstract exactly for the reason that you mentioned, which is that p53 has been, and unfortunately, to some degree, still remains, one of those holy grails but undruggable targets in oncology. So MDM2, for those who are listening but might not be aware, is a negative regulator of p53. So, the concept here then is if you drug it, you might release p53 to reactivate activity in that pathway, and then p53 being the guardian of the genome, so to say, potentially leading to apoptosis of cancer cells.  And so, this drug binds MDM2 and MDM2 can be amplified as a resistance mechanism in p53 and several tumor types. And so here, they showed data for the early part of a clinical trial investigating the small molecule, BI 907828, but then they focus specifically in liposarcoma, which is a disease known to be an MDM2 amplified. And so, the results were pretty interesting. The toxicity of this kind of an approach, just to note, is really in class. It leads to some gastrointestinal (GI) toxicities as well as hematologic problems, and this goes again for most regulators of the cell cycle will have these effects, whether they're CDK inhibitors or MDM2 or p53 modulators.  But I think what was very interesting, this is a disease liposarcoma where chemotherapy, functionally speaking, has no role. We, unfortunately, give it to some patients sometimes, but it has almost no activity, and they observe that in poorly differentiated liposarcomas, the response rate was about 12%, but the stable disease was quite durable. And so, I think that really is potentially a big deal because this is an orphan disease. It really lacks any other treatment. But as you zoom out from that, if you start to think about targeting amplified MDM2 in other settings, I think the activity that we see here is intriguing, and potentially suggests that we may be coming to a future where we'll have multiple, sort of, orthogonal approaches after reactivating p53. There were actually other abstracts at ASCO Annual Meeting of other molecules that were less mature also along this line.  So, I think, very exciting to take away from this, one, a potential treatment for liposarcoma for all of those patients that anybody listening actually sees, but secondarily this concept of targeting p53, which I think we'll see a lot more of over the next couple of years.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Excellent. Moving on to the Abstract 3002, this is a phase 1, two-part multicenter, first-in-human study of DS-6000a of an antibody-drug conjugate comprising the anti-CDH6 IgG1 monoclonal antibody that is attached to a topoisomerase I inhibitor payload via a cleavable linker. And so basically, a way in which you can give topoisomerase: (1) TOP1 inhibitor, (2) CDH6-expressing cells. This was studied in advanced renal cell carcinoma (RCC) and advanced ovarian cancer in this abstract presented by Dr. Hamilton. Jason, what do you think of the results and what do you think of this approach in general, this antibody-drug conjugate (ADC) approach using novel targets as well as novel payloads?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think this is one of those that you can't help but be pretty excited about, and I think in the context of the data shown at the plenary session in breast cancer for antibody-drug conjugates (LBA3), I think this is really where the field is going to start to go. So, you mentioned that this is an antibody-drug conjugate that targets cadherin 6 or CDH6, which people will remember from biochemistry class and medical school, or something is a cell-cell adhesion molecule, really a basement membrane protein. So, the concept of targeting it really is just to go after a latch mechanism to get the molecule into the tumor where you want. And CDH expression is very high in renal cell carcinoma, upwards of 80% of samples, also high in ovarian cancer, which is why they chose those 2 tumors to go after.  So, the ADCC, and you described its structure just a little bit, but it's essentially the same backbone as trastuzumab deruxtecan, which we saw this outstanding activity for HER2 and breast cancer on the plenary, with these 8 chemotherapies moieties attached to it, but here now, targeting it instead to HER2, with this molecule now to CDH6. And I think, again, you can't help but be impressed. There were treatment responses on almost every dose level of the dose escalation in this study. There's in fact only 1 patient whose tumor was not, at least, stable disease or a PR, and I think that that just goes to show the power of truly bringing the chemotherapy in a targeted manner into the tumor microenvironment. Responses were heterogeneous. They were not super deep responses per se, but the stable disease was quite durable in the study, and the patients were going out more than 7 months. And again, realizing this is at the lower dose levels as we're increasing the dose and move this in their earlier lives of therapy is likely to be even more effective.  They did show a waterfall plot of the reduction in CA 125 for the patients with ovarian cancer that really looked quite impressive. And given that that's our clinical biomarker that we commonly follow, it may actually even more indicative of the benefit we would see as opposed to resist.  Now, again, there is some toxicity. It is a chemotherapy moiety that's conjugated to the ADCs. So, the most common toxicities were nausea, vomiting, and low platelet counts, but these are kind of toxicities that we're quite accustomed to with chemotherapy. Just to summarize, I think there's a lot of promise for this kind of antibody-drug conjugate targeting, and I think it can only be impressive that they had this amount of activity in the dose escalation of the study. [I] very much look forward to the expansion cohorts in renal and ovarian, which we'll presumably expect to see later this year, early in the next year.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: And as you alluded to, this really was parallel that ASCO, by the standing ovation given to Dr. Modi when she presented the DESTINY04 data of trastuzumab deruxtecan in HER2-low breast cancer, basically now redefining breast cancer from 4 camps, now we have to think of not just HER2 amplified or HER2-high, but also HER2-low. So yes, really have to now rethink how we classify these diseases (LBA3).  So Abstract 2509, the efficacy of anti-PD-1/PD-L1 immunotherapy in non–small cell lung cancer dependent based on CD8 and PD-L1 status. So really Dr. Galon taking us into what he has now described as the immunoscore—really a way of characterizing tumors. A way of thinking about tumors that you've also championed, Jason, in terms of this T cell-inflamed and uninflamed hypothesis. So, tell us a little bit about how these jives with your work and how you would think about lung cancer patients responding and not responding to immune checkpoint inhibitors (ICI) therapy in this context?  Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah. I think the focus quickly here on the immunoscore, so the people are aware of that, I think is really important for diving into these specific results. You have to realize our fundamental underlying predicate for immune checkpoint blockade inhibitor response is that patients have mounted an adaptive immune response. So, CD8 T-cells have gone into the tumor where they elaborate chemokines and cytokines like interferon gamma, which upregulates the expression of PD-L1 in the tumor but also in the surrounding immune cells.  So, you realize that even though antibodies are targeting PD-1, it's really that we're targeting that tumor microenvironment. So, the more robustly we can measure that, and we understand it, the more likely we are to know whether or not the patient is going to benefit. So, this is where the immunoscore comes in. The immunoscore is actually a fairly simple test. It's one slide, immunohistochemistry slide where they can stain jointly for CD8 and PD-L1 on the same slide. And that allows them to do a number of different things beyond just testing the total level of PD-L1. They can test the CD8 density, the PD-L1 expression, but then also the interaction between CD8 T-cells, their distance from each other, from PD-L1 expressing cells, and so on and so forth.  And so really [this] can give us a much more robust analysis of what all is going on in the tumor microenvironment again, off of a single slide. So here then, in this abstract, for patients with non–small cell lung cancer receiving anti-PD-1, they then compared the utility of only PD-L1 testing versus doing the immunoscore. And so, it was actually quite a large set. They had about 250 patients in their analytical set and then split about 150 or 180 or something into the training and validation sets, and they compared the immunoscore against 2 different standard PD-L1 antibodies, the 22C3 as well as the SP263. And what they saw was a high concordance for expression between PD-L1 and the immunoscore.  That's good, because, again, they're measuring PD-L1 in both of those. And so that was a good, sort of, level set. The immunoscore, however, allows them to look to 7 different parameters, again, beyond just PD-L1, as I mentioned. So, CD8 density, interaction, distance, and this kind of thing. Then in these test and training cohorts, they were able to actually split out patients who are PD-L1 positive into further groups, those that were immunoscore low and that were high. And in so doing, they were actually able to sort of dramatically predict the likely progression-free survival on PD-1 checkpoint blockade in those different non–small cell lung cancer groups.  So why is this important? Selection of patients by PD-1 has been very useful in the field of non–small cell lung cancer, but it's hardly a panacea. You're not at all assured your patient is going to do well just because they're PD-L1. And here comes a second assay that can be done in a standard of care setting. So, the immunoscore is a test. You could just order it, and that really does give you much more predictive power about who's likely to do well and who isn't. And I think this test and more broadly multi-spectral imaging is really going to become a core component to how we risk stratify and predict outcomes to checkpoint blockade and lung cancer, but broadly in other tumor types over the next couple of years.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Okay. Now, moving on from a biomarker for PD-L1 and PD-1 to a setting in which PD-1 was just recently U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-approved, so I'll give a brief background to the trial that you've actually developed and led. And so, this is KEYNOTE-716, the abstract in question is LBA9500 (late-breaking abstract) 9500, but this is the distant metastasis-free survival (DMFS) data readout. The DMFS, distant metastasis-free survival with pembrolizumab versus placebo in the adjuvant setting for patients with stage IIB or IIC, that is high-risk node-negative melanoma and the data from the phase 3 KEYNOTE-716 study.  So, this data, at least the recurrence-free survival (RFS) data was actually earlier published, you had presented it earlier last year and also more recently this year, but it was published recently in Lancet. And we know that 716 is a study in which, for the first time ever, we have an immune checkpoint inhibitor PD-1 that was studied against placebo with the high-risk node-negative setting in stage IIB and C melanoma, demonstrated a significant RFS benefit in the setting against placebo. And now we have the DMFS readout.  Maybe you could tell us a little bit about both the RFS and the DMFS data, and why this is such an important advance for these patients.  Dr. Jason Luke: Thanks. And I agree this really is a sea change in how we thought about stratification of patients with melanoma, but I think this broadly has implications for other tumor types as well. So, in melanoma, we've historically thought of its involvement of the lymph nodes—stage III as being the high-risk disease, but we also, if you look at the outcomes from the AJCC, we see the patients with stage IIB and IIC, so deep primary lesions, actually have similar bad outcomes as those patients with stage IIIA and IIIB. And so anti-PD1 and adjuvant therapy and melanoma were originally proved for stage III, but having understood that about 5 years ago actually, started to think, well, why not also treat the patients with stage II if they're at similar risk.  And we pursued KEYNOTE-716 as you mentioned, and it read out last year as a positive trial for recurrence-free survival. And the abstract here then was to look at the impact on distant metastasis-free survival. So, while the regulatory consideration for approval, and it is approved and it's available for patients now, was based on relapse, what we really want to be preventing is the development of metastatic disease because presumably that would correlate with the eventual death of the patient from cancer.  So, in the abstract here, we see the first update for DMFS, which also was positive on its first analysis, the hazard ratio at 0.64. And so, again, very similar to the RFS benefit, showing about a 35-36% reduction in distant metastasis-free survival. And this is a theme that we've seen across adjuvant studies in melanoma, all the adjuvant studies in fact, is that the RFS improvement, the relapse-free survival hazard ratio mirrors very closely the distant metastasis-free survival ratio. We saw that again here. I think it just emphasizes that anti-PD-1 immunotherapy is highly effective in melanoma no matter what stage it's in, but rather related to the risk of death for melanoma.  And so this really has a practice changing in the field of melanoma oncology. Patients need to be referred to medical oncology early for discussion around risk stratification and consideration of adjuvant therapy—I think even at the same time that they're having resection of their primary lesion, and it even calls into  question of whether or not we should even fully be doing procedures like sentinel lymph node biopsies any longer, considering we can make the decision to give adjuvant therapy now based on the primary—albeit that's a controversial area of discussion.  And I would just love for this to start to penetrate into other disease settings. We've seen more recently, approval for neoadjuvant therapy in lung cancer and we see in kidney cancer, bladder cancer. We see adjuvant therapy in—I think we're going to see immunotherapy starting to become an important part of the armamentarium in these hard-to-treat cancers, even at the time that perioperatively before or after surgery.  So definitely a major change in the way we're thinking about stratifying patients and emphasizes that you need to get those patients with melanoma in to have that discussion around adjuvant therapy probably at the time of the primary lesion resection.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: And finally, Abstract 2507, single-cell profiling of human heart and blood in patients with checkpoint inhibitor-associated myocarditis. So, this is data from the NGH Group, Dr. Villani and colleagues are presented by Dr. Blum. We know that myocarditis is an uncommon but very serious immune related adverse event (irAE), and here in this particular dataset, this group which has done a lot of underlying work to really uncover the role of certain key phenotypes, cellular phenotypes, in the development of myocarditis it's presenting the data in the context of ICI-related myocarditis. So, what do you think of this data, what do you think of the use of checkpoint inhibitors are now, as you've said, migrated linear in the lifecycle of the patient, what do we need to be thinking about and how does this improve our understanding of both the use of the drug and what we need to be worried about?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think the toxicities of immunotherapy, while, less frequent than, say, chemotherapy, can actually be more disastrous. In the rare patients, we have extreme immune-related adverse events, there is an incidence of actually life-threatening and fatal events. And so, myocarditis, associated with checkpoint blockade, is one of those things that could be seen, and here at ASCO Annual Meeting, we saw a couple of abstracts summarizing the experience from the National Cancer Institute following myocarditis events, and then this abstract in a translational level trying to better understand what is actually going on in terms of the immune response in those myocarditis cases.  And so, I thought this was actually a very interesting abstract. There was only a small number of patients. They had 13 samples from patients who had had endomyocardial biopsies in the context of immune-related myocarditis, and you might say, well, only 13 samples, but fortunately, this is quite a rare event, less than 1% of patients who get immune checkpoint inhibitors. And what they saw was relatively unsurprising, which is that in patients who were having myocarditis, they saw an increase in T cells and in K-cells, as well as activated CD8 and CD4 T-cells.  I think what was very interesting was when they started to dig into what were the phenotypes of the cells and what were the pathways that were turned on. Again, it was not especially surprising to see that they saw increased levels of interferon signaling and immune-receptor signaling as well as motility and adhesion, but this really, I think emphasizes that there are potentially interventions beyond just the general immune-suppression approaches that we give. They could be more nuanced but perhaps more efficacious because sadly, patients do pass away when they develop this. And in their cohort of 13 patients, 3 of those patients died. And specifically, in looking in those 3 patients, they actually saw that all 3 patients had a shared T cell cluster. And they can't exactly say what it is exactly yet, but I think it's very interesting to see that because it suggests that there's probably something about the T cell response in those patients that disproportionately triggered a fatal event.  And if we can understand that better, we then may be able to really tailor our interventions in a way that is more useful. Because, frankly, the way these patients usually present is they show up in the emergency room (ER), and they're seen by an ER doctor who thinks they're having acute coronary. They ship them off to the catheterization (cath) lab. They open him up, and then they get in there, and there's nothing going on. There's no plaque. And so now, all of a sudden, everyone is quite confused. And so, if we had better ways to search for that ahead of time to be aware of it, we might have better interventions because usually what happens right at that moment is everybody gets very confused and starts calling the oncologist, and we start slapping on steroids and other immunomodulatory agents, but sometimes it's late.  So, I think this is a great abstract. It's really starting to preliminary give us an idea of what is the actual biology that underpins these terrible events, and we can hope that we can build off that over time hopefully to eventually come up with better predictors and then obviously better interventions to try to avoid these outcomes in a small but real number of patients.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Excellent. One other point is you and I are both involved in drug development, and as we start thinking of side effects. Side effects are really on the flip side of responses in drug development. So really 1 point to make of this is that when people start developing side effects rather than, as you say, putting your hands up in the air and waving them around, 1 of the things that we should be doing in drug development is possibly biopsying these patients because we could get new PD insights into how these drugs work, why they work, and particularly which sub-populations themselves they work on, particularly in the early-drug development setting when you oftentimes don't have that many responses.  With that, thank you, Jason, for sharing your insights with us today.  Dr. Jason Luke: Thank you.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: And thank you to our listeners for your time today. If you value the insights that you hear on the ASCO Daily News Podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. So, thank you for your attention, and we will sign out.      Disclosures:  Dr. Diwakar Davar:   Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences  Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences  Consulting or Advisory Role (Immediate family member): Shionogi  Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, GSK, Merck, Arvus Biosciences, Arcus Biosciences  Research Funding (Inst.): Zucero Therapeutics  Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231 Title: COMPOSITIONS AND METHODS FOR TREATING CANCER Applicant: University of Pittsburgh–Of the Commonwealth System of Higher Education Inventors: Diwakar Davar Filing Date: December 11, 2020 Country: United States MCC Reference: 10504-059PV1 Your Reference: 05545; and Application No.: 63/208,719 Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy  Dr. Jason Luke:   Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical , Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX  Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, STipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences, Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER, STINGthera, Synthekine  Research Funding (Inst.): Merck , Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma , EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure  Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof)  Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio  Disclaimer: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.  Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.     

[00:00:00] Jemma Issroff: Live from Portland at rails comp 2020. We're recording a podcast panel crossover episode. I'm Gemma is off one of the co-hosts of the Ruby on rails podcast. I'll be moderating this panel. We have five podcasts represented here across eight panelists. We're going to go around to start and hear what all everyone is excited about.For rails comp. First up, we have Brittany Martin from the Ruby on rails podcast. Brittany, what talker workshop are you most looking forward to? [00:00:29] Brittany Martin: I have to admit I'm going to go with a meta answer and it's going to be this panel, but also as well to make a switch track, which I ended up curating. We already saw Joel Hawksley gave a fantastic talk as well as David Hill.And I'm just excited for that track to continue. [00:00:44] Jemma Issroff: Sounds great. Looking forward to hearing the rest. Next up, we have Robbie Russell of maintainable software podcast. [00:00:51] Robby Russell: Hello, I'm enjoying so far. The, uh, what does it talk to me like I'm five or I forgot the way it's titled, but yeah, the tracks there have been really great in terms of getting down to some of the basics and such.And so. Kind of mandating most of my teams at, and those ones in particular, if they can do which ones have you been to so far? I just sat in the rails console one and I learned a few things that I didn't know about or I'd forgotten about like using jobs in rails console is pretty fun having sub-processes and there was one earlier on maintaining rails applications.I really enjoyed that one. Next up [00:01:26] Jemma Issroff: Andrew Culver from framework friends. [00:01:28] Andrew Culver: Yeah. So for me, conferences are about people. And so I'm kind of notorious for hanging out in the hallway, track, all attend a few talks, but mostly like for the limited time that I'm here, I come in late. I leave real early. Cause I got kids that I got to get back to back home.But for the time that I'm here, I just try to have as much face time with, you know, everybody like who's in the room right now. [00:01:50] Jemma Issroff: Nick swatter, Ruby on rails pod. [00:01:53] Andrew Culver: I'll do [00:01:53] Nick Schwaderer: two things. One, I like trails con for me, his bag. I'm just so hyped for it. I'll call out. Hi, joined the Ruby community in first week of March, 2014 and never been to rails comp.I've like followed the content for eight. So it's such a treat to be here by will to honor your question, pick a specific thing. I'm excited to see the remote group began talking about a pocket while I won't spoil anything. I love our community, but seeing people not just carving out their niche, but like helping to grow more of things in the community to make it sustainable, to make it more welcoming and open to more people.And so I'm absolutely, as you're saying, the UK buzzing to see, and I agree began, [00:02:31] Robby Russell: and there's a whole [00:02:32] Jemma Issroff: community content. Speaking of remote Ruby, Andrew Mason. [00:02:36] Andrew Mason: Yeah, what's up everybody. I was excited for Joel Hawksley's talk, which is great. Joel, again, Joe's in the audience for anyone listening. I'm excited for Schwan's talk because Schwab always gives amazing talks.I'm always excited for Brittany's talk and Britney's not giving a talk this month. So that's why I'm excited to hear her [00:02:54] Jemma Issroff: here. Uh, next up [00:02:56] Andrew Culver: Jason. Tarryn's. [00:02:59] Nick Schwaderer: Hello? [00:03:01] Jason Charnes: Well, I feel like any answer I have now would just be cheating. I too very much like the hallway track and the people, I very much enjoy Joel sock.Dave, Copeland's giving one. I'm really looking forward to the one I'm least looking forward to is the remote Ruby [00:03:13] Nick Schwaderer: talk. [00:03:15] Robby Russell: Oh. And [00:03:16] Jason Charnes: I'm excited that Aaron Francis is here so we can talk about Laravel this whole [00:03:18] Andrew Culver: time. [00:03:21] Jemma Issroff: Also have remote with me. We have Chris Oliver next. [00:03:24] Chris Oliver: I'm just so excited to like put faces to Twitter, avatars and discord and everything had conversations with so many people.And then finally getting to meet them in person is the best. That's what I'm looking forward to the most. [00:03:37] Jemma Issroff: And we have Colleen Chandler from the software social [00:03:40] Colleen Schnettler: podcast. I am super excited about my workshop, which is coming up in 45 minutes, filling an advanced query builder with active record. And there's actually quite a few active record talks here this week.So I'm super pumped for those. I'm really looking forward [00:03:56] Jemma Issroff: to it. So next question I have is why podcast, and maybe we can get into the community content track a little, or, or what's going on. [00:04:04] Brittany Martin: Yep, Brittany. So I love its ability to be a time capsule. And it's so cool to have a timeline of my own career, but it's even cooler to watch my co-hosts career.Nick's first episode was September, 2018. He was a regular guest, and then he became official cohost in 2021. And then Gemma's first episode was in March, 2021 and then became a cohost also in 2021. And each have had like a really unique path to Shopify and establishing themselves more in the community.And. I feel really grateful that I have an opportunity to talk to [00:04:36] Jemma Issroff: them regularly about it. We feel grateful for the same remote Ruby. I know you're doing a whole talk on podcasting. Do you want to give us a little preview? [00:04:46] Andrew Culver: All are they intrude? If the preview? [00:04:48] Andrew Mason: Yeah, I mean, I think podcasting is a great way to kind of reach a very large audience without as much overhead as producing videos.So our talk is basically on how to start a podcast and it's tailored towards Ruby, but it's going to be about kind of our journey to starting one kind of the lessons that we've learned, because I've, at this point I've been on three. Jason. And Chris started remote Ravi men. Then I joined them later. So I think we have individually a lot to share with the community to help them not fall into the same traps that we did.So that's our goal is to like help encourage people to start their own podcast and do it in a way that they can avoid some of the huge mistakes that we've made over the years. [00:05:29] Jemma Issroff: What are some of the mistakes? [00:05:31] Andrew Mason: It takes a team. In my opinion, to produce a great podcast from editors, from doing marketing, doing show notes, you know, there's so many aspects of it and having cohos.And if you only have two co-hosts one person doesn't show up, what do you do then you skip a week. I think consistency is really important and it's kind of back to us about having a team. And when you don't have that team in place, it can really produce a lot of heartache and headache. And a lot of after hours work on the podcast, which is not the goal.And it really detracts from the. Colleen, [00:06:02] Jemma Issroff: do you have a similar view on podcasting? So [00:06:05] Colleen Schnettler: one of the things I love about podcasting is this concept of luck, surface area. And it's this concept that the more visible you are, the more opportunities come your way. I'm a self-taught developer. And when I got into software, everyone's like, you should blog.You should blog. I could not get into blogging. I just could not get into a good routine. I didn't like it. And then I started podcast. Random people on the internet, listen to the podcast and then people recognize you and then they know you. And I have found for me like professionally, first of all, I love it.Cause I do a podcast with someone who I'm already friends with, but professionally like opportunities start coming your way as you become more visible. And I think it's a very low friction way to become more visible [00:06:53] Jemma Issroff: Andrew yet. Do you have similar thoughts? [00:06:54] Andrew Culver: Yeah. So for me. We were already having conversations.So Aaron and I were already chatting. And so by just hitting record, they gave us this opportunity to kind of like share that. I kind of had a sense, like, yeah, people might find this interesting what you can't. If for anybody that's listening, there are so many podcasts. You have friends like Justin Jackson and like his whole life, his podcasts, because there's so many of them.And so anybody that thinks that they have a unique take on something, if you're thinking about starting a podcast, start a podcast, just do it because what you can't know. Before you do it before you start publishing, before you start sharing your ideas is who's going to come out of the woodwork. And yeah, we got like feedback from people that we knew, but we also met tons of people that we've never heard of before that reach out and say like, Hey, I love that.And people that come up to you at conferences and say, Hey, you know that conversation that you had, I really identified with that. That really captured something that I had been thinking about. And until you start publishing stuff, you can't know if that's going to happen. And it's so low friction, like unlike blogging, which it takes a ton of time.We were already having the conversation. So you just hit record and you publish it. And then I think the other piece of it as well, which for folks who have guests on their podcast, it's amazing. To think that you can provide infrastructure for super smart people, people that are way smarter than me, you can get them on.We had a guy say this to us recently where he didn't want to reach out to people and be like, Hey, can I come on your podcast? But he said, but reach out every six months because I might have something to say. And so the idea that you can get an audio. And then you can share with that audience, the incredible thinking of people that may only want to do a podcast a couple times a year.That's another thing that I love about the medium. [00:08:51] Jemma Issroff: So the ability to enable others or to push others forward. Yeah. You mentioned feedback a few times hearing from your listeners. I know that something that it's tough to do as a podcast host, it's tough to figure out where your listeners are and how they talk to you.Does anyone have thoughts on that? [00:09:09] Andrew Culver: Twitter is the best thing ever. I live on Twitter. And so when you open your DMS, make it easy for people to send you messages. Yeah. Just open that sucker right up. Robbie, have you [00:09:20] Jemma Issroff: had similar experiences? [00:09:22] Robby Russell: You know, Twitter is helpful. So I do encourage people to email me as well.Mike format doing more of like interview style and fairly. Topics, but just a broad range of different people. So, but the angle that I, you know, if it's terms of communication, it's also, but it's going to be lonely as a podcast or not. You don't hear often, sometimes we'll post stuff on Twitter and hopefully the guests will reshare that and their network, or we'll help interact with that.But there's other areas I've found like some interaction over like Reddit. Sometimes I'll post the links there as well, and try to use some controversial title for the episode, just to kind of provoke people a little. That tends to help a little bit as well. Those are some areas, but I do get a lot of emails and occasional DMS and stuff from people.[00:10:06] Andrew Culver: Banana thought. [00:10:07] Brittany Martin: Yeah, for me, I used to have a very loyal listener who would tell me about how terrible my audio was. And I so appreciated them for it because I was learning. And then as I tweak things, I would have sessions with them. And then eventually when we hired a professional editor, he reached out to me and told me how proud he was of me.And then he would just really believed in the podcast. He held on for all that time that I was learning, but I will say too, the greatest joy for me, I will echo Andrew is when I'm on Twitter and someone will tweet an inside joke from an episode and bring it back. Like we get jokes about goo. We get jokes about treading water.It's really fun for me to share those jokes with those lists of. I [00:10:47] Andrew Mason: think you can be the source of your own feedback as well. I say time and time again, like I'm the only one who listens every single week when our podcast listens, I listened to it and that is a way for me to find errors in the way I speak things that I do when I speak like arm, like, and, uh, and things like that also is if you solicit.Kind of going back to what Robbie was saying, that's another great way to get it. And I've also said that when you get that feedback, it may not always be positive and it may not mean that you need to change anything. Not all negative feedback means that, oh, I should adjust this because this one person doesn't like the way we do.[00:11:23] Robby Russell: I was just going to say on the, like, asking for people to do reviews, I've found that if I kind of repeat that over and over, it's kind of becomes an echo chamber of nothing. It's hard to get reviews on apple podcasts and other places. I don't even know where else people were telling me, but go anywhere is stitch.You're still thinking. Do you know, sometimes I'll just kind of go a little off script and then I'll be like, or write something and some chalk on the sidewalk. And then someone sent me a photo that they did that they were like, oh cool. I got a nice review on some sidewalk in someone's neighborhood. So thank you.Whoever that was. [00:11:54] Nick Schwaderer: And feedback is definitely a gift. It's taken me a long time for me to learn that in like most areas. Like, y'all listen to podcasts. I listen to podcasts. It's quite a big commitment to carve out a half hour, 20, 30 minutes, 60 minutes of your day, especially in a remote world where you don't commute.So we don't have that cheat code as often anymore. And so most people, if they're unhappy, what do you do? You just switch off? So like how much does somebody care to? Actually, even if it comes off as quite terse with feedback, sometimes it can either be, well, if it's true, why are you offended? And if it's not true, then hire you.Because not true. I'd always things for me. Any feedback on anything? This is not even just in podcast, but if you can try and wrap a Colonel out of it and make something positive, it's might be one of the nicest things you hear. [00:12:37] Jemma Issroff: Switching gears a little bit. Chris Oliver, what do you love about the Ruby ecosystem?[00:12:42] Chris Oliver: A lot, probably the people the most beside from that, there's something about the Ruby ecosystem that started in entrepreneurship and. The language itself has kinda like designed around humans first, which is unique and rare. So it's all kind of around people and stuff. Hey, [00:13:02] Jemma Issroff: what else have thoughts here?Andrew Kovar. [00:13:05] Andrew Culver: So I think the thing that attracted me to the Ruby ecosystem like 10, 12 years ago now it was tooling. And I think that comes back to what Chris is talking about. That it's a human. Maths is nice. So we are nice, like the whole Mina Swan thing. And then the way that, that bubbles up, I think into rails, since we're at rails comp, as a framework is the developer experience.It's like a framework that was developed with empathy for the way that you would interact with it. And that was different than a lot of what existed at the time. And I think other frameworks have taken inspiration from that. And we certainly don't have a monopoly on developer experience. I think we can look to other frameworks for inspiration.There is. But the focus on tooling, you know, it, it's interesting. There's a white quote. I'm probably going to butcher it a little bit, but I think there's actually like a lesson to be learned from it. So one of the things that Y said toward the end of his tenure was software. So unrewarding to write something and then a year later it gets replaced by something better.And then a few more years go by and it doesn't run at all. It doesn't run at all. There's an inverse way. Of looking at that quote. And that is that our stuff's always getting better. There isn't a monopoly on anything and you can always propose a new, a better way. And we're the beneficiaries of that. And because there's that focus on developer experience that keeps driving us forward rails continues to compete.It continues to be like, I think it is still to this day, the best way to launch SAS applications specifically. And so that's one of the things that I love about rails and love about the community. It's that focus on people [00:14:50] Jemma Issroff: what's missing. And we have a foremost why expert, I think probably in the world next to you, who is nodding along.So I think we can say that quote was all good. What's missing that next year or the next year or the next year we might see in the community. Jason. [00:15:04] Jason Charnes: So they talked about Ruby cough, but Andrew is talking about. But like tooling, it's kind of stagnated. It feels like. And the Ruby community, Ruby ecosystem, and like they were talking about Ruby three's focuses on developer experience.There are times I've considered not writing Ruby. I watched these other people work in languages and they can do amazing things like amazing refactorings and then even things like suggestions. And I'm like, I'm still writing the same Ruby code I'm writing five years ago. So I think that's something we can improve on for sure.And I think they're trying, so that's [00:15:36] Nick Schwaderer: encouraging, I think this will lead into another white quote from it's the similar time which was, and I think that's applies for our community. If you don't create, you become defined by your tastes and your tastes can only alienate other people. So create. And I think that that's something that we can, we have a mature ecosystem.Now we can really be lazy if we want. And I think the railway is awesome. Like the Ruby way is awesome, but I think we can now put the manta on our shoulders and create, even if it's just fantastic, interesting new jams, be the content we want to see in the world. And that goes with podcasting. It goes with open source.I really feel Jason saying. And I think that part of that solution would be to continue to create new and innovative things. I think there's definitely a lot of room for that. We could definitely stagnate and make awesome SAS apps, crowed SAS apps all the time with rails, but I think there's a lot more innovation [00:16:26] Andrew Culver: and fun to be had.I think that's a call to action. I think that's what for anybody that's listening to that if that resonates with you, I think we're just scratching the surface. Of what we can do to make it easier for people to develop software. It's such a lucrative opportunity. I have like a physical product business as well, and the margins are terrible.It's so awful. And like when I sold my first SAS business, the margins, when we went through due diligence for like 95%, we operated at a 95% profit margin. That is an opportunity that we should be trying to get in. And we haven't even scratched the surface of all the SAS software that can be written with rails.You can find a mission in it in creating better tooling, higher levels of abstraction, greater developer experience and usability so that we can give these tools the best set of tools to a greater set of people so they can improve their economic situation. A single person building a SAS app can change their life.And I think we've got the best tool to give to people for that. [00:17:33] Jemma Issroff: Yeah. Or even I would argue, uh, enable people to build their own tools that can lift them up. Robbie, do you have thought there, [00:17:40] Robby Russell: I'm going, go ahead down a little bit of lemon here and say that I disagree with everybody. To an extent I'm actually more interested in maintainable software, but thinking about as new tooling is coming out, I think it's great.We keep building new tools, but it actually becomes. For all of us software engineers, wherever we're like, well, we need to upgrade to this new thing because that's the new thing that everybody's talking about. And there's not enough emphasis on like, how do I help take care of this stuff that was already working, that our apps are already reliably working with, you know, our customers or our clients have already invested time and money into like everybody chasing the next shiny new thing.And I'm like, what about the thing that's already working? How can we refactor that? How can we iterate on that? How can we make sure that those gems are getting more support? Maintainers I maintain. And I created an open source project. It's exhausting to take care of projects for a long time. And so I think we need more in the Ruby ecosystem, less new gems, more emphasis on helping participate in helping take over projects or just helping those maintainers push things forward or help offer to volunteer and things like that.Teaching people how to like migrate these things, how to handle upgrades. So that's the next new shiny object. Isn't the thing that we're trying to compete with? I think the 0.1 of my comrades over here, I was saying here was just, we're trying to make the developer experience great. And we can be a little lazy and we are being lazy as a community at times.And I think we owe it to ourselves and to our future. To take care of the stuff that we've already invested a lot of time and energy and [00:19:08] Andrew Culver: Brittany, [00:19:09] Brittany Martin: I think that's a really interesting take Robbie and it kind of makes me question, you know, in order to grow out the Ruby community, we have to do one of two things.We either need to introduce new people into the community who haven't been here before. Or we need to try to re-acquire the community members who have left for other languages and frameworks. And so the question is if we make the software more maintainable, are we going to be able to coax back the members that we've lost in the past?Like, is it our job to educate how things are better and really are things about. [00:19:39] Jemma Issroff: Nick the Y quote, you pointed to brought up, tastes as being exclusionary. I wonder if anyone has thoughts, in what ways are we as a Ruby community being [00:19:48] Andrew Culver: exclusionary? [00:19:49] Jason Charnes: This is maybe a crappy take, but rails being the only web framework in Ruby sometimes feels a bit exclusionary.I like there a NAMI there Sinatra, but people associate Ruby with rails and that's fine. Through accent. Like I very much love rails and obviously, but I do think there's value to be had from like having alternatives and being able to learn from other people and different ideas. I wasn't around for Merv rails, merger, the murderer.But I think I would have liked to have been because they were like competing ideas that became one, and I think that would help push Ruby [00:20:30] Andrew Culver: forward. [00:20:32] Colleen Schnettler: So I think it's simpler than that. I do these weekly mentorship calls with junior developers. And I usually get like 15 to 20 and a call and none of them are rails developers.And I think because we need more junior level rails jobs, people are going to go where the money is. We all need to make money. If you look, I mean, even as us as we've hired people, we don't hire junior developers. We don't, especially in rails. I mean, I know I'm being real specific, but I think part of that is because these applications are.A little more legacy, a little bit older, you need to have more context. And so I feel like the problem is solvable at the basic level and that's, we need to hire people [00:21:16] Andrew Mason: better than. And to add onto that. Here's a call to action. Everyone listening, you and your company are in a position to argue for and to promote and to do whatever you want to call it, to get more junior engineers into your company.And it's kind of. Management and the senior developers who create and prove that you can have an ecosystem where juniors can thrive. They can learn the way you do rails. They can do all these things, but it really comes down to the people who are already in those positions to bring people into them, to throw the rope down, back after you're done using it and pull up people behind you.And I really think we can say, oh, well, these companies need to change. But at the end of the day, it's the engineers in those companies who can facilitate this change and we need. [00:22:03] Nick Schwaderer: Yeah. And like, plus plus, plus, plus I want to give credit and I won't call out people unless they want to talk about, but people at this table collectively have done so much to lift up juniors and give juniors opportunities.And to give them a voice, I'd say, if you are listening to this, and if you're listening to this five years from now, randomly in a car, if you're just an engineer, you can give a voice to this in your company. I was hired. A self-taught Ruby list. And I got into the game in 2014 and it was the most isolating and difficult and painful time going from nobody's paying me to code to somebody, paying me anything to code, and it did difficult job.And if you are able to facilitate even just one person every two years, you're making a huge impact in the universe. And this is something like, if there's anything, like, if you want me to just give you a shout out on Twitter, if you do this for the good of the community, Just an altruistic or there's something that we definitely believe in, and it's great for the community.And thank you to all of you and everything that y'all have done for juniors over the years, Schwab [00:23:01] Jason Charnes: he'll pay a hundred dollars per junior [00:23:03] Nick Schwaderer: hire. Yeah, I will actually, yeah, I will. I will pay your company a hundred [00:23:07] Robby Russell: dollars and for those listening as well, another thing, if, if you're nervous about the idea of even bring out your first junior developer, bring in interns, do it once a quarter, building your team cycle, keeping them there for six, eight weeks time box it.So. You know, there's an end period. Tell them that you're not hiring them at the end of that. It's like a period that you're going to pay them for six to eight weeks. That way you're not on the hook for that awkward conversation. When they say, do you want to keep me? Because you got to build in that kind of like that muscle of, because what ends up happening is you might hire that person.Then you think I won't have time for the next person. So I'm actually a big advocate for having a regular internship cycles. So. It gets in the habit of having people come and go, because it also helps you improve your onboarding experience for new developers to your projects and build up that resilience amongst your team, that this is an expectation of the job.Not something that we're going to think later down the road. So building internships first, serving in your junior developers, you can do that in parallel as well, but your junior developers have people to mentor immediately when you bring interns in. And so they're part of the process as well. And so that just levels.So [00:24:05] Brittany Martin: at Texas, we'll be hiring two junior backend developers this summer and juniors work well for us because we only hire seniors that are excited to mentor. I can't tell you how many times I have interviewed seniors that have been very technically savvy, but have clearly no interest in mentoring. And unfortunately that just won't work for us.And so I think that's important that you have to establish that as a norm within your organization. [00:24:29] Jemma Issroff: So Chris Winslet, a long-term rails developer is asking, where is the front end going? What's happening to that in the future? Yeah, Andrew [00:24:37] Andrew Culver: Culver. I'm sure everybody up here has like an opinion about this and it's very relevant.I think we're on the right track. I don't think that that excludes react view any of those other toolings, but I think if you go back to that original blog post about stimulus, this isn't exclusive to stimulus. It's a philosophy. What DHH articulated in that blog post, I think is one of the most significant things written in the 15 years that I've been doing software development.It's more than that now, but in that I think there was a fork in the road where a lot of people started going too far to the front end, too much running in the client. The answer to that isn't react is bad. View is bad. Backbone was bad. Angular was. I think of, uh, somebody that I know military vet saw an opportunity in government for a piece of software that needed to be built and he built it.It was really scrappy and it had angular. And then at some point there was a new feature. And so we used backbone for that. And then he used Ember and then he used react because each of those was the best tool for the job of the thing that he needed to build. But it was like bolted on top of a traditional rails model.And so I think the world that we're in right now, sort of canonically in rails with like Hotwire or stimulus, reflex, and cable. Ready, those get you, I think 80%, 90% of the way there. And then if you still need, I work on apps with react bolted on top. I don't do that work, but I think that philosophy pulling out the heavy machinery is the quote from the blog post.I think it's a solid answer [00:26:23] Andrew Mason: web company. That's where the front end is going. In my opinion. Why, why? Because having this entire framework to do maybe this smaller thing, It's kind of going out of style, but what I think is coming more into style is this idea of atomic things that you can put anywhere.And they work the same. I feel like that's the goal of just normal react components or something. It's like, oh, I can build this react component and I can use it everywhere, but that doesn't work in practice. Really. It's the same thing with like a rails partial. So I feel like we are trending more and more towards this idea of being able to like package the whole thing.And ship it and then wherever it shipped to, it has the ability to be configured to work in that environment. [00:27:07] Brittany Martin: So I'm curious on Andrew, do you feel that all rails developers should be full [00:27:10] Andrew Mason: stack? Yes, [00:27:11] Nick Schwaderer: I do. I don't have a stiff opinion on this, but I think that something that in wherever it goes, it needs to think of, I won't call anyone out.I'll say people like me, people like me, who in the eyes of the law are full-stack people like me who run from CSS and JS, but we. And our happiest and the pure Rubin about blah, blah, blah. But we like that rails can help us from the beginning, build a thing. I need to concern myself with my business logic and the problem and the user and what I need to solve for them.I need as little friction in the way. I'm glad that rails has moved, not just convention over configuration, but like having the support for all the ways that people want to build things. So they figured a friend who is an expert in a thing. They can build the thing on top, but we always need to make sure we support the ability to just build.I mean, I'm very interested in the new tooling that's coming out, but maybe there's some front end whizzes in here who disagree with me. But as long as we think of the people who are full-stack, but not really, but want to be one person builders, as long as we keep servicing that community, then I think we got, it's [00:28:15] Jason Charnes: going to sound like I'm sucking up because it's on the front row.But view components are kind of a big piece for us, like at podia of moving forward. The thing I like five very fascinating about it is I actually. I'm going to be burned alive at the end of this, I actually kind of like react, but I don't like the JavaScript part of it, but I like the idea of components.Sorry, sorry. I liked components, I guess it was on trying to say. And so I like the view component because things like sidecar assets where you can like attach JavaScript functionality, Sal sheets, it's kind of isolated. You can test it. I'm not saying like build your app with a full design system beginning as we've learned how to use them.Like at podia, it's been very valuable because. Now people like me who are like Schwartz that in the eyes of the law considered full stack developers, like we can ship consistent interfaces and we're not as worried about how they look every time we're just rendering out components. And I really, I think that's a good way we're moving as well.[00:29:15] Andrew Culver: One thing I'll say on that with the few components, I've also found. That there's anybody that that's out there looked at it and they're like, ah, I don't think view components are for me. I think partials also answer some great questions. Like you can go very far just with partials, so you don't have to go to some crazy front end framework.We've got a lot of tools on the backend, but it all falls under that umbrella of like HTML over the wire. I do think that that's a good place to be. Joe [00:29:45] Jemma Issroff: is asking how can we as open source developers or maintainers? Invite more folks, especially those who are underrepresented to contribute to the open-source community.Yeah, [00:29:56] Brittany Martin: Brittany, I think it is inviting those guests onto the show. My first episode that I ever recorded with Nick was his first poll request into rails. And we just dug into what that meant and how like he navigated it and discussing with their contributor. And just really trying to lower the bar and make it clear that it's accessible to everybody, but also making it clear to you, invite guests on that work on smaller projects.They don't have to be these large, big public projects and then encouraging them as well. Like after you wrap up that episode, Hey, have you considered, you know, supplying this Ruby weekly, they're always looking for content. So get your name out. The other [00:30:33] Chris Oliver: thing, another thing is like, you know, as a maintainer, there's a lot of things that are easy for you to fix that are quick, just like intentionally not do them and label it as a good contribution for somebody new and kind of work the process.If somebody is not sure how the flow goes, like have a whole kind of script of star here, work through it, write it down, like all the edge cases that you need to think of and leave those opportunities open, even though like you could fix it in five minutes yourself. It's nice to be able to have. Some of those, you know, left open on purpose.[00:31:11] Andrew Culver: I think we need to do more with all of our employers campaign, hard to donate substantially more amounts of money to the open-source projects that you use. I'm not talking 500 bucks. I'm not talking 500 bucks a month. I'm talking like we're going to dedicate 50 grand to this project that we get substantial economic value.I work on such a project, right? So I have an open source framework that people use on top of rails and we have substantial financial backing on the source side. And that doesn't all go to me that goes out to like seven or eight developers that help me on a regular basis. One of them it's the first professional Ruby he's ever written in his life.He's a English teacher in Japan. And so that comes from. And so I look at the projects when that was a commercial framework. And I look at the libraries that we use to support. And at 500 bucks a month to some of those projects that we were supporting, we were the highest pain contributor. That's ridiculous.We have to have a serious conversation. If we want to talk about getting juniors into open source contributions, we need to make a disconnect between open source being unpaid. We have so much money in the businesses that we're in. We're raising so much venture capital. We have so high margins let's donate more money to open source projects.Now, just to put [00:32:40] Robby Russell: in a little bit, a couple [00:32:41] Nick Schwaderer: of thoughts, number one, just write this down. If you're not already aware code triaged.com and then just go and look at it later. But if you're going to mentor a junior without it, it allows you to pick a couple of repository. And act settings and just like one polar request a week, I'll just get sent to your inbox.You can look at it and maybe it's somebody who has been ignored for years and you can like dig into that and learn a bit more. But it's passive first. You have to get that passive contributor experience going down, but what's the goal. Where am I trying to get with this as a junior or senior or an intermediate while I like this term.And I use a lot privately become an open source civilian. We're not all going to be full-time. Paid to maintain a thing, or some people very luckily are heavily in that, but I feel like we all have a duty as to be an open source civilian, and it's more than just like, oh, I found a bug it's like that passive work.And maybe just pick a couple of things to participate in. Now the final, I think directly to your point, what can we as casters, besides me just saying. What can we, as podcasters do to further that? I think we need to normalize that. I think we need to make sure that we do what we think people should do.And then we talk about it because I had listened to podcasts for many years before I ever was on, on, I lived in the country. I didn't talk to Rubius. So I really influenced how I thought about things. Like I remember listening to Derek Pryor and Sage Griffin years and years ago on bike shed and what they talked about.Their opinions and how they acted in their life. Really informed how I thought I ought to talk and act and we can do the same to say, oh yeah, yeah, that was just on blah, blah, blah repository. And I have to look at this PR firm a couple of years ago that got him from code triaged. She said that a couple of times people will be doing the same.It lowers the barrier. It makes it just a few hours a month and it becomes a good thing you can do, but like mowing your yard. [00:34:26] Robby Russell: I was going to say that one other strategy. I created this thing called once upon a time. There's been a couple thousand people that have contributed to the main project. I don't know how that's managed to happen, but there's a lot, but a lot of participation from people.And I think that project makes it easier for people to participate for. Sometimes it's quite often their first open-source project that they've contributed to. I didn't do anything intentionally. I don't have to feel like I have the secrets. At all there. But one thing that I have seen work effectively for me and other people that are helping maintain the project is we've had universities reach out to us.We've had small groups reach out to us. And so when they're like, Hey, we have this idea. We want to participate in, help, get involved in open source project. Can we help contribute to and inquire about this? And we'll be like, all right, well, cool. We're, we're gonna end up working with like three to five people.We can work on like a project. Maybe there's some ideas we've had for a while. It's sitting in the backlog. We haven't got to go through and review those things yet, or work on some new things. Your gut, some features when we do it in that sort of way, that's made it easier for us to kind of wrap our head around it.Cause we're not then. So just to saying like, I think it's really important to try to help the individuals that reach out to you and want to contribute. But if you're listening and you're like, I want to contribute, try to maybe find a few people that you'd want to contribute together with, and then you can approach a project and be like, Hey, we're a little more organized.We've got three of us. Someone's going to be a point of contact. This is what we're hoping to accomplish. This is our. What can we work on? How can we help your project move forward? That makes it way easier for me as a project maintainer, to figure out how I'm gonna wrap my head around what the goal is.And again, this is like a timebox to it. They're going to get something further collectively, and then they're going to work amongst themselves as well. So they're, you know, they're, they're able to help themselves. And that has been a helpful way for me to bring in people outside of the people that is individually.[00:36:07] Jemma Issroff: We're going to take one more question. Before we wrap up, John Manel is asking, how can we make our development environment mimic our production environment, especially if it's quite. [00:36:18] Andrew Culver: If somebody says, Docker, I'm outta here, Docker, you can use Docker, but your battery will last [00:36:23] Brittany Martin: for four hours. It's true. And I think we've always said that, you know, I've done episodes on this, where we talk about having something like the deployment, where it's just baked into the framework.And I truly don't believe that we're anywhere near that. It is a really good question. I feel your frustration, John, like it's really difficult to solve a bug when it's only something that's going to be present in the ecosystem that you've built in production. And let's not joke around. You might have read is going Alaska, search a CDN.There's just a lot of stuff. And to try to clone that locally as really [00:36:53] Robby Russell: difficult, I got to take the position that I don't think rails should solve that. I feel like if you're building out a SAS, there's like patterns you can follow. And I don't feel like that should be baked into rails. We've had Capistrano.We saw projects that we deployed with Capistrano. It works great for those projects. And, but we have a lot of ones that I'm like, I don't understand what happens when we push this stuff to a branch. Some magic happens, someone else made that stuff work and they don't understand the pipelines. That's okay.I'm not answering your question, but I don't feel like that should be a rails thing because I don't think we should have a strong opinion about where it gets deployed, but it gets back to the point around the development environment. Those are trade offs that each of those organizations, especially larger organizations.If you got an engineering team of 50 to a hundred people. We just wrapped up doing our biannual Ruby on rails survey, community survey, and the growing is like 11% or something. I don't remember the exact number. Our company had, 11% of teams are like 50 plus engineers right now. Or maybe it's like 14% or something like that.That's a lot of people, a lot of systems are probably in place. And so it's not going to be like, oh, this is really great. When there was like three of us on a team and we could all get everything up and running in like five minutes on our machines. No. How do we connect all these differences? We have serverless stuff.What is serverless even mean? But, um, so there's a lot of challenges there. I think that those are trade offs that each company is going to need to make in terms of infrastructure. And I don't know that developers should be always be the ones that are making long-term hosting solutions necessarily either kinda make decisions for the organization.[00:38:12] Andrew Mason: It's funny that Bernie said active deployment because in one of my first podcasts, in like 2018, maybe 2019, we had a guest who. Specifically named it active deployment. I'm pretty sure. So it's funny that we're still having this conversation, even though I feel like the ecosystem is getting better and better, there's more and more services to deploy your app.Like hatch box, fly render. I mean, you can keep going and going and going and going. So I don't feel like deployments getting harder. I feel like developers are complicating their setups more than they need to. And I feel like that's part of the problem. [00:38:45] Andrew Culver: Also, my dig at Docker was a joke. I don't love it. I use it every.Because of some of the complicated infrastructure stuff. So [00:38:53] Jemma Issroff: Chris Oliver, any thoughts there, it's [00:38:55] Chris Oliver: one of those things where, as a developer, you don't want to have to worry about the operation sides of things. You know, if you could get away without Docker and just have everything running and you have your dependencies and all that, that would be awesome.But yeah. At some point somebody's going, gonna kind of come up with a, an alternative to Docker that can probably mimic that a bit better. They're still solving a lot of problems on Docker itself. And I think eventually we'll see it, it probably won't come out of the rails ecosystem itself. It's kind of more of a DevOpsy area to work in.And so I feel like we're oftentimes just consumers of that activity that's going on instead of. Creating those things ourselves and the community. So part of me just feels like, you know, waiting for changes to happen and stuff like that. [00:39:46] Andrew Culver: One thing I want to point out, it's not directly related to what you're saying, but I think it's really exciting.And Chris didn't mention it because it isn't directly related. But I think when you look at hatch box, how many infrastructure companies can you think of all of those companies that are doing interesting infrastructure, things that are boots. The only ones I can think of are layer of L forge and you've got hatch box and that baby was grown in the rails ecosystem.And I don't think he's done yet. So I think there are exciting things happening in infrastructure, and I think that they can happen in the rails ecosystem. And I think that can be a call to action to anybody that's listening to this. So [00:40:26] Jemma Issroff: we have very many calls to action and that's a full cap. I just want to say thank you so much to all of our listeners, always, and especially the ones who are present today, watching this panel and thank you to everyone on the panel for being a part of it. .

Dr. Diwakar Davar and Dr. Jason Luke, both of the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center, share the latest news on immunotherapy trials KEYNOTE-A10, LIBRETTO-001, and other key IO studies across tumor types featured at the 2022 ASCO Annual Meeting.  Transcript Dr. Diwakar Davar: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Daily News Podcast. I am Dr. Diwakar Davar, and I'm an assistant professor of Medical Oncology in phase 1 therapeutics, at the University of Pittsburgh's Hillman Cancer Center, and the guest host of today's podcast. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. Jason Luke to this podcast. He's the director of the Cancer Immunotherapeutic Center at the Hillman Cancer Center, University of Pittsburgh, and a great colleague and friend.  Today we'll be discussing some key posters that highlight some advances in immunotherapy that will be featured and the 2022 ASCO Annual Meeting. You will find our collective disclosures in the show notes and the disclosures of all guests on the podcast are available on our transcripts at asco.org/podcasts.  So, Jason, thank you for coming on the podcast today.  Dr. Jason Luke: Well, thanks very much for the invitation. I always love doing these podcasts for ASCO, and never love anything more than hanging out with my friend Diwakar Davar.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Well, thank you! Below are the abstracts we've selected. We will start with Abstract 2504. This is a phase 1 trial of the TIM-3 inhibitor cobolimab monotherapy, singly and in combination with the PD-1 inhibitors nivolumab or dostarlimab. Phase 1 data from the AMBER trial with the presenting author being Dr. Gerald Falchook. And this is a trial that initially started several years ago. And I know Jason, that you were involved with the inception of this agent, that TIM-3 inhibitor. So, walk us through, TIM-3. It's a third-generation checkpoint, we now have TIGIT LAG coming into the landscape. Definitely a first indication for LAG-3 melanoma with a positive trial, RELATIVITY 047. So, where are we with TIM-3? Why should we be excited about TIM in general, and this data in particular?  Dr. Jason Luke: It is quite exciting, especially building off the recent data that we saw for relatlimab or LAG-3 because it's becoming clearer that a number of these other immune checkpoints that we have been talking about for many years, actually really can be effective when used in the right setting.  So, this drug, this anti-TIM-3 antibody cobolimab monotherapy, as you mentioned, started out in a phase 1 clinical trial dating all the way back to I think about 2015. And that was at the time in immuno-oncology when everybody was so excited, [and] they thought everything was going to work immediately.  Subsequent to that, obviously, we've had some hurdles that we've had to come over. But we're coming back to some of these agents now, which are looking very exciting. So, just in the same way we think about blocking PD-1 or now blocking LAG-3 to reinvigorate T cells in the tumor microenvironment, there's a good chance and a high probability based on preclinical data that blocking TIM-3 could be just as effective as blocking LAG-3, so to say.  Now, one thing that I note in this abstract is really the safety finding and early PK analysis. And so, this is the important work we do early on to understand the drug. It's important to be aware that in a study like this, it's very hard to seek efficacy signals.  So, when you see this poster, really, you probably shouldn't be thinking, ‘Oh, this is a frontline phase 3 trial,' but rather that the efficacy is going to be a secondary consideration. Rather, what's quite important is looking at the properties of the drug and looking at the safety signals around that. And what we can see here is that TIM-3 appears to be quite safe when blocking it in conjunction with anti-PD-1 across several different tumor types. And that really sets the stage then to think about moving this into earlier lines of therapy across many different cancers.  And so, here we see advanced solid tumors but focused on lung cancer and melanoma and kind of the usual tumors we think about, and people can keep their eyes open because there are other posters of this molecule with PD-1 in some of the other sections outside of developmental therapeutics.  Now, one thing I would like to get your opinion on because your group has focused a lot on TIM-3, as I described it as this T cell centric mechanism to reinvigorate exhausted T cells. But it's possible that TIM-3 does other things as well. And I don't know if you want to comment on that or give any other feedback that you've had when thinking about this AMBER Trial.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: That was an excellent summary, Jason, of really what is a truncated 8-year track record of developing this agent all the way from 2015. But you bring up a very interesting point, which is: exactly what does this drug does in the non-T-cell compartment?  Some very interesting data from Brian Ruffell in a paper that was published about 3 years ago now suggested that TIM-3 was actually potentially a myeloid checkpoint, meaning that, in a tumor model in which Dr. Ruffell was studying this in the context of breast cancer, the drug primarily appeared to work on the effect of antigen-presenting cells and augment the presentation of antigen to T cells suggesting that it may be, in addition to being a chronicle T cell exhaustion marker, it may also be reinvigorating antigen-presenting cells. And the question of whether or not the role of TIM-3 on APCs as well as the role of TIM-3 on T cells, and which of these compartments are more important, and how these compartments segregate in any given cancer across many different lines of therapy will hopefully be something that we disengage, and understand a little bit better as we look at biomarkers of this drug across different settings.  And especially to that point, Jason, the biomarker question, you'll notice that very interestingly, that was a signal in which that drug had a certain response rate. Again, as you correctly point out, we cannot read too much into response rates in very small patient numbers. But very interestingly, there was a slightly higher response rate at the 300 milligrams, which is not the top dose level of the drug, and a slightly lower response rate at the ceiling dose of the drug that was tested, 900 milligrams, leading the investigators to conclude that the RP2D, was actually 300 milligrams every 3 weeks and not 900 milligrams.  What are your thoughts on dose in the context of immunotherapy (IO) drug development? And why might it be that 300 is the optimal dose as opposed to 900?  Dr. Jason Luke: That's a complicated question. I mean, when we think about checkpoint blockade, we classically think about it as only blocking on T cells. But to your point, if there are multiple mechanisms in play, sort of modulating other cell compartments actually may start to do different things at different doses that maybe weren't our primary intent as we went into the trial.  That's a little bit of hand waving, immunologic hand waving, but I think the data are the data and once we hit an effective dose level, there's really no need to really push the dose that much further. But that really emphasizes the importance of these kinds of early phase clinical trials.  So, I'm really looking forward to seeing this data. For disclosure, obviously, we have both been investigators on this trial. But we're very excited about the idea that there may be hope for a fourth checkpoint to come forward in the field beyond just PD-1 CTLA-4, and LAG-3, maybe now here with TIM-3.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, with that we'll go to the next abstract and that is Abstract 2516, “Phase I trial of adjuvant autogene cevumeran, an individualized mRNA neoantigen vaccine, for pancreatic ductal adenocarcinoma.”  So, this is an mRNA vaccine from our good friend, BioNTech. And that's been essentially evaluated in the context of highly lethal cancer, pancreatic ductal cancer, and specifically in the context of adjuvant vaccines, specifically in the setting of patients who had followed definitive pancreatic cancer surgery.  So, Jason, you know a lot of neoantigen vaccines, you've led some of these trials, really, the neoantigen vaccine is really the primary reason we are actually having an in-person meeting this year, because if not for this company and others like this, really this pandemic would not be behind us.  What are your thoughts on the role of neoantigen vaccines in cancer therapeutics, and also, particularly this particular trial in the data, the immunological data, and the clinical data regarding the development of neoantigen-specific T cells in this setting, and what this means for you?  Dr. Jason Luke: Right. So, the idea of targeting neoantigens as cancer immunotherapy was really all the rage a few years back, and it was thought based on preclinical animal models that this was just going to be the secret sauce, and this would be the new targeted therapy for immunotherapy. And it isn't to say that that's not true, but the first generation of neoantigen, peptide-based vaccines for the most part, unfortunately, just kind of didn't end up moving the needle the way we had hoped.  The question then was raised: is that because targeting neoantigens isn't reasonable, or is that because the setting where we were trying to do it in the refractory disease area was not the optimal way to leverage this?  And so, a couple of different companies and trials now are coming forward looking at targeting neoantigen in a minimal residual disease setting where the idea could be that immunologic responses that you could generate wouldn't be hampered by all the immunosuppression associated with the tumor microenvironment.  And so, here we have this molecule, which you eloquently pronounced, ‘autogene cevumeran.' It's an RNA-lipoplex neoantigen vaccine. So, it's not a peptide. It's more like the COVID-19 vaccines actually. And it's being given after surgery, followed by anti-PD-L1 followed by chemotherapy.  So, it's a complicated regimen, but it's very intriguing these early data, which do show that the patients who got the vaccine seemed to have better and longer-term outcomes. But then as you emphasize, really, I think probably what's at the heart of this that really makes it exciting is their ability to immune monitor the patients, meaning to look for antigen-specific immune cells from the peripheral blood in these patients to be able to identify those immune responses as being specific to cancer. Because this kind of a clinical trial, it's still signal seeking and proof of concept kind of trial.  In order to actually establish that a vaccine approach in a post-surgical setting would have efficacy, we need to do a large randomized trial. And so, this is not that yet. But I think these data really point in the direction that that could be a reasonable thing to try. And when you think about pancreatic cancer, where we've made no success with immunotherapy, really in a meaningful way in terms of checkpoint blockade, at least, that's pretty exciting actually to think about.  I would actually marry this dataset with another that we actually saw at the American Association for Cancer Research (AACR) meeting that also looked at neoantigen targeting and antigen-specific responses in colorectal cancer, again, and in a similar setting with the minimal residual disease setting.  And so, I think this highlights that we may need to start thinking about using immunotherapy in different ways than we had before. Obviously, everybody knows about using PD-1 blockade in lots of different cancer types that are really for metastatic disease, or maybe even for adjuvant now in melanoma a little bit. But maybe there's this space, which is the minimal residual disease setting where you might be able to detect by ctDNA after surgery, the patients are still positive. And maybe you could treat that before there's visible cancer, and maybe certain immunotherapies could be more valuable in that setting than others. And that's where I think maybe some of these mRNA technologies really might find their sweet spot.  So, coming back to this abstract, I think really, the emphasis point here is the novelty of generating patient-specific neoantigen vaccines, and then being able to track linearly over time the immune response against those vaccines.  I think with that kind of technology and being able to leverage that, I think we're really headed towards a real shift in the way we think about managing cancer in a post-surgical setting, again, thinking about MRD, or minimal residual disease, maybe in a way that our leukemia colleagues have been thinking it about for a long time.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: That's an excellent summary of a very, very complicated, both setting, and in this case, a therapeutic landscape. So, well said, well summarized, and we'll now pivot to Abstract 2514. So, this is ‘Efficacy and safety of NT-I7, long-acting interleukin-7, plus pembrolizumab in patients with advanced solid tumors: Results from the phase 2a study' [and] the presenting author is Dr. Aung Naing from [The University of Texas] MD Anderson [Cancer Center].  So, Jason, you know, with checkpoints, we've got so many thoughts about checkpoints, particularly given the rather unfortunate failure of BEMPEG in the context of melanoma.  So, we've got lots of interesting cytokines that we think of as important in the context of immuno-oncology 2, certainly 12, 15. You've been very involved with IO-15. We've got a lot of clinical trials studying IL-12. And now we've got one studying IL-7. So, tell us what do you think of this IL-7 targeting approach in the context of cytokine-based therapeutics?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think it's really important to emphasize on first principles, for those that are listening, who don't think about immunology all the time that not all cytokines are the same thing.  So, interleukin 2 that many people have heard of is very different actually than interferon. And that's very different from many of the other cytokines, the ILs, and everything, right?  So, IL-7 is a very potent cytokine that's associated with the expansion of immune responses, and that can drive interferon gamma-dependent effects. And you should hear whenever I say interferon-gamma is sort of a link through to PD-1 responsiveness. Because we think the mechanism that underpins anti-PD-1 effectiveness in patients really is interferon gamma biology.  So, IL-7 has been a molecule, it's been of a lot of interest but really was too toxic to try to deliver. But now we have novel drug delivery sorts of approaches that are being developed to try to bring the drug in, in a way that doesn't cause such systemic toxicity.  So, in this clinical trial, this NT-I7 molecule is given intramuscularly, every 6 weeks in conjunction with pembrolizumab, and very interestingly, in a small number of patients, but there were resist responses observed across a series of tumors that you really wouldn't expect should be responsive in any way to pembrolizumab alone. And so, we're talking about microsatellite stable colorectal cancer, pancreatic cancer, and some others as well.  And in conjunction with that, they were able to identify some of the biomarker effects we would think we would see with IL-7, such as expansion of peripheral immune compartments. And the toxicity profile was really consistent with what we've seen with fevers and chills, but manageable in a way that previous approaches really weren't.  So, I think this is really exciting because I think the idea here then is with this IL-7 approach, we might expand the kinds of cancers that we could go after, in conjunction with anti-PD-1 again, pancreas, colorectal cancer. I think that's really where the unmet need lies in oncology.  So, I really applaud these kinds of approaches and several of these cytokine approaches, and what we're going to talk about them, I think, have the potential to do that over the next couple of years.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Excellent! Pivoting now to a different cytokine, but one that was alluded to before IL-12. So, Abstract 2518 is ‘Phase II evaluation of the combination of PDS0101, M9241, and bintrafusp alfa in patients with HPV 16+ malignancies,' and the presenting author here is Dr. Julius Strauss of the NCI Cancer Center and the Clinical Center of the National Cancer Institute at the National Institutes of Health.  So, what do you think, Jason, about the role of the HPV targeting vaccine, in this case, that was added to IL-12 immune-cytokine and bintrafusp alpha contextualizing the recent data that we have of bintra along with what is a very interesting result here?  Dr. Jason Luke: Yes, I think building on the last abstract where we talked about IL-7 as some novel biology now we move to IL-12, which again introduces other biology. So, interleukin-12 is a complicated cytokine, but one that's strongly associated with initial immune responses or immune priming, as well as enhancement of anti-tumor effects in the tumor microenvironment.  So, here we have sort of a 3-legged approach. So, the vaccination approach against HPV really can generate a strong immune response initially, and that can be supported with the IL-12. And then you come in with anti-PD-L1 and to whatever extent the TGF data is relevant here. And so, you have this cocktail where you're generating tumor-specific responses with a vaccine, you're supporting them with IL-12, and then blocking PD-L1.  And as we go back even a couple of abstracts we talked about, now we sort of have a cocktail right of approaches. And so, I think this is very exciting. It's unique in that, in these tumors, obviously, HPV is the driving force of cancer. So, developing a vaccine against that is fairly straightforward. But I really like this concept of bringing forward sort of a multi-dimensional immunotherapy approach. And we'll note they have previously presented data on this trial, I think last year at ASCO, actually. But what they see are pretty strong response rates, almost 30% range in PD-1 refractory tumors.  Again, that's our area of really high unmet need. It's hard to read through how useful a PD-1 naive treated patient here, although the response rates were high. But to me, it's really those patients who had progressed on PD-1 where they're getting these responses that tells me that this really could be something that's useful and potentially could be expanded beyond just say head neck cancer to any HPV relevant malignancy.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Excellent! Now on to our last abstract. Abstract 2520, ‘Effect of intratumoral INT230-6 on tumor necrosis and promotion of a systemic immune response: Results from a multicenter phase 1/2 study of solid tumors with and without pembrolizumab (PEM) [Intensity IT-01; Merck KEYNOTE-A10].' The first author is Dr. Jacob Thomas.  Jason, we've seen a lot of interesting intratumoral therapies. You and I have both done a lot of studies in looking at intratumoral agents from toll-like receptor agonists, TLR-9, TLR 7-8, and more recently, oncolytic viruses.  So, contextualizing IT230-6 in the spectrum of intratumoral therapies, how do you feel about this drug, which is actually a very interesting novel drug. It's not just a TLR agonist, or for that matter, an OV, very interestingly, it's an intratumoral therapy that has actually got chemotherapy in it. So, how do you feel about this drug? How do you feel about the responses that we've seen? And particularly how do you feel about the setting in neoadjuvant breast cancer?  Dr. Jason Luke: Yeah. I would pick up where you said that this drug INT230-6 is just a really interesting concoction. So, it's cisplatin mixed with vinblastine, in a specific amphiphilic molecule that allows it to diffuse in through the cancer.  And so, if you had said that to me a few years ago, I would have looked at you and been like, ‘What are you talking about?' But I think the data that's been emerging for this is just really interesting because something about this chemotherapy cocktail actually drives immune responses. And really what the focus of this abstract is on is showing that you get an influx of CD foreign CDTa cells into the tumor microenvironment that's associated with a therapeutic benefit.  I think that's just really, really interesting to think about. It sort of makes one wonder when we're doing these intratumoral injections, how much of it is just the injection, and how much of it is the therapeutic agent, but I think it's a really novel therapy, and one that appears to be very well tolerated as well. And that's also the exciting part. When you hear cisplatin and vinblastine, you think, ‘Oh, well, that's not going to work.'  But apparently, it stays right in the tumor and generates these immune effects. I think it's very exciting. I think their approach here—going after what we usually call cold tumors, ones that don't respond to immunotherapy, you mentioned breast cancer—I think it's really interesting. I'm really looking forward to seeing the actual data from this abstract because, on first pass, it wouldn't have been what I thought about in terms of driving immune responses, but maybe it just goes to show that there's a lot more to understand there about immunogenic cell death and some of these other concepts that we bandy about. But I think this will be one of the most interesting abstracts actually to see the data for once it's available.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Great! Taking a slight pivot from that. You've been involved in the development of novel response endpoints. One of the issues that we have with intratumoral therapies is that you're measuring a lesion that you inject, so now you inject something and it gets a little bigger. Is it getting bigger because it's growing? Is it getting bigger because the drug is working? We don't know. We have now itRECIST, which you have been working on.  What's very interesting is that whether you look at itRECIST, or RECIST, irRECIST, or imRECIST, when you have the monopoly of different response endpoints we have to deal with these days, these patients have monotherapy responses in non-injected tumors. How do you feel about that as a drug developer and somebody who's giving patients drugs like that? What is your impression of having shrinkage in the non-injected tumor?  Dr. Jason Luke: I think it's really exciting about this concept of the abscopal effect that we've bandied about for years. Despite being an investigator in this space, I'm really excited to actually see the data and to understand what these out of field responses are. If it's really true that this is robust, I mean, it could potentially be like a game-changer kind of thing. But I'll reserve judgment until I see the actual scans of the tumors that actually shrank that weren't injected.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: Fantastic insights, Jason. So, thank you for taking the time to join us on this podcast and to highlight these extraordinarily important advances in immunotherapy.  Dr. Jason Luke: I appreciate the opportunity to participate today.  Dr. Diwakar Davar: So, thank you, and thank you to our listeners for your time today, you will find the links to the abstracts that we discussed today in the transcript of the episode.  Finally, if you're enjoying the content on the ASCO Daily News podcast, please take a moment to rate review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.  So, thank you, Jason. And thank you to the team for putting this together.      Disclosures:   Dr. Diwakar Davar:   Honoraria: Merck, Tesaro, Array BioPharma, Immunocore, Instil Bio, Vedanta Biosciences  Consulting or Advisory Role: Instil Bio, Shionogi (Immediate Family Member), Vedanta Biosciences  Research Funding: Merck, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CellSight Technologies, Zucero Therapeutics (Inst), GSK, Merck, Arcus Biosciences  Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Application No.: 63/124,231, and Enteric Microbiotype Signatures of Immune-related Adverse Events and Response in Relation to Anti-PD-1 Immunotherapy  Dr. Jason Luke:  Stock and Other Ownership Interests: Actym Therapeutics, Mavu Pharmaceutical, Pyxis, Alphamab Oncology, Tempest Therapeutics, Kanaph Therapeutics, Onc.AI, Arch Oncology, Stipe, NeoTX   Consulting or Advisory Role: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Merck, EMD Serono, Novartis, 7 Hills Pharma, Janssen, Reflexion Medical, Tempest Therapeutics, Alphamab Oncology, Spring Bank, Abbvie, Astellas Pharma, Bayer, Incyte, Mersana, Partner Therapeutics, Synlogic, Eisai, Werewolf, Ribon Therapeutics, Checkmate Pharmaceuticals, CStone Pharmaceuticals, Nektar, Regeneron, Rubius, Tesaro, Xilio, Xencor, Alnylam, Crown Bioscience, Flame Biosciences, Genentech, Kadmon, KSQ Therapeutics, Immunocore, Inzen, Pfizer, Silicon Therapeutics, TRex Bio, Bright Peak, Onc.AI, Stipe, Codiak Biosciences, Day One Therapeutics, Endeavor, Gilead Sciences , Hotspot Therapeutics, SERVIER , STINGthera, Synthekine  Research Funding (Inst): Merck, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Incyte, Corvus Pharmaceuticals, Abbvie, Macrogenics, Xencor, Array BioPharma, Agios, Astellas Pharma, EMD Serono, Immatics, Kadmon, Moderna Therapeutics, Nektar, Spring bank, Trishula, KAHR Medical, Fstar, Genmab, Ikena Oncology, Numab, Replimmune, Rubius Therapeutics, Synlogic, Takeda, Tizona Therapeutics, Inc., BioNTech AG, Scholar Rock, Next Cure  Patents, Royalties, Other Intellectual Property: Serial #15/612,657 (Cancer Immunotherapy), and Serial #PCT/US18/36052 (Microbiome Biomarkers for Anti-PD-1/PD-L1 Responsiveness: Diagnostic, Prognostic and Therapeutic Uses Thereof)  Travel, Accommodations, Expenses: Bristol-Myers Squibb, Array BioPharma, EMD Serono, Janssen, Merck, Novartis, Reflexion Medical, Mersana, Pyxis, Xilio  Disclaimer:   The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.  Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. 

Vous n'avez pas pu y échapper si vous suivez l'actualité d'internet... la semaine dernière s'est tenu un événement que l'on a rapidement rebaptisé Pixel War, la Guerre des Pixels, notamment pour l'implication de la communauté française du stream sur la plateforme Twitch. Si vous ne voyez pas de quoi il s'agit, pas de panique, je vous propose de revivre les moments forts de l'événement dans cet épisode. Tout s'est déroulé sur le réseau social Reddit. Le 1er avril dernier, une immense page blanche apparaît dans un groupe intitulé r/Place. Les utilisateurs sont invités à placer le pixel de la couleur leur choix où bon leur semble toutes les 5 minutes, et ce de façon totalement gratuite pour créer un dessin, une forme, un logo qui ensuite sera intégré à une gigantesque fresque collective. Si l'événement était initialement réservé à la communauté Reddit, ce qu'on appelle aujourd'hui la « Pixel War » a pris une toute autre ampleur grâce à Twitch et notamment aux streamers français Kameto et Zerator. Leur objectif : créer une véritable œuvre d'art hommage à la France avec entre autre les effigies de Zinedine Zidane, Thomas Pesquet et Daft Punk, la pyramide du Louvre, un croissant, l'arc de triomphe, ou encore deux œufs de dragon en référence au jeu vidéo Dofus, le tout sur fond d'un immense drapeau tricolore occupant une bonne partie de la zone inférieure gauche de la page, en comparaison avec les autres contributions des internautes. Mais cet élan artistique, plusieurs streamers étrangers ne l'ont pas vu d'un bon œil. Forcément, l'espace s'est rapidement rempli, au point que pour s'étendre davantage, il fallait empiéter sur le voisin. Enfin, surtout dans dans le coin inférieur gauche, là où étaient les français, car sur le reste de la page, aucune tension spéciale à signaler. Que s'est-il passé concrètement ? Côté français, le paroxysme de cet événement a eu lieu les 3 et 4 avril quand un bras de fer s'est engagé avec une coalition de streamers espagnols et américains. Pour une raison encore obscure, ces derniers, emmenées par Ibai et Rubius ne semblaient avoir qu'un seul but : détruire le pixel art français. C'était sans compter sur la solidarité française déjà éprouvée par le passé avec le ZEvent, cet événement caritatif qui chaque année permet de lever plusieurs millions d'euros en faveur d'une association. Face aux assauts répétés des espagnols et des américains, l'œuvre française a plutôt bien tenue, capable de reconstruire les parties détruites en seulement quelques minutes grâce à une stratégie bien huilée intitulée : printemps, été, automne, hiver. Comme je vous le disait précédemment, chaque utilisateur ne pouvait placer qu'un pixel toutes les 5 minutes. En divisant la communauté française en 4 groupes, Kameto, Zerator et compagnie pouvaient dès lors compter sur une force de frappe toujours aussi nombreuse toutes les 75 secondes, de quoi rendre fou leurs assaillants, clamant à l'envie que les français trichaient en employant des bots, ou en français des robots informatiques paramétrés pour poser automatique les pixels. Malheureusement pour les espagnols, ce sont plusieurs centaines de milliers d'internautes français qui se sont prêtés au jeu pour défendre la magnifique fresque initiée par Kameto et ses amis. Ce dernier s'est d'ailleurs montré très ferme : aucun compromis face à un adversaire optant pour la stratégie du mensonge et de la destruction. Sur Youtube de nombreuses vidéos récapitulatives montrent l'ampleur de l'événement qui, plus qu'une simple fresque collaborative, aura été une formidable preuve de l'union d'internet pour porter aux et fort les symboles de la France. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vous n'avez pas pu y échapper si vous suivez l'actualité d'internet... la semaine dernière s'est tenu un événement que l'on a rapidement rebaptisé Pixel War, la Guerre des Pixels, notamment pour l'implication de la communauté française du stream sur la plateforme Twitch. Si vous ne voyez pas de quoi il s'agit, pas de panique, je vous propose de revivre les moments forts de l'événement dans cet épisode.Tout s'est déroulé sur le réseau social Reddit. Le 1er avril dernier, une immense page blanche apparaît dans un groupe intitulé r/Place. Les utilisateurs sont invités à placer le pixel de la couleur leur choix où bon leur semble toutes les 5 minutes, et ce de façon totalement gratuite pour créer un dessin, une forme, un logo qui ensuite sera intégré à une gigantesque fresque collective. Si l'événement était initialement réservé à la communauté Reddit, ce qu'on appelle aujourd'hui la « Pixel War » a pris une toute autre ampleur grâce à Twitch et notamment aux streamers français Kameto et Zerator. Leur objectif : créer une véritable œuvre d'art hommage à la France avec entre autre les effigies de Zinedine Zidane, Thomas Pesquet et Daft Punk, la pyramide du Louvre, un croissant, l'arc de triomphe, ou encore deux œufs de dragon en référence au jeu vidéo Dofus, le tout sur fond d'un immense drapeau tricolore occupant une bonne partie de la zone inférieure gauche de la page, en comparaison avec les autres contributions des internautes. Mais cet élan artistique, plusieurs streamers étrangers ne l'ont pas vu d'un bon œil.Forcément, l'espace s'est rapidement rempli, au point que pour s'étendre davantage, il fallait empiéter sur le voisin. Enfin, surtout dans dans le coin inférieur gauche, là où étaient les français, car sur le reste de la page, aucune tension spéciale à signaler. Que s'est-il passé concrètement ? Côté français, le paroxysme de cet événement a eu lieu les 3 et 4 avril quand un bras de fer s'est engagé avec une coalition de streamers espagnols et américains. Pour une raison encore obscure, ces derniers, emmenées par Ibai et Rubius ne semblaient avoir qu'un seul but : détruire le pixel art français. C'était sans compter sur la solidarité française déjà éprouvée par le passé avec le ZEvent, cet événement caritatif qui chaque année permet de lever plusieurs millions d'euros en faveur d'une association. Face aux assauts répétés des espagnols et des américains, l'œuvre française a plutôt bien tenue, capable de reconstruire les parties détruites en seulement quelques minutes grâce à une stratégie bien huilée intitulée : printemps, été, automne, hiver. Comme je vous le disait précédemment, chaque utilisateur ne pouvait placer qu'un pixel toutes les 5 minutes. En divisant la communauté française en 4 groupes, Kameto, Zerator et compagnie pouvaient dès lors compter sur une force de frappe toujours aussi nombreuse toutes les 75 secondes, de quoi rendre fou leurs assaillants, clamant à l'envie que les français trichaient en employant des bots, ou en français des robots informatiques paramétrés pour poser automatique les pixels.Malheureusement pour les espagnols, ce sont plusieurs centaines de milliers d'internautes français qui se sont prêtés au jeu pour défendre la magnifique fresque initiée par Kameto et ses amis. Ce dernier s'est d'ailleurs montré très ferme : aucun compromis face à un adversaire optant pour la stratégie du mensonge et de la destruction. Sur Youtube de nombreuses vidéos récapitulatives montrent l'ampleur de l'événement qui, plus qu'une simple fresque collaborative, aura été une formidable preuve de l'union d'internet pour porter aux et fort les symboles de la France. Hébergé par Acast. Visitez acast.com/privacy pour plus d'informations.

¡Hoy hablamos de análisis de datos en crowdfunding! Buenos días, os damos la bienvenida a una nueva entrega de Mecenas FM, el podcast en el que hablamos de crowdfunding. Como siempre, hablamos de noticias, campañas y estrategias. Hoy hablamos de cómo no hacer anuncios en crowdfunding. Pero en primer lugar veremos algunas novedades del sector del crowdfunding. Hoy os traemos la noticia de unas personas que se han comprado una isla en el Caribe por crowdfunding. En segundo lugar hablamos de una startup que ha conseguido 3,5 millones por crowdfunding, café a café. Y en tercer lugar hablamos de cómo el CEO de Kickstarter ha cambiado de aires y ha renunciado. Y ahora pasamos al tema del día. ¡Vamos a ello! Cómo NO hacer anuncios en crowdfunding | Veamos 3 claves ¿Haces anuncios, funcionan y… no molestan? Hoy repasaremos 3 claves de cómo no hacer anuncios. ¿Por qué? Básicamente porque hay poca información al respecto y es igual de importante que las claves para saber cómo anunciar tu proyecto. ¿Os parece? ¡Pues allá vamos! No hay que interrumpir Si quieres compromiso, no insistas. El “bajón” de los anuncios de YouTube. El problema de los anuncios repetitivos (Tropicfeel). Perseguir sólo la venta no es el camino. Del marketing habitual al marketing de comunidades. Marketing no invasivo. Marketing colaborativo. No vender lo creado, cocrear lo que se venderá. Estrategia a medio y largo plazo. Proteger la reputación. No molestar por repetición. No manchar tu reputación. Ejemplos: Blue Banana. Hypescraper. No hables sólo de tu libro El compañero de universidad que te contacta por su libro. Cuidar las relaciones. Aportar valor con contenido, no hablar de lo que vendes. Si no cuidas a la comunidad, no responderán cuando toca. Grado de satisfacción de la audiencia. Grado de motivación personal. Buscar el tipo de contenido adecuado y pivotar si hace falta. Ponerse en modo espectador. Ejemplos: El parón de Pakinov. La enfermedad del Rubius. No te centres en formatos obsoletos Google no pone vallas publicitarias. De los banners a los vídeos. De los vídeos a los streams. Decidir el mejor formato. Evolución del contenido. Hacer pruebas de forma regular. Ejemplos: Paco Hernández en TikTok. Su evolución en YouTube. Enlaces del episodio Clase en vanacco.com de ICO (Initial Coin Offering). * Clase en vanacco.com de opciones blockchain para proyectos. Clase en vanacco.com de

Nueva tertulia en The Wild Project con las noticias más interesantes de los últimos días. En este episodio: Una pareja de youtubers americanos pueden ir 7 años a la cárcel por la tontería que hicieron en su último vídeo, Rubius está más de una semana en un extensible y consigue un dineral para los animales, Sigue la invasión de Ucrania por parte de Rusia, Elon Musk reta a Putin a un combate para solucionarlo todo, Bruce Willis ha hecho 18 películas en 2 años, Jordi Wild es sorprendido con un regalazo... y mucho más. ¡No te lo pierdas! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Creamos una bolsa de empleo para personas con acondroplasia En este capítulo, el primero de febrero, hablamos de nuestras tres pelis favoritas, sobre por qué está todo tan caro, nuestro picante favorito, Blancanieves, la burguer del Rubius, Spotify y Joe Rogan y muchas cosas más. Además hablamos de estas series y pelis: Yo soy Giorgina Ozark The Leftovers La Abuela Predestination Pulp Fiction

Fundador de Vizz Agency, agencia creativa y de representación de influencers en YouTube, como el Rubius o Willyrex, y del equipo Dux de esports. Xavi Robles es nuestro invitado de La Bolsa De Deporte. El éxito de sus proyectos, como el de Dux, ha atraído a inversores de la talla de Borja Iglesias, Thibaut Cortuois o DJMariio. Su próximo objetivo es crear un ecosistema de contenido y, para ello, ha hecho ya su incursión también en los equipos de fútbol tradicionales y en la NBA. Reconoce que se ha interesado desde hace poco en la Bolsa y otros activos, porque para él hay dos cuestiones clave para confiar tus ahorros y destinarlos a la inversión (él asegura no tener del todo todavía): la paciencia ante la constante incertidumbre de los mercados y la confianza en tu asesor.

Hoy en The Wild Project: El Rubius, no hace falta decir mucho más. La gran leyenda de youtube y del entretenimiento en español en una charla de casi tres horas en las que habla con Jordi Wild de absolutamente todo. ¡No os lo perdáis! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

20 de enero | Nueva YorkHola, maricoper. He tenido un mal cuerpo todo el día después de mi breve (pero intensa) participación en la primera jornada del torneo de ‘El juego del calamar' en Minecraft que han organizado streamers como Rubius y Auronplay. Si no lo seguiste en directo y quieres echarte unas risas, tienes el directo completo aquí.Bienvenido a La Wikly diaria, una columna de actualidad y dos titulares rápidos para pasar el resto del día bien informado. Si quieres comentar las noticias en nuestra comunidad privada de Discord, puedes entrar rellenando este formulario.Comparte esta newsletter con familiares y amigos para que se pongan al día:Leer esta newsletter te llevará 5 minutos y 34 segundos.Glee sigue creando estrellas. Bienvenido a La Wikly.

19 de enero | Nueva YorkHola, maricoper. Me han invitado a participar en una versión de El juego del calamar en Minecraft en la que participarán mogollón de streamers como Ibai, Rubius y Auronplay. No sé si seré el único atontao que no ha jugado al Minecraft en su vida, pero la cosa promete teniendo en cuenta que probablemente no dure más de dos segundos vivo.* Os espero en mi Twitch para animarme a eso de las 18:30 hora peninsular española.Bienvenido a La Wikly diaria, una columna de actualidad y dos titulares rápidos para pasar el resto del día bien informado. Si quieres comentar las noticias en nuestra comunidad privada de Discord, puedes entrar rellenando este formulario.Comparte esta newsletter con familiares y amigos para que se pongan al día:Leer esta newsletter te llevará 5 minutos y 12 segundos.Es una teoría. Bienvenido a La Wikly.

Programa de jueves con crónica de la victoria de las chicas del Barça de fútbol en Champions. Dani Álves podría volver al Barça en enero. Aminata Diallo detenida por una paliza a la ex azulgrana Hamraoui. Ramón Planes pide dejar el Barcelona. La lesión de Ansu menos de lo esperado. Pep Guardiola visita el entrenamiento del Girona. El Madrid a la caza del hasta ahora director deportivo del Liverpool. Bale y su agente tuvieron unas palabritas al inicio de su relación laboral. EL Barça a punto de cerrar un acuerdo de patrocinio de las mangas de sus equipaciones. El viaje del Kun a Andorra de visita al Rubius.

Willyrex? Rubius? German? Con que Youtuber sueñan los youtuber para colaborar.

02 22-02-21 LHDW Luis Marina nos descubre los impuestos que se pagan en España tras filtrarse los datos del Rubius

02 03-02-21 LHDW Fernando Onega, como siempre, entregado al servicio del poder, contra el Rubius, llamo a Juanma Brum

Este episodio es un completo experimento. Surge a raíz de una polémica donde uno de los youtubers españoles más grandes, decide irse a vivir a Andorra. Hablar del Rubius es conseguir clicks fáciles, los medios lo saben y han ido con todo a por él. Profundizaremos en temas tan diversos como la libre movilidad internacional, el dilema de si naces en un país tienes que tributar en él y los incentivos que tienen los medios para criticar de esta forma a Rubén. Encuéntranos en: Web: https://elrincondeaquiles.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erda.podcast

Este episodio es un completo experimento. Surge a raíz de una polémica donde uno de los youtubers españoles más grandes, decide irse a vivir a Andorra. Hablar del Rubius es conseguir clicks fáciles, los medios lo saben y han ido con todo a por él. Profundizaremos en temas tan diversos como la libre movilidad internacional, el dilema de si naces en un país tienes que tributar en él y los incentivos que tienen los medios para criticar de esta forma a Rubén. Encuéntranos en: Web: https://elrincondeaquiles.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/erda.podcast

02 20-01-21 LHDW El Youtuber, el Rubius, se va a tributar a Andorra, y yo porque no puedo, me iba con él mañana

[FRAGMENTO] Episodio 77. Led nos habla de la polémica que despertó en redes sociales el anuncio del youtuber Rubius de mudarse para Andorra, donde se declaran muchos menos impuestos que en España. También hablaremos del cura youtuber Smdani, quien tomó fama analizando distintas canciones de Canserbero. Comentaremos la ciudad futurista que se está construyendo en Arabia Saudita, llamada The Line, donde no existirán carros, calles, ni emisiones de carbono.