Podcasts about paso robles

It's time for Team Sweasey to break down critical market statistics shaping the San Luis Obispo housing landscape. The team explores a striking trend: the average first-time homebuyer is now 38 years old, a decade older than the 28-year-old average in 1991, and that age is likely to go up with the shift in home sellers, with the average age jumping from 47 in 2005 to 63 today. Owners see the benefit of staying put with locked in low interest rates and property tax savings. With inventory tight and no significant new construction on the horizon, Team Sweasey discusses how these dynamics fuel rising prices and limited options, making it harder for buyers to enter the market. In this episode they share creative solutions, like house hacking in Paso Robles or even recycling, to get your seed money. Packed with actionable insights, the episode underscores the urgency of starting early, leveraging expert guidance with an agent, and rethinking inheritance to build wealth through real estate. It's time for Team Sweasey to take a data-driven look at why now, is the time to act in SLO County's competitive market! Like, subscribe, and send your questions for Team Sweasey to tackle in future episodes. Text them in at 805-244-1170, Be Sure to Subscribe to Team Sweasey on YouTube @halsweasey for quick tips and full episodes of the SLO County Real Estate Podcast with Hal Sweasey. California DRE #01111911

Spices add extra flavor to our meals, how long can we keep them, how should we store them, what should we look for when buying them? We'll have these answers and much more from Ethan Frisch, Co-Owner of Burlap and Barrel Single Origin Spice Company. Sommelier Jacqueline Colemen speaks with Daniel Daou, co-founder and winemaker at DAOU Family Estates in Paso Robles.

For his segment Bookwaves, KCBX's Brian Reynolds speaks with award-winning author and activist Lucy Jane Bledsoe about how attitudes towards the LGBTQ community have or have not changed and about one novel in particular titled “Tell the Rest.” Bledsoe will be speaking on Saturday, June 14th at the Atascadero Library from 12-2pm and San Luis Obispo library from 4-5 pm. Then, Wine Country with Mira Honeycutt who is a Central Coast author and wine journalist. She's also the co-author of the recently published book, "Sideways Uncorked: The Perfect Pairing of Film & Wine." Mira speaks with winemaker Dave McGee, owner of Monochrome Wines and founder of the festival White Wine Invitational that is happening on Friday, June 20th from 4-7 pm in Paso Robles. Dave talks to Mira about the motivation behind the invitational and the world of white wines. This is followed by Meher Ali's interview with Grant Helete, Program Coordinator at the Environmental Center of San Luis Obispo or ECOSLO about their annual fundraiser and programs in SLO county from cleanup to nature awareness to tree planting. Their annual fundraiser is happening this Saturday on June 14th at The Octagon Barn from 4-8pm and tickets are on sale at ecoslo.com. Last is a story by Katie Brown, a reporter at KAZU 90.3, and her story has been sourced from The California Report, where she reports on food insecurity facing Central coast farmworkers and how it is being exacerbated because of raids by the U.S. Immigration Customs…

On this episode of The Jered Williams Show, Jered sits down with Nate Santos, owner of Santos Bros Plumbing in Paso Robles, California. Nate shares his journey from reluctantly joining his uncle's plumbing company to launching his own with his brother, building a brand that stands out with cowboy hats, overalls, and next-level customer service. They dive into hiring struggles, pricing confidence, and the value of character over experience. Nate also talks about his passion for horses, mariachi shows on horseback, and how plumbing funds his dream lifestyle. It's a raw, honest, and a fresh look at what it takes to grow a service business in a small town.

Can hybrid grapes revolutionize the wine world? Adam Huss — Host of the Beyond Organic podcast and Co-owner of Centralas Cellars breaks down what a hybrid truly is, explaining how traditional breeding — and nature itself — has long crossed grape species. With over 70 grape species worldwide, today's modern hybrids are the result of generations of crossing, backcrossing, and innovation. We explore the impact of WWII on agriculture, France's ban on hybrids in appellation wines, and why developing new hybrids is critical for disease resistance, flavor discovery, and more sustainable farming. Plus, Adam shares insights into trialing the “married vine” system — a potential game-changer for soil health, pest management, and flavor expression. Resources:         135: Cold Hardiness of Grapevines 217: Combating Climate Chaos with Adaptive Winegrape Varieties 227: Andy Walkers' Pierces Disease-Resistant Grapes are a Success at Ojai Vineyard Adam Huss – LinkedIn Centralas Organic Wine Podcast South Central Los Angeles Couple Opens New Winery Dedicated to Organic Values, Transparency, Inclusion Wine's F- Word Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:03] Beth Vukmanic: Welcome to Sustainable Wine Growing with Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, Executive Director [00:00:13] In today's podcast, Craig Macmillan, critical resource manager at Niner Wine Estates with longtime SIP Certified Vineyard in the first ever. SIP Certified Winery speaks with Adam Huss, host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and co-owner of Centralis Cellars. [00:00:32] Adam breaks down what a hybrid truly is, explaining how traditional breeding and nature itself has long crossed grape species with over 70 grape species worldwide. Today's modern hybrids are the result of generations of crossing, backcrossing, and innovation. [00:00:50] We explore the impact of World War II on agriculture, France's ban on hybrids and Appalachian wines, and why developing new hybrids is critical for disease resistance, flavor discovery, and more sustainable farming. [00:01:03] Plus, Adam shares insights into trialing the married vine system, a potential game changer for soil health, pest management, and flavor expression. [00:01:12] When Lizbeth didn't get into nursing school on her first try, she could have given up. Instead, she partnered with her mentor Alex, to make a new plan, attend classes part-time, build up her resume and get hands-on hospital work experience. Now Lizbeth has been accepted into Cuesta College's nursing program and her dream of becoming a nurse is back on track. [00:01:36] Lizbeth is a Vineyard Team, Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholar. You can help more students like her who are the children of Vineyard and winery workers reach their dreams of earning a degree by donating to the Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship. Just go to vineyardteam.org/donate. [00:01:53] Now let's listen in. [00:01:58] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today is Adam Huss. He is the host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and also co-owner of Centralis Winery in Los Angeles, California. And today we're gonna talk about hybrid grape varieties. Welcome to the podcast, Adam. [00:02:11] Adam Huss: Thanks, Craig. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. [00:02:17] Craig Macmillan: So let's just start with the basics. What are hybrid grape varieties? [00:02:22] Adam Huss: I should also say I'm a fan of your podcast as well, so it's really fun to be here. [00:02:26] Craig Macmillan: Thank you. Thank you. [00:02:28] Adam Huss: Been listening for a while. So hybrids, I mean, it's really simple. It's funny, I see stuff on Instagram sometimes where people just are so misinformed and they think that, you know, hybrid means like GMO or something like that. [00:02:41] A hybrid simply is just, you take pollen from grape X, you put it on flowers from grape y, and if those two grapes are from different species, you have a hybrid. If they're from the same species, you just have a cross, and this is something that has been part of traditional breeding since forever. It's also what happens naturally in the wild. [00:03:00] Or I hate, I actually just use two words I try not to use at all, which is like natural and wild, but in forests and streams forests and backyards without human intervention, these pollen get exchanged by wind and everything else and have led to, you know, some of the more. Old popular varieties of grapes that are, considered hybrids that we know of now, like Norton and Isabella and Kaaba. [00:03:23] Nobody actually crossed them. They just happened. So yeah, that's, that's a hybrid. It's very simple. [00:03:29] Craig Macmillan: That's what they are, what aren't they and what are some of the myths surrounding them? [00:03:33] Adam Huss: yeah, great question. You can't generalize about hybrids. Generally speaking. So that's really important thing for people to wrap their heads around, which is because. You know, we'll get into this, but so much, so many hybrids are, and just hybrids in general, are wrapped up in prejudice because we live in this sort of viniferous centric wine world. [00:03:56] You know, , those of us who are in wine, but there, you just can't generalize. The qualities of hybrids are just like humans. Like it depends on what your parents are. You know, you, you get different things every time you mix 'em up and you're not like your brother or sister. If you have a sibling, you know you're gonna be different from them even though you have the same parents. [00:04:13] So that's the same thing happens with grapes. There's genetic diversity and mutation happens and. For hybrids, , the possibilities, the potentials are literally infinite. It's pretty incredible to know that possibility exists. There are over 70 species of grapes on earth besides vitus vara, and if you cross any of those two varieties, yeah, you'll get a genetic cross that's 50 50 of, of two different species. [00:04:40] But that. Within that you could do that cross again and get a different variety of grape, even with the same cross. So it's just amazing. [00:04:51] The modern hybrids that are now out there are. Often multi-species crosses and have been crossed. Generationally again and again and back crossed and recrossed. And so, you know, I was just looking at a hybrid grape that had five species of grapes in its family tree. I mean, there are family trees that would make the royals blush, honestly, in some of these hybrids. [00:05:11] So it's not, it's not something that is just, can be just said. You can say one thing about it or that. And, and the idea of hybridizing doesn't imply anything at all, really, like it is just this process that happens that we've been doing for a long time. This might be a good thing to dispel some of the prejudices. [00:05:34] You know, something like the word foxy often gets thrown around when we start talking about hybrids. I did a whole podcast about this what's really interesting, I just brought this word up to a, a young couple here in LA who are growing grapes and they, they had no idea what I was talking about. [00:05:49] So that's kind of encouraging. Like in, in the younger generations, these prejudices and some of these words that we inherited from the last century , are dying out truly. Which is great, but it still persists and you still hear it a lot and. If anybody goes online and researches some of these grapes, so much of the information available online is actually still misinformation and prejudiced because it comes from this vinifirous centric culture. [00:06:15] And so it's really important for people to understand that like foxy is not what it sounds like. It sounds like it would be this animalistic, musky, maybe scent gland tinged aroma, flavor thing, but. If you taste the grapes that are known as foxy and you go, you know, start researching this by tasting, you'll find that it's actually kind of delicious. [00:06:37] It's usually fruity and you know, candy like strawberry raspberry flavors. And for those of us in the US. It's often something we associate with Grapiness because of Welchs. And the flavors of Welchs, which come from the Concord grape, which is a Foxy grape, are these grapey flavors that we grew up with. [00:06:57] This sense of like grape candy and stuff like that. And that's a lot of times what you find in these, but again, it depends a lot on. The level of the compounds that are in that specific hybrid. Again, you can't, you can't generalize. And just like with anything, if you mix different compounds together, you'll get these nuances and you might have some of that flavor or aroma, but it'll be blended with other things. [00:07:17] And so it takes on new characteristics. So it's way more complex than just thinking like a. All grapes that are hybridized are foxy. That's absolutely not true. Or that foxy is this monolithic thing or that foxy is bad. None of those are true. And then really the other thing to realize is in. Grapes in the native North American varieties of species of grapes. [00:07:41] There's really only one that has been used traditionally in grape breeding and hybridization that has these flavors. And that's Vitus labrusca. It just happened to be used quite a bit because it's endemic to the East coast where a lot of the Europeans who started all this breeding were living and, and it was, you know, very readily apparent in the forest of the East coast. [00:07:59] So that. Got used a lot and it's also got a lot of great qualities of fungal resistance and stuff like that. Muscadine is the other grape that has it, but it's got a different genetic structure so it doesn't get crossed a lot or hybridized a lot. [00:08:11] Craig Macmillan: So like, what are the advantages of hybrids where you take vinifira and you cross it with a Native American indigenous grape? What are the benefits? [00:08:21] Adam Huss: Yeah. Another great question. Just , the historical perspective on this is really important. I think. So, you know, Europeans came here a couple hundred years ago, and eventually they brought some of their favorite plants over, one of which were their grapes. And what they noticed right away is that their grapes, I. [00:08:38] Suffered and died without exception, just across the board. Anything they brought over grape wise just kept dying, kept dying. You know, many people tried for a century at least, you know, including people like Thomas Jefferson, people with enormous amounts of resources, and they just failed. They failed to grow these grapes. [00:08:56] Meanwhile, you know, these things like. Norton, this, these hybridized grapes started developing and people noticed like, oh, this grape, it's crossing with some of , the local varieties and it's doing really well. So they began to realize, like they didn't know then that part of, one of the benefits that you get is phylloxera resistance, for example. [00:09:16] But that was a big one and came to save, you know, Europe's wine industry at the end of the 19th century. But also you have these grapes that . Evolved with the fungal pathogens of this, of these climates of North America and other places around the planet. So they've developed resistance and tolerance for all these things. [00:09:38] And so when you cross them with vinifira, you get some of the desirable characteristics that you might like from Vera, and hopefully you'll get some of that, you know, hardiness and fungal resistance and some of the other, just. General benefits of having hybridized interesting new flavors and characteristics [00:09:56] Craig Macmillan: have you seen some examples of this in your, in your travels? [00:10:01] Adam Huss: the fungal resistance and things like [00:10:03] Craig Macmillan: resistance or Pierces disease resistance or anything like that. [00:10:07] Adam Huss: Oh yeah. I mean, I. Whew, so many. I mean, the fact that people can grow grapes organically in Vermont for example, relies almost entirely on hybrids. You know, first of all, they have extremely cold winters there. They have extremely wet, hot, humid summers there. And if you try to grow vinifera there the only way to do it is with chemicals and, and a lot of heartache and, and high risk agriculture. [00:10:35] But here we have somebody like Matt Niess, who's working entirely with hybrids, with his winery, north American Press, and basically he's not using any sprays in any of his vineyards in here in California because these. These grapes have genetics that developed for resistance to the fungal pathogens of the East Coast. [00:10:55] And so you bring them to this nice dry, you know, Mediterranean climate, they're just like, they're crazy. They're like you know, they're, you can basically spray free now. I mean, some people have a problem with zero sprays because they don't want things to develop, but he has a 70-year-old baco noir vineyard, for example, that's in like a wet region in Sonoma that. [00:11:18] He has never sprayed and it's pumping out grapes and looking beautiful every year. And the really interesting thing about it's, there are some inter plantations of vinfiera in that like somebody. Planted something. Maybe it was Pinot Noir in with the Baco. It's like one every, you know, like there's only a few, a handful of these scattered throughout the acre of the Baco noir, and you can tell which ones those are every year because they're just decimated by mildew by the end of the year, whereas the Baco is just spotless and beautiful. [00:11:46] So that's a really like obvious, [00:11:49] Craig Macmillan: What are the wines like? The bako noir? I've never had a bako noir. [00:11:53] Adam Huss: Oh, his wines. Well, so Baco is nice. It's, I mean, it's higher acid. It's almost like a high acid. Gosh, I don't know what, it's hard. I, I, I hate to go down the rabbit hole of like trying to compare it to a vinifira, but it is unique. But it's a deep red almost interior, like with deep purple, higher acid flavors, but pretty balanced, really luscious. Dark fruited flavors maybe a little. Like Syrah, like meatiness, there may be a touch. You might find that it depends on the year. He's had a couple different vintages, so it's been really interesting to see. I'm, I'm kinda like loving following that year by year, seeing the vintage variation and what. [00:12:35] Different things come out because nobody's really doing this. Nobody's, nobody's experimenting with these. So we don't really know how they'll do in, in California other than what he's doing. And just a couple other growers. But he also this year introduced awba for the first time back into California. [00:12:50] The last catawba Vines were ripped out of California in like the sixties, and he, planted some and finally was able to harvest a crop this year and released what was once. California, I mean, the America's most popular wine from the Ohio River Valley is sparkling catawba, and it's like pink and just delicious, beautiful, beautiful stuff. [00:13:10] If I can step back, I think a lot of the discussion of hybrids, again, comes from this perspective of vinifira culture and how do we. Help vinifera become better. How do we use these hybrids as a tool to help, you know, this sort of vinifira centric culture? But I, I would, I'd like to reframe it. [00:13:31] I think a better way to look at this is hybridization is kind of just what we always do with agriculture. It's how you evolve and adapt your agriculture. Ecologically in the absence of modern chemistry that we have. So like before World War ii, and part of, and this is part of the history, France's history too, is like, you know, we had RA decimating their, their vineyards as well as. , we didn't just bring phylloxera back from North America, we brought BlackRock, Downey mildew, powdery mildew. So , their vines were just like dying. Like they were just dying. And so there was this urgent need and a lot of the hybridization, a lot of, some of our, you know, hybrids like Save El Blanc and things like that. [00:14:15] Came from French breeders who were just trying to save the French wine industry. Like they just wanted to have wine, let alone vinifira. You know, it was that. It was pretty bad at the end of that set, you know? And so they developed these new things and then we, you know, things like Isabella and catawba and things like that were coming over from North America, some of our hybrids that came from here, and pretty soon they had these really productive, really hardy vines with new, interesting flavors that. [00:14:41] People kinda liked 'cause they are like fruity and delicious and interesting and new and, and if you're a farmer and you have less inputs and you get a more productive, like higher yields on your vine, like, it's just kind of a no-brainer. And so people were just planting these things. They really were taking off. [00:14:59] And in 1934, the French were like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like our, our, first of all, our. Ancient vinifera cultures are going to be completely diluted, but second of all, we're gonna devalue the market 'cause we're gonna have all this like, it's too abundant, you know? So they made, in 1934, they made hybrids illegal in the French Appalachians. [00:15:17] And so that legacy is something that still sticks with us. Of course then World War II happened and we. Didn't really pay much attention to wine at all 'cause we were just trying to survive. But once World War II was over and the the war machine transferred into the pesticide and industrial agricultural machine, the French realized they could keep Vera alive on root stocks of American hybrids or American native varieties by spraying them with these new novel chemistry chemicals. [00:15:49] And so then they started enforcing the ban on hybrids because they could, and they knew they could have the, this alternative. And so that's when you saw like they had their own sort of version of reefer madness where you, you saw a lot of misinformation and hyperbole and outright propaganda and lies about these, these grapes because they were trying to get them out of French vineyards. [00:16:10] It's important to realize that Ban the EU just lifted the ban on hybrids in Appalachian wine in 2021. So it's kind of not surprising that some of these prejudices and misinformation still persist today. We're not too far away from that. I. [00:16:26] Craig Macmillan: And, and why was the band lifted? Do you know? [00:16:30] Adam Huss: That's a great question. It's, it was lifted for ecological reasons because they're realizing these are really important to dealing with climate change. This is like, if you want a sustainable industry, you need to be able to adapt. When you're inside this, this world of vinifira, what I call the vinifira culture, which is, you know, very centered on Vera. [00:16:50] You don't realize how strange it is. You know, it's kind of like growing up with a, a weird family, you know? It's all you know, so you don't know how strange they are until you start seeing the rest of the world. But to think that, you know, 50 years ago we just decided that maybe like. 10 grapes were the pinnacle of viticultural achievement for all time, and we've basically invested all of our energies into, you know, propagating those around the planet and preserving them at all costs is kind of strange when you think about the whole history of agriculture. [00:17:20] And it's really only possible because of cheep fossil fuels and the novel chemistry that we. Have put into our systems. And so if you take those out, if you start thinking ecologically about how do you develop a wine system, I mean the question is like, does it make sense when farming in a world where the only constant is change and we just live in a dynamic world, does it make sense to try to do everything you can to prevent change? [00:17:45] Like is prevention of change like a good strategy? And so I think, you know, diversity and adaptation are. What have always worked, you know, historically through agriculture, and that's kind of the future. I mean, in a real sense, vinifera culture is the past and hybrids are the future. If we want to have a future, there's my enthusiastic, [00:18:09] Craig Macmillan: Well, I'd like you to expand a little bit more on that. 'cause we we have a group of hybrids that are well known or are commonly used. I've, I've been hearing about Marquette a lot more, um, As having a lot of potential WW. What does that future potentially look like and what are some things that would have to happen for that potential to be realized? [00:18:31] Adam Huss: So we have invested, you know, millions of dollars in time and energy and even policy into developing, , the chemicals that we now use to support our, viticulture. And to make it possible in places like Virginia, where, you know, they're developing a whole wine industry there around vinifira in a climate that is, you know, like I said, that was the climate that like Thomas Jefferson failed for and everyone else for hundreds of years failed to grow it there. [00:18:59] If we invested that same amount of time and energy and money into breeding programs and into. Research for the kinds of things that we're now discovering, like DNA markers so that we can have DNA marker assisted breeding. So you're, you're speeding up the breeding process by sometimes two, three years. [00:19:19] Which is, which is significant in a process that can take, you know, 10 to 20 years that any, any little bit helps. So that kinda stuff and just more of it, more private breeders, making it more valuable for private breeders. I always think it's really interesting that like billionaires would rather just do another sort of like cult. [00:19:39] Ego, Napa cab investment, you know, rather than like breed their own personal variety of grape that nobody else could have. I mean, I'm not recommending that, but like, to me that seems really interesting as an idea. You could just have your own proprietary grape variety if you wanted to, you know, but nobody's thinking that way. [00:19:58] But I would say breeding, putting our, our time and energy into breeding not new varieties is, . Really important and, and working with the ones that are already there, I mean. The only reason California's so such strangers to them is because it's so easy to grow here. You know, we're relatively speaking and I get that. [00:20:15] I mean, you know, people like what they like and, and change is hard and market conditions are what they are. But I think we're at a point where. Marking conditions are changed. Like I said, you know, this young couple I was just talking to don't, don't have never even heard the word foxy. And so I think there's a lot more openness to just what's in the glass. Now. [00:20:35] Craig Macmillan: So some. Of it's messaging. If we can have wines that people can taste and do it in a context that's new to them. So there may be an opportunity here with newer wine drinkers or younger wine drinkers potentially, is what it sounds like to me. [00:20:48] Adam Huss: Yeah, and I. I mean, some of this is also realizing all the different ways that hybrids are already being used and could be used. Like, you know, we know you mentioned Pierce's disease. Pierce's disease is this disease that's endemic to California and is heading north. I mean, it's really on the threshold of all of the major wine regions of, of California. [00:21:11] And the only ways . To stop it without hybrids, without resistant hybrids are, are pretty intense. You know, it's like eliminating habitat through, , basically creating a sterile medium of your vineyard and then spraying with insecticides, you know some, sometimes pretty intense insecticides. [00:21:29] The alternative though is there are now multiple varieties of grapes that are. Resistant to them that are tolerant to it so they, they can carry the bacteria, but it won't affect the health of the vine. Those were bred, some of them here, right here in California at uc Davis. And yet if you go to the University of California Agricultural Network Resources page that, you know, kind of handles all the IPM for California, sort of like the resource. [00:21:56] And if you read about Pierce's disease, it makes zero mention of using tolerant. Varieties as a management strategy. And it makes no mention that there are even are tolerant varieties to Pierce's disease as a management strategy. So just that kind of stuff is the shift that has to happen. 'cause it just shows how vinifera centric our entire industry is, like from the top down, even when there are these great strategies that you can use and start implementing to combat these things, ecologically versus chemically. [00:22:25] They're not there, you know, they're not being mentioned. So just little things like that would go a long way. Also, you know, I mean, one of my fun little facts is like. There are already hybrids being used significantly, like probably everybody on who's listening to this has, if you've bought a bottle of wine at a grocery store that was under 20 bucks, you've probably drunk hybrids because 10,000 acres of ruby red is grown in California to make mega purple and mega purples. Pretty much in every, like, you know, mass produced under $20 bottle of wine and it's got esra, Vitus, esra in it. So you've probably been drinking hybrids and not even known about it. [00:23:04] In terms of these Andy Walker hybrids, I do have a little that which were bred for Pierce's disease resistance. I also have kind of a fun story in that I, as you know, like we've, we've both talked to Adam Tolmach, who replanted a whole block that he lost to Pierce's disease with these hybrid varieties, and these are designed specifically to retain a lot of vinifira characteristics. They're like 97% back crossed to be. vinifira and 3% with Vitus, Arizona to have that Pierce's disease resistant specifically. So they don't have a lot of the other benefits that like a higher percentage of North American native varieties would have. Like they, they're still susceptible to powdery mildew and other mildew pretty, pretty intensely, [00:23:44] but just in terms of flavor for anybody who's out there. So I've, I've barrel tasted with Adam. Tasted each of those varieties individually out a barrel. And then we went to his tasting room and tried all of his wines and, and got to, and then he, instead of keeping, he has two red hybrid varieties, two white hybrid varieties, and he blends them and makes a, you know, a, a red blend and a white blend that he calls a state red and state white. [00:24:09] And we went to his tasting room and he makes beautiful wine. All of his wines are great, but no joke. Everybody in my party. Preferred the hybrids to like all of his pinots or raw chardonnay, I mean, I have no idea why. I mean, but, and that's just anecdotal, obviously nothing scientific, but the very least I can say the, the flavors are exciting and delicious. [00:24:29] Right. [00:24:30] Craig Macmillan: If you can get them in front of the consumer, [00:24:33] Adam Huss: Yeah. [00:24:33] Craig Macmillan: the key. That's really the key. [00:24:35] Adam Huss: Right, right, [00:24:36] Craig Macmillan: And for, your own wine making. Are you making wine from hybrids for yourself? [00:24:40] Adam Huss: Not yet just 'cause there are, there just aren't any in California very much, you know, I mean, it's like little patches here and little patches there. And the people that have them are using them for themself, you know, for their own growing. They've grown them specifically you know, Camus has planted some of these Andy Walker hybrids along their riparian corridors to prevent Pierce's disease. [00:24:58] Those varieties specifically are being used. I don't know if they're blending those in. With like their cab or whatever. I honestly think they could, but I don't know if they are. They're probably, I dunno what they're doing with them, but I do grow them here in Los Angeles and I'm, but they're, you know, it's like I'm trying out a bunch of different things, partly just to see how they do, because, you know, they haven't been grown here. [00:25:21] They were developed for colder, wetter climates and so, you know what, how will they grow here in Los Angeles? There's a lot of unanswered questions for some of these. [00:25:30] Craig Macmillan: You and I were chatting before the interview and you have a, a new project that you're very. Excited about tell us a little bit about that, because I thought that was pretty cool. [00:25:39] Adam Huss: Yeah. Thanks. So this past summer, my wife and I finalized the acquisition of this farm in upstate New York that I'm going to develop into a. Married Vine Vida Forestry Demonstration and Research Project. And, and married vines, essentially vines growing with living trees. [00:26:02] But the best way to think about it is if you know the three Sisters of Agriculture, the corn, beans and squash idea, where you plant these. This guild of, of a Polyculture guild, and they have these symbiotic stacking benefits and productivity. This is what a married vine polyculture is for perennial agriculture. And so I don't just see it as vine and tree, but also vine and tree, and then a ground cover and or small shrubs or things like that that are also perennials planted in a guild together to create these stacking benefits and productivity. [00:26:35] Multiple productivity layers as well as making it a grable system because the vines will be up in trees and and we're gonna call it the Beyond Organic Wine Forest Farm. [00:26:47] Craig Macmillan: So gimme some more detail on this. So like, what are the other plants that are in the forest and how are the vines, what's the spacing like? How, how many trees per vine or vine per tree? [00:27:01] How is the vine trellis? Um, I just, I'm really curious about this idea because this goes back to very, very ancient times. [00:27:09] Adam Huss: Yes. Yeah, yeah, [00:27:09] Craig Macmillan: Uh, that I've read about. I've never seen evidence of it, but I have been told that going back to like Roman times, they would plant grapevines, interplant with things like olives, [00:27:18] Adam Huss: yeah, yeah. Yeah. And [00:27:20] Craig Macmillan: use the olive as a trails. [00:27:22] I mean, is this the, is this the same kind of concept? [00:27:24] Adam Huss: You can see some of this still in Italy. So even pre roam the Etruscan times is what the oldest versions of this that are still visible in Campania, just north of Napoli, I think is the largest married vine system that is still in production. And I think it's about, it might be about 34 hectares of this variety where they have elm trees. That are really tall, full sized elm trees. [00:27:51] And then between them they sort of have wires or ropes between the trees and the vines grow up like up 15 meters. Like it's crazy. Like the guys that harvest this, they have like specially designed ladders that are built for their stance so that they can like lock into these 18 meter ladders and be up there like with a little pulley and a bucket, and they're lowering grapes down from way up in the end. [00:28:14] And you get. So many cool things about that, you know, the, the ripeness and the PHS of the grapes change, the higher you go up in that system. , the thinking is they might have even been used to like. Just inhibit invading armies because , it's like a wall of vines and trees that create like almost a perimeter thing. [00:28:33] That that's also how they're being used in Portugal, they are sort of like if you have a little parcel of land, you use trees and vines to create like a living fence keep your domestic animals inside. And animals that might eat them outside and protect, you know, from theft and things like that. [00:28:51] Keep all your crops in a little clo, like a little controlled area. There are old systems where. They're more like feto systems where they were using maple trees and just pollarding them at, at about head height. And every year, every year or two, they would come in and clip off all the new growth and feed it to the livestock. [00:29:10] And meanwhile, the vines were festooned between the, the maple trees is like, you know, just like a garland of, of grapevine. So there's a lot of different things. And what I wanna do is trial several of them. One of the most. Interesting ones that I just saw in whales uses living willows, where you literally just stick a willow slip in the ground, bend it over to the next one that's about a meter and a half away and attach it. [00:29:35] And so you have these arched willow branches that grow once you stick 'em in the ground. They start growing roots and they create like a head high trellis, like a elevated trellis system, and you plant vines in them. And, and it literally looks just like. Like a row of grapevines that you would find here, except the, the trellis is alive and there's no wires and, and you prune the tree when you prune the vine in the winter, you know? [00:29:58] And Willow, I, I don't know if you know, but the, the other interesting thing about that is like willow has been used historically that the salicylic acid is known. Obviously that's aspirin and stuff like that. That's where we get, you know, one of our oldest like pain relievers and things like that. [00:30:12] But. It's used in biodynamic preps as well as an antifungal. And so there's some thought that like this system could be really beneficial to the vines growing with those. Specifically for that, like for antifungal properties or just creating a, you know, showering the vines with this, this salicylic acid thing that will help them grow and have health throughout the season without, with, again, reduced need for sprays of anything. [00:30:37] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, and that was why I brought it up is because there's the idea of working with the natural ecology of what's in the germ plasm of native plants. I. Mixing with an import plant. [00:30:51] And then there's the other way of looking at it and saying, well, what, what about recreating the conditions under which this plant that has evolved in the first place? And I, I just think that there's really fascinating concept. It's really intriguing to me. [00:31:05] yeah. And there's so many different ways you could do it, and that's why it's interested in what you're planning on doing, because there's obviously a lot of ways you could do it. [00:31:11] Adam Huss: Yeah, I wanna experiment with several. Like you said, the, the soil benefits are incredible potentials. And then when you're also thinking about what do I do besides just vines and trees, and I mean, the other thing is like. How does it make the wine taste? Like if you plant a vine with an apple tree or a, a black locust tree, or a honey locust tree, or a, or a mulberry tree, like, does, is the vine happier with one of those trees? [00:31:35] You know what I mean? Does it, does it, you know, and if it is, does that make the wine taste better at the end of the day? All these are really fun questions for me. That's why I'm really excited to do it. But also like what are the benefits in terms of, you know, the health of the vine, the health of the tree? [00:31:50] Do they are, is there symbiotic elements? It seems like they would, I, I think a lot about what kind of mycorrhizal connections and associations the trees have, because we vines have our Arbuscular connections. And so if you plant them with a tree that has similar connections, they might actually have a symbiotic benefit. [00:32:07] They might increase that soil network even further. And then if you're planting shrubs like blueberries or flowers, you know, perennial flowers or Forbes and things like that, that could either be grazed or could be gathered or could be another crop even for you, or it could be a protective thing. [00:32:22] There are things like indigo that you might plant because. Deer don't like it. So you might want that growing around the base of your vine tree thing while it's young, because it will prevent the deer from grazing down your baby vines and trees, you know? And so there's just a, a myriad ways of thinking about these guilds that you can do. [00:32:39] Obviously these are, I. Yeah, they're, they're different. If I was doing it in California, if I was in California, I would be thinking more about olives and pomegranates and figs and things like that, you know, like there's a lot less water for growing trees here, so depending on where you are, unless you're on the coast. [00:32:55] Craig Macmillan: Are you planning on using hybrids in your project? [00:32:59] Adam Huss: Yeah. I don't know how I would do it any other way. Yeah, it's, definitely a climate that. If you try to grow ra, like you're just asking for trouble. And, and just, you know, because of my approach is so ecological, like I will attempt to be as minimal inputs as possible is the other way I look at it. [00:33:20] You know, try to just imitate what's happening around to, to see what that landscape wants to do and then how it. Maintains its health and resilience and maybe, and, and I mean, my, my ideal is to spray not at all. But you know, with not a dogma about that. If I see an issue or if I think like I'm building up these pathogen loads in the vineyard, maybe I'll spray once a year, even if they seem like they're doing okay. [00:33:47] You know, I'm not like dogmatic about nose spray, but I, it's a, it's a fun ideal to reach for. And I, you know, I think potentially with. Some of the symbiotic benefits of these systems that could be achievable with with the right hybrids. You know, I mean, again, I don't wanna generalize about hybrids because you have the Andy Walker hybrids on the one end, which you have to treat just like vinifira in terms of the spray program. [00:34:10] And then on the other hand, you have something like Petite Pearl or Norton, which is like in many cases is almost like a bulletproof. Grape, you know, and in California specifically, it would be like insanely. And then you have things right down the middle. Things like tranet that you know, is basically like, I could blind taste you on Tranet and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between it and gewurztraminer . [00:34:31] But it's more cold, hearty, it has a little more disease resistance. Gives you a just a little bit, a little bit more of a benefit while still getting flavors that are familiar to you. If you like those flavors. [00:34:43] Craig Macmillan: Is there one thing that you would tell growers on this topic? One takeaway. [00:34:48] Adam Huss: Great question. I think give hybrids the same allowance that you give Vinifera. I. We all know there's a huge diversity of Vin Nira from Petite Ough to Riesling. And not everyone is right for every wine drinker and not all of them per perform the same in the vineyard. And, and you know, and we tolerate a lot of. [00:35:12] Frailty and a lot of feebleness in our veneer vines. We, we do a lot of care. We do a lot of like, you know, handholding for our veneer vines when necessary. If we extended the same courtesy to hybrids in terms of understanding and willingness to work with them. I think like that would just go a really long way too. [00:35:33] And I think we'd be surprised to find , they're a lot less handholding than, than Venire generally speaking. I. But also just try some. I think a lot of the prejudice comes from just not being exposed to them right now. You know, if you, if you think, if you're thinking negative thoughts about hybrids, get out there and drink some, you probably just haven't had enough yet. [00:35:51] And if you don't like the first one, you know, how many bad Cabernets have you had? I mean, if, if I had stopped drinking vinifira, I [00:35:59] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's, that's a really good point. If I judged every wine by the first wine that I tasted, that's probably not a very, [00:36:06] Adam Huss: right. [00:36:07] Craig Macmillan: good education there, [00:36:08] Adam Huss: Prevented me from exploring further, I would've missed out on some of the more profound taste experiences of my life if I'd let that, you know, guide my, you know, my thinking about it. So yeah, I think it's like anything with prejudice, once you get beyond it, it kind of, you see how silly it is, man. [00:36:25] It's, it's like so freeing and, and there's a whole world to explore out there. And like I said, I really think they're the future. Like if we wanna have a future, . We can only cling to the past for so long until it just becomes untenable. [00:36:38] Craig Macmillan: Right. Where can people find out more about you? [00:36:42] Adam Huss: So beyondorganicwine.com is the, the website for me. The email associate with that is connect@organicwinepodcast.com. [00:36:53] Craig Macmillan: Our guest today has been Adam Huss. He is the host of the Beyond Organic Podcast and is the co-owner of Centralas Wines in Los Angeles. [00:37:01] Thank you so much. This has been a really fascinating conversation and I'd love to connect with you at some point, talk more about. Out this, thanks for being on the podcast [00:37:08] Adam Huss: Thank you so much, Craig. Appreciate it. [00:37:13] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. Today's podcast was brought to you by VineQuest. A Viticultural consulting firm based in Paso Robles, California, offering expert services in sustainable farming, vineyard development, and pest management. With over 30 years of experience, they provide tailored solutions to enhance vineyard productivity and sustainability for wineries and agribusinesses across California. [00:37:38] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Adam. His wine, brand, Centralis plus sustainable wine growing podcast episodes on this topic, 135 Cold hardiness of grapes 217. Combating climate chaos with adaptive wine, grape varieties, and 227. Andy Walker's Pierce's Disease resistant grapes are a success at Ojai Vineyard. [00:38:04] If you liked the show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts at vineyardteam.org/podcast and you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org. [00:38:19] Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with Vineyard Team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

This week, Jessica sits down with David Salazar — the son of immigrant farmworkers and the winemaker, owner, and visionary behind Reclamación Wines. From his upbringing in agricultural roots to earning a degree in Viticulture and Enology from Fresno State, David's journey has taken him across wine regions from Paso Robles to Napa Valley and as far as New Zealand. In this episode, David opens up about why he launched Reclamación Wines — a bold, intentional brand that challenges the narrative that Latinos are only seen as labor in the wine industry. His mission is clear: to elevate Hispanic voices and showcase the leadership, innovation, and brilliance Latinos bring to winemaking. Jessica and David dive into cultural reclamation, the storytelling behind the wine, and, of course, Jessica shares her first sips and real-time reactions to his beautiful wine. In This Episode: The story and meaning behind Reclamación Wines David's journey from immigrant roots to global wine regions His mission to shift narratives in the wine industry The role of culture, identity, and family in his work Jessica's tasting notes and reactions to the 2021 vintage About David Salazar: David is the son of immigrant farmworkers and a proud graduate of Fresno State's Viticulture and Enology program. His experience spans top wine regions from California to New Zealand. David's passion lies in reclaiming space and respect for Latinos in the wine world — not just as laborers, but as leaders, innovators, and great winemakers. Connect with David Salazar:

Send us a textWe taste and review Trader Joe's Super Happy Sauvignon Blanc 2023, a $9.99 exclusive made by acclaimed Paso Robles winemaker Field Recordings from Happy Canyon of Santa Barbara grapes.• Field Recordings proprietor Andrew Jones specializes in finding forgotten vineyards and transforming them into unique wines• Happy Canyon is the easternmost and warmest AVA in Santa Barbara, with maritime influences from three sides• Unlike New Zealand styles, this Sauvignon Blanc has a Bordeaux-inspired profile with tropical fruit notes• The wine features a surprising hint of jalapeño-like spice along with apple, pear, and guava flavors• Fermented in stainless steel and aged for seven months to balance its natural acidity• Delivers complexity with "first and second acts" of flavor development - unusual at the $10 price point• Available exclusively at Trader Joe's for $9.99Visit CheapWineFinder.com for more detailed wine reviews, and keep watching for upcoming summer wine recommendations.Check us out at www.cheapwinefinder.comor email us at podcast@cheapwinefinder.com

The Jim Rome Show HR 2 - 6/2/25 LA Chargers LB Daiyan Henley joins the show after an outstanding sophomore season, Alvin makes his PrizePicks and Silk Brah joins from wine country in Paso Robles. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greg and Sorcerer Chromatic drink and review beers from Greenwood Brewing (Phoenix, AZ) and Firestone Walker (Paso Robles, CA). After a couple of quick Beer News story, Sorcerer Chromatic rundown the first half of the list on Beer Vendors at this year's Firestone Walker Invitational Beer Fest on May 31st, 2025 in Paso Robles, CA. Recorded May 19, 2025

Greg (going solo) drinks and reviews the most popular beer from Evil Twin (New York, NY). He then finishes the list Sorcerer Chromatic started from the last episode of the beer vendors who will be at this year's Firestone Walker Invitational Beer Fest on May 31, 2025 in Paso Robles, CA.

It's Monday, Let's raise a glass to the beginning of another week. It's time to unscrew, uncork or saber a bottle and let's begin Exploring the Wine Glass!  Happy Memorial Day. Originally known as Decoration Day is a federal holiday here in the United States dedicated to honoring and mourning the U.S. military personnel who died while serving in the United States Armed Forces. If you are in Paso Robles today, please come by the Dracaena Wines' tasting room. Active and veteran military will receive two complimentary tastings with a single bottle purchase PLUS 20% off all wine purchases. Today's episode is a re-release of my interview with an amazing non-profit called Honor Flight Central Coast, who raise money so they can honor all of America's veterans by taking them to Washington D.C. on their “Tour of Honor.” It's a wonderful cause, please check them out.  While you are listening, it would be so incredible if you could take one minute to subscribe, rate and review. It takes only a few seconds of your time but means so much to the show. The next best way to support Exploring the Wine Glass is to tell your friends. If you enjoy the podcast, your wine loving friends will too. Finally, don't forget to head to the website, Exploring the Wine Glass.com to read the blog, and sign up for the newsletter so you can keep up with all the happenings.  Slainte!  Find out more about Honor Flight Central Coast Music: WINE by Kēvens Official Video Follow me on Instagram!   Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel SIGN UP FOR EXPLORING THE WINE GLASS NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIBE ON iTUNES STITCHER | iTUNES | GOOGLE PLAY | SPOTIFY | PODBEAN | AUDIBLE | BOOMPLAY Even ask your smart speaker to play Exploring the Wine Glass GIVE US A RATING AND REVIEW Thoughts or comments? Contact Lori at exploringthewineglass@gmail.com. Please support our sponsor Dracaena Wines - Our Wines + Your Moments + Great Memories Use code 'Explore' at checkout to receive 10% off your first order GET SPECIAL OFFERS FOR DRACAENA WINES

On Playing with Food, Fr. Ian Delinger spotlights Harvestly, a local delivery service that fills the gap between farm boxes, supermarkets, and restaurants by delivering local produce to your doorstep. Then, KCBX's Carol Tangeman speaks with LeBren Harris, CEO of the nonprofit Downtown SLO, about its challenges and successes in making the city's downtown economically and culturally vibrant. Then, Katelyn Schiavone, operations director and concessions coordinator at the Live Oak Music Festival, and Marisa Waddell, the festival's artistic director, talk about the logistics of organising an event of such a scale, and what makes it special for them.

Jeff and Jeremy dive into the buzz around the Red Clay Strays, the 2024 Americana Emerging Artists of the Year, headlining the California Mid-State Fair. Hailing from Mobile, Alabama, this band has rocked The Tonight Show, Jimmy Kimmel Live, and sold out Red Rocks. But do locals know them? We break down their 19-song setlist, ticket prices ($65-$150), and cost-per-song value (from $3.42 to $7.89). Will San Luis Obispo house moms in wide-brim hats flock to Paso Robles for this hipster spectacle? Plus, we check the KZFC.com poll where 80% have no clue who the Strays are. Tune in for laughs, concert economics, and a shoutout to Despicable Mike's sugar mama dreams! #RedClayStrays #MidStateFair #AmericanaMusic #ConcertVibes #WideBrimHats

Dustin is a musician who became an award-winning marketer more than 20 years ago after receiving his first guitar, a truly life-defining moment that set him down a path of creative exploration. He is passionate about filmmaking, photography, design, illustration and all things creative, as well as marketing strategy, data and analytics. He specializes in telling engaging stories and connecting brands and artists with global audiences through proven strategic marketing efforts. He splits his time between Los Angeles and Paso Robles, California and is honored to work alongside some of the best and brightest creatives to produce work for the world's most respected brands.

May is Asian American and Pacific Islander or AAPI Heritage Month. In celebration of this, Issues and Ideas invited MT Vallarta, pronouns they, them, theirs, a poet and Assistant Professor of Ethnic Studies at CalPoly, to be in conversation with William Nuʻutupu Giles, pronouns he/they, who is a poet, Samoan writer, and arts educator. Giles was in San Luis Obispo on May 7th, 8th, and 9th to do poetry readings and workshops at Cal Poly and in the city. Vallarta and Giles speak about their writing process and the importance of having a community. Then, for her segment Wine Country, wine journalist and editor Mira Honeycutt talks to Paso Robles winemakers Molly Lonborg, senior winemaker at Booker Wines, and Nancy Ulloa, winemaker and owner of Uyua Cellars, about the challenges they faced starting out in a male-dominated industry, their mentorship initiatives, and the importance of asking for help. And, we conclude our episode with Working Lunch, hosted by Jim Dantona, CEO for the San Luis Obispo Chamber of Commerce. He speaks with Bill Borgsmiller, CEO of ACI Jet, about the latter's journey in establishing his company at just 22 years old and why he decided to base his aviation business in San Luis Obispo.

Paso Robles, celebrating 100 years, Zinfandel, a teenage winemaker and interview w Janell Dusi, owner & winemaker of J Dusi Wines in Paso Robles. ON THE ROAD with mrCAwine is about California's cool, aspirational lifestyle and its awesome wines hosted by Chuck Cramer, a California native, living in London and is the Director of European & Asian sales & marketing, Terlato Wines. This is a wine journey covering the hottest topics in the business of California wine, chatting along the way with the people who work in wine, and make it all happen. This week's episode includes an interview with Janell Dusi of J Dusi Wines.

Join us this week as we delve into 'The Watcher,' Season 7, Episode 7 of The Dead Files that originally aired on February 4th, 2017. Amy and Megan discuss Ghostly Forces at the Pine Street Saloon in Paso Robles, California. We also go over the eerie paranormal activity captured on video, including some ghostly grab ass.We then explore the haunted history and tragic stories surrounding the location, including botched abortions and vengeful spirits. Additionally, there's a heartfelt tribute to our friend Raymond Newsom from Spirit Mechanix. Tune in for a spooky yet engaging discussion! Chapter Markers00:00 Intro00:19 Welcome02:31 Raymond Send Off 05:37 Overview08:06 The Set-Up28:40 Diggin Tru55:10 The Reveal So, grab your ghostly hinder, and join us where… The Activity Continues. Content Warning:  In this episode we mention a botched abortion and child death in history so trigger warning for those who need it. Also, we swear. The Activity Continues is a paranormal podcast where soul friends, Amy, Megan, and AP chat about true crime, ghost stories, dreams, and other paranormal stuff including the TV show, The Dead Files. Our recaps are full of recurring jokes about recurring tropes. We also occasionally do interviews with people from the paranormal world, with the goal of learning from others. We think you'll really benefit from the things these people have to say. Sometimes we get a little scientific. We enjoy trying to come up with possible explanations for some of the things that the clients experience. But this by no means indicates that we do not believe the clients or are invalidating their experiences. We do believe. This episode was recorded on April 14, 2025 and released on May 8, 2025. Episode links:Raymond Newsom: https://www.evansfuneralhomeky.com/obituaries/raymond-newsome/#!/TributeWallThe First 48 Murder confession: S13 E36:https://www.reddit.com/r/First48/comments/lmk3sh/episode_where_woman_casually_admits_to_killing_a/First 48 “Dangerous Attraction”: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3979592/Sources:The Property: https://www.pinestreetsaloon.com/James Blackburn: https://www.pasorobleshistorymuseum.org/about-4Daniel Blackburn: https://www.pasorobleshistorymuseum.org/general-8 Episodes we referenced:Episode 117 Ocean Full of Oysters https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/ocean-full-of-oysters/ Episode 122 The Client Files: Diane https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/Diane-DeadFiles-Client/ Episode 77: An Interview with a Shaman https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/interview-with-a-shaman/The Dead Files Official Podcast: https://pod.link/1642377102https://shows.acast.com/the-dead-files/episodes  Disclaimer:This podcast is in no way affiliated with Warner Brothers, HBOMax, the Travel Channel, Painless TV, or the TV show The Dead Files or any of its cast or crew. We're just fans who love the show and want to build a community of like-minded people who would enjoy hanging out and discussing the episodes and similar content. Credits:Hosted by: Amy Lotsberg, Megan Simmons, and Amy PiersakProduction, Artwork, and Editing: Amy Lotsberg at Collected Sounds Media, LLC. https://www.collectedsounds.com/ Theme song. “Ghost Story” and segment music by Cannelle https://melissaoliveri.comBackground music: “Beyond the Stars” by Chris Collins Engage!Our website, https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/ Leave us a Voicemail: https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/voicemail/ (might be read on the show)Newsletter sign-up:  https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/newsletter          Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/theactivitycontinues We're on (almost) all the socials too @theactivitycontinues SEND US YOUR PARANORMAL STORIES!Email: theactivitycontinues@gmail.com and maybe it will be read on the show!Voicemail: https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/voicemail/ to leave a message and maybe it will be played on the show! BE OUR GUEST!Are you a The Dead Files client, or a paranormal/spiritual professional, and are interested in being interviewed on our show? Let us know by filling out our guest form:https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/guests/intake/ Affiliates/SponsorsPlease see our Store page for all the links for all our current affiliates. https://www.theactivitycontinues.com/store/  Thank you for listening, take care of yourselves. We'll see you soon!If you want to hear us early and ad-free EVERY week, become a Patron, join our Ghosty Fam and get bonus exclusive episodes! https://www.patreon.com/theactivitycontinuesSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/tac/exclusive-content

In this episode of the Vint Wine Podcast, we sit down with acclaimed wine writer and researcher Elaine Chukan Brown to discuss their new book, The Wines of California—a sweeping and deeply informed look at the Golden State's wine landscape, past and present.With rare access, firsthand research, and a unique perspective shaped by years of work across regions and with producers, Elaine shares a compelling narrative tracing the evolution of California wine: from indigenous cultivation and early Spanish mission plantings to Prohibition-era struggles, the rise of Napa and Sonoma, and today's cutting-edge, climate-driven viticulture.Elaine shares:

As biological technologies continue to advance, many growers are exploring how best to integrate them into their farming operations. Nevada Smith, Head of Marketing North America, and Robert Blundell, Research Plant Pathologist, both with Pro Farm Group, highlight the role of biological pesticides and biofertilizers in sustainable winegrowing. Biological pesticides, derived from microbial sources or natural products such as plants, fungi, bacteria, or nematodes, play a crucial role in pest management by inhibiting or delaying growth or directly causing pest mortality. Understanding which biological products to use and when to apply them within an integrated pest management system is essential for maximizing their effectiveness. Biofertilizers, which enhance plant health and resilience to abiotic stresses, are another key tool for sustainable viticulture. Nevada and Robert discuss the growing importance of these technologies in improving soil health and supporting long-term agricultural productivity. Resources:         REGISTER: 5/9/25 Biochar Field Day 117: Grapevine Mildew Control with UV Light 123: What is Happening in Biologicals for Pest Management and Plant Health 266: Soft Pesticide Trial: Powdery Mildew, Downy Mildew, Botrytis, and Sour Rot Healthy Soils Playlist Integrated Pest Management (IPM) Principles ProFarm What are Biopesticides? Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: As biological technologies continue to advance, many growers are exploring how to best integrate them into their farming operations. [00:00:13] Welcome to Sustainable Wine, growing with Vineyard Team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic, executive director. [00:00:23] In today's podcast, Craig McMillan, critical resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates. With Longtime SIP certified Vineyard in the first ever SIP certified winery speaks with Nevada Smith Head of Marketing North America and Robert Blundell research plant pathologist, both with Pro Farm Group. Together, they highlight the role of biological pesticides and bio fertilizers in sustainable wine. Growing [00:00:49] biological pesticides are derived from microbial sources or natural products such as plants, fungi, bacteria, or nematodes. They play a crucial role in pest management by inhibiting or delaying growth or directly causing pest mortality [00:01:04] Understanding which biological products to use and when to apply them within an integrated pest management system is essential for maximizing their effectiveness. [00:01:13] Bio fertilizers, which enhance plant health and resilience to abiotic stresses are another key tool for sustainable viticulture, Nevada and Robert discussed the growing importance of these technologies and improving soil health and supporting long-term agricultural productivity. [00:01:30] If you're gonna be in Paso Robles, California on May 9th, 2025. Join us at Niner Wine Estates for a Biochar Field day. This interactive morning features live demonstrations and expert discussions on the benefits of biochar for soil health and sustainable farming. Learn how to integrate biochar into your farming operations through practical insights and hands-on experiences. Go to vineyard team.org/events or look for the link in the show notes to get registered. [00:02:00] Now let's listen in.   [00:02:05] Craig Macmillan: My guest today are Nevada Smith. He is Head of Marketing North America and Robert Blundell, who's a research plant pathologist, both with Pro Farm Group. Thank you for being on the podcast [00:02:15] Rob Blundell: Thank you, Craig. [00:02:16] Nevada Smith: Thank you. [00:02:18] Craig Macmillan: Today we're gonna be talking about bio pesticides and we might as well start with the the basics. What is a biological pesticide? Robert, why don't you start? [00:02:26] Rob Blundell: Yeah, that's a good question, Craig. And and you know, honestly, it's. So when I first was kind of thinking about this, it's not as simple explanation as you might think. It's a constantly kind of evolving term and depending on who you are asking, you can get a, a very different answer. And it's, it's really kind of this large umbrella term. [00:02:42] . It's kind of a microbially based product or natural product typically derived from a plant, fungi, bacteria, nematode, you know. That pretty much has the ability to inhibit or delay the growth or, you know, cause the death of a pest. [00:02:56] And you know, with the term biological pesticide, pesticide being extremely broad whether it's, you know, insect, fungi, even rodent, you know, rodent sides, things like that. So yeah, again, it's a very broad term and different, different grooves, different commodities are gonna kind of have their own explanation. [00:03:09] Even the EU has a different, I think definition versus the EPA as well. So it's an evolving, evolving term. [00:03:15] Craig Macmillan: What about you, Nevada? Do you have anything to add to that? [00:03:17] Nevada Smith: I'm kind of with Robert, it's almost like sustainability. What does that mean? It means to me, I get to keep farming every year. But I think for everyone else it might have different definitions. And I think basically the, the premise is, is it's biologically based. It's based on a living organism, something that we can repeat, regrow, and, you know, the societal part of it, bio pesticide, it means it's acting or killing or helping mitigate pest. For proform have a biologically based strategy. And so we, that's what we deliver is those type of tools. [00:03:50] Craig Macmillan: One of the major pets on grapes is powdery mildew. Around the globe. Probably the major pest overall, I would say fungal disease. I have been seeing a lot of increase in the use of bio pesticides specifically for powdery mildew, some in organic systems, some in more traditional sustainability oriented systems. [00:04:09] What kind of mechanisms are there out there in the biological world for managing powdery mildew and how does that, how do they work? Nevada, do you wanna start? [00:04:18] Nevada Smith: Yeah, so for biological pesticides, there's sort of different categories and I'll even. Even throwing some sort of organic pesticides as well into this whole mix. I think as a grower or a wine processor, you have a choice and it's like, either I'm going conventional, I'm looking to maximize my value proposition on my vineyard or my process my wines. And so one of the ways we really think about this is how do you integrate bio pesticides into the overall spray for bio mildew, like our winemaker at our place they always say, Hey, if it's more than 3% power mildew it's a no go. It's a bad day for us. And so for us to take the risk on our farm. For a biologicial pesticide, we had to have some data to really get us excited about it. [00:05:02] Overall, we wanna see performance. We need to see at least seven to 10 days. And I think that's maybe the biggest challenge a powerdy mildew issue is depending on what sort of climate and what variety of grapes you're growing is how long does it take me to get across the vineyard? [00:05:17] It's really what it comes down to. [00:05:18] And you know, maybe from a pathology point of view, Robert has some perspective. [00:05:24] Rob Blundell: The way we want to kind of think about powdery mildew is it's, you know, it's, it's always gonna be there. It's gonna be present. And biologicals, when used in the right way, can be a fantastic you know, tool in the arsenal. For, for growers or farmers against a deadly pathogen like this. [00:05:38] Growers really need to kind of consider the goal of using a biological, because there's so many different mechanisms of action of a biological, I mean, it can be live, it can be live, it can be the, you know, the spent fermentation product of a biological, which is gonna work very differently versus an actual liable organism you're gonna put in your field. [00:05:53] So kind of having a clear mindset from the, from the start is gonna be crucial to knowing. What kind of biological do you use? And also importantly, kind of when to use it as well. Because you can have drastically different outcomes based on like the time of your, you know, the time of venue production and then, and then the time of the season as well. [00:06:09] But yes yeah, ultimately there's broad, broad mechanism of actions. So if we're putting something on there live you know, you know, with something like powder mildew, this, pathogen functions because it attaches onto leaves. So we have these overwintering structures called cassia. [00:06:24] So these are basically the dormant structures that are gonna help powerdy mildew, survive. That's why it's been around for so long. That's why it's, it comes back every year. So it basically shuts down, it's fungal mycelium into these dormant hard structures. And then every year it basically reawakens around spring when we get the rainfall. [00:06:39] So we're gonna get ASCO spores. These are specialized spore structures within that kind of dormant structure. They get released out. So, you know, with the, with the weather coming in this week, that's gonna be, huge out there right now. So we're gonna get the release of those spores. [00:06:51] They're gonna land on that leaf. So really that's kind of our prime target of having protection is when they're gonna be landing and then adhesing to that leaf. So with something like a biological, if we can get that onto that leaf and then, you know, that's kind of our line of defense really. We want to be setting like a line of defense early in the season. [00:07:08] Know we have a product regalia. So that gets on there. It has these antimicrobial compounds, which the first point of contact is gonna. Prevent you know, it's gonna help mitigate that interaction between the leaf and the pathogen acts as kind of that medium layer. And then it's also gonna boost the plant's natural defense. [00:07:24] So how powdery mildew you kind of functions it. Once it gets on that leaf, it has a very specialized structure. Call it, they would call it a whole story or an appium, depending on where you are in the world and specialized structure that will kind of get through that cell wall, under that cell membrane and then sucks out the nutrients from the leaf so we can get a biological on the early to boost that plant defense, boost those, you know, defense fight hormone pathways. [00:07:46] We're gonna kind of mitigate that as a an initial point of contact. And then hopefully that's gonna set us off for a you know, a good season after that. But the time, yeah, the timing is definitely crucial. [00:07:55] Nevada Smith: I think to add to Robert's point is really to start your season off right and clean. So that's why as growers or as winemakers, you choose to use some sulfur to kind of mitigate, which is not necessarily a bio pesticide, but it could be organic, you know, depending on what your source of there. But those tools to me, are foundational for getting a clean start if you start bad, and it's gonna be a hell of a year all year long. [00:08:20] And I think that's the biggest challenge of bio pesticide uses overall is. Where do they fit, what growers they fit in? And it's not a solution for all, for sure. I mean, if you're growing Chardonnay or Pinot Noir on the Sonoma Coast in a foggy bank off of Bodega Bay, tough times, you know? But if you're in Pastor Robles, maybe in the Napa Valley in the valley where it's a little bit drier, you go in cab. Issue. You probably can integrate a nice bio pesticide program into it, and I think that's the secret. [00:08:58] Craig Macmillan: You mentioned regalia. What is the actual ingredient in regalia? What does it come from? [00:09:03] Rob Blundell: Yeah, so for Regalia the active ingredient comes from giant knotweed, so Ray Nectria. So that's a giant knotweed extract essentially that's been procured and then optimized in r and d and then applied typically as a folia spray for, for grape vines. [00:09:17] Craig Macmillan: And then the plant reacts to that, and that's what increases the plant defense mechanism. [00:09:22] Rob Blundell: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. There's kind of a few, few tiers of how, you know, Regilia kind of functions. So yeah, so we do that kind of initial application pretty much as soon as you, you have any green tissue, you know, really that's a great time to kind of get that on there. And then so the plant is gonna respond to that so typically a plant, defence pathway. [00:09:39] We have salicylic acid, so that is a key phyto hormones. So phyto hormones are kind of the driving force behind the plant defense. And this is very, you know, this is typical for all kind of pathogens, all kind of crops really. So you're gonna have a pathogen interact and we'll have its initial interaction with a plant. [00:09:55] And then you're gonna get this initial, like, response straight away from a plan. It's gonna be, Hey, I, my defenses are up. I, I sense this as a foreign agent. Basically I need to, you know, protect myself. So you get this upregulation of fighter hormones. They're very regulated. Pathways that then have these cascading effects to ultimately kind of therefore have longer term defense. [00:10:14] So you have an upregulation of fighter hormones. This is gonna signal to the plant that, Hey, I need to strengthen my cell walls, for example. So I'm gonna send more liening cell lignin being a crucial component a cell. wall . That's something we see upregulated as a result of regalia. So we get that increase in phyto hormones, we'll get lignin sent to the cell wall. [00:10:32] We get an increase in antioxidants as well to kinda help break down the pathogen as well. Limiteds effects we get polyphenols various other kind of antimicrobials as a result. So we have kind of direct effects, but then crucially with regalia, so we're gonna have the plant initially respond to its application, and then when the pathogen does. [00:10:50] Come around for a, an attack. That plan already kind of is, is heightened its responses, it's ready for it, so it's gonna be a faster kind of response time and therefore what we kind of consider more of a, a longer term defense response. [00:11:02] Craig Macmillan: Are there other modes of action, perhaps ones that are live? [00:11:05] Nevada Smith: Yeah. And that, I think that's a great point. Is there, you know, the, the bacillus category has been a big category the last dozen years or so. And this could be anything waiting from a bacillus subtles to bacillus Emli. There's other bacilli out there too. And I think they're more of an integrated approach. [00:11:22] So I conventional our farm vineyards. We're gonna just rotate it in there. So just like if you're straight organic or you're straight bio pesticide, it'd be a regalia, as an example, rotated with a bacillus product. We happen to have one as well, a very nice one called Sargus. But there's other great solutions out there in the marketplace today. There's other living organisms as well. There's some products in the Streptomyces categories as well. They're used in grow rotation, but I think to me as a grower and as a winemaker myself. I'm just looking for integration, IPM strategy all the way along. And depend on how, what your guard rails are for farming that would dictate what your options are overall. [00:12:07] Craig Macmillan: So, , to you, Robert, , how do these actually work? Like bacillus subtilis and things? [00:12:11] How do they actually either prevent or treat powdery mildew in grape. [00:12:15] Rob Blundell: Yeah, good question. So for Bacillus with Star in particular so we're actually not looking to treat powdery mildew kind of outright with this product itself. That's more where regalia is gonna come as a benefit. So actually Bacillus is great for something like botrytis in grapes. So, and this is really, really where we can kind of combine regalia and stargus together for a very effective program. [00:12:34] Kind of a one-two punch. So we, you have a live bacillus product. So we have spores that are gonna colonize a surface. So whether that's being the soil, you know, microbia the leaves or the berries, and with botrytis infecting berries causing damage, necrotic lesions in those berries, that's where something like stargus , a bacillus product can be applied to those berries to effectively colonize it. [00:12:55] And again, kind of creating like a nice. Kind of shield essentially from pretty much all fungal pathogens work the same. They have to attach, then they have to penetrate to essentially, hold on. So if we can kind of form a physical, kind of physical barrier, that's gonna be great. So for a lot of the Bacillus products they produce a suite of antimicrobials. [00:13:13] So star for our company we have a suite of antimicrobials that produces, so we have things like Itur, Phin, these are all really good antimicrobials. They're gonna have a direct effect on it. So those spores will be able to, you know, colonize the berry, for example, and then help Yeah. Prevent prevent powerdy mildew So you have this live culture essentially that's on the grapes and it's producing compounds, and that's where the, the antimicrobial comes in or the antifungal comes in. [00:13:40] Nevada Smith: Yes. And. [00:13:47] So there's two registrations from an EPA standpoint. There's the live bacteria count, which people are familiar with from back in the day when there was bts, right cells ths for worm protection. And so we measure the CFUs, which is a colony forming unit. So the bacteria, and there's a minimum threshold that we have for our product as well as anybody else that registers their bacteria. Just sort of a quality control thing for the grower to know this is the level we produce. What we. Seeing the production for our solution is really around the chemical compounds being created in the fermentation process, this lipopeptides cycle. And so that's what's important to know that there's some differentiation. [00:14:25] And I always use the example, I'm a huge basketball fan and you know, there's a difference between Michael Jordan and myself. I'm not at his level. And so not all bacilli are created equal, but they all do have some performance values for them. And obviously, you know, the more you can look into science and whether it be uc, extension and the Gubler Eskalen models and local trial researchers will give you the value proposition each of these products brings to you. [00:14:50] Craig Macmillan: Now, this is something that I, I don't think I've heard before and I wanna make sure that I heard it correctly. So, some of the protection is actually coming from things that are being produced during the fermentation production of the bacteria themselves. And so these are side things. And then that makes it into the final product. [00:15:05] Nevada Smith: Yeah, that's actually the most important thing on foliar. So holistically for bacillus, and this is a very broad brush here unless you're in a tropical environment like bananas in. Columbia or Costa Rica, you're not growing more spores on the leaf surface. You might have that happen a little bit depending on sort of your micro environments. What you really want is coverage and then that eradicates. [00:15:29] The way that the the bacillus really works, it really pokes holes into the cell wall of power mildew. So that's, and it just kinda leaks out and dies. And so it's botrytis , and or powder mildew. That's the major effects that it has on these pest diseases. [00:15:43] But in those rare examples, I'll tell you, we've seen some results of our products being used in crops and tropical environments. If it can grow, it's creating more value. Now let's talk about something different. You put bacillus. Sargus into the ground in a soil treatment. It has tremendous effects on colonizing around the roots. [00:16:01] And so that's where bacillus is actually known in its natural environment into the soil profile. So that's where we really see that the one two value. Now, that's not what we're using it for in grapes. Grapes, is for foliar control of. And mild diseases. But we have many other crops that we use bacillus for like corn, for root management and prolification around the diseases down there. [00:16:27] Craig Macmillan: Do you have anything to add to that, Robert?  [00:16:29] Rob Blundell: Yeah, so that's, yeah, excellent points from Nevada. So yeah, kind, kind of getting, talking about how we can use bacillus, you know, actually to go into the soil. So something like nematodes, you know, that's, that's a huge issue in grapes always has been. It's where we have, you know, root stocks engineered over the years to have, you know, nematode resistant root stocks. [00:16:43] Again, not, not kind of the primary purpose of what we'd be looking to use stargus, and vineyards, but again, having a soil colonizer is fantastic. You know, a lot of the. The majority of diseases, especially in like the row crops, they're coming from the below ground. You know, you've got the pythium and lettuce. [00:16:57] You've got like sclero, things like that, huge kind of soil-borne pathogens. So again, having something that you can add to the soil, you know, the soil already has its own fantastic suite of, naturally present. You know, bacteria, fungi, that's, you know, like Nevada said, that's what we got ab baus from, stargus from. [00:17:12] So we're just kind of adding to that to kind of help boost the fight. And we can always kind of think of the interaction between pathogens and plants as kind of this arms race. There's a ways, you know, the pathogen kind of gets ahead by evolving slightly, and then you have the ho response from the plant and then the, the microbiome as well. [00:17:27] So we're just trying to kind of tip the scales and our balance is how a good way to kind of think of biologicals as well. And I think as you were mentioning, kind of the, the fermentation process, and that's where we get our microbials from. [00:17:37] Every microbe has primary metabolites. That's what's key to basically the survival of a microbe. But then we have secondary metabolites, and these are very highly specialized products that get produced. For bacillus, during that fermentation process, this is a, you know, these are unique metabolites. You know, metabolites are produced by the majority of. Micros, but the in particular can produce these like fantastic suite of very unique metabolites. So that's where the, a non-life product kind of comes into itself as well. By us able to understand what are those metabolites we're producing same fermentation, can we optimize those? And then do we, do we even need a live product as a result of that? [00:18:12] Craig Macmillan: Um, it sounds like this could have a really dramatic impact or role in fungicide resistance management. I. What is that role? Or are we talking about going over completely to biological for a program or are we including in a rotation with other materials? What about organic growing where we have a, a little smaller suite of things that we can use? [00:18:35] Nevada Smith: , I'll start with that if you don't mind. [00:18:36] I think it's a great question and where I see it fitting is most synthetic pesticides for disease control are really affecting the mitochondria on the inside of the dupo. And where I see it fitting is the sort of one, two, I would say contact plus systemic. That's an a de-risk, your resistance management issues. But B, increase the likelihood that those products work better and longer. [00:19:02] So today we position a product like Sargus other bacillus products in the marketplace to be in combination with a. SDHI chemistry, like Luna would be an example of that, or Pristine. We would see those integrated in the cycle of sprays, which is, it's very similar to why you use sulfur with those products as well. [00:19:23] But I think, you know, as a winemaker, I want less sulfur my crop as possible, but obviously I want, as a farmer too, I want it to be clean as can be. So it's kind of this yin and yang overall. [00:19:33] But for resistance management, I think you have to really think about the whole approach. And once again, back guardrails. Of what your restrictions are for you as a farmer and maybe the winemaker working together with them. How do you really get to the. And, you know, I, it's kind of a joke too, but we talked about earlier the word sustainability be very broad. Stroke. Well, I'm wanna farm into the future years. I wanna have that vineyard for a hundred years and not to replant it. So I'm really trying to keep as clean as possible all the time, especially for the over wintering stuff. And so to me early often protection, control contact plus systemic is the approach that we take at our farm as well. [00:20:10] Craig Macmillan: When we say earlier, are we talking bud break, two inches, four leaves?   [00:20:15] Nevada Smith: For powder. Yeah. But then we could debate, you know, on these opsis issues and can cane issues. [00:20:24] Craig Macmillan: When would I wanna put on a bacillus? [00:20:27] Nevada Smith: I would start with a sulfur spray about bud break here, and then kind of rotate back into the bloom time for the first bloom spray, about 50% bloom, more or less. I kind of time it too, and if it's a little later, I'm okay with that. That would be the major time where I get the first shots on and that we, I would start with regalia, for example, just because it's a different mode of action. And then I'd come back with the bacillus here about seven to 10 days later. [00:20:51] Craig Macmillan: And would you then include synthetic materials as well, I'm assuming. [00:20:55] Nevada Smith: Yeah, on our farm we would typically our biggest issue is getting across the, the vineyard. And so we're looking to start off with a synthetic material first, just so we can get a nice, well, sulfur first, sorry. That probably like A-S-D-H-I chemistry. And then I'd start to think about how can I integrate my approaches to, being softer chemistry based through the rest of the season. [00:21:17] Craig Macmillan: Does that make sense to you, Robert? [00:21:19] Rob Blundell: Yes. And actually I'm just gonna jump back a little bit in our conversation. I just add a few more details kind of on this approach as well. So yeah, a little bit earlier, I kinda mentioned this arms race between the pathogen and the host and, you know, the available treatments that we have and really kind of a huge benefit of. Adding a biological, say, into your conventional program or just introducing more biologicals in general for your, your fungicides is you know, as, as Nata was saying, you know, a lot of the conventional chemistry is targeted in that mitochondria. It's a very specialized kind of function. It's there, it does a great job when it works well, but then. [00:21:51] We get pathogen resistance, obviously. So there's kind of two types of resistance. You get qualitative resistance and quantitative. So qualitative is when there is a kind of sudden or abrupt loss in the ability of say, a fungicide to work. And then you have quantitative where it's kind of more of a gradual decline in effectiveness. [00:22:08] And then you get kind of these varying levels of fungicide sensitivity versus that qualitative where you're having either resistant or a sensitive is isolate. And this. It's great. We're talking about grapes and powerdy mildew, 'cause this is one of like, this is like the classic textbook example. We kind of get taught in pathology about this because powerdy mildew, it has these really quick cycling times, produces a number of generations per season, very easily dispersed. [00:22:28] So this is such a high risk kind of category for this fungicide resistance. So again, if we have just a whole range of availabilities in terms of different fungicide options, you know, chemistry, soft chemistry, biologicals various other options, we're just kind of increasing our chances of really. Just well, and one not having any pathogen resistance. [00:22:49] Because again, as soon as you have that, then you have you, you really lose your options for your chemistries. So again, just, you know, introducing a few biologicals here and there, especially for, you know, grapes on the West coast, which is the amount of sprays we're having to do in other states where you have less sprays, you can kind of get away with kind of not considering your approach a little bit more. [00:23:05] You don't have to kind of. Do your frack checks as much because maybe you're only doing one or two sprays. But here we have to be very, very concerned with our, you know, what products we're using and then at what timing they're using. So again, just having a biological to really kind of take the pressure off some of those chemistries is a, is a huge a huge, valuable source of preserving the life of your chemistry. [00:23:23] And then have, like Nevada said, you know, having sustainable wines for the years to come. [00:23:28] Craig Macmillan: Actually, that made me think of something. Is there a risk of resistance being developed to biological strategies? [00:23:38] Rob Blundell: Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. So yes. [00:23:41] It's kind of a newer question. Yeah. So again, with a lot of these chemistries being very, very site specific function, all you have to do is have a very small mutation in your, say, powerdy mildew, to overcome that. And typically with biologicals, the typically, I say typically the mode of action is a little bit more broad. [00:23:57] So very rarely are you gonna have an extremely like. , so like a lot of the chemistries buy into certain receptors that their job that do that really well. Biologicals don't tend to do that as much. They're more of a broad spectrum. That's why we see a, like for our fungicides, we see a range of control against a lot of different, you know, powerd mildew, we've got ascomiscies,, Presidio, my seeds, they pretty much do well across a range because they are more broad spectrum. [00:24:19] Not to say that in time we're gonna start to see a decline. It's, you know, again, it's kind of really how we consider using them. And we. Whether we wanna like, fully rely on them or hey, that's, let's, let's use more of a, a combined approach. So again, we just really make that sustainable as well. [00:24:33] So kind of to answer your question definitely it comes with risk but kind of inherently due to the more broad spectrum nature of biologicals, we're not too worried about the kind of resistance that we've seen developed as a result of c chemistries in that very, very specific function of a chemistry. [00:24:48] Craig Macmillan: That makes a lot of sense. I know that you had mentioned you're farming in a more traditional fashion, Nevada, but your products, and obviously I know some folks in the organic area. What role do biologicals play in an organic fungicide program? Nevada? [00:25:03] Nevada Smith: I think it's definitely at the core of your foundation of seeing how you are gonna approach powerdy, mildew and botrytus. Is it a typical, you know, seven spray system, which I'd say it's kind of typical for the northern coast markets or the coastal range. Or if you're in the valley floor are you more in that three to five applications for bio pesticides and, and what timing and how you're approaching those things are critical overall to assessing those on the organic. [00:25:30] You don't have to be just organic. You could be, from a theoretical point of view, you can just choose to be this type of farmer, which is, I want to choose softer chemistries. And I think that's the mixed bag that we deal with with customers, a crop and the crop advisors out there. [00:25:44] Rob Blundell: Yeah, and I was gonna say just to kinda add to that as well. So again, regardless whether you're doing organic or chemistry or biologicals, you know. Really key as well. Foundation is just having good cultural control as well. Something we haven't really touched on today, but again, you can really increase the effectiveness of your biological, your chemistry based on what you're doing in, in the vineyard. [00:26:02] So, you know, things like, you know, canopy thinning, so if you're using say, a biological, you wanna try to colonize those berries, you wanna kind of thin out that kind of piece. You're getting a better spray coverage. You're also gonna, you know, reduce the humidity and that kind of pee of things like mildew you know, effective pruning in dry conditions. [00:26:18] Navar was kind of talking about opsis, some of those canker pathogens. So those grapevine trunk diseases, that is still the most effective way to control a grapevine trunk disease is just to prune under the right conditions. 'cause you need that wound, that pruning wound to heal when it's, you're not gonna get a, let's see, you know, we got that ring coming in this week. [00:26:33] So, grapevine trunk disease is dormant on those on the, on the parts of the vine. They're gonna be airborne. So you need to make sure there's a very good dry window. So again, like cultural practice is always, always key to whatever approach or biologicals or chemicals. [00:26:46] Nevada Smith: I think the add to that, one of the biggest things I remember, I wanna say it's like in 2010, I saw Gubler trials, Gubler, uc, Davis, you know, famous for everything. And he had the trial and all he did was pull leaves. On the bunch closures, and I was like, wow, that looked amazing. And I said, what? What spray did you have on there? [00:27:02] And they're like, nothing. We just pulled leaves and just literally that airflow coming across there, drying out, I assume it was just drying out the spores was amazing. I was like, wow. But then I started doing the cost analysis as a grower. I'm like, I can't send a crew there and pull leaves all the time. So, [00:27:19] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, it's true. I mean, and that's why it's a mix of things. I think. It's integrated pest management. You, you know, you do want to get some airflow through there. You will probably do some canopy management, whether you do shoot thinning or leaf removal. Some of that also helps with coverage. [00:27:32] Right. So using a mix of cultural and chemical or pesticide techniques is probably, probably wise. I'm not a pest control advisor, so I probably shouldn't say that. I. But I think I, you, they're not the first folks that have, have reminded me of that. And sometimes I know that, I think we kind of forget. [00:27:49] I wanna change topics a little bit. There's a, I don't wanna say new, but new to me. Area bio fertilizers a totally different kind of strategy for plant nutrition Nevada. What is a bio fertilizer? What, how do they work? What is it and how does it work? [00:28:05] Nevada Smith: So bio fertilizers can be a multitude of things, but once again, back to bio based on living organisms prior living organisms. We happen to have one that we're just launching this year into the grape industry called Illustra. It's based on this unique technology, UBP. Universal biological platform. I'm not trying to be a billboard ad here, but the reason why I'm bringing it up is it, it's really is a platform, which is interesting about it because it's, it's a technology that we can change and manipulate depending on how we go through the production cycle. And so we're creating tools that are more made for abiotic stresses. [00:28:39] And so we're trying to deal with different stresses that. Crop can deal with. And so right now the core market that we've been using these products , for is like soybeans and corn. [00:28:49] But as we think about the permanent crop markets of grapes, tree nuts, citrus, it's a little bit different as far as cycle and how you approach it. And so what we've seen through the data, these bio fertilizers is really trying to mitigate abiotic stresses. So what we're really mitigating is one, like you, you think about herbicide applications. You kind do a banded application near the tree trunk into about a third of the spray row. That herbicide usually hits that tree trunk. [00:29:14] There is a cause and effect on the grapevine itself. What if you could put a tool down that was sprayed on the same time to mitigate that stress or de-stress it from even how much time and pressure it's having? So. Our product is really one of those tools today that's really focused on mitigating biotic stresses. [00:29:30] Other things I can think about as a farmer is like salinity in the soil. The roots are pushing. You have water issues in California. We all talk about that. How do you mitigate the plant that still maximize the yield? So. Choosing the bio fertilizer today that's really focused on that, not just being a typical, you know, can 17 or un 30 twos based nitrogen based products. [00:29:51] This is something else to bring into the marketplace. They're kind of more niche based, depending on what you're dealing with. But there there's several out there. There's, seaweed extracts would be a big one, right? That people use a lot around farms. There's humic, andic acids, organic acids in general. So those are the kind of the buckets of items today that farmers are choosing for bio fertilizers. [00:30:14] Rob Blundell: Hmm. Yeah. And I can yeah, touch a little bit more on the, on the UBP illustrate product as well in terms of kind of how, how that really functions. And as Navar said, it's, you know, helping bounce back after, say, some herbicide damage, promoting that early season boost in biomass. [00:30:27] So, you know, a product like this, this UBP will basically kind of. Inducing cell division. So in you know, increasing mitochondrial activity, more cell division essentially leads to more chlorophyll, more photosynthesis graded by a mass production. And it's actually done by acidifying the cell wall. So we acidify a cell wall. You get more what we have these, there's proton pumps on these cell wall. [00:30:48] We're basically pumping in more protons, increasing the rate of that cell division. So we're basically yeah, boosting that in ocean season biomass. Therefore having that. You know, quicker resilience to say, you know, abiotic stresses like no said, whether it's salinity, salt, drought, water, things like that. [00:31:02] So yeah, numerous, numerous benefits of some of these fertilizers. [00:31:07] Craig Macmillan: Which actually talking about antibiotic stress, that it reminds me of something. I want to apply it to this, but I also want to go back. If you're using a live material, a bacillus or something, or if you have a, a bio fertilizer that may is are there living things in bio fertilizers. [00:31:22] Nevada Smith: There can be, [00:31:24] uh [00:31:24] Craig Macmillan: be. Okay. [00:31:25] Nevada Smith: We don't have anything in ours today, but I think there are, let's call the word impregnated Fertilizers. With living organisms. It could be trico, dermas, it could be other things, bacillus. And those are good, good tools to use. [00:31:39] The hard part is like, you know, now we start to open the can of worms around like compost tea, like what's in there. And I think that's the biggest challenge that growers, those things do work as a whole. But then you start to run into the quality assurance, quality control. And I think that's where companies invest in the bio pesticide industry are really trying to. Tell the story and not just be perceived as snake oils and saying, Hey, replicated work we measure to this level, like CFU content and here's what we expect results to be consistently. [00:32:08] And this is sort of the shelf life issues and we're kind of getting as a, you know, the world evolves. I think there's just this environmental things that people choose to do. And I think, you know, everything works. Just a question of how you integrate it into your own farming systems. [00:32:24] Craig Macmillan: So speaking of environmental factors and antibiotic stress one thing that's occurred to me is that if I have something that's that's out there, either that's living or maybe maybe a fragile compound, how do things like drought and heat affect these materials in the field? [00:32:38] Rob Blundell: Yeah. Yeah, very good question. I think historically that was always kind of. What people thought of the negative of biologicals were like, well, is only gonna work under certain conditions. You know, where, where have you tested it? So yeah, it's, it's a good question as well. [00:32:50] It's , case by case dependent you know, certain extremes and temperatures, various conditions as well are gonna have effects on, you know, the, the longevity of that. But we, you know, we try to test it under. There a variety of conditions. And then for particularly something you know, with our fungicides as well for, for the grape industry, you know, these new be tested on a variety of key varietals as well. [00:33:10] You know, it's, Hey, it might work for Chardonnay but not for Sauvignon Blanc. So that's important to evaluate as well, rather than just bring a product to market that like you, it's only gonna work on very certain aspects of a, of the single industry. [00:33:22] Craig Macmillan: So heat as an example, , you have a fair amount of confidence that I can apply something in the, in the heat if I have a hot, dry condition in the summer that it's not going to. Break down those materials that are there from the fermentation or kill the live organism. We, we think there's a fair amount of resilience here. [00:33:39] Rob Blundell: Yeah, again, definitely gonna be dependent on the, the type of microbe and the type of metabolite that it's producing. But you know, microbes in nature are exposed to these extreme conditions just naturally anyway, you know, so we have epi amplified slipping on the surface of products. So on the surface of. [00:33:54] Structures. So like a grapevine, like a leaf. They're obviously out there and exposed to the elements every single day. And then the soil is a, is a chaotic environment. There's a lot going on in the soil. So microbes are just, you know, extremely resilient in nature themselves. So there's gonna be a, again it's gonna vary depending on, you know, the microbe and, and the product we're using. [00:34:12] But there's good efficacy. [00:34:16] Craig Macmillan: What's the future? What is the future looking like for biological products, living or extra? [00:34:23] Nevada Smith: for the marketing hat on myself, not the farmer side. [00:34:27] It, I think everything's coming down to specialized sprays. And if I had to vision what the features look like to me, it's gonna be about. Seeing robots down the vineyard. They have 18 different things and their little mechanisms and there's, they're just, they're analogizing what's going on in that grape cluster itself. [00:34:44] They're spot spraying three or four things and they're going down the next level. That to me, is where we're gonna get down to the future, where the grapes themselves will naturally grow less chemicals to be used overall. [00:34:54] but if you need to go through and really take care of a problem, you're gonna go through and take care of a problem. And I think that's where it's become very exciting to me. You're gonna put less of a prophylactic spray across all systems, and you're kind of really create some microenvironments where you think that Vine number seven got sprayed a lot. Vine number 21 has not been sprayed all season. Wonder why? Let's go check it out. Let's understand and investigate. [00:35:18] The other big thing I think in grapes that's really interesting from exploratory research and development side for our company is like viruses. Viruses have not been addressed and it's becoming an issue. It's something I want to kind of explore and put on our docket of, you know, assessment stuff and how we can take new technologies to really improve virus transmissions. How do you mitigate once you have a virus? And it still produce that vine for another 10 plus years. So it gets quality and quantity out of it. Those are the kind of things interesting to me. [00:35:50] Craig Macmillan: Robert. [00:35:51] Rob Blundell: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, really good point, Sarah as well. And yeah, viruses in particular is, is something we see about in the grapevine industry. And yeah, often biological companies we're focused on, you know, the, the fungal issues, the bacteria, the, the nematodes. So that's, that's a huge area that really needs some more dedication. [00:36:06] So there's gonna be some great technologies available for that in the future. Yeah, I think to speak to no Nevada's points on kind of the future of it, I think like a really kind of custom tailored approach is gonna be available for those that want it. Particularly from the pathology side of my interest. [00:36:19] I think precision monitoring and detection of disease is just, I. Advancing leaps and bounds. So again, like, you know, going out there and doing scouting, hopefully people are gonna have a lot better tools available, available to 'em in the near future to really kind of understand crucial times in their season where disease is coming in. [00:36:36] And then again, like I. Just having better tools to kind of really actually di inform us of the pathogen as well that's present rather than just again, a lot of, a lot of diseases is hard to pinpoint to an exact pathogen. We're lucky in grapes, powerdy, mildew, and, botrytis are very obvious. We know what those are, we think are some of the row crops. [00:36:52] It could be a whole host of things. We've got nematodes, we've got various sore pathogens that we can't actually see. So I think yeah, improving disease diagnosis and detection, having these precision tools is gonna be a huge part of the future where biologicals can integrate themselves in as well. [00:37:07] Craig Macmillan: That sounds pretty exciting. I wanna thank you both for being on the program. This has been a really great conversation. My guests today we're Nevada Smith. He is the head of Marketing North America and Robert Blande, who's a research plant pathologist, both with Pro Farm Group. Thanks for being on the podcast. [00:37:22] Nevada Smith: Appreciate you. [00:37:23] Rob Blundell: Thank you very much, Craig. It was a pleasure. [00:37:25] Craig Macmillan: And to our listeners, thank you for listening to Sustainable Wine Growing Vineyard team. [00:37:29] Nevada Smith: Craig, one more thing. We gotta just drink more wine.  [00:37:40] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. [00:37:41] Today's podcast was brought to you by Vineyard Industry Products serving the needs of growers since 1979. Vineyard industry products believes that integrity is vital to building long-term customer, employee, and vendor relationships. And they work hard to provide quality products at the best prices they can find. Vineyard industry products gives back investing in both the community and the industry. [00:38:06] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Pro Farm, an article titled, what are Bio Pesticides Plus Related Sustainable Wine Growing Podcast episodes. 117 Grapevine Mildew Control with UV Light 123. What's happening in biologicals for pest management and plant health? 266 Soft pesticide trial for powdery mildew, downy mildew, botrytis and sour rot, and a healthy soils playlist. [00:38:34] If you'd like the show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. You can find all of the podcasts on vineyard team.org/podcast, and you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org. Until next time, this is Sustainable Wine Growing with the Vineyard team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

I just read an article in Wine Enthusiast that Riesling is one of the fastest-growing wine varieties on the market. According to the article, people are looking for crisp-bright wines; of course, Riesling fits that bill. Our first wine says it pairs well with chicken, fish, and spicy cuisines. Nero D'Avola is known for its dark fruit-driven flavors, full-bodied, and medium to medium-high tannins. In addition to the dark fruit, may get flavors of licorice, tobacco, and pepper.Meritage is a wine blended with the Bordeaux grape varieties, typically from outside of Bordeaux. The five Bordeaux grapes are Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, Cabernet Franc, Malbec, and Petite Verdot. Pronounced like “heritage”. Tonight, we try these three wines from Trader Joe's.2023 Emma Reichart Dry Riesling, purchased for $5.99. Aromas of apricot, honeysuckle, citrus, minerality, and green apple. This wine comes from Germany with 11.5% alcohol.2022 Epicuro Nero D'Avola is from Sicilia DOP. Trader Joe's had this wine for $5.99. Fermented and aged in stainless steel. It has 13.7 g/L of residual sugar making this an off-dry wine. Reverse Wine Snob says aromas of red berry and cherry cough drop fruit, with touches of licorice and spice. Less complex but still a very affordable example of Nero d'Avola. It has 12.5% alcohol.2022 Roustabout Meritage from Paso Robles, California. Purchased for $7.99. Aromas of dark fruit with cola, tobacco, and pepper. Many reviews mention a jammy or over ripe fruit taste. 13.6% alcohol. This wine has 44% Merlot, 39% Cabernet Sauvignon, 15% Malbec and 2% Cabernet Franc. Next week we are learning more about blind tasting. We are also going to reminisce about the 70's.

It's Monday, Let's raise a glass to the beginning of another week. It's time to unscrew, uncork or saber a bottle and let's begin Exploring the Wine Glass!  On today's episode, I'm joined by the brilliant mind behind Wine Folly, Madeline Puckette—a graphic designer turned wine educator who's made wine approachable, visual, and dare I say... fun. We talk about her unexpected journey into the wine world, her collaboration with Paso Robles, and what she sees on the horizon for wine education. And because no good podcast is complete without a little oversharing, Madeline blesses us with a moment of “wait... did I just say that out loud?” that had us both in stitches. You won't want to miss this one—it's educational, inspirational, and just the right amount of TMI. Let's dive in. While you are listening, it would be greatly appreciated if you could take one minute to subscribe, rate and review. It takes only a few seconds of your time but means so much to the show.  Also, please be sure to check the box for automatic downloads so that new episodes of Exploring the Wine Glass show up in your “next up feed.” The next best way to support Exploring the Wine Glass is to tell your friends. If you enjoy the podcast, your wine loving friends will too. Follow me on all the socials and finally, don't forget to head to the website, Exploring the Wine Glass.com to read the blog, and sign up for the newsletter to keep up with all the happenings.  Slainte!    Find out more about Wine Folly here Music: WINE by Kēvens Official Video Follow me on Instagram!   Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel SIGN UP FOR EXPLORING THE WINE GLASS NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIBE ON iTUNES STITCHER | iTUNES | YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | PODBEAN | AUDIBLE | BOOMPLAY Even ask your smart speaker to play Exploring the Wine Glass GIVE US A RATING AND REVIEW Thoughts or comments? Contact Lori at exploringthewineglass@gmail.com. Please support our sponsors Dracaena Wines - Our Wines + Your Moments + Great Memories Use code 'Explore' at checkout to receive 10% off your first order GET SPECIAL OFFERS FOR DRACAENA WINES

Join wine educator David Reuss, Adv. Somm as he interviews winemaker Ben Salazar on all things Bootleg Paso Robles.

There's immersive art… and then there's FOSO — the Fiber Optic Symphonic Orchestra now glowing at Sensorio in Paso Robles. In this episode of The Pour, Adam goes behind the glow with two world-class creators: internationally acclaimed light artist Bruce Munro, and Emmy-winning composer Nainita Desai.This is the first time Bruce has created a piece where light is fully synchronized to an original orchestral score. And Nainita? She didn't write this music for film or screen — she composed it for a landscape. For movement. For light.Link:Bruce Munro – brucemunro.co.uk Nainita Desai – nainitadesai.com Sensorio – Paso Robles – sensoriopaso.com FOSO – Fiber Optic Symphonic Orchestra -Now open at Sensorio in Paso RoblesTickets & InfoListen to the FOSO Score by Nainita DesaiSponsored by:Tin City Distillery: Join the Private Barrel Club and craft your own custom whiskey. The Pour has its own barrel - you can too! Check it out here: tincitydistillery.com/club/private-barrel-club.Follow Adam:Instagram: @adamontheairWebsite: adammontiel.com – Find episodes, giveaways, and more.Podcasts: Up & Adam, Where Wine Takes You, and The Pour with Adam Montiel—stream wherever you get your podcasts.Pop the cork and join the conversation—this is one pour you don't want to miss!********For info on Tin City Distillery's Private Barrel Club Click Here***********The Pour is recorded, edited, produced, and hosted by Adam Montiel. Follow Adam on Instagram @AdamOnTheAir and check out his daily podcast Up + Adam as well as Where Wine Takes You. To connect with Adam, learn more, or for Spotify or other pod links, visit AdamMontiel.comAbout ‘The Pour with Adam Montiel':In 2010, Radio Host Adam Montiel combined his longtime love for broadcasting with his, then, new love for wine. He created and produced, ‘The Cork Dorks'. The show was hosted with Adam and his good friend Jeremy West. It was the first of its kind. It began focusing on central coast wineries but as the show grew, so did their ability to travel and meet other winemakers they found everywhere from Napa to Bordeaux that adopted that same Central Coast quality of people willing to share their wines, and their stories. As the area's producer's grew, soon Adam's interview's covered everything from spirits, craft beer, cider, cuisine, hospitality, and more. Fast forward to today, the spirit and enthusiasm cultivated with the award winning show, is reborn as The Pour with Adam Montiel, this time independently, and unfettered by corporate authority leaving it even more free to share the journey of making wine more approachable and fun for everyone.  Here, We Taste It. We Spill It. We Leave it All On the Table. This is ‘The Pour' with Adam Montiel.__________Sincere Thanks to those who support The Pour. Please take a moment and visit them and thank them for supporting local broadcasting, and valuing what we do here. Thank you for supporting them!Original Music, ‘Come Alive' by Dan Curcio and Moonshiner Collective Moonshiner on Spotify HEREFollow Adam on Instagram HEREPlease Rate, Review, and Subscribe to the podcast, and learn more at AdamMontiel.com

Amid news of oversupply and decreased demand, the wine industry has an opportunity to adapt to the changing market. Audra Cooper, Director of Grape Brokerage, and Eddie Urman, Central Coast Grape Broker at Turrentine Brokerage, discuss key grape and wine industry trends, from oversupply and vineyard removals to the growing necessity of sustainable certification. They explore regional dynamics, bulk wine market shifts, and future trends, emphasizing innovation, industry collaboration, and better marketing to stay competitive. Resources:         REGISTER: 4/5/25 Fungicide Spraying: Evolving Strategies & Grower Insights Tailgate 258: 5 Ways Certification Makes Brands the SIP | Marketing Tip Monday 259: Winegrape Market Trends of 2024 265: How to Stand Out on Social Media in 2025 268: How to Tackle Leadership Transitions Successfully Turrentine Brokerage Turrentine Brokerage - Newsletter Vineyard Team Programs: Juan Nevarez Memorial Scholarship - Donate SIP Certified – Show your care for the people and planet   Sustainable Ag Expo – The premiere winegrowing event of the year Vineyard Team – Become a Member Get More Subscribe wherever you listen so you never miss an episode on the latest science and research with the Sustainable Winegrowing Podcast. Since 1994, Vineyard Team has been your resource for workshops and field demonstrations, research, and events dedicated to the stewardship of our natural resources. Learn more at www.vineyardteam.org.   Transcript [00:00:00] Beth Vukmanic: Amid news of oversupply and decreased demand, the wine industry has an opportunity to adapt to the changing market. [00:00:11] Welcome to Sustainable Wine, growing with the Vineyard team, where we bring you the latest in science and research for the wine industry. I'm Beth Vukmanic executive director. [00:00:22] In today's podcast, Craig McMillan, critical resource Manager at Niner Wine Estates. With Longtime SIP Certified Vineyard, and the first ever SIP certified winery speaks with Audra Cooper, director of Grape Brokerage and Eddie Urman, central Coast Grape Broker At Turrentine Brokerage, [00:00:41] they discuss key grape and wine industry trends from oversupply to vineyard removals to the growing necessity of sustainable certification. They explore regional dynamics, bulk wine market shifts and future trends. Emphasizing innovation, industry collaboration, and better marketing to stay competitive. [00:01:01] If you love infield education and are on California Central Coast on April 25th, 2025, please join us at the fungicide spring tailgate hosted at Cal Poly. In San Luis Obispo, California, Dr. Shunping Ding will share updated results from a 2024 study on fungicide programs using bio fungicides and their impact on grape yield and berry chemistry. Then we'll visit the Cal Poly Vineyard to explore new powdered mildew management technologies and discuss fungicide spraying programs. With farmers from throughout the central coast to register, go to vineyard team.org/events or look for the link in the show notes. [00:01:44] Craig Macmillan: Our guests today are Audra Cooper. She's Director of Grape Brokerage with Turrentine Brokerage. And also, Eddie Urman, who's Central Coast Grape Broker with Turrentine Brokerage as well. And thanks for coming back. This is part two of a, of a, of an episode here. So, I really appreciate you folks making time to come back. [00:02:00] Audra Cooper: Thank you for having us back. We're excited to join you once again. [00:02:04] Eddie Urman: Yeah, thanks for having us. [00:02:05] Craig Macmillan: So Audra, let's start with you. In our last conversation . [00:02:17] And that was kind of where we left it that then started a conversation amongst the three of us afterward. We were like, okay, there's a lot more to talk about here. So let's do it. [00:02:24] Can you give some examples of what you mean by getting ahead of changes? [00:02:30] Audra Cooper: I think it's a sound business strategy to always try and stay ahead of the curve regardless of what component of business or what industry you're in, right? It's just a, a good strategy to have and a good philosophy to have. It's really important in this industry to continue to stay relevant and in order to stay relevant, you have to stay within the trend or ahead of the trend. [00:02:51] Being behind the eight ball is, never a good thing . You need to be ahead of the curve. A good example of that is sustainable certification. And we still have these discussions on the daily and Eddie, you can talk to this too about how often we have to talk about if you're not sustainably certified, you are cutting your buyer pool, probably roughly in half, as I mentioned in the previous podcast, and you're limiting yourself. [00:03:18] And the majority of the practices, most growers are probably already doing, and they're just not going through the certification process and getting that done. And if you look back a little over a decade ago, it was something that wineries were paying, you know, 25, 50 per ton more for, they were paying a premium. [00:03:36] And then it became more of a, this is really nice to have. And so more and more growers We're doing it as a point of differentiation in their marketing. And now today it's almost a necessity. It's no longer something that's necessarily going to get you a premium price for your grapes. It's also not necessarily a point of differentiation any longer. [00:03:55] It's a need to have. [00:03:57] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, Eddie, do you have anything to add to that? [00:03:59] Eddie Urman: No, I think that's a great example. , Audra offered up. [00:04:02] Craig Macmillan: So there's, trends around that, and there's a lot of certifications now, and I agree, I think a lot of folks don't need to be afraid of whatever the certification is, because you're probably doing a lot of those things already, a lot of common practices. [00:04:13] I think that's an interesting insight that now it's kind of becoming expected or certainly a requirement for a lot of wineries. [00:04:19] Let's talk about changes in acreage. That's where we left off last time when we were talking about the difference between vineyard removals, which have been suggested, recommended, et cetera, by a number of folks in the industry as we just are in oversupply period I've heard estimates that we may have 30 to 35, 000 acres of grapes, more than we need based on current demand. [00:04:40] how accurate do you think that is? , how bad is it on the supply side? [00:04:45] Audra Cooper: Well, I think you have a couple parts to that question, right? Let's dissect that a little bit and start with, we just got back from the Unified Wine Grape Symposium in Sacramento, and of course, during the State of the Industry, Jeff Bitter gave his annual synopsis of the nursery survey that they do annually on how many vines were sold, and they do a, A lot of data work in regards to what were removals and his number that he reported over the last two years was 37, 500 acres have been removed from the state of California. [00:05:15] He believes based on their research that another 50, 000 acres need to be removed to reach the point of balance, assuming that consumption stays at its current rate or drops just a tiny bit. [00:05:29] And when we look at our information internally, now we don't do a survey like Allied does, but we're tracking a lot of information, both with our winery partners as well as our grower partners in regards to who's doing what, and our number's a little bit higher, but we also go back four years technically going back to 2022, our number for the state of California is closer to about 50, 000 acres that have been removed, and, you know, I would argue that If consumption stays flat, certainly there will need more removals, but I don't know about 50, 000 acres more. [00:06:04] That seems like an awful lot of acres that need to be removed. If his numbers are right, that would put us back to Basically global recession numbers, which would be around 500, 000 acres bearing.  [00:06:16] Craig Macmillan: right. in the Grape Crush Report, which is an annual report that's put out by, uh, California Department Of Food and Agriculture and the National Agricultural Statistics Service, there is a non bearing acres section in there, which I always find very interesting. Are we able to glean anything from that data in terms of what's been sold, what we think's gonna go back in, et cetera? [00:06:39] I want to put a timestamp on this. So this is being recorded first week of February, 2025. So the unified was in 2025. The report that's coming out is going to be for the 2024 year. [00:06:48] What can we learn from that non bearing acreage report?  [00:06:51] Audra Cooper: So there's two different reports. the acreage report will be coming out a little bit later in the year. We're going to have our crush report come out on February 10. I think you can glean two pieces of information, but both are very similar. And that is how much acreage has actually been removed and how light the crop truly was, particularly in the coastal regions for 2024. [00:07:10] And so when we look at, for example, a 23 bearing and non bearing acreage information from the state of California they're reporting 446, 000 acres of bearing wine grapes. And if you take that at, say, 7 tons an acre, that's 3. 12 million tons. And we know with certainty at 7 tons an acre, That acreage seems pretty low. [00:07:35] It doesn't seem realistic. So unfortunately, because it's a voluntary report when it comes to bearing versus non bearing acres, I do think that the state's probably about two years behind on real data trends. And so unfortunately right now, if you were to use that report as, you know, an analysis of the industry, you'd probably be a bit off. [00:07:54] Craig Macmillan: got it, got it. Are there trends in what varieties are coming out and what varieties are going back in? Because that's often been the driving force for removals and replants, is chasing the marketplace. Are we seeing that kind of thing in California? [00:08:11] Audra Cooper: Yeah, you know, I'll I'll touch on this a little bit and then turn it over to Eddie. It's, it's really difficult to predict in our industry how and what and when to plant, right? Because you are following a trend and a trend that you're going to be lagging behind in trying to meet because of the amount of time it takes to get a crop and a crop that is productive. [00:08:31] And so oftentimes we're abridged, Yeah. Yeah. too far behind in regards to consumer trends. When we look at the central coast as a whole, there's certainly some segmented dynamics on what's being removed versus planted. And, you know, a good place to start, of course, is Paso. Eddie, do you want to talk a little bit more about that? [00:08:51] Eddie Urman: Yeah we do see some trends of, varieties, being pushed out more frequently than others. You know, for the Central Coast, a couple that come to mind are, Zin, Pinot Noir Merlot is one that historically came out. If it's still there, still going out, and then more specifically, old vines is probably the more specific categories. You are seeing a lot of Cab being pushed, that are old vines, but likely to go back into Cab if it gets replanted. [00:09:17] Audra Cooper: that's an interesting trend, because when we're looking at what was purchased based on the survey numbers that Jeff Bitter reported, he was talking about 12, 000 acres being planted based on their survey in 2024, and an overwhelming percentage was still red varietals, which really bucks the trend on what we're seeing observing boots on the ground. [00:09:41] What we've mainly been seeing planted are more alternative whites and niche whites like Grenache Blanc, Pinot Grigio Astrotico, you know, very specific alternative whites in which they're trending with DTC and kind of smaller producers. Certainly we still see some redevelopment of Cabernet as well as Pinot Noir and Chardonnay, not so much on the red blender side or Merlot. [00:10:06] Those seem to be being pulled out and not redeveloped. [00:10:09] Craig Macmillan: Are we seeing any changes or trends around Okay, I'm pushing out Cabernet. I'm going to replant Cabernet. , am I going to replant the same amount of Cabernet? Am I using this as an opportunity to plant new ground? Do we have any information about that kind of thing? [00:10:24] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I mean, to give you hard data would be challenging. I don't know that anyone really has, a hard, fast calculation of what they do and don't do in regards to, the varietal makeup of a redevelopment. And I do want to clarify, I think there's a common misconception, particularly in the coastal regions that This is new net acreage. [00:10:43] It's not new net acreage. A lot of this is redeveloped acreage, but it will be higher in productivity based on, you know, better vines, healthier vines, better spacing, new farming technology, and so forth. And so we'll have new net supply based off that acreage. In full production. When you look at the new developments, though, and it was save paso cab, for example, it's really difficult to say, Oh, well, let's do 50 percent cab and 50 percent red blenders. [00:11:14] I mean, that's a tough decision to make. And you're really making a a pretty risky bet. I think for most people, they're going to plant to the site and also to the trend in the market. And so oftentimes, for example, again, Paso Cab, you're still going to have Cabernet largely go back in on those redevelopments. [00:11:31] When you look at Santa Barbara County, I think they're diversifying a little bit more than they had been in the past. You're not largely just Chardonnay Pinot Cab. You're also seeing alternative reds and whites being planted in that area. Monterey County, when you look at that region, it tends to be a little bit more mixed bag, but still largely chardonnay then in the southern Monterey County area, cabernet and red blenders. [00:11:54] Craig Macmillan: Do you have anything to add to that, Eddie? [00:11:56] Eddie Urman: As far as the rate of what's going back in the ground, you know, in acres. I think as far as East Paso goes Monterey County, Santa Barbara County, we're seeing contraction as far as more acres coming out that are going back. The only area we do see more plantings that are new, it is in the West side of Paso. And it's substantial. I think there's a good amount of acres that have gone in the West side. [00:12:17] Being from the growing side, I think we always wanted to diversify away from Cabernet and Paso Robles specifically, but the reality is the majority of people still want to buy Cabernet. So if anything, I'm worried that growers expect other varieties to try to diversify their portfolio that might not match the demand. [00:12:37] Craig Macmillan: Right, right. And speaking of demand. , we're talking about land and grapes, what's the current state of the, the bulk wine market where you'd expect a lot of the sovers to go where are we kind of at and what do you think are going to be the impacts on the bulk wine market with the replanting? [00:12:53] Audra Cooper: currently right now, listed available with us is about 28 million gallons. We anticipate that it will climb to probably 30, maybe past 30 million gallons at the peak of listing this year, which is typically early summer. In large part, that's still 2023 vintage. However, we do still have some 21, 22, and of course now new 24 is being listed. [00:13:18] The rate of listing is not being eclipsed by the rate of, you know, attrition decline in regards to bulk wine being removed from the market, whether that's through sales or higher and better use internally for those who are listing it. So we still have an off kilter balance there and certainly dramatically an oversupply and that dynamics likely to continue for the next couple of years until we see consumption increase and, and therefore increasing demand for new products. [00:13:45] Typically when we've seen these large increases in availability, what's gotten us out of it is the negotiants who are developing new brands, particularly when we look back to the premiumization sector. We saw a lot of middle tiers, you know, the likes of Duckhorn and Joel Gott and several others who were growing programs that they may have had for a couple of years, but they were very small and they've broadened those to other Appalachians or California and went to the bulk market first to kind of grow those programs before they started grape contracting. [00:14:16] So we're going to need to start seeing that trend in order to clean that market up. [00:14:19] Craig Macmillan: And so that's, that's basically good news, you think, for the bulk wine supply going down the road. [00:14:23] Audra Cooper: I think. In the future, it is in the short term. It's rather painful to have that amount of availability, right? We've been tracking this for the better part of three decades, and there's never been a single calendar year in which we've carried this amount of inventory, particularly going into last harvest, it was the highest inventory we'd ever seen in our tracking. [00:14:44] Keep in mind that this is what's listed available for us. This is not going out and taking inventory of what everyone has in tank that they're not necessarily going to bottle or they don't have a program for. So you can easily maybe double that number and that's what the likely availability is. [00:15:03] Craig Macmillan: Eddie what do you think is going to happen with pricing on on bulk wine? Yeah, I know that you're a specialized in grapes. But obviously those growers are concerned about what's going to happen to those grapes. From the grower side, how attractive is it right now to turn product into bulk wine, do you think? [00:15:21] Eddie Urman: I would say it's very, very, very much not attractive. Uh, we would. Not advocate for that in most scenarios for growers at this time regarding bulk pricing, you know, bulk wine, obviously we have bulk people who have better insight than Audrey, but in general, it's not going to be good. We don't, we don't foresee an increase in price as. we're obviously seeing an increase in supply of bulk wine, that typically is going to still have more downward pressure on price. And as far as growers bulking wine, it's, I think, a very risky game right now. You know, bulk wine does have a life expectancy, to Audra's point earlier. And, know, if you bulk it now, you have to sell it eventually to make your money back. [00:16:02] And then on top of that, you have to carry those costs with today's interest rates.  [00:16:06] Craig Macmillan: Right, right. So, prices for bulk wine right now, I'm guessing have been on the decline for probably a couple of years. Is that accurate? [00:16:13] Audra Cooper: Yeah, that's an accurate statement. If I were to really think about how long they've been on the decline, I would say probably mid, mid calendar year 2023 is when we start to see the downturn of the market be very, you know, impactful on pricing and overall demand. And of course, increasing inventory is really when that trend started. [00:16:34] I want to kind of go back to what Eddie was talking about regarding you know growers making bulk wine and and how risky that is, you know, we have a saying internally and it's so Elementary, but it's so applicable to these times. Your first loss is typically your best loss or your least loss and so it's really important when you're looking at alternative to market Whether or not you're actually going to be able to optimize how much investment you have in that product, and more often than not, when you're making grapes into bulk wine as a grower, you're not going to have the wherewithal to compete with a competitive set, other wineries, or large growers whose business models incorporate making bulk wine as a producer. [00:17:15] So you really end up being on the losing end of that game. [00:17:19] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, do you see price pressure on growers? Are prices being negotiated down or contracts being changed or not renewed? And if so, does that vary by region, do you think? I know you specialize in the Central Coast, but just from what you know. [00:17:34] Eddie Urman: I think for the Central Coast, it's easy to say that there's still unfortunately more cancellations or evergreens being called and their contracts being executed. There is some activity of people being willing to look at stuff and even make offers, which is good news, but typically it's at a lower pricing. [00:17:51] Craig Macmillan: This is for both of you if I'm a grower and I'm facing this situation both what I can get for my price and then also what the chances are of me selling my stuff on the bulk market, is this a situation where we're maybe better off not harvesting all the crop or mothballing some vineyards for the short term? [00:18:08] Eddie Urman: Yeah, I mean, I think in general, the less we pick this upcoming season that doesn't have a home, you know, the better off if it's picked for, uh, a program where it's actually needed, that's great, but bulking one on spec or taking in more fruit because it's cheap or very, you know, very low cost is not going to be a good thing. good overall thing for the industry. [00:18:30] As far as mothballing, we've talked a lot internally. This is where the conversation came in last time about making tough decisions and being intentional about how you're going to farm or you plant going into the season as a grower is, you know, mothballing is very controversial. [00:18:45] I think for our team, as far as whether it truly works and can you truly come back after it's done, if you're mothballing a Vineyard that's at the end of his life expectancy. You're probably just delaying your pain one more year. Cause it probably will not come back. If you're mothballing a five year old vineyard, maybe it's something that's a different story, but a real tough decision. [00:19:06] Mothballing a young producing vineyard most people are not in that situation. [00:19:12] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I mean, I want to expand a little bit on the, the mothballing and not harvesting fruit. I think it's really important that, you know, while this is a rather negative time in the industry and it's really easy to be very pessimistic. I do want to be optimistic about the needed outcomes and the solutions and the pain that's still rather prevalent in our industry to get kind of to the other side of being healthy. [00:19:36] I do want to be optimistic about some of the newer plantings that we've seen basically since 2012. There is a lot of new to middle aged vineyards that I really hope continue to stay in the ground. They need to stay in the ground because they are the highest and best fit for some of the newer style products in wine. [00:19:54] And we need to be able to continue to keep our wine quality elevated. And so while certainly there's vineyards that need to be removed or, or mothballed and taken out of production, there's also the flip side of that where there's a huge need for some of the. better vineyards and the more sought after vineyards or the vineyards that are priced right for the program that they're going into. [00:20:16] So this is kind of a double edged sword in the sense that yeah, we need plenty of production to be pulled out of the supply chain, but at the same time there's a huge need for very specific supply. So I want to be very careful in classifying those items. [00:20:30] Craig Macmillan: Right. And that brings me to my next question Audra there must be regional differences. Yeah. Yeah. In these patterns, I would assume some areas maybe are a little bit more protected from this kind of contraction or, or expansion over supply and others probably really bearing the brunt. I would guess. Do you see patterns at the state level? [00:20:48] Audra Cooper: I see patterns at the state level, but I can even bring it down to the central coast, even so far down to like even Paso right now. And Eddie and I have been talking about this a lot. You know, we saw a huge uptick in available inventory for east side AVA Cabernet and red blenders and even some of the white. Over the last two years, particularly last year in 2024, [00:21:11] and now we're seeing that dynamic shift from the east side climbing and available inventory. And now the west side is where we're seeing most of our listings come from over the last couple of weeks. And so we're now seeing it kind of push into more of the premium luxury tiers as far as this oversupply and the contraction and the kind of the pain points. [00:21:29] And so we are moving through the channels. Which I know again is, is difficult to hear and it's a very negative position to be in the industry, but it's also a sign that the market and the supply chain is moving through what it needs to move towards in order to come out the other side of this thing on a healthier end. [00:21:48] We comment on this a lot where. You know, it's going to get worse, dramatically worse for a short period of time before it gets better. And we're starting to see kind of the beginning of that position. [00:21:58] Craig Macmillan: What about the San Joaquin Valley? San Joaquin Valley? [00:22:02] Audra Cooper: is actually typically leading the charge in regards to our market, particularly our supply aspect of things, both in grapes and bulk wine. And so when we see A retraction in our industry or oversupply. We typically see it in the interior of the central valley first And when we see kind of a new, Growth stage we see it over there first as well And so they're ahead of us by one to two years Currently and then it kind of follows into the central coast and then up into the north coast and what i've seen Historically when you look back at markets and you look at kind of the time horizons of these things how? Long they live and what pushes the momentum of these markets. You'll typically see it last longer in the Central Valley, tiny bit shorter in the Central Coast and a lot shorter in the North Coast. The North Coast usually doesn't see quite as long of a pain period as the other two regions do. And there's, there's a lot of reasons that we probably shouldn't get into today because it would be a whole nother topic of conversation. [00:23:00] But I do think that the Central Coast right now has got another challenging year ahead of it. But also I think that the on ramp to a more positive industry is a little shorter than what I think people are giving credit for too because a lot of the work is being done, we just got to get through these major pain points first. [00:23:19] Craig Macmillan: We know that consumers drive demand for wine and hence wine grapes but are there other economic forces or political forces or regulatory forces that put pressure on this grape market aside from just consumer demand? [00:23:32] Eddie Urman: again, but 1 of big 1s is, put, it could put pressure to the positive or negative on our industry. We don't really know yet. It's still to be determined. when I read this question, the other thing came to mind to me is, is from a grower's perspective ensuring that you're growing. The compatible correct grapes for your region or varieties or it's staying within where you need to be. If the market for, for example, Chardonnay went through, went to the moon, it doesn't mean everyone in Paso should plant Chardonnay, [00:24:00] even though that's the hot variety, right? [00:24:02] It wouldn't be the best variety for most areas of Those are some of the quicker things that come to my mind. I'll probably elaborate. [00:24:10] Audra Cooper: I think to expand upon that, certainly regulations regarding, you know, water usage and irrigation is is a huge factor. And, and Eddie, you could probably do an entire podcast on that particular topic. And I'm sure that you guys have actually, Craig in addition to that, you really look at the economic environment in which people are growing grapes and producing wine. [00:24:32] And the economy of it is getting, you know, more and more difficult. The margins are getting much smaller. You can argue that more often than not people are taking losses year over year. And that puts a ton of pressure on their cash flow. In addition to that, when you look at the lending environment as well, that's become a lot more say, non conducive to being able to continue with business. In a lot of cases, [00:24:57] we have a handful of clients, if not more, who are questioning, do I prune because I don't necessarily have the same operational loan that I've had over the last couple of years and I've been taking low grape prices in order to survive to the following year, but you can only do that so long before it catches up to you. [00:25:14] And then we have another group or another segment of clientele who will prune, but may end up having to throw in the towel sometime, you know, mid summer or sooner because they don't have enough capital to continue with the grapes or you know, not sold. And then you look at the producer side on the winery side, and, and they too are getting crunched. [00:25:32] You know, we often talk about how low grape prices are, but we forget that, you know, wineries are getting crunched on their bottle price as well in order to nationally distribute. You know, what you see on the shelf as a price point does not necessarily mean that that's a price point to that producer. So the economies of this industry are getting more and more difficult every single year. [00:25:52] Craig Macmillan: Eddie, especially, are you seeing trends towards things like mechanization to try to keep costs down? [00:25:58] Eddie Urman: Yeah, absolutely. I mean mechanization and then automation and the vineyard or two, the , you know, hottest topics so here. And people were definitely making the efforts to try to implement those as they come available. The difficult thing can be oftentimes it's investment in equipment. That's very expensive and you have to truly consider is it going to, is it economically feasible to invest in that equipment and what's the payout time going to be based upon the amount of acres you're farming or how many passes you can do with that piece of equipment. So we're, we're seeing it happen, which is great. [00:26:31] It's innovation and it's heading us in the right direction, but at this point, a lot of it is still quite expensive and not everyone could participate for cost reasons. Yeah. [00:26:41] Craig Macmillan: Going forward, we've talked about this a little bit in terms of how different regions are kind of more paying for longer and some a little bit less and et cetera. And this then translates into the wines that are out there. Audra, you'd mentioned you know, the potential of negotiants to come in and help to alleviate the market. [00:26:59] That's definitely what happened in the nineties from my memory. We saw a lot of negotiate brands pop up because there was a plentiful supply for some of those years. Are there things that companies or government or grower associations, are there things that organizations could do to advise growers or help move people in the right direction in terms of kind of what they need to do? Is the viticulture consulting community? Taking these things into account Eddie, let's start with you, [00:27:29] Eddie Urman: that's a big question. there are plenty of people giving good advice in the industry and growers do have resources to reach out to, but it's very difficult to hear information that doesn't. Align with what you would like to do, right? So taking out our emotions from this from the equation and say, okay, does it really make sense to do this or to do that? Where where's that going to leave us and is that going to be in a position? To move forward in a better, know in a better new industry or new, you know New time in this industry when things rebound there's information out there, but it is difficult extremely difficult right now for growers and wineries to make decisions [00:28:09] Craig Macmillan: Yeah. That's the challenge when you have something like this, where it's individual decisions that lead to mass outcomes. It's hard for me as an individual to say, okay, well, I'm going to do my part. I'm going to keep these 10 acres out of production. Especially when I can see that I could sell to somebody. It's a tough go. Go ahead, Audra. [00:28:24] Audra Cooper: So I'm gonna go off on a tangent here a little bit. [00:28:26] Craig Macmillan: do. [00:28:28] Audra Cooper: I don't know, you might not welcome this one. So, you know, some people know this about me. I'm a pretty big Tony Robbins fan. And, You know, for some of you who don't know who that is, he's a self help guru that does a lot of different events and has written a lot of books and he has a philosophy and a saying that he utilizes through most of events, which is where focus goes, energy flows. [00:28:51] And unfortunately, we have not done the best of jobs being positive about ourselves in the industry, out there in the media, that ultimately is consumed by the masses. And so, I've been on this huge bandwagon about, when we're talking to the media, obviously we need to be rooted in reality, but we need to be as optimistic as we can about who we are and what our why is. [00:29:16] And I think oftentimes when we have these downturns, and this one's a pretty deep one, admittedly. That's the rooted in reality, right? But in these downturns, we tend to turn very, very pessimistic and we fail to remember that to some degree or another. We've been here before, and there have been a lot of innovations and activities and work and leadership that have pulled us out of it, and so we need to remember our history a little bit, I think would be my recommendation there, and I think a lot of the associations do a great job In reminding everyone what the historical background is and in some of our why Paso Robles Wine Country Alliance is a great example of what an association can do for a region on a national and international level. [00:30:03] I will continue to sing their praises because I think they've done a beautiful job in what they've done over the last 15 years. When you look at You know, what's happening from a government and regulation standpoint, you know, we have to band together as a community and be loud voices. We can't just rely on our neighbor or our representative to be our representative voice. [00:30:25] We need to make sure that we continue to be out there and loud. The other thing too is. We have a community, but we have a tendency to not keep collaboration consistent, and I would love to see our industry collaborate a little bit more, particularly on social media. I know that there's a lot of people probably listening to this right now thinking, why is social media even a remote solution? [00:30:48] But the amount of consumption from the younger generation that are now of drinking age that have not adopted wine as a beverage of choice, consume a huge amount of social media, more than they do TV, more than they do reading, more than any other culture. aspect of information gathering or any other platform that's available to them. [00:31:10] And we have an opportunity to band together and collaborate and change the algorithm regarding wine on social media. And I love to see us do that. We haven't done it. And there's various methods of doing that. And again, could probably be another podcast. I'm by no means the foremost expert on that, but our collaborative efforts. [00:31:27] We'll just drop that because I don't even remember exactly [00:31:30] Craig Macmillan: I think that's sound advice And it's always been a challenge. We do have some statewide Organizations that have that mission. They have a lot on their plate But I agree with you. I think that that is definitely the route or it seems to be the route There's more more research coming out that's showing that Not just the time but also like where people get their news You know, it shows you how important that is to them, how important , that venue is to them. [00:31:55] Eddie Urman: 1 of the things for me to extrapolate on that a little bit. What Audra was talking about is unified at the industry hot topics. Um. Rock mcmillan talked for a minute. The ceo of silicon bank about the wine industry Not itself and taking market share from itself, but taking market share from wine from beer from spirits They've clearly done that to us. [00:32:18] I mean It's a competition. It is what it is, and we've not done a great job marketing To younger, younger generations, everybody knows that everybody repeats it, but what are we going to do about it? And how can we as an industry figure out how to do a better job getting people exposed to wine, getting people to enjoy wine? [00:32:37] Audra Cooper: Yeah, I like that, Eddie. It's time to get aggressive and it's time to re enter wine in the conversation of culture and being part of the daily lifestyle. We've let it kind of fall by the wayside and it's time to get aggressive about what wine can be and was and should be here in the near future. [00:32:57] Craig Macmillan: right. You'd mentioned, you know, what's happened in the past. Audra, are there lessons that we learned that we are forgetting from 20 years ago or lessons that we should have learned 20 years ago that might help us now? [00:33:11] Audra Cooper: it's, that's an interesting question, and I think it is a great question of merit, because history does tend to repeat itself I think we need to get better about predictive trends, and I don't know what the answer is to that, I just know that we need to do that and again, we, we kind of talked about it early in the podcast here that, you know, it's really hard to plant a trend, because you're usually behind the eight ball on it. [00:33:38] And I think that we need to get better about how we plan for the future. I think we forget that, you know, Robert Mondavi and the Gallo's and, and countless others who came before us really went out. To the masses and marketed wine, not just their brands or their programs. They were out there to make sure that they were representing the wine industry and the product that we produce first and foremost. [00:34:06] And so I think there's that element. It's not necessarily missing, but it's not loud enough and it's not aggressive enough. And so we definitely need some leaders to come forward in that regard and really push the initiatives. That we fought so hard to stay in business for. When you look back historically to, I think we have a tendency to kind of do the blame game a little bit. [00:34:28] Like, you've planted too much over there on the coast and you've removed too much of the northern interior and you're charging too much up there in the north coast. And the reality is there's a place. For everyone to play and instead of being the competitive set that we are, again, to Eddie's point that Rob McMillan made as state of the industry, we should be looking at how do we take market share from our competitors, which are beer and spirits, RTDs, and so forth, not from each other. [00:34:57] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. It sounds like it's a time when we need to see some new leadership step up or some folks to take leadership roles which is always kind of scary. [00:35:08] Audra Cooper: It is. It's, it's, you know, here's the, the beautiful thing about emotion though. It's usually a call to action. So if we get scared enough. Someone will do something and I think we're just about there, and, and there's probably people working in the shadows that we're not aware of that will probably come forward here soon, you know, there's great leadership at CAWG level with their association as well as the Wine Institute, they're working hard every single day to be lobbyists , for our industry and to be making sure that they're representing our issues and finding solutions, solutions. [00:35:40] You know, one of the big things that I've learned over the last couple of years, particularly this last year, is, is that we are all responsible for our future and making sure our future is compelling. And so we need to be supporting those associations and paying attention to the relevancy of the information that's out there. [00:35:55] Craig Macmillan: Yeah, that's excellent. This is a, again, kind of a, kind of a tangent and it may not lead anywhere, but I, I just had this thought. You were talking about sustainability certifications and how important they are for growers now. Do you think that communicating the sustainability story of wineries and probably done at an individual level and then spreading out from there do you think consumers would respond to that? [00:36:17] Eddie Urman: Yeah it's hard to say because marketing is not my forte, but I, it sure seems like with the trends as far as health conscious and all this, I think it would resonate with them. It really should. And it's something we should probably capitalize on more as an industry in general. Yeah. [00:36:33] Craig Macmillan: That's interesting. Well do you have, does anybody have like a final message or one thing you would tell growers on this topic? Audra, [00:36:40] Audra Cooper: Well, we covered a lot of topics today, and I think I'll leave everyone with the same thing I said earlier, Where focus goes, energy flows, and if we're focused on the negative, and we're focused on how tough the industry is right now, that's where we're going to be. If we're focused on solutions, we'll find one that works, and it's going to be different for everyone. [00:37:04] Everyone's solution may look a little bit different. This is both an individual and industry wide issue that we're facing currently. with the downturn in the industry and the extreme oversupply. But I have faith that the work that's already being done will pull us out of this. We just need to get innovative in how we market to new consumers. [00:37:26] Craig Macmillan: That's great. Where can people find out more about you folks? [00:37:29] Eddie Urman: on our website. , you can get our information on there and reach out and contact us. Anything else Audra. Right. [00:37:44] Audra Cooper: Year you can go to our social media Turrentine Brokerate or you can find me at GrapeBroker on Instagram. You can also call us or email us or text us if you'd like, or smoke signal us too, although please don't carry fires. [00:37:50] Craig Macmillan: Anyway, right. Well, thank you so much. I guess today we're Audrey Cooper she is a director of great brokerage at Turrentine. Brokerage and Eddie Urman, who is the central coast, great broker Turrentine. Thank you both for being here and having such an interesting conversation. It's an important topic with a lot of question marks, lots and lots of questions, but I think we had some good things come out of it and I really appreciate it. [00:38:11] Audra Cooper: All right. Thank you.  [00:38:17] Beth Vukmanic: Thank you for listening. Today's podcast was brought to you by wonderful laboratories. Wonderful laboratories. Operates two state of the art high throughput laboratories to support pathogen detection and nutrient analysis. The team provides full service support to customers with field sampling, custom panels, and special projects. Their customers include pest control advisors, growers, consultants, seed companies, backyard gardeners, researchers, and more. [00:38:45] Make sure you check out the show notes for links to Turntine brokerage. Their previous interview on the Sustainable Winegrowing podcast, that's number 259, wine Grape Market Trends for 2024, plus other sustainable wine growing podcast episodes, including 265. How to stand out on social media in 2025 and 268 how to tackle leadership transitions successfully.   [00:39:10] If you'd like this show, do us a big favor by sharing it with a friend, subscribing and leaving us a review. [00:39:16] You can find all of the podcasts@vineyardteam.org/podcast and you can reach us at podcast@vineyardteam.org. Until next time, this is Sustainable Winegrowing with the Vineyard team.   Nearly perfect transcription by Descript

This Earth Day, we get our hands dirty (in the best way!) with Jason Haas, second-generation proprietor of Tablas Creek Vineyard in Paso Robles, on California's Central Coast. Tablas Creek is the first U.S. winery to earn Regenerative Organic Certification (ROC). Jason breaks down what regenerative organic farming is, why it's a game-changer for the planet and your wine glass, and how Tablas Creek is leading the charge in farming that's good for the soil, the vines and grapes, people, animals and the community.Seems Paso Robles is a mecca for the regenerative organic farming movement. Jason has his theory as to why, and he also tells us how regenerative farming goes beyond organic and biodynamic practices and how these practices increase carbon sequestration.

I had never done a ten-year vertical wine-tasting and didn't know what to expect. A vertical tasting is done with the same wine variety from the same winery and maybe even from the same vineyards, but for different years.However, if you get the chance, take it. I was very impressed. You can taste how the wine changes over time, and with information regarding the growing conditions for each year, you can also taste how the weather affects the wine.Stone Hill Winery in Hermann, Missouri, is one of the best in the state. Norton is the Missouri State Grape. Norton is also called Cynthiana which is the State Grape in Arkansas.Because of its acid and tannins, Norton wine can age well. It is known for its flavors of plum, tart cherries, blackberries, and earthiness and spice.Tonight, we talk about the Ten-Year Norton Vertical Wine Tasting that we did at Stone Hill Winery. Next week we are hunting for a great Trader Joe's wine. We will try to describe the three wines we taste and help you decide which wine you need to try next. We will be tasting: 2023 Emma Reichart Dry Riesling, purchased for $5.99. Aromas of apricot and grapefruit. It is crisp and dry with notes of mineral, almonds, and herbs. This wine comes from Germany. 11.5% alcohol. 2022 Roustabout Meritage from Paso Robles. Trader Joe's had this wine for $7.99. Meritage is a Bordeaux Red Blend made up of 44% Merlot, 39% Cabernet Sauvignon, 15% Malbec, and 2% Cabernet Franc. The bottle says silky tannins. Notes of black cherries, blueberries, and cigar box. Some hints of dark chocolate and expresso. 13.6% alcohol.2022 Epicuro Nero D'Avola from Sicilia DOC. Purchased for $5.99. Aromas of blackberry, black currant, forest floor, and pepper. RWS gives it a 7.0 rating and recommends BUY.

Helen Keplinger is one of the most sought-after winemakers in Napa Valley, but she's taking a break to take us on a California road trip with her Vermillion wine. Vermillion, sourced from the high-elevation Sierra Foothills to the sea-sprayed vineyards of Santa Barbara, captures the diverse terroirs that make this state so special, and we pop a bottle with Helen to identify how each component plays a unique role. She fills us in on why one of her secret, prized grape sources is like Wagyu beef and why Paso Robles might just be the most exciting region in wine. Plus, we reveal the one “can't miss” event in Napa Valley that Helen's been attending for over a decade—and how you can get in on the action as well! 

Paso Robles, Hands On, another dog friendly winery, anaesthesiologist and interview with Jordan Collins, winemaker, Lone Madrone Winery in Paso Robles. ON THE ROAD with mrCAwine is about California's cool, aspirational lifestyle and awesome wines hosted by Chuck Cramer, a California native, living in London and is the Director of European & Asian sales & marketing, Terlato Wines. This is a wine journey covering the hottest topics in the business of California wine, chatting along the way with the people who work in wine, and make it all happen. This week's episode includes an interview with Jordan Collins, winemaker at Lone Madrone Winery. 

The Pour with Adam Montiel is Recorded Live at The Timbre LoBroStudios, thanks to Timbre Winery.On this episode of The Pour with Adam Montiel, Adam sits down with Debby Baldwin Mann, a true pioneer of Paso Robles wine country. Debby co-founded Justin Winery as well as channeled her innovative spirit into creating two standout destinations: Paso Market Walk and Coast Village Walk in Montecito.Paso Market Walk is a vibrant gathering spot on Spring Street between 19th and 20th, showcasing the very best of local flavor and craftsmanship. The market offers a thoughtfully curated mix of artisanal food vendors, boutique shops, restaurants, and locally sourced goods, all housed within a beautifully designed space that embodies the charm and spirit of Paso Robles. Both locals and visitors, as well as those in the industry, can enjoy a unique experience here - from gourmet treats and handmade products to comfortable, high-end accommodations - while savoring the region's renowned hospitality and warm sense of community.In this candid conversation, Debby reflects on her experiences navigating the early days of Paso's wine scene, the monumental sale of Justin Winery, and the personal and professional transitions (and headlines) that followed. She also opens up about the lessons she's learned from her health challenges and how those experiences have reshaped her perspective on life, community, and success. Packed with insightful stories, humor, and heartfelt wisdom, this episode celebrates the life and legacy of a woman who has profoundly shaped her community, the industry, and those around her.Find Debby Baldwin Mann online:Website: pasomarketwalk.comInstagram: @pasomarketwalk*****Tin City Distillery: Join the Private Barrel Club and craft your own custom whiskey. The Pour has its own barrel - you can too! Check it out here: tincitydistillery.com/club/private-barrel-club.Follow Adam:Instagram: @adamontheairWebsite: adammontiel.com – Find episodes, giveaways, and more.Podcasts: Up & Adam, Where Wine Takes You, and The Pour with Adam Montiel—stream wherever you get your podcasts.Pop the cork and join the conversation—this is one pour you don't want to miss!********For info on Tin City Distillery's Private Barrel Club Click Here***********The Pour is recorded, edited, produced, and hosted by Adam Montiel. Follow Adam on Instagram @AdamOnTheAir and check out his daily podcast Up + Adam as well as Where Wine Takes You. To connect with Adam, learn more, or for Spotify or other pod links, visit AdamMontiel.comAbout ‘The Pour with Adam Montiel':In 2010, Radio Host Adam Montiel combined his longtime love for broadcasting with his, then, new love for wine. He created and produced, ‘The Cork Dorks'. The show was hosted with Adam and his good friend Jeremy West. It was the first of its kind. It began focusing on central coast wineries but as the show grew, so did their ability to travel and meet other winemakers they found everywhere from Napa to Bordeaux that adopted that same Central Coast quality of people willing to share their wines, and their stories. As the area's producer's grew, soon Adam's interview's covered everything from spirits, craft beer, cider, cuisine, hospitality, and more. Fast forward to today, the spirit and enthusiasm cultivated with the award winning show, is reborn as The Pour with Adam Montiel, this time independently, and unfettered by corporate authority leaving it even more free to share the journey of making wine more approachable and fun for everyone.  Here, We Taste It. We Spill It. We Leave it All On the Table. This is ‘The Pour' with Adam Montiel.__________Sincere Thanks to those who support The Pour. Please take a moment and visit them and thank them for supporting local broadcasting, and valuing what we do here. Thank you for supporting them!Original Music, ‘Come Alive' by Dan Curcio and Moonshiner Collective Moonshiner on Spotify HEREFollow Adam on Instagram HEREPlease Rate, Review, and Subscribe to the podcast, and learn more at AdamMontiel.com

A dog friendly winery, Paso Robles, Malbec and interview with Damian Grindley, Owner & Founding winemaker of Brecon Estate in Paso Robles. ON THE ROAD with mrCAwine is about California's cool, aspirational lifestyle and awesome wines hosted by Chuck Cramer, a California native, living in London and is the Director of European & Asia sales & marketing, Terlato Wines. This is a wine journey covering the hottest topics in the business of California wine, chatting along the way with the people who work in wine, and make it all happen. This week's episode includes an interview with Damian Grindley, Brecon Estate in Paso Robles. 

Paso Robles is set to shine a spotlight on one of the most fascinating and underappreciated varietals in the wine world—Cabernet Franc. Cab Franc Masters is a two-day event happening March 16-17, 2024, dedicated entirely to this complex and elegant grape.Joining Adam today are Neeta Mitral of LXV Wines and Damian Grimley of Brecon Estate. We talk about what makes Cab Franc special, why it's gaining momentum, and what guests can expect from this first-of-its-kind celebration.If you're a Cab Franc fan—or just looking to expand your palate—this is an episode (and event) you won't want to miss!Event Details: Cab Franc Masters 2025Dates: Sunday & Monday, March 16-17, 2025Location: Paso Robles, CATickets & Info: www.CabFrancMasters.comThis event is the first of its kind and a must-attend for wine lovers looking to experience the depth and beauty of Cabernet Franc in all its forms.Featured GuestsNeeta Mitral – LXV Wines (Website)Damian Grindley – Brecon Estate (Website)Social Media Links:Cab Franc Masters – InstagramFollow LXV Wines – InstagramFollow Brecon Estate – InstagramFollow The Pour with Adam Montiel – InstagramSponsored by:Tin City Distillery: Join the Private Barrel Club and craft your own custom whiskey. The Pour has its own barrel - you can too! Check it out here: tincitydistillery.com/club/private-barrel-club.Links & Shoutouts:Presqu'ile Winery: presquilewine.comCenter of Effort: centerofeffortwine.comSolterra Strategies: solterrastrategies.comTin City Distillery Private Barrel Club: tincitydistillery.com/club/private-barrel-clubWorld of Pinot Noir: worldofpinotnoir.comFollow Adam:Instagram: @adamontheairWebsite: adammontiel.com – Find episodes, giveaways, and more.Podcasts: Up & Adam, Where Wine Takes You, and The Pour with Adam Montiel—stream wherever you get your podcasts.Pop the cork and join the conversation—this is one pour you don't want to miss!********For info on Tin City Distillery's Private Barrel Club Click Here***********The Pour is recorded, edited, produced, and hosted by Adam Montiel. Follow Adam on Instagram @AdamOnTheAir and check out his daily podcast Up + Adam as well as Where Wine Takes You. To connect with Adam, learn more, or for Spotify or other pod links, visit AdamMontiel.comAbout ‘The Pour with Adam Montiel':In 2010, Radio Host Adam Montiel combined his longtime love for broadcasting with his, then, new love for wine. He created and produced, ‘The Cork Dorks'. The show was hosted with Adam and his good friend Jeremy West. It was the first of its kind. It began focusing on central coast wineries but as the show grew, so did their ability to travel and meet other winemakers they found everywhere from Napa to Bordeaux that adopted that same Central Coast quality of people willing to share their wines, and their stories. As the area's producer's grew, soon Adam's interview's covered everything from spirits, craft beer, cider, cuisine, hospitality, and more. Fast forward to today, the spirit and enthusiasm cultivated with the award winning show, is reborn as The Pour with Adam Montiel, this time independently, and unfettered by corporate authority leaving it even more free to share the journey of making wine more approachable and fun for everyone.  Here, We Taste It. We Spill It. We Leave it All On the Table. This is ‘The Pour' with Adam Montiel.__________Sincere Thanks to those who support The Pour. Please take a moment and visit them and thank them for supporting local broadcasting, and valuing what we do here. Thank you for supporting them!Original Music, ‘Come Alive' by Dan Curcio and Moonshiner Collective Moonshiner on Spotify HEREFollow Adam on Instagram HEREPlease Rate, Review, and Subscribe to the podcast, and learn more at AdamMontiel.com

It's Monday, Let's raise a glass to the beginning of another week. It's time to unscrew, uncork or saber a bottle and let's begin Exploring the Wine Glass!  Today, we're diving deep into the world of Cabernet Franc. I had the pleasure of sitting down with Neeta Mittal, the powerhouse behind the Cab Franc Masters in Paso Robles. If you're a fellow Francophile, this is an episode you won't want to miss! We talk about our shared love for this incredible grape, how it thrives in Paso's diverse terroir, and the upcoming two-day event in March that's an absolute dream for any Cab Franc lover. So, grab a glass of your favorite Cab Franc, get comfy, and let's talk about why this variety deserves a spotlight of its own! While you are listening, it would be greatly appreciated if you could take one minute to subscribe, rate and review. It takes only a few seconds of your time but means so much to the show.  Also, please be sure to check the box for automatic downloads so that new episodes of Exploring the Wine Glass show up in your “next up feed.” The next best way to support Exploring the Wine Glass is to tell your friends. If you enjoy the podcast, your wine loving friends will too. Follow me on all the socials and finally, don't forget to head to the website, Exploring the Wine Glass.com to read the blog, and sign up for the newsletter to keep up with all the happenings.  Slainte!    Find out more about Cab Franc Masters here  Music: WINE by Kēvens Official Video Follow me on Instagram!   Follow me on Twitter! Subscribe to my YouTube channel SIGN UP FOR EXPLORING THE WINE GLASS NEWSLETTER SUBSCRIBE ON iTUNES STITCHER | iTUNES | YOUTUBE | SPOTIFY | PODBEAN | AUDIBLE | BOOMPLAY Even ask your smart speaker to play Exploring the Wine Glass GIVE US A RATING AND REVIEW Thoughts or comments? Contact Lori at exploringthewineglass@gmail.com. Please support our sponsors Dracaena Wines - Our Wines + Your Moments + Great Memories Use code 'Explore' at checkout to receive 10% off your first order GET SPECIAL OFFERS FOR DRACAENA WINES

Justin Drinking Justin@TablasCreek @JustinVineyards @DaouFamilyEstates #PasoRobles #WineLovers #podcast #radioshow #host Co hosts : Good ol Boy Justin, Made Man Maury, Made Man BobSIPS – Paso Robles Uncorked! Get ready to uncork the hidden gems of Paso Robles in this special wine episode. Join the good ol' boys as they explore the vibrant wines of this lesser-known Californian wine region. Immerse yourself in the stories behind these wines, with insights into the winemaking philosophies of these winemakers. Discover the rare varietals like Vacarese and the meticulous craftsmanship behind the Soul of Lion 2021. It's a wine journey filled with rich flavors and engaging banter. Whether you're a seasoned wine enthusiast or a curious newcomer, this episode offers a delightful exploration of Paso Robles, with wines that promise to surprise and satisfy. Raise a glass and join us for a sip-worthy adventure! We will be discussing these wines and rating them from 1-5 with 5 being the best:11:20 Tablas Creek Esprit Blanc de Tablas 2022                           4 SIPS13:48 Tablas Creek Patelin de Tablas Rose 2023                           4 SIPS19:11 Tablas Creek Vaccarese 2023                                            4 SIPS23:57 Justin Sauvignon Blanc 2023                                              3 SIPS29:02 Justin Rose 2023                                                                   4 SIPS32:29 Justin Reserve Cabernet Sauvignon 2021                           5 SIPS38:13 Justin Isosceles 2021                                                           4 SIPS43:46 DAOU Soul of a Lion 2021                                                  5 SIPSinfo@sipssudsandsmokes.com X- @sipssudssmokes IG/FB - @sipssudsandsmokes Sips, Suds, & Smokes® is produced by One Tan Hand Productions using the power of beer, whiskey, and golf. Available on Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, Spotify, Pandora, iHeart, and nearly anywhere you can find a podcast.Enjoying that cool Outro Music, it's from Woods & Whitehead – Back Roads Download your copy here:https://amzn.to/2XblorcThe easiest way to find this award winning podcast on your phone is ask Alexa, Siri or Google, “Play Podcast , Sips, Suds, & Smokes” Credits:TITLE: Maxwell Swing & FlapperjackPERFORMED BY: Texas GypsiesCOMPOSED BY: Steven R Curry (BMI)PUBLISHED BY: Alliance AudioSparx (BMI)COURTESY OF: AudioSparx TITLE: Back RoadsPERFORMED BY: Woods & WhiteheadCOMPOSED BY: Terry WhiteheadPUBLISHED BY: Terry WhiteheadCOURTESY OF: Terry WhiteheadPost production services : Pro Podcast SolutionsAdvertising sales: Contact us directlyContent hosting services: Audioport, Earshot, Radio4All, & PodBeanProducer: Made Man Bob

Step into the eerie world of Chelsea, whose childhood home in Paso Robles was a hotbed of paranormal activity. But the chills didn't stop when she moved away—these entities seem to have followed her into adulthood. As Chelsea unravels her family's history, she uncovers a dark secret: her grandfather's involvement in occult rituals might be the key to her lifelong connection with the supernatural. Join us as we explore her strange haunting experiences and dive into the generational mysteries that may have unleashed something beyond our world. blurrycreatures.com/members