VO BOSS Podcast

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dive into the essential digital toolkit for today's voiceover professionals. Their lively conversation spotlights practical solutions for safeguarding valuable audio, effortlessly showcasing your work, and leveraging the power of AI to streamline your workflow. They unveil their go-to platforms for reliable cloud backups, easy video conversion for portfolio building, and AI assistants that can help with everything from crafting professional communications to generating content ideas. By sharing their tried-and-true tech arsenal, Anne and Tom empower voice actors to work smarter, not harder, and confidently navigate the ever-evolving digital landscape of the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, if you're looking to take your podcast to the next level, my podcast consultation coaching services teach you how to sound more authentic, develop smart strategies, and market your show effectively. Let's elevate your podcast together. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started. 00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level: the BOSS level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like1 a BOSS—a VO BOSS. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.2 00:42 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS Podcast and the Real BOSS Series. I'm here, Anne Ganguzza, with my good friend, Mr. Tom Dheere. Hello, Tom Dheere, how are you today? 00:53 - Tom (Guest) I am good. Anne Ganguzza, how are you? 00:56 - Anne (Host) I am relieved. 00:58 - Tom (Guest) Relieved? Want to know why? Yes, why? 01:01 - Anne (Host) Well, I had a scare this week where I all of a sudden went to go access one of my audio files to send to my client, and it said, "No, there's no drive." And I went, "Oh my God, I lost my drive!" And that's one of those things—I don't know if you're on an Apple Mac or any kind of computer—when all of a sudden the drive doesn't show up, you're like, "Oh my God, let me unplug it, let me replug it, let me unplug it, replug it," and you wait to hear it spin up. And back in the day, when I used to work in technology, it was a thing. Like your backup plan had to be solid because you could not lose any data, and it used to be very complex where you would have RAID systems and you would have dual backup systems, and you'd pay a lot of money to have systems backing up to other things. And I'll tell you what I got. 01:45 So, paranoid, I unplugged my drive, plugged it back in. Nothing. Same thing, did it multiple times, unplugged it from the cord, I rebooted my computer. Nothing happened. But I'll tell you, I was saved by my favorite tool in the world, which is called Backblaze, which backs up all of my data onto a cloud, and I was able to restore the data that I needed to send to my client to another external drive that I have and do it within the next couple hours. It was actually a few terabytes, right, because my drive... I put everything, Tom, and I think we can talk about this—I have, since I worked in technology, I put everything that's important on an external drive, and that drive gets backed up multiple times. And that way I don't ever have to worry about like, "Oh gosh, if I need to update my..." I never put anything important on my main computer drive, always on an external drive that gets backed up. 02:36 - Tom (Guest) Because it's easy. I think this leads into an extremely important lesson that we could just start right off with. For all you BOSSES out there: do not be 100% cloud-dependent with your data, and do not be 100% external hard drive or internal hard drive-dependent with your data. But back them up, back them up. 02:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Make sure that they are backing each other up. 02:57 - Tom (Guest) What I have is I have Norton 360, which is generally... Norton is known for its antivirus software, and Norton 360 does that. But what it also does is it backs up my hard drive every single day up to one terabyte. And, like you, I have very little actual data on the hard drive of my desktop computer itself. I also use Google Drive's Google Workspace. 03:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) If you have a Gmail account or a Gmail address. 03:23 - Anne (Host) Same thing. Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:25 - Tom (Guest) Yep, you can use Dropbox as well. 03:27 You can use OneDrive, you could use Box, you could use CrashPlan, you could use Carbonite. I used to use Carbonite for a very long time, and I was very happy with it, and then I realized I had Carbonite, Box, Dropbox, OneDrive, and Google Drive, and I realized it was so redundant. So my primary cloud-based data storage is a combination of Google Drive with Google Workspace and Norton 360, and I also have an external hard drive which I will actually occasionally hook up and physically back everything up and put it away. So I've got like three—two cloud-based and one drive external hard drive-based—home base for all of my data, in case something bad happens with one or, heaven forbid, two of them. 04:17 - Anne (Host) It's been a lifesaver, I'll tell you what. So Backblaze—just my favorite. By the way, I'm an affiliate, guys. I'm going to put a link for you. What I love about Backblaze is that basically, you just set it to work and it works seamlessly in the background. It will always... it backs up every minute of the day. It backs up, and it doesn't take a lot of resources on your system. So every time you create a file, it's just going to be backing it up to the cloud, and then you just... it's really simple. You go to your account on the cloud and you restore it, and it basically just keeps the most current backup. 04:45 You can keep different versions of backups. If you have version one of a file, version two of a file, you can keep all the versions of your backups for up to a year. It just really depends, and it is super reasonable. I think I pay $99 a year. So I use that in combination with Dropbox. I have like three terabytes for Dropbox, and I keep all my student data on that, and that way I can share my drive with my clients and my students, and that is my Dropbox, which is always backed up, so I don't have to worry about that data either. So I use the combination, and I also have a Google Drive. So those are my cloud-based: Dropbox and Google, and then my Backblaze, which is my backup for all my drives that I have on my computer, and I only put important stuff on my external drives. That way if I need to update my operating system, I don't have to worry about restoring all the other data onto that main drive on my computer. 05:36 And you can... even with Backblaze, you can order, like I had, a four-terabyte drive or a five-terabyte drive. If the entire drive goes—which drives do, I mean, they have a lifespan—you can actually just order a replacement drive, and it ships out within two to three days. It's an encrypted drive that you can actually just plug in via USB, and then ultimately you have that mirrored drive so that you don't have to restore the data through the cloud, because sometimes if you do have five terabytes of data—let's say if you have video—it could take an awfully long time to restore through the online version, and so you can just order a drive, and I've done that two times. So that's one of my favorite tools, Tom. So what are some of your other favorite tools that you have to run your business? 06:18 - Tom (Guest) Like I said, I do use Google Drive regularly. If you have a Gmail account, I think you already get 15 gigs of storage space, but with Google Workspace, you get two terabytes for like $15 a month, and I also use it to synchronize my email. Actually, that's really exciting—the ability to synchronize my email in Gmail with my phone, my desktop, my laptop, and my tablet, so I can access my emails anytime I want. But other tools that I've really been enjoying lately: this is something that comes up a lot. Voice actors of all parts of their journey desperately want to get their hands on the finished product, which is, most of the time, the finished video of a voiceover that they did, most of the time commercials or explainer videos or things like that. 07:07 So I have a two-pronged system. Number one, I go to YouTube once a month. I'm on YouTube every day, who am I kidding? But I mean, for this exercise, I go to YouTube, and I have a list of all the voiceover jobs that I did in the previous quarter or previous month, and I look at all the front-facing stuff, all of the commercials and explainers, the things that would be normally exposed to the public—not like the e-learning modules and the internal corporate stuff—stuff that has been published publicly. 07:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Published publicly, exactly. 07:34 - Tom (Guest) And then what I'll do is I'll find all of them, find the ones that I can. I will save them to a playlist in YouTube, and I have a playlist for every genre of voiceover that... 07:46 - Anne (Host) I've done. Yeah, me too. 07:46 - Tom (Guest) But this is where the tool comes in. I download the YouTube video. There is a specific software that I use called Any Video Converter. We'll put the link down there. It's absolutely free. I think it's just anyvideoconverter.com. And then you download that free software, and all you do is paste the YouTube link in, and then it says, "Do you want audio only, video only, or audio and video?" You download it, and it downloads it to your computer, and then you can save it. And this is why this is really important. It's important for two reasons. Number one, a lot of us want to use professional samples of stuff that we've done to add to our demos. Yes, and we want to use it to add to our online casting site profiles, our sample lists and playlists on Voice123 and other places. But here's the other thing: YouTube videos don't necessarily stay there forever. 08:45 - Anne (Host) They're not necessarily evergreen. 08:47 - Tom (Guest) I have had multiple videos over the years where I went to go look at it, and it was gone. 08:52 Or it was linked to my website, tomdheere.com, and the video was just not there. There's just gray static, or "this video is no longer there." So what you can do is that if you keep that video by downloading it using Any Video Converter or any software of your choice, you can then upload it back to your website, right, or maybe even upload it back onto YouTube and continue to have it as part of your portfolio. 09:15 - Anne (Host) I just want to make sure that it's noted that you have permission and that it's public-facing to begin with. So make sure that it's public-facing. Sometimes, if you don't have permission from the company, it's always nice. I mean, I always, as part of my, "Thank you so much, it's been wonderful working with you," I always say, "If you have a link to the final video, I would really appreciate it. I'd love to see the final product. It was so great working with you." But a lot of times people are busy, and that doesn't happen. 09:40 And so, yeah, if it ultimately shows up on a YouTube, then ultimately it's public-facing. 09:45 And then I am assuming that it's public-facing, it's public property, and that I can take that Any Video Converter and download it. And, yeah, now you own it; you can put it back up on YouTube if you want. It's a video that's not going to disappear all of a sudden off your website if you happen to embed it. But yeah, that's a great tool, and it's wonderful to be able to show not only your demos but work that you've done, and you want that work to exist. So, yeah, that's a great. 10:08 I love that, Tom, because you actually go and actively seek it out, because sometimes I lose track of the jobs that I do, and then it's like, "Oh darn, I wish I had that job to showcase, right? Here's an example of what my voice sounds like in this particular job," or "here on this website." And I used to actually post the link or embed the YouTube link from their site onto my website, but, you're right, it disappeared from mine after a while. Sometimes people just don't keep those videos up on their YouTube, so having it for your own is a wonderful, wonderful tool, and that Any Video Converter, yeah. 10:42 - Tom (Guest) Definitely, and that task is on my monthly action plan. 10:46 - Anne (Host) It is one of the things that... 10:47 - Tom (Guest) I do every single month. It's in the tools section of my monthly action plan: "Download new YouTube videos and save to playlists." 10:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Wow. 10:55 - Tom (Guest) This also applies to Vimeo as well, so you could also look around, because there are some clients that prefer Vimeo over YouTube, which—it's a great platform. I love Vimeo, but YouTube just has so much more SEO clout. Well... 11:06 - Anne (Host) I love Vimeo because I use Vimeo. I have a Vimeo account as well as YouTube, but I have a Vimeo account because if you want to password protect, you can do that on Vimeo. So that helps me when I do my VO Peeps events, and people are requiring access to the videos. I password protect them. 11:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I'll bounce the ball back to you, Anne: what is another tool that you enjoy using? 11:27 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, there are so many. Let's see. I'm going to say I'm going to go the AI route, and I'm going to say I have a couple of AI tools that really, really help me in crafting emails to my clients that are super fast and efficient. And they help me just... First of all, I have a professional version of ChatGPT, which I think is well worth the 20 bucks a month, and I also have CopyAI, which I pay for on a yearly basis. It uses ChatGPT, but it also has different features kind of built in. So, depending on what I want to do, it has a little more marketing aspect to it, so it can create more marketing funnels for me. If I want ChatGPT, I can ask it just about anything. But again, both of them are the premium versions, and I use it for—gosh, I use it for anything. 12:09 Sometimes I'll just ask questions and I'll say, "Hey, craft an email response to my client that includes the following points," or I'll have started a particular email, and I'm like, "You know, I just don't have the time to word this professionally." So let me cut and paste it, and I'll say, "Just reword this professionally and in my voice." So you can train your little ChatGPT AI bot to have your voice in it. And so I use it constantly for crafting professional emails and basically doing a lot of web writing that I might have to do. If I want to craft my bio, I need to create a nice bulleted course list here and that sort of thing. I'll say, "Go to this webpage and tell me what are the major points, what are the summary points of this particular course that I can then utilize." So it's just training your robot, like training your dragon, is really a wonderful thing. 12:58 - Tom (Guest) Cool. Well, I also have two favorite AI tools, both of which are parallel to the ones that you just recommended. You're a paid user for ChatGPT. I am a Gemini fan myself. Gemini is the Google-powered version of OpenAI's ChatGPT. You do need to pay for it, but if you have a Google Workspace account, like I just talked about a few minutes ago, that I use to get more drive space and synchronize all of my emails and all of my devices, you also get access to Gemini. I've been using it very heavily for the past three, four months or so. And what do you use it for? What sorts of things? I use it professionally and personally. I ask it all kinds of questions, looking for statistics or data, potential voiceover leads. And what happened was, a few months ago, I'm here in New York City. I was invited by a Google Wix co-production talking about Google Gemini and then how to use Google Gemini to write blogs in Wix—not necessarily write them for you, but like to just kind of help you come up with ideas. 14:08 Spark ideas, maybe give you some outlines, and then you can put your own creative flair and writing style in it. I will give a quick AI prompt tip. Two things. Number one, always tell your AI who they are before you ask the question. So like, if you have a question about social media, you always say, "You are a social media expert." Then you ask the question. I don't pretend to understand how any of this works, but I do know that if you kind of put them in the, for lack of a better term, "frame of mind," it will give you more accurate answers. 14:43 - Anne (Host) Give me a more professional answer, give me a friendlier, give me more conversational. Yeah, you can absolutely, and... 14:50 - Tom (Guest) Oh, I refine them constantly. What's nice about Gemini is on the left side, it has a link to every single conversation that I've had, and I refer back to them regularly. The other tip is always say please and thank you. For some weird reason, they have noticed that—and this may be a little scary—that the nicer you are when you're asking questions, the better quality you're going to get. I know that's a little creepy. 15:15 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, you don't want to be angry. I mean, a lot of times people are like, "No, that's the wrong, you stupid idiot." You know what I mean. You should not talk to Alexa that way either, by the way. Just saying. 15:24 - Tom (Guest) Right, no, you don't want to do that either. 15:25 - Anne (Host) No, because you want them to treat you right. 15:57 - Tom (Guest) I believe there are different tiers, like there are with a lot of these programs. I just started my affiliate partnership with them, so I'm exploring all the wonderful things that it can do, but Warmy.io—that's my other favorite AI tool. Wow. 16:07 - Anne (Host) I've got one more. 16:08 - Tom (Guest) I've got one more that I use, and that's Podium. For a long time... 16:11 - Anne (Host) I've used Podium for a good year or two now, I think. Podium takes my VO BOSS podcasts and it crafts out my notes, it crafts out my show notes, it crafts out takeaways, and I found that that works the best. I mean, I can put anything into ChatGPT, but the cool thing about Podium is I can feed it an MP3. So I can take a final MP3 of my episode and I can say, "Craft out 10 takeaways from this." And ultimately I do have to go through everything. I think it's always advisable, no matter what. 16:39 If you're working with AI, you always have to go through it. You always need the human touch, right? You need to like... sometimes it'll come up with some weird things, but for the most part, it does the best summaries, and it's the only one that I have that will take an MP3 or a video and transcribe it, and then it can create a blog out of it as well, which is super powerful, because once you can get from there to the blog, then you can tweak the blog. So it really has done a lot to help me. And so that's Podium, and yes, I'm an affiliate of Podium too. 17:08 So, guys, BOSSES out there, if you find tools that you like, you can always create a little affiliate membership with that, because, I mean, even if it's a few cents a month, it's a few cents a month, and I have people who follow me that I don't steer them wrong. I'm not going to be an affiliate of a product that I don't love and that I wouldn't recommend. And so that's the way I really feel that I've gotten people who follow me that trust my recommendations and these tools that Tom and I love. I mean, we recommend them wholeheartedly. It's not something because affiliate memberships don't, I don't think, make you enough money to... you know. I mean, I'm not just going to sign up for everything and become an affiliate. 17:42 It's only going to be the stuff that I absolutely love and the stuff that I'm going to talk about. And I actually got a little key fob the other day so that people can scan the key fob, and I can become an affiliate of that, so that they can scan the key fob and go get all my contact information, go to every website that I have, and it's really a lot of fun, and I'll be testing that out at VO Atlanta, so that's going to be really cool too. So all these tools that Tom and I are talking about are stuff that we've tested and stuff that we recommend. And so, BOSSES, that's another part of your income journey really, is thinking about products you love and maybe thinking about becoming affiliates of them. Any other tools, Tom, and I've got one more that I'm going to talk about that I love. 18:21 - Tom (Guest) It's funny because I wanted to... 18:23 - Anne (Host) It might be the same one. 18:23 - Tom (Guest) Well, I wanted to say that we are recording this right now using a fabulous tool called Riverside. Yes, and I've been guest hosting on the VO BOSS for a couple of years now, and she's been using Riverside, and I think it's a fantastic program. The one that I use when I have guests, when I am doing recorded video chats, is I use StreamYard. 18:43 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) They're both very similar. 18:44 - Tom (Guest) They have their own sets of bells and whistles. Both of them are fantastic. So if you're looking to start a podcast or if you just want to record conversations, Riverside or StreamYard—both of them are fantastic. 18:55 - Anne (Host) And here's one that I think we both have in common, Tom, I know that you use it, and it is... it is my graphic wonder, Canva. 19:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Ah, Canva! I love Canva. 19:04 - Anne (Host) Canva changed the game, I'll tell you what. And I'm not saying that I'm a graphic artist, because nothing would ever replace my web designer, because my web designer is an amazing graphic artist. There's something about being able to see and visualize graphics and where they go and putting them together and making them look good. But if you're just a beginner and you need to do a few social media graphics, you need to do certain things like remove a background. You cannot go wrong with Canva. I've been using Canva for years. It is an absolute favorite tool of mine. 19:33 - Tom (Guest) I use it constantly. I mean, for those of you who have watched any of my how-to videos or have been in a workshop with me where I'm doing a presentation, I use Canva, I'm pretty sure. 19:43 - Anne (Host) Anne, you also have the... 19:44 - Anne (Host) Canva Pro. You have the paid version, Canva Pro. I do. 19:48 - Tom (Guest) So do I. I mean, it's got so many functions. You'd be shocked at the amount of things that it can make. I mean, I primarily use it for my how-to videos and presentations, but I also use it for making thumbnails for my YouTube videos. 20:01 - Anne (Host) Social media graphics. 20:03 - Tom (Guest) Yep, it's got a great library of content, and you can upload all of your content as well. 20:07 - Anne (Host) And also, I'm going to give myself one other plug. 20:09 - Tom (Guest) I'm going to give myself one other plug. There are a bunch of apps that you can have called up on the left side of your Canva. There is one which is to add an AI voice to your presentations, and one of my AI voices is one of those voices. So, yes, you could actually click on that. You could have me voicing your content. 20:27 - Anne (Host) Tom, I'm going to add you to my next presentation. I'm going to add Tom Dheere voice to my next presentation. But that's awesome. I love Canva and the Canva Pro. And remember, Tom, back in the day when you were creating, let's say, a website or a social media graphic and you would subscribe to these places where you could buy the rights to the graphics? Because you need to be legal about these things. You can't just be stealing graphics and downloading graphics. Canva has a great—and the Canva Pro version has a great—amount of graphics that you can use that are built within it and licensed. So you don't have to pay for another tool to get your graphics. So you can get professional graphics. If you need, like a studio graphic to put in the background of one of your social media posts, you can download it from Canva, and the license is there, and you're clear. 21:13 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, what's very interesting is that you can just run searches in their library to find graphics and stuff like that. And then, if you have the Canva Pro account—I don't know if you've noticed this, Anne—is when you click on stuff and you use it, it'll say, "You just saved this amount of money." 21:27 - Anne (Host) Oh, yeah, right. 21:28 - Tom (Guest) Right, because if you didn't have a Canva Pro account, you would have had to pay à la carte for all of these graphics, but as part of the Canva annual fee, you can get access to all of those graphics for free, and you are using them legally and lawfully. 21:40 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it. I love it. I love knowing that I'm using them legally and lawfully, because that used to be a worry for me. I mean, I used to be like, "Oh my God," and each graphic I would pay. Even sometimes I'd go to those websites. I think I had an Envato Elements account that, you know, I could go and get the graphics and use those for my social media. And it's just nice because it's built into Canva already, and everything that you use these days has AI built into it. 22:04 Guys, there's really not much that I think you're going to be using tool-wise that isn't going to have some sort of AI built into it. So, again, it's one of those things where I know we need to be careful of it for our voices, and we need to make sure that we're getting compensated. Make sure that any tool that you're using that has AI built into it, that you're within the confines of your own ethical thoughts and what you think is right and fair compensation. And, Tom, you're getting paid for that voice that you have in the middle of Canva, so that's good. And so tools that are ethically sourced, right, that are using AI, I think it's just going to be so embedded into a lot of our tools these days that we're not even going to notice anymore, and it's going to be like... you know, I always tell people with Voice over IP, back in the day I used to install Voice over IP phone systems, and people were like, "Oh no, it'll never work." 22:52 But honestly, that's all we use these days. There's not one phone call you make that isn't going over an internet or a network, a data line, and there are no more POTS lines that are installed. Back in the day, they were Plain Old Telephone POTS lines, P-O-T-S. And so nowadays, all of your communication goes over data lines, and that is Voice over IP. Really, same thing with AI. It's going to be embedded in just about everything that we do. So just be careful and be thoughtful. But these tools are something that I can't live without now. I mean, really. 23:23 - Tom (Guest) Me too. I don't know where I'd be without Canva and all the tools we just talked about today. 23:27 - Anne (Host) I don't know where I would be without my Alexa telling me how many ounces are in a tablespoon or how many... you know, when I need to do some simple conversion. I mean, we're talking like everyday life. So yeah, these are just some of our favorite tools. Tom, I'd love to do another episode in a few months from now to see if we've come up with any other favorite tools. 23:44 But I love sharing tech, geeky gadgets, because you're kind of a tech girl. I think we've come up with a really great list, and, guys, we'll list all of that in the show notes for you today. And thank you so much, Tom, for yet another wonderful, enlightening episode. 23:59 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, always glad to be here. 24:01 - Anne (Host) Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL, which I use every single day, by the way, guys. IPDTL, I use for all of my student communications. I love it. It's wonderful, people can record, it's super easy, and you can find out more at IPDTL.com. Guys, have an amazing week, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 24:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO BOSS with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies, and new ways to rock your business like a3 BOSS. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via4 IPDTL.

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and George the Tech unveil a powerful collaboration designed to equip voiceover professionals with essential technical prowess. Their discussion highlights the evolution of VO BOSS to include comprehensive tech support, recognizing that pristine audio and a smoothly running studio are fundamental pillars of your voiceover business success. They introduce the new VIP + Tech membership tiers, which offer direct access to George's expertise through monthly meetups, personalized sound checks, and an innovative AI-powered knowledge base, the "George the Tech Bot." By democratizing access to top-tier technical guidance, Anne and George empower voice actors to overcome studio hurdles, optimize their sound, and ultimately elevate their professional presence, ensuring they can confidently navigate the technical landscape of the voiceover industry.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VOBOSS here. 00:06 - George (Guest) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VOBOSS VIP membership, now with even more benefits. 00:13 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. Enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself. 00:27 - George (Guest) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best: voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you. 00:35 - Anne (Host) Join us, guys, at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit VOBOSS.com/VIP-membership to sign up today. 00:46 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent1 today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now2 let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:10 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited today to have one of my favorite human beings on the planet here with me, and that is George the Tech, George Whittam. George, thank you so much for being with us today. 01:23 - George (Guest) Oh, it's great to be here. It must be the East Coast vibes or something, you know. We're from the same sort of corner of the country. 01:30 - Anne (Host) I think so. I think so. Gosh, bosses, if you are not familiar with George, you should be, number one. I'm so excited to talk to George today because we have come together in a collaborative effort, so to speak, and we're excited to kind of talk about that and talk about how you can boss up your tech and your audio in your studio and in your business. So, for those people that don't know George, gosh, since 2005, George has dedicated, and in George's bio it says that you've dedicated your career to serving the technical needs of voice actors, podcasters, and recording studio owners. 02:08 Guys, actually, George has dedicated probably his life, not just his career. I mean, since I've been in voiceover, George has helped me umpteen billion times, and he has been the audio engineer technician to the stars, to all of my voiceover heroes. And literally, if you've got a tech issue, George can solve it. And so I'm just excited that he's here to talk to us about things that we can do to boss up our studios and boss up our audio. And in 2017, you launched georgethetech.com, which expanded your business like a boss, from just yourself to an entire team of people which can assist anybody with training, studio design, audio processing, stacks—anything you can think about it. You're a '97 graduate from Virginia Tech, woo-hoo, East Coast, with a bachelor's degree in music and audio technology and a minor in communications, and that's pretty darn awesome, because not only are you a geek, but you can talk to people about it. 03:15 - George (Guest) I can communicate, that's right, that's right. 03:18 - Anne (Host) And gosh, if you haven't ever heard of... well, it was E-Webs and then it was VOBS, the voiceover body shop, George and Dan Leonard. For 13 years now, I've had a podcast for gosh, going on nine now, but 13 years they ran their podcast and video. Actually, what did we call it back then? 03:39 - George (Guest) It was a podcast, but it was a vlog, podcast, live stream, live stream. Yeah, it was all of it. 03:45 - Anne (Host) But all of that amazing content is still on YouTube. And now you are the co-host and producer of the Pro Audio Suite, which is wherever your favorite podcasts are located, right next to VO Boss. So after that long-winded introduction, George, I am so glad to have you. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. 04:10 - George (Guest) Absolutely, and believe it or don't, that was definitely the abridged version. There are very, very long-winded versions of that that I've described on many podcasts if you want to hear more about all of the background. 04:24 - Anne (Host) But yeah, it's just so much. 04:26 - George (Guest) I mean, yeah, you're my people. Voice actors are my people. I love working with creative talent, and I have found that, through a test that I took not so long ago, that I'm exactly split left and right brain. 04:37 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I'm right down the center. That's why we get along, I'm quite sure, because I feel that I'm left and right brain too, 50-50. 04:44 - George (Guest) Yeah, yeah, so there's this ability to balance those two worlds, and you know, we brand ourselves as performer-friendly techs because we feel we get actors and performers and that we're not here to talk directly to tech engineers. We have helped engineers solve problems, but that's not our main tribe. Our main tribe are creatives, actors, podcasters—well, creators, people that have to deal with technology to do what they do, and we just enjoy working with folks like that. You are our people. 05:18 - Anne (Host) Well, I like being your people. So, George, let's talk a little bit about your business right now, George the Tech, and what it is that you do. And I mean, obviously you serve the voice acting community, but you also serve anybody that has an audio need or a tech need. Tell us a little bit about your business. 05:38 - George (Guest) Yeah, George the Tech is framed around supporting voice actors, and now we've added into that tribe. We've brought in the tent to now really include content creators and podcasters, because we've been dealing with more and more podcast-specific studios. But how we do that is in many different ways, from one-on-one consulting time with me, which is really kind of like—I wouldn't say the first place to start, because it's the most expensive to work with me one-on-one, but because it's going to be always the most expensive to work with the CEO—we have a tremendous number of services at much more friendly price points, down to the most popular and, I would say, best value bang for your buck service, which is called a soundcheck. And so soundchecks are where we listen to the audio. Oh, really, me? I'm still hoarding all the soundchecks. 06:29 I don't let anybody else do the soundchecks. I personally listen to every sample that comes in and I give notes. I'll look at your pictures of your studio. I'll even look at a video of how your room is set up. I want to see you at your microphone. I want a selfie of you at the mic so I know exactly what you're doing with your mic, and I evaluate all of that stuff with you. There we go. Selfies! Need a selfie on the mic, it's really important. Selfie on the mic. 06:53 And I don't mean a selfie like cheesing at the camera like this. I mean, I want you to be on mic and I want you to send me a picture of you at the mic in the position you read your scripts. It's so critical, and I'll look at all that. I'll listen to the audio, and I'll even listen to your processed audio if you do that in the production workflow as well. I'll take all of that and give back my notes about how you're doing and what could be improved, and if everything's great, I'll tell you everything's great, and all that under one price. Great, I'll tell you everything is great, and all that under one price. So that is now something that our members that we're going to talk about are going to get access to, among many other things. So we provide sound checks, and then from there we have more technical services like processing presets. So when you're doing an audition and you want that audio to sound a little more polished, it's the perfect nail polish, it's the French tip, it's just the right smoky eyes. 07:48 - Anne (Host) Now you're talking my language there, George, I love it. Oh my gosh, I must have it now. 07:56 - George (Guest) It's having just the right touch of all those things for the kind of work that you're doing. That's appropriate for the kind of work you're doing. I like to say you don't want to show up in theater makeup for your first date unless you're dating another theater actor. 08:10 But otherwise, you want to show up appropriately, and so these processing settings are very much custom to your voice. They're not cookie cutter, they're not templates. They become a template you can use, but of those templates to your voice, the sound of your room and your studio, and the style and genre of voiceover that you're actually working. So the kind of processing I'll do in an audiobook is going to be very different from the processing I'm going to do on a commercial. So that's what the processing presets are all about. 08:44 - Anne (Host) I love that. I'm going to add to your story here. So back in, I'm going to say 2010, maybe it was, maybe it was 2009. George, my father had built me a studio. I had moved to the West Coast and my father had built me a studio, and at the time we didn't really know anything about what was required in building a good sound studio. So we did what we could and it was passable. But I needed to upgrade and I needed it to sound better, and so I found George, and George paid a visit to me back in Irvine, California, and really helped me to level up my studio with a lot of things. And I ended up after your assessment, and we took your advice and we put everything together, literally. I had engineers that were like, they were like, "Oh my God, your studio sound is just amazing," and I had so many compliments on that studio, which basically was my father's studio. But then it was blessed by George and enhanced by George, it was juiced. 09:47 - George (Guest) It was juiced. 09:48 - Anne (Host) With, like you did, the French tip. So it's like we added acoustic panels, we added a bunch of things. We had, I remember, the studio clouds, and so all those things made my sound so good that I for years after that would have people complimenting me, asking me if I had like a studio brick studio or—because this was before—asking me if I had like a Studio Bricks studio or because this was before. 10:07 - George (Guest) Some fancy brand name. 10:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, this was actually before those were even a thing. 10:12 And not only did you help me with my physical studio, but you helped me with stacks, and I remember I think I wrote you a testimonial back in the day, like you saved me like 50% of my editing time just by those stacks that you created for me, because I was able to take those and process my audio that I was sending to my clients and literally half of my work was done for me already, like a little bit of EQ, some compression, getting rid of some of the breaths, and that was back in 2010. 10:41 And so literally, George, I still have—like, I have a new studio and I got one more set from you, but literally I used those for years. I was in the same studio, had the same mic, and honestly, like they just worked amazingly well for years. And so they're very, very valuable, those sound checks and the stacks that you created and any sort of help. And it amazed me because, even though you came to see me in Irvine, when I then moved and then created a new studio, you could do everything remotely. I mean, what you can do remotely is really wonderful, like you can listen to somebody's audio and then you can make recommendations based on that. And you said you want selfies of "where's your mic, what does your studio look like," and so, based upon all that, you can actually just do consulting from remote. 11:28 You don't have to actually be on site, although you could be if it was local, right? And I guess, if the client wanted you to just come and do a full-scale like build of studios... yeah, once in a while we do that. 11:39 - George (Guest) Yeah, once in a while it happens. 11:40 - Anne (Host) So I mean, I firsthand have had George for the longest time helping me with my audio, and also back in the day, and this goes into what we're going to be collaborating with. When I started VOPeeps, bosses, I don't know if you've heard of VOPeeps—hopefully you have—but I've run VOPeeps since 2010. And in 2010, I created a networking group that was physical, like people came to my house. 12:03 - George (Guest) Can you imagine? 12:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, people came to my house for meetups, for meetups, and ultimately first it was just a bunch of voiceover actors and, you know, it was a get-together and we kind of like—we either had a little potluck and then it turned into something a little more extravagant where my husband would start making food and kind of catered it for us, and ultimately it was like-minded people getting together. And then I decided that I wanted to branch out and make it even bigger, and so I started inviting all my heroes, all my VO heroes, and I would interview them in my living room. I would interview mine in the living room, and ultimately people would come to the house and it would be a really cool local networking meetup. 12:44 - George (Guest) I remember helping to figure out some of the tech and stuff to make that work. It was quite an adventure. 12:50 - Anne (Host) I started streaming back in... 12:52 I want to say 2010 for sure, when streaming technology was just beginning, and I had had some experience working in technology from my previous job, and so I first started streaming those meetups live on the internet from my laptop computer on my coffee table with a blue snowball microphone and a little, I think it was a Logitech webcam. But the cool thing was is that I now went from a local meetup to a global meetup. And then, as we grew and I did these gosh, once a month for almost six years, and as we grew, I said, "Who's the person that can help me to really make this stand out and have great audio and stream my networking meetups over the internet?" Well, who better than George? So I hired George to come stream my meetups on the internet and take care of all the video recording and the audio. And it was great because you came with all your equipment and I had equipment. You helped set it up, and gosh, we had a good time, didn't we? We did. 14:00 - George (Guest) We did. It was such great memories. 14:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, they grew and grew, and so that's pretty much my VO peeps. I have lots of great memories of it being physically in my house, and I think in 2017—was it 2016 or 2017—was when, finally, once a month, it became a lot because they grew. I had up to 55 people in my home that my husband was making themed meals. It was packed. 14:23 - George (Guest) It was sold out all the time. Themed drinks. 14:25 - Anne (Host) We started selling tickets to it, and gosh, we would definitely stream it live. We would have Zoom. We would have people working out via Zoom, and so we would actually have them piped in, piped in. We have Zoom piped in to my TV. 14:40 - George (Guest) It was sophisticated, it really was back in the day. I mean, you know, it was the closest to like having hybrid training where you've got people in the room and you've got people online, all at the same time. Yeah, it was very, very ahead of its time. 14:53 - Anne (Host) All across the globe. And so George was that tech geek that was there to like, put it together and help me. And I'd be like, "I want to do this." And George would be like, "Okay, let's—we can do this, we can do this." And so if you guys need outside of just audio—I mean George, the tech, right—any kind of tech, and I know bosses, as

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble tackle the often-overlooked financial realities of building a successful voiceover career. Their candid conversation reveals that achieving "overnight success" is typically the result of years of dedicated work and strategic sacrifices. They emphasize that time is a crucial financial asset and discuss the importance of making deliberate choices about where to invest it, alongside monetary resources. Anne and Danielle share personal experiences of delaying immediate wants to prioritize long-term business growth, highlighting the need for patience and a willingness to explore various income streams, even those outside one's primary passion. Ultimately, they empower voiceover professionals to take control of their financial journey by making informed sacrifices and defining their own path to sustainable success in the voiceover industry. 00:02 - Speaker 1 (Caller) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So thank you.  00:46 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anganguzza.com to shop. 01:31 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza of.  01:45 VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 01:47 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to be back with special guest co-host Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, glad to be back, Danielle, it's been a while.  02:03 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, it has.  02:04 - Anne (Host) And you've been traveling.  02:05 - Danielle (Guest) I have. I have been traveling. Me too, I just got back from the JMC Euro Retreat in Dublin, which was amazing. I went a couple days early to go shopping and had a really great time Speaking of shopping, I really like your shirt.  02:22 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with your shirt. Oh my gosh, Well, thank you. I really really resonated with the shirt. I also happen to be traveling in Europe and happen to go back to Amsterdam, which I absolutely love that town, and I saw this in the store no sacrifice, no success and it just had all these really positive, like motivating messages on it and I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it, and so I bought it and I wanted to wear it it.  02:44 And I said, wow, I just really resonate with that and I must have it. And so I bought it and I wanted to wear it today, and I think there's a message for all of us bosses. No sacrifice no success. Let's talk about sacrificing as it relates to the Money Talk series and financials.  03:00 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, no, that's a huge part of financial success is sacrificing, sacrificing for your business, sacrificing the short term for your financial goals that are probably long term. That's a huge part of it. And I think that on the other side of that sacrifice, as your shirt says there is some level of success, because you need to be able to delay gratification sometimes to be able to get to success in what you're hoping to achieve in life.  03:27 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's an interesting point that you bring up delaying gratification. You're absolutely right like I want this and I want it now because I feel like it's that kind of a I don't know. I feel like we're in that kind of culture these days where things are coming at us fast and we want things fast and a lot of times success does not come fast and so we need to kind of step it through. I was actually talking to one of my students the other day about like the steps I took to ultimately achieve my overnight success which, as I've said before on the podcast, took how many years.  03:59 I mean it took close to 10 years for that quote unquote overnight success.  04:05 But it took a lot of sacrifices, and not just financial, I mean. I know that this is the money talks, but financial can also mean your time, because your time is in essence money, especially when you're talking about your business.  04:17 - Danielle (Guest) Oh for sure, when you're talking about your business, there's parts of it that you just need to sort of stair step up.  04:23 So, you're probably front loading a lot of the education in the very beginning and that's a lot of time and it could be a lot of money, but it's mostly time intensive. And then from there then you can kind of take what you've been learning in that education phase and then implement it. But if you want to go from new to pro and you want it to happen quickly, if you try to go for like speed, you're going to be missing some things along the way. So the sacrifice is probably going to be sacrificing your time, it's probably going to be sacrificing your money and it's going to be making some difficult decisions. I mean, even with our business.  05:01 When I first started, I wanted a really expensive booth. I wanted the booth that I saw everybody else had on Zoom, and at that time I did not have that booth money. I just didn't. My business was not bringing in that much income and instead of just going after what it is that I wanted immediately, I chose to stair-step it and I chose to sacrifice what I wanted at that moment for the greater good of spending the money on coaching and spending the money on demos and things like that. And through that, for me success has come and I can afford that booth at some point. But now my goals have changed and the booth is not really the main thing that I'm wanting now. I'm wanting more education, maybe buying different mics or computers or peripherals to bring into the booth. So once you delay that, then you can kind of give yourself the time to recalibrate and readjust in your business.  06:00 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that you talked about like you're evolving, like because it does you stair-step it, but then your goals change and so even myself, I mean it's always, I think, an ever-growing, especially if you want to grow your business. Because I find myself I'm looking to diversify and to get into other things. As you know, everybody knows, I'm like a serial entrepreneur, but I like getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, getting into other aspects of the voiceover business or other genres, and so I've been actually spending a lot of time of which I don't have a ton studying and educating myself and taking classes.  06:31 And it was funny because, like last weekend, I literally I wasn't recording a VO Boss episode which is really odd for me because typically I do that on Saturdays but I found myself spending the entire day learning a new software so that I could see what were the capabilities, how could I implement this in the next step of growing my business. And that required me to sacrifice my entire Saturday and, of course, my happy hour and everybody's like you work so much. But I'm like, honestly, I really believe that doing the work now and getting the education and doing it during the times when I have available, I think it's going to and then commit to what they're going to do to get to those goals and figure out what sacrifices they're willing to make to get to those goals.  07:33 - Danielle (Guest) That's kind of the part of building and growing your business and scaling the business is that you're probably going to be making a lot of turns along the way, and are you okay with that and are you okay with the sacrifices that you're going to need to make in order to achieve those goals? So for you last week it was a sacrifice of time, but that time sacrifice is going to reap huge dividends later on when you know how to use that software. So really was the time sacrifice like that much of a sacrifice for you, or?  08:02 - Anne (Host) Is it something that was?  08:02 - Danielle (Guest) Really just an investment into your future.  08:05 - Anne (Host) And, interestingly enough, it was an investment into software, which I don't anticipate doing myself. I was looking into a new video editing software so I can create more content to get out right, so that I can again, like, get my brand out there. And so will I ultimately be spending all my time creating or editing videos? No, ultimately I'm going to be hiring somebody to direct them, but I want to know enough about this software to be able to intelligently direct them. And I think also, it's something to mention that, like you spoke about in the very beginning, we have to take sacrifices and maybe not get everything that we want immediately. Like our ultimate goal, I think, in voiceover is let's do something that brings us joy and let's make money at that. And ultimately, I think, along the way of achieving that goal, you might have to do things that may not bring you joy but will bring you income while you are trying to achieve that growth.  08:59 So I know for a fact when I was getting into voiceover and I went full time and I think I think I really speak to the people who are like they're part-time, maybe considering full-time, or they're part-time, considering dedicating more time to it that maybe they don't have and they've got a full-time job and they really hate their full-time job and they don't ever want to do anything like it again.  09:19 Well, I'll tell you what those skills are, what you have in order to ultimately, right, possibly, bring income in on a steady basis. So there might be an interim time where you might have to do consulting in something that you're really good at right. That can maybe help people so that you can bring in enough money to continually like reinvest that money into the growth of your career. And so I wanted to just say it may not be immediate gratification, like the society I think is these days, like I know myself, like I want it right away. I'm impatient, but I do believe that those steps to success and financially and when we talk financially we talk investing your money, having the money to invest as well as your time, which ends up turning into being money for you- oh, for sure, I always think that you need to follow the dollars and do whatever you can to get to your next dollar in business.  10:14 - Danielle (Guest) And if that is education, then follow that. If that is consulting, so that you can have additional money coming in, so that you can use that to channel into your business, then do it. Figure out how you can bring in resources and revenue so that you can use that to then grow your business. And I've said it before, I'll say it again it is totally okay to have your side hustle be what can fund your main hustle until it's time Like that's totally, totally fine, because there's no glory in being a starving artist.  10:52 I really don't think that that's the way that is going to be a long-term measurement of success for you to sort of take away from your current in the hopes of a possibility of a future when you could be doing things along the way to help like infuse capital into your life and your business to help keep you going for longer.  11:12 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I mean, when you've got a family that might depend on that income, right, so it becomes more than just I mean really depends on where you're at in your life and who's depending on income coming in to pay a mortgage or to support a family. And so in reality, I'm always when my students are asking me should I go full-time into voiceover and they have a family and children, I'm like, well, you've got to really think about this because you need to be able to secure steady income coming in to be able to support, and it's wonderful and I get it. I mean, I think we all get to this point, or a lot of us get to this point, when we've been in a corporate job for a long time and we just it becomes toxic, we hate it and we're like we just want to do what we love full time.  11:55 Well, that may not be achievable within a day, obviously, or even a week, or even a year, because, as I mentioned before, it took me a good oh, I'm going to say maybe eight years before I really got a return on my investment when I went full-time. And so make sure you have that financial cushion to be able to support whatever it is that you need to support yourself, other family members, and it doesn't matter if you're an Uber driver or maybe you're taking the skills that you have during your day job and creating a side hustle business out of that in order to make the extra income. And I always try to say, well, let's make my side hustle. Something I love to do Doesn't necessarily have to be voiceover, and so I love podcasting, so I'm looking to expand my podcasting, consulting that kind of a thing. So how can I do that effectively? Right, how can I get the message out? And, gosh Danielle, after I figure out, like, how I want to grow, guess what comes next? I've got to market myself.  12:53 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and there's probably going to be more sacrifice in order to get to where you're going and also the sacrifice is looking at what is and figuring out what is or isn't working. So you're looking at your business, the landscape of your business now, and voiceover is working. The other things that you're doing are working, the podcasting is working, and so you're thinking, all right, well, all of these things are working, what else can I do and how else can I build it? And that's great. But also, if something's not working, then you really should look at that and say, all right, well, do I need to keep going down this path? That isn't working.  13:30 Maybe it is keeping a day job that you don't love and don't feel fulfilled with, but maybe you still need to be bringing in an income because you've got people to support and yourself to support.  13:40 Maybe it's just finding a different job that can help bring in income while you're working toward growing your voiceover business. Maybe there are certain genres that you really like, but you're not making a lot of money in and so maybe it's looking at all right, I do enjoy this particular genre, but I'm making a ton more money in a different genre. Let me keep cultivating that, but have the passion working in this genre that I love. That maybe isn't paying as much. Those kinds of hard questions are really the sacrifices I think that we're talking about here, not necessarily just financial, but understanding that to get to the level of success that you're wanting to get, whatever your measure of success is looking at the decisions that need to be made and making the hard choices and making those sacrifices, be it financial or otherwise, to then get you to where you're trying to go in your version of success.  14:35 - Anne (Host) I love how you brought up the different genres too, because it's something else to look at. When you're doing a genre, there's so many people that want to do, let's say, character voices or animation or promo, and it's something to be said that, while you're working toward that goal right, you can also financially invest yourself and your time into other genres that can be bringing you money in. While that happens and of course, that happens to be one of my specialties happens to be the corporate market, and I'm always trying to explain to people that it may not be the most glamorous and it may not be the one that brings you the most joy. However, when you talk about market share, you've literally got so many opportunities for corporate narration compared to maybe, let's say, animation, because there's only so many animated shows out there. However, I upped my number, I've now researched and my number is now 33.2 million registered companies.  15:28 It used to be 30.4. Now it's 33.2 million companies that are registered with the SBA in the United States, and so that's just a lot of opportunities, a lot of potential opportunities, because you've got those companies that probably have a website and they probably have a YouTube channel and they need a voice at one point or another to be able to talk about those products and services.  15:48 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, that's a really great point, because there's part of this industry that can be purely just economics. It can just purely be about what pays the bills. And then there's other parts of it as actors, but figuring out what it is that you can do that pays the bills and also fills your soul. And it may not be the same thing, but how can you put your time and your energy and your efforts into creating as much money and fulfillment as possible in your day, in your life, in your business?  16:31 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And it's so funny because I'm always like with corporate narration, people just think it's so boring and a lot of people just think it's so boring and I'm like, wow, I completely don't think that, because to me it's just challenging. It's challenging to be able to find the story in some of the corporate copy. It's not that it's necessarily to me boring, but I love the challenge. As an artist, I love the challenge of where is the story here and how can I tell it in the most interesting way. And also, just again, looking at the absolute size of the market that is out there and also understanding and keeping my eye on all sorts of other things happening in the industry. And so, while I have my eye on that, making sure that if I love being an entrepreneur and I love being a boss, how am I going to continue to bring in money when, let's say, maybe times are slow in the industry, Like there are also slow points in the marketplace Right now? Certain genres I think are busier than ever, like political.  17:33 And of course anybody that's doing commercials for the holidays, right? I mean, they've been busy. But maybe during the holidays there are certain other genres that aren't as busy, right? Maybe corporate narration isn't quite as busy, maybe e-learning is not quite as busy during that time. But understanding the fluctuations in the market and when those happen, for you I have the genre I always want to do character work, and so I'm continually working towards that. But to supplement my financial income, I'm going to do some corporate or I'm going to do some e-learning, or I'm going to do some telephony, whatever that is. And then understanding where the fluctuations are in the marketplace, and so if there is just no work coming in, then invest your time in figuring out how you're going to grow that business. And again, which translates to your time is money.  18:18 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, and that is the measure of entrepreneurship, that is the measure of being the VO boss. That's what it means to look at. Okay, what's going on in the industry, what's going on with the things that I do well or genres that I would like to do well in, and how can I maneuver myself to be able to take advantage of all of it? Maybe not at the same time, but be able to move laterally into and out of genres when they're at their high points, or maybe moving out of something if there's a strike, for example. You know that's happening right now. Or figuring out, like, what's going on in the market and how you can maneuver your business to be the best positioned that it possibly can be. Like that's the name of the game. It's not just about what you do and how you show up in front of your mic. It's really about figuring out how you can position your business to win, no matter what the circumstances are as much as they say.  19:17 - Anne (Host) This is not a competitive industry, because every voice is unique. In reality, I'm competing against myself so that I can continually progress forward and win. I love it that you said win, because, danielle, I'm not competitive at all, right Me either.  19:32 - Danielle (Guest) I'm not competitive at all.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Not at all, but yeah, but really yeah, how can you win? How can you win? And, like you were mentioning earlier, what is your definition of success? Because there are some people that financial is not necessarily the definition of success and I know that we're going to actually have an episode coming up on like determining what is your hourly rate, like what is your hourly worth? Right In trying to determine what's working and what's not. How are you determining? Okay, I'm spending an hour learning this and what is that time worth? Versus if I get a commercial, I can make this amount of money. How does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate into my hourly rate? If I do a corporate narration and I get paid once, how does that translate? So you can kind of decide how you can move forward in your business and what you should work on, maybe what you should focus on or what goals you can set for the next level.  20:24 - Danielle (Guest) For sure I love that.  20:25 I think, then, that also brings a lot of ability to the individual voice actor to be the person who is choosing what winning and success looks like, and it's got nothing to do with what you're seeing in these Facebook groups or how other people are running their business.  20:40 It's got everything to do with what you have chosen, what you've decided, and it gives you something to do. I feel like sometimes it feels like so many things are out of your control. When it comes to running a business, when it comes to being a VO boss, it really is like, okay, well, I did this audition, did someone choose it or not? Have I been chosen? Are all these people, these gatekeepers out there? Is it working in my favor or not? But when you have something that you personally can do and you can take ownership of how you are running your business, it's empowering and really what you were just talking about is the individual business owner and entrepreneur and VO boss being able to empower themselves and choose what is your definition of success and what can you do to make sure that you get there. And then it's got nothing to do with anyone else choosing you or not choosing you. It's got everything to do with what you've done to make yourself the most successful that you can possibly be.  21:38 - Anne (Host) I love that. I feel like that could be a completely separate episode too, talking about what is it that you own, right? What is it that you own? There are things that we don't control, like do we get picked, do I get feedback? And that's the stuff I think a lot of voice actors get preoccupied with, like oh okay, so why am I not getting picked? Or I audition, but I never hear back, and so they spend all their time worrying about that.  22:02 But I think what you said is just absolutely on point, like what is it that you can do to control right? That you take control of what it is that you can control and that's going to be what moves you forward and that's what's going to keep you, I'm going to say, out of the mindset of self-sabotage or imposter syndrome. And so I can't control whether somebody picks me or not necessarily for my audition, because there are so many elements that aren't in my control. But I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control my performance. I can control how good I am right. I can control getting coaching if I need more. I can control marketing in my business, right. I can control researching what's happening and what trends are happening now. So those are things I can do.  22:44 - Danielle (Guest) You can control your audio quality. You can control how much money you're saving and reinvesting in your business. You can control who you work with. You can say no to working with certain clients and certain jobs if it doesn't serve you or the rate doesn't serve you or the subject matter does not serve you. There are so many things that are in your control that owning that and really living in the peace of the ownership of that really can be what helps you feel like you're actually doing a little bit more every single day to be the VO boss that you ultimately want to be.  23:20 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and your mention of how empowering that is, I mean that is so empowering. I mean I know that, me the control freak. Maybe that's why I'm a serial entrepreneur, I have no idea because I can control that, I can control the education, I can control the direction that I'm moving and if it's not necessarily moving the way I want it to or expect it to, I can move it again and I can change it again. And so that keeps me the control freak, which it can be a good thing, it can also be a bad thing, but I think for me, I utilize that personality trait that I have of always wanting to have control in a positive way to help me grow and then still understanding that I have these things under my control and then understanding, almost more importantly, what it is that is not under my control and not allowing that to affect me in any way in terms of my mental state.  24:06 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.  24:09 - Anne (Host) Wow, what a great conversation. So yeah guys, no sacrifice, no success. I am a big believer in really taking the ownership, making the sacrifices that you need, and that sacrifice doesn't necessarily need to be money. It could be your time, your dedication, your effort, your spirit, right, all of that. Whatever, it takes that kind of go-get-em sort of boss attitude that just goes for it and just tries things. If it doesn't work, try it another way, right, and really tries not to allow any of that to get in the way, or even yourself to get in the way.  24:45 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I love it.  24:45 - Anne (Host) Danielle, I love it. Great, great conversation. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTL.com and, guys, you have an amazing week. Go out there and make those sacrifices, because we know you guys are going to be great successes. So have a good one, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you later, bye.  25:13 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides delve into the expanding role of on-camera presence for voice actors. Their conversation highlights how versatility across different media is increasingly vital in the entertainment industry. They explore the shift from on-camera work being a side hustle to becoming a fundamental aspect of a successful voiceover career. Anne and Lau emphasize the power of authentic connection, both vocally and visually, and discuss the importance of building supportive online communities. They also touch on practical aspects of self-presentation, including beauty, fashion, and the impact of confidence, ultimately encouraging voice actors to embrace their full presence to thrive professionally and personally.   00:02 - Anne (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzza.com.  00:24 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I am here with my lovely host co-host. I don't know Host and co-host. Look at you, Lau, I called you my host.  00:57 - Lau (Guest) I could be called first things. I'll tell you what, right yeah.  01:01 - Anne (Host) I'm here with my lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. So wonderful to see you. It's been a little bit it has.  01:08 - Lau (Guest) It's awesome to be back. I'm excited 2025.  01:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I apologize. I was a little bit late, Lau, because, as you know, I had to do the hair and the makeup because we do video things now I'm so glad.  01:20 - Lau (Guest) I'm so glad you finally took the time to look appropriate. I'm so glad.  01:22 - Anne (Host) I'm so glad you finally took the time to look appropriate for camera. I'm always such a slob on camera, oh we're divas.  01:27 - Lau (Guest) You know that we're divas, we're fashionistas.  01:31 - Anne (Host) Well, it did take us five minutes prior to pressing record to finish putting our lipstick on. I think what's so interesting, Lau, is that there's like all sorts of parallel careers with on-camera and influencer marketing that can complement your voice acting career.  01:50 - Lau (Guest) And that is amazing because I never thought of it and I know a lot of listeners may not have thought of it, but you're actually involved with it and this is like something we have to talk about today is your on-camera appeal as a voiceover talent. I think it's been a long time that we haven't really faced that. No pun intended, we really have to face our face.  02:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I mean, I agree and I'll tell you what I know.  02:15 We had an episode prior to this where we talked about on-camera and how it was a great additional side hustle, but not really, it's not even really a side hustle, right, there's a lot of agents out there that really look for people that can be on camera as well as do the voice acting, and I think that, besides the traditional on camera, slash, theater, slash voice acting, I think there's also this whole other world of I hate to say, influencer marketing, but there's essentially your presence online that can help to get you and your brand known, and some of it may be influencer, some of it just may be.  02:54 You're creating those videos that other people see, and I'm kind of for this year, because social media is a little bit chaotic and I know there's a lot of people who are kind of fleeing social media, but I think that at some point here's my prediction right my prediction is that people will still form those safe communities, and those safe communities because we've been globally connecting with one another, especially in our industry, right, because we don't have an office, we all go into and meet and talk by the water cooler.  03:23 We are all online, and so I think we're all going to be in our communities wherever they may be, whatever platform they may be, and maybe not even on a platform, maybe just our own Zoom meetings, our Zoom water coolers where we can work with one another and talk with one another and also work with our clients and potential clients, and so I think it's important to talk about what's involved in kind of preparing yourself for this, because for so many years there have been people who want to be voice actors have always thought, well, I don't want to be on camera and that's why I want to be behind the mic, and that's what I love about that. But I think that we really need to kind of open our minds to thinking about our on-camera presence.  04:04 - Lau (Guest) Gosh, there's just so much to unpack about what you just said. We're going to break that up into segments. I think the first one is, of course, as an agent. The first thing I'm thinking about is and I just work with voiceover talent but I'm thinking about do you do on-camera work? Do you also do on-camera work? Because whether you're facing a boutique agency or you're up for representation in one of the bigger hubs, that's one of the first things on their mind is what do you do across the board? Do you do print work? Do you do modeling? Do you do on-camera ads? Do you do, of course, voiceover?  04:36 No longer are we compartmentalized into just being a voiceover talent. Now we're going to work with clients and reps that really want to know wow, could you be the face of this product, like you are? Could you be the model for what we're putting out there? And I'm being unafraid because I hear oftentimes and I know you do too oh, I got a face for radio and you know it isn't even funny anymore, because it's far from truth, it's far from accurate. We don't want you hiding behind a microphone. We don't want to not see you, we want to see you.  05:09 - Anne (Host) Yeah, it also plays into again, guys. I know that, like I said, we covered a lot of this in another episode, but I think it's really relevant and timely that we talk about it again today, because you know, we're talking about people wanting, needing that human connection right Again. We've got chaos right now, social media division everywhere and I think that human connection with like minds and I think that that's so important, that we establish that and on camera, helps that. It totally helps that, that we are representing ourselves as the human beings who have a voice, and not just a voice but a face as well, and we're real. We're real and we want that real connection.  05:53 - Lau (Guest) And we know that in the entertainment industry, seven out of ten jobs are going to go to real people, real looking people, real sounding people, real, authentic personalities Like. We know this for a fact. If you don't believe us, turn on media, go to a movie, listen to the radio, you'll hear what we mean. Right, we just don't hear as many announcers. We don't see as many announcers unless we watch the Super Bowl. So we really want to kind of be aware that, as real people, we're getting a lot more work these days. Real people were getting a lot more work. These days. They're super gorgeous, super model, super of what we think we should be on camera. But that's not accurate. For what today's market?  06:32 - Anne (Host)  Exactly and like even though we kind of were kidding around Lau and talking about putting our lipstick on for you know, for five minutes, that for me it's something that I love, that for me, five minutes, that for me, it's something that I I love, that For me, that's something that I am so passionate about. For myself, anyways, it's certainly not a requirement. I mean, my gosh, look at the celebrities out there that are beautiful without makeup, without the filters. I mean, that's a whole vibe, that's a whole thing.  06:59 So it's not necessarily, guys, that you have to put makeup on it's all about representing yourself and who you are, and I happen to find a very creative artistry in makeup. It's like a newfound passion of mine after so long of when I was behind the mic and not necessarily going out so much, where I didn't really think about it, but now it's like you know what, let me just get a little zhuzhed up for the camera, and I find that I really enjoy it. However, one thing that I have to say, and this is because, guys, I am dabbling a little bit in influencer marketing. I mean, I don't like to call myself an influencer, but I do work with a few brands where I will talk about the brands and put myself on camera and display the product and tell people what I think about that product, and so there's a certain presence and I have to prepare for that. That is something that doesn't come. I'd like to say, it came naturally to me, but there's practice involved and there's preparation time involved in that.  07:58 And it's funny because I do a lot of things Lau and this is like yet another thing on my plate and people are like, well, what are you influencing now? And I'm like, well, not really, I'm just basically doing something I'm passionate about and, yeah, I'm getting paid. I mean, hey, if I can get paid for it, that would be fabulous. And so I am working with a few select brands that I love, and so, because I can be real and human and tell people how much I love them, I can get a little kickback. It's like affiliate marketing. I'm very much on board with that. So I've been doing that and I'm excited to say that I'm on a couple different platforms now. And no, I'm not giving up voice acting. No, I'm not giving up my coaching or demo production business, but it's something I do on the weekends. But Lau, it takes me, like for me to get ready before I present on camera. I mean, it's an event.  08:44 This hair is an event.  08:46 People that have seen me at VO Atlanta. Know, I mean, I love hiring makeup and hair for VIO Atlanta. For me it's like going to the spa, but it is an event, so you have to really put your time in and it's also a different way of marketing yourself. And so there's a whole different world, a whole different way of doing it, and I have to educate myself on how to do that.  09:05 - Lau (Guest) And I'll tell you, you do this brilliantly. I think you need to move yourself forward, whether you're a male or a female, in a very unapologetic way. So if that is part of your jam, and that's what you do, and that's what you love, or that's what you want to get into the fashionista side of our industry, then go for it. There shouldn't be any explanation.  09:25 There shouldn't be any exposition about why you're doing it, or are you leaving, right? You just love it, right? So that's how we're motivating people to be thinking about this. I also want to talk about Annie. I want to talk about the regular people, the real people who get up, they get into their booth, they're behind their mic all day.  09:43 - Anne (Host) I'm a regular person.  09:45 - Lau (Guest) But I mean someone who authentically does not want to be in front of the camera. They don't like dressing up, they don't want to put on makeup. I get that.  10:01 That's probably most people to be honest with you and I'll tell you something. But that's also very real and very engaging and very like. It's like reality TV. Yes, I just want to say a shout out to those people because we love you, we appreciate you, we do. All we're saying is show up as the best you that you can put forward. And if you we just had a conversation about this last night In corporate it's very much the same way.  10:18 If you have a meeting in corporate on WebEx, half the people show up. They don't even turn their videos on in, they don't Show up. Turn on your video, Feel good about the way you look, Feel good about how you're presenting, Own your little square Right. Or if you're going into an office, come in and command the space and feel at home. Feel good about that. That's going to change your physical presence, right. And it's amazing when we look at actors, especially on-camera actors, and we say this actor isn't a particularly aesthetically beautiful person. But boy, are they sexy. Yeah, right, why are they so sexy? In fact, Hollywood always had a name for that. They call it sexy ugly people.  11:01 - Anne (Host) Because they have a confidence.  11:03 - Lau (Guest) They were just real people, regular people, but they were so confident. This is me, you know, yeah absolutely yeah, and they just come in and be like, yeah, this is me and that's you, and I'm excited, we're here, right, let's do some stuff. And that is the beauty of the mind, right? The aesthetics of the spirit that is coming along along with your gorgeous makeup color and your hair, and whatever you choose to do to embellish whether you do that or not, it's got to come from the inside. It's something internal, right?  11:35 - Anne (Host) It's all in how we talk to ourselves, right, it's all in the stories that we tell ourselves. And it's interesting and here's a shameless plug, Lau, I don't know if you're aware, but I did launch a new podcast in January called the Myth of you Self-Awareness in a Digital Age, and we talk about common myths that you might believe about yourself and we talk about the hero's journey. Believe about yourself and we talk about the hero's journey and we talk about how your experiences and how you can learn from your experiences and how you can rewrite your story. You can choose to tell yourself that you're beautiful, whether you feel that or not, and then ultimately really hopefully progress and move forward and be happy, successful.  12:11 All that good stuff and the fact is is that your mind is such a powerful, powerful tool, how you speak to yourself, and we talk a lot about those things. And I'm just so ecstatic to kind of delve more into that area because we've talked about it here as well, because being an actor, being a voice actor, it's very much a mental game, it's very much self-sabotage, the imposter syndrome. All of that is very real and this is such a cool podcast where we really explore that even further. You really need to talk to yourself. And it's funny even in my Pilates class the other day in my head we were doing center and balance class and of course we were on the BOSU ball and I was completely off balance because I feel like I don't know what happened to my balance as I got older.  12:51 But in my head.  12:52 I was going God, I suck at this. And at the time that I said that in my head, I swear to God, my Pilates instructor said now, guys, you may think that you're not good at this, but it's all in what you say in your mind. So remember that if you continually say I suck at something, right, I suck at balance, she goes. Don't say that to yourself. You need to manifest that you're good at balance.  13:13 You're good at center and balance.  13:15 - Lau (Guest) And ultimately your body will follow. And when someone says I don't look good or I'm not excited about getting on camera or I don't really want to offer, you know.  13:26 What are they really saying, like there's a subtext there. Yeah, they're really saying I'm not ready to show up and be present, I'm not ready to put forward who I am, and that's different than what you do. I think a lot of us work so hard and so much, annie, that we self-identify as our work, as our business, which isn't a bad thing, but we lose the sense of the separate self, and a separate self has to feel good about just being and showing up and being present.  13:57 - Anne (Host) Well, how interesting is that? Because when we talk about voice acting right and we're always talking about bringing yourself to your acting, to your read that is really allowing yourself to show up and be present, because, human to human, I connect. Well, I connect to you because of your personality, because of who you are, not because I think you look pretty or I think you sound good. Exactly.  14:15 It's all about bringing your personality, and that's what I try to tell people in. Voice acting it's not so much about how you sound really at all, I mean. How many times can we say that?  14:25 - Lau (Guest) I mean I feel like every coach in the world forevermore will be like voice acting really isn't about how you sound, I mean it's about the connection Right and if you can get out of yourself of your way to the other right to really pay attention and to be curious, to be authentically inquisitive like a child. Like what is that? What is she saying, what is she doing? Why is she? That is what is sexy and attractive and compelling to an audience, is an audience wants to be taken in by curiosity.  15:01 They want to feel that they're interesting. Right, if you can make someone feel that they're interesting because you're interesting. Make someone feel right Make someone feel right.  15:12 - Anne (Host) Isn't that like what it's?  15:12 all about Make someone feel Make someone feel.  15:14 - Lau (Guest) That's the reason why I listen or watch or pay attention to anything, really Okay so, listen, how do we connect this now to this base of your fashion, your branding, your look, your feel? When you get up in the morning, annie, and you think, okay, I'm going to get dressed, I'm going to do my makeup, I'm going to do my hair, I'm going to do my ritual, how do you select, how do you choose where you want to go with that, based on what is going to unfold in your day?  15:40 - Anne (Host) Well, honestly, I mean I just make sure that I get up and do things for myself that are going to make me feel good. Because if I can feel good, right, feel awake, feel healthy, feel alive, yeah, and feel like I've cared for myself, like self-love is not selfish at all, and I've learned that a lot in the past few years, especially because when I had gone through a lot and gained a lot of weight, I'd lost a lot of my confidence. I had a lot of inner dialogue that was not good, and now I said I need to make sure that I make the time to have self-care, because self-care for me really sets the tone, sets the day for everything that happens next, whether I am working with a student, whether I am working with a client. If I feel good about myself, then I can feel good and portray and project that in everything that I do and to everyone that I'm with.  16:38 - Lau (Guest) So, in essence, what you do as your choice, certain things aren't your choice, Like our age, is not our choice. It just happens and that's natural and we move through it. But our choice in everything else we do and how we put ourselves together. Our choice then ricochets and affects other people's choices because their perception of you shifts based on your choice. That's really powerful when you think about that, how much empowerment you have within you, but how much power it has for someone else's potential change for their future, absolutely.  17:14 - Anne (Host) And everything that you say to yourself and do for yourself is a choice. Right, there's always a choice. You always have a choice. Like I just took a great course on happiness. Happiness is a choice. Happiness, joy is a choice. And if you choose joy which I'm always talking about choose joy, do something that makes you joyful, then that will ultimately not only help you but also affect everyone that you are in contact with in every thing that you do, work-wise, personal-wise.  17:42 - Lau (Guest) It's a domino effect.  17:44 It's a domino. So how does someone let's say we take someone who's not accustomed to this way of thinking and just kind of gets up, grabs a coffee and goes to work or does what they need to do, gets up, grabs a coffee and goes to work or does what they need to do? What are some of the steps that we can offer? To revisit and again, I'm not just talking about your business brand, I'm not just talking about your persona in your business, I'm also talking about your personality and persona in your life how do they go about re-envisioning that and making new moves in that direction?  18:17 - Anne (Host) Well, first of all, as we were chatting about earlier, get enough sleep. That's part of self-care right.  18:22 Get enough sleep because.  18:23 I was recently very, very tired I'm kind of recovering from a cold, you can hear that and I had quite a few sleepless nights, while my husband also had a cold and was coughing, and I just was jolted awake multiple times a lot of times because I was worried. But anyways, running on little to no sleep does not help anything when you're trying to start your day out right. So I would say that, and again, it's got to be like how can you start the day? I know a lot of people say this, but I will say honestly what are you grateful for? How can you start your day on a positive note? Because when I was overtired, any little thing could go wrong and I just let it upset me Like I ended up being angry, I ended up crying, I ended up eating more. It was horrible. It was like this cascading sort of trauma.  19:09 - Lau (Guest) Bad choice. Yeah, it was a bad choice fondue.  19:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah, right. So if you can again start the day with figuring out what are you grateful for, what are you happy for? I mean, I know it's been a tough start to the year. I know a lot of people have suffered health issues, it's been chaotic out there in social media and politically, and turbulent in the world, and I think that we need to have our safe spaces where we can still acknowledge and no one can take that away from you by the way.  19:34 - Lau (Guest) I love that, no matter what. I love it.  19:36 - Anne (Host) No one can take your joy away from you. No one can take your inner state right and your choice of joy and gratefulness away from you.  19:46 - Lau (Guest) Yes, yes, amen, sister. And we know this Again my tattoo that says resilience, resilience. So many people live in horrors, yeah, horrors, yeah. So many people live in horrors, horrors, but still make the choice to have joy in their daily life.  19:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Because joy is small.  20:00 - Lau (Guest) It's very, very minute. It's a minutia choice to see things in a joyous way. I'm all for that. I'm going to give a practical and pragmatic one. Sure, okay, in the morning look at your closet. If you have more than one, go to your different closets. Look at your closet and make a concerted effort to choose something you haven't worn in the last six months and it's going to feel very uncomfortable to you because a lot of those clothes in there I guarantee you are for when you get thinner, are for when you feel younger are for that special occasion, or for when you feel younger, or for that special occasion or da-da-da-da-da, but you refuse to get rid of it because you've got some hopes and dreams and memories connected to it.  20:41 - Anne (Host) I have a sparkly shirt, mom, I'm going to challenge you.  20:43 - Lau (Guest) I love it. I'm going to challenge you. I got up and wore the sparkly shirt. Choose one of those. And here's the challenge. If you're not willing to choose it, I need you to give it away.  20:52 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah.  20:53 I need you to give it away I like that Because it's actually holding back your joy.  20:57 - Lau (Guest) It's holding back your beauty. It's holding back your full measure of confidence, Because there's something in there that says oh, someday I'll wear it, Someday I'll look good in it. Someday. It sounds small, doesn't it? But that's like a huge feng shui move. Oh absolutely.  21:11 - Anne (Host) There's like a whole science behind cleaning your closet. A whole science? Yeah, absolutely, and I'm that person that you know. I had clothes of every size in my closet Small for when I lost the weight, and large, and it's funny because after this last round of losing weight, I literally took everything that was sized larger than I was at the time and I said that's it, I'm donating it.  21:35 - Lau (Guest) That's right, let someone else enjoy it, Let someone else live in it and appreciate it and have a life in it, and it's not yours anymore, right?  21:44 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Annie, it's not yours anymore.  21:45 - Lau (Guest) I got another one. Go to anywhere Go to Sephora, go to Mac, go online, go anywhere you like and get a new palette for yourself of color. It could be makeup, it could be wardrobe I love that. It could be hair accessories, it could be props whatever you want it to be. If you're a man, you might choose something that you're going to carry every day. Whatever. What's important about that is it's fresh, it reflects you today and it's hopeful. There's optimism in that right, that little moment of re-envisioning they used to have. They don't have as many now, but they remember Annie, the days where they had a lot of makeover shows Like every show was the makeover show.  22:26 They don't have as many of those anymore, but I mean, the idea of makeover is something I think internally that as human beings we need a couple times a year. We need to make ourselves re-envision, reinvent, so that we don't get static and held down and stale by the past.  22:44 - Anne (Host) Well, we don't want to talk about my makeup collection.  22:48 - Lau (Guest) I kind of do because you have the best makeup. It is large, I kind of do. It is a large collection. Build-a-beans we want to know, annie. It is a large collection.  22:56 - Anne (Host) Still the beans we want to know, annie, it is a large collection which I actually have to go through because they tell you, you know, after six months you need to dispose of your lipsticks your eyeshadows, tell the truth.  23:03 - Lau (Guest) I have a ton. How many?  23:03 - Anne (Host) closets? Do you have full of makeup? Well, I don't have closets, but I have lots of drawers.  23:12 - Lau (Guest) Wait, let me guess I'm going to say six.  23:15 - Anne (Host) At least three, but they're big drawers. They're big, they're like double-sized drawers. Don't believe her, it's got to be six. But there's a point, though, when you can't have too much and you've got to go purge, and so when you purge, that also is a wonderful feng shui cleansing ritual. But I like the fact that I have every color palette in the world, I feel. But then it's funny, because if I watch somebody like a video on Instagram and I see somebody with a different color, I'm like, ooh, I like that color, and so it's something new. It doesn't even have to be a makeup color. It can be like maybe just like a new product, and the product does not have to be expensive. I kid around about my Chanel lipsticks, but honestly, I have found much more cost-effective lipsticks lately in different colors that are amazing.  23:57 - Lau (Guest) Okay, Now I'm going to come from the real world too, because the real world would say, okay, that's fantastic and those are great products, good quality products too. But let's say I don't want them, I can't afford them, they're not for me. I might go over to the dollar store. Oh, absolutely.  24:11 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I might go over to CVS In fact I might go over to CVS.  24:12 - Lau (Guest) In fact I might go online, so there's a lot of places you can get very similar.  24:17 - Anne (Host) Just watch your ingredients right, Make sure you don't have allergies that you're going to break out. Oh, there's a brand that I use. That's very drugstore cheap for facial products I mean. I used to buy it. Can you say what it is? Can you tell us ELF, elf.  24:32 - Lau (Guest) We love Elf.  24:33 - Anne (Host) I mean, it's good stuff, and I've been actually I replaced my entire. I do a lot of makeup from them and I also do skincare as well. I love it. I love it, so I'm not spending a ton of money on it either, and so you don't have to spend a lot of money.  24:47 - Lau (Guest) And again, it doesn't have to be makeup, but if it makes you feel good, absolutely I think you need to move it out too within a certain amount of time, just for, like, cleanliness and bacteria. Yeah, absolutely that, if you are using it within what is it, annie? Six to eight months, or something you're supposed to get rid of it?  25:03 And the other thing, too, is we all know don't double dip, right. So get your one-time applicators whether it's your eyes or very sensitive areas Don't double dip, because then all the bacteria is going into your makeup. These are things like that a lot of folks don't think of, they don't know that are so, so helpful, right what?  25:22 - Anne (Host) other tips? What other? Okay, so what sort of tips can we give for people that are not wanting to wear makeup? Let's say, maybe it's not makeup related, All right, I got one.  25:30 - Lau (Guest) I got one. This is for everyone, but men love this and you're seeing this more with aesthetics lines is taking care of your skin. So at any age, it's really important to hydrate, to exfoliate, to stay out of the sun or get a little vitamin D but not too much and really be careful with your skin, not just because of skin cancer and those types of things, but also because you want to have this inner radiant feel. You don't want to feel like a saddlebag, you don't want to feel like you know you've been worn down.  26:01 - Anne (Host) You know what I?  26:02 - Lau (Guest) mean Like someone's going to sit on you on a horse. You know what I mean. Like you want to feel fresh. You know? One of the things I love is I love humidifiers and a manicure pedicure can help anybody, I don't care who you are.  26:15 - Anne (Host) Thank you, can I? Tell you how many times my husband will be like, hey, do you want to come with me? Just to like keep me company. And oh, he'll be like, well, okay, but I know he enjoys it. Are you kidding me? How can you?  26:25 - Lau (Guest) not, I mean it's incredible, you know it's incredible.  26:31 - Anne (Host) What about a facial Massage?  26:33 - Lau (Guest) Oh my gosh, get a massage.  26:35 - Anne (Host) I am a big believer in massage. I feel like it moves fluids and it gets rid of toxins. Big believer in that.  26:42 - Lau (Guest) Now what about changing out one piece of your wardrobe? Because we all get comfortable. We have comfy clothes. We tend to wear them every day. You and I do similar things with the glasses. We tend to switch out our glasses just because we get tired of wearing the same glasses. It's part of the fashion, it's part of how you feel, it's part of how you look on camera. That's a very simple thing to do. To have I wear cheaters. I'm not into prescription just yet. I need the prescription.  27:10 No, I don't mind saying to people, I'll go to the dollar store, I'll get 10 pairs of glasses. I'll put them in all different places that I know I need to use them. I just went up. I think I'm like a 2.0 right now, or 2.5 or whatever it is, and that's enough for me. I don't need any stronger than that. And that way, every time I put them on, I have a slightly different feel, because it maybe matches the outfit or maybe matches the occasion. Maybe it just feels differently to me.  27:36 - Anne (Host) Right, let's see One there. You go Right here in my two. Wait there you go. I have three different pairs of glasses right here, so like I've got a tortoise shell.  27:46 - Lau (Guest) I love and I love your glasses. I've got black. I love your glasses. One more thing I want to mention too. I think I've got a red in here too. Who doesn't? I mean, red is the best, red is a power color.  27:57 - Anne (Host) This is my original boss glasses. They're gorgeous, Gosh.  28:00 - Lau (Guest) I love them. What about? Let's talk about jewelry for a second.  28:03 - Anne (Host) Oh, I love jewelry.  28:04 - Lau (Guest) So now a lot of folks might say I don't wear jewelry or it's too expensive, it breaks. I'm telling you go costume, go costume, oh God yeah. And think about how that jewelry reflects a piece of who you are. For instance, it might be culturally based, it might be a particular designer that you like, where they're from internationally. It might have a symbol that you care about. It might be a locket with a photo in it.  28:33 - Anne (Host) There's so many ways you can wear jewelry right. Amazon has a lot of great costume jewelry.  28:36 - Lau (Guest) That is reasonably priced. Just saying I wear costume a lot more than I wear the real thing.  28:41 - Anne (Host) A lot of this is Amazon costume yeah.  28:45 - Lau (Guest) Yeah, I wear a lot of beads. I really just am in love with beads because they break. You give it a little wish and a prayer and then you go on. I don't worry about it at all. You just don't worry like you'd worry about a very expensive piece. It's just fun. There's a fun in wearing different watches.  29:02 - Anne (Host) Well, it's kind of like I wear a lot of bling and it's funny because a lot of this is like vintage, a lot of it is my mother's and people will be like, well, wow, you're wearing a lot of diamonds there and I'm like, well, here's the deal. If they're not on my finger, they're in a safe and it doesn't make me feel close to my mother.  29:17 It's not that I'm trying to like say, oh, look at all the diamonds or look how sparkly. I mean I just want to feel close to my mother, and so that to me. I made that decision a few years ago. I said you know what? I am not going to the time, annie, with actors.  29:30 - Lau (Guest) Figure out your hair already. You know what I mean. Like a lot of people, are like well, I'm going white and I don't know if I want to go white. I've got red in it and then I'm like listen, it's fun, it's fashion, you can change it. It shouldn't be something that you feel married to or that you hate.  29:53 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I've never felt married to my hair, although lately, I mean, I have long hair. Should I cut?  29:58 - Lau (Guest) it. Can I take your hair? I love your hair. I'd like to see what I look like with long blonde locks.  30:03 - Anne (Host) But it's funny because I for a very long time had very short hair and so it really just depends. Oh, I didn't know that, oh yeah. When I was growing up I had very short hair. I had kind of like that pixie cut, and so I never had long hair until later on when I decided to let it grow and then it was just the thing, and then sometimes a little bit of it fell out when I was sick.  30:26 So then it grows back. Hair does grow back, that's right.  30:29 However, it is just hair and gosh Lau. There's always a wig, I know Right, there's always a wig. I know Right, there's always a wig.  30:37 - Lau (Guest) As we started this conversation by saying most things are choices, most, not all. My age is not my choice. It is what it is and I work with it, but most other things are my choice. My height is not my choice.  30:49 - Anne (Host) right, right, my voice is not my choice either. No, but as you train your voice. Yes, exactly, is not my choice either.  30:56 - Lau (Guest) No, but as you train your voice and you find different ways you can find different shades of your voice, then that's a nice choice to make is what can I do with my voice and where can it go? That does become a choice. So, wow, this conversation could go on and on, couldn't it?  31:09 - Anne (Host) I feel like we need to have more coffee and chit chat about makeup. I know, Bosses believe it or not, this does have a lot of relevance to you and, even though we were talking about fashion and makeup and influencing it, really, guys, get yourself out there because and show your humanness, show who you are in all aspects of your career. Really, I think that's one thing that's going to keep us moving forward in turbulent times and keep joy in our hearts and really, I mean, help us to maybe even propel our businesses.  31:38 - Lau (Guest) I love it and I'll leave everyone on this. Don't forget to smile, because we use that as a technical tool in voiceover but aside from that, it makes you feel good and younger and connected and happy and joyous, and so that is just your little technical tool for the day. And a lot of people say you look nicer, prettier, more warmer, younger, like all those fun stuff we love to hear just by smiling.  32:04 - Anne (Host) Well, great conversation, Lau. Thank you so much. It was wonderful to get back together with you and I'll give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. A great big shout out to our sponsor IPDTL. You, too, can connect and chit chat about cool things like makeup and hair and fashion and voiceover and on camera things. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  32:30 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Tom Dheere examine the state of the voiceover industry a few months into 2025. They discuss the direct impact of political and economic events on booking trends and content. The conversation explores how corporate messaging is adapting to cultural and policy changes, the ongoing role of authenticity, and the evolving, perhaps less threatening, landscape of AI. Ultimately, they offer a message of adaptation, education, and resilience for voice actors navigating the current climate.   00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, are you new to voiceover and not sure where to start? Join the VOPeeps VI Peeps membership and get access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded classes, a 15% discount on all VOPeeps, guest workshops and free monthly workouts. This membership is perfect for those wanting to get started in the industry. Find out more at vopeeps.com. Slash join dash now.  00:32 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. And successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today Rock your business like a boss a VO boss.  00:54 - Anne (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here with the one and only Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, hi, tom. Oh goodness, tom, we're a few months into 2025, and it's been quite a year so far, wouldn't you say I would say yes, it has.  01:13 Lots of disruption going on in the world in so many ways I would say economically, socially, I mean. It's a new administration and I know that we spoke earlier about setting your goals and starting off on the right foot for 2025 and finding out who you are. Now that we're a few months in, I think we should go back and readdress what's happening. What's going on? How are you feeling about the state of things? Let's maybe open it up with the state of our industry, the voiceover industry. How are you feeling the state of voiceover is a few months into 2025?  01:49 - Tom What's interesting about it, Anne, is that your emotional state when you are watching the news or doom scrolling on social media is going to make you feel a certain way about how everything is going and, depending on your political inclination, you may think everything is going wonderfully or you may think everything is going terribly.  02:12 But then there's that pesky little thing called reality, which is the reality of how many auditions am I getting, how often am I booking, how much money am I making? Where are those voiceover bookings coming from? And, based on what's going on in the world, how much of that is directly or indirectly affecting our individual voiceover businesses?  02:39 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, and because we're service-based right. It affects us very much. Right, it affects us because companies are hiring us to, for the most part, entertain or sell. Right, and, depending on how the companies are feeling and companies are reacting to the issues that are going on in the world today, may have a direct impact on our business.  03:01 - Tom Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. Our business? Yeah, so just as a point of reference, let's look at 2024. One of the major things that happened that had a huge impact on voiceover work was the presidential election, because, distressingly late in 2024, we weren't sure who was running for president on either side of the aisle, much less who their running mates were. That had a massive effect on corporations when it came to advertising budgets and what the content of the advertising would be. So last summer, 2024, july August there was a huge dip in voiceover work across the board because companies didn't know where to put their money.  03:46 - Anne (Host) Except in political maybe.  03:47 - Tom  Except in political.  03:48 And then when September, October, hit, the political campaigns all went crazy and a lot of the advertising got stopped up because so much ad space was being taken up by political advertising.  04:02 There was a noticeable drop in commercials for television and radio because all the political ad buys were taking up all the real estate. So that is one pretty clear, direct example about how what's going on in the real world affected what was going on in the voiceover industry. So let's look at spring of 2025 of what's going on right now is since there's virtually no political ads, as in campaign ads. I mean, there's a smattering of them here and there and a smattering of issue ads, but I didn't notice any more than there usually has been, which means the void that the political ads left got immediately taken up by commercials, left got immediately taken up by commercials. So there seems to be as much work as there was at any given time in recent voiceover history. I agree with you there. But the question is, what is the content and context of the ads and other voiceover genres and what are the casting demands and what are the performance demands for?  05:09 - Anne (Host)  Now also, we're thinking, I think, right now, commercial broadcast style voiceover. When we think about that, I agree with you that, yes, there's as much work, I think, as there ever has been. However, it's the content that might be changing and the context. You're absolutely right, but also there might be in terms of industrial content, like the industries that are advertising, the industries that are hiring voice talent that may or may not be broadcast. Maybe we're talking e-learning, we're talking corporate, we're talking all the different non-broadcast style voiceover. I think, in that realm where I'm seeing I'm not seeing a drop necessarily, but I'm seeing companies looking very carefully at what they're saying and what they want their brand message to be.  05:54 - Tom Yes.  05:54 - Anne (Host) And that is very key for somebody like myself if I produce demos, to make sure that the content is reflective of the culture and the society of the times.  06:06 - Tom Yes, culture definitely has an influence on advertising broadcast and it also has an influence on internal content, e-learning content, corporate industrial content. Actually, I just realized last year I had narrated an app for a large governmental organization, let's just say, and it was about harassment in the workplace and it was a big project and I did it all and the client was thrilled and I got paid and everything was great. Just a few days ago, the client wrote me and said hey, as a result of all of these executive orders that have been stripping away DEI policies and verbiage, I had to record a decent chunk of it all over again with the new policies and whatever we'll call it, awareness of it in mind.  07:01 - Anne (Host) Yeah, that's the biggest thing that I am seeing and, again, we're not here to be political. However, the two of us need to take a realistic look as to okay, so what are companies having to do to maybe adhere to policies? Because companies that maybe depended on support from the government may have to rewrite some policies. They may have to rethink how they're speaking, and that directly impacts a lot of the corporate work that I've done and also corporate training as well I do. The majority of my work in the e-learning aspect is through corporate.  07:34 I do some educational, which I think that also can be touched, but not in such a direct manner Like, let's say, dei or I'm just trying to think like, what other types of topics and support and safety and environmental. Let's think about environmental changes. Right Before, in a lot of corporate, there was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. There was a lot of talk about sustainability, talk about climate change. Companies wanted their audiences to hear that they were supporting these things, because that's what mattered to the majority of people, that they wanted to be on board with them. Now, is that a thing when we're talking about alternative energy right, alternate energy are we going to now be talking about drilling and fracking versus, you know, solar power or those types of things.  08:18 - Tom  Yeah, absolutely, and top-down policies are going to have a trickle-down effect, but also, as in if federal laws are changing or being enacted or being repealed, that's going to have a big effect on a lot of the policies of the companies, because they have to be compliant with local, state and federal law to be able to run their business legally and effectively. So, yeah, it will definitely have a top-down effect. The other thing is economic.  08:47 - Anne (Host) Yes, we always have to look at the economics.  08:49 - Tom You always have to look at the economics of it, and we're still seeing what the full effect of all of these tariffs are going to be on multiple countries, which is going to the majority of economics say, regardless of your political bent, that this is going to create an increase in prices of many, many items. Or some items just may not be available in the United States to be imported and there's some based on reciprocal tariffs. There may be items that the United States manufacturers that cannot be exported.  09:23 - Anne (Host) Well, absolutely, and in terms of hiring, and in terms of hiring. In terms of hiring. I do know that I heard from one of my students, canadian students, that is it favorable now to be an American voicing a Canadian brand at this point?  09:38 Or vice versa, or vice versa, and so we have to think about that or any global brand. So it's interesting to really see. I think a lot of us are so in our studio bubbles that we forget how this impacts the industry, and it impacts our jobs. It can directly affect our jobs, and so it's something that we need to keep our eyes open to. And even though I know a lot of people are like I'm off social media or I you know, it's just sometimes it's difficult for people to watch the news I do think that we have to keep ourselves in touch enough to understand where the trends are going and what things are happening if we want to keep our businesses afloat. And now I guess the next question, Tom, is are we doom-scrolling our voiceover industry at this point? I mean?  10:27 - Tom How do you feel about it? There's a lot of hysteria and confusion and frustration and fear and anger on every social media platform that I have seen. Some of it is a healthy discourse, some of it is fear and hate-mongering. Some of it is a healthy discourse. Some of it is fear and hate mongering. Some of it is a cry for desperation and comfort and commiseration. It's a combination of all of those things.  10:44 So the question is do you shut off all of your social media and go take a walk? Sometimes that's a very, very good idea. But, just exactly to your point, anne, we need to keep an eye on what's going on. Also, all of the social media groups that we're on, they're national or international, so we can keep an eye on what's going on in other parts of the country and other parts of the industry and how it may or may not affect us. Like, for example, I just saw recently a social media post Somebody was talking about well, what happens if there's a recession? How is that going to affect the voiceover industry? Now, I don't know if you remember, but 2008, 2009, the great recession oh, I do. I did not remember and I went back and I looked at my numbers. I didn't notice any effect, noticeable effect, on it.  11:29 When COVID hit March of 2020, there was a noticeable dip, but then April it went right back up and 2020 was a pretty good year for me. But paying attention to things like that and you know, instead of being in your own little bubble, about being terrified about everything, but when you're actually doing your own research off of social media and looking for intelligent discourse on social media to find actual facts, and listening to people who've been around the block a few times, like you or I, who was like, yeah, no, the recession was not a big deal and oh, yeah, covid, things bounced back really quickly and, like I said, last year's, well, the strikes, the SAG-AFTRA strikes, the interactive strike, which is still ongoing, unfortunately, but hopefully they'll be able to fight for their rights and protect all of us. When it comes to AI and other bad practices, the voiceover industry seems to be relatively pliant and relatively resilient. Yes, because, no matter what, people are still trying to sell things. People are still trying to buy things.  12:28 I love that. You said that People still need to teach things. You know what I mean.  12:31 - Anne (Host) I mean, we are a company ourselves, right, we want to stay afloat.  12:34 We're right now looking at and if you aren't, you need to be right Always, you need to be looking at how are you going to stay afloat, how is your business going to continue to show progress, move forward, be successful?  12:46 And it just basically comes down to we're evolving. We're evolving with the times, right, and I think that I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think there's going to be any less of a demand for voiceover because, as you mentioned, companies still want to exist, they still want to sell a product, and so part of that sell is including a voice to speak the brand and to communicate that sell to others. And so I don't think it's doom scrolling, but I do believe that we need to educate ourselves on what the trends are, and not just the trends on the style of voiceover, although I think that it's good to understand, like, what's out there? How is that message being told? I always maintain that the best performance trend, the best voiceover performance trend to follow, is just be an actor, be a damn actor, right, because if you're an actor, you evolve, you can evolve and change, just like you need to do with your business.  13:44 And I think that you kind of touched on synthetic voices and AI Again, if we were to talk about how do you feel that that's affecting the industry these days? I can tell you, in my opinion, right now, I think that things are working themselves out, hopefully on a more positive note, and I don't think that the fascination is there for me. I'm not seeing the fascination there with voiceover jobs being stolen by AI. I believe that more of the focus needs to be on let's just protect our voices so that they're not being used without our permission and being developed into a synthetic voice. Or, if we have a synthetic voice, make sure that we're getting compensated for it. What are your thoughts?  14:22 - Tom  I generally agree, because everyone who decided that AI is the devil and decided not to get involved in any level of critical thinking or investigating about it, they have not changed their minds. The people that jumped in with both feet are probably still jumping in with both feet. What I think to your point you're saying is that everybody that wanted to give it a sniff, that wanted to try it out, test the water, has done it not just once, but maybe twice, because ChatGPT rolled out November 2022 and now we're in mid 2025. So I think there's been like At least from my observation, there's been like two rounds of companies giving AI a try. The first one was just to, oh, let's see what this is all about.  15:03 And then some were like, oh, this is great, this is perfect. Others are like, no, this is awful. And then there's others who, a year or so later, is like you know what? It's probably gotten two years better. Let's give it another try. And then same thing happens. Some thought, oh, okay, it's good enough now, or it's not good enough now, or making whatever decision. But yeah, the fervor from the consumer end, I think, has settled.  15:26 I think so too, and I think the terror from the voiceover end I think for the most part is settled. There's still questions about it.  15:33 - Anne (Host) Sure, and we've got great organizations fighting for us as well. Nava has been doing a phenomenal job in that regard, and if you're a business and you're not using AI in some capacity to manage your data, you're missing out. You're missing out on the boat, and we did talk about that previously in an episode, tom, you and I. It's just getting better and better at that, but it's not necessarily getting better at speaking your voice synthetically. But data management, I think, is just leaps and bounds and it's integrated in a lot of the products we're using and you may not even know it. It's kind of like.  16:07 I think I mentioned this to you before Back in the day I installed voice over IP phone systems when they first came out and people just said oh my God, they sucked, They'll never work, They'll never last, and ultimately, that's what we do today. I mean, it's all voice over IP. Everything that we're doing is we're communicating, Our phone lines are over data internet lines and it's just that's what's happening. Now. We have voice over IP and we don't even know it. It's seamless. So I believe that the AI data management is being built in seamlessly into things that we use like Google or I think you're using Google Workspace.  16:36 - Tom  I am using Google Workspace and Google Gemini is my favorite AI, google Gemini.  16:39 - Anne (Host) I have ChatGPT. I have a couple other products that do some automated things for me that are under the ChatGPT, and I continually look for tools that can help me to run my business more efficiently. So I don't think that in the voice realm of things. Oh my God. I just said a company.  16:54 - Tom  Naughty, naughty.  16:54 - Anne (Host) I didn't even know In the voiceover world. I don't know if synthetic voices are quite the terror and the scare that they were in the last couple of years.  17:03 - Tom  I still think the same thing is exactly what you and Andy said on that wonderful narratorlife interview that you did, which you said garbage in, garbage out. Good actors are going to make good AIs, bad actors are going to make bad AI are going to make bad AI. And the relevance gap I still think is growing, of people that are lacking in talent or training storytelling training, that are trying to enter the world of voiceover, are just not going to be able to get in. So I think that still stands.  17:28 - Anne (Host) And everybody I talk to we're talking about. Like anything today, if you want to capture someone's attention, right, marketing, wise, right it's all about authenticity. It's all about authenticity. It's all about give the human aspect to you. Even when I write a newsletter, it's like give somebody that vulnerable part of yourself that talks directly to them and doesn't just try to sell them or doesn't just try to, like, promote things. And give that authenticity. And I really believe that, as humans, that's who we are and that's what we have and that is just our strength. And when we are performing voiceover and we are voice actors, I think the more that we can be authentic in whatever genre we are voicing, the better off we are and the more successful we will be.  18:08 - Tom I agree. I had another thought about. Something that we were talking about a little earlier is that unemployment seems to be rising because of all of these federal layoffs.  18:19 Layoffs, yeah, and then as a result of tariffs.  18:20 if prices are going up, they have to maintain profit margins, so sometimes they need to cut labor. So what's been interesting in voiceover is that, as a result of AI, there has been less of the entry-level, lowest budget voiceover work, which means there's less opportunities for people who are entering the voiceover industry, and that may mean some people are not able to have a sustainable voiceover business model, so they're leaving the voiceover industry. However, if employment does keep going up the way that it does, does that mean more people are going to come back who want?  18:55 - Anne (Host) to give voiceover a shot. Yeah, exactly that was my experience when COVID happened.  19:01 And people, how many of my coaching business, I mean I had like tripled business with people who were using the time to learn voiceover and to get into voiceover and to utilize their voice for something good. I mean, I think that's still like. The desire of most people that get into this industry is they want to use their voice to do something good and, of course, make some money. Sure, that's always a key element to be successful in voiceover business. But what other aspects, tom, have we not covered here in this few months, now that we're in 2025? We've talked about, I mean, really, how dependent our industry is on the economy and the message that is out there, the brand that is out there.  19:50 - Tom Right. Yeah, it's dependent and it's independent at the same time, when we are getting into what seems to be a very interesting year on a sociological, social, cultural, political, economic level, what can we as voice actors do? So what should us bosses do? It's the same answer all the time, anne Right.  20:11 - Anne (Host) What do we do? Keep training, keep learning.  20:13 - Tom Keep growing, keep marketing, keep marketing. Keep following industry trends. Continue to have conversations with fellow voice actors. Continue to have conversations with your current and potential clients. Pay attention to what's going on on social media, but don't get sucked in by it. But pay attention, learn, grow, adapt, evolve and educate Educate yourself and educate each other.  20:33 - Anne (Host) Educate, adapt, evolve. I love that. Educate, adapt, evolve. I think that really should be our mantra for this year Educate, adapt, evolve and I think everything will be absolutely fine in this voiceover industry. And also just one thing that I want to make mention is that during those lean times where you may not be finding work or work slows down, it's always important to kind of go back and listen to other voiceover podcast episodes that I've had with Tom, of course, about your business and how to build your business and be successful, as well, as I've had a money series with Daniel Fambul, which talks about the fact that if times are lean for me or I'm considering investing more in my business, which would mean maybe I'm going to get coaching, maybe I'm going to get a new demo, maybe I'm going to get a new website which, by the way, I've done all those things and I've had to make a lot of investments this year, and so it's important to have the mindset right, the mindset of being willing to invest.  21:32 I think that's important being willing to invest in this career If you love this career and this is what you want to do and you want to grow, having the mindset of being willing to invest, and I, right now, in my own business, I've transitioned over to a new website, I'm doing a lot of new things that are on the scary side of things for me. I mean, I think if you're not scared every day, you're not taking a risk every day. And, by the way, this risk is not just a risk performance-wise or strategy-wise, it is a risk financially-wise, because I'm investing in a part of my business that I want to grow, and so it's not easy and it's scary, but it's something that I believe every boss needs to really take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk. Take a look at and be willing to take a little bit of a risk, and I'm thankful that and, tom, we've talked about this I'm thankful that I have a little bit of a nest egg that I can make these investments yeah.  22:26 - Tom So my new mantra will now be if you're not taking risks, you're not trying, and if you're not scared you're not trying hard enough.  22:33 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that a lot. Yeah, Tom. So I admit that I'm scared. Are you scared? Are you scared every?  22:39 - Tom  day. Am I conscious? Yes, of course I'm scared.  22:41 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what things scare you? I'm just curious what things scare you in running your business?  22:46 - Tom Well, I mean just as a basic normal, semi-normal neurotic human. I still have my imposter syndrome. I hear you I still have my FOMO.  22:55 I'm still afraid that 30 years later, that clients are just going to be like well we don't just like his face anymore and they're just not going to book me and they come back. They all come back, as in you know, most of them come back for all good reasons and other people don't come back for whatever other reason. 99% of the time has absolutely nothing to do with me. But my biggest fear is the fear of being irrelevant, and I've had a couple of times in my voiceover career where I, as a result of very poor business decision-making, I made myself less relevant.  23:28 The jumping off of Voice123 in 2013 and then being off it for seven years made me less relevant as a voice actor because I wasn't paying attention to what was going on in the industry. I was up my own you-know-what about it and making decisions based on fear, ego, insecurity and arrogance and ignorance.  23:47 - Anne (Host) Oh, my God, I just love that. You just you were so authentic with that. That's really wonderful. I mean, I love that you're sharing that with us because that's something that I think everybody can take and really learn from myself included taking these risks that have not always worked out and, yeah, a lot of it is because I was stubborn. I have a little bit of a stubborn streak. I'll admit to you that mine would be stubborn in feeling like what I was doing was the way and there was not another way to do.  24:18 It was the way and there was not another way to do it. And that stubbornness and not allowing myself to open my eyes, especially when because I hire a team of people right, and trying to do everything myself, thinking I was the only person that could do it, being that kind of a person, that control freak which I am that held me back. It was scary to me. I was scared that if I didn't control it myself, that I would lose control and that I wouldn't be able to grow the business. But quite the opposite happened. After all, that, when I allowed myself to be open to collaborating and working with others and it's one of the reasons why I love to collaborate with you, tom, because there's so much power in collaboration together and that is one of the basis is for when you want to run a strong business. I'll never forget Gary Vaynerchuk said hire people who are better than you to do those things and don't be afraid of that. Don't be scared of that and treat them right, because that's going to help you all grow and move forward.  25:07 - Tom Absolutely Surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you is another mantra that I've heard over the years, and it's really really true.  25:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, I love it, tom. Thank you so much. I think that last nugget was the best of all out of this episode. I really love talking with you in these podcasts, so thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like real bosses. You can find out more at IPDTL.com. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:41 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Tolupe Kolade, a leading voice from Nigeria's vibrant voiceover scene, connect to explore the sonic tapestry of Africa's storytelling. They unpack Tolupe's experiences building a career and community within a dynamic market, offering a window into the unique challenges and triumphs of voice acting on the continent. Listeners will discover the crucial role of genuine expression in connecting with audiences, gain understanding of the industry's growth in Africa, and appreciate the power of shared narratives across borders. Anne and Tolupe also discuss practical pathways for aspiring voice talent and the evolving nature of the global voice landscape.   00:01 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Anne changed my life a few years ago while coaching me for my commercial demo. Since then, I've been traveling throughout Europe and the UK and I never miss a VO Boss podcast. It's just how I start my Wednesday, no matter what country I'm in. I love that I can stay connected with her and continue to learn about VO even from across the pond. Love you, Anne.  00:23 - Speaker 4 (Ad) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune-boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anganguza.com to shop.  01:00 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.  01:22 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey guys, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am honored to have a very special guest with me today, all the way from Nigeria, Tolupe Kolade, also known as T-Code, which is such a cool, I love that name. He is a Nigerian voiceover artist, podcaster and coach, and a 2024 Sova's Award nominee for Outstanding Commercial Best African Voiceover. As the creator of Nigeria's first voiceover podcast, Everything Voiceover's, the African Perspective, and the creative partner of the Association of African Podcasters and Voice Artists, APVA, T-Code champions the African voiceover industry, mentoring new talents and collaborating with top brands to bring impactful storytelling to life. I love that. I love that so much. T-code, it is so nice to have you on the show. Finally.  02:13 - Tolupe (Guest) Finally, Thank you so much.  02:15 Anne.  02:16 It's been years of listening to you over the seas and I can't express how excited I am right now to share the same podcast with you being a guest. Oh my God, I feel so great.  02:29 - Anne (Host) Well, I'll tell you what. You sent me, oh my gosh, years ago, a really lovely audio testimonial about my podcast. And I just recently if obviously you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I never really did any ads or anything and I finally decided, gosh, I should do some ads for my own podcast for however many years. And so I started featuring some of the audio testimonials from people, and I featured yours and then, all of a sudden, I got flagged in this amazing video that you created for me and bosses out there, if you ever want to do a testimonial that will get the attention of a potential client right, this is a very boss move. I love this .T-code Create a lovely video that does a nice shout out, that expresses gratitude, and it was a lovely video and I was so touched that you took the time to create a video and, by the way, the production value was just amazing.  03:20  kudos on the production value of that. I mean it was insane, and I was just so excited that you were excited and I wanted to talk to you. I mean, with all these accomplishments, you are quite a VO boss, and so I was only too happy to ask if you would be on the show, and my apologies because bosses out there. I don't know about this time zone slash day but I completely messed up the first time that we were supposed to get together, so I'm just so glad that we're finally here.  03:48 So glad to have you on the show.  03:50 - Tolupe (Guest) Thank you so much.  03:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah, so let's talk about your start in voiceover, because I think a lot of bosses here we know what happens in our own little bubble here, but it's difficult to really find out what's going on in other countries. And how is voiceover? How is it doing in Africa? And you're championing it. So I think it's a wonderful start to talk about how you got started.  04:14 - Tolupe (Guest) Okay, so I'm going to talk about how I got started and then we talk about the industry in Africa. I got started officially in 20. So there was the 2016 version of me getting into voiceovers and there was the 2016 version of me getting into voiceovers and there was the 2020 version of me getting into voiceovers In 2016. It was more of broadcasting. As a broadcaster, I worked on radio and that was where I got introduced to the world of recording audio.  04:40 Prior to that time, well, even while I was in university because I graduated from the university in 2015, I did a bit of radio stuff and that was actually the first time that I would do a voiceover. I wasn't a presenter at the time, but someone heard my voice and said, oh, would you like to come to the university radio station? Which I said okay, yes, I did. And I got there and they said oh, said oh, okay, what stuff have you got? So the radio station's name was something around Versity Radio at the time and I just said you're listening to Versity Radio, something around that, and they were like whoa, that was great and they allowed me do the voiceovers for the radio station, the audio branding and all of that at the time, but then I wasn't schooled about voiceover. I didn't really know what it was, so I continued my radio journey.  05:29 2016. I would go to other radio stations and do the same thing for the radio stations and the presenters on the radio. Then, 2017, I started understanding what voiceover was because I was officially working on radio at this time.  05:43 - Anne (Host) Did you have your own radio  at this time, and did you have your own shows at that time? 05:47 - Tolupe (Guest) Yeah, I had a show on radio, but I was more on tv because the establishment was a tv and radio station combined. Okay, so I was doing more of tv, but they would call me to do some of the promos for some radio and tv shows and I would do all of those at a time. But I still didn't understand what voiceover was until fast forward to 2019. I was working in another radio station. The demand for my voice had increased and some money started coming in, but very little at the time. So I started getting curious to how the industry in voiceover was at the time. So I started asking questions, I took online courses and 2020 was when I got into voiceover officially. So there were different versions of that.  06:40 But late 2019, I took a bold step to find anybody who would need my voice on the internet. So I went on youtube and I found some youtube channels by africans who were doing voiceovers on their youtube channel as to narrate stories on the youtube channel. But they weren't professional voiceover artists. But compared to what I was doing at the time, I could read better. So I would respectfully reach out to them and say Hi, I'm a radio presenter and a voiceover artist here in Nigeria and I don't know if you don't mind, I would love to record your voiceovers.  07:14 At the time I didn't have any idea of exactly how the industry worked, but I just wanted a platform somewhere to put my voice out there. So I reached out to a couple of youtubers and one of them reached back to me and was willing to offer me some stipend monthly for recording voiceovers for a channel, and that was how it started. So the moment I got to realize that I could earn a living from voiceovers and there was opportunity for me to improve and grow my skills, I took it so serious and I started looking for resources and I think it was 2020 and 2021,. I discovered your podcast and it was just a whole new height for me because I was connecting to the voiceover industry globally and that really just opened my mind to more about voiceover. So that's the story of how I got into this.  08:05 - Anne (Host) I love that. So prior to that you were full time in radio.  08:08 - Tolupe (Guest) Yes, radio and TV. I did that for about six years.  08:11 - Anne (Host) Got it. Got it Radio and TV. So where did we're going to fast forward to the podcast? Because you've been doing your podcast for a while now and now you realize that it's a labor of love. It is something that does require like a focused, like passion to creating content that goes out there on a consistent basis. Talk to me about what drew you into the podcast. Were there other podcasts, voiceover podcasts, let's say, specifically in your area, that talked about African voiceovers or voiceover in Nigeria? What prompted you?  08:43 - Tolupe (Guest) Okay, so my first foray into podcasting wasn't because I wanted to podcast at the time, and this was in 2019. So I was working on radio. I needed a medium to save my radio shows right, because people would listen. And radio is a medium yeah, radio is a medium where people just listen once and you can't rewind, you can't listen again on the go. So I had that program I was doing on radio and I wish to archive it. So I was looking for ways to do this on the internet for free, and that was how I stumbled on podcasting, because, of course, you could just upload an audio and it's there.  09:22 Right, right, right. So that was how I started I love that that's so interesting.  09:24 So that was how.  09:24 I started. I love that.  09:25 - Anne (Host) That's so interesting because I have to tell you that I wanted to get into radio but I wasn't, and so I said, well, let me create a podcast  09:32 So it's very interesting, and that was my radio. 09:36 - Tolupe (Guest) Oh yeah, it still feels like radio because I resigned from radio. In 2021 to face Voice of Us full time. Oh, okay, in 2021 to face voiceovers full time.  09:44 Oh, okay, yeah but back to the question of how the podcast came to be. So, prior to the time I was entering into the voiceover industry, there was no voiceover podcast that I had heard of. And 2020, I took a course at the voiceover workshop. That's one of the few voiceover training institutions we have in Nigeria, so I realized that there was more to this. People did this full time. There was an industry around this, so I was curious to know more. Podcasting was already getting more popular at the time, so it just made sense that there should be somebody on the internet podcasting about voiceover. So a friend shared a couple of podcasts and then I saw this article the top 10 voiceover podcasts in the world. Your podcast was a part of them, with a couple of other podcasters that I respect a lot.  10:37 - Anne (Host) Wow, I didn't even know that. That's awesome. 10:40 - Tolupe (Guest) Yeah, and then I checked it out and I just fell in love with it because the style of the presentation you were so real, so relatable. It felt like you were trying to help people, just groom them, feed them and you break down the stings. So I'd stalk to your podcast and I'd listen and listen. And I checked the African space. At the time there was only one lady from South Africa podcasting about voiceover and it was quite refreshing to find her at the time, but not in Nigeria. I didn't find anybody in Nigeria. So I wanted to start because I felt it would be so great for voiceover artists in Nigeria to share their stories.  11:22 So people can know what we're going through, because a lot of things needed to be restructured in the voiceover industry at the time, in my opinion. But there was nothing like that. So from 2020 the idea came, but I had this imposter syndrome because I was like, oh, you're just young into the industry, how do you expect to be the guy to host people and just talk about voiceovers? So I delayed the idea till 2022. And in 2022, nobody was doing it. I'm like, well, you have to do it. So I started the podcast. Prior to that time, I had the experience of podcasting. I'd worked on radio, I understood how to record a deed and put things together, upload a podcast. So I just took all of that knowledge and I started the Everything Voice of Us podcast, the African Perspective, which was for Africans, by Africans, to tell African stories.  12:16 - Anne (Host) I love that, you know. What's so interesting is that I don't know if it's a prerequisite or a requirement to be the expert if you want to start a podcast, because for me, I remember, before I started the podcast I started my VO Peeps group because I had moved across the country and I wanted to kind of get to know the people in my industry, and so I basically started to interview my heroes. I didn't necessarily present myself as the expert at anything, but I was absolutely interested in sharing resources and educating the community, and I think that that is a great way to look at any type of a podcast that you want to start out there, bosses, so that you can share and educate, and I think that is a really great angle to come upon it. And so I think for you, you do a lot of interviews in your podcast and I'm sure people are very eager to get their voices heard as well, and so it's kind of a win-win for both, for both of you?  13:15 - Tolupe (Guest) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.  13:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what would you say has been your biggest I don't know your biggest takeaway from now starting and having a successful podcast. What would you say is your biggest takeaway from now starting and having a successful podcast. What would you say is your biggest takeaway?  13:29 What's your biggest gift from the podcast?  13:29 - Tolupe (Guest) That's a huge question, 13:30 - Anne (Host)  And what's the biggest challenge?  13:33 - Tolupe (Guest) Okay, so first the biggest gift from the podcast and then the biggest challenge.  13:38 I think the biggest gift from the podcast has been connecting me with the world.  13:43 Like the world is so big and there are people waiting to be heard and people wanting to hear more, so my biggest gift is that I've been able to connect with the world and share that network, or the stories that I learned across the way, with people.  14:02 Because of the podcast, a lot of people know me and because of the podcast I can also access a lot of people from different parts of Africa and even outside Africa, and it has helped me to grow such network that many prominent things happening in the voiceover and audio creative space in Africa. I am often involved in most of these things and it's just a very humbling experience for me. So the network is a powerful gift that I've gotten humbling experience for me, so the network is a powerful gift that I've gotten. I think the biggest challenge for podcasting, as you've said earlier, anne, is that it's a should I use the word thankless job, or it's a service, it's something it is. Yeah, it's a very sacrificial thing to do because literally I don't know how it works over there, but we don't get paid in Africa for podcasting.  14:52 - Anne (Host) No, we don't get paid here either, and to get sponsors is very difficult.  14:57 - Tolupe (Guest) It is. It is so. It's something that if you are not convinced, if you are not passionate and selfless, you're going to burn out real quick. So I have invested my time, my energy, my money into this. I had to create a team. I mean, for the first two seasons of the podcast, I was doing this independently and since, in theory, I took on some boss moves. To be honest, you inspired me as well on this episode you did, where you talked about podcasting and you I think it was the beginning of this year you said something about how much you spent on podcasting the previous year.  15:34 It's not cheap, was it like $15,000 or something. It was like $10,000 to $15,000,.  15:39 - Speaker 4 (Ad) Yeah, yeah, and when I heard that I'm like guy, you can do more. People at the top do a lot to get to where they are. So I decided, okay, I'm going to invest more into this. And they are. So I decided, okay, I'm going to invest more into this. And my focus was to help him build a better voice of our industry. That has always been my inspiration to doing many of the things that I do. So, yeah, that's my gift and the biggest challenge, the fact that you're just doing it on your own. But, yeah, it's still a blessing at the end of the day, Right?  16:10 - Anne (Host) Now you mentioned that you thought there needed to be restructuring or you were wanting to be active in restructuring the voiceover industry in Africa. Tell us a little bit more about that. How has it evolved and what do you want to do to restructure that?  16:24 - Tolupe (Guest) Interesting. So, interestingly enough, yesterday I had a conversation with one of the very respected voiceover artists in Nigeria top voiceover artist on my Instagram page where we talked about the evolution of voiceover in Nigeria and I see something very similar to that in Africa. Voiceover for the longest in Africa, has been heavily associated with broadcasting. I believe it's almost the same thing every other place, but the difference is that for a lot of African countries that I have observed, voiceover is still somewhat glued to broadcasting, meaning broadcasters are the ones who officially do voiceovers.  17:04 Not many people come to claim the career to be voiceover artists. It is still being viewed as a part-time side hustle, right. So when I was coming in, of course it started as a part-time stuff for me as well, but I met a few nigerian voice actors, like eric maximus, who I was just referencing, e, and a couple of people like that. These people stood out as full-time voice actors Chilu Lemba, you know, femi Bakes these are my colleagues and I was inspired and also, listening to you, I realized this was possible. So the things that I felt could be restructured is that I needed people to see this more as a business, more as an industry and, gracefully, some people as far back as 1999, 2000 in Nigeria had realized this is what we needed to do, so they created an association in Nigeria at the time called the Association of Voice Over Artists in Nigeria.  18:08 Oh, okay, yeah.  18:10 And this association has been for about 22 years. But unfortunately the growth of the association has seen a lot of challenges because technology came quicker the old era of voiceovers, where everybody had to go to physical studios with the agencies and directors and all of that had gone, but a lot of people here were stuck in that era. So the new era of having a home studio, you know, and working with international rates and how things are being done live sessions, directed ones these things were into the norm over here and I felt that we needed to do better. Our rates weren't standard, as it were, very low at the time when I came, and just the attitude of people towards voiceover is just like a side hustle. People didn't respect the craft. So these were the things that I wished could change.  19:06 Also, if you look at the American space, you had organizations that would fight for voiceover artists and you had resources for voiceover artists the coaches. There were people who had written books, there were award shows and things like that. We didn't have so much of those here. You hardly would find any book written by anybody about voiceover If you go to the internet, any book written by anybody about voiceover. If you go to the internet. There were no like very scanty.  19:35 So I felt like people needed to own this craft, people needed to build the industry, and I had to do what I had to do. There were a few companies, like training institutions that existed already at the time, so I just had had to contribute. I joined the association, joined another association called the African Association of Podcasters and Voice Actors, and together we started forming the policies and the building blocks, creating resources for voiceover artists, for podcasters in Africa, creating events like award shows. So we have the APVA Awards, we have webinars. We started creating these things and I must say it's been an interesting journey, a challenging one as well, but quite an interesting one since then.  20:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  20:18 It's kind of like you're building it from the ground up, which I think is really amazing, and that is something that having knowledge of building things, being a kind of a pioneer in building things as the technology evolves and as our space voiceover industry grows.  20:33 It's a lot of thankless things, a lot of donation of your time, and so I think it's wonderful that you have really kind of gotten in on the ground floor so that you can help to develop policies and guidelines and then also you have a platform that's able to broadcast that out to the world.  20:51 And what I love is, and what I'm hoping, is that our connection here can also help you to be even more globally known, because that, of course, as I mentioned multiple times on my show, the podcast actually cost me money, but it also gives me a lot back in terms of people know who I am, lot back in terms of people know who I am, and so I think we know, and I think you must also know, that that is one of the most important things when you're trying to get your voice out there and when you're trying to become known as a business as well, so that you can survive full-time on voiceover.  21:23 Would you say that you are able to survive full-time on voiceover now, or is it still something that you are building? I know that it took me a few years to do that and you've been working already at it for a few years. Is it something that is a realistic goal for, let's say, I have been thriving as a voiceover artist full-time and I have colleagues who are also doing the same full-time, but we're not so many compared to the US, and the reason for?  22:01 - Tolupe (Guest) If you look at those of us who are doing voiceovers full-time, we are multi-skilled. We are able to record, we're able to edit and produce, we understand acoustics, we have learned about voiceover, we understand marketing as well. So it takes all of the skills to be able to stand and say, oh, I'll do voiceovers full-time, but majority aren't able to do that. Also, looking at the economic challenges and the reality surrounding what it takes to be a full-time voiceover artist, where in a country and largely in many parts of the continent, we don't have stable electricity, so you could be working and you run out of power, and that affects your work, especially if you're In your livelihood.  22:48 Exactly Right. So there's also the challenge of being able to erect or build a home studio for yourself, and also the fact that the equipment could be very expensive. Looking at our exchange rate, when we convert this equipment that costs some maybe $500 or $200 into Naira, whatever currency, it's a lot. So it's very challenging to decide to go full-time into voiceover, but for the few of us who are able to do it, it's also rewarding, especially and I must say, the fact that we get to work with clients out of Nigeria, especially clients from the us, using platforms like voice one, two, three and other pay-to-play sites. They open us up to opportunities with foreign clients and getting paid in dollars has its own advantage. So, yes, it's quite rewarding to work as a full-time voiceover artist, but it's also very challenging for a lot of us.  23:48 - Anne (Host) So what would be your best advice? That you would give aspiring voiceover talents in Nigeria Africa if they're looking to get into the industry. 23:57 - Tolupe (Guest) All right. So for people who are looking to get into the industry, the first thing that I recommend they do is to acquire knowledge. A lot of people still think, oh, you could just record voiceovers on your phone and I'm like, no, it doesn't work that way. So you need to learn, and I'm grateful that we have voiceover institutions in Nigeria and also other parts of Africa. We've got one in South Africa. That's the South Africa Voiceover Academy. In Nigeria, we have Voiceover Workshop Voiceover Academy. There are a couple of them and they've been able to come together to gather the body of knowledge needed for young voice artists to start. So I recommend. Second thing I recommend is podcasts. Listening to podcasts helps to develop the required skill in a sense, because you're listening to experts in the field. Now, I've been learning from you for many years and we had never met and it's been free, so that's the beautiful thing about podcasts.  25:01 It is a beautiful thing, isn't it? Yeah, it's absolutely free.  25:05 So I encourage people because you might not be able to afford hundreds of dollars to have Anganguza or any other top voiceover artists, so listen to podcasts. I recommend that as well. The third thing is to practice and take the big step, because I've also been coaching people in voiceover for a while. I realized that oftentimes they come, they train but they don't implement. There's this fear and imposter syndrome of calling yourself a voiceover artist. They hardly make the bold steps, they don't do demos and put themselves out there. They're waiting to be perfect, they're waiting to get it all figured out. So they compare themselves to someone like me or other colleagues of mine or people ahead of me and they're like I don't have what it takes, I don't sound like you just yet. So I always encourage them Start now, when nobody even really knows you so much. Make the mistakes Grow, because we all started somewhere. We didn't start perfect. So these are the things that I'll encourage them.  26:07 - Anne (Host) And I also think and this is kind of my big thing when I have students that say, well, I don't sound like I'm not there yet I'm like in reality and I think you must know, because you've had such a lengthy experience in being on camera and also in radio and podcasts when you connect with someone, nobody's really listening to how you.  26:27 I mean, yeah, we can sound good, but in reality that is only like a temporary, fleeting thing, that, okay, it sounds good, it sounds clear, I understand you, but when we connect, we connect on an emotional level and that really comes into the storytelling, that comes into that point of view that we're able to express. And I think that podcasting helps us to do that, like, especially if it's a conversation between you and I. But I use those skills in my voiceover to connect with that theoretical client and that's really where it becomes the most important. So how important would you say the connection in storytelling is for, let's say, the current trend and styles that are happening in your area? I mean because globally, I think we all need to be able to tell stories. But I'm just curious in terms of locally, when people hire you, are they hiring you for that big, deep, booming voice? Or are they also hiring you for that storytelling capability?  27:18 - Tolupe (Guest) That's a very good question, because in the continent, especially in Nigeria, I'm going to take Nigeria we have been very influenced by the Western cultures the things we see from movies in hollywood, the cartoons that we've seen growing up, so these has heavily influenced how we tell our stories in the media. There's still a lot of true storytelling, I must say, but when people think about voiceover, a lot of young people think about Disney, they think about all the Cartoon Network stuff and what that affects is the accent. So they're tempted to want to sound like the kids they watched growing up. They think that's what voiceover is. And it doesn't mean that's not what voiceover isn't. It just means the people you see on your screens.  28:14 They're telling stories that are relatable to them. It's their local stories. The animation you watch, even though it's fiction, but the communication, the nuances, you know all of those expressions. They're very akin to wherever they come from. Over here there's a way we tell our stories, the way we crack our jokes, the lingua. It's very local. So it's a lot of work to try to explain to upcoming talents that see, your accent is good enough yourself.  28:50 The way you sound is good enough. It's good enough you are enough.  28:54 You don't have to sound like barbie. You don't have to sound like right.  28:58 - Anne (Host) I'm so glad that you like this. It gets me emotional actually. I'm so glad that you like this. It gets me emotional actually, because I'm so glad that you said that, because it's important for not just locally you, it's important for us, it's important for the world to hear those stories. Right, it's important for us to understand you and how you tell stories, because it may be different than how I tell the story, but it's certainly very interesting to me.  29:19 You know what I mean.  29:25 And it's something that I feel I could benefit from hearing and I could enjoy it and it could be educational, it can be entertaining and I think just getting that experience and that culture and that storytelling is so important to a global audience.  29:35 Yes, absolutely, which I?  29:36 think is important to your business, which?  29:38 is so important to your business, so I think for anyone and I love how you talk about the imposter syndrome, which I think we all have.  29:44 I think that's a global thing, right? Everybody has imposter syndrome I still think, at the very heart of it, the fact that we can share and that we can communicate and we can connect with one another, that is something that is very much wanted and desired.  30:03 It may not be, as, let's say, marketable in certain places yet. Right, because even in America there's a lot of places that say they want the conversational connection, but yet a lot of times what you hear on television turns out to be something different because of whoever's directing you, whoever is hiring what they hear in their head. Right, Because they could have grown up with those kind of announcer kind of broadcast sort of sound and that's who ended up directing you and that's how the commercial sounds or that's how whatever it is that you're doing sounds. But I do believe that when it comes to people that really want that connection, that engagement with their brand, that they're going to hopefully continually go more and more into the storytelling aspect and it becomes less about your voice and more about how you can reach that person that's listening to you at the other end of the mic in reality.  30:52 So, yeah, I think it's all about the connection. So let's talk a little bit about any type of, let's say, memorable story or project that showcased your unique storytelling. Is there anything that you can talk about that is out there on a global level that can really speak to your unique storytelling?  31:14 - Tolupe (Guest) Now that you say memorable, I've done a couple of voiceovers for different brand. I think the most recent that I did was for coca-cola. So I've done a couple of voiceovers for different brands. I think the most recent that I did was for Coca-Cola, so I've done a couple of them. I think the two most memorable would be getting cast on one of the biggest animations to come out of Nigeria, which would actually be out next year, 2025. And that animation is called Iyanu. It's going to be on Cartoon Network on.  31:42 Showmatch in Africa. So I'm one of the cast and it was such an honor to be on that because it's not just a cartoon for the world to enjoy, but it captures African stories. The entire cast were Nigerian, so we spoke the true Nigerian accent. It was quite a mix of traditional and youth, friendly and young. You know all of that, so I'm happy to be on that. I play a character called Shiju, which people would come to find out much more about later. Then the other one would be.  32:16 Recently I did a voiceover for a friend. She started this podcast and I recorded the voiceover and I just something about that voiceover stood out for me. It's on a podcast anyway, so, um, it's memorable to me personally. It's not like it's for a global brand of some sort, but it's just something that when I think about that particular voiceover maybe because the way I read it it was just so real and I just felt everything in that script Very powerful story, very touching experience. It's titled the First and Last Time I Saw my Parents Dance and that story was just so powerful. So, yeah, that works for me too. It's on podcasts and platforms.  33:02 - Anne (Host) Awesome. Well, I'll be connecting those links up in the show notes for any of those bosses that are looking for more information. So tell us what's next for you Any exciting projects on the way or other goals that you're working toward. Any other associations you're going to pioneer. Any other associations you're going to?  33:21 - Tolupe (Guest)  Next up for me is my youtube channel. Already I have the podcast running on youtube, but I am planning on creating a youtube channel where I talk more about voiceover extensively, particularly for Nigerians and africans my extension, so that is going to be coming up next year. I also am working on some online courses. Although right now I teach voiceovers, I mentor people one-on-one. I also teach voiceovers with other voiceover institutions of learning in Nigeria, but I realized that there's a lot of demand out there and I can't always be physically there to teach over and over and over. It's very demanding. So I'm putting together an online course that will be available, and my website is also in the works. So by January 2025, everything will be ready. So these are the things I'm working on.  34:13 - Anne (Host) Well, that's quick, that's like next month. Yeah, I love it. So tell our bosses where they can find you, where they can learn more about you. Follow you on socials.  34:25 - Tolupe (Guest) Okay, so my Instagram handle is tcode70. That's T-C-O-D-E underscore 70. My YouTube channel is I am tcode70. So you can find me on YouTube and on TikTok I'm also tcode underscore 70 TikTok. Tcode underscore 70. On X, which is formerly Twitter, my website will be out really soon will be, I mean, launched so my website is iamtcode.com Iamtcode.com.  34:57 - Anne (Host) Love it, love it. And that's coming January, January 25. So now I'm hoping that I myself am releasing a new website that is supposed to be out in January of 2025 as well. So it's just a little refresh of my brand.  35:10 So  oh my gosh, it has been so much fun chatting with you and I am keeping my fingers crossed for Sunday, which is coming up in a few days, to find out about that Sova's nomination. But the way I feel if you're nominated award nominated is just as good as award winning in my book, and actually even that is subjective. But yeah, my fingers are crossed for you and I'll be listening. I've got a couple nominations myself that I'm going to be you know. We'll see if that works out and in the meantime, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you and I want to actually check up with you next year again so that we can reconnect and see what other amazing things you've done, because you are definitely a VO boss for sure, and it's been a pleasure chatting with you today.  35:56 - Tolupe (Guest)  you so much, and it's been a pleasure chatting with you too, and thank you for inspiring me and millions of others, because, yeah, a lot of people are still going to listen to this. Podcast is a platform that people can listen to many years to come, so thank you so much, Anne.  36:12 - Anne (Host) No problem, all right, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Tico to myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye.  36:28 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes Anne Ganguza and Andy Roth delve into the nuances of voice acting from the perspective of a seasoned casting director. They explore strategies for success in auditions, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and making genuine choices. Listeners will gain insights into the casting process, understanding the client's vision, and the significance of following instructions. The episode addresses the impact of AI on the industry while reinforcing the irreplaceable value of human connection and unique interpretation. Anne and Andy also discuss practical advice for creating compelling auditions, handling limited information, and cultivating a resilient mindset in the face of industry challenges.   00:04 - Anne (Host) Hey, what's up bosses? Join our VI peeps today and gain access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops designed to enhance your voiceover skills. From industry insights to practical techniques, our workshops cover a wide range of topics. As a VI peeps member, you'll also receive a 15% discount on current workshops and free monthly workshops to keep your skills sharp. Don't miss out on this opportunity. Sign up for VI Peeps membership now at vopeeps.com    00:39 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.    00:58 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest Andy Roth with me here today. Andy has a career that has spAnned three decades and he is an award-winning casting director, voice director, producer and writer and is known for you Would Do it Too, too Hot to Handle Valeria, the Animal People, the Forest, my gosh this list Andy is going on and the Peculiar Adventures of Willoughby Starr. He's also served as casting director on over a thousand commercials. That is a lot of commercials. So welcome to the podcast, Andy. It's so wonderful to have you.    01:40 - Andy (Host) Thanks, I'm excited to be here. Thank you.    01:43 - Anne (Host) Gosh, I met you not so long ago and I'm not quite sure why it took so long for me to meet you, but I thank Jessica Blue for introducing us because I feel like I've known you forever and you're just amazing and I want the bosses to know how amazing you are as well. And so let's talk about you and your long, spanning career of gosh over a thousand commercials and all these productions. It's amazing. How did you get started?    02:11 - Andy (Host) Honestly and yes, I think I have worked on more commercials than any human being should probably ever really be exposed to. I got started in this business actually back in 1994. A friend of a friend heard about an opening for an assistant at a talent agency which was called CED at the time. Now it's called CESD and it was in the voiceover department and so I became an assistant there, did that for several years, then became their in-house casting director and did that till 2007 and then left on my own and I actually I didn't even know when I started that voiceover was its own thing.    02:49 - Anne (Host) I was going to ask you, did you get the experience on the job as you were casting?    02:53 - Andy (Host) Yeah, like I mean, of course I always knew about commercial voiceover and animation and things like that, but I didn't know how vast it was until I was really in the heart of it and I just I fell in love with it.    03:05 - Anne (Host) I can't imagine. I mean and so how has the industry changed and evolved over the years?    03:10 - Andy (Host) for you, Well, it's gotten bigger. So many changes I mean, it's been 30 years since I went through a couple of strikes. It was the explosion of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing, of the non-union entity, which has become a whole other thing. Yeah, it's become its own area of the business. I've discovered that voiceover is anytime there's something new. Voiceover is the first thing there. Oh, how interesting. Anytime there's a new piece of technology, somebody wants to put a voice on it. Siri's a voiceover. Yeah, Alexa is a voiceover. Holograms have voiceovers. Augmented reality, virtual reality. When I started in this business, it was basically 13 chAnnels and people really mostly only cared about four of them. Yes, yes.    03:58 - Anne (Host) I hear you on that.    04:00 - Andy (Host) And then cable became a thing and you had this box with three numbers on it so you could have 999 chAnnels. And now with streaming, it's just icons. I mean it's unlimited. It goes on forever. And people have discovered content from other countries that's exploded and become a thing and voices are everywhere. We are the first area of the business to adapt and change and we're sticky Once we're in a place voiceover is just going to be there.    04:32 - Anne (Host) I love that. I love that, and especially because you've been in the industry for so long and we talked about, you know, the explosion, like the technology explosion too, I mean, with first it was all union, then non-union kind of came aboard, because of the pay to place, I'm sure, and the online casting, and now we're under the threat of AI. But I guess I'd love to hear your thoughts on that, because here you are with all these wonderful, hopeful things that you're saying about voiceover, which I love and I like to tell my bosses out there as well. I mean, I think there's always a place for human voiceover.    05:00 - Andy (Host) What are your?    05:00 - Anne (Host) thoughts on that.    05:02 - Andy (Host) I think there are certain areas of the business that may be a little safer from AI, especially animation. People love to go to cons to meet the voice of their character. You can't really replace that with AI. Is it 100% safe? Maybe not, but there are people dealing with it, fortunately, and AI does a lot of good things for the world too. I mean, I've seen programs where people who have no ability to speak can speak because AI helps them. It helps search engines. I mean there is definitely a place for AI. But as far as the possibility of replacing humans in this business, there are people out there that are concerned about it, that are helping, and fortunately they've been on it since it really became apparent it could be a thing. I'm optimistic. I'm realistic in that there will be some areas where AI is going to be there. It already is, but I'm very, very optimistic about protections.    06:02 - Anne (Host) Me too, me too.    06:03 I really am. There's a lot of people fighting and, with the strike going on, which you know, fingers crossed, people are listening. I mean, I think what it is is we have voices and hopefully they're being heard, because a lot of people out there, like back in the beginning, when I got into voiceover, like what is that? Even, and even when you said you started, like what is that? Even. I think bringing awareness to the global community about voiceover and what we do as creatives and how important the creative process is, I think is really impactful in helping get us protections as we move forward. And I am a tech girl and I believe there is a lot of space for AI in the world, but I also believe there's a lot of space for human and human engagement and human creativity and I think that people crave that, no matter how good. And let's talk about this because an AI voice is perfect, and so you and I also with my students, we talk a lot about like I don't want a perfect voice when I'm directing my students.    07:02 I mean I want to hear that imperfection because that makes it real and that makes me engage and connect with it. Let's talk a little bit about that, about really, what should voice actors be doing now to really separate themselves from the crowd and also from AI?    07:19 - Andy (Host) Well, honestly, being a presence having a discussion, you don't connect to AI the way you connect to another human when it reaches its pinnacle and it's really ready to go, which it's not totally now. But the good thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. The bad thing about AI is it's going to do whatever you ask it to do whenever you ask it to do it. There are some moments that have come out of projects I've worked on. I mean, I've voice directed I think like 22 shows now that are on the air. The great thing is you give a direction and the human being interprets it their way, and sometimes you're right on the money and you're really simpatico and it's exactly what I asked for. Thank you. Sometimes we figure things out together. Sometimes they come up with something they thought was what I asked for but was actually a lot better.    08:13 When you get two independent minds with human experience, with a life, with a history of interacting with other human beings, there's a thought process there that, at least at the moment and honestly, in my opinion, for the foreseeable future, can't really be duplicated. I mean, ai is intelligence, but it is artificial and we cast based on human interaction. We connect with roles we direct. This whole industry is built on human interaction. So, to a certain point, yes, ai can get things going and smooth out maybe some of the bumps, but it's not really going to be the base on which this industry is built for human beings to connect to other human beings. That being said, not everybody sees it this way, so be vigilant and be aware of it. But as far as how people can stand out honestly, the best way for people to stand out is to be themselves. There are a lot of people I know that send me auditions that I can hear they're trying to be what they think the right thing is. Yes, absolutely.    09:19 And if I've asked you to audition, you're already the right thing. I don't know if you'll get the job, but I know that you can do the job. And I've had auditions that people didn't book lead to other jobs that they didn't even audition for. That actually just happened on a show I am on right now. I cast somebody and he was like did I audition for this? I'm like well, sort of you auditioned, like two shows ago.    09:43 - Anne (Host) I love that. Yeah, I think that's very encouraging for those actors out there who it's such a personal thing, right.    09:50 When you submit an audition, it's so hard not to get personally attached to it or feel like, oh gosh, like I really, really want this, and but then you don't hear anything or you may never get feedback and then ultimately that is, I think, when people are first starting out in this industry. It's something very hard for them to kind of let go of because it is such maybe a personal connection. But I love that you're talking about bringing yourself and the human element to the audition, because that's really what makes you unique. I'll even tell my students, because I do a lot of work in the long format narration like corporate and e-learning, and most people feel like that shouldn't have like a point of view or a feeling, but most absolutely it does, because I tell people to think about like okay, if you're going to do an e-learning module like what was it when you were going to school that made someone your favorite teacher?    10:37 Like did you have a subject that maybe you hated, but then all of a sudden, the teacher was amazing and then that's what made it interesting. And that's the type of voice that I want to come out. And there's always a point of view in that, believe it or not, it's a point of view that says I care about you as a student, that I care that you learn, and so that comes through in the voice and if you're just reading the words, or even if you're just reading the words in the sound in which you hear them all the time, which typically is very robotic for a lot of e-learning, I go on and on about why that happened for so many years. Because nobody chucked us on it and nobody was an actual teacher.    11:09 And I say that because I was a teacher in front of the classroom for 20, some odd years. But still, even if you think in what you hear, I have so many students that say, but I hear it on the commercial, it sounds like this and I'm like, yeah, but that might not have been what got them cast. It might be at the moment that someone directed them to be. And even you, if I ask, if you're directing someone, do you not only sometimes have to like talk to the client to see?    11:33 if that's what the client is thinking is good, and even what you might be like, this is great. This actor's got it nailed. The client might want something different.    11:41 - Andy (Host) Well, I work with the actor for the client. The actor is sort of the most profound connection artistically. That's the relationship that ultimately creates a thing. But I do work for the client and ultimately what they want.    11:57 I kind of think of it like this: this is a hive mind and there's a queen bee somewhere in an office with a checkbook and the rest of us are workers trying to make sure the hive is ready before it rains. So I very, very much listen to the client, want to do what the client says. I'm very much back and forth with the client. If it's a dubbed show that I'm directing, I am constantly because I could get a read that I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like that's brilliant, that's amazing, I love it. And then I'm like let's compare it to the original, because if it doesn't match or do the same thing, I'm like I love it, but we have to shelve it and we have to do what the client wants.    12:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) But at the end of the day.    12:35 - Andy (Host) The client has built a container that they want filmed with humAnness and it is my job to fill it up, and that happens just through us connecting. Part of what I listen for on an audition is do I get you? And I don't mean like, are you a Pisces? Or something like that. I mean Long walks on the beach, right exactly Pina coladas getting caught in the rain, not that I have a problem with pina coladas or getting caught in theaters, or long walks on the beach.    13:05 - Anne (Host) Long walks on the beach.    13:06 - Andy (Host) Let's be fair, but I do feel like I want to feel like there's a human there, because that makes me feel like I know what's going to happen in the studio, and I don't want any of us to do more work than we absolutely have to do. I want us to connect, do something, play with it, do it again, move on, and it needs to be within the container that the client has given me to fill. Does that make sense?    13:29 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. Then if there are casting specs, and someone is paying attention to the casting specs, which a lot of times. Casting specs sometimes seem fairly generic and sometimes not. How much should they be paying attention to that and trying to like create that versus bringing their most human self to that read?    13:49 - Andy (Host) Well, I will say this about casting specs and yeah, sometimes they kind of suck and I'm sorry about that, but they are designed to help you. They are coming from somebody's mind to kind of get you to the place where you can be you in the relevant context. Sometimes they're just not actable, sometimes they are a little generic, sometimes they're not understandable, but more often I think they are. And even if we don't realize every nuance, just reading them often will get us to an emotional place where we can be ourselves, because happy you is very different than sarcastic you or sad you or angry you. I say, always pay attention to them, always read them. But If you can't make a choice based on them, then maybe sort through or throw them away, but they are always there to help you.    14:42 I mean, I do know some people that are like, oh, I never read the specs. I don't think that's the best way to go. Sure, yeah, always. But I mean again, you don't have to be beyond completely throwing them away. They're garbage or they're just completely not you, but they weren't paying attention to. Also, sometimes we put things in there like naming conventions, if I say I want the file named role underscore full name.    15:12 And I get something that's named a different way Well before I've even listened to it. You've told me you don't really care what I have to say. So yeah, I would say, always pay attention to them.    15:21 - Anne (Host) I like how you turned that into the message right.    15:24 So a lot of people I'll be like I don't understand why I will have my students name files a particular way, because they submit their homework via Dropbox and they have to name it a certain way. And if they don't, I spend half of their session looking for their file and what happens is they seem to think I'm insane for asking them to name it a certain way. And I'm like, in reality, there's a method to my madness here. I mean because if you audition, you're going to have to name that file specifically the way they're asking, otherwise it's going to get tossed to the side. I like how you mentioned that. Yeah, you've already shown that you have respect for the process by naming the file correctly, and it shouldn't be a task to do that. And if it is a task, then I think maybe you should get some computer training that can help you to do that task and to pay attention, because that's part of our job when we're submitting.    16:14 - Andy (Host) I mean, you're going to name it something.    16:16 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, why not name it what we're asked?    16:19 - Andy (Host) You're not just going to send me a file with nothingmp3. Also, I find that some of these rules, although they may not be the creative process, they may not be the most fun thing, they actually do help their creative process. I was talking to somebody who is an on-camera person. They're working on their own project and it's great. And I said have you ever interned or worked at a studio? You know, it's California, there's no shortage of them. If you can't intern, well, I think that that would get in the way of my creativity and I don't want to. And it's like okay, I understand that, because you'll be in their world with their creativity, but nobody writes a screenplay and says I can't wait to gaff this.    17:08 I'm so excited to hire security and craft services. Working at a place where all of these things are just laid out, where, okay, I have to get security, I have to get craft services, I have to go file permits, I have to do all this. Working at a place that's going to make the part you don't really want to do easy, is going to free you up to focus on the creative and it's actually going to make you creatively freer because, whether it's a horror movie or a romance or a comedy, getting a permit is getting a permit. It's the same and getting used to saying, okay, I know how they want to do this. It's the reason I have people name certain things is because often I want all characters grouped together.    17:44 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely yeah. There's a good reason for that, yeah.    17:47 - Andy (Host) Right, and if yeah, like you said, if I have to go searching through it, you made my job harder finding you than it was for you. To just name it what I asked you.    17:55 - Anne (Host) Don't give you homework, like I shouldn't be giving you homework.    17:58 - Andy (Host) If I'm submitting an audition, it should not be homework for you to find it and to listen to it, and yeah, absolutely, and I just may not do it.    18:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you know you're that student that sits in the back of the class. I mean, I already know this about you, having met you briefly, but those are the most fun students.    18:18 Those are the creative ones that usually you know they're geniuses in the back because they're causing all kinds of trouble, but you don't want to give your talent agent or your casting director or whoever it is you're submitting your audition to. You don't want to give them homework. So what other things would you recommend are strategies for maybe creating a great audition or getting to the humAnness and the point of view that you're looking for in terms of this is the actor I want to cast.    18:45 - Andy (Host) Don't try to get it right. Don't deliberately get it wrong, like if the role obviously needs you laughing. Don't cry uncontrollably to stand out, because you will stand out.    18:55 - Anne (Host) It's got to make sense.    18:56 - Andy (Host) Yeah, you will stand out, just not necessarily in the way that you want to, but being free. So many people hang so much on every audition it's like, oh, this is the job, and if I don't get this job I failed. And that's not true. Every audition can get you more auditions. An audition is really a way to establish or reaffirm a relationship, and you'll get opportunities and jobs in this business. For one reason Somebody wants you to have that opportunity, or that job.    19:30 It's not who you know in this business, it's who knows you. Ah, I like that in an audition. I mean there's nothing anybody can teach you that's going to guarantee you're going to book everything. But being yourself making simple choices, Okay, the first line is oh my God, I'm so happy, I'm going to make a simple choice, I'm going to smile, I'm going to be happy, I'm going to listen back to it, see if it needs more or less, maybe something else, but trying to be like what did they mean by? You know, let me stand out, let me get? You don't know enough at the audition point to stand out. You haven't heard the other auditions. You don't know about the conversations the casting director's having with the client. You don't know who else is cast. You don't know. You don't know any of the parameters. Sometimes somebody wants somebody who's done a million jobs because of a time frame or there's a relationship.    20:22 Sometimes we specifically don't want that person because that person has been heard on eight other projects. You don't know any of that. What you can know is that if we've reached out to you with an audition, it's because there's already something there that lets us at least believe we know who you are. I don't need some weird ethereal happy, I just need your happy. It's also not about not needing to be directed. It's about us getting you so we can ask can you be?    20:52 - Anne (Host) happier. Can you be less happy?    20:53 - Andy (Host) Yeah, keep it simple, there's a thing.    20:57 I call the four disagreements yeah, if you want to serve the script, don't worry about serving the script. If you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right. If you want to play the moments, don't worry about playing the moments. And if you want to make the casting director happy, don't worry about making the casting director happy. Make the choice or choices that you feel are right for the script, for the context and any other information you may have.    21:23 Was somebody that I felt was really, really right for a role. I thought they were great, they were perfect for it. I read them, I gave my little write-up about why I thought they were terrific, sent it off. The director really, really liked them and it came down to that person and one other and the other person ultimately got it. That's what the director was feeling and it was a great person. I mean, the person who got it was terrific and I liked them and I worked with them all the time. But I was like, not the way I would have gone, but fine. So season two.    22:08 I ended up directing season two and I called this actor and I said do you mind if I submit you? And they said sure, what do you want me to read? I said I don't. I want to resubmit your audition from last season. And they said but it didn't get me the job. I said no, but there's different brains involved now and we'll see. And the person who booked it last time can't do it again because they did it last time and it's a different role. And I resubmitted it with the same write-up and they ended up getting a lead role. So we hang so much on everything that we micromanage, we microanalyze. Don't look for information you don't have and not going to have. Say this is what I feel is right. I'm not an idiot. I know the business, I know my choices are right. I sometimes book. I get asked to audition again. Do them, and I'm not going to say forget about it, because that's not always how brains work.    23:03 - Anne (Host) Try to forget about it. Yeah, exactly, don't let it mentally hassle with your yeah yeah, don't schedule an extra therapy session for it or anything. Yeah, exactly.    23:12 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I mean it'll be in your head and it's fine, but know that your audition is out there working for you. Just be you. Make simple choices, things you know you can do, things you feel are right and do them.    23:24 - Anne (Host) Now here's a question which I know is on a lot of people that are just getting into the industry, or students that are just getting into the industry. It's about the lack of. They're like the words are on the page and they don't make sense to the student, because they're talking about some visual that's probably already been done or it's in the process, or the person that wrote the copy knew what visuals were going to be along with it. But yet here's the copy, but yet no storyboard. There's no other information except for maybe like casting specs about oh, we want female age, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then they're like well, how do I interpret this? How do I even because I'll okay, who are you? Who are you talking to? You know, create that scene. And when I'm just like well, look, as long as you're committed right, you're committed to those words and they make sense, you can make up whatever scene you want that allows you to be authentic and genuine with it.    24:15 And sometimes I'm very surprised at stuff that I've done. When I look at what comes out afterwards, I'm like whoa, okay, I didn't expect that. So why is that? Are we a step in the process where we don't get fed more information, like is there a reason why there's not more storyboards or there's not more you know what I mean information given at the time of the audition, or just curious?    24:36 - Andy (Host) I never asked anybody this and I will say this. It sometimes is as frustrating for me. I would love for the actor to have everything the actor needs, but sometimes you can't. Sometimes projects are secretive. Sometimes there actually is a storyboard. I'm just not allowed to tell you. Sometimes there's information about what show it is or what the product is. I remember when Apple first started advertising the iPhones and we were casting in person because it was a long time ago and we weren't even allowed to put iPhone on the door. We weren't even allowed. It would be secret product, you know, and people would be like oh, a phone that does stuff.    25:17 - Anne (Host) But we weren't allowed to say it.    25:19 - Andy (Host) So there'd be like on the door it would say like jet plane or freezer burn or just some random word, so you would know where you should go. I worked on a show recently where there were these athletes going to this really important game and one of them is looking out the window and it's starting to rain and he's nervous and he's like, wow, it's raining out there. And the coach looks at him and goes, yeah, but it's raining for the other team too. Whatever information you don't have, neither does anybody else.    25:54 Whatever problems you have, everybody else it's raining for the other team too Sure.    25:59 - Anne (Host) Sure, I love that. It's so nice for you to validate that you know, what.    26:03 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I mean.    26:03 - Anne (Host) Because I think a lot of times people are like but why, how? Come I don't know anymore. Why can't?    26:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I.    26:08 - Anne (Host) I said it's very rare in any of my jobs in all these years that I've ever gotten a storyboard. I mean after. I get it maybe I'll get a storyboard. There'll be times I'll get storyboards with a commercial audition, but I think it's gotten less over the years. Yeah.    26:23 - Andy (Host) You get what people feel you need, and they're not always right.    26:26 - Anne (Host) And a lot of times they change again. Yeah.    26:30 - Andy (Host) And it's very much. You get what you get. You don't get upset, but you will always have everything you need to do your job. You may not feel it, it may not be as much as you want, but it is enough to get you to a place where you can come up with specifics. Even if you make them up, you can come up with a.    26:50 - Anne (Host) I'm happy, I'm sad. I'm a wise ass.    26:53 - Andy (Host) This business. We do everything we can to give you everything you need to do your job and only be as specific as you can. Don't go to a place where you're making up a whole scenario so you can feel more complete as a performer that I'm not going to get. Does that make sense?    27:12 - Anne (Host) Yeah.    27:13 - Andy (Host) Know that when we send this out, we are ready to fill in these blanks in the job Right.    27:19 - Anne (Host) And usually, if I'm not mistaken, the voiceover is probably one of the tail end of the things to be filling in, or no Is? That not a correct Like. Usually the media is finished, the things have been written. Usually there's visuals somewhere along the line that have been made and then the last thing to be cast is a voice, but maybe not when we're talking on camera. I mean, that could be. That's a different part of the process.    27:40 - Andy (Host) Yeah, well, I mean, I would say probably, I mean anytime there's an actor involved. A lot of work has been done before. Yeah, before we even start talking to actors, and a lot of work's going to be done after the actors are gone. So, yeah, on camera, yeah, of course you're on set for a little bit longer probably than voiceover, but, yeah, often things are in place and we do our best to ask is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, yeah, but there's a lot that happens before anybody asked me to do anything.    28:12 - Anne (Host) There's a lot that happens before the mixer's involved or anything yeah, yeah, I think it's good to know that we're only one tiny piece of like an entire project and sometimes, I think, in our own little worlds. We tend to forget that in our booths right. We're like oh the voiceover is like front and center and in reality there's so many other components to probably creating this project or commercial or movie or whatever it is.    28:38 There's so many other parts and we get so wrapped up in just our part of it that I think we have to realize that we're just a cog in the wheel so to speak, it's an important cog I mean, the machine won't work without it. Exactly.    28:50 - Andy (Host) But we do mesh. It's a great analogy, metaphor simile, simile, it's a great simile. Yeah, right, I thought I was an English teacher. There you go, simile, there you go. Oh, I love it. I love it, it's a great, yeah, simile.    29:10 Yeah, because, like I said, we're all worker bees yes, yeah, I know that we have a lot of the same issues too. There's stuff I can't know, there are things I'm not allowed to be a part of, and there's a lot of processes. So, yeah, just do your job. Don't worry about what we want or what somebody else is looking for or somebody else is hiding. We're not, we're not hiding anything. We just need you to be you, to know what that cog is.    29:26 And again, I have anxiety attacks when I get a job, sometimes because there's just so much stuff I haven't gotten to sit down with it yet. I haven't seen a script, I don't have a cast. Sometimes I don't have all the episodes of a show or all the spots in the commercial campaign. There's a lot I don't know either. And I understand it can be isolating. It could feel lonely, you know, when you're alone in your booth it could feel like everybody's working more than you, everybody's auditioning more than you, everybody in the industry does have that. It's been a few weeks. Am I ever going to work again?    30:02 - Anne (Host) Do I belong in this industry? It just becomes very dramatic sometimes.    30:06 - Andy (Host) I state something. I offered a potato chip. Did that offend somebody? And we spiral out. Every single person involved does it. Oh, nice to know, I'm not alone, right, I mean, because even after all these, years.    30:20 - Anne (Host) Sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way. I swear that, like everything that we do, sometimes it's so hard not to get those thoughts in the way I swear that, like everything that we do, is sometimes it's not a God given talent.    30:28 Well it is, but it's the most important thing, is our mental state about it all, because it can affect so much I mean the fact is is that we can just like let those feelings and ideas spin around in our head and be like oh my God, did I do something to offend? Am I good enough? Am I? You know all that talk in your head is the stuff that I think is probably some of the most dangerous talk and things that you could have as a voice actor.    30:52 - Andy (Host) Yeah, it's. It's like Schrodinger's audition the audition is simultaneously good, bad and not submitted. There you go.    31:02 - Anne (Host) I love it. Oh my goodness. So then I would say, with the thousands of commercials that you have directed or produced, what? Would you say, is the cast that you've cast? What's the best thing a talent can do? In hopes of maybe getting cast. And what's the worst thing that you've seen a talent do that wouldn't get them cast?    31:22 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I don't know that I'm going to say the worst thing.    31:24 - Anne (Host) Or yeah, maybe not a smart thing. So yeah, that kind of tends to be pretty specific to a person.    31:30 - Andy (Host) And if it's the worst thing I've seen, it means probably only one person did it and so I'm not going to tell, I would say, the most probably impractical thing that.    31:39 I've seen people do is be like, okay, I'm going to be the person who is going to get the job. I'm going to try to fool you into thinking that I'm the person you're really going to hire, and so I'll get a read and somebody's clearly doing this and it's like well, I know it's a car commercial, but I didn't ask for that and that person is available and they work for what you work for.    32:04 If I reached out to you, I don't want an impression of that person or people that change their voice into a better version of you know, it's like if I called somebody because they have a certain depth to their voice.    32:19 - Anne (Host) This is my voiceover voice, right, yeah?    32:21 - Andy (Host) And if I haven't asked you to do that and I might I mean there are things but if I haven't asked you to do that, don't do that. It may even turn into that at the end of the day.    32:32 - Anne (Host) Isn't that the truth, right? It may turn into that at the end. That's what. I end up getting is people be like. But I listened to the commercial and it sounds just like this and I'm like but that doesn't mean that that performance got you the job.    32:43 - Andy (Host) Yeah, I've had people come up to me. Andy, I heard that spot, I could have done that. Why didn't you ask me to do that? And I'm like is it your first day in the business, have you never? It's like nobody did that. The person who booked it didn't do that and the client liked the director is directing and they call the client and the client's like can we hit this word a little bit more? And I feel like we're not pushing.    33:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I always say that the person who's actually making decisions like it depends on, like what they hear in their head, right. And maybe they're a 65 year old person that's been listening to announcery commercials all their lives and that's what they hear in their head. And that's what ends up getting directed, or whatever it is. I think our voices become a product of the years and years that we've had and your musical, I know this right Of hearing things right.    33:31 And so that's why when we go in and we say this is what we think you want to hear, because we're mimicking over a period of years that's why in our head there's a certain melody Also. I think there's a certain melody also. I think there's a scientific and tell me and if you think I'm right, I think there's a scientific like reason why people, when they read words, they read them in a melody. That's very expected, because I can tell you exactly like.    33:52 Here's a paragraph, I can mimic exactly what you're going to do. If you're not thinking about like acting and you're just thinking about reading along a melody, I know that melody already and it's funny because I'm right like 99.9% of the time with that melody. And what is that? That's a scientific study that you read words in a certain melody.    34:11 - Andy (Host) Well, I'm not a neuroscientist, Damn it Andy, why? Not, you're everything else. That was my fallback, that was plan B, just in case yeah, I mean you've got that medical background. But the brain doesn't think in words, the brain doesn't think in images. The brain thinks in little synaptic flashes, billions and billions and billions of them. You're sounding like a scientist, thank you.    34:36 Thank you very much For anybody who's like questioned me on that, which, fine, by all means question. My answer is what's the word that keeps you balanced? What's the word that keeps your heart beating? What's the? Your brain doesn't need words. Your brain just does little flashy things like a microchip. Your brain's basically a macrochip, holds, I think, about 10 terabytes of information and it processes it certain ways. So when you look at a word, it doesn't actually see a word, it sees an image that sparks a whole sequence of synaptic flashes. The people that organized those words in the form of a script or a book or whatever learned the language. The way you learned the language. They learned it by hearing it. And even if it's your second language, yeah, okay, maybe there's some schooling, but at the end of the day, you're really learning it conversationally, by hearing people do it. So your brain doesn't just process. Okay, this is this sequence of words with a dot or a line at the end of it, or a squiggle or something.    35:36 It actually processes the whole thing as a rhythm. The rhythm that was born into it will probably be the rhythm that comes out. And yeah, is it 100%? No, sometimes there's typos, sometimes things are weird, but it's also why, like, there's this thing online where there's a whole paragraph and every word has first, last and middle letter in the right place, but the rest of the words are just jumbled.    36:03 - Anne (Host) Oh yeah, and we know what that.    36:04 - Andy (Host) yeah, I've seen those and you can still read them, you can still get the rhythm, you can still do all that. So acting is a physics term is one of the things I say in my class. Acting is doing something that has an effect on a receiver. You say something, it affects somebody else. It hits a series of triggers. A script is the same thing. A script is a series of things that will trigger you in most cases, which?    36:30 is why somebody leaves a word out of a line. You often may not even notice that word's not there. Your brain's just going to put it in. So, yeah, exactly like you said, you're going to be right most of the time, because it is how your brain now thinks. And sometimes you won't be. But those are flukes. Those are rare. They do happen. They're. Certainly those will be the ones that we look at and focus on, because they're messed up and we'll use them to define ourselves. Oh, I'm terrible. How could I have made that mistake? But the truth is, usually things go right, and so trust yourself. It's why one of the four disagreements if you want to get it right, don't worry about getting it right.    37:11 Yeah, don't worry about getting it right, absolutely yeah, read it listen to it and, to be honest, if it's terrible, throw it away. Nobody's going to hear it.    37:18 - Anne (Host) Right, it's so funny. I remember when I was teaching in front of the class and I would get so excited. Sometimes, like my brain, I'd be like, oh, and I want to tell them about this, and then what would come out of my mouth sometimes didn't follow, because I was so excited, but the funny thing is is that I never once had a classroom that didn't forgive me for that, do you?    37:35 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) know what I mean?    37:36 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah, because I was so intent on sharing, and excited and passionate that they forgave the mistakes I made, and I truly believe that that's how you need to approach your copy, because it's more about how you're making me feel really. And, like you said, it's a series of synapses or reactions or the words are there to trigger something and so the acting is reacting, kind of thing.    37:59 And so that really needs to be built into all of your auditions, all of your performances in some form or fashion. And yeah, worrying about making it perfect is spending too much time worrying about making it perfect and not enough time worrying about how are you going to make someone feel or how are you going to engage with them and tell that story.    38:17 - Andy (Host) Yeah, it's not your job to not have a problem. It's your job to have a problem in a way that nobody else thinks it's going to become their problem. It's your ability to deal with it. Yeah, exactly, we worry about so much One of the things that I tell you have to do a do you can't, do a don't. I'm going to be happy. That's a do you can do that, I'm going to talk fast.    38:39 That's a do. I'm going to talk slow. I'm going to talk with an accent. I'm going to be really big or I'm going to be really small, I'm going to whisper Any of these things. These are things you can do. You can't do a don't. I don't want to be wrong is not a choice. I don't want to mess it up is not a choice. I'm trying to not be too fast, or I'm trying to not.    38:59 Those are not choices, those are don'ts. I would rather have you be too fast and ask you to slow down which is an inevitability of our relationship as director and actor anyway than have somebody who's delivering at the perfect pace but the copy is sounding like this and there's no humAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. HumAnness to it. Cool, we learn more from our successes than our mistakes. Everything you're good at, you've gotten good at by doing it right over, over, over, over over and sometimes messing it up, but being able to fix it because your brain knows what the right is. So whoever's listening to it or interacting with you in an audition is going okay. When they stumble, it's not going to be a big deal.    39:44 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, we'll move on yeah.    39:45 - Andy (Host) Yeah, nobody cares.    39:46 - Anne (Host) I want the intent.    39:47 - Andy (Host) Yeah, nobody cares if you screw up, I mean, and the reality of it is is.    39:50 - Anne (Host) I mean unless you're being live directed right. I mean we're all human. Everybody understands that. If you're not and you're doing it later on, I mean good Lord, we can just edit it.    40:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I mean, so if you stumble on a word.    40:03 - Anne (Host) I mean, we all do it. I'd love to speak perfectly 100% of the time, but I certainly don't. And so, yeah, we all make mistakes and so it's just you fix it. And so when I'm having somebody read for me live, I don't care if they stumble, I want their acting, I want to hear their acting. And if they stumble, it's okay because inevitably they're going to get it right. If I'm paying them $10,000 for the job, I mean they're going to go do it until they get it right.    40:25 And so if you're going to stumble in front of me, that's fine. I just want to feel you and hear you.    40:30 - Andy (Host) Yeah, just don't have a meltdown in front of me about it, don't beat yourself up, don't apologize. I want to be a director. I don't want to be a therapist.    40:39 - Anne (Host) You probably are for most of the time.    40:41 - Andy (Host) I don't want to. I don't want to do that. Yeah, I mean like people can go bleh, you know, and do a pickup. I don't mind a blip, that's huge. But I've seen people really like beat themselves up and feel like they're less than or feel like they're stupid I mess up words that I'm making up.    41:00 - Anne (Host) I mess up words when I talk in everyday conversation.    41:03 - Andy (Host) Yeah, yeah, and I don't even have a script, I'm just making that up. Yeah, exactly.    41:07 - Anne (Host) That's brain to mouth.    41:09 - Andy (Host) Oh, I screwed that up, yeah there's a lot that happens between synapse and noise and there can be a problem at any step of that process, so worry less about that, bosses. Yeah, worry less. There's a phrase that I hate practice makes perfect.    41:26 - Anne (Host) I mean, I don't know, if you say it, I'm sorry if you do, I probably. No, I don't okay. Good, I mean because it's never happened.    41:30 - Andy (Host) I mean, how long does something have to not happen before we stop acting like it's going to? The purpose of practice isn't to become some theoretical idea. The purpose of practice is to make you comfortable with the inevitability of your imperfection.    41:48 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I like that.    41:49 - Andy (Host) Yeah, you'll be reading a sarcastic role, or a happy role or an angry role. You'll be selling hamburgers or beer or a car. Scripts will change, attitudes will change, voices may change, but messing up a word and dealing with it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, you know that's the same. A typo, that doesn't change you. Getting mush mouth or dry mouth, that doesn't change. So the purpose of practice to get you comfortable with the fairly limited number of ways you're going to have a problem yeah, yeah, yeah yeah so that it's not a big deal.    42:23 I like that.    42:24 - Anne (Host) I'm always saying if there's a mistake in the script, and especially well, for me it makes sense because typically long-format narration scripts go through rounds and rounds of approvals, through like corporate hands and even like your stuff, I'm quite sure, goes through many hands of approval and so like, if you're going to be that actor that's going to point out a mistake in a script, no, don't be that actor.    42:44 Be the actor that reads it exactly the way it is but makes it sound like there's no mistake you know what I mean, that's your job is to make it sound beautiful, like, even if a word's missing or I mean if it's really really obvious then you just graciously. Hey, here's an alternate take, just. But don't ever like point out the mistake. Goodness gracious, no, nobody wants to be that person.    43:03 - Andy (Host) And if you have an opportunity to ask say is there a missing word? Sure, by all means, but sometimes you just don't have that opportunity. Sometimes you don't have an answer it's raining for the other team too.    43:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that. It's like that's such a great takeaway. That's such a great takeaway, that and just not worrying right and not worrying about being perfect, and I think that that has just been a wonderful takeaway and I feel like we need to have part one, two and three of this interview.    43:30 I would love that it's so wonderful. Thank you so much for chatting with me today and imparting those words of wisdom. Are you available, Like if people want to find out more about you? I mean, do you have a website? I mean, is it one of those things that people can reach out to you?    43:47 - Andy (Host) I do have a website. I have Andyrothcasting.com.    43:51 - Anne (Host) Okay.    43:52 - Andy (Host) Yeah, that is my website. I can't really always talk about things I'm working on, Of course. I mean almost everything is NDA, but things I've done are there. If I do have a class coming up or something, it's listed there.    44:03 - Anne (Host) And speaking of though, we do have a class coming up. I'm going to have you for my VO Peeps guest director guys. So boss is coming up.    44:11 Make sure you sign up, and I will say that when I met you at Mavo, you were doing a couple of classes and people were just raving about you and so, and they were really like taking a lot away from your classes. So I can't wait, I can't wait for you to be and you're going to be in. What did we decide? It was, oh my gosh, it's like May, may, march.    44:34 - Andy (Host) April, april or April or May, I don't know.    44:36 - Anne (Host) Peeps check the calendar because he's going to be here and Andy Roth, make sure you sign up, and I'm so excited for that.    44:44 - Andy (Host) Me too, me too. I'm really excited, and every opportunity to hang out and talk with you. Yay, I will take every one of those opportunities, awesome.    44:52 - Anne (Host) Well, hey, I can't wait to do this again. Thank you so much, thank you For being with me today, and a big shout out to my sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, you have an amazing week. I just sounded Jersey. I think it's because I'm talking to you, Andy. I said bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, guys.    45:16 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL. 

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble discuss the critical role of marketing in the voice acting industry. They explore various marketing strategies, including the importance of having a professional website, effective SEO practices, and the role of direct marketing. Learn about the impact of high-quality demos, the significance of direct marketing, and the potential returns when executed correctly. They touch on direct marketing services like VO Boss Blast, emphasizing targeted marketing without the spammy aftertaste. The BOSSes further explore the roles of online casting platforms, agent representation, and direct marketing, emphasizing the importance of diversifying marketing efforts and understanding the financial commitments involved. 00:01 - Rick MacIvor (Ad) Hi, this is Rick MacIvor with the VO Video Village YouTube channel. You know, when I started doing voiceover, I listened to the VO Boss podcast religiously. It was my go-to source of information about the industry and I still listen to it to this day. Every week there's an amazing new guest and Anne is able to really get some great information. I just love it. So thank you so much, Anne, looking forward to next week's episode.  00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss dot com.  01:00 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series.  01:28 I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am ecstatic to be here once again with the one and only lovely Danielle Fanbel. Hey, anne, so good to see you. Thank you for having me back on the podcast.  01:37 Awesome. Oh my God, it's such a pleasure talking money with you.  01:41 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh, I love it, I love it.  01:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love money. I love money. I still have that segment when we talked about say it along with us bosses.  01:48 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I love money.  01:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of money, we've talked a lot about investing money and receiving money and saving money, saving money, but one thing that we haven't really delved into so deeply is investing in money in the market, right? Because, in reality, we can't make money if we don't have a market to sell to, and we really need to be able to get in front of people in order to say hey, I'm here, I have a product and you are absolutely able to buy. Yeah, marketing your services, yeah are absolutely able to buy.  02:23 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, marketing your services.  02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, marketing your services. So, yes, it is absolutely related to financials, because you need to invest in marketing yourself money and time, and so I thought it'd be a good time to talk about the different types of marketing that are out there, like how is it that voice actors acquire jobs? I think there's four. Is it that?  02:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) voice actors acquire jobs, I think there's four, four ways, right, Danielle? Yeah.  02:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's direct marketing. We'll go over all of these as we go through the podcast. So there's direct marketing there's pay to plays Sure, yeah, there's agents Okay.  02:59 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah.  02:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And there's one of my favorites, which actually just happened. The other day I got a direct inquiry on my website from someone that was looking to hire a voice my voice because they'd come to my website and they listened to my demos and they asked me what would it cost to do such and such, and so that would be your website slash SEO, which one of my favorite types, because I really didn't have to work hard.  03:23 I had to work hard to get the SEO, so that I could be found, but it's nice when people find me because they've already listened to me, and so that is what I consider a warm lead.  03:33 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's actually one that you have so much more control over as well, because you can choose what you put on your website. You can choose how much SEO marketing that you do, how much money you put into your SEO marketing, and then, when it's out there, people find you and they know a lot about you because you've already put a lot of time and energy into cultivating and curating what they see when they come to your website.  03:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, since we're already on the topic, right, let's delve deeper into that.  04:02 Because when I ask people like, what do they have money to spend on, I mean it's almost like a last ditch effort.  04:07 I feel like that voice actors say, oh well, I've got to get a website up, but I don't think they understand the importance of having that online storefront because, honestly, that works for you 24 seven. If you have people finding you on your website, that is your marketing investment that is available day in, day out, 24 hours a day, and the cool thing about it is is that you can showcase your product with a good demo. By the way, when you showcase that product and they listen to that demo and then they inquire and you make it easy for them to inquire about your product, then I say that you haven't had to audition. You know it's a warm lead and that lead is usually quite effective because then, once they inquire, you can ask for more information and then start a negotiation process which, again, is absolutely under your control, and it's probably, I would say, one of the easier. Once you've got your website up and running and you've done the work to get good SEO, it's one of the easiest ways to acquire work and to get paid.  05:08 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh yeah, and it comes directly to you. So you're not there's no friction of having to speak to your agent or your representation or going through a portal on like pay-to-play sites. I mean, it really is just direct and you can really cultivate how that relationship how you want to. You can ask them if they want to do directed sessions with you so they can see your process a little bit more in depth. You control, like, how quickly you are or are not responding the negotiation process huge. But, yeah, having them be able to find you and typically that is finding you via, like a Google search or that's finding you through social media, if you've done any social media touches as well. They could even find you on certain websites that you are on, for example, like a pay-to-play website.  05:53 But then you have your demos. You also have your email address, your website, so there are different ways that you can sprinkle around the essence of who you are and your digital storefront, hang your shingle out there and you can point it back by using SEO. You can guest blog, you can be on podcasts, you can do so many other things that bring awareness to who you are. That points a potential client to you, to your website, and then, when it's there, then they can take a look and see everything that you've curated for them to see about you and possibly working with you.  06:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And so think about it, guys, when you shop online, right. So these are important things to know right about your website. When you shop online, what is it that you're looking for? Or when do you shop online? Right, you shop online when you have a need, right, and so, typically, people that are searching at the Google prompt or they see something that you might have curated on social media, they've been sparked because they have a need, and this is the very essence of marketing, right, because you need to contact those people. They need to be ready, right, or they need to be preparing to be ready, or they need to be researching the buy, and you are there in front of them, and that is probably half the battle, if not the majority of the battle is to get there in front of them, and then, when they have the need, they're going to buy.  07:13 So I'm always talking about well, I shop for fashion, for lipstick, and when I have a need, I will go to the Google prompt or I will go to a website that I know, right, a brand that I know and I trust and I've purchased from before. So that's always a good reason to have a website, right, people who you've worked with before they'll go to your website again. They might be showing your voice to somebody else. They might just be coming to contact you again to get your email address, but having people come to you is, I think, the majority of the work, and so make sure that your website is easy to navigate, make sure that you have your product displayed promptly and like right up at the top so that they can hear your voice, and also all of your contact information so that they can get in touch with you.  08:02 - Danielle Famble (Guest) They know how to find you.  08:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and you don't have to do the audition. That's what I say. You don't have to be like it's 24-7, because a lot of times the other types of marketing we're going to talk about is your pay-to-plays or your auditions, because you have to do a little bit of work first and then you get cast, but with your website it sits there, available and it works for you, and so make sure your SEO, which is your search engine optimization, is up to snuff on there. And it used to be that people paid for SEO. I don't know, do people pay for SEO much anymore?  08:33 - Danielle Famble (Guest) It became almost like a scam at one point.  08:36 I do. I actually pay for SEO. I've paid some people to help me navigating, like acquiring backlinks and making sure that anything that is out there on my website or pointing to my website is something that Google likes and can help someone find me. If there are certain keywords that I want to be found for, if someone's searching in Google, I want to be able to make sure that I rank high for those. So it is definitely something that you can definitely invest money into and I would say, probably hire someone who knows how to do that, and that is a wise use of your investment. If that's what you choose to do, you can absolutely do that, and you can also just take care of what is on your website.  09:18 So make sure that your brand is exactly what you want people to see, and you need to reverse engineer it. Think like a buyer. Think like if I'm looking for a voice actor who sounds like this particular type of brand. Make sure that you've showcased that that's what you do and showcase it in a way that is easy to digest and that people can take it for what they need. For example, make sure your demos are downloadable. If they need to like, take off demos off of your website. If they know how to reach out to you, make sure your email address is on it, not just a contact form. Make it so that if you were a person who was looking for you, they would know how to find you just on your website.  10:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And make it quick.  10:03 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And make it quick Make it quick and painless.  10:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Quick and painless right. You don't want to make it hard on your potential clients, so we could probably have an entire episode and I know I have had previous episodes on websites and how important they are, but in terms of the marketing of you, they're critical. So don't leave that to be like the last thing that you do or the thing that you don't want to invest your money in. Because I'll tell you what, for me, when I shop, a website literally is the clincher for me, because I want to make sure that that website looks professional, that it looks trustworthy and it has the things that I want on it, that I can see I can get the information quickly, because I don't have a lot of attention span and I don't have a lot of time, right.  10:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And it's not a set it and forget it kind of thing too. It's something that needs maintenance, which also requires money and time, because certain plugins need to be updated, your hosting needs to be updated, and maybe you even need to refresh what's on your website. Maybe it's that your demos get updated, or any videos or social proof of what you've done needs to be updated as well. So this is not a set it and forget it. This is something that requires maintenance, and that maintenance does require time and money investments Exactly.  11:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's talk about, like I said, we could go on forever about this, but let's talk now about the second method, and these are in no particular order. I'm just having to be thinking of pay-to-plays and online rosters, right, yeah, and there's lots of different places out there that can help you to write a great profile. If you are unfamiliar or you're scared about writing about yourself. Lots of places out there that have helpful hints on how to write a good profile and also have your products ready to upload or be on display, right. So have those demos and make sure those demos are. You know, again, that's your product, so make sure those demos are good demos, or those samples are good samples, and that they make you shine. Okay, not just like oh, I created a sample, let me upload it, because, again, you're going up now against other people At this point.  12:08 You're on a website that has other people that have products as well that are displaying, so you want your product to be the best product, right? You want your product to look the best, you want your product to sound the best. It's all in like the display, like if I'm working in retail and in clothing and if you walk into a store and it's just real pretty and it's got a good feng shui about it, then you're like, oh, I'm more apt to buy. So if you've got a demo and it just kicks butt, I mean, people, I think, are going to be impressed by that. And there's so many differing opinions on like, do you need a demo these days? Well, I think you need something that absolutely exemplifies and showcases your voice, and it's very best. And so a lot of times when you're beginning and you're just starting out, you don't know what you don't know and you don't have an ear for it.  12:52 So that's when you trust a good coach demo producer. But the pay-to-plays are an investment, right? Your demos, your product is an investment. Your online casting, well, pay-to-plays for sure are an investment, because there's typically a membership involved in that and online rosters can be an investment. It can absolutely be an investment of your time, maybe, I don't know. I don't know any online rosters, though, except pay-to-plays, that ask you to pay a membership fee. Do you?  13:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Danielle Right? No, I don't really know of any online rosters that ask you to pay a membership fee. That sounds to me more like a pay-to-play. But the idea of making sure that your marketing everything that you're offering on your portion of the pay-to-play is professional and showcases what you do well is really important, because you are, if you think about it, like being in a grocery store and you're in like the ketchup aisle. There are several different brands of ketchup.  13:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There are so many ketchups, yeah.  13:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So what are you choosing and why? So you really want to make sure that, like your portion of the digital landscape that you're taking up on, that pay-to-play represents who you are and the branding of it, like ketchup label, for example really showcases what it is that you do and what you do well, and again, how people can contact you. If it's through that pay to play, cool. If it is to your website, then that's sort of a second link to making sure that there's consistency.  14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, now, in terms of marketing, right, what's important in the marketing of that, right? So, on your website, it was important that you had SEO, so people knew where to go, right, they know how to get to your place, they get to your online storefront, and that's done through the actual verbiage that you have on your website as well as, let's say, social media and emails that drive people to your website. Now, with online casting and pay-to-plays, right, online casting and pay-to-plays, they're doing a lot of the marketing for you as well, because their SEO already includes a lot of voice actors. So, when people are searching for that voice actor or corporate narration voice or whatever they're searching for, because they have a series or a bunch of voice actors on there, their SEO is already working in their favor. Plus, they're probably doing their own marketing because they want to get clients in.  15:01 I mean, that's like one of the roles of an online pay-to-play is to get clients in because they have a need, right. So at this point they have a need and now they go to the pay-to-play or the online roster and now they have to choose right, and again, like you said, just like in the ketchup aisle, you want to make sure your ketchup is the best and your ketchup stands out and that your brand is really represented well. And so the marketing investment there is your investment in that membership, as well as the investment of, let's say, your product right to have a great product so that it stands out, and the way that you're writing that description right, and the things that you can control on the pay-to-play or the online roster.  15:39 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and recognize that you are in that particular marketing instance. You are attaching your business on the back of another business, exactly so making sure that you agree with how that business is running. Maybe you don't choose a particular pay to play because you don't agree, but know that you are attaching your business to another business, so that business's success is also your success. But you need to make sure that it's not the only way that people can find you, which is why, like this four-prong approach I think is really smart, just making sure to diversify.  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, you're right, don't put all your eggs in one basket, right? I've seen that around. You know you want to make sure you don't put all of your time and all your investment in just a pay-to-play, because there's lots of different ways to acquire work, and so that was the second way, and again, we could have a whole podcast episode just on pay-to-plays, which we might do. But our third one that we're talking about is agent representation, maybe management right and management right. And so in that marketing instance, right, the agents have a relationship right, or the managers have a relationship with either other agents or with potential clients, and those clients depend on the agent or the manager mostly the agent right Because the choices to them by just searching at the Google prompt are overwhelming.  16:57 There's a lot of voice talent out there, and so they might have worked with an agent for many years and they trust that agent, and that agent is the one that probably gets them the short list right. They have dependable, qualified voice actors on their roster. They have an audition which they'll give to the agent. The agent will then distribute it to their roster and then at that point they'll get back those auditions and the agent will shortlist, for the most part the agent will shortlist and then send that shortlist to the client and that kind of keeps the client's decision-making process make it a little bit easier, not as overwhelming- yeah, it's a little bit more of a curated way to get what you're looking for and again, that's connecting that to another business.  17:43 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So as long as that agent or manager or whomever has these robust relationships with potential buyers, then you're riding along on that relationship. So it also then means with your marketing is making sure that your agent knows everything they need to know about you, and so it's managing that relationship with your agent and making sure they have what they need. They have your most updated demos, they have your most updated work. They know if you have conflicts and you can't audition for certain things. It's making sure that you have watered that relationship and you managed until the garden of that relationship, because it's not just with your demos or what you've done, it's also making sure that that interpersonal relationship is healthy.  18:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and so your financial investment with an agent or a manager right is usually going to be a percentage of the job that you get. So you're going to have to have number one to get a good agent, you probably need a really good demo. There's going to be the investment in getting a really good demo. Especially because agents and managers typically work in the broadcast part of the industry. You want to make sure that you have a tip-top demo because they're very busy people. Typically that's going to be like your demo is going to get you in the door. That in the recommendation probably.  19:01 So there's the investment in that. And then there's the financial responsibility. If you audition for the gig, it's going to be your time in auditioning right for your agents. And also, when you get the gig, it's going to be a percentage anywhere from 10 to 20 percent. And then managers typically are nurturing relationships between you and an agent, and then you're paying a manager as well a certain percentage. So there's your financial investment in that leg of the marketing.  19:28 And then finally, we have, after that, we've got the SEO. We talked about your investment, which was investment in your website, in your product, and then your negotiation skills, your pay to play or your online rosters, is your investment in the membership, in the investment in having a product that stands out and, again, having a great demo, having a way to make sure that your brand stands out for that. And then we just spoke about the agent manager. Right, your financial investment is going to be the percentage, it's going to be your demo and it's going to be your percentage that they're going to take once you get the gig. And what is our last one?  20:02 I've been cracking my brain like, oh God, what is the last one? We?  20:05 - Danielle Famble (Guest) have four. I was looking for the last one.  20:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was like I hope she pulls it out because I can't SEO pay to plays, SEO pay to plays managers, agents, oh, direct marketing.  20:15 Yes, absolutely so, and one of the reasons gosh, I should know that is direct marketing. I think is probably one of the most unpredictable and probably difficult, but can be really, really a great payback if you invest in it. So there's probably the most, I would say, unknown investment in direct marketing, because direct marketing is you contacting a potential client, and so how did you get those leads? It's either leads that you've curated yourself right Through mining the internet, linkedin, getting contacts at companies.  20:51 And yeah, and so you're reaching out to them directly, and so there's a whole issue of, okay, you got to be careful to not be spammy. So there's your time investment with that and you have to be careful that you're not spamming, because how many of us have gotten an email from somebody we didn't know that?  21:06 is peddling their services and we kind of get upset right and we say I didn't ask for this. So you have to be very careful, be spam compliant, which is why I created, by the way, the VO Boss Blast, and I don't want this to turn into a whole VO Boss Blast marketing effort by me. But I'll tell you why I created it. Because I didn't have a ton of time to do auditions right. I auditioned for my agents only. I didn't have time to be on a pay-to-play to audition 10, 20 times a day.  21:34 So I created a direct marketing product called the Boss Blast, which basically just gives me a list. I purchased a list that is curated by another entity and basically is continually updated. So that was not a cheap list. I don't sell the list to people, but what I do is I use a portion of that list and I market to that list for you.  21:56 Now, the one advantage of the direct marketing on that list, as opposed to just mining the internet and sending somebody an email saying, hey, I'm a voice artist and if you need my services I'm here and blah, blah, blah, which could be considered spam is that the people on this list have already agreed for the VO Boss domain to market to them.  22:14 So therefore I market for you on behalf of my domain and so they've already said it's okay to market. So I've got about 90,000 creatives on this list, and it's not that you couldn't buy that list either, but I spent thousands of dollars on the list, so I mean you can certainly make that investment yourself as well. The other thing that I invest in in order to send that email or to send out lots of email at one time, is investing in a mail service and I use ActiveCampaign, so I spend thousands of dollars on that as well. So in order to recoup those costs, I offer it to a small percentage of the voiceover community if they want to market and use a portion of that list. But the most important thing about direct marketing is understanding. So the investment is you're going to pay somebody to direct market for you or you're going to spend the time curating the leads and then that's not like something you can do overnight and you can't send to a thousand people at once.  23:06 However, you're investing your time in that, and typically in a marketing class too, because you want to make sure that you're not being spammy, and a lot of people need help marketing A direct marketing product like VioBoss it is a paid thing. We market for you. The one thing that you have to understand about direct marketing it's very effective. However, you have to understand that timing is everything on a direct marketing campaign, because I tell people like this I have a need for shorts when the summer comes around and I subscribe to the Old Navy list, I always use Old Navy. I don't know why, but I subscribe to many lists, but Old Navy sends me three to four emails a week. I've agreed to allow them to send me emails because I made sure I checked that box that they can send marketing emails, but I don't buy right, every time they send me an email, I do not buy. As a matter of fact, the only time I buy is when I have a need, right, do I have a need for shorts? Well, I've got 20 pair of shorts that I just bought this past season, so do I need another pair. I don't know. Maybe what will convince me that I need another pair is if I maybe figure out oh, but these are cute and they're the right, price, right or whatever it is. However, they've been packaged in that email to say, hey, either there's a sale and I'm not suggesting that voice actors create a sale, but I mean theoretically you could. I mean I have knowledge. I have knowledge that there's a new season, it's summer and these cute trending shorts are at Old Navy. I must have them right. So I have a need.  24:32 I click on the email right that says Old Navy's got new summer wear and I look at what's on that email and I have an interest and now I click right because I might want to consider buying. When I click and I go to that website, I want to make sure that website is trustworthy. I want to make sure. Well, old Navy, I already bought from them, so I trust them. But it could be a new brand. But when it's a new brand and I'm not familiar and I haven't purchased before, I make sure that that website looks legit, not familiar and I haven't purchased before. I make sure that that website looks legit and I do research to make sure that they're legit and then, if everything happens and the timing is right, I click to buy your voice acting product. Your voice is the same exact way. So I ask you, danielle, how many times does Old Navy need a voice to sell a product? Is it every day? It may not be every day.  25:21 - Danielle Famble (Guest) They might want to change their marketing once a season or every couple of years, you never know, but it's not daily.  25:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not daily. So you have to understand when you're paying for direct marketing or your direct marketing on your own right. If you send one email to a thousand people on a list or no matter how that gets accomplished, you may not even get somebody. People might open the email but you may not get a purchase. So you cannot expect from direct marketing because it is such a timing related thing, you cannot expect that. Well, I paid someone to market for me and I sent out a thousand emails. I didn't even get anybody that wrote back to me. Well, do you write back to Old Navy when they don't? You know what I mean.  26:04 - Rick McIvor (Ad) Old Navy sends me emails three, four times a week Do.  26:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I write back to them to say no, I have no need, I'm sorry. Or hey, do you have shorts? Like no, I just don't. I look at it, I open it. Maybe I go to the website and click. So just keep that in mind when you are direct marketing.  26:22 And, by the way, for my VO Boss Blast, we do go over who opens your email because we can track that, because I purchased these services. My ActiveCampaign server actually tracks who opens the email and it tracks who clicks on email. So if we put a click in an email saying go to your website, I'll know that they went to your website. Now do I know if they purchased? No, I don't. Only you know that, only you know if they've sent an inquiry. Once they've gotten to that website, which was the very first marketing method we talked about right, they've looked at your website and if you're unknown to them, they look at it. They see something and it sparks trust and they listen to your voice. It's accessible and they like it. So then they get to know you by seeing your brand, which you've represented on your website. So they know, like and trust and that will give them a reason to buy.  27:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And what I like about your Old Navy example is, for a lot of people, and myself included, I've been personally really afraid of direct marketing because it feels like it's such a heavy lift and you've always got to be doing it and there's just so much to do and how do you have the time to send out you know a thousand emails or what have you.  27:31 But the point that you're making and the point that I'm receiving from what you're talking about is really that this is sort of the engine that is constantly running in the background to bring more leads into your business, or at least more eyeballs on your brand, so that they can see who you are. When they are ready, then they will be reaching out to you. But you have to constantly be doing it and it can just be a little bit at a time, but just one touch is not enough. So you have to continually put in the energy and the effort for it and then, going back to the finances of it, recognize that you will either be paying with your money or with your time. You can outsource these things and it is something that is possible to outsource that somebody else is doing it, which is exactly what the VO Blast is yeah, and people will say and my blast.  28:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you decide, after you send out an initial blast which introduces by the way, it introduces you to the list that I've created for you, and then after that, it becomes top of mind, just like you said, continually, they've got to be reminded, like I forgot, oh, I forgot, that Old Navy has got a new. If I don't see it in front of me, I might forget. So I need to be reminded. So, even if I don't open the email, I need to see the email coming through my inbox, right, that it's coming from Old Navy and the subject line will say, right, summer sale or summer fashion. And then I'll be reminded. Yes, now the time is right, let me click, let me go, let me see if it has what I want and I will buy if it, you know, if it suits all of my needs. So just know that reaching out to someone once a month, which is what we do in reality, I could be reaching out for you a couple times a month and I've thought about changing up my product offering to allow maybe two times a month. That is not spam, that is absolutely not spammy and I, by the way, I want to make sure that we're not spamming people, because if you yourself have been spammed, you know how off-putting that can be and that can take a promising lead and just kill it forever, because I've had people who have reached out to me trying to sell their services and I've been completely turned off and I basically blacklist them. So, as a provider of this sort of service, I have to be careful that VioBoss is not sending spammy messages. So keep in mind, if you ever are interested in that, you can find out more at that. Vioboss is not sending spammy messages. So keep in mind, if you ever are interested in that, you can find out more at the VioBoss website. It's called the VioBoss Blast and I can also talk to you about the specifics of it.  29:48 But I am very protective of my domain. I make sure that we're not spamming. Your email goes through my eyes every single time, so I want to make sure that I'm protecting my brand as much as I'm protecting your brand. But yeah, so your financial investment there will be in your time curating leads yourself right for direct marketing and then being careful that you're not spamming or investing and outsourcing it to someone like a VO Boss Blast like myself or somebody else to do your marketing for you. Be careful.  30:16 I will just say, if you're buying a list because I'm selling you marketing to a list, I'm not selling you a list. The list, I happen to know, is a reputable place that constantly updates their contacts so that if somebody doesn't work for the company anymore, they're taken off the list. I don't send emails to a stale list and I don't give you a list because of that Number one. You don't know how long that list has been around. You didn't verify those people and you didn't find out from those people that they've allowed you to send them email. You've not gotten permission.  30:47 So I'm the one who has permission based on the list that I am curating for you and then sending email out on behalf. So your investment there is, whatever it costs, to outsource the marketing and the generation of that email to a permission-based list. So, wow, so that was a lot. Yeah, that was a lot, but it's so important, bosses, that you understand that without people having a need for your product, for your voice, your business, won't exist for your product, for your voice, your business won't exist.  31:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And that marketing is a huge way to keep your business flowing, because either you are doing the direct marketing yourself or you are connecting your business to other businesses. But it does require a time and financial commitment to keep all of this up and it has to be done on a daily basis, and even including auditioning. Auditioning is marketing. So auditioning on all of these different platforms and your own is ways to market yourself as well. So this is just. It's got to constantly be happening in order to bring your business continual revenue.  31:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, and so there is a financial investment everywhere. It's so funny, danielle, because this series on money. It's funny how much people don't necessarily want to talk about it, but it's in every single aspect of our business, of our performance, of our auditioning, of our it's your time or your physical money that is involved and we have to be conscious of it and we have to be educated about it and we have to be accepting of it, right.  32:18 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, absolutely.  32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which is what our series is attempting to do for the bosses out there, danielle, and I'm so grateful that I get to talk to you about it, because, god, you just bring so much to the table. Thank you so much.  32:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Thank you so much, anne. I love talking about this and I think that having an open and honest dialogue about money, about how we can have it, make more of it, make it grow, how we can bring it into our lives and our businesses, is really what helps us impact the world around us, because it requires money and there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's wonderful and, as we always say, I love money and I love talking about it.  32:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, bosses, we love money. Go out there and market. Thank you again, danielle. This has been a really great episode. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week. Go out there and market yourself, and we will see you next week. Bye, bye.  33:16 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

00:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza.  00:37 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm here with my lovely, lovely co-host, Lau Lapides. Hi, Lau Lapides, how are you? I'm great, how are you? I am wonderful, wonderful. So, Lau, this week it's funny how many times I usually ask my students for their headshots so that I can help promote their demos that we've just finished and I produced and I like to put them in my YouTube channel, and I like to put a headshot with demo and testimonial. And it amazes me how many voice actors don't really have a good headshot or don't have one. They're like, well, I'm waiting to get my headshots or I haven't thought about getting headshots yet. Or can I just give you this picture, and it's funny because I think headshots are so important for our careers, and so maybe we should talk about why do we need headshots and what goes into a good headshot.  01:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love that, annie. It's such a long time coming too, because I hear so many clients and some of my talent actually most of my talent now are really on the headshot wagon for their websites, for their whatever they're doing.  02:03 A lot of them are actors on IMDb, on Actors Access, on Casting Networks, you name it. They're kind of all over the moon, and so one of the things we talk about all the time is you have to have great headshots, not only for your marketing, your PR, for your business, but also it's important if you're ever going to do on-camera work, and some of them do really want to do on-camera work authentically. They're excited about doing industrials or training videos or whatever, and so we have to have industry standard, professional demos. I think one of the biggest problems we see, annie, is people going to their mother's brother's first cousin to shoot their headshots, and it's always bad when they do that, because you're doing that to save money and we have to be careful of that.  02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot to be said for a really good shot on your iPhone, because you know the cameras are getting better and better. However, there's a lot to be said for going to get a professional headshot, and I am a big believer in that, and anybody who just goes to my website or has ever gone to my website knows how much I utilize my headshots in my website for like every other page and it really helps in my marketing, in my branding, I mean.  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) And we get so tired. Annie, god bless you. I know you and I, who use our shots all the time. I get so tired of the same shots. Yeah, me too. I myself did three headshot shoots last year alone. I did three and I'm like, oh my gosh, it's like I'm an A-lister. No, I'm just a business owner. I'm a business owner that wants to have different feels, looks, appeals for different kinds of things, yeah, that work for different instances, and I'll tell you what.  03:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So my last headshot right, when we talk about what goes, it may be prepping for your headshot, but what goes into it, because I've been doing this for so long and I have the same headshot photographer that I've had for probably 10 years and she knows me very well and I know her very well. And this last time, when I went, I literally brought at least 10 different changes of clothes and that is kind of excessive. But I knew what I wanted, right, I knew the different types of shots that I wanted and it took me weeks to curate my outfits, but it really worked for me, right, it really worked for me.  04:18 And I got a variety of different shots and literally we shot probably the entire day, which you know it was not necessarily a cheap thing, but I have gotten so much use and so much footage out of these headshots that it's been really incredible, I mean honestly. And she even did video, and the video helped too, because I've got video that's on my website as well. And me in action me behind the mic, me doing different things. So let's talk about first of all. Tell me why you think it's necessary these days to have a good headshot.  04:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, 100% airtight, you need a headshot. I would even say that if you're not a performer, I would say that if you are working in banking, if you're a real estate person, if you're an attorney, you need excellent even for your LinkedIn Like that's become a big thing shots for your LinkedIn, but still the shots are not great that you're seeing in corporate America. They just really are not great. So I would suggest that you look up you Google or you go to your coaching team and say I need excellent photographers in my area within this radius that are actor headshot photographers, not business photographers, not wedding photographers, not child photographers, but they understand the sensibility of a professional headshot and I need to have that because I'm going to be putting out my photo everywhere, whether I'm doing it in my own advertising, whether I'm working a project and they want me to send them shots for that project.  05:47 I mean, there's so many Social media. Put your great shots on social media. There's so many reasons why you have to have it now right. That's one of the biggest mistakes I see happen. Just to save a few bucks is to go to someone who's inexpensive or go to a family member or try to do it yourself. I think it's very difficult because there's a certain sense that a headshot photographer has about lighting you, about your makeup, about knowing what translates on camera.  06:16 Yeah, I mean it's really everything, and it's the sensibility of making you look like you, not a glamorized version of you, but you on an awesome day.  06:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, back in the day, like the Sears or JCPenney.  06:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, glamour shots. No that you would just go and they all had the same background.  06:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love those, but they were all very much like a similar style, right, and so I think what we need to do as creatives and entrepreneurs is, no matter who you are actually, I think the more you can showcase your personality through your headshots, the better and more effective they will be, and so, for me, when I was picking out my outfits, I was trying to figure out okay, who am I, what aspects of my personality do I want to showcase, and where am I going to use these headshots? And so I knew that I would use a lot of them for my website.  07:04 I knew that I was going to use a lot of them for social media advertisements about what I do, so of course, I needed props. Right, and props were. I brought every single pair of glasses, by the way, and on my Ann Genguza coaching page you'll see a video shot of me with about 12 different pairs of glasses, because that's just part of my personality, right I?  07:22 love it. And also I'm hoping that some eyewear company will say oh Ann, please be a brand ambassador for us because I love glasses. But I did. I brought like 10 different pairs of glasses.  07:32 It was something I literally had to plan when I was going for my shot and I had to make sure that she knew that I had at least eight different looks that I wanted to shoot and that usually they charge based upon how many looks and then they charge on how many digital.  07:47 Because she gave me all digital shots and because I've known her forever, I'm like just give me all the shots, right, and then I'll pay you to edit the ones that I think I'll use ultimately. And that is a time consuming process, but it was definitely well worth my time and I paid for makeup and hair on the day and I wanted to make sure I had three different hairstyles as well. So that is like okay, when am I going to take the straight hair shot? And then we have to have time to curl my hair and when am I going to take the curled hair headshot? And then what am I going to do? Am I going to keep it all in front of me? Am I going to maybe put half of it back. So there's all sorts of different looks that I was curating for those headshots.  08:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I think those are all important points, and you're a pro and you've been doing this for years and years and years, and so you're at a point where you're doing really a pro shot. You're doing a pro shoot. That's really also full body shots, and that's something— I did full body shots as well. I think there's a couple steps that I think the early entry person needs to follow so they don't get overwhelmed, and the first one is finding a photographer and finding someone within a geographical distance that you're willing to travel, and finding someone within your budget. So you have to understand what your budget is and what the market rate will bear and put those people by your coaches so that they can okay it for you, so that you're not going to a charlatan or someone who really doesn't have a gallery of actual headshots, but really more of a wedding photographer. You have to be careful of that right. So it's really selecting the right photographer for you and also knowing am I doing headshots only or am I doing full body shots?  09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) as well.  09:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) And that's another decision to make, which will cost you a lot more money to do that.  09:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's more of an investment to do that and, for the most part, most professional photographers have a website where you can look at their portfolio and see the type of shots that they've taken before and get a cost estimate. And I will say that this is something that you have to prepare for. You have to actually say I am going to make an investment in my headshots because they are important for my business.  09:47 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, they are important and don't avoid it, don't treat it like the plague, don't say oh.  09:51 I hate it, I don't want to do it. That's not a good start. You want to really discipline your mind to say I need this because I'm reaching out to my audience, I'm reaching out to potential clients and they need to see me, they need to see who I am. So once you select that photographer and you figure out what your budget is and decide am I doing headshot, which is typical, like a bust-up shot, or am I doing a full-body shot? Right, and you can discuss that with your coaching team easily. Now you have to kind of figure out what am I going to bring and I would say for a headshot.  10:23 What you said was not excessive. I say you bring the 5 to 10 tops.  10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took me three trips from my car to the studio with all of my stuff oh, it takes a lot of trips and shoes, because I knew I was doing full body shots. I had to do shoes. I had boots and then I had jewelry. I brought my entire jewelry like case. I had packed that because I wanted to switch out jewelry as well. Yes, exactly, and ultimately it was a long day. I was exhausted. However, it was amazing. And then I did another photo shoot with the same photographer. That was a different style. It wasn't four headshots for my website or my business. It was Jerry and I, and it was Jerry and I at the beach. I always wanted to do a shot at the pier with Jerry and so I said well, let's make it a full day. And again, I curated outfits and I actually took photos of myself in the outfits and then got people's opinions or looked at myself, because sometimes what you think looks great and when you take a photograph of it, sometimes it doesn't look the same way.  11:21 And so I highly recommend that, if you can, you can get like a really inexpensive like stand, a really inexpensive set of lights, which I do for a lot of my marketing for brands that I work with for clothing, and your iPhone right, I mean, that's how I do all of my shots for that and a really good editing software that you can have on your phone, which I have all of these things, by the way, linked on anganguzacom in my shop section, because I love them and I feel like for any voice actor it's good. Like the lighting that I have in the studio is important. Lighting is, oh my gosh, almost everything, and you also have to be considerate of where's the studio. Are you going to do it inside or outside? And inside do they do it with natural?  12:06 I think natural light is the very best lighting, and so if they have a studio that has a lot of windows, that you can be facing the windows, because that's your best light on your face, and so you can practice on yourself and take lots of different pictures and figure out what sort of positions, do I have a good side, do I have a bad side, do I have preferences that you can then communicate to your photographer and also, like I said, curate some outfits and take some pictures of yourself in those outfits to see how they look in a photo, and then maybe you can even send, like, here's a look that I was thinking of.  12:40 You can even send those to your photographer ahead of time to see what they think. That's just because I have a really good relationship with mine, but it does help a lot to get their professional opinion and she knows where to go with that camera to get the best picture of me, because she probably took, I think, on that day, maybe a thousand shots and I think I ended up with 500 of them, but I'm using maybe 50. So, but still, that's a lot of shots.  13:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's huge. That's a lot of shots, I would say, for folks listening in who are going for their first time, or maybe their second time, but their first time in. It's scary it is. It's a scary. You've got to get comfortable in front of the camera. It can be upsetting, psychologically demanding, to look at yourself and you want that photographer to work with you and show you what they are shooting, as they're shooting it.  13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, and ask to see those photos as they're shooting them, deal with what you see, and that's something that you've got to do.  13:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Whatever you need to do, meditate, drink water, see a therapist, whatever you need to do, do not unload on the photographer. They're just there to shoot you and make you look great. But the psychological hurdles that you're going to need to overcome with dealing with your age, your weight, your style I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be transparent. Mom is going to tell you the truth. It's going to be hard, it's not going to be easy.  14:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like looking in a mirror and it's hard. And if you hate yourself in the mirror?  14:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Most people do not like it. They do not like the experience, they do not like looking at themselves. So it's just like listening to yourself, right, annie? You have to do it a lot and get used to it and know that that's kind of a necessary part of our industry. I would say start out simple, like, just start out with doing a headshot, having some great tops, layer it, bring in some jackets, some sweaters, right? Nothing busy. Don't make sure you don't have words, sequins, shiny things on your clothes. See what I'm wearing today. It's awesome, but not great for a headshot, because it's too busy looking, unless it's what we call a personality shot. Yes, so a personality shot is not a standard headshot. It is different.  14:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's what I'm going to talk about. I think the personality shot almost always sometimes looks better.  14:59 - Intro (Announcement) I mean there's a place for each right.  15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the personality shot is like what is it that makes you you? What is it that makes you laugh? What is it that you're passionate about? Like, do you have a hobby that you're passionate about? I mean outside of voiceover. Right, for me it was, you know. I'm just trying to think what I did. I mean because I loved. Well, I did the whole family shot by the ocean, because we love the ocean. I loved horses.  15:20 So you know what I mean. I have different aspects. I have my cowboy boots. I always do a business shot.  15:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) I always do a corporate shot right. There's a mom shot. There's different roles you're thinking about, of what you give off, what you play, whether you're an actor or you're not an actor, like what's your perception of what you give off to the world, and you want to match that for sure. So, starting with the headshot, I think is great, annie, to just start sort of simply like that and thinking about how do I wear my, how do I want to wear my hair? Do I like it down? Do I?  15:49 - Intro (Announcement) like it up.  15:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) How do I like my makeup? You know, having that makeup artist in hair is so important, because you translate so differently on camera than you do in real life.  15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, even for, let's say, guys who are not necessarily wearing makeup, or is that something that they should consider when taking headshots?  16:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, honestly, I don't recommend men to have makeup. I just say listen, have a good powder on hand, have some great chapstick.  16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, because you don't want the shine.  16:15 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they can do it in.  16:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Photoshop. I will say something about glasses, because you have to be careful about the angle. So, like right now, you can see as I look up towards the light. You can see the reflection in my glasses. Right, right. So the photographer needs to know the angle right of the lighting that they have in there and that it's not reflecting off the glasses. There are a lot of times you can get frames without any lenses and sometimes this is the best solution Actually the photographer Fig.  16:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Good, See, this is the difference, you guys Listen up, Between a wedding photographer, a child photographer and an actor photographer. One of my photographers was so pro, he gave me his own glasses, his props, and he popped out the lenses and he said here you go. And I said, really, you don't want the light. He's like no, no, I don't want any reflection, I just need the rims, Because they have to try to get rid of it in the end.  17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And for me, I need my glasses. I cannot literally read or see without them, and so they are prescription and, the funny thing is, Lau. If you look really closely, you're going to see one of my eyes is bigger than the other, and that's because one of my eyes is much worse than the other and my lens is thicker, so it's magnifying my eye. Now for me.  17:24 - Lau Lapides (Host) I thought you were going to say you have a fake glass eye and you're going to plop it out For me. I was like, oh my God, I didn't know that.  17:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For me, I call my other eye the droopy eye because it looks like it's drooping, like this one looks like it's drooping and now that I've just pointed it out for everybody. But when I do my Teachable Moments videos, I will have days when I'm tired right and my one eye really droops more, and also the angle of the camera has a lot to do with it. So if I'm looking like this, you're not going to notice that this eye is bigger, but if I look this way, you're going to notice this eye is much bigger than this eye. That's fun.  17:53 So it is a thing, and it's only because the lens is thicker, the magnification is thicker, and you know your angles too.  17:59 That's how much I've been on camera and you know you are very aware and that's something you can communicate to your photographer. But even If they're good, they're going to make you look good. They know the angle, they know where to come, they know where to place you within the light. They're going to make you feel good about yourself. So, if you can find Now, I have been all different weights, I've felt all different ways about myself and I've needed headshots, and so she has gone through my lifetime with me. I feel the last 10 years she's been with me through heavier times, thinner times, and always that affects how I feel about myself and how I feel about myself in front of the camera, and she has always. I've trusted her with my life because she's always been able to make me look good or feel good about myself. That, to me, is priceless right, that she is worth every penny because she knows me and she knows how to take a good picture of me.  18:50 - Lau Lapides (Host) So you know, Annie, what you're saying, I think, is so treasurable, because and you may only meet this person once and not see them again or not see them for a long time but how that photography team makes you feel about yourself is so important. You don't want them to be overly critical, you don't want them to be rushing, rushing, rushing, rushing. You don't want that factory approach, you want a personalized approach. So I would say listen, talk to them first. Get a quick Zoom meet, get a quick in-person meet, if you can.  19:20 - Intro (Announcement) Sure, absolutely To get engaged.  19:22 - Lau Lapides (Host) Do they want to spend a little time with you? Are they going to rush you in and out of the door and not care which? A lot of photographers like that too. Right, Annie, you've met them here's the thing right.  19:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think there's a special skill in smiling right, in smiling for a camera, right, my husband for the life of him. Like every time I tell him to smile, he's like and it's like, really fake. Yeah, it's really fake. Like so many people don't understand how to smile for the camera. Now, it is not a natural thing. I think most people just feel like they have to put on this particular look.  19:51 Now a good photographer and or their assistants are going to be able to make you smile, a natural smile, Because sometimes they'll just say, okay, smile, and you'll be like you know, and that you're not going to like any of your photos because it's not real, so maybe they can tell you a joke and then take multiple pictures while you're laughing Right, and that's usually the good, almost candid shots that I think are always like the award-winning headshots, when you're just like you're like right in the middle of a natural emotion.  20:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Great minds think alike. That conversation, you know this is so funny. There's so much bridge into what we do as voiceover talent. It's like are you authentically real, Are? You talking to the photographer as a person. Are you having conversations, are you?  20:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking about life. Can I just say this? This is absolutely parallel to when we tell people to smile when they're reading copy. Right, there's a difference between smiling like hi, I'm Ann and I'm going to read this copy with this fake smile Notice how I have a fake smile and it's a fake smile and it doesn't sound good because my mouth is like in a position that is not making me sound.  20:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can see it in your eyes too, your eyes.  20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly For me. I'm happy and bubbly anyway, so I can just think a smile. I don't always have to form my mouth in a smile, but if I tell some people to smile, it'll make them sound a little less serious. So notice how, if I'm just like oh my God, like Lau, you just made me laugh, right, that's such a better smile. So what we try to tell you in voiceover when we're saying I want you to smile, I want to hear that smile in the copy. I don't want to hear a fake smile, just as in photography. We don't want to see a fake smile. We want to see a real smile. We want to see real emotion. We want your personality, your heart to be shown and your happiness and your joy.  21:29 - Lau Lapides (Host) And I would use hacks like bring in a prop or have like I have my coffee in my hand right now, because my coffee is kind of like connected to me by the hip you know, I always have a water or a coffee in my hand.  21:40 It just makes me feel like a person. It makes me feel like I'm living life. It's just me, right? But what makes you feel that way? Maybe you'll have a little teddy bear in your hand, or you have a little stress squeezer. We're not going to see it on camera, yeah, just like we don't see it in your voiceover, but maybe I need that so that I can make myself laugh or talk to the photographer about you know, I'm kind of nervous, I'm kind of stressed.  22:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot of people are, and a good photographer will be able to like either make you laugh or get you to be more natural or more relaxed and comfortable. I can't how many times did we go for those school photos?  22:16 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh God, I was thinking about school photos. I can't believe you said that, annie. Do you remember the days where we had the little clip-on animals for our collars.  22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were a thing.  22:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, like my fourth grade shot, I have a clip-on raccoon. It was like yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're still kind of doing that when we get in front of a camera. We're still kind of like deer in the headlights. You have to be careful about that.  22:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I would say even warm up, like my husband, who has the best smile ever when he gets in front of the camera. And, by the way, I will tell you my husband, I got him. He's now hired to work alongside me with one of my brands as an influencer. He's hysterical, he's really great on camera. But whenever I say when he wants to pose to do photos, right, I mean they're like okay, now smile and he'll go and it'll be like the most stiff. I'm like no.  23:02 - Intro (Announcement) Jerry, just like say something.  23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let me just tell you a joke, Jerry oh my God. Remember the other day when we did this, and then I'll get him in the middle of a smile and it completely changes the photo. Yeah, so it's something that how many times can we do a selfie? Right, we can take selfies, we can practice. You can see what you look like when you fake smile. So really, just practice as well, and it's not a bad idea to get yourself a tripod and a remote control little.  23:30 Blippi, that works via Bluetooth with your iPhone or Android so that you can click a picture when you're standing there right and do a pose and then just do multiple pictures and figure out. Oh okay, I like myself when I'm angled like this or when I smile, I can't lift my head up too high, or if I put my chin down just a little bit, right, you can really learn what works for you and I think there's some valuable information in spending 20 bucks and getting that tripod and getting that little clicker, which I think costs $20, if not less, and connecting up via Bluetooth with your phone and, boom, taking the picture, taking multiple pictures and getting lighting, by the way, which won't cost you more than I'm going to say. The lighting that I have won't cost you more than a hundred bucks.  24:12 - Lau Lapides (Host) Put those on tripods, you could even get just a ring light.  24:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Just get a ring light right, I don't love ring lights because I have glasses and I think the ring lights show like they're very obvious. So I have lighting, like I have in my studio, which are like kind of the soft pillowy LED lights that have the big what do they call those? The big puffy like white coverings over them.  24:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, they're like a soft box kind of lighting. Yeah, that's it.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have a soft box, I have two soft box and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window, because then you have the three areas of light which and I make sure that I'm standing in front of a window because then you have the three areas of light, which is critical for good lighting.  24:46 - Lau Lapides (Host) Now I get your secret, Annie. Now I know why you look like you're 18. That's your secret. It's good lighting. Why does she look like she's 18?  24:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is going on with her lighting? Yeah, Awesome. By the way, links. I'll link that in the show notes.  24:57 - Lau Lapides (Host) Love it Eyelines. That's something that know about on-camera actors. Vo talent don't know about that. It's important for you for when you do your photo shoot and that means where my eyes are focused. So in a headshot shoot, they are focused directly at the camera. But the caveat is especially for VO talent, who you're showcasing your business as well. I would suggest you bring to the studio your microphone, your headphones, because they're easy to throw in a bag, you don't have to worry about it and take some of those shots.  25:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Take a cable too. Don't forget the cable, because if you take a photo without the microphone, with a cable, it's very obvious to all of us.  25:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Unless you're a podcaster and you're sitting down, so that's up to you. But yes, take a cable and be in action, and you may not be looking at the camera. You may be looking at your script, you may be in an action shot, which is really great, but your eyeline is going to give away. Are you directly involved in what you're doing or are you not involved with what you're doing? A headshot for an actor should be direct address to the camera, but for a voiceover talent, you'll have that, but then you'll have. You know, maybe I'm talking, maybe I'm doing this, maybe I'm doing that, and that's kind of cool for people to see you in action you know, Good photographer will be able to tell you where to look.  26:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what's interesting is, remember we talked about my droopy eye. Okay, so because of my droopy eye, which became so much more noticeable as I needed a thicker lens, my photographer, she's like okay, normally you are looking right in the camera, but I think I need you to look above the camera slightly because you've got that eye and I'm like yeah, so you'll notice. Right now I'm looking at the camera, laura, right?  26:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) I never knew this. This is news to me.  26:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Watch me, now I'm looking at the camera Now I'm going to look slightly above the camera, and it makes a difference, right? Oh my God, that's crazy. Right, it makes a big difference See.  26:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) I have known you for how long? A couple years.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I never knew that. See, now everybody's going to be looking at my eye. They're going to say, oh, droopy eye, no no, it's because it's a choice.  27:04 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's all your choice. Oh, I love it. Talk about strategy.  27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And guys, I mean here's the deal. Like I so much put myself in front of the camera every day when I was young and I had a very severe case of lazy eye where I was almost blind, so my eye was in the corner, this bad eye, the one eye that looks bigger, it was very much in the corner, and when I get tired, right still, my good eye does all the work, even with glasses. Oh, how interesting, because it's been trained since the year three yeah, the year three of my life, since I've worn glasses since I was three and so even with glasses, my good eye does all the work.  27:36 So when I get tired this eye, it will tend to kind of go a little bit in the corner, and I notice it all the time. A little bit in the corner and I notice it all the time. I mean, I used to get made fun of it and so you may think I'm completely confident in front of the camera. But I know, like I know okay, my eye will tend to drift if I'm tired or I might have to like really like pay attention to look a little brighter. That's right, but it's good to know yourself.  27:57 It's good to photograph yourself sake of vanity, but for the sake of knowing you and feeling good about yourself in front of the camera. That, I think, has done wonders for me over the years, because before I did a bunch of on camera teachable moments and those sorts of things, stuff that I put out in social media I wasn't on camera a lot and it was something that I had to practice, that to get much better at. And talking to the camera is something that is important for your headshots. Addressing the camera and it's kind of like really thinking about hi guys, you know I'm looking at the camera and like you're really speaking to somebody, just like we do behind the mic. Right, we think about speaking to someone as we're behind the mic. So think about speaking to someone behind the camera and that will engage your face, it will engage your personality, it will engage your heart and it will help you take a better photo. I am convinced of that.  28:48 - Lau Lapides (Host) God, what a great convo this is. I wish I had this convo for myself 30 years ago. One more thing I want to make mention. This is great how you figured out how to like cheat all the insecurities and all that stuff.  29:02 But I do want to say, I do want to say to all the folks that are like, yeah, I don't know how to do that, or I don't know if I'd get over it, or I have this or I have that, we love imperfection. Yeah, we love it. In fact, we look for it, we hire it and we work it. So if you have anything that you consider to be outside of a norm or outside of a convention, whether whatever it's a lazy eye or whether it's this or that, don't feel the need to hide it, don't feel the need to put it aside, shout it from the rooftops.  29:32 Now we're actually looking for people I have droopy eye who have all these so-called imperfections right which are real person stuff.  29:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that can be a really great thing it is and hopefully that's relatable to some. I mean, maybe not everybody has droopy eye, but there's so many people are like you're always so together.  29:52 - Lau Lapides (Host) I'm like, really I got a droopy eye.  29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know I try to be but I got a droopy eye, but that's okay. Yeah, but they don't care, they don't care, they're attached to it. Here's my imperfections, guys. I mean I don't want to. I don't want to be a picture of something that I can't ever achieve. That kind of thing you don't want. A goal that you can't ever achieve.  30:09 That's a good way of putting it Like let that photograph, let that headshot bring out the best in you, showcase the best in you, because every one of us has a beautiful, beautiful quality, every one of us is beautiful. And have that confidence, like remember you were talking about that?  30:23 Hollywood had a term for it Ugly beautiful people, the beautiful ugly and I don't even think I think everybody's beautiful, I don't even like the word ugly. I think everybody's beautiful. They all have a beautiful quality, everybody has a gorgeous voice. They have a unique quality that connects us together as human beings and connects our hearts together. And so, guys, you are beautiful and you are absolutely a face for photography and a face for a headshot and a face for VO, absolutely.  30:49 - Lau Lapides (Host) And there's many companies out there that really exploit that. They really celebrate that. I can think of an amazing agency in New York Funny Face Talent, real person talent. There's probably a bunch of them out there that they want you to think, oh, I have a weird face or I'm not beautiful looking. Oh well, we're going to get you a lot of work because a lot of people relate to you. Right, there was an actor, annie, who was this actor. He was very big In the early 2000s, he was a heavyset guy and he had this eye condition where his eyes fluttered up and down.  31:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I'm not sure.  31:26 - Intro (Announcement) And you saw him in a lot.  31:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) He was a regular on X-Files, huh, and he was a fantastic actor and his eyes fluttered up and down. It was amazing to watch him work in different roles and how he utilized that condition to go right into his roles and to sort of infuse the energy in his role. Some of his roles were scary. Some of his roles were demonous. Some of his roles were good. Some of his roles were like fatherly, but he always used it in his favor. He never tried to hide it.  31:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I thought that was it. I mean, that was cool. Be out there and be confident, guys.  32:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) Just technically. One more thing I want to throw in, and that is when someone shoots you, a professional headshot photographer should be giving you everything they shoot. They'll go ahead and get rid of all the shots that are like the in-between shots, the blurry shots, the shots that really like you're not in position but they really like Annie was saying she's kept 500 shots, maybe they did 1,000 shots.  32:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I keep them.  32:30 - Lau Lapides (Host) I can do a little cropping myself. Yeah, one of the mistakes, annie, I see people make is they'll show me what their shoot looks like and I'll see watermark on everything. And I say be careful of that, because when they shoot you now it's changed they used to own those, they no longer own those. So when they shoot you and you get 200, 300 of your best shots, those are yours, those should be yours. Now, if they're going to edit you and you're going to pay to have them edit which a lot of people do then they're going to charge money for that, as they should at their time. But otherwise, those are your shots and you should be able to keep those shots Absolutely.  33:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your property and they should be up in color. You don't do black and white anymore. Guys. Make sure you get all the shots if you want them, and they are yours. All right, excellent conversation, La. I loved it. Guys, I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL. You too, can connect and share like bosses, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, bosses, and go get your headshots, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  33:28 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne Ganguzza (00:00.93) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza and I am here with Tom Dheere for the Real Boss series. Hey Tom, how are ya? Tom Dheere (00:10.978) Hello Anne, how are you doing? Anne Ganguzza (00:14.208) You know, Tom, I am a little under the weather today. So, yeah, and you know, I'm so like attuned to, you know, how I sound in the booth and I'm a little bit nasal. And if I'm not 100%, I can't record, Tom. So, perfect time to talk to the bosses about what do you do when you can't record auditions or you can't record for your clients? I mean, there's lots of stuff you can do, I think, to... Tom Dheere (00:17.472) Yeah. Yeah, I could hear that. Anne Ganguzza (00:43.246) move your business ahead, so let's discuss. Tom Dheere (00:47.971) Okay, well, there's a number of things that you wanna keep in mind first, which is how you sound in your head doesn't necessarily sound like what you sound like when you listen to the playback on your audio. Oh, no, I did notice, it's a stitch off, but also, yeah. Anne Ganguzza (00:56.173) You Anne Ganguzza (01:00.717) But you noticed, but you noticed, Tom. So you noticed I sounded not like myself, yeah. Right? And even a stitch off, can't do, because you can hear a little bit of that, Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah? Tom Dheere (01:13.568) Yeah, well, you've also known each other for years. We talk all the time. So like, you know, you would, you'd be able to pick up if I wasn't feeling well either. So, so being in tune with your, with your, with your body and all that stuff, and then reconciling that with the reality of what do you sound like from on the outside? Because in your, in your skull, there's all these resonating chambers, you know, in your skull, in your turbinates. and what you hear when you talk doesn't Anne Ganguzza (01:34.988) Yes. Tom Dheere (01:43.166) sound like what other people hear who are outside of those resonating chambers. So you gotta give yourself a little bit of latitude and grace on that part. Anne Ganguzza (01:52.6) Yeah. You have to have a benchmark, I think. And you know, Tom, that's so interesting that you bring that up because it's kind of when we talk about when people record and then they listen back and they say, ew, I don't like that. And then they re-record 100 times over. It's because what they hear is not what other people hear. And so you have to be familiar enough and know yourself enough so that you can create a benchmark for when your voice is sounding pristine. And also when you're acting and you're not sounding like you're Tom Dheere (02:13.719) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (02:17.206) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (02:21.483) reading something or sounding kind of fake. And so yeah, that ear takes a lot of time to develop. But I will definitely tell you that, yeah, I can tell that my voice is not at its best right now. And so that is one of those things that there are so many things that we can do, probably all the things that you guys don't necessarily want to do, but they're all the things that really help us to move forward and market our businesses. Tom Dheere (02:24.897) Right. Tom Dheere (02:48.705) Right. So I always recommend the first thing you do is find out what projects you have do, what are the deadlines and what's the dynamic of the relationship with each of those clients. I mean, we all try to get our projects done as quickly as possible. So we meet our deadline, you know, the old under promise over deliver thing. And that also just gives you that much more time to do other things and that much more quality of head space to be like, good, I did that. Now I can look at the the next project or audition or whatever. like, also you want to look at the genre of voiceover that you're doing. Like for example, a 15 second commercial takes 15, you know, takes 15 seconds to record. You're doing multiple takes. So in short form stuff like that where you can just record the whole thing over and if there's a retake of a change of a sentence or a word, you can just do the whole thing over again because it takes so little time. Anne Ganguzza (03:18.273) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (03:35.169) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (03:45.185) Right, exactly. Tom Dheere (03:46.271) If it's something long form like an e-learning module or an audio book, it's not good if you sound different within a chapter or within a module. Slounding a stitch different from module to module or from chapter to chapter in an audio book isn't the worst thing in the world. It's obviously not ideal, but you can get away with that. But what you want to do is check your lines of communication. Anne Ganguzza (03:53.441) Yeah, it's hard to match. Yeah. Tom Dheere (04:15.52) with your clients. Now, the second you get a sniffle, you don't send a newsletter to everybody. Don't do that. Anne Ganguzza (04:22.861) No, but I got a job. I got a job this week and I had to send an email right away and say, look, I am fighting this cold and I'm very nasal right now. Can the client wait, you know, a couple of days? you know, guys, bosses out there, people are very understanding. We're all human. There is this, you know, wretched thing that's going around this cold. And so I think most people are understanding if they can be, and especially if you've got clients who depend on you and know you and have worked with you before. I don't think it's gonna kill your career if you tell them that you have a sniffle. Tom Dheere (04:58.715) There's only a handful of genres where the deadlines are so tight and so important like promo, for example. Commercials have a little more latitude because once you record the audio, they still have to either drop it into the existing video or animation, or they still need to create the video or animation that your voiceover will get applied to. So sometimes there's like weeks, you know, because at worst they can take your takes and drop them in there. Anne Ganguzza (05:06.784) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (05:28.66) or they can use a scratch or you can say, okay, this is a scratch track. This is me with a cold. And next week when I feel better, right. Well, there's also, there's also that too, but you gotta be careful about that because if you, if you sound like that in the audition and you book it and then you feel better and then you have to record it, you may not sound the same either, you know, so be, so be aware of, deadlines and genres and stuff like that. But there may come points where you actually just need to Anne Ganguzza (05:30.253) Yeah, You can say, if you're looking for that raspy, sexy voice, I've got it right now. I'm happy to record that for you. Yeah, if you have a retake. Exactly. Exactly. Tom Dheere (05:58.473) suck it up because you just have to do it. Anne Ganguzza (06:01.015) Well, that's the thing, Tom. I mean, we are human. mean, sometimes we get sick. And the first thing I do when I get sick, I immediately, like if I can, I immediately take off. I immediately just book out and I talk to my clients if I have any outstanding jobs and I let them know what's happening. And then ultimately, I'm like in bed. I'm trying to make sure. that I can get over this as soon as possible. I don't try to tough it out. mean, back in the day, I don't know, I used to try to tough it out and, no, I can handle this. But in reality, because our vocal instrument is such an intrinsic part of who we are in our product, I am bent on getting healthy as soon as possible. So I'm taking all the meds, I'm going to bed, I'm getting my rest, and I am not pushing myself so that I can get healthy quicker so that I can start working again. Tom Dheere (06:24.865) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (06:52.107) Right. And let's let's talk about things you can do. Rest is number one. Vocal rest as well as bed rest, hydration, hydration, hydration. You know, whether you're no matter how you're feeling as a voice actor, should you must always be hydrating. I have I have coconut water every single morning before I sit down. Also, because like, there you go. I got a glass. Mm Anne Ganguzza (06:56.354) Yes. Mm-hmm. isn't that the truth? Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (07:13.227) I have my big old water bottle. Three of them a day. Three of them a day. Tom Dheere (07:18.402) I have a glass of water at my side every day and then I have coconut water in the morning because also in the middle of overnight, you're not hydrating because you're sleeping. I do that as well because like I'm at my desk in the booth, 730, pretty much every morning hitting the ground running with auditions. And, you know, I want to make sure I am as loosened up and warmed up as possible. Anne Ganguzza (07:25.185) Yeah, exactly. Anne Ganguzza (07:39.054) Well, also I want to say that during this time of the year when it's colder out and you have heat on, the heat will also dry you out incredibly. And so if you have a humidifier or you have like a mask or a face mask that you know, that can put steam up into your face or sometimes I just put my face into the dishwasher after it's finished running and then the steam comes up. So take a hot shower, that steam will really help to moisten. Tom Dheere (07:49.343) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (08:08.779) moisten things and try to be careful when you're coughing or you know using your voice because it can it can do damage to your vocal cords and you don't want that for sure. Tom Dheere (08:16.546) I mean, it's also sounds cliche, but getting as much vitamin C in you as possible. lots of juices, lots of citrus and things like that. That always helps to keep your protein. Anne Ganguzza (08:22.87) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And going outside, even though it's freezing cold, sometimes going outside because of the moisture in the air can, for just a little bit, I mean dressed up warmly of course, but for just a little bit can help you because a lot of times the internal air, as I mentioned, circulating air in your house can be very drying. Tom Dheere (08:33.526) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (08:44.867) Absolutely. mean, I'm sure our bosses have other secrets and remedies and other ways of doing it. So we would obviously love to hear your suggestions and comments as well. Anne Ganguzza (08:55.714) Well, I will openly blame my husband. I love you, Jerry. Who had the flu and I ran around with a can of Lysol and saying, I'm not gonna get sick, I won't get sick. And I didn't get the flu, but I did get this cold. So unfortunately his turned into bronchitis, which again, it turned a little more serious. But you know, and I'm just kind of thankful that I'm getting over this cold. However, I did have to put some clients on notice. Tom Dheere (09:11.65) Hmm. Anne Ganguzza (09:23.789) And then I started thinking about all the other things that needed to be done, right, for my business so that I could continue as I was feeling better, right, and I couldn't rest 24 hours a day. But I had some time that I could go attend to some marketing skills, attend to some organization skills on my desktop, attend to some courses that I'm in the middle of taking, and workshops and practicing. And so there's a lot of things, guys, that you can do. when you are not feeling well to still continue to move your business forward. Tom Dheere (09:56.865) And that reminds me of something. This is something I tell all of my students, whether you're ill or whether you're healthy, you want to learn to listen to your body and listen to your brain and listen to your heart and see what they tell you. And the practical application of that is figure out the times of day that you are vocally at your best. Anne Ganguzza (10:08.151) Mmm. Anne Ganguzza (10:21.921) Yeah. Tom Dheere (10:23.54) and when you're not, there are some people who I'm very fortunate within 15 minutes of me waking up, I can be in the booth and busting out auditions and bookings. I'm very lucky. Some people don't have that. Sometimes they need hours to hydrate and feed themselves and get their protein and their energy up before they're ready to get in the booth and do their thing. so check out when you're vocally at your best and when you're not and try to wrap your day around that when it comes to auditioning and booking stuff. But the other thing is you also want to gauge when you are creatively at your best throughout the day. Now, that could also go hand in hand with vocally at your best because you want to be creative to make strong acting choices when you're doing your auditionings and your bookings. But what I'm talking specifically about is stuff like social media, blogging, Anne Ganguzza (11:14.327) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (11:19.725) Mm. Tom Dheere (11:21.282) crafting newsletters, crafting cold emails or follow-up emails. You're gonna be at different creative levels throughout the day, just like you're gonna be at different, you know, vocal healthy and just overall physically healthy and energy level throughout your day. So keep an eye out for when you're coming up with really good ideas and keep an eye out on when you're really struggling to just write, you know, just write a couple of sentences that you're gonna post on. Anne Ganguzza (11:31.703) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (11:49.038) Sure. Well, and let me interject. Yeah, let me interject that not only it's good to know like when your creative times are, but it's also you don't have to worry so much about like, I'm going to write an email and then send it out because there are schedulers and there are times when it's good for people to receive your, you know, your content that you're creating or those emails. And so the nice thing is that we can always schedule out the things that we're doing when we're the most creative. And so I Tom Dheere (11:50.966) some social media platform. Tom Dheere (12:09.698) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (12:16.961) That's it. Anne Ganguzza (12:17.833) I'm very creative in the morning when I get up. And so I can go ahead and craft like 20 emails and then I can schedule them out for later. So that's a good time for me to write in the morning and also write blogs. I have certain days that I create content on video. So that's typically in the afternoon and I have to schedule in, well, when am I gonna do the hair and makeup? because I need to be camera ready. So that's a time as well. And if I'm not feeling well, maybe, actually this week I did a whole series on what do I do when I'm sick? You know, for my video shorts. And so I still, the nice thing was is that I was able to, I was feeling well enough that I could at least get a little dressed up. and feel a little more human than I was feeling earlier in the week. So it was a good time. I was able to keep on that video schedule, but sometimes you just have to cancel that and then work on other things. And I also had some courses that I was taking where I'm trying to improve my skills in other genres. And so I went ahead and watched videos. I went ahead and practiced, you know, I practiced scripts and it was something that I didn't have to actually audition for. So it was fine that I could practice. And it really worked out well for me to get all those things done that I had on my other list of things to do, which I kept putting off because I kept thinking, well, other things are more important. So it was great for me to catch up on all the things on my list of things to do for improving my own self. And so it's funny because a lot of times I'm like, let's take care of my clients first, which is where I think most of your business needs to be. but then also self-improvement, right? Self-improvement. Watching those videos, watching those workouts, learning from other people, joining other groups and mastermind groups and that sort of thing, which are the things that I usually myself, because I'm so busy doing all my other things, I tend to put aside. So I was able to really address all those things on my list, which was really wonderful. Tom Dheere (14:24.762) Actually, I'm so glad you said that because that complements perfectly what with what I said So find out when you're vocally at your best find out when you are creatively at your best and then find out when you are neither vocally nor creatively at your best and those are the times when you balance your checkbook pay your bills Anne Ganguzza (14:43.853) Yes, yes, exactly. Tom Dheere (14:46.377) generate and reconcile your invoices, do the required and, you know, not so much fun, but extremely important administrative clerical things to do. And also that's also the times exactly what you were just talking about is the self-improvement times to watch videos or learn practice copy, you know, but without having to worry about what you sound like. Anne Ganguzza (14:49.259) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (14:55.937) Yeah? Yeah. Tom Dheere (15:09.856) you know, in a finished output, it's more about what's my intent, what are my choices, you know, maybe play back to it and listen to the intent and the choices and the emotional arc of whatever without actually necessarily keep taking stock in the vocal quality because you're not vocally at your best at that given time. Anne Ganguzza (15:26.541) And also too, what's cool is that creative refresh. You I always talk about like, I like to watch good movies. I like to watch good movies because it gives me inspiration and motivation. And a lot of times that helps me with my career. It helps me with my voiceover. So if I'm not feeling, I'm really feeling kind of bad, I can like sit on the couch with a blanket and watch Netflix and watch a good movie and be creatively inspired. Tom Dheere (15:50.785) Now that's a good, that's a really good point. you know, bosses remember we are actors, we are performers. We need to see what other actors and performers are doing and how they're doing it because we all know casting trends change all the time, but so do performance trends change over time. And watching what the, you know, one of the top Netflix Anne Ganguzza (16:05.527) Yeah. Tom Dheere (16:17.29) ranked shows are, like last night we watched American Primeval, which is some pretty crazy old west stuff, but there's some just top notch acting from actors I've never even heard of before. But to be able to take that in and listen to their nuance and their subtlety, or when they're being huge and melodramatic and is it part of the character, right? Anne Ganguzza (16:17.495) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (16:21.311) Mmm. Anne Ganguzza (16:37.538) Yeah, watched, yeah, I watched Emelia Perez. And so, which was a really great movie, by the way. And it like, it shocked me and surprised me. It was great. It really was, it really was a good movie. And then I watched, my gosh, now I'm trying to remember the name of it, but it was the series with, my goodness, Sophia, my God, what is the name of it? Now I'm gonna have to like, Tom, I'm gonna have to Google it. Tom Dheere (16:42.004) okay. Tom Dheere (17:03.351) Ha ha. Anne Ganguzza (17:03.553) But anyways, I started that series because I'd heard a lot of things about how great it was. And it was really nice because it got me inspired in terms of seeing the world in a different way and listening to actors do their thing and really become inspired by that. Tom Dheere (17:18.846) Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you should, bosses, take notes. Have a notepad or have your phone or tablet or laptop with you if you're, you know, if you're in that, okay, I'm not feeling too well. I can't really do any auditions right now. I'm caught up on my invoicing. Let's do a little character study. Let's do a little, you know, acting genre study. And, you know, if you're in anime, if you want to get into anime, it's a great excuse to watch the latest anime show, which you... Anne Ganguzza (17:32.225) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (17:46.022) yeah, absolutely. Tom Dheere (17:47.297) You may be watching anyway, but the pair of eyes and ears that you have change when you are, know, Griselda, okay. Yeah. So you have this one set of eyes and ears on when you're watching or listening to something to enjoy it. And then you have a different set of eyes and ears when you are listening or watching something to learn from it. You know, so, you know, watch that, you know, watch that Anne Ganguzza (17:53.442) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It was Griselda, by the way. I just looked at, yeah, Griselda, yeah, really good series, yeah. She's wonderful. Anne Ganguzza (18:08.705) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Tom Dheere (18:15.37) Classic Akira movie or ninja scroll or something like that classic anime But but don't don't do it just to be entertained by it like listen to the acting choices and how do the acting choices affect the animation and how do the animation affect the acting choices and and vice versa you can learn a lot if you are because you you a lot of people come into voice over because they're a fan of Anne Ganguzza (18:17.653) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (18:27.083) Sure, absolutely. Tom Dheere (18:40.193) the genres that they want to be in, cartoons or video games or whatnot. But it's also critical that you are a student of the industry and the genres as well. And that requires a different, it's a different discipline when you're taking in that kind of stuff. So if you are feeling under the weather, put your school cap on and pull up at your school desk and learn and take notes as if you were gonna be taking a quiz. Anne Ganguzza (18:41.931) Yeah? Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (18:46.221) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (18:54.615) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (19:00.959) Yeah. And here's old school, watch commercials. If that's the genre you wanna work in, watch commercials, don't fast forward. And I've said that multiple times, especially current commercials, because then you're gonna really be aware of the current trends, what's happening, what's out there. And especially now in the new year, right, we have a change, obviously. in our administration. And so there's going to be maybe trends and changes that will happen in advertising and in commercials and in the genres that we're going to be working. So really keep your eyes and your ears peeled out for that. Do some research. Do some Google on companies and look at how they're advertising to people. That can be a really great education when you're not feeling well. Tom Dheere (19:42.496) Mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (19:50.029) Yeah, there's a difference between a commercial that you see on TV and what you hear on the radio and what you see in streaming and what you hear in between podcast episodes and Pandora and Spotify. These are, even though they're all technically the same thing, they're commercial voice actors, you know, different lengths. Anne Ganguzza (19:56.578) Yeah. Digital, Anne Ganguzza (20:10.401) Different lengths, different styles. Mm-hmm, yep. Exactly. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tom Dheere (20:13.494) different audiences, different formats based on the milieu or the medium of whether it's a TV commercial or a radio spot or a streaming. listen to those and again, take notes, notice the difference. Like radio spots, for example, we talk a lot faster. You know, so, know, just things like that. Anne Ganguzza (20:31.246) Yeah, Absolutely, absolutely. And you carry more of the story because there's no visual there, right? And so, exactly. And I'm always telling my students, because a lot of students, they're like, so what is the difference between this genre and this genre? Especially when we're talking about nuanced genres like corporate. Corporate explainers and corporate narration. What's the difference between corporate narration and a commercial? Well, you've got longer time to tell it. And typically, corporate narration is still a sell because you're talking about a company. Tom Dheere (20:37.525) Right. You're more. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (21:01.003) and companies are there to sell. So you can really kind of study if you look at the nuances of how things are marketed, how commercials are run versus how digital media is run versus how we listen to Pandora or SiriusXM, how those commercials are run. You can really hear the difference in how, within the mediums, how these advertisements are presented. really... There's so much that you can do. It's incredible, Tom, that we even get in our studios at all to do voiceover work, because there's so much stuff that you can do in the meantime to educate yourself, to prep yourself, to be ready for whatever you might be asked to do in your voiceover career. Tom Dheere (21:48.759) Yeah, that's one thing is a lot of people think that it's all about auditioning and booking and auditioning and booking and that's what their whole career is and it's not because you're running a business and there's so many things that need to be done in so many different ways and you know everything is important. mean obviously the auditions are critical but you know so is generating and sending an invoice because if you don't send the invoice you don't get paid and what a better time to do that, right? Anne Ganguzza (22:10.487) Yeah. And your website is important. Absolutely. SEO. Social media is important. However you're reaching out to your potential clients is important. so you can have the best little voice in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you, and you can't make a living. And so really understanding what are the other aspects of this business. Tom Dheere (22:16.431) website maintenance, marketing research, lead generation. Anne Ganguzza (22:41.71) that you need to have in place so that you can make a living and you can pay the mortgage. mean, gosh, it's the end of the month. And every month I'm like, oh, I gotta contribute to the mortgage here. And so ultimately, right, my business needs to keep moving forward. I need to keep finding clients. I need to keep improving my product. I need to keep thinking of innovative ways that I can get out in front of people so that they can hire me. They can hire my services. Tom Dheere (23:09.696) Well, now that we've talked about that, I hope you feel better. Anne Ganguzza (23:12.333) Well, thank you, Tom, and yes, bosses, keep healthy. And of course, you know, I do sell a wonderful product, actually, which does help, right? This is my vocal spray. I have a couple of products, and here's a shameless plug for my vocal spray. My vocal spray does help, and as a matter of fact, I should probably spritz some now, but it does help keep your voice healthy, although unfortunately, nothing is 100%. I wish that were the case. I wish I had like, here's the ultimate cure. that you'll never get a cold again. However, if you do have a cold, you may not suffer as much. So that also can be found at anneganguzza.com of course, just being sensible and taking good care of yourself and knowing that, especially because our products are a part of us and a part of our body, I that just makes it so much more prudent that you take care of yourself and that you are doing everything in your power to be healthy. All right, bosses, I'm gonna give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses like Tom and myself, real bosses. And you can find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  

Anne Ganguzza (00:05.233) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to be with very special guest, Luanne Regis. Luanne is a veteran voiceover agent and talent agency executive with over 30 years of experience. Her career spans everything voiceover, all voiceover, including... heading up scale departments at two LA boutique agencies, running the celebrity division at a top bi-coastal theatrical and commercial agency, as well as launching her own Chicago voiceover department in 2007. After a year at Sound and Fury Casting, she now owns and operates her own talent representation agency, Regal V.O. Luanne, thank you so much for joining me today. Luanne Regis (00:57.621) and thank you for having me, Anne. Anne Ganguzza (00:59.929) I love this. So I had such a wonderful time meeting you like fleetingly at MAVO and was so excited to get the chance to talk to you and work with you as well. You're gonna be coming up soon as a guest director for me on my VO Peeps group. So I'm very excited about that. And so for bosses that don't know who you are, give us a brief, kind of a brief. Luanne Regis (01:06.115) Yes. Luanne Regis (01:16.777) I can't wait. Anne Ganguzza (01:26.981) bio of you more than what I've given in regards to your evolution through the years as a talent agent and representative. Luanne Regis (01:37.067) Sure, of course. So I'll try to be brief because it is quite a long speech. And you know, voiceover, just, people ask you, how do you get into voiceover? And I'm like, I sort of really just fell into it, which I did. You know, back in the mid nineties, I answered an ad, they were looking for a voiceover assistant, an agent, and one of the partners at a boutique agency was looking for an assistant. And I thought, this is great. Let me just try this. And I quickly liked it. I liked the fact that Anne Ganguzza (01:41.124) Ha ha ha ha! Luanne Regis (02:04.703) The voice can really be anything. It has nothing to do with your aesthetic, what you look like, how tall you are, what color your hair is. I loved that. That to me was a very creative aspect for VoiceOver. And I started there and quickly became an agent, a scale agent, and was there for about five years. I have seen the business really, really grow and change to... And right around the early 2001s when all of the theatrical agencies were getting into voiceover because they poo-pooed and they snubbed their noses at voiceover for so very long, a major theatrical agency wanted to have a voiceover department. And so they plucked our entire department from the boutique agency, which was Special Artists, which is where I worked since the mid-90s. And we took our entire business, SpongeBob and all, and set up shop at Innovative Artists, which was the Anne Ganguzza (02:56.229) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (02:58.751) Bicoastal theatrical agency that I was at for 16 years, including what you mentioned in my bio, starting a Chicago voiceover department for them in 2007, just after the birth of my daughter. So I was there for 16 years and you wake up one day and you have 800 clients because you represent not only, we came with not only our voiceover department intact with all of our amazing clients, but we also were there to represent. Anne Ganguzza (03:00.314) Yes. Luanne Regis (03:26.591) their clients and they have a really healthy roster, a very well known TV and film actors. And that's where I began doing celebrity and overscale voiceover and really enjoyed it. But you know, like I said, you wake up one day and you have 800 clients and that's a lot to manage, especially in the way in which I agent. I was taught voiceover agenting by one of the best, she's a mentor, Marsha Hurwitz. you know, it's... Anne Ganguzza (03:29.735) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (03:43.441) Yeah. Luanne Regis (03:52.321) All hands on, it's more like a manager. It's not just submit an audition and whatever happens happens. It's you pitch, you sell, you call producers. We don't do that anymore because the business has changed. But you're on the phone, you're calling producers, you're selling people, you're saying, I think you should really listen to Nancy Smith. She's really good on this read. That's the way I voice over agent and it's really impossible to do that with 800 people. Anne Ganguzza (03:55.589) Yeah. Luanne Regis (04:20.641) 800 clients on your roster. So I went back to my small boutique agency, Roots TGMD Talent, which is formerly Tishman Agency. the owner, Kevin Motley, who's a dear friend of mine, had recently sort of reshaped his agency, gutted all of the promo and trailer announcer type guys, which was an avenue in which advertisers weren't going down anymore. And we built a really great roster of actors, well-known actors. Anne Ganguzza (04:28.993) Yep. Luanne Regis (04:50.761) working actors, which is all I know. I know about actors in voiceover as opposed to voice actors. And was there for four years doing that until the pandemic. And then after the pandemic, I thought, you know what, I want to try my hand on the buyer's side. I always wanted to try my hand at being on the other side of the business, not just rapping. And so I worked at Sound and Fury, which is one of the, if not the top voice casting companies in the entire country, if not the world. Anne Ganguzza (05:14.928) Mm. Luanne Regis (05:18.941) And you know, really enjoyed my time with that team. They're like a family to me. And I missed representing talent and agenting. And so after a year, I decided to go back to it, but do it on my own. And believe it or not, I kept a lot of clients with me even as I left the agenting side and went over to the casting side because I have a a really lovely roster of very loyal talent. Some of them I've had since I started in the mid 90s and you know they were very sad to see me leave the agenting side. So they sort of held on to me even while I was on the casting side and once I decided to jump back they were like well we're still here for the ride let's go and that's how I sort of built my roster, my independent roster I should say and again it just they just come at me. I have agents and managers and Anne Ganguzza (05:56.687) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (06:13.909) theatrical agents and commercial agents just wanting to work with me and they throw all their clients my way and I don't refuse them because I love to Anne Ganguzza (06:21.827) love that, I love that. You know, it's interesting because, you know, as we're talking, you're kind of going back and forth between casting and agent and manager. And, you know, for the benefit of our boss listeners, what is your definition of the difference between the responsibilities of each? Because I think it's important for us as voice actors to know when we're trying to develop relationships, you know, to understand. what is encompassed in your job because that makes us able to communicate with you easier and help you, because I really believe it's a partnership no matter what you're really looking for. And so I think it will help us as voice actors to work with agents or casting directors better. Luanne Regis (06:57.664) It is. Luanne Regis (07:06.443) Well, the reason why, and that's a great question, and the reason why the transition from agent to casting director back to agent was such a seamless one is because a lot of what my job entails as a voiceover agent is casting. We work with casting directors, but agents also work directly with buyers and producers, and they come to us looking for talent. And we sit there and cast. Anne Ganguzza (07:22.287) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (07:28.657) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (07:33.555) in pretty much the same way a casting director who gets paid to do it does it. I sit there, I go through my roster, who's right for this? And I do essentially do a casting. And so a lot of my agenting is casting, but that's just sort of like the day-to-day job of a voiceover agent. Again, back in the day when we had booths and actors would come into our lobby and read and have, you'd be distributing copy, you know, back in the day, pre-pandemic and all that. Anne Ganguzza (07:41.307) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (07:48.07) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (07:58.631) Look at Luanne Regis (08:03.611) A big part of my job also was directing talent, not just sitting at a desk and agenting. I would go into the booth. I need to know what my talent does. I need to be able to sell that person. So in order to do that, I'm in the booth, I'm directing, and I really, really love that directing process because it's, again, it hinges on such creativity. It's so creative. They get to play around. I get also to play around with them in terms of what they can do, what their range is. Anne Ganguzza (08:07.974) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (08:15.109) Right. Anne Ganguzza (08:21.264) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (08:32.991) And that's how I know what my clients can bring to the table so I can effectively sell them. So it's casting, it's directing, it's obviously selling. It's very managerial as well because I'm, like I said, very, very hands on. you know, like for instance, many times I go into the booth with a client and we'd spend an hour in there if we have the time. And the last five minutes of that hour really is recording the copy and auditioning. Anne Ganguzza (08:46.767) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (09:02.342) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (09:02.561) but the previous, how many ever minutes, spent catching up. How's your wife? How are the kids? How is life? How's your mom doing? Stuff like that. That's how you get to really know clients because what they share with you in the booth, you bring that to you as you're casting. You bring that to you as you're selling them. You have to really know them inside out. That's more of a very managerial, I think, position as an agent. Anne Ganguzza (09:08.646) Right. Anne Ganguzza (09:16.238) Right. Luanne Regis (09:30.641) not all agents agent that way. I just learned to do it that way. So it's manage it's managing talent. It's selling talent, agenting obviously, but it's also casting and directing talent in the booth. And then of course your negotiations skills come into play. Your knowledge of contracts, your knowledge of legal, legal procedures, as far as contracts go. That's all encompassing as a voiceover agent. Anne Ganguzza (09:33.484) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (09:48.355) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (09:54.34) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (09:58.767) It's such a broad base of that you need to have. And you said something before that I thought was so interesting. You said you had been working with, and it really, I think it goes to show the evolution of the business. You talked about actors who did voice acting rather than voice actors. And so I caught that little tiny nuance right there, which really speaks to your amount of time and experience in the industry. Luanne Regis (10:00.82) It is. Luanne Regis (10:16.416) Yes. Yes. Luanne Regis (10:23.829) Yes, yes. Anne Ganguzza (10:25.509) Because how often, like what would you say, I guess now in your, because you've been in business for so long, you must still, I suspect, deal with actors who do voice acting, as well as voice actors. And what are your thoughts on how you work with, let's say, actors now who do voice acting, or voice actors differently? Do you spend as much time, or how does that work today? Luanne Regis (10:33.877) We will. Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (10:53.737) The reason why for me, it's actors in voiceover, not only was I brought up in the business knowing that, because when I started at Special Artists, they were mainly a commercial, on-camera commercial agency, and this predated me, obviously, but when they started their voiceover department, they used their on-camera actors as the basis for their voiceover department. Anne Ganguzza (10:56.25) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (11:10.118) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (11:21.253) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (11:21.853) I come from a track record where the agents who taught me used actors and put them in voiceover and made them successful. The voice of SpongeBob, Tom Kenny, was a comedian, an actor. We put him, he made that transition because of how talented he is. So I do feel voiceover is not just a voice, you're acting. Anne Ganguzza (11:29.339) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (11:35.44) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (11:49.35) Sure. Yeah. Luanne Regis (11:50.529) You're bringing copy to life. You're selling copy, but you have to bring it to life. You have to connect with the product. You have to connect with what the words are saying. So at the end of the day, it really is about acting, which is why I favor having someone who has an acting resume, someone who's done work, because they have a certain measure of experience that they can bring to the voiceover table. Anne Ganguzza (11:59.761) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (12:08.358) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (12:15.463) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love the emphasis on acting because even for something like I specialize in a lot of the corporate e-learning, the non-broadcast style stuff, but in order to really bring that material to life, and sometimes it needs a lot of help, just saying, because it can be a little bit dry and boring, you have to, I mean, every company, and I think whether you're dealing with commercial, Luanne Regis (12:27.894) Yes. Anne Ganguzza (12:41.959) Right? Any type of copy. mean, if you're dealing with a company or a client, they're ultimately, I mean, unless you're doing entertainment, right? Ultimately, they're trying to sell something. And so there's always a story. I good companies, I would say that, you know, it's marketing 101 that, you know, stories really sell better than, you know, Luanne Regis (12:49.375) Right. Absolutely. Anne Ganguzza (13:03.322) cold heart announcing facts sort of thing. And so if you can be the actor that can tell the story or understand the story that the company wants to sell or tell, that's gonna help them to sell. So I love the emphasis on acting. Luanne Regis (13:04.437) Yeah, yeah. Luanne Regis (13:14.749) Absolutely, and it really, you're absolutely right. When you say, a story, that is really what it is. I was telling actors yesterday, you have to, when you get a script, you create a narrative behind that script that those lines will support. Whether it's right or wrong, it's truthful and it's authentic. But you do have to connect with the product. You do have to connect with the lines. You do have to connect with the script. And the only way you do that is if you make it part of a story that you're telling. Anne Ganguzza (13:36.142) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (13:45.703) Yes, absolutely. And I think that's what so, at least with students when I'm working with them in the corporate narration or the e-lin, like what story? I'm delivering information. I'm like, but there is a story and you have to keep the listener's attention for longer than 30 or 60 seconds. This is not a 60 second commercial. And so even if I... Luanne Regis (13:58.849) We resist. Luanne Regis (14:04.372) You too. That's right. Anne Ganguzza (14:08.642) I think if the story doesn't make sense, right, if they're reading the words and they're like, well, I would never really say that, or you know, you have to create the scene in which those words make sense. And I guess my question to you is, what would you say is the main difference between on-camera acting and voice acting? Luanne Regis (14:17.173) That's right. Yes. Luanne Regis (14:26.939) on camera acting, you have so much more at your disposal. You have what you look like, you have the physicality of being on camera. And this is why I love voiceover, because with voiceover acting, you have to basically emit all of that just vocally. Whether you're in the booth and you're, you where you see the animation characters, they're in the booth and they're using their hands and all that, that's all well and fine, but that does not translate on camera in the way it Anne Ganguzza (14:31.59) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (14:44.708) Yeah, yeah, through your voice. Luanne Regis (14:56.417) would if you were an on-camera actor. really does have, so again, we go back to is telling that story. If you have a story to tell, it's gonna come out in the words, it's gonna come out in the smile, it's going to come out in the warmth that you bring out, or not the warmth, or the cold, or whatever it is, the stories that you're telling. But it all comes from the heart, it all comes from here. Anne Ganguzza (14:57.062) Right. Luanne Regis (15:22.313) as opposed to you being able to use your hands to gesture in a way that conveys whatever you're trying to convey in an acting, you know, when you're acting. Anne Ganguzza (15:26.49) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (15:32.231) So what would you say when you're working with talent? time is precious these days, so I imagine that you probably don't have as much time to work with talent, let's say on a job or an audition, as you would. What are the types of things that you find you're telling your talent to do most in terms of, know, either following direction better or their performance-wise? What are the kind of tips or tricks that you're speaking to most? Luanne Regis (15:40.437) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Luanne Regis (15:59.487) Yeah. Well, it does vary from project and script to script, obviously, but a lot of it is what I just said, you know, creating that story, creating that narrative. A lot of times, and this specifically relates to commercial copy, a lot of times you get a script and you have no idea what the storyboards are. You have no idea what the visuals are. You just have maybe two or three lines and you sort of have to put it together. At that point, you have to make a very specific creative choice. This is the story I'm going to tell. Anne Ganguzza (16:02.171) these days. Mm. Anne Ganguzza (16:18.566) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (16:25.562) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (16:27.957) So that's one tip and we just spoke about that. There's a lot of non-announcery, non-polish, non-slick directives nowadays and I always have to tell my clients, so here's what I want you to do. I don't want you to think about yourself on mic. I don't want you to think about yourself up there as a speaker or as an announcer saying something. I want you to sit and talk to a friend at a bar and you say what you need to say and you come from that place. so that we can get you conversational, we can get you casual, and we don't have you coming out of the box like you're making a grand announcement. A tip, a trick I use sometimes is I will have them slate their name after they've done their session, after they've done their audition, because once you slate your name, Luanne Regis, you sort of go into this, okay, I'm here, I'm announcing mode, I just want you to tell me what you have to say on your copy, you can save the slate for later. So that's just one of the tips that I use. Anne Ganguzza (17:05.296) Sure, sure. Anne Ganguzza (17:17.808) Right. Anne Ganguzza (17:25.06) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (17:25.375) you know, the conversational thing, just sort of like bring it back home. If it's something that I feel they need to be a little bit more intimate with, I give them situations like, I want you to read this bedtime story to your six year old, or I want you to sit with your child and have a one-on-one conversation with him or her. you know, I just give them a place from which to emote so that we can bring that emotion into the copy. Anne Ganguzza (17:48.752) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (17:52.803) Speaking of emotion, find, for me, just on longer copy, because if you have a particular energy or emotion and you continue for over a minute or two or three, with that same energy, it doesn't necessarily allow the story to flow. And I feel that people might get into the rhythm of this particular emotion or this particular... Luanne Regis (18:03.958) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (18:14.887) Energy and I feel with with any good story right energy in your story changes and evolves and it can evolve throughout like the course of one sentence even and the energy you start with in the beginning or the story that you tell in the beginning isn't necessarily the same story that's happening or evolving when you're halfway through or three-quarters of the way through and for a lot of for a lot of my students I find that you know if they're if they forget Luanne Regis (18:25.502) Absolutely. Luanne Regis (18:37.152) Right. Anne Ganguzza (18:44.119) about the story halfway through, then it starts to turn into this kind of just into this, let's news, news broadcast read or, you know, something like that. And so in the middle of the script, do you ever have to kind of redirect or give another scene to help this through? Or are you finding that for the most part, you're working with with top caliber actors that already are doing that or have done that? Luanne Regis (18:51.041) Yeah. Luanne Regis (19:09.279) Yeah, know what, an actor is gonna find his or her way, again, depending on the story that they want to tell. The seasoned actors, the really good actors understand how to flow in and out, how to make a change, or how to sort of navigate around certain things. And I'm glad you asked that question, because one point I really wanna bring to mind is sometimes when you're directing talent, I can't tell you. Anne Ganguzza (19:13.723) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (19:18.042) Yeah. Luanne Regis (19:37.663) Yes, I can give you a line reading. Yes, I can tell you how to do it. But I want you to color it the way you would color it because that brings a certain uniqueness that no one else will do. You might put a pause in the middle of the copy for effect, or you could take a beat, or you could do a slight, And someone else will not necessarily do that. that... Anne Ganguzza (19:39.748) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (19:44.613) Right. Anne Ganguzza (19:50.395) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (20:02.822) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (20:02.827) Completely changes the way that copy gets conveyed to to the audience. So a lot of times it's it's what you do specifically and not me directing you into that read because I want it I sort of wanted to come from you I want you to bring that that authenticity to it because at the end of the day authenticity is what will May not book you the job, but it will have the producer go. Wait a second. What can we hear what? And that's what you want to do Anne Ganguzza (20:27.787) Mm, it might get you on the short list. Luanne Regis (20:31.357) Exactly. That's what I'm glad you said that I was seeing this exact same thing yesterday. It's like, yes, you want to book the job, but don't focus on booking the job. Focus on wowing whoever's listening, focus on making an impact. So maybe you weren't right for that job, but perhaps you bring you back in for something else. Anne Ganguzza (20:42.17) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (20:48.133) Yeah, yeah. And also I think then you're really, especially if it's an audition that you're submitting to your agent or casting director that is very familiar with working with actors in regards to, well, okay, it can showcase right away that you're an actor. And if you're an actor, you'll be able to follow direction no matter what the direction ends up being. Cause I have a lot of times people will say to me, but that's not what I hear in the actual commercial. Luanne Regis (21:00.321) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (21:06.037) Yes. Anne Ganguzza (21:16.229) you know, it sounds completely different. And, you know, I'm always like, well, you know, it really depends on who's directing you at the time and what the client is listening to and what they hear in their head as being the way they want the copyright. So you have to be versatile enough to be able to take any direction. I've turned in for me as a coach, I've turned to almost saying, well, here, I'm coaching you on how to get the gig, not necessarily on the final product, because Luanne Regis (21:17.878) Thanks Luanne Regis (21:22.251) That's right. Luanne Regis (21:28.415) Yes, yes. Luanne Regis (21:45.429) Right. Anne Ganguzza (21:46.129) Coaching you to get the gig is gonna make you the most authentic actor that you can showcase in the first or second sentence. So for me, Luanne, coming in in the first or second sentence is so important with a connection to the copy. Talk to the importance of maybe that, the first few words that come out of the actor's mouth or in the copy, how important is that? Luanne Regis (21:50.145) That's right. Luanne Regis (21:58.719) Yes. Yes. Luanne Regis (22:10.145) very, very important because again, when I worked at Sound and Fury and we got 800 casting, 800 auditions from one casting, they're listening and they know right away if this person's gonna nail it or not. So you wanna come in just hitting the mark immediately. even, obviously I don't have 800 clients, but you see that process with a casting director. They don't have the time to listen to the entire script if they feel you didn't hit it within the first. Anne Ganguzza (22:24.079) Mm. Anne Ganguzza (22:28.027) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (22:39.929) Or maybe not even hit it if you didn't do something in the beginning that made them go. let me keep listening because time is money and they do have to get through all of these these auditions and the same to a certain extent with me I mean I listen to every single audition all the way through but I know by the second or third line if someone has nailed that piece of copy or not just because obviously I have the the experience in the years of the instinct but again, it's that You can't put your finger on it. It's that je ne sais quoi. It's like, yeah, let me keep this. wow, she did that? Okay. It really is important to nail whatever you want to nail at the beginning of the copy as opposed to saving your best for last. Anne Ganguzza (23:24.047) Yeah. Now, I love that you said you listen to the auditions all the way through. Now, why? Why do you do that? Luanne Regis (23:32.085) For several reasons. One, and you said something that I wanted to sort of bring back to the forefront, so I'm glad you asked that question. A lot of times, again, I'm a casting, I'm sort of a casting director when I age, because I'm putting people on stuff and I'm wondering, is she right for it, is he right for it? I have to listen throughout the whole thing. One, because it's my client and they've done the audition and I need to hear what they did, they may not be right for it. Anne Ganguzza (23:33.732) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (23:48.848) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (23:54.715) Mm. Luanne Regis (23:58.805) That way I know, you know what, I'm not gonna put him or her on this anymore because I don't think they're right for it. Or I hear something that they do and I think, you know what, I've got something else that, I've got a different role that I think she's right for. I don't think I put her on the right role. I think I need to get her on this other one. So it gives me a clue. It clues me into what my clients can do, what they can't do, even as well as I know them, even as much as I know their range. Anne Ganguzza (24:04.314) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (24:23.494) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (24:25.481) I still am learning a lot about them as we go along. So it behooves me to listen to everything that they do. Anne Ganguzza (24:33.53) so interesting. I love that you listen all the way through because it shows that you really care and that you really care about your clients and you care about making the best fit and really choosing the best person for the job. That just requires a lot of, think, integrity and I love that. I think that's amazing. Plus, I think it's so interesting because maybe even... Luanne Regis (24:36.417) Mm-hmm. It does, yeah. Yeah. Luanne Regis (24:47.359) Yeah. Luanne Regis (24:52.883) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (24:57.946) You know, people that you've known for a long time, I mean, we continue to grow and evolve and learn and discover. I find with myself, like, I discover new things about myself and it impacts, right, my acting in the booth. And, you know, in lots of different ways where all of a sudden I'll be like, well, gosh, I've been doing it like this for years and goodness, I should have maybe thought this way. And it just will bring something different out in me, which is kind of cool. And so that's just kind of being the lifelong learner sort of. Luanne Regis (25:02.678) Yes. Luanne Regis (25:12.607) Yes. Luanne Regis (25:27.05) Yeah! Anne Ganguzza (25:27.483) you know, always trying to grow my skills and craft. And you think like, well, have I reached this point? Well, now I've done it and I'm an actor. But I feel like you never quite reach the point where you're never not learning. Luanne Regis (25:31.583) All right. Luanne Regis (25:42.129) No, you always are learning and you're always trying new things and I'm always learning things about clients. I'm like, I didn't know you did that. That's good for me. I can sell you in a different way now. it's a learning process on both ends. Anne Ganguzza (25:49.508) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (25:53.05) Yeah. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (25:59.142) So the sell, okay? I wanna talk a little bit about the sell. When you're trying to sell a talent, what is it when you're communicating with a client for a particular spot? So what's involved in the sell of it on your end? I'm just curious because I've never, I mean, I've cast people, but I've never really been had to like, hear my choices and then the client will ultimately make the... the end result, but when you're really trying to sell a talent, like what goes, what sort of qualities are you selling in the talent? Luanne Regis (26:36.605) So you're talking about me selling to a buyer a casting director or okay? So then it would it depends on if it's the buyer's a casting director or if the buyer is the actual buyer the producer the the ad agency or something You know if it's a casting director. It's because I want that person to understand He can do this what you're asking what you're asking for me to cast for you This guy can do this so I need you to Anne Ganguzza (26:39.876) Yeah, to a buyer, yes, yeah. Anne Ganguzza (26:45.766) Mm-hmm. buyer, right, Yeah. Luanne Regis (27:05.161) I send links, send if it's stand-up comedians they're looking for, I send a link to their stand-up. One of many different ways I keep all of my auditions, so I will curate a specific sample of voices so that they can hear. For instance, if they're looking for something specific, I go back and I pull auditions that they've done for that specific character and I said, listen, here's what he's done for me in the past. That's one tool I use to sell. Anne Ganguzza (27:20.75) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (27:32.622) Mm. Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (27:32.833) And that's to a cast director if I want to convince her that this client can audition for her on a project if it's a buyer the actual buyer the producer the ad agency or Yeah, well, it would be the producer of an ad agency because if it's animation is it's casting directors You know again, it's showcasing what they've done before showcasing the stuff that they've done showing them listen to this Anne Ganguzza (27:40.218) Got it, got it. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (27:48.357) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anne Ganguzza (27:55.206) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (27:59.647) I know you're looking for a guy that can do this. Listen to him right here. He's done this before. He's auditioned for this before. He's actually booked this before. Here's a spot that he's done. And you might want to listen to this. So that is, that's what I'm pushing when I'm speaking to producers. Sadly, don't get, don't have, agents don't have that direct link to producers anymore. It's really become so remote now and remote, in the sense of remote recording, but. Anne Ganguzza (28:12.003) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (28:16.624) Got it. Luanne Regis (28:27.433) remote in the sense of we're far removed from these producers. I used to be able to pick up the phone and call a producer at Leo Burnett and say, listen to Nancy, she's really great for this. You want to hire her. And they would hire her. But they themselves, the producers, they're removed as well from their clients. Now it's the client, Walmart, that has to make the decision. The producer used to be able to make the decision before. Anne Ganguzza (28:30.181) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (28:47.59) Sure. that's a, I'm so glad you made that distinction because I think for a lot of voice actors, they don't really know what happens once they submit that audition. then what is, like what's, how does my audition traverse, you know, to either get to the ears of the person who's hiring and who is the person that's hiring, right? You know, because I think if you're my talent agent, right, and I'm auditioning for you. Luanne Regis (29:03.478) Yes. That's right. Luanne Regis (29:11.638) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (29:17.219) What I love and what I've heard from you is that you must have a little file of me where you're keeping all my good auditions and you're keeping all the spots that I've done and I like that, right? You didn't just trash my audition if I didn't work for that particular spot, but you're like, okay, so you've got like bits and pieces of me there. And then, so if you're working with another, let's say, casting director, right? You can then send those files and sell me in that way. But then if you're actually talking to the client directly, Luanne Regis (29:22.527) Yes. Yes. Luanne Regis (29:28.619) Nope, keep everything. Luanne Regis (29:43.236) Right. Anne Ganguzza (29:47.342) Which is something I'm like, well, I've not been in this process. I speak with my clients directly, but probably not on the scale that you do because you're working on a broadcast scale. So I have a client that I've worked with for years and they'll ask me, who do you think would be good to do this for me? And I can refer, which is. Luanne Regis (29:55.937) you Luanne Regis (30:00.394) Right. Luanne Regis (30:05.569) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (30:09.817) on a small scale compared to what you do. Because you're talking to big time producers and agencies that have multiple projects going on. And so for me as an actor, I never quite know what happens once I submit that audition. So it's really nice that you just kind of explain that process. And the fact that you said you don't always get to talk to the producer like you used to be able to, which is what I sometimes I assume and I don't really know. Luanne Regis (30:11.457) Yes. Anne Ganguzza (30:36.548) you know, depending on the agency, depending on who it is and what your relationships are, which I think it comes all down to relationships. But you're right, now even the producer is removed because it really comes down to like, let's say the client Walmart or whoever that might be. So that's a very good thing to know from my perspective. Luanne Regis (30:42.518) Yes. Luanne Regis (30:53.621) And I'll tell you the reason, I'll tell you the reason for that, Anne, and I want to make sure people understand this because it was a very drastic change. think the reason that I was able to, first of all, be able to pick up the phone and call a producer and they would actually book, or the producer would call me and say, who do you have for this? We need to cast this job right away. Who do you have? book David Pasquese. He'd be great. And they would hire him. So how many ever years, 10, 15 years ago when, you know, the big Anne Ganguzza (31:09.666) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (31:15.611) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (31:23.113) ad agencies, the DDB Needhams, the Chiat Days, you the big ad agencies, they had the bulk of the work, they had the majority of the work. And as time went by, these smaller agencies started picking up work. So the ad agency now sort of lost the power to be able to make that decision because they themselves are trying to hold on to their accounts. So they no longer can say, I can hire you for this Walmart voiceover. Anne Ganguzza (31:25.37) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (31:29.821) mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (31:41.527) Mm-hmm. Yes, yes, yes. Makes sense. Luanne Regis (31:49.953) they now have to check with the head of marketing or whomever at Walmart. That never used to be the case. They used to be able to pull that trigger and go, great, let's hire him. That's no longer the case. And I do firmly believe it's because of that change over in, in work, a lot of ad agencies lost clients, a lot of ad agencies are afraid of losing their clients. So they're really at the disposal at the mercy of their clients to make every single decision. Anne Ganguzza (31:52.944) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (32:20.359) That's very interesting and that really speaks to this, think also the size of the industry over the years that has really increased greatly. Luanne Regis (32:21.248) Yeah. Luanne Regis (32:25.183) Yes, yes. It has, yeah. No, it has. You've had a lot of these smaller or maybe ad execs from ad agencies sort of offshoots and go off and start their own small companies, and they're now getting the big jobs. They're now getting the big work as opposed to those big multimedia conglomerate ad agencies that they're not really getting those accounts anymore. Anne Ganguzza (32:41.616) Sure. Anne Ganguzza (32:46.544) Right? Anne Ganguzza (32:51.686) Well, and now also I think technology, mean, gosh, technology has certainly evolved over the years. And now a lot of times, like you said, you'd meet in the, and I from back in the day when I would go to a studio for a callback, and gosh, that's almost not the case too much anymore. But I miss the days when you would see all your voiceover friends in the lobby. And even though you'd kind of be a little bit nervous, you'd all be like catching up and seeing people you hadn't seen in a while. Luanne Regis (32:55.179) Yeah. Luanne Regis (32:59.188) It has. Luanne Regis (33:09.491) I know. Luanne Regis (33:14.185) Yeah. Luanne Regis (33:19.137) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (33:21.375) And I kind of miss that. with the digital evolution and people having their home studios and the internet and I think a lot of those agencies too, mean, went online, am I not correct? Yeah, yeah. Luanne Regis (33:23.497) Yeah. Luanne Regis (33:34.943) They sure did. They sure did. Yeah, they really did. And to speak a little bit, I'm just going to hear my pet peeve about that. Again, I remember a day when ad agency would hire a studio here, hire a studio in Chicago, hire a studio where they are, and they would connect. Now that cost, because we've had a situation like the pandemic where everyone sort of had to get set up to record from home, a lot of ad agencies haven't gone back to that, gone back to hiring studios. Anne Ganguzza (33:49.52) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (33:59.366) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Luanne Regis (34:04.277) they figured out a way, wait a second, we don't have to hire a studio. We don't have to incur that cost. We can keep that budget under control and pass that cost on to the actor. That's one of my biggest pet peeves of the consequence of the pandemic where actors have now had to become engineers, incur their own costs for studios. I'm like, wait a second, you would hire a studio in New York and Los Angeles back in the day. We're like, how is that? Anne Ganguzza (34:29.489) Yeah. Luanne Regis (34:34.37) What do I know what you're doing. Anne Ganguzza (34:36.282) Yeah, and they're not necessarily, you know, claiming, I am correct in the assumption, they're not necessarily saying, well, hey, I've got a home studio. I should be charging for that studio. I should be tired. Theoretically, right, they are, but I don't know anybody that really, like, has a line item that says, hey, this is my studio cost, right? Luanne Regis (34:45.825) No! Luanne Regis (34:53.957) No, no, the actors sadly have had to fall in line, you know, and now we've gone, it's just everyone is now remote studio required, home studio required. I'm like, wait a second, you would hire a studio back in the day. I just think it's unfair because now the actor should be concentrating on his audition and he should be concentrating on the creative aspect. He should not be asked to upload stuff. He should not be asked to be an engineer in his own session. You know, it's just the way of the world now. Anne Ganguzza (34:58.35) Yeah, it got absorbed. Anne Ganguzza (35:03.504) Yeah. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (35:23.567) It is such a luxury to be directed even in my home studio now. It's just, and it's lovely for, I will say at least they're Source Connect so that an engineer can take what I'm doing back here in my home studio and engineer it and I don't have to upload and he can just take it. That is a luxury. And also the fact of actually having a director is a luxury these days. And I love it. And I kind of wish we went back to it. Luanne Regis (35:27.403) Yeah. Luanne Regis (35:39.711) and do his own thing. Yes. Luanne Regis (35:47.198) Yeah. Luanne Regis (35:52.757) I know. Anne Ganguzza (35:53.33) And you never know, mean, maybe that will happen, maybe that will not, but I think in the end, right, is it not all driven by the customer, right, the client, like it's Walmart, like what do they want? And so ultimately, what type of voice are they gonna look for? How are they gonna hire? And I think that's something as a voice actor, we need to consider the business aspect of it, because how are we going to kind of shine in front of all of... it seems like obstacles, maybe not obstacles, but there's so many paths to getting hired these days, you know, and yeah. Luanne Regis (36:28.031) Yes, there are. And let me go back to a question you asked earlier about what happens when that audition goes off. And it's really important for actors to understand, because you don't book a job, that doesn't mean you weren't on a short list. That doesn't mean that you weren't listened to and someone was vying for you and that just, the client or whomever came in and said, no, let's go with a woman instead of a man. doesn't, you have... Anne Ganguzza (36:53.264) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (36:54.205) I have no idea what happens once it leaves my, you know, my coffers because no one says anything. And then you get on a short list and you have one of five on a short list and that's great, you're excited. And then it just goes away. But for me, that's a win. Like someone listened to you and someone put you on a short list and someone considered you for this job. And even beyond the short list, you don't know who listened and went, wow, I really like him. You know what I mean? It's like, there's so many. Anne Ganguzza (36:57.574) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (37:08.42) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (37:20.496) Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that you brought that up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Luanne Regis (37:23.837) intangibles and actors need to understand that just because you didn't book a job doesn't mean you weren't right for it. They could have changed their minds, changed the specs, changed the age, changed the gender. All of those things sort of are out of your control. Anne Ganguzza (37:36.432) Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (37:39.791) Yeah, there's so many aspects that are out of your control. And I think that's one of the most important things that a voice actor can also do is try to understand that and not let the mental, like, my gosh, I don't know what happened, or I'm not good enough, or that self-sabotage, get to them. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that a lot of voice actors face is imposter syndrome that, because they didn't hear anything, they assume, right? Luanne Regis (37:53.119) I know. Yeah. Yeah. Luanne Regis (38:00.788) It is. Luanne Regis (38:06.399) Yeah, that's right. And by the way, that's another aspect of my job as an agent, to sort of manage their expectations and manage their disappointments. I had an actress tell me last night, she said, you know, I'm really just very dejected and sort of tired and fatigued with these auditions. I haven't had a callback, I haven't had this, I haven't had that. And for me, you know, I need to... Anne Ganguzza (38:15.171) Mm-hmm. Anne Ganguzza (38:19.792) Mm-hmm. Luanne Regis (38:32.841) I do need to boost her up, at the same time, I do need to understand her frustration and it's real. So, you know, my job there is to sort of maybe go, okay, let me reevaluate, reevaluate, excuse me, what I'm sending her. Maybe I'm not sending her the things that she's really gonna nail because at the end of the day, as an agent, you don't want to keep sending an actor hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of auditions and they're not booking because that debilitates them. Anne Ganguzza (38:38.63) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Luanne Regis (39:02.207) So part of my job is almost like a therapist of sorts. It's sort of like manage how they feel. Okay, let's do this then. Let's sort of reevaluate what we send you. Let me pull back a little bit so that you don't feel burnt out. How can I help you? Because obviously I believe in her. I don't want her to just go silent and not do auditions, but I have to kind of hold her hand along the way. Anne Ganguzza (39:06.086) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anne Ganguzza (39:26.727) Right, Sure. Luanne Regis (39:30.187) That's another aspect of the voiceover agent's job, at least mine. Anne Ganguzza (39:31.706) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. this has been such a wonderful conversation, Luanne. thank you. Thank you. Well, it's been a pleasure. And I'll tell you what, I cannot wait to have you as a guest director for my group, for my VO Peeps guys. So make sure you take a look for that coming up soon. Luanne Regis (39:37.824) I love your questions, the way. Your questions are very pointed. Luanne Regis (39:47.711) Yes, I cannot wait. Yes. Luanne Regis (39:54.08) Yes. Anne Ganguzza (39:55.916) And with that, I will give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtl.com. Luanne, this has really been amazing. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Luanne Regis (40:08.373) Thank you, Anne, for having me. I really do love talking about this stuff. Anne Ganguzza (40:13.146) Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye. Luanne Regis (40:16.033) Bye!  

00:01 - Ad (Ad) Anne Ganguzza, you are a true gem. Okay, I am a voice actor, been in the business over 15 years, eight of those full time but, honest to goodness, until discovering the VO Boss Podcast this year, I feel like I've been getting away with murder. I don't even know how I've been as successful as I have been without all the strategies and perspectives and predictions that you make about our industry. I feel like I've been in VO College for like the past six, seven months listening to the VO Boss podcast. It's just incredible and I can't thank you enough. I love you, I love your co-hosts, I love your guests. It's just so full of information that I can put into action for my business and just please keep doing what you're doing, because I feel like I'm taking my business to the next level the boss level.  01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss, talent Anne Ganguzza here with a quick shout out to those who are a little freaked out about marketing. VO BOSS Blast is your secret weapon, making your marketing manageable. Your voice deserves to be heard. Join us at vo boss.com and start your marketing campaign today is the Boss Level marketing campaign. Today, it's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level.  01:30 - Intro (Announcement) These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy to be here again with our resident money gal, Danielle Famble. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, how are you?  02:00 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I'm good, I'm good. How are you?  02:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I am good. You know, it's been a busy week of auditioning, coaching, working, submitting auditions, and I happened to reach out to my agent and it made me think about our series about money and I thought it would be great to talk about the whole agent aspect managers, pay-to-plays, the whole agent aspect, managers, pay-to-plays and about financials when we work with said companies, people. I think there's a lot of myths out there for people that are just getting into the industry or even people who are in the industry. They have a lot of beliefs about managers and pay-to-plays and should I, shouldn't I? What's fair, what's not fair?  02:44 I thought it'd be a great time to talk about that today.  02:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, that's actually really important because these agents and managers are pay-to-plays they're all businesses, right? So they are working within the business model that they have set up for themselves and businesses have costs and so to work with a business, there is a cost there and you, as the VO boss running your own business, you have to think about the cost that you would be paying, the business expenses you'd be paying for having these relationships. So, yeah, it's really important.  03:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's start actually. Let's start with, let's say, somebody's just getting into the industry, and I know a lot of myths about people that just get into the industry. They believe that they need to be able to get an agent right away. And so we can start there to dispel some of those myths. And, by the way, I will say myself personally, I was working full time in the industry for about four years before I got my first agent.  03:36 Oh wow, yeah, mostly because I was doing a lot of non-broadcast work. And so agents, their business, as we were just discussing, right, and businesses are in business to make money. And so if we think about an agent, where is the money right for the agent? How does the agent make money? Well, they get a percentage right of the jobs that they cast and opportunities that they send to us. And if we book that job because they provided us with that opportunity and negotiated on our behalf, they then get a certain percentage of that money and their business model, like any business, right, we want to remain in business, so it behooves them to make money right, to get bookings and to get jobs. And so I guess, Danielle, first of all let me ask you, I mean, in dispelling the myth, I mean, did you get an agent right away when you first got into the business, or what was your entrance into the business?  04:35 - Danielle Famble (Guest) So my entrance I actually came from a musical theater background and I had representation sending me out on auditions for shows, for theater shows, and that person also did rep people who were doing voiceover, who were doing on camera. So I basically kind of moved within that organization from being on stage to being behind the microphone. So in that respect I did start out with representation and then actually moved to a different agent who specialized specifically in voiceover. So that was my trajectory. But to your point and I think this is actually really important, depending on what you're wanting to do, like what genres that you are going into and really like putting your focus in, you may or may not need an agent, especially like with non-broadcast, for example.  05:27 You can get a lot of that work on your own with your own marketing and things like that. So you may not need an agent and there may not be agents who are really focusing in that specific niche to go to and work with them. So I think the question then becomes for the individual VO boss what is your business model? Are you wanting to do more commercials? Are you wanting to do non-broadcast? Are you wanting to do animation? Really, depending on what genres you're really targeting, depends on if you need or it would work best for you to have an agent or representation. I think a lot of people when you hear that they want to work with an agent, it's probably because they want to do commercials mostly, or animation.  06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly. And I'm always stressing to my students that are just coming to me, that are new to the industry, that in reality, I mean you don't need an agent if you're not getting into broadcast right away. I mean you can acquire an agent later on or at a certain point, and most agents, I would say, are only really concerned with broadcast. Why? Because they get paid more.  06:32 It's as simple as that it's as simple as that right it's the money, because broadcast they can get paid based upon the job and where and how often it airs, because they'll get paid each and every time that happens. For non-broadcast it's kind of a one and done. Now all agents are not created equal. I mean there are some agents that are specializing in specific genres. Now I don't know of any agent that really specifies in an e-learning genre, but that's because why it's non-broadcast and it doesn't necessarily behoove them right to focus on that, because it's a one-and-done sort of thing. So the amount of money they're going to make on a non-broadcast job versus a broadcast where they're going to pay royalties, residuals, all that good stuff, is minimal.  07:17 And now I do have an agent that I book a lot of corporate work. I mean they're not going to say no, right, and I'm sure it's working with a company that also books broadcast style commercials and that sort of thing. So they also like, oh, I need a little internal training video or I need a corporate video that's going to be on my YouTube channel, and so I will get those jobs from my agent as well. But to be quite honest, I mean it's not as exciting as if I booked a national commercial. Sure.  07:46 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah.  07:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The money. There is obviously much better there. So that is with agents, right? Well, let's discuss pay-to-plays, right? Because there's a lot of people who are like, oh, we should just direct market, how do I get opportunities? And a lot of people, when they first start out, want to talk about pay-to-plays and so pay-to-plays and so pay-to-plays, as their name suggests. Right is, we are going to pay so that we can play or get jobs and auditions, and so we pay a fee and, depending on the pay-to-play site, they have different business models. So you pay one fee for a particular amount of auditions or a particular level. At this point it used to just be one fee where, oh, you're on the site and you get auditions, and now they've kind of really diversified and have different levels many of them and so, depending on the amount that you pay, you get a different amount of opportunities.  08:36 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Or you get the opportunities at like a staggered time depending. But yes, exactly Like for all of these different companies, as you're saying, they all have a different business model. So really the question becomes like are you willing to subscribe to that company's business model as they have it set forth? You don't have to. There are certain pay to play sites I'm not on because I don't agree or want to participate in that company's business model. It really then becomes a business decision for me and for my business how can I best position myself to win? And if it means that I'm going to be signed to a particular agent or on certain rosters or pay-to-play sites or those kind of things, it really becomes a question for me of like, how do I want to position myself to have my business do the best that it possibly can? And that's going to change. It might change that I change to a different tier at a pay-to-play site or I just no longer use that one at all.  09:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Business models change and that I have seen evolve through the years, because back in oh gosh, I want to say about 2006, that's when I joined my first pay-to-play, which was Voice 123. They have since evolved and grown and changed their business model to now have levels. But in the beginning it used to just be one level and you would set up your profile and based on that profile and the things that you selected in that profile, you would get opportunities for the auditions and you would get those jobs. There was no other than that one feed that they collected for the membership. They didn't collect any additional monies for that. And then I would say, maybe a couple of years later, another one. And well, I should say Voice123 was the first like official voiceover pay to play.  10:21 Prior to that there was like Freelancer you know, Odesk, and those were just freelance type jobs that everybody would just bid on. And actually at that point there was a particular fee which was called an escrow fee, right, that you would pay the company if you wanted to make sure that you got paid, because the biggest issue with freelance work or doing independent contract work, and especially when it's online, is not getting paid. And so as that evolved in the workplace or online, it became a big thing and so companies and this is even before Voice123 and Voicescom, but they started to offer a service called escrow service, where they would pay you and you would be assured that you would get paid and then you would pay them a fee for that and it was called an escrow fee. And so that was adopted early on by the freelance companies. And the thing about all the freelance companies is it became very popular right for freelancers to get work, and so this whole kind of what people today call the race to the bottom right underbidding that's how everybody got their work on a lot of those. And it just became this crazy kind of a model where you know you would bid on something and then somebody would come in and bid a lower price and get the job. And so it became this mindset where it was like, well, I guess if I bid lower I'll get the job. And I think that's what started with the pay-to-plays people talking about them as being bottom feeders right, because people would start to underbid. It was very similar to the model of freelance Odesk, all those models in the beginning.  11:59 And then I think, after a few years and actually it was a few years because for a while Voicescom and Voice123 were the only two in the game and they competed with one another and they both had one level, and I remember Voice123, because they were out first, were always, I think, what people considered to be the standard, and they had a lot more memberships. And then I think Voicescom started kind of playing around with how they would offer jobs, and so they, if I remember in the very beginning, were the first ones. I don't believe Voice123 ever offered anything like an escrow service, but Voicescom started to offer you could pay escrow so that you can make sure that you got paid, and then you would pay them a certain percentage of the fee, and that was prior to any of their managed jobs of today, and so that was always a choice, so you could choose to take your chances and accept the job. And they were hands off, like if you got paid, you got paid, if you didn't, you didn't. They weren't really responsible. And then they offered the escrow, in which case they said we'll pay you and you can be assured you'll get your money.  13:04 And then, ultimately, I think the competition started happening once more. Pay-to-plays came about, like Bodalgo, and there's a couple other ones, voice Over Planet, et cetera, et cetera, and then the whole thing began. And, of course, it's always a point of contention, with everybody out on the forums talking about is it fair, is it right for them to double dip or triple dip, especially with managed jobs? And, danielle, I'd love to hear your opinion on this Double dipping, triple dipping. What are your thoughts? Is it a thing, is it bad? Is it illegal? Is it good? What are your thoughts?  13:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I mean, it's definitely a thing. I go back to my stance of this is the business model of the company that you are or are not choosing to do business with. If you don't agree with it, you don't have to participate in it. Like, for example, for me I am on Voice123. I'm not on Voicescom because I don't agree with their business model, so it is a thing. I don't agree with their business model, so it is a thing.  14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know that it's illegal.  14:04 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I mean, where are the laws saying that they can't do it? But if you don't agree with it, then you can just take yourself and your dollars out of the equation. And anyone who does agree with it or wants to use that platform for their business model, they're free to do it. And I think also for me platform for their business model they're free to do it. And I think also for me when I look at agents or managers or pay-to-plays, it really is. Is my business financially able to recoup the costs that I'm putting into, for example, the pay-to-play? Am I making enough money that the amount of money I'm spending, the tier that I'm on on voice one, two, three, for example is that a good return on my investment? I think that's the same thing for being with an agent, same thing for being on a pay to play site.  14:49 Is this is a business expense? And does my business have the capacity to recoup the amount of money that I'm spending, because I look at all of these relationships as a cost of doing business? And what is the return on investment If I'm spending because I look at all of these relationships as a cost of doing business, and what is the return on investment. If I'm not booking enough and I'm not making enough money to cover the amount in commission that I'm paying, for example, then maybe I need to go and look at how do I get my business to a place where the ROI will be positive. So really you can agree with all these different businesses or not, but really the question is does your business have the ability to get a positive return on investment for the amount of money spent, because it is a business expense when you are working with these companies.  15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And I think, bosses out there, the one thing to really think about is just mind your own business and make your own decisions on whether you want to work with other businesses, and you can certainly get online and contribute to all the all the discussion and all the hype. And is it double dipping? Is it triple dipping? Is it right? Is it wrong In reality? Like people get so like up in arms about the state of pay to plays but in reality, just okay, let them do their business. And you're right, I mean, I am not part of pay-to-plays because, well, some pay-to-plays because I don't agree with their business ethics. So when managed jobs came about with voices, that's when I think, really, everybody started to say that there was double and triple dipping. And I guess you can say that, but honestly, it's kind of like well, I'm not going to stress myself out over it, I'm just not going to use it if I don't agree with it.  16:31 And managed jobs if you think about it and I want to talk to you about management companies too managed jobs is similar. You know, if you think Voicescom, they're charging a fee for your membership and then, in addition to that, if you decide to take a managed job. They're going to handle all the negotiation of the pricing, they're going to handle all the communication with the client, they're going to handle all of that stuff on behalf of the client, and so there is a fee for that. And of course, one of the big things was well, how much is that fee? But in reality, is there regulation on that? There really isn't yet. And so I mean, if you wanted to get into technicalities, have they done anything illegal, right, by charging a certain percentage for a management fee? No, not really. It's a business model. So if they decided to charge 50% management fee, well, that's their business model. And of course, that's a business model as long as we know about it. We can agree or not agree to it, right?  17:18 And as long as we know about it, and I do believe that any company that I do business with and I'm pretty sure it's the same with you, danielle I want them to be transparent.  17:28 And if I feel that a company or an organization has not been transparent with me. That's when I back off and I say you know what? I have a choice here. I mean, goodness gracious, I didn't get out of the corporate world so that I could continue to do things that I didn't want to do or invest in things that I didn't want to invest. I mean, this is why I am my own business, right, I make my decisions that are best for my business, and I can say you know what? I don't need to subscribe to that, I don't need to be a part of that model or have them as my client, and so it's as simple as that.  17:58 I move on my merry way and I don't let it stress me out, but it's good to know from the get-go. If I feel like they're not being transparent, then there's not much they can do to win back my trust. I don't know, danielle, if you're the same way, but that's my personal take on things. If you lose my trust years ago, from the beginning, I don't know if you'll get me back.  18:20 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I think it's also just about like really making sure that you are an informed consumer, because you are then the consumer and they are a business partner in a way. Yeah, so making sure that you are informed. If you aren't asking the questions that you need to ask, or don't partner with these people until you know the answers, also try it. Try it out and see if it works for you and if there is a positive ROI for trying it out or not. But for me, there are certain business partnerships that I just haven't entered into because I don't agree with the business model. Now they can change. My business model has changed. They can change their business model. I mean, we saw, like, the different changes that have happened with pay-to-plays over the last several years. But if you don't agree to it, there are so many other options. That's a great thing is that there's so many other options?  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so glad that you brought that up, that, yes, the business model can change, like our business models change too, and you're right. I'm glad you brought that up because it makes me think about when you talk about transparency in a company. Right, I had a personal relationship with certain members in the community that owned businesses that I did business with, and so I think you're absolutely right. When it comes business to business, that's completely separate from, let's say, a personal relationship and maybe that trust issue that I might have had like. Are they ethical? Are they running their company ethically? And do I believe that they're telling me?  19:42 There's a lot of businesses out there that you know they make promises, and it's one of those things that I think you have to really sit down and do believe.  19:51 We're going to do this, we're going to change our business model, and so is it something that you believe that the company has integrity, that they have morals and ethics and that, again, is probably another podcast episode, but that can have everything to do with. But the fact is is that many of the companies and the vendors that we work with have business models and we choose whether or not to partner with them. So that brings me to you know, speaking of managed jobs, right, what about managers? And I will tell you right now, I do not work with a manager right now, because the majority of my work is on the non-broadcast side and I've always been very adept at getting my own work, and so I've not really felt like I've needed or maybe ever thought a manager would be something that would help my business, although I certainly don't discount it. But I know that you work with a manager, so let's talk about the financial aspect of management.  20:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, so, like you said, I do work with a management company and it's a different business model than agents, like we talked about in the beginning of this episode. So, agents the job that they have booked you on and they negotiate on your behalf they're getting a percentage or a commission from that job With management companies and it really depends on which management company you're working with. But I'll just make a general statement. Really, what they're wanting, that business model is more like managing your career, and they are getting a percentage of your entire book of business, as in everything that you have booked, with or without them actually being the ones who have negotiated it or presented that opportunity to you. And there's a financial implication to that as well, because for me, I look at what is my book of business outside of this relationship with this management company.  21:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So anything that I get on my own anything that I get through my agents.  21:40 - Danielle Famble (Guest) What does that look like and am I willing to participate in the relationship with a management company and is the return on that investment high enough and positive so that I can continue doing what I'm doing and having the robust business that I'm hoping to have For me, having the robust business that I'm hoping to have For me? I look at that from a financial aspect every single month and I am detailed with it because this is it's a business relationship, and is it worth it to me to have the access to the opportunities from this management company, along with the other things that I'm getting with having the relationship with them, getting to speak to people who are incredibly knowledgeable, asking questions about things that I don't know Like? Is that relationship worth the amount of money spent on this commission of my entire book of business?  22:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I was just going to say I think there might be some confusion as to what the responsibilities of a management company are, right, do they take you by the hand you personally, danielle and say okay, here, we think you should work with this agency or we're going to get you job? I imagine that management companies, like overall, have a scope. Or does each management company operate differently, like, do you get personalized attention? Are they taking you by the hand and saying here, danielle, I think you should do this and we're going to give you all these opportunities in this genre, et cetera?  23:01 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I think for me my mindset with working with a management company, working with an agent at the end of the day I look at it sort of like a pyramid or tiered. I am running the business, I am minding the business that pays me, I am running this business, and so I look at this as relationships, not necessarily that I'm abdicating my responsibilities of running the business that pays me to somebody else and they can sort of take me by the hand and deal with it. Personally, I don't feel that that is the business model that I am trying to run for myself. So I think for me it's more about what are the relationships that can be made through the connection of being with this management company not here.  23:47 Just what are they?  23:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) doing for you? Yeah, exactly.  23:50 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Wherever you send me, I will go. It's a partnership and for me, I believe that the way that I can best create the business that I'm trying to create is to partner with people who are much more knowledgeable about certain genres or connections than I am. But I am a working participant in that relationship and not allowing someone to sort of take me wherever I need to go.  24:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of like outsourcing. There's so many ways in which it's similar. It's like outsourcing because you want to be afforded opportunities that you may or may not be able to get on your own.  24:24 And that's the fee that you are paying them. I know a lot of people are like but how are they different from an agency? Well, an agency is one agency that has relationships with clients, right? Or has relationships. Maybe not relationships, but they establish relationships with clients to get job opportunities to then pass on to you. Management companies don't necessarily get specific custom, I would say, opportunities just for you, but they also develop relationships and have opportunities. That would be, I would say, a more broad spectrum than just one agent, right, it could be multiple agents, it could be multiple business relationships and those are the opportunities you are, quote unquote, paying a service fee for.  25:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) And hopefully the idea is that they can coexist and work together, so like the agent model can coexist and work with the management model, so that it's not necessarily a replication, it's almost the Venn diagram of it all, and so there really should be sort of not necessarily just overlap, but an expansion of well, this is what the agent does, and these are the jobs that I get through my agency, and this is what the management company does, and these are the type of jobs that I get through the management company, and also I'm my own business too, so these are the jobs that I'm negotiating for myself and finding through pay to plays or through SEO, or through just the auditions that I have, or my own marketing word of mouth, those kinds of things. And so the idea is that all of these things are working together and you are utilizing the business relationships for each business that you choose to partner with, and at that point then you've built, hopefully, this robust business that isn't dependent on just one business model or one relationship.  26:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you just narrowed it down to just relationships, because in reality there's a lot of people that would say like, well, I did all the work in getting that job, why should I pay someone? Why should I do? And in reality it's really all about the relationship right. The better you can work with as a partner and the more income that you can bring to them, the more they're going to try to bring to you, and I think that relationship is a cycle One feeds the other, and I like that.  26:40 - Danielle Famble (Guest) You just said work with them, because a lot of people, I think sometimes, especially when you're wanting to get any sort of representation, agent, management what have you? It's like you're working for them, you're doing things for them, or they should do something for you, exactly. And this is a it's got to be a partnership. Do something for you, Exactly, and this is a it's got to be a partnership.  26:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely yeah. Whether you're talking manager, you're talking agent, maybe, I don't know, pay to plays I'm not sure. If you call that, I mean a partnership.  27:11 - Danielle Famble (Guest) really, I don't know if you call it a partnership exactly. I think it's a tool, it can be a resource, for sure.  27:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, but I would definitely consider agents and managers to be relationship partnership. Pay-to-plays are a slightly different model where I wouldn't say it's as customized. It's about as customized as it can get by the algorithm that gets you the opportunities.  27:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah and again, all of this is really about the business expense of it all, because all of this costs money. So if your business is not in a place where this expense is bringing you a positive ROI, I would go back to training making sure your demos are up to date, making sure that you are the person who's going to be able to book those jobs, so that you would be able to pay these commissions and everything else. Because this really is about is the work coming? Are you able to book those jobs that you can make the money?  28:00 to pay the commission to all those things Exactly.  28:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's funny because I was thinking about that, as it's kind of the beginning of the month and I have to pay my VAs. You know, it's kind of like every month, boom, I pay them, I pay them, I pay them, and it's like this expense that I've gotten used to where it's like, oh okay, there's my outgoing expenses, I do it every month. And the funny thing is is like I think about myself, you know, 20, some odd years ago, when it would be like, oh my God, I can't afford to put this kind of money out every month for an assistant. And the funny thing is is I do it without blinking right now. You know I pay my assistants on a monthly basis and boom, and immediately it just and so I've got that. I don't know. I've got that cycle going where I'm getting a return on my investment and so I have the money to be able to use that as an expense every month.  28:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Absolutely. I was actually thinking the same thing because I very recently paid my assistant. It's like automation yeah exactly, and it's one of those things where I think about and I'm constantly I mean I'm so tuned into the financials of my business to the point that we're actually remaking our back-end system.  29:03 We use a completely separate back-end system like a CRM system, and one of the things that was most important to me is that the reporting was dialed in, because I want to know how much is coming in and all of that is coming from work that has been booked from me, my relationships with the agents, managers, my own clients, all of those things it has to have a positive ROI for me to be able to keep this business running, yeah yeah, good stuff.  29:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, I feel like we could have five episodes on that. Yeah, all right. Well, thank you so much, danielle. I cannot wait to talk to you on our next podcast. In the meantime, big shout out for All right. Well, thank you so much, danielle. I cannot wait to talk to you on our next podcast. In the meantime, big shout out for our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and make money like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and look at that ROI, and we will see you next week.  29:55 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Have a good one everyone Bye, bye.  29:58 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Christy Harst, founder of Building Doors VO, joins BOSS Anne Ganguzza to share her journey from an aspiring journalist to a champion for gender diversity in voiceover. Her story highlights the importance of perseverance, self-belief, and the power of engaging in collaborations with industry talents. In a bold step to challenge industry norms, Christy leads Building Doors VO, a campaign to amplify female voices in traditionally male-dominated fields, such as sports promos. The BOSSes highlight the importance of community support and the ongoing fight for gender equality in voiceover.   https://www.voboss.com/special-guest-christy-harst 00:01 - Testimonial (Ad) Hey, Anne, just wanted to let you know that I got a chance to listen to the entire podcast with Pilar, part one and two Fantastic interview. Found her very interesting and really enjoyed the entire thing. Thanks so much for the Boss podcast.  00:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you new to VoiceOver and not sure where to start? Join the VOPeeps VIPeeps membership and get access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded classes, a 15% discount on all VO Peeps, guest workshops and free monthly workouts. This membership is perfect for those wanting to get started in the industry. Find out more at vopeepscom slash join-now.  00:47 - Intro (Ad) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am privileged and honored to have special guest voiceover actor and the creator of the Building Doors campaign, Christy Harst Yay.  01:22 - Christy Harst (Guest) Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity.  01:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, Christy, I'm so excited. I feel like we're soul sisters here.  01:32 - Christy Harst (Guest) You have better makeup, but yes, Well.  01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll tell you what. It is wonderful to have you on the show because you're doing amazing things and I want the bosses to know about them. So for those bosses that don't know who you are, let's kind of start at the beginning. Talk to us a little bit about your career. You've been in this industry for quite a while, so tell us a little bit about how you got started.  01:54 - Christy Harst (Guest) Sure, thank you. I appreciate that. I majored in broadcast communications and I was supposed to be the next Barbara Walters in case you didn't get the facts in the 80s, it turns out that after an internship at MTV, I saw what women had to do and who they had to be to be at the top and it wasn't something I was willing to do.  02:12 So I pivoted, if you will, and had a career a traditional nine to five career, if you will, in marketing, pr and event planning, la-di-da-di. And I always felt this pull and this tug when I would listen to the radio and I would hear these people and I would say, oh.  02:28 - Intro (Ad) God.  02:28 - Christy Harst (Guest) I can do it so much better than them. Oh my God, it's so painful. And so one year I made a New Year's resolution to get an agent and I did and I didn't get one audition. So the next year I said, well, forget them, I'm going to go get another one. And I got another one. And I was with that agent for 17 years. I booked national campaigns, I did a lot of on-camera.  02:49 That was BC before children, and once my husband and I decided to have kids, we decided to build a studio in the house in the basement and I booked national campaigns from there as well. And now I'm on the first level of the house with a studio brick, so I feel like I'm no longer a basement troll.  03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's something to be said for those basement studios though. I mean I had one. I mean we don't have basements here in California and they make great studios they do, that's for sure.  03:15 - Christy Harst (Guest) No, they do, they do, and mine was very makeshift.  03:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But hey, I did it. I mean, I'm just saying that was the only noise really when that went on.  03:26 - Christy Harst (Guest) I always used to have to run and manually turn off the HVAC, go and do work and then go run and my kids would be like it's so cold, it's so cold, I'm like I'm not done, recording I'm not done. And then, most recently I would say in the last five years actually, five years ago I went to my first voiceover conference and it was in Columbus, ohio, and it was something called the Mid-American or Mid-something and I knew no one. I knew absolutely no one and I ended up there meeting. Listen to all the heavyweights that were there and I had no clue. So Roy Yolkerson was there, joe Cipriano was there, mark Scott was there it was his first conference ever that he was teaching a class Rodney Salisbury was there, jmc was there, all these people and I had no idea. I had no idea who any of these people were.  04:16 So I was late getting to some of the breakout sessions and there weren't that many left to pick from and the only one that was left was Joe Cipriano's promo class. I didn't even know what promo was and I was like, oh gosh, fine, I'll go into this one. There was only me and like three other people and AJ McKay was in there running it and I went up and did it and I was hooked. I was like you mean, I can say five words and each word is like a different story. And I'm done, I'm done, that's it. I love it, because I don't do audiobooks. I'm not a marathon runner.  04:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I am a sprinter Right.  04:54 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. And so from that point forward I was kind of like, oh, I really think I could do this, and so I ended up working with Joe. We flew to New York. I'm in Cleveland, Ohio, but we flew to New York and recorded a demo for Network Promo and Joe is wonderful. Oh my gosh, he's amazing. He really is. He's so gracious. He's a wonderful teacher.  05:13 - Intro (Ad) And.  05:13 - Christy Harst (Guest) I learned a lot from him. Absolutely and it ended up being nominated for a SOVA and I was the only woman in the category. I lost to Dave Fennoy. But again, if you're going to lose to somebody, that's right Lose to Dave Fennoy, right?  05:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely.  05:34 - Christy Harst (Guest) Who is also an amazing human being. And then after that I started to try and explore promo and so on and so forth. And I am a former college athlete, I am a former head varsity coach, my kids are both terribly athletic and my bank account shows it, and we're a sporting family. We choose to go to sporting events for almost like our staycations. So I said why don't I do sports promo, like that's a perfect way to match my passion and my ability and my talent? And for a good three, four years I invested in training, I invested in workshops, I invested in demos and it wasn't getting me anywhere and I just was getting really frustrated.  06:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So why do you think you did all the things right? You did all the things right, you got your training, and you trained with some of the best. You got your demos, and so what do you think was the issue? What was not happening, and see, that's the fun part.  06:25 - Christy Harst (Guest) That's where Building Doors, a campaign that I started, really was birthed, because I didn't know. I was doing everything that everyone told me to do. Sure, I was doing out-of-box marketing. I was creating fan videos where I voiced them, I wrote them, I created them. I was doing all of the things that you're supposed to do Email marketing, cold calling, all of the things, and nothing was moving the needle. All of the hard things.  06:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of the hard things, yeah, but you know I enjoyed it. And yeah, I was going to say, and something tells me that you did it with full force. Oh yeah, Not even like 100%. I feel like you did 150 to 200%. I just get that about you.  07:00 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, well, you know, when I sink my teeth into something, I don't let go.  07:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm right there with you. I feel that.  07:05 - Christy Harst (Guest) Why not Like? Why, If you're going?  07:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) to do it, do it all the way.  07:08 - Christy Harst (Guest) And so I had signed up for a promo workshop with a prominent promo LA agent, a woman, and during that workshop I did a read for her and she was like, yeah, book, it's great book.  07:19 And I was like you know what? Okay, stop, I'm not booked. I'm never booked and I'm not repped by one of the larger agencies, so the access to those opportunities are even smaller. So what are my chances? What are my chances in booking sports promo? And she was very honest. And she said not so much. And I said why it was interesting because my whole body just slumped and there were people in the room, in the Zoom room, were like Christy, no, don't slump, it's okay. No, no, no. And she said it's not for a lack of women trying to create opportunities for women in these niche spaces. These opportunities that are created by women climb and climb and climb up the ladder of decision making and when it reaches the C-suite to a middle-aged man, they say love the concept, not the voice. We're putting a man on it, sure, and she said I encourage you to make your own noise. And so I got off the workshop and I was like but I am making my own noise, I am doing out-of-the-box marketing, I am creating videos for specific teams, I want to voice for I am working my LinkedIn connection, I'm doing everything I possibly can.  08:36 Went to bed, woke up the next morning called Brandon Miller, who is the VO craftsman, and I just went off. Is the VO craftsman and I just went off. Brandon, can you believe what she said to me? What am I supposed to do? I'm so upset. What am I supposed to do? You mean to tell me that just because I'm a woman, that I'm not getting access to these opportunities on my own? That's nuts. So I went to walk the dog. I came back and I called him and I said here's what we're going to do. We are going to get women, other female voice actors and I'm going to partner with women around the world and we are going to revoice scripts originally voiced by men in male-centric genres like construction, like alcohol, like tech, like sports, like automobiles, and we are going to show through these reels that not only are women good at it, but also brands are not going to miss anything from it.  09:25 You know those C-suite men who are saying, oh no, well, why? Because women statistically have anywhere it depends on the globe or United States but anywhere between 60 and 80 percent of the purchasing power in their homes. They make the decisions about what money is spent and where, whether you get season tickets, whether you get swag when you go to a game. What kind of camps your kids go to, what kind everything right. So women have the purchasing power. Number one. Number two women don't want a wine night with pink logoed hats anymore at games. That's not what they want. Women are sports fans. Women are carpenters.  10:02 Women are tech driven, so why are we using men as the messaging? And the more and more and I dug into this, the more it spurred me to keep going. Because here's why, for example, the voice of Sondi I know Sondi, yeah, yeah, sondi, okay, gorgeous voice. She chose to do a spot for Lowe's. So in researching every spot, every reel, I want to have it based in data. So I was doing research and I stumbled upon a study that Lowe's had conducted because they wanted to differentiate themselves from Home Depot. What they knew was that Home Depot was a spot that contractors went to. Typically, men are the contractors. Home Depot is poorly lit, it's messy, there are limited displays and the aisles are super tight. So because Lowe's recognizes that women have the highest purchasing power, they decided to make their stores well-lit really wide aisles, everything is bright and colorful. And then they have these huge displays that show you how you can use the products and what you can create. Yet they rarely use a woman on their branded campaigns for TV and radio Rarely.  11:15 We're missing something here, right, if you had all that money to do a study and you put all that attention into gearing your stores towards women because you know that they have the highest purchasing power. Why aren't you using more women in front of and behind the camera? Sure?  11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it doesn't make sense, right, comes down to who are those decision makers, right? Who are the decision makers that are selecting the voices, which is, as you mentioned prior, a lot of times and this also happens when we audition, right? I mean, why is it that when we audition, we're told casting specs to be conversational and talking to your best friend and then, ultimately, when it airs, we possibly hear something that sounds like the old announcer-y thing? Well, could be that an older person that was doing the directing or that finally made that choice, made that choice.  12:04 And so I think it really depends on who's making the choice for the voice talent. And I get you in terms of being in male-dominated fields. I've kind of myself have been an engineer back in the late 80s, I worked in technology for about 20 years. I'm a female demo producer, and so I've been treading that line the whole time. So I really feel that a campaign that can bring awareness right, so it's not just maybe the one person making that decision, but they can bring awareness to the world or the companies. I think that that is a really wonderful way to get things going and actually building doors and breaking the glass ceiling for women.  12:47 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, and you know that day after I walked my dog, I was like, well, everyone uses these terms like go kick down the door, go knock on the door, and what I realized is that there's no door for me to knock on. So I have to build it and I'm going to bring a bunch of other women with me. I love it.  13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, let's talk about the Building Doors campaign. When did you start?  13:08 - Christy Harst (Guest) March 1st of 2024. So it's been 10 months.  13:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, and what did you do to start building that? What was required for you to do that? A website, a domain.  13:20 - Christy Harst (Guest) No, no, I didn't even have. I had nothing. It was February 9th or 10th and I was like this is what's going to happen, I'm going to do it. And I remember there was a moment I was sitting on my couch and I said to myself if you're going to do it, you have to do it now, but if you're not going to do it, just don't, because it's going to take a lot of work and you have less than two and a half weeks to launch this on March 1st, for in honor of Women's History Month, and I was like, all right, fine, it's done.  13:44 And I started calling all the women that I knew. Then I started researching women online and on Instagram and at first I just used my social media, so I didn't have time to create a page Like it wouldn't have had the impact right. So I launched it on my Instagram, on YouTube, on Facebook, on LinkedIn and on TikTok and I was literally going to do one post. Then one post turned into a month. All right, fine, I'll do a month. And then something happened. People actually watched it, people actually commented and people actually shared, and they shared it to the point where a woman got a job from it, and I think that that shows the power of community when you all unite under a shared mission.  14:26 So Ashley Tirado is a voice actor who did a spot for Honda Sport. She voiced it and about three or four months later she called me and said she doesn't know who, but somebody forwarded or shared this reel. Someone saw it, forwarded it to an ad agency in Florida. That Florida agency reached out to Ashley and hired her to do a slew of Honda spots. Building doors at that point had created an opportunity that otherwise didn't exist for a woman in voiceover in a male-centric lane, and that was like recreational drugs for me. I was like, yes, I'm hooked.  14:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I'm hooked. I also do automotive, but I'll tell you what it's been a hard climb in automotive as well. I do not get the amount of automotive that I know my male counterparts do, so it's kind of like I feel like when they want a novelty, when they want a novelty, they want something just a little bit different, they're going to hire the woman, but more than not. I'm hearing those campaigns either. The campaign that I had was taken over by a male voice. So, yeah, it is something that I feel like as a female wanting to have the same opportunities. It's hard, it really is, and you do have to build doors. And so now, after I would say 10 months, what happened after that? Because you bought the domain, do you have a website?  15:46 - Christy Harst (Guest) I do, and you know why? Because there was a woman. I have a lot of Zoom calls.  15:50 I spend a lot of my time trying to get to brands, talk to brands, talking to all these different people, and a lot of my time trying to get to brands, talk to brands, talking to all these different people, and a lot of the brands I've talked to I haven't publicly shared because I'm not ready to yet, but there was a woman who was the former head legal for a major, major major sports an American sports company, if you will, or brand and she said listen, I can totally hook you up with the top people because your message deserves to be heard there. However, I can't do it unless you have a website. And I had been dragging my feet and I was like, well, there's an investment there, yeah, so, yeah, I mean I get that.  16:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have multiple websites, so I know, yeah, yeah, and that is probably coming out of your pocket. It did.  16:32 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, it did, and that's when things started to get really serious. Because I invested in the website, I created it on my own in Wix over a weekend. Fronk his last name, I think, is Fronk he helped me yeah, Jim Jim Fronk.  16:44 Yep, he helped me work through some things. He was wonderful, and so now we have a website. And I mentioned, oh my gosh, the Veal Craftsman, Brandon Miller. He does all the videos for free for me, so he volunteered to do all of the reels for me for free, which is amazing, right? That's fabulous. Yeah, and so I've had some really great conversations with brands like Valvoline, the Cleveland Guardians, the Cleveland Cavs, and I will say that I didn't realize and I want to say this to everyone listening, that is, in voice, acting who's putting stuff out on social media. People, see you, they may never like it.  17:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They may never, comment they may  17:20 - Christy Harst (Guest) never, share it, but they see you, they're watching you, because the person from the Cavs reached out to me. A middle-aged white man reached out to me and said I've been watching you, I've been watching the campaign and I want to put you in a room full of decision-makers across four different athletic associations Nice, so who would have ever guessed that? Right yeah?  17:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Who would have ever guessed that Now do you have a separate social media channel for Building Doors?  17:47 - Christy Harst (Guest) We just started it. It is at BuildingDoorsVO, on Instagram and LinkedIn. We are only doing Instagram and LinkedIn because, after a data analysis, I discovered that those are the platforms with the highest engagement and reach. On LinkedIn, our number one post is sitting at 90K impressions Nice and our highest post on Instagram has something crazy like 12 viewing hours and it's a 20-second clip.  18:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, what is it that you are promoting on the social channels? Are you creating videos with females voicing traditionally yeah, male promo roles. What are you presenting as content?  18:24 - Christy Harst (Guest) I'm so excited for 2025 because not only are we going to be featuring women one per month, they're the door builders that are going to be reading scripts previously voiced by men and male-centric genres but we're also going to be doing a lot of other cool stuff.  18:37 Like, we are going to do a LinkedIn Live and an Instagram Live series. I'd like to do one on LinkedIn a month and one on Instagram a month, but we'll see and they are going to imagine this. It's a panel discussion that is all based under the mission of Building Doors, which is equality, equal opportunity, but it'll include people who support the campaign. So, for example, let's say, the panel consists of a copywriter, a voiceover actor, a graphic designer and then maybe a casting director who knows right, and they're all talking about an issue that not only can be of service to the voiceover community they can learn from, but also highlights our supporters and highlights people who have a service that voice actors could potentially hire from. You know, forming community right now in 2025, is essential, I think, especially in our country, so that people know where to go to communicate, to connect and to know where to put their money so they can support like-minded people.  19:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Fabulous, that's fantastic, and so right now you have your socials all set.  19:40 - Christy Harst (Guest) So we've been live on social for about a month or two months, okay, and Instagram is slowly climbing. Our LinkedIn page needs some more followers, right? So at Building Doors VO, I am currently well, it's a holiday so I'm not posting as much but starting in January, yes, there is going to be more women reading reels. Hopefully, those LinkedIn and Instagram lives will be up and running in January. And also, you know, I'm going to be featuring supporters, so people who support us. I feature them in image and help share their story. For example, I have featured an award-winning UK digital marketing agency a.  20:14 Afro-Indigenous puppeteer and comedian, so I'll be featuring those people as well.  20:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm looking at buildingdoorsvo.com right now and you have an amazing roster of ladies there.  20:27 - Christy Harst (Guest) Well, I appreciate you saying that, because how do I get?  20:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) involved. Hey, this is fantastic. You've got quite a few. That's amazing, Like at least 32 that I'm counting right now.  20:38 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yeah, and there'll be 44 at the end of it.  20:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it.  20:40 - Christy Harst (Guest) I would like to point out that we are not a talent agency, we are not a brand manager, we are not a casting site. When I talk to a brand, one of the things I ask them is that would you be willing to the next time you need a female voice actor, would you be willing to consider a door builder? And they usually say yes and then they can go to the website and they go and reach out to that person directly. I'm not in it, right. So then they can take that to their agent and everybody wins, I think.  21:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And then if the door builder gets booked.  21:11 - Christy Harst (Guest) I ask if I can share it as a success story. And for example, natasha. Natasha just got booked from her reel. She did a reel where she was reading something for the Oscars. Someone saw it on LinkedIn, reached out and said hey, will you do my podcast intro and outro? And so she got that job. She did it, and getting work for people who are featured is a great cherry on top, but it's not necessarily what is meant for the campaign, right? Because we're not a casting site, we're not a talent agent right.  21:39 We want to show that women can do this. They should have the access to the opportunities to do it, and if you choose one of these women, great. But if not, at least we've planted the seed that, yeah, a woman can voice a UFC spot. Sure. A woman can do a wealth management spot or a tech spot.  21:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, how are you working on funding? Are you thinking, what are your thoughts about getting additional funding? Because I know, simply because I have multiple domains, this is not something out of your own pocket. Owning the domain, you've got to pay for that. You've got to pay for the website, you've got to pay for the hosting of the website. Ultimately, you've got a domain. Maybe you're going to send email from it, so then you're going to need an email server. I mean, there's just a bunch of stuff Having the social media channels and you're also a working voice actor, so you're donating a lot of your time and I know that you recently have some women that are now on board to help you in the Building Doors campaign. But what are you thinking about in terms of funding?  22:34 - Christy Harst (Guest) I need funding, yeah.  22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you going to create, maybe, a scholarship or become like a nonprofit? What's going to happen so?  22:45 - Christy Harst (Guest) I think and this is probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I think that people or groups that advocate for a mission or a cause, they can earn money too. It's okay. It's okay. And no, we're not going to be a nonprofit. I have no desire to run a nonprofit. I worked for nonprofits for years in my nine to five career and I know what the mentality is. I know the paperwork. It's just not something I desire to. We are a for-profit. We are an LLC under CEH Productions, which is my LLC, and I am so blessed to have the ambassadors. These are women that did pay a certain amount to be in the campaign and they get access to make decisions about the campaign and while that money is great, it's not.  23:32 I'm not earning any money is what I'm saying, Like the funds that I've collected to date help cover the cost of the initial investment that I've made and help cover the cost of the website in the future, but I'm definitely not earning any money. So I've been applying for grants for female small business owners. I am open to other ideas and I'm going to be honest with you, anne, it's something that I'm really struggling with right now and trying to figure out, because if this mission is going to have the impact that I want it to have and if I want to do the ideas that I think are necessary for this brand, I need money, and you know I can't continue at the pace that I am, as just me, right, and I do have some help with some of the ambassadors Amy, selma and Sandi.  24:14 They've been so great to me and the ambassadors in general have been really great about picking up some of the stuff that I can't. But if I had it my way, I'd hire a social media manager today. I'd hire a personal assistant today, I'd hire someone to do the books today. And, for example, I've been fortunate enough. I'm going to be going to the WESPN conference in May in New York.  24:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have been encouraged to go there to make face-to-face connections, Absolutely, I mean, that's a cost as well. I mean well.  24:42 - Christy Harst (Guest) I'd like to say that such a voice is paying for my ticket. Well, okay, they're paying for the ticket for me to go, but I still need to find funding for airfare and ground transportation. So that takes time. Right, finding sponsors to take you somewhere where you know you could make the biggest difference and the biggest impact that takes time.  25:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely Well, you're certainly building doors, and I completely, completely get that. I mean, you're starting from the ground up, and so there's a lot of work involved, there's a lot of questions, there's a lot of navigating, trying things out. Back in the day, I like to say that I pioneered the hybrid workout, which was online and live at the same time. Back in the early days, when there was no streaming live on the internet before Zoom was a thing, I had some technological experience so I started doing that. So there's no clear path, and so to me, that defines a boss, and I love interviewing people who really exemplify and showcase bossness.  25:44 - Christy Harst (Guest) Wow.  25:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, yeah, so I mean really congratulations. What you've done is the start of something truly amazing. And if there's any way that VO Boss can help you out. We're here to help you spread the message far and wide. How can bosses get in touch with you, christy, if they want to know more, if they want to contribute?  26:01 - Christy Harst (Guest) Yes, so definitely follow us at at Building Doors VO on Instagram and LinkedIn. I also want to give a quick plug that I'm doing an impact study and those links are on those channels as well. If you could fill out the impact study, that would be great. And also, you're more than welcome to email me. You're more than welcome to message me on any of the social media platforms. If you are interested in offering services in exchange for something or if you'd like to donate, by all means, yeah, let me know. Christy at christyhearthcom.  26:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and we'll be putting all of your links on our show notes page. Bosses out there, Christy, I want to meet back up with you in six months in a year?  26:38 - Christy Harst (Guest) Oh, that would be amazing.  26:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's talk about how has it progressed, of course. I mean I'm going to be following you from now on and bosses out there, make sure that you follow Christy, and we will be in touch, and I'd like to have a follow-up interview with you for sure.  26:51 - Christy Harst (Guest) Oh, I'd love it.  26:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because I see great things. I see great things happening. I got good vibes, so I always like to say that I'm a little bit intuitive here. So good stuff, christy. I'm so glad that we got the opportunity to talk and that VO Boss can help spread the word about the Building Doors campaign. You're amazing and thank you so much. Thank you.  27:09 - Christy Harst (Guest) Thank you for having me on, I appreciate it.  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Christy and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week. Make sure you go and check out buildingdoorscom and check out Christy and follow her on socials and we will see you next week. Bye.  27:32 - Intro (Ad) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this insightful episode of the Real BOSSES series, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere delve into the unpredictable landscape of social media and its implications for entrepreneurs. As platforms like Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok face increasing political and operational challenges and changes, The BOSSES discuss the importance of adapting business strategies to ensure continued success. They share actionable insights on how to diversify marketing efforts and build resilient communities, emphasizing the significance of maintaining control over one's audience through robust mailing lists and finding alternate platforms. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's create your next demo together. As an award-winning demo producer, I'll work closely with you to craft a demo reel that showcases your unique talents and strengths. My personalized approach is going to ensure that your demo stands out from the crowd and gets you booked. Book a free 20-minute consult today and get started at anneganguzza.com.  00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone.  00:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Welcome to the VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm here with my good friend, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom, how are you?  00:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I am good, how are you?  00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing good, but I'll tell you what. Social media is kind of a mess lately, isn't it?  01:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh my God, yeah it, oh my God, yeah. Oh my God, to say the least, it has been insane the past couple of weeks.  01:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, TikTok shutting down people fleeing off platforms. It's been insane and I think something that, as business owners, we've used for years right to promote our businesses is now somewhat becoming unstable and unpredictable, and I think we should chat about this. What can we do to kind of counteract?  01:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) that that's a great question. Well, I will say that literally this morning on Facebook, I saw two friends of mine who run Facebook voiceover groups who basically posted the same exact post, which was we know a lot of you are leaving Facebook right now. It's gotten very politically charged, it's gotten very toxic. You've all mentioned that how your feeds are changing and it's just getting really, really weird. And they both did the same thing in that they said we will continue to be loving and supporting of all voice actors, regardless of your affiliation, regardless of what's going on in the outside world. And there was a chorus of support and concern at the same time.  02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think the community that we feel that we've established on these platforms is, and now the platforms are unstable or toxic. And so now our community because we work independently and our community has been online for all these years and now, all of a sudden, it's just become a place where maybe not everybody wants to hang out anymore.  02:28 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, there's four platforms which everybody seems to be sharing the most concern about Facebook, instagram, because those are both owned by the same company Meta Twitter, now known as X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now, since it was purchased. As X, which has been a point of concern for a couple of years now since it was purchased, and, like you just said, tiktok, because of the concerns that have been expressed and the affiliation that it has and the fact that it went down for less than 24 hours and then it was rescued.  02:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was like a mass hysteria. Well, you know what else? It wasn't just TikTok, it was anything owned by TikTok, which I was aware, but I kind of forgot. I use CapCut, which is the video editing program, and I spent a considerable amount of time like learning it and all of a sudden my CapCut was gone and I'm like, oh no, I guess I need a new video app.  03:15 It was kind of good in a way, so that we all could step back and say, all right, let's not put the proverbial all our eggs in one basket, like we've always been saying about pay-to-plays. Right, you don't want to put all of your eggs in one basket with pay-to-plays. That can't be your only way to make income, and social media may not be the only way that we can have community. So let's talk, tom, about how we might be able to incorporate community and also incorporate. Let's say how are we going to market to our potential clients? What can we do to create a sense of community? And I mean my first idea that comes to mind is let's go back to old school, right? Let's create a mailing list, right? That's something that we own. We're not dependent upon a social media platform that we don't own. We own our own lists.  03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, when it comes to that, both social media and curating lists of potential, current and past clients both fall in the bucket of self-marketing. Having a social media presence, creating a sense of community, trying to interact with clients potentially that's a form of indirect or passive marketing. And then curating lists of clients cold calls, cold emails, newsletters those are all forms of direct or active marketing strategies. So both of them have their merits. But to your point, if the four, at least the four social media platforms that we just talked about, are unstable on both a cultural view, political, socioeconomic, logistical and technological view, because one of them was taken down and then went back up and goodness knows how many millions of dollars was potentially lost by the TikTok users who monetize? Yeah, absolutely.  04:54 So, this is creating uncertainty in the market, so looking for more stable practices is a very good idea. So, if you have been able to cultivate any relationships with any potential or current or past clients through social media platforms and I'm not just talking about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and TikTok, which are the four that seem to be the most worrisome or in flux right now- Well, they're the largest.  05:18 They are also, interestingly enough, the largest, and Facebook's been around since what? 2004? Tiktok's pretty new and Twitter's been around since around 2008,. 9, 10. And Instagram is a few years after that, so some of these have been around for quite some time.  05:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, let's not forget about our old friend YouTube, which right now doesn't appear to be affected so much.  05:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) YouTube seems to be relatively stable and actually YouTube has been growing quite steadily.  05:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Youtube is the number one streaming platform. I think that that can be an option for people who are looking for community or trying to establish a community. I mean, really, what do you need to establish a community? There's community number one, just community for ourselves, right, because I need my colleagues. I need to be able to communicate with my colleagues and just kind of like just say hey, how's it going, or what are you doing, or just that kind of like at the water cooler sort of thing. And then we also need the community of where can we put ourselves out there, where can we promote and market our materials, if the online community is now threatened?  06:17 I think, I mean, I know, for many years, you know, social media has always been quote unquote, free, right, always been free, and the Internet's been free. And now, all of a sudden, there's a potential to maybe it not being there or free, or we don't know really what's going to happen. So we need to come up with our plan B. I think it's always important that, as business owners, we have a plan B or we have an alternate plan, so that we're not throwing all our eggs in one basket, right? What can that be, tom?  06:45 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, so I have many answers.  06:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have many answers and ideas.  06:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Me too. Okay. So because there's a difference between fostering or being part of a community of fellow voice actors on a social media platform and looking to network with potential clients. Yes, despite all the weird that's been going on, linkedin is still the number one social media platform to be connecting with and developing relationships with clients.  07:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except it's got spammy lately.  07:12 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's gotten very spammy and I've seen a lot more politics on my LinkedIn feed.  07:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, but still it's better.  07:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's better. It may be a short-term consequence, it may re-stabilize I'm not sure, but LinkedIn is the number one source for that Twitter was a pretty good source for that too.  07:29 Yes, because also everybody knows that LinkedIn is the professional social media platform, whereas Facebook is the social. It's literally called the social network. It's a social platform. You can be social on a professional platform and you can be professional on a social platform. But all of these different social media platforms were designed with a specific intent in mind. Instagram was all about photos, and now it turned into video as well to compete with everybody else, and then YouTube made shorts to compete with Instagram reels and they're all watered down and they can all do all of those things, but what the thrust of it is?  08:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before I forget, I do want to like throw in another social media platform that can generate community on a more professional level and that would be Substack.  08:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's definitely one.  08:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's kind of like here. If you want to sign up and subscribe to my newsletter on a professional basis, there is Substack and I think that might be gaining popularity as well.  08:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Slack is another one that is gaining popularity. I have not ventured into Substack or Slack, but the one that I have been exploring lately when it comes to community is Discord.  08:29 Yep, absolutely what's interesting about Discord is what separates it from all of the other social media platforms is it doesn't have a feed. It doesn't have this torrential river of content that you can doom scroll through. For those of you who aren't familiar with Discord, discord has what are called servers. Think of them as like Facebook groups, except that they are generally invite only, though many of them have a public invite where they publicly promote a link or a QR code where you can scan and then you can potentially get admitted into that Discord server. There's usually a number of questions that you need to answer and a code of conduct that you need to adhere to before you'll be admitted into that individual server, and there are a ton of voiceover-related Discord servers. Many of the voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover groups that you find on Facebook and all of the organizations that you're familiar with in voiceover circles, have a Discord server, and within those servers are little threads or sub-servers.  09:33 Sub-threads yeah, Sub-threads where you can talk about whatever subject matter.  09:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then it becomes like the old school Usenet. Oh my God, I'm showing my age. Do you know what I mean? Because people post about topics. It's like a forum yeah it becomes like a forum which Usenet? Do you know Usenet?  09:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Or am I even showing my age with you? Yeah, that was way back when I am showing my age with you.  09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's Usenet back in the day, oh my goodness, yeah. Topic-based.  09:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Discord definitely has a. It's also got a bunch of emojis and badges and avatars and all these things that you can do with it.  10:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I would say for communities. If you're looking for a community, feel that the Facebook groups if you don't want to be on Facebook anymore at all or you're disliking things about Facebook, in particular, discord for community, I think is a really good way to go. And I think people are just kind of waiting it out a little bit at this moment in time, because Facebook really was for many, many, many years. It was a great community gatherer, and so I think that people are just kind of sitting back, waiting and seeing, or they're fleeing. Some people are going over to Blue Sky, but then again people will say that that is also politically motivated, and so really it just becomes like where are you going to go and where are you going to find the groups? And I think it's one of these things, tom, that we have to just kind of wait and see a little bit. But I would say, professionally, if you want to create that community, start gathering your own mailing list of your current clients and get something going on your website that invites people to subscribe to your email list, and that way you will always have a way to professionally market to that list or communicate with that list. And then, when it comes to community, like colleague and that type of group, I have a wait and see.  11:12 I've kind of have my accounts on all different platforms and I'm just going to join them all and see where I feel that people are kind of migrating to. I know that for me, I've done a lot of work creating groups. I have a VOPs group that has thousands of members. I have business pages on Facebook that have thousands of members and followers. In reality, I have to look at that and say, well, it's possible that my groups have been disbanded and in a way, this is a time where I feel like I can kind of clean up in a way and so things that have grown, maybe possibly stagnant over time, where maybe people are members but maybe they're not engaged members. You know, maybe it's time to really just sit back, take a look, see where things go and really try to engage a quality community right, not necessarily a quantity, remember before it was all like, oh my God, well, I have 90,000 people on my Facebook group, but are they all engaged?  12:03 - Intro (Announcement) Yeah.  12:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think now's the time to really start building that community that know, like and trust you, and I feel like that's not just for sales, that's also for people that you interact with on a day-to-day basis. Like Tom, you and I like you're my know, like and trust and I would be like Tom, I want to be where you are so that we can continue our relationship right. So I feel like that's an important criteria for any group that I migrate to or that I create, and then it becomes a build process again.  12:30 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I agree. So, bosses, if you've been listening to what Anne's been saying, she's making two extremely important points. One is do not be dependent on any one social media platform for community or for establishing and maintaining relationships with clients. Those are two different things that you can do on all of these social media platforms and the advice of going through all of your social media platforms and keeping track of where all your potential, current and past clients are on all these social media platforms. Make sure that you have all their contact information and get them into your CRM, which is a VO boss conversation that we had very, very recently.  13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That was the acronym. Party the acronym party. So check out that episode.  13:19 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Absolutely Use that CRM, because it's also a way to cultivate relationships with all of your clients. It's also a way to cultivate relationships with your fellow voice actors. There's nothing stopping you from sending out a newsletter to fellow voice actors, not to tell them about whatever voiceover you've done recently, which they may or may not be interested in, but just talk about concerns or topics of interest to you that may be of interest to them as well. You could also do that through blogging, because your blog posts can have different audiences. You can have blog posts where the audience is your voice seekers and you can have one where your audience is voice actors. To find another way to create a non-social media dependent community and culture.  14:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think the vlog might be making a comeback. I mean, I think it was always a thing right. But I think a blog I mean I do a Teachable Moment every week and I do shorts every week those are videos that I put out to the community and that can also be part of my blog. There's a lot of those that are part of my blog as well, so people can subscribe to that blog and you can talk about whatever topic floats your boat, floats your passion, and I think that more of the social communities like TikTok and again, you know TikTok is up for now, but again, if you're using it to monetize or using it to try to really sell, just be careful that you're not putting all the eggs in one basket. And so I just say, if you've got good video content right, you can now maybe put that on multiple platforms, right, or the platforms that you feel are right to gain the audience that you want. So just know that your video it turns out to be stuff that you own.  14:51 Stuff that you create is stuff that you own. So if you create videos, put them in a place where you have control over them. Put them on your website, put them in a blog, put them on YouTube if you have a YouTube channel. But if YouTube were to blow up tomorrow, you've got your own server, you've got your own web server that you can put your videos on, and so creating that content that is distinctly something that is owned by you gives you more semblance of control in regards to promoting your services, promoting your voice, promoting your product out there and also fostering a sense of community, even though it may not be engaging, but you can have people like subscribe to your blog, create comments, have engaging comments back and forth.  15:29 And again, there's lots of different places. There's Zoom workspace, there's Slack. There's lots of places where you can have video meetups and create that community there as well, and that's something to think about is to have a Q&A or have a water cooler, like, basically, there's that Zoom water cooler, that's out there, and so how are you going to promote that community water cooler? Well, that can be through a list, a mailing list that you own, or you can continue to put posts out on social media, and again, it just don't depend on that social media to be your one and only way to communicate with your potential clients or your colleagues.  16:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There's also, if you remember, clubhouse and how popular that was during COVID, that became a real great place where a great sense of community that may come back.  16:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is exactly why.  16:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm bringing it up, anne is that Clubhouse may be a place to go back to, because there's no social media feed. There's really not much of a space for flaming trolling spamming.  16:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Interesting thought there, because I've done a Thursday VIP room Voices in Podcasting room and we actually were thinking about going away from it, doing Zoom live streaming, zoom on Facebook, which is just another way of doing it. But you're right, clubhouse could be making a comeback.  16:42 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, video, and I'm sure the reason was you know as well as I do is that video has more of a potential for engagement on a human level and on an algorithmic level than pure audio or just photos or just text.  16:55 So yeah, it makes a lot of sense to be on Zoom, but, like for voice actors, sure On Clubhouse. That seems like a really natural fit. There's one other social media platform that I wanted to mention, and that's Reddit. I've had a Reddit account for a few years now, but I just recently decided to start getting in there and seeing what's going on, and it has its level of weirdness, like any other.  17:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again like a Usenet. Sorry, I'm showing my age again. It's like it's a forum.  17:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's got a forum Usenet kind of feel to it but like any subject matter, personal or professional, that you can think of is there and there's a group of dedicated and a lot of them very social and often supportive people that are talking about any given subject.  17:42 So I've been spending a lot of time on there and, just as a quick side note, just a couple of interesting things that have happened on. There is one there was a high school student who was required to interview a voice actor for a paper that they had to write. So I volunteered and they sent me the questions, answered the questions and they got an A.  18:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you helped someone get an A Tom.  18:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That's great, yeah Now is that going to help my voiceover career? No, no, but that's a good thing, but it's being a part of the community. The other quick example is and I can't say much is that a journalist went on a subreddit who needed to interview certain kind of people to write an article about a particular subject, and I was right for it. So I messaged them and, as a result and DA much.  18:23 And as a result, we had it was a Zoom or a Google Meet meeting for about a half hour, asked me a bunch of questions and in the past week or so they followed up with a bunch of follow-up questions. They wanted to flesh out parts of the conversation and confirm some details and stuff like that, and I think the article comes out next week, so I'll be happy to talk about it then and promote it, because it's a very very, let's just say.  18:50 it's a topic that's extremely relevant to the voiceover community and has been for a couple of years and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. But I wouldn't have gotten that without being on a social media platform and availing myself to what could just come my way, and it's going to turn into a nationally published article from a reputable news organization.  19:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Excellent. Now the other thing is yes, we're talking about the social media chaos and what we can do about it. Now the other thing, too, is, if you're finding that social media has become to the point where, if you're doom scrolling and it is doom scrolling and it is becoming mentally difficult right to read things on it, then I would say, for your own mental health, step back, take a break. It's not a critical part of you know. You have your circle of friends. I have, like Tom, I can get in touch with you in lots of other ways other than social media if I have to. So, really, guys, when it comes to your health and the health of your business, if you need to step back absolutely. It's not the be all end all.  19:49 Social media is not the be all end all to your business. It is a method that we have used for many years to promote ourselves. And I remember gosh, back in the day when social media was just becoming popular and there was Instagram and Facebook, and then it was like, oh my God, we can actually like, advertise our businesses on here. And that wasn't so long ago, or maybe it just seems like time has flown by, but I remember back in 2004 or five or six, and doing like a class on, like social media and how to advertise your business. And so 20 years has gone by, it's evolved, it's turned into a very different animal, and so I think, think again, very similar to how technologies evolve and things happen. We need to evolve with the time. So if you need to step back, absolutely for your health, absolutely step back.  20:38 I honestly don't think that it's going to be the destruction of your business unless you have monetized on a platform that is closing down or is one of those platforms that is now you, you know, in chaos, and so really try to diversify.  20:50 Think about how you can keep in contact with your current clients, how you can reach out to other clients, and again, I'm going to just say the good old school, like create a list for yourself. There's not one website software out there that doesn't have a way where you can invite people to become part of your list and you just have a checkbox that says I agree to allow you to send emails and people give you permission, and that becomes, I think, one of the best tools that you have, right for, let's say, maybe a professional way of marketing yourself and also a way of becoming closer to your community of professionals so that your business can stay afloat and with colleagues right. Gather those colleagues close to you. Already now there's multiple. I mean, we all do have phones, we all do have homes, we might live near each other, we all have ways to text and stay in communities together and, I think, don't rely on anyone. Get yourself prepared to not depend on any one method of acquiring clients or communicating with your colleagues at large.  21:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That makes so much sense. I'll leave everybody with one thing Think about why you're on social media. Because it just kind of showed up and everybody just started using it. And nobody took a class or read a manual, they just started messing around on there. So if you're on social media for community and the communities are failing you in one social media platform, go to a different one. If you're going there to look for clients and develop relationships with them, if the social media platforms that you've been on aren't conducive for that they never were or they aren't anymore go to a different social media platform. If you are on social media for purely non-voiceover reasons you're just there to be entertained, amused or inspired or educated, and those aren't working anymore go to different ones. If you're doing it, you just find yourself going like this on your phone and none of those motivations are there. That means the really awful psychology, algorithmic things have got their clutches in you. Yeah, get off. Read a book, take a walk, go have coffee with a friend.  22:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. That's a great way to end that, tom. Thank you so much. Yeah, bosses, be safe and be healthy with social media. All right, great conversation, tom. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have a great week and connect up with us in multiple ways. Tom and I are available and we have email addresses. You can even email us and you can, for sure, just keep listening to our podcast. So you guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  23:31 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at voboss.com and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. 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Anne Ganguzza welcomes live-action Dubbing Casting Director Jessica Blue this week! Jessica Blue shares her captivating journey from a cartoon-loving kid in the San Francisco Bay Area to becoming a sought-after talent and director in Los Angeles. The BOSSES take you behind the scenes of voice dubbing, where Jessica reveals the art of directing and casting for this unique form of acting. She explains how directors play a crucial role in ensuring performances are authentic and compelling. The conversation touches on the challenges of adapting scripts for different languages, the essential role of adapters, and the dynamic, fast-paced nature of dubbing. The BOSSES expertise and experiences provide a valuable roadmap for aspiring voice actors navigating this exciting field. Anne and Jessica also preview the upcoming VO Peeps class where participants can experience a live-action dubbing session. 00:01 - Joe (Ad) Hi, this is Joe and I just wanted to say that, in addition to being a marketing guru in her own right, Anne Ganguzza goes deep and she has a vast knowledge and a huge breadth of experience in all and everything VO voice, acting, online communication and she offers a plethora of valuable information and golden nuggets, a fountain of first-hand knowledge, which is VOBoss. I myself had the privilege of participating in a super fun bilingual contest and one of the treats I won, alongside my colleagues, was to be interviewed by Anne and Pilar Uribe A chance to share, learn and get inspired on so many different fronts. I promise you Y, si quieres, te lo cuento en español, pero mientras tanto, búscate un episodio en VO Boss. You might easily find an amazing podcast to get instantly inspired in your work. Whatever that is.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, what's up bosses? Join our VIPs today and gain access to over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops designed to enhance your voiceover skills. From industry insights to practical techniques, our workshops cover a wide range of topics. As a VIPs member, you'll also receive a 15% discount on current workshops and free monthly workshops to keep your skills sharp. Don't miss out on this opportunity. Sign up for VIP's membership now at vopeepscom.  01:36 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so very excited to have special guest Jessica Blue with us this morning. Yay, hello.  02:06 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Thank you for having me.  02:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi, jessica, hi For those bosses who don't know Jessica. Jessica has been a voice actress for 20 years and is an English dubbing voice and casting director on oh, some small projects like Netflix, disney+, hbo, hulu, amazon and more and of course, that was sarcastic. I want you to be able to read that acting Jessica. You can give me some tips if I have to dub over it. Okay, but as a VO talent, some of her clients include small names like Google, microsoft, macy's, wells Fargo, and the list goes on and on and on. She's also provided voices for several dubbed films and series, and some of her dubbing projects that she's directed include no Gain, no Love on Amazon, crooks from Netflix, moving, hulu and Burning Betrayal Netflix. Jessica, it is a pleasure to have you here this morning. Thanks for having me.  02:58 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I'm super excited to talk with you.  03:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, yeah. So I want to say it's just been so wonderful like knowing you for the past few years and I wish I had known you like 10, 20 years ago. Same yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've had you as a guest director for our VO Peeps a couple of times and I'm going to have you coming up this year as well for dubbing. And I guess I want to start with the bosses that are not necessarily familiar with who you are. Let's talk about your voice acting career first and how it all got started. Cool.  03:28 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Well, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay Area and I grew up watching cartoons like a lot of kids. Bugs Bunny was my favorite and I just loved being in that world of imagination and where anything could happen. And I thought wouldn't it be cool to be a cartoon someday, Not knowing that that was voiceover. And it wasn't until many, many years later. When my ex-husband, of all things, heard this woman talking on the radio about voiceover, I'm like what is that? And he thought I would like that.  03:56 And so I went, took a intro class and I completely fell in love, dove headfirst and took all the classes, learned as much as I could and then eventually got an agent up there and started working in video games and commercials a little bit of animation for games and stuff, a lot of narration as well and then slowly migrated down to LA, because there was a collective of us in that group that really wanted to do animation and so we created our own show and pitched it around and down here in LA and I'd come back and everybody had kind of already migrated and moved down here, and I was the last one because I still had a whole life up there. I had a full time job. Up there I was taking care of my parents and one day my dad just said sounds like you need to be down there. Why don't you just go? I'm like I have to take care of you. I have to do all this stuff.  04:43 There's no way Best day of my life because he basically gave me the permission. It's like you need to live your life. Stop doing this for us. Do what you need to do, follow your passion. I'm like I love you, dad. So it took me a couple more years to get my ducks in a row and finally leave the corporate life which was the best decision of my life ever and made the move down to Los Angeles in 2013 and didn't have a plan B, didn't have a job, didn't have an agent down here, nothing, but I was all focused on voiceover and I had already come down here, like the year prior, to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of get the lay of the land network, take classes with directors here, just to sort of immerse myself in the LA culture, in the LA VO community.  05:30 And then it just kind of took off and got an agent, started working, getting more jobs and met awesome people like you and Jeff Howell and all these other amazing folks, and just been doing it ever since. And then Jeff Howell is actually the one who got me into dubbing because he had a project come up and he says I need your help, I need you to help me organize all this stuff.  05:50 I'm like, okay, and we kind of started doing dubbing together and did about six movies together. I want to say and he says, okay, you should be directing, you need to be directing. And I had expressed an interest in directing and so it just kind of shifted into I was still doing acting. I love that, but I love directing so much and it was so great. And so.  06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've sort of shifted.  06:15 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Now I still do a little bit of acting here and there, Super picky and choosy about what auditions I do, who I read for all that good stuff, because I really have a focus more on directing and stuff. So that's where my passion now lies and that's kind of it.  06:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that because you kind of follow your passion and it all just followed you Do, you know what. I mean, you've manifested it for yourself, which is something that I absolutely love, and I love directing myself, but not necessarily dubbing, but in terms of demos and that whole creative process of being able to take it from the ground up to something beautiful. And so let me ask you. So 20 years has passed or so, and so how has the industry evolved and changed since you first?  07:02 - Jessica Blue (Guest) were in it. Oh my God, night and day Back in the day when I was first started and first of all, I felt like I was coming into this super late because I was already in my 30s, I want to say when I started getting into this. And most people you know get in their 20s. They're doing this or even earlier, so I felt like a super late bird, but that's been the story of my life. I'm a late bloomer and everything.  07:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's funny. I was actually in my thirties too. Well, I was in corporate. I was actually in education. I came from corporate to education and before you go on, I did want to say what did you do in corporate, Because that's always interesting to me You're going to laugh.  07:37 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I was a paralegal manager for the electric company in their law department.  07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, my gosh Okay.  07:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah.  07:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, no, nothing surprises me actually.  07:46 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, like legal jargon, medical jargon, I've got that locked, unlocked yeah.  07:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's crazy.  07:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) It's always interesting to find out what corporate places people come from you know it's such a different world, but it's definitely helped my business as far as you know. Knowing how to communicate, being responsive and just general email etiquette, that kind of thing. It goes a long way. But back when I first started you needed to be where your agent was. You had to go in person to audition and it started to slowly switch to where you could record at home and then send it in an MP3.  08:26 But for the most part, like it was super hard to get an LA agent if you were not in LA or even in New York or wherever you had to be there, locally, physically, because they had so many other talent that was right there, hop, skip and a jump that they could grab. So that has completely changed, especially since COVID, because now everything's remote or phoned in or whatever. That's probably the biggest thing. Also, because of that, it's exploded the amount of voiceovers, because there's been such a spotlight on it, especially with all the new animated movies. I mean, back in the day, you know, I had Cinderella and Bambi, you know those movies which were classics, snow White. But now we have a new one coming out, several coming out every year, and they've got these celebrities attached to it.  09:13 So people, the general audience, are seeing these celebs do these voices and they're like, oh, I want to do that voice or I could do that voice, and they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun.  09:22 And they think it's like, oh, it's super easy, that'd be fun, let me go do some voiceover, not realizing it's a process you have to learn, you have to know how to act first of all. It's not just about your voice and take the training, learn the craft. So I think that has sort of opened the door for way more people. So it's super competitive now, and you're not just competing with people in your local area or in your state or now even in your country, right In other countries now, because everybody can now just kind of send stuff in electronically. So technology has definitely improved, as well as having a booth Again, it used to be like I just have a crappy little setup in my closet and now people have these amazing beautiful booths with lighting and all this stuff, and I mean, technology has come so far, so that's a whole nother thing too. So a lot has changed.  10:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A lot has changed, but you have evolved along with that. And now you mentioned something about acting.  10:17 I always like to talk about acting, when you kind of made the shift, kind of also in parallel working with dubbing. You're talking about acting on the fly, I mean. I think that that becomes like front and center in terms of what are the qualifications that you need as an actor or as a voice actor to really get into this industry. And maybe I can just have you explain dubbing kind of from the beginning for the bosses who are not necessarily as familiar with the dubbing industry.  10:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So basically for if you don't know what dubbing is, it's essentially taking a movie or a TV show from another language and putting it into English so you don't have to watch with subtitles. You can actually hear the English spoken while you're watching the video, and our goal is to make sure that the lip flaps match as close as possible so that it doesn't take you out of that and you forget that you're watching a dub. It's a long process, a lot goes into it, it's very detailed, which I'm not going to go into all the gory details of it. But the main thing that I'm looking for when I'm hiring and casting someone to do a dub is that they can act, that I believe that their voice is coming out of the face that I'm seeing on screen and that they're able to give all the nuances of that performance. And it's actually really cool, in my opinion, because it's so much closer to being on stage or being on set and diving into a character and get all that juicy goodness, versus reading a three second tag or a 30 second copy for medical whatever. So there's a lot more that goes into it and it's definitely a skill that has to be learned by doing it.  11:54 It rinse and repeat kind of thing. It does take practice because it can be very challenging and overwhelming at first because there's a lot going on. Because not only are you walking in blind, you have no idea when are you walking in blind, you have no idea when you book a job. You have no idea if you're the lead, if you're an incidental, how many characters you're doing, what the show's about, how long you know all this stuff. You have no clue. So it's the director's job to fill that in for you explain the show who your character is, what they're about, what's going on in the scene, and then you watch the scene and you're seeing this rhythm of band go by with the dialogues screaming by like karaoke and you're trying to read, you're trying to watch the video, you're kind of your eyes are sort of doing this back and forth to try and understand everything and you're seeing it for the first time.  12:38 I've seen it maybe two or three times at this point, right but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of but you're seeing it for the first time, so I'll give you a freebie of like you're watching it for the first time just to know what the heck is going on and who are these people and what's happening. And then we'll watch it a second time. So now you understand the scene, you understand what's going on, and now you can start maybe looking closer at the faces on screen and see what their reaction is, the projection of how loud they are soft and then we'll do a take, and then we'll do another take and put it all together and review it. And I'm looking at the dialogue to make sure that you're saying all the right words and you're not mispronouncing anything.  13:15 And all of that good stuff and it's a lot and it takes about, I'd say, for a newbie about 15 to 20 minutes to get into the groove of it, if it's like their first time. But even experienced debbers you know they'll come in and they'll watch it and takes them a little bit of time to get warmed up too, and that's just the nature of it. But it's like everything's firing all at once. It can be very overwhelming, but it's so much fun once you get the hang of it and you get in the groove and you're just. Then you're just like, oh, all right, we're going, and it's so much fun.  13:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, in terms of directing, let's say, if you were directing just a script that was not on the screen and you're just directing a commercial for someone, versus directing a dub scene, it seems like you have to know, I don't know, the directing is different. I mean, I feel like you have to know so much more quicker when you're doing the dubbing, because, because you have to also impart, like the actual scene, what's happening to the actor, and if the actor's not getting it or just not embodying the character in the right way, then you've got to figure out, well, how am I going to get them so that it makes a believable scene? And then, if not, what do you do? I mean, have you had actors that just didn't work out and then you had to essentially say I'm sorry and then recast I can't imagine so explain some of the differences because, like my, directing for a demo is completely different, because we're taking the words and we're creating the scene.  14:34 We're making it up, this. You have the scene already and you've got to try to communicate that to the actor.  14:39 - Jessica Blue (Guest) More, I would imagine yeah, I mean, on the one side it's kind of nice because you already have this template of what you need to do. You basically have to try to match that, match their energy, match their tone, match it. So it looks like what you're doing out of here is coming out of what you see. So in that sense it's a little bit simpler, because you can see what's happening with a commercial or even when you're auditioning for a dub.  15:07 You don't have the luxury of the video to see what's going on or see what's happening in the scene. So you have to make that up in your mind and you have to find those nuggets in the script, in the dialogue, that might clue you into where are they, what's happening, why did they say this line? What does that mean? What is the intention behind that, what might be happening? And you have to somehow create that in your head, make a choice and go with it. Very much like when you're doing a commercial script. It's a lot of script analysis when you're looking at that stuff and so it's kind of cool.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Actually, you don't ever get the scene, you don't ever get the video, do you Very, very rarely?  15:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) You might if we are doing in-person auditions, do you when you're auditioning? Very, very rarely you might. If we are doing in-person auditions, we do VTKs, which is a video test kit and that will have the actor come in. They'll do an audition in person, to the video, to the scene, so they'll see what's happening, they'll see the actors and everything and they'll get directed. So it's a directed audition. That's about the only time Very rarely will we send out a clip.  16:06 It'll just be the sides and they'll just have that to go on and wing it a prayer and figure it out and make a strong choice. Read through that analysis, look through everything, pick out whatever you can. Make a strong choice, go with it, because again, I'm listening for your acting chops as well as, if I believe, the voice coming out of the face. But even if I'm hearing someone do a commercial, I'm still in that visual sense of who are you talking to? Are you connected? Are you just phoning this in? Are you just reading this? It's very similar because there's a lot of times, too, where I'll have clients like they sound like they're reading. It's like, well, they kind of are because they're reading this girl going by, but you have to make it sound like you're not reading, just like you would a commercial or a video game or anything. You have to make it conversational. That's the name of the game in dubbing is conversational. We want real, grounded, authentic voices, authentic acting. Not, hi, how are you? I am Jessica Mm-hmm.  17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  17:05 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yeah absolutely.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what tips would you say then? Could you give a voice actor that wants to get into dubbing, like, what can they do to prepare themselves? Maybe, and maybe practice or coach with you? Yeah, absolutely, I do do coaching, yeah, besides coaching with you, but I'm just so, yeah, what can they do if they're interested in dubbing? What's your best tips? Watch some dubs.  17:27 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Go on Netflix, go on Hulu, Disney, Amazon, whatever. Watch some dubs that are good and watch how their acting is, or listen to how their acting is in relation to what's happening in the scene. A way to practice is kind of cool, Not exact, but it will help you with that sight reading of looking up to the video and looking down to the dialogue is put on subtitles. Grab your favorite show or movie, put on the subtitles, watch it with the sound on with the subtitles.  17:57 read the subtitles and get used to switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles, switching back your eyesight from the video to the subtitles and then rewind it, mute it and then say it with the subtitles and see how close you can match to their mouths, or whatever. I mean. It's not going to be exact, but that will help you with that skill of sight reading, of going back and forth from the video to the dialogue.  18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I should be amazing Jessica, because I'm old and I have the subtitles on all the time because I can't hear, so I've got the eyesight going and I don't necessarily practice along with that. But yeah, no, that's a great tip. And to actually watch dubs, I think is great, and I myself have watched dubs and I've watched people do it because I've watched you direct people. Do you think it's something that all voice actors would love to do? Or do you feel like it's a niche where I feel, like people that do audiobooks, they love their audiobooks, people that dub love dubbing, like? Or do you think it's just something like oh, it's another genre, it's just oh, I can. What's your experience with talent? I think it's a little of both.  18:57 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think it is sort of a niche. I have my core group of actors that you know. It's like the standard dubbers or whatever, but I'm always finding new talent, always bringing new people into the fold. And so and I've never really had someone go, oh, I don't like this or this isn't for me Maybe they did and I didn't know about it.  19:18 But usually, even though they might be scared and nervous getting into it because they're not sure about anything new, any change, once they do it they're like oh my God, this is kind of fun, I really like this. So then they like tell me more, how do I get into it? How do I do what? How do I need to get more of this type of work? And so it kind of fuels their fire to do it or be more interested in it. So I think it's definitely grown a lot in the last couple of years, for sure, and I don't think it's going away anytime soon because there's so much content. There's so much content out there from other countries that are being brought into the United States and getting dubbed into English. So I don't think the work is going anywhere anytime soon. So I think we're okay.  19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So here's the elephant in the room right Synthetic voices AI. How does that work into dubbing, or does it not? Or what are your thoughts? Is it a threat?  20:07 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I don't think it's a threat now, and if it is, it's going to be minor. I don't think it's going to take over lead voices because, it cannot reproduce these performances, the nuances that humans can, and I think we've got that covered and okay. And also I've heard stories about companies trying to use AI to dub a lead character and the audience isn't buying it.  20:31 They're like that looks weird, that sounds weird, it doesn't match or whatever, and so I think for the main characters, lead characters and everything, we're good, we're okay. It's not going to go the AI route. It might change to where they might end up using some type of AI situation that is ethically sourced. Ai.  20:50 voices for Walla for the background noise, like you know, in airports and restaurants and things like that, because that's just this murmur, this hum bed of voices that you hear in the background, and not necessarily actual dialogue that you can make out and hear what they're saying, but they already have a lot of those like sound beds. You know that we've recorded over many years and they can just plop that in. So it's kind of already done, so I don't know why they would actually need an AI for that.  21:16 So I don't necessarily see I mean, if anything, I think AI might come in on more of the production side, the backside of it, not the performance side, you know, more of the organization of files and management and things like that, or QCing stuff like that I don't know that it's going to really impact the performance side of things for dubbing yet, and I mean who knows Anything's possible but also to get all of these companies on the same page. You know, if somehow this fantastic software came out that you know is able to match the voice to the original actor or change whatever to get everybody on board with that, I mean that's a huge feat in and of itself and I don't see that happening anytime soon. So I think we're okay.  21:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you talk about when we dub, we're dubbing from one language to another. Typically for us we would be the English, and so how much of a disconnect is there because of the language differences, you know, in terms of like lip flap and believability is there from certain languages, and are some languages easier to dub than others? Oh yeah, two things.  22:17 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Some languages their lips barely move, so they're talking like this and it's like what do you say? There's no labial movements, oh my God. And then there's some like Spanish and French, where they are motor mouths and they're like and what takes in Spanish? It takes them 10 words to say what we can say in five in English. But there's like all these, like you know, like happy birthday hon. You know, it's like so different, but yet we would then have to add on extra words stretch it out, add on words, because there's still all that mouth flap that we have to cover, so we would have to add on words.  22:57 Or, in the opposite of French, they can say something very short, like two words, and it takes us seven words to say. So how do we? Ah, like they say nothing?  23:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So who does that editing? That's interesting. Who does that editing? Is that you, or it sometimes is me. It's the adapter.  23:13 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So, which I also do Adaptation is probably the most important and critical step in the whole dubbing process. That's basically where the studio will send it to a translator. They'll translate the Spanish into English. Then that goes to the adapter. The adapter then takes that English translation, rewrites it to make it sound conversational, make it match the lip flaps, adding words, subtracting words, making jokes work that might not make sense to us it does in their language but it doesn't jive with us and then also syncing it all up.  23:46 So the lines are matched up to start, of the mouth opening to the mouth closing, as well as adding in all of the vocal efforts. So laughs, sneezes, coughing, crying, breathing, fight scenes, getting punched, coughing, throat clearing, anything like that is always going to be in brackets so that we have those vocal efforts, because it's going to look funny if you're just talking and all of a sudden you do this and like you don't hear anything. Yeah, yeah, what was that? Right, right, it was a sigh. Ok, got it. So we had to put sighs in brackets so that the actor knows that they have to sigh when they see that chest movement.  24:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a lot OK. So business wise it seems like a lot of work right. So I have a film right. And where does the money come from? The distribution, the licensing of the film in different languages?  24:33 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I think so, yeah, because it'll be like a Netflix will go out and they'll buy the property, the distribution rights for a show from the original person, which is probably yeah, where the money comes from and then that pays for it, because it seems like an awful lot of work, sometimes right, it is a huge  24:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) amount of work If you want a huge amount of work to get to a product that you don't know if it's going to. I mean it's like any movie that comes out right. I mean you put a lot of investment into it, so I imagine that, yeah, it's just got to be the purchase of the rights to the movie. That is where the money is, because is is because is the money. Does the voice actor get money? I mean, I'm sure they get paid. Do you know what I mean? But I mean, let's talk about how well does the voice actor get paid or the dubber get paid for this. Is this an industry that is lucrative? It can be.  25:19 - Jessica Blue (Guest) If you book a lead role, it can be very lucrative because that means multiple sessions, especially if it's a TV show, because that's multiple episodes. So you could be a six episode show, a 12 episode show, a 20 episode show. So if you're a lead character, you're in all those episodes. You're getting paid for every single time. You go into the booth for a session and we cover as much as we possibly can in a session until we exhaust all of the lines for that character.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you get paid per session right.  25:48 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Per session.  25:48 - Intro (Announcement) You don't get paid per airing of you know like a nice national commercial.  25:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's no royalties, there's no kickbacks.  25:55 - Jessica Blue (Guest) There's no nothing it would be so nice.  25:57 Especially if it like took off or whatever, oh my God. But no, it's per session. If it's a union project, it's under the union contract, the dubbing union contract, which I think now it's like $190 something per hour with a two-hour minimum, and so if you're hired for a four-hour session, that's $195 times four, and if we finish with you in three hours, you still get paid for the four hours. If we have a pickup, you still get paid for that two-hour minimum. Even if you're in there for 15 minutes, you still get paid. So pickups are kind of nice too.  26:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, do you now negotiate in contracts like the AI writer, because, let's say, you need a pickup and the actor isn't available? Right, can they utilize the voice to create an AI voice to then maybe do a pickup?  26:45 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've not had that come up yet, and I think myself I don't deal with the contracts with the actors. That's the studio that handles all of that. So I think some of them might have an AI writer, some of them might not. So if you're an actor into dubbing and you want to check that out, make sure you read your contracts and see if it's in there and if it's not ask them and see if they'll do it, because a lot of them will, but at this point I don't think we've had that issue.  27:09 We always find workarounds honestly like even if we missed a line, maybe we have a backup or we can frankenstein something together, or if we missed a breath or a laugh here, I'll just steal it from somewhere else and plug it in there so I don't have to have anything to save that money for the client, so that we don't have to worry about that pickup. And even for incidental. Sometimes I'll jump in the booth and if I just need a line or something to cover whatever, I'll just jump in there. I'm like, let me just do it, it'll be really fast, it's fine, I'll just do it.  27:37 So, but yeah, it can be lucrative if you're a lead, because that means multiple sessions. If you're an incidental, it's just fun practice and maybe it's one session, one and done and you're in and out and that's still fun. But also, I think, when actors do get on the radar of these studios and directors then and they do it one time, two times, and they do well, we like working with cool people, good people, good actors, so we're gonna have you back and you'll get in that roster, in that pool of people, and you just kind of start working, working, work and it's kind of cool that way.  28:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah. Well, that's nice. So then, the first thing, if voice actors want to get into dubbing is, I would say bump up your acting skills, yeah absolutely. Do you have good recommendations for acting classes, like in-person acting classes, online acting classes or working with a coach? Perhaps All of it?  28:30 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Honestly, I feel like if you can do in-person, that's great because obviously you're feeding off the energy of everybody. I prefer being in person with people versus Zoom, but Zoom is obviously much more efficient and effective, especially if you aren't able to travel to do in-person. One-on-ones are also great if you're working with a coach or a teacher, because all the focus is on you and you can really hone in on what needs you need to work on and improve on.  28:59 But also the group session is great because you can learn from others and what I like to say, steal with love and take a little bit of that and that and put it in my pocket I'm going to use that, yeah, I mean it's life, isn't it?  29:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's how we do it. I think all of us, when we teach voice acting, we want to get to the same end result. We want authentic, believable performances, and so, however we say it to get the actor to get there, we're all trying to get to the same end result. So, yeah, absolutely, and that, I believe, also is going to translate well to they can do dubbing and they can do voice acting, because acting is just going to help you all the way around, and acting will even help you in medical and corporate. And I say that just because you know that's me, and that's my geeky that's my geeky place.  29:41 I think it can help you even more because that stuff is typically very dry and boring and you've got to make that. You've got to make that come alive in some way to make it interesting to people so that they want to listen to it. I mean, right now I'm going through some online courses and I'm telling you like it is tough. I know I need to know this information and I am just like, oh God, I got to do four more hours of this, and so it really helps when you've got the skills to be engaging and to like connect with the listener on the other end. Yeah, absolutely so, if I am hearing you correctly. Of course, acting would be number one. Acting would be number one to help get you into dubbing, and then, of course, watching dubbed TV shows and really getting in on that. And then what about networking? How can they network with the places that might hire them?  30:23 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Absolutely Research. Google is your best friend. Look up and search dubbing houses, dubbing recording studios in your neck of the woods, See who's out there. And also I will say another trick is when you're watching these shows and movies online that are dubs, at the very end sometimes they'll have the credits for the dubs of who the actors are, who the studio is, who the director and the casting, the producer are, so you can actually see what studios are doing the dubs that way.  30:54 And then you can look those up and see. If you can't find an, email. And a lot of those studios have their own rosters that they're actively looking for talent. So you could reach out to one of them and like, hey, are you open for taking on new talent? I'm interested in dubbing, or I have. I've done a dub here and there. I'd love to be considered for a future dub and just throw whatever you can at the wall and see what sticks.  31:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Would you say that the majority of it is done in LA and in the big cities where, yeah, a chunk of it is.  31:20 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But I know Dallas I want to say Dallas, but one of the big cities in Texas they do a lot of anime with Crunchyroll I think. But there's other dub houses. There's one in Florida called the Kitchen in Miami. There's obviously several overseas, in Europe and elsewhere. So again, it's just you know Google, google is your best friend. Find where they are and search them out and do some research on that to figure out who's doing what and where, and you'll find it. And yeah, I would say networking is to find those people and seek them out and hit them up. But be human and personal about it. Don't just be like needy, like hi, I'm so, and so here's my demo. Listen to me.  31:59 No, make it make a connection yeah, make a connection to be memorable. So that because I, I get. Sometimes I'll get those emails that just say here, here's my demo. I'd love to work with you sometime Like great. I don't know you. From who are you next? You?  32:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) know, yeah, so I've been dying to ask you this because, of course, this goes along with. I feel like we're networking and there's a lot of talk about when you're running your business, because you can be the best actor in the world, but if nobody knows about it, it's hard for you, kind of. Over the years, have established a brand for myself, and a lot of people that know me for the VO Boss brand know that I have the red headphones, or I have the red lipstick because I talk about it all the time, and my Anne Ganguzza brand is blue and guess what? Jessica Blue. If anybody doesn't know Jessica or has never met Jessica, you can find her easily because she's got very signature branding.  32:50 - Jessica Blue (Guest) So let's talk about that for a little bit, if you don't mind, of course you can't really see it well in this lighting, but I do have blue hair and I have really blue eyes. You do, yes, you do Pops when the blue starts to fade and get lighter, and my logo is blue. I always have blue nails.  33:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm wearing blue nails. My car is my favorite color.  33:12 - Jessica Blue (Guest) I've loved it since I was a kid when I actually, when I was a kid and I was sharing a room with my sister, we had bunk beds and everything, and then my mom cleaned out this other room and we got to switch and I got my own room, finally, and I got to decorate it however I wanted I had it was blue carpet. Blue paint on one wall, blue wallpaper everywhere.  33:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had blue stripes. I mean, blue is one of my absolute favorites. I had blue stripes, I painted on one. I had an accent wall in my bedroom. I'm an 80s girl, right 70s, 80s. It was literally like two different shades of blue and it was like a big, like V. It was hysterical. That's awesome and I loved it, but I will say that your branding works so well for you. Did you do that because not only your favorite color is blue, but because you wanted to become memorable in your business? Is that another angle?  33:54 - Jessica Blue (Guest) that that part never even hit. I'll tell you how so. Loose flash blue is not my real name, it's my stage name. What? Um? Yeah, I know secrets galore. No, it actually came up. So I've been rocking the blue hair since 2001. Okay, and I think it was around 2000.  34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Before it was a thing, right, I mean really. I mean I would say, when I grew up it was only if you were a punk. And then you had you know, what I mean. I feel like I started, like yeah, I feel like I sort of started this trend like it was acceptable, because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair.  34:32 - Jessica Blue (Guest) Yes, exactly, and acceptable because also working in a law firm corporate with blue hair yes, exactly, and I'm like, if they don't like it, they can go pound sand because I know how to do my job.  34:37 I'm doing my job and this has nothing to do with what I can do. So but I was in a workout group with some fellow actors and one of my friends, I think I had come in with a blue stripe in my hair. I was testing the waters out to see if I liked it or not and I had just one little blue strand. And she says, oh, you should change your name to Jessica Blue. And I'm like, oh, I like that. I think I'm going to do that. From that point on, I became Jessica Blue in all things voiceover and acting and I've never looked back.  35:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is so attached to you and I think it's brilliant.  35:12 I mean, whether you intended that to be or not, like I will always know how to spot you in a crowd number one, but I also remember your name and so I'm always telling my students that until people know who you are, I mean you have to establish a brand. I mean, and so I'm like, well, make yourself a great actor and associate yourself with maybe another brand in your demo that people can say oh, I love that Ford spot that you did, or I love that movie you did, or whatever. If you can make yourself memorable in that kind of a way where you're attaching yourself to a brand or a show, right, then I think that that starts to get the ball rolling, because I think success begets success. Ball rolling because I think success begets success. And, like you said, once you start and you get into kind of the circles where you're dubbing and people like you, then it's nice because you get that kind of repeat work and I think that's important in terms of if you want to build your business.  36:04 So thank you for the explanation of your brand. I love it Absolutely.  36:08 - Jessica Blue (Guest) But it also it's not. It's not who you know, it's who knows you, because that's how you're going to become memorable and hired over and over again. So it is very important. I agree with you, but thank you.  36:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, I appreciate that. So if you make it easy, if you make it easy to stand out and be unique and you've done it brilliantly. So, Jessica, this is so much fun yes, it has. Thank you so much for joining me today. Yeah, my pleasure, and so I do know that you did say that a random listener is going to receive something special with you. Did you say a one-hour coaching?  36:42 - Jessica Blue (Guest) session One-hour free coaching session for dubbing, yes.  36:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what I'm going to do is I'm going to randomly choose one listener, and so, in order for me to randomly choose a listener, you guys have to submit a testimonial, maybe on this episode, saying that you like this episode, and so I absolutely. On the VO Boss website, at vobosscom, you can submit your testimonial. If you do that for this episode with Jessica and you mention Jessica, we will then randomly select a winner within a week of the episode release to get a free one-hour dubbing coaching session. Yay, that's awesome. Thank you, jessica.  37:17 - Intro (Announcement) Of course that's so generous.  37:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My pleasure, all right. Well, again, thanks so much. This has been wonderful and bosses, keep a lookout for the VO Peeps workout. Which gosh, is it May, june? I'm trying to think.  37:28 - Intro (Announcement) I think it's February. When do we have? When do we have? Oh my gosh February.  37:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, next month. Oh, that's right, it is next month. Next month we have you for VOP. So guys go get that ticket, because Jessica sells out very, very quickly. Thanks again, thank you, I really, really appreciate it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, find out more at IPDTLcom Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  37:56 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble for the next BOSS Money Talks episode, as they share tips on how to manage both business and personal finances. From choosing the ideal business credit card to managing your everyday spending, The BOSSES provide the tools you need to enhance your financial efficiency. Anne and Danielle delve into the practical aspects of leveraging credit cards for business gains, highlighting the potential to earn cashback and travel points while simplifying your bookkeeping tasks. They discuss the art of planning large expenses and paying off balances to avoid interest traps, alongside sharing personal stories of their credit journeys. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At Anne Ganguzza productions. I focus on personal growth and artistic expression and can help you unlock the full potential of your voice. It's a journey of discovery and strategy and I'm here to help guide you every step of the way. Your story deserves to be heard. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:35 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so ecstatic to be back again with Danielle Famble. Hey.  01:01 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, I am glad to be back, happy to talk money and finances and being a boss with you.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I love it, except Danielle. I just had to pay my American Express bill. Yeah, and I will tell you and the bosses I have a business credit card, which I think is the best thing since sliced bread and the reason why I love my business credit card maybe not so much for all the money that I have to pay on it this month, but mostly because I get money back. I mean, I try to strategically use that credit card to my advantage, for my business.  01:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah.  01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I know I have a credit card and a couple of other tricks up my sleeve, but I have a feeling you have a couple of tricks up your sleeve that I would love to know about.  01:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, man, If you want to get me to nerd out on anything ever, you chose the right topic Credit cards. Credit card points and miles is my jam. I'm wearing my nerdy glasses today, Just so excited to talk about credit card points.  02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So fill us in on how we can take advantage, Because I mean, why not? Right? I'm excited, I'm excited. So I'll just tell you, my American Express gives me money back and I picked it specifically because of that. It gives me money back every month the more I spend with it and I thought, well, that's great. That just encourages me to always use that card to spend. And for me, I only have the one for my. Actually, I have a couple for my business, because I do have a bank account which then gives me a credit card by default. Okay, I've got a debit card, I've got a business debit card, but I also have a credit card with them which I don't use right now. But they are always touting oh, you can save 3% if you buy gas, that kind of thing. But I end up using the one card only because for me, my brain, it makes things simple right now to deal with, but I'm sure that I could be taking more advantage of other things.  02:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, yeah, you talk about your credit card. I actually just opened up a new credit card for my business and when I open that credit card you get a certain number of bonus points if you spend a certain amount of money in the first couple of months of opening the card.  03:08 Mostly, really to— yes, yes, similar to my bank. Yeah, to incentivize you to use this card. Well, this particular card would give me I think it was 250,000 points to travel, and I was so excited about it because I have travel coming up to go to conferences and things like that and instead of using cash to spend the money to travel, I can use these points as another currency as a way to get to a conference or two or three, or travel or stay at hotels. So it's a way of utilizing the money that I'm spending anyway and having a different currency to be able to use it. And that's a way of utilizing the money that I'm spending anyway and having a different currency to be able to use it. And that's just sort of the beginning. You're talking about money back into your business, but I just I love talking about like points and miles because you're spending the money anyway for your business, right, and so you're getting this currency back to be able to do other things with it.  04:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you a question Are you looking always for deals, current deals with new credit cards, or is it just if it happens to come up when you make a purchase, sometimes like well, let's say, I go clothing shopping, sorry, and they'll be like well, you can save 20% on your order today if you open up a credit card with us. And there'll be a lot of times that I'll do that just because I want to save the 20%, and then I really don't have any intention of using it again. If it's a store I don't shop frequently, but I will absolutely do that. But now I also know that that does affect my credit score. It's not always a negative impact on the credit score, because I happen to have I'm very proud of the fact that I have a really good, almost perfect, credit score.  04:39 - Intro (Announcement) Oh, great yeah.  04:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) After many, many years.  04:41 - Intro (Announcement) And.  04:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm like. Well, I don't know, is that going to affect if I open up a credit card? How do you handle the credit cards?  04:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So again, we've talked about this. For me I'm dealing with personal, totally separate than business. So, for example, with my business credit card that I just opened, I knew that I was going to have a lot of really big expenses coming up for the business and because I was planning that, I was looking for a credit card to be able to capitalize on the amount of money I was already planning on spending and had already planned and put that money aside to pay this.  05:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, so let me ask you so, for example, not that I'm going to delve that deeply, but I'm thinking was this for travel for a voiceover conference, or maybe new equipment or something new for your studio, or maybe demos right, things that you would invest in, right for your voiceover business?  05:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, big ticket items like a demo or a voiceover conference would be a good opportunity to maybe look into this Potentially yes, I always give a caveat first with using credit cards at all, and you're talking about your great credit score and I'm proud to have really worked to build my credit score as well. To have a great credit score is making sure that you can pay the credit card off in full at the end of the month.  05:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, thank you for saying that. Yes, I absolutely make it a point to do that every single month, exactly.  05:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because if you don't, then you're actually kind of not really getting all the perks and having the benefits of having this credit card, because then you're paying this huge fee for interest and things like that. So for me, when I'm looking at credit cards be it for personal or for the business I want to make sure that I have the ability to pay it off. It's almost like using the cash that I already had on hand to pay off this bill and I'm getting this huge point value, or I'm getting points along the way.  06:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that, because I will always, when we talked about our business accounts, our bank accounts, I am so thankful and grateful for that business savings account. Because that business savings account says to me I've got a big ticket item coming, I have the money that I can pay it all off at the end of the month, which I think absolutely is so important. And I'll be the first to admit I mean I have let my credit cards go.  06:48 I mean when I was younger and foolish, I let my credit cards go and have a balance and at one point there was a big balance on it and you end up spending so much money on interest that it's not necessarily an ideal situation, that's for sure, and especially if this is your business and I'm not saying that you have to wait to buy everything until you can pay it off at the end of the month. However, it certainly makes things a whole lot easier.  07:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it makes things a lot easier and also you're able to plan for what's coming up. So you're being proactive about what you're doing for your business. Talk about, like big-ticket items buying a new booth or a microphone or demos Lord knows, they're not inexpensive and so these are things that you need to plan for, and by planning for it and having the financial resources able to pay for it, then really you're able to utilize other tools to get you a little bit more for the money that you are already planning on spending. You are already planning on spending. This is actually something I learned from a personal finance situation when I was trying to really understand like money and finances and learn about, like, how money works.  07:52 I learned in my own personal life that if I didn't have the cash to spend on something, I was putting myself deeper in a hole by spending additional money on interest because I really didn't have the money to buy that thing in the first place. Now I understand. You know, not everyone has the money to like pay everything off in full. I was at my grocery store and, ann, I will tell you they have pay over time at my grocery store. Oh man.  08:18 It's unreal and I get it. Times are tough and money can be really, really tight. Get it, times are tough and money can be really really tight. But I do think this is an opportunity for planning for certain big expenses that you can utilize, opening up a credit card or using your credit card to be able to get you things like protections for that device. You know, if you use a certain credit card, they may cover it instead of needing to get the extra insurance.  08:43 That's actually a really good point. Yeah, there are so many different things that you can utilize by using a credit card for let's talk about business for the business purchases that you're doing.  08:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So warranty like additional warranty or protection, so I wouldn't have even thought that actually, if you buy it with your credit card, does it give you additional protection?  09:00 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, yeah, and also my boyfriend was telling me that his debit card, his number, got like taken or hacked or something like that, and so they were trying to take money out of his account. But if that happens with a credit card, you're dealing with the bank's money, not your own personal money, so it's a little bit easier to get that money recovered if something would happen with it.  09:20 So there are so many different protections that can happen. And even you said you have one credit card for your business for bookkeeping we talked about bookkeepers and things like that.  09:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's one ledger to be able to cross-reference and say, okay, this is what I spent over the course of time, and I mean I'm getting so excited right when I went to a conference.  09:42 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I went to J Michael's Euro Retreat. Actually, when you and I met in person to Amsterdam, you know I flew there on points. My flight was totally covered by points and it was accumulation of points that I had spent by utilizing my credit card for all of the business expenses that I pay monthly. My Source Connect, my Zoom accounts, my all of this stuff. It's paid through a credit card. And then I had accumulated enough points to be able to fly for free Business class.  10:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was nice. I love using my credit card to pay for all my monthly subscriptions because, again, my one subscription that I have for personal right, which is I have a subscription, peloton which is like $44 a month, which is some crazy amount, but I use it. So for me it's worth it and it's funny because the amount that I'm getting paid back on that credit card pretty much pays for about half of that. So it's kind of cool. I broke my monthly price down from $44 to like $24. And so it really works out. It's $24 a month. So for me that works. And so, if you can look for those creative ways. But like, how much time do you spend looking for deals or checking on the deals? Because a lot of times I think credit cards will have a deal and then it only lasts for a certain amount of time, right, and then maybe interest rate will go back up or maybe it won't get 3% or 4% on gas purchases. You won't get it anymore. So how on top of it do you have to be?  11:08 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think you would need to be on top of it. If that's something On a monthly, probably on a monthly basis. If that's something that you are planning on, for example, opening up a new card, for example, for me, I was ready to open a new card, and so I spent a couple of hours on Google YouTube like just checking around to see what was out there.  11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what do you Google? So, if you're searching for a new credit card, what do you Google? What's a smart thing to search for?  11:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) For this one, I was looking for business credit cards because again, personal and business. So there are some business credit cards you can get. You can just Google best business credit card in the year. And then, for the most part in Google, it'll tell you, like what options are available and it'll even give you potentially some hints if you were to go into incognito mode. When you're looking for new credit cards, the bonus points may be higher than when you just search for it normally.  12:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's so interesting because you're right, because your information is in Google anyways. There's the tip of the day, Guys, we can go home now Because I think that's a great tip. Like you would I never would have thought of that to go in incognito mode, because then they're not necessarily going on information that they already have on you for that credit card and you might get better deals.  12:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, exactly.  12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because more than likely, they know that I have an American Express credit card that I've used online 100 billion times before.  12:29 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So they're not trying to bring you in as a new customer because they don't know that you are or are not a current customer.  12:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So do your searching in incognito mode.  12:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I love that, yeah, and that's actually exactly what happened to me. I was looking for this particular credit card and my first Google search said okay, great, 150,000 points. Wonderful when incognito mode, 250,000 points, same card, same everything. And I was like oh, what can I do with 250,000?  13:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) points. I would just say, personally, this doesn't matter. I mean, you could be shopping for studio equipment, right, which I always say. Vioboss has a great studio equipment list that you can certainly click on and buy. But when you are searching for equipment online, I mean you can even like do that in incognito mode, or if you're signing up on a website for the first time, a lot of times they'll give you an offer for, say, 15% on your first order, right, or whatever it might be, and so I might be going back to the same company that I already purchased something and I'll sign up with a different email address so that.  13:35 I can get that discount and that will actually help me to make that decision. Well, all right, I can save 15%. So, yeah, that's good, that's good for me, I'll buy it. So same thing with a credit card, right. So when you're shopping, pretend like you are a new person shopping for that, and I think you'll get a really good deal, yeah, and just look around and shop around Again.  13:54 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) When you're ready to make these big purchases is a good time to start looking to see I'm going to spend the money anyway, what can I get for the amount of money that I'm planning on spending? So that's a really great opportunity. But also there are ways to get deals or to get stuff for the points that you're already accumulating. In some ways it can be just cash back. In other ways it could be travel, which I absolutely love that because I like to travel anyway, and I'm going to be traveling for some of these conferences or staying at hotels.  14:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And hotels too, like, if you are, we're a Marriott vacation owner and so we try to stay at Marriott's whenever possible because we can get points with Marriott's, and so then when I go to a voiceover conference, I can use those points theoretically to either have a room if I'm not provided a room already, but if I'm provided a room, I can use the membership that I have to upgrade that room, yeah, and then get maybe a free breakfast or get access, get free water. Gosh knows that we need water all the time.  14:55 So, I'm always looking for that free water deal. I'm like, okay, I am a gold card member or I'm a Marriott club member and so I need my free water today. Right, yeah, so every time I go to VO Atlanta, they don't put water in the rooms anymore. And now they're doing a thing. Well, they do. I'm sorry, Excuse me.  15:15 There was one place that I went where they don't put water in the rooms they now have, like a place where you can fill like a refillable sort of thing, which I think is a great idea so that you don't have to waste the plastic bottles anymore. But at Vio Atlanta, at that hotel I had credit at the store so I would go down and get like the big because I drink a lot of water. I get one of the big bottles of water every day for my coffee machine. I don't love Starbucks coffee, so I'd make my own coffee. But yeah, there's so many cool things you can do with hotels and airfare.  15:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And even having access to like, for example, you said, american Express. You have an American Express card. There is the American Express card that has access to what's called fine hotels and resorts. So you can book through that relationship and I was actually looking at that for a trip that I was taking and you get like free breakfast and early check-in and check-out and you get like an experience credit at that hotel. So you get more just by having the virtue of having this relationship, which then can possibly make your stay a little bit more comfortable.  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're saying the relationship with money can help you get more things?  16:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, and have a different quality of life.  16:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you can have a good relationship with your credit card, and I think that's a good thing. Have good relationships with your credit card, not bad ones.  16:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and that actually is a really, really good point, because I grew up and I'll just have a little bit of a transparency moment I grew up hearing credit is bad, credit cards are bad, do not use it, and I actually didn't even get my first credit card until I was in my mid-20s because I was told that I didn't need it because it was bad and nothing good could come from it. But really it's a tool that can be used to enhance your quality of life, to give you more protections, if used properly.  17:03 If used properly, that's the caveat and understanding how it works and what the tool is to be used. That interest, if you're carrying interest, is a tool that can work against you so quickly because that interest rate for credit cards specifically, is so high. And you'll know what it is because you can actually log into your account and see what the interest rate is. This is not secret stuff and see what the interest rate is. It's not, this is not secret stuff. So if you go and you take a look at it and you see, okay, I'm spending 20, 25% interest Every single month, it's working against you. But then we talked about the savings accounts, right, and how much you can make in having interest when you have your money with some of these accounts.  17:48 So it can work for you but also interest, can work against you. If not, this tool is not being used and utilized responsibly and properly for what is needed for.  17:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and it's so hard sometimes when you lose that control. I think it has to do with well, I don't know, maybe we talk about like we're talking about, you know credit cards and all that, and so I think, with all due respect, we do have to say we have to have a respect for it, for the credit card, a respect for the money so that it is being used responsibly, Because when it does get out of control and I will tell you, as a young girl, mine got out of control and I ended up having a huge balance and then spending this atrocious amount of interest on it and I, like you, was told that credit is bad. You should really just pay for everything. You should have the money right. If you don't have the money for it, don't buy it Right, which I agree with right.  18:37 I know where that philosophy is coming from. It was meant for protecting me. However, you still, I think, need to have the money before you buy it, but now you can use the credit card as a tool to get more right and to maybe get more value for that. So I think the idea, the premise, is still the same Make sure you have the money before you buy it. I mean, in an ideal situation you should have the money to buy it, Otherwise maybe not buy it and then use a credit card as a tool that has benefits and perks and all those other things so that you can get more value out of it.  19:11 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. So what sorts of things, danielle, do we have to watch out for when maybe we're using credit cards for our business or shopping for credit cards in our business? Are there any red flags out there? What do you?  19:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) recommend? I recommend having a business credit card, specifically one that is for business. You can get like what would be a personal credit card in your business's name, but that goes back to sort of mixing the business and personal. There are business credit cards for a reason. I would utilize a business credit card when you're looking to open up a credit card for your business, and it does need to be in your business's name.  19:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I agree, I have both a business and a personal. Yeah, american Express and Costco. By the way, I have both a business Costco card and a personal Costco card.  19:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, so just whatever is business and personal, they are completely separate entities. Your business, if you run your business in a certain way with like a LLC, for example, it has its own federal identification number. Yeah, so like it's really a separate entity. So if you're going to be looking for a credit card for your business, look for business credit cards, and I have found that business credit cards will offer certain protections for things that we utilize, things for business for. I even saw American Express Platinum has like a credit for the Adobe Creative Cloud, and so if you utilize, you know, adobe Audition, for example, then maybe that's something you know you want to use it for. So, looking for things for a business, looking for a business credit card, is the first thing that I would take a look at.  20:46 Second of all, be prepared to get a new credit card if you do have like large purchases that you're already planning for, going back to essentially having the cash on hand to justify the amount that you're going to be spending, so that you do not start paying interest on this card that you were trying to get you know value from?  21:05 And the other things that I would look at are is there an annual fee for the card Because you are spending money to have this card, and are you able to justify that annual fee with the benefits or the credits or the perks that you're getting by having this card? And there are plenty of cards out there that do not have an annual fee, and that's something to think about.  21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to say. It used to be a thing where almost all the cards had an annual fee and then they started. And again, I think it's all a sell right, it's all a sell mechanism right. They started most of the ones. I won't even entertain the idea of one that has a fee, unless, of course, the benefits outweigh, and I haven't had a card with a fee for many years. I don't know what about you.  21:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have several cards that have fees.  21:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then that means that the benefits, though, the benefits though are outweighing those fees that you pay every year. Okay, and especially, I think you're going to find that in a business credit card sense right the fees versus a personal card, because I think a lot of times personal cards people are looking for no fees right, they're looking to get the best deal possible. But for businesses, I think companies want to say, all right, for this fee we'll offer additional protection for blah, blah, blah. And it's very interesting because I never actually looked into. I have an American Express business credit card and just because of the simple fact that I got money back every month was enough for me, and I never really looked at beyond that what it offers. And so now I'm going to go back and look at the fine print and see what protections it offers and warranties and maybe additional deals that I'm not taking advantage of Exactly.  22:37 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I mean one of my business credit cards offers protections on rental cars, so it offers that like you don't have to buy that insurance Exactly.  22:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So really which is a huge fee these days Exactly. Oh my gosh.  22:49 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, taking a look, it kind of becomes a little bit of a matrix of like okay, this covers this and this card will cover these things and everything else. And, like I said at the beginning of this episode, I get really nerdy about these things. So you know, I have a spreadsheet about all the different things that my different credit cards can provide for me in terms of bonuses and value.  23:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now do you have more than one business card?  23:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I now have a second business card. I just this week opened my second business credit card. Like you, I prefer to have everything streamlined on one card.  23:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, but I couldn't say no to 250,000 points, I mean yeah, no, I get you and those points will apply. And then you know what? Here's the deal If you do open up an extra card and then you find out that it's no longer serving you with that value, then you're done with it. There's typically no penalty for not using it.  23:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What I would say to that and for me this is always my calculus, personal or business opening up a new card is is there a downgrade path? So you don't necessarily want to close the account because that may work against you. But is there a way to go from a paid card to downgrade to a no-fee card, and so I always think about that when I'm looking at getting a new credit card. Is there a downgrade path to a no-fee card that I can open up instead?  24:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you just made me think of something different. Now, when I bought a car again, I was fortunate enough to have money in the bank and I could have paid cash for that car. However, I opted to put half down and pay the rest of the half on the finance plan, because the finance plan was 1%. I had 1% and it was like literally, I think, over the course of seven years, I paid $500 or something, I don't know. It was like a total of $500 to do that, and the reason why I did that was to gain better credit, because if you don't have any credit, you don't have any credit.  24:44 You know what I mean you can't get good credit if you don't have any credit. And so when my husband and I got married, we were trying to consolidate credit cards and pay off debt and get that out of under the way, but we realized that you do need to have some credit cards in order to keep good credit and for people to entertain business loans to you. So having good credit is an important thing for your business and, as a matter of fact, I happen to know that when we were buying a home and myself being self-employed right, they looked at my credit card. They looked at my business credit card because they wanted to see what do I pay on a monthly basis? How much money am I putting out? That was part of my certification that I could be part of that mortgage that we were going to get for this house, and so having good credit actually was working against me.  25:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So what I was told and what I understood to be true about just avoiding credit was not going to serve me for the things that I wanted, in the long run, to buy a house or to get a really nice apartment or qualify for certain things, it requires having credit, and not having any at all was not helping me, and so utilizing credit cards as a tool and respecting it and paying off the credit cards in full or paying on time those kinds of things really do help. So not having credit at all really can hurt you, but utilizing it improperly can hurt you even more.  26:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, bosses, use your credit wisely to invest in your business and to get extra value. So great discussion. Danielle, thank you so much for joining me today and again, I look forward to our sessions all the time. I look forward to talking with you about money bosses out there. Great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will both see you next week. Bye.  26:48 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Discover the art of developing self-awareness and confronting the illusions we create both personally and professionally. Join Anne and Lau as they tackle the challenge of overcoming self-doubt, emphasizing resilience over inherent talent. By embracing our realities and addressing the falsehoods we tell ourselves, you'll learn how profound self-awareness can shape our lives. The BOSSES discuss how trusted companions and self-reflection can shine a light on our paths, leading to greater authenticity and success. Explore practical techniques to turn setbacks into opportunities for growth. We discuss the delicate balance between trusting external advice and listening to personal intuition. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know your voice has the power to move, to persuade, to inspire. Imagine taking that power to its fullest potential. With guidance and expert production, I can help elevate your voice to new heights, making every voice script resonate with your audience. Let's empower your voice together, one session at a time. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anganguza. A VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my amazing, wonderful friend and co-host, ms Lau Lapides.  00:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Thank, you so much, I'm already getting verklempt. Incredible to be here, as always, love it Law.  01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love chatting with you and I have a very interesting topic, I think, today.  01:12 Because, I love me some Peloton.  01:14 So when I'm not Pilate-ing, I am Peloton-ing, or I am pre-coring, but I'm Peloton-ing a lot and I have a favorite instructor. I have a couple of favorite instructors, but one of them for those Peloton people who know, cody I love Cody. I was spinning away and Cody said you know, my therapist asked me how do you know when you're lying to yourself, or do you know that you're lying to yourself? And I thought, wow, what a great question. First of all because it really makes you kind of stop in your tracks and think Honestly, laura, throughout my life there are many times that you kind of know, right, you kind of know when you're lying to yourself. Maybe you're in some form of denial, but you're lying to yourself. And I think that we need to delve deep into this Lau today and ask our bosses do you know when you're lying to yourself and what are the stakes in that and how can you get past that? Because I think that to be productive and to really be successful in this business, you need to stop lying to yourself.  02:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, and I think that there has to be at least a brief bullet hit list of how do you deal with that, Like, how do you even know? How do you start to know what are some of the dead giveaways that you may be lying to yourself? The first one that comes to my mind is do you have or are you aware of? I think you have it, but are you aware of your inner voice? Are you aware of it, do you?  02:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) hear it? Oh, I hear mine all the time. That's a very interesting question, because I actually thought everybody hears their inner voice.  02:51 - Intro (Announcement) No.  02:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I actually have read that scientific studies say that not everybody has an inner voice. My inner voice talks to me all the time. Oh my gosh, all the time. What about?  02:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) you. Yeah, mine is very strong and very loud and I already know all the justifications and lies I tell myself when I hear the voice in order to do something. And that's the next question I have is once you spot that inner voice, what are the common hyperbolic statements or lies, or fibs? That you're coming up with that. Feel really good to you to say in order to void out that voice.  03:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, first of all, what if you're someone who doesn't have an inner voice? Is that something that you can assess? Can you make an inner voice come out? Maybe people don't define it as an inner voice. Maybe they define it as a belief system, right? Maybe?  03:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) they hide it, Maybe they bury it, Maybe they've been shamed to listen to it. There's a lot of reasons why I think people don't discover or find their inner voice. I think one of the things that I've always done I always chalked it up to just being a creative ensemble type of person but I think it is helpful in a sounding board of understanding what is the objective truth for you and your circumstance if you can't discover it on your own through your inner voice.  04:08 One of the things that I find helpful is surrounding yourself with really incredible people, brilliant people that you know and trust and feel good about sharing certain things with that you can soundboard with and see is it matching what you may be saying internally or not? Because there is a community truth about how people see you, hear you and, especially if they know you, they know your thought process right so they can sort of catch you when you're going off track.  04:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, it depends on life situations, right, I'm going to say the first inner voice is the truth, right? The inner voice, really, I think, is your truth, and do you listen to your inner voice, meaning, do you know when you're lying, do you know when you're lying to yourself, that kind of thing? So I think that's when you're denying that inner voice from having any say in kind of the truth, or you're in a denial of the truth, or you're in a denial of acknowledging that the truth is going. We're getting really deep here, but you're acknowledging.  05:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Go right there, I'm right with you.  05:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're acknowledging that you're not ready for the truth right now. Right, you're not ready for it, because to get through that truth or to listen to that truth may require an effort that is like gargantuan and superhuman to get beyond that truth. And this could be anything. It could be personal, professional. I mean, of course, personal affects professional. But I'm going to kind of focus on the professional, having had an inner voice that I denied through personal issues because I wasn't ready to face them. And so for me it's kind of like you get really good at telling yourself lies, you get really good at justifying why you're not listening to that inner voice. Yes, because it keeps you safe. Right, it keeps you safe in a lot of ways, or it keeps you from I don't know why. Is it that you don't want to look or do the work that's required to get through the truth and to align with the truth?  06:03 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, there could be I mean for psychological reasons, lots of reasons, but I think one deeply psychological common reason that I see in a lot of actors, artists, voiceovers and women is the sabotaging effect of arguing with yourself that you cannot be good enough.  06:22 It's not possible for you to get this successfully done because of X, y, z, you're not worthy, right, you're not worthy. So therein lies your inner voice. But is the inner voice being honest and truthful, or is the inner voice a sabotage voice? Yeah, yeah, absolutely that. You've created as like an alter ego to help you disqualify, get out of situations you know, qualify things and get you off the hook. I think artists do that. An awful lot is to say all the reasons why they cannot do something versus why they can do something, and after a while of telling yourself those lies, you actually believe them.  07:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah yeah, I'm not getting work because, right yeah, talk professionally, right Okay, I'm not'm not getting work because, right, you'll talk professionally, right Okay.  07:05 I'm not a successful voice actor because right, no one's going to hire me because, right, I'm not talented enough, my voice is not good enough, I don't have the right equipment, right, and so therefore, does that allow you to? I've spent all this money and I've gotten nowhere, right? So are you going to quit? Because you're listening right to those lies that you're telling yourself, or the inner voices, your inner self is you right? So we're talking to ourselves. So inner self is you, and inner self could be telling lies that you fabricated.  07:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Or it's the voices that have been with you over your lifetime that are the cacophony of voices that are not accurate or true. Yeah, that you've believed. You've gone down that road and sort of believed that that's who.  07:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's the role that you are. They've turned into your inner voice, right.  07:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And they've turned into your inner voice, where you pick up the things that you believe that people think or feel about you maybe from your home life or your friendship life or whatever that aren't necessarily an objective truth in the larger world, in the larger context of things, and that, I think, is very, very common Also, especially with women. I think just wanting to please, just being a pleaser, is a big driving force in not listening to your inner voice.  08:27 Yeah, You're saying, oh I'll just, yeah, they want me to do it this way, I'll just do it this way. Or they're asking me for this, I'll just give it to them and putting your common sense, putting that to the side for the higher purpose of pleasing, yeah, absolutely.  08:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, that is so, so tough, and I'll tell you what, and I'm not getting into a political discussion, but I will say that external factors also play a part in that inner voice, right.  08:56 I feel like the nation is tired. Female right and we've had discussions on being a female in this industry or being a female in male-dominated industries. I'm tired. I've been fighting for a long time. I've been fighting for a long time and the inner voice wants to say, right, I fight because I believe certain things to be true and that is my truth. Right, but then the other people feeding into the inner voice you're not good enough or you know what? We're never going to make a difference. Now do I feel like? Am I going back to step zero? And what is it that I need to resolve internally, with my internal voice? That's going to help me to deal right with the external factors that are flying at me in every second of the day, and that's important.  09:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's an important factor. It is every second of the day and that's important. That's an important factor because when you think about either your parents or whoever raised you when you were young, you're like a little recorder. You're like a sponge. You're picking up language and sound and cadence and everything. You're picking that up from the people around you and that's implanted in you. It's very hard to get that out and stop thinking that and doing that. So it's really again compartmentalizing. Okay, what my lived and learned experience was and still is good, bad and ugly, which everyone experiences. And then where am I as a professional in what I'm choosing to experience and who I'm creating?  10:24 Someone was telling an anecdote about this and I thought it was brilliant and he said I get annoyed. He's like in his 40s. He's a professional, whatever it was, like a psychiatrist or something. He said I go home and my parents treat me exactly like I'm 12 again, they talk to me as if I'm 12. Mine do Right and you got to love that right. But it annoys him to death because he says I have a family, I have children, I have a successful career. It's like they haven't graduated to that level. But that's where I'm saying you have to compartmentalize all these players in your life that speak to you in a certain way, sure, that code that linguistically code shift right, that say it's okay, they knew me at different times in my life good times, bad times, young, older. Now I have to amalgamate. What does that all mean in my voice? In my voice as to who I am and what I want to be? That's hard. That's the next step. Yeah, that's the next step.  11:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean it's interesting because, as we are talking about the inner voice, is the inner voice really what you think or is it what others think, right? Or is it a combination of both of them? And also, is your inner voice something that you're doing to escape responsibility or escape owning up to a fact that maybe you haven't done everything you can to be successful in voice acting? And then, if that's the case, right, you have to try to ask yourself why, right, why am I afraid of success? And that's a big thing, I mean, look, you can be just as afraid of success, if not more, as a failure, right? Are you afraid to fail? Are you afraid of success? And I'll tell you what. Are you afraid of hard work? Yeah, and once you're there, whatever you've deemed to be your success, right. What's stopping you from growing more than that? Or are you complacent?  12:09 For me, my personality is I cannot be stagnant. I cannot. I need to continue to grow my business. I need to continually evolve. If I don't, I feel like I'm failing, and for me, that's the motivation I need to push myself. Now, am I afraid of hard work? Me, no, I am not.  12:25 But some people might be, some people might think, well, I just want, I just I'm tired, I've got a lot of other things happening and voice acting should not have been this hard for me, right In the beginning. I'm the first person to admit voice acting was hard for me, and it was one of those things where I said to myself God, like, maybe I shouldn't be doing it. If it's this hard, right, shouldn't it just come naturally? Shouldn't I just have a God-given talent? Shouldn't this just flow for me? And over years of continually saying, well, I'm not used to failing For me myself. My personality is like to just keep going until I don't fail, figuring out as I go, I ultimately decided, yeah, damn it, it's hard, voice acting is hard. I think it's very rare that you have anybody that has just an innate talent for reading words off a page and making them like sound amazing.  13:09 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I got to be honest. I don't think anyone in any of our entertainment profession has it easy.  13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't. I don't either. I really don't. Just because you and I have been in the industry for many, many, many years right and we've been deemed successful, doesn't mean that we feel successful all the time right, doesn't mean that we feel successful all the time right or that we consider ourselves successful at any given moment.  13:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, that's like an illusion that people want to think is a truism, is a truth. When it's not a human truth, it's not a human thing. Maybe it's a robot thing, but it's not a human thing Because we're always going through situations in our life that we're reacting to, as well as human beings in the world that we're reacting to as well as human beings in the world that we're reacting to as well.  13:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And things change.  13:51 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And things change. But I always say, like, what's the difference? What's the main difference between someone who's young and amateur early stage and someone who is a vetted professional? What's the main difference? And it's not talent, it's the fact that we all get down. We all fall down. We all's not talent, it's the fact that we all get down, we all fall down, we all get in trouble, but we're able to get up, brush ourself off and move on.  14:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Get back on the horse and make use of that.  14:13 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, really make use of that, whereas many are not able to do that. It's holding them down, it's holding them back. There's that stone right on top of them that they're not able to move. So that voice is like as heavy as any equipment that could be out there. It's heavier. It can be either a burden or it can be enlightenment.  14:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's up to you. I love what you're saying about the failure Again, like if you failed and you've allowed that inner voice to say I am a failure, right, without taking benefit from the fail, I'd say get back up on the horse, turn the fail around and spin that into positive things. What positive things can you take from that right?  14:53 So, if there is the dialogue happening where I'm not good enough right, I failed, I didn't get that gig right, I was not chosen right, they didn't pick my voice, I didn't nail the audition. Take that failure and I need you to reframe it right and restructure it so that it becomes a learning moment that can be turned into success. I mean, I think that's really like how do you know when you're lying to yourself? Acknowledge it first. I think that's first and foremost.  15:19 Once you acknowledge it right. You then have the power to take that truth and take that knowledge and reframe it, and then reframe it to successful.  15:30 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Reframe it and how do you use, how do you utilize that reframing to be helpful in your life and in others' lives? So it becomes wisdom. It doesn't just sit in a place where it's a bad experience or it's an experience that was a great experience. It becomes a nugget of wisdom for you.  15:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That becomes your proverb of how you live your life and how you utilize that in your life and we're speaking, so I think, so ethereal, and I want to kind of bring this down to like okay, I might have a student who's come to me and said well, I spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this demo and now everybody tells me it's a piece of garbage and I guess I just didn't know or I failed or that's it, that's why I'm not successful. So I always try to tell people look, life is a learning journey, right, and what sort of energy is positive or helpful? If you're going to sit there and berate yourself for getting a demo that maybe some people don't like, right, or that you don't like or doesn't serve you, that energy is wasted on yourself, like nobody else really cares. To, be quite honest, right, turn that, reframe it around, say I've made an investment, I have now learned and know that maybe I wasn't ready to make that demo.  16:38 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Maybe it's learning money for you. Maybe you had to learn that Exactly that's your investment money for your business.  16:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. So you turn that around and you learn, right, you go get yourself a different coach. You learn until you feel because I believe, right, I believe we all know and then say, well, I trusted my coach. Well, I think there's also that inner voice, right, that says I may be not ready, but I'm going to put my trust in my coach and I get it. Guys, I get it. But also I think there's an inner voice in you that says maybe I wasn't ready for that right, but my coach says I am. And so you didn't listen to that voice? Right, you don't know that you're lying to yourself, right, when you're saying something doesn't feel, right, I don't feel ready.  17:17 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's the lie comes in, that's the pleasing, because you want to please your coach, you want to please your whoever, and say are you happy with me, are you proud of me? Did I do what you wanted me to do? Yeah, right. And that's where you have to start saying okay, they're my trusted advisor. I pay them for that, absolutely. But I can't put them all in one basket?  17:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, exactly, instead of being completely angry and saying it's all their fault, right, In reality. Right, you need to listen to that voice that, hopefully, I mean maybe you did completely put all your trust in them, but then again, now that you've learned right, now that you've learned from it, now you know, maybe I won't put all my trust in my coaches and I will take that little voice in my head that said maybe you're not ready. Right, they said I was, but I don't feel ready and I didn't tell them about it so that they could reason with me and say no, really you are, or maybe you're not right. That's just the demo readiness. Right, like, what about the audition? What about the person that auditioned and didn't get the gig?  18:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's so many lies that we can tell ourselves about this right. Oh, we somehow always believe that voice.  18:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We always listen to that voice and believe that voice, Right? Oh well, all right.  18:31 - Intro (Announcement) I voice. We always listen to that voice and believe that voice, right?  18:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh well, all right, I did the audition and I must have sucked, right, I sucked, so I didn't get the job. There's the lie. There's the lie that you tell yourself Now. You don't know, right, you don't know that you sucked.  18:34 I mean, maybe you do, maybe internally, you kind of know, oh, I haven't really coached a lot, maybe I should get somebody else's opinion to see, because I haven't developed an ear yet. So maybe it's something that somebody else can help me with. Maybe I don't suck, maybe I just need somebody else to give me some tips, or I need some additional coaching, right, or I nailed it, and then I heard the commercial and God, I can't believe they got hired Right. So there's the lie. How did they get hired? You know what I mean, and so how are you resolving that?  19:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right, Right, I think the discipline to say, okay, I want to always pay attention to the inner voice inside. But a very famous neurosurgeon said this and I thought it was so brilliant I believe it was David Amen, he's like on the speaking circuit as a neurosurgeon. He said believe it or not, you don't have to believe everything you think. And I was like whoa, astonishing, Because we somehow think if we think it then it must be true. Yeah, agreed, but we're forgetting all the immense biases, experiences, sort of mental slurs that we go through in our life that help formulate those thoughts. So that's not to say that you don't understand an inner truth or have an inner voice that can't lead you in the right direction. It's just to say you don't have to believe everything you're thinking.  19:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you can manifest. I'm a big believer in manif. Yeah, you can manifest. I'm a big believer in manifesting. You can create. You can create with your thoughts. You can re-envision, you can reinvent, you can redirect. I absolutely believe that, with your thoughts Right, like they are so, so powerful, and of course, that audition that you didn't get right, and then you're like, oh, I must be no good, don't believe that. Right, you're telling yourself aloud and think here are all the possibilities that Ann and Lau have said a hundred times in an audition demolition. There's many, many reasons why people get the job or don't get the job right, and not all of them are directly under your control. I mean absolutely. So maybe you didn't suck, you are good and that's okay, and it's okay that you didn't get the job right. So you audition, you forget it, right, and ultimately you don't believe the lie, that you're telling yourself that you're not good enough for it and whatever you do, you must discipline yourself to not shed and forecast everything you're thinking.  20:55 - Lau Lapides (Guest) They call it oversharing, but it really is forecasting what exactly is in your mind and you're doing that to purge yourself of guilt. Oh yeah, oh, let's collect 500 for this hour. I'm telling you, this is like good stuff. Don't purge on other people. Don't go through that catharsis. That's a private journey for you, Because guess what the casting director or the business person in front of you is thinking why did you just say that? I don't see that at all. What's happening? Are you okay? Like literally they're thinking, are you okay? Because you're forecasting something onto me that I don't even know what you're talking about Right Now? You and I are coaches. We catch that stuff and we try to remedy that. But you do it on the wrong people. You can never go back and make that impression again on them because they'll always. I remember Barbara Corcoran. I look up to her a lot as a mentor in business and she's a more mature woman.  21:51 on Shark Tank if you ever watch Shark Tank, yeah absolutely she says I always Rolodex in my mind, whether you agree with this or not. I just thought it was very interesting the way she put this. Whenever someone, especially a woman, breaks down crying in front of me when they're pitching their product, I always kind of roll a dex that in my mind that that's not someone I can work with. Now, that's not to say that you can't cry. It's not to say you can't feel emotion. You should feel real emotion and not hide that. However, when you forecast and overshare those emotions with people you don't have relationships with yet, they Rolodex you, they compartmentalize you in a place where they say I don't know what they're telling themselves.  22:30 I don't know what they're thinking and feeling, but it's not my experience of them, so from a business standpoint it can be very harmful.  22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that translates right into social media Just saying right your responses, right Whether people respond like share or not, right your response. Is somebody's going to Rolodex that response in their brain and say I don't think I can work with that person based upon what they just said. Happens every day, every moment of the day.  22:58 - Intro (Announcement) Yeah, all the time, all the time.  22:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so understand that as well. Right, and so if you are oversharing, right Again, in a professional setting, especially, like you said, I think the key is with people that you do not have relationships with yet, right, People that do not know do not know your perspective where that's coming from, right. And even if they do know where that's coming from, where that's coming from right, and even if they do know where that's coming from, they may Rolodex it and say I don't think I can work with that person. Right, and I get that, and we get that too as coaches oh yeah, oh, I can't work with that person.  23:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, I can't work with that. And that's like you trying to find the jury. That's the jury, that's the audience, that's the of people that will agree with you on what you're saying. That's not the place to do it Right, and it's not even an objective truth in any way. It's just a whole bunch of people who may be agreeing with you on whatever you're saying. So you have to be careful. You have to like be careful in who you trust with your inner voice and with your inner self.  23:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm going to make this educated guess that when I ask the question, how do you know when you're lying to yourself? Right, I think you have to start with. How do you know when you're lying to yourself, when something is not necessarily going the way that you want it to right? I think that's one telltale way to start really looking inward and asking okay, so why are things not happening? Why am I not getting the gig? Why am I not getting the gig? Why am I not getting any business? Why am I not successful? Or why do I feel like I'm not successful? Asking yourself those questions and just sitting quiet in the moment and really thinking about what are the steps to achieve success? Why are you not getting that gig?  24:33 Well, to get the gig, certain factors have to take place. You have to have talent right, but not always right. You have to have talent right, but not always right. You have to have talent, you have to be in the right demographic, you have to be in the head of the casting director, which none of us are. So there's certain factors that are beyond our control. And when that happens, we have to also put in our head that there are certain factors beyond our control. So maybe we didn't get the gig because we have no control.  24:55 The daughter of a close friend. They gave the job to her, versus they changed directions and went with a male instead of female, or whatever. It is right. Understand that there are things beyond your control and that's okay, rather than I am not good enough, right, right, and taking things. Why am I not getting more work, right? Why am I not getting more work?  25:14 Well, sit down and take a look at. How much coaching have you had, right? How much training have you had? Are you as skilled as you can be? Are you marketing yourself as much as you can be? Why, if not, are you not marketing yourself, right? Well, you don't have the know-how, you don't have the money to invest in a marketer. You don't have the money, right. Why are these things happening? And really sit down and just I would say, write it down. Right, write it down. What are the things that you're not achieving, that you want to achieve, and what are the steps that you need to get there, or what are the conditions in which, when they're met, you will have success in that or not success? And then really sit down and ask yourself to be truthful right. How much of this is under your control? How much of this is other people saying this is the way it is and influencing your inner voice, or how much of it is your own self-sabotage?  26:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, and what you're really talking about here, which is, I think, the nugget here. The bottom line takeaway is hold yourself accountable to finding your voice, listening to it and understanding it right. So, for instance, if there's danger for you, if there's an instinctive acknowledgement that you're making, don't just ignore it and do it anyway. Don't just ignore it and overlook it anyway. You oftentimes will go wrong when you do that right, or when someone gives you feedback and you have to actively listen and absorb that feedback, and they say 5, 6, 10, 15 times. I don't know why you just said that. To me. It's not true or accurate. You should stop doing that. Stop doing it Like you've got to stop the behaviors.  26:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, now you go to external sources. Right, when you've listened to your inner voice and your inner voice is not helpful, right, that's when you turn to your accountability buddies, your trusted colleagues.  27:01 - Intro (Announcement) Or sabotaging.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) yes, Right, your trusted colleagues, and you bounce that off of them, and then that is what's going to help, hopefully, reframe right. You're lying to yourself, right, and your inner voice that can be lying to you or sabotaging you, whatever that is, wow. That was deep. By the way, vaughn and I are not we are not in the business of mental health, however. This is just based on our own experiences, so, please, take what we say with a grain of salt.  27:28 We're sharing our experiences to hopefully help you with yours, because we are not therapists, so please keep that in mind, and we're just here to share.  27:39 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's very true. And I have to say, if you're in business and studying this kind of work over years and years and years, you'll find that the more quality the script, the more quality the copy, the more they have something in common with great writers, great thinkers, great philosophers, great psychologists right? So we don't need to be like a clinical psychologist to understand the analysis of a line from Shakespeare. Like we can figure that out at a certain point and say how does that connect to my life, my lived experience, how does that connect to me uniquely as a person? Is that part of my voice and I mean my inner voice and my mechanical voice as well? Yeah Right, and that's what we call finding our voice. Voice and my mechanical voice as well? Yeah Right, and that's what we call finding our voice. Like finding your authentic voice means like doing that work, doing that homework.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good stuff. Oh my gosh, Woo Woo. I'm tired now. My inner voice needs a break. We need a latte after that, or something I know. All right. Well, before my latte, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Lau. I love you. It's been amazing.  28:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I love you.  28:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And my inner voice says I love Lau, I love Annie and I love Lau and I love myself and I love my inner voice, even when it misbehaves.  28:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And we love all of you listening, and that's why we share these inner thoughts.  28:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, Thank you guys. You have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  29:06 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

2025 is the year to become "acronimble" by familiarizing yourself with one of the most important acronyms in the industry: CRM, which stands for Customer Relationship Management. The BOSSES discuss how the right CRM tool can streamline how you engage with clients, leading to better organization, and more business opportunities. Learn how to maintain meaningful connections without constantly reinventing the wheel, and discover the strategies that help you organize client interactions to promote continued work. Through personal stories and practical advice, The BOSSES highlight the evolution from old-school Rolodexes to cutting-edge digital solutions, empowering you to manage your client interactions like a BOSS. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand. The VoBoss Blast Find out more at V. The VO Boss Blast Find out more at voboss.com.  00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am the BOSS with the VOS. That's the voiceover strategist, Mr Tom Dheere. Hello.  00:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Tom Hello. So that's boss VOS.  01:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Boss, VOS.  01:03 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) The BOSS VOSS, boss VOSS.  01:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The BOSS BOSS with the V-O-S.  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS with the V-O-S.  01:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know, tom, let's continue the acronym party, shall we? Yes, please, Because I'll tell you what it's the beginning of the year, I'm going to manifest multiple new contacts and you know what I need to be able to keep track of those contacts in a BOSS CRM.  01:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Whoa, whoa Boss, boss CRM. What do you?  01:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) think Boss, boss CRM I like that. And you know, people ask me about what CRM do I use? What CRM do I use? And so let's talk about 2025 CRM.  01:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Fantastic idea, anne. First off, just to make sure everybody knows what we're talking about, CRM is Customer Relationship Manager. It is a fancy way of saying some form of system where you store your client information potential clients, current clients, past clients' information which you can use as a home base for your marketing strategies. So you use the CRM to develop relationships with customers. So just make sure everybody's on the same page.  02:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then you could be CRM BOSS, you could be a CRM boss.  02:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You could be a crim boss. No, we'll stick with CRM.  02:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But CRM reminds me of crumble cookies. Oh wait, now I'm going off.  02:28 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I diverge into a tangent of cookies. I was thinking crumb, like the god that Conan the Barbarian worships. All right, we're really getting off the rails here.  02:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can see where my brain is versus yours.  02:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You must be hungrier than I am.  02:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love cookies, me too. So, speaking of CRMs, so, tom, let's talk about why, first of all, is it good to have a CRM? Why do we need one? For a boss business?  02:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is critical for voice actors to have a CRM, because I tell my students that my definition of marketing is the art and science of developing meaningful relationships. That's what it is. You want meaningful relationships with clients. Now, we all know why you want meaningful relationships with clients. Now we all know why we want meaningful relationships with clients and they know too is because we want them to give us money to talk Like. We understand that, they understand that. And at the same time, it's complicated and there's a lot of moving parts to all of this stuff.  03:24 Having a CRM well, why you want to have it is because you don't want to have to reinvent the wheel every time. You want to get voiceover work. Also, it's a relationship manager, since you are trying to develop relationships. Relationships have beginnings. They start in a certain way Hi, my name is so-and-so Nice to meet you Handshake, firm handshake and all that stuff. And then it's the getting to know you stuff develop an understanding of each other, what you can offer each other, what you both need from each other, and developing trust. Trust is one of the most important components of any relationship, be it personal or professional. So why have a CRM? You do it to develop trust and nurture relationships with clients.  04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And Tom, can I just say I love that. Can I just say, as a girl with about a million and a half and I kid you not a million and a half unread emails in my Gmail, if I don't have a place that I can go to see where are my customers, right, if I'm not doing something to organize that, basically emails just fly through my inbox and so I might forget that I was in contact with my client maybe a month ago and I needed to follow up with them for a particular reason. Maybe they were saying let me get back to you on this and I need to follow up. And so if I just relied on my trusty email system which, by the way, has a million and a half unread email messages and guys in my defense, right, I got a Gmail account in 1990-something Okay, how many years is that? Thirty-some-odd years, a long time.  05:04 When it began, I was one of the first like few hundred people that had a Gmail account and, because Google is a search engine, I just never deleted anything. So I have records, by the way, from my clients, if I want to. I have records going back to like 1992 or 96. I can't remember which year but yeah, that's amazing.  05:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I know it's crazy.  05:22 That's amazing, but fun stuff Another thing to keep in mind is that, for a moment, take out the word relationship and replace it with the term sales funnel. Yeah, a good CRM helps get voice seekers into the sales funnel and pushes them through the sales funnel. There's different permutations and levels for different people, but for me, my sales funnel terms are brand awareness, consideration, decision, advocacy. Brand awareness you send the cold email Hi, so-and-so explainer video company. My name's Tom Dheere. I'm an explainer video narrator.  05:57 Now they know that you exist, which means if they open the email, clicked on the link to your website, listened to your demos, downloaded them and replied hey, thanks for sending this, we'll keep you in mind for future consideration. They are now keeping you hopefully top of mind the next time a voiceover gig comes along that you're right for. So that's part of using the CRM to keep moving them through the consideration part of the sales funnel to the decision where they actually have a voiceover that you'd be right for and they remember you and they have your demos and they have your contact information and they actually reply to you. Hey, we think we've got something for you. Could you please read this script and let us know how much you'd charge for this? You do that and then you get the booking and then it goes into the advocacy part of the sales funnel where you did such a great job that they will remember you the next time a project comes along, because you did such a great job on the last project that you worked on.  07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you just explained the sales funnel because I was going to say, like most voice actors are not necessarily aware, you went through the technical aspects of a traditional, like marketing sales funnel. Here I always have to go to my lipstick.  07:13 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Okay, let's go to your lipstick.  07:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not in Ganguzza, unless I got my—okay. First of all, I have to have a need. I have to have a need, right, and so I may or may not be aware of different brands of lipstick, right, but because I've used this lipstick before, I'm going to start with my Chanel. Right, I have my Chanel lipstick and they're top of mind because literally they sit right here on my desk, because when I do my podcast video, I've got to make sure I have my matching lipstick.  07:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, your lipstick matches your headphones.  07:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, brand awareness. That's one thing. What's the next step in the funnel there, Tom?  07:47 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Consideration.  07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Consideration. Now, what are the factors that are going to have me consider? Now, just equate this to your voiceover business guys. Basically, this is the layman's terms of like okay, so what is it? The considerations of? Why am I going to buy this brand? Right?  08:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, what are the advertising and marketing techniques that that company is going to use to remind you how awesome their lipstick is?  08:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, exactly. And also, what is my experience with the lipstick? Right? So I'm on their mailing list, right? And does Chanel go on sale? Well, no, but that's also brand awareness too. So we know that certain things don't go on sale. Chanel doesn't usually go on sale, but anyways, I keep up with them with their mailings and that's how they keep top of mind with me, but pretty much I also use it all the time and it sits there, so I visually see it. So it's either in my inbox or it's sitting here in my desk, right? What's the next step after consideration?  08:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Decision.  08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Decision Okay, do I have the money at this time? Do I have the need? Do I have the money to buy this? Right. And I make that decision. I click on the email Right Because they say, oh, new colors are out and I'm like, oh, I could use a new color red Right. So I make that decision. I click, go to the website and then what's after?  08:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) the decision I buy it, right. Advocacy, you buy it and then advocacy.  08:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if I buy it and I love the color, oh my God, oh guys, have you seen? All right, all my friends, I'm going to say did you see this color? Isn't this color amazing? Right, and I might even throw up like a social media. You know, like, ooh, branding awareness. Anne Ganguzza Voice Talent, right, branding awareness. I love this new color red, because you got to feel confident in the booth so that you can voice confidently. And so there we go, I'm going to advocate for the brand. So not only am I advocating for my brand, but I'm advocating for this brand as well. So that kind of just took you through the sales funnel with, like, just a traditional lipstick. Sorry, tom, you could maybe use a flannel shirt as an example.  09:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, I'm a Maybelline man myself.  09:37 Oh, okay, there you go, so I want to take exactly what you said and now let's look at it from the lipstick maker company's perspective.  09:46 They've got people that they want to buy their lipstick and they want them to love their lipstick and come back for more. So they have their own CRM and through their television advertising, through their radio advertising, through their digital and streaming advertising, through their print advertising on the side of a bus or in a magazine of some sort, they are trying to get people to be aware of them, brand awareness, and keep them top of mind, which is why there's always kinds of print and digital and other forms of advertising. And if they get you on that mailing list, they can send out emails at regular intervals based on people who haven't bought their lipstick yet and people who possibly have bought their lipstick yet. They also look at did they open this email, Did they use a promo code to try the lipstick or get a discount, even though they don't do discounts, which is very interesting because a lot of brands position themselves we are so valuable and we are so coveted, we don't need to discount. We don't need to do that.  10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that for many years. It's very interesting for Chanel to do that. It's an interesting psychology behind it.  10:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There is a psychology.  10:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There are a lot of times where, if something is so cheap, I'll be like oh, I'm not so sure about the quality of that. I'd actually rather pay a little bit more money because I feel like I'm getting better quality. And that's the whole like. Know your worth, guys. Right, what should you be charging? Charge what you're worth versus going cheap, right.  11:12 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) More expensive equals superior from a branding and psychological point of view. So Chanel, chanel, right. Chanel sees all of us, potential customers, brand awareness, consideration, actual customers, decision and advocacy, and they use CRMs to get lipstick buyers into the sales funnel and push them through. Exactly Translating that to voice actors. We want to do the same exact thing, right, and a good, robust, interactive CRM can help us get voice seekers into the sales funnel and push them through.  11:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and you'll be able to know at what point in the funnel they are at Exactly. A good CRM will tell you exactly where they are in the sales funnel so you'll know what to do for the next steps. Maybe they need an additional email, maybe they need a phone call, maybe you'll put out some more social media advertisements, that sort of a thing. So really depending on where they are in the CRM is when you make that determination and decision on what to do. So now, tom, the question is we know why we need a CRM right and we understand the sales funnel and all voice actors need to understand that sales funnel, because we are selling our products, we're selling our voices.  12:17 Let's talk about actual CRMs. I mean, there's many of them out there. I know people constantly ask me which ones I use and I think the answer may surprise you unless you've listened to a podcast of mine before but I don't use any one. I use a multitude of CRMs in combination with one another because myself personally, I don't find one that does everything for me that I need. What about you, tom?  12:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, different CRMs fulfill different needs. Now, what we are talking about, and what most voice actors ask us about, is the software or app.  12:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you have a Rolodex from the 70s or 80s or 90s.  12:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That's a CRM. Yep, yep, yep, A spreadsheet, A spreadsheet. Exactly that was the very next thing I was going to say A spreadsheet is a form of CRM.  13:04 Yeah, I had an index card box. So in 1995, when I got my first voiceover demo and my coach told me to cold call because that's back then pre-social media, pre-pay-to-play, free home recording that was pretty much the only thing you could do. I would use a CRM of index cards and I had those little you know with the little tabs that would separate them into production companies, recording studios, advertising agencies, so on and so forth. That was a CRM and then that evolved into spreadsheets. I do still use spreadsheets regularly, but I also use an actual software app CRM.  13:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Myself as well.  13:44 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now, neither Anne nor I are getting paid to sponsor or affiliate or promote any particular CRM, so we are going to be talking to you about this purely through what our experience has been without hawking, and then we get a little kickback.  14:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm going to tell you, my first CRM well before voiceover was a Rolodex, and then, ultimately, it turned into a spreadsheet so that I could keep track of my customers, and that was based off of. You know, I started doing all my accounting online right through my accounting software, and so it was my customer base, right, that was thrown into a spreadsheet and then I would track things that way. So, you guys, crms don't have to be expensive. They can be very simple and it can be whatever you're most comfortable with, and that's what I started with. And then it ended up being my Gmail, right? My Gmail, where I would separate things into folders for different clients and then keep track of them that way, and then a couple of plugins for the Chrome browser that worked within Gmail to help me keep top of mind with them, and then, tom, I'm sure we'll get into the other ones that we use. What?  14:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) about you.  14:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You started as a spreadsheet right.  14:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) My start is the index card box, which then turned into spreadsheets, and then 2003,. I started using Act. You remember Act by Sage? I used that one for almost 10 years, so yeah, around 2013. And I think it either got discontinued or something weird happened with it, or I didn't like the features, or they started charging too much. I don't remember what it was. Then I did move to Gmail as well.  15:17 I'd been using Gmail as an email account for a while, but then I started to use it as an actual CRM. One thing that's nice is that you can use what? Is it G-Sync or Google Sync? So I synchronize my Gmail with my Outlook folders, so I have Outlook which is how I manage all my email.  15:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have Gmail folders.  15:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, and this is the great thing about it. I have Gmail folders, but they automatically sync with Outlook every time. So if you look at Gmail, and you look at the Outlook folders. The folders are exactly the same. So if I move one to one thing in one, it moves it to the one thing in the other, which means if I'm at my desktop, on my laptop, on my tablet or on my phone.  16:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Outlook is amazing.  16:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Outlook is amazing. Anything I do with Gmail or Outlook, it automatically synchronizes with all of my devices.  16:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In my defense, I would have Outlook as my most favorite email client ever and when I was working in the corporate world I had an Outlook account. And when I left the corporate world to go into voiceover full-time, I no longer had an Outlook server right to go to and Gmail at the time wasn't syncing up with Outlook nicely, or Outlook wasn't syncing up with Gmail nicely, so I literally got used to using just Gmail. Okay, but it's funny because my husband does use Gmail with Outlook and he just filters everything into his Outlook because Outlook is just wonderful visually, it's just a nice way to organize things in folders. But I've gotten so used to my Gmail in folders that I'm really used to and filtering. I have automatic filtering and that sort of thing, but I totally love Outlook.  16:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, I'm looking at the bottom of my desktop. For me it's Google Workplace Sync, because I have a paid Google Workspace account. And Google Workspace is great.  16:59 It does all kinds of fun things.  17:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can do it now.  17:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, and I never even thought about Gmail as a CRM that I'm using now because I have a folder for every client in Gmail, because every time I have any kind of correspondence with any client, once the correspondence is over, I drag that email into that client folder. Now do I use that specifically to market out of? No, but it is a robust, legit CRM because, like, for example I'll give you a perfect example 2019, a potential client reached out to me and said hey, I'm developing this app, I'm getting a grant, I've got the level one grant for it, so I've got enough money to pay you to do this with the app and then, once we get that done, then we're going to apply for a level two grant. So I did the work in 2019 and 2020. We had an email exchange in 2021. And then a few weeks ago, three years later, the client said hey.  17:53 I got the level two grant. We're ready to keep going.  17:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep love that. And at first I'm like who?  17:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) the hell is this? Because it's been three years? But then I'm like. I looked at the email and then I'm like but you can go back. I went back and I looked in Gmail slash Outlook and I saw the folder with that client and all of our correspondences dating back to 2019 were there.  18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know it's wonderful. This is also really good, and files, yeah, and everything.  18:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) What's also good is often like I'll have a client and years will go by just like that and they'll say hey, I've got another explainer for you Charge same as last time. And I'll be like I don't remember, but my CRM does, because I look in, I see the email and last time we charged this, and then I can make a decision yeah, that's good.  18:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or it's been a few years. So now I search engine and again, I'm an authority on that because I have a million and a half unread email messages. And, by the way, they're unread because what I do is I subscribe. Just for those people that are wondering, I subscribe to every corporate list, every corporate list, because I want to learn as much about how companies that I want to voice for market to their customers, and so I sign up for a lot of mailing lists and I just let it filter through so I can see how they market. And that's honestly how I learned marketing Tom really through just everybody else and looking at everybody else. So I don't have a problem with not having an empty inbox I know some people do but again, I must have probably, I want to say, a good 300 folders within my Gmail.  19:17 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh yeah, Me too I have hundreds.  19:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, at least, and I have rules that filter emails coming in.  19:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Absolutely. Looking at my inbox, right now I have 14 emails in my professional inbox the Tom and Tom Dheere inbox.  19:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have more than that and that's cool.  19:32 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But, like I said, when I'm done with the conversation I drag it into the client's folder and I've got this archive. For what did we do? How much did we charge, like all this stuff. But I think, anne, people want to know which app software-y type CRMs do we recommend. So what do you use these days?  19:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. So in addition to my Gmail, I use multiple because it depends on what I'm working with. So right now I have a Wix website and I have the VO Peeps website. I have the VO Boss website. Obviously, I've got Anne Ganguzza.  20:00 So I've got three main brands where I have websites, and so for each of those I have the Wix CRM. So I have people who subscribe to Anne Ganguzza, people who subscribe to VO Peeps, people that subscribe to VO Boss. Each one of them on the Wix website has its CRM utilized by Wix. Because people subscribe, they get placed in the CRM there, which is great because then I can send emails to those lists. I can also check and see if I've sent an email out to a list, I can see how many people have opened it, who've clicked on it and who've actually purchased, and it really has a nice series of accounts for that. And also I can just work from my contact list to send emails and categorize them as clients, categorize them as, let's say, coaching students or however I want to do it. So Wix is my first.  20:48 I have three really for each domain and then I also use ActiveCampaign because I use the VO Boss Blast that I sell as well to direct market to companies. I have a list of over 90,000 creative companies, advertising agencies, rosters, production companies, and so that is part of that marketing package. And so I have ActiveCampaign that I use to house the contacts. Now, most software and you'll agree, tom will charge based on how many contacts you have in there. So, at least for ActiveCampaign, I have like 200,000 contacts in ActiveCampaign and so I pay a hefty price for that and they charge per contact. But I'm doing that because I've got a list of 90,000 and I've splitting that list up and doing marketing for other VO bosses and so I spend a lot of money on that product. So between the two Wix, well, three on that product. So between the two Wix, well three, gmail, wix and ActiveCampaign. I've got three CRMs that I'm utilizing for different needs Cool.  21:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Like we've already established, I use Gmail and I do use spreadsheets for very niche-y genres like political, because I like to see in one space who they are, what their contact is, when did I reach out? Did they open the email, did they reply, did I get on their roster, did I book? And then that stuff eventually makes its way into my CRM. Like Anne, tomdeercom and VOStrategistcom are both Wix-based sites, so I have two separate CRMs. The TomDeer CRM is obviously for voiceover clients, the VO Strategist CRM is for students and I have different tactics and strategies and I have different sales funnels and workflows for each of those and they both work great. For many years I also I remembered I used to use MailChimp and before that I used Vertical Response and they were both great they were both great.  22:41 But the one Vertical Response and they were both great. They were both great, but the one the CRM that I was using religiously before I fully migrated to Wix was Cloze. C-l-o-z-e.  22:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is a fantastic CRM. I know the name.  22:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Just vision this you wake up in the morning, you get an email in your inbox saying, hey, these are the people you haven't reached out to in three months, and then you can click on that name and then it takes you to cloze and it'll say oh, would you like to use one of the email templates that you created? You click on the template and you look at based on what genre of voiceover they cast, where they are in the sales funnel, and it already it populates it with their name. You can obviously do a little extra personalization as you see fit. Click send. Then you'll get a notification if they open the email. You'll get a notification if they clicked on any links in the email and it has a project manager. So if you, for example, narrate long-form e-learning or an audio book, you can set up benchmarks for like audio book record and deliver the first 15 minutes, get approval for the first 15 minutes, record chapter one, record chapter two, record chapter 20, send them an invoice, do corrections, market that this book is now on sale, and so on and so forth. It's fantastic. It's only like 200 something a month.  23:56 And and did not know this before I say it is I just realized that you can rent my video Clothes for Voice Actors at voestrategistcom. Right now it's a rentable video, so you can stream it for $5 for 72 hours. You can just rent it. Most of my videos are 20 bucks, but that's one of the videos that I'm promoting for five bucks and Ann didn't even know that and I didn't even think about that when we were like what are we going to talk about this month? So when we were like what are we going to talk about this month? So yeah, so if you go to veostrategistcom, go to the video section, you can rent it for $5.  24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now one thing I just want to say, tom, is like, no matter what CRM you use, it does take some time to set up. I mean, there is some work involved in setting up a CRM and getting your contacts in there. I had tried Nimble for a while, but Nim based their pricing on the size of your mailbox and, of course, with over 1 million unread emails, it was prohibitively expensive. Now you said, tom, for the low price of only $200 a month, which may or may not be something that people have in their budget. But I will say that that's really nice. That Cloze will say hey, look, you haven't contacted these people in three months. I think that's wonderful.  24:57 Right now I have like a boomerang app that's on my Chrome browser and, I think, gmail. Now you can schedule emails and if you need to respond, you'll notice it'll come back, say, hey, you haven't responded to this person in five days. So there's kind of that built into it. But just know that a CRM, no matter what you do, if you get one, that you're going to pay a monthly fee. I think Nimble was like 20 bucks and then they're like no, with your blah, blah, blah, it's going to cost you a hundred and I'm like I'm not going to pay a hundred dollars, I've already got most of what I need anyways.  25:26 You really need to just assess what your needs are and then figure out what works for you, because you don't have to pay anything. I don't pay anything right now. Well, I do. I should say that I pay for Wix and I pay for ActiveCampaign, but depending on what is comfortable for you and what will help you to stay top of mind and keep yourself top of mind, because sometimes I'll forget. Oh gosh, I should have responded, or I should reach out to this client, because gosh knows you could be losing work if you forget to. I've got clients who say, yes, I'm going to buy this, or I want to come back to this, and then, if you follow up, sometimes it's just that little nudge that is top of mind, reminding that we'll get you that sale.  26:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yep, and one thing I will say clothes is about 200 something dollars a month, but if you think about it, if you use that CRM and you book one explainer video for $300, you made your money back and everything else after that is profit.  26:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely Good conversation, guys. I don't know if we'll ever like get the question stopping about the CRMs, but you know what guys Do, what comes naturally to you, what's comfortable for you. As far as Tom and I making recommendations, I mean, we have a combination of CRMs that work for us and we've named a few of them. But really do your research, guys, and know that it will take you some work to set it up. But I think if you've got a CRM that's running, I mean I'll tell you what that CRM saves my butt every month, and more than that, by being able to communicate easily with people that are subscribed to me and people that I want to reach out to. So it's absolutely worthy investment for bosses. So thanks again, tom, for your words of wisdom.  26:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You're amazing. Thank you, as always, for having me.  27:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses, like Tom and myself, real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  27:15 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza sits down with Sean Savage, a seasoned musician and audio producer with a wealth of experience in the creative industry. The BOSSES share how they each authentically evolved their careers in podcasting. They open up about the pivotal moments that defined their path and how they found inspiration for their creative processes. In a world where our digital presence often shapes our identity, Anne and Sean are excited to join forces to launch an inspiring new podcast series called The Myth of You. This podcast is an incredible opportunity to dive deep into a topic I'm truly passionate about—exploring the stories we tell ourselves and the myths that shape our reality. Together, they will challenge, inspire, and guide you as you uncover the narratives that influence your life.

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Danielle Famble to explore the impact of money mindset on entrepreneurial success. Delve into the ways societal norms and gender roles shape our financial perspectives, and discover the power of open conversations about money. Anne and Danielle emphasize the link between mindset and financial prosperity, especially for voice actors, and share strategies for shifting from a scarcity to an abundance mindset. By addressing subconscious beliefs about money, entrepreneurs can unlock creative opportunities, fuel innovation, and ensure enduring business success. This episode invites listeners to challenge traditional beliefs, embrace a more inclusive approach to money management, and cultivate a sustainable future through proactive and creative financial strategies. Join the conversation to empower your entrepreneurial journey and transform your financial mindset. 00:00 - Advertisement (Ad) I've just finished listening to Creative Brilliance with Improv, Anne and Lau, and all I can say is yes, ladies, improv is absolutely one of my favorite activities, and the life of the pre-life is real. Remembering that the run-in line or your lead-in line does not only exist at the beginning of your read, but throughout, it's a critical activity. The running conversation that has to happen in your head truly makes a difference. So, ladies, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it.  00:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners, are you ready to turn your voice over career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project.  01:15 - Advertisement (Ad) Find out more at  anne ganguzza dot com. It's time to take your business to the next level. Find out more at Anne Ganguzza.  01:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talks series. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and I am thrilled to be back again with one of my favorite girls to talk about money Danielle Famble. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, good to be back, danielle. I have a secret to tell you.  01:52 What I love money, and I don't think that's a secret oh gosh, is it just me or is it that some people don't like to discuss their relationship with money, and I think that's a very important thing, obviously for us running businesses is our relationship with money.  02:06 I mean money matters, and I think we have to really talk about what our relationship with money is like. Because, I'll tell you, when I was growing up as a female, it wasn't a thing to make money. Like my parents, my dad went out and it was the breadwinner and it was always kind of like ingrained in my brain that I was supposed to do other things, and not necessarily it wasn't. My critical role was to make money.  02:31 But, in my business, I certainly don't have another purpose than to be able to make money to help survive.  02:39 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's almost like the purpose of a business is to make a profit and that profit is making money, money. Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's a sociological thing. I think it's also we're sort of taught that talking about money is too risque and it's not polite yeah don't be greedy. We're running businesses and businesses need to make money, so we should talk about it Absolutely.  03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you what I'm not really shy at least on this podcast about talking, and that's why I'm so happy that you're here to talk about money, and this whole money talk series is just like makes me a happy, happy girl. I just I like talking about it because I think it's something that, as business entrepreneurs, we don't discuss enough of right we don't discuss, and especially for myself and my values and things that were taught to me when I was growing up were completely different than what I need to implement in order to have and run a successful business. Again, one very primary one was that women were not breadwinners. They were meant to have families and do other things, and so I really was kind of at a standstill when I was growing up because I was seeing things that were demonstrated to me that I didn't necessarily think should be true.  03:52 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And I think there's also this like belief about money that maybe that it's hard to make money or you have to struggle to get it and I really believe that money can come easily to you if you learn about it and understand it and know how it works. But yeah, I mean for me too. I mean I grew up with parents who are entrepreneurs and seeing my mom and dad work together and my grandparents even working together to make money. It wasn't necessarily that imbalance in a way of the man goes out and is the breadwinner, and that actually was totally happening in my home. But in terms of business, I was seeing, in my life anyway, sort of more of an equal partnership when it came to money, but we never really talked about it.  04:41 It wasn't something that we discussed. I just happened to pick up on what I saw and then I made assumptions based on what I saw that may or may not have been true.  04:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that because you're right. Money was like one of those things. My grandmother I'm from that age where children should be seen and not heard.  05:00 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But, money.  05:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't talk about money. It's not polite, right? It's just not. You don't discuss money, and you're right. I saw things, I witnessed things and so I made my own assumptions. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because you're right. Some of these assumptions maybe were incorrect on my part and I grew up thinking a certain way and it affected how I thought about money, right, and how I thought about well, I guess I need to go out and get a job. It didn't occur to me that I could make my own money and be my own boss, and I think, had I maybe had a different relationship with money or maybe learned about money at an earlier age? Gosh, I will be the first person up on my platform my soapbox saying that if you're in grade school, you should be taught about money Like from a young age, you should be taught about money, financial, financial responsibility, relationships with money, because I think you need to have a healthy relationship with money.  05:55 I don't think it should consume you. However, I think you should have a healthy relationship with money. That means that you're not afraid of it, you're not afraid to talk about it, you're not afraid to learn about it, and I think one of the best things you can do is educate yourself about anything really, and money is no different. Educate yourself about money, because it truly is something that we do need to survive. Oh for sure?  06:16 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, absolutely. I think you touched on it a little bit. But there is an inherent fear and money can cause a fear response a little bit, especially if you don't have it or you need more of it to get to where you're trying to go in life or in business. I'll tell you a personal story. For me, my education, learning about money and how I needed to interact with money, really came from a trauma response, because I got sick and I needed to take some time away from work, and I was working as a waitress. If you don't go to work, you don't get paid, and if you don't get paid, then you're not going to be able to, like, pay your bills.  06:56 So for me, I was working a job that, like, required my daily attendance, and if I was not able to do that for whatever reason for me that was a health reason then it affected my money and I didn't have the savings in place to be, able to catch me if I needed to take some time away from my income generating source my job, I thought, and I got a random illness that just kind of took me out, and even for a short period of time actually, and I realized that I did not have the infrastructure in place to make sure that I would be okay even if I couldn't go to my job.  07:47 Sure, yeah, educate myself about money and how money worked and how I can be a participating factor and how I can have, like, my own security when it came to money. And for me, having money became a security blanket and that drove me into almost a fear-based or trauma-based response that if I didn't have money I was not secure. And that belief system really got me in a negative place around money and work where I could not stop working because I needed that security.  08:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right or money will get you happy.  08:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right, and that didn't happen either.  08:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's that fine line between we need money, we need to have that healthy relationship with money. However, money may or may not make the majority of us happy. However, it is needed for our businesses to survive, right, and it's needed for personally, for us to be able to pay the bills and to survive, and so different people have different relationships with money, and also financial arguments are probably one of the top sources of divorce, right.  08:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah.  08:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For many people, and so it's such a delicate balance. I mean, how can we have a healthy relationship with our money, danielle, how do you secure your healthy relationship with money?  08:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think. First, it requires you to take inventory of where you currently are right. So if you think about and that can be a scary thing that can be a very scary thing because you're having to really assess your own beliefs and belief systems and get down to.  09:15 I had to. I dealt with this in therapy because it took more than just me to get that out. But really, I mean, when you think about money like for you, anne, when you think about money and like making money or having money, do you feel like cringe and does it make you feel small, or are you like oh money, I'm so excited.  09:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel like I already know that's kind of my go-to. That's your thing, oh money.  09:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And really having. If money and the idea about money makes you feel small or repel, then imagine that energy is not going to be coming to you or stressed, or stressed, it's not coming to you.  09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which is a lot. Yeah, you're right. And so there becomes that abundant mindset, right, I mean? And there are some people who just don't subscribe to that theory of abundance, but I very much am like well, I'd rather be more in a positive abundant mindset than a negative mindset, because just my personality is one where I don't like to be sad or unhappy or stressed and money can absolutely be a source of stress and especially gosh knows in our businesses that we are our own entrepreneurs.  10:22 That is probably the number one reason that most people don't make it in the voiceover industry, right, is they're not making the money they need to survive, of course, for their businesses to survive or them to survive personally, and that becomes then a great source of stress. So how do we deal with it in a way that doesn't bring us so much stress, right, that it is detrimental to our business?  10:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) There's so much more to your business than just money, although in this series we've obviously talked so much about money and financial principles and everything else. But there's so many other things to your business and if there is a way that you can have fun in your business and bring that levity and light and joy to your business, the money I have found does come. I used to be a musical theater actor before I became behind the mic and I found that when I was happy and joyful for my friends who were booking work, I actually started booking more work. There was almost like this reciprocity of joy and light and acceptance and abundance to oh there's enough and I see there's enough.  11:33 I celebrate my friend for booking work. That means that there is a job that can come to me as well. So I think it feels, and it seems a little bit woo woo and is there an actionable thing that you can do with it? Maybe just celebrating and being joyful for the work that's coming for other people who are booking work, if they're sharing it, like on social media, for example, but also being grateful for every single opportunity. Every audition is an opportunity to work. It may not be paid work, because maybe you're not getting paid for that audition, but it's an opportunity to work and to do something that you hopefully love to do, and do it joyfully.  12:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I talk a lot about being joyful and following our paths and really because I mean I'd rather be joyful than not joyful when I have to work, and so if you take that mindset right and apply that to money, right, Be joyful about money.  12:25 Be, joyful about the fact that it can come to you, right, and that, when it comes to you, it affords you the opportunity, maybe not to buy the fanciest new car or the fanciest new mic, but it affords you the opportunity to continue in this creative process that brings you joy on a day-to-day basis, right, the more hours of joy that I can have in a day, the better.  12:48 Right.  12:49 And if I can do that while making money and I can allow the money and have that mindset of abundance, that, yes, I'm happy for anyone that can survive in this industry, and especially now with all this craziness, with people being fearful of AI taking their jobs away and the race to the bottom.  13:06 Right, when you worry and stress out about the race to the bottom and people and things taking your job away, you are taking all that energy and putting it into a place that is not going to help you get more jobs. And so, in reality, if you focus your energy on being the best that you can be and finding the joy in the work, the jobs will follow and I believe that the money will follow. Now, how much money these days, has the market changed? I mean, I think, again, education plays a big role in this and education in regards to the market right and in education in regards to your business sensibilities and your relationship with money. Well, if the market is not necessarily there like it used to be, then what can you do in regards to your financial situation to either rectify that, change that evolve, that, do something different, while still maintaining that joyful, abundant mindset?  14:02 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, I also like knowing all the different resources that are out there to help us learn, knowing that there's the GBAA rate guide that can help inform how you quote jobs, or what is an industry standard rate, what is a guide that I can use to help me or even other voice actors and just saying, hey, listen, I'm thinking about this particular rate, how does that line up? Or what do you think? Having coaches or mentors line and not being, as you're calling it, that race to the bottom, and then that can be very joyous, because it's a collaborative effort that we're all making sure that the money is staying within livable standards of living rates so that we can all win. That's really helpful and that helps maintain for me, it helps maintain the joy. Also, I just feel like you have to think about where your mentality about money is coming in, because if you are not addressing that, it will come out when you negotiate your own rates for example Sure when you least expect it, Exactly In your daily actions and you don't realize yeah.  15:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're right. I love that you're talking about negotiation because you're right, that attitude, those thoughts that you have about money will absolutely come out in negotiations, with money and even I would say, in your auditioning and your confidence in your product.  15:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah.  15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I mean it can. Absolutely. Well, I am not worth you know what someone else might be worth, because I'm just starting out, I'm new, and again that relationship directly parallels, I think, with your relationship with money, because as voice actors we are all worth, we are all investing money in this business and we are all worth a particular amount and we should never consider that worth being lower or low, just in general, Kind of like in money. Is money bad? No, Money should be thought of as a means to good and positivity.  16:08 It's a resource, a tool to help us achieve our dreams and our joys and to do something that can propel us further right. Money will help me to take my career further, take my business further right. I can make more investments. I can find another genre that brings me even more joy, that kind of thing. So, really, that relationship I think that you have with money go back to if you're stressed out, if you're nervous, if you're all about like, oh gosh, I'm not going to make it because AI is going to take over or it's a race to the bottom these days. And in reality, I think that if you take that energy and focus it on, how can I resonate abundance, right, how can I resonate abundance in my business? And that, of course, I think again, when you talk about business, I think you can't not talk about money.  17:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's impossible.  17:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's impossible, because you can't run a business without money and you can't sustain a business without money and you can't grow your business without money. Yeah.  17:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because, again, I've said this several times the purpose of a business is to create a profit and you have to be making more than you spend to run the business. You, in order to do that, you have to be making more money and growing your business as time goes on. And if you have a fear or your belief system about money is limiting your ability to grow your business and scale your business, then it's going to be a very uncomfortable time running your business. And if you want to have a business for years and years and years, imagine living your life that way for years and years and years it's just not fun. Yeah, yeah.  17:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, I like to think of it in terms of money, mindset and mindset in general. Right, you have a choice. You have a choice in how you think and how you think about things, and for me, I'd much rather think about things from a positive perspective, just because I don't like to be unhappy and I don't choose to be unhappy, and so I try to think of everything in the more positive light, even if let's say, oh, it's been slow this month, right, and maybe it's been slow for a couple of months, right. So how do I take that worry, that potential financial worry? It's like, oh gosh, how am I going to make the payments this month? How am I going to pay my employees this month, and really kind of take the time that you would spend worrying about that in terms of, all right, sitting down, and these would be positive aspects of how all right. So now maybe we are slow this month, so what can we do to rectify that?  18:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What can we do?  18:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) How can I how?  18:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) can I do this, how can I rectify that, so that I won't have this worry, this cloud hanging over my head? What can I do? Can I market more? Maybe once in a while you might have to accept a job that is maybe below what you initially quoted, right, and maybe that's something that you will concede to and not think negatively about that right Totally, in terms of thinking of it as a financial stepping stone, right, and having that relationship where you're not angry that you're making less right For this one time. Right.  19:15 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But there's joy in making something at all. There's joy in making money.  19:19 What I love about what you just said is think about how much more creative freedom you've just given yourself by turning that fear, that worry on its head of how can I pay the bills this month, into what do I need to do, how can I make some additional money or income or do something different. Then you have the option to say, okay, wow, as a creative, as a person who is a creative, an actor, a person who makes things from other people's words, and I turn that through my body, into this thing that I've created and added value to the businesses and the organizations and the companies and the brands that I voice for. Sure, absolutely. When you think about it like that, oh, my goodness, imagine like the joy and the levity that comes from that. Yeah, because then you can become more creative. Okay, yeah, maybe I will negotiate this particular job and I don't get the amount that I wanted to.  20:14 But look, I made some money. Or look, I'm auditioning different style or genre or work with someone, like there's so many possibilities there. When you open up your mindset to how can I, what can I do, what are the opportunities out there? Because I look at all the auditions that are out there let's say, on a pay-to-play site, if you can see like all the auditions are out there. They're looking for human beings. They're looking for people to do that work, and so, if you look at these as opportunities, the opportunities are all around you. You've opened your mind to it.  20:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think if you allow and we talk about like, allow the money to flow like a river you know, if you allow that money, if you think abundance, if you think joy, if you think about allowing the possibility of money rather than, oh God, I I can't do this, or I can't charge, or that client is trying to jip me out of. You know that kind of negativity where, oh, they're trying to jip me out of what I'm worth. So it's good to know what you're worth, but it's also good to know that when a company states they have a budget and they can't meet the budget that you initially want, that you turn that on its head and you say, okay, well, it's an opportunity for me to make, maybe not what I originally intended, but also it's an opportunity that I can then take and turn into other opportunities.  21:37 So, rather than being angry and complaining and going to social media about it or that kind of thing, from an educational perspective, right, really trying to take a different look at it in terms of okay, that wasn't what I initially would have wanted, but you know what, this opportunity to work with this company, maybe I'll get another opportunity and it will turn into something that is more positive than negative.  21:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Or saying no to that opportunity also gives you the opportunity to work with somebody else, because your time is a limited resource and you can't get more of it. So if you're spending your time with something that is not the right fit for you, you're not making the type of money that you're wanting to make, or you just you're mad because you said yes to this thing because you really needed the money.  22:19 you may not be able to take on something else that is a better fit, so understanding the cost benefit of saying yes or saying no to something might be what brings more into your business, more money to you. It's all flowing to you, you know, like a river. It's called currency for a reason, because it's got to move.  22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love that, love that analogy. It's called currency for a reason. Yeah, absolutely. Just trying to take things that maybe are not productive for either your workflow or your mental state regarding money and finances, especially when it comes to this business. And this is not easy, guys, we know this. I mean I've been in this business, gosh, close to 18 years and, danielle, you've been in the business for enough years to know it's a marathon, not a sprint. Yeah, business for enough years to know it's a marathon not a sprint and, honestly, the attitude and the positivity with which you approach your business and money opportunities has a direct correlation with your success.  23:18 I really believe that? Yeah, I do too. It's just one of those things. So, really, I think, sit back and look at your relationship with money and your stress levels around money and maybe just sit down and write down. We can turn this into a goal setting podcast as well, because I do believe that setting financial goals and we have a podcast on that as well can really help to benefit how you can see your relationship with money and help you identify where you might need to work on things right.  23:48 So if you're looking at your financials. You're taking a hard look at what your financials are coming in and going out and then assessing, okay, where are the opportunities? And, instead of being angry or depressed or frustrated or thinking you're not enough, figuring out what did work and then figuring out what other things do you think could work. And I'll tell you, there's nothing wrong with in your business while you're growing it, to get other sources of income from other careers. I mean you don't have to be completely all in voiceover. You can do computer consulting or technology consulting or web design or any other thing. I mean work at a restaurant. There's nothing wrong with that in terms of financial opportunities and looking that as a positive to continue on a good relationship with money that can allow you to expand your business.  24:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, absolutely.  24:39 And another thing I can tell you for me, when I was working on my belief systems around money and how I could, you know, improve that was finding a sense of gratitude for the money that I had.  24:51 One of the things just on a personal level, one of the things when I was really struggling with this is when I would open up my bank account and look at the amount of money, I immediately felt shame and scared and sad and just a lot of these negative feelings. Looking at the money that I had, it is simply just a fact of what is there right now, but it also is proof that I have the ability to make money. So one of the things that I did and it could be something that the listeners do as well is develop a practice of just simply greeting your money and saying hello to your money every day. I love that. So what I would do is I would open up my account, look at the money, feel whatever feeling I was feeling and then just say, hey, money, good morning you know there will be more or less or what have you, but like hey, and just looking at it, for what?  25:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) it was let's get more friends.  25:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Let's go make friends. Let's go make friends.  25:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's go make friends, let's go bring on some more people here.  25:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, exactly, and really just looking at the account and letting whatever feelings come. But those feelings are not real, they are simply feelings. Those feelings can actually help or hurt you in trying to bring more friends to the money that you already have.  26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I love that. So, yeah, you're right, looking and saying hello and addressing your money and facing it right on a day-to-day basis. It's kind of like, gosh, my weight loss journey, right. I didn't want to look at the scale, I didn't want to look at the numbers, I didn't want to. I was scared and every time I would look at the numbers it would bring this feeling of shame and horror and sadness and so the more you do it, the easier it gets right, so that you can try to take that mindset and turn it into one of gratefulness, one of positivity. And the same thing with your money.  26:35 Look at your money scale. I'm going to say, on a day-to-day basis, greet it and then say what can I do? And for this, what can I do to maybe gain more money, weight right and be grateful for what you have on the scale at that time and really assess what is it that you can do to change this in a more positive way? I mean, gosh, what a great conversation. I mean money is a mindset. It really is. And you're right, it really is the way that you feel about it. It's just that they're just feelings, right.  27:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I've been told and I heard this saying feelings are not facts. Right your feelings while they are completely like real to you, it may not be the end result. It's just the feeling that comes up and you can, just like you train your body, just like you train your mind, you can train your feelings and really, it just takes.  27:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You can choose joy. These are choices that can be made and you can choose joy. You can choose joy at any given moment of the day.  27:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) These are choices that can be made, and then, when you choose joy, imagine how much more abundance will be coming your way.  27:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right. Choose joy. Choose money. Choose to look at your money and then choose to turn that into gratefulness and positivity, and that will allow the currency to flow.  27:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) the river to flow.  27:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. Oh my gosh, what a great episode. Danielle, thank you so much as always for sharing your gems with us in this series. I really, really am loving it and I can't wait till our next one. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout-out to our sponsor, ipdtl. That allows our currency to flow and our voices to flow over the line. You can find out more at ipdtlcom. Guys, thanks so much for joining us and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye, everyone.  28:15 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.     

00:01 - Rick MacIvor (Ad) Hi, this is Rick MacIver with the VO Video Village YouTube channel. You know, when I started doing voiceover, I listened to the VO Boss podcast religiously. It was my go-to source of information about the industry and I still listen to it to this day. Every week there's an amazing new guest and Anne is able to really get some great information. I just love it. So thank you so much, Anne, looking forward to next week's episode.  00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune-boosting power and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit annganguzacom to shop.  01:09 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguza.  01:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, nn Ganguza, and I'm here with the one and only Lala Pitas.  01:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, back again. Happy 2025, and yet another year. Here we are.  01:46 How, many years, how many?  01:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) years Lau. It's been years.  01:49 - Lau Lapides (Guest) A decade, I don't know 20?. I feel like you know, we came out of the womb and we knew each other.  01:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know.  01:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It feels like forever, but it is over two years now.  01:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's two and a half, at least, almost Two, and a half At least, almost, if not more, if not three Lau.  02:03 I'm telling you, I am manifesting that 2025 is going to be my best year ever, and I say that because we've come off of a tough year, not just a tough year necessarily for your business, but just a tough year, I think, in general for everyone, mentally, physically. I mean. It's just been a tough, tough, tough year of 2024. So I am ready for 2025, despite whatever may happen in the world, I feel like with this political climate, I want this to be the best year ever for my business, and so I had a couple of podcast episodes and we do this all the time right End of year assessment how are we going to make this year the best? But I really want to stretch Lau and talk about how we can go beyond the typical. Well, let's write our goals down right and let's do this for the year.  02:52 Let's talk about how we can really, I think, manifest success and stretch ourselves out to be the absolute best that we can be, and to be mindfully and skillfully healthy for 2025.  03:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Stretching. That's my thing. I love stretching, and when I say stretching I mean really kind of motivating our folks to just move in directions that are uncomfortable, that you may not have experienced before. Those are the best, where you have no idea what the outcome is. Because the truth is, you know, in our profession we get seasoned. After a while we kind of know what to expect. We know kind of the behaviors of clients. We get to know that right. But we always want to refresh, we want to feng shui the spirit. How do we do it? Put ourselves in an environment that we're not used to. That's going to help us grow, and as a talent, as a person, as a business entrepreneur, what could that mean? Well, some examples I like to give. Why not take a fencing class? Why not get into a class where you're doing mime and you're not talking at all? I love that?  03:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do?  03:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) you communicate through your body, through your mind, through your spirit, without the aid of the copy of the script. This is all going to be tools in the toolkit that you're going to pull when you get back in your booth and say, wow, how did I feel when I was locked into my body, how do I?  04:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) unlock. You know what. I think I love that, but I think, before we figure out how we're going to stretch right, let's sage the space, so to speak right. Let's sage the space, so to speak. Right. Let's sage the space, let's clear the space right. And what are some things we can do to kind of clear away all the? I like to say clear away what was last year and now? How are we going to start fresh? How are we going to start new? How are we going to sage our space, and I mean physically? You could I love sage, I'm a big sage burner. I like to sage it to create new energy. But that saging right could be. Maybe you decide to take up a little bit of meditation, a little bit of breathing exercises. I know that, stretching yourself mindfully, but also physically as well. I started taking Pilates last year and I'll tell you what I feel great, and I do it early in the morning.  05:08 - Intro (Announcement) So, as a matter of fact, this morning I was at 6.30 am class.  05:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, Discipline. I love that so I can start my day right. I do a 6.30 and a 7.30 back to back and I absolutely love the way it makes me feel in the mornings. There's a lot of just default. There's breathing in there, right, and we talk as voice actors how important breathing is. And breathing is amazing. I mean, first of all, we breathe every day, but like focused, right, conscious, like breathing exercises which by default happened in my Pilates class, really helped me to expel the negative energy and take in the new energy and really helped me to feel more balanced, more focused, brings down my blood pressure and you know, what's so funny is I've learned to breathe so well that literally it becomes this challenge. Well, you know that I still go see my doctor, my oncologist, all the time and they're always taking my blood pressure right, so for a while there my blood pressure was high and they prescribed medicine for me, right.  05:56 And so ever since I was you know, I got myself a little bit healthier. Thankfully, my blood pressure is actually a little bit on the lower side, but I also take my blood pressure every single day right Just to make sure I'm on top. I have learned how to breathe so that I can lower my blood pressure. Like it's insane. And in my little Peloton classes too, you can actually see your heart rate and so if you do active breathing right, you can see how it brings down your heart rate. You can see how it brings down your heart rate. So I think staging the space, so to speak, or physically do it, but also stage the space. Take some time in the morning for meditation and breathing to get you in the right head space and physical space for a great day ahead and a great year ahead. Oh, I love all of that.  06:38 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And you know we've got to get out of that fight or flight, breathing yeah, which, the truth is, all of us do it. I mean because we're running around, we're running all over the map and we'll go into the what we call the upper thoracic breath, the clavicular breath. That's our throat, our chest, whatever Can we live, of course? Can we have a great life, definitely. Is it effective for speaking? Nope, it isn't. And that's our gift, that's our craft, that's our job is to speak for a living.  07:06 So we want to move that down into the diaphragm and everything you're doing, annie, is just a gift to be able to do that. And it harkens back to me when I was a young kid in college studying theater, that some of my professors would use this, saying They'd say leave your trash at the door when you walk in the studio. Leave it there, don't bring it in with you. That's your emotional stuff that you're bringing in. I'll give you new stuff to deal with and don't worry, don't worry, when you leave, it'll be there for you to pick up and take with you. I'll give you new stuff, I'll give you new stuff.  07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Don't worry, I'll give you new stuff to deal with right Unless you're using it right for the scene ahead right. I mean, take it through the door if you need it. But a lot of times that baggage right it's not always. I'm going to say 99% of the time I'm going to say maybe that's not necessary for voice acting, unless you're playing a role that calls for that.  07:57 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right, right. I think that if you're going to use it as a reservoir of emotion, to call upon, it has to be compartmentalized, it has to be disciplined and dealt with. It can't just be dumping, it can't be unloading your day or unloading your life in the space because it's number one, it's not professional or appropriate, but, number two, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't make you a cleansed breath performer, which is where we want to go. We want to go to a full sort of centered, grounded place of where the breath is coming from. So I love that. I love that. No one loves sage more than me. I actually named my son Sage, oh yeah, well, there you go I adore sage.  08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's really important to just sage out your space Totally, totally cleansing.  08:44 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Are we ready for some how-tos yet, annie? Yeah, sure, let's go, let's do it. I'm going to lay one on the friends. That is really unexpected, but from an actor's point of view it's very elevated technique. And look into it and go online and look it up. It's called Rasa Boxes, something you're never going to hear in voiceover. It's an elevated boxes on the floor made of tape, literal boxes. The actor steps into the box and becomes an emotion in that box and it's very specific and it's very much a deep dive and intense and when they step out of the box they immediately lose that tone, immediately 100% cleanse themselves of that emotion. Think about that. The crossover to me is when you're doing like audiobook or you're doing character work, you're playing 10 different characters. You don't want any bleed of sound, right, absolutely Well, we don't want any bleed of spirit. Sure, we want to know that if you're enraged, you're the witch that's enraged, that you step into the box where you're the peaceful fairy and there's no bleed from one box to another.  09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But can you evolve that emotion? Can you be the fairy that is maybe angry to begin with and then becomes cleansed of that anger? Somehow Can you have one foot in one box and one foot in another and play that way. You know why.  10:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I love you so much Because you're brilliant and you're always 10 steps ahead. You just single-handedly skipped over two years of MFA graduate work because skip a year or two and you're going to start melding and shaping and mixing the boxes together. But the point is it's intentional. Yes, yes, it mixing the boxes together. But the point is it's intentional, it's a choice. It doesn't just happen because I can't control myself and my output. I love that.  10:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that because when I'm teaching acting for narration one of my classes that I've taught in multiple places I talk about how your emotion can evolve from the start of the sentence into the end of the sentence, and that requires control and it requires, it does require focus, a lot of focus, in order to intentionally go from one emotion to another, to add that interest and that texture and that storyline.  11:05 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's great, yes, and this is a physical, if you will, a physical incarnation of that not just internal but it's actually physical, so you can like.  11:14 We used to do as little kids play. What do we call it? Hopscotch? We used to go from box to box. You're literally going box to box and we're doing that in our life too. We're going from script to script, character to character, intention to intention, but it defines it. I think that's where the stretch comes. How do I stretch the ability of going 100% deep dive immediately and then pulling out of that immediately? It reminds me of a professional ball player. So if you're like a baseball player, someone who's sitting on the bench but they are not warming up, they are 100% ready to jump in the game and go. Is there a script Lau or is it just it's improv? Well, I mean, the experiment of it is all improv, and then you can install that into your scripts so that you know exactly what the boxes are. So there's no sitting on the bench kind of saying, oh, I'm going to warm myself up into it, I'm going to figure it out as I go. It's either you're 100% committed to it or you're 100% out of it. I love it.  12:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think right now I look at, I'm looking at boxes right now. I think we can play this not just physically, but I love the physical aspect of it.  12:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's a cool thing. We can play it On Zoom.  12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We can do it we can play it on Zoom too, because maybe Anne is the angry box right, and maybe Lau is the love box Right, if you think about it, and then we could just like okay, improv right, there we go. And so I'm not angry right now. But see, that would be tough for me, right? I've got to like work. I'm gonna have to work on that, because I don't like to be angry in my real life.  12:40 - Lau Lapides (Guest) But here's the thing you learn as an actor. You're not just as a voiceover talent, you're not just being that or becoming that. You're playing an action based on a situation, yeah Right. So it's your job to figure out what's the situation.  12:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, as we say, who are you talking to, right? What's going on? That is so important again, because we talk about, like, how are we evolving as successful businesses with digital disruption and AI and increasing like size of the industry, and how do we compete while we become the actor right that can evolve and meld with whatever we're being asked to do, and a lot of times, I'll ask people to create that scene in which the words on the page will make sense and will allow you to connect with those words in a meaningful way. And so that's where a lot of times, my students will be like but wait, they're like oh, now I'm asking them to think and it's like but this is hard and I'm like it is Like you know, if it were easy we'd all be voice actors making millions of dollars.  13:40 But even then that would be kind of cool.  13:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) But yes, it's also the commitment in the relationship. So I think that's what makes it hard is like you don't realize you're making a commitment to a relationship immediately, without the intellect or analysis that we want to take to be safe. Right, kids are great at that. If kids played Rasa Boxes as a game, they'd jump right in and be the evil queen. They'd jump right in and be the fairy princess, because they understand it from an emotional EQ, emotional quotient way.  14:12 Yeah yeah, yeah. And so we're so intellectual these days, which is fabulous. We want to be able to analyze our script, of course, but we miss the part where we're connecting our mind to our feet, to our center, to our heart, to the ground. Right, it's actually quite Native American in a lot of ways. When you look at it, it's very soulful, it's very spiritual, it's very grounded to not only the spirits above us, the gods above us, but also the nature, the ground, the trees, the roots.  14:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love it. I love it. I think we should have like a Zoom class on that. I think we should.  14:47 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We should have a Zoom class maybe during our audition demolition. That could be fun. That could be a ton of fun.  14:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is fun, it's hard in a good way, yeah.  14:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And so what's the name of that again for our bosses out there that want to jot that down yeah, the name of the technique is called RASA R-A-S-A boxes, rasa boxes you should really look it up, and it's a sort of international kind of methodology that's used by actors of all cultural backgrounds to reach their characters deeply and quickly.  15:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, yeah, Deeply and quickly. Now that's the thing, because I've got a lot of students who they're like but this takes so much time and I said honestly, like, if you think about it, like how much time did that really take? Ten minutes, Did I just work with you for ten minutes on it? I mean, it's just one of those things where I asked you, okay, what's that moment before, right? And so, what is that scene? Why are you even saying these words? What's the purpose? All right, so I love that. So we've got we're saging, right, we're saging, we're cleansing and we're meditating, we're breathing, and now we've got something that's helping us to stretch outside of our boxes, or in the boxes, so to speak, for the acting technique that we just talked about. What else is there Lau out there that can help us?  15:57 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, I think you and I practice this all the time, subconsciously we do, and that is the grounding, and there's many techniques for grounding. But you need to ground yourself In the acting world. We call it sinking in. We can tell if you're not sinking in because you're floating.  16:13 you're somewhere floating, we can hear you processing the material still yes yes, you're not grounded, you're not centered, you're not sinking in, and there's different ways to do that. Sometimes people will want a stone, a crystal, a liquid, something that's warm, that is with them and touching them and around them. That helps them ground their spirit. Sometimes it's just a mental focus, like athletes may do. They may visualize and say I'm grounding myself to the ground.  16:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now, that's a physical, that's what I like, that I'm getting, that this is physical and I use this. Actually, laura, I did steal this from you and my students because I say grab your heart right. Yes, touch your heart because then it's going to help to connect you with those words in a meaningful way, right.  17:01 Yes and I believe that that will help to ground you as well, like literally. I mean, of course I've got objects in my studio that I can touch, I can feel I can connect to, but of course, since I'm looking at the script right, I have to be careful because I don't want to look away from the script, because I might drop a word or two. But I love like just grab yourself that kind of like just kind of connection.  17:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, it's also prep. You can stop your session and do it at any time, but it should be a prep for you, so that you're not going into it cold and expecting yourself to warm up as you go.  17:34 but really grounding yourself and centering yourself as you're there. And you know, I actually have found that to be very disturbing to many students over the years and it probably was to me when I was younger in that we forget that we have a muscle that's the biggest one. We have the heart. We forget what that is, yeah, and so it reminds us of not only love and warmth and connection, but death. Yeah, because it reminds you there's mortality as well as life, and that's something that actors have to come to over aging and over time, because it just is a maturity thing. I think that when you feel your heart and you know, this is my lifeline to living it's also my lifeline to dying as well, and there's a beauty in that not to be morose, but there's a beauty in understanding that you're vulnerable at all moments in life. You're not in control of anything.  18:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think the vulnerability, that's a great word. If I had a word to put in my studio to help me to connect right and to get past the words of it all and the sound of it all, I think it would be empathy.  18:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yeah, yeah, well, the mortality, I like to think is also connected to humility. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, modesty and humility and understanding. We're not that great, that big, that important that we can't be gone at any moment, so what that provides for us is the understanding of what others are going through, yeah, what others are traveling through in that journey and that takes away from, oh, the ego of it all right the ego, you know I have something I say a few times in my classes about being a great e-learning narrator is to be a great teacher right yes, and if ego rules your classroom, get out of the classroom, right.  19:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If ego rules your acting in reality, right, it's really not about you, it's about serving your audience, your scene, and really doing that justice Now. So we've got our sage, we've got our stretching to get out of the box and to get back in the box and to get back in the box.  19:35 What are some things that are not necessarily voiceover related that we can do to expand right our creativeness and our creative brain. And I like to say things that aren't necessarily like voiceover related, and I'll start it off by saying aren't necessarily like voiceover related and I'll start it off by saying for me, if you can do it financially, travel Traveling to another country can give you a wonderful perspective.  19:56 Anything that can get your creative juices flowing, that and a good movie right. So I watched a couple of great movies on the plane going out to Europe and then I was in Europe, experiencing different people, different cultures, and just watching and listening and talking and that allows me to grow spiritually, mentally, and it helps me in my performance. I mean it helps me to draw upon different experiences.  20:19 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Huge, huge, it's everything, or even this is what I've been doing recently going to different areas and towns in my state that I've never been to before or have never heard of, and just kind of driving around looking at properties, looking at businesses, looking at to expand my universe as to what surrounds me that I have not paid attention to yet, and how does that make me feel? How do I relate to that? I think that that's important in me being able to bring it into my knowledge base, my mindset, and to that EQ. Think that that's important in me being able to bring it into my knowledge base, my mindset, and to that EQ, that emotional quotient of understanding how others are living, how others are connected to the universe, to the world, to the, whatever, wherever they live. I think that's so important. I mean it doesn't have to be expensive.  21:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, you could go to the mall and people watch One of my most favorite things I like to do when I went to New York was just hang out, sit down and watch people, because you can learn so much by absorbing the energy. It's not even about necessarily like, do you have to go to a class to learn something? I mean you just be absorbing the energy and for me, I like to be around positive energy, but sometimes being around negative energy also tells you like, oh okay, then that's also a learning experience.  21:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It reminds you too, like how do you do that when you have to do that? Because you and I are pretty positive energies and we try to stay hopeful in life and smile, but how do you do that when you have to do that? Maybe you're in a very somber or serious script, maybe you're in a character that is deeply defeated or unhappy. How do I reach that? Again, rasa boxes, how do I get into it? Very quickly and deep dive it? By understanding how people live, how they function, how they are in the world. That EQ, I think, is so—I would even venture to say, even though we're super intellectual beings, at least where we come from, culturally, eq is almost more important because it is really taking into consideration the other, the other person in a really important way, in a deep way, that many people just don't do.  22:19 They don't think to do, that it's so about not you.  22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean ultimately, yeah, ultimately it's not about you.  22:27 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Ultimately, it's not about you.  22:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not, but it is about you serving others or serving a purpose that can help you in the end. Right, I think it's not like you're not going to benefit if it's not about you. The fact is that it can benefit everyone, I think, if it becomes about the person.  22:43 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Okay, so listen, I feel a quote coming up and I must allow it because I'm working on Shakespeare right now in one of my classes. As for a mirror held up to nature. So that is the human spirit by Shakespeare held up to its audience. In other words, I'm the actor, I'm the performer, I'm just mirroring you, the society, the need, the value. I'm showing you your own humanity. Yeah, absolutely.  23:12 - Intro (Announcement) Or at least I'm attempting to.  23:13 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I'm attempting to do that. So in the mimicry, if you will, in the mirroring, there is a profound psychological effect with your audience. It's not only like this business-like ability which comes. That is important, but it's trust. It's a nugget of heart value that lasts people a whole lifetime. That I know you do and I strive for that. It's sure we want to make money, sure we want to be successful, sure we want to do all that, but we want to make long, meaningful relationships with our audiences so that we can have that legacy.  23:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, I mean I always was that person who had a positive legacy. Absolutely I mean, right, I always was that person who had a positive outlook on life. I mean, it was always like, you know, you and I are kind of bubbly personalities and so I that kind of has run my life, and when things happen that are not expected, like that were not in my control, I had health issues, right that, where all of a sudden I faced mortality, right, it amplified. It amplified that it wasn't about me In amplified that it wasn't about me. In reality it wasn't about me.  24:10 And what do I want to leave? What is my legacy? How do I want to be remembered? Right, right, and it really is about like, well, when you work 70, 80 hours a week, nobody like misses their work. When they pass on, right, it's not like, oh damn, I should have worked more. It's a funny thought though, Right, I should have worked more, but really it's, I should have lived more. And I think that really kind of planning and making time for that is important. So my husband, the other day he you know now where he works, you can take a mental health day he took a mental health day.  24:41 You know where he went? Disney. He went to Disney. And Disney is a great refresher for creativity. I'll tell you that. There you go, because you can just go and relax and have fun and allow yourself to feel right, yes, and not necessarily beaten down by the stresses of your work life.  24:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Just be present. Yeah, be present in the moment, having enjoyment, having fun, having an honest enthusiasm right Right Now. Who said this? Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.  25:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I have to look up who that was, but it's so true it's funny because everybody's like he went alone, he went by himself and I'm like, yeah, I said look, Jerry looks at Disney, the way I look at shopping, Like I can go shopping for hours. I mean hours, I mean when.  25:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Jerry travels.  25:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I go like on a Sunday or a Saturday I'll go to the mall for like four or five hours, six hours, believe it or not. Sure, have some dinner. Sure, just walk around and observe. That's what I do. I observe, that's a lot of what I do. I'm like, yeah, I shop too, but I observe and I literally could do that all day long. So I'm like, yeah, no, I let him do that.  25:44 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Okay, does that fall in? Just to circle back Now is that now falling into the rejuvenation factor, the regenerating? Does that fall into that stretch factor of like? What are you doing to rejuvenate and regenerate that helps you stretch, helps you grow, helps you?  26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) learn all these things? How does shopping help Anne grow? Well, you know, believe it or not, in a creative sense, right, we know that I'm a fashion buff. Right, we know that I'm a fashion buff, right, I'm not necessarily buying everything up in the stores, but I'm curating, I'm looking, I'm combining, I'm doing that creative, like whatever it is that creative assemblage in my head and building outfits, whether I actually purchase anything or not. And then I'm looking at people. I'm saying, oh, I like that, I like. Oh, look at that, would look good with that. And so I'm exercising Believe it or not, it's a creative exercise for me. And Jerry's like, oh, you're out shopping. No, I'm creatively exercising.  26:38 - Intro (Announcement) I'm stretching. This is going to help my business.  26:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm stretching this is going to help my business, but it is something like that, and you know I always say watching a great movie, something that can move you, move you to an emotion, to tears to happiness, to joy that is invigorating and that to me, is like okay, I want to make someone feel like that or I want to have an impact like that.  26:59 And how can I achieve that? How can I do that? Through my day-to-day voice acting Right, cause I mean we all know cause, we're all in it Right, but it's not to be minimalized.  27:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean, it's not just, oh, it's just voice acting Hell no, I mean that's something that someone says from the outside, not from the inside right when you're inside of it. Everything's a challenge.  27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I'm like oh yeah, meryl Streep makes it look easy, right, she's an amazing actress, right. But that did. It did not happen overnight, and I think that, of course, there are people who have gifts, but I'm not to say that those gifts don't require work, you know, to develop and grow.  27:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) That's the actor challenge, though. When you see great actors, it looks easy, it looks like it's natural, they're born doing it. They don't need coaching, they don't need classes, they just do it. No, you haven't seen the whole back end of that and they just do it. No, you haven't seen the whole back end of that. And they continue learning growing.  27:56 Yeah, johnny Depp is famous for going right into the culture and the mindset in the background and living it for a couple months before he shoots a film. You know what I mean. It's like hard work. There's a lot of hard work involved in building authenticity. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely Right. Is there not like a bit of a what's the word? Paradox in working so hard to building authenticity that has a technical kind of fake structure to it and that is, you know, being on a microphone, right, but you have to be able to do that. You have to be able to do that and balance both.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, oh, I love this conversation. This is such a great beginning of the year conversation because it's so different from just write your goals down, and, of course, I still think you should write your goals down. But hey, before you do that, right, take stock, sage out, get yourself out of the box, go through these steps and then stretch right and then do something that will stretch your creativity even further so that you can have the absolute best 2025 ever, ever.  28:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Unbelievable. I feel like we should have for that segment. We should have shaved our heads, been on a mountaintop in Tibet and drinking really delicious tea, like. I feel like we missed that part of it, but it was extraordinary, as always.  29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Next episode, Lau and I will be coming to you from, yeah, drinking our tea. Oh my goodness, bosses.  29:12 - Intro (Announcement) Delicious.  29:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's been amazing. Thank you, Lau. As always, it's just a pleasure and I look forward to our next episode together. Bosses, you too can connect and network like bosses, boss superpowers, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Big shout out to our sponsor. You guys have an amazing year week, year day, all that good stuff, and we'll see you next week. Bye.  29:35 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is.  00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, anne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic.  00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24.  00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. BOSS. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24. 00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I am Anne Ganguzza and I'm here with amazing real boss Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere.  01:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hello Anne Ganguzza.  01:19 - Tom Dheere (Host) How are you?  01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing good. How are you? Happy holidays.  01:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) I'm doing awesome. Happy holidays to you. Thank you, tom. Last week we had an amazing discussion about how to take stock and take a look at how your year has gone so far, and I think that it's very appropriate at the end of the year here to have another discussion about how we can best prepare for 2025 so that we can have the best year ever.  01:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Now. I've done videos like this or taught classes that discuss this every year for probably the past 13 years or so since I started instructing, I want to do something a little different than the normal thing that I do. We'll get to that, but before we, started recording.  02:03 I was listening to a podcast that was doing a post-presidential election Monday morning quarterback reverse engineer breakdown of like what happened. We're not going to talk about politics on any level, but there was something very specific that the guests talked about. They were talking about identity politics, as in how do you identify and how does that influence what you think, what you feel and, of course, obviously, how you vote, and of course, there's gender and race and all of those types of things. But they gave a very specific example of like, for example, west Virginia coal miners. They said, okay, west Virginia coal miners, we know better than you because coal is naughty, so we're going to take away your jobs, but we're going to get you a job coding, and to some people that's like oh, what a wonderful idea. But to the coal miners that may be a horrible idea.  02:57 And this is why I talk about politics, because people identify in certain specific ways. And I'm also talking about this not from a class level but a vocation level, because coal miner is an identity. Farmer is an identity, zooming out more. I work with the land, I work with my hands, I like to work outside. This is who I am, this is what speaks to me and feeds my soul as a person, as well as puts food on the table.  03:28 The reason I'm bringing up this, anne, is because and I never even thought about this before I identify as a voice actor, and I know that may sound weird. I identify as a coal miner, I identify as a farmer, I identify as a voice actor. But I decided I wanted to be a voice actor when I was 23 years old, like I was a kid, you know, I just dropped out of grad school and I decided this is what I want to do and it's the only thing I've. I mean, I've had a part-time job doing this and that I've had full-time jobs to make money, but it was all the means to an end of being a voice actor. So I have identified as a voice actor my entire adult life. How does this relate to how to get ready for the new year? I think all you bosses should think about how do you identify? And I'm going to break that down into two very specific categories.  04:20 Yeah, as an artist or as a business Now, Anne as the wonderful performance coach that she is helps you realize the artist within you. I, as the VO strategist, help you realize the business that is within you. Right, this is what's really important is that if you identify 100% as an artist and spreadsheets and keeping track of invoices, be damned, you're in trouble. You're not going to be the artist that you want to be and eat. If you're 100% business, I want to do the genres that make the most money and keep all this artsy, fartsy stuff off my lawn. You're in trouble because now you're refusing to identify with the artistry. That is voiceover. That requires emotional journeys, expression. You know there's psychology and inward reflection and all of that stuff.  05:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So you need to identify then with both. Correct then? Is that what you're saying?  05:21 - Intro (Announcement) Because I was just going to ask you can I identify as an educator.  05:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) I always think that. I say it multiple times. I feel like I've been an educator all my life because I used to teach my dolls flashcards from the very beginning. I mean, that's what brings me joy. And, yes, voice acting, of course. Voice acting because that's the creative aspect of it, right, but probably a little bit more. I enjoy being an educator and sharing things with others and hopefully inspiring and motivating, but also I really love entrepreneurship. So I feel like that teaching with entrepreneurship that's how I identify and it's funny because, tom, that you say that because all my life, through my career, before I was in education in some form or fashion, all along I also was placed in these management positions where I would be the liaison between the art department and the technology department. So I feel like I've got the creative and the business or the technical side within me, and so I think I've always identified with two, really two different aspects of it and I love that you just said that because you just I feel good now. I feel like I feel seen.  06:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, and part of having an identity or how you identify is you also demand, or you should demand. I would like to say that people see you as who you are and I had this problem with friends, people that I thought were friends in my 30s because I identified as a voice actor, and they didn't take that identity seriously. They didn't respect my identity. And, to your point, the fact that you could work in this corporate environment and liaise with the business people and the marketing people. It means you speak business, you speak marketing, you speak entrepreneur, you speak art and you also speak educator.  07:06 I identify as an educator Also, you identify as an educator. You can identify as more than one thing, but with the artist and the business part, which are two critical components to be effective as a voice actor, you need to be in touch with both of those things, have a level of self-awareness, because some people come in from a theater background, a very heavily artistic background. Some people come from a radio background, which is an art form in itself, but it's very announcer-y as opposed to storyteller-y Storyteller-y, I guess that's a word now.  07:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) That's a good word, Tom.  07:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Storyteller-y. You don't have to identify as a marketer to enjoy or tolerate marketing as a voice actor. It's a part of what you need to do, but at its core you need to identify as an artist. I would say at your core, because this is about expression and engagement and getting people to feel certain ways and obviously do different things. Go buy this car call now. Operators are standing by, but identify that. The business too.  08:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, here's what I like about this and this is what I like to tell my students is I always step back when people are like I don't really relate, I don't resonate with this genre or I don't resonate with or I don't like marketing and I don't like certain parts of this running this business. And so, in reality, I always try to tell them to step back and say what is it that you love? Because I would say creative and entrepreneur. Right, creative entrepreneur? You know that kind of thing. I identify with multiple levels, I mean, and under that, creative is voice actor, but I also love, like voicing corporate, and I love voicing e-learning, of course, because I identify as an educator, but I love corporate as well because it's a challenge To me.  08:47 I say step back and look at the things that you don't like and embrace the challenge, because that speaks to your creative part, like solving a problem. And so, for me, I've always told people, if you really truly hate and you're trying hard to find inspiration to get into that character, embrace the challenge. If you don't know like what kind of an actor or what kind of a character to be when you're teaching and e-learning, you need to embrace the challenge of how are you going to teach this lesson in an engaging manner. So step back. If you don't like corporate copy, step back and say there's a story in there somewhere. Where is it?  09:19 The challenge is to find that, and the challenge for me as an entrepreneur, is to solve the problem of how am I going to make money with my product, right? And so it's always that challenge, that intellectual challenge and that creative challenge, that speak to both or three things that I identify as which is creative, entrepreneur and educator. So it speaks to all of those things running a business, and so those things that you don't enjoy, that you hate, try to step back and look at the challenge that they present for you and embrace the challenge and embrace how are you going to solve this problem. And that's what I feel like helps me to love all aspects of it and, of course, the stuff that I really don't love. We've talked about this before, tom. We say go ahead, outsource it to the experts in the field.  10:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, it is difficult to reconcile all of these hats that you have to wear to be an effective voice actor and remember that, yes, you only have one head, so they kind of stack up like Dr Seuss's Bartholomew in the Thousand and One Hats. It's not easy. This is not an easy thing to do. So, with all that in mind, I brought up the how do you identify as a voice actor, or how do you identify as an educator or a marketer or a business person, because that should inform what you need to do and what you need to be and what you need to have to set yourself up for success in 2025.  10:45 Because, yes, a goal, I want to make this amount of money, I want to get this kind of representation, I want to produce this demo, I want to get on this social media platform. All of those are valid, all of those are important, but you can only be effective if you know who you are and understand who you need to be to be effective. Whether you like it or not, if there's one thing I tell all my students is the voiceover industry does not care. If you don't like social media, the voiceover industry does not care. If you don't like spreadsheets, the voiceover industry does not care if you don't like auditioning. It does not care. It has no sympathy. Either you do it or you're out.  11:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) People hiring your voice don't care. People hiring your voice don't care. They just want the voice.  11:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They just want the product, they want the voice, they want the invoice, you know.  11:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) And I do want to say to your point of making sure you know who you identify with, but also know that you can evolve and change right, so your identity can change and evolve. Because if you want to diversify that business, right, Setting new goals for next year If you want to diversify into another genre I mean the broad spectrum part of it is I identify as a voice actor. Is there a specific type of voice actor that you truly identify with? Oh, I really consider myself, you know, an audiobook narrator, right, and so you can evolve and change right that identity or narrow down that identity or broaden out that identity based upon your goals for the following year. Because I know that myself, in order to diversify my business, I've had to do that, and it doesn't happen overnight sometimes. Sometimes you've got to sit with it and think it and let it come, because it's a creative challenge.  12:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I'm so glad that you said audiobook narrator is the first example, because there's a handful of genres that people will say I'm this genre before they even say that they're a voice actor. What do you do for a living? I'm an audiobook narrator. That's one of what I call the lifestyle genres, as in you can be a full-time audiobook narrator.  12:49 You can be narrating audiobooks five days a week every year and have a pipeline, and do it at the exclusion of all other genres of voiceover and make a good living doing it. So a lot of people identify as their genre before they identify as a voice actor. In general, I'm the opposite I'm a voice actor, and the reason why I say that is because, well one, I love storytelling and I love storytelling in all its forms whether it's a 15-second commercial or it's a 30-hour audio book.  13:19 It's all storytelling. I'll tell any story you want and any style that you want and any medium that you want for any audience that you want. And then some people say I am an e-learning narrator or I'm a cartoon narrator, and that's good and I think it's healthy too, because the firmer of an identity that you have when it comes to setting goals for the new year, which is what this conversation is all about it's easier because I tell my students vague goals will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results and that feeds into vague efforts.  13:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Exactly. And if you narrow down that you want to get into, let's say, audiobook narrating, then you'll have a specific set of goals that will help you to get there. If you want to be an e-learning narrator, you have specific sets of goals that will get you there. So, yeah, I think if, at the broad level, you say I am a voice actor, I am an artist, I'm a business person, I'm a serial entrepreneur I like to call myself that Because I love the challenge of like how can I make money from this? And it makes me feel like I don't want you guys to think I'm all about money, but it's not really that. It's about the challenge of taking something and building it from the ground up and then that kind of exhilaration and satisfaction when it works is amazing. When it doesn't work.  14:32 You know what I learned from that as well.  14:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, you know what I want to do now, Anne. I want to use this as an example for you. So for you bosses who are watching this, you want to set goals for 2025. Maybe try it through the prism of identity. Let's use this example In 2025, I wish to identify as an e-learning narrator. That's your goal, okay, so what do you need to do to be able to achieve that goal of identifying as an e-learning narrator? Well, the first thing is training and, of course, I use e-learning as an example, because you should go to Anne Ganguzza to get your e-learning training. But can? You should go to Anne Ganguzza to get your e-learning training.  15:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) But can we ask one question? Yes, can we ask one question before we say I want to go into e-learning. Why, why do you want to be?  15:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Why do you want to identify as an e-learning narrator? I think that's important, right, and that's a fantastic question, because for some of you it may be I've been a school teacher for 25 years and I'm retiring and that's what you want to do. Or you just may be an academic, you may be a scholar and you just love learning. So you want to share your love of learning as opposed to being a teacher, and you want to share your love of teaching. So figuring out the why is a great way to start. And then, once you figure out that, why? Because e-learning, as Anne can tell you, takes on many different forms. Medical narration is a form of e-learning, narrating textbooks, narrating human resources, resource guides or, you know, forklift, certification for construction workers, or executive summaries or any or a number of things, and some of that you may identify with more strongly and others you may not identify with as much. But once you figure out that why, then you go to the how.  16:15 Why do I want to identify? Why could I identify as an e-learning narrator? And then, how can I do that? Get training with Anne, make a great demo. Then you need to figure out the marketing part of that you also need to build, possibly, a landing page on your website. Maybe you need to build a list of e-learning clients that you could direct market to. Maybe you need to join some online casting sites that have a lot of e-learning casting opportunities and so on and so on and so forth. So you can kind of plot that out. If, by December 31st 2025, you have said I now identify as an e-learning narrator, both inside and outside, and, like Anne said, figure out the why that's the inside part and then training, demo, website marketing, casting sites, direct emails, which turns into e-learning jobs, now you can realize that goal of identifying as an e-learning narrator.  17:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Now also, if I could just interject and say that, when you're figuring out what it is, what are your goals for the following year? And I think also researching the industry. Tom and I have spoken about the industry and how it's evolved in past episodes and how it's evolved in past episodes, and I want you to know and we also just came back from a conference where we were discussing how are these genres being affected by disruptive technologies such as synthetic voice or AI? And, just to let you know, e-learning is alive and well, as well as corporate. I personally, I talk about looking at the market space, right 33.2 million registered companies. How many of them are going to use synthetic voices? Probably the ones that don't care about engagement or storytelling, right? And that's the same amount of people, I believe, that didn't care that the narrator could tell a story either, and maybe they just had a nice-sounding reading voice, and so they might hire somebody for that, and so the same people that are going to hire for that are going to still hire for that, and they may go to AI.  18:12 But I believe that there's a huge, huge market. It is the largest market out there, really, of all the genres, when you're talking about percentage of opportunities out there. So, guys, just because you might be hearing stories about how all e-learning is going to AI, I stand up and object to that, not because I don't want it to, but, honestly, when you look at the realistic numbers of the market space, yeah, some of it's going to go there, but some of it's going to go there for every genre, right. You still have a really large market to work with here that I don't see going away anytime soon. Tom, I don't know what about you.  18:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I still believe that there's plenty of work for everybody that knows what they're doing.  18:51 And the question is do you bosses know what you're doing? I would say just the fact that you're having this conversation with us and listening to us means you are much farther ahead of the game than a lot of other people, because you're taking it upon yourself to educate yourself about the voiceover industry through the VO Boss podcast. With all that in mind, yes, the industry is changing. Yes, ai is here. It has been here. It is causing the overall voiceover industry to contract. That is unquestionable, and some people are asking it from the perspective of genre, and Anne heard me say this when I moderated the AI panel very recently at the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, that I think it's a bottom-up thing, that the lowest budget content will be the stuff that gets eaten up by AI. First and this is why I'm going to talk to you about this part bosses, about setting your goals for 2025.  19:45 Another mission, because there's goals and then there's missions. A mission to identify as an e-learning narrator I think is a very noble mission and we kind of walked through that. But another mission can be to be a better storyteller than AI, and you have to be that because more and more of the work is going to get eaten up on a low performance low budget level, which is, for the most part, entry-level work for lack of a better term for a lot of people who are entering the voiceover industry. So that means you need to make sure that you have quality performance training storytelling training, on-camera theater, opera, improv, stand-up comedy. Get that training to complement Aang Ganguzza's e-learning training and all the other wonderful coaches out there so you can hit the ground running and already be relevant and already be more of an effective performer than AI.  20:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) And you know what else, tom, worst case scenario and I don't want to like worst case scenario for next year, but worst case scenario there is no voiceover industry anymore. Right, if you've gained all these skills, right, building a business Hello, building a business right. Understanding how to have a product, market it and sell it right, you have a business. And also performance wise right, as an actor. Gosh, these performance skills can be put into so many everyday opportunities for work. If, for whatever reason Now I'm not going to say the voice industry is going to fall out, but I think as business people, we have to always be prepared, right. So those skills that you develop right in becoming the best actor that you can be, are going to help you down the road for anything that you do, if you're presenting, if you are trying to sell yourself in an interview, I mean, all of these things really are beneficial, I think, to your personal and professional growth and development. So it's not a waste of investment ever.  21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't think it's funny because, as you were saying that, I thought of two professions. There are people who train lawyers to speak in court. That requires an acting coach of some sort. And there's another voice actor I know who trains actors to be professional patients at medical schools so they can exhibit certain symptoms, so the medical students can diagnose their ailments.  21:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So this is not about exit strategies for when?  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) AI eats voiceover. But Anne's point is very sound.  22:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, no, it's just investment, yeah.  22:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, investing in yourself. Here's another thing that I'm starting to notice. Yeah, search engine results. If you're using Google or Bing or Yahoo, whatever, I've noticed that, at least with the voiceover-related searches, which is most of what I do for various reasons, ai companies are starting to show up more in the sponsored results.  22:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) Have you noticed this, anne. Well, I know that the AI answer is always coming up first, and so I don't know if I've noticed AI companies specifically advertising their services. But AI answers and responses.  22:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, this is what I'm saying. Absolutely, it's both, because, like I use a Chrome browser.  22:44 I tend to use Google the most often and I'll get that AI answer before I get other answers, but it'll be the AI answer. It'll be these AI-sponsored companies, as, pertaining to voiceover and then all the normal Google results, I'm wondering that a lot of these AI companies have been recruiting and contracting with voice actors like us, and now that they've gotten enough of a voice roster of human voices that they're cloning speech to speech or text to speech, and they've gotten all their software ducks in a row and they've gotten all their marketing ducks in a row, that they may be going for it possibly this year. And I say that, bosses, to light a fire under your butts. It's time to stop being professional students. It's time to get out there and start working. Keep getting your coaching with Ann, keep producing your demos, keep developing your skills, but get off the fence. Get on top of it.  23:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) So you can go and advertise your product. All right, so we've got step one. Right is how do you identify right, your, why?  23:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) right.  23:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Understanding, I would say, educating the industry and what it is that you identify with. And if you want to move into or add additional genres or whatever you want to do for your business, to really investigate, educate yourself on that. And now we kind of have the goal that we're setting and then we're working backwards right, we're like reverse engineering the goal. So what will it take to achieve that goal? What other tips do you have, tom? We're writing this down, I assume, because that's what I tell people. It always helps to write down.  24:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I certainly hope our bosses are writing this down.  24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) I don't know if I have much writing skills anymore, but you know I do have paper and pen and there's lots of great planners out there.  24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I will give some quick tips that I usually talk to my students about, now that we're talking about identity, which also is a form of how do you define success? So that's a part of it. How do you identify? Figuring out which genres, like we said, you want to identify as an e-learning narrator in 2025. But then the third one is what are the portals? Your bosses have heard me talk about this before the three portals of voiceover that connect voice actors to voiceover casting opportunities, which are representation, online casting sites, self-marketing strategies. So, for example, if you want to identify as an e-learning narrator in 2025, most agents don't cast e-learning.  25:04 - Tom Dheere (Host) Correct.  25:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which means you don't need to seek representation in 2025, most agents don't cast e-learning Correct, which means you don't need to seek representation in 2025. However, there are tons of casting sites that have lots of e-learning opportunities and, of course, you can engage in direct and indirect marketing strategies to build lists of potential clients, cold email them more follow-up emails to stay top of mind, so you can see how. Now you can kind of plot it out into I need to be this, why do I want to be this, how am I going to do this and who am I going to connect with to get the casting opportunities that I want?  25:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) And, by the way, part of that direct marketing where you're doing the cold emailing and generating the lists and stuff that Tom helps you to do as well the VO Boss brand has a product for direct marketing as well that could be of interest. That will also help you with all different genres e-learning, corporate and that is using a vetted list that exists and you can find out more obviously at vobosscom and set up an appointment to talk to me about that as well if you're interested. That's another valid marketing. In addition to the marketing that Tom talks to you about, I think you need everything you can get. To be quite honest, get yourself out there, I agree.  26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree.  26:12 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, tom, this has been a great conversation. So, bosses, we are manifesting for you and with you, the most successful 2025 ever for all of you. So make sure that you are taking stock in how your year has gone and let's go ahead and set those goals. And, guys, we're here for you. We want to hear feedback how is it going, how are your goals being set, and what do you guys want to do for 2025? So, tom, it's been a pleasure, as always. Thank you so much for all of your words of wisdom, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. All right, guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next year. Bye.  27:01 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Delve into year-end evaluations and developing a robust plan for next year's voiceover success. THE BOSSES share expert advice on setting clear objectives, utilizing effective marketing techniques, and maintaining enthusiasm in the unpredictable realm of freelance work. They give invaluable advice on maintaining passion, setting precise goals, and implementing effective marketing strategies. THE BOSSES also share strategies for balancing financial and time investments to align emotional satisfaction with professional objectives.  00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is.  00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, nne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic.  00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24.  00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. Boss. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24. 00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and of course, I am here with the one and only amazing Mr Tom Dheere.  01:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Hello Anne, hello bosses.  01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi Tom Dheere. Hi Tom, it's getting close to the end of the year, getting cold, getting ready for the holidays. At the end of the year, I always try to kind of step back and take a look at how did my year go, and I know that this is what you do. This is kind of like this is like your thing as the VO strategist. So I'd love to hear how you evaluate your year, because I want some tips actually, and I'm sure the bosses out there can always use some good end of year tips for evaluating how your business is going.  01:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And I'll be happy to share those. I do the feels. You know. There's the emotional part of it. Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied? The emotional part of it Just how did I feel about the year? Did I feel energized? Did I feel motivated? Did I feel satisfied with the art of it? Was I able to express myself in the ways that I wanted or needed to express myself as both a voiceover artist, but also as a human being, Because there's a psychological aspect to what we do, Everybody has a different reason for why they want to be a voice actor.  02:26 You know, like Tom Dheere loves to tell stories. I love to talk, I'm a big talker, I'm a fast talker, but I just love telling stories. I love going on journeys and guiding people through journeys. And it's funny because ever since I did my very first paid voiceover in 1996, I've always had the question you know, how'd I do as an artist? You know, and every year the answer is a little bit better because I learn a little bit more.  02:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you evaluated, first of all, the why. Right, because I think we always need to step back and say remember your why. Why are we doing it in the first place? Right, because if it gets to the point where it's stressing you out too much or you're I'm like my corporate job did that.  03:04 So I mean honestly like one of the reasons why I did this was to go into business for myself was because I found joy in running a business. I found joy in being creative and telling stories, such as yourself. And I love how you opened with that, because when I asked you, I was thinking, gosh, you're going to bring out your spreadsheet and you're going to be like all right, the business analyst is here and we're going to talk about how our year went, which I'm sure you're going to talk about anyways. But I love how you opened it with what is your why and how did you feel about it? Because I think you have to have the feels first right in order to want to continue and have the passion and the drive to keep moving forward.  03:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, if there's no feels, then why are you doing it? And if you're doing it just for a paycheck, voiceover is the worst way to try to make money. It's so hard.  03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's so hard. Wait, I feel like on the count of three, Tom, it's so hard.  03:59 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And it takes forever to find out if you can make money and how long it's going to take you to make money, that's going to feel like it validates you at all, and if you wanted to get to part-time or if you want it to be something that's going to cover all your expenses and help save for retirement. Like you know, if there's a hundred jobs out there, there's 99 out there that are better to make money and have a paycheck than this one. So if you are doing this, it better have the feels right Now.  04:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) why do you say that, though I do want to ask you why do you say that there's a hundred jobs better at making the money? Why do we say that and the two of us are like oh my God, it's hard, but give a little more background to that, to that. Why?  04:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'm talking in the context of something that gives you personal fulfillment. Now, in all fairness, if your passion is photography and you want to be a photographer, the principle is the same You're a freelancer. You have to figure out how to make your own work, how to market yourself, how to brand yourself, how to manage your finances. So the principles are all the same. So the self-employed things like voiceover or photography I want to be a singer, dancer, actor, model, musician, freelance graphic artist, I want to open my own yoga business or whatever. But for everything else banking, legal healthcare and healthcare and all of these things can be emotionally and psychologically rewarding, but those tend to be far more stable forms of income, you know. So my point is is that if you're going to get into something as difficult to pursue like photography or voiceover or being a musician, if it doesn't have the feels, then why are you doing it? You're just some kind of masochist who just likes to make your life as difficult as humanly possible, you know.  05:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I read an interesting blog about when you're in freelance and you're doing stuff like we're voice actors. I mean, it's all about certainty. Right, we've given up our certainty, because if we've worked for people in the corporate world like I did, I mean I was certain I was getting that paycheck every two weeks, I mean as long as I was employed. This. Now you've entered into the era, or into a vortex, of uncertainty, and that is, I think, where Tom and I are like it's hard, it's hard and yeah. So if it doesn't give you the feels, then yeah, you have to make a lot of sacrifices for that.  06:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Voiceover the vortex of uncertainty, the vortex of uncertainty.  06:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll tell you. Not that we don't love it. I mean, gosh, we've both been in this over 15 years, right, tim? So it's like, really, I mean I would not have stayed with it. I don't think I could ever work for someone again, unless it's like an in-out get paid for the job and we're done.  06:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh no, I can't work for anybody again.  06:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All my jobs? Yeah, I enjoy my, and the first step is to assess the feels right. So do we still have the same feeling about voiceover. Do we still find the same joy in it as we did when we started? Okay, all right, that's good, that's step number one. Then what, tom?  07:05 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well then, it's time to break that down, because everybody has dreams in voiceover and people like Ann Ganguza, who is a masterful genre coach and demo producer.  07:09 That's part of the journey of helping to make your dreams come true. Get quality training, get a demo that you can use as a marketing tool to get the casting opportunities that you want to help make your dreams come true. But I tell all my students, vague goals will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific goals will get you specific results. Yes, I also say that vague efforts will get you vague results. Specific efforts will get you specific results. So, when it comes to analyzing your business and reconciling the feels with what do I need to do and be and have to fulfill me? Narrate cartoons or video games or military history, audio books or college textbooks or whatever it is that blows your hair back to get the feels that you desire? You need to be able to put in the time and money and energy and effort on a business and marketing sense to be able to get the casting opportunities that you want so you can get the feels right.  08:00 Yes, absolutely, and this is why, I tell my students the more specific you are about what you want, the better of a chance you're going to have to get what you want, and your goals can change from year to year.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, is this the step that's next in terms of like figuring out goals that you want for the next year, or are we still in the assessment phase of how, this year, went.  08:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It directly flows into the goals that you want, because your goals also are going to change from year to year. So like, for example, this is 2024. One of my main voiceover goals was to book political voiceover work. I'm doing my research and taking classes and listening to experts in the area. I knew this was going to be a big opportunity to be a political voice actor for a lot of people.  08:46 My worry was that my sound, which is not the vote for this person and if you don't, the other one will eat your children. Like, I can't do that. My vocal folds are just not thick enough to be able to pull off that, or at least I just sound like I'm trying too hard. So it's like is there a place for me with my personality, my skill sets, the thickness of my vocal folds, to be able to get voiceover work? So I set a number for myself of how many political jobs I wanted to do this year and what are the things I need to do to be able to achieve those goals. So training yes, check. Little JMC, little Brandon Perry Okay, check. Demo yes, got the spots. Also added and embellished the demo with previous political work that I'd done in 2022 and 2023, because that's when I decided I wanted to give this a shot. And then marketing acumen Get representation that specializes in booking political voiceover work, going on casting sites and keeping an eye out for political work, as well as optimizing my profile to feed the algorithms to get political voiceover work. And use direct marketing strategies to be able to develop relationships with production companies that specialize in political work and develop relationships with them and get work.  10:05 And I did all three of those things and, to a greater or lesser extent, it worked in all three of those ways. So I did hit the number of political spots that I wanted to book this year. How do I know that? Well, I can count, but how does one keep track of this stuff? So I use my cash flow sheet, which is a free download at vo strategistcom, and it tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny that goes out of my voiceover business.  10:34 So obviously I track all of the voiceover work that I did, what kind of genre it was, how much money I made, who did I work with, how I got the booking this is where being able to look back on your year and figuring out how you did, because having the feels, like I said, is critical. It's the most important thing. But you need to find out how much money did you spend this year? Where did you put your money Training, demo production, marketing, other things? Where did you put your time and energy? Cold calling versus auditioning, versus blogging, versus social media, versus workshops, versus conferences, versus local events versus national events? And how did all of that stuff pan out? What efforts did you put into 2024 that turned into what you want, which is the voiceover bookings, to get you the feels, to get that fulfillment of yes, I am realizing myself as a voice actor.  11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that free downloadable has all of those aspects on there, like social media, like this is how you got the job social, oh wow, that's fabulous.  11:38 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, so I'll talk everybody through. It is that the first column just has a little code. It's VO for voiceover, VOS for VO strategist. Because I track all my coaching stuff on there too, and then it's either the expense like you know, paperclips or whatever I bought, or a class that I took, or whatever that I attended, or whatever the voiceover is, and then I so I track what the voiceover is Do you buy paperclips, Tom?  12:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I haven't bought paperclips in years.  12:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I have so many paperclips from you know my analog days that I'll never need to buy another paperclip again, so maybe that wasn't the best example.  12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know, no, but I love it. I just was thinking about it. God, do we use paperclips anymore? Anyway, sorry.  12:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Barely, barely. I barely use paperclips. I use my stapler all the time, but I don't use my paperclip anymore.  12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I do too. I still use my stapler.  12:23 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah.  12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, Staples.  12:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Anyway, at Staples, yes, one of my favorite places. It's like Disneyland for me that and the container store, if you've ever been to a container store.  12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yes, I love the container store.  12:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Love those.  12:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's one not far from me Stupidly expensive containers, but boy do I love them. But boy do I love them. They're worth every penny.  12:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I just love walking around in there. They are, it's like Willy Wonka Good stuff Anyway. Oh, my mileage. I tracked my tolls, you know, because I drove from Manhattan to Virginia, specifically, and back. I tracked all the tolls in and out of the Lincoln Tunnel across the Delaware Bridge.  13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I tell you, please Can?  13:05 I tell you, I tracked my $6 butter that I bought from the bar so that I could put it on my Royal Cousin bagel Because I'm a girl who loves butter on her bagels. And so it was like late at night and I went to the bar and I said can I buy some butter? And he's like butter. And I said, well, I have a bagel. I said, have you ever had a bagel from New Jersey? And he's like okay, and the first he comes back with two or three. Like I'm like no, no, no, no, that's not going to work for me.  13:35 He's just two or three little pats of that container, like I need like two or three per like square inch of a bagel for that. And ultimately he says I'm going to have to charge you and I said, okay, sure, so how much is that going to cost me? He goes and I'm like I thought about it it was late at night and I really wanted that bagel and I said, all right, put it on my tab. So that's been tracked.  13:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Just wanted to clear the air on that. Just wanted to clear the air of that $6 butter. It's a tax deduction because it's a food expense at a professional event.  14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, roy. Thank you, roy for my bagel.  14:10 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I allowed myself to eat a bagel. This time. I had half a pumpernickel myself when I was down there I ate an entire bagel.  14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I might have eaten one and a half, tom, because you know.  14:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I gotta have a lot of butter. Yeah well, I understand you had to make it worth the $6 that you put out.  14:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Uncle.  14:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Roy. Thank you, roy. I track all the traveling expenses and obviously, every meal, I amount of money that I made. I enter the invoice that I generated for every voiceover that I did, the form of payment check, direct deposit, paypal, credit card, wise, formerly known as TransferWise. Oh, I also currency, because I get a lot of European clients, so I get paid in euros as well as dollars and British pounds.  14:51 But this is how to look at your voiceover business marketing-wise is that I have a section which I either type in AB for audition booking or DB for direct booking, because I like to know did I get this through a one-to-one audition I auditioned once I booked one gig or is it a regular client or a legacy client that just said oh Tom, here's another explainer video and you don't have to do an audition? So this year, 2024, my direct bookings were roughly 80% of my voiceover work and the audition one-to-one auditions were roughly 20% of my voiceover work. And the question is you get these numbers, but what do they mean? What that means for me, tom Dheere, is that I have legacy clients dating back to 1997 that I don't audition for anymore. So that's clearly an accumulation of building regular clients over an extremely long period of time.  15:45 And that's great, but I also need to know how relevant I am in the voiceover industry, because if you book an audition this year. That means that your voice, your sound, your performance is in demand and you're keeping up with casting trends.  15:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love that and 20% is pretty good.  16:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) The other thing I do is I track the portal. How did I get this casting opportunity? The three portals in the voiceover industry are representation, online casting sites, self-marketing strategies. So, looking at my spreadsheet, so we're not quite at the end of the year yet, but we're pretty close. Right now it's only 8% of my work came through representation, 42% came through online casting. That's both free sites and pay-to-play sites. 26% came through direct marketing, 23% came through indirect marketing.  16:33 So what do those numbers mean? Well, it means a couple of things. One, you line up the genres of voiceover that you want to do with the portals that you need to use to get them. So, for example, agents don't cast audiobooks or explainers. So if I did a lot of audiobook work this year, that means I probably got it through ACX or Findaway, voices or Ahab or any of the other audiobook-centric casting sites. Or and this also happens a lot is that you develop direct relationships with audiobook production companies Hachette, podium Publishing, Oasis, a whole bunch of other places and so I can look and go oh okay, well, I got a lot of work through that too. So it's reconciling the genre of voiceover, the type of bookings that I got, with how I got them. So, for example, political so far has been my best genre. 23.9% of my voiceover revenue was political. Second best was e-learning. I do a ton of e-learning. I've had clients dating back to the 90s, so that makes sense.  17:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, does your spreadsheet calculate the percentage? Do you have like formulas built into that spreadsheet? That's awesome.  17:41 I do, I'm going to just ask, because I know there's a lot of bosses out there thinking this oh good Lord, it's a spreadsheet, and their eyes are already like rolling back in their heads because it's like overwhelming. Right, but tell me, how much time does it take for them to account for this? Because, if you think about it, this is nothing more than an expense report, really, and a little bit more right If you were to travel for your job, right? And so I feel like you always have to fill out an expense report in order to get paid for it. So this is kind of like your expense report slash income statement, inflow, outflow yeah, report for your business. And so how long should you expect to sit down at the end of a day, at the end of a week, and fill that out?  18:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) A couple minutes.  18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. So see that, guys. It's only a couple of minutes, yeah it's only a couple of minutes.  18:27 And so even as overwhelming, like Tom is coming up with all these numbers and these statistics from his own job and his own year, but yet he's only spent a few minutes a day jotting this stuff down, and I think it's just something like muscle memory. As much as you go and practice character development or practice your scripts, it is time invested that you have to put into your studio, and I just want to say that. I think I want to clarify, tom, that there's a number of people that get into this industry because they find joy in reading books or they find joy in creating characters. However, not everybody finds joy in the work that's required, right, to actually create and delve in deeper to that character or delve in deeper to growing a business. As much joy as these things bring you, there is work involved and I just want to acknowledge and, tom, we've said it before multiple times it's hard, right. I mean not every single aspect of your business is going to be like, I mean, until you're probably established right, eight hours in the booth doing joyful, light character work.  19:27 If that's what you want to do, there is the other work that it takes to get you to that place to feel joyful, as you were explaining right so you can derive the feels right.  19:38 And so this assessment, this end of your assessment, can give you such valuable insight into where you've gone and where you want to go in the future and how much time you're going to have to dedicate to different aspects of it. And so it's worth the couple of minutes and I say that it's worth a couple of minutes, like to my students that are in performance. I say it's worth a couple of minutes to do that copy analysis, to do that character development, to do that scene writing, because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because in the end, that's what's going to pay off and get you the gig. Because ultimately, you can go in and create characters all you want, but until you make a profit doing that right, that's just all you're doing is going in your studio and creating characters, and if it's something that needs to pay the bills, that may not happen. Until you put in a little more work, that may not be as pleasant.  20:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right. I mean I've been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years, and I have been developing this spreadsheet for 20 years and I have all sorts of little formulas and things in there, yeah.  20:34 - Intro (Announcement) You get the benefit and you can have it for free.  20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom, is this for free? Oh my God, for free. That's so awesome, right? You don't have to put the work in that Tom. You're getting the benefit of Tom. This is why we call him the VO strategist, right? And if you need help, there he is, tom. I'm sure people can come see you and work with you, that you can help streamline this so that it becomes something that isn't so tedious or isn't something that you're questioning Well, why am I not booking work, or why is this not happening in my business? So, if you need an accountability partner and I'll tell you what I'm the first person to say that in my business, I will invest in something that will keep me on track, something that will keep me going. I have a business coach I invest in on a monthly basis, an accountability partner. Tom is like one of the best out there and he's done all this work for you. Sorry, I'm just. I'm gushing right now, tom.  21:27 But, bosses that know me like I don't bullshit sorry, I just don't I. But bosses that know me like I don't—bullshit sorry, I just don't. I'm honest to probably a fault, but I would not talk about Tom, nor would I have Tom on my podcast so many times if I didn't believe in what he's doing and I didn't believe that you're going to gain such value. And again, this won't be an month for Peloton so that I can get on that bike and be inspired and motivated by the Peloton instructor.  21:57 This is kind of no different right. It's worth it to me because the benefits, right that I get health-wise and joy-wise from getting on the bike and exercising and being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And being inspired and motivated are very well worth the investment. And so, if this is something that you are not going to be disciplined enough to do, I believe that it's well worth your investment to really start seeing where your business has gone so that you can understand where to take it in the future right and guide it towards success. I stepped down from my podium.  22:29 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Thank you, that was very kind of you. Thank you for all that.  22:32 - Intro (Announcement) I have an accountability too. I stepped down from my podium, thank you.  22:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) That was very kind of you. Thank you for all that I have an accountability too. I'm being truthful, I appreciate that, and I have a business coach too, and I have people in my village that hold me accountable because I have my days of self-doubt and self-loathing and laziness and stuff, and I have people that keep me on track.  22:48 But I, with my mentorship program, you're basically paying for an accountability and a business coach all in one, because folks I know bosses this stuff is hard. It's challenging on a logistical, financial, emotional, spiritual, psychological level and I am here for you. But you're grownups. You need to be able to invest in yourself and be consistent, be kind to yourself when you need to be kind, be firm to yourself when you need to be firm, and I frankly, don't care if you don't like the grownup stuff. I don't care, because the voiceover industry doesn't care either. You want to do this for money. You want to make all your goofy voices in the booth and play all day. Great, you got to put in a ton of work, a ton of work, and it never gets any easier. It just turns into different kinds of hard.  23:38 Anne has been doing this for a long time. Right, she has her own challenges, internal and external, that are just different from the ones that bosses who are earlier in their journey have. Same thing with me. But if you really want to know who you are, what your business is, what your relationship to the voiceover industry is, beyond just your talent, and how great coaches like Ann can help you realize your talent. You need to hunker down and use my damn spreadsheet and analyze your business and take a hard look, hunker down, Hunker down and use the spreadsheet. I'm wearing flannel today for you podcasters, so I'm feeling very, very very rural, use the damn spreadsheet.  24:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my God, I feel like hunker down and Use the damn spreadsheet. Oh my God, I feel like hug her down and use the damn spreadsheet. See, like even Tom and I have fun with character development. So I mean honestly like it just makes sense.  24:26 And I'll be completely honest with you, we run our businesses for a purpose and we're doing this for a purpose, right? And I want to support the joy that I have in doing what I do and, yeah, there are days when, gosh, it's painful. But I also outsource some of this stuff as well to an accountant, and I've said that multiple times. I have an accountant who takes care of all my inflows and outflows and categorizations and that's a big help right then, and there she doesn't track my auditions or how I got the job, but I mean honestly, like that's just a couple of extra steps. Now there's another piece of software out there there's I think it's voice overview that does that as well. Voice overview with Danny States. Is that correct, right?  25:07 They have kind of a CRM and people will say, well, can I do this? Can I track this with my CRM? Yeah, you probably can, right? I mean, you won't have the benefit of the mentor, a monthly kind of meeting with Tom, and even if you're using voice overview, I don't think there's like a mentorship built into that. But you know, it depends on what level you need and what level you're requiring.  25:27 The thing that I like about your spreadsheet, tom, is that it's local, right. I'm very leery of a database that I'm necessarily putting confidential information in, like what I'm getting paid per job, unless I know that that system has like security that nobody's going to hack in and like steal my contacts. That goes for a CRM system too, right, I want to make sure that that is secured and that there's no possibility that somebody is going to go in and get financial data on me that maybe I didn't warrant anybody taking or seeing, or my client base. And so I like yours, because yours is local. You can just download it and you copy it to your computer and there it is and that's as secure as your computer is, and then you can meet with your mentor right On a monthly basis, weekly basis, however, that works and that, to me, I feel good about and I'm leery about CRM software anyway, just because a lot of CRM software doesn't do exactly what I want it to do and people are always asking me what CRM to use.  26:26 I use multiple CRMs depending on what I need. I'm not necessarily putting in financial data. I have my trust in my accountant and I have trust in the software that handles that accounting data and that is where that data goes. Everything else is my computer and my business partner. That's it. Nothing that's sitting out there on a server. And you know I'm not trying to disparage anybody who might be subscribing to those other services, but that's just my personal feeling. I don't know, tom, how you feel about that.  26:55 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, you got to work within your comfort level, your comfort zone.  26:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And like.  26:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Anne said you can download the spreadsheet. It's on your desktop and then you can back it up to your external hard drive and it never sees the internet and you're totally safe and you got to work within your comfort level of your CRM.  27:18 If you feel that you just need to have another spreadsheet backed up to your hard drive that has a breakdown of all of your contacts, that's all fine too, just as long as you're able to be able to interact with it effectively, so you know when it's time to market to which potential, current or past clients and how you do it, based on this work that you've done with them or the genres that they cast.  27:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't want bosses to misunderstand to say that I don't trust CRMs. I have CRMs and I put my data on them, but I would need to know the specifics of the CRM. You know if they're a major company, I mean if they're not securing their data. You know what I mean and the reason why I'm like this is because I used to work in technology. I used to be the person that needed to secure the data so that nobody could hack in and get it, because I worked for a school with under the age of 18 children, so I needed to make sure that that data was safe. So I'm particularly anal about it. That's where my thoughts come from, so I don't want to like disparage any product out there. Just this is the way I feel about it.  28:09 Anyway what a wonderful way to assess how your year went, because how do you know, like, where you're going if you don't know where you've been, kind of thing. Right. It's nice to be able to assess how your year went, because how do you know where you're going if you don't know where you've been? It's nice to be able to assess how your year went so that you can really assess that, make improvements for the following year, because I know for a fact that I want to grow my business every year after year after year and, like you said, even though we've been in this business for so long, it doesn't get any easier even for us. I still have to strategize.  28:36 How am I going to grow my business next year? How am I going to evolve and change with a shift in the industry? Or, if there's shifts in the industry, how am I changing? Am I getting different performance coaching? How am I marketing myself differently? How am I planning my business? And I can't tell those things unless I've really assessed how the year has gone. So, tom, I so appreciate and we'll be putting the link for that download on our show notes page. And, of course, tom Dheere is always available to chat with. I'm sure you've got like one of those free consults that people can sign up for if they're interested in finding out more.  29:12 We have that also in the show notes. And with that I will say bosses, I hope you had an amazing year. I had a great year compared to like everything that's been going on this year. It's been a crazy year, but you know what? It's been a positive year and I always like a positive year in my business. So, Tom, thank you so much for all of your wisdom and, as always, for being a real boss.  29:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, thanks as always for having me, Anne.  29:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, All right, Bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing year coming up. I hope you had an amazing year. Make sure you assess it using Tom Dheere's downloadable PDF, and we will see you next week. Awesome Bye, guys.  29:59 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

This episode is a deep dive into character acting with the esteemed Anna Garduño, a voiceover artist and coach. The BOSSES share their invaluable insights on mastering the art of engagement in voice acting. Anne and Anna emphasize the importance of enthusiasm and authenticity, and use examples from industry legends to discuss how to breathe life into every line by using script analysis and character creation. The BOSSES also dispel the myth that success in animation voice acting is about being a celebrity, emphasizing that unique and authentic acting choices are what leads to booking success. 00:02 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Hi Anne, this is Jen Keefe from Real Women's Work Podcast. I just wanted to come on and say thank you, thank you, thank you for the series you're doing on AI and voice. I've listened to VO Boss Podcast for a few years now and it's always been informative and helpful, and not only is this series not an exception to that, but it is just the cherry on top. It has been so comforting and helpful to learn about this industry and I just thank you for taking all of the time you must have taken to research and understand, to know what questions to ask so that we're all better informed. It is just awesome, awesome, awesome. I feel excited and confident going forward into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing. So, thank you, into the future in the VO industry, all because of this series that you're doing.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you, hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Ganguzza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audioos, character animation audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights.  01:31 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here today with very special guest. I'm so excited, Anna Garduno. Anna, thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you.  02:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I was completely thrilled when you asked me because the truth is it's been a bit of a goal, a little career goal. To please get me on with the boss.  02:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love it, oh my gosh. Well, bosses out there. For those of you that are not familiar with Anna, Anna is a boss. I was just saying this before you came out of the womb.  02:20 A boss, Hilarious you came out of the womb a boss, but recorded her first radio spot when you were 15 years old, shot your first TV job at 17, and currently teaches classes for VO, commercials, animation, promos, narrations and games, and has been nominated Best Voice Over Teacher two years in a row by the readers of Backstagecom. And I wore my Teach, love and Inspire shirt just for you today, Anna. I love it Again. I love the cougar aspect it's a little bit of that sexy?  02:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) come on, make it happen.  02:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) fabulous, you got to add that little bit of flair to it. But, gosh, anybody that knows me knows how much I love teaching. It's so important. It is who I think. I was born to be a teacher and I love talking to other teachers, such as yourself and bosses. So the combination teacher boss love it, absolutely love it. So thanks, first of all, for being here. I know you've got a busy schedule and you know what's interesting. Another fact that you wrote in your bio is that your students have booked over a million dollars in jobs and continue to thrive, which is such a great. I love that you have a number.  03:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I imagine that yours have too, and absolutely because I'm sure your students every week say hey, I booked this. Hey, I booked this.  03:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, I booked this. They do, thankfully. Yes, I'm grateful for that. And when?  03:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) you really think about it when you've been teaching for years, as you and I both have, because I started keeping track, really, and I was actually like, oh well, this is exciting and encouraging. I know you're such an encouraging teacher and there's so many cynics out there and I like to be encouraging. Come from joy, Come from possibility.  03:58 I believe in that too, you know it's so important and I think when people see that they go. Oh, because once in a while I hear people say does anyone really make money in voiceover? And I try not to laugh. Yeah, there's a reason, it's a global industry. So, yes, get that negative interject out of your head Absolutely and go forward.  04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what's so very interesting. Now I'm going to tell you. I was in Pilates this morning and there was a substitute that came in and she was teaching. I'm all about teaching, she was teaching, but she was teaching with a very like kind of monotone sort of and this, and then next we'll put our left toe over our right ear while simultaneously rotating our hip. The whole class, I mean, we're talking 45 minutes of no emotion, and I understand that she was trying to maybe put us in a Zen mode, right, but it was.  04:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Pilates Maybe sleepy, not meditation.  04:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And she was really good. Like technically she was really good. But she was shouting out all these instructions and I was listening so hard because her voice was so like even keel, with no like real I would call it elevating the teaching moments. So I was listening so hard, I was exhausted, mentally, okay, and physically. But at the very end, right after this, I had decided, like literally 10 minutes into it, I don't like this class, I don't like this teacher. She's not like. I don't feel an emotion, I don't feel encouragement, I don't feel anything. And when she was done she said oh my God, you guys did so good. And then I immediately loved her and I thought why. You know what I mean. So it really made me reflect on being a teacher for my students and also for the whole e-learning genre. And anybody knows I'm like a broken record, like you have to be everyone's favorite teacher.  05:36 You do, you just do Not just if you teach, but if you're doing e-learning, and so you've got to bring that emotion and that point of view, which I consider and let's have a discussion on this I consider that to be the frosting on the cake, that's the top element when you are there as an actor, right, that is what you're bringing to the copy, no matter what genre you're in.  05:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh, absolutely. And you bring up such an important point because this I know exactly what you mean. I've had teachers exercise teachers like that also, and I think one of the most challenging things in our industry right now, in whatever genre and I'm sure you've come across this, but correct me if I'm wrong where people say we want it natural, we want it real, yeah, yeah. And actors unfortunately misinterpret that and think, oh, passive, yes, oh, my god, that's casual, so it sounds like you have this passive teacher right now, nobody's passive in life.  06:24 We speak for a reason. We have a lot of musicality in our voice. Even if we're calm and relaxing, there's an intention behind it, even if it's the poppy reed.  06:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm just saying I'm just saying the poppy reed has dynamics to it. Oh my God, so much If you were to score that reed and really try to copy it.  06:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) She goes up, she goes down, she takes pauses. There's all of this musicality. It's not a sleep, and so you bring up a really good point. You have to be engaged with who you're talking to and then it's engaging and it brings people along. Voice work is communication, obviously, but I find too that people get so quiet Sometimes they're disconnected from their breath and not to be too focused about it. But your breath is literally like your life force. So I'm not saying yell, but be connected, and that's why my little company is called Voice Forward, like send your voice forward. You want to connect through the microphone, through whatever, to that other person. You don't want your energy to go here and hi.  07:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm halfway to you.  07:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And then you stop. You don't want that.  07:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting. I think about it as an older, more mature woman, about communication, right. I mean today everybody's texting right, and it's the communication is changing. But I also feel that for us as voice actors right, our voice is so, so important, and especially in this world of technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right, technology and digital everything and synthetic voices right I think it's more important than ever that our voices really keep that engagement, keep that human aspect of emotion and point of view, because that's what makes us interesting.  07:54 And, honestly, when I choose what I'm going to listen to on a day-to-day basis, honestly it has to be interesting to me and, I think, right for your listener. When you're being engaging and you're behind the mic reading a commercial whatever you're doing a commercial, e-learning corporate you have to connect with that listener to get their attention. Otherwise, I mean, it's always self-serving. Because why do I listen to somebody? Well, I listen to somebody because they've got something that I need right. Either they're educating me or they're entertaining me, right, and hopefully both at the same time. Those are the best teachers and that would be great. So I need to have a reason to listen. And so if you're coming at it from behind the mic where you're like, no, listen to my beautiful voice, you're not connecting.  08:38 And I think that today more than ever, we need to connect and we need to be the actor, and I know that you put in your notes that this is something that you wanted to discuss today about. How can we, as voice actors, get there? I have my methods. I stand on my soapbox all the time and say it's so important, more important than ever, to really bring that connection. Let's talk about how you have your students. How do you elevate your students to be able to do that?  09:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, sure, well, I have. There's a couple of things you know. We all come to this as actors. My training, my background, everything is an actor, particularly a theater actor.  09:11 I've been blessed to work with incredible teachers through the years, primarily with Larry Moss and Patsy Rodenberg, who's you know, the premier voice Shakespeare teacher in the world and Stella Adler, who's all about script analysis right For teaching or plays and theater and film, and that's what we do, right, we get a script and then how do we communicate best? And there's two basic things that she talks about that are very rudimentary, that I like to give my students a place to start, which is when you look at text, what is your point of view about people, places, objects and events that you're talking about? Right? So that's how you start, because so often people can do sort of like hi, I'm a generic, happy read sort of like this or I'm a very generic seductive read you know whatever it is.  09:53 So you don't want to be generic, right? So the easiest example is something like about the people I'm talking about. Let's say you have a thing where you say and it's the best ice cream from Ben and Jerry's. So many people do. And I say, well, pretend that Jerry's your absolute best friend and he's a bit of a goofball. So from Ben and Jerry, you know what?  10:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, you know Jerry.  10:11 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Just that. Or say you have a thing where you say so my husband came home with a new computer. Now, if the ad is about the right computer, right, then you're going to say husband, he did a great thing. Now say but the wrong, the anti-commercial, so my husband came home with a new computer.  10:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What is your point of view?  10:29 - Anna Garduno (Guest) about the husband and about the new computer. I mean, it's so basic. And then also, where you are is who you are is a big way to connect to a script too. And are you a CEO talking to another CEO about finance? Or are you that reassuring financial advisor for someone who's really nervous making their first investment?  10:48 Because you can have the exact same text but depending on who you're talking to and I'd like to think like what are you wearing? Really helps me personally. There's a million ways in, but I know if I'm playing a character on TV or something or movie that's like in a full-on business suit, I'm going to stand differently, I'm going to present differently.  11:06 My tone of voice is going to be different, whereas if I'm playing, like you know, the hippie chick from Laurel Canyon which I mentioned, who I am, it's going to be a whole different vibe, a whole different thing. So these are two very simple things that you can look at text right away and circle oh wait, here's the event, here's the object. Or in an animation example, I have a piece of copy I like to work on where someone's putting together a potion you know like to get revenge on somebody, and one of the lines is my potion will be ready and one of the lines is one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready. And so often people will go one more lizard leg and my potion will be ready, right? So I would say, you know, the people who wrote this copy, whatever it is, are often the people hiring you, right? Which wasn't always the case so often, right? So if you can make their text pop out just a little bit, because they could have said anything, they could have said one more batling, one more toad head, they could have said anything, but they said lizard leg.  11:57 And I always joke with my students. They got that approved. You know, disney approved lizard leg. They think they're going to get a bonus at the end of the year for coming up with lizard leg and plus, it's funny, with the two L's, you know lizard leg and the G. So instead of just saying one more lizard leg and my thing is ready, how about you take the number one and it's like you're thinking about it, right, and you go one more and you're looking at your stuff in your mind.  12:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Lizard leg. Lizard leg.  12:23 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly so. It's specifically a lizard leg. So it's really simple and it's what we do in life when we talk about you know, I got these new glasses that I love. I got these new glasses. You know what is your point of view, and so that's the basic thing that I do with people all the time how do you feel about what you're talking about? Not moody, how do you feel, but literally.  12:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. How do you feel it's so important? And how you feel changes and can evolve from the start of your sentence to the end of your sentence can absolutely evolve and it can evolve throughout the script. So I feel like what you're really talking about is, first of all, we need to assess the script, right. We need to assess what's the purpose. The script, right, we need to assess what's the purpose. Why are we saying these words? Right? Who are we saying them to? And again, changing who we're saying them to can make all the difference in the world.  13:11 And what I like to also say is that, like, especially in corporate like, no, you're not talking to your best friend. I need you to be engaging, but Sally could give a crap about SAP. Sally doesn't even know what SAP does or who they are or what they make, right, right? So don't talk to Sally because it's not relevant to Sally, right? And so that whole conversational talk to your best friend. Yes, they may put that in specs, but in reality, you need to talk to the person that's going to benefit from listening to the context of the script, right? So what's the purpose? Are you trying to sell a product? Are you trying to explain how it works, you know, and who is it that needs to listen to that?  13:47 And I had a discussion with La the other day, la Lapidez and we were talking about there's always stakes, right, there's always stakes in the script, and so you've got to know what those stakes are as an actor, right, I mean, we are actors. It is not enough to just read that. And I love how you did the melody in the head about the lizard One more lizard. And it's funny because in our head that's the melody we all hear and I swear we're all on the same wavelength, right. One more. Where does that come from? I don't know, because we read the words and we feel like, oh, initially this is where the emphasis has to go Right, but in the real world we're thinking about things. Well, every sentence is a new idea.  14:25 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Exactly Every sentence is a new idea, and when you're reading or anything like that, and so that's another thing I say is it's a new idea and also a good example of you bring up such a good point about talking to a friend Like what does that mean? Or conversational, what does that mean? And I always say to people going back to you have different kinds of conversations.  14:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Every day.  14:38 - Anna Garduno (Guest) We have conversations every day Exactly, and I tell my students, like, say, you get an audition for Lexus and Subaru the same day and the specs are going to be pretty similar, conversational, real, talking to a friend blah, blah, blah. But Lexus, as we know are usually kind of seductive and a little bit like this and all that. And so I'll say to one student what do you call that? Like, I always have my students come up with titles or names for different types of reads.  15:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, what's that?  15:02 - Anna Garduno (Guest) read yeah, and one of my students had the best thing ever. He said I call that my I've earned it guy. Is that great?  15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like it.  15:09 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, Now the I've earned it guy is right next door to what I like to call the. I know you want it, so it's the same volume, the same note of your voice right the same sound, but there's a slightly different intention. And then the Subaru, which is getting a little more rugged now, but Subaru, as you know, they always end with that love. It's what makes a Subaru.  15:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the family. Family You've got like dogs and kids, exactly, you know, on a picnic Soccer equipment.  15:37 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, sauger equipment, exactly so I always call that one like the kind of the save the planet mom, yeah, yeah. And what I tell students is those styles cross different brands. So the person who does the Subaru, the save the planet, mom is going to do Kashi, seven whole grains on a mission, and Patagonia and all that. You see they're both having conversations. So I know you know this, but I find to be able to come up with names for the different types is helpful.  16:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and characters You've given a character to it, which is great, rather than I want this sexy read or this seductive read. You've given it a character which I think gives it more definition.  16:13 And I think when you're analyzing, too many of us run into our studios and like, oh, I got it and they play to that melody in their head. Right, they play the melody in the head that probably 90% of everybody that is going in their studios doing the same darn thing. And we've all talked about what do casting directors want? They want to be able to hear something different than 200 of the same kind of melodies right, and so if you're coming up with a different melody or a different story, that's immediately oh cause for, yeah, I'm shortlisting.  16:44 I can tell you me as a casting director, every time I hear somebody that enters into a script and I can tell they've got a story, I'm like shortlist Because there's an actor, there's an actor, there's an actor.  16:53 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's about having that point where you bring up a really good point, too, about how do you make your reads stand out, and At that point you bring up a really good point too, about how do you make your reads stand out. And I'm very big on playing with pace, particularly in the first sentence.  17:02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Almost any first sentence you can play with pace, because often a sentence as you were saying, looking at the text has two ideas in it. So like to use an animation example. I have a piece of copy I love to work with. The first sentence is hey, you know what's the best thing, about being a jellyfish, so that's it right.  17:18 So everyone kind of usually does it that way, like enthusiastic surfer jellyfish. Now, if you just play with pace and you go, you know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish yeah, yeah, yeah, like all of a sudden he's mischievous, or the other way you do it fast.  17:34 You know what's the best thing about being a jellyfish. So already that first sentence is engaging yes, so little things like that. No, I wanted to ask you, anne, I found and you probably come across this too a couple months ago I started working with students on animation who were getting this spec which I thought was hilarious where they would say we want it like you're in a movie, but louder. And my poor students would be like what does that mean? We want in a movie? And I like, when casting people not you, of course, but some people you know don't act, just do it like you're in a movie.  18:06 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Okay.  18:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You're. You're acting in a movie, just so you know. So I was sitting there, I go. What do they mean? And I it was what we talked about earlier it means to not be passive, you're told do less, so they've been getting reads. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're told do less. So they've been getting reads, obviously, from people being very quiet, very hello. I have a mic right here.  18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes hi, yes hi.  18:22 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I'm going to read like this yeah, exactly, and it's like I'm in a movie and I don't have to do anything.  18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so boring, or you're in a movie theater where you have to be quiet.  18:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, exactly. So what they mean is Point of view, don't be passive. Yeah, so they were getting all these under, these de-energized voices, and of course, it's not engaging at all.  18:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you can be quiet and have a ton of energy. I mean, it's so much about the energy, but it really has nothing to do with volume, right? The energy of the Well, I use a term.  18:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I say to people you need more vocal vitality. I don't mean louder, I mean vocal vitality, and it's exactly what we're talking about. You need to have presence in that you're engaged with whoever you're talking to on the other side of that copy, because you're never just talking to yourself, ever Exactly.  19:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, let's talk storytelling. I mean, how important is storytelling? I mean I say it all the time, like I think exhaustively, yeah, but there's storytelling in every like, everything, everything everything right?  19:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yes, absolutely. And also, you're always in the middle of a conversation, too, even if it's e-learning. You've already been talking to somebody about something and now we just happen to pick up the conversation in the middle.  19:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I love that. I'm always telling people you don't start a script with once upon a time because, right, like cause, that means you just, oh, I thought of it and I'm going to go into a monologue, right, Right. And that means you're not going to engage.  19:41 If you're going to go in you're like that friend that doesn't shut up. You're like, hi, it's all about me, me, me, me, me, me, and I'm just going to talk and I'm not going to allow you to interact at all with me. And I didn't even hear what you said.  19:55 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It was tiring for the listener.  19:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly, and so you do have to start in the middle, and that's why I'm always saying that moment before right.  20:04 - Anna Garduno (Guest) It's so important, which is your basic acting thing. Right, like what happened before you came in the door, the scene, what happened, like how was the drive over?  20:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and I'm like no, no, no, no, no. I hear the events that are happening. Tell me what the other person said and then how you responded. And I don't want you to respond with the first word. I want you to respond with maybe something that's rolling into the first word of the script.  20:30 Yeah, give yourself a lead in, because then it doesn't sound like the note like once and we all start on that same pitch. Right, I broke it down technically into musical notes, but still, you don't need to start like, hi, I'm just starting to talk.  20:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Yeah, you know no, of course not, but see, the moment before is really important. I imagine you do this with your students too. One of the benefits of doing these auditions at home and working at home is you can try a lot of things, which is and you can also give yourself a lead in, sometimes so that you are literally starting in. You say absolutely.  21:04 Don't stress about that credit card. Let me look. Let me look at the credit card. Like I have a piece of copy that starts out Wait, did you book the bartender? $200 last week. Like that's a good sentence, actually, but how much better is it if you imagine that your friend's upset crying. They're freaking out, Exactly. Listen, let me see you grab it. You go, okay, let me look at this for a minute. Wait, did you? $200? Which really means like, how drunk were you, Dear God?  21:30 - Jen Keefe (Ad) what was that about?  21:32 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it's just taking that extra moment to put yourself in this situation Absolutely. And then, because you do it at home, you can do that lead in and cut it out. And that's one of the benefits, I think, of doing these auditions at home Because, as you know, in the in-person auditions which are starting up again thank God a little bit you usually get one shot and you can't do that lead in ahead of time.  21:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, exactly so. We've talked about the moment before, which, again, I think is so important. We've talked about storytelling. What other things would you say are important for a voice actor to know today in order to get noticed and stand out?  22:06 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Okay, well, this is such a basic thing. It's going to sound so silly, but it's very important to do some homework. We'll just talk right now about two areas, about commercial and animation, but this is true for everything. Actually, listen to what is actually on the air to hear what the styles are, what the tones are and everything. I have students and I'm sure you do too Some, you know, women students who've gone off and raised children and they're coming back 20 years later, right, and everything is like it's in the eighties or the nineties. It's so amped up. I'm like, okay, have you actually heard a commercial? And I'm shocked at how people say, well, no, I stream.  22:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't watch TV. Yeah, I don't watch TV. What?  22:46 - Anna Garduno (Guest) What does it matter with you? And what's so nice is you can that's research, yes, and also watch some different animation too, because, as we know, that natural voice, right, which is sort of the BoJack Horseman model, and then there's, you know, slightly more character-y things like in Spongebob, and then there's super cartoony, right. I am shocked at how many people do not actually pay attention to cartoons and they'll say, well, there's so many. How do I start? I go okay, watch movie trailers.  23:12 Watch the movie trailer, for inside out it's three minutes. There's five women and five men. Watch that and take notes. Don't just watch it passively. Write down what are the archetypes, what are the things, and then you put a check mark. So I'm very surprised at how people don't do their research. And I also tell my students it doesn't take long. If you spend half an hour a week listening to commercials in a very specific way and half an hour a week to different animation, listen to 10 minutes of three different shows and take notes on them, you do that for a month solid. Oh my God.  23:43 You have such a better foundation than everybody else. Oh my gosh, it's a very basic thing It'd be hard to audition for a play if you'd never seen a play Right. It would be hard to audition for an hour-long TV show if you hadn't watched hour-long TV in 20 years. You had no idea what those shows are like, because they're different than what they used to be.  24:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And before you run into audition for no Matter what, can you take five to ten minutes to just look up the brand yes and look and see what's their website look? Like what is the product that you're talking about actually do. Do you know the product? Are you familiar with it? What is their demographic? Who are they trying to sell to? I mean, there's so much backstory.  24:22 Again, it's almost like you're doing character study right, but you're doing it about the brand because the brand is looking for a voice. Even if there are casting specs, right, you can always go to a brand and find out, like, who are they selling to and how are they trying to do that by just literally a Google search. Absolutely, and I don't see why people don't take the time to do that. I mean it could take literally five to ten minutes before you rush in and everybody's like I've got to get the audition in. I've got to get the audition in, but do the homework first. Spend five or ten minutes. I don't think that you're going to miss the timing. I mean, I know people are like I've got to get it in first.  24:52 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Also, it's going to be much more efficient. Right, you take five, ten minutes, so like, oh, what is this new? Obviously, I don't know anything about tech stuff. So what is this new tech thing about? I need to find out what it is, and then you can do almost anything in three to four. Takes Almost you know after that.  25:06 So it's not going to take you that long. But I think one of the things I recommend my students do is so that you're not always in a rush right, trying to do the audition and get all this stuff in is set aside a specific time, wednesday morning from 10 to 1030. I'm going to look at ispottv and I'm going to watch 10 car ads in a row and I'm going to write down the differences between them. So if you just set a specific time, then it's part of your ongoing kind of homework and then when you get that audition for Lexus or Jeep you've already seen it and you know what it is.  25:40 And you're like oh, or you can say oh, this is like the absolute vodka ad I just watched. Okay, and that's what that is. So you're not playing catch up. Yeah, and it's the only area of acting I've ever come across and where you can get better at it really fast, because if you have a good ear, you can hear, like students where I've done this myself right, I think I'm sounding very sexy, yeah yeah, and I just sound sad, sad and depressed.  26:07 I'm like, okay, that's bad. Or I'm trying to be enthusiastic and I sound crazy, like I've had 15 cups of coffee, so you can hear it and you can adjust it immediately and that's so satisfying. I mean, I love to do dialects, as I know you do, and you know dialects takes years to really be super great at them. And this is another area about the voiceover world is you can move forward very quickly if you are just consistent, consistent with your study consistent with your class?  26:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely.  26:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Consistent instead of stopping and starting all the time.  26:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that and I try to tell my students you know, look, it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. And I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day because I give homework right. Yeah, and I say it's better for you to do one or two scripts a day, then wait until the night before and then do all the scripts at the same time, because then you're in the same performance mode, right.  26:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) You're just like, oh God, I've got to get my homework done.  27:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to get my homework done and so I'm going to listen to you. And so one of the reasons why I give homework is to hear, for me I'm vocally branding my students as well, so that we're prepping for the demo. Right, I want to hear them talking about Toyota or I want to hear them talking about Subaru or some other brand and I want to say, okay, I hear that, you know, and for me it's just a creative thing where I'm like, yes, I can hear that she sounds great with that brand, and so now we're going to focus on a spot on our demo for that brand. And so I give lots of homework because, number one, you should be able to practice what we're doing in between our sessions. Otherwise, like you want me to just live direct you once a week, that just, I mean, I don't feel that you're going to progress quickly.  27:45 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, what you're talking about, anne, is giving them the structure and the tools to become their own best director. Exactly that's what you're talking about, and that is a gift to give to students.  27:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you for calling homework being a gift. I love that. Oh, it is a gift. Yeah, I love that, and also I always say to people it's optional okay. I don't want to stress you out, yeah me too.  28:03 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I don't want to stress you out, but you're giving them. It was a new student, they go. Well, I just need to be. You know, if I have a director or a cast member, they tell me what to do. And I said to them okay, well, what might they say? And she said, well, they would tell me to be more conversational. I said, okay, and then what would you do? Blank face, yeah, and everyone's different. Like for me to be more conversational. In general, I have to slow down and I have to bring my voice down just a little bit.  28:31 Other people have to go faster.  28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Typically people pitch up when they're reading. That's just a, I think, human nature kind of thing, but you're right. And then sometimes they just go fast through everything or they go too slow through everything and then they sound too consistent. Consistency is like. I think I can't be stagnant in my business. That's the death of my business, and I think consistency might be the death of a voice actor. Because you can't be consistent in any sound right, because then it sounds robotic, it sounds with no point of view, there's no right, it's rhythm, and point of view is everything.  29:05 - Anna Garduno (Guest) I think Point of view drives the rhythm and sometimes the rhythm is like there's one style that sort of is kind of the opposite of all we're talking about a little bit is I call it a cello read Is that Eternity by Calvin Klein?  29:16 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Right when they just say do less, do less, do less.  29:18 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Right, hi, yes Hi, I'm not going up or down, but that's its own rhythm.  29:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's why I call it a cello.  29:24 - Anna Garduno (Guest) So if somebody plays one note on a cell, that's what it is. Yeah, it's like that. So even that is a very specific point of view.  29:32 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Yeah, absolutely.  29:35 - Anna Garduno (Guest) And it makes it dynamic because you're right, if you're just consistent all the way through the same way, it's so boring, yeah, you just stop. It loses any kind of dynamic.  29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It loses point of view too Correct, it really does.  29:44 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Oh, absolutely yeah.  29:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's interesting how musical it can be and then yet I don't want my students to approach it necessarily musically. I want them to approach it like an actor, because if you can do that, then ultimately things just fall into place. When you're responding to something, you're acting is reacting. When you're reacting right and you're reacting with the lines in the script, it falls together naturally. It really does.  30:08 And so the rhythm and the melody just fall together, and the emphasis on the words. It just falls together Like it's an easy thing for me to say. However, somehow, when people get words in front of their face, yes, because I was taught to read aloud, you know, in grade school, and I was like yes, me, I love to read, I'm a good reader, and let me hello, I'm going to read my text now, and so you have no time to put a point of view on when you're just reading from left to right, you don't know what the story is. There's no history there, there's no. Who are you talking to? Well, I'm just reading to the air, right?  30:40 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, I think you bring up also a really good point too. The approach isn't after the voice will follow the musicality, all that will follow. And something that's a particular challenge is since when we're reading or working, a lot of times we have headphones, so we're hearing ourselves while we're talking and there's a big temptation to be the director, the producer, all at once while you're literally saying your words absolutely you have to not do that.  31:02 So I'm a big advocate just put one headphone on, because you don't ever hear what you actually sound like through your head or your headphones. It's close because you're listening through the speaker of your head, right? So that's that's. The other thing, too, is I tell students don't judge your read like. Listen to it back first before you start making adjustments, or you stop in the middle or you change it or something.  31:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's good, I like that. Wait until you're done. I have the advice, which is interesting I get the one ear on, one ear off. For some people yeah, for some people, because for me, when I was initially starting, I had a lot of like noises coming out and I was evaluating my booth and so I couldn't tell if there was noise and also being directed right. So when you're directed, you kind of have to have your headphones on.  31:42 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Oh no, absolutely Right, You've got to be able to hear the direction.  31:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I always say your headphones are amplifying your sound, yes, and so if you get used to not listening to your sound and you're into the storytelling, it won't matter if you have headphones on or not. But that's a hard thing for people to do sometimes, because I know when I first started hi, oh, I love this. It's amplifying my voice, you know that kind of thing and it just gets to be a little egocentrical there for a minute. But I don't think any voice acting really should be egocentrical at all. It's something you are gifting right to the person who is listening to you and that is a gift you give to them. It's not about you listening to yourself.  32:20 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Well, even though you're just doing one side of the conversation. You're in fact interacting. Yeah, you are always interacting, and that's when they say talking to a friend. That's what they're trying to say is you're talking about this paper towel is going to soak up that spilled wine. Because you just came to your friend and said, oh my God, I spilled red wine all over my couch, I don't know what to do. You say, oh well, actually this thing is going to help you. You're interacting. Right, it's not about you at all. And it is a challenge sometimes not to fall either, to fall in love with your own voice or to decide.  32:49 You hate everything about it which is also not helpful.  32:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's so true. So you have to not judge.  32:54 - Anna Garduno (Guest) You have to wait and listen back and then see do I sound like I'm engaging with someone? Because you're always talking, like you say, for a reason. You know, even in animation stuff. You know I was talking to someone the other day about BoJack Horseman because that's such a common spec.  33:10 You know they say we want to like bojack horsemen, not rugrats and things like that. And I had somebody once I think was at sad foundation, wasn't a regular student said, and they said, well, you know, will arnett, they just hired him because you know he's just will arnett all the time. And you know what I said. I said, okay, I see why you're saying that, but my guess is a lot of people would like to play bojack. I bet chris rock would have loved it, paul rudd would have loved it.  33:28 Paul Rudd would have loved it. Owen Wilson would have loved it. There's a lot of comedic Seth Rogen, there's a lot of guys, and Willa and I get it, not because of the sound of his voice, but because he created a character that was engaging. So don't self-sabotage by saying, oh, it's a star. That's all they do. Don't diminish their work and don't diminish your possibility to do work as good, absolutely.  33:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think that that's really interesting. Oh, I love that. I love that. Gosh, Anna, I could talk all day to you.  33:58 - Jen Keefe (Ad) Well, that's why we're going to get together and have cocktails and dinner.  34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There we go Well, there we go Well. I have to say thank you. So so much. Thank you so much and I know that it's been a pleasure having you on. Now you've got a special offer for boss listeners. I do Special offer.  34:12 - Anna Garduno (Guest) Talk to us about that a little bit so for boss listeners. You get 10% off any classes, 10% off any private coaching or things like that, and also 10% off any demos you may want to work on or refresh or anything like that. Just say that you're a fan of the boss lady. The queen herself Love it and I'm very happy to do that. And you can reach me through.  34:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My direct email is AnnaVoiceForward at gmailcom, and just say hey, heard you on the boss, and we'll put that link in the show notes as well to get to your website. And so thank you so much, anna, for being with us today, and I look forward to working with you more in the future. For sure I want to have you as a VO Peeps guest director too, so coming up, so I'll be sending you that schedule. Yay, I would love that. So perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, and so a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. See you next week, bye, thank you.  35:20 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

In our next episode. of the BOSS Money Talks series, the BOSSES talk about how to set and achieve financial goals like a pro by transforming daunting yearly objectives into achievable, bite-sized milestones. Anne and Danielle guide you through the process of reverse engineering your target income, allowing you to create efficient tracking systems for auditions, marketing, and follow-ups. This ultimately can help you to manage the unpredictable nature of freelance work with confidence. The BOSSES share personal stories and insights on analyzing past successes, pinpointing what truly works, and making informed adjustments to your approach, fostering a mindset of steady, systematic growth. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hello amazing bosses and voiceover talents out there. Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my Vio Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss com.  00:32 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza.  00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show Danielle Famble. Danielle, yay, hey, thanks for having me back. How are you? I'm so excited to talk money with you this morning.  01:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I'm good. I'm always up for a money conversation, so very happy to be here Cool.  01:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know why? Because I actually just started taking and you know I've taken these courses before. But you know I always love to take goal setting classes because even though you kind of know, like I've set goals before, I do it every year, I do it periodically. I think that it's important to just kind of get your motivation and inspiration going and I thought it would be a great time to talk about setting financial goals and how we can successfully reach them as entrepreneurs.  01:41 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I think that's really important because in business you always talk about goals like business goals, or the point of a business is to make a profit, and so financial goals are kind of tied into that. So it is good to be intentional about your goals, even if you don't hit that goal. Absolutely being able to track where your progress is is really important, so I love that you're doing that. It's something I try to do every year. I think it usually happens for most people around like the end of the year sort of a New Year's resolution, but doing it in the middle of the year is really pretty great. I love that.  02:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think one thing that I'm learning that is important is to set realistic goals. I mean, it's all well and good to want a million dollars, but I want to be able to set a realistic financial goal for myself and I think how important is that actual number, like I know you just said, if you don't make it? But what if we create a more realistic goal? And then, I don't know, maybe reverse engineer, is that a thing?  02:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Is that something that you do? Yeah, totally. I read this book, the 12 Week Year, a couple of months ago. It's a really good book and it really is about like breaking your year down into almost like quarters, really breaking them down into 12-week years themselves so that the goal doesn't take the length of time like a full year for example.  02:58 And then you're able to break it down further from those 12 weeks to individual weeks. So that is sort of reverse engineering your goals. So, for example, if your goal was to make, let's say, $10,000 in the 12 week time, then you can go and say, okay, well, what do I need to do incrementally to get myself there? Is it going to be marketing more? Is it going to be increasing the number of auditions that you do? Is it going to be figuring out which genre that you want to go into, because maybe a certain genre may get you to that 10,000 quicker? I think actually, reverse engineering your goal makes it so that the goal itself is not so big and all you're working toward they're little sprints. So you're working toward the next milestone in that bigger goal sphere.  03:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think there's something to be said for breaking it down into smaller parts, because I think number one of the fact that our business is so volatile, right, we don't know where our next job is coming from. And that is a completely different mindset and pathway to making money than maybe some people are used to if they come out of the corporate world. Right, because there's a set amount of money we're getting paid every so often. Now, all of a sudden, we've got to be everybody and everything and we have to go out, generate the leads, follow up on those leads, get the job, do the job and then charge the money and then collect the money. So there's all these steps and we don't necessarily know where the second job is coming or the next job is coming.  04:26 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah.  04:27 And I think also, you can think about creating systems, right. So a lot of the things that you just said are repeatable processes. So if you can create a system where it's I'm going to audition for X number of jobs, that's not guaranteeing that you will book all of those jobs, but it's sort of a numbers game, right? Sometimes, especially with commercials, for example, it's sort of a numbers game. So if you can increase the inputs, then the output may be more bookings. Perhaps. Same thing with like leads If you are sending out maybe a few more emails or phone calls, then that potentially could mean that you're going to possibly book more jobs.  05:07 So how can you create systems or templates for each individual section of that process that you're reverse engineering for your goal? So then you don't have to get stuck in the weeds when it's time to go to the next step. And the next step Did I follow up this person? Did I do this? Did I send out this contract? Did I sign this thing? Making sure that you have a template or a system for it really can help.  05:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that and I think that it's important to make sure that you're dedicating the time for those steps to happen, because it's all well and good when you're like I've got the job right and the money's coming in and that's something I can account for. But yet now there's all these unknowns in the equation, and especially when we're talking numbers like I like numbers to be concrete right, I like to say I've got this coming in, you know, I've got this going out. But then there's that uncertainty of like okay, I don't have that job yet, so I need to put that system in place in order to try to make the goal that I want to achieve. And again, I think it's important for bosses out there to again set realistic goals. But again, there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, I'm currently making X amount of dollars per month, or I like to look at it on a monthly basis as opposed to, I mean, yearly too.  06:19 I'm like, yes, it's great to have a six-figure, seven-figure, whatever income you're looking for, but then break that down into months and then those months back into weeks, because one week maybe I won't make any money, right? And I have to make sure that that doesn't necessarily stop me from trying to reach my goal or create a mental point where I'm just like, oh well, I can't do this right. I think goal setting a lot of what I'm learning, as well well as writing it down, putting it concrete on the paper here's what I want. And then you're talking about setting up the template and the steps to get there, going back and reviewing those steps and making sure that if you didn't achieve a step, that's okay, because maybe next week you can achieve that step even more so, so that you're not getting upset or depressed and then just giving up on that goal.  07:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I also really love what you said about like dedicating the time to it. One of the things that I implemented in my own life, in my own business, about a year or two ago and, admittedly, I've sort of slipped in it it's something this conversation is reminding me to go back and do is implementing office hours or implementing the time dedicated to make the system run.  07:25 So if it's implementing an hour every single day, or Monday, wednesday, friday, for example, to make sure that you've got your auditions, or to follow up with clients that have not paid, or to do whatever it is in your system that needs to be done. Really setting the time aside to actually do it will ensure that your system does actually work, because it If you kind of sometimes arbitrarily go through the process of trying to hit your financial goals then you may not actually be consistent in hitting those goals.  07:55 Another thing that, when you were talking about it, I was thinking about is, yes, thinking about things in a monthly 30-day window. I think that's great because it's that short sprint like we were talking about earlier.  08:06 One thing is, maybe consider a percentage Like maybe I want to increase my revenue by 1% or 2%, so you can actually check and see did I do that? Is there a way to say I did hit this goal or I didn't hit this goal? Because a lot of times with goals they can be vague, it feels good but you can't really check and see did I actually hit it or not?  08:27 That's the thing about numbers. Is it this number or no? You know if you hit it or not. That's the thing about numbers, is it this number or no.  08:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know if you hit it or you didn't. Right, right, it's very black and white. You're right, I love that checking and being accountable and that also has an effect again, and it's so funny because there's hardcore numbers, right, there's here's what I made last month, here's what I made the month before, and what did it take to get to those numbers? Going back and being accountable and seeing, was there a system that worked? And again, if something's not working or you're having a slow month, again I want to reiterate that manifestation of abundance and faith, right, faith that you can achieve the goal right. And so if you can kind of manifest and see that, have that vision, see it's written down and then see the systems that were put in place that help to make that work, when you maybe have a week where nothing happened or a couple of weeks and you start to doubt yourself, go back and take a look at those accomplishments.  09:21 Go look at what you've achieved and the systems you use to achieve them and see if maybe you didn't implement that in quite the same way or maybe there's a way to take what you did that was successful and increase it. Maybe I would say, reach out to that repeat client, right? Or go ahead and maybe increase if you did a hundred auditions and you're not really seeing anything, well, maybe. What type of auditions did you do? Were they all commercial auditions, were they corporate auditions, were they e-learning auditions and find out which one's booked. And then maybe, if you're like I seem to be booking a lot of e-learning lately, then maybe increase your percentage of e-learning auditions.  10:01 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and the only way to know everything, what you just said is to make sure that you're tracking.  10:06 If you're not tracking that information, the dollars are in the data and if you are not tracking your data, you may not be able to track your dollars as specifically, to be able to get to the next step, that next 1%, because if you increase your revenue by 1% every month over the course of the year, it's exponential growth of your business. And then you can go back and look and say, okay, look at what I did, how can I repeat those steps to get even greater returns the next year? Or to do that in a different genre that maybe you don't work in, because you know that what you did works. How can you take what you know and move it to a different genre?  10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said if you increase your revenue 1%, right every month, which gives you 12% over a course of a year. And I just want to bring that back to bosses by saying most jobs don't give a 12% increase like at all anymore. As a matter of my husband just got like an 8%, which was incredible. I mean that took years and I remember back in the day when I was working in education I got a 3% every year and that was great. So, 1%, bosses don't think, oh, that's nothing. And I can tell Danielle that you are a money girl because you know, oh, just 1% and that's realistic, right. And so that's something like oh, I want to increase my revenue 100% or 50% or even 20% is I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that you want to take a look at how can I like literally systematically increase that income by 1%, 2%, and that's incredible.  11:36 - Danielle Famble (Host) And then, year after year after year, the compounding of that incremental increase is really where, like, it'll make your eyes pop because it is amazing and it can be life changing.  11:47 - Intro (Announcement) Oh yeah. And so when you say like reverse engineering your goal.  11:51 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's really where it is. It's not in these big leaps and bounds. It's how can you grow? Just a little bit more, and a little bit more, and a little bit more. And then when you look back over time because this takes time when you look back over time you can say, oh, wow, like look what this did, look what I grew, look what we've made. It's really amazing. It's like any financial investment. It's really amazing.  12:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like any financial investment. It's funny because you know, back in the day when I did work for a company, I remember I invested some spare change that I had like $500 in a stock in the company that I worked for, and then I just didn't look at it.  12:24 I just let it sit there for about 20 years. And I'll tell you what over time, when you look at a stock, if it's a decent stock and it's not like a company that's in and out and out of business, a company that's been around for a long time, I mean that grew over time even though, like, one month it went way down, another month it went way up, and then it was like, and if you looked at those numbers and you got crazy about it, it would make you insane, and so I just left it alone. I said you know what that was? Money, that it's kind of like.  12:47 I feel like if I go to Vegas and I'm going to spend money on gambling which I'm not a big gambler, but I always say, well, that's my spare change, right, and then I just don't worry about it. When it's done, it's done. So I invested that money and then I didn't look at it until 20 years later, when I went to buy a house, and then all of a sudden I cashed in on it and well, over the years and of course I didn't like completely ignored it I did look at it like on a yearly basis, but it wasn't like every day. I was not looking at it and freaking out if I wasn't getting a return on my investment. And so I think maybe if you kind of look at your business like that right, step back from it and look a little more long term and you can't do that unless you've been tracking it right and see how you grow, like that tiny little growth spurt over time makes a humongous difference.  13:38 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely.  13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you how, like in terms of I know we talked about this a little bit in other podcast episodes so in terms of tracking this right, what's the best resource for tracking this? I mean, I know we talked about, like I use QuickBooks so I can do a profit and loss statement. I can generate any length of time. I could say give me a monthly profit and loss statement. What other things would you suggest to track? Because that's just the financial part of it. How are we tracking like marketing, how are we tracking those types of things?  14:09 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think that can be done in several different ways. When I first started my business, I was tracking everything in an Excel spreadsheet down to every job that I booked, the details about that job, how much I was paid, how much do I need to set aside for taxes, and keeping that set aside separated by month. That's one way to do it Currently. Now I have a Notion database where I actually will put in every single audition that I did and it turns into a pipeline. So it's. Did the audition turn into a booking? Did I get an avail check for that even though I didn't book it? I want to know the details about that. What were the specs in that audition? So it's like a whole sales funnel.  14:46 - Intro (Announcement) It's an entire sales funnel, I love that An entire sales funnel.  14:49 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's what I'm doing, that's amazing.  14:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm again sort of a nerd. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm right there with you.  14:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) That's wonderful, but I want to know everything about the jobs that are coming my way and then the jobs that turn into actual bookings, because there's information in that data for me and it's important for me to take a look and see. I even want to see maybe I auditioned for something a year ago and the rate was X.  15:13 - Intro (Announcement) What is it today?  15:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) I want to know what is the market overall doing? So there are ways to look at it, like that, crms that you can take a look at and put your data in.  15:23 However you do it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look at and put your data in. However you do, it, do it and that's where your data is and then have a way to go back and take a look and take the time to go back and look at the data and see comprehensively, maybe by quarter how did I do? At the end of the year how was this year and what did we learn and what can we do a little differently? I love that.  15:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I think tracking your goals not just here's what I want to make right but tracking your business and tracking the progress of your business will really help you to get a great view of your business over time, and so it will help you to make more educated decisions as well. Right? So not only are we setting financial goals and we're manifesting right, and we're having faith in the fact that we can achieve these goals right, and we're creating small little pieces, small little segments of those goals that are achievable right, and then we can look back on our success and be encouraged and gain confidence from that success. And again, when you do that, that can just exponentially grow your business and grow your success. And to me, you've got to take the time to track that. So how much time. For me sometimes it's like, oh God, I've been auditioning all day, I've been coaching all day, I've been doing this. I don't have time to track this. What is your method of tracking? Do you track on a day-to-day basis or weekly? Or what do you do?  16:40 - Danielle Famble (Host) I track, like I said, with the inputs in my sales funnel or my system. I do that every single day, really like inputting it as it's happening and how much time does that take?  16:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you know what I mean? Are you spending like 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour?  16:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Every input is maybe a minute or two, so it adds up to a few minutes a day, maybe an hour a day.  17:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day right, yeah, not even I day.  17:05 Wow, think of that boss. It's just not even an hour a day, right? Yeah, not even. I say that for my students too, who want to pursue this as a career is that you need to spend, you need to dedicate a certain amount of time per day on your business, and that tells your brain, it tells your body, it tells your being that you are serious about this business and you are manifesting along the way as you do that. And plus, I think it's a critical part of again that tracking system that helps us to understand where are we, where do we want to go and how are we going to achieve that? Absolutely, yeah, fantastic, wow, I love that.  17:33 So what sort of goals would you say for, let's say, a beginning talent? What sort of financial goals should they have? Because I know there's a lot of people that are like quick, they're like I want to make the money now, right, and I know, as a coach, sometimes that is something that just doesn't happen right away. I mean, they're not making thousands upon thousands of dollars right away, and I think that's where most people get the most discouraged right in the beginning of their career. So, in terms of financial goals, what would you say are realistic financial goals for new talent that are starting out.  18:06 - Danielle Famble (Host) I think the first thing that a new talent should take a look at is where are they currently at, to look realistically and then I think really like the percentage that maybe 1% or 2% maybe not per month but per quarter might be a really great target to hit. So where are you at currently and how can you do just a little bit better per quarter to get you to that 4% per year? And I would also take a look and see things outside of the returns. But what are you doing today? Is it that you need to coach with someone else? Do you need to invest in yourself and your business? Do you need to learn how to use your DAW a little bit better for editing your auditions? Those kinds of things can really help with your bottom line because once you have a little bit more skills in your business, then you're able to use those skills to generate income. But I think, looking at it from where you're currently at, then looking at maybe a one or 2% increase from where you currently are, is incredibly realistic. Yeah.  19:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think also, when you're starting out, you have to be realistic in terms of, like, financial success, what you consider to be financial success and what you're considering to be investment in growing the business, because there are lots of businesses that need to take that time to grow. They need to invest in their product, they need to invest in their marketing, they need to invest in their storefront, right, which? These are all things like what is your product? It's your voice, right? Well, that's your coaching. It's your demos. What is your storefront? That is your website, what is your marketing? All of these things. Have you taken a marketing course? Do you have a mail service? That kind of a thing.  19:49 So, what are you investing? And a lot of it might take more investing than you're getting back in the beginning, and longer time it takes, longer it does, it does. And so I feel as though your financial goals at this point need to be realistic thinking. I have some people saying, well, I want to make $5,000 a month and they're just getting out in voiceover, and I'm not saying that you can't do that, but I'm just saying that until you really start to grow and make those investments.  20:08 I think marketing is a big, big part of that, because you can be a new talent and you can be amazing, but if nobody knows that you exist, right, they can't pay you and so you can't meet those financial goals. And so you've got to really get out there in front of people, and that requires your marketing efforts either direct mails, creating content out there. The quality of your auditions is marketing Exactly, exactly the quality of your studio out there. So there's a lot of things that will go into this in order to help meet your financial goals. And the better you are, the more skilled you are right, the better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product. Then I think the more skilled you are right. The better your product is right, the better you're able to market that product, then I think, the more able you're going to be to meet those financial goals in the end.  20:51 Yeah, absolutely so, for, let's say, talent that have been out there for a while. Is it realistic, do you think, for them to think, oh okay, well, I made six figures last year, I'm going to make six figures this year, year, I'm going to make six figures this year, or I want to increase that by 12% this year. How realistic do you feel that is?  21:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh yeah, I think that's incredibly realistic. I think that really taking a look at where you currently are, or what happened last year versus what you're attempting to do this year, I think that's incredibly realistic and you can go back and you can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What of it worked? You can look at your systems and say, all right, this is what I did. What have it worked? What things do I need to improve? What maybe should I invest in my business to help get me to that 12% or more return? I think that's incredibly realistic. Also, it does mean that you need to look at the genres that you're working in, yeah, and the market the market that you're working in as well.  21:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so important. Yeah, don't leave out the fact that you could be. You know, I want to do animation or I want to do character work, whatever that is Right, and you can be an amazing character animation, you know, have a great demo, have a great product out there. However, you've got to figure out where's the market, right? Where's the market at this time? Are there trends in that market? Am I able to reach that market and how am I able to get in front of the eyeballs that can hire for that market and what are they willing to pay Like? That's the part where I think most people they forget. Oh, so now there's a money, right, there's a value put on that on the market. Not that you're not worth a million dollars.  22:23 However, there's a term for it, danielle, and I don't know if I know what it is, but there is a rate out there that is the going rate, right, it's a competitive rate for people that want voices for animation or people that need a commercial voice. There are rates all over the place. Of course, we always say go to the GVAA rate guide, right. But I mean, sometimes the market can't pay that rate, right. That particular client just can't pay it. They don't have the budget for it, and sometimes that's the truth, right? A lot of times we want to say, oh no, I can't do that job. I know what I'm worth and I can't do it for that rate and that's OK, that's your business decision.  22:58 But don't dismiss that sometimes clients literally don't have it in their budget to pay that value, and then that's a decision that you make, right? Whether you want to accept that, to do that maybe below your rate or not. And I'm not saying you should do that for everything. But there is a value. There is a value that the companies put on it and they will have budgets. I mean, people have budgets for a reason. So you have to be considerate of the company and not just be angry at the company if they can't meet your budget.  23:28 You know, I think a lot of times we tend to so quickly dismiss and say, well, they're not paying me what I'm worth, and so therefore and yeah, I say, if that's your decision, that gives you time to go find somebody who will pay you what you're worth. But sometimes understand that it is possible that the company doesn't have the budget at this moment Doesn't mean that they won't have the budget in the future, or that you can't work on that in the future. So yeah, just a thought Wow, good stuff, danielle, wow.  23:54 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, that's a really good discussion. I think that talking about goals is incredibly important, not just about the financial goals, but the inputs to your goals as well, because that can just be general business goals, life goals. Once you learn how to do this in one aspect of your life, you can really move it to other aspects of your life. Oh yeah absolutely, absolutely.  24:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Bosses Love this conversation. Danielle Can't wait for our next one. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network and make money like bosses like Danielle and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and go out there and let's set some financial goals and meet them. We will see you guys next week. Bye, bye.  24:38 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere reflect on their time at the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference (MAVO) and show listeners how to align your conference choices with professional objectives and comfort zones. The BOSSES talk about embracing the vibrant energy of smaller conferences, where meaningful connections and enriching learning experiences await. Anne and Tom share personal stories that capture the joy of stepping out of the studio and into creative spaces filled with camaraderie and collaboration. Whether you're new to the scene or a seasoned pro, this episode is filled with invaluable strategies to enhance your career and make every conference moment count. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, real Boss, Tom Dheere and myself have a very special deal for you guys. Tom, tell them what it is.  00:08 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) All right, anne. If you use the promo code BOSSVOSS that's B-O-S-S as in V-O-BOSS and V-O-S as in V-O-STRATEGIST, and the number 24, so that's BOSSVOS24, you get 10% off my 30-minute check-in, my one-hour strategy session and my one-hour diagnostic.  00:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you'll get 10% off all coaching packages and demos on the Anne Ganguzza website. So, guys, black Friday starts now and runs till the end of the year. So everybody, get yourselves on that site and get yourself a discount. BOSS, VOS, BOSS, VOS 24.  00:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) BOSS, VOS 24. BOSS. VOS, BOSS, VOS, 24. BOSS, VOS, 24. 00:47 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series with the one and only Tom Dheere. Tom Dheere, yay, hi, anne, tom, I get to see you like. I just saw you at MAVO, which was so wonderful. We have to just meet each other at conferences, I feel like there needs to be a change to that.  01:27 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You live in LA, I live in New York City, so you know we have some logistical challenges.  01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know, but I feel like we should be seeing each other more, because what a great time.  01:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well then, they need to produce more conferences so we can hang out more, right.  01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know. There might be some people that disagree with that, I'm not sure. Some people are saying that there's more conferences than are needed in this industry. But you know, I like people to have a choice.  01:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and different conferences meet different needs. Some of them are different sizes, like Mavo is very boutique, like under 100 people, as opposed to VO Atlanta, which is wonderful in its own way, but that has 1,000 people and that can freak out a lot of people. And then one voice is like somewhere in the middle with attendance and there's different focuses. Some have a bilingual track or a Spanish track, some have an audio book track and some have a children's track, like Mavo did. So you just got to find one that's right for you, based on your budget, your professional needs and just your social comfort level.  02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, let's do a recap about Mavo, then, because it was my first year at Mavo, oh, and I truly, truly enjoyed it. It was, it was my first year speaking at Mavo and I loved it. It was small, it was intimate, and she had a boatload of great speakers there, and I really felt as though she worked her tail off to make it a nice experience for everyone.  02:50 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I agree, this was my fourth 2018, 2020, 22, which was virtual, and then 2024 now. So, like most conference presenters, they like to have people come every other year so they can mix up the speakers and the content, and I always have a lovely time there. Val Kelly, who's the producer of the Mid-Atlantic Voice Over Conference MAVO for short always does a lovely job and, like you said, she puts together a fantastic group of speakers. Like, considering the size of the conference, it's like, quality-wise, a disproportionate quality. Like the quality of speakers, considering the size of the conference, it's just such really high-end.  03:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, Really high-end people. It was incredible high-end speakers, especially because you and I were there. Well, no, I'm sorry, I love it. I think her theme in the beginning was more character-based animation, because that's what she did, and she mentioned to me this is the first time she was going to have somebody coming in that was really talking about things other than character animation, and, of course, I did a general session on corporate, and then I did two mastery sessions which actually were oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration oversold, which I loved on e-learning, and the other one was on acting for narration, and I just loved the response of the attendees that were there to my classes, and so I had a great time while I was there, but I worked hard, and I will say, though, that the speakers that she had were amazing.  04:18 You were there, I mean, jessica Blue was there, everett Oliver was there I mean I'm just going on and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was there. Everett Oliver was there. I mean I'm just going on, and I met some people that I had never met before in person, which was great Casting directors, andy Ross. I mean, I just had such a good time meeting new people and now I've got new resources.  04:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I had a fantastic time too. What did I teach? I did a breakout session or I don't remember what the name of it was. The term, but it was make taxes less. Taxing had a great turnout, with people trying to figure out how to file their taxes. As a voice actor, that was fun.  04:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's important.  04:49 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is important. I'm noticing a slight uptick in people going to conferences and wanting to get a little bit more understanding of the business side of voiceover, which and considering that's what I do as the VO strategist obviously I'm thrilled that people are expressing more of an interest to complement all the great performance training that they want to get and that they know that they need. But I also did one on smaller voiceover market mastery how to, if you live in a suburban or rural area, how you can thrive both online and in person.  05:15 But the one that was extra interesting is and we talked about this before we started recording is that I was the moderator for the AI panel.  05:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  05:24 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) And you were in the audience and you participated I was. It was very, very interesting and we had the board of the National Association of Voice Actors, or NAVA, as the panelists president, vice president, director of operations and a member at large and the conversation was very interesting. What I thought was interesting is that I read the room at the beginning, if you remember, and I said who here doesn't know the first thing about AI as it pertains to voiceover? And not a single person raised their hand. Now, maybe they were shy and didn't want to admit they didn't know anything, but I think a lot of them are now that it's been a few years that the voiceover industry has just become aware at all that AI has been permeating the industry long before we understood what was going on. People are making a point to educate themselves, and you have been a huge contributor to that with your VO Boss series. When you interviewed, was it 30 or 35 companies At?  06:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) least At least 35 CEOs of companies, of AI companies Some are of companies that don't exist anymore and some that do. So, yeah, and that was back. I think I started two and a half years, maybe three years ago, doing that and talking about how do you create a voice, are you ethical, are you, you know, how are you utilizing the voices and how do you feel about voice actors and treating them fairly and giving them compensation for that voice? And so it was something that I really have been on a journey to do, to research and educate myself, because I think, I mean, we're both educators, tom, and it's so important for voice actors to educate themselves about the industry, about the business and how they can run their business to coexist with disruptive technologies like AI.  07:04 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, right Were you in the room when J Michael Collins did his presentation.  07:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I actually was finishing up a mastery session and he was talking about trends in commercial, I believe, or trends in performance, since the new administration or the upcoming administration change.  07:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, that's why I brought it up, because I sat in on that and took a page of notes. He did a fascinating history of how you can line up who's president of the United States with trends in commercials and tone and what affects us as casting specifications.  07:39 So he made a lot of interesting points about those who voted for the winner and what kind of reads are maybe called for, and those who did not vote for the winner of the election and the type of reads that are going to resonate with them for the next few years. So I bring this up, bosses, because this is part of the value that you get out of attending any voiceover conference, much less going to MAVO. It's education, it's networking, it's the opportunity to meet great coaches like Anne, or get to know a casting director or someone like that. But also industry trends what's going on in the industry right now and how you need to adjust or adapt your understanding of the voiceover industry and how you can adjust your business model to adapt to what may change in the coming years.  08:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) One thing that I like to think about in regards to trends is trends. You have to keep your eyes and ears open and assess what you feel is happening in the industry, as well as what your clients are saying. And so, while I would never say this is the trend in black and white, this is what it's going to be or this is what's calling for, and then say that's it, I'm only going to practice that trend. I say be the actor, because when you're the actor, you can be versatile and you can cover any trend and so just know which ones seem to be resonating along with culture and the current status and the current flow of advertising. But also be that actor. Take that coaching, training that allows you to be the actor that can be versatile, that can follow direction, no matter what they want, because there can be trends all over the place.  09:19 So, for example, after the Super Bowl last year, there was the Poppy read. Right, there was that read. I was not asked for that poppy read very often, even though that was spouted as the latest and greatest big trend. So, again, my customers had their own specific direction for what I do. Also, it depends on genre right, genres that you're working on, and I feel that if you are a well-versed actor, you're gonna be able to adjust yourself to any trend. However, it is important that we all educate ourselves on what's current and relevant out there, because you probably don't want to be out there doing that old announcer read, although that's one of the reads that could potentially come back, or it can be a read that one of your clients wants, and a lot of times we get the gig with one read and then they direct us to something completely different, and so keeping your ears out and eyes out for trends is great, but also that age old advice that sage, wise advice to just get your acting skills in order, I think is absolutely still relevant.  10:20 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Oh, 100, 100%. And this is why you want to have good coaches that can help guide you through the voiceover industry, teach you the basics of voiceover, that are the evergreen content, like breath control or microphone techniques, script interpretation, and then obviously layering that with the genre training, like what you do with your e-learning and your narration training. And this is where the advantage of going to a voiceover conference is, for both attendees and for speakers and presenters like you and me, is that we can have conversations with speakers, other coaches, other casting directors. What's going on, what trends are you noticing, how have you had to adjust your teaching or coaching style to adapt with what's going on in the industry and how we can prepare for what's going on next.  11:06 And if there's one thing I noticed is that, yes, you are technically J Michael Collins' competitor and he is technically Everett Oliver's competitor and he is technically Nancy Wolfson's competitor. But like the level of camaraderie and the very from what I've noticed over many years free-flowing exchange of information. Well, you know the old thing the rising tide lifts all boats. So we're all happy to exchange information, Like if I go to the same conference that a Mark Scott does or a Paul Schmidt does, and Paul Schmidt. He was hanging out at the bar for this conference. He wasn't an actual attendee.  11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He was there he was living in the.  11:41 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) he lives in the area, so he's like yeah, let me go hang out with my friends, and it was. It was awesome to see him.  11:45 There was a couple of people that just showed up and just like, hey, what's going on? A couple of people that just came to hang out. We all are in these little booths talking to ourselves all the time in a vacuum and we have to build characters and connect and engage, but just to be able to stop wearing sweatpants all day, get out of the booth and just go, just hang out and get dressed up.  12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love getting dressed up.  12:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, and look fabulous, fabulous every day, and I actually got the chance to wear a suit which I haven't done in so long.  12:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had costume changes, Tom. I had costume changes you know, I call them costume changes, but I love it.  12:31 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Like you're hosting an Oscar.  12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a few of them, which is pretty cool.  12:35 Yeah, Right, Okay, and now it's hand-wearing and a lot of it is just the energy, right, the energy at a conference and the energy especially at a smaller-sized conference too. The energy at, let's say, a larger conference can be overwhelming, right, it's great and it's exhilarating, but it can also be overwhelming and stressful For something for a much smaller venue. I really enjoyed the energy because it wasn't like we couldn't hear each other over the loud din of thousands of people. We were all a close group that kind of gathered in the restaurant slash bar area every night and ultimately had a great time talking to one another, and I absolutely love it. And we did fun, crazy things, Like I actually have a little video that will be coming out. We all had everybody say the same line and be the actors that they are, and so I literally recorded multiple people saying the same line with their drinks in hand and that should be a cute little video coming out in a few days. Everybody just had a blast. Whether you normally do that type of a thing, it was just nice to see the improv and the acting and the laughter and just so much fun hanging out after hours or after the classes are done, and typically when I'm at a conference.  13:51 I know that for myself I don't know, Tom, if this happens to you too the more conferences I'm presenting, I'm very, very hyper-focused on my presentations because I want to make sure I'm ready and I've got the energy to teach a three or four-hour class, which some of these ended up being, and so I'm not always socializing late in the late hours because I'm like well, I got to get up early, but I noticed that none of it was overwhelming for me, so I was able to hang out and really visit with people later on in the evenings. That I typically do at larger conferences. Just because I find that there's so much noise at the bigger conferences, I get a little more stressed out quicker and I'm like well, I got to go to bed now because I got to make sure I'm up and I can do my class in the morning. I don't know what did you feel about that, Tom?  14:35 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, I noticed the same thing because we were both at VO Atlanta this spring and, like I said, there's 1,000 attendees and probably what 50 or 60 speakers plus a couple of dozen staff. So it's an amazing, wonderful experience, but it can be a little overwhelming Canva presentations and making sure my outlines are just so and timing it a little bit to make sure I have time for Q&A and sidebars and stories and stuff like that.  15:05 So, I found myself staying. I was at the bar for a little while. I think I turned into a pumpkin around sometime between 10.30 and 11 o'clock at night, which I think is a yeah that was me.  15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a long time for me. Oh, really At home I'm usually in bed by nine, so I mean oh yeah, I'm like I'm a wimp.  15:22 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Back in the day. I'd be at the bar until two, three, four in the morning, but I just don't have the battery power for that anymore. Also, I'm hitting the gym in the morning, so like I was in the gym, Me too. Friday, saturday morning and Sunday morning I was in the gym at 7.30. Oh.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I missed you those. I missed you those times because I was prepping for a nine o'clock class.  15:43 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, yeah, I didn't have any nine o'clock classes this time, so I had a little time to be able to go down. I just did like a half hour on the treadmill just to kind of get my steps in and get my circulation going, have a nice breakfast and then get some tea and make my way down. But I was wondering, Anne I'm sure there's a lot of bosses here who have never been to a conference before what would you suggest as some like voiceover conference strategies for someone that's never been to one?  16:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, yes, for me I really like to get the most out of, and I'm like, probably sometimes the worst, I'm the worst offender because I'm so busy and I'm not looking at the schedule. But I would say look at the schedule, decide ahead of time, right, what classes look good for you, and and really kind of create your schedule before you get there. It's nice you can make last minute changes, you know, once you get there, depending on, like maybe somebody says, oh no, no, no, you really have to go see this talk or this presentation or I've seen this person before and they're really great and you might make changes then. But I think, really having a plan and of course, old school, I'm either a notepad to jot things down or I like to do notes on my phone a lot in order to get things from the presentation. I know that for me, because I've lost my talent to write, tom, I mean, I don't know like, do people like I can barely sign my name these days because I'm typing so much. So a lot of times what I'll do is I'll take a picture, like a screenshot, of the presenters or the screen, if they've got a display, and then I'll just jot down notes while I'm talking in my notes on my phone, or I'll just create right a note on my phone and I'll take pictures while I'm doing it as well. So now I've got the notes and I can take pictures and then I have that across all my platforms, and so that's kind of the way that I take notes for that and I also make sure nowadays to get people's contacts.  17:28 And, tom, I'm the old school. You probably saw my cards on the table because I purchased them for one other conference and I'm like you know what? I'm just going to leave them on the table. On the back of it I made sure that I had a QR code that basically, when you scan it, I'm right in your contacts in your phone. So it's got my name, yeah, it's got my name, my address. So it's no longer just like oh, it's a card that just has your email, your phone. It has a QR code that you can scan so that it automatically goes into contacts, and I find that that is super beneficial. Like all the contacts that I made, we basically just touched each other's phones or we called each other and then filled out information so that it went right into our contacts. Not so much exchanging cards these days, but I say always have some for backup. What about you?  18:11 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, for those of you who are listening to this, I just flashed my VO Strategist business card, which also has a QR code on the back. I also have I think it's hopbio, h-o-p-pbio, where you can kind of make a little mini type of website, and I have one for Tom Deere, voice actor, and I have one for VO Strategist. It's a QR code also, so people scan it and then they can see it's also linked, so it has all your contact information on there. You can even hyperlink your blog to it. So it's just kind of like everything that you are in like one little place. It's like one-stop shopping for marketing. As to note-taking, I have to let everybody know that Anne took a picture of some of my notes at a class at a workshop that she wanted to go to but she couldn't make it to, which is perfect.  18:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, I absolutely did, and I love it. I mean, it's now it's in my phone so I can refer to it at any time, which is great.  19:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I'll deal with your one of two things. I'll use Google Keep, which is a Google note-taking app. But what I've been doing more and more lately is that before I go to a conference and I pretty much know I mean I've got all my presentations, but then I look and see when I'm not presenting and what workshops I have time to attend and be a student of is that I'll set up in Google Drive. I'll set up a Google Doc and it'll just say, like 2014, mavo. So if you go into my Google Doc for those of you who have broken in you see I've got the year that I attend the conference and the name of the conference, so I can just see, in chronological order, every set of notes I've taken for every conference that I presented at or attended. So I'll often bring my tablet and I'll just be typing directly into the Google Drive doc that I had already set up. So when I get home it's already there. I don't have to do anything.  19:48 But I do take pictures of screenshots, like you do pictures of slides and what I'll often do is, I'll take a picture of the slide and then I will just copy and paste that picture into that Google Drive doc. So I don't have to transpose it either.  20:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that way, you've got your notes and your photos. Yeah, it's all together, so it's all together.  20:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) One bit of advice I will give our bosses who do attend a voiceover conference is find a note-taking buddy that looks like they're going to be presentations that you want to go to as like the primary ones you know, like if you want to go to all the ones about cartoons and video games.  20:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like you were my note-taking buddy, yeah. Yeah, be a note-taking buddy, you were my note-taking buddy for Jay Michael's presentation Right.  20:33 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Because you're just like click there, you go, so like, but based on what you want to do. If you have a friend who wants to focus on business and marketing and tech and you want to focus the performance ones, they go to all the other ones and you just take notes and you just swap, yeah.  20:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I'd like to really like give props to the business classes in the conferences, and I know because I used to teach business classes Sometimes I mean it used to be that they were the hard sell right.  20:56 And the funny thing is is I think what people need the most is business sometimes, because it's so easy to take performance after performance after performance classes. But your performance is wonderful in your studio by yourself. If you're not selling, if you don't have the business savvy, you don't have the marketing savvy and you're not selling yourself, well then nobody's going to see your beautiful performance. So I do want to give a big push for those of you that go to conferences, give yourself I mean I know you might hate business or you might hate marketing but do yourself a favor and sign up for a marketing session so that you can understand, like, how marketing has trends have changed or new ideas. I mean you could come out with one, just one new golden nugget for how to market yourself and that can make all the difference to get you seen or in front of a casting director, or in front of a talent agent, or in front of a new client and then, boom, it's been able to grow your business.  21:51 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well as the person who teaches all the business and marketing breakouts and workshops and mastery sessions at all of these voiceover conferences. Obviously, I have a vested interest and I want all of you to attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right attend my classes and take my content. But Anne is 100% right. There is and I've noticed it over the oh geez, 13 years or so that I've been attending and speaking at voiceover conferences is that they tend to be populated by a lot of professional students. They just keep taking performance class after performance class. They don't take any business and marketing class and they never pull the trigger. They never go for it.  22:26 Now I can't speak to why any one of them can't or won't pull the trigger. It may be financial they can't leave their day job. It may be psychological they just have certain emotional mental blocks that are preventing them from pulling the trigger. But I say this in almost everything that I speak at is that your talent will get you your first gig with a client. Your project management skills will get you the next gig with the same client. Project management is all the stuff you have to do between the moment that the email hits your inbox and the moment that the check clears. So if you're able to use your talent to get an audition and book it, if you don't know what to do when it's time to press the red button and I'm not talking on a performance level, I'm talking on a technical and a business level you're useless as a voice actor and they're not going to come back.  23:11 So I speak at a lot of these and there's a lot of other great business and marketing coaches that presented a lot of these. I think it's really important for you to take the time yes, if there's a certain casting director that you want to meet, if there's a certain coach you'd like to connect with to see if you'd be a good fit for getting coached for them and booking a demo, which I know Anne experiences that all the time make it a point to go to one or two business or marketing related things, because it's not even just being about a well-rounded voice actor, it's about being effective at all, because if you don't know that stuff, you're not going to get anywhere. All the best video game and cartoon coaching in the world isn't going to get you anywhere if you don't know how to demonstrate your value, to get you those casting opportunities and if you don't have the business savvy to capitalize on those opportunities, yeah, I mean, I agree, a thousand percent, a thousand percent really.  23:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, and I've seen it conference after conference and I used to teach the business classes early, early on, before I knew Tom, I used to do like social media classes, business classes, and it was interesting because people were just so drawn to like the character and the animation classes and those performance classes and I think you really just need to have I mean, this is one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss. It was really about the business strategies for voiceover artists and really that's what this podcast was all about to hopefully help educate in the business sense of it, business and marketing sense of things, because you can have the best voice in the world but if nobody knows about it, there you sit, there you sit, wow. So some good tips and tricks, guys. I highly recommend the Mabel conference. I know Val, she just works so hard at it and it really was a lovely conference and I hope I get asked to go back next year.  24:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I hope you do too, and I had a wonderful time and I always look forward to it, and hopefully I will get asked again as well. Hint, hint, val, if you're watching this.  25:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, Val, we love you Val. So yeah, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:17 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.   

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Rolf Veldman, CEO of Voice123, for a riveting discussion on navigating pay-to-play platforms amidst the shifts brought on by disruptive technology. Anne and Rolf go in-depth on pay to plays, social media, and the opportunities and challenges that voice professionals need to navigate. They discuss the complex algorithms that dictate audition opportunities on platforms like Voice123 and the balancing act to make it fair for the different levels of subscribers. As more companies test the validity of AI and synthetic voices, Rolf discusses Voice123's strategic partnerships with specialized companies, highlighting their commitment to protecting voice actors' work through digital fingerprinting. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing, coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at Anne Ganguzza dot com. Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to have a very special guest, Rolf Veldman, coming from the Netherlands. Rolf, it is so wonderful to have you today.  01:07 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I'm very happy to be here, Anne.  01:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, for those of you that don't know Rolf, I mean probably everybody knows of you, but Rolf is absolutely a boss who enjoys turning great ideas into great businesses, and I, for one, have been following Rolf for gosh since he stepped into the CEO position, because I like to watch bosses when they work. So Rolf leads a diverse, globally remote team of achievers who are pushing the boundaries of the voiceover industry and maybe pushing the buttons of the voiceover industry too, as we all know and, yes, based in the Netherlands, where I just was, I absolutely love it there. You also like to garden because you live near a national park near the German border, which is awesome.  01:49 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah.  01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's always nice to know those other things besides being, you know, the CEO of one of the largest online pay-to-plays that you also like to garden. I love it.  01:59 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, I don't want to say it as my main hobby, but like I'm sitting here in my office but I tend to take my laptop downstairs and then, when it's sunny out, I sit in the garden dogs around me like couldn't make me happier with that.  02:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Love it and it's so beautiful. The country is just beautiful.  02:16 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I don't know exactly where you are, but every part of it that I visited I just absolutely loved.  02:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, it's tiny, You're through it in a heartbeat Right, but you're close to everything else.  02:21 I feel so that's what's so cool about it. Well, Rolf, I know we have a little bit of time not too much time and I know that there are, as I mentioned a little bit earlier, there are two things typically that people want to know with pay-to-plays, right, they all want to know about the algorithm and they all want to know about AI. And so start me off by telling me first how, since you've come in to be at Voice123, how the industry has evolved and how Voice123 has evolved.  02:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I mean that question alone could be two hours. I guess I know right, Because a lot has changed already. I know that AI was already there from the beginning, but since we'll get to that later, I think the main difference is is in the last five to six years because I joined in 2018 the audio part of advertising has exploded. The fact that we're doing podcasts now and not radio, I mean it's open doors to kick in, but so many people are consuming content on their phone by audio more and more and more, like audiobooks have skyrocketed. So many of these industries that voice actors are part of have been growing tremendously and as part of that, also the number of people who want to be in voiceover. So it's been an explosive amount of people coming into the industry. And when new people come into the industry, that changes things all the way from how you offer your services to how relevant certain companies become.  03:44 Like I felt the last five years, and even now, Voice on 3 is constantly at risk of being replaced. We might be here for the last 20 years, but how do we stay relevant? So our goal is always to stay at the core of what we do. In the core of what we do is we want to make sure that voice actors and their clients they build great relationships don't get in the way like that's sort of our vision of what our role is in the voiceover industry. By staying close to that, I think we're still very much a relevant player and it's still a popular place for people to find each other and do VO.  04:11 But especially the amount of people that came in and the type of work that has changed the last couple of years has been wow. Like, just to build on that, like we have a search bar in Voice on 3 where you can see where clients type in keywords what they're looking for and you can see trends that used to last maybe six months or nine months in terms of style of voiceover or popular niche. They now change week over week. Really depends on what is hot on TikTok or Instagram. Advertisers jump on it straight away and you see that reflected in how people are getting booked on Voice on 3. Like the space, part of it has changed.  04:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so interesting is that we talk in our industry. We're like, okay, what are people looking for? And we go to these workshops with casting directors and we say, okay, what are people looking for? But what's so interesting is that you have a really good idea of what people are looking for, and I think that voice actors sometimes we have a narrow view right of what do we need to do to. First of all, you mentioned the word relevant, which I think is so important, not just for your business, but so important for us to remain relevant and to be able to deliver products that our clients are looking for. And you have a great idea of what people are looking for.  05:19 So, bosses, listen up. I mean, rolf is kind of the guy that has a really good idea of what trends are happening, what people are looking for in the online space and maybe just in general, right, because there are so many people now that are seeking voice talent online as opposed to going through agents. And so the people that go through agents, right, think about, in the United States, agencies and talent agents that book commercials, promos, those types of things that are broadcast. Well, you probably get pretty much. Well, you get some of that, and I'm sure that you get quite a bit of all the other non-broadcast stuff too, and that's where we as an industry right.  05:59 We don't always know what are people looking for. People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for corporate narration? What are people looking for? People constantly ask when I'm coaching them what do people look for? What are people looking for for a corporate narration? What are people looking for for e-learning and that sort of thing? So I love that you, number one, said that you need to remain relevant, because we also, as bosses, need to do that, and also you can tell us a little bit more about trends that are happening.  06:19 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, there's so much we can zoom in, but let me start with some fundamentals.  06:22 That I think that people sometimes underestimate is that while maybe, as a voice actor, you are nervous because you have to audition and you have to start this relationship, on the other side is a person that's often in the same place. Most people don't know vo and most people are either creating a video or an ad and then voice over is just the other thing that they do. So so they come in with especially new clients. They come in with complete misunderstandings of how this industry works and what they're looking for is almost like handholding, and not from us but from you. Like we see that the people that are most successful on voice on the three actually spend a great deal in being very consistent in their communication, like being almost like your own customer support agent, and that you're very crystal clear in what your availability is, how you respond to these clients, because most clients are afraid of two things Bad studio quality, which is still number one problem for a lot of people who book voiceover. That there are still many, many people who record via the phone.  07:23 And that you can stand out by just having your environment checked and being sure that you have a fair minimum on that one and again you beat out 80% of the people on places like voice on the 3 and voices in other places just by doing that.  07:35 The other one is that first contact point, and that first contact point is all about that customer relationship and being welcoming, being helpfully trustworthy towards the other side.  07:45 A lot of voice actors not a lot, but some voice actors come at it with a lot of distrust with the first message is the list of demands, and we see that they don't succeed so well If the first interaction is a question or a welcome. We see that just those messagings are so important on a digital space, because the difference between going online and going through an agency is if you want to work with an agent, most likely what the end client wants is an experience, the experience of doing the ad and going to a studio and look at us, we're doing the real thing, like people are just people. They go to work, they want to experience their own little piece of hollywood. That's what you get by an agent. But on casting sites there's a lot of people that have a deadline, they want to meet it and I want to make it a joyful experience. So they want to collaborate. So if you start from collaboration, you have so much of an advantage.  08:30 Then there's two other things that I think are trends.  08:33 The other one is the pandemic has changed or accelerated the amount of people who want to turn their content into audio.  08:43 One of our fastest growing clients on Voice on 3 is universities and colleges, because they used to give in-class lessons, but they took what's left of the pandemic and basically turned every course into an e-learning course as well, just on the side or as a way to get back to it. So that's a fast growing segment of voiceover. And the other one is that more and more clients know that they have to stand out, but they also have to be consistent in their messaging, so they want to work exclusively with one or two voices that represents their whole brand. That used to be like Coca-Cola has a celebrity. Now, even on a midsize and lower size companies, they want to have a consistent voice and they want to work with that same person. And that means that you as a voice actor need to be more versatile. You need to not just do specializing the commercial side of it, but be available for maybe some of the in-house aspects that that company wants to do.  09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I like that A couple of interesting things. I like that, yeah, a lot, and one thing I've always liked about Voice123 is that you basically allow us to nurture that relationship with the client. You don't get into it, you don't do any managed sort of projects that I know of, unless that's something that you're thinking of doing or is that, yeah.  09:50 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So the whole fundamental aspect of Voice on the 3 is we know that we succeed if the voice actors succeed. We know that the only way to succeed as a voice actor is if you can turn a client into a returning client.  10:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  10:01 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Right.  10:02 So, for that. We need to make it an open space Like we would love to build the perfect features for everybody to do everything on Voice on the 3, but we know that people work in their own way, so we will never make it forced to stay on Voice on the 3. People put their emails in their profile. Often the first message is this is my email, let's move over here. Or maybe you've experienced this yourself, but you can see people being contacted on LinkedIn based on an audition they did on Voice123. Oh yeah, absolutely.  10:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I still have a client that I got on Voice123 from ages ago and I wasn't even a member, I was in between memberships and I was on the free. So I still have one client that I've retained through that relationship and I love that. You brought up how important the relationship is and nurturing the relationship and how people online are, yes, absolutely looking for an experience. You're right, there's a lot of companies out there. Well, first of all, they don't know a lot about voiceover, they don't really know how it works, and so it's up to the voice actor to really kind of handhold and take them through that process successfully, and then they have a great chance of that client returning, which is one of the ways that I've been able to stay in business for so long.  11:07 I mean, honestly, I do a lot of things Everybody that knows me, I do this podcast, I do a bunch of other things and so I'm very fortunate that I have a lot of returning clients and that's how my business is maintained and that's an important thing these days, especially when economies shift and they go up and down, and so it's really important to have those clients that keep returning and know that there's a lot of successful people utilizing Voice123 that have been able to do that.  11:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And there's a position of strength that you have as a voice actor is that you have the word actor or artist in your name, which immediately creates awe. Like every time I talk to you or any kind of voice actor or professionals, I always feel that I'm exposed to my own incompetencies, like I cannot do what you do. You're the one in the booth, you're the one who can act. Most companies have tried this with somebody in-house and then suddenly you record. It's such a massive difference. So you, you come in as an expert, so it's okay to then guide the client in the process to a certain of course.  12:03 Of course there's always the client, the agency, the production houses that roll out a lot of ads and a lot of videos. Those are also good relationships, but those are relationships you manage differently. That's more about being available. You let them know that, okay, I'm available. My reply time is like 10 minutes. Well, for another type of client where you can see this is the end user or the people who are actually going to make the ad themselves. That's where you are the professional. So you have to know those tiny nuances and how you portray yourself in that relationship. I think are fundamental.  12:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think all of this is wonderful and great, but the one thing I know that are on the boss's minds right now are so how do I book that? What would you recommend that I do? How do I get the jobs to my inbox right? And that's controlled by something called an algorithm, which is probably the one big main point of dispute on every pay-to-play, not just voice one, two, three right, like what's the algorithm? Because you're getting the jobs and then somehow there needs to be a method to distribute those jobs equally amongst your members, and then there's different membership levels. So explain a little bit about how that works.  13:08 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah.  13:08 So it came from a very practical problem that we basically got too big.  13:12 So the algorithm is basically a fancy word for a decision process and it's very straightforward where a client posts a project and if it's US, english, female, like, you're still in a group, but as soon as it's male, you're no longer in the group, right.  13:25 So there's a couple of basic requirements of who you are as a person and what your services are, and then we go into the next stage where our goal is to get the client the most relevant auditions for their project right. So what we do is we invite the first group of people, and in that first group of people are a mix of people with good performance scores and with memberships. So if you pay the highest tier, you're stepping up compared to the lowest tier. We control the highest tier, otherwise it would be a monopoly but basically it's a mix of what you pay and then there is the ranking score, as we call it, and that is based on the client's feedback, whether a client books you from a job or likes you in the process of auditioning. That's what we take back and we use the last year's worth of data for that and that makes your score fluctuate.  14:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's a whole year's worth of data. So, how do you convince your client or your potential client to rate you? I guess that's a question, right, because some clients are just they're not going to bother with the rating, right? Yeah?  14:24 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) no, that's the flaw in the system, right? Ideally, every client that comes through we tell them let us know who you work with, but, as you know, most clients don't use us that way. Only like 40% of the work goes through the auditions. The other half is a mix of what happens on our search or on landing pages that are separately, because you can also just go through our directory.  14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, right, right, and then they can contact separately.  14:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So all we know is from the audition, and in the past we've tried to force the client to close the project. Let us know who won or force the client to close the project Let us know who won or force the client to book a project, but all it did was scare the clients away and they don't want to use us anymore. We have to keep that open because we also want to keep the platform open, because if we make booking, Difficult.  15:07 Yeah, if we make it too forceful for you, then we become a middleman. We don't want to be a middleman, so we have to balance the fact that we don't want to collect that much information. We have to have enough information to know that it's relevant. So there's a flaw in the system that not every client likes all the proposals. That's why voice actors can now tell us hey, I got booked through this job and that counts also to your algorithm. But yeah, it's a fundamental issue in the algorithm Over a year's worth of data. That works and I have to think in big numbers, right, because we have about 120,000 active voice actors on a platform. So for 100,000, that works. But every now and then people fall off the edge and then we have to make sure that they don't waste their money on a membership. So that's why we're constantly tweaking the algorithm to make it better.  15:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I was going to say. So what percentage? Or is this the percentage that changes is based on the feedback score, because I think the feedback score for most people is obviously it's the most variable, right? So when I make a decision to join Voice123, I have how many different membership tiers? I want to say eight or something, yeah, eight tiers to choose from. So do I pay you more money? And then how do I know, and you know what? I mean, how do I know which tier to pick?  16:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I know, and you know what.  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean Like how do I know which tier to pick?  16:13 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's why we try to show you like in which market you're competing. One of the reasons we have the extra tiers is that we operate in every country, but like North Korea and some other sanctioned countries. So in a marketplace like the Netherlands, where I'm from, vo is not that big and we don't get a lot of jobs for Dutch people on Voice on 3, but enough and we have enough voice actors, so those people pay a lower tier In the US, which is very competitive if Voice on 3 is your only casting site that you go on, I would suggest paying a higher membership.  16:45 If Voice on 3 is something that you have on the site or that you partly work on and you work on other casting sites as well and you have agents, I wouldn't necessarily recommend a higher membership tier because throughout the year you get enough auditions and you have to be very selective about them, and you get enough direct messages to pay for itself.  17:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I think what most people don't think about and you just pointed it out to me actually is that because it's global and because of the availability of the different jobs that come in, right, I think a lot of people maybe I can speak for people in the US they're like well, if I pay more, I should get more opportunities and I should be able to book more, but that's not always the way, because we don't want people who our clients consistently tell us not good to pay their way to the top. Got it.  17:29 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) But we also know, if you pay a little bit more for a membership you get very into voice on the dream. So they become very active. That's very good for us as well, because that means clients get fast additions. There's multiple aspects to it.  17:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and this is a part that I never thought about and I'm so glad that you're bringing it up because you know, I think that with a better understanding of how Voice123 works, we can then as members of Voice123, make an educated decision as to maybe, which membership tier would be best for us and also what sort of issues you face, because there are so many variables in casting. And one thing I'm going to bring up before I let you continue is that I've always maintained that online casting companies pay-to-plays they don't have any accountability necessarily I'm not saying that about you, but I'm saying some of them don't in the fact that where did the job come from, did it get booked and who booked it? Right, and you just brought that up. I mean, you don't always know, the client doesn't always fill it out and the client is sometimes scared Well, maybe not, it's too many steps, right? They just want to be able to get in get their talent cast it Exactly.  18:35 So you've brought up like a fundamental fact that I think a lot of people just they don't think about when they're making that quick decision and they're just saying, well, I pay all this money, I should be getting the auditions, and how am I not ranking? And it's not fair. So I love that you're bringing up all the different sides of how you cast and I think you, especially by coming on this podcast and for the amount of times that I've seen you go, I mean literally put yourself out there at the conferences so that you can explain. I have so much respect for you for that and I thank you for that, Rolf, because that helps us. Do you know what I mean? And it helps me as, look, I recommend you guys all the time to my students and so it helps me really think, yes, I like the way this company operates. I'm on board because you're transparent.  19:17 I really believe you know and I appreciate your transparency with all of these things that we don't think about necessarily as actors, because we're not running that part of your business. We don't know what it takes to put together an algorithm, or we don't always know like what your clients and that's the biggest thing, we don't always know how clients operate, and I'm always telling my students that you know. If you're reaching out to a company directly to say, hey, I'm a voice actor, do you need services? Like, at any given point they may or may not need the service. You know what I mean. And so a direct marketing method is completely different than, let's say, somebody who comes to a pay-to-play because they have a need, Right Direct marketing. You don't know when that need's going to happen. Every company every day doesn't necessarily have a voiceover need, which is crazy.  20:00 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And I think to bring this back to like you're a boss yourself, like if you do three things half-assed, you're not going to succeed in any of those right. So I would for any starting voice actor, particularly if you're constantly forced between the decision do I go hard for an agent? Do I go hard for these online casting sites or do I go direct marketing? Especially in the beginning. I would tackle them one at a time and even within the casting sites. Being on a casting site like Voice on the 3 or Voices or Badalgo, is so different. You cannot duplicate your profile or your behavior among these companies because they're their own ecosystem. So you have to really spend time to get to know it, because you're spending your marketing budget on these sites. So I would say tackle them one at a time, otherwise you're spread too thin.  20:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get you, I get you. But I would also say, though, that as you progress and as you advance, and then people will say to me they've been in the business for years and they're like, well, I spent all this money on coaching and demos and a pay to play, and why am I not getting any work? Then I think I'm sorry, but you got to throw the spaghetti up against the wall, right. You've got to get yourself out in front of as many people as you can, and there's multiple marketing methods, and I think that that's what people don't understand. They think it's either putting all your eggs in one basket for pay-to-plays I should be getting work, I'm not getting work. I'm going to make any money in it? I think you really have to explore all the different options of marketing that you have right Direct marketing, pay to plays and, of course, agents and understand the intricacies of each. That is, I think, just as important as keeping your skills up to date, and your performance up to date is understanding the marketing and understanding the market that's out there.  21:33 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, and understanding your own business, your business's relationship, and you know that you don't nurture a relationship in a day.  21:39 That's months If you're starting out that means that only in your second year or in your third year VO starts to pay off, because then all these people that come back start to compound. So you have to do a lot of the legwork, which is the scary part, especially on, maybe, sites like Voice123, where you feel like I'm auditioning, I'm not getting stuff back like it's working, but there's a patience to it. That's one of the reasons we have yearly memberships. We use them quarterly but we know that, okay, it takes about six to seven months for people who are starting out to get really booked for the first time properly, and actually it takes about two years for people to make about five times their money back. That's what we learned.  22:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's very interesting to know, and I like that you brought up the fact that a relationship doesn't happen overnight. It really does take time to culture that relationship, and so I think that that's important for people to know too is that sometimes they quit too soon, too quickly, before they've given it a chance. So I love all that you've brought up so far. So let's get to the chase and talk about the other area that everybody wants to know, and that is synthetic voices and everybody's feeling very threatened by them, and so talk about Voice123's stance and position on synthetic voices.  22:46 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, maybe I said this before, but when I joined the company in 2016 and in 2018 I became CEO, it was already my first mission to say okay. The board told me then AI is coming. It's either going to replace us and that's the fear back then Like it's going to replace voice actors and therefore voice one to three. What do we do? My view has shifted the last couple of years and even the last couple of months. Even though AI is everywhere, what I keep coming back to is the thing that we're talking about this entire podcast. It's relationships and the creative aspect. I think AI will do great in any industry to reduce inefficiencies, but it will never replace creative work or never replace art. That's why it's art right. So what our idea has been these last couple of years? We can go in so many directions, but we need to stay at the core and that is, we need to amplify that. You have a relationship with a client.  23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How does AI play that role.  23:36 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) We first thought maybe we should build our own AI model. But we realized, okay, that requires its own company and a lot of work. There's geniuses that work everywhere.  23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know that from interviewing so many people have realized this over the time.  23:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, so that's not a side thing you do.  23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's not a side hustle.  23:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No. So then we realized, okay, maybe we should partner or acquire a company that does this already. But then we realized, same as with VoiceOver, ai goes into specific niches. So there's a company called Replica Studio they're all into gaming, right. There's a company like Respeech here that's more into movie part of it, and they have speech. And you see all these companies specializing on VO purposes. So we realized, okay, no, we need to instead of thinking about that technology. The technology will be there In two or three years. Anybody can build voiceover technology.  24:23 So, let's wait for that to happen. Let's set up the Voice on the 3 ecosystem in such a way that it is a secure place, because even before AI, voice actors have always been worried about is my audition being used without my permission? Right, are my files being stolen? So we learned from companies like Adobe, who have created all these kind of initiatives, to start stamping and IDing and signing all these different designer files to protect these freelancers. We have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. Have decided to sign every piece of audio file that flows through Voice on 2.3. So that we have, like, a history and a protection layer within the system, without it being a watermark that beeps everywhere, but just a layer of protection that you always come back to. And we take basically a three-step approach. We sign every audio, we make it searchable for you in a cloud where you can access all the files that are being signed on Voice on 2.3. And you can check. That's the last part.  25:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's digitally signed. Got it All the audio that gets uploaded? Yep, okay.  25:21 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the audio, and that includes audio that isn't like.  25:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This is just all audio additions, yeah.  25:27 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) And samples and everything that flows through the system. We just tag it, say it is found on 1, 2, 3, and it acts like a fingerprint that's unique, which also means that we got to a place, because there's so many samples that we got to ID your voice, so on top of that, we sort of added a Shazam for your voice.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if I have uploaded stuff to your system, you know that it's mine and you also know that it's voice one, two, three, and if it gets out of your system it is still got that mark on it and it's not audible. It's a digital fingerprint.  25:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) That's. I mean you should have done a pitch. That's way faster, yep. The last part of this is that, even if you hear your voice somewhere else and you think this is me, somebody has used my file or I don't recognize it, but you can upload it and then we can say, hey, this is with 95% certainty.  26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's fantastic.  26:12 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So we thought we need that layer of protection in the system for people to feel safe to start also working on AI, and that's then. The next part is that we have a better life where voice actors who have a relationship with an AI vendor so let's say it's Respeecher, or Replica Studios or Eleven Labs I mean there's 50,000, I shouldn't name them all but if you have a relationship with any of these vendors, then we want to make sure it's available to our clients, in the same way that we let them know that you use SourceConnect. And what we thought would happen is that, okay, we have a version of our search where you type in a script and it automatically generates the audio. If you have an agreement with one of those companies, we thought, okay, they will start buying it. Nobody buys it. Nobody buys the audio file. What is happening is all those generated audio files turn into conversations where the client says I liked your voice in my script, let's work together. So what it is doing is it's creating a new type of audition.  27:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Very interesting.  27:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Which I like, which is, for the clients, a fast way to get to know. Does Anne sound good in my script? Yes, okay, let's book Anne and do the real deal outside or inside. It's changing that part.  27:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So they're listening to the AI voice and then saying I want to work with Anne and get her human voice. That's very interesting.  27:31 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Now that sounds almost too good to be true, rolf. Yeah, but so far it's what we see. But so far that's what you're seeing. So I think it's the 90-10 rule I think I mentioned this before where, in the end, ai is going to be part of us in the same way that all these other tools source connect and 10 years ago you had to start having your own home studio. The people who did that first, they pioneered that part of the industry.  27:44 Within the next five years, every voice actor will have an AI model. A client will ask them hey, I've generated 90% of this commercial or this audiobook with your AI. Can you do the last, the last 10? Can you come in for this scene? Or can you come in for this piece or the other way around? Great recording. We're going to do some post-production, maybe change some words. Do you consent to this that I use your ai for this, and so it speeds up those kind of moments? But in the end, people want to work with an and part of an is an's ai voice and we think voice on three's goal. Okay, let's make it the place where that happens. We don't make money on what any of the interactions is between you and the voice actor, like we do now, but let's make sure that this is a safe place where you can give clients access to your AI model in a way that you want to.  28:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how are you actually giving clients access to? If you have an AI voice, how are you actually giving access to it? Are they able to generate it there on your site or no, they cannot download it. Oh, they can't download it.  28:39 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) They can buy it, and then all the money goes to the voice actor.  28:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Say that again.  28:44 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All the money goes to the voice actor, okay.  28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So you're not taking any percentage of that.  28:48 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) No, we add a fee on top of it, but never from it. Okay.  28:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, okay, yeah, and so do we price our voice ourselves.  28:56 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, it's your rate card. Okay To be honest what I think will happen. We have this debate internally as well, so we're now in a first beta mode of this. Let's say it's six months from now or nine months from now no-transcript. You give them access to your model there and you can see what they're doing to generate it. It's like a logbook of how they generate it. That would be my ideal scenario of how it's getting used, because then you have full control.  29:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so the talent is creating a rate card for their synthetic voice, then yeah, so let's say, when I create a profile, do I also upload a version of my synthetic voice? How do I make that available?  29:37 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, right now you can just sign on to. If you go to the Voice on 3 search, it says connect your voice and you can start the process there, got it, and then we'll ask you these questions. But later on, ideally, it becomes part of your signing up. Hey, do you have an AI voice? Yes, what's your rate card? Then go here If you don't access to the client and you can embed this on your own homepage. Right, you can use the same logic on your homepage without showcasing the logo of Voice on the 3.  30:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, that's interesting. So you have an API that allows us to embed it on our own website.  30:09 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You can already do your playlist of Voice on the 3 on your own website without showcasing Voice on the 3. So, it's the same logic. And then if you connect it with the cloud, where all your files are being stored and being signed, then it's hard to put it into order. But that was the whole six-layered strategy that we have. Okay, let's make sure there's trust. Let's make sure there's enough that we can track everything that's happening.  30:30 Let's make sure that we expose the relationship between the voice actor and the client, and that's sort of the vision that we have for AI.  30:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great. You know, I'd love to meet up again with you in you know a couple of months and have maybe a visual demonstration of this. I think it would be really great. Or if you have a visual demonstration of it. I'd love to link it up in my show notes.  30:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) All right, yeah, we'll share something yeah absolutely.  30:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That just sounds very interesting. There's a lot of layers there and there has lot of protection in terms of they can't download the file, but can they have, like I mean there's lots of ways to steal audio.  31:02 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) You know what I mean. That's not AI related, right? It was there before AI and will there be after. That's true.  31:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. So there's nothing theoretically, I'm a tech girl, right? So there's nothing stopping anybody from taking our voices from this podcast right now, and making an AI voice out of them. So I just want bosses to be very careful of that. So the one thing about the signing right that you have the digital signing like this is Anne's voice. It came through Voice123. Is that open source technology?  31:26 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Yeah, we're building on existing open source technology.  31:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) OK, because a lot of us voice actors right now we're like, ok, we keep hearing about it, we keep hearing about it. It isn't available to us yet. You know, I would like to have something right now that, even if I'm not a member of Voice123, I can just filter it, put it through and then my voice has a digital signature that later on somebody can tell if that audio or if I become a voice somehow, that they will be able to tell that it was my voice.  31:52 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I agree. That's the whole idea. Yeah, so, and one of the reasons here we're pivoting more towards this is in part because we're going back to the beginning of this podcast about trends. We see that auditioning becomes less and less popular in the industry. The old school I want 50 auditions and I want to see as many talent as possible. I can see the new generation doesn't really want to do that. The next generation of people who book voiceover. They want to do the direct contact approach. They want to listen to some of your samples and then contact you directly and move it off.  32:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's lovely. That's a really good trend. I like that, Rolf.  32:25 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I think so too, but it also means for companies like ourselves okay, we have to reinvent ourselves a bit, yeah yeah, yeah, we have to make sure that we're relevant, and that's why we're focusing all about security and tooling, and your algorithm has to change then, too, right?  32:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because then people searching on your site for a particular style of voice right? How do you get up at the top of that list without necessarily the feedback on any auditions, right? So you have to evolve with that as well. But that direct contact, I like that trend because I can actually see that happening myself outside of pay-to-plays, because it's becoming almost like overwhelming, right. With social media and data out there, it's becoming overwhelming, and I think people that are looking to cast for a voice they want it to be. That's why talent agents are good, because, again, they're a trusted source. They are the ones who like shortlist and say, okay, here you go, and it makes it less overwhelming for the client.  33:17 So you're experiencing that as well on pay-to-plays and I like that. I like that because I feel like it gives everybody a fairer shot of it. I mean, I get how, like auditioning, people want to hear you speaking their brand, but also I think they want to just kind of weed out all of the. You know there's a lot of people out there they want to weed out all the voices. Maybe I don't need a male voice or I want a female voice and I want somebody that has good audio, and I love that you brought that up, because good audio is still at the very core of a good product.  33:47 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) So many people in Voice on 3 put in their tagline what they do like a perfect girl-next-door kind of approach. That's the kind of voice I do. If you put in your tagline studio quality, you're beating out half the team.  34:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, thanks for that tip, I like that. That's a golden nugget, rolf. So what a great conversation. I almost hate to have to cut this short, because I'd like to see a demonstration of the whole synthetic voice, ai, integration, and I might be calling you back in a couple of months.  34:15 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) I would love to yeah, yeah, thank you to you?  34:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, thank you so much. It's been an honor. I love, I love talking to you, ralph. So you are a boss. You are definitely a boss. Thank you for always being transparent.  34:32 - Rolf Veldman (Guest) Thank you for bringing us on the other side of the glass, so to speak. It's the other side of the discuss these kind of things, like we only know the voice actor experience by talking to all of you, so this is our way also to get to stay in touch.  34:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good stuff. Rolf, thanks again. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl Connect and network like bosses using IPDTL and, of course, voice123 and bosses out there. I have a nice little discount for you. If you are interested, I'll put that in the show notes. You can get a little discount if you are a first time sign up to Voice123. Ralph, thanks again. Bosses, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  35:12 - Announcement (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Audio tech expert George Whittam, the genius behind George the Tech, joins Anne Ganguzza, on the VO Boss Podcast. The BOSSes tackle the technical hurdles of the industry - from unreliable internet to optimizing studio setups. George's solutions help empower voice talents to keep their focus where it belongs—on their craft. The BOSSes delve into strategies for leveraging technology and outsourcing to scale operations effectively. Adapting to change is non-negotiable in this rapidly shifting market, and finding a mentor can be crucial for navigating its complexities. The BOSSes highlight the importance of forming meaningful industry relationships and the camaraderie that can fuel professional success. 00:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, it's that season again. Are you feeling that tickle in your throat? Don't let a cold or flu slow you down. Combat your symptoms early with Vocal Immunity Blast, a simple and natural remedy designed to get you back to 100% fast. With certified therapeutic-grade oils like lemon to support respiratory function, oregano for immune power, and a protective blend that shields against environmental threats, your vocal health is in good hands. Take charge of your health with Vocal Immunity Blast. Visit anneganguzza dot com to shop.  00:41 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so happy and elated to be here with my special guest, audio tech guru and owner of George the Tech the one and only George Whittam, Woo-hoo.  01:16 - George Whittam (Guest) Hey, can you hear me okay from the Chili's in Palos Verdes, california.  01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can I, can I love it. You know George is. He is technology on the go, guys, and for those of you I don't know anyone that doesn't know you, but for those of you bosses out there that don't know George, you need to know George. He has been doing this since 2005, dedicating his life and I know this because he's helped me to serving the technical needs of bosses out there voice actors, podcasters, recording studio owners and in 2017, he launched georgethetechcom to assist anybody that needs support with just about anything. And he has an amazing team. I know firsthand. I have used that team. I've used George for many, many years and among his many successful clients I'm gonna say, in addition to me, are Don LaFontaine, bill Ratner, mr Beast, david Prog, melissa Disney, randy Thomas, joe Cipriano and Scott Rummel. Well, welcome, welcome, welcome and thank you for checking in with me, george, from your very busy schedule. George actually just popped off the road and said I will join this interview from the Chili's after my customer that you just went to go fix a studio.  02:32 - George Whittam (Guest) I did, I did. I do most of my work from home, of course, remotely, but I have a few clients who do have me on a membership program that I've been doing for many years and I make regular visits. So today was one of those days and technology, once in a while, it just flails miserably at letting you know that there's something you're supposed to be doing, and this was one of those moments. You texted me from the car. You're just, and you're like out of the blue tech, just checking in, and I'm like, oh, that's so nice, and it's just checking in, see you're not checking in.  03:03 You're like where the F are you right now?  03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) George, george, where are you?  03:07 - George Whittam (Guest) In our Riverside room right now. So anyway, thank you. I hope this isn't too distracting. They find me a quiet corner of the restaurant, so we'll see how it goes.  03:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I will say, though, here's the deal, my video now Riverside. Anybody that's been on Riverside knows that it's uploading video and audio separately, and right now my upload is at 94%, Yours is only at 55%, so that 5G connection keep your fingers crossed that that internet is going to upload that video successfully and the audio Don't worry. Well, guess what I get to do this again.  03:42 - George Whittam (Guest) I got your back because I'm recording it. I was about to say, I was recording in QuickTime and it said that you've stopped recording, so I'm going to start recording it again, just so I have another layer of redundancy to this whole thing. But that is the really cool thing about Riverside is that, yeah, it doesn't want QuickTime, won't let me. Okay, fine, fine, we're going to rely on new technology today. But, yeah, riverside is really cool the way it keeps a local record and even if my internet isn't, great.  04:09 I'll eventually get it uploaded to you, so don't worry about that. Yes, Awesome.  04:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it's always a good excuse to chat with you again, because it's so rare these days, I mean except when I'm desperate in need of technical support.  04:22 - Intro (Announcement) And.  04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'll have the bosses know that George helped me with my past or my latest studio upgrade. And I remember, george, that we were talking about me moving my Apollo solo into my studio which, by the way, it is moved in here and we were testing out this very long cable that went from my Mac studio out there into my studio and guess what it's working, and yay, technology. And so, george, you're instrumental in all of my studio upgrades and actually my original studio building when I moved to California back in oh my goodness, 2008. And so you've been through a lot of my studio builds. And let's talk a little bit about, oh gosh, what bosses need audio-wise right for being successful voice actors. They have so many technological needs.  05:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It is so many. You know. The thing is not everybody is like you, anne.  05:19 You love and embrace technology in a way that a lot of actors do not right and so on the cover of the laptop that you can't see because it's on the other side of the camera. I have a cover on my laptop and it's a picture of the left brain, right brain thing, right Like you know, the left being very technical, the right being creative, and I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm such a big proponent of finding the perfect middle balance. Maybe that's because I'm also a Libra, I don't know, but you know it's like I'm always trying to find that balance and I'm also trying to figure out who you are as my client. Are you more Ann Ganguza, or are you more Lori Allen, who's my quintessential super right brain, crazy actor talent, you know, and she knows that I'll say that and she'll laugh that doesn't love technology or doesn't care, right, I mean I get it.  06:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean we go into this industry. I mean some of us are just super, super creative and brilliant.  06:18 - George Whittam (Guest) If we had our choice, we would let someone else run all the technology and take care of it for us, which is what you do Absolutely. In a perfect world, we would all have our own little virtual assistant engineer people who just log into your machine and run everything for you. I do know a precious few actors who have actually availed themselves of such a thing, which is a pretty nice position to be in, right, and that would be a really cool scenario where you really don't need to think about it. But the fact of the matter is, the vast majority of the time, we have to think about and know what's going on with the technology and ensure that we're giving the client super clean, great quality audio quickly and on time, reliably, etc. Etc. And that's the goal.  07:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It is about good audio, but it's about a lot of other things beyond just good audio, you know, willing to really experiment and figure out solutions for your clients that are not like status quo. So if they have a budget, you can fit yourself within that budget and you make things work and you say, all right, so if you need this, we can maybe substitute this or we can work with this. And I'm talking bosses, my firsthand experience, not just on what microphone or give me a stack to put on my audio, but like home studio builds from the ground up, like what can I do to save money here? Or what can I do? I have this in my budget and you literally have created things from like the ground up, depending on your client's budget.  08:01 And I think that that's really awesome and it really goes to show like the versatility and the amount of skills that you have in, not just like one thing. I mean you have to be great at everything, because everybody has different technology, everybody has a different microphone, everyone has a different DAW, everyone has a different environment in their house that you have to kind of assess and then say, well, okay, here's a solution. And then I'm quite sure, myself being one of them going, no, I can't do that, so you'll come up with multiple solutions. Or if something doesn't work, you'll actually get it to work. You'll figure out what it is that's not working and then make it work.  08:38 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, it's so many different things because there's a lot of things that you can get away with or there's certain things that you can make work or get it to work. Here's my black bean burger and fries.  08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right.  08:50 - George Whittam (Guest) There's a lot of things you can get away with, so I'll try to talk while you take a bite. I will eat when you're talking, okay, so there's a lot of things that you can make work. There's a lot of things that you can get away with, and that's where people start out right. That's where you begin, that's where you learn on your own.  09:06 That's where you get used equipment. You get hand-me-downs, you buy what you can find on Amazon, right, you get away with it. You make it work. But at a certain point your clientele requires this consistency, quality and this quick turnaround, and that stuff starts to be cumbersome, it becomes a bother because it's getting in your way, right. So that's a big part of it. And then I'm glad you said earlier budget.  09:33 You really need to know where you're at. I mean, this is why voice acting, especially now as an entrepreneurial pursuit, you really need to have a pretty good idea where you're at with your budget. When you come to me, be honest with yourself, be honest with me. I'm not here to spend unnecessary money. I'm not here to push you or upsell you. I'm going to tell you exactly where you're at, based on where you are with your budget, and make sure it fits, because that's my goal is to help you out and get you where you need to go at the budget you've had to spend.  10:07 And then if it's either really too low, I'll let you know if I think it's not going to work, or I will speak up if I think you're overspending, if I think you've got this budget and it's unnecessarily. You know it's like, oh well, you've got that much to spend, all right. Well, let's think about that. Should we really spend all of that? Or should we really be spending 20% of that on the mic and maybe 50% of that on building your website, getting your demo, that kind of stuff right? So I'll make sure your money is spent the right way, but be really honest with yourself about what your budget is. Know where you're ready to spend so we can get off on the right foot.  10:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk about the types of services that you do offer, because I'm happy to recommend you and your team to my students, and I think they might have preconceived notions as to oh well, george can just create a stack for me, or George can just tell me what microphone to buy, with lots of experience in multiple operating systems. So it's not just the mic or not just the studio, it can be your computer, it can be your software, it can be how to use Twisted Wave or how to use I just had a student the other day Studio One. I'm sure you have somebody on your team that can help with somebody with Studio One, and so can you create a filter for that? And so I'm constantly saying to myself I know lots of different audio engineers that specialize right, and I think that's great, but they're all independent, right? And so I can't be like, oh gosh, well, who knows Twisted Wave or who knows Studio One, or who knows?  11:48 And I'll think about it. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop, because now you've built yourself up a team. What's great is you're like a one-stop shop because now you've built yourself up a team, and I love this, because when I hired you in the beginning it was just you and you're I mean, you're busy back then and I love how you've like I mean, talk about being a boss, right. You've actually grown your little empire there and created a team of really amazing people that work for you, that have great skills and very specific skills. Speak to that a little bit.  12:14 - George Whittam (Guest) It's been a dream for a really long time to expand beyond myself. It started probably 12, 13 years ago in New York City. I knew I couldn't be in New York City that often and I had a few clients in New York and I thought, god, it'd be a no-brainer to have somebody else backing me up here in Manhattan. I actually had interviews in Borders bookstores with people that responded to ads, sat down, interviewed people and onboarded some folks and it just turned out that, one, maybe it was too soon to do it and two, it wasn't enough demand, because at that time it was a different time. But New York it was almost 100% studio town. Right, all the gigs were in studios because they're all over the place, they're all like walking or a subway ride away. So New York was a different environment.  13:05 So flash forward now quite a few years and I decided, with the new website that I had built by Skills Hub a couple of years ago, that it was finally time to properly expand the team. And now that I have a system built, an infrastructure, a booking system, the whole thing that allows me to essentially infinitely expand, I can build it as big as I want. I finally had the tools and everything in place to do that, and so we have that. Now you can go onto the website. Let's say you need help with Adobe Audition. You can see who is available that is actually an Adobe Audition expert and then you'll see their availability and you can book into the system right then and there and get help with someone that actually knows what they're doing. I realized after a while there's a certain point where I don't necessarily learn and retain new information the way I used to. I think that's just life, that's just age, right?  14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, there's so much now.  14:04 - George Whittam (Guest) And there's so much more.  14:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know you're like right Anne.  14:07 - George Whittam (Guest) Right, but I get that I totally get that.  14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But think about this what I really love. What I really love is, again and again, this is the VO Boss podcast. So I really like to always relate things to how you can really be a boss, and I think all of us voice actors are bosses, obviously in our own right, and I think we really need to look for ways that we can grow and expand. Right and it's not an easy thing, right, it's a scary thing how can you scale? How can you provide more services for your clients so that your business can move forward successfully? And you are such a great example of I mean, not everybody that's a voice actor, is an audio engineer and they're going to scale their businesses in the way that you did, but it's all relative right, as voice actors, how can you scale your business? And so if you think outside of the box and you think about what can you do that's efficient as a voice actor, right, maybe you don't like technology, maybe you don't understand your computer, and I'm saying there's a certain element that we have to be technologically adept, but you can consider outsourcing these things as a voice actor so that you yourself can scale your business, and you've offered this great place for people to have all kinds of options, and so it's not just like a one-shot deal.  15:25 George, I need help. You have like 24-7 support, and I know for a fact that you've got emergency tech support, which I know, having worked in technology for how many years prior to voiceover. Technology is awesome until it doesn't work and then people panic, right, and that's when it's almost the most important to have that type of support. And so I'm sure lots of you voice actors have had something happen with your computer, like, and all of a sudden you're at a loss, or something happened in your studio, you're at a loss, and now all of a sudden, do you have a backup? Do you have a way that you can deliver your goods, deliver your product to your client?  16:01 And I think we all need to really start thinking about how can we outsource, how can we scale, and you've got a great place where, if voice actors don't necessarily love working with technology or learning technology, nor do they have the time right For me. I have no desire to be an audio engineer, I know what I know right, and if I have problems, let's say I'm setting up my new Mac studio. Well, I don't want to spend my entire weekend trying to learn anymore. I mean, I love learning, don't get me wrong but I don't want to right now. That's not an efficient use of my time.  16:33 So I'd much rather call you and say hey, george, I know you've set up Macs, I know you've done the Apollo on this iOS and I'm running into these problems. Or I know I'm having a problem like with Zoom and then sending my audio through Zoom. How can you help me? So it just makes sense for me, as a boss, right to outsource that. And so make sure, out there, guys, that you have a source, and I highly recommend George a hundred times If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm recommending him a hundred times over. Have a source, have a place that you can go when you run into trouble technology-wise or with your computer, or you want to just learn. You also have educational resources. You have tutorials. Yes, you have one-on-one help. You've just got all those options and I think it just really lends itself. Not only are you showing people how you're a boss and you're scaling your business right. They can scale their business with you.  17:26 - George Whittam (Guest) Yeah, being a boss is what I've really become now. I was always solopreneuring. In a way I still am, but now I do actually have people that look to me for getting paid, look for me for getting jobs, look for me for communication and support and actually training. The content we create for you guys we use internally to train our own team. I want more of our team to be comfortable with the Universal Audio Apollo. I've been encouraging them to watch the content we already have. Everybody who does work for me gets complete carte blanche access to my entire library of content right, so they all can learn.  18:03 I want to work with you, then I would love to have you. I mean, honestly, the point is that we've built the network, we've built the system, we have the infrastructure. Now it's just a matter of what's the next thing a voice actor needs, or what's the next thing podcasters need, what's the next thing people that do media appearances need, studios, people that need to do executives, c-suite folks what do they all need? And we're trying to eventually fill these different gaps right, and so my role now is more of a boss, more of a CEO, more of a director, even beyond. I spend way more hours of my day doing director, boss, ceo work than I do actual build time nowadays, and that's just how things have morphed. But it's great.  18:52 I love finding out that somebody got a service from one of our team and I didn't even know about it. That's the coolest thing ever. Oh, you helped that guy. Awesome, I had no idea. That's great. That means things are working. I don't have to micromanage everything, and so that's been a huge thrill for me, and it's just allowed us to be so much more helpful to more people.  19:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I know my own business. When you said about micromanaging, and in reality, you know, we talk all the time about voice actors, we're solopreneurs, we wear all the hats, but now's the time to really start thinking about, okay, what is the most efficient use of my time? Right, and I want you bosses to really open your minds out to thinking that a lot of people they get stuck in this whole thought process that, oh, I can't afford to hire somebody. But in reality, if you sat down and you marked what is your price per hour? Right, how much money do you make when you're doing voiceover, versus how much money are you making when you're trying to, like, do the billing yourself? Right?  19:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I'm so glad you mentioned the hourly thing because a while ago somebody made that clear to me.  19:55 There's the hourly rate that you charge retail, right? I know what my hourly rate is per hour. If you want to consult with me directly, it's $360 an hour. Whoa huge number. Wow, that sounds really crazy. That's not what I make per hour. What I make per hour is actually what I made last year. Subtract my expenses, take my net revenue right and divide that by I don't remember the magic number is whatever. It is 52 weeks a year, you know. And then you basically whittle it down to what your actual hourly wage actually is and you start to realize like, oh my gosh, that's what my actual time is worth. And so you're going oh, now it is worth spending $25 an hour for a virtual assistant or somebody because I'm actually worth $50 an hour.  20:45 You know what I mean. So that's. It's really good to know that.  20:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, exactly.  20:50 And I think that we need to look outside of, like, the numbers that are just spent, because somebody might say, oh, I spent a thousand dollars on this microphone.  21:00 If you figure out what your value is per hour, right, and you're doing tasks that I always say, don't bring you joy a certain standard where, if I want to be able to direct somebody right that I'm going to outsource stuff to, I need to learn enough about it so that I can direct intelligently, right.  21:20 I know, you know, if somebody's saying to me well, it's taking me five hours to do this, when I know, in fact, maybe it shouldn't be taking five hours, because when you become a boss and you start employing people, you have to be concerned about, okay, what's the value of your employees and what are they bringing you, what are you paying them right and how efficient can they be? And I think also, george, it becomes where you now have to inspire the people that work for you to want to do their best for you, that they want to help move your company forward, and to do that, you've got to pay them a fair rate you definitely do and you've got to inspire them with things that they like to do right so that they join the team right.  22:01 And that's a whole other set of boss skills that's a whole other set of boss skills which I love.  22:06 - George Whittam (Guest) The amazing person I brought in to do our customer service and actually kind of act as a bit of an assistant to me as well. She also is a graphic designer. So when I realized that she was getting these skills, she was literally studying and I said you know what? Let's try some things, let's get you doing some more creative endeavors, and I'm paying her more for that. I said you know, track your time when you're doing graphic design, when you're creating our thumbnails and our promotional content for the socials and our webinars, and that's a different rate. You tell me what you think is a fair rate for your graphic design and then you have a rate for all the other general work and she breaks up her billing that way and so she's getting paid better for that work and that's going to be much more fulfilling for her because it's creative stuff and I think it's been working out really well. You know, my biggest fear is her going away. If she goes, away.  23:02 That's going to be a giant pain in my neck to find another person like her Finding good.  23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's going to be very difficult, so I want to keep her around.  23:12 - George Whittam (Guest) It's a delicate balance and I trust her. It sure is, you know, but it's a tricky one. The more you rely on outside help, the more you start realizing you need to make sure what will you do if that person needs to be replaced? It's another skill.  23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the people that work for you. They need to be better than you, and I think that's an ego thing for a lot of people. Do you know what I mean it's like? Oh no, I want to do it because I want to have control over it. I mean, I'm a control freak. I know this. I mean it took me a while, but once I started realizing that when you hire people who are better than you at the tasks like I'm not a graphic artist, so I want to hire somebody who's amazing at that and then pay them what they're worth, they aren't bitter, they don't feel like, oh, they're just working for pennies, and so they get excited because you want to work with them and collaborate. They get excited about helping you grow your business and you get excited about helping them grow their skills or grow their career as well under you. So I think it's something that bosses out there can really start to think about.  24:10 How would you expand right? And I think now too, with the technology and with AI and all this talk about the industry and how it's changing, I think technology it's always good to educate yourself on the technology evolve with the technology, those other things that we're talking about in addition to voiceover, like on-camera work, right? Voice actors maybe this is something that you know. You want to present yourself more professionally to your clients. What's involved in a good I don't know webcam or good lighting for your studio and that sort of thing. So that's the sort of thing that you can help them with as well in terms of expanding and broadening their horizons, even outside of voice acting.  24:51 So I love that you said that you were also delving into on-camera and technology for expanding businesses, because I think voice actors should also consider things like that. I mean, it's something we've talked about on the podcast as well, as we're moving forward along with this technology. What other services can you offer your clients? What other things can you do? Are you going to be making TikTok videos, right? How can you get your message out there? How can you market yourself right so that people know you exist, so they can hire you? And a part of that is getting out there, getting heard, getting seen, and you can help with that.  25:26 - George Whittam (Guest) And you might also be able to parlay that thing, because now you've become the spokesperson for that channel or that brand or that explainer and if you can now take that ability to create content into a visual medium and you might move beyond just doing voice, if you end up being comfortable on camera. You may not know if you're comfortable on camera until you do it. When I started my first podcast or really web channel, YouTube channel East West On your Body Shop, you can go back and watch episode one.  25:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh yeah, and I was like a deer in headlights Myself too.  26:01 - George Whittam (Guest) I got a lot more comfortable on camera. So you know, as I evolve and I start doing more and more interviews and interviewing others and I'm going wow, I'm really comfortable doing this. I've actually really enjoying this. How can I parlay this into a different? So now I'm thinking about speaking engagements and doing speaking roles.  26:21 I've gotten to teach in a couple of universities now. Wow, I love doing that, so maybe I need to parlay that into another thing. So I'm looking into speaking now. So it's just ever-evolving. If you get stuck in one lane, you can quickly start feeling discouraged. When that one lane that you chose starts grinding to a halt, you really need to be ready to try new stuff Starts getting traffic right and saturated.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean now I'm just thinking of that, you know, because after the pandemic I mean I had so many people that I think got into voiceover because of the pandemic and now I thought we were saturated before. But there's a lot of people in there. I'm not saying there isn't enough work, voiceover work. However, there's an awful lot of people doing voiceover. So I think it's always healthy for us to consider how we can always grow and always evolve. So I'm going to ask you one last thing, george, before I have to run for the day what would be your best advice that you would give someone out there just getting into the industry?  27:21 - George Whittam (Guest) Definitely work with a coach that understands the spectrum of what you need to learn in a holistic way. That coach doesn't have to be an expert in every aspect, but the coach should be very aware of that. You need to learn these separate skills right. So someone like Anne, for example. She knows a lot about a lot of things, but she also knows when it's time to get another person involved a demo producer, an expert engineer.  27:47 Yeah, that's so, so helpful, right, and it's so easy. These days it's almost like getting support is just like dating. It's so easy to just keep swiping right or swiping left. Which one is it? Because you're like well, that was nice, let me try that guy, and I hear that guy's good. Let's try that guy.  28:03 Hook your wagon to somebody for a while and focus in on what they have to say and learn before you start constantly seeking fresh perspectives. It doesn't mean fresh perspectives are bad, but you really need to focus on one person's methodologies and get behind them and then, after you've done it for a while, consider well, is it the best way? Well, maybe I could learn a new skill, or maybe I have another way to learn this that could save time. I never am offended when a client says I worked with somebody else along the way, but I do get concerned when somebody's pretty new and they've already taken, let's say, consulting from three or four different techs and four or five different coaches, because they're going to have a lot of conflicting or somewhat differing opinions and you're going to get so off base.  28:51 So find somebody that is well vetted, somebody that has like we have our trusted partners page on our website. Everybody on there is somebody we have worked with and trust. And hook your wagon to somebody like Ann, so you have that one point of focus to help you navigate all of this, and then they can help shut you off into different directions for those specialty things. Otherwise it can feel hopelessly confusing and there's just too much conflicting information out there. So that's the best thing I can say Just find one single point of trust, follow that person, get the advice they can give you and find the expertise in different areas when you need it, and go to georgethetech early and often. Yes.  29:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, I was just going to say how can people get in touch with you, george the tech?  29:44 - George Whittam (Guest) You have your landing page right, Absolutely Slash.  29:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, is it slash? Be a boss, my gosh.  29:50 - George Whittam (Guest) I don't have it memorized.  29:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I have it like in a link, I think so I'll check it, I'll look it up.  29:56 I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, I'll put it in the show notes for services. I do have a nice little link that I can send to you. That will save you some money on your first services with George. So highly recommend. George. It's been so nice to have you and I appreciate you pulling off to the side of the road and being safe and talking with us today, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom and George, it's been so wonderful talking with you. I feel like we should do a series. We should do a whole series with George the Tech.  30:31 - George Whittam (Guest) We'll do another one in a proper environment when I'm in my home studio, I promise. And, by the way, it's slash AG, so georgethetech slash AG for Ann Ganguza. That'll take you to all the information we have and our discount codes and come and visit us and learn from us. We have so much useful content that's affordable and accessible. So happy to be of service and thank you, ann. Thanks for being so cool, a friend and being always a pleasure to talk to yes. You're a blast to be around.  31:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I feel the exact same way about you. So thanks so much. All right, bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Take care, bye, bye.  31:13 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this episode of BOSS money talks, we guide you through the essential financial and managerial responsibilities of running a voiceover business. Discover how to budget for employees or contractors effectively, distinguish between different types of workers, and ensure fair compensation. Learn about the mental preparation required to step into an employer's shoes, the importance of training and feedback, and how to create a nurturing work environment that drives growth and success. Whether you're outsourcing tasks or managing an in-house team, this episode is packed with insights to help you effectively grow your business. We also highlight the critical role of trust and communication in any business operation. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at voboss com.  00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm your host, nne Ganguza, and I am so excited to bring back to the show money girl Danielle Famble to the show, hey.  00:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Danielle, hey, glad to be back.  01:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you?  01:01 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I'm great. How are?  01:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you. I'm good, you know, it is that time of the month, yeah. I'm talking about that financial time of the month.  01:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh yeah.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know what that sounded like, but anyways, it's that financial time of the month where I have to pay the people that work for me, and so I have to pay my employees. Do I call them employees, my contractors, my virtual assistants, whatever that I have, or whatever you may have bosses out there that help you to run your business, and I highly highly recommend them because they can really help you to grow, but it is something that, financially, I need to make sure that I account for it, and so I thought it'd be a great topic to talk about in our episode, because I know a lot of voice talents that are either they don't want to do marketing or they don't want to do social media, and so they're hiring assistants and they really need to know how to account for this financially in their businesses.  01:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, no, this is a really important topic because what you're talking about is being an employer, being responsible for the people who are helping you grow the business that you have created, and that's a really big responsibility. So not only is it about, like, accounting for it, but it's also making sure that you mentally are prepared for all the things that comes with being an employer. So, yes, being ready for the financial implications every single month is really important. But also, what are you wanting your employees to help you do? Contractors, whomever and there's a designation there. It depends on if they are specifically working for you and you've onboarded them from a tax perspective.  02:40 But if they are a freelancer, then a contractor, and there are different ways that you have to kind of deal with that.  02:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what? I love that you brought up the fact that not only like financially right, we have to figure out, okay, first of all, we're going to be outsourcing things in our businesses and we will be paying as an employer or as a contract, whatever, we'll be paying somebody, and so, financially, we need to be responsible, but also as a boss right, as a VO boss, you need to be a boss, and so there's also not just financial implications, but also are you ready to be a boss? And really, what are the criteria, what are the qualifications for people that you bring on board that can help you to grow your business, to be successful financially and growth wise?  03:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I think you also need to take a look inward.  03:26 Before you become a boss of someone else is really to figure out is there something for them to do consistently, what do you want this person to help you with, what are the tasks? And being able to train them on those tasks so that whenever they are doing whatever it is you have them doing in your business, they know how to do it. You know how to do it and you know if it's being done correctly or incorrectly and there's some feedback that needs to be given. So really knowing that, but also understanding that when you bring someone into your business, when you become a boss, you're responsible for, in a way, their livelihood. Personally, I take that responsibility seriously because I know before I became a boss, before I was running this business, I know what it feels like to be sort of at the whim of your employer and it can kind of be a bit of a vulnerable position. So you get to decide what kind of boss you want to be when you are the VO boss of your own business.  04:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that you brought that up. It is something that you're right. You need to look inward. You need to really take consideration.  04:30 If you've never been a boss of someone else, there are lots of different aspects to it and how to be a good boss, right, and so, financially, I'm going to say that number one, if you've worked in the corporate world at all and I say this so many times, like we just we want to be appreciated for what we do, right, we want to feel that maybe we can make contributions to the companies in which we work. And if we are not getting that happiness or that joy or that satisfaction, then typically we look elsewhere or we're like I got to get out of the corporate world, I just want to do voiceover. So the same thing when you're an employer, you're a VO boss and you have somebody that's working for you, you want to make sure that number one, you're paying them a fee. That is, I think, something that motivates them, inspires them, is fair, right Compensation, and you're not just trying to like get somebody because you don't have a ton of money and so I can't afford to pay you a whole lot. I really look at it differently. I'm like right, this is someone's livelihood. They're depending on the salary or whatever it is. You're paying them this little stipend for their livelihood and a lot of times they're freelancers themselves. If you happen to hire within the voiceover community, or if not, it is a portion of their income.  05:37 So you want to be a good boss number one, financially. You want to make sure that they're getting paid fairly, that they're getting paid, I would say, competitively for what they do, like if they're social media, if they're doing accounting, if they're doing whatever they're doing. You want to make sure that they're getting paid a fair fee, because you want to make sure they want to work for you and they want to be part of the team. That is the whole mental thing, right? You want them to work their best for you so that you can grow together, and so I think that's one thing to take into consideration. You're paying them fairly and then also, you're willing to manage them, because these are living human beings and there are emotions at play, right?  06:27 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There's all kinds of things that come into being a good boss, and I love that you talked about managing them, because really a huge step really comes from you being the person who is working in your business working your business to managing and overseeing other people who are taking on those tasks.  06:37 Again, this whole thing really is like a huge mental shift, because you need to now be able to articulate what it is that you are looking for, how to give feedback to that person and receive feedback, because once the person that you've hired becomes the one who's responsible for this task, they will likely become better at it than you were, because they're spending more time doing it than you did, and so maybe hearing and receiving feedback on a different way to go about this task, for example, might actually be better. But do you want to just stick with what you said and how you went about growing the business to bring them on in the first place, or do you want to take that feedback from them? It really is about like how much do you want to micromanage or not micromanage at all, and a huge part of it is also creating and crafting the vision for your business. Where are you going? Because you now the boss, you're the leader and you're sharing this vision and the people are helping. You know you're growing together, as you said. I love that.  07:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and you want them to be motivated and inspired to help you achieve that vision, especially for those of you that work in the corporate world. Right, how much? If you sit back and think about it, how much did you really care if you were helping the company to grow right? Was it just a salary for you or were you invested in it? And I think that, for me personally, the happier I was at my job, the more involved I was in being proud of what I had to contribute and being proud in seeing the company do well, and to me, that was when I was happiest, and that's how I want my employees to be. I want them to be happy to watch us grow together and to be proud to be part of that vision, and a lot of that absolutely requires, number one, that I pay them fairly and give them bonuses for jobs well done, which I actually do to keep them motivated. And also very much what you said listen and be open for feedback, not just giving orders or saying here, do this, but listening to them if they're inspired and motivated to want to help grow the business.  08:41 And I'm so fortunate to have a wonderful team that works with me that I think I can proudly say that I have had two people that have worked for me for over five years, if not coming up on eight to 10 years of working with me. So I needed to every year make sure that I was keeping them inspired and motivated and happy and giving them compensation when they're due, Like I'll give them. Oh, you know what I really appreciate that job that you did. Here's a $100 Amazon gift certificate, and that also requires, when you're an employer, you have to be comfortable with paying people. I mean, I think there's a whole mental thing about that, right. It's like, oh my God, you have to be confident enough in your business so that you're not worried about money all the time. Have that confidence, right, I will have the money to pay. And you have to secure those systems in place, right, so that you can pay.  09:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, I mean it can be for some VO bosses out there like a one-time thing. I have this one task and that make it a contract thing and once it's done, it's done. But when we're talking about having assistance or help, that is helping on an ongoing basis. That means ongoing pay. And, to your point, when I was working in the corporate world, to be honest with you, I was happiest when I was making the type of money that would allow me to live the life that I wanted to live.  10:02 And I wasn't really thrilled about anything else other than how it affected my life. And money affects my life in so many different ways.  10:11 So it's really just making sure that you can keep people fair in their compensation, but also make sure that you're paying on time oh yeah, I like to get paid on time for the work that I've done. And making sure that you can pay on time and to your point, it's making sure that you have the resources and the money and the revenue coming into your business, that paying your assistance is not a monthly freak out moment.  10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly that's so, so important. Yeah, I like how you said that, yes, it was all about like money was something that made you comfortable, right, that you were being paid and being compensated on time, to the point where that's what made you want to work for that company, being paid well. And also, I will say back in my younger days, I was being paid well and I had the bonus that I was really proud of how I was contributing to the company and I really believed in the company. So that was like such an added bonus and actually I think that it really set a lot for like why I was in the career I was in for that length of time because I was happy, both compensation-wise and also like motivation-wise and purpose-wise. So I do feel that when you have assistants, if you want to, let's say, have them for any period of time, maybe you're just hiring them for one job and it's one and done. But if you do want to have them on an ongoing basis, there's also a whole relationship that becomes important for you to develop with them so that they look forward to doing whatever they're doing for you and it's not just a boring job that doesn't give them any joy. So whatever you can do to make that joyful for them and make them want to continue to work for you and want to continue to grow the business Financially wise.  11:55 It is a thing that I do every month. I have them send me invoices and I have different people that I pay at different times of the month, and so I want to make sure that I'm paying them in a way that I'm not like PayPal, where fees get taken out, so it's pretty much bank to bank sort of transaction wise. And when I do that, also it's important to have my accountant who knows what I'm paying, because technically speaking, right and we were just talking about this earlier If I pay over a certain amount to someone, I do need to declare that on my taxes. So having a good bookkeeper slash accountant that can understand, okay, this money is being used to pay my employees.  12:37 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and we talked about this earlier how does your bookkeeper or accountant account for the services that's happening? So these are business expenses, these are business services that they are providing, and you are paying for the service of having someone you know run your business.  12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like a vendor. Can you really say they're an employee if they're an independent contractor? Not really right, because independent contractor is more like a vendor. For you, sure, and for, I think, most of us. For me, that's what it is. I don't actually employ someone where I'm paying health benefits or anything like that. So, I want to make that distinction where I'm not that type of corporation where I'm paying somebody full time and they're getting health benefits, I'm paying an independent contractor, but I still also have to account for that to the IRS.  13:23 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and most VO bosses will probably find themselves in a similar position. I also have essentially a vendor, a contractor, who I'm not paying their health insurance and pension and things like that, as we did when we were working in the corporate world. So it's a different distinction. But it also requires the level of bookkeeping and making sure that you know how much you've paid them throughout the course of the year so that you can get them the correct tax form at the end of the year. And that means working with an accountant or working with a financial professional who can help you do that, unless you feel super confident in doing it yourself. But if you're running a business, in my opinion, and you are paying someone to help you run your business, another part of that is paying someone to help you keep track of the finances of your business.  14:10 It all works together.  14:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I do think that ongoing education for your contractors or employers is important. Oh yeah, in terms of, first of all, I make sure that I meet with my people, at least my assistants that do the majority of, let's say, my social media work or marketing work, that sort of thing. I make sure that we meet once a week actually, and that works for us in our business. But I don't necessarily meet with my audio editor at all. That's usually done through email and then after a month's worth of podcast audio editing he'll send me an invoice.  14:42 But anybody that's doing work for me that requires a little bit more than just audio editing. That might require helping me grow my business out there on social media, which I think is important that they know me and they know what I'm looking for and that I can specify that. And I don't like to micromanage at all because, frankly, I'm busy and so it takes some time to get the right employee right that you trust to handle things A control freak like me. In case anybody didn't realize that you know, A-type personality.  15:17 For me to give up power and just say go ahead, please do this for me and be okay with that was a big step for me as an employer, because I'm very much a control freak. I very much said, well, I can't hire somebody to do it because they're not going to do it as well as I do. Yeah, exactly, and you have to give up. That's a big mental aspect. You have to give that up because there are people who are better than you at certain things. And why not, right, hire someone like we talked about with a financial accountant or bookkeeper? Right, why not hire somebody that that's what they love to do and that's all they do? I want people that are better than me doing things for my business to grow my business. So you've got to give up that ego, the fact that nobody but you can do it. Right, you have to really place trust in your employees, because when you do that and you hire people that are better than you, that's what's going to grow your business.  16:09 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Oh, absolutely, and a huge part of that is communication. As you said, you meet with your team once a week. I also have a weekly In person.  16:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, not in person, I shouldn't say on Zoom.  16:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) On Zoom.  16:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like a Zoom. I don't just text back and forth. Although I do text a lot of times, but-.  16:24 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Right.  16:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We meet on a Zoom meeting. On a Zoom meeting.  16:26 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I also with my assistant. We meet once a week on a Zoom call and then we use Slack to communicate. We communicate via Slack every single day and at the end of our meetings I always say, if you need anything, I'll be in Slack. I mean, it's the way to get to me as quickly as possible. I love Slack.  16:42 Yeah we talk every single day and the more communication actually the better, because then that person gets to know you and they can kind of hear your voice and your tone of voice and how you're wanting things done. They get to know your style, how you give feedback. That open communication actually really just helps person to person. You're dealing with, in some ways, hopefully a human being who can really start to craft what they do to who you are, because this is a brand about your personality, about your voice, about your style so it's huge.  17:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I really do feel that I make it a point to express my appreciation frequently to my assistants, because they're like my right-hand people in reality and I'm always like, oh God, I appreciate you guys, thank you so much. I'm always making sure to do that because, again, I want them to feel appreciated. A thank you goes a long way to really having employees work their best for you, which is what you want. I mean, you're investing money in your employees as well as your business, right? So you want to make sure that your investment is going to pay off for you. And now here's the question what if you hire someone that is not necessarily working out well for you? What are your best tips for that? Because that's happened to me too, and that's not always easy as a boss to fire someone.  17:56 - Danielle Famble (Guest) It is not always easy. It is a very real possibility. Whenever you bring anyone into your business as a contractor, as a one-time gig work, whatever, whenever you bring someone in, it's very real possibility that it doesn't work. So I think, before you bring that person in, have a very clear understanding, write it down. I would even say with what it is that you are looking for, what are the checks and how do you know if this person is working or not working.  18:22 Have the metrics so that you can say hey, this is what I'm hoping to accomplish, this is what I need, and you know if that person has it or not.  18:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and you bring up a really good point, because when you say, write it down, so everybody that works for me has to sign an.  18:40 NDA right Number one and they have a contract Like I have a statement of work, here's what I expect, here's what you'll be paid, here are like the terms, and you can actually create that NDA or that contract fairly simply.  18:54 I have a lawyer that I hire all the time, but there are templates out all over the place, but that kind of keeps me I feel legally secure, so that, let's say, I'm discussing something about growing my business, that I don't want them to go out and then implement, which is always like an issue when you hire people within the same industry, because if they work for you and then you discuss ideas like here's how I want to grow my business, what's to stop them from necessarily taking those ideas and implementing for their own business? And sometimes I'm not saying that I'm completely possessive, but there were cases. A long time ago, I hired somebody to work on development of this podcast and there were a lot of ideas that were flying around about how to grow which then, after the person did not work out for me, ended up somehow being implemented by them. And so that's just one of those things. I think. To safeguard your own business and your personal brand, you need to have a contract in place.  19:50 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Absolutely. I think having a contract in place again, this is, you're running a business and so doing the things that businesses do to keep themselves safe. Contracts are a huge part of it. Ndas are a huge part of it. Sometimes I have to sign an NDA in order to audition.  20:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah exactly.  20:06 - Danielle Famble (Guest) There needs to be that sort of level of secrecy and security. So that's incredibly important and making sure that the person understands why and understands what they're assigning is incredibly important as well. So there are so many layers to it, not just oh, I need help with my marketing, let me just bring somebody in. It goes deeper than that and to your point of if it doesn't work out, have the off-ramp. How do you offload this person from your business? How do you off-board them? And understanding, like, what does that look like? And it needs to take time.  20:39 But before you get to that point, I would ask the VO boss themselves if it didn't work out, why? If it's a personality thing, completely understand that happens too, because personality traits if you're working with someone, you need to be able to work with that person. But if it didn't work out because they weren't doing things correctly, did you train them correctly? Really understanding, like your role in it? Because, as the boss, it is your responsibility to make sure that you are running the business, your business the way that you want it to be run, and it needs to be run If the people that you've brought into your business are not living up to your expectations. Did you set the right expectations, did you communicate those expectations to them, did you provide feedback on those expectations and then did you give consequences for what is going to happen if those expectations are not met?  21:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean that is employer 101 right there. Absolutely, and that's covering yourself, and you want to make sure that you've covered yourself because your assistants have potential access to your life. I mean a lot of times like they'll have passwords to social media accounts. My accountant has the password to my QuickBooks. I mean my gosh.  21:48 Essentially, that could be very damaging if that person was not ethical right, and so there's a lot at stake for you. Passwords, personal accounts, branding, I mean just so many things that you're going to entrust them with. And I realize that, as an employer, again, as I said, if you're that type of person that says I'm the only one that can do it correctly or I'm worried about that, that is a mental thing that you will have to step back and take a look at. If you want to hire somebody and make sure that, if that is the case now, you want to make sure that you're protected, and so that requires NDAs, that requires contracts, and again, mine were not difficult. A consult with a lawyer that had me fine tune. A template for a contract for working for me worked, and all I have to do when I hire somebody else is just change the amount they're getting paid and change the name and change the address and then have them sign it before you start giving them access to your life and your business, because that is sacred to you.  22:44 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, and it's a vulnerable thing, like you are putting yourself knowingly in a vulnerable position where other people know intimate details about your life and your business.  22:56 - Intro (Announcement) However, large or small you?  22:58 - Danielle Famble (Guest) want to give out that information and if you are not prepared for that mentally going into it, it's a really hard transition to make when that person is actually there. I would say really ask yourself are you mentally prepared to be a boss of other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that other people? Are you financially prepared to pay them and the finances not be a thing that stresses you out, Because this entire process is quite a lot and are you ready to manage? Are you ready to share your vision and make sure that your vision is being executed by other people, that's not just you. All good stuff.  23:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And in the end, guys, I promise you, it may be scary, it's worth it but.  23:38 I'll tell you what it's worth it, and it's the only way, I believe, that I could have grown my business to the point that it has grown and to allow me the freedom. I'm a little bit of a serial entrepreneur and I think, danielle, you probably are too, and so it's been the only way that I've been able to really do the things that I want to do in my businesses, to progress and move forward, and it's taught me a lot. Being a VO boss number one just in my voiceover career, but also being an actual boss, has taught me so much about myself and helped me to grow personally as well as professionally. So I think it's a win-win. It's a challenge and it's scary, but it's so worth it, oh man.  24:19 - Danielle Famble (Guest) I couldn't agree more. You learn so much about yourself when you are now responsible for other people. I'm not a parent, but I can imagine there's a very humbling sense when you become a parent, that you are now responsible for this other person and you have to think about yourself and them in a different way. Similarly with business, you learn so much about yourself, your capacity to lead, your desire to lead, your generosity, all of those things when you have someone else that you are bringing into this thing that you created your business. It is a journey. You'll run into adversity, you will have to figure it out, and then you learn about yourself how you're able to do that. And once you learn those things about yourself, the next hurdle may be just around the corner, but you know that you've been able to do it in the past. So that resilience, really that muscle builds up. It's totally worth it. I would not be able to have the business that I have if I was responsible for doing everything. You can only do so much with the amount of time.  25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're only one person. You have only so many hours exactly in the day. So, oh, I love this conversation. Thank you so much, Danielle.  25:28 - Danielle Famble (Guest) Yeah, this is great, I love it.  25:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For having this conversation with me. Bosses, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too can be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:44 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we dive into Anne's enlightening experience at the Podcast Movement conference in Washington, DC. Discover the critical lessons Anne learned by stepping out of the voiceover industry bubble and mingling with top podcasters and corporate reps. The BOSSES tackle the complexities of measuring podcast success, the evolving role of advertisements, and the innovative strategies that can set your podcast apart. Passion and authenticity are at the heart of this episode as we explore how genuine storytelling can elevate both podcasting and voice acting careers. Learn why being relatable and embracing video content is more important than ever for voice actors. Consistency and authenticity are key, and we provide practical tips for maintaining a successful show. Finally, we wrap up with advice on continuous personal and professional development, reminding you to stay proactive and always seek growth opportunities. 00:02 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) Hi, this is Bonnie Marie Williams, and I was listening to VOBoss for years before I began working on the show. It was actually the first voiceover podcast I ever heard and I absolutely fell in love with it the energy, the humor and how much information it provides to the voiceover community. But what I love most about VOBoss is how it takes on the current topics in the industry, how it discusses things we really should be talking about, all of the positivity and how much time and energy Ann devotes to the show to make it so valuable for all of us. I mean, we just want to rock our businesses like a boss, right? So, ann, thank you for bringing me into the boss family and for all you do for bosses everywhere.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, Through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com.  01:17 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am delighted to be here and it seems like it's been forever with my bestie, Lau Lapides. Hey Lau, how are you?  01:52 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Hey, annie, it has been forever. It's been, I don't know, two months or whatever. It's been, but two months for us is like two years.  02:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So much happens. It's been too long. I mean, a lot of things have been happening. I just got back from podcast movement in DC and I had a really good experience there that I wanted to share some takeaways if you didn't mind.  02:15 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Actually, that's cool. I was going to ask you about that because so many of us and certainly us as talent as well are doing podcasts or want to do podcasts, and that kind of a movement is something we want to know about. So, please, sharing is caring.  02:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had a lot of takeaways. Number one was, first and foremost, it was so nice for me to get outside of my bubble, outside of my studio bubble, my dealing with voice talent, voice actors and people in the industry. Not that I don't love dealing with people in the industry, but actually going to a conference and immersing myself into a marketplace where I want to sell to right, because there are podcasters here, which, yeah, of course, I have some podcast consulting services, of course, but I mean that wasn't my primary purpose. My primary purpose was to mingle with the corporates, because, guess what, everything I do voiceover right, corporate narration, commercial all of this really directs itself to that market. And it's so nice to be able to immerse yourself in that market and just, hey guys, this might be a novel idea, but just listen, right, listen to what your potential clients need, what are their problems, what sort of frustrations are they experiencing and how can you, with your voice or your voiceover product, help them?  03:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) them. Annie, can you give us the infrastructure of it, because I don't know about that particular world in terms of what a trade show or a convention would look like for podcasters. What did it look like? How many folks were there? How long was it? Did you meet any like top level podcasters who we need to know about? Oh, yeah, I did.  04:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I met celebrities. There's like celebrity podcasters the Diary of a CEO those of you that listen to podcasts. I met the scrappy podcaster. I met the guy who actually, you know, is in all the videos for Riverside too. So the conference was four days long and it was in DC, and this one in particular, it was a little bit more corporate centric. I go to two of them every year.  04:23 The other one is PodFest, which is very much creatives like ourselves, independent creatives, a lot of hey, I've got this show and how can I make money with this show? That's really like the question on everybody's mind and I know that anybody who's ever asked me about podcasting is like, well, how can I make money? And I'm always like, well, don't bank on that right away or don't depend on that, because it is a passion project for the most part. But this show had a little more of a corporate audience, a lot of those people that are really looking to try to get an ROI, not just from the podcast but about advertising, advertisements on podcasts and those of you that listen to the VO Boss podcast know that very recently I've been actually adding some advertisements on for my own business. Now we've been doing the VO Boss podcast for about eight years and I thought well gosh, maybe it's time that I do one or two. One or two, I mean you know you guys listen to my podcast.  05:17 I can tell you, hey, look, I also offer these things, but it's all about how do you measure success of a podcast. How do you measure if you have ads running in your podcast? Are they effective? Are people listening to the ads or are they fast forwarding through the ads? And so the overall feel that I got from the conference is that there's so many different platforms right now there's. You know how do you listen to your podcast? Is it on Apple podcast, is it on Spotify, is it on YouTube?  05:43 And they all have their own measurements, their own stats, and so what advertisers want to know is how many people are listening to your podcast, and sometimes that's really difficult to tell unless you have the statistics. And then these statistics don't all come together so that you can say, overall I have 1 million downloads, or I know from my service provider, my RSS feed provider, how many downloads I have, and that can give you a fairly decent number. But again, they've changed the way that they've measured those stats as well. So a lot of times the corporations or the people that are advertising want to know how can I get ROI on this investment if I'm going to spend money for ads and the other thing which is really important is that there's a lot of people that do ads on podcasts and they sound very different from the podcast, right, because we've got you and me just bantering back and forth and then all of a sudden they've got hey, it's allergy season.  06:38 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) What happens?  06:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is, the podcast host doesn't necessarily do voiceover for a living, so what they might read might sound a little stilted, so that was really interesting to understand that. Okay, I understand how I might be able to serve them by doing ads or by helping them do their ads better, that kind of a thing, but it was really wonderful to just sit and listen and learn oh my gosh for four days all about the things that I've been doing for eight years on this podcast, and a lot of it was very validating.  07:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And now the one you went to was in DC. Right, that sounds like a really large a really big one. Did you find that there were people that you could meet? That really helped you understand the road to sponsorship? And the understanding of, like, how you sell ads and how you get into that place because I think that's where a lot of early entry podcasters fall down is like they can create a great program and they can get it launched and it sounds terrific, but what happens next?  07:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the thing is is that you really need listenership, you really need people who follow. I mean, everybody refers to Joe Rogan, right? Of course, if you're an advertiser, you want to advertise on Joe Rogan's, but when you're first starting out, you need to first of all make sure that your content if you have a podcast and I think every voice talent should have a podcast, because, gosh, we're equipped for it, we have like really great sound already, and so it just makes sense that if you are a voice actor, it doesn't cost you anything necessarily except for your time right now. If you have a passion, talk about that. I mean, over and over and over again, what I heard as the theme is that podcasters are storytellers and guess what, so are voice actors. Yes, so if you have a topic that you're passionate about, I think you can start a podcast on.  08:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I mean it doesn't have to be about voiceover. Now, when you go into podcasting because I've been doing podcasting for a number of years as well the question is you go into it because you love it, you have a passion for it, you want to educate, you want to tell a story, mm-hmm. But how do people know when and if they're ready to monetize? That's a big question. I think in the podcast world, absolutely, you've been doing it for eight years.  08:46 That's a long time to do a podcast while you're running a business and while you're doing everything in your life yeah. So when and if you should monetize how that happens.  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you know, that's a really great question and that is, like I swear it's the question on everybody's mind, even at this conference, like how do you monetize? I mean, what are the questions that get answered right in podcast? What are the big questions of the day? The big question is how do I know who's listening? Right? How do I track my downloads? How do I grow my podcast? That's the other question, asking the same questions, right, because it is such a popular medium.  09:23 When you get somebody like I'm going to say, joe Rogan or any of the more celebrity podcasts where you get a lot of people's ears right, listening, that is an opportunity to sell and so, while the logistics aren't necessarily quite there yet, you have to showcase that number one. You've got listenership. You've got listenership, you've got a following. Now VO Boss has a following, and it's a very faithful following, because, for me, when I was telling people about my podcast, I would say, okay, I have been a podcast for eight years and while my numbers may not be, I do have close to a million downloads. I mean very close to it.  09:57 Actually, I haven't looked in the last few months, so I probably have a million downloads, but it's over a course of time, right, and so what advertisers want to know is how many downloads per episode are you getting, and that kind of gives them an idea of how many ears they have listening to their potential ads. And then, of course, it has to be on the effectiveness of the ad, and I had an interview with Steve Pogac, who is with SiriusXM and Pandora, talking about podcast ads. It's kind of the new area where advertisers are really interested because they've got potential ears to do the selling. Again, it's just you've got to be able to prove to those advertisers that you have downloads, and so right now you have to use the methods that are with you. I mean, there are separate methods. Apple has their own stats, spotify has their own stats, youtube- has their own stats.  10:46 And what's interesting is that while we're doing this now on video right, whereas before we were strictly audio we're now also on video. So it's kind of like, well, let's use YouTube and put shorts out there, which is it was good, that was validation for me I heard that again and again was to use YouTube for shorts to kind of draw your audience into the audio podcast.  11:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that when you think about like discussion about synthetic voices.  11:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, we're in the wild wild west. Well, guess what? We're in the wild wild west of advertising and podcasting. Right, and seeing if podcasting is a popular medium, we know about that. We know that as voice actors we are primed to be great podcasters, because we've got the technical worked out already for the most part. Right, we've got the technical. And if you've studied enough, you know how to storytell. You know how to storytell, you can certainly transition to any kind of ads really well. And of course, there's the other thing. Law and I know you'll like this is that there's a lot of ads that are done with improv. Celebrity endorsements do a ton of improv while they're doing the advertisements.  11:46 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Isn't that cool.  11:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There's another skill that voice actors have, so it really translates well and, if nothing else, right. It costs you your time and, as you and I have discovered, right and I've discovered, after eight years of having this podcast and you since you've come on with me, people now say oh my gosh, I love listening to you guys.  12:06 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Right.  12:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like they met you by listening to you on the podcast. That's absolutely a way to reach out to potential clients or potential people, no question.  12:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Fantastic and I can say personally that you know, in the last two years, or however long we've been working together on the podcast, god, how long has it been? Almost two years, I think.  12:23 It might be longer when I'm flying around and people come up to me and say I love your podcast. For a second I'm like, oh, the VO boss. They're like, yeah, you girls are great. It's a weird thing if you're not used to it, because there's that disconnect, there's that sense of disconnect from your audience that you know the audience is there, you see them, they're there, but if you're not meeting them, yeah and you don't know them, you may not hear back from them, the feedback you may not hear back from them.  12:53 It's really incredible.  12:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the engagement. A lot of it was talking about engagement and again, so many parallels to voice so many parallels so many parallels. You have to engage your audience and I'm going to tell you. One of the things about podcasting is that we engage people through audio right and or video, if people are watching us, if they like to see the two of us talk to each other. It's all about engaging and being interesting, and it's either educational or it's entertaining, right? No?  13:20 - Intro (Announcement) question Whenever.  13:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was watching a presentation on the stage with any well-known podcaster when they were speaking about that podcast, it was all about their storytelling and it was all about how it was their passion to talk about a particular subject, something that they loved, they were passionate about, and that's what caused and everybody's like.  13:40 Well, how do you go viral? Right, I mean, there is no magic solution to going viral. I think a lot of it is being engaging right with your audience, and then you got to get it in front of your audience's eyes, very similar to our own businesses, right? So how do you grow your podcast audience the same way you grow your business and voice acting? Right, you've got to get yourself in front of the eyes of your potential clients or your potential listeners. So it was really so wonderful to be validated in so many different areas, because a lot of times, like you said, we're podcasting out into the air and I don't always hear anything about it unless I speak to someone and they say, oh my God, I love your podcast or I love what you said about this.  14:19 And what's really cool is then you get the benefit, you reap the rewards of being an instrument and being able to hopefully motivate and inspire somebody.  14:28 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's incredible and you and I we get letters like all the time, literally every single month, that says I just want to let you know that I can't get in my booth on a Saturday morning without listening to the podcast and hearing your motivation and hearing what you have to say and on the most literal basis, you don't realize what kind of impact you can make on someone's life by just speaking and speaking a truth and speaking an experience that is maybe common to their experience, or maybe the next level to their experience, when they're stuck and they don't know where to go.  15:04 It's incredibly powerful and I'm just honored to be a part of that. But I think you scared a lot of people when you said, or reminded us because this is not a new thing that we're also on video too. We're also on camera as well, because a lot of voiceover talent traditionally went into voiceover so that they wouldn't be on camera. They say, with all due respect, I don't want to put makeup on, I don't want to look good, I've got the face for radio.  15:28 - Bonnie Marie Williams (Ad) I don't want to look good, right.  15:29 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And I said no, no, you can't look at it that way any longer, because you've got to market your business, your podcast, your voice, and you have to do that on video now.  15:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you think about it and this is the trend, right, also, like on camera work, right, it's not about you don't have to be beautiful and young and pretty and handsome anymore.  15:47 It's all about authenticity, it's all about being able to engage with your audience, and so we invite right the perfectly imperfect, perfectly imperfect I want to hear and see like imperfections, because I know that I'm not alone, right, when that happens, and that's for on camera, that's for audio, that's all of that Just being able to be authentic and really communicate and reach out to your audience, just like we have to do being voice actors. It's becoming more and more and more prevalent every day. That that's really what we have to do, I mean, and that's what we like, I mean as humans, like, why do you think reality shows became so popular? I mean, it wasn't about the perfection of people on a sitcom or a drama or you know, it was real people and we're real people and we can talk about real things, and so if you guys are thinking about a podcast, please gosh don't.  16:41 We don't need another voiceover podcast, I don't know Exactly.  16:45 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Talk about something that you're passionate about, that you can engage with other people, and it shouldn't be any surprise that, you know, when we're auditioning as voiceover talent and we see that breakdown of relatable and real and conversational. Well, that's what we want to see as well.  17:02 If we're seeing the visual of you. We don't want to see you on as the 70s announcer, nor do we want to see you on as the supermodel of the 80s or 90s. Really, the real person works more often as an actor and talent than the aesthetically beautiful person according to the industry, and gets cast more often because it really represents the demographic of the people.  17:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure Right. It cuts through the chaos of something being like anticipated or expected or stereotypical right.  17:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) There's an empathy factor too. I mean, I want to see someone who kind of is me. There's a deeply psychological aspect to everything we see and hear in entertainment. I would gather that a lot of folks and I ask them. When they talk to me about your podcast, I say why do you like it? Why do you follow it? What is it doing for you? They say I feel like you are me, I feel like you understand me, I feel like you're almost in my head, Right Like the voice in my head, and I think, oh, that's a lot of responsibility. I better be careful what I say. Isn't that true? It is true when you talk about influencers.  18:13 I always think of the influencer as like the young Gen Z or the young, young millennial who's on social media, but that's really not true. The influencer is anyone right who is out there in the public square and really is connecting to their audience. They can have very powerful influence, positive and negative. So be careful what you say, be careful how you present yourself, be careful and just be thoughtful about it, because you can impact a lot of people. Now, from a marketing perspective, that's great, because for the people that don't know anything about marketing or are a little scared of it, you know you can have a huge influence on people just by being visible.  18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, and it just amazed me the amount of parallels. You think I would have figured this out by now, but it was good reinforcement as I went to this conference. So I highly highly encourage you, if you can get out there, listen, find the people that you're trying to sell to, if you can get to a conference. Conferences are great because I had presentations to go to and I also had vendor booths that I could visit, right, and so the interaction. I really listened to the interactions in both instances and I noticed that when people were on stage talking about something they were passionate about, you know, I have this little pet peeve about millennials have a potential to upspeak and I'm always telling people when we're doing corporate please don't upspeak, because it makes you sound a little less confident, and I want you to be confident about your product. So, when there was the occasion for me to go to a booth and speak to someone about their product, right, and I encountered a millennial, yes, upspeak is alive and well. However, when that same millennial was up on stage and this happened on more than one occasion, right, no matter who was up on stage talking, discussing, interviewing, interacting and speaking about their passion there was absolutely no up speak. Maybe once in a while there was one word or two, but nothing that was consistent, Because I think it presented a different kind of situation and I think that as actors we need to always read those situations, like, perhaps for a commercial, you're going to have that kind of casual engagement where upspeak is absolutely desired, but maybe in another instance you need to sound more authoritative about that product or confident that you're sure that it's going to help someone and therefore maybe upspeak isn't as appropriate.  20:35 So that was just an interesting little tidbit and, trust me, I listen really hard because, you know, I'm a coach, I want to be a better coach and so I want to be able to communicate with my potential client better. So first and foremost is listen. And you guys, even if you can't get to a conference, you can do this online, right, you can join groups that are not necessarily just voiceover groups. You can join e-learning groups, you can join a company newsletter, look at how the company talks to their potential clients, and then you can just really learn about in what situation and how you might talk, the tone of voice that you might use, the emotion that goes along with it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a quirky brand that has a little bit of humor in it. It could be for a brand that's a little more serious and a little more formal, a little more suit and tie kind of thing, and you adjust your performance accordingly.  21:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Now, you were talking earlier to me, before we started recording about at the podcast forum. They were talking about memberships and I thought that was very fascinating, thinking about creating content and how you can get your subscription base or membership base going with supplying that content. What did you learn from that one? What did you take away on that?  21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) one. So that was advertisers, who again were looking to monetize, right, and so until they felt that people have the capability of fast-forwarding through an ad that might be on the podcast, However, if they need to subscribe or have a membership in order to get to that content, if let's say the content is valuable and it's something I've thought about doing for VIA Boss having a certain amount of episodes that are bonus content, which then help fund the cost, because, as we know, and as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our and, as I've spoken about multiple times, this does not run itself. I mean you and I, you know it takes our time. And then I literally have a team of people that help me to distribute this podcast and put show notes up there, to advertise it on social media. There's just lots and lots of components to the spokes in the wheel, whatever you might call it, but there's a lot of things at play here and it's not free.  22:34 So it's helpful to be able to recoup some of those costs and even monetize the living, make a little bit of money, because I mean, this is our time and we do talk about all the time. Law right, we need to charge what we're worth. If somebody said to me well, do you feel bad charging for a podcast when most people can listen for free? Well, you know, honestly, I've been doing it for eight years. I've given over 400 episodes for free. To be quite honest, if somebody wanted to donate three to five dollars, maybe a month.  23:04 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I don't think that's unreasonable, I think it's fantastic. I think it's a great idea and makes total, total sense. I have a feeling that's something that a lot of podcasters are going to be doing. They're going to be interested in doing that, mm hmm, because no one really realizes except for you, annie, how much goes into it until they start doing it.  23:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Until they do it.  23:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh, I'll just talk. You know it's the old voiceover, read a paper and talk, but they don't really realize to produce something, yeah, something of value, something specific, something that has guests, something that has planning. Producing engineering it costs, it's an investment. Yeah, engineering it costs, it's an investment?  23:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely. And getting yourself out of your bubble and going out and really researching the market in which you want to sell, I think is so, so, very helpful for our businesses so that we can grow and serve those businesses and voice acting. This whole industry is evolving, like as we speak, minute by minute. Things are happening on the AI and synthetic end of things in the market. The economy has a lot to do with it and we really need to understand what's happening out there and evolve along with what our clients are asking for so that we can serve them better, because we can have a great voice. But if we don't know how to serve somebody with that voice or how to help them solve their problems, then we kind of sit here just having a great voice, exactly.  24:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Which is great.  24:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you know, then you and I can just talk with our great voices, but it may not get us anywhere. It may not pay the bills Very true, In which case? By the way, even if you don't get advertisers right away in your podcast, the fact remains that you are putting yourself out there, you're putting your brand out there, and that is a form of marketing all in of itself.  24:42 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do you have tips, annie, for people who want to either start a podcast or who are early like within the first year of doing their podcast of what they should be thinking about or be planning for, so that they don't fall into any holes along the way?  24:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a great question. The one thing that you absolutely have to be concrete on right now is kind of like your why, like why do you want a podcast and what is your topic and is it something that you can sustain? Because consistency once you get people who start listening, they expect consistency. It's like look on my run every morning I want to be able to turn on the latest podcast of right, or I want to be able to. It becomes a thing. So content creators, like everywhere, know how it's difficult to create content. It takes a lot of time.  25:29 So figure out what it is that you want to talk about, what it is that you can consistently deliver on a regular basis to an audience. And one thing I definitely found out is that these kind of serial podcasts that only have like six to eight episodes they don't do well. They don't do well with advertisers. Advertisers don't want to invest in that because they can't expect a great return on investment. It's got to be something where your audience can grow, where you can continue to get the ear of the listener, and so really try to find your why. Try to find whatever it is that you want to talk about and then be consistent about it Now. You don't have to hire out like I do right now for my podcast. I mean, I did everything on my own to begin with, and so you can start simple and commit to what you can do and make it a priority that you deliver consistently, consistently, consistently.  26:22 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Love that. So it doesn't have to be constant, it's just consistent, yeah, absolutely, which makes a lot of sense. And being authentic, yeah, and really caring about what your audience cares, about the pain points they have, what problems they have to solve and connect to Right. And also I would add into that that like what style you want that podcast to be in Do you?  26:43 want to have a lot of humor. Is it very serious? Is it meditative, is it calming, like, think about the kind of style that you want to have, and are you having guests on, or is it really you speaking from your point of view? I mean, these are just kind of basic things that we have to be thinking about it from the beginning. Also, how long Like you and I are really consistent about our time, we typically go about 25 minutes per episode.  27:08 Like how long can you talk? How long do you want to speak about your?  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) topic. I mean, gosh, some are hours long. You know what I mean. Some of the best video ones are hours long where there's something visual to look at, and I think Joe Rogan's is, I don't know, an hour or two hours. I have not listened recently, but really I mean we try to keep ours. I think the stats say anywhere from about this time 30 minutes, but honestly, I think it depends on the content and what you're talking about and just really feel that out and try to make that consistent as well.  27:36 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Well, you know, thanks for bringing this to our attention, because this is a world. It's not a new world, but it's an ever-growing world. Yes, absolutely, and it's becoming complex and very nuanced. And it's something that a lot of talent of all different backgrounds really want to know about and want to be doing and be plugged into it.  27:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So this is kind of exciting news and I'm excited because I got another podcast that's formulating on the back end. So stay tuned, guys. Something new is coming along for me and I'm very excited. Probably be launching that sometime I don't know later this year, so look for that and I'm very excited.  28:10 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Keep growing, keep expanding, keep creating and keep developing that's really the name of the game, isn't it? Absolutely? Throughout your lifetime, Fabulous.  28:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thanks, law, good conversation. Thanks for asking me about it. I had a great experience and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  28:39 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

This episode is all about maximizing your business potential, whether you're just starting out or already established in the market.  Learn how to leverage casting platforms for direct bookings and master direct marketing strategies. This episode is packed with actionable insights to increase your return on investment. Implementing mid-year performance reviews can be a game-changer for your business, using powerful tools like cash flow spreadsheets and client churn reports to meticulously track your financials and client engagement. Discover the added value of integrating financial data to set and achieve your financial goals, ensuring sustained success. Explore how to turn one-off projects into recurring gigs and the crucial role of tracking booking sources. Learn how to use social media, direct emails, and client referrals to build a solid client base. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, who says marketing can't be as creative as voice acting? With a VO Boss Blast, we're proving it can be. Let us create a marketing campaign that helps get you hired. Our master list of over 90,000 creative contacts can get your message in front of your potential buyers. Find out more at vobosscom. That's the VO Boss Blast at voboss.com. That's the Voboss Blast at Voboss.com.  00:29 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a Voboss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the illustrious Mr Tom Dheere.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello, hello, oh, I'm illustrious now this is very exciting.  01:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You are illustrious, you are illustrious. Oh my gosh Tom, how's your week been?  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) My week's been. It's been pretty good. It's been pretty busy. It's one of those weird times of year this is early summer when we're recording this and people are at schools getting out and people are starting to figure out. You know they get their lighting up their vacations and all that stuff.  01:25 So you know, I'm using this time to capitalize on how I'm going to figure out what I'm going to be doing with the second half of my year, because I always, at the end of the halfway point of the year, I take a look at my voiceover business, see how it's doing, what's working and what isn't, and if I need to make any adjustments for the second half of the year.  01:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think that's an excellent idea because, as a matter of fact, I was just this week. I got an email from my email service provider who notified me that they were going to increase the cost of my yearly fee almost like one and a half times as much, and so I was like, oh, I've got to really sit back and take a look at my return on investment, and so I think that is something that bosses need to do absolutely to make sure that their businesses are on track and make sure that their growth is happening. And if it doesn't appear that it is happening, maybe how do you evaluate growth that can happen in the future?  02:17 - Tom Dheere (Host) So, yeah, Okay, so, oh, there's so much to talk about with this one. But, bosses, if there's one thing I want you to walk away with, is that the industry changes constantly. What used to work may not work as well as it used to, or it may not work at all anymore. In my 25 years of being in the voiceover industry, effectiveness is really the key to be a voice actor, and learning what it takes to become effective early in your journey as opposed to what's effective later on in your voiceover journey.  02:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like mailing CDs to potential clients. I just had to say that which I did, which I did.  02:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) So did I. Let me tell you, my post office hated me so much because I'd come in with a lawn bag of padded mailers and they'd be like oh.  03:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I used to have to walk to my voiceover studio for 10 miles in the snow.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sorry, Uphill both ways.  03:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Uphill Anyways. So yeah, how do we determine how effective our businesses are and how do we strategize moving forward?  03:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. The ultimate determiner is like how much money am I making? And it's like, okay, did I make more money than I did last year or week or quarter? So that's obviously an indicator. But that's a very broad brushstroke because, like I've noticed over the years, because I track my voiceover revenue meticulously, gig to gig, Doesn't surprise me, Tom. I know right. Not surprising that the VO strategist meticulously tracks his voiceover revenue.  03:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. Well, me too, but I have my accountant that has probably more of a hand in it than me, and then she'll report to me if I need to know things.  03:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So one thing I do like to do what's called a client churn report. So basically I look at the end of every quarter, I look at how many gigs did I have, how much money did I make, how many of them were from new clients, how many of them were from return clients, and then I look at the same quarter from the previous year to see if the amount of money new clients and old clients went up, went down or stayed the same.  04:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you what are you recording that data into? Do you have?  04:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) a CRM Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a?  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) CRM. Do you have a CRM? Okay, okay, I was going to say do you have a CRM or do you have a spreadsheet?  04:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) That I do in a spreadsheet because I have a cash flow spreadsheet which tracks every penny that goes into my voiceover business and every penny, that goes out of my voiceover business. It's a free download at voestrategistcom. You can just type in free in the search bar and you can find it and download it. It and you can find it and download it. It also helps you run reports. It's got little auto sums and I've got little formulas in there so it can help track your stuff.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's awesome, tom, and can that be integrated? Like would I be able to export reports from my QuickBooks and be able to import, do you think into that's a?  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) great question. It may require some reformatting.  04:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Finagling.  05:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) And a little finagling, but actually I'm so glad this came up. When it comes to analyzing your voiceover business, that cash flow spreadsheet does so many things. It tracks all the money that I make. I also list all of my revenue and expense goals for the month, the quarter and the year. But here's the other fun thing that it does I have little columns where I have little codes. So, for example, there are three what I call portals in the voiceover industry. I'm sure I've talked about this before Representation, online casting sites and self-marketing which includes inbound and outbound marketing.  05:34 So every time I book a voiceover gig, in that column I write down whether it was RE, which it was a gig I booked through my representation, if it's OC, through an online casting site, either free or pay-to-play, like Voice123. And then the last one is S-M, or self-marketing, which means did it happen as a result of a cold call or a cold email, or indirect? Is it a result of someone finding me on Google?  05:59 Or was I referred to that client by a fellow voice actor or a fellow client, because I have clients who refer me to clients all the time and so whenever I type that in, there's a little section to the side of the spreadsheet that has, by revenue and by percentage, how much money I'm making based on the portal that I'm doing. It also does it for genre. I have a column for genres e-learning, commercial, industrial.  06:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, that's awesome. I love this. And you say that this is a free download.  06:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a free download, that's awesome, that's a great tracker. Yeah, because it lets me know just how I'm doing with the genre of voiceover, because you can break it down by genre and you can also break it down by portal. But I'm not getting all my e-learning through one portal and I'm not getting all my explainers through one portal.  06:44 Because sometimes I'll get an explainer through one of my reps. It's rare but it happens. But I'll get a lot of e-learning through online casting sites and self-marketing, so to be able to really look and see how my voiceover business is doing and be able to go to last year's spreadsheet and see how it's doing I love that, tom.  07:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you have a free resource. I have to. I'm sorry I didn't have to exclaim that and interrupt you and say that, because I will tell you that I created a spreadsheet myself when I started to track auditions, to track jobs that I booked. It is a thing you do have to remember to put the information in, but it was very, very valuable to find out and I'll tell you, I love a person who can really work a spreadsheet, because you've got it all figured out already, yeah, and you've got the columns there. I mean, bosses, take advantage of this. We're going to put a link in the show notes. Okay, continue, tom. I'm sorry.  07:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) I got so excited.  07:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I had to interrupt you.  07:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, yeah, I've been building this spreadsheet for 20 years.  07:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I think 2004,.  07:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) 2005 is when I first built this spreadsheet first built this spreadsheet, so I'm looking at it right now.  07:43 So yeah, genre so like. For example, so far this year, 23.8% of my voiceover revenue has come from e-learning. But also I do it as the VO strategist. So it also tells me how many 15 minute consults I've booked, how many one-on-one coaching sessions I've done, how many conference appearances, how many mentorship sessions, how many people bought my videos at the VO strategist. So I use it for both as a voice actor and both as the VO Strategist, because this is tracking all the money.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, good, I'm going to download it to track and ganguza business. However, I will say that there's reports that are generated off of QuickBooks or whatever your accounting software is, but I like that you have the added columns. Like I can't add a column in QuickBooks that says where did you book the job?  08:25 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I probably could, but I haven't done that that's why I stopped using all the accounting software in most of the CRMs, because it wasn't giving me the data that I need. Also this is a running total that I can see on my screen all at the same time. Here's another one no-transcript.  08:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody talks about that.  08:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) I believe it's one of the most useless data points there is, and here's the reason, and you know this.  09:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to agree with you, but I want to hear your reason.  09:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) The reason why is because the casting process is so random and arbitrary.  09:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because the best voice actor does not always get the gig, get the gig.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Host) And the best audition doesn't always get the gig. Like there's a great documentary called that Guy who was in that thing? And it's about 12 character actors in Hollywood and you know all their faces but you don't know any of their names and they talk about what it's like being a character actor on TV and film in Hollywood and one of them talks about the absurdity of the casting process and he says something like one week I'll get a gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  09:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then two weeks later, I won't get the gig because I remind the casting director of her brother-in-law.  09:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely so.  09:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) we have no earthly idea what the thought process is behind a voice seeker. There's another story of how a woman cast a male voice actor and she was asked why did you cast that person? And she said he sounds like my father.  10:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Mm-hmm.  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) And then, upon further conversation, she said I trust my father.  10:10 So, that means A I trust my father. B I want a trusting sound, for this voiceover equals C. I want someone to do this voiceover who sounds like my father Absolutely. But what if her father sounds like Gilbert Gottfried or Bobcat Goldthwait and they probably have kids? I know Gilbert Gottfried had kids, I don't know about Bobcat but and I'm sure if their children hear their voice it's a trusting I'm going to be okay, I'm safe. But that doesn't work for the rest of the universe.  10:40 Absolutely so, that's why that's kind of an absurd thing to analyze.  10:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I just want to tailgate off of that really quickly. I don't want to get off the track of what's my ROI. However, that's why you don't self-sabotage yourself if you thought, well, I did a great audition and I didn't book the gig, or I'm not good enough, don't let that feed into. I mean, of course, you want to be a great performer and a great actor. That always gives you, I think, the most competitive advantage. However, the casting process is wild and crazy, and anybody that's taken an audition demolition class with Law and myself we've done, I believe, six of them so far. By the way, you can check them out on the VO Boss YouTube channel if you want to watch one.  11:20 Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why you receive a job, and so I agree with you there that tracking that is not always going to give you the most useful information. However, I know people will be like, well, my booking ratio on Voice123 or my booking ratio on Voicescom. Again, in reality, all you can do, I think, is validate that you have ample opportunities, right, right, right. And within those opportunities, it would be nice if you, on average, booked a certain percentage, but again, I wouldn't let that dictate whether that is a good return on investment, would you agree?  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) It doesn't necessarily dictate your worth as a voice actor.  11:57 What it can dictate for the pay-to-play sites in particular, anne, is how effectively are you feeding the algorithms to give you the casting opportunities that you want, that you're right for, and are you effectively auditioning for the casting notices that those algorithms served up? So, with that in mind, I do track my booking ratio on Voice123. I have the $2,200 tier, so I have the second highest tier. So obviously I want to make sure there's a return on my investment. However, the number is skewed because I I'll give you a perfect example Two years ago on Voice123, I booked a gig.  12:34 I did an audition. It was for a grocery store chain doing an internal video about produce. I think it was about bananas. You know, like, if you work in their produce department, here's how to make sure the bananas, how not to bruise them, how to check them for quality, how to display them properly, how to rotate out bananas that are going to expire or whatever. And it was one gig $550 for like a three-minute in-house thing, directed session took all of 15 minutes. It's like okay, perfect. A month later they needed one on shrimp. A month later they needed one on avocados.  13:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did not audition for those. You didn't have to audition, but you got the job. Yes, right, the recurring client.  13:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) But if I wasn't on Voice123, I would not have gotten that casting opportunity.  13:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The majority of my work, too, is a lot of referral clients. Referrals and or clients that I got because I'm on pay-to-plays but not on a certain subscription level just because of my schedule, and so therefore I can't really count that. But I still get, believe it or not, if my profile is up there, every once in a while I will get a direct job, and then that client will come back.  13:35 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, right. So, with that in mind, on the spreadsheet, the cash flow spreadsheet, I do have a new column where I track audition bookings versus direct bookings.  13:45 Oh, okay, so audition bookings versus direct bookings. Oh okay. So how much did I get? Was this an audition and pray gig or was this a legacy client gig? So, just as an example as of this conversation, my direct booking percentage is 79% and my audition booking is 21%, which means roughly 80-20. Four out of every five bookings that I get, I didn't have to audition for them. Now, that is something that a lot of voice actors.  14:10 Yeah, that tells me something about my business model and it tells me about my effectiveness in marketing, about my effectiveness in auditioning and my effectiveness in client retention, because it's one thing to book a client once, it's another thing to book a client twice, and it's another thing to book a client a few times a year for years and I have a couple clients.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I have some clients I've worked with for decades, myself too, and I don't audition for them.  14:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Some of them I never auditioned for in the first place, I just sent them the demo and then they're like, okay, great, and they here's your first gig work, which is right, that's the best kind of client, isn't it? That's a regular client, the one that you don't have to market to or audition for. However, audition and pray, I think, should be part of a balanced breakfast of all voice actors, whether it's through their agents, or through a casting site, or whether it's through their marketing strategy.  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Agreed Because auditioning and pray I mean. First of all, it gets you exposed to potential new clients in a multitude of ways. Because, first of all, if the agent hears you continually submitting good auditions, they might refer you to someone or they might shortlist you. Even if the client doesn't pick you, or if the client hears the audition and they may not cast you this time, they may save you for a future casting or come back to you for a different casting.  15:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Here's another example. So for you VO bosses who have or are considering working with Anne, you decide you want to work with Anne. You want to get e-learning coaching. You may have been in the business for a little while. You may have gotten a smattering of e-learning gigs here and there, but now you want to really hunker down, get some quality training, get a quality demo, come up with a quality marketing strategy. So you work with Ann, you get your e-learning coaching, you produce a spectacular e-learning demo and then, of course, then we say Ann, what do I do now? And then she talks to you about marketing strategies. So you start to market that demo. The other thing you do is you put that demo on your website. So you come up with a marketing campaign. I'm going to put this demo on my website. I'm going to build a list of potential e-learning clients and if you have already done some e-learning work, it's supplemented by the work you've already gotten from existing e-learning clients and then you put it out there. Direct email.  16:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Direct email through a boss blast. Put it out there.  16:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Direct email, direct email through a boss blast or direct email for cold calling, exactly, posting it on social media, talking to people on LinkedIn, so on and so forth. That's where this spreadsheet and your analytics can be an extremely powerful tool, because you can decide all right, this e-learning marketing campaign is going to take one month, so the first of the month the page the e-learning landing page goes live, and then you start through the VO Boss Blast. You start scheduling and sending emails to potential current and past e-learning clients. You post content on social media, you do things on LinkedIn. Maybe you record a video on TikTok or Instagram or YouTube talking about the demo or your experience with Ann or any part of your journey which is a part of helping people see your humanity.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, with any good coach right, I will if you provide a testimonial page. I also put demos on my YouTube channel, so there's the marketing that happens through that as well. So you're getting potential opportunities as well as my own referrals to you.  17:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so you do all of that stuff and then at the end of the month, now you can figure out.  17:32 These are the analytics, so you can obviously go to your website, regardless of where the website was built. You should have some form of dashboard where you can look at how many times did people visit your e-learning landing page, how many times did they listen to your e-learning demo, how many times did they download? Because remember, that's the most important part of a campaign like this is to get downloads. You want people to download your e-learning demo and have it on file for when a project comes up that you would be right for. They have that demo on hand because they're not going to remember you and they're not going to remember your website. It may not be bookmarked. That's why most voice seekers and Anne may agree that most of them have a folder, a file of digital shoebox of some sort that has a pile of demos. Absolutely, and when a project comes along, because the odds of you emailing somebody your demo and the odds that they have a project that you're perfect for.  18:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) At that time Extremely slim. It's all about timing.  18:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, it's all about timing.  18:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I just did a teachable moment all about timing. Like you just don't know when people are going to need or require your service and you can't expect that just because you got the demo yesterday that there are all these people that need something today.  18:40 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So you have to manage your expectations by the analytics. So should it be e-learning bookings in that one month? I don't think that would be fair to you because it's extremely unlikely. What you can look at is how many times did they go to your website, how many times did they listen to that demo? How many times did they download that demo? How many emails were opened and clicked on?  18:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You brought up a really good point. Is that? Okay? So a boss blast. You can go to the VO boss page to find out more about the Boss Blast. But the Boss Blast is simply allowing to cast the net out into a potential audience that could have a need, and you don't know exactly at what time that need is. So there's that direct marketing from the Boss Blast. But also I love the point that you brought up about the website.  19:23 Bosses, you have a website, it is a tool, it is your storefront. It is your responsibility to have enough knowledge about that tool so that you can go find out, like did somebody download my demo? How many times has the page been visited? Right? Because, just as there is with the Boss Blast, we have statistics. I can work with you, like when we send out a campaign, we have all the stats, we know who it was sent to, we know who opened it and we know who clicked. Now, once they get to your website right, they can click either the demo that's there or they can click on your website, and so once they do that, that's it. I just know that they've gone to your website.  20:00 Now, on your website, you need to be responsible for how many times has that been downloaded, how many times has that page been visited? And that can really help to see who's listening to your demo and what your booking ratio could be after that. And so those stats are important to know. So if you do not know how to access the back end of your website and we will have a podcast probably very shortly on just websites you must make it a point to educate yourself, and if you've had a website designer that did that for you, then you must either ask them how do you find out these stats right? Can they set up Google to actually allow you to see those stats, so when people visit your website, that you can find those stats and just know that, even if you may not be technically minded, you should really educate yourself on how to find that information out. That's important stuff to know. Sorry, I'm on my soapbox there, but gosh, it's so important.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Host) No, that's amazing advice, Anne. Now here's the next part about this is here's some real life, practical real life experience that I have had this year is that one of the genres that I've been focusing on in 2024 is political. Over $10 billion is being spent on political marketing and advertising this year, so I updated my political demo. I've already had a list of political contacts because I've been marketing myself as a political voice actor since 2022.  21:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Are you direct marketing yourself, or are you on a roster as well?  21:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Both, I'm on rosters, but I'm also direct marketing. I did a direct marketing, I did a direct marketing email blast, updated my political landing page and I sent out, I'd say over the past month and a half, roughly 150 emails to production companies that are dedicated to and specialize in creating political content radio, tv, digital streaming that require a voice actor. And do you want to guess how many replies I got to this?  21:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) email of 150?. Oh, I can imagine.  21:54 - Tom Dheere (Host) I can imagine the answer is zero, zero Now. At first I freaked out.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But did you get hired?  22:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) No.  22:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, okay, not yet.  22:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay. So the question is what's going on? So, after some reflection and talking to other political voice actor friends, is they are so busy. These political production companies are so busy they do not have the time to open, much less read, any of my emails, much less click on the link download the demo or reply.  22:26 They don't have the time because everything has gone bananas this year, so because the debates have started the conventions are starting soon and then everybody's going to go crazy, from the presidential election all the way down to dog catcher and everything in between. However, I do have some existing clients who just send me work. They're like hey, here's another one, Can you do it today? Hey, I've got these five spots. I need them by first thing in the morning.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is that going to stop you from sending a direct email in the?  22:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) future? No, not at all.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I wanted you to make that point.  22:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Because this particular genre at this particular time of year. I have now, through experience, learned to manage my expectations about what's going to happen Because, like nowadays, if you're doing a direct marketing email, if you're getting one, to 2% of people replying to you, you're doing good, that's awesome.  23:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's what I tell my boss blast people yes, if you're getting one to 2% click or open you used to look for. If you get a 10% open rate and then 1% click rate.  23:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) Those days are over.  23:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Well, 1% is good. So, yeah, it's absolutely good. But there's still again if you know your audience and you know what to write to them, it's still effective. I would still say there are still people that open their emails and there's always that chance.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, so the point is just because they didn't reply to your email. I guarantee there's a folder in their Gmail or their inbox where they just took that email and just dragged it into that folder.  23:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, which is why when I go through stats with people because we will go through who opened it and who clicked on it but then after that you don't know what they're going to do with it and, honestly, unless you're hacking into their systems, you really don't know if they've put it into a folder or not. I love the fact that you also are mentioning that you have to manage your expectations. Again, it's about timing and managing expectations as well, but that initial data can really help you to find out is it worth your investment?  24:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So the aforementioned e-learning direct marketing campaign that you do from the Boss Blast yeah, looking at how many people opened it, how many people clicked on the demo, how many people downloaded the demo, which, if you're using a good CRM like there's a bunch of great CRMs out there which we could talk about in another conversation it can give you a good idea of what's going on.  24:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't have to download the demo either. They could just play it. Do you know what I mean? That's the other thing too. And they keep the email without downloading the demo.  24:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) So again, it's like everybody has different habits. Some people will save the email, not open it. Some people will save the email, open it. Some people save the email, open it. Click on the demo, listen to it, but not download it.  24:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Some people save the email and then forget about it right so that you need to consistently right every once in a while.  25:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, do a follow-up every few months. Do a follow-up in that top-of-mind email, right, Right. So the lesson here, bosses, is that analytics don't always tell the story. You can't live or die by your analytics, but at the end of a year I can look and go, okay. Here's a trend Right. Here's an example 2023, looking at the three portals. So last year, 12% of my voiceover revenue came from my representation, 49% came from online casting sites, 23% came through direct marketing strategies, 16% came through indirect marketing strategies.  25:38 Now, if you look at five years ago 2019, I had my representation percentage was one or 2%.  25:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, and I would say your pay to play your roster was high pay-to-play was non-existent because I wasn't a paid member of oh, that's right. At that time I took a long break because in the beginning I had a high percentage rate right, but my direct and indirect marketing strategy was like 81, but I also made 20% less in 2019 than I do in 2024.  26:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) So how did me going from focusing on direct and direct marketing to focusing on online casting sites, increase my representative percentage? What happened? What are the analytics? This is my theory. In 2019, I auditioned 450 times. The whole year 2023, I auditioned 1,854 times. I got better at auditioning. Voice123 made me a better auditioner because I got reps in. Also, it helped me keep a better idea on casting trends. What are people?  26:40 - Intro (Announcement) looking for.  26:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) How can I read a casting notice and match it up with who I am and what I can provide as a problem solver, as a voice actor? That fed into increasing the quality of my representation auditions. I got better auditioning on online casting sites and, by extension, I got better at auditioning for my reps. So that's why I went from like 1% or 2% in 2019 to, five years later, booking 12% of my revenue.  27:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I think it's kind of like goal setting right If you don't write it down. It's kind of like in your head you're like but I've auditioned, but I've sent my direct marketing email, or I've sent my emails and I've done my marketing, but in reality if you're not writing it down or recording it, it's really hard to track what you've done. I mean, it wasn't until I started tracking my auditions and where I was booking and it helped me to determine a genre. Oh, I should pursue more work in this area. There's so many things you can learn from it, from just recording it. So consider it like a goal right. Consider that document recording and gosh, it doesn't get any easier than downloading a free template from Tom.  27:42 - Intro (Announcement) Dheere's website.  27:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's for darn sure. I mean really. This has been such an enlightening conversation, tom. I mean the amount of information you can find out just by tracking your return on investment where are you auditioning, where are you spending your money, where are things happening can really inform you to make great decisions about how to evolve and how to move your business forward. So do it, guys. Download that document and understand that, yes, this is a marathon, not a sprint. We'll probably say that for every podcast that I work with with you, tom. I mean, I say that all the time, but you guys it is. Tom, thanks so much for your invaluable wisdom on this. I love that you're such a geek about all of this, and if anybody can produce a really cool spreadsheet, I'm sure it's Tom Dheere.  28:22 - Tom Dheere (Host) I am a happy mutant, so yeah.  28:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network, connect and download documents like a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Thanks, tom Bye.  28:40 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

00:01 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne, my name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week and I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping guess what. You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you.  00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at anneganguzacom.  00:54 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with the lovely Lau Lapids. Hey, Annie. Always happy to be back in the sack Lau. You are so lovely. You know what this week I've been thinking there are so many of my students and I'm quite sure that this happens to you frequently, being an agent and being a coach is that people are always trying to put on these particular voices right, that they feel like should be the voiceover voice right, and I know we've done episodes on this and we sound like maybe a broken record or maybe bosses out there.  01:54 You've heard this before. We really love your original voices. I think there's so many people that get into voiceover because they feel like they've got these great voices in their head, they can do great imitations and then when they get behind a mic, they perform and in reality, what most people want, I think, and what I demand from my students is give me your voice, because that pretty voice just is super boring. What are your?  02:21 - Lau Lapides (Guest) thoughts on that Lau. Yeah, we were just talking about this just a moment ago that casting directors and agents are really, really now looking for the real voice, the real sound, and we've been doing some animation in-house workshops and talking to animation casting directors who are saying 80% of the talent that they are hiring now for big feature film and TV series are their voices. It's their voices, real voices, their real voices. It reminds me of when we saw the earlier animations of like the 90s and the 2000s, when we saw the Ice Age and all of that. We'd see the A-list actor personalities Queen Latifah and Ray Romano and all of that, and they were them and they of that and they were them and they were recognizable and they were them and you thought, wow, why aren't they putting on a character? They're actors, they can put on a character. Well, why would they? They have a huge following. We want to hear their voice.  03:17 We want to know who they are. So I think some of those trends started with some of the A-listers, the Tom Hanks that came in and really provided their everyday sound for these heightened, larger-than-life characters in commercial as well.  03:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, I always wonder, like, what is it about voiceover, when I get my students in?  03:39 - Intro (Announcement) What is it?  03:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) about when people first start, when they think that we don't want to hear their voice. They're always like and now I'm going to read a medical narration and I'm like no, like, no, I don't want to hear it like that. I want to hear your voice telling me or educating me about it in a confident way, but I don't want to hear this hi, this kind of air that they have and that they put on their voice. And I think a lot of times people like listen to what they hear out there. There's a lot of that out there and that's kind of unfortunate because that gives people preconceived notions of what is the right way to sound. There is no right way to sound. I think there's really just your way and your genuine way to sound, and that's what we find so intriguing, it's true.  04:25 - Lau Lapides (Guest) And many of us too, at least in our generation. We grew up on Disney and we grew up on programming where we did hear those sounds. That was in our heads. As little kids. We were imprinted with those sounds and we had the bedtime story when we heard Snow White and Cinderella. And when we grew up with the fairy tales, the folklore, we heard those exaggerated character and sometimes even caricature sounds in our cartoons as well. Many of our cartoons as well were over the top, larger than life, over the top unrecognizable to who that person was. So there was a style of those times that doesn't translate quite as well to these times. These times are much more real, authentic, down to earth, relatable. All the things that you see in the specs of your breakdown, of your auditions for like a commercial, you're also going to see the heightened characters as well. So be prepared for that Like. Start to be at home with what your authentic sound is.  05:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And then I'm going to add on top of that right, be comfortable with your voice, embrace your voice, and embrace your voice in all levels of emotion and point of view, because that's where I think a lot of times people will think but I sound so flat and I sound so boring and I'm like but you're not when you talk to me right in this session that we're having right here. When you talk to me, you're not boring, you're not flat at all. There's a dynamic to your voice, there's emotion, there's point of view, and I think that's the real key right there is bring you with that point of view and that emotion that really brings the story to life.  06:04 I talk to my students all the time and I say we all, we tell stories all the time and when we do that, we have evolving points of view that happen throughout the story, right From maybe the beginning of your sentence starts in one point of view and then it ends up in another because, oh my God, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you.  06:25 And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you're not going to believe what I did last night and let me tell you. And so, in reality, like you can be excited, you can be exaggerated and then mysterious, and then like, well, first of all, this unfortunate thing happened, but then, oh my gosh, right. And so your emotion is evolving as you tell the story and I feel like that can be in your voice, and it allows your voice to have many different textures and many different sounds that are very much authentic and not character-y, that's right and the truth is is like when we're in a conversation, whatever that conversation is, it would be the last thing that comes to our mind Oftentimes what we sound like or what we look like Because we're thinking of other things.  07:02 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next we're talking of other things. We're connecting to the person. We're thinking of where we're going. Next, we're talking about our cat. We're doing whatever we're doing, but we stop the action, we stop the authentic doing. When we go into process and start looking at critiquing, criticizing, ripping apart whatever action verbs you want to use, when we look at ourselves and listen to ourselves, that's when we break the chain of the actual connection. So if a casting director says to you after an audition disconnected, you aren't connected that means you were in your head, you were thinking about lines, copy, or what you sound like or the mechanics right, like you're not at that last final destination yet You're not with me, yet You're not in the room with me, you're inside of yourself, and so that, to me, is a quick indication.  07:51 If you're saying what did that sound like? Did I sound real? I already know you didn't sound real. You didn't sound real because we wouldn't be thinking about sounding real. We would be thinking about persuading that person to get the prescription medication that they really need so that they don't die. Right, we're not thinking about did I sound authentic?  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) talking to them about the medication.  08:13 And I think a lot of it is. When we get those words in front of us. That's what throws everybody off right, because all our lives we've been trained to read out loud, right, to read out loud. I say that three times again read out loud, which is nothing like acting, right, reading out loud is nothing like acting. And so I have so many people are like but I don't understand, like, how do I connect to it? I would never say that.  08:35 And again, that is our job is to make those words sound believable and create the scenes in which those words would come out of our mouths in a believable and authentic way. And so you have to stop looking at the words as if they are words. There has to be so much more beyond those words on the page Right, and I think a lot of times I emphasize what's almost more important is it's easy to figure out who you are if you're just you, right, you're you. You're representing a company, you're trying to convince somebody that this is a great product or whatever it is you're trying to do, but really thinking about the person you're talking to. Like, have empathy. I say this so many times is that empathy is like number one rule, I think, for being really engaging and understanding who it is that you're talking and being able to connect with them, because having empathy and understanding what are their pain points, how is it that your product is going to help them? Is going to really, I think, help you to tell that story or be more authentic sounding.  09:32 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, no question about it, and you and I have that sensitivity about the word read. Read is kind of like it's not in our realm to read. We don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts. Not in our realm to read, we don't read for a living. We read scripts. We have to read scripts.  09:46 Yes, the brain process is the reading of it, first for comprehension's sake, yes, and then, once you're comprehending what is being done, you're processing it. You don't want to go into auditions and you don't want to go into recording sessions. Processing it, that's before. And then, as you process it, you get to your interpretation. Then now we're talking, now we're talking, then you want your interpretation to start, come out into your delivery. So, allowing that time, allowing the brainpower to happen, allowing that, to say my reading is at the beginning of the process. It is not when I'm auditioning or when I'm working on a gig. I'm not reading. In fact, I should even know the copy is the truth. Really, great actors who are doing voiceover copy half of them are not even reading it. They're just already interpreting it and memorizing it because they're actors for on camera, so they're taught to memorize.  10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and memorization is helpful if you've got a short script. However, a lot of the genres that I deal with it's not a short script and it's not practical necessarily to memorize. However, I will say that you're doing something similar. Not necessarily you're not memorizing, but you're reading far enough ahead, right, so that you understand where did the story go. Right, Because you got to know where the story ends up, so that you can like formulate how it begins. It's like you can't tell a good story unless you know that story, and so you can't evolve a point of view unless you know, like, where you're going with it. Really, you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script. Really you can discover it along the way if you have really well-written script, right, or if you have easy-to-understand script.  11:20 And I'll tell you a lot of times, in commercial copy or corporate narration copy or e-learning copy, it's not the easiest script. A lot of times it's not a dialogue between two people, which I think is the easiest to understand. Right, and to be the most comfortable with sounding like you're talking to someone is if you're actually reading copy that's written that people are talking to someone. When you have copy that's written in any other kind of format like second or third person, then it becomes a whole different story. How are you making that sound like you're actually talking to someone? Because it's not written in a dialogue format. And so that's where I think the disconnect comes for a lot of people, when they don't know where they are in the scene and they don't know who they're really talking to. They haven't thought about it or researched it or analyzed it. They then just read the words and then it becomes very neutral.  12:08 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It becomes neutralized, and that's fascinating. In your daily conversations too, I think you'll notice that people stop speaking when they're processing information, and a lot of times I'll have people. My husband says this to me all the time. He said stop bulleting thoughts at me, I'm still processing what you said earlier. I can't. I can't interpret what you're doing right now. It's too fast for me, so would you say stop bullying.  12:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Did he say stop bullying?  12:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) your points at me no bulleting, bulleting, Like shooting it at me, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, that kind of thing. But in the daily conversation of many people you're actually not processing quite as fast, especially new information or technical information.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so it would be unfair.  12:49 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It would be unfair to say, well, give me emotion about it, give me a feeling about it, which I do to him all the time. Tell me how you feel. He said I don't know how I feel, I'm still processing it. So that's the lesson of the day. Is like. That makes sense. If you're not emoting authentic feeling, it's because you're still processing it and you've got to do that first. You've got to get through that first. That is not the end, though.  13:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not the outcome. The top layer is your emotion, is your point of view. That is what brings your unique perspective and your unique read and what casting directors are looking for, usually all of the time right, they're looking for that All of the time.  13:25 Bring you to the copy. What does that really mean? Well, that means bring a point of view to that copy, and bring a point of view that makes sense. I mean, obviously, if you're championing a product, you want to make sure you're championing a product and you're not like angry or miserable about it unless the dialogue calls for it. So you need to get to that last layer, which is that evolving point of view, which makes the connection and really allows people to also comprehend what you're saying easier.  13:53 Because if you're neutral, if your point of view is just like hi, I'm going to read the words really nicely and very consistently and I'm not really going to put any sort of emotion on it, and I'm going to do this for the next two minutes, right, and I sound like a voiceover artist, right, but in reality you haven't told the story, you haven't allowed anyone to hear that and then process it. You haven't helped them in their comprehension, typically like as you and I are talking today. Right, I'm like well, I don't go. Well, we've got this right, I don't go well, we've got this Annie that sounds excellent to me.  14:31 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Yes, yes, it does.  14:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it helps really people to hear and comprehend and understand what you're saying so much better than a simple like run-of-the-mill, medium, neutral kind of a read which most people seem to do on long-format narration copy. They tend to think it's like a documentary, but in reality, the focus of you, if you're actually doing a documentary and I always tell people like what's the difference, it's written like a documentary. Why should I not sound like a documentary? Well, typically with a documentary and those of you that love documentaries, such as myself, you're watching a video which completes a story. For you, there's a visual right and there's also music maybe, which also helps in the story right.  15:10 Your voice is simply supporting the documentary. So you need to just be able to tell the story, no matter what the media is underneath you, and the best kind of story to tell is one that's real and authentic. And that's why I think so many casting directors and correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I think so many people ask for that real read, because you can put any kind of music under a real read. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You can put any kind of video under a real read and it will work. You put something really dramatic and if somebody's like hey, this is the story and I'm going to tell it to you, like it really is Right, you can put dramatic music behind that, you could put dramatic visuals and it works. And you can also put something that's very soft and not dramatic and that storyline still works.  15:50 But if you're dramatic and you're fighting with other dramatic elements of a production that doesn't always work.  15:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Nope, doesn't always work. Doesn't always work. That's a good little formula to think about. And then I want to take a couple steps back and say, okay, here we go to the tough stuff. And that is before you even do anything meaning reading, prospect, audition or copy how do you feel about yourself? How do you feel? Ooh, we're getting deep. How?  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) do you feel about yourself?  16:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How do you feel we're getting deep? How do you feel about what you have to say, how you say it, how you feel about it, how you feel in your life, because that is also going to be transmitted as well through all of this. You lack confidence, you lack self-esteem, you lack your know-how about who you are as a person. The more you're going to be freaking out about the work that you're doing, you're just always going to feel like you're never bringing it. You're never bringing it to the table and you're going to start to become super biased and super, super, highly critical about yourself, where you can no longer trust your self-direction.  16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, I hear that a lot from some students that come into the industry and they try to sound a particular way, right, and they think do I have what it takes? I get that question probably on a daily basis, right, do I have what it takes? Well, do you have what it takes to be brave enough to bring you yourself to the party?  17:11 - Intro (Announcement) right.  17:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And if you do, if you have the courage to do that right. There's a lot of people that don't have the courage and they hide behind that voice, they hide behind that persona. That is hi, I'm the voiceover voice and that is almost like a. It's almost like a false confidence, right?  17:26 lau or it's like oh, it's a mask I'm sounding it's a mask, it's a mask which is how interesting I always say a lot of character actors are very confident, right, and it's always really like when we listen to character acting, it's easy to become more emotional, right, because we are a character, it's a dialogue and we can formulate those emotions. They're kind of written into the copy for us. But when we're talking about some other type of copy, which may not be obvious, right, may not be, you know, a commercial, oh, I don't want to sound too selly, right, that's what I know about being selly, right, be a real person, don't sound announcer-y. Well then, that's my emotional like. I guess starting point, right, but in reality you've got to do more work to figure out that story, to figure out where your emotion lies. If all you know is that you can't be announcer-y and you can't sell and you need to sound, you're talking to your best friend. You need more work than that. You need to do more work than that to tell the story, right, lau.  18:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No doubt about it. Okay, so that's the honesty that you need, and sometimes you don't possess it. So that's where we always say circle yourself with great people to help you figure out what your most authentic you. And delivery is and connection is, because sometimes we don't see it, we don't know what it is, we don't know how to reach it We've never heard it and it takes years sometimes to get to, and that's OK.  18:48 Have patience, but you really do, as you said, have to have the courage, the bravery, to say I need to feel something about this, I need to care about something, I need to connect with who I'm talking to, because I was just working with a client yesterday, coaching, and they were literally what was it about? Oh, it was an adult acne product. It was like an infomercial type thing and this talent is so talented, it's like so gifted, so wonderful, was not connecting in any way. And I turned that into her sister having adult acne and, surely enough, the onion peeled. And then all of a sudden it came to her after almost an hour. She said I think I'm just going to talk to her because she really does have this problem actually and it really does bother her.  19:32 And I'm like you have to think about what's at stake for the people or person that you're talking or discussing with. Anytime you're going to sit down and have coffee or go to your diner and have breakfast. You're going to talk about a lot of stuff with your people and there's always something at stake. What's at stake? Are you talking?  19:50 - Intro (Announcement) about politics?  19:51 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Are you talking about religion? Are you talking about sexuality? Are you talking about finances? High stakes on all of those. High stakes on all of those. Your kids going to school high stakes on all of those. So why would we not think about that and connect with all the scripts that become in front of us Because there's stakes to those scripts, right, Absolutely.  20:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love the way that you phrase that that there's stakes to that. There is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover there is. There's a reason why the words are there in front of you and you have to discover really what those stakes are Like. Why, why are you talking? Purpose is so important, really. I mean, purpose is so important. If you don't understand the purpose of why you're saying something, it's kind of like, well, let me just gloss over the words, then it drives us, it's our lives.  20:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's like that's why so many actors will say who are career actors? They'll say what else would you have liked to do? They say I don't know. I do what I have to do, I do what I love to do and I do what I need to do. So there is the authenticity. It's not I'm doing this because I want to sound a certain way.  20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm doing this because I want to look a certain way Right.  20:58 - Lau Lapides (Guest) We don't want a doctor that looks good and sounds good, we want a doctor that can help us with our health.  21:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know, I like that analogy because we don't want a doctor to look or sound good Like. When I go to a doctor and I connect with a doctor, I want him to help me, I need him to cure me, right, and that is the underlying reason as to why I'm listening to him in the first place, right, and if he's not addressing my needs, if he is all concerned about how he looks and or how he sounds when he's telling me about it, I'm not going back to that doctor. And so guess what? That's why we need that in advertising. We need you to be able to connect with that potential client when you're talking about that product, because there is, there are high stakes I love how you put that. There are stakes and what are they and understand your purpose for telling somebody about this product or talking about this product, or communicating with someone and empathizing, right, empathizing yes, I know that you're upset that you have. You know what I mean. Adulterated acne is not fun. I had it.  21:54 It was just like shouldn't I have been over this by now? You know, I mean it is just a thing.  21:59 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's devastating actually, and acne of all ages is devastating to the people who are experiencing it. It's stigmatizing, it's all of those things. So it's like when you think for a moment of what that's like to go through, that will help you connect in a really personalized way. I think personalization is a part of it too. Personalization is a part of it too. So even if it's a business read of some kind or maybe it's a how-to, like how do I organize my closet, there's a personalization about that, like how do I go through the process, how do I feel about it, what does it do for me? And it's a truly deeply psychological process. We see that in all the shows, from hoarders to organizing to everything.  22:38 We have a lot of emotion, a lot of memories, a lot of psychology in our closet as an example, right. So there is almost nothing that I can think of that doesn't have high stakes to it for someone who is involved with it. It may not for me, but it will for someone else.  22:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I want to reiterate that that applies across the board, really for any script. It applies for medical narration, it applies for corporate narration. Again, people have such misguided thoughts about what is corporate narration or what is medical narration. Well, I'm just going to deliver the information articulately and clearly and teach somebody. In reality. No, there are stakes. Companies have products to help people to solve a problem and you've got to understand what that is.  23:23 Medical narration is all about either education or you're selling to solve a problem, that somebody needs to come to the hospital because you have the latest technology to help with their recent cancer diagnosis. You know that's high stakes. You're educating young doctors about the process of electrocardiograms because you may save a life right. There's high stakes to all of that and in getting to understand the purpose and what those stakes are is going to be what helps you connect and what helps you be the better reader, even if you've never heard it that way before. You're not coming to myself or Lau to be coached to give a pretty read. You can do that all on your own and, as a matter of fact, I don't want you if that's. All you want to do is a pretty read.  24:07 - Lau Lapides (Guest) No, I don't want it either. It's not authentic?  24:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it's not authentic and that's not what I can help you with the most, because you don't need me. I'm not going to have you give. Give me your money for that. Give me your money if you want to really sound connected and really understand how to evaluate your scripts and analyze your scripts and understand those stakes and then bring that script meaningfully to your audience Right and, if a talent says well, I don't know much about this industry or I don't know if I feel anything about it.  24:35 - Lau Lapides (Guest) I'd say two things to that. I'd say three things to that. Number one you can train with us and become an actor, and an actor should be able to connect to every world in the world. And number two if you don't think you can connect, go to a big building downtown in the area you live in and just walk in the lobby. Don't look scary or creepy, just walk in the lobby and just like, have a cup of coffee in your hand and sit in the lobby and watch the people, listen to them. How do they feel?  25:13 How do they dress? Are they moving fast? Are they on their cell phones? Are things busy for them? Are they moving and shaking? Try to capture that as you're looking at your script, because that's the organization, that's the industry, that's the thing you're talking about and the people you're connecting either to or you are posing as right. Do that little bit of work. I know Johnny Depp did that for years and years as an actor.  25:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) He would physically like go live in the culture and you couldn't talk to him for like a month until he figured it out right and, in addition to that, go ahead and research the product, Research the company, Sign up for their mailing list. You're going to find out a lot. Go to their YouTube channel or just talk to someone.  25:56 - Lau Lapides (Guest) How about talk to someone. Annie, just talk to someone and say hey, I'm not a solicitor and I don't want to freak you out. Can I talk to you for five minutes? Because I'm an actor actually and I might be hired by this organization and I kind of just want to hear what your life is like when you work in the office in the day.  26:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you feel about this company? How do you feel about?  26:12 - Lau Lapides (Guest) the product that you offer. That's going the extra mile. Why not?  26:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I guarantee you you might have somebody who would actually enjoy talking about it.  26:20 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Oh my God, They'd be excited. They'd say how do I know you?  26:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But yeah, especially if you say look, I'm not here to freak you out, I just I'm an actor and I might be hired. So I just I'm curious to get your opinion. What is life like at this company? Are you stressed? I mean, do you love the product?  26:43 - Lau Lapides (Guest) Do product. What can you share with me? That's a good idea. I like that. Isn't that a great idea? By the way, annie, we just did one on podcasts, and when you're talking about self-promotion, you're talking about self-producing, you're talking about becoming a business Like why not be the guy or gal on the street that does a one-minute interview with someone who's on the street coming out from the building, right? Some of our biggest podcasts and some of our biggest programs were built out of kids that said hey, I want to talk to entrepreneurs, let's go around and let's just drive around, let's just talk to them and put the best ones on.  27:09 Oh, we love that stuff, we love that stuff, right?  27:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep, in business, people love to talk about them. They do, they do. For the most part, they love to talk about themselves, right, especially if you make them feel important and guess what? Guess what our entire job is as voice actors, right.  27:23 - Lau Lapides (Guest) They love it.  27:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) To make our potential clients or whoever it is we're talking to right about that product, to make them feel important. It's all about them. It's not about us or how pretty we sound when we talk about it. It's about them and how we're going to help them be better, look better, make more money, do all the things and make them the richest, most popular adults. I mean honestly, if you think about it, it's all about them. That's why we listen.  27:44 When we put our attention towards anything, it's kind of egocentrical. It's like what do I need? What am I going to get out of this? Am I going to learn something? Is this going to give me a sale on a product that I've been looking to buy, or is it going to give me information about the product that I've been meaning to find out what's in it for me? Yeah Right, what's in it for me? And so you need to, as the voice actor representing you need to tell them, like, here's what's in it for you. I'm here to help. I'm here to deliver this information to help you. I'm not here to sound good, necessarily Well, maybe I will sound great while I do it, but I'm more sincere about wanting to help you.  28:16 - Lau Lapides (Guest) So we just gave like a ton of tips about how you can actually sound authentic, and that is to live the authentic. And I like to say too go to lunch, go to dinner, go to coffee, go to tea. It's not about spending money, it's about going to places where you can sit with people and really talk to them. Talk with them and to them and about them, with them and to them and about them. And that's how you learn. How to talk authentically is to really be in conversation with people that you're fascinated by, you're interested in, or you want to help, or you want them to help you right.  28:50 We're not just the end-all, be-all helpers. We get a lot of help from them as well, so we get a lot of information from them that is very usable for us.  28:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how this conversation went. I mean, it's just really brought up some really great new ideas for you know, you guys, and how you can really continue to develop as an actor and continue developing your authenticity and making those words really come alive.  29:14 - Lau Lapides (Guest) It's a conversation about conversation.  29:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, all right. Well, I'm going to have a conversation about my sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and communicate like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week, lau. Thank you so much, and we'll see you guys next week. Bye, see you next week.  29:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Val Kelly, the brains behind the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, joins Anne Ganguzza in a special BOSS preview of MAVO. The BOSSES discuss Val's journey into voiceover, the challenges and lessons learned from organizing the conference, and the evolution of MAVO over the years. Her passion for the craft is evident as she discusses creating her own company to champion voice actors, offering a fascinating glimpse into the challenges and rewards of hosting a successful conference. The BOSSES shares insights on adapting to online events, the importance of providing educational resources for voice actors, and the exciting lineup of speakers and sessions planned for the upcoming conference. With a diverse lineup of guests, this year's conference is a great event for anyone looking to elevate their skills and overcome the industry's evolving challenges. VO BOSSES can save $75 by using the code VOBOSS at checkout when purchasing your MAVO tickets 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketing, coaching and demo production. That gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited and happy to be here with a very special guest voice actor and owner, president and very boss CEO of the Mid-Atlantic VoiceOver Conference, Val Kelly. Yay, hey, hi, val, it's so wonderful to have you here today.  01:08 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh, thanks so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate it.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I'll tell you what I am so excited to talk to you today. Number one, first of all. So what does it take to be boss and CEO, not only just being a voice actor I know a lot of people that listen to the Boss podcast for us to be successful voice actors, but you're also an educator, which I love, and also to run a conference. Now my husband I'll just say my husband works, he's an event manager for multiple companies for many years and I know what it takes to run an event and it's no small task. So I'm excited to talk to you about yourself and what it took for you to become such a CEO of such a great event, and I'm excited. I'm going to let you talk, I swear I'm excited because it's my first year presenting with Amevo. So I'm very excited to do that this year and I'm already planning my wardrobe.  02:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Oh my gosh, same same.  02:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, what am I going to wear? So I'm very excited how many outfit switches.  02:09 - Val Kelly (Guest) Am I going to have Right?  02:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) exactly what are my costume changes. So let's first talk about you and how you got started in voiceover, because I know that you still are teaching, correct, yeah?  02:23 - Val Kelly (Guest) So I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, nothing wrong with that, I'll tell you are teaching, correct?  02:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, Nothing wrong with that. I'll tell you Nothing wrong with that, and especially if you're teaching, because that's just near and dear to my heart.  02:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, absolutely. So I got started in voiceover in. About 1999 was when I first kind of stuck my foot in it a little bit and I didn't really know what I was doing of course, because back then there were only a handful of people that were really booking work. So basically, I just took a class and you know they were like oh, you have a lot of talent. Of course, like that's. You know, the typical thing when you take a class. They're like, oh, you should definitely do this with your life, you know.  03:06 And you're like, oh great, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks for telling me what I wanted to hear. And then I took a class with these people for six weeks and then I recorded my first demo after six weeks, which was totally crazy. I had no idea what I was doing and it was a commercial demo, so I also really just had no concept of the technique or anything about what I was supposed to be doing.  03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And probably even the industry, right? I mean being educators. Right, we know Like six weeks is really nothing. It may not have been every day for six weeks. Right that you were training. You were probably training once a week yeah.  03:40 - Val Kelly (Guest) No, it was like once a week yeah exactly Exactly.  03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, being educators, we know it takes a while to acquire skills.  03:57 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah for sure. But I mean fast forward to basically 2011, when I just had my second daughter and I never stopped thinking about voiceover and I just said to my husband you know, I really want to get back into this, like I feel like I have a lot of talent to offer to this industry and I just really want to try and make something of it. You know, not give up teaching because I had been teaching French for such a long time and that's a big part of who I am as a person.  04:19 But I wanted to add this creative side that I have. I wanted to offer that as well. So I started training with a studio in New York and then just kept training with them for a couple of years with multiple coaches and things like that, and then it was probably 2010. 12 or 13 that I went to Voice Over Atlanta for the first time and I met so many people I think that's actually the first time that I met you and I was just so impressed by that whole event and everything like that, and so that really opened a lot of doors for me in the Voice Over world. I started booking more stuff after I went to that event and then a few more years passed and I just thought there's something here, like in this mid-Atlantic region, that's missing, you know, and I want to give back to the community in a way that's going to be helpful for other voice actors.  05:16 So I was flying to France actually on a trip, and I said to my best friend on the flight I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like, okay, he's like maybe you should get some best friend on the flight. I was like what if I started my own company? And he's like okay, he's like maybe you should get some more sleep on this flight. And I was like, no, but seriously. And he's like, oh, can we talk about this when we get to France? So the whole trip I was, you know, working and everything like that. It was for work, but I was also thinking, like, you know, I have a lot of ideas, like maybe I could really pull this together. So in 2014, I started Minute Landing VoiceOver and it was a real eye-opener, that first event with 28 people showed up for it.  05:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you know Was your initial idea with your company? Was it to do specifically just the event, or was it just to start a company of your own to do voiceover? And it evolved.  06:06 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think my idea was to do this event but also to see where else I could take it you know what else could be offered through this company and then also to like expand it and kind of umbrella my own voiceover work underneath it, which ultimately it's separate from who I am as a voice actor. But that was something I kind of had to figure out a little bit later. But the first event was really great, even though it was tiny. It was absolutely tiny and I just I remember like calling you up and being like and what am I going to do? Like there's only 20 people signed up for my event, and you're like okay, val, okay, okay, let's send some email blasts.  06:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean honestly, I think sometimes smaller is better. I have been at VO Atlanta since pretty much gosh every year, except for the first year, and there's something to be said. That's a big event and it got even bigger. But there's really something to be said for a small, intimate event and people can be overwhelmed by going to an event that is so large, especially those people starting out in the industry. So I think that your conference really serves a niche where it can make people feel more comfortable. It can be a first conference or it could be a 10th conference for them. There are just lots of people who feel comfortable in a smaller conference, a smaller environment. They feel that they get much more out of it. And so, yeah, with that first year being smaller, what did you learn?  07:28 I guess my question would be is and having organized my own smaller events not huge events, but, and also having a husband who works in the event industry, I know how much work it takes, especially when you want it to be a great conference and you want people to get something out of it. It's a lot of work behind the scenes that a lot of people don't see. What they see is a ticket price. And they say, oh, all they do is multiply that ticket price by the amount of attendees. And they say, well, you're making a ton of money. I mean, I don't understand, why is it so expensive? And I'm thinking to myself, oh my gosh, there are so many, so many things.  08:00 So let's talk about the evolution of this conference and things that you learned along the way. And had you planned an event before? I mean, did you love planning an event? Was it your first time? I mean, I liked planning my wedding and I thought, oh, I could do event planning. And then I'm like, well, you know what, it does take an awful lot of time. So what was going through your head when you're like, oh, it was fun to manage event, this is my first event. Was it your fifth event?  08:26 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, that was my first, I mean, as you said, planning a wedding, which I did plan, my own wedding and that was a big. I loved it, it was great and I was very, very good at planning my wedding which I felt like was a good preparation for the first event, you know, I said to my husband I was like it's like planning a wedding every single year, except no one ever gets married. You know. And he was like yeah, okay.  08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Except you to the event. You get married to your event. Yeah, yeah.  08:56 - Val Kelly (Guest) So yeah, I mean, I learned so much after that first year. I just learned so much about the business side of everything that I didn't know. You know, that was one thing. I wish that I had had more business training before I decided to start, because I had to learn everything. I mean, I had my friend help me figure out how to build a website. And that took. I mean just the countless hours of work that go into just trying to do everything yourself because you're starting out and you can't afford to hire anyone.  09:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right.  09:30 - Val Kelly (Guest) And so those are the biggest lessons I've learned, I would say from the beginning until now is just every year I learn something new about the business and how to manage the money side of things. And you know, like you said, people look at the price and they go oh, she's making a billion dollars.  09:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's like actually actually no.  09:51 - Val Kelly (Guest) Actually no because I have to pay for the venue, I have to pay for all the guest speakers, I have to pay for the marketing and all the stuff that goes into it.  09:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And.  09:59 - Val Kelly (Guest) I do a lot of it myself, just simply for the fact that I am a small company. It's a boutique you know sized company and we kind of evolved into that whole boutique world where I had this idea Maybe this happened about five years ago where I said someone said to me, why don't you call it a boutique event?  10:19 And I was like, oh, that's cute you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started and I was like, oh, that's cute, you know, and that's how the whole thing kind of started. And then I took it and really had to explain to people what does that even mean, you know? And just being a French teacher, it's like, well, when you think of a boutique, what do you think of? You think of like a high-end, smaller place where you're going shopping and you're buying super high-quality items and everything is planned down to to like every tiny detail you know, and that's kind of what I wanted to transfer to my event without being snobby about it, obviously, like you know.  10:54 So that's kind of how I delivered that message to people is just like think of it as a high-end boutique. You know you're coming in.  11:01 I'm hiring only the top tier talents that are in the industry, people that are not appearing at every single event every year because I want to offer something different, and once we had that, we kind of ran with in the conference as far as the number of people and just the organizational part of it and just understanding how things work. And then after that, 2018 was really great too. We skipped to 2017. And then in 2020, covid hit. So then we had to go from being what was supposed to be in-person event, switching it to an online event at the last minute, and that was totally crazy.  11:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It was so nuts, I'm sure that was a whole new learning curve for you, because online events are so much different than in-person events and, plus, I don't know if you had already like secured a venue. At that point I mean because typically the planning for events like this it runs all year. That point I mean because typically the planning for events like this, it runs all year. Right, I mean, you're planning for this event, you're planning the next year before the one is even done, basically.  12:12 - Val Kelly (Guest) So when we had to take it online, luckily because it was COVID and out of your control type of scenario I was able to figure it out in enough time to say to the venue we're canceling. And then I took it to a virtual studio in Baltimore and I had someone do like the live streaming for me because. I had no idea what I was doing.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I can vouch for that because myself doing mostly I mean after 2015, I stopped doing in-person events at my home and I started doing everything online and that live streaming. Back in the day, it hadn't really evolved or developed, and so there were lots of live streaming technologies that were just coming out, and so I literally yeah, I had to learn it myself, and then I also hired somebody to help me live stream it, and then I also wanted to do a hybrid event. So it was crazy having people at my house plus live streaming it online, and so that alone and especially if you want it to be a quality event right, that live stream you have to have good cameras, you have to have the ability for people to be able to switch between people that are presenting to the audience and just to make it engaging. Otherwise, one of the biggest complaints about COVID right and online teaching I'm sure you taught online as well was the fact that it was hard to engage, and I know that even today, people like they're fatigued by Zoom.  13:37 I still love it because I feel like Zoom filled a void for, let's say, just people that couldn't physically be together. I mean it was the next best thing. However, when you're trying to educate over an online platform, it really does become difficult or harder to engage people, and so running an online event you've got to be that much more paying attention to detail so that you can put on a great online event, and that is not a cheap thing to do either. To hire somebody for the cameras and that knows the technical backend to do the live streaming, to make the recordings right, you probably offer the recordings to be available for people who couldn't attend every session, and all that backend work on the website is crazy. It's crazy.  14:22 So I have a lot of respect for the fact that you were able to turn that around. And so, what year is it this year for Mavo? How many years has it been that you've been running?  14:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) So we've been in business since 2014. So, this is 10 years in business and it's actually our ninth conference this year, wow.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So there's a lot to be said for that as well, for the longevity of it. I mean the fact that you know you didn't give up after the first year and you weren't frustrated, right, because it's tough, I mean, and you learn as you go. So you must have a passion for this conference and a passion for putting together something great, educationally resourceful for the community, which I, as a teacher with a teacher heart, I can totally appreciate and respect. That because it's one of the reasons why I started the VO Boss podcast. It's one of the reasons why I did the VO Peeps networking groups, because I wanted to be able to provide a resource. And I believe that that's where your heart is in terms of wanting to provide a resource for the community.  15:18 Because I know it's not about the money and I always try to strive to remind people that venue costs are not cheap. I mean my gosh especially when you're talking about wanting to host someplace. Decent rentals of ballrooms and just sites are so expensive it's along the lines of like tens of thousands of dollars, I would imagine to do that and especially when you're doing it over multiple days and then you're trying to provide reasonably priced rooms for people, and especially when you're keeping it on a smaller scale. It must be harder to find a venue that wants to work on a smaller scale with you. Is that correct? Or they get more expensive.  16:00 - Val Kelly (Guest) I think it's not so much the venue that is not willing to work with you on a smaller scale, it's just the difficult balance, I think is, if you're saying, okay, we're only going to have 120 to 150 people, well, the venue isn't going to lower its price because of how many people you have, because they its price because of how many people you have, because they don't actually care how many people you have.  16:24 What you end up paying for is the meals that you provide. So that's where the big, big expense comes in with any type of food that you offer, because it's based on how many people, and so it's really a difficult challenge of saying like, okay, if we're going to keep it this small, then we actually have to raise the price, so that I can cover all of my costs and at first people were like whoa, what the heck.  16:50 And I was like guys, like you have to understand, like if you want me to hire good people to come in, like great people to come in and speak at this event, they won't do it for free and nor would I want them to, you know. So it's like that's the biggest. Biggest expense beyond the venue is the guest speakers.  17:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know Sure sure, I know how hard it is to sell to this industry because I mean, I sell events myself, I sell coaching services and demos, and so you're selling to an industry where I think we all wish we had more money to spend.  17:23 I mean, I think that's just human nature, I wish we had more money to spend. But especially when you're talking about a creative industry where it is their own business, they're all their own CEOs, they're all entrepreneurs and everybody's kind of just as they go learning the ropes of the business, of it all, it astounds me how much people are willing to spend for, let's say, performance classes, but yet business classes, which I think is imperative for us as voice actors and businesses to be able to make a profit right in order to support, support your habit, support your business, to pay the mortgage, to feed the family, that kind of thing. And so business skills are essential. And I know that your conference in the beginning it was very much geared towards, I would say, more animation and character, but you've evolved it now, especially because I'm involved, you've evolved it to really include many more genres. So let's talk a little bit about what you're offering this year and maybe last year, what you've done to kind of broaden the offerings of the conference.  18:31 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I think what we had to do was really gauge over the years what the level of interest was with. You know, everybody loves a good animation guest speaker because they're so interesting and everybody wants to work for well, maybe not everybody wants to work for Disney Channel but you know you know, and so that's kind of always where my creative mind went and like where do my interests lie?  18:58 a little bit selfishly, but not really, because it's like I know a lot of people are also interested in that. So I would always try to go with a keynote that was somehow involved with animation, just so.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's a big seller. I know that, even A big seller. Yeah, it's a big seller.  19:15 - Val Kelly (Guest) So then last year we had Serena Irwin who is a casting director and she casts freelance for a lot of different studios and has been on Spongebob and she's amazing like, and I really tried to find somebody that was kind of off the grid a little bit for last year because I wanted to find a less mainstream type of person kind of, I guess I would say. And so it was really successful to have somebody who is a casting director, because getting that viewpoint for people like in the animation world, what are you actually looking for? You?  19:52 know, so for me that was very interesting, for a lot of people was very interesting. And then there have been certain years when we've offered a lot of you know know audio book stuff and it's not to say that we're not ever going to offer audio book guest speakers again. But I felt like for this year I wanted to kind of go in a different direction completely and I feel like having Tim Friedlander as the keynote is such an important thing because Tim is doing such amazing work for NAVA and the National.  20:23 Association of Voice Actors and I just have so much respect for him as a person and as an actor that I just felt like it was like the natural. That's what my creative mind was telling me to go in that direction for this year.  20:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's very relevant to the times in our industry. He's done a lot of work with NAava, along with Karin and the board, and they've done a lot of really wonderful work and so they're going to bring a lot of value, I believe, to your conference, absolutely. So let's talk about who else you have this year that might be different besides me, I mean, but we'll talk about me in a minute. I mean, we can talk about you.  20:58 Well, I'm just super excited to kind of bring what I consider my specialties all of the genres, the long format narration, all the stuff that I think right now is really it's important to be an actor, no matter what genre we're talking, whether it's animation, whether it's promo. I mean it's important to be an actor, and even more so now, with all of the synthetic voice, the AI stuff that's out there. It's more important than ever that we hone our skills as actors, and so I want to bring that aspect to the conference to help attendees that are looking to really up their game in the narration, which is a large part of the non-broadcast market out there, and so I'm happy to be there doing. Do you call it a breakout session or a session?  21:45 - Val Kelly (Guest) A mastery session.  21:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A mastery session.  21:47 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, the three-hour sessions are mastery ones and I'm so excited about especially about your e-learning one, because that's a genre for me that I've always wanted to explore and I haven't enough, and you should.  22:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you should because you're a teacher.  22:03 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, it seems like a natural thing to kind of dive into that world a little bit. So I'm very excited, I'm very honored to have you this year and I think it's going to be really great. It's been a long time coming to actually be able to invite you and everything like that, and so I'm very very excited.  22:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so I'm going to be doing two mastery sessions one on acting for narration, and that's all types of narration corporate, medical, all of the geeky narrations explainer and then also the other aspect of the narration genres, which would be e-learning or training. So I'm very excited to have one of each of those to address all those topics. And so, guys, in order to do this, you need to sign up for MAVO, and so hopefully you'll sign up and then you'll look for my mastery classes, but you've got a lot of amazing offerings this year for MAVO, so you want to talk about who else you have for mastery sessions.  23:02 - Val Kelly (Guest) I mean, we have so many great people on board. I'll just highlight a few of them because there's just so many. But Jessica Blue is coming and she's doing some sessions on dubbing live action dubbing and I'm so excited about that because I've never had the chance to meet her in person and we've never offered sessions on dubbing before at Mavo.  23:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's great.  23:22 - Val Kelly (Guest) So it's something brand new and very exciting for people. So she's amazing, so that will be really great. Ever Oliver is coming and offering a special teen program on Saturday only of the event, so that's for teens from ages 13 to 17.  23:37 Great and he's doing like animation, video game and commercial voice acting with them, so it'll be a great opportunity for kids to experience working with Everett, which is amazing and so much fun. Also, luanne Regis is coming and she's a casting director and she used to be a talent agent, and so she's going to be offering some great sessions at the conference as well. Just giving her from a casting director's perspective of what are we really looking for and I think that's what everybody really wants to know- is like what do I?  24:12 need to do to actually book this. And then, also really exciting, we have Daniel Ross, who is Donald Duck. He's an Emmy Award winning actor and it's so exciting to have him offering a mastery session on animation and making bold choices, which is so, so important in the character world of trying to book those roles when you have so much competition with everybody trying to also audition for them.  24:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yeah, I mean, there's so many people.  24:43 - Val Kelly (Guest) It's a long list.  24:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how can bosses sign up for MAVO this year? Where do they go? What's the website? All that stuff.  24:52 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah, so wwwmidatlanticvocom, and they're going to click on MAVO events at the top tab and it will bring up all the events that we have going on. We have some like happy hours that go on virtually beforehand, so it 'll mostly be like every other week from now until the actual conference takes place and people can come to those happy hours online for free or they can like make a donation to Mabo if they want to. That's always an option like just to help support the company, but they can also certainly come for free and we're happy to have everybody there to just like network and chat. But yeah, everything is on the website the schedule and all about all the guest speakers and yeah, Fantastic, and you're going to be offering a special discount just for bosses.  25:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) For boss listeners out there, talk a little bit about that and how they can achieve that discount.  25:49 - Val Kelly (Guest) Yeah. So for the VO boss listeners, we're going to offer a $75 discount and you can just go to the website and click on Get Tickets and when you go to checkout you're going to just enter the code VOBOSS and it will take that $75 off for you on full weekend tickets.  26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, that is so helpful, and guys don't forget to sign up for my mastery sessions and I'm also doing is it an hour long session too, which is for everybody at the conference. Oh yeah, there's a general session too, so that would be really great as well. Great Well, val, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you about Mayvo. I'm so excited and of course I'll just continue to plan my wardrobe.  26:33 - Val Kelly (Guest) Same same but.  26:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm so excited because you do have a wonderful lineup and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again. Wonderful lineup, and I'm excited, of course, to see all of my friends and colleagues again and I'm excited to work with the amazing talent that I know is going to be there in this boutique, wonderful, intimate setting for Mavo. So thanks again for joining me and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom Val. Thanks again, bosses. You guys have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. All right, take care, bye-bye.  27:12 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vo boss comm and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

As voiceover entrepreneurs, we face unique challenges, especially when it comes to retirement savings. Join Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble, as they share invaluable insights into the power of high-yield business savings accounts. You'll learn how these accounts can act as a safety net during lean months, accrue interest, and instill the discipline required to save consistently. The BOSSES recount their personal experiences to illustrate how a robust savings account can bolster confidence and enable you to take calculated risks in your business ventures. Plus, discover how the evolution of online banks has transformed the ability to manage finances and receive money easily to benefit our businesses. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey Boss, listeners Anne Ganguza here. Think about the legacy you want to leave with your voice. It's more than just getting gigs. It's about creating moments that resonate, that shine, that linger in memory. Let's craft those moments together with coaching that's as dedicated to your artistry as you are. Your voice, your legacy, our journey together. Visit anganguz for more information.  00:31 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguzaa.  00:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am tickled to bring back Danielle Famble to the show.  01:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Hey Anne, thanks for having me back. I've been really inspired by your red lipstick, so I'm wearing my own today. It's called Boss Lady.  01:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it and you are definitely a boss lady. Speaking of being a boss and finances, I of course, check my bank statements all the time.  01:21 And can I just say that I first of all, love my business savings account to the point where I think it's like a must have for anybody in the business to just have a savings account, Because when times are lean and we know that this is a volatile industry sometimes we have good months, sometimes, you know, maybe not so good it's important to talk about having a business savings account. And, by the way, I have a high yield business savings account.  01:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, my goodness. Oh, I love high yield savings accounts.  01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is a thing, and one thing I do want you bosses to know I am not a financial advisor nor is. Danielle, even though we love to talk about money, we are not financial advisors, so that is our disclaimer. We're just giving you our experiences with finances and growing our company, so let that be our disclaimer.  02:11 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, this is not financial advice. We're just talking about what we know and what we love and how it's helped us.  02:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, so business savings account.  02:19 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) What are?  02:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) your thoughts on business savings accounts.  02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Like you, I love my high-yield savings account. I absolutely love seeing how much interest that it brings into the account every single month. It is amazing when you think about it. But you also need to make sure that you are putting money into your savings account.  02:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In order to gain that interest, in order to gain that interest.  02:42 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So really it's not spending or utilizing every dollar that comes into your business, similar to personal finance making sure that you have enough money for the volatility of this industry so that you can pay yourself and pay your assistants or whomever that your business needs to pay in the lean times. It's really important.  03:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let me ask you high-yield savings account Now. It used to be back in the day when you had a checking account, banks were offering all these incentives and you would get interest, you know, if you kept in a certain amount of money. Same thing with savings account. But it seems like all of a sudden there's high-yield savings account. Or is it just that I didn't pay attention before? Because all of a sudden I know that my money sat in the bank because I have my Bank of America for like ages, because that just was my bank, but yet it wasn't earning a lot of money, it wasn't earning a lot of interest. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh, look at this from American Express, there's a high yield savings account here and wow, look at that interest rate. I should be maybe throwing my money over there because it wasn't making a whole lot of money. Sitting there Is high-yield savings account, just a thing nowadays. Did it just happen where it just became a thing, or was I missing out all those years?  03:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have to be honest with you. I'm not exactly sure how old or new high-yield savings accounts are. I can tell you that for me, when it came to personal finance, I got clued in into the power of high yield savings accounts and being able to make more money on my money in terms of interest, really, when I started to get serious, which was about six or seven years ago, so it could be relatively new. Typically, these banks are online banks and because they don't have the overhead that brick and mortar banks do, they're able to offer these incentives and offer higher interest. A way to look up a high yield account is really just to go online and Google and try to find one that has a business account, if you can. That's what I have been able to do, me too. Again, I don't know how old or new it is, but I do know that being able to have access to these products it's really important, and being able to have the discipline really to save is actually what fuels the ability to get the money and the interest.  04:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I will say that I was not confident in growing my business or taking risks in growing my business until I had a substantial amount of money in my savings account.  04:57 - Intro (Announcement) And what?  04:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is substantial. I mean for me to feel comfortable that maybe I could pay my rent or pay my mortgage right if I didn't do any business. You know, like they always say, like you want to have as much money in your savings account like accrue three months worth of what it costs you to live in your savings account, and I would say that still holds true. I think that that made me feel comfortable.  05:17 Once I was in voiceover, knowing that if I had a lean month I was okay because I had that money in savings and so it is something that once I was able to accrue that and whatever it took right, I was putting $100 a month away or $50, whatever I could afford at the time.  05:33 And then, as I made more money, I just made sure that I always put into my savings account until I got to that point where I had a good three months. And then I was like it was so freeing and it was so confidence building that I had that good three months. And then I was like it was so freeing and it was so confidence building that I had that money that I could say, hmm, maybe I'll try a new genre, maybe I'll get a new demo or maybe I'll invest in this type of marketing or whatever it is. It allowed me that comfort to invest money to grow my business, and that, I think, is what was so instrumental in having a business savings account. Whether it's high yield or not, right, just having that amount of money aside was what gave me the confidence to grow my business. Other than that, I was living paycheck to paycheck. Who wants to live paycheck to paycheck?  06:19 I mean, that's just not the way to grow your business in voiceover and it's tough and I know a lot of people that might be where they're at and I encourage you to find a way to put a little bit away each month or each week or whatever you can do to grow that savings account.  06:37 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, that's huge. It's a psychological boost too, because you know that if there are lean months which as we know there are there are lean times that you can take care of yourself and the ability to sort of dip your toe into maybe a different genre or do something that makes you feel a little bit more uncomfortable, that your security blanket is this account that can buoy you If it doesn't work out or if it takes a little bit longer. It makes you feel much more confident and secure because you are, because you are the one who is securing yourself. It's a really big deal. It's a big deal to be able to have that and the confidence that it gives you. It was a game changer. Yeah, it's a game changer. A game changer for me.  07:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It really really was, and it catapulted my business into different areas. I mean, everybody knows I've got multiple brands, and so I would not have been able to grow those brands had I not had that comfort or confidence level of having a little bit of cash so that, okay, I could spend more time building up this brand instead of auditioning, or I could invest in a demo, or I could invest in a virtual assistant, right. Again, we just had an episode talking about hiring assistants, right. And so that savings account gave me such a big boost in order to grow, and I continue to make sure that I have money in that. And what's nice is that, even though, let's say, some months I may not be able to put as much into it, right, the one that is a highield savings account is such a bonus, right now because it's accruing a higher interest rate than any of my other accounts, and so I am continuing to get more confidence in putting money in there.  08:16 So the more you make an interest, the more you want to put in it.  08:18 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, the account is helping you out.  08:20 - Intro (Announcement) Exactly.  08:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So the high-yield savings account is a boon and again, we're not financial advisors, but look into it. I mean Google. I know that for me. It's really given me even more confidence than I had before. So always, always, really make it a point to have a business savings account and business savings account. I mean it's great to have a savings account your personal but, as we discussed before, right when you're running your business, you really want to separate your accounts, exactly.  08:46 Into business checking and business savings and most banks right. If you're going to open up a business account with them, they're going to have options for you to open a business savings account.  09:01 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, and you really just kind of have between the personal savings and the business savings Because, as Danielle, I have my own personal savings for me and then the business that I'm running has its own savings account that I'm going to be able to utilize that money if I need it for any sort of business expenses, and keeping that separate. Going back to the basics of finance, keeping those two things separate really helps me out when it comes to tax time. It helps me out in the day-to-day running of my personal life and my business. So, yes, keeping them separate, and the same way that you keep your money separate from your business and your personal, keeping your savings account separate as well. And knowing what are you utilizing that savings for? Obviously, it's not meant to be used for everyday purposes, but what are the criteria for when you would need to dip into that savings account? Really just kind of having a plan for your money.  09:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, and it also helps in your financial well-being in terms of how banks perceive you. Your FICO score. All of that contributes. Right, these are your assets, right, this is money that you have. And it's one of those things when I spoke to you about making that $500 stock investment in the company that I worked for, right, and I just forgot about it because it was, I considered it my spare change and I'm just going to put it in and, well, I'm going to look at it, but I'm not going to obsess over it and just kind of forget about it. And the nice thing is, when you have it in a bank, that when they want your business, they're going to offer you perks of that, and so high yield savings is one of them, and so that money just grows, right, I can just put it in there and it just grows. And when I look at the monthly statement and I say, whoa, look at how much interest I got this month.  10:39 It makes me want to put more into it. It makes me want to find ways to put more into it. And when you're talking about manifesting abundance and you're talking about positive things that spur you on and having faith and thinking in terms of having abundance, that is really helps. I'll tell you, when you're looking at that account and it keeps growing, that can really be a big mental help to you feeling successful in terms of your business.  11:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's the evidence right. It's the evidence that what you are doing and what you've been doing is working and that it's growing. So, having that sort of tangible you know the statement to see I put this much money in and this is how much my money made, without really me doing anything other than putting that money into this account, it's evidence that what you're doing is working and to keep going.  11:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's not like you're taking a risk like the stock market. You're investing yourself in your business, exactly, so it's a fairly stable. Unless the bank goes under right, it's a fairly stable yeah well, that's a whole nother podcast but it's a fairly stable way to grow your money.  11:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right and also to grow your confidence. I really love that and I think it's really important the distinction of, yes, you're growing your business, but also you're growing your confidence and you're growing your ability in your business to grow and invest and take risks, which helps you potentially grow your business. You're investing in your confidence, not just monetarily, but in that emotional feeling of security that only you can give yourself. It's a big deal.  12:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it doesn't take much.  12:10 I mean, bosses, you're already risk takers, right, because you've decided to get into voiceover, you've decided to become an entrepreneur, you've decided to start a business.  12:18 This is just another aspect of it, and it's an aspect of it that can give you that cushion to weather all types of storms that can happen within your business. There's just so many people I know that are like they gave it all up to invest in voiceover but yet they don't necessarily have savings. And I know as a coach, when I'm talking to students that want to get into this industry, and there's a lot of people during the pandemic right that lost their jobs, that wanted quick money, and I was careful to say that voiceover does require an investment. It's not that you're going to be able to make quick money right away, and we all know that those of us that have been in the industry, this is the same kind of thing, really that you want to make sure that you've taken the risks and now you've got another savings account that can help you survive and weather those storms as you move forward in your business.  13:06 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's infrastructure. It's setting up the infrastructure for the what-ifs or what could happen in your business and it's creating sort of more cushion for yourself, just in case things happen. Also, saving maybe totally different, but saving for things that you need to do in your business. Maybe it's setting aside a certain amount of money for taxes, maybe it's setting aside a certain amount of money because you want to attend conferences and you need to travel and take the time away. That can be part of the business savings. But I think making sure that you have the mindset that the money that is coming into your business, not all of it, needs to be spent or used now you do need to put a certain amount of money aside for certain things taxes, education, investing in your business, investing in yourself in the lean times and in the slower times. It's really looking at what is happening in your business and creating the infrastructure for what could happen.  14:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know, what else is interesting too is that with some banks, they'll give you more benefits, right, the more you have. So if you open up this type of business savings account, you need to maintain a certain amount of money in there, and when you do that, you'll get free checking, you'll get a lower interest, credit card from them, all types of things, different perks, you'll get 3% back or you'll get money back, and so it behooves you to do that, because they're also offering you incentives to kind of keep money in that savings account, right, and you're not going to just have it to like blow in the first month on a new microphone or a new demo, but to maintain funds in there, right, so that you can keep up the benefits.  14:40 - Intro (Announcement) And so.  14:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. There's like a double incentive. Really it's nice to have that cushion and then you'd want to keep it in there, and it's not like we haven't really discussed retirement funds or mutual funds or anything like that, and again, we're not financial advisors. However, they work differently, where, if you keep the money in there for a certain amount of time, or you're required to keep money in there for a certain amount of time or until you reach a certain age as retirement.  15:04 A business savings account is simply just a business savings account where you're not penalized if you have to take money out. So I think it's got like everything in it. You know what I mean? It's got that added cushion security. You get benefits if you keep more in it, but yet you're not penalized if you have to take out of it. Necessarily.  15:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, it's access, potentially very quick access to the money that you have that you've put aside for whatever it is that you are saving for. I think it's important to have access to the sort of quick access to the account, so like a business savings account and then other more long-term, like you were discussing you know we're not financial advisors but having access to your money for retirement or things like that. It's really important to have the infrastructure for short-term, medium-term and long-term savings.  15:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, especially because, as entrepreneurs, you're not necessarily contributing to a pension fund from your own business, right? There's a lot of people that we haven't even really talked. We'll probably have an entire podcast dedicated to retirement, but you probably are not thinking about contributing to a retirement fund, so this can be one step towards money that can go into that Although I do think that's another separate podcast episode that we need to talk about because I'm very lucky because I have a pension coming from my experience in education and my husband has a pension fund coming from a job that he worked for previously. So when we retire, we're going to have that money, and so I'm not necessarily contributing to a quote unquote retirement fund.  16:38 But I do have mutual funds through my financial advisor that I'm investing money in, and I have an independent retirement fund that I basically take $100 a month for that particular account, and I would recommend that as well for anybody that is not necessarily have a retirement fund, because all of a sudden, you're going to be at retirement age and you're going to be like oh, wait, a minute, I don't have. Where's that money? Do I have money in savings? Do I have that money in a fund that can help support me when I'm no longer working and most people say, well, I could work in voiceover forever. But I mean, look, I love voiceover but I'm not going to work in it forever. I mean, at some point my voice will crack and sound old and I'm going to be tired. I'll be happily traveling the world living off my savings slash retirement because I invested.  17:27 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Now so it's something bossy. You're painting a wonderful picture of your life, and I'm just like me too. That's it. That's what I want to do.  17:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm going to be traveling the world and it's because I'm thinking now about those things, right, and of course, in reality we should have been thinking about it and people tell you all the time, right, Thinking about retirement when you're like 18.  17:47 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But think about savings.  17:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Best time to save and invest is yesterday and next best time is now and so, in terms of some people were like, well, I just don't have it right To invest in savings. And again, if you are in voiceover and you're living paycheck to paycheck, really consider thinking about that. You know, I mean, and I did it when I first started full-time in voiceover, I had a part-time job.  18:09 I worked my butt off contributing and saving and having a fund so that I could ultimately, when it got to the point where I was making more money doing voiceover, I could ultimately stop that part-time job, but I do encourage all of you if you are living paycheck to paycheck on voiceover, maybe it's time to consider a job that will bring in some steady income that you can put into a savings account.  18:31 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly have something that will help invest, input capital into your life and to your business. This is a long process. Entrepreneurship is a marathon and you have to learn how to pivot as time goes on, and maybe that means that you need to bring in something that will help bring in capital to your life and your business. Maybe that's a part-time job, maybe it's freelancing, maybe it's figuring out how you can pivot to make money elsewhere. Whatever it is being able to have again, the infrastructure of savings around you is incredibly important because it's a long game and there's nothing wrong nothing at all wrong with having outside resources. That's bringing you in money outside of voiceover.  19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Gosh, no, I mean I was just talking to somebody the other day. I always talk about my Chanel lipstick or whatever it is, but I love fashion, right, and so if I love something like that and I'm spending a lot of money on clothes because I recently did lose a little bit of weight, so congratulations.  19:32 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh, thank you.  19:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I mean, what's wrong with finding something that brings me joy? So maybe I'll be an affiliate or I will do some form of my business that will allow companies to maybe send me free clothes or make some money off of the clothes that I buy so I can buy more clothes. So it's that kind of a mentality. And I'm still doing voiceover. I'm still a coach, I'm still, but I happen to love fashion. So I just added that kind of to my alternate. This is what Anne's going to do on her free time. Maybe I can make a couple extra dollars that I can put into that high yield savings account and have fun along the way, right? Yeah, so it really is. I think, up to us as entrepreneurs, right? There's nothing saying you have to do 24-7 of voiceover in order to have a successful business.  20:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. What can you do and how can you do it that will bring money into your ecosystem, your business, your life, so that you can use that money to fund really everything else about your life. And that means also saving, because saving is really just putting money aside for future you so that future you can benefit. That's right. It's also a discipline too. For me it's been a discipline of looking at the amount of money that I have access to and dedicating some of those funds to my longer term savings maybe retirement or maybe, as you were talking about, mutual funds and investments but also to my business high yield savings account, to my business account, because I know that one day I will need access to that money.  21:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and a lot of times the banks will make it very easy. You can have it $100 or $50 or $25 or $500, whatever it is on a monthly basis, literally just streamed into those accounts, into your savings account, into your retirement fund, whatever it is, it can be done automatically, so you don't even see it. It's like when you worked for my company and they would ultimately take out so much money for retirement or whatever it is, automatically and then match that back in the day when companies did that. Very few companies do that anymore, but it's similar to that. So when it's taken out automatically, you don't necessarily notice it. So try to implement those things right so that you can contribute regularly and consistently to a savings account, so that you can have that money for when you want to go travel or retire from whatever it is you're doing.  21:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I will tell you that automation is the way that I was able to consistently put the money in savings in the first place.  21:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's hard when you manually have to do it, you know.  21:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Because it takes away the human element. The human has emotions about money and may not want to put that money in these accounts. Oh, so true. The automation doesn't have that, so it's going to continue to do what you've set it up to do, and actually that's how you get the result that you're wanting when you take away the human element.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love how you said that there's the emotional element to money, and again, we could write a book on that right there's an emotional element to money.  22:24 In so many ways. We have such a connection to it, whether we want to or not, right? I mean, it's how there's a roof over my head, it's how I afford this microphone, it's how I can afford to put clothes on my body and food in my body, and so there is a lot of emotion tied around money. So if you can make that emotion as painless and as easy, and even as possible.  22:48 Yeah, make it invisible, I mean. And they also say that one of the most frequent causes for divorce is financial right Issues and troubles. So if you can make it easy and seamless, why not? And a business savings account for me, having it taken out automatically, having my money grow on a monthly basis and being encouraged and inspired to contribute on a regular basis to it, it's a no brainer. It should be a no brainer, I think, for everybody that wants to run a successful business.  23:16 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, and it's a tool to be able to utilize and run your business successfully. It's just another thing, it's another tool in the tool belt. It's a way to help you feel more confident when times are a little bit tougher, and it's a way to know that you can fund the business that you are running. It's invaluable. I love it.  23:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And again, we both decided early on bosses that we could just spend 27 minutes saying I love my high yield savings account.  23:43 - Intro (Announcement) I love my high yield savings account.  23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love my high yield savings account Again, not that we're trying to push anything on you, but we are not financial advisors. How many times do I have to say that to this time? But no, really, I mean it's the most amazing thing, because I'd been sitting there for years, like literally for years, watching getting pennies, like every month, in my bank account. I'm like what happened? It used to be the banks were like here, we're going to give you so much percent each month for keeping this money in our bank, and it just became a little bit different until, like you said, the online banks who don't have the overhead costs of brick and mortar, can offer those things right and again.  24:16 And my bank has really upped its game too, by the way, because when I told them about my high yield savings account, I said, well, why are you not matching that? And so they actually came up with because I wanted to have a business savings account as well as a high yield business savings account. Right, with them, they upped their game. So it's something you can actually talk to your bank about and say look, why can't you offer me this amount of interest? A lot of times? Banks, if they want your business, they're going to work with you.  24:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So yeah, and also just educating yourself of what is out there. To be completely honest with you, for the longest time and for me, coming from a musical theater background I never, ever, ever considered what I would need to do to have savings for my business. The education for me happened from my personal life, for personal finance and then bringing that into how I'm running my business. But, to be honest with you, for me I wasn't even really thinking about savings because I was just looking at what was coming in. I need this money now, okay.  25:16 It kind of just kept cycling through the moment, but really stopping and taking a look and saying, okay, I can be the person to fund my level of confidence and security when I'm in an industry that is volatile sometimes. That is a complete game changer and it requires thinking about things differently, but it also requires educating yourself of what options are out there for you to be able to do that.  25:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And bosses repeat after us like I love money, right, danielle? I think the two of us could just say I love money, I love money.  25:48 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I love money.  25:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is our emotional attachment, right? We just said that there's a lot of emotion attached to it. I love money, and so if I didn't love money, if I hated money, it would not want to come into my life, right? I mean, I can't be hating things that I want to manifest, hating things that I want to manifest, and so I love my relationship with money. And at times, yes, it's tough that it runs the world, it's tough that I have to spend so much on a monthly basis to put the roof over my head or that oh my gosh, you know how much is food these days. It can be frustrating at times, but in reality, my relationship with money is to have a love affair with it so that I can manifest it in abundance.  26:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, and a love affair that is not fear. Yeah, because when you're running away from something, even if it's trying to catch you, then it really seems like it's just chasing after you. So a love affair and being open to it and wanting it, and wanting to learn about it, and wanting to invest the time into it. I love money too, anne. I think we I love money too.  26:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. That's it. We can go home High-yield savings account and we love money. There you go, bosses. What a great conversation. Again, we could say this 500 more times, but I think you guys get the point. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect, network, make money like bosses and find out more at IPDTLcom. There you go, you guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  27:10 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a bosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, ever feel overwhelmed by marketing? I get it. Let's tackle it together with a VO Boss Blast. We're all about making marketing as enjoyable as voice acting itself. Dive in with me and let's blast off together and let's turn those marketing challenges into victories. Sign up today at VOBoss.com.  00:27 - Tolu Kolade (Ad) Hi Anne. My name is Tolu Kolade. I am a Nigerian and I love your podcast. I listen every week. I discovered it last year and I must say it has been an incredible eye-opener for me, helping me to get better in my craft, even as an Nigerian and an African. There are many tips that are so useful for me and, guess what? You inspired me to also create my own podcast, which is also based on voiceovers. So I love what you do and keep doing what you do, thank you.  01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a vo boss.  01:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) ! hey everyone, welcome to the VO BOSS podcast and the boss superpower series. I'm your host Anne Ganguzza and I'm here with the very lovely Lau Lapides today. Hey, annie, so happy to be here. As always, law, you look lovely.  01:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Thank you gorgeous today. You do too. We're getting ready for summer that's right.  01:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's right. You know it's funny because I just celebrated my eighth year for VO Boss. Woohoo, woohoo, yeah, eighth year and things have changed. I'll tell you what in podcasting and, of course, in our own industry, but I used to only do this audio. But the way technology has evolved I mean, everything is video content and on camera and it just has changed. So we have to be prepared not just for doing the voice, but I had to do my hair this morning and do the color coordination and the outfit, so wait are you trying to tell me that you may have to be on camera?  02:16 yes, we may have to be on camera as voice actors, and that's like remember everybody in the beginning I got into voiceover so that I didn't have to show my face. But guess what, guys? There's an entire world of opportunities that law firsthand can talk about in terms of casting right and on-camera work.  02:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and you can talk about it too, because you're always webcasting. This is true Podcasting and on-camera social media.  02:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Content Casting with.  02:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Zoom, I mean it's endless. On-camera social media on-casting with Zoom, I mean it's endless. We are on, on, on camera and we were just talking about this before and I think it's really important for voiceover talent at all levels to be thinking about potentially nabbing some on-camera work. Yeah, Really, the opportunities are there, they're vast. Yes, it gets slow and there's ebbs and flows, just like there are in voiceover.  03:04 But if you are going to reach out, say, for instance, to an agency, and you say, well, I want to get some more reps or I need a rep.  03:10 I don't even have a rep, how do I do it? One of your checkboxes, if you can, is the fact that you are able, capable and willing and wanting to do on-camera work, because a lot of the agencies, especially the boutique agencies, will sign you what they call across the board, meaning they're interested in you as a voiceover talent, but they also want to know you can do on-camera commercial work or print work or anything that has to do with, maybe, a non-broadcast industrial. So I would say I mean one of the things I always say to our coaching clients is think about it. If you absolutely do not want to be doing it, be honest and don't do it, because there's a huge line behind you of actors that want to do it. Yeah, absolutely. And we convert many voiceover talent to also do on camera and have that combo on their resume and they love it. And oftentimes they say, oh, I had no idea how fun this was, I thought I had a face for radio. And I say you have to retire that old, stupid phrase.  04:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, it is old and stupid.  04:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're absolutely right, and let me tell you the stranger, you look the odder, you look the more real, you look the more work you get. You're going to get more work than a supermodel.  04:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, the more desirable you are. Absolutely Flaws and everything, guys. I mean I actually love that the camera is embracing these things now, because real people, right, real people.  04:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Real people. There's an agency in New York, Annie, that's pretty hip. It's called Funny Faces and they represent only real people. Now, those are actors still. They're trained actors. But they're actors that specifically do not look like model types, which is most actors and they're getting most of the work because they want just like in voiceover today they want real people. They want real people who look like real people and who sound like real people.  05:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I love that. So I would have my students say to me oh gosh, I thought I was just training for voiceover. I just spent all this money training for voiceover. What do I have to do for on-camera?  05:21 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) law. One thing I would say is and I hear this a lot, I've heard this for years and years is oh, that's an interesting idea, I wouldn't mind doing that. I mean, if they asked me, I'd say I wouldn't mind it. I'd say listen, don't ever come into it that way, Because I wouldn't mind. It is like saying yeah is like saying you know, yeah, would you clean up the table? I don't mind cleaning up the table. No, you have to have some passion for it. You have to have some real wanting to do it Because, just like in voiceover, you're up against trained actors. You're up against people who really are dying for jobs and want the job.  05:55 So you really want to have. Find that in you. Test it, train Coach number one, just like in everything we say. Coach for acting for on camera. Take some improv classes. Make sure you're in a few acting classes, that you're having fun. You must have fun. If it's against your grain, if it's like taking medicine when you're sick, don't do it. You really have to do it. If you're saying, oh, this is kind of enjoyable, it's kind of sassy, I'm having a good time with that, or all right, you have to come into it with the right spirit and the right positive mindset, otherwise it's like don't do us any favors because you're not doing us any favors. We can find and work with trained actors very, very easily. So come in with a good attitude, coach, and take your classes. Start thinking right away about getting involved with films, student films, independent films. It's not about money at that point.  06:50 It's about building an actor real and building your resume and getting some experience in front of the camera.  06:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Certainly, theater if you're interested in theater, great, but that's a different path and how simple is it now, with social media and our iPhones, that we can get comfortable in front of the camera. And it is a thing, guys, because I know when I first started getting out there, okay, you've got to look at the camera, like right now I'm looking at the camera and I want to look at law on the screen in front of me, but no, I have to look at my camera because that's where my eyes go and so, like little things like that, and then just being able to be yourself, being able to go off script, being able to be on script and sound natural, and to just have that again, that authentic, you come out, gosh. We have all the time in the world and all the resources at our fingertips to start to see if maybe that's something we're comfortable with.  07:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So true and one of the things that people don't realize is 90% of your casting for on camera is the way you look. Maybe 95% is the way you look. It doesn't mean you don't have to have talent you do. It just means they're going to cast you first on your physical type and then they're going to see what you're bringing to the table. So working on memorization is a big deal. That's really part of your job. To memorize scripts, learning how to use a teleprompter on their laptop, which is a wonderful skill to learn. If anything, it focuses your brain and keeps you very calm. There's just some interesting skills that are going to help you in your voiceover, your character building, your analysis of a script of a character.  08:26 You're thinking fast on your feet in improv. How do I create off other people and really acutely listen to what they're saying to me and really be able to create? I'll tell you, I know firsthand that when you're in a film, set or TV— Listen without interrupting.  08:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Written on my shirt Listen, Listen to my breast without interrupting. I know, and I just interrupted you while I said that. So See how I took my own advice yeah, there we go, that's great, that's great.  08:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But I mean, I'll tell you, especially with the younger generation coming up, annie, the directors are different nowadays, like they are really wanting actors to come in and be prepared and give them ideas, give them characters, give them stuff that they can have fun with, steal and run away with and enjoy with you. Hasn't that always been?  09:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the way I feel like that's always been.  09:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I feel like in voiceover.  09:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People are always like well, why do they write the script like that when they want us to be real? Well, because I think they want to hear your interpretation of it, and so I think half the time those scripts are written with an intensive purpose yes, to make you get creative and really figure out how you're going to tell that story, even though you have no idea what those words mean. That's really what it is, and a lot of those directors.  09:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) No commentary on them, in particular, on that generation in particular. They're not trained to train you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you. They're trained to cast you and to have you get as close to the role as possible. Where they're tweaking you, they're doing adjustments with you. They don't want to give you the character, they don't want to build you from the ground up. They don't want to give you an acting class. They want you to make yeah, it is like voiceover. They want you to make life easy for them, fast. For them, time is money. They're renting equipment from houses. They don't want to have that extra day of shooting and oftentimes you won't even meet the actors until the day of the shoot.  10:19 That's your husband, that's your child, that's your—so you have to learn. That's why we always say take improv, take improv. Because you have to learn to say oh, annie is now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover, now your therapist. Oh, anne's now your sister. Oh, anne's now your lover. Whatever, you have to learn to buy into it very quick and say yes and yes and yes and and for the voiceover on a script. I think it's invaluable because it really allows you to walk into the world of the copy very fast.  10:47 Oh, absolutely, and not second guess it quite as much as we would, as us but to say, okay, well, you know, mcdonald's could be in a fairy tale land. Sure, why not, you know?  10:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I talk to people all the time and my voiceover students all the time about the script and I'm like how many times do you run into your studio and you simply recite the words in a melody that you hear in your head without understanding the story behind it? And when there are words that come up and you're like I have no idea what that means, you just say them, and when you say them with no point of view, you haven't been able to tell a story, you haven't shown that you've done the work. And that's why, when you audition and you can come in with that story and that point of view and you've got that improv, that subtextual understanding, that character backstory, you've got that all figured out, even for an e-learning module I'm just saying Even for corporate then they know that you're an actor and they know that they can cast you and direct you to just about anything and that is the work that we actors must do and if we do that work in voiceover, it's absolutely plausible and possible for you to do it on camera, no question.  11:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And there is that spirit that actors talk about, that takes them over, where it goes from words on a page I'm comprehending it, I'm analyzing it, I'm trying to understand it and profile it to oh, this interpretation that comes over you, that starts to personalize from your reservoir, your emotional reservoir. Well, we're always asking for that in voiceover too. Like, how do I personalize the script, how do I get to my reservoir of tone and emotion so that I don't get sing-songy and I don't fall into cadence and rhythm? It's what a lot of our agents in casting say after they audition talent. That person is not connected.  12:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, you need to be connected. You need to be connected. I kind of keep bringing this back to voiceover, sorry, because there's so many parallels where so many people will complain the way the script is written. I'm like that's not your job to complain about how the script is written. I mean, it's your job as an actor to interpret that script and to interpret that script in a way that makes it authentic and believable.  12:57 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, and the reality is, if you really don't like it and you have a right to disagree with it, not like it or just not want to do it then don't do it, rather than coming into the job and saying, well, why is it written this way and why?  13:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) is it?  13:10 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) this way. Well then, already I'm not open to the job, I'm really not open to the job. So we always say when you're coming into a role, don't judge it, don't adjudicate it, don't make commentary on it, as you, as the actor, just try to engage, try to communicate with it, try to personalize it in every way you can, as quickly as possible.  13:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, yes, and that takes practice and we had another podcast that we talked about the amount of work that it takes. Right, that takes practice to do that, to understand that, to do the analysis, to get the acting to understand the subtext and to really do the preparation needed to execute voiceover or on camera, that acting, so that it is something successful for you.  13:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I hear voiceover talent all the time say things like well, this is hard. I would never, say this.  14:02 I would never say this. I said because this isn't you saying this, this is someone else saying this. You're embodying the spirit of someone else. You really are. I mean, we're not asking you to say this or feel this in your kitchen. We're asking you to do this as part of your job. So if you say, well, as part of my job, I'm capable of doing this and this could possibly happen, Well then you open the door Psychologically. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. You open the door to really authentically, authentically playing it. Yeah, absolutely, Because you've already bought into the idea that this could happen. This way.  14:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, you have to buy into the idea. I love that.  14:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You have to buy into it.  14:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have to buy into the idea.  14:44 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's why acting is so fun. Even if you never do anything on camera related or theater related, still do acting class, do improv, do everything you can because it shifts your mindset into a more playful fun place.  15:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that. And so what advice would you give people that are in voiceover that want to expand into on-camera? First and foremost, what do they need to do? Who do they need to contact? What classes would they take right? Do they need a reel? What are the essentials?  15:17 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right, well, our studio does these. I mean, many studios do classes. Now we do our online, of course. I would say one thing, though if you can take an in-studio class in your city, in your town, in your state, definitely do it, because it's a different experience when you're physically in a room with people as an actor versus online. And I would say, do both, because being online is great too. We get to see you on camera, you get to see what it's like just dealing with all the technical elements on camera, but I would also say, be in a room with people as well, see how you like it.  15:50 You have to feel it out, and I would also coach in it as well, so that you can understand audition material. You can see what your type is Similar to voiceover, right, like what is a realistic type for me to go after? What are the different genres I might be interested in? And then, what is an actor reel? How do I build an actor reel? That's all video-based. How do I put that together? What does actors access and casting networks have to do with it? This is before you seek representation. Do not seek representation until you get your trade down, like voiceover. You really have to have the background of understanding an actor's vocabulary. Once you get that actor's vocabulary and you know that, oh, if I go after a commercial, they're going to expect me to memorize the script, I know that. So this is the vocabulary that we speak of. And then you've got to have practice time, practice rehearsal, coaching, classwork. Now.  16:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) La, let's distinguish. I want to hear from you. I know how to distinguish. In my words, how do you distinguish on camera from, let's say, on stage, oh, it's a totally different world in the sense that they're both highly technical worlds.  17:14 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But it's a different kind of commitment when you do theater, because theater oftentimes is longer, it takes a longer time to rehearse, oftentimes, the performance runs are longer and you have to physically be somewhere in person for a length of time. That can be difficult for theater. That's what they do. They're artists oftentimes, so you should experience that too. Like again go take a stand-up class, go take an improv class, go take something that's short-term, where you're live and you get to be on a stage or you get to be in a studio.  17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So if you are a theater actor, is it easy to transition to on camera? That's a question I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover.  17:41 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would get from my students, because I have a lot of theater students that come into voiceover. You know what? I don't know. I don't overthink that. I think that there's too much chat about that when really excellent actors, like all the Hollywood actors we know and love, all started out in theater. Almost all of them started out in theater and they found ways, as they worked, as they auditioned, to transition, to internalize emotion, to not allow as many physical gyration and physical largeness to happen, but I wouldn't overanalyze it because I think it's a very interesting craft.  18:11 It's a craft and it's one that you learn as you do it. You have to do it to really learn how to do it. You have to work with different directors, different crews, different folks to see how do they see you Similar to voiceover how do they hear you, how do they see you and really start buying into the archetypes that they're seeing you as Like. If I get called out for a role, I'm almost always being called out for some sort of mother role yeah, almost always. So I'm seen as that archetype of that, whatever that is, and then there's all sorts of variations on that theme.  18:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So really have fun with that you know, it's so interesting because a lot of my theater actor students will come to me and then they'll find it somewhat difficult to transition because now that they're behind a microphone they don't have another physical presence to play off of, but they have to bring that imaginary physical presence into the booth with them.  19:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's exactly right. That's exactly right and that's the thing. I think that's hard for theater actors Some transition well and some do not transition well because they're used to ensemble style rehearsal, so they're used to showing up. There are other people there. You've got a director and they've got energy back and forth.  19:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, that's something you've got to create in the booth, and same thing with on camera. Even on camera, I mean, there's energy of people maybe behind the camera or maybe energy of people within the scene that you're working with, but a lot of times if you're just being a a one person on camera talent, you've got to play to that camera. So you do and you have to show up prepared.  19:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So when you go in, you have to assume OK, they have X amount of time, they're renting equipment, they're renting location, they're doing all these things so that they can help me shine. I have to know my lines, I have to know what playing a mother is, and then I meet the other actors. So I have to do all that work before I even get on the set, and that's very different than theater, whereas theater is much more organic. You come in and you do your table, read, you discuss it, you grow the characters together. It's a very different kind of process and that's why people love theater and they get addicted to theater.  20:20 Sure, absolutely, because they want that energy back and forth, that energy give and take.  20:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's so interesting because in all of the voiceover theater on camera there are all the similarities in the acting. It's just physically and mentally what you need to do slightly different to get to a place in either one. It's all incredible. All being said, you got to be an actor. So what a great, interesting conversation today, law. Thank you so much for your input and your wisdom on that.  20:47 I love it. Bosses, think about this as a way to maybe expand in your business, and, of course, it's always great to expand your actor skills. It will all help you in the booth in the end. So, absolutely so. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and communicate like pros like Law and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week. Love you guys.  21:16 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL coast connectivity via ipdtl.  21:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, I'm so excited to announce our third audition demolition coming up live september 27th, and our uh diet. Ugh, oh shit, all right, damn it. Good morning, kiss me off. That was good too, I know, fucking shit. Audition deadline the 20th Okay, september 27th. All right, that's my problem. I have it written here, but I just don't have it in front of my face, so That'll end up in bloopers next time, ugh.   

00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Let's create your next demo together. As an award-winning demo producer, I'll work closely with you to craft a demo reel that showcases your unique talents and strengths. My personalized approach is going to ensure that your demo stands out from the crowd and gets you booked. Book a free 20-minute consult today and get started at annganguzacom.  00:27 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nn Ganguza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am delighted to bring back to the show for our Real Boss series, Mr Tom Deere. Hi, Hi.  00:58 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Tom Hi, hi hi.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hi Tom Dheere, Real Boss, Tom Dheere.  01:01 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, Real Boss and Ganguza. Always great to talk to you.  01:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You too. You know, tom, it's been a week. Oh yeah, yeah, it's been a week, for some reason. I gave a couple of workshops and I've talked to a few people that have just started out in this industry and a few people that have been in the industry for a couple of years, and I constantly I know you hear this all the time because you're the VO strategist I constantly get people who are just so frustrated and they can't get work and they want to give up, and I don't know how many times I can say it's hard, guys. I mean, it just is hard. The work doesn't just come easily, and I feel as though we need to spread some encouragement out there for those bosses who are wondering what's going on. What did I just do? Am I embarking on a career and I'm not seeing any work coming in?  01:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But I think we need to maybe get real, tom yeah, and talk to our bosses, okay, well, the first thing I want to say on that is that for those of you who have put more than one cent, more than zero cents, into trying to become a voice actor, congratulations.  02:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah.  02:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) You should be Absolutely Praised and applauded for putting out money and money. You know money is money. Money is obviously what it is, but it's also what it represents. Spending money always represents an investment of some kind, whether it's buying a piece of bubble gum or a new car. Is that you're investing in this thing that you hope will make you happier or make your life easier or move your life forward in some way. So that's encouragement nugget number one. Be proud of yourself. Be proud of yourself that you're watching this video at all bosses. Be proud that you're taking the time out of your very busy day to learn ways to move your voiceover business forward. So just the fact that you're listening to this at all should be applauded.  02:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And even if we back up further, I mean, first of all, congratulations on actually taking the step to being an entrepreneur. I mean, really, that's like step number one is that you had to make a decision, that you wanted to go into business for yourself, and that is something that the majority of people don't do. And so for those that do, take that leap of faith and say I am going to start a business, that is to be commended. That is to be commended. It takes bravery, it takes courage and, again, as Tom said, with the investment, that's a risk. So right now, right off the bat, you've taken risks that you're not quite sure if they're going to pay off or not.  03:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right, and Anne and I will not blow sunshine up your nose and tell you that everybody who works with us or wants to be a voice actor has a 100% chance of becoming a voice actor, because that's just not the reality. But Anne and I do everything in our power to set you up for success so you can make all of your dreams come true of being whatever kind of voice actor is your perfect voice over day, whether it's an e-learning narrator or a cartoon narrator or an audiobook narrator or what have you. But putting yourself out there and saying, I'm going to take this risk, I mean you should be commended on an internal level that you've made that decision. But here's the other thing and I have a lot of experience with this is all of the external factors that are telling you not to do it and you're like, screw you guys. I'm going to be a voice actor Because I had a lot of people in my life, professionally and personally, who didn't understand what I was trying to do Me too and didn't respect what I was trying to do and would mock me behind my back and to my face.  04:40 I remember I was a head host at the time the busiest Applebee's in the world and would mock me behind my back and to my face. I remember I was a head host at the time the busiest Applebee's in the world and I was the guy that ran the door and would get screamed at by everybody for how long it would take for them to get a table and I had some representation. I was booking work here and there, but not enough to leave my full-time job and a hater fellow employee got on the PA in the middle of a busy shift and said Tom, your agent's on line one and your mommy's on line two.  05:11 Click Ha ha, ha, ha ha. Yeah, that actually happened. I'm getting a little PTSD.  05:19 - Intro (Announcement) You know what I mean. There's a lot of haters out there.  05:21 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) There's a lot of people who are jealous because you are trying to make your dreams come true and either their dreams haven't come true or they don't have any dreams at all.  05:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up, tom. That's a really lovely perspective Because you're right, just that beginning step, taking that leap of faith and doing something when people assume that probably no, that's not going to work for you, and I think we've all encountered it. So, now that you've taken that step, right now, tom and I are here to encourage you, if it suits you, to encourage you not to give up, because, god, tom, it's hard, it's hard, it's hard, it's not easy. Does it get easier, tom? I don't know. I don't know.  06:00 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) No, it doesn't get any easier, Anne. It just becomes different types of hard. We've talked about this in previous videos, but the challenges that you have when you're early in your voiceover journey, which is I think, those are the toughest sometimes. They are the toughest because they play with your brain. They mess with your head.  06:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They mess with your head.  06:16 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) They mess with your head of? Do I have the ability to make money telling stories, which is really essentially what this is, which is the same problem that actors, stage and theater and on-camera actors have. It's the same problem that musicians have. Musicians are storytellers, you know, all forms of actors are storytellers. Can I make money telling stories? That's really what it comes down to, and many are called, few are chosen, but many are called. Few make the right choices and you, as VO bosses listening to this, are making the right choices.  06:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Few of them stick around right To discover that they did make a good choice. Right, because if you give up too soon, you never know. Right, and again I'll say, the departure from, let's say, corporate is huge. For this right, there's no stable paycheck coming in, and so I think that's a huge sticker shock for people because it's like well, all right, I've done the work, I've paid for coaching, I've got this great demo. Now where's the work?  07:22 And so you're not finished yet, right, that's just the first part, just the first part of your journey is the actual training and then the demo creation, and then, of course, you should always keep up your training, because things change and evolve and you always want to get better. But that's only the very beginning of your entrepreneurship and the beginning of your business. And so, as we mentioned, it does play with your head in the beginning, because a lot of times you're questioning well, do I have what it takes? Am I talented enough? Why am I not getting work? And so you really have to now, if you haven't gotten the proper coaching right, If you haven't spent more than oh, my goodness, I'm going to say you need to spend more than five or six hours coaching with someone before you can really embark on a successful voiceover journey. And we've said that over and over again but, also performance-wise, but also business-wise.  08:10 I mean, thomas, what you do? You help people set up businesses, like all the time. That's what you do, and so that is also a steep learning curve.  08:18 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It is a steep learning curve. I think one of the biggest challenges for people entering the voiceover industry is that they don't know what they don't know and they need to know. What do I need to have in place to start my voiceover business? So I talk about the four pillars. Every structure needs a solid foundation and in voiceover it's exactly what Anne said Quality training, a professionally produced demo, a setup, vetted home recording studio. And then that fourth pillar is a website, which that's a whole other video.  08:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's another podcast episode too.  08:52 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, that's another podcast episode right there. But to have those four pillars in place is critical. But the concrete that you pour, that is that foundation, is the business sense, the business acumen, the business plan. You can have the best demo in the world, but if you don't have a plan to market it effectively, the demo doesn't matter.  09:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And if nobody hears it, they can't buy.  09:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, you could have the best website in the world, but if you can't get anybody to it, it doesn't matter. So think about that. So many voice actors coming and put the cart before the horse. They decide they want to be a voice actor and then start buying a microphone or jumping on TikTok and making videos and it's like those things are important. But there's an order to do this, because the fact that you, as VO bosses, know what the basics are, what the foundation is training, demos, website, home recording and then pour the concrete of the business and then you can build the house, build the structure, build the business around that.  09:49 Having those things, now you know, are they perfect when you start out? No, do you sometimes need to start over again? Yes, you know what's the carpenter's rule Measure twice, cut once. A lot of times you don't do that, you just dive in with the buzzsaw and hope good things happen. So be encouraged if you have gotten training. Be encouraged if you've produced a demo with Anne or another great coach. Be encouraged if you've built the website. Be encouraged if you've got the basics of a home recording studio. If you've got that in place now you can start to really build and grow and make accurate assessments about who you are in the voiceover industry and how you're doing.  10:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And again, it takes that perseverance to understand that it's coming and it's not going to happen overnight. That overnight success took what? Over 10 years to cultivate.  10:41 In that respect, and I think about all of the people who I've known that have stuck it out and have grown. I've seen them grow in the industry, people that are just hot today in the voiceover industry because we've been gosh Tom, you and I have been around for a while. So I've seen people who when they started out, I was with them when they started out, as maybe they were a peep or maybe I worked with them a long time ago, and I'm not saying it's just me, but I mean I've had students that I've seen really stick it out, progress, do the work, and I've really seen them come into their own. But it did not happen in a year, two years. A lot of them have been on a journey for five, six, seven years and it's wonderful to see them really shine.  11:24 And I can name a few of people that I've seen shine. The other day, jen Henry right, I saw she got SAG-AFTRA status. And so there's Jen Henry, there's Stefan Johnson, there's Tawny Plattis, who have been at this for years, making content and not necessarily going out there and saying hire me, I'm a voice actor, but doing their thing and creating so much content so that it got their name out there right, and it got them noticed and then it got them hired, yeah.  11:53 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) We have to mention Danielle Fanball.  11:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely Danielle. I mean of course as well.  11:57 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) She was a student of mine a few years ago and she has just gone on to be a force in the voiceover industry, getting a high-quality representation, working with tons of clients and all kinds of great projects. She's a perfect example of that as someone who came into the industry hungry, open-minded. She just knocked my socks off, she knocked my socks off.  12:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, as a matter of fact, we're doing guys if you haven't checked it out the Boss Money series with Danielle. She is not only super talented, voiceover wise, but she's got a very savvy business mind. And we do a series on just talking about money, because that is another point where people can sabotage themselves in the whole money area, absolutely.  12:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Here's the thing about that, anne, is that your relationship with money is critical to your success as a voice actor. And I don't just mean having it, I mean having it is obviously important to invest and reinvest in your voiceover.  12:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm glad you're speaking about it.  12:48 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, some people were trained to hate money, some people were trained to be afraid of money, some people were trained to covet money. Some people were trained to not care about money in the house, at school, at their place of worship, among their friends and relatives. And so often you're fighting against the tide of all the preconceived notions that you have about the voiceover industry and about money. Here's the biggest one, anne, is that employees work for money. Yeah, absolutely, self-employed voice actors make money, work for them. That's Robert Kiyosaki, rich.  13:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Dad, Poor Dad stuff. I love that.  13:26 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Learn to make your money work for you and with you. Learn to have a synergistic relationship with money and your attitude about money when it comes to, obviously, spending it, making it and, most importantly, how to save and invest it in your voiceover career. On a short-term level, you know training, which is also a form of long-term, but also on a long-term, like investing in retirement and long-term investment plans and things like that. So if you are educating yourself, bosses, on what it means to have, make and spend and invest money, you are setting yourself up for success. So, any class you can take with me or with Anne, or any YouTube video that you can watch about investing, empower yourself. Oh my.  14:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God, and that's the biggest thing, how to empower yourself. And I feel like compelled, as I'm thinking of this, to offer more examples. Christina Milizia, as I'm thinking of this, to offer more examples. Christina Milizia gosh, talented from the get-go. I mean, she's been doing voiceover for gosh. How many years? 30 years, over 30 years.  14:28 - Intro (Announcement) A long time.  14:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I know that she always had her sights set on being in animation and she really has taken off, but it took her many, many years to get there and she was super talented from the get-go. So, christina Melissa, lila Berzins I mean my gosh, I remember talking to Lila. She was a peep of mine a long time ago and she was just so talented and yet she was always wondering how can I get work, how can I get work? How can I get work and she's so talented? And now, man, she's like so hot and all these people that I'm just so happy for that. They had the gumption to just keep pushing forward, keep doing the work, keep marketing and just keep plugging away and ultimately finding their way in this industry so that they're really reaping the rewards and the benefits.  15:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) What all of these fabulous voice actors that you mentioned just now have in common is that they're hungry, they're persistent and they're consistent. Yes, absolutely To be consistent in the voiceover industry with your efforts. You need to be relentless. The voiceover industry does not care how tired you are.  15:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  15:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) They don't care what's going on in your life.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It doesn't care about the drama in your life. It really doesn't.  15:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Nope, nope, nope, nope. You either have to learn to put the drama aside or use whatever energy that you get from the drama that's going on in your life and learn how to channel it into something positive or at least consistent. Like I have anxiety. Yeah, I have diagnosed anxiety and I have turned it into a superpower. Anxiety is the fear of not knowing what's going to happen next. You worry and fret about whatever usually social, interpersonal situations or things like that. But as a result of me getting lots and lots of great therapy and just being around and sticking around, I've learned how to turn my anxiety into a superpower, because I'm prepared for everything.  16:22 I'm a firm advocate of Murphy's law Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. So I have all of these tools logistical, physical, environmental, financial, mental, emotional, psychological to anticipate any problems that may arise in my voiceover career, and I am prepared. So if the worst thing that I can think of happens and I'm ready for it it and I am prepared. So if the worst thing that I can think of happens, and I'm ready for it, it's going to be okay. So I turned a disadvantage of mine into an advantage, and you can do that too. All of you can do that too. All of you have your own hangups, anxieties, worries, fears, physical or mental or psychological challenges, but you can either figure out how to overcome them, set them aside or harness them, use them to enhance your voiceover career and enhance your efforts and your results.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think also too, is be aware. Be aware of the industry. I mean, be aware of trends in the industry, and not just trends in voiceover industry, but be aware of customers who want to purchase your voice. Be aware of what they want, be aware of what their needs are and really take some time to investigate.  17:24 I don't know many people that take it upon themselves to investigate the market right. So many people are like I've got a great commercial demo, I've got a great animation demo, I've got a great oh gosh. If I could give a nickel for the time somebody said I want to do museum tours, if I could give a nickel for the time somebody said I want to do museum tours or I want to do history. But I implore you, I implore you bosses and I'm not saying you can't do museum tours or be history documentarian I implore you to understand the market size, okay, of how many museums are there, and I'm just using this as an example how many museums are there right in the United States and, by the way, I Googled this just the other day there's about 35,000.  18:03 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Okay, I was just about to Google that. Thanks for doing the work.  18:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So how often are there new exhibits that might require voiceover? Okay, not that often, because there's a season for exhibits right in museums A lot of times. It's historical, it's been there forever and probably they've got a voice that has been the voice and they've got that system that you put on the headphones and they've had a voiceover there and so they probably don't need to change it if the history hasn't changed, right about it.  18:32 And so if you put all those things together and you say okay, so how many opportunities do I have to become a narrator for museum tours? Right, that's not a huge market compared to again, I always tell people corporate, because that's my shtick but corporate 30.4 million registered companies. They all need to sell a product. They all need to train somebody on that product and or a customer on that product. They need to train their internal staff on safety policies and HR procedures and also how to sell their product. So that's a lot of opportunities. So if you want to know why work isn't coming your way and maybe you've spent all of your money on just the smaller markets, consider really investing time. It doesn't take a lot right to investigate the market for things. All I did was Google how many museums are there in the United States and then think about it how often are they going to need a voice?  19:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yeah, one thing that a lot of voice actors do early in their journey is disqualify themselves from work that doesn't seem to appeal to them because they only want to do this one thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. The strain of voice actors who want to do the museum tours. I call them PBS voice actors.  19:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, there's so many of them. I'm a PBS person too, me too.  19:44 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I watch PBS all the time. We adore it. But those that are interested in the intellectual, historical artistic documentaries.  19:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How many documentaries are there? I've done that Google search Also.  19:54 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Very, very few yeah yeah, right, but it also applies to the cartoon and animation voice actors that are out there.  20:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely, absolutely.  20:02 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) This is another one.  20:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, not only how many animation shows are there, then you've got to think about who hires people to do animation shows. Right, that's typically broadcast, right? Broadcast, you know, on the air or streaming.  20:14 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Or streaming or streaming right.  20:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But again, those amount of companies that we'll hire are finite, right? 25,000 networks I think you have to Google me and check me, but I did that research as well 25,000 networks, again, compared to the amount of companies out there who have a product to sell, right. Right 25,000 is nothing. And again, remember, they might already have a voice. They maybe aren't looking for a new voice, and so, when those opportunities come around and evolve, those are the ones you'll audition for, along with all the other people who want to do animation.  20:48 I could do corporate narration that talks about the history of a company. Right, it's similar. It's similar. It may not be exactly the same, but it can feel similar. A lot of corporate documentaries are lovely if they've got good writing, but think of those other markets that are larger and will give you more opportunities.  21:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Yes, I always tell my students that all voice acting is storytelling. All genres of voice acting are storytelling. All stories have a beginning, a middle, an end, an arc and a message, whether it's a cartoon character or it's hours of corporate narration.  21:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, or even an e-learning lesson. Every lesson has an introduction, points to the lesson and a conclusion.  21:37 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) I approach all of my voiceover work and I do a lot of different genres. Like every week I'm doing political explainer, corporate commercial. I'm doing all kinds of genres every week. I approach all of them from a position of play and a position of storytelling. So people are like, oh you know, but the HR stuff is boring and I'm like you know what so is being hungry, so I find the joy in it.  22:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have to find the joy in it, because if you find the joy in it, the people that are listening to you will also be inspired and motivated.  22:07 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Right. So here's something I've learned recently, anne because we're talking about how to motivate our bosses is that I have learned that there are between intrinsic motivators and extrinsic motivators. So you want to find intrinsic and extrinsic motivators to get you to do the things that you need to do to move your voiceover business forward. So, like an extrinsic motivator is, if I do five auditions, I'll give myself a cookie, because you may have trouble being motivated to do auditions, for whatever reason.  22:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I couldn't be giving myself a cookie.  22:36 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Well, no well, you just lost all that, Maybe an article of clothing or a lipstick?  22:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not sure.  22:40 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Fine, that's an and thing or whatever, or it's an action figure or a comic book or whatever. So find, if you need some kind of carrot to be able to motivate yourself to do a task, whatever it is voiceover related, whether it's auditions or invoicing or anything else. And then there's intrinsic motivators. What can you find within yourself to make the task more pleasurable? You know like, for example, I'm going to give you the worst, dumbest example in the world is that there's this Disney short. Remember the Disney shorts when we were growing up.  23:08 Yes, absolutely. So there was one of like the chunky park ranger. He would talk like this no-transcript everywhere.  23:23 And the park ranger's like, oh, bother, I wish I wouldn't have to clean all this up by myself. And then all these bears are just lying around hanging out and he's like, hmm, that gives me an idea. And then he goes hey, everybody, we're going to play a game. And all the bears are like, yeah, let's play a game. And he gives all of them a bag and then like a stick with a little spike on it that you use to clean up. Then he's like all right, here we go. First you pick it up, then you put it in the bag, bump, bump. Then you dance around, then you do this Bump, bump, bump, da-da-da-da-da. And then they saw him in the hammock.  24:04 Just kind of relaxing and they're all like wait a minute and then they threw all the garbage all over the place. But he found not in the right way. He found an intrinsic motivator to make a boring or tedious or frightful task more fun and interesting. So it would get done.  24:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that example. First of all, thank you, Tom, for that. That's going to be some good sound clips here.  24:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) It's in the bag, by the way. Go on Google and just Google. Disney in the bag, and that's the short. It's delightful.  24:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love it. I love it and you know, honestly, the fact is, most people say I don't know the subject, or it could be boring, or HR policies are boring. I mean, in reality, that, to me, is the challenge. So, if you want to have a creative challenge that stimulates, you, take the most boring material and I want you to make it motivating and inspiring for somebody to listen to, right there. That's all I need. That's all I need is the creative challenge of it for me to be excited by it, and when I'm excited by it, I can stand a chance of making you excited by it. Right, or at least I'm passionate about getting my point across and like saying here OSHA regulations dictate that you need to do this to be safe.  25:10 Now that to me. I want to make that very maybe not exciting for the listener, but I want to make sure that they hear me, and so I have to make sure that I am inspiring and motivating in my own way for my audience, and so I have another.  25:25 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) We'll call it a trick, but, like the stereotypical, most boring form of voiceover is guiding employees through their insurance. Right, that's the stereotypically most quote unquote boring, but this is what I do Whenever I'm tasked with that. I've done that for clients over the years. Is, I think, about the single mom with three kids, one of which has special needs? Sure, and that mom is terrified of picking the wrong prescription plan.  25:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely.  25:54 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) So I intrinsically motivate myself by talking just to that single mom, through my subtext and my tone and my cadence and my rhythm. I'm telling that single mom, everything's going to be okay, I'm going to walk you through this.  26:08 - Intro (Announcement) It's a lot easier than you think.  26:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're going to go through this.  26:11 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Together. We're going to get through this and you're going to take care of yourself and take care of your children.  26:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you said that, because I have a lot of pharmaceutical stuff. I read the back of labels and so I'm always imagining I am that patient that I'm frantically looking at the back of the label because I need to know what my dosage is, or obviously I've probably had 10 of the symptoms already and therefore I must take myself to the hospital immediately because I'm experiencing all the symptoms. But I say that sarcastically, but in I say that sarcastically but in reality that is kind of me, I mean, and so I will read that label with that compassion and understanding that people need to hear the important things and that's what makes me excited about what I do. And I love how we've just discussed the motivation for people to because this is hard, right to make it less hard so that you can experience joy in all aspects of this career, in all stages and phases of this career, because it's not going to happen overnight, guys. It just it does not happen 0.00001% of the time. Maybe there's one person who has experienced success, but not overnight. I don't know of anyone in this industry.  27:18 So good discussion, bosses, don't give up. Don't give up. Motivate yourself, stick it out, do the work, understand that it's not easy. And does it get easier? I mean, I know that we discussed this already. Does it get easier? Not really, because I think we always find new challenges, we're always evolving, we're always growing. So keep your eyes on the marketplace, keep your eyes on how you can evolve as a business and, because that is going to help you stay in the market, it's going to help you stay successful once you get there. Good discussion, tom. Thank you so much for that valuable input and that wonderful character that you I don't remember the name of the park ranger.  27:56 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) But you can find it Now.  27:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to find the park ranger name. All right, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network and listen to Tom Dheere like a boss, while he does his character impressions and myself I didn't do any character. Maybe next podcast, tom.  28:15 - Tom Dheere (Co-host) Now. You have to do it next time.  28:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now.  28:24 - Intro (Announcement) I'm going. You have to do it next time. Yeah, now I'm going to have to do it. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission, coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The BOSS Anne Ganguzza sits down with the dynamic Laura Doman, discussing her creative journey from high-tech sales to on-camera/voiceover actor. Her story is a testament to the power of following your passion, no matter your stage of life. The BOSSES explore the evolving landscape of on-camera and voiceover work, highlighting the growing demand for diverse and older talent. They discuss strategies for combating ageism, including the use of humor and embracing one's unique qualities. The BOSSES reflect on the dynamics of working with younger teams and the importance of authenticity in creating memorable roles. The conversation also touches on empowering women in the voiceover industry and how past professional experiences can complement new ventures. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anganguzacom.  00:32 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am very excited to have with me in the studio a special guest on-camera actor, video communications coach, speaker and author, Laura Doman. Laura's voiceover and on-camera credits include commercials and industrials for AAA, home Depot, the United Way, equifax and Bobo's Oat Bars, as well as many more, and lead and supporting roles in films, tv web series and new media. Laura, I am so excited. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today. Oh, thank you, anne. It's such a delight to be here, yay. Well, let's start off for the bosses who are not familiar with you Tell us a little bit about your journey into acting, because I know you've been in acting forever and voiceover and, yeah, how it all started?  01:40 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, I guess I would just say I am in my second childhood andA having the time of my life. I am definitely in that third stage of life, but acting is something I've always loved. I was the little kid putting on plays in the neighborhood all through school. I did the morning announcements in high school.  01:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, of course you did. I can totally hear that yeah.  02:00 - Laura Doman (Co-host) And I had a lot of fun. I even trained other kids how to do it, because the school found it was one way to get the kids to finally quiet down in homeroom and listen. Well, I ended up going into a corporate career, but I ended up in high-tech sales, where my favorite thing was surprise, surprise presentations, being able to go to conferences, be a speaker, anything where I could just do a little razzle-dazzle in front of people. After I did that for a number of years, though, I took a straight turn off to the right and became a stay-at-home mom, something I never envisioned, but that gave me a chance to take a look at what do I really want to do with my life? And once my kids got old enough, I decided hey, you know, we're not getting any younger. When I'm on my deathbed I don't want to have any regrets. And when I was in my corporate job, I would sneak out of some of those sales calls.  02:53 And I did do on-camera commercials. I did some film roles, I did some TV commercials. I did a little bit of everything, and I said you know what? I'm going to dive into it, what the heck? And so I did, and I started first on camera. And just for anybody who's wondering if you're too old to get started, that was, oh, I was in my mid to hear it, but she is. She was in the musical theater and she was begging Mom. I really want to do film and TV and all I could think of, as the responsible parent, was school let's think about this. And I thought, well, she may not get into any agency. Somebody picked her up and then they were looking for older actors, so I dusted off my materials. I did that. I ran into a friend who told me you can get some real voiceover training. I found the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, which is incredible, and then I had both of those going and that's where my acting career just sort of took off.  03:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, so did you find that you were getting on-camera roles first and then voiceover, or were they both kind of coming at the same time?  04:05 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, definitely the on-camera. And I had enough hubris to think well, I had experience, I had training way back when I could just do it and I booked a bunch. All of a sudden I realized I don't know enough and I went back for training and then I started getting a request for voiceover, especially anything with the teleprompter. Now, in my personal opinion, the teleprompter is the love child between on-camera and voiceover.  04:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure is yes, that's a great analogy that is a great analogy.  04:33 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I love it. It is the best of both worlds. First of all, you're on camera, but you don't have to memorize a darn thing. I know.  04:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's such a relief. I mean because when I was in school I was in plays and I just remember, oh God, memorizing those lines was just so. I mean I loved it, but it was so tedious and I'm like teleprompter now. This is pretty cool. I don't have to memorize anymore.  04:56 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Especially the older you get. Yeah, it's hard. Now, one thing I did find by memorizing a lot of lines not so much monologues but big scenes was that the brain cells started waking up, and it's a muscle. The more I did it, the better I got at it. So if you want to stay young, Memorize yes.  05:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I like that you mentioned this, and actually one of the reasons why I really did want to have like a conversation with you today was you talked about you've evolved over the years and your second childhood, and talking about voiceover and on camera. I'd like to talk to you about your thoughts on ageism because, being a woman of a certain age, I have experienced a certain amount of ageism in my careers over the years and I think we should have a discussion. Let's talk about that. How has ageism affected you in the on-camera world and or in voiceover?  05:51 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, it's kind of interesting because we all have a mental age of what we look like and it's usually, in my case, 15, 20 years younger than I really am. But you have to go with how you look. Now, with voice, it's how does your voice print sound Right and you could be many decades younger. But on camera usually you play within about 10 years of your real age. So it could be a bit of a wake-up call first of all, to come to terms with it. Yeah, you could take great care of yourself, but they also cast people a little bit younger. So I have been doing things for AARP and Medicare and retirement communities. Now that I'm getting into that age it's not that unusual. But they never know what they really want. Oftentimes they want people who really look old and in the on-camera world they're not necessarily looking for pretty model types For a long time. They're looking for what they call real people. Yeah, anybody off the street. Thank goodness it turned to that, didn't it.  06:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, would you say like reality TV kind of, at least started the evolution of maybe having real people on television. I mean, even though real TV I mean that could be a whole nother podcast, if it's really real TV but in terms of not everybody on television has to be attractive and young.  07:02 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Oh, yeah, you know what? I noticed this when I compare it before reality TV to now. Back in the late 80s, early 90s, when I was sneaking out doing all this stuff, I was told that I was too get this exotic for the Atlanta market, where I live. I should go to Miami or New York. Why? Because I look Middle Eastern, I look Hispanic, I look New Yorkish and I have dark hair. And whenever they would ask me to play a businesswoman, they just said you're not quite right, I am a businesswoman. Oh, no, no, no, those are pert little cute blondes with little pageboy haircuts. It's completely reversed. The people that they're looking for are of multiple ethnicities, mixed ethnicity, and they don't want model types. And I think reality TV did play a big role because people want to identify and they want real stories.  07:54 So I do believe that's part of it. As far as the ageism is concerned, I definitely was seeing that in the corporate world and my friends who are still in it are having a horrible time, but I haven't found it so much on camera Now. Partly it's because they do need older roles and thank goodness they are finally running some really good juicy ones. You know, I just did a web series where I was playing an evil, murderous stepmother. I love it. Usually I play sweet mothers and grandmas.  08:24 They had a stunt coordinator who was showing me how to slap, punch, hit, take a knife, stab. I normally don't get those kind of roles and they're realizing older people have some interesting things going on. But sometimes they're going to be worried and I had a series on camera a little well, I stick it on YouTube now called Actors Over 50. There are some casting directors wondering can you memorize? Can?  08:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you handle all this.  08:50 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Are you going to be able to physically handle any of the movements we require? Do you have the stamina?  08:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, and those are things that I wouldn't have even thought. I mean, my next question was going to be what strategies do you have for combating ageism? And those thoughts about yeah, can you, do you have the stamina?  09:07 - Laura Doman (Co-host) You know what? You just probably announced who you are and I have found that when you're older, you care a lot less what people think and you can have a lot more fun. Older, you care a lot less what people think and you can have a lot more fun. And I've been using humor and everything so I make light of it so I could be like the snarky grandma I can be the person who has something funny to say. Sometimes, when you have a very young group of people you're working with, you are going to be sidelined because you're not their generation and you're older and you're ignored. But there are many others who want to hear what you have to say and they love it when you say something they didn't expect out of you.  09:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I love that, and so in voiceover, do you have any instances where you might have been looked over because of I don't know your age? Or was it something that wasn't really relevant, because we're behind the mic and we're theoretically not seen?  10:00 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I haven't found that so much, mostly because they're dealing with a voice. I did do a directed session for a group in Milan, italy, and they were looking for a younger voice. This was a few years back and I think they did a double take. When they saw that I'm not in my 20s, they were fine with it Again. They only wanted the finished product. I don't find it so much, except that when I'm dealing with a very young group of people, sometimes they just aren't comfortable with you. They don't know how to relate to you. I try to warm it up by being friendly and professional, but I also realize okay, that's where they are in their lifetimes. They're just not comfortable with people over a certain age. I remind them too much of their mothers, grandmothers that nasty old aunt.  10:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know, I don't have a nasty aunt, but I got it. So then would you say that opportunities for, let's say, bosses just starting out that might be older, like are there ample opportunities both on?  10:55 - Laura Doman (Co-host) camera and inover for their age. Yes, there are tons. Now the one nice thing about let me talk about on camera first, think of it as a bit of a funnel. You got a lot of young people at the top of the funnel. They're teens and they're 20s. But as you work through it, as people get older, a lot of people, especially the women, drop off. A lot of those who start young often will drop off when they have families or when they get to 35, 40. They don't want to be seen on camera or they just find there are fewer roles.  11:24 But for those of us who've started later on and who don't feel like we need to be the lead and we're not going to ever be the ingenue, let's scoop up and take advantage of the vacuum and if we have a unique type and we can bring our real selves which is something you learn and train in voiceover they love it because they're not necessarily casting for a very specific type. Sometimes. They are Most often like with voiceover. They want to know what do you have to bring to the table? We want to see the authentic. You Just like in voiceover, they want to know what do you have to bring to the table. We want to see the authentic.  11:57 You Just like in voiceover, just like you've always told me and countless others, don't worry about what you think they want. Bring yourself, because then they could be delightfully surprised. And there are some really great roles. There are going to be smaller ones. For the most part we are going to be supporting characters, but we can be memorable and you'd be surprised by how many times you can be called back in because of that particular memorable role. So think quality I love it Not necessarily quantity.  12:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, over the years, you've done just a wonderful job of evolving and growing and actually reinventing yourself right, and I think that's definitely a wonderful trait of a boss. So talk about what were some of those challenges, when you were starting to reinvent yourself, that you faced, because it's not easy to do.  12:49 - Laura Doman (Co-host) It's not easy to do, especially if you're older and you're used to being somewhat successful in a previous career. All of a sudden, you're starting at ground zero. That's where you want to adopt a Zen mind, the beginner's mind, because when I was starting out in voiceover, I was already in my late 50s and I looked at people like Ann Ganguza and I went, oh my gosh, how can I possibly compete with Ann? And then I would do the same thing in the on-camera world. I'm way behind. I only have so many years. What do I do? That is where you just clear off all that junk. It's your journey.  13:24 You are a unique person and, yes, it probably will take a long time to build up momentum and when you're older, you can lean into things, though that other people have a hard time doing. Your life experience for one. If you come from another industry, like the corporate world, I can bring the voice of experience and authority and knowledge. You want tech terminology. I'm going to give you tech terminology which other people may not be able to do or be comfortable with, so you just have to be willing to pay your dues.  13:54 Start off, be humble, listen to people that are younger than you that could be your kids and follow your own journey. Personally, I don't want to leave any regrets on the table and I don't know how long my run is, but I am going to make the most of the time I have and I am scooping up and repackaging everything I've ever learned in my life, including that corporate job, and I'm finding it extremely useful. For example, while I do my acting on camera and in voiceover, I am also bringing everything I've learned now as a service coaching, consulting to business people who want to get better on camera themselves, like for videos, zoom presentations, interviews, online appearances. If you're older, you've got that. I'm scooping up my business know-how with the entertainment, giving them the best tips, talking their language and sticking it out there.  14:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful. So how do you juggle it all? Because you're doing voiceover, you're doing on-camera, you're doing coaching. How do you juggle all of these? And I say that as a person who has multiple I call it multiple divisions of my business myself and I know how hard it is to manage VO boss, vo peeps and ganguza coaching and ganguza demo production. So talk to us about how you do the juggling act successfully, because sometimes people can say, oh, you're stretched too thin and you're not going to do anything. Wonderfully well, yeah.  15:19 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I'm told sometimes I'm very busy, but first of all I do stay up late when everything is quiet.  15:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I can get things done. I work seven and a half days a week. Yeah, no.  15:27 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, the other thing is my husband is retired. A lot of women find this he's underfoot, so I have to throw him out of my office more times than I can count. So you got to have a backbone. But mostly it's a matter of prioritization what's most important, what are those top things you have to do? And when you're juggling things, I look to see how they are integrated and support one another. When I go after opportunities, my favorites are the ones that require both on-camera experience and voiceover, and occasionally I found one that includes all three, because there's a teleprompter thrown in and sometimes they're looking for somebody who could do it all. So I try to find those opportunities. Sometimes it's voiceover for film or TV. I was just at Tyler Perry Studios. Talk about cool For voiceover.  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I saw that. I saw your post on Facebook. Very cool, very cool.  16:19 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, incredible guy to work for, I mean, an amazing studio. There have been e-learning where they also want to make it into a virtual reality and their employees are supposed to learn about DEI but they don't want to preach. So I did a job a few years ago which was on camera, voiceover, teleprompter and print and they wanted to take it into the future, into a fantasy world where genetic splicing was a thing and the kids were all into it and I'm the mother of a high school senior looking at colleges going, huh, these kids are putting animal DNA. There's a cat boy and a girl dog. You're not bringing one of those home. I don't think you should be with those people. They're not really people and the whole training was to see what's the right course and either you answered correctly and the mother was open-minded or, boom, you go back and try again.  17:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. Well, let's talk about how you market yourself for all of these things, because you're like you're finding these opportunities, but how are you finding them and how are you marketing yourself? Because I've seen now you're doing a lot of video online, which is great, and it's not about hire me, hire me. It's basically just showing a really cool aspect of your personality. So talk a little bit about your marketing strategies.  17:35 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I try to share, teach and also entertain, and by doing so I can highlight everything that I'm doing. I'll start off with the entertainment. You know those little sayings you see on cocktail napkins and towels when you go into a gift shop. I started writing all those down a few years ago and I call them my mom-isms and I go in and I act them out Five to ten second videos that are cute, funny, boom, and they're very popular on LinkedIn.  18:01 It shows what I could do on camera. It shows what I could do with voiceover, sure, and it shows a sense of humor. I also share my tips on on-camera confidence and I make everything now in short video form under 60 seconds, and again, I try to pack a lot of value into it so people will watch it from start to finish, and I share that widely. I've done the same thing for older actors, to show people, not just older actors as a service, but for anybody else who'd be looking. And then I've got a few other series in mind. But it's a matter of sharing what you know. Don't be afraid of that and let them entertain themselves while they're watching it, and that way you're memorable.  18:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you know what I love. You know what I love. I love that you said LinkedIn, and I caught you on that because I like how you're directing those videos on a platform towards the audience that you are selling to. And LinkedIn, yeah, absolutely, because I was going to say what about TikTok? Well, tiktok is another story these days, but what about Instagram? What about videos on Facebook? So are you choosing platforms based upon where you feel that your market is strategically?  19:08 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, right, now I'm putting them out just about everywhere because I can. The biggest focus is on LinkedIn where ironically, my momisms are the most popular. I get the most response from that. Instagram is great for on-camera work and I have been advised to divide it into two channels One which is just showing me as funny, humorous the actor part of my life, and then another one which is showing the on-camera confidence and that's going to be all the professional content. I am heavily into YouTube.  19:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was going to say I didn't want to neglect the YouTube platform, because I also do a lot of shorts on YouTube and Instagram as well, and LinkedIn as well.  19:46 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, I mean, I have a YouTube channel for me and one separate for momisms for the humorous. I also put them on. I have a Facebook, which is more personal, but I've started a Facebook page Because you never know where you're going to find people. I've been throwing my momisms on TikTok to see if there's an audience for that.  20:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I'm everywhere and I keep a strong calendar to keep track of everything. Sure, I was going to say, like, do you have specific days where you're recording these things and let's talk about, like, your posting strategy? Is it every day, is it once a week, and how are you tracking your progress on different channels?  20:20 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I should have brought it down because I could show you a book. It's actually one of those little free realtor books you get when somebody's trying to market their service. Yeah, and it's a big calendar because I like to be able to see at a glance how much I am doing on any particular channel. I will be putting the name in little notes here with the color of that particular social media. Blue is LinkedIn. This does not surprise me.  20:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Just knowing you, Laura.  20:46 - Laura Doman (Co-host) No no.  20:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Laura, it's probably beautiful and I would love to see that someday You're going to have to send us a photo and I'll put it on the show notes for people, because I'm sure it's wonderful, because I'm like, oh gosh, I mean I wish I could be color coordinated, or I mean I'm as organized as I can be, but I'm not quite color coordinated, organized, but yeah, You'll also see things that are crossed out because, oh my goodness, I just got so busy I didn't get to it.  21:12 - Laura Doman (Co-host) But I try to lay it out. So when I'm creating my videos, I will go ahead and schedule it that way. Anything that I could load ahead of time natively on a social media platform, I will. I do not use a scheduler.  21:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you because Facebook has changed the rules just FYI and Instagram now, because I think they're trying to. If you're verified and you pay the subscription price, you're not getting the traction that you were before, and that is one of those things that everybody's freaking out about.  21:40 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Yeah, and one advantage of doing it on your own and I got this from Hunter Peterson and I'm happy to put a plug in for him because he helped me with the YouTube strategy is that you want to use your mobile phone to be able to put your videos natively, because if you just do it on your desktop or other, you don't have any control over the thumbnail, and that thumbnail is so important, whatever it is. So I do it on my own natively and I just schedule them out. I try to batch the videos I'm creating. I might do four or five momisms at a time, three on camera confidence.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yeah, because you have to prepare. I mean, I know, for me I have video day, which is typically Thursdays and Saturdays. I've got to be camera ready and that doesn't always happen on a day-to-day basis. And that takes part of my day too. I'm like this takes a long time. The hair Well, that's a whole other conversation.  22:35 - Laura Doman (Co-host) No, it's a good conversation.  22:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, it's definitely something that we need to talk about.  22:39 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, I'll tell you that there are oftentimes I have to just throw the whole calendar out the window because in the on-camera world, when something comes calling that has to take priority Very short turnarounds because you got to memorize and you got to get the hair all done up?  22:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I love this conversation about being camera ready and voiceover ready, and scheduling has always been one of those things. It's incredibly important. I live by my calendar, so you have the posting calendar, but I live by my Google calendar, so is yours just? Is it straight up on a physical calendar or oh no, no, no, you do digital as well.  23:15 - Laura Doman (Co-host) We can learn from our children. My daughter is so proud of me because I always did something on a little pocket calendar. Remember those Hallmark calendars?  23:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I do. I used to write in them myself, yep.  23:27 - Laura Doman (Co-host) I used those ever since my grandmother bought them for me when I was little. Yes, well, my daughter just said Mom, google Calendar, you can color code it. Oh, yes, so that's what I do and I love that. But when it comes to scheduling, my Realtors calendar gets a lot of use and I could put everything there because I'm still very visual and it was very helpful because I was gone for, let's say, a month traveling and I was trying to plan everything out and I even brought that thing with me so that when I had something specific to add in, I had a lot of flexibility. Like, I'm very big into in-person networking and when I am there and I have photos, I want to be able to put them in. And I relate it to business? Sure, absolutely.  24:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, oh man. I'll tell you, laura, what advice would you give for bosses maybe starting out a little bit later in their careers and wanting to do on camera or voiceover what's your best tips and advice for them?  24:25 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Have fun, the only reason you should be doing something really, especially later in life. We all have freedom. Many of us might have the financial freedom from having bankrolled from previous careers or there is somebody else in the family who is still working or you've got a retirement. Do it because you love it, because that joy, that sincerity, that authenticity is going to come through.  24:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that and you know, that's just something that I didn't even think about, because when you don't have the stress or the worry of like that financial burden, where you're like I've got to feed the six kids and pay the mortgage and yeah, that really brings a lot to your plate and is, I would say, a huge advantage for those later on in life.  25:09 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Absolutely yeah that and the fact that you might as well do something you've always wanted, and you would just be very surprised by how many people don't know things. For example, when I was in the corporate world, people were amazed by anybody who shows any level of creativity. When I was working on the flip side and I was helping to organize meals for monologues, they were amazed my God, you're an actor and you're so organized.  25:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you're an actor who has a head for business, which is another thing that I love about you, laura, is that really? I think that it's something that, as creatives and bosses, I think it's one of the hardest things for some people to grasp hold of is that this is your business and there's a lot of business things you need to do in order to be successful, and you've proven it as you've evolved so successfully over the years.  25:59 - Laura Doman (Co-host) And you also have to be able to change with the times. When I started my corporate world back in the early 80s because I'm that old I was dial in for dollars. Now everything is done with social media and social marketing or emailing, and so you have to be willing to learn. Like I'm part of Mark Scott's Veopreneur community, I did the mastermind. I think what Paul Schmidt is doing is incredible. There's so many others. You have to be willing to be open-minded and it's one thing to be older and experienced and know something about this, but you have to be aware that you don't know a lot about that and there's still a lot to learn from younger people.  26:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think we just have to be lifelong learners. That's it. I mean, that's the educator part in me, and I love to learn. I think we should always be learning and, laura, we've definitely learned so much from this discussion today. Thank you so much. You've just shared a lot of wisdom that even I like kind of go through it myself as a woman of a certain age, but I'll tell you what you really brought it to light. And thank you so much for spending time with us today.  26:58 - Laura Doman (Co-host) Well, thank you. My pleasure and I'm delighted to be here Awesome.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network like bosses like myself and Laura. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  27:20 - Intro (Announcement) Bye, bye-bye with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Learn how to transform money aspirations into concrete financial plans in our next episode of the Boss Money Talks series with Danielle Famble. The BOSSES guide you through setting precise financial goals, breaking down larger targets into manageable segments, and preparing for the variable and unpredictable income streams that are so common in the voiceover industry. The BOSSES dive deep into strategies for creating financial freedom through strategic growth. They discuss the powerful impact of investing in yourself and your business, whether that means hiring help, taking breaks for self-care, or seeking out coaching and training. Tune in to discover how financial stability can lead to better business decisions, higher quality work, and long-term success in the competitive world of voiceover. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, amazing voiceover talents. Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VO Boss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the VO Boss Blast. Find out more at voboss.com.  00:28 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO Boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza.  00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talks series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I'm here again with the lovely Danielle Famble to talk money today. Hey Danielle, hey Anne, it's good to be back with you. Yes, I love talking money, me too.  01:05 Money money, money. So, speaking of money, we were just having a conversation where we love to. Well, I love to shop online. I will readily admit that, and I think it's important that we think about do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business? Do I have the money to spend on this? Do I have financial goals for my business?  01:24 Because another thing that I will also do with my students is when they first start working with me, they have to fill out a goal sheet, and I think that a lot of times, we know what performance goals I want to get work. I want to work in this genre, I want to get an agent. We have all the performance goals and, oh, I want to have a business, or I want to have a thriving business, but I don't think many of us get very specific about financial goals. Again, it's one of those things where I think people think if they don't look at it it's kind of like don't look at my credit card statements that maybe they'll go away. But no, we've got to really keep our eyes open and look to the future, and I think it's a good time to talk about how to set financial goals for your business.  02:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, no. That's really important because for me in the past I've always just said with a financial goal, I just want more. I want to make more money, I want to have more, and it's not specific at all, it's just more or mentality. What you're lacking in that specificity tells you what is enough and how you know when you've reached your goal, so that you can either make more goals or become more targeted on that goal. So more usually was my goal and I never felt like I hit it.  02:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or for me it would be like oh well, I want to make a six-figure income, and so I don't think that's specific enough. Right, right, like how do I get to that six-figure income from day one right and day 30 and day 60, like on a monthly basis or on a weekly basis? How am I achieving those goals?  02:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, and I think what you could do then is say, okay, if you want to make a six-figure income, okay, what is six figures? Is it specifically $100,000? Is it $ Five hundred thousand? Five hundred thousand dollars? All of these things are absolutely possible, but what is the specific six figure For me? If I were saying you know I want a six figure income, I would want to say, all right, is it one hundred thousand dollars? If it's one hundred thousand dollars, then you can divide that by 12. Yeah, just round numbers and then figure out that you need to make that number per month and you'll know monthly if you're on target to hit that amount or not, also considering things like expenses and taxes and things like that. So it's a question of are you wanting to just bring in that amount of money? Are you trying to bring in that amount of money after expenses? Like, getting specific about these financial goals really helps. You know when you've hit your target or not.  03:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, right. And the more specific I think you can get, I think, the more achievable it may seem to you. Because it's all well and good to say I want to make I don't know. $8,000 a month, right? So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right. So $8,000 a month times 12, right, that doesn't quite get you to 100, right? Or $12,000 a month will get you $120. I'm pulling out my calculator because now that we started.  04:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) As much as I love talking about money, math is not my.  04:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, we need calculators.  04:19 - Danielle Famble (Host) Math is not my ministry, so sometimes I have to just pull out a calculator.  04:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I got it, I got you. But let's just say I have that money goal on a monthly basis, right? What is it going to take for me to achieve that? And that is especially difficult, and I think this is why most voice actors it's so hard for them to set these financial goals, because our industry I mean we are entrepreneurs, I mean we have highs, we have lows.  04:45 There's no expected income coming in, which makes this so much different than my corporate job where I made a salary per year and you divide that by the amount of times I get paid, I know exactly what I'm going to get on my paycheck, right? And that takes away that uncertainty, all that risk, right? Because it's a stable kind of an income that's coming in every month and so we could count on that if we're working a job and working in corporate. But now, all of a a sudden, we're entrepreneurs and so that monthly achievable goal, or weekly or whatever you want to set it to, becomes like what I mean there's no guarantee. So what do we do? What do we do? We have that goal, how do we get there? There's the question of the day.  05:30 - Danielle Famble (Host) So you can take a look at what you're currently doing now. I think looking at where you are and then making your goal achievable within where you're currently at will help you, hopefully, get closer to that goal than if you are at making $1,000 a month and you're saying I want to make $10,000 a month next month or next year. There are things that you're going to need to do. So if you can look at where you are now and see where you are in relationship to that goal, that will help you understand the time frame that it will take, how long it will take you to hit that goal.  06:03 What else do you need to do? Do you need to study more? Do you need to have different kinds of demos? Do you need to take a look at what genres are you auditioning for? Maybe you're not going to make that kind of money doing a certain kind of genre. Maybe that money comes from a different genre that maybe you don't work in as much. So do you have the demos and the training that you need to make that amount of money? Once you start getting specific, it actually starts to add more questions so that you can figure out how to get to that financial goal that you have.  06:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I like that because it really brings in all the other elements into play. Right, because, all right, in order for me to make and I'm just giving it a number, in order for me to make $10,000 a month, right, that's four weeks, right? So how many auditions do I need to do? Right? How many times do I need to book? And you're right, absolutely Like, what kind of genres I mean, what kind of money are you making? Especially because we never know, like necessarily from job to job, what that money is. We can have a baseline, right, and we can say, well, I'd like to charge this for the job. It may make us rethink what we're charging people right?  07:14 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely. That's a huge part of it too are your rates. If your rates are completely out of alignment with what your goal is, then that tells you. Maybe you need to take a look at your rates. Maybe you need to take a look at the types of jobs that you are auditioning for what you are saying yes to, because when you say yes to something, that inherently means you're saying no to something else, because you only have a certain amount of time to do what needs to get done.  07:38 That's actually something that I've had to take a look at in my own business is, if I say yes to certain things, is that actually getting me closer to my goal, or is it getting me closer to more, and more is not specific. So sometimes you're going to need to say no so that you are available for the jobs that will get you closer to your financial goals your financial income goals, if that's what your financial goals are.  08:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, the power of no, it is a thing, it is an absolute, tangible thing, the power of no.  08:09 And I think also you've got to be aware of the market, right, it's all well and good to say I want to make six figures, you know, and I'm going to charge this amount, so there's also the other side of the coin, where you're going to be, let's say, maybe pricing yourself out of the market. And so education I feel like this whole series, like we need to start off by saying educate, educate, educate, educate. It's so important because now, all of a sudden, there's market price, right, we're dealing with the dark side of synthetic voices coming on the horizon. And so what are consumers willing to pay? Right, and you know you do have to take that into account, right, and so sometimes you can be price undercut by another talent or somebody else on a roster who will do it cheaper, and it's unfortunate, but I mean that's the way the cookie crumbles, or there's got to be some sort of money analogy for that, danielle, that you might know, that's the way the dollar gets spent.  09:02 There you go, yeah, I mean, there's all these variables, danielle, and it's so intimidating, which is why I think most people don't really set those financial goals.  09:11 - Danielle Famble (Host) And also adding in negotiation. Being comfortable negotiating your rates and negotiating what a company or client is willing to pay is really important as well, and getting comfortable and competent in how to negotiate is actually a lever that you can pull as well. There are so many things that are in your control when it comes to bringing in the income for your business that just saying okay, I want to make six figures, that's all well and good. Now what can I do? What's in my control? What are the levers that I can pull? Maybe it's negotiating. Maybe it's making sure that I'm quoting industry standard rates, educating myself on what industry standard rates are, maybe going to a GVAA rate guide or looking at what is the industry charging.  09:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Marketing more yeah.  09:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) You can also say no and say hey, listen, this is below what I'm willing to accept for my time, because this is not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do not going to get me closer to my goal. There's so many things that you can do. Just saying this is the goal and I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing really takes away the agency that you have in getting to this goal.  10:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, one thing that I will say that allows me to be bolder in moving forward in my business is having and I've said this in numerous other podcasts, but I think it bears repeating is having that financial cushion. That means having money in the bank that allows me to be bold with my saying no if I need to right, maybe delving out into a different genre or getting more coaching or whatever it is, making another investment in my business so that I can move forward Again. I wish it was all like oh, this is the absolute path I must go in order to achieve this. But there's so many variables that you say and I love it because it's so positive that we have in our control to do it, and I like to really think about it like a challenge. I mean, I'm a girl who loves a challenge, right, I mean so for me. I've always said that I love voice acting and I love coaching, but I love the business I love the business of making money right.  11:13 I love trying to figure out how can I make more money and if I treat it as a challenge and I treat it like a game right, as long as I have that financial cushion right in the bank, I have some leeway. I have a little bit of play where I can actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, actually go out on a limb and take a chance and take a risk, and if that pays off for me, yes then that can be something that catapults me into the next tax bracket.  11:39 - Danielle Famble (Host) Absolutely, it's so empowering to be able to walk away and say no or to go for a different genre or whatever your goal is or your challenge, as you're saying, would be. It's so empowering to be able to back that up in your mind of saying, if this doesn't work out, I'm still okay. For me, that goes for financial savings goals. So I want to make sure that I have a certain amount of money in the bank, in savings, so that I'm not destitute. Yep, you can pay the bills.  12:05 Desperation is palpable and if you are operating from a place of, this has to work or else it may not work out as well for you. But the confidence in the back of your mind of saying, if not me, that's totally fine, I'm still okay, that's you taking the power and the agency of your future, of your financial future, your business's future. So, going from I need to make a certain amount of money to I need to have a certain amount of money so that I can feel safe and confident in being able to say no. Is it really important financial goal? That has taken me a long time to understand that it's as important, if not more important than just revenue goals.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, your strategy to get there doesn't have to always revolve around jobs that you do. It can revolve around, like for me everybody knows I've been on a health journey, right, I worked myself to the bone, to the point where I was unhealthy, right, and then that was also taking away from my product. Actually, do you know what I mean? I wasn't at my 100% best, and so for me I was like I can't stop, I can't stop, I can't stop, I want to continue. Like I had a nice financial cushion but the workaholic in me said, well, let's just keep putting money in there. But at one point it became a little bit detrimental to me, right, because it affected my health. And now I'm okay with saying you know what, I can take that hour, that maybe hour and a half, to do some self-care, because if I am healthier, I'm going to have a better product and I'm going to be able to serve my clients better, I'm going to run my business better. And so the goal goals there, you know, in strategizing are not just like okay, this is what I want to make and these are how many auditions I'm going to have to do to get there, or this is how much marketing I'm going to have to do. It also can encompass whatever it is that affects your product right, to make your product better.  13:56 I think that's an avenue we need to look at, including coaching right, including new demos, which is why I feel that that part of the strategy in your financial goals. They're hand in hand Because it's all about the product really, right. I mean, we are a company. I always tell people like, especially when I'm teaching corporate narration, I'm like look, you can't just be an information deliverer when you talk about corporate narration, because the word corporate in and of itself says we need to sell something, right? There's no other reason why companies are formed. Can you think of any reason?  14:28 that companies are formed outside of to make a profit and they have a product and a service to sell. There's no other reason. So that means that you exist to make a profit, right.  14:39 - Intro (Announcement) You exist to make a profit.  14:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your product needs to make a profit. And if your product is not making a profit, then you need to look at improving that product. And how are you going to do that? Or how are you going to make sure that you have a good product and that you're maintaining it, but not just maintaining it, but evolving it and growing it and making it better so that it's competitive?  14:59 - Danielle Famble (Host) I appreciate you saying that, because where you were when you realized that it was time to make a change is quite literally where I am right now.  15:08 I've said to myself recently I would love to be that person who goes to the gym at four o'clock in the afternoon. Well, normally I'd be doing auditions or trying to make sure I have a session at that time, or it's during the day. I need to be in this booth making money. I must be here, because if I'm not here working towards these financial goals, then what am I doing? But I need to pour into the instrument that is, the product, and to be able to do that I need money. So I need to be able to strategize that I'm making money enough to be able to take that four o'clock hour or whatever hour and go and take a workout class or go to the gym or just go outside and get some vitamin D, because sometimes I don't do that. So that's where you can take your financial goals and make them applicable to your daily life, not just as the person that you are, but the product of your business, which is how your business makes money. It's cyclical.  16:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean, if we had a physical product, it would be a different story. You know what I mean, like if I was like I'm selling pens, oh, I'm selling my Nganguza pens, right? So that's a different thing. I mean, you've got physical inventory here. Here we're talking about your voice, right, and so it encompasses that's what makes it so unique.  16:25 It encompasses so many different things in order to put out a great product and those goals whether you think so or not, I mean those goals that you set, financial goals. There's so many ways to get there that don't include just how much money do I invest? It can be how much do I invest in my product to make it better so that I can ultimately charge more or ultimately get more income coming in? So I didn't want to miss out on saying how important that was in terms of strategizing and goal setting, because I didn't realize it. Do you know what I mean? I just kept thinking, oh my God, I just have to work, I have to be at the desk, I have to work, I have to work, and then I realized that ultimately, my product was suffering, and so you don't want that to happen.  17:09 So, always being on the lookout of how can I be better? How can I and for me it's always been like the challenge and how can I grow? And growing takes. Growing is scary. You know what I mean. Oh yeah, growing your business is scary. I mean, okay, all of a sudden, now I might need an assistant. Oh, that means I've got to put more money out. That's scary when I don't feel like I have control over that. Income is not steady anymore. So all of a sudden it's like well, I don't know if I can afford right, which is what a lot of students can't afford. There's only so much they've allowed in order to develop their product. But in reality, taking it all in and understanding what's involved in putting out a great product, I mean, at least you don't have a storefront, that you're leasing a building.  17:55 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah. And the question that you can ask yourself, instead of saying I can't afford, is how can I afford?  18:01 - Intro (Announcement) to have an assistant, because then that starts to open up a lot more questions.  18:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) How much does an assistant cost? How much time commitment would I need for this assistant? Maybe it's a part-time assistant, a certain number of hours a week, Okay. So it's going to be 20 hours a week at, let's say, $15 an hour, Okay. So now that I know it's this amount of money, how can I afford this additional amount of money? And then you reverse engineer the problem.  18:31 Yeah, I love that so if it's, how can I take off at 4 o'clock in the afternoon to go to the gym? All right, that means that I need to make sure that I'm making a certain amount of money per week or per month, however I want to view it. Per week or per month, however I want to view it, and I'll know if I'm maybe negotiating a certain rate and I hit that target. Anything else for the week is gravy, because I know that I've made my target amount of money, I've hit my goal, I know the enough number and anything else on top of that to me is pure profit, which I love profit.  19:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We love profit.  19:04 - Danielle Famble (Host) I love profit, and so I think that's really how you can look at it. Instead of saying what you cannot do, ask yourself the creative in you how can you do it?  19:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was absolutely just going to say you know what I love about you, danielle, because you're always about what you can do right Versus I can't afford, I can't do this to grow. You're always like you're reversing it, like literally everything that we've talked about in this series is you with the positive manifestation right of how you can. Let's reverse, engineer, let's see what we, what here are our goals, here's what we can do to get there. And I absolutely love that about you and I believe that it's instrumental in your success. I think it can be instrumental in every boss's success that instead of what you can't do, what can you do and just manifest from abundance that whole mentality.  19:53 - Danielle Famble (Host) Thank you. I believe in that. We are creatives. That's what we are doing. We are actors. We are creating worlds and stories out of someone else's words, sometimes our own and we're creating something that didn't really exist before we breathe the life, the voice into it. That's what we do.  20:13 So if that is what we do in our business, how can that be that we don't do it in creating the abundance in our business? It's really important to me. When I get negative and I do often when I do get negative I want to try to get out of that by flipping to where is my power, what can I do about it? And if I need help, then that means that I need to figure out the resource to help me. If I don't know, then I need to get a coach or get someone else's perspective. But there's something that you can do, and it's probably in business. It's going to cost you some money, which is why talking about money and finances is so important, because it is the vehicle for how we get what we want in life and in business.  20:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, it is so true, and I think there's a lot of creators that may not want to believe that, like, I'm going to do it for the love of it and that's okay. I mean, I think every day, we should be doing something we love if we absolutely can, and if it can help us pay the bills, I mean, my gosh, how fortunate and how wonderful is that. And I always say how lucky am I? Am I lucky? I manifested it. Just saying, I mean, I manifested something that I love, right, and turned it into something that I can make a profit with.  21:21 And so how much luck was involved in that? Well, maybe a little bit, but there was an awful lot of hard work and there was awful lot of manifestation and saying what can I do? Right? And I believe, bosses out there, that you need to again educate yourself. Right, take that real world, look at your finances, set some goals that are realistic goals and do it working backwards, right, because it's not enough to just say I want to make a six-figure income, right. Well, okay, give me a number and then work backwards from that, right. And what are you going to have to do to get to that number? And maybe, guys, maybe it's not about how many auditions you do. Maybe you need to go outside. I mean, I hate to say that, but I don't hate to say that there's nothing wrong with going outside and getting a supplemental income while you're building your business Absolutely nothing.  22:08 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh, for sure it can be actually one of the best things that you do for your business, because it's less work that you'll have to do in bringing in income in your business, because you've already got additional income kind of helping you out and that keeps you afloat and that buoys you.  22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's your cushion, that's your cushion, that's your cushion so that it makes you confident to move forward. So go deliver Instacart. I mean. I mean, why not? I mean I've thought of all these other things that I would love to do. I mean there's all these things that I find joy in that I'm like you know what, if I ever had to change my career, I could do that. I'm always thinking. I'm always thinking, and I'm not saying I'm getting out of voice, acting at all or what I'm doing, but I'm always evolving and always thinking about what is it that's going to help me to be joyful and bring money in. It's like joy and money, and I'm not afraid or ashamed to say joy and money in the same sentence.  23:03 - Danielle Famble (Host) Oh no, making money can be quite joyful. I've also made money in a way that has not been completely joyful to me, but spending that money was a little bit more joyful. And that's how I got my joy Spending money is joyful to me.  23:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and making it, of course, because you got to have it to spend it Absolutely. Oh man, what a great conversation. So I believe financial goals take it work backwards right. Figure out what your goal is, what you need to do to get there, and always as Danielle has so eloquently and wonderfully demonstrated in all of these podcast series episodes that we've talked about is be positive. What can you do right and not that you can't do it because of right, no excuses, what you can do and bosses. There's no shame in strategizing and coming up with ideas outside of the box to get there and give yourself that financial cushion to push even further to those financial goals. So I love talking to you, danielle. I love it. Thank you, anne.  23:58 - Danielle Famble (Host) This is fun, you get me all charged up.  24:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Not charged up. I might go charge something now. Oh, I'm going to go manifest my next level.  24:07 - Danielle Famble (Host) Yeah, I'm going to go set some more goals, some financial goals.  24:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Manifest the next level of bossness setting some financial goals. All right, guys. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and manifest those awesome financial goals. You guys can do it. We believe in you. All right, have a good one. Bye, guys, thanks everybody, bye.  24:33 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO boss with your host and gang Guza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VO bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we navigate the captivating world of character creation in voice acting with MCVO Agent Lau Lapides. The BOSSES unpack the essence of building characters across various domains—whether it's animation, commercial, corporate, or e-learning—emphasizing the crucial role of authenticity and depth. Discover how understanding a character's choices, morality, and actions can elevate your performance from mere impersonation to truly embodying the character. By thoughtfully considering the script's intent and adding your unique touch, the BOSSES aim to help you craft characters that deeply resonate with your audience. Tune in and embrace the complexities and creative challenges of character development with us, ensuring your performances are both genuine and relatable. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Do you ever wish boss marketing was as fun as it was being behind the mic? Well, check out my VioBoss Blast. It's designed to automate and make your marketing simpler. You'll benefit from your very own target marketed list, tailored to meet your goals and your brand the ViBoss Blast. Find out more at VioBosscom.  00:24 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here for the Boss Superpower Series with my lovely guest co-host, Lala Pides.  00:55 - Lau Lapides (Host) Hey Anne, so happy to be back, as always.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah Lal, I love you. You're such a character.  01:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I love you right back, super lady.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, speaking of characters, I have a lot of friends who do character acting a lot of really wonderful friends and they absolutely love it, they're very passionate about it. As a matter of fact, a lot of students that I talk to that want to get into voiceover. They want to be a character, they want to be in animation and I thought it's appropriate because we're characters, no matter what we do in voice acting today, and not everybody thinks of it in those terms. So I thought maybe we could concentrate on what characters we are today.  01:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's an interesting topic because I think that a lot of creatives think of character in a very artificial kind of sense, as almost a caricature a caricature instead of a character, a well-drawn character with depth, and dimension. So like, yeah, what is that character? How do we define that character? It's a great question.  01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a good question. So, Lo, how do you define character and how you need to be a character? Or do you need to be a character, or do you need to be a character in voice acting?  02:07 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think the first thing I think about is from that morality standpoint of thinking about character. When we say, oh, that person has a lot of character, they build their character, they have a very strong character, they have a moral character. I always think of it as someone who is strong, someone who has a backbone, who has courage, and someone who is well-drawn, well-built, someone who has those three dimensions, who has depth, who's interesting, who has integrity. I mean thinking about all the layers that go into what character actually is. I don't necessarily think of like cartoon or animation or something that's unreal. I think of something that is actually real and dimensional. And then I go from there, I start to dive in and say, ooh, what does this building of this character from an actor's standpoint? What does that mean? How do we build a character from the ground up, taking our breakdown, taking our description and really detailing it, really adding our own unique dimension to that that becomes our character?  03:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And is it necessary that you are a character in voice, acting for every script? Are you a character?  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, I think that only is about how you define character. If I define character as every single solitary role that I could possibly play is a character, possesses character and has character elements to it, then I would imagine yes, you're a character, whether you are a narrator an audiobook reader or whether you're a medical tech person, you're a character.  03:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that in order to really resonate, I think, with the script and resonate with the listener, you need to truly embody that character, and I think it's important that we're not trying to necessarily impersonate a character, right, it's more or less being that character in the moment, right, and I know that a lot of times when you are speaking in the moment, all the things that used to matter to you like oh, how do I sound right? Kind of flies out the window. And that's why I think it's important that we actually get ourselves in the moment, in the character, because we don't necessarily need to consider what we sound like. We need to consider who we are and what we're reacting to, what scene we're in and how we're talking to our listener.  04:34 - Lau Lapides (Host) And who we are. From an actor standpoint, whatever kind of character you're creating is determined not only by the writer's point of view, but also by the moment-to-moment experience, directorially, from your perspective, your point of view, what's your POV? So, therefore, we need to be fully present, fully engaged in the moment, to really figure out the character, build the character from the ground up and really start to ask questions about what is your character, who are they, what would they do, what would their decisions and actions be? And I like to even go and say are they like me, or is this within me to do, or do I have to create this as part of my character? I don't want to mimic, as you said, I don't want to impersonate, I don't want to be a parrot in that way, but what do I need to do to get the qualities of that character and then put it in so I can organically bring that out as part of me?  05:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) and who I am. I like how you actually brought in the fold that there's a point of view from the script writer, right, let's say, if we are voicing a commercial or, in my case, like corporate or e-learning right. In my case, like corporate or e-learning right, there's a point of view that you need to consider from the copywriter or whoever it is that is providing you with the work right, because they want you to consider their viewpoint. But then you also have to bring in your own point of view, and I think that sometimes people get confused as to the point of view. Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view? Is there just one or is there one that you're melding in with your own point of view in order to make your take on that a unique take that will engage the listener?  06:13 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, you know, it's interesting, A lot of VOs who also do on-camera work hear the language of the technical crew talking about POVs when it comes to the camera shot. So I like to think of it in those terms that you know, if you're shooting one scene, it could take four hours, eight hours, 12 hours to shoot that one scene, because the crew is concerned about what are all the POVs in the shot list that we need to get. So when we think about voiceover and we think about, well, we're not on camera, but what are we doing with our voice? What are all the points of view that our voice can stylistically shift to, whether it's written in the script or not, really could take time to develop that.  06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know. I love that. You said that because I think you're right and it's funny, because I'll talk to my students and I'll say it's a point of view that evolves, because if you have the same point of view throughout an entire script, it becomes almost like white noise and it becomes very predictable and consistent and it doesn't necessarily tell the story, because I'm constantly in this particular point of view and I'm going to talk to you like this for the next minute or two minutes or maybe even ten minutes, and I'm going to continue with this particular point of view and it starts to become really repetitive and it starts to become where repetitive and it starts to become where whew, that's exhausting to listen to, right? So I think a point of view is constantly evolving and changing along with the storyline and that's something that the actor makes, those choices right, those choices on how to evolve in a unique way that takes the listener on a journey.  07:43 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yes, and it is the very thing that you and I, as coaches, are always pushing home. Pushing home. It is precise, it is detailed, it is specific. We should never be making choices that are like whitewashed, or universal, or generic, or not making choices at all, which is what?  08:01 a lot of talent do because they want to just let happen what happens? Sure, but the truth is we're on a mission for choice making and we know we're going to attain the objective if we make the choice to go get that. If we don't make any choice, chances are we're not going to achieve that objective.  08:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, then it just becomes like a neutral, flat, kind of like where is that point of view and what makes that different than somebody reading words to me really?  08:26 - Lau Lapides (Host) So therefore we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, and characteristics, how about characteristics? So therefore, we lack character? Yeah, we lack character and characterization, right right, and characteristics, sure, how about characteristics? I like that.  08:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And moment to moment I love the moment to moment in between the periods throughout the scene Like the scene can evolve, and I think what's so cool about that is that it offers the actor such an amazing spectrum of creativity to just draw upon in order to make that read come to life.  08:53 And it's different for all of us. I think there's, I think, the point of view, that's the intention of the script, that makes sense for the words that are on the page, and then there's what you bring to it moment to moment. It evolves over time, it may change and shift and you may not know what those scenes are specifically Like. We don't always get the storyboard, we don't get the video, we don't know what the music or any of those things are going to be, but we have our own creativity, we have our own imagination, we have an understanding of who we're voicing this for and the context of the words that are on the page, and then it's up to us to interpret them in a logical way that would make sense to accomplish what the client wants from us.  09:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Exactly, that's exactly it.  09:37 And I think that if you don't do that work, if you don't do the homework or the pre-work, as we call it, the pre-work if you don't do that prep, pre-work, you're really messing out a lot, because you want to be free, that when you're doing the gig whatever that gig is you want to be free to really play and enjoy the character and say, okay, I've created a framework, I have a little blueprint for myself, I can see the visual in my head, I have a sense of where they're going and make some decisions, so that when I veer off and I go outside of the box, I know that I'm breaking my own rules, which is what I want to be doing as a creative.  10:13 I want to set my rules, I want to see if that works, and then I want to break the rules and that might work even better. And so those characters are like, no matter how rule-oriented they are, they're always breaking rules in certain ways as well. And really finding out like, where's the rebel in the character? Maybe she's been saying lines just like this, she's been delivering just like this, and then maybe on this one she changes it. She changes it for a reason to show that she is awake and aware of what the problem is in the community, right. So I'm really developing a character and characterizations that then become relatable and about empathy, that an audience can listen to and go ooh, I do that. Ooh, that's just like me.  10:58 Wow, and all of a sudden they're not thinking of character. They wouldn't even use that word.  11:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They'd say that's a person that's like my sister right, and you know what A lot of times I'll tell people to do. Maybe for the second take right is maybe change your character a little bit, One that still makes sense, but change your character or change the scenario.  11:16 - Intro (Announcement) Change the scene.  11:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Like maybe you're in a hurry or maybe you're in a different place, Maybe you're outside, or maybe you're inside in an office and maybe the person you're talking to right has a different reaction or has got different issues with what you're saying. Or maybe they've got a backstory that you're responding to and that backstory changes, and so you're responding in a slightly different way, but one that still makes sense, right for the words on the page. Right.  11:44 And that can give you a really great second take, more so than oh, that second take just has to sound different, right? So if you can push I'm going to say if you can push your creative mind to always take in the scene creating that character and moving that character through the scene, and then do a take two right, create a different scene, create a slightly different character, one that still makes sense and Law, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to have you probably reinforce what I always tell people Does it matter that we don't have the storyboard? Does it matter that our story is correct from the final version of the video or whatever it is that we're creating, or the commercial? I think?  12:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) that in every single thing we do, Anne, I think that in every single thing we do, Anne, there's blind, there's stuff behind walls that we don't see and we're not privy to and we don't know, and that's okay. That's where us, as creatives, come in and say I can create different interpretations, I can create different scenarios. And then, as they give me the feedback or direct me, or maybe they just say hey, you gave me three, they're fabulous, we like it, we're done.  12:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know what I mean. And let me ask you another question, which I know a lot of times people will complain about this. They'll say well, why do they write it this way, right? And then we don't know what it means. I have no idea what it means, but yet they want us to sound like we're talking to our friend, or they want us to what they really want. Maybe they're not telling you for a very good reason, right? Maybe they're not giving you that storyboard for a good reason because they want to hear your creative, artistic interpretation or impression of it.  13:28 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right. Typically, I would say don't waste too much time or energy wondering why it was created this way, why it was crafted this way it was. Now let's see what we can do with it. And you know a lot of directors, a lot of young and up-and-coming directors I've noticed stylistically are very different than years gone by. They're doing a lot more impromptu, a lot more improv, a lot more stuff like that. So sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you're going to have the license and the leisure that you're working with someone who says is that natural for you or do you need to change something there? Right? And that actually happens a lot more than we think, where, in essence, we're editing the script on the spot when we're doing a job because we're coming up with something that they didn't realize works better.  14:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, absolutely Absolutely, and a lot of times it can spur them into new creative avenues as well, to say, well, I didn't think about it like that, but you know what I really like your take on that, and so how wonderful is that? It's wonderful. I often think that we're given this creative challenge and we should embrace that challenge and not be so determined to get in 100 auditions a day in our studio where we're just going and I know what it should sound like. I really feel as though we don't take enough time and sometimes even I have to remind myself right in a busy day. We're always so busy that I need to really sit back and let's think and let's kind of enjoy the process, let's enjoy the creativity, let's enjoy and embrace the challenge of creating a character and really figuring out and it's not easy Law, is it easy?  15:02 - Lau Lapides (Host) No, I mean human relations. Right, human behavior is never easy because you're always dealing with true, authentic interface with another person, like we are doing a reasonable facsimile of real life. That's what we're doing. It's not real life, we're in a booth under a light, but in essence we're doing that reasonable facsimile of it and we have to understand that your character is capable of anything. When someone says, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that, I say, oh, I don't know why she's saying that she would never say that.  15:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I said, yes, she would. Yes, she could If the situation were appropriate. Yeah, of course she could. If you want me to be conversational, you know, and I feel like that word is now got it's a dirty word now, but I just want to say Well, it's exhausted.  15:45 - Lau Lapides (Host) It is exhausted, they use it a lot and conversational.  15:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so many different ways to be conversational. I mean law. I have conversations every day, like every single day of my life. We have conversations.  15:54 So, it's a fact of life that we have conversations. Now, when somebody gives me the direction that they want it to be, conversational, there's so many different, like 360 degrees of conversational. It could be casual, it could be authoritative, the conversation could be authoritative, the conversation could be shifting, and again along with the character, right. And so I think that conversational is just meant to be. Well, let's not make it sound announcery, right? So what's the other word for it? But honestly, I engage every day with other people and with things and with circumstances and so-.  16:25 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's your practice. That's your practice is to really do it right, and I can tell you, one of the biggest mistakes that actors make, whatever they're doing, is to say how do I sound, do I?  16:35 sound real, Do I sound? And I said, listen, if I came into this coaching session, I said with Joe. I said, coming in, I want to sound real with Joe, I want to coach Joe and I want to sound real. Wouldn't you think I'm crazy? And he'd say I think that was crazy. I'd say, well, that's what you're doing right now. You're doing that right now with a real person or a real entity, a character that's not coming in and saying I want to feel real, I want to look real, I want to sound real. They're saying no, I want to get a point across to you. I want to help you with something, I want to do something with you.  17:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm going to say that, well, I wouldn't say that right in a normal situation. But the deal is, is that that's not you as an actor? It is your job to make the words on the page sound logical and sound like they would be something you would say. That is your job as an actor. Right? There's no excuse. What do you mean? You would never say that it doesn't matter. We're not asking if you would ever say that In this particular instance, you need to act as though that is a perfectly natural thing to say and a perfectly understandable, logical, emphatically lovely thing for you to say.  17:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, you're an actor, act right. But I mean, how do you know that? Do you know that? For a fact Like, why limit your potential? Why put caps on your creativity? Why not say, okay, the craziest thing I could possibly do, I'll think about doing it Now. Maybe if the circumstance and context were right for that, you would do it. Oh gosh, yeah, but chances are, you may never know right.  18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I always am arguing with people about is saying well, yes, you absolutely could say that, as long as you understand what the story is leading up to it. Right Again, you picked that moment before. What is that conversation you're having? What's happening before? Tell me about who you're talking to and what is their pain point. What is their problem? What are they reacting to? Or why are you talking to them with the first words of the sentence? Why are you saying that to them? There has to be a reason. They said something to you, there was an action that happened and you are reacting to it.  18:35 It doesn't mean that your first words out of your mouth may be the exact first words in that, but you can lead into it and you can say well, actually, yes, here's your issue, and I want to tell you about first word coming now, right? So what happens is the first word coming now doesn't just pop out of the air, like I don't think law when we get together, I don't just go welcome to module one or, once upon a time, law. No, we've evolved into a conversation. There's been history. You know I have empathy to. Right now, you're in a hurry, right? So I want to make sure I'm not wasting your time, and so there's a backstory that you have to develop.  19:13 You have to develop it. And I don't care what script, any script, any script. Even if you're reading about a pharmaceutical medicine and the effects that it has, do you know what I mean? Like, I want you to be like telling the person that's reading the back of the label, that thinks that they might have 10 of those symptoms and making them feel better about it, right? So there's a story there. Make that story make sense, okay.  19:36 - Lau Lapides (Host) So the listener says, great, all well and good, but what if I haven't experienced any of this, I haven't gone through it, I don't have the context for it. I say, well, if you can surmise a bottom line for your character, what is happening? Say, the character is jumping out of a plane right now, that's what your characters do, but I've never jumped out of a plane. I don't know what that is. Yes, but you've taken extreme risks and you know what fear is and you know what that moment is. Even just building a business is very risky and fear-based. Call upon that moment in you.  20:06 That's real. It's a substitution method that we have to use, because there's a lot of things in scripts we haven't experienced or industries we're not in. But we have to connect it with very real reservoir of emotion so that the character doesn't become one-dimensional or plastic. It is real. You're fooling us, you're tricking us, what they call in ancient Greek theater you're a hypocrite with a why meaning. You're able to mimic a feeling, an emotion that is very, very real for you because it's coming from you, even though you didn't have the actual experience. And that's what building your character is really all about is really taking from your life, your real history, your real experiences, and matching it up with the characters in her life, the characters' experience, even though they may be different.  20:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I agree and I'll tell you what. And again I stress that, no matter what you're looking at, even if it's like a telephony script like thank you for calling Rite Aid, right, yeah, why are you saying that, right? Obviously somebody's called you on the phone and they literally need to check on their prescription. They're probably frustrated because maybe the text came through and it's not ready yet, and so they're calling Rite Aid and they're frustrated.  21:19 Right Now I'm building empathy, right. I'm building empathy for the person who's going to be on the other end of the line from my message that says thank you for calling Rite Aid, right. So I understand that they are busy. I understand that they're frustrated, so I'm going to approach that with a character that's going to make them feel at ease or feel better, and so I've developed this story, I've developed my character and maybe I'll be bright, but I'm not going to be overly bright so that they get really annoyed at that. And it's funny, because I do telephony, I have no ego. Look, I get paid to do it. I do telephony, I do corporate, I do explainers, I do e-learning, I do commercial.  21:58 I mean I do a lot more of the non-broadcast Of course, but the funny thing is is that for every single script I am talking to someone, I am a character. I have a couple of different characters that I have worked on for my telephony scripts and, depending on the on-hold messages which, by the way, lollapiedes, on-hold messages are nothing more than 15 to 20 second commercials. Did you know?  22:22 - Intro (Announcement) Right and I actually have.  22:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the majority of my customers ask me to be very relatable and not like that. Hey, did you know 99.9% of people do this and for $9.95, we have today's special deal. No, they want me to be real and so I have to create that character that is engaging with someone who's super frustrated, that doesn't want to be on hold, that is going customer service customer service and you know what.  22:53 - Lau Lapides (Host) If anyone has hosted a party or hosted a dinner in their home or in their apartment, you know what it's like to host. You know what it's like to welcome people into your space and make them comfortable, and that's what they're asking you for in that situation.  23:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How do you say thank you for calling and mean it right? Everybody in the world wants to go. Thank you for calling right, hello, no, I want to hear it as if you really are thankful, that you're really thankful that they called Right and so you've got to really dig deep for that. I'm just saying dig deep for that telephony because you are a character, no matter what.  23:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) We could talk about this forever. Character is in everything, it's everywhere, and everything it's all of life.  23:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah Right, it's a wonderful conversation. I think we should have part two of the series.  23:41 - Lau Lapides (Host) I was just thinking that Part two, part two for sure.  23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, bosses, be a character. You are characters. Be a character for everything that you do in voiceover, and you can be a character and find out more about IPDTL, who is our sponsor, going to give them a great big old shout out. Find out more about IPDTL at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you, bosses, next week. Bye, see you next time.  24:06 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.  24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. You know what I mean.  24:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Otherwise.  24:38 - Lau Lapides (Host) I wouldn't. I wouldn't do it so quickly. Hang on one second. Do you hear that. What is that? I don't know. Okay, maybe it was something outside. Jerry, okay, I'm podcasting, I'll be. Was something outside Jerry?  25:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay, I'm podcasting. I'll be out in a few minutes. Okay, is Jerry out there? Yes, I think that's my husband being loud. Well, jeremy's out here.  25:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) So it was one of our husbands. Oh, was it one of our husbands For.  25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God's sake.  25:14 - Lau Lapides (Host) Jerry's over there and Jeremy's over here.  25:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tell Jeremy to be quiet.  25:20 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie says be, he's over here, tell Jeremy to be quiet. And he says be quiet, shut the fuck up. What are you doing, jesus Christ? Oh my God, that's so funny. I can't even close these doors.  25:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my God, but that's so funny because normally I don't hear anything, but I couldn't tell if it was Jeremy, if it was outside of yours or mine. But my, my husband just opened the door and I was like, what the heck Like so well, we did, we did the show. You want to do an outro? I mean, we did this is going to be well, just FYI, uh, this is going to be good for you, james. This'll be like an outtake. So, by the way, bosses, when you're, when you've got people running, this is why studios still have signs that say shh, recording, because even though we have great studios and I've, I've got, you know, acoustic panels and everything, if somebody's right outside this door and they're screaming or they're being loud, we're gonna be able to hear it. Yep, so, anyways, back to our back to our, uh, our discussion. Okay, so pick up.   

Discover indispensable strategies for maintaining an engaging online presence, even when social media fatigue sets in. From MySpace and Facebook's early days to today's multifaceted platforms, Anne and Tom explore how social media has transformed into a cornerstone for business promotion. Learn to create content that captivates both human audiences and social media algorithms, and understand how mastering these algorithms can elevate your marketing game. Gain insights on how social media plays a crucial role in purchasing decisions and the etiquette voice actors must follow. The BOSSes share essential tips on how potential clients vet companies and individuals through their social media presence. Experience the power of video content and the importance of authenticity in connecting with your audience. Learn why the algorithm favors video and how being genuine can build trust and likability among your followers. Anne. andTom address the continuous challenges in voice acting, emphasizing the need for consistency, strategic planning, and adapting to industry trends. 00:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, how's it going? Bosses Anne Genguza here. Elevate your voiceover game with our VIPeeps membership. With VIP membership, you can access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, promos, character animation, audiobooks, video games, corporate narration, audio description or dubbing, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary free monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPeeps today at vopeepscom and take your voiceover career to new heights.  00:44 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back Real Boss Tom Dheere to the show.  01:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Hello, hey, , hello, hello, hello.  01:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How are you?  01:19 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm good, how are?  01:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you, I'm good, tom. I have to apologize for being late because I was creating content for my social media. And it's still a thing you would think, after all these years, tom, both you and I have been active on social media, it would get easier, like maybe quicker, but it just doesn't. I mean, it is time consuming. I think we should talk about it, because real bosses need to get out there on social media and present themselves as real bosses.  01:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) This is also one of the questions that's most asked of me, as the video strategist is talking about how to come up with an effective social media presence. So, yeah, I think this is one that a lot of people are going to want to tune in for.  01:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, social media has just well, it's just blown up, obviously I mean, but back in the day, back in the day when I first got into voiceover, there wasn't much social media out there. Facebook was just now. I'm dating myself, right, facebook was just evolving.  02:14 I think I've been part of Facebook since its evolution which was in gosh the early 2000s right, and so Facebook was the first social media and then other ones popped up after that and they've just exploded and then I think they kind of went beyond where people are now like, possibly social media tired. Oh God, yes, I have social media fatigue, social media fatigue, but yet there's still very much a necessity for running our businesses and advertising our businesses.  02:47 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, I think I joined Facebook in 2007. And before that I had a MySpace account which I was active on. If you remember MySpace.  02:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I do.  02:56 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there was a little bit of voiceover stuff going on on MySpace. And then Facebook came and the interface was just, you know, superior, so everybody migrated. Myspace still exists, but it doesn't even look remotely what it used to look like or function Now. It's only for musicians or something like that.  03:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Facebook was great in the beginning. Remember.  03:11 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, back in. It was just like what are you doing? You know, you just post what you're doing. This is what I had for lunch.  03:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yep exactly. Nobody still cares what I had for lunch.  03:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I don't care what I had for lunch.  03:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I do, because now I'm into health and so sometimes people want to know what I mean. There you go.  03:31 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, okay, I think that's the first thing to talk about is like why should you post anything on social media as a voice actor? Right, and it's evolved. When I post on social media and also here's, the thing with you and I, anne, is that we're both full-time voice actors who are always marketing, looking for clients, voiceover clients, but we're also coaches, thought leaders, presenters, guests on podcasts, you know, and doing things like this. So we are also on social media looking for students as well Students, listeners, followers.  04:09 Students, listeners, fans. You know connections of fellow voice actors, of aspiring voice actors, voice actors in all parts of their journey because we can help them with all of our products and services. So you and I have like a dual agenda when we are on social media.  04:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We have a broad audience. We have a broad audience that we want to reach.  04:24 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. So if you're one of the VO bosses who's watching, who is most likely not a coach, not a demo producer, not a thought leader, not a podcast host, you're just like what do I do?  04:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, if you're a boss, you're always a thought leader.  04:35 - Tom Dheere (Guest) That's what I like to think, Ooh, I gleefully stand corrected. Yes, I like to think that.  04:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I mean that's fantastic Because to be a thought leader, let's create content around that.  04:45 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yes, okay, so that's what I wanted to get to is like why are you on social media, who are you talking to and what do you have to say? So, in its broadest terms, I've learned that to be effective on social media as a voice actor is to feed the humans and the robots.  05:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. Feed the humans and the robots Absolutely yeah, just similar strategy for anything digital these days, right.  05:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, it's always been true, but now, just as my understanding of marketing in general and social media marketing in particular, and all the platforms, I tell all of my students your job is to feed the algorithms.  05:23 Feed the algorithms of search engine optimization Google, bing, yahoo to increase your page ranking. Feed the algorithms of online casting sites like Voicescom, voice123, badalgo, so on and so forth, but also feed the algorithms of social media. Figure out what those robots like to eat and feed it to them, and also understand that different social media platform algorithms, because this is what we're really talking about. Different algorithms reward you for different behavior. Yes, absolutely. Instagram is primarily photos.  05:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, and video now, and video now.  05:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Well, that's the next thing is that, like Facebook used to be for typing, twitter used to be just for words. Back then, it was 140 characters.  06:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted.  06:08 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah you for typing. Twitter used to be just for words. Back then it was 140 characters. Oh my gosh, remember that when we were restricted. Yeah, you're restricted to 140. Then it went to 280 and it may be unlimited. Instagram is just for pictures, youtube is just for videos, but now all of them are competing with each other so much that all the platforms are super watered down because they're trying to take users away from other social media platforms. So, on all the social media platforms, you can write stuff down, except for YouTube, but you can post photos, you can post videos, you know, and you're encouraged to do all of those things. So that's why it can get really confusing. But when the coders first made all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind.  06:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You're right, they had specific. Yeah, all of those platforms, they had one thrust in mind. You're right, they had specific. Yeah, twitter was the short post. Yeah, absolutely, youtube was always the video, instagram was the photo, and they all had, like, their purpose.  06:52 But, you're right, now that they're competing with one another, they're starting to kind of have all these different capabilities, and now the amount of content out there is insane. And so, as bosses, you need to be able to stand out right and kind of cut through the chaos, and I think there's two things to be really aware of. Number one is your purpose, right, your purpose on social media, and especially if you want to get work right on social media versus use it as a social platform, remember that there was a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for a personal and a business page for Facebook, and you could do the same thing for, like, instagram and all of the other platforms. You can have a business page and a personal page. But I think, with the whole authenticity, be real, real bosses, with that kind of evolving over the progression of social media, now you want to make sure that you are authentic and being who you are and not being selly because now people are like, no, don't sell to me Right right.  07:50 - Tom Dheere (Guest) A video that we did not too long ago was about branding, and I think I talked about in that video that voice actors can be grouped into two categories public voice actors and private voice actors. The public voice actors are the audio book narrators, the video game narrators, the cartoon narrators, because those are the ones that when someone listens to your audio book, plays your video game, watches your cartoon, you know who the voice actor is in that.  08:15 Everybody else is a private voice actor and people want to search you and everybody else is private, voice actor, e-learning explainer, corporate. When you narrate that content, the only people that are going corporate when you narrate that content, the only people that are going to know who is voicing that content is the producers of the content. The consumer of the content, the employee or the student, have no idea that Anne or Tom or anybody else narrated that content. So why do I bring this up? Think about that as it applies to social media. If you are an audiobook narrator, if you're a video game narrator, if you're a cartoon narrator, you've got a lot more tools in your tool belt to effectively use social media, because you're not just trying to connect with voice seekers, like all voice actors are in all genres You're also, if you're an audiobook narrator, you're trying to connect with authors.  09:01 You're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're trying to connect with authors, you're trying to connect with rights holders. You're trying to connect with listeners. If you're a video game narrator on social media, you're trying to connect with the people who play the video games and can become a fan of the characters that you portray, same with the cartoon voice actors.  09:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with that it's dual purpose. Right, because you, as the voice actor, are not only voicing, but you're also marketing for the company. Right, marketing for the.  09:28 - Tom Dheere (Guest) And there's a little more responsibility with that, because when you are marketing on social media and saying, hey, I was the voice of this character in Halo or Fallout or Arkham Asylum or in this Cartoon Network show, you are representing that company. So you need to be very, very careful how you comport yourself, because you don't want to do anything to damage the reputation of the product, service company, stockholder, shareholder or whatever.  09:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's actually really good advice, no matter what you do, because, again, you think about even if you're voicing e-learning or corporate, but yet you might be on social media bashing the script or something and saying how poorly written it was or how you're annoyed at your client, and so it's always a good idea to just serve it up with a little bit of professionalism, because you don't know how many eyeballs are on Right.  10:18 A lot of times it's really hard to tell who's watching, who's looking, and a lot of times people aren't commenting either. There's so many things that I scroll through on a day to day basis on social media that I read and I just don't comment on. I don't even comment, I don't like it, I don't react. But yet I've formulated opinions about certain people depending on the post, and if I thought, oh, that is a little bit harsh or oh, I'm not so sure, I'd want to work with that person, and so I've made my judgments based on the post. And gosh, this has just been preaching to the choir, but we've been saying that for years. Is you have to be aware of what you post? I mean, it has an effect.  10:58 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm sure that you have a list in your head of fellow voice actors who you've observed on social media that you're like oh, I love what they have to say. They're so thoughtful and so smart and so funny and so insightful. I would just love to come up with an excuse to work with that person based on their social media presence. And then the other side of the coin.  11:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In reality, I remember those a whole lot more sometimes.  11:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Do you know what I mean Because?  11:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) the ones who are not presenting well on social media are the ones that are like, oh, watch out, watch out for that one.  11:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and that's the thing is like we all have a little list in our head of the people voice actors that we see on social media and, based on how they're comporting themselves, it's like I will never work with that person, either as a coach or as a fellow voice actor maybe as a coach to maybe try to help them see the error of their ways with how they are presenting themselves on social media.  11:42 But it's just like it's very easy to behave yourself out of the voiceover industry based on your social media content. You and I have seen it happen multiple times where people implode on social media, and it could be for any of a number of reasons, and that's just a peer-to-peer thing. I mean. What our bosses want to know is about voice seekers who are navigating social media. I will say this is that the vast majority of voice seekers are not paying any attention to anything that any of us are doing on social media. Why? Because they're too busy making their own social media content in hopes that they can get clients to give them money to make their content their explainer videos or e-learning modules or audio books.  12:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless of course.  12:30 I'm going to say there might be that exception when, when you get somebody who finds you on the Web, right, you've been referred. And then they go to your Web site, they see who you are and you've got your social media links there, right, they've listened to your demos, they like you. Or even if you're reaching out to them on email and you've got your social media links on your email. I would suspect. I mean, I know I've done it with certain brands that I found interest in. I will go to their social media just to check it out. I don't investigate, unless, of course, it's.  12:59 I don't know, maybe it's a product that I want to buy, but I'm not going to go crazy in depth, but I will take a quick look at oh, there's a YouTube channel. Let's see what they've got there. Maybe they've got other products, or maybe they have like a help section or they have something, a tutorial, and so I will kind of breeze through the social media to see if it's something that I want to follow. Because I'll tell you what the way I'm making my purchase decisions these days is really a lot online, through influencers, through following on social media, through SMS text messages. That's a lot of the communication for people saying here I've got a product, are you interested?  13:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right. You've made an excellent point, which is that if they do, and when they do, check you out on social media, which is usually related to, you've done your marketing you have social media links on your website and then they give it a click. They're vetting you. And you know what? In my experience, when they are vetting you, they're looking to see and you said this if you're a client, basher they're looking to see if you're an.  14:03 NDA violator. You'd be shocked at how many voice actors implode on social media because they're posting videos of their auditions. This is the cardinal sin of so many people.  14:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you take nothing else away from this podcast, that is yeah that is the cardinal sin.  14:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Assume that every audition that you do is under an NDA. Always do that.  14:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Audition and client. Like don't even speak a client name until you've got something that's out there published and you've got permission, that's all. I say All that humble bragging I mean I think that's fine, but it's great when you've got the permission to do so.  14:41 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah. So what I always tell my students is that if you want to record yourself doing auditions to have social media content, do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait, Do it Great, Go for it. Then you wait. You wait until the project's been cast, whether it's you or somebody else and wait until the finished product is posted online. It's front-facing, whether it's you or not. Once you've cleared those two hurdles it being cast and it being posted then you can post it.  15:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But even then— but honestly, why not? Just write your own script.  15:12 - Tom Dheere (Guest) I'm just saying yeah, if you want to show off.  15:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean write your own script. There's so many tools out there. Tom and I think we had an episode. Yes, yeah, there's so many script libraries out there.  15:23 - Tom Dheere (Guest) What tool could I use to write a script these?  15:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) days, or where could I find a script? There's tons of stuff out there. I mean honestly. There's Scripps, libraries everywhere and, as a matter of fact, there's tons of finished products and commercials out there already in reality, and you could just rewrite one of those.  15:38 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You know what else you could do. Anne is like. I've seen a lot of voice actors over the years who will find a company and they'll look at their content online and listen to the voice actor and the voice actor is awful and what they'll do is they'll re-record it and send it to them and say compare the difference. Wouldn't you rather work with me? If you want to find something that's on social media and the voice acting is not great, you could record yourself doing a better job. You got to be careful about that because you may insult the client because they didn't make good business choices and you may insult the voice actor who did the job.  16:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, don't try to get the work by insulting. That's the biggest thing.  16:14 And I always say that you know to my students when they're quick to say the copy is not correct and so I'll just record it the correct way. And I'm like, be careful of that, because usually that copy has been through rounds and rounds of approvals and if you just come up and say, oh, you made a mistake like nobody wants to hear that they've made a mistake, especially if it's gone through multiple approvals right, so you're better off. I would say, subtly communicating with your client, like, hey, I recorded this extra take just in case that's what you meant for the script and give that to them. Don't charge them for it.  16:43 Give that to them, and then you'll be the hero, you'll be the savior of the day, and that is honestly they'll be like thank you, anne. I can't believe it got through all of these people right. Or I can't believe I made that mistake and forgot the S on the end of that word or whatever it is. You know what I mean. Nobody wants to be finger pointed at and said well, you just did a stupid thing and you made a mistake, Right.  17:02 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So I do that all the time. I have a lot of European clients, yeah, and it's a lot of translated scripts, because often I'm asked to do an explainer video that's already been produced in French or Italian or whatever. And they say here's the updated script.  17:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I have so many clients now who say Tom, make whatever changes you need to make in the script Exactly, which is lovely, but if you, don't have that permission structure with a relatively new client, give them alts.  17:26 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, yeah, yeah, give them alts, just give them alts All day long. Give them alts all day opportunity and don't charge them for it.  17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I never charge them for that To me that's nickel and diming and that's not the professionalism I want to show my client.  17:37 - Tom Dheere (Guest) So, on social media, obviously avoid insulting anyone on any level, but one of the most important things to do to try to put yourself out there as a voice actor on social media is to demonstrate value and progress. What is your value as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate that on social media? What progress have you made as a voice actor? How can you demonstrate on that social media? I'm now going to contradict myself, anne. Oh, okay, the most important thing is just be a human. Yes, be a good human, hanging out with good humans, collecting good humans, sharing good human stuff with good humans. That's more important than any explainer video that you could post.  18:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it doesn't have to be work-related.  18:14 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Exactly A lot of times, when you're posting content about voiceover accomplishments, it comes out as very braggadocious, yes, and self-aggrandizing.  18:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and, yeah, I think, if you just showcased your personality, showcase who you are and bring some. I'm going to say these days, a lot of social media is either educational or entertainment-based, right? So why do I watch videos? Right? And videos, of course, I mean. This is why we're recording in video, tom, because video seems to be the media of choice.  18:43 - Tom Dheere (Guest) The algorithm rewards it the most.  18:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, in order to cut through the chaos. So of course, there's video. So, guys, you got to get brave and I'll tell you what. I've been making videos for many years and it's not something that you can do quickly. It does take some thought, some strategy and some practice to get good at it. But if you're authentic, right, and you're showcasing and you're trying to really bring value to the people who are watching, that's going to come through, and so it makes it, in a way, easy. You don't have to be like, oh, I do voiceover or even demonstrate, Because if you're just talking into the camera and you're being authentic and real, guess what? Guess what 90% of the casting specs are written to hello real conversational authentic and allow yourself to come through.  19:27 allow that and it's interesting because I always say for my students, like the last layer to put on top of your voiceover script or your audition is the point of view, is your emotion right? And that is what. When we're talking to one another, gosh, we bring that out in spades, but yet somehow, when there's words in front of us that aren't our own right, it's very difficult to figure out what point of view, or we can't get past the read of it to even showcase right the point of view. And so when you're out there on social media, connect to people with your heart, connect to people with your authenticity, and people hire people they know like and trust. Isn't that like 101, like marketing 101? People hire people that they know like and trust. So have them get to know you on social media have them get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media.  20:12 All the get to like you on social media and have them trust you on social media All the three things.  20:16 - Tom Dheere (Guest) My most powerful social media tool that I've had for 20 years is blogging, Blogging, putting it on your website and then getting it out there on social media and the specific tool within my blog is a video.  20:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) A video and a blog, I think.  20:33 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Video. Oh God, the combination is it's a synergistic combination, but the tool within the blog that I would put on social media. That was a big part of getting me to where I am today, as both a voice actor and the video strategist was talking about all the ways that I screwed up.  20:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I had a tip of the week.  20:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) For like almost 15 years. I had a tip of the week in all of my blogs, which is this is the mistake that I made last week as a voice actor. This is what I learned. And I'm going to pass along that lesson to you, so you do not make that mistake. Before that, all of it was just self-aggrandizing. Look at me, look at me, look at me. And nobody read my blog Once I started talking about my vulnerability and my mistakes and my humanity.  21:15 My social media presence got a lot stronger. I was connecting with a lot more people. I got a lot more readers and subscribers. So it's always made a difference because social media, it's social media. They use that word for a reason.  21:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And it's so interesting because you want to present yourself in a certain way on social media or it's always been like oh, you know the whole filter thing, right. So you talk about the filters, especially for like women, and people are like okay, I'm showing my face, I've got photos, I've got video now and here's a filter. And I think that people are just again, they can see through the filters and they really want that authenticity.  21:53 And for me, as much as I want to say I want to look great on camera a lot of times if I sit here and say to you well, my gosh, you know what, I've got these wrinkles, or I've got some sort of physical like I may have just lost a bunch of weight, but I'll tell you what I've got loose skin now. So I'm really working hard, right, so that I can feel better, get better. And so if, by admitting that and the vulnerability of how I still feel, like, oh, I want to look perfect, but I'm certainly not, and I tell people about that, that's what's going to connect people with me, to want to follow me, is that okay? So she's not that perfect looking filtered face or body or gosh, I have so many flaws. And I think if I say my flaws, that's what makes people say, oh, identify, I've got those flaws too. So I feel like if she can feel confident, then I can.  22:44 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Right, right. If there's one thing I've learned over the past few years, is that voice acting it doesn't get any easier.  22:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, it doesn't, it just doesn't.  22:54 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's just different and new types of hard. So Anne and I, who are much farther along in our voiceover journey than many of our bosses, we have our own struggles.  23:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We just have different sets of struggles.  23:06 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You're having struggles as bosses when it comes to getting training, getting a demo, building a website, setting up the home recording studio.  23:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Figuring out what to post on social media.  23:15 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Figuring out what to post on social media and you recording studio, figuring out what to post on social media, figuring out what to post on social media. And you know, anne and I have checked off those boxes years ago, but you know what. We still need new microphones, we need to replace cables, we need to upgrade our dogs, we still need to record content, we still need to follow industry trends to make sure our performance is relevant to what current casting is calling for.  23:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And we need to evolve with social media because that is honestly how we get eyes on our business, that's how we market. And, tom, if I had a nickel, for the amount of times I consulted with somebody that said, how do I get work? I mean, this is what you do, too right? How do I get?  23:51 work in voiceover. Well, you can have the best voice in the world, but if nobody knows about it, they can't hire you. I say that over and over again, and so how are they going to see you, how are they going to hear you? Right?  24:02 You've got to advertise, and advertising is more than just. Of course, you can do the mining on LinkedIn and get yourself some contacts and do some cold calling. You can even do some direct mail marketing. But I'll tell you what. As I just mentioned, boss has a great product for that, a Boss Plus. But you've got to make sure that these days, you are really tailoring it to your audience. You have to tailor it because there's just so much information and even email now it's harder and harder to get through somebody's inbox, and so you've got to be very strategy conscious when you are creating those emails. You have to know who your audience is. You have to know how to talk to them, just like you do on social media.  24:39 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, To be great is to be consistently good, and you can't just do the occasional blast on social media, get bored, tired, scared or busy and then just wander off and then go back. Because here's another thing the algorithms of social media need to be fed consistently, you know, and not all of your content is going to be top notch viral content. It's just not going to be what the algorithm recognizes. Consistency as a result of persistency on your part. It is not a sprint, it is a marathon.  25:13 So to be consistently posting on social media, whether it's photos or videos or blogs or other content. You have to be consistent. Come up with a long-term strategy. Come up with a schedule. There's so many content schedulers out there. There's so many AI-related tools out there to help you come up with ideas for your social media content, Create your social media content Schedule and post your social media content. It takes thought. It takes work.  25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It takes time and it's not easy.  25:42 - Tom Dheere (Guest) No, Anne and I were talking about this before we started recording. It's a constant struggle to come up with new interesting content, assemble the content, edit the content and then schedule the content. And then the second you click that publish or schedule, it's like, okay, what's the next thing I got to do? Amen.  25:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean amen Again. Like I keep bringing this up, like if I have people that sign up for my free consults and they say you know what? I've got a great demo, but I can't get work, there's two things right Either it's your performance and your auditions, or it's you haven't marketed yourself enough. And again, I can guarantee more than half the time it's going to be the fact that you didn't market yourself enough. You have to market yourself, like insanely, and these days, to market yourself, social media is a huge part of that picture. It just is.  26:28 And so what do you do when you're just a voice talent, right? And how are you going to market yourself? How are you going to, like, think outside the box? Well, as Tom and I mentioned before, what can you bring to the table that brings either some educational value or some even entertainment value? I feel like voice artists can really bring the entertainment value, because that's really, when I scroll at night, that's what I'm looking at, things that bring me entertainment value, because my brain is fried, because my brain is fried, and so I feel like as voice actors, as actors, we can do something creative and gosh. There's always podcasting, too. That's a form of social well, it's podcasting, but I consider it like a social media marketing.  27:07 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Oh, it absolutely is. What do you do? The second your podcast is published. Where's the first place you go?  27:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I social media market the podcast.  27:13 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You put it on social media.  27:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly exactly. And that podcast doesn't have to be talking about voiceover. That podcast can simply be whatever you're passionate about, whatever you're experienced in. Bring that past experience to your podcast. I mean, the possibilities are unlimited. And with that, without you direct marketing and hard selling your voice, you've got a platform where people hear your voice and they hear your voice on a consistent basis. And if you end up doing like Riverside, like we do, or some sort of video podcast, they're going to see you as well. So look at, you've just like killed how many birds with you know. I mean, you've just literally checked off multiple boxes just by having a podcast, that's video recorded.  27:52 - Tom Dheere (Guest) Yeah, and they're hard to put together and you know you need a creative team. You need to be able to be objective and figure out what are you lacking, what skill sets are you lacking, and do you develop those skills or do you outsource those tasks? But the most important thing of all of this stuff, regardless of the social media platform you use whether it's video or audio or pictures or whatever is that your most valuable asset to having a strong social media presence as a voice actor is you. You are unique. You have your own set of thoughts and feelings and opinions and experiences. Everything that happened to you before this moment informs you in this moment. So so many of my students try to sell themselves short. Well, I just started to be a voice actor, so I'm not worth anything. Yeah, but it's like weren't you a teacher for 20 years?  28:41 Yeah, well weren't you a registered nurse for 25 years? Well, maybe you know, it's like you have so much stuff to share.  28:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You have so many amazing life experiences and stories, all of which can be analogous you know, or allegorical, or anecdotal or any other SAT word I can come up with, because of all the A words you've just come up with A lot of A words in there, like Ann, to informing Thomas.  29:05 - Tom Dheere (Guest) There's an A in Thomas, but no one calls me Thomas, except for relatives that aren't with me anymore. But, like, all of those things can inform your social media presence, because who you are is authentic. The more authentic you can be, regardless of the content, the more you're going to resonate with people. Just to be successful on social media, be a good human, collect good humans, share human stories. That's your best bet to be successful as a boss.  29:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What a wonderful note to end our discussion on actually yeah, be a lovely human and bring that to the masses. Oh gosh, we could probably go on forever about social media, but guys bosses, do the thing. As Mark Scott would say, do the thing. Or who else ever says that? It is something that does take time, it takes a strategy. It is a marathon and not a sprint. So thank you, tom, for chatting with me today about that. Always lovely to chat with you.  29:57 - Tom Dheere (Guest) You too.  29:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All right bosses. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  30:09 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne welcomes the talented Tawny Platis, an accomplished voice actor and viral content creator. Tawny shares her compelling story, from her early days in childhood acting to launching a successful retail business at just 18, and ultimately thriving in the competitive voiceover industry. Their conversation unearths the business behind content creation and the effort required to engage audiences effectively. The BOSSes insights reveal the importance of passion and joy in crafting content that resonates, whether it's through comedy or informative storytelling. Tawny recounts her own path to becoming a viral sensation and shares how blending various skills and experiences can lead to a fulfilling and impactful career. Tawny shares practical tips for newcomers, from adapting one's voice for various professional settings to building a solid business foundation. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, are you struggling with that ever-elusive, real, conversational, authentic, like you're talking to your best friend, Reed Book? Coaching with me and I'll help you take your voice over to a real and believable place. Find out more at annganguzacom.  00:21 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey, everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so very excited to have with me in the studio special guest voice actor and boss viral content creator, tawny Plattis, packard, raid, shadow Legends, raycon Headphones and a billion more Too many for me to read. She's also currently the voice of Harmony's mom in the House on the Outland series by Make Animations and is going to play Sophie Bott in the upcoming Garbage People film now streaming on Tubi Tawny yay, you're here Finally.  01:23 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It was a long time coming. I'm so happy to be here.  01:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so, so much for taking a piece of your busy day and talking with us. Gosh, I've been following you for a long time and, I think, to a lot of people in the industry. All of a sudden they're like hey, have you seen this girl with this? Is it the 10 different styles of voiceover? Which is where I? That's the big one, that's the big one, right? Have you seen this girl? I'm like gosh, she's amazing and I'm like I've known that for many years. So perhaps you could take our bosses, who are not as familiar with you as I am and, by the way, I've been a fan of yours and I've watched you like rebrand, like through my eyes, and we could have five episodes talking about what a boss you are. But why don't you tell our bosses a little bit about your journey into voiceover and your career as it stands today?  02:13 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, I actually got my first voiceover job when I was six years old for a local radio station in San Diego, but my first on-camera role was for a baby blanket ad, also local to San Diego, when I was about four months old. So I've been doing this for a lot of decades now and kept doing that, you know, local child actor type of stuff until I turned 18. And then I started a retail store because I think we both know at this point, you know, the acting biz is very volatile.  02:41 So I was like I need to make sure I have like a backup plan just in case. This doesn't work out. So my backup plan was to start a retail business. Funny enough, what were you retailing? Just out of curiosity, if you're familiar with like consignment type stores like Buffalo Exchange, I did that, but it was like baby and maternity stuff.  02:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, wow, I love that. And was that just something you decided to do on your own Kind of?  03:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I had worked retail. I started working retail when I was like 15, 16, I want to say and I had a knack for it. I was pretty good at sales and I was like I think I could open a store, I think I could do this. I love that. So I was 18 and I did that my senior year of high school. I started doing that. Everybody else was getting ready to go to college and I was opening a store in the neighborhood over to mine and I built it up. It was just me, one other person from this little 500 square foot hole in the wall spot over two years to a 5,000 square foot warehouse type of store and it had 10 to 15 employees. And our biggest year, we did a little under a million dollars in sales.  03:40 So I went from doing like $150 a day in sales to doing that and being able to be financially independent by the time I was 23.  03:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's fantastic. Now, that's one part of your story I was not familiar with and that's fantastic. At a young age, the entrepreneur comes out, the boss entrepreneur. So I can only imagine that that really helped give you a great foundation for running your own voice acting business. I feel like you're so multifaceted that you're not just a voice actor. Right, you're an empire, and a lot of that empire and I want to kind of get right into it, because I know there's so many people that are like how did you do it? How did you become viral? Because that is so elusive to many people out there. So talk to us about the foundations in your business right in your retail business that helped you in evolving and growing in voiceover and how you've come to really not just be a voiceover actor but like, literally, you are a content creator, an influencer.  04:41 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah, influencer that word? Yeah, I am though.  04:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but you are, I mean you probably are sick of hearing that, but in reality you really are. I mean you've got the reach out there to really influence a lot of people and affect them. And I know from people who've come to me I'm like have you seen that girl? I mean of course I know that girl, she's super talented. But yeah, talk to the experience of your retail years and how it helped you.  05:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I think that is what has helped me the most, to be completely transparent, being able to also have that background with coming from a family that owned businesses, like for generations, you know, and it was all very much like very squarely middle class businesses too. That's another thing is like it definitely wasn't something where, like I came from, a lot of wealth or anything.  05:26 Everybody has always been right smack dab in the middle, but the privilege that I had from that was knowing how to run a business and know how to go about using LegalZoom just to start an LLC, and like knowing how to find the information that I needed to do what I wanted to do, and that's a huge leg up, and I often tell people that do ask me about voice acting so what do I need to do? What kind of agents do I need to pursue, what accents, what microphone do I need? And I'm like, like, but honestly, get a business plan, like I was like learn business.  05:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. I love that.  05:59 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Yeah right.  05:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because if people don't know who you are and can't find you, they can't hire you right as a business.  06:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And get good at sales. That's another thing too is like that has always been, I think really a huge part that gets overlooked in what we do. Like we have people that take all these classes and they're so into the microphone. What microphone do I need? What microphone do you have? Because that's the missing piece of the puzzle. I need to get the microphone, and it really isn't. You know, like that's the easiest part is like getting your sound studio, your recording space, set up. That part's easy. You pay some buddy $100, $200. They do a sample for you, they get you all set up and then you're good to go.  06:34 How are you finding work? How are you finding jobs? And then are you staying consistent with this? I can't tell people enough that, like there are admittedly so many incredibly talented voice actors out there who send me their stuff and I'm like you're better than I am and they don't do anything with it because they don't know how to sell, they don't know how to run a business. You know, which is kind of an unfortunate part about being an artist and a creative is like we are so focused on that, which is wonderful, but the reality, the unfortunate reality is like.  07:03 We have to know how to turn that into a business and be able to boss ourselves, because we don't have somebody telling us what to do. So learn how to run a business. That's the biggest piece of advice to doing well in this industry is being able to manage yourself and learning how to sell your product, which is your voice.  07:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then let me ask you I assume that your content creation, even though sometimes it seems to have nothing to do with voice, although there's a lot of videos that you've done that talk about voiceover you've also done a lot of videos that don't necessarily talk about voiceover.  07:37 I mean, you did one video, actually, which I really loved, on synthetic voices, and I was like, where does this woman come from? Because, look, as you know, with the VO Boss podcast and I say this all the time literally for about a year I did extensive interviews with CEOs of AI companies and talking about synthetic voices and talking about ethical practices and all that stuff, and you came out with a video that was so in depth about your thoughts and your take on it, which I was just I don't know where this girl comes from I was just so, so impressed with that. I had to tell you that, as a fangirl and, doing the work that I've done and studying it, I thought that that was an amazing video. So your content is not just about the 10 voices of voiceover. So talk about how the type of content that you create, how does that help you to market?  08:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I love that. You asked that. So the way that that helps me to market is I'm talking about things that are relevant right now, and so much of how I figured that out is what made me, I think, successful in retail as well, which is very much like analytics driven. It's observational. I spend hours, you know, researching what's trending, what are people talking about, how are people moving, how are successful people who are doing what I'm doing? What are they doing? And then to juxtapose that, what is nobody doing either, you know, and how do I combine those things? So it's like I'm filling a need that's not being filled here, but am I doing it in a way that I have seen as proven successful? Like when I had my retail store it was 2009, so cut me some slack here but like I was obsessed with Mark Zuckerberg and what he was doing. You know, I'm like how is he figuring this out? How is he doing all this? Like how? And then Apple I was obsessed with Apple. Like how is Apple dominating? Like this, like, how is this so?  09:21 relevant dominating the market?  09:23 yeah, now we know what we know, um, you know, but that has continued in my career with voice acting, with content creation. You know how are people editing their videos, so it's not like copying, like verbatim what somebody's doing, but it's like not doing the millennial pause, for instance, like that's like such a huge faux pas when you're creating content. It's like setting up your camera and then, like you know, right then, like you know, like it's recording, and you leave this big old gap in the beginning to make sure you're recording. It's quick edits, it's speaking quickly and then the topics that you know are trending right now. So so much of I think what goes into that is being very aware of trends, and I say the same thing with voiceover.  10:02 It's something I have noticed twice now in my career is like the way that I market in content creation is very similar to like what I do in voiceover, in the sense of I'm very much obsessed with the trends and analytics and tracking all of that, and I have noticed that a couple of times in my career now in voiceover, where we've had these big shifts in style and people are often blindsided and I can usually tell those are the voice actors that have stopped watching commercials.  10:30 They don't take that time every day to go on iSpot TV or Hulu or YouTube or just wherever you find commercials and to watch them and to listen like, okay, who's getting cast what's popular right now? And we had that shift from the announcer read in the 90s and the 1000s to conversational, you know in the 10s. And now we're detached conversational, like with that Poppy commercial in the Super Bowl, and I'm seeing that with voice actors. They're like what does detached conversational mean? What is this? You know, and I'm like I hear it all the time, you know. So I think that, like making sure that you are staying just up to date with everything that's going on, and that means taking those classes, being involved in the community. That's going to ensure that you stay relevant.  11:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and also for those people that are doing non-broadcast work like e-learning and corporate narration, it's also important to see what is corporate narration. I have so many people that don't really understand what corporate narration is, and within the word corporate narration is the word corporate. Okay, companies are formed for a reason right To sell. So in corporate narration your focus is a sell. Now it's a longer style, it's a longer format than, let's say, a commercial. So your sell is very nuanced and guess you know what? It's not just information delivery, there's a sell.  11:43 You have to connect and you have to have a back and forth in order to connect with your listener and that becomes a conversation.  11:49 And so if I say I want it conversational, it doesn't mean I want it casual and I may not want it detached if we're talking about corporate, because in reality, for corporate, you're an authority, you know what you're talking about and you've got a long time to talk about it, so you may not be detached unless you're shooting for a specific market.  12:06 So I love the fact that you talk about market research, because anybody that goes and all of you bosses out there can go and do research on okay, what's trending in corporate narration? What's trending in e-learning. There's lots of externally facing e-learning modules out there as well, and the one thing that people say is that e-learning is going to get taken up by synthetic voices. But I say that most people that really want a connected teacher and student connection are not going to go that way, and that's the way it should have been all along. But we ended up reading our material like robots and that's kind of why the first thing people think is that, oh yeah, synthetic voices are going to take that over. So the people who thought that was okay, the buyers are going to continue to think that's okay and maybe have a synthetic voice. But those who want a person that can connect right, no matter what genre, they're going to hire that human.  12:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I hope so. That's my thoughts on it.  13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's my thoughts on it until, ultimately, our ears become attuned to maybe a different sound. But I love the market research and I love the fact that you kept the word conversational in there, because I don't want to disband the word conversational, because conversation indicates that you've got a back and forth Right. So let's talk about content. In terms of being a boss and creating content, what percentage of your day is thinking of content, creating content? What does it take to create great content? And is there a secret to having that content go viral? Of course, everybody wants to know the secret, that kind of thing.  13:32 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm so glad you asked that too, because everybody's like what's your secret to going viral? From my standpoint as somebody who does this, I don't think there is a secret beyond the secret being like you got to be in the right place at the right time.  13:45 So often which I don't think people like to hear, because that's very scary that there is a luck component to everything we do, and that doesn't mean it's only luck.  13:56 That means you have to be really good at what you do, you have to work really hard, and then you also have to get lucky.  14:00 And I think that's terrifying to people, as they're like so I can do everything right and it still won't happen, and I'm like, yeah, so much of it is the right place at the right time, and then it taking time to.  14:11 You know, like I've been doing this for years, yes, and then I am, within the last year or so, I'm at the point where it's like I pretty much just need to upload a video every day, couple days, few days, whatever it is. I pretty much just get emails at this point in my inbox that are like hey, we'd like to hire you for XYZ, and I'm very grateful to be in that position to where it's like that's pretty much all the marketing I really need to do, unless I'm after something really cool and specific. Like I'm like I want to do more, like big animation now, so I'm going to reach out to some people, but like now it's like I'm able to like make a living just posting that content and having people find me as a voice actor and hire me for these jobs, and it has taken, you know, literally decades to get to that point of being able to be your overnight success took decades right.  14:57 Yeah, so yes.  14:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And the viral thing was the luck component of it being in the right part at the right time. But I mean, you've been posting videos for gosh since I've been following you, which is years, and you had, I think, in the beginning and I always thought that this was such a tough shtick, is you were comedy. I mean, a lot of what you do has a comedy element to it. Do you think that that has something to do with, let's say, your success in terms of being viral or just having people love your videos?  15:26 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I do. I think that you have to choose one of two things when it comes to doing content creation, or both things. You have to entertain or you have to educate. Yes, I agree, and you know, if you're like me and you don't have a degree, you're not an expert in anything. You can't be like look, I have the piece of paper that says I'm smart. Yeah, you know, you just went right out of high school into the working world. You have to entertain, you know, or you have to establish yourself so much that you do become an expert in something. And again, that takes time just the amount of years you've been doing it. So I was like okay, I don't have the piece of paper saying I'm an authority to speak on something, so I guess I have to be entertaining. And I think that there's a couple ways you can do that, and one of the ways is through making people laugh. You know, and I think that's a big draw to something. It's like oh, I like this content because it makes me laugh.  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Everybody likes to laugh, so that's where that really came from was just not being educated enough to make educational content to me, since I've been following you with the comedy and then also with your experience in retail and having that, I feel like you took on the challenge and you loved it, and so now you've got this really cool mix of. I know maybe you don't want to be called an influencer, but in reality when now people are asking you to create content and sell right and then also use your voice right and you're on camera, so I feel like it just took every piece of you that you've maybe been passionate about or loved. Listen to me, I'm analyzing you right now and it just brought it together into this beautiful like. This is where you are today, unless, of course, it doesn't bring you joy, but I kind of feel like it might. I don't know. I feel like you like what you do. I do like what I do.  17:05 - Tawny Platis (Guest) I'm very, very lucky that I get to do this and I'm very lucky that I was born into a certain situation where it was truly the perfect storm, where it was like having that family that like could teach me how to run a business. Right, right and like you know, for better or for worse, being put into acting as an infant and doing that for 30 some odd years. I'm extremely lucky in that way that, like I really did have kind of all of that stuff that allowed this to happen.  17:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, it's like all the pieces together into like where you are today just seem to be like it's all the pieces that you're amazing at and that have just come together to work well for you. I always tell bosses that for me it's worked out to kind of follow where my joys and passions are, because the energy that I'm putting out really is what people can connect to. And that is where I think success comes, and it doesn't necessarily have to be success just financially. It can just be success in like I've created some really great content that has changed people's lives and you have certainly done that. And that, see, I'm going to get all choked up because I know what that's like.  18:09 Do you know what I mean? I'm not saying that I'm viral, but as a teacher, right, my mission and my joy is to make an impact right and to really help people or make them smile when they're down or, you know, inspire them. And you, I mean I mean you've done that and see, I get, I get. I'm like emotional. I get emotional because I just love that. I love when people can do that and they do do that and they realize it and that seems to be like their mission to really just help and inspire and entertain and make people smile. So Thank you for that.  18:41 - Intro (Announcement) Thank you for that.  18:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now I'm going to ask you do you miss any one part of it more than the other? Do you miss, like on-camera acting, or like, do you feel like in the future you might want to do, like, maybe more of that, or maybe you want to open a new store? Where are you going next? I mean, what's up next?  18:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) for you, it will never be retail again. I will live on the streets before I ever do retail again. Retail is so tough, oh gosh.  19:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about online retail? Though you don't have the inventory, you don't necessarily have the brick and mortar.  19:09 - Tawny Platis (Guest) That's the problem.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, I mean, you don't have the brick and mortar.  19:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Let's put that right, I always make this joke that I'm like you know, retail is unhealthy. When you go from retail to going to entertainment and go, people are so nice and like encouraging, encouraging, and this is so healthy for me, it's so healthy being in entertainment, you know, like that's really an indicator of how horrendous like working with like retail and customer service and with the public, like that that's so funny that you say that, because I remember when I got married, my in-laws owned a wedding, a bridal shop, and I was like you know, I think this could be a fun thing.  19:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're like oh God, no fun thing.  19:42 - Tawny Platis (Guest) They're like oh God, no, you don't want to go. No, you don't want to go. Oh, I've worked bridal.  19:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I've worked, bridal, you don't want to go bridal and God forbid, you don't want to go bridal retail.  19:46 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I'm like, oh okay, I've worked bridal and I've worked with parents and I don't care for either of those demographics. You know I get you there.  19:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you a question in terms coaching, voiceover coaching Tell us a little bit about that.  20:04 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Sure, yeah, I do business coaching for voiceover. That is like kind of my main thing. And then I do the surrounding stuff around that. So, like I do like voiceover 101, which is like very like step one through a million of like how to go, and specifically for that person, when it comes to like private coaching, I'm like, okay, what are your goals, what is it you want to do?  20:28 And then what's your background you know, and then we can talk about like how to get from point A to point B and then also like my opinion on kind of like what you should do, let's get you a voiceover evaluation, kind of get an idea of like how much coaching you're going to need here roughly. And then I also, you know, do the specialty coaching, where it's stuff that I particularly have mastery in. So I teach stuff like you know, the content creation that I've been doing for a lot of years, the business side of things been doing business for a lot of years and then the areas of voice acting where I predominantly work, which is a lot of corporate e-learning and then commercial. I don't think it's really ethical to teach voiceover stuff that you don't have like at least 10 years of experience in, so yeah audiobooks is not one of those things I teach just for that reason.  21:07 I'm like audiobooks. I'm still newer in that game. So, yeah, that is what I do coach and I have pre-recorded classes that are more generic. So it's more like this is all the ins and outs of the industry as of the beginning of 2024. So that's always a great option for people if they're looking for something that is like more. Let me just hear 130 plus minutes of like what the voiceover industry is and how to like kind of go about it. That's always something that is really really helpful, I have found, for people. But, yeah, I do that kind of coaching and typically with my private sessions, I try to only keep a few people that.  21:42 I work with at a time so I can really give them the time that I do have, because that's another important thing. If you're teaching voiceover, I think you should be working in voiceover and I am booked every day, agreed, agreed.  21:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know myself, I'm scheduled to the max because I do voiceover and I coach and I produce demos and I do a couple other things. I do this podcast, so it is every minute of the day is scheduled for me, which I assume is exactly the same for you. So, absolutely, that's wonderful. So, in terms of the future, where do you see yourself in the future?  22:12 - Tawny Platis (Guest) Honestly, I have no idea and I think that that is because I very much follow where my career is going at the time, where the leads are, and I'm very open to what that could be. I didn't think I'd be here Like I oftentimes tell people, particularly in with what got me into voice acting full-time. I never thought that was going to be where I ended up. I went into corporate and I was like this voice Because like I pitch my voice lower so I sound like an adult, but like I have a very high pitch, like I don't usually show people my natural voice, but like my natural voice is really up here, like when I talk to people, but I sound like a baby. So I'm like always like sound like an adult and like one of my teachers told me that in high school she was like you need to do something about your voice.  22:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, interesting, yeah, otherwise nobody's going to take you seriously.  22:58 - Tawny Platis (Guest) And I was thinking like, even with this being my pretend speaking voice. I still feel like it's pretty high. So it was like nobody's going to hire me for corporate. And then somebody found me for corporate and that's where I ended up and I do a lot of that kind of e-learning corporate stuff in San Diego that's so interesting.  23:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when you're completely relaxed, does your voice, do you let your voice go back up, or is it something you've just kind of muscle memory trained yourself to kind of just speak in a particular pitch?  23:25 - Tawny Platis (Guest) It's very muscle memory. The only time when that does come out is when I am really comfortable and relaxed. So, like you know, if my voice starts going up, like that, like that's how you know I'm like really comfy with you.  23:37 So if I start talking to you like this, that's how you know that we're really tight, so pretty much like my roommate, my best friends, like family, like they will hear that one, but even with them it usually like it'll take a few minutes or a drink to like a drink or two, and then it comes back. Yeah, I got you, I got you.  23:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow. Well, what would be your best tip for those bosses just starting out in the industry?  24:03 - Tawny Platis (Guest) My best tip business class, like from somebody who teaches business, like and general business, is great too. I think it applies, I think retail applies so heavily to voice acting funny enough or maybe not so funny, but I think like just that is such an oversight. You know so much of voiceover you can learn very quickly, and then the rest of it is practice, which there's no rushing, there's no rushing practice. You know, some of us have, I think, kind of more of an inclination similar to like learning piano, where like you have that friend.  24:32 that just it makes sense to them and it doesn't make sense to you and you have to practice more and that's just is what it is. But I don't feel like there's enough emphasis put on the business and the sales side of what we do. So, like that's, my biggest advice is like get those classes, do your research before you pay for anything like ask around, make sure you take your time so you find somebody who's reputable. I think we both know that's another big issue in our industry. So, yeah, I think that is probably the best piece of advice I could give to people who are starting out in this.  25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, that's great advice. So how can bosses get in touch with you if they would like to find out more and overwork with?  25:10 - Tawny Platis (Guest) you? Yeah, my website is tawnyvoicecom and I have all my contact information there. Depending on how you want to get in touch with me, there's a lot of different ways, awesome.  25:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, thank you so much. Oh my gosh, I could talk to you for another hour or so, and then maybe we'll be at that level where you're talking with your real voice to me. But anyways, thank you so much. We so appreciate the words of wisdom that you've given to us Bosses. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too, can network and connect like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Tani, you're the best. Thank you so much.  25:45 Thank you, Bosses have a great week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  25:50 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a bosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via ipdtl.   

Discover the keys to financial success in your voiceover business with our latest episode featuring the savvy money boss herself, Danielle Famble. Learn how to categorize your business expenses to maximize tax benefits and streamline your finances. From new equipment to that signature lipstick you love, learn how to turn everyday purchases into strategic business investments. Danielle shares her expert advice on the importance of collaborating with accountants and bookkeepers to ensure every dollar spent works for you, boosting both profitability and business accountability. Our conversation also includes actionable tips for managing your finances effectively, focusing on understanding profit and loss statements. Regularly reviewing your financial statements can prevent overspending and foster business growth, and we provide the know-how to keep your budget healthy. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at annganguzacom.  00:22 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, nne Ganguza.  00:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to bring back our resident money boss, Danielle Famble, to the show.  00:55 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Danielle- hey Anne.  00:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yay, welcome. How are you today?  00:58 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Hey, I'm great. How are?  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) you doing? I'm doing awesome. Well, danielle, I bought a new lipstick for the show, a new lipstick the new Red Boss lipstick. Those people that know me know that I'm all about my lipsticks and I talk about my lipstick brand and I use my lipstick and my colors for my branding, for my business. And I started to think, well, okay, can I expense this lipstick? Right, can I expense this lipstick? And so I chatted with my accountant to find out if it was possible to do that, and you know what it is. So I am so excited that I can now put lipstick. And we all know about these headphones. I was like, yeah, I know I could have expensed these headphones. It's a business expense, but guess what this lipstick is too.  01:45 And I think it's important for bosses to understand a little bit I think more about. We talked in our last episode about how important education was to the bosses. It's important to educate yourself on the basics of, let's say, bookkeeping for your business, like what sorts of things do you spend money on and how do you categorize them. I think that's an important aspect of bookkeeping. What are your thoughts on that, danielle?  02:09 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, that's really important. It's important to know how your business is working and bookkeeping is sort of the daily ledger of what money is coming in and going out for your business, knowing even the basics of bookkeeping and the basics of bookkeeping. In our last conversation, our last episode, we talked about the bookkeepers or people that you might have on your team, which they may be doing it, but you, as the VO boss, should understand even just the basics of bookkeeping for your business. So you know, when I spend money on this lipstick or these headphones or a new microphone, these are expenses that can be expense for my business. And what are the categories that you can expense things in your business. I recently bought a ticket to go to another one of the voiceover conferences and so I was thinking, okay, how am I expensing this? What account am I using for it? Making sure it's in my business account and it's going to be expense for continuing education. So I know the different categories and what you can expense in your business.  03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think it's so important because before I actually had an accountant and I was trying to do this all on my own and I'm like, well, all right, at least I learned that I needed to have right. We talked how important it was to have that separate business account.  03:20 But, then all of a sudden it was like what are my expenses, right? I just started throwing everything in and then it would always ask me what's the category? And I'm like, oh, I didn't think about what are the categories that are useful in your bookkeeping for voiceover? And I thought, wow, there's equipment, my internet connection. How do I classify that right? Subscriptions.  03:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) SourceConnect. Even I pay for extra storage with Google, with my Gmail. That kind of thing can be expensed. The people that you work with. So we talked about the bookkeepers and the CPAs paying them for their services.  03:55 Working with professionals, so professional fees there are so many things.  04:00 That's what's great about running a business is that you get to make money and then you can expense all of these different things and then you're taxed on that.  04:10 It's completely the opposite, for as a person, you get taxed on the money that you bring in, right, and then anything else is sort of just like deductions but like running a business is really amazing. That's why I love getting into the weeds about money and finances and bookkeeping, because once you learn how to sort of not play the game but kind of play the game, you can really make your business work for you much more efficiently. So learning about what it is that you're trying to do and making sure by being educated through a CPA or just finding you know education on your own, making sure that you can expense that appropriately for your business, sure, legally, in a tax efficient way, you can do a lot because we we use our bodies for our business. The chair that I'm sitting in in my studio is like an expensive ergonomic chair that normally I would not have ever purchased, but I'm in this chair for hours and so back support is really important, so that was part of the furniture of my office space.  05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And even medical that isn't covered by insurance, right? Medical expenses? Because is my Peloton? Is that an expense for my business?  05:19 And I love what you said about knowing these things right and understanding the basics of what can be expense.  05:26 What category am I putting it in? Because when I first started, I all of a sudden thought, oh God, there's categories. And then I didn't really categorize them properly, or I didn't quite know what categories to create, I mean. But in the end, when you look at your profit and loss statement, which is something that's so very basic to any accounting, right, I would look at the number and I'd say expenses, and it would be one big lump sum and I'd be like, well, what did I spend my money on? Right? And so that's where I think the importance of being able to categorize things really comes into play. And the fact is is that when you know about categories and things that you can expense for your business, it opens up the door of so many possibilities. It allowed me to confidently say, all right, I can do this, knowing that I'll be able to expense it for my business, and I think it helps me to actually go forth more confidently and also be more willing to try new avenues to grow my business.  06:21 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, the confidence that comes from the education is second to none. And I will say, the best place to get that level of education for your business, for the business that you, vo Boss, are running not my business or Ann's business, but your specific business is to go to the person who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business it makes no sense to expense everything and who has the knowledge about the numbers of your business. It makes no sense to expense everything and then at the end of the year it looks like you made no profit because, again, the idea of running a business is to make a profit. It's not just to break even. We want to make money. That's why we're here.  06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And, by the way, if you report to the government that you've lost money for over five years in a row, they're going to start getting suspicious. And then the audit will come and, by the way, I've been audited twice and.  07:09 I'm not ashamed of it because there's no foul play there or anything like that. I mean, literally, it's just when you run a business and you make money, they get a little bit interested in it and you can't have any red flags show up. And if you're going to be expensing everything and not showing a profit for a certain amount of time, then it might get a little bit suspicious. So you really need to work with someone, I think, that has an awareness of what's in the realm of reality, so that you're not necessarily taking advantage, even though I have my accountant. I literally purchased Rocket Money last year because I had so many subscriptions and I lost track of them, and that's like a big thing. Now is everything digital, is you're buying a subscription to it? I had subscriptions I forgot about right, and so I paid, of course, a subscription price to use rocket money. And then the funny thing about it is that if you do rocket money, they'll go and they'll find all your subscriptions, and then ultimately, you can even say at the end I'm like, oh gosh, do I really need to pay seven? I think it was $7 a month. Do I need to pay $7 a month to Rocket Money now Because they found all my subscriptions. They also offer to reduce the amount of money for your subscriptions because they'll go and negotiate with the companies to get a better rate.  08:22 A lot of times you can say you know what I mean, I just can't afford it. I'm getting ready to cancel. And then they'll renegotiate with you. But you can also renegotiate with Rocket Money and say I can't afford the $7. And they'll say, well, what do you feel is fair? And so I said, all right, I can pay $3 a month. And so guess what? I? That's fantastic. But I've already paid them for two years.  08:42 And all of a sudden I realized down at the bottom, I was thinking about canceling. And then they're like, hey, why don't you pay us what you think is fair? I said, all right, well, I can do this. Suffice to say, it's just one of those things that it helps you to really identify, like where your money is going. And so categories to me seem to be such a fundamental part of basic accounting and bookkeeping. And so what are some other like? If you look at a profit and loss statement, like I know some people, their eyes are maybe glazing over Profit and loss. It seems so formal. But what sorts of things are we going to be looking at when we see a profit and loss statement Like what's important for us to know as business owners?  09:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The main thing with a profit and loss statement is it really is sort of the name of it Profit, how much came in? How much money did the business make in this given period of time? Let's say it's a quarter or a month and I've been receiving monthly profit and loss statements. But how much money did you make during this given period of time and how much money went out during that same given period of time?  09:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Inflows, outflows.  09:45 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Inflows and outflows, how much came in, how much went out. I think it's really important to first think about how much came in, because you have a lot of control over that. That could be how much you're quoting for your clients, how many jobs that you've done, what your bookings are like. You have control over that aspect of it and you also have control over the loss side of it. How much is going out? So things like your subscriptions, which for me, I will say, when I really started like digging into my profit and loss statement, when I looked at subscription, I was like, well, what am I spending my money on? This is so much, it's crazy, crazy. Apple. Google Source.  10:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Connect Internet connection.  10:27 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Internet connections Internet connections, all the things. Quickbooks, yes, quickbooks.  10:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) My account.  10:32 - Intro (Announcement) All these different things.  10:34 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I mean it's just like I probably just named $100 just in that you know. Yeah, so it's knowing what is going out. Subscriptions for me is huge. Also, sometimes equipment but I don't buy a lot of equipment for my business that often Like, yeah, maybe I'll buy another microphone or an interface or an extra cable just in case For me.  10:57 And again, this is something that a VO boss can look at their business and say, what do I need for my business? And then you'll know, okay, this is the category and this is how it's going to affect my profit and loss. But normally for me anyway, my business with the profit and loss, with the monthly expenses, it's really those subscriptions. And I think I love what you said about Rocket Money, where you can take a look and see like, do I really need all these subscriptions? And then you can kind of tune what is going out on your profit and loss statement. Another aspect would be the people that you pay. So if you have an assistant or a bookkeeper or if you're working with a CPA or whatever else that's going on. And it really is kind of going back to personal finance. It's kind of like looking at your budget for the month how much is going out for your budget every month in your home and then how much is coming in. It's the same kind of thing.  11:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So profit and loss, your profit. And then, of course, what are some other, let's say, terms that you might see on a profit and loss statement, and I'm thinking like expenses right, obviously or inflows, outflows, assets I know I see that term a lot. What do you consider to be an asset in a voiceover, in a VO business?  12:11 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) So, assets are anything that you own, that your business owns. I consider assets to be things like my booth is an asset. I could sell my booth for a certain amount of money, and so that's an asset. My microphone is an asset. My interface is an asset, any sort of like business furniture, that kind of thing those are the assets.  12:33 A physical item, a physical item Like what the business owns. I'm a physical item, but my voice is the business, and so I am an asset of my business as well. I mean, you can't sell me.  12:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You can sell your voice.  12:47 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yes, I license the use of my voice. I sell my voice, but really, assets are anything that your business owns, but those are things that may or may not show up in your monthly profit and loss. Well, they might show up in your monthly profit and loss, but for me, when I'm looking at it, I'm looking at expenses.  13:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, when I'm looking at my overview, I'm seeing assets in there. So that was just a term that I thought oh God, assets. It just seems so foreign. You know what I mean Because I'm not a financial person, so to speak. I mean, but I have to be a financial person enough to understand what I'm looking at on any given month or any given report, a profit and loss statement Also, so I know. Another term that I've seen on my reports is liabilities. What would be my liability?  13:31 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Liabilities would also be like your debt, so what you owe For me? I put most of my expenses on my business's credit card, yes, and then I pay that off at the end of the month, so I'm seeing sort of a rotating liability.  13:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was going to say your credit card would be considered a liability then right, because that's something that you owe on.  13:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right, and for me that's, generally speaking, what it looks like in this business.  13:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that makes sense. And one note that I'll say about my I have a business credit card, which is I think it's one of the best. In addition to that separate business account, having a business credit card makes it so, so easy. I have a business credit card and a business debit card, and it makes it so easy to keep track because, again, everything is like electronic these days, and so I can feed it in as a stream into my QuickBooks, and so the only issue I have, though, is I have a business American Express Now my American Express.  14:28 In and of itself, that credit card categorizes things, but it doesn't necessarily categorize it as it comes into QuickBooks, so that's something that my bookkeeper or accountant will do to make sure that we know, okay, what was that $100 charge or what was that charge that just came through, that charge that just came through, and so I think that having a if you can keep it simple we talked about that before if you can keep it simple, having a business card that you use just for business expenses and that can include, like, maybe, paying stuff online or physically buying like a new mic, or going out and buying dinner for voiceover people during a meetup, right, that kind of thing. I will always use my business card so that that can just go automatically into my expenses.  15:12 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely. I do the same thing. My business credit card is through Chase and what's interesting is that Chase will do its best to categorize things, but it's not quite right all the time and then bring it into QuickBooks, because I have QuickBooks automatically linked to. Chase. It's not the same thing. So part of the basics of bookkeeping for me is making sure that I have done the homework of categorizing it correctly in Chase and in.  15:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) QuickBooks. That's a good point.  15:46 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Really, the person who's doing the QuickBooks, more or less, has in the past been my bookkeeper, but I'm starting to take more responsibility for it because my bookkeeper makes assumptions and will ask me about it. But I have the single point of truth because I was the one who swiped it. Sometimes I'm like what was that? What version of Danielle swiped that card?  16:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) for that thing I always be like what is this charge? I would say, bosses, it's so important to do. When you do have a business card, a business credit card or a business debit card, it's like really visit those transactions like frequently, because there'll be a lot of times when it'll be fresh and you'll be like I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? I have no idea who that vendor is Like, what is that charge for? And if you can immediately just kind of make that adjustment, it's going to be so helpful, rather than waiting until the end of the month and then saying, oh my gosh, I have no idea who this vendor is, and then maybe you find out you have that subscription you've paid for six months in a row and you didn't need it. So I think it's important to always be checking those expenses all the time and looking at them, because sometimes and I will say this as a girl who loves to shop and I love to shop online Amazon has ruined me.  16:51 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I'm just saying I'll tell you Same, same.  16:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I need it now. I need everything because Amazon seems to sell everything and I need it before 24 hours. This is a side note, but anytime I work through another vendor and it takes like five days to ship, I'm like really what? Yeah, you don't have that two-day shipping what is that what's going on? And then when Amazon delays the order, I'm like what? Like I get angry, but anyways, I digress.  17:14 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No, but you're making a really good point and I'll speak from personal experience, because this is something that I did not do for the longest and I'm currently in the moment going through three or four months ago of expenses because I didn't do it even though yeah, my bookkeeper will, but I'm sort of like after the fact, following up on what my bookkeeper did, because maybe it is or is not the correct yes thing to categorize.  17:38 It's something that can be done at the end of the week and it takes just a few moments, yeah, but if you put a little bit of time into it more frequently, it will save you hours and googles and headaches later.  17:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Calling. I agree I don't do it as much as I should either, and it's just one of those things that when you have to go back and figure out, oh my God, what was that expense? So I think it's important absolutely that you are looking at your cards and your debits and outgoing expenses and, of course, incoming as well. The other thing that I want to talk about is the fees. Right, Because the fees are not something that aren't automatically handled all the time by QuickBooks. When you have a I guess you call it a feed your bank feed right, it could be things coming in from PayPal. Well, PayPal takes a certain amount, a percentage, for transactions. Stripe takes a certain percentage, Everybody does. Quickbooks takes a certain percentage. You have to account for that in your bookkeeping and that is an important thing to categorize, because maybe you think you're making $100, but in reality you're making $98.53. And so that becomes an important thing.  18:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's incredibly important too, because, yes, you are not making the $100 to your point that you think you are, but that fee is a business expense, that fee is a cost of doing business, and so it does need to be accounted for appropriately. Now, does that mean that I am the person going through and marking every single fee?  19:03 No, that is why I have eventually outsourced that to a bookkeeper, but I do need to know the difference between how much should have come in and these fees, because the fees are an expense and those expenses do add up. So when you're looking at your profit and loss it's like whoa, what is this? You should understand that some of this is fees. Some of it is Danielle swiping the card for whatever thing, maybe a subscription, or maybe buying something for my business. But you should know the difference. And then that actually gives you the opportunity to decide and plan and budget for your business. Oh yeah, so if I can see what's going on with my expenses, maybe I've been spending a little bit too much on subscriptions. If I can cut that back, then I can use that additional money to take a class or to do a coaching or whatever. It gives you the knowledge and it arms you with like what you need to be financially responsible for running your business.  20:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And also it helps you to determine as well what to charge. Yeah, because sometimes I take fees into account. I do believe that fees are part of being a business. So I'm not that one person who says, can you pay me friends and family? Because if it's a business, I mean I'm willing to pay that. I mean, if I can get away with it, sure, not paying that fee, but in reality I'm a business.  20:24 So I've come to accept that there will be a fee and so if I want to make it accountable, right, I'm going to have to pay that fee. So I might. Then, instead of charging $100 for the job, I might charge $125. And then I've accounted for that fee in my head, but I haven't told anybody that I'm accounting. Necessarily, the company doesn't need to know that I'm charging $25 more because I want to account for that fee, or whatever I decide to do. I mean, that's one thing is being aware of those expenses as you are getting paid will help you to determine your fair compensation. And of course, we always like to say that you are worth it. Yes, you are, so price yourself appropriately.  21:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And I think being aware it means really looking at like the data of your business. That's how you become aware. Really looking at like the data of your business, that's how you become aware.  21:13 If you allow someone else to deal with it, then you're not really aware of what's going on with your business and you're missing out on some opportunities for maybe charging more or maybe how you can save money because you're spending a certain amount more than you should or more than you've budgeted. Staying on top of the basics of the bookkeeping really kind of keeps you aware of what's going on in your business. Again, I'll say I've not done a great job at this in the past and I'm learning from my negligence in the past is really that like. If I can keep my mind and my eyes on the day-to-day expenses and profit in my business, that actually makes me feel so much more confident and competent when I am requesting or making a quote for a certain amount of money. However, I'm running my business.  21:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's giving me so much more confidence because I know the day-to-day data of my business financially speaking, yeah it is absolutely important and, as I was alluding to before, being an online girl, like an online shopper, when I went off on that tangent of Amazon, sometimes it's like a little bit of an addiction. It's like here, click, buy, and it's so easy. And again, it's so easy to not look right, it's so easy to not look at your credit card expenses, or so easy to like kind of avoid it. And I'm that person. I'm willing to admit it. I mean, I've been in denial. I might have had a month or two where I was like way overspent, I shouldn't have purchased that.  22:36 But I think keeping your eyes on your finances it's kind of like you know, I've been on this health journey, right, and before I wouldn't look at the scale, I would not look, I did not weigh myself for a long, long time and now, all of a sudden, when you're watching right, it makes you become more conscious and it keeps you more on top of things.  22:51 So I do believe it's very important for you to really check those finances, check the bookkeeping, and it'll really, like you said, make you feel so much more confident and so much more competent right in running that business, because you will have a handle on. Okay, I know that I'm not really utilizing this subscription software anymore, so I can maybe give that up and then maybe invest in something else. So it really clears the path for you to grow. And I think that is one thing that is so important in our businesses that we should always be looking for opportunities to grow and financial anything should not be inhibiting us from doing that. If you can find ways to save, find ways to be aware of your finances and understand, oh, I can save something here, so that means I can invest more here, that's just going to give you a whole lot more confidence moving forward.  23:41 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love that. And also, if you're not sure and you have questions, the best place to ask those questions or the best person to ask those questions is to the person who knows your business intimately and also what the implications are. So that would be an accountant or that would be some sort of professional. It's not going to the Facebook groups and saying, hey, can I expense? Blah, blah, blah, because what I can expense in my business may be different than what you can expense in your business and my revenue and ability to expense certain things in my business can maybe withstand me spending a certain amount of money on a certain category.  24:16 So my answer might be not the right answer for your business. So I think it's really important to educate yourself. Find the perfect person to educate you, and it's someone who knows your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business. And if you don't work with an accountant already, find someone, have them look at the numbers of your business and then they can tell you specifically the answer to your specific unique business.  24:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And they can help you set up those categories which we say are so important, right and then? So I would say absolutely kind of, to recap right, your essentials of bookkeeping are to really keep an eye on a daily, weekly basis on inflows and outflows, understand your categories and if you don't know how to categorize something, you can certainly talk to your bookkeeper or someone knowledgeable that can help you with that. And is it an expense, yes or no? You can find out more that way and ask someone that this is what they do for a living I mean, I'm a big proponent of that and educate yourself on the basics of looking at a profit and loss statement, because I think that's going to be so important in helping you to really organize and make plans and strategize your goals for the future.  25:24 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Absolutely.  25:26 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, another wonderful Money Talks with Danielle today. Thanks so much for joining me again. I'm looking forward to our next podcast, Thanks and me too.  25:36 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Yeah, I love it. I love talking money.  25:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and a big shout out to IPDTL you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses, have an amazing week and make sure to check those books. We'll see you next week.  25:52 - Intro (Announcement) Bye, guys, bye join us next week for another edition of vo boss, with your host and ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Immerse yourself in the art of building and sustaining your business. In this episode, the BOSSES highlight the critical role of consistent auditioning and active marketing, emphasizing the necessity of maintaining strong connections with industry professionals. Overcome fears and harness your unique personality and energy to make genuine connections. Get inspired by our creative marketing techniques, including SMS and email outreach, and learn how to ensure you're always top of mind with potential collaborators. The path to success requires more than just setting up a business; it demands passion, dedication, and relentless hard work. Join us and discover strategies to elevate your voiceover business and rock your business like a true boss! 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey Boss, talent Anne Ganguzza here with a quick shout out to those who are a little freaked out about marketing VLBoss Blast is your secret weapon making your marketing manageable. Your voice deserves to be heard. Join us at vlbosscom and start your marketing campaign today.  00:22 - Testimonial (Announcement) I've just finished listening to Creative Brilliance with Improv, nne and Law, and all I can say is yes, ladies, improv is absolutely one of my favorite activities, and the life of the pre-life is real. Remembering that the run-in line, or your lead lead in line, does not only exist at the beginning of your read, but throughout, it's a critical activity. The running conversation that has to happen in your head truly makes a difference. So, ladies, thank you so much. I greatly appreciate it.  01:02 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  01:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host)  Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am here with my boss superpower business buddy, Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, how are you today?  01:38 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Annie, fabulous, how are you I?  01:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) missed you. I know it's been a while it has been too long Lau, and so I asked how are you? How's it going? I mean, what have you been working on?  01:46 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, let me just say this I haven't had a booking in a while.  01:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Really yes. Well, how often are you auditioning?  01:54 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm auditioning every day for like an hour, maybe even two, and I'm waiting for my agents and I have a few agents to send me things and they haven't.  02:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'm really upset. Well, I think maybe it's time for us to sit down and have a talk about getting real and really talking about what does it take to get work in this industry. I don't think. Maybe waiting for your agents and you know this as an agent is necessarily something that you want to be doing. I think let's talk about how we can be proactive as actors, because I hear that a lot. I mean, thank you for that little role play Lau.   02:31 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I was just about to say. I actually spoke with a coaching client this week who gave me that exact conversation and I wanted to role. Play that with you because it's common.  02:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I have so many students that talk to me and say are we ready to make that demo? I mean, why do I need more sessions? I'm like if you could do some more homework I give homework, I'm a homework girl and so they could be practicing scripts like an audition, like auditions, every single day. And yet at the end of a week they might've recorded one or two. And then they're like well, why am I not any closer to my demo? I'm like well, how much work have you put into it?  03:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, that's an excellent, excellent topic.  03:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What does it take? How much do we have to put into our careers? Yeah, get out what you put in.  03:19 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, listen, you're taking the words right out of my mouth. Like we're sisters, east West Coast sisters. I was just about to say you get out of it what you put into it.  03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It sounds so cliche, but I'm telling you, I'm saying that more than ever now, and the truth is.  03:35 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) The truth is we're even grinding more these days for less at times, because of the saturation of competition, so you just have to put that into your equation.  03:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I like that you brought that up, because now we've got evolving moving parts too, right. I mean, 10 years ago, the industry was a particular way. There were so many people in the industry, but I'll tell you what it's more saturated than ever. I'm not here to say that there isn't work, because there's a ton of work out there. However, my goodness, you have to realize that and I say this how many times have I said this? On how many podcasts Lau when we go to school and learn a skill, I mean we practice that skill for hours. We go to school for years, and so I don't understand why people that come into this industry think that they can just immediately go out and book work as if they've been doing it for years.  04:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you know, that's very interesting. You say that, annie, because I'm seeing especially an older set and some have been in it for three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans. Three, four, five, six years and feel like veterans and to some degree they are veterans say, okay, where's my payoff, okay, where's my semi-retirement, so to speak, like it should just be coming in like mailbox money and I don't have to do much, when the truth is, if you look at and I always go back to, like the biggies, the big box stores, they're running advertising, they're running sales, they're thinking up new campaigns. What aren't they doing right? And they've been around for 50, 60, 70 years. Think about that. It's because their competition is shifting, the generations are shifting and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say and they really have to keep up with those tides. They can't sit back and say, oh, but we're Target and we've been around now for 60 years.  05:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, you have some competition now, especially online, and so yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up because it affects everyone. It doesn't just affect new people coming into the industry. It affects veterans in the industry as well, because if they're not moving with the times and they're not paying attention and their eyeballs aren't open and they aren't thinking outside the box these days and that includes, maybe working with different coaches on different genres because every little bit, even though you might be a polished actor and you've been doing this for years I mean, I'm a lifelong learner I think you can always get something from more education, and so I really feel as though it's important for actors to continue their education and continue their quest for thinking outside the box. Days, voiceover industry because it is truly the whole digital online thing has really just disrupted disrupted what used to be, and we need to be prepared for that and we need to be able to roll with the changes, roll with the punches, so to speak that's a perfect word you're using.  06:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) That's like the new word disruptor be a disruptor. Well, I'm going to disrupt you right now and I'm going to say you do have to work harder. And that's not welcomed by a lot of people who are being brought up in this ideology of work-life balance. Well, I'm telling you, when you're building business and you're grinding in business, there is not the work-life balance that you would like to have. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You just cannot as much as we try to generationally. And I'm not saying don't take care of yourself or don't be good to yourself and be healthy, but I am saying you will have somewhat of an imbalanced life as you're building business and sustaining and keeping business, because you have to grind, you have to work really hard.  07:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You made a big distinction. I'm going to tag on to that and say that this is your own business and so, yeah, that only needing to put in the work for so many hours per day and not necessarily doing more than that, I don't know if that holds water when you are running your own business, because in reality, it's not like you're depending on someone to give you that paycheck every week or every two weeks. Now you're the one that's going out and doing everything and generating the leads, and so I mean absolutely I'm not saying you can't work nine to five if that's what you choose. However, if you choose that, understand that there's consequences for that, especially when you're first starting out. I mean, in order to get the work, you've got to generate the leads, and a lot of times I mean I think people have to know that they probably have to work harder than they thought to generate those leads.  08:11 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I think that's really it. Everybody's like well.  08:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not booking. I'm not booking. I have great demos and now I'm not booking and I'm like well, okay, let's just talk about the first thing. I asked you about auditioning. So, auditioning, how often are you auditioning? How many auditions? Now, I know if people aren't paid to plays, they might get penalized if they audition too much. However, there is a multitude of opportunities out there and I'm not saying you should spend eight hours a day auditioning. However, you've got to go out there and search the opportunities. If you're not auditioning, you should be marketing to people who can give you opportunities. Right?  08:42 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. And how many of these folks too, when you really dig a little deep and dive in there, annie, they're not keeping up with their current connections. Oftentimes they haven't flagged them, they're not in their calendar. Maybe they did an audition, a showcase, whatever, a year ago. They haven't been in touch with them. It's this ideology of I'm still waiting for things to come to me rather than proactively going out and getting them. And the building and sustaining of relationships, as you and I know, is really about reminding. It's like think of yourself.  09:18 Top of mind. Hey, I'm here. Yes, think of yourself in terms of advertising. Right, Advertisers have to show you something 10, 15, 20, 25 times in a day, maybe even more right? Well, we do too.  09:29 We have to remind people that we're here, remind them what we do, remind them that we have a relationship together. That's on me, that's on you, that's on the onus of us, right? And you and I are great examples. We've been in our businesses for 15, 16, 17 years. Now you and I are texting each other on a Saturday in the middle of the night, absolutely Now.  09:50 True, we're on different time zones, but we're still obsessively up in the middle of the night thinking, ooh, why don't we do this on Wednesday? And what's next? Exactly so isn't there a part of that like, if we take out the obsessive quality, which I understand, I'm obsessive To your audience, I am, and I admit it but isn't there a part of it that's so fun, that's so much joy, that's like you get a kick out of thinking up new ideas and executing them and going after six people that you haven't talked to in a few months, and I feel like it, authentically, is missing from a lot of people's like persona to do that. They feel like, oh, where's my job and where's my money and where's my credit? Versus where's my process, yeah, yeah.  10:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you brought that up.  10:40 You need to give a reminder to these people.  10:42 I mean, that's the whole, and I know that people are scared about spamming, but, honestly, if you take a look at the trends now in marketing and email marketing, especially on the retail level right, because I joined a lot of mailing lists and I always encourage people to join mailing lists for companies that they want to work for, so that you can understand how they market and then you can learn a lot from other companies marketing really Retail wisewise I get reminders, I get text messages and I'm trying to think outside the box about okay, how can I SMS text my clients, which is now becoming an option for a lot of the new marketing methods out there.  11:21 I mean, I know the Wix backend now enables you to SMS remind people or text them within your sales promotions, and that's kind of a cool thing that people can, of course, opt out of, but I'm doing a lot of my business via text. So for me, my brain is thinking how can I keep connected with my clients right Via text, so that it's not intrusive, but yet says, hey, I'm here, by the way, and kind of spark that top of mind where they're like. Oh yeah, ann would be great for this job.  11:53 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, yes, yes, I mean anything you can be thinking about, even one new methodology that you bring into your business. It doesn't have to be every single day, it doesn't have to be all day long, it's just one new concept. One new idea can change the whole face of what you do and really how you work. I oftentimes say to folks that we're coaching do you know, if you reach out to one new person or one new company a day, which for you and I is not a whole lot, but for someone else it might be a lot to take on? One, that's five a week in terms of work days, that's 20 in a month, yeah, 20. And then you say, but Lau, I can do three or four in a day. And I say, well, then do it, because then you're going to be 100 prospects richer by the end of the month. Absolutely.  12:42 And why aren't you doing that? And you know what the reason is. I'll tell you one of the firewalls reasoning behind why they're not doing it is, I'm afraid, Laura. Why are you afraid? I'm afraid. I don't know what to say to them. Yeah, yeah.  12:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I say, let's start off by just being human and making sure that you have done your research on them so that you can make a good introduction and that you're not going to be wasting their time by giving them like paragraphs and paragraphs of all about you, you, you. But really it's got to be about how you can help them.  13:15 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, and one of the things that I can tell you I live my whole life this way that books jobs is your energy and your tone and just like, ironically, how, as an actor, you would read and think about what's my tone for this commercial, this e-learning copy? What's my tone when I reach out to someone, when I talk to someone, and you get hired for your energy and you get fired for your energy or lack thereof.  13:45 And you have to rely sometimes on your personality and say you know that books a lot of jobs if you're likable.  13:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I be completely honest and say that your personality, when it comes out in your read right, that's what makes you unique, that's your point of view right, and that's what connects us as humans to each other. And so people always say well, how do I sound, how does my voice sound? Am I cut out for this industry? I'm like no, it's not really about that. It's about being able to bring yourself to the party, and how many times have we heard that said over and over?  14:19 again and I just want to say it differently, so that maybe people like, all of a sudden, I want that light bulb to go off because honestly, it's that innate, like non-touchable thing that when we meet somebody and we say, god, I like her, like when I met you, I was like man, I like that girl, I felt the same way about you going?  14:37 on and thus began this relationship, and so I can tell people when I do consults all the time I've got a few coming up after this but they'll say do I sound like I can make it in this industry? I'm like, but in reality it's all about bringing yourself to that read, that special uniqueness that is you, and if you can develop the skills to allow yourself and the permission to allow yourself to do that, that's what's going to connect with the listener at the other end and that's what's going to make you successful, right? Is that connection with?  15:05 the listener and, of course, all the other stuff should just come by the wayside, right? It's kind of like we're storytellers. Well, how do I tell that story when the script is written in this way? Well, you have to create that story right, Create those opportunities right. And how are you going to lock in those opportunities? By being your human, wonderful, beautiful, awesome self and just connecting.  15:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) So wait a second, annie. Are you hitting on something deeper now? Are you really talking, maybe, about the fact that there is a true and honest lack of self-confidence, which may even be deeper than that, a lack of self-esteem and a lack of self-value, because it really does challenge us to say if we're reaching out to someone, there's a reason and we have to share who we are and what we do with that person.  15:54 If you don't know who you are and what you do, then there's a real lack on your end that you have to go and dive deep. You have to go coach, get therapy, go meditate, whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do whatever you need to do to find that the end user, that audience, they do not care, they're not there for that. They're not there to build you up, they're not there to give you confidence, they're not there.  16:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They're there for you to help them and they're not there seeking you out necessarily, right? So, again, the work that needs to be done for success in this industry, especially today, you have to work your butt off. I'm just saying, even for us, that we've been in this business for how many years, we know how hard we have to work, and now we're working even harder, right?  16:36 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) But, annie why is that a bad thing? Why is that being given a bad name? Why is that something that is sort of shoved under the rug, like, oh, we don't want to do that. We want to work less hours in the week, we want to take more vacations, and I'm thinking, well, it's all well and good, but don't you want to build a business? Sure, and to build a business from the ground up and sustain it, especially during hard times, economic times, whatever. During war, you got to work really hard. That's the old school work ethic you and I have.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, and I'm going to say that, okay, do you have to work that hard 24-7? Well, I mean, I do just because it's an ethic, but honestly, like and we're totally obsessed.  17:17 Yeah but besides that, but in reality look, you can be super talented, you can get a great campaign right, but every person that I know that has really made it in this industry that has been uber successful. You can never count on that client being there tomorrow. And so, even though you might have a great gig and a great contract and it's been ongoing and you're making good money, I don't think any of these professionals out here have ever stopped looking or cultivating or continually growing. That's what makes them successful. So you can't just necessarily just say, well, I've got my client, I did great this year and so therefore I can kind of rest a little bit and maybe not have to work so hard. I mean, once in a while, of course, you need to take your time off, but in reality you're constantly looking for that next client, constantly, and that doesn't just happen in an hour a day.  18:12 Now, for those people that are working right now and you know again, I always tell people don't give up your day job. Yet, you know, until you find out that this is something you're truly passionate about and that you truly want to pursue, because the time required to generate those leads, the time required to audition, the time required to do all the things that is necessary to build and grow your business, not just exist and have a business. Okay, I set up my business. I have my demos, here I am. That's not enough. That is this tiny little tip of the iceberg, do you know what?  18:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) that reminds me of, annie, when we had brick and mortars pre-COVID and we did most of our work pre-COVID in brick and mortar, that was like, okay, I set up my shop, I set up my physical location, I had my coffee maker there, we had our computers there, we had okay, we paid the heat, we had toilet paper. It sounds ridiculous, but you have to think of all of that. Yeah, yeah, you have a brick and mortar, all right. How come I'm not successful? Yeah, mm-hmm. Oh, because I haven't started the work. Yeah, I haven't started. The work was just preliminary. Yeah, the, the house, there's a ton preliminary. But to actually build a house, that's a whole other set of things, right? So if you're doing your due diligence by training and getting your demos and setting up your booth, you get big applause from me, you get big kudos from me because you beat out half the competition already. Yeah, absolutely. But don't think that that's the work. That's not the work of owning a business, that's just the brick and mortar, if you will.  19:40 Yeah, absolutely the setup of the business, and the setup is always changing and upgrading too. Yeah, now you've got to work the business.  19:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work it. You've got the business.  19:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now you've got to work the business.  19:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And you and I are workers Like we're worker bees, we like working, we like the validation I mean. Look, my mother in real life is 85 years old.  20:01 - Intro (Announcement) Guys, don't tell her that I told you that she's amazing.  20:06 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) She's a licensed family therapist and she works still full-time, 85 years old. She says I will never not work. It's my identity. I want to be helping people, I want to be giving to the world, I want to be making money, I want to be this and that there's this sense of like kicking back and going what's coming to me? I'm 85, now what's coming? No, no. Taking on new clients and seeing how she can help them solve their problems, which are more complicated these days by the way, right, that was a key thing that you said was that she wants to help people.  20:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So it's not that she doesn't deserve a rest or she doesn't deserve to kick back at this point in her life, but it brings her joy. She doesn't want to. Yeah, exactly, and a lot of people feel that way.  20:51 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, a lot of people want to be in the world. They want to be a part of the world that spoke in the wheel, so to speak, but be a part of a large community, which we are, a very large global community but really be doing our own unique part of that, our own unique feel to that. And you and I I mean I take on pro bono projects, I take on projects that I'm giving back. Why? Because I want to. It fills my soul, it fills my spirit. I love working with maybe younger people coming up in the industry or people who don't have a budget that really need help. I like that. Listen, if huge civil rights attorneys can do that, I can do that too. Yeah, absolutely.  21:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right.  21:34 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm not saying to work for free. I'm just saying the point is what's your process? Why are you doing it? You know, take a step back and say if I want to have it easy and I don't want to work too hard, then ask yourself a more important question why am I doing this?  21:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Then get a job and work for someone else.  21:52 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get a paycheck every week, right.  21:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Don't expect to come into voiceover land and have that same kind of mindset where that's going to work.  22:02 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, go be a middle manager at Chipotle and you're all set, you got the good food, you got the salary, you got the benefits. It's a whole different mindset about things, very much so you know I mean my dad, who is an entrepreneur. He always said to me you know, there are two people in the world, one is the employee and the employee mindset, and one is the employer.  22:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and they're two different mindsets. Absolutely, absolutely. We are an employer mindset. Yes, we have to be an employer mindset. So, look, this doesn't mean right for the bosses out there. Well, how much time right? Well, I mean, for us I work a 16-hour day, but am I in the booth for 16 hours? No, I am not.  22:44 I am marketing, I am creating content for marketing, I am reaching out to clients and, of course, I'm doing stuff in my studio as well. I'm auditioning. I'm auditioning for my agents, I'm auditioning for rosters. I mean hours, and so I know how hard it is and I will speak to working a full-time job and then just seeing if voiceover is. For me, that's the hard part about doing it part-time. I almost thought that doing voiceover part-time was harder than doing it full-time. I mean, the risk is greater when you quit your job and go full-time into voiceover, especially financially, if you don't have that cushion and I don't recommend that you do that if you don't have a financial cushion, do not quit your day job, but if you're working full-time and you're doing voiceover, you've got to work so hard.  23:28 Oh my gosh, so hard You've got your nine to five or whatever that might be during the day, and then every spare moment of the day has to be working on voiceover. And that's the hardest, especially when you're starting because you're practicing, you're getting better at acting. Hopefully you're coaching with somebody, you're working towards a demo or you've gotten a demo. So now, if you've gotten your demos, then when you get home from your day job, you've got to be marketing right and you've got to find your leads. You've got to create content. You've got to create content. You've got so many things to do in those hours and you've got a family to take care of, so it is excruciatingly tiring when you are doing this with a full-time job. I get that, guys. But again, if this is something that you want to pursue and this is the life that you are looking for, that's just what you've got to do to make it work. I mean to be quite honest. I mean otherwise.  24:19 I have so many people that kind of half-heartedly put their time in Well, they'll do the coaching, they'll get the demo and they're working full time. But then they're like well, but I haven't gotten a job yet and I'm out of pay to play. I haven't gotten a job yet. Well, you've got to audition your tush off. You've got to market your tush off at this point, and that means hours a day. That doesn't necessarily mean like five minutes a day, but if you can do something every day, I would say do something voiceover related every single day. That, to me, is something that says you are dedicated to making this work, to making this be successful. And it's tougher than ever these days. You know you're fighting a lot of people in the industry.  25:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) You're fighting. And I would say too, as you said earlier, annie, do the homework, do the research, don't come in cold. Talk to people, see what they do in the career. We used to call those internships or apprenticeships. Well, you kind of have to do your own.  25:14 You don't want to try to make a living on a scaffold 50 flights up. If you're scared of heights, yeah Right. You have to know what the occupational hazards are. You have to understand what the hours put in, what the dangers are, what financial issues you could run into. You really have to be smart up front. Rather than saying, well, why aren't I making money? That to me is a very sort of novice-y green question. To ask if you've done some of the homework and talk to working professionals who have been very successful. They will all tell you. Even the most successful people who are making livings doing animation or they're a series regular on a TV show. They'll say, listen, I know when I book something I better save that money, I better invest that money, I better do whatever, because I may not work for a year.  26:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I may not get another decent booking for a year, and I have to know that I have to like plan for that.  26:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, bosses, go out there and get the work. Go out there and do it, spend the time, put in the hours, and I think you're going to see results. I mean, it's as simple as that Put in the work, you're going to see results. It's probably a lot more than you think, yep. The more you put in, the more you'll get out. Absolutely there, it is All right. There, it is Great. Big shout out. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys, bosses, have an amazing week and go out there and get it. Go out there and get it. We love you. All right, bye, bye.  26:46 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.  27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Five, six, 7, 8. I'm trying to go faster. I'm trying to go 5, 6, 7, 8. I know I think it's waiting for me. That's probably what it is. I am waiting for you. There's a delay, guys. There's a delay, alright, wait.   

How do you determine your worth as a voice actor, especially when you're just starting out? Join Anne and Tom as we unravel the complexities of setting rates in the voiceover industry. We challenge the misconception that newbies should work for less and emphasize the need for a solid base studio session fee. From understanding SAG-AFTRA and Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) rate guides to navigating the nuances of broadcast and non-broadcast work, we provide practical insights that empower you to establish your value right from the get-go. Efficiency and quality are your best allies in commanding higher rates and securing repeat clients. Learn the essential strategies for managing your career, from cultivating new leads and staying updated on market trends to understanding client churn. We'll share actionable advice on how to keep your pipeline full and stay ahead of the curve in this ever-evolving industry. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzzacom.  00:26 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next project. Find out more at anganguzacom. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. The boss, a VO boss.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and I am here on the Real Boss series with my co-host, Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you?  00:57 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hello Anne, how are you doing?  00:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Real boss. Yeah, hey, Tom, as a real boss. How's your year going? By the way, it's gone by so fast already.  01:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) First quarter gone.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, first quarter and tax season is already coming.  01:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, I mean, we filed, I filed and I got paid already. So yeah, oh, very, very nice.  01:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, speaking of numbers, you're a numbers guy, so how's your year going?  01:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's funny because I just did my first quarter analytics financially and I think I'm like literally like $300 ahead of first quarter 2023.  01:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Congrats.  01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can't complain about that.  01:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Being ahead is always a plus, always a plus and myself as well, and I'm ecstatic that I got paid already from the government, so that's good. I'm going to reinvest that in my business. But I love talking real numbers, like real money. So I thought it would be good to talk about real money, because so many times I have students who just get into this industry and they get that first job where somebody's interested in their voice and then they panic and they say, oh my God, they've come back to me and they want to know what I'll charge for this job and I thought we should actually. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about those numbers. How do people come up with those numbers?  02:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. It's funny because, like we could just say, well, just go look at the SAG-AFTRA contract if you're union, or go look at the Global Voice Acting website if you're non-union, and this will be the world's shortest podcast episode.  02:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's it. Gvaa rate guide and SegAftra Boom and you're done.  02:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) But, as you well know, it's a lot more complicated than that. But I want to do a little bit of myth busting real quick. A lot of voice actors coming into the industry think hierarchical. They think vertical, as in. Since they're just entering the voiceover industry, they should get paid the lowest and the people who have been in here the longest should get paid the highest. And that is not necessarily true. I mean, if there's one thing I've learned in the 25 plus years I've been doing this is that the last gig I got isn't always the worst paying gig I've got, and then the next gig I've got isn't always the best paying gig that I've got.  03:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It fluctuates, it just does right. I mean, before the rate guides. Well, I think there was always SAG-AFTRA, but SAG-AFTRA mostly concentrated on things that were national and broadcast right, and so national, regional, local, anything that was broadcast. So what was a girl to do back in the early years when I was there trying to figure out what do I charge? And literally it set myself into a panic and I always, tom, had to pretty much just kind of wing it and guess what? I think that that's even still true today.  03:44 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, now we have guides that we can look at as benchmarks, but in reality every job is absolutely different, especially when you're talking non-broadcast rates, so broadcast rates, radio, tv, cable, internet, streaming right, all the front-facing stuff, where there's going to be a session fee, which is how much you get paid to record the voiceover audio files, and then the usage fee, which is how much you get paid for giving license, because you're literally licensing your voice to the voice seekers for them to use your audio files in a certain period of time and in a certain area.  04:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  04:31 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. So that's broadcast in the broadest sense, for lack of a better term, and just by giving your listeners that basic explanation. That's what sets up this avalanche of other questions. It's like how big of a market, how many listeners, how long are you getting paid for? It's, in simplest terms, the more listeners or viewers, the more you get paid, and the longer that they're going to air this spot, on whatever medium they decide, the more you get paid. So the question is where do you start with that? So actually, that leads me to a question. Anne, do you have like a turning?  05:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) on the lights fee. Do you have a base studio session fee? Yes, I absolutely do. For me to step into the studio, I have a certain fee and a lot of my work is non-broadcast. So if I am doing any work that's broadcast. Typically that's either handled by my agent, right? Who's negotiating that for me? Which is why it's awesome to have agents, because they handle that and they're always fighting for the most part, if you've got a good agent for your best interests.  05:35 If it's not an agent fighting for the rates, then I have to go to a rate guide to start somewhere and figure out what that is. But for non-broadcast, absolutely. I have a rate for stepping into my studio and that is my studio session fee, which.  05:51 I try to equate everything non-broadcast to the same equivalent on the broadcast side, because these days, with synthetic voices right, I want to make sure that nobody's going to be using my voice for a purpose that it wasn't intended for, and so I will actually put and I'm probably getting ahead of myself on my non-broadcast, I will put an actual length of time, whereas previously this was not something we talked about in perpetuity in another episode. But I want to absolutely address that. For non-broadcast, typically it was you gave somebody a rate for usage of that file and it was forever. And now, with synthetic voices and the fear of getting our voices stolen or used for purposes other than intended, I now put in for non-broadcast. I put in a length of time that they can use that for as a safeguard.  06:42 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right and for certain things I mean there's explainers and corporate and e-learning and stuff like that.  06:47 Most of that stuff isn't evergreen anyway, because, like an explainer video, for example, the company's branding may change, the name of the company may change, the product, the service, the widget may change, so they're going to need a new explainer video.  07:03 If they have just like one explainer video which is parked on their website and their social media channels just saying we are this company, this is what we do, in two, three years, maybe five at most, they're going to need a new video and they may go to you and they may go to somebody else. But when you see non-broadcast in perpetuity, you want to be smart about it. You want to give it some form of shelf life, and that's a big part of this conversation, anne is how do you communicate this? How do you educate your clients? By explaining, like look, in a few years you're going to need a new one of these anyway, because I've noticed that for like non-broadcast, most of them want it in perpetuity, not because they want to synthesize your voice or because they want to hose you financially, it's just because they just don't want to be bothered. They just want to do this and it's done, and it's there and now they can go focus on other things.  07:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, they say that it's theirs.  07:49 - Tom Dheere (Host) And they say it's theirs. For non-broadcast genres there's a whole bunch of different ways to charge. Sometimes you charge by the finished minute. If it's an audio book, you charge by the finished hour. If it's long form e-learning modules, you could get paid by the word.  08:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, I mean, those are the big ones there used to be per page but I don't remember the last time I got paid per page and you know what. I'll be completely honest, tom, I don't remember the last time I quoted an e-learning module on a per word basis, because most of the companies or most of the people that I'm working with I'm not on a roster that is paying on a per word basis or working with an instructional e-learning company, that usually is on a per word basis.  08:31 Whenever I get e-learning clients, I always price them on a per hour, per finished hour basis and I get paid the same for e-learning as I do for corporate pretty much.  08:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I mean they're both informational, non-broadcast, so in the broadest brushstrokes they're pretty much the same genre-wise, with the exception that e-learning is usually used to train students and new employees and corporate is for internal communications, like an HR video or a memo, or here's how you pick your employee benefits, and stuff like that.  09:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or even a corporate narration video. That's what I meant. Corporate training and e-learning to me is the same. Do you know what I mean? Corporate training and academic e-learning rates are the same to me, except most educational institutions can't afford what a company can Right.  09:15 It's harder for them to get the money, but I think one thing that I want to emphatically tell the bosses out there that are just beginning for non-broadcast is that really every job is unique and we don't always have a rate guide to go to, and it's up to you as a business person to understand what would be an acceptable market rate for that and price it accordingly to that and also know your worth because, again, like you had mentioned before, you think that just because you're newer, you should charge less, and that is probably not the. That is not the way I would be thinking about it at all as a new person into the industry. Because you're being paid for your voice right, you're being paid for your voice. You can get just as much as I can or Tom can for that voice. It is your business.  10:11 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. Here's the thing about that is that a lot of my students immediately devalue themselves. Yeah, and you shouldn't do that to yourself, because, think about it on the other side of the equation is that if you're a voice seeker, do you care how long the voice actors have been doing voiceover Really? I mean in the abstract. Well, of course we would like an experienced narrator, but when it comes down to the audition, within two, three seconds, either they like you or you don't. It doesn't matter how long you've been doing voiceover.  10:43 Now there is obviously a correlation between the ability to tell a story effectively and how long you've been doing this. But ultimately, if you've got quality training from Anne and a quality demo and that demo is submitted and you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field. Regardless of how long you've been trained by Anne to audition effectively for projects, I'd say 90, 95% of the time, it's a level playing field regardless of how long you've been in the industry, and I agree with you there, completely agree with you.  11:10 So you take that data point and then you extrapolate that. Well, if that's the case, then that means everybody should get paid the same who's auditioning for that, because if one of my students auditions for an e-learning project and I audition for an e-learning project, if I book it, I shouldn't necessarily get paid more than they should.  11:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree with that, completely agree with that. Again, they're paying for the voice. They're not necessarily paying for the experience. However, in dealing with the client, your level of experience might have a part in it because after you get the job, in order to maybe keep the job or have the person keep coming back, that's where your experience and customer service comes into play and that's where I feel that you can command. And again, you can command just as much if you can give them a good experience.  12:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. This is what I tell my students is that your talent will book you the first gig with a client. Your project management skills will book you the next gig with the same client, because if me and a student are auditioning for the same gig and they book it. Great, they should get the same that I get, but then they better deliver the goods, communicate the retake policy, understand how to use their DAW, understand how to edit and deliver the audio files, being able to take direction if it's a live setting those are skills that.  12:31 Yes, there is a correlation between your experience level and the ability to execute good project management, but if you work with Anne or if you work with myself, part of our jobs is to teach you that and how to be able to be professional and communicate effectively and do all those things, because it's not just getting the first gig, it's getting the next gig and the next gig and the next gig without auditioning.  12:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly. And it's funny because it reminds me of a conversation I had in my Voices in Podcasting Clubhouse the other day with Jodi Krangel and Cheryl Holling, where we got into this discussion about acting right, because a lot of coaches these days will say it's more important now more than ever to have your acting skills so that you can separate yourself from the synthetic voices. And Jodi said you know, I don't know if I'm completely convinced about that, because in reality it also has to do with your customer service. And I'm like, yeah, well, you've got to get the gig first right, which is your auditioning talents and your performance talents and your acting talents are going to get you the gig.  13:34 Then what's going to help you keep it is going to be that customer service that business aspect that you just mentioned, in order to keep them coming back and then commanding that good rate, moving forward.  13:48 - Tom Dheere (Host) And that's when it comes into so for the audition, to book the audition it's about your talent and your storytelling ability. After that, it's about your ability to manage the project effectively. Because, also, if you can demonstrate that you can deliver the goods and do it quickly and do it right, then, yeah, you're in a better position to command higher rates and slash. Or you're in a position to just get more bookings without having to audition for this end client that you got that initial gig with and other end clients at this production company or recording studio or ad agency or marketing firm or political production company or explainer production company has they're like yeah, you work with Ann. Ann delivered the goods on this series of explainer videos. She can do that for you and your series of explainer videos too. So it's not just about getting as much as you can for the project in question, it's about delivering the goods so you can get paid over and over and, over and over again.  14:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And aren't those the best jobs?  14:46 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, we all want regular clients, like everybody, everybody, in every part of the country.  14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You don't have to audition for them, that just takes out a complete amount of steps. And it's funny because I think for me and for my business right. I'm always telling people you always have to cultivate new leads, because if you've been in the business for a long time, undoubtedly you'll probably have repeat clients. Right, tom? You must have lots and lots and lots of repeat clients Many, many, many, many, many repeat clients and me too, and I'm grateful for them.  15:10 but I always have to be cultivating the new clients as well, and that means I have to really continually assess and understand rates and what I should charge and understand my worth in the current market, in the current market.  15:24 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, my friend Adam Werner, audiobook narrator, fellow FAFCon attendee. He taught me about client churn, which is every quarter. I look at all of the voiceover gigs that I booked and all the clients that I worked with and the genres that I booked and how I got the gig whether it was through my representation, whether it was through an online casting site and whether it was through my self-marketing strategies and I look to see how many new clients did I gain and I keep a very close eye on how many new clients I'm getting, because if I'm getting a regular stream of new clients, that means my marketing strategies are working well, yes, yes and your marketing strategies.  16:03 Is your self-marketing strategy? Cold calls, cold emails, indirect marketing, social media, blogging, whatever. But also, am I just auditioning better through my representation? Am I auditioning better through my online casting sites? Because clients are just going to naturally go away, they're going to retire, they're going to go out of business, they're going to change their business model.  16:23 They're going to hire their nephew who wants to do musical theater, to do their phone greets. And now you're out. Ai is going to replace and already has replaced some of us voice actors. For certain clients, that's just going to naturally happen. So you always want to keep the till full.  16:39 Yep, yep, absolutely absolutely want to keep the till full, yep, yep, absolutely, absolutely, and making sure that you understand what you're worth in today's current landscape on a per word, per finished minute, per finished hour, per studio hour. You always want to keep an eye on that, yeah. So how do you keep an eye on that, anne? How do you keep an eye on current rates? What are your go-tos? What are your habits?  16:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, my current rates. I actually make sure that I check the rate guides frequently because they're continually being updated by people more than me out in the industry. Back in the day I was a core contributor to the GVAA rate guide and I think you were too Tom like e-learning and corporate and telephony and medical and those were the rates that I helped with on that rate guide. I make sure that I'm continually assessing those rate guides, but I'm also assessing the market. I mean, I work in the market and so I do a lot of research on the client and I try to understand, like, where else could they be going for potential business or another voice, and how can I remain competitive with that voice? And so how do I keep myself current? It's continual research, really, and assessment with the rate guide and some of it, honestly, is just pulling it out of the air. That is really what happens Sometimes. It's nowhere to be found and you just have to use your best judgment. Always use your negotiation 101 tactics on asking what is the budget?  18:06 That's like the most important first question I think you can ask a client.  18:10 - Tom Dheere (Host) Do they have a?  18:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) budget, and if they have a budget, can you work within that?  18:13 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, my go-to's is just looking at my agent casting notices and looking at my online casting site casting notices yes, yes, yes.  18:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Market assessment notices. And looking at my online casting site casting notices Market assessment.  18:23 - Tom Dheere (Host) Market assessment and what Ann does and what I do. You should be doing both of those. You should be doing both of those because when you get a casting notice from your representation, it's been pre-negotiated. They've already gone through the rigmarole of negotiating with that particular client, so what you get is most likely the finished product of what the actual rate is going to be for that project. So that will let you know, because, along with that casting notice, in addition to the rates, is the specs, the session fee, the usage fee, the market, the exclusivity and conflicts and the rate of usage, how long it's going to be used for. So you can use that to greatly inform your broadcast rate sheets. And then for non-broadcast, looking at the online casting sites and just noticing trends in e-learning versus corporate, versus explainer, versus telephony, versus medical versus voice of.  19:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) God. And in order to do that, in order to do that, do you need to be a member, tom? I know, because some of them will post job rates without you necessarily actually being a paid member if you're a free member, but I believe you've got to be a paid member to get that information these days.  19:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) For places like Voice 123, I believe you won't have access to the casting notices unless you're on the tier, because the only way you'll get them is if they make it to your inbox, and the only way it makes it to your inbox is having a subscription tier, unless you have a free site, a free membership and some casting notices come in and some say here's the jobs you missed and here's the money.  19:53 Right, voicescom, I think you can run searches but you can't audition unless you're a paid member. But you know what? There's other places to go. I mean you could look at Backstage and Badalgo and Casting Call Club, even Twitter. Now Casting Call Club and Twitter, there tend to be lower no-pay jobs, which is why a lot of voice actors early in their journey go to Casting Call Club because it gives themselves a great opportunity to kind of develop their audition skills, their rate negotiation skills, build up their portfolio, resume, genre awareness and confidence, all of which are extremely, extremely important things. But if you're able to hit the ground running and you have more resources at your disposal which I've got, a pay-to-play site like a voice123 or voicescom you can get a much better idea of what current trends in the rate structure is for voiceover gigs.  20:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you know what's so interesting. What I'm hearing from you, interestingly enough, is not just understanding the rate guide and then understanding the principles of negotiation and what you're worth, but also your audition techniques, right. Auditioning techniques, it's a first impression, right. And so if you're looking to command a particular rate for a job, even if you don't get a job that you've auditioned for right, you're submitting auditions into your agent and you're just, you're nailing time after time after time, or you're nailing the auditions in the pay to play, right, you're getting consistent in people's minds and that is building your value.  21:16 And it's interesting because when people come to me and they say I want to get a corporate demo or I to get a medical demo or I want an e-learning demo, I've, over the years, evolved into the type of coach that is really coaching how to do the audition to get the gig first, because, honestly, we all can do that. Read, that's a really pleasant, nice read. You know that's reading the words, but it takes acting skills to really tell the story. And so I really work on building up students' storytelling skills and acting skills and that, I feel, is going to command you the higher rate.  21:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yes, I've got some numbers for you.  21:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know you love your numbers, I do, I do, I do. Tell me Okay.  21:56 - Tom Dheere (Host) In 2019, I auditioned roughly 400 times. Okay 1% of my voiceover revenue came from representation. 18% came from casting sites. I wasn't on any paid casting sites back then. Fast forward to all of 2019, 5 years later, 2023, I did 1,854 auditions. My online casting site revenue percentage grew from 18% to 50%.  22:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow, that's incredible.  22:26 - Tom Dheere (Host) My representation revenue percentage went from 1% to 12%. Wow, that's incredible, and my overall revenue increased by 20%.  22:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And now, what would you say that was due to then?  22:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Auditioning Auditioning right and auditioning skills.  22:43 Getting my reps in on specifically Voice123. And you can hear, if you haven't watched our casting site VO Boss Video, go check that out. You'll hear me talk about Voice123 in severe detail, about my voiceover journey, the fact that I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning. I was auditioning so much on pay-to-play sites I was just getting better at auditioning, which meant when I was getting those agent and manager-driven auditions, I was just getting better at auditioning there too and as a result, I booked more gigs and I booked better gigs.  23:12 So, if nothing else, don't put all of these things into separate buckets or silos, pass judgment on them and ignore them, or covet one and ignore the other. It's through data and money I've shown that the online casting site portal and the representation portal are clearly linked. There was clearly a synergistic relationship between the quality and quantity of my auditions on Voice123 and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers. I love that you're backing it up with the numbers and quantity of my auditions on voice one, two, three and the quality and quantity of my audition efforts through my agents and managers.  23:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that you're backing it up with the numbers, because I mean, it's so easy right To point the finger and say, oh well, pay to play suck, or there's too many people on the pay to plays, or the pay to plays are bottom feeders. And so, therefore, I didn't get to the audition on time, which you know that plays a certain part in it.  24:03 But also it could be like my agent keeps sending me the same auditions to everyone. So it's easy to point the finger and lay blame. But I'll tell you what a lot of times, if you can increase your audition skills, you can increase your net worth, you can increase the rate that you can ask for. It's kind of like this what came first, the chicken or the egg, the audition or the value right that you can charge your potential client? I mean, honestly, it just goes hand in hand. If you are a better actor, if you are a better auditioner and that's going to require an investment, typically in working hard with maybe a performance coach that can give you good feedback. Because if you're like I don't know what's happening, the pay-to-plays suck these days. I'm not getting any work or my agent is not getting me work, and I hate it when people blame their agents for not getting them work.  24:50 It really is up to you to put in that investment into your business so that you can audition better and then command those better rates.  24:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Absolutely so. Creating a rate sheet from scratch or using the SAG-AFTRA guidelines or using the Global Voice Acting Academy rate guides is an important thing to understand what is a voice actor's worth in relation to the genres and the broadcast versus non-broadcast market. But I'll be honest. I mean, yes, I have had rate sheets that I built from scratch and talked to other voice actors over the past 15, 20 years, but these days I don't really look at it anymore. I just kind of just know, through repetition, what I'm worth, what the genre is worth, what the gig is worth based on the broadcast or non-broadcast usage. Is it going to just be in a museum exhibition or is it going to be on a corporate website that has 10,000 employees?  25:40 After a while you just kind of get the hang of it, but that does not help our bosses who are early in their voiceover journey. So bookmark that SAG-AFTRA rates, Bookmark that GVAA. Have your own little Google Doc. Keep track of the agent auditions that you get if you have representation. Keep track of the online casting site audition rates. Just start to note them. Just make a little simple spreadsheet Genre rate terms.  26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I did that right in the beginning of my career. It was like audition. Where did the audition come from? Did I book the gig? What was the price? Literally? That can really help establish for you rates to charge and just make sure that you're keeping up with those rates and really doing some market research. If you're new to the industry, those rate guides use them as a guide only. That doesn't mean that they're the be-all, end-all of what you as a business owner should charge. But I would say, rather than going to the lower number because you want the client right, make sure that that number is well within what you are worth. And just because you started just recently doesn't mean that you can't command the same rate that Tom and I can.  26:47 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and here's the thing about that is that the lowest bid doesn't always book the gig. It does not always. It does not always win.  26:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I get nervous when I buy things that are too cheap. Then I'm like oh, I don't know about the quality of this Right, because you know there's going to be.  27:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, there may be a lack of quality. I mean, think of it this way Like my wife and I were just in the big Macy's flagship store a couple weeks ago to see the Macy's flower show, and we walked through the departments and you see, like on the top floor of Macy's is the luggage and you luggage and you've got five different suitcase sets. The first few are worth $100 and then the last one is worth $400. What are the ones people are going to look at first? They're going to be like why is this one $400? What is it that gives it more value than the other ones?  27:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I'll tell you something too Sometimes I can't believe I'm going to admit this like on the air top as a female when I go shopping clothes shopping right and they have huge, huge sales. When there's like bins of clothing that are slashed 70%, sometimes that's almost too overwhelming and exhausting. And now that the prices have been slashed so much, I'm like I don't know people have been handling these clothes. I don't know. Are they not in fashion anymore? I question everything right.  27:58 Oh my gosh, they're so low, yeah, why are there so many of those in the bin of the same like style? Is that because it's not in style? And then I question all the other aspects of it. The quality, is it in style? And so, literally I will. To save my brain the overwhelm of low prices, I will go to the stuff that is priced higher and it's usually presented much nicer right and it's less overwhelming. Think about your voiceover right. Think about your voice and presenting it in a way that you are worthy, right. You are worthy of commanding that price. You are worthy of the elegant luxury brand of that voice, right and people paying that money. There is such an attraction to that for a lot of buyers it's like a psychological aspect.  28:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, look, look, vo bosses. If you have gotten your training, if you have gotten your demos, if you've built your website, if you have your home recording studio set up and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you have a rate sheet built, you're worth it. Yeah, absolutely, you are worth it. You are worth it and you are worthy, yes, absolutely Good stuff.  29:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We could go on and on and on about this, but I find, tom, when I talk to you, like our podcasts run a little bit long because we have so much to talk about. You're so easy to talk to.  29:14 - Tom Dheere (Host) Aw, you too.  29:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you, Tom, for the wonderful, wonderful, sensible business head that you have. I absolutely love, love, love our sessions together and, bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, that allows me to connect with Tom and talk numbers, because I love to do that, and all sorts of other wonderful business things that we should know as voice actors. You can find out more at IPDTLcom, tom. Thanks again so much. I just love our sessions together and I can't wait till our next one.  29:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me back.  29:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bosses, have a great week. We'll see you next week. Bye.  29:52 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at V? O bosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business Like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Get ready for an epic conversation with the one and only Jon Bailey, the voice behind Honest Trailers and one of the voices of Optimus Prime. Jon shares his unique journey into voice acting, from his unexpected start and overcoming the early hurdles of being labeled "just a YouTube voice" to establishing himself as a renowned actor in the industry. We discuss the importance of performance background and how platforms like YouTube have become integral to shaping modern voice-acting careers. Authenticity and resilience are the cornerstones of lasting success in the entertainment industry. This episode illuminates how maintaining a genuine persona can inspire others, with practical advice on consistency, branding, and leveraging mentorship. 00:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:24 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I am so excited to have a very special guest in the studio with me today Epic voice guy of the four-time Emmy-nominated Honest Trailers, the sixth voice of Optimus Prime and over 20 other Transformer characters and voices for Marvel, disney and many, many more and the credit list just goes on and on, but this is a finite amount of time that I have with you, so I am going to let you talk. Welcome, Jon Bailey.  01:17 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. It's good to see you again after 100 years. I said 500.  01:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years it is. I said 500. So, yes, we go way back. At least we were just discussing it like 16 years, gosh, when you first got into voiceover and I have watched you over the years become this incredible success. Bosses I mean, this is the VO Boss podcast. We are talking very boss-like. We are talking very boss-like strategies and hard work. Jon, I am so, so happy for all of your successes and so proud of you, my gosh, because I know in the beginning it was a struggle for you. So maybe for the bosses I don't know anybody that probably doesn't know who you are, but in case they don't, tell us a little bit about how you got into the world of voice acting, it's good to be back.  02:06 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you for having me back on. It's been a hot second. Yeah, it was all kind of accidental. I had background in performance from school, all the way from, I would say, kindergarten, through college and public speaking and improv and things like that.  02:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) In fact, I think that's how we met is through Rebecca's love. That, oh, yes, that's right. Oh my gosh, I feel like that had something to do with it.  02:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) It's been so long ago I don't 100% remember, but I feel like that may have been how we connected. So that was back in my R&D days, which was two years before I even did anything professionally and, like you had said, before, we started the show. Seriously, I would go in, for my first manager kind of found me on the Internet by accident because I'd started YouTube out of boredom.  02:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) really, Little did you know?  02:49 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah well, the main reason why I did it was because I saw other people taking old cartoons and dubbing over them and making funny things out of them. I was like, well, that's what I wanted to do. If they can do it, then why can't I do that? And I had this small following just based off the comedy stuff that I put together involving Transformers and the movie trailer voice, the inner world guy and my first manager, family from that video. And then I ran into the problem with him, like he pitched me to Sony because I would feel like we've heard your voice before and something. I'm like, oh, cool. I was like, well, I did this little tiny thing online and caught on his trailers and they, oh, because you're not a real voice actor, you're a YouTube voice actor. And I was like there's a difference.  03:30 And it's so funny how much just changed in a decade, because now that's considered a major platform.  03:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That is what is so impressive, Jon. You just forged through, because I remember that they're like oh yeah, honest Australia's. You're not a real voice. I remember that and I remember your struggles and your frustration with that, and you have like a trillion followers. I mean literally.  03:50 - Jon Bailey (Host) Not that I'm inflating.  03:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you got what?  03:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) over a million, over a million, yeah, combined across all platforms, which is impressive. For voice actors, yeah, who haven't been the main character in some major popular anime or cartoon or whatever game? I kind of coined the phrase recently where it's like I'm the guy everyone's heard but no one's heard of, right.  04:10 Because I'm so in everything like my manager, my agents, whoever, or sometimes just directly from the clients. They just throw everything at me and I'm just willing to give everything a shot. I know that can't hurt to try, so as long as it doesn't violate my personal faith. There's some things I'm just like no. And other things I'm like well, I'll check it out, but I can't make any promises and some stuff. I'm just like you know, don't bother me with this stuff because I'm not going to work on it.  04:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, so you've worked on such a wide range of projects. I mean, what would you say, say I mean outside of? I know in the beginnings were really like getting started and getting your feet wet and getting known. Talk about some of the biggest challenges that you've had as a voice actor, because, gosh, we all run into what we think are challenges. But I feel like just with the amount of exposure and the amount that you've grown over the years, I mean your challenges I feel must equal almost sometimes your follower size.  05:04 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think my challenge is there's been a lot of them, but I'd say if I had to narrow it down for an interview with you, I would say that you really need to have some organization to your personal life, because if you don't have the availability for this job, you're wasting your time because you really can't do anything else.  05:24 You have to find a way to work around their schedule instead of your own and be available for them, and that often leads to that thing between voice actors where it's like why did they get the job instead of me? Well, it might've been because they had a home studio and you didn't, and they had immediate availability and you didn't. Or they might've decided to move to a town like Los Angeles rather than the middle of nowhere, because sometimes it doesn't matter how great you are for the job, it really doesn't. For some reason, some people out here are just too scared of change and they would rather have a real human person that can show up at their studio at a specific time and day and record the thing. And unfortunately, you have to sacrifice a lot. I mean, you have to kind of give up your freedom, so to speak, and I'm thankful that technology has changed, where there's mobile options now, where I don't feel like I'm stuck in this particular physical space 24-7.  06:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I was just going to ask how much do you actually go in studio now?  06:21 - Jon Bailey (Host) Still probably more than me, I would say it's more than it used to be only because I'm booking more, but I would still say, you know, 90% of the time it's still here. In fact a good percentage is. Just to look at the bookings for this coming week, I have four bookings the first week of June and half of those are in studio and half of those are home studio. So it sometimes varies, but I would say the majority of the time I still feel like the majority of it is here. But certain projects they really want to work with just the studios that they've already recording all their other actors at, because they want the quality to sound the same. It makes sense to me, but at the same time people's home technology has gotten so good they don't really need it anymore.  06:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) COVID kind of proved that. Yeah, exactly Now. Did you have to do any upgrade? I'm sure you probably had a great studio already, but did you have to do any upgrading to your studio?  07:08 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean it's still the same booth. It always was this one I've had, for I would say I've had this one for at least five or six years. Todd Haberkorn's misfortune was my fortune. He got this booth for his place, which is not too far from here, and he moved here from West Hollywood, which it fit perfectly fine in his old place, but it just happened to be a few inches too big for his new place. So he had to sell it for a third of what they normally run and I'm like well, I can make payments.  07:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And he was cool with that.  07:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) He just wanted to get rid of it because it takes up so much space and it's so heavy and so bulky and big. It's bigger than I need. It's an 8x4 and I don't recommend anything bigger than 4x4. But the truth is you really don't have to have a booth that looks like yours, no offense, but it looks beautiful on camera. That's great.  07:52 That's one of the main reasons why I had it, because if I want to make content and look like a pro, it needs to look like a pro. And no matter how great the audio quality is, no matter how many studios or clients that you've worked for, when it looks like the inside of a closet you don't look like a very good pro and I guarantee people out there it sounds better in that ugly closet than it does in that fancy studio of yours. Even the guys from VoiceOver Body Shop they recommend you don't have to have a whisper room, you can just have that freaking closet. But I figure that half my career is content creation. Freaking closet, but I figure that half my career is content creation. Half my career has been voiceover, so it might as well upgrade that because the opportunity presented itself for such a low price.  08:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I agree with you that image, I mean, it's how you present yourself really.  08:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) They don't teach you about how much branding is important.  08:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Back in our day, when we first started.  08:40 - Jon Bailey (Host) Branding was not part of the education. It was all about the voiceover, the career. They never really talked about, like your social media presence or having a color scheme. Well, you were developing that. We were still figuring it out.  08:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We were, and I remember like first time physically meeting you at a VO Peeps meetup. We were talking about how important it is to start branding and things were just getting popular on the internet. They were starting gosh. We're talking back in our day when we walked to school 10 miles. I know it's funny, that was only 10 years ago I know, I know, and it's incredible how it's grown.  09:12 And you know, you mentioned content creation, which, wow, I mean, like I said, you were ahead of your time back in the day on YouTube, and so I concur, yeah, you were ahead of your time, and I like to think of myself as being a little ahead of my time because I was broadcasting from my living room back when people weren't broadcasting on the Internet.  09:31 My VOP's made up and, that being said, I feel like we're kind of pioneers together, forging our own little paths in our business, which is why I'm so excited that we're talking today and you mentioned content creation. So let's talk a little bit about content creation and what it takes for you on a day-to-day basis, creating the content that you do, because, gosh, I've been following you for the longest time. And then I have another question that I'm going to talk about in a minute, because you have transformed. Not only have you voiced transformers, but you have transformed yourself. But let's talk a little bit about content creation and how important it is for bosses today and people wanting to build a successful business. What does content creation mean for that business?  10:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, the one thing I learned and I have always been a trial and error person People always ask me every freaking day. I would have said you need to find reliable, trustworthy coaches that are affordable and just get coaching, instead of trying to do this the cheap, free way and learning it all the hard way through trial and error and just free research on the internet.  10:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It can be done.  10:39 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm proof that it could be done, because I didn't get any coaching until I'd already been at this job for like almost a decade and I just didn't see the point because I'd been. Unfortunately, a few not so great coaches can ruin it for everybody else. I'm like I don't hear anything here that I couldn't find on the internet.  10:55 I personally have a theory that when we got started, people were gatekeeping the information. I think people were only telling they were so insecure in their own careers they were afraid if they shared this information, this is going to create more competition, which is going to screw me out of work, and I don't think that this is the kind of career where you should have to worry about that because it's so freaking huge. There is enough room for everybody in this job.  11:19 And if you're great at the job and you do a good job and you take the time to grow your brand and create content, do all the things that you need to do in order to be able to show what you're capable of, you'll be able to get work. There's no doubt in my mind. I've always been kind of ahead of my time, but I've been that guy that like I'll do it and until some huge voice actor does the same exact thing after they've seen me do it, then all of a sudden it becomes popular. I was one of the first voice actors to stream my own video games on Twitch. It didn't really go anywhere and I was like you know what and I told a few other voice actors about it. I said this is a great idea. Now all of them are actually making a separate income from doing the same thing I was doing, but nobody even showed up for me.  11:57 I was also one of the few people out there like I should create content about what I do, or just do career centered content. That's entertaining slash, maybe a little informational way to show what I do, just to promote myself. Because the thing, like I started off, the thing that I learned by making content, was that your representation. They will never represent you as well as you can represent yourself. And when I found out that my agents only just get the auditions and sometimes they'll have some relationship with clients and they'll pitch you to somebody they're never going to know you until you get out there and show them who you are. So take whatever thing that you do and just formulate your content around what you're best at, whether you're best at creating creatures or you're best at doing impressions. Whatever Impressions won't get you anywhere in professional voice of a career.  12:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) but they're fantastic for content.  12:48 - Jon Bailey (Host) That's not the advice I got 12 years ago. I was told you will never get anywhere in this business doing impressions. That's not true, because you can grow a brand and all of a sudden you're so popular Clients can't do anything except they can't ignore you once you have millions of followers and you're like, oh man, we should hire this guy because people will buy our brand or at least consider our product or service or whatever, just because this guy has so many people.  13:08 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. I love that.  13:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) So growing your brand and making content is a way for you to represent yourself and not just sit back and sit on your hands and wait for your agents to do it, because they're not. Your representation's primary job is to make you look good and let people know what you're booking even if they didn't book it for you, and get you auditions and opportunities. They're not out there promoting you specifically, they're not putting out visual audio demos of you doing stuff and working on things, and everything is content Everything.  13:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now question for you because you create so much content and now that you have so many followers, I would imagine yes, of course. Now you're getting sponsorships. You're getting people who want you to talk about their things, because you do have a big follower base. Do your agents have control over the type of content? How careful do you have to be now creating your content?  14:00 - Jon Bailey (Host) I think that agents representatives have to be careful depending on their talent. I think if their talent is smart and they're wise, obviously they're going to hit me up and say you can't post that, you need to take that and sometimes I just have to kind of self regulate.  14:15 I'll give you a perfect example of that. There was a project that was coming out and I thought it would be funny to make a prank video because it's a project that I have been known to work for in the past. So for an April Fool's joke, I created a fake thing for this thing and posted it on the Internet and all of a sudden it reached a point because my content has gotten so big and my career has grown so much that people were using that as a potential news leak of some nondisclosure stuff. I'm like oh crap, I've reached the point where I can't just be regular Joe fan that makes funny stuff for the internet. And then they're like oh, that's so.  14:54 I had to be way more thoughtful and because of, like I said, I learned everything the hard way because of some NDA scares and because of some reprimands from some agents in the past. Over the last decade and a half I've learned like what is okay and what's not, and I'm just always very careful because it does help. I've been working for Hasbro for eight years. Eight years I've been doing voices for the same company, for the same franchise, and only within the last couple of years? Did they even know I was working for them?  15:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wow.  15:15 - Jon Bailey (Host) Because when you have a massive corporation they drop down all those little jobs down to other companies that are lower on the pole. So they can just like look, we're just going to license this brand out to you. You tell us what you're going to make, you do the entire production, We'll approve, and then you know it's got our official stamp on it. They have no idea who's working for them. So when I get out there and I start making content, I'm really starting to push something like Transformers, for example, because I remember that.  15:39 I do remember that, so they'll send me products or they'll send me news, information or images, digital assets whatever to repost because it makes sense for me, and the more that I do that, the more that people are associating me with my favorite brands that I already work for or it's making other companies go wow, he does a really good job for them. As long as there's no conflict between clients, maybe we should get them to check out our stuff or whatever. So, for example, for Transformers specifically, I have probably four different companies that send me stuff that I don't have to pay for, that I can make content with, or I can resell or give away. There's a lot of different ideas that you can do. You just have to think outside the box.  16:37 It's all about thinking outside the box and doing the best you can to represent yourself in a way where your reps don't have to worry about what you make because they're afraid that you're like oh my gosh, you said you're not a chub on that, I mean, I even had to think about that whenever it came to anything marvel related, because when I started booking sound likes for some of these actors for marvel, I'm like does that mean I can't make comedy, marvel content or whatever, because that might be a spoiler for something that I don't even know about because I'm not working on a project. But I feel like anything I'm doing to help it boils down to this. This is the very, very important part. It boils down to only doing positive things about the clients, brands, products, whatever that you want to work with or that you're a fan of, whatever Because let's just say you like.  17:18 Snickers. If you like Snickers, you don't want to do negative Snickers things. You want to show yourself eating a Snickers, show yourself talking about Snickers, making funny things based on Snickers, and eventually you get enough followers and enough people are like this is really funny, this is really entertaining. This makes me like Snickers. This makes me want to support you by getting whatever. Eventually, snickers is like hey, you know what, we'll send you some free Snickers, send you money in a brand deal. The important part is to do it positive. Don't do anything negative about a brand that you like.  17:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I was just going to ask you. There's the other side of the coin, where any publicity is good publicity, so sometimes negative.  17:52 - Jon Bailey (Host) True, but I feel like you're playing it safe and smart if you just stick to only things that, for example, if something comes out, that's not that great, but it's for a company that I like. That's the truth. But it's also about growing your brand, about being seen by enough people to be considered like, oh, and it's also about showing all the things that you do, whether it's your skill set, whether it's your sense of humor, whether it's just your perfect, whatever it is that you're doing it helps them understand like this person has all these positive traits that we like. We would like to continue to work with them, or we'd like to start working with them.  18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I like that. I like that a lot.  18:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) The whole Mint Mobile ad with Ryan Reynolds. It did not come from my voiceover stuff, it came directly as a result of social media stuff. I was one of the first people out there doing an impression of Ryan Reynolds, because I've seen people out there doing impressions for decades. They started doing it on YouTube when it was first brand new a thing. People were trying to do it as some kind of bit where it's like here's this tiny little cartoon picture in the corner and here's one second of me doing this character. Like I could do 500 cartoon characters in three minutes. And I was like, okay, I see what you're doing, but it's also terrible. It doesn't mean you're a good voice actor, it just means you've made clever content that a lot of people watched.  19:09 But wouldn't it be better, instead of doing those impressions, to just take your skill set and promote yourself in a different way and do something nobody else is doing? So I started looking. It's like man, my gosh. All these voices are old. These characters are ridiculously ancient. It's always Mickey Mouse and Kermit the Frog and stuff that anybody pretty much could do, because the guys who came up with those characters they didn't want to stray so far from their own voices. They were just doing whatever. So I was like you know what? I should just look at who's popular right now, who's the number one top dogs right now? So I started looking at the A-listers. I'm like nobody's doing Chris Hemsworth Nobody's doing Ryan Reynolds.  19:43 Nobody's doing.  19:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) All of a sudden.  19:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) Now everybody's copying that pattern. It's just one of the first out there and because I did such a good job with Ryan Reynolds' voice and I made positive, funny, entertaining content, it eventually got the attention of Maximum Effort who reached out to my agents, said we really like Jon, we have this funny idea. We don't really know what we're going to do yet, but we'd them on commercial. There's a good paycheck for it involved, also good social media. Because he's smart enough to know, because Maximum Effort is very good about this. They think like I do. They're like there's a potential for this stuff. It's all in the internet and how you present this More people to see that than you can by throwing this up on a television commercial. So, yeah, it just kind of became that formulation of is it positive? Does it show off my skill set well, does it make me look like we should work with this guy and want to work with this brand? Would this brand be like? This is a unique or entertainer insert thing here of a way to promote our product. We'd like to work with this guy more or continue to work with him. So, yeah, it's going to be, became the whole mindset and the main goal was always not to make money from.  20:49 I make hardly any money from social media, just next to nothing, because the primary goal was not to make money. If I wanted to monetize, there's a very particular set of rules that you have to follow in order to make money from social media. My goal was to get more eyeballs on it, get more followers, because at some point you want to be indispensable, you want to be invaluable to people and like well with me. Not only do you get 16 years of professional experience, all these credits, all these working with all these great companies or clients or studios or whatever. You also get somebody with over a million followers on social media who will promote your project and make content about it for no extra money, just because that's what he already does, because that also helps. It's a cycle. It helps me get bigger, which helps me book more jobs which helps me get bigger, which helps me get more jobs.  21:32 It all works together and it does kind of feel like you're working half your time for free, but that's why you should do things you enjoy. Make your content something that you enjoy, based on things that you like. Just build it around your skillset around your talent.  21:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, I love that and I love the whole positive spin that you put on things, as well as authenticity. To take a moment to talk about authenticity you have been very authentic, having known you for so many years now, about things like in your personal life, like your transformation right In your family, and so let's talk a little bit about what authenticity means as well in terms of I feel as though it's not a put on to get more followers. I just really identify with you through your stories. I think you and I have a similar story about, let's say, our body change, our health. We've transformed a little bit in that way, and I've seen a lot of posts from you about that and also stuff about personal struggles that you've had. Let's talk for a moment about the authenticity and how important that is.  22:30 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, I think you should keep the majority of your personal life offline. Nobody needs to know all your personal business. But I do feel like, when people have been supporting you for so long, they feel an attachment to your story and to you and they want to root for you. They want to be in your corner, they want to see you succeed. Some of them even live vicariously through you. But a lot of people are just looking for inspiration. They're looking for somebody else to give them justification for whatever it is that they're going to decide to do, and when they see somebody like me give up, it makes them want to give up. When they see somebody like me keeping on and pushing on and just never quitting, it makes them not want to give up.  23:09 I inspire other people and, as a person of faith, that's kind of half the reason why I do what I do, because I feel like it's better to be genuine and be yourself, because if you have to mask, eventually it'll all fall apart. You won't be able to keep that up for forever because it's not really you. Jim Carrey's talked about this a lot because he used to be that guy. He thought he had to be like this all the time. That was a persona that he created. It was just a different version of himself where he literally was not Jim Carrey, he was whatever character he was portraying.  23:38 That was Jim Carrey. And when he finally dropped the mask and started being himself, he felt better. And yeah, he's not a super energetic I mean, he's still funny, but he's not that crazy, energetic, over-the-top, ridiculous guy all the time. He's actually just a normal human being who happens to have a very clever mind and sense of humor, et cetera, et cetera. And he talks all the time about how the word depressed has the words deep rest in it and how our brains can't keep up with that fake facade.  24:05 And I know exactly what he's talking about, because my personal life is not rainbows and skittles all the time. I don't go into great detail about it, but people do know. They know that I'm on the spectrum. They know that my son is very much on the spectrum and he's had a lot of issues. They know that my home life has not always been a hundred percent fun. And they also know that financial struggles and all I go through the same thing everybody else does.  24:29 There's a really great interview with Larry King, with the actor who played Abed in Community, which is one of my favorite TV shows and I did promos for it, which is how I became a fan and he was being interviewed.  24:40 Larry King's like give me a luxury that you can't live without. He's like cup of coffee. He's like no, no, no, a luxury. He's like a warm pair of socks. He's like no, a luxury, you know. Like a private place, like I work on duck tails, larry. It's like people don't get that. We're struggling just as much as I don't think, until the strike came forward. This feels like the first time ever that a strike has actually finally got people to realize we don't make a lot of money, we're not sitting around floating in a pool of money and everything is fancy and expensive.  25:09 I literally live from paycheck to paycheck. I don't know how I get from point A to point B except through faith and hard work. That's all there is to it. And you have to find things that work with your schedule in order to stay in this career, because you can't just go get a grocery store job or whatever and be able to make it. You'll only be able to work when you're free. These clients don't care when you're free, they only care when they're free. So so you have to make yourself available until you get to the point where you've reached the career level, we're like no, no, no, we'll wait for you, we can reschedule for you, don't worry. That didn't used to be the case when you first start off like next, because they have a million other people that can do what you do. No-transcript, how fast they can get it done, reliability, all these different things that are factors they're going to succeed. They see that, they can just tell, and part of it is that I am a really hard freaking worker and I'm very genuine and open about.  26:09 I'm just always going and doing stuff, but it's gotten a little better with content creation wise, because while I'm still just being me, I do take the time to like look ahead and see, okay, what's coming out. What am I working on? What am I allowed to talk about? What am I not allowed to talk about? What's trending right now? Since right now, I only have this free time on Saturday, and that's it. I'm going to make a whole bunch of stuff that week, and then I'm just going to drop it online whenever I have time, rather than so.  26:34 it's not like I'm making stuff all day long, every day. I can't do that. I can't keep working for free because people don't realize if they're not sending gifts or they're donating to your social media you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart on what little spare free time you've got. I don't have all day long to stream and et cetera. Content creation is. I absolutely agree with you, it's no small feat it is a full-time job that does not pay.  26:59 No small task at all, but it does pay off in jobs, in exposure.  27:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, absolutely, and that's interesting. My next question was going to be what's your best tips for people starting out in the business? You just gave it to me in that last Well, I got a lot more tips than that, but I loved it because hard work and I'm going to say determination, and especially now that the industry has shifted, I mean and evolved and I think you, more than anyone, really understand how to roll with the changes and to really evolve.  27:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Well, you've brought up challenges, and that's what the challenge is that this job has become far more public. It's gotten much bigger. It was already big, but the career itself is already bigger and we have all these factors to be concerned about now, like AI replacing jobs like ADR.  27:50 And the competition has increased by a ton because now people understand technology is caught up, where you can pretty much do this anywhere with a decent Internet connection, which makes a big chunk of the industry going to be much tougher. But if you do all those things in conjunction, if you get training, get training from good, reliable coaches that are honest, trustworthy and affordable, you'll spare yourself years of research and development. Start creating a brand. I say this to people when I coach and all of a sudden it's like people realize all this stuff is just common sense stuff.  28:06 Make your profile picture Be the same. Make your bio Be the same across all your platforms. Just be consistent with making something. Find free time, bank up a bunch of free stuff. Post it when you don't have time, because you may not have time to make stuff later, but be showing what. Like I said, everything is content. If all I have time to do is be in the booth doing my job, then I'm going to record myself in the booth doing the job.  28:29 Add some different audio to it, so I don't break non-disclosure agreement when I'm recording auditions and just post something else over that and make that into a video to show people like I'm freaking, working, I'm doing this stuff here, I am in my booth, or just take a picture, do something, but make content and keep something going out there. Yes, it helps if you stay up with current trends, if you have a particular genre. I'll give you a couple of examples, because people probably think that this is just confined to well, you work in cartoons and movies. It's easy for you because you have all this stuff. That's not necessarily true. You never know which horse is going to win the race.  29:00 I would have thought that Mad Max would have been a great thing to post content about, but it's not doing as well as I thought it would do. So all the other stuff that I do content for is like okay, well, I can keep making that, but you just kind of have to keep an eye on it. But you have inspirational stuff, you have creepypastas, scary stories. There's just so many things that you can do and it be your brand, as long as you keep consistent and keep making something. And in the meantime you're doing auditions, you're out there, whatever, and as you're growing you can start adding that to like oh well, if you book me, you also get this.  29:30 I have a protege. I would love for you to interview her sometime. Her name is Hunter and she did not know what a voiceover was before she met me, but she did have performance experience. She used to be a haunter in haunts and let me tell you something it is harder to be a haunter in a haunt than it is to do stand-up comedy, Because you have an infinite amount of time that you're going to be doing this little performance. You've got about 10 minutes In a haunt. You're in there for hours coming up with characters, terrifying people, improvising, doing all the makeup and stuff yourself too. So there's on-camera stuff as well and you develop crazy skill sets that she didn't even know was a valuable skill set. She can create creature sounds that I've never heard a woman do before.  30:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've only heard Dee Bradley Baker, do what she's done.  30:13 - Jon Bailey (Host) And, like you, have any idea how special that skill is in this industry.  30:17 You need to make content and show people what you do, and especially if it's something that you can do that they cannot do and all of a sudden, within three months of just doing a little voiceover coaching with me showing you the stuff that I know after 16 years, she was booking work, which proves that you don't have to have two years to 16 years to book that kind of stuff. If you have the information and you work hard and you supply the stuff that you learn, you can book stuff right away. This industry is easy to get into. My biggest problem and I'm going to hurt a lot of people's feelings right now my biggest problem is that people come to me with their hands out and that's all they ever do hey, what can I do to blah, blah, blah.  30:52 And I tell them they're like that doesn't sound like I'm just going to be able to do it without you giving it to me. So I'm like if you don't want it, if you're not willing to work for it, then don't ask. It's not a job where you can just go get an answer and I give you a key and you go open the door and you receive the rewards for it. It took 16 years to do that, yes, yes, it can be condensed down to shorter amount of time. When you find somebody like me who coaches and I've made all those mistakes already in 16 years' time I've gone through every version of how not to do the job, then finally figured out the right way to do the job wouldn't it make sense to invest a little bit of money and save yourself a lot of years to get that information and actually use it and apply it and just work hard at the job? It's kind of like Shawshank Redemption All it takes is time and patience.  31:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well, before we go, I do want to talk to you about your transformation.  31:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) You look amazing.  31:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I imagine you must feel great. I feel a lot better today, not so much because I injured my shoulder.  31:45 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'm sorry, that's right, but again, like I said, everything is content and I'm like you know what. A lot of people are already supportive. They want to see me succeed and I wanted to show them that if I can do something, anybody, if you just put your mind to something and you're just consistent at whether it's your health or your career or whatever, if you're just consistent at it, that's all it is. People just fall out of it because they go too hard, too fast. Whether it's your physical health or whether it's the career, they think that, okay, all I have to do is this one thing and then when it doesn't work out in a couple of months, people just quit. Or a couple of weeks, they just don't give it enough time. You don't get healthy in just a couple of weeks.  32:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It took years of back and forth and bouncing up and down, you and I both know, because we both been there.  32:25 - Jon Bailey (Host) I remember, I remember.  32:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You look like a different person too.  32:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've lost an entire person at this point I'm down 145 pounds.  32:33 - Intro (Host) I haven't had my biggest, I was 335.  32:36 - Jon Bailey (Host) That was around the time when you and I met I was literally that.  32:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No neck guy and my overall goal was 170 pounds, but still is wonderful.  32:42 - Jon Bailey (Host) Thank you. I've only got 25 pounds left to go.  32:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good for you. I still have some to go too, and it's funny People are like what? But I need to continually have that challenge. I feel like I'm like you in that way.  32:53 - Jon Bailey (Host) I'll give everybody something that really helped me, and it's going to seem like a silly thing, but if your health is important to you and you have people that depend on you and need you to be around, then you should make it a primary thing. Number one. Everything is content. You can film and take pictures of your progress. My progress stuff gets more traction than my professional career stuff does Mine did too my picture of me shrinking. Those are just pictures not even a video.  33:20 Those pictures had over 3,000 likes and I don't even have that many followers on Instagram. People want to see you succeed and it also inspires them and makes them want to do better for themselves, which is great. So you can literally make that as part of your journey, and I remember incorporating it into my routine. I'm like you know what, instead of it feeling like it's a job and that I have to go lose weight and I have to go hike and I have to go to, I'll make content while I'm out there. I'm make videos of me doing the thing, or make I did different celebrities going to the gym, you know, or working out or exercising, and it became where it was fun and eventually I'm multitasking. At that point, I'm making content and I'm working out.  33:57 At the same exact time, I'm also finding cool locations while I'm out doing whatever that like you know what. This would be a cool place to make a thing. There's so many different cool factors involved in just doing things better for yourself. The gym that I got for the backyard I was like you know what this would make great if I want to do gym videos because they have a very strict policy about making content inside of a gym, so having a gym in my backyard makes it a lot easier for me.  34:21 But it also I got it from another voice actor. Dave Fennoy got rid of his old gym because his studio flooded and he did not feel like putting it back in there.  34:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I got a great deal on it. Oh, that's awesome. I didn't realize that was Dave Fennoy. It helped me network more with yeah it helped me network with Dave Fennoy who's?  34:37 - Jon Bailey (Host) also a local to Memphis, which you know, I've only known two or three other voice actors that came from where I came from. So there's so many positive things about. Everything is interconnected, everything's all part of one big giant thing and it does sometimes feel a little bit like a video game because you're just like this doesn't feel real, but it's just all the parts working together and just looking for opportunities. I'll put it to you this way there's a movie I hate to bring up Jim Carrey again, but the movie yes man. I don't live quite that strictly to that kind of policy, but I do feel like you should say yes to every opportunity that comes your way. Unless you have a very solid like there, unless you have a very solid like, there's just no way I can. If it feels like there's resistance, then don't do it, but unless there's just something that instantly red flags, I'm just trying to be like yeah, I'll, absolutely. I'll do my best. I'll give it my best freaking shot, whether it's my health, whether it's my content, whether it's a voiceover job.  35:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I've been shocked at how many times that has worked out for me.  35:31 - Jon Bailey (Host) Just give it a chance. So many people are not confident in themselves. They don't have security in themselves. I don't think people understand the term fake it till you make it. It's talking about acting. It's literally talking about pretending to be okay and pretending to be fine and acting like you're good even if you're not good, even if you are nervous. This will change your entire life and I'm only going to give this one, and this is just an example of what you get when you coach with me. By the way, if you can pretend to be another person when you go into an audition, it completely changes things, because when you're already acting like you already got the job, you're going to do a better job performing the job. So, whether it comes to in-person auditions or whatever, or social situations or networking situations, you can literally just get comfortable acting like the person who is confident and who is a success until you are that's what faking it do to make it move.  36:22 People on the spectrum and voice actors and actors and performers. We're all very good at masking, and does that make us an exceptional liars? Probably All of us are not like that in our personal lives.  36:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But when?  36:34 - Jon Bailey (Host) you're very good at pretending to be someone else. You can make that into a viable career and it works for your content. It works for your overall brand. It works for your auditions. It also works for your booking. When you actually get the job, People will like you better, when you act like you belong there. In other words, when you go into a session, don't sit there and go. I'm sorry, let me do it again. I'm sorry.  36:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I messed up.  36:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Hang on. I messed up. Hang on. I'm sorry you shut your mouth. Just say let me try that one more time.  36:59 I got a better one in me Change your mindset, change the way you speak, change the way you act. You're faking it till you make it, because eventually you'll start booking those jobs and it's just. I hate to keep using nerd references, but I am one it he could do it because he saw himself do it, and this is exactly. There was a life changing moment for me when I went into record Bumblebee for the third time and it's one of my favorite movies that I've ever worked on. It's my favorite franchise, my two favorite characters that I got to voice. I had no idea who I was working with in that studio. I didn't have a clue. Nobody told me that anybody from the movie was going to be there. The only people that I saw that were famous were some of the other voice actors that were working. So on the third session I was like I wonder who the director of this film is. And I looked it up and it was the guy I'd been working with for three sessions.  37:48 I didn't even know he was the director of the movie. I thought he was just the engineer at Paramount and it was like dude. I was nailing it, not even knowing I should be nervous. So why even be nervous? The next chance I got to work with another director, it was Michael freaking Bay. I wasn't even concerned anymore. Everybody was warning me. He's hard to work with. He's difficulty blah, blah, blah. I'm like dude. I worked with Travis Knight, didn't even know I was working with Travis Knight. I'm fine Because I can just act like I belong there and and people will believe it because I'm being very confident. Even though it's fake confidence, it's still confidence and eventually you'll start to believe your own confidence.  38:22 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's kind of manifesting.  38:24 - Intro (Host) Manifesting that it's faking it till you, make it I didn't understand.  38:27 - Jon Bailey (Host) I heard people say that for years and years and years until I realizing it's just faking confidence until you're actually doing that job, because you really kind of need to prove to everybody else and yourself that, yeah, you can do this, and once you can do it you don't need to worry about it anymore.  38:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what I love is knowing you for so long Like I've seen this happen. I've actually watched you become this incredible success, confident, and it's. I love it. I'm just so, so happy for you.  38:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I appreciate that it really is just about kind of like learning all the cheat codes. It takes me a little longer than most. I had friends tell me like it takes 10 years to get into cartoons. I booked an anime in eight and thought I was doing good, but then it was just crickets for another four years. So you just never really know. But then when I started realizing it really is all about faking that confidence and just believing in yourself, even if you don't believe in yourself. If you can fake it, other people will believe it.  39:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm signing up to coach with you, but actually this is a great segue into, first of all, how can people follow you If they don't know they should know because you're all over the place and then how can people work with you.  39:29 - Jon Bailey (Host) I recently. I won't say it's finished yet because I'm trying to add a couple more pages to it, but I recently overhauled my website thanks to my awesome mentor who also does website design. So if you need a voiceover website, I know somebody and the contact page. There's a section on coaching. My rates are all there. I've expanded from when I first started. You probably remember this. There was a long time I did not want to coach because I didn't feel like I had enough experience for it, because I was like I've only been at this five years. Even though I'm doing great, I don't feel like I've got anything to say to anybody. Brand new, because I'm brand new Now. I don't feel I've got a decade and a half plus two years of research and development.  40:01 I've worked for the biggest studios out there. I have gone through every version of how to do this job wrong, just like Thomas Edison inventing the light bulb wrong 99 times. I figured out the right way to do it by doing it wrong so many different ways. So I haven't named it yet, but it's kind of like the gamer's guide to voiceover.  40:17 - Intro (Host) It's a little cheat code magazine.  40:18 - Jon Bailey (Host) Love it. So, yeah, I'm really easy to find Epic Voice Guy on every major platform and you can contact me via my website page or any DMs across any of the social media. I'll probably still sling you over to my website because it goes straight to my email address, but my coaching rates are ridiculously affordable compared to most people and you won't have to keep coming back for more coaching sessions unless you want to, because I didn't like that when I got started. I think we had this conversation before. I was very against the overall coaching community because I felt like so much of it was predatory. They were giving some of the same information over and over that you can find on the Internet for free. And now they have a website. D Bradley Baker God bless his soul created Iwanttobeavoiceactorcom, and now I don't even have to like look, if you don't want to pay me, spend a few weeks on this free website. No skin off my teeth, you don't have to pay me a dime.  41:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If they're not willing to look at that website for a couple of weeks because there's a lot of information there, then they don't really want to do this job and that's my number one go-to thing.  41:12 - Jon Bailey (Host) But yeah, I coach and I also do other stuff too. I also offer, if they want, fan stuff, a little bit of everything Awesome.  41:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, you do. I remember that you were doing that back 16 years ago too.  41:23 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, I try to look at the industry and see where the gaps were and see where is something missing. It's like, oh, I started realizing these brands that reached out to me like, oh, we realize, you make a lot of Transformers content. I was like, well, you know, as a voice actor and having a professional page, I should freaking have a shop page.  41:39 And then call those companies and say hey, would you like to advertise for free on my website? Duh Three or four, I'm like, yeah, we'll give you some free ads and we'll even throw you a commission if they buy some stuff through the way I mean.  41:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) there's so much opportunity.  41:51 - Jon Bailey (Host) We just don't. Nobody really takes the time to think they're just looking at insert job here in the voiceover business and they don't think about all this other stuff.  41:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's the business mind too.  42:01 - Jon Bailey (Host) Yeah, the simplest way I can put it, because I know your time is valuable too. The simplest way I can put it is if you're going to fish because you're starving to death and it's your only option, you have plenty of opportunities to fish, but you have a boat and you have a place to fish Do you put one hook in the water or do you put them all in if you have the opportunity, to put them all in there If you have a chance to catch more fish? Look for every single chance, every single opportunity, whether it's a YouTube and a TikTok and a Twitch and a whatever. If you're a gamer, game, if you're a reactor, react but do something. Build it around your skill set, make content on every platform out there. Look for every opportunity networking opportunities, voiceover meetups like what Anne and I used to go to the coaching sessions from people that are reliable free website resources.  42:47 There's a ton out there If you just put in the freaking effort. That's where you guys make me angry. Put in the freaking effort.  42:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) This podcast is a resource.  42:55 - Jon Bailey (Host) Exactly, I've been doing this podcast for eight years, eight years weekly. So yeah, I just celebrated my eight year and you guys are not paying for it. This is free resources that are extremely helpful, Jon.  43:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Bailey, john Bailey. Oh my gosh, it has been so wonderful. We should have like five more, no, 15 more episodes.  43:11 - Jon Bailey (Host) I mean I would if I didn't have a game to record I know right.  43:14 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I could go on and on and on and I have a session I got to get to myself. I take that back. Five sessions.  43:19 - Jon Bailey (Host) I forgot one. I just booked another one today. Five sessions and two out of five are at home. That's not normal though.  43:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But I did want to be fair and honest. That means you got to drive three out of the five too, so that's time involved as well. Knowing this area.  43:32 - Jon Bailey (Host) Oh, that's aed. There you go, there you go, oh my gosh.  43:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) John, it's been amazing. Thank you so, so much for this. Bosses out there, follow John and coach with John. I'm telling you, you were like a fountain. You're a fountain of wisdom and information and again, thank you I keep telling people they should go to me.  43:54 - Jon Bailey (Host) I've got living proof. If you want living proof of how far you can come with a little information for me, if you are properly motivated and you work hard, go to VoxyDitch on any of the social medias. That's my mentee. I'm mentoring her and look how quickly she has people coming to her asking her for voiceover advice. Awesome, only being in this job for a few months.  44:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome. Well, John, thanks again. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can network and connect like bosses like John and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Everyone have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  44:33 - Intro (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Join us as we sit down with Steve Pogatch, Senior Manager of Voice Over Operations at Studio Resonate, SiriusXM and Pandora, to uncover the transformative journey of voiceover and audio advertising over the past decade. Prepare to have your perceptions of podcast advertising turned upside down. We dive into the fascinating differences between host reads and announcer reads. Gain valuable tips on delivering standout performances, crafting compelling commercial reels, and handling ambiguous scripts with finesse. Steve underscores the importance of prompt communication and reliable turnaround times while highlighting the industry's efforts to protect voice talent amidst the rise of synthetic voices. Finally, discover the impact of the Sonic Diversity Initiative, a significant step towards inclusivity in voice casting. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, upgrade your voiceover game with VIPeeps and access our extensive library of over 350 hours of pre-recorded workshops. Whether you're interested in commercials, audiobooks, corporate narration, video games, promos, our workshops cover it all. Plus, as a VIPeeps member, you'll enjoy a 15% discount on current workshops and complimentary monthly workshops to further develop your skills. Join VIPs today and take your voiceover career to new heights. Find out more at vopeepscom.  00:39 - Intro (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level the boss level. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, anne Ganguza, and today I'm very excited to have with me in the studio a very special guest, senior Manager of Voice Over Operations of Studio Resonate, which is SiriusXM Media Pandora Stitcher, Steve Pogatch. In addition to producing thousands of high-quality audio ads in the past 10-plus years that he's been at Pandora, steve has been the go-to guy for all things VO casting, direction and quality. He's responsible for recruiting, auditioning and curating new talent for the Pandora VO roster, as well as managing that roster. Steve, I am so super excited to have you with us today. Thanks so much for being with us.  01:42 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I feel like I've reached the upper echelon of the VO world now that I'm on the Boss podcast.  01:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So thank you so much. Well, thank you, thank you. Well, we're super excited to glean all of your years of wisdom and I'm just so excited that we had this opportunity that I saw you in person. I had to see you in person to beg you to come on the show. So let's kick off things by talking a little bit about your journey at Pandora. You've been there for 10 years and I know in the past 10 years in my voiceover career, I've seen a ton of things change. Talk to us a little bit about what you've seen as far as changes in audio advertising, casting and voiceover.  02:24 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure. So yeah, about 10 years ago when I started I was just a producer and our voice roster was maybe about 60 talents or so Wow, and yeah, when they started their advertising department they were getting talents off of Craigslist and other places that I really didn't know. So when I got there, that roster was on an Excel spreadsheet really and it was just filled with all kinds of information and it was really hard to manage and navigate. But a lot of the voices were that terrestrial radio, you know announcer-y style voice.  02:56 And one overarching theme is that voices and everything we've been doing for the past 10 plus years has really just escalated from the announcer-y like hey, pandora listeners, you know like radio style, to hey, pandora listener, you know it's like instead of talking to a group of people talking to one person, you're interrupting their music flow, you're tapping them on the shoulder. You know you're in their earbuds and you just hey, let me tell you about this Tide detergent or Cascade dishwashing liquid or something like that, and just the gentle approach. So it's really gravitated from the super announcer-y, terrestrial radio style to super conversational. The directional word I love to use nowadays is casual a lot. Everyone's sick of conversational already. They're like oh yeah, you're talking to a friend, blah blah, blah, you know yeah.  03:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You know, what's so funny is just my own personal feelings about it is, I get that Like I think they're just sick of the conversational word, but in reality we have conversations with each other every single day, and so there's all different styles of conversational. It could be authoritative conversational, it could be like super casual conversational. I think that when it comes to advertising, though, one of the reasons why it's kind of gotten to that in your ear one-on-one sort of, I think that's what sells and I think that's the evolution of advertising over the years. Would you say that that's true?  04:18 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think so it's. You know, the more personal you can get, or targeted, you know, with an ad, or I mean not to the point where it's creepy, but to the point where it resonates with the listener. You know where it's like, oh yeah, the same thing with VO talent getting into a script and connecting with a script. It's like you want to connect with that listener, like, oh yeah, I do use that dish soap every night.  04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, I want to.  04:40 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Oh yeah, that sounds interesting to me, you know.  04:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then I guess my question would be is and this is probably something you're very familiar with is that they ask you to have that casual, like engaged, sort of sound, but yet they don't always write it so that it's easy to achieve that? Do you find that, in terms of the copy that you're seeing come across your desk over and over again, like people still want it to be very, you know, like you're talking to your best friend or that casual, but yet sometimes it's written like super announcer-y?  05:08 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and that is hard. That is really hard when you get the bullet point style our orange juice has 100% fresh pulp and made from only Valencia oranges. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like there's three other facts attached to that and you're squeezing that into 30 seconds spot. It's like how do we get these bullet points to be super conversational?  05:30 - Intro (Host) That is hard.  05:31 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) That is very hard for a talent and for a copywriter. So we do have some great copywriters on our team on Studio Resonate that actually really write great scripts and whenever I can get scripts with humor in them or stuff like that, it just really makes the whole experience better.  05:48 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now in the studio, are you always writing the copy, or do the clients come and provide copy as well, or do you make suggestions? Let's say, when they come with copy and then they ask for a super casual read, or they have 5,000 words when they need it in 30 seconds.  06:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, that happens. The struggle is real.  06:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) The struggle is real.  06:06 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I'd say I don't know the exact percentage, but from where I sit I don't do the writing, but it feels like maybe half and half half are our copywriters and half might be the clients, and sometimes we'll actually take the clients and go here, let us try and rewrite this in a Pandorified way or something like that. And sometimes again, it's like those bullet points-y stuff that really need to get in there and don't even get me started on like some like pharmacy disclaimers and stuff like that.  06:32 - Intro (Host) You probably know from medical narration and stuff like that.  06:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's just like woo. You know, it's like 90 words in a 30 second script.  06:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, but they're changing too. It's interesting if you actually listen to some of them now I don't think they're as fast as they used to be, because I'm almost positive that because it's a legal disclaimer that they have to be, like, understood by the listener, and so sometimes if they're talking too fast then it's not clear, or because I've really noticed that trend and I don't know if it's the same in terms of I've seen it on television at least.  07:04 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  07:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know about Pandora, but very interesting. So then my question is is the casual read dying? Are people coming back to announcer style, or are you seeing variations on the type of casual?  07:20 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I hope it's not going back to announcer, because we've really worked hard on this whole gentle approach. Yeah, exactly, and you know personally, when I meet a voice actor who's locked into that whole radio world like I have 27 years of radio experience how do I get on your roster and I just kind of go well, how do I let you down gently?  07:41 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, exactly Because you're looking for an actor.  07:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Some talents and again talents who haven't really evolved with us in the 10 years that I've been there at least, or may not be on our roster anymore because there has been that evolution. But yeah, it's really difficult for some people who have been locked into that radio world to actually shift and change and it's part of their muscle memories.  08:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right Interesting. I know that even when it comes to, like, long format narration, I know that just reading it it doesn't cut it anymore. I mean, you have to be in their ear and that's super hard, given you've got more than a minute's worth of copy and it's not always written in a first person kind of way, so that I know the struggle is real for that as well. So, in terms of advertising, would you say that there are more advertisements from 10 years ago today, or how are you seeing the trend? Because I know in podcasting there's a lot of people who, like they find advertising annoying and so they fast forward quickly, and so I'm just curious to see how advertising is received in terms of listenership and in terms of popularity of people. Yeah, let's advertise on Pandora.  08:49 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's funny because when I first started this job, I would meet people at like a party or something like that, or a dinner, you know a get together, and they were like oh, where do you work?  08:57 - Intro (Host) I'm like, oh, I work at Pandora.  08:58 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) They're like I love Pandora, and then I just sit back and wait for the next sentence. They take a breath and they go, but the ads, yeah, exactly.  09:14 - Intro (Host) You, he knew it. And then I go, hey.  09:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I make those ads and then talk about like an awkward. You know you can hear a glass drop in the background, but it's just like, well, we're trying to you know to make these ads gentle and not as abrasive and in your face like real radio ads.  09:22 And then they turn around and they start to agree with me. I'm like yeah, yeah, you know, okay, but I think the Free Pandora, you knowora, has really kind of survived on the advertising and I haven't really done a count in a while, but I don't think it's that many ads. I don't think it's really changed over time either, like in terms of an ad pod and an hour listening session.  09:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, I think it is what it is. I mean, you have to support the medium and I know that for myself, like on the VO Boss podcast, I've had sponsors which I wait until the end typically to say anything about the sponsors. But lately I'm like gosh, I've had this podcast for seven and a half years and I've never done any advertising, and so now I'm kind of doing my own ads. Now we'll see how that turns out. But my question to you is is that podcast advertising is now really started to become a thing just because podcasts are now becoming a thing? So what are your thoughts on that? Are you seeing trends? Are you seeing changes in how people tolerate ads and podcasts?  10:16 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I mean, I actually am guilty of fast-forwarding through a podcast ad recently, when I was listening to a podcast.  10:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It better not be mine.  10:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Shame on me.  10:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like a voice actor who fast-forwards through a commercial on television.  10:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right, it was their own. No, no, no.  10:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I don't watch commercials Really.  10:34 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) But since SiriusXM bought Stitcher a few years ago, they were a podcast company. So we had to kind of figure out okay, we're going to do a lot more podcast ads now, so what does this sound like? So I feel like in the past few years we've been kind of sculpting this. There's a couple of different versions of what we work with in our group, on our team, and one is host reads. You know, it's like you have your Conan O'Briens and they're just handed a sheet of bullet points and they're ad living.  11:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes, and I think that's effective.  11:02 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, if you ever listen to Conan O'Briens ad reads, they're incredible.  11:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, it's smart list. I'm going to put my vote in for SmartList. Okay, Really, really excellent. It's Sean Hayes, Dustin Bateman and oh my gosh, Will Arnett.  11:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  11:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And so each one of them take turns. And you're right, they get the bullet points and they add them. They're amazing, they're funny. That's the best yeah, and so I agree. So that's just so so interesting yeah.  11:25 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) So that's the host read, and then we also do this thing called announcer.  11:29 Read now again that word announcer is not used in the same context that I just told you that we've evolved from. It's just quote announcer read, it's another package or whatever. So we've been trying to sculpt what does this announcer read sound like? Well, in my eyes it's like an offshoot of the conversational, because you're listening to a podcast and it's usually two hosts, you know, or whoever the hosts are, they're just shooting the breeze, you know, talking to one another, you know, we've all heard that. And then boom, a podcast ad comes in. So how do we want that ad to be? And it's the same thing as interrupting someone's music flow Again. But this is like. So we just want that super casual approach.  12:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) But you can still tell the difference, because it's not necessarily ad-libbed right Like a host Right.  12:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, you can definitely yeah, but we're trying to write that way as well, and we've been working on this for a couple of years already, and I feel like we're getting there and we have a select group of talent.  12:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think I'm going to hire you guys. I wrote my own and it took a long time because trying to write it as a host and in trying to like write something to sell something, I'm doing it myself, not bouncing it off anybody, and so it's a tough way to write. I mean, it's a whole different way of writing. Very interesting.  12:41 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I actually. You know, I produced a podcast for my wife and her sister my sister-in-law and my wife is a therapist and a coach and she has products and stuff like that and she finally said oh, I should advertise myself on there. Sure, I said, you know, go to chat GPT and have them write some scripts for you and adjust it.  13:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) She didn't ask you to write them.  13:05 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No.  13:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, Steve, I think maybe.  13:07 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I already do too much. Producing this podcast is a lot more work than I expected, but I said feed in your website or something like that, so they know who you are.  13:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Again, I'm not super experienced with it yet I did have some help with ChatGPT writing my own ad, yeah and she came up with three, and so I created three commercials for her.  13:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Now I put them in a rotation for her midway through her podcast, so it's cool. And then they also turn it on ads wherever they're uploading their podcast to as well, so it'll be her ad, and then whatever ads they decide to put in there as well.  13:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, let's talk a little bit more about when you're recruiting or trying to find new talent for your roster. What is the process and what are you looking for? What sort of qualities in a voice actor are you looking for that are suitable for your roster? I know before it used to be a thing in the industry where it would be like, oh, they're opening up the roster, so everybody would be like, oh my God, did you get an invite, or it was that kind of thing. Or did you submit? Did you submit and did you get asked to be on the roster? And it was a big thing when you weren't thing, when you weren't. I remember that it was years ago. I submitted. I just remember, like going in the underground VO circles, it was the big thing.  14:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, and I will say it's very hard. We have 260 talents on our roster, or 250 talents on our roster right now, and I'd say it's pretty jammed up, so it's like it's really hard to like find what are we looking for now. You know, I feel like every time someone applies or sends me something, the number one reason I have to tell people is you know, you kind of sound like one or two other people on our roster and I feel bad like you are a superstar.  14:41 But yeah you know I can't give the people on our roster a disservice and I can't give you a disservice by oversaturating those kind of voices. So it's been tough to manage and we don't open the roster at any particular time. I know at the end of the year I do a little house cleaning. So people who aren't really, who are maybe booking one or two jobs a year, it's like, let me tell you, that's the hardest thing about saying goodbye to someone because they're not booking enough, like sorry, you've only booked like two gigs in the past two years. It's like you know that's not sustainable for you as us being a client of yours. It's like you're firing me. I'm like no, I'm not. No, I don't want to use that word, no, but again, it's not sustainable for you to just book one spot a year from us. You know.  15:29 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I book one spot a year from us, you know. So, right, I agree, and I also think that it's hard for talent because they take it very personally when in fact sometimes it's not. I mean, sometimes, yes, it may be performance related, correct, but myself, having been in casting and having done Vio Basta as an audition demolition, but in casting and for projects like that, I just know that sometimes it has nothing to do with the performance, it has everything to do with oh okay, I have this product and this voice is not the demographic that I'm looking for, and so a lot of it is based on the client and what kind of voice they're looking for and who they're trying to sell to. Is that similar to what you feel, as well as to why some people get picked on the roster, like is there a trending sound right now, like millennial, like that kind of thing?  16:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, I mean there was the millennial thing, I think, but we've gotten everything we need right now and I just like what I really watch out for is oversaturating certain age ranges, you know, and just like you know, okay, we already have some, you know, senior age, males only a couple and then it's like do I bring one more on? No, because again it's that oversaturation thing. That's the thing I have to watch out for the most these days.  16:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what would be your tips or secrets to help voice actors deliver their best performances? Not necessarily to get on the roster, but because I mean you've been casting for years and casting talent and performances. So what would be your best tips for helping VO talent deliver a great performance?  16:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Sure, I mean, I think the number one thing in the way we deal with talent is we're not doing a lot of live sessions, we're booking via email. So in those cases you're going to have to send us three takes, and your confidence and your self-direction is really what's at play here. So I would say that's like the number one kind of thing that we really hope you have is that confidence and self-direction, because you're going to send us three choices and you can't be unsure and you can't send us three of the exact same carbon copy. We've had some talents in the past?  17:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, how often does that happen?  17:33 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) It's happened where I actually have taken all three of their takes and put them on top of each other in Pro.  17:38 - Intro (Host) Tools or whatever.  17:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) And it's just one thing, echo and there's no difference between any of them. It's almost like it's eerie. Yeah, so that's a no do. But other stuff, definitely a good commercial reel. I think from like listening to a ton of commercial reels, I'm starting to learn like what makes a good one these days. You know, and also sitting on the speed dating with your demo panel the past few years at Solvus, I've had people give me demos that are, like you know, sound effects heavy, and then there's another voice on there and I say you have 60 seconds, add up the sound effects, add up the other voices on here. What's that? Four, five, six seconds? Okay, that's 10% of your demo.  18:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's not you. That's real estate.  18:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, so you can have sound effects, but not have it just be by themselves or start your demo with a big explosion or something like that, right, unless you're going for terrestrial radio or whatever I don't know. But yeah, other stuff is like. One thing I really appreciate from a talent is I call it VO intuition. If you have a script that, for example, it says finance or something like that, and you're not sure the way the client wants it, you know it's finance or finance and I want to write a book that has those words in VO data data. You know, I wonder if anyone's done that yet. A book that all the words that could be said two different ways.  18:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh right.  18:57 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There's my quarter million dollar idea. I guess I don't know. But if you have a script like that and it's like 9 o'clock pm and the producer's not available, send it both ways and say hey.  19:07 I gave it to you. So that's what I call VO intuition. I really appreciate that when it's like oh, I didn't know if you wanted data or data, so I'm giving it to you both ways or I'm picking up this sentence. Stuff like that is really great, but it's not a requirement. Good communication If I send good communication, you know, if I send you a request, I want to hear back from you within, you know, three or four hours, say, yes, I got it, I got you, I'm going to hit it by the deadline, no problem, our turnarounds are like 24 to 48 hours, so we need that as well. So, yeah, stuff like that and other stuff. I mean definitely the commercial demo is number one. These are nice to have character work singing, but, again, not required got Got it.  19:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what qualities in addition to like, let's say, the demo? Right, let's say you have a demo and the demo is amazing. And then, all of a sudden, do you find talent sometimes that don't equate to the demo. Meaning what you hear on the demo is not necessarily what you get back when you give them. Okay, here's a job the customer picked out for you. Can you give me three versions of it? And then, all of a sudden, it sounds nothing like their demo. And then what happens at that point?  20:09 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Do you direct them or yeah, I mean, there is always a chance for us to get on the phone or do a live session. But in terms of our recruiting and the way it works to get on our roster is we listen to the demos and if we really like it, then we'll reach out with a whole packet of auditions. Oh god, this is like 12 different scripts you know from like automotive, university, healthcare, retail, and then we've just created a podcast script and cpg, which is consumer packaged goods, and a conversational script and ad lib script. So it's like 12 of those scripts. So that gives us. So you'll find out. Yeah, did you record in a fancy studio and now you're at your kitchen table and what you did on your demo? Is that also translating as well to our scripts?  20:53 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let's talk a little bit about I always call it like the technological disruptor in the room synthetic voices. Are you finding that you have clients that are looking for that these days and, if so, do you have a source or how do you feel about it? What's your take on synthetic voices and their place in the industry today?  21:13 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there are some spots where it would be good for a talent, you know, like if you had your clone and you were in control of it. I think that is number one. Again, I want to shout out to Nava and everything they're doing for. Ai Because I believe in all the stuff that their manifesto, everything about how they stand for the vo industry and ai.  21:34 I'm just so into what they're doing so I gotta shout out for them. But there are places, you know, suppose you were given something you know where you needed to read like 2500 addresses or something like that, you know, and you're just like, oh god, I can't do, I can't do this, I'm going to blow out my voice or it's going to take six hours. And then you're like, all right, I'll just do the body of the spot and then turn my clone on to do that. It's hard to figure out. What are the rates? What is a good rate for that as well? You know, and that's kind of stuff I think about, you know, when I'm what is a good rate? I always want to stand for our talents and try and get the best rates possible for them. So you know, that's something I need to think about if we ever were to go into an AI world Right now. I mean, some clients are asking for it and stuff like that.  22:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And what type of applications Are they asking for it in terms of it's because they can't afford or they have, let's say, volume material that they think it's an ongoing thing where just a date will change or a price will change or a couple of things will change.  22:30 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I don't think it's gotten that expressive yet or that detailed yet. I think they're just like wanting to touch the new toys that are out there Play around yeah.  22:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I actually almost I agree with you on that, because I feel like it's kind of novelty. People just want to see how good it is and I think for certain things, as you mentioned and a big shout out to Nava and one of the reasons why on the VO Boss podcast and Bosses if you haven't listened to it I did an extensive set of interviews with a number of AI companies to talk to them about ethics and the industry and synthetic voices in general, and I got educated. I did a lot of work and I got educated and I think that's wonderful and Nava is a really wonderful source for being educated as well, and so I think if we own the creative license to our voices and we can control it, I think that's moving in a positive direction and we just need to get it there first so that we can do that Absolutely.  23:27 But I don't think that the technology is there yet for emotion or rhythm or that kind of thing, although there's lots of great examples out there, and the scary thing about some of the great examples is somebody will say, oh gosh, listen to this. And everybody's like, oh my God, it's really good. And then everybody panics and gets scared. And in reality there's a lot of technical things on the backend and this is just from my own education, from interviewing so many people that worked in the AI industry that there's many, many different ways that people come out with these samples and you don't know how much engineering is done on the back end to make them sound that good.  24:01 And there's different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different technologies too. I mean there's text-to-speech, and then there's speech-to-speech, which is an entirely different thing, which is what they use for high-end Hollywood movie dubs, and that's where it sounds scary good. And so a lot of times you don't know. You don't know how it was produced or how it was manufactured. But kudos to NAVA again. And the sooner we can get legislation in place so that we can be protected, the better. You know, I've always said that we should, as an industry, just evolve. I mean, we're not going to make it go away, that's for darn sure. So we need to evolve and somehow work with it as it evolves as well. I don't think anymore that AI's high power is in synthetic voices anymore. I really feel that it's in data manipulation and data curation, and that's where its true strength is in terms of helping the world, you know, and hopefully in a good way.  24:55 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah, I think there's also in my mind. There's a difference between, like the synthetic voices which are just like sprinkling stuff into a blender, and creating a new voice, versus a real person who owns their clone and they're in charge of their clone. That, to me, feels like the more comfortable situation.  25:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And to me I feel like that's like money-wise, it's an equal split, right? I feel like I should get 50% and the company that has my voice and generates my voice and hosts my voice right with their engine should get 50%. That's where I start in terms of why not, right?  25:28 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) yeah, if you need a pickup and you're like I'm sleeping, I'm on vacation, I'm in charge, I'm going to push the button, I'll get you that pickup, but I'm just going to set it for my phone right here, you know, or, yeah, you're in charge of that locker or whatever it is.  25:40 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So yeah, well, what other predictions? So I guess I'll say, if you took a look into the crystal ball outside of synthetic voices, what sort of predictions do you have for the future, at least for yourself and audio production and advertising?  25:54 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, this is what I'm enjoying a lot more in my day-to-day is more immersive sound design in audio advertising.  26:05 We are starting to do some cool stuff in the 3D space, where and I'm now the go-to guy Well, I'd like to think I'm now the go-to guy on my team for horror movie trailers or all things horror, because I just did something the other day that was really cool for this horror movie coming up and I just enjoyed taking an alien and going whoo whoo, whoo, whoo whoo, but in the headphones, where it comes from the top of the head to the bottom, or you can go around in that 3D space in headphones, which is really cool.  26:41 So anytime I could do that where you're just getting more theater of the mind stuff to actually immerse a listener and just have the VO be a support to that. I think if we can get more into those kind of things almost cinematic ads in your headphones I think that might be the way to really get people to enjoy ads too and really just be like whoa, did you hear that? You know, imagine people talking about did you hear that audio ad? You know? Like when they're in the same way people talk about super bowl ads, you know it's like, yeah, I'd love to get there.  27:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, audio ads like that. One other thing before I have to leave you, we could probably do five podcasts with all this really great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the sonic great conversation. Tell us a little bit about you started something called the Sonic Diversity Initiative. Talk to us a little bit about that. Sure.  27:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) This is like something we started during the pandemic. It's called Stand for Sonic Diversity and is a website we created called standforsonicdiversitycom, and basically we just started to take a look at our casting practices and other advertising agencies and we kind of put out almost like a pledge to other advertising agencies hey, will you guys pledge along with us to make your casting and your rosters more diverse and more inclusive? And as a result, I've worked really hard and I'm proud to say that our roster is now more than 50% voices of color. So I'm really proud of that work and we're trying to also make sure that our casting practices are that way.  28:10 Because, back then it was like you know, you're just like, unless a client specified, you would maybe assume like, oh, if they don't specify, then they want a white talent as their go-to and it's like no. So we decided we can move the needle from within by just making these changes internally and smartly, and it's the right thing to do. And so we also put this pledge up to other agencies and other advertising conglomerates and stuff like that, and hopefully they all join in as well.  28:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Wonderful, wonderful.  28:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Well, thank you for that, yeah if you go to that site, there's a really cool audio spot that you can play there, and I am I'm proud to produce that spot as well.  28:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So what's that site again? Stanforsonicdiversitycom okay, awesome, so all right. My last question, which is here's a fun question for you if you were stranded on a deserted island and you could only bring three albums or podcasts with you, what would they be? I mean, I figure you must have some music preferences, for sure yeah, oh man only three, wow all right.  29:15 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) One of them is Prince.  29:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Ah, Of course I say 1999.  29:21 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) No, it's a double album.  29:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, just saying Prince is enough for me. Yeah, yeah, I would absolutely.  29:27 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I like that it's the one with Housequake and Starfish and Coffee. I don't know why the name has escaped me. It's one of my favorite albums too he's brilliant. He's brilliant. Yes, and then I'm also a metalhead and I like kind of like heavy hardcore music and there's a band I.  29:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why did I know that? Why did I know that somehow?  29:44 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I play in two bands actually, so that's my weekend. Therapy is going and playing super loud music.  29:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go, and what do you play if I can?  29:51 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) ask I play bass.  29:52 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay, awesome, my brother plays. Brother plays bass. Yeah, wow, okay, can we hear you anywhere? Is that a thing? Can we hear you somewhere?  29:59 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Uh-huh, I'm in a band, it's an all-dad band, and this is the best name for an all-dad band. It's called that Ship has Sailed. I love it, I love it. We're on all the streaming places and I'm in're called Converge and their album is called Jane Doe. Okay, and then one more.  30:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh God, it could be a podcast too, if you have a favorite podcast.  30:29 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Yeah.  30:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because you've got to keep yourself busy.  30:32 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Right.  30:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So maybe the podcast would be more refreshing because it would come out on a regular basis.  30:39 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) There was one podcast I listened to by a co-worker introduced it to me and it's not something I can listen to over again because it was pretty intense, but it was really cool. It was called Sweet Bobby, I think. Okay, it was like a kind of a true crime kind of podcast.  30:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that I have.  30:53 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I wouldn't take that with me, though. I'm sorry you put me on the spot.  30:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's okay, that's all right. I think you did really well.  31:00 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you.  31:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So let me ask you I'm really excited by the way that, before I let you go, that I'm going to have you as a guest director for my VO Peeps group, which is going to be really amazing coming up in July. So thank you, Very excited to have that happen. If a voice talent, Voice talent want to reach out and find you, see all the good things that you do, listen to your band and also the other website that we mentioned, when can they find you?  31:23 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) You can probably hit me on LinkedIn or my email address is spogach at pandoracom. It might change to SiriusXM shortly. But one thing I like to tell talents and I guess I'm overly nice this way is like I'm always happy to lend talents their ears, like, for example, if someone sends a mission out or they want you, they want to know oh, why didn't I get that audition? You know, I'm happy to give feedback on there. It's like almost like you're all sending resumes out in the world. You don't hear anything back. You know it's, and it's like you're sending auditions out and no one ever gets feedback. So I'm always happy to lend an ear and give feedback. Or someone's like oh, can you listen to my demo? If I have time, I'm glad to take a minute and listen to someone's demo, give them feedback and stuff like that.  32:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's wonderful, I guess I'm too nice, I don't know. Now I'm going to send everybody your way out.  32:14 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) I know.  32:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) By the way, I'm changing my email address. There you go, yeah, right, well, steve, it has been so wonderful to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Steve, thank you again, it's been wonderful.  32:35 - Steve Pogatch (Guest) Thank you, can't wait to see you. It was great talking to you.  32:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah for VO. Peeps and bosses, you have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  32:44 - Intro (Host) Bye-bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IP.     

Explore the intricacies of financial success in your voiceover business with our new series "Boss Money Talks," featuring special guest Danielle Famble. Discover how assembling a team of financial experts, like accountants and CPAs, can help you track expenses, handle taxes, and ensure consistent profitability. The BOSSES highlight the benefits of separating personal and business finances and the advantages of having ongoing relationships with professionals. They discuss the benefits of quarterly meetings to assess profit and tax liabilities and the complexities of running a business, including payroll and compliance. This episode is packed with actionable advice to help you build a reliable financial team and set a solid financial structure for your voiceover business. 00:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza, and today I am so excited to start a new series called Boss Money Talks with the one and only Danielle Famble. I am so excited, Danielle, to have you on the show today to talk about something so important to our businesses, and that's money. Welcome, hey.  01:10 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Anne, thank you so much for having me on. This is really exciting.  01:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, I have to say it is my honor to have you. When I interviewed you and bosses if you didn't catch our last episode together I was just blown away by your savviness financially and, of course, voice actor and all that other good stuff. But it's very rare to find someone who really is all about the financial aspects of things and you're just right on top of everything. And I just was so excited to ask you to create a series with me on this because I think it's really important for the success of any boss out there for their business.  01:47 So, kicking off the first episode, I thought maybe we should talk about forming your team, because I recently spoke to my accountant and she handles things for me and I absolutely love it and I said it so many times across many, many episodes how important my accountant is to me. I thought, wow, we really need to like go over this again for any bosses that are out there really starting their own business how important it is to get your finances in order. Do you have a team of people that work with you? I mean, I know you have background in finance, but do you have a team of people for your business?  02:22 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I do. I think it's really important to talk about having a team, because as a solo entrepreneur, you want to do everything yourself, and some things you could do yourself, but it's just better to have an expert in that field. Oh, I so agree, and so, for me, I think I am the expert in the business in voiceover, in what I do, and so I want to bring in experts who are good at what they do so they can help educate me on how I can run my business better, because the main point of having a business is to create a profit, which is more money coming in than goes out, and if someone can help you exactly that's like kind of the basic, that's what we're doing here and if you can have someone who can help you exactly.  03:03 That's like kind of the basic. That's what we're doing here, yeah, and if you can have someone who can help you understand the profits and the business and what to do with the money and how to handle your taxes, all of that stuff, like having that team will help you grow and scale your business.  03:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and I think accounting isn't something that I love to do. I mean, that's like one of my biggest reasons for when I got my accountant was that. Not that I wasn't financially savvy, but it certainly wasn't my main focus. I didn't go to school for it, and so when I started my own business, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to keep track of all of these things, like I'm spending money on equipment, I'm spending money on coaching, I'm spending money on demos, and God, I have to report this at the end of the year, right, and it just.  03:46 I remember I didn't really have great record keeping in the first year. Now, granted, I was doing it part time, but still I had to account right for the money that I expensed and the money that came in, even though it wasn't a whole lot. That first year, I wanted to make sure I was taking advantage of the fact that I gave up the corporate job. And now, all of a sudden, I've got to account for things, because at the end of the year, uncle Sam is going to want to know what I've been doing and when I waited too long to be very organized in my expenses and accounting, I, at the end of the year when I got ready for taxes. It was hell. It was just pure hell.  04:23 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) No one wants that. Like two or three months or two or three weeks I've been there of like just the worst possible aches in your stomach because you're like, oh no, in, like March or April, it's just horrible.  04:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's like oh God, tax season, it's here. I got to do this. I got to do this and I was using oh gosh, back in the day, I was using QuickBooks, but on desktop, and so it was like I want to talk about like 15 years ago, and it just was like one of those things where, like God, I got to enter another transaction.  04:55 It was just one of those things that just became very tedious and I was like I really don't like this. And ultimately I was very fortunate to have a recommendation for an accountant that could work with me. And that first year because again it was so long ago QuickBooks wasn't online or anything and, as a matter of fact, there was that whole stigma of you don't want to do anything financial online because it's scary and your security and that kind of thing. But how lucky are bosses in this day and age you know what I mean to kind of have that advantage that now things are so much more secure. Now you might say, well, is it really secure? But I have to say it's a whole lot more secure than it used to be, or at least I was always comfortable.  05:37 I remember in the 90s paying my bills online and I was one of the few people to do that. I mean, in the beginning I was just like, look at some point, you just have to trust the technology at some point and it's so much easier to pay things online. When I got my accountant for my business here, it was like magic. It was like we would meet once a week and she got to know my business and she got to know, like, what sorts of things were expenses, what sorts of things were income, and especially important was separating those expenses so that it wasn't all I had one account. I mean, I think when we talked before in our past episode we talked about how important it was to have a business account. Talk to us a little bit again about business accounts and what's important about that.  06:20 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) The most important, especially when it comes to taxes, but really just for simplicity, is to be able to separate your personal life from your business life. Your personal life, hopefully, is affected by your business life, as in your business, pays you to do the job that you do for your business. But keeping them separate is going to be very helpful, especially when it comes to taxes, and it will be easier for your financial team, as you build it, to be able to say okay, this is tax, this is business and this is personal. Here's how we keep them separate. There may be tax implications. You may be able to write certain things off if it's business, whereas if it's personal you can't. So it's helping you, but it's also helping your team keeping everything separate.  07:07 It's like legally, you kind of have to. I mean, imagine if, like any major corporation, the CEO of that corporation is just like swiping their own personal credit or debit card, Like you've got to treat your business, no matter the size or the scale of it, the way that other businesses are treated because they are taxed similarly. So this isn't necessarily just about business practices, but for me, with money, all of it I think about is like, come April 15th or come like the quarterly tax period. How can I set myself up for success now so I'm not feeling crunched and stressed for a couple of weeks during tax time when my CPA is probably not as available to me because they've got other people to work with? So keeping it separate will help you with bookkeeping. It will help you with, like the way that you think about your business and personal, how you can pay certain bills on time. Just keep it two separate accounts one for your personal and one in your business name.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sure, now question for you. Now my I guess I would call her my bookkeeper. She also does my taxes, so I don't know if yours is one in the same, but what I found to be super helpful and convenient is that I literally just have her on retainer. She does everything for me, and what is wonderful is that now we use QuickBooks online and so literally we can have a meeting and the two of us can be on the phone talking on a weekly basis or whenever I need to meet with her regarding okay, what is this? Is this a new category or is this an expense? And she pretty much knows my business because she's been doing this for me for about 10 years, so she pretty much knows what's going on and it makes it so easy. I cannot tell you that this year at tax time and the last few years really have been like oh yeah, hey, oh, it's April. What do you need from me for the taxes? Do you need anything specific? Because she also does our personal taxes as well as my business taxes.  09:07 And so in reality, like we barely have to do anything except send her the paperwork that we get and boom, she's done, I mean, and it's so stress free, I don't ever have to worry, she's got a good handle as to where I am. The other thing is that she's got a good handle as to where I am at any given point during the year, like how am I doing profit wise, how am I doing compared to last year? And she can generate reports and so she can really keep me up to date on what's happening in my business. And then I can say, all right, maybe I need to cut back here or I need to invest more here, and so it's really so helpful. And for me then she is the one person I guess you would say on my team that handles pretty much everything. But let's talk about creating a team. Who do you feel is necessary to have on a team to set yourself up for financial success in your business?  09:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I think this is a situation where you can expect to grow as you go. So I would say the first person to add into your financial team, your money team, is a CPA or some sort of accountant who is going to be helping you specifically when it comes to your taxes. But you made a really good point because you have an ongoing relationship with your accountant and for me in the past I would only go to my tax person when it was time to do my taxes once a year.  10:27 But if you can plan to have an ongoing relationship and I also have my accountant team on retainer so they know where I am throughout the course of the year we have quarterly meetings where they give me quarterly reports on where's the profit, what is my potential tax liability as of that time of the year, as of that quarter. So, looking past just April 15th and saying, okay, this is a relationship that I'm going to have with a person ongoing For me. I didn't realize that in the beginning and that's something that I've more recently figured out. So I would say to bosses out there make sure that the relationship that you have with your accountant is not a once a year relationship.  11:11 This needs to be an ongoing relationship throughout the course of the year, because then they can help you with tax planning and if you're forecasting for what's happening in the future, then you won't feel so shocked. I've been there. You won't feel so shocked when it's time to write that check or maybe you get a refund.  11:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean hallelujah if you do Absolutely, and you know what else too is that a lot of times I'm shocked by the state of California and taxes. But you know, that's just a whole other issue that has nothing to do with my lack of preparation for it. But anyways, the other thing too depending on the type of business, if you have a DBA or you know an LLC or an S-corp which I do I also have to pay myself, and so I have to do that on a regular basis, and so she takes care of that as well.  11:57 For me, she took care of the registering of it, and anytime I get a letter from the IRS or from and which happens a lot with this S-Corp because, they're either keeping me up to date on the newest things that are happening or maybe, for whatever reason from two years ago, they always seem to find, like you owe us $1.30. And I'm like, really, like you couldn't tell me that like $1.30. And the funny thing is is that my accountant has always been so. On top of it, she's like, no, actually, no, we paid that and so she will take care of all of that for me. I'll just have to like scan the paperwork that gets sent to me directly because my business is here at this address, and then I'll say, ok, what do I need to do? And she literally will say, ok, here we need to go to the IRS and we need to file this or do that, and it's more than just what you owe.  12:42 I'm talking about all the paperwork that needs to be filed for running an S-Corp for me in the state of California and as well, as she pays me so that, again, I'm not surprised at the end of the year and as a matter of fact, I've not been surprised really. I've been surprised when I actually got more refund than I thought, which is great, but I've never been like, oh God, I have to pay money, which always makes my stomach twist and knots, because we've planned so well. And a lot of times she's up on the laws, right, because that's what she does, right. This is why I'm like why try to do it yourself? She's up on all the laws and so she'll say okay, so this year or now they've introduced something new where you can expense so much of your mileage or so much of your medical expenses, and so she's up on all those things, and that way we can take full advantage, because who wants to pay more taxes if you don't have to? That's all I have to say.  13:35 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Exactly, and it's not even just about taxes as well. You go back to what you're talking about being an S-corp. I didn't know when it was the right time for me to be an S-corp. And so getting that information, if you can find in your accountant, your CPA, whomever you're working with, find someone who has the heart of a teacher. Dave Ramsey says that. And find somebody who can help educate you, because I wasn't trying to work with someone who just I handed things over.  14:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, especially your financial data. I mean that is personal and sensitive right and it's got to be a. I think you have to have a special relationship with your accountant.  14:13 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) To be honest, yeah, and personally I'm curious because I love money and numbers and talking about this and also I love my business. I love what I do and profit is a huge part of my business, or at least even the income, the money that's coming in, is a huge part of my business. So I want to understand it. Sure, I want someone who can teach me how to think about things, what I need to know going forward, that informs what decisions that I make, what conferences am I going to budget for? How am I paying myself? All of those things as part of an education, so that person isn't just telling you what to do. You are working with them and then you can direct them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support them with your business goals and ideas and they can help support you with what they know.  14:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Which I love.  14:56 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's a huge part of the money team and for me. You said that your accountant and bookkeeper are one and the same. Mine are two completely separate people.  15:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh, okay.  15:04 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Okay, so the accountant does just the taxes and tax planning which we have our quarterly meeting, and then the bookkeeper is a completely separate person who does work at the accountant's office and they do my monthly profit and loss reports and send that to me Any day-to-day. They have access to my QuickBooks so they're seeing everything that I'm seeing basically. So they're kind of a different point of contact and I appreciate the separation because my bookkeeper is an expert in the bookkeeping aspect. So if I have questions I go to that person, if I have questions about taxes I go to this person. I like that separation but it doesn't have to be that way, it just happens to be that way.  15:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, no, and I agree, I feel like mine is a very unique case because she did our taxes before, but she always did her taxes. First I didn't have her as my ongoing accountant forever. I used to just go to her once a year and then I realized we developed a relationship and I realized I was like God, I hate entering, I hate having to do this every month. She goes. Well, I can do it for you. And I was like oh, yes, please.  16:08 So I think also, what's wonderful is isn't it nice that now we have things that like, especially in our business, our income comes in electronically and that can be filtered right into, so I don't have to manually like oh, I wrote a check, I don't have to manually enter it into QuickBooks like I had to do 10 years ago, 15 years ago, right, oh, I have a checkbook. Who writes checks anymore? I mean, I still have a checkbook and I do have to write checks every once in a while, but I mean, gosh, it's so nice that if I get a client payment that comes in via PayPal and I think it could be a whole separate other episode was what are your methods of payment? Because you got to make it easy right and what's important to know about that. But PayPal, Stripe, Wix, backend payments, QuickBooks allows payments, so I have lots of different banks  16:57 right. These are considered banks, right. Paypal's considered a bank, stripe's considered a bank, and so the fact that QuickBooks can integrate these in automatically it doesn't do it perfectly, but the fact is is if I get something that comes into my PayPal, simultaneously, it is fused into my online QuickBooks account, which is nice, so I don't have to enter things in and again, like I don't, but she does, and she'll make sure that it's categorized properly, because sometimes it tries to automatically categorize and it doesn't work right, but she's on top of the categories and making sure that. Then I know, oh gosh, I'm spending a whole lot of money on subscriptions or whatever. That In a lot of ways because the manual method was tedious.  17:40 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) It's super tedious. And imagine throwing into that someone pays you personally instead of paying your business. How much that like throws a wrench in the whole bookkeeping plans and everything else, which is why it is important to start with the separation of business and personal accounts. It's enough, you know, just the bookkeeping itself for your business is enough. Then adding in additional things to have to add and subtract, and forgot that I have this card. I use my credit card for everything personal business. It makes it really difficult down the line, especially as you grow your business. So, yeah, it's great to have everything electronically, it's great to be able to be paid in multiple different bank accounts or different accounts, but keeping it all under the umbrella of your business, separate from you personally, is really, I would say, like the baseline.  18:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And I think the simpler the better. But then again, for me and anybody that knows me, I have multiple departments of my business, or multiple businesses really. I'm not just Ann Gengu's, I'm not just VO Boss that's one of my brands and then I'm also Ann Gengu's of Voice Productions and I'm also VO Peeps, and so I've got really kind of three different streams of business that come in. And you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, of course I'm always looking for more streams of income. And so you know, I think if you can keep it simple, I'll take income any way you can throw it at me, but for my accountant I've got to make sure that it's organized and easy. So the more that I diversify my business and again I'm thinking of diversifying yet again for another brand, just because I like to keep it interesting. So I've got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later. Got another brand coming up, but I'll discuss that later and so I want to try to make it as simple as possible for my accountant but yet still allow clients to pay me in a number of different ways.  19:26 I will make mention that I had my one business account, which I had to, actually had to change over to a new business account, and the reason why is because I changed my name. I originally was a DBA under and speak and then when I went and I created the S Corp, I became Ann Genguza Voice Production, just changed the name. But because I did that, all of a sudden it became like a thing with my bank that said, hey, who's this? Ann Genguza Voice Production. So because I didn't have the two registered at once, I didn't go back in DBA and add it in. They registered at once. I didn't go back and DBA and add it in.  20:04 They then said my business account was not valid under the name and speak. So I had to open up a new business account. And so it amazed me just how tied in that one business account was to everything that I did, to my PayPal, to my Stripe, to my website here, pay me. Everything would go on my Venmo, all my Bank of America was tied into that account. Or my cards, my debit cards, were all tied into that one business account, and transitioning it over became like oof. That's an event. As a matter of fact, I still haven't completely transitioned over and completely closed the old account, so I still have money coming into two accounts. Now it's even more important that I have a team or I have people really watching both accounts.  20:44 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Oh yeah for sure your new business is being treated as a new business, even though it's not.  20:50 It's the same business under a different name.  20:52 But that kind of tells you why it's so important to really start and plan it, to create almost the foundation for how you're going to be separating your accounts, the names, how you're getting paid, what's being paid in taxes, who's going to be your team to oversee all of that. Really setting up the structural foundation of the financial components of your business how that's run is really important. The unfortunate thing is it really is tedious and time-consuming when you're in the process that you're in. But you only have to do it once and you learn the process so that you know what to do in the future. I just recently purchased a rental house in my home state of Texas and I was speaking to my accountant about like I've never done this before, what do I do, and she said oh well, you just treat it like you treat your other business. And for me, having the experience of doing this with my business my voiceover business has actually taught me what I can do. To copy paste the principle the idea, so once you get this.  21:54 Once you understand how you're working your business and creating the structure for your business and the team that you need to help you, you can actually take that knowledge and just copy and paste it to whatever the next thing or the next industry is, which is really pretty great.  22:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. So, in addition to, let's say, your bookkeeper and your accountant that does taxes, is there any other member of your team or anything else that you can recommend for bosses? And also I'm sure the bosses are like oh my God, I'm not even making money at voiceover, how am I going to afford? Right, I want to address that as well.  22:28 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) Right. So, like I said, this is a grow as you go situation. I did not start by having a CPA and a bookkeeper, and you know the other members of my team, which I'll talk about in a second. So I would say, start with what do you need in the moment. If what you need in the moment is an accountant, which I would say everybody's got to pay taxes, so I would start there is having an accountant. Maybe it's not somebody that you have on retainer, but it is someone that you can maybe check in with once or twice a year outside of tax time, so that you can make sure that you are educated on what you need to be doing to prepare yourself for tax time. I would start there if you can, and then, if you can, grow to having that person be more of a person that you work with on an ongoing basis. That will definitely help you as you grow. Bookkeeping is something that I think you should understand how to do on your own.  23:24 Oh, I agree, I think you should educate yourself first, you should definitely educate yourself, but eventually it's something that you might want to outsource to someone else. For me, my metric is do I like doing it? Am I good at doing it? If the answer to both of those things is no, I will find someone I like that. That is their gift.  23:44 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Shop around. I mean, it's got to be somebody you trust. Again, your financial life is, I think, very personal and people want to be very secure about it. So it does take a special relationship, I think, with a person that you trust, with your numbers and your bank accounts.  23:59 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) And you might need to, yeah, shop around. You might need to work with multiple people.  24:08 The CPA that I'm with now is not the CPA I was with two years ago, and so this is still a relatively new relationship that she and I that we're cultivating, even with this bookkeeper. So there's a lot to learn, but you need to learn about it from a person who, like I said, has that heart of a teacher who wants to help educate you. That's how I would take it, and that's actually what I did was at first, I was working with someone who was just doing taxes and it was up to me and I was clearly not up for the job of bookkeeping, which is why I had those three weeks of panic in late March early.  24:42 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) April.  24:43 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But you can grow as you go and find the people who can help educate you. Now I also have I think we talked about this in our past episode but I have an assistant who for the day-to-day applications in my business making sure invoices are sent, making sure they are paid, making sure they're marked as paid, not only in QuickBooks, which she and I do together, but also making sure that there are no outstanding invoices like that kind of day-to-day thing.  25:12 Some people have a bookkeeper do it, I do it with my assistant and, to give her credit, she's really the one who's like more on that day-to-day in terms of data entry and things like that. Obviously, it's something that not every VO boss is going to have an assistant at whatever stage in their business. It took me a while to get to that point, but I have found it helpful because then it's like one less thing that I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. That I'm doing in terms of the day-to-day touch points. And then, finally, I work with a financial advisor, because I wanted to work with someone who could help me understand my finances as a whole as a business owner and personally, and what's great is that I will have quarterly meetings with the financial advisor, the bookkeeper, the CPA and myself.  26:00 we are all on a big like money call quarterly.  26:03 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And.  26:03 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) I have monthly meetings with my financial advisor about my personal goals with money and also, you know, with the business, and she can give me feedback. Like one of the things she said to me was hey, if you don't understand something in these meetings, I would love to see you show a little bit more courage and ask if you don't understand, because while I say yeah, I have the heart of a teacher.  26:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Sometimes I don't even know what to ask, and so I just you shake your head and go okay, uh-huh yeah sometimes you're just like okay, yeah. I get it uh-huh and I'm like I have no idea. I have no idea where they're going with that yeah.  26:38 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But it's totally okay, even as the boss, the VO boss, to not understand, and that's why you're relying on these people.  26:47 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely.  26:53 - Danielle Famble (Co-host) But really, truly like lean into your curiosity and understand, because these people that you're working with like I said, the ones I'm working with now, I wasn't working with two years ago. You may work with a new team at some point, and so you want to go in with a level of armed with the knowledge about how your business is run and what your goals are for your business, so that you can direct your team instead of them telling you what to do, because you are the boss, absolutely, and what a wonderful note to end on.  27:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you are the boss and so, yeah, you need to educate yourself so that you can direct these people with your financial aspect of your business, which is so very important and so very close to our hearts as we run our successful businesses. So I manifest that, danielle, thank you so much. I could go on and on and on. Now I just thought like a hundred other questions which I'm going to ask you in our next episodes. But, bosses, stay tuned for this brand new series called Boss Money Talks with Danielle Fanville. I am so, so happy you were here today, danielle. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge. Bosses, I'm giving a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at ipdtlcom. All right, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, thanks, y'all.  28:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Grow your voiceover business with actionable insights and expert advice from THE BOSSES! We dive into pivotal resources and strategic investments necessary for your success. The BOSSES share transformative coaching strategies that can shift your whole perspective on script interpretation and character understanding. By aligning your unique strengths with market demands, you can stay relevant. We emphasize the lifelong commitment to ongoing training and professional coaching, along with the need for top-notch demos and a polished website. Your website serves as your professional storefront, boosting your visibility and credibility with potential clients. Practical advice on budgeting, wise investments, and cutting unnecessary expenses will help you navigate financial challenges and maximize your resources to grow your voice acting career. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, bosses want to be that well-rounded talent that's always in demand. I offer coaching in a variety of genres, including commercials that grab attention, medical narrations that educate, corporate scripts that inspire and e-learning modules that engage. Find out more at anganguzacom.  00:22 - Testimonial (Ad) As I was getting more and more into the voice acting industry, I started realizing that it'd probably be really good to start specializing in certain sectors. I started talking with Anne and we realized that corporate might be really good for me, both in the way that I thought about things and in the aspect of the industries around me, what would be good for me to market with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with Anne for me to realize that with. So we decided to go with corporate, and it only took a handful of sessions with ann for me to realize that I was looking at sentences differently because of the way that she was teaching me, um, the way that I had to think about my character in the mint in the middle of like a paragraph or in the middle of even just the sentence itself. She really drove home the fact that you have to think about these things. There might not be a place given to you whenever you get the copy. There might not be a person there whenever you get the copy, however, that has to be there. There has to be some sort of connection in order for you to really understand that character in your corporate narration.  01:18 Moving past that and into other sides of different industries, I started doing more video game work and realized that the way that she taught me about sentences, the way that she taught me about my character and realizing that there is another person there even if it's not in the copy, there is another person there it was almost revolutionary. I absolutely love the way that I look at sentences now and the way that I go about my work, and she really changed all of that. I have to give her as much credit as I can. I know I know it sounds weird saying that the fundamentals were revolutionary, but the way that she teaches it, the way that she makes you think about it, it was revolutionary to me and it definitely has helped me a lot in my journey.  01:55 - Intro (Announcement) even now, it's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  02:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with my lovely special guest, co -host Lau Lapides. Hey Anne, hi Lau, how are you Fabulous? How are you? I am awesome. Thank you so much. Ah, Law, I've had a busy week, a busy week with students, and I've made an observation that I might have mentioned to you before, but the observation to me is that lately, especially with the economy not being the best, I've had a lot of students who spend time talking to me about how they're very frustrated that they've not been able to move ahead, and that they know that they need coaching, or they know that they need more coaching, or they need a new demo, or they need a website, but yet they can't afford it, and so I wanted to like maybe talk to the bosses about resources and how maybe we can wisely utilize resources in order to grow our businesses, because I just have been hearing it so so much lately, Lau.  03:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Me too. I mean, when we work with students and have clients, it's a constant state of conversation. And it really is true, it's a bad economy and we understand inflation.  03:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're the starving artists, we know what's going on.  03:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, exactly yes we understand how much milk and eggs cost, like everyone does. We can't shove that under the rug. It's real. It affects everyone. There's an impact. We totally get that. But I'm of the belief system and the training and background that we have to make money. Yeah, so we have to make money before we make money, right. What I mean by that is we have to create it like an alchemist out of nothing. We have to make it happen so that we have those resources to go out and do what we need to do.  04:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Right, I like that, yeah, we need to have money so that we can invest money, so that we can grow our business, and if we don't have that money, there's got to be ways that we can create that money. As you said and I like to manifest it right Come from abundance right, and not necessarily have my dark cloud over my head saying it's not possible, I can't do this. I really think that the mental state has a lot to do with it, as well as being resourceful. So I know that for some of my students, when they talk about what are they doing to invest in their business and Lau, what are the absolute essentials that people need in order to run a successful voiceover business in terms of things that money that they have to invest? What are the things that are the absolute essentials?  04:49 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Right. I think we all can agree those of us who are in the industry that training, coaching, classwork, is just a basic. It's just the most rudimentary that we have to have, and it's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day's something that is a lifelong learning. It's not just five weeks, six weeks, one day. It really is a lifelong learning, and so we have to be careful how we invest in that, because we know it's for the long run. It's not just a quick hit, overnight success and go. It really is going to be throughout your career that you're going to need retraining, you're going to need to upscale your training, and so we have to be careful how we plan for that and how we utilize our resources. But I would say training leading to your production work of your demos is baseline.  05:34 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, yes, I am a coach and a demo producer and so, of course, I'm going to agree with that. But I agree that I mean honestly not just because that's part of that's my livelihood, but honestly, bosses, your product is your voice, right, and you need to showcase that product to your potential clients. And so the best way to do that is to make your voice the very best that it can be. And I mean, how else do you do that outside of getting training and coaching and practice and classes and workshops and that sort of thing? And then you need to have the medium in which to showcase that range of talent and that range of acting skills that you have, and that is, more often than not, your demo, and it has to be able to be available for people to listen to, right, so it needs to get in front of people's eyes, it needs to be distributed so that you can then sell it as a product.  06:25 And so the very essentials I'm right there with you are the training to get your voice to be the product that it needs to be, to be competitive right in this industry and to be competitive so that you can make money with that voice, and you need to have the demos so that you can showcase that. And a lot of people will say to me well, do I really need the demos? I do auditions right. So my answer to that is yes, you need to also audition and do the custom auditions that your potential clients want. But also you need to have that medium that sits in your online storefront or somewhere on a roster, like on a pay-to-play, on a roster, in all the places that it can sit while you're sleeping, so that other people can listen to it and make their decisions and say, oh, I need that voice.  07:13 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, case in point and we had a big job, big client come through about a week ago and we did the call and it was right on the script, the audition was right on the script. Sure enough, they came up with two of our people that they wanted to shortlist and they said we need to hear their demos, yeah, yeah. Now if we came back as agents and said sorry, they don't have demos, can they just record something for you? Already your credibility goes down the drain Because they're thinking of course you have demos, you've selected them for your agency roster, so they're sitting there ready to go right, which they are With these particular people. They are, and we sent it, we expedited that right out. It wasn't a question, it wasn't a problem. And so the least amount of problem that you can cause, the least amount of friction that you can cause in terms of having the best practices ready to go, well, you have to pay for that. That's one of those resources you just have to pay for. You have to have it.  08:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you have to have the training, you have to have the demo, and that showcases your product.  08:16 Then, once you have your product right, you have to have a storefront right or a way to distribute that product, and there's lots of different mechanisms to do that.  08:24 The first and foremost that I can see is, if you're a business today, you have to have a website, and so investment into a website. So it means the hosting of the website, it means the creation of a website that deems you as a professional right, so that it looks as if you are a professional voice actor and that's what you do for a living. And so I did not go to school for website creation right, and even though I did try to do it myself I mean, I managed a website a long time ago but I'm not a graphic artist so I do believe that you can invest some of your money into having somebody help you make a beautiful place to showcase your product, because for me, it makes a difference. The packaging makes a difference. I don't know human nature, right, I love pretty packaging and a website that is done well and done professionally and is efficient so that you can sell that product, is absolutely worth the investment.  09:15 So that would be my next thing I would say that is so important is your online storefront, and so that includes somebody who's going to host it, and that's typically going to be like a monthly or a yearly cost. You have to buy that domain name too, which is yet another like yearly cost or monthly cost, and then you have to have somebody that designs that website and maybe maintains it or keeps it up to date, and if that's something that you can do, then that's fine, but I would say, if it's not something that is your specialty, I say that there's another worthy investment, right.  09:47 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And of course it goes without saying, but we have to say it and that's having some sort of home studio set up. Oh gosh, yes. So for all of the new folks who are listening in right now, I know it's so obvious to us, but a lot of new people are coming into the industry and saying how do I set that up? What do I need at home? How much money do I spend? Well, I'll tell you. You have to have the basics for your home studio setup, and that does include SourceConnect.  10:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So now, when we sign a talent under a contract, they have to have SourceConnect, it has to be available to them. Now I have so many people that say that they have SourceConnect but they're like, look, I'm going to wait until I get the job and then I'm going to get SourceConnect Right, just having SourceConnect myself. I mean, unless they've changed things considerably, it's not an easy thing to do within a short amount of time. I mean, I know that there needs to be ports opened up in your router in order to allow the stream and not be firewalled out, and so for me, the setup I mean required some time, and I would hesitate to say wait until you get that job before you invest in it. I mean, I invested in the one-time fee and there's also a monthly option so that I'm at the ready whenever I'm needed, and so it sits there waiting for my client, and so I would say don't skimp on that. And so, yeah, I can't believe I like. That just eluded me. I just assuming everybody has that studio.  11:09 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I know right, and yet a lot of new people coming into the industry don't know yet. They really don't know. And I would say okay, if you want to wait, you wait. But I'm telling you this it's a psychological decision you're making, because what you're saying is I could wait on an excellent mic. I could wait on a good computer. I could wait on almost everything. I, a good computer, I could wait on almost everything. I could wait until I'm working. But which came first, the chicken or the egg? You have to have good stuff. You have to invest in yourself before others are going to invest in you.  11:39 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, and these days you have to have great sound.  11:42 I mean you have to be able to—and, like you know, with our audition demolitions. When we are judging and giving feedback and criteria, the first thing that will make me throw out pretty much unless if somebody's completely botched up the name of the file, because there is a specific way to name the file that most casting directors prefer, and so if you can't follow directions, that's number one. But number two is if the first thing I hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine. Hear is that you have a poor studio sound, I'm throwing that audition out the window, because that's something that I need right to be pristine.  12:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I also would say you need to invest in some sort of SEO in terms of your marketing. I know that's the big buzzword now. Everyone marketing, direct marketing. Half the people don't know what that means or know what that is. And I say listen, don't think of it as marketing, Think of it as building relationships, Like you're connecting with people, you're connecting with prospects, you're connecting the dots so that you can work. That's really what you're trying to do. Well, that's expensive and time consuming. After a while, Just think about this how much do you pay for Wi-Fi? How much do you pay for your computer access? That's all stuff you pay for. You can't do it without paying for those things. Right? Those are your investments.  13:00 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I've got to piggyback on that and say technologically right, pay for an internet connection that is stable and allows you to communicate efficiently with your clients and potential clients. So don't go cheap on your internet connection because, especially with SourceConnect, you need it to be a good ethernet connection to your router, and it has to be an ethernet connection, by the way. So that's another thing I would say. Now your studio needs SourceConnect. You're going to have to make an investment to make sure that you can get to that router using an Ethernet connection versus a Wi-Fi connection, because that is unstable. A lot of times Wi-Fi will cut in and cut out and the last thing you want is to be doing the best take of your life ever while you're connected to another studio using SourceConnect and just have the connection cut out and that doesn't look good for you as a professional and it doesn't look good for any of us and have business speed.  13:55 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, you know what I mean have your best plan that you can have Get fiber if you can I have gig fiber?  13:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Get boosted.  14:00 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, get boosted, get a boost.  14:06 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) If you need a boost, like do whatever, you need't connect or why you're dropping out, or why the transmission is bad, right, sometimes you can't help it, but most of the time you can, yeah, and I'm going to say that have students that are in all stages of coming into this industry and some of them aren't quite sure if it's going to work for them right, so they're hesitant to spend the money.  14:26 But if you come to someone in your initial steps of trying to get into this industry and you're training and you already don't have enough money to train properly, then that tells you something.  14:38 That tells you that you need to get that money together in any way that you can right in order to advance and move forward.  14:46 And so, really, if you're coming into the industry for training and then you just want to get that demo right away, I think you need to change your mindset, because it's not going to be obviously, as we've said a billion times before, it's not that you can do this in a couple of sessions and then get a demo and go out and start making money. I mean, this is a process that if you look at things wisely and you use your resources wisely, you can steadily grow and move forward. And so that means that when you are starting and you are investing the money into training and then you're finding out if this is something that I find joy from and I have passion about continue to invest that money, but maybe not spend trillions of dollars right away on something that you need to continually invest in and then not have that money. I mean, I had a couple of part-time jobs that kept things flowing in the household while I was transitioning to full-time.  15:39 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Listen, you and I are old school in the sense that we had more demands. We'd just get another job. We'd get another side hustle, we'd make it work, we'd go under the seat cushion and save our pennies, like there was never an excuse in our backgrounds as to why we couldn't do something. I'm not suggesting you should get into major debt Like I don't love debt, don't get into debt but there are times where you do need to acquire some debt in the investment of your career. Like a lot of college people are going into college and spending $75,000 a year. Well, they're making an investment in their career, right?  16:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) How interesting is that? Like you bring that up, I think things have probably changed in terms of are people spending $75,000 a year to go to a school now for college education? I mean, things are changing. I mean people do, but back in the day it was a thing it wasn't even thought about twice. You paid that money because it was expected that you paid that money for training, got the education and then you went out and got that job and that investment was going to pay off in a nice job.  16:38 Now things have changed a little bit, I would say in terms of like, is it necessary to have that college degree? I mean, I think it's necessary to have education in some form. It doesn't necessarily have to be a college degree, but education in the career path that you plan on pursuing. And so if voice acting happens to be that one, then you're going to have to have some money to pursue it. It's not that quick money grab. We're going to make a lot of money and not invest a lot of money. So you have to step through, I think, carefully and wisely, and so maybe give up that Starbucks on a given day. That can really help you. I mean a couple of pennies here and there can really help you to save up for the training that you need or that demo that you need.  17:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I would agree. Yeah, I would look out for your expenses. Make sure you're budgeting so that you know exactly what you're spending monthly. Look at all the surplus stuff that you're getting that you really don't need, whether it's a membership you don't need. Whether it's a latte you don't need. Whether it's taking excessive trips that you don't need to do, whether it's I mean. I could go on and on, and I'm not a financial advisor. This is not professional advice. I'm just telling you from my experience how I come up with a lot of money at the drop of a hat by sacrificing. Well, we can be frugal.  17:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We can be frugal right.  17:55 Of course, yes, we could. It's one of the reasons like so now I'm going old school but one of the reasons why, when I was a child, my parents took us camping, right, they couldn't afford big, expensive trips, so we went camping and so, you know, we went to the parks where we could get in for like five dollars a night and that kind of a thing, and so that's how we were able to live a comfortable life, I think, and really also have fun. So I think you mentioned the trips and gosh, I love taking trips, but there are times when I can't afford the trips that I want to take, like every other day.  18:28 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, I know, here's another obvious one for you a great computer.  18:34 - Intro (Announcement) I need a great, relatively updated.  18:37 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) It doesn't have to be spanking new, but I work with so many people, annie and I know you do that say oh, my computer's like 10 years old. I don't know if it can hold the audio. I'm like well, upgrade it. Go, update it, because it shouldn't be 10 or 15 years old.  18:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, that's a wise investment, Absolutely. I mean, you're talking to a girl, a tech girl, here. I'm like at this point, actually my computer at home needs to be upgraded. I just know that because now it's starting to do weird things. You know, when your computer starts to do weird things, like it reboots on its own and it's like some unknown error.  19:07 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Yeah, launching 12 programs without you being there.  19:10 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I mean, there's a time when it becomes a necessary investment, and I just know that I'm reaching that time to get a new computer and I know that I'm reevaluating my monthly subscriptions right now as well. Case in point here that my email service provider has now doubled their price to me, and this is the email service provider where I send out the boss blasts. And so now I have to go back and actually crunch the numbers and make sure because I'm charging a certain amount for a boss blast and a certain amount for a monthly boss blast, and now that they've raised the price on my email service provider, I have to make sure that I'm still generating a profit, at least enough to pay for it right and to reinvest for another year of it. So periodically you've got to just take a look at those numbers to make sure that you are still okay with making a profit and moving forward in your business, because you don't really want to.  20:04 I mean the first few years though of your business is probably going to be in the red. A lot of new businesses show in the red for the first few years, but you can't do that for too long, otherwise the IRS will be like, hmm, that sounds familiar. There's something going on there, then we might get audited. And I actually have been audited twice already, not because I was suspicious or it showed any suspicion, just because I mean it is our own business.  20:29 And I've been in business long enough, you're in business long enough, you're going to get audited.  20:32 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And so yeah, you want to make sure that if you get audited you're ready. Yeah, you're ready for it.  20:37 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And that's your next investment is an accountant, oh my gosh Accountant.  20:43 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I'm married to one. Everyone needs one. I'm telling you Accountant, someone who really can deal with your books, who really understands that you run a business, you're an entrepreneur, deals with your receipts in an appropriate way, what are your tax write-offs, getting you money back at the end of the year? You need someone who's clever, creative and wonderful and works cleanly and in an organized way. If you don't have someone, hire someone and a lawyer and an attorney, someone who can go over contracts with you.  21:12 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, yes because none of us are attorneys. A lawyer is lovely. I just engaged my lawyer the other day, so, yes, it's wonderful to have one that you can go to if you should need to.  21:23 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And then, of course, another obvious one that I have to say you need a smartphone. It's really important, and those of you who are actors, you have to have a smartphone because all your self-taping is going to be on your iPhone. But you really have to have it because oftentimes people would describe it including myself, as your walking office. Like a lot of us don't have home phones any longer. We put all the investment into the cell phone, into the mobile, and we're on the road. Annie, are you not in a car day and night, working from your car? Well, I mean hands-free, of course. Well, you're in California, so, of course, hands-free. But the point is, I was in my car half the day today. I was working. The whole time I was working, yeah, absolutely, because I don't have to be back at an office.  22:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) You need to be able to respond to your client inquiries right all the time. So that is important and that is something again like that can be expensed that smartphone.  22:15 And so those are the things I mean. Gosh, I can come up with a lot of things, and it's funny because a lot of people will say, oh well, I didn't realize that was involved. I mean, when you talk about marketing right, that effort of marketing I mean half of the episodes in VO, boss, more than half are about how to build your business, and marketing is such a huge part of building your business because I always say that you can have the best voice in the world, but it doesn't do you any good if nobody knows about it, and so marketing is key. And then that includes marketing is like your time, right, your time in finding leads and generating leads and nurturing relationships, and so that's something you have to invest in and you may want to invest in some help in doing that.  23:00 You may want to have a boss blast. I'm just going to say that.  23:03 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Well, you took the words right out of my mouth because I was going to say when you're at the tipping point, and you'll know when you're at the tipping point, meaning you just can't handle more than you're doing, you need to hire a VA. It's really important to get that one assistant in that can take the load off, that has expertise that maybe you don't have, that can really take on some of your projects and push the needle of your business forward Absolutely.  23:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and so what you need to do, get yourself a business mentor too. I mean gosh. I just want to say that I do a once a month special, the once a month special with Tom Deere, the VO strategist, and he's wonderful. I love Tom, yeah, he's amazing, and so I highly recommend Tom in terms of helping you to, like, get your business together. Do you need to register your business? How do you do it? Do you have a plan? Do you have a strategy? I mean, that can really be a wise investment. And again, maybe not that Starbucks, maybe not that of course, I say that because I've been buying clothes all the time but maybe not that extra pair of shoes, or maybe not. It's one of those things. Where are the priorities?  24:07 - Intro (Announcement) And I don't want to be like a mom.  24:18 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I'm not, but honestly, it becomes where I hear this so often and it's exhausting. I'm just going to say it's exhausting because I think to myself gosh, I mean, I, when I first started, I had quit my full-time job and I was like, oh, I'm going to go into voiceover full-time, and so now, what do I do? Right, you become resourceful. Right, you have to become resourceful, you have to really do what it takes if you want to make a go of this and you want to be successful. And there's a lot of people who have support, people who will be like hey, so what's going on? Are you making money? What's happening? And so I mean we've got enough of that as it is. We need to really question our own selves to make sure that we are making the wise choices that we can make in order to move forward.  24:56 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I love that I mean, we could go on and on with this, but I don't want to scare everyone to think you need everything at once. You can layer as you go.  25:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, and it can be something that you wisely invest. You make a plan and it happens little by little. I mean, gosh, our overnight success Lau. Mine took a long time.  25:16 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) I laugh. My 30-year overnight success? Yes, exactly.  25:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, it was a lot of blood, sweat and work, and work.  25:24 Tears, a lot of work and a lot of work doing stuff that maybe I didn't want to do, right, that I was like damn, I wish I could have taken that trip. Or I really want that pair of shoes. But right now, right, I want to grow my business, and so what do I need to do? I've got a payment coming up right for my internet. Or I'm going to upgrade my internet, or I need to upgrade my computer, or I need to improve my studio sound, which the one thing I'll say about studio sound, I mean, once you get it set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I set, it's a no-brainer, it kind of just stays, it's great. I mean equipment doesn't really die. I mean I've had my microphone for years, this studio here, it's not falling apart, that's for sure. So I've made the investment and I'm done For the most part.  26:07 - Intro (Announcement) I've got everything for a good long while.  26:09 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So that's okay, I got my backup right. I got my backup mic, I got my backup computer. I have things in case things break. I've got the backups, and so that took time and you know what.  26:20 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) Get help in determining. Yeah, it takes a long time. Yeah, get help in determining what you want versus what you need. Yeah, I like that. Like, really keep that journal in front of you Want and need. Do you have like wants and needs Right? We think it's so strong. When we want something, we want to get it, but we don't oftentimes need it. We need what we need and really determining what do we need first, and then later we can reward ourselves when we're making extra money.  26:45 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I think it's all sequencing it is, it's choreography, and we did touch upon and I'm going to say, just because I know that training we talked about that was like one of the first essentials. But sometimes there are professional students who train and train and train and train and train and yet it's almost like they're scared to start and so you've got to be careful with that too, and I would highly recommend that you go back and listen to that episode.  27:06 Bosses, We'll put a link in the show notes, but yeah, you've got to start at some point.  27:11 - Testimonial (Ad) You've got to start no-transcript.  27:27 - Lau Lapides (Co-host) And with that, don't go down rabbit holes you don't need to go down. Don't go into major technical fixes, don't go into major learning curves during your workday unless you have to, and don't overload on the training throughout your day. That will procrastinate from what you need to get. To Make sure you get your work time in first, then do your professional development and education time if possible, because you don't want to take up a whole day or a whole weekend or whatever, unless you really need it, unless you plan for it. Absolutely, I think you just need to plan for it,  27:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I know it's tough out there, bosses, but we have the faith that you can do it. I mean, if you become resourceful and you invest wisely. I really fully believe, if you've got the passion and the desire and you blast as always. Yes, it was. I'm going to give a great big shout out to one of the things that I've invested in, that's IPDTL. You, too, can invest wisely and be a boss. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye, see you next week.  28:36 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to Coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

In this episode, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere dissect the key components of building a robust online presence. From identifying customer pain points to harnessing the power of color psychology in your website design, The BOSSES explore what it takes to convey competence and reliability. We also delve into the subtle yet vital aspects of maintaining an easy-to-navigate, professional website that establishes credibility and trust. Learn how consistent visual cues and coherent storytelling can make or break your brand's effectiveness in today's competitive market. Finally, The BOSSES tackle the nuances of maintaining a consistent brand across social media platforms. We underscore the importance of professionalism and how off-brand or controversial content can jeopardize client relationships. 00:01 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey, hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Real Boss Series. I'm here with my special guest co-host Tom Dheere. Hey, Tom Dheere, how are you?  00:30 - Tom Dheere (Host) Hey Anne, I'm good. How are you? I'm awesome.  00:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Thank you very much.  00:34 - Tom Dheere (Host) You look fabulous today.  00:35 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why thank you? So do you. I love your coloring.  00:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you, it's one of my Hawaii shirts because my wife's from Hawaii, so we go to Hawaii all the time.  00:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) There you go. It's very boss.  00:45 - Tom Dheere (Host) Thank you. I love your blue because it kind of matches the coloring in the background. You look very branded today.  00:51 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Why, thank you. You know I have multiple brands and multiple colors for my brands, and so it's interesting because red is typically my boss brand. But I thought, you know, let's work a little A&G and Guza brand in here as well, which is my blue, my signature blue. So I'm kind of combining them right now. And, yeah, I've been branded for a while yet, but I don't know, tom, what are your thoughts? I think we should talk about branding, because it is a big discussion among voice actors and it's like everybody makes a big deal like oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand, and they and it's like everybody makes a big deal Like, oh my God, I have to like figure out my brand and they stress out over it. And so let's talk about brands. I mean, how important is it for voice actors to brand these days?  01:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Well, my thoughts have evolved on this quite a bit over the past 15, 20 years or so. I used to be of the mind that every voice actor absolutely must brand themselves. They should design a logo, they should pick a font, they should pick a color scheme and then their demos, their business cards, their website, their social media content, all of their outbound marketing content newsletters and things like that should be 100% branded. It should be 100% aligned.  02:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well then, I fit the bill there for you. You're perfect. Okay, you're perfect.  02:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) But over the years when I had that perspective, I was focusing primarily on direct and indirect marketing strategies to get the bulk of my voiceover revenue.  02:20 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I agree, myself included.  02:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) I have representation. I'm on casting sites, but for me, direct and indirect marketing was the place and it's like the old mentality. It's like Anne, why aren't you wearing my glasses? Because they help me see better. So obviously they should help you see better. But gotten a little older, hopefully gotten a little wiser, and just looking at myself and looking at all the students I've had over the years and watching what other successful voice actors do, I don't know if everybody needs to brand themselves.  02:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, gosh Tom, for many years there was no branding, right, there was no internet. Well, I shouldn't say there was no branding, but it wasn't as visible. And so how did voice actors in the 80s stand out?  03:02 - Tom Dheere (Host) They didn't, they just auditioned and booked.  03:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They were managed by their agents, right or managers. And so they didn't have to necessarily brand their businesses. They became known for their voice and their agents were out there kind of branding for them, right.  03:20 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, their reputation was built solely on the quality of their auditions and the quality of the experience when they were in the recording studio working with the clients. And that was it. The value promise was the audition Sure, the value delivery was the recording session. Yeah, platforms on top of that. Most voice actors feel obligated in a way that they have to brand themselves because they have to be on all of these social media platforms and they have to be spewing out content all the time in the hopes that they will catch somebody's attention to stay top of mind to get them into and through the sales funnel and all of that stuff.  04:01 But to your point, if representation was the only casting portal in the industry, no, we wouldn't need to brand. There are online casting sites too pay-to-play sites, voice123, voicescom, vidalgo, what have you? You don't need to brand yourself on there either, because all it's about is the value promise of the audition and the value delivery of the recording session or delivering the files properly formatted, with the proper amount of takes, and you took the direction on the casting notice or whatever. You know what I mean.  04:28 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) What about Fiverr? Just out of curiosity. I know we've had this, I know that's a bad F word but I think it depends on how the platform is marketing you right, or how are people finding out about you right On the platform?  04:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, and it's interesting because Fiverr and Upwork, which are technically online casting sites, they weren't designed as voiceover casting sites like Voice123 and Voicescom, but they seem to be conducive for voiceover casting. There's very little auditioning happening on Fiverr and Upwork.  04:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) People come and look and listen.  04:55 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's direct bookings. So, with that in mind, yeah, your branding actually is very important.  05:01 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Your headshot's very important, I agree.  05:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) Your tagline, the verbiage, how you package and present yourself. Yeah, branding is important.  05:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So then, if you're direct marketing, right, I feel that a brand is very, very important. If you're direct marketing and if people are finding you online, let's say at your website, like for me, tom, and we have different businesses, right, you and I I have multiple brands. I don't have a ton of time to audition, except for my agents, right, which that's a whole different way that I obtain my job, and I don't have any time literally these days to audition on pay-to-plays. However, I do exist on pay-to-plays because I want to make sure that I know the platform so that I can recommend to my students. So for me, my branding is still relevant, I would say, because that's how I get a lot of people that say, oh, the Ann Ganguza brand or Ann, I see you everywhere, and that's good, because that's kind of my purpose.  05:53 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, I have two brands. I have the Tom Dheere the H is silent, but I'm not voice actor brand and then I have the VO strategist brand, and both of them serve different needs. Well, obviously, one for me as a voice actor and then one for me as a voiceover business and marketing consultant and coach and mentor. What's interesting, and tell me, if you have this experience, is that your branding as Ann Gangu's a voice actor greatly informs your reputation and branding as Ann Gangu's a voiceover coach. Because, with a very precious few exceptions, like a Maurice Tobias or a Mary Lynn Wisner, you need to be a boots on the ground, successful, consistently working actor to be taken seriously as a voiceover coach. Absolutely, absolutely.  06:39 So a part of my branding as a VO strategist is go check me out at tomdeercom, listen to my demos, look at my YouTube channel, see all the work that I've done, because the fact that I've done a bunch of e-learning modules is one thing, but the fact that I was the voice of Inspector Gadget in the Inspector Gadget video game last year gives you a lot of street cred. So that attracts certain types of voice actors who want to do that sort of business. And even if they don't. They grew up on Inspector Gadget, so I'm writing the coattails of the brand of Inspector Gadget when I brand myself as Tom Dheere voice actor, because I was Inspector Gadget, which also then feeds into well, if he's able to book work like that, he's competent as a voiceover business and marketing coach. So they all feed into each other.  07:23 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that. You said that you branded on the coattails of another brand and I think that's definitely a strategy. I mean he used to talk about that all the time is that to get credibility? If you are the voice of a brand that is out there and that is heard and seen, then that is your brand right, gaining credibility from another brand, and so it's kind of a strategic partnership. However, I think you can get that strategic partnership. It doesn't necessarily mean like oh, I'm Ann Ganguzza, I have to have blue. That's only a visual part of my brand, that is one part of the encompassing brand when people come to my website. But people if they don't see anything right. So there's a visual part of your brand, there's an audio part of your brand and then there is, I would say, an in-person, physical part of your brand as well that all contributes to who you are and if people decide if they want to work with you or not.  08:20 Right, there's that personality, part of your brand that says I'm reliable, I'm fast, I am accurate. I have the voice that can work with your brand and make it come alive. So there's so many aspects to branding besides, let's say, a website, which is what I think most people think. When they talk about branding, they think, oh, I've got to have that tagline Gosh. I gave up my tagline years ago because it just wasn't pertinent for my particular brand. It just wasn't, and I was out there showing my photograph a long time ago because for me it worked. I felt like people wanted to connect with a person and not necessarily an image of a microphone.  08:59 - Tom Dheere (Host) Sure, it's funny that you say that, because I've been teaching branding for well over 10 years and I've always told my students that branding is telling a story what is the story of you? But also there's usually two ways that you can tell your story as a voice actor from a branding perspective. You can brand your sound or you can brand your personality. So the more distinctive your sound is or the genres that you can do, the easier it is to brand in that direction. If you've got a particularly young voice or particularly deep voice, or if you do movie trailers primarily, or if you do military fiction, audio books exclusively or almost exclusively, it's a lot easier to brand. But the branding of your personality is what is the experience of working with you? So for years I used you as one of my examples of, yes, branding your personality using your tagline are you ready for awesome?  09:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's true. Are you ready for awesome? I like that. I did use that and I haven't used that in a while, so let's talk about that. Tom, tell me, what was it that attracted you to that particular aspect of my brand?  10:06 - Tom Dheere (Host) What attracted me to that is that you were setting expectations of what the experience of working with you was is like. So there's the value promise. Like I said, value promise and value delivery. This is about the value delivery. If you work with me, you're going to have a great experience. You're going to be working with a professional, intelligent, excited, ethical, prepared voice actor. That's what are you ready for. Awesome means to me.  10:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Geez, maybe I'll bring that back, Tom.  10:36 - Tom Dheere (Host) I mean, why not?  10:36 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I love that, I like that it meant something to you and yeah, absolutely, and it's not that I actually got rid of it, tom. Before that one, I had Dream Out Loud. That was my tagline, and I thought Dream Out Loud didn't do anything for me, necessarily because Dream Out Loud was kind of more focused on me rather than my client. Right, in terms of like, are they dreaming out loud? No, they need somebody that's not dreaming, they need somebody that can speak. Their brand, right, and so therefore, are you Ready for Awesome, kind of helps out their predicament in a much better way. So, yeah, actually I think that that's a great brand. I'll have to talk to my web person.  11:15 Your webmaster, business coach my webmaster to maybe bring that back. And it doesn't have to be all over my page, right it can be in certain parts of my page or in, let's say, in my signature file. It could be in a lot of different places, but I like that. You're right. It basically tells people this is what you're going to be working with.  11:32 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, and one of the key aspects of any successful brand, regardless of whatever sector that you're in healthcare, automotive, beverages or whatever is that an effective company is able to identify the pain points of the customer. What do you need, what are you struggling with? And then your branding helps you tell the story of how you can solve their problems, how you can address those pain points, how you can cure what ails them, so to speak. Are you ready for awesome is a great way of letting them know that if you work with me, everything's going to be okay, Everything's going to be taken care of, you're going to have an awesome experience and you're going to get what you need, which are quality audio files delivered on time, properly formatted and that help you tell the story of your company's brand most of the time right.  12:21 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Now I do believe that people visually see that text, they read it, they comprehend it. There's also something to be said for your website in general, and we can have a whole other podcast on websites. But I do believe that, like when I go to purchase something from a website, I have to see that website and feel that I trust it and that the people behind that website have a valuable product and I can purchase that without fear that I'm not going to get that product delivered in a timely and quality manner. And so I assess a lot visually the product by looking at a website. If the website is not constructed in a professional manner, of what standards are today, I hesitate to click and buy. And so I do feel that if you are a voice actor that has a website out there and people happen upon your website, at least have it functionally and visually professional enough so that it instills trust in your potential client, so that they can say oh, okay, this looks safe, right For me.  13:31 I mean, gosh, it's like oh, I buy online all the time. I mean this is like the 21st century, right? We buy online all the time. So again, that place where I buy needs to instill trust in me. And now a quick word from our sponsor, which could be me. Hey bosses, are you looking for even more voiceover resources? Head on over to vopeepscom and take a look at our special Vopeeps VIP VIPs membership. You get access to over 350 hours of on-demand video workshops in addition to free live monthly workouts. Plus, you'll get 15% off each monthly VO Peeps workshop in the future. Sign up now at vopeepscom.  14:12 - Speaker 4 (Host) Hi, this is Debra Elaine Fowler sending a huge shout out to Anne for her VO Boss podcast. I've been listening now since the very first episode six years ago, and I always learn something new. The guests are interesting and Anne brings up topics that maybe I haven't thought about. I find myself researching new topics almost every week. Anne, keep it up, I love what you're doing. And now back to the show.  14:38 - Tom Dheere (Host) The website tells the story of you and of the experience they're going to have as a result of working with you, Because they're immediately. Obviously the first thing that happens as they go to the website is they see the website. Yeah, you know what are the colors that?  14:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) come out?  14:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) What are the fonts Right? How is it organized or laid out? What are the colors? What are the fonts? Is it easy to find your demos?  14:58 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Can I contact this person that's like so important to me?  15:01 - Tom Dheere (Host) Can I contact this person in the way that I want to contact them? Do I want to pick up the phone? Do I want to email them? Do I want to message them on Instagram, or do I want to use their contact form or any of a number of ways? So this tells the story of your competency as a voice actor, and it needs to be consistent. That's why you should be looking up the psychology of color when it comes to establishing a brand. It's like what is the type of voiceover work that you do? How does that reconcile with your personality? How does that reconcile with the needs of the customers that you want to attract? A lot of this stuff is very subconscious or unconscious on the part of voice seekers when they go to your website, but what's there and what isn't there speaks to your brand.  15:43 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely. And there's something to be said, like there's something almost intangible. When I go to a website and I say oh, oh, I like that, Like it's like pretty packaging, right, I mean.  15:52 I like that package, and so that makes me interested to want to find out more, and if the verbiage on the website helps me to find out more and gets me to where I need to be quickly. Because, again, I don't know. I mean, how many people go around just looking at websites to say, oh, that's a pretty website or, oh, I don't like that website. I mean, really there's a purpose, right, people are shopping around going to a website either finding information.  16:18 Maybe you somehow attracted them to get to your website to find out more about you and your brand and your voice. And if they can get that information easily and it seems to speak to you as being a credible, professional, trustworthy business, product right that they can purchase, then I think that really all has a handle on. It's like a part of the sales funnel, right? I feel like your brand is part of the sales funnel.  16:41 - Tom Dheere (Host) It absolutely is, and that also extends onto your social media platforms and the content that you're creating on the social media platform. If you're trying to brand yourself effectively and consistently, the branding on your social media platforms should line up perfectly with what's going on on your website the font, the logo, the color schemes, the banners, the verbiage and the content that comes out. All of this needs to be consistent Verbiage.  17:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom verbiage, and that means if you're on a social media platform and verbiage is coming out of your mouth that isn't necessarily conducive to promoting your brand in a positive way. You might want to think about that. That means if you're going to be controversial or you're going to be spewing verbiage in your social platforms that may be off brand. You might want to consider maybe not doing that or having a completely different brand. I feel like personal brands and voice actor brands are very close.  17:40 It used to be, where, okay, I have a business brand and I'm going to only talk about business on that and I have a personal brand, but I feel like those two brands have really melded together over the years, tom.  17:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) Oh, yes, no, they've completely blurred for a number of reasons. I mean, one reason right now is that if, through your marketing strategies, you've been able to get a voice seeker to go to your social media platforms or to your website, one thing they're trying to determine is are you human?  18:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah or are you an AI? That is slowly becoming more of a consideration for voice seekers, and if you're human, are you a good human.  18:12 - Tom Dheere (Host) And are you a good human there?  18:13 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) can be human actions that are controversial that would potentially harm their brand if they were to align right Strategically. We talked about strategic alignment with brands If they were to align with your brand right, it could hurt their brand.  18:27 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right. That leads me to a great point, Anne, is when it comes to your branding. To be perfectly honest, the vast majority of voice seekers aren't paying any attention to anything we're doing on social media, and they're not paying attention to much that's going on on our website. However, they will vet you. They will check out your brand for the aforementioned AI reason and for exactly what you said because nobody wants to work with a voice actor who is an NDA violator.  18:52 Sure sure, absolutely. And starts talking about auditions that they did for projects that haven't been cast yet.  18:57 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Or negatively about companies that they've worked with.  19:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) Or client questions, whether it's warranted or not.  19:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Oh my gosh, whether it's warranted or not, guys, just don't do that.  19:05 - Tom Dheere (Host) I see, specifically audiobook narrators regularly complaining about the publishers because, oh, I didn't get enough of a pronunciation guide or there were too many spelling errors on this manuscript, and I'm just as they're doing it. I'm like, what are you?  19:16 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) doing yeah yeah, why Because?  19:18 - Tom Dheere (Host) audiobook publishers are the ones that are the most likely to pay attention to your branding and pay attention to your website and pay attention to your social media platform and if you're kvetching about your client like that's a great way to lose a client.  19:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's like anybody complaining about their employer. Right, hr is continually going out online to see if you're making complaints and then that's the first line of fire to get fired if you're speaking negatively. And so even if you think it's private, like in a Facebook group, and it's marked a private group, it's not. Screenshot is like literally a couple of keystrokes away, and even if it says it's private, it's not. We all know things are not private.  20:00 I mean yesterday I happened to be on a family outing at Disney and everything I talked about came up on my Facebook feed just saying so nothing is private. And so really just for your brand's sake, and so I do want to. I know now we've got into the whole what's good for your brand, but let's go back to Tom. If someone is just doing jobs through their agent, is it required that they have a website now and a brand specifically, or maybe not?  20:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) Website yes, brand maybe.  20:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Okay. Maybe, what's on the website then?  20:33 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, well, from a branding perspective logo consistency of font on the logo itself and the tagline and with the verbiage on the website the color scheme that you have established on this logo needs to align with the color scheme that is on the homepage and all the other pages, unless there's a possibility you've branded yourself based on genre or subgenre.  20:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Is this for voice actors who are managed or who have talent, agents only, or is this?  21:00 - Tom Dheere (Host) It's a great question. I can't speak to what voice seekers that work through managers and agents are doing. How much are they vetting the voice actors that are represented by the agents and managers that they're working with? Most of the time they're probably not. It's usually just send me these auditions. We'll pick the person that we think is the best who vocally represents this company brand message.  21:19 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Unless you're well-known, I would say right as a video game, character or an animation, character and then I think, your brand is important online. Right your actions in your social media. I'm thinking Daniel Ross, who recently, you know, is now the voice of Donald Duck. Bob Bergen has the voice of Porky. Pig, I mean and Christina Milizia, who I just interviewed as well on this podcast, and Christina Milizia who?  21:41 I just interviewed as well on this podcast the characters that they represent. She has to be careful. They have to be careful what they do online and also their actions, because a lot of them might go to cons and do autograph signing, and so that's an in-person branding as well, so they have to be very careful about their brand.  21:58 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, there are two groups of voice actors. There's public figures and private figures. Public figures in voiceover are those who do cartoons, video games and audiobooks. Okay, because if you're an audiobook narrator, you're being followed by authors, rights holders and listeners of the audiobooks. Okay, and it's a very public thing because these are very front-facing products audiobooks, cartoon and video game voice actors are also public figures, also just because of the fan base. The fan base really wants to know and loves to adore and follow the voice actors who are the voices of their favorite cartoon and video game characters. Everybody else is kind of clumped into the private voice actors. With the exception of, for me, inspector Gadget, red Dead Redemption and a handful of other things. I'm primarily a private voice actor. So me talking about my e-learning and her explainer experience online, nobody cares, nobody cares that?  22:59 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Tom Dheere. I'll tell you what his e-learning module.  23:03 - Tom Dheere (Host) That HR video he narrated oh for God's sakes. Like nobody does that. Nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, that, nobody does that, nobody cares, nobody cares about that. And yes, your branding should be influenced by that Absolutely. So you want to be careful. So if you're a private voice actor, yeah, don't be an NDA violator. Don't be a client basher. Don't be some religious political whack job.  23:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's all you have to worry about. And even if you're a public figure in a way that you don't think like because I know there are people who are out there that troll. I've been trolled. If you're out there as a coach, as a demo producer, I guess you can say if you've been trolled, you've made it.  23:39 - Tom Dheere (Host) Right, because then, so you actually matter. I matter in a way, but yes, I've been trolled and that's very upsetting, but Tom, I'm sure you've been trolled too, Maybe.  23:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) I don't know if Inspector Gadget has, but I mean Inspector Gadget.  23:51 - Tom Dheere (Host) I only got trolled in that. I'll just put it to you this way. There was one person who hated my performance so much that they took the trailer for the Inspector Gadget video game and replaced my voice with Don Adams, who was the original Inspector Gadget. So You've made it Tom, congratulations actually I'll take that as a proper trolling. There you go.  24:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) So I guess then, in essence, tom, I know you've evolved over the years with your views on branding. You don't know if it's as necessary, or maybe just branding in general has evolved. I still feel like, in this sea of voice actors, if somebody is going to see you online, then brand is important.  24:29 If you're not necessarily online, if maybe you're part-time and hey, there's a lot of amazing talent that we hear every single day on national spots that don't have websites that I don't even know. We don't even know who they are, right, Because they don't need to have that brand. So I tend to agree with you and I think that we have to continually be educated about what's important for your business when it comes to being recognized. Now, what about voice actors that are new to the industry? Is it important that they have a branded website, that they have a tagline? Is it important that they have a headshot?  25:07 - Tom Dheere (Host) Okay, I think at first it's a terrible idea. I think it's a terrible, terrible idea because what drew them to the voiceover industry may not necessarily be what keeps them in the voiceover industry. In other words, they may not be any good at what they want to do and they may turn out to be really good at something that they don't want to do. So from a branding perspective-.  25:27 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) They don't know their brand yet.  25:28 - Tom Dheere (Host) They don't know their branding because they don't know what they can book. So if you're early in your voiceover journey, us bosses are taking a little pressure off. You Don't worry about branding yet Book gigs.  25:38 See what the voiceover industry tells you are the types of genres and subgenres in the markets that you can book Then you can build a brand around that because if that's something that's bankable, if people are willing to give you money to say this kind of voiceover work, then you can build a reputation on that because, like we said, branding, storytelling, reputation all of these things are intertwined. So just to have a basic, nondescript website with your contact information, basic information about you and downloadable demos which is the most important thing to have on a website- yes, absolutely.  26:12 Then let the branding come about you and downloadable demos, which is the most important thing to have on a website. Yes, absolutely. Then let the branding come to you and then you can and you're talking visual branding. Visual branding.  26:17 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yes, I'm going to say vocal branding. I'm very much into vocal branding, depending on what genre you study with me, right. So vocally branding, that's something that you can have a good coach help you with, because they're going to help and you will discover that vocal branding in the beginning.  26:34 For whatever genre you're studying Now, that doesn't mean that you won't evolve over time right To have more vocal brands. I think you can have multiple brands that are related, but you cannot, like, if you're a young person and you sound young right, for the entirety of the time that you are younger, for a few years at least, you're going to be more of that youthful sound, probably if that's how you've been vocally branded. So I think if you're new it helps to have a good coach to help vocally brand you. But visual branding and you're right, tom, as you go you'll find out. What do you get hired for? Right, I never thought about medical and all of a sudden I started getting hired for medical and now, oh well, that makes sense now because I used to work in the medical field. So you know something I didn't know before.  27:21 - Tom Dheere (Host) Yeah, what a great coach like you can help people with is what celebrities do you sound like? What sectors of the voiceover industry can you get work in? You know there's commercials in general, but then there's automotive in particular, or home and family products, or alcohol, or boots you know what I mean or cowboy boots or whatever that sort of thing. Anne can definitely help you with that. And then when you are positioning yourself, and then when Anne helps you make your demo, it can help with that vocal positional branding. So the spots that you would do on a demo with Anne would align with the celebrities that you can sound like. Not imitations, but just like reminiscent of.  27:58 You know what I mean. I'll give you an example For me right now. For the past year or so it's been Ryan Reynolds. I've been booking spots because I have a Ryan Reynolds sound.  28:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, you do.  28:08 - Tom Dheere (Host) A voice actor just connected with me on LinkedIn and said do you know that you sound like Ryan Reynolds and I don't have that branding anywhere on my website. I'm seriously considering doing it because these casting notices that tend to have the Ryan Reynolds celebrity reference I'm booking. So that may be something I would need to consider. But again, that's the industry. At this point in my journey, that's the industry telling me, because Ryan Reynolds wasn't a factor when I started in the 90s. But if I was starting now and working with Anne, she's got a good enough ear to know that like, yeah, you got kind of a Ryan Reynolds sound. Maybe we should get kind of these kind of quirky, fun, cute little spots on your demo to showcase that particular sound.  28:50 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely Well. That was a very involved branding conversation but I love it, I love it. I feel like we still could go on, and, on, and on. But, thank you, tom. So much for that. Guys, I'm going to give a big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too, can network and connect like bosses like Tom and myself. Find out more at IPdtlcom. Have an amazing week, guys, and we will see you next week. Thanks so much.  29:20 - Intro (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-rev, revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

Anne welcomes Heidi Rew, commercial voice actor and co-founder of Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. Heidi shares her journey from radio to voiceover and offers insights on booking jobs and finding success in the industry. The BOSSES emphasize the importance of perseverance and training, highlighting their own experience of steady climbs in the industry. They also discuss the qualities of a good coach and the value of personalized instruction. They advise newcomers to discover their unique voice and niche through training and collecting feedback. The BOSSES share their thoughts on overcoming self-doubt and the importance of perseverance in the voice acting industry. They emphasize the need to uncover personal insecurities and fears in order to succeed in business The BOSSES also discuss the importance of demos, online presence, and easy accessibility for potential clients. Anne (00:01.142) Hey everyone, welcome to the V.O. Boss podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am so excited to have very special guest, Heidi Rew, joining us to the show. Hey Heidi, yay! Oh, awesome. So a little bit of information about Heidi for the bosses who are not familiar with her. She started her career on air in radio, but was introduced to voiceover by her coworker who eventually turned into her husband. Heidi Rew (00:12.922) Hey, Anne! So glad to be here. Anne (00:29.922) She is mainly a commercial voice actor and has voiced national TV commercials for Jiffy Lube, Secrets Resorts, Redfin, Kohl's, Danimals, and Baker's Chocolate, excuse me, and probably many, many more. And about eight years ago, she and her husband started the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, a training and recording studio. Heidi, thank you so much for being with us today. It's so exciting. Heidi Rew (00:54.092) Oh, I am so excited to be here, Ann. And we already talked, Ann already talked, she was our guest on the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio podcast. And it was so good, we had to do a part two, which is the first time that's ever happened. So yes, I'm so excited to be here, Ann. Anne (01:09.166) Well, thank you so much. And I'm actually going to just turn around and ask you some of the same questions that you asked me. For those bosses who are not familiar with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio and Heidi, why don't you start off by talking a little bit about yourself and what that journey was like going from radio to VO? Heidi Rew (01:15.77) Okay. Heidi Rew (01:25.654) Yeah. Yep. I always wanted to go into radio. That was kind of my career goal. And this handsome coworker came in my studio one day and was like, hey, do you do voiceover? Because I could listen to your voice all day. And I know. He always says that's like his one and only line. But it worked. And he told me all about the voiceover industry, kind of got me going. Anne (01:44.754) What a line. I love it. I love it. Heidi Rew (01:55.554) And I really did think, oh, this will just be something that I do on the side. And then five, six years after that, things were changing at the radio station. And at that time, then Mike and I were married. And so to find on-air jobs in another city for both of you is really, really almost impossible. And so. Anne (02:13.527) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:20.19) things had just changed and Mike was like, why don't you just quit and just do voiceover and on camera stuff full time? And so that's what I did. And there we go. Anne (02:28.658) And there you go. Now, when we were talking before, we were discussing about agents, and it took you four years to book a job with your first Atlanta agent. Let's talk about that journey, because I'll tell you, for me, when I started, I'm gonna date myself, I literally, I was working for four years before I even thought. Heidi Rew (02:36.059) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (02:39.622) Yep. Mm-hmm. Anne (02:53.406) about an agent because back then we didn't really have like Facebook groups or there was there wasn't a lot of ways to communicate with other people in the industry, which I believe is one of the reasons why you might have started your studio as well to like see people face to face and Heidi Rew (02:57.088) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:07.075) Yeah. Heidi Rew (03:10.734) Yes, totally, and have that community. Yeah, I had a great agent here in Atlanta. And I would get auditions and everything, and just wouldn't book. And I thought, I really suck at this, obviously. And I would ask my agent, I said, you know, gosh, why? Anne (03:12.939) Yeah. Anne (03:18.091) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:22.903) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:30.026) Richard, it was Richard Hutchison management who's, he's retired at this point, but I said Richard, why haven't you dropped me at this point? You know, and he said Heidi, because you're doing good auditions. It just sometimes takes time. Just keep going, keep going. And I did. And then year five was when I started booking a lot. It's when I booked a national spot that ran three years, gave a sag health insurance for three years. Anne (03:32.215) Mm-hmm. Anne (03:41.91) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Anne (03:54.754) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (03:56.162) So it was just one of those things where it just took some time. And I had some other clients on the sides from self-marketing and a smaller agency that I was with in Florida. But yeah. Anne (04:03.817) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:07.862) Now do you think that it had, I mean, was there, was it possible that maybe you were needing feedback? I'm assuming four years your performance, you know, was improved, you know, and that is, takes a lot of resilience sometimes. I mean, I remember my early career as well too, and it was difficult. I mean, when you didn't get feedback or you didn't book, it was kind of like, oh my gosh, now. Heidi Rew (04:16.995) Oh yeah. Heidi Rew (04:21.658) Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:24.986) Mm-hmm. Anne (04:36.734) Now what do I do? I mean, do I even belong in this industry? I mean, did you ever run into any of those feelings? Yeah. Heidi Rew (04:39.154) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (04:42.794) Oh gosh, yeah. I mean, I would tell Mike, like, you liar. No, I'm just kidding. Like, what in the world? I don't have a good voice, obviously. But he really was always, he's always been an encourager of mine. But a big part of it was, you know, I was doing radio full time, full time. And also, you know, I was on air, so I was doing like events on the weekend. I mean, it was busy. And so I really. Anne (04:47.524) Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Anne (05:02.187) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:09.322) voiceover was a side thing. I didn't do the kind of training that I needed to do to get to that level. I was very lucky to even get on with Richard at the very beginning because, I mean, you know, all I had kind of was Mike's training and tutelage. And that is why I say to so many people, too, that, you know, one, you never know how long it's going to take to book, so keep going. But also, right, but also, Anne (05:11.106) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:16.514) Mm. Anne (05:24.76) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:32.142) Right? For that overnight success. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (05:36.982) you do need to train and I, you know, if I had trained more, who knows that four years could have been shortened to a much shorter time frame. Anne (05:41.559) Mm-hmm. Anne (05:45.91) Well, you know, it's so interesting because, you know, I just was looking at your website again, and your studio offers, gosh, everything. And you have a team of coaches that basically covers every genre. You know, I think anything that anybody ever would want to do in voiceover, you guys cover at your studio. So let's talk about coaching because we had a discussion about it on your podcast. What is it that you feel Heidi Rew (05:56.08) Yeah. Anne (06:17.387) key qualities or qualifications of a good coach and what you look for your own team and for yourself. Heidi Rew (06:19.407) Yeah. Heidi Rew (06:23.83) Yeah, well, you know, first of all, one of the things that we really look for is for people that have a heart to teach and that aren't just in there to make extra money or to be known that they really care about the students that they're trying to reach. And then a big part of that is we Anne (06:33.996) Mm. Heidi Rew (06:48.898) With Atlanta Voice over Studio, we have three values that we run our decisions through and really have just kind of been the compass for our business. And one of those values is grace. And Mike and I define that as meeting people where they're at. And so we always talk about that with the instructors of like, you have no idea where somebody is gonna come in, whether they walk through the door or they appear on the screen. Anne (07:03.691) I love that. Anne (07:12.106) Yeah. Heidi Rew (07:14.458) You know, you have no idea where they're at. And so our goal is to find out where they're at and how do we get them at least one step closer to their goal, if not two steps. But that's the goal. It's like really meeting people where they're at, which was huge during COVID. Like that, oh my gosh, that was so helpful to remember. So those are some of the biggest things and just being able to really personalize the... Anne (07:23.086) Mm-hmm. Anne (07:30.878) Oh my goodness, yes. Heidi Rew (07:43.01) the instruction to each person, which kind of goes with that meeting people where they're at. It's just not everybody responds to the same type of technique or you know what I mean? Like you really have to find what works for that person, you know? Anne (07:45.205) Mm. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Anne (07:48.938) Sure. Yeah. Anne (07:54.414) True. Very true. Anne (08:00.702) Yeah, and it's very much a personal journey, I think. Because it is a creative journey, and I do feel that that. Heidi Rew (08:04.868) Yes. Anne (08:10.934) Gosh, everybody reacts to it differently. Everybody learns in a different way. And I know that just from my years of teaching in front of the class, that you do have all different types of students. And I think it's even more important to meet them where they are when you're talking about something as a creative endeavor that is so deeply personal to them. Because any, you know, any... Heidi Rew (08:20.804) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:28.098) Yes. Yeah. Anne (08:34.218) any frustration or any kind of like, you know, roadblock can be really devastating. And that can, you know, that can affect performance like this. And so I think it's so important that you have teachers who care that I love that, that you have, I mean, that's where I always talk about. Heidi Rew (08:41.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (08:45.57) Oh my gosh, yeah. Yes. Anne (08:54.238) My students with eLearning, you've got to be that teacher that has a heart that cares. And that's important when you're... It's a journey you're taking these students on. And it's a delicate journey. Yeah. Heidi Rew (08:58.364) Mm-hmm, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:03.962) Yeah. Yes. Because your voice, that is really important. And there have been some people that come in that have been told certain things about their voice or believed certain things about their voice that are not right or not correct. And to be able to show them, like, hey, you actually have power in your voice. And you thought that maybe you didn't, or you thought that it was. Anne (09:15.547) Mm-hmm. Anne (09:24.438) Mm. Anne (09:31.303) Yeah, yeah. Heidi Rew (09:33.65) You know, some of the biggest ones that we've had come through the studio is like I always Was kind of told that I was weak because of the way that I sounded Man that does that does something? Yeah That is hard. So to be able to help them discover that and how do you? How do you find that empowerment through your own voice? You know, that's That's really crucial Anne (09:42.374) Mmm. That's a hard, that's hard to take. Yeah, gosh. Mm-hmm. Anne (09:56.844) Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So then let's talk a little bit about then as they're on their journey discovering, like where, you know, thinking about where do they feel the most passion or joy or where does their voice fit in the industry? What advice can you give, let's say people just entering in this industry in order to find their niche? And I don't know if like, I think niches can be ever evolving, I don't know about you, but you know. Heidi Rew (10:15.182) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (10:23.458) Yeah. Heidi Rew (10:27.939) Oh, 100%. Yeah. Anne (10:28.994) How do they discover that? What's your best advice for that? Heidi Rew (10:32.894) So one of the things that we do that's really important, but you can do this whether you're working with a private coach or whatever, but we have one of our foundational training is called the Beginner VoiceOver Intensive, and it's a three month thing. It has like this curriculum that goes with it. So one of the weeks that we do, you go into the booth to record and you do just a bunch of different spots that are in different types of tones and specs and everything. Anne (10:57.719) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:00.022) And then your class and the instructor will write down what they feel like is your natural three top reads. Just you as yourself and that you can just, as you're speaking, it just comes so naturally. You don't have to push it or force it or anything. And then they also write down descriptions about your voice. So maybe it's like, you know, Anne (11:09.158) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (11:17.614) Sure. Heidi Rew (11:27.314) grandfather that always has a funny joke. You know what I mean? Like it's like that warmth caring but also he can be funny and you know what I mean witty. So they write down all that stuff so then that person that comes out of the booth they have all this vocabulary of some of their strengths with their voice right which is kind of just the step one of figuring out like where do I fit you know what is that uniqueness that I can bring to the table. Anne (11:30.955) Mm-hmm. Anne (11:43.571) Yeah. Anne (11:50.812) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (11:55.334) So you can do that even with like a private coach. They can help you discover that. But another thing that's really important, I think, is just be a collector of data, you know, yourself. And because it's, we forget so quickly when people give us like specific encouragement or things of like, oh, I really love, you know. Anne (12:08.289) Yeah. Anne (12:18.698) Mm. Heidi Rew (12:22.294) the way that you've got that texture in your voice. It kind of feels like a warm blanket or whatever. Anytime somebody says something about your voice, write it down. Collect that data because then you're going to have this whole data set of stuff that you're like, oh, this is me. This is who I am. This is what I can bring to the table. And then when you do that, then you can kind of figure out, okay, what is, what are the specific genres that maybe Anne (12:25.08) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:32.911) Mmm, great idea. Anne (12:42.19) Mm-hmm. Anne (12:50.379) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (12:51.627) that I would fit in the best. So, yeah. Anne (12:53.214) Yeah, that would cater to those qualities. Yeah, it's so hard to assess. It's kind of like, I think that's why self-direction is so difficult, right? I mean, you have to assess where you're at by yourself. And I think that I love the fact that you have a whole class where you have other ears involved in the process and other people helping, saying, well, this is what I hear. And it can really help you to help define where your space can be and where your niche can be. Heidi Rew (13:05.437) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:16.315) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:22.826) and also where you might want to grow. Because I think there are a lot of times somebody will say something about your voice that you didn't expect. Like somebody will say, oh my God, that's a great character. And I'm like, but me? I've never thought about doing character work or animation work or that kind of a thing. So I think that the process with a great coach or another set of ears that can help you. Heidi Rew (13:22.894) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (13:33.818) Mmm. Heidi Rew (13:44.409) Mm-hmm. Anne (13:46.382) to establish that can really help you to grow and then can help you to develop your ear. I think there's a whole science to developing an ear, which is it doesn't, that doesn't happen overnight. Heidi Rew (13:49.134) Yes. Heidi Rew (13:52.63) Yes. Yeah. Heidi Rew (13:58.006) No, I still feel like I'm fine tuning my ear. And as things change, you know what I mean? Like I've grown up learning that polished sound and that polished sound in commercial is just like, so many people don't want the polished sound. And it is so hard to like make sure that I'm hearing the right things, yeah. Cause I wanna default to that, so. Anne (14:01.01) Yeah. Oh, right. Yeah. Anne (14:06.951) Mm-hmm. Anne (14:13.866) Yeah, yeah. Not be perfect. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's so interesting. So outside of performance, right, what would you say are key factors for any boss out there in order to grow their business? What sorts of things outside of, of course, keeping their performance, you know, and I say coaching and training all the time, but what else is important for a successful business? Heidi Rew (14:44.71) Yeah. So personally for me, I am all about relationships. That has been one of the things that has helped me create a sustainable full-time voiceover career. It really is. Not only do I seek out relationships and I don't seek them out for like, oh, what can you give me? But I have the mentality of like, give more than you can, more than you get. Anne (14:51.531) Mmm. Anne (15:06.164) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:14.375) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (15:14.682) But I just think that the more relationships that I have and the more people that I know, the more potential opportunity is gonna come my way, because of people that they work with, people that they know, they like and they trust. And so I am really a big proponent on creating those relationships and maintaining those relationships as best as possible over the longterm. And that has been... Anne (15:24.502) Mm. Mm-hmm. Anne (15:28.415) Mm-hmm. Anne (15:38.168) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Heidi Rew (15:41.654) That has been one of the biggest things that during times where things aren't, I'm not booking as many commercials or whatever, that those clients come back. It's just like, it feels like magic. Yes. Anne (15:53.098) right, in those lulls. Because I think the biggest difference, right, in our businesses is that, you know, as opposed to it, because I worked in the corporate world, you know, I expected that paycheck and got that paycheck every other week. And now all of a sudden, we've got, you know, our own business, which, ooh, now we got to hustle. We got to go get that business. We have to nurture those relationships. And we have to sustain, which I think you said the word sustainability, which I really love, because over the years, I mean, my gosh. Our overnight success, which for me has been how many years? Like 10, something like that. I mean, it's been sticking with it. Talk to me a little bit because you've been in the industry for a long time. What is it that you say, what would you say is key to success in terms of having a career that can continually, I guess, evolve along with the times and be sustained for a long time? Heidi Rew (16:26.769) Right. Heidi Rew (16:30.811) Yeah. Heidi Rew (16:46.61) Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I want to share really quick this, I don't know if you've ever read James Clear's Atomic Habits book. It's so good. But he gives an example of bamboo. And bamboo, if you've ever seen, there's a bamboo forest here in Atlanta that's on this beautiful hike. And it's just so gorgeous. It's so tall and everything. Well, bamboo, when they first are planted, you don't see hardly anything for five years. Anne (16:55.398) I have not. Anne (17:04.96) Mm-hmm. Anne (17:15.467) Mmm. Heidi Rew (17:15.598) and then all of a sudden within six weeks, they shoot up like, I don't know how, I'm gonna say 90 feet, that's not true. You can fact check me on that if we have fact check. Anyways, it's something along those lines, very, very tall, in about six weeks. And the reason why is because they develop such a strong root system. Anne (17:23.607) That's tall. That's tall. Anne (17:34.461) Mmm Heidi Rew (17:35.314) that that's what they're doing in that five years. So you don't even see you're like, what's going on? Nothing's going on. And actually a lot is going on so that way they can stay strong for years and years. So that's part of it is, I think, you know, creating a good foundation. But I think the other part and I think this is really true and I don't I can't give anybody a certain like applicable thing to do to discover this. But the problem about. Anne (17:42.122) Wow, yeah, I love that. Heidi Rew (18:04.558) becoming a voice talent, especially if you're in another, you know, job or whatever, is that it's all on you to do every, you are the business, right? And sometimes the biggest hindrance to growth is ourselves and things that we find ourselves doing, you know. For me, I, one, I want people to like me. I want to do a really good job. Like I don't ever want to not do a good job, obviously. Anne (18:14.058) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Anne (18:21.07) Mm-hmm. Anne (18:32.973) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (18:34.886) And I can get really caught up on my performance and it just makes me want to go I'm done. This is too much I want to quit well that has nothing to do with my business. It has nothing to do with numbers It has nothing to do with data. It's all on me my own Insecurities my own you know fears about things so I think that The more that I'm able to uncover things about myself like little hiccups that I put my own way Anne (18:45.27) Mmm. Heidi Rew (19:01.99) actually the better my business is, you know, and it's just it's easier to not have to face those. I think when you are in another business where there's a lot of other people coming to your aid, you know, and being able to do things and, you know, make up for your weaknesses and everything. Anne (19:12.147) Oh yeah, absolutely. Anne (19:20.01) You know, it's such a thing when we talk about, you know, having moments of doubt and wanting to give up and wanting to quit. I mean, you know, self-sabotage. I mean, we talk about that quite a bit. I mean, what can you, what's your best advice? What can you say to those bosses out there that are just, they're like frustrated. I, you know, I'm not booking any work. I can't continue to, you know, fund. Heidi Rew (19:32.486) Yeah. Anne (19:47.334) this career if I'm not making any money at it. Because that just happens quite a bit. I hear that a lot from talent. Heidi Rew (19:54.83) Yeah, of course, of course. I heard there's a wonderful psychologist, Angela Duckworth. She's written books and everything. And she said something that I will never forget. And this one thing will help so much. She said, don't quit on a bad day. If you're having a bad day and you want to quit, do not quit on that day. Now, if you have a great day and you just booked a great thing and you still want to quit, OK. Anne (20:11.906) Mmm. Heidi Rew (20:24.39) Then quit, because you know that it is, it's not the challenges that are coming your way, but it's just the actual job itself. But if it's those challenges and those hard days, push through, because I mean, there are, I still have days like that, and I'm how long into my career? Like, it's crazy. And you think, and I think. Anne (20:41.578) Right? Isn't that true? Like, and we've been in this forever, right? And we still have days. Heidi Rew (20:49.314) If people looked at it, you're like, but you're making a great full-time income from this job. And there are still days that I want to quit. And I just think, OK, you know what? I don't quit on a bad day. And then also, sometimes I do quit just for the day. You know, I'm like, Anne (20:54.442) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:02.879) I like that. Don't quit on a bad day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I like that. I'm quitting for the day. Heidi Rew (21:10.046) I am, I'm either burnt out or I've got just too much. I need to quit for today. I need to go on a walk. I need to do something else for my mental health. And then tomorrow, jump back in. Anne (21:12.607) Mm-hmm. Anne (21:23.102) Yeah, I like that. So what are some important tools that you would recommend for voice actors in order to further their career? Heidi Rew (21:34.822) So I will say that I have had a CRM since I started, but let me tell you, this CRM is, I mean, it's Google Sheets. Like that was my CRM for years. And I honestly, and yeah, and same, I'm literally right before we got on here, I've been trying. Anne (21:42.145) Mmm. Anne (21:49.334) Yeah, yeah, yeah. My name is Google, too. That was my CRM. It actually still is. OK. Ha, ha. Heidi Rew (22:01.382) to migrate all of my clients over to Voice Over View. Because listen, my system works for me. I get it. The only problem is a search function. I don't like that because I love to be able to go, I don't have a great memory. And so I mean, I just had a session where I booked a job. And the guy was like, hey, Heidi, we worked together years ago on this. And I'm like, ugh. Anne (22:05.011) Uh huh, uh huh. Anne (22:08.992) Yes. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:28.654) So I'm typing in word war, you know what I mean? Like who did I, what was this? And I found it, it was fine, and I have all my notes there, but I really do need to be able to quickly search things. Because two, if you've been in this business, you probably are the same way for a long time. The people that are at one company that you worked with years ago, they may be at a completely different company. And so you need to be able to reference things and search things. Anne (22:29.559) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. Anne (22:40.162) quickly get to it. Mm-hmm. Anne (22:50.122) Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (22:56.618) So that CRM says no matter what you do, have a way to track your clients. Have a way to track your clients. And don't get frustrated if it's not perfect or whatever, but just start doing it. Start putting those notes in there. Because again, relationships, that's so big. And if you get to the point where you're booking a ton, it's really hard to keep track. I know it sounds so weird, but it's just like, I can't. Anne (23:03.263) Yeah, that's yeah. Anne (23:22.592) Yeah. Heidi Rew (23:23.138) Remember this the guy that I was talking to about his kids softball game that weekend that I would love to mention to him You know in the follow-up email And so you really so that's that would be my first tool for sure and then the second tool to be honest with you and I would say maybe you can't do this at the very beginning of your career, but a bookkeeper Anne (23:29.558) Mm-hmm. Anne (23:49.338) Oh gosh, I'm right there with you. Right there with you. I say over and over again, my accountant is the best investment I ever made in my business. Yep. Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (23:53.422) I mean, and I- Heidi Rew (23:59.126) 100% I agree. I agree. I mean, I, when I was learning QuickBooks, I mean, I remember crying at the table in front of my CPA and accountant, like I was like, I just, I didn't make, make it make sense, you know. It was so, so hard. And so it is, oh my gosh. Anne (24:08.862) Oh god, I know. Anne (24:19.486) And it's tedious too. It's not, if it doesn't bring you joy, outsource it. That's what I say. Ha ha. Heidi Rew (24:25.63) And do you like reconciling? Because I hate it. I hate it and it is the easiest thing. It's like, come on. Anne (24:28.174) No, I hate it. I hate it with a passion, but my accountant loves it. I mean, that's why they're an accountant for a career. They love numbers, for the most part. Yeah, I can't stand it. Yeah. Heidi Rew (24:35.522) Exactly. Oh my gosh. I hate it. I would just dread it. I would put it off and then all of a sudden at the end of the year I have to reconcile like months and I'm like okay. Anne (24:45.218) And I've had my accountant, I want to say, for a good eight years or so. She knows me so well. She knows my business so well, which is really wonderful. And she's not anywhere near me. So we use QuickBooks online. And literally, the two of us can meet once a week or every other week. Heidi Rew (24:49.654) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (24:57.922) Yeah. Anne (25:02.13) to kind of go over things and she can generate numbers for me. She does my taxes. I mean my taxes I don't even have to prep anything. That's the cool thing is that you know before it was like Oh my god tax season was just you know the end of the year would come and I'd be like Oh god, I've got to get everything together And I've got to somehow figure out how to do and QuickBooks keeps updating and you know It's like trying to make things simpler, but I don't like it and so it's just like I don't want to spend time Yes Heidi Rew (25:09.186) Right. Heidi Rew (25:17.529) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:25.654) Yeah. So what we're saying is don't quit on a bad day or on tax day because it can get better. Anne (25:32.062) Yes, or on tax day. I can't tell you though how wonderful it was to have taxes done, you know, so. Quickly, I mean, literally, I just said, hey, it's April. Are we all set? She goes, yeah, I'll have your numbers tomorrow. Literally, it was like, oh, god, I didn't have to really organize anything. Every time I would get something in the mail, my forms, I would just forward them to her. She had it, and it was just, boom, she was able to do it. And it was wonderful. So those are some good business tools, a CRM and an accountant. Anything else? What about, let's talk about, Heidi Rew (25:40.728) Yeah. Heidi Rew (25:51.492) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:02.906) Yes. Yeah. Anne (26:10.364) What about demos? I mean, I consider a demo a portfolio of your product, and your product is your voice. Let's talk about demos. How important are they these days? There's been some discussion out there about how important really is the demo. I mean, isn't the audition more important? What do you think? Heidi Rew (26:11.252) Yeah. Heidi Rew (26:16.182) Yes. Yeah. Let's talk about. Heidi Rew (26:22.734) Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think that the demo is still important for a lot of different reasons. I mean, one, if you do want to get on with an agent, you need a good demo. And it needs to be really, really good. Anne (26:38.518) Yeah, kinda need a demo. Because you can't audition at every second of the day. And your demo is kind of there as the representative voice of you when you're not available to audition at the very second that a client might want to hear your voice. Heidi Rew (26:45.187) right. Heidi Rew (26:50.342) Right. Yeah. Plus, I think that being able to be ready for a demo, and I'm speaking more, I will say I'm not an expert on a lot of the demos, but commercial demo, you know, we do at Atlanta VoiceOver Studio. We let everybody else do all the other stuff. But also, that's kind of your way of going, I'm ready to do this. Like, as a talent, I feel like when Anne (27:06.647) Mm-hmm. Anne (27:16.63) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:21.426) to do a commercial demo, then it also shows to you, like you need to be able to, it's kind of like just showing your work, like I'm ready, look, and here's what I can do, yeah. You know, we, so we actually, we used to have like a long wait list for our demos, and now we hardly, we don't have a wait list, and part of it is because we put all these like barriers for people. Anne (27:29.598) Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Here's my work, yeah. Anne (27:40.279) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (27:46.394) before they did their demo. So I think people are scared. They're like, oh gosh, there's a lot of work to get to that. But we're like, well, you know what? That's fine. We're not out to be a demo factory. Anne (27:48.125) Mmm. Anne (27:55.606) Well, I kind of really respect that because, you know what I mean? It's one of those things where nobody will ever come and say, well, you guys are just a demo mill. And that there are prerequisites. I mean, I always put a big, huge disclaimer saying, I'm not gonna produce a demo if you're not ready because you need to be able to replicate that sound. I mean, and so I do feel demos are an important tool. Heidi Rew (28:04.974) No. Heidi Rew (28:09.185) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:14.455) Right. Heidi Rew (28:19.042) Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (28:25.488) Yes. Anne (28:25.99) for a business. What else? What about, I mean, I feel like every voice actor needs to have an online presence. Website slash social media slash... Heidi Rew (28:32.994) I 100% agree with that. Yes, you need to have a website. So with Atlanta Voice Over Studio, we have these industry pro workouts where we'll bring in agents or creative directors or casting directors or whatever. I've had several people that have been our industry pro that have said, you know what? We wanted to book somebody. Anne (28:45.329) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (28:55.586) We couldn't find them. Or they're like, I love this voice, and then we couldn't find them. They had no website. We couldn't search for them. You need to be searchable these days. You need to be searchable. Anne (28:57.402) Ah, interesting. Mm-hmm, yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a wonderful, yeah, I love that you brought that up because I mean, I host workouts as well with agents and casting directors and yeah, an online presence, a website, and a way to get to your demo or a sample that can be downloaded and passed around. Heidi Rew (29:20.23) Yes. Yeah. Anne (29:23.73) I think I can't tell you the amount of times I've gone to a website and you can't download their demo or there's not an easy way to get in touch with them. Like where's the contact information or there's a form somebody has to fill out. And I'm like I just really give me an email address or a phone number or you know so that I can I can get in touch quickly because you don't want to make it too hard for somebody to get in touch with you and everything. But I'm afraid to maybe post my phone number to for spam. I'm like really? Like I mean you're a business. You're a business. Heidi Rew (29:32.203) Yes. Heidi Rew (29:38.312) I know, yeah. Heidi Rew (29:44.343) Right. Heidi Rew (29:50.706) I have my number, phone number up there, I know. I agree, I agree. Yeah. Anne (29:54.826) a phone number or some way to get in touch with you. I mean, I will say that I literally, this is on a personal note, there have been some vendors, some very large vendors that have foregone phone support and gone completely digital where they'll have like a chat bot on their website, which I think is fine. But when you've got those problems or those questions, or you need to contact them for, you know, something that isn't covered by their chat bot, Heidi Rew (30:09.873) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:17.967) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (30:23.247) Yeah. Anne (30:24.31) Being able to contact somebody either in a Zoom, a video meeting or a phone call is really, really helpful. And a lot of companies I know to save money have foregone that tech support or that phone support. And I will say right now, I don't know if that's gonna last very long because there are always those conditions where people need to get in touch with you, like quickly. Heidi Rew (30:31.776) Yeah. Heidi Rew (30:39.067) Hmm. Heidi Rew (30:49.154) Yeah. And this is for vendors. No voice talent have done it, right? Or. Anne (30:52.96) Yeah. Well, I always, I mean, I make sure that people can get in touch with me in any which way. I'm like, here's my email, here's a phone number, here's a Zoom link, here's a Source Connect link, here's an IPDTL link. Go ahead, get in touch with me. And I deal with spam. Yeah, I deal with spam, you know, and it's just, it's just it. I mean, there's lots of spam protection filters in place. So for me, I would rather have somebody be able to get in touch with me because gosh, they might want to hire me. But. Heidi Rew (30:58.926) Right. Yeah. I agree. Heidi Rew (31:08.546) I know. I even put it on my social accounts too. Heidi Rew (31:14.358) Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep. Heidi Rew (31:20.218) Yeah, of course. Do you think that it matters what type of genre you're into? Because I know commercials, I mean, they move so fast. I lost a job just the other weekend because I couldn't do it. I literally had Lasik surgery, so I couldn't get it done. But they needed it right then and there. And I couldn't do it. But I couldn't do it. Anne (31:30.391) They do. Oh, all the time, because you can't respond in time. Mm-hmm. Anne (31:40.698) Yeah, yeah. Anne (31:45.854) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I know if I can't contact somebody, if they don't get back to me right away, I'm like, well, fine, I guess you don't want the work. I mean, sure, you don't want my business, that's fine. I'll just go find somebody that does. So, gosh, so what's next for you and the Atlanta VoiceOver Studio? What's in your future? Heidi Rew (31:47.822) So that's another reason why I'm like my phone numbers everywhere and Heidi Rew (32:01.102) Yeah. Yep. Heidi Rew (32:07.954) Gosh, honestly, some potentially big changes. But not, yeah, I don't even know if it's, so the place that we rent, the lease is up in October. And our original plan was to buy something. There's just not a lot available in Atlanta right now that's the size that we need. And Anne (32:15.905) Ooh, sounds exciting. Anne (32:24.322) Mm-hmm. Anne (32:34.064) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (32:36.534) and stuff so we'll probably move spaces. So that's a big thing, that'll be a move in October. And yeah, so I don't know, we're gonna have to change some things. To be honest with you, the studio has been wonderful, it's grown so much. I mean, we're about to celebrate eight years this summer, which is crazy. Anne (32:42.117) Ooh, that's a big thing. Anne (32:56.622) Mm-hmm. Wow, that's fantastic. Heidi Rew (33:02.198) But it's been a lot on Mike and I. So it may even be changes of like we fine tune things or we shrink some of the things that we offer, to be honest with you, because it's a lot of work on our part. And we try and take the weekends off, but you know, we don't take a paycheck either from the studio. And so that's been like, ugh. Yeah, I know you do. I know. Anne (33:04.579) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:09.403) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:14.034) Yeah. Do you have a day off? Anne (33:19.314) Okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you what is funny. I don't have a studio and I work six and a half days a week. So, and I really try not to because you're right. I think for my own creative mindset and health, it's important to have that refresh time. So. Heidi Rew (33:32.964) Yeah. I know. Well, and let me ask you this too, because this is something that I think we've experienced is like we, Mike and I love to give to people. And that's been the thing with Atlanta VoiceOver Studio, but if you keep giving and giving and giving, it's really easy to get burned out. And you're just like, I... Anne (33:43.8) Mm-hmm. Anne (33:54.95) Yeah, it is. It is. Heidi Rew (33:57.03) wasn't able to fill up and we recognize that too with like it like COVID was really hard going through all of that and then coming out of it and yeah I you know it yeah. Anne (34:05.281) Yeah. It is hard, it is hard. And I know I did that with Vio Peeps for a long, long time. I mean, you give, you give, you give. Vio Boss, this podcast is one of those, I wanted to give back. And if you're not careful, it will burn you out. It is one of those things. And I thought, well, maybe I'll give up the Vio Peeps and it'll just be Vio Boss. And I couldn't do that, because I don't know, I liked my bird, I liked my little Peeps bird. And I love my Vio Boss. And I, so. Heidi Rew (34:17.722) Hmm. Heidi Rew (34:22.331) Yeah. Heidi Rew (34:30.307) I know. Well, and we like to give. Yeah, it's not, yeah, it's not gonna stop, but it is a tricky thing to try and find that balance of like, how do I fill back up myself so I can give to other people, so. Anne (34:39.322) Yeah, it is. It's yes to navigate. Yes. Well, absolutely. Well, you guys have just been amazing and you're just an icon in Atlanta there. And it was so wonderful to actually get the opportunity to have you on the show because you guys are bosses and you are a boss. So, yeah, thank you so much. And we really appreciate you sharing your nuggets of wisdom. Heidi Rew (34:51.402) Uh... Heidi Rew (34:59.05) I know. Oh. Anne (35:17.406) when you have self doubts. Because that really means a lot to people out there that think, gosh, she must have it all, because she's been doing it forever. And it really helps to know that we're not alone out there. And so I appreciate your transparency. So, yes. Heidi Rew (35:19.026) Mm-hmm. Heidi Rew (35:25.188) Mm-mm. No. Heidi Rew (35:29.476) Yeah. Heidi Rew (35:33.146) Yeah, thank you so much for having me on, and thank you, VO Bosses, for letting me be with you in this moment. Anne (35:39.314) Yay, yay, awesome. All right guys, a big shout out to our sponsor, IPDTL. You too can connect and network like Heidi and I. Find out more at ipdtl.com. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  

The BOSSES talk about practice this week! Through personal anecdotes and expert advice, they reveal that practice isn't just about refining technique—it's a journey to discover new habits that can benefit your career. The BOSSES talk about why many voiceover students skip practice sessions and how accountability partners and workout groups can be game-changers in your pursuit of vocal excellence. The BOSSES discuss the risks of practicing without professional oversight, and how it can lead to bad habits that are tough to break. They shine a spotlight on the undeniable advantages of participating in structured groups like Audition Demolition and VO Peeps, which offer both expert feedback and the kind of networking opportunities that can kickstart a career. We equate voice acting to mastering a musical instrument, asserting that progress requires commitment to practice beyond the four walls of coaching sessions. 00:02 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses. Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey and voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza voice productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit Anne Ganguzza.com to find out more.  00:33 - Intro (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ann Ganguza.  00:46 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Hey bosses, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my special guest co-host Lau Lapides. Hey, Lau, hey.  00:58 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie, it's great to see you, as always. How are you Wonderful, ready to talk and chat it up?  01:05 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Awesome, awesome.  01:06 - Lau Lapides (Host) So, Lau.  01:07 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) As you know, I am a coach, and as well as you, and it seems like every week I have a few students that they always want to do live reads with me during our sessions, which I think is wonderful. But, as a coach and a former educator, I always assign homework, because I want people to get the most out of their sessions.  01:25 So I feel like it's very important that they have different scripts that they can read, they can record, they can practice getting used to different styles, and I want to make sure that in between sessions they are doing that on some sort of a daily basis. I think that's super important for their growth and development. It amazes me Lau how many times I will have students say well, I got really busy and I get it. Like life happens, there's families, there's things that happen and you can't always practice, but sometimes there are students who just never seem to take the time to really work in between sessions. I thought we should have a discussion about that.  02:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) Yeah, it's a good point. It's a good point. I used to think, and my team used to think and oftentimes mistake, when that happened, and it happened quite frequently with us as well that they didn't care, they weren't engaged, they weren't serious, they were lazy, all of those things. Sometimes, it is true I don't know if that's it or they procrastinate, procrastination was very, very big.  02:25 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) That's a whole other episode.  02:27 - Lau Lapides (Host) It's a whole other episode, but I mean, I have found that the learning process of how you cement technique and how you utilize your tools and how you really discover organically who you are as a performer is through the practice session and there's different methodologies that you've got to look at to make it successful for yourself. And, of course, one which is very hot today the accountability of having at least one other person, one partner, out there that's going to meet you, that's going to be with you, live real time and work you through. It has typically been very successful for people that their schedules match. Sure, they're well matched together, they enjoy being together, it becomes a professional friendship for them and it can work.  03:15 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, now you're talking about accountability like an accountability group, right, that can just say all right. So what did you do this week to further your business? So I want to make sure that we're talking not just accountability in terms of hey, what did you do this week to secure more leads, to get more?  03:32 - Intro (Announcement) work.  03:32 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) We're talking accountability for, let's say, if you want to get better at the craft and I think there's lots of things that you can do to help yourself get better at the craft- and now it's hard to have an ear when you haven't developed an ear yet, and so sometimes I'll give homework and people will get very upset if they're like, yeah, but I did the homework, but now that you've told me these things, you shouldn't listen to that homework anymore. But, honestly, the homework that I gave or the scripts that I give, no matter what performance level you're at, right, there's so many good reasons to do the homework.  04:09 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, no question about it.  04:11 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Because even if you don't have an ear yet, there's many advantages of you experiencing and attempting to record by yourself and get things submitted on time. Gosh, there's just so many things right, it's like auditioning techniques.  04:28 There's editing techniques you're getting better at, you're experiencing different styles.  04:32 I mean you could be within a genre and have multiple different style scripts come your way that you have to analyze and figure out.  04:40 And so, for me, if you don't have a discipline of doing something voiceover every single day performance-wise right, I think you're kind of missing the boat. And I'm not going to say that you're lazy if you don't do it, but I am going to say that having something that you do every single day is important because it helps you learn, as you said, who you are. As you said who you are, it helps you learn like, oh, if I record a script in the morning, I realize, oh, I have a lower voice in the morning, or I have more energy in the morning, or versus recording after a long day at work, right, oh, I sounded a little bit strained in that performance. So it helps to know who you are as a performer by having those practice, having the exercises, having the homework, whatever you want to call it. And also, yeah, I think having an accountability buddy is very helpful. And also, la, let's talk about workout groups.  05:33 - Lau Lapides (Host) Oh, absolutely. And I'll tell you, you know, before this idea of accountability, buddies came in, which really came from other industries, completely like the gym. Working out at a gym, you'd have an accountability partner at a gym. You know, way before I knew about it for voiceover, I always learned it as an actor In conservatory level. You would always be in rehearsal. We didn't call it practice sessions, we called it rehearsal. You were always rehearsing your roles, always. And could you rehearse alone, rehearsing your roles always. And could you rehearse alone? Of course, and you have to rehearse alone at times, but when you can be with another person, that level of energy and stimulation and fun factor I think helps to cement a discipline of saying I got to come to it every day. It's like I have a class that I'm going to yes.  06:23 I have to get to that. I have to do that. I'm being held to that. So then, when you go to your workout classes, you have a lot to bring to the table because guess what, you're not just relying on the workout class to give you everything You've already been working out on your own right. And then you're bringing that in for your director or your coach or your facilitator and saying here are things I've been working on, here are things I've been coaching and practicing and rehearsing every day. Now let me work through it with a live group in the room.  06:55 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, and I think that that gives you yet another level of practice that can really help you develop auditioning skills, and it can, again, it makes you accountable.  07:06 You're like, well, I don't want to be a complete fool, I should probably right, I should probably work on my technique or my performance, so that when I get in front of the group, right, I'm not going to necessarily seem like I don't know what I'm doing. And so I do want to say one word of caution when working out with peer groups right, peer groups without necessarily someone that can really guide along the peer group that maybe have more experience might be just floundering, shall I say, or misguiding. If that's the case, if you have a bunch of new people in a workout group and you're all directing one another, sometimes you can get direction that may not be helpful because everybody is new. So at least if you're working out with a group of people, if you can try to have a leader of that group that can oversee or that has some experience, some casting experience, some coaching experience that can help guide, if there is feedback that may or may not be helpful to you for your performance.  08:03 - Lau Lapides (Host) I couldn't say that any better, annie. I'm not a fan of pair workout groups and the reason is because it's not that you can't have professional friends and you can't help one another, you can. But I get concerned about and I'll bring it back to the gym again, because it's an easy analogy that if I meet up with two or three or four people and we're all lifting the 50-pound weight or whatever and I'm just not doing it properly and they're not aware of that, they're not catching that, they might even be saying great job, lau. Oh my God, look at your biceps. And meanwhile I'm straining my back, I'm hurting my lower back. I'm hoping that the facilitator or the coach or the trainer has that knowledge base to say hey, hey, hey, no, no, no, no, we don't do it that way.  08:49 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Here's your proper technique, here's your proper form.  08:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) That's my biggest concern. And the other concern I have about a peer workout group as well is be careful, like, have your gossip antennas up. We shouldn't be going into a practice rehearsal, performance group to talk about the business or gossip about other people or whatever. And oftentimes it can go down that road of like oh, who did you audition for today? Oh, I got that script. Oh, what do you think of her? How come she sent that out? And then all of a sudden all sorts of things are said in that room which are not appropriate, makes people feel really uncomfortable and is completely off topic from what you came in to do in the first place, which was practice.  09:33 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, yeah, and we're talking again bosses. We're talking performance and techniques, not necessarily business meetings, right, we're business accountability and in that place I think you can talk about the business, the industry as it exists. And I agree with you. I think gossip we have to be very careful about gossip, just because I don't think gossip serves any useful purpose really, and it is one of those things that gets to think of let's gossip around the water cooler. It happens.  10:00 I mean, we do it, we do it, but I think that business accountability groups or performance groups should probably steer clear of that, if it's possible. I don't think it's really constructive in a lot of ways. And in regards to workout groups, I mean I can't sit here on the VO Boss podcast and not say we have an audition, demolition, which is a really wonderful group where you can work out, and we have a simulated audition and you can get feedback from coaches, lau and myself and also work up your live performance skills as well. As I have the VO Peeps, which has a workout group that happens once a month. That is part of the group and you've got TIC right.  10:39 - Lau Lapides (Host) Then you have workouts that happen for your group, lau, yeah, we got weekly workouts happening and I wanted to say about Audition Demolition, when we came up with that, Annie, like I don't even think we realized really the impact that that kind of a live directed session has. And I'll be honest, I mean you can edit this out later. It's educational, it's developmental, it's social. But let me be honest, I have pulled a few of those people for my roster that were amazing people that came in that I said, oh my goodness, they need an agent or they need representation, like ASAP. So whenever you go into a professional work experience like this, you're in a room, you're auditioning, You're actually auditioning. It's the real deal. It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real Well, even though we say it is, but it is real.  11:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) It's not a mock audition, it's not a mimic audition, it's a real. Well, even though we say it is, but it is real, it's real.  11:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Annie could be casting something or have a friend that's producing something and she may be thinking about you because she just saw you in the room. So I'm just saying come in and really experience the live directed session and observe Also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It absolutely. And observe also observe what's happening with others with your colleagues. It's fabulous.  11:54 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And with your weekly workouts as well as mine. I have guest directors that come in on a regular basis and I cannot tell you the amount of times where I've had a casting director come in or a talent agent and I can never promise right. As a matter of fact, I even have to have a disclaimer saying that this does not guarantee you representation at all. However, there have been a number of peeps that have come into my workout groups and performed well and they have been signed with an agent or they have struck up a relationship with a casting director and then gotten hired. So I think that these are the things that I think are very beneficial for bosses out there in really growing in the performance aspect of your career, and it's so, so important because I am a business owner, I am a coach. If you say to me, I want to do live reads every time we meet, of course I can do live reads, but I also want you to be working on them in between sessions, because otherwise it's going to take you a really long time to get to the point where you're going to be ready to, let's say, record a demo or ready to really get out there and do work. It's kind of like I used to take piano lessons back in the day and if I didn't practice in between my lessons, boy did my teacher know it, because she would give me music to practice during the week. And so when I would meet with her the following week, if I didn't practice, it guess what? It was very painfully obvious, and she could take my money week after week. And if I didn't practice, well, my mom would be angry, because you know she's like why am I spending all that money on these sessions? And if you think about it, really, bosses, you're spending money and you should be getting the most out of your sessions that you can. So, in addition to the I would say, workout groups that are led with coaches or people that are experienced, that can really help move you forward, also yourself in the studio, working on these scripts and even fumbling, which is fine. That's what they're there for. I mean, that's why I give homework.  13:57 And then struggling through the editing, and people always say, well, do you really need me to edit it? And I said I want you to edit it, like it's an audition for me, right? So then I'm going to play it back for you and then we're going to talk about it and I'm going to redirect you. And the reason I do that is not because I want to just give you busy work. It's not busy work, it is giving you so much more.  14:18 Like this is what's going to happen when you get a job right You're going to have to record in your studio, you're going to have to self-direct, you're going to have to edit that audio and you're going to have to present it. Or, if you're doing an audition right and you're going to have to put it in a form that someone can actually listen to, you're going to have to understand your editing skills. You're going to have to in certain cases in e-learning and corporate, you have to remove breaths or you have to really de-amplify your breaths and you have to do all those things. And I'm like, look, the point of me giving you something on a day-to-day basis to do is not to stress you out.  14:51 It is to help you get the most out of our sessions together, and I think that it's important that you have a discipline. If you can spend 20 minutes a day, if you can spend an hour a day, if you can spend more than that, that's wonderful. But take time set aside and make a discipline and sometimes I say mix up the times, like if you can do it in the morning before you, if you have another job that you go to do it in the morning before you go to the job, and then maybe, if you can do it during the lunch hour, maybe try it when you come home. And then you get to know yourself, know your performance level, know, oh, I sound good in the morning, I have a lot of energy, or I sound horrible after a day's work, when it's been horrible.  15:31 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well said. Couldn't have said it any better. I mean, that's really what it is, and when you show up to, whatever you show up to, don't underestimate it. What I mean by that is whether it's a partner of yours, whether it's a workout group, whether it's in front of a casting director, whether it's audition demolition. Put yourself together as if you are a professional in a professional environment, and I don't care if people are showing up in pajamas and they're coming from bed. Don't do it.  15:58 Don't make the mistake to do that, because not only will your psychology not be up to par with the level at which you need to be sustaining and working at, but you could literally lose connections, you could lose jobs, you could lose potential opportunities, because I don't know about you, annie, but I see the weirdest things and tick Like all of a sudden I see a bed and I'm like why am I looking at an unmade bed and I have to take out the video. Like I have to literally watch out and take out the video. I see the weirdest things and I'm like why would you show up in bed? Why would you show up just coming out of the shower? Why would you show up in these ways? These are meetings, professional meetings, and I think that the casualness of being at home has trained people into thinking well, I'm on Zoom, it's just I'm here. No, you're still in a professional meeting environment where people are thinking about the work you're doing. They're observing you.  16:56 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Well, it is about more than just your voice. I mean, it is about the professionalism and professional demeanor and how you act, what you look like. It's all part of the package. And that's that whole discussion. Like, do we even need demos anymore? Of course we do. Do we need performance coaching? Of course we do. I mean, in reality, I mean this is what makes us who we are. It helps us develop and move forward in our businesses.  17:18 And again, I cannot stress enough that if you're not dedicating a certain amount of time on a day-to-day basis to get better at this craft, then I'm not quite sure what you're doing. And that's fine if maybe it's just a hobby for you, Maybe it's just something you're trying out to see, if you enjoy it. And a lot of times there are people who are like oh gosh, I didn't realize it was going to be work, I thought I was just talking behind the mic and a lot of times, right again, you don't know what you don't know. And so if you think it's easier than it is, that's another reason why I give the homework that I give so that people can see that it really isn't and so that you can get the feedback, you can get the evaluation and I can say you know what it sounds like. You need to improve on your studio a little bit. I'm hearing a little bit of noise, or, hey, I'm hearing some mouth clicks, or I'm hearing whatever that is, or your performance sounds like it's not. I don't believe it, it's not authentic, and so those are the things that your practicing is going to help you.  18:16 And again, at some point, it's like you practice and you don't hear yourself. You don't hear yourself and then you get feedback and then you come back, you practice some more and then you get some more feedback, which is why I think having that coaching or having that professional that can give you feedback is so incredibly critical to improve in your career. I mean, can you do it all on your own by watching videos? I think that can be a supplement if you have a good group the VO Peeps we have videos that you can watch that were people that have worked out before with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times with guest directors who are amazing in their field. I mean Lau, you've been on it a couple of times. And Audition, Demolition gosh guys, we have the Audition Demolitions on the VO Boss YouTube channel. You can go and watch them now and learn from those. So, yeah, I think that those types of workouts, those types of group practices, are something that can be very beneficial for you.  19:10 - Lau Lapides (Host) Absolutely. I couldn't have said it any better. You're taking the words out of my head. I would say this, though, too I think you and I take for granted how much energy and stamina and willfulness we have in going from session to session, hour to hour, moment to moment, through a very, very long day, because we've been trained that way, we're used to that, we expect that to some degree, we enjoy that, we love that. Well, I have found like, when I run classes and as it goes after the first hour into 90 minutes, I start watching the group to see is their energy going, is their stamina going? By two hours, people are starting to pop up. Yes, yes, I am so shocked at that Listen.  19:56 Mama lau knows, mama lau, mama lawu knows that they're lying when they say, oh, I got an appointment, I have to go.  20:04 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) No, they're getting tired. Yeah, they leave after two hours. And you know, that's so interesting that you say that, because it used to be years ago I would have three-hour workouts and if it were like a guest director, that was like top in their field. People would stay until they left. I mean, it was just like they couldn't get enough of it. And lately, lau, I have had sessions where my guest director goes a little bit past two hours and people are like I got to go, I got to go, I'm off, right, and I find that a little bit disturbing.  20:35 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, therein lies the background and the history of that talent, and where has their training come from? Where has their experience come from? I'll use an example, because a lot of voiceover talent are also on-camera actors as well. Many, many, many. If they're on a film set, they know they have to have patience for 7, 8, 11, 14 hours. They're not just going to be released because they get tired. They're going to have to stick that through and figure out what makes them stay with it throughout that time frame. I mean same with, like, if you do theater, many voiceover talent come from a theater background. Well, that's a big rehearsal process. You could go in for three, four, five hours at a time to rehearse a show. So those folks that come in, I find those folks that come in already have a built-in understanding of time and energy and stamina.  21:30 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Yeah, I mean stamina, stamina. I'm just going to say there is something to be said for stamina and especially because, let's say, I mean I work a lot in long-format narration, right, you need stamina to be able to be present in that script, to execute that 45-module e-learning right. And audiobook narrators, I find, have good stamina, but there's also material that may be completely interesting to them, right. Whenever it's story-driven, right, I feel like, well, at least there's some story in there, and sometimes there may not be stories within the stories, but you have to develop a vocal muscle. You really do.  22:08 And it's kind of like me when I gosh back in the day when I was teaching, and I would be teaching class after class after class after class, your voice had to get used to talking. That much. I mean I had to build up stamina. You go to the gym, right, I got to build muscle. You have to build vocal muscle and you have to build not only vocal muscle but mental muscle.  22:26 That really helps you to stick it out, to be present, to be that actor for the amount of time that you need. I mean, if there's breaks in between, right, and you're watching somebody else go in a group session, right, and all of a sudden it's like but I'm on the East Coast, right. I get people that say that I'm on the East Coast and I got to go to bed. Okay, I get that, but still, there's stamina. Right, there is a muscle that you need to build up If you really want to see yourself succeed, and we might have people that argue with us and say is it that hard? Yeah, I mean, I feel like it can be if you want to be good at this, right.  22:59 - Lau Lapides (Host) But wouldn't you say also, though, annie, that there's this whether it's an addiction factor or a dopamine kick or whatever it is, I find so many of us that come from these backgrounds and work through a long day, work through a long shift, love it. We just can't get enough of it. There's an insatiable need to keep doing it. So if you're practicing, for instance, you shouldn't keep practicing at five minutes or 10 minutes for a year, two years, three years. You should be building that time frame and that stamina and the passion for why you're staying longer with it. I just love what we do. I love what I do. I enjoy what I do. I want more of it. I want to do more of it. You know what I mean.  23:42 If I teach a live class and I teach a live class in a studio, which is more rare nowadays they're typically six to eight hours in length, and the kids that sit in the class, that are like in the 20s or in the 30s. They will start to fade about halfway through. I'll see them kind of like fade, and I'll be like you know what? You guys, I'm not used to taking as many breaks, but you tell me when you need a break. I don't want to lose you Just tell me when you need a break.  24:07 But those kinds of things in your training is so important because then when you go practice on your own, if you've done six hours of training or eight hours of training in a row, to do 15 minutes or 30 minutes is no longer a big deal for you. It's all relative right in a lot of ways.  24:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So Law, what are your best tips for developing that stamina muscle that you would say voice actors can do to help their performance?  24:37 - Lau Lapides (Host) Well, perhaps this is redundant. You need to do it and you should do it a lot, and so, like, let's say you're joining a class or a group or a workout or whatever it is. You need to, like, top yourself, keep challenging yourself, keep topping yourself. One group may be one hour. That's going to help me practice. That's all I need for now. One hour is perfect. But then I want to also join a group that may go two hours in length, because I want to be able to see.  25:04 This is one of the things, annie, that graduate school taught me. I didn't realize at the time, but later I realized they taught you how to teach your craft, direct your craft, produce your craft. Why? Because you weren't always performing, you were observing all the people in the room. Yeah, you were made to give feedback to every single person in the room, until you were blue in the face and said I don't know what to say anymore. They said you better figure out what to say, because if you're teaching in a program, if you're producing a project or you're doing whatever and you have to give feedback, you have to give feedback. So that's a muscle. That's a muscle where you have to just keep exposing yourself to more and more people simultaneously and more and more time. I just want to say one more thing about actors. Actors oftentimes beginning-level actors would get very annoyed if they're in a room where they only get to work for a very small part of the time.  26:01 And then they have to watch 15 people right, and I said you better thank your lucky stars because that's going to be one day, your company, your team, your classroom, your whatever and you're going to have to have the stamina and discipline to go through every single one of those auditions, every single one of those performances student or someone that really wants to learn as much as they possibly can, will understand the value of sitting there and listening and watching other people.  26:31 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) And you're right, there's a lot of people who will be quick to complain that, well, they might do a group workout, but they only get 10 minutes on mic, and so I believe that you should have individual attention, which is great for one-on-one coaching as well as the group workouts.  26:47 Yes, I do too. That together builds your muscle and really is something I advise everyone and to get experience and exposure with different directors, which is why one of the reasons why I have the VO Peeps group and it's one of the reasons why you have TIC right and you bring in guest directors, because it's very important for you to get exposure from different teachers, from different feedback from different people, because it just helps you become a more well-rounded actor. And, of course, if you can make that discipline I mean you don't want to be investing all your money into sessions and not be getting the most out of your sessions, out of your sessions and so, with that, if you are making the investment to get that coaching, then make sure that you start to exercise that muscle on a daily basis or every other day, whatever you can work in on a consistent basis. I think consistency is key.  27:42 - Lau Lapides (Host) Right, it doesn't always have to be constant, but it should be consistent. That's really important, and I would build in every time work, a new tool, something that you have observed, picked up, been coached or directed to do. Write it down. Don't just keep it in your head and forget about it, because there's a million things that coaches and directors are going to be offering to you throughout your career that you're just not going to be able to conjure up and remember. So you have to document. However, you document, document and pull one thing out, say, oh okay, annie coached me, okay, she gave me builds. This week I got to work on my build. Let me look at this script. Let me work on my build. That's going to take my focus into a very specific zone, rather than me standing in the booth going has 15 minutes gone by yet? Have I practiced enough? Right, exactly.  28:24 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Exactly, and I'm going to say when you practice, it requires your focus. So for me to be the best actor that you can be, it requires 100 plus percent focus into your scene who you are, who you're talking to, because it's so easy to just read, so easy to just read. So don't just get in there and read. Get in there and create those scenes, figure out who you're talking to be in the scenes. And that requires imagination, it requires a lot of focus and that's tiring.  28:51 - Lau Lapides (Host) And take care of yourself, like don't dehydrate, don't overheat, don't feel like I'm standing for so long I can't see straight. If your eyes are hurting you from the light, turn the light off. Be easy on your brain so that your brain can focus on the more important things, that's, your work at hand. Make your environment conducive to practice. How many times, annie, have you seen one of your clients that you meet on a coaching session on Zoom and they're in the dark? They're in the dark and I'm like where's your light? Where's your light? How do you see? Aren't you straining your eyes? They're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. How do you see, aren't you straining your eyes? You're like, oh yeah, let me set something up. You got to do what's best for you. What makes your work more palatable for you is what's going to make your practice sessions more enjoyable. Right, absolutely.  29:38 - Anne Ganguzza (Host) Good stuff, Lau, great stuff. So very important bosses, practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. Practice, get your practice in, get your discipline in All right. I am going to give a huge shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, which allows Lau and I to get in our vocal practice and talk to one another like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  30:03 - Intro (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.