Podcasts about netspend

Five-time Midas List investor Annie Lamont has seen every healthcare cycle since the genomics revolution. Now, as co-founder of Oak HC/FT and early investor in category-defining companies like One Medical, Athena Health, and Devoted Health, she believes 2025 could mark the return of animal spirits to healthcare investing. In this forward-looking conversation, Annie shares why AI might finally deliver on technology's promise to transform American healthcare, even as she warns entrepreneurs to watch out for the "revenge of the incumbents."We cover:

Episode Topic: Welcome to an insightful episode of PayPod, where we dive into the evolution of Customizable Payment products and the modernization of payment infrastructure. John Mitchell, co-founder and CEO of Episode Six, discusses the company's journey since its founding in 2015. The conversation revolves around the challenges and opportunities in the payments industry, with a particular emphasis on Episode Six's unique approach to providing a versatile tech platform that empowers financial institutions to build customized payment solutions. Lessons You'll Learn: Listeners will gain insights into the dynamics of the payments market, the significance of modernizing payment infrastructure, and the role of Episode Six in simplifying complex payment systems. John Mitchell shares lessons learned from the company's experience, emphasizing the importance of staying true to the mission, adapting to market changes, and providing solutions that bridge the gap between legacy systems and innovative technologies. The episode also delves into the trends shaping the payments industry, such as the shift towards multi-currency solutions, the impact of BNPL (Buy Now, Pay Later) on commercial transactions, and the ongoing effort to streamline processes and cut out unnecessary middlemen. About Our Guest: John Mitchell, the co-founder and CEO of Episode Six, has extensive experience in the payments industry including co-founding Netspend, a leading prepaid processor program manager, and building FX and multi-wallet platforms overseas. With a career spanning over two decades, Mitchell's deep understanding of the industry's nuances positions him as a seasoned expert. He leads a team dedicated to revolutionizing payment infrastructure and providing innovative solutions to financial institutions worldwide. Topics Covered: This episode covers a range of topics, including Episode Six's origin story, the challenges faced by financial institutions in adapting to new technologies, and the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on payment trends. The discussion extends to the current landscape of payment products, with a focus on virtual cards, B2B payments, and the growing importance of multi-currency solutions. John Mitchell also shares his perspective on the future of the payments industry, identifying opportunities for innovation, simplification, and collaboration. Whether you're interested in fintech, payment technology, or the evolution of financial services, this episode offers valuable insights into the ever-changing world of payments. Check our website: https://www.soarpay.com

Starting with $750 in their pockets, Roy and Bertrand Sosa built Netspend into a billion-dollar business and had an exit beyond their wildest dreams. Then they bought it back! Bradley talks to them about what they want Netspend to be when it grows up. Plus, as part of our bonus double-feature, he asks Martina Larkin of Project Liberty about what it takes to build a better Internet.This episode was taped at P&T Knitwear at 180 Orchard Street — New York City's only free podcast recording studio.Send us an email with your thoughts on today's episode: info@firewall.mediaSubscribe to Bradley's weekly newsletter, follow Bradley on Twitter, and visit the Firewall website.

Customer service is a critical department in any business because it can make or break both individual relationships and a company's reputation.   In this episode, Meg Porter, Executive Vice President of Enterprise Transformation at Ubiquity, discusses how to build a successful customer service program. She talks about how to train and manage customer service agents, why companies should consider ditching scripts, and why the customer is not always right.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on July 14, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

The last round in the battle between PayPal and the CFPB took place in the DC District Court, and IPA's Head of Government Relations, Chris Stromberg was there to hear the oral arguments.  In this episode, he discusses the arguments with IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and they consider what the possible outcomes could mean for the industry.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on July 13, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Artificial Intelligence has begun reshaping all parts of the business world, and payments is no exception.   To help its members prepare for the changes that are coming, the Innovative Payments Association has asked payments expert Sarah Grotta to write a white paper that gives an overview on AI and what it means for payments companies.   In this episode, we discuss the highlights of the paper and where and how AI in payments might evolve in the near future. We also cover how payments companies can begin to use AI in their own businesses.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on June 27, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

In his book Tools and Weapons, Microsoft President Brad Smith, writes about how the growth of technology is changing everyone's lives for better and worse.  In the latest meeting of the IPA book club, we are joined by Sandi Piatz, the head of market for APS, an IPA member, to discuss the book. She recommended it because it is an exploration of the issues facing the payments industry and society as a whole.   She is joined by IPA's CEO Brian Tate, and our director of government relations, Chris Stromberg. We discuss the need for collaboration to manage to promise and peril of new technology and how this applies to the payments industry. We also talk about fire horses.   The views expressed in this podcast represent the personal positions of the speakers and are not the official views of any company or the Association.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on June 14, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

    Fifth Third Bank's recent acquisition of fintech Rise Money builds on a long history of financial services innovation.   In this episode, Tom Bianco, the general manager of embedded payments at Fifth Third, discusses the Rise acquisition and how it is part of a tradition developing new products and services. We discuss how the bank approaches questions like whether to build, buy, or partner for new products, and how it decides what areas to examine next.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on June 1, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.    

It looks like a busy summer ahead. In this episode, Brian Tate, the IPA's CEO, and Chris Stromberg, IPA's director of government relations, discuss what is happening at the state and federal levels of regulation. They cover a pending bill to ban plastic gift cards in California, a recent issue spotlight on payment apps from the CFPB, and upcoming hearings in the House and Senate with regulators.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on June 9, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.      

Successful innovation in financial services requires a number of elements to come together in just the right way.   Innovators need to combine new technology, market opportunities, and regulatory compliance to create the next generation of successful products.  The keys to making this combination work came out in the IPA's recent conference. In this episode, Brian Tate, the IPA's CEO, and Tim Sloane, the moderator of our conference discuss the themes and clues for success that the conference speakers revealed.   They discuss the growth of AI, the threat of financial crimes, and regulatory trends.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on May 25, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.    

The growth of Fintech has led banks to examine opportunities in acting as a sponsor bank and offer Banking as a Service. This offers opportunities for innovative banks, but success is not guaranteed. In this episode, Michael Haney, the head of product strategy at Galileo, discusses the tools needed to be successful in Banking as a Service (BaaS).  We cover how to identify opportunities, what banks need to have in place to launch a program, and how to manage the business. The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible. This podcast was recorded on May 18, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.

Can a book written in the 1500s teach us anything about the modern payments industry?  That is the question the IPA team is tackling with our latest book club reading, “The Prince” by Nicolo Machiavelli. Originally written as a guide to power for political leaders battling over city states in renaissance Italy, the book has been on the reading lists of politicians, business leaders, and academics over the past 500 years.   In this episode, Brian Tate, the IPA's CEO, and Chris Stromberg, the director of government relations, look at the book through a modern lens and see what lessons it might have to offer to anyone looking to wield power today. They also examine whether or not political and business principles intersect.    The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on May 3, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Buying new technology can be a real adventure for banks that want to keep up with the times, so the real question is how to avoid the pitfalls that can come when investing in fintech.   In this episode, Kiah Haslett, the managing editor of Bank Director Magazine and Laura Alix, the magazine's director of research, discuss their new report “Finding Fintechs” and how it can help banks choose their own adventure when it comes to buying Fintech. Their definition of “Fintech” is a little broader than the common parlance. They talk about the strategic and practical considerations for adding new technology, and why the short-term bottom line may not be the best investment criteria.  You can find the report here: Finding Fintechs: A Choose Your Own Adventure Guide | Bank Director  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on April 11, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

The recent failures of Silicon Valley Bank and Signature Bank may not be the biggest news in financial services.   In this episode, the IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and Chris Stromberg, the IPA's director of government relations, talk about current events that could shape the future of the payments industry. They get into the Supreme Court case on the CFPB's funding, what is happening on Capitol Hill, and the CFPB's announcement on UDAAP.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on April 13, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

The Second Installment of the IPA Book Club delves into the realm of Bitcoin, blockchains, and all things crypto with The Age of Cryptocurrency by Paul Vigna and Michael J. Casey.  In this episode, the IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and Ben Jackson, the IPA's COO, discuss their thoughts on the book. They cover what they think the book got right, where it went in the wrong direction, and what the book can tell us about where the payments industry is headed.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.  This podcast was recorded on April 5, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Payroll information is used for all kinds of financial decisions, but individual workers and employers often need to jump through hoops to share it.   In this episode, Jordan Wright, Atomic's CEO and co-founder, describes how the company is working to solve the problems that employers and employees face when trying to share payroll data.   We discuss how the availability of that data can enable lenders, insurers, and even employers to offer a better experience and broader set of financial products for workers than they can without it.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on March 9, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

While questions have been raised about its future, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau still remains at the center of payments regulation in Washington.   In this episode, Brian Tate, the IPA's CEO, and Chris Stromberg, IPA's director of government relations discuss everything that has been happening with the Bureau.  They discuss the Bureau's recent announcements, Congressional inquires to the Bureau, and the pending Supreme Court cases.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on March 9, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

How can start-ups create effective compliance programs with limited resources?  This is a question many founders struggle with, and the key to is success is recognizing when they need help.   In this episode Jamie Uppenberg, the founder of Uppenberg Associates, discusses how fintechs can build an effective compliance program that grows with the company.  We talk about how compliance is more than just a good set of documents, how fintechs and banks should communicate, and what banks should look for in their partners.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on February 23, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Did the financial crisis leave us with any lessons that apply to a rapidly evolving payments industry?  To dig into this question, the IPA staff recently read and had a discussion on Michael Lewis's book, The Big Short. The IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and Chris Stromberg, our director of government relations joined Ben Jackson to discuss the book and what it can tell us about our current situation.   This podcast is the inaugural episode for the IPA book club. Over the coming year we plan to read a number of books that address the theme of innovation inside the financial services industry and beyond. We invite our listeners to read along and let us know what you think. If you have a particularly strong opinion on one of our selections, we'd be happy to include you in an episode.   Our March book will be The Age of Cryptocurrency, by Paul Vigna and Michael J. Casey.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on February 15, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.

Activity in all three branches of government could lead to changes in payments.   From congressional hearings to court cases to the State of the Union, payments is getting its fair share of attention from the federal government. In this episode, the IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and Chris Stromberg, our director of government relations, discuss how these things are shaping the operating ecosystem for payments companies.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on February 9, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Buy Now, Pay Later products have emerged as a new financing tools for shoppers and merchants, and now Galileo wants to help banks make use of this new type of payment.  People who run into an unexpected or emergency expense may need an option for short-term financing. Galileo's new tool gives bank another way to offer these funds to their customers. In this episode, Dave Feuer, Galileo's chief product officer, talks about how the product can help customers make ends meet, and make banks more competitive.    The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on February 2, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

When Pathward bank decided to rebrand, the changes meant a lot more than just new a new logo.   In this episode, Pathward's President Anthony Sharett, explains how the name change included structural changes at the bank and a refocused strategy.   He also discusses the company's financial inclusion mission, the trends it sees in payments innovation, and how it chooses partners.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on February 13, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

While the future of payments will undoubtedly include blockchains, cryptocurrencies, and stablecoins, what will that mean for the industry?  To start answering this question, the Innovative Payments Association recently held its “Crypto Universe from A to Z event at the offices of Davis, Wright, Tremaine, in Washington DC. In this episode, we discuss the themes and ideas that emerged during the day with Tim Sloane, the moderator of the sessions.  The IPA thanks Davis, Wright, Tremaine for hosting the event.   We also thank our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this podcast possible.   This podcast was recorded on January 23, 2023. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.    

The past year has been a busy one in financial regulation. Crypto crashes, court cases, and Congressional clashes will all have effects that will have effects into 2023 and beyond. In this episode, Brian Tate, the IPA's CEO, and Chris Stromberg, our director of government relations, discuss the past year's events with an eye to how they will shape the future of regulation and the payments industry. The industry could see major changes to way it is regulated, so now is the time to make sure that your compliance team is on the ball. The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible. This podcast was recorded on December 19, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.

ExpanseFT is a new name in fintech that is backed by experience.  The company, which is over 10 years old, announced in October that it had changed its name from Prepaid Ventures. In this episode, we talk with Andrew Siden, the chief executive officer of ExpanseFT, about the company's creation, its growth, and how the name change is rebranding it for the future.  In the interview, we also discuss how to incorporate innovation into products and what entrepreneurs need to keep in mind to be successful. We also discuss the importance of timing and luck.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on November 16, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Innovative fields often struggle to find qualified staff, and the payments industry faces this problem every day.   The University of Georgia has created a program across its system to prepare students to solve problems in Fintech. In this episode, we present an edited version of a presentation done by Art Recesso, Vice Chancellor for Academic Innovation at University System of Georgia. He covers how the system is working with the industry to understand its needs and create a pipeline of new talent.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on November 16, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

The results of the 2022 midterm elections held a number of surprises, and political analysts are still trying to figure out what they all mean.  In this episode, the IPA's CEO, Brian Tate, and Chris Stromberg, our director of government relations, look at the midterms through a payments regulation lens. They discuss what a divided government will mean for payments legislation and regulation, and how it might relate to court cases against the CFPB.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on November 17, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Financial crime has gotten more complex over time, and to keep up with the criminals, law enforcement and the industry need to work together.   In this episode, you will hear a conversation with Special Agent Charles Orgbon of the FBI's Atlanta Field office on how the Bureau is forming partnerships with the payments industry. We discuss how the FBI has worked with companies in the past and best practices for working with the FBI.  The interview came at the conclusion of a day-long session with FBI experts and the Atlanta payments community. The IPA wants to thank InComm Payments for hosting us. We plan to hold future meetings with local field offices in other cities.   Links mentioned in this episode include:  The FBI's site: Welcome to fbi.gov — FBI  Domestic Security Alliance Council: Welcome to Domestic Security Alliance Council - DSAC — DSAC  Internet Crimes Complaint Center: Internet Crime Complaint Center(IC3) | Home Page  InfraGard: Home (infragard.org)  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on November 10, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.

Build, buy, or partner are the three paths to innovation for most banks, and Truist is planning to use a combination of all three to take it into the future.   The bank had been looking at a partnership with the fintech Long Game, which created an app that uses mobile games to help people save money while learning about personal finance. That conversation grew into an acquisition that has increased Truist's ability to build new financial services.   In this episode, Lindsay Holden, the founder of Long Game, and Christina Russ, the head of strategi investment initiatives for Truist Ventures, discuss how the deal came about, how it will increase Truist's innovation capacities going forward, and what other fintechs and banks can learn from the deal.   The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on October 20, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

With the midterms approaching, Congress is not paying much attention to legislation on financial services, but the regulators' focus on the industry has not waivered.  In this episode, the IPA's government relations team, Brian Tate, the association's CEO, and Chris Stromberg, the director of government relations, discuss recent actions by the regulators, including debit card transaction routing rules and the latest activity at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. They also cover what the midterm elections might mean for the future of financial services regulation.  The IPA thanks our member sponsor, Netspend, for helping to make this show possible.   This podcast was recorded on October 13, 2022. Things may have changed by the time you hear it.  

Good marketing seems like it would be a crucial part of any business plan, but even the best marketing plans in the world come with risks.   In this episode, we present a lightly edited version of the audio from our Oct. 4 webinar, The Dangers of Good Marketing with Adwait Joshi, the founder and Chief Seer at DataSeers, an AI software provider for banks and fintechs.   He discusses the risks of good marketing, including the business risks of attracting the wrong kinds of customers and the security risks of drawing the attention of fraudsters. He also talks about how to implement solutions.   We want to thank our member sponsor NetSpend for supporting the show. 

Have you ever wondered about what the role of a Chief of Staff at Indeed entails? This week Chris meets with Vera Hinojosa, his Chief of Staff, to talk about meaning and purpose.  Vera has worked at some of the world's biggest companies including Dell, HP, Arthur Anderson and NetSpend and on that journey a pivotal moment helped her to find the meaning and purpose in her career. This led her on a path of deep introspection and research.  She gained a masters in human dimension of organisations at the University of Texas, Austin and she joined Indeed in February 2020.  This discussion will focus on why meaning is so personal, how to go about discovering and embracing your own meaning and how to create meaning and purpose at scale.  The discussion will also take place during Hispanic Heritage Month and Vera will share some reflections on her heritage and how it shapes her career today.  You leave this discussion with new ways to create meaning for yourself and your teams. 

August is supposed to be a quiet month in Washington DC, but this year, it was just the prelude to what promises to be a busy autumn.   In this episode, the IPA's CEO Brian Tate, and Chris Stromberg, IPA's head of government relations, talk about where things stand today and what will shape the payments ecosystem in the months to come.    They talk about the philosophical approaches the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau are taking towards fintechs, the midterm elections, and ongoing lawsuits that may shape the industry.  The IPA would like to thank its member sponsor Netspend for its support of this podcast.    If you want to keep up with what all of this means for your compliance obligations, then join the IPA on September 29 in Chicago for our 2022 Compliance boot Camp. Learn more and register today at: 2022 Compliance Boot Camp (ipa.org).  To attend the IPA's reception at Money 2020, register at: Money 20/20 2022 Event | Money 2020 RSVP Blank (stinsonnews.com) 

Employers spend $1000s to replace and rehire an employee so it's critical that business leaders respond to the demands and needs of their hourly workforce with new resources and tools that keep them engaged and happy. In this HRchat episode, we consider why offering things like same-day digital access to tips and early access to earned wages can help organizations retain their staff. Bill Banham's guest this time is Andrew Garner SVP and General Manager of Business Partnerships at Netspend, provider of payments and financial solutions for consumers and businesses. As the trusted partner to many of the world's most recognized brands, Netspend connects people, brands and payment products to deliver helpful financial solutions.Questions for Andy Include: You're quoted in benefitnews.com as saying “People are looking for different experiences [at work] — and it goes back to employees reflecting on their career and their life... They're looking for certain things like higher wages, or immediate access to their tips or earned wages every single day.” What's changed in the past couple of years to cause this reflection and how much has better tech contributed to expectations around getting paid faster? The idea of earned wage access is quickly becoming a key tool for recruitment and retention. Please explain the process and offer stats around how many employees in the US and elsewhere could benefit. How can financial insecurity impact employee mental wellbeing? Considering that the loss of a single hourly worker can cost an average of $4k to replace and rehire for the position, why do you believe there's a pressing need for business leaders to get creative with new resources and tools for better financial management and earned wage access for their employees?More About NetspendA pioneer in providing financial services to traditionally underserved consumers, Netspend is continuing to make payments accessible to more markets in more ways. Netspend's open technology platform enables businesses to quickly and securely embed payments solutions into their ecosystems and seamlessly brings innovation to market. Netspend products can be acquired online, through its mobile apps, and at more than 100,000 locations nationwide including retail outlets, tax preparation offices, and financial service providers, and through corporate pay card and tips partners. Based in Austin, Texas, Netspend is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Global Payments Inc.We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast, and Iceni Media Inc.  

In this episode, sponsored by Netspend, we'll discuss digital payments at stadiums and other venues and how venue operators benefit from improved fan experience and operations, as well as the ability to collect data. Joining us is Derek Tanis, Senior Vice President leading Netspend's Consumer Partnerships team.

Are you a CEO, a founder or a leader in the C suite? Did you have to let go of half your employees in 2020 or some of your senior leadership team? Or are you going through a huge reorganization of your business and trying to figure out how to be skillful, navigate racial inequities at work? And lets throw another piece into the mix, it's the middle of a pandemic! It sounds like a movie, but its not. You are not alone my friend. Our topic for today is conscious entrepreneurship with Suzi Sosa. Suzi is CEO and co-founder of Verb, a learning development platform, a loving mom, a friend, a sister, and a social entrepreneur. In this interview, we are going deep into three timely topics, each of which will provide you with applicable action steps to lead more consciously at work and in your life. We explore the fear mindset that Suzi grew up with and how she chooses to shift that story by staying awake, trusting, and surrendering. We also examine the inner game skills that Suzi relied on in the last year to be the conscious inclusive leader that she is. Lastly, how she responded skillfully in the midst of a difficult conversation and conflict around anti-racism with her team members. Suzi articulates how she did it and how she is continuing to learn and grow. Tune in to this insightful episode today!   SHINE Links: Leading from Wholeness Executive Coaching Leading from Wholeness Learning and Development Resources Shine: Ignite Your Inner Game to Lead Consciously at Work and in the World by Carley Hauck Contact Carley Hauck Sign up for the Podcast! Carley on LinkedIn   Resources mentioned in this episode: Suzi Sosa on LinkedIn Verb, Inc. The Surrender Experiment: My Journey Into Life's Perfection by Michael A. Singer The Healing Organization: Awakening the Conscious of Business to Help Heal the World by Rajendra Sisodia and Michael J. Gelb     The Imperfect Shownotes   Carley Hauck 0:01   Hi, this is Carley Hauck and welcome to season four of the SHINE podcast. This is the last interview of the season. This podcast is all about the intersection of three things: conscious, inclusive leadership, the recipe for high performing teams, and awareness practices.   Before I tell you about our topic today, can you go over to Apple podcasts, hit the subscribe button so you don't miss any of our incredible interviews. I have many wonderful folks lined up for season five, which will end out 2021. And it would help so much if you could write a positive review, it helps folks find us and supports sharing the light. Thank you so much.   Our topic for today is conscious entrepreneurship with Suzi Sosa. Are you a CEO, a founder or a leader in the C suite? Did you have to let go of half your employees and 2020 or some of your senior leadership team? Or are you going through a huge reorganization of your business and trying to figure out how to be skillful, navigate racial inequities at work. And it's the middle of a pandemic? Sounds like a movie. You are not alone my friend.   Meet one of my favorite humans and conscious inclusive leaders Suzi Sosa. Suzi is CEO and co-founder of Verb, a learning development platform, a loving mom, a friend, a sister, a social entrepreneur. In this interview, we are going deep into three things. And you will be able to really take away some applicable action steps to lead more consciously at work and in your life.   Number one, how Suzi grew up with this narrative that if you aren't vigilant, on it all the time, your life is gonna fall apart, you'll be destitute. That's a lot of fear mindset. Learn how she chooses to shift that story by staying awake, taking one step at a time, trusting and surrendering the path.   Number two, what inner game skills has Suzi relied on in the last year to be the conscious inclusive leader that she is? Number three- how do you respond skillfully in the midst of a difficult conversation and conflict around anti racism with your team members? Suzi will articulate how she did it. And it's continuing to learn and grow. It's always a choice in practice. These are just some of the nuggets I loved out of this interview. I'm excited to share it with you. Thanks for being here.   Carley Hauck 03:37   Suzi, I feel so delighted to have you on the SHINE podcast. Thank you for being here.   Suzi Sosa 03:42   Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be with you.   Carley Hauck 03:45 So everyone, this is my friend Suzi Sosa who is the co-founder and CEO of Verb. And I can't wait for you to hear her story and let her shine her beautiful light. So Suzi, one of the first questions that I often ask folks to come on to the podcast is what does conscious inclusive leadership and business mean to you?   Suzi Sosa 04:16   Hmm. Why I think the word conscious is the first one that means the most to me, which is really about waking up. And that's actually something that I found in my inner work is actually my life's purpose is to wake people up. And to be conscious of what's happening. I think that, you know, a lot of us go around life in a kind of non state, we do things by default. There's a sort of obvious way to do things. And to me, to be a conscious leader means you're not just walking around running your company in the obvious default way, you're actually fully present in, you know, mind body spirit.   And asking yourself, you know, is this the way that I want to do things? Is this what is best for me? Is this what's best for my people? Is this what's best for the customers? Is this what's best for the planet? So that's what conscious leadership is, to me, it's awake, right? It's fully present.   And I think inclusive leadership is a very natural derivative of that, that when you wake up, and you look around at what you're doing, as a business leader, you become aware that not everybody is experiencing the same level of inclusion. And that's hurting your business. So you, I believe, then start to think about, okay, what does it take for me to create the kind of company that you know, is holistic, is healing and welcomes all. So conscious and inclusive business as one that's being very intentional about how it shows up, what it wants to do, how it interacts with all of its stakeholders, it's serving something higher than financial motive. And, you know, it's really driven by that kind of stakeholder model, where it's not just providing benefit to one singular group of shareholders, but it's really thinking about the inclusivity of all different kinds of stakeholders that it impacts.   Carley Hauck 06:40   Wonderful, thank you. So I hear part of it is waking up. It's really taking into account all the people that the business is impacting, and really looking to see how it can bring an inclusive, maybe lens, to all the stakeholders, just kind of summarizing some of those key points. And I heard, more importantly, that your purpose is to wake people up. So I want to go into that a little bit. How are you waking people up? Right now?   Suzi Sosa 07:13   In this conversation with you, hopefully, someone will listen to this. And oh, I've never thought of that before. Right now, my fulfillment of my life's purpose is as the CEO of a company called Verb. And we provide leadership training through an online platform. And we focus specifically on the conscious skills that you write about, in SHINE, that we call, at Verb, we call them human centered leadership skills. And they include things like self awareness, empathy, authenticity, self care.   And, so my, my vision, and my goal for Verb is that we offer this training through companies to their employees, and that people get exposed to the possibility of a different way of being through what we teach them on Verb, much like you do with your book. And that they kind of wake up to the possibility of showing up differently at work, but and in other aspects of their life, that maybe that self awareness, or that newfound mindfulness or newfound connection to compassion might also wake them up to how they are being with their children or with their partner with their neighbor, or whoever it might be.   So that's my goal right now is to help people wake up to a life of greater fulfillment, joy, connection, by getting access to these personal power skills that maybe they didn't really know about before.   Carley Hauck 8:58   And what I imagine is also inherent, even though you didn't say it is maybe waking up to greater meaning, right? And even even like the purpose that you feel very connected to, you know, we are in such an important time, and you and I've had a lot of side conversations about this, but just the the opportunity and the responsibility that we have, as a humanity right now as a collective to really make the right decisions for the long term for the future generations.   And I think that right now, as we're seeing in the workplace, this great resignation happening where 40% of folks are leaving their current roles in their jobs, mostly because either it wasn't the right fit or it's not the right team, or it's void of real meaning and purpose. And when we have things hovering above us, like, you know, systemic racism and impending climate change and you know, climate catastrophe like it brings it home that what I am actually choosing right now has more impact than maybe any other time.   Suzi Sosa 10:15   Yeah. For sure, I think that, you know, everybody's waking up to this a little bit. And in the last year and a half, when many people have felt, you know, that death was closer than ever before. Suddenly, you ask yourself, oh, gosh, well, if my time here is short, what do I want to do with my life? Who do I want to spend time with? How do I want my days to be? Who do I want to put myself in service to? If that's what work is? Right? Do I want to be in service of selling a product that causes harm? Or do I want to be in service of a business that is doing good?   Carley Hauck 11:02   Wonderful? Well, I know that you started off, you know, in social entrepreneurship, and in many ways Verb is continuing that just, you know, it kind of in a different way and a different model. And for those folks that don't know what social entrepreneurship is, and I know that you were, you know, part of co-creating the social entrepreneurship program at UT Austin, you were also recognized in 2014, as Ernst and Young was a social entrepreneur of the year. Could you tell folks what that is, and why that's important to you?   Suzi Sosa 11:43   Yeah, I'd be happy to. And I'll just tell a little bit of a story of how I got to it. Because I didn't really know what it was in the beginning. I went to grad school to become a civil servant. I thought that was how I could support and help the most people, I was always clear that I wanted to be an agent of social change. And my second day of work was 9/11. I was working. I was working in the US Department of Commerce, giving grants to low income communities in the southwest and in the southwest region, based in Austin. And our budget was frozen, as the government kind of recalibrated how they wanted to respond to 9/11.   And I was young and idealistic and impatient. So I quit. I said, Well, you guys aren't doing anything. And there's a lot that needs to get done. And I ended up meeting an entrepreneur here in Austin, Texas, who had started one of the very first prepaid debit card companies called Netspend. And they were selling these prepaid cards to the working poor, mostly African American and Hispanic women who didn't want to use traditional bank accounts because they were living paycheck to paycheck. And those overdraft fees might be what they would spend monthly on their utilities or on groceries. And so they couldn't afford $40 of overdraft fees once or twice a month.   And I was captivated by this business, because it was actually serving a very needy population with a product that actually the federal government had been trying to figure out. They had been creating federal banking programs to help the unbanked, but they hadn't been very successful in distribution. And so then this was in the early 2000s. And I started wandering around asking, why can't we take the best of the nonprofit world and the best of the business world and bring them together, and I didn't have a term for it at the time. But eventually, I stumbled on this, quote, social entrepreneurship community. And they were using terms like double bottom line and triple bottom line businesses, which meant that you would build a business that was held accountable not just to financial performance, but also to some kind of social impact goals. Or if it was triple bottom line, it would have financial goals, social impact goals, and environmental goals.   And so that was like my people. And I kind of dedicated myself to social entrepreneurship, both in terms of working with entrepreneurs in the for profit world, and also in the nonprofit world, looking at things like earned income models and helping nonprofits to become more scalable and more financially healthy and not always relying on donations. And it was very much a stepping stone to conscious capitalism and conscious leadership where I am now.   The piece that was missing for me in social entrepreneurship is actually the individual and personal piece. It was always focused on the structure of the business. So if you had a double bottom line business, you were a social entrepreneur. And it didn't matter whether you were living a life of integrity, practicing responsibility, being authentic, creating trust, because no one was talking about the personal dimension. And it wasn't until I arrived in the conscious capitalism community that they brought that layer in too. So there was accountability for how the business was organized, and accountability for how you as a leader show up and how you interact with your team.   Carley Hauck 15:28   Well, and they're so integrated, right, like, you can't have one without the other.   Suzi Sosa 15:36   Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of social enterprises that I don't think are run consciously, where, you know, people are not given time for self care, or where there isn't honesty and integrity. So there's a bit of hypocrisy there, right. And so I think it's really fantastic to, like, level up the game, it's not just enough to have a social impact, or maybe, you know, have a positive environmental impact. There's also the kind of how you show up as a human being that matters to?   Carley Hauck 16:08   Well, that's a really great pivot, thank you for that answer, into, you know, how you are choosing to show up right now, at work as a leader of Verb, for your family, for your community. And in the last year and a half, we've all been going through quite a lot of volatility, of uncertainty of ambiguity of complexity. And I know that consciousness is something that's a value to you, and you've already had various practices.   But I wonder, what are the practices that have really helped you stay strong? And we could say, awake and courageous at this time? And maybe even is there one that you are even growing more into leaning more into? So they're kind of two separate questions like, what's the base, now that you've had, because like, I even think about myself, you know, I wrote for four years on this inner game, which was really written for this time, you know, for this complex, uncertain time. And so I'm aware that thank goodness, I already had this foundation of practice for 20 plus years. And I'd been teaching it and facilitating it. And it never goes away. Like, it's never like, Oh, I'm done. We just had this conversation, there are layers and layers and going into even deeper aspects of these capabilities of the skills.   Suzi Sosa 17:48   For sure. You know, the time when my conscious leadership was forged, was really, in 2013, I had decided to get divorced. And I had, at the time, a one year old and a three year old. And I started Verb, the same year. And unfortunately, you know, in the wake of my divorce, I was not in a very financially healthy position, I had quite a bit of debt, I think I had about $5,000 of savings, and a brand new company. And so there was a lot of resilience needed to navigate the trials and tribulations of the startup. And also just this whole new identity.   You know, I remember I used to think about myself as a divorcee, I can't know what it all of that means. And it was in those early years as Verb floundered and as I really didn't have any kind of safety net, that I had to build those skills of self awareness, like Who am I? And I'm no longer this wife, I'm no longer this, you know, partner, I have a whole new identity being created. And I'm having to manage very young kids, a brand new company and all of this uncertainty.   So like you, I feel grateful that I've had, you know, a decade of intense practice, and the last year called upon a lot of those skills. And when I, you know, first went through that period in 2012-2013, I think that, uh, at the time, I was learning how to toggle a lot between a couple of different energy states and one was kind of a self care. So for me, that's been a mixture of meditation, exercise, healthy eating and rest. And when I go through periods of intense stress, I actually do tend to lean into that more and I get more regular with exercise more regular with cooking and, and then what that toggles between is actually kind of a warrior energy, which is about focus, prioritization, really figuring out what's important making difficult decisions confronting things.   And so last year and 2020, I really relied back on those kind of two natures at times of, you know, really focusing more on caregiving, whether myself or with my team, and at other times really focusing on warrior energy and decisive leadership. Where I'm moving to now is I really was taken by Mickey Singer's book, The Surrender Experiment, and this concept of really just surrendering to whatever's happening, because I think that the inner game skills that I learned in the 2012-2013 period, and even that I relied on last year, are still trying to kind of muscle things a little bit, like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm really gonna go intense into self care, you know, and there's a bit of like, look at me how much I'm self caring. And now it's like, I'm really gonna go into leadership and, and what I love about where you're on exactly, and what I love about the practice of surrender is not muscling in anymore. And for me, that is really leaning into faith, abundance, the sense of trust that things are going to work out. And that's like a higher order, way of being a conscious leader.   So it's, it's challenging, you know, I was raised in a family culture where the, you know, we were taught, if you're not vigilant, your life will fall apart, you know, that the, that the universe tends toward chaos, isolation, disease, death, poverty, you know, basically, if you are not on it at all times, you'll be, you know, destitute, dying, and under a bridge. And so it's a choice I have to make to believe that the universe has got my back. And all I need to do is just like, stay awake, stay open, and keep walking in the path that is, you know, being revealed in front of me. So that's, that's my current focus and what I'm working on.   Carley Hauck 22:28   Hmm, thank you so much. That was a beautiful answer. And I just can really feel the depth of how you have experimented and your awareness of watching it. of, you know, we could say the masculine, the feminine, right, that Yin Yang, and then this surrendering, which I just kind of think of is like that middle point, where you're just oh, this is this is what's happening. Okay. This is how I'm choosing to show up right now.   Suzi Sosa 23:00   Yeah, and just stay in that place of curiosity, like, I've really been practicing, saying to myself, Oh, I can't wait to see how this is gonna work out. You know, when I'm in a moment of uncertainty, and instead of worrying about it and ruminating on scenarios, Oh, I'm so curious to see how this is gonna work out.   Carley Hauck 23:20   I have some questions that I asked myself too, which just kind of turns it. It's more that growth mindset of the possibility, which is like, Oh, I wonder what amazing opportunities are gonna come in my door, or I wonder what incredible team I'm going to join. Or I wonder how I'm going to be in service today? Or like, Where's the magic interview today? You know, just all of those, I think, keeps it in a state of Unknowing but positive outlook. Yeah. Yeah. Great.   Well, I have so many more questions for you. So the next one I'd love to ask is, you know, I, I know that a few months ago, we were going to have a conversation just just to chat and talk informally and catch up and you emailed me and basically shared with me, from a very skillful way. Hey, Carley, um, you didn't use these words, but essentially, like you weren't in a good space to talk.   And that was because of a conflict that was happening within your team at Verb around the subject of anti racism. And you wanted to take time to reflect, to figure out how you wanted to show up and I wanted to ask you, how you were able to be authentic, about your views on that. To engage in more healthy conflict with your team around a topic that clearly you felt very passionate about, and we're having a lot of feelings about depending on, you know, the conversations and maybe the different worldview and lived experiences that other folks were having, and then how you were able to maybe bring in some compassionate accountability and agreements, would you be willing to share more?   Suzi Sosa 25:22     Yes, you know, the conversation about race equity inclusion was another one of the very hard things that showed up for me in 2020. You know, my business last year was, you know, in a state of survival. And I was very focused on, you know, making it through what, at the time, you know, we didn't have any visibility into how long this pandemic was going to last and what was going to happen to the economy afterward. So in June of 2020, we had started to expand our own DEI offerings inside of our product for our customers, because as a leadership development platform, it was obviously a topic that we needed to be supporting companies with.   And my team leadership team came to me as a group, and said, Hey, we don't feel comfortable selling this when we're not doing this work actively in the company. And, and my very first reaction was like, I don't have time for this, you know, I felt like we were in survival mode. And I also was just confronted that you know, what, you know, you think, you know, our company is not not being run well. And it was very challenging, I had so much resistance to even wanting to take on learning about something new, and exploring my own blind spots, you know, coming up with a point of view, one of the things they wanted me to do was to write a statement about Verbs a point of view on racism after the murders last year, and I felt like overwhelmed.   Like, I didn't know what my point of view was, I hadn't really been reading about it, I hadn't been thinking about it. And so that sparked a journey that we are on now to become an anti-racist company and support other companies and becoming anti-racist. And on the day, when you and I were supposed to have a call, we had our anti-racism working group had just met. And we, some of the group members had facilitated a conversation with the rest of us about how white supremacy, culture shows up at Verb.   And they we broke into small groups and so we broke into small groups, and then everybody reported out and I'm sitting there listening to my team members, speaking plainly about their experience of how the culture of white supremacy shows up at Verb- a company that I that I think of as being run as a conscious company, and we specialize in conscious leadership. And it was very intense. And confronting, and, and that's why I couldn't talk to you because I was like, I have to process this. Yeah, hold on a moment.   Carley Hauck 28:32   Yeah, be reflective, self manage, I felt very in support of you taking that time taking care of yourself. Yes.   We're at the midway point of this wonderful interview. And I wanted to take just a few minutes to pause to take a little body break, breath, notice the tension in your body, maybe do some shoulder circles back, take some deep breaths, a little wiggle, a little sigh.   And I'd like to share an insight that I've been gathering in the last 1920 months since the pandemic started. I've been talking to lots of CEOs, founders, chro, Senior talent, folks, these are the people that I partner with when I'm brought in to support learning, leadership development, culture work. And what I knew when the pandemic hit was that these more extrinsic rewards of, you know, free cafeteria food and Amazon gift cards and shuttle buses that would bring all the commuters in Silicon Valley where I lived and served many industries and high growth startups for many years. That's not available anymore. So because I've always known the need for learning leadership development, I knew that that was going to become the new priority. And that would be what would actually keep teams and companies thriving, engaged, connected, high performing and innovative.   And in the past, learning, leadership development and culture work was typically the first thing that was cut by the budget. But now, I see this recognition of companies in all industries that this is the thing that we need to invest in, and we need to invest in our people. And because I've supported so many different companies in the last decade, LinkedIn, Intuit, Pixar, Bank of the West, high growth startups, I've often been brought in for the reorg to implement new structure systems. And it is imperative that when we're going through the reorg, which is what we're all doing right now, all businesses all over the world, that there's an assessment to see where is the psychological safety and trust in the teams and the leadership and the overall culture because if that's not there, then any new systems, any new structures are not going to succeed.   And upskilling is really what we're seeing is going to create this flourishing, hybrid distributed future of work. And the upskilling that I've really supported in many industries and companies, I call this the inner game or the power skills. These have everything to do with being a human centered leader and workplace. And they're what I talk about in my new book SHINE. And they support the company to get ready for the new next. And by investing internally in your people, and upskilling in these capabilities for self awareness, emotional intelligence, empathy, agility, decision making, critical thinking, resilience, you're creating an environment to nurture the best possible potential.   And you're also giving your employees what they really want, which is learning and leadership and mentoring and coaching, and they're not going to want to go anywhere else, they're gonna want to stay. I would love to support you in the challenges that you and your business are facing right now. And I have a proven track record of success and a wealth of experience, and strategic know-how to do this. You can book a free consultation with me to learn more on how I and my team can support you in a more full time capacity. The link is in the show notes. Now back to the interview.   Suzi Sosa 33:13   But I think that, you know, how leaders respond to those moments is everything. And so when you, you know, ask me, you know, how do I help support, productive conflict, that Verb, it's in the way that I respond in moments like that, right? And at the time, I intently listened, and I had my inner game skills, like, on on all cylinders, because there were so many moments in that conversation where the little voice in my head wanted to argue, rebut, you know, whatever respond or even sometimes just shut down in shame, you know, and it was like, stay open, stay open, listen, be present, hear what they're saying. You know, and, and so it's moments like those that create the like, kind of organizational history and culture that allow for other conflict for other voices to come up.   Carley Hauck 34:23   Well, and for transformation and healing, right? Like if we're not willing to stay, and we go into that fight or flight response, right, the fight or the shutting down in the freezer, or just the freeze, right? And then there is that break, and it takes courage to be willing to stay to be with that level of discomfort. And, you know, stay open to it, stay in curiosity, you would use that word before. So where are you now?   Suzi Sosa 34:55   We, actually personally, what a transformation just for myself, like, I remember it starting out that I was appalled by the idea that I would ever call myself a racist, like, I am not a racist, you know, I was so sure of that. And now I know I was just, I am a racist, and I was racist, just unknowingly. You know, I was kind of oblivious. I don't know if there's a term, but I was kind of oblivious, racist, because I was not at all thinking about the experience of non-white people, in my company, in our in my neighborhood, in our country.   And so there was a great awakening for me. And also, I did, I joined some courses. So I kind of got deep into the learning part of the work, which gave me a level of enough confidence about the topic that I could start to form my own point of view, which is where things you know, for me to get exciting, because I'm not in a reaction mode, I'm actually in a creator mode. And now I can say, oh, who do I want to be in this conversation? Who do I want my company to be in this conversation? Like, what are we going to do? What are we going to stand for? How are we going to help?   And we have so far to go, you know, our anti-racism working group is now and just finished it's eight months of working together, which, you know, in a 400, and then a 400 year history of what we're trying to change. It's, it's like, nothing, it's a blink. So we're very, very early, but we're developing some skill around it. And, and my goal, you know, you know, I want to change how people experience work at Verb on the day to day, and I want us to just build this practice of looking, looking, talking, asking ourselves, are we operating in a way that's aligned with who we want to be and then you know, it's an endless loop of, of looking and asking and changing and looking and asking and changing, I don't think that we're ever going to be done with the work. It's just a practice that we're building as a conscious company.   Carley Hauck 37:24   What I hear underneath that is that there has to be enough psychological safety and you being the leader, one of the core leaders, that is that is setting that that is modeling, hey, I'm open, I might be like, in discomfort, but I'm open to hearing what you have to say, and I'm gonna stay curious. And I want to hear, and then I'm actually gonna shift like, I'm gonna take it into consideration seriously, and I'm committed to this. And that is what I think, you know, creates that overall commitment by the company and the different experience totally for everyone. Wonderful.   Suzi Sosa 38:07   Yeah, it's, it's a, it's something that you can't create in a moment you create through lots and lots of interaction. So I have one of the leaders on my team, who was the person who pushed me the most in the conversation about race, and she really had to go into an edge, you know, just to say the things to me, like, Hey, boss, you know, that like, this does not work or what you said here, or, you know, and so she made herself vulnerable to do that. And then the way I responded to that, you know, okay, she realized, okay, I can do this. So she could do it a little more. And, you know, that's how it works, you know, at the individual level, not at the team level, and at the company level.   And one of the things that I've learned in this last year, that I found was the most effective if you want to give a steroids shot of psychological safety into your company, is to apologize. And think that real vulnerable, authentic apologies, have like such a ripple effect, right? They show what you're, what you stand for, and what you're committed to. They show as a leader that you're willing to be vulnerable and admit that you made a mistake. And we all know that an environment where people can fail is very important for innovation and transformation. And it really shows that commitment to kind of doing something differently.   And so, you know, there have been a couple of moments in the past couple of years when there was a reason I needed to apologize and I do that now openly, you know, in front of the appropriate audience, depending on what happened. And it really creates like an extra boost, like others feel like oh, okay, you know she did that, then maybe I can take a risk and say this thing or I know that I can clean up something I did that didn't go the way I planned.   Carley Hauck 40:17   Wonderful. Well, and what I hear you exercising in the apology is, you know self awareness, emotional intelligence, the growth mindset of resilience. But then also, you know, that authenticity where you're taking personal responsibility, and you're being humble. Hey, messy human here, how you doing?   Suzi Sosa 40:48 Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's really uncomfortable. It's, it's, but it's something that the more you do it, the better you get at it. And I think there's a lot of freedom in recognizing that your actions don't define you, you know, and that's, it's something again, that just takes practice to believe and to feel like, my actions don't define me. And so when you do mess up, you can go and apologize and not have that mean that you are a lesser person, or should be relegated to shame or something like that.   Carley Hauck 41:21 Yeah, and I want to just mirror back what I just saw in your body, because not everybody will, nobody can see you, but I can. I'm the lucky one, I get to see Suzi. But when you just said that my actions don't define me, your shoulders came back, your chest opened up, you've and kind of tilted your head up. Like there was sunshine beaming, you know, there is just a full expansion. And then you just kind of just shake off that shame, right? Like, I mean, that that's what's so powerful about mindfulness, right? Like, every moment is a unique moment, it will never be the same. And we can change at any moment.   So well, I could talk to you all day. One day, I'm sure we'll have that opportunity. But time that we have right now I have two juicy questions for you left. So I'm speaking on this whole topic of, you know, diversity, inclusion, equity belonging, I know that you just did a powerful panel on creating a culture of belonging yesterday at the virtual conscious capitalism. And what were some broad strokes or takeaways that you could share? I mean, creating a culture of belonging in a remote distributed hybrid workforce. Whoo!   Suzi Sosa 42:47   Yeah. I think I call that the Black Diamond level challenge. So, you know, it's one more worthy of taking on. I was actually just facilitating a conversation with my dear friend Kim Mans, who's the founder and CEO of H3Diversity, and she has a really fantastic framework of head, heart and hands for approaching DEI. Yes, and Carley shaking her hands. And, and, and yesterday, what we really went deep into was the heart. And that belonging is really much more accessible when you connect to it from a heart center, you know, even before you get to the head. So what we did is we asked all the participants to go into pairs and think about a time when they were part of an organization where they felt they belonged. And what was that like? And what did that make available to you?   And it was things like, trust and expression and freedom and comfort and safety. And then a little bit later, we said, Now think about a time when you were somewhere where you felt you didn't belong? And it could be in a foreign country or in another organization? And how did that impact what you brought, right? And in the people in their sharing, it was so real. And what I found interesting was the few of the people that shared. You know, one was a Jewish man who grew up in the military at a time when it was not common to have Jewish people in the military. And he was in a part of the US where he also didn't feel very culturally welcome.   Another woman shared about being one of the first female CFOs in her generation and that she was often coached by mentors not to bring certain aspects of her womanhood to the job as a CFO. And so what became available to everyone is that this topic of belonging is not a conversation about race. It's a conversation about our whole selves and what is it like to be able to bring If not your whole self, but Gosh, a whole heck of a lot of yourself. Right? A lot of your parts. Yes, exactly.   And, and I think one of the key takeaways was for all of us to just be, you know, a little more aware, and maybe even asking our people like, you know, do you feel that you get to bring your whole self to work and what would be needed for you to feel that you could bring more of yourself to work, because, like, in those two examples of, you know, her gender and his religion, there might be aspects of someone's being that you're not even aware that they don't feel they can bring, right.   And so I think what my big takeaways from what Kim was sharing with everyone is one to start with the heart, and to really connect to our own personal experiences of feeling when we belong, and when we don't. And then to get real curious about the people who are around you and what their experience is of belonging in your organization.   Carley Hauck 46:02   Beautiful, thank you, start with the heart, get really curious, share your own experience. And also, I think, be willing to be maybe a little bit more vulnerable, right, so that people do get to see you. And then you get to see like, can they meet you where you are, right.   Suzi Sosa 46:25   And I think there's a bit of creativity that is going to be required too, because we're all used to again, just going back to that unconscious leadership of doing things and kind of default way and maybe not even realizing that that may, those activities might undermine belonging. So for example, in my company, we used to celebrate a lot by going out drinking. And that was just a common thing, you know, you could have a great day or a great week, or close a deal, everyone goes to the bar. And in the conversation about inclusion, some of our team members shared that they always felt a bit excluded, because they, you know, had small kids at home, they couldn't go to a bar, they didn't feel comfortable at a bar they didn't like drinking. And that caused us to have to get creative and say, Okay, well, are there other ways we can celebrate that are more inclusive?   And, you know, that's a simple example. But I think there are a lot of other things that we were just doing as a kind of default mode as a company, because it's the way I've always done it.   Carley Hauck 37:28   It's the dominant culture, right? Like, like, let's get unconscious. You know? I don't, I don't drink personally, either. So that's, that's where that comes from.   Suzi Sosa 47:43   Exactly. So I think that it's gonna take for the grizzled gray leaders like me, it's gonna take some curiosity and some open heartedness to explore doing things really differently than we've always done before.   Carley Hauck 47:58   Yeah, and I, for anybody that loves drinking, and it's not a conscious or an unconscious thing that that remark was a little unskillful. So I'm just acknowledging that I hope that didn't brush anybody the wrong way.   Okay, one more quick question. And the question that I have for you is, I know that part of the waking up and verb and, you know, the leadership that you put out into the world is motivated by social impact by this passion for diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging. But I feel really curious, in this great awakening, unraveling of systems, of structures that we're in to create a workplace in a world that works for everyone, and is really in harmony with the planet, so that we have a flourishing future. What do you think is really important in the next one to two years for leaders and companies to take action on now? Big question.   Suzi Sosa 49:07   Yeah, I know that it's about expanding our view, and confronting some of these old norms. So for example, one of the questions we were all confronted with last year was whether as a company you should take a political stand for whether we should take a stand on racism and other social justice questions. And I think most companies in the past have said that we're just business, we are not going to pine on politics or social questions, but that isn't really a viable option anymore. We have to expand our view of the responsibility of business. We can't just say, oh, all we do is make money. You know, no, don't worry about us over here, because obviously the way we're making money is deeply impacting our social structures, our environment and, and more.   So I would say the headline is, business has to expand its view of itself of its responsibility. You know that, to me means, you know, every company has to serve some higher purpose than profit. Like it, profit is not a goal. John Mackey, the founder of Whole Foods, who's been an incredible mentor of mine who says, the purpose of a business is no more about making money than the purpose of a human body is to make red blood cells. You need those red blood cells to fulfill your life's purpose. Business needs money to fulfill its life's purpose. But making money can't be the purpose.   And I believe that's going to be every company, not just the social entrepreneurs or the conscious, conscious companies. And I think that business has to expand its view of its responsibility to employees, community and the planet. So a couple of years ago, years ago, a book came out called The Healing Organization, from a couple of authors in the conscious capitalism community. And they argued that it's not enough to do no harm, that businesses actually have to step up and heal the harm of the past.   And so, you know, your employees are suffering from mental health issues, right now they are. And as a business leader, it is your responsibility to help them deal with that. Your business is present in a community that has wounds of systemic racism and poverty in it. And it is your responsibility to heal those, even though you may not have been around when the wounds were first created, and so forth. So I think there's really, at the, you know, again, at the headline, it's this expanded view of what business is, is meant to do, of what business is responsible for. And I hope that will buy us a shot at keeping capitalism because I really do believe that capitalism has the potential to to support our planet in terms of prosperity, and meeting human needs, but the way it's been showing up, isn't working. And it has to evolve.   Carley Hauck 52:24   Yeah. Yeah. If we could be more altruistically motivated, like an altruistic new economy, I did a podcast episode with a colleague and friend of mine several months back, and we talked all about, you know, the new incentives for a more just economy. Wow, I love that answer. And, you know, I love that you referenced The Healing Organization, because often, and I even write about this in my book, because I also really studied systems, you know, the organizational system of a company, but also the system of a human body. I think of myself as a healer, for business and for organizations. And I'm always brought in, when there is a massive imbalance, there is a dis-ease within the company that I'm being asked to intervene and solve for and create the pathway for healing.   So and I feel like, you know, in the remote hybrid, distributed workforce that we are evolving into Learning and Leadership Development, are going to be so important for how we communicate, how we innovate, how we collaborate, how we stay engaged, and I'm just so excited to see how Verb you know, is able to be part of that new future of learning. Suzi, it's been so delightful to have you. I will leave you know, links to you in our show notes. How do people get in touch with you and stay connected?   Suzi Sosa 54:12   Yeah, I'll share with you my email address and then certainly on LinkedIn, and you can follow us at Verb, but I would be happy to connect with anyone who's listening and wants to chat. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a treat to be able to talk about these things with you.   Carley Hauck 54:29   Oh, likewise, thank you for your authenticity.   Thank you Suzi. As always, our conversations are so nourishing and love your bold humility and deep authenticity. If you have questions or want to connect with Suzi, please use the link in the show notes to reach out. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with friends, families or colleagues, we are all in this together and sharing is caring.   If you have questions, comments or topics you would like me to address on the podcast, please email me at support@carleyhauck.com. I would love to hear from you. And if you enjoy this episode, again, please write a positive review on your favorite podcast listening platform. Thank you for being part of this community. And until we meet again, for season five, be the light and shine the light.

Alternative Banking Issues. Fredrick discusses the issues surrounding trying to use non-bank financial institutions such as Cash App, NetSpend, Greendot etc... to provide baseline banking needs. He discusses why some choose to do this and provides an overview of what chex systems is and how to get a chexsystems report. Finally, Fredrick looks at the fee structures and limitations from a quantitative and qualitative standpoint and shows why attempting to use these types of financial companies as an alternative checking account isn't a good idea. #GetRealWoke #ForTheFree #SituationSaturday #RealWokeCommunity https://fredrickdscott.com Chex Systems Website: https://www.chexsystems.com . . Become a #RealWoke LiveChat Member to participate in the #Learn2Earn Cash Giveaway, gain access to discounts, contests, cash giveaways, exclusive content, and the exclusive #GetRealWoke Community Group, a private Facebook group where you can network with like-minded individuals, thought leaders, and credible, successful business owners and experts from various industries.: https://join.getrealwoke.com . . Read Fredrick's books for valuable insight into personal and professional financial growth and business development skills: https://fredrickdscott.com/shop/ . . Have a business idea that you'd like to talk through? Book Fredrick for an assessment to get his expert opinion: https://fredrickdscott.com/book-an-assessment/ . . Want an opportunity to speak to Fredrick one on one for free? Apply for an opportunity to appear on a #GetRealWoke Q&A Session: https://fredrickdscott.com/getrealwoke-qa-session-2/ . . Free financial resources personally developed by Fredrick are available https://fredrickdscott.com/forthefree-resources/ . . Check out the articles that Fredrick has written for Entrepreneur Magazine https://www.entrepreneur.com/author/fredrick-d-scott . . Fredrick's social media campaign strategy development and execution is provided by Sista Social LLC (https://sistasocial.com/) . . Disclosure & Disclaimer: https://fredrickdscott.com/disclaimer-disclosure/ The content, images, name(s) (Fredrick D. Scott, Fredrick D. Scott, FMVA, Fredrick D. Scott FMVA, Fredrick D. Scott, FMVA®, Fredrick D. Scott FMVA®, Fredrick Douglas Scott, #GetRealWoke, and #RealWoke), likeness and brand are properties/assets of Fredrick D. Scott LLC and Intellectual Property rights are asserted thereto. No individual or company is authorized to duplicate, reproduce, or otherwise use any of the properties of Fredrick D. Scott LLC without the express, written authorization of Fredrick D. Scott LLC. Fredrick D. Scott LLC retains all use and licensing rights solely and exclusively. Any unauthorized duplication, reproduction, or other use of the aforementioned properties/assets on any digital or print mediums will be addressed in accordance with applicable federal and state laws, as well, the policies and procedures established by the owners of the platform(s) where unauthorized content is found. Violations can be reported to Fredrick D. Scott LLC via email at: fredrickdscottllc@gmail.com Notice: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976 (17 U.S.C. § 101-122), allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by the copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/getrealwoke/support

Watch the video version of this show on YouTube »Alex Ross is the co-founder & CEO at Gregarious, Inc. Gregarious is the company behind Greg, an app dedicated to helping people grow healthier and happier plants. Greg's community has grown from 100 beta users in August 2020 to over 50,000 monthly active users today.Alex graduated from the University of California, Los Angeles, and studied data science and statistics at MIT. Alex has worked for companies such as Cisco, The Daily Aztec, and Cannon Trading.Prior to founding Gregarious, Alex spent 4 years as Director of Engineering at Tinder. Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year.In this episode, you'll learn: The two critical steps in making a successful app An ingenious strategy for partnering your app with retail companies Why you should involve your customers in content creation Links & Resources Tinder Enplug fitbod app Y Combinator (YC) Alex Ross' Links Greg app Alex's Twitter: @AreteRoss Job opportunities at Gregarious Alex's LinkedIn Gregarious, Inc. on LinkedIn Follow Us:David Barnard: https://twitter.com/drbarnardJacob Eiting: https://twitter.com/jeitingRevenueCat: https://twitter.com/RevenueCatSub Club: https://twitter.com/SubClubHQEpisode TranscriptAlex: 00:00:00The two steps in making a successful app business are make something worth using, and then put it in front of the people who would use it.If you have a plant, and you don't know what to do with it, we solve that problem.So, what we did is we reached out to a bunch of plant retailers, “Hey, we will help your customers have a positive outcome with your product.”Can you put in our little QR code? And now when these retailers ship out a new plant, every single one of them has this little QR code in it.It led to our first 15,000 users, I'd say. David: 00:00:30Welcome to the Sub Club podcast. I'm your host, David Bernard. And with me as always, Jacob Eiting. Hello, Jacob.Jacob: 00:00:53Happy to be here. David: 00:00:55You sound incredibly happy.Jacob: 00:00:57It's great. It's a Friday, David. The sun is shining. They're grilling a bunch of chickens in my hometown. I got nothing to complain about. It's gonna be great.David: 00:01:05Our guest today is Alex Ross, founder and CEO at Gregarious, makers of Greg, an app to help you grow healthier and happier plants. Prior to founding Gregarious Alex spent four years as director of engineering at Tinder.Alex also co-founded Enplug, a digital signage company that was acquired earlier this year. Welcome to the podcast, Alex.Alex: 00:01:27Thank you guys. Good to see you. Thanks, David, Jacob.Jacob: 00:01:29Hi. David: 00:01:30So, I'm going to try really hard this whole podcast and not call you Greg, but I've made that mistake.Jacob: 00:01:36I was thinking like, I get like annoying company name questions. Sometimes. I'm like, I'm sure you get more worse than me.Alex: 00:01:43But I'm considering just legally adopting Greg as alias or something. Jacob: 00:01:48Yeah. You know, I mean, that's a news cycle right there. A little bit of earned PR. David: 00:01:55So I wanted to ask you, so obviously, you know, director of engineering at Tinder that's, I mean, what a rocket ship that must've been quite a wild ride. So, tell me a little bit about, about how you ended up at Tinder and then, you know, if you do have any fun, war stories from there, that'd be great to hear. Alex: 00:02:16Yeah, definitely. It was a rocket ship. Definitely some war stories, some wins, some losses. So, I came across Tinder and I was looking to get into like a consumer application. so I was interviewing with Uber and Twitter, and then I came across Tinder on an angel list. Actually the head of recruiting at the time reached out to me and I kind of took it on a whim.To be honest, I had not used the app before, before even interviewing or anything. that's kind of a challenge for Tinder is like, do you, how many of the teammates need to use Tinder? Because a lot of people are married and in relationships, and those are great people to have on the team. And so it makes it odd, and kind of difficult or complicated. But, basically I joined when it was around 70 people, if I recall. So, it was a pretty small team. There was already a global user base, so it was one of the scrappiest, global brands I think probably has ever existed. Because this was all right before Tinder or right around the time that Tinder launched its first monetization efforts.And so there wasn't really awareness as to like, great, there's this like large, global, many millions of people are using this thing, but is it going to make money? Right? That was still an open question at the time that I joined. So, yeah, basically I joined and it was very, it was definitely still a startup.And, so there was not a lot of structure and I think my manager changed on the first day, like the person I was talking about working with's desk changed, but I had a great time and basically I ended up creating the growth team. So I became very focused on, growing the international user base.One of the coolest things that that team did is we decoupled Tinder from Facebook. And this was from Facebook login because like Tinder came to, came to fame by having, you know, you tap one button, it imports your Facebook photos. It basically made online dating as easy as it possibly can be because like you push a button you're in and then you're dating.Right. And by making it that simple, it made it so you felt less than desperate by using it. I think it was like one of the important psychological dynamic, because if you feel like you have to work to start using that application, then maybe it means that like you aren't having as much success in dating in the real world.So, by making it simpler, it made it less stigmatized. More cool. Right? And so when we decided to then allow people to create accounts with a phone number that introduced all this complexity around like, well, are people going to want to do that? Then they have to add profile photos. They have to type in their name.You have to introduce an onboarding process. You have to worry about spam. So, in any case, my team led that decoupling of Facebook and Tinder, and this was like pre Cambridge Analytica, pre GDPR. So it was definitely pressure. And it was like, it was a lot of good foresight and it did lead. It was a very successful project.So, that was kind of what I cut my teeth on it Tinder. And then from there, I ended up creating the trust and safety team. So we then kind of took on anti-spam, which is a major problem for any global consumer or especially a brand that you're introducing people to each other. Like you're introducing strangers to each other.That is a spammer's dream.Jacob: 00:05:32There has got to be just so much abuse on Alex: 00:05:34So much, and it was all stuff. I agree. Yeah. 24 7. and so we ended up creating a team kind of bottoms up. This is a cool effort. Cause it wasn't like an executive side, like, oh, Tinder needs to needs to create this team. But rather. A collection of engineers that were very motivated to solve this problem.So, we created a trust and safety team again, before, before GDPR, like this was before the world was really focused on, privacy and data security and protect users. Very consciously.Jacob: 00:06:01It's it's interesting. Cause now, you know, even with like clubhouse recently have had issues here. I think now the expectation is you need trust and safety from day one, which even five or six years ago, wasn't really the case. It was kind of like, well, I'll just grow and then you'll solve it later.So, that was, I would say early days for even that concept of like a whole dedicated team to those, those, those aspects of, yeah. If you're meeting people in public mind, God, like you need good Alex: 00:06:28Real. Yeah. You really need to continuously try to protect people. Cause there are, there's a rare selection of people that are not great. Right. SoJacob: 00:06:36Yeah. David: 00:06:37So then, tell us a little bit about the transition from being a tender to founding a company, because you had founded companies before and plug, and been at, other large companies before Tinder, but Yeah. What, what led you to, to found Gregarious? Alex: 00:06:54Yeah. I actually saw Jacob and I shared an experience interning at Cisco systems. Is that right? Did you, yeah, Jacob: 00:07:01Wait, when were we at the same? Like onboarding. Alex: 00:07:04No, no. I was actually in the finance organization, so I was doing internal auditing. it was crazy. I was on a team that like investigated other people for like, you know, abusing their corporate cards and stuff like that. So there'd be likeJacob: 00:07:19Interesting. internally. Alex: 00:07:21Internally. yeah. it was a very, Jacob: 00:07:23We've had interns on that team. Alex: 00:07:27It was a unique, it was definitely the only inboard,Jacob: 00:07:29Yeah. Wow. I was testing, I was testing phones, so I'm actually not sure which one of those is more boring. I think actually you might've had me. So Alex: 00:07:38That's for sure. yeah, so I got exposure is Cisco is interesting for anybody who doesn't know cause you have to drive between meetings. Right? Cause the campus is so large. Jacob: 00:07:48Campus. Alex: 00:07:49Yeah, Yeah, Talk about, oh my gosh. Culture. Yeah, so the, the process leading up to, to starting Greg was very deliberate. because I had done a startup before and that company had gone to success a successful outcome, but it was a lot of hard work was honestly grueling.Definitely like, hardest challenge of my life. And so I knew that I wanted to be involved in starting a company and building a culture from the ground up again. but I knew that I wanted to do it differently. and so basically there was a lot of preparation thinking about really the main thing I was thinking about is what is the industry that I want to be working in, because I think that startups often don't go the way you expect.But you can learn so much. And so I was really thinking like, okay, what do I want to become an expert at? Right. Like what do I want, if it doesn't work out in the way we expect, what would I like to have learned four years, five years, seven years worth of information about.And, I really kept coming back to science. and I wanted to, to kind of use my engineering experience and pivot that into, more real world, like physical phenomenon. Right. And like learning how the universe works. David: 00:08:59That's amazing. Alex: 00:09:00And so that's really, a lot of the thesis of Greg is that we apply computer science and software engineering to this specific domain of how to plants work.Right. And, and basically the, the dots kind of connect looking backwards, but it was a process of discovery of like, what's an area that's emerging and like kind of changing, like where is there an opportunity, right. Because I think it's helpful to position yourself at a place where either you can cause change or this change already happened.And, right now, like a lot of people know there's climate change. and there's also a lot of, rapid things happening in plant science world, specifically around like CRISPR and plant genetics and stuff like that, really at the deep end of it, which we can get into, but it's like way deep. but, but basically, this was before the pandemic.So we were actually looking into plants before COVID and already there was like the rate of people bringing plants into their homes was growing by 50 to a hundred percent per year. And we wanted to validate like, Jacob: 00:10:03I really like, that seems like that seems like a thing that would be fairly stable, like, is it, is it, is it a, is it a generational trend, like millennials or younger folks being? I have a lot of people on Twitter. I follow that seem very interested in plants more than I've ever been. Alex: 00:10:20There's a couple converging trends. Yeah. I think that part of it it's associated to like the mental wellness movement. So it's kind of this trend line follows a one that's very similar to like meditation and yoga just five years later. So I think it's a very, it's a lot of adjacent interests there, but then there's also an aesthetic component to plants where like, people are kind of decorating their spaces and they're getting more like trendy in how they, you know, how they, even people who are eating, like you want to have like a space that you invite someone into and it's very nurturing.Right. so yeah, there was definitely a generational kind of tailwind already happening. And then COVID just like crammed that up. Right. Cause then everybody's on zoom and you look in the background, some people have plants and you're like, oh, that looks kind of nice. Like I'd like that.Jacob: 00:11:04I have this. I have, I still have this like barren white wall back here. That is embarrassing. Yeah, I need, that's why I was excited. I, I, I installed Greg today and I was disappointed. I couldn't buy the plants in the app yet. So we'll have to talk about that as we get a little Alex: 00:11:17That's something that is coming. That is the client segment. Yeah, definitely. yeah, so we kind of saw an opportunity and we did some due diligence, some interesting things I think, to identify like, is there a revenue opportunity in my favorite stat that I like to share that blew my mind when I learned it is home Depot, is a publicly traded company.So you can look up their, you know, annual statements and you can see how are they making money. And if you look up their statements, you'll see that they make more money on indoor garden than on any other product segment. Like home Depot sells lumber, paint appliances, all these other the Jacob: 00:11:54That's like, that's like actual revenues. Is that also margin con? Cause I would imagine these are high margin items as well, I would guess. Alex: 00:12:01Yeah. Depending on where you fall on them. But yeah, they're, they're, they're pretty hard margin. and no, we only looked at revenue, but they make like last night, like $11 billion per year in revenue. Which is, and, and they're like 10 or Jacob: 00:12:15Store, right? That's, one. Yeah. And there's like, every town has four of these. Alex: 00:12:19Exactly. Yeah. And home Depot is like 10 or 15% of the plant retail market. Probably. It's hard to estimate.Jacob: 00:12:26Okay. Yeah.So, it's like roughly like a hundred, a hundred billion dollar a year kind of thing in the US. Wow. That's it. That's the size of in-app subscriptions for anybody. Who's curious, like, roughly like in that ballpark.Alex: 00:12:39Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like Apple's app store, subscription Jacob: 00:12:42Oh yeah. Sorry, app store. It's not even subscriptions. I think that's the app store broadly. Yeah.Alex: 00:12:47So we combined the plant Tam with then the app store growth in subscription revenue. And there's our business model.Jacob: 00:12:56There you go. Did you, did you, I mean, yeah. You mentioned like wanting to get into something physical into something science related. Did you have like a passion for plants or was this something that is like deep in you or, or was it more like me and an app subscriptions, which is like, wow, this looks like a good thing I can work on and I actually care about it and know a little bit about it.Right. So how, how did it, how did you go? Like, Yeah.This is what I want to do. Alex: 00:13:17That's a great question. It was like 75% the ladder. So the same as you, where I was kind of, I got exposed to it cause I started getting plants and I realized I did like them, but there was no brand to guide me. And there was definitely no science to help me keep them alive. Right. but I, I grew up in the mountains and so like, I, I, my family, I lived in Mammoth Lakes, California for any of the listeners know where that is.And so I, you know, I, I went on like a solo backpacking trip, like shortly before starting all of this and kind of communed with like being in nature with no people around me. And maybe that put me in touch with the plans a little bit more. but it was mostly, kind of identifying, this is a realm of science I'd like to work in because plants are mostly.Physics-based, this is something a lot of people don't don't realize, but because they're stationary, you can almost view them as like, like a civil engineer would a bridge. so there's not, so you can kind of really think about like the water physics, the light physics. And so they're a really great vehicle for learning, just physics generally, and also how like the sun and earth orbit matters to that plant and that location.There's so much science there that we learned that there's a depth. That was, we were very interested in diving deeper intoJacob: 00:14:31Yeah. Not to mention, not to mentioned biology, right. Alex: 00:14:33There is, but Jacob: 00:14:34As an intersection, right? Yeah. Alex: 00:14:37Yeah. Biology is difficult though, right? Like if you're like an engineer, who's trying to approach it,Jacob: 00:14:41Right. Yeah. Alex: 00:14:42it's messy, you know, I Jacob: 00:14:44Yeah, exactly. Alex: 00:14:46Yeah, yeah,Jacob: 00:14:47But if you think about it, it was a closed system, right? Like yeah. You have it. It's potted, it's planted, you know, lumens in, you know, water in, you know, nutrients in, you can, yeah, you can, you can make some approximations, right. As we like. Alex: 00:15:02The closed system is really important. I can. so what Greg does is Greg predicts when a given plant is going to need to be watered. And that's like the super simple, like simplified functionality. It's one of the main things you need to know. And the way we figured that out talking about closed systems is kind of a fun fact. you can very accurately measure the amount of water that a plant loses by weighing it on one day and then weighing it the next day. And the change in weight is the water lost in grams. And it turns out, so what we did is we did that for like 700 plants for like six months. And we, we then graft what was the grams of water lost per plant per day?And you get this beautiful pattern. It's like it random, like this is a very clear, like almost a heartbeat of a plant, which is a great fit for like machine learning.Jacob: 00:15:56Yeah. So, so, so how did, how did you pull this off? Like practically, did you have like a big garage or warehouse or something like that? That's, that's more work than I usually do for software. So tell me what that process was. Alex: 00:16:09It definitely did. So at one point I had like 150 plants and they all had a plastic, little pots and I had like labels. I named them like a one through nine and then C one through whatever. Cause I had to keep track of it. Right. It's all in our progress database. And but that didn't scale. And so like me and my co-founders, we were all measuring every day, every single day, hundreds of plants, but that didn't scale.So then we went on Craigslist and we started saying like, Hey, we're looking for people to weigh their plants every day, twice per day for a couple of months. And we had hundreds of responses, like people, people care about their plants and they thought that it was cool to be doing like citizen science.Right. And so we ended up with people in Berlin and, and you know, Sydney.Jacob: 00:16:48All right. Cause it doesn't have to be local, right? Yeah. Alex: 00:16:51And actually it needs to be in like Southern hemisphere versus Northern hemisphere because the location of like the sun and solar radiation effects that. Yeah. So we needed a global distribution for sure.David: 00:17:01This is like way off topic for, for subscription apps. But, but if you, if you squint it's, there are a lot of similar problems in understanding user patterns and user life cycle. And like, there's so many hard to understand variables. Alex: 00:17:18Yeah, David: 00:17:18But one thing I'm curious about on the plant science, like how much does like humidity and other things play into that.So if you, if you have, you know, 40% humidity, one day and 60%, the next does that actually impact things. Alex: 00:17:31No humidity. We don't really need to model humidity very much. it's actually, there's a couple of things that are misconceptions. You don't really need to worry about missing or humidity and you don't need to worry about fertilizing. Like all of that is overdone. for the most part, like there's some cases where it, matters, but, I'd say for like 99 out of 100 plant types that you're likely to own doesn't matter.And even more people don't realize that the humidity reading that we see in the weather is what's called relative humidity. And it, it not actually like super scientific way to measure, like how the water in the air relates to a plant. You need to look at absolute humidity, the whole totally different calculation.There's basically relative humidity changes according to the temperature. And so I see as humidity, you can almost, and to be honest, like, ignore, except for a couple of plants, like really evolved to be in, like, you can picture it. you know, in England, like, United Kingdom, like BHAG, right. Where it's just so much water, like, okay, well does like some, some ferns like are from like the Pacific Northwest, like Washington area where it's like constant rain forest, those types of plans.Yeah. You're going to have a hard time if you're not, in a very human environment, but the vast majority of EBI don't have to worry about it.Jacob: 00:18:47I have, I have more questions on the plant physics, but I think, I think I will let, I will, I will have to like save my curiosity.David: 00:18:55Well, we'll have to do the, we'll have to jump on your podcast and talk, talk points. Jacob: 00:19:00Plant Club, just invite V2 to newbies on there. Just to ask questions. We'll be there. David: 00:19:05So from, from all of this, you, you started to alluded to it a bit, but one of the things I was really impressed talking to you a couple of months ago, was just how I'm vicious. Your plans are with Greg. So you're, you're kicking it off with a consumer subscription app. but tell me a little bit about like, where you want to go from there.Alex: 00:19:25Yeah, definitely. That's a part of like, going back to like how we started it, why we started it. I have seen, or like I've worked at companies and like not naming names that are very, very revenue focused. Like just purely prime directive is we just need to make coin and as much of it as possible. Right.And then the question is, well, if you get there, then what do you do? Because if you do accumulate a level of avenue and a lot of influence, you kind of inherit a social responsibility, right? Because like you're accumulating all these resources. If you're like a Facebook or an Instagram, I think there's like general consensus.Like you kind of need to think about the impact that you have. Cause you're too big to not think about it. Right. And so with Greg, like we really thought about if we manage to navigate this very challenging process of getting to scale. Well then what? Right. And our goal what's really interesting that people don't realize is that plants in our homes are just plants that were taken from various places in the world and put in our homes, right?Like there there's no such thing as a houseplant, it's actually just like a giant jungle tree that somebody took a cutting from and then transported it to England and then ended up the United States. Right. so the physical principles that govern, being able to predict how to keep those plants alive is, are the same as the physical principles required to predict how to keep like crops alive.Right. like plants that are grown for our food system of which there are like billions. Right. And those plants, like it turns out plants are really like an infrastructure piece of our planet, right? Like plants are our like big support system on spaceship earth. And it's kind of interesting. Jacob: 00:21:10It's, the, it's the first stage of catalyzing, the sun's resources, right? Like, Alex: 00:21:15That's exactly it. And a lot of people don't realize this, that basically all of life gets its energy from the sun. Like that is the input of all of energy into what we know as life, as you know, maybe there's more on other planets that works differently. But as far as we know, all of life depends on solar energy.Jacob: 00:21:31Yeah, Alex, you're leaving out some very, very, sensitive, bacteria that live by vents. Okay. That, that Alex: 00:21:40I love that you noticed.Jacob: 00:21:43I'm D I'm disappointed in myself that I can't think of what they're called. They're extremophiles some kind of, I Alex: 00:21:47Yeah. Jacob: 00:21:48All, it's all, it's all discovery documentaries, so Alex: 00:21:51There's a vanishingly small number of, like living things that, thrive on geothermal energy from the earth score. Right. But that's like less than like 1% as far as I know. What people don't realize as an example is that like plants. A lot of people think that plants are just taking things out of the ground that is sucking nutrients out, sucking water out. They're actually also putting things back into the ground at all times. And so plants, like, for example, they photosynthesize. So they take energy from the sun and they are the only thing on the planet that takes energy from the sun and then converts it into energy that all other life can use. And it's not only insects and birds and mammals like us, but plants are also depositing sugar into the soil.So it's a bi-directional flow and that sugar feeds the bacteria. Jacob: 00:22:38Is that an active process while they're alive? Is it, or is it during decomposition? Alex: 00:22:42No, that is an active process. Like plants are actively depositing sugar into the soil and that, that those sugars feed the bacteria and fungi and those bacteria and fungi are responsible for breaking down the, inorganic, nutrients like nitrogen into a format that plants can absorb because plants can't just like stop nitrogen.Now they depend on. Those organic, you know, facilitators. And so it's a very symbiotic relationship and there's growing awareness now that like having a quote unquote, living soil is crucial for our planet. And I'll tell you like an example of how, how much awareness there is around this. during my due diligence for Greg, I went to a plant genetics conference.This is like for any engineers in the call, like imagine like AWS reinvent, accepted the geneticists. Right. And so they're like presenting, like how they run their projects. And it's, it's a really cool parallel world, but half of this conference was dedicated to soil like microbiomes, because that's how important it is.It's like truly like a resource. It's an infrastructure for our spaceship earth. Right? David: 00:23:49That's amazing. So, so one of the things, yeah, you and I talked about was not just, you know, consumer subscription to then like funding science, which is kind of what you're talking about now, but then also the potential to take this from, from B2C to B2B. So like you have, nurturing these who have to manage the planets before the people buy ‘em.You have office buildings that have thousands of plants. You have, you know, commercial facilities like there's, you know, plants existed on so many different layers of are of, of, of use, So tell me a little bit about kind of the long and short term plans of potentially transitioning or not transitioning, but, but kind of building on top of what you've done for consumers to then expand into more B2B, use cases.Alex: 00:24:42Yeah, definitely. Some other examples. people don't realize that cities have to like municipalities have to maintain the plant inventories, right? Like there are people who manage the inventory of plants. Exists, you know, or there are small businesses. there are people in most towns, I grow food for their farmer's markets, for example.And so those are like smaller scale farmers and then there's large scale farmers, right? And there's a real dearth of like talented software teams, writing applications for any of those parties. And that's really the long-term opportunity to be spotted. If we can pull together a talented team to make products for those people, that's a longterm opportunity.And my, my thesis on this, which I think we're aligned on is that, like delightful, simple consumer user interfaces, like simple software is appreciated by everybody. Right? Jacob: 00:25:35Okay. Alex: 00:25:35like enterprises don't want to use complicated integrative Jacob: 00:25:40There's tastes now in software, right. And all levels of, employment. I think it's, it's a bit of like our gen my generation aging into the, the enterprise buying world. And, also just like people have enough software experiences in our lives. They've learned to discern like, oh, this is good.And, oh, this is bad. and I think there's, yeah, I think it's really, I mean, we I've, I've done it a ton in making revenue count. I came from the compute super subscription world. I learned a ton of lessons about onboarding and, and, and, and creating delightful experiences and like, you know, playing, playing against and into people's like, you know, habits and things like this that you carry into the enterprise world or B2B world, and it can really supercharge software.And it's probably what we're going to see. Yeah. I think. I think there's still, there's always this like technical leap or not technical in the sense of computers, but technical in the sense of processes and whatnot, when you leap from consumer to, to selling to businesses. But as you said, you bring those teams together, you, you build your data set, you learn more about Alex: 00:26:45Right, Jacob: 00:26:46Act of growing plants, then someday you, you, you can, you Alex: 00:26:49Right. And there are some, some famous examples of this. I definitely see it with RevenueCat. Cause like you compare the UI to a SAS that was created 10 years ago and it's just more of delightful. Right. It's like simple. And I know to use it. I'm not like getting a headache while I'm on it, but it's nice.Right?Jacob: 00:27:05It's very nice. Very nice of you to say Alex: 00:27:07Yeah. Bye-bye But, but like some examples like strike became famous, right? Because like they had a good Jacob: 00:27:14Same. Yeah, yeah. Say my mindset. Right. Just like, make it easy, make it simple, make the, make the shortest possible path to value. Right. Alex: 00:27:25Or, slack would be another example. Right. Whereas it was almost a consumer level application that just took off like wildfire because individuals liked it. Right. Jacob: 00:27:34And then they added enterprise grid, whatever they have now, or whatever to sell it to, to, to Alex: 00:27:39And then nothing is things, Jacob: 00:27:41Need that to begin with.Alex: 00:27:42Right? David: 00:27:43Yeah. So it's just, it's really cool that there's, there's just such a direct path from selling to consumers right now, and then selling to municipalities who are managing their plants in a few years, and then selling to, you know, the, the company should have to manage this at scale and then selling to farmers.That's really cool. One of the things that, again, that you're not talking about, you and I talked for like two hours a couple of months ago. And so there's, there's so much that I would, I would've loved to have recorded that and released it as a podcast. But, Jacob: 00:28:20Glad I can glad I can contribute. David: 00:28:23Yeah, one of the, one of the fascinating things that you talked about was kind of your view on marketing. And so I'd love for you to talk about that more broadly, but then specifically what you're doing with nurseries is just such incredibly smart marketing. Like, I mean, it, let me say tangent for a minute.So it's just so obvious talking to you that you're not the average like app founder, you know, like none of my apps have had even, even like when, when hundredth of the due diligence and market Jacob: 00:28:55Why I was gonna say, I've never, I've never bought some, like, I've never had a physical warehouse of plantsDavid: 00:29:02Yeah. and so it's just, it's just so clear that you, you think about things in a way that, that most, you know, at people don't most software people don't most even founders don't. and, and so I think, you know, we've talked about this on the podcast before, is it just so many apps are trapped in this?You know, we just, we have to advertise on Facebook to grow. We have to do this. And like that clay book, I've just, you know, dumping money, a bunch of money in ads, I think leave so much on the table. And so I just love that you're, you're going to do that. And that we've talked about that, you know, you've got to do paid marketing and, and maybe I've already started experimenting with it, but, but yeah.So tell me about what you're doing with nurseries and then just kind of, you know, some of your thoughts on, on marketing and virality and stuff. Alex: 00:29:51Yeah, definitely. I think broadly, like what I would, I think I'm definitely aligned with that where, your broader point is that like building an app is half technical and UI design and getting the product really, really, really right. Right. But the other half that people are often uncomfortable about is needing to get it in front of the right people.Right. And so in my mind, the way I break this down is the two steps. Like I have a theory that like the two steps in making a successful app business are make thumping worth using, and then put it in front of the people who would use it. Right. And it's like remarkably hard to do either one of those, but, Once we had, the beginning signs of retention.So we got our first, like, I don't know, 5,000 users by like posting on Facebook and on Reddit and like that kind of stuff. Then we started thinking about, what is like the most optimal time for people to be introduced to grade. And what we came up with is, well, we solved the problem of, if you have a plant and you don't know what to do with it, how to keep it alive, we solve that problem.And so the most natural moment would be when you get a new plant, right. Because it's like, that's a moment. And you're like, oh crap, I have this thing. What do I, how do I keep it alive? And, so what we did is we reached out to a bunch of, plant retailers, like online in-person brick and mortar all over the place.And we basically said like, Hey, we will help your customers have a positive outcome with your product. Right. And so let's do this trade where like, we will give them. at this point we had a subscription tier. And so we said, we'll give them free subscription tier for N number of months. At first it was six.And now it's three. and in return, can you put in our little QR code flyer, like nicely designed four inches by four inches recycled paper card that has a QR code and it takes you to download. Great. Right. And so we did that and now like when these retailers ship out a new plant, every single one of them has this little QR code in it.And it's almost like a digital companion to your unboxing experience. Right. And so that was definitely like a very natural fit and it, it led to our first, probably like 10 or 20,000, 15,000 users, I'd say.Jacob: 00:32:10So can I ask, like, did you do that yourself? Did you have somebody on your team? Cause like, yeah. I'm, I'm in the camp that that's outside of my experience. I don't like calling the pizza person. Like I, you know, I, I don't know how to do that. So how, how did you, how did you delegate that and, and Alex: 00:32:24Yeah. Jacob: 00:32:24The resources and a small team to pull that off. Alex: 00:32:27Definitely. so I I'd say I provided the, the oomph behind it. but then I have a good friend, who I've worked with in the past named Colin, who does like growth marketing stuff and that's his comfort zone. Right. And so I definitely did reach out to a bunch of the biggest partners in the beginning.Because the thing is that like with early stage stuff, founder led sales can be great, right? Like you don't always need it. It's better if you don't need it to be Frank. but, we were so early and we had no partners at all that I was like, I ha this is crucial for us. Like, we need to have a better source of user acquisition.That's like our next major challenge to solve. And so I did reach out to them and then call in kind of like took over and scaled that. Right. Cause like, I, I ultimately like I needed to be writing code and stuff. and so now he owns that relationship and he's been able to keep that going further.Jacob: 00:33:22Yeah, it's just one of these unique channels. you know, I don't know, you can, as a, B to C app founder, I think David's points exactly on, I think we've a lot of us have settled into this world where there's one or two channels to like get growth and that's paid, paid marketing.There's a lot of good, growth resources out there. oh yeah, there's a lot of good growth books. I've read, moving into the B2B world that say there's like seven channels or whatever. There's only like so many like ways to get and in and in, and in B to C we tend to be like, well, yeah, there's these two, essentially, but it's not really true.Like you can try seven, I guess the trick is finding stuff that two things, one is approachable. Like, that's why I asked about you. How did you make it happen? Well, you were able to start it off and then you had somebody to work with you to, to, to bring it to scale. But then the other thing is it has to move the needle. Right. And so, and so you have to figure out and like for a price that's reasonable, right? And, and that sometimes is hard to find as well. Because I think with this, you have this adjacent high velocity market of users. You have a place, your users are going every day, which isn't maybe always the case for all apps.Right. It's hard to find there's no meditation store that people are going to day. Right. Alex: 00:34:33Yeah. I thought about this. Jacob: 00:34:34That's your, that's your advantage? You know?Alex: 00:34:37I thought about parallels. Like I wonder if like fitness apps have tried partnering with gyms. I'm thinking like fit. Jacob: 00:34:44I'm sure the gyms wouldn't be as eager maybe. Right? Alex: 00:34:48Well, I mean, possibly I'm just thinking like, if, if like, Jacob: 00:34:51This also like there's also this like benefit right from the, for the Alex: 00:34:54There has to be. Yeah, yeah. But I would just, I just like theory, graph, like I'm thinking if there's an app That helps you track your workouts. Like I use football, I'm a user, it's a great app and, and it's a complete compliment or a gym. Like I can't do gym without, I can't do football about gym. I don't really do gym about that.So, I, there might be a thing there, or like with meditation, I'd be curious if, like yoga studios. Cause here's the thing is Jacob: 00:35:21Find the adjacencies right. Alex: 00:35:22Yeah. And so here's the thing about a mobile app business that I have found is that one of our strengths is that we're building an audience, right? Like mobile apps only really work with retention.And so you're like building up this audience of people that are committed to your app and your brand over time. And these smaller businesses are looking for ways to get audiences. Right? And so in the scale of a mobile app is such that you might actually be able to accumulate an audience that is valuable to those small businesses.That can be a part of that trade. And so we've actually talked about that with our partners where we basically say like, well, you're referring users to us. We can refer users back to you. And our scale is large enough that it could actually be a meaningful number. so I think you can kind of get, it's definitely a B2B strategy where it's like, I'm thinking of the strategic value I can provide to my partners in return for them providing value.Which might be why it's less common in the, in the B2C, like mobile app world, right.David: 00:36:16Yeah. Any other, experiments that you've done or kind of things that you're working on in the, in the marketing realm that you've seen fail or things that are being successful right now Alex: 00:36:27We really want to tap peer to peer referrals and that has not been easy. And so that, that is one Jacob: 00:36:33Have you seen, have you seen the new store kit to stuff? Alex: 00:36:36Not Jacob: 00:36:36Yeah, they did. This is, I don't know when this is going to go out, but they, they dropped in, in, in the dub DC, this, this, this week they announced there's a new API. That's going to make that kind of possible. Now you'll be able to, you'll be able to like extend somebody else's subscription, based on some sort of like action. I think I, I, I don't know if they made it as like, for extending, for like a customer support use case. So there might be a case maybe Apple's like, no, we didn't want you to use it for incentivized referrals, but it could Alex: 00:37:09Yeah, Jacob: 00:37:09Make incentivize referrals work and like a really smooth way. Sorry, I'll derail. But, Alex: 00:37:14I love it. Jacob: 00:37:15It's, kind of a change.Alex: 00:37:17Well, it's probably useful to listeners. we have definitely hacked around incentivizes invites using promotionals that will say RevenueCat has been helpful.Jacob: 00:37:26Oh, so, and so you guys are, you guys are pushing folks, but they have to go through like this, like a user-driven process, right? Alex: 00:37:33They do. Yeah.Jacob: 00:37:34Is friction.Alex: 00:37:35It's friction. It has been fine, but it's not quite as productive as we like. So that one. Jacob: 00:37:39Have a lot of users that get confused about the process. I would imagine. Alex: 00:37:42Yeah. And it's like a deep Linky thing. So it's like not super transparent. the thing that's worked better, the one that I'm most excited about is I love this one. we, created, user generated content loops. so, basically people, there are certain things you can do in our app that like publish web pages on the web.And so for us very specifically, People like Greg, we don't have a database of like every plant in the world yet. Right. There's like 400,000. It's really complicated. And like, that's actually, one of our core IP is, is developing that database. And the only way we can do it is if we allow users to contribute to it.Right. and we need to be like a crowd source, like model and we get really good at curation so people can create new species in Gregg. And then we curate that and then we publish that page on the web and then it starts showing up in Google search traffic for other people searching for information about that species.Right. And so I love the theory of this and like check back in, in a year to see how it turns out. But I love the thing. Because it's like, okay, a user publishes a web page, which then more users find our app through. So then they join the app and then they publish more webpages. And then so more users find the app and then they publish more web pages.Right. And so it's like a very like positive reinforcement loop. And I think those types of recursive positive reinforcing user growth loops can lead to very healthy, growth curves, right?Jacob: 00:39:08Yeah. I mean, that's the, the challenge of these apps. You said it with retention is the big thing. I think you, you you're you're you're you've got some tables. Keeping a plant alive plants live a long time. Therefore, hopefully your app gets used a long time, but then, finding these things that can take what is inherently like a decaying process, which is people leaving your app and turning it into something more stable, which is how you build this, like yeah.Long-term business. And then, you know, for, in your case, like use this as a platform to move into other segments and whatnot. but, but but moving away, from this, like get them in, monetize them, let them go. Right. Model, which like, it seems just like the whole world is pointing us against right. With, with the way that ad tracking is getting less easy to do and all this stuff.Alex: 00:39:54Yeah. Jacob: 00:39:54So I was gonna say SEO, that's one of the seven good channels. Right. So you've hit at least three, Alex: 00:40:01Do end up dependent on, on Google. AndJacob: 00:40:05It's something can change in Alex: 00:40:06Yeah, Jacob: 00:40:07Or. Alex: 00:40:07But like I've been wanting, I've been watching SEO for a while and I think that generally, as long as you're not doing shady things, you don't have to worry about much. Right, Jacob: 00:40:16Content that people click on and find useful it will work. Right? Like, but when I did our blogs for revenue cat, initially the ones that got really good traffic for us kind of got us off the ground. Like I didn't, I didn't think, like I thought a little bit like, oh, what are people going to Google?Whatever. But no, I was just like, I'll just make plus that people will read and spend time on and share. And like that's all it took. And you'll find the posts that some of the posts that I did that were intentionally like, I'm trying to be like, SEO smart. Didn't do that. Well, the ones where they were just really good posts and like contained a lot of really good content and get referenced a lot. Those are the ones that still generate traffic for us. So like, which is nice because you don't have to be like an SEO master anymore. You can kind of just make good stuff and do Alex: 00:40:56Yeah. Jacob: 00:40:56Things. Yeah, David: 00:40:57Yeah, I was going to ask, I think we talked about this, but have you, have you done some paid marketing and how's that gone for you? Alex: 00:41:05Yeah, definitely. We did use paid marketing to like, scale up, by like a two X factor. So did that add a little bit of extra? And, so we've been running on Instagram and Facebook, and it's been pretty productive to the point where it's almost NetSpend zero. it's like we spend a dollar in advertising and then we make a dollar in revenue.We're still very early. And so we haven't had enough months. Like the, the, the pain point is if you do a trial. It's actually a much longer, payback period or like what finance people would call a float. And then a lot of people expect, because let's say you have, we're generous. We have a 30 day trial, which is like a bit much for a mobile app, but we do it.And so 30 days, and then the user subscribes, and then you get paid and then apple will pay you a month later. Right. So you actually end up with like up to a 90 day float. and so that's not as tight as I would like hope for, but it's better than nothing. And I think that's the key is that like, because we're a revenue generating app we're able to do the ad spend in like a reasonable way.I think if that weren't the case, then it'd be very difficult.David: 00:42:12Yeah. And, and at some point, I mean, with, with your other strategies of referrals, of SEO, of building a base of users, that then you can get more and more partners, you know? So, so if you went to home Depot, 10 million active users, then that's a much more attractive proposition to them. so at some point, you know, spending at a loss might actually make sense, but it's amazing that the subscription, model enables you to even spend break even, but keep that flywheel going, which is it's.That's incredible.Alex: 00:42:52And I think the NetSpend break, even that creates an interesting exercise because then it's like, it becomes, we didn't get into like financing, but like if you fundraise That's then a good reason to fundraise because then if you have more capital, you can put that capital to work. Because if you know, you'll make, if you have a dollar, now you'll have a dollar again in 90 days, as long as you can carry that float.Well, then at the end of 90 days you have a dollar and a user Jacob: 00:43:17Yeah, which is like, has, has value, right? Like you've increased the value of your user base has adult, you know, dollar per user active value essentially in the venture market or revalue reevaluate. Right. So, it, it does make sense. So yeah, I w I want to ask, like, You guys, it seems like your apps pretty developed for how long you've been working on it a year and change.Right. and you mentioned, you mentioned this, like finding iterating to like a retention goal. Like how did that go? Did you start with just like the basic function, like the most basic thing and then add stuff until you got, and what, what I guess specifically, like what metric were you looking at to say like, okay, retention is good now. Alex: 00:43:58Hmm. Yeah, that's a great question. So we did start with the most basic core functionality, and I think one of the things that we did that I would do again, We just solved our own problem. So like I, so we, we started at the beginning of COVID, so like New York where I live, locked down basically the day, almost the day that I left Tinder.Right. And so and so I remember I'll never forget things were shutting down. So I ran to the nursery nearby plant nursery, and I bought like 30 plants. Cause I was like, I need to have the problem in order to be deeply motivated to solve it. Right. Cause like, if you actually have like over 10 plants, keeping track of them kind of socks a little bit, it's hard.And so I knew that I needed the problem and that motivated us and, and our whole team really, we basically just wrote like a prototype app to solve our own problem. and once it was working for us is when we started bringing like beta users in, we did like a test flight, version for a month brought in like maybe a thousand or I think it was 2000 beta users total and there in like August, 2020.And. Jacob: 00:44:59Did you, how did you get that list for the beta? Just Facebook and Alex: 00:45:04Facebook. It was, it was mostly Facebook like groups and stuff like that. Jacob: 00:45:07Mm. Alex: 00:45:08Yeah. and it posted on Reddit. Reddit is hard. but, we did a little bit Jacob: 00:45:15Rip off middlemen made easy. That's my favorite. We posted, I posted right. It was where we launched two and I have this, this favorite hater quote that I have like screenshot it on my desktop that I will hold on to until we IPO. Alex: 00:45:27The hater codes or something people should be prepared for, I think,Jacob: 00:45:30Yeah. Alex: 00:45:32But let's see. So we solved that. Here's the key is that we specifically, for our app, we wanted to solve the retention piece first. And so he chose the behavior in the app that would be associated with retention because the way that I personally think about retention is that right.What happens is you have a trigger. So a person needs an external trigger to think about opening your app. Right? So it could be a feeling that they have like Tinder, it's a feeling I'm bored or I'm lonely. And I want to see people, and that's an external trigger that causes a person to think about your app.Then you need value to them to actually open your app. Right? Like, okay, I have this trigger in this app can adjust that trip. Sure. So for us, we didn't have like an emotion, but we did have, the need for reminders. And so basically we, leveraged push indicator very heavily. Our whole app is like a water reminder app right now that's the core value.And so we built that specific functionality, water reminders before anything else, because we wanted to validate, is that a sticky behavior? Is that something that people will actually want to do and use over like six months? Right. And because we knew we wanted to get six months of data, we had to build it first.Right. Because you have to really think about how long it's going to take to get that validation. and we were bootstrapped. And so we knew that like, well, we can't bootstrap for forever. Right. And so we needed to front load the questions that we knew investors would be asking when we went out to fundraise.David: 00:46:57So speaking of which you just raised $5.4 million seed round, how, tell us about the process. It sounds like you were, you know, having been at Tinder and been in Silicon valley and in the industry, that was your goal that you didn't come into it thinking you were going to bootstrap this forever. and you were specifically kind of building up some of those retention numbers and other things that you knew investors would ask for.So, how did fundraising go having kind of iterated into that direction? Alex: 00:47:35It's definitely hard as hell. I don't know, like you don't ever say that it's not. but it wasn't, it wasn't like excruciating. I think recruiting is actually probably a little bit more difficult, especially right now. There's a lot of, a lot of movement in the, in the why people are working, how they wantJacob: 00:47:51It's easier. It's easier. to write a check than it is to take a job. I think, you know, like to give it to somebody to do, do Alex: 00:47:57You can write multiple checks. Right?Jacob: 00:47:58Yeah. It's not your, it's not your every day, you Alex: 00:48:02Exactly. Yeah. So, let's see. We actually, to go back to your first point, we weren't, completely, we hadn't decided that we were definitely going to raise VC capital. and so there was like, like we did work through that as a team and we ended up deciding, various specifically. Our mission is one that we believe would benefit from us being good at raising capital, because we think that if we can bring capital and talent to this industry and this problem domain, that's a good thing.And then even from a life perspective, like we wanted, we want to move quick, we want to be able to grow. You want to be able to like, build delightful things for lots of people. and so that was, that was the main motivation behind the VC capital. I think it's a big trade-off. so we, we definitely did not take it lightly and we did deeply evaluate Jacob: 00:48:49Closes, off a lot of paths, Alex: 00:48:51It does. Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:52You kind of really narrows what your future, I mean, Alex: 00:48:55Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:55You on a trajectory to something potentially much, much bigger, but it Alex: 00:48:58Yeah, Jacob: 00:48:59Of like brings down your, your options. Alex: 00:49:02It does. Yeah. And I think you just have to think about like, am I okay with needing to focus on eventually providing an exit to these people who trusted with their capital, right. Yeah. And I think maybe something that people don't think about is like the CEO, whoever is fundraising. Like you, you build a relationship with your, your, your VC partners, right?Like I consider them like life journey partners at this point. And so it's not that like, it's certainly not an adversarial relationship. It's more like I have a true responsibility to these people because we had a clear, like, this is the agreement is like capital and then they have obligation to their investors too.And so, you know, I'm aligned with that and I think you're right. You just have to think about like, is that, is that aligned with my vision for this, this journey, right. David: 00:49:45And then speaking of, of an exit, you shared with me, you have a very unique approach to employee equity. I'm actually curious to hear at, Jacob's take on this, having gone through the whole thing, himself, but Yeah. Tell us about your equity structure. Alex: 00:50:05Yeah. We, we definitely are, experimenting and trying something different and I think there's pros and cons.Jacob: 00:50:12Investors love that, by the way. I'm sure those were easy conversations. Alex: 00:50:17Surprisingly most investors were, were okay with it. I definitely had a couple that were concerned about, the implications in the medium term, but here I'll get to what it is. So, yeah. Okay. So basically, like we, wanted to distribute as much of the financial ownership of the company across as many of the early teammates as we could.And the reason for that is like the real thought that I had that whether or not other people think about this kind of thing, I would, I would encourage people to ask the best, which is, if I have an exit, how big of an exit would I really want to feel very fortunate about. Right. And like, really think about like how much money do I actually need.Right. Because I think that there's a lot of people who get caught up with like, I want a billion dollars, right. Or like, I want like a hundred million dollars. I've been fortunate enough. Like we pointed out earlier, my first company was acquired for like a fine amount and then Tinder totally exploded. I didn't own as much of it, but it is still a positive outcome.And I can say that like they didn't change anything. And I know it's a very cliche thing to say, but I think it's a productive exercise that if anybody was founding a company, I would recommend asking, at what point am I again, feeling fortunate about the outcome, right? And then what we really thought about is our ability to recruit a great team.And basically the decision that we made is that, there's really two aspects to equity. and I'd be curious again, Jacob's take on this there's there's compensation for risk. So early teammates take more risks, quote unquote. Right? And so that, that's a typical, like reason for, founders taking a large, large Jacob: 00:51:52Costs risk mostly. Right. But Alex: 00:51:54Opportunity cost and risk.And then the other dimension that I think about is. Where, early stage companies are hard for everybody who's involved. And my prior experience pointed towards like the first 20 people who joined the company, or at least definitely 10 or 15, all worked, pretty much as hard. And definitely at least not like 10, it's impossible to work 10 times harder. Right. And so, Jacob: 00:52:19And with less M with less glory, to be honest, Alex: 00:52:22With less boring. Yeah, Jacob: 00:52:23Don't, they don't get all the likes on follows on Twitter or whatever. Right. Alex: 00:52:27Exactly.Jacob: 00:52:28Try to distribute it, but yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a grindy place to be for sure. Alex: 00:52:33Not getting the glory is like a, it's definitely a double edged sword because I think that that glory is also a responsibility. Right. But, yeah. And so basically we decided to try this approach where we wanted to do this exercise of distributing that equity as equally as possible. And so he set up a mathematical curve where whenever I make an offer, I just look at this math equation.What is the amount of equity that this next person gets. Right. and, and so, and we did that and basically projected out like, okay, each person gets to like, like if we reached a billion dollar company, each teammate should have an outcome of something like $10 million or more, right. Like something, something above that number.And it was really important to map that out because otherwise it can go forward. And, yeah, basically that, that was our exercise. I mean, basically they decided like, okay, can we, can we turn that around a little bit? And, the side effect that I like, so again, we're, we're early in this, like, we're, we're an eight person team we're in a 15 and it may turn out to be complicated.And again, we check in in a year, but what I like about it is it, did enable a completely transparent cap table. Right. And that's nice. Cause like, I don't think it's like maybe required, but I do like being able to show people like this is who owns this Jacob: 00:53:50Who owns with you? Right? Alex: 00:53:53Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so that's a positive side effect.But there's definitely it's complicated.Jacob: 00:54:00Yeah, I well, so David, my take is actually we do something very similar that's I like also like, so interestingly and, and inside, inside baseball, I think, it it's it's we, we did, something similar. No, we weren't as scientific with it for the first, like we had like a rough rule, but it was like the same, like X, each number, like the number like decreased, like, but this backoff curve, I've found it a very, it's a very hard problem to reason about, because you want, you want to think about this, you want the hundredth employee to have some skin in the game.Right. But you, you need to balance that with like, Hey, like come join this company that you've never heard of. And like probably has like worst benefits and you know, who knows it's going to be, it's going to be a mess. Right. And so like, finding that balance is really hard. and, and, you know, Looking at where we're at 30 people now, and the complexity definitely grows. And then I think also you start thinking about like recruiting leverage and like, what, you know, what, how much equity do I need to offer to be able to like, recruit these different types of roles and things like that. And your systems get more complex, but, but, but it's still, did you guys, did you do something special on special on founder equity to create like more, more room on the cap table?Or did you ha how many co-founders do you have?Alex: 00:55:11That's such a blurry line. I don't know if this is just me by name or no, like, well, is that the fourth person? Like, I mean,Jacob: 00:55:18I guess that's true. yeah. Alex: 00:55:20Yeah. Jacob: 00:55:21A, maybe that's a, it's a YC thing is where they're like very clear, like who are the co-founders and who are not But, but yeah, I, I agree. It's probably mostly a, a label.Alex: 00:55:32I feel like we have six co-founders. realistically there were, there were two of us that were like, thinking about this, you know, like that's not true. There were three of us that were thinking about this, like two years ago. so we, I, I called them co-founders and so we're all on this same plans.Like we have this graph where like, I am the first black. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, It's Jacob: 00:55:51Interesting. Alex: 00:55:53Like as much as possible. And so the hardest, this plan is definitely hardest on the first three people and it requires incredible cultural buy-in to that because it means that the outcome, like, I, I definitely worked on this for a lot longer than like the people who are joining today.Right. And like, it was stressful and hard, but here's, here's my, my, my personal take. And, is that I actually think the risk of doing startups and I feel like YC, you may agree with us. The risk of doing startups is like so much lower than most people realize for people who have the fortune of having a safety net.Right? Like if you're, if you, if you have a family and you don't have savings, then like, of course that is a, that is a risky proposition. for people who are relatively early or mid stage in their careers and they have savings and they're not actually gonna end up in a really dangerous spot, then I think that startups are almost always a net positive.If you really apply yourself, because the amount that you learn and grow by solving that many problems, only accelerates your career. Right. And so going back to the risk versus there's also opportunity costs, and then there's effort. I personally discount the risk for people who are fortunate enough to have that safe space.I discount that risk almost to zero, because I think that it's just such a, even this time around for me, my second startup, I have learned so much and it's been such a good life experience that even if it didn't work out tomorrow, net win. For sure. Sure.Jacob: 00:57:17Yeah. David: 00:57:18So part of the reason I brought it up was that I, when I joined and I've told Dick at this, when I joined revenue, this is way inside baseball. Goodness a open, an open enough on the podcast. But when I joined Romney, I thought more along the lines of you, Alex. Like I thought, well, why is Jacob getting so much more of the company and, and revenue Katz, like the first 10 employees and then the next 20 it's actually, it's very generous compared to the industry, like take a, did an incredible job and has been great with equity.So, but, but early on you, you're at a startup and you're like, wow, I'm working really hard. He's working really hard. Like why, why, why is the outcome going to be so different? But honestly, 18 months in and Jacob having raised a series B and like taking a lot of the hardship, like you as a founder are going to have to do things and be under amount of stress.And like, there, there really is. And I, I don't, it's probably somewhat true for maybe those, you know, those first early employees, how carry a little bit of that load, but the F but a founder just has to carry a different load. And so. Jacob: 00:58:29It's always going to fall on that first two, you know, whatever people on the cap table. Right. Whatever it's going to keep rolling until it hits you at some point. And, you know, as it gets bigger. yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I don't know. It's an, it's an interesting, this could very easily devolve into like the nature of capitalism and ownership.Right. Because it doesn't, it plays very much against this, like, you know, constant, like Marxists debate about like labor versus capital and like, what are the value and what is like value and like, cause you know, you like, you had this whatever period it was one month, one year or whatever. That's like such, you know, if you

Ask anyone who the core audience is for digital banks, the answer will be “millennials,” “young people,” or some variation on that theme – basically “the kids!”  A study by MetaBank reveal that conventional wisdom is only partially right. The digital banking audience includes several groups of people, and there are opportunities for both traditional banks and the new generation of challenger banks.  In the latest episode of the IPA Payments Pod, we talk about the findings of the study with Whitney Woyke, senior vice president of partner engagement with MetaBank. We cover the main findings of the study, what they mean for banks looking for customers, and how the pandemic has shaped customer behavior.  Listeners can find the full study here: The Digital Migration: Growing Share of Banking ebook2 - Meta Payments  Whitney also moderated a panel about the future of banking as a service at the IPA’s virtual Innovative Payments conference on April 12. Whitney also moderated a panel about the future of Banking as a service at the IPA’s virtual Innovative Payments conference on April 12. The panel included Alex Kostecki, co-founder and COO of Clair, Kelly Knutson, president of Netspend, Patrick Williams, vice president of emerging payment solutions and debit processing sales for Visa, and Jenny Johnston, head of bank partnerships for Modern Treasury. If you would like to purchase access to the full recording of the session, contact us at info@ipa.org. 

Miguel Armaza sits down with Dan Henry, CEO of Green Dot (NYSE: GDOT), a 20-year-old company focused on making modern banking and money movement accessible for everyone. Green Dot also recently launched Go2Bank a digital bank for Americans living paycheck to paycheck. Green Dot is far from being Dan’s first rodeo. In fact, this is the third publicly listed company he’s led in the last three decades. He previously served as CEO of Netspend, a leading provider of prepaid debit cards, and led the company through its IPO and eventual sale to TSYS Corporation. Prior to Netspend, he co-founded Euronet Worldwide (NASDAQ: EEFT), a leader in secure electronic financial transaction processing, where he served as President and COO from 1994 through 2006. We talked about: - Dan’s entrepreneurial and international fintech journey since the early 90s - What motivates him and why entrepreneurs are his favorite type of folks - Two fundamental things he believes make a business successful - The evolution of fintech - Why he came out of retirement to lead GreenDot - What led him to launch Go2Bank in January 2021 and a bit about their Go2Market strategy - Reflections for aspiring founders - And a whole lot more! Dan Henry Dan Henry joined Green Dot as CEO in early 2020 with a vision to maximize the potential of the 20-year-old digital bank and make modern, affordable banking and payments accessible to everyone. He previously served as CEO of Netspend, a leading provider of prepaid debit cards for personal and commercial use, from 2008 to 2014. In 2010, Mr. Henry led Netspend through its initial public offering, and in July 2013 completed an all-cash sale of the company to TSYS Corporation, valued at $1.4 billion USD. Prior to Netspend, Mr. Henry co-founded Euronet Worldwide (NASDAQ: EEFT), a leader in secure electronic financial transaction processing, where he served as President and Chief Operations Officer from 1994 through 2006, and remained on the company’s Board until 2008. Mr. Henry has been Chairman of Paysign Inc (NASDAQ: PAYS), a vertically integrated provider of innovative prepaid card programs, digital banking and processing services for corporate, consumer and government application, since 2018. He also served as a director of The Brink’s Company (NYSE:BCO) from 2017 through early 2020. About Green Dot Green Dot (NYSE: GDOT) is a financial technology and registered bank holding company focused on making modern banking and money movement accessible for all. Our proprietary technology enables faster, more efficient electronic payments and money management, powering intuitive and seamless ways for people to spend, send, control and save their money. Through our retail and direct bank, we offer a suite of financial products to consumers and businesses including debit, prepaid, checking, credit and payroll cards, as well as robust money processing services, tax refunds, cash deposits and disbursements. GO2bank is FDIC-insured, so your money is protected up to the maximum allowable limit. And GO2bank is a brand of Green Dot Corporation, founded in 1999 and headquartered in Pasadena, CA. Green Dot has served more than 33 million consumers directly over the last 20 years and many more through our banking partners.

With so much uncertainty in the pandemic… The last thing anyone wants to worry about is getting paid. Luckily, like everything else digital, the pandemic is accelerating existing trends. And that’s making it easier for everyone to get paid when they need it. My guest today is Andrew Garner, Senior Vice President/General Manager, Business Partnerships at Netspend, where he’s helping solve payroll problems for the pandemic and beyond. In this episode, we discuss: How the pandemic is affecting payroll Existing trends that are being accelerated by the crisis The future of payrollTo ensure that you never miss an episode of Payments Innovation, subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or here and don’t forget to check out our YouTube! Until next time!

In this episode, Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay continue their discussion on deal structuring. Today, the focus is on roll-ups. Key takeaways from this episode are: • Highly fragmented industries are ripe for roll-ups • A roll-up is an attractive exit alternative for companies that are subscale or have an incomplete management organization • Transparency from both the buyer and the seller leads to the most successful outcomes Other episodes in our series about deal structuring include price and terms, earn outs, rollover equity, and reps and warranty insurance.  Later in this episode, Gina is joined by our guest Rob Humble, Chief Revenue Officer at Innovative Aftermarket Systems ("IAS"), to share his insights from executing a roll-up strategy for IAS as the Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development. In this episode, Colonnade Advisors addresses the following questions as related to roll-ups: What is a roll-up? (01:02) Gina: "A roll-up is when an owner, which could be a private equity owner or a strategic, starts with a platform company. The roll-up adds other companies in the same industry, and they're typically smaller companies than the platform. The add-on companies are rolled into the platform." What is the purpose of implementing a roll-up strategy? (01:34) Gina: "It's a way for a company to increase in size inorganically, quickly, and while doing so, they are recognizing both expense synergies and perhaps revenue synergies." Jeff: "It plays on the themes that we've talked about in other episodes, which is bigger is better, in many respects. Generally, bigger companies are more attractive to a wider audience of investors or buyers." What industries typically do roll-ups? (02:42) Gina: "One industry that comes to mind is the insurance agency industry. We have seen this time and time again, where a private equity firm buys an insurance agency, a large insurance agency, and then they start making smaller acquisitions." Jeff: "The insurance distribution sector is perfect for the roll-up strategy. It's low capital intensity, recurring revenue, and highly fragmented market." What type of companies implement roll-up strategies? (04:29) Jeff: "This strategy works for large public companies, private equity firms, and independent companies." What is the rationale for roll-ups? (05:34) Gina: "One is geographic. Number two, it might be because of specific product knowledge. Number three, it can be to get a specific customer. What is the financial benefit of roll-ups? (06:49) Jeff: "A large platform company is going to trade at a higher multiple than a smaller company. There's arbitrage if a large platform company acquires smaller add-on acquisitions and integrates successfully." Why is integration important? (07:56) Gina: "Sometimes, acquisitions fail because they fail to integrate properly. That is not just making sure everybody is on the same technology system, but integrating cultures, integrating client relationships, and integrating product sets. That is the real challenge in an acquisition." Jeff: "The integration is key to a lot of things, certainly to value maximization over time." How do add-on companies benefit from roll-ups? (10:23) Jeff: "The add-on companies benefit from the resources of the parent company, the larger enterprise. Add-on companies can grow their business, which probably will have some contingent consideration involved in the transaction, and be a part of the success." Gina: "The smaller company, ideally, will have some rollover equity or earn outs that are structured on growth in the company, so you get to participate in the upside." When Colonnade represents a seller into a roll-up, what diligence is done on the buyer? (12:10) Jeff: "We do diligence on the parent company and the financial sponsor. We talk about their track record and history in doing roll-ups. We do diligence on the acquisitions they have done already and the outlook of the combined entity. Part of the consideration to our client is likely going to be equity in this new entity, so we will think about how much to rollover, what's it worth, what are all the conditions around it, and who is in control." What is one of the challenges for sellers in a roll-up? And what are the trade-offs? (13:23) Gina: "One of the challenges for entrepreneurs when they go through a sale process is the sudden realization that they're going to have a boss. Entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs for a reason. They like running the show. It can be a challenge to be part of a larger organization and not be in charge." Jeff: "There are the trade outs with control. Being part of a larger organization, the add-on company benefits from the growth of the larger organization, increased size, and resources for future acquisitions." What is the potential upside for sellers that rolled over equity into the new entity from a financial perspective? (15:63) Gina: "The upside can be enormous. The next exit with the platform could be worth just as much if not more than when the seller went in and did the first transaction." What is your outlook on roll-ups used in transactions? (17:45) Gina: "Roll-ups are used all the time. Going into the next decade, I do not see a slow down in roll-ups as a strategy being deployed by private equity firms." Gina invites Rob Humble, Chief Revenue Officer at IAS, to share his insights from executing a roll-up strategy for IAS as the Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development. What is the most effective structure for proceeds to the seller for a roll-up? (18:40) • An acquisition under private equity ownership generally comes with an equity component • For sellers that are not looking to be a long-term part of a bigger organization, they are likely maximizing value at closing, which means they are going to value cash and as little earn out as possible • IAS was private equity-owned and was buying companies that bought into the private equity model, which is to invest the executive’s energy, and together produce greater value and then share in that value How do you guide sellers that shy away from roll-ups because they want to protect their employees? (21:13) • As the buyer, be honest and transparent as much as possible throughout the process • Sellers can build a deep trust with the buyer and can trust that the deal that they entered into together is going to work out for not only what the buyers’ strategic intent is, but sellers’ as well • It is best if the buyer can collaborate with the sellers on what are the ways that they can be more efficient together How do you get business owners comfortable with working for someone post the transaction? (23:33) • It comes back to honesty, transparency, and as much diligence both ways as possible. What would you tell a business owner that is getting ready to sell into a roll-up strategy? (23:51) • Get prepared and get organized. Perform diligence on your own company before you let somebody else look at your company • Sellers should understand why they want to sell then find a buyer that they believe meets that criteria Featured guest bio and contact information: Rob Humble Email: rhumble@iasdirect.com Rob Humble is the Chief Revenue Officer at Innovative Aftermarket Systems. Before coming to IAS Rob held strategy and corporate development leadership roles with financial services firms NetSpend and Rent-A-Center. Prior to his time in financial services, Rob held strategy, finance, and operations roles at Fortune 500 companies spanning the automotive, defense & aerospace, and chemical industries. Rob earned his bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from Washington University in St. Louis, graduating magna cum laude. He also holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. Rob lives in Austin, TX with his wife and two young kids. He enjoys hanging out with his family, distance running, binge-watching the hottest TV shows, watching Oklahoma Sooners football and indulging in random interests including knitting, furniture building, and home improvement. Host Information: Gina Cocking Gina Cocking serves as the Chief Executive Officer of Colonnade Advisors. She returned to Colonnade as a Managing Director in 2014. Gina began her career in investment banking at Kidder Peabody, was an analyst at Madison Dearborn Partners, and an associate at J.P. Morgan & Co. She was a Vice President at Colonnade Advisors from 1999 to 2003. She left Colonnade to gain operating experience as the Chief Financial Officer of Cobalt Finance, a specialty finance company. She went on to become the Chief Financial Officer of Healthcare Laundry Systems, a privateequity-backed company for which she oversaw the successful sale to a strategic acquirer. Gina served as the Line of Business CFO – Consumer Banking and Lending at Discover Financial Services. Gina serves on the Board of Directors of CIB Marine Bancshares, Inc., a bank holding company based in Brookfield, Wisconsin, that operates banking offices in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin. Gina received her BA in Economics and an MBA from the University of Chicago. Additionally, Gina holds the Series 24, 28, 79, and 99 securities licenses. Jeff Guylay Jeff Guylay is a Managing Director of Colonnade Advisors. Prior to joining Colonnade in 2000, Jeff was an investment banker at J.P. Morgan in the firm's Mergers & Acquisitions and Fixed Income Capital Markets groups in New York. He also spent several years in J.P. Morgan's Chicago office. Jeff has over 20 years of M&A and investment banking experience and has served as lead execution partner on over 25 M&A and financing transactions at Colonnade. Jeff received an MBA from Northwestern University's Kellogg Graduate School of Management and a Master of Engineering Management from the University's McCormick School of Engineering. Jeff received a BA from Dartmouth College and a BE from Dartmouth's Thayer School of Engineering. Jeff holds the Series 7, 24, 63, and 79 securities licenses. Jeff serves as a director of the non-profit Nurture, an organization dedicated to enhancing the nutrition and wellness of children and families. About the Middle Market Mergers & Acquisitions Podcast Get the insiders' take on mergers and acquisitions. M&A investment bankers Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay of Colonnade Advisors discuss the technical aspects of and tactics used in middle market deals. This podcast offers actionable advice and strategies for selling your company and is aimed at owners of middle market companies in the financial services and business services sectors. Middle market companies are generally valued between $20 million and $500 million.

In this episode, Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay conclude their discussion around the due diligence process related to the sale of a company. This episode is part of a four-episode series exploring the due diligence process that began with 003 on the business aspects of the due diligence process. EP003: Business aspects of due diligence EP004: Legal aspects of due diligence EP005: Accounting aspects of due diligence EP006: Technology aspects of due diligence Gina is again joined by our featured guest, Rob Humble, Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS. Rob shares his insights as a buyer on technology issues that arise in diligence. Gina and Jeff’s discussion highlights four key questions related to the technology aspects of due diligence: 1) who is doing what (who is leading the tech team, who is on the tech team, and what aspects of technology are outsourced)? 2) Who controls the intellectual property? 3) How much has been spent, and how much needs to be spent over the next few years? 4) Is the technology scalable for growth? In this episode, Colonnade Advisors addresses the following questions as related to the technology aspects of due diligence: Are technology aspects of due diligence applicable even if the company is not a technology company? (1:00) Gina: “Every company is tech-enabled, so every company is going to have some element of technology that they utilize every day. Disclaimer, this is not for technology companies. This episode is not a deep dive on the due diligence that a buyer or investor would conduct on a technology-focused company but instead a more general review of what all companies should think about when they're preparing to take on capital or sell the company.” When answering the question about who is doing what, where does a company start? (2:25) Gina: “Start with the easiest thing, and that's an org chart. Is there a chief technology officer who reports to the chief technology officer? Is there a database administrator? What is outsourced? Is there even a CTO? Is some of it done by a consulting firm that comes in weekly, quarterly, just on call? Who is doing the development, and who has the rights?” Does a company need proprietary technology to raise capital or be sold? (3:26) Jeff: “The in-house versus outsourced piece is particularly interesting especially for some of the smaller companies we work with, because a small company obviously may not be able to afford a CTO. Many of the clients we work with use off-the-shelf technology platforms, standard email, and other operating systems. The important issue is scalability.” What do investors look at during due diligence as related to technology? (3:00) Jeff: “They're going to come in and look through the financials and see where the costs are. They’ll look at the org chart and see who's doing what with whom.” What areas of technology are investors assessing during due diligence? (3:15) Jeff: “Everything from the reliability of the systems, cybersecurity, disaster recovery, the policies and procedures in place, and whether or not you’ve had any data breaches.” What should a company put together prior to a capital raise or sale? (4:57) Gina: “A system diagram. A piece of paper with a bunch of boxes that show laptops, servers, internet/cloud form, e-commerce backbone, CRM, and where all the systems are located.” What else needs to be compiled and documented? (5:47) Gina: “What licenses do you have? What technology do you own, and who built it? What is your cybersecurity around all these different technologies? What are the processes and procedures as documented in manuals? Another big area when assessing the technology is disaster recovery. If the electricity were to go out for three hours and you had to bring everything back up, can you do it?” Does having proprietary technology make a company more valuable in a sale? (9:34) Gina: “One thing that we run into sometimes with companies that we're working with is they'll say, "I am different from my competitors because I have a better operating platform. We spent $4 million on it, and it is better than what my competitors are using. Is my company worth more?" That question always causes me to pause. It's great to have your own platform; it may make you more efficient, and we will want to explore and test whether or not it increases your efficiency as a company. But unless you can actually take that technology and sell it to other customers, it may not have intrinsic value unto itself.” Should I build proprietary technology prior to selling my company? (10:27) Jeff: “We encounter the buy versus build discussion all the time. It is challenging because entrepreneurs may be thinking in terms of an outlandish multiple. It depends on whether or not that technology is unique enough, flexible enough, adaptable, and scalable.” What are some of the scalability issues around technology in the sale of a company? (11:45) Gina: “Buyers will ask: "How much is it going to cost me to keep this up? When do we have to upgrade? How do we know you're keeping up with all the regulatory, compliance, latest and greatest in cybersecurity?” In middle market companies, these questions are hard to cover with a four-person tech department.” Does a company need to upgrade systems prior to a sale? (13:23) Jeff: “We're working with a client right now that has been on an older loan management platform for 25 years, and as part of the capital raise we're going to help work with them to upgrade systems. They're going to jump from one smaller universe loan management system to a more widely adopted one. The transition from one system to another is always tricky and expensive and takes longer than you think. There's business risk of moving from one platform to another. We've talked about in other podcasts the importance of hitting your numbers and focusing on your business. To layer on a systems transition or integration project at the same time is probably more than you want to bite off.” How are technology investments accounted for in valuing a business? (14:45) Gina: “When looking at the costs of technology, you look at the past investments and future investments. For past investments, we’ll look at: Was it properly accounted for? Were technology costs capitalized where they can be capitalized? Oftentimes we'll find that these expenses could have been capitalized. We’ll do a proforma adjustment to the financials to add back those costs. These costs will not count against you on your EBITDA, as it was a one-time charge. Then we'll look at future technology expenses and we will model that out in our forecasts.” How is technology when used as shared services between divisions or subsidiaries accounted for in a transaction? (16:27) Jeff: “Some of our clients, particularly larger corporate clients, are operating as divisions or subsidiaries of larger businesses. They share services with the parent organization. We go through the financials carefully to make sure that you have the right expenses associated with the business, you have the right licenses that can transfer with the business that you're selling, boxing the whole thing up to make sure that the package is complete.” Why is scalability a key issue in technology due diligence? (17:43) Gina: “When a buyer is evaluating a company, they are looking at future growth. A big part of that is how scalable is the technology.” What is typically more scalable, off-the-shelf technology or home-grown systems? (18:00) Gina: “Typically, off the shelf and web-based systems should be very scalable. You can get to two, 10, 20 times the current size, and the technology should be able to scale with you. When the technology is homegrown, there will be a deeper investigation into how scalable that technology is and what costs are involved with scaling that technology.” Why is a technology review important when selling a company? (19:10) Jeff: “It all comes back to valuation and the forecast that we present to the buyers. Even if these aren't technology companies, they're all tech-enabled, and you don't want them to be tech disabled. We absolutely have to be able to defend the diligence that the platforms and systems and policies and procedures we have in place can support the growth plan.” Gina invites Rob Humble, Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS, who shares his perspective from the buy side of a transaction as related to technology due diligence. What exactly are you looking for in technology diligence? (21:45) Rob: “For us, it's not about whizzbang innovations; it's not about is it bigger, faster, better. Generally speaking, what we're looking for is sustainability. Is it secure? Is it written on a solid code base? Is it written on the right tech stack that we're going to be able to support long term?” Featured guest bio and contact information: Rob Humble Email: rhumble@iasdirect.com Rob Humble leads strategy and corporate development for IAS. Before coming to IAS, Rob held strategy and corporate development leadership roles with financial services firms NetSpend and Rent-A-Center. Prior to his time in financial services, Rob held strategy, finance, and operations roles at Fortune 500 companies spanning the automotive, defense & aerospace, and chemical industries. Rob earned his bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from Washington U. in St. Louis, graduating magna cum laude. He also holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. Rob lives in Austin, TX with his wife and two young kids. He enjoys hanging out with his family, distance running, binge-watching the hottest TV shows, watching Oklahoma Sooners football, and indulging in random interests including knitting, furniture building, and home improvement. About Our Hosts Gina Cocking Gina Cocking serves as the Chief Executive Officer of Colonnade Advisors. She returned to Colonnade as a Managing Director in 2014. Gina began her career in investment banking at Kidder Peabody, was an analyst at Madison Dearborn Partners and an associate at J.P. Morgan & Co. She was a Vice President at Colonnade Advisors from 1999 to 2003. She left Colonnade to gain operating experience as the Chief Financial Officer of Cobalt Finance, a specialty finance company. She went on to become the Chief Financial Officer of Healthcare Laundry Systems, a private-equity backed company for which she oversaw the successful sale to a strategic acquirer. Gina served as the Line of Business CFO – Consumer Banking and Lending at Discover Financial Services. Gina serves on the Board of Directors of CIB Marine Bancshares, Inc., a bank holding company based in Waukesha, Wisconsin, that operates banking offices in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin. Gina received her BA in Economics and an MBA from the University of Chicago. Additionally, Gina holds the Series 24, 28, 79 and 99 securities licenses. About Jeff Guylay Jeff Guylay is a Managing Director of Colonnade Advisors. Prior to joining Colonnade in 2000, Jeff was an investment banker at J.P. Morgan in the firm’s Mergers & Acquisitions and Fixed Income Capital Markets groups in New York. He also spent several years in J.P. Morgan’s Chicago office. Jeff has over 20 years of M&A and investment banking experience and has served as lead execution partner on over 25 M&A and financing transactions at Colonnade. Jeff received an MBA from Northwestern University’s Kellogg Graduate School of Management and a Master of Engineering Management from the University’s McCormick School of Engineering. Jeff received a BA from Dartmouth College and a BE from Dartmouth’s Thayer School of Engineering. Jeff holds the Series 7, 24, 63, and 79 securities licenses. Jeff serves as a director of the non-profit Nurture, an organization dedicated to enhancing the nutrition and wellness of children and families. About the Middle Market Mergers & Acquisitions Podcast Get the insiders’ take on mergers and acquisitions. M&A investment bankers Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay of Colonnade Advisors discuss the technical aspects of and tactics used in middle market deals. This podcast offers actionable advice and strategies for selling your company and is aimed at owners of middle market companies in the financial services and business services sectors. Middle market companies are generally valued between $20 million and $500 million. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast, and please consider leaving us a short review. Learn more about Colonnade Advisors: https://coladv.com/ Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/colonnade-advisors-llc_2/

Due diligence is a crucial component of any M&A transaction. In this episode, Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay discuss the second topic in our due diligence series--legal due diligence. Jeff is joined by featured guest, Will Turner, a partner at Steptoe & Johnson, to discuss lessons learned and pitfalls that sellers can avoid as they think about getting ready to go to market, from a legal due diligence perspective. Later in the episode, Gina is joined by our second featured guest, Rob Humble, Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS, who shares his insights as a buyer on legal issues that arise in diligence. This episode is one of four on M&A due diligence. Episodes 003 focuses on business due diligence, and later episodes will focus on accounting and technology diligence. Show Notes: Jeff Guylay talks about legal due diligence being a sub-set of the broader due diligence process and recaps why diligence is conducted – to thoroughly understand the company to best position it in the market and to prepare the company for buyer and investor diligence (00.38) Gina Cocking talks about the different legal groups involved in a transaction, including corporate M&A attorneys, corporate contract attorneys, employment attorneys, litigation attorneys, regulatory attorneys, and tax attorneys (02:29) Jeff and Gina discuss the importance of hiring a good law firm in a transaction (03:34) Gina outlines what the law firms are reviewing during diligence, including contracts, formation documents, shareholder documentation, employment agreements, applications and licenses (04:42) Jeff comments that the legal diligence process is like a house cleaning exercise. There are instances in which licensees or ways of doing business historically may not make sense going forward (06:16) Gina talks about the importance of having attorneys review materials years before going to market. It is good business hygiene (09:04) Jeff discusses the role of a financial advisor in the legal review. Financial advisors are not attorneys but will coordinate the assembly of information, generally via massive Excel trackers, and ultimately securely disseminate information. Over a thousand documents are collected during typical legal diligence, and all get captured in an electronic data room (09:20) Gina discusses the importance of having a good legal tracker (11:15) Jeff talks about how litigation is inevitable in the corporate world and how keeping track of the details of each incident is important as it demonstrates transparency and organization (12:54) Gina talks about how legal issues may impact company valuation (14:16) Gina and Jeff discuss how a business that litigates aggressively might be perceived negatively as some people shy away from folks that are quick to sue (14:52) Jeff discusses background checks (15:43) Will Turner, a partner at Steptoe & Johnson, joins the show and talks about lessons learned or pitfalls that sellers can avoid as they think about getting ready to go to market from a legal due diligence perspective. One important concept is to provide all information upfront to avoid surprises. The second is identifying who within your management and employee group is a source for valuable information about the company and including them in the process if possible (17:40) Rob Humble, Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS, joins the show to share his thoughts as a buyer on legal issues that arise in diligence. For Bob, a big concern is the trend in legal activities (21:21) Rob talks about how an ongoing legal situation with financial implications could very well have an impact on valuation (21:48) Gina’s closing thoughts on today's discussion on legal diligence: The three key takeaways are, 1) it is never too early to get your attorney involved to prep for diligence; 2) legal issues will not necessarily kill the deal, but should be addressed early; and 3) sellers need to know where the bodies are buried and need to discuss the issues with their advisors upfront (22:35) Featured guests bio and contact information: Rob Humble Email: rhumble@iasdirect.com Rob Humble leads strategy and corporate development for IAS. Before coming to IAS, Rob held strategy and corporate development leadership roles with financial services firms NetSpend and Rent-A-Center. Prior to his time in financial services Rob held strategy, finance, and operations roles at Fortune 500 companies spanning the automotive, defense & aerospace, and chemical industries. Rob earned his bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from Washington U. in St. Louis, graduating magna cum laude. He also holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. Rob lives in Austin, TX with his wife and two young kids. He enjoys hanging out with his family, distance running, binge-watching the hottest TV shows, watching Oklahoma Sooners football and indulging in random interests including knitting, furniture building, and home improvement. Will Turner Email: wturner@steptoe.com Will Turner has more than two decades of experience in corporate and securities law, primarily with application to cryptocurrency, fund formation, investment transactions, and mergers and acquisitions. He also advises clients on matters involving capitalizations, project finance, restructurings and joint ventures. Will is well-versed in securities offerings, '40 Act work, and corporate governance matters. He also advises clients on distribution, sales, technology and financial services commercial agreements. Will has represented a number of European companies and investors in their acquisitions, investments, commercial, and regulatory matters in the United States. He has led numerous fund and joint venture formations. About the Hosts: Gina Cocking serves as the Chief Executive Officer of Colonnade Advisors. Gina began her career in investment banking at Kidder Peabody, was an analyst at Madison Dearborn Partners and an associate at J.P. Morgan & Co. She was the Chief Financial Officer of Cobalt Finance, a specialty finance company. She went on to become the Chief Financial Officer of Healthcare Laundry Systems, a private-equity backed company for which she oversaw the successful sale to a strategic acquirer. Gina served as the Line of Business CFO – Consumer Banking and Lending at Discover Financial Services. Gina serves on the Board of Directors of CIB Marine Bancshares, Inc. Gina received her BA in Economics and an MBA from the University of Chicago. Jeff Guylay is a Managing Director of Colonnade Advisors. Prior to joining Colonnade in 2000, Jeff was an investment banker at J.P. Morgan in the firm’s Mergers & Acquisitions and Fixed Income Capital Markets groups in New York. He also spent several years in J.P. Morgan’s Chicago office. Jeff has over 20 years of M&A and investment banking experience and has served as lead execution partner on over 25 M&A and financing transactions at Colonnade. Jeff received an MBA from Northwestern University’s Kellogg Graduate School of Management and a Master of Engineering Management from the University’s McCormick School of Engineering. Jeff received a BA from Dartmouth College and a BE from Dartmouth’s Thayer School of Engineering. About the Show: Get the insiders’ take on mergers and acquisitions. M&A investment bankers Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay of Colonnade Advisors discuss the technical aspects of and tactics used in middle market deals. This podcast offers actionable advice and strategies for selling your company and is aimed at owners of middle market companies in the financial services and business services sectors. Middle market companies are generally valued between $20 million and $500 million.

In this episode, Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay discuss business due diligence.  Due diligence is so important in any M&A transaction that we're devoting four episodes to the topic. Please stay tuned for upcoming episodes 004 through 006 about Due Diligence.  In addition to business due diligence, we'll cover financial, legal, and technology-related aspects of due diligence. Here are two key points from the discussion on business diligence in today's episode: 1) Organization is crucial in this process; every document will be requested, every question will be asked. 2) Prepare so that there are no surprises; every rock will be overturned.  Essentially, a seller needs to tell their advisors the good, the bad, and the ugly. You’ll see why we’ve named this episode “Uncovering the Skeletons in Your Closet”. This episode features guest Rob Humble to provide his insights from his involvement with transactions as both the buyer and seller. Rob is the Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS.  In this episode, Gina and Jeff of Colonnade Advisors address the following questions: What is due diligence? (02:18) The process of working with the management of a company and, at a very high level, learning everything that possibly can be learned about the company. Colonnade Advisors turns over every rock to understand all of the strengths and weaknesses of the company, understanding both the past, present, and future. We understand why the company does certain things, what the contracts say, and what its obligations are. We do an assessment so that when the buyer or a lender comes in, they know what they're getting into. What is examined during due diligence? (02:48) Employee records, contracts, financials, lawsuits, marketing plans, training manuals, handbooks, analyzing turnover, customer concentration, unit economics, etc. All the skeletons in the closet, everything about the business. How does due diligence affect the Purchase Agreement? (04:41) A large component of the purchase agreement is the reps and warranties section, where the seller represents that everything they have shown and shared with the buyer is true and correct, etc. The legal agreement, the purchase agreement, governs the transaction and the future. What is a confidential information memorandum (CIM)? Jeff Guylay:  “When I think about the CIM, the confidential information memorandum, or the book, that's really a mix of disclosure, risk, and market business and how great is this company and what are the future prospects... also what's happened in the past and what are the risks for a future buyer, going forward.” Who is involved in due diligence? (08:13) Gina Cocking: “It’s handled by a number of people. If it's a private equity firm, the private equity firm team members are very knowledgeable and will ask a lot of questions in the business diligence segment. There will also be consultants that are hired from time to time, specialized consultants that understand the industry or the specific product that's being done, or sometimes they're HR consultants or specific marketing-types consultants.” What happens first in Colonnade’s due diligence process? (08:55) Jeff: “When we get hired to work with a client, the first thing we do is put together a due diligence request list and a data (request) list. We get together with the company, and we spend the better part of a day, and sometimes a day and a half, going through our lists and just asking question after question after question.”  What is the purpose of Colonnade’s due diligence? (09:35) Jeff: “The point of us going through and asking all these questions is to put our investor hat on or our buyer hat on and ask 90% or 95% of the questions that they (the buyer and/or investor) are going to ask. We want to make sure that we have all the right answers...before they're required by a buyer, and we want to make sure the story is consistent.” What if there are skeletons in the closet? (10:10) Jeff: “If there are any problems, let's hear about it now, because the worst thing you want, as we've talked about, is to have surprises later on or something come up at the last minute that can kill a deal or have a major change in pricing or terms.” Gina (10:34): “I'm your business confessor, for all the ugly and dirty and you-wanted-to-hide-it-under-the-bed (items; it's) time to talk about it because it will come out later, and the worst thing is to not be prepared for when that happens, so we need to know everything.” The advisor-client relationship is one of trust. What are the first questions asked when kicking off Colonnade’s diligence session with a new client, and how do those questions add to the story? (12:49) When and where was the company formed? What is the corporate history? What are the major operating entities? What are they doing, what's the purpose of them? Is there any tail liability that we should be thinking about or carving out? Why are these questions important in the due diligence process? (13:51) Gina: “Everybody remembers a story. It's great to hear the owner's story because we often are retelling their story later on.” Jeff (14:36): “When we launch into the market..we're the front line of communications. We're expected to be able to answer 90% or 95% of the initial questions that come through. We're telling the story, and the (Colonnade) diligence process is meant to educate us, to make sure that we're as fully informed about the history and the prospects of the company as possible.” What are some of the legal aspects of the diligence process? (15:00) Gina: “Not only do we have the different legal entities, but we also have different tax structures, sometimes they're C-corps, sometimes they're S-corps, and so you have all these different legal entities, all these different tax structures.” Jeff (17:21): “This is usually where we request the name and contact information of the attorney. If you have ten entities and there is no holding company, we should probably do some leg work ahead of time and clean things up. I know we've done that on a number of deals.” (Please note that the Middle Market Mergers & Acquisitions podcast will dedicate an entire aspect to the legal aspects of due diligence) What kinds of documents are requested in the due diligence process? (18:16) Gina:  “We're going to ask for all the formation documents, operating agreements, shareholder agreements, articles of incorporation, the state articles of incorporation, that can be three or four documents per legal entity... “ Jeff (19:10): “In addition to the shareholder documentation, we're looking for board minutes, board packages, (and) all the corporate organizational materials that have been accumulated throughout the years.” What important business aspects tend to come up during the diligence process? (20:32) Gina: “An important component of any transaction is customer concentration. That has a big impact on valuation, and there's a very logical reason as to why. If a customer represents a lot of the company’s revenues, the buyer's concern is, ‘Wow, what if that customer walks? What if you lose that customer?’ And then I just bought a company and it has 60% of the revenues that I thought it had. There are a number of PE firms... where their fund will say, ‘We cannot buy a company that has customer concentration of greater than 20% for one customer or 60% for the top three customers." Jeff (22:17): “The next topic we cover when we're talking about revenue is the sales force, so sales and marketing in general. We get a good picture of what they're selling and who they're selling to, and now the question is how are they selling? Do you have a direct sales force? Is it a channel strategy? What are the different ways that this company goes to market, and how are they selling stuff?”  What are some other questions that come up during business due diligence? (22:57) Jeff: “How do you pay your sales force? What sort of non-solicitation or non-compete agreements do you have with your sales force?  How institutionalized are the relationships? How long have they been around?”  Gina (24:29): “A (common) situation is when the buyer says, ‘I would like to speak to the end customer.’  We often get into discussions with the buyers about when those conversations will happen. Jeff (25:27): “The other thing I would comment on in sales and marketing is getting a sense of competitors, so what does the competitive landscape look like? (26:02): Part of the go-to-market discussion is how are you going to market against your competitors? So, what are they doing differently than you? How do you compete against them? And how are you going to win?”  Gina (27:00): “The next area that we start looking into is marketing channels and marketing partners. Clients sometimes have a partnership where they are co-marketing with another entity. We get really excited about marketing partnerships. It's not necessarily because there are a lot of sales coming through those channels, but because of the validation that they give to the company.” Gina (28:38): “The other side of sales is the cost of goods sold. Who are your vendors? We're going to look into all of your vendor relationships.” (29:32): “We will take a look at the pricing from the vendors. We'll be looking at the contract terms with the vendors.”  Gina invites Rob Humble, Senior Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at IAS, who shares his perspectives from both the buy and sell sides as related to business due diligence. Gina: “How do you stay organized and keep the process moving quickly?” (32:10) Rob: “It's definitely like herding cats.  Upwards of 100 people, between advisors and internal folks. I believe, fundamentally, that time kills deals; so you have to be as efficient as possible.” It really comes down to two fundamental points in the process: 1) Preparation (Pre-game) 2) Truly committing to the sale process (Game on). “(Pre-game) we literally took our own medicine, and it took us a few months of answering our own questions before we had a data room that we felt was full. You can be much more strategic about the way that you present (the information) in your sales material, and you can also be more strategic about the rate and timing of when you release those documents. We used the diligence checklist that we use for the buying process...for creating our own internal data room.” Gina: “I think one of the biggest problems that companies run into is trying to stay the course and do their day job (running the business) while going through a sale process without all the wheels falling off the bus.” (34:00) Rob: “There are three components (to our success) that come to mind: 1) Designate a leader of the process. The best person for this is that utility player that is great at coordinating across the team and ensuring the organization is really given the attention that it deserves. You need a utility player that knows the organization, knows the people, knows the data, knows the system, and can run point for you. 2) Form a team that meets every week. That's a cross-functional team with the players that have access to the data systems and decision-making authority that you need to answer questions and have them be supported by the evidence that will ultimately get dug up in later diligence.  3) Follow a clear process. We were very careful. Gina:  “You did quite a few acquisitions over the last four or five years. But you were also involved in the sale of IAS. How did it feel to be in the hot seat? I mean, the tables were turned.” (39:00) Rob (39:17): “I loved it.  A sales process, at the end of the day, is just telling a story and supporting that story with evidence to make it as believable and credible as you possibly can. I loved the process of understanding what our story is, building the dataset to support that story, and then going out and telling the story.”  Gina: “Now, looking back on all that you've done, is there one piece of advice you would give to someone that is getting ready to go through an M&A process?” (40:07) Rob (40:36): “Get the right advisors.”  About Our Guest Rob Humble leads strategy and corporate development for IAS. Before coming to IAS Rob held strategy and corporate development leadership roles with financial services firms NetSpend and Rent-A-Center. Prior to his time in financial services, Rob held strategy, finance, and operations roles at Fortune 500 companies spanning the automotive, defense & aerospace, and chemical industries. Rob earned his bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from Washington U. in St. Louis, graduating magna cum laude. He also holds an MBA from Harvard Business School. Rob lives in Austin, TX with his wife and two young kids. He enjoys hanging out with his family, distance running, watching Oklahoma Sooners football, and indulging in random interests including knitting, furniture building, and home improvement. Email: rhumble@iasdirect.com About Gina Cocking Gina Cocking serves as the Chief Executive Officer of Colonnade Advisors. She returned to Colonnade as a Managing Director in 2014. Gina began her career in investment banking at Kidder Peabody, was an analyst at Madison Dearborn Partners and an associate at J.P. Morgan & Co. She was a Vice President at Colonnade Advisors from 1999 to 2003. She left Colonnade to gain operating experience as the Chief Financial Officer of Cobalt Finance, a specialty finance company. She went on to become the Chief Financial Officer of Healthcare Laundry Systems, a private-equity backed company for which she oversaw the successful sale to a strategic acquirer. Gina served as the Line of Business CFO – Consumer Banking and Lending at Discover Financial Services. Gina serves on the Board of Directors of CIB Marine Bancshares, Inc., a bank holding company based in Waukesha, Wisconsin, that operates banking offices in Illinois, Indiana, and Wisconsin. Gina received her BA in Economics and an MBA from the University of Chicago. Additionally, Gina holds the Series 24, 28, 79 and 99 securities licenses. About Jeff Guylay Jeff Guylay is a Managing Director of Colonnade Advisors. Prior to joining Colonnade in 2000, Jeff was an investment banker at J.P. Morgan in the firm’s Mergers & Acquisitions and Fixed Income Capital Markets groups in New York. He also spent several years in J.P. Morgan’s Chicago office. Jeff has over 20 years of M&A and investment banking experience and has served as lead execution partner on over 25 M&A and financing transactions at Colonnade. Jeff received an MBA from Northwestern University’s Kellogg Graduate School of Management and a Master of Engineering Management from the University’s McCormick School of Engineering. Jeff received a BA from Dartmouth College and a BE from Dartmouth’s Thayer School of Engineering. Jeff holds the Series 7, 24, 63, and 79 securities licenses. Jeff serves as a director of the non-profit Nurture, an organization dedicated to enhancing the nutrition and wellness of children and families. About the Middle Market Mergers & Acquisitions Podcast Get the insiders’ take on mergers and acquisitions. M&A investment bankers Gina Cocking and Jeff Guylay of Colonnade Advisors discuss the technical aspects of and tactics used in middle market deals. This podcast offers actionable advice and strategies for selling your company and is aimed at owners of middle market companies in the financial services and business services sectors. Middle market companies are generally valued between $20 million and $500 million. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast, and please consider leaving us a short review. Learn more about Colonnade Advisors: https://coladv.com/ Follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/colonnade-advisors-llc_2/

Good news bad news get my payment site work but my money went to a closed account and I couldn't change it. Trying to call NetSpend where the closed program it was a travel rewards program and I believe that I will be forced to wait for a slow paper check things just didn't work out I guess. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/bigdcountry/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/bigdcountry/support

On this episode of Transaction Trending, podcast host Amy Zirkle is joined by Jeff Johnson, Senior Vice President of Commercial Prepaid at Netspend for a conversation on the prepaid marketplace.

Barry James, chief investment officer at the James Advantage Funds, said the market is not functioning properly because companies with no earnings have been up by 20 percent this year, while, by comparison, companies with real earnings are down, a situation that creates the potential for a big downturn when the broad market wakes up to what is happening. James has been slowly raising cash and becoming more defensive in response. Also on the show, Kelley Knutson of Netspend on Americans' fluctuating incomes, Steve Lipper of the small-cap team at the Royce Funds talks the market, and David Trainer says a soon-to-launch IPO belongs in the 'Danger Zone.'

In today's episode, I chat with CCO Lisa Henken Ramirez, about implementing customer experience Netspend, a young, a finance-related company. Netspend is a leading provider of prepaid Visa® and Mastercard® cards for personal & commercial use. Lisa shares with us how she used her background in consulting and change management to help lead the company’s CX efforts and get Netspend employees to connect more authentically with customers.

In this episode, the NBPCA examines the Netspend Scholarship, which is awarded to Netspend cardholders who want to further their education. NBPCA’s COO Ben Jackson talks with Beth Deck, Netspend’s Senior Vice President of Accounting and Finance and Whitney Pocoroba, Customer Insights Manager and Manager of the Scholarship.  They cover how cardholders apply for and use the scholarships, and they take a look at the history and scope of the program. Listeners who want to learn more about the scholarship can contact the company at netspendscholarships@netspend.com. The latest press release on the program can be found here.

In this episode of Topic TBD, Kelley Knutson, the president of Netspend (owned by TSYS), delved with Karen Webster into how and why consumers make the payments choices they do, in the age of devices, rewards, apps, eWallets, and cards - virtual and plastic.

In this episode of Topic TBD, Kelley Knutson, the president of Netspend (owned by TSYS), delved with Karen Webster into how and why consumers make the payments choices they do, in the age of devices, rewards, apps, eWallets, and cards - virtual and plastic.

Dominic Venturo, CIO of US Bank Visiting Dominic Venturo is a little like walking onto a James Bond movie set during the Q gadget briefing scene. There is a wonderful "wow" factor in encountering the most fascinating new technologies in banking. The title "CIO" used to mean Chief Information Officer. It still does, of course, but today that "I" increasingly stands for another word too:  innovation. Dominic Venturo, the Chief Innovation Officer of U.S. Bank, reflects a growing trend of banks assigning specialized leaders to spearhead their work in innovative technology. U.S. Bank actually took this step long ago. As we learned in Episode 12 with CEO Richard Davis, this is the country's fifth largest bank, and its focus on innovation caused them to name Dominic for this role eight years ago. In fact, he was such an early user of Twitter that he got the extremely cool handle @innov8tr (be sure to follow him on Twitter - he's one of my favorites). I always love hearing the backgrounds of our podcast guests, and especially noticing how they break down between people with financial backgrounds, and people with anything but.  Dominic is a career banker with 16 years at U.S. Bank and 26 years overall in financial services product development and management, commercial risk management, commercial lending and sales management. He talked with me about how he's complemented that background with a wide mix of the other skills. He has 25 people, including many who, as he says, probably "spent a lot of time in the principal's office." In our conversation, he talks about how to make these trouble-makers highly productive and more broadly about the "art" of making great innovation happen inside a big company.  There's a lot of conventional advice about that challenge, including the need to wall-off the innovators. Dominic agrees with that, and also emphasizes that innovation must be a full-time job - he thinks it's delusional to imagine that part-time people will somehow stay on top of today's tech trends by catching up on their reading backlog after hours. At the same time, he talks a lot about how to keep innovation focused on the practical. One key, he says, is that "innovation loves constraints." Another is not to start with an abstract white board session, dreaming up brilliant solutions in search of problems, but rather to focus on finding the real problems that need to be solved - especially problems impacting the customer. When you do that, your bank will usually want them, even if implementation is going to take some work. At the same time, though, the practical focus has to be balanced with imagination and vision. Dominic's group tries to look 3-5 years ahead in thinking about the bank's operations, and at how people are behaving differently and doing jobs differently. They brainstorm trends and find the insights that will reshape markets and technologies. One key to getting this balance right is to set up new kinds of success metrics. Dominic discusses the dissonance between bank cultures built to keep risks and failures extremely low, versus innovation that requires trying a lot of things that will fail.  Financial companies need new ways to keep score. Our conversation also covered the downside risks that innovation creates for consumers; his thoughts on how regulation impacts innovation; and his advice on how to keep up with technology change. As I mentioned in my year-end wrap up, I always advise bankers to attend some fintech conferences. Dominic shares his list of favorites, including Finovate, Bank Innovation, and SXSW (I'll see you there this year, and also check out my end-of-year interview with Chuck Harris of Netspend for my own list of suggestions, including Emerge). We also got Dominic's recommendations for fintech trend-watching: Wall Street Journal Personal Tech, TechCrunch, and qz.com. And last but not least, again, I recommend following him on Twitter for cutting edge insight on tech trends, mixed with humor, such as on much needed respites from the content overload. Dominic's background: A few highlights on Dominic's background. He is frequently featured as a keynote speaker at industry conferences and has been recognized by Bank Innovation as a Top Innovator in Financial Services (#3, 2013), Bank Systems & Technology as one of "Elite 8" CIOs (2012), Twin Cities Business Magazine as one of "200 Minnesotans You Should Know" (2011), "Bank Technology News as "Mobile Banker of the Year" (2011) and as "Top 10 Innovator" (2009) and by Paybefore Magazine as a "Top 5 Innovator" (2011). He also serves on the board of directors of the Minnesota Community and Technical College Foundation. He earned a bachelor's degree in finance from Oregon State University and is a graduate of the Pacific Coast Banking School at the University of Washington Graduate School of Banking. The Q Factor: In our discussion, Dominic shares examples of innovation successes at U.S. Bank, including "advances in mobile payments, voice bio-metrics, tokenization and integrated mobile and web commerce solutions." As often happens, though, I found that our discussion got even more interesting after we turned off the microphone. He showed me an amazing product demo that's still embargoed but that really wowed me. And we talked about the Internet of Things. And then, he admired my iPhone 6s - we met just after they came out, and I'd gotten one before he did. He started talking about the Live Photo tool, which he described as "Harry Potter feature."  As often happens with me, I had a cool feature on my phone without even realizing it. So we recorded a little bonus feature as he showed me how to make a photo animation that looks a bit like the living portraits in Harry Potter's world. These are fun, as is my Google Photo tool dreaming up little animations for me using the photos I've taken. If you have Live Photo and don't know how to use it, here it is.  Enjoy my conversation with Dominic Venturo. If you enjoy our work to bring together thought provoking ideas and people please consider a contribution to support the site. Support the podcast Please subscribe to the podcast by opening your favorite podcast app and searching for "Jo Ann Barefoot", or in iTunes.    

My conversation with Chuck Harris, President of NetSpend, is our final episode for 2015. Thinking back on the brief eight months since we launched Barefoot Innovation, I’m struck by the enormous terrain we’ve covered. As we start into the new year, I’ll be sharing my own thoughts on what I’ve been learning from these discussions.   For now, though, enjoy listening to Chuck Harris, who touched on many of the major themes we have explored so far: the rise of fintech, prepaid cards, mobile platforms, mission-oriented companies, non-bank providers, partnerships, financial inclusion the underserved and underestimated consumers, regulatory challenges, uncertainty, and most of all excitement. Like some of our other guests, Chuck Harris leads a young company in a field, prepaid cards, that didn’t even exist until well into his career.  He says he feels lucky to have “stumbled” into a role that combines good business with doing good, a mix that is both challenging and rewarding (a sentiment expressed by many previous guests). It’s interesting that this episode follows on the heels of my discussion with the Comptroller of the Currency, Tom Curry, as it shares a common emphasis on the need for a new kind of collaboration as the financial sector undergoes disruption, including between industry and regulators. I think this kind of new dialogue is starting to emerge – a topic we’ll spend time on in 2016. NetSpend was established in 1999 as a way for “college kids to spend money,” and has since grown into a leading provider of reloadable prepaid cards and related financial services. It focuses on consumers that Chuck calls “self-banked” – the people often referred to as un- or under-banked. NetSpend seeks to empower the self-banked with FDIC-insured offerings through its network of over 70,000 distribution locations and 130,000 reload points. They have helped more than 10 million consumers make purchases, pay bills and manage their money without needing a checking account or credit history. In addition to prepaid cards, NetSpend offers a range of services including P2P and standard bank transfers, online and mobile apps, and budgeting tools. You can learn more about them at www.netSpend.com. Chuck joined the company 2010 after serving as general manager of the payment solutions division of Intuit. He previously held multiple positions for Electronic Clearing House, including President and CEO, President and COO, and as a director. He has also held leadership roles with Chase Paymentech, including as President and CEO of Merchant Link, a wholly owned subsidiary of Chase Paymentech.  He holds a B.B.A. in finance from the University of Texas at Austin. We recorded this conversation at the Money 20/20 Conference in Las Vegas, where Chuck and I both were speakers. That fact prompts me to suggest a new year’s resolution for our listeners, especially those in traditional financial fields: attend a fintech conference in 2016. Money 20/20 is the biggest, absolutely packed with energy and ideas and about 10,000 people. And I always recommend CFSI’s Emerge conference, which uniquely explores how new technology can benefit both providers and consumers.   (remember that I serve on CFSI’s board of directors). People often ask me how to learn quickly about innovation. For most, the best first step is to immerse in in the excitement of a tech conference. 2016 preview….and please consider donating: Barefoot Innovation will return in the New Year with a widening dialogue and extremely interesting guests. The early lineup will include one of the architects of Dodd-Frank; a primary author of America’s consumer financial protection regulations; a credit counseling leader; a top bank’s chief innovation officer; our first talk with a company built around Bitcoin, the founder of one of my very favorite startups; and a large bank’s compliance officer with detailed suggestions on how to design a “regulatory sandbox.” The sandbox concept -- the idea that fostering financial innovation will sometimes require a regulatory safe space for experimentation – is generating increasing dialogue among both industry and regulators (in fact, I’m heading today for London for a round table with the UK’s Financial Conduct Authority on a sandbox proposal they issued this fall.) We’ll explore it in the coming months. The above list of early 2016 guests includes only the episodes we’ve already recorded! They are full of insights and surprises (I’m even rating one of them PG-13). We have many more people set to talk with us, including leading regulators, bankers, non-bank executives, tech experts, compliance experts, policymakers, and many, many startups and other innovators. The robustness of the schedule reflects the fact that Barefoot Innovation has been growing far faster than I expected, and has in fact evolved into a major undertaking for me and the two young people who help me produce it.  If you’re enjoying the series and want to keep more episodes coming, let me encourage you to provide support for it, in any amount you like.  Meanwhile, I wish you all a holiday season filled with peace and joy, and will look forward to connecting in the New Year. If you enjoy our work to bring together thought provoking ideas and people please consider a contribution to support the site. Donate Please subscribe to the podcast by opening your favorite podcast app and searching for "Jo Ann Barefoot", or in iTunes.    

Netspend was the first prepaid debit card company focused on the “underbanked” population in the United States. Launched in 1999, Netspend targets people who do not have access to credit cards or hold bank accounts. Bertrand and Roy started the company out of their one bedroom apartment in Austin, Texas with $750. They later raised […]