VO BOSS Podcast

What makes a voiceover performance truly connect with an audience? In this VO BOSS conversation, Jim Meskimen and Anne Ganguzza talk about what happens when voice actors stop simply reading the words and start communicating the thought behind them. Jim shares insights from his extensive career in voiceover, acting, improv, impressions, animation, audiobooks, television, film, and more. They discuss why the script is a path rather than a set of instructions, how preparation creates freedom, why improv makes you a stronger performer, and what it really means to be directable. The conversation also explores auditions, rejection, stage fright, building confidence, creating authentic content, and continuing to grow as a performer throughout your career. In this episode, you'll learn: Why the words are only part of the performance How to bring your own point of view to a script Why preparation can actually make you more spontaneous How improv strengthens voiceover skills What directors really mean when they ask you to be "directable" How to approach auditions and rejection Why communication has no finish line How Jim has continued to reinvent himself throughout his career Chapters: 00:00 – Meet Jim Meskimen: A Career Built on Versatility 07:20 – Overcoming Stage Fright and Building Confidence 11:00 – How Improv Strengthens Voiceover Performance 13:30 – Authenticity, Impressions, and Bringing Yourself to the Work 15:30 – Why Voice Actors Shouldn't Become Servants to the Words 21:30 – What Unexpected Moments on Set Can Teach an Actor 25:00 – Directability, Flexibility, and Creative Collaboration 27:30 – Auditions, Rejection, and Recognizing the Small Wins 33:00 – Reinvention and Creating a Sustainable Acting Career 37:30 – Content Creation as an Authentic Marketing Strategy 40:50 – Finding Freedom Within the Script Listen to the full conversation for Jim's stories, insights, and lessons from an extraordinary career in performance.  

Building a successful voiceover career takes far more than talent behind the microphone. In this episode, Anne Ganguzza shares the lessons she wishes someone had told her before turning voice acting into a business. From marketing and client relationships to financial planning, resilience, and overcoming perfectionism, Anne explores what it really takes to build a sustainable voice acting career. She explains why success isn't defined by one big booking, but by the consistent actions that create long-term growth. If you're serious about building a voiceover business, this conversation will help you shift your mindset from chasing milestones to creating a career that lasts. In this episode, you'll learn: Why performance is only part of a successful voiceover career The business skills every voice actor needs How to handle rejection and failure without losing momentum Why marketing is an ongoing part of your business The importance of financial planning and client relationships How progress—not perfection—creates opportunities What real, lasting voice actor success looks like Podcast Chapters 00:00 – No One Tells You How Hard It Really Is 06:15 – Performance Is Only Half the Job 12:48 – Why Success Is a Moving Target 18:32 – Learning to Embrace Failure 24:40 – Progress Over Perfection 30:55 – Building a Career That Lasts Whether you're just starting your voiceover career or looking to grow your voiceover business, this episode offers practical insights to help you build a career you'll love for years to come.

Chapter 1: The Trap of Practicing in a Vacuum (00:00 – 04:28) Anne introduces Tom Dheere and lays out the core mystery: why do highly talented voice actors stop booking? Tom references Jeff Colvin's landmark book Talent is Overrated, breaking down how elite performers across industries (like Tiger Woods or Mozart) rely entirely on the quantity and quality of deliberate practice. He warns that a massive trap for rising talent is practicing in a vacuum. Without a performance coach or objective professional director to provide constructive feedback, talent listen back to their files with subjective, untrained ears and end up cementing bad structural habits. Chapter 2: Reps vs. Experimentation (04:29 – 07:34) Anne highlights why she assigns rigorous homework to her students—not to cause stress, but to build operational muscle memory. She notes that the real learning happens in the quiet moments between sessions when a student forces themselves to analyze, record, edit, and upload a new script daily. Tom introduces a vital distinction between practice and experimentation. Practice is the mechanical repetition of reps. Experimentation means putting on a psychological "lab coat" to explore diverse emotional subtexts—such as shifting a line from frustration to envy or adoration—ensuring an actor doesn't get stuck in an undirectable rut. Chapter 3: The Intention of the Copywriter (07:35 – 10:21) Anne shares an anecdote from a recent group class where a copywriter validated her baseline training philosophy: every single word on a script was written with explicit intention and purpose. If an actor rushes into their home studio and records an audition without investigating why those specific words exist on the page, the resulting delivery sounds flat, stereotypical, and contrived. Chapter 4: The 500-File Slush Pile (10:22 – 12:47) Tom provides a sobering glimpse into the brutal logistics of a major casting call. When a director receives 500 auditions for a single corporate or commercial spot: The first 100 files are instantly deleted because they failed to follow basic filename formatting rules. The next 100 files are discarded because the talent slipped into a sterile, melodic announcer cadence (da-da-da-da-da-da) within the first five seconds. The final selection comes down to the actors who make strong, distinct, and logical choices right out of the gate, honoring the semantic hierarchy of the text. Chapter 5: Overworking the File vs. Seeking the Truth (12:48 – 15:35) Anne and Tom warn against letting the pendulum swing too far in the opposite direction. New voice actors frequently overwork an audition, recording multiple takes and over-analyzing their delivery until the final file sounds heavily manufactured and performative. Tom shares a brilliant rule from legendary audiobook narrator Johnny Heller: your primary job in every single genre of voiceover is to seek the text's truth. Whether you are reading a cinematic historical narrative or shouting about used cars for an auto lot, you must deliver a believable, raw human point of view. Chapter 6: The Demographic Filter & Fresh Batteries (15:36 – 22:14) The hosts tackle the reality of the demographic filter. A voice actor can turn in a technically flawless, award-worthy performance but still lose the job simply because their voice print doesn't line up with the specific targeted audience (e.g., Medicare recipients vs. baseball fans). Tom notes that modern buyers have fresh batteries in their "BS detectors" and demand peer-to-peer authenticity. Anne shares that her highest-booking auditions are consistently the ones she treated as an honest interaction, rather than trying to match an artificial melody she imagined hearing on the air. Chapter 7: The Meta-Data of the 3 Portals (22:15 – End) Tom delivers a masterclass in tracking business metrics, revealing that he completed exactly 1,492 auditions in 2024 and 1,659 auditions in 2025. By auditing his spreadsheets, Tom discovered a powerful pattern: 75% of his total voiceover revenue is generated by repeat business, while 25% comes from direct auditions. He shares how analyzing his booked auditions across his Three Portals (Representation, Online Casting, and Self-Marketing) allowed him to track shifting industry trends, noticing his bookings naturally migrated from bright, casual tones in 2024 toward heavy, chesty gravitas in 2025. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Talent is just the baseline: Possessing a natural storytelling gene means nothing if you fail to develop your technical skills. Focus heavily on mastering Colvin's principle of deliberate, high-quality practice. Stop listening with subjective ears: Practicing in isolation reinforces bad booth habits. Invest in an objective performance coach or a verified industry peer who will give you hard, honest structural feedback. Master the complete production sequence: Homework isn't just about vocal tracking. Use your practice hours to master script analysis, audio file editing, and data uploading so your operational pipeline becomes seamless. Put on the psychological lab coat: Avoid getting married to a single vocal delivery. Force yourself to run script experiments using contrasting emotional anchors—like shifting from clinical authority to friendly advice—to keep your performance fluid and directable. Honor the copywriter's intent: Copywriters spend hours fine-tuning text to hit specific marketing targets. Honor their labor by uncovering the specific purpose behind every noun, adjective, and punctuation mark before you hit record. Eliminate the mechanical announcer cadence: Buyers will tune you out within the first three seconds if you slip into a predictive, rhythmic vocal melody. Make a distinct, grounded acting choice right out of the gate. Adhere strictly to filename data specs: If a casting notice requests a specific label format (e.g., LastName_FirstName_Brand.mp3), follow it to the letter. Casting directors handle hundreds of files and will delete non-compliant data instantly without listening. Ditch the 15-take audition spiral: Over-analyzing your audio files destroys human naturalness. Cap yourself at three distinct takes, select the most honest file, delete the structural waste, and submit. Balance your Three Portals synergetically: Do not pass judgment on specific marketing avenues. Representation, Online Casting (Pay-to-Plays), and Self-Marketing exist in a synergistic loop—improving your output on one portal naturally sharpens your conversion rate on the others. Track your business meta-data to spot trends: Log every single audition, portal source, genre, and booking. Stepping back quarterly to track structural patterns will show you exactly which vocal signatures are driving revenue in the current marketplace.  

Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The Audition Addiction Metric (00:00 – 02:08) Anne and Lau challenge the industry-standard phrase, "the audition is the job." Lau warns against letting auditioning become a static, addictive loop, explaining that many exclusive talent agencies provide detailed submission reports specifically so talent can weigh their output against their actual revenue. They suggest assessing and reassessing your audition volume quarterly to determine your true Return on Investment (ROI). Chapter 2: Shifting from Mass Auditions to SEO & Referral Engines (02:09 – 04:41) Anne pulls back the curtain on her own multi-faceted business structure as a full-time talent, coach, and demo producer. She reveals that she rarely auditions anymore except for her agents because her calendar simply doesn't allow it. By shifting her focus to non-broadcast corporate and medical narration genres, Anne built her business around direct marketing, strong web SEO, and top-tier demos. Instead of spending hours recording speculative files, she relies on organic search placement, high-converting email negotiations, and repeat client referrals to fill her pipeline. Chapter 3: Time Management & Taking Agency with Agents (04:42 – 07:14) Lau addresses the structural collapse of time management when a voice actor falls into a three-to-six-hour daily audition black hole. She urges talent to take control of their schedules by setting strict time limits and alarms. Lau shares a crucial insider agent secret: if an audition arrives that doesn't fit your current availability or artistic wheelhouse, it is perfectly okay to pass. You do not need to send an apologetic email; your agent has already moved on to other roster selections. Chapter 4: The Seasonal Strategy & Developing Rep Relationships (07:15 – 10:17) The hosts unpack how to leverage the natural seasonal shifts of the entertainment year. Lau suggests heavy audition tracking during high-volume periods like autumn, while using quieter summer months to overhaul websites, clean up databases, and update marketing assets. Anne notes that a secure, communicative relationship with your talent agent reduces the artificial pressure to book every cattle-call notice that hits your inbox. Chapter 5: The Wild West of Pay-to-Plays (10:18 – 13:25) Anne and Lau dissect the transactional reality of modern pay-to-play casting platforms. Anne warns that over-submitting on these open marketplaces can actually tank your algorithmic score on certain sites. They emphasize the necessity of prioritizing hand-picked agency notices over unvetted web auditions, asking talent a vital baseline question: "Would you rather submit 1,000 blind auditions or cultivate 10 high-paying, repeat clients?" Chapter 6: The 1:3 Production Limit & Mental Burnout (13:26 – 21:15) Anne introduces the technical logistics of audio production, sharing that after years of professional editing, her benchmark turnaround speed remains capped at a 1:3 ratio—meaning every single hour of raw recorded audio requires three hours of painstaking cleaning, editing, and mastering. She points out that the sheer physical and mental capacity consumed by constant recording leaves talent too exhausted to handle essential business items like invoicing or pipeline cultivation. This ongoing rejection loop quickly induces performance fatigue, leading to a sterile, uninspired delivery that casting directors filter out instantly. Chapter 7: The "Miyagi" 3-Read Cap & Corporate Safety Nets (21:16 – End) To maintain creative focus, Anne shares her golden rule: allow yourself a maximum of three recording takes per script, pick the best one, and move on. Lau delivers her strategic closing framework, reminding talent to step outside the daily operational weeds to look at the overall geography of their business. They conclude by encouraging voice actors to establish an intentional six-month business savings reserve, giving them the confidence and mental stability needed to deliver relaxed, booking-winning performances. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Calculate your true audition ROI: Submitting audio files all day without tracking your conversion metrics is counterproductive. Audit your calendar quarterly to ensure your booking ratio justifies the time spent in your booth. Auditioning is a task, not a business model: Sending out file after file won't magically build an independent brand. Do not use constant recording as an excuse to avoid hard business tasks like direct outbound marketing or pipeline building. Set a hard deadline on your recording blocks: Avoid letting submissions drift across your entire afternoon. Use a structural time-blocking system—such as dedicating 9:00 AM to 11:00 AM exclusively to agency notices—and step out of the booth once the buzzer sounds. Take absolute agency over the "pass": Your relationship with your talent agent is a two-way professional dynamic. If a casting notice is a poor demographic fit or arrives past your operating hours, decline the submission confidently without guilt. Leverage seasonal market cycles: Align your business goals with corporate seasons. Maximize your studio tracking during heavy autumn casting rushes, and reallocate quiet summer quarters to database development, website updates, and direct outreach. Beware the open platform loop: Pay-to-play sites often operate as unvetted, high-volume digital environments. Prioritize hand-picked, direct agency opportunities where your unique biological voiceprint is structurally valued. Respect the 1:3 editing standard: Remember that a single hour of raw voiceover audio demands up to three hours of post-production labor. Budget your energy wisely to protect your studio's operational capacity. Implement the 3-read maximum limit: Avoid over-analyzing and recording fifteen variations of the same paragraph. Limit yourself to three distinct takes, select the most honest file, delete the leftovers, and keep moving. Step out of the operational weeds: Step back regularly to evaluate the macro geography of your small business. Ensure you are actively managing larger items like business development and client retention, rather than getting lost in micro-mechanics. Anchor your creativity with a financial safety net: Maintain a distinct business savings account containing at least six months of baseline operational expenses. Financial security eliminates desperation, immediately freeing your voice up to sound relaxed and authentic.  

Chapter 1: The Four-Year Pivot & Automation (00:01 – 03:43) A realistic assessment of the modern voiceover landscape. The conversation breaks down why doubling down on specific performance sectors combats the rise of generative AI, and shatters the panic surrounding long-form narration. Chapter 2: The IVR Evolution & NAVA (03:44 – 06:58) An analysis of the sectors most impacted by digital cloning, particularly telephony and IVR. The chapter covers historical warnings regarding voice data and introduces the operational growth of NAVA. Chapter 3: Corporate Blueprints & Intuition (06:59 – 11:24) A look into how a corporate career in insurance claims adjusting hands entrepreneurs the ultimate blueprint for business autonomy and time tracking. The discussion covers handling conflicting advice from industry mentors. Chapter 4: The LinkedIn Relationship Engine (11:25 – 14:49) The exact steps required to transform a standard profile into an organic, inbound lead-generation machine without spending money on premium platform upgrades. Chapter 5: Unconferences and Content Longevity (14:50 – 18:20) A breakdown of how simple, de-mystified business structures resonate best with creatives, featuring a look into long-term product modernization and content upkeep. Chapter 6: Paywalls & Parallel Accountability (18:21 – 28:04) Tactical advice on how to maintain dominant search functionality even as features get locked behind corporate paywalls, alongside a unique virtual co-working strategy that crushes procrastination. Chapter 7: Outsourcing & Dropping the Stress (28:05 – End) How to maintain tight creative control over a brand while strategically outsourcing administrative labor. The episode wraps with a reality check on social media posting schedules and child voice talent safeguards. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Human nuance remains un-clonable: Synthetic models cannot replicate the organic emotional transitions that define elite commercial performance. Continuous education is structural protection: Entrepreneurs must treat business development and tech training as non-negotiable daily habits. Run your business on intuition: Rely on common sense rather than chasing low-cost, race-to-the-bottom marketplace trends. Treat networking profiles like a mini-website: A professional profile must operate as a sleek landing page complete with clear social proof. Master the three pillars of direct outreach: High-converting marketing relies on a streamlined sequence: Optimize, Connect, and Message. Leverage parallel co-working sessions: Bypass administrative procrastination by setting up parallel focus blocks with an accountability partner. Retain vision when outsourcing: Scaling a business requires delegation, but the owner must always retain absolute control over the brand's trajectory. Give yourself permission to breathe: Focus entirely on the substance of marketing rather than the arbitrary frequency of a social media posting schedule. Audit service agreements closely: Talent must actively protect their biological voiceprints by ensuring explicit protective clauses are embedded into every contract. Hold corporate standards for child talent: Treat child performances as a legitimate business by enforcing standard industry rates and following official best practices.  

Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The One-Take Pro vs. The Strategic Option (00:00 – 04:28) Anne and Lau open the show with a live demonstration of a second vocal take, using the contrast to introduce the mechanics of audition submissions. Lau points out a frustrating trend in modern casting: talent who fail to read basic script directions. The bosses establish the baseline rules: if a spec specifies a take count, follow it explicitly. However, if the specs are silent, up to two takes is the generalized sweet spot. Lau addresses why some elite, seasoned pros refuse to submit more than one take, explaining that the bosses are choosing to lead with their definitive signature strength rather than forcing a weaker backup option. Chapter 2: The Pay-to-Play Dynamic & The Pizza Parlor Analogy (04:29 – 08:39) Anne highlights a massive operational difference that new talent overlook: submitting an audition to a vetted talent agent is completely different from submitting to an open marketplace or pay-to-play platform. Vetted agents listen to performances all day and can spot baseline acting technique instantly. On an open marketplace, however, you might be auditioning for a small pizza parlor owner who has zero casting experience and can't articulate what the bosses want. Anne and Lau explain why open platforms require talent to submit a secondary take to showcase their versatility, serving as a tactical safety net against poorly written casting specs. Chapter 3: The Danger of the Blind AI Market (08:40 – 10:24) Lau injects a sobering reality check into the conversation, highlighting the alarming rise of highly advanced, naturalistic text-to-speech models. She warns that on unvetted, lower-budget casting platforms, talent cannot even guarantee that the "client" or the competing files are human beings. Anne notes that while generative models are capturing a specific segment of the automated market, human actors retain the upper hand on projects that demand deep narrative comprehension and emotional subtext. Chapter 4: Script Editing & Protecting Your Labor (10:25 – 14:03) Anne outlines her exact tactical blueprint for handling long-format corporate or narrative copy on open casting sites. If a client provides a full two-minute script without specifying a take count, never record the entire script for multiple takes. Anne recommends recording the beginning section as Take One to establish a baseline. For Take Two, do not repeat the first paragraph; instead, cut to the middle or end of the script to highlight a completely different emotional arc or technical delivery. This approach showcases your artistic range while protecting your professional labor from being used without compensation. Chapter 5: The 5-Second Rule & Audition Commitment (14:04 – 16:16) The hosts tackle the widespread industry rumor that casting directors only listen to the first five seconds of an audio file. While five seconds is the standard timeline for initial screening and weeding out unvetted files, clients listen significantly longer once the bosses narrow their pile down to a shortlist. Anne warns talent to never drop their commitment or soften their acting choices after the opening sentence, explaining that a great performance must maintain structural logic and narrative focus through the very last word of the submission. Chapter 6: Nuance vs. Overt Pitch Shifting (16:17 – 20:34) Anne and Lau break down what a genuine vocal variation actually sounds like. Lau warns against the common beginner trap of changing your pitch or adopting a random regional accent for a second take. True variation is built entirely on subtext, relationship dynamics, and energetic shifts. Anne connects this directly to her upcoming presentation at VO Atlanta on Emotional Intelligence in Narration, explaining how changing your mental relationship to the listener—such as shifting from an authoritative corporate authority figure to an equal, peer-to-peer friend—naturally alters the breathing, rhythm, and melody of your voice without sounding forced. Chapter 7: The Alliteration of Longevity: Care, Create, and Change (20:35 – End) Lau delivers her definitive framework for vocal training: Care, Create, and Change. She challenges talent to probe their own motivations, asking themselves "Why am I saying this?" and "How can I make the listener care?" before they hit record. Anne and Lau conclude by reminding talent that a true creative professional focuses entirely on the value they can offer the client, rather than obsessing over personal validation or worrying about what a stranger thinks of their voice print. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Directions are your primary filter: No matter how incredible your vocal range is, failing to follow technical filename structures, take counts, or file formats in a casting spec will get you screened out instantly. Two takes is the universal sweet spot: If an audition notice is completely silent regarding the take count, provide two distinct, contrasting reads to maximize your opportunities. Only submit what you can master: If your secondary vocal option sounds rushed, messy, or structurally identical to your first take, do not include it. A casting director will instantly assume you lack self-direction. Marketplaces demand structural variation: Direct buyers on unvetted casting sites rarely understand vocal terminology. Use a secondary take to protect your business against inaccurate or confusing casting specs. Protect your long-format files: When auditioning with long narration or corporate scripts, never record the entire text for multiple takes. Read the opening for Take One, and select a compelling middle or closing section for Take Two. Commit through the final punctuation mark: While initial screening rounds are fast, decision-makers listen closely to your entire file once you make the shortlist. Maintain your psychological connection through the final second of the track. Ditch the basic pitch shift: Changing your pitch or forcing an artificial accent for a second take sounds gimmicky. Real variety is achieved by altering your internal subtext and changing your relationship to the listener. Map your target audience relationships: Treat your copy like a dynamic conversation. Shift your delivery by imagining different listeners: read once as a corporate consultant speaking to an executive, and read again as a peer offering advice. Build a personal toolkit of 10 tactics: Develop a reliable mental list of ten performance adjustments—such as altering your physical posture, shifting your internal energy, or adjusting your breathing pace—to execute variations quickly during live director sessions. Implement Lau's 3 Cs: Build your business foundation around three pillars: Care deeply about the text, Create a distinct, committed world for your characters, and be ready to Change your tactics on a dime when a client requests an adjustment.  

Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The Roar of Madison Square Garden (00:00 – 02:57) Anne welcomes voice talent and business coach Tom Dheere back to the show. Tom explains his exhaustion, revealing that his neighborhood turned into a massive celebration zone after the New York Knicks won the NBA Championship. Anne shares a parallel memory of experiencing the World Cup celebration in Italy. They note how easy it is to get swept up in a major public triumph, sparking a deep conversation about the hidden work required behind a massive, visible victory. Chapter 2: What is Your Personal Championship? (02:58 – 04:31) Anne and Tom explore how success is rarely an accidental event. Tom challenges listeners to establish their own custom definition of "winning the championship." For a new voice actor, a title might mean booking their first paid gig, securing a national commercial, qualifying for SAG-AFTRA, or generating enough revenue to transition from a full-time day job to part-time creative work. Chapter 3: The Micro-Decision Metric & The Astronaut Analogy (04:32 – 08:25) Tom delivers a powerful perspective shift: your life and your VO career are not highlight reels. True career growth is built entirely on the micro-decisions made in the quiet moments between the milestones. Tom uses an excellent analogy comparing two college students who both want to be astronauts. Assuming equal talent and resources, the student who chooses to stay at their desk studying night after night while friends head to the pub is the one who ultimately makes it to space. Anne relates this to her personal struggle with college calculus, explaining how facing difficult, un-glamorous work builds mandatory professional humility. Chapter 4: Repetition, Homework, and the "Miyagi" Effect (08:26 – 10:25) Anne and Tom discuss the necessity of balancing the quantity of your practice with the quality of your execution. Tom references the classic Karate Kid metaphor: when Mr. Miyagi forces Daniel to paint the fence repetitively, it feels tedious and useless until that exact physical muscle memory becomes his primary shield in battle. Anne notes that this is exactly why she assigns heavy homework to her students, explaining that the real growth happens in the isolated, un-directed hours spent experiencing diverse scripts, handling audio editing, and analyzing text independently between coaching sessions. Chapter 5: Defining a Perfect VO Day & Tracking Patterns (10:26 – 14:43) Tom reveals the very first exercise he gives to his consulting students: detailing what a "perfect voiceover day" looks like, and then breaking down the 82 pre-season steps needed to make that day a reality. They treat auditions like individual games in a long season. Tom highlights why tracking your auditions is vital—not to obsess over your booking ratio, but to gather meta-data. By analyzing his past "thumbs up" ranking scores on Voice 123, Tom discovered a pattern: his primary booking keyword is "upbeat." He now uses that data to specifically filter and prioritize incoming casting notices. Chapter 6: Audition Desperation & The Character Accent Myth (14:44 – 20:20) Anne shares that her highest-booking auditions are consistently the ones she didn't over-analyze or obsess over, allowing her to deliver a natural, storytelling-focused read. Tom explains the corporate psychology behind this: buyers can smell performance desperation. He calls out a major cultural trend where new talent obsess over pitch adjustments and complex accents for animation or gaming, warning that dialects mean nothing if the underlying performance lacks real human connection. Tom uses his background narrating over 70 audiobooks to explain that a heavy accent should never get in the way of a compelling story. Chapter 7: The Production Team & The 3 Ps of Success (20:21 – End) Using basketball as a launching point, Anne and Tom examine the many moving pieces that contribute to a successful voiceover career and production. Together, they discuss the importance of teamwork, adaptability, and professionalism, and why the most successful voice actors learn to balance artistic fulfillment with business realities. Drawing on more than 38 years of combined full-time experience, they conclude with a powerful framework for career longevity: Passion, Practice, and Persistence—the 3 Ps that have helped sustain their own careers and countless others. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Define your own title: Success in the voiceover marketplace is personal. Do not measure your worth against someone else's trophy room; identify the specific professional milestones that equal a win for your business. Ditch the highlight reel mindset: Landmark moments like booking a major corporate client or launching a new website are rare. Your real business is formed by the quiet, un-glamorous work you execute on a rainy Tuesday morning. Master your micro-decisions: Longevity is built incrementally. Choosing to practice copy analysis, market your services, or clean your studio booth instead of succumbing to distractions is the daily habit that separates astronauts from dreamers. The lesson is in the doing: Do not rely on your coach to hand-hold your development. True vocal authority is forged through repetitive script interaction, self-direction, and navigating audio editing hurdles independently. Treat auditions like game tape: Use your submissions as a tool to collect raw data. Track where your auditions originate, identify the performance specifications, and look for structural trends over a 60-to-90-day window. Let the algorithm guide your focus: Platforms like Voice 123 reward positive listener interactions. Analyze your "likes" or shortlisted notices to discover your signature vocal keywords, and use that data to target similar copy. Drop the desperation: The harder you try to force a performative "announcer" melody onto a script, the faster a client will pass on your file. Ground your energy, lean into the narrative truth, and read without artificial worry. Acting outweighs accents: A casting director will instantly forgive an imperfect dialect if the character feels deeply connected, present, and humanly engaged. Prioritize psychological truth over vocal impressions. You are a player, not the whole team: Remember that a voice actor is one specific cog in a much larger production wheel. Show up to sessions directable, pleasant, organized, and ready to collaborate with engineers and directors. Harness the power of the 5-year wall: If you can commit to the industry, learn from your failures, and actively market your booth for longer than five consecutive years, your statistical probability of long-term commercial success skyrockets.

2026-06-22 Update From Anne: This conversation with Hunter Peterson was recorded before the bankruptcy court bidding process discussed in the interview had concluded. Since then, plans have changed -  Hunter and his team are now focused on building a brand-new airline rather than acquiring an existing one.   One thing I've learned from talking with entrepreneurs over the years is that the path to success is rarely a straight line. Sometimes the most exciting opportunities come from adapting, pivoting, and embracing a new vision. I'm so excited to see where this next chapter takes him, and I'm super grateful he shared his journey with us. I'm looking forward to welcoming him back to the podcast and hearing how things progress. Enjoy the episode!   From the VO booth to billions of impressions! In this extraordinary episode of the VO Boss Podcast, Anne Ganguzza sits down with voice actor, content producer, and creative entrepreneur Hunter Peterson. Hunter breaks down his viral movement, Spirit 2.0 (Let's Buy Spirit), which has captured 19.5 billion impressions and evolved into a legitimate corporate contender in bankruptcy court.   Discover how Hunter applied the core mechanics of voice acting, content strategy, and digital storytelling to mobilize an army of investors. He shares the raw, chaotic realities of real-time entrepreneurial pivots, navigating intense SEC regulations, overcoming massive public missteps, and why human accountability is the ultimate secret weapon to beating traditional private equity.   What you'll learn in this episode: The precise viral content math Hunter used to test his record-breaking videos. Why Hunter went from hating Spirit Airlines to leading a movement to buy it. The chilling complexities of purchasing an Airline Operating Certificate (AOC) out of bankruptcy. Why you don't need a flawless plan to launch a successful business.  

Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The Cosmic Zipper — From Silicon Valley to Telltale Games (00:01 – 04:13) Anne introduces BAFTA award-winning actor Cissy Jones, listing her massive credits across the video game landscape. Cissy shares her unique origin story, starting not in theater, but in the fast-paced venture capital world of Silicon Valley. Despite an early childhood calling to act, she followed corporate expectations until a profound sense of unhappiness led her to a voiceover school. Cissy introduces her concept of the "cosmic zipper"—that beautiful alignment where life clicks together once you finally uncover your true purpose. Within two years of rigorous study, she booked her first massive multi-character rolepacket as Katya in Telltale Games' The Walking Dead. Chapter 2: The Ultimate Boss Move & The Impact of the Mic (04:14 – 07:47) Anne pauses to highlight an incredible tactical move from Cissy's early days: learning how to engineer audioaudio engineer sessions when she couldn't afford a class ticket, allowing her to stay in the casting room and absorb director feedback through osmosis. Cissy highlights her deep appreciation for characters like Lilith in Disney's The Owl House. She recounts emotional fan interactions at Comic-Cons, where parents and children shared how her character's arc helped them process their own queer or neurodivergent identities, reinforcing the true purpose of human storytelling. Chapter 3: Mastering Storytelling & Leaning Into Vulnerability (07:48 – 11:44) Anne asks Cissy what internal mechanics make a voice actor a master storyteller. Cissy credits her willingness to tap deeply into intense, unshielded human emotion on demand. She offers a crucial piece of advice for talent exploring the character and interactive space: when a script calls for real, raw emotion, do not paint over it with cartoony comedy. Voice actors must lean courageously into authentic psychological vulnerability while carefully managing their own mental well-being when a heavy scene leaves them emotionally drained. Chapter 4: The 3-Second Threat & The AI Wake-Up Call (11:45 – 17:31) The conversation turns to advocacy as Cissy recounts a terrifying experience during the 2021 COVID lockdown. Fans alerted her to AI voice clone platforms generating pornographic content using her vocal likeness from The Owl House. When she demanded a takedown, the platforms refused, citing a complete lack of protective voice laws. Cissy breaks down a jarring technological reality: in 2021, creating a believable vocal clone required roughly 10 hours of studio audio; today, it takes just 3 seconds. She highlights why NAVA is actively working with legislators to target security loopholes, citing an experiment where NAVA co-founder Karin Gilfrey successfully bypassed her personal bank security using an AI clone of her own voice. Chapter 5: Ethovox — Creating a Safe Haven Under Lock and Key (17:32 – 24:03) Drawing on her technical venture capital background, Cissy shares why she refused to sit idly by and instead launched her own ethical AI startup called Ethovox. Unlike predatory public marketplaces that ingest and trade off voice talent data, Ethovox operates as a highly secure, private repository. The company explicitly mandates full actor consent, works hand-in-hand with talent agencies to negotiate fair rates, and refuses to sell baseline training data. Cissy reveals a massive boss move: walking away from a lucrative seven-figure institutional funding offer because the investors admitted they did not care if voice actors survived. Chapter 6: The Fight in D.C. & How the VO Community Can Help (24:04 – End) Cissy praises NAVA's leadership—specifically Tim Friedlander, CKarin Gilfrey, and Matthew Parham—for their relentless, bipartisan legislative efforts in Washington, D.C., to pass protections such aspushes in Washington, D.C. to pass protections like the federal No Fakes Act. She stresses that while Washington politicians may not inherently care about actors, they care deeply about cybersecurity risks and digital identity theft affecting their voters. The episode wraps with an urgent call to action for the VO community to support NAVA through membership dues, alongside an invitation to participate in NAVA's annual Day of Play charity streaming event. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Watch for the "Cosmic Zipper": If you are forcing a career path and constantly meeting friction and exhaustion, step back. When you strike the path you were truly meant to walk, the doors lock into place effortlessly. Immerse yourself through service: If you cannot afford premium training starting out, find alternative ways to be in the room. Learn to engineer, edit, or assist so you can witness directing choices and build organic network connections. Storytelling demands real human impact: Vocal mechanics mean absolutely nothing if your performance isn't reaching past the microphone to touch, change, or validate the human experience of the listener. Don't hide behind a cartoon read: When a script asks for deep psychological weight or heavy sorrow, do not soften the blow with safe, performative humor. Stand confidently in your vulnerability. Acknowledge the 3-second reality: Vocal cloning technology requires as little as 3 seconds of pristine audio—meaning your outgoing cell phone voicemail clip is enough to compromise security systems or clone your identity. AI needs ethical boundaries: Innovation cannot be stopped, but it must be met with the three foundational pillars of advocacy: absolute Consent, fair Compensation, and structural Control over personal vocal assets. Protect your core data: Avoid voice AI platforms that treat your unique biological voiceprint as disposable ammunition to train broader, open-source language models. Reputation over revenue: True leaders know when to walk away. Cissy's rejection of a massive seven-figure check because investors devalued human talent is the ultimate blueprint for protecting your personal integrity over a quick paycheck. Bipartisan framing is key in advocacy: When pushing for systemic change or workplace protections, leave personal political ideologies outside the room. Speak directly to staffers about the universal dangers of digital kidnapping, fraud, and corporate IP theft. A rising tide lifts all boats: Success in this industry is never a zero-sum game. There is plenty of room for creative minds to flourish. Lift your peers up, guard each other's rights, and protect the human element.  

There is nothing we love more than a good listener question episode. It is the absolute best way for my Business Superpowers co-host, Lau Lapides, and me to connect directly with you bosses and dig into what you are actually experiencing in your daily business. Recently, we combed through a handful of listener questions, and one from a listener named Ben immediately stopped us in our tracks: "What are voice actors wasting the most time on right now?" Oh boy. Get comfortable, because Lau and I did not hold back. From the black hole of digital over-exposure to the exact mechanics of a genuine read, we broke down what you need to stop doing—and what you need to start focusing on—to take your business to the next level. Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The Trap of Self-Sabotage and Analysis Paralysis (00:01 – 04:10) Anne kicks off the listener Q&A with Ben's question about where voice talent waste the most time. Lau immediately calls out the silent killer of VO careers: intentional or unintentional self-sabotage. She describes how talent waste massive amounts of mental energy second-guessing auditions, wondering why they didn't get a booking, and obsessing over whether a client "liked" them. Anne shares how surviving cancer completely transformed her perspective in the booth, freeing her from minor anxieties and giving her permission to just have fun, audition, forget it, and move on. Chapter 2: Fantasizing vs. Actively Doing the Hard Work (04:11 – 07:53) Anne and Lau shift the spotlight to a different kind of time-wasting: thinking about the work instead of actually doing the work. They discuss talent who get trapped "fantasizing" about the perfect gig or complaining that they "just need to market more" without sending a single email. Lau warns that a wild creative imagination is a gift for acting, but a massive liability when it comes to the logical, disciplined day-to-day realities of running a small business, tracking invoices, and practicing script homework. Chapter 3: Digital Exposure, Brain Overload, and the Power of the "Share" (07:54 – 13:42) Lau introduces the danger of digital over-exposure and "dopamine addiction" online. Anne admits to the ongoing battle of keeping too many browser tabs open (shoutout to all the fashion buffs out there!), and Lau explains how overdosing on digital stimuli—even high-intensity entertainment like horror movies or daytime dramas—can alter your brain waves and derail your focus. To combat isolation and comparisonitis, they recommend building a tight-knit inner circle of colleagues to break your mental bubbles and celebrate wins constructively. Chapter 4: The Myth of the "Easy" Read and the Olympian Metaphor (13:43 – 16:44) The hosts tackle the frustrating reality that both new talent and bad clients minimize the value of voice acting because "it looks easy." Anne uses a great metaphor involving the Southern California lottery for Olympic tickets: elite gymnasts and swimmers make their movements look completely effortless, yet no one assumes they can jump onto a balance beam and replicate it. Professional voice acting requires the exact same unseen, high-level athletic discipline. Chapter 5: Gravitas, Empathy, and Decoupling the "Low Voice" (16:45 – 19:14) Anne raises another major listener question: What does authenticity actually sound like, and how does it relate to the industry's current obsession with "authority"? Lau notes that breakdown specs are constantly demanding "gravitas" and "assertiveness," especially for women. However, they debunk the myth that gravitas requires an artificially low pitch. True authority comes from a deep frame of reference and understanding your target market's specific culture—whether you are a 48-year-old corporate narrator or an 8-year-old expert talking about Pokémon. Chapter 6: The "physicating" Framework and Keeping Auditions Raw (19:15 – End) Anne breaks down the exact training method she teaches in her precision narration classes: acting is never a primary action; it is always an empathetic reaction to a problem. She shares her famous "Jersey Girl" driving example to outline her step-by-step performance framework: Breathe, Focus, Physicalize (or "Physicate"), and Speak. Lau and Anne close the show by urging talent to stop editing out the raw, human elements of their commercial and animation auditions, opting for a bit of authentic grit over artificial perfection. Top 10 Boss Takeaways Ditch the audition autopsy: Wondering why you didn't book a gig is a form of procrastination. Fire off the audition, forget it completely, and redirect that energy into your next project. Analysis leads to paralysis: Second-guessing the client's internal thoughts stops your creative momentum. Give yourself permission to fail forward. Discipline your imagination: Your creative brain is a beautiful tool for script interpretation, but keep it out of your business operations. Run your invoices, tech updates, and marketing with cold, hard logic. Guard your digital environment: Overdosing on social media scrolling and endless digital tabs alters your focus. Protect your mental health by setting strict boundaries on your screen time. Break the isolation bubble: When you find yourself trapped in a negative mental rerun, pick up the phone or hop on a call with a trusted business peer who can ground you back in reality. Immunity over insecurity: Stop letting other people's online wins trigger your insecurities. Use your community's success stories as a roadmap to learn what is currently working in the marketplace. Effortless execution takes years: If your delivery sounds like "just reading," you are doing it right. Treat the illusion of simplicity as a professional compliment, but never let a client use it to devalue your rates. Gravitas isn't a vocal register: True authority and credibility have absolutely nothing to do with how low your voice can go. True gravitas is rooted in confidence, presence, and direct connection. Master the art of "Physicating": Before you speak a single word of a script, run through Anne's four pillars: Breathe naturally, Focus on the unwritten moment before, Physicalize the reaction with your body, and then Speak. Keep it a little dirty: Stop turning in overly polished, perfectly scrubbed, sterile audio files for commercial and animation auditions. Leave the natural breaths and human imperfections in the track—casting directors want a real human being, not an algorithm.

Episode Chapter Summaries Chapter 1: The Rochester Connection & The Johnny Fever Dream (00:00 – 03:51) Anne introduces her longtime friend Tim Powers. They bond over their shared Rochester, NY, background, noting that growing up there fosters a natural sense of grit, humor, and raw honesty. Tim shares his origin story, starting as a kid with a voice that dropped way too early in 1978. Growing up in a massive, hilarious family where you had to be funny just to get noticed, Tim fell in love with radio icons and comedy legends, dreaming of becoming the next Johnny Fever. Chapter 2: The "Clark Kent" Years & Transition to the Improv Stage (03:52 – 08:34) Tim discusses his early years in radio, cueing up vinyl records, learning to think on his feet, and mastering spontaneous communication. However, minimum-wage radio couldn't pay the bills, leading to decades of "Clark Kent" day jobs. In his 30s, a friend dragged him to an improv theater tryout. Despite not being a traditional theater kid, Tim discovered that the improv stage was exactly where he learned structural acting, performance pacing, and the ultimate art of letting go. Chapter 3: The Philosophy of "Yes, And" in Voiceover (08:35 – 12:40) Tim shares his journey moving from his hometown to Los Angeles, training with iconic schools like The Groundlings and Upright Citizens Brigade, and eventually transitioning back behind the microphone under the mentorship of the late Lori Tritel and animation legend Michael Bell. Anne and Tim unpack the zen philosophy of "Yes, And." They discuss how voice actors spin too many mental plates trying to be perfect, when their only job is to accept the information given to them by the copy and boldly add their own life experiences to it. Chapter 4: Making Bold Choices vs. The Robotic Read (12:41 – 19:28) Anne and Tim challenge the idea of trying to read the casting director's mind. Tim points out that in an industry overflowing with talented talent, the only thing that separates you from a room full of people matching your exact technical specifications is your unique life experience. They look at how improv empowers talent to trust their gut and make fast, definitive character choices rather than hunting for a safe, sterile melody. Chapter 5: The "Dude" Knowledge & Grounding Corporate Narration (19:29 – 23:48) The conversation gets tactical as Anne and Tim explain the power of improvising your lead-ins. Tim demonstrates how a simple lead-in word like "dude" acts as the tip of a massive, subtextual iceberg. They argue that this work isn't just for wacky characters or high-energy commercials; it is also mandatory for all genres, including corporate narration and e-learning. To compete with cheap, perfect AI bots, human actors must bring a developed backstory, a natural breathing arc, and authentic physical transitions to the text. Chapter 6: The Truth About Demo Production & Acting Accountability (23:49 – 33:32) Anne and Tim have a candid, hard conversation about the current state of industry coaching. They address the hard truth that voiceover is a professional acting discipline that cannot be mastered in four to eight short weeks. They discuss their shared responsibility as demo producers, explaining why they refuse to cash a student's check for a demo if that student isn't consistently audition-ready. Tim shares a classic Hollywood story about the legendary "$500 demo trucks" parked outside major studios and warns why decision-makers spot those corner-cutting shortcuts instantly. Chapter 7: Garbage Plates, White Hots, and the Drop-In (33:33 – End) Tim details how talent can train with him via his zero-barrier-to-entry weekly drop-in Zoom workshop, Timprov, and his regular coaching site. The episode wraps up with a hilarious trip down memory lane as Anne and Tim talk classic Rochester culinary staples—including the legendary "garbage plate" hangover cure, Wegmans grocery stores, and Zweigel's white hots—before locking in plans for a future collaborative live-streaming workshop episode.   Top 10 Boss Takeaways Acting is reacting: Real conversations are never premeditated. Every single script you read requires you to look at the words as an immediate response to an event that just happened. Embrace the "Yes, And" mindset: Stop fighting the copy or over-analyzing the client's intent. Accept the scenario given to you by the writer, agree with it wholeheartedly, and add your specific central nervous system to it. Natural beats perfect: If voiceover were solely about flawless technical precision, one person would hold all the work. Auditions book because of raw human imperfection and compelling storytelling. Instinct over mechanics: If you are listening to the sound of your own voice or focusing on your vocal melody while recording, you are completely out of the scene. Ditch the "Voiceover Artist" label: Tim reminds us that artists make sandwiches at Subway. You are an actor who uses your voice. Own that title, and do the internal script analysis required of real actors. Master the customized lead-in: Never launch directly into the first line of text dry. Build a fully formed, improvised phrase right before the first word to establish a genuine emotional point of view. Develop the "Dude Knowledge": A single lead-in word can  serve as shorthand for a massive, unwritten backstory. Is your subtext "Dude, you're about to get fired" or "Dude, I've got the coolest secret to tell you"? Know the difference before you pull context into the microphone. AI can read—humans must connect: Perfect, pretty, and cheap reads can be generated by algorithms all day long. The only defense against automation is your messy, un-replicable life experience. Demos are a reflection of audition readiness: A professional demo is designed to show a casting director what you can deliver on the fly. If you aren't ready to book an elite audition on your own, you are not ready to cut a demo. Find coaches who hold you accountable: Avoid any production factories that promise stardom in record time. Work with industry thought leaders who aren't afraid to give you the hard, necessary truths about your current performance level.

Episode Chapter Summaries   Chapter 1: The "Overacting" Trap (00:01 – 02:23)   The episode kicks off with a surprise coaching moment. Lau calls out Anne's high-energy podcast introduction for being too "schmaltzy" and performative. They dissect the difference between an overacted line and a grounded delivery, introducing the idea of "throwing the line away" to find the real truth in the copy.   Chapter 2: The Booth Barrier & Generational Gaps (02:24 – 06:31) Anne and Lau discuss how difficult it is to connect with a human being while staring at unmemorized words inside an isolated booth. They explore a fascinating generational shift: younger talent who are used to digital-first communication (texting, Snapchat) often struggle with the traditional advice to "just talk to someone." Lau shares an anecdote about her team resisting turning on cameras during Zoom meetings, highlighting a modern hesitation with being "fully present" visually.   Chapter 3: The Transparent Script & The "Inside Voice" (06:32 – 10:53) How do you visualize a listener? Anne suggests imagining that the script itself is completely transparent and that your listener is standing right behind it. Lau pitches a counter-intuitive technique: if you can't imagine talking to an outside party, don't. Instead, treat the script as an internal monologue—a voyeuristic, "indoor voice" diary entry where the audience simply overhears your private thoughts.   Chapter 4: The Narration Debate & Physicality (10:54 – 14:43)   Anne and Lau good-naturedly butt heads over long-format narration. While Anne insists that narration requires keeping the listener's needs in mind to shape the melody of the voice, Lau argues that true empathy allows the actor to experience the story's physiology internally. They find common ground in the concept of physicality, agreeing that natural, unforced body movements (like a head tilt or an eyebrow raise) naturally build authentic rhythm.   Chapter 5: Lowering the Stakes & The "Duologue" (14:44 – 21:16) The hosts challenge the classic acting note to "raise the stakes." Artificial high stakes often equal artificial stress. They suggest grounding your performance by lowering the stakes and speaking to the audience as intelligent adults. They also officially ban the word "monologue" in favor of "duologue"—a term that ensures your performance always encompasses another entity and never becomes self-centered.   Chapter 6: The Artemis Connection (21:17 – End) Anne notes that even when addressing a large boardroom or audience, you must always look at and speak to one person at a time to maintain empathy. They close the episode with a beautiful metaphor inspired by the Artemis space mission: even when the spacecraft lost radio communication behind the moon, it never lost connection to the mission. They remind talent to stay universally connected to the core truth of their copy.   Top 10 Boss Takeaways Throw it away: Audiences want to hear you thinking, not performing. Treat key words with a mental shrug rather than over-emphasizing them. Beware the booth barrier: Connection must start before you open your mouth. Assess the mood and the scene before reading. The script is transparent: If you struggle to visualize a listener, imagine looking directly through the words into the eyes of a real person. Embrace the "indoor voice": Many modern commercial scripts are voyeuristic. Let the audience sneak up on your thoughts rather than you shouting out to them. Shift from monologue to duologue: Never look at a script as a solo speech. It is always a dialogue with another entity, even if that entity is your own internal self. Empathy is everything: No matter your technique, you must deeply understand and feel the experience of the copy to prevent a robotic delivery. Let your body react naturally: Don't force artificial gestures, but stay loose enough to let your natural physicality dictate the rhythm and melody of your voice. Lower the stakes: Artificial high energy feels fake. Ground your enthusiasm to connect with your listener like an intelligent peer. Talk to one, not the air: When reading corporate or presentation copy, do not speak to a vague crowd. Compartmentalize the audience and speak directly to one person. Never drop the connection: Most talent only connect on the first two sentences before reverting to "reading mode." Maintain the relationship through the very last word.  

The Three Portals: Mastering Your Voiceover Representation Strategy Voiceover Representation Strategy BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) tackle one of the biggest myths in the industry: that you need an agent to be successful. While representation is a vital part of a long-term voiceover representation strategy, it is only one of three "portals" to booking work. In this episode, Tom and Anne demystify the Business-to-Business (B2B) nature of the actor-agent relationship, the financial reality of why agents don't typically cast non-broadcast work, and how major social shifts have permanently altered how rosters are curated in 2026.     Chapter Summaries: The Three Portals of VO Work (02:17) Tom introduces his "Three Portals" framework for booking work: Representation (Agents/Managers), Online Casting Sites (P2P and free), and Self-Marketing (Direct outreach/SEO). He emphasizes that for most talent, representation is actually the smallest portal, while self-marketing and online casting provide the bulk of steady income. Why Agents Skip Non-Broadcast Work (06:00) There is a clear economic reason why agents focus on broadcast: Usage Fees. Tom explains that an agent taking 10% of a $250 audiobook finished hour ($25) isn't sustainable for their business. They are looking for the "rebuys" and licensed spots in radio, TV, and streaming that pay thousands in license fees, making their commission worthwhile. Agents vs. Managers: The Smoke-Filled Room (25:19) While agents primarily manage casting notices and file labeling, managers take a higher stake in your overall career development. A manager may take a percentage of all your income (typically 15-20%) because they are actively promoting you to other agents and "talking you up" in the industry's metaphorical VIP lounges. Democratized Casting and Diversity (33:45) The industry has undergone a massive shift toward authenticity and inclusion. Tom and Anne discuss how movements like Me Too and George Floyd changed casting specs "overnight." Today, rosters are smaller but more diverse, meaning talent must find their unique "X-factor" to fill a specific demographic or stylistic need on a roster. The "Agent Ready" Checklist (09:06) Before submitting, you must be "agent ready." This includes having a perfected website, a calibrated home studio, and a killer demo. If you cannot follow submission criteria to the letter (e.g., naming your file exactly as requested), the only thing an agent learns is that you cannot take direction. The Referrer: Casting Directors (29:32) Casting directors (CDs) don't represent you, but they are your biggest advocates. In 2026, the most effective way to get an agent is through a CD referral. By taking workshops and reading for CDs, you build a relationship that can lead to an introduction when an agent asks, "Who do you have that sounds like X?"     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Agents Enhance, They Don't Create: An agent will make a successful career more successful, but they won't build one from scratch for you. It's a B2B Relationship: You don't work for your agent. You work with them as a business partner. Audit Your Portals: Balance your workload across all three portals (Rep, P2P, Direct) so you aren't devastated if one client or agent drops. Broadcast is the Goal for Reps: If you want an agent, focus on commercial, promo, and high-level gaming demos. Follow Directions Exactly: Agent submission is your first "direction" test. Failure to follow labeling or subject line rules results in an immediate "delete." Clean Up Your Socials: Agents and managers check your social media. Avoid inflammatory, whiny, or NDA-violating posts that could damage their reputation. Know the Rebuy: A major benefit of representation is their ability to track and negotiate "rebuys" or renewals for your spots. Diversity is an Asset: rosters in 2026 prize authenticity. Own your unique background and use it as a selling point. Utilize NAVA Benefits: Use National Association of Voice Actors (NAVA) resources for professional contract reviews before signing with a manager. Relationships Over Cold Emails: Focus on building face-to-face (or screen-to-screen) rapport with casting directors to earn referrals.  

Voiceover Performance Techniques In the modern VO landscape, "conversational" has become a buzzword that often results in flat, disengaged reads. Anne Ganguzza sits down with the iconic Elaine Clark—author of There's Money Where Your Mouth Is—to discuss all things VO and her latest work, Speak to Achieve. Elaine argues that to be a true VO BOSS, you must move beyond the logical brain and into a high-level voiceover performance technique that blends theater, advertising strategy, and subconscious "reprogramming." The M.I.N.E. System: Motivation, Intention, Need, and Emotions Elaine's core methodology focuses on identifying the Problem (the moment before you speak) and the Need (the solution provided by the product or service). By anchoring your read in these two "bookends," you avoid the "flatline" story. The Problem: The pain point the audience is feeling right now. The Need: Why you must speak to them to provide the fix. The Rhetorical Triangle: Ethos, Logos, and Pathos Most actors get stuck in the Logos (the logic of the words). To book high-level corporate and medical work, you must master: Ethos (Authority): Owning the subject matter in your bones. Pathos (Emotion): Connecting to the audience's struggle. Logos (Logic): Delivering the information clearly. "Authority isn't a high school principal bounding down the hallway; it's someone who knows the truth so deeply they don't have to think about it." — Elaine Clark     Chapter Highlights: Navigating the Script (08:34) Breaking the Silicon Valley Code: How Elaine translates "woo-woo" acting concepts into actionable "code" for tech professionals and corporate narrators. (10:38) The Power Box & Physicality: Why standing still in front of a mic kills your performance. Discover how purposeful kinesthetic movement keeps your thoughts and voice in sync. (19:50) Pattern Recognition: Every script follows a universal arc: Setup, Body, and Resolve. Identify the pattern, and you can master any cold read. (31:53) The Doctor POV Exercise: A masterclass in "Point of View." Learn to channel a doctor who has 10 minutes per patient, a pile of charts, and a slight annoyance with note-taking to create a gritty, believable performance.     Top 10 Takeaways for the Strategic Voice Artist Neutral is the Enemy: If you sound neutral, you sound fake. Pick a side and have an opinion. Suggest, Don't Sell: The "hard sell" triggers listener resistance. Shift your mindset to making a helpful "suggestion." Ditch "Objectives" for "Needs": Corporate jargon stays in your head. Human "needs" live in your heart and body. The "Family of Nerds" Study: Observe real-world postures and gaits to physically "wear" your character in the booth. Look for the Surprise: High-value reads identify the "shift" or surprise in a script—that's where the human connection lives. The "Honky D" Pitch Shift: Learn when to "hunker down" and drop your pitch to signify a transition from problem to solution. Overlearn to Build Trust: The more you understand about copywriting and ad agency workflows, the more you'll trust your instincts. Sync Your Feet to Your Voice: Grounding your physicality prevents that disembodied "eye-to-mouth" disconnect. Ignore the Specs (Sometimes): If casting specs are conflicting, focus on the audience's problem. Solve that, and the tone will follow. The First Word is the Most Important: Your performance starts 10 seconds before the first word. If the "moment before" isn't real, the rest won't be either.  

OSSes, are you tired of being stuck in your booth with no one to talk to but your DAW?

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) ring in the new year with a reality check on modern voiceover career strategy. In an industry increasingly influenced by AI and market saturation, the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach is no longer viable. This episode is a deep dive into the power of focus—mastering one genre at a time, picking the right marketing portals, and closing the "relevance gap" by becoming a high-level human storyteller.     Chapter Summaries: The Relevance Gap and AI (10:45) Tom introduces the "relevance gap"—the widening space between aspiring talent and working professionals. He argues that AI is rapidly consuming low-budget, entry-level work. To remain relevant, talent must move beyond simply "reading well" and invest in high-level storytelling skills (acting, improv, stand-up) that AI cannot yet replicate. The Danger of the Multi-Demo Rush (03:55) The hosts notice a troubling trend: new talent getting five demos produced before they've mastered a single genre. This lack of focus leads to "sucking at everything." Anne emphasizes that even 20 coaching sessions might not be enough to reach the competitive level required for a professional demo in today's saturated market. Passion vs. Pragmatism: Reconciling Your Goals (15:19) While many enter VO wanting to do anime or video games, the market for corporate, e-learning, and medical narration is significantly larger. Tom suggests a pragmatic voiceover career strategy: use "bread and butter" genres like corporate work (where there are over 33 million potential clients) to fund your passion projects in character and animation work. The Myth of Social Media ROI (24:34) Tom reveals startling statistics on social media ROI for voice actors: Facebook (0.77%) and Twitter (0.69%) pale in comparison to LinkedIn (2.74%). While still low, LinkedIn represents a business-minded audience. The hosts warn that "enpoopification"—the decline of social media quality due to algorithms—makes it harder than ever to find work through standard posting. The "New SEO": Getting Found by Chatbots (27:39) Anne shifts the focus to a forward-thinking strategy: SEO for AI. Companies are increasingly asking chatbots like ChatGPT or Claude for voice actor recommendations. To stay competitive, talent must populate their websites and blogs with high-quality, human-written content that these bots can index and recommend. The 2026 Focus Challenge (30:21) Tom issues a challenge to all VO Bosses: Pick one genre, one casting site, and one social media platform to focus on this year. By concentrating energy rather than scattering it, talent can build true momentum and authority in a specific corner of the market.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Close the Relevance Gap: Invest in professional acting and storytelling training to stay ahead of AI-generated voices. Focus on One Genre First: Master the nuances and audience of one genre before producing a demo or marketing yourself in another. Market Pragmatism: Target the corporate and e-learning markets for consistent cash flow while you build your "passion" skills in animation. Avoid "Demo Bundle" Traps: Be wary of packages offering multiple demos for a deal; quality training takes time and individual focus for each genre. Audit Your Marketing Portals: Don't join every pay-to-play site at once. Pick one that aligns with your primary genre and master its algorithm. Prioritize LinkedIn: For B2B genres like corporate narration, LinkedIn offers a significantly higher ROI than other social platforms. Optimize for AI Search: Ensure your website's FAQ and Home pages are rich with pertinent information so chatbots can find and recommend you. Use Low-Budget Sites as Proving Grounds: Use sites like Fiverr or Casting Call Club for practice and project management experience, not as a final career destination. Human Content Wins: Write blogs and website copy with a "human-first" approach to reclaim search authority from AI-generated spam. The Foundation is Acting: Foundational acting skills are transferable across all genres. Master the craft first, and the genre proficiency will follow.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza welcomes Paul Cartwright, an MFA-trained actor whose career spans Shakespearean stages in the UK to high-stakes on-camera work in Los Angeles. Paul shares his unexpected and successful transition from acting to voiceover, proving that "pipes" are secondary to performance. This episode is a masterclass in resilience, the importance of "text-first" training, and how to maintain a sustainable business while navigating the extreme highs and lows of the entertainment industry.     Chapter Summaries: The MFA Advantage: Text-Based Training (03:39) Paul discusses how his MFA training at the Royal Conservatory in the UK shaped his performance style. Unlike the "add emotion" approach common in some American training, the British tradition focuses heavily on the text. Paul explains that "everything you need is in the text," and learning to unlock an authentic voice through rigorous script analysis became his competitive edge in voiceover. The "Door-to-Door" Hustle and 2 AM Practice (06:33) Paul candidly shares the reality of moving to LA with an MFA but no industry connections. To support his family of six, he worked door-to-door sales while spending his nights from 11 PM to 4 AM practicing voiceover. He emphasizes that there is no "workaround" for talent; building a career requires thousands of hours of recording, listening back, and researching. Befriending Fear: A Key to Growth (13:38) Paul identifies fear as a constant companion rather than an enemy. By acknowledging fear and "holding hands" with it, he was able to stop letting it paralyze his learning process. He reframed mistakes as "learning experiences" rather than humiliations, a mindset shift that allowed him to take bigger creative risks in his auditions. Reframing Rejection: David Wright and Disney (21:07) Paul tells a powerful story about auditioning for the head of casting at Disney Animation. After initially being told he wasn't ready, he was given a second chance, worked relentlessly for a week, and eventually earned an endorsement. However, he notes that even a Disney-level endorsement didn't lead to immediate work, teaching him that success is a long-term numbers game, not a single moment of arrival. The "Stop Trying" Commercial Breakthrough (27:28) Despite his extensive acting background, Paul struggled to book commercials until a session with Tina Morasko. He realized he was trying too hard to be "poetic" or "actorly." Once he learned to stop trying and just read the copy as himself, he booked a McDonald's commercial the next day, which became a turning point for his consistent income. Management vs. Agency: The Power of the Hustle (30:52) Paul discusses the difference between top-tier agencies and dedicated management. After being dropped by a major agency, he found manager Brandon Cohen (BAC Talent), whose relentless "hustle" and belief in Paul's talent doubled his income annually for three years. He reminds talent that it's not about the agency's name, but who is actively fighting to get you in front of clients.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Text is King: Base your performance on what is written in the script, not by layering arbitrary emotions onto the copy. No Workarounds: Even with an MFA or natural talent, you must put in the "midnight hours" of practice to master the technical and artistic side of VO. Acknowledge Fear: Stop trying to eliminate fear. Acknowledge it, and keep moving forward with it as your passenger. Stop Trying So Hard: In commercial work, clients want you, not your acting training. Authenticity beats "turning a phrase" every time. Rejection is "Not Now": Reframe every "no" as "not the right time for this specific product," which removes the pressure from each audition. Trust the Numbers: Success is a numbers game. Aim for a high volume of quality auditions (Paul does 170–200 monthly) to increase your booking odds. Find a Fighter: Whether an agent or a manager, prioritize working with people who believe in your brand and will hustle to get you shortlisted. Direct Communication: Don't be afraid to reach out to industry idols for advice (like Paul did with Pat Fraley), but always respect their time and pay for their expertise. Vulnerability is Strength: Being honest about your struggles and fears makes you a more relatable and connected performer. The MFA to VO Path: Acting training for stage and screen is highly transferable to VO, provided you can condense your rehearsal process into a few minutes.

The Mind of a Voiceover Legend: Spike Spencer Voiceover Mindset and Performance BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza welcomes Spike Spencer, a veteran whose voice has defined iconic series like Evangelion, Pokemon, and World of Warcraft. But Spike isn't just an actor; he's a certified Master NLP Coach who understands that the "pipes" are only a tool—the real engine is the subconscious. This episode dives into the practical application of Neuro-Linguistic Programming in the booth, the evolution of the anime industry over 30 years, and how to "anchor" yourself into a winning state before you even hit record.     Chapter Summaries: 30 Years of Anime: From VHS to Instantaneous (10:58) Spike reflects on the technological shift in the industry. Thirty years ago, dubbing involved recording to VHS tapes and mailing them to Japan for feedback. Today, it's instantaneous and script-free. He notes that the speed of modern gaming and anime sessions requires actors to rely solely on instinct and advanced cold-reading skills. NLP 101 for Actors: Subconscious Listening (23:29) Spike explains Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP) as the "study of excellence." He emphasizes that your subconscious is always listening to your internal dialogue. If you tell yourself "I hope I get this," you are operating from a state of lack. He discusses how to shift into a "paid voice actor" identity by simply asking for a $10 "lunch fee" for freebies to trigger a mental state change. The Power of Anchoring (25:38) To improve your voiceover mindset and performance, Spike suggests "anchoring"—associating a physical action or sensation with a specific mental state. He shares techniques like touching a specific part of your booth doorway or using a physical gesture (like pinching an ear) during a moment of high energy to "program" your brain to enter that state whenever the gesture is repeated. The "Matador Walk" and Audition Recovery (32:13) Drawing parallels from professional tennis, Spike discusses the importance of the "recovery state." After an audition—good or bad—actors must "shake it off" physically and mentally to enter the next read with fresh energy. He notes that animals (and microphones) are incredibly sensitive to manic or nervous energy, making mindfulness a prerequisite for a clean take. Manifestation and "Stair-Stepping" Goals (40:30) Affirmations often fail because the subconscious rejects them as lies (e.g., "I am a millionaire"). Spike teaches "stair-stepping": setting goals that are realistic enough for the subconscious to believe. He also introduces the concept of anchoring the achievement of a goal by visualizing the feeling 15 minutes after the success has occurred. Homesteading and Fatherhood (53:30) Beyond the booth, Spike discusses his life in the Texas Hill Country, where he gardens, homeschools his kids, and manages a homestead with donkeys and chickens. He argues that this "Dad energy" and grounding in nature provide the creative fuel necessary to sustain a decades-long career without burning out.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Master Cold Reading: In modern anime and gaming, you won't see the script ahead of time. Acting classes and daily reading practice are essential. Your Subconscious is the Captain: It believes whatever you tell it without judgment. Speak to yourself as a successful professional. Use Physical Anchors: Create a "booth ritual" (a touch, a scent, or a specific song) to instantly trigger a high-performance state. The "First and Last Take" Rule: Avoid overthinking. Usually, your first read is the freshest, and your last read is the most refined. Stop there and move on. Identify as a Pro: If you haven't been paid, do a small job for a nominal fee ($10). Once money changes hands, you are a "paid voice actor" in the eyes of your subconscious. The Energy is Audible: Microphones pick up tension. If you are nervous, the listener will hear it. Use breathing and movement to ground yourself. Recover Like a Matador: After every audition, do a physical "reset" to let go of the previous performance and clear the slate for the next one. Stair-Step Your Affirmations: Don't claim "I am the world's best actor" if you don't believe it. Start with "I am a working actor who is improving every day." Make Your Booth a Sanctuary: If you feel like someone is listening through the walls, your acting will be restrained. Ensure your space feels private and safe. Perform Everywhere: Whether you're cooking on camera or reading to your kids, keep your creative energy flowing to prevent stagnation in the booth.  

BOSSes, it is the month of taxes, and while most people's eyes glaze over at the mention of the IRS, Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) and Anne Ganguzza are here to make it manageable. This year is particularly significant due to major shifts in federal reporting thresholds. This episode provides actionable voiceover tax tips to help you move from a "hobbyist" mindset to a professional business owner, highlighting the importance of clear audit trails and strategic expense tracking.     Chapter Summaries: The Multifunctional Cash Flow Spreadsheet (01:34) Tom introduces his cornerstone tool: the Cash Flow Spreadsheet. Used for over 20 years, this template tracks every penny in and out. Beyond taxes, it serves as a marketing diagnostic by logging genres, booking sources (agent vs. direct), and payment portals. Anne notes that tracking the source of income is vital for analyzing which training and marketing efforts are actually paying off. Threshold Shock: The 2026 1099 Changes (19:28) Tom reveals the most critical update for 2026: The 1099 reporting threshold has jumped from $600 to $2,000. This applies to both the 1099-NEC (Non-Employee Compensation) and 1099-MISC. Many talent will receive fewer forms this year, but Tom and Anne stress that this is not free money—you are still legally required to declare every cent of income, even if no form is issued. The 1099-K and Third-Party Payments (20:53) For those paid via PayPal, Venmo, or credit cards, the 1099-K threshold now stands at $20,000 and 200 transactions. Unless you hit both metrics, these platforms won't send you a form. This makes meticulous personal record-keeping through spreadsheets or accounting software like Wave or QuickBooks essential for an accurate filing. Hobby vs. Business: The IRS Standard (10:40) Even if you haven't made a profit yet, Anne and Tom encourage filing to claim deductions for training, gear, and marketing. However, they caution that the IRS may classify your career as a "hobby" if you don't show a profit within a few years. Having a professional CPA who understands self-employment is a deductible business expense that provides protection during potential audits. Creating an Audit Trail (13:55) A "Real Boss" keeps personal and professional finances separate. Tom recommends opening a dedicated "Voiceover" checking account. By running all business transactions through one account, you create a clean audit trail that simplifies tax prep and provides concrete evidence of business activity if the IRS comes knocking. AI for Financial Analysis (05:27) Tom discusses moving his data to Google Docs to leverage AI (Google Gemini). By using AI to analyze his spreadsheet, he can quickly identify which genres are growing or shrinking and compare year-over-year performance, turning "tax prep" into a powerful business strategy session.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Declare Everything: Regardless of the new $2,000 threshold, you must report 100% of your income to the IRS. Separate Your Accounts: Use a dedicated checking account for all VO-related income and expenses to create an easy audit trail. File Even When Starting: You can deduct coaching and equipment costs in your first year, even if you haven't booked a job yet. Know the NEC vs. MISC: Understand the difference between non-employee compensation (NEC) and royalties (MISC), as the latter still has a $10 reporting threshold. Hire a Specialized CPA: Don't rely on generic software if your taxes involve 1099s; find a professional who understands the unique needs of freelancers. Track Genres for ROI: Use your financial records to see if your training in specific genres (like medical or e-learning) is resulting in paid work. Watch for Digital 1099s: Check your email and portal dashboards (like Voices or Voice123) for downloadable tax forms; many companies no longer send snail mail. Automate with Informed Delivery: Use the USPS Informed Delivery service to see scans of your incoming physical tax documents. Quarterly Estimates: Avoid a massive year-end bill by paying estimated quarterly taxes throughout the year. Taxes Tell Your Story: View tax season as a "Year in Review" to see the growth and health of your voiceover business.  

BOSSes, today we celebrate a legend!

BOSSes, are you re-recording your auditions until you're blue in the face?

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza welcomes  powerhouse talent Mark Rider, whose voice has defined campaigns for Ford, Game of Thrones, and Spider-Man: No Way Home. Beyond his iconic sound, Mark is a dedicated coach and creator of the VO Life Coach app. In this episode, we explore the parallel between jumping horses and taking creative risks, the "10,000-hour" journey to natural delivery, and why a healthy voice acting mindset—rooted in self-care and mental clarity—is the only way to survive the high-pressure world of trailers and promos.     Chapter Summaries: Horses, Fear, and Character Building (01:48) Anne and Mark bond over their shared passion for horses. Mark notes that jumping a 1,200-pound animal requires staring fear in the face—a skill that translates directly to the booth. They discuss how "eating dirt" (falling off) builds the resilience and character necessary to handle rejection and technical failures in a voiceover career. The Birth of the VO Life Coach App (05:19) Mark shares the "come to Jesus" moment that led to his app. Wrestling with his two loves—performing and coaching—he sought a way to "clone himself" to provide spiritual and professional guidance to talent globally. He emphasizes that "unstucking" talent often involves addressing life strategy rather than just reading scripts. The Myth of "Just Be You" (21:45) Mark issues a controversial reality check: the advice to "just be you" is often misleading. Most scripts are not written for your natural persona. He argues that you must "finish the sentence"—it's about you acting. Successful talent are voice artists who use their unique personality as a tool to inhabit characters and scenarios that are fundamentally different from themselves. The 10,000-Hour Matrix (16:39) There are no workarounds for experience. Mark describes reaching "Year 15" as a "Matrix moment" where auditions began to move in slow motion. He explains that sounding "natural" is a learned skill that only comes after thousands of hours of breaking down copy and internalizing intonation until it becomes instinctual. Zen vs. Chaos: Promo vs. Corporate (41:13) Mark and Anne compare their working styles. While Anne thrives in the "Zen" flexibility of non-broadcast corporate work, Mark admits he craves the "psychotic" chaos of trailer and promo work—getting out of bed at 12:45 AM because a network needs a tag immediately. They agree that the industry has enough room for both mentalities, but you must know which one feeds your soul. Inner Dialogue: Your Biggest Enemy (42:22) Mark's biggest piece of advice for any voice acting mindset is to gain control over your internal dialogue. You don't fail because someone pulls you down; you fail because you allow your own "demons" to tell you that you aren't enough. He recounts wisdom from Maurice Tobias: "Get your life straight first, or the acting won't matter."     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Resilience is Rooted in Experience: Much like riding, you aren't a professional until you've "fallen off" and gotten back up several times. Strategize Before You Launch: Don't rush into getting a demo Invest time in planning and building a foundation so you do it right the first time. Self-Care is Non-Negotiable: Your mental and physical health directly affects your vocal production. Put your sanity first. Master the "Unstuck" Mindset: When you feel stuck, it's often a sign that you need to shift your focus from performance to business strategy or mental clarity. Experience Takes Time: Respect the "10,000-hour" rule. Longevity comes to those who are willing to put in the years of daily practice. "Be You" Means "Act as You": Learn to bring your unique spirit to scripts that weren't written for you. It's about authentic interpretation, not just reading. Find Your Niche Energy: Determine if you prefer the stability of corporate narration or the adrenaline of "right now" promo work. The Power of "No": Having the confidence (and the savings) to say no to low-paying, high-stress jobs is a hallmark of a VO Boss. Use Creative Promotional Tools: Mark's "Be Awesome" BBQ sauce serves as a brilliant conversation starter and follow-up tool for building client relationships. Your Inner Voice Rules: Monitor your self-talk. If your internal dialogue is negative, your performance and business growth will suffer.  

Pricing for Profits: Your Voiceover Pricing Strategy Voiceover Pricing Strategy BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) tackle the often-intimidating world of money. Whether you are setting rates for your very first gig or deciding when to give yourself a "raise" after a decade in the booth, having a clear voiceover pricing strategy is vital. This episode explores the power of industry standards like the GVAA rate guide, the psychology of "perceived value," and why the highest-paying clients are often the easiest to work with.     Chapter Summaries: The Industry Benchmarks (01:43) Tom establishes the two core pillars of voiceover rates: SAG-AFTRA Collectively Bargained Agreements (CBAs) and the Global Voice Acting Academy (GVAA) Rate Guide. While the union sets the floor for broadcast work, the GVAA has become the non-union industry standard. The hosts emphasize that even new talent should aim for these benchmarks because clients pay for the voice, not the years on a resume. The "Confidence Workaround" (10:52) For talent who feel "timid" about quoting high numbers, Tom shares his secret weapon: The Screenshot Strategy. When a client won't provide a budget, Tom provides a quote based on the GVAA guide and includes a link or screenshot. This shifts the "blame" from the actor to the industry standard, instantly boosting professional authority. The Low-Budget Paradox (16:08) Anne and Tom discuss a hard truth: the lower the price, the higher the stress. Clients who undervalue voiceover typically demand more retakes and have more "nitpicky" tendencies. Conversely, high-budget clients understand the value of collaboration and are generally more pleasant and professional to work with. When and How to Raise Your Rates (18:37) Raising your rates doesn't require a public announcement. The hosts recommend a "sneak-in" approach: incrementing rates on a project-by-project basis or with new clients. They suggest two primary triggers for a raise: your skills have demonstrably improved (you are "better" at the craft), or the cost of living/business overhead has increased. Direct Marketing vs. Pay-to-Play (30:01) While pay-to-play sites (Voice123, Voices.com) often set the budget for you, direct marketing requires you to lead the negotiation dance. The hosts argue that a balanced voiceover pricing strategy uses all lead generation tools—agents, casting sites, and direct outreach—to ensure a steady flow of diverse opportunities. Negotiation as a Skill (13:28) Before rate guides existed, actors had to be "tough" negotiators. Anne encourages talent to ask clients, "Does this fit within your budget?" as a simple way to open an honest dialogue without burning bridges. Remember, a "no" from a client isn't a failure—it's just one data point in a long-term career marathon.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Use the GVAA Guide: It is the "gold standard" for non-union rates. Keep it open whenever you are quoting a project. Price for Quality: Don't undercharge just to get the job. A low price often signals low quality or lack of professionalism to the buyer. Ask for the Budget First: Always ask the client for their budget before providing a quote to avoid leaving money on the table. Leverage the "Confidence Workaround": Use screenshots of industry rate guides to justify your quotes and relieve personal anxiety. Identify Perceived Value: If you have branded yourself well and provide a premium product, you can strategically charge above the minimums. Avoid the Race to the Bottom: Under-cutting your peers on low-budget sites doesn't build a sustainable career; it only attracts high-stress clients. Raise Rates Incrementally: Don't announce a general price hike. Slip small increases into your next quotes as your experience grows. Differentiate B2B vs. B2C: VO is a Business-to-Business industry. Treat your clients as professional partners, not retail consumers. Strategic Volume Discounts: Only consider lower rates if a client guarantees a high volume of consistent work (but get it in writing). The Power of "No": Being willing to walk away from a bad deal is the ultimate sign of a VO Boss.  

BOSSes, are you tired of hearing "give me more YOU " and having no idea what it means?  Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides reveal the secret to an authentic voiceover performance and how to stop sounding like a polished caricature! This episode is a masterclass in performance mindset. Learn why acting is actually reacting, how to find the "pain point" in every script, and why your unique personality is the only thing that can't be replicated by AI. In this episode, you'll discover: The Casting Secret: Why directors ask for "you" when they really mean "wake me up!" Pain Point Performance: How connecting to a simple discomfort makes your read 100% more believable. The Spec Trap: Why following directions too closely can actually kill your authenticity. The Empathy Angle: How to make dry corporate or medical narration sound like you actually care. The "Hugs Blanket" Strategy: Why Anne's tangent about Minky Couture is a perfect example of a bookable read. If you're ready to stop over-layering your acting and start being a Real Boss in the booth, this episode is for you!  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) ring in the new year with a reality check on modern voiceover career strategy. In an industry increasingly influenced by AI and market saturation, the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach is no longer viable. This episode is a deep dive into the power of focus—mastering one genre at a time, picking the right marketing portals, and closing the "relevance gap" by becoming a high-level human storyteller.     Chapter Summaries: The Relevance Gap and AI (10:45) Tom introduces the "relevance gap"—the widening space between aspiring talent and working professionals. He argues that AI is rapidly consuming low-budget, entry-level work. To remain relevant, talent must move beyond simply "reading well" and invest in high-level storytelling skills (acting, improv, etc.) that AI cannot yet replicate. The Danger of the Multi-Demo Rush (03:55) The hosts notice a troubling trend: new talent getting five demos produced before they've mastered a single genre. This lack of focus leads to "sucking at everything." Anne emphasizes that even 20 coaching sessions might not be enough to reach the competitive level required for a professional demo in today's saturated market. Passion vs. Pragmatism: Reconciling Your Goals (15:19) While many enter VO wanting to do anime or video games, the market for corporate, e-learning, and medical narration is significantly larger. Tom suggests a pragmatic voiceover career strategy: use "bread and butter" genres like corporate work (where there are over 33 million potential clients) to fund your passion projects in character and animation work. The Myth of Social Media ROI (24:34) Tom reveals startling statistics on social media ROI for voice actors: Facebook (0.77%) and Twitter (0.69%) pale in comparison to LinkedIn (2.74%). While still low, LinkedIn represents a business-minded audience. The hosts warn that "enpoopification"—the decline of social media quality due to algorithms and AI—makes it harder than ever to find work through standard posting. The "New SEO": Getting Found by Chatbots (27:39) Anne shifts the focus to a forward-thinking strategy: SEO for AI. Companies are increasingly asking chatbots like ChatGPT or Claude for voice actor recommendations. To stay competitive, talent must populate their websites and blogs with high-quality, human-written content that these bots can index and recommend. The 2026 Focus Challenge (30:21) Tom issues a challenge to all VO Bosses: Pick one genre, one casting site, and one social media platform to focus on this year. By concentrating energy rather than scattering it, talent can build true momentum and authority in a specific corner of the market.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Close the Relevance Gap: Invest in professional acting and storytelling training to stay ahead of AI-generated voices. Focus on One Genre First: Master the nuances and audience of one genre before producing a demo or marketing yourself in another. Market Pragmatism: Target the corporate and e-learning markets for consistent cash flow while you build your "passion" skills in animation. Avoid "Demo Bundle" Traps: Be wary of packages offering multiple demos for a deal; quality training takes time and individual focus for each genre. Audit Your Marketing Portals: Don't join every pay-to-play site at once. Pick one that aligns with your primary genre and master its algorithm. Prioritize LinkedIn: For B2B genres like corporate narration, LinkedIn offers a significantly higher ROI than other social platforms. Optimize for AI Search: Ensure your website's FAQ and Home pages are rich with pertinent information so chatbots can find and recommend you. Use Low-Budget Sites as Proving Grounds: Use sites like Fiverr or Casting Call Club for practice and project management experience, not as a final career destination. Human Content Wins: Write blogs and website copy with a "human-first" approach to reclaim search authority from AI-generated spam. The Foundation is Acting: Foundational acting skills are transferable across all genres. Master the craft first, and the genre proficiency will follow.

Building a sustainable voiceover career in 2026 requires more than great performance—it means understanding how agencies submit talent, how online casting has evolved, and how discoverability now works in an increasingly digital and AI-influenced landscape. Today's voice actors need clarity, adaptability, and a strategy grounded in how the industry actually operates. In this episode of VO BOSS, Anne Ganguzza and J. Michael Collins sit down for a candid conversation about modern voiceover career strategy. Together, they explore how submissions are filtered behind the scenes, why becoming a trusted, go-to talent matters more than constant chasing, and how marketing, SEO, and emerging AI search tools now play a role in being found. This episode offers practical, experience-based insight into building a career that's positioned for long-term success.      Chapter Summaries: The Entrepreneurial "Happy Accident" (04:14) JMC reflects on a 30-year career built on "happy accidents" and flying by the seat of his pants. He emphasizes that a successful voiceover career strategy requires constant evolution. He discusses his "full circle" journey—starting in traditional studios, becoming a pioneer of online casting, and returning to a heavy focus on agency and broadcast work. Legwork and the "100 Touches" Rule (09:56) The hosts discuss the significant increase in effort required for modern talent. JMC suggests that the old standard of 20 daily marketing "touches" is obsolete; today, a competitive voiceover business requires closer to 100 touches a day (auditions + direct marketing) to maintain a tough climb in a saturated market. Demystifying the Agency World (09:29) JMC addresses a common misconception: agents are not scary gatekeepers; they work for you. He breaks down how agency submissions really work—where hundreds of voiceover auditions may be received for a single role, but only a small, carefully selected group is ever sent to the client. For voice actors, success comes from shifting the focus away from constant outreach and toward becoming a trusted, go-to talent within an agency's roster.  The New Frontier: LLM Search and SEO (21:07) Anne and JMC dive into the "New SEO." Beyond traditional Google rankings, talent must now optimize for AI chatbots like ChatGPT and Claude. JMC reveals he is booking multiple jobs per week from clients who found him by asking an AI bot for recommendations. This requires a comprehensive digital footprint that AI models can crawl and trust. Longevity and the "Five-Figure Wall" (16:04) JMC offers blunt advice for newer talent: getting to those first $20,000–$30,000 in annual revenue is the hardest part of the job. Once you hit that low five-figure traction, scaling to six figures is often a faster process because you have already developed the resilience and technical skills needed to survive rejection. The Immersion Strategy: VO Conferences (32:39) As the producer of VO Atlanta, One Voice USA, and his signature Euro Retreats, JMC explains why live events are the ultimate "Super Bowl" for career growth. He discusses the difference between intimate retreats (EuroVO) and massive immersion events, emphasizing that the relationships and "lifelong families" built at these conferences are often more valuable than the sessions themselves.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Embrace the Hustle: Aim for 100 marketing touches or auditions daily to stay ahead of the competition. Optimize for Chatbots: Ensure your website content is detailed and clear so LLMs like ChatGPT can index you for specific genre recommendations. Agents are Partners: Treat agents as people who work for you; focus on becoming the "easy choice" that they prioritize for shortlists. Traditional SEO Still Matters: Being on Page 1 or 2 of Google provides "walk-in business" that allows you to stop constant chasing. Focus on High-Tier Portals: If using pay-to-plays, aim for top-tier memberships (like 123 Platinum) to bypass the saturation of lower tiers. LinkedIn is the Pro Choice: Focus your social media marketing on LinkedIn, where professional grade buyers live, rather than consumer-heavy sites like Facebook. Persist Past the First $30k: Realize that the first five-figure stretch is the most difficult; the snowball effect happens once you establish a baseline. Demos are Still Non-Negotiable: You cannot get agency representation or high-end direct work without an award-winning, professional demo. Invest in Live Connection: Attend conferences like VO Atlanta or One Voice to build the "community family" that sustains a long-term career. Do It Your Way: Forge your own path by blending old-school agency work with new-school direct marketing and SEO strategy.  

BOSSes, do you cringe when you hear your own playback?  Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides reveal why how to love your voice is the most important mindset shift you can make for your voiceover career! This episode is a "VO Valentine" to all the talent struggling with self-doubt. Learn why professional commitment beats romanticized expectations, how to handle negative feedback without spiraling, and why resilience is your true superpower. In this episode, you'll discover: The Comparison Trap: Why wishing you sounded like someone else is sabotaging your unique brand. Love as a Professional Commitment: How to stay in the game even when you "hate" your performance that day. The "Avalanche" Effect: How to stop one bad comment from ruining your entire business. Healing Through Gratitude: Anne Ganguzza's powerful story of perspective following a major health challenge. Why Love Sells: How to use genuine emotional connection to make your auditions stand out to clients. If you're ready to stop the self-sabotage and start thriving in the booth, this episode is a must-watch!  

BOSSes host Anne Ganguzza is joined by co-host Lau Lapides and special guest Carol Alpert (voice actor and on-camera coach) to tackle the industry's most persistent headache: the inability of talent to follow instructions. Whether it's ignoring age ranges in casting specs, butchering file naming, or losing patience during a live session, failing to follow the "rules" of an audition is the fastest way to get your file tossed. The hosts stress that being a "trained actor" means being disciplined enough to read between the lines and respect the client's process. The Casting Filter: Why 70% Get Ditched (01:48) Lau Lapides reveals a shocking statistic: in a recent casting for 35–45 year olds, 70% of the auditions were from talent clearly outside that age range. Agents use specs to filter talent quickly; if you submit for a role you clearly don't fit, you are essentially asking to be ignored. Following the demographic specs is the first step in following directions in voiceover. The File Naming Pet Peeve (07:04) Proper file naming is not just a suggestion; it's a structural necessity. When an agent or casting assistant is processing hundreds of files, an incorrectly named file can disrupt their entire workflow. Lau notes that talent often doesn't see the "assembly line" of 10–40 people involved in a single gig; naming your file correctly shows you respect their time. "Early is On Time": The Reality of Deadlines (11:12) While some pay-to-play sites are instantaneous, agency turnarounds are often measured in hours. Lau asserts that the strongest auditions usually come in within the first few hours of a posting. Being "trained" means having the discipline to interpret, record, and execute an audition professionally and quickly without procrastinating. Cold Reading and Tracking Skills (13:05) A common reason talent fail to follow directions is a lack of ocular tracking skills. Many people listen to content rather than reading it, leading to a decline in the ability to scan a script and pick up nuances quickly. The hosts recommend cold-reading classes to ensure your eyes can track words and directions simultaneously. Live Direction: Active Listening and Communication (31:09) During a live directed session, following instructions becomes a matter of active listening. Lau recommends repeating directions back to the client to ensure clarity. She also warns that talent are often replaced not because of their voice, but because of a poor attitude or lack of patience when being redirected. The "Relationship" Slope: Business vs. Contract (41:23) While it's important to stick to contracts, the hosts discuss the value of being cooperative. Doing an extra tag or a small favor can "earn" you a client for the next ten years. It's about weighing small battles versus the long-term war of building a sustainable career through professional relationships.   Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Read the Specs Twice: Ensure you fit the age, gender, and ethnicity requirements before stepping into the booth. Master File Naming: Follow the naming convention provided exactly. It is the most common reason auditions are discarded without being heard. Early is Best: While you should never rush quality, aim to submit your audition as early as possible to capture the agent's attention. Practice Cold Reading: Maintain your ocular tracking skills by reading aloud for at least 15 minutes a day to stay sharp for quick turnarounds. Listen and Repeat: In directed sessions, repeat the client's instructions back to them to confirm you understand the requested adjustment. Silence Your Ego: If a client asks for 100 takes, provide them professionally. Frustration or an "attitude" is a faster way to get fired than a bad take. Check Your Tech: Before a live session, verify that SourceConnect and your DAW are updated and functioning. Technical failures are a failure to follow prep instructions. The Agent is the Middleman: Don't get annoyed if your agent doesn't have every answer; they copy and paste exactly what the client gives them. Interpret, Don't Just Comprehend: Moving beyond just "reading the words" to understanding the story is part of your professional instruction. Build the Relationship: Being cooperative and "easy to work with" is often more valuable to a client than being the most talented person in the room.  

BOSSes, are you being sold a voiceover dream that's actually a nightmare?  Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere expose the predatory world of "demo mills" and reveal why your VO demo  might be holding you back! This episode is your survival guide to the industry's biggest investment. Learn how to spot red flags, understand why "four hours of coaching" is a scam, and how to ensure your demo actually gets you cast. In this episode, you'll discover: The $3,000 Mistake: A real-world story of a talent who was taken for a ride by bad training. Genre Mixing Red Flags: Why putting promo spots on a commercial demo kills your credibility. Performance vs. Voice: Why "golden pipes" aren't enough to make a demo serviceable. The Stock Script Trap: How generic copy makes you blend in instead of standing out. Recourse Strategies: What to do if you've already spent money on a sub-par demo. If you're ready to stop being a "hobbyist" and start building a competitive voiceover business, this episode is a must-watch!  

BOSSes, are you ready to become "undeniable" in the voiceover industry?  Anne Ganguzza sits down with Matthew "Slim Da Reazon" Parham (Director of Operations at NAVA) to discuss the high-stakes world of authentic voiceover casting and vocal advocacy! Matthew shares his journey from professional musician to a top-tier voice actor for Marvel and ESPN, while revealing what happens behind the scenes on Capitol Hill. In this episode, you'll discover: The NAVA Mission: How voice actors are fighting for the right to own their own voices in the age of AI. The Cadence Secret: How to transition from slam poetry and hip-hop to a "universal" commercial sound. Authentic Casting: Why the "lived-in experience" is your most valuable asset as a performer. The AI Reality: Why luxury brands and politicians will never fully replace the human connection. The "ZFG" Mindset: Why audacity is the secret ingredient to booking major global brands. If you're serious about the future of your voiceover business, this conversation is essential viewing!   Connect with Matthew: Instagram: @slimdareason Website: matthewparhamvo.com Connect with NAVA: Website: navavoices.org Connect with VO Boss: Twitter: @vo_boss Instagram: @vo_boss Facebook: /VO BOSS YouTube: VO BOSS  

BOSSes, feeling down because everyone else seems to be booking but you?  Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble reveal why comparing your voiceover success to social media "vague bookings" is the fastest way to kill your career momentum! This episode is a masterclass in business mindset. Learn why the "national commercial" you're jealous of might not be the windfall it seems, and how to reclaim your joy by minding your own business. In this episode, you'll discover: The Reality Behind the Post: Why you can't trust the financial perception of social media wins. Social Media Palate Cleanse: Why Danielle took a year-long hiatus and how it helped her business. The Danger of Rate Shaming: Why your financial strategy and rates are your business alone. From Jealousy to Celebration: How truly being happy for others can actually manifest success for you. Hidden Cuts: The agents, managers, and taxes that turn a "big gig" into a smaller reality. If you're ready to stop doomscrolling and start thriving in your own booth, this episode is a must-watch for every VO Boss!  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, assert that subtext in voice acting is the single most important element for delivering a powerful, unique, and castable performance. The bosses challenge the common mistake of literal reading, offering practical strategies—from audience analysis to efficient marking—that elevate a performance from predictable to profound.     Chapter Summaries: Subtext Defines Uniqueness (01:00) Lau states that subtext—the underlying interpretation of a line—is what makes a talent unique. The hosts explain that relying solely on obvious language or descriptive adjectives leads to predictable, robot-like reads. The true power lies in making nuanced choices about what the words really mean to the listener. Audience and Empathy are Everything (02:44) Subtext is entirely dependent on who you are talking to. Anne uses the example of corporate narration: the subtext for an investor (focused on financial facts) is different from the subtext for a consumer (focused on customer service and product benefits). The acting choice must be rooted in empathy and understanding what the listener cares about. The Structural Journey of the Script (14:30) Every script has a structural journey: introduction, series of steps, and conclusion. The subtext should align with this journey. The hosts emphasize that if you are running out of breath , it is the dead giveaway that you did not prepare the story, as natural conversation doesn't require breath struggle. Techniques for Finding the Subtext (22:34) To efficiently analyze copy, the hosts recommend: Improv and Translate: Improvise the script in your own words to capture the genuine emotional wash and then plug the original words back in. Marking: Use clear broadcast-style marking to denote phrasing and intent, but also pay attention to the ellipses and punctuation for clues about the emotional context. Use AI as a Tool: Paste ambiguous scripts into an AI tool (like a chatbot) and ask, "What is the purpose of this script? Who cares about this information?" to provide a jumping-off point for human interpretation. Avoiding the Literal Trap (23:37) The hosts caution against taking common acting advice too literally. For example, constant smiling throughout a read, or persistent upspeak at the end of every sentence, sounds unnatural and is perceived as not genuine. Your performance must always reflect how you would behave and sound in a real-world conversation. The Brilliance of a Point of View (25:16) Subtext gives you a clear point of view. The hosts provide a simple example: saying "Are you wearing those pants?" can be interpreted in dramatically different ways (anger, excitement, disgust) depending on the subtext. This intentional interpretation is what makes your audition unique and elevates it above the predictable melody.     Top 10 Takeaways for Voice Actors: Subtext is Everything: The emotional core and underlying meaning of your script is what makes your performance unique and castable. Analyze Your Audience: Base your subtext on who the listener is (consumer, investor, business-to-business) and what they care about most. Translate into Your Own Words: Use the "improv and translate" technique to efficiently find the genuine emotional wash before recording. Embrace Emotional Ambiguity: Simple sentences can hold complex, contrasting subtext. That complexity is your unique acting choice. Use AI to Find Backstory: Use AI as an analysis tool to find information about the brand and the script's purpose, but always apply your human interpretation. Pacing is Preparation: If you struggle for breath, you have not prepared the story correctly. Good actors always know how to naturally navigate long sentences. Mark for Meaning: Pay close attention to punctuation and structure (ellipses, introductions, conclusions) as cues for shifts in subtext. Avoid the Literal Trap: Do not read adjectives literally (e.g., constant smiling). Your emotional choice must align with authenticity, not simple description. The Share is the Subtext: Your goal is to share the story with the listener, not talk at them or talk in your head. Point of View Stands Out: An audition with a clear, intentional point of view, even if surprising, will always get shortlisted over a generic, predictable read.  

BOSSes Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere (The VO Strategist) detail the foundational strategy for achieving your voice acting career goals in the new year. Using a proven five-category system taught by industry veteran Dan Duckworth, Tom provides a structured method for turning ambition into executable action plans. The hosts emphasize that in a career where you wear all the hats, efficiency, education, and a healthy mindset are the keys to long-term success.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by premier coach Dave Walsh for a deep conversation on navigating personal and professional challenges in chaotic times. They assert that the solution to anxiety and stress is to stop focusing on external chaos and instead, live and work from a place of internal purpose and core values. This episode offers powerful insight into why purpose-driven voice acting is the only way to achieve authentic connection and career longevity.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by multi-award-winning global voice actor Toby Ricketts to explore the mindset and techniques required for world-class, remote performance. Toby, who works across British, Australian, New Zealand, and American markets from his remote New Zealand studio, emphasizes that the true superpower for acting for global voice actors lies in intuition, emotional connection, and deliberately making unexpected choices to capture a listener's attention.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Danielle Famble dive into the uncomfortable reality of voice actor negotiation and handling lowball offers. This episode provides essential strategies for maintaining grace, protecting your worth, and ensuring you don't burn bridges when you have to say no. The hosts stress that money is the language of business, and understanding negotiation as a collaborative process is key to long-term success.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, dive into the non-negotiable reality of voiceover demo production. The bosses address why many voice actors—especially those starting out—try to cut corners on their demos, despite the demo being the primary portfolio piece used to land agents and get work. This episode provides essential, current advice on what makes a demo effective, what red flags to avoid, and how to manage the realistic expectations of investing in a long-term voice acting career. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to find your life purpose and live a happier, more fulfilling life? My coaching services can help you discover your true passions and align them with your goals. Let's start that journey today. Visit anneganguzza.com for more information.  00:31 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:45 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the lovely Miss Lala Pita. Hey, we're back, and better than ever. Annie, I'm so glad to be back with you. We are back. Ah Lala, it's been a week, oh my gosh, it's been a week.  01:06 It's been kind of a crazy year so far, hasn't it? It has, I mean, it's just been a little chaotic. I've dealt with a lot of students recently who come to me that want coaching, but before they want to get coaching, they want me to listen to their demos, and so I'll have a quick listen. I mean, I do an actual, I have an actual like process where, if you want half an hour of my time, I'll actually evaluate your demo spot by spot and give you tips. And I like the fact that I offer it as a service because I don't want people to think I'm just here to sell them demos.  01:42 Yeah, of course, but I listen to a lot of demos that are self-produced and demos that have no production under them, and then demos that have a lot of production under them. And you know, I know it's a topic that you know we tend to talk about quite a bit, all about demos. But demos are just so darn important because it really is the product by which you get hired a lot of times. I mean, in addition to auditions, of course, you know, because the client always wants to hear you know your voice with their brand, but really to get your foot in the door. In a lot of places, that demo that showcases what your voice sounds like in the genre in which you want to work is so important. And it's interesting how many times I'll talk to a student who wants to kind of cut the corners on that and they don't have the money. And yet the demos that I'm hearing are not doing them any favors and not getting them any work. Right.  02:39 - Lau (Host) And there's so many tips you and I could like give about the do's and don'ts of demos, but I think it changed, like what's trending now and the faux pas that are happening are happening, that are a little bit newer these days and it's good to talk about and especially.  02:55 - Anne (Host) I like your angle from—I have my angle from the non-broadcast side and I want to hear your angle from the broadcast side. How much are demos being used to cast people? How much do the demos count when you're listening to that in comparison to the auditions? Talk to me about the casting process and how often are demos being used for that? That's a great question. That's a great question.  03:20 - Lau (Host) You know, the anecdote that I come up with is, or the analogy I come up with is, reminds me of college. College was always a necessity for people who are going into white collar careers. Ok, nowadays it's a little bit different.  03:36 - Anne (Host) Do you?  03:37 - Lau (Host) need a college degree to go into many careers. Maybe not, probably not, but when you earn a college degree, oftentimes it says to an employer that you've gone to the highest level of due diligence in your education and that, to me, oftentimes, is what demos represent. Sometimes you literally don't need demos, like literally, we won't be submitting your demo to a client On the most literal basis, I will not be sending your client 98% of the time to our clients, but it shows us that you are a working, professional, high-level industry talent. So there's a screening.  04:13 - Anne (Host) And that you take your career seriously. I think you take your investment seriously.  04:17 - Lau (Host) There's a screening to that it's a portfolio piece, sure. So I would say, yes, you do need it, but no, you do not need it for every single individual job that comes through, because they're going to be demo reads on the scripts.  04:30 - Anne (Host) Now I'm going to counter that, because you are speaking from the broadcast sense of the word. Typically, because you cast a lot for commercials and broadcast style jobs. For non-broadcast, which is a lot of the industry as well, demos can sit on your website and be available 24-7. When you don't have time to audition, and that is the biggest point that I'd like to make is that if you do not have an audition, they sit on your website as a portfolio, as a demonstration of what it is that your voice sounds like, and it can be a way to get your foot in the door.  05:04 If somebody hears that demo and then they're like, oh, I like that voice, and then maybe they want you to audition or it just it allows people to kind of sample the product, sample the product before they decide if they want to hire you, and I think that it's a very valuable piece to have on a website. So if you're a talent that's going to do not I mean I don't know any talent that just does broadcast I mean maybe some it's a very tiny few that just do broadcast, but that doesn't do non-broadcast as well. So I feel like that demo as a portfolio. I remember when you used to go on job interviews and you had to have things in your portfolio.  05:44 I mean, I did when I went on job interviews.  05:46 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I had a portfolio. I did too, yes.  05:48 - Anne (Host) And this is really your portfolio and I think just like— Totally agree as anything right. Presentation is everything I'm all about. Presentation, yeah, Do you know what I mean? I do? Presentation in marketing, presentation in the way you dress, presentation where you present yourself to people. I think presentation for your product is important and that is your demo.  06:11 - Lau (Host) And thank you for qualifying that, because I was speaking from a commercial mindset and it is great to have it on your website. You really should have those on your website because you're going to get private clients, you're going to get audiobook clients, you're going to get all sorts of potential clients that need to hear samples of your work. In my world, every day I will ask for submissions, commercial demo submissions for the agency but how much we're actually using them in-house once we've accepted you into the agency?  06:43 - Anne (Host) is getting minimal. But you need one to get into the agency. Is that correct? For the most part, yeah, you do.  06:49 - Lau (Host) You do because otherwise we would just have you do random reads which we want to hear produced reads. So it makes sense to absolutely have that commercial demo. But be careful, like and we'll talk about that some of the tips about like what is in that that is working on your behalf and what is working against you.  07:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, yeah.  07:09 Right, I mean, there, you know I'm going to say, first of all, anything that is not produced right. First of all, I mean we can talk the DIY. I mean the DIY is not typically produced because, again, you need, like, if you're going to put music under it, sound effects, you need a license for that to be, you know, to legally. You know, put something on your website and I feel like, if it's not produced, then it kind of tells people that you're just there in your home studio with a mic and you didn't want to put any sound effects or music under it, and so therefore, it's kind of like a half-finished product to me. Yes, and yes, it showcases your voice, but it also showcases that maybe you could be a hobbyist or that you are not making the investment to create a produced sample, which I think is important because, again, you know, it's everything. I mean the client needs to hear what your voice will sound like in a fully produced spot, I believe that I agree, and you know what I do.  08:06 - Lau (Host) When we're looking at bringing new talent, I typically make a habit of saying who produced your demo?  08:11 Now, a lot of agents won't ask that, but I do because I know the producers and I know who's who. So I'll ask them who produced your demo? That'll tell me one thing and then, well, they certainly have to send me a commercial demo. I find one of the biggest problems out there is they're sending me the wrong demo. They're sending me, say, you know, an animation demo, character demo, which I love because we're doing more animation jobs, but the bread and butter is still the commercial for most of us. And so you have to really target, like who are you sending your portfolio to and who are their clients, what kind of work do they represent? And send them the right demo, send them the most appropriate demo. Don't assume oh, I have four other demos, is that good enough?  08:52 - Anne (Host) Well, yeah, I mean like a corporate demo.  08:55 You're like you need a commercial demo first and foremost because that's where you as an agent make your money right In the broadcast, but non-broadcast but it's not to say that your agent won't hire you for a corporate job.  09:11 It's nice to have that corporate demo. I'm going to say that the rest of the demos outside of your commercial demo or anything that's broadcast like promo or animation, even to have those non-broadcast demos is also equally as important to have on your website and to also deliver to your agent as a secondary demo, because you know they want to see that you can be versatile and you're not just a one-trick pony, uh, sort of deal, and and those demos should be should be produced properly. Basically, I'll tell you, though produced properly just as important to have a produced, even though e-learning I have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm have people that will say to me yeah, but e-learning, you don't typically have music under e-learning. I'm like, look, it's not about that for your demo, it's about the presentation it's about. I would much rather hear your voice in an e-learning module with a little bit of music underneath it because it helps.  09:55 It's like putting lipstick on it's just saying right, it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound and there are a lot of e-learning believe it finishes it off, it creates a nice sound, and there are a lot of e-learning believe it or not modules that do have music under them, even though a lot of them won't.  10:10 - Lau (Host) But I'll tell you what blows me away.  10:11 - Anne (Host) Medical, the same thing. Medical is the same thing. I'll tell you what blows me away, though.  10:16 - Lau (Host) How many talent we have submit to the agency for acceptance that don't have commercial demos.  10:30 - Anne (Host) And.  10:30 - Lau (Host) I say you know, I appreciate you sending me other demos, but where's your commercial demo? And they say oh, I'm saving up for it and I'm planning it next year.  10:33 And I'm like, well, then come back to me then, yeah, yeah, because that's what I need to hear. That's how specific we get in terms of having you understand what a commercial delivery is. We need to know that you understand and that you're making the investment in it as well. I think that that's really, really important. You know, one of the big sort of mistakes that I've heard recently and we've been talking about this forever, but it's been a real problem recently I was involved with a corporate casting just the other day and within the agency now these are the talent that are accepted within the agency I'm getting demo after demo, commercial demo, because they were asking for commercial demos.  11:11 They weren't even asking for reads on the script yet and, as I remembered them, I had to listen to the first like 10 seconds of the demo. They were so hyped, pitchy, selly, like over the top, wild crazy. You know big car sales and I'm thinking to myself Most of the stuff we do is really not that. Yeah. Yeah, it's much more of an earthy delivery, much more of a real delivery, and a lot of them got ditched in terms of not being submitted, just because of that it amazes me that demo producers, I think that you know.  11:45 - Anne (Host) Then you're shopping around for a demo producer. I think your demo producer needs to be current and relevant. And so when you're shopping for a producer for your demo, that you listen to other demos that are produced by them and hopefully you've done your homework beforehand and listen, like if you're going to get a commercial demo, listen to what commercials are out there lately, and not, I mean, even on the radio, right where I think radio is a little bit more dynamic, a little more, you know, focused on the voice, because there's no media outside of music behind it. I feel like you can be a little bit more dynamic with your acting, but even then it's not so high-pitched. And yeah, the car ads, yes, some of them are.  12:28 - Lau (Host) And the sound effects. Like I don't know if talent realized. We don't want to hear tons of sound effects in your first read or two. You want to hear it. So one more thing, annie, I just want to mention. I forgot to mention it earlier. When they're submitting to the agency, if I like them or their demo, I'll say, hey, can you submit me a couple raw reads?  12:46 - Anne (Host) I want totally raw reads and typically they love that you can gauge their studio that way. Absolutely.  12:54 - Lau (Host) And their voice. Like is that their voice? Was anything overly processed or overly?  12:59 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I think that's so important because you don't want to have the demo and that's, I think, that probably a lot of agents, if they don't ask for that, they'll know in a matter of like a couple of auditions whether or not you have the acting chops to be able to back up what you had on your demo or what might've been directed right for you on the demo. And we've talked about that a lot of times, and Cliff Zellman is famous for saying a demo is a promise, a demo is a promise, and so when you submit, a demo to someone.  13:27 you want to make sure that you can back that up, that you can produce that same sort of delivery. Maybe not You're not an audio engineer and you probably don't have a bank of music and you don't have a bed of music or sound effects but you need to be able to put that delivery to the test. Someone just sent me one of my talents.  13:45 - Lau (Host) He's so great. He just sent me a monster demo in honor of Halloween and it was so great and I said his name is Michael.  13:52 I said Michael, I'm just curious how much of this is processed. He said Lau, none of it. This is my voice. I was so impressed by that. I mean, I was like so impressed because once in a while we'll have an animation that comes through Actually more and more so now than last year and they'll look for those kinds of characters, they'll look for those kinds of sound effects, they'll look for that stuff. And just knowing he can produce that without overly being produced in a studio, just his voice is just really incredible. So I would say, put your natural stuff up front for a commercial agency, like, go as natural and real and authentic as you can up front and then do your high-pitchy stuff later in the demo.  14:34 - Anne (Host) Well, do that in a character demo, or do that in an animation demo, or do that or put it towards the end. In a demo that yeah put it in a demo, like you just told. Now see, I don't want, I don't want the bosses to get confused because you just talked about a monster demo, so monster demo is going to be different than a commercial demo.  14:50 Right, I demo. Right, I mean you're talking about, like I mean, a commercial demo. You would want to hear what it sounds like with the music underneath it. However, I think you have to be careful that you don't have something that's way overproduced and there will be some demo producers that might do that and so I think that you have to really listen with a critical ear. If you're you know. If you're shopping around for a demo producer, what do they do? What have they done recently? And sometimes it's hard when you're first starting out in voiceover because you don't know what a good demo sounds like and hopefully you know. If you've done your research on the Internet, you've heard examples of good demos versus maybe not so good demos.  15:34 And I'm like just because a demo exists doesn't mean it's a good one.  15:37 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and I'm glad you brought that up too, because I have been really annoyed by overproduced sound effects, like, sometimes I feel like the producers, the audio engineers, the demo producers are showing off. And why do I say that? Number one, I don't need to hear a sound effect in every moment, in between words or sentences. I don't want that at all. The other thing I don't want is oh, I almost lost my train of thought.  16:04 - Anne (Host) Don't detract from the voice with the production of it.  16:07 - Lau (Host) Oh, I know what, it is Too long. So the demo producers are either, as you said, they're archaic and they don't know what they're doing and they're from 1962, or they're showing off because it's 90 seconds, it's two minutes, it's 2.15. And I'm like I'm not listening to that.  16:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Who's going?  16:25 - Anne (Host) to listen to that right, but the producers are showing off. That's too long for a commercial demo.  16:31 - Lau (Host) Absolutely Way too long, way too long.  16:33 - Anne (Host) So I'm thinking today Not too long for a non-broadcast narration, though, like a minute and a half to two minutes that's. That's normal, of course not.  16:39 - Lau (Host) No, of course not, and so I would say the one another thing I see is sounding like one long read, the whole thing lacking variety, lacking change Range, and that's to me in the coaching in the direction. It's like understanding. It just can't be about the sound effects. It has to be authentically about the voice actor being able to internally shift the mood and a variety of styles too.  17:05 - Anne (Host) I hear a lot of demos with a lot of like first person dialogues in them and to me that the first person dialogue to me is kind of a kind of a cheat, because if you're going to produce because if you're going to produce somebody before they're really ready, because not every commercial is a first-person dialogue.  17:23 It's not like hey, I just went to John Camp Ford and it's not all a dialogue. There's a lot of more third-person, second-person, and so if your demo is not demonstrating that and me as a casting person, I think you also love that A lot of times demo producers will throw those first person reads in there. Like the whole demo will be a first person read and I'm like, well, that's not really showcasing the entire range of acting that I would need for a national commercial, which is not all. You're not on camera actor there. Typically it's not always first person, it's like you're talking about a pharmaceutical in the third person. So how do you sound in that? So your demo has to have the styles that are out there now and not just one style and that one style right, that first person dialogue may show a lot of characters that you can do and it can show a range of emotion, but it doesn't show your acting in something that's not written in that style.  18:19 - Lau (Host) Good point, yeah, totally good point. And what about what's, as you're saying, what's trending out there now, like I'm really tired of hearing about, you know, maybelline, mascara or Lexus, if I hear another read with some of the same products over and over again or Dove chocolate it's kind of like guys.  18:38 I know that you didn't do those commercials because I recognize the script from the online library that a million people have. So, being very careful, you don't need to have a real job on your demo. You can have studio reads, that's fine, but it has to be updated, thought out in terms of what are the trends of today, like, maybe we don't eat as much chocolate, maybe we're having, you know, sugar-free chocolate, maybe it's, you know, I don't know whatever it is, but what is trending today and what makes you sound relevant to being a working talent today versus something from five or 10 or 15 years ago?  19:16 - Anne (Host) It's so interesting that you were talking about the L'Oreal makeup read, which is, it's always that one sound, that kind of, you know that sexy kind of L'Oreal Maybelline, and so what's interesting is how has that trend changed, right? Has it changed? Are there now more or maybe different brands that are out there that are not using that particular sound? I just because I know you referenced Dove chocolate and so I was just referencing the makeup commercials as well, right, which really took a long time for them to change, and now they're slowly changing Totally.  19:49 Now they're changing, so I don't need to hear that typical read of that promo-y sound. That's right, it's nice to hear something that's different, that is relevant for today, I mean, and you know how I know a change is occurring.  20:04 - Lau (Host) It's what we said in the last podcast that we just recorded. It's about reading your specs. So, for instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition. For instance, we just got specs in for a corporate audition and in there, as we're reading it as the agents, it says no vocal fry, please. What does that tell me? They don't care about your voice. They could care less about you. It's about that delivery of like hi, I'm talking about finance. Now I'm on a vocal fry. I can't even do it, but I'm on a vocal fry. They don't want that anymore. They want more real people, and more real people do not speak on a vocal fry, yeah.  20:42 - Anne (Host) And more real people. Right, I will say. I will say, more real young people do talk a little bit with upspeak and so that is a trend that we got. I I've been. You know I'm traditionally against that, but again, I'm doing a lot of non-broadcast narration stuff and I feel like, if you can't use upspeak yet, because even even younger people, when I, when I've I've done a lot of research in the corporate world when they're speaking publicly about their product is there's not upspeak, they're more authoritative and that, yeah, it's very interesting because, you know, I'll let it happen once in a while in a script, because if the voice is young, it's a natural occurrence and a natural tendency. But if you're in your 50s and you do upspeak, I'm not, no, it's generational, it's generational.  21:29 We don't tend to do that and you might hang out and you might have kids, you might have kids, you might have kids. That's up speak. And then that kind of affected you. However, when you're delivering a commercial on I don't know, depends Up speak. It just doesn't belong there, it just doesn't. It just doesn't so, it doesn't belong with the demo. So, understand the styles and the trends, and that's something that anybody can do for free by simply watching commercials, by simply surfing the internet and looking at corporate you know, corporate videos and there's any genre looking at animation. I mean really just study and listen to what the voices are.  22:04 - Lau (Host) I got another tip. Yeah, I got another tip about that. Gone are the days where we used to have completely separate demos for English and then another language. Now you can certainly do that and that's great, but you don't have to. If you're making a commercial demo, I love a bilingual demo or a trilingual demo. So if you speak more than one language, I need to know what it is. If you do authentic accents, I need to know what it is.  22:25 - Anne (Host) I'll even put it on a corporate demo or a medical demo because I'll put and what I'll do is maybe I'll do a dialogue spot that has you'll be talking to the younger son in English, but then you'll turn to the father, who doesn't speak English and only speak Spanish, and then have the rest of the conversation in Spanish, and that spot alone showcases that this talent is bilingual and so that works. So not just for commercial but also for non-broadcast, absolutely.  22:53 - Lau (Host) Yeah, and we're in a global world, so I know you know that ad campaign. Thank you, captain Obvious. You know that was at Travelocity or something, kayak or something. I feel like it's this one. I talk to talent. It's like Not only put your best suit forward, and forward first, but do the things that you would be cast in Like. Don't do stretch pieces, don't do like if I'm 35, don't try to do a 70-year-old piece.  23:22 - Anne (Host) Don't do that. I'm saying if you're like in your 50s, don't do a millennial read on your commercial demo.  23:29 Because, first of all, it doesn't fit. I think we were talking about this on the last podcast. It's like I don't audition for 20-something voices, even though I have a younger voice, because it's not just about the voice and the sound of it, it's about the style and it's about the authenticity of it as well. Right, which is we understand why we want authentic voices. Right, it makes sense that your life experience dictates the style and the tone and the gravitas and the subtext and the acting that goes into delivering a message.  24:01 - Lau (Host) Save it for your character demo if it's appropriate, yeah, and your coach will help you to see. If it's appropriate, put it on your character demo, right, because we're back to having adults doing kids' voices. Now for character work we are. So you know you got to keep your finger on the trends, keep your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry and what's going on and reflect the work that you would actually do and be cast in.  24:25 - Anne (Host) Adults doing kids' work is. There's a lot of times that tends to make it easier with the legal aspects of things. Is that not correct? Yeah?  24:34 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It does.  24:34 - Anne (Host) So, like an adult, can work longer, can work different hours, and that also translates to on-camera as well, right Lau? Yeah, though I'll tell you we don't have as many problems in the voiceover world because the jobs tend to be quicker.  24:46 - Lau (Host) Oh, yeah, unless they're running a recurring character. They tend to be quicker.  24:58 - Anne (Host) It's more the on-camera stuff. Yeah, right, that's much harder, so we'll do 18 to play 12 or 19 to play 14, because of all the laws involved with education. Well, that's the way it's been for such a long time, right, yeah, forever, forever and ever, yeah, forever. And on camera, absolutely.  25:05 - Lau (Host) But, as you said, like you do your due diligence, you do your homework. We have to do our homework too, all the time about our industry, what's cooking, what's happening, what are the jobs in the genre we want to be going out for, and that should be reflected on your demo, not the old read from you know, the old announcer read from 1991. Right and I'm getting.  25:30 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in addition to all that right, what should be on the demo? I just have an increasing number of people who are like, well, I can't afford my demo but or I can't afford, well, I can't afford the training, but I want to get a demo so I can start working. So it's kind of like what came first, the chicken or the egg. It it's tough because you really need the training so that you can execute and deliver the spots on your demo. That will get you the work. And so if I'm a demo producer, that's just going to direct you into those reads. By the time you get into your own studio you're not going to be able to recreate them.  26:08 - Lau (Host) And we've covered this in numerous episodes of VO Boss in that like don't come in with desperation, don't come in with no capital, don't come in at a deficit. Come in where you've got a little bit of abundance and say I want to get the most effective portfolio product that represents me, because I know I'm going to get a return on this over time if it is industry standard and represents me well, if I DIY it, you get what you pay for.  26:35 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly, and you know, I do have a number of students as well who say that I'm saving up for a demo, but I want to start working and so I want to get an agent. And what most people don't understand this is slightly off topic but kind of in a parallel path Most people that come into this industry not understanding that an agent primarily deals in broadcast. So you can have an e-learning demo, but you're not going to get an agent with that. You need to have a commercial demo or whatever the agent specializes in for the most part, any type of broadcast. So you can't just you have to have a great demo, a great commercial demo, to land an agent, and then, once you have an agent, that's not going to be 100% of your work, or nor should it be 100% of your work.  27:18 And so most people are like well, I'm going to direct market and I'm like, do you know how hard it is to direct market? And I'm not saying that you should, because most people right now are saying nay to the pay to plays, right, because it's like, oh, I don't like this pay to play. I feel like they're taking my money, it's hard, I can't get a job, but also you need to, you need to present yourself with opportunities and so, yes, direct marketing is great, but that's also, that is also a path that doesn't happen overnight. Direct marketing. It is very much a timing issue with direct marketing and it's going to be.  27:48 It's a marathon, not a sprint, and that can make people kind of put off and you know they're going to be frustrated, they're not going to be able to get work right away, and that's, I think, that cycle that most new people coming into the industry they go through. They have that cycle where they can't afford, like they have that illusion in their head that it's just talking behind a mic and it doesn't require a lot of work and so therefore, they can create their own demo so they can save some money and then they can start getting work right away. And unfortunately, that's just not how typically the industry works.  28:24 - Lau (Host) No, it's not.  28:24 They're going to have to adjust and really manage those unrealistic expectations those unrealistic expectations, because I'm quite certain that many, many students around the world who are going into programs to be an accountant, a doctor, a lawyer, are not coming in with tremendous amounts of money, but they have to be resourceful to figure out how to get their education so that they can train and get an internship and work their way up. And it's the same with us. We're just on a tighter timeline. We don't need to go through four years of school or eight years of college necessarily, and that's a great point.  28:56 It's a great point Most people.  28:58 - Anne (Host) they think there's no time involved. So it's like that's right, but there is some time involved. I mean, there is some training involved. But yeah, I think what a great discussion Again. Yet another discussion on demos. What a great discussion again, yet another discussion on demos. But, guys, hopefully it's one that's current and relevant now for you, those of you out there that are really thinking about getting into this career just reiterating how important your demo is in order to help you to move forward and have a career and get work broadcast, non-broadcast, whatever genre.  29:30 - Lau (Host) Yes, yes.  29:32 - Anne (Host) Fantastic. Thank you, Lau, for having this lovely conversation. I loved it. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and be like bosses and boss superpowers like Lau and myself. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye, see you next week.  29:54 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at VOBosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPD TL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere share decades of combined experience, reflecting on the realities of voice acting career longevity. From the cassette tape demo era to today's digital age, the hosts emphasize that sustaining a career for 20+ years requires more than just talent—it demands resilience, strategic goal setting, and a deep sense of gratitude to combat the inevitable inconsistency of the industry.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the extraordinary Tina Marasco, Head of Casting at Sound and Fury, a respected coach, and the voice of HGTV's Love it or List it. With over three decades of experience spanning agency, acting, and casting, Tina offers indispensable casting director secrets for bridging the gap between a voice actor's truth and a client's real-world needs.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Danielle Famble and special guest Jennifer Clark (Host of Human Kindness at Work podcast) for a Boss Money Talk Series crossover episode. They explore the profound impact of charitable giving. This episode demonstrates that giving—whether time, money, or relationships—is not just good for the soul; it's a strategic act that combats hopelessness, strengthens local ties, and creates powerful networking opportunities for your voiceover business.   00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, Anne Ganguzza here. Imagine a voiceover journey where every step is filled with discovery and growth. That's the path I want to work on with you, through nurturing coaching and creative demo production. Let's unveil the true potential of your voice together. It's not just about the destination, it's about the gorgeous journey getting there. Are you ready to take the first step? Connect with me at anneganguzza.com.  00:32 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, anne Ganguza.  00:51 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey, everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Money Talk series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguza,z and today's show is a very special crossover moment. I'm joined by my regular Boss Money Talks co-host, Danielle Famble, financial strategist, voice actor and the person who keeps our boss business brains sharp. Yay, yay, hey, Anne, hey, and we're teaming up with the amazing Jennifer Clark, a powerhouse voice actor and the host of the Human Kindness at Work podcast. Today, we're going to talk about the power of giving, how it fuels mental wellness, strengthens our brand and builds real community in the voiceover world and beyond. And we'll also be talking about 100 Voices who Care, which is a charitable organization led by these two powerhouses that supports local communities by combining donations to impact local charities. So let's get into it, ladies. Thank you so, so much for joining me today. Thanks for having us.  01:48 - Speaker 4 (Host) Anne.  01:48 - Anne (Host) Yay, I'm very, very excited to talk to you guys about this, because I think this is something that it exists and every time there seems to be, let's say, possible issues in the community or you know people that need help, we get those GoFundMes, we get people who talk about, you know, donating to charities and stuff like that, and I think it's something that we need to really talk about more, about how it can affect us in a positive manner and also how it can affect our businesses. So let's maybe start by talking about the psychology of donating and giving. And, jennifer, I know, in your Human Kindness podcast you which is wonderful, by the way, guys, you absolutely must tune into that you talk to people all the time about giving and human kindness, and so what are your thoughts about you know, what are the benefits of giving?  02:43 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, I'm not a doctor, but I can speak as someone who has been, you know, intentionally giving for most of my life, and as I'm talking to guests who are really active in their community and showing human kindness at work. What I see in myself and in people that I'm talking to is that it does something for our mental health. It's really easy to look at the world, especially right now, and you wake up every day and there's another crazy thing going on. The world is constantly on fire and it's really easy to get depressed fast. I mean, that's the fastest ticket to depression, right? Just read the news, right and we lose sight of all the really good things that are going on in the world. We lose sight of the really good people that there are.  03:36 Being a part of giving is like linking arms and finding all those people in your local community and the world at large that are doing the work. They're trying to bring change, and it's really uplifting. It's one of those things I don't know what it's called, but it's kind of like when you're looking for something you know when I wanted to buy a new vehicle, I had never seen anybody drive this vehicle and then all of a sudden, when I was like I want a Volkswagen Atlas. I saw it everywhere, Absolutely everywhere. And it's the same with giving. When you look around and you're like man, nobody is doing anything, Nobody is getting involved. In my community, Nonprofits are suffering. But then you start getting involved, you will make connections like crazy and you'll start seeing all of the good and it is so uplifting. It really does change your perspective.  04:34 - Anne (Host) Oh, absolutely I can imagine, because, especially now, just with the craziness, as you mentioned, of the world, and there's a lot of times when I will open up my social media and then, oh my goodness, just start reading or the news and I just start to feel hopeless and what can I do? What can I do? First of all, to feel, because it's making me feel bad and not like I don't know, functional in a lot of ways, and I want to be able to help and I don't know how to help. And I think this is one way that we can focus on something that can absolutely make a big difference in our lives and, of course, other people's lives as well, and to be able to connect with people who are doing good in the world. That gives me hope.  05:25 - Speaker 4 (Host) And I think sometimes we look at problems and it's so overwhelming and we think we have to reinvent the wheel, Like oh. I got to start a nonprofit or fix the solution. There are already boots on the ground that are doing work. So making a difference, giving of yourself your time, your resources, your energy, doesn't have to be hard. It's just a matter of finding something that you want to give yourself to, and don't reinvent the wheel, just join into the good work that's already going on. Yeah.  05:56 - Speaker 3 (Host) It kind of reminds me of that.  05:57 I think the quote is attributed to Mr Rogers, or maybe Mr Rogers did the quote from someone else, but the look for the helpers quote I was.  06:07 I was speaking with a friend of mine who we were both sort of commiserating about what was going on in the world and how frustrating it is, you know, with money being pulled from certain social organizations and that's their lifeline, and she worked for one of those organizations and she was like of those organizations and she was like you know, we can get upset about it, we can get mad about it, we can feel hopeless about it. Or you can look for the helpers. You can look for the people who are out there like you said, jennifer boots, on the ground doing the good work, and it changes your psychology to see, okay, these are the possibilities, this is what's out there, these are the people who are already doing the work. How can I help them? And when you can look at that and you can find that pattern, recognition of people helping the helpers, then you can figure out how you can put your hand behind the plow and do something too.  06:58 - Anne (Host) What do you think are the things that stop people from either looking for this or from donating? And, of course, I think one of the biggest things that people will say is but I don't have any money. I don't have the money to donate. I can barely keep myself surviving in today's world. What do you say to that?  07:17 - Speaker 4 (Host) I would say we have to look beyond just finances. Financial giving is really important, especially for local nonprofits, but we have so much to give. You have to look at yourself as a whole. So you have energy, you have time, which I think are your two greatest resources, and you have money. You have relationships. So, looking at those four areas of your life, where can you give in those time, energy, money, relationships? And if you really are, I've been in times of your life. Where can you give in those time, energy, money, relationships? And if you really are, I've been in times of my life I am strapped for cash. You know, my husband was unemployed a few years ago, like it was super tight. So I get it. There are legitimate times that you don't have any extra money, but you still have time, energy relationships that you can give to.  08:19 - Anne (Host) So I would say look at that whole picture, not just your pocketbook their energy or their relationships because I love that you mentioned relationships too, because connecting with people who may have at the time the financial resources to help or other methods and sources to help is also a wonderful way to give back.  08:40 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah, social capital is a huge one because you never know what that connection that you are making between two people or groups or organizations, what that will do and that will yield in their life.  08:54 So that's a huge one, even looking outside of the box.  08:58 I was just reading a story about a woman who was at a park with her kids and noticed that there were some kids who didn't seem like they were being attended to by an adult and, instead of making an assumption, what she decided to do was essentially just take care of those kids for a little bit of time.  09:16 And she was offering her time as a resource, as essentially child care, and not making an assumption about what was happening with the parents or anything else in their situation. She was like, ok, I'm a safe place, I'm a safe person and I can provide some, some respite for these parents who may be further away, who need a little bit of time away. And she did that and that was her way of giving back. And she, when she was explaining it to me, or when she was explaining it and I was reading about that story it's not something I think that people think about off the top of their head Like, oh, this time that I have, or the ability to care, is a resource like do an inventory and audit of what you've got, what you are willing to give, what you are able to give, and then figure out a way that you can creatively if it's not financially a creative solution that you can provide for people who need it.  10:11 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I have a neighbor who literally just got an email this week. She typically in the summer she goes to the East Coast to stay in her home over there with other family and she offered her home to a family who had just lost theirs in the fire and the recent fires in California and you know a family that you know it was complete strange to her. And she wrote us an email and said hey guys, I'm offering my place for this family to stay for the month while I'm away on the East Coast, and they recently lost their home in a fire and would you mind welcoming them? Because not only did they lose their home but they lost their community, and so I think that, as a sense of community, would be really wonderful if you could help welcome them. And it was amazing to see the thread in that email, because all of us responded and said oh yeah, come to happy hour on Saturday, or hey, we were playing bunco or whatever it is. Come, I'll pick you up and take you over there and introduce you to everybody. And I just it was such a wonderful thing and I thought there you go, there's something that didn't really cost any money and it was something with the whole community getting together. It was just something really wonderful to see, especially like, yeah, I've had a stressful week Really wonderful to see, especially like, yeah, I've had a stressful week. And to be able to like, all of a sudden, get an email like that and then see the community come together and give it just was really a wonderful thing. And I just I think now I'm like I want to start a podcast and I want to be Jennifer, I want to be Danielle, because I know you guys also are leading the 100 Voices who Care, which we'll talk about in just a minute, because 100 Voices who Care is a wonderful organization that was a longtime sponsor of the VO Boss podcast, so I'm excited to talk about that.  11:58 So I love that we just came up with all of these ideas, because I think the number one excuse why people think that they can't give is the fact that they don't have any extra financial support, that they can, that they can donate Awesome. So let's talk about so we've got a lot of benefits where it, first of all, it makes us feel good, right, we're helping somebody else. It can give us hope in a, in a, in a place, in a world that might seem hopeless at the time or just frustrating. Might seem hopeless at the time or just frustrating. So let's talk about as businesses. How can giving help maybe our businesses and I don't like to think that it's like, oh, I want to just help my business. It's not I don't know if that's like the foremost reason that I want to give, but hey, if I am giving and I'm able to help others and I feel good about that, know that also. It can, it can positively affect our businesses as well. So, danielle, what do you think about that?  12:53 - Speaker 3 (Host) Yeah, no, there are so many ways that it can affect and help your business. One way and you know we'll think about it from financially, because you know I like to talk about money.  13:02 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Of course.  13:04 - Speaker 3 (Host) When you can give to businesses, you can get some sort of tax benefit as well at the end of the year.  13:10 So financially, if you're giving to a 501c3, you can write that off against your taxes at the end of the year in some cases. So that's one financial way that it can help, but also in the social capital as well. When you're out and you're meeting people who you can help or who you'd like to support, the organizations you'd like to support, it's a great way to meet other like-minded people and maybe other like-minded businesses, organizations that I enjoy supporting in my local organization, and I got to meet a ton of local business leaders and they got to know who I was and I was like the first voice actor they had ever met which was an interesting conversation.  13:57 So there are ways to meet other people and engage in just community building, especially locally, because we are local businesses as well as global businesses doing what we do in voiceover. But there's also a financial benefit too building especially locally because we are local businesses as well as global businesses doing what we do in voiceover. But there's also a financial benefit too.  14:12 - Anne (Host) And isn't that honestly like? Isn't that one of? Like the one on ones of how do I get work in the voiceover business? Right, One is OK, so we maybe try to join a roster, we try to get an agent, and then there's we'll go to your local chamber of commerce, Right? Think of this type of thing, Think of you know the possibilities of charitable donations in terms of networking, because it's all about the relationships and, as a matter of fact, a lot of the ways that we get and secure and keep jobs to keep our businesses alive and successful is through relationships. And what better relationship? Not only something that makes you feel good that you've done something to help somebody else, but also the possibility of maybe networking with people who can also support your business. Jennifer, I'm sure you've spoken to many people in your podcast also that have been able to help their business and or other local businesses. Talk about that.  15:11 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, I'll give you an example. Someone that I interviewed a few months ago was a local nonprofit here in Kansas City called Foster Light and they provide wraparound care for foster families and I loved their mission so much that I was like they had a gala coming up, a fundraising gala, and I was so compelled by their mission that I took my CPA's advice. She said you need to start spending money, and so I sponsored the gala and that was my first time doing that, but it was strategic because it was a mission that I loved and I was going to give to anyway. But I did it strategically so that then I'm advertising my business Right, right, and I'm supporting a mission that I love and I get networking opportunities. There was like for all the sponsors, there was like a meet and greet VIP happy hour beforehand, so I got networking and networking with like businesses, not just a normal attendee. So it was threefold and I thought I'm going to keep doing this because it was beneficial to me on all fronts.  16:18 - Anne (Host) So I have to ask your CPA said you need to spend some money, Jennifer. What was her reasoning behind that? And I'm pretty sure Danielle can answer that too, probably just off the cuff, without knowing. Yeah.  16:28 - Speaker 4 (Host) Why did you have to spend money? I've had a really good year. Ok, I love it, so I need to bring that taxable income down.  16:35 - Anne (Host) There you go, there you go. Yes, see, I love it, I love it, I love it. Yeah, so lots of benefits.  16:42 - Speaker 3 (Host) And can I just jump on that just for a second, because it's so important and good for you, jennifer.  16:49 - Anne (Host) That's wonderful.  16:50 - Speaker 3 (Host) So really, that happens, it happens right. You have a wonderful year, you have a great year and typically what we'll do as voice actors is okay, great. We're going to go to voiceover conferences we are going to support and we're going to make sure that we give to other voiceover events maybe help with keeping the money in our community, which is wonderful and it's a great tax write-off. I like to joke. I like business travel, right, I like to travel for business with these conferences and everything else. But this is another way that you can have that same kind of effect financially for your business. But you're also doing good and networking in your local communities, and the idea again for businesses is to try to create profit, right, and so if you're networking with people who potentially could hire you for voiceover work or think of you for connecting with other people, that's another way to help do good in the world, do a whole lot of good in the world.  17:47 - Anne (Host) And actually, if you don't mind, I want to tag team on that and say that a lot of times when I would go to the Chamber of Commerce, right, it was mostly other businesses just trying to hook up so that we could make money off each other, and it was never. It wasn't always as successful as I wanted it to be. But if you're meeting for another reason, if you're meeting at a charitable organization, you know you're meeting with people who are wanting to give or have the ability to give, and that's a completely different reason to have a good networking connection as opposed to let's just network because we want to try to get work from each other. So that is one big major difference. That is one big major difference. So I really feel like it can be advantageous or strategic to to really get more involved with, with a charitable donation or that community You're finding like hearted.  18:36 Yes, yes.  18:38 - Speaker 4 (Host) Absolutely, and those people are more likely to hire you because it's like hey, we love the same mission, you're a giver, I'm a giver, let's do business together. I would much rather do business with someone like that than some random business.  18:53 - Anne (Host) So here's something, because I know people they feel timid if they don't have a lot to give, right? There's people I mean, if you can give up your, everybody says, if you can give up your Starbucks, right, one Starbucks a day. You know you're able to give. So what advice would you give to someone who wants to give back but feels like they can't, they're not giving enough or it's too little and they're embarrassed. You know what I mean and it's not like, oh, I'm not making a sizable contribution.  19:19 - Speaker 4 (Host) I mean I'd say, first of all, don't compare your giving to anyone else's giving. You really have to put your blinders on in life and run in your own lane. So whatever you are able to do, do that wholeheartedly and don't compare your giving to danielle's giving or my giving or anne's giving um, this is your life and your time, your money, your energy, your relationships and you, you gotta do what's what's right for you.  19:49 - Speaker 3 (Host) And measure it with your heart right. Like, your heart is to give, no matter the size of the gift, your heart is to do something good in the world. That's your intention. So the amount of money is really at that point, it's not really as important as the fact that you saw a need, you wanted to give something and you gave of. You know what you had which could be a greater sum than the amount that someone else gave. So really look at that from a place of like I'm giving everything that I have, this is all I've got to give, this is what I can afford to give. If it's a monetary amount and that is immeasurable you can't measure someone's desire in that way. So look for where you can do the most impact with that amount of money or just give it because that's what your heart said to give.  20:41 - Speaker 4 (Host) And I think if we all just sit on our hands and use that as an excuse like, well, I only have the $7 giving up my Starbucks this week to give, if we all just wait on that, then nothing happens. Change doesn't happen.  20:55 - Anne (Host) Okay, possibly the elephant in the room, because sometimes, like I said, people feel pressured, right? Sometimes people feel pressured to give and then when there's a place to give where they see like, oh, so-and-so just donated $1,000. And then you might be looking at it going well, I don't have $1,000. So should I put my name there? What are your thoughts on that Name anonymous? I think there's benefits and there's pros and cons to both. To be quite honest, I think that it's really a personal choice.  21:27 - Speaker 3 (Host) I mean, this entire topic giving is so personal because it's tied to your desire to do something good in the world and to help in a way that you are able to help. So if it feels right to you to put your name on it and say this is what I gave and this is what I was able to give, and I'm proud of that and I want to put my name on it, great. If you want to not have your name on it, I've given, and given completely anonymously because it felt like the right thing to do for me, anonymously, because it felt like the right thing to do for me.  22:01 That was just the choice that I made at that time, so I don't think that it. Please try not to in this way. As Jennifer was saying, please keep your blinders on. Please understand that your reason and your why for giving is the reason to give, whether it's anonymously or with your name on it. And another way, even if you feel like maybe you're not giving a lot of money, whatever that number is for you, what you can do is you can team up with other people and combine your gift to make it a larger gift, which is what we do with 100 Voices.  22:29 Who Care?  22:30 - Anne (Host) What a wonderful segue into one of the reasons why I love this organization 100 Voices who Care. Talk to us a little bit about the organization, and I think it actually kind of just really leads itself nicely after the conversation we just had, because you don't have to, you don't have to give a lot, but together it makes a huge difference. So talk to us a little bit about 100 Voices who Care. What's it all about?  22:53 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, there are a lot of groups in the voiceover community that we join to get something right, like health benefits, vo workouts, accountability for your business, etc. Those are all wonderful and needed, but 100 Voices who Care? Is a group that you join to give. We are a group of voice actors who are changing our communities through our collective generosity. So we meet once a quarter. Virtually. Each member commits $100 per quarter and we also bring to that virtual meeting a local nonprofit that we want to nominate and we choose three to five local nonprofits to members to pitch those nonprofits. We vote via the poll on Zoom and then whichever nonprofit wins our majority vote receives the entire donation from all the members, it can mean up to, I believe, $10,000.  23:57 - Anne (Host) Is that correct? So, collectively, right, if you have 100 people that are joined, it can mean $10,000 for that local organization that you want to support.  24:06 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Per quarter, which is amazing.  24:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, oh, per quarter. Yeah, thank you for correct me. My financial boss over there, thank you, I love it Just keeping you in line. Yeah, I love it Just keeping you in line. Yeah, I love it because you may think that your $100 isn't really doing a lot, but in reality, when you combine it with the community, I mean that is amazing. I mean that's per quarter to help an organization and that is something I think you can be proud of. And the fact is is that not only are you helping a local organization to do good, but you're also networking with like minded voice actors. So not only are you like minded in your maybe in charities that you support or you know ideals that you support, but also your voice actors as well. So there's so many benefits to that, and I've always, always loved this organization, so I'm so glad that the two of you are heading it up. So how does it work? How can people join this organization? And are they tied to a year, or are they tied? You know how does that work. So we.  25:09 - Speaker 3 (Host) the way it works basically is that we are open to any voice actor who wants to join our organization. We give through a third party called Grapevine. So Jennifer and myself, as we are the leaders of 100 Voices who Care, we're not touching any of the money. So you would join through Grapevine. We all get together and Grapevine is the one who takes our $100. Grapevine also will vet the nonprofit, that is, the organization that we would give the money to as the donation. We are not doing anything other than meeting, finding local organizations, pitching that organization to the greater group 100 Voices who Care and Grapevine really takes care of all of the nitty gritty of keeping our money, sending it out, vetting the nonprofit to make sure that everything is above board.  26:02 - Anne (Host) I was going to say I really, I really like that that they vet the organizations that you're giving to, because you vote right as a collective, you vote on who to give that money to, and so it may not have been your personal choice that maybe wins. And so you might feel like, well, you know where's this money going to and what are they doing with it. So I really love that you have a third party that's vetting. And is there somebody that vets grapevine? Do you know what I mean? Some people might have that question or talk about grapevine. Have they been? I mean, has this been around? How long has this been around? How long have they been working with this?  26:36 - Speaker 4 (Host) I don't know the answer to that. We've been with Grapevine from our inception, so we started in 2022. Oh.  26:42 - Anne (Host) OK, so it's been a good number of years yeah.  26:46 - Speaker 4 (Host) And we've always had a wonderful experience with them as far as that vetting process and they've got a great customer service as well.  26:54 - Speaker 3 (Host) So we have reached out to them just to ask questions about how to better facilitate. You know our group or what we could, who we could be giving our money to, and they answer us within a day or two days. We've even emailed back and forth with the founder of Grapevine, so they've been wonderful to work with and they've got great customer service as well.  27:20 - Anne (Host) So you've been doing this since 2022, is that correct? Yeah, so what are some of the organizations that have been helped by 100 Voices? Who Care?  27:29 - Speaker 4 (Host) Well, our very first recipient was called the Grooming Project. Now they're called Prosperity, but they're here in Kansas City. I had the privilege of pitching them. They are my favorite nonprofit in Kansas City. They're based here. They are the country's only nonprofit dog grooming school. In the entire country. They have this really transformative program that breaks the cycle of poverty through extensive job training within this booming industry of pet grooming. So their students are usually society's most vulnerable. They focus on single parents living in poverty. So these students not only learn the art of dog grooming but they learn life skills like budgeting and parenting, emotional regulation, things like that. So once they go through this two-year program, they graduate having a grasp on life, you know, and then they have this trade that they can make a real living in. So it is literal life change. My dog groomer went through this program. This is how I came to know Posparity. She was in the first graduating class and she was so successful that she managed the salon that they offer to the community at a low cost.  28:48 So that students get an opportunity to work on their trade and then it goes back into supporting this mission. But she managed that salon and then she was so successful that she bought the entire salon with Prosperity's Blessing.  29:04 - Anne (Host) That's wonderful.  29:05 - Speaker 4 (Host) Took all of the workers with her, with Prosperity's Blessing, and she has this thriving dog grooming business in the Casey Metro.  29:12 - Speaker 3 (Host) Oh, that's wonderful.  29:13 - Speaker 4 (Host) You know she, prior to this program, she was working multiple jobs, single mom of two, living in government housing. Her life is completely different and now she hires prosperity graduates in order to give back, so I love it. These are the kind of when you're when you're looking in your local community for a local nonprofit to bring to a 100 Voices who Care meeting. These are the kind of things that you get connected to.  29:41 - Anne (Host) This is.  29:42 - Speaker 4 (Host) I see Christine, my pet groomer. Pet groomer every six to eight weeks because I have a golden doodle and they need lots of grooming. I'm in her life now and there's just nothing like that to be connected to people in your community doing good work and giving back.  30:00 - Anne (Host) So how can people sign up for 100 Voices? Who Care if they're interested? I mean, do you have a period of time, that a special time that they sign up? Because you say you're giving quarterly, so I assume that there's another quarter coming up. Yeah, so there?  30:12 - Speaker 3 (Host) we have meetings every quarter. Our next meeting is going to be on November 17th and you can really sign up at any time, but the idea is that you would be coming to our next meeting. We ask that people are ready to pitch. You would also be getting that $100.  30:32 Great Fine, would be debiting that money and you can set up as a recurring payment through your credit card, but we ask that people are also, yes, ready to pitch, but also bring a friend, because we want to grow this to the 100 voices so we can get to our $10,000 per quarter. Absolutely, absolutely.  30:50 - Anne (Host) Now, do the people that join? Do you have to bring a local charity? Or, if you're not familiar, I think it's great because I feel like you should research. Or if you're not familiar, I think it's great because I feel like you should research charities yeah. But if somebody maybe not have any preference, is it something that you take care of or that's okay?  31:06 - Speaker 4 (Host) We ask that people research small, local nonprofits. It does not have to be local to you, oh okay, but we're just saying you know Red Cross, st Jude Research Hospital. They're doing great work, but they have huge donors, huge budgets. Everyone knows about them. So we want to find those nonprofits that are doing good work in local communities. So that can be anywhere, but we do ask that you do a little bit of research.  31:30 We have a really easy email template, so that once you find that nonprofit, you just email our template, fill in the blanks, email our template off. And there are people at these organizations whose job it is to answer these questions. You know, I think a lot of people feel like they're imposing or they feel weird asking these questions, but literally there are people who are, you know, doing applications for grants all the time. So they already have these answers ready to go and this template that we've made just makes it so easy for you to create a pitch, a nomination out of that. So, yeah, we just ask that you do a little bit of research We've made it as easy as possible and that you bring it to the meeting.  32:13 - Anne (Host) Great, when do they go to sign up?  32:16 - Speaker 3 (Host) They can go to our Instagram. There's a link in our Instagram where they can go to sign up and we just, you just take it from there and it'll take you to Grapevine, where you will sign up through Grapevine.  32:29 - Anne (Host) And bosses. I'll put that in the show notes for any of you and, of course, when we, when we promote the show, which we will be doing heavily we'll be putting that link in there as well. So last question, guys If a listener takes just one action after listening to this podcast, what would you want it to be?  32:46 - Speaker 3 (Host) Sign up for 100 Voices who Care. Join us, Use your singular give to be with a collection of people who really want to do good in our local communities. And you know, just join us with 100 Voices who Care.  33:01 - Anne (Host) Jennifer, because Danielle took yours probably.  33:03 - Speaker 4 (Host) Yeah well, I would just piggyback off of that to say if you're hesitant, if you're like I'm not sure that I'm ready to commit, just come check us out. We welcome guests in our Zoom meetings. Just come see what our collective generosity is all about, what that looks like. The Zoom meeting is on our Instagram link. You can just click it and join.  33:25 - Anne (Host) You'd be a fly on the wall, so you don't have to be committed yet there's no obligation to join.  33:29 - Speaker 4 (Host) I love that you can just come sit in check us out and then ask any questions that you'd like after that meeting. Perfect.  33:36 - Anne (Host) Sounds amazing. Well, you guys, it's been such a wonderful, wonderful episode with the two of you, danielle, as always, my money boss, thank you so much for joining me again and for bringing 100 Voices who Care to me, because Danielle asked me to bring you along, jennifer, so we could talk about it. Because, yes, there are multiple benefits, as we've discussed in this podcast, for donating and for contributing to a community who can make a greater impact. And, jennifer, for those people that want to listen to your podcast, how can they do so?  34:12 - Speaker 4 (Host) Oh, thank you. Yes, it's called Human Kindness at Work and you can actually go to my website jennifersvoicecom slash podcast and check it out there. It's called Human Kindness at Work and you can actually go to my website jennifersvoicecom slash podcast and check it out there. It's on all the major platforms and also YouTube.  34:25 - Anne (Host) Perfect, awesome, and you'll be hearing more from Danielle and I as the months come up, because I'm not letting her go. There's more money to talk about for sure. That's right. There's always more money to talk about you guys. Thank you again, so very much. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl, and of course, I'm going to tell you guys, please sign up for 100 Voices. Who Care? It is an amazing, amazing organization. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  34:52 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Ann Ganguza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution, with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza and Lau Lapides explore a core challenge for every voice actor: managing personal emotions and moods to deliver a consistent, authentic performance. The Bosses delve into how easily actors can slip into autopilot or let personal frustration compromise a read. This episode provides practical acting methodologies to help you discipline your thoughts, shift your emotional state on demand, and utilize your entire emotional range to serve the story.

Anne Ganguzza and Tom Dheere share decades of combined experience in this insightful episode, dedicated to the long view of a voice acting career. Having been in the industry since the cassette and CD demo era, the hosts emphasize that longevity is achieved not through linear steps, but through resilience, strategic adaptation, and continuous self-improvement. The discussion provides a candid look at why the work never stops, the necessity of community, and the critical importance of mastering the mental game. 00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza here. Are you ready to take the next step in your voiceover career? At Anne Ganguzza Productions, I specialize in target marketed coaching and demo production that gets you booked. If you're thinking about elevating your performance or creating an awesome demo, check me out at anneganguzza.com. 00:22 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza. 00:41 - Anne (Host) Hey, hey everyone. Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with the one and only illustrious Mr Tom Dheere, real Boss. 00:54 - Tom (Host) Hi everybody, hi Anne hey. 00:56 - Anne (Host) Tom, how are? 00:57 - Tom (Host) you. I'm doing pretty good, if I'm not mistaken, haven't you, didn't you just have an anniversary? 01:03 - Anne (Host) I did Just celebrated 25 years with my hubby whoa. It seems like yesterday. I swear to god, 25 years just went so fast that's amazing and uh, and you, just, you just were telling me about your blogiversary how long have you been blogging? 17 years oh my god, tom that blogging, I mean I've been blogging for a you been blogging 17 years. Oh my God, tom, blogging, I mean I've been blogging for a while, but blogging for 17 years is insane. 01:31 - Tom (Host) Thank you. 01:31 - Anne (Host) Wow, you must have really good SEO. That's all I got to say. 01:35 - Tom (Host) I would like to yeah. Yeah, my SEO is pretty good. 01:37 - Anne (Host) Yeah, we would like to think that you have good SEO, but, wow, so long term relationships. You know it makes me think about voiceover, because I have been in voiceover just about as long Not quite as long as I've been married to my husband, but you know, 21 years, and it's. It's incredible. I feel like I just started, but yet I don't, because it is and we always talk about it being a marathon, not a sprint and I think you've been in voiceover longer than me. 02:03 - Tom (Host) Yes, I decided I wanted to be a voice actor in 1994. 02:09 - Anne (Host) Wow yeah. And then I got my commercial demo. Some people were born in 1994. 02:14 - Tom (Host) Not me, I know. 02:17 - Anne (Host) Yeah, some of my students haven't been born. 02:19 - Tom (Host) Some bosses listening to this are going to be like, I was born in 1994. I know, or 2004. And then I got my commercial demo in 1995 and I booked my first voiceover in 1996. And I went full time as a voice actor in 2005 and started coaching in 2011. So I've been-. 02:39 - Anne (Host) Oh, I started coaching just shortly before you. Yeah, yeah, just a little bit longer, because then we started coaching just shortly before you. Yeah, yeah, just a little bit longer, because then because we met shortly thereafter at Voice 2012. 02:49 - Tom (Host) Oh my goodness, we already knew each other, but I don't think we met. 02:52 - Anne (Host) Yeah, but I remember we. 02:54 - Tom (Host) I definitely remember we hung out at Voice 2012, which was 13 years ago. Oh my gosh. 02:59 - Anne (Host) Woo At Disneyland. You know so and it's funny because we talk about you know how long have you been in voiceover and how long did it take you to become successful in voiceover? Well, I always say you know, my overnight success took many, many years. So I think and I think it's something that a lot of people don't understand, especially those that are intrigued by this industry you know thinking that, oh yeah, it's, I can stay at home, I can do this. You know thinking that, oh yeah, it's, I can stay at home, I can do this. You know, I can buy the mic. It'll cost me a few hundred dollars and then I can just start booking jobs and making money. 03:32 And I think really for I know we talk about all the time, but I think I want to have a whole episode dedicated to the realities of having a long view career and the fact that it is something that you have to be in for the long run if you truly want to be successful at it. I mean, of course, you could be in it for a couple of years and then, if you don't like it, you get out. But most people I know want to make a good, they want to be successful at it, they want to make a good living. So let's talk about what it's like to be in voiceover for a long time and what it looks like, because it's certainly not like a corporate job. I am a corporate girl and came from corporate and then education, and I certainly was not handed a paycheck every other week in this full-time voiceover job. That's for sure, because it's a much different, much different industry. It's our own businesses. 04:22 - Tom (Host) I have the luxury of being able to zoom out and look at 30 years of being in the voiceover business, where when I started, you know, they just segued out of reel to reels and started using plastic cassette tapes. So I'm of the cassette tape generation of voice actors that started in the mid 90s and now we are. I was CDs, you were CDs, so you were, just I was CDs. 04:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah, shortly after the cassettes came the CDs. 04:53 - Tom (Host) Just as CDs came out and then, a few years after the CDs, came the MP3. 04:57 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and it was a thing, because I remember the burning of the CDs was like, oh God, who do I get to do that for me? 05:03 - Tom (Host) I did it myself. 05:04 - Anne (Host) Yeah, well, that was before. Right CD burners came out and now you know you can have a CD. I had a duplication company that I did all my cassettes through and then started doing the CDs. 05:14 - Tom (Host) There, you go and then I was like wait a minute. 05:20 - Anne (Host) I can print my own labels. 05:21 - Tom (Host) using Avery, I can burn my own CDs, stick it in the tray and my desktop. 05:25 - Anne (Host) I was one of those people. I got that. The stamp thing where you push it down, you stamp your label on the CD and that was like, oh my gosh. 05:33 - Tom (Host) Oh, now I feel old. Now we're getting really anachronistic and alienating ourselves. 05:37 - Anne (Host) That was like. That was like that. That was the coolest. That was the peas knees. 05:40 - Tom (Host) That was kind of fun. 05:42 - Anne (Host) I love that little stamper. That was awesome, it was. 05:46 - Tom (Host) But anyway, so, yeah, so looking back and zooming out and looking at what are the realities of what you need to have a long VO career, I mean it starts with training. It absolutely starts with training. I'm a theater-trained actor. I went to college and then I did a little graduate work at a place called the National Shakespeare Conservatory that used to be here in New York City. So I got like hardcore theater training about body and mind and spirit and voice and engaging. I had great voice coaches, I had ballet coach, chekhov coach, like all this stuff. That really gave me a very, very, very solid, solid foundation. Gave me a very, very, very solid, solid foundation. So if you want so the so step one. If you want longevity in the voiceover industry, if you want a long career, you got to start with very solid training performance training, voiceover training, genre training, so you can be demo ready. 06:38 - Anne (Host) I didn't realize you you had been a theater trained. Yes, I did. How did I not know that about you, Tom? And I know I've known you for a long time it doesn't come. 06:45 - Tom (Host) I mean, it was so long ago, Wow. 06:47 - Anne (Host) Do you miss it? Do you still do it or do you miss it? 06:50 - Tom (Host) No, I haven't been on a stage in almost 25 years. When I discovered voiceover after I dropped out of the conservatory for reasons we will not get into as soon as I discovered voiceover I was like, oh, that's where I need to be and that's where, also, I can take all of that training that I did on stage and I had a little bit of on camera. I had a little bit of TV and a little bit of film experience very, very little bit like extra work on 30 Rock and things like that. 07:25 You know that's that sort of that. You know if you blink you'll miss me, that sort of thing. But that turned into that inhabited me. As I'll put it to you this way, that sort of training, theater training, it's like pro wrestling, like it's large gestures, projecting, you know, into an audience and then voiceovers is is boxing. It's very, it's very intimate and it's very, it's very, very close. 07:51 Um, so that all that great theater training, I had to obviously learn to make adjustments and turn from this very open, broad presentation, presentational type of acting to this very intimate, one-on-one, you know, doing this, this kind of acting. And I use that training, consciously or unconsciously, every every day, 30 years later, but, like I, I definitely attribute a big, I credit a large part of my longevity as a voice actor to the performance training that I got and I had a great voiceover coach uh, who's no longer, who's with us Um, she really set me on the path to understanding the difference between theater acting and film acting and voice, voice acting, and you know it gave me all kinds of exercises and stuff and you know I recorded. I still have the cassette demo to this day. Um, but that training I still have it. Uh, I whip it out once in a while on a, on a, on a at a conference or something. 08:48 I'll be like check it out once in a while at a conference or something. I'll be like check it out and people are like, oh my god, is that a what's? And then the Gen Z's are like what's a J card? What look? 08:55 - Anne (Host) it up if you don't know what it is in those 30 years, though, would you say that there's been like, okay, so I do this, and then I get to this level, and then this is what I do. Next, is it like a to this level, and then this is what I do next? 09:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Is it like a? You know, one of the? 09:08 - Anne (Host) steps to attaining and achieving that voiceover career. 09:14 - Tom (Host) That's a great question. First off, there are no levels, there are no steps. It never gets any easier, it just turns into different types of hard. 09:22 - Anne (Host) Ah, that we can just go home now, because that I think that sums it up in a nutshell, because it is so not a linear climb. It is not, but it's something that I think that you know over time. That's why I think you have to be in it for a long time, right, so you can adjust, you can evolve, you can work with it and understand it and somewhat predict it. I don't know. 09:45 - Tom (Host) Not predictable. Oh, I wish I could predict it. 09:48 - Anne (Host) But maybe a little bit. You can make it more predictable in certain ways, right? Yes, you can. Yeah. 09:53 - Tom (Host) Yeah, Absolutely Understanding how the industry ebbs and flows understanding trends, keeping up with performance trends, keeping up with technology trends. That's a big part of the realities of a long VO career, but but yeah, let yeah. I definitely want to drive home the point that there is no linear like do this, do this, do this successful? That's not. That's not how it works. You got to get your training, you got to get a website, you got to get demos produced, you got to set up a home recording studio. Those are your pillars. 10:35 - Anne (Host) And even the intricacies of that. Changes. I think you have to have, I think what's pillars, and even the intricacies of that. Changes have a down or a lull in your business and you question everything you've ever like. You know what got you into it in the first place. You're like, oh my gosh, I don't belong here, should I? I mean, there's so many things that happen during a lull in your business because it makes you question am I good enough? Am I valid, am I to be a success in this industry? Should I just quit? Should I give it up? Should I not have quit my job? And so there's so many things that get in the way of evolving and growing in your career. 11:17 And again, this is not a linear growth. It's ups, it's downs, and sometimes you can be like, oh, I just booked that gig, and then things are amazing for a while. But then you're like, okay. Sometimes you can be like, oh, I just booked that gig, and then things are amazing for a while, but then you're like, ok, so I should be able to book the other gig, I should be able to book a gig a week now. And then you say, ok, my goal is to book 10 jobs every week. Did you ever try that? Because I tried that a long time ago. Oh, I'm going to book. 11:44 - Tom (Host) My goal is to book 10 jobs a week. I had a very specific thing to that end, which is, I thought for a very long time I needed three very specific sources of voiceover income to be successful and consistent and sustainable on an income level. One was with a regular client that I was making well over $10,000 a year with for a number of years. One was Voice123 as a source of online casting, a source of auditions and bookings, and then I was just that elusive third source and I was saying that for years and years and years and my career has evolved and gone up and down and all around that I don't think that way anymore, because what's interesting is that client that was paying me well over $10,000 for many, many years, who I still work with to this day. I've worked with them since 1997. I now book one or two clients, one or two gigs a year with them, because their business model changed and the industry of their genre changed, so therefore my relationship with them changed. 12:51 I'm still on Voice123 making great money, and there's so many factors too. 12:57 - Anne (Host) So many factors to that and I love that because it's not just about you and your skill set and your skill level. The industry changes because our clients change. Their industries change right, their jobs change. Our relationships change with the people that some people come and go from jobs, and especially when you're talking about the repeat client or clients that you've had for years, which are great, they're wonderful, they're one of the more predictable things in this industry that you can count on, but then again, you know, don't count on them all together because tomorrow they could be gone. 13:33 - Tom (Host) Right, and as you were talking, I just had a revelation. 13:37 - Anne (Host) Ah Okay. Will you disclose the revelation, Tom? Oh, no, I'm going to share. 13:42 - Tom (Host) No, I'm going to leave and run away and write a book. 13:44 - Anne (Host) No, let's go. I must go now. No revolution share. 13:47 - Tom (Host) No, I'm going to leave and run away and write a book. No, let's go, I must go now. No revolution, no, no, no, no, no. So this is one thing I've realized In the past 25 years or so of me being a voice actor roughly 50% of my voiceover income has come through e-learning, explainer, corporate, industrial, medical. That's been roughly 50% of my income this whole time, almost since the beginning. 14:10 - Anne (Host) So that's been stable. 14:11 - Tom (Host) Yes, but what hasn't been stable is the other 50%. We're talking purely on a genre level. On a genre basis On a genre level, well yay corporate explainer e-learning. Right. 14:26 - Anne (Host) All my stuff too, no-transcript. 14:50 - Tom (Host) Yeah, it's interesting because now that I'm kind of thinking through the evolution of what the other 50% has been and the other 50% hasn't been all one other genre but it's been a combination of other genres but I would say, for the first third of that years, a big part of that years, that other third was that part a big part of that other 50 was commercial. But then around from 2011, basically for like roughly 2011, and for another 10 years it turned into audiobooks, that which a big, the lion's share of that other 50 was audiobook narration, and now what a big chunk of it is is political. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so things change. 15:31 - Anne (Host) Mine is more. Yeah, I'm going to say mine is more heavier on the e-learning, just because it's what I enjoy doing E-learning, corporate explainer, all of that side. 30% commercial, but again that's the one that is super volatile, the commercial genre aspect of it. And audiobooks. I did one and I said uh-uh and I was no longer going to pursue that, and then I had other areas of my business that I found to be interesting, which obviously VO Boss was one of those. Vo Peeps was another thing and those were alternate sources of income. 16:03 But when you talk about just voiceover, the real steady part has been the size of the market in the non-broadcast long format narration genres, and I always tell people like it's just a huge market that is always needing voiceover. 16:21 And for me that's just kind of where I live, because I love it number one and I find it to be challenging intellectually and also creatively, and so that's where I choose to spend my time, pursuing income and pursuing jobs in those genres. In terms of ups and downs, yes, but there's ups and downs in those genres as well because, again, you're still trying to find the client, you're trying to, you're trying to be able to, to get the client's attention. Yes, right, I mean there's, there's. It can be a huge market, but if they don't know, you're out there, right. And then part of that is the let's try to get their attention to say, hey, I'm out here, you can hire me for that voiceover, let me audition for you, I'm available, you know I'm reliable and that sort of thing. So that's, that's got to be like a big portion of the consistency, like resilient. Being resilient and consistent I think is so important in having a long term career in this industry, resiliency and consistency. 17:26 So at the beginning- Resilient, resilient, resilient, right here on my arm. 17:29 - Tom (Host) Oh, look at that. 17:29 - Anne (Host) Resilience. Yes, resilience is on my arm, so-. 17:32 - Tom (Host) Oh, that's, I didn't know. I never noticed that. 17:34 - Anne (Host) That's crazy yeah it is definitely a plus. 17:38 - Tom (Host) So as a just a very brief recap, and then keep going, the realities of long VO career. We said training at the beginning and then I talked about genre stability working in stable genres, and then when you're talking about consistency and resilience. But you touched upon something which is also the next part of it is adapting to the realities of marketing strategies, because marketing strategies, the realities of marketing strategies. 18:06 Yeah, oh my gosh. Yes, Because marketing strategies, the effectiveness of marketing strategies, changes through the years. What worked five years ago doesn't necessarily work anymore, and what didn't work or didn't exist five years ago as a marketing strategy may be a critical part of your marketing strategies and tactics. 18:24 - Anne (Host) And see well, performance too has evolved over the years, Not quite as drastic as marketing strategies and tactics. And see well, performance too has evolved over the years, Not quite as drastic as marketing. 18:31 - Tom (Host) Performance demands evolve, Genres rise and fall and grow and ebb and flow and marketing strategies. All of this stuff evolves and changes and some stuff becomes obsolete and some stuff becomes like if you're not doing it now, you may not have a career, and then five years from now, it's going to, it's going to change on you. 18:50 - Anne (Host) And when I think about like longevity right, I think about a lot of people will be like burnout, you know, is there burnout or is there just, you know, fatigue in the actual work that's involved in running a business? I think there's think there's two different things, right. I personally feel I mean, unless you've been in it for a while and you're really like I'm gonna give this a go, right, and I'm gonna audition a hundred times a day, then you experience fatigue or burnout. I can see that for sure, because I think there's more ways to really move forward than just the auditioning on a daily basis. There's so many other things you can do in terms of marketing and business, right. 19:28 But I feel like just being consistent and being out there, because a lot of times I talk about when do clients buy? We are at the mercy of the clients needing our services. Really, we are at the mercy of the clients buying or needing our services number one, and then purchasing our services, and so, unless that need exists, right, it's hard. It's like we have to just be patient and we have to be resilient and we have to be consistent in our marketing and we also have to make sure that we're consistent in our skill set right and that we are not falling into something that we're educating ourselves along skill set right and that we are not falling into something that we're educating ourselves along the way, so that if somebody is asking for a conversational read, when the script is not written conversationally but yet we're still reading it, you know, in a way that sounds like this is what they want to hear, versus you acting, you know, and that's easy to fall into. 20:22 It's very easy to fall into that. I deal with that all the time because I teach long format narration, because you can keep somebody's attention for a sentence. But talk about keeping somebody's attention for, you know, five minutes or 10 minutes or an hour right, how are you doing that effectively, especially in today's world where you know I can barely like, I can't sit through a sitcom without scroll. You know, scrolling on barely like. 20:43 - Tom (Host) I can't sit through a sitcom without scrolling on my phone. Yeah Right, no, it's definitely a challenge and that's why continuing education with great coaches like Anne not to blatantly plug too much, Because Anne who is also a narrator, who is booking work regularly, who is reading casting notices and auditioning for stuff regularly work regularly? Who is reading casting notices and auditioning for stuff regularly? Who's? 21:05 I'm assuming you're having conversations in some capacity with your representation, you know and making cold calls and emails, and doing blog posts and social media and shooting videos. Yeah, there's so much to it, right? 21:15 - Anne (Host) There's so much more than just the audition and and I did want to just want to finish my thought on like I was talking about like, is it fatigue because you're doing 100 auditions a day, or is it burnout? 21:26 I'll be quite honest with you, I don't think the majority of people that get into this industry know how much work it takes To be quite honest, know how much work it takes to actually be successful and to do this for long term. And the people that have stuck it out, they get it, I mean, and that just becomes part of their part of their strategy, part of their resilience. And, honestly, I think a lot of people they don't give it enough of a chance and they quit before they've put in the actual work. So I don't think there's burnout, to be honest, unless you're talking about people who've been at it for 20 years, right, and they're just burnt out. But in the beginning I don't think you find people with burnout because I don't think they realize just how much work it takes and I say that one more time, tom they do not realize how much work it takes and even today for me, right, and you, it takes a lot of work. 22:17 - Tom (Host) Yeah, I mean I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. A couple years ago someone booked a free 15 minute consult with me and I'm like sure what's going on. They're like I've booked, I've done all these auditions and I just can't seem to book anything. And I'm like well, how many have you done? 40? 22:33 - Anne (Host) Yes, exactly. 22:37 - Tom (Host) And I'm such a jerk I went oh, I'm so sorry, just like I did and I apologize profusely. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I really don't mean to laugh, but you need to put two zeros on the end of that before you can really. Exactly, he was very he's like okay, thanks for your time, and he pretty much hung up on me. He was very upset and I feel bad to this day. I hope he's a successful voice actor right now. I felt really bad about that. 23:06 - Anne (Host) It's funny because people, yeah, I will say that it's kind of like the old thing, like when you invite 100 people to a party, how many people show up? Right, there's a small small percentage. Right? If you do auditions, how many? If you book how many percent of those auditions? Right, and Tom, that's something you can go back to your spreadsheet. I don't have a spreadsheet. 23:25 - Tom (Host) I did have a spreadsheet before. 23:26 - Anne (Host) I know you've got the numbers and so you could say it's a lower percentage than people think they think oh, I auditioned for 100. I should be able to book 50. 23:34 - Tom (Host) No, take a zero off of that. 23:35 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly Exactly, it is in the 1% to 2% to 3%. 23:40 - Tom (Host) If you're booking 5% of your auditions, you're doing amazing. 23:43 - Anne (Host) Oh, that's amazing. And that's even if you've been in the industry for 20 years. Yeah, exactly. 23:48 - Tom (Host) And also that percentage will go up and down based on whether the auditions are coming through your representation, which there may be a lot less people auditioning for it, or if it's coming through an online casting site, especially if it's like a free online casting site, like if you're on Casting Call Club or something where literally thousands of people are auditioning, you know or if it's through your self-marketing strategies, where you're one of a handful of people with of your demographic on some production company's roster and you're one of three or four people that are auditioning. So the percentages will go up and down. But if you average the whole thing out, yeah, if you're doing 5%, you're doing really, really well. 24:23 - Anne (Host) Yeah, and I'm going to say, I'm going to say a big part of that again, it runs into this whole mindset. That I think is a huge part of success in long-term success is mindset Because, again in the beginning, when you're like, oh my gosh, i've've auditioned 40 times and I didn't get anything, or I auditioned 100 times, you know what I mean? I got a short list and so that whole thing in the very beginning of my career myself, right was hard. I had to fight through it. I had to fight, I had to make sure that I was like no, no, no, no. I am confident in my skills, I'm confident that I can do this, and I think that your mental mindset has a lot to do with your success and in sticking it out right Again and pushing through the lean times, pushing through the times where even you know I did a great audition, I could have been the perfect voice, yet I still did not get the job, understanding that people cast for many different reasons. It's not all to do with your skill or performance. 25:28 - Tom (Host) I agree. I need to make one more very important point, which is the reason why I'm able to still be in the voiceover industry, because there was a time when my income was fluctuating wildly and then kind of downshifted. This is one thing. That this is, bosses. If there's one thing I want you to take away from this conversation, it's this. It's that decision makers they make decisions in certain ways over who they're going to cast, why they're going to cast them and how they're going to cast them. That changes over time. So in the 90s there were no online casting sites. It was agents. So either you had an agent or you didn't. And self-marketing I was making in the 90s I was making 50 cold calls a day. A lot of people didn't really even have email. 26:22 Nobody knew what that was, so the decision makers in the 90s right were agents and managers which I didn't get representation for a very long time. 26:30 - Anne (Host) I didn't get my first quality, consistent rep until 2005. Yep, yep. I think it was 2006. Before that, it was 2006. 26:37 - Tom (Host) Okay, and then you know, and then it evolved into email, so I'll put it. So it's like this You're a voice seeker, you're a decision maker and you're looking in this direction and saying this is how I decide, this is how I cast voice actors. They've got these horse blinders on. This is the point where they're facing. You need to be right there in their view, being like how you doing With your demos in their hand, with the marketing and whatever, but there's going to come a point and this happens for almost all of them that at some point they're going to be like nope, this is how I make voiceover decisions now. 27:10 This is how I cast Often, and in the early 2000s to this day it's shifted where now they're looking at online casting sites. So if the view of the decision makers goes from here and it moves in the spot, let's say it's a spotlight. If that spotlight goes over here and you're not in that spotlight, they're not booking you. You need to go from there to there to be like how you doing? Because now the spotlight's shining on you, because this is where they're making decisions on how to cast, and then it'll shift again. And it'll shift again. Agents, managers, casting directors, free casting sites, pay-to-play casting sites, self-marketing strategies indirect and indirect and AI. 27:53 - Anne (Host) And I always think, like we are so isolated in our booths, right, and we're auditioning, we're like, but I've got the skillset, but I'm not getting the work right, or whatever mindset tricks you're playing on yourself. You still cannot forget that our profession is guided by the clients who hire us. Right, they're decision makers, Like, what is like, where are they hiring? How are they hiring, is it? You know? They're busy people, we're busy people. 28:21 I mean I would say that life, the pacing of this life, just gets quicker and quicker and quicker, and so some of them still rely on talent agents or their agents or casting directors to help them make decisions. Some of them are like I just need to Google at the prompt and find someone. And it really depends on who is hiring us, really depends on who is hiring us. And don't forget to educate yourself and practice resilience and strategies to get to those people and understand why they hire us, why they may not hire us and how you can get in front of them. And I love that example of the spotlight, tom, because that just makes a whole lot of sense. You've got to be in their field of vision in order for that to happen, and there can be many reasons as to why you're not, but understanding and educating yourself and evolving along with the industry and being knowledgeable in more ways than just performance. There's a lot to be said for that. 29:13 Yeah, because you know what Cold calls worked, and then they don't work, and then emails work, and then they don't work, and then newsletters work, and then they don't work. And then emails come back a little bit, and then they work again. And then postcards work, and then newsletters work, and then they don't work back a little bit, and then they work again, and then postcards work, and then they don't work. 29:24 - Tom (Host) Yeah, exactly texting works, and then social media works, and then it doesn't work and then they go to a different social media platform that you were on exactly now. 29:31 - Anne (Host) They're tired of you know, like ai, they try ai and then they. 29:35 - Tom (Host) Then they get off of ai and you know it's, it never stops, which is why you make sure that and this is a big word and make sure that legacy thinking does not stagnate your voiceover career. Legacy thinking destroys careers. 29:50 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. You have to have a broader and you have to have a broader sense of the business of voiceover to really understand and have longevity. Now there's very few people who maybe started off in the beginning. They're super talented, they're in a big market, they've got a manager right or an agent that is going to bat for them, and so you know that's a different story, but I would say that's maybe less than 1% of the total voiceover population where that's happening. 30:20 Other than that, you have to be, have your eye on the ball, you have to have your eye, you have to be in that spotlight, as Tom says, that moving, rotating spotlight. You have to be educated about that spotlight and I'm going to say that good, I'm going to say trusted people in the industry that you are have a relationship with good coaches, good agents, good managers, and your community is so important to help you to be successful. It is an isolating job, right, this is such an isolated. We're in our booths, we're by ourselves, and I know that it was a big adjustment for me when I went full time into voiceover versus, you know, having my corporate job where I went to the office every day. I had kind of a social interaction with my colleagues and my you know my teammates. And now, all of a sudden, I'm by myself and I have myself and my thoughts Scary. And my thoughts can be scary sometimes, especially when I'm doubting right, why am I not booking Right? Why? 31:18 And those thoughts can be destructive in a successful voiceover career. So the mental part of it, the resilience, the strategizing, is, I think, almost well. You can't really have a career without having good performance skills and good business skills. But also, if your mental health is not there and your community is not there to support you, your loved ones aren't there to support you, your loved ones aren't there to support you and encourage you, it's going to be really hard because it's an isolating industry and you know, thank goodness for the conferences, right, and the little get-togethers that we can have. I mean, we're just, we're like hungry people when we go to conferences. We're all like you know, we can't get enough of each other right. Seeing each other after all this time and really that community is, I think, a big part of what can help you to be successful in a long-term voiceover career. 32:11 - Tom (Host) I think you're right, anne. I think that's one of the most important ingredients to a successful long-term career is to be a part of the community for education, for inspiration, for commiseration and for renewal of purpose. 32:23 - Anne (Host) Exactly, yeah. So, bosses, we are part of a community, so I encourage you to be a part of a community. Be a part of Tom's community and really we will get through this and 20 years from now, we will still be God willing, if the technology doesn't, God willing if the creek don't rise, as the old people say. 32:44 God willing, we will still be here. We'll still be here doing voiceover and the stuff that we love, or, even if it's not voiceover, it's something that we love and that we still have our community. And so, what a great conversation, guys. Keep going. A marathon, not a sprint. Keep going. We've got faith in you and we've got a community here that can support you. Tom and I are here, so, bosses, reach out if you need, and we've got you All right. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week, bosses, and we'll see you next week. 33:21 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry-revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast-to-coast connectivity via IPDTL.

Anne Ganguzza sits down with Billy Collura, a powerhouse agent with over 30 years at CESD New York. Billy shares his unique perspective on the dramatic evolution of the voice acting industry, from the early days of union-only radio spots to the current market dominated by non-union and digital opportunities. This conversation provides essential insight into the biggest voice acting trends that have shaped the industry and reveals the simple, authentic quality that makes a voice actor successful today. 00:03 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, it's Anne from VO Boss here.  00:06 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And it's George the Tech. We're excited to tell you about the VO Boss. Vip membership, now with even more benefits.  00:12 - Anne (Host) So not only do you get access to exclusive workshops and industry insights, but with our VIP plus tech tier, you'll enjoy specialized tech support from none other than George himself.  00:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) You got it. I'll help you tackle all those tricky tech issues so you can focus on what you do best Voice acting. It's tech support tailored for voiceover professionals like you.  00:34 - Anne (Host) Join us guys at VO Boss and let's make your voiceover career soar. Visit vobosscom slash VIP-membership to sign up today.  00:43 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Slash VIP-membership to sign up today. It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss, a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  01:08 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss Podcast. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and today I am thrilled to welcome someone who truly defines what it means to be a powerhouse in the voiceover industry. With more than 30 years at CESD New York, Billy Collura has been at the forefront of commercials and beyond, representing talent with a direct and grounded approach that has earned him the trust of clients and voice actors alike. I think it's fair to say that he doesn't just follow the changes in the business. He really helps to shape them. So, Billy, I am so excited to have you here on the podcast.  01:44 - Billy (Host) Thank you for asking me. Yeah, this is so nice, yeah.  01:47 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love it, and of course we're like on opposite coasts here, so you're on my home coast and so I do miss New York quite a bit and we did have a little.  01:58 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How often do you get out here, pardon me, do you get out here often?  02:00 - Billy (Host) Do you ever get out. You know what?  02:01 - Anne (Host) Not as often as I should. I really have now started to say I'm only coming out during the warm season because I'm done with the snow. Yeah, I hear you. But I would imagine like do you travel like elsewhere in the wintertime in New York, Because I know I stay here.  02:22 - Billy (Host) I travel a lot in general um during the course of the year, but um you know, I right now I'm upstate in well. I'm up in the Hudson Valley and in the city of Hudson, which is two hours North of Manhattan, so I go back and forth Um in the winter time. No, I'm usually, I don't know, I'm usually in the Northeast sometimes.  02:43 - Anne (Host) Okay, Are you a skier? Are you a skier? No, absolutely not, Absolutely not. That was, that was what a lot. What kept a lot of people on the East coast? Um, in my area anyways, they're like oh no, I have to be able to ski in the winter.  02:56 - Billy (Host) No, I don't like the cold.  02:57 - Anne (Host) Well, I have a. I have a mountaineer in California, Uh huh.  03:00 - Billy (Host) Uh-huh.  03:02 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh. Well, anyways, it's so nice to see you again. It's been a while. I saw you at VO Atlanta and I'm just really thrilled that I have the opportunity to talk to you. I know how busy you are, but I'm just so excited that the bosses are going to get this opportunity to really benefit from your wisdom. And so, benefiting from the wisdom speaking of that, you've been at CESD for over three decades. Um, that's, that's amazing. So how would you say that your role as an agent has evolved during that time?  03:37 - Billy (Host) Well, you know like it started when I started. Um, it'll be. Um, it'll be 32 years in May. Oh my gosh, when I started, voiceover was a smaller industry and I dabbled in a little bit of everything, okay.  03:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I did commercials.  03:57 - Billy (Host) There really wasn't. There was no internet back then. So we did radio and TV commercials and industrials and I'm not even sure cable was around when.  04:08 - Anne (Host) I started. I hear you. You know we didn't have computers, any of that.  04:13 - Billy (Host) So we did a little bit of everything. And then, you know, and promos, promos were a thing, and narration and trailers, and so, you know, we did a little bit of all of that. And then, as the industry kept getting bigger and bigger, we started specializing. And all of a sudden, in animation, I dabbled in gaming, but I also, you know, but pretty much my focus was commercials, because that's where the money is, you know, and that was the day where it was just, you know, it was just TV and radio, and you made the actors made a lot of money. Yeah, it was only union, we only worked on union jobs. And now fast forward to now, where 60% to 70% of my desk is non-union. We started doing non-union in 2019. Okay, the union opportunities have pretty much dried up, and I say that, but it's ebb and flow.  05:22 I mean right now this year it was a slow summer for some reason. It was like the old days, it was really slow and I mean that union and non-union. And then I go away on vacation and it just like exploded while I was away and I've been and since then I've been playing catch up and it's been so busy with union, lots of union stuff with non union. Yeah, so it's been great there.  05:49 Yeah. So I mean that's changed and I guess for me what's changed for me is because now I specialize much more on commercials. I do have a few non-union accounts, but I have my large union study accounts, steady accounts. Um, so most of my work, uh is you know, is in the commercial world. I also happen to handle the audio books, but I always say I'm not an audio book agent. I'm the agent at CESD that handles the audio books.  06:18 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So it's a little difference.  06:20 - Billy (Host) Um so, but the audio book, what I do love about it. You know an an an agent who left um cause she was having. She got married and had babies and she said, take the audio books. They're the nicest people in the world. And I got to say they really are, and so I've kept it.  06:36 I love it. The people are so nice. Um, I really, really enjoy it. So that you know, so I I've been doing that. I also do ADR and loop group stuff, again very specialized, and there really aren't a lot of industrials. Now I know some of the other. I'm one of five, six agents in the department and then there's another two agents that work with agencies that cater to medical industrials.  07:04 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So they're doing I don't do personally.  07:05 - Billy (Host) I don't do a lot of industrials. I think a lot of the industrials have gone to the pay-to-play sites, so but the union stuff, the medical ones, they are still at the big agencies. I just personally don't happen to have those. I would say maybe the commercial aspect of right Healthcare like pharmaceuticals and that sort of thing is huge and more and more of those blue chip companies are going non-union and those rates are you know.  07:34 - Anne (Host) Sure. What do you attribute that? Why is that happening? What do?  07:39 - Billy (Host) you attribute it to is when it started, when digital work started happening, and these great companies, the Droga5s and there was so many, that's just the first one they were doing great work with the digital work. You know, they were just with stuff before even streaming, when they were just doing they were making commercials for digital work and they were doing fine work. They were doing really good work and these companies, these blue chip companies, were saying, hey, you did that for this much money, why don't you just take all of our network stuff? And that's how I remember, like 10, 12 years ago, a large fast food chain started going, you know, went totally non-union. And then the large fast food chain started going, went totally non-union.  08:25 Then there would be some that because they had a celebrity voice on certain spots, and then they would get a third party and more and more I feel like these agencies, these digital agencies, just kept getting better and better at it and the actors were getting better and better at it. And it's not like the cable stations that you see up here that you know these infomercial things that you know that you can tell it's non-union. You know I've fallen and I can't get up kind of stuff. These. They're doing great work.  08:56 - Anne (Host) I can't tell, are they doing great work because they have great actors or are they doing great work because the entire production value of it?  09:05 - Billy (Host) Yes.  09:06 - Anne (Host) Yes, yes, you know, people are getting better at it.  09:09 - Billy (Host) The voiceover people certainly, and it's not even I mean the voiceover so many people. Covid just changed the game and everybody you know voiceover was the one business in town that didn't shut down during.  09:23 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) COVID.  09:24 - Anne (Host) And every I always say every jaboni with a mic, you know, just set up a studio at home and said I'm going to do voiceover, and not only you know they were well-established Broadway and TV and film you know everybody was doing it and that's and that's so interesting because I would say the majority of people that you know cause I was I was super busy coaching during COVID and I just had so many people that just wanted to like make the demos and get into the industry. But I had a lot more of the talent that were more beginner right to intermediate. But I would imagine that with COVID, with celebrities right them wanting to get into voiceover because what else was there? Because they weren't able to go into a studio, and so I would say that a good portion of that, I would say a good portion of people that were getting those jobs, were probably the celebrities right.  10:27 - Billy (Host) Absolutely coaching. You know they just kept getting better and better at it. And you know, and, and we're willing to work for low wages, I mean that's the other thing. And you know we always say somebody takes a job for $100. You know it's just a race to the bottom. Yeah, you know, if you're gonna add, because you know we don't work on the non union stuff, we don't work on the non-union stuff, we don't work on certain things. I won't work on stuff just because it's not worth my time.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Sure.  10:49 - Billy (Host) And I don't mean to be like, oh, but $250 is a lot to some people. Oh yeah, for all the work that I have to go into it, for me to do it and have my assistant do it and doing the editing to maybe get it, it's just not worth it. But I do. I mean that's usually. My threshold is 250.  11:10 - Anne (Host) And I understand that because I always tell people, because I do a lot of non-broadcast narration, coaching and demos, and I'm always telling people they're like, well, I want an agent. I'm like, well, an agent doesn't get excited about non-broadcast stuff because it's a one and done thing. You don't make your money on that, and so typically you want to have a tip top commercial demo because that's where they're going to be making their money with the residuals and and that sort of a thing. So would you do? You think it has to do with the sheer volume of people that got into voiceover as well. If you've got enough, you know, if you throw spaghetti against the wall right there, some of them will stick. And so then I started to drive down. I'm going to say it started to drive down maybe the prices, uh, or people willing to do the work for less, because it just got to be competitive.  11:56 - Billy (Host) It did.  11:57 There's so many people doing it now, so many people, and especially in the non-union world, there's so many opportunities out there and you know, with the pay to plays and I've kind of changed my tune a little on the pay to plays and I kind of see they're there for a reason. They're a great, you know, tool for learning, for getting the experience, for the auditioning. And I and I learned recently when I was at a conference in Holland and met the CEO from Voices 123. And I learned that they love to put people together and to put the actor and the company together. Take it off the platform and do your thing.  12:41 They don't want to micromanage, like there are other pay-to-plays that micromanage everything.  12:45 But I really found that you know, oh, that's really nice, and then people can make money that way. They're not interested, they're just interested in making the match. So, but, that being said, there are so many people that are doing this now and, yeah, driving down the prices because you know, they may be this may not be their full-time gig, it just may be a side hustle for them. So, yeah, sure, an extra $200, an extra $100, an extra $350. That can accumulate. But unfortunately then they're like well, you did it last time for $100. Why can't you? So it's hard, it's hard.  13:21 - Anne (Host) It is, but would you say that the amount of jobs is diminishing or no, it's just as volume you know, I don't see volume as normal.  13:33 - Billy (Host) I'm busy, you know, but I don't know, like, like I said, this summer was slow with the opportunities, with the, with the auditions. I find that my casting directors, my union casting, just my casting directors in general, um, they, you know, I have some that are busier than others, some I will hear from, you know, once every other month, and then some I will hear from three or four times a week. You know, um, so it's and it's all you know. There's no logic to it.  14:03 - Anne (Host) And then on the um isn't that the truth. Yeah, and then um after all these years, wouldn't you think like you could? You could predict, you know.  14:14 - Billy (Host) I would say to actors you know, I'm not booking, it's just one phone call, it's one job, don't forget. They're only picking one person, but yeah, yeah, picking one person. You, yeah, you know, only picking one person you know and you don't know.  14:25 - Anne (Host) That's a way to put it in perspective. Actually, if you think about it, but in 400,.  14:30 - Billy (Host) You know how many people are auditioning.  14:31 That's why with select VO. You know that only allows you X amount of people to submit. So if they, if the agency says, if they invite you and they say you can only submit three people per role, they won't let you submit a fourth person. So you really have to be smart and we're not the type of agency that will send you know to ten people and then, sophie's Choice, the three that I want. You know, I don't believe in that. I don't. I feel it's a waste of time of the actor. It's certainly a waste of time for my assistant and for me to have to listen to, then you have to listen to them Exactly.  15:10 - Anne (Host) What's the point, you know, and so that translates to me to a good relationship with everybody that's on your roster, absolutely, that that knowledge of their capabilities and you can communicate, uh, back and forth to make sure that the two of you are are, you know, keeping up with one another, and you would be the one that say, okay, I'm going to handpick this audition and send this to this many people, because you're the one that has to do the work right To send it the top three, to the. So the client.  15:43 - Billy (Host) Yeah, absolutely so. It's my reputation and there are some casting directors that you know they will.  15:48 I will submit a list and they will pick who they want to hear you know, back up, if I lose, or if we lose somebody, who else would you like? Or, you know, sometimes they'll say these are the three I want to hear. Send me one of your choice that maybe I, somebody, I don't know, um, and then there are certain casting directors that will micromanage and they have to. They, you know they will only see these people and they're, you know, not flexible. But it just kind of makes me a better agent.  16:14 - Anne (Host) That's why we're.  16:15 - Billy (Host) Cesd is an exclusive agency. We don't oversign in the union or non-union world. We're still building up our non-union roster. You know we're still doing that, but that's where we have the most amount of opportunities. You know, in the non-union world, Sure, Plain and simple.  16:34 - Anne (Host) Absolutely, absolutely. So what would you say after all these years? What's kept you loving your job?  16:42 - Billy (Host) Because it's different every day. You know, that's the— that's the thing. I never know what's ahead of me. So I, you know, I just love. Every day there's some, there's a new challenge, there's something new. Also, recently I have a new assistant who I adore and I love teaching him. He's a little sponge and he wants to learn.  17:09 And so that kind of inspires me to want to teach him, and you know so that that is. I guess that's the difference, and also being able to, because the business has changed. Remotely, you know, I can start earlier, I'm not in the office, I I can work later, you know. It just kind of like the whole. It's such I don't want to say a relaxed, but I feel I feel more relaxed Now. It could be because I've been doing this for a hundred years, but I just feel relaxed, I enjoy what I do. I don't feel the pressure. I don't feel like there's no such thing as a voiceover emergency If somebody screws up or, you know, if I've given you know there's no such thing.  17:51 - Anne (Host) Bravo to that. I always say there's never a VO emergency.  17:54 - Billy (Host) No, there's never a first you know, if something went wrong, don't freak out. How?  17:59 - Anne (Host) do we fix it? How do we?  18:00 - Billy (Host) fix it, that's all you know.  18:02 - Anne (Host) Now, that's from your perspective. What about your client, your casting director? Your client's perspective? Are there VO emergencies? Yeah, there could be, that's on them, not on me. Yeah, okay, I love that.  18:13 - Billy (Host) I don't, you know, I wanna help fix the problem, you know, sure so. And I mean, yeah, you know, it's always something. Fortunately I haven't had any of those emergencies in a while. But you know, the other night I was it was nine o'clock my time and an LA. It was an LA agency booking a client. She happened to be on the West coast, so it worked out okay, but it was nine 30. And I was like you know, I'm old, I can't stay up. And then I thought, and I got a text from the casting director she goes we want to book so-and-so. I left all the information on the email. So I was like, oh well, I have to finish Gilded Age, this episode, and then, as soon as I'm done, I will get on my computer.  18:56 - Anne (Host) I love it, that's great?  18:59 - Billy (Host) I guess yeah. So that's what keeps me going. The relationship with my clients, I don't. It's different because back in the day, actors used to come into the office to audition. West Coast was different because you guys were MP3ing long before, because you all wouldn't get in a car and drive a half hour to the studio.  19:20 - Anne (Host) But in New York, well, because of the traffic.  19:24 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah, and that's why you couldn't get to three auditions back in the day, but it was our job in New York to get you, you know, to get you from the Upper West Side down to Wall.  19:34 - Anne (Host) Street over to Midtown yeah, I know so many voice actors who still um go into studios to audition in New York. I mean, I almost don't hear about it anymore, except for well, I'm sorry, excuse me to go into the go on for booking.  19:48 - Billy (Host) No for bookings, they will.  19:49 - Anne (Host) They encourage that now but I have heard people in the last couple of years. I mean it's not every day, but sometimes they are going in. I don't know if it's to audition or if it's to actually do the job it's usually you know there's one or two the studios.  20:03 - Billy (Host) You know a couple of the studios that do auditioning, because that's what changed? Oh, okay, that makes sense, like all the advertising agencies that were in-house casting directors and those casting directors ended up going to the studios in New York and they have in-house casting directors, so they will encourage the Sonic Unions. The. Headrooms the Sound Lounges they will encourage hey, if the client is local to New York, boom, have them come in. Oh, that makes sense. And it kind of opened up because not everybody got SourceConnect especially our older clients.  20:40 It wasn't cost effective for them for that one audition every other month. It wasn't so the foreign language people, they weren't getting it because there weren't enough opportunities. But especially I I want to say the older clients they really weren't getting so this kind of opened up. If you lived in New York you could still send an MP3 and you're able to go to Sound Lounge for the booking that was always that's always a nice caveat.  21:06 - Anne (Host) So I'm sure people ask you this all the time. Commercial voiceover has changed, evolved over the years. Advertisers have changed how they buy and consumers have changed, I think, how they listen. What would you say is what sort of things have changed in terms of trends for commercial VO? What are you looking for now that maybe is different than what was relevant maybe five, even five or 10 years ago, Because I know probably you're going to say like 30 years ago it was more of that announcer sort of style, it was promo. But you know, maybe five, 10 years ago, what has changed?  21:43 - Billy (Host) You know, it was the, you know, when I first started. It was the time, when, you know, Demi Moore started with Keds and there was that raspy, damaged sound that has kind of you know, demi Moore started with kids and she there was that raspy damage sound that has, kind of you know, was such a thing for so long and our and I know our women back then, you know, were the most successful.  22:04 - Anne (Host) I coveted that which is not a part of my genetic makeup at all. I'm like I can't, I can't get a raspy.  22:11 - Billy (Host) No, if you don't, you know you can't put oh, I woke up with a, you know, with a sore throat today. I sound great I should audition. No, you shouldn't. Exactly. So that was. You know, that was always the thing and yeah, it was the rough and tough announcers and you know all those, all those guys, and then that kind of went away and it was the John Corbett kind of sound and he was you.  22:31 he stuck around for a long time as a prototype and now it's Paul Rudd and Rashida Jones and then. So those trends kind of changed. But then about 10 years ago, everything you know really were, it was people of color. You know they wanted voices for actors and that really opened up a wide, you know a wider net. There was no general market anymore because they used to say, you know, they were very specific, we want a Caucasian voice. But now you only see that if you're doing a demo for the on-camera and the on-camera actor happens to be a certain color. But they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. Now, everybody, especially in the union world, they want authenticity. I remember you know getting. You know everybody, especially in the union world, they all want to check boxes. You know, yeah, yeah, they, yeah, so they, you know it's all ethnicities. You know we want non-binary people and I'm like what does a non-binary person sound?  23:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) like I don't, it took me you know.  23:29 - Billy (Host) Then I realized oh, they don't really, they're just checking off boxes, but for the, you know, for the African-American community, they were in vogue. They were, you know, I would get breakdowns, all ethnicities, and the prototypes would be Viola Davis, Tiffany Haddish and Angela.  23:49 Bassett, Do the math you know, so that was a thing. And Angela Bassett do the math. You know, so that was a thing. And I think you know, I still think that that is happening. But I'm finding a trend like that is kind of changing, where general market is truly general market. Now they want, you know, it's everybody, it's everything.  24:09 - Anne (Host) That's great. Yes, I love to hear that.  24:12 - Billy (Host) That's the way it should have been, but unfortunately it was so the other way for so long and then it shifted and now it's kind of evening out.  24:21 - Anne (Host) Sure.  24:21 - Billy (Host) Sure, I don't know.  24:23 - Anne (Host) Well, I mean, that's what I was thinking would happen at some point. Right, it would even out and it's kind of nice to hear that that's happening.  24:31 I mean, I wouldn't want it to go another extreme you know, at all, you know, and especially because the world's a little chaotic right now and I know that it's affecting companies and their advertising, and so that to me says gosh, I hope that there's still as much opportunity for everybody as there ever was. And so that's just one of those things where I think if there was a slow part of the season, maybe it's people, you know. I think there's companies trying to gauge like what's happening and what's going to be what's going to work for them in terms of advertising.  25:08 And it's not so much the voice, but the whole, the whole thing, yeah, the whole, all of it On camera, all of it, all of it. How are they going to advertise it to be effective?  25:18 - Billy (Host) And I think you know, and I think that and this is just me I feel like voice wise, I feel that the union world is more tries to check the boxes, much more than the non-union world.  25:32 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) I truly than the non-union world.  25:33 - Billy (Host) I truly believe the non-union world they're gonna pick the best voice for the job, no matter what ethnicity you are.  25:41 I find, and I just because of the actors that I speak with, not only because I speak with my non-union actors in general so much more, just simply because there's so much opportunity there. But I notice, with my union actors I just don't A I don't really have that many opportunities for them. But you know it is. I speak to certain ones more, a lot more than the others. But I don't find that, I find it much broader in the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the non-union world. I mean it's a different and I've learned so much about the, the non-union community and how. You know how different it is. I feel that it is much more I don't know how to say it. It's much more of a community, I feel.  26:27 I feel that they, they really are supportive of each other, they help each other. It's not as competitive or as petty competitive as it can sometimes be in the union world, it's just, and I think it's fabulous that they really everybody's out to help each other much more in that community.  26:52 - Anne (Host) Well, that's refreshing to hear. I like that from you, Absolutely. So then for you, for talent on your roster. What sort of qualities are you looking for in any talent that might appear on your roster? You know what's funny.  27:06 - Billy (Host) When I first started, you know, when COVID happened first thing, when I and I did a lot of these classes, first thing I was like, obviously the first thing was do you have SourceConnect? You know if?  27:17 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you have SourceConnect, because so few?  27:18 - Billy (Host) people did.  27:19 - Anne (Host) You went right to the top of my list.  27:22 - Billy (Host) Yeah, if you had SourceConnect, and then it's, you know, and then it's just about reading the copy, and that's the same basic thing is, how do you read copy? Some of my most successful people, my white actors over 40, I have a couple of them and they just read copy. So well, I don't know what it is, they just they're just, they're just great they were. And so, yeah, there's. You can't teach it, it's, you know, it's just natural. This one particular guy, yeah, does he have that Paul Rudd feel to him? Just that guy next door, just that real comfortable, relaxed, nothing pushed, that's how he is in life and that's how it comes across Right, right. Oh, there was something else.  28:06 Oh, I did this one class and there was this woman, you know, like late 20s white woman, and there was just something. I was on a panel, I was one of three people and, oh my God, she was. There was just something about her read that made me crazy and like the next day I was like I have, you know, I want to set you up. I love you, you know, I love you the best. And now, here we are. I love you, know, I love you the best, and now here we are, fast forward to probably a little more than a year. She is one of my most successful actresses on my roster. And what is it about her? I don't know. She's just fabulous. You know, she just, she just reads. It's just, it's honest.  28:50 - Anne (Host) So I'm always looking for that honest. I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like, with that honest, I like that honest, yeah, authentic, yeah. And I like how you know we've heard for for so long right, bring you to the party, bring you to the party, it's that. I think that's so important. And and we throw it around like, oh yeah, okay, I can bring me, but and yet so many people still try to perform, uh and and if they really can just stop in their own head and and just bring themselves to the party because, like you and I like talk like there's something about like I really like Billy, and it's, it's, it's like an intangible thing and it's your personality, right, it's, it's how we connect.  29:23 - Billy (Host) And I think that's what's so right away. The first time we met, we would just like exactly.  29:30 - Anne (Host) I think that's the same thing for voice actors. If you can, you know, if, if you've got a great personality and you're like one of those people that you can connect with right away, I mean that's what I think we're looking for, that authenticity it's you're not trying to, you know, push anything and and this is who you are and I love to hear that, because I keep telling people gosh, you are enough. I mean it really is. Please don't try to be anything other than yourself, because I really like you.  29:55 - Billy (Host) Yes, and so many voice actors. They forget that.  30:00 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) you know this is acting and I said you know you got to get out of your head into your gut.  30:05 - Billy (Host) Whether you're selling peas for 99 cents, it doesn't matter. You have to be, you know, honest and authentic with it, so important. Now I have to ask the question authentic with it, so important?  30:14 - Anne (Host) Now I have to ask the question because you know probably everybody does. And what do you think about the threat of AI in the industry, and especially now that there's? It's not even just voice, it's on camera too.  30:27 - Billy (Host) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, we keep our eye on it. We read every contract, we read every contract, we read every breakdown. You know SAG is doing their best. Bless their hearts.  30:42 You know, nava is you know, above and beyond, what they're doing with the rules and the legislation and what they're doing. You know it's coming, it's not going away and it's going to get better and better. So we just try to keep our eyes and ears on everything and try to follow the rules and say, nope, large deal right now. And there was a huge component with um. They wanted an AI replica and fortunately, the person um doing it was like no, I've heard replicas of my voice and they're not, and they never sound as good as the real thing.  31:27 - Anne (Host) Um, so that's a really interesting point because I know for a fact that that's true, because I, you know back in the day. Well, back a few years ago, I started really delving deep into that and researching companies and how they made voices, and I've heard a lot of voices and there are some people who are amazing actors but yet their voice doesn't translate. Well, either it's the AI technology that has not given, it's just it's not doing the right thing for them and, yeah, it doesn't translate.  31:56 - Billy (Host) Yeah, and he said no, I, I will not. It's my, it's my voice, it's my reputation, and I will be available whenever they need me. They were like well, what in case he's what? You know? What if he's away on vacation?  32:08 - Anne (Host) Yeah, he said there are no VO emergencies. No, there are no VO emergencies, Right, there's no VO emergencies.  32:15 - Billy (Host) So yeah, so are we concerned about it? Yeah, am I concerned, absolutely, but you know I can't lose sleep over it.  32:23 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) It's coming.  32:24 - Billy (Host) You know, it's coming, and so we just have to manage it and make it work to our advantage.  32:30 - Anne (Host) Yes, I agree, I agree, I and make it work to our advantage. Yes, I agree, I agree, I love that. So I'm very excited because you're going to be doing a class for us, a VO Boss workshop, in November. As a matter of fact, it's going to be November 12th. Can you tell us a little bit about what we're going to be doing in that class?  32:48 - Billy (Host) Well, what I usually do is I like to just kind of give my spiel about what I've been doing and I guess the do's and don'ts of the proper way to get in touch with an agent, what to expect, what not to expect from you know. Once you're submitting to an agent, I just try to, I try to just say the things you know, kind of give the tips that actors need to know. You know what's proper, what's not, what's gonna get you. You know what's gonna get you seen, what's gonna get you heard. You know what makes it easy for me, the agent.  33:24 And I've come to also realize that it works differently from agency to agency. So I can only speak to what works for me, um, at CESD, um, but we'll, you know, I'll talk about that and I'll just talk about my feelings on on what it takes, what tools you're going to need and I mean like literal tools, what kind of demos you're going to need, that sort of stuff. Do a little Q and a and then read some copy, you know and anybody that does come to the class.  33:54 um, it's gotta be commercial copy, because that's that's what I do, you know um. I, I'm, I'm not going to be able to judge you on your animation copy or you know that kind of stuff. That's not really what I do. So we'll, you know, we'll do that and we'll tear it apart and hopefully get to two pieces within the class.  34:14 - Anne (Host) Yeah, I love that. We'll see. Yay, well, I'm very excited for that and, bosses, I'll be putting a link so that you can sign up for it, because I'm quite sure it's going to go quickly. Now my last question is because you said you're in upstate New York and I, you know, I have my own, like my own, nostalgic memories of upstate New York, and so, for me, I'd be riding a horse, you know, in in the countryside. So if you weren't an agent, philly, what would you be doing right now? Oh God, would you have a different career? Would you be retired and riding horses, or?  34:49 - Billy (Host) Yeah, well, you know, I've only had three different jobs in my life, okay, well, you know, other than high school jobs. I was an actor slash waiter, and then I became an agent. You know Like I've been it's you know. So I moved to New York to be an actor and that didn't happen, but I always kind of I was. I had a friend who was a commercial casting director and so I used to go in and help him out at the casting calls.  35:20 That was back in the days of Polaroids and signing up and I really was fascinated by it. And he would you know. And he kept saying there's an opening at this agency. Do you want to go? And I would go and audition, you know, to be an assistant. Sure, and then boom, boom, boom.  35:35 And then, it just so happens, he said CED, because we weren't CESD at that point it was looking to expand the voiceover department and was I interested, and my partner at the time said go and audition. I mean go and audition, apply for the job, cause one of these days you will make more money than me. And so you know. And um and so um, and now, every year, every year. I'm still in touch with him and I call him and I say thank you, greggy, for allowing me to have this job.  36:08 - Anne (Host) Here's my annual income report allowing me to have this job.  36:11 - Billy (Host) Here's my annual income report yes, so anyway, yeah. So I've thought about this. What do I do? I'm too old to be a waiter.  36:23 - Anne (Host) I'm not going to go back, though I think I would be really good at it.  36:25 - Billy (Host) I have these- I agree, actually, you've got the social I think I could do. Yeah, so do I go. But when I retire, whenever that is, I want to social. I think I could do. Yeah, you know, so do I go. But you know, when I retire, you know, whenever that is, I'm on a travel. I just love to travel, that's, that's my thing. So you know. You know, I feel like when this is behind me, that I will, you know, I'll just travel. I'm not going to be on a horse up here, but I always had.  36:50 You know, sometimes I've had, you know, I don't know if I even want another. You know job and I'm at that point now where you know, I'm old and I don't want another career. It's not like I'm. You know, I'm going to be an artist, or you know, I once thought I thought well, maybe I'll just go do community theater somewhere.  37:07 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I have a friend.  37:08 - Billy (Host) I have a friend, interestingly enough, a little older than I am, lives in Chicago and he started taking an acting class just for the hell of it.  37:16 - Anne (Host) For the hell of it.  37:17 - Billy (Host) And he said, the others they love it because they have somebody to play the old man in all those scenes. And I thought, oh my God, that's great, I could do that. Yeah, I love that. I thought yeah, why not community theater you? Know, if that was it. Now there's no community theater in New York City, so if that's where I retire, you know. But if I was to retire up here, you know that would interest me, and you know because I am a lover of theater, so I do.  37:46 - Anne (Host) Yeah, Well, I feel like you kept yourself in the acting world, you know by being an agent I mean in that you know, it's still like a. It's still you're very much immersed in it, and so I feel like, if that was your one love, you came to New York, by the way. Where did you come from?  38:02 - Billy (Host) I grew up in Waltham Massachusetts, oh okay. Okay yeah, just a little outside of. Boston.  38:07 - Anne (Host) Yeah, very familiar with it. I went.  38:09 - Billy (Host) Yeah, I grew up in Waltham and then I went to UMass, Amherst and then to New York.  38:14 - Anne (Host) That was my. Oh, fantastic, yeah, there you go. Well, my gosh, it has been such a pleasure chatting with you today. I mean, I could go on. I feel like we could go on, but at some point, I do have to quit at some point.  38:32 But yeah, thank you so so much for sharing your wisdom. It's been really a joy talking with you. I'm so excited for November. Guys, bosses, remember November 12th. Get yourself to vobosscom and sign up to work with this gentleman. He's amazing, and I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like bosses like Billy and myself, and find out more at IPDTLcom. Guys, have an amazing week and I'll see you next week. Bye, bye.  39:05 - Speaker 3 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

The sensible and lovely Danielle Famble joins BOSS Anne Ganguzza to discuss a critical, often-overlooked aspect of running a voiceover business: disaster preparedness and maintaining operations during times of crisis. Using Danielle's personal experience of a sudden apartment flood, the hosts outline the necessary steps for every voice actor to ensure both physical and financial resilience.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by her superpower co-host, Lau Lapides, to discuss a critical issue in the voiceover industry: brand alignment and navigating controversy. Sparked by the American Eagle/Sydney Sweeney campaign, the hosts explore how a voice actor's ethics and personal brand are intrinsically linked to the clients they represent. They emphasize that in the age of social media, protecting your digital reputation is non-negotiable for long-term career success. 00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey bosses, Anne Ganguzza, you know your journey in voiceover is not just about landing gigs. It's about growing both personally and professionally. At Anne Ganguzza Voice Productions, I focus on coaching and demo production that nurtures your voice and your confidence. Let's grow together. Visit anneganguzza.com to find out more.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Ganguzza.  00:47 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, Welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Boss Superpower Series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, along with my awesome superpower co-host Lollapetas.  00:56 - Lau (Guest) Hello, Annie, it's so good to be back. I love being in this Zoom room with you. Or it's not Zoom, but it's Riverside, but I love being in this space room with you. Or it's not Zoom, but it's Riverside, but I love being in this space with you, I know I look forward to it.  01:10 - Anne (Host) We get to see each other and it's been so long it's fabulous when we get back together because we have so much to catch up on. I know, I know oh my gosh.  01:19 - Lau (Guest) By the way, I love your outfit today. You look great.  01:23 - Anne (Host) Why thank you my, my jean shirt or my denim shirt? No, what's really cool about this is this is kind of well, I should say it's it's. It's deceiving, maybe because it looks like it's denim but it's actually like French Terry, and so it's super, super comfortable. But you know, speaking of jeans, I was going to say what color are your jeans.  01:50 Well, you know, I have good jeans and advertising campaigns for our businesses. I mean gosh, it's all over the news. I mean the American Eagle campaign with Sydney Sweeney. I mean, you know, she's got good jeans, and so it's a really interesting debate. I think it's something that we could absolutely relate to our own voiceover businesses in terms of associating with now, first of all, like associating with a brand that may or may not be controversial or may or may not be on the side of you know where your feelings align. I think that would be a really, really interesting topic.  02:30 - Lau (Guest) Lau I love that topic because we hear that word floating in the industry now for quite a while branding. Branding is connected to marketing, is connected to selling right and how you represent yourself and who you're connected to. That helps you represent yourself as well. And making some of those concerted decisions on who you want to be attached to and connected to, that really help you design your ethos of your business.  02:58 - Anne (Host) Well, they can help you. They can help you be successful in the industry, or maybe not. They can help you be controversial in the industry, or maybe not. They can help you be controversial in the industry. It's such an interesting. Now you know one thing about that campaign for me, when I first saw it, I didn't think anything of it, because I am a woman of a certain age and I remember the Jean campaign with Brooke Shields and Calvin Klein, and I just remember it, with Brooke Shields and Calvin Klein, and I just remember it, you know. And so, as a girl in, I think it was in elementary or high school. I can't remember when that came out, but it was the 80s, right? All I know is that I wanted a pair of Calvin Klein jeans because I wanted to look like Brooke Shields. Now today, didn't we all did not we Right?  03:41 No, I thought nothing of it, right, I thought nothing really horrible of it. But then it did become controversial because obviously she was, you know, she was young when she did that ad and it was a little bit sexually, you know, promiscuous, some people would say. And so, you know, today that type of advertising wouldn't fly and I think people are comparing Sydney Sweeney with that, because of she's got good genes, you've got an attractive female and a pair of jeans, and you know, of course, american Eagle says you know, it was always all about the genes, it's not always not about the, not about the misconception that jeans J-E-A-N-S is similar to G-E-N-E-S, so there's a lot to unpack there.  04:25 I don't know how did you react to it when it first came out? What were your thoughts?  04:29 - Lau (Guest) Well, you know what's so funny about the Brooke Shields thing that you bring up? That's the first thing I thought of is that everyone who's outraged about it is not old enough to remember the Brooke Shields and that's what they were really copying. I think that was a copycat from 45 years ago Going back to the old let's sell.  04:45 Yeah, but if you remember, annie, it was there was another controversy hooked on to Brooke Shields at that time, based on that commercial, because that was right around the time that she had shot Blue Lagoon, blue Lagoon, yeah, and she was only like 11, 11 or 12.  05:05 - Anne (Host) I think it was 13.  05:05 - Lau (Guest) Well, by that time she was about 13. But she was still very young and the mother was managing her and so there was a huge blowup and controversy about this young girl doing these so-called sexually explicit commercials about my sexuality and my body, about my sexuality and my body. And I remember thinking, and when I saw it again I thought wow, how did she get those jeans on without showing us anything, right in front of us, Like I was amazed and, as a young girl, I yeah, it was a Cirque du Soleil act.  05:35 It was amazing. Yeah, you know, as a young girl, media is so influential right.  05:41 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) So, influential.  05:41 - Anne (Host) The thing is that, as voice actors, we really have a part in playing into the media, right, because our voices are representing brands, and for me at the time, I didn't consider anything wrong with it. All I know is that I wanted to look like Brooke Shields in those jeans and therefore I wanted the jeans. And I'll tell you what it was an expressly popular campaign that made Calvin Klein a ton of money, a ton of money.  06:09 - Lau (Guest) But if you look at it now as an adult and you listen from a voiceover perspective, her voice was very, very young very kidlike and very straightforward. She was trying to be, if anything, a little bit smart or intellectual versus overly sexy and centralized, but yet the perception, the visual right Was that was that.  06:34 - Anne (Host) That's exactly it. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of things there, and if you were the voice of a campaign that was controversial, right would. If it was something you believed in or didn't believe in, is that something that, as a voice actor, would you accept? And I think, or an actor, I mean any kind of role right? Do you accept those roles if they align with your belief system or your morals or your ethics or whatever that is, and how can it propel your business forward or not?  07:07 I mean, there's just so much that we have choices in, and as well as influence in, as voice actors, and we think sometimes we're hiding behind this microphone, but no, we're still a very intricate part of a media campaign. And so, really, as a voice actor, how do you decide? Really, is you know, oh, this could really propel my campaign if I decide that I want to align with this brand and be the voice of it, or sometimes it's not even about being the voice of it. It's maybe working with that brand in any capacity. You know, how is that going to affect your business? Because people have opinions, people always have opinions, and gosh aren't they all over the place.  07:56 - Lau (Guest) Now that social media is prevalent, they're the Wild West we like to call it right, Annie, it's the Wild West.  07:59 And I would say in my mind it's likened to all the people, not just women but men too. In my mind it's likened to all the people, not just women but men too, but certainly all the women, who have said for many years you know, I am interested in doing romance novels, exotica work, triple X, adult swim as a voiceover talent, but I'm concerned about how my business is going to be viewed. I'm going to use an AKA, an alter ego, another name, another business name, and so I think that voiceover talent have been making these decisions for a very, very long time. Even though we don't have the visuals for the voiceover talent, we may have the visual for the work and so for the work itself may give visuals and vocals that are not aligned with the talent's vision of their business, and sometimes you don't even know.  08:49 - Anne (Host) Sometimes you don't even know, right. I mean you can tell a lot by the context of the script sometimes, but sometimes you can. You don't know where that's going to end up. And again, now that makes me think of, like, you know deep fakes and AI and you don't know where your voice is going to be used. But if you are, you know, an active participant and you are aware, I think really the best thing you can do if these things are concerning to you, right, the more you know, the more you're educated, the better off you're going to be, because you can make those decisions to determine if you want to be aligned.  09:24 I mean there have been careers ruined by, you know, wrong brand alignment, and gosh knows with today's you know political climate. I mean it comes down to and you know what, laura, it comes down to if you think about it. We're in a business. We need to make money, right, and guess what? So are companies that are advertising, right. They're in the business to make money and so a lot of times our decisions are based on money. Yeah.  09:52 - Lau (Guest) Wake up, smell the coffee right, and it's like who is to judge what one person or one brand identity or one company should or shouldn't be doing. It's really in the eyes and ears of the audience. It's really the perception. So, as many people really disagree, fervently disagree and are angered and outraged by that particular American Eagle campaign, you have a mass swath of people who are buying everything.  10:24 - Anne (Host) That gene that she is, they can't keep. I'm just saying or buying everything that gene, that gene that they can't keep it on the proverbial shelf Exactly.  10:29 Right, Exactly so yeah, and it's interesting because I read a couple of. I read a couple of articles about it and they, of course, american Eagle says it's all about the genes. It's always been about the genes and in reality it kind of is like a return back to marketing. You know, marketing for the last few years has been very concerned with, of course, the shift, notice how the shift in cultural trends, right to making sure inclusivity, diversity, you know, every body type is shown and everybody is represented, which I thought was great. I mean I love that. But apparently, like, if you're in the business, I mean, did it sell? I thought it did.  11:09 Personally, I aligned with it better and I bought, I consumed, just like I did before. However, there is a a huge, there's a huge another aspect to this to unpack, about influencers, right, I mean, in reality, I mean she's a famous actress, right, and so just like Brooke Shields. So if she's going to wear these jeans and feel good in them and look good in them, then that's going to really entice other people to buy and you know, or not, right? And If they, I mean how many times? Lau and I I have very strong ideas about like companies and what they do with their money. So like if they're known to, you know, I don't know, do bad things. I will not support of things that companies do behind the scenes and therefore, when I do find out, I then have a choice, to make a decision whether I want to consume that, you know, buy that or not. And I think that, again, as a consumer and as a voice actor, the more educated we can be, the better decisions we can make to determine if we want to align with that.  12:21 - Lau (Guest) I would totally agree and I would say the irony to me about talking about influencers online is why are they called influencers? Yeah, yeah, they're called influences because they have powerful influence over mass swaths of people who want to look like them, sound like them, live like them, whatever. Of people who want to look like them, sound like them, live like them, whatever. So if we were to make a value judgment, we would have to make it evenly across the board between network television and social media and voiceover and radio and TV, that that is just a no-go, which, of course, no one's going to do. We're not going to do that because you know it's a free country and people are going to run their businesses how they run their businesses girls on Instagram to get that facelift or to get those eyebrows or to get those lash extensions, to feel good about who they are.  13:27 - Anne (Host) Well, oh no, okay, you bring up a really important point here, right To feel good about who you are. So what I do because you know I do a little bit of fashion influencing- I know you are an influencer, actually.  13:39 - Lau (Guest) My well, oh my goodness, put your influencer hat on.  13:42 - Anne (Host) So my influencer hat is and I've been, I've been multiple sizes, I've been big and I've been small, right, I mean, I don't know, I've never considered myself small, but that's a whole nother podcast. So, depending on the size right, I followed different influencers. I found and for the most part, if you think about it, when I was a little bit bigger, I had an influencer who I loved her because she was bigger and she was confident and she was beautiful. And I said, gosh, if I could just be confident. And you know, and as a matter of fact, people in my life I've known, I'm like gosh, she's bigger and she's confident. I wish I could be confident like that. I could be confident like that. And then when I, when I started to lose weight, then I it's funny because I switched, following the one influencer who her body type was a little bit bigger, to an influence it was a little bit more my, my body type size, or maybe even smaller, because it was then helpful, it was motivating for me, or inspiring to me.  14:36 And so, in reality and in every instance, right, the influencer made me feel better about myself. Right, I was either motivated or inspired. To well, people are going to say it might be healthy if you say, oh, I want to look like them. But in reality, when it came to my weight, my body size, it was more about becoming healthy. I needed to become healthy, right. And yeah, the clothes were pretty. I didn't have that option with these clothes at this particular size. So, yeah, there was something inspirational and motivational. And then there was the girl who I still follow. She's a bigger girl who is just beautiful at whatever size she's at, and it's really the message that she's saying. That's really the most important thing.  15:17 - Lau (Guest) But I have a question about that, annie, and I know we're getting a little farther away from the voiceover aspect, but from a performance and business aspect, voiceovers need to be thinking about all of this and how you represent your brand and how you think about what you do. Well, absolutely, my question is you have a lot of these people, including, like Lizzo, for instance she was the first one that came to my mind, yeah who made it very public that they lost a ton of weight and that they are very happy they did that and very happy that they're healthier and very happy at whatever they're at.  15:51 - Anne (Host) Yeah.  15:52 - Lau (Guest) So it makes you question well, wait a second, is this for branding sake, to have those brands out there because they know, like a big part of the population is, say, has a certain look or a certain size or a certain sound? Well, yeah, the biggest demographic, the biggest demographic, right? Yeah, versus the reality of the person actually feeling good in their life, I'm going to argue that they're performers and they're performing and that many of them don't feel good about some of the choices they've made in their life and therefore they go and change it. Or their company representatives say you need to change this brand because it is not resonating with the majority of our audiences and we will never know.  16:38 Never know how much influence comes from which direction. We will really not know, that right.  16:44 - Anne (Host) Absolutely. I mean and again this is I mean for bosses out there if you think we're going off topic, in reality we're not, because we're not talking about marketing and advertising, which directly affects us. I mean, that's where we I mean our voices are representing brands that have fluctuations in the way that they advertise and in the way that they market their products, and it's important for us to understand where it's headed, where the trends are and really what is it that matters. And then, what is it that matters to you as an actor, being a part of that campaign, resonating with a brand that may or may not be controversial? Right, Brands change.  17:26 - Lau (Guest) This is where you have to forgive yourself they shift and change trends over time, because that's the natural state of being a human being, is that you age, you change, trends change whatever. Another one that comes to my mind one of my favorite original rappers and then became actress was Queen Latifah. Yeah, yeah. Who I loved for so many reasons. Yeah she's awesome Right.  17:50 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Rubenesque woman beautiful woman.  17:52 - Lau (Guest) Well, she went on a whole campaign I can't remember what it was, whether it was Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem or whatever it was, but she became the brand ambassador of them to lose weight and she had trouble doing it and she never reached the target weight. When she didn't, they dropped her. Yeah, yeah, okay. So my point is was that her and it made you feel like, it made me feel like you know, when you use Tide or use a laundry detergent and then, all of a sudden, you've been using it and it's been good for years, and then it's like no, all new developed. You think, what have I been using that whole time? It wasn't really good. That's how it made me feel.  18:31 - Anne (Host) Well influencing you know and marketing advertising, influencing in their way influencing right as opposed to, and I think that's why influencers became really popular, because it was real people, it wasn't companies. Well, it was the illusion of real people, right?  18:47 Well, they are real people Right right, oh look, I'm not being paid for this but a lot of times, influencers, they get a little bit of a cut. I mean I, you know, hey, I got a little bit of a cut. I'm encouraged to, you know, try this top or this, you know, this pants set or whatever, and then talk about it so that I can get a little bit of a break or a deal. But I creatively love to curate outfits and, to be quite honest, the amount of time I spend at this point because I don't do it full time the amount of time that I spend, you know, putting together videos and stuff, it takes a lot of time. That's my, that's like a, that's a day of my weekend in reality, and I don't make I don't make half as much money as I do when I'm doing voiceover. So for me that's just like a passion project.  19:31 But what is it that voice actors you know need to do? I mean, I think that you either don't realize that you are an intrinsic part of a brand that could or could not be, you know, I mean, you probably know if they're controversial. It's the same thing with political voiceover, Right, we talked about this like not so long ago. What's you know? Are you on a particular side of the fence? Are you? Is your voice, your voice being speaking things that align with your, what you believe in and your morals and your ethics? Or are you just voicing things to make money, because it happens to be something that pays the bills?  20:09 - Lau (Guest) Right and really paying attention to what your audience is identifying your value as. Like I can come in and say, well, I'm going to provide this, I'm going to do this, but I may not have the calling for that. I have to pay attention. Where is the calling of the audience?  20:27 And then go to the. If I want to go to the full extent of that brand, give them awareness of what it is, awareness of my, you know, professionalism, my ethos in it. Whatever that is, it's not always what I'm starting out to be is what it's going to be. I see that all the time like a mismatch of brand knowledge. Someone would say, well, I do this all the time, I play this all the time and I say, right, but what are you being hired for? What you're being hired for might be very different than what you do in your side life.  21:01 - Anne (Host) And if you think about it, like if you align yourself with a style of voiceover that is, you know, has a message, right, that may or it on levels with brands that I've been associated with, where, if you're not careful and you know I mean with the VO Boss podcast, right, if you're not careful people will associate you with those brands as well, and you know that can be detrimental to your career, to your livelihood, and that is something it's sometimes. It's not an easy decision. It's not an easy decision to make. It's not an easy decision.  21:42 - Lau (Guest) It's not an easy decision to make. It's not an easy decision. You have to realize you're performing a part. So whenever you are in that what I call the awareness zone that's like the industry awareness of who you are Like I feel like I play two parts. One is the real person in the larger world, who may or may not know me, and then the person, the mama, who knows me, who people know me in the larger world, who may or may not know me, and then the person, the mama, who knows me, who people know me in the industry. And when I play that role, I know I'm always to some degree on, you're always on and having that awareness that there is a performance value to what you do. How?  22:15 - Anne (Host) interesting because your brand, since I've known you, has evolved into Mama Lau, which you know what I mean. Because I want to say it's because I started calling you Mama Lau, because that's what I called my mother, and then it turned into Mama Lau, but now as Mama Lau, known as Mama Lau in the industry. Right, you now need to be considerate of. Okay, what does this brand speak about me? And if you were to do something, that would not be Mama Lau.  22:42 - Lau (Guest) Right, so I'm not going to go to Vegas and become a stripper anytime soon. Are you going to?  22:47 - Anne (Host) be an erotic. I mean, would you be an erotica audiobook narrator? I mean, well, maybe not under Mama Lau but, here, you are here you are with. Unless you're going to be a character voice, right, here you are, I know your voice. And unless you're going to be a character voice and I don't recognize that voice, right, our voices are recognizable.  23:07 I mean, some of us have immediately, like I know, this person's voice from you know long you know, far, far away, I can tell that voice and I have that with some of my students that have distinctly unique voices, right, I'm thinking they probably can't go into you know erotica character work if they don't want to know other people to know about it. Yes, you know, if you want other people to know about it, that's fine. But for you, under that brand, you have to. There's a responsibility to that brand, right?  23:34 - Lau (Guest) Yes, there is.  23:34 - Anne (Host) In what you do. It reminds me of. It reminds me of oh my gosh, who was it? Who was it? He was a comedian. He was fired in 2011 due to offensive tweets he made about the Japan earthquake and the tsunami. And it is, oh my gosh, gilbert Gottfried. There you go.  23:50 - Lau (Guest) Oh wow, how could we not?  23:52 - Anne (Host) remember that, yes. I know right Gilbert Gottfried.  23:55 - Lau (Guest) I didn't know that.  23:56 - Anne (Host) Yeah, oh yeah, and it was. It was. That was, I think, when it first, at least when I was in the industry, when it first became evident that social media and what you do outside of your job in voice acting, will have a direct effect, if it's offensive enough, right On your job. And you know, nowadays people have to be careful on social media what they're posting. And because companies can now go check out your social media, because companies can now go check out your social media, and so for you as a voice actor, again, it has to come to mind that if you are known, or if you are known in social media, now your actions, if people were to look you up on social media and find that you're associated with a brand or find that you are, you've done something that I don't know is not something that aligns with their ethics right, it can affect your business.  24:52 - Lau (Guest) So in a way, annie, it's kind of like we're blurring the lines of our real reality of living a life as a person, with our business and our performance career, that there is kind of that expectation that you sort of represent it all of your life, all of your life, and you're not going to go through anything. That's antithetical to that image that is being put out there, which I mean. For me it's easy because I'm kind of like, I'm a mama type anyway, but for the average person I think that would be hard, that would be a challenge.  25:27 Mama Lau as mama Lau would not go to a Coldplay concert and get yourself caught on the probably not. I'd be the person standing outside with food, waving my hand, going what did you do in there? What did you do?  25:37 - Anne (Host) And we should bring that up, because yet there's another like CEO of you know, of a company, and then the director of HR, the director of the people I forget what they call it now. I'm like director of HR, no people, ceo of people. Forgive me for not knowing what her title was. She was HR, wasn't she?  25:55 - Lau (Guest) The head of HR. Yes, Like top HR, you know? Executive.  26:00 - Anne (Host) I think PMO is a people. I forget what it is, but anyways, see it, you know. So, really, if you think about it, what did that do those actions do to the brand? Right To the brand. Yes, they say all all, what is it? All publicity is good publicity, but do you think that this was good publicity for the company?  26:24 - Lau (Guest) No, no, I don't either. I don't think there was any redeeming value to that and that felt to me it could have been happenstance, but it felt like a setup. It felt like someone tipped someone off to put them on the jumbotron.  26:37 - Anne (Host) Oh interesting, I didn't think that it didn't just feel random.  26:40 - Lau (Guest) There was like, like, how many people were there?  26:44 - Anne (Host) 50,000? I don't know. I think I, I didn't think it, I don't think they were set up, I mean, unless you have somebody in the company that's like. Well, I mean, first of all you have to, you have to know the person that's, you know, focusing on the Jumbotron and say, oh my God, wouldn't it be funny if you know I hate that guy or whatever? But think about it?  27:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) I don't know.  27:02 - Anne (Host) Your actions in life right can be directly affected these days because of social media, because of the now back in the day when I had to walk to school 10 miles up a hill in the snow. When there wasn't social media, it was a little easier to get away with, I would say, indiscretions like that.  27:24 - Lau (Guest) But now, maybe even now with being a voiceover talent. You've got that anonymity to some degree.  27:31 - Anne (Host) But not as much anymore. I'm saying not as much anymore, remember, because voice actors, we're all about social media, aren't we? Because, guess what we need to get work and what are we doing? We're trying to showcase're all about social media, aren't we? Because guess what we need to get work and what are we doing? We're trying to showcase our brand on social media, and when you do that, you really have to be prepared for repercussions. If you are going to voice a campaign, associate yourself with a brand that may be controversial, and you know something that is a concern for your business. That may not have been so much of a concern maybe 20, 30 years ago.  28:06 - Lau (Guest) It's true, because I think with probably the third generation now, or what would we say, maybe the second generation now, millennials and Gen Zers, who are digital natives, growing, up online on social media like their life online on social media like they didn't see the commercial.  28:23 Their life- is on social media. So their lines are very blurred, like I would say, arguably our generation x not as blurred like I know. When I was younger I used to think, oh, the Brady kids are really like that. Now I realize they're separate people, right, they're separate people than what they did in the sitcom. But nowadays it's like oh, everyone thinks that anything you do online is you, is really you, and so it puts a lot of pressure on those people to say okay, am I in alignment with the kind of brand that I want to have out there or not?  29:02 And a lot of people will say well, you know what do they say? All good, all press, bad press, negative press is still good, press, it's still good. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I don't think that's true. Yeah, I don't think that's true.  29:15 - Anne (Host) I mean in a way. I mean in a way who said?  29:19 - Lau (Guest) that. Beyonce, who said that Someone big said that I don't even remember, but in a way, american Eagle is benefiting from the controversy.  29:27 - Anne (Host) However, there's really good arguments on either side of it. Again, they're promoting to a crowd you know who are their best sellers. Do you know what I mean? Because, as I and you also talked about in the beginning, we have a certain familiarness with advertising from 30 years ago, right 40 years ago, and so for us, maybe that ad was like oh okay, I didn't think anything of it, but then all of a sudden, because of the younger generation, right, who are like hey, what is this? Or you know, or why, especially with political things going on, what do you mean? Genes like G-E-N-E-S Is that? Then it became a political thing. So I think that we have to be really, really careful, as voice actors on social media, to make sure that we're aware, be aware, educate yourself and be aware of what your voice, what your presence, what your social presence means to your business.  30:33 - Lau (Guest) And I also would add on to that, annie, that we just had a discussion because my group was in New York showcasing of actors and I was really tough, talk about mama, tough. I was really tough and saying listen, I'm just going to tell you this right now If you don't go into your social media right now, before you audition for those agents, those casting directors, those producers, and clean it up and scrub your stuff, scrub it.  30:57 Get reputation defenders. Do whatever you need to do to scrub it. Keep your ideas and ideals separate, because you don't want to alienate people and their whole audience before you even meet them and audition for them, do you? I mean, do you to be a really good note to leave on Digital Digital?  31:25 - Anne (Host) We are digital. We are digital.  31:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Your footprint's there.  31:28 - Anne (Host) Digital is traceable, just saying Digital is traceable, you are. Have you ever tried to? And again, we've never really covered this in depth, but if you think about it, if you ever tried to make a comment and then delete it and then it didn't really delete or did, how many people took a screenshot of that? Yeah, you know, before you deleted it.  31:48 So again, things are digital and things, and because we've gotten again on your phone, on your computer, just assume that people are tracing and I know, yes, you can get it's not right and I get that, but just assume and just you know, honestly, just be aware, be aware and protect your business, protect your voice, protect your business and protect your bossness. Guys, be a bossness.  32:16 - Lau (Guest) And I'll leave on this note in saying yes, and I'll piggyback by saying, even just for who you are as a person, be happy and content with the brand you're creating. Because, you're going to have to live with that for a long time. As long as you have your business, you'll have to live with it.  32:34 - Anne (Host) I have people.  32:35 - Lau (Guest) Annie when I go to a conference or something screaming across the room hey mama, how are you? If I didn't like that, I didn't want that, I'd have to change it. I'd have to really change it and make a concerted effort to do that so be happy with what you're selecting and what you're choosing and what your audience is giving to you and, if not, strategize elsewhere, redirect it.  32:59 - Anne (Host) Good stuff, good stuff, amazing Bosses. We would love to hear your thoughts honestly. So you know, write us at theboss, annaviobosscom. We'd love to hear from you right in our community Facebook page. We'd love to hear your thoughts on this. So, Lau, it's been amazing, amazing, as always. Big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can connect and network like bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Bosses have an amazing week and we'll see you next week.  33:30 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye, see you next time. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.     

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Tom Dheere to discuss a foundational topic for every voiceover career: coaching. The hosts assert that every voice actor, from beginner to veteran, needs a coach. The Bosses explore why continuous learning is a necessity in today's saturated market, how to avoid being overwhelmed by industry information, and the combined importance of mastering both performance and business skills.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey Boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a Boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:44 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Bosses series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm delighted to be here with Mr Tom Dheere. Yay, yay, hello Anne, hi Tom, yes, guess what, tom, it's that time of year again.  01:01 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It is you?  01:01 - Anne (Host) know when everybody's going back to school.  01:05 - Tom (Guest) Back to school. Oh yeah, I already bought my trapper keeper.  01:09 - Anne (Host) Oh my gosh, I used to love those. You know that was one of my favorite things about going back to school is buying office supplies and getting ready, and I was one of those rare. I don't know, tom, if you were one of those students, but I loved school. Love, tom, if you were one of those students, but I loved school. Love, love, love school. And it was always exciting to me to, number one, go back for the social component of things and then to go back and like I don't know. I always wanted to like advance in my subjects, and so I was always excited about learning.  01:37 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, me too. I do love school supplies, like if anyone who knows me as just me, or me as the vo strategist like?  01:47 - Anne (Host) of course he loves school supplies right, you know, sharpened pencils and rulers and everything being organized, paper clips and clothes, clothes, my new school clothes.  01:54 - Tom (Guest) You know, hey, oh, love the school clothes. Gotta get the new school clothes.  01:58 - Anne (Host) Well then, speaking of school, you know. I mean maybe it's time that we have a chat about coaching, coaching in this industry. And does it matter, tom, does it? There's so much information out there. Does it matter? Is it beneficial?  02:15 - Tom (Guest) let's, let's, let's chat about that well, one at first. It's funny that we actually haven't talked about this in the few years that we've done the real bosses podcast and two. You know there's an old saying which is never ask an encyclopedia salesman if you need an encyclopedia.  02:28 - Anne (Host) Yes, exactly so you asking?  02:29 - Tom (Guest) me a voiceover coach. If voice actors need voiceover coaching, we'll say well, of course, the answer is yes.  02:34 - Anne (Host) I know and for me to say do we need coaching? As a coach and demo producer.  02:45 - Tom (Guest) Of course. Of course we're gonna say so. Yes, full disclosure. Of course, we as coaches, yes. But here's the thing about it is that I know ann does not accept everybody that that wants to work with her, and I know that not. I don't accept everybody that wants to work with me for all kind, for all kinds of uh, all kinds of reasons. But every voice, regardless of where they are in their journey, needs coaching. You always need to be learning. The greatest baseball players and musicians everyone has a coach. Tiger Woods has a swing coach. Aaron Judge has a baseball bat swing coach as opposed to a golf swing coach. All the greatest artists and athletes have coaching. Do they know more than most? Can they do it better than most? Of course, that's why they are in the positions that they are in doing what they're doing, making what they're making, being as famous as they are, but it's a constant, constant sort of you know all the arts. There needs to be a constant level of education re-education, continuous learning, as they say, absolutely.  03:49 - Anne (Host) And if you're just starting out in the industry, you have to have a fundamental base. And there is, you know, hey, I am the biggest you know. And Google and gangoozle, and gangoozle, and gangoozle, whatever, I am the biggest lover of you know. Search the internet, find the answers. Because I mean, gosh, back in the day, you remember when we used to have to do research, we'd have to actually go to the library and then you would write, like I'd have to write notes for my term paper on like, on like index cards.  04:17 - Tom (Guest) What is this library? What is?  04:19 - Anne (Host) this library. What is this library? Well, our, I mean the library is at our fingertips and so we can. I mean, there's so much out there and, tom, both you and I put out a lot of content in regards to this industry and you know the business of the industry and performance. I give out performance tips and so I think a lot of times when you're first starting out, it can be really overwhelming, and so having a source, a coach, to go to, to kind of make it less overwhelming, can be an actual advantage as well.  04:52 As for me, what was I saying the other day? Oh, in my Pilates class I was like, yeah, I pay to go to this Pilates class so I can do the stretching on the foam roller that I have here at home and I just don't do Right, so I go and use the foam roller that's at the Pilates studio. But there's something to be said in being in a classroom and and actually saying I am dedicating this time for me to learn something or to, you know, to, to, to grow myself, and coaching is a big part of that grow myself, and coaching is a big part of that.  05:30 - Tom (Guest) I agree, the ability to take time and money to commit to a process that you know in. To a certain degree, you could do some of it on your own, but a lot of people most people, I would say like the reason why I have so many mentorship students that I have is that they're like I just need you.  05:48 I just need to have someone to talk to once a month, bounce ideas off of and hold me accountable for it and when you have, and I love accountability and I love stand up groups and meet up groups, but when they actually have to fork money over to me to basically be a paid accountability buddy, there's something to that, something to that I mean. And also, you know, when you're in an accountability buddy group with an accountability buddy or a mastermind group or standup group, that's all great, but most of them are peers.  06:19 Yes, absolutely With the same level of experience and knowledge as you as opposed to working with you or me or another coach who is just have you know, scads of knowledge and experience and the ability to disseminate that knowledge effectively. And also, I know you and I know you keep up with industry trends on a performance and technology and business and marketing level. So do I. We have to do that to be relevant and effective. We have our means. We read the same blogs and watch the same podcasts as everybody else, but I'm sure I know I have my own little secret methods of how I'm keeping up with things, and I'm sure you do too that we're able to aggregate and have, in a concise Anne, to say this is what's going on in the industry, this is how it applies to you. These are the decisions that you could make based on who you are, your talent level, your experience level, the time you have, the money you have that could get you where you want to go.  07:15 - Anne (Host) Well, and the accountability it doesn't just stop with the student. I mean, the coach is accountable. And that is, I think, where the difference is between peer accountability groups, because peer accountability groups, yeah, we can say, yeah, you were supposed to do this last week, or you, this is, this is on your goal sheet, but the stakes are not as high. I don't believe in a peer accountability group as a coach, because coaches are judged on their effectiveness, right, and they they get business based upon their effectiveness and word of mouth. So when you want to go work with someone where that is a factor, you're going to get education.  07:54 That, I think, really counts and is really intentional and therefore, I believe the quality of that is going to be better and it's going to be directly customized, especially if it's one-on-one coaching, and I do both group coaching and one-on-one coaching. But really, when you get that one-on-one time with a coach, there's nothing better than that, because I mean, I look, I offer group coaching as well, but that one-on-one time is precious. That is where it is all about you. It's customized just for you, your career, your growth. And that is where I think coaching really shines and why it still matters and I think, actually, I think it matters more today than it did in years past, because there's so much more competition out there, tom and there's, of course, you know, the synthetic competition out there there, tom, and there's, of course, you know, the synthetic competition out there and we need to really create something, a footprint for ourselves or a voice print, really for ourselves, that is unique and that is competitive and that can actually connect with our audience, which is what our clients are paying us for.  08:59 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, there are more voiceover opportunities for voice actors of all experience levels than ever ever before. There's more genres than ever. There are more voiceover opportunities for voice actors of all experience levels than ever ever before. There's more genres than ever. There are more casting sites than ever, you know, because when I just started, you know there was radio commercials and TV commercials and you know not that much. I mean there was e-learning, reel-to-reel kind of stuff. You know there wasn't that much more.  09:24 Now there's app narration, explainer videos, you know, audio description. There's just so many other ways to get work. But the flip side of that, Anne, is that it's so complicated because there's almost like there's too many choices and there's too many coaches and there's too many casting sites and there's too many blogs and too many podcasts and too many DAWs and too many CRMs and the ability to navigate that and make sure that their time and money is well spent. It's a huge challenge. I mean, I'm on Reddit pretty regularly hanging out on the voiceover related subreddits and listening and watching and, you know, giving advice and stuff like that, and they all say the same thing I don't know where to find a good coach. I don't know how to vet a good coach. I got ripped off by this coach, isn't?  10:15 - Anne (Host) that funny? That's always the question. That's always the question because I think everybody's overwhelmed with that information. You know, I don't think it's unlike just because it's you know the online world today. I don't think it's unlike choices that you have in most everything, right, where can you find a good one? And so what do we do? We rely on word of mouth, we rely on recommendations from our peers who have had a good coach and can recommend a good coach, and so I think that it's good that we have the community and coaches that are out there. You know, hopefully you have a good reputation and if you don't, and if you're just kind of a fly by night coach, well, people will find that out too. So I think that it's, in a way, it's good that there is lots of talk and communication and I always tell you know people, testimonials are always, they're so worthwhile, and word of mouth and communication, and I always tell you know people, testimonials are always, they're so worthwhile and and word of mouth and recommendations. It really is kind of the way, I think, to get work, to get a good coach to do all of that. But I'm talking for me. I'm involved in the performance aspect of the coaching.  11:19 But you right, first of all, you can have the best voice, you can do the best audition, you can be, have the best performance skills ever, but if somebody doesn't know how to find you, or you're not marketing yourself properly, or you don't have your business set up properly guess what? You're not you're gonna sit there and not get hired. I just spoke to a new student the other day who I literally said he's got four demos. And I and he said, like he's been in the business for six years. And he's like well, I don't have an aging yet and I haven't had a VO job yet. And I'm like well, why have you not had a VO job yet? I mean, he's not like he hasn't spent his money. You know what I mean, and so he needs right.  12:00 And then I went and looked at his website. There's absolutely no. And I said, well, you have no examples of work that you've done. You have, you know, and you can't expect to get it all with just an agent, depending on the genre you're in. And he, basically, I said you can have the best voice in the world, but it's not going to do you any good if nobody can find you. So that's where your business coaching comes into play. So it's not just performance coaching that I think is necessary and business coaching is the non-sexy. It's kind of like I do corporate voiceover and it's like the non-sexy part of voiceover. I think business coaching sometimes gets that same stigma and in fact, it's something that I think people need more than ever, more than ever today. Right, and of course, talk about that, tom, of course as the VO strategist, I always say that everybody should get a business coach.  12:44 - Tom (Guest) But to your point is that you could work with me for years and have the best business model, have the best marketing strategies, but if you're not an effective performer, it's not going to matter.  12:58 Yeah, yeah, just like you said, you could be the best performer in the world, but if nobody knows you exist, it's not going to matter either. So it's this synergistic relationship of developing your what I call your storytelling skills, your VO-101 skills, breath control, microphone technique, your genre skills, you know, to be able to be demo ready, to make that shiny demo, and then you can do the things with the demo, which is what I, as the VO strategist, helps everybody with, and everybody has their own journey. Everybody has their own relationship with themselves internally, which it's our job as coaches to be like. Ok, you know, how does this person tick, how does this person respond? How does this person respond to criticism? How does this person respond to praise? How does this person respond to data? You know, and everybody has their own ideas of what success is for them. And these, you know, these people love these social media platforms and these people hate social media and these people hate all social media, and you know.  14:00 And these people hate social media, and these people hate all social media, and you know. And these people hate online casting sites and so on and so forth. So everybody has their own biases and tendencies and, as effective coaches, on both a performance level and a business and marketing level, you know it's our job to be able to navigate that, and that's why the single most important skill that every voiceover coach performance, business, marketing, tech or otherwise has to have is the ability to listen, which also is the same exact skill that every voice actor needs to be a successful, effective, relevant voice actor. So, if you're having a conversation with someone you're considering coaching with and you can't get a word in because they're talking about themselves or that one cartoon they did 30 years ago, or if it's all sell, sell, sell, that tells you something, because they are not asking you what your pain points are Sure.  14:53 - Anne (Host) Every good marketer Help you solve them.  14:55 - Tom (Guest) Exactly Every good marketer, whether it's a a commercial, tired of using this old mop this way. You know. That's identifying the pain point. If I used to use, I use this mop. This mop stinks. Go use this mop. This mop's great. If there isn't any kind of centered likes, any kind of back and forth, reciprocal. You know what are, what are you going through, what are what challenges have you? What are your struggles? Oh okay, well, based on this, this and this, I can help you with this, this and this, as opposed to some. You know old hack, who's just going to throw these stock scripts at you and you know in three lessons. And then you get your demo using the same scripts that everybody uses or a new hack, who you know?  15:32 - Anne (Host) there are new hacks we've seen a lot of those out there.  15:35 - Tom (Guest) I have noticed quite a few new hacks lately both in the performance and business and marketing categories.  15:42 - Anne (Host) I think also, when you talk about an industry that has evolved and changed so much and especially, you know, this year's been an interesting year I mean you've got changes in things outside of the industry that are affecting, you know, corporations and affecting people who advertise, and affecting the climate of what we do, and so that makes people scared to advertise Sometimes, it makes people scared to spend money. It makes, you know there's all sorts of things happening outside of our industry that affect our industry as well as you know. I mean what's happening in your own personal life as well as you know. I mean what's happening in your own personal life. So we talk about the necessity of performance coaching and business coaching, but there's also, believe it or not, there's something to be said for, you know, coaching of the mind and coaching to be a confident performer, a confident business person, somebody who can be competitive and negotiate in these times where it seems like everybody's vying for the same job, and so there's also mindset skills, I think, that are also valuable to be coached. I think, like you said it in the beginning, like a lifelong learner, I think we always have to be learning. We always have to be learning, and do we have to spend tons and tons of money doing it. No, not necessarily, but I do think that there's an investment there and I think it's something that you need to revisit.  17:08 If you did get coaching prior to your demo, maybe five years ago, and now maybe you need a new demo.  17:15 I personally think that everything needs a refresh and, you know, if you haven't coached in a while, I feel like having someone else's ears listen to you. If you haven't been booking why, why is that? Go to a trusted coach and have them listen to you and see if maybe you've fallen into some sort of a rut where maybe you're not delivering performance-wise I don't know a rut where maybe you're not delivering performance wise. Or, for example, when I spoke to the student yesterday who's like well, I haven't gotten a job yet, and I'm like OK, first of all, I'm looking at your website and you don't have downloadable demos. Your website, your demos, are five years old. You know there's lots of things that can contribute to not getting hired, and so I think that the coaching can. Yes, it's definitely investment, but again, remember, any business, you have investments and I think that again, more than ever, it is important to be educated and understand how you can evolve with the changing VO industry of today.  18:15 - Tom (Guest) I think what I agree with everything that you said wholeheartedly, on top of all, that all voice actors need to invest in empowerment. That is one of the biggest deficiencies that most aspiring voice actors have coming into the industry. They immediately, you know, disempower themselves. They immediately devalue themselves because they have this and this is a system of thought thing that I talk about all the time, Anne is that most people coming into the voice industry think that the industry is vertical, it's a ladder or a mountain and you have to climb it and as you climb it, you kick people in the face and knock them off the ladder or the mountain like it's some reality show and you go ha ha, I take your videos now.  19:01 Haha, I narrate them. You don't blah, blah. That's not how it works. I've always talked about how the voiceover industry is spherical and you're the center of your sphere and your job is to expand your sphere and empower yourself by including as many good humans in it as possible, both agents and managers and audio engineers and coaches and fellow voice actors and your accountant and your lawyer and your graphic designer or your social media manager or whoever to empower you so you can make the best decisions possible to expand that sphere and move your voiceover business forward.  19:36 So to work with an effective coach to be or just to be, just to be educating yourself in general is to empower you you know, on both a personal and a professional level, and the more that you can do that, the better chance you have of making those voiceover dreams come true.  19:55 - Anne (Host) I mean, and and speaking of, we always talk about, what are the red flags? What are the red flags right? How do we know a coach is worthy of my investment? Right, a coach, a business coach or performance coach? You know, I like to start with. First of all, let's let's talk about what it takes to get a good coach. I mean, what are the? What are the green flags Right? What? What do you look for in a good coach? What are some properties of a good coach? Would you?  20:22 - Tom (Guest) say you touched on this earlier. Reputation is definitely one. I mean there's the reputation of someone like a Jennifer Hale who holds the Guinness World Record for the most amount of video game characters ever recorded by a female. So there's a level of something that comes with that.  20:42 Jen also happens to be a great articulator and a great coach, but then there's other coaches that have done one character decades ago hasn't done much work since, and then that's the only thing that they hang their shingle and their reputation on this one character that they played a very, very long time ago. Shingle and their reputation on this one character that they played a very, very long time ago. Jennifer, like you and me and a bunch of our other coaching and voiceover friends are boots on the ground day to day, dare I say, in the trenches. Voice actors. We are working, we are auditioning and marketing and booking regularly. So I always say the first green flag for a good voiceover coach is to go to their voice actor website and go check that out.  21:26 See what they've got, see what they have done recently, see if their demos and YouTube Anne and playlists have been updated recently, check their IMDB profiles and see what work they have done. And layered on top of that, you know, as a voice actor, reputation, obviously, as a voiceover, coach, reputation, testimonials on the website, testimonials on social media platforms, conversations that people are having behind our back on various social media platforms or in subreddits or Discord servers or or facebook groups, like though that's some of the major. Those are two of the biggest green flags is the. You know, because you never know and there is no guarantee of any voice actor achieving any level of success, but you know your chances of empowerment will increase if you work with someone who knows what they're doing, has been doing it for a long time and is doing it today.  22:19 - Anne (Host) Yeah, exactly. So they have evolved over the evolution of the voiceover industry and so they know. They know what agents are looking for, they know what casting directors are looking for, they know what is relevant and current in the industry. So red flags on the other side.  22:38 - Tom (Guest) Well, the red flags are if they just started. There's a lot of voice actors or aspiring voice actors who do a couple of gigs and all of a sudden they hang out their shingle as a voiceover business coach and marketing coach, or performance coach. You and I see it all the time.  22:55 - Anne (Host) I think there has to be some longevity to it.  22:57 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, there needs to be some longevity to it. Yeah, there needs to be some longevity. Now. Everybody has to start somewhere, and you know someone who may turn out to be the greatest performance or business coach ever has to start somewhere, and start with one student.  23:12 And you know what I mean, but for those that haven't been in the industry for very long, that have little or no IMDB credits or have little or no samples on their voiceover website, all of a sudden they're a coach. Well, that's telling you something, and I've seen it from personal experience. People working, for example, with me get some business coaching from me and then a couple months later they're all of a sudden a business coach. And I'm like wait a minute, wait a minute, they never last.  23:38 - Anne (Host) Well, I always think they never last, though.  23:41 You know, for me it's always like and people say this all the time, right, you know the quick success, right, and I see it in. You know ads, in ads like, hey, you don't need expensive equipment or training to be a voice actor. And you know those are designed to sell the dream. And again we have to say it, you know, and it sounds like a broken record, but just if we reach just one person right and I always tell people like, honestly, it's a skill You're becoming an actor. I mean, that doesn't happen overnight. It is a marathon, not a sprint. It really is a marathon, and the people who are truly successful in this industry know that. And marathon by marathon, I'm not talking six months, I'm not talking three months, I'm not talking, I'm talking years, years of working in this industry and putting in the work, doing the auditions, getting the training. Those are the ones that become successful.  24:38 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely. This is a long-term investment. It's just like going to college, going to medical school, going to trade school going to vocational school.  24:49 It takes a long time to develop the skills and collect the tools, both literal, physical, microphone headphones, daw and the other business and marketing tools understanding how to write a business plan, how to create a marketing strategy, how to make long-term investments through blogging and social media, how to make short-term investments through auditioning on free casting sites and then developing your skills, and then maybe moving to pay-to-play casting sites which have higher quality, higher paying auditions and then using that to develop your skills to maybe then you're ready to submit to agents. There are things that have to happen in order. You know, a tomato can't grow until you plant the seed, water it and wait.  25:37 - Anne (Host) Right, exactly. Well, I love that because so many people are like well, I can't invest in another demo or more coaching until I make money in the industry. So, oh gosh, I wish I had a nickel for every time. Somebody said that to me and I'm like but it doesn't quite work like that In reality. You do have to make an initial upfront investment and it may take you a minute before you make that money back. And so you've got to get the skills developed in both running your business, establishing that you know, hanging out the shingle on your online website. There's money involved in that. There's money involved in you know setting up your business or getting you know good business coaching, advertising yourself. And there's, of course, money in performance wise being, you know, coached so that you're competitive.  26:26 In today's industry, you're competitive and doing well, and even the people who do, who are great performers. It's not always an immediate return on investment. I mean, gosh, I mean I've spoken to veterans out there. I mean you have to understand. You have to be in it long enough to understand that you're not going to get a commercial a day necessarily. I mean I don't know anybody that ever has, and that dream can't be sold to you. You really just have to be. I think you have to think what Malcolm? I always go back to Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours, really 10,000 hours of effort and you know to really start to see effective success. And then you evolve into growing into a better performer, a better actor, a better business person. Tom, if somebody's interested in it, how much would you say is when is a good time to invest? When do they take that step and say plunk down my money, here's my money, coach me.  27:37 - Tom (Guest) I would say what has to happen. I think the first thing that has to happen is that they have to invest in storytelling training first. Theater training, on-camera training, singing training, improv training, stand-up comedy training. Pick one of those disciplines.  27:52 - Anne (Host) But does that mean they have to spend money and go to an acting class? Not necessarily.  27:55 - Tom (Guest) I mean improv troops are free. You know open mic night is free. You know there's community theater is free. There's lots of places where they can develop that skill, because first they need to find out if they have that skill they don't want to be on stage.  28:09 - Anne (Host) That's why they're right. That's why they're doing it behind the mic. That's why right.  28:13 - Tom (Guest) So for those people. Right, and the thing about that is they need to find out if they have the ability, through the power of their voice, to engage and be engaging. If you can do that through those, then you can. Then that's when I think is a good time to start your VO training. Here's the other thing, Anne, is that you know. You mentioned briefly AI at the beginning of it. If you are better than AI when you're, you know when you're starting to invest in your training, you're not going to get anywhere.  28:42 - Anne (Host) And what's going to make the difference? And AI reads really well. So if you're nothing but a really pretty reader, yeah, you got no shot.  28:48 - Tom (Guest) You're not going to advance. That's why getting acting, theater, improv, stand up or singing training is going to already you're hitting the ground running by already being better than AI when you're, once you're ready for your VO training. That's why I think you should really start that way.  29:02 - Anne (Host) Yeah, One thing I do want to stress is that my coaching has gone. It was always been acting based. I mean it starts with acting based. So for those people who've never taken acting course, I always I always recommend that they take an acting course anyway, because there's a subtle difference between acting in front of other people or acting with people and then acting behind the mic, and it's nice to have that 360 degree view of all the aspects of the acting. And a good coach will teach you voice acting and not just here's a script, here's how and direct you to a sound that would sound good on a demo, really, and that's why I concentrate. I'm almost obsessed with personally training people to be good actors, because that's going to last them so much longer than just a directed demo. Right, Because if any good director can direct you to a good demo, really it's.  29:55 You know they can give you the read that people are looking for and then you can have a great demo. But then, all of a sudden, when you're asked to produce that or you're trying to audition and you're wondering why you're not booking the jobs, that's because you haven't established the basic skills, the basic acting skills required. Definitely, investment is not just in a voice acting coach, but, yes, in, I think, acting classes, improv classes. All of that can help. All of that can help.  30:21 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely. It's just going to make you that much better, that much faster and that much better of a decision maker than AI, because the real skill, when it comes to true performance, is not about what impressions you can do is can you make strong acting choices quickly, right, right, right. And if you can do that when the client says, hey, abc. That for me, and you can do is can you make strong acting choices quickly, right, right, right. And if you can do that when the client says, hey, abc that for me, and you can give them three takes with different emphasis and different motivations and different levels of engagement.  30:47 That's what's going to get you ahead of the pack.  30:50 - Anne (Host) And honestly, it's one of those things that you have to understand that if you're looking, if you happen to just be getting in this industry and you watch social media, be careful with that, because a lot of what happens on social media is all the positive things, all the hey I booked the gig but I can't tell you about it, or the illusion that you know people are successful, because you know it takes a very special person to be on social media and say, oh gosh, I didn't nail it and I'm so upset Because a lot of times, well, first of all, if it's something that's under NDA, we can't really talk about it anyways.  31:28 But if you give the illusion or you're looking at other people that are giving the illusion that they're successful and making tons of money and they just started or they didn't do it this way, there's multiple ways to be successful in voiceover and there are some people that would say you don't necessarily need coaching. Honestly, I don't buy into that, but I think at some point everybody needs to have that extra ear, hearing them or giving them some sort of education about it, whether it could be a manager, it could be a talent agent. It doesn't have to be an actual voiceover coach, but somebody that's giving you feedback so that you can then take that feedback and improve. Do what you need to educate and improve yourself.  32:12 - Tom (Guest) I think you touched upon something very critical which is one of the most important skills is the ability to self-direct and with COVID wiping out all in-person auditions, at least here in New York City, and for most voice actors, almost 100% of their actual bookings are going to be taking place at home, not being directed. Then you need to learn how to listen to yourself objectively when it comes to pace and tone and inflection and sibilance and regionalisms and mic placement and breath control and, obviously, performance choices. That you should be able to learn how to hear yourself and adjust accordingly, because if you can't do that, you can't be an effective voice actor.  32:58 - Anne (Host) That's a process being able to self-direct, it's being able to develop an ear. An ear doesn't happen overnight, typically, it just doesn't. It's hard for people to actually hear themselves without actually hearing how they sound and to evaluate themselves as an actor. So it is tough. Themselves as an actor. So it is tough. And it does take, I think, a lot of I'm going to say a lot of practice, a lot of you know, auditions, a lot of failing, a lot of just going oh shoot, what could I have done wrong? Or maybe feedback, and so, yeah, there's a lot to that. I mean, gosh, we could just go on all day. But guys, again, you know we're both coaches. Of course we'd love it if you coach with us, but just know that it's valuable. It's valuable in today's voiceover industry to have another set of ears, to have a trusted coach, somebody. That's what they do. They've been established in the business that is guiding you along this career, which, again, is a marathon not a sprint. Good discussion, tom, yeah.  33:57 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Good discussion All right, tom.  33:58 - Anne (Host) Yeah, good discussion. All right guys. I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You too can network and connect like bosses, like real bosses. Find out more at IPDTLcom. Have an amazing week and we'll see you next week. Bye.  34:13 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by a very special guest, Aisha Manrique, a distinguished voice talent and coach whose voice resonates across the Caribbean and beyond. In this illuminating conversation, they explore the unique landscape of the Caribbean voiceover industry, where talent must build their careers through hustle and intentional branding. Aisha shares her inspiring journey, from being "divinely called" to the industry to becoming the voice of Disney.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by the incomparable Melique Berger, a true icon in the voiceover world with over 50 years of acting experience. In this powerful conversation, they explore the central truth of the industry: a voice actor must be an actor first.  

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by her lovely co-host, Danielle Famble, for the Boss Money Talk Series. The BOSSes tackle a fundamental challenge of a voiceover freelance career: managing inconsistent income. Drawing from her past job experiences, Danielle shares practical wisdom on how to budget, save, and build a financial cushion. This conversation redefines "budgeting" as a tool for empowerment and offers a strategic roadmap for every voice actor to take control of their finances, ensure stability, and thrive.   00:00 - Anne (Host) Hey guys, are you ready to achieve those dreams? With MyLife Transformation coaching services, I can help you reach your full potential. Don't let fear and uncertainty hold you back. Take control of your life today. Visit anneganguzza.com to get started.  00:20 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:39 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss Podcast and the Boss Money Talk Series. I'm Anne Ganguzza and I am here with my lovely co-host, Danielle Famble.  00:49 - Danielle (Guest) Hey Anne, hello Danielle, hey, hey, how you doing, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.  00:53 - Anne (Host) Well, I am glad to have you back and I have a topic for discussion today, because I've had, on more than one occasion, some students recently talk to me about gosh. I'm just having a hard time finding work and I don't know if I should continue to stay in this industry because it's just getting too hard. I mean to sustain it, and so what should I do? It would be a worthy topic of discussion to talk about, like this particular industry and how we handle our financial situation in times of inconsistency, because it's just a known fact, guys, bosses out there, it is an inconsistent, it is part of being an entrepreneur. Our, our income is inconsistent. So what do we do and how do we budget for those times when maybe it's slow or, you know, when it's not slow, and what do we do when we have inconsistent income?  01:55 - Danielle (Guest) That's such a good question. That's a big part of being a boss, being an entrepreneur and being in this business, and it's good to give the perspective one you know to your students that you're coaching and to anyone listening. You're not alone. It doesn't mean that you're a bad voice actor. It doesn't mean that you're bad at this business. That is the nature of what it is, that we do, and so it has nothing to do with you or your worth or the fact that you're not good. Slow months happen all the time. It happens to the best of us.  02:24 - Anne (Host) And you know, I think it's really something a point worth mentioning is I've been in this industry about 18 years and it's always inconsistent, like there's not been a year where it hasn't been inconsistent. So it is something that I think, if you plan correctly and you're prepared for, it doesn't come as a surprise and it's something that you can absolutely continue to grow and build your business through oh, totally Inconsistent income. So, as long as you plan and strategize, yeah, and you just know this is normal.  02:56 - Danielle (Guest) This has not got anything to do with you. This is a normal thing, you know. It reminds me of I don't know if you know this, anne, but I used to be a waitress for a long, long time. I was a waitress at comedy clubs and the way that I made my money was on tips, and so I got used to living on an inconsistent income and realizing that there's going to be a couple of days or weeks or months where it's going to be great and then it's going to be slow. Maybe you get cut because it's so slow that they don't need you to be there. But you know, the thing that didn't get cut was my fixed expenses, my rent, my cell phone bill, all of those things.  03:35 So I would say to those are stable. Yeah, figure out what your stable expenses are and make sure that you can keep that as your base and plan for your base Anything on top of that. You know when times are great and when you're making a lot more money, you can use that to keep it to the side for a buffer, but really just know what your base expenses are, which then goes back to our longstanding conversation about knowing your numbers and the data and everything else. If you're too afraid to look at what your expenses are, you're not going to know what your base is that you need to be able to maintain at all times. So really like have the courage, look at what are your expenses that are fixed, that are stable, and know what your base is, and you want to be able to hit your base every single month.  04:22 - Anne (Host) So then, budget around your worst month, not your best month. Yeah, absolutely Right. And and that and the and the numbers on your worst month can can actually like I. I mean, I could say what are your expenses and your worst month would be you didn't make anything. Budget around that. That's what I would say. Right, that's your worst case scenario, and so you'll still need to be able to function. And so what does that mean in terms of if I don't make any income for an entire month, does that mean I should give up my voiceover business, danielle?  04:54 - Danielle (Guest) I don't think so, but I do think that you do need to have some way of knowing that there is income coming in from another form. So maybe it's not the income coming in from your voiceover business, because you didn't make anything that month but you do have a nine to five or you do have a babysitting job or you do have. You know, you do Uber on the weekends or what have you. Just know that there needs to be, that money needs to be coming in from somewhere else. If it's not coming in from somewhere else, then we need to find how can we get to our first dollar. Is it in voiceover? Is it in another way of making money? But make sure that you know that there is some income coming in so that, even if the income from your voiceover business is at zero for the month, you know that there is income coming in from somewhere else that's going to be able to offset and still hit your baseline goal.  05:43 - Anne (Host) And I think your budget right for those months you don't live on that budget. I mean it should be a budget for a budget that is a low-income month, not necessarily like I'm going to continue to go to Starbucks every morning or I'm going to. Maybe that's a necessity, maybe you feel like that's worked into your bare necessities, but is that something that you're willing to give up in a low-income month? Or is going out to dinner? I think that's the biggest one. I think, like my husband and I are like okay, we got to stop going out to dinner, right, because that's an unnecessary expense. If we're trying to tighten our budget during a low-income month, it's mostly like oh, and we're going to go out and spend money doing this, or are we going to go out and spend money doing that? A lot of times it's based around food. Why is that?  06:25 - Danielle (Guest) Yeah, I mean, that's mine as well. It's food, but then sometimes it's you know, if you're going to be spending additional money on things in your business, maybe it's that you forego coaching for the next couple of months because you don't really have the money for that, or maybe you need to forego some other things in your business and subscriptions that maybe can be paused. It's not just what you're doing in your life, it's also things that you can cut back in your business too, so that you can make sure that you know. You know, I know that my fixed expenses for the operations of me are this these are the things that will you know, that are always going to stay the same my housing, food, you know, basic necessities, business expenses.  07:10 - Anne (Host) Business expenses as well, I'm going to say rocket money. I had a free trial and I used it. It's great for finding out those recurring monthly expenses that you have that all of a sudden like oh, that Sirius XM like subscription that I have for my car, which I don't drive very often because I work from home, right, but now I can play SiriusXM everywhere, but still that subscription costs, and it used to only cost like $12.99. Now it's like $25 a month, and so that can help you keep track of those subscriptions that creep up on you that you may or may not be utilizing.  07:44 - Danielle (Guest) And everything is a subscription nowadays, so really you have to. It's so sneaky, but you can find a lot of unused subscriptions and then you can recoup some of that money back just by saying no, thank you to those subscriptions.  07:59 - Anne (Host) Think about your Starbucks as a subscription. That's true, really, if it's something you do every day, I mean really. I mean I know there's a lot of people that that's a daily habit, and you know. Think of that as a subscription. And one other thing I wanted to mention, and I would not have even thought of this really until I incorporated and became an S Corp but I am required to pay myself a salary, right, and that's something that you know.  08:22 When you're trying to like skimp on your, your budget, or you're trying to figure out your expenses, don't forget you need money to live, you need money to buy the groceries, you need money to pay the rent you need, and so I think it's always a good idea, even if you're not an S-corp, to really kind of think about here's the money coming in. A portion of that should be set aside for my expenses, for me, right, that's my salary, and then pay yourself on a set schedule. I think that helps you really get an idea as to okay, here's the money I need to live on, here's the money that's profiting in my business. I don't know. It's just one of those things that maybe it's worth it to take a look at.  09:03 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely. That should be a core staple that everyone should be doing is you know we're doing this. We're in business to make a profit, and so the idea is I need to get paid, and making sure that you pay yourself first so that you are getting used to, and your business is getting used to, that expense of making sure you're paid. That's the study and that's actually how you can stay steady is okay. I know that I'm going to be paying myself a certain amount every single month. That is the expense of my business to pay me, but that's also how I'm able to pay my bills, keeping that steady, and it doesn't need to be that you wait until you are an S-Corp to do that. I would say try to start doing that as quickly as possible. Once you have established the fact that you're doing this business, you're in business.  09:51 - Anne (Host) I would not have realized that until you know I really started an S-Corp and I should have actually. Again, I needed to take a look at the numbers.  09:59 - Danielle (Guest) Here's the deal when you do have those lean months, it doesn't come as such a shock no-transcript Because if you wait, that is going to be a surprise likely to you where you're not really expecting it. And then you get into a really unfortunate situation where this inconsistent income has caused an inconsistent pattern in how you're paying yourself and how you're putting money to the side. So make sure that when you're paying yourself you're also making sure to take care of your tax liabilities.  11:01 - Anne (Host) Yes, Excellent idea. And another thing, as I look at you here in your brand new, shiny, sparkly studio, right and we've talked about this so many times before is having that financial cushion, right, Having that emergency fund. But I think honestly, like, if you can have more than just that emergency fund, which doesn't get touched under the extreme circumstances of an emergency, but consider having another fund which is, you know, just a one to three cushion fund, right, Right that you have to live in the event that you have a slow month, right, and having that separate fund where you feel secure and confident that you can take from that fund and you're not dipping into that emergency fund. Because I always feel guilty if I'm dipping into my emergency fund. Well, number one, because my emergency fund is heavily invested in my high-yield savings account, which doesn't mean that you can't have a one to three-month cushion also sitting in a high-yield savings account, and so I always feel like, oh, I don't want to touch that because I want to keep earning interest on the greatest amount of money possible Sure yeah.  12:06 And so that's my emergency fund, but also maybe having a separate fund just for, oh, times are lean this month and you know, and I'm going to say, maybe, in order to give me better mental health, I do need a Starbucks today or I do need a pair of earrings today. But I'm going to be a caution. I'm going to caution people to not necessarily go out and shop your, your financial worries away, because you know, that's me. I've definitely been in that trap where, oh, I just need to feel better. Let me go out and buy some new clothes, yeah, or a new lipstick, yeah.  12:41 I think try not to do that. But you know, I think that one to three month other fund that you have will help you to pay the bills.  12:47 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely. And so then you can use sort of a system where you're making sure that when things are inconsistent and times are a little bit leaner and you're not making as much money, you know what your baseline, your core base expenses are. And then, when things are going really well and you're making a lot more money and you had a really great month, you put some of that money to the side in that cushion fund that's not your emergency fund and when things are low, you use that cushion fund to make sure that you're staying afloat. I like that sort of cycle of making sure that you are taking care of yourself. It's not necessarily feast or famine when things are going really well.  13:28 You have already looked ahead and taken care of yourself, because you know that this is a cyclical business, this is inconsistent. It's an inconsistent income kind of business and you know that one day you're going to need to use the money that you are currently making. Don't just spend everything that you're making. Put it to the side so that when it is inconsistent and when it is a slower month, you're pulling from the times when you had a really great month to keep yourself, you know, in balance. And that's, I think, the way to do it is you should look at this month or any given month, as am I taking care of me now, or am I taking care of me now and me in the future? But always make sure that you are doing that delicate balance.  14:16 - Anne (Host) Speaking of, you know, setting aside money for taxes, and setting aside, you know, that money. Don't forget about retirement guys. Don't forget about a retirement fund. Please don't forget about retirement. One thing I want to say is that and I'm not a money girl, right, or I never thought of myself as a money girl, but can I just tell you, the software companies are making it easier and easier. Like your credit cards are now categorizing your spending, right, Because, of course, they want you to use the credit card more. So they're going to categorize it and you can find out where your expenses are going, and if you use the credit card, you can get 3% back. Blah, blah, blah, blah blah. They want to encourage credit card spending, but also you can use that as a method for really finding out where is all your money going.  14:57 Quickbooks like I never thought. Like my QuickBooks Online. Like you can generate a report literally a report in a matter of seconds, Whereas before it used to be really difficult, man, If you were doing like spreadsheets. And I don't know, Danielle, I can't remember what product you use, but I mean I need something simple, something that does the work for me. Some people are really hardcore and go right into the Excel spreadsheet and that's how they track their budget. But, like for me, I just generate, I flip, I generate a report really quickly in QuickBooks and it tells me, oh my gosh, I spent so much money this month on my expenses going out versus what was coming in, and so I can really then make an educated and strategized decision based upon those reports.  15:39 And I can do, I can generate those reports at the flick of a button. And even if I hate finances right which I know a lot of people don't like to look at their, their money yeah, it's again one of those things. This is your business and it is something that, if you're not looking at it, pay somebody else to do it, like my accountant. Then talk with your accountant and say, hey, look, where's all my money going. Or I found that I had a slow month. And then have that weekly meeting or that monthly meeting that says here, OK, they can break it down for you and say, look, you're, they can generate the reports and they say, look, here's what you're spending on lipstick and or here's what you're spending on restaurants going out, and here's where you can maybe potentially save money. Or think about taking this money that you have left over and putting it into this type of an investment account.  16:23 - Danielle (Guest) This money that you have left over and putting it into this type of an investment account and taking care of future you.  16:29 So you've got sort of the shorter term future you of this one to three months cushion for when times are lean. You've got your emergency fund, which usually I say you know, six to eight months I say closer to for me, yeah, six to eight months, which is a pretty big emergency fund, but that's because we're self-employed and so I want to have a pretty good cushion, or the longer term fund being your retirement. And there are ways, depending on how you have it set up, where, if you're investing in your retirement account, that helps you in tax time because it might lower the amount that you are paying on your taxes.  17:05 So it is always forward looking. It's looking at what's happening today and it's looking at what would be happening in the shorter term future or longer term future. And how can you use the windfall that you have or maybe are not experiencing now? How can you use that to keep you afloat, you know, with your core base expenses. But it really is again going back to do. You know what those core base expenses are Right, and how can you stay, you know, level with them. And if you need to dip into the bank of you, then you can do that with no shame and no problem, knowing that you've already done the work to take care of yourself.  17:44 - Anne (Host) From a girl that's a little less of a money girl to a girl who is a money girl. One thing that always sneaks up on me are those antics annual fees or the recurring right subscriptions or that come up once a year. Because I went from let's not do it every month, let's save and let's do yearly subscriptions, but every once in a while, if I'm not paying attention, that yearly subscription will come up and it'll be taken out of my account and I'll be like whoa, how do you do you prepare yourself? I do For those things. So talk about how you prepare you know some of those things.  18:18 - Danielle (Guest) you know we use the word like surprise expenses, when, like it's kind of like these are super noble things, like yeah, I signed up for that credit card that has that high annual fee.  18:27 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It was me.  18:28 - Danielle (Guest) It wasn't like some, somebody impersonating me Right large expense, that is, a knowable expense. I typically will put a calendar alert in a month in advance so that I can remind myself that this is coming. For example, my credit cards. I have the American Express Platinum card, I have the American Express Gold card and they have very high annual fees and for some reason I applied for them around the same time of the year and different years. So they, the annual fees, they come and they hit like roughly, like right, one after the other and I always think to myself Danielle, what did you do?  19:05 Why did you do that? Why did you do that? Why did what were you doing in December that you really needed a new credit? Why did you do that right in the same time. And that's, you know, my own personal journey. But I know that it's coming, so I can prepare either a little bit every single month to make sure I'm ready for that, yeah, or because I've given myself that calendar alert saying hey, danielle, just so you know this is coming up next month, I'm already mentally and financially prepared that that hit is about to happen. Most of those, you know, those subscriptions, those annual subscriptions, those are things that are knowable expenses, albeit big expenses. So your calendar is your very best friend. Give yourself the heads up and know that it's coming.  19:49 - Anne (Host) I agree I live by my calendar anyway for a day-to-day schedule of things that I'm doing. And I think if you have a calendar, a financial calendar, I mean my goodness. I mean you could make an easy financial calendar. I use Google Calendar for everything and they're color-coded when do I have coaching sessions? When do I have monthly workouts coming up, when do I have all of these things, holidays and that sort of thing, so you could have a financial calendar that has all of your subscription renewals and or your monthly costs, like those base costs that we talked about, so that you're prepared.  20:25 This month I'm going to plan on spending this amount of money. And also, again, it's one of those things that if you have an accounting software that can be generated in an accounting software easily, your monthly budget, absolutely, and you know it's something that you need to like. And again, I'm talking from a girl. I'm not a money girl, but I have to force myself to do that and take a hard look at what's going out every month and how can I cut? And I recently just said, ok, how can I trim the budget in my company, because I had been like, oh, let me try this software. I'm a big risk taker Danielle, and we talk about this thing, I hoard software too.  21:04 Yeah, I buy software subscriptions, I try things out and then I forget about them sometimes right.  21:10 I was like, oh, I haven't used it. I tried that out, I paid for the subscription, I forgot about it. So every once in a while I have to revisit what am I putting my money into, and has it given me a return on my investment? And if not, I need to trim the fat. And so I really I did that more recently so that I could have money to invest in something different.  21:31 So again I had, and I invest in in people who who work for me, and again I wanted to invest in some additional advertising, and so I needed to get that money from somewhere Right. So I had to kind of figure out where can I consolidate my expenses Right? Can I get, now that you know I've evolved in my business so many years, maybe I don't need this particular, I don't need as much social media, maybe I don't need, you know, that monthly subscription to this particular? You know, pay to play. Am I really using this pay to play?  22:07 And again, you know, figure out what am I? Where's my money coming in? Where am I making the most of my money? And do I want to reinvest my money coming in into that, into getting more of that, or do I want to reinvest my money coming in into that, into getting more of that, or do I want to diversify and maybe explore another genre of voiceover, or I want to get more voiceover work in this particular genre? What's it going to take for me to get there? So I think, really again taking a look at the money, and if you hate looking at money, I suggest, even if you hate looking at money, it's something that you got to do. Consider it an education in running your own business.  22:40 - Danielle (Guest) I would consider, if you hate looking at money, that you really need to look at money.  22:46 - Anne (Host) If you don't like it, then you really need to do it If you don't like it, that's a flag.  22:50 - Danielle (Guest) That's a flag, that's a flag. Run toward it, run toward it.  22:55 - Anne (Host) I love it.  22:55 - Danielle (Guest) I was told by my financial advisor to have money dates with myself, and I think what you're talking about would be a really great thing to do twice a year of these sinking funds, these mini emergency fund or emergency fund, so that you know where you need to divert more of your money in the good months, in the months where you're making so much more money than you planned for. That's really a great thing to do and I would say once or twice a year to reevaluate that, because maybe your one to three month or your short term emergency fund, let's say, is about a couple thousand dollars under. So you know. Ok, you know what. Why don't I put my money and my focus on beefing that up so that when we have these inconsistent months or when we have lower months, I know that I'm good. You won't know until you take the time to really look at it. So give yourself the money date of taking a real look at your money and knowing your numbers about what is your core expenses, what can you maybe trim or what can you press pause on, and then what can you run toward when it's time and when you have the money for it.  24:18 I love the idea of sinking funds. You have a fund specifically for your education, for your just slower months, for things that you do when you book that really big job and maybe you want to take yourself on a nice you know nice dinner or something like that like ways to celebrate. You can have multiple of these sinking funds. That's what something like that, like ways to celebrate. You can have multiple of these, these sinking funds. That's what I like about some of these online accounts where you can have a bank account that will give you an unlimited number of smaller, you know, virtual accounts where you can just put that money to the side I love that that's great.  24:52 - Anne (Host) It's a really great hack that I use.  24:54 That's a new concept and and what I like.  24:57 What I like about how you're talking and you're phrasing this whole conversation is you're talking about funds, right, you're talking about fund accounts, yeah, versus when, when and I don't know if this is just me and my age, but, like whenever I was talked about, well, you need to set up a budget that had a negative connotation and that meant that I wasn't making the money that I should have been making, or I was. You know what I mean? I was somehow lacking in whatever, mostly in money, right, I was lacking in money and the ability to either manage my money or whatever it was, but it had a negative connotation and I think that we need to reframe that whole concept. Again, if we talk about, like, money blocks, right, it could be a form of a money block and, in reality, the term budget, you can rephrase it to say you know, your money funds or your fund account it's giving you more of like a permission to celebrate it because you are strategizing, you are creating a future with a purpose, yes, and your purpose is focused, strategized and smart.  26:03 - Danielle (Guest) Absolutely, and it's purposeful. It's what you've decided that you're going to do. So budgeting for me, when I think about it, it's what am I deciding that I'm going to be spending my money on and this money is allocated towards that thing that I already decided. If you take away the concept that a budget is restricting you, it's not restricting you. It's where you have already pre-purposed and pre-determined where your money is going to go, and then you just do as you set out. It gives you freedom and it puts you in the driver's seat. You decided that you want to spend your money on the Starbucks or your whatever, and isn't that what we?  26:44 - Anne (Host) yeah, Exactly, Isn't that what we decided? Bosses right, we are in the driver's seat. We are the boss Totally, and you know you need to be the boss of all aspects of this business. And I think, if you really take a look at your budgets and or your funding accounts and I love what you just said about the virtual accounts there, Danielle that's a concept that I actually was not aware of, so now I'm going to be researching that because I love that, I love being able to it's like my content buckets for social media, right? This?  27:15 is going to be my fund buckets for Ann's Lipstick, no, for my business. Right For that Starbucks account. I've got money in it. So I think that really gives us a much clearer strategy and purpose when really looking at our business. And again, you always want to go forward and move forward in your business and this is one way that you guys can get there Totally.  27:38 - Danielle (Guest) You are in the driver's seat. These are not things happening to you. You can make the decision as to where you spend your money when it comes, and if you need to dip into the bank of you so that you future you is taken care of, because the you of today did the work to make sure that they were taking care of future. You Love that. That's. What I love about being an entrepreneur is that I'm taking responsibility for myself and taking care of responsibility of myself today and also future me, by putting money into the spending buckets or to the sinking funds, to my retirement account, to my emergency fund, and then I am making these financial decisions with me in mind, because that's my job is to take care of myself and also the people that are around me that I touch with my business, with my life, with my purpose.  28:32 - Anne (Host) And with that lovely words of wisdom, danielle, I'm going to thank you so much. What a great conversation. Yeah, this is a great conversation. Love it, love it, love it. Bosses, I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. You, too, can connect and network like the money boss that Danielle is. I absolutely love it. I love, love, loved our conversation. Thank you again, bosses. Have an amazing week and we will see you next week. Bye.  28:58 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Bye. Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.   

BOSS Anne Ganguzza is joined by Lau Lapides for a discussion on the most fundamental skill for a successful voice actor: storytelling. From breaking out of a predictable melody to using props and sensory cues, Anne and Lau provide actionable tips and acting techniques to help you bring authenticity, emotion, and life to every script.

BOSSes, Anne Ganguzza is joined by Tom Dheere to tackle a topic many voice actors fear most: marketing. In this episode, they break down the essential difference between direct marketing (you go to them) and indirect marketing (they come to you). The hosts discuss how to make both strategies work for you, offering a powerful, actionable roadmap for building a sustainable voiceover business. 00:01 - Anne (Host) Hey boss listeners. Are you ready to turn your voiceover career goals into achievements? With my personalized coaching and demo production, I'm here to help you reach new milestones. You know you're already part of a boss community that strives for the very best. Let's elevate that. Your success is my next project. Find out more at anneganguzza.com.  00:25 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) It's time to take your business to the next level, the boss level. These are the premier business owner strategies and successes being utilized by the industry's top talent today. Rock your business like a boss a VO boss. Now let's welcome your host, Anne Ganguzza.  00:44 - Anne (Host) Hey everyone, welcome to the VO Boss podcast and the Real Boss series. I'm your host, Anne Ganguzza, and I'm here with Mr Tom Dheere. Hello, hello, hello, the Real Boss, Tom Dheere.  00:56 - Tom (Guest) Hi, I'm seeing the light ring in my glasses. I'm going to change. I want to change these.  01:01 - Anne (Host) Wait, I thought you said I'm seeing the light.  01:03 - Tom (Guest) I'm seeing the light. Well, yeah, no, but the light was seeing me and my glasses, so I'm switching over. I have, like different pairs of glasses for where I'm at.  01:11 - Anne (Host) No, really. So like these are better. I hear that. I hear that Yours are part of a marketing strategy.  01:18 - Tom (Guest) Mine are purely because my eyeballs are decomposing. I can hear them.  01:22 - Anne (Host) But me too, though, I need them as well, and I figure I might as well make them part of a marketing strategy. And speaking of marketing, yes. Great segue, isn't it? I think it's one of the most feared things for any voice actor is to actually think and do marketing, and so it's a great topic to talk about, because, I mean, we could talk like multiple podcasts about it, but let's talk about marketing Indirect marketing, direct marketing. They're both important.  01:49 - Tom (Guest) Yes, absolutely.  01:50 - Anne (Host) Let's distinguish the difference.  01:52 - Tom (Guest) Right, and this is the thing that when most people come into the voiceover industry, they think and their instinct is correct, so I need to market myself. What does that mean? For most people, it's slamming into social media sideways and talking about what they had for breakfast, or it most often means cold calls and cold emails. Now, you can clearly lump all of that stuff together into marketing, but there's a lot more to it. It's a lot more nuanced than that.  02:18 - Anne (Host) You say the word cold calls and I think people go cold. I know they do. They're like oh no cold calls now.  02:25 - Tom (Guest) So the way I talk about it is that there is direct marketing and then there is indirect marketing, also known as active marketing or passive marketing. So direct or active marketing is when you are seeking out specific potential clients and you are basically grabbing them by the lapels and saying, hey, you give me money to say stuff out loud.  02:48 - Anne (Host) Here I am. Hello, this is me.  02:50 - Tom (Guest) Hello, right Now that's a cold call, that is a cold email. There's also follow-up emails and getting your seven touches.  02:57 - Anne (Host) And that's direct, because it's direct contact with a potential client.  03:01 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. And then there is indirect marketing, which is where you're kind of like doing your thing over here in hopes that people or robots will notice you Right and come to you Right. So, for example, working on search engine optimization on your website, that's a form of indirect marketing or passive marketing, because if somebody's searching for you, hopefully your website or your content will rank higher on Google, bing, yahoo and they'll be like, hey, who's this person? And then they reach out to you Right.  03:30 - Anne (Host) Or they're seeing you on social media.  03:32 - Tom (Guest) Social media, exactly, is another perfect example of indirect marketing. So that's where you're kind of like demonstrating your value, your progress, your humanity as a voice actor and a person, in hopes that it will get voice seekers' attention and be engaged with your content and hopefully you'll stay top of mind for future projects.  03:50 - Anne (Host) An easy I would say an easy way of thinking about it is direct marketing. You go to them In direct marketing. They're coming to you.  03:58 - Tom (Guest) Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right.  04:00 - Anne (Host) I think, equally terrifying for voice actors yes, yes, I think that it's great that we made the distinction now between the two.  04:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) And.  04:09 - Anne (Host) I think the one that really causes people probably the most terror is the direct marketing part of it, because they have to reach out to someone who is a complete stranger to them and that we are a complete stranger to them and they're a complete stranger to us. And so direct marketing, I think, requires, I think, a little more knowledge, so it makes it a little less scary.  04:29 - Tom (Guest) I think so too.  04:36 - Anne (Host) That's the way I see it, and what I try to explain to a lot of my students who talk about marketing and their fear of marketing is, of course, all the indirect methods, which they're probably much more apt to do, because they can create a blog, they can go on social media, they can create a video, they can do things like that, and that to them, I think, is more of a concrete path than oh my God, I got to go find someone. Who do I reach out to, what do I say and how does that work? And so I think the first distinction that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying. Is that I want to make with direct marketing is to make it less terrifying is just an understanding that people have needs. How many times can I bring up the Chanel lipstick, right?  05:09 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) How many times it's a great example.  05:10 - Anne (Host) I just keep going back to it where here's the Chanel lipstick. It is part of my brand and I want to work with this company, chanel, and so ultimately, they don't know who I am. I mean, I kind of know who they are, but I don't know exactly who I should contact. And so when does Chanel have a need for voiceover? Right, when they have a campaign, right when they have a campaign and when maybe they have a voiceover and they want to replace that voice, and so it's very much based on need and when they need voiceover, a voiceover.  05:41 It's not that. Oh, I'm going to reach out and I never heard back and therefore that's a bad lead or it didn't work or I'm done. I failed. You cannot think that, guys, because it's all on a timely basis, so when I need a new lipstick, I'm not constantly searching for a new lipstick, but when I need one, then if an email comes my way or a social media ad comes my way talking about a new shade of red, I'll be like, oh, I need that, let me look into it.  06:10 And that's the same thing that, as a voice actor, you need to understand about direct marketing.  06:14 - Tom (Guest) Right, put it another way. And what are the client's pain points? How can you cure what ails them? How can you solve their problems? So I'm going to take your Chanel lipstick example and I'm going to continue it. So let's put it in voiceover terms Chanel wants to advertise that lipstick. So they want to make advertisements of some sort. It could be print, it could be digital, it could be TV, radio streaming or whatever. Right, chanel?  06:42 - Anne (Host) Look to me, Chanel. I talk about you all the time. I'm just saying In my podcast Please make Anne a compensated endorser for your lovely products.  06:51 - Tom (Guest) So Chanel usually would have to hire a marketing agency or an ad firm or something like that to come up with whatever. The concept would be. Okay, well, this is Chanel, it's this type of lipstick, we're targeting this type of audience, or they?  07:04 have it in-house or they have it in-house and they'll say, okay, well, our demographic is women of this particular age range.  07:19 Okay, so we need to make sure that the content and context of the advertisement is making sure that we're targeting that particular demographic.  07:22 It needs to appeal to them on a visual or an auditory level or some other combination of that. Maybe we need to get an influencer in here or a celebrity or something like that, but we still need a voice actor to do whatever the radio or streaming or TV is. So they come up with a concept, they write the script. Now they need to get a production company to turn this script into reality and then the production company now this is where they have choices. They can go to a casting director and a casting director and the casting director can then reach out to agents and managers to find the voice actors. They can post that casting notice on a casting site like a Voice 123 or a VO Planet or a Badalgo, or they can have their own roster of voice actors that every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors. That every time a casting notice comes up, they go through their own list of voice actors and then send the casting notices out to the appropriate voice actors to collect auditions right.  08:12 - Anne (Host) Before you continue, I'm going to intercept and say all right, let's talk about how often do they need this right? That is something that is the big unknown right. How often are they needing a new campaign? And that is something that I think is the most ambiguous, maybe, to the voice actor, because we don't know we don't work for the company, we don't know how often they need these new ads. So what I don't want people to expect, and I think what a lot of people do expect, is like well, I reached out to them and they don't want me. Well, they don't have a need for you Yet. Yeah, and I don't think it's appropriate to think that any one company needs a voice actor 24-7.  08:48 - Tom (Guest) Unless you're Joseph Riano.  08:50 - Anne (Host) But that's a different genre, right. That's promo, that's a different genre, that's promo and that's actually a network right.  08:55 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Right.  08:55 - Anne (Host) That, yeah, you're required to do these ads because things change all the time. Chanel lipstick how often are they coming up with new colors? How often are they coming up with new colors? There's seasons, right? How often are they coming up with new lipsticks? Right? That is not necessarily a daily. Companies don't come out with new products every single day, so therefore they may not have a need. So please keep that in mind, guys, because I think a lot of people get discouraged when they don't hear back. Marketing is the long haul. It's a marathon, not a sprint.  09:21 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, getting auditions from your agents and managers and getting auditions from online casting sites. Those are short term. There's an audition right now. You audition for it right now Because they've had a need Right. Using direct and indirect marketing strategies is a long-term investment in developing relationships with clients Big distinction. A lot of people argue oh, agents are better than this and this is better than that, and none of that is true.  09:46 All of it's extremely subjective, based on the genres of voiceover that you want to do and the marketing methods and comfort level that you have with technology and interpersonal stuff. Like some people will be like I'll make cold calls all day. I love doing it. And some people are like I'm terrified of talking to people. I will only post stuff on social media and I will only talk about in a very narrow way and all of that is fine. But to Anne's point. Well, first off, we're thinking about them a lot more than they're thinking about us.  10:13 - Anne (Host) Oh my God, yes, amen, amen. That is so very true, because we want to be hired by them.  10:19 - Tom (Guest) Right, of course, and to Anne's point, they don't need any voiceover for a product or service or brand at this moment in time, and when they do, it may not necessarily be you and a lot of the times they don't have any control over the product or service or brand and what the demands there are from the end client or the ad agency or the marketing firm or the campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign. Right, and with a campaign that dictates the quality and quantity of the demographics of the voice actors that they're needed for that particular campaign.  10:48 - Anne (Host) Right, and with a campaign, typically they want to have, like in any kind of a brand, consistency right. Typically, if there's a product and you're the voice of that product or that brand, it typically is something that will be recurring for a certain amount of time. It's not like today's ad is going to feature my voice and tomorrow it's going to feature somebody else's voice. They want to work in a little bit of consistency for that brand and that includes the voice. So understand that they're not having a need for a new voice actor every single time they're airing the ad or putting it out there on social media. That may be.  11:19 You are a voice for a campaign which runs for a certain length of time, which is why we base our rates especially when it's broadcast right on where it's being played and for how long Because we are a voice for that particular time, for that particular campaign. Now, if they want to extend that right, they will pay to extend that or they'll find a new voice if they're looking for that.  11:42 - Tom (Guest) Right, we love the rebuys where you narrate something and it's good for a certain period. I got that phone call two weeks ago. I did a social media ad and for a six month term, and they literally called me on the phone. They're like, hey, they want to do it again, bill us, yeah, and I just build them. And they're like, oh, and we have two more spots. That's the wonderful part.  11:59 - Anne (Host) But the thing is is like for that particular brand, right Voice actors. If you're going to reach out to that same company and say, hey, I'm a voice actor, hire me. Well, they've got Tom right For reasons within the campaign. If his voice is working and that's what they want, they're going to continue to have Tom. So don't take it personally, don't beat Tom up.  12:19 - Tom (Guest) Tom is like sorry not sorry, Sorry, not sorry Sorry not sorry, sorry, not sorry.  12:22 - Anne (Host) I think we just have sometimes a very narrow view of what it's like on the other side of the glass and to have that need and that desire to create a campaign with a voice, and so you have to be understanding of the way it works.  12:34 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, another point on that is that late last year a voice actor posted on Facebook an infographic that I want to say it was. An explainer video producer posted an infographic. They tracked the amount of hours that it takes to produce an explainer video, which obviously includes concept writing, storyboard, budget, legal department, music and all of that stuff, and the amount, the percentage that involved the voice actor, was 1.5%. Yeah, 1.5%. So often we as voice actors are an afterthought.  13:06 - Anne (Host) Yeah, we're the last part of the journey there.  13:08 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and sometimes I'll just ask around the office, or their niece, who's a musical theater major, and they just give it to them and that's it.  13:15 - Anne (Host) But yes, obviously casting notices are posted everywhere all the time and it's so funny because I mean, when I'm doing oh, it's funny because I'm dabbling a little bit in fashion and when I'm creating videos, I mean my main thing is that I'm talking about the brand or I'm showcasing the brand, but a lot of times the videos don't even require the voice. Unless I'm directly talking about the brand, I can put music behind it. And it's funny because in my process of creating the video right for, let say, the brands that I'm working for the last thing I put in is the voice. It's the last thing I do, unless I'm doing a direct-to-camera like hey guys, this is an amazing product. Then it all happens together, right, and then the video editing happens and my voice is already there talking about it.  13:57 But a lot of times I'm not necessarily, or I'm doing a voiceover after the fact, and so, yeah, we become like the last part of the project, and so that's something to also be aware of. It's not that we're not important, we're very important, but you have to understand where in the chain of events that it happens. That's why people, when they cast, they want to cast typically like quickly, right, they want to find that voice and just put it into the video that's already been done, and then music and sound effects, because, again, like Tom you mentioned, we're typically the last part.  14:31 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, and from what I've noticed in my casting notices over the past decade or so is that the turnaround time for casting is usually about 48 hours, and then from the recording of it is probably another 48 hours. Sometimes it's even quicker than that. So usually that means if this project took six weeks or two months or whatever that means at most not. I'm not saying a week is spent on the voiceover, it's just that everything that needs to happen regarding the voiceover is probably a handful of hours within one week, and then that's it.  15:04 So the point is, bosses, is that if you are engaging in direct marketing strategies, like cold calls or emails, and you're doing your follow-up emails and reaching out on social media, like directly in sending the messages and stuff like that you have to manage your expectations. I was reading a study that since 2014, the return on cold calls and emails has dropped by 10% every year for the past 10 years. And guess what? 10% times 10 years equals 100%. So it doesn't mean they're not effective at all anymore. But now the expectation of them actually getting your email or answering your phone call and responding positively is between 1% and 3%. It is a very, very small percentage, which means also this is a numbers game.  15:49 - Anne (Host) Yeah, absolutely Absolutely, but it's not impossible.  15:52 - Tom (Guest) No, it's not impossible. You want to be smart about it.  15:55 - Anne (Host) Yeah, what I'm always telling people because I have a Boss Blast product and I know you also do a lot of educational courses on direct marketing. It's something that you need to understand. It's definitely a marathon, not a sprint, kind of a game, and the good thing about it is that once you do connect and once you're in front of the eyes of someone who has the power to hire you and award you the gig, typically you want to stay top of mind, and that's when you're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. You're talking about marketing. Staying top of mind is always a good thing. That's when they'll call you and say, hey, we want to extend this for another 13 weeks or we want to extend this again. So once you hook them, hopefully you keep them, and that's where the challenge is.  16:36 You know auditions. You know there's a need already. You audition and they cast because they're at that stage in the project where that's what they need. Right, they need that voice. But when you're direct marketing and you're reaching out, they may not have that need right away. They might think about you and say, oh okay, I like that voice. I don't have a need for her right now, but maybe let me put her to the side and let's when another campaign comes up that I think she's good for and I get that all the time when I'm on a few different rosters They'll contact me directly and say, hey look, I think you'd be a perfect voice for this campaign. Can you send me an audition? And typically, boom, that's good because it's a cold lead that turned into a warm lead and that is nice because I didn't have to really do much effort because I'm on his radar.  17:18 So when you're direct marketing, tom, the other important thing to understand is not only how it works right and understand and the expectations. It is how do you know who to contact right? And how do you contact them without being spammed? Because, guess what? We all get spam every single day. I get phone calls still that I don't pick up the phone. I get emails that are scammers, that are just junk email I don't even bother to look at. I see the subject line and I'm like nope, so I'm not going to be spamming. In today's world where it is getting increasingly hard. How do you do it right? That's the question, that's the golden question, right? How do you do it? How do you get their attention?  17:55 - Tom (Guest) Well, I've learned a couple of just some just brief bullet pointy bits of advice is be concise, be brief, be professional, but be you as much as you can If you have a very formal subject line or a very prim and proper paragraph. Hi, my name is this, I do this, I do that, I can do this, and every sentence starts with the word I Delete Immediate turn off.  18:21 - Anne (Host) It's about how you can help the company.  18:23 - Tom (Guest) Yes, it's how you can bring value to their company. It's not about you Solve their pain point. Exactly, solve the pain point. What can you do for them? But don't make it I, I, I Make it about. You need this, you need this. Your problem is this your problem can be solved with my services as a voice actor, but at the same time, be you as much as you can be you, be as personable as you can. Funny goes a long way and showing that you know about them.  18:54 - Anne (Host) Yes, because it becomes like these are two strangers meeting in the night, right? So what makes that meeting more agreeable? Well, if I have done my homework, it's kind of like God the olden days, tom, when I used to go on interviews for like corporate jobs. Right, you wouldn't go into a corporate interview for a job and not know anything about the company that you're applying to.  19:15 Right, I mean that was the biggest no-no was no. You've got to understand what does the company make, what are the products that it makes and what is it that is attracting you to this company? So if you can offer some insight into their company and why it is that you feel it would be a beneficial partnership, then definitely reaching out with how you can solve their pain point and showing that you're interested in them and not just like I, I, I and I'm a great voice actor and listen to my talent. It's not about you at all. It's about how you can help them right to sell their product or to sell their brand.  19:48 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, your job is a problem solver. Yeah, don't treat them like a cash register and your email is a crowbar.  19:54 - Anne (Host) Oh, I like that, that visual.  19:57 - Tom (Guest) You know he's kind of like give me the money to say the things have you said that before?  20:00 - Anne (Host) Did you just grab that from there? That was great.  20:02 - Tom (Guest) I've said it in various permutations of that over the years. But yeah, yeah, I've also said we try to treat voice seekers like ATMs. Yeah, because we only see them as these machines that can give us money. Yeah, absolutely. These are people that have their own needs and challenges.  20:17 They are human beings that have their own struggles creative, logistical, financial, cultural struggles. And if voiceover is 1.5% of their thought processes in any given project, 5% of their thought processes in any given project, you want that 1.5% to be maybe the easiest and most entertaining, 1.5% to make everything a little bit easier.  20:38 - Anne (Host) Don't give them homework. That's what I always say. Don't give them homework, Don't make them try to research you. Don't give them homework. Just be there to let them know that you can help them and that you have a genuine interest in their company, in their product, in wanting to serve them and to help them, to make their jobs easier. Really, I think that's the point, and anybody that's worked in the corporate world knows that they want their job to be easier. They're working for someone, typically, and they have a lot on their plate. They don't want to be bogged down by, oh my God, a big, lengthy email that is going on and on and on and self-serving.  21:14 I know that when I get emails and I like to talk a lot. I think that's the problem, Tom. As voice actors, we like to talk right, and sometimes that transcribes right into our emails. I used to write these emails that were like paragraphs, paragraphs. Nobody has time for that and I would love to write paragraphs of an email and I would spend so much time.  21:32 I remember when I broke down what I did in my corporate job. I spent the majority of my time writing customer service emails and they were long emails and the funny thing is, I would get offended if people three quarters of the way down, if I put an important fact and then somebody wrote me back and then asked me a question about that fact, I'd be like how could you not have read that email? I spent so much time on it Because people don't have the capacity right to read a big, long, horribly boring email and also you are encroaching upon their time. I get so many emails a day, Tom, we've talked about this before. I have like a million some odd unread emails in my Gmail on purpose, because I want to see the marketing. I want to see the marketing that people are doing, and you just have to understand that you're taking up a part of their day, and so I think you need to like, deserve that.  22:18 And you need to prove that you're worthy of that 1.5% of their time. And so that means, if they don't want to hear from you again, if you've presented yourself in a way where they don't have a need for you, or maybe you I don't know, maybe you're all self-serving and they're like I don't need this they need to have a way to not get those emails from you ever, ever again. So there are legal ramifications of you reaching out to somebody unsolicited, typically in any direct marketing. That is the next thing that I want to bring up.  22:46 Tom, in any direct marketing you have to have permission to send an email. And if you don't necessarily have direct permission, you have to offer them a way to opt out of the emails that you send to them. And that includes, when you send that cold email, something at the bottom that says if you would like to unsubscribe to these emails, give them a way to opt out of that. And you also must provide and this is just good business measure you have to provide legally an address of your company on your emails. So when you send those emails out, you have to give them a way to opt out of the emails and you have to give them your business address.  23:23 - Tom (Guest) Absolutely, because you don't want the internet to give you the ban. Hammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. Manhammer if you're sending out hundreds or thousands of these emails at the same time. So I've heard recently that the era of spray and pray is over, but it's not just for all the marketing value pain points provide value stuff, but it's also because of the internet, as we as a people has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty desperate has just had it with all of these spammy carbon copy templaty. Desperate, aggressive, obnoxious, self-aggrandizing emails that we're getting over and over again, because we can't tell what's real and what's fake anymore when the phone rings or when an email comes in or when we see a social media post. So people are cracking down and being like we have no tolerance for this. I would rather send less emails that have more value than more emails that have more value than more emails that have value, and hope for the occasional hit.  24:13 - Anne (Host) And again, if you are sending out mass emails and that's a whole nother thing with direct marketing, not many people have the provision to send out thousands of emails at one time because most, unless you're paying for that service, which I do for the boss blast I pay for that service. I am able to send out lots of emails at a time. It's done through a server which doesn't do it all at once. And also the people that I'm sending it to have already opted in to me, marketing to them, and still, at the very least, I have to put. Here's a way to opt out and here's my business address and they only allow from my domain, the, and they only allow from my domain, the VO Boss domain. So anybody that buys a Boss Blast, you are actually getting a list that has already opted in to be marketed to and they have all the legal rights to opt out if they want.  24:58 Most people don't, because they've opted in for a reason, but it's something that I would say most voice actors can't afford because you typically pay by the contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact, so contact. So my server, which is ActiveCampaign, I pay by the contact. So I have a few hundred thousand contacts that I pay for in order to be able to send emails out to that, and that's not something necessarily that every voice actor has the budget to do, which is why I offered the Boss Blast.  25:22 And this isn't all just about the Boss Blast, but it's anytime you're talking about doing direct mail, quality over quantity unless you have the provision to send out quantity, which is something that I pay thousands of dollars for, and I also make sure I got all the legal ramifications for people to opt out if they need to. But you need to do the same thing on a smaller scale, and direct marketing, I feel, is one of the methods of marketing that needs to be implemented so that in combination with indirect marketing. And you've got to do it. Gosh Tom, how much percentage of your time would you say? I would say 80%, if not a little bit more when things are lean.  25:58 - Tom (Guest) Yeah, when things are slow I immediately go to market, absolutely. But when things are busy, I have learned also to keep doing my marketing. So there, aren't as many slow periods.  26:09 So, yes, direct marketing can and should be part of a balanced breakfast. That is, every voice actor. If you can get quality representation audition through your agents and managers, if you understand how to feed the algorithms of online casting sites, use them to keep the flow of auditions coming in. Direct marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful, value-driven emails. Indirect marketing with thoughtful value-driven blog posts, blog entries and social media posts. You should be doing, ideally, some combination of all of these as often as you can to maximize your opportunities to get the voiceover auditions that you desire.  26:47 - Anne (Host) And always be cultivating your next client, even if you're super busy. I think that's the most important thing that I've learned over the many years that I've been in the business here is always be cultivating your next client, because your clients, even if you've had them for years and years and years, they're never guaranteed. And the best in the business will say the same. So good conversation, Tom. I think we could talk about marketing in 500 more episodes.  27:10 But I think this is a great start guys to understand that it is a necessary evil and it's not scary. It's really not scary. You need to embrace the challenge that is marketing and, again, I like to look at everything as a challenge. That's what gives me joy in my business and also one of the reasons why I did create the VL Boss Blast was because I didn't have a ton of time to do the indirect marketing, although I do that a lot too. So everybody needs a balanced breakfast of both indirect and direct marketing. And, tom, thank you again for always being such a golden nugget of wisdom in my podcast.  27:42 - Tom (Guest) Thank you, I love it.  27:44 - Anne (Host) I'm going to give a great big shout out to our sponsor, ipdtl. Yes, you too can be a boss, a real boss and find out more at IPDTLcom. You guys have an amazing week and we'll see you next time. Bye.  27:59 - Speaker 2 (Announcement) Join us next week for another edition of VO Boss with your host, Anne Ganguzza, and take your business to the next level. Sign up for our mailing list at vobosscom and receive exclusive content, industry revolutionizing tips and strategies and new ways to rock your business like a boss. Redistribution with permission. Coast to coast connectivity via IPDTL.