Podcasts about visitor experience

How can museums increase revenue without charging mandatory admission? Andy Povey is joined by Andrew Given, CEO of Queer Britain, who shares how Queer Britain's Pay What You Can model generated more than three times the previous donation income while making the museum more accessible to visitors. The discussion covers fundraising strategies, donor psychology, visitor data, inclusive storytelling, partnerships, and why cultural organisations should embrace experimentation and innovation.   Topics Discussed The founding story of Queer Britain Building the UK's national LGBTQ+ museum Operating without government funding Diversifying museum income streams Pay What You Can admission strategy Tripling visitor donations through voluntary giving Donor psychology and visitor behavior Making museums more accessible Collecting visitor data through online bookings Using visitor insights to improve experiences Community engagement and volunteer programs LGBTQ+ history and cultural preservation Museum storytelling and exhibitions Partnerships with major cultural institutions Innovation in museums and visitor attractions Lessons for nonprofit fundraising Sustainable museum business models Improving the visitor journey Simplifying online ticket booking The future of museum innovation   Show references:    Andrew Given - Chief Executive at Queer Britain Museum https://queerbritain.org.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/queer-britain/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/awtgiven/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your guest host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

**Jeep Talk Show Interview with Dottie from Jeep Babes Enthusiast Club Michigan – 2026 Show & Shine Charity Event** hi-de-ho boys and girls, it's time for another Jeep Talk Show! We're joined again by Dottie, dedicated community leader and outdoor enthusiast from Michigan, where she helps drive the Jeep Babes Enthusiast Club. With a passion for the off-road lifestyle and a heart for service, she turns trail rides and a love of Jeeps into powerful movements for good—coordinating large-scale charity fundraisers while enjoying the trails. Dottie was last on the show August 22, 2025. Catch that earlier interview for more background. This time we dig into the upcoming 2026 Show & Shine, the club's growth (around 4,700 members in the Michigan chapter with a wider network), inclusivity for all Jeeps (and beyond), raffles, vendors, family-friendly vibes, and plenty of laughs—including Dottie's unique last name (Drips), death wobble jokes, skid plate talk, ArmorLite floors, and real talk about asking for help and community. Chris from the Jeep Talk Show is MCing the event again. Look for his gray Gladiator (on 35s with a 2" lift) and give him a hard time about those Jeep Talk Show stickers! **Event Details** 2026 Show & Shine – Charity Event for HAVEN Saturday, September 26, 2026 Birch Run Speedway, 10945 Dixie Hwy, Birch Run, MI (right off I-75) Starts ~11 AM Vehicle Show & Shine entry: $25 donation (includes passengers) General admission: $5 (kids 12 & under free) 100% of proceeds go to HAVEN (supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence) Expect vendors, raffles (including nice prizes and a vacation package), show & shine awards, food/drinks, family-friendly activities, and good facilities. Open to Jeeps of all types (stock Renegades and Compasses welcome for the social side), plus other vehicles and motorcycles. Plan to stay for the day if you're in the show & shine. Website: jbmichigan.com (think JB Weld!) Facebook: Search Jeep Babes Enthusiast Club Michigan Chapter or facebook.com/JeepBabesMichigan Vendors still welcome—reach out via the site or Facebook. Come support a great cause, show off your ride, and enjoy the community. **Timestamps** (approximate based on conversation flow) 00:00 Opening Intro and Guest Introduction 01:32 Addressing Domestic Abuse and Male Help-Seeking 07:28 Discussing the Unusual Last Name "Drips" 09:32 Club Chapter Overview and Membership Numbers 11:28 Member Activities and Community Events 13:27 Virtual Gatherings and Online Community Interaction 14:32 Inclusive Off-Road Events and Beginner Support 16:45 Gladiator Bed Angle Concerns and Peer Observation 18:09 Explaining Jeep Death Wobble vs Wheel Shake 19:07 Event Logistics and Jeep Gear Recommendations 23:38 Raffle Prizes and Giveaway Details 25:03 Prize Details: Vacation Package and Flooring Accessories 28:36 Family Activities and Entertainment at the Event 29:33 September Weather Considerations for the Event 31:09 Regional Climate Comparisons and Off-Road Experiences 33:41 Desert Heat and Off-Road Challenges in Phoenix 34:50 Event Facilities, Restrooms, and Track Layout 36:17 Vehicle Parking, Photo Opportunities, and Entry Fees 37:05 Visitor Experience, Vendor Participation, and Event Information 39:37 Event Access, Parking Policies, and Attendance Guidelines 40:41 Inclusive Invitation to All Vehicle Enthusiasts 43:17 Show Awards and Trophy Details 44:51 Off-Road Problem Solving and Recovery Techniques 46:16 Social Media Channels and Online Presence 47:35 Preparing for the Event with Past Media 47:58 Potential Jeep Babes Calendar Concept 49:24 Closing Remarks and Legal Disclaimer **Key Highlights** - Jeep Babes Michigan: women-led enthusiast club focused on community, empowerment, trail rides, and major charity work (especially HAVEN). - Massive annual Show & Shine expanding to more vehicles while keeping the Jeep heart. - Practical advice mixed with humor: skid systems that make you feel invincible, ArmorLite floors that handle spills and weather, death wobble vs. steering shake, and why asking for help is a strength. - Chris returns as MC—find the gray Gladiator with Jeep Talk Show logos. - 100% of event money goes to charity. $25 entry is a donation that puts your Jeep on display. ArmorLite Flooring Systems for Jeep Gladiator / Wrangler https://amzn.to/4yKKZH8 MotoBilt / Motobilt Skid Plate Systems for Jeep Gladiator https://amzn.to/4fm13aB Jeep Floor Mats & Drain Plugs (complementary protection) https://amzn.to/4bw6fGD Visit our website: https://jeeptalkshow.com/ Watch/Listen on Spotify https://jeeptalkshow.com/spotify Join our Discord Server: https://jeeptalkshow.com/discord Subscribe to our newsletter: https://jeeptalkshow.com/newsletter Help Support the show via Patreon: https://jeeptalkshow.com/patreon

Andy Povey is joined by Lawrence Roots to discuss the UK Theme Park Awards, industry trends, and his Guinness World Record challenge to visit every nominated UK theme park. Plus, Josh Haywood from Crealy shares his excitement for this year's awards and the park's latest developments. Topics Discussed The growth and purpose of Theme Park Network How the UK Theme Park Awards recognise excellence New award categories introduced for 2026 Lawrence Roots' Guinness World Record challenge Visiting all 37 nominated UK theme parks in 15 days Trends shaping the UK theme park industry Brand activations and IP partnerships The importance of presentation standards and landscaping Why staff are the key to exceptional guest experiences Theme Park Personality, Rising Star and Outstanding Achievement awards The value of public voting Continuous investment in attractions and guest experiences Josh Haywood on Crealy's new attractions for 2026 Josh Haywood's Theme Park Personality nomination Behind the scenes at the start of Lawrence's record-breaking journey   Show references:    Lawrence Roots, Founder of UK Theme Park Awards https://www.ukthemeparkawards.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/ukthemeparkawards/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/lawrence-roots/   Theme Park Awards: How They Work and Why You Should Care - Lawrence Roots https://skipthequeue.fm/episodes/lawrence-roots   Josh Haywood - Board Director of Crealy Theme Park Resort https://www.crealy.co.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-haywood-68463630/   Voting in the 2026 UK Theme Park Awards is now open from the 20th July until the 28th August 2026. Register now to vote. https://www.ukthemeparkawards.com/register   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your guest host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

686. Part 1 of our interview with Joel Sharpton. Joel talks to us about Louisiana politics in 2026. Joel is a Ruston-based audio professional and progressive grassroots organizer who seamlessly blends media production with political advocacy. As the founder of Pro Podcasting Services and an expert in mobile workflows, Sharpton brings over a decade of podcasting experience to his community-focused media projects. He utilizes this production expertise to host and produce "We Are Louisiana Indivisible," a political podcast dedicated to amplifying the voices of regional activists and interviewing progressive candidates for state and local office. Working alongside organizations like Indivisible North Louisiana, Sharpton is actively engaged in grassroots organizing, voter mobilization, and hosting local civic rallies to push for democratic change across the state. Now available: Liberty in Louisiana: A Comedy. The oldest play about Louisiana, author James Workman wrote it as a celebration of the Louisiana Purchase. Now it is back in print for the first time in 222 years. Order your copy today! This week in the Louisiana Anthology. "The Elephant and the Whale." Alcee Fortier.     Compair Lapin went to get a very long and strong rope, then he got his drum and hid it in the grass. He took one end of the rope, and went to the elephant: “Mister, you who are so good and so strong. I wish you would render me a service; you would relieve me of a great trouble and prevent me from losing my money.”     The elephant was glad to hear such a fine compliment, and he said: “Compair, I shall do for you everything you want. I am always ready to help my friends.”     “Well,” said Lapin, “I have a cow which is stuck in the mud on the coast; you know that I am not strong enough to pull her out; I come for you to help me. Take this rope in your trunk. I shall tie it to the cow, and when you hear me beat the drum, pull hard on the rope. I tell you that because the cow is stuck deep in the mud.”     “That is all right,” said the elephant. “I guarantee you I shall pull the cow out, or the rope will break.”     Compair Lapin took the other end of the rope and ran towards the sea. He paid a pretty compliment to the whale, and asked her to render him the same service about the cow, which was stuck in a bayou in the woods. Compair Lapin's mouth was so honeyed that no one could refuse him anything. The whale took hold of the rope and said: “When I shall hear the drum beat I shall pull.”     “Yes,” said Lapin, “begin pulling gently, and then more and more.”     “You need not be afraid,” said the whale; “I shall pull out the cow, even if djabe were holding her.”     “That is good,” said Lapin; “we are going to laugh.” And he beat his drum.     The elephant began to pull so hard that the rope was like a bar of iron. The whale, on her side, was pulling and pulling, and yet she was coming nearer to the land, as she was not so well situated to pull as the elephant. When she saw that she was mounting on land, she beat her tail furiously and plunged headlong into the sea. The shock was so great that the elephant was dragged to the sea. “What, said he, what is the matter? that cow must be wonderfully strong to drag me so. Let me kneel with my front feet in the mud.” Then he twisted the rope round his trunk in such a manner that he pulled the whale again to the shore. He was very much astonished to see his friend the whale. “What is the matter,” said he. “I thought it was Compair Lapin's cow I was pulling.”     “Lapin told me the same thing. I believe he is making fun of us.”     “He must pay for that,” said the elephant. “I forbid him to eat a blade of grass on land because he laughed at us.”     “And I will not allow him to drink a drop of water in the sea. We must watch for him, and the first one that sees him must not miss him.”     Compair Lapin said to Bouki: “It is growing hot for us; it is time to leave.”     “You see,” said Bouki, “you are always bringing us into trouble.” This week in Louisiana history. July 10, 1941. Legendary jazz pianist and composer Jelly Roll Morton (born in New Orleans) died in Los Angeles. His musical innovations accelerated the development of jazz. This week in New Orleans history. July 10, 1927: Tom Benson, the future owner of the Saints and Pelicans, was born in New Orleans, later becoming one of the city's most prominent philanthropists This week in Louisiana. very Island ' Jungle Gardens & TABASCO' Factory Tour Daily Tours (year‑round) Avery Island, LA 70513 Websites: tabasco.com, junglegardens.org Avery Island offers two of Louisiana's most iconic attractions: the TABASCO' Brand Factory Tour, where McIlhenny Company has made its world‑famous pepper sauce for over 150 years, and Jungle Gardens, a 170‑acre botanical preserve filled with ancient oaks, wildlife, and historic structures. A single ticket grants access to both experiences: TABASCO Factory Tour: A self‑guided walk through the museum, pepper greenhouse, barrel warehouse, salt‑mine diorama, and the bottling line, with admission priced at $15.50 for adults, $12.50 for children, and 10% off for seniors/veterans. Jungle Gardens: A scenic drive‑through and walk‑through garden featuring live oaks, bamboo groves, wildlife viewing, and the historic Buddha statue. Joint admission with the TABASCO' tour is $15.50 for adults and $12.50 for children. Visitor Experience: The combined ticket includes access to the museum, greenhouse, conservation exhibits, Country Store, Restaurant 1868, and the full 170‑acre garden system. Postcards from Louisiana. Doreen.  Listen on Apple Podcasts.  Listen on audible. Listen on Spotify. Listen on TuneIn. Listen on iHeartRadio. The Louisiana Anthology Home Page. Like us on Facebook. 

Dynamic pricing can be one of the most powerful tools available to visitor attractions but only when it's used well. Andy Povey is joined by pricing expert Adriaan Van Der Hek to discuss the practical realities of dynamic pricing, how it benefits both attractions and visitors, and why getting your pricing strategy right can drive higher revenue, better attendance and happier guests. Topics Discussed What dynamic pricing really means for visitor attractions The evolution of dynamic pricing over the past two decades Balancing revenue optimisation with guest satisfaction Using demand forecasting to influence ticket pricing Common misconceptions about dynamic pricing How attractions can introduce dynamic pricing successfully The role of technology and online booking platforms Managing peak and off-peak demand Pricing strategies for different attraction types Using data to make smarter commercial decisions Encouraging advance bookings through pricing Practical advice for attractions considering dynamic pricing   Show references:    Adriaan van der Hek - COO of HomeBuddy -  AI, SaaS, Data, Tech, Advertising, Dynamic Pricing, Operations, E-Commerce, Lead Generation https://contractor.homebuddy.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/homebuddycom/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajvdhek/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn.   Credits: Written by Sami Entwisle  Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwisle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

Swaner Preserve and EcoCenter Director of Visitor Experience and Exhibits Hunter Klingensmith has an update on upcoming events, Egyptian Theater Director Randy Barton has details about the theater being hacked out of tens of thousands of dollars, Park City Manager Adam Lenhard and Deputy City Manager Jodi Emery preview this week's city council meeting and Heber Valley Chamber Public Relations Manager Jessica Turner has an update on upcoming events.

In this episode of ADK Talks, we head to Tupper Lake to celebrate 20 years of The Wild Center with Nick Gunn, Director of Marketing and Visitor Experience.Part natural history museum, part science center, part aquarium, part outdoor adventure, The Wild Center has become one of the Adirondacks' signature destinations. Nick shares how the idea grew from post-ice storm interpretive exhibits into a nationally recognized museum rooted in the Adirondack landscape.We talk about why Tupper Lake became the perfect home, how Wild Walk changed everything, and why experiences like Wild Lights, Forest Music, Raquette River Roll, and the new Trolls: Save the Humans exhibit help visitors connect with nature in playful, memorable ways.What you'll hear in this episodeHow The Wild Center began and why Tupper Lake was the right fit.Why Wild Walk helped launch the museum into a new era of national recognition.How Wild Lights turned winter into one of The Wild Center's busiest seasons.What visitors can expect from Thomas Dambo's giant recycled-material trolls.Nick's insider tips for visiting The Wild Center, exploring Tupper Lake, and finding his favorite Adirondack walk.Resources:The Wild Center The Wild Center in Tupper LakeTROLLS: Save the Humans at The Wild CenterWild Lights at The Wild CenterThe Wild Center 20th Anniversary CelebrationThomas DamboProduced by NOVA

The Inis Cealtra Visitor Experience at the Rectory in Mountshannon has won a prestigious national award. The popular Clare visitor attraction, which was developed by Clare County Council, was successful in the Adaptation and Re-Use category at this years Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland Awards. Designed by McCullough Mulvin Architects, the award acknowledges the high-quality restoration and repurposing of the historic building into a flagship visitor attraction for the Lough Derg region. Acting Senior Executive Officer Tourism, Festivals & Events, Clare County Council, Theresa Hughes Lannon says it's a fitting recognition of what the centre offers.

In this Summer Special of Skip the Queue, guest host and attractions industry journalist Owen Ralph is joined by three theme park operators for a closer look at their new offerings for 2026. Lawrence Mancey discusses Paultons Park's £12 million themed area Valgard, the largest ever investment at the UK park, also home to Peppa Pig World. He explains how the viking theme was a ‘no-brainer', why the family-run park likes creating its own IP, and also tells us about Paultons' embryonic holiday park plans. Blackpool Pleasure Beach's James Cox highlights the famous park's new £8.7 million Aviktas thrill ride and its long-running Hot Ice show. He also explains how the team is trying to revitalise neglected areas of the seaside site and why its operating season is longer than most other British parks. Finally, Hogne Høstmælingen from Hunderfossen in Norway – celebrating its 40th anniversary this season – tell us about the Lillehammer park's troll roots and much more. We hear how an IP first introduced in 2014 has spawned three attractions including a rollercoaster, Thea Award-winning simulator experience and the new dark ride Rally Flåklypa. Topics Discussed Developing a new themed area Working with intellectual properties Increasing Paultons' appeal to older kids The flexibility of lodge accommodation Vs a hotel Choosing a new thrill and where to site it Revitalising a forgotten corner of Blackpool Pleasure Beach How an eye-catching ride can be an ‘attraction' even to those that don't ride it Live entertainment and its role in broadening a park's offering Squeezing a dark ride into a remarkably small building How Hunderfossen invested in a movie to extend an IP's life A unique troll-themed dining experience An enchanting winter park offer   Show references:    Guest host: Owen Ralph International Editor, Kirmes & Park International Regular contributor, Blooloop/World's Fair www.kirmesparkrevue.de www.wordsandattractions.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/owen-ralph/   Lawrence Mancey Marketing and Technology Director, Paultons Park, UK www.paultonspark.co.uk/themed-worlds/valgard-realm-of-the-vikings https://796f0761.flowpaper.com/GemiKirmes0726E150/#page=24   James Cox Director of Marketing, Sales and PR, Blackpool Pleasure Beach Resort, UK www.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/aviktas www.blackpoolpleasurebeach.com/shows/hot-ice   Hogne Høstmælingen General Manager, Hunderfossen, Norway  www.hunderfossen.no/en/ www.boldmove-nation.com/rally-fl%C3%A5klypa   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn.   Credits: Written by Owen Ralph  Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwisle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

This Day in Maine Wednesday, June 24th, 2026

In this episode of Skip the Queue, guest host Olly Reed from Navigate is joined by Rob Comley of Chester Zoo and Simon Townsend of the Eden Project to discuss the growing impact of weather forecasting apps on visitor attractions. They discuss how simple weather icons can influence consumer behaviour, with misleading rain forecasts causing significant drops in attendance even when poor weather never materialises. Rob shares the story behind Chester Zoo's campaign calling for improvements to how weather forecasts are displayed, a movement now supported by more than 100 attractions and businesses across the UK. They discuss changing visitor behaviour, the importance of value for money, the rise of last-minute booking habits, and the role weather perception plays in decision-making. The episode also looks ahead to the campaign's upcoming discussions with the Met Office and highlights exciting developments at Chester Zoo and the Eden Project. Topics Discussed The impact of weather app icons on visitor attraction attendance How weather perception influences consumer decision-making Chester Zoo's campaign for improved weather forecast presentation The economic impact of inaccurate weather perceptions on attractions Industry support from attractions, farm shops, events, and hospitality businesses Visitor behaviour changes and the rise of last-minute bookings The relationship between weather forecasts and value for money expectations Differences in how weather affects Chester Zoo and the Eden Project The role of the Met Office and discussions around forecast communication Alternative weather forecasting models used in Europe The importance of accurate communication rather than challenging weather science How attractions adapt to changing weather patterns and climate conditions Future plans for the weather forecast campaign New developments at Chester Zoo including Heart of Africa and The Reserve lodges The Eden Project's 25th anniversary celebrations and Eden Sessions Optimism for the future of the visitor attraction sector   Show references:    Guest Host: Olly Reed - Marketing Director of Navigate https://www.navigate.agency/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/navigate-agency https://www.linkedin.com/in/olly-reed/   Guests:  Simon Townsend of Eden Project http://www.edenproject.com https://www.linkedin.com/company/eden-project/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-townsend-10137914/ Rob Comley - Senior Policy and Advocacy Manager at Chester Zoo http://www.chesterzoo.org https://www.linkedin.com/company/chester-zoo/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/robcomley/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your guest host is Olly Reed. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

"You cannot personally make sure every visitor has a great time... but you can make sure at least one visitor has a great experience." Episode Chapters [03:36] Shifting from high attendance to quality visitor experiences [05:33] Complexities of social carrying capacities explored [08:50] Relying on technology and reservation systems [10:22] Zion crowding and alternative options [13:45] Addressing transportation infrastructure and shuttle loops [16:20] Preventing staff burnout and managing morale [19:13] Unintended consequences of park management choices The busy summer season is officially here. We always asked for more people to discover the beauty of parks and conservation, and they certainly are! In this episode, Jody Mayberry welcomes back retired director of South Carolina State Parks, Phil Gaines, to discuss the realities of managing capacity, infrastructure, and visitor expectations during the peak summer months. Phil and Jody trace how park philosophies have shifted from the old-school mentality of "packing them in" to a modern focus on preserving the social and resource carrying capacities of our public lands. They share personal stories from Zion and South Carolina's Lake Jocassee to highlight the balance between technology, transportation infrastructure, and personal connection. This episode serves as a guide for park supervisors on how to protect staff morale and prevent rangers from burning out on continuous traffic control. Read the blog for more from this episode. Resources www.parkleaders.com https://parkleaders.com/about/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/theparkleaders/  

On this episode of Destination on the Left, I talk with Michael Herrmann, President and Founder of Tour Connect AI. Michael shares how operating a bike rental company in Sydney, Australia, led him to develop a technology to help DMCs become more efficient. You'll hear why Michael believes AI won't replace the human touch in tourism, it will amplify creativity, improve collaboration, and drastically improve efficiency. What You Will Learn in This Episode: How Michael transitioned from a technology consultant to founding a bike tour company in Australia, then creating Tour Connect AI Why understanding regional differences and customer behaviors is critical when adapting across global tourism markets How using AI allows tour operators to focus more on human-centric tasks, such as building relationships Why rapid response to itinerary requests significantly increases booking conversion rates How AI-driven collaboration supports efficiency and customer experience How Tour Connect uses AI integration to build better customization Why AI in tourism is set to democratize advanced technology for organizations of all sizes From Hands-On to Digital Solutions Michael began his career as a technology consultant with Ernst and Young, but a leap to starting a bicycle tour company in Sydney, Australia, opened his eyes to the complexities of tourism operations. His American roots and European business model faced unique challenges in the Australian market, though travelers stayed longer and booking patterns were drastically different. This experience exposed Michael to the inefficiencies in the travel industry, especially for DMCs and inbound tour operators who juggle thousands of suppliers and use outdated processes. These operational bottlenecks, combined with the travel industry's dependence on static annual contracts, paper forms, and institutional knowledge, inspired Michael to found Tour Connect, which aims to streamline collaboration through technology and, eventually, AI. Breaking Down AI-Powered Itinerary Building The industry conversation about AI usually focuses on generic tools like ChatGPT. Michael stresses that genuine transformation only comes from integrating AI into the actual business environment. Tour Connect's approach uses a company's real supplier contracts, negotiated rates, and established relationships. By tapping into existing booking systems, AI can pull all necessary information—dates, guest counts, preferences, allergies—and compose an accurate, bookable itinerary with remarkable speed and consistency. Collaboration and Speed Speed isn't just a matter of convenience, it's a key driver of conversion. Failing to respond to a group itinerary request within 24 hours can result in a devastating 40% drop in the likelihood of booking. With travelers often sending concurrent requests to operators in various destinations, it's the fastest, most polished reply that captures their imagination first, building anticipation and attachment to a particular place. AI-powered workflow automation enables faster supplier confirmations, quote turnarounds, and itinerary delivery, helping teams to focus on relationship-building rather than firefighting. Resources: Website: www.tourconnect.ai LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-herrmann-768ab6/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tourconnect-llc/ We value your thoughts and feedback and would love to hear from you. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming platform to let us know what you want to hear more o​f. Here is a quick tutorial on how to leave us a rating and review on iTunes!

Andy Povey is joined by Debs Griffin, Director of Sundown Adventureland, to explore a family-run theme park shaped by three generations of women. The conversation covers its growth into a leading destination for young families, alongside insights on expansion, operations, and maintaining a clear focus on imaginative play for children under 10.   Topics Discussed Origins and growth of Sundown Adventureland Three generations of female leadership Expansion into rides, play areas, and accommodation Challenges in staffing and operations Importance of hands-on leadership Focus on under 10s and free play experiences Balancing growth while maintaining family values   Show references: Debs Griffin, Director of Sundown Adventureland https://sundownadventureland.co.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/sundown-adventureland/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/debora-griffin-924161120/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

The Administrative Office of the Courts is using GIS to integrate security systems, enhance safety and improve the visitor experience. Kyle Yoder, threat management branch chief within the Judiciary Security Division, said GIS technology is helping the agency integrate applications that support incident management, public safety and physical security operations. Speaking with GovCIO Media & Research at Esri's FedGIS Conference in Washington, D.C., Yoder said the office is replacing disparate systems with a more unified platform. The updated approach enables virtual walkthroughs of court facilities to enhance visitor experience while allowing employees to familiarize themselves with safety procedures and equipment in a virtual environment.

In this episode, Andy Povey is joined by Matthew Philpott, Head of Marketing at Bristol Zoological Society to discuss the transformation of Bristol Zoological Society and the move from Bristol Zoo Gardens to the larger, conservation focused Bristol Zoo Project. They explore how the new site prioritises animal welfare through natural habitats, the challenges of relocating animals including gorillas, and the creation of immersive environments like the African Forest. The episode also touches on changing visitor expectations and the evolving role of zoos in global conservation.   Key Topics Discussed Transformation from city zoo to large scale conservation site Closure and legacy of Bristol Zoo Gardens Vision behind Bristol Zoo Project and modern zoo design Animal welfare and natural habitat creation Relocation of animals and logistical challenges Gorilla troop move and preparation process Design and features of African Forest habitat Multi species environments and enrichment Balancing visitor expectations with new experiences Branding and retaining the Bristol Zoo name Conservation breeding programmes and global collaboration Role of zoos in wildlife conservation Visitor engagement through immersive design and play Data driven decision making in attractions Industry trends and future zoo regulations Education and inspiring conservation action   Show references:   Matthew Philpott, Head of Marketing at Bristol Zoological Society https://bristolzoo.org.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/bristol-zoo-project/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-p-b82395b3/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

What does it take to guide visitors through histories that are genuinely contested and emotionally charged? In this episode, I'm joined by Brandon Dillard, Director of Historic Interpretation and Audience Engagement at Thomas Jefferson's Monticello, and Kelsie Paul, Director of Learning and Visitor Experience at the Frick Pittsburgh, to explore how both institutions have reimagined their guided experiences in response to the complicated legacies of their central historical figures.We talk about the long evolution of interpretation at Monticello, from the site's earliest tours to the integration of slavery and the story of Sally Hemings into the core narrative. Kelsie shares the process behind the Frick's "Gilded, Not Golden" tour - a ground-up redesign of Clayton's 30-year-old house tour that involved consultants, an advisory board, difficult internal conversations and a willingness to start from scratch.We also dig into what it means to support guides doing this work: hiring for empathy, investing in training, facilitating ongoing dialogue, and empowering guides to be facilitators rather than lecturers. And we reflect on the civic role of historic sites in a polarised moment, including how Monticello is approaching the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.Whether you're working at a historic house, leading tours in any kind of museum or cultural space, or thinking about how to hold space for complexity in your guided programmes, I think you'll find a great deal to take away from this conversation.The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on PatreonEpisode Links:LinkedIn Kelsie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelsie-paul-39561b199/Frick website: www.thefrickpittsburgh.orgFrick Instagram: @frickpittsburghRecent article on Clayton: https://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/places-we-love-clayton/LinkedIn Brandon: www.linkedin.com/in/brandonmdillardMonticello website: https://www.monticello.org/Monticello Instagram: @tjmonticelloShow Links:✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngagerOr pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

EPIC The Irish Emigration Museum has completed a €2 million investment upgrade of its visitor experience, with a strong focus on cutting-edge AV technology and immersive digital storytelling. This is the most significant transformation since the museum opened, further cementing its status as a world-class cultural attraction and a global leader in storytelling. The new galleries, opening on 26 March 2026, expand the exhibition footprint by 2,000 square feet and introduce a suite of new digital installations and interactive systems. Visitors will now experience newly expanded galleries with more immersive, multi-sensory storytelling, exciting new technology, and a deeper emotional connection to Ireland's emigration story. "EPIC is a digital-led experience, so we spend plenty of time and energy checking out the latest AV technology," said Luke Smith, Director of Technology at EPIC. "Whilst our technology has served visitors well to date, we wanted to add a new level of interactive and immersive experiences. Our new galleries use cutting-edge technology to deliver great storytelling and emotionally rich experiences. I am really looking forward to seeing how our visitors react – and I believe they will be surprised and delighted." Advanced AV Systems Powering the New Galleries At the heart of the new Welcome Gallery is a custom-built interactive installation featuring approximately 9 square metres of Absen microLED, with a 1.2mm pixel pitch. The display is integrated into a bespoke table exhibit and paired with over 250 metres of programmable LED neon tubing, creating a dynamic, immersive light sculpture. "Using microLED instead of conventional screens allows for tailored layouts, bezel-free display and wider viewing angles," Smith explained. "Combined with the LED lighting, it creates a significantly more engaging experience that surrounds the visitor from the moment they arrive." Sensor-Driven Interaction in 'Isle of the Senses' The new Isle of the Senses gallery introduces Nexmosphere LiDAR sensors, enabling highly precise, proximity-based triggering of audio and visual experiences. "These sensors are more configurable and precise than infra-red or camera-based systems," said Smith. "They integrate with BrightSign media players and allow us to deliver highly responsive, personalised interactions." The same system is used to activate modern interpretations of Pepper's Ghost illusions, blending a 19th-century theatrical technique with contemporary sensor technology and custom programming. Ireland's Largest Interactive LED Floor A key centrepiece of the upgrade is a 28 square metre interactive LED floor, the largest of its kind in any Irish museum or attraction. Featuring a 1.92mm pixel pitch, the floor allows visitors to interact with animated vessels representing 1,500 years of Irish emigration – from early sailing currachs to modern aircraft, transforming EPIC's iconic Sea and Sky sculptural installation into an immersive, multi-media experience "Our visitors will walk across the floor and interact with ships and planes as they travel," Smith added. "There are also a few surprises built into the experience – including a hidden 'Easter egg' for those who look closely." Technology Partnerships All hardware was supplied and configured by Rockbrook, Ireland's leading museum AV technology provider. Interactive and digital content was developed by Glasgow-based studio ISO, one of the world's foremost digital experience design teams. A Digital-Led Museum Experience "EPIC has always used technology in a surprising and immersive way to bring Irish emigration stories to life," said Aileesh Carew, CEO. "This upgrade raises the bar for visitor experiences all over the world, combining design, technology and storytelling in a way that is both innovative and deeply human." Alongside the gallery upgrades, EPIC has also launched a new museum app to support accessibility and multilingual engagement, further extending its audience-first, digi...

In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Donna Speed, CEO of We The Curious, to explore how curiosity can transform visitor experiences. Following major challenges, including COVID-19 and a devastating fire in 2022, the organisation rebuilt with a strong community-first approach, taking science directly to people through outreach while the venue was closed. The conversation focuses on a shift from traditional, answer-led exhibitions to question-led experiences, highlighted by the “Project What If” exhibition built from over 20,000 public questions. Donna shares how co-creation, inclusivity, and audience-led design are reshaping engagement, and how attractions can balance education and entertainment, remain relevant, and inspire curiosity in new ways. Key Topics Discussed Designing visitor experiences around curiosity rather than content The transformation and rebrand of We The Curious Community-led decision making and co-creation Recovery and resilience after the 2022 fire Outreach strategies during closure and post-pandemic recovery Project What If and question-led exhibition design Differences between interactive science centres and traditional museums Inclusion and representation in science and learning spaces The role of curiosity in lifelong learning Balancing entertainment and education in attractions Building trust and relevance with audiences Collaboration across the attractions and museum sector The evolving role of museums in society Leadership through crisis and change Inspiring future generations through engagement and accessibility   Show references:   Donna Speed - CEO of We The Curious https://wethecurious.org/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/donna-speed-15252916/ https://www.wethecurious.org/news-blog/we-curious-reopening-project-what-if Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

250 years ago, the British evacuated Boston: driven out by cannon that had traveled 300 miles from Fort Ticonderoga. But where did the plan for those cannons take shape?In this Revisited episode, we return to our conversation with Garrett Cloer, now Program Manager for Interpretation and Visitor Experience at Saratoga National Historical Park, to explore the Longfellow House–Washington's Headquarters National Historic Site in Cambridge, Massachusetts.This Georgian mansion served as George Washington's home and headquarters for nearly nine months during the Siege of Boston. In this house, Washington forged the Continental Army and plotted the moves that liberated the city. Garrett reveals the house's Loyalist origins, life inside during the siege, and how poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow later transformed it into a literary landmark.A companion to Episode 436 on Henry Knox's Noble Train of Artillery. Show Notes: https://www.benfranklinsworld.com/194RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODES

250 years ago, the British evacuated Boston: driven out by cannon that had traveled 300 miles from Fort Ticonderoga. But where did the plan for those cannons take shape?In this Revisited episode, we return to our conversation with Garrett Cloer, now Program Manager for Interpretation and Visitor Experience at Saratoga National Historical Park, to explore the Longfellow House–Washington's Headquarters National Historic Site in Cambridge, Massachusetts.This Georgian mansion served as George Washington's home and headquarters for nearly nine months during the Siege of Boston. In this house, Washington forged the Continental Army and plotted the moves that liberated the city. Garrett reveals the house's Loyalist origins, life inside during the siege, and how poet Henry Wadsworth Longfellow later transformed it into a literary landmark.A companion to Episode 436 on Henry Knox's Noble Train of Artillery. Show Notes: https://www.benfranklinsworld.com/194RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODES

On this episode of Destination on the Left, I talk with Dan Flores, Head of Tourism at Satisfi Labs, all about using AI in the travel industry. We discuss how conversational artificial intelligence can help drive revenue and operational efficiency, and Dan offers real examples of where this AI is being deployed and how it has had real impacts. We also talk about adoption rates of AI within the tourism industry, and Dan shares a framework for approaching this new technology in your organization. What You Will Learn in This Episode: How Dan Flores transitioned from a long career in tourism operations to leading strategy in conversational AI at Satisfi Labs Why understanding operational efficiency is important when adopting new technology in the tourism industry What conversational AI can do to improve visitor experience and drive revenue How changes in consumer behavior and expectations are encouraging the tourism industry to embrace AI-powered solutions Why it's important to identify pain points and define goals before implementing AI technology in your organization Examples of real-world successful AI adoption, including collaborative projects like Connected City and integrated chatbots for DMOs, attractions, and tour operators How a strategic plan and incremental steps can help tourism businesses navigate the AI landscape The Power of Conversational AI in Tourism The tourism industry has always relied heavily on storytelling and connection, and Satisfi Labs' conversational AI platform gives destinations the ability to amplify their story and interact with customers in real-time. Unlike static websites and traditional ads, conversational AI provides dynamic interactions, it can answer questions, qualify leads, and even facilitate transactions 24/7, in dozens of languages. This delivers not only improved customer service but also a seamless path from inquiry to purchase. Driving Operational Efficiency and Revenue Operational efficiency is a cornerstone in the tourism sector, where staff often wear a lot of hats and resources are limited. Satisfi Labs' conversational agents can automate routine inquiries, freeing up staff to focus on high-value tasks and sales. Using AI turns businesses into round-the-clock operations without needing to scale human teams. A case in point is Dan's personal experience using a Satisfi Labs chatbot to resolve a ticket issue for a college basketball game in minutes, a process he expected would take much longer. The technology goes beyond simple customer service. AI-driven agents are also powerful tools for lead qualification, routing sales queries to the right person after gathering the right information, resulting in improved conversion rates and more effective use of resources. Making AI Work for You AI adoption is happening at a breakneck pace, so fast that Dan warns companies risk being left behind if they don't get on board. He suggests tourism businesses create a strategic AI plan that identifies departmental pain points and assesses if AI can offer a solution, then they can decide whether to build in-house or engage a vendor, and start small. This framework helps organizations prioritize efforts, minimize risk, and ensure resources are being used where they matter most. A key piece of advice is top-down adoption. Leadership should empower staff with resources, education, and freedom to experiment with AI tools, ensuring the culture embraces innovation. Resources: Website: www.satisfilabs.com LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-flores2022/ LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/satisfi-labs/ We value your thoughts and feedback and would love to hear from you. Leave us a review on your favorite streaming platform to let us know what you want to hear more o​f. Here is a quick tutorial on how to leave us a rating and review on iTunes!

Table Mountain National Park is updating its visitor procedures, including the use of indemnity forms and a new digital ID scanning system at key entrances. Many visitors are expressing concerns about delays and confusion at park gates. Bongani Mnisi, Cape Region General Manager for TMNP, speaks to John Maytham on the show to clarify which areas still require indemnity forms, explain how the ID scanning system works, and outline what visitors can expect when entering the parks. The conversation addresses listener questions and explores how SANParks balances governance, compliance, and a smooth visitor experience. Presenter John Maytham is an actor and author-turned-talk radio veteran and seasoned journalist. His show serves a round-up of local and international news coupled with the latest in business, sport, traffic and weather. The host’s eclectic interests mean the program often surprises the audience with intriguing book reviews and inspiring interviews profiling artists. A daily highlight is Rapid Fire, just after 5:30pm. CapeTalk fans call in, to stump the presenter with their general knowledge questions. Another firm favourite is the humorous Thursday crossing with award-winning journalist Rebecca Davis, called “Plan B”. Thank you for listening to a podcast from Afternoon Drive with John Maytham Listen live on Primedia+ weekdays from 15:00 and 18:00 (SA Time) to Afternoon Drive with John Maytham broadcast on CapeTalk https://buff.ly/NnFM3Nk For more from the show go to https://buff.ly/BSFy4Cn or find all the catch-up podcasts here https://buff.ly/n8nWt4x Subscribe to the CapeTalk Daily and Weekly Newsletters https://buff.ly/sbvVZD5 Follow us on social media: CapeTalk on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@capetalk CapeTalk on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ CapeTalk on X: https://x.com/CapeTalk CapeTalk on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CapeTalk567 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

AI is changing how travelers plan trips—and destination websites can't afford to fall behind. In this episode, Adam Stoker sits down with Michelle Donogan, CMO of Mindtrip, to discuss how conversational AI is reshaping the visitor experience, why AI should be woven into the entire website (not tucked into a corner), and how destinations can use traveler conversations to uncover content gaps and drive smarter marketing decisions. If you're thinking about the future of your destination's digital experience, this episode is a must-listen. Subscribe to our ⁠⁠⁠⁠newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠! The ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ is a part of the ⁠⁠⁠⁠Destination Marketing Podcast Network⁠⁠⁠⁠. It is hosted by Adam Stoker and produced by Brand Revolt. If you are interested in any of Brand Revolt's services, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ or visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. To learn more about the Destination Marketing Podcast network and to listen to our other shows, please visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠www.thedmpn.com⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you are interested in joining the network, please email ⁠⁠⁠⁠adam@thebrandrevolt.com⁠⁠⁠⁠.

For those listeners in the United States, a Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Thanks for being part of Experience by Design podcast and making putting on the show worthwhile and rewarding. And for those of you in Canada, Happy Belated Thanksgiving. And for those in other parts of the world, I hope you can take a moment to give thanks for whatever you feel thankful.Giving thanks is not just something that should be reserved for one day a year. Giving gratitude should be something that we all do everyday. I know that I am trying to do so, especially for the small things in life. Gratitude is a practice like any other practice, and the more we do it, the better we can get at it. Not that I am good at it yet, but I am definitely trying to get better.Today's episode is about giving thanks for those who served in such a way that they were awarded the highest honor in the US military: The Medal of Honor. I welcome Alexandra Rhue (SVP, Museum Engagement and Strategic Initiatives from the National Medal of Honor Museum) and Michael Lewis (Executive Creative Director from G&A) to talk about their work in creating and developing the National Medal of Honor Museum, located in Arlington, TX.We talk about the 3500 plus stories behind each person who was awarded the medal, but how each story comes down to the same elements of courage, sacrifice, commitment, integrity, citizenship, and patriotism. A major element of the museum is to inspire all visitors to recognize how these elements are in all of us as well. In other words, we talk about the hero that is within us all by exploring the stories and lives of those who have been recognized for their supreme valor and in many instances ultimate sacrifice. We talk about the symbolism that is layered throughout the National Medal of Honor Museum, starting with the very architecture of the structure. We explore the ways that US society has evolved in terms of recognizing and discussing military conflict and service. Alex and Michael emphasize the ultimate goal is not just recognition, but getting people to leave with a renewed sense of service to their own communities in whatever capacity they can, and to live the values embodied in the Medal of Honor. We also discuss the design and visitor experience of a museum and memorial. We explore the balance between immersive technology and traditional museum elements, aiming to create an emotional and personal experience. Michael and Alexandra explained the use of multimedia, including large-scale images, VR installations, and interactive projections, while emphasizing the importance of technology that enhances rather than distracts from the visitor journey. Alexandra and Michael emphasized the importance of placing visitors' perspectives at the center of storytelling, incorporating both human narratives and technological elements to enrich the visitor experience.Alexandra Rhue: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandra-rhue/National Medal of Honor Museum: https://mohmuseum.org/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mohmuseum/Twitter/X: https://x.com/MohMuseumFacebook: National Medal of Honor Museum | Arlington TX | FacebookMichael Lewis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mgelewis/G & A: https://gallagherdesign.com/G & A Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/g.ampersand.a/G & A LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/g-a-strategy-and-design/ 

Almost 6,000 people have visited the Inis Cealtra Visitor Experience in Mountshannon since its opening. Newly-released figures show a total of 5,784 visitors have passed through the gates of the visitor centre from the day it opened its doors on June 25th to the day it closed for the season on October 26th. During this period, 419 boat trips to the island were booked while the facility's social media brand awareness campaign enjoyed a reach of 166,300 people. Local Fine Gael Councillor Pat Burke says he's pleased with what the data shows.

In today's episode, recorded live at the National Science and Media Museum during the Association for Science and Discovery Centres Annual Conference 2025, we're exploring what's on the horizon for Science and Discovery Centres right now, over the next 5 years, and looking even further ahead to the next 25 years.It's a throwback to the break between Seasons 6 and 7, when Paul Marden was invited to the ASDC National Conference in Bradford, at the height of the Bradford City of Culture celebrations. It was Paul's first time in Bradford, but not his first ASDC conference, and this one was an absolute standout.At the end of the first day, Paul gathered a brilliant panel of delegates to unpack the conference's central theme: the Now, Next, and Future for Science Centres.Joining Paul on the panel were:Jo Quinton-Tulloch, Director, National Science and Media MuseumDavid Jones, Community Engagement Manager, International Centre for LifeNatalie Whitehead, Founder and Director, Exeter Science CentreStephen Breslin, CEO, Glasgow Science Centre and Chair of the Association for Science and Discovery Centres ASDCShaaron Leverment, CEO, Association for Science and Discovery Centres ASDCLet's head back to Bradford for a fascinating conversation about innovation, engagement, and the long-term vision shaping the future of science discovery in the UK. Show references:  Jo Quinton-Tulloch - Director, National Science and Media Museumhttps://www.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jo-quinton-tulloch-22503791/David Jones, Community Engagement Manager, International Centre for Lifehttps://www.life.org.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-jones-031570198/Natalie Whitehead, Founder and Director, Exeter Science Centrehttps://exetersciencecentre.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-whitehead-17323ba9/Stephen Breslin, CEO, Glasgow Science Centre and Chair of ASDChttps://www.glasgowsciencecentre.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-breslin-b331135b/Shaaron Leverment - CEO, Association for Science and Discovery Centres ASDChttps://www.sciencecentres.org.uk/events/asdc-conference-2025/https://www.linkedin.com/in/shaaron-leverment-74b53b50/ Skip the Queue is brought to you by Crowd Convert. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

This week on Skip The Queue we explore the science behind ensuring good visitor experiences, by looking at the role data has to play in thisJoining me are two experts in this field, Professor Jim Deegan, economist, tourism policy expert, and founder of the National Centre for Tourism Policy Studies at the University of Limerick, and Ernesto Sánchez- Batista, an expert in destination planning and digital transformation.Together, they have been instrumental in developing a new Tourism Data Dashboard. This has been utilised to transform the visitor experience at The Cliffs of Moher, one of  Ireland's most iconic landmarks.Let's find out how, and what they've achieved.  We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth.Download your FREE copy here: https://pages.crowdconvert.co.uk/skip-the-queue-playbookSkip the Queue is brought to you by Crowd Convert. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn.Show references:  Jim Deegan - PHD Scholar of Cliffs of Moer Projecthttps://www.cliffsofmoher.ie/https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41721501.htmlhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jim-deegan-94438b2a/Jim Deegan is the Director of the National Centre for Tourism Policy Studies (NCTPS), University of Limerick(UL), a member of the Economics Department( Head of department, 2011-2016) ) and Professor of Tourism Policy. He is an economist by training and his research interests and publications are in all facets of public policy for tourism. Jim is a highly cited author in tourism economics/policy papers and he acts as a referee for all the top rated international journals in tourism and has served on editorial boards of numerous journals that have included the Cornell Quarterly and Tourism Economics. As director of the NCTPS at UL he has raised more than €6 million through project research and philanthropic donations  that has funded research scholarships for more than 25 students to study tourism at postgraduate level. Jim has undertaken project research on behalf of the World Bank, The European Commission, Eurostat, The Irish Government, Failte Ireland, Tourism Ireland, the Marine Institute, the Law Society and many other public and private sector organisations across the world. He was the project lead for the team that delivered Ireland's first Tourism Satellite Account in 2004.Jim has served on numerous public and private sector committees/boards on tourism issues over the last 25 years and was a founding member of the Business Tourism Forum of Failte Ireland  from 2004 and was appointed to the Board of The National Tourism Development Authority( Failte Ireland) by the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport in 2013. He is currently a board member of the Birr Scientific and Heritage Foundation. Jim was the founding chairman and a shareholder in Treaty Radio Ltd that was sold to UTV PLC for €15.7million in 2002. Ernesto Batista Sánchez - PHD Scholar of Cliffs of Moer Projecthttps://www.ul.ie/business/departments/department-economics/research/national-centre-tourism-policy-studieshttps://www.linkedin.com/in/ebats/Ernesto Batista Sánchez is a PhD researcher at the National Centre for Tourism Policy Studies (NCTPS), Kemmy Business School, University of Limerick, Ireland. Prior to this, he worked as an Assistant Professor in Tourism programmes at the University of Holguín, Cuba. He graduated with a first-class honours MA in International Tourism from the University of Limerick in 2020 and holds a PhD from the University of Holguín (2024). His research explores the application of technology and data analysis in tourism. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

WMAL GUEST: JOSH BRONSON (Director of Education, Programs, & Visitor Experience at National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund) WEBSITE: NLEOMF.org SOCIAL MEDIA: X.com/NLEOMF Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow Podcasts on Apple, Audible and Spotify Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @JGunlock, @PatricePinkfile, and @HeatherHunterDC Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Website: WMAL.com/OConnor-Company Episode: Friday, October 31, 2025 / 7 AM HourSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In the 7 AM hour, Larry O’Connor and Patrice Onwuka discussed: WMAL GUEST: GREGG PEMBERTON (Head of DC's Police Union) on Extending the District's Juvenile Curfew WMAL GUEST: JOSH BRONSON (Director of Education, Programs, & Visitor Experience at National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund) on the Law Enforcement Museum Staying Open During the Shutdown WMAL GUEST: WINSOME EARLE-SEARS (Lt. Governor of Virginia & GOP Nominee for Governor) on Tuesday's Election Where to find more about WMAL's morning show: Follow Podcasts on Apple, Audible and Spotify Follow WMAL's "O'Connor and Company" on X: @WMALDC, @LarryOConnor, @JGunlock, @PatricePinkfile, and @HeatherHunterDC Facebook: WMALDC and Larry O'Connor Instagram: WMALDC Website: WMAL.com/OConnor-Company Episode: Friday, October 31, 2025 / 7 AM HourSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Paul Marden and Andy Povey head to the VAC 2025 Conference at the Queen Elizabeth II Centre in Westminster, London, to explore the evolving world of attraction retail and e-commerce.With special participation from Skip the Queue's founding host, Kelly Molson, the conversation delves into practical steps for creating seamless, authentic and profitable online experiences.Joining him are industry experts Stephen Spencer, Director of Stephen Spencer and Associates, and Simon Jones, Managing Director of Navigate Agency, to discuss how attractions can create e-commerce gift shops that truly enhance the visitor experience.They discuss the Visitor Attraction Playbook and explore how storytelling, sustainability and smart integration can transform your retail offer from an afterthought into a powerful brand extension.This episode also marks the launch of our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth.Download your FREE copy here: https://pages.crowdconvert.co.uk/skip-the-queue-playbook Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Andy Povey.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Show references:  Stephen Spencer, Ambience Director of Stephen Spencer and Associateshttps://www.stephenspencerassociates.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/customerexperiencespecialist/Simon Jones, Managing Director of Navigate Agencyhttps://www.navigate.agency/https://www.linkedin.com/in/simontjones/Kelly Molson, Skip the Queue's founding host, Agency Advisor, Kelly Molson Consultinghttps://www.kellymolson.co.uk/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/ The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

Paul Marden heads to the AVEA conference in front of a LIVE audience to find out why gift shops are such an important part of the attraction mix. Joining him is Jennifer Kennedy, Retail Consultant, JK Consulting and Michael Dolan, MD of Shamrock Gift Company. They discuss why your gift shop is an integral part of your brand and why it needs to be just as good as the experience you have on offer. This coinsides with the launch of our brand new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide To Going Beyond The Gift Shop', where you can find out exactly how to improve your online offering to take your ecommerce to the next level. Download your FREE copy here:  https://pages.crowdconvert.co.uk/skip-the-queue-playbookBut that's not all. Paul walks the conference floor and speaks to:Susanne Reid, CEO of Christchurch Cathedral Dublin, on how they are celebrating their millennium anniversary - 1000 years!Charles Coyle, Managing Director, Emerald Park, on how they are bringing AI integrations to enhance their booking processesRay Dempsey, General Manager of The Old Jamerson Distillery on how they offering more accessible touring optionsIt's a mega episode and one you'll not want to miss. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Show references:  Jennifer Kennedy — Founder, JK Consultinghttps://jkconsultingnyc.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-kennedy-aba75712/Michael Dolan — Managing Director, Shamrock Gift Companyhttps://www.shamrockgiftcompany.com/Catherine Toolan — Managing Director, Guinness Storehouse & Global Head of Brand Homes, Diageohttp://diageo.comhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinetoolan/Máirín Walsh — Operations Manager, Waterford Museumhttps://www.waterfordtreasures.com/Dean Kelly — Photography & Visitor Experience Specialist https://www.wearephotoexperience.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/dean-kelly-1259a316/Charles Coyle — Managing Director, Emerald Parkhttps://www.emeraldpark.ieSusanne Reid — CEO, Christ Church Cathedral Dublinhttp://www.christchurchcathedral.iehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/susannereid/Ray Dempsey — General Manager, Jameson Distilleryhttps://www.jamesonwhiskey.com/en-ie/visit-our-distilleries/jameson-bow-street-distillery-tour/https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-dempsey-37a8665a/ Transcription: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast that tells the stories behind the world's best attractions and the amazing people that work in them. In today's episode, I'm at the AVEA 2025 conference in Waterford, Ireland, and we're talking about gift shop best practices. With Jennifer Kennedy from JK Consulting, a tourism and retail consultancy. And Jennifer led retail at Guinness Storehouse for more years than she would care to mention, I think. And we're also here with Michael Dolan, MD of Shamrock Gift Company, who has brought along the most amazing array of gift shop merchandise, which I'm sure we'll get into talking a little something about later on. And I've also got an amazing live audience. Say hello, everybody.Everyone: Hello.Paul Marden: There we go. So we always start with icebreaker that I don't prepare the two of you. Now this is probably a very unfair question for the pair of you, actually. What's the quirkiest souvenir you've ever bought? I can think of those little, the ones that you get in Spain are the little pooping santas.Jennifer  Kennedy: I have a thing for Christmas decorations when I go on travel, so for me, there always tends to be something around having a little decoration on my tree every year. That if I've had one or two holidays or I've been away, that has some little thing that comes back that ends up on the tree of Christmas. I have a lovely little lemon from Amalfi that's a Christmas decoration, and so you know, so a little kind of quirky things like that.Paul Marden: Michael, what about you? Michael  Dolan: One of our designers who will remain nameless? She has a thing about poo. So everyone brings her back to some poo relation. Paul Marden: Sadly, there's quite a lot of that around at the moment, isn't there? That's a bit disappointing. First question then, what's the point of a gift shop? If I put that in a more eloquent way, why are gift shops such an important part of the attraction mix?Jennifer  Kennedy: Okay, it was from my point of view, the gift shop in an attraction or a destination is the ultimate touch point that the brand has to leave a lasting memory when visitors go away. So for me, they're intrinsically important in the complete 360 of how your brand shows up— as a destination or an attraction. And without a really good gift shop and really good product to take away from it, you're letting your brand down. And it's an integral piece that people can share. From a marketing point of view, every piece of your own product that's been developed, that's taken away to any part of the world can sit in someone's kitchen. It can be in multiple forms. It can be a fridge magnet. It could be a tea towel. It could be anything. But it's a connection to your brand and the home that they visited when they chose to be wherever they're visiting. So for me, I'm very passionate about the fact that your gift shop should be as good as everything else your experience has to offer. So that's my view on it. Michael  Dolan: Sometimes it's neglected when people create a new visitor attraction. They don't put enough time into the retail element. I think that's changing, and a very good example of that would be Game of Thrones in Banbridge. We worked with them for two years developing the range, but also the shop. So the shop reflects the... I actually think the shop is the best part of the whole experience. But the shop reflects the actual whole experience.  Jennifer  Kennedy: The teaming.Michael  Dolan: The teaming. So you have banners throughout the shop, the music, the lighting, it looks like a dungeon. All the display stands have swords in them, reflecting the theme of the entrance.Jennifer  Kennedy: Yeah, it's a good example of how a brand like that has incorporated the full essence and theme of why they exist into their physical retail space.Paul Marden: They definitely loosened a few pounds out of my pocket. Michael  Dolan: Another good example is Titanic Belfast. So they spent 80 million on that visitor attraction, which was opened in 2012, but they forgot about the shop. So the architect who designed the building designed the shop that looked like something out of the Tate Gallery. Yeah, and we went and said, 'This shop is not functional; it won't work for our type of product.' They said, 'We don't have anything in the budget to redevelop the shop.' So we paid a Dublin architect to redesign the shop. So the shop you have today, that design was paid for by Shamrock Gift Company. And if you've been in the shop, it's all brass, wood, ropes. So it's an integral part of the overall experience. But unfortunately... you can miss the shop on the way out.Paul Marden: Yeah, it is very easy to walk out the building and not engage in the shop itself. It's a bit like a dessert for a meal, isn't it? The meal's not complete if you've not had a dessert. And I think the gift shop experience is a little bit like that. The trip to the experience isn't finished.  If you haven't exited through the gate. Michael  Dolan: But it's the lasting memories that people bring back to the office in New York, put the mug on the table to remind people of when they're in Belfast or Dublin to go to. You know, storehouse or Titanic. So those last impressions are indelibly, you know, set.Paul Marden: So we've already said the positioning of the shop then is super important, how it feels, but product is super important, isn't it? What product you fill into the shop is a make or break experience? How do you go about curating the right product? Michael  Dolan: Most important is authenticity. You know, it has to be relevant to the visitor attraction. So it's not a question of just banging out a few key rings and magnets. So I brought you along some samples there. So we're doing two new ranges, one for Titanic and one for the Royal Yacht Britannia, and they're totally different. But reflect the personality of each attraction.Paul Marden: Absolutely.Michael  Dolan: I mean, a good example, we worked together or collaborated together on many, many projects in Guinness. But we also worked in St. Patrick's Cathedral.Jennifer  Kennedy: Yeah.Michael  Dolan: You were the consultant.Jennifer  Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. So I suppose, again, from the product point of view. Yeah, if you can root product in why the experience exists. So in that example, a cathedral is a great example of how you can create really great product by utilising. Well, the main reason people are there is because this amazing building exists and the historic elements of it. So I suppose to make it real, some examples of products that connected with the audience in that environment are things like a little stone coaster. But the stone coaster is a replica of the floor you're standing on. So I suppose the other balance in attractions is realistic price points and realistic products. So there's no point in creating a range of products that's outside the price point of what your visitors are prepared to pay. So it's that fine balance of creating product that connects with them, which is, I'm using the cathedral as an example because you've got architraves, you've got stained glass windows, you've got stunning tiles. So all the elements of the fabric of that building. Can be utilised to create really beautiful products, but castles, you know, cathedrals, all of those sorts of spaces.Jennifer  Kennedy: When we start talking about product, always we go to, 'why are we here?' And also the storytelling elements. There's some beautiful stories that can, I can give you another really great example of a product that was created for another cathedral, which was... So in cathedral spaces, there's all these stunning doors that run the whole way through, like they're spectacular; they're like pieces of art in their own right. And every one of them has a very unique ornate key that unlocks each door. So one of the products that did one of the cathedrals was we wanted to create a ring of brass keys with replicas of all the keys in the cathedral. But as we were progressing, we forgot at the start— it was like we forgot to tell them to scale them down. They weren't the same size as all the keys in the cathedral. So it was a very intrinsically specific gift to this particular cathedral. And it's been used ever since as kind of the special gift they give to people who come to visit from all over the world. They get quite emotional about this particular gift because it's like this is the actual replica of all the keys to all the doors in the cathedral.Jennifer  Kennedy: So it's a product that's completely born. It can never be replicated anywhere else. And it's completely unique to that particular space. And I think that's the power of, for me, that's what authenticity feels and looks like in these environments. It has to be connected to the fabric of why you exist.Paul Marden: Yeah, so I was at Big Pit in Wales six months ago, I think it was. Museums Wales are redeveloping all of their gift shops and they are going through exactly that process that you're talking about, but bringing it back to the place itself because all, I think, it's six of their museums, the gift shops had much the same set of product. They described it as, you know, you were just walking into a generic Welsh gift shop with the dressed lady.Jennifer  Kennedy: And it's hard— like it really takes an awful lot of work— like it doesn't just happen, like you really have to put a lot of thought and planning into what our product should and could look like. And then, when you've aligned on with the team of people managing and running these businesses, that this is the direction you want to take, then it's the operational element of it. It's about sourcing, MOQs, and price, and all of that stuff that comes into it. Minimum order quantities.Michael  Dolan: That's where we come in. So, you know, we met Jennifer in St. Patrick's and we met Liz then, we met the Dean. So we really sat around and talked about what were the most important elements in the cathedral that we wanted to celebrate in product.Michael  Dolan: And St. Patrick obviously was the obvious number one element. Then they have a harp stained glass window. And then they have a shamrock version of that as well. So they were the three elements that we hit on. You know, it took a year to put those three ranges together. So we would have started out with our concept drawings, which we presented to the team in St. Patrick's. They would have approved them. Then we would have talked to them about the size of the range and what products we were looking at. So then we would have done the artwork for those separate ranges, brought them back in to get them approved, go to sampling, bring the samples back in, then sit down and talk about pricing, minimum order quantities, delivery times.Michael  Dolan: So the sample, you know, so that all goes out to order and then it arrives in about four or five months later into our warehouse. So we carry all the risk. We design everything, we source it, make sure that it's safely made, all the tests are confirmed that the products are good. In conformity with all EU legislation. It'll be in our warehouse and then it's called off the weekly basis. So we carry, we do everything.  So one stop shop. Paul Marden: So the traction isn't even sitting on stock that they've invested in. We know what we're doing and we're quite happy to carry the risk. So one of the things we were talking about just before we started the episode was the challenges of sourcing locally. It's really important, isn't it? But it can be challenging to do that.Jennifer  Kennedy: It can. And, you know, but I would say in recent years, there's a lot more creators and makers have come to the fore after COVID. So in kind of more... Specifically, kind of artisan kind of product types. So things like candles are a great example where, you know, now you can find great candle makers all over Ireland with, you know, small minimum quantity requirements. And also they can bespoke or tailor it to your brand. So if you're a museum or if you're a, again, whatever the nature of your brand is, a national store or whatever, you can have a small batch made. Which lets you have something that has provenance. And here it's Irish made, it's Irish owned. And then there's some, you know, it just it gives you an opportunity.Jennifer  Kennedy: Unfortunately, we're never going to be in a position where we can source everything we want in Ireland. It just isn't realistic. And commercially, it's not viable. As much as you can, you should try and connect with the makers and creators that they are available and see if small batches are available. And they're beautiful to have within your gift store, but they also have to be the balance of other commercial products that will have to be sourced outside of Ireland will also have to play a significant role as well.Máirín Walsh: I think there needs to be a good price point as well. Like, you know, we find that in our museum, that, you know, if something is above 20, 25 euro, the customer has to kind of really think about purchasing it, where if it's 20 euro or under, you know, it's...Michael  Dolan: More of an input item, yeah.Máirín Walsh: Yes, exactly, yeah.Paul Marden: And so when it's over that price point, that's when you need to be sourcing locally again. Máirín Walsh: It's a harder sell. You're kind of maybe explaining a bit more to them and trying to get them to purchase it. You know, they have to think about it.Jennifer  Kennedy: But it's also good for the storytelling elements as well because it helps you engage. So I've often found as well that even train the teams and the customer service. It's actually a lovely space to have, to be able to use it as part of storytelling that we have this locally made or it's made in Cork or wherever it's coming from, that it's Irish made.Máirín Walsh: We have, what have we got? We've kind of got scarves and that and we have local— we had candles a few years ago actually. I think they were made or... up the country or whatever. But anyway, it was at Reginald's Tower and there were different kinds of candles of different attractions around and they really connected with your audience.Michael  Dolan: So 20% of our turnover would be food and all that is made in Ireland. Virtually all of that is sourced locally here in Ireland. And that's a very important part of our overall product portfolio and growing as well.Paul Marden: Is it important to serve different audiences with the right product? So I'm thinking... Making sure that there's pocket money items in there for kids, because often when they come to a museum or attraction, it's their first time they ever get to spend their own money on a transaction. Yeah, that would be their first memory of shopping. So giving them what they need, but at the same time having that 25 euro and over price point. To have a real set piece item is?Jennifer  Kennedy: I would say that's very specific to the brand. Paul Marden: Really? Jennifer  Kennedy: Yes, because some brands can't actually sell products or shouldn't be selling products to children. Paul Marden: Really? I'm looking at the Guinness items at the end of the table.Jennifer  Kennedy: So it depends on the brand. So obviously, in many of the destinations around Ireland, some of them are quite heavily family-oriented. And absolutely in those environments where you've got gardens, playgrounds or theme parks. Absolutely. You have to have that range of product that's very much tailored to young families and children. In other environments, not necessarily. But you still need to have a range that appeals to the masses. Because you will have visitors from all walks of life and with all perspectives. So it's more about having something. I'm going to keep bringing it back to it. It's specific to why this brand is here. And if you can create product within a fair price point, and Mairin is absolutely right. The balance of how much your products cost to the consumer will make or break how your retail performs. And in most destinations, what you're actually aiming to do is basket size. You want them to go away with three, four, five products from you, not necessarily one.Jennifer  Kennedy: Because if you think about it, that's more beneficial for the brand. I mean, most people are buying for gifting purposes. They're bringing things back to multiple people. So, if I'm able to pick up a nice candle and it's eight or 10 euros, well, I might buy three of them if it's a beautiful candle in a nice package. Whereas, if I went in and the only option available to me was a 35-euro candle, I probably might buy that, but I'm only buying one product. And I'm only giving that to either myself or one other person. Whereas, if you can create a range that's a good price, but it's also appealing and very connected to why they came to visit you in the first place, then that's a much more powerful, for the brand point of view, that's a much more... Powerful purchasing options are available to have a basket size that's growing.Michael  Dolan: We worked together in the National Stud in Kildare, so we did a great kids range of stationery, which worked really well. We've just done a new range for the GAA museum, all stationery-related, because they get a lot of kids. Again, we would have collaborated on that.Jennifer  Kennedy: And actually, the natural studs are a really nice example as well, because from even a textile point of view, you can lean into equine as the, so you can do beautiful products with ponies and horses. Yeah. You know, so again, some brands make it very, it's easy to see the path that you can take with product. And then others are, you know, you have to think harder. It's a little bit more challenging. So, and particularly for cultural and heritage sites, then that really has to be grounded in what are the collections, what is on offer in these sites, in these museums, in these heritage sites, and really start to unravel the stories that you can turn into product.Paul Marden: But a product isn't enough, is it?Jennifer  Kennedy: Absolutely not.Paul Marden: Set making, merchandising, storytelling, they all engage the customer, don't they?Jennifer  Kennedy: 100%.Paul Marden: Where have you seen that being done well in Ireland?Michael  Dolan: Get a store is the preeminent example, I would think. I mean, it's a stunning shop. Have you met Catherine too? Paul Marden: No, not yet. Lovely to meet you, Catherine.  Michael  Dolan: Catherine is in charge of getting the stories. Paul Marden: Okay. Any other examples that aren't, maybe, sat at the table? Game of Thrones is a really good example and Titanic.Michael  Dolan: Game of Thrones.  I think Titanic's good. The new shop in Trinity College is very strong, I think. So it's a temporary digital exhibition while they're revamping the library. They've done an excellent job in creating a wonderful new shop, even on a temporary basis.Jennifer  Kennedy: I would say Crowe Park as well. The GAA museum there has undergone a full refurbishment and it's very tailored towards their audience. So they're very, it's high volume, very specific to their... And the look and feel is very much in keeping with the nature of the reason why people go to Crowe Park. I would say the Irish National Asteroid as well. And Colmar Abbey, Cliffs of Moher. We've got some really great offers all over the island of Ireland.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. I was at W5 recently in Belfast and I think that is a brilliant example of what a Science Centre gift shop could be like. Because often there will be the kind of generic stuff that you'll see in any attraction— a notebook with rubber and a pencil— but they also had lots of, there were lots of science-led toys and engineering-led toys, so they had... big Lego section. It was like going into a proper toy shop. It was just a really impressive gift shop that you could imagine engaging a kid.Catherine Toolan: And if I could come in there for an example outside of Ireland, you've got the House of Lego in Billund. I don't know if anybody has been there, but they've got a customised range, which is only available. Really? Yes, and it's so special. They've got a really unique building, so the Lego set is in the shape of the building. They've got their original dock. But the retail store in that space, it's very geared towards children as Lego is, but also imagination play. So they've done a brilliant job on looking at, you know, the texture of their product, the colour of their product. And whilst it's usually geared to children, it's also geared to adult lovers of Lego. So it's beautiful. Huge tech as well. They've incredible RFID wristbands, which you get from your ticket at the beginning of the experience. So all of your photo ops and everything you can download from the RFID wristband. Very cool.Jennifer  Kennedy: Actually, I would say it's probably from a tech point of view, one of the best attractions I've been to in recent years. Like, it's phenomenal. I remember going there the year it opened first because it was fascinating. I have two boys who are absolutely Lego nuts. And I just— we went to the home of LEGO in Billund when it opened that year and I just was blown away. I had never experienced, and I go to experiences everywhere, but I've never, from a tech point of view and a brand engagement perspective, understood the nature, the type of product that they deliver. For me, it's, like I said, I tell everyone to go to Billund. Paul Marden: Really? We've got such amazing jobs, haven't we? However, as you're both talking, I'm thinking you're a bit like me. You don't get to go and enjoy the experience for the experience's own sake because you're looking at what everybody's doing.Jennifer  Kennedy: But can I actually just add to that? There's another one in the Swarovski Crystal in Austria.Paul Marden: Really?Jennifer  Kennedy: That is phenomenal. And in terms of their retail space, it's like, I like a bit of sparkle, so I'm not going to lie. It was like walking into heaven. And their retail offering there is world-class in that store. And the whole brand experience from start to finish, which is what you're always trying to achieve. It's the full 360 of full immersion. You're literally standing inside a giant crystal. It's like being in a dream. Right. A crystal, sparkly dream from start to finish. And then, every year, they partner and collaborate with whoever— designers, musicians, whoever's iconic or, you know, very... present in that year or whatever. And they do these wonderful collaborations and partnerships with artists, designers, you name it.Paul Marden: Sorry, Catherine, there you go.Catherine Toolan: Thank you very much. It's on my list of places to go, but I do know the team there and what they're also doing is looking at the premiumization. So they close their retail store for high net worth individuals to come in and buy unique and special pieces. You know, they use their core experience for the daytime. And we all talk about the challenges. I know, Tom, you talk about this, you know, how do you scale up visitor experience when you're at capacity and still make sure you've a brilliant net promoter score and that the experience of the customer is fantastic. So that is about sweating the acid and you know it's that good, better, best. You know they have something for everybody but they have that halo effect as well.  So it's really cool.Paul Marden: Wow. Thank you. I'm a bit of a geek. I love a bit of technology. What do you think technology is doing to the gift shop experience? Are there new technologies that are coming along that are going to fundamentally change the way the gift shop experience works?Jennifer  Kennedy: I think that's rooted in the overall experience. So I don't think it's a separate piece. I think there's loads of things out there now where you can, you know, virtual mirrors have been around for years and all these other really interesting. The whole gamification piece, if you're in an amazing experience and you're getting prompts and things to move an offer today, but so that's that's been around for quite some time. I'm not sure that it's been fully utilised yet across the board, especially in I would say there's a way to go in how it influences the stores in Ireland in attractions at the moment. There'll be only a handful who I'd say are using technology, mainly digital screens, is what I'm experiencing and seeing generally. And then, if there is a big attraction, some sort of prompts throughout that and how you're communicating digitally through the whole experience to get people back into the retail space. Paul Marden: Yeah, I can imagine using tech to be able to prompt somebody at the quiet times of the gift shop. Michael  Dolan: Yeah, also Guinness now you can order a pint glass with your own message on it in advance. It's ready for you when you finish your tour. You go to a locker and you just open the locker and you walk out with your glass. Catherine Toolan: Could I just say, though, that you just don't open a locker like it's actually lockers? There's a lot of customisation to the lockers because the idea came from the original Parcel Motel. So the locker is actually you key in a code and then when you open the customised locker, there's a Guinness quote inside it and your personalised glass is inside it. And the amount of customers and guests that we get to say, could we lock the door again? We want to actually open it and have that. whole experience so you know that's where I think in you know and one of the questions that would be really interesting to talk about is you know, what about self-scanning and you know, the idea of checkouts that are not having the human connection. Is that a thing that will work when you've got real experiences? I don't know. But we know that the personalisation of the engraved glasses and how we've custom designed the lockers— not to just be set of lockers— has made that difference. So they're very unique, they're colourful, they're very Guinnessified. And of course, the little personal quote that you get when you open the locker from our archives, make that a retail experience that's elevated. Paul Marden: Wow.Jennifer  Kennedy: But I would also say to your point on that, that the actual, the real magic is also in the people, in the destinations, because it's not like gift shops and destinations and experiences. They're not like high street and they shouldn't be. It should be a very different experience that people are having when they've paid to come and participate with you in your destination. So I actually think technology inevitably plays a role and it's a support and it will create lovely quirks and unusual little elements throughout the years.Paul Marden: I think personalisation is great.  Jennifer  Kennedy: And personalisation, absolutely. But the actual, like I would be quite against the idea of automating checkout and payouts in gift shops, in destinations, because for me... That takes away the whole essence of the final touch point is actually whoever's talked to you when you did that transaction and whoever said goodbye or asked how your experience was or did you enjoy yourself? So those you can't you can't replace that with without a human personal touch. So for me, that's intrinsically important, that it has to be retained, that the personal touch is always there for the goodbye.Dean Kelly: I'm very happy that you brought up the human touch. I'm a photo company, I do pictures. And all the time when we're talking to operators, they're like, 'Can we make it self-serve? Can we get rid of the staffing costs?' I'm like, 'I'm a photographer. Photographers take pictures of people. We need each other to engage, react, and put the groups together. No, we don't want the staff costs. But I'm like, it's not about the staff costs. It's about the customer's experience. So all day long, our challenge is, more so in the UK now, because we operate in the UK, and everybody over there is very, we don't want the staff.' And I think, if you lose the staff engagement, especially taking a picture, you lose the memory and you lose the moment. And photographers have a really good job to do, a very interesting job, is where to capture people together. And if you lose that person— touch point of getting the togetherness— You just have people touching the screen, which they might as well be on their phone.Paul Marden: And the photo won't look as good, will it? Anybody could take a photo, but it takes a photographer to make people look like they're engaged and happy and in the moment.Dean Kelly: Yeah, exactly, and a couple of other points that you mentioned— with the brand, personalisation, gamification, all that kind of cool, juicy stuff, all the retail stuff, people going home with the memory, the moment, all that stuff's cool, but nobody mentioned photos until Cashin, you mentioned photos. We've had a long conversation with photos for a long time, and we'll probably be still chatting for another long time as well. But photography is a super, super retail revenue stream. But it's not about the revenue, it's about the moment and the magic. Jennifer  Kennedy: Yeah, you're capturing the magic. Dean Kelly: Capturing it. And fair enough that what you guys do at Shamrock is very interesting because you talk to the operators. You kind of go, 'What gifts are going to work for your visitors?' And you turn that into a product. And that's exactly what we do with all the experiences. We take pictures.Dean Kelly: But what's your demographic saying? What's your price points? What's your brand? What's your message? And let's turn that into a personalised souvenir, put the people in the brand, and let them take it home and engage with it.Paul Marden: So... I think one of the most important things is how you blend the gift shop with the rest of the experience. You were giving a good example of exiting through the gift shop. It's a very important thing, isn't it? But if you put it in the wrong place, you don't get that. How do you blend the gift shop into the experience?Jennifer  Kennedy: Well, I would say I wouldn't call it a blend. For me, the retail element of the brand should be a wow. Like it should be as invaluable, as important as everything else. So my perspective would be get eyes on your retail offering sooner rather than later. Not necessarily that they will participate there and then.Jennifer  Kennedy: The visual and the impact it has on seeing a wow— this looks like an amazing space. This looks like with all these products, but it's also— I was always chasing the wow. I want you to go, wow, this looks amazing. Because, to me, that's when you've engaged someone that they're not leaving until they've gotten in there. It is important that people can potentially move through it at the end. And, you know, it depends on the building. It depends on the structure. You know, a lot of these things are taken out of your hands. You've got to work with what you've got. Jennifer  Kennedy: But you have to work with what you've got, not just to blend it, to make it stand out as exceptional. Because that's actually where the magic really starts. And it doesn't matter what brand that is. The aim should always be that your retail offering is exceptional from every touch point. And it shouldn't be obvious that we've spent millions in creating this wonderful experience. And now you're being shoehorned into the poor relation that was forgotten a little bit and now has ten years later looks a bit ramshackle. And we're trying to figure out why we don't get what we should out of it.Michael  Dolan: And it has to be an integral part of the whole experience.Jennifer  Kennedy: Yeah, and I think for new experiences that are in planning stages, I've seen that more and more in recent years. Now, where I was being called to retrofix or rip out things going, this doesn't work, I'm like, okay, well, we have to retro do this. Now, when people are doing new builds or new investments into new spaces, I'm getting those calls at the planning stages where it's like, we've allocated this amount of space to retail. Do you think that's enough? And I don't think I've ever said yes, ever. At every single turn, I'm like... No, it's not enough. And, you know, what's your anticipated football? Oh, that's the numbers start to play a role in it. But it's not just about that. It's about the future proofing. It's like what happens in five years, 10 years, 15? Because I've been very lucky to work in buildings where it's not easy to figure out where you're going to go next. And particularly heritage sites and cultural heritage. Like I can't go in and knock a hole in the crypt in Christchurch Cathedral. But I need a bigger retail space there.Jennifer  Kennedy: The earlier you start to put retail as a central commercial revenue stream in your business, the more eyes you have on it from the get-go, the more likely it is that it will be successful. Not now, not in five years, not in ten years, but that you're building blocks for this, what can become. Like it should be one of your strongest revenue streams after ticket sales because that's what it can become. But you have to go at it as this is going to be amazing.Catherine Toolan: I think it's important that it's not a hard sell and that's in your face. And, you know, that's where, when you think about the consumer journey, we always think about the behavioural science of the beginning, the middle, and the end. And people remember three things. You know, there's lots of other touch points. But if retail is a really hard sell throughout the experience, I don't think the net promoter score of your overall experience will, you know, come out, especially if you're, you know, and we're not a children's destination. An over 25 adult destination at the Guinness Storehouse and at our alcohol brand homes. But what's really important is that it's authentic, it's really good, and it's highly merchandised, and that it's unique. I think that uniqueness is it— something that you can get that you can't get anywhere else. You know, how do you actually, one of the things that we would have done if we had it again, we would be able to make our retail store available to the domestic audience, to the public without buying a ticket. So, you know, you've got that opportunity if your brand is the right brand that you can have walk-in off the high street, for example.Catherine Toolan: So, you know, there's so many other things that you can think about because that's an extension of your revenue opportunity where you don't have to come in to do the whole experience. And that is a way to connect the domestic audience, which is something I know a lot of the members of the Association, AVEA are trying to do. You know, how do we engage and connect and get repeat visits and and retail is a big opportunity to do that, especially at gifting season.Paul Marden: Yeah, yeah, sustainability is increasingly important to the narrative of the whole retail experience, isn't it? How do you make sure that we're not going about just selling plastic tat that nobody's going to look after?Michael  Dolan: We've made this a core value for Shamrock Gift Company, so we've engaged with a company called Clearstream Solutions, the same company that Guinness Store has. have worked with them. So it's a long-term partnership. So they've measured our carbon footprint from 2019 to 2023. So we've set ourselves the ambitious target of being carbon neutral by 2030.Michael  Dolan: So just some of the elements that we've engaged in. So we put 700 solar panels on our roof as of last summer. All our deliveries in Dublin are done with electric vans, which we've recently purchased. All the lights in the building now are LED. Motion-sensored as well. All the cars are electric or that we've purchased recently, and we've got a gas boiler. So we've also now our shipments from China we're looking at biodiesel. So that's fully sustainable. And we also, where we can't use biodiesel, we're doing carbon offsetting as well.Paul Marden: So a lot of work being done in terms of the cost of CO2 of the transport that you're doing. What about the product itself? How do you make sure that the product itself is inherently something that people are going to treasure and is not a throwaway item?Michael  Dolan: We're using more sustainable materials, so a lot more stone, a lot more wood. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Michael  Dolan: Yeah. Also, it begins with great design. Yeah. So, you know, and obviously working with our retail partners, make sure that the goods are very well designed, very well manufactured. So we're working with some wonderful, well, best in class manufacturers around the world. Absolutely.Jennifer  Kennedy: I think as well, if... you can, and it's becoming easier to do, if you can collaborate with some creators and makers that are actually within your location.Jennifer  Kennedy: Within Ireland, there's a lot more of that happening, which means sourcing is closer to home. But you also have this other economy that's like the underbelly of the craft makers market in Ireland, which is fabulous, which needs to be brought to the fore. So collaborations with brands can also form a very integral part of product development that's close to home and connected to people who are here—people who are actually creating product in Ireland.Paul Marden: This is just instinct, not knowledge at all. But I would imagine that when you're dealing with those local crafters and makers, that they are inherently more sustainable because they're creating things local to you. It's not just the distance that's...Jennifer  Kennedy: Absolutely, but in any instances that I'm aware of that I've been involved with, anyway, even the materials and their mythology, yeah, is all grounded in sustainability and which is fabulous to see. Like, there's more and there's more and more coming all the time.Michael  Dolan: We've got rid of 3 million bags a year. Key rings, mags used to be individually bagged. And now there are 12 key rings in a bag that's biodegradable. That alone is 2 million bags.Paul Marden: It's amazing, isn't it? When you look at something as innocuous as the bag itself that it's packaged in before it's shipped out. You can engineer out of the supply chain quite a lot of unnecessary packaging Michael  Dolan: And likewise, then for the retailer, they don't have to dispose of all that packaging. So it's a lot easier and cleaner to put the product on the shelf. Yes.Paul Marden: Something close to my heart, online retail. Have you seen examples where Irish attractions have extended their gift shop experience online, particularly well?Jennifer  Kennedy: For instance, there are a few examples, but what I was thinking more about on that particular thought was around the nature of the brand again and the product that, in my experience, the brands that can do that successfully tend to have something on offer that's very nostalgic or collectible. Or memorabilia and I think there are some examples in the UK potentially that are where they can be successful online because they have a brand or a product that people are collecting.Paul Marden: Yeah, so one of my clients is Jane Austen House, only about two miles away from where I live. And it blew me away the importance of their online shop to them. They're tiny. I mean, it is a little cottage in the middle of Hampshire, but they have an international audience for their gift shop. And it's because they've got this really, really committed audience of Jane Austen fans who want to buy something from the house. Then everybody talks about the Tank Museum in Dorset.Paul Marden: Who make a fortune selling fluffy tank slippers and all you could possibly imagine memorabilia related to tanks. Because again, it's that collection of highly curated products and this really, really committed audience of people worldwide. Catherine Toolan: The Tank were here last year presenting at the AVEA conference and it was such an incredible story about their success and, you know, how they went from a very small museum with a lot of support from government to COVID to having an incredible retail store, which is now driving their commercial success.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Nick has done a load of work. Yeah, that leads me nicely onto a note. So listeners, for a long time, Skip the Queue has been totally focused on the podcast. But today we have launched our first playbook. Which is hopefully the first of many. But the playbook that we're launching today is all about how attractions can focus on best practice for gift shop e-commerce. So we work with partners, Rubber Cheese, Navigate, and Stephen Spencer Associates. So Steve and his team has helped us to contribute to some sections to the guide around, how do you curate your product? How do you identify who the audience is? How do you create that collection? The team at Rubber Cheese talk about the mechanics of how do you put it online and then our friends at Navigate help you to figure out what the best way is to get bums on seats. So it was a crackpot idea of mine six months ago to put it together, and it is now huge.Paul Marden: It's packed full of advice, and that's gone live today. So you can go over to skipthequeue.fm and click on the Playbooks link there to go and download that. Thank you. So, Jennifer, Michael, it has been absolutely wonderful to talk to both of you. Thank you to my audience. You've also been fabulous. Well done. And what a packed episode that was. I get the feeling you two quite enjoy gift shops and retailing. You could talk quite a lot about it.Jennifer  Kennedy: I mean, I love it.  Paul Marden: That didn't come over at all. Jennifer  Kennedy: Well, I just think it's such a lovely way of connecting with people and keeping a connection, particularly from a brand point of view. It should be the icing on the cake, you know?Paul Marden: You're not just a market store salesperson, are you?Jennifer  Kennedy: And I thoroughly believe that the most successful ones are because the experiences that they're a part of sow the seeds. They plant the love, the emotion, the energy. All you're really doing is making sure that that magic stays with people when they go away. The brand experience is the piece that's actually got them there in the first place. Paul Marden: Now let's go over to the conference floor to hear from some Irish operators and suppliers.Charles  Coyle: I'm Charles Coyle. I'm the managing director of Emerald Park. We're Ireland's only theme park and zoo. We opened in November 2010, which shows you how naive and foolish we were that we opened a visitor attraction in the middle of winter. Fortunately, we survived it.Paul Marden: But you wouldn't open a visitor attraction in the middle of summer, so give yourself a little bit of a run-up to it. It's not a bad idea.Charles  Coyle: Well, that's true, actually. You know what? I'll say that from now on, that we had the genius to open in the winter. We're open 15 years now, and we have grown from very small, humble aspirations of maybe getting 150,000 people a year to we welcomed 810,000 last year. And we'll probably be in and around the same this year as well.  Paul Marden: Wowzers, that is really impressive. So we are here on the floor. We've already heard some really interesting talks. We've been talking about AI in the most recent one. What can we expect to happen for you in the season coming in?Charles  Coyle: Well, we are hopefully going to be integrating a lot of AI. There's possibly putting in a new booking system and things like that. A lot of that will have AI dynamic pricing, which has got a bad rap recently, but it has been done for years and years in hotels.Paul Marden: Human nature, if you ask people, should I be punished for travelling during the summer holidays and visiting in a park? No, that sounds terrible. Should I be rewarded for visiting during a quiet period? Oh, yes! Yes, I should definitely. It's all about perspective, isn't it? Very much so. And it is how much you don't want to price gouge people. You've got to be really careful. But I do think dynamic pricing has its place.Charles  Coyle: Oh, absolutely. I mean, a perfect example of it is right now, our top price is not going to go any higher, but it'll just be our lower price will be there more constantly, you know, and we'll... Be encouraging people to come in on the Tuesdays and Wednesdays, as you said, rewarding people for coming in at times in which we're not that busy and they're probably going to have a better day as a result.Susanne Reid: Hi, Suzanne Reid here. I'm the CEO at Christchurch Cathedral, Dublin. What are you here to get out of the conference? First and foremost, the conference is a great opportunity every year to... catch up with people that you may only see once a year from all corners of the country and it's also an opportunity to find out what's new and trending within tourism. We've just come from a really energising session on AI and also a very thought-provoking session on crisis management and the dangers of solar panels.Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, the story of We the Curious is definitely an interesting one. So we've just come off the back of the summer season. So how was that for you?Susanne Reid:Summer season started slower than we would have liked this year in 2025, but the two big American football matches were very strong for us in Dublin. Dublin had a reasonable season, I would say, and we're very pleased so far on the 13th of the month at how October is playing out. So hoping for a very strong finish to the year. So coming up to Christmas at Christchurch, we'll have a number of cathedral events. So typically our carol concerts, they tend to sell out throughout the season. Then we have our normal pattern of services and things as well.Paul Marden: I think it's really important, isn't it? You have to think back to this being a place of worship. Yes, it is a visitor attraction. Yes, that's an aside, isn't it? And the reason it is a place of worship.Susanne Reid: I think that's obviously back to what our earlier speaker was talking about today. That's our charitable purpose, the promotion of religion, Christianity. However, you know, Christchurch is one of the most visited attractions in the city.Susanne Reid: Primarily, people do come because it will be there a thousand years in 2028. So there is, you know, the stones speak really. And, you know, one of the sessions I've really benefited from this morning was around accessible tourism. And certainly that's a journey we're on at the cathedral because, you know, a medieval building never designed for access, really. Paul Marden: No, not hugely. Susanne Reid: Not at all. So that's part of our programming and our thinking and our commitment to the city and to those that come to it from our local communities. But also from further afield, that they can come and enjoy the splendour of this sacred space.Paul Marden: I've been thinking long and hard, and been interviewing people, especially people like We The Curious, where they're coming into their 25th anniversary. They were a Millennium Project. I hadn't even thought about interviewing an attraction that was a thousand years old. A genuine millennium project.Susanne Reid: Yeah, so we're working towards that, Paul. And, you know, obviously there's a committee in-house thinking of how we might celebrate that. One of the things that, you know, I know others may have seen elsewhere, but... We've commissioned a Lego builder to build a Lego model of the cathedral. There will obviously be some beautiful music commissioned to surround the celebration of a thousand years of Christchurch at the heart of the city. There'll be a conference. We're also commissioning a new audio tour called the ACE Tour, Adults, Children and Everyone, which will read the cathedral for people who have no sense of what they're looking at when they maybe see a baptismal font, for example. You know, we're really excited about this and we're hoping the city will be celebratory mood with us in 2028.Paul Marden: Well, maybe you can bring me back and I'll come and do an episode and focus on your thousand year anniversary.Susanne Reid: You'd be so welcome.Paul Marden: Oh, wonderful. Thank you, Suzanne.Paul Marden: I am back on the floor. We have wrapped up day one. And I am here with Ray Dempsey from Jameson Distillery. Ray, what's it been like today?Ray  Dempsey: Paul, it's been a great day. I have to say, I always loved the AVEA conference. It brings in such great insights into our industry and into our sector. And it's hosted here in Waterford, a city that I'm a native of. And, you know, seeing it through the eyes of a tourist is just amazing, actually, because normally I fly through here. And I don't have the chance to kind of stop and think, but the overall development of Waterford and the presentation from the Waterford County Council was really, really good. It's fantastic. They have a plan. A plan that really is driving tourism. Waterford, as a tourist destination, whereas before, you passed through Waterford. It was Waterford Crystal's stop and that was it. But they have put so much into the restoration of buildings, the introduction of lovely artisan products, very complimentary to people coming to here, whether it is for a day, a weekend, or a week. Fantastic.Paul Marden: What is it? We're in the middle of October and it's a bit grey and drizzly out there. But let's be fair, the town has been packed. The town has been packed.With coaches outside, so my hotel this morning full of tourists.Ray  Dempsey: Amazing, yeah it's a great hub, a great hub, and they've done so much with the city to enable that, and you see, as you pass down the keys, you know that new bridge there to enable extra traffic coming straight into the heart of the city, it's fantastic. We're all learning from it, and hopefully, bring it all back to our own hometowns.Paul Marden: I think it's been really interesting. We were talking earlier on, before I got the microphone out, saying how it's been a real mixed bag this year across the island of Ireland, hasn't it? So some people really, really busy, some people rubbish year.Ray  Dempsey: Yeah, I mean, I feel privileged the fact that, you know, we haven't seen that in Dublin. So, you know, there's a it's been a very strong year, a little bit after a little bit of a bumpy start in January, February. But, like, for the rest of the year onwards, it's been fantastic. It's been back to back festivals and lots of things, lots of reasons why people come to Dublin. And, of course, with the introduction of the NFL. That's new to us this year. And hopefully, we'll see it for a number of years to come. But they're great builders for organic growth for our visitor numbers. So I'm happy to say that I'm seeing a growth in both revenue and in visitor numbers in the Jameson Distillery. So I'm happy to see that. Now, naturally, I'm going to have to work harder to make sure it happens next year and the year after. But I'm happy to say that the tourism product in Dublin has definitely improved. And Dublin-based visitor attractions are doing well. Paul Marden: Exciting plans for summer 26? Ray  Dempsey: Yes, every year is exciting, Paul. And every year brings a challenge and everything else. But I'm delighted to say that our focus for 2026 really is on building inclusion. So we're looking at language tours.Ray  Dempsey: We're looking at tours for... you know, margins in society. And I think it's a really interesting way for us to be able to embrace accessibility to our story. And also, we have increased our experience repertoire to engage more high-end experiences, not private experiences. More demand for those. Okay. So we're delighted to say that we have the product in order to be able to do that. So that's exciting for us, you know, to be building into 2026. Great. Paul Marden: Thank you so much for joining us. I am the only thing standing in the way of you and a drink at the cocktail reception later on. So I think we should call it quits. Ray  Dempsey: And for sure. Paul Marden: If you enjoyed today's episode, then please like and comment in your podcast app. It really does help others to find us. Today's episode was written by me, Paul Marden, with help from Emily Burrows from Plaster. It was edited by Steve Folland and produced by Wenalyn Dionaldo. See you next week. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

We've well and truly kicked off season 7 in style as we welcome our first guest onto the show - IAAPA Board Chairman, Massimiliano Freddi. In this episode, Paul sits down with Massimiliano Freddi, the first Italian to ever hold the role of IAAPA Chairman in the association's 107-year history. From his early dream of running a theme park to founding Wonderwood and shaping Italy's unique attractions landscape, Massi shares how passion, storytelling, and a people-first mindset continue to drive his vision for the industry. Skip The Queue is back for Season 7 and we're announcing some big changes! Get ready for new hosts, a fresh new look, weekly content and find out where you can catch us live at events to be part of the action.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn, or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 24th September 2025. The winner will be contacted via LinkedIn or Bluesky. Show references:  https://iaapa.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/freddi/Massimiliano Freddi  a leading figure in the amusement and entertainment industry, has been appointed president of the steering committee of IAAPA (International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, the leading international association for attractions and theme parks) for 2025. This is the first time since the foundation of the World Association of Attractions (1918) that this position has been entrusted to an Italian.The appointment underscores his extensive experience and significant contribution to the global industry. Freddi brings a wealth of experience gained at some of the industry's most prominent companies. His career began in marketing and press office for the Italian market at Disneyland Paris. He subsequently joined Leolandia.A visionary entrepreneur, in 2018, Massimiliano Freddi founded Wonderwood, an adventure and amusement park for all ages, of which he is currently CEO, in his hometown of Trarego Viggiona, in the Verbano-Cusio-Ossola region on Lake Maggiore. This growing business has redeveloped several local facilities and provided employment to several young residents of the small towns in the area. His passion for the sector also extends to academia. Since 2016, he has been a member of the coaching staff of Seth Godin's Altmba and is a professor of marketing and experience design at IULM University in Milan. At the same university, where Italy's first course in theme park and attraction management was introduced, he teaches subjects such as consumer experience, marketing, and soft skills as an adjunct professor. Freddi was also one of the original founders of Parksmania, the first newspaper dedicated to amusement parks.Freddi will continue to bring his innovative vision and deep industry knowledge to the global association, helping shape the future of attractions internationally. Regarding Italy, he commented that he sees great potential and wants to help realise it. Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about the world's best visitor attractions and the people that work in them. I'm Paul Marden, along with my co-hosts Andy Povey and Sinead Kimberley, I spend my days working with ambitious attractions like theme parks, museums, galleries, and science centres to help them to attract more guests. Paul Marden: Today on Skip the Queue, I'm joined by someone who has been shaping the attractions industry in truly remarkable ways. Massimiliano Freddi is the first Italian ever to hold the role of chairman in IAAPA's 107-year history. A milestone that not only celebrates his career, but also shines a light on Italy's growing influence in the global attractions landscape. Massimiliano has worn many hats across his journey, from fulfilling his childhood dream of becoming a Theme Park Managing Director at just 28, where he grew guest numbers from 300,000 to over 800,000, to founding his own destinations like Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore and Wonderwood Spina Verde, overlooking Lake Como. Along the way, he's pioneered inclusive and eco-conscious practices, championing the power of storytelling and shown how attractions can thrive by creating meaningful experiences for every guest.Paul Marden: Beyond his leadership roles, Massimiliano is also a Professor of Marketing and Experience Design at IULM University in Milan, where he's passionate about nurturing the next generation of talent in our sector. Often described as both a dreamer and a doer, he brings together vision and practicality in a way that continues to inspire operators around the world.Paul Marden: Massimilliano, welcome to the show. It really is a pleasure to have you with us. We always start Skip the Queue and the kickoff of season seven, no less, is going to be no different. We always start with an icebreaker question. And I'm thinking back to, we're just back off of our summer holidays, aren't we? For your perfect holiday, would it start with planes, trains or driving.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, that's a beautiful question. By the way, congratulations because you've pronounced Massimiliano in a very correct way. So that's unusual. I have a complicated name. I know, I know.Massimiliano Freddi: Hey, I would say train. Train is really, really part of the way that I love to travel with. And unfortunately, too often it happens by car, which I like a little bit less. I get dizzy, you know, and stuff. Train is my ultimate, ultimate way to travel.Paul Marden: I did a sleeper train to Scotland a couple of years ago, and it was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And what's brilliant is there's more of those sleeper trains hitting Europe, aren't there now? So there really is very few excuses for us not to be holidaying with the start with some elegant sleeper train. My only disappointment was that there was no murder on the train, so I couldn't have an Agatha Christie style novel themed around my train  journey, but uh, you know.Massimiliano Freddi: I mean, I mean, it could have been the Hogwarts Express, but apparently, it doesn't run every day, so.Paul Marden: That would be pretty cool as well. I've just come back from Edinburgh, actually, and we saw, you know, the viaduct where the train goes to Hogwarts, and completely unplanned, there was a steam train that went over the bridge whilst we were there. It was amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: Happy go lucky.Paul Marden: Yeah. So enough of my holidays. Let's kick off talking about you and IAAPA. What can international markets learn from attractions in Italy? Tell us a little bit about the attractions landscape over there in Italy at the moment.Massimiliano Freddi: Yes. So let's say that the attraction landscape is very similar, somehow, to how the restaurants or the retail landscape has always been, which means a lot of mom and pop stores. And I think that what people who travel to Italy love is to find something that is one of a kind that you can find only in Italy. I have a deep respect for Starbucks, but I'm always... questioning myself, you know, when somebody comes to Italy, do they really want to find Starbucks? Is this a real thing? So when it comes to parks and attractions, Italy has not faced a big concentration in players like it has happened in other countries. Of course, some big players are there. Parques Reunidos owns Mirabilandia, which is the second most important Italian park. And the most important Italian park is Gardaland, owned by Merlin Entertainment. Then we have a few other groups. Owning and operating some of the facilities, but let's say that, out of 250 parks between—or, you said, attractions— that's very correct now, if we talk about attractions, now the number is endless, because where is the border?Paul Marden: What is an attraction? Yeah, that's a big philosophical question.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, okay, so let's say that, once upon a time, we used to count parks. So when we talk about parks, we have roughly 250 parks in Italy, and most of them are tiny, tiny, tiny, and they are independently owned. That's my case. I own and operate two parks right now, and I'm about to open, a third location that will be an indoor one this November. And so, yes, I think that what what others can learn from Italy i think is to keep this respect for your roots and to make sure that you don't make every attraction look like another one, but you kind of keep it, you know, different.Massimiliano Freddi: And so it's a matter of the mix of how people can have fun and get entertained. But it's really also about retail and about food and about shows and festivals and you name it, you know. So there are these places that we see on Instagram and immediately we say, oh, that's, I mean, when I see a picture of the Empire State Building or of the Tower Bridge. I know immediately where it belongs to. And so I think that, with attractions, we need to think in the future always about this. Guests coming to visit us, they want to have the ultimate experience and they want to have something that's different from anything they've done before. So this is the responsibility we have.Paul Marden: And a big one it is. Let's talk a little bit about the experience economy. And especially when we think about, you know, beyond the parks, there's this... massive ecosystem around the outside of different ways that people can enjoy themselves. What does that experience economy mean to you, especially in Italy?Massimiliano Freddi: The experience economy, first of all, it truly matters to me, the book. Because in 1999, it was once upon a time, it was really difficult to find literature and scientific literature on the leisure industry. And so I think that at that time, we thought that everybody could take inspiration from the attractions industry. And it has happened because right now. Yes, definitely. You know, food is experience and travel is experience and lodging is experience. You name it, you name it. You know, even there is also a funeral house in Italy, which has become very famous because they are really based on the experience they will give, you know, not to the people who passed away, unfortunately, you know, but the people remain. So I think that it's very hard now to find an industry that doesn't think, that we are in the experience economy and that everything should be experienced and experiential. And so I think that when I go back to my example, I think that we as attractions, we need to be even more wise in how we choose to present ourselves and what we cater to our guests.Massimiliano Freddi: Because of course, we need to raise the bar. So right now, we know that some access... And some services to our attractions have become better with technology. But still, we are, you know, long lines sometimes. And we feel we are paying too much for what we are getting back.Massimiliano Freddi: I would say that in the end, experience economy starts with people and ends with people. And so we need to be people-centric. And only like this, we can be truly experiential. I don't think that an experience is about technology.  It's always, always about people.Paul Marden: Absolutely. I wonder as well, I'm always struck by this industry, how close we are, how we collaborate with one another. And really, the competition aren't the other parks or attractions. The competition is getting people out and doing something. There are so many things at home that could keep you at home, getting you out and about and visiting places and enjoying those experiences. I wonder whether collaboration is the answer to this.Massimiliano Freddi: I think you nailed it because it's crucial. Everybody who has not been working for this industry, when they enter the industry, because they might change jobs, everybody is so surprised that we collaborate so heavily. And I think that a key to this success has always been this big collaboration. I have almost always in my career been part of smaller facilities. And to me, IAAPA and the associations were, it's been crucial, you know, because you are alone. Very, very often your facility is in the middle of nowhere. No matter if you're part of a big group, because even big groups have facilities in the middle of nowhere, but for family-owned and operated attractions, that's almost the golden rule.Massimiliano Freddi: And so there are so many days in your life, in your career, in your profession, where you would benefit strongly from talking to somebody else who's been through something like you before and who's found a different solution and who can open up your eyes. So I think that's the beauty of our industries is getting together. Again, if we don't get together, how can we make people get together?Paul Marden: Yeah, I'm very excited about getting together because I've got my first IAAPA in Barcelona coming up. And I'm very excited about what this is going to be like.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, you will be blown away.Paul Marden:  I can't wait. I absolutely can't wait. Now, look. Someone has once described you as a dreamer and a doer. One of your dreams was to be managing director of a theme park. Where did that inspiration come from?Massimiliano Freddi: So it comes from a terrible childhood. And so it comes from the fact that, yeah, the world around me when I was a kid was not a positive world. And my family had a lot of troubles. And I'm an orphan from the side of my mother. I mean, I went through several things. And so I think that the attractions industry, to me, it really meant this place that's always happy and where grownups can really take great care of kids and kids at heart.Massimiliano Freddi: So I think that my passion came out of that. Now, dreaming and doing, of course, we all have as a big myth and as a reference, Walt Disney himself, and he was the guy who first said, 'Dreamers and doers' talking about, what enterprises, so his imagineers. I think that whenever I see something, I want to say something. Everybody who knows me knows pretty well. But it means that I love to see the world in a constant improvement. So, if I check in at a hotel and I see that there is something in there that, you know, it even doesn't impact me. But with a small step, they could make it better and fix it. I just share it and I share it, you know, wherever I am. And so I think that maybe this was a bit of my secret weapon because I got involved in several things. I think because I'm curious and maybe because I'm generous in sharing.Massimiliano Freddi: And I don't know if there is a secret there. There is just that in the moment in which you accept yourself the way you are and you acknowledge that you have some talents, and you don't have some others, and some skills you can get better, some others no way—okay. I could never never be an attorney, I could never do a lot of jobs on the planet, but now I know, at the age of 44, that I know what I'm good at, and even if I'm good at that, I want to constantly improve. So I think that maybe the support that I could bring to the table to the companies I've worked for, to the associations, to my own business, and so on, it's always been this obsession with constant improvement every day.Paul Marden: I think it takes a certain vulnerability, doesn't it? To spot something that you think can be improved and to offer a suggestion. And I think it's so valuable. I was at an attraction recently and I got the email at the end of the day, saying, 'How was it?' Please leave us a review. I went to click it and it didn't work. I knew the head of marketing, so I just pinged him off a quick email that just said, 'Oh, I had such a brilliant time but I couldn't leave you a review. I wanted to give you a brilliant review, but I couldn't do it because it didn't work. And that led them to go and look at all of their outbound emails, and none of them were working properly. But you know, you could walk by and just leave that alone. But I can't do it. However, it is sometimes does make you feel really awkward, couldn't you? But when I get great services in a restaurant, when somebody looks after me while at an attraction, I want to tell them how good it was, and if I can see something they can do better, I want to tell them what they could do.Massimiliano Freddi:  Totally, totally. And I'm so much on the same page. I was about to say that it's equally important to call people out when they're doing well.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: So to make sure that they are aware. And sometimes, you know, to say there was one day where I travelled during a bank holiday, and I arrived at the entire bank holiday, and I arrived to the airport, and I decided I wanted to thank each and every employee that I would meet because they were there that day. I mean. We got used that Sundays are no longer Sundays, but the bank holidays, these are the moments in which you spend time with your family and with your kids and so on. And if you're there and you're working, I mean, it's good that somebody sees you and tells you, 'Hey, thank you because you're working even today, you know?' And you can tell how everybody gets surprised. So I think that we learn so much more by positive reinforcement.Massimiliano Freddi: And so how important it is also to tell attractions, facilities, managers, CEOs. I mean, CEOs, they are so used to just getting... I can't use swear words. Yes, you can. Under those kind of storms, you know, all the time, all the time. And so when a CEO does something good, come on, let's tell her.Paul Marden: Yeah, it's a really lonely job. And all you get is... is the spankings and the tellings off. Isn't it? So when they get it right, they definitely need a pat on the back because they're not going to get it. They're not going to get it. So I can't believe this. At the age of 28, you made your dream come true and you were managing director of a theme park in Italy for Minitalia, which became Leolandia, in this role you took guest numbers from 300, 000 guests a year to over 800,000.Paul Marden: Tell us that story. How do you so dramatically increase footfall at the attraction?Massimiliano Freddi: I don't think it was me. I think it was a great teamwork because it's a great teamwork, you know, and you can grow this much. If your operation is working very well, if your safety is right on spot, if the park is clean, you know, and so on. I can tell you one thing that when we were at the basic level, so at the very beginning, of course, we couldn't afford to buy big attractions or too heavily themed. And we needed really, I remember that the first Halloween, we had a 10K budget, 10,000 euro budget for a whole month of Halloween. Okay, so we would go to the do-it-yourself stores and buy brooms and build everything. I mean, that was a magical moment because it created the capability of the team to envision that, if you want, you can do with the things you have. And of course, with a huge budget, you can do fantastic things.Massimiliano Freddi: But sometimes, you know, this helps. So in that moment... TripAdvisor was a true success still. We're talking about 20 years ago. So TripAdvisor was kind of the reference. That's even before Google Maps and all that. So I remember that I did an analysis and I understood that every restaurant or park who had over 4. 5 out of 5 was growing. And having 4 out of 5 was not enough. Now we call it NPS, we call it a different way. But there, in this practical way, so I remember this moment with my team saying, 'Hey, we need to be obsessed with getting five stars.' And this is the point. So what can we do? First of all, we can have the cleanest toilets on earth. Let's make sure that the smell is good, they are super clean, and so on. Because people, that's a level of service. Of course, this is not a driver of visit, but this is a driver of satisfaction. And in the same way, let's start to work with better suppliers when it comes to food and beverage.Massimiliano Freddi: Let's start to make things more comfortable. So I think that this was the first thing. The second aspect, again, it's very much linked to IAAPA because I think that attending the show every year and knowing the people. At that time, Jakob Wahl, he used to be one of the employees of IAAPA in Brussels. I don't think he was a manager at the time yet. He was in charge of keeping relationships with members. So I reached out to him. We are the same age. I reached out to him and I said, 'Hey, I would love to visit a few facilities in other countries because I need to get fresh ideas.' It was a very delicate moment. We came out of two bad seasons due to bad weather. Because then you know, you don't go from here to here as a straight line, but always as this roller coaster. And in a moment you think, 'Oh, I made it.' There's a dip.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: You can never sleep. And so he put me in contact with several facilities. I visited some in Belgium, in the Netherlands, and in the UK. And in the UK, I visited this, at that time, small park still called Paulton's Park. You might know that. I remember it was a weekday with bad weather and the parking lot was packed. And I was like, 'How comes?' Kids are not at school today. What is the point? I enter the park. The park is, yeah, not so crowded. So I really suspect that they are, you know, keeping the people all shut down together in a place. I don't know. I don't know what the point was. And then I enter the Peppa Pig's World.Massimiliano Freddi: And it blows my mind. And again, what blows my mind is that it didn't have any huge attraction. But it had that feeling. And people were just so happy. It was magic. Little kids there with their families, a lot of strollers all over the place, traffic jams due to strollers. And so I came back and I said, 'Hey, we need to get Peppa Pig.' And I remember that the team was like, 'It can't happen.' It has happened. In the end, we were the second park in the world after Paulton's Park to get Peppa. And that reshaped the entire strategy of the park we had at that time, turning it into what we wanted to achieve, is to become the best park for the kids under the age of 10 in Southern Europe. And best means really the best, rated from the bottom of the heart. And so this is what has happened. So I think that, you know, before Leolandia, I had worked for Disneyland Paris and I'm a big Disney fan. So that was kind of the school I had attended and I just had to apply. The theory that I've learned, I had to apply it, and I had a fantastic team and the resources to do that.Paul Marden: Amazing. Now, fast forward to 2018, and you've taken the step from MD to founder and founded Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore. Now, let's test my Italian. You've also founded Wonderwood Spina Verde. Massimiliano Freddi: I'm speechless. I can't correct anything.Paul Marden: Wonderful. Overlooking Lake Como, both of which, by the way, were... So I've been to Maggiore and Lake Como for my honeymoon. So a beautiful, beautiful place. And you've put two parks there. How has that been?Massimiliano Freddi:  It has been crazy. So I remember that the first year, and I mean, we created the company at the end of 2018. We've opened our gates in the summer of 2019. Now, if we all remember what has happened at the beginning of 2020.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, so perfect timing. Now, I can tell you that the first season, every day, I would literally cry, but for real.Massimilliano Freddi: I was exhausted. My husband was exhausted. We thought that this was a nightmare, the worst possible nightmare. And if somebody had knocked on my door and asked me, 'Hey, could I just take it over?' I don't give you a penny. I will just take home the loans. I would have said yes. And that's because, of course, every project is over budget. Of course. No matter. No matter.Massimiliano Freddi: And when it's a family company and you don't have the money because you've contracted several loans and so on, it makes it super, super difficult. So in that moment, my call for action was because the possibility of Lake Maggiore was in the town where I spent every summer as a kid. So it was a love story. And I wanted to give back to the community. I wanted to do something in the nature that would inspire kids to hike more. To become more active and just not only to stay in front of a screen, but to do something different. So that came out of this kind of dream. And so it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare at the very beginning. Then COVID hit and we were very lucky, of course, because we didn't lose anyone from our families and friends. So I am very thankful for that. And at the same time, it gave us the possibility to stop for a second, rewind, and refine our strategy.Massimiliano Freddi: Because we had just closed the park in, I mean, the week before Christmas, and we were supposed to reopen in less than three months, but we were exhausted. So I'm telling this story because usually it's so nice to tell that the triumphs, you know, and say, 'Hey, it's been fantastic.' Yeah, we nailed it. We had, no, we made 200 mistakes.Massimiliano Freddi: And we paid for all the mistakes. So I think that in that moment, yeah, we were struggling at the beginning. We were reflecting in the middle part. And then three years ago, two to three years ago, I woke up one morning and I understood that I really loved what I was doing. And it had changed. It had changed. And seeing so many families happy and so many people visiting and seeing... How many young professionals or students started to work with us and then you see them leaping? I think that this is the most beautiful thing on earth. It's very empowering. So right now I'm in this situation where I am so grateful for this entire six years, even if they started in a way that was very, very heavy. But, you know, the Latins used to say 'per aspera ad astra.' It means... 'towards the stars through the asperities.' And so we need to go through that thing, that tunnel.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Now, as if founding your own parks wasn't enough, you also mix your time as a professor at the university. I can hear from what you were talking about, about bringing the young professionals into the park, that there's an element to you of apprenticeship almost, of teaching that next cohort of people that are going to come and take over the world.Paul Marden: How exciting is that for you to be able to mix that in at the university?Massimiliano Freddi: It's fantastic. It's fantastic. And again, it came out of passion. It came out. I didn't do a PhD after my university. My career wasn't supposed to be the academic one. And I didn't trust I would be able to do that. And then I got called for a lecture, then two lectures, and three lectures. And then, right now, I have several courses at university.Massimiliano Freddi: There's a point. The point is that, if we meet between our age of 14, 14, 15, until our 25, and if we narrow it down, it's between maybe 16 and 22, this is the moment in which it's more important to meet some mentors. And most of us don't meet mentors. They meet nice people around them, giving them very nice advice based on their experience and not seeing the talents they have in front of them. And in several cases, we are scared. We think that we are not enough. And so I really think that it's such a huge privilege for me to be able to be at university and to meet so many hundreds of students every year and to try to make my small impact so that, first of all, they can believe in themselves and they can believe that the world can be a better place, even if right now it's kind of a tough moment. But from tough moments, again, we can learn things.Massimiliano Freddi: Even at IAAPA, one of the things that I really am passionate more about is what are the spaces we can create for young professionals and students. So I want to give two very short examples. The IAAPA Foundation has evolved a lot over the last few years. We were able to collect so many more donations.Massimiliano Freddi: And now, this year, it will be a record-breaking year when it comes to scholarships to which students can apply in universities around the globe. So I think that's... But to me and to all of us in the board of the IAAPA Foundation, that's like the starting point. We are here celebrating because it's a big achievement and then we look each other in the eyes and say, 'Okay, now what's next?' Now, how can we make sure that the impact is even bigger? And if we go on the side of IAAPA, I think we are very... We pay a lot of attention to make sure that the membership fees are very low for the people entering. The word of leisure. Just a few weeks ago, it got launched on the IAAPA job board that whoever has a company and wants to post an internship, that's free to post. So that, you know, there could be thousands of internships available for students.Massimiliano Freddi: Of course, as a big association, we are used to talk to members and maybe older members because we visit facilities and we visit manufacturers and we need to deal with safety and stuff. But students and young professionals are not on the back of my head. They are like near and dear to my heart. And so my real question is: when this year ends in a couple of months, how can I dedicate myself even more to contribute to young people? Because I think that they are making a change. They will make a change. And we are learning so much from them because the work we are leaving you and me right now. I have bad news. It's no longer our world. We don't have the code to decode that. So we don't have the keys. We can just support people that are better than us and make sure that they can live, that they can teach, that they can learn.  That's a bit of what I see.Paul Marden: I completely agree with you. I think it's interesting because you talk about what you're giving, but you're also getting something back. This is not entirely altruistic, is it? The support that you're giving for these young people and early career professionals, you're getting something back, enriching yourself and learning new things from them.Massimiliano Freddi: Always, always. And I think that, you know, I don't always teach. Market leisure marketing and stuff— you know, I teach marketing at a at a Master's Degree in Management of Beauty and Wellness, total different industry, you know, food and wine. As I was telling, but what I bring home every time is how much young people need to feel seen and, and this is truly important because if we create for them not a safe zone, because of course we want them to get messy. We want them to take risks, but they need to feel safe as humans and they need to feel safe as seen. And so I appreciate a lot this because then the energy that I... And you know, when we talk about IAAPA, we have so many ambassadors that have been contributing to the IAAPA trade shows and events all over the globe. We have young people joining the committees.Massimiliano Freddi: Right now, there are a few, more than a few young professional task forces around the globe that are really helping us, old people, to understand what they need. So I think that we are at the very beginning. And if I could say a dream out loud, I wish that IAAPA in five or ten years, maybe in five years, can multiply the number of young engaged people in the association by 100. 10 is not enough. 20 is by 100. We need to make an impact. And I think we want to make an impact. So hopefully.Paul Marden: Well, there's an ambition for you. And I think every... worthwhile project— every it always starts with that kind of ambitious goal— at the very beginning of it you need to be driven by that  hundred times impact not the 10 times impact we we always like to finish our interviews with a book recommendation, fiction, non-fiction, industry-related or not, give us a view uh into your reading habits, okay, so can I mention more than one book? You bankrupt me because I always offer the book recommendation as a prize for people, but you can have more than one.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay. Okay. Thank you because I'm a big reader. So the first author that I would love to mention is J. K. Rowling because Harry Potter is not just a story of a kid or of magic, but it's a story of a woman who was a bit desperate. And then... She followed what she was feeling. She allowed her emotions to flow. And she has created a masterpiece. And she has impacted us all, you know, no matter business-related, non-business-related, and so on. So I think that, to read again, the first Harry Potter book, it's very important because it brings us back to some reason why, you know, and to some things. The second book that I would love to mention is a book written by Seth Godin. I have had the privilege to work for Seth for several years.Paul Marden: Really?Massimiliano Freddi: And yeah, he's an amazing guy. He's an amazing guy. And come on, he's such a generous person and he's amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: I don't have any other words that's amazing. He wrote a book maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago called Linchpin. And Linchpin is not his most famous book, but it's the book that changed my life because it really nudges you. In a gentle and not so gentle way sometimes. No, I'm saying in a gentle way. It nudges you to don't set for what you have, but to see your inner talents and to innovate and to be creative, be generous, and so on. So, Linchpin to me is the book that changed it all for me. So, I think that everybody, young, less young, everybody should read once in a lifetime.Paul Marden: I feel like I need to go and read this because that is one Seth Godin book I have not read. So there we go. Listeners, if you would like a copy of Linchpin, then the first person that heads over to LinkedIn and reposts our show notice and says, 'I want Massimiliano's book' and can spell Massimiliano correctly, will have a copy of the book sent to them. We've got IAAPA Europe taking place next week in Barcelona.Paul Marden: And we have a very special Skip the Queue announcement. We are going to be hitting the show floor on a daily basis. We are going to go live for daily episodes of Skip the Queue from the show floor. We're going to be talking to operators about what their challenges are like. Finding out what new supplier announcements are coming out. And the Skip the Queue team is going to be feverishly working away. We'll be recording during the day and Steve and Wenalyn will be editing and producing through the night, ready to post the show the following morning. So I'm very excited about that.Massimiliano Freddi: And I think we are super excited to have you guys on the trade show floor. And I recommend... Of course, visiting it, making the most out of it, and don't underestimate the fantastic education sessions that take place. There is a strong lineup of speakers that will impact the way that the industry will be in a few years. So, great opportunity.Paul Marden:  How's that for a trailer? That sounds amazing. Massimilliano, it really has been a pleasure to talk to you.Massimiliano Freddi: Thank you so much, Paul, for me as well. And see you in Barcelona.Paul Marden: Yes, how exciting. Looking forward to it.Paul Marden: Remember, if you'd like a copy of today's book, head over to LinkedIn and repost our show notice saying, 'I want a copy of Massimiliano's book.' If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on your podcasting platform. It really helps people to find the show. If you didn't enjoy it, or you've got ideas about how we could improve the show, then let us know at hello@skipthequeue.fm. My thanks to Massimiliano and his team at IAAPA for their help with this episode. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, the digital agency that creates amazing websites for ambitious visitor attractions. This episode was written by Emily Burrows, produced by Wenalyn Dionaldo and edited by Steve Folland. To Skip the Queue team, also includes Sami Entwistle, Sinead Kimberley, Claire Furnival, and Andy Povey. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

Skip The Queue is back for Season 7 and we're announcing some big changes! Get ready for new hosts, a fresh new look, weekly content and find out where you can catch us live at events to be part of the action.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden  and Andy Povey.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. Show references: Paul Marden The CEO of Rubber Cheese, Paul pairs two decades of digital expertise with a love of creative problem solving, making him the go-to guy for turning tricky tech into seamless guest journeys, all delivered with his trademark energy and wit.https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/ Andy Povey The Co-CEO of Crowd Convert, Andy brings sharp insights, deep industry knowledge and notorious anecdotes from decades in attractions.https://www.linkedin.com/in/andypovey/  Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about the world's best visitor attractions and the people that work in them. I'm Paul Marden. Along with my co-hosts, Andy Povey and Sinead Kimberley, I spend my days working with ambitious attractions like theme parks, museums, galleries, and science centres to help them to attract more guests. In today's episode, Andy and I talk about what's coming up for Skip the Queue as we enter Season 7.Paul Marden: Seven seasons, hey? Good lord. How very exciting. We've had our summer holidays. We've had our little break, but there's no rest for the wicked, is there?Andy Povey: Absolutely not. You say it's a busman's holiday, really, isn't it?  Working in our industry.Paul Marden: I think it is, isn't it? Life has changed quite a lot for us recently, hasn't it? In the last few months, with the advent of Crowd Convert and Merac coming back to life again, we've been out on the road going everywhere, haven't we?Andy Povey: Absolutely everywhere. And I promise I'm not going to bitch about electric cars and charging.Andy Povey: That's the only thing I've found that annoys me more than a poor online ticketing experience.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. So we have both been visiting lots of clients. It's been very exciting. But we've also both had our summer holidays. Which attraction is memorable for you from your recent holiday?Andy Povey: Do you know, there's so many. We took our girls to the longest named tourist attraction in the world, I think. Warner Brothers Studio Tour London, the making of Harry Potter. On their 11th birthday. Oh, how was that? We had a beautiful experience. They have this really smart trick there where if they note your birthday, they give you a badge that says, 'It's my birthday.'Andy Povey: It's modelled on the birthday cake that Hagrid gave Harry. So it's all completely in keeping and in theme. So my daughters were walking around with these and every member of staff we saw that saw the badge wished them happy birthday. The first member of staff that did it absolutely blew my girls' minds. They hadn't associated it with the badge that they were wearing and they thought that they were the most special people on the face of the earth.Andy Povey: Absolutely superb. And the experience itself is wonderful. So that was probably the most memorable. I did something else very recently that was a little bit unusual. So I'm a man in my 50s. I was a teenager, probably not even a teenager, a kid when Grease came out. And all my mates and all my friends raved about it, and I didn't go and see it. And I've been very proud of the fact that I've never seen Grease.Andy Povey: Until last weekend. When we went to the Secret Cinema showing of Grease in Battersea Park, wow, wow, what an experience. Live actors, live scenes with the film running in the background, the fairground sitting outside the auditorium, where the final set, if you've watched Grease ever, where they're in the fairground, went out there.Andy Povey: Such a fantastic experience. Really does make me wonder why we don't have more of our larger parks doing that kind of stuff in partnership with Secret Cinema. It would make you stay for the evening and really extend your day. Absolutely superb experience. So, if you get the opportunity to go and see it, please do.Paul Marden: How very cool.Andy Povey: Tell them Andy sent you, which will mean absolutely nothing.  How about you?Paul Marden: We recently went to Scotland. We spent a day, which was really not enough, in Edinburgh. And actually, as you're talking about the Harry Potter experience, we did a little Harry Potter thing because there is a graveyard, Greyfriars Bobby's graveyard.Paul Marden: It was the inspiration for many of the names in Harry Potter. And this graveyard was, I mean, it was chock full of every nationality of tourist you could possibly imagine, plus the three of us wandering around all trying to find Harry Potter themed gravestones. Yeah, so we found Tom Riddle's tombstone. We saw a McGonagall. Yeah, it was just, that was quite magical. But the thing that sticks in my head is we also visited the Real Mary King's Close. And when you walk along the Royal Mile, falling off the side of the Royal Mile are all of these tenement closes that three of them were capped over a couple of hundred years ago and completely forgotten about. Continuum attractions have turned them into an attraction that you can wander around. You get a guided tour of this time capsule of what life was like in a tenement block. In Edinburgh, it was rated last year as the best tourist attraction in Britain, according to TripAdvisor.Paul Marden: And it really, really was magical. It was such a fun visit. We were guided around by a tour guide in costume and in character the whole way around. And at the end of it, she introduced herself as coming from Philadelphia.Paul Marden: She was really really great guide, and I just loved it. I've seen them in the Rubber Cheese Survey for the last four years, and thought, 'What a funny name for an attraction? I wonder what that is?' And so, when I saw it, I had to go. I loved every minute of it, and it was brilliant.Andy Povey: I agree, it's a fantastic place. Did you see J. K. Rowling's handprints just around the corner?Paul Marden: No.Andy Povey: In the courtyard next to the entrance?Paul Marden: No, I didn't.Andy Povey: See, I think they were trying to do something like the Hollywood Walk of Fame, where there are famous people's handprints. I should have told you before. Is there something to go back for?Paul Marden: Oh, we'll definitely be going back. There was so much there in Edinburgh that we didn't get to see. You just couldn't do it in a day.Paul Marden: But so much fun. So much fun.Paul Marden: So we are into season seven. And just like the last few seasons, we've got lots of ideas, brimming with ideas, few changes. And we thought we would tease them for you here in this short non-episode, just to tell you about some of the things that are coming up. And yeah, shall we?Paul Marden: We'll talk about the first thing that you came up with, which was the move to weekly content.Andy Povey:  You're blaming me for this?Paul Marden: Absolutely. Absolutely.Andy Povey: I mean, the objective was to double the listenership of the podcast. And so you did that by doubling my work. And it seemed like it would be really, really easy to do that if we doubled the episodes.Andy Povey: So, yeah, we're going weekly. I'm sure we're going to have plenty to fill it. Because you look at all of the interesting stories we come across, the people that we talk to, the things that we want to talk about, and we end up editing and cutting things. So I'm convinced that we're going to have loads of really exciting things to talk about. We're also going to introduce a couple of different themes. So do you want to talk about the Millennium-funded projects?Paul Marden: Yes, so this is carrying on the theme that I started back at the back end of Season 6. When I spoke to another Edinburgh attraction, Dynamic Earth. They were a good example of a Millennium project that was obviously kicked off 25 years ago. And we had a lovely conversation about what has been the challenges, what has been the opportunities for them in the last 25 years, and what does the future look like? I'm off to the Association of Science and Discovery Centres conference next week. That episode will be out in a few weeks' time. And we're going to be talking a lot about science centres. and how they can thrive over the next 25 years. But we'll be talking to some other Millennium projects as well in the season ahead. So Charles Bishop from the National Space Centre, if you're listening, give me a call.Andy Povey: I'm going to try and hound you to appear on the podcast.Paul Marden: We've also, this is very self-indulgent, but we are going to be going through a little bit of a rebrand. The Skip the Queue brand has stayed the same for the six seasons. And our friends at Plaster Creative Communications have been working really hard. They're the only reason why we could possibly go weekly with our content because Emily and Sami are helping us to ramp up our content and working with us closely. But they've also helped us with our rebrand, which is also going to be an audio rebrand. So there's going to be some new audio tickling your ears coming up as well, which is very exciting.Andy Povey: It's not just the rebrand though, is it? Let's talk about the other things that we're going to be doing with Skip the Queue.Paul Marden: Yeah. Should we talk playbooks?Andy Povey: Absolutely. Tell me what it means.Paul Marden: So I, for a long time, thought that there was something that Skip the Queue could do because, you know. Yes, this is our baby, but it is a lot of hard work from across the industry that goes towards making the podcast the success that it is. And we're going to move that successful collaboration into a series of playbooks where we're bringing together people from across the industry to help guide attractions into... the state of the art and what's possible within the sector across a number of different subjects. And we're starting that with e-commerce. So we're currently collaborating with our friends at Stephen Spencer Associates and at Navigate. And we're producing the first in that playbook series all about what... What does it take to be able to build an amazing e-commerce experience for an attraction? How do you curate the products?Paul Marden: How do you come up with the ideas? How do you put the technology together? And then how do you get anybody to come and visit and buy from you? So that's very exciting.Andy Povey: So that's more of your gift shop. Retail e-commerce.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Absolutely. And there'll be room as well within the series for us to talk about other things as well. So we are completely open to ideas. So listeners, if you've got ideas of a playbook that you'd like to see, it could be about digital sustainability. It could be about ticketing. It could be about any aspect of operating an attraction. Come and tell us and come up with ideas of who we could work with and we'll put something together for you. So I think that's really exciting, and that will be coming out in a few weeks' time.Andy Povey: Very interesting. Look forward to that.Paul Marden: We were excited in Season 6 to break out of the four walls of our little dungeon offices, working via video conferencing and going out and about, weren't we? We absolutely loved visiting the NFAN Conference, ASDC.Paul Marden: We worked from the floor of so many different events, didn't we? And tried lots of formats. And we definitely, definitely want to do more of that. And there's an exciting turn because weekly isn't enough, is it?Andy Povey:  If you're going to do it, go big. Go big or go home.Paul Marden: We have been invited to the IAAPA Europe Conference Expo in Barcelona, no less. And we are going to be coming into your ears daily, not weekly, daily.Paul Marden: So we have got an amazing lineup of people that we are going to be talking to from the conference floor. But there's also so much time to fill. We don't know who we're going to talk to. We're going to be hitting the floor and just grabbing people, just like we did at NFAN. You'll be out, Andy, just hooking people. And we'll be talking to them. And we plan to do those interviews during the day, and Wenalyn and Steve, our long-suffering editorial and production team, will be working furiously through the night to publish the following morning.Andy Povey: Fantastic. So do we need to talk about our launch episode for Season 7?Paul Marden: Yes.Andy Povey: As this is just the trailer.Paul Marden: Yes. So in 29 minutes, I will be recording my launch episode. So I'm meeting with Massimiliano Freddi, who is the IAAPA board chairman. We're going to find out more about Massimiliano. Not only is he the first Italian chairman of IAAPA, which has been in existence for over 100 years, I believe. We are also going to find out about what he does in his day job and the attraction that he runs over in Italy. So that's a very exciting first episode. So we will be launching that episode 17th of September, and then we will be live from Barcelona starting on the 23rd and going out daily from there on for the rest of that week. I mean, what more could we want? Andy Povey: It's justification for the family for me going to Barcelona after just having returned from Menorca so daddy does a holiday work.Paul Marden: We've at least got to walk down Las Rambla and chat about the conference we can't just be within the expo location surely. A little vino tinto on.Andy Povey: I'm sure we will be at Tribudabo at what, in my experience, this is the third time I've been to IAAPA in Barcelona. But the opening night party in Tribudabo has always been one of the most fantastic events I've ever been to. The view over the city at night with rides and superb food, drink and entertainment going off behind you is just  out of this world.Paul Marden: But it's work just for anyone that's listening outside the door right now.Andy Povey: Very hard work for very important people.Paul Marden: Yes so we are still planning out the rest of season seven, obviously going weekly, lots of opportunities for us to talk to lots of people. If you've got ideas for themes or people that we could interview, we are absolutely all ears. So hit us up on LinkedIn, hello@SkiptheQueue.fm, or go to the website, skipthequeue.fm. Yeah, and you'll find all of our contact details and we'd love to hear from you with ideas of what we could do for the rest of this season. What would you find interesting? Apart from that, we're going to sign off. I've got an interview to go to in 25 minutes. We will be back with you on the 17th of September with our first episode and from IAAPA on the 23rd of September for the rest of that week.Andy Povey: You're going to be on IAAPA. Come and find us. Come and have a chat.Paul Marden: Looking forward to it.Paul Marden: Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, the digital agency that creates amazing websites for ambitious visitor attractions.  The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

On Thursday, we spent the afternoon at the Yellow House of the Battles Estate in Girard, PA, owned and maintained by the Hagen History Center/Erie County Historical Society. Sharing the story of the 50 acres of sunflowers in full bloom were staffers Cal Pifer, President and CEO; Geri Cicchetti, Advancement Director; Margaret Pett, Director of Collections & Archives; and Adam Macrino, Director of Programming & Visitor Experience.

What are zines and how have they been used in disability justice? Amelia spoke to Adam Rose, the Co-curator of the Zines display, and Jake Blackavar, a Visitor Experience and Engagement Facilitator, to learn about tactile and audio zines and their upcoming audio described tours of the Wellcome Collection's exhibition. Learn more about Zines Forever! on the The Wellcome Collection Website - Zines Forever! DIY Publishing and Disability Justice | Wellcome Collection Image shows the RNIB Connect Radio logo. On a white background ‘RNIB' written in bold black capital letters and underline with a bold pink line. Underneath the line: ‘Connect Radio' is written in black in a smaller font. 

Dive into over a century of malt-making history with Ron and Jordan from Briess Malt and Ingredients Company. Discover their pivotal role in the rise of craft brewing, memorable milestones, and how they continue to innovate with the perfect malted milk balls!Get some malt: https://food.briess.com/Get tickets to the Malt City Brewfest 2025, hosted by Briess Malt: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/malt-city-brewfest-2025-tickets-1226903995879PATREONSupport the show! Get episodes 1 week early and bonus merch: patreon.com/respectingthebeerpodcastFACEBOOK GROUPGot a question about beer or just want to get social? Join the RtB Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectingthebeerEMAILGot a question? Email us at respectingthebeer@gmail.com--TIMELINE00:00 Welcoming Back Briess Malt00:21 History of Briess Malt and Ingredient Company01:37 The Craft Beer Revolution03:47 Legacy and Impact of Briess06:16 Modern Operations and Innovations15:01 Supply Chain and Production22:51 Visitor Experience at Manitowoc and Chilton24:21 THE Malted Milk Balls26:52 Craft Beer Festival in Manitowoc33:03 Support the show on Patreon!--CREDITSHosts:Bobby FleshmanAllison FleshmanJoel HermansenGary ArdntMusic by Sarah Lynn HussRecorded & Produced by David KalsowBrought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co

A landmark visitor attraction officially opens today in East Clare following a €4.3m refurbishment of a historic building. Described as the region's "most ambitious tourism project to date", the Old Rectory in Mountshannon, which has been standing since 1905 has been transformed to house the Inis Cealtra Visitor Experience. The centre offers panoramic views of Lough Derg, a first floor café, with a modern exhibition space showcasing stories about Holy Island and East Clare's heritage. Clare County Council Tourism Director Siobhán McNulty says it's an exciting new venture.

FIDF CEO Steven Weil is joined by Eitan Amsalem, Director of Visitor Experience, Delegations, and Public Relations at the Museum of Tolerance Jerusalem. Eitan is the curator that created the exhibit on October 7th at the Museum, and he has taken world leaders and ambassadors through this exhibit. Eitan discusses with Steven in detail about the dangers of the Muslim Brotherhood and  elucidates on how the  October 7th attack was planned. Eitan and his team uncovered notes found on the bodies of Hamas terrorists. They created a collection of these notes and translated them. He explains that Hamas gave their officers the title of Sheikhs so that they have the authority to give fatwahs (ordinances) that certain acts that are typically impermissible in Islam are permissible, such as killing women and babies. Eitan also explains that many of the terrorists had a list of Hebrew phrases and words for the operation, including “take off your pants,” which they needed to know how to say in order to rape the women they found on the kibbutzim. They also uncovered documents that elucidate the extent to UNRWA'S involvement in the attack, and on the educational material they provide to Gaza's and Arab villagers which all teach how they are victims of Israeli oppression and must hate Jews. There's a phenomena that was uncovered about the October 7th massacre that is entirely unique, which is that Hamas attempted to eliminate, and in many cases successfully, entire families in one shot, sometimes tying together a married couple with their children and torturing and killing them. Eitan has also consulted with and was given evidence by forensics teams that were onsite following the 10.7 massacre, but didn't go into detail about what the examiners describe and found on the sites. Eitan has also spoken with many survivors of the massacre, and he explains the unimaginable PTSD that they are experiencing.   Eitan closes by stating that the Islam of Hamas, which was distorted and changed in disturbing ways, does not represent the whole of Islam.Donate NOW at FIDF.org for the fastest and most direct way to give IDF Soldiers what they need most. 100% of your contribution will go to meet their emergency humanitarian needs.

Are you missing the real reason locals consider Waimea Valley one of Oahu's most sacred places?For many visitors, Waimea Valley seems like just another waterfall stop—a quick swim and photo opportunity before moving on to the next attraction. But beneath the surface lies a thousand years of Hawaiian history, sacred sites, and living cultural traditions that most tourists completely overlook.If you're planning a trip to Oahu and want your visit to create lasting memories while respecting Hawaiian culture, this episode is for you. Learn how a simple shift in your approach can transform what might seem like a typical tourist stop into a meaningful cultural experience that locals truly appreciate.In this episode of Hawaii's Best, we explore the untold story of Waimea Valley's sacred sites with Executive Director Richard Pezzullo, who shares insider knowledge about the valley's rich history, unique cultural programs, and why 60% of visitors are now choosing not to swim in the waterfall.

The crew visits Maker's Mark and sat down with Thomas Bolton, Senior Manager of Visitor Experience and Education. We discussed his journey to the bourbon world, Maker's Star Hill Farm and how it's built around sustainability and much more. We also tasted through Cellars Age, The Keepers and Heart releases and the most recent and brand new Star Hill Farm.  

In this Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast, the Bourbon Life Crew (minus Chad) spend some time hanging out together in The Bourbon Life enjoying some great conversation and some great pours. The Crew kicks things off with Bourbon Life Jeopardy, inspired by Philip's idea to turn a love of trivia into a spirited game. From there, they dive into three big topics: the grand opening of the new RD1 Distillery and Visitor Experience in Lexington and what it means for the local bourbon scene, a preview of National Bourbon Week with a spotlight on the upcoming Beam Backyard Luau that's set to be one of the summer's biggest bourbon celebrations, and a heartfelt discussion about the recent devastating tornadoes that tore through Kentucky. They talk about how people can support those affected and share resources for getting involved with relief efforts. They also enjoyed three incredible pours that each sparked their own unique conversation: a vintage 1975 Seagram's Benchmark Bourbon, offering a nostalgic glimpse into bourbon's past; the brand new Star Hill Farm Wheat Whisky from Maker's Mark that showcased soft, sweet grain character; and a powerhouse Knob Creek Cask Strength Bluegrass Bartenders Fund Single Barrel Pick, selected to support a great cause while delivering bold, classic flavor. Each pour brought something different to the table and highlighted the diversity and richness of the whiskey world. This Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast is sponsored by Three Chord Bourbon and The Kitchen Table at James B. Beam Distilling Co. Check out all of our amazing sponsors online at:  www.threechordbourbon.com www.visitthekitchentable.com

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your hosts are Paul Marden and Andy Povey.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. Show references:  Anna Preedy, Director M+H Showhttps://show.museumsandheritage.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/annapreedy/Jon Horsfield, CRO at Centegra, a Cinchio Solutions Partnerhttps://cinchio.com/uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-horsfield-957b3a4/Dom Jones, CEO, Mary Rose Trust https://maryrose.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicejones/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/dominic-jonesPaul Woolf, Trustee at Mary Rose Trusthttps://maryrose.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-woolf/Stephen Spencer, Ambience Director, Stephen Spencer + Associateshttps://www.stephenspencerassociates.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/customerexperiencespecialist/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/stephen-spencerSarah Bagg, Founder, ReWork Consultinghttps://reworkconsulting.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahbagg/https://www.skipthequeue.fm/episodes/sarah-baggJeremy Mitchell, Chair of Petersfield Museum and Art Galleryhttps://www.petersfieldmuseum.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremy-mitchell-frsa-4529b95/Rachel Kuhn, Associate Director, BOP Consultinghttps://www.bop.co.uk/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kuhnrachel/  Transcriptions:Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions. You join me today, out and about yet again. This time I am in London at Olympia for the Museums and Heritage Show. Hotly anticipated event in everybody's diary. We all look forward to it. Two days of talks and exhibitions and workshops. Just a whole lot of networking and fun. And of course, we've got the M and H awards as well. So in this episode, I am going to be joined by a number of different people from across the sector, museum and cultural institution professionals, we've got some consultants, we've got some suppliers to the industry, all pretty much giving us their take on what they've seen, what they're doing and what their thoughts are for the year ahead. So, without further ado, let's meet our first guest. Andy Povey: Hi, Anna. Welcome to Skip the Queue. Thank you for giving us some of your time on what must be a massively busy day for you. I wonder if you could just tell the audience who you are, what you do, a little bit about what museums and heritage is, because not everyone listening to the podcast comes from the museum sector. Anna Preedy: Andy, thanks. This is a great opportunity and always really lovely to see your happy smiley face at the Museums and Heritage Show. So M and H, as we're often referred to as, stands for Museums and Heritage and we're a small business that organises the principal trade exhibition for the Museums and Heritage sector that could be broadened, I suppose, into the cultural sector. We also have the awards ceremony for the sector and an online magazine. So we are Museums and Heritage, but we're often referred to as M and H and we've been around for a very long time, 30 plus years. Andy Povey: Oh, my word. Anna Preedy: I know. Andy Povey: And what's your role within the organisation? Your badge says Event Director today. That's one of many hats. Anna Preedy: I'm sure it is one of many hats because we're a very small team. So I own and manage the events, if you like. M and H is my baby. I've been doing it for a very long time. I feel like I'm truly immersed in the world of museums and heritage and would like to think that as a result of that, I kind of understand and appreciate some of the issues and then bring everyone together to actually get in the same room and to talk them through at the show. So, yeah, that's what we're about, really. Andy Povey: In a shorthand and obviously the show. We're in the middle of West London. It's a beautifully sunny day here at Olympia. The show is the culmination, I suppose of 12 months of work. So what actually goes in? What does a normal day look like for you on any month other than May? Anna Preedy: Yeah, it was funny actually. Sometimes people, I think, well, what do you do for the rest of the year? You just turn up to London for a couple of days, just turn up delivering an event like this. And also our award scheme is literally three, six, five days of the year job. So the moment we leave Olympia in London, we're already planning the next event. So it really is all encompassing. So I get involved in a lot. As I say, we're a small team, so I'm the person that tends to do most of the programming for the show. So we have 70 free talks. Everything at the show is free to attend, is free to visit. So we have an extensive programme of talks. We have about 170 exhibitors. Anna Preedy: So I'm, although I have a sales team for that, I'm managing them and looking after that and working with some of those exhibitors and then I'm very much involved in our awards. So the Museums and Heritage Awards look to celebrate and reward the very best in our sector and shine the spotlight on that not just in the UK but around the world. So we have a judging panel and I coordinate that. So pretty much every decision, I mean you look at the colour of the carpet, that which incidentally is bright pink, you look at the colour of the carpet here, who made the decision what colour it would be in the aisles this year it was me. So I, you know, I do get heavily involved in all the nitty gritty as well as the biggest strategic decisions. Andy Povey: Fantastic. Here on the show floor today it is really busy, there are an awful lot of people there. So this is all testament to everything that you've done to make this the success that it is. I'm sure that every exhibitor is going to walk away with maybe not a full order book, but definitely a fistful of business cards. Anna Preedy: I think that's it, what we really want. And we sort of build this event as the big catch up and we do that for a reason. And that is really to kind of give two days of the year people put those in their diary. It's a space where people can come together. So you know, there'll be people here standing on stands who obviously and understandably want to promote their product or service and are looking to generate new business. And then our visitors are looking for those services and enjoying the talks and everyone comes together and it's an opportunity to learn and network and connect and to do business in the broadest possible sense. Really. Andy Povey: No, I think that the line, the big catch up really sums the show up for me. I've been. I think I worked out on the way in this morning. It's the 15th time I've been to the show. It's one of my favourite in the year because it is a fantastic mix of the curatorial, the commercial, everything that goes into running a successful museum or heritage venue. Anna Preedy: I mean, it's funny when people ask me to summarise. I mean, for a start, it's quite difficult. You know, really, it should be museums, galleries, heritage, visitor, attractions, culture. You know, it is a very diverse sector and if you think about everything that goes into making a museum or a gallery or a historic house function, operate, engage, it's as diverse as the organisational types are themselves and we try and bring all of that together. So, you know, whether you are the person that's responsible for generating income in your organisation, and perhaps that might be retail or it might be catering, it could be any. Any stream of income generation, there's going to be content for you here just as much as there's going to be content for you here. Anna Preedy: If you are head of exhibitions or if you are perhaps wearing the marketing hat and actually your job is, you know, communications or audience development, we try and represent the sector in its broadest scope. So there is something for everyone, quite. Andy Povey: Literally, and that's apparent just from looking on the show floor. So with all of your experience in the museum sector, and I suppose you get to see. See quite an awful lot of new stuff, new products. So what are you anticipating happening in the next sort of 6 to 12 months in our sector? Anna Preedy: I mean, that's a big question because, you know, going back to what were just saying, and the kind of different verticals, if you like, that sit within the sector, but I think the obvious one probably has to be AI, and the influence of that. I'm not saying that's going to change everything overnight. It won't, but it's. You can see the ripples already and you can see that reflected out here on the exhibition floor with exhibitors, and you can also see it in our programme. So this sort of AI is only, you know, one aspect of, you know, the bigger, wider digital story. But I just think it's probably more about the sector evolving than it is about, you know, grand sweeping changes in any one direction. Anna Preedy: But the other thing to say, of course, is that as funding gets more the sort of the economic landscape, you know, is tough. Undeniably so. So generating revenue and finding new ways to do that and prioritising it within your organisation, but not at the expense of everything else that's done. And it should never be at the expense of everything else that's done. And it's perfectly possible to do both. Nobody's suggesting that it's easy, nothing's easy but, you know, it's possible. Anna Preedy: And I think the show here, and also what we do online in terms of, you know, news and features, all of that, and what other organisations are doing in this sector, of course, and the partners we work with, but I think just helping kind of bridge that gap really, and to provide solutions and to provide inspiration and actually, you know, there's no need to reinvent the wheel constantly. Actually, I think it was somebody that worked in the sector. I'm reluctant to names, but there was somebody I remember once saying, well, know, stealing with glee is kind of, you know, and I think actually, you know, if you see somebody else is doing something great and actually we see that in our wards, you know, that's the whole point. Let's shine a spotlight on good work. Well, that might inspire someone else. Anna Preedy: It's not about ripping something off and it's not absolute replication. But actually, you know, scalable changes in your organisation that may have been inspired by somebody else's is only a good thing as well. Andy Povey: It's all that evolutionary process, isn't it? So, great experience. Thank you on behalf of everybody that's come to the show today. Anna Preedy: Well, thank you very much. I love doing it, I really genuinely do and there is nothing like the buzz of a busy event. Jon Horsfield: Yeah, My name is Jon Horsfield, I'm the Chief Revenue Officer of Cincio Solutions. Andy Povey: And what does Cincio do? Jon Horsfield: We provide F and B technology, so kiosks, point of sale payments, kitchen systems, inventory, self checkout to the museums, heritage zoos, aquariums and hospitality industries. Andy Povey: Oh, fantastic. So I understand this is your first time here at the Museums and Heritage Show. Jon Horsfield: It is our first time. It's been an interesting learning curve. Andy Povey: Tell me more. Jon Horsfield: Well, our background is very much within the hospitality. We've been operating for about 20 to 23 years within the sort of high street hospitality side of things. Some of our London based listeners may have heard of Leon Restaurants or Coco Di Mama, we've been working with them for over 20 years. But we're looking at ways of bringing that high street technology into other industries and other Verticals and the museums and heritage is a vertical that we've identified as somewhere that could probably do with coming into the 21st century with some of the technology solutions available. Andy Povey: I hear what you're saying. So what do you think of the show? What are your first impressions? Give me your top three tips. Learning points. Jon Horsfield: Firstly, this industry takes a long time to get to know people. It seems to be long lead times. That's the first learning that we've had. Our traditional industry in hospitality, people will buy in this industry. It's going to take some time and we're happy about that. We understand that. So for us, this is about learning about know about how the industry works. Everybody's really friendly. Andy Povey: We try. Yeah. Jon Horsfield: That's one of the first things that we found out with this. This industry is everybody is really friendly and that's quite nice. Even some of our competitors, we're having nice conversations with people. Everybody is really lovely. The third point is the fact that I didn't know that there were so many niche markets and I found out where my mother buys her scarves and Christmas presents from. So it's been really interesting seeing the different types of things that people are looking for. We've sort of noticed that it's really about preservation. That's one of the main areas. There's a lot of things about preservation. Another one is about the display, how things are being displayed, and lots of innovative ways of doing that. But also the bit that we're really interested in is the commercialization. Jon Horsfield: There's a real push within the industry to start to commercialise things and bring in more revenue from the same people. Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's all about securing the destiny so that you're not reliant on funding from external parties or government and you taking that control. So what do you do at Centrio that helps? Jon Horsfield: Well, first of all. First of all, I would say the efficiencies that we can bring with back office systems integrations. We're very well aware of what we do, we're also aware of what we don't do. So, for example, we're not a ticketing provider, we're a specialist retail and F and B supplier. So it's about building those relationships and actually integrating. We've got a lot of integrations available and we're very open to that. So that's the first thing. But one of the key things that we're trying to bring to this industry is the way that you can use technology to increase revenue. So the kiosks that we've got here, it's proven that you'll get a minimum average transaction value increase of 10 to 15%. Andy Povey: And what do you put that down to? Jon Horsfield: The ability to upsell. Okay, with kiosks, as long as, if you put, for example, with a burger, if you just have a nice little button, say would you like the bacon fries with that? It's an extra few pounds. Well, actually if you've got an extra few pounds on every single transaction, that makes an incredible difference to the bottom line. From the same number of customers. Some of our clients over in the USA have seen an ATV increase above to 60% with the use of kiosks. Andy Povey: And that's just through selling additional fries. Jon Horsfield: Exactly. People will. I went to a talk many years ago when people started to adopt kiosks and the traditional thing is the fact that people will order two Big Macs and a fries to a kiosk, but when you go face to face, they will not order two Big Macs and a fries. Andy Povey: So you're saying I'm a shy fatty who's basically. Jon Horsfield: Absolutely not. Absolutely not, Andy. Absolutely not. So that's really what it's about. It's about using the sort of the high street technology and applying that to a different industry and trying to bring everybody along with us. Dominic Jones: And you need to listen to the Skip the Queue. It's the best podcast series ever. It'll give you this industry. Paul Marden: Perfect. That was a lovely little sound bite. Dom, welcome. Dominic Jones: It's the truth. It's the truth. I love Skip the Queue. Paul Marden: Welcome back to Skip the Queue. Paul, welcome. For your first time, let's just start with a quick introduction. Dom, tell everybody about yourself. Dominic Jones: So I'm Dominic Jones, I'm the chief executive of the Mary Rose Trust and I'm probably one of Skip the Queue's biggest fans. Paul Marden: I love it. And biggest stars. Dominic Jones: Well, I don't know. At one point I was number one. Paul Marden: And Paul, what about yourself? What's your world? Paul Woolf: Well, I'm Paul Woolf, I've just joined the Mary Rose as a trustee. Dom's been kind of hunting me down politely for a little bit of time. When he found out that I left the King's Theatre, he was very kind and said, right, you know, now you've got time on your hands, you know, would you come over and help? So yeah, so my role is to support Dom and to just help zhuzh things up a bit, which is kind of what I do and just bring some new insights into the business and to develop It a bit. And look at the brand, which is where my skills. Dominic Jones: Paul is underselling himself. He is incredible. And the Mary Rose Trust is amazing. You haven't visited. You should visit. We're in Portsmouth Historic Dock blog. But what's great about it is it's about attracting great people. I'm a trustee, so I'm a trustee for good whites. I'm a trustee for pomp in the community. I know you're a trustee for kids in museums. I love your posts and the fact that you come visit us, but it's about getting the right team and the right people and Paul has single handedly made such a difference to performance art in the country, but also in Portsmouth and before that had a massive career in the entertainment. So we're getting a talent. It's like getting a Premiership player. And we got Paul Woolf so I am delighted. Dominic Jones: And we brought him here to the Museum Heritage show to say this is our industry because we want him to get sucked into it because he is going to be incredible. You honestly, you'll have a whole episode on him one day. Paul Marden: And this is the place to come, isn't it? Such a buzz about the place. Paul Woolf: I've gone red. I've gone red. Embarrassed. Paul Marden: So have you seen some talks already? What's been impressive for you so far, Paul? Paul Woolf: Well, we did actually with the first talk we were listening to was all about touring and reducing your environmental impact on touring, which is quite interesting. And what I said there was that, you know, as time gone by and we had this a little bit at theatre actually. But if you want to go for grant funding today, the first question on the grant funding form, almost the first question after the company name and how much money you want is environmental impact. Paul Marden: Yeah, yeah. Paul Woolf: And so if you're going tour and we're looking now, you know, one of the things that Dom and I have been talking about is, you know, Mary Rose is brilliant. It's fantastic. You know, it's great. It's in the dockyard in Portsmouth and you know, so. And, and the Andes, New York, you know, everywhere. Dominic Jones: Take her on tour. Paul Woolf: Why isn't it on tour? Yeah. Now I know there are issues around on tour. You know, we've got the collections team going. Yeah, don't touch. But nonetheless it was interesting listening to that because obviously you've got to. Now you can't do that. You can't just put in a lorry, send it off and. And so I thought that was quite interesting. Dominic Jones: Two, it's all the industry coming together. It's not about status. You can come here as a student or as a CEO and you're all welcome. In fact, I introduced Kelly from Rubber Cheese, your company, into Andy Povey and now you guys have a business together. And I introduced them here in this spot outside the men's toilets at Museum and Heritage. Paul Woolf: Which is where we're standing, by the way. Everybody, we're outside the toilet. Dominic Jones: It's the networking, it's the talks. And we're about to see Bernard from ALVA in a minute, who'll be brilliant. Paul Marden: Yes. Dominic Jones: But all of these talks inspire you and then the conversations and just seeing you Andy today, I'm so delighted. And Skip the Queue. He's going from strength to strength. I love the new format. I love how you're taking it on tour. You need to bring it to the May Rose next. Right. Paul Marden: I think we might be coming sometimes soon for a conference near you. Dominic Jones: What? The Association of Independent Museums? Paul Marden: You might be doing an AIM conference with you. Dominic Jones: Excellent. Paul Marden: Look, guys, it's been lovely to talk to you. Enjoy the rest of your day here at M and H. Paul Marden: Stephen, welcome back to Skip the Queue. Stephen Spencer: Thank you very much. Paul Marden: For listeners, remind them what you do. Stephen Spencer: So I'm Stephen Spencer. My company, Stephen Spencer Associates, we call ourselves the Ambience Architects because we try to help every organisation gain deeper insight into the visitor experience as it's actually experienced by the visitor. I know it sounds a crazy idea, really, to achieve better impact and engagement from visitors and then ultimately better sustainability in all senses for the organisation. Paul Marden: For listeners, the Ambience Lounge here at M and H is absolutely rammed at the moment. Stephen Spencer: I'm trying to get in myself. Paul Marden: I know, it's amazing. So what are you hoping for this networking lounge? Stephen Spencer: Well, what we're aiming to do is create a space for quality conversations, for people to meet friends and contacts old and new, to discover new technologies, new ideas or just really to come and have a sounding board. So we're offering free one to one advice clinic. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Stephen Spencer: Across a whole range of aspects of the visitor journey, from core mission to revenue generation and storytelling. Because I think, you know, one of the things we see most powerfully being exploited by the successful organisations is that kind of narrative thread that runs through the whole thing. What am I about? Why is that important? Why should you support me? How do I deliver that and more of it in every interaction? Paul Marden: So you're Having those sorts of conversations here with people on a one to one basis. Stephen Spencer: Then we also are hosting the structured networking event. So all of the sector support organisations that are here, they have scheduled networking events when really people can just come and meet their peers and swap experiences and again find new people to lean on and be part of an enriched network. Paul Marden: Absolutely. So we are only half a day in, not even quite half a day into a two day programme. So it's very early to say, but exciting conversations, things are going in the direction that you hoped for. Stephen Spencer: Yes, I think, I mean, we know that the sector is really challenged at the moment, really, the fact that we're in now such a crazy world of total constant disruption and uncertainty. But equally we offer something that is reassuring, that is enriching, it's life enhancing. We just need to find better ways to, to do that and reach audiences and reach new audiences and just keep them coming back. And the conversations that I've heard so far have been very much around that. So it's very exciting. Paul Marden: Excellent. One of themes of this episode that we'll be talking to lots of people about is a little bit of crystal ball gazing. You're right, the world is a hugely, massively disrupted place at the moment. But what do you see the next six or 12 months looking like and then what does it look like for the sector in maybe a five year time horizon? Stephen Spencer: Okay, well, you don't ask easy questions. So I think there will be a bit of a kind of shaking down in what we understand to be the right uses of digital technology, AI. I think we see all the mistakes that were made with social media and what it's literally done to the world. And whilst there are always examples of, let's say, museums using social media very cleverly and intelligently, we know that's against the backdrop of a lot of negativity and harm. So why would we want to repeat that, for example, with generative AI? Paul Marden: Indeed. Stephen Spencer: So I heard a talk about two years ago at the VAT conference about using AI to help the visitor to do the stuff that is difficult for them to do. In other words, to help them build an itinerary that is right for them. And I think until everyone is doing that, then they should be very wary of stepping off the carpet to try and do other things with it. Meanwhile, whilst it's an immersive experience, it is not just sitting in, you know, with all respect to those that do this, A, you know, surround sound visual box, it is actually what it's always been, which is meeting real people in authentic spaces and places, you know, using all the senses to tell stories. So I think we will need to see. Stephen Spencer: I've just been given a great coffee because that's the other thing we're offering in the coffee. It's good coffee. Not saying you can't get anywhere else in the show, just saying it's good here. Yeah. I think just some realism and common sense creeping into what we really should be using these technologies for and not leaving our visitors behind. I mean, for example, you know, a huge amount of the natural audience for the cultural sector. You know, people might not want to hear it, but we all know it's true. It's older people. And they aren't necessarily wanting to have to become digital natives to consume culture. So we shouldn't just say, you know, basically, unless you'll download our app, unless you'll do everything online, you're just going to be left behind. That's crazy. It doesn't make good business sense and it's not right. Stephen Spencer: So I just think some common sense and some. Maybe some regulation that will happen around uses of AI that might help and also, you know, around digital harms and just getting back to some basics. I was talking to a very old colleague earlier today who had just come back from a family holiday to Disney World, and he said, you know, you can't beat it, you cannot beat it. For that is immersive. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. But it's not sealed in a box. Stephen Spencer: No, no. And it really. It's a bit like Selfridges. I always took out. My favourite store is Selfridges. It still does what Harry Gordon Selfridge set out to do. He said, "Excite the mind and the hand will reach for the pocket." I always say. He didn't say excite the eye, he said, excite the mind. Paul Marden: Yeah. Stephen Spencer: The way you do that is through all the senses. Paul Marden: Amazing. Stephen Spencer: And so, you know, digital. I'm sure he'd be embracing that. He would be saying, what about the rest of it? Paul Marden: How do you add the human touch to that? Yeah. I was at Big Pit last week. Stephen Spencer: As they reopened, to see this. Yeah. Paul Marden: And it was such an amazing experience walking through that gift shop. They have so subtly brought the museum into the gift shop and blended the two really well. Stephen Spencer: Yes. And I think that raises the bar. And again, if you want to make more money as a museum, you need to be embracing that kind of approach, because if you just carry on doing what you've always done, your revenue will go down. Paul Marden: Yes. Stephen Spencer: And we all know your revenue needs to go up because other. Other sources of income will be going down. Paul Marden: Sarah, welcome back to Skip the Queue last time you were here, there was a much better looking presenter than, you were in the Kelly era. Sarah Bagg: Yes, we were. Paul Marden: It's almost as if there was a demarcation line before Kelly and after Kelly. Why don't you just introduce yourself for me? Tell the listeners what it is that you do. Sarah Bagg: So I'm Sarah Bagg. I'm the founder of Rework Consulting. The last time I spoke, it wasn't that long after our launch. I think like two and a half years ago. We've just had our third birthday. Paul Marden: Wow. Sarah Bagg: Which is completely incredible. When we first launched rework, were specifically for the visitor attractions industry and focused on ticketing. Paul Marden: Yep. Sarah Bagg: So obviously we are a tech ticketing consultancy business. In the last three and a half years we've grown and now have five verticals. So attractions are one of them. Paul Marden: And who else do you work with then? Sarah Bagg: So the art, the leisure industry. So whether it be activity centres, cinemas, bowling centres and then live entertainment. So it could be anything from sports, festivals etc and the arts, like theatres or. Paul Marden: So closely aligned to your attractions. Then things that people go and do but different kinds of things loosely. Sarah Bagg: Say they're like live entertainment. Paul Marden: I like that. That's a nice description. So this must be Mecca for you to have all of these people brought together telling amazing stories. Sarah Bagg: I think how I would sum up museum and heritage today is that I think we're kind of going through a period of like being transformed, almost like back. People are reconstructing, connecting with real experiences and with people. Paul Marden: Yeah. Sarah Bagg: And I would like to think that tech is invisible and they're just to support the experience. I think there's a lot of things that are going on at the moment around, you know, bit nostalgia and people dragging themselves back to the 90s. And there's a lot of conversations about people and customer service and experience. And although technology plays a huge part in that, I would still like to think that people come first and foremost, always slightly weird from a technology consultant. Paul Marden: Well, nobody goes to a visitor attraction to be there on their own and interact with technology. That's not the point of being there. Yeah. Interesting talks that you've been today. Sarah Bagg: I think one of my favourite was actually one of the first of the day, which was about. Of how do you enhance the visitor experience through either like music and your emotions and really tapping into how you feel through, like all your different senses. Which was one of Stephen's talks which I really enjoyed. Paul Marden: That's really interesting. Sarah Bagg: I think if people like look at the visitor industry and across the board, that's why I'm so keen to stay, like across four different sectors, we can learn so much pulling ideas from like hospitality and restaurants and bars.Paul Marden: Completely. Sarah Bagg: Even if you think about like your best, there's a new bar there, so you can not very far from my home in Brighton and the service is an amazing. And the design of the space really caters for whether you're in there with 10 people or whether you're sat at the bar on your own. It doesn't exclude people, depending on what age you are or why you gone into the bar. And I think we can learn a lot in the visitor attractions industry because there's been a lot of talk about families today. I don't have children and I think that there, you need. Sarah Bagg: We need to think more about actually that lots of other people go to visitor attractions Paul Marden: Completely. Sarah Bagg: And they don't necessarily take children and they might want to go on their own. Yes, but what are we doing to cater for all of those people? There's nothing. Paul Marden: How do you make them feel welcome? How do you make them feel like they're a first class guest? The same as everybody else. Yeah. So where do you see the sector going over the next few years based on what you've seen today? Sarah Bagg: I think there'll be a lot more diversification between sectors. There's definitely a trend where people have got their assets. You know, like if you're looking at things like safari parks and zoos, places that have already got accommodation, but maybe like stately houses where there used to be workers that were living in those cottages or whatever, that they're sweating their assets. I think it would be interesting to see where tech takes us with that because there has been a tradition in the past that if you've got like, if your number one priority to sell is being like your hotel, then you would have like a PMS solution. But if it's the other way around, your number one priority is the attraction or the venue and you happen to have some accommodation, then how is that connecting to your online journey? Sarah Bagg: Because the last thing you want is like somebody having to do two separate transactions. Paul Marden: Oh, completely drives me crazy. Sarah Bagg: One thing I would also love to see is attractions thinking beyond their 10 till 6 opening hours completely. Because some days, like restaurants, I've seen it, you know, maybe they now close on Mondays and Tuesdays so they can give their staff a day off and they have different opening hours. Why are attractions still fixated in like keeping these standard opening hours? Because actually you might attract a completely different audience. There used to be a bit of a trend for like doing museum late. So I was speaking to a museum not very long ago about, you know, do they do like morning tours, like behind the scenes, kind of before it even opens. And I think the museum particularly said to me, like, "Oh, we're fine as we are.". Paul Marden: I've never met a museum that feels fine where it is at the moment. Sarah Bagg: But I guess the one thing I would love to see if I could sprinkle my fairy dus. Paul Marden: Come the revolution and you're in charge. Sarah Bagg: And it's not like, it's not even like rocket science, it's more investment into training and staff because the people that work in our industry are like the gold, you know, it's not tech, it's not pretty set works, it's not like fancy display cases. Yes, the artefacts and stuff are amazing. Paul Marden: But the stories, the people stuff. Yeah. Sarah Bagg: Give them empowerment and training and make the customer feel special. Paul Marden: Yes. Sarah Bagg: When you leave, like you've had that experience, you're only ever going to get that from through the people that you interact with completely. Paul Marden: Jeremy, hello. Welcome to Skip the Queue. We are, we are being slightly distracted by a dinosaur walking behind us. Such is life at M and H show. Jeremy Mitchell: Yeah. Paul Marden: So. Jeremy Mitchell: Well, anything to do with museums and dinosaurs, always great crowd pleasers. Paul Marden: Exactly, exactly. So is this your first time at M and H or have you been before? Jeremy Mitchell: Been before, but probably not for 10 years or more. It was, yes. I remember last time I came the theatres were enclosed so they were partitioned all the way around. Paul Marden: Right. Jeremy Mitchell: But because it's so popular now that would not just not would not work. It's a long time ago. It shows how long I've been volunteering. Paul Marden: In museums, doesn't it? So for our listeners, Jeremy, just introduce yourself and tell everyone about the role that you've got at the Petersfield Museum. Jeremy Mitchell: Okay, so I'm Jeremy Mitchell. I'm a trustee at Petersfield Museum now Petersfield Museum and Art Gallery. I'm actually now chair of trustees. Paul Marden: Paint a little picture for us of Petersfield Museum then. What could someone expect if they came to you? Apart from, as I understand, a very good cup of coffee. Jeremy Mitchell: A very good cup of coffee. Best in Petersfield. And that's not bad when there are 32 competitors. You'll get a little bit of everything you'll get a bit of. You'll get the story of Petersfield, but you'll get so much more. We've got collections of costume going back to the mid 18th century. We've got work of a local artist, Flora Torte, one of those forgotten female artists from between the wars. She's a story that we will be exploring. We've got, in partnership with the Edward Thomas Fellowship, a big archive of books and other artefacts by and about Edward Thomas, who was a poet, writer, literary critic. He's one of the poets killed in the First World War. But he's not well known as a war poet because he was writing about the impact of war on life at home. Jeremy Mitchell: So he's now more well known as a nature poet. Paul Marden: So you're telling the story not just of the place, you're telling the story of the people that have produced great art or had an impact on Petersfield. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. And their networks and how they might relate to Petersfield in turn. And we've got the costume collection I mentioned going back to the mid 18th century, which came from Bedale School. They've all got stories to them. Paul Marden: Interesting. Jeremy Mitchell: This came from Bedale School, which is a private school on the edge of Petersfield. It was actually collected by their drama teacher between the 1950s and the 1970s. Paul Marden: Wow. Jeremy Mitchell: Because she believed in authenticity. So if she was putting on a 19th century production, she would want genuine 19th century clothes. Paul Marden: Let me tell you, my drama productions in a 1980s comprehensive did not include authentic 19th century costumes. Jeremy Mitchell: If were doing something like that at school, their parents would have been, all right, go down to the jumble sale, buy some material, make something that looks something like it. Paul Marden: Yeah. Jeremy Mitchell: But no, she was, well, if you haven't got anything in your attic that's suitable, please send me some money because there's a sale at Sotheby's in three months. Time off costume from the period. Paul Marden: Excellent. Jeremy Mitchell: And we've got some lovely pieces in there. When we put on the Peggy Guggenheim exhibition, which is what were talking about earlier today here, were able to bring in costume from the 1930s, Chanel dress, other high quality, not. Not necessarily worn by Peggy Guggenheim, but her. Paul Marden: Authentic of the period. Jeremy Mitchell: Authentic of the period. But her son was at Bedale, so she could have been asked to donate. Paul Marden: So. Okay. Jeremy Mitchell: Highly unlikely, but it was similar to items that she had been photographed in or would have been. Would have been wearing. Paul Marden: So tell me about the. The presentation. How was that? Jeremy Mitchell: It went so quickly. Paul Marden: Oh, yes. You get in the zone don't you? Jeremy Mitchell: You get in the zone. But it flowed and Louise was great. Louise had done the bulk of the. The work. She prepared the presentation that visually told the story of the exhibition and its outcomes and impacts. And I filled in the boring book, I call it the BBC, the boring but crucial. How we funded it, how we organised the project, management around it, the planning and getting buy in from the rest of the trustees at the beginning, because it was potentially a big financial commitment if we hadn't been able to fund it. Paul Marden: Isn't it interesting? So coming to an event like this is always. There's always so much to learn, it's always an enriching experience to come. But it's a great opportunity, isn't it, for a small museum and art gallery such as Petersfield? It feels a little bit like you're punching above your weight, doesn't it, to be invited onto this stage to talk about it. But really you're telling this amazing story and it's of interest to everybody that's here. Jeremy Mitchell: We want to share it. If we've been able to do it, then why can't they? Why can't you? Why can't we all do it? And yes, you need the story, but if you dig deep enough, those stories are there. Paul Marden: Absolutely, Absolutely. One of the things that is a real common conversation here, M and H, is looking forward, crystal ball gazing, talking. There's challenges in the sector, isn't there? There's lots of challenges around funding and I guess as a small museum, you must feel those choppy waters quite acutely. Jeremy Mitchell: Definitely. I mean, we're an independent museum, so we're not affected by spending cuts because we don't get any funding from that area. But the biggest challenge is from the funding perspective. Yes, we have a big income gap every year that we need to bridge. And now that so much more of the sector is losing what was its original core funding, they're all fishing in the same pond as us and they've got. Invariably they've got a fundraising team probably bigger than our entire museum team, let alone the volunteer fundraiser that we've got. So, yes, it is a challenge and you are having to run faster just to stand still. The ability to put on an exhibition like Peggy Guggenheim shows that we are worth it. Paul Marden: Yes, absolutely. Jeremy Mitchell: And the Guggenheim was funded by Art Fund Western loan programme and an Arts Council project grant. And it was a large Arts Council project grant. Paul Marden: So although everyone's fishing in the same pond as you're managing to yeah. To stretch my analogy just a little bit too far, you are managing to. To get some grant funding and. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. Paul Marden: And lift some tiddlers out the pond. Jeremy Mitchell: Yes. But it was quite clear that with Peggy it was a story that had to be told. Paul Marden: So we talked a little bit about challenging times. But one of the big opportunities at M and H is to be inspired to think about where the opportunities are going forwards. You've had a day here today. What are you thinking as inspiration as next big things for Petersfield Museum. Jeremy Mitchell: I'm finding that really difficult because we're small, we're a small site, Arkansas, I think has got to be a way forward. I miss the talk. But they're all being recorded. Paul Marden: Yes. Jeremy Mitchell: So I shall be picking that one up with interest. But AR is something. We've got police cells. Well, we've got a police cell. Paul Marden: Okay. Jeremy Mitchell: Now, wouldn't it be great to tell an augmented reality story of Victorian justice to kids? Paul Marden: Yes. Jeremy Mitchell: While they're sat in a victory in a Victorian police cell on a hard wooden bench. That is the original bench that this prisoners would have slept on. Paul Marden: I've done enough school visits to know there's enough kids that I could put in a jail just to keep them happy or to at least keep them quiet whilst the rest of us enjoy our visit. Yes. I feel like I need to come to Petersfield and talk more about Peggy because I think there might be an entire episode of Skip the Queue to talk just about putting on a big exhibition like that. Jeremy Mitchell: Yeah, no, definitely. If you drop me an email you can skip the queue and I'll take you around. Paul Marden: Oh lovely, Rachel, welcome to Skip the Queue. You join me here at M and H show. And we've taken over someone's stand, haven't we? I know, it feels a bit weird, doesn't it? Rachel Kuhn: I feel like we're squatting but I. Paul Marden: Feel a little bit like the Two Ronnies, cuz we're sat behind the desk. It's very strange. Which one are you? Anyway, just for listeners. Introduce yourself for me. Tell listeners what it is that you do at BOP Consulting. Rachel Kuhn: Yeah, so I'm Rachel Kuhn, I'm an associate director at BOP and we specialise in culture and the creative economy and kind of working across everything that is to do with culture and creative economy globally. But I lead most of our strategy and planning projects, particularly in the UK and Ireland, generally working with arts, heritage, cultural organisations, from the very earliest big picture strategy through to real nitty gritty sort of operational plans and outside of bop. I'm a trustee for Kids in Museums, where we love to hang, and also a new trustee with the Postal Museum. Paul Marden: Given what you do at bop, this must be like the highlight of the year for you to just soak up what everybody is doing. Rachel Kuhn: I love it. I mean, it's so lovely just going around, chatting to everybody, listening in on the talks and I think that spirit of generosity, you know, like, it just comes across, doesn't it? And it just reminds me why I love this sector, why I'm here. You know, everyone wants to, you know, contribute and it's that whole sort of spirit of what do they say? We know when the tide rises, so do all the boats or all the ships. And I feel like that's the spirit here and it's lovely. Paul Marden: It is such a happy place and it's such a busy, vibrant space, isn't it? What have been the standout things for you that you've seen today? Rachel Kuhn: I think probably on that spirit of generosity. Rosie Baker at the founding museum talking about the incredible work they've done with their events, hires, programmes. Obviously got to give a shout out to the Association of Cultural Enterprise. I've been doing a lot of hanging out there at their stage day. So Gurdon gave us the rundown of the benchmarking this morning. Some really good takeaways from that and Rachel Mackay, I mean, like, obviously. Paul Marden: Want to go into. Rachel Kuhn: You always want to see her. Really good fun, but lovely to hear. She's talking about her strategy, the Visitor Experience strategy. And you know what, I spend so much time going into places looking at these sub strategies, like visual experience strategies that just haven't been written in alignment with the overall strategy. So it's lovely to see that linking through, you know, and obviously I'm from a Visitor Experience background, so hugely passionate about the way that Visitor Experience teams can make visitors feel the organization's values. And that alignment was really impressive. So, yeah, really lovely and loads of great takeaways from all those talks. Paul Marden: I will just say for listeners, all of these talks have been recorded, so everyone's going to be able to download the materials. It take a couple of weeks before they were actually published. But one of the questions that I've asked everybody in these vox pops has been, let's do some crystal ball gazing. It's. It stinks at the moment, doesn't it? The, the, the economy is fluctuating, there is so much going on. What do you see 6 to 12 month view look like? And then let's really push the boat out. Can we crystal ball gaze maybe in five years? Rachel Kuhn: Yeah.  I mean, look, I think the whole problem at the moment and what's causing that sort of nervousness is there's just a complete lack of surety about loads of things. You know, in some ways, you know, many organisations have welcomed the extension for the MPO round, the current round, but for many, you know, that's just pushed back the opportunity to get in on that round that little bit further away. It's caused that sort of nervousness with organisations are having to ride on with the same funding that they asked for some years ago that just doesn't, you know, match, you know, and it's actually a real time cut for them. Paul Marden: Absolutely. Rachel Kuhn: So I think, very hard to say, I don't know that there's much I can say. I feel like as at sea as everyone else, I think about what the landscape looks like in the next six months, but I think that never has there been, you know, a better time than something like this like the M and H show. You know, this is about coming together and being generous and sharing that information and I think reaching out to each other and making sure that we're sort of cross pollinating there. There's so much good stuff going on and we've always been really good at that and I think sometimes when we're feeling a bit down, it feels like, oh, I just don't want to go to something like this and meet others and, you know, get into a bit of a misery cycle. Rachel Kuhn: But actually it's so uplifting to be at something like this. And I think, you know, what we've seen here is at the show today, I think, is organisations being really generous with their experience and their expertise. Suppliers and consultants and supporters of the sector being really generous with their time and their expertise and actually just shows just spending a bit of time with each other, asking things of each other. We've just got loads of stuff to share and we're all really up for it. And I think that generosity is so critical and I mean, obviously I'm going to plug, I've got to plug it. Rachel Kuhn: So, you know, if you are a supplier, if you are a commercial business working in this sector, it might be tough times for you, but it's certainly nowhere near as hard as it is for the arts and cultural heritage organisations in the sector. You know, reach out to them and see how you can support them and help them. I mean, you and I have both been on a bit of a drive recently to try and drum up some sponsorship and corporate support for kids in museums who, you know, an Arts council MPO who we're incredible, incredibly proud to represent and, you know, do reach out to us. If you've been thinking, oh, I just want to sponsor something and I'd love to sponsor us. Paul Marden: Exactly. I mean, there's loads of opportunities when you take kids in museums as an example, loads of opportunities for. And this is what Arts Council wants us to do. They want us to be more independent, to generate more of our own funding and we've got a great brand, we do some amazing work and there's lots of opportunities for those commercial organisations who align with our values to help to support us. Rachel Kuhn: So I think you asked me there about what's in the next year. So next year, six months, I don't know is the answer. I think it's just a difficult time. So my advice is simply get out there, connect, learn from each other, energise each other, bring each other up. Let's not get into that sort of doom cycle. That's very easy next five years. You know what, I've had some really interesting meetings and conversations over the last. Well, one particularly interesting one today, some other ones about some funds that might be opening up, which I think is really exciting. You know, we've seen this really big challenge with funding, you know, slowing funding going in much larger amounts to a smaller number of large organisations and that causes real problems. But I think there might be a small turnaround on that. Rachel Kuhn: I'm not crumbs in the earth. I think it's still tough times. But that was really exciting to hear about. I'm also seeing here at the show today. I've been speaking to a lot of suppliers whose their models seem to be shifting a lot. So a lot more opportunities here where it requires no investment from the attraction and a lot more sort of interesting and different types of profit share models, which I think is really interesting. So I think the other thing I'd say is if you're an attraction, don't discount partnering some of these organisations because actually, you know, go and talk to them. Rachel Kuhn: Don't just, don't just count them out because you think you haven't got anything to invest because many of them are visiting new models and the couple that I've spoken to who aren't, learn from your competitors and start doing some different models. And I think that's been really interesting to hear some very different models here for some of the products, which is really exciting. Paul Marden: It is really hard sitting on the other side of the fence, as a supplier, we need cash flow as well. We've got to pay bills and all of those sorts of things. But you're right, there are interesting ways in which we all want to have a conversation. As you say, don't sit back afraid to engage in the conversation because you've got nothing to invest, you've got an important brand, you've got an audience. Those are valuable assets that a supplier like us would want to partner with you to help you to bring a project to life. And that might be on a rev share model, it might be on a service model. There's lots of different ways you can slice it and dice it. Rachel Kuhn: And going back, on a closing note, I suppose, going back to that generosity thing, don't think because you haven't got any money to commission, you know, a supplier to the sector or a commercial company, that you can't reach out to them. Like, you know, we are in this because we really want to support these organisations. This is our passion. You know, many of us are from the sector. You know, I will always connect somebody or introduce somebody or find a way to get a little bit of pro bono happening, or, you know, many of my colleagues are on advisory committees, we're board members. And I think that's the same for so many of the companies that are, like, working with the sector. You know, reach out and ask for freebie, you know, don't ask, don't get. Paul Marden: Yeah, exactly. Rachel, it is delightful to talk to you as always. Thank you for joining us on Skip the Queue and I am sure, I'm sure we'll make this into a full episode one day soon. I do say that to everybody. Rachel Kuhn: Thanks so much. Lovely to speak to you. Paul Marden: Andy. Andy Povey: Paul.Paul Marden: We've just walked out of the M and H show for another year. What are your thoughts? Andy Povey: First, I'm exhausted, absolutely exhausted. I'm not sure that I can talk anymore because I've spent 48 hours having some of the most interesting conversations I've had all year. Paul Marden: No offence, Tonkin. Andy Povey: You were part of some of those conversations, obviously, Paul. Paul Marden: I was bowled over again by just the sheer number of people that were there and all those lovely conversations and everybody was just buzzing for the whole two days. Andy Povey: The energy was phenomenal. I worked out that something like the 15th show, M & H show that I've been to, and I don't know whether it's just recency because it's sitting in the far front of my mind at the moment, but it seems like this was the busiest one there's ever been. Paul Marden: Yeah, I can believe it. The one thing that didn't change, they're still working on Olympia. Andy Povey: I think that just goes on forever. It's like the fourth Bridge. Paul Marden: Talks that stood out to you. Andy Povey: I really enjoyed interpretation One led by the guy from the sign language education company whose name I can't remember right now. Paul Marden: Yeah, Nate. That was an amazing talk, listeners. We will be getting him on for a full interview. I'm going to solve the problem of how do I make a inherently audio podcast into something that's accessible for deaf people? By translating the podcast medium into some sort of BSL approach. So that was the conversation that we had yesterday after the talk. Andy Povey: I know. I really look forward to that. Then, of course, there was the George and Elise from Complete Works. Paul Marden: I know. They were amazing, weren't they? You couldn't tell at all that they were actors. Do you know, it was really strange when George. So there was a point in that talk that George gave where we all had a collective breathing exercise and it was just. It was. It was so brilliantly done and were all just captivated. There must have been. I rechon there was 100 people at theatre at that point. Absolutely. Because it was standing room only at the back. And were all just captivated by George. Just doing his click. Very, very clever. Andy Povey: But massively useful. I've seen the same thing from George before and I still use it to this day before going on to make a presentation myself. Paul Marden: Yeah, yeah. Andy Povey: Just grounding yourself, centering yourself. Well, it's fantastic. Paul Marden: Yeah. But the whole thing that they were talking about of how do we create opportunities to have meaningful conversations with guests when they arrive or throughout their entire experience at an attraction so that we don't just talk about the weather like we're typical English people. Andy Povey: That's great, isn't it? Go and tell a Brit not to talk. Talk about the weather. Paul Marden: But training your staff makes absolute sense. Training your staff to have the skills and the confidence to not talk about the weather. I thought that was really interesting. Andy Povey: It's an eye opener, isn't it? Something really simple, but could be groundbreaking. Paul Marden: Yeah. Andy Povey: Then what was your view on all of the exhibitors? What did you take away from all the stands and everybody? Paul Marden: Well, I loved having my conversation yesterday with Alan Turing. There was an AI model of Alan Turing that you could interact with and ask questions. And it was really interesting. There was a slight latency, so it didn't feel quite yet like a natural conversation because I would say something. And then there was a pause as Alan was thinking about it. But the things that he answered were absolutely spot on, the questions that I asked. So I thought that was quite interesting. Other exhibitors. Oh, there was a lovely point yesterday where I was admiring, there was a stand doing custom designed socks and I was admiring a design of a Jane Austen sock and there was just somebody stood next to me and I just said, "Oh, Jane Austen socks." Paul Marden: Very on Trend for the 250th anniversary of Jane Austen, that all of the museums in Hampshire will be buying those up. And should funnily you should say that I'm the chief executive of Chawton Park House, which is one of the museums in the last place that Jane Austen lived. So very interesting, very small world moment at that point. Andy Povey: I do, it's almost an oxymoron to talk about Jane Austen socks. I don't imagine her having worn anything with nylon or Lycra in it. Paul Marden: Very true. I hadn't tweaked that. Andy Povey: There was a lot of AI there wasn't there AI this, AI that. Paul Marden: And there were some really good examples of where that is being used in real life. Yeah, yeah. So there were some examples where there's AI being used to help with visitor counts around your attraction, to help you to optimise where you need to put people. I thought that Neil at Symantec just talking about what he called answer engine optimisation. That was interesting. There were some brilliant questions. There was one question from an audience member asking, are there any tools available for you to figure out whether how well your organisation is doing at being the source of truth for AI tools? Andy Povey: Yeah, yeah. So almost like your Google search engine ranking. Paul Marden: But exactly for ChatGPT. Andy Povey: And have you found one yet? Paul Marden: No, not yet. There's also quite a lot of people talking about ideas that have yet to find a home. Andy Povey: Yes. What a very beautiful way of putting it. Paul Marden: The people that have. That are presenting a topic that has yet to get a real life case study associated with it. So the rubber hasn't yet hit the road. I don't think on that. Andy Povey: No. I think that's true for an awful lot of AI, isn't it? Not just in our sector. Paul Marden: No. Andy Povey: It's very interesting to see where that's all going to go. And what are we going to think when we look back on this in two or three years time? Was it just another chocolate teapot or a problem looking for a solution? Or was it the revolution that we all anticipate. Paul Marden: And I think it will make fundamentals change. I think it's changing rapidly. But we need more real case studies of how you can do something interesting that is beyond just using ChatGPT to write your marketing copy for you. Andy Povey: Yeah, I mean it's all about putting the guest at the front of it, isn't it? Let's not obsess about the technology, let's look at what the technology is going to enable us to do. And back to the first part of this conversation, looking at accessibility, then are there tools within AI that are going to help with that? Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. So there was definitely. There was an interesting talk by Vox. The people that provide, they provide all of the radio boxes for everybody to wear at M and H that provides you with the voiceover of all of the speakers. But they use this technology across all manner of different attractions and they were talking about using AI to do real time translation of tours. So you could. Andy Povey: Very interesting. Paul Marden: Yeah. So you could have an English speaker wandering around doing your tour and it could real time translate up to. I think it was up to four languages. Andy Povey: BSL not being one of those languages. Paul Marden: Well, no, they were talking about real time in app being able to see subtitles. Now, I don't know whether they went on to say you could do BSL. And we know from the other presentation that not everybody that is deaf is able to read subtitles as fast as they can consume sign language. So it's important to have BSL. But there were some parts of that Vox product that did it address deaf people. It wasn't just multilingual content. Andy Povey: So AI people, if you're listening, you can take the idea of translating into BSL in real time and call it your own. Paul Marden: Yeah, we very much enjoyed hosting our theatre, didn't we? That was a lot. And Anna, if you are listening, and I hope you are, because lots of people have said very nice things in this episode about M and H. Andy and I would love to come back next year. Andy Povey: Absolutely. Paul Marden: And host a theatre for you. Any other thoughts? Andy Povey: Just really looking forward to the rest of the week off. Yeah, it's a sign of a good show when you walk away with all that positive feeling and that positive exhaustion and you probably need a week to reflect on all of the conversations that we've had. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Next up we is AIM Conference at Mary Rose in June. I can't wait very much. Looking forward to that. Thank you ever so much for listening. We will join you again in a few weeks. See you soon. Bye Bye. Andy Povey: Draw.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm.  The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the 2024 Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

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Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter  or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 21st May 2025. The winner will be contacted via Bluesky. Show references: Museum Wales website: https://museum.wales/Big Pit National Coal Museum: https://museum.wales/bigpit/Catherine Pinkerton LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-pinkerton-b1905a110/Catherine Pinkerton is the Group Retail Manager at Amgueddfa Cymru - Museum Wales.Having worked in senior management positions for some of the high street's most recognisable brands such as Harrods, Selfridges, Dior and Guerlain to name but a few, Catherine spent 20+ years in London building her management career. Catherine is now the Group Retail Manager for Amgueddfa Cymru (Museum Wales). She is responsible for the management of all aspects of retail operations and development, across the national museums of Wales. Catherine is currently leading on a transformation project to create immersive retail experiences in each of the museum shops, reflecting the visitor experience and collections of each of the varied museums.Guests Also Featured in This Episode:Anya Kirkby, Freelancer - Anya Kirkby Ltd – Product Development and Graphic Design anyakirkby@gmail.comArantxa Garcia, Freelancer - Exibeo VM Creative Studio – Shop Design and Visual Merchandising Arantxa@exhibeovm.co.ukNia Elias, Director Relationships and Funding, Amgueddfa Cymru nia.elias@museumwales.ac.ukGuy Veale, Freelancer – Freelancer - Sound artist/designer - gbveale@gmail.comAmy Samways, Shop Supervisor, Amgueddfa Cymru - amy.samways@museumwales.ac.ukKate Eden, Chair, Amgueddfa Cymru - Members of Board | Museum Wales Transcriptions: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue. I'm your host, Paul Marden. So today you join me on the top of a mountain in Blaenavon in Wales at Big Pit, the National Mining Museum. I'm here today for a really special event. I've been invited to the opening of Big Pit's new Museum Retail experience, which is a programme of work that's being done by the Museums Wales Group to improve the sense of place and the sense of feeling for what could be a blueprint for the rest of the group. We're going to be joined by a number of different people that have taken part in the project and without further ado, let's get started on our tour of Big Pit. Catherine Pinkerton: Morning, everybody. Hello, welcome. It is my absolute pleasure to welcome you all today and I know there's been a lot of you'd have travelled far and wide, so thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate you coming to see the amazing store that we've created and I hope you love it. We're just going to cut the river now. Paul Marden: First up I've got Catherine Pinkerton, Group Head of Retail at Museum Wales. Catherine, welcome to Skip the Queue. Catherine Pinkerton: Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. Paul Marden: Absolute pleasure. And this is a corker of an episode. I think everybody is going to be really interested in finding out about the retail, the gift shop experience that you guys have introduced at Big Pit and then you're going to go wider into. Into Museums Wales. This is a really weird episode because you and I are recording the morning after the day before. So yesterday was the big launch event and I was with you at Big Pit and I've met lots and lots of people and we're going to cut to them throughout the episode and hear from those people that were taking part in the project. But you and I have got the benefit of having enjoyed yester today's event and we can look back on what that experience was like and talk a little bit about the project. Paul Marden: Before we do that, I think it would be really lovely for you to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about Museums Wales and Big Pit specifically. Catherine Pinkerton: Absolutely. Okay. So I'm Catherine Pinkerton. So I head up all of the retail stores within Amgueddfa Cymru, which is National Museums of Wales. I've been with the museum just under three years and I'm good that Cymru hosts seven sites. It's an incredible establishment to be part of and I think, you know, coming from a very commercial background, this is very different for me, but I think it's given me lots of insights into bringing kind of. Lots of. Kind of different skill sets, I guess, to this cultural sector. I think when I first initially joined Amgueddfa Cymru, there were lots of challenges. And that's not to say that we still have those challenges as they are in many of our museums. And I think coming from a retail background, it's. It's looking at something that's not. That's commercial, Paul.Catherine Pinkerton: That's key. But actually, how can we make it very collection and story based on our amazing assets that we hold within our museums? And I think that I felt was probably the biggest thing that was missing because I thought we've got these amazing exhibitions, these amazing collections, amazing, you know, opportunities, and how are we putting that into the retail structure and how do we offer that to us, you know, to our visitors? And I think. I think sometimes it may be. Have forgotten that you go around these amazing spaces and it's very based on that visitor focus and how can we make that visitor feel very happy and engaged. But actually the end part of that process is nearly always coming through, exiting through the retail space. Right. Catherine Pinkerton: And if they've had this amazing opportunity to go and, you know, a lot of investment in these amazing spaces, and then they come through that retail space which has some elements, but not all of what our collections hold, there's a confusion there. You know, that end piece. And for me, customer service and visitor experience is absolutely key to how they. How they finish and how they end their day. And if they're ending their day with something, oh, okay, I'll just have a magnet then. Because there's nothing really else here. Yeah, that pains me. That really hurts me. I think, come on, guys, we can do better than this. We are in an element of. We have our own assets, our own elements to be able to kind of display that. Catherine Pinkerton:  And I think very much it would be very easy and to take the kind of easy road of having, you know, let's. Let's pop a dragon on a mug and yeah, we're a Welsh museum. No, we're not. We have assets here. We have beautiful exhibitions, we have beautiful spaces. And actually looking from further afield into. In terms of an emotional connection. And I think, you know, for me, from all of my past kind of previous work, I'm working with Amgueddfa Cymru. It's probably been the most challenging to get perhaps senior management to understand a crazy way of Catherine Pinkerton working into a. What's emotional retail? What does emotive selling mean? This lady is crazy. What's she talking about? But actually, it's really basic, isn't it? Catherine Pinkerton: Because for me, if I take my daughter or my husband to any kind of day trip, I want to take something emotional that I've connected with home with me, and that's so simple. But actually, sometimes it's not thought about in that way. And, you know, for me, I'm all about the emotional connection. And I think we put so much investment in curatorial teams to kind of give that to our visitors. We need to end that. That end part is so important for them to finish, you know, that journey with that emotional connection that they can take home as a souvenir. So, yeah, I've probably said more than I needed to there, Paul, but.Paul Marden: Absolutely. So I think you're capturing the need to curate the. The ending experience because, you know, the nature of. The nature of people's memory is they remember the beginning and they remember the end and the bit that is in the middle is hugely important to the storytelling experience they have whilst they're at the attraction. But if you don't end on a high, then their emotional connection to you and the space and the stories they've heard is not going to be as impactful for them. Catherine Pinkerton:  Absolutely, totally agree. I think it's really key, and not just in the kind of, you know, the cultural sector, but in any sector, really. I think it's really important that connection is instant, really, because that is what you need to. That's the hook, isn't it, of getting that person, you know, and. And actually understanding what the visitor needs. I mean, it's very easy for me to say on a personal level, I'd love to have this collection of products within the shop, but actually, that's not what data tells us. That's not what our demographic tells know, you know. And they are the ones that are important. Our local communities, our demographic is key for us to be successful. Paul Marden: You know, so one of the things that I took from yesterday was the importance that you were moving away from being just any other generic Welsh gift shop to being a gift shop associated with the place. Yeah, that. That's the. That was the nub of I think, what you were trying to get to how do you go about doing that? How did you make it feel so much like a gift shop? About Big Pit? Catherine Pinkerton: It's taken a process of really pulling everything back and getting under the skin, what is the detail and the personality of the site. But actually it's talking to people and being humour. And Paul, you know, I think, very much, as I say, it'd be very ignorant for me to say this is what I think will work. And that's absolutely not what we want. What we want is for the visitors to say, I really. I mean, what was really interesting, actually, is that we did quite a lot of data analysis in terms of the demographics of customers that come through our sites. But also what was really key is areas of the sites that were really kind of, you know, three key areas that they really enjoyed or they really loved. Catherine Pinkerton:  And actually, one of the top ones was the pit ponies that they all love the pit ponies, they love talking about it, they love the stories that the mining team would talk about. It was a really inspiring, you know, inspirational moment for them to think, oh, my gosh, the pit ponies lived underground. This is really so, you know, I think in some respects that was probably missed in terms of our retail offer, because what we did after that is that we had a workshop with all our retail team and we almost did a little bit like a Dragon's Den effect. We said, right, these are the products that we have, right? Can you pick up out of these products, which products represent the pit ponies? Which products represent the shower rooms? Catherine Pinkerton: And actually, when you're talking to the teams in kind of a literal sense, there wasn't a lot within our retail offer that we already had. And I think it was a bit of a light bulb moment, really, for the retail team and said, “Oh, Kath. Right, I see, Yeah, I understand what you mean.” That's not represented in our retail offer. So what's represented currently was wonderful things and lots of Welsh kind of products. But actually, what. What makes that relatable to our site? And so I think what I wanted to do originally is just go on a journey and to kind of really, from a very basic stage, is understand what the site's POS was and actually understand what their personality was and what the curatorial team were trying to push forward as being their identity. Catherine Pinkerton:  And I think once we got the identity, we then broke that down into themes in terms of there's pit ponies. That's a huge part of the, you know, the exhibition. The other huge part of the exhibition were the canaries. So, you know, that was something that was talked about. There's a huge story around that. And then, you know, the kind of mining history and the community was massive. And actually that element was so important to me and the retail team to make sure that we got right. Because this is history, right? And this is. I come from both my grandparents were miners. So for me it was very much a, you know, a very emotional time for me to make sure that we got it right and that it was respectfully done. Catherine Pinkerton:  So that was really key in terms of how do we deliver this. That's really. That we are not stepping on people's toes. We're not profiting from something that was, you know, the strike range is very significant within what we've offered, but we really wanted to make sure that was respectful and that it was done in a tasteful way that people felt they could take a souvenir away, but know that was actually part of the exhibition. So it was those kind of areas that we really wanted to work. So once we have those themes in place in terms of what those looked like, it was then developing that and how do we develop that into an actual concept? Paul Marden: Yeah, and you've drawn in lots of people. You've already mentioned the kind of wide team that you brought in from Big Pit itself, but from the wider team in the group. Talk a little bit about what that experience has been like as a team. Who have you brought into this? Catherine Pinkerton:  So originally, when we wrote the retail concept and the retail strategy, you obviously have to kind of involve quite a lot of internal candidates to be able to allow them to believe that this journey and vision is a good one. And I'm super thankful. I've got the most amazing manager, Marc Simcox. He's the head of enterprises and he is incredible. He's very commercial, but very trusting in terms of understanding what the business should look like and actually giving that freedom to say, yeah, I think this can work. Kath. So you, you go ahead and that. That's huge. Right. We're not talking about a small project here. So that firstly was great for me. And then I think having the, you know, the opportunity to be able to get some key people. Catherine Pinkerton: And Matthew Henderson we've worked with previously and we've, you know, I knew straight away, for me, Matthew Henderson has gotten. Got a very unique way of working and we work very well together. We've got quite similar kind of ways of working, but I think that development and concept phase is really key and I think it really got to the point where we just sat in a room and kind of really understood what are we trying to achieve here, how can we achieve that? And really just making it very basic in terms of the key themes. And then in terms of product development, we brought on Anya Kirkby. So she is an illustrator and a very clever lady indeed. And we have worked with lots of illustrators and lots of suppliers over the years. Catherine Pinkerton: But what we wanted something for Big Pit was to be quite different in terms of the illustration and the product development. Because what we wanted to deliver with Big Pit was something that had been my vision since the very beginning when I started with Amgueddfa Cymru. And that is, you know, going into the shop and having those guidelines, you know, pricing guidelines, information guidelines, those small details which would probably mean nothing to the average person walking through, but actually a price ticket on something that's been illustrated pains me to see, because the work that's gone on behind that is so key. Catherine Pinkerton: And, you know, for most people not understanding that a price ticket on that is so I think those details are really key, Paul, and I think she really worked stringently with me to make sure that was, was, that was kind of a massive aspect of that role. And then Arantxa Garcia, who is just the most incredible designer. She's, she's a genius in what she does. She's incredibly creative and sometimes you have to kind of pull her back and say, okay, you want this? Okay, can you deliver this rancher? Paul Marden: Yeah. Catherine Pinkerton: And what was really interesting with a rancher is that, you know, she's got a huge, amazing CV of working with lots of people within the cultural sector and designing amazing, incredible pieces. But I think were very nervous because the, the original kind of renders that she sent through to us were quite amazing and impressive. And I said, arantha, are you able to deliver this under the kind of, you know, the budget? We've got a tight budget here. Paul Marden: That's the challenge, isn't it? Catherine Pinkerton: I mean, isn't it? Paul Marden: You do not want to be paying, you don't want to be offered the picture of a Maserati when you have got a Ford Fiesta budget, do you need to know that you can afford it. Catherine Pinkerton: Absolutely. And I think with Aranta, she was very, again, super creative lady. And I think I, as soon as I saw that image, I did say to her, right, you need to deliver this now. You've, you've committed to it, Arantia, so this needs to happen. And then finally, Richard Evans, who has, is hugely respected in the cultural sector and he really supported in terms of project management and the, you know, I hate to say this, and you won't mind me saying this, but the kind of boring kind of financial Gantt charts and keeping me in line actually. Right, Cath, we haven't got a budget for that. You can't spend that. Come on, Richard, make it work. Move some things around, you know. Catherine Pinkerton: So I think that was kind of the main area and then internally, Tracy Lucas, who was kind of my right hand woman, is our operations manager within Amgueddfa Cymru and she really supported me along with Amy, the shop manager, shop supervisor to really look at the product development. So I think, you know, and I think it was really nice actually to have them on board because I think it gave an opportunity for them to see what could be. And I think, you know, definitely in terms of retail, it's been an opportunity for us to be able to say, look, this, the impossible can be possible. Catherine Pinkerton: Actually this is an amazing project and I think what was really incredible is that when we decided to work on Big Pit, the Big Pit team and all of the mining team actually just came on board, Paul, they took it on board and I think the reason why they did that is that one of the mining teams said to me, he said, kath, you know, we never get any funding here. It's always in this big cities, you know, we, the Cardiff and it's never here, you know, we're just in the middle of nowhere. And I was like, absolutely not. That is not what this is about. It's about, you know, making sure that the community in that area is solid. Catherine Pinkerton: And I think the mining industry and they're very proud of that in terms of who works there, they're incredibly proud of what they do. And so because we chose that as our first project, they were so helpful in terms of, yeah, we're going to make this work, let's make it a success. Cath, how can we do that? What do you need from me? I mean at one point we had two of the mining staff pulling one of the drums which we upcycled out of it was like a lake or, yeah, I suppose a lake with a tractor. And I was like, this is crazy. This is crazy but just amazing that these team members are willing to do above and beyond to kind of go and help and support.Catherine Pinkerton: Dwayne Smith, finally I have to mention him because he went above and beyond. He, he's an electrical engineer for Amgueddfa Cymru and no feat was kind of Too hard for him. He helped us massively. He's got a huge team of people and anything that we needed done, I'm not, you know, I'm not a trades person, so anything Trady. I was like, Dwayne, yeah, I'm on it, Kath, I'll do it. Which is great because I was like, okay, yes, that was massively helpful, but huge learning curve, Paul. I feel I've never been so excited about drums in my entire working career as I am now. Paul Marden: And I never heard of one until yesterday. But what I found interesting was you see them all the way through the underground experience. I went down in the. The cage to the bottom of the pit head, did the whole tour. You talk about these drams and the importance of them and the transportation of the coal from throughout the mine back up to the top. And then you walk into the shop and it's subtle. The way that you've blended the museum into the shop is a subtle experience. It doesn't feel, it doesn't feel crude. But you've got a dram in the middle of the workshop. Now, I know it's a real one because we talked about it yesterday and I know the pains that you went through, but it's very subtle placed in there so that it doesn't feel crude. Paul Marden: It doesn't feel like you're trying to overwork the metaphor of the mine in the shop. It's very cleverly done. Catherine Pinkerton:  Oh, that's great, great, great to hear. Because that's absolutely what we did not want. And I think in terms of visual merchandising, actually, and picking up on your point there, is that it's very easy for us and this is something that we're doing in a different shop. It's very easy for us to look at some of our assets and pop them on a tote bag and say, there you go, that's done, we'll sell that. But actually, no, what can we do that's different? That's more kind of innovative? That's more creative. That is a hint or perhaps an opportunity for us to show and display something that is. Is then part of the visitors question. So when they're coming into store and they're speaking to our retail teams, they're questioning, is this a real drum? Catherine Pinkerton:  You know, and that is a conversation opener, isn't it? You know, and I think Kerry Thompson, who is the curator for Big Pit, he's a really inspiring man. I could listen to him all day. And he told me lots about kind of the drums and the history of Big Pit and the strikes. He's such an interesting man, but I think having the inspiration from him allowed us to make sure that we did it not in a crude way, actually, Paul, but that it was representative of the site, but not in a way that's, I guess, too obvious, you know. Paul Marden: Look, Kath, we could carry on talking for ages, but let's cut at this point to hear about some of the voices from the team that you worked with, your internal team, some of the partners that you worked with, about the experiences that they've had on the project. Paul Marden: So let's hear from some of the internal team members involved in the project. Firstly, we have Amy Samways, the retail supervisor at Big Pit, followed by Kate Eden, the chair of Museum Wales. And lastly, Nia Elias, the Director of Relationships and Funding at the Museum of Wales. Hey, Amy, how you doing? Lovely to meet you. What's your role at the museum, Amy? Amy Samways: I'm the shop supervisor for Big Pit. Paul Marden: What have you been doing in this whole project? I guess you've been integral to the whole kind of making it all about the place. Amy Samways: Yeah, so I've worked with Anya, who did all the products for the new shop. So we walked around all the exhibitions. We did a lot of underground visits and a lot of museum visits and just put things together. I've done a lot of work before this project for the last two years to try and get things more relevant to us and not just a Welsh souvenir shop. So a lot of those products stayed and then we just expanded them then. Paul Marden: So how do you go about looking for those products that make it local to here? Amy Samways: Well, we've got a fantastic exhibition at the top of the hill. We've got obviously our ex miners and we also have a lot of events through the times as well. So this year was a lot about the strike because obviously it's the 40th anniversary and we've got a massive exhibition down in Cardiff and also there's a smaller one up year as well. So we just walked through the museum and obviously, you know that disasters are obviously a big issue. We didn't want to make a big issue about those, but obviously they need. They're part of history, aren't they? So more books. We made sure we had books around that. And as you walk through, there's a lot of signs that the staff liked as well, because a lot of our guys have been done about the new projects with those as well on. Paul Marden: So do you then go looking for local suppliers to help you with that? And where do you find those? Amy Samways: Etsy, Facebook. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Amy Samways: Yeah, a lot of them. And also online. And then we've also. Because we work with a lot of suppliers as well, I'll say we need this and then they'll say, oh, you should ask so and so, and then we'll go and ask both. Paul Marden: Brilliant. So one of the things that's really interested me this year is talking to people that are running museum retail and that kind of process that goes from you as a buyer, having an idea, what do you want? How do you stock the shop? I think is really interesting process to go through, but flip it on the other side, as a local creator, you've got your thing and you want it in the shop. How do you get it found? Well, yeah, sticking it on Etsy is something that they're going to do, but then that might help them get into the museum. Amy Samways: Even if there is something that we want. Like at the minute, we're looking for NCB soap. Paul Marden: For what? Amy Samways: NCB soap. Paul Marden: What's that? Amy Samways: It's either bright green or bright pink and they used to buy it in the canteen shop and it's just imprinted with NCB. The guides have been asking and asking for it, but we have actually found a supplier now who's going to be working on it. So that should be coming this summer. Paul Marden: Wowzers. Amy Samways: Yeah. That's really exciting for you. Paul Marden:  What was the highlight? What's the one thing about this space, about the whole experience of the project. Amy Samways: That jumps out for me is seeing all the stock we've worked on and somebody actually buying it. Paul Marden:  And what is it that people are picking up? What are they walking in and gravitating to? Amy Samways: Anything Big pet, really. The little enamel little mugs have gone really well. I think the wording on those are great because it says they must not be removed from the premises. So our guides are loving those. And also our retro sign, which we had for our 40th anniversary and three years ago, but we kept it because it's such a brilliant design. It was the original from 1983 and it was on the original road sign as you drove in. So we've had that recreated and that sells really well. Paul Marden:  That's really interesting. So my wife with the family about 25, 30 years ago, came on a family holiday and they had the original guidebook that they picked up when they were here with the kind of the retro. Retro signage on there. Amy Samways: Yeah, we're back selling it again. Kate Eden: Yes, So my name's Kate Eden. I'm chair of the board of Amgueddfa Cymru. Paul Marden:  Tell me a little bit about your involvement in this project. Kate Eden:  As the board, we've been tracking the development of commercial and enterprises over the past year. Really. And really thrown our way, weight and support behind what the team has been trying to do here as a kind of flagship, really, for what we would all like the new benchmark to be across all of the seven sites of anger for Cymru. So seeing it all come together this morning has just been such a special experience. It's absolutely fantastic. I'm going to bring the rest of the board here as soon as I can so the trustees can see this and see the reaction of staff and of visitors as well, because it's a fabulous achievement and it shows us what we can do now as a national museum. Paul Marden: How well does it tie back into the original pitch at trustees? So I'm a trustee of a charity as well. The pressures that we're all under in terms of reducing funding and having to generate our own funding is so hugely important. This must be integral to the conversations that you were having as trustees. Did you have this in mind when you were signing off the agreement to spend the money? Kate Eden: Yeah. So I don't think anybody realised just how successful this could be. We'd had some mock ups and we'd had a presentation, so there was a lot of excitement and there was sort of the fledgling idea years. So we've got a sense of what it could be. But I think importantly for us, it's about that marriage of financial sustainability because it's got to wash its face, it's got to provide a working profit that can go back into the running of Big Pit here.Kate Eden: But it's got to be authentic to this place. It can't be the add on the visitor should shop that you walk through at the end. And it's a bit of a tedious thing to get back to the car park. It's got to be an integral part of the whole visitor experience in this place. And I think that's what they've achieved. Paul Marden: It's so impressive. So impressive. You know, just the structure that they've built to give you the impression of the mine in a really subtle way. The product that they've chosen, the way that they've laid out that, the shop is amazing. I think they've done an amazing job. Kate Eden: That's it. I mean, this is my local site. Paul Marden: Okay. Kate Eden: I live about three miles over the mountain there. So I bring my friends and family here. This is our go to place when I've got visitors. And I think just the way they've opened up the room, they've removed the barriers, which is really important. It's a small thing, but really important so that people feel welcome. They can walk in or they can walk ground. Paul Marden: Yep. Kate Eden: And it's. And it just feels a little bit more inclusive. It feels a bit more kind of, you know, we're here, it's easy to come and see us, you know, and spend time and then spend a little. Paul Marden: A little bit of money. Yeah. So where do we go from here as trustees? Are you fully behind rolling this out now? Kate Eden: Yeah, I mean, I think now that we've seen what we can do and the type of data that's coming through from sales, this is now the new. This is the bar. Paul Marden: Oh. So it has made a discernible difference to say. Kate Eden: So early data from Easter is really promising. Yeah. So this is the benchmark now from all of the other sites. Nia Elias: Hi, Paul. Hi, I'm Nia. Paul Marden: Lovely to meet you. Tell me about your role at the museum. Nia Elias: I am Director of Relationships and Funding. It basically means I get to work with all of the teams across the museum that work on the reputation, the reach, but also the revenue of this wonderful charity and national museum that we are. Because as well as getting funding from Welsh government, we raise our own income so it can be invested.Paul Marden: What sort of split? Nia Elias: What sort of split? So the majority of the money that comes to us does come from Welsh government because we're a public service, we're here free of charge for the people of Wales and we look after the national collection, which is over 5 million items across seven museums and a collection centre. Nia Elias: But there's a proportion then of money that we raise ourselves about sort of 30%, which is from our cafes and our car parks and the experiences that people have, and most importantly, our shops. Paul Marden:  So what was the inspiration for this project? Why kick off a strategy project around the whole retail experience? Nia Elias:  Well, this whole project, in essence started three and a half years ago when the museum decided that it would bring a strategy together for all of its self generated income. So that means our philanthropic income generation and through our enterprise, including our retail. And from a retail perspective, we knew that what we wanted to achieve with all of the money that we raise ourselves is that it's really rooted in the collection, because we have an amazing collection. It tells the story of Wales and it's owned by the people of Wales. Paul Marden: Right. Nia Elias: And from a retail perspective, we knew if people could engage with that and could take away something from the wonderful experience that they've had on site, that it would be something that they would want and it would make it unique that it's only possible to have here. Developing a project like this is quite challenging. You need the time, you need the teams and expertise, some of which are on your permanent team, some of which are naturally not. And also you need investment. And so by starting the thinking and the route of where we wanted to get to three and a half years ago, it meant when we had the funding and the opportunity to do so here at Big Pit, we knew exactly what to do. Paul Marden: Okay, so you. You put all of those pieces together and then came here and did the first cookie cutter stamp. But what's interesting is it's not a cookie cutter stamp, is it? This totally feels like the gift shop for this museum, doesn't it?. Nia Elias:  Yeah. So we feel really strongly that we wanted the balance of knowing that you're at a National Museum Wales site, knowing that you're somewhere unique, but equally that it has a sense of a place. Because all of our seven museums together tell the holistic story of Wales, but you really get a sense of personality on all of those sites, not just from the collection and the buildings and the items, but also from the colleagues that work here as well. Paul Marden: Right. Nia Elias: They're very much a part of that in terms of the stories that they tell, their lived experiences, and we had a sense of responsibility and fun to bring that through in the shop. Not just the ambiance, but also the products themselves, so much of them, the majority of them actually, are grounded in being inspired by the collection in some way, and also has a really strong Welsh and local profit as well. What we think that will come through to our customers and visitors and guests is that because we've worked across all of the teams in the museum, so curators and people who care for the collection, our colleagues here at Big Pit, many of whom are former miners, and our colleagues front of house, it means that everybody will be able to speak about the product. Nia Elias: So as you're walking around picking things up, imagining them in your home or as gifts, our colleagues can talk about what they mean to the place. And that brings something additional that you can't really buy. Paul Marden: Yeah. There's a story to it. There's a background to it that roots it. Yeah. Lovely. For you, what's the standout experience from the whole project? What have you enjoyed the most? Nia Elias: Two things I think in terms of the way that it's been done, the fact that so many teams have worked together behind the scenes to make it happen. That means that as we want to change things or tweak things or improve things, we'll have all of the knowledge and expertise already baked in, especially learning from other suppliers who've come along and helped us. So we've got that baked in now, which is really exciting. And the second thing is that I can stand here knowing that this is the standard of a national museum that our guests and visitors expect and want to see. Paul Marden: And now let's hear from a few of the external partners that Kath brought into the project. Arantxa Garcia was the shop designer and visual merchandiser. Anya Kirkby was responsible for product development. And Guy Veal was responsible for sound design. Tell me about your involvement in the project. Arantxa Garcia: Sure. So I'm the shop designer and visual merchandiser. It's a freelance role, so. So I worked with the team, Matthew, Richard, Anne and Guy. Paul Marden: Excellent. Arantxa Garcia: So we kind of all came as part of a team and each one of us looked after different areas of the project. And my involvement was to kind of reinvent and reimagine what was already here. And the idea was to create a space that was connected to the experience and to the site itself. So we've basically ripped the space apart. We've kind of kept the structure, obviously, but we've opened up the space as well. Before the shop, it would be very separate. You'd have admissions and then you have the shop area, which meant that you were only really accessing the shop if you came to visit the site. But as a local, you wouldn't be able to come, for example. Or you could, but maybe not in such an open way. Paul Marden: Yeah, you wouldn't feel welcome. Arantxa Garcia: Exactly, exactly. You may not want to just because you didn't know, whereas now you can just come in and basically hang around and also browse the shop. Exactly. We took inspiration from life underground, from the mine itself. So before the building was white, the units were white, so it could be a shop anywhere. You know, it didn't really have a DNA, so to speak, or an identity that related it directly to the site. So when visiting down to the underground and King Call as well, the exhibition that we've got just up the hill, we took inspiration from basically sort of like the. The cladding that you've got on the walls. Cladding is not the right word. So if one of the miners hears me saying that, they'll be. Arantxa Garcia: That's not the word that we told you, but the idea is that all the materiality that we're using, it's really evocative of. Of the site and it's the materials that have been used underground. So even, like the safety lamps, they'll set authentic safety lamps. And the team on site, Dwayne Smith, has electrified them. So it means that now they work, obviously, as a normal light, but it's a safety. Paul Marden: But they are the original safety. Arantxa Garcia: They are the original safety. Paul Marden: Wowsers. And what about these styles? Arantxa Garcia: So, yes, I always like going for a hunt on the side. So basically the team took me to different rooms and we just found stuff, if you like. So they're like the pressure gauges, you know, we're gonna use them just to add, again, like, references to the site and the authenticity, of course. So you also find loads of tools that would have been used underground as well. Paul Marden: I would imagine that this has been a really enjoyable project for you. I can see it on your face, how much you've enjoyed it. Arantxa Garcia: It has. And I think for designers, sometimes there's projects that take a bit longer to emerge and you keep changing things because you just don't feel probably quite right. There's something. But with this one, it kind of. After the site visit, it was just. Paul Marden: I clicked immediately.Arantxa Garcia: It just clicked immediately. So we darkened the wall. So we've kind of given that sort of grey background just to kind of creating more of like a cosy and shrinking the space. Paul Marden: But you. It pops the orange. Arantxa Garcia: Exactly. And the orange is everywhere. So, like, we've also changed the lighting, so it's a lot warmer. So again, that hint of orange. Yeah, orange on the back, orange on the miners on here. And then it comes also from the products. So the identity is there, but without going fully corporate, if that makes sense. That's the colour that you remember, isn't it? You've just been on the ground. All our guides and miners wear the orange overalls and the sort of, like the blue jackets over it, whether it's a donkey jacket in the winter or then they wear the soft shells as well. So, yeah, it's all those details, like those hints to the experience that kind of are embedded in the design. And these are regional as well. The drums are regional, all the flatbeds. Arantxa Garcia:  So the team here took the metal sides off and then sort of like left the skeleton of the drum, varnished it. And then our shop fitters aren't here. They did all the sort of the cladding using reclaimed scaffolding boards. But the original Drums would have been made out of wood. Paul Marden: Beautiful. It's so tactile, isn't it? Arantxa Garcia:  It's tactile. Again, we're looking at the DNA all the time. And shops can be more than just shops. Shops can tell stories. You just connect with it in a very different way. And just having the time the team on site involved has been absolutely incredible. Like the sense of pride and belonging and provenance that this kind of has awakened, it's been great. It's your job done really as a designer. When you just feel like everyone owns it, that's your job, that's when you can walk away. Paul Marden: What an amazing testimonial for you and the work that everyone feels like that. Anya, lovely to meet you. Tell me, what was your involvement in the project? Anya Kirkby: So I mainly focused on product development. So we looked at where we could get inspiration from the site and how we could translate that really from the site experience into the shop experience as well. Paul Marden: Okay, so you're coming, you're experiencing what's going on and then looking to the outside world as to how you can source your products. Where do you go for the inspiration for the products? Anya Kirkby: Working with the team a lot. So Amy was a huge help on guiding us on what things would be very useful for visitors, what they really enjoyed when they were on site, what were their key take home messages that they experienced. And then working with Amy and Tracey as well to look at what products people like when they're in the shop anyway and how we can kind of marry those two up. Paul Marden: So what is it that people like when they come to Big Pit? Anya Kirkby: Well, unsurprisingly, the mine, they enjoy the mines, the mining experience. So that was just something that we already had in the shop. So we just expanded on that more if possible. But then we've also taken inspiration from signage. So they already had the original Big Pit signage and we looked at that and kind of again expanded on it. So then we've kind of expanded that to signage that you find in some of the other exhibits. So up in the showers, for example, in the canteen, signage, some of the original pieces from collections. We then translated that into products. So you'll see we've got the designs across mugs, original little metal signs, moved that across to prints, notebooks, postcards. Paul Marden: You've been developing a lot of the products yourself, so bringing that kind of the unifying feel to everything. Anya Kirkby: Yeah. So along with product development and making all the kind of the new things that we can have it's just bringing across the branding through the AC brand really strongly across everything. It's got such a strong message that we may as well have that on as many products as we possibly can do. Paul Marden: And how much of the stuff is actually locally sourced? Anya Kirkby: Oh, it's huge amounts. And the exciting thing is after speaking to Amy, the things that she needs to reorder are the local suppliers, which is so nice. So a lot of the confectionery that's locally sourced candles, soap, the coal figures, the wooden spoons, chocolate boxes, the biscuit boxes. So as much as possible. And then we've worked with local suppliers as well to do photography, to do some of the signage, to do the original signwriting in the shop as well. So beyond products, we've looked at the POS points like elements of the shop as well. So thankfully we've used as many local spires as we possibly can. Paul Marden: You've enjoyed this project, haven't you? Anya Kirkby: I absolutely loved it, yeah. It's fantastic to see it's absolutely amazing. Paul Marden: Yeah. Anya Kirkby: So yeah, it's really special. Paul Marden: And then from here you springboard on to the other seven sites. How do you, how do you come up with the ideas then? Anya Kirkby: Exactly the same process. So working with the teams to find out what it is that visitors absolutely love about their sites and bringing that into the shop experience. So again I get very lucky. I get to go around a lot museums and experience it. Paul Marden: It's a tough job, isn't it?Anya Kirkby: It's tricky. But basically finding out what they love and bringing that through the really things that visitors take home with them anyway and just making it into a product that they can actually physically take a piece of the museum home with them as well. Paul Marden: It's great because there are some pocket money items here because I take kids on school visits and it's a very expensive experience. You know, if they catch take a fiver with them, often they can't get anything with a fiver but they can walk in and they've got pencils, they've got rubbers and they'll walk out happy with those little bits. But at the same time you've got some beautiful stuff that the grown ups can come and pick up and really enjoy. Anya Kirkby: It's the same as any museum visitor. You kind of have to look at who's going to be visiting. It's all types of people that come and just gauging it from that as well. So having an offer for everyone that they can enjoy. Someone said to me once that children for the first time. It's often their first time having a transaction monetary wise. Is that a museum on a school trip? So it's just lovely to kind of have something for them to experience that as well. Paul Marden: Never thought of it like that. They're out on their own. They're not with mum and dad. So they've got the money themselves and they've got to make the decision. So we are at. I took some kids to the science museum last year. Anya Kirkby: Oh. Paul Marden: And the amount of time we took in the shop because of the indecision that they had. Anya Kirkby: It's the indecision decision and then the queue of all them having a five pound note and having all the change come back or not having quite enough. But I think it's such an important. If you can't do that in a museum, where can you do it? Paul Marden: Guy. Hi. Guy Veale: Hi. Paul Marden: I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about what was your part of the project? Guy Veale: I was sound designer for the soundscape which we can't hear when everyone's chatting. Paul Marden: I can hear some birds in the background. Is that. Guy Veale: Is that canaries? Living canaries. Not dead gas. Paul Marden:  Coal mine canary. Guy Veale: So I did a little bit of research sort of towards the end of the project after lots of stuff had been built in, when they decided that some low level sound would be a good part of the experience. And looking at the brief and the shape of the room, the acoustics, a lot of this new ducting that's gone in that was not then easy to put cables into. We had to go for a wireless solution. Paul Marden:  Okay. Guy Veale: As part of that I found a Swedish company that had a system that creates its own network which is like a weird dream because normally you've got to go the IT guys and then something goes wrong and there's some sort of address problems or. Bluetooth is not always reliable. This has been a revolution just in terms of. Guy Veale: Don't if you can see them. There's little. They look like light fixtures that are centrally over these panels. Paul Marden: Oh right. Guy Veale: And they're quite. Paul Marden: Oh. And so they're speaking speakers pointing down onto the panel to separate it. So what. What. The other kind of sound pictures that you're painting. We've got the canary. What else have you got? Guy Veale: So the whole idea is that you're trying to represent the industrial heritage of the site and have as many authentic sounds from the site as possible. Paul Marden: Right. Guy Veale: So we've reused some of the really high quality recordings that also feature at different parts of the site already. Paul Marden: Yep. Guy Veale: But then, also sourced about another 70 or 80 sound from the BBC archive. Paul Marden: Oh, wow. Guy Veale: Paid for. And so. But if you think about those sounds, they're quite punctuated and aggressive. You think of any industrial sound and like chipping away or different tipples working. You know, the idea is that you don't want to surprise someone that while they're shopping and leaning over next to a speaker and hearing. So it needed to be softened in some way. And you know, traditionally the way I've done work is music and sound design is using different textures and tonal design and like a drone, I suppose, is this as a sort of basis that can be moving and organic, not totally static? Paul Marden: Yeah. Guy Veale:  And the idea was to sort of try and include fragments of relevant songs using the male voice choir.Paul Marden:  Really.Guy Veale: And we tried several things and I looked at it and I realised that you might catch someone coming in for five minutes here and they catch a snippet and it's all well and good for them, but the staff and you've got to hear this eight hours a day, every day, you know, four weeks, a month, so forth. So even just one little identifiable recurring melody starts to get too much, even on quite a long five. Paul Marden: Oh, really? Guy Veale: And I found that it wasn't sustainable. So I, in the end, I ended up using the. Almost like the vocal warm ups and breaths of the choir artificially extended out so they're not breathing, just this constant low level, breathy sort of expulsion. I mean, if went quiet now, we'd hear it as the. As a backdrop and it's embedded with a few other little musical elements that just sort of try and soften and support. I think of it like the vowels of the track and then the consonants. Paul Marden: Or the industrial chipping noises and the harsher noises. Guy Veale: So they're harsher but they're there and they're a bit removed and reverberate and in the background. Paul Marden: But it's really interesting how you describe it in that kind of. Using the metaphor of the letters. Guy Veale: Yeah, that's what it felt like. Just trying to find something that was like a vocabulary of work that has to tick so many different boxes, including like a therapeutic retail experience. People leaving the site with a sense of well being. Also like summarising what they've been through, not sort of projecting them out the door with, you know, a completely new thing or somewhere that they haven't been through yet. So, you know, fair few things to try and fit in there and, you know, hopefully it works and we'll see how things are in a year's time. Paul Marden: Yeah. Cath, the last point I wanted touch on before we finish today is oh my God, how happy everybody was at that event yesterday. How positive the experience was for all of the team members. What was for you the big standout moment for the entire project? Catherine Pinkerton: I mean, there's so many, Paul. But I think for me it's an opportunity to see what can be achieved when people collaborate. And I think, you know, joining the museum three years ago is really collaborating with lots of different departments to achieve something as a team.Catherine Pinkerton: Teamwork is absolutely the key to kind of success and I think you can only achieve that by having that really product professional kind of embodiment with all of the collaborative teams to work together for the same goal. And I, I was really proud yesterday that it took a lot of work, but actually without a team of 40 people as well as the wider organisation, it would not have been, it was no mean feat, but it was certainly wasn't just down to one person saying this is my project because it was a team effort. Catherine Pinkerton: And I was so proud of everybody that was there to kind of thank them along the way to say, this is, we've done this and now onwards and upwards. Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. You should be so proud. It really was. Catherine Pinkerton: Thank you. Paul Marden:  It's a demonstration of what a museum gift shop experience can really be like when you work together like that, when you collaborate. So well done to all of you. It was such a lovely experience yesterday. Thank you for inviting me. Catherine Pinkerton: Thank you so much for coming, Paul. I appreciate it. Paul Marden: Before we go though, I always ask for a book recommendation from our guests. Now it would have bankrupted me to have asked everybody yesterday for book recommendations. So you have to take the responsibility of a recommendation on behalf of everybody. What have you got for me? Catherine Pinkerton: The secret for me is, you know, that that book seems to be. I always go back to that book very often and I think it's a key one for lots of areas. So that's definitely a takeaway for me. But the other one I'm reading at the moment called A Monk's Guide to Happiness. I'm not sure if you've had enough to read it. Yeah, it's a 21st century take on A Monk's Guide. It's written by Gelong Thubten and he had a very high powered job and he had a burnout and interestingly he changed his whole mindset in terms of what makes him happy and really making it quite basic. Right. Catherine Pinkerton: So it's a, it's a real eye opener in terms of just pulling things back sometimes, you know, at the end of the day, come on, let's just live life and be happy but, you know, not stress out about things. I'm quite easy to do that. So this is very much a. Just breathe, Kath, get through it. But it's a good one. If you want to just strip it back and just kind of understanding the basics of being happy, then, yeah, he's great. Paul Marden: Oh, Cath, that's a great recommendation. If you go over to Bluesky and repost the show message that Wenalyn put out and say, I want Kath's book, then the first person that does that will get a copy of the book sent to them. Kath, it was absolutely delightful. I enjoyed my day wandering around Big Pit yesterday no end. Given that half my family is from the valleys and most of them were miners, I feel like I should have done this a very long time ago. But it was lovely. And to enjoy the experience of the celebration that you had yesterday, it was a real privilege. So thank you. Catherine Pinkerton: Oh, huge privilege to have you there. Paul. Thank you so much. I'm really appreciative. Did you purchase? Paul Marden: I did purchase on my way out. Catherine Pinkerton: Yay. Great, great, great.Paul Marden: Deal. Catherine Pinkerton: Deal. Thank you so much. Paul Marden: So after my trip 90 metres down to the bottom of the mine shaft, where I of course couldn't take microphones, I'm now back up on the surface, microphones back in hand and enjoying myself, wandering around currently in the winding house, which is where all the machinery is for lifting the cages that 90 metres down to the bottom of the pit head. I've had an amazing day here at Big Pit. It's been so interesting to see this museum and to talk to many of the amazing staff that have taken part in this big project to redesign their gift shops. Highly recommend a day trip to Big Pit. Really has been very enjoyable, if for no other reason, to see that amazing new gift shop experience. Paul Marden: Now, as always, if you'd like a copy of Catherine's book, head over to Blue sky and repost the show notice that Wenalyn will post out and say, I want a copy of Catherine's book and the first person to do that will get that copy sent over to them. So all that remains for me to say is thank you to Catherine for inviting me here to Big Pit today. And I'll see you again soon. Take care. Bye Bye. Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm.  The 2024 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the 2024 Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In this episode, Emily Ronquillo, Director of Marketing & Design, and Jason Moodie, Director of Learning & Visitor Experience, sit down with three SUU faculty members from different areas of the university to talk about how they engage with the museum in their courses.Kevin Koontz from Outdoor Recreation and Parks and Tourism tells us about how his classes visit SUMA to learn more about museum interpretation. Alex Bradshaw-Yerby from Dance shares how her students react to exhibitions through movement. And Susanna Herrmann from Graphic Design talks about how she uses the museum's collection to teach typography and poster design. We hope you learn more about how SUMA is an educational resource at SUU. If you want to bring a class for a tour at SUMA or learn even more about how to connect the museum to your syllabus, you can reach out to Jason at experiencesuma@suu.edu.

Sonia Winner is the CEO of the Cleveland Museum of Natural History. In July 2018, she became the 10th director of the Museum in its more than 100-year history, dating back to 1920. Since then, she has spearheaded a $150 million reinvention of the institution—reimagining its campus and exhibits to highlight the interconnectedness of life on Earth.Under her leadership, the Museum continues its century-long legacy as one of the nation's top natural history institutions, stewarding over 12,000 acres of protected ecosystems and housing more than 5 million artifacts and specimens. It is supported by a nearly 60-member Board of Directors, 140 staff members, and approximately $282 million in assets.Before joining CMNH, Sonia built an impressive career in higher education and philanthropy. At Columbia University, she led record-breaking fundraising efforts, helping to secure $6.1 billion for the university. Prior to that, she held leadership roles at Case Western Reserve University, serving as associate dean of both the Weatherhead School of Management and the School of Law. A lawyer by training, she also served as Director of the Cleveland-Marshall College of Law at Cleveland State University.This was an amazing conversation! Sonia's passion for this work shines through as we explore the transformative power of museums, cultivating childhood curiosity, the Museum's rich history and legacy, her personal journey to leading a major cultural institution, the ambitious centennial project aimed at revitalizing the museum experience, the overall business of museums, and so much more.00:00:00 – The Magic of Museums and Childhood Curiosity  00:06:59 – Personal Reflections on Museums and Nature  00:09:07 – Sonia's Journey to the Museum Leadership  00:16:42 – Understanding the Cleveland Museum of Natural History  00:17:02 – The Museum's Legacy and Community Impact  00:19:56 – Honoring History While Embracing Change  00:25:50 – The Centennial Project and Its Vision  00:31:52 – The Business of Museums: Challenges and Opportunities  00:35:15 – Balancing Accessibility and Sustainability in Museums  00:36:28 – Creating Memorable Visitor Experiences  00:37:38 – Dinosaurs: The Gateway to Natural History  00:40:45 – The Role of Museums in Scientific Literacy  00:45:22 – Trust in Museums: A Reflection of Society  00:47:41 – Understanding the Value of Local Museums  00:50:04 – Personal Stories and the Impact of Museums  00:52:03 – The Future of Museums: Programming and Community Engagement  00:53:13 – Leadership Lessons in the Museum Sector  00:56:43 – Women in Leadership: Challenges and Opportunities  00:57:27 – Hidden Gem -----LINKS:https://www.cmnh.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonia-winner-2699123/-----SPONSOR:Roundstone InsuranceRoundstone Insurance is proud to sponsor Lay of The Land. Founder and CEO, Michael Schroeder, has committed full-year support for the podcast, recognizing its alignment with the company's passion for entrepreneurship, innovation, and community leadership.Headquartered in Rocky River, Ohio, Roundstone was founded in 2005 with a vision to deliver better healthcare outcomes at a more affordable cost. To bring that vision to life, the company pioneered the group medical captive model — a self-funded health insurance solution that provides small and mid-sized businesses with greater control and significant savings.Over the past two decades, Roundstone has grown rapidly, creating nearly 200 jobs in Northeast Ohio. The company works closely with employers and benefits advisors to navigate the complexities of commercial health insurance and build custom plans that prioritize employee well-being over shareholder returns. By focusing on aligned incentives and better health outcomes, Roundstone is helping businesses save thousands in Per Employee Per Year healthcare costs.Roundstone Insurance — Built for entrepreneurs. Backed by innovation. Committed to Cleveland.-----Stay up to date by signing up for Lay of The Land's weekly newsletter — sign up here.Past guests include Justin Bibb (Mayor of Cleveland), Pat Conway (Great Lakes Brewing), Steve Potash (OverDrive), Umberto P. Fedeli (The Fedeli Group), Lila Mills (Signal Cleveland), Stewart Kohl (The Riverside Company), Mitch Kroll (Findaway — Acquired by Spotify), and over 200 other Cleveland Entrepreneurs.Connect with Jeffrey Stern on LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreypstern/Follow Lay of The Land on X @podlayofthelandhttps://www.jeffreys.page/

Art Bell - The Visitor Experience - Whitley Strieber

A pair of flimsy plastic headphones, a voice in your ears bombarding you with dates, names and historical periods, and a momentary pause at each work of art as you side-step the seemingly disinterested guided tour.If this sounds familiar, then museum facilitator and author Claire Bown is here to bring the museum alive for you! She reimagines the experience by making space for curiosity, conversation and participant-led interaction, turning passive presentations and fleeting glances into a treasure trove of stories, deep connection and meaning.Join Claire to slow down, welcome in a little more wondering, and discover what museum exploration can teach us about the art of participation.Find out about:The role of the museum environment in facilitating the experienceStrategies for engagement, from visual thinking to slow lookingWhy we must give space for observation, before jumping into explanationHow to achieve equal participation by re-designing group formationHow to acknowledge and invite in existing knowledge from the groupDon't miss the next episode: subscribe to the show with your favourite podcast player.Links:Watch the video recording of this episode on YouTube.Connect to Claire Bown:InstagramLinkedInPodcastNewsletterBookSupport the show✨✨✨Subscribe to our newsletter to receive a free 1-page summary of each upcoming episode directly to your inbox, or explore our eBooks featuring 50-episode compilations for even more facilitation insights. Find out more:https://workshops.work/podcast✨✨✨Did you know? You can search all episodes by keyword to find exactly what you need via our Buzzsprout page!

Can a small zoo in Michigan redefine the zoo experience and make a global impact? In this episode of Total Michigan, host Cliff DuVernois sits down with Jeremiah Tietz, the passionate director of Wilderness Trails Zoo. They delve into the zoo's interactive initiatives, conservation efforts, and Jeremiah's unique journey that led him back to Michigan. Discover how this sanctuary near Frankenmuth is creating immersive experiences for its visitors while contributing to worldwide conservation efforts. - Initiatives to Add More Public Interaction: Jeremiah emphasizes the zoo's focus on creating hands-on, memorable experiences for visitors, including a new rainforest building. - Global Conservation Efforts: Wilderness Trails Zoo engages in global species survival plans and has participated in success stories of reintroducing endangered species into the wild. - Jeremiah's Journey and Vision: From growing up with a passion for wildlife sparked at the Phoenix Zoo to becoming a Michigan-based director, Jeremiah aims to create a family-friendly destination that educates and inspires future generations.Links:Wilderness Trails Zoo Website: https://wildernesstrailszoo.org/Address:11721 Gera Rd, Birch Run, MI 48415Subscribe to our Email Newsletter: https://totalmichigan.com/join/Find us on Facebook: https://facebook.com/totalmichiganWatch on YouTube: https://youtube.com/@totalmichiganShow Notes:00:00 Introduction and New Initiatives01:14 Meet Jeremiah Tietz01:57 Wilderness Trail Zoo's Mission03:22 Zoo's Size and Scope03:59 Jeremiah's Background and Passion06:22 Veterinary Medicine and Zoo Career12:26 Conservation Efforts and Global Impact15:02 Challenges and Human Impact16:54 Returning to Wilderness Trail Zoo18:47 Future Plans and New Additions22:03 Reptile Rescue and Community Involvement24:21 Collaborative Efforts and Animal Care26:48 Visitor Experience and Goals28:17 How to Get Involved