Podcasts about katalin kariko

Starkregen und Überschwemmungen dürften infolge des Klimawandels zunehmen. Was bedeutet das? Und: Ist die Schweiz gewappnet? Ausserdem: Teilchen im Eis der Arktis und Antarktis zeigen, Vulkanausbrüche haben das Klima immer wieder massiv beeinflusst. Und: Nobelpreisträgerin Katalin Kariko. (00:40 ) Mehr Hochwasser mit Klimawandel – ist die Schweiz gewappnet? Die jüngsten Hochwasser in Süddeutschland verursachten Milliardenschäden und auch im Nordosten der Schweiz herrscht Hochwasser-Alarm. In Zukunft dürfte Starkregen als Folge des Klimawandels sogar noch zunehmen. Was bedeutet das für Überschwemmungen? Und: Wie gut ist die Schweiz gewappnet? (08:00) Meldungen: Elefanten rufen sich beim Namen, Vogelgrippe verbreitet sich unter Kühen, Abkommen zum Schutz der Ozonschicht greift: (13:30 ) Was Eisbohrkerne über Vulkane verraten Winzige Teilchen im Eis der Arktis und Antarktis zeigen, wie Vulkanausbrüche das Klima auch in der Schweiz immer wieder massiv beeinflusst haben. Und: Der nächstliegende Vulkan, der irgendwann wieder ausbrechen könnte, liegt weder in Island, noch in Italien – er liegt viel näher. (19:20 ) Katalin Kariko – die unbeirrbare Forscherin Die ungarische Biologin Katalin Kariko wuchs als Tochter eines Metzgers und einer Buchhalterin in sehr einfachen Verhältnissen auf. In der Biologie fand sie ihre grosse Passion. Sie wurde zur Wegbereiterin der mRNA-Technologie und zur Nobelpreisträgerin – vor der Corona-Pandemie aber war sie jahrzehntelang unterschätzt worden. Mehr zum Wissenschaftsmagazin und Links zu Studien: https://www.srf.ch/wissenschaftsmagazin.

How Nobel Prize laureate Katalin Kariko got caught up in the Covid vaccine disinformation wars. What was it like - as someone behind one of the vaccines – to be in the eye of the false information storm? Katalin tells her story to Babita Sharma. And US educator and artist Young Elder tells Babita how she helped to build trust in the vaccine among Baltimore's black community. She works with Hip Hop Health, an organisation combating health and vaccine disinformation, started by rapper Doug E Fresh.This content was created as a co-production between Nobel Prize Outreach and the BBC. Image: Courtesy of Katalin Kariko

“The history of science, it turns out, is filled with stories of very smart people laughing at good ideas.”—Katalin Karikó Ground Truths podcasts are now available on Apple and Spotify!The list of obstacles that Kati Karikó faced to become a scientist, to make any meaningful discovery, to prevail over certain scientists and administrators who oppressed her, unable to obtain grants, her seminal paper rejected by all of the top-tier journals, demoted and dismissed, but ultimately to be awarded the 2023 Nobel Prize with Drew Weissman, is a story for the ages. We covered them in this conversation, which for me will be unforgettable, and hopefully for you an inspiration.Recorded 30 January 2023, unedited transcript belowEric Topol (00:06):Well, hello, this is Eric Topol with Ground Truths, and I am really thrilled to have with me Kati Kariko, who I think everyone knows won the Nobel Prize with the Drew Weissman in 2023 and she has written a sensational book, it's called Breaking Through. I love that title because it's a play on words, a breakthrough and breaking through, and we have a lot to talk about Kati, so welcome.Katalin Kariko (00:34):Thank you very much for inviting me.Eric Topol (00:36):Yes, well I'd like to start off, as you did in the book with your background in Hungary where of course you started with a tough background in a one room house without running water and you never had exposures to scientists and somehow or other you became interested in science and you attributed some of these things like your biology teacher, Mr. Tóth and the book Stress of Life [by Hans Selye] Could you tell us a little bit more what stimulated you in a career of science?Katalin Kariko (01:18):I have to say that every child is interested in understanding the nature around them and so I was surrounded with nature because we had big garden, we had animals around and it was an exciting thing. The children ask questions and if they try to find an answer and teachers or parents might give the answer, but definitely the school, even elementary school was very stimulating. Teachers, chemistry teacher, figure out how we can make crystals and I was so excited to have my own crystals and things like that and in high school the teachers were so engaging and not like they tried to put all of the information into your brain, but they encourage you to think yourself, so that's all contributed. I think that most of the child in the first, I don't know, six, seven years of their life that's how they can see their parents behaving, their friends, the school, classmates, and they shaped what kind of people they will be at the end and the rest of it is refining.Eric Topol (02:41):Right, right. Well one of the things I loved that you brought up in the book was how much you liked the TV show Columbo. That's one of my favorite TV shows of all time and one more thing, one more thing. Can you talk a little bit about Columbo? Because in some ways you were like the Peter Falk of mRNA in terms of one more thing.Katalin Kariko (03:09):Yes, so I realized that we as researchers, we are not called searchers, we researchers, so we are repeating things. Of course everybody knows who committed the crime in Columbo because this is how it starts and you don't have to figure out, but it seems always that things in a different direction you would lead but all the little clues and some of my colleagues said that they as a physician, they have this tunnel vision. So the patient comes and they can figure out probably from some clues that this is the disease and they get back the lab results and others. Then they realize that one or two things is not fitting, but they always so strongly believe their first instinct. What I taught them to focus on those which will not fit because that will lead to the real perpetrator in case of Columbo.(04:23):And so I like the simplicity. I know that what we are doing this research is very over complicated, but we can break down in very simple question, yes or no and then repeating things and many experiments. When I did one was the experiments really the question and the nine of them was like just controls always. I have to have a control for that, control for that and since I work most of the time with my own hands myself, so I had to make sure that I think through that what will be the experimental outcome and then think about that. Do I have a control for that? So that many times in my brain before I performed the experiment in my brain, I predicted that what will be the outcome, of course you never get the outcome what you expect, but at least you have the control that you can exclude a couple of things and so this is how I function usually in the end of the 20th century, 21st century people did not work like I did alone most of the time.Eric Topol (05:35):No, I see how you described it in the book was just so extraordinary and it really was in keeping with this relentless interrogation and that's what I want to get into is particularly the time when you came to the United States in 1985 and the labs that you worked in predominantly in Philadelphia through that period before leaving Penn to go on to BioNTech. So, you first kind of beached in at Temple University with a monster at least as you portray him in the book. I mean it was nice that he picked you up at the airport, you and your family. How do you say his name? Suhadolnik.Eric Topol (06:31):But not only was the lab kind of infested with cockroaches, but also after working there for a number of years, a few years, you then had gotten an offer to go to Johns Hopkins and when you informed him about that he threatened and did everything he could to ruin your career and get you deported. I mean this was just awful. How did you get through that?Katalin Kariko (06:58):As I mentioned later on, I went back and gave a lecture there and I have to say that I always put positivity in forefront, so I learned a lot from him, and he invited me to America. I was always very grateful, and he was kind, and we did very well, and we did a lot of publication. In one issue of biochemistry, we had three papers and two of them I was the first author, so I worked very hard and so he liked that, and he wanted me to stay there. I just learned that from this Selye book that this is what is given and then what I can do, I cannot change him. I cannot change the situation, how I can get out from it and that's what I focused on, so I am not bitter about him. I liked him and the same for other people. When I get an award, I usually thanks to all of these people who try to make my life miserable. They made me work harder.Eric Topol (08:05):Well, but you were very kind like you said when you went back to Temple many years later to give the lecture because what he did to you, I mean he was so vindictive about you potentially leaving his lab, which he demanded that he be called the boss and he was going to basically, he ruined the Johns Hopkins job. He called them and you were so nice and kind when you went back to give the lecture without saying a negative word about him, so I give you credit, when somebody goes low, you went high, which is nice.Katalin Kariko (08:40):It is important, which I learned from the Selye book, that you don't carry any grudge against anybody because it'll poison you and as Selye also said that when you are very frustrated and very upset, the quickest way you can think about how you can release the stress is revenge. He said, don't do that. It escalate. It hit you back. You have to think about how you can be grateful for the same person you were just ready to take some revenge and that's what you have to practice. Sometimes it is difficult to feel that, but I don't have any bad feeling against my chairman who put my stuff on the hallway.Eric Topol (09:24):Oh yeah, I was going to get to that. So then after a short stint at the Uniformed University of Health Science where you had to drive three hours from Philadelphia to go there and you would sleep on the floor. I mean, I have to say Kati, if I was driving three hours, all I'd be thinking about is how desperate situation I was put in by the prior PI you work with. Any rate, you work there and then finally you got a job with my friend Elliot Barnathan, a cardiologist at University of Pennsylvania. So here you are, you're very interested in mRNA and you hook up with Elliot who's interested in plasminogen activators, and you work in his lab and it's quite a story where one of the students in his lab, David Langer, ratted on you for being blunt about the experiments getting screwed up and then later you wind up working in his lab. Tell me a bit about the times with Elliot because he's a very gracious, I think he was very supportive of your efforts and you got him stimulated about the potential for mRNA, it seems like.Katalin Kariko (10:41):Yes, so I was desperate to be away from my family at Bethesda and try to get back and every day I sent out several applications. This was in 1989, so you had to send letters and then I called up usually the secretaries about what's going on and I called up also a secretary and she said that they were advertised because nobody was good enough. I said, can you ask him to look at again my application? Then half an hour later, Elliot called me back that come and bring your notebook. He wanted to know what kind of experiment I am doing, and he opened when I came a couple of days later and pulled up a northern blot and he said, you have done that? I said, yes, I did. He said, okay, you are hired and so that, because Elliot is just a couple of days younger than me, I convinced him that we should do kind of mRNA research and he agreed, and we did several experiments and he helped me to get all of these experiments ongoing and so it was a very exciting time and I listened. Elliot was there in many awards ceremony including the Nobel Prize. He was my guest because I was very grateful to him because I have to say that he tried to protect me and he get trouble for that because in higher up and when he was looking for tenure, somehow he get R01, several of them, but they did not put him tenure because he was standing up for me and he paid the price.Eric Topol (12:42):Do you think the reason in part that he went to Centocor, a biotech company who I worked with quite extensively was because he stood up for you?Katalin Kariko (12:54):He mentioned to the chairman that he's waiting for whether he will be tenured because he has a job offer with ReoPro what he was doing there in the lab and testing out and the chairman told him that, take that job.Eric Topol (13:11):Yeah. Well, that's interesting. I know Judy Swain very well, and she did everything she could to hurt your career. She demoted you, or actually she wanted you to leave, but you wound up taking a demotion and also Bill Kelley, who I know well, he was the Dean and CEO of the UPenn. Did he ever get any direct involvement with, because much later on he was advocating for your recognition, but during that time, he could have told Judy Swain to stop this, but did he ever get involved, do you know?Katalin Kariko (13:45):I was very low level of nobody, so he would not. It was interesting, we were hired on the same day in 1989. I was first, and I met him, Bill Kelley when the new faculty was hired, and I was so happy because my first project in Hungary was Lesch-Nyhan syndrome, and I know that he discovered the gene, and I was looking up to him very much always.Eric Topol (14:15):Well, you said in the book you were over the moon and I have to say, I worked with him. My first job was at University of Michigan, and I worked with him for six years before he left to go to Penn, and we've been friends all these years, but what happened with Judy Swain, as I read in the book, I got all it bristled. I really was upset to read about that. Anyway, somehow you stayed on, Elliot moved, by the way, during that time with Elliot, you were able to get mRNA to make urokinase plasminogen activator (uPA), and that was a step in the right direction. Before we leave, Elliot, if you had stayed there, if he had gotten tenure, do you think you would've ultimately together made the discovery that you did with Drew Weissman?Katalin Kariko (15:05):I couldn't be tenured because it is a clinical department and I had a PhD and nobody at the clinical department can be, but I could have been research associate professor if I can get a grant and in 1993, I already had submitted grant on circular RNA. When people in these days, they say that, oh, that's a novelty. Oh, in 1994, 1995, I had several grants on circular RNA I submitted for therapeutic purposes, and Elliot helped me with English and computer, everything what he could, but it is important that he was not an immunologist and I needed discovery. When I work with him, I did not realize the mRNA was inflammatory.Eric Topol (16:02):Right, right, exactly. We're going to get to that in a minute. Now, after Elliot left, then you needed someone else to support you, and you wound up with, as I mentioned earlier, David Langer, a neurosurgeon who you previously knew, and he also stood up for you, right?Katalin Kariko (16:18):Yes, yes. So at the beginning, every lab, when you have a medical student, they kind of know everything. One day he just told me that, Kati, I will want to learn everything you know, and I will know everything you know. I said, oh, by that time while you are learning, I learned so much more, you never catch me. That always I had to put him back, but kind of he liked how I worked, I concentrate, I didn't chitchat. Then he was just keep coming back when I was working, even with Elliot and he advanced from medical student to residency and so on, and then when he learned that I have no job because Elliot is leaving, then he went to a Eugene Flamm, the chairman of neurosurgery, and he convinced him that neurosurgery needs molecular biologics. That's what he was arguing and thanks to David and the chairman Eugene Flamm, then for 17 years I had a laboratory, and I had a financial support. Not much.Eric Topol (17:36):Yeah, I mean that was great, but again, you were not getting any real support from the university and then all of a sudden you show up one day and Sean has all your lab, everything that you worked on thrown in the hallway. I mean, that's just incredible story, right? At any rate, you then wound up because you were basically hawking mRNA as a path of science. It's going to be important. By the way, my favorite quote in the book, Kati. The history of science it turns out is filled with stories of very smart people laughing at good ideas. I just love that quote and it kind of exemplifies your career and your success, but you were steadfast and you ran in, of course, the famous story to Drew Weissman at the Xerox machine, and you were hawking trying to get anybody to believe it as you called it, led to the mRNA Believers Club, which only a handful of people in the world ever got there.(18:38):And here you have you take on something that obviously 1960 in your lifetime, early in your lifetime it was discovered, but everyone knew it was unstable, very difficult to work with, very challenging. Of course, you realized that could be beneficial, but you hooked up with Drew the immunologist that you mentioned, and I didn't know by the way, he had type one diabetes. I learned that from your book, and both of you worked so hard and it's just really incredible, but while you're at Penn, the famous or infamous Jesse Gelsinger case and his death occurred and he had the cytokine release syndrome, and you learned from that, right?Katalin Kariko (19:25):Yes. By that time, we also could see that the RNA could be inflammatory, but in his case, of course, because the virus was causing it or what certain condition caused that. I have to say that, people work at gene therapy at Penn and mostly of viral programs. When I mentioned I tried to make gene therapy with mRNA, of course everybody felt sorry for me. Poor Kati, hate RNA, it always degrade, but I have to say the degradation is coming mostly because the molecular biology laboratory, they use plasmid, and when they isolate plasmid, like the QIAGEN kit, they start with the RNAs. They add RNAs because you have to eliminate the bacterial RNA, and they contaminate the whole laboratory, the refrigerator door, the gel opera, everybody's RNAs and so that's what extra problem with working with RNA. So I could make RNA, and so it was working and kind of try to express that and I made a lot of RNA for people probably they still have in their freezer, never tested because I was a pusher.Eric Topol (20:52):Yeah, yeah. Well, what was fascinating of course is you had already learned in mice about this inflammation from putting mRNA in vivo, and then you made the remarkable discovery, which was the paper in Immunity that had been rejected by Nature and many other papers, even though you had been told if you could get a paper in Nature, maybe that could help your career, right. Back in 2021, the journal of Immunity, a very highly regarded self pressed journal, they asked me to comment on your discovery and I wrote, you may have seen it. Of course, several people wrote Tony Fauci and others. What I wrote was what began as a replacement for a uridine base to squash an inflammatory response in mice evolved into the basis for a broad therapeutic platform to fight both communicable and non-communicable diseases in people. So, this discovery that you made in that classic 2005 paper, which is the most important paper ever published in the journal Immunity, was the Toll-like receptor was mediating the inflammation.(22:05):And if you change the uridine to pseudouridine, you could essentially blunt or block the inflammation. This was a seminal discovery that opened up mRNA, but not just for Covid of course, but for so many pathogens and as we'll talk about when we wrap up about all these other things. So when you did this paper and Drew said when it's published, the phones are going to be ring off the hook and no one even acknowledged the paper, right? I mean no one realized how this was one of the most important discoveries in the history of biomedicine, right?Katalin Kariko (22:43):Yes. Especially knowing that Drew is not the person who is exaggerating things. Drew is very modest and would not say such things. I am more like daughter, maybe this happened, but he is not like that and I got the one invitation to go to the Rockefeller University for a meeting, and then I went to Japan from 2005 and it was 2006. Both of them that was invitation, and nothing happened in 2007, 2008 and 2009.Eric Topol (23:24):But those meetings that you went to, they were kind of obscure like microcosm groups. I mean they were relevant to your work, but they didn't realize this is a big deal. I mean, this is like a world changing type of finding because now you could deliver things in cells. Now of course, you worked on this for three decades and the people that think that you can do a flash in the pan science, but at the same time nanoparticles separately were being pursued. How important were the nanoparticles to make for the package for the ultimate success? When Covid hit in late 2019 and now you had been working at BioNTech, how would you rate the importance of the nanoparticles in the story?Katalin Kariko (24:23):For the vaccine it definitely is important because everybody ask the mRNA, if not immunogenic, where do you have the adjuvant? Where is the adjuvant? Then lipid nanoparticle contains an ionizable lipid, which was the adjuvant and why it is important that not the mRNA was inducing the response because the mRNA induced interferon, and if you have interferon, then follicular T-helper cells is not form, and then you get very low amount of antibodies, but if you do not induce interferon, but you induce IS6 and other cytokines is beneficial to have high level of antibodies, so that's what the ionizable lipid was causing and that's the adjuvant in the lipid nanoparticle. Yes, I always emphasize that it is very important and of course when we use the particle that was totalization, then it did not contain ionizable lipid.Eric Topol (25:24):Right? I think that's where there's a misconception because of the Nobel Prize recognition last year, a lot of people think, well, that's all tied only to the Covid vaccine. Actually no, your discovery was much bigger than that and it was applied for the Covid vaccine of course with the nanoparticle package, but yours is as we'll get to in a moment, much, much bigger. You left Penn, that was in 2013, and then you spent several years in Mainz, Germany working with the folks at BioNTech, and you really enjoyed that and they appreciated you then as opposed to what you dealt with at Penn where it was just that you kept hearing about the dollars per net square footage and all these ridiculous things and just extraordinary to go back there. Now I just want to mention about your own gene transfer, your daughter. Your daughter is a two-time gold medal Olympiad in rowing, which is incredible. So she didn't go down the path of science, but she also became a world leader in a field. Is that transmitted on a particular chromosome in the family?Katalin Kariko (26:54):I think that she just could see that you have to focus on something and then you give up many things and you focus and then achieve, and then you get the new goal, set up a new goal. I mean she get somewhat articulated at Penn, she get a master in science and later in UCLA, she get a MBA degree, but 10 years she was like, for me, it is a very boring thing, just rowing going backwards. Isn't that boring every day? She said, no, mom, it is fun. Every practice is different, I enjoy. The minute I don't enjoy, I will stop doing it.Eric Topol (27:36):Yeah. Well it's amazing story about Susan and of course the expansion of your family with a grandchild and everything else that you wrote about in the book. So now let's go to this story, the big story here, which is mRNA. Now you can get into cells, you can deliver just about anything. So now it can be used for genome editing, it can be used for all these different pathogens as vaccines and including not just pathogens but potentially obviously cancer, to rev up the immune system, neurodegenerative disease to prevent these processes and potentially even preventing cancer in a few years ahead. How do you see this platform evolving in the years ahead? You already have seen many vaccines getting approval or under intense study for pathogens, but that just seems like the beginning, right?Katalin Kariko (28:38):Yes, yes. When I came to Penn, the major advantage was going to lectures and when I went to the lectures, I always at the end of it think, mRNA would be good for it. So, I was collecting all of these different fields and then what happens is right now I can see the companies are making those RNA, which I thought that it will be useful and even many, many more things that they are applying and now it is up to those specialists to figure out they don't need me. They need experts on cardiology and other fields and allergies. There is also to tolerate allergies and there are so many fields scientists will be figuring out there what is useful for the mRNA, and they can just order now or create their own RNA and test it out.Eric Topol (29:38):It's actually pretty amazing because I don't know where we'd be right now if you had not been pushing this against all adversity. I mean just being suppressed and being told, put your stuff out in the hallway or being thrown out of the university and not being able to get any grants, which is amazing throughout all this time, not being able to get grants, it tells a big story and that's why the book is so sensational because it's obviously your autobiography, but it tells a story that is so important. It goes back to that memorable quote that I mentioned. You wrap up the book with your message of your life story, and I do want to read a bit of that and then get your reaction. My first message is this, we can do better. I believe we can improve how science has done at academic research institutions.(30:38):For one thing, we might create a clearer distinction between markers of prestige, titles, publication records, number of citations, grant funding, committee appointments, etiquette, dollars per net square footage, and those of quality science. Too often we conflate the two as if there's one in the same, but a person isn't a better scientist because she publishes more or first perhaps, she's holding back from publication because she wants to be absolutely certain of her data. Similarly, the number of citations might have little to do with the value of the paper and more to do with external events. When Drew and I published our landmark Immunity paper and indeed it was, it barely got any notice. It took a pandemic for the world to understand what we've done and why it mattered. I mean, that's profound, Kati, profound.Katalin Kariko (31:42):I have to tell you that what I could see as the science progress. Every scientist starts with understanding something to help the world but somehow they publish because they have something to say, but somehow, it's shifted. Now we want more money, more people would come, those people had to get publication because otherwise they cannot graduate. They need first to author a paper. They publish even when it is not finished or have nothing to say and then somehow the focus is promotion. You are advancing your position, and the tool is doing the experiments. If you see I was demoted, I was pushed out so if my goal would have been to see that I am advancing, then I would give up because that's what the problem is. So that focus is going away from the original thing that we want to understand the science because if you want to understand the science, you are even happy when you can see a publication doing half of that you have done already because you say, I wanted to understand, here's a paper they did, similar thing I did, but the people think, oh my god, my journal paper is out and my promotion is out because they discovered and they published before me, so that's the problem.Eric Topol (33:12):Well, I mean if I made a list of all the adversity that you faced from growing up in the Russian communist run Hungary to coming to the US not even knowing the language and also all the sacrifices you made along the way with your family and when you would go to Bethesda or when you moved to Mainz or I mean all along the whole time, no less what the university of Temple or Penn. I mean the list is very long and somehow you prevailed above all that, which is just so startling but another thing I want to just get into briefly, as you know, this has been a shocking counter movement to the vaccines and giving ridiculously the mRNA as a bad name. In the book, you kind of had a way to foreshadow this because back in the 1968 pandemic that you obviously experienced, here you talked about that.(34:30):You said we restricted our movement, limiting our contact with others. We scrubbed, we disinfected. I suppose the party encouraged this, but nobody complained about government overreach. This was a virus. It had no ideology, no political agenda. If we weren't careful, it would spread, then we would all suffer. These were just the facts. That's how viruses work. So how come we still don't know that? That was 1968 in Hungary and here we're go in the United States, and we have a huge movement, anti-vaccine, anti mRNA, Covid vaccines, and it's very worrisome because all the great science is threatened by this misinformation and disinformation. What are your thoughts about that?Katalin Kariko (35:27):Yes, I heard that viruses, they love democrats because everybody can do whatever they want, whereas in other countries give an order, everybody has to have vaccine and then that's different, but yes, I understand that the novelty the people were always against, even when X-ray was introduced, people thought that people will look through my clothes and seeing me naked because they take part of the truth and they don't say, maybe through the flesh is going through and I can see somebody's bone or something. Then they distort, and they create a fear and if you make fear, then you can control like Lord of the Flies, somebody you are afraid of and then you can control and you can be afraid of the virus or you can be afraid of the vaccine. Then that's what I don't understand exactly true said that when they investigated those who are spreading most of these news about against the vaccine is they are selling some kind of products benefiting just like a hundred years ago, those who were afraid that they can see through their clothes some they start to sell X-ray resistant underwear.(36:57):Of course people, they made money on the people's fear. I don't know that's how to fight it or I think that the honesty when the scientists would say that, listen, we don't know today how it spread. This is how we suggest, be afraid, wash everything. Oh no, we know that it is in the air so that okay, you don't have to wash your clothes when you go out and come back but don't go to crowded places. In politics it's not working because it is like wishy-washy. Yesterday you said something and today, because we learn, they have to understand this is a science process constantly correcting. In politician, I know everything, this is how to do, they want to reflect this confidence. That's what it is and that's why politics everywhere mixed up with this. Some leaders want to reflect this confidence and they do things which helps the virus to spread.Eric Topol (38:11):Right. Well, I'm glad to get your perspective because obviously when you work so hard throughout your career and then you see the backlash, that's unwarranted. It's always good to be circumspect of course, but to say that this was done in a flash in the pan and it's never really, it's gene therapy and it's changing your DNA, I mean it's a lot of crazy things that of course that you brought out in the book as well. Now before wrapping up, you wrote the book before you were awarded the Nobel Prize and this recognition, you and Drew of course became fantastic, so richly deserved, but many things occurred and I wanted to ask you. For example, you did your PhD and your postdoc at the University of Szeged in Hungary, and you went back there, and I think you were celebrated in your university, perhaps the first Nobel laureate. I don't know, I would imagine perhaps. The second, oh okay but also the last thing that was recognized in the book it was a much different thing. It was like the Time 100 recognition but now that you have had many of these unanticipated awards, what are your thoughts about that? I mean, it is wonderful to get recognized by the university that you trained and the people that you grew up with.(39:53):Has this changed your life or is it really very much the same as it was?Katalin Kariko (40:00):My life is very much the same as it was. I am living in the same house. We moved in 1989 and okay, last year I get a new car. Up until then, I never had, only just some beat-up, last year I purchased my first new car but that's luxury when you are 68 years old, you could afford. Everything was a surprise because 40 years I never get any award and the first award I get in 2021. I tried to articulate to more people, life as a scientist is similar to mine. They are immigrant, they are not recognized and I try to tell them just not to focus something like the university is not grateful. Who is the university? Just they are walls. What administrator would tap your shoulder. You have to know that what you are doing is important and if you get pushed around, you always have to do what Selye said, figure out what you can do. Always that, not what they should do. The agency should give me the money, the boss, the superior should help me. No, I cannot make other people to do. I have to figure out what I can do. I can write better and better and rewrite, generate more data for a submitted grant application and always, that's why all of these naysayers made me better because I'm not focused on revenge or anger, but always, how can I be better.Eric Topol (41:53):So that gets me to what you do next. I know you're an avid reader. I know you read so much about science and your field and broader of course I take it you still are doing that, but what's in the next chapter for you? I can't imagine you're ever going to rest.Katalin Kariko (42:16):No, no. I will be six feet under when I can rest, I realize now. It is just that you are on a different field, and you understand like nucleotides, how naturally you make RNA, what is the transporters, what is happening in the mitochondria, different things that iron sulfur clusters and then you start to investigate like three months I was just reading one topic. I didn't even know about it or how in my life I was reading so many things. I realized there are so many diseases, I understand what is the reason, people don't. When I was at Penn I went to different people, professors about my idea for certain diseases but I was nobody and nobody listened. Now, I'm somebody. I have to be very careful because I say a name of the disease people will line up here and say, don't talk to Eric. Go and do something, help us and so that's what I try to help. I think that I understand certain disease, which is so enigmatic and nobody has a clue and maybe I have a solution for that. That's what I try to do now.Eric Topol (43:38):Do you ever go to Penn? Do you ever go to work in there?Katalin Kariko (43:44):No, I don't. When you are forced to retire, and I knew that they would throw me out because it was 2012, right before Christmas I was told that get out because you didn't get the 2012. Last time I submitted an mRNA for stroke therapy. Still very valid and good idea but anyway, I knew that I will be pushed out, but I don't have grudge, even the chairman. How can I expect the neurosurgeon who is doing the operation he just can see that I did not get the funding and those people who make the decision that my proposal is not good, they are expert. He's not an expert. He just can see that this is what the expert said. I talk to him, I don't blame anything.Eric Topol (44:37):Good for you. I mean I think it's much easier to be vindictive and you have to have the philosophy that you have, which is not to hold any grudges after all that has basically been done to you by many people along the way and I think we've covered that. I know this is a very different interview perhaps than many others that you've had. I didn't bring up the teddy bear and I didn't bring up a lot of things that others have brought up because they've already been covered. I wanted to get into what you had to endure, what you had to do to persevere and how it has changed the life science and medicine forever and now, still today, the mRNA package will be improved. I mean we've already learned, for example, the change of the two proline substitution that Andrew Ward at my place, along with Jason McLellan and others to make it to better immune response. It can be improved with a 6-P proline substitution. We can beat nature just like you did with the uridine substitution and the nanoparticles will improve and this whole package has got an incredible future but it's thanks to you, if it induced massive inflammation, it never would've been possible.Katalin Kariko (46:02):Yes, I always said that hundreds and thousands of scientists, every time I thanks them, those people, even not with us, I was reading their papers and it all contributed to this development and learning. So, I am not thinking that I was many, many other people together, we did that.Eric Topol (46:30):Well, I am so indebted to you as everyone who understands sciences, and it's of course a bigger story than mRNA. It's what you endured and how you persevered and against all odds, I mean truly against all odds, so thank you. Did I miss anything that I should have asked you about?Katalin Kariko (46:51):No. I have to say the book came out and now I can see in different social media that how other scientists get inspired. There was one who said that she quit doing PhD and she read my book and she cried, she laughed, and she went back. She realized that there is more to it because so many is expecting to do some work and then there will be some rewards. The rewards is this is not a short distance. This is a marathon to be scientist and you have to see the goals and it will one day and you might not the one that cross first the finish line, but you are helping others. That's what is important and that's what I am glad that I work with this and write this book so that other scientists more can associate because they feel the same way, that they are not appreciated. Things are not going as expected and then they might be inspired not to give up and that's what is also an important message.Eric Topol (48:11):Well, that's why I love the book because it is so inspirational and it will make people cry. It will make people commit to science or appreciate it more than ever. I don't know if you saw it, but I put it as my 10 favorite books for 2023 and indeed, I could have been the most favorite in many respects. So I hope more people listening or watching the video will read the book because it has a lot. I'm so glad you wrote it, Kati, because if we only knew you from papers and Nobel Prize, you wouldn't know the true story. We wouldn't know really what your life has been like over these many decades. So, thank you for that as well and thank you from the life science, the medical community, and for everyone, for all that you've done to change the future and the current state of medicine.Katalin Kariko (49:10):Yeah, thank you very much asking and I might add to the book that the book is published in many different languages is coming Italian and French, German, Thai, Japanese, Chinese. So scientists all over the world can read their native language and maybe they will be inspired.Eric Topol (49:28):Oh, I have no question about that. It's a story that it should be a movie so that the people that won't read the book will hopefully watch the movie. Has there already been a plan for that?Katalin Kariko (49:40):There was, but I don't think that you know they have this strike during the summer, and I don't know where it ends.Eric Topol (49:52):I wouldn't be surprised if it gets done in the future and I hope they'll consult with you, not just read the book and it'll be interesting who they get to play you in the movie, but thank you so much, Kati. What a joy and I look forward to future visits with you. Get full access to Ground Truths at erictopol.substack.com/subscribe

Jonathan Howard is a neurologist and psychiatrist who practices at NYU-Bellevue and posts frequently on Science Based Medicine.Transcript, unedited, with links to audioEric Topol (00:05):Well, hello, Eric Topol with Ground Truths and I'm really pleased to have the chance to talk with Jonathan Howard today, who is a neurologist and psychiatrist at NYU at Bellevue and has written quite an amazing book published a few months months ago called We Want Them Infected, so welcome Jonathan.Jonathan Howard (00:27):Hey, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.Eric Topol (00:30):Yeah, I mean, there's so much to talk about because we're still in the throes of the pandemic with this current wave at least by wastewater levels and no reason to think it isn't by infections at least the second largest in the pandemic course. I guess I want to start off first with you being into the neuropsychiatric world. How did you become, obviously caring for patients with Covid, but how did you decide to become a Covidologist?Jonathan Howard (00:59):Well, I developed a strong interest in the anti-vaccine movement of all things about a decade ago when a doctor who I trained with here at NYU in Bellevue morphed into one of the country's biggest anti-vaccine doctors a woman by the name of Dr. Kelly Brogan. I knew her well and we were friends; She was smart and after she left NYU in Bellevue, she became one of the country's most outspoken anti-vaccine doctors and really started leaving off the wall things that germ theory didn't exist, that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. When Covid struck, she felt that SARS-CoV-2 was not killing people because she doesn't believe any virus kills people and so I became very fascinated about how smart people can believe strange, incorrect things and I dedicated myself to learning everything that I could about the anti-vaccine movement. In 2018, I wrote a book chapter on the anti-vaccine movement with law professor Dorit Reiss.(02:01):And so when the pandemic came around, I was really prepared for all of their arguments, but I got two very important things wrong. I thought the anti-vaccine movement would shrink. I was wrong about that and I was also really caught off guard by the fact that a lot of mainstream physicians started to parrot pandemic anti-vaccine talking points. So all of the stuff that I'd heard about measles and the HPV vaccine, these are benign viruses, the vaccines weren't tested, blah, blah, blah. I started hearing from professors at Stanford, Harvard, UCSF, Johns Hopkins, all about Covid and the Covid vaccine.Eric Topol (02:40):Yeah, we're going to get to some of the leading institutions and individuals within them and how they were part of this, and surprisingly too, of course. Before we do that in the title of your book, We Want Them Infected, it seems to bring in particularly the Great Barrington Declaration that is just protect the vulnerable elderly and don't worry about the rest. Can you restate that declaration and whether that's a core part of what you were writing about?Jonathan Howard (03:21):Yeah, the title of the book is to be taken literally. It comes from a quote by Dr. Paul Alexander, who was an epidemiologist in the Trump administration and he said in July 4th, 2020, before anyone had been vaccinated, infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle age with no conditions, et cetera, have zero to little risk so we want to use them to develop herd, we want them infected. This was formalized in the Great Barrington Declaration, which was written by three doctors, our epidemiologist, none of whom cared for Covid patients, Jay Bhattacharya at Stanford, Martin Kulldorf who at the time was at Harvard, and Sunetra Gupta who is at Oxford. If I could state their plan in the most generous terms, it would be the following that Covid is much more dangerous for certain people, but we can relatively easily identify older people and people with underlying conditions.(04:19):It's much more benign for a healthy 10-year-old, for example and their idea was that you could separate these two groups, the vulnerable and the not vulnerable. If the not vulnerable people were allowed to catch the virus develop natural immunity that would create herd immunity. They said that this would occur in three to six months and in that time, once herd immunity had been achieved, the vulnerable people who have been in theory sheltering at home are in otherwise safe places could reenter society. So it was really the best of both worlds because lives would be saved and schools would be open, the economy would be open. It sounded very good on paper, kind of like my idea of stopping crime by locking up all the bad guys. What could go wrong? It was a very short document. It took about maybe an hour to write.(05:17):I imagine there were some nefarious forces behind it. One of the main instigators of it was a man by the name of Jeffrey Tucker, who sounds like a cartoon villain and he worked at the, I forget, is the American Enterprise Research Institute. It was some right-wing think tank and he is a literally pro child labor. He wrote an article in 2016 called Let the Kids Work, which suggested that children drop out of school to work at Walmart and Chick-fil-A I'm not making that up and he's overtly pro child smoking. He feels that children, teenagers should smoke because it's cool and then they can quit in their twenties before there are any bad harms from it. Needless to say, the Great Barrington's premises that one infection led to permanent immunity didn't really work out so well, but they were very influential. They had already met with President Trump in August of 2020 and the day after their Great Barrington Declaration was signed, they were invited to the White House. This was October 5th, 2020 to meet with Secretary Human Health and Secretary Services, Alex Azar, and they are advisors to Ron DeSantis. They became mini celebrities over the course of the pandemic and it was a very pro infectious movement. As I said, the title of the book, We Want Them Infected, and they did.Eric Topol (06:42):Right. In fact, I debated Martin Kulldorf, one of the three principals of the Great Barrington Declaration. It was interesting because if you go back to that debate we brought out, at least I tried to highlight the many flaws in this. You've mentioned at least one major flaw, which was to this virus. There's not a long-term immunity built by infections. It's just, as we say with vaccines the immunity for neutralizing antibody production and protection from infections and severe Covid is limited duration for four to six months, and at least for the antibodies and maybe the T-cell immunity is longer, but that doesn't necessarily kick in and quickly. So that was one major flaw, but there are many others, so maybe you could just take that apart further. For example, I like your analogy to lock up all the bad guys, but compartmentalizing people is not so easy in life and I think this is a significant concern of the idea that is, while you indicated there may be some merits if things went as planned, but what else was a flaw of that argument or proposition?Jonathan Howard (08:11):So yeah, this could be a 10-hour conversation and I think importantly, we don't have to speak hypothetically here. A lot of defenders of the Great Barrington Declaration will say, oh, we never tried it, but they promised that herd immunity would arrive in three to six months after lockdowns ended. So we don't have to speak theoretically about what would've happened had we done it. Lockdowns ended a while ago and we don't have herd immunity. They were very clear on this. Dr. Kulldorf tweeted in December 2020 that if we use focus protection, the pandemic will be over in three to six months. So, what could have gone wrong if about 250 million unvaccinated Americans contracted Covid simultaneously in October and November of 2020? A lot of things, as we said, they dichotomized people into vulnerable and not vulnerable, but of course it exists on this. The only bad outcome they recognized was death.(09:11):They felt that either you died or you had the sniffle for a few days and you emerged unscathed. Separating vulnerable people from not vulnerable people is a lot easier than it sounds and I think by way of comparison, look at the mRNA vaccine trials. You can read their protocols and the protocols for these trials were 300-400 pages of dense policies and procedures. The Great Barrington Declaration, if you go to their frequently asked questions section, they made some suggestions, which sound great, like older people should have food delivered at home during times of high transmission, but setting up a national or even statewide food delivery program, that's a lot harder than it sounds. When asked about that later, Dr. Bhattacharya has said they could have used DoorDash, for example. So it was just very clear that no serious thought went into this because it was really an unactionable thing.(10:21):It's not as if public health officials had billions of dollars at their disposal and they weren't many dictators. They couldn't set up home food delivery programs overnight like they suggested and two months after the Great Barrington Declaration was published, vaccines became available so it became obsolete. Not that vaccines have turned out to be the perfect panacea that we had hoped for, unfortunately, but the idea that young people should continue to try to get natural low immunity in favor instead of vaccination became at that point obscene, but they still are anti-vaccine for young people and for children, which I find despicable at this point.Eric Topol (11:07):Right, the data is unequivocal that there's benefit across the board. In fact, just last week in JAMA two senior people at FDA, Peter Marks and Robert Califf published the graphs of how across all ages there was reduction in mortality with the vaccines. That gets us to, as you say now into the vaccine era of Covid and one of the things that the anti-vax community jumped on was when we moved from Delta to Omicron where previous Omicron, there was exceptionally good protection from infections, 95%. It was rare for people to get to have spread with the up-to-date vaccine with the third original strain booster. But with Omicron that fell apart and if infections were breakthroughs were exceedingly common, this led to tremendous fodder for the anti-vax saying the vaccines don't work beyond the false claims that they were, whether they're killing people or gene therapy or microchips or all these other crazy notions. But can you talk to that? Because if you still protect against deaths, Long Covid and hospitalizations, that seems to be pretty important. It's disappointing, and obviously we need ways to prevent infections or otherwise we don't really have an effective exit strategy for the pandemic. This was used and still is used today as a reason that vaccines are worthless if indeed, they're not even dangerous.Jonathan Howard (12:55):The vaccines when they were initially came out, as we all know, were 95% effective, but the vaccines were brand new and the virus was brand new. All of this was less than a year old and what's interesting is, unfortunately, I realized this after I wrote my book, but I published an article about this on Science-Based Medicine where I've been blogging throughout the pandemic. So, if anyone can go there, I wrote an article on October 1st, 2023, called over-hyping vaccines it wasn't pro-vaccine it was pro stop worrying about Covid. So almost all of the doctors that I mentioned in this book vastly overhyped vaccines as soon as they came out saying they were 100% effective against severe disease, that they completely blocked transmission and just really overselling the vaccine saying that they're going to definitely end the pandemic and mocking anyone who disagreed. Now these doctors are saying, oh, there's a lack of trust in the medical community.(13:57):We need to rebuild trust without holding a mirror to their statements. Dr. Bhattacharya, for example, participated in a round table discussion with Governor Ron DeSantis at the very end of July. On August 1st, 2021, Ron DeSantis tweeted out a quote by Dr. Bhattacharya that said, we have protected the vulnerable by vaccinating the older population. We have provided them with enormous protection against severe disease and death. That's why you see, even as the cases have risen in Sweden, blah, blah, blah, we've protected the vulnerable. The number of deaths have not risen proportionally and this was right when the Delta wave was taking off within. This is the one thing that was interesting, this pandemic, because you had people make prediction and within days their predictions were falsified. That was a tragic thing to see, but that's 20,000 Floridians or some number like that died during the Delta wave in Florida. More Floridians died after Dr. Bhattacharya said the vulnerable have been protected than before that. So I think there was a lot of over-hyping in the vaccines, and I get where this came from. We as doctors, we wanted everyone to get the vaccines. We wanted to encourage everyone to get the vaccine. I probably did this myself at some times, but I do think that that was a problem, but the same doctors who are now saying that the vaccines were overhyped and were often guilty of them.Eric Topol (15:35):Right. Well, I mean, I think as you said, we didn't know the virus is going to evolve with this Omicron event with well over 35 new mutations in the spike protein, no less other parts of the virus and then of course, recently we saw another superimposed Omicron event with this BA.2.86 or JN.1 variant. The problem with this of the vaccine takedown, and as you well know because you've been studying this for more than Covid, is that it extended to many other parts of the pandemic, such as masks, such as there's no such thing as Long Covid or it's exceptionally rare and it bleeds through other areas. So could you comment about that? That is the anti-science. It's not just anti-vax.Jonathan Howard (16:30):No, you're absolutely right. I don't talk a lot about Long Covid just because I think a lot of other people do a much better job of that. I have a hard time grasping the numbers myself. You'll read one study, it's one in a thousand, you'll read another study. Oh, 50% of people have Long Covid. My attitude towards Long Covid is I don't know exactly how many people have it, but some people are severely affected by it. We have a lot to learn about it, this is a brand new virus. We are going to be learning about this the rest of our lives, especially the consequences of repeat infections. A baby born today is going to be infected, what? 10 times by the time they go away to college. Who knows what are going to be the consequences of that? What does this mean for autoimmunity?(17:15):So my attitude with Long Covid and the long-term consequences are we just have to be very humble about this and again, all of the doctors who I discussed were very arrogant about this. They were writing in as early as March 2020 that school closures may prevent children from developing herd immunity. They spoke about infections as being beneficial for children, but you're right as well that these doctors cast doubt on all in any measures that were used to stop the virus masks, testing, ventilation, lockdowns. One of their core objections wasn't that they didn't feel that these were ineffective necessarily. They objected to lockdowns precisely because they stopped the spread of the virus, so you can read some articles from Scott Atlas in April 2020. He wrote several articles in the Hill, that publication saying it's time to stop the panic, et cetera. If people were as if panic was a bad reaction to Covid, as morgues were overflowing with dead bodies, panic was the right action. He said that the lockdowns have stopped Covid from spreading and stopped natural immunity from developing, which prevents us from reaching herd immunity. So again, these guys and the authors of the Great Barrington Declaration objected to lockdown saying they just postponed the inevitable, which there may be some truth to that. Probably everyone here has been infected by Covid at least one time, but postponing the inevitable, that's what I go to work every day trying to do.Eric Topol (19:04):And you could say a lot for putting off an infection, of course, as long as possible. And of course, even trying to put it off forever, because as you know very well, as we went on in the pandemic, we learned a lot then there was treatments such as paxlovid and far better treatments that were available for severe Covid, many randomized trials to help prevent deaths for people who were of high risk. The other thing that I guess I can't emphasize enough, and you had a whole chapter in the book, which is about children, kids, they're not so intrinsically protected. They can die, they can be hospitalized and there have been many deaths among them from Covid, even those who don't have coexisting conditions. So maybe you could talk a little bit about that, the flaw in that it's only people of advanced age or immunocompromised and that young people are bulletproof. That doesn't seem to be the case in reviewing all the data throughout the pandemic.Jonathan Howard (20:12):I mean, just to reemphasize the point that you made, that someone who gets Covid today, especially if they're vaccinated and boosted is in much better shape than someone who gets Covid, who got Covid in March or April 2020. The same way I hope someone who gets Covid in the year 2030 is going to be in better shape than we are today. But yes, back to pediatric Covid, the risk to any individual child is very small. So my kids have it, my nieces and nephews had it. I wasn't particularly worried and they fortunately had very mild disease, but there's 73 million children in the United States, and when you multiply a rare event by 73 million children, the numbers began to add up. So far around 2,000 children have died of Covid, which is comparable to what measles used to do before. In the pre pandemic days, hundreds of thousands of children have been hospitalized, and depending on the variant, about a third have needed ICU care.(21:15):And five to 10% have been intubated. Some children have had strokes, some children have had amputations. So it's not as bad, it's not as bad as car deaths. It's not as bad as bullets, but we don't have vaccines for those conditions and the vaccine is not a panacea for children. Some vaccinated children have died, but it's like wearing a seatbelt. You can die in a car crash wearing a seatbelt, but your odds are greatly enhanced if you are wearing a seatbelt, but all of these doctors who in 2020 state to their name, to the idea that we could get rid of Covid by spreading Covid be the purposeful infection of children, were unwilling to recognize that the vaccine can help them. They use many different techniques to minimize the benefits of the vaccine. One was to say that it never demonstrated efficacy against hospitalizations and deaths in randomized controlled trials, which is true in as far as it goes because it is very hard to detect rare events in randomized controlled trials unless you do a study of 200 to 300,000 children as was done with the polio vaccine.(22:36):And they suggested that this should have been done, that we should have re-enrolled hundreds of thousands of children in these trials, which would've taken, I don't know, five, ten years. So that's number one. We now have about 30 observational studies, and they all show the same. And by the way, there were six randomized controlled trials of the vaccine in children involving about 25,000 children. So they're not small trial. As I said, there are about 30 trials from around the world showing that the vaccine observational trials, so observational studies, I should say, showing that the vaccine is not perfect, but it's very good at preventing rare but serious side effects or serious harms of Covid. As you know, there was just a large study out of Penn a couple days ago showing that the vaccine during the Delta in the Omicron wave was extremely effective at preventing children from entering the ICU.(23:36):They also treated rare mild vaccine side effects as a fate worse than death and I mean that very literally, the vaccine in young men can cause myocarditis, which is mild in about 90-95% of people with it. I'm unaware of a single American who has been known to have died from vaccine myocarditis. These doctors made dozens of YouTube videos and editorials and commentaries all saying what a catastrophe vaccine myocarditis was. How dare you minimize vaccine myocarditis. When they also wrote editorials saying, young people should not fear death from Covid, and they spoke about death from Covid as milder than vaccine myocarditis when talking about deaths from Covid, they would say, oh, it's less than suicide. More children drown every year. They would just all sorts of crazy double standards.Eric Topol (24:38):Right. One of the things that's extraordinary in the book, Jonathan, is that you have, it isn't like you're just writing text about it. You have all the quotes, you have all the tweets, you have all the articles. I don't know how you did that. I mean, were you keeping an active list of everything that was, I mean, I liken it to remember during in the Trump administration, there was a guy in CNN, I'm trying to remember his name.Jonathan Howard (25:09):Dale something.Eric Topol (25:10):Dale, yeah. And he had a fact check every day, and he kept track of everything. That was his job full time, but it seemed like you were the only one that has this record of every statement written on the topics that we're discussing. How did you do it?Jonathan Howard (25:35):Well, I did it through the blog at Science-Based Medicine is that I'd been collecting these statements starting in May 2021, and it just grew out of that. And so basically, the book is sort of a reorganization, everything that I've been writing on that blog and I will say that the fact that I have so many direct quotes has made it impossible for these doctors to refute me, because if I'm wrong, then they're right. If they're right, then we'll have herd immunity in three to six months once the lockdowns are lifted, reinfections are very rare. Variants are nothing to worry about and so they have to make that case. What they've tried to do is they've tried to do some revisionist history. So, for example, Dr. Jerome Adams, who was Trump's surgeon general, and turned out to be very reasonable guy, recently posted on Twitter, I'll still call it that, that Scott Atlas wanted to, and he was right, wanted to infect people to achieve herd immunity.(26:49):And Dr. Jay Bhattacharya and Dr. Vinay Prasad, who's a misinformation oncologist at UCSF, we're a gas. They said, oh no, he didn't want to purposely infect children. We just wanted schools open. The harms of school closures were just so great. So they cast themselves as these very benevolent, we were just looking out for the children. We never wanted them infected. I never said that, I never thought that, but all you have to do is just read their own words. The ones who have responded to me have responded just by childish insults, really just calling me names. I'm a schmuck, I'm a grifter, I'm a B-list Covid influencer. None of them have ever tried to engage with any of the content and all that would require them to do is stand up for their own words, which they won't.Eric Topol (27:46):Alright. Now, we touched on it early in our conversation, but what was one of the surprising things on the one hand there are anti-vaxxers, like RFK Jr. and people, as you mentioned, the person that you knew at NYU who went on, but then there were these surprise people who were at top academic medical centers in the country that went into misinformation campaigns, whether it was deliberate because it was associated with all sorts of attention, or whether it was misinterpretation of data. I don't understand, but can you speculate what's going on there and whether or not the universities involved should have been somehow engaging with these individuals?Jonathan Howard (28:39):Yeah, so it's tough for me to understand their motives. I do think that what made them more dangerous than someone like Kelly Brogan or RFK Jr. By the way, these two worlds, which I kind of treated as separate, they're beginning to merge with people like Joseph Ladapo, for example. So they're not as separate as they once were and Dr. Vinay Prasad has praised RFK Jr. saying he would destroy Dr. Peter Hotez, a hero of vaccines in the debate. I mean, it's crazy, crazy stuff up, but I think the guys who I write about were more dangerous in that they mixed good advice with bad advice. So they would say very sensible things like, yes, you have to protect grandma. Grandma has to get vaccinated with bad advice, that the vaccine is more dangerous than Covid for children, for example. They also are very good, eloquent speakers who can speak in scientific jargon and use the language of evidence-based medicine, someone like Kelly Brogan, for example, would say that she uses intuition and higher ways of knowing, and crystals and tarot cards, these guys don't do that.(29:51):If we were to discuss our general approach to medicine, it would be no different than ours, than anyone's. They would say, we try to use science, evidence, data, logic, and reason to reach the best conclusions. So I think that that made them more dangerous. Again, what do I think their motivations were? I think a lot of it is some of these guys are natural born contrarians, which means that they just have to be a little bit different, that when everyone else is saying X, they got to say Y and that served them well in the beginning, in most of their careers and we need people like that In medicine, I would say that Nobel Prize winner, Katalin Kariko, I am probably butchering her name, but the Hungarian woman who developed the mRNA vaccines maybe fits that profile and so we need people like that in medicine.(30:39):I also think they had a hard time admitting air when they drastically underestimated Covid at the start of the pandemic, and all of them did predicting 10,000 people would die predicting that it would be less severe than the flu. They had a hard time saying, oops, I was wrong. Some doctors did that. Famously, Dr. Paul Offit, another vaccine hero, said at the beginning of March, I believe, or early February 2020, that he thought the flu was going to be more dangerous than Covid and when he turned out to be wrong, he said, oops, I was wrong. You might as well make an ass of yourself in front of a million people. But I think these guys couldn't admit air and once they had committed themselves to a policy, the purposeful mass infection of unvaccinated youth, it was hard to backtrack from that. What are you going to say?(31:26):Oops, I was wrong, and young people suffered and died because of what I said. No, I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus so I think it was a lot of that. In terms of what universities should do, they're at a bind because if they speak out against these people, they're experts at weaponizing their delusions of self-persecution. I've been silenced, I've been censored. We need, even though, like I said, they became mini celebrities and met with Trump and DeSantis and advised Governor Glenn Youngkin and they were all over the news. They're huge social media presences. They were everywhere, but where I was in a hospital with Covid patient. So I think that if universities speak out, they run the risk of the Streisand effect. It's called amplifying people inadvertently and allowing them to claim their precious victim status, but if they don't speak out, which they really haven't done, they run the risk of what they're saying is this person carries the aperture. Am I pronouncing that word of our university, that we feel that this person is competent to speak on our behalf which is a problem.Eric Topol (32:38):No, I think we've just seen that, of course, with the three institutions that the presidents were brought in about a whole different matter, and how they didn't necessarily speak out as they could have a totally different matter, of course. This is a real tough one as you've outlined as to whether leaders of university, for example, at Stanford, the faculty did stand up and say, we're not supporting Scott Atlas or this or that. This didn't really happen at other universities that we've touched on at least. So the individuals now going forward here, there's a much bigger story than just Covid, and it's the anti-science, anti-vax movement, which is very dangerous. I think most people who are reasonable reviewing the data would say vaccines are just extraordinary for preserving health, but we're seeing now this movement has gotten legs, it's gotten funding, it's organized, and you're well familiar with Peter Hotez's book who gets through some of that substantiates where this has been with autism and where it's going.(33:59):So one of the problems is that there hasn't been much in the way of any antidote, any aggressive response to basically you have the corrections, the real time, the hall of shame, if you will, of this misinformation to have fact checkers, to get the story straight and perhaps not governmental sponsored because that's also an area of uncertainty of trust in public health, but some type of agency that could take on a corrective effort for the public to know what's fact and what's not. What are your thoughts of how we can get out of this mess?Jonathan Howard (34:46):Oh, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I think skepticism about the Covid vaccines, we're already seeing this as going to bleed into other vaccines. States are doing everything they can to get rid of what were once considered normal vaccine mandates. So I don't know how we're going to get out of it and I think any government agency designed to combat misinformation would become itself as, first of all, you got to be a little bit careful. We don't know who's going to be running that in 2025, right? I mean, Joseph Ladapo might be in charge of the government industry of misinformation depending on who wins election next. So we got to be careful with handing government that sort of, but I do think that more doctors need to do what I have done, what Dr. Peter Hotez has done, what you've done, what my mentor(35:37):Dr. David Gorski, who runs Science-Based Medicine and Steve Novella have done, which is to just speak out and to call out doctors. When we say, when we hear this misinformation, I think a lot of doctors are what we call shruggy, meaning they sort of shrug it off like, that person's kind of wacky. What are you going to do about it? But I think that we need to not tolerate it. We don't have to give them the victim status by saying, oh, you should be fired, you should be censored, this sort of thing, but just when these doctors make absurd statements by saying that the flu is more dangerous for children than Covid, we need to say no. Over the past three years, Covid has killed 2,000 children. The flu has killed about 300. 2,000 is bigger than 300. If I told you in 2019 virus A kills 2,000 people, virus B kills 300, you would not have a hard time answering that question and if you are trying to tell me now that the virus that killed 200 children is worse than the one that killed 2,000, that's absurd and we just shouldn't tolerate that sort of nonsense. I think that's the attitude that we need to have.Eric Topol (36:51):Yeah, I mean, I think it's very scary where we're headed, and it's ironic because we're seeing vaccine progression to pathogens never seen before, whether it's malaria, obviously, we have RSV vaccines and so many more that are coming. In addition, these same vaccines on the platform, whether it be mRNA and nanoparticles or proteins or whatnot, are being directed now to help amp up the immune response to cancer or to create vaccines that could help achieve tolerance to the immune system, an area that you work in multiple sclerosis and many other neurologic type one diabetes and on and on autoimmune conditions. So if we don't get this right, that if vaccines are trashed, we got some problems going forward.Jonathan Howard (37:46):We shouldn't call those vaccine. That's my suggestion number one. I'm half joking about that. We shouldn't. Sorry to cut you off, but yeah, we do have problems going forward, and like I said, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better and look at the Covid booster vaccination rates. I don't know what they are off the top of my head, but they're in the garbage.Eric Topol (38:08):19% in all Americans and we're one of the few countries that has it widely available for all adults, and only 35% in people 70 years and older, where there's a spike in hospitalizations right now that's comparable to the other waves of BA.2 and BA.5, and it's still rising. So yeah, the booster uptake has been very poor, especially in people at high risk. Absolutely right.Jonathan Howard (38:37):I think people have been influenced by the anti-vaccine movement, even when they don't recognize it. I think it's kind of permeated the culture because people have a very different attitude towards vaccines than they have to almost anything else in their life. I wouldn't say, for example, I don't need to go to the dentist again, because I went in 2020 and 2021 and 2022, I wouldn't say I don't need to go to the gym anymore because I went 10 times last year, for example. We recognize that there are certain things that we have to do for our health that have to be done on a frequent basis, and it's too bad that vaccination doesn't fit that bill. Again, I think one reason for this is that the vaccines were overhyped at the start of the pandemic, or at least in 2021, they were pitched as this panacea. This we're definitely going to solve things, and in retrospect, that was a mistake. We needed to proceed with a little bit more humility just about a brain. This is everyone's first pandemic, right?Eric Topol (39:35):Yeah. I mean, I think the unpredictability of the virus's evolution, which was very slow at first, and then of course it accelerated, was unforeseen and changed the entire profile of the protection forwarded by vaccines. I guess to wrap it up, Jonathan, I want to thank you for all the hard work you did to put this book together and your efforts to try to stand up for the evidence, the science that supports vaccines and the things that we can do to help preserve human health in a pandemic and beyond. I mean, in your practice of medicine that goes well, different and beyond a pathogen in caring for patients with neurologic conditions. I also, I guess would say I'm more hopeful that we will have oral nasal vaccines that do block infections, maybe just for a few months per spray or per inhalation and more durable vaccines that don't only last four to six months if we put our efforts and resources and priorities into it.(40:44):But I'm also worried that, as you say, the V word is a bad word now to many people. So I don't know that we've come up with any solution here outside of your idea of not calling vaccines, but it seems to me we have to be much more direct at dealing with the miss and disinformation movements that have grown so profoundly in the last few years and taking advantage of course of the pandemic fatigue and all the holes in our current tools that obviously there are no things that are fully protected, whether it's a vaccine or N95 mask or you name it. Any last comments about where are you headed? Are you still going to track this or are you had enough of it, or what's your next chapter in your work?Jonathan Howard (41:42):I'm going to still continue to write at Science-Based Medicine on this theme because I think that it's important as doctors that we regulate our own profession and that we hold our public communications to high standards, and I include myself in that. So in my book, I include several really stupid things that I said, and that might be the subject of a future article of dumb things I said, because I did say some dumb things. So I think we have to hold ourselves to a high standard when communicating with the public in a pandemic. So that's what I'm going to continue to do. I'm going to continue to do what I always do at Bellevue psych and NYU treat MS patients around on the inpatient service at Bellevue Hospital wouldn't trade it for the world.Eric Topol (42:29):Well, I want to thank you, and Bellevue is a tough place to work. I know it well, and that in itself says a lot about you. You're a person who I had not met before, only having read your work, but I don't detect one scintilla of hubris. You come across as a genuine person who is really interested in facts and evidence. I want to thank you for all of your work and look forward to future conversation.Jonathan Howard (42:58):Well, thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it. It means a lot, and I appreciate all you've done on your Twitter feed. Whenever there's a new story. I get it from you first, and so I appreciate it.Eric Topol (43:08):Thanks so much, Jonathan.Commentary on this book's significance by Gregg Gonsalves, Associate Professor, Yale School of Public HealthOne of the untold stories of the COVID pandemic in the US is the role of medical and public health professionals in spreading disinformation, pushing for policies that exacerbate the virus' spread, and drive people away from important interventions, particularly vaccines, which blunt the deadly effects of SARSCOV2. Because of professional courtesy, solidarity or just sheer cowardice, many inside the professions have refused to take on these frauds, egomaniacs, purveyors of sickness and suffering in white coats. Jonathan Howard's book We Want Them Infected, though, names names. In painstaking detail, he builds an indictment of these men and women who have blood on their hands, abusing the trust of millions to peddle lies and falsehoods. This book is one for the ages, making it hard to sweep the complicity of these individuals with the virus under the carpet, leaving a record for the future, a cautionary tale for all of us. Get full access to Ground Truths at erictopol.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Medical Roundup #1, published by Zvi on January 17, 2024 on LessWrong. Saving up medical and health related stories from several months allowed for much better organizing of them, so I am happy I split these off. I will still post anything more urgent on a faster basis. There's lots of things here that are fascinating and potentially very important, but I've had to prioritize and focus elsewhere, so I hope others pick up various torches. Vaccination Ho! We have a new malaria vaccine. That's great. WHO thinks this is not an especially urgent opportunity, or any kind of 'emergency' and so wants to wait for months before actually putting shots into arms. So what if we also see reports like 'cuts infant deaths by 13%'? WHO doing WHO things, WHO Delenda Est and all that. What can we do about this? Also, EA and everyone else who works in global health needs to do a complete post-mortem of how this was allowed to take so long, and why they couldn't or didn't do more to speed things along. There are in particular claims that the 2015-2019 delay was due to lack of funding, despite a malaria vaccine being an Open Phil priority. Saloni Dattani, Rachel Glennerster and Siddhartha Haria write about the long road for Works in Progress. They recommend future use of advance market commitments, which seems like a no brainer first step. We also have an FDA approved vaccine for chikungunya. Oh, and also we invented a vaccine for cancer, a huge boost to melanoma treatment. Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman win the Nobel Prize for mRNA vaccine technology. Rarely are such decisions this easy. Worth remembering that, in addition to denying me admission despite my status as a legacy, the University of Pennsylvania also refused to allow Kariko a tenure track position, calling her 'not of faculty quality,' and laughed at her leaving for BioNTech, especially when they refer to this as 'Penn's historic research team.' Did you also know that Katalin's advisor threatened to have her deported if she switched labs, and attempted to follow through on that threat? I also need to note the deep disappointment in Elon Musk, who even a few months ago was continuing to throw shade on the Covid vaccines. And what do we do more generally about the fact that there are quite a lot of takes that one has reason to be nervous to say out loud, seem likely to be true, and also are endorsed by the majority of the population? When we discovered all the vaccines. Progress continues. We need to go faster. Reflections on what happened with medical start-up Alvea. They proved you could move much faster on vaccine development than anyone would admit, but then found that there was insufficient commercial or philanthropic demand for doing so to make it worth everyone's time, so they wound down. As an individual and as a civilization, you get what you pay for. Potential Progress Researchers discover what they call an on/off switch for breast cancer. Not clear yet how to use this to help patients. London hospital uses competent execution on basic 1950s operations management, increases surgical efficiency by a factor of about five. Teams similar to a Formula 1 pit crew cut sterilization times from 40 minutes to 2. One room does anesthesia on the next patient while the other operates on the current one. There seems to be no reason this could not be implemented everywhere, other than lack of will? Dementia rates down 13% over the past 25 years, for unclear reasons. Sarah Constantin explores possibilities for cognitive enhancement. We have not yet tried many of the things one would try. We found a way to suppress specific immune reactions, rather than having to suppress immune reactions in general, opening up the way to potentially fully curing a whole host of autoimmune disorders. Yes, in mice, of course it's in mice, so don't ge...

Link to original articleWelcome to The Nonlinear Library, where we use Text-to-Speech software to convert the best writing from the Rationalist and EA communities into audio. This is: Medical Roundup #1, published by Zvi on January 17, 2024 on LessWrong. Saving up medical and health related stories from several months allowed for much better organizing of them, so I am happy I split these off. I will still post anything more urgent on a faster basis. There's lots of things here that are fascinating and potentially very important, but I've had to prioritize and focus elsewhere, so I hope others pick up various torches. Vaccination Ho! We have a new malaria vaccine. That's great. WHO thinks this is not an especially urgent opportunity, or any kind of 'emergency' and so wants to wait for months before actually putting shots into arms. So what if we also see reports like 'cuts infant deaths by 13%'? WHO doing WHO things, WHO Delenda Est and all that. What can we do about this? Also, EA and everyone else who works in global health needs to do a complete post-mortem of how this was allowed to take so long, and why they couldn't or didn't do more to speed things along. There are in particular claims that the 2015-2019 delay was due to lack of funding, despite a malaria vaccine being an Open Phil priority. Saloni Dattani, Rachel Glennerster and Siddhartha Haria write about the long road for Works in Progress. They recommend future use of advance market commitments, which seems like a no brainer first step. We also have an FDA approved vaccine for chikungunya. Oh, and also we invented a vaccine for cancer, a huge boost to melanoma treatment. Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman win the Nobel Prize for mRNA vaccine technology. Rarely are such decisions this easy. Worth remembering that, in addition to denying me admission despite my status as a legacy, the University of Pennsylvania also refused to allow Kariko a tenure track position, calling her 'not of faculty quality,' and laughed at her leaving for BioNTech, especially when they refer to this as 'Penn's historic research team.' Did you also know that Katalin's advisor threatened to have her deported if she switched labs, and attempted to follow through on that threat? I also need to note the deep disappointment in Elon Musk, who even a few months ago was continuing to throw shade on the Covid vaccines. And what do we do more generally about the fact that there are quite a lot of takes that one has reason to be nervous to say out loud, seem likely to be true, and also are endorsed by the majority of the population? When we discovered all the vaccines. Progress continues. We need to go faster. Reflections on what happened with medical start-up Alvea. They proved you could move much faster on vaccine development than anyone would admit, but then found that there was insufficient commercial or philanthropic demand for doing so to make it worth everyone's time, so they wound down. As an individual and as a civilization, you get what you pay for. Potential Progress Researchers discover what they call an on/off switch for breast cancer. Not clear yet how to use this to help patients. London hospital uses competent execution on basic 1950s operations management, increases surgical efficiency by a factor of about five. Teams similar to a Formula 1 pit crew cut sterilization times from 40 minutes to 2. One room does anesthesia on the next patient while the other operates on the current one. There seems to be no reason this could not be implemented everywhere, other than lack of will? Dementia rates down 13% over the past 25 years, for unclear reasons. Sarah Constantin explores possibilities for cognitive enhancement. We have not yet tried many of the things one would try. We found a way to suppress specific immune reactions, rather than having to suppress immune reactions in general, opening up the way to potentially fully curing a whole host of autoimmune disorders. Yes, in mice, of course it's in mice, so don't ge...

That's how the UN Secretary-General has described the situation in Gaza. As tens of thousands of people flee south, the IDF allowed another evacuation corridor for six hours and agreed to continue daily pauses in areas of northern Gaza, according to the White House. Correspondents Jomana Karadsheh and Nada Bashir report on the increasing humanitarian crisis.  Also on today's show: Sasha Dovzhyk, Editor, London Ukrainian Review; Susanne Nossel, CEO, PEN America; Katalin Kariko, Winner, 2023 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine / Author, “Breaking Through”  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jusqu'où nous entraînera l'ARN Messager ?Révélés par la pandémie de Covid, couronnés par le prix Nobel, les vaccins à ARN sont le fruit de dizaines d'années de recherche et d'engagement semé d'embûches et le plus souvent dans l'ombre. Dans les coulisses d'une révolution scientifique, qui sont les aventuriers de l'ARN Messager ? Partons dans les coulisses d'une révolution scientifique, sur les traces des aventuriers de l'ARN Messager... Et de tous les chercheuses et chercheurs qui, envers et contre tous, souvent dans l'ombre et parfois le mépris, ont œuvré à la compréhension de cette fameuse molécule d'ARN Messager. Cette molécule a permis 60 ans après sa découverte par les Français Jacob, Monod et lvoff, Prix Nobel de Médecine en 1965, la mise au point exceptionnellement rapide d'un vaccin inespéré contre le virus de l'épidémie de Covid-19…Une aventure scientifique, médicale et humaine, qui n'a pas été un long fleuve tranquille mais bien une épopée semée d'embûches, d'engagement et de découragement...Avec- Raphaël Hitier, réalisateur, pour son documentaire Les aventuriers de l'ARN Messager, coulisses d'une révolution scientifique (sur Arte jusqu'au 5 décembre 2023) - Frédéric Martinon, chercheur à l'Inserm (il est le premier chercheur français à avoir utilisé un liposome renfermant un ARNm codant pour le virus de la grippe).Le Prix Nobel de médecine 2023 a été décerné à Katalin Kariko et Drew Weissman pour leurs travaux sur l'ARN Messager à l'origine des premiers vaccins utilisant cette technologie.

Katalin Kariko is a scientist. Some people say she saved the world. Maybe she saved your life! Katalin Kariko是一位科學家。有人說她拯救了世界，也許她還救了你一命。 Vaccines help stop people from getting sick. Dr. Kariko had an idea to make better vaccines. She worked on her idea for many years. 疫苗可以防止人類生病。 Kariko博士想出辦法，讓疫苗更加有效。 Then Dr. Kariko worked with Dr. Drew Weissman. They worked in different ways. He said, "from A to B you zigzag, zigzag, zigzag, zigzag! I [go]… straight." Kariko 博士跟Drew Weissman博士合作。他說Kariko會來來回回的思考，而他是直線前進。 Here, "zigzag" means she studied many kinds of new ideas and information. And she had questions: What's this? How does this work? What's that? What does that do? Can it help my idea? Can we try this? Kariko研究很多新的想法跟資訊，也提出一大堆問題。 Maybe zigzagging helped! Dr. Kariko and Dr. Weissman found how to make better vaccines using her ideas. 或許這種Z型的思考方式，讓他們找出更好的疫苗。 COVID-19 came. The world needed vaccines! Their work helped scientists make two vaccines fast! It can make other vaccines too. 新冠肺炎的到來，讓全世界都需要疫苗，而這兩人的研究加快了疫苗的生產。 Every year, some people get a Nobel Prize. They did great things for the world. This year, Dr. Kariko and Dr. Weissman got the Nobel Prize for Medicine! They made her idea work and saved the world! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Vocabulary 這兩位博士發明了新型的肺炎疫苗，榮獲今年的諾貝爾醫學獎。 1. sick 生病的 When I was a child, I really wanted to be a scientist.我小時候很想當科學家。 Yeah? Because you liked the sound of it? 因為科學家這個詞很好聽? Because scientists can help sick people. 因為他們可以幫助生病的人。 2. can 能夠 And they understand space and stars. 他們還能懂太空和星星。 They can do so many things. 他們可以做好多事。 3. then 然後 But then you decided to study literature. 但是之後你決定讀文學。 Yeah, I found literature much more interesting.對，我覺得文學有趣多了。 4. life 生命、人生 It deals with life.它跟人生有關。 Science deals with life, too. 科學也跟人生有關。 來一起讀今天的單字。 sick生病的 can能夠 then然後 life生命、人生 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quiz 1. What did Dr. Kariko do for many years? a. Saved the world b. Worked on her idea c. Kept getting sick 2. What did Dr. Kariko do when she zigzagged? a. Studied many things b. Went straight c. Took medicine 3. When COVID-19 came, what did the world need fast? a. A Nobel Prize b. Vaccines c. Questions Answers: 1. b 2. a 3. b

We heard reports last night from Israel that a massacre had taken place at the weekend in Kibbutz Kfar Aza. Women and children were among the dead and we were told that beheadings had happened too. A group of journalists were taken to the scene by Israeli soldiers. Emma is joined by Bel Trew, Chief International Correspondent for the Independent, who was one of the journalists. And, focusing on women's lives in the region, Emma speaks to Adele Raemer, who survived an attack on her home, and we hear extracts from journalist Plestia Alaqad in Gaza, who sent her audio diary to the BBC. Dr Katalin Kariko's work has had a major impact on people's lives around the world. She tells Emma how the mRNA technology she was working on for decades helped the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech covid vaccines come to be. Now Dr Kariko has been awarded a Nobel Prize. She's a biochemist, Professor at the University of Szeged in Hungary and along with her colleague Professor Drew Weissman, who is at the University of Pennsylvania, she won the prize for the category of Physiology or Medicine. It's one of the things we're most embarrassed to talk about – pain when having sex. This is something that Professor Katy Vincent, academic gynaecologist, and Dr Lydia Coxon, researcher in Pain in Women, are hoping to change. They join Emma alongside BBC presenter Sophie Law to talk about an open panel they held to try and get women to talk about their pelvic pain, and address the taboo around talking about periods, sex and women's pelvic health. Since 2011, October 11 has been declared by the UN as International Day of the Girl Child to recognise girls' rights and the unique challenges girls face around the world. This year Women of the World (WOW) Festival has launched the Young Leaders Directory, inspiring activists from across the world campaigning on topics such as education, period poverty and climate justice. Emma is joined by two young women, Marwa Shinwari from Afghanistan and Ain Husniza from Malaysia to discuss their passions and hopes for the future. Presented by Emma Barnett Producer: Louise Corley

#488 Hungarian-American Super Hero!

An mRNA Advance Wins A Nobel PrizeThis week, a handful of scientists scattered around the world got surprise telephone calls announcing that they will be receiving Nobel Prizes. On Monday, the prize in medicine or physiology was announced. It went to Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman, scientists who developed the modifications to mRNA that made the biomolecule a viable strategy for creating vaccines. On Tuesday, the Nobel in physics went to Pierre Agostini, Ferenc Krausz and Anne L'Huillier, who created techniques to illuminate the movement of electrons using attosecond-length pulses of light. And on Wednesday  Moungi G. Bawendi, Louis E. Brus and Alexei I. Ekimov learned that they had won the prize in chemistry for their work with tiny bits of semiconductor material known as quantum dots.Umair Irfan, staff writer at Vox, joins guest host Flora Lichtman to talk about the winners and their advances, and to share other stories from the week in science, including an FCC fine for a satellite company's space junk, concerns over drought in the Amazon rainforest, and a tale of fighting a coral-threatening algal bloom using hungry crabs. Venus Lightning Debate Gets LitVenus is an inhospitable place. The longest any spacecraft has survived on the planet's surface is thought to be around two hours. It's blazing hot. It has bone-crushing atmospheric pressure and clouds made of sulfuric acid. But is there lightning?Flybys of Venus have detected electromagnetic signals in the radio spectrum called “whistler waves” that, on Earth, are associated with lightning strikes. So some experts speculated that Venus might have lightning too—perhaps a lot of lightning. But there was no hard proof. The question of Venusian lightning has been a topic of electric debate among scientists for some 40 years.A study published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters last month used data from the Parker Solar Probe to argue that the whistler waves around Venus may have a different cause. Research scientist Dr. Harriet George and space plasma physicist Dr. David Malaspina of the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics at the University of Colorado, Boulder join guest host Flora Lichtman to talk about the finding, and what it could tell us about planets elsewhere in the galaxy.   To stay updated on all-things-science, sign up for Science Friday's newsletters.Transcripts for each segment will be available the week after the show airs on sciencefriday.com. 

Dans ce nouveau numéro d'Accents du monde, vitrine de l'une des grandes forces de notre radio RFI, nous revenons sur une semaine de Prix Nobels, notamment le prix Nobel de médecine attribué à la chercheuse hongroise Katalin Kariko et à son collègue américain Drew Weissman. Leurs travaux ont permis le développement de vaccins à ARN messager, décisifs dans la lutte contre le Covid-19.  Avec - Anya Stroganova au sujet d'Evguenia Kara-Murza, la femme de Vladimir Kara-Murza opposant politique russe condamné à 25 ans de prison et envoyé en Sibérie- Isabelle Martinetti à propos du Festival de photojournalisme Visa pour l'image- Asbel Lopez de la rédaction en espagnol concernant les inquiétudes du président de la Commission d'enquête sur l'Ukraine des Nations unies.

Jesse and Brittany discuss Jesse's recent trip to the White House, listener emails and voicemails related to our previous episodes and bonus episodes, as well as some possible technical issues, Donald Trump's appearance in court all week for his fraud trial in New York, some reflection on the media's recent coverage of Trump, the race to elect a new Speaker of the House, recent appearances from Governor Spencer Cox and Rep. Nancy Pelosi reflecting on the state of the Republican party, and Takin' Care of Biz featuring COVID vaccine scientists and now Nobel Prize winners Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman.SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: http://www.TeamDollemore.comNEW MERCH AVAILABLE AT: http://www.dollemore.infoJoin the private Facebook listener group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1770575259637583Send a text or voicemail of fewer than three minutes to (657) 464-7609.Show Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/IDoubtPodcastShow Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/IDoubtItPodcastJesse on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/dollemoreBrittany on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/brittanyepageBuy a T-Shirt, Hoodie, Mug, or Tote: https://www.dollemore.infoPatreon: http://www.dollemore.com/patreonPayPal: http://www.dollemore.com/paypalAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Odgovor na vprašanje »Ali so mRNK cepiva učinkovita in varna?« nam razkrije tudi pogled skozi elektronski mikroskop Po svetu smo porabili že več kot 13 milijard odmerkov cepiv proti covidu; tako klasičnih, kot novih mRNK cepiv. Zdaj je objavljenih že veliko študij in podatkov, zato strokovnjaki že lahko odgovorijo, ali so mRNK cepiva učinkovita in varna? Zakaj niso resnične trditve, da je več ljudi umrlo zaradi cepljenja kot zaradi covida? Nobelov odbor je s podelitvijo letošnje Nobelove nagrade za medicino pozornost javnosti usmeril na mRNK cepiva. Prestižno priznanje si bosta razdelila madžarska biokemičarka dr. Katalin Kariko in ameriški imunolog dr. Drew Weissman. Izvrstna raziskovalca sta odkrila, kako in kdaj molekule mRNK ravno prav spodbudijo človekov imunski sistem. S tem sta prispevala k razvoju cepiv proti covidu in raku. »Nisva presenečena!« Tako sta se na novico o letošnjih Nobelovih nagrajencih za medicino odzvala biologinja prof. dr. Mateja Erdani Kreft (Medicinska fakulteta v Ljubljani) in biokemik prof. dr. Roman Jerala (Kemijski inštitut). Za Ultrazvok je z njima govoril Iztok Konc. Foto: Avtorja: Resman Rus K in Kolenc M, Inštitut za mikrobiologijo in imunologijo, Medicinska fakulteta v Ljubljani. Opis: Virus SARS-CoV-2, posneta z transmisijskim elektronskim mikroskopom JEOL TEM-1400 Plus; negativno kontrastiranje 2% FWK; povečava 100 000x in 80 000x.

Cinq anthropologues, dont la Québécoise Michèle Sirois, ont été déprogrammés d'un colloque d'anthropologie et le parcours de Katalin Kariko, prix Nobel de médecine. La rencontre Rioux-Durocher avec Christian Rioux correspondant à Paris pour le quotidien Le Devoir.Pour de l'information concernant l'utilisation de vos données personnelles - https://omnystudio.com/policies/listener/fr

Partner programu: E2V ⁠⁠⁠https://e2v.pl/⁠⁠⁠ (1:03) Ministrowie 27 państw rozmawiali w Kijowie o ewentualnym przyjęciu Ukrainy do Unii Europejskiej(3:47) Serbskie wojsko jest przygotowane do wkroczenia na terytorium Kosowa(5:51) Stany Zjednoczone są zaniepokojone skalą korupcji na Ukrainie(7:08) Drew Weissman i Katalin Kariko otrzymali nagrodę Nobla za szczepionki mRNA(8:42) Turcja w odpowiedzi na atak terrorystyczny zaatakowała bazy Partii Pracujących Kurdystanu(9:54) Drużyna piłkarska z Arabii Saudyjskiej odmówiła gry w Iranie z powodów politycznych Informacje przygotował Maurycy Mietelski. Nadzór redakcyjny – Igor Janke. Czyta Michał Ziomek. Wspieraj Układ Otwarty: ⁠https://patronite.pl/igorjanke

Karl Jansson pratar om Nobelpriset i medicin eller fysiologi som delades ut igår. Det gick forskarna Katalin Kariko och Drew Weissman som utvecklat mRNA-tekniken som bland annat använts för att ta fram covidvaccin.Och så pratar han om stormen kring Riksidrottsförbundets ordförande Karl Erik Nilsson.Linnea Rönnqvist tar upp påståendet att partyknarkarna driver gängkriminaliteten, som enligt flera forskare inte stämmer.Och så kommer reporter Anders Abrahamsson och pratar om den hemliga Linbusamfundet i Bohuslän.Dessutom: Zlatans best of-intervju med Piers Morgan, Hasse Aro på elsparkcykel och 104-årig fallskärmshoppare. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

ONU aprova envio de missão internacional para combater a violência das gangues armadas e proteger a infraestrutura do Haiti. E mais: - Kevin McCarthy acusado de fazer acordo secreto com Joe Biden para aprovar o projeto que evitou a paralisação do orçamento do país - 27 ministros e representantes de Relações Exteriores da Europa se encontraram em Kiev - Rússia estaria preparando teste de mísseis de cruzeiro, à propulsão nuclear - Começou hoje referendo histórico que vai decidir se a Constituição deve ser modificada para inscrever os direitos dos indígenas - Prêmio Nobel de Medicina foi dado a Katalin Kariko e Drew Weissman Acompanhe nosso podcast na Orelo https://orelo.cc/podcast/64b040d5e705db487c3b7c59?forum=false --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/voltaaomundoem180s/message

The Nobel Assembly awarded Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman for their discoveries that enabled the development of effective mRNA vaccines against COVID-19.

Prof Elmi Muller is Dean of Stellenbosch University's Faculty of Medicine joins Pippa to discuss the announcement that The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for 2023 has been awarded to Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman for their discoveries concerning nucleoside base modifications that enabled the development of effective mRNA vaccines against Covid-19.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Generalni državni tožilec Drago Šketa je zaradi vožnje pod vplivom alkohola odstopil s položaja. Kot je pojasnil, je v soboto o tem obvestil ministrico za pravosodje, danes zjutraj pa je pisno podal odstopno izjavo. Kot je povedal v izjavi za javnost, je odločitev o odstopu sprejel, ker bi navedene okoliščine lahko škodile ugledu državnotožilske organizacije. Ob tem se je opravičil vsem, ki jih je s takim dejanjem prizadel. Drugi poudarki oddaje: - Za nekaj več kot 65 tisoč študentk in študentov se je danes začelo novo študijsko leto, medtem vodstva javnih univerz opozarjajo na vse bolj občutno pomanjkanje kadrov. - Načelnik generalštaba srbske vojske zanika navedbe o kopičenju vojske in nameri vdora na Kosovo. - Nobelova nagrada za medicino madžarski biokemičarki Katalin Kariko in ameriškemu imunologu Drewju Weissmanu za razvoj cepiv proti covidu in raku.

Amit Katwala discusses with Ivan six things which should be better known. Amit Katwala is a journalist and author, based in London. He is a writer and editor at WIRED magazine, and has written three books. The latest, Tremors in the Blood: Murder, Obsession and the Birth of the Lie Detector blends true crime, science and history in 1920s San Francisco and 1930s Chicago. He also co-hosts the All Consuming podcast on BBC Radio 4. Planet X https://www.wired.co.uk/article/search-for-planet-nine-planet-x-solar-system The truth about the lie detector https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/720693/tremors-in-the-blood-by-amit-katwala/ Katalin Kariko https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mrna-coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-biontech Fritesauce https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/desert-island-dips/id1303459662 WIRED magazine https://www.wired.co.uk/subscribe Pre-Columbian America https://www.amazon.co.uk/1491-Revelations-Americas-Columbus-Vintage/dp/1400032059 Blocksite https://blocksite.co/ This podcast is powered by ZenCast.fm

Today we are talking to Drew Weissman. Drew is the Roberts Family Professor in Vaccine Research at Perelman School of Medicine and Director of the Penn Institute for RNA Innovation at the University of Pennsylvania. Drew has spent his career working on RNA biology and vaccine development. He, along with his colleague Katalin Kariko, have been pivotal in the development of mRNA vaccines most notably the COVID-19 vaccines developed by BioNTech/Pfizer and Moderna. Drew received his MD/PhD from Boston University in 1987, following which he did a residency at Beth Israel and followship at the NIH under Anthony Fauci. He has received numerous awards including the Lasker-DeBakey Clinical Medical Research Award and Rosenstiel Award.Today we discuss Drew's career trajectory, mRNA biology and vaccine development.

“Redemption! I was grabbing the air, I got so excited I was afraid I might die or something.”   Dr. Katalin Karikó Biochemist who pioneered mRNA, the technology behind the successful COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.    The Artwork: Ink drawing on a map of Philadelphia, PA. The University of Pennsylvania where she did much of her research is located near her chin.    The Story: Doubted and then demoted by academic leaders, denied grants, and derided by her peers, Katalin Kariko's journey from disregarded scholar to world savior was a four-decade struggle. Introduced to the concept of messenger RNA (mRNA) during her undergraduate, she quickly saw the possibilities and pursued a PHD in the field, beginning in 1978. Ultimately, her research served as the basis of the Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna coronavirus vaccines.  In 1985, Karikó left her native Hungary with her husband, two-year-old daughter, and $1,200 sewn into teddy bear (proceeds from selling the family car on the black market). She continued her research at Temple University before moving to the University of Pennsylvania in 1989. All the while, rejected grant applications piled up on Karikó's desk. She said her mRNA research was “too novel” to get funded.   By 1995, her bosses at the university were growing impatient with the lack of funding and offered a humiliating choice: leave or be demoted to adjunct from her prestigious tenure-track position. With the demotion came a substantial pay cut. The same week, she was diagnosed with cancer.  “Usually, at that point, people just say ‘goodbye' and leave because it's so horrible,” she says. But Karikó  wasn't like usual people. Undeterred by the setbacks, she doggedly continued in her research. One year, she recalled realizing in May that she had worked every day that year, including New Year's Day, even sleeping in the office sometimes.  A few years later, a chance meeting with Drew Weissman at a photocopier changed the course of her career. A respected immunologist, Weissman was intrigued with Karikó's research. More important, he had the funding to finance her experiments in his lab. This partnership “gave me optimism and kept me going,” says Karikó. “My salary was lower than the tech who worked next to me, but Drew was supportive and that's what I concentrated on.” In 2005, Karikó finally had a breakthrough. On paper, mRNA was simple, in reality injecting synthetic mRNA often led to disastrous immune responses from subjects. Karikó  and Weissman figured out how to sneak mRNA into cells without triggering the alarm bells. This paved the way for vaccines and other future therapies with mRNA.  Despite this success, the University of Pennsylvania told Karikó in 2013 she was “not of faculty quality.” She left to become Senior Vice President at BioNTech, a nascent German biotech firm. “When I told them I was leaving, they laughed at me and said, ‘BioNTech doesn't even have a website.'”  Her career's research has since served as the basis of the highly effective COVID-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.  She screamed, “Redemption!” upon hearing the news the vaccine was effective. “I was grabbing the air, I got so excited I was afraid I might die or something. I never doubted it would work.” She celebrated by eating a bag of chocolate-covered peanuts. “   Background on mRNA: The focus of Karikó's career was mRNA, a single-stranded messenger molecule that delivers instructions from the DNA in the cell's nucleus to the protein-making centers called ribosomes. Without mRNA, DNA would be useless, leading some to call mRNA the “software of life.”  MRNA offers a way for the body to heal itself and its promise will likely be realized in ways far beyond the current COVID-19 vaccine application. With the COVID-19 vaccine, the mRNA tells cells to create harmless spike proteins to prepare the immune system to fight against coronavirus' spikes. Other possibilities include other vaccines, treating cancer, and diseases like cystic fibrosis.   Music: This episode contains music by Geovane Bruno, Coma Media, Hot_Music, Oleksandr Savochka, and 24414830.    Sources: BioNTech scientist Katalin Karikó risked her career to develop mRNA vaccines. Americans will start getting her coronavirus shot on Monday. (2020, December 12). Business Insider. https://www.businessinsider.com/mrna-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-2020-12?international=true&r=US&IR=T  Corbley, A. (2021, February 1). She was Demoted, Doubted and Rejected But Now Her Work is the Basis of the Covid-19 Vaccine. Good News Network. https://www.goodnewsnetwork.org/katalin-kariko-hungarian-chemist-developed-covid-19-mrna-vaccine/  Cox, D. (2020, December 2). How mRNA went from a scientific backwater to a pandemic crusher. WIRED UK. https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mrna-coronavirus-vaccine-pfizer-biontech  Garde, D., & Globe, J. S. —. B. (2021, January 7). The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race. STAT. https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/  Kolata, G. (2021, September 24). Kati Kariko Helped Shield the World From the Coronavirus. The New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/08/health/coronavirus-mrna-kariko.html  Kollewe, J. (2020, November 23). Covid vaccine technology pioneer: “I never doubted it would work.” The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/nov/21/covid-vaccine-technology-pioneer-i-never-doubted-it-would-work  Newey, S., & Nuki, P. (2020, December 2). “Redemption”: How a scientist's unwavering belief in mRNA gave the world a Covid-19 vaccine. The Telegraph. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/redemption-one-scientists-unwavering-belief-mrna-gave-world/ Wikipedia contributors. (2022, July 22). Katalin Karikó. Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katalin_Karik%C3%B3

In this episode, we'll be talking about mRNA vaccines and Dr Katalin Kariko, the great scientist behind this discovery. For many years, Dr Kariko's work was dismissed and considered a waste of time. When she started working on mRNA, no one paid attention to her research. But of course, no one could imagine then, that one day it would help fight the biggest pandemic of our lifetimes. Dr Kariko never gave up on her obsession with mRNA, and we are oh so glad she didn't! More info about mRNA What does mRNA stand for? Messenger ribonucleic acid. What is mRNA? What does mNRA do? A mRNA vaccine is a type of vaccine that activates the adaptive immune system using messenger RNA1 whose nucleotide sequence encodes a protein that is identical or similar to a pathogen or tumor antigen. About the mRNA vaccine mechanism How mRNA COVID-19 vaccines work? This protein is produced directly in the target cells by translation of the messenger RNA contained in the vaccine, and is recognized by the body's immune system, which responds by producing antibodies to the pathogen or cancer that is being countered. Messenger RNA can be delivered directly in solution, or encapsulated (in) lipid nanoparticles; RNA viruses are also being studied as possible vectors for RNA vaccines. This type of vaccine has some advantages over DNA vaccines in terms of production, patient delivery, and safety of use and has shown promising effects in human clinical trials. Science for Care is a podcast by HealthTech for Care , a non profit organization designed to support and promote access to care for all. If you enjoy our show, please mention it to your friends, family and co-workers, and leave ratings and reviews on your favorite listening platform. Production: MedShake Studio Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Wes learns the other Banana Boyz about Dr. Katalin Kariko, who spent decades researching mRNA, facing setbacks both personal and professional. Despite this, she persevered, and her research made COVID Vaccines possible. Because of her, science is already using mRNA to explore a number of exciting new treatments for a universal coranavirus vaccine, sickle cell immunity, a cure for malaria, and even vaccines for peanut allergies! And mRNA is now seriously being considered as a potential treatment for pretty much every known illness.   SOURCES: Dr. Katalin Kariko on Wikipedia   The story of mRNA: How a once-dismissed idea became a leading technology in the Covid vaccine race (STAT Magazine)   Kati Kariko Helped Shield the World From the Coronavirus (NY Times)   The Unlikely Pioneer Behind mRNA Vaccines (The Daily Podcast)   How COVID-19 mRNA Vaccines Work (YouTube)   The Story Behind mRNA COVID Vaccines: Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman (YouTube)

This week on CUTalks, we are speaking to Dr. Katalin Kariko, a biochemist who specializes in mRNA research. Katalin's ground-breaking technology has saved millions of lives during the pandemic as her research formed the basis of the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines. We spoke about the COVID-19 pandemic, mRNA vaccine safety and hesitations around vaccination as well as some of the entrepreneurial ventures that Katalin had embarked on. To find out more about CUTEC, visit www.cutec.io/ This podcast was produced by Carl Homer, Cambridge TV.

We discuss TIME magazine's person of the year, heroes of the year and entertainer of the year. TIME Heroes of 2021 include: Kizzmekia Corbett, Barney Graham, Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman for exposing the inner workings of how viruses survive and thrive which helped make the COVID-19 vaccines possible. Plus, we get into who we think should be considered for Entertainer of the Year and the use of prosthetics in HBO's White Lotus.

Listen to the Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/podcasts/the-daily/mrna-vaccines-katalin-kariko.htmlLong read: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/how-mrna-technology-could-change-world/618431/

Quand le 9 novembre 2020, le laboratoire pharmaceutique américain Pfizer annonce avoir trouvé un vaccin efficace à 90% contre le virus du Covid-19, une majorité du grand public entend pour la première fois le nom de la technique novatrice qu'ils ont utilisée pour ce traitement : l'ARN messager. Mais la découverte de cette molécule n'est pas si récente. Son histoire commence au début des années 1960 avec les découvertes étonnantes de deux chercheurs français. Elle continue dans les années 1980 en Hongrie, avec Katalin Kariko, une jeune chercheuse qui se passionne pour cette technologie à une époque où personne ne s'y intéresse et qui s'exile aux Etats-Unis pour pouvoir poursuivre ses recherches. Code source vous raconte la saga de l'ARN messager avec Julien Solonel, journaliste au Parisien Week-End et Elsa Mari, journaliste santé au Parisien. Ecoutez Code source sur toutes les plateformes audio : Apple Podcast (iPhone, iPad), Google Podcast (Android), Podcast Addict ou Castbox, Deezer, Spotify.Direction de la rédaction : Pierre Chausse - Rédacteur en chef : Jules Lavie - Reporter : Ambre Rosala - Présentation Thibault Lambert - Production : Clara Garnier-Amouroux et Sarah Hamny - Réalisation et mixage : Julien Montcouquiol - Musiques : François Clos, Audio Network, Epidemic Sound - Identité graphique : Upian - Archives : Europe 1, INA, BFM TV, Le Figaro. Voir Acast.com/privacy pour les informations sur la vie privée et l'opt-out.

Themen der Sendung: UN-Generaldebatte: US-Präsident Biden mahnt zu gemeinschaftlichem Handeln, Die Meinung, Maskengegner tötet Tankstellenmitarbeiter in Idar-Oberstein, Renommierter Chemiepreis für Katalin Kariko, Özlem Türeci und Ugur Sahin für die Entwicklung des mRNA-Vakzins gegen Corona, Wahlkampfendspurt in Norddeutschland, Weitere Nachrichten im Überblick, Neuverfilmung von Stefan Zweigs "Schachnovelle" in den Kinos, Das Wetter

Themen der Sendung: UN-Generaldebatte: US-Präsident Biden mahnt zu gemeinschaftlichem Handeln, Die Meinung, Maskengegner tötet Tankstellenmitarbeiter in Idar-Oberstein, Renommierter Chemiepreis für Katalin Kariko, Özlem Türeci und Ugur Sahin für die Entwicklung des mRNA-Vakzins gegen Corona, Wahlkampfendspurt in Norddeutschland, Weitere Nachrichten im Überblick, Neuverfilmung von Stefan Zweigs "Schachnovelle" in den Kinos, Das Wetter

La mise au point rapide du vaccin anti-Covid à base d'une technologie nouvelle dite "ARN messager" est une incroyable aventure permise par la détermination d'une chercheuse hongroise, Katalin Kariko. Dans cet épisode, je propose de tirer cinq leçons d'innovation de cette aventure pour notre pays.

Our choices of brilliant podcasts to listen to are:  The Turning: The Sisters Who Left  Thousands of women gave up everything to follow Mother Teresa, joining her Catholic order, the Missionaries of Charity. This is their story. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-turning-the-sisters-who-left/id1566966691 The Munk Debates - Be it resolved, the preponderance of evidence suggests COVID-19 leaked from a laboratory, with guests Dr. Steven Quay, Dr. Daniel Griffinhttps://munkdebates.com/podcast/covid-19-originsVic's other recommendations, covering the same topic, but from every side of the debate,  were:  The Guardian, Today in FocusThe Wuhan lab leak theoryhttps://www.theguardian.com/news/audio/2021/jun/03/the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-podcast The Times, Stories of our TimesWhy the Wuhan lab theory is being taken seriously https://www.thetimes.co.uk/podcasts/stories-of-our-times The Spectator, Americano Will we ever know where Covid came from?https://www.spectator.co.uk/podcast/will-we-ever-know-where-covid-came-from- The Daily – The Unlikely Pioneer Behind mRNA Vaccines Dr. Katalin Kariko has played a crucial role in bringing coronavirus vaccines to millions. She had to overcome years of doubt and disinterest to do so.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/10/podcasts/the-daily/mrna-vaccines-katalin-kariko.html The Joe Rogan Experience - #1638 - Dr. Shanna SwanDr. Shanna Swan is an environmental epidemiologist whose work examines the impact of chemical exposure on reproductive health and child development. Her book, "Count Down", is available now.https://open.spotify.com/episode/6pLW2tMx4Kw5qaeAcxj0Lj  Cautionary Tales ( a Pushkin production) - The curse of knowledge meets the valley of death. The Charge of the Lightbrigade https://timharford.com/articles/cautionarytales/How assuming others understand exactly what we are thinking gets people killed.Starring Helena Bonham Carter as Florence Nightingale.  -----As always, THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!  Please don't forget to LIKE us (or even LOVE us if you dare) and don't forget to follow us on Twitter: @podtrawlers  Podtrawlers is created and hosted by Victoria Crofton-Wadham and Veronika Hurbis.  Artwork and editing are by Veronika Hurbis.  Special thanks to Paul Pod for perfecting our logo.  And special thanks as always to #AnnaMeredith and this week to #Purcell and the inimitable #KlausNomi - bits of their brilliant tracks feature in this podcast episode.   #motherteresa#thechargeofthelightbrigade#originsofcovid#timharford#shannaswan#joerogan#klausnomi#cautionarytales#bestpodcasts#KatalinKariko#thedaily#youvegottolistentothispodcast

輝瑞疫苗與莫德納疫苗使用的mRNA疫苗技術，這是有別於其他疫苗的技術，其中一位幕後的大功臣，是一位來自匈牙利的移民，Dr. Katalin Kariko。她來自共產國家，到了美國，即便在一流的大學裡也未受到重視，但由於她長期研究不被人重視mRNA的技術，就在去年新冠疫情爆發後被利用在製造疫苗上，也造福了全世界的人。到底Dr. Katalin Kariko是誰？敬請就跟著 #aja #Zeno 的在地腳步一起來討論吧！ 親愛的聽眾們，你們的支持是我們繼續製作播客最大的動力，歡迎透過Anchor平台小額贊助我們，請我們喝瓶牛奶好讓我們潤潤嗓子補充營養喔！https://anchor.fm/zeno-podcast/support #KatalinKariko #mRNA #疫苗 #Vaccine #PfizerandBioNTech #輝瑞疫苗 #輝瑞疫苗很安全 #莫德納 #Moderna #EmergencyUseAuthorization #EUA #緊急授權 #美國疫苗都有經過第三期試驗 #有效性試驗 #PhaseIIIClinicalTrials #爭取疫苗 #FightforVaccination #美國 #賓州 #費城#社會文化 #英文學習 #中文學習 --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/zeno-podcast/support

When she was at graduate school in the 1970s, Dr. Katalin Kariko learned about something that would become a career-defining obsession: mRNA.She believed in the potential of the molecule, but for decades ran up against institutional roadblocks. Then, the coronavirus hit and her obsession would help shield millions from a once-in-a-century pandemic. Today, a conversation with Dr. Kariko about her journey. Guest: Gina Kolata, a reporter covering science and medicine for The New York Times. Sign up here to get The Daily in your inbox each morning. And for an exclusive look at how the biggest stories on our show come together, subscribe to our newsletter. Background reading: Collaborating with devoted colleagues, Dr. Kariko laid the groundwork for the mRNA vaccines turning the tide of the pandemic.For more information on today's episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

Discussion sur le rapport Laurent à propos de la réforme de la Direction de la protection de la jeunesse (DPJ) avec Nancy Audet et Jade Bourdages; duo international sur la censure pratiquée par les plateformes d’écoute en continu; entrevue avec la comédienne Cynthia Wu-Maheux pour la pièce Le rêveur dans son bain; et trio santé sur Katalin Kariko, la chercheuse qui a développé le vaccin contre la COVID-19, sur les fortuitomes et sur la désinformation en santé.

La scénariste et comédienne Gabrielle Côté se penche sur les efforts scientifiques de Katalin Kariko, véritable pionnière dans l'industrie pharmaceutique, elle développe notamment le vaccin Pfizer contre la COVID-19; On discute de la pièce Singulières avec Isabelle Berrigan et Maxime Beauregard Martin.

Martian helipopter specs, Facebook hack lookup, broken laptop screen (methods to recover data), Windows boot sequence revealed, controlling Windows confirmations, iPhone to Android video call options, Profiles in IT (Katalin Kariko, mRNA vaccine pioneer), Observations from the Bunker (grit and resilience of Katalin Kariko), hackers selling home webcam videos, crypto mining carbon footprint (75% in China), and Google Deepmind attacking protein folding (remarkable progress). This show originally aired on Saturday, April 10, 2021, at 9:00 AM EST on WFED (1500 AM).